# Usable Grit Comparison Chart



## Larry in Harrow (Dec 15, 2009)

I find most charts of this type too complex to be useful. After a thread on Penturner's Paradise I compiled a chart for all the abrasives I use to sand and finish pen barrels. The data was gleaned from several charts available on the web and from this forum. If there are any errors please let me know and I'll correct the PDF file. However most of the data agrees with my experiences. I did find that I was overlapping (even going backwards a little) when I was switching from wet/dry to MM papers so the exercise saved me a few steps. Most interesting is where the Beall compounds fit into the overall scheme. Hope you find this useful.

View attachment Abrasive-Grits.pdf


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## rjwolfe3 (Dec 15, 2009)

Woot thank you very much!


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## KenBrasier (Dec 15, 2009)

Larry, nice chart, great information................. Thanks!


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## GoodTurns (Dec 15, 2009)

very useful stuff there, Larry.  Thanks

Anyone know what the comparitive grits would be for the novus 2 and 3 scratch removers would be?


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## Jim15 (Dec 15, 2009)

Thanks Larry.


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## Manny (Dec 15, 2009)

Wow I didn't know White diamond was between 4K and 6K micromesh. I usally go all the way up to 12K and then buff with white Diamond. Looks like a few steps back in grits. I wonder if moving from 12k to green would be better. 

Or would it be just as good to just stop at 4K and then buff with white diamond?

humm......

Thanks for the info
Manny


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## JerrySambrook (Dec 15, 2009)

Sorry to ask this, but,

What is the actual name for green compound?

Jerry


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## Larry in Harrow (Dec 15, 2009)

JerrySambrook said:


> Sorry to ask this, but,
> 
> What is the actual name for green compound?
> 
> Jerry


 
Hi Jerry,
The green compound I use is chromium oxide.


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## dustmaker (Dec 15, 2009)

Thanks for this Larry.  You've answered some questions I've had, like where white diamond sits in relation to MM grades.

But does anyone know about the grit in plastic polish, specifically HUT Ultra Gloss?


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## skiprat (Dec 15, 2009)

Many thanks for that list Larry. I'm sure I'm not the only one that just seen that I've been going 'backwards' too sometimes:redface:  

Do you know if the values alter if used 'wet'? I frequently use 2K W/Dry paper 'wet' to polish steel and I also use auto polish ( no idea what micron it is) and keep it wet with water to stop the polish going dry and powdery while polishing plastics. 
I'm actually not sure *how* water benifits, whether it simply lubricates the paper or just keeps the paper clean by washing out the waste?


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## ed4copies (Dec 15, 2009)

Larry, that is GREAT information, thank-you!!

Observation:  When you use the white diamond, you have changed direction.  Everything done on the lathe goes in the radial direction, buffing goes closer to parallel to the mandrel.  The "cross pattern" buffing will improve your visual shine more than continuing in the radial direction--  This is all my personal "reflection" on the pens I have made and COULD BE wrong.

But, it has sold a lot of resin pens!!!


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## jleiwig (Dec 15, 2009)

ed4copies said:


> Larry, that is GREAT information, thank-you!!
> 
> Observation: When you use the white diamond, you have changed direction. Everything done on the lathe goes in the radial direction, buffing goes closer to parallel to the mandrel. The "cross pattern" buffing will improve your visual shine more than continuing in the radial direction-- This is all my personal "reflection" on the pens I have made and COULD BE wrong.
> 
> But, it has sold a lot of resin pens!!!


 
Aren't they really the same though?  On a lathe,  the pen is spinning and I'm holding the buffing material.  On the buffer I'm holding the pen and the buff material is spinning.  

Unless your talking about holding a pen vertically..then I could almost see what your saying as true. But that's when my stuff becomes a mini rocket and usually shatters against a wall in a million pieces.


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## randyrls (Dec 15, 2009)

ed4copies said:


> Observation:  When you use the white diamond, you have changed direction.  Everything done on the lathe goes in the radial direction, buffing goes closer to parallel to the mandrel.  The "cross pattern" buffing will improve your visual shine more than continuing in the radial direction--  This is all my personal "reflection" on the pens I have made and COULD BE wrong.
> 
> But, it has sold a lot of resin pens!!!



Indeed Ed!   My sanding/polishing technique is to always sand power on, and then again lengthwise power off.  I do this with every grit I use.  Only takes a few seconds, but if I don't do this, I get circular scratches in the finish.

Harry;  Thanks for the post.  It confirms my observations that I use wet/dry paper up to 2000 and then switch to 4000 MM


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## Marc Phillips (Dec 15, 2009)

Thanks Larry... excellent information!

I find that I am going from 600 grit to the Tripoli is skipping a few grits... might explain the occasional problems I guess...

I will take it to 3200 MM now, then the Tripoli


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## Larry in Harrow (Dec 15, 2009)

randyrls said:


> Harry; Thanks for the post. It confirms my observations that I use wet/dry paper up to 2000 and then switch to 4000 MM


 
Your welcome Sandy.:biggrin:


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## ed4copies (Dec 15, 2009)

jleiwig said:


> Aren't they really the same though?  On a lathe,  the pen is spinning and I'm holding the buffing material.  On the buffer I'm holding the pen and the buff material is spinning.
> 
> Unless your talking about holding a pen vertically..then I could almost see what your saying as true. But that's when my stuff becomes a mini rocket and usually shatters against a wall in a million pieces.



I take the turned blanks off of the lathe and put them on a wood dowel that is turned to match their ID.  So, I am buffing parallel (actually about 30 degrees off parallel) to the mandrel.  ACROSS the sanding I have done on the lathe.

This wood dowel is designed so I can hold both ends and have the blank in the middle------ I launched enough blanks in my career, this method eliminates that problem.


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## Manny (Dec 15, 2009)

http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=40221&highlight=novus+micron
 
Some Data pulled from this thread 

Novus 2 - 1200 grit
Micro-mesh gloss = 14,000 = 1 *micron* 
Hut Ultra-Gloss = less than 1 *micron*
** 
** 
*Great read from the link*
http://www.aspipes.org/faq/faq/ASP_Buffing_Polishing_FAQ.pdf

Manny


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## GoodTurns (Dec 15, 2009)

Manny said:


> Novus 2 - 1200 grit



makes sense...I have been MM'ing my plastics to 3200 then switching to the juice to finish...guess I got lucky and picked the right spot!


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## Larry in Harrow (Dec 15, 2009)

Manny said:


> http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=40221&highlight=novus+micron
> 
> Some Data pulled from this thread
> 
> ...


 
Thanks Manny, I've added this info to the PDF file.  The Novus 2 didn't specify which system they use so I used the ANSI standard mesh size for 1200 grit, this may or may not be right.


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## Monty (Dec 15, 2009)

I'm getting "Invalid Attachment specified"


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## Larry in Harrow (Dec 15, 2009)

Monty said:


> I'm getting "Invalid Attachment specified"


 
I just tried it and it worked.  Anybody else having the problem?


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## Manny (Dec 15, 2009)

Monty said:


> I'm getting "Invalid Attachment specified"


 

Mannie
On my links or the link for the chart?


Manny


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## Monty (Dec 15, 2009)

It was when I clicked on Abrasive-Grits.pdf but it works now.


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## Manny (Dec 15, 2009)

Monty said:


> It was when I clicked on Abrasive-Grits.pdf but it works now.


 

I bet you click it when he was adding the new info

Manny


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## Marc Phillips (Dec 15, 2009)

I wonder where the wax wheel on the Beall fits in here?.... gotta be some abrasiveness... a little... maybe?


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## Manny (Dec 15, 2009)

Marc Phillips said:


> I wonder where the wax wheel on the Beall fits in here?.... gotta be some abrasiveness... a little... maybe?



If you are referring to the carnauba wax in the buffing wheel set. I believe that is not an abrasive at all but a coating to protect the wood. 


Someone correct me if I am wrong here.


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## writestuff (Dec 18, 2009)

*GREAT INFO, GREAT POSTs!*

As I have stated here brfore, I use  "autobody polish" as a final buff after mm.  Don't know where it stands  on the grit chart but to my eye the pen looks better.  I have been wondering about the green stuff as I have a small container of it.  Also what about RED rouge?  applied after white diamond to metal, it makes a far more intense shine.  Do not use it on bare wood tho. 
WS (Bob)


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## Daniel (Dec 18, 2009)

Nice chart Larrry, I very good way to put some order to all of it. Do be warned though that it does not show the entire story. but it is a very good way to keep products in order and figure out if you should buff with that compound before or after using Micro Mesh XX or whatever. I would caution people to watch for diffferences in sanding polishing results any time you switch from one product to another. just as an example. Micro mesh may only take a few second per grit to acomplish its best results. but if you then switch to using buffing compounds it may take longer for each compound to do it's best work. heat may build up faster. smudges or other marks be start getting introduced etc. in other words different products work differently for a lot of reasons other than what Micron size they are. What material they are made out of has a lot to do with it and what that material is attached to also has a huge effect. switch from a cloth back carbon sandpaper to a paper back aluminum oxide one even if it is the correct grit progression, is not going to be a real good idea and results could very well be pretty poor. I jsut forsee the day somneone will be complaining that the chart shows. Norton 3X as such and such and Micro Mesh as such and such and the beall compound as such and such so I used those three in that order and the polish does not look anything like when I just Micro Mesh the whole thing.


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## dustmaker (Dec 18, 2009)

Daniel said:


> Nice chart Larrry, I very good way to put some order to all of it. Do be warned though that it does not show the entire story. but it is a very good way to keep products in order and figure out if you should buff with that compound before or after using Micro Mesh XX or whatever. I would caution people to watch for diffferences in sanding polishing results any time you switch from one product to another. just as an example. Micro mesh may only take a few second per grit to acomplish its best results. but if you then switch to using buffing compounds it may take longer for each compound to do it's best work. heat may build up faster. smudges or other marks be start getting introduced etc. in other words different products work differently for a lot of reasons other than what Micron size they are. What material they are made out of has a lot to do with it and what that material is attached to also has a huge effect. switch from a cloth back carbon sandpaper to a paper back aluminum oxide one even if it is the correct grit progression, is not going to be a real good idea and results could very well be pretty poor. I jsut forsee the day somneone will be complaining that the chart shows. Norton 3X as such and such and Micro Mesh as such and such and the beall compound as such and such so I used those three in that order and the polish does not look anything like when I just Micro Mesh the whole thing.



Good points, Daniel.  I am also wondering if buffing material and buffer speed, and pressure have any bearing on the results.  I know from experience I can introduce scratches with Tripoli if I am too aggressive, regardless of where I am at in the grit cycle.


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## Larry in Harrow (Dec 18, 2009)

You guys are correct.  The "nut behind the wheel" is still a critical component.  Numerical data is only a guide.  Use it as you will.


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## gketell (Dec 18, 2009)

I did one a while ago.  Here it is again.






Between the two I think we covered most everything.

Someone asked about the green buffing material.  The problem I found is that there are several different "green" and "red" and "white" compounds and each is different.  There is no way to say that "color-XX" is this micron.


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