# Drilling ?



## Snorton20 (Sep 4, 2008)

What are the advantages of drilling on a lathe vs. a drill press? and visa versa.  Thanks for the response.


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## wdcav1952 (Sep 4, 2008)

Snort, around here we feel a bit more friendly if you are willing to share your name with us.

IMHO, it depends on which machine with which you are more comfortable.  Some use the lathe for drilling that exceeds the quill travel of their drill press.  Many consider the lathe to be more accurate with less deflection of the drill.  Since I got my PHC vise, I use the drill press almost exclusively.


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## rherrell (Sep 4, 2008)

When I want ABSOLUTE accuracy I use my lathe. However, to accomplish this I use a Beall chuck which means that first I need to turn the piece to round. All this takes ALOT of time. I also use the lathe if I have to drill a hole deeper than the quill travel on my DP.(31/2") This also requires turning the piece to round and using the collet chuck. More time. 99% of all my drilling is done on my DP which is fast and plenty accurate for most things. Set-up is the key so get yourself a good vise and take the time to dial it in.
To answer your question...
The advantage of drilling on the lathe is accuracy and the advantage of drilling on the DP is speed.


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## Snorton20 (Sep 4, 2008)

Sorry about the name thing Cav. My name is Joe, I changed my 
Sig to reflect that.  So, using the lathe is an excellent option when doing segmented work then? and Drill press would be just for run of the mill pen making? Also, I have the pen vise from woodcraft http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyId=4365 any reviews on this would be great.  I might of made a mistake by opting to purchase this one instead of their deluxe model they offer to save a few bucks. Also, I use a Delta bench top model I bought a few years back for scroll saw work.  Any input on my setup would be great.  TY


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## markgum (Sep 4, 2008)

Joe,
  I have the same woodcraft model.  I'm happy with it.  I use my Ridgid Drill press I got from HD.  I have some odd shaped blanks and will probably drill them on the lathe just because the shape of the blank is not the typical square one.  But,,, I'm still testing things out.


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## MobilMan (Sep 4, 2008)

Joe, there's nothing wrong with that vice.  Just take time & set it up right & it can be dead on accurate.  Only one thing about drilling on the lathe is you can get a blow out when the bit goes thru the blank because it isn't backed up like it is on a press.  Just gotta be slow when it starts to exit the blank.  I had been using a wood screw clamp mounted to my press until I got a vice from HF.  Shoulda gotten it a long time ago.


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## Sylvanite (Sep 4, 2008)

For me, the drill press is a bit quicker to use, but the lathe gives me better concentricity.  So, when I just need a quick hole through stock, I typically use the drill press.  When I need a true, centered hole, I switch to the lathe.

Regards,
Eric


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## Daniel (Sep 4, 2008)

Ditto the accuracy vote. otherwise I use my drill press. some other reason I can think of to use a lathe rather than a drill press for drilling.
you don't have a drill press either because your shop does not have room for one or you have not bought one yet.
depth control (for drilling closed end pens) would seem to me to be easier on the lathe than on the drill press.
again this shows the lathe for control and accuracy, drill press for quick and easy.


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## wdcav1952 (Sep 4, 2008)

Joe, thanks for the name.  I consider the IAP my family and like to know to whom I am talking.  Lots of much better advice than mine has been given.  If I were you, I would see about getting on Paul Huffman's waiting list for his vise.  IMHO, it is far better than other commercially available vises.


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## thewishman (Sep 4, 2008)

I use only the lathe. First, because of space and money, later because of accuracy. When I started out, I borrowed a lathe from my woodturning club (free member benefit!) which included a chuck. When I bought my own rig, I was very comfortable with drilling on the lathe.


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## TellicoTurning (Sep 4, 2008)

I use a HF drill press most of the time, but have begun to drill on the lathe now that I have one with long enough quill travel to get all the way through a blank.  My little DP has a short quill travel and sometimes have to drill part way, then put a block under the blank to raise it so I can get the rest of the way.  I have a vice from PSI, but it's pretty much a piece of C..p so I use a home made jig to hold the blanks most of the time... or in years past have been known to hold the blank with my hand.  After I jammed my left thumb, I don't have the strength in my hand to do that any more.

I'll probably do most of my drilling on the lathe from now on.


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## leehljp (Sep 4, 2008)

I will add my 2 yen. There are different reasons for each person in using the lathe or DP. 

In the end, bottom line, most people will find it easier to have a very specific, accurate guaranteed entry and exit with point with a lathe. This kind of accuracy is not needed on the majority of blanks and pens made and shown on this forum. However, for many segmented pens, even 1/32 off center entrance or exit will take a potential $500 pen and make it a $50.00 pen. 

With the lathe spinning the blank, it is easy to spot if the center is off and make an adjustment; it is easier (for me) to see if the bit is going to hit the exact center much more so than on a DP. At this point, for me, it is not about the accuracy of a pen vise but the ability for me to more accurately determine precisely where the entrance and exit points are going to be.

*Where the water hits the wheel:* I can *visually* see, control and make finer adjustments for the "entrance point" on the lathe as the blank turns. I don't have the ability to control within 1/32 the entrance point on a DP drilled blank with close to 1/2 inch size bits. Even with a cross vise, It sure LOOKS to me like it is going to be centered, but the first little divot shows that it is out by 1/32 or so. The problem is that this first "divot", if out of center by 1/32 will influence the entrance from from then on. 

Saying this another way: On a lathe, you have two "givens" at the beginning - The entrance point and the exit point, and you know that they will be within .002 or so. All you have to do is add the blank. Properly centered and tightened into the chuck, the Exit point of the blank is guaranteed much more so than on a DP table of the average user. Now, the last part is to make adjustments for the entrance point. I can visually tell where the *entrance point* is going to be on the spinning blank far better than I can on a DP with a still blank and spinning bit.

This kind of precision is not always needed, but there are times it is. One other thing that I do is use patience. It takes me on average 30 minutes an hour to drill a two blank pen set on the lathe. The point is not how fast but how accurate and how well it can be drilled. Ensuring this step is primal. If Time is of the essence, this is not for you.

Below is a link to a pen where .01 inch centering from end to end was a necessity:

http://www.penturners.org/photos/images/940/1_Baron_PenStripes.jpg


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## holmqer (Sep 5, 2008)

There have been many good posts about accuracy vs speed so far, so I will bring up a different point. A few posters in the past have had problems with their tailstock threads after lots of drilling. This seems limited to some of the mini lathes.

Whether they would have had these problems anyway without drilling due to poor quality control of the tailstock manufacturing I have no idea. 

Since I have a DP and a decent self centering vise, I just use the DP. Once I start fooling around with segmented blanks I will probably switch to the lathe.


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## Blind_Squirrel (Sep 5, 2008)

Lee, 

How are you making adjustments to the blank on the lathe?  If it is off do you stop the lathe and reposition the blank?  Are you using a collet chuck to hold it with or a 4-jaw precision chuck?


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## VisExp (Sep 5, 2008)

I use my lathe and a PSI collet chuck for drilling my blanks, segmented or not.  Some have mentioned that it takes longer because you have to turn the blank round before drilling, but you would have to turn the blank round after gluing in the tube if you drilled the blank while square on the DP, so the time spent is a wash.

When turning the blank round I use a roughing gouge in my right hand and hold a 3/4" wrench on the blank with my left.  When the wrench slips over the blank it is round and the correct size for the collet chuck.

The advantage of drilling on the lathe is accuracy with segmented pens.  An advantage on non segmented pens is that you get an idea as to what the finished pen will look like as you turn it round.


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## Russianwolf (Sep 5, 2008)

I drill on the lathe and use a 4 jaw chuck. One thing that I do that Lee and others might not is I turn the blank round first. It does not take any extra time, as you are just doing what you would have to do later anyway. I mark the entrance and exit points on the blank with a center punch then put it between centers and round it at least 90% of the way (one little flat spot won't through it off. Then I put it in the chuck and spin it. If the point were the center is is dead on, I drill. If not the point will make a circle and I know that I need to move it a bit until it is. Once drilled, since the blank is round, I feel that I can better see what the finish pen will look like and decide where my cuts are going to be. 

I've had less than 5 blanks lost on the lathe, where as I lost about 20 on the DP. 

I generally set up to do pens in batches, so I save time as I do each step for the entire lot of pens. This weekend for example I'll be prepping blanks for about a dozen pens. Round, Drill, Cut, Glue, True, Trim. And I'll be turning them over the next week or so. For a Dozen, I'll likely put in 2-3 hours prepping the blanks, so 10-15 minutes per pen.

Edit: Rethinking myself. I round the blanks the first time in a self-centering chuck. Not between centers. I've tried between centers, but you get too much slipping since the surface area is so minimal. When I true the blanks after drilling and gluing, it's between centers.


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## GoodTurns (Sep 5, 2008)

I use a very similar method to Mike's(Russianwolf).  I used to do everything on the DP, blew up my fair share, probably due to excess pressure (oops).  I have only lost one blank drilling on the lathe.  I believe that the control of the tailstock handwheel is far superior to the DP, the travel speed is much more controlled.   The accuracy is greatly improved when using the lathe, more of a factor when doing segments or other detail work.  My prep time is similar also...about 10-15 mins to get ready for turning (cut, drill, tube, glue...).


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## leehljp (Sep 5, 2008)

Blind_Squirrel said:


> Lee,
> 
> How are you making adjustments to the blank on the lathe?  If it is off do you stop the lathe and reposition the blank?  Are you using a collet chuck to hold it with or a 4-jaw precision chuck?



I use a 4 jaw chuck (Grizzly). I Square my blanks precisely or make the eight sided to tolerance of at least .01 inch or better.

Here is how I square my blanks:
http://www.penturners.org/photos/images/940/1_Precision_Jig_1.jpg
I also have a jig for cutting the edges off of a square so that it is perfectly 8 sided. This is how I made the pen below:

http://www.penturners.org/photos/images/940/1_Baron_PenStripes.jpg


The grizzly is not the most accurate chuck, but by taking a little time (maybe 3 to 5 minutes) of fiddling with it, I can get a blank centered well enough. I turn and check each side with a gauge resting on the tool rest.

On delicate blanks such as the one pictured above, I before drilling I put rubber bands doubled, tripled and quadrupled (as tight as possible and place them all along the blank up to the chuck.


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## ed4copies (Sep 5, 2008)

While Hank is taking five minutes to get it right, I have drilled five blanks on the drill press. 

Are they dead straight???  Hell no!!!

If it is a 3/4" blank, with a 25/64 hole, you're going to turn off a lot of material, so who cares about straight???

When I have a custom blank (Eagleized), I drill on the lathe.  NOW being in the dead center IS critical.

So, each has it's place in my shop.  

If every pen you turn is destined to be a masterpiece, use the lathe.  If you turn "quick and affordable" the drill press will do. (usually)


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## ed4copies (Sep 5, 2008)

Oh, drilling and blowing up blanks CAN be avoided if you never drill  THROUGH.  Stop short of going through the blank and cut the end off with your band saw.

After ruining many blanks, I now do this with EVERY drilling.


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## IPD_Mrs (Sep 5, 2008)

wdcav1952 said:


> I consider the IAP my family and like to know to whom I am talking.



WOW, so should I call you Uncle William or Cousin Willy? 
I bet our good friend Skippy would love to see the later stick!

I promise not to call you for my next dental exam. :biggrin:


Mike


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## Daniel (Sep 5, 2008)

The most exact drilling I have had to do recently was drilling through the tips of 100 50cal. bullets I bought a collet chuck and headed straight for my metal lathe. I would not have attempted it on my drill press. my press has a visible amount of run out when it starts. I have tightened the quill twice and the movement keeps coming back. so i live with it. but dead on holes with my drill press are not posi


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## thewishman (Sep 5, 2008)

Drilling on the lathe needn't be time consuming. I use square blanks in a Nova Midi chuck (four jaws). I try to put the blank in as straight as possible and tighten the jaws most of the way. Then I pull up the tailstock with the bit and turn on the lathe. An off center blank will be very noticeable at 500 rpm. I turn off the lathe, tap the blank and test again. When the blank rotates in its on dimention (not wobble) I turn off the lathe and tighten the chuck, then start my drilling. It gets very easy after some practice - rivaling a drill press in speed, plus gravity helps clear the flutes.


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## ehickey (Sep 5, 2008)

I was drilling on the lathe before I had a decent way to hold the blank on the DP, but it was taking so long and building up so much heat that I now use the DP.  I haven't started segmenting yet, but when I do, I want to be accurate.  So my questions are this:
How do you prevent heat buildup?
What speed is the lathe set at for drilling?

I have a Delta Midi, so in my experience, I had to drill in about 2" or so, then unclamp the tailstock and pull the drill bit out.  Then I would back the quill back into the tailstock, push it into the hole in the blank, clamp it and begin feeding the quill again.  The bit would get so hot that I couldn't touch it for about 5 minutes.  BTW, the blank was turning at 500rpm.

I could increase the speed of the lathe to match the DP, but I'm afraid that it would just generate heat faster.


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## thewishman (Sep 5, 2008)

Eric, I do it the way describe except for the 2" backing out. I back out more much frequently. On the first pass, I'll drill until the chips stop flowing quickly, susequent passes are about 1/2" or so at a time.

The speed the you are advancing the bit plays a big part in the heat build-up. I crank faster when the chips fly and much slower when they don't.


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## Russianwolf (Sep 5, 2008)

Eric, you want to drill at the slowest speed your machine can go. It's not a race. Speed is one of the things that'll increase the temp.

On the lathe, my tailstock is nice and tight in the ways. I don't use the handwheel at all. Once the blank is spinning with the center dimple nice and still, I bring the tailstock up and apply light hand pressure to  start drilling and start watching the chips. If they stop flowing, back out all the way. Then go back in for a half inch or so if you don't get chips flowing again.

The only thing I really have to be aware of is in softer woods. Since my tailstock is moving, the bit can self-feed if I'm not careful.


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## ehickey (Sep 5, 2008)

That's interesting.  I would have never thought of just pushing the tailstock into the wood.  That might make it a little faster and help keep the heat down.

Thanks for you help Russianwolf and thewishman!


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## ed4copies (Sep 5, 2008)

Eric,

Remember, as you push the tailstock, you are introducing some vibration to the process.  No big deal on most stuff, but if you are CLOSE to the size of your blank (Not much material left), this CAN cause a BLOWUP!!

FWIW


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## ehickey (Sep 6, 2008)

Thanks for the advise, Ed.  That is definitely something I will keep in mind.


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## leehljp (Sep 6, 2008)

On the pen in the link that I posted earlier, (and seen here ) I would not dare drill by pushing the tail stock in. I did it by the handwheel and very little at a time. Lots of Ins and Outs, slow and easy. 

This is where the difference in production versus original mentality comes in. Some woods and resin blanks can handle the feed rate differences introduced by hand pushing. But many segmented blanks will be VERY sensitive to this. 

Heat will weaken the bond of CA and epoxy even after it has cured. For this reason, I takes small bites and back out. You can do this by either method and the hand feed method is faster of course. But the locked down tail stock and hand wheel feed will give more consistent tolerances. As Ed said, hand feeding can introduce vibration that will decrease tolerance, which can increase the potential for separation at segments or disintegration.


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## Leather Man (Sep 7, 2008)

I don't want to highjack this thread but I think it fits in. When you drill on the lathe do you drill the whole blank at once or do you cut it to the lengths of the tubes first and then drill each piece separately?
Thanks
Ben


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## leehljp (Sep 7, 2008)

Leather Man said:


> I don't want to highjack this thread but I think it fits in. When you drill on the lathe do you drill the whole blank at once or do you cut it to the lengths of the tubes first and then drill each piece separately?
> Thanks
> Ben



Cut then and do one at a time. The only long blanks that I do on the lathe is for duck calls.


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## randyrls (Sep 7, 2008)

leehljp said:


> *Where the water hits the wheel:* I can *visually* see, control and make finer adjustments for the "entrance point" on the lathe as the blank turns. I don't have the ability to control within 1/32 the entrance point on a DP drilled blank with close to 1/2 inch size bits. Even with a cross vise, It sure LOOKS to me like it is going to be centered, but the first little divot shows that it is out by 1/32 or so. The problem is that this first "divot", if out of center by 1/32 will influence the entrance from from then on.



To join the thread; Hank;  I have a square piece of wood I clamp in my centering vise.  I marked the end with the center of the blank.  A "wiggler" is used to set the DP directly above the center of the blank.  I can then drill any number of blanks.  I usually get to within .005 on the two ends of the blank.

I was playing with my camera and posted two test videos to my Photo Gallery pages:
http://www.coleman-family.org/g2/main.php?g2_itemId=43

Hope this helps.....


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## randyrls (Sep 7, 2008)

leehljp said:


> Below is a link to a pen where .01 inch centering from end to end was a necessity:
> 
> http://www.penturners.org/photos/images/940/1_Baron_PenStripes.jpg



Wow! Hank;  That is a nice pen........


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## leehljp (Sep 7, 2008)

randyrls said:


> To join the thread; Hank;  I have a square piece of wood I clamp in my centering vise.  I marked the end with the center of the blank.  A "wiggler" is used to set the DP directly above the center of the blank.  I can then drill any number of blanks.  I usually get to within .005 on the two ends of the blank.
> 
> I was playing with my camera and posted two test videos to my Photo Gallery pages:
> http://www.coleman-family.org/g2/main.php?g2_itemId=43
> ...



I do something similar but different - and it has been mentioned here before: With the bit in the DP chuck, I lower it to the the centering (blank) vise and tighten the vise to the drill bit. Then clamp the vise to the DP Table and open the vise, releasing the drill bit. It is centered.

But I personally get better control on the lathe. Some people are just plum good and accurate. They can do better by hand than I can by micro-adjusters. The lathe provides a much finer feed control from the tailstock than a DP for "most" people. And for me, even with the DP centered as I mentioned, I still don't trust my vise. If I had a PH, then that would be another story. :biggrin:


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## jdmyers4 (Sep 9, 2008)

Thank you all for the good info about using a lathe to drill blanks.  I've been using my DP for drilling blanks.  It's fine except when I try to drill a sgemented pen - like a Celtic Knott. 

I just happened to have a tail-stock drilling chuck for my lathe, but never really used it.  I tried it out last night.  The hole was bored right through the center and looked pretty much centered on both ends.  Now I'm pretty excited - I learned a new technique.

Thanks guys!


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## bitshird (Sep 9, 2008)

I only use a lathe as well, basically because I don't own a drill press, simple process really, turn the wood round, then put in 3 or 4 jaw chuck and put drill chuck in tail stock   Bada Bing, ya got a hole smack dead center


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