# Cheers & Jeers Forum



## jeff (Oct 26, 2012)

Several members have suggested that we should limit threads in the Cheers & Jeers Forum to just the original post. In other words, no discussion. 

There has been a fair amount of back and forth over some Jeers, with opinions being challenged and arguments ensuing in some cases.  Should we limit the threads to just the first post, let them stand as individual opinions, and let readers judge their validity? 

Would we lose some beneficial discussions or would we get more honest opinions?

Vote and post!! Thanks!


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## nativewooder (Oct 26, 2012)

Original post.  Some people will argue with a sign post!:biggrin:


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## 1dweeb (Oct 26, 2012)

Leave it alone. You don't have to read it. Let them vent.


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## Haynie (Oct 26, 2012)

nativewooder said:


> Original post.  Some people will argue with a sign post!:biggrin:



And lose.

I say original only.  Maybe if the problem gets resolved then the originator can have the jeer retracted by one of you folks who see all control all


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## srf1114 (Oct 26, 2012)

I say leave it, let people say their  piece.  People can always just not read it.  otherwise you give people cart blanc to say what ever they want with no chance for rebuttal.  People should  exercise common etiquette though.


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## Andrew_K99 (Oct 26, 2012)

I say get rid of it, or limit it somehow.  I don't need to see another jeer about PSI's slow shipping or some of the great vendors fast shipping.  IMO shipping speed shouldn't be a justified cheer/jeer but it makes up a good chunk of them.

AK


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## jimm1 (Oct 26, 2012)

Leave it alone. I like reading some of the crazy sounding banter.


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## kronewi (Oct 26, 2012)

I say leave the discussion alone, but once the moderator of that section thinks the responses are not "productive", lock down that post and eliminate the "unproductive" post. Then send the poster a warning PM. 

Maybe that would help curb the "inflamatory" comments. (Some things just don't need to be said!)


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## edicehouse (Oct 26, 2012)

If someone had a bad experience with a vender, and I have only had good service, it is an unservice to not say you had good experience.


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## beck3906 (Oct 26, 2012)

I also get tired of reading about how quickly a vendor ships.  I get the point.  I also order with enough lead time to not worry about how long it takes.


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## toddlajoie (Oct 26, 2012)

kronewi said:


> I say leave the discussion alone, but once the  moderator of that section thinks the responses are not "productive",  lock down that post and eliminate the "unproductive" post. Then send the  poster a warning PM.
> 
> Maybe that would help curb the "inflamatory" comments. (Some things just don't need to be said!)


 


edicehouse said:


> If someone had a bad experience with a vender,  and I have only had good service, it is an unservice to not say you had  good experience.



+1 on these 2 comments, tho it may need to be decided based on how much moderation is needed to keep things in balance. Any section that takes a lot of effort to moderate is probably not productive to the community, but it is valued to have opposing experiences represented. 

It's almost too bad you could not have a single thread per vendor, so people looking for others experience with a vendor could go to a single place and read it all....


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## jeff (Oct 26, 2012)

toddlajoie said:


> kronewi said:
> 
> 
> > I say leave the discussion alone, but once the  moderator of that section thinks the responses are not "productive",  lock down that post and eliminate the "unproductive" post. Then send the  poster a warning PM.
> ...



Todd, I have considered that! The only issue is technical - there's no way to prevent someone from posting only once in a thread.


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## Texatdurango (Oct 26, 2012)

jeff said:


> Several members have suggested that we should limit threads in the Cheers & Jeers Forum to just the original post. In other words, no discussion.
> 
> There has been a fair amount of back and forth over some Jeers, with opinions being challenged and arguments ensuing in some cases.  Should we limit the threads to just the first post, let them stand as individual opinions, and let readers judge their validity?
> 
> ...


I logged into the forum a few times when it first got started a year or so ago and saw nothing of value, then had a look again this evening to see if anything had changed.

Nothing has changed and I'm really surprised that anyone even reads the forum!  Disgruntled members venting about something that should be handled by a phone call to the vendor they are griping about.  

Where is the value in hearing 50 posts where vendor X has lousy shipping times then reading another 50 posts where the same vendor has excellent shipping times?  One post knocks a vendor, another praises them.  After a period of time, it all evens out so what's the purpose?

If you decide to keep the forum and allow only the original post to stand with no follow on posts then you will have people writing anything they want, as often as they want, factual or not, fair or not, biased or not without fear of being corrected or held accountable, not a good thing as far as I'm concerned.

Since this is a pen turning forum, why not focus on pen turning (there's plenty to keep us occupied) and let the eCommerce take care of itself, on it's own!  If there is a* real need* for members to be alerted about a *SERIOUS* situation with a vendor, we can do like we always did before the cheers and jeers forum..... put a post in the casual conversation forum and be done with it!


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## jttheclockman (Oct 26, 2012)

I never did like that forum. To me it makes no sense. One person says good things about a company and then another says bad things about the same company. Who cares???  What did you learn from both posts. Nothing. Tired of reading how this person got their items faster than someone else. Alot of factors go into that process. If you have a bad experience from a vendor don't order from them again. Plain and simple. If a vendor was outrageously bad I am sure it would be blown up here. So I voted get rid of it. I think maybe a poll should be made to find something better to take its place.


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## jttheclockman (Oct 26, 2012)

Nopw that is scary George:biggrin: Check the times.


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## mredburn (Oct 26, 2012)

Getting rid of the cheer and jeers forum just means they will post in the casual conversation forum


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## Texatdurango (Oct 26, 2012)

mredburn said:


> Getting rid of the cheer and jeers forum just means they will post in the casual conversation forum


I disagree to a point.  Before the cheers and jeers forum people did post the occasional rant or vent about a vendor they are having a problem with but we never saw the volume that takes place in the cheers and jeers.  

Have you read some of the posts?  You have people starting a thread praising a vendor because their mailman got their package to them 15 minutes and 12 seconds faster than the last time they ordered something!

Then there is the constant complaining about problems with vendors.... good grief, don't these people have telephones so they can take care of business in a matter of minutes rather than hiding behind email accounts and venting on a web forum?

I think if we did away with the "open invitation to vent" we would see the numbers of posts drop dramatically.


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## mredburn (Oct 26, 2012)

I admit I rarely read those threads anymore.  I have my sources of venders and use them in the order I prefer. I order in advance so I maintain my stock levels.  I barely skim over the thread titles. Although I buy very little of the things most members here do.


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## 76winger (Oct 27, 2012)

I'm OK with allowing the discussion as it gives everyone the opportunity to respond with their past experiences form said vendor. 

Everyone has different expectations and occasionally does get unusually good or bad experiences. Without direct responses from the vendors in question, I think supporting and/or opposing experiences gives the readers a better overall view.


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## jttheclockman (Oct 27, 2012)

76winger said:


> I'm OK with allowing the discussion as it gives everyone the opportunity to respond with their past experiences form said vendor.
> 
> Everyone has different expectations and occasionally does get unusually good or bad experiences. Without direct responses from the vendors in question, I think supporting and/or opposing experiences gives the readers a better overall view.


 
I really don't see how. Your experience may be different than mine for various reasons. This is no reason to come here and bash a vendor. Just like making pens, everyone likes and dislikes are different. 

Like I said if a vendor becomes truely outrageous it will be well known in the pen world as it was with Steebar and even then there were good reviews at times. 

I personally do not read that fourum and think it is a waste of space and still think there is has to be a better topic to put in its place. Just an opinion.


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## Gilrock (Oct 27, 2012)

I was hoping this was a vote to eliminate the Cheers and Jeers forum. Sure they may post in Casual Conversation but I tend to ignore that forum as well unless a title looks really interesting.  Oooo...I just noticed that is one of the voting options.


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## MartinPens (Oct 27, 2012)

Repetitive active posts about a vendor (cheer or jeer) can be helpful to me. The ensuing conversations..... Not worth reading most of the time. My vote is to keep it and only allow the original post. It's a good "heads up.". Never know when a new issue will arise.  I wouldn't lose any sleep if it disappeared all together.

Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner


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## its_virgil (Oct 27, 2012)

I could not vote because my choice is not on the ballot. I feel like a disenfranchised citizen but I  do have a solution: write in candidate so my vote goes to: Get rid of it.

I did a quick survey (I don't read that forum) and the cheers to jeers ratio seems to be 10 to 1 and mostly repeats. Those who need that info will get it somewhere. So, maybe leaving it there and out of the other forums may be a good idea. Now I seem to be fence rider.

Do a good turn daily!
Don


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## kronewi (Oct 27, 2012)

jttheclockman said:


> 76winger said:
> 
> 
> > I'm OK with allowing the discussion as it gives everyone the opportunity to respond with their past experiences form said vendor.
> ...


 
I think that this theory of everyone knowing about a vendor is not completely true. I have been doing this for at least 3 years now and I have never heard of Steebar. Also, what of those even newer to pen making which, not only does not know which vendors are good or bad, they do not know the vendors! I visit that forum from time to time and see who people are getting good products and service from and then check them out myself. Some of these vendors I have never heard of until they are posted in the Cheers and Jeers section.

Kevin


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## kronewi (Oct 27, 2012)

jeff said:


> toddlajoie said:
> 
> 
> > kronewi said:
> ...


 
Jeff, I am not sure that is what Todd meant. I think he was looking more at 1 thread for CSUSA, 1 thread for Penn State, etc... and all comments, good or bad go under that vendor. I am just not sure how you would control people adding an additional post for a vendor. If you limit the vendors to only those you know about, how would someone add a vendor that is new to you? No sure on that point. Not sure how many would take that time to PM you and ask you to add a new vendor to the forum so they can make comments on them...

Kevin


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## Texatdurango (Oct 27, 2012)

kronewi said:


> ......I think that this theory of everyone knowing about a vendor is not completely true. I have been doing this for at least 3 years now and I have never heard of Steebar. Also, what of those even newer to pen making which, not only does not know which vendors are good or bad, they do not know the vendors! *I visit that forum from time to time and see who people are getting good products and service from* and then check them out myself. Some of these vendors I have never heard of until they are posted in the Cheers and Jeers section.
> 
> Kevin


Kevin, If you want to find out who the vendors are, what they are selling and even when their next shipments of blanks are arriving, all you have to do is keep your eye on the SOYP forum! :wink:

From what I can see, quite a few of the cheers in the cheers and jeers forum for the most part, are basically doing the same thing.  A member posts how great vendor X is then vendor X replies, thanking him for his comments then throws in a little tidbit, usually a heads up that another shipment is coming in soon so stay tuned or other such commercials.  

It's all just a duplication of effort, thus a waste of bandwidth.


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## wiset1 (Oct 27, 2012)

People will always need a place to vent their issues and I feel it's not doing any harm being there, I mean come on...if you enter that hyperlink you know exactly what you're going there for.

It can also act as a tool for newcomers who just don't know where to go for both quality product and service.  It's honest, unsolicited feedback from customers giving their experiences.  Regardless of how we want to take it as viewers it's a very real snapshot of how THAT individual felt about the service or product and that CAN help others.

My vote is to keep it for that reason.  People don't have to go there if they don't want.


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## skiprat (Oct 27, 2012)

I originally voted to just bin it, but in retrospect I think it should stay. That way most of the 'stuff' will be kept in one place that is easy to ignore. If it's binned, then the 'stuff' will just be spread even more so in the other forums.


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## Jjartwood (Oct 27, 2012)

Can the post be self terminating after a certain time?
It would be of little help if a problem was addressed and cleared but the complaint stayed
on the thread.
Weather the problem be real or imagined mixing it with a million other post makes it become white noise, and as stated in this thread of little or no use other than having a place for a bi>>>fest.
JMO
Mark


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## jttheclockman (Oct 27, 2012)

kronewi said:


> jttheclockman said:
> 
> 
> > 76winger said:
> ...


 

Kevin being here 3 years doesn't make you such a newbie or at least I hope not. I have seen it over and over on this site, newbies do not use the search feature here. Simple to do. Also right on the HOME PAGE in dark blue is a list of vendors that have been a part of this orginization for quite some time. If they are not in good standing they would have been removed. Taking ones word in a forum about what that person's experience is or was for a particular vendor is just words. You won't know how you are treated unless you take the plunge. 

As far as Steebar, you did not do your homework when you started pen making. Google penmaking and their web site will come up. Do a search of Steebar and you will read the results or findings here.


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## TellicoTurning (Oct 28, 2012)

I voted to get rid of the thread... what good doe it really do to post a problem that the vendor may never see... if you have a problem with the vendor, talk to them, not to the choir.


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## maxwell_smart007 (Oct 28, 2012)

One of the issues with the Cheers and Jeers section of the forum is that it was not used as intended.  The intention was for people to post jeers only when all other forms of recourse were exhausted, and the vendor was unwilling to resolve their issues. 

A jeer should not be that the shipping is slow, or the vendor didn't respond to email immediately, or that the vendor is too expensive, or a myriad of other non-jeer 'complaints'...

If people would stop posting that PSI is slow to ship, I think there would be less objection to this area of the forum, wouldn't there?


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## TerryDowning (Oct 29, 2012)

I say dump it.  If you're pleased or displeased take the time to write up an actual review.


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## KenV (Oct 29, 2012)

Reading through this, looks like  the Meyers/Briggs ISTJs are well represented.  And especially the "TJ".

The cheers and jeers is more about those who have "F" and "P" in the preferences.  This is social media and needs to recognize those who need a place to express themself.


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## Gilrock (Oct 29, 2012)

FYI I recently discovered a forum feature that I'm using. If you goto your profile and select "Edit Options" and scroll to the bottom you can select forums you would like to Exclude. Then if you like to use the "New Posts" feature you will not be bothered by posts in those sections. That is until the moderators don't follow their own setup and post a Poll in the Casual Conversation section when theres a perfectly good Polls and Surveys forum...lol.


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## Mike D (Oct 29, 2012)

I think as long as people remain respectful and aren't just slandering someone or their business then it should remain. But as said before if you have a bad experience with someone or business and the issue is resolved then come back to your post and state the outcome. It's the fair thing to do. Feed back good or bad is a good thing and I suspect most retailers if they are truly interested in customer service will use it constructively and they should be allowed to respond when necessary.


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## Rick P (Oct 29, 2012)

nativewooder said:


> Original post. Some people will argue with a sign post!:biggrin:


 
No I wont!


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## Brooks803 (Oct 29, 2012)

I say keep it and do not allow additional posts. That would keep the pile ons from happening. I believe that each member is allowed 1 jeer/cheer per vendor each year? If that's the case, maybe bump it up to 2 or 3 and have a provision stating it cannot be about the same senario, only new occurrences. 

Besides, IAP is for the turners. Not the sellers.

I know we've seen all the threads about slow shipping from a certain vendor. We also know that the bigger vendors monitor this site. Let them see that people have issues with them. It could help them become better as a business which could cut down the number of jeer posts.


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## Katya (Oct 29, 2012)

I still think of myself as a relatively new turner, and let me tell you I paid very close attention to the "cheers and jeers" section before sending in my first order to a vendor that was new to me.  I didn't know where else to get information from actual users... even though I knew I wasn't getting perfectly unbiased information.

I say keep the forum as it is (okay, some tinkering is fine), so that we a)know which vendors do or don't cause problems, b) we get a variety of opinions and c) the vendors KNOW we're talking together and that they can't get away with much!

I don't read the forum much anymore, but I do keep an eye on it and I'd definitely recommend it to a new turner looking for opinions- but I'd also tell her to use the "Vendors" tab for trusted stores.
Cheers
Catherine


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## Smitty37 (Oct 30, 2012)

I say limit to the original post, there is no good reason (in my opinion) for anyone to respond.  I know that if I am saying something nice or not so nice about a vendor's service to me, I really don't care what anyone else's opinion is.  As far as getting tired of similar posts - welcome to the world.  In a forum called "cheers and jeers" that is exactly what you should expect - hopefully with more vendors getting cheers than jeers.


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## LagniappeRob (Oct 30, 2012)

I really don't understand why people are so set against the C&J forum... Seriously, if you don't want to see it, don't read it. As pointed out, you can even block it from showing up in the new posts feature. Why should others have to do without because you don't want to see it? I can think of 3 vendors that are active here that have gotten business from me (actually my primary suppliers now) directly because of that forum. 

And no, I don't see SOYP as a viable replacement for that. I don't go surfing that forum looking for places to buy products from (well not usually anyway - I did buy a pen from Jjartwood because of a post there - but not pen components). I don't want to just know about what people are making, I want to know about the service they receive too.  

And yes sometimes shipping times matter... I want to hear about that too. It affects how much "stock" we have to carry, our schedule, or our profit if we have to pay extra for "rush processing" or air shipping because a vendor's normal method is too slow.  Without C&J, where am I supposed to go to know what to expect from a vendor I've never used, or to tell if my experience was exceptional or the norm?  

I just don't get why people are so vocal about suppressing others' opinions...


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## plano_harry (Oct 30, 2012)

I am with Rick -- some vendors ship too fast.  I often want to add something I forgot, but too late - it already shipped!! :tongue:

Now, what were we talking about...



beck3906 said:


> I also get tired of reading about how quickly a vendor ships.  I get the point.  I also order with enough lead time to not worry about how long it takes.


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## jttheclockman (Nov 5, 2012)

When will this decision be made???


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## Donovan (Nov 6, 2012)

The cheer and jeer should be used as a last resort when all ells has failed, not when your coffee is 15 minutes late. If you have a problem take it up with the vendor. I am sure that they wont be in business if they ignore all the complaints. Most of us has been spoil t with good service and wen we get any small hick up we post it on the net instead of picking up the phone and sorting it out in person. 
Donovan


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## jeff (Nov 6, 2012)

jttheclockman said:


> When will this decision be made???



I didn't actually say a decision would be made. I just wanted to collect some data. That said, even doing nothing with the data is a decision :biggrin:

I'm going to discuss this with the managers. However, based on the poll result to keep discussion, and the fact that anyone can hide the forum from their "Get New Posts" feed (by going to the bottom of their options page), my guess is that we'll leave it as-is. 

As long as it provides some value to some members, and doesn't do any harm, and is easily ignored by those who don't like it, keeping it seems like the reasonable solution.


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## CharlesJohnson (Nov 6, 2012)

I have seen quite a few things explained here.This is why I can,t resist the complaint threads.Sure it bothers me to see a suppler treated like that when not given good chance to deal with problems/perceived problems.But I also see the kindness of other fellow members trying to help the poster,and the rest of us to understand.And to get help when we need it.Obvious,we see the supplers speak up pretty soon.I'm also always reminded that Our great in house supplers are making good efforts to listen to our problems and help "us" in resolving them.I'm also sure I'm not the only one that has troubles with expressing myself.Peaple are always very kind in helping in these times.Thanks to all of you .I even learn from these threads.


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## OKLAHOMAN (Dec 20, 2012)

Andrew I couldn't agree more, I have no idea how to make the postal service ship faster or slower so don't see why I or any other vendor should have a cheer saying WOW!!! ordered on Monday shipped and received by Thursday, all we did was pack it ,the Postal service delivered it in two days not me or any other vendor. I and all the other vendors appreciate   cheers for good service and thank all for the cheers but it's the postal service that gets it to you with-in a day or two of us 
shipping it seems like 25% of all cheers are for receiving an order quickly.With the exception of PSI I think 99% of all orders received to our vendors are shipped with-in 24 hours, so I thank our much critizied postal service for their quick shipping.  





Andrew_K99 said:


> I say get rid of it, or limit it somehow.  I don't need to see another jeer about PSI's slow shipping or some of the great vendors fast shipping.  IMO shipping speed shouldn't be a justified cheer/jeer but it makes up a good chunk of them.
> 
> AK


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