# Future Shop Build...How the heck do I...



## Timbo (Dec 29, 2015)

...get my stationary tools, lumber, heavy furniture items into or out of my shop, which will be sitting on 5-6 foot pylons once its built.

My wife and I finally pulled the trigger and purchased some inshore property.  She grew up around boats and the ocean, and I grew to love fishing, we vacation at the shore every year, so this was bound to happen.  Anyway, the house will be built on pylons along with a 2-story shop (1st level) and exercise studio (2nd level).

I was wondering if anyone has build a shop 5 plus feet off the ground, and what facilities did they design, or what methods did they use to move heavy items in and out.  Or even if you have not done anything like this before, how would you go about solving this problem?

All suggestions welcome.  Thank you.

Tim


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## Edgar (Dec 29, 2015)

A fork lift would probably be best. You should be able to rent one & might even be able to buy a used one at a reasonable cost.

Other possibilities might be to build a ramp or elevator for that purpose if it's feasible.

Also, do you know anyone nearby who has a tractor with a front-end loader? That might not be as versatile as a fork lift, but it would work for some things. That's how I hoisted a new air conditioner to the roof of my travel trailer.


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## OOPS (Dec 29, 2015)

A local tool dealer had a problem like this.  He had plenty of second floor attic space available but no way to get things up there.  His solution was to cut a hole in the first floor ceiling.  Then he welded a steel frame together which would be able to handle the largest of the tools he wanted to move.  He then attached a ring on top of the steel frame.  In the attic, he constructed a frame to hold a 2,000 lb. winch.  He used the winch to move the steel frame up and down.  He said that this cannot be used legally as an elevator, because the cable can and does snap from time to time.  But it is perfectly fine to use as a dumb waiter, for parts only.  He minimized the cable snapping by using a higher rated cable, and changing it yearly.  Given that he owned a tool store, apparently the cable cost was not as important as safety.  It worked fine until he retired and closed the store.  Also, he ran side rails vertically to keep the steel frame from twisting as it went up and down.  I hope this gives you some ideas.


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## Dalecamino (Dec 29, 2015)

A roofing conveyor might work. Or a swing out hoist. Don't forget to post pictures!


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## The Penguin (Dec 29, 2015)

aluminum dumbwaiter: Cargo Lifts & Platform Lifts for Residential Homes - Legacy Lifts

I think most have 1,000# capacity and generally cost around $8,000 installed (here in TX anyway)

there's several brands available. use your google-fu and look for "aluminum cargo lift"


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## Curly (Dec 29, 2015)

I'm going to be building a 2 story shop in the coming year. Basically a walkout basement type of arrangement. The lower floor will be at ground level at the front on the west side with the ground rising along the south, north with the east side being the highest. It will have a garage door and a man door with the metal working stuff and storage there. Woodworking machinery will be on the upper level. The upper floor will have the double door entrance at the east end of the south wall opening to a loading deck about 30" above the ground so that machines, lumber, furniture etc., can be brought in or out of the shop. A set of stairs (3 or 4 steps?) will access the deck outside along the wall. Anything big or heavy I need to bring up or down will be brought around the outside of the shop with the pickup or tractor (I hope  ), otherwise it's via a set of stairs inside the shop for the smaller items.

In your case since your floor will be 5+ feet above ground I would build up the driveway 30" or more as needed to allow a truck or trailer to be unloaded straight to the lower floor or deck. 

Your other option would be to attach an I beam to the bottom of the upper floor, sticking out over your truck and coming back inside so that you can add a beam trolly and either a chain hoist or electric winch and lift off a truck or trailer and slide the load inside. The beam would be sealed from the elements by double doors and perhaps with a shed roof over it. Think old style barn and hayloft.

Have fun with the build and future shop.


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## terry q (Dec 29, 2015)

the answer is here.  https://kiwidutch.wordpress.com/2011/03/13/new-327/


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## Timbo (Dec 29, 2015)

edohmann said:


> A fork lift would probably be best. You should be able to rent one & might even be able to buy a used one at a reasonable cost.
> 
> Other possibilities might be to build a ramp or elevator for that purpose if it's feasible.
> 
> Also, do you know anyone nearby who has a tractor with a front-end loader? That might not be as versatile as a fork lift, but it would work for some things. That's how I hoisted a new air conditioner to the roof of my travel trailer.



I could see how a fork lift would work well for the initial move-in.  Not sure how often I would need it afterwards, although buying one would be a bit overboard.
I'll be new to the neighborhood so I wont have any friends with big toys to help me out initially.
Thanks.


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## Timbo (Dec 29, 2015)

OOPS said:


> A local tool dealer had a problem like this.  He had plenty of second floor attic space available but no way to get things up there.  His solution was to cut a hole in the first floor ceiling.  Then he welded a steel frame together which would be able to handle the largest of the tools he wanted to move.  He then attached a ring on top of the steel frame.  In the attic, he constructed a frame to hold a 2,000 lb. winch.  He used the winch to move the steel frame up and down.  He said that this cannot be used legally as an elevator, because the cable can and does snap from time to time.  But it is perfectly fine to use as a dumb waiter, for parts only.  He minimized the cable snapping by using a higher rated cable, and changing it yearly.  Given that he owned a tool store, apparently the cable cost was not as important as safety.  It worked fine until he retired and closed the store.  Also, he ran side rails vertically to keep the steel frame from twisting as it went up and down.  I hope this gives you some ideas.



Interesting idea.  It could work since I'll have a minimum 5' clearance below the floor. I'd need to design/install a weatherproof door in the floor of the shop.  Thank you.


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## Timbo (Dec 29, 2015)

Dalecamino said:


> A roofing conveyor might work. Or a swing out hoist. Don't forget to post pictures!



Hmmmm...swing out hoist...seems like a good low cost option.  Thanks.


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## Timbo (Dec 29, 2015)

The Penguin said:


> aluminum dumbwaiter: Cargo Lifts & Platform Lifts for Residential Homes - Legacy Lifts
> 
> I think most have 1,000# capacity and generally cost around $8,000 installed (here in TX anyway)
> 
> there's several brands available. use your google-fu and look for "aluminum cargo lift"



Wow!  Those Cargo Lifts are nice and could certainly do the job.  Kind of on the expensive side.  We WILL be getting a boat lift, so maybe I could work out a deal.  Thanks.


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## Timbo (Dec 29, 2015)

Curly said:


> I'm going to be building a 2 story shop in the coming year. Basically a walkout basement type of arrangement. The lower floor will be at ground level at the front on the west side with the ground rising along the south, north with the east side being the highest. It will have a garage door and a man door with the metal working stuff and storage there. Woodworking machinery will be on the upper level. The upper floor will have the double door entrance at the east end of the south wall opening to a loading deck about 30" above the ground so that machines, lumber, furniture etc., can be brought in or out of the shop. A set of stairs (3 or 4 steps?) will access the deck outside along the wall. Anything big or heavy I need to bring up or down will be brought around the outside of the shop with the pickup or tractor (I hope  ), otherwise it's via a set of stairs inside the shop for the smaller items.
> 
> In your case since your floor will be 5+ feet above ground I would build up the driveway 30" or more as needed to allow a truck or trailer to be unloaded straight to the lower floor or deck.
> 
> ...



The driveway idea would work since we have the space to do it.  I just don't know that I'd want to use the space that way...I know my wife wont.  I'm liking the idea of the beam and hoist, however, I think I would avoid extending it into the building to eliminate and issues with sealing it from the weather.  A beam/hoist systems that folds might be the way to go. 
 Thank you!


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## Edgar (Dec 29, 2015)

Timbo said:


> OOPS said:
> 
> 
> > A local tool dealer had a problem like this.  He had plenty of second floor attic space available but no way to get things up there.  His solution was to cut a hole in the first floor ceiling.  Then he welded a steel frame together which would be able to handle the largest of the tools he wanted to move.  He then attached a ring on top of the steel frame.  In the attic, he constructed a frame to hold a 2,000 lb. winch.  He used the winch to move the steel frame up and down.  He said that this cannot be used legally as an elevator, because the cable can and does snap from time to time.  But it is perfectly fine to use as a dumb waiter, for parts only.  He minimized the cable snapping by using a higher rated cable, and changing it yearly.  Given that he owned a tool store, apparently the cable cost was not as important as safety.  It worked fine until he retired and closed the store.  Also, he ran side rails vertically to keep the steel frame from twisting as it went up and down.  I hope this gives you some ideas.
> ...



Properly designed, the "door" in the floor of the shop could be the dumb waiter itself. An appliance store in my wife's home town was a 2-story building & they stored all their inventory upstairs. They had an 8x8 "door" in the floor of the second story and hoisted it up & down with a 2" rope around a pulley. They had a counterweight to help offset the weight of the appliances they hoisted up & down. When properly locked in place, it was safe to walk on the top side of the door when it was in its normally raised position.


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## Timbo (Dec 29, 2015)

terry q said:


> the answer is here.  https://kiwidutch.wordpress.com/2011/03/13/new-327/



Kind of like the beam and hoist system suggested a few times above.  Thanks for the feedback.


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## Curly (Dec 30, 2015)

Timbo said:


> I'm liking the idea of the beam and hoist, however, I think I would avoid extending it into the building to eliminate and issues with sealing it from the weather.  A beam/hoist systems that folds might be the way to go. Thank you!



The reason I suggest the beam run back into the shop is twofold. First being anchored to the floor joists for some distance inside makes mounting easier. Secondly you want to be able to lift the load and then pull  it in to unload. Pulling a hundred board foot bundle of oak in through a door isn't easy if it is hanging outside on a fixed point. 

If you want a swinging crane, have a look at the ones for pickup trucks. They might adapt nicely.


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## Timbo (Dec 30, 2015)

Curly said:


> Timbo said:
> 
> 
> > I'm liking the idea of the beam and hoist, however, I think I would avoid extending it into the building to eliminate and issues with sealing it from the weather.  A beam/hoist systems that folds might be the way to go. Thank you!
> ...



Thanks!  While taking your suggestion and researching the truck cranes, I found this floor crane vendor (Manual Cranes - Ruger Floor Cranes - Ruger Industries). They look like they have some stuff that could work for me.  I reached out to them to get more info about their products.


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## cal91666 (Dec 30, 2015)

Timbo said:


> edohmann said:
> 
> 
> > A fork lift would probably be best. You should be able to rent one & might even be able to buy a used one at a reasonable cost.
> ...



I'm a forklift technician.  I would recommend moving this idea very low on your list of possibilities, unless you have a concrete driveway to your planned shop.  Forklifts are VERY heavy.  An average 3000 lbs. capacity forklift weights in the neighborhood of 6000-7000 lbs.  Forklifts capable of running on uneven or softer surfaces (rough terrain) are very expensive and large due to the tire and frame sizes.

Beam and hoist would be my suggestion, as already mentioned.


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## Timbo (Dec 31, 2015)

cal91666 said:


> Timbo said:
> 
> 
> > edohmann said:
> ...



Thanks.  I've pretty much ruled it out.  My #1 choice right now is a counter-weighted movable hoist.  My main problem is getting stuff up to the level of the doorway.  Once there, I could roll it in on the hoist, or lower it on a dolly to roll it into the shop.  We're going to be in a residential area.  Since the house and shop will be visible from the street, we'll want the shop to look like its part of the house.  A movable hoist could be stored in the shop to keep things looking neat on the outside.


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## oneleggimp (Dec 31, 2015)

That is a good suggestion.  Someone suggested a wheelchair lift tupe lift.  Problem is the motor is mounted toward the bottom of the tower and is therefore subject  to being flooded out.  At the least, if it is a screw style lift the motor is connected to the jack screw by three vee-belts which would not drive well if they are wet. being a full-time wheelchair using gimp, I had a wheelchair lift for the first 12 years of my gimp-a-tude and know the pluses and minues of the beast.  If you use a chain fall hung uner the eaves of your top floor you should be able to bring up almost anything.  Have a door in line with the roof peak on each floor.


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## dogcatcher (Dec 31, 2015)

Checkout this guy method https://youtu.be/ERVZ1BUoW4Q 
https://youtu.be/sv7DywkTmuk
You will see how he unloads a massive sander.  The other video where he show the method in more detail.  Watch some of his videos, simple solutions to loading and unloading.  Just reverse of your situation.


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## vtgaryw (Jan 1, 2016)

For less than 1/2 the price of the home cargo lift, you can get a 4 post car lift from someplace like Northern Tool.  You might be able to get by with a 2 post lift if you could figure out a good way to attached a platform.

Gary


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## Timbo (Jan 1, 2016)

vtgaryw said:


> For less than 1/2 the price of the home cargo lift, you can get a 4 post car lift from someplace like Northern Tool.  You might be able to get by with a 2 post lift if you could figure out a good way to attached a platform.
> 
> Gary



Hey Gary,
Thanks for the input Gary, but I'm not seeing how a car lift would work for me...but I don't know what I don't know.  Seems like it would take up a lot of space, since it would only be usable through the shop floor.  I'm thinking a movable counter-weighted hoist would be a better option since it would allow for lifting items from a deck which would be at floor level, from a driveway or truck bed.  Then I could roll the hoist indoors for storage until I need it again.


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## vtgaryw (Jan 2, 2016)

I was thinking what I would do would be to locate the lift outside the shop, either out in the open or in a separate shed/garage like structure. It would lift up to an access door (kind of like a barn loft door)

Plus you'd have a car lift!

Gary




Timbo said:


> vtgaryw said:
> 
> 
> > For less than 1/2 the price of the home cargo lift, you can get a 4 post car lift from someplace like Northern Tool.  You might be able to get by with a 2 post lift if you could figure out a good way to attached a platform.
> ...


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## Timbo (Jan 2, 2016)

vtgaryw said:


> I was thinking what I would do would be to locate the lift outside the shop, either out in the open or in a separate shed/garage like structure. It would lift up to an access door (kind of like a barn loft door)
> 
> Plus you'd have a car lift!
> 
> ...




I see.  The home owners association probably wont like a car lift sitting in my yard, and I have no real need for a third structure.  There's going to be plenty of space under the house to store yard stuff.  I think whatever I get will be on the smaller side and portable so that it can be stored away in the shop when not in use.


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## Curly (Jan 3, 2016)

With all the flooding going on in the Mid-West are you thinking you should have taller pilings yet?  I assume you are in a river flood plane or along the coast  subject to storm surge. If you were to build higher you could back under the shop and winch everything through a trap door. 

I feel for all those affected by the flooding and hope IAP members are not caught up in the disaster.


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## Timbo (Jan 3, 2016)

Curly said:


> With all the flooding going on in the Mid-West are you thinking you should have taller pilings yet?  I assume you are in a river flood plane or along the coast  subject to storm surge. If you were to build higher you could back under the shop and winch everything through a trap door.
> 
> I feel for all those affected by the flooding and hope IAP members are not caught up in the disaster.



We're going to be living in Colington Island, NC which is situated on the Albemarle Sound.  So that puts us between Hatteras Island, the main barrier island, and the mainland.  Its not in a river flood plane, nor is it subject to storm surge from the ocean.  However, it can be subject to storm surge from the Sound if the winds are blowing in the right direction, but this is not as frequent or as severe as the ocean storm surges.

Even if I was crazy enough to build at ground level, I couldn't because of the building codes...the only houses in that area that are not on pylons are the older homes that were built before the codes were in place. 

Yes...the shop, (and the house) will be high enough to drive under, but I really don't want to put a door in the floor to move large or heavy items in, if I can take advantage of the double doors that I already plan for the shop.


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## dogcatcher (Jan 3, 2016)

With the double doors and a reinforced floor in the area where you would mount something like this you should be in business.

I would prefer to have an outside dock/loading area so that everything could be done in the open.  Then roll the equipment inside using furniture dollies or car dollies.  But just inside the double doors should would.  You can buy these from various places, this one happens to be from Northern Tools, but for your tools I would want more weight capacity.


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## Dalecamino (Jan 4, 2016)

Plenty of ideas here without even seeing the house.:wink:


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## Timbo (Jan 4, 2016)

Dalecamino said:


> Plenty of ideas here without even seeing the house.:wink:



Agreed!  There are so many great folks here, with such varied backgrounds that I'm always confident of getting good feedback.  Thank you guys!!!


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## Timbo (Jan 4, 2016)

dogcatcher said:


> With the double doors and a reinforced floor in the area where you would mount something like this you should be in business.
> 
> I would prefer to have an outside dock/loading area so that everything could be done in the open.  Then roll the equipment inside using furniture dollies or car dollies.  But just inside the double doors should would.  You can buy these from various places, this one happens to be from Northern Tools, but for your tools I would want more weight capacity.



Thanks.  I already looked at these and they certainly could work.  I'm pretty sure there will be a deck outside the double doors.  If I used a swivel hoist like this I would probably pour a concrete column under a trap door in the deck with J-bolts to secure it to.  If its not going to be used for a while, I could unbolt it for storage.

I did a quick check on eBay and saw a 1-ton capacity for under $300.00.  This goes on the possibility list.


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## GaryMGg (Jan 5, 2016)

Would something like a Genie lift work?


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## Timbo (Jan 6, 2016)

GaryMGg said:


> Would something like a Genie lift work?



Possibly.  I'll have to wait to see what the final high above ground level the deck will be.  Also, storage might be an issue when not in use..not sure of the weight so it may not be easy to get into the shop.  Thanks for posting.


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## TellicoTurning (Jan 13, 2016)

I'm not going to be any help, more of a smart A--.... but down Texas way we used to say you need two good men and a mule. :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

My shop sits on an inclined piece of my lot... it's almost ground level at the back end - 6 or 8 inches high, but sits up on concrete blocks at the front end 2++feet high... and because of the location of the doorway, no way to use mechanical lift into the shop... so, I man handled everything into the shop... when the lathe arrived, I could back the pick up truck parallel to the shop, very near the doorway, unpack the lathe, then I could just swing the parts into the shop... one piece at a time.


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## Timbo (Jan 13, 2016)

TellicoTurning said:


> I'm not going to be any help, more of a smart A--.... but down Texas way we used to say you need two good men and a mule. :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:
> 
> My shop sits on an inclined piece of my lot... it's almost ground level at the back end - 6 or 8 inches high, but sits up on concrete blocks at the front end 2++feet high... and because of the location of the doorway, no way to use mechanical lift into the shop... so, I man handled everything into the shop... when the lathe arrived, I could back the pick up truck parallel to the shop, very near the doorway, unpack the lathe, then I could just swing the parts into the shop... one piece at a time.



LOL...I've already been that route in my current house where my shop is in the basement.  I managed to figure out a way to get all but one of my tools down into the shop without killing myself.  I'm older, weaker and wiser now.  Besides...who's gonna take care of that mule between jobs!


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## Hawkdave (Jan 13, 2016)

dogcatcher said:


> Checkout this guy method https://youtu.be/ERVZ1BUoW4Q
> https://youtu.be/sv7DywkTmuk
> You will see how he unloads a massive sander.  The other video where he show the method in more detail.  Watch some of his videos, simple solutions to loading and unloading.  Just reverse of your situation.



A very interesting situation with some great suggestions coming in.

I like the video dogcatcher put forward. It just shows how ingenious people can be when needed.

Timbo, I am looking forward to seeing your situation resolved and how you went about it.

Dave.


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## Timbo (Jan 13, 2016)

Hawkdave said:


> dogcatcher said:
> 
> 
> > Checkout this guy method https://youtu.be/ERVZ1BUoW4Q
> ...



I agree Dave...people do come up with some great solutions when pressed.  

Might be a while before you can see my final solution.  It's going to be over a year before the house and shop are built.  My wife and I are executing a 3 calendar year (2015 - 2017) plan for shifting money around, while minimizing the tax hits. We have settlement for the land this month, but wont be able to fund the house build until 2017.


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