# Apprentice Jr Gents



## RDH79 (Aug 9, 2010)

Not sure if this is the place for this but I received my Appentice J Gent kits Saturday. Kits look good but the bushings I got for them are terrible. No Horrible is a better word. The lower barrel bushings wobble in the tubes.  I have a email out to CSUSA. Has anybody bought any of these with the bushings? 
Also have a PM to JohnnyCNC.


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## rjwolfe3 (Aug 9, 2010)

Are these the same as the Jr Gent II, the original Jr Gent, or the Jr Gent ballpoint?


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## bitshird (Aug 9, 2010)

These look more like the original Jr Gents, Almost like a Baron except the nib/grip doesn't seem to be faceted like the Baron.


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## RDH79 (Aug 9, 2010)

I have never seen a JrGent I so I cant tell you.  The only thing I see different is the Apprentice dosesnt have the black plastic coupler that sticks way out.But the coupler has a plastic insert in it. 
I just got off the phone with CSUSA tech and they are checking the bushings. They really havnt had them long enough to see if there were any problems.
Hopefully its just a bad set of bushings I got.


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## stolicky (Aug 9, 2010)

I just saw these this morning.  The look like Barons, just with a round nib, rather than a faceted one.  Even the drill bit sizes are the same as the Baron/Sedona.

I wonder if they are on par with the Berea kits?

Good luck on the bushings.


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## RDH79 (Aug 9, 2010)

Just got a call from the CSUSA tech. There is a problem with the bushings.
So they are going to have a local machine shop make some. Will be about a week I guess instead of a month like he first told me.


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## ed4copies (Aug 10, 2010)

I've only measured one, so this is subject to change over a reasonable population.

The nib and finial are not the same diameter "trim rings".  The design is similar to the Jr. II, in that it slopes upward (larger OD) at the nib.

Metal threads in the cap, plastic threads on both ends.


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## jskeen (Aug 10, 2010)

RDH79 said:


> I have never seen a JrGent I so I cant tell you.  The only thing I see different is the Apprentice dosesnt have the black plastic coupler that sticks way out.But the coupler has a plastic insert in it.





ed4copies said:


> Metal threads in the cap, plastic threads on both ends.



Ok, I'm confused, are you two talking about the same kit?  Both the jr gent 1 and 2 that I have seen have a plastic insert in the cap center band, and a metal coupler that seats through the trim ring and into the body tube, the threads are either black enamel on the 1's or plated on the higher end 2's and black enamel on the lower end 2's.  

Do these have an actual plastic coupler like the old el grande's, or is it black enamel plated brass?


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## ed4copies (Aug 10, 2010)

Thanks James!!

On closer inspection, it is a brass coupler with black coating for the threads.  But the centerband is threaded metal, then chrome plated (I bought only the chrome kits).

I like the looks of this kit in chrome.  

Now, to the REST of the story.  CSUSA kits normally say "Dayacom" or "Taiwan" on each package.   These say nothing.  This leads me to believe CSUSA is experimenting with Chinese manufacture.  I do not consider this a negative, but some of you will.  IF CSUSA has enough muscle to demand the kit be made to rigid specifications, it could perform admirably.  Time will tell.


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## sbell111 (Aug 11, 2010)

Those look to be Rizheng Jr Gent Is, just like the kits that Smitty did the group buy for last month.  Many (if not all) of CSUSA's Apprentice kits are from Rizheng.


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## sbell111 (Aug 11, 2010)

It should be noted that when Rizheng first introduced the JG1s, they had a problem with the bushings/tubes.  No doubt CSUSA is selling an early batch of these kits.


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## RDH79 (Aug 12, 2010)

I do not have a Jr Gent I to compare the new App Jr Gents from CSUSA to. 
But did the JR gent I have plastic threads? The App Jr Gent has metal threads.


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## jskeen (Aug 12, 2010)

From the jg1 I saw at the last Houston meeting I'm pretty sure it had the black epoxy coated metal couplers and the nylon threads in the cap.  According to Ed, the apprentice jg has black epoxy coated brass threads but does have some type of metal threads in the cap as well.  

I also understand that the jg1 is the same diameter at both ends of the body, where the apprentice is larger at the nib end and smaller at the post end.  

Would be really nice if somebody that had a baron, a jg2, a jg1 and an apprentice jg could take some pics for all of us


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## Smitty37 (Aug 12, 2010)

*NO GROUP BUY*



sbell111 said:


> Those look to be Rizheng Jr Gent Is, just like the kits that Smitty did the group buy for last month. Many (if not all) of CSUSA's Apprentice kits are from Rizheng.


 
I have stayed away from this until now because I usually do not comment on my competitors service or their products. But, since my name came up here I need to say a couple of things.

But first:  The sale of jr Gent 1 kits is not a group buy.  Smitty's Pen Works is buying the kits and reselling them to the purchasers from the IAP at a discount to my retail price.  They are sold with my normal warranty and return policy.

2nd.  I also sell the bushings and tubes for the jr Gent 1 and I have tried an number of sets of bushings in a number of sets of tubes on my lathe.  When properly set on my mandrel I have tried moving the tubes to check for "slop" and have not found any, so I'm not convinced CSUSA is getting them from the same source.

Ed.  If you got kits with no "made in XXX"  label, you should be careful about reselling them unless you find out where they are from and label them yourself.  I sold unlabeled for some time but I found it is the responsibility of the importer to make sure they are labeled and I know that at least from my supplier if you don't ask for the label --- you don't get the label.


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## ed4copies (Aug 12, 2010)

Smitty,

I will leave reselling of these to you.  I could not afford to buy a couple thousand and have to take them back, because of quality issues.

They MAY be great--the problem, for me, is they MAY not and Rizheng is unlikely to take them back in thousands, from ME, but I don't sell 35000 of their kits, as you do.

I sincerely wish you luck.


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## ed4copies (Aug 12, 2010)

On a different note, the baron bushings fit the interior dimension.  

The "larger diameter" that you need for the nib is also a size that has been used before--I found a bushing in my stock.  But I have NO IDEA what it was used for in the past----my "old bushings" are not that well organized--sorry!!


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## ed4copies (Aug 12, 2010)

Smitty37 said:


> Ed.  If you got kits with no "made in XXX"  label, *you should be careful about reselling them *unless you find out where they are from and label them yourself.  I sold unlabeled for some time but I found it is the responsibility of the importer to make sure they are labeled and I know that at least from my supplier if you don't ask for the label --- you don't get the label.



I did not buy them to resell.  I bought them so I could remain a source of CORRECT information, to my customers and to keep my posts on the IAP accurate.  That ability is well worth the $200 in kits---to ME.


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## RDH79 (Aug 12, 2010)

Is it possible that CSUSA is having someone else make these other than Rizheng. Or is just allowed to be sold by Rizheng or made by them?Just wondered. I havnt really been in this long enough to really know the manufacturers. I have heard stories about Rizheng and the IAP but thats about it. I just know I made 2 of the Apprentice Jr Gents this morning using bushings from different kits and they turned out nice. Will try to get pics later. Honestly would rather turn pens that try to figure out photography


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## ed4copies (Aug 12, 2010)

ANYTHING is possible!!!  CSUSA certainly has agents in China---so they could locate their own sources.


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## RDH79 (Aug 12, 2010)

Well after turning 2 and getting ready to photograh I seen this. This reminds me why I dont like 24K Hope the chrome I bought holds up.

Ring scratches on the nib and I tried to polish it with ren wax and you can see by the threads the plating is coming off. This is happening to both I made this morning.


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## Smitty37 (Aug 12, 2010)

*caution*



ed4copies said:


> Smitty,
> 
> I will leave reselling of these to you. I could not afford to buy a couple thousand and have to take them back, because of quality issues.
> 
> ...


 
I mentioned that only as a caution regarding labeling Ed


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## Chasper (Aug 12, 2010)

I have credible reason to believe that Rizheng is not the manufacturer of all (if any) of the kits that they sell.  It is not at all out of the question their their source and CSUSA and one and the same.  Also don't ignore the possibility that Dayacom, Rizheng and others are buying castings from the same sources and using various plating services or plating them themselves. 



RDH79 said:


> Is it possible that CSUSA is having someone else make these other than Rizheng. Or is just allowed to be sold by Rizheng or made by them?Just wondered. I havnt really been in this long enough to really know the manufacturers. I have heard stories about Rizheng and the IAP but thats about it. I just know I made 2 of the Apprentice Jr Gents this morning using bushings from different kits and they turned out nice. Will try to get pics later. Honestly would rather turn pens that try to figure out photography


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## Smitty37 (Aug 12, 2010)

*Problem*

The problem described should not be present on the kits that I sold to IAP members.  I believe the thread in the centerband has been changed to plastic (if I understood the less then perfect English correctly).  I believe that is what was done to the "old" Jr. Gent 1 kits based on what I have seen in some other threads.


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## sbell111 (Aug 13, 2010)

Smitty37 said:


> I have stayed away from this until now because I usually do not comment on my competitors service or their products. But, since my name came up here I need to say a couple of things.
> 
> But first:  The sale of jr Gent 1 kits is not a group buy.  Smitty's Pen Works is buying the kits and reselling them to the purchasers from the IAP at a discount to my retail price.  They are sold with my normal warranty and return policy.


It matters not to me whether you call it a group buy or not.  People gave you money to buy them kits through a consolidated order.  While it doesn't fit IAP's definition of a group buy because you add a fee for your running the buy, it's still a group buy in my book.





Smitty37 said:


> 2nd.  I also sell the bushings and tubes for the jr Gent 1 and I have tried an number of sets of bushings in a number of sets of tubes on my lathe.  When properly set on my mandrel I have tried moving the tubes to check for "slop" and have not found any, so I'm not convinced CSUSA is getting them from the same source.


You apparently missed the earlier post that I made related to problems Rizheng was having when they initially introduced the JG1 kit.  It is my belief that CSUSA bought their stock prior to the problem being resolved and you bought yours after.  Happily, I also bought mine after the problem was resolved.


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## sbell111 (Aug 13, 2010)

RDH79 said:


> Well after turning 2 and getting ready to photograh I seen this. This reminds me why I dont like 24K Hope the chrome I bought holds up.
> 
> Ring scratches on the nib and I tried to polish it with ren wax and you can see by the threads the plating is coming off. This is happening to both I made this morning.


Many capped kits (including the original Jr Gent 1 and Jr Gent 2) also have this problem.  I'm pretty sure that a solution has been posted to these forums but I don't remember what it is at this moment.


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## RDH79 (Aug 13, 2010)

Steve  Thanks I done a search and found

The solution has been to trim some of the plastic from the inside top of the threaded insert before you insert it into the cap . 

I dont know if I will try that or send them back. Already have 2 bad ones.


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## Smitty37 (Aug 14, 2010)

*Group buy*



sbell111 said:


> It matters not to me whether you call it a group buy or not. People gave you money to buy them kits through a consolidated order. While it doesn't fit IAP's definition of a group buy because you add a fee for your running the buy, it's still a group buy in my book.You apparently missed the earlier post that I made related to problems Rizheng was having when they initially introduced the JG1 kit. It is my belief that CSUSA bought their stock prior to the problem being resolved and you bought yours after. Happily, I also bought mine after the problem was resolved.


 
I am a business....Smitty's Pen Works....and it matters to me that it was NOT a group buy.  A group buy implies that the coordinator does not intend to make a profit.  I do.  In addition, my standard return policy is in force which would not be the case on a group buy.  I do not and will never coordinate a group buy although I might participate in one.


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## Chasper (Aug 14, 2010)

I stayed out of the discussion about the CSUSA Apprentice Jr. Gent because I haven't examined the kit, but I agree with you that it does look like the Rizheng Jr. Gent.  I bought a few hundred of the Rizheng kit when they were new and they did have a problem, the centerband was too large for the tube.  Rizheng corrected the problem by supplying replacement centerbands that had been turned down to a smaller diameter.  Actually they were then too small, but at least they could be glued into the tube.

Since then Rizheng went out of stock on the kit, then back in stock when they received a new shipment, and they introduced a fountain pen version of the kit.  I recently got in an order from the new stock including the fountain pens.  The centerbands on this new order have been turned down to a smaller diameter, they were not cast smaller, the lathe marks are still on the inserted part of the bands, just as they were on the corrected centerbands that they sent in response to complaints about the original order. 

The problem with the Rizheng Jr Gent was never with the bushings not fitting properly.  I bought 50 sets of bushings, I tested them myself and sold most of them, no problems or complaints.  The problem found with the CSUSA version related to the bushings not fitting.  My guess is that they did not purchase their bushings from Rizheng, they had them made somewhere else and the size was not right.

To the best of my knowledge, Rizheng does not make the Jr. Gent kits or bushings, they buy them from another source, same as CSUSA does.  Chances are that they are both going to yet another source(s) for bushings.


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## sbell111 (Aug 16, 2010)

Smitty37 said:


> I am a business....Smitty's Pen Works....and it matters to me that it was NOT a group buy.  A group buy implies that the coordinator does not intend to make a profit.  I do.  In addition, my standard return policy is in force which would not be the case on a group buy.  I do not and will never coordinate a group buy although I might participate in one.


I honestly believe that you are looking for arguments where none exist.


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## cschimmel (Sep 1, 2010)

So would you guys that bought these kits buy more.   I want to order but don't want to much trouble.


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