# How important is $3?



## ed4copies

When you order supplies or other small items, we have been using First Class Mail and giving you a refund of $3  (of the normal $6.50 shipping and handling charge).

Now, we are seeing the First Class packages take a week to arrive to our customers.  So, we would like input.


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## witz1976

Ed, 
It really doesn't matter that much to me unless I need a rush on something.  Hope it helps!


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## THarvey

Usually, by the time I place an order, I needed the stuff "yesterday".  Priority is better for me.


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## turbowagon

It's not a huge deal, but I would prefer the choice during the checkout process if that would be possible.

- Joe


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## thewishman

turbowagon said:


> It's not a huge deal, but I would prefer the choice during the checkout process if that would be possible.
> 
> - Joe




I concur.


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## zig613

Ed...

The extra couple of days is no big deal.  Shipping to the north (Canada) takes 10-12 days at best.  So, I would prefer to get the discount.  

Wade


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## Rick_G

I prefer the faster route but being in Canada it's going to take 3 - 4 weeks no matter which way you ship it.  Although I did see something arrive in 8 days from the U.S. once.  Somebody in customs likely lost his job over that one.


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## ThomJ

Never had a rush order, so 1st class is fine by me


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## Robert Taylor

seems anymore that there is very little difference time wise between first class and priority, just a difference in price.


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## Curly

Doesn't seem to make any difference how it is mailed to this end of Canada, it always takes at least a week and as much as three. Average is 10 to 14 days. Courier companies are much faster but also cost a lot more and I am cheap! We just have come to accept and expect the longer times.

Pete


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## Russianwolf

Ed, why don't you add an extra option:

a) Priority Mail $6.50
b) least expensive available $6.50 (We will refund unused portion if any)


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## ed4copies

When given choices at checkout, there are problems.
People pick the "cheapest", even if the package CANNOT POSSIBLY be packaged that way.

We could give an option that said, "Priority mail, only, do NOT send first class".  But, if we say "First class" is an option for packages under 14 ounces (that's the USPS regulation), people will choose it for 5 pound packages.
BTDT!

And yes, Canadians--we will keep exercising our own good judgement.  First class is no slower than priority to Canada.

WITHIN the USA, Priority gets to you about 1 to 4 days faster than first class---or at least that has been our experience--of course we are more likely to hear about the slow ones, usually people only call if it has NOT arrived.


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## ed4copies

Russianwolf said:


> Ed, why don't you add an extra option:
> 
> a) Priority Mail $6.50
> b) least expensive available $6.50 (We will refund unused portion if any)




I like this, Mike!!


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## turbowagon

Ed,

you could make the choices:

[ x ]  Ship priority mail no matter what ($6)

[    ] Ship first class if possible [refund will be applied for packages under 14 oz.]  ($6)



EDIT: beaten by the wolf


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## ed4copies

turbowagon said:


> Ed,
> 
> you could make the choices:
> 
> [ x ]  Ship priority mail no matter what ($6)
> 
> [    ] Ship first class if possible [refund will be applied for packages under 14 oz.]
> 
> EDIT: beaten by the wolf


That's good, too!!!

Knew there was a good reason to ask---you guys are GREAT!!!


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## bitshird

Ed, this has been something I've been fighting with for a while, when I send out a couple of insert I send them 1st class, but I have often had packages arrive with in a day to the same area, so I wish I had an answer, If a customer had an emergency I would of course send it Priority.


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## G1Pens

Normally, I'm fine with First Class when that is the more economical choice. If I need it faster, I would let you know.


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## GoodTurns

turbowagon said:


> ...
> 
> EDIT: beaten by the wolf



better than bitten by a wolf!


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## Russianwolf

GoodTurns said:


> turbowagon said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> EDIT: beaten by the wolf
> 
> 
> 
> 
> better than bitten by a wolf!
Click to expand...


hey!!! I got that rabies problem under control..... twitch twitch...


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## Russianwolf

SQUIRREL!!!!!


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## dgscott

Ultimately it shouldn't make a difference, but getting packages from you is like waiting for Santa!
Doug


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## ctubbs

Ed, how about

I'm in a hurry

Most economical

Your guess

Charles


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## PenPal

Small comment we get priority paid quicker here from Ed than Canada could it be an overall problem between Canada and the United States Customs.

In Australia we can send to main areas cities etc overnight 3 kilos (do the conversion 2.2 lbs one kilo) for less than 12 dollars, have a look a my avatar nearly same size Australia part of Nth America accurately shown our population in the whole country less than your New York.
I sincerely admire Ed for his continual attempts to satisfy his customers,he has a committed vote from me. A small voice tells me some of the people etc some of the time. In retirement these last 14 yrs I adhere to the policy try not to pressure me with your lack of preparation,
or the well meaning friend or relly this should only take you ten minutes.

Here in Aussie the United States Govt put a levy on all parcels from us to America over 500 grams of 9 something dollars to help the US govt pay for added security etc. At 20.00 odd dollars for up to 500 grams do this sum (very expensive huh)

Have success Ed please note we here could equate similar horror stories about Aust Post and USPS.

Kind Regards Peter.


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## soligen

thewishman said:


> turbowagon said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's not a huge deal, but I would prefer the choice during the checkout process if that would be possible.
> 
> - Joe
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I concur.
Click to expand...

 
Same here.  I'd rather have the $3 back if I'm in no hurry


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## DrBills

Choice is good!

Bill


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## AKPenTurner

In my experience, First Class is just about as fast as Priority. It occasionally takes a few more days, but I'm usually not in that much of a hurry...  I'm cheap.


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## SteveG

To keep it simple, how about this:
   1. ALWAYS ship via Priority Mail
   2. Do not charge for shipping

Simple!!


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## ed4copies

Interesting results:

50% want first class, save $3
33% want priority
17% Don't care

Just over 100 replies.

I believe we will be adding the checkboxes for customer preferences.  Keep responding--but there is a trend here.


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## BKelley

Ed,

Does not make much difference to me.  My last order from you got here PDQ. 
Thanks and keep up the good work.

Ben


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## PenMan1

ed4copies said:


> Russianwolf said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ed, why don't you add an extra option:
> 
> a) Priority Mail $6.50
> b) least expensive available $6.50 (We will refund unused portion if any)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I like this, Mike!!
Click to expand...


This is a winner for me, too, Ed. I would likely always pick priority mail, as I usually forget that I need something until 2 days after I really needed it.


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## Crickett

Do any of the options include a tracking number?


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## Smitty37

*First class*

Guys - in the USA you don't gain much (if any) time shipping priority mail.
A package shipped today from Delaware to Las Vegas estimated delivery is April 1 for Priority and April 2 first class - my bet would be April 2 for both.  Having watched this carefully (with a few exceptions) I ship everything under 13 ounces First Class.  It travels on the same airplanes or trucks.


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## ed4copies

Smitty37 said:


> Guys - in the USA you don't gain much (if any) time shipping priority mail.
> A package shipped today from Delaware to Las Vegas estimated delivery is April 1 for Priority and April 2 first class - my bet would be April 2 for both.  Having watched this carefully (with a few exceptions) I ship everything under 13 ounces First Class.  It travels on the same airplanes or trucks.



USUALLY, you are absolutely correct.  Recently, we have had a couple that took 8 days to Texas via First Class.  That is what motivated me to ask.

Of course, the Postal Service SAYS 3 days for Priority and, like you, our experience says that is about accurate.

Also on tracking numbers: Once a package leaves O'Hare for international delivery, the tracking number will only show when it left the USA.  So, for international---YOUR country determines when or IF you get the package.  The USPS does no good in these situations.  BTDT!!


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## Smitty37

*I have not seen that yet*



ed4copies said:


> When you order supplies or other small items, we have been using First Class Mail and giving you a refund of $3 (of the normal $6.50 shipping and handling charge).
> 
> Now, we are seeing the First Class packages take a week to arrive to our customers. So, we would like input.


 
I have not noticed that Ed - I use 1st class for anything under 13 ounces unless I can't get it into a padded mailer. I have not had any complaints about slow arrival.  I ship about even numbers of packages each way. 

I have shipped two packages the same day to the same address (in Canada) one first class and one priority mail and three weeks after I shipped the buyer called and asked about the priority package - said he had the 1st class for a week but the priority hadn't gotten there yet.


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## Fibonacci

I vote for having a choice.  This is a hobby for me, and with one toddler wandering around and maybe another one soon, $3 is another kit or a couple blanks to me.  A couple days one way or the other makes no real difference to me.

If I needed something for a rush project for someone, I like the idea of being able to have something between cheap first class and UPS air.


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## ed4copies

Smitty (and others),
I have a theory about first class to Canada.

I believe Customs doesn't think they are worth worrying about.  So, yes, I think a first class arrives MORE quickly than a Priority. 

They will both be transported to O'Hare in the same truck, so they are very likely to leave on the same flight!!


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## Smitty37

*Yep*



ed4copies said:


> Smitty37 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Guys - in the USA you don't gain much (if any) time shipping priority mail.
> A package shipped today from Delaware to Las Vegas estimated delivery is April 1 for Priority and April 2 first class - my bet would be April 2 for both. Having watched this carefully (with a few exceptions) I ship everything under 13 ounces First Class. It travels on the same airplanes or trucks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> USUALLY, you are absolutely correct. Recently, we have had a couple that took 8 days to Texas via First Class. That is what motivated me to ask.
> 
> Of course, the Postal Service SAYS 3 days for Priority and, like you, our experience says that is about accurate.
> 
> Also on tracking numbers: Once a package leaves O'Hare for international delivery, the tracking number will only show when it left the USA. So, for international---YOUR country determines when or IF you get the package. The USPS does no good in these situations. BTDT!!
Click to expand...

 
With the wierd weather in the mid-west and south-central area's this year that might have had some impact at times. It did on some of my shipments to the North East where they've also had a lot of bad weather.

International is a crap shoot - Canada is slow....France seems to be pretty fast...Brazil, South Africa and others steal the packages....One problem with international is that often they hold the package to collect duties and/or value added tax. The problem is they sometimes don't tell the addressee that they're holding it. I have gotten notified by at least a half dozen people in various countries telling me the package had not arrived and when I told them to check customs or the post office there it was waiting for them to come pay.

There is another customs form that you can get tracking on- can't use it on small flat rate boxes or envelopes though.  I'm not sure about medium FRB but it is useable on large FRB.


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## bitshird

Smitty you can get tracking on both medium and large FRB international priority.


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## ashaw

Ed
Always priority mail.  

Alan


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## OKLAHOMAN

Ed, $3 is WAY less than a cup of coffee at Starbucks, I would think most would want Priority and I always.


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## markgum

A choice would be nice, but I'm sure that complicates things on your end.  
Quality products; great customer service is most important.  Shipping is something we tolerate.


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## ed4copies

47-35-18
First class-Priority-don't care.
135 votes, so far.


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## dogcatcher

I order every 2 or 3 months, and early enough that I am never sitting and waiting on anything to arrive.  Buying more at one time saves on postage, compared to ordering every 3 or 4 weeks, also I get some bulk buy discounts by doing it this way.  Myself, I want it as cheap as possible, that is what makes my bottom line look better.


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## leslie hines

First class unless I need it in a hurry maybe some kind of customers choice


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## Sylvanite

My observation from the shipper point of view is a little different.  I used to offer two shipping options - a fixed rate that went Priority Mail, or a by-weight rate that shipped First Class Mail.  No matter how well I explained the options in my shipping procedures, I had customers who would
Order one item, choose priority mail, and then ask for a cheaper rate and a refund, or
Order several items, and choose first class mail - even when the charge was higher than the priority mail rate.
   For a while, I emailed customers who chose counterintuitive shipping options, but that took up a lot of my time.  Eventually, I switched to a single zone-based shipping charge and set up the rates to match First Class postage for small, lightweight packages, and switch over to Priority Mail small/medium/large box rates at the appropriate points.  Every package automatically gets the least expensive shipping, and I don't have to doublecheck customer options, confirm choices, or issue refunds.

Just my experience,
Eric


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## SDB777

I usually order with time to spare....so it doesn't really matter to me.

The only thing that irks me is the sites that offer Priorty shipping and quote a price of $12 for a small flat rate when we all know it only costs $5.20(unless you go online to pay for it-then it's less)....and then wait a week to send the package out.  Why bother?




Scott (doesn't matter = my vote) B


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## dogcatcher

leslie hines said:


> First class unless I need it in a hurry maybe some kind of customers choice



If the customer waits until the last minute and wants it in a few days, I will offer them the option of overnight express, and add it to their bill.   Even with a Priority mail order that a customer thinks they needs right now gets stuck with the shipping charges.  

Their last option  is to take something I have in stock, but as I said earlier, I keep a good inventory and only need to order every 2 or 3 months.  Those weekly orders with $3 or $4 shipping charges on each order is not the way to run a business.  I can order a 2 month supply and only pay once, and that shipping maybe only $10.


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## ed4copies

Well, we put the choices on the site and, so far, everyone has opted for the Priority---it will be interesting to see how this develops.

Thanks to ALL for your feedback--hope the "choice thing" will make most of the people happy all of the time!!:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:


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## ed4copies

BTW, current tally:
43% Send it first class, refund diff
37% Send it priority
20% Don't care


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## OKLAHOMAN

Holy crap that added up to 100%



ed4copies said:


> BTW, current tally:
> 43% Send it first class, refund diff
> 37% Send it priority
> 20% Don't care


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## ed4copies

:biggrin::biggrin:I was a math major!:biggrin::biggrin:


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## ldb2000

I will never understand why someone would "cheap-out" over $3.00 . I've never had a problem with getting broken or crushed items when they were shipped in a flat rate box but I've had several destroyed items that were shipped First class in padded  envelopes (not from you Ed) . I've also had items shipped first class that took a week or more to arrive , not that I was in a rush but I ordered them and didn't want to wait that long to play with my toys . I'm still unemployed (going on a year now so every penny counts) but will ask that you only ship by Priority Mail to me anytime I order from you , the $3 won't make or break me .


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## ed4copies

Butch, 
You actually point out something about first class mail.

We shipped some samples of refills when we first introduced the 9000.  At the time, I shipped them first class--seemed easy enough.

Over half were damaged in transit.  So, now if we ship first class, we also put cardboard on each side of the product being shipped, which, of course adds to the weight.  That's why we are always over $2 in postage, even when we use first class (but they DO get there, undamaged!!)


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## JeffW

Ed,  Shipping costs always get me.  I'm very happy to wait a day or two more.


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## ed4copies

JeffW said:


> Ed,  Shipping costs always get me.  I'm very happy to wait a day or two more.



thanks for "revitalizing" this thread, now that the count is displayed publicly.  

We decided to give a choice, so when you check out, you can choose "cheapest" or "priority".  So far, we have only had ONE "cheapest" choice since this was initiated (about two weeks).

Thank-you to all who voted!!!!  And those who commented.

AND Dean (Alphageek), for figuring out how to give folks a choice!!


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## arw01

Personally, I HATE SHIPPING CHARGES.  Lee Valley get's three orders a year from me.  When the shipping is free.  Last order was $140.

I find I bail from a lot of check outs when I find out they want $9.00 to ship something that could fit in that $4.85 flat rate box.

First class is a great option, I find those packages arrive 1-2 days later than priority that always seem to arrive the second day after being mailed.

Johnnycnc just sent me a priority on Friday night that arrived tuesday.

Personally, I didn't know you had a $3.50 shipping option, that will cause me to put an order in this week


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## Andrew Arndts

Bill Cosby had a great answer about the Half Glass question is it half full or half empty.  His answer was "am I drinking or am I pouring?"  

I write that to write this.
Am I sending or am I receiving?
If I am the person making the order, I want this item as soon as it can get here in the fastest yet economical method.  I like flat rate priority.  "if it fits it ships for one low rate."  HOWever this is not always the norm.  I will send off a package first class or parcel post if need be.  

I guess really if you sent something to me priority, then I should do the same.


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## toolcrazy

When I listed my wife's handmade note cards on my site, I enabled first class. And I found that my customers were selecting First Class instead of Priority. But, when I have the option, I generally select Priority. 

BTW, check out my wife's handmade note cards, they are awesome. http://tfwdesignstore.com (sorry for the plug )


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## CaRed

Ed,

Thanks for asking.  I learned a lesson from a prior employer.  The owner was an engineer and very intelligent.  He asked a series of questions of all employees about the upcoming catalog and how we thought our customers would like to see it.  Our suggestions were to be based on our interaction with customers on the phone or in person and our personal preference.  He came to a concensus of what we thought our customers would want.  All the while, he was calling our customers and asking them the same questions.  He sampled about 50 of our best customers.  It was really embarrassing to find out what we thought our customers wanted was exactly the opposite of what they actually wanted.  How could we, who were supposed to be the experts regarding our customers, be so far off?  He gathered all of us in the conference room and gave us the results and humbled all of us.  He was actually angry at his management group (primarily me) for not stepping up and suggesting he was asking the wrong people.  Only our customers know what they want.  LESSON LEARNED.  

Thanks for asking the simple question and keeping your customers at the number one position.


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## ed4copies

Chris,

Mostly this proves I'm old!!

Years ago, when computers were just entering the workplace, we installed one in my copier dealership.  I was a "hands-on" guy who KNEW my customers.  When the computer started spitting out data,  I realized how misinformed I had been.  Now, I rely on data first and asking questions of customers next.  The results of this survey have, so far, shown that our customers do not act exactly as this poll would predict.  HOWEVER, having the option of first class doesn't hurt anything!!!

Another "Marketing 101" lesson.


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## TellicoTurning

I guess I come from a different world after 40 years in the shipping business... I have trouble understanding the fuss about shipping times and costs... shipping cost is a cost of doing business... regardless of whether you are a full fledged small business or just doing a hobby business.  
Even if you go to the local store and pick up your items, there was a shipping cost in getting the goods to the store... 
As for the time involved, shipping takes time... there are the transportation companies schedules, the processing time, etc all are factors to the shipping times.  There are factors that no one can control... example, my son is a long haul trucker... he recently left Indianapolis headed down I75 to Laredo... he was stopped just north of Little Rock because the road was flooded, turned back north to a detour that would take him around the flooding.  Because of the detour, he was 8 hours late getting to Laredo.  His delivery was on time because of the schedule, but if not for the flooding, he could have been earlier... a factor outside anyone's control.
In the question of first class vs priority mail.... both classes will generally leave the post office on the same truck... the priority may be handled faster once it reaches a sort station, but it leaves on the same truck.. just in different colored bags.   Back in the '70's when I worked for an airlines, we flew a lot of "Green Mail"... mail in green bags - first class mail..... right along side the air mail in orange bags.... you paid a premium to fly our mail in that orange bag.

The significance of $3 doesn't escape me as I will choose the lesser costs on my orders, because when you are ordering $30-$40 at a time, $3 is a significant cost... but back when I was in the industry, it wasn't unusual for my shipping invoices to be $10,000 or more, so $3 was insignificant.   I haven't had the pleasure of buying from Dawn or Ed yet, and it may be a while since I've cut back on my pen turning significantly and I have an abundance of bowl and pepper mill blanks, but I would probably choose the lesser cost and not worry about the time involved in the shipping...


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