# Closed End Question



## dexter0606 (Feb 1, 2011)

I'm thinking of taking a shot at the closed end style. I've looked at the tutorials / posts and I think I have a good starting point.
I'm not sure about closed end rollerballs though. Most, if not all, I've seen are fountains. I'm wondering what I need to do to fit in the rollerball spring. Have I missed something?


----------



## its_virgil (Feb 1, 2011)

Just make some careful and judicial measurements and drill your hole to the correct length. The spring can be placed onto the refill tip. But, I often leave out the spring and let the refill bottom out on the end of the hole. Accuracy in measuring and drilling is required.

I have two closed end articles on my website which you may or may not have seen. If you want, take a look at http://www.RedRiverPens.com/articles  They are about midway in the list.

Do a good turn daily!
Don



dexter0606 said:


> I'm thinking of taking a shot at the closed end style. I've looked at the tutorials / posts and I think I have a good starting point.
> I'm not sure about closed end rollerballs though. Most, if not all, I've seen are fountains. I'm wondering what I need to do to fit in the rollerball spring. Have I missed something?


----------



## dexter0606 (Feb 1, 2011)

Thanks Don
I hadn't seen those articles
I'll let you know how things work out


----------



## Jim in Oakville (Feb 1, 2011)

I always use the spring with a roller ball (It gives the "feel factor").  The critical length for the pen is  usually 2 7/8"  I measure the diameter of the spring and drill the final depth with a drill matching that measurement, usually a 7mm bit.  The depth of the 7mm hole depends on how deep you drill the tube size hole, the total should be about 2 7/8".


----------



## its_virgil (Feb 1, 2011)

I do this also. Actually, I like the feel without the spring so the ones I make for myself use no spring. The ones I make to sell I use the spring and drill the smaller hole as Jim outlined. Some mfg's springs will fit onto the end of the refill and others will not. Thanks Jim for giving the measurements. I could not recall them and was too lazy to go look at notes.
Do a good turn daily!
Don



Jim in Oakville said:


> I always use the spring with a roller ball (It gives the "feel factor").  The critical length for the pen is  usually 2 7/8"  I measure the diameter of the spring and drill the final depth with a drill matching that measurement, usually a 7mm bit.  The depth of the 7mm hole depends on how deep you drill the tube size hole, the total should be about 2 7/8".


----------



## gwilki (Feb 1, 2011)

I do like Jim does, and put a drop of ca on the spring when I insert it. That way, the client doesn't lose it when he takes the pen apart.


----------



## Jim in Oakville (Feb 1, 2011)

its_virgil said:


> I do this also. Actually, I like the feel without the spring so the ones I make for myself use no spring. The ones I make to sell I use the spring and drill the smaller hole as Jim outlined. Some mfg's springs will fit onto the end of the refill and others will not. Thanks Jim for giving the measurements. I could not recall them and was too lazy to go look at notes.
> Do a good turn daily!
> Don
> 
> ...



Hi Don,

I have never tried it that way, I will try that idea on my next one...Thanks!


----------



## bensoelberg (Feb 1, 2011)

This is a great thread!  I was just about to try my hand at a closed end pen and this was one of the things that I hadn't quite figured out yet.  Thanks for all the info, guys!


----------



## randyrls (Feb 2, 2011)

gwilki said:


> I do like Jim does, and put a drop of ca on the spring when I insert it. That way, the client doesn't lose it when he takes the pen apart.



I make sure the spring will not fall out of the nib end.  For a normal ended pen, either expand the last turn of the spring or use a drop of CA or Locktite as you do.

For a closed end, take the large diameter end of the spring, and drill the spring hole about .030" smaller.


----------



## wb7whi (Feb 3, 2011)

gwilki said:


> I do like Jim does, and put a drop of ca on the spring when I insert it. That way, the client doesn't lose it when he takes the pen apart.


 

Would it not be better to use epoxy? I understand that CA gas can be pretty caustic on fittings.


----------



## dexter0606 (Feb 3, 2011)

> The spring can be placed onto the refill tip.


 
Not sure I follow that. There wouldn't be any compression on the spring at the nib end???


----------



## Timebandit (Feb 3, 2011)

Jeff,if you dont drill your smaller hole for the spring,and the refill just bottoms out on your larger hole,when you put the spring on the nib end and twist the nib on,the spring will compress just the same as it would have had it been on the other end.It compresses inside the nib.And if yo wanted to you could put a little dab of epoxy on it to keep it in.
Hope this helps

Justin



dexter0606 said:


> > The spring can be placed onto the refill tip.
> 
> 
> Not sure I follow that. There wouldn't be any compression on the spring at the nib end???


----------



## PenMan1 (Feb 3, 2011)

I'm never married to any certain length when I make a closed end roller ball pen. I do measure carefully to make sure the bottom barrel is long enough, but I never let the design be dictated by the mechanism. 

Any barrel length longer that the refill can be manipulated by careful drilling or simply changing the spring to one that meets your needs. Springs are cheap and the local hardware stores have boxes of them.


----------



## dexter0606 (Feb 3, 2011)

> Jeff,if you dont drill your smaller hole for the spring,and the refill just bottoms out on your larger hole,when you put the spring on the nib end and twist the nib on,the spring will compress just the same as it would have had it been on the other end.It compresses inside the nib.And if yo wanted to you could put a little dab of epoxy on it to keep it in.
> Hope this helps


 
Still confused??
The purpose of the rollerball spring is to use it in compression when force is appied to the ball of the refill to cushion the refill isn't it. If you put it between the pen nib and the end of the refill you don't get the required compression. all you're doing is pressing the refill against the bottom of the barrel hole.


----------



## Timebandit (Feb 3, 2011)

I get ya.Sorry bout that.You are correct.



dexter0606 said:


> > Jeff,if you dont drill your smaller hole for the spring,and the refill just bottoms out on your larger hole,when you put the spring on the nib end and twist the nib on,the spring will compress just the same as it would have had it been on the other end.It compresses inside the nib.And if yo wanted to you could put a little dab of epoxy on it to keep it in.
> > Hope this helps
> 
> 
> ...


----------

