# Gun metal vs. blk.  ti.



## Don Wade (Mar 18, 2011)

Why not use gun metal instead of blk ti with the cost differential?

Don


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## DozerMite (Mar 18, 2011)

Durability.


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## alphageek (Mar 18, 2011)

Black TI is much harder and thus should have a much better long term wear.


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## hunter-27 (Mar 18, 2011)

same reason for gold Ti vs other gold


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## ed4copies (Mar 18, 2011)

Has anyone actually experienced gun metal wearing noticeably?


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## Russianwolf (Mar 18, 2011)

I'll let you know as I just ordered 4 of the Vertex Fountains in GM, and 4 in Chrome. I'll be making one as a tester for my use for a while.


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## ed4copies (Mar 18, 2011)

Mike,
I've carried SEVERAL gun metal pens, but I don't use just one pen, so I'm probably not going to "wear out" the plating.  I just wonder if anyone actually HAS worn it out.

Then, my next question will be:  Whose pen was it?  Rizheng, Dayacom, Berea or unknown (CSUSA could be China or Dayacom).  It's time we stopped generalizing and look at specific pen sources and their strengths and weaknesses.  I believe one vendor has better quality than the next---but we all call the pen a "sierra" so the confusion continues.


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## alphageek (Mar 18, 2011)

I have seen wear on gun metal... and it was significant wear.... But it was a while ago (2 years) and on a slimline (PSI  - but I don't know the 'source' beyond that)... and I don't know if it was a fluke... Because of that after a while, I only used Chrome or the better platings( Platinum or Ti) in slimlines.


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## ed4copies (Mar 18, 2011)

Thanks Dean, and thanks for drawing that distinction.

PSI offers the "funline" and their regular line.  I have never used their gunmetal, but I sold hundreds of their TiGold slims, with the TN on the clip.  Never had one come back.  Only thing I had against them was the TN.

Just checked their website and, interestingly, they offer gun metal in their FunLine AND in their regular line.  Suppose these are EQUAL in quality?  If yes, why the price difference?

If not, shouldn't they have different names?

But if they are NOT equal in quality, and they are both called "gun Metal", how can we deduce whether gun metal is good, or not?

See the problem?


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## jttheclockman (Mar 18, 2011)

ed4copies said:


> Has anyone actually experienced gun metal wearing noticeably?


 

Yes and I had to give the pens away. Now this was some time ago so maybe they have done some new formulas and it is better but I would never trust it again. My opinion

Hey Dean types faster too.


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## omb76 (Mar 18, 2011)

ed4copies said:


> Thanks Dean, and thanks for drawing that distinction.
> 
> PSI offers the "funline" and their regular line.  I have never used their gunmetal, but I sold hundreds of their TiGold slims, with the TN on the clip.  Never had one come back.  Only thing I had against them was the TN.
> 
> ...



I have thought the same thing about their chrome comfort grip.  They are only offered in the funline not regular line.  I always assumed chrome was very durable so I'm confused as to why they won't guarantee it.  Made me wonder if the components are of a lesser quality, but not sure how that would be...


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## alphageek (Mar 18, 2011)

ed4copies said:


> Just checked their website and, interestingly, they offer gun metal in their FunLine AND in their regular line.  Suppose these are EQUAL in quality?  If yes, why the price difference?



You sure??   I just went and looked at the slims and comforts... (so unless you were looking at something else?)  Gun metal is in their fun line.... Black TI is in their normal line - I don't see 2 gun metal?

The interesting thing is I remember when they came out with the "fun line" and I've never ordered a fun line kit, so I know this tells me when I had mine from.


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## ed4copies (Mar 18, 2011)

Search term "Gun Metal" Dean--two words--25ish results.


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## ed4copies (Mar 18, 2011)

http://woodturning.pennstateind.com/gun-metal

They call the one a "Trimline" and there are several cigars and other "prestige" pens in gun metal.  Then there are the "Funline" too.


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## alphageek (Mar 18, 2011)

ed4copies said:


> http://woodturning.pennstateind.com/gun-metal
> 
> They call the one a "Trimline" and there are several cigars and other "prestige" pens in gun metal.  Then there are the "Funline" too.



I see now... Marketing 101 - whatever you do don't be logical?  (sorry - I'm an engineer at heart!)

Yep... clear as mud... I would have to say the ones that I have seen an issue are what is probably now the funline slim and comfort.    However, I don't know what that means anymore and my past issues are no guarantee at all of current quality for any brand.


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## ed4copies (Mar 18, 2011)

Dean, if it makes you feel any better, that was my third, and only successful, search term used.


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## Smitty37 (Mar 18, 2011)

*Changed offerings*

PSI has been making some changes in the finishes they offer.  They have stopped offering Chrome in some of their lines where they used to have it and they have picked up Platinum.  They have dropped Gun Metal in some lines and seem to have replaced it with Black Ti.  In addition they are offering Titanium Nitride in some lines where they didn't have it before.

So what they offered a couple of years ago might not make a good comparison to today.  Gun Metal and Black Ti have a very similar look. I think some of the big houses are moving toward the black ti but might hold GM in the low end kits.

For what it's worth I've been selling low end kits for a few years now and have yet to have my first customer complaint about premature wear.   Two of the four favored finishes by my customers are 24kt Gold and GM.


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## Smitty37 (Mar 18, 2011)

*Trimline*



ed4copies said:


> http://woodturning.pennstateind.com/gun-metal
> 
> They call the one a "Trimline" and there are several cigars and other "prestige" pens in gun metal. Then there are the "Funline" too.


 
Trimline is a 7mm you have seen elsewhere called Streamline and it is priced about like their slimlines-- it is also one that they still offer in Chrome - go figure.  I think it is a take-off on the comfort without the grip.


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## Smitty37 (Mar 18, 2011)

*China*



omb76 said:


> ed4copies said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks Dean, and thanks for drawing that distinction.
> ...


Their regular line used to be from Taiwan and a I think most if not all of them still are.  Their funline have always been made in China - that was the difference in price.


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## Smitty37 (Mar 18, 2011)

*My take on Chrome*

Platinum is about as shiny as silver and as durable as chrome, I think some folks are starting to pickup platinum and will move to dropping both silver and chrome....one less item to inventory.  I am giving that some thought myself right now - problem is in the cost of platinum, much higher than chrome or silver.


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## ed4copies (Mar 18, 2011)

What is the problem with Chrome?  I've always thought is was a great pen material.


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## Smitty37 (Mar 18, 2011)

*I don't*



ed4copies said:


> Mike,
> I've carried SEVERAL gun metal pens, but I don't use just one pen, so I'm probably not going to "wear out" the plating. I just wonder if anyone actually HAS worn it out.
> 
> Then, my next question will be: Whose pen was it? Rizheng, Dayacom, Berea or unknown (CSUSA could be China or Dayacom). It's time we stopped generalizing and look at specific pen sources and their strengths and weaknesses. I believe one vendor has better quality than the next---but we all call the pen a "sierra" so the confusion continues.


 
Don't let your source see you say that, they are mighty sensitive about that - I call mine G Series (Gold or Gold Tn with gun metal grips and finial) and Le Roi Gold Tn with Black Tn grips and finial.  Hard to tell the difference by just looking.


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## ed4copies (Mar 18, 2011)

Yes, I understand Berea is trying to "reclaim" their names.  Would certainly remove some of the stigma brought on by  the imitations that have used "Sierra" and "Cambridge" and "Ultra", etc.


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## Smitty37 (Mar 18, 2011)

*None that I see*



ed4copies said:


> What is the problem with Chrome? I've always thought is was a great pen material.


 
Personally I don't see any, I've read a couple of articles that imply that platinum wears better but I don't see anything in the numbers to say that.


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## Smitty37 (Mar 18, 2011)

*Trade Mark*



ed4copies said:


> Yes, I understand Berea is trying to "reclaim" their names. Would certainly remove some of the stigma brought on by the imitations that have used "Sierra" and "Cambridge" and "Ultra", etc.


 They need someone to send them the address of the trade mark registration office.


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## ed4copies (Mar 18, 2011)

From what I have heard, they have retained professional help to "handle" that.  When in doubt, retain an expert.


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## hunter-27 (Mar 18, 2011)

ed4copies said:


> Has anyone actually experienced gun metal wearing noticeably?


Yes, they were CUSA kits from a couple years ago, the newer stuff seems to be better so probably a change in formula.


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## vallealbert (Mar 18, 2011)

I do not remember where I read it, but apparently Gun Metal is Chrome  with a treatment to turn it dark....is it correct???  I have read a lot  about the durability of Chrome....why Gun Metal (if Chrome) do not have  the same durability????


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## arioux (Mar 18, 2011)

vallealbert said:


> I do not remember where I read it, but apparently Gun Metal is Chrome  with a treatment to turn it dark....is it correct???  I have read a lot  about the durability of Chrome....why Gun Metal (if Chrome) do not have  the same durability????



Gunmetal and black chrome are two different plating


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## Wildman (Mar 18, 2011)

Several years back was getting Berea chrome Cigar pens from WoodturningZ think  paid $2.95 per kit. Ordered some platinum Cigars from Berea on sale for $5.00 per kit.  When laid side by side I cannot tell the difference between chrome and platinum. 

I made some gunmetal civil war pens and like that plating a lot. I like black TI too!


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## vallealbert (Mar 18, 2011)

arioux said:


> vallealbert said:
> 
> 
> > I do not remember where I read it, but apparently Gun Metal is Chrome  with a treatment to turn it dark....is it correct???  I have read a lot  about the durability of Chrome....why Gun Metal (if Chrome) do not have  the same durability????
> ...



Thanks Alfred for the info...


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## ren-lathe (Mar 18, 2011)

*funline vs the rest*

The major difference between the so called funline (cheap low quality) & the others is the way they are plated. The better pens are rack plated this done by putting the individual parts on large racks. These racks are insulated except where the part contacts the rack & the hooks that the rack hangs from. The rack is lowered into the plating solutions and hung from copper bars that are positively charged there are two other bars on the sides of tank that have a negative charge. The solution that has the metal dissolved in it is conductive. The cheap ones are barrel plated. They dump the parts into a barrel that has electrodes inside, it is lowered into the solution and rotated. the same reaction takes place but the current is less & the electrical reaction is not constant hence lower amount of metal sticking to the parts. but it is much cheaper since you do not have to pay someone to rack & unrack the parts


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## Smitty37 (Mar 18, 2011)

*Not chrome*



vallealbert said:


> I do not remember where I read it, but apparently Gun Metal is Chrome with a treatment to turn it dark....is it correct??? I have read a lot about the durability of Chrome....why Gun Metal (if Chrome) do not have the same durability????


 
Gun metal is not a chrome based finish. It is a "black" nickel plating designed to imitate Black Ti.


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## Smitty37 (Mar 18, 2011)

*Not necessarily*



ren-lathe said:


> The major difference between the so called funline (cheap low quality) & the others is the way they are plated. The better pens are rack plated this done by putting the individual parts on large racks. These racks are insulated except where the part contacts the rack & the hooks that the rack hangs from. The rack is lowered into the plating solutions and hung from copper bars that are positively charged there are two other bars on the sides of tank that have a negative charge. The solution that has the metal dissolved in it is conductive. The cheap ones are barrel plated. They dump the parts into a barrel that has electrodes inside, it is lowered into the solution and rotated. the same reaction takes place but the current is less & the electrical reaction is not constant hence lower amount of metal sticking to the parts. but it is much cheaper since you do not have to pay someone to rack & unrack the parts


 
Funline is not a good name to use - funline is a PSI trademark for a specific line of slimline kits.  The plating being discussed involve much more than just slimline kits 

Rack plating in MUCH more expensive an as near as I can find out only the truly high end kits are rack plated because every piece must be attached individually to the rack in such a way that the attachment spot is hidden because leaves a tiny spot that is not plated (where it was attached) so you should be able to tell if a kit is rack plated. 

Tumble plating can provide perfectly good plating if the thickness of the plating (a function of time and solution) is controlled. 

The lower end kits will have a thinner coating than the more expensive also - for instance silver is usually no more than 5 microns, where sterling silver is as much as 4 times thicker. That is the reason they will wear faster - much more than the method of applying the plating from what I've read.


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## PenPal (Mar 18, 2011)

A most interesting ramble about platings, predudices of sourcing, hints at greater inside performances. When I was young one slogan used was if you cant afford a Dodge dodge a Ford. Not sure if this ever affected Ford Sales.

In purchases of health products the American and Australian Govt Authorities only give the nod of approval to the products that pass stringent tests of provan viability.

In Pen Making I am in awe of the people who can make a brass sleeve as accurately as they do consistantly producing pen kits for the real pricing ie Wholesale that they do.

Now because we as users feel we want outstanding product for less and less all of the makers over the world are faced with this dilemma. So they in their wisdom produce a product for all to consume at prices from and to satifying the present market.

Personally we could give vailed expression of the good and evil on all products however also to my knowledge no one person on OUR Forum has an exact knowledge of the finite detail necessary to make a definitive statement that will hold up in court of all the pen kits being manufactured and sold. A bit like asking Coca Cola their formula or as Rolls Royce when questioned about true HPower were known to reply adequate.

It is a nonsense to interpret from predudice ie shape , size, colour, durability etc without truly knowing the finite facts. These include the methods of use, how they are treated, used in a building site environment etc. My own experience in the family where my son uses his as he works on large industrial sites,drops from his pocket several floors to concrete below, my mates wife the other day her pen slipped from her purse in the car park then run over.

In this litigeous society and age at the minimal prices charged for Pen Kits no manufacturer
is prepared to guarantee plating etc with a lifetime guarantee. If you read the fine print on products any lifetime guarantee is suspect.

So we the users are led by the sellers who are led by the wholesalers and makers to believe their products are the one and only or the best because...................................
I have deep respect for the dealers on the forum they are damned if they do or damned if they dont but courage and empathy or bias has to become evident at some time or another
our privilige is to pay our money to whom we choose and hold just as strong feelings as they do on any subject and discuss it freely.

We in Australia have a buy Australian program, you read on the forum Buy American and I do, my Mum said son try to pay cash and you can hold your head up and shop where you choose. Naturally the balance in all countries of home product, costs vary we all seek higher wages, conditions etc.

In the meantime we get what we pay for and look for the best value perceived for our money, try to give courtesy to everyone thank you for the providers of Pen Making be they
hardware, timber or artificial materials such as carefully constructed blanks, the inventors of new methods,the people who commit to the library articles, the strong volunteers and to the owners of this forum.

Kind regards Peter.


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## vallealbert (Mar 18, 2011)

Smitty37 said:


> vallealbert said:
> 
> 
> > I do not remember where I read it, but apparently Gun Metal is Chrome with a treatment to turn it dark....is it correct??? I have read a lot about the durability of Chrome....why Gun Metal (if Chrome) do not have the same durability????
> ...


Thanks Smitty....


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## tool-man (Mar 19, 2011)

ed4copies said:


> Has anyone actually experienced gun metal wearing noticeably?



I have a friend who is a salesperson and uses pens quite heavily in a variety of environments.  So I give away a few and get some feedback.  To give you an idea of usage a Parker style gel refill lasts her about a month.

I have seen the beginnings of wear on her pens with regular gold, gunmetal and chrome fittings in time frames of 3-6 months.  But I can not tell you which source supplied them as I use several.


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## JerrySambrook (Mar 19, 2011)

Sorry Smitty "Gun metal is not a chrome based finish. It is a "black" nickel plating designed to imitate Black Ti." 


Gun Metal or gunmetal is an alloy of 88 percent copper, 10 percent tin, and 2 percent zinc. In some cases, the zinc is replaced with lead. In other cases there is lead added with the zinc as well.

If it was a nickel-based alloy, then it would have very good wear characteristics.

Sorry


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## ed4copies (Mar 19, 2011)

Help, Jerry!
I know copper is used as a base plating because it is very conductive.  But how can a "GunMetal", which appears dark, have 88% of it's material RED??  Or is copper NOT red, in it's native state?


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## Smitty37 (Mar 19, 2011)

*Black Nickel*



JerrySambrook said:


> Sorry Smitty "Gun metal is not a chrome based finish. It is a "black" nickel plating designed to imitate Black Ti."
> 
> 
> Gun Metal or gunmetal is an alloy of 88 percent copper, 10 percent tin, and 2 percent zinc. In some cases, the zinc is replaced with lead. In other cases there is lead added with the zinc as well.
> ...


Hi Jerry, I won't dispute what you say and I don't pretend to be a plating expert. I found a source that said gunmetal or gun metal on pens is a "black nickel" plating (I had the quotes wrong in the first post) and about the same wear characteristics and some of the softer metals. I Googled "black nickel" - and they seem to be saying it is a nickel/zinc plating that has much worse wear characteristics than nickel. 

The formula you are showing there looks more like bronze to me than anything else .... the traditional formula for bronze that I was taught in high school is 90% copper 10% tin but the formula can vary widely - I don't see why they would call the formula you list gun metal rather than bronze.


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## LeeR (Mar 20, 2011)

tool-man;1193242I have a friend who is a salesperson and uses pens quite heavily in a variety of environments. So I give away a few and get some feedback. To give you an idea of usage a Parker style gel refill lasts her about a month.[/quote said:
			
		

> My everyday pen now is a Woodcraft Retro in chrome, and I use the gel refills.  No wear yet on the chrome, but certainly too early to tell.  But I go thru the gel refills in about 2 months.  I like them, but they do put down a lot of ink!


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## hdtran (Mar 20, 2011)

JerrySambrook said:


> Sorry Smitty "Gun metal is not a chrome based finish. It is a "black" nickel plating designed to imitate Black Ti."
> 
> 
> Gun Metal or gunmetal is an alloy of 88 percent copper, 10 percent tin, and 2 percent zinc. In some cases, the zinc is replaced with lead. In other cases there is lead added with the zinc as well.
> ...



Jerry, that was an engineer's response--technicallly correct   One definition of 'gun metal' or 'gunmetal' is the bronze used to make artillery tubes.

The lawyer's response is that gunmetal is also a color:  Bluish-gray, is how I would describe it.  

(Note that I'm an engineer, so I'm entitled to make engineer jokes)

For the context of this discussion, I'm pretty sure that pen parts are not made from bronze.  Therefore, they're not made from gunmetal.  I would guess that some pen parts (nib, finial) are likely to be brass, but they could also be a less expensive metal.  Clips are likely to be steel (I put a magnet on some slimline clips; they're steel).  The various titanium, platinum, rhodium, gold, etc. are finishes, not solid parts.  In some cases, they are electro-plated finishes (platinum, rhodium, gold); others are vacuum chemical vapor deposited finishes (TiN, etc.).

Depending on the metal of the pen part (nib, clip, or finial), nickel may be used as an intermediate layer (this is total speculation--in industry, you almost always put a small layer of nickel before you do the gold, to promote adhesion and prevent migration of gold into the substrate or the substrate to the surface of the gold).

Regards,

hdtran

PS:  It was called gunmetal or 'gun metal' because that was the bronze used to cast guns!  And by gun, we mean 24-pound guns (guns shooting a 24 pound cannonball) or other large guns, not the itty bitty 0.22!


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## SteveG (Mar 20, 2011)

Whew!! After reading all this, I am EXHAUSTED! I think I will turn in my lathe, remove the yellow sock, and start using Bic pens:biggrin:!!!


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## Smitty37 (Mar 20, 2011)

*True*



hdtran said:


> JerrySambrook said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry Smitty "Gun metal is not a chrome based finish. It is a "black" nickel plating designed to imitate Black Ti."
> ...


I asked my supplier about some platings and I can attest that at least one supplier uses the vacuum chemical vapor method for their Gold Titanium finishes.  I have always wondered about all of the finishes being electro-plated. I know it works well for good conductors like gold, copper and silver but I have wondered about the other finishes.


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## hdtran (Mar 20, 2011)

Nickel can be deposited on plastics via 'electroless nickel.'  The gold-plate on the centerband of euro-pens is most likely done first with a flash of electroless nickel (chemical bath) followed by gold electroplate.

TiN is a ceramic material, and cannot (for now anyway) be electroplated.  On tools, such as drill bits or milling inserts, the TiN is almost always deposited in a vacuum chamber using some form of vapor deposition.

Aluminum, gold, etc. can also be deposited via vacuum deposition, but vacuum deposition is almost always more expensive than electroplating.

Gold is almost never plated directly on copper, because gold loves to migrate into copper (and vice-versa), so in electronic circuit boards or connectors, you always put a thin layer of nickel on top of the copper before you put the gold contact on at the end.

A trace of cobalt is usually added to the gold (even 24K is allowed up to 0.1% other stuff) to harden the gold.

I would guess that the pen industry is such small potatos (potatoes?) that they use the same chemicals and processes used by electronics or other large industries.

But of course, I don't do business in the pen industry, so I have no idea what I'm talking about.

Best,

hdtran


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## Smitty37 (Mar 20, 2011)

*Right maybe,*

I agree that the pen plating industry is probably small patatoes but I think it shares a lot of characteristics with the jewelry plating industry which might make it a little bigger.


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## Smitty37 (Mar 20, 2011)

*You said it*



hdtran said:


> Nickel can be deposited on plastics via 'electroless nickel.' The gold-plate on the centerband of euro-pens is most likely done first with a flash of electroless nickel (chemical bath) followed by gold electroplate.
> 
> TiN is a ceramic material, and cannot (for now anyway) be electroplated. On tools, such as drill bits or milling inserts, the TiN is almost always deposited in a vacuum chamber using some form of vapor deposition.
> 
> ...


Man did you ever hit that nail on the head.


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## Texatdurango (Mar 20, 2011)

hdtran said:


> ......But of course, I don't do business in the pen industry,* so I have no idea what I'm talking about*......


 
So, join the other 99.9% of the people on the forum who regularly get into these plating discussions!  :biggrin:


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## Smitty37 (Mar 20, 2011)

*yep*



LeeR said:


> tool-man;1193242I have a friend who is a salesperson and uses pens quite heavily in a variety of environments. So I give away a few and get some feedback. To give you an idea of usage a Parker style gel refill lasts her about a month.[/quote said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## JerrySambrook (Mar 20, 2011)

To answer a few questions that have been brought up

Ed, Copper is "reddish" in color, but both the lead and zinc will impart their hue more than the copper does in this case. That is mostly why it is grey.
It also has to do with the temps that the plating occurs at, and the process of plating as well.

TiN gets its gold color from having the process done in a high nitrogen chamber,  TiN can also be made other colors, depending on the gas used in the chamber durinf the process.

Nickel or a tin/lead substrate is put on various items between copper and gold to keep migration from occurring.  Hardware pieces are typically nickel, and boards are typically tin/lead (and the tin mention here is not Titanium Nitride).

Again though, there is no nickel in gun metal or gun matal plating, as nickel is a hard-wearing substance.

And you are right HY, a humans answer would be way different from a lawyers answer:biggrin:


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## Smitty37 (Mar 20, 2011)

*I've asked my supplier*

Jerry you might be right - I've asked my supplier what they use in their gun metal plating. 

My information didn't come from personal knowledge - I read an item about gun metal plating (as related to pen kits) that said it was "black nickel" and implied low wear resistance. One of the definitions of "black nickel" that I saw is that a zinc alloy solution is applied over bright nickel to give it the dark color and that surface is very thin and much more succeptable to wear than nickel, which we all agree wears very well which is why it was used in making coins. Other dexcriptions of black nickel imply that it has very good wear characteristics but is often used for decorative purposes.

My supplier says their gun metal is composed of nickel, zinc and bronze.....I did not ask how they apply it or what the formulation is.


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## JerrySambrook (Mar 21, 2011)

Smitty,
   If they are using a nickel based plating, then they are refering to it by color and composition.
The lawyers strike again.

My only issue with your supplier saying he/she uses nickel is the supposed durability of the plating.

I cannot say yeah or nay, as I have not carried one in gunmetal, even though I have made them.


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## Smitty37 (Mar 21, 2011)

*probably this*



JerrySambrook said:


> Smitty,
> If they are using a nickel based plating, then they are refering to it by color and composition.
> The lawyers strike again.
> 
> ...


 
The nickel is more than likely applied as a base with the bronze/zinc applied to the nickel - wear durability would then be more related to the bronze/zinc. Nickel is a popular base plating for some applications. The zinc is probably for color and maybe to make the bronze less brittle since that is one of the bad characteristics of bronze.  That might be why the one place I read GM pens called it "black nickel" which is a bright nickel base with something applied over it to darken it.

Our problem with this stuff is that there appear to be no real standards. 

For instance we have satin, brushed satin and satin chrome - all look pretty much the same but I seriously doubt that they are. Then there is satin pearl, satin silver and pearl silver - they seem to be the same finish but who knows for sure.

Upgrade Gold - means different things from different makers. 

Even Gold Titanium .... some manufactures deposit gold colored Titanium and then sputter very thin 24kt gold to match the 24kt gold color...some then plate again. I think this is what Woodcraft calls Woodcraft Gold.

Sterling Silver - only means solid silver it does not necessarily meet the rather rigid requirements of jewelry for claiming sterling silver. 

It's enough to drive a man to drink.


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## flyitfast (Jun 25, 2013)

Whew!


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## longbeard (Jun 26, 2013)

flyitfast said:


> Whew!


 

I'll second that "Whew" with a WHEEWWW! I need a nap now


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## sbwertz (Jun 27, 2013)

My carry pen is gunmetal.  It has been in my purse for 3 1/2 years with NO sign of wear. It shares a pocket in my purse with a nail file, several flash drives, a nail clipper, small swiss army knife, etc. and still looks as good as when I made it.


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## Bigj51 (Jun 27, 2013)

sbwertz said:


> My carry pen is gunmetal.  It has been in my purse for 3 1/2 years with NO sign of wear.



That is strange. I carry a vertex click in gunmetal and it wears absolutely horribly. If I am making a pen to look good AND be durable then I select black titanium every time. The only reason I bought the vertex in gunmetal is that they do not offer it in black titanium.


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## avbill (Jun 27, 2013)

Stainless Steel   will give you either a high polish look  or you can dull it for that satin look.  And if it solid SS it will never wear!


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## sbwertz (Jun 27, 2013)

This was one of the very first pens I made on a slimline kit I got from smitty's pen works in gunmetal.  I suppose it depends on what kit and who makes it.

Sharon



Bigj51 said:


> sbwertz said:
> 
> 
> > My carry pen is gunmetal.  It has been in my purse for 3 1/2 years with NO sign of wear.
> ...


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## joefyffe (Jun 27, 2013)

Smitty37 said:


> JerrySambrook said:
> 
> 
> > Smitty,
> ...



Thanks Smitty!  My wife hasn't heard that one YET!!!  :smile-big:


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## Smitty37 (Jun 27, 2013)

Bigj51 said:


> sbwertz said:
> 
> 
> > My carry pen is gunmetal.  It has been in my purse for 3 1/2 years with NO sign of wear.
> ...


I suspect that might be because the Vertex has the rather sharp corners where wear would occur faster than on a rounded piece.  I think I'd stick to a harder finish with that kit also Chrome/Rhodium/Black TI or Gold Tn.


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