# Amazing (?) New Finish



## Galanw (Apr 30, 2007)

Red Dyed Box Elder (a freebee from BB) dipped in Deft Waterborn Acrylic. Best looking finish I ever got. Two coats...right from the can with no sanding, polishing, or buffing and no wax. It couldn't be easier (except for the wait). 

I have no idea how it will hold up. I wrote to ask about this on the finishing forum, but no replies. Galanw


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## gketell (Apr 30, 2007)

gorgeous!!!!!

So, how exactly do you dip it?  String through the tube with a washer on the end?  Then what? Twirl it to remove excess?

I'm in the search for a new finish because I believe I'm starting to have mad reactions to cyano fumes.  Last two times I was finishing pens my nose stopped up after I got a whiff of the drying cyano and I felt like I had the worlds worst cold for several days after that.

Thanks!!
GK


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## Galanw (Apr 30, 2007)

A less compressed photo


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## Galanw (Apr 30, 2007)

I too was driven to a new finish because of a reation to CA fumes (even with vapor masks, fans, etc).

I put the barrel on a 1/4" threaded rod with the bearings and nuts holding them in place. I dunk the whole thing in the can and let it drain over the can until it stops dripping. Then I hang it up to dry (2 hours). No twisting or turning. For the second coat I reverse the barrel to keep the coating even. The technique is described somewhere on this forum for lacquer dipping. After the second coat dries to touch (2 hours), remover the bushings or they will be difficult to remove after it cures (overnight?).

Another good finish for the CA challenged is Enduro. The Deft Waterborn Acrylic seems like a similar consistently.

Galanw


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## Penmonkey (Apr 30, 2007)

It dose look very good. Let us know how it holds.


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## NavyDiver (Apr 30, 2007)

Great pen!  The finish looks fantastic!


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## ahoiberg (May 1, 2007)

that does look nice. i was awaiting a response to your question in the finishing forum, looks like you've got one now. []

did you get one of those smaller cans at woodcraft or something? quart sized? i'm just curious how two barrels would dip in it if you were making something other than the sierra. is there room?

i'm intrigued.


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## huntersilver (May 1, 2007)

Nice finish

Nice pen and finish[]


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## JimGo (May 1, 2007)

Can we see a close-up of the barrel?  The finish looks great, and I'd be really curious to see it in detail.

Or, even better, would you mail the pen to me? []


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## Galanw (May 1, 2007)

A combined reply:

I used a 1 qt. can. There are several articles and posts about dipping on this site. Just search the archives.

Photo in lieu of sending pen: Under extreme magnification I can see some minute ridges at the bottom. In real life it is perfectly smoothe.


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## JimGo (May 1, 2007)

Thanks!  I'd still prefer the pen, but the finish looks pretty good, even at this size.

How long did it take to cure?


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## Galanw (May 1, 2007)

I'm not sure. Since I didn't polish, buff or wax, I can't tell you that it was fine after x hours. It felt like I could have assembled the pen after two hours (when I removed the bushings), although I left it overnight before assembling.


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## byounghusband (May 1, 2007)

Man that's nice!! I might ahve to give that a try one of these days.  Don't ya just love the BB Freebies?


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## 2rcbruce (May 2, 2007)

I do something similar with water based polly for hardwood floors. It holds up really well and looks pretty good too. The only thing i do diferent is to pollish with Hutt plastic pollish on the lathe after it dries. bruce


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## heineda (May 2, 2007)

Greg,

I have been using the BLO?CA finish for a while now, and I explained my process of applying the finish until my eyes started to burn, and a strong odor was present. I have since found out that as the CA cures, it emits a gas. The gas is what is bothering your nose. The gas is Cyanide!!! Make sure you have lots of ventilation when using the CA finish method.

Happy Turning,
Dan Heine


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## DCBluesman (May 2, 2007)

> _Originally posted by heineda_
> <br />Greg,
> 
> I have been using the BLO?CA finish for a while now, and I explained my process of applying the finish until my eyes started to burn, and a strong odor was present. I have since found out that as the CA cures, it emits a gas. The gas is what is bothering your nose. The gas is Cyanide!!! Make sure you have lots of ventilation when using the CA finish method.
> ...



I'm sorry, but CA glue does NOT give off cyanide gas (hydrogen cyanide) as it cures.  Before posting information like this, it pays to do the requisite research.  Here is a Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) from one of the leading purveyors of CA glue. 



> 1 CHEMICAL PRODUCT AND COMPANY IDENTIFICATION
> Product Type: Cyanoacrylate Ester
> 2 COMPOSITION, INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS
> Ingredients CAS No. %
> ...



For what it's worth, hydrogen cyanide was the gas of choice for many execution chambers starting as early as the 1920's.


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## its_virgil (May 2, 2007)

Check this out. 
[Q] Is it true that CA glue is made from Cyanide?  Can I poison myself with it?
[A] Shingend@ix.netcom.com (Mark and/or Mary Shannon)

  As a qualified chemist (Ph.D. in the ruddy subject), let me try to
  clarify the point.

  Cyanoacrylate glues contain the group H2C=CH-CN: Where the =
  represents a double bond between two carbons and there is a triple
  bond between the carbon and nitrogen of the CN.  CN is the 'cyano'
  group, and a three-carbon chain with a double bond next to another
  type of multiple bond (or some other form of electron rich group     
  such as a radical or anion) is an 'acrylic' group -- the combination
  gives a relatively high reactivity to the compounds and allows them
  to polymerize like a plastic.  Many non-toxic compounds contain both
  types of groups, and many medicines have cyano groups. Along with
  this group, there are other chemicals and can be other chains
  attached to that cyanoacrylate group in place of one or more of the
  hydrogens.

  There is <b>NO, NONE, NADA</b> cyanide released on curing these glues and
  hardening.  There are some obnoxious fumes released -- some of them
  just parts that boil out from the heat of the curing reaction.  BUT,
  whenever an organic chemical that contains nitrogen is burned, some
  cyanogen/hydrogen cyanide is released.  This happens with tobacco,
  meat, veggies, fireplace wood, etc. This release is worst when there
  is not enough oxygen present in the burning zone to ensure complete
  combustion -- so if there is a lot of smoke formation, there is more
  likelyhood of cyanide formation.

  As with any chemical process, it is best to have good ventilation 
  when dealing with these compounds, but most Cyanoacrylate glues have
  been formulated as non-toxic (some of the original uses were as skin
  and tissue glues to replace sutures in surgery).  If you are burning
  CA glues, do it in the same hood you use for spray painting.  This 
  goes for operations where you are using CA glue to hold parts for
  soldering, especially, since the fluxes and the modest burning
  temperatures add their own brew to the mix.  Combustion Chemistry is
  a field in itself, and there are many things not understood about
  general rules of chemical formation in various conditions of burning
  organic compounds.  I would suggest that everyone play it safer than 
  they might normally when they are burning any of the materials used
  in this hobby.
I found this at: http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/models/rms_tips/rmsfaq.5.html and there are some other good Q&A on CA glue and its use. I enjoyed reading the other questions.

Do a good turn daily!
Don





> _Originally posted by heineda_
> <br />Greg,
> I have since found out that as the CA cures, it emits a gas. The gas is what is bothering your nose. The gas is Cyanide!!! Make sure you have lots of ventilation when using the CA finish method
> Dan Heine


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## ahoiberg (May 2, 2007)

thanks for the info doc! brings back some painful memories from my organic chem class... []


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## leehljp (May 2, 2007)

Thanks Don. This is very helpful to know. I also know that CA is used in some medical procedures where sutures are not easy to use. So, CA is put directly onto flesh. 

I will also say that I was not affected by CA fumes and CA dust two years ago but did start having reactions to it about 6 months ago. I use a respirator now.


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## bloggstein (May 3, 2007)

Oh, sweet pickles...  Reading the part about the eyeball glueing on that datasheet is freaking me out.  It takes a bit to get my attention, but for some reason I'm really sensitive about my eyes.  They're still watering just thinking about it...  "Do not try to open the eyes by manipulation."   Yyyyyyeeesh...  That makes me shiver.


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## Glass Scratcher (May 3, 2007)

> _Originally posted by bloggstein_
> <br />Oh, sweet pickles...  Reading the part about the eyeball glueing on that datasheet is freaking me out.  It takes a bit to get my attention, but for some reason I'm really sensitive about my eyes.  They're still watering just thinking about it...  "Do not try to open the eyes by manipulation."   Yyyyyyeeesh...  That makes me shiver.



I think I remember our esteemed mod MesquiteMan did that last year? Eh, Curtis?


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## chazmonro (May 4, 2007)

Great, now I have a new strange eye fear. First it was sucking my eyeball out with the shop vac and now its getting ca glue in my eye. Good thing I always wear my safety glasses.


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## Glass Scratcher (May 4, 2007)

> _Originally posted by chazmonro_
> <br />Great, now I have a new strange eye fear. First it was sucking my eyeball out with the shop vac and now its getting ca glue in my eye. Good thing I always wear my safety glasses.



Sucking your eyeball out with the shopvac...  I am on the florr tryinv to tyle wni.e lauighkineg..,. oh my!

I thought my fear of sucking up one of the cats with my DC was bad.  I can just imagine reaching the hose under a cabinet or bench to pick up chips and sucking the cat tailfirst into the hose all the while it has sunk its claws as deep as it can in the linoleum to hold on for dear life.  Then I would have to explain to the family why and how the cat got devoid of hair from its butt to the end of its tale.

Oh the phobias we have.  Sucking your eyeball out with the shopvac...  Still funny!


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## Mikey (May 4, 2007)

Very interesting thought on the dipping, but how do you keep the finish from inside the barrel, and if it does get inside the tubes, how do you clean it all out?


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## mewell (May 4, 2007)

> _Originally posted by Mikey_
> <br />Very interesting thought on the dipping, but how do you keep the finish from inside the barrel, and if it does get inside the tubes, how do you clean it all out?



Glad you asked, Mikey! I'd also like to know THAT answer. The finish looks GREAT and LOML and I were all set to go out and buy some up when the same light bulb came on for me. I'd also like to hear any thoughts on "production" finishing - like 10 or more pens at a whack.

Thanks,
Mark


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## BigRob777 (May 4, 2007)

Very nice pen.  I still haven't tried dipping, though I have special equipment (bolts with beveled delran (I think that's what it's called) bushings.
Rob


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## Rifleman1776 (May 4, 2007)

> _Originally posted by bloggstein_
> <br />Oh, sweet pickles...  Reading the part about the eyeball glueing on that datasheet is freaking me out.  It takes a bit to get my attention, but for some reason I'm really sensitive about my eyes.  They're still watering just thinking about it...  "Do not try to open the eyes by manipulation."   Yyyyyyeeesh...  That makes me shiver.



A couple months ago there was a story in the Little Rock, Arkansas news about a guy baby sitting his girlfriends one year old daughter. For whatever sick reason, he glued her eyes shut with CA. The picture in the paper of the baby was heart rending. The judge released the monster on $1000.00 bond. Sorry about going OT, this story has stuck with me.


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