# FYI for custom pen selling



## Dalecamino (May 8, 2013)

I thought my recent experience with making a commissioned kitless FP pen would be of some value to other kitless FP makers, who may be asked to make a custom order FP. I made a pen featuring school colors and logo decals. The blanks had to have swirl affect, cap had to be postable, cap had to be mounted with less than 2 turns. Customer says not worry about sending a converter, as he would use a cartridge. 

I had Jonathon Brooks (brooks803) make the blanks, which in my opinion were very nice. Made the pen as close to the requirements as I could get it, and sent it off. The response I got was that, the pen is too light weight for the price, the feed wouldn't puncture the cartridge, the cap wouldn't post and, the nib was scratchy. Colors were off as well. He was kind enough to send it back to me. 

This was a very disappointing experience for me, and I am not sure I would even WANT to make another commissioned pen again. It's kind of taken the confidence level to an all time low. Not sure what I could have done differently, except find out if the feed would pierce a cartridge. Anyway, just a FWIW.


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## SerenityWoodWorks (May 8, 2013)

Sorry that happened to you Chuck, but in any business we will always run into "that" customer. A few thing things that might help. Anytime I do any special order pen, whether its kitless or not, Always test write with the pen, I have a warranty sheet stating what is covered and what is not, and I always sign the sheet and under my signature I write "signed with YOUR pen" In this test write, you will find how it inks up, how it writes (does the nib need adjusting) and the overall feel. as far as the weight goes, now you know how much one of your kitless pens weigh, make sure the customer knows, and if they want it heavier, then you can use filler on the inside to add weight.
You make awesome pens do not let this disappoint you and second guess yourself. Chalk it up to "one of those guys"


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## edicehouse (May 8, 2013)

Chuck there is one thing to remember.  The 10-80-10 rule.  10% of the people would like anything they felt you made with them in mind no matter what.  It could be the worse pen you have ever made but they love it.  80% are the inbetween the two extremes.  The last 10% would not be satisfied if God himself (not getting into religous argument) came down and made it himself.  

I made a lot of different football team colored pens.  And all but one person loved thiers.  I made about 3 for that one person and each one was not right in some way or another, and I finally just stated I guess I can not get what you want.  The three he rejected were quickly sold anyways.


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## Sawdust46 (May 8, 2013)

Don't get down on yourself or your work.  I think this is a case of the wrong market (I know this has been addressed in many threads before.)  My most rewarding sale has been the sale when the buyer didn't even ask how much.  In one case he just said I want that pen.  When I told him $300, he said that was a good price since the same pens were $600-$700 at the pen show!
My point is my buyer appreciated the pen and the money was not a big issue.  In your case I think the guy probably liked the pen but the dollars were a bigger issue after he thought about it and he was just trying to justify his decision.
I have seen some of the pens you have posted and there is no issue with the quality of your pens.  Maybe you could find a more suitable market.
Good Luck!

ZIP IT!


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## mikespenturningz (May 8, 2013)

Don't let something like that get you down Chuck. You absolutely cannot please all the people all the time. I am sure you have many that have loved your work, focus on them and let this one go!


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## edicehouse (May 8, 2013)

It's like Kyle Busch, not everyone appreciates how great of a drive her is!


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## ed4copies (May 8, 2013)

Hey Chuck!!

Some years ago I had a similar experience.  Made a custom pen (circuit board, before they were popular), bought the black board ($400), as well as a nice nib (100) and made a baron (25ish).  Sold the pen around $400 (thought he was a friend, so I only wanted to break even--he was VERY influential in the pen world, so he would "sing my praises" across the spectrum of pen buyers).

He got the pen and commented that the nib was terrible, the front section cross threaded when he attempted to reinsert after filling with ink.  There were a couple other comments that I don't remember.  I was sincerely disappointed and gave him a full refund.  That was also the LAST custom pen I made using the baron.

What could I have done differently??  NOW I realize I should have inked the pen.  That would have exposed these issues (Although I did screw in the nib, so I believe his assertion that it was not threaded correctly came as a result of his frustration with the "overall impression" he had).

When we sell pens for over $100, do we have an obligation to "tune" them?  Probably!
Will this avoid all "returns"?  Probably NOT. (Some people's expectations cannot be met).

Sorry about YOUR disappointment---but, try to learn from it.  High prices require more attention to detail.  The customer is always buying a "writing experience"---make sure you are selling the best "writing experience" you are capable of delivering!

FWIW,
Ed


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## BradG (May 8, 2013)

Definately need to take that with a pinch of salt my friend. Not sure if you know about our family business?  We manufacture telephone equipment. I designed the circuit the hardware the software the adverts I run tech support as well as sales before and after queries. My son builds the hardware now which is a relief in a bid to earn a wage.
You can imagine the feelings which are stirred when someone is slating the product directly to me... but thats just business. For whatever the amount of good transactions there will always be some very bad ones... and you had a lucky escape... it was returned! I like no doubt others here could tell you some right horror stories lol


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## Dalecamino (May 8, 2013)

Thank you guys for the insight and encouragement. All good input. Helps to do a better job in making another one. I apologize for not mentioning in my original post, the customer was a pen collector. NOT saying anything against pen collectors. On the contrary, they DO know their pens and, what should be required in a pen. IF I make another one, it will be right BEFORE I mail it.


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## stonepecker (May 8, 2013)

Chuck,
You did the job as ordered.  I am sure that you believed it was alright when you mailed it.  You are not responsible for his opinion.  Nobody can say that we send out anything we would not approve for ourselves.
So who's fault?  Nobody.  You did the work and he expected more.  Not your problem.
There will always be someone that will find fault and want to blame someone.  Let it be like rain on a ducks back.........let it roll and forget it.  Move on......NEXT

Enjoy the hobby and forget the problems.  Be Happy.


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## mikespenturningz (May 8, 2013)

Any pen collector should be able to adjust and smooth a nib. Sorry that is part of using a fountain pen. I used to put ink to my fountain pens before I ship them but the first 2 said they wished I had not. I have never put ink to one since. I do however stand by to help with the adjustment if needed. I have had to help only two people and all I did was to point them to specific youtube videos and they did the rest. I have only ever had one pen returned to me and that was from a lady who said it was too heavy for her. I told her that I thought she was right it was a heavy pen and cheerfully gave her a refund. She gave me excellent feedback too. I don't know I think the more we can do to make our customers happy the better our business will be. I have been blessed with some really nice customers and I try to give them all the love and respect I possibly can.


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## SteveJ (May 8, 2013)

Hey Chuck, how about a picture of the offending pen so we can all tell you that it is the worst pen we've ever seen....

Seriously, I wish I could make a pen like the ones you have shown.  Keep up the good work and don't take it to hard.

Zipit


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## EBorraga (May 8, 2013)

I had a customer about 8 months ago that wanted an 800 horsepower small block chevy for a figure 8 car. We talked in depth about the cost and time involved. About 3 weeks later it was finished and dyno'd at 834 hp and 650 torque. When he came to pick it up, he told me he could get the same engine for about $4,000 cheaper. My response was, Go buy that P.O.S then, this one is staying here. It's now in the open wheel I race. You can never please them all.

And btw, the color was spot on for the school colors


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## Brooks803 (May 8, 2013)

That's really unfortunate Chuck. I thought the pen was spectacular. I'm curious as to what type of pens he collects if he says the weight doesn't equal $. Yours even had the metal cap finial. Atleast you got the pen back and can possibly resell it.

Don't let this one instance haunt you. Your work is more than worth it!


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## Chatham PenWorks (May 8, 2013)

Brooks803 said:


> That's really unfortunate Chuck. I thought the pen was spectacular. I'm curious as to what type of pens he collects if he says the weight doesn't equal $. Yours even had the metal cap finial. Atleast you got the pen back and can possibly resell it.
> 
> Don't let this one instance haunt you. Your work is more than worth it!



That's what really stuck with me. Too light for the money? And you say he's a collector? I'm curious if his collection is all component pens, with lots of metal.?.? Just trying to make sense of that statement.


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## Dalecamino (May 8, 2013)

OK, I ASSUMED he is a collector when he asked if I could make a roll around chest that would store 500 pens. The funny thing is, he didn't even offer a dollar for it. He has seen photos of my pens....so I'm guessing he just wanted a closer look. MAYBE entertaining purchasing it if he liked it well enough. 

I tried to make this pen available to any other Ohio State fan, but didn't get any responses to my thread. Hate to just trash it, considering the time, work and $40.00 invested. If anybody wants the thing, let me know.

Again, thanks for the comments and, advice


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## Tom T (May 8, 2013)

Chuck,
Do not be bummed out on this.  Your pens are great!
Our 16th President had something to say about pleasing all of the people.  
He could not do it either.


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## Tom T (May 8, 2013)

Just saw the picture.  That is a fine grade "A" pen.  Best in class.


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## Dalecamino (May 8, 2013)

Tom T said:


> Just saw the picture.  That is a fine grade "A" pen.  Best in class.


Thanks Tom. I still make pens :biggrin: Been at it too long to quit. Just need to make them better. Guess I just needed a wake up :biggrin:


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## Tom T (May 8, 2013)

Keep sharing with us.  We like it and need it.


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## Dalecamino (May 8, 2013)

Tom T said:


> Keep sharing with us.  We like it and need it.


Will do! Thanks


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## BigShed (May 9, 2013)

Mate, we all have (or will) met the "customer from hell".

Just looked at the pen you made and I reckon it is a great effort. For obvious reasons wink I can't comment on the accuracy of the colours, but the rest of the pen is of your usual high quality.

Some of the things he mentioned, the nib and the piercing of the cartridge, could be correct and as some people pointed out, could have been detected before shipment (if indeed those problems did exist).

I usually test any pen I send out by dipping it, but I must admit I have never tested whether the feed pierces a cartridge.

My policy with all custom orders, kitless or kit pens, is to ask the client for payment up front. That way they have money in the game and are less likely to walk away, they also show that they are serious. The payment I request is usually at least 50% of the price quoted but in some  cases I ask for 100%.

I have only ever had one customer refuse and that guy went to another penmaker (whom I know) and turned out to be one of those very hard to please customers. That penmaker refused to make any more pens for him.

Mate, don't let one bad experience make you doubt yourself, learn from it both business wise and technique wise. Ask yourself what you could have done to avoid this and do those things on the next one.

I for one will now test every fountain pen to see whether it pierces a cartridge, but will hold the cartridge upside down so that the ink won't go in to the feed.

Chin up, you're a great penmaker, on to the next custom order.:highfive:


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## mikespenturningz (May 9, 2013)

Wow that pen is just beautiful Chuck. Keep on churning them out you got plenty of fans here.


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## mredburn (May 9, 2013)

No you just needed to get a non refundable deposit that covered  your expenses for the blanks and the kit.  I know that you did what most of us will do and thats refund his money wish him the best and move on.  He obviously was just looking for any excuse to cancel the deal.


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## BSea (May 9, 2013)

I agree with Mike.  I think this is just a case of buyers remorse.  And to save face, he "Invented" some reasons to send the pen back.  Nothing at all wrong with that pen.


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## SteveJ (May 9, 2013)

Wow, wish I has gone to THE Ohio State just for that pen... Very nice looking pen.


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## Twissy (May 9, 2013)

Sh1t happens I suppose Chuck. I agree with the others that I think he  just wanted out....or SWMBO wanted him out! If he were a serious pen  collector I would have expected him to prefer a lighter pen. I certainly  wouldn't consider making anything else for him.
It shouldn't put you off doing more. That's one out of how many?
I think it does us good to have a kicking once in a while!
Could you remove the decal and open it up to a wider audience for sale?


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## John Den (May 9, 2013)

I love looking at your pens!
Regards
John


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## bobs pens 1 (May 9, 2013)

Chuck made me a Florida Gators Pen for a fishing friend of mine and my friend was so happy with his gift he cried in front of about 20 people at a meeting we attended. He said it was the most beautiful pen he ever saw.

To me its the best sports college pen I have ever seen  or posted on this forum.

Chuck you are a master craftsman and every buddy knows it. Don't let this get you down. Many of us wish we could turn pens of your quality. That is my goal to turn like you someday.    I am glad you are my friend. 

bob


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## Wood Butcher (May 9, 2013)

Chuck,
There have been a few times in all the years I have done woodworking that I had a gut feeling that I should turn and run and didn't.  Recently someone asked me to make a pen for them and started off with a few requirements and questions.  I answered the questions and agreed to the requirements.  After several emails and additional questions and requirements I started to get that funny feeling this was quick sand.  After one more email question I said I wasn't interested in doing this and ended that process..  I'm just saying, when the premonition says "this ain't gonna end well" turn and run.  He was probably a really nice guy, it just didn't feel right and experience tells me don't do it.  It will happen to all of us, don't give up or judge future successes based on one event that went sour.
WB


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## Dalecamino (May 9, 2013)

BigShed said:


> Mate, we all have (or will) met the "customer from hell".
> 
> Just looked at the pen you made and I reckon it is a great effort. For obvious reasons wink I can't comment on the accuracy of the colours, but the rest of the pen is of your usual high quality.
> 
> ...


Thanks Fred. Always appreciate your input on matters. 



mikespenturningz said:


> Wow that pen is just beautiful Chuck. Keep on churning them out you got plenty of fans here.


Thanks Mike. I'll keep making my pens. Compliments appreciated.



mredburn said:


> No you just needed to get a non refundable deposit that covered  your expenses for the blanks and the kit.  I know that you did what most of us will do and thats refund his money wish him the best and move on.  He obviously was just looking for any excuse to cancel the deal.


Thanks Mike. You're right.:biggrin:



BSea said:


> I agree with Mike.  I think this is just a case of buyers remorse.  And to save face, he "Invented" some reasons to send the pen back.  Nothing at all wrong with that pen.


Thanks, it very well could be.



SMJ1957 said:


> Wow, wish I has gone to THE Ohio State just for that pen... Very nice looking pen.


LOL, thanks for that.



Twissy said:


> Sh1t happens I suppose Chuck. I agree with the others that I think he  just wanted out....or SWMBO wanted him out! If he were a serious pen  collector I would have expected him to prefer a lighter pen. I certainly  wouldn't consider making anything else for him.
> It shouldn't put you off doing more. That's one out of how many?
> I think it does us good to have a kicking once in a while!
> Could you remove the decal and open it up to a wider audience for sale?


Thank you. Yes, I'm done with this person for sure. 



John Den said:


> I love looking at your pens!
> Regards
> John


Thank you John! There will be more.



bobs pens 1 said:


> Chuck made me a Florida Gators Pen for a fishing friend of mine and my friend was so happy with his gift he cried in front of about 20 people at a meeting we attended. He said it was the most beautiful pen he ever saw.
> 
> To me its the best sports college pen I have ever seen  or posted on this forum.
> 
> ...


Thank you Bob. I'm glad you and your friend like the gator pen. I appreciate your comments.



Wood Butcher said:


> Chuck,
> There have been a few times in all the years I have done woodworking that I had a gut feeling that I should turn and run and didn't.  Recently someone asked me to make a pen for them and started off with a few requirements and questions.  I answered the questions and agreed to the requirements.  After several emails and additional questions and requirements I started to get that funny feeling this was quick sand.  After one more email question I said I wasn't interested in doing this and ended that process..  I'm just saying, when the premonition says "this ain't gonna end well" turn and run.  He was probably a really nice guy, it just didn't feel right and experience tells me don't do it.  It will happen to all of us, don't give up or judge future successes based on one event that went sour.
> WB


Thanks for your input as well Bill. It's funny, I felt the quick sand and backed out once, then considered that his requirements were not actually unattainable and got the pen finished after all. Should have stayed on dry land :redface:

Thanks to everyone for all your comments, and words of support and encouragement. I am pleased to report, this pen has a new home now. Thanks to some good friends here. You guys are great.:wink:


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## cnirenberg (May 10, 2013)

Chuck,
I just saw this.  Too bad too, what a great looking pen.  People ask me, "why don't you sell pens" all the time.  The last time I did they bought a kitless type and a day later panned it so bad that I said something I shouldn't have.  They write with a bic click now (probably very brown and smelly, if they took my advice on where to stick it).  I'll make the standard kit, but will need some up front $ deposit first.  Sorry it happened to you.


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## Dalecamino (May 10, 2013)

cnirenberg said:


> Chuck,
> I just saw this.  Too bad too, what a great looking pen.  People ask me, "why don't you sell pens" all the time.  The last time I did they bought a kitless type and a day later panned it so bad that I said something I shouldn't have.  They write with a bic click now (probably very brown and smelly, if they took my advice on where to stick it).  I'll make the standard kit, but will need some up front $ deposit first.  Sorry it happened to you.


Thanks Chris. Sorry this happened to you too.


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## brownell10 (Jul 14, 2013)

Nice pen! I'm an auto tech, professionally, customers are customers (except Caddy and Vette owners- WORSE). 'Round these parts, 2 or 3 of 5 customers are squeaky wheels or pot-stirrers and their dollar is two of ours. Or more.


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## Dalecamino (Jul 14, 2013)

brownell10 said:


> Nice pen! I'm an auto tech, professionally, customers are customers (except Caddy and Vette owners- WORSE). 'Round these parts, 2 or 3 of 5 customers are squeaky wheels or pot-stirrers and their dollar is two of ours. Or more.


Thanks. This one was special, without a doubt.


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## ashaw (Jul 14, 2013)

Chuck
That is a beautiful pen.  You will find a buyer do not trash it.  Customers will be customers do not get down on yourself and do not give up.  We all have been down that road before.  

Alan


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## Dalecamino (Jul 15, 2013)

ashaw said:


> Chuck
> That is a beautiful pen.  You will find a buyer do not trash it.  Customers will be customers do not get down on yourself and do not give up.  We all have been down that road before.
> 
> Alan


Thank you Alan. So I've heard, I'm not the only one that's had this problem. This pen went to someone more appreciative, and less critical. Seems to be quite pleased to have it. BTW, I'm still making pens :biggrin:


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