# BLO vs Mineral Oil ?



## rsulli16 (Nov 11, 2011)

can i use mineral oil just as i use blo? i wet sand with it, and i put some on a pad and the CA on top of it when i apply the CA.

will it cause problems under the CA?
Thanx
Sulli


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## StephenM (Nov 11, 2011)

I don't know for sure, but I would think that it would cause problems as it never really "cures".  BLO can build and be used as a finish by itself while mineral oil never really gets hard.


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## Rchan63 (Nov 11, 2011)

BOL is a drying oil or polymerized into a solid form. Minerial oil will not. It will never dry. So if you use minerial oil, CA will not stick to the finished blank.
I'm no expert that's just MHO. please correct me if I'm wrong.

Richard


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## rsulli16 (Nov 11, 2011)

darn,
and i did a fewof them too. right now the lok and feel geat. might be a problem later downw he road, huh?
Sulli


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## widows son (Nov 11, 2011)

I have used mineral oil without any issues. CA dried jut fine.


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## rsulli16 (Nov 12, 2011)

good to hear
i especially liked the way one of them turned out. the finish is exceptionally clear, more so than when i use the blo. but i have heard of this non drying bit bfore, but wasn't thininking of it when i reached forr the mineral oil that day. think i will go back to blo in the future to be sure.
Sulli


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## Texatdurango (Nov 12, 2011)

With all due respect I can't believe I'm reading this....... applying glue to a surface coated with mineral oil or mineral oil applied in between coats of glue!

This is just my opinion but just because the word oil is used in both Boiled linseed oil and mineral oil doesn't mean they have even close to the same properties.  If they did, why not just try some Penzoil 10w30?  I think you are in for some big failures using mineral oil with CA, if not you, two weeks down the road in the customers hands!


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## SCR0LL3R (Nov 12, 2011)

Texatdurango said:


> With all due respect I can't believe I'm reading this....... applying glue to a surface coated with mineral oil or mineral oil applied in between coats of glue!
> 
> This is just my opinion but just because the word oil is used in both Boiled linseed oil and mineral oil doesn't mean they have even close to the same properties.  If they did, why not just try some Penzoil 10w30?  I think you are in for some big failures using mineral oil with CA, if not you, two weeks down the road in the customers hands!



I have only tried mineral oil under CA once to see if it worked and it seemed fine. I only did it on scrap so I don't know how it held up over time. I have however used mineral oil successfully under, poly, lacquer, shellac and craft acrylic paints(don't ask) with no problems at all (except a minor issue with poly). All of these were done after the oil was wiped off and allowed to soak in until it was completely dry to the touch. For what I use it for it's quick, easy, clean, odorless, brings out the grain wonderfully and highlights edges on our scroll saw projects. 

Besides, I have doubts as to whether or not BLO dries like it's supposed to when it's immediately sealed in layers of CA. Even if it does dry right away, initially you still are mixing wet oil in the glue. Sounds like a bad idea but in practice it works fine.


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## widows son (Nov 12, 2011)

I have been making handles for tools for a couple of years using Mineral Oil with a CA finish and haven't had an issue yet with tools I use everyday. The handles have been exposed to heat, smoke and grease and getting knocked around. I also use mineral oil when I sand and finish bowls and get a much smoother finish than sanding dry. Don't knock it until you try it.


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## mrcook4570 (Nov 12, 2011)

As others have said, mineral oil will NOT dry.  I cannot see any benefit of having the mineral oil trapped under the CA.  

On the other hand, I also do not see any benefit of using BLO with CA.  The end result is the same either way, so why waste the time and effort in applying BLO.  Just use straight CA.


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## its_virgil (Nov 12, 2011)

boiled linseed oil works fine. Why the interest in mineral oil? Are you just wanting to know if it will work? I'm kind of a "If it ain't broke don't fix it" kind of guy. Maybe I just don't understand the interest in mineral oil. 
Do a good turn daily!
Don



rsulli16 said:


> can i use mineral oil just as i use blo? i wet sand with it, and i put some on a pad and the CA on top of it when i apply the CA.
> 
> will it cause problems under the CA?
> Thanx
> Sulli


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## SCR0LL3R (Nov 12, 2011)

The benefit is that it darkens the wood and makes the grain more pronounced. Not a big difference IMO vs. CA alone so I don't use it on pens but for scroll saw work, it's awesome! The grain and edge detail is much more visible than varnish alone.


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## SCR0LL3R (Nov 12, 2011)

I have found that woodworkers of all sorts are always ready to pounce on anybody who mentions mineral oil. There is always a reference to motor oil in these threads too. I just say there is more than one way to skin a cat. It works great for me, it's cheap and makes the wood grain and veining lines of my cutting more visible in my photos. I haven't found any reason to not use it under the shellac or lacquer sprays that I use.


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## Texatdurango (Nov 12, 2011)

SCR0LL3R said:


> I have found that woodworkers of all sorts are always ready to pounce on anybody who mentions mineral oil. There is always a reference to motor oil in these threads too. I just say there is more than one way to skin a cat. It works great for me, it's cheap and makes the wood grain and veining lines of my cutting more visible in my photos. I haven't found any reason to not use it under the shellac or lacquer sprays that I use.


First, you could have done without the word POUNCE, no one is pouncing on anyone! Questioning... yep, disagreeing... yep, pouncing... nope!

I've had a wood shop that I could walk into everyday for the past 35 years so am no stranger to weird ideas and things that don't sound right and I've used my fair share of mineral oil over the years but it just doesn't make sense to apply a coat of oil before applying a coat of glue. One of my all time favorite wood finishes isa blend of BLO, naptha and polyurethane. Sounds weird but they are compatable and I have used mineral oil when wet sanding a French polish BUT I don't apply glue over it so that's a different story.

Personally, when I want the woodgrain to pop on a pen I'll use either sanding sealer or shellac, neither of which in my opinion would inhibit the adhesion of the CA glue to the pen blank.

Notice I said "my opinion", that's what were doing here, sharing opinions not pouncing.:tongue:


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## SCR0LL3R (Nov 12, 2011)

Texatdurango said:


> Notice I said "my opinion", that's what were doing here, sharing opinions not pouncing.:tongue:



Sorry, bad choice of words on my part.... Let's just say there's a lot of resistance to the idea. 

I have found mineral oil to bring the grain out more than shellac.  But then again, I don't know how the Zinsser spray shellac that I use  compares to a brush on.


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## joefyffe (Nov 12, 2011)

*Oil*

George!  I use PenZoil 10W30 all the time.  It works great!  :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

*NOT!!!!! *Now, I'm wondering if he's talking about mineral oil, or mineral spirits?  Some Spirits (100 proof)might get him through! :tongue::tongue::tongue:     AND  Thanks for the tutorial on the sections!!!  That was great!!!  Can't wait till it's pdf in library!!:smile-big:





Texatdurango said:


> With all due respect I can't believe I'm reading this....... applying glue to a surface coated with mineral oil or mineral oil applied in between coats of glue!
> 
> This is just my opinion but just because the word oil is used in both Boiled linseed oil and mineral oil doesn't mean they have even close to the same properties. If they did, why not just try some Penzoil 10w30? I think you are in for some big failures using mineral oil with CA, if not you, two weeks down the road in the customers hands!


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## Texatdurango (Nov 12, 2011)

SCR0LL3R said:


> ....I have found mineral oil to bring the grain out more than shellac. But then again, I don't know how the Zinsser spray shellac that I use compares to a brush on.


 
I use just the opposite, I wipe on from the can.  I used to make a lot of the stars and stripes American flag pens and always had problems with the red sanding dust getting into the white wood until I started wiping on shellac.  Evedintally it soaked in deep enough to allow me to sand a bit without the red migrating into the white and I noticed that it made the blue and red really stand out in a deep rich color.  

I can't say I'll never try mineral oil with CA, it just won't be high on my list of things to do.


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## alphageek (Nov 12, 2011)

Texatdurango said:


> With all due respect I can't believe I'm reading this....... applying glue to a surface coated with mineral oil or mineral oil applied in between coats of glue!
> 
> This is just my opinion but just because the word oil is used in both Boiled linseed oil and mineral oil doesn't mean they have even close to the same properties.  If they did, why not just try some Penzoil 10w30?  I think you are in for some big failures using mineral oil with CA, if not you, two weeks down the road in the customers hands!



George, maybe if you hadn't started the conversation with the highlighted text, maybe it wouldn't feel like being pounced on. 

Considering that mineral oil is a very common wood finish, I don't know why the extreme reaction to it.  I'm glad that people are asking the question.  You jumped on the "against" bandwagon pretty hard here, but didn't explain anything to those of us who don't know any better WHY we could see a failure using mineral oil instead of BLO.

As for those who say "if it ain't broke" - I'm the other kind of guy... I'm glad people keep trying new things and posting both success AND failures. We learn from both.


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## Texatdurango (Nov 12, 2011)

alphageek said:


> Texatdurango said:
> 
> 
> > With all due respect I can't believe I'm reading this....... applying glue to a surface coated with mineral oil or mineral oil applied in between coats of glue!
> ...


 
What part of "With all due respect" don't you understand? Has the phrase been watered down so much over the years that it is meaningless or is it now meant to be an "in your face" type comment? It means I do respect what is being said (and your right to say it), I just can't believe I'm reading it! 

If you find my post innapropriate then delete it, I don't need a lecture jst for posting an apposing view in a thread...... Do I!


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## alphageek (Nov 12, 2011)

Texatdurango said:


> What part of "With all due respect" don't you understand?  Has the phrase been watered down so much over the years that it is meaningless or is it now meant to be an "in your face" type comment?  It means I do respect what is being said (and your right to say it), I just can't believe I'm reading it!  But if you don't get it, you just don't get it, so go ahead and have your fun!



Yep. George....
Too many people saying things like "With all due respect, your an idiot".   When  whatever follows is negative, adding "with all due respect" in front of it is not a sign of respect at all any more.

As to the topic, I see some people saying they have used mineral oil under CA.  Those that don't think it will 'dry' - can they explain more as to why BLO would dry, but mineral oil wouldn't?   I'm not sure the BLO 'dries' so much as interacts with the CA??


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## alphageek (Nov 12, 2011)

Texatdurango said:


> If you find my post innapropriate then delete it, I don't need a lecture jst for posting an apposing view in a thread...... Do I!



Oh... As for this piece that you edited in... I'm not moderating here.. just another member commenting on the discussion.   Just putting my view in too.   Trying to promote some positive conversation on a topic I found interesting. I'm not lecturing any more than you were.


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## StephenM (Nov 12, 2011)

BLO is a drying oil which changes into a solid form upon curing.  Mineral oil is more of a solvent that once dries, is more or less gone.  

That doesn't mean it's not good for popping grain though as evidenced by those who have used it.  Perhaps it gets into the grain, the CA then bonds with the wood and the oil isn't able to evaporate thus keeping a nice wet look to the wood.

I've never tried it and it seemed to go against my first instinct but as others have used it to good effect, perhaps I'll try an experiment using mineral oil, BLO and Watco on 3 blanks cut from the same piece of wood and see what the results are.


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## SCR0LL3R (Nov 12, 2011)

The mineral oil gets absorbed but never really dries. I really can't see how the BLO would actually dry under a sealing coat of CA either myself. Doesn't it need air in order for it to dry?


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## NewLondon88 (Nov 12, 2011)

SCR0LL3R said:


> The mineral oil gets absorbed but never really dries. I actually can't see how the BLO would actually dry under a sealing coat of CA either myself. Doesn't it need air in order for it to dry?



I don't think the BLO dries so much as polymerizes. It's not an 
evaporative cure like shellac (where the carrier/solvent evaporates and
leaves behind a hardened product) 

I don't know the science or whether or not it is a good idea. But someone
mentioned the french polish, which uses mineral oil mixed in with the
shellac and we know what kind of finish that is! And that can have
hundreds or thousands of micro-coats of oil in there..


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## alphageek (Nov 12, 2011)

SCR0LL3R said:


> The mineral oil gets absorbed but never really dries. I actually can't see how the BLO would actually dry under a sealing coat of CA either myself. Doesn't it need air in order for it to dry?



Redid some digging and found this GREAT post by Russ Fairfield:
http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=25250

He does explain some of the BLO drying better.   And explains why CA/BLO can cure the BLO.  Fabulous post.   But as for mineral oil vs BLO - I guess I'm still lost why BLO dries but mineral oil doesn't.  But if mineral oil doesn't cure ever even with a reaction to CA - it makes sense that wouldn't work like BLO.

However... Since some people do CA without BLO.   If CA was first, I wonder if mineral oil as a lubricant for multiple layers of CA would work.  Basically the CA would displace the oil or the oil would be absorbed but the paper towel as you put on each layer?   Wouldn't become part of the finish, but just helps application?   (All just MY speculation here - don't read ANY experience or expertise.)


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## rsulli16 (Nov 13, 2011)

*Thanks All*

hi all
thanks to everyyone who posted. wow! opened a can o'worms, didn't I 

basically i prefer to wet sand, and mineral oil is what i had at hand that day. The can of BLO lasts so long you foget,,,, so I figured what the heck, give it a try. (yes tex, was thinking oil is oil, still kinda new to this, sure glad i didn't see a can of Penzoil first! 

well i was pleasently suprised, it did pop the gain differently than the BLO did, and i liked it. I am in the middle of a run of freedom pens, have a lot of straight grained mahogony, so any variations i can get in color, shape ec. i can get are welcomed.

I did wipe it good and heat it up a little with paper towel and spining it good. I really liked the way one of them came out, hope it lasts. It was somehow different, clearer and deeper than the BLO ones.

But i went and got more BLO. I am getting my variations in color by sanding with BLO in the first two or three grits, or by only using it with the last grit or two, every other, or by using it with all the grits while sanding sanding. still experimenting, still loving it.

Next is decals. any sources for dowloading the Army, Navy, Air Foce, and the whodoyoucallthem, you know-the other one, logos?   (    )  (just kidding Marine!!! )  I am getting the Testors System with the advanced disk. I see in the library some cartridge pens with decals for all the services. Are those available, as only an image download? Any free clip-art type sites anyone know of?

Thanks again
Sulli


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## NewLondon88 (Nov 13, 2011)

rsulli16 said:


> Next is decals. any sources for dowloading the Army, Navy, Air Foce, and the whodoyoucallthem, you know-the other one, logos?   (    )  (just kidding Marine!!! )  I am getting the Testors System with the advanced disk. I see in the library some cartridge pens with decals for all the services. Are those available, as only an image download? Any free clip-art type sites anyone know of?



There are plenty of places with clip art and images for download, but you
want to be careful about using their emblems. You do need permission
and sometimes need to submit samples for approval first. There are 
those who will tell you you don't need to do this, but those people have
'no skin in the game' as the saying goes. What does it matter to them if
you get sued? The military branches say that their logos/emblems are 
protected by trademark and you can only use them with their approval.
They will grant it, but there is an approval process to go through. Contact
the Trademark Licensing Program for each branch and they'll get you
started with a hobbyist application


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## greenmtnguy (Nov 13, 2011)

Military logo usage applications

http://www.defense.gov/trademarks/


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## Wildman (Nov 13, 2011)

Better read labels on BLO can, many products not boiled at all just raw linseed oil with dryers added. If label on says 100% pure linseed oil why do they warn against ingestion, prolong skin exposure or contact with eyes. 

Linseed oil is a "drying oil", as it can polymerize into a solid form. Due to its polymer-forming properties, linseed oil is used on its own or blended with other oils, resins, and solvents as an impregnator and varnish in wood finishing, as a pigment binder in oil paints, as a plasticizer and hardener in putty and in the manufacture of linoleum. The use of linseed oil has declined over the past several decades with the increased use of synthetic alkyd resins, which are functionally similar but resist yellowing.[1] It is an edible oil but, because of its strong flavor and odor, is only a minor constituent of human nutrition in the U.S., although it is marketed as a nutritional supplement. In parts of Europe, it is traditionally eaten with potatoes and quark (cheese). It is regarded as a delicacy due to its hearty taste, which spices the bland quark.[2] 

Boiled linseed oil

Boiled linseed oil is used as a paint binder or as a wood finish on its own. Heating the oil causes it to polymerize and oxidize, making it thicker and shortening its drying time. Today, most products labeled as "boiled linseed oil" are a combination of raw linseed oil, petroleum-based solvent, and metallic dryers (catalysts to accelerate drying). The use of metallic dryers makes boiled linseed oil inedible. Some products contain only heat-treated linseed oil, without exposure to oxygen. Heat-treated linseed oil is thicker and dries very slowly. This grade of linseed oil is usually labeled as "polymerized" or "stand" oil, though some types may still be labeled as "boiled".

Food Safe Mineral Oil:

Because of its properties that prevent water absorption, combined with its lack of flavor and odor, food grade mineral oil is a popular preservative for wooden cutting boards, salad bowls and utensils. Rubbing a small amount of mineral oil into a wooden kitchen item periodically will prevent absorption of food odors and ease cleaning, as well as maintain the integrity of the wood, which is otherwise subjected to repeated wetting and drying in the course of use. The oil fills small surface cracks that may otherwise harbor bacteria.[12]
It is occasionally used in the food industry, particularly for candy. In this application, it is typically used for the glossy effect it produces, and to prevent the candy pieces from adhering to each other. It has been discouraged for use in children's foods, though it is still found in many candies, including Swedish Fish.[13]
It is added to some food products as a substitute for fat.
It is sometimes used as a lubricant in enema preparations, because most of the ingested material is excreted in the stool rather than being absorbed by the body.[14]
It is also used on cooking utensils or to grease cookware and bakeware to prevent food from sticking.
The use of food grade mineral oil is self-limiting because of its laxative effect. The maximum daily intake is calculated to be about 100 mg, of which some 80 mg are contributed from its use on machines in the baking industry.[14]


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## Wildman (Nov 13, 2011)

I have used both BLO & MO doing CA finish. Have also used straight CA as a finish.  They work, using straight CA proved faster. Only advantage MO has over BLO is cost.

I stopped using CA as a finishing material.

JMO, neither BLO nor MO pop the figure/grain of wood. Any clear oil-water base top coating will enhance figure/grain of wood plus add depth of sheen.


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## NewLondon88 (Nov 13, 2011)

Wildman said:


> JMO, neither BLO nor MO pop the figure/grain of wood. Any clear oil-water base top coating will enhance figure/grain of wood plus add depth of sheen.



That is how the term 'pop' is used here. (I know, it's not what you are
used to) 

I suspect it comes not from traditional woodworking, where it means
to bring up the grain, but from photography where it means an increase
in color, contrast and/or saturation.


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## Wildman (Nov 13, 2011)

Check out this short video.
http://thewoodwhisperer.com/episode-32-pop-goes-the-maple/

Wetting wood with water will pop figure/ grain in a piece of wood. Water also raises fibers we sand off, leaving wood same dull color when dry. Wiping varnish (oil- varnish mix) will pop grain and add dull sheen to wood because dries hard. Oil varnish blends pop the grain too, but dry soft and sheen soon fades. It can be said of shellac oil/wax finishes too. 

You can tint almost all thinned oil water base clear topcoat finishes and pop figure/grain.  Some species of wood do not need to dye, clear finish absorbed by wood enhances existing figure/grain. Only water base dye I like is black India ink, which is opaque. Have had better luck with Trans tint dyes mixed with finish, forget mixing with water or alcohol. 

If you put CA, glue on wood first per instruction below applying oil will not pop the figure/ grain because CA acts as a sealer. Many folks that apply oil first to pop the grain end up with problems. You have to let oil soak in and dry before applying CA. 

So many variations on applying CA finish if what you are doing works stick with it.

CA Glue As A Finish
Michael Dresdner describes a unique method for using cyanoacrylate (CA) glue as a finish on his website, www.michaeldresdner.com. This finishing requires a slow acting CA glue, and the slower the better. Most of the "thick" varieties with a cure time of 1-minute will work. The application of the finish is quick and simple, and takes about as long as it takes the CA glue to cure. Using a faster glue requires a faster reaction on our part and increases the risk of permanently attaching the pen barrel to the mandrel (a risk whenever using CA glue on a pen) 
1.	Sand the pen to at least 600-grit, and wipe it clean with a clean paper towel. 
2.	Apply a liberal coat of the "Thick" CA Glue. Make sure it is a uniform coat that covers the entire pen. 
3.	Immediately apply a liberal coat of Boiled Linseed Oil. 
4.	Increase the lathe speed and buff the finish with the wet rag that was used to apply the Linseed Oil. 
5.	When the danger of slinging the finish in your face has passed, increase the lathe speed to as fast as it will go, and buff the finish with a clean towel until it is dry. 
The result will be a awesome gloss that will last longer than anything else that you can put on the wood. However, like all good things, there is a price to pay for the gloss and durability. This is a CA glue finish and it will have the appearance of being a plastic, and it will wear like a plastic rather than like a wood. The gloss finish on a plastic will become dull from the tiny scratches that are made on its surface from use and wear, while wood has the unique ability to take on a more polished patina when exposed to the same conditions.

Figured maple (curly, birdseye, or quilted) is a good example. It has lots of depth but its subtle, almost uniform color can leave the character hidden. Here are two simple ways to show it off to its best.
Boiled linseed oil is the simplest–and one of the most effective–tools to pop the figure. Slather the raw wood liberally, let the oil soak in for about 10 minutes, then wipe off all the excess. Let it dry overnight, and repeat the process if you like. The oil will add translucence and depth (called “chatoyance” in finishing parlance) without changing the color too much. Once the oil is dried overnight, seal it and finish it. If you are using a waterborne topcoat, it is wise to seal it first with dewaxed shellac. For lacquer or oil based coatings, the sealer coat is not needed.
A light stain will also add contrast to the figure. I like to use a very dilute water soluble dye in a moderately dark color. Flood it on, wipe it all off while it is still wet. Scrub with clear water and Scotchbrite® to make sure all of the excess is removed. You can even sand lightly once the wood dries to add more contrast. This will add a bit more color to the wood than the oil would, and will make the contrast in the figure or birdseyes even more dramatic.


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