# Pentarsia



## ctEaglesc

This is not your average inlay so I decided to use a new word to descibe it.
Pentarsia.
The name of the pen is
One for giving.
This started out as a test piece for another one I am making.
It passed all the tests.
There is a long story behind this pen, one which I will not bore you with.
Let me suffice to say I learned a lot in making this one.
TG baron, Deft spray laquer finish
The woods are Walnut, cherry and mahogany
The veneers are all cut and dyed by me.
*There was no tutorial available as to how to do this so I winged it.*
_edit in,
(From inception to completion which included my wife's design work took 6 weeks)
_
I finished it too late for Johnny's contest(on purpose).)It was finished on or about 10/17.
It will be donated to the auction.
_ue to the offensive nature of this picture(Crucifix in window I have removed it)_

_Edit in and mea culpa_
My wifes design was integral to much of the complexity of the inlay.I told her what I wanted to inlude but asked her not to be concerned what could or could not be done in regards to size or physical danger(I don't take chances with body parts)Had I seen what was involved before I started it I may not have set out to do it.
Each step created yet another problem or technique that needed to be solved or mastered.
Tutorials do nothing but inhibit imagination.


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## terry q

I was doing a quick fly thru this morning but had to stop and put on my other glasses.  Your pen is fantastic, very imaginative.  There is a lot of talent and inspiration on this forum.

Terry


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## bdar

Eagle what can I say. Legend, genius and amazing. Great work your are a master at what you do.

Bdar


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## woodscavenger

I am sitting here looking at this and am absolutely speechless.  What a fantastic job!  My only comment would be that I think the sharp angles of the pen would lend itself very nicely to an Emporer.  BTW that comment in no way detracts from that pen.  I think you need to add a music link in the background of this page with a choir singing.


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## coach

Wow Eagle!  This pen must be why you have not posted anything lately.  This one is simply amazing!  You really out did yourself this time!  The detail is unbelieveable.  I keep seeing different aspects each time I look.  I do like how the cross is interwoven.  I assume the rest of the pen is bricks?  Great idea and execution.  How long did this one take?  Did you do all of this in one try?


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## Woodnknots

Holy @#$@!!  I don't know what else to say...  I am soooo going to try some inlay and laminating when I have some time to do projects that aren't mandated by other people...

p.s. sorry for the profanity, I'll try to tone it down from now on, but only if Eagle promises not to just SPRING these things on us anymore, but gives us some sort of advanced warning!!


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## Woodnknots

BTW, Eagle, I know how you feel about tutorials, etc... and I think I agree with you, discovery is a better teacher... But could you please post a photo of a blank sometime before you turn it just so those of us that might need help thinking outside the box could get a tiny push?
Thanks,
Dave


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## BigRob777

Eagle,
WOW!  Awesome theme[].  Amazing work!  Does this have anything to do with our conversation?  BTW, your pile's getting high.
Rob


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## Jim Boyd

Still inspiring me I see[] Fantastic! Makes me really want to see the other one[]


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## Gary Max

A work of Art----just amazing.
I would hate to think of how many hours of work went into that pen.
Thanks for posting the pics


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## wdcav1952

Eagle,

The word masterpiece is, and will continue to be, overused.  It applies here, and perhaps is inadequate.  Just curious, did one of your forebears cut an ear off?

Truly an awesome masterpiece.


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## Ron Mc

Absolutely amazing. You pens continue to amaze and inspire me. Thanks for sharing!


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## ctEaglesc

> _Originally posted by wdcav1952_
> <br />Eagle,
> 
> The word masterpiece is, and will continue to be, overused.  It applies here, and perhaps is inadequate.  _Just curious, did one of your forebears cut an ear off?_
> Truly an awesome masterpiece.



I had an uncle who grew corn but he didn't cut the ears off with a knife he just sort of snapped them off by hand when they were ready.[^]


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## rtjw

Eagle, I dont know which one of us had more fun with this pen. I am glad you decided to post it. I have made me a great friend, the auction alot of money and me a pen also, or should I say two pens also[].


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## wpenm

Wow! There is no way my old, fat and arthritc fingers could even work with pieces that small. Great job.


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## Mudder




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## ashaw

Eagle

Wonderful piece of Art.  Your inlays are truely amazing.  Now this is a $500.00 + pen.[]..  I cannot wait to see the next pen...  
Good work

Alan


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## btboone

Very nice work.  The color and detail of the stained glass windows make it a special one.  It should certainly do well at the auction.


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## Dario

Eagles,

I can't say anything that is not said yet...I agree with everyone, you've outdone yourself yet another time.  I am sure this will rake in a lot of money for the hospital/kids.

Now, if only they can come up with the "POPE" version of the Emperor kit [].


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## Ron in Drums PA

Intarisa - Pentarisa, who cares!

This is one of the best, if not the very best example, I have ever seen.

Most Excellant! I tip my hat to you sir!


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## ctEaglesc

> _Originally posted by Ron in Drums PA_
> <br />Intarisa - Pentarisa, who cares!
> 
> This is one of the best, if not the very best example, I have ever seen.
> 
> Most Excellant! I tip my hat to you sir!



Thanks Ron.
I have not seen anything like this style done which is why I chosed the term "pentarsia_"(it sounded better than pencatry which is closley related)[]_ 
 I don't like searching for ideas from other's peoples work.
If an idea I come up with has been done before I would like to think I made the"discovery" on my own.
If you know of any all wood inlays done in a similar style I would appreciate the links.
I still like the term _Pentarsia_, I wouldn't even attempt intarsia,I have no isda of what I am doing on the scroll saw.


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## btboone

Eagle, with your vacuum saw fence how thin can you normally make veneer material.  The stuff I got at WoodCraft is .020" and seems to work well for my spirals.  It's very consistant and is flexible if I soak it.  I'll need to either find some or make some in Olivewood.


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## ctEaglesc

The yellow "rays" are .016
That is the thickness of 3 pieces of blue masking tape.
(DAMHIKT)[]


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## Ron in Drums PA

Eagle, It very well deserves it's own name. This pen is kicked up more than a few notches above any intarsia.


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## fritzmccorkle

that is awesome eagle.


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## alamocdc

[:0][:0][:0][:0][:0][:0][:0] Eagle, anything I might say would be meaningless compared to the design, craftsmanship and beauty of this magnificent work of art.[^][^][^]


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## ctEaglesc

> _Originally posted by alamocdc_
> <br />[:0][:0][:0][:0][:0][:0][:0] Eagle, anything I might say would be meaningless compared to the design, craftsmanship and beauty of this magnificent work of art.[^][^][^]


Go ahead and try.
Even with the flaws I feel good about this one,
(he said smugly and selfrighteously)[]


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## darbytee

Eagle, I can't say anything that hasn't already been said. Beautiful work. Absolutely amazing.


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## vick

Eagle,
  I am in awe at this one, truly awesome work.


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## jbyrd24

Wish I had your evidently boundless patience and skill.[]


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## Fearless

[8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D]
[:0][:0][:0][:0][:0][:0][:0][:0][:0][:0][:0]
[8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D]
[:0][:0][:0][:0][:0][:0][:0][:0][:0][:0][:0]
[8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D]


STUNNING!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Fangar

Eagle,

I too am glad you posted this one.  It is very much something that will no doubt inspire others, which is what this forum is all about.  I've seen the blank for this one folks and let me tell you that looking at it made me a little squirmish.  I could see me going into the fetal positon (In my turning skirt of course) on my cold concrete garage floor when I blew it into 6,457 pieces with my chisel. I definately can't hold my breath for 6 weeks either.  

Wondeful artwork by your wife too.

Fangar


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## JimGo

Eagle, this is, without a doubt, the most beautiful pen you've made (in my ever-so-humble opinion).  Absolutely amazing.


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## Tom McMillan

Awesome pen Eagle!!  Great work!!!![]


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## ctEaglesc

Please note no staars were used in the construction of this pen.


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## GregD

Just got home from selling all my pens at a craft show. This pen makes me think I cheated thoes people. Awsome job Eagle!!


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## swm6500

As Mudder said, jawdropping. Great work Eagle.


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## melogic

It does me proud to be able to say I share in the same forum as the original Pentarsia creator. Words cannot describe this one Eagle. Thank you for sharing pictures on this one and thank the misses for all she does as well. Awesome, awesome job!


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## wicook

Eagle,

WOW!! It's all been said...


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## Rifleman1776

Eagle, my friend. As one who considers himself a wordsmith, you have exceeded my abilities to express admiration for the art in that creation.


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## ldimick

Very Nice!


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## gerryr

I think I'm speechless.  That is a truly fabulous piece of work, very artistic and masterfully executed.


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## Old Griz

Sweet... tooo tooo sweet for words... like Frank.. there are no words to describe it... just TOOO SWEET


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## PenWorks

[:0]  Wonderfull Eagle [:0]


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## airrat

CONGRATZ!!  you have taken it another step.  Very nice pen.
I too would love to see a picture of the blank before you start.  After seeing Fangar's post, I am really interested.


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## JHFerrell

Eagle, How you do it is way beyond me. I for one love the term Pentarsia...seems really appropriate to me. I know its been said before but there really are no words to express just how beautiful this one is. You are indeed a Masterful Pen Making Guy!


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## arjudy

WOW!


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## Mac In Oak Ridge

In spite of being a PITA you are one wonderful craftsman!


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## rtjw

HMMM, mac I wonder that is a compliment or an insult.


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## Darley

Great pen Eagle, what's the next brew?


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## Fangar

I spoke to Eagle today.  His Computer took a doodoo.  Hopefully he will back up soon to badger me and see all of the nice comments you folks have left for him.  I know he worked very hard on this pen.  I think it even greater that he intends on donating it to the charity.

Fangar


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## Paul in OKC

That is truely an amazing pen. Great work, Eagle.


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## laserturner

Eagle,
Excellent work. I too am glad you posted it. Very inspiring.


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## Czarcastic

Eagle:
You honored me with a "preview" of this pen last week, and asked me not to say anything until you posted it.  That was easy to do because I was completely speechless when I saw it. 

I believe you have quite literally "raised the bar" on inventiveness, ingenuity, and technical expertise with this pen, and I thank you for posting it here.

<b>The fact that you are sending this for the hospital auction "_post-contest_" speaks volumes for the kind of person you really are. </b>

Thank you again for reenforcing my belief that the people who frequent this site are some of the best folks in the world.


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## Fred in NC

Quadruple WOW !!!!


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## ed4copies

> _Originally posted by Mac In Oak Ridge_
> <br />In spite of being a PITA you are one wonderful craftsman!



For those that don't really know Eagle, he also gives away bullet pens to service people he meets, day to day.

He may be blunt, but he's really an extraordinary GUY as well as a master "pentarsian". (Somebody call Webster, we're gonna need a few revisions).

I've already tried to tell him what I think of this effort and his decision to donate it.  

Yes, there are a number of outstanding PEOPLE on this forum and, in spite of some people's opinion, Eagle is one of them. (In my very informed opinion!!)


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## Rifleman1776

Ed, and others, yes, Eagle is a unique sort of person. And it shows in his determination to create new and exciting items. We have talked on the phone several times and I am always impressed with his ability to put facts into logical perspective. Sometimes that absolute narrow perspective can be frustrating but it is always educational. In my opinion, this pen could be submitted to his state art museum for display of a combination of craftmanship and art. Eagle doesn't think that way, he is giving it to a worthy cause and for that he is to be commended. I can't get that pen out of my mind. To say "WOW!" doesn't come close.


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## J. Fred Muggs

Eagle:
It was great meeting you and your wife a few weeks ago at Klingspor.  As I told you then, You do some of the most beautiful pens on this forum (or that other one that you don't want to be part of).  I have been inspired, and awed by the pictures of your work.  Even more so seeing some in person.  But this pen, This pen is giant leaps ahead of anything that even you have done and is unquestionably the very best of all I've seen on any forum.  Sir, my hat is off to you!!, and to your wife for her part in the design.

My I simply say thank you for all you do for penturning.


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## ctEaglesc

To all who have posted or sent e-mails I am very much appreciative.
There was a select group of members I speak with on a regular basis and each time I came to a stumbling block which subsequently was solved I sent  a preview.
Someday I may get around to posting some pictures of the different steps that were failures(and there were many believe me.)But not just now.
There are others in the works, others in my head(still constitutes being in the works.)
There will not be any tutorials on this one either.
Perhaps until you start something like this, you cannot imagine the feeling of jubilation when it all falls into place (by design or luck) .I would not want to rob anyone of that feeling of discovery or accomplishment.
I don't want to be the one who hollers out how the magician did his trick and spoil it.
In truth  it looks very complicated.It isn't.
Care must be paid to set up tools accurately(which you should be doing anyway)
All cuts were made on a tablesaw(Grizzly contractor so you don't need a $1500 unisaw to make accurate cuts.A $10.00 diablo blade, 7 & 1/4 inch so you don't need a Forrest woodworker blade that is over $100.00.
I also relied on a Dremel scroll saw(about $150 so you don't need anything real fancy.I bought mine used)
I dyed my own woods but naturally colored exotics will give a nice effect also(except for "Eagle's Elusive Blue")[^]
The body of the pen is a spiral segment with additional pieces used to give a "mortar" effect"
Except for the wood I Dyed, all the wood came from the scrap bin of local woodworkers in my town,some came from the trash.
<b>There are "secrets" I am not going to reveal just out of plain smug selfrightousness, live with it.[^]</b>As I said in the original post, this pen has a long story behind it that only 4 people know.
Myself,my wife Lynn, RTJW and D.C. Bluesman.(Cav knows a little bit but I don't want to give him any satisfaction by mentioning his name.)He's thumb his nose at it anyway[]
To all others, I swore you to secrecy so I will not betray our confidance.
I cannot explain how often this pen should have not come about and to tell you the truth I am in the process of finishing another and  I have gotten to the point I am almost afraid of it.
It is no more difficult than this one but a little different none the less.
This pen has acquired a couple of names.
<b>One for giving </b>is a misnomer and a play on words.
In truth this is the second one but the first one completed, hence the <b>"One".</b>
The <b>for giving </b>is purposely written that way because I am not selling it, I am giving it.
At no time was this pen ever intended to be in Jonnies contest.To be frank I didn't think this one would reach completion. I didn't even start turning it for drilling until the Thursday before the deadline.
Remember this was intended as a "test piece"
The finish was the first time I used a spray lacquer and I am very pleased with the results and plan to continue to use Deft right out of the aerosol can.
Anyway there was something spiritual about this pen.Weird things happend. Part way though doing the pentarsia inlay( really a glue up), the design was lost until  afer I completed the pen.&lt;ost of the tricky parts were done out of my head.It actually went easier because I relied on instinct rather than referring to what Lynn drew.
Miraculaously I found the design.I can't explain it so I am not even going to try.
I sometimes refer to it as the "Cross" pen but cringe when I catch myself.
I am starting to call it the "Cathedral" because whatI envisioned were the stones of a European Cathedral with stained glass windows in it.There are two windows.
Because I am  a human being I am not perfect, there is one more comment I want to make.
If you think this "sunshine thread" shouldn't be spoiled, don't read any farther.(I'll wait till you change the page)
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
._all right brave ones but I warned you_[]
I have noticed  a few members who decided not to comment on this pen one way or another.
Perhaps this pen is not <b>"spectacular"</b> enough for you, that's o.k.
It may be some real darn good work but I know where the flaws are so I also know it is not "technically perfect"
Just another pretty pen ... (maybe).
Perhaps someday I will make a<b> "spectacular pen" that is truly innovative.</b>BUT


_For today and until I mail this off to Johnnie, I can sit with my coffee and non-filtered cigarettes in the dim morning light at the dining room table while my wife and daughter are still sleeping, and smugly and self-righteously admire my own work knowing that I have never seen anything like this before, pinch myself and ask myself...
Did I really make this?Did this really emerge from my head travel through my hands and with the grace of my Highter Power come to completion?
'HMMMMMPH!



What am I going to do next?[]
<b>I am not satisfied with what I did yesterday.</b>_


<b>Maybe that is the mark of a craftsman.</b>
_"Argue your limitations and they are yours". Richard Bach_


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## rtjw

Thank you for letting me be a part of this process eagle. Something I will never forget.


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## ctEaglesc

> _Originally posted by rtjw_
> <br />Thank you for letting me be a part of this process eagle. Something I will never forget.



Not quite exactly what you envisioned when you aksed if I could put a "Cross" in a stained glass woodow pen blnak is it?[)]


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## rtjw

Not even close to what I imagined. I still am amazed when I look at it.


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## wdcav1952

Eagle,

Enjoy the accolades, you have earned them.  I was proud to be an insignificant portion of the process, which consisted of listening to your ideas and solutions to problems and wishing I could understand what you were saying!!  I am proud to say I've learned a few tricks from you that help me through some rough spots.

As far as those who are eager to zing you, and may I call myself one of your coharts, consider the source.  I know that you and Ron from Drums have had a conflict or two. However Ron stepped up to the plate and acknowledged your incredible pen.  For that, Ron, I salute you as a true gentleman.  As far as those whose silence is deafening, a small pew of sore thumbs sticks out in my mind.  

Those who operate at a higher plane of creativity are often misunderstood, I don't really understand you and your creative process, but please know that I appreciate being able to view the results.


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## ashaw

Eagle

You have done good.  I still go back and look at it and I am in wow over the pen.
I also respect you for not providing a tutoial on how to make it.  You are right there is a certain thrill in completing a project where the plans are only in your head.  

Again great work.


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## woodscavenger

Cathedral window is exactly what I had in mind.  Strong work.  BTW which Klingspor do you frequent?  There are only a few.


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## Ron in Drums PA

> _Originally posted by cteaglesc_
> It may be some real darn good work but I know where the flaws are so I also know it is not "technically perfect"
> Just another pretty pen ... (maybe).
> Perhaps someday I will make a* "spectacular pen" that is truly innovative.
> *


*


Sometimes we learn more from our flaws and our mistakes than we do from our achievements.

I know I do . . . at least in woodworking . . .*


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## 53Jim

YOU STOLE MY IDEA !!!!

Ya right.   

I'd have to be about 387 years old before I could do anything 1/64 that spectacular.

Great work of art.   You should be very, very proud of that pen/art.

****By the way, I was only kidding about stealing my idea.   No hard feelings??


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## tinker

Eagle, I posted a response over on woodnet, hope you read that one. When I was a struggling newbie and had no idea there was a penturners forum, you came to my rescue and that tells me all I need to know about you.
I will admit that I haven't liked all of the pens you have posted, but I admire your ability to make them.
This pen is in a class all by itself. In a juried show, nothing else would be in the same catagorie. You have no peers.
Looking forward to the next presentation.


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## pastorbill1952

Eagle I cannot even begin to comment on this extraordinary pen.  My eyes are too weak and my brain is too small to even contemplate how you did this. I do not think anyone will diagree with me when I say that you are among the elite of all penmakers.  I also count it a great privilege to know you and be able to count you among my friends.


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## angboy

Eagle- like everyone else, I am just amazed at what you've done in making this pen! I don't think I could even manage to hold onto all those little tiny pieces and not drop them, let alone be able to place them so specifically into a pattern and have them stay in place! 

Your wife was obviously very creative in the first step of creating such a lovely design, and your execution of it is amazing! The more I look at it and learn about it, the more I see the intricacies of this pen.

I know several pen makers who are not members of this forum (why not is beyond me) and once before I referred one of them (my dad) to a member's album that I was so impressed by. This was only the second time that something so impressed me that it immediately came to mind to do that again.

I started to not post feedback on this thread, because it seems like everything that could be said about this pen has been said many times and in all of the most expressive ways that I could think of to give the same feedback. But then I thought, well even if it's a repeat, it truly deserves the feedback and recognition.

All of your pens and blank designs are admirable. That's what accounts for my having an "ode to Eagle" pen in my album (even though it can't compare to your pen and is a blatant copying of your design). That's also why when I had reason to send Johnny an e-mail about something awhile ago, I lightly (but also seriously) told him that a great prize for the contest would be to get Eagle to donate a pen blank. Johnny may not even remember that suggestion, but it was made because I thought that would be a more coveted prize than even a new lathe worth several hundred dollars! And that was with even less stupendoues of your blanks in mind. (Please don't take that to mean that I am suggesting anything other than sharing it to illustrate the awe that I have for your pen blanks).

Like others have commented on, I also admire your not even entering this so that you would be eligible for a prize in the contest (you would have been a cinch to win and no one else would have had a chance). That truly demonstrates the totally giving feelings and thoughts that went into this.

Before I started with this pasttime, I know that I probably wouldn't have been able to look at one-of-a-kind had crafted pens and truly appreciated everything that went into it, particularly one such as this that involves so much more than the actual turning of the wood. I'm sure in this case that the turning part was minimal compared to everything else! But now that I have a little more knowledge about penturning, it is humble-ifying (I figure if you had to make up a new word to name the pen, it's not unexpected that I have to make up a new word in talking about it) to be able to see what someone could make when they put such heart, artistic talent, and just plain old hard work into making a pen.

Now this Ode to Eagle has gotten long (I can be wordy at times) so I think that's all I'll say!


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## ctEaglesc

Angboy-
It would have pen O.K. if you had just said 
<b>NPGJ</b> 
 I sincerly appreciate your comments.
As a matter of fact, I think I will read it again.[]
(there goes that ole' smug self-righteous me again)[^]
BTW
_"I don't think I could even manage to hold onto all those little tiny pieces and not drop them, let alone be able to place them so specifically into a pattern and have them stay in place!" 
_
the truth is with the CA, some times the hardest part was getting the pieces unstuck from my fingers


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## fritzmccorkle

> _Originally posted by cteaglesc_
> <br />Angboy-
> It would have pen O.K. if you had just said
> NPGJ
> 
> she can be wordy at times.  hahahaha
> ps...what does "NPGJ" mean?


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## alamocdc

NPGJ = Nice Pen Good Job


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## mick

Eagle I've searched the English dictionary and can't find the right word. In the A's were Amazing and Astonishing. Browsing the B's I came upon Beautiful and Brilliant, C's brought forth Creative and Cunning......well you get the picture .....in the end all I can say is [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]


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## rtparso

OK you old cuss (said with love) you said 
	
	




		Code:
	

I have noticed a few members who decided not to comment on this pen one way or another.
Perhaps this pen is not "spectacular" enough for you, that's o.k.

How about the only thing I could think to say was how the heck did you do that!!! To which you would have replied??? My comments on this one you pulled the colors together (a critique I had of an earlier pen). You amaze me that you can glue up the like that and see what it is going to come out as. 
	
	




		Code:
	

It may be some real darn good work but I know where the flaws are so I also know it is not "technically perfect"
Just another pretty pen ... (maybe).

Only one man made anything perfect. And it only took a little while for us to screw it up. Your pens are absolutely amazing what else can I say. Give me a call sometime you got the number.


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## timdaleiden

> _Originally posted by wdcav1952_
> <br />As far as those who are eager to zing you, and may I call myself one of your coharts, consider the source.  I know that you and Ron from Drums have had a conflict or two. However Ron stepped up to the plate and acknowledged your incredible pen.  For that, Ron, I salute you as a true gentleman.  As far as those whose silence is deafening, a small pew of sore thumbs sticks out in my mind.



 Gosh William, it almost sounds like you calling my name here. I have been busy learning all sort of new things about Web design lately, and I usually don't comment on pens presented anyway. 

 I will say that it is nice that he (I just can't call him Eagle) is donating a pen to a worthy cause. I think it's great that so many people helped Johnny with this great cause. I really believe in helping children. 

Tim


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## arioux

This is the first time i comment on a pen because i am a real beginner and i don't think that i have expertise to critisize someone work but with this one, no need to be an expert and no way i can stay silent.

Do i hate you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Each time i think that i'm going somewhere with my turning, i stumble on one of your pen. !!!!!
Boy do you set the bar at a level that i don't even think of reaching.

Do i love you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You show me that one individual with enough willpower and imagination can achive great thing and i really think that this pen id a GREATÂ thing.


Alfred


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## TheHoneymooners

My goodness! WHAT A PEN!!!!  When I logged in and saw the 6 pages, I knew this had to be something else and not bad, since it wasn't locked LOL

Without a doubt, the most beautiful, well-executed and thought out instrument to be introduced to us here.  

Now-- Johnny might need to bend a rule at the auction-- I'd LOVE to know what this masterpiece will bring for the hospital!!! )

Congrats to you and your wife on an exceptional collaboration!!

Now. Whats next? )


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## wdcav1952

It was not my intention to call out anyone with my previous post.  I simply felt that this was the most amazing pen I had had the pleasure to see and was worthy of comment.  If anyone feels personally attacked, I regret that.  For anyone who feels that they were the intended recipient of my post, please note my new signature line.


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## Randy_

> _Originally posted by cteaglesc_
> <br />...Even with the flaws I feel good about this one...



And rightly so.  A very fine piece of work!!


----------



## rtjw

> _Originally posted by TheHoneymooners_
> <br />
> 
> Now-- Johnny might need to bend a rule at the auction-- I'd LOVE to know what this masterpiece will bring for the hospital!!! )


This pen will bring more money than all the other pens combined. I know this because I am bidding on it. And there is a surprise going to happen at the auction!


----------



## rtjw

> _Originally posted by rtjw_
> <br />
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Originally posted by TheHoneymooners_
> <br />
> 
> Now-- Johnny might need to bend a rule at the auction-- I'd LOVE to know what this masterpiece will bring for the hospital!!! )
> 
> 
> 
> This pen will bring more money than all the other pens combined. I know this because I am bidding on it. And there is a surprise going to happen at the auction!
Click to expand...


This post in no way says anything bad about anybody's pens. As Eagle stated in his first post on this pen, It has a long story behind it. I in no way think that everyone else's pen is less than his. It is something that has been talked about and discussed (and cussed) about over the last six or seven weeks. There are personal reasons why I am bidding on this pen myself. 

This contest has totally been about the hospital getting as much money as possible in order to help the children. It has always been that way and will always be that way.

I am not putting pens in myself to this contest because I do not want to show any hint of improper motives. My gift to the contest will be a gift to the hospital. I have tried not to say anything about it and will continue not to say anything about it. Eagle and the hospital knows my intentions and that is really all that need to know.

No surprises for eagle or anyone else. Only the hospital.


----------



## ashaw

Johnny

I think what you and Eagle are doing for the hospital is great.  You have put a lot of hard working and most likely your own money into to this project.  We all proud what you have done and what Eagle has done.  


Alan
Alan


----------



## rtjw

> _Originally posted by timdaleiden_
> <br />
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Originally posted by wdcav1952_
> <br />As far as those who are eager to zing you, and may I call myself one of your coharts, consider the source.  I know that you and Ron from Drums have had a conflict or two. However Ron stepped up to the plate and acknowledged your incredible pen.  For that, Ron, I salute you as a true gentleman.  As far as those whose silence is deafening, a small pew of sore thumbs sticks out in my mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gosh William, it almost sounds like you calling my name here. I have been busy learning all sort of new things about Web design lately, and I usually don't comment on pens presented anyway.
> 
> I will say that it is nice that he (I just can't call him Eagle) is donating a pen to a worthy cause. I think it's great that so many people helped Johnny with this great cause. I really believe in helping children.
> 
> Tim
Click to expand...


I just got off the phone with Eagle, he is changing is ISP and his server is down. He would like to acknowledge all the positive comments made about this pen that was inspired by noah.


----------



## Woodbutcher68

I just took my first look at this pen and am at a loss for the words to describe it. Every compliment that could be given has been and I agree with all of them.  Eagle is a true artist in every sense of the word. Artists are different from the rest of us in that they will see and attempt things that the rest of us view as impossible, and they will complete those endeavours. I have had the pleasure of knowing a few artists,(my girlfriend has her Masters in Art from Notre Dame)and know that they hear a different drum than the rest of us.
I have had a couple of e-mail exchanges with Eagle in the past and respect both his work and his opinions.
On a side note, it would be great to see the pen and its creator featured in a Woodturning magazine article. 
Sorry Eagle, but that's just my opinion!


----------



## MDWine

It must be said that this is quite a piece of art, and a magnificent work.
"NPGJ" just isn't enough.
Congratulations to you on an extremely beautiful piece of work.


----------



## Rifleman1776

This post has been viewed more than 2000 time and replied to about 85 in five days. Sadly, any thread that lasts that long will generate some negativity. Hard to understand. But even with as magnificant a creation as this pen, it happens. I suggest the 'downer' comments be ignored. For inspiration, just look at the pen and it's subject matter. Inspiration.


----------



## Randy_

> _Originally posted by Rifleman_
> <br />....I suggest the 'downer' comments be ignored. For inspiration, just look at the pen and it's subject matter....



Right on, Frank.  I wholeheartedly agree!!!


----------



## Fleabit

MAN!!  I get deployed for a bit and look what pops up.  The amount of time and effort to figure out those cuts makes my brain hurt (I don't like to over excercise mine too often lol).  Again, you turned out a beautiful piece of craftsmanship.  How many times did you pass out holding your breath assembling the pieces and the final pen?! []


----------



## ctEaglesc

Whenever cuts were made I haeld my breath.
When I cut  the "window in half I held my breath and closed my eyes after I set up the table saw.
The first time I put a chishel on it I held my breath, put on my headset magnifer and said a prayer.
After that with the blessing of Saint Caglue everything went o.k.


----------



## Ron in Drums PA

Hey Eagle

This may have been asked, if so sorry.

But can you tell us the woods that where used?


----------



## ctEaglesc

> _Originally posted by Ron in Drums PA_
> <br />Hey Eagle
> 
> This may have been asked, if so sorry.
> 
> But can you tell us the woods that where used?


Tree wood[]
Check out my original post


----------



## Ron in Drums PA

Okay... I guess I should look closer.[:I]

What wood did you use for the dyed yellow veneer or the bleeched white veneer? Certainly not walnut cherry or mahogany.


----------



## ctEaglesc

It's Eglized wood, proprietary secret.


----------



## Ron in Drums PA

Thanks!!

BTW - Is that two stars I see below your name?


----------



## ctEaglesc

> _Originally posted by Ron in Drums PA_
> <br />Thanks!!
> 
> BTW - Is that two stars I see below your name?


You are  welcome .
IIRC you didn't let out much info about your "masterpiece"
Yep 2 stupid stars


----------



## Ron in Drums PA

[8D]


----------



## alamocdc

We all have our little secrets. [] Mine just haven't looked quite as spectacular as y'alls... yet. []


----------



## jeff

> _Originally posted by cteaglesc_
> Yep 2 stupid stars


What's it worth to you if I can make it so you can turn off the stars and the post count? [?][8D]


----------



## ctEaglesc

> _Originally posted by jeff_
> <br />
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Originally posted by cteaglesc_
> Yep 2 stupid stars
> 
> 
> 
> What's it worth to you if I can make it so you can turn off the stars and the post count? [?][8D]
Click to expand...

It depends if you include that all posts are written in black with the same font.


----------



## Ron in Drums PA

> _Originally posted by cteaglesc_
> It depends if you include that all posts are written in black with the same font.



Would you want signatures like that too?  []


----------



## wdcav1952

> _Originally posted by jeff_
> <br />
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Originally posted by cteaglesc_
> Yep 2 stupid stars
> 
> 
> 
> What's it worth to you if I can make it so you can turn off the stars and the post count? [?][8D]
Click to expand...


Score one for the Forum Administrator!!!!!!![][][][][]


----------



## ctEaglesc

> _Originally posted by jeff_
> <br />
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Originally posted by cteaglesc_
> Yep 2 stupid stars
> 
> 
> 
> What's it worth to you if I can make it so you can turn off the stars and the post count? [?][8D]
Click to expand...

Leave or take them out.
People stopped using stars that meant anything a long time ago.
Screw the libs and their P.C. worlds


----------



## jvsank

Nice job the pen


----------



## wdcav1952

Eagle,

I think you are just trying to boost the post count now! [}]


----------



## ctEaglesc

> _Originally posted by wdcav1952_
> <br />Eagle,
> 
> I think you are just trying to boost the post count now! [}]


Iwas going to saty the same thing about you...
3000views!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Rifleman1776

"3000views!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

That's better than stars anytime! []


----------



## Ron in Drums PA

Think of the 3000+ views as little points of light in the night sky.


----------



## ctEaglesc

> _Originally posted by Rifleman_
> <br />"3000views!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
> 
> That's better than stars anytime! []


I think if I Added up all the times I asked Jeff to reset my PC it might add up to 3000, but this is definately better
(Shameless post to increase replies)


----------



## rtgleck

Hey Eagle,  I can't say anything more than what's already been said, but I would like you to know I too really like the pen.   I think you did a wonderful job.  

Randy


----------



## Texas Taco

One word.......................................................

WOW


----------



## rtjw

Well, I received the pen this morning. WOW is all I can say. Of course, not to brag or anything, the blank that was made for me looks better than this one in my opinion. Scared to death to turn it. I am so scared I made Eagle drill it for me! I may just take sand paper and sand it until it gets down to the bushings.


----------



## atvrules1

Wow Eagle.  I've been posting on your other pens trying to figure out what to say about this one, and I don't think words can do it justice.  Your creativity and ability sure put me to shame.  I'm just glad that you post these pens so that I have something to aspire to.  Just be aware that you have a fan here.


----------



## jhinze

I've been absent for a couple of weeks and just saw that incredible piece of art. Amazing... I don't have words to express the craftsmanship that went into that pen.


----------



## ctEaglesc

I have the idea that this topic will be locked soon.
Thanks to all who posted,apologies to all I offended by making a pen with a religous theme.


----------



## Darley

No offence to any one here Eagle with your pen ( only Rock Brain Born may think )just curious how many people who will go to the minight Christmas service at they church and have a glimmer of your pen when looking to the stained-glass church window []like the pen you done an execlent work, have a good Christmas and post your new brew next year[]


----------



## Skye

Have to bump this for the new peeps. Killer pen [:0]


----------



## Ron in Drums PA

> _Originally posted by Skye_
> <br />Have to bump this for the new peeps. Killer pen [:0]



Are you by chance related to him in any way?

He deleted all the images of his pens before he left. 

It's funny how they showed up.


----------



## wood-of-1kind

Ron, be nice now. THe 'birdman' may come back and strike you with his beak.

-Peter-[]


----------



## Ron Mc

HHHMMMM.....An Eagle does fly in the Sky. Wrong spelling but sounds the same.


----------



## JimGo

I'm glad he chose to at least share this one.  It's still a heck of a pen!


----------



## Ron Mc

Your right Jim it is an amazing pen.


----------



## Skye

No, I would say more of a doppelganger, but different people for sure.

Well, the pen was one of the first I saw on the forum, one of the first I copied to my hard drive. New members here mean people havent seen it. So, a bump is in order. 

The pic has always been on the board. It's the one pic he left behind. The fact that someone thought it was removed is proof that the thread has gotten a little too dusty.

Like him or hate him, you cant deny it's one of the best pens on the site. The post count speaks for itself.


----------



## airrat

Skye he did delete it in his "stepping out".  I tried to pull it up and asked myself WHAT is going on with all his post.


----------



## Johnathan

This is the first time I've seen this pen and am simply amazed. I have no words, and believe me, my wife will tell you that's pretty hard to do! Bravo! Bravissimo!


----------



## Jim15

That is one great pen, beautiful work.

jim


----------



## Ron in Drums PA

My problem is eagle's total disdain for Jeff, IAP, and everyone who visits IAP. Eagle will, at the slightest opportunity start an argument just to bash IAP and it's members. Eagle will belittle anyone who doesn't fit his world view

http://www.thepenshop.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=928&KW=eagle


This post is about as clam as Eagle gets. many of his threads have been deleted by his good friend rtjw, who, for those of you who don't know is the owner of The Pen Shop.


----------



## Skye

I'm a member of IAP and he doesnâ€™t hate me, so I would say that alone makes your generalized comment false. Even further, there are what, a couple thousand members here? Should we take a poll and see how many people he's argued with? Apparently he has a 'distain' for 'everyone who visits IAP' so he surely must hate every single member.

I think the main problem is he upset the squeaky wheels. Hurt the delicate feelings of a few people who shout the loudest, next thing you know he hates every living soul with www.penturners.org in their computer's cache.

The problem is, you dislike him so much it's forcing you to make broad-brush, over dramatized, concocted generalized accusations. If you simply said that he pissed off a dozen people, that would be a little more accurate. To say he has a distain for every member just for visiting the site makes you look like someone hell bent on a personal tirade.


----------



## wood-of-1kind

Must be an eagle flying high in the skye. Very distinct prose. Thanks for not hating me.

-Peter-[]


----------



## wayneis

eagle pissed off way more than "a couple dozen" people and chased many more than that off the IAP site so excuse me if some of us don't shed a tear now that he is gone.   He's the most hurtfull and hatefull person that I have ever had the displeasure to meet.

Wayne


----------



## Rifleman1776

Eagle is an individual with an artists temprament. I frequently do not agree with things he says or how he says them. So what? If you don't like something here, read and move on. I am a member at both forums, we are friends. It's an electronic forum, for peety's sake. You don't like something, just click the X. There are more important things in this world to get riled over. I wish I had a 1/10th of his talent.


----------



## coach

Have any of you that "hate" Eagle so much even spoken to him?  I enjoy my conversations with him.  He is a really nice guy and is hillarious.  I do tend to be on the phone for a long time when we talk.  Word of warning.  If you are soft, you might not like it.  He will tell you what he thinks and what is on his mind.  I find that refreshing!


----------



## coach

Also, for those trying to hint that Eagle is Skye, you are wrong.  Eagle is old enough to be Skye's father, but he isn't.


----------



## Skye

> _Originally posted by Rifleman_peety's sake



It's "Pete's Sake"! That makes me so upset, I think I'm going to hate you for ever and ever. Not only that but I'll punch you in the eye if we ever get a TPS meeting in my area. Me... maaaaaaaaaad!

Lol, no, I'm not the fruit-o-his-loins, that's for throwing that nugget in there! []


----------



## Ron in Drums PA

> _Originally posted by Skye_
> <br />I'm a member of IAP and he doesnâ€™t hate me, so I would say that alone makes your generalized comment false. Even further, there are what, a couple thousand members here? Should we take a poll and see how many people he's argued with? Apparently he has a 'distain' for 'everyone who visits IAP' so he surely must hate every single member.
> 
> I think the main problem is he upset the squeaky wheels. Hurt the delicate feelings of a few people who shout the loudest, next thing you know he hates every living soul with www.penturners.org in their computer's cache.
> 
> The problem is, you dislike him so much it's forcing you to make broad-brush, over dramatized, concocted generalized accusations. If you simply said that he pissed off a dozen people, that would be a little more accurate. To say he has a distain for every member just for visiting the site makes you look like someone hell bent on a personal tirade.






If you read the other posts in that thread, you will notice that two highly respected moderatators of TPS say the same thing as I did.


----------



## Ron in Drums PA

> _Originally posted by Rifleman_
> <br />Eagle is an individual with an artists temprament.




That is totally absurd and ridiculous. I know many artists and not one of them are not as crude and obnoxious as eagle.


----------



## JimGo

Anybody up for a pickle?


----------



## wayneis

A couple of you are throwing around the word Hate and thats a pretty strong word.  I haven't read every post in these nine pages but I have not seen anyone saying that they Hate Eagle or anyone else for that matter.  I don't happen to hate anyone, I can't say that I like Eagle but I don't really tend to like every person that I end up meeting.  Eagle may have been granted a little more latitude if he had not taken all the shots at Jeff, the person who makes this site availiable to us.  There's a lot of us here that appriciate that Jeff has spent the time and money to create the IAP and to see anyone have a vendetta towards him is a bit much to put up with.  Eagle brought on his own grief, it seemed that each time he got mad he took it out on Jeff and baited him, I have to hand it to Jeff because he put up with a whole lot more than I ever would have.

Now enough of this banter for me, I'm going to make some pens and put this crap behind me.

Wayne


----------



## gerryr

Yea, where's a pickle pen when you really need it.[]


----------



## dfurlano

This is totally against my personal rules of forum etiquette; I never make comments on threads like this.

However, I am compelled to say something, much like slowing to view the after math of an auto accident.  

Ron is correct in this.  Eagle is ghosting this forum right now with a big smile on his face because of the controversy it stirs. His repeated demonstrations of bitterly loathing anyoneâ€™s opinion along with his contemptuous and condescending remarks are in his mind the only way of establishing credibility. Eagle feeds of the cleaving of people who will put his behavior above anything else and use them as a tool against those who will not tolerate his behavior.  He is a far more destructive influence with his behavior then anything he can or could ever produce.  I am not impressed by or concerned with people that act this way.


----------



## ilikewood

OK OK!!  I will finally say something on this matter.  I usually keep my mouth shut (fingers quiet), but I will say something on this matter.

First of all, I have never had a problem with Eagle and had many dealings with him.  I have read some of his posts and can see how he has really angered some people.  He is entitled to his opinion....BUT, sometimes it is best when things are left un-said.

I have have read where some think it is nice to hear the truth and people being straight forward.  I too agree with this...to a point.  Sometimes the truth does NOT need to be said.  I definitely would not go up to some seriously ugly person and say, "Gee, you sure are UGLY!".  

Sometimes you need to think of the other person first, before you type or open your mouth.  Sometimes you need some serious discretion and approach the subject in a different manner to avoid hurting other people or causing a fight.  Deep thought should procede touchy subjects.  I'm not talking about avoiding subjects, just wording them in a way to keep the fights from starting.

I know Eagle could have done this, he just chose not to.  

Now that is MY opinion![]


----------



## Skye

> _Originally posted by JimGo_
> <br />Anybody up for a pickle?



If you cant talk like a grown adult and feel the need to throw childish pickle pictures in here, go for it. People skirt the issue when they canâ€™t talk like grown up. Itâ€™s rather sad considering what it robs each party.



> _Originally posted by dfurlano_
> However, I am compelled to say something, much like slowing to view the after math of an auto accident.



Struggle is a part of life. Itâ€™s hard to keep your hands clean and occasionally you have to just get involved even though you feel you shouldnâ€™t. The idea is to try and bridge both sides a little if possible. So many people want to shut down a post like this or ruin it with moronic derailing rather than hashing it out. 



> _Originally posted by dfurlano_
> Eagle feeds of the cleaving of people



If you feel that way, you feel that way. To say it as fact though is just an educated assumption on your part. Only person to know if he â€˜feedsâ€™ on it is him. From what I know of him, thatâ€™s not the case. If that were true, TPS would be nothing but a flame fest from morning to night. Itâ€™s not the case. So, that somewhat negates that idea.

Speaking of cleaving people, why were people upset that I bumped this thread? Itâ€™s a great pen and I doubt anyone would deny that. If they would, they probably wouldent if Jeff had created the pen. It would be the greatest thing since the lightbulb. Some people dislike Eagle so much that they cant stand to see his post of a great pen bumped. I simply bump it, people start their smart ass remarks. I see that as cleaving as well.


----------



## dfurlano

Somehow you just justified my comments.


----------



## Ron in Drums PA

> _Originally posted by wayneis_
> <br />A couple of you are throwing around the word Hate and thats a pretty strong word.



Interestingly, the only ones throwing the word hate around are two of eagles friends.

I don't hate eagle, I pity him. 
I think it's really sad.
I figure he must be a very lonely person with too much time on his hands.


----------



## JimGo

> _Originally posted by Skye_
> <br />
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Originally posted by JimGo_
> <br />Anybody up for a pickle?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you cant [sic] talk like a grown adult and feel the need to throw childish pickle pictures in here, go for it. People skirt the issue when they canâ€™t talk like grown up [sic]. Itâ€™s rather sad considering what it robs each party.
Click to expand...

I agree.  Unfortunately, when presumably intelligent, respectful conversants resort to personal attacks ("if you cant [sic] talk like a grown adult..."), it really cheapens the entire conversation.  If you go back a few posts, I did "talk like a grown up", and said something positive, both about the fact that the pen pic had been re-posted here, and about the pen itself.  Also, if you're going to pick on someone's writing style, you should be careful to proofread what you write.

Before you spout off again, I would encourage you to go back and read the Christmas thread in which Eagle personally attacked me on several occasions.  Then tell me which of us was more childish.

Also, I find your footer very telling.


----------



## jkoehler

i would just like to add...
it is amazing how much trouble Eagle is stirring up and he hasnt even been here for a few months.
he doesnt even post anyhting and "poop hits the fan".
i would imagine that if Eagle is reading this, and i would imagine that he keeps tabs on this site, he is laughing hysterically at the lasting effect that he is having on the people here. 
as they say " Let sleeping dogs lie".

Just my 2cents.

Jeff


----------



## Skye

> _Originally posted by JimGo_
> I agree.  Unfortunately, when presumably intelligent, respectful conversants resort to personal attacks ("if you cant [sic] talk like a grown adult..."), it really cheapens the entire conversation.  If you go back a few posts, I did "talk like a grown up", and said something positive, both about the fact that the pen pic had been re-posted here, and about the pen itself.



So, you agree, but you think the use of a picture of a pickle to derail a post isnt childish? Hm. Maybe I should throw a picture of a gerkin in every post on the board seeing how it's adult behaviour. 



> Also, if you're going to pick on someone's writing style, you should be careful to proofread what you write.



Not sure where I did that. Where was that?



> Before you spout off again, I would encourage you to go back and read the Christmas thread in which Eagle personally attacked me on several occasions.  Then tell me which of us was more childish.



Spout off? I think that's part of the problem here. Any view other than your own and I'm 'spouting off'. I'm looking for people to stay on topic, not derail the thread, people to give the pen it's due, people to allow a post of a <b>pen</b> to be seen by newcomers. Last I heard this was a pen forum and that's what it's here for. Problem is people cant get past the artist and see the art. That's messed up.



> Also, I find your footer very telling.



This forum makes that apparent. It's the reason I made it. People here are so thin skinned, I dont get it. I've been straight up, cordial as I can in this thread but people are still freaking out like I'm killing their dogs. TPS is a nice oais for some of us. We can actually say if we dont like someone's pen without them freaking out... well, aside from one person. [B)]

I'm trying to get a real conversation going here. This isnt so much about Eagle as it is about poor communication. If it dosent get better, it's going to get locked and it's not going to benifit anyone. That's a waste.



> _Originally posted by jkoehler_
> <br />i would just like to add...
> it is amazing how much trouble Eagle is stirring up and he hasnt even been here for a few months.



That's another thing. People see Eagle stirring up stuff. He's not here! How can he be doing anything? It's people and their sore feelings that are perpetuating it. We can all talk like civil people, if it gets out of control it's not Eagle's fault, he cant even post. Does nobody see that?


----------



## ilikewood

> We can all talk like civil people, if it gets out of control it's not Eagle's fault, he cant even post. Does nobody see that?



Just shows how many people he hurt that the subject is still so sore.  As I said, some truths need not be said.


----------



## Skye

"Have to bump this for the new peeps. Killer pen"

That's what I posted. If people's feelings are hurt, that's the way it is. They can get over it or not. However, to derail a post on a pen such as this isnt right. That pen is terrific, new people have joined and never seen it, it deserves to be seen. My post was simple, had nothing to do with Eagle, simply the pen. Taking your hurt feelings and gumming up a legit thread is a poor way to go. People may disagree with the way Eagle behaved here, but I disagree with the actions take by many here. Should I get upset and  hold a grudge? Derail everyone's posts here because they made me  mad? No, it's no way to act.

Let's take Ron for instance. He PMd me and called me a<b> troll</b> because he misunderstood something I said at IAP. I think that's pretty crappy, but have I posted anything cross about him that wasnâ€™t a PM straight back to him? Throw pictures of pickles in his pen show threads? No. And people think I'm the one off base...


----------



## coach

I think it is funny how those who complain about Eagle and his practices do the same in return.  Most of the time it is 10 fold.  Hypocritical I think.  Actually Eagle has never posted something positive on any of my work or really any of my posts for that matter.  I know how he feels about it then and I don't cry about it.  Most of the time it helps make me better.  It does not mean he thinks I am a bad person because of his opinion.  Now you are going to want to attack people because they are "eagle's friends."  

Go ahead and rip me, I won't cry!  Make sure you beg to get anyone banned who disagrees with you or agrees with someone you don't like.


----------



## Mudder

> _Originally posted by Rifleman_
> <br />If you don't like something here, read and move on. I am a member at both forums, we are friends. It's an electronic forum, for peety's sake. You don't like something, just click the X.



Very nice Frank,

I find it interesting that you don't practice what you preach.

Eagle is a very talented individual and even though he and I no longer speak on the phone I still consider him a friend. While this pen is absolutely geougeous I do find it to be quite interesting that he would delete all of his pictures but 1. I cannot understand why he would leave this one if he dislikes the IAP so much but I have my theories.



> _Originally posted by Skye_<br />
> Have to bump this for the new peeps. Killer pen
> ______________________________________________________________________
> www.thepenshop.net Leave your soft skin at the door.




Skye,


Seeing that the only time you seem to post is to start contraversy, or to keep it going, it's no wonder people accuse you of being related to him. 

Looking at your tag line I can see that you just like to be contraversial, did you ever stop to think that your tag line just might be hurting the credibility of that site? I am a member there to and I can see that many of the pens posted there also get "nice pen, good job" posts.


----------



## Ron in Drums PA

Quote from Skye from TPS 


> Well, I think a lot of the people there are a bunch of babies that somehow grew into adult bodies.




Quote from Skye from TPS 


> Anyone else noticed that Ron linked this thread over at IAP?
> 
> Seems like he's got a bit of a man crush on you Eagle. I think it's sweet.




Originally posted by Skye on IAP


> Let's take Ron for instance. He PMd me and called me a<b> troll</b> because he misunderstood something I said at IAP. I think that's pretty crappy, but have I posted anything cross about him that wasnâ€™t a PM straight back to him?




troll

    1. v.,n. [From the Usenet group alt.folklore.urban] To utter a posting on Usenet designed to attract predictable responses or flames; or, the post itself. Derives from the phrase â€œtrolling for newbiesâ€ which in turn comes from mainstream â€œtrollingâ€, a style of fishing in which one trails bait through a likely spot hoping for a bite. The well-constructed troll is a post that induces lots of newbies and flamers to make themselves look even more clueless than they already do, while subtly conveying to the more savvy and experienced that it is in fact a deliberate troll. If you don't fall for the joke, you get to be in on it. See also YHBT.

    2. n. An individual who chronically trolls in sense 1; regularly posts specious arguments, flames or personal attacks to a newsgroup, discussion list, or in email for no other purpose than to annoy someone or disrupt a discussion. Trolls are recognizable by the fact that they have no real interest in learning about the topic at hand - they simply want to utter flame bait. Like the ugly creatures they are named after, they exhibit no redeeming characteristics, and as such, they are recognized as a lower form of life on the net, as in, â€œOh, ignore him, he's just a troll.â€ Compare kook. 

http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/T/troll.html


----------



## jeff

If the goal is to raise awareness of Eagle's work, would it not be far simpler to post a link to his photo album? 

http://www.thepenshop.net/forum/forum_photos.asp?Eagle

For newcomers wishing to converse with Eagle about his work, you'll find him at
http://www.thepenshop.net with the username "Eagle"


----------



## jeff

> _Originally posted by Mudder_
> ... I do find it to be quite interesting that he would delete all of his pictures but 1. I cannot understand why he would leave this one if he dislikes the IAP so much but I have my theories.


The only reason that photo remains is that I locked his account before he had a chance to delete it while he was in the process of deleting all his photos and posts. He was doing so because he decided that he no longer wished to be associated with this site. 

I locked his account because I object to selective deletion of posts. It screws up the readability of topics, and it's a violation of the terms of service.


----------



## rtjw

> _Originally posted by Ron in Drums PA_
> <br />This post is about as clam as Eagle gets. many of his threads have been deleted by his good friend rtjw, who, for those of you who don't know is the owner of The Pen Shop.



Ron please clarify this for me. I just want to make sure your complimenting me or insulting me. I cant figure it out.[]


----------



## Ron Mc

Johnny,
I think Ron is complimenting you for being able to keep up![]


----------



## rtjw

Jeff, please explain that Skye is not Jeff. I had to call the guy to find out myself. His name is Skye. Jeff can tell by looking at his stuff.


----------



## AdamB

Jeff, Thanks for keeping this example on the forum.

Personally I find Eagle's work both Fascinating and frustrating.  Fascinating because the end result is so beautiful.
Frustrating because I can't do work like that, yet.

I wish there were more pictures of eagles work around somewhere.


----------



## rtjw

Thats what I was thinking Ron. But I didnt know if I needed to be insulted for being Eagles friend![]


----------



## Ron in Drums PA

> _Originally posted by rtjw_
> <br />
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Originally posted by Ron in Drums PA_
> <br />This post is about as clam as Eagle gets. many of his threads have been deleted by his good friend rtjw, who, for those of you who don't know is the owner of The Pen Shop.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ron please clarify this for me. I just want to make sure your complimenting me or insulting me. I cant figure it out.[]
Click to expand...


It is a compliment Johnny. 
It's tough running a forum where sometimes you have to do the right thing and bump a few friends. I know it ain't easy, I have respect for you being able to do that.


----------



## jeff

> _Originally posted by rtjw_
> <br />Jeff, please explain that Skye is not Jeff. I had to call the guy to find out myself. His name is Skye. Jeff can tell by looking at his stuff.


I think you mean "Skye is not Eagle"

No, folks, Skye is not Eagle.


----------



## Skye

Well Ron, did I say anything over there that I havent said here? People are acting like childen. If this is adult behaviour, then I'm going to let my 4 year old start driving my car. Fact of the matter is you pulled the first punch, you outright starting namecalling, pretty sad behaviour.

It does seem like a man crush. That or a stalker. You're keeping close tabs on his activity. Mine too now appartently. Should I get a restraining order?

rtjw is free to tell me  if my sig is bringing down his site and I'll change it. Personaly, I think your going to walk away crying if a warning isnt given because it's a different atmosphere there. The signature is perfect if you ask me.

Also, JW I think you meant "Skye is not Eagle", little confusion there.

Mudder, care to tell me how bumping the post and saying it's a great pen is stirring up trouble. Maybe if I post a pic of my VW Beetle in the Gen forum it'll start trouble? After all, Adolf Hitler did hire the creation of the Kafer, and nobody liked Hitler, so apparently I'm starting a riot. Of course, you can take the car for what it is, a great car. But, that's probably asking too much. 

I hope everyone here never becomes unliked. If so, apparently their pens become crap too. Strange.

PS, hats off to Jeff for allowing the post to remain open.


----------



## rtjw

Yes, I meant Skye is not Eagle. But I am correct in saying also that Skye is not Jeff.[]


----------



## rtjw

I am fixing to eat a hamburger and I really nedd some..........................

NAh, I just cant say the dang word! I cant stand them things anyway!


----------



## ilikewood

WOW!!  Skye has definitely gone over the line now!!  I can't believe he called a VW a "great car".  []


----------



## Skye

Ice cream cone?


----------



## Ron in Drums PA

> _Originally posted by Skye_
> <br />It does seem like a man crush. That or a stalker. You're keeping close tabs on his activity. Mine too now appartently. Should I get a restraining order?



Is it now a crime to view active topics on forums where I have an interest and the ability to create items that are the main topic of discussion? 

Nice try, on both forums I have registered as a member before you. I'm sure a judge will just laugh at you.


Please reread my post about trolls


----------



## coach

Glad to know you registered first Ron!  I was wondering![?]


----------



## JimGo

> _Originally posted by Skye_
> <br />Ice cream cone?


Thanks for joining me in this Skye!




(image is from http://www.penturners.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=338 )


BTW, Skye, what's your favorite ice cream flavor?


----------



## Ron in Drums PA

> _Originally posted by coach_
> <br />Glad to know you registered first Ron!  I was wondering![?]



Your point is?


----------



## timdaleiden

> _Originally posted by JimGo_



I still get hungry when I see that pen. []


----------



## Thumbs

OK, guys.  Nuff said.....  We all know how you feel about Eagle and each other.  Let this die the miserable lonely death it deserves.  Eagle apologists, you do him a disservice by trying to resurrect his memory here.  He made his own choices let him reconcile them as he needs by himself.  Eagle naysayers, many agree that his mechanical/artistic talents do not compensate for his personal behaviors.  Neither the apologist nor naysayer will change their points of view over an exchange of words in this forum. And an exchange of words in a "personal message" is usually even more cowardly than honest open discussion or disagreement in the public view of the forum. Since the forum rules require us to be and remain civil to each other let us drop this discussion once and for all.  PLEASE.


----------



## ilikewood

Thanks for posting that pict of my daughters pen (ice cream cone).  I was going to, but I had to go do some things at lunch.  She still has that thing.  

The one I made (see articles) was stolen from a store where it was on display.[]


----------



## JimGo

It's a really cool pen Bill!  I especially like the tipless and CB-less design.  I had found it when I joined last year, and it stuck in my memory.


----------



## Old Griz

OK, Now I am going to have my say... 

<b>This GARBAGE is getting old.... REAL OLD REAL FAST.... </b>

It is a well known fact that Eagle and I don't get along real well.. we have had a nice phone conversation, but I doubt we will ever be life long friends sharing BBQ and Diet Cokes... But I believe we respect each others talents and that is fine with me.
He is an extremely talented pen maker and extremely innovative.  I give him credit for that... I may not like all he does.. but then again I don't have to and I don't have to buy it and use it...

What I see here is a bunch of supposedly grown men acting worse than a bunch of little kids over one bag of candy.  I really don't give a damn about cross posting, who copied what thread from what forum and reposted it, who said what about someone else or thought someone else said something about them... IT IS ALL CRAP... PURE AND UNADULTERATED CRAP.

WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE HERE TO LEARN THE ART OF PENMAKING FROM EACH OTHER... PURE AND SIMPLE... A HOBBY THAT IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE... HELL IT AIN'T EVEN SCIENCE.  IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE FUN... AND IF WE CAN MAKE A BUCK AT IT EVEN BETTER.
I HAVE BEEN A MEMBER HERE SINCE JUST ABOUT THE BEGINNING... I HAVE BEEN BANNED TWO OR THREE TIMES FOR HAVING A BIG MOUTH (Sound like someone else we know??? []).  AT LEAST ONCE I STILL BELIEVE I WAS RAILROADED, BUT THAT IS NOT THE CASE... IT WAS FOR THE BETTERMENT OF THE FORUM...  
<b>I WANT TO KNOW HOW THIS ASSININE ARGUEMENT IS FOR THE BETTERMENT OF THE FORUM OR PEN TURNING IN GENERAL... EXPLAIN TO ME HOW YOU ALL ARE MAKING AN IMPROVEMENT IN THE EDUCATION OF THE NEW MEMBERS (AND SOME OF US OLDER ONES) BY BEATING EACH OTHER IN THE HEAD... </b>
OK, I HAVE SAID MY MIND.  YOU MAY NOW GO BACK TO YOUR MAYHEM IF YOU WISH...


----------



## Rifleman1776

What Griz said: Amen.


----------



## ilikewood

> What Griz said: Amen.



Hey Rifleman, leave the religious stuff out of here!





[][][]
I couldn't resist trying to stir the pot.[}]  I am just joking with you!  I agree with Tom 100%.  It's fun to read Tom's stuff when he is hot under the collar and putting weight on the soapbox.


----------



## JimGo

Hey Tom, speaking of sharing Diet Cokes and BBQ, when's the next Griz Fest????


----------



## Old Griz

> _Originally posted by JimGo_
> <br />Hey Tom, speaking of sharing Diet Cokes and BBQ, when's the next Griz Fest????



I haven't recovered from the last one yet... [][][]

Depends on what our summer schedule is this year...


----------



## wdcav1952

> _Originally posted by JimGo_
> <br />
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Originally posted by Skye_
> <br />Ice cream cone?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for joining me in this Skye!
> 
> 
> 
> (image is from http://www.penturners.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=338 )
> 
> 
> BTW, Skye, what's your favorite ice cream flavor?
Click to expand...




> Skye
> Member
> 
> 
> Member Since:
> Jan 03 2006
> Posted - Feb 17 2006 :  3:36:38 PM US Eastern Time
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> One word: Poop.
> 
> Seriously.



ROTFLMAO!!!! []


----------



## Skye

Lol, it's true. People use horse manure in their spalting recipes. [^]


----------



## Ron Mc

What does this mean? "ROTFLMAO"


----------



## AirportFF

Rolling on the floor laughing my a$$ off


----------



## Hastur

Hey Skye I am just curious, how come your tag line at TPS isn't http://www.penturners.org?  Just wondering why you would promote one site on the other but not both ways?


----------



## rtjw

> _Originally posted by Hastur_
> <br />Hey Skye I am just curious, how come your tag line at TPS isn't http://www.penturners.org?  Just wondering why you would promote one site on the other but not both ways?



I dont really care if someone puts TPS on their sig line. But Jeff may. Especially with Skye. I dont think jeff would want the IAP site on a sig line with something like www.penturners.org (a site where sissy's live)

Of course, this is just an example. I mean nothing by it. I am just using it as an example. I know no sissy's live here. Well, maybe Coach, but he is a sissy over at TPS also.


----------



## timdaleiden

> _Originally posted by rtjw_
> I dont think jeff would want the IAP site on a sig line with something like www.penturners.org (a site where sissy's live)



That is probably would he would put too. I kinda like (www.penturners.org, a place where we "try" to be respectful and civil), to some folks that makes us sissy's, or wimps, or babies, or worse. Go figure. 


I sold my sig on ebay,
 Tim


----------



## Skye

IAP doesnt need advertisement and while I like the joint, I like TPS more. Just personal prefrence. Therefore, I dont put IAP in my sig there. I love my old  buds at www.volksrods.com but I dont put either in my sig there. 

Nice of you to check in on me there though. Nice to know people are watching you... "Priiiivate eyes, *tsh tsh* are watching you, private aeeeeeeeeeys!"


----------



## coach

Hall and Oates!


Their watchin' you watchin' you watchin' you oo oo oo ooo


----------



## rtjw

> _Originally posted by timdaleiden_
> I sold my sig on ebay,
> Tim



You'd actually sell your sig. I'll bid on it. How much you want?


----------



## timdaleiden

> _Originally posted by rtjw_
> <br />
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Originally posted by timdaleiden_
> I sold my sig on ebay,
> Tim
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You'd actually sell your sig. I'll bid on it. How much you want?
Click to expand...


Sorry Johnny, it's already been purchased.  I sold it for a wopping 5 cents. I did charge $250,000 for shipping and handling thoughâ€¦oldest scam in the book. 

I sold my sig on ebay, 

Tim


----------



## rtjw

Darn, I always wanted to buy some advertising like those guys that Tatoo their forehead or whatever. And then have them tatoo something like " I are a dumba$$" on their forehead.


----------



## timdaleiden

> _Originally posted by rtjw_
> <br />Darn, I always wanted to buy some advertising like those guys that Tatoo their forehead or whatever. And then have them tatoo something like " I are a dumba$$" on their forehead.



Arrggg, don't remind me. I am still trying to figure out how to get rid of that stupid tattoo. 

I sold my sig on ebay,
 Tim


----------



## Randy_

> _Originally posted by Ron Mc_
> <br />What does this mean? "ROTFLMAO"



Ron:  You sure do lead a sheltered life !!!   What time of day do they roll up them sidewalks in McKinney???[][]


----------



## airrat

Couple more questions for your Skye if you preferr the TPS why do you come here to stir up issues?   I find it funny that both you and Eagle are both from S.C.   I find it a little untasteful that your signature has the TPS site in it.  It seems to be another way for you to "stir the pot".   We all know where it is and what it is.(I have no disrespect for the site or rtjw) Alot of us are members on both sites.

By doing what some of you are doing, all that is going to keep happening is a flame war between the two sites.  I see negative stuff/flames posted here about TPS and some of its members, I go to TPS and see negative stuff/flames posted about here.  

Personally I feel if Jeff and Johnny dont get control of certain people on their sites this little flame war is going to degrade all respectability the IAP and TPS can ever obtain.  All the talk about children lately.  Why dont we all grow up and act responsible and then stop this while we are ahead.


----------



## Hastur

The thing is Skye, if you didn't spackle the forums with such a condescending attitude, people wouldn't look or question what you say and do on both sites.  If you are so unhappy with the way people are on this site it was your choice to join you can leave just as easily.

rtjw - you obiviously do feel -a site where sissy's live- otherwise you would not have posted it.  I'm sorry you didn't agree with some people or rules on this site and decided to construct your own pen forum (which I admire) but posting something like this shows how childish you can be.  If you dislike this site so much delete it from your history and favorites and stay at TPS.


----------



## rtjw

Hastur no I dont feel that way, I used it as an example of how skye thinks about this site.

As far as being childish and not liking this site, your wrong. I never said I didnt like the site.

You being only a member since june and having only 46 posts, maybe you need to sit back and read some more posts about how I feel about this site. I have done more for the IAP than you could ever think about doing for it. Out of 46 of your posts, you only posted in Introductions, Polls, SOYP, and Casual Conversation. You have only shown one pen you have made, Started a topic only twice and have more pictures in your album of wood than pens. Son, I have thrown away more money for the IAP than you spend in bills for a year. Dont believe me, check the wall at Cook's. This is one topic you dont wanna start!


----------



## Skye

> Couple more questions for your Skye if you preferr the TPS why do you come here to stir up issues?



I bumped a great pen. The moronic crap that came afterwards wasnâ€™t my doing. If people are so hellbent on hating Eagle that they cant stand to see his pen, that isnâ€™t my fault. Some new people have joined since the thread was bumped last, they liked it, Iâ€™d say I did a good thing for them. Then, people get their shoulder chips loaded and the post goes downhill. I posted absolutely nothing derogatory in the bump, look at your buddies and ask why it went downhill.



> I find it funny that both you and Eagle are both from S.C.



You have a strange sense of humor then, because itâ€™s not funny. He lives about an hour from me and Iâ€™ve never met him.



> I find it a little untasteful that your signature has the TPS site in it. It seems to be another way for you to "stir the pot". We all know where it is and what it is.(I have no disrespect for the site or rtjw) Alot of us are members on both sites.



Iâ€™m not in the business of doing what I do by what you find untastefull. If I were, I would have asked you why you continued the questioning when Johnny has defused it with the last few posts. I think you were the last one to stir the pot.



> By doing what some of you are doing, all that is going to keep happening is a flame war between the two sites. I see negative stuff/flames posted here about TPS and some of its members, I go to TPS and see negative stuff/flames posted about here.



Doing what? As I said before, I bumped the post, new people saw the pen, the locals decided to drag the thread down into the mud. Go back and reread it since the initial bump incase you donâ€™t understand. Wont take you  but 3 minutes to figure it out.



> Personally I feel if Jeff and Johnny dont get control of certain people on their sites this little flame war is going to degrade all respectability the IAP and TPS can ever obtain. All the talk about children lately. Why dont we all grow up and act responsible and then stop this while we are ahead.



For the third time. Go back, read my bump, then pay attention to the attitude of the posts after that. Then decide who started the problem.



> The thing is Skye, if you didn't spackle the forums with such a condescending attitude, people wouldn't look or question what you say and do on both sites. If you are so unhappy with the way people are on this site it was your choice to join you can leave just as easily.



My attitude is my choice. If you read my first posts on this forum you would see I was very level headed. Then I post my opinions on the PMG, next thing you know Iâ€™m the biggest a-hole since Pol Pot. Unfortunately, the my attitude is partially to do with the people here who act like theyâ€™re innocents but are just as guilty. Check out the <b>homemade spalting post</b> in the penturning forum. I post a link to a helpful site, then some burnout parrothead decides to take a dig at me out of nowhere. Yeah, but Iâ€™m the bad guy. Right.

Hastur, love the way you know people better than they know themselves. That's peachy.


----------



## wdcav1952

Skye,

I for one find you informative and truly appreciate your efforts.  You have asked those contributing to both forums to act as adults, which is an excellent point.  Then, in an incredible demonstration, you take the effort to call people names, insinuate "man crushes," discuss your toilet habits, use inappropriate language, and in general give a dead on impersonation of an immature individual.  Trust me, your efforts to instruct the rest of us in the fine art of mature social discourse is appreciated by all who understand your incredible skills in the arena of social satire.

Keep up the good work,


----------



## jeff

You guys are driving me up the baloney tree!

A few thoughts...

penturners.org and thepenshop.net can peacefully coexist IF the folks on both sides will just knock off this nonsense. This quoting back and forth of things said on the other site, digging up old topics to prove a point, bashing each other over commas and apostrophes is ridiculous. Focus your debating energy on important things like Ford/Chevy, Red/Blue, Pro-Life/Pro-Choice. 

Johnny and I have a fine relationship. We email, we talk on the phone, and I'd sure enjoy sitting down to a meal and a few beers with him. He has indeed been one of the most active in promoting the IAP, and we should all be grateful for that. Why he's running TPS has nothing to do with how he feels about this site, or the people here. Folks, it's between Johnny and I, and as long as we're good with the situation, I'd like to ask that you just let it be. Settle in to whichever site you wish, or both if you're so inclined. Each has a unique personality and there's room on this big Internet for both.

STOP BASHING EAGLE! He's not a bad guy. He has a "unique" way of dealing with people which I think he and I mutually agree doesn't fit with the personality of this site, but he doesn't deserve to be flamed in absentia. I did some things he didn't like, and he did some things I didn't like, and now he hangs his skew at TPS. I admit that I don't miss his tirades, but I do miss his work. I visit TPS on a regular basis to see what he's up to. 

I want to lock this topic, but I'm not going to. For some mysterious reason, I have some bit of faith that you can all clean up this mess and get back to making some shavings.


----------



## Skye

One thing I hope we can agree on is that Pentarsia is probably one of best looking pens to come across the site. To lock the post means it's going to be dropped off the map, which would be too bad.

Also, I swear, if you say one cross word about the color red, it's go time baby!


----------



## Ron in Drums PA

> _Originally posted by Skye_
> <br />One thing I hope we can agree on is that Pentarsia is probably one of best looking pens to come across the site. To lock the post means it's going to be dropped off the map, which would be too bad.
> 
> Also, I swear, if you say one cross word about the color red, it's go time baby!




I'm on record saying Pentarsia is a fine pen. That we can agree on.

I just question your motive and your attitude. I do not, for a single moment, believe you bumped up this thread out of the kindness of your heart just to show the new folks.

I believe you accomplished your ulterior motive.

As to thin skin, not me, but I wonder about you. Your remarks reflect a person who either has thin skin or, with your derogatory remarks, hope to induce others to argue. Is the later being what you really hoped to accomplish with all this?


----------



## rtjw

> _Originally posted by jeff_
> <br />You guys are driving me up the baloney tree!
> 
> A few thoughts...
> 
> 
> Johnny and I have a fine relationship. We email, we talk on the phone, and I'd sure enjoy sitting down to a meal and a few beers with him.



A few? Thats an understatement! After the past two months, I am gonna get slobber knocking drunk!!!! 

And I dont even drink!


----------



## woodpens

I'd like to take you both out for all the work you have done to build and maintain your sites, not to mention the fringe benefits you have been tolerating lately. Sometimes it is hard to step back and see the big picture when you get involved in the scraps between a very small handful of people. We have about 2,000 people who have shown an interest in pen turning. They now have a couple great places to discuss and learn all the aspects of pen turning thanks to your efforts. I, for one, thank you both very much!


----------



## rtjw

Jim, You have a great idea.

Beer bash and then a turn a thon at Jims house!


----------



## jeff

I just got an email from Eagle, pointing out that this topic has gone far astray. The original purpose was to show a pen made in memory of a little boy who died. A lot of water has gone over the dam since this topic started months ago, most of it pretty muddy. Eagle sent me a better shot of the pen, and I'm happy to post it here.




<br />

I hope everyone has a great weekend.


----------



## mick

I've been purposely silent until now. And I agree with Jeff about not locking this post. Someone would just start another similar one. No Johnny I'm not referring to you. But in my opinion I see "one person" starting this up over and over. I'm asking him nicely to stop and let us get on with what this site was created for, furthering the art of pen turning. I come here for the information I continuely receive, hopefully bettering my skills. I also come here to converse with folks I consider friends and hope to meet one day. I don't come here to view petty squabbling about things that don't matter one iota.
 A word to all the "regulars" if I may be so bold. If these and similar post offend you or raise your dander, Ignore em! If people like the one causing this problem doesn't have an audience they'll soon fade away. We feed them when we reply to them. I'll paraphrase an Eleanor Roosevelt quote: "People can only make you feel inferior( insert angry , upset , etc...) if you allow them to". I think that's words we can all learn to live by. 
 I hope I haven't offended anyone  and I also hope the person I intended this post for will read and listen and let us get on with what we come here for. 
 Thanks for you time guys and gals!
 Mick

BTW I too belong to both sites and have no problem with either site. They are both great informative places to learn and see others work!


----------



## Hastur

Johnny, yes I have only been a member since June and I have only posted one pen.  Sorry I don't have a camera that takes pictures worth a darn and I also realize I am in a big time learning phase.  I do a lot of reading on the site and no I do not post much.  I search the archives for questions that new turners have and usually find they have been asked before so why should I ask them again?  I am sorry you feel that just because I do not post and upload pictures taken on a 1 megapixil camera as an uneducated, uninformed, and unsupportive person to the IAP.

I took your post and "joke" tag line as the way it was read, if I was wrong then I do apologize.  One of the problems with forums is there is much said between the lines.


----------



## AdamB

in response to 

"I WANT TO KNOW HOW THIS ASSININE ARGUEMENT IS FOR THE BETTERMENT OF THE FORUM OR PEN TURNING IN GENERAL..."

Two things come to mind:

Perhaps they are trying to demonstrate to the new guys how to turn one thing into something completely different.

Then again, maybe they are attempting to show how to get something spinning really fast.


----------



## Mudder

> _Originally posted by jeff_
> <br />I just got an email from Eagle, pointing out that this topic has gone far astray. The original purpose was to show a pen made in memory of a little boy who died.



I have to disagree with you Jeff. It is an absolutely gorgeous pen made by a highly talented individual, this we agree on. I went back and read every post that was made in this thread and not once did Eagle mention Noah. However I did find stuff like this:




> _Originally posted by cteaglesc_
> <br />
> I have noticed a few members who decided not to comment on this pen one way or another.
> Perhaps this pen is not "spectacular" enough for you, that's o.k.
> It may be some real darn good work but I know where the flaws are so I also know it is not "technically perfect"
> Just another pretty pen ... (maybe).
> Perhaps someday I will make a "spectacular pen" that is truly innovative.BUT
> 
> 
> For today and until I mail this off to Johnnie, I can sit with my coffee and non-filtered cigarettes in the dim morning light at the dining room table while my wife and daughter are still sleeping, and smugly and self-righteously admire my own work knowing that I have never seen anything like this before, pinch myself and ask myself...
> Did I really make this?Did this really emerge from my head travel through my hands and with the grace of my Highter Power come to completion?
> 'HMMMMMPH!



Then I see posts like this one.



> _Originally posted by rtjw_
> <br />
> This pen will bring more money than all the other pens combined. I know this because I am bidding on it. And there is a surprise going to happen at the auction!



After this the thread lies dormant until it's close to the time for it to go into the archives and then it gets resurrected by one of his friends. (gee, didnâ€™t we go through something similar a while back with another member looking for him?) Coincidence? Possibly, but I think not. You can think of it any way that you please bit I think it will be bumped again and again just to cause controversy. History has already proved this theory.


Here is an example



> _Originally posted by rtjw_
> <br />
> I dont think jeff would want the IAP site on a sig line with something like www.penturners.org (a site where sissy's live)
> 
> Of course, this is just an example. I mean nothing by it. I am just using it as an example.






Say what you please about me but you cannot say that I am not speaking truthfully here and if Eagle or Johnny or even you Jeff have a problem with what I have said, you know how to get a hold of me.


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## rtjw

Mudder..... Never mind, this says it all.




> _Originally posted by rtjw_
> <br />
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Originally posted by timdaleiden_
> <br />
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Originally posted by wdcav1952_
> <br />As far as those who are eager to zing you, and may I call myself one of your coharts, consider the source.  I know that you and Ron from Drums have had a conflict or two. However Ron stepped up to the plate and acknowledged your incredible pen.  For that, Ron, I salute you as a true gentleman.  As far as those whose silence is deafening, a small pew of sore thumbs sticks out in my mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gosh William, it almost sounds like you calling my name here. I have been busy learning all sort of new things about Web design lately, and I usually don't comment on pens presented anyway.
> 
> I will say that it is nice that he (I just can't call him Eagle) is donating a pen to a worthy cause. I think it's great that so many people helped Johnny with this great cause. I really believe in helping children.
> 
> Tim
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I just got off the phone with Eagle, he is changing is ISP and his server is down. He would like to acknowledge all the positive comments made about this pen that was inspired by noah.
Click to expand...


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## mikes pens

While you people were all discussing this topic ad nauseam, I planted a seed, grew a tree and turned it into a pen.  Now I am going to go and sell it.

Mike[]


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## Ron Mc

I've been watching this thread and staying away due to the conflicts that I have had with the maker of this pen. I can't do it any more. I have watched Ron argue with some guy by the name of Skye that quit honestly needs to take his thick skin somewhere else and stay away from us. As far as I'm concerned he can find a Pop Tart wrapper for himself, and learn somewhere else. The guy will flat out argue with a stump and start crap whenever he has the chance.

Robert,
There is absolutely no need for you to apologize to anyone. Johnny doesn't expect it or need it. You can post pictures whenever you like or find it convenient. The most important thing is for you to enjoy making pens!

Johnny. You are fixing to find out why I haven't posted anything in your forum lately.

Eagle,
This is the PC guy. After reading the PM in reply to the message I sent you I have come to understand what type of a person lives under those ruffled feathers of yours! It's sad that my wife read it as well. So don't ever bring up a young man like Noah again. I don't care if you think he inspired you or not. I personally doubt it. 

Another thing. I personally don't like the way you used MY pickle pen picture to make the PMG look bad. That's it! Get it? You took the picture and used it for another one of your stabs. I explained to Johnny that you broke the rules and asked for it to be removed. Simple. Your broke the rules I fixed them.

This pen doesn't look anything like it used to. Quite honestly I see no beauty in it at all now that I know what kind of person you are. Enjoy your forum. I'll stop in now and then to see what website pictures you have stolen and give you my regards. I anticipated that last weak that you would post the PM messages at some point so I saved them to my hard drive just in case so don't make up some BS. I have what I sent you and your absolutely pathetic reply.
Have a fantastic evening.
PC


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## Ron Mc

One more thing.
Skye, How about you post a picture of a pen you have made? I have search a couple forums and can't seem to find one.
You've been learning from everyone long enough to make a pen since you had the original BAD picture saved to your hard drive.
At least eagle had the courtesy to take and post some pictures that we could actualy see.


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## Ron Mc

I'll be darned.
Skye.
After looking at you past posts it has become aparent that you are a women.
"32 here. Wife of 9 years, 4 year old girl and a 6 month old girl."
4 year old girl and you thought the PopTart joke was funny? WOW. Post that again in 11 years.


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## coach

Skye is not a woman.  If you want to join in to bash him, at least know what you are talking about.  Hypocrit!


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## Ron Mc

Coach,
I thought she was due to the fact that she said,

"32 here. Wife of 9 years, 4 year old girl and a 6 month old girl." 

In the How old are you poll.
If Skye is a man then I apologize to Skye.


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## coach

This isn't Jr. High Ron.  He has a wife of 9 years.  Nice touch in calling him she.  I see that you have followed him in every topic he posted so you can make little comments.  Nice form!  Maybe you should just start talking about some pickles?!?


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## Skye

> _Originally posted by Ron Mc_
> <br />One more thing.
> Skye, How about you post a picture of a pen you have made? I have search a couple forums and can't seem to find one.
> You've been learning from everyone long enough to make a pen since you had the original BAD picture saved to your hard drive.
> At least eagle had the courtesy to take and post some pictures that we could actualy see.



You know, I had decided to not post in this thread, let the thread die, but apparently stirring the poo is something you guys like to do as much as anyone youâ€™ve accused so far. So, Iâ€™ll bite, why not.

Apparently, youâ€™re completely computer illiterate. Let me break it down for you real simple like:

When you look at the pic of Pentarsia, here is the url for the picture you see:

<b>http://www.penturners.org</b>/forum/uploads<b>/cteaglesc/</b>200511513251_One%20for%20giving%20004.jpg

Thatâ€™s Eagleâ€™s upload folder and the pic has always been there. So, for all the people who donâ€™t know how to use an internet browser, I didnâ€™t upload the picture. As Iâ€™ve been accused of posting the pic myself more than once in this thread, hopefully that will clear that up.



> _Originally posted by Ron Mc_
> <br />I'll be darned.
> Skye.
> After looking at you past posts it has become aparent that you are a women.
> "32 here. Wife of 9 years, 4 year old girl and a 6 month old girl."
> 4 year old girl and you thought the PopTart joke was funny? WOW. Post that again in 11 years.



Wow, thatâ€™s funny. Oh, and itâ€™s also in the spalting thread in the penturning forum. Apparently, he thought it was so side-splittingly humorous he had to repost it here. As I said there, there are 2 people there who started throwing mud in that thread, neither were me. So, who likes to stir stuff up? Yep, youâ€™re good olâ€™ IAP regulars, which, interestingly enough, nobody has called foul on.

**Edit, just noticed your reply while typing this. No need to opologize, but out of curiosity, how exactly did the idea of me being a woman answer your questions? Have something against women pen turners? I know a few here who would be very interested to know exactly what you meant by that little comment.



> _Originally posted by Ron Mc_
> <br />I've been watching this thread and staying away due to the conflicts that I have had with the maker of this pen. I can't do it any more. I have watched Ron argue with some guy by the name of Skye that quit honestly needs to take his thick skin somewhere else and stay away from us. As far as I'm concerned he can find a Pop Tart wrapper for himself, and learn somewhere else. The guy will flat out argue with a stump and start crap whenever he has the chance



People can check the spalting thread if they wish. The people here started the name calling in the thread <b>not me</b>, itâ€™s there for everyone to see.

Learn somewhere else? So, youâ€™re deciding where people go? Thatâ€™s funny.

Pop-tart thread wasnâ€™t mine that was <b>pen-turners</b>. Apparently youâ€™re so busy chasing me around you missed the fact that I didnâ€™t start the post. If youâ€™re going to try your hand at insulting, at least get your victims right.


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