# Cheap Chinese Laser Cutters



## Fibonacci (Mar 11, 2012)

The question often comes up regarding the quality of the cheap Chinese laser cutters.  I seem to be the only proponent of them, but given where the one I use is located, I have not been able to provide any real documentation on them.

I had some after hours access this week and thought I would make a couple of quick things to demonstrate their capabilities.

These were made on a $3000 machine with a 13"x24" table.  This machine has been in use for about 2 years.  The only maintenance that has been done on it has been 3 alignments on the mirrors, each after moving the system.

The autobots are done on paper, a piece of mirror, and a piece of 1/8" extruded acrylic.  The space invader is a piece on 1/4" extruded acrylic.  All of these were done in a single pass.

As far as speed, the autobot takes about 70 seconds to engrave and cut.  The space invader takes about 20 seconds.

The software is less user friendly than a quality American system (Epilog, Universal, etc.), but it is also an order of magnitude cheaper.


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## foamcapt40 (Mar 11, 2012)

I too have wondered about these laser cutters. I worry about service after the sale and the quality of the laser tubes. I would like to try to engrave ID markings on fire equipment and the unit would have to have a rotary table. And I wonder if the saying is true "you get what you pay for". Just some random thoughts ont the matter.​


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## Fibonacci (Mar 11, 2012)

The hardware is of impressively high quality.  The electronics are good as well.

The mirror mounts are poorly designed, but 3 pen springs and 5 minutes fixes that.  The software is weird and stupid, but fully functional.

They don't sell a rotary mount for these, but the system is just a set of stepper motors, so it would be fairly easy to swap one axis for a rotary one if you were mechanically inclined.

I did pay the extra fee to get it from a US distributor that I could call and hassle if necessary, but it still came in under $3k and I have not had any issues at all.  I keep expecting to have to overhaul it, but it just keeps on chugging.

I cut aluminized mylar, paracloth, various woods, obviously acrylic and paper.  The thickest thing I have cut in a single pass is 3/8" oak.


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## Russianwolf (Mar 12, 2012)

I've been looking at one of these 4 AXIS CNC ROUTER ENGRAVER MILLING/DRILLIN, but have been hesitant for the same reasons. I know I can get a similar tiag, or sherline, but the cost is 3-4 times as much and I don;t know that it'll do what I want.


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## Steve Busey (Apr 5, 2012)

Fibonacci said:


> These were made on a $3000 machine with a 13"x24" table.  This machine has been in use for about 2 years.  The only maintenance that has been done on it has been 3 alignments on the mirrors, each after moving the system.



Can I ask what company you got this from?


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## Turned Around (Apr 5, 2012)

Russianwolf said:


> I've been looking at one of these 4 AXIS CNC ROUTER ENGRAVER MILLING/DRILLIN, but have been hesitant for the same reasons. I know I can get a similar tiag, or sherline, but the cost is 3-4 times as much and I don;t know that it'll do what I want.


 
I would advise against this one. I got the model below it (the one without the rotary attachment), same company, and that thing is horrible. The horizontal axis jolts around, the software is a huge pain, took me a while to get it set up because it's connected through a parallel port and not USB. It's just a huge pain and a big regret. Not to mention it took almost 2 months to get to me since it came from Hong Kong and had to go through customs.

If I could afford it, I would pay you not to take it.


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## Monty (Apr 5, 2012)

Maybe Harbor Freight will start carrying these in the future. :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:


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## tbird1957 (Apr 5, 2012)

Can't say anything about the Chinese Lasers, but . . . . .
I have a Epilog that I purchased in 2002. It runs about 4 1/2 to 5 hours a day 5 days a week. I'm on my third tube. I replace all the optics once. Replace 1 stepper motor. Replace the coder strip once. Replace the auto focus once. If this sounds like a lot, it's not. My machine runs hard. If something goes wrong I have the new part by 10 the next morning. Support is the best I have on any equipment. They call you back in a reasonable time. They understand what I'm talking about. The parts are always correct and it fixes my problem. I cannot afford to have a machine down. I am very pleased and have plans on replacing this machine later this year. Oh, bye the WAY. . .   MADE IN THE USA. Here's a link if your interested.  I have no connection to Epilog, I am only a user.
Epilog Laser Engraver - Engraving Laser Cutting Marking Machines Systems and Equipment FiberMark Laser


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## RussFromNH (Apr 5, 2012)

I have been trying to gather all of my parts together to make my own mini unit to etch the pens.
Pocket laser engraver.
then the CNC I am looking to build is the DIYLILCNC, I am waiting for v2 plans to be done.


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## wolftat (Apr 5, 2012)

The chinese lasers are cheap, they are also difficult to understand and if you need support, you had better be able to speak chinese. My neighbor has one and when we run his against my Epilog, there is no comparison. His laser has more down time and is slower than mine as well. You get what you pay for. I looked at every type of laser I could before I bought mine and after hours of research I went with the Epilog and have not regretted it in over a year now. The one small issue I had with my laser (possibly user error) was repaired by next day air and the parts are available for whatever I may need. I see a lot of people buying the chinese lasers ordering them with extra tubes, motors, lenses, and other parts that are going to be impossible to find if they don't buy them now. My neighbor also has had to replace his tube after a year of use. The air cooled metal tubes last about 10 times longer than the water cooled glass tubes also.

 Remember, there is also a difference in using someone elses laser and owning, maintaining, and cleaning your own machine. My machines are moved around a lot also and the auto alignment feature on the Epilog is great to have if I ever need it. If you look around, you may be able to find a deal on a used machine too, I recently found an Epilog mini 25 watt machine for $3000 with very few hours on it, it is now my mobile machine.


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## bitshird (Apr 5, 2012)

Russianwolf said:


> I've been looking at one of these 4 AXIS CNC ROUTER ENGRAVER MILLING/DRILLIN, but have been hesitant for the same reasons. I know I can get a similar tiag, or sherline, but the cost is 3-4 times as much and I don;t know that it'll do what I want.



Mike, A Taig with a Sherline Rotary and a Gecko 4 axis control won't cost any where near 4 times the 1500.00 they are looking for, on that unit. Believe me a Taig 2019  4 axis set up from Deep Groove on feeBay will do a lot more than you think and a lot better price and far superior quality. 
Sherline's are also decent, just not as durable as a Taig. Problem is when you start getting .010 and .015 endmills, which will shatter if you look at them wrong do get costly, I used to use a lot of .015 and .020 square and ball endmills for doing 3D work with my Taig. Now it or quick go to mill in the shop, --- Cutting Stainless steel with a !/4 inch endmill!! The only other small mill I'd consider would be the Tormach but then you are getting into the 7,000.00 to 9,000.00 range, which is still a lot les expensive than the mill Jeff Powell bought, 
Check this link, Cnc mill
I have no connection with this guy, I just bought a controller from him about 6 years ago, his new ones are better, look around for the rotary axis and tables.


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## Sylvanite (Apr 5, 2012)

If your business depends on 95% uptime, then by all means, invest in a unit that has local support.  On the other hand, if you are looking for a lower cost model, to start out and learn on, then you might want to look at a chinese model.  Some made in China engravers do have US sales and support.  I have a Rabbit Laser Engraver that I ordered from China.  Had I insisted on a US-made machine, I wouldn't have gotten one at all.  They started at three times the price which was a deal-breaker for me.  I bought a spare tube, and extra lens and mirrors at the same time because there was no US supplier back then.  Subesequently, a US (Ohio) based retailer has opened and some level of service is available.  I had them come tune-up my engraver, fix a few problems, and teach me how to use it better.  Since then, I've bought 2 additional rotary fixtures and a new tube from them.  Other parts, such as lenses and mirrors, are available from other sources.  I could upgrade to an air-cooled laser (with a much longer working life), but I hear that chinese made units will be coming soon and expect a big price drop when that happens.

An Epilog would be very nice, and there may be one in my future, but that doesn't mean the Rabbit laser hasn't served me well.  Think of it this way.  I just bought a very nice Powermatic lathe.  It's superior to my Delta in just about every respect.  I have, however, made pens to the limit of my ability on the Delta for years.

Regards,
Eric


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## Jgrden (Apr 5, 2012)

foamcapt40 said:


> I too have wondered about these laser cutters. I worry about service after the sale and the quality of the laser tubes. I would like to try to engrave ID markings on fire equipment and the unit would have to have a rotary table. And I wonder if the saying is true "you get what you pay for". Just some random thoughts ont the matter.​



I feel the same way. I would love to have one of those but worry about the replacement parts and the ability of reading their manual


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## Russianwolf (Apr 5, 2012)

bitshird said:


> Russianwolf said:
> 
> 
> > I've been looking at one of these 4 AXIS CNC ROUTER ENGRAVER MILLING/DRILLIN, but have been hesitant for the same reasons. I know I can get a similar tiag, or sherline, but the cost is 3-4 times as much and I don;t know that it'll do what I want.
> ...



Thanks Ken, I'm out of the market now as I'm not sure I can make any of them do what I'm wanting in the time frame I need. I'm going to be making my prototypes and working with a local CNC shop for now. Maybe another year or two down the road, I can play with this idea again.


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## Bigj51 (Apr 5, 2012)

I have 2 lasers both made by Universal Laser Systems in Arizona. These machines are expensive yes, but the engraving quality and customer support is second to none. I run them both 5-6 days a week and am looking to add a third laser to my business this year. In the grand scheme of things the $20,000 I spent on my last laser system is quite cheap compared to the Laser System that I would like to have. Check out the systems made by Kern. The Fiber Laser I am looking at would set me back about $200,000.


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## Jgrden (Apr 7, 2012)

Bigj51 said:


> I have 2 lasers both made by Universal Laser Systems in Arizona. These machines are expensive yes, but the engraving quality and customer support is second to none. I run them both 5-6 days a week and am looking to add a third laser to my business this year. In the grand scheme of things the $20,000 I spent on my last laser system is quite cheap compared to the Laser System that I would like to have. Check out the systems made by Kern. The Fiber Laser I am looking at would set me back about $200,000.



Chit man, you are big time. WE are small potatoes.


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## holmqer (Apr 8, 2012)

It all boils down to your intended use. If you are a production shop like some folks here, go with the US made systems with a good support network and software. If you just want to play around, the cheap systems are probably fine.


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## Bigj51 (Apr 8, 2012)

Check out the hobby laser made by Full Spectrum. Not a bad price and US based support and spare parts. I would feel better about ordering a "cheap" laser from them than mainland China!

40W CO2 Deluxe Hobby Laser - Products


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## Jgrden (Apr 10, 2012)

Bigj51 said:


> Check out the hobby laser made by Full Spectrum. Not a bad price and US based support and spare parts. I would feel better about ordering a "cheap" laser from them than mainland China!
> 
> 40W CO2 Deluxe Hobby Laser - Products



Hey, this is useful information. Thank you.


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## Richard Gibson (Apr 10, 2012)

Bigj51 said:


> Check out the hobby laser made by Full Spectrum. Not a bad price and US based support and spare parts. I would feel better about ordering a "cheap" laser from them than mainland China!
> 
> 40W CO2 Deluxe Hobby Laser - Products



Don't see the availability of a rotary attachment for this. I Would think that would be needed for doing pens.


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## Bigj51 (Apr 10, 2012)

Richard Gibson said:


> Bigj51 said:
> 
> 
> > Check out the hobby laser made by Full Spectrum. Not a bad price and US based support and spare parts. I would feel better about ordering a "cheap" laser from them than mainland China!
> ...


 

Their larger machines have a rotary attachment. You really only need that if you are trying to wrap text/logos completely around the pen. I don't use a rotary attachment for any of my pen engraving.


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## hanau (Apr 11, 2012)

Bigj51 said:


> Richard Gibson said:
> 
> 
> > Bigj51 said:
> ...



If you don't mind how do you do them with out a rotary attachment?
I am also looking for a hobby laser.

Thanks


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## Turned Around (Apr 11, 2012)

those are nice. and a little more in my price range.


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## PenMan1 (Apr 11, 2012)

I have a friend (who shall remain nameless) that makes many laser cut pen barrels on a Chinese laser.

The quality seems BETTER than the Epilog. Parts are plentiful, and cheap to obtain, just takes them a week longer to get to the U.S.

There is some (NOT much) customer support on YouTube.

It depends on what you need. If you need customer support the JCut ( China machine that looks just like the Epilog) is likely not the machine for you. If the laser doesn't get used daily, a $4,000 machine with more capability and more power than the $16, 000 machine is a real "head scratcher".


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## PenMan1 (Apr 11, 2012)

Fibonacci said:


> The hardware is of impressively high quality. The electronics are good as well.
> 
> The mirror mounts are poorly designed, but 3 pen springs and 5 minutes fixes that. The software is weird and stupid, but fully functional.
> 
> ...


 

Additionally, the Chinese machines that I have seen use have seamless integration with the software that the American made machine (Epilog's "Zing" series, other Epilogs MAY be made in China and assembled in the U.S.) and use those software programs the same way as the Epilog Zing or Rabbit Series.


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## Steve Busey (Apr 11, 2012)

PenMan1 said:


> I have a friend (who shall remain nameless) that makes many laser cut pen barrels on a Chinese laser.



If they are here on the forum, it would be great if they would pitch in to the discussion!


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## Turned Around (Apr 12, 2012)

I have nothing to say about the Chinese made laser engravers, only the one specific rotary engraver I bought, and it was crap. I've been looking on line a LOT lately, basically since I spend about $500 in engraving fees, for my own.


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