# Carbide insert???



## jttheclockman (Jan 12, 2015)

Hello all

It has been some time since i have asked a question here but since I have been visiting more in the past month because I have little to do basically. My shop time is not available yet due to health issues. But with that said I have read a few posts here about carbide inserts and those sources and things. Also the vast range of hobbiests and careers here this seemed the best place to ask this.

My question is going to be more technical and would appreciate those that have first hand knowledge or sources that would be pertain-able for me to research. I have an easy wood tool and have been using carbide cutters for quite some time to basically turn my aluminum and other nonferrous metal pens. I had gotten the cutters from a scroller on another forum many many years ago. The forum does not exist any more and I have no contact with this person. 

While I am waiting to rejoin my friends in my workshop I thought i would leave no stone unturned when it comes to carbide cutters. I know there are many many different formulas and make-ups of carbide when it comes to cutting and an example of that is saw blades. My quest here today is to find a cutter that is suitable for what I do and that is turn metal such as copper, brass and aluminum to name a few.  I have used so called wood cutters to turn the metals but I feel I am missing out on some true turning of these metals. 

So I put forth the question does anyone have a source for cutters that can do what I am seeking and if so what type cutters am I looking for???  What makes them different than wood cutters???  Do they have a chip breaker designed in the cutter??  Not worried about a tool for them. I can either make it or buy it. If you are a person that works with metals such as i spoke of, you would be the person I would be more interested in talking to.  Or if you have a site that you think may be of interest to me please post it here or you can PM me with any info. Thanks in advance.


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## redneckmedic (Jan 12, 2015)

I don't know much about nonferrous turning,  which seems to be the most concerning variable in your question.  However most folks that I know of on here buy from an IAP local hero ... Captain Eddie!

Big Guy Productions -  

HTH RNM


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## designer (Jan 12, 2015)

Take one of your inserts to your local shop supply house that sells to shops.  Ask them to match it up to an insert that will work for the materials you want to turn.  Major carbide insert manufacturers have thick catalogs of inserts.  Just ask them and they will help.  You may need to buy a box of 10 would be the only catch.


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## LarryDNJR (Jan 12, 2015)

I use these for my Carbide tool.  Bought 1 box few years back and has lasted me a while.

Byrd Carbide Inserts for Shelix Heads


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## wyone (Jan 12, 2015)

I also use the Byrd Carbide inserts, but bought mine from www.globaltooling.net  It says they are out of stock right now, but I am sure they will be back in stock soon.  And $26.10 for a box of 10, how could you go wrong?


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## George417 (Jan 12, 2015)

redneckmedic said:


> I don't know much about nonferrous turning,  which seems to be the most concerning variable in your question.  However most folks that I know of on here buy from an IAP local hero ... Captain Eddie!
> 
> Big Guy Productions - *
> 
> HTH RNM




I'll second that


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## BayouPenturner (Jan 12, 2015)

I also buy frm Capt Eddie.  Please be patient he is ill but all orders are being filled.  Use you calipers to know the dimensions when ordering.


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## Curly (Jan 12, 2015)

Chip breakers on cutters only work when you can take the feeds, speeds and  depth of cuts they are designed for. You will never be able to take advantage of those features with a hand held tool. Metal inserts are for the most part, never as sharp as ones used for wood.


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## jttheclockman (Jan 12, 2015)

I thank all for the links and the thoughts but as I said I was not looking for those that sell wood cutters and that is what Capt Eddie does. As I also said i use cutters like that and have success with them and possibly will continue using them (you can look in my album for proof and I have shown my black acrylic and aluminum series here many times) but there are 100's different type  cutters out there and I do believe there is a cutter that is made specifically for use of the materials I described. But being so many I am flying blind and they are not cheap. I will probably post this question around on a few other sites and see if something shakes loose. If i ever do lock onto something I will be sure to make note of it here. 

By the way not all carbide cutters even for wood are the same. Just as in tool grinds so goes carbide cutters. Angle of grind and material makeup play big rolls in what they are designed for. How that tool is presented to the work piece is also a key. 

Thanks again.


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## Wildman (Jan 13, 2015)

Not sure why cannot use traditional turning tools for cutting aluminum, brass, copper, etc.  If must have a carbide insert use what is available to woodturner’s already from your favorite vendor. 

If need absolute best carbide insert perhaps could plug in needs & wants here and let us know what you come up with.


Turning Formula Calculator - calculates automatically for surface feet per minute (SFM), revolutions per minute (RPM), inches per revolution feed rates, inches per minute feed rates, and cubic inches per minute metal removal rate

If go to their insert page will find optimum insert for cutting just about any material.  Hope you are up to very arduous task clicking on various inserts, especially when consider many of these cutters designed for specific holders, machines, and feed rate. 

Categories

These part numbers might be a winner or maybe not! 

CPMH2.51.50.5 KPD001 
Product ID: KY TBR01871


Part Number: CPGW21505FST KD1400 
Product ID: KEN 3659968
Sold in packs of: 1

Manufacturer: KENNAMETAL
Sale Price $85.10 $76.59
(Savings: $8.51)


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## Nikitas (Jan 13, 2015)

The standard carbide inserts for aluminum and brass are designed to use in a metal lathe. Like an earlier post you will not get the depth of cut and feed rate on a handheld tool...The ones we use are not designed to take a cut like that...
Brian


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## lwalper (Jan 13, 2015)

LarryDNJR said:


> I use these for my Carbide tool.  Bought 1 box few years back and has lasted me a while.
> 
> Byrd Carbide Inserts for Shelix Heads



That price is hard to argue with.


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## jttheclockman (Jan 13, 2015)

Curly said:


> Chip breakers on cutters only work when you can take the feeds, speeds and  depth of cuts they are designed for. You will never be able to take advantage of those features with a hand held tool. Metal inserts are for the most part, never as sharp as ones used for wood.



Oh i won't be so closed minded just yet. I have seen BradG do some amazing work with acids etching here and that pushes me to thinking there is always a better mousetrap or someone working on one. i will continue to search. We are basically a penturning site and that is such a small drop in the turning world bucket. New technology is showing up every day. 

As I said if I do come up with something I will be sure to make note here. Heck all I have is time as of right now, to waste. Your words  are noted though and thanks.


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## Paul in OKC (Jan 13, 2015)

John, there are some out there. You may not get full advantage of the style, but that don't mean you can't give one a try. Soft metal inserts generally have a positive rake on the nose. I will try to find an example or two later and post.


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## Paul in OKC (Jan 13, 2015)

If you google carbide inserts for turning aluminum, you will get a few things to look at. Two styles are the DCGT, and CCGT style. 
https://media.idgsupply.com/images/products/m/G8HHS0F2HQLK.jpg
http://www.travers.com/Travers Images/Current eSales Images/300x300/22-286-700.jpg
I think either of these may do well for you. Turning metals with hand tools is a bit of a challenge, but definitely doable.


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## Dale Allen (Jan 13, 2015)

John, I recently did some trials on various metals with my newly made carbide insert tools.  The tool I used has a woodworking type 11.7 mm radius blade.  It is the kind that are flat on the top edge and tapered on the sides.
This was done on an HF woodworking lathe.
I wanted to see if I could turn copper, brass and aluminum any better, mainly because I cannot turn copper very well at all.
All 3 turned much harder and left a nasty finish.  I tried lube, different speeds and even turned the blade upside down.  All to no avail.
My conclusion is that those metals turn better with the carbide blades made for metal lathes.  I use such a blade in a tool-holder and homemade handle. as pictured below.  This is used on the woodworking lathe but because of the type of blade, it does a decent job on aluminum and brass.  It does better on copper but not well.  Copper just gets gummy and chatters.
So, maybe that info will be of help.


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## jttheclockman (Jan 13, 2015)

Thanks Paul and Dale. I am still keeping my eyes open. I only wish I had kept the contact I made back when I got the cutters from the person I talked to on the scroll saw site. This person made calls and was always turning metals. He sent me a group of cutters with various cut shapes and they worked great on metals. But over time I had used them up. That has to be over 10 years now.  Then I went to the standard ones that everyone keeps linking to but not the same. They work but not the greatest.  The quest continues.


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## wob50 (Jan 13, 2015)

This whole time I did not know captain Eddie's was a Louisiana dude  dang what a small world lol I need to bring him some chicken and sausage gumbo he mite like that


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## Dale Allen (Jan 14, 2015)

John, perhaps if you could take a closeup picture of the ones you are trying to find/replace, maybe someone will recognize them and help identify them.


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## lwalper (Jan 14, 2015)

I've been looking for threaded a center connector for the cigar style transmission that would not have the center band integral to the part. Coming to realize that part is probably not available I got a "normal" cigar center connector, chucked it up in my 3/8" collet chuck and with the square 15mm carbide tool turned that center band off. Using light cuts and turning at about 700 RPM it left a mirror finish on the cut. BTW, the center connector is made of brass and cut like a charm??


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## steve worcester (Jan 17, 2015)

Curly said:


> Chip breakers on cutters only work when you can take the feeds, speeds and  depth of cuts they are designed for. You will never be able to take advantage of those features with a hand held tool. Metal inserts are for the most part, never as sharp as ones used for wood.



There are two types of carbide cutters used for woodturning currently. The flat top/scrapers used in Easywood and others, where a Byrd Helix works well and real cutters, like a Hunter and now others. The latter is the difficult one to source. The cutters have a gullet, chip breaker, and it is a highly polished nano-carbide. The inserts are used (as far as I can tell) in plastic manufacturing, where you need a super sharp edge and the gullet acts as a chip breaker. Personally I haven't found a replacement out there and use Hunters. But at the same time, at $20 each, I think they are a good replacement for how they wear and work.

I have bought several metal working inserts to try to replicate the speed and quality of cut of the hunters, closest I have come is Carbide warehouse (I think that is the name) and they are cheaper, but don't have the polish all the way across and don't perform as well as Hunters.


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## jttheclockman (Jan 17, 2015)

steve worcester said:


> Curly said:
> 
> 
> > Chip breakers on cutters only work when you can take the feeds, speeds and  depth of cuts they are designed for. You will never be able to take advantage of those features with a hand held tool. Metal inserts are for the most part, never as sharp as ones used for wood.
> ...


 

Steve, pm sent.


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## Paul in OKC (Jan 17, 2015)

I, too, have recently picked up a couple of different metal working inserts to try. They have a chip breaker designed for aluminum machining. Hope to try them soon.


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## jttheclockman (Jan 17, 2015)

Paul in OKC said:


> I, too, have recently picked up a couple of different metal working inserts to try. They have a chip breaker designed for aluminum machining. Hope to try them soon.



Paul please let me know what you find if you don't mind. Thanks.


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## Paul in OKC (Jan 18, 2015)

will do.


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## steve worcester (Jan 24, 2015)

Dale Allen, you sent me a PM but I can't reply because you have set your profile to not allow PMs


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