# Complaints???



## jttheclockman (Oct 5, 2010)

If you were to have the ear of the big pen kit makers, what would be some of your biggest complaints??? 

If you want to get specific about certain kits that would be fine also. Do not use vendor names!!!!!!! This is for the guys making the kits today. 

We always talk on this forum like we are a voice to be heard. This is getting discussed in other threads here as we speak. We feel we are an important gog in the pen making industry from what I keep reading. So lets have the voices heard. 

Now lets not get confused with companies copying some blanks that have been shown here. That is a story or question for another day. This is for the kit makers. Thanks for replying.


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## mrcook4570 (Oct 5, 2010)

I would like to see more individual parts (especially for screw caps) offered.


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## ed4copies (Oct 5, 2010)

Stan,

You realize if they made pieces available, they would sell fewer kits.


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## aggromere (Oct 5, 2010)

I use only a select number of kits and don't really have any complaints about them.   The only thing I would ask is for more variety of quality kits.  Not the ornate ones like jr. emperor or jr. majestic, something sleeker like the gent and jr gent.  I would really like to see a twist version of jr gent where it is a one piece pen with two sleeves.  

If you are trying to come up with a list of kits that were the most popular that would be an interesting pole to take.  I actually like the cigar kits from AS and berea.  Most are inexpensive, work well, look and feel nice.


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## HSTurning (Oct 5, 2010)

I have only made a few different kits but here is what I have to offer.
Sierra/ Wall Street transmission coming lose and sliding deep into the tube.
Bushing not matching parts.  I bought a cigar and the matching bushing.  The diffierence in the bushing vs. the pen parts was laughable.

As a side issue. Missing parts in kits.  I have had a few kits with missing parts.
Let me think and see what else I can remember.


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## glycerine (Oct 5, 2010)

mrcook4570 said:


> I would like to see more individual parts (especially for screw caps) offered.


 
+1 on that...


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## lazyguy (Oct 5, 2010)

There might be something along these lines already, I just haven’t found it yet. The way twist pens mates the upper and lower doesn’t always look very clean. The JR Gent ball point makes a nice pen in that respect but it would be nice to see a model like that only thinner. The Euro almost fits that bill but it would be nice to see a part on the top of the lower barrel that mates in a recess of the CB like the JR Gent and make the CB a press fit also.


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## Padre (Oct 5, 2010)

Replacement parts.  If you screw up a nib, tip, transmission, etc., sometimes you have to sacrifice another whole kit just to get a replacement part.


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## toddlajoie (Oct 5, 2010)

Padre said:


> Replacement parts. If you screw up a nib, tip, transmission, etc., sometimes you have to sacrifice another whole kit just to get a replacement part.





NewLondon88 said:


> Spare parts!
> 
> and less discrepancy in plating costs. The difference in cost between plating
> in 10k or rhodium is minuscule.
> ...



Ditto and Ditto +. 

While I think a lot of kits are drastically overpriced for the cost of creating them, I would still be happy to buy individual parts even if the sum total of putting a kit together out of separates added up to more than a kit. That would let us replace a damaged part without costing a kit and acquiring an inventory of non-damageable parts. It would also let us, for a premium, mix and match styles...

Bulk parts would be great too, rather than bulk kits. Being able to buy 100 center thread sets so you can make double closed pens without having to buy clips, caps and ends that you aren't going to use...


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## DCBluesman (Oct 5, 2010)

Other than fixing the oft-mentioned Sierra issue, I'm pretty darned happy with the manufacturers.


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## JimMc7 (Oct 5, 2010)

+1 re the faulty design of Sierra twist transmission 

Get rid of the black (nylon/Delrin/rubber?) band at the center of Cambridge pens -- particularly the Hybrids -- nice pen if that black band was either gone or plated.

Replace painted pen couplers on Barons with plated.  I have several customers who prefer the size of the Baron vs Jr Gents but don't like the black painted couplers.  Also, IME, the fit of Baron parts is a bit loose -- sometimes I can push a cap on w/o a press -- I always use Loctite on all Baron parts as a precaution.

Publish thread sizes for all pen components and sell taps/dies for those who want to customize a kit.


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## lwalden (Oct 5, 2010)

I would add that, for the capped pens (Rollerballs and Fountains), that it would be good to come up with a way to reduce the tendency to have the caps come off while being carried in one's shirt pocket. George (TexatDurango) came up with an aftermarket fix using black silicon sealer to lay down a small bead inside the centercoupler and smooth out with a q-tip, and others have posted about using o-rings (which look cheesy, especially on a high end pen), however I would much prefer to see a manufacturer supplied solution to this issue.


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## JimMc7 (Oct 5, 2010)

Forgot one...

Provide a click pen which operates as smoothly as a $2 Bic!


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## Rmartin (Oct 5, 2010)

I would like to see a high end series of kits with different styles but use the same bushings and drill bits. Also, the drill bits should be of a standard size. There is no good reason to have to use a 27/64 drill bit.


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## chriselle (Oct 5, 2010)

Parts...parts...and more parts....


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## OKLAHOMAN (Oct 5, 2010)

+1 Yes, yes,yes!




lwalden said:


> I would add that, for the capped pens (Rollerballs and Fountains), that it would be good to come up with a way to reduce the tendency to have the caps come off while being carried in one's shirt pocket. George (TexatDurango) came up with an aftermarket fix using black silicon sealer to lay down a small bead inside the centercoupler and smooth out with a q-tip, and others have posted about using o-rings (which look cheesy, especially on a high end pen), however I would much prefer to see a manufacturer supplied solution to this issue.


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## Smitty37 (Oct 5, 2010)

*Yup*



JimMc7 said:


> Forgot one...
> 
> Provide a click pen which operates as smoothly as a $2 Bic!


Actually I've seen better click mechanism than we can get on what appear to me to be $1.00 pens.


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## Smitty37 (Oct 5, 2010)

*Parts....*

Parts availability...I'd like it to be different but there are a lot of good reasons why this problem exists and the main one is the number of individual items a seller would have to stock to handle this issue.  For instance, I carry about 20 different platings in slimlines --- there are 4 non-interchangeable parts in each finish. So that would be 80 items I would have to stock and track just to cover the dozen or so complaints I get per year about missing or damaged parts.  Cheaper for me to just send a whole kit and let the buyer worry about what to do with the extra parts.


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## Smitty37 (Oct 5, 2010)

*General*

I would like to see more standardization (i.e 7mm parts from one maker fit 7mm pens by all makers) and interchangeable parts, along with a way to identify which parts can be interchanged with other kits.  Someone told me when I first started that you can't assume a slimline part from one maker will fit a slimline kit from another --- he was right...PSI even has different 7mm tubes for their own 7mm pens and pencils.


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## chriselle (Oct 5, 2010)

Smitty37 said:


> Parts availability...I'd like it to be different but there are a lot of good reasons why this problem exists and the main one is the number of individual items a seller would have to stock to handle this issue.  For instance, I carry about 20 different platings in slimlines --- there are 4 non-interchangeable parts in each finish. So that would be 80 items I would have to stock and track just to cover the dozen or so complaints I get per year about missing or damaged parts.  Cheaper for me to just send a whole kit and let the buyer worry about what to do with the extra parts.



The parts I'm talking about are couplers, threads, and front sections for the higher end kits.  You're right though, anything other than the high end kits wouldn't make sense.


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## Bellsy (Oct 5, 2010)

ed4copies said:


> Stan,
> 
> You realize if they made pieces available, they would sell fewer kits.



Car manufacturers don't sell fewer cars....or do they?

Dave


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## jttheclockman (Oct 5, 2010)

This is great. Keep them coming. There are alot of good ones here. 

Lou,  I don't believe you


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## Smitty37 (Oct 5, 2010)

*Check thrie prices*



Bellsy said:


> ed4copies said:
> 
> 
> > Stan,
> ...


 
No, because if you break more than a couple of pieces it's cheaper to replace the car than fix it.


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## ed4copies (Oct 5, 2010)

Bellsy said:


> ed4copies said:
> 
> 
> > Stan,
> ...



You replace tires, batteries, etc.  So yes, they sell fewer cars than they would if you couldn't purchase these parts, but I always consider "cars" a terrible analogy.

Do you replace parts on your coffeemaker, or buy new---I know I buy about two a year (one at the office and one at home).  I probably COULD buy the parts and fix it--but for $40???

The pen kit manufacturers make 2000 (pick a number) of each part.  Now, as Smitty says, you want to be able to buy each individual part in every plating.  Ties up a lot of cash for someone so your replacement cost can be lower and the manufacturers can make less money, overall.

Not a good marketing plan for the guy MAKING the product, who actually controls MOST of the variables in this industry.


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## Smitty37 (Oct 5, 2010)

*Buy*



ed4copies said:


> Bellsy said:
> 
> 
> > ed4copies said:
> ...


 
Rizheng actually sells the nibs, centerband, caps and clips for most of their slimline platings as well as tubes, transmissions and refills...I think aimed at a market that wants them to assemble their own kits.  I think that even buying large numbers it would cost as much or more buying things this way than buying complete kits.


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## maxwell_smart007 (Oct 5, 2010)

ed4copies said:


> Do you replace parts on your coffeemaker, or buy new---I know I buy about two a year (one at the office and one at home).  I probably COULD buy the parts and fix it--but for $40???
> 
> The pen kit manufacturers make 2000 (pick a number) of each part.  Now, as Smitty says, you want to be able to buy each individual part in every plating.  Ties up a lot of cash for someone so your replacement cost can be lower and the manufacturers can make less money, overall.
> 
> Not a good marketing plan for the guy MAKING the product, who actually controls MOST of the variables in this industry.



I just fixed my coffee maker...also took apart a fridge and replaced a blown capacitor....Fixed my microwave by buying a few canoe clips and a piece of micasheet...

It's my way of fighting back against the disposable culture - I buy the best that I can afford, and maintain it indefinitely!


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## ed4copies (Oct 5, 2010)

Well Andrew, 

You're a very unusual young man (IME).  I play cards with a group of young executives and the conversation is most interesting.  REPAIR is not in their vocabulary, for the most part.

But, I am glad to hear you do these things, as the local trash will not pick up my old microwave, I'll send it to you!!!


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## jskeen (Oct 5, 2010)

I guess my only major issue is that nobody has managed to make a fountain pen the size of the euro or ft, but with the quality of a jr gent, ie plated metal male threads, and nylon female inserts, decent looking clip, and most importantly a standard nib in a 2 piece metal section and housing.


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## maxwell_smart007 (Oct 5, 2010)

ed4copies said:


> Well Andrew,
> 
> You're a very unusual young man (IME).  I play cards with a group of young executives and the conversation is most interesting.  REPAIR is not in their vocabulary, for the most part.
> 
> But, I am glad to hear you do these things, as the local trash will not pick up my old microwave, I'll send it to you!!!



Those young execs are missing out on the pride of knowing you fixed something, the joy of saving a piece of trash from the landfill, and the extreme satisfaction of knowing you've saved a boatload of money (especially knowing what things cost in the sticks here!)  

You're probably right, Ed - I think I'm a remnant of an earlier time...

case in point: my wife and I will sit around and play trivial pursuit some evenings instead of watching tv.   (and I don't have a cellphone either - my phone is hardwired to the wall and has a rotary dial!  I wouldn't have an answering machine if I didn't need it for work)  

If I have what you need, I'd be happy to send you the pieces to fix your microwave if you haven't replaced it already...


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## chriselle (Oct 5, 2010)

maxwell_smart007 said:


> ed4copies said:
> 
> 
> > Well Andrew,
> ...



Hey, even Maxwell Smart had a cell phone....:wink:


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## maxwell_smart007 (Oct 5, 2010)

No, it was a rotary-dial shoe phone...I'd actually buy one of those!!


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## jttheclockman (Oct 5, 2010)

Having parts for all kits is a great idea. If these companies wouldn't have soooo many kits that are so redundant than it would be easier. Also like someone mentioned abit more uniformity with the kit parts would be nice so that interchanging parts is not out of the question. It is not that it is impossible it is that they choose not to. 

I wish I knew how much markup is on these kits. These so called highend kits are rediculous in the pricing. They get the prices because we choose to buy them. But what is evident there has been a down turn in the purchase of these kits as evident by what some distributors are carrying. 

Going green is what this century is all about and why not in the pen making industry also. We do it with our blanks so why not with pen kits???  Nothing wrong with that idea.


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## maxwell_smart007 (Oct 5, 2010)

jttheclockman said:


> I wish I knew how much markup is on these kits. These so called highend kits are rediculous in the pricing. They get the prices because we choose to buy them. But what is evident there has been a down turn in the purchase of these kits as evident by what some distributors are carrying.



Unless you know of an alternative supplier - as in a pen kit manufacturing company with nothing to do - then knowing the markup isn't going to help much...

They make the product, prices are set, and we consumers either buy the product (so they make more), or we don't, so they lower the price and/or discontinue the item...

The price is set at what the market will bear.


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## Bellsy (Oct 6, 2010)

ed4copies said:


> Bellsy said:
> 
> 
> > ed4copies said:
> ...



Terrible analogy or not, the fact is that you can buy almost anything to repair or fix a vehicle. 

If I needed to fix my coffee maker, I would look into the problem before making a decision whether to fix it or replace it. Much like Andrew, I also fix what I can. The sad thing is that we are in a disposable society and a lot of people just toss it out. And why do they toss it out? Well my best guess would be that they have no idea what they are looking at in the first place. Not a fault of their own, but a fault of the society we have created and become a part of. 

As for replacement parts that Smitty speaks of, it is a lot of cash, but I believe that it's not all of the parts that we are speaking about. There are a lot of parts that are frequent to being damaged due to design or the level of difficulty in which assembly is required. Some of the major components only need to be stocked. It is these products that will sell and still bring an income to the manufacturers. 

Maybe the manufacturers need to build a better product and there would be a lot less complaints. If I damage a part, I try my best to repair it with an alternative solution before tearing into a new kit for parts. I also watch the forums for people who are cleaning out their shop of miscellaneous pen parts. Who knows, I might find some spare parts for that pen under the dust. As a last resort, ask in the forums and keep your fingers crossed.

If I had to make a complaint, it would be about the manufacturers who are allowed to sell cheap pen kits to unsuspecting buyers.

Dave


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## nava1uni (Oct 6, 2010)

maxwell_smart007 said:


> ed4copies said:
> 
> 
> > Do you replace parts on your coffeemaker, or buy new---I know I buy about two a year (one at the office and one at home).  I probably COULD buy the parts and fix it--but for $40???
> ...



It is nice to read that you fix things.  I fix everything that I can including our cars.  I just repaired my garage heater with pieces from a heater I found for free on Craig's List.  It is a satisfying feeling to know that I have kept something from the landfill.  Keep it up.

As for pen kits I also wish that bushings could be used on more then one type of pen, threads were cleaner and that sections matched better.


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## 1080Wayne (Oct 6, 2010)

"You're a very unusual young man (IME).  I play cards with a group of  young executives and the conversation is most interesting.  REPAIR is  not in their vocabulary, for the most part."

Unfortunately , you are correct , Ed . A son-in-law ( mechanical engineer) is getting a new fridge tomorrow because he doesn`t know how to troubleshoot the problem on the 5 yr old one . Another SIL`s ( computer expert ) response to any appliance problem is  that  `It`s only electronics - buy a new one . `

`I think I'm a remnant of an earlier time...`

Perhaps you are Andrew , maybe that`s why we like to have you around ! But the way the world turns , I suspect you may find yourself more in tune with your grandchildren`s thinking than Ed or I do with ours .


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## JohnU (Oct 6, 2010)

I agree with the standard measurements and not this odd stuff. I've had many requests for caps that push or snap on and off and not the usual threaded stuff.  This last one is not a big deal but just my opinion but u like the cigar kits but that oversized tip bothers me everytime.  I would like to see optional parts that allow you to customize the kits with options like buying a cigar tip that is the diameter of the bushing and not that wide jumbo tip or other clips.


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## Smitty37 (Oct 6, 2010)

*From where???*



jttheclockman said:


> Having parts for all kits is a great idea. If these companies wouldn't have soooo many kits that are so redundant than it would be easier. Also like someone mentioned abit more uniformity with the kit parts would be nice so that interchanging parts is not out of the question. It is not that it is impossible it is that they choose not to.
> 
> I wish I knew how much markup is on these kits. These so called highend kits are rediculous in the pricing. They get the prices because we choose to buy them. But what is evident there has been a down turn in the purchase of these kits as evident by what some distributors are carrying.
> 
> Going green is what this century is all about and why not in the pen making industry also. We do it with our blanks so why not with pen kits??? Nothing wrong with that idea.


 
Who's markup....the factory's?  The manufacturer of record i.e. Dayacoms?  Or the folks you actually buy them from?  With or without shipping included?  Without revealing any concrete numbers I will tell you that it is a lot.  But, be aware that the higher the price of the kit the smaller the impact of international and domestic shipping so high priced kits might well have a smaller mark-up than low priced kits.  My supplier will ship me a $10.00 kit weighing one ounce for the same price he will ship me a $1.00 kit at the same weight.


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## Smitty37 (Oct 6, 2010)

*Repair vs Toss*

The economics of our society are built around expensive labor and cheap materials. 

When I was young (in the late 1940's) my mother and father bought a pop-up toaster paying about $18 dollars or so. Wages were about a dollar or so an hour...if a repair guy fixed something on it they might have a charge of $1.00 plus a few cents for the part, which the repair guy would probably have in stock, and they would have the toaster back in a day or two - well worth fixing. I also have a pop-up toaster, I paid about $ 30 for it...wages are about $20.00 or so an hour. If a repair guy fixes it it will cost about $20.00 plus the cost of the part...if he can get the part. The item might be of no use to you for weeks while he waits.
Not really much of a bargain.

Repair facilities want close to 1/3 of the cost (new) of my microwave just to come look at it. and nearly 25% of the new cost (per year) for "insurance" that will provide a free visit if it breaks. It's no mystery to me why we are a throw away society...it costs more to fix than to build new.


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## soligen (Oct 6, 2010)

I'd like to see much more mix and match parts - especially clips.

I'd also like to see someone break the appearant assumption that slims are lower end.  Yes, you can get them in better platings, but to me they appear to be the same lower end parts just with a different plating.  I'd like higher end clips (cast) for slim pens. IMO the only 7mm clip thats worth while is the euro style, and to me that seems mid range). Also a supurb 7mm tranny - turns smooth with a very positive feel of snapping into the extended position.

Cigar pens with a smooth (no bands or ridges) nib section.


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## Smitty37 (Oct 8, 2010)

*True*



ed4copies said:


> Stan,
> 
> You realize if they made pieces available, they would sell fewer kits.


 
That's true, but maybe they'd be like the auto industry and charge enough for the pieces that it won't affect the bottom line...I have checked my supplier and buying bulk pieces seems to add up to a lot more than a kit even when buying fairly large quantities.


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## monophoto (Oct 8, 2010)

1.  The selection of platings for fountain pen kits is far too limited.  I've only found one kit that comes in something other than 24K gold.  Fountain pen users are accustomed to spending a bit more for their writing instruments, so the cost of better platings should not be a problem.  Why are fountain pen users forced to accept platings that are known to have a limited life expectancy?

2.  Fountain pen kits that aren't supplied with a pump/converter.  Every kit that I've bought came with only a cartridge.  The cost of a pump/converter isn't that much more than the cost of a single cartridge, and offering a pump makes the pen infinitely more appealing. 

3.  Excessively ornate higher-end kits.  For me, understated elegance is more appealing than bling.  I might be willing to pay more for a higher-end kit if I thought that the incremental cost translated into incremental value, but I'm not going to pay for unwanted, tacky ornamentation.

4.  The difficulty in obtaining parts for kits.  I'm relatively new at the penturning game, but already I have a box of left over parts either that weren't needed to build a particular pen, or that were salvageable from a pen that didn't meet my quality standards.  There are a couple of dealers who offer parts - why doesn't every dealer do that?  And there are some parts that I still haven't found a source for - like those little plastic caps that are supplied with snap-cap fountain and roller ball kits that become the part of the pen that holds the cap onto the body.

5.  Kits that cannot be disassembled.  There seem to be two factors that prevent disassembly.  Slimline kits are supposedly the easiest to take apart, but some of the lower end kits use transmissions that will break apart when you try to remove them from the body of the pen using the split-block approach.  And some cigar pens don't appear to have been designed with disassembly in mind.


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## Smitty37 (Oct 8, 2010)

*Lack of parts*



monophoto said:


> 1. The selection of platings for fountain pen kits is far too limited. I've only found one kit that comes in something other than 24K gold. Fountain pen users are accustomed to spending a bit more for their writing instruments, so the cost of better platings should not be a problem. Why are fountain pen users forced to accept platings that are known to have a limited life expectancy?
> 
> 2. Fountain pen kits that aren't supplied with a pump/converter. Every kit that I've bought came with only a cartridge. The cost of a pump/converter isn't that much more than the cost of a single cartridge, and offering a pump makes the pen infinitely more appealing.
> 
> ...


I can only speak from my own experience and the quick answer is there are too many parts.  There are 4 non-interchangeable (with kits having a different finish) parts in a slimline kit and at least 21 finishes in just the Fancy style slimines.  That would be 80 part numbers a dealer would have to stock just to cover slimlines. That translates to cost.


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## jttheclockman (Oct 8, 2010)

Smitty37 said:


> monophoto said:
> 
> 
> > 1. The selection of platings for fountain pen kits is far too limited. I've only found one kit that comes in something other than 24K gold. Fountain pen users are accustomed to spending a bit more for their writing instruments, so the cost of better platings should not be a problem. Why are fountain pen users forced to accept platings that are known to have a limited life expectancy?
> ...


 


That to me is such a lame exceuse I am tired of hearing it Smitty. When the manufactorers make the pen kits the parts are available. Not all parts are needed to be kept as replacement. If these manufatorers stop making so many duplicate kits this problem would not exist. Make the parts more durable. Make the parts more interchangable if they are going to make so many. Look at your slimline line how many kits are there based on the slimline???  Way too many. They all look alike when said and done. Change a ring here and there and they all look alike. Really tired of reading that excuse.


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## ed4copies (Oct 8, 2010)

Nearly all the slimline parts are available from Woodnwhimsies.  Why duplicate the same effort?  They sell them for a reasonable cost.  And they are GREAT people.


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## Smitty37 (Oct 9, 2010)

jttheclockman said:


> Smitty37 said:
> 
> 
> > monophoto said:
> ...


 
A lot -- but why?  Because there is a market for them.  Makers change the centerband and sell the kits for more money. The trouble is you can't get the variety of kits we have to choose from without having something different. 

Finishes parts are usually not interchangeable...if there are 20 different finishes you need 20 different nibs, 20 different centerbands, 20 different caps and 20 different clips....change to a different model slimline and you might be able to use the nib an cap but you'd still need a different clip and center band for each finiish.  You can also cover some other kits like trimlines and comforts with nibs and caps and clips...but still need different centerbands for each finish.   Now that is all with kits that are the same basic pen....and (for me) over 100 different part numbers if I wanted to carry spare parts for everything.  Cheaper and easier for me to send an occasional replacement kit if someone gets a missing or bad part.


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## randyrls (Oct 9, 2010)

Improve the quality of the bushings!  Too many of the bushings I get are out of spec in one way or another.  I started making my own to avoid having to buy inferior bushings.


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## steeler fan1 (Oct 9, 2010)

monophoto said:


> 1. The selection of platings for fountain pen kits is far too limited. I've only found one kit that comes in something other than 24K gold. Fountain pen users are accustomed to spending a bit more for their writing instruments, so the cost of better platings should not be a problem. Why are fountain pen users forced to accept platings that are known to have a limited life expectancy?
> 
> 2. Fountain pen kits that aren't supplied with a pump/converter. Every kit that I've bought came with only a cartridge. The cost of a pump/converter isn't that much more than the cost of a single cartridge, and offering a pump makes the pen infinitely more appealing.
> 
> ...


 

The first 3 items on this list would be at the top of my wish list. Better plating on FP for certain. Less bling on the high end FP kits. I'd prefer that my blank and creative turning provide the POP, not the hardware!

Carl


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## ed4copies (Oct 9, 2010)

What plating would you like??

Fountain "kits" are offered in 10kt gold, gold color titanium, rhodium and black titanium.  What other color would you like???


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## steeler fan1 (Oct 9, 2010)

ed4copies said:


> What plating would you like??
> 
> Fountain "kits" are offered in 10kt gold, gold color titanium, rhodium and black titanium. What other color would you like???


 

Ed, 

True but not on all kits. Maybe I'm asking to much but if I'm paying $35-50 or more for a kit I want to have more input to the kit. Perhaps its more certain vendors only offer limited plating. I can understand this from an inventory point. But from a consumer point its a pain jumping from one vendor to another to another to find the kit/finish I'm looking for. 
Perhaps this should be directed more to the manufacturer than the vendor. 

Being just a hobbiest I have no real buying clout so I'll just have to deal with what's available. Was not my intent to start anything, just adding my thoughts to the question posed by the OP.

Carl


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## Andrew Arndts (Oct 9, 2010)

I have only one request.  That either the kits are Made in the USA or Canada.  Perhaps the unique ones like the FP's are done in an European Country.  
Also the Tubes could be made to actual specifications.  Now I might be wrong in doing this but I put my tubes on my mandrel to sand them before gluing them in.  If I have to wrestle a tube on to the mandrel more often than not then Something is wrong.


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## ed4copies (Oct 9, 2010)

steeler fan1 said:


> ed4copies said:
> 
> 
> > What plating would you like??
> ...




HEY, Carl!!!

I don't take offense at much of ANYTHING--RELAX!!!!

The problem is there are not, yet, enough penmakers turning "better" pen kits.  This is the reason for the demise of the Emperor-Jr. Emperor series.  Offered in only two platings each, fountain and rollerball--sounds like no big deal, right???

Yet that means EIGHT versions!!!  At 500 each, a total of FOUR THOUSAND pen kits.  Which took too long to sell!!

I think you will see growth in the $15 (your cost) arena.  The Jr. Gent --Jr. Statesman have enjoyed a relative monopoly---look for more interest in that area.

As for the very high end pens--I'll be surprised if they don't "fade, fade, fade away".  The better penmaking "guys" are trying kitless--that kills the high end market.  If their kitless sells--that will be the direction the "kits" will follow.

We'll see--but with China and Dayacom both currently unpredictable, don't look for a lot of innovation from the manufacturers.  They are just "dog paddling" waiting for the water to get calm, again.

(MUCH of this is MY opinion----NOT a fact---I COULD be wrong of course that IS unlikely):biggrin::biggrin:


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## Ruby pen turning (Oct 10, 2010)

JimMc7 said:


> Forgot one...
> 
> Provide a click pen which operates as smoothly as a $2 Bic!


 Vertex PSI


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## knight_muzzleloader (Oct 10, 2010)

I want a twist pencil that takes .9 mm lead.  I also tried the power pencil psi and hated it.  But, thought the 2mm lead was cool.  I'd like a clutch pencil with the 2mm lead.


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## Smitty37 (Oct 11, 2010)

*Me Too*



Andrew Arndts said:


> I have only one request. That either the kits are Made in the USA or Canada. Perhaps the unique ones like the FP's are done in an European Country.
> Also the Tubes could be made to actual specifications. Now I might be wrong in doing this but I put my tubes on my mandrel to sand them before gluing them in. If I have to wrestle a tube on to the mandrel more often than not then Something is wrong.


 
I think we'd all like to see something like that.  I also think it is highly unlikely that we will.  My understanding is that in China and Taiwan making pen kits is a cottage industry with many small low cost producers.
That isn't the usual way we manufacture in the USA and Canada.


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## Smitty37 (Oct 11, 2010)

*I sort of agree*



ed4copies said:


> steeler fan1 said:
> 
> 
> > ed4copies said:
> ...


 
I kind of agree with Ed on the high end stuff.  Hi end kits are very costly to try to handle and there are just too many of them.  It is probably squeezing  even the big sellers.  I think Small sellers are going to have to pick and choose and not try to serve the whole market spectrum.  

And, on the other hand as Ed noted the high end pen makers seem to be moving away from kits, at least here...don't know about Europe and Asia.  

From their posts here I think some of the high end turners must be modifying kits or mixing parts from different kits - of course they'll need to find some sort of kits to continue to do that.  I think most of them won't want to machine their own nibs, clips, caps etc. although some of them are capable of turning most of those parts.


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## dow (Oct 11, 2010)

jskeen said:


> I guess my only major issue is that nobody has managed to make a fountain pen the size of the euro or ft, but with the quality of a jr gent, ie plated metal male threads, and nylon female inserts, decent looking clip, and most importantly a standard nib in a 2 piece metal section and housing.



I'd like to see this as well.


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