# Maple behaving strangely



## JonathanF1968 (Mar 29, 2020)

Here's a photo of an issue that is driving me crazy. Nope, it is not a paint roller. It is maple. In another thread, I mentioned that I had an old maple tree milled for lumber and it is drying out in my basement. I tried turning a few pieces of it today, and I'm getting this dreadful chipping/checking result. While this isn't my most careful work, it was done with a pretty sharp skew. All my tools are producing the same quality. I thought I was losing my mind, and that I somehow forgot how to turn, or was sharpening my tools wrong, etc., but then tried turning a piece of commercially dried cherry and I easily produced a nice, smooth result, which is what I'm used to. (Science....)

So, what the heck. Is the wood too wet? Could it be that I've just been unlucky in choosing pieces that are from a bad part of the log? I've turned green wood before and not had this happen. Is there some quality to spalted maple that makes it prone to this?  

I am at a loss here.


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## maxwell_smart007 (Mar 29, 2020)

How long has it been drying?  Does it feel 'soft' when you're turning it? 

Might be punky...


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## JonathanF1968 (Mar 29, 2020)

It's been drying for maybe a month or so, though the tree has been down for six years. Parts are punky but this feels solid. I can barely dent it with my fingernail. Doesn't feel soft. I have been turning some willow lately, and that is soft. This isn't anything like that.


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## KenB259 (Mar 29, 2020)

If your tools are sharp and the woods not punky my best guess is your turning it at too slow a speed. What speed were you turning at?


Sent from my iPad using Penturners.org mobile app


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## hokie (Mar 29, 2020)

What species of maple is it? I've turned silver maple a few times and got similar results. Had to sand to the final dimensions at a certain point because the tools weren't effective at all.


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## Charlie_W (Mar 29, 2020)

Looks punky.  Try using either sanding sealer or CA to stiffen the fibers and give it another cut when the sealer is dry. You may need to do this several times as you get close to final size. Also, you might want to wet sand with walnut oil.


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## Dale Allen (Mar 29, 2020)

Not trying to be rude or negitive but that has no grain figure that I can see so what would you get besides a really blah blank?


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## leehljp (Mar 29, 2020)

You aren't laying the skew on its side and scraping it that way are you?

2nd question: is that Hard Maple or softer silver maple wood.

I was taught long ago on this forum that scrapers did better on hard woods, but made soft woods look like your photo; Skews did better on soft woods (when it slices the wood, not shaping it)  but not quite as good on very hard woods as scrapers did.


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## JonathanF1968 (Mar 29, 2020)

Dale Allen said:


> Not trying to be rude or negitive but that has no grain figure that I can see so what would you get besides a really blah blank?



It's actually destined to be painted.


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## JonathanF1968 (Mar 29, 2020)

leehljp said:


> You aren't laying the skew on its side and scraping it that way are you?
> 
> 2nd question: is that Hard Maple or softer silver maple wood.
> 
> I was taught long ago on this forum that scrapers did better on hard woods, but made soft woods look like your photo; Skews did better on soft woods (when it slices the wood, not shaping it)  but not quite as good on very hard woods as scrapers did.



I tried about six different tools on it, and all had similar effects. The skews did best but not great.


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## JonathanF1968 (Mar 29, 2020)

hokie said:


> What species of maple is it? I've turned silver maple a few times and got similar results. Had to sand to the final dimensions at a certain point because the tools weren't effective at all.



Sugar maple.


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## duncsuss (Mar 29, 2020)

Can you post a photo of the shavings? Sometimes there's more to learn from what comes off the blank than what's left on it.


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## 1080Wayne (Mar 30, 2020)

Have seen that happen on other woods that felt firm enough to turn . My guess would be that it is caused by a different fungus than the one/ones that give the black lines , probably something closer to a white rot . It just hasn`t progressed to the very punky stage yet . 

Fastest solution is thin CA as Charlie suggested , being careful to apply more as soon as you`ve gone through the hardened layer . Stop a bit short of final diameter and sand down to it , but make sure it is all hard before sanding .


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## monophoto (Mar 30, 2020)

We live in a relatively new development adjacent to a golf course.  As far as I know, this is virgin land, with no prior development (including farming).  I have told my wife that the back half of our property will be 'forever wild' - meaning that we won't attempt to clear it or grow grass (that I have to mow).  There is a random mixture of trees - some pine, some oak, some sassafrass, some white birch, and some 'mountain maple'.   Sadly, also a few really nasty cottonwoods.   I've cut down a few of the maples that were encroaching on the 'non-forever wild' part of the property, and have had similar turning experience with it.

Mountain maple (_acer spicatum_) is a large bush/small tree that produces sap that can be used to make maple syrup.  However, it is not sugar maple (a_cer saccharum_). The wood is yellowish to white with an indistinct grain pattern, and can often have unsightly mineral stains. It is fairly soft compared with hard maple and turning sometimes produces the kind of surface you have experienced. But it sands well and can be used for utility items that don't need to be pretty.


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## JonathanF1968 (Mar 30, 2020)

leehljp said:


> You aren't laying the skew on its side and scraping it that way are you?
> 
> 2nd question: is that Hard Maple or softer silver maple wood.
> 
> I was taught long ago on this forum that scrapers did better on hard woods, but made soft woods look like your photo; Skews did better on soft woods (when it slices the wood, not shaping it)  but not quite as good on very hard woods as scrapers did.



I actually don't think I tried a scraper on it. Will try that. I rarely use them.

I tried the skew in all different angles on this, and I don't remember exactly what I did to produce what was in the photo, but I used it at a normal angle and was gettting the best results that way but still much worse than what I usually get. My biggest surprise/frustration is how rough it is with my gouges. I tried four different gauges (two sizes of spindles and a bowl, plus roughing gouge) and got the worst results I've ever produced on anything.


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## JonathanF1968 (Mar 30, 2020)

monophoto said:


> We live in a relatively new development adjacent to a golf course.  As far as I know, this is virgin land, with no prior development (including farming).  I have told my wife that the back half of our property will be 'forever wild' - meaning that we won't attempt to clear it or grow grass (that I have to mow).  There is a random mixture of trees - some pine, some oak, some sassafrass, some white birch, and some 'mountain maple'.   Sadly, also a few really nasty cottonwoods.   I've cut down a few of the maples that were encroaching on the 'non-forever wild' part of the property, and have had similar turning experience with it.
> 
> Mountain maple (_acer spicatum_) is a large bush/small tree that produces sap that can be used to make maple syrup.  However, it is not sugar maple (a_cer saccharum_). The wood is yellowish to white with an indistinct grain pattern, and can often have unsightly mineral stains. It is fairly soft compared with hard maple and turning sometimes produces the kind of surface you have experienced. But it sands well and can be used for utility items that don't need to be pretty.



This was a huge tree. Pretty sure it was a sugar maple.


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## JonathanF1968 (Mar 30, 2020)

duncsuss said:


> Can you post a photo of the shavings? Sometimes there's more to learn from what comes off the blank than what's left on it.



Definitely not lovely curls. Splinters and dust.


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## leehljp (Mar 30, 2020)

JonathanF1968 said:


> I actually don't think I tried a scraper on it. Will try that. I rarely use them.
> 
> I tried the skew in all different angles on this, and I don't remember exactly what I did to produce what was in the photo, but I used it at a normal angle and was gettting the best results that way but still much worse than what I usually get. My biggest surprise/frustration is how rough it is with my gouges. I tried four different gauges (two sizes of spindles and a bowl, plus roughing gouge) and got the worst results I've ever produced on anything.



Even a sharp scraper will cause softer woods to look like that. That is why I asked if you were laying the skew on it side against the rest. (Some people use the skew as a scraper, but after reading your posts and knowledge of the other tools, I realized that you do know the proper way of using a skew. I am not adept at using as skew, but I know how they should be used.)


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## jttheclockman (Mar 30, 2020)

Take some sandpaper to it and if it sands out flat then it is not the wood. If it still has the texture than it is the wood. If it sands out flat then try a skew again. You could always throw in toaster oven to make sure it is dry but that does not look like the case. the tree could have been diseased and that is the results. You could also cut a slab on a bandsaw or tablesaw and get a better look inside. To me that looks like chatter marks but to be that consistent makes me think it is the tree.


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## leehljp (Mar 30, 2020)

KenB259 asked above - What speed are you turning? Your tool use suggests that you may turn bowls also. Early on I discovered that many bowl turners liked turning pen blanks at slower rates than most pen turners. Good speed for situations like that is 2500 - 3000+ RPM


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