# Master Pen Maker Criteria



## jplifka (Jul 19, 2012)

Is there any "formal" or "official" criteria for designating someone a Novice, Journeyman, or Master Pen turner/maker?


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## Dalecamino (Jul 19, 2012)

I don't think I have an answer for this one, but I'll be interested in seeing  some responses. Good question.


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## Lucky2 (Jul 19, 2012)

Do people really need these titles, do they not already know what their pen turning status is already? IMO it's just giving some people a better chance to look down their noses at someone who doesn't have as much experience or the same quality of tools.  
Len


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## Andrew_K99 (Jul 19, 2012)

Once you sell your first $1000 pen, you're a master.  Until then you're (hopefully) doing something you enjoy.

AK


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## mredburn (Jul 19, 2012)

Right now the only designation is pen turner. If your wishing to show the level of proficiency you have risen to, there is the Pen  Makers Guild. You must apply to the guild and submit a pen of your making, usually you have to have something other than a kit pen for it to be accepted. And it needs to be made flawlessly.  we did have some mighty long and strong debate on whether we were craftsmen or artists and whether or not we worked in a shop or a studio.


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## Glenn McCullough (Jul 19, 2012)

what do you call someone extremely proficient in putting a worm on a hook?


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## mredburn (Jul 19, 2012)

Glenn McCullough said:


> what do you call someone extremely proficient in putting a worm on a hook?



A level 5 Fish Enticing Engineer:biggrin:


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## ed4copies (Jul 19, 2012)

a man with leisure time!


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## ed4copies (Jul 19, 2012)

You wanna be a master?

No sweat, you can truthfully say you are among the BEST penmakers in the world!!!

You rank in the top tenth of a percentile of the population (I doubt more than .1% of the population know or care HOW to make a pen).  

Call yourself anything you like----when someone picks up your pen and evaluates the workmanship, you can smile if and when THEY call you a master.  It is a good feeling!
It's an even better feeling if they buy the pen, putting THEIR money on YOUR workmanship.


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## PenMan1 (Jul 19, 2012)

Glenn McCullough said:


> what do you call someone extremely proficient in putting a worm on a hook?


 
Sorry, Glenn! I just can't help myself:biggrin:

The person you described is a Master Baiter:biggrin:


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## OKLAHOMAN (Jul 19, 2012)

LOTFLMFAO:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:





PenMan1 said:


> Glenn McCullough said:
> 
> 
> > what do you call someone extremely proficient in putting a worm on a hook?
> ...


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## Dalecamino (Jul 19, 2012)

OKLAHOMAN said:


> FOTFLMFAO:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Me too!!:biggrin::laugh:


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## mredburn (Jul 19, 2012)

Here I am trying to keep the thread out of the gutter.........


Oh well http://www.masterbaitonline.com/pr_shirts.htm

From a shop in a town just south of me.


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## chriselle (Jul 19, 2012)

I chuckled....but it kinda rubbed me the wrong way.:tongue:


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## jd99 (Jul 19, 2012)

To be a master at any craft has nothing to do with money, the place where you practice your craft (Studio, shop or shed) or the cost of your tools, or the amount of tools you have. 
Or arguing on a procedure or method to prove your a master. (Just Saying) 

It is experiance, you practice your craft striving to be better, with each item you make, after years of this you will be a master, and there will always be someone that has mastered their craft just a little bit further than you. So there is no king of the mountain, and we all are masters at what ever level of the craft we are at at any point of time. :biggrin:


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## Dalecamino (Jul 19, 2012)

PenMan1 said:


> Glenn McCullough said:
> 
> 
> > what do you call someone extremely proficient in putting a worm on a hook?
> ...


Then a Master Baiter....must have been doing it for quite some time.....and often:biggrin:


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## ed4copies (Jul 19, 2012)

dalecamino said:


> OKLAHOMAN said:
> 
> 
> > FOTFLMFAO:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:
> ...




Jeeezzze, you guys should get out more!!  That was very popular in high school!! 1960 something.


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## seamus7227 (Jul 19, 2012)

Now that was funny, i dont care who you are, crude, but funny!:biggrin:


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## PTsideshow (Jul 19, 2012)

My mother is a master wood carver with the ribbons to prove it from the local wood carving group. To achieve that status one has to enter the monthly contests and win so many 1st places.
My father is a better carver than my mother, he never entered any of the monthly contests. He isn't approved to be called a master carver. It does irritate some of the other members to the nth degree. That my father never cared to enter. At the the club shows it would further irritate the same people when the public would make comments about how much better my fathers carvings were then the ones with the ribbons.

I always thought that the titles, were really to make somebody feel good about themselves.
They have the same pointless debate in clowning circles, people call themselves Master Clowns, or Master Level Clowns. They can't fall on their faces and pull a bouquet out of their a$$ and get a laugh, but they want to be referred to as a Master! The only thing they are a Master of is BS.

Always strive to do your best! And you then can say I am Master of my fate!
:clown:


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## hilltopper46 (Jul 19, 2012)

I've given this subject some thought in the past.

I don't have a bone to pick with the Pen Makers Guild so please don't take this next statement as criticism. The issue I have with their criteria for acceptance is to "(your) submission helps move the state of the art of pen making further. Perfection in fit and finish is expected along with a new or novel application in materials". I think this rules out some really good craftsmen (and women) who don't have a new or novel approach to the craft, but who can produce a pen to high standards of fit and finish. It would be interesting for a committee to develop some standards for acceptance into a level of craftsmanship that really have some meaning.

It would take time to develop the standards and there would need to be a mechanism in place to submit a variety of samples for examination.  I think their might be room for a number of levels:

With only a little thought here are some ideas:

Pen maker Level One: Proficient at fit and finish with a variety of styles of pen where the hardware comes in a package that is commercially available :wink:. Barrel material is single piece of wood or acrylic.

Pen maker Level Two: Can produce a pen with parts used from a commercially available hardware package :wink: but with modifications or customizations that make a unique and pleasing style that is viable as a writing instrument in daily use. Barrel material is single piece of wood or acrylic.

Pen Artist Level One: Can produce a segmented blank that is attractive and uses at least three different species or colors of acrylic or metals or a combination thereof. One of the species, colors or metals can be used as an accent. The blank must be submitted on a pen that meets the level of Pen Maker Level One and must be viable for daily use as a writing instrument.

Pen Artist Level two: Can produce a cast blank that is attractive.  The blank must be submitted on a pen that meets the level of Pen Maker  Level One and must be viable for daily use as a writing instrument.

I think there would be room for a number of categories and sub-categories.

The thing that would keep this from happening is that it would require some time and effort on the part of a number of folks to establish the categories and then develop a consistent standard for judging the pens.  A good thing would be to have the pen pass by the judges anonymously.

I think personally, that there are a number of us who would strive to meet the various levels, and I believe that the art of pen making is well enough established that these levels could be established and judged fairly objectively.


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## Linarestribe (Jul 19, 2012)

Your not a master until the person who taught you dies.


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## RustySplinters (Jul 19, 2012)

Linarestribe said:


> Your not a master until the person who taught you dies.




So I have to wait until all you bums die?  No thanks I like learning from you alive personally.


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## BKelley (Jul 20, 2012)

I ain't trying to meet any levels.  I strive to enjoy a hobby that has given me much pleasure with some financial returns.  

Ben


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## Scott (Jul 20, 2012)

If you are trying to become a Master Penmaker, you likely never will.

It's a matter of dedication to quality, and a drive to try new things.  In my mind, there is also an element of helping others to advance their skills.

You don't become a master because you want to, but rather you're a master because others consider you as such, usually long before you would ever be aware of it.

Good luck!

Scott.


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## terryf (Jul 20, 2012)

Im my shop/studio I am the master!


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## JMCU (Jul 20, 2012)

Titles aren’t particularly important to me if I like the product (most important) and the recipient likes it then the label doesn’t matter.


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## Sylvanite (Jul 20, 2012)

Linarestribe said:


> Your not a master until the person who taught you dies.



What if you're self-taught?

Seriously though, the term "master" only had meaning when crafts were goverened by guilds (or in current terms, unions).  When the guild determined you had reached the level where you could run your own shop, take apprentices, teach your trade to others (and, of course, pay your guild dues), then you were a master.  To prove to the guild that you were worthy, you had to produce a "master piece".

Acceptance to the Pen Makers' Guild is the closest analog we have for penturning.

Regards,
Eric


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## bitshird (Jul 20, 2012)

PenMan1 said:


> Glenn McCullough said:
> 
> 
> > what do you call someone extremely proficient in putting a worm on a hook?
> ...



Andy, around this part of the country we have Many Expert Fishermen, you should see the way they bait the hook,:monkey:
Then on the other side is our very own "Master Scroller" (Jeff Powell) he's the real thing, 
Ahh another great contributor missing for quite a while. I think the way he's proven him self a Master is by the amount of his work is seen around that people have purchased.


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## TellicoTurning (Jul 20, 2012)

I've always contended that titles don't really mean much... one of my favorite says is"

"Even the Queen needs a dollar to get a loaf of bread"

At one time in my life, I was the Vice-President and treasurer of my company, but I still swept the floor when it was dirty.  The President and CEO worked in the warehouse loading and unloading trucks and packing freight.


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## Displaced Canadian (Jul 20, 2012)

Titles don't ever really mean anything. At my last company a maintenance supervisor was "promoted" past me to assistant maintenance director of the north west region then was sent to work for me the, senior maintenance supervisor. Technically he was my boss and he made $3 more per hour, but when people asked who was in charge of the project the company owners said it was me.
 If someone does one day call you a master pen maker just remember you got there by practice and pushing yourself to do better. Never stop trying to improve.


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## jd99 (Jul 20, 2012)

I've never been a master. been certified and certifiable :biggrin:, but never a master.

Class A Mold/Tool and Die maker
Certified Welder
Certified PC Tech (Pre CompTI A+ Certification)
A+ Certification
Certified Novell Administrator 2.x, 3.x, 4.x, 5.x...
Certified Novell Engineer 2.x, 3.x, 4.x, 5.x...
Certified Directory Engineer
Microsoft Certified Solutions Expert, all versions to date...
Cisco Certified Network Assoicate
And a bunch of other vendor Cetifications, but no master clasifications...:wink: :redface:


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## EBorraga (Jul 20, 2012)

I've been an ASE Master Tech for about 10 years now. I'll never be a master pen maker as I don't have enough time to devote to it. I make a living with cars, and when I want to escape the reality of life, I make pens. Nobody to critique them but me, and if it takes me a week to make a pen, so be it.


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## alamocdc (Jul 20, 2012)

I love this little craft of ours, though some consider it more of a hobby. And that's okay too. It is what you want it to be. And it will be what you make of it. Some remain content to stay within the bounds of the packaged parts that some call "kits" and manufactured, or pre-cut blanks. Others choose to move forward away from both, and many in varying degrees. Does that make one any more proficient (hence, apprentice, journeyman and master) than another? It might, but not necessarily. For me, I don't wish to be pigeon holed. I know that I pale in comparison to the likes of folks like Brian Gray and the Gisi's. I also know that I have created some fairly accomplished pieces that others might find beyond their limits.

Here is the bottom line. If you need a title, by all means use one. Some people need those sorts of things in life. For me, I reached self-actualization ages ago and I'm happy with what I can do. And I keep pushing myself through boundries. I guess if I had a preference, I'd say just call me a pen artisan. And as a dear, departed friend and mentor was fond of saying, YMMV.


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## reiddog1 (Jul 20, 2012)

I would consider myself a 5th degree master of having fun turning pens!!  Just saying.

Dave


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## BSea (Jul 20, 2012)

Are you still an artist if your wife parks her car in your "studio"?


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## NewLondon88 (Jul 20, 2012)

chriselle said:


> I chuckled....but it kinda rubbed me the wrong way.:tongue:



well then you ... ah ... might not be doing it right. :tongue:


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## Fatdawg (Jul 20, 2012)

A master craftsman or master tradesman is a member of a guild. In a guild only masters are allowed to be members of the guild.
An aspiring master would have to pass through the career chain from _apprentice_ to _journeyman_ before he could be elected to become a master craftsman. He would then have to produce a masterpiece before he could actually join the guild. If the masterpiece was not accepted by the masters, he was not allowed to join the guild, possibly remaining a journeyman for the rest of his life.


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## CSue (Jul 20, 2012)

BSea said:


> Are you still an artist if your wife parks her car in your "studio"?



ROFL:biggrin:


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## seamus7227 (Jul 20, 2012)

BSea said:


> Are you still an artist if your wife parks her car in your "studio"?



Now thats funny, I dont care who you are!


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## CSue (Jul 20, 2012)

IMHO, the "Age" of "the Masters" is rarely applicable to craftsmen in these days.  As someone already explained, the origin of the term came as one became skilled, knowledgeable and with enough profit that s/he could open their own business and teach others that craft or skill.

Understanding it now, I think attaining a true "Master . . . " title only comes when your peers in general recognize you have skills in this craft, knowledge enough to share and teach others, willingness and generosity and care enough for this craft that you not only yearn to do it with more and more skill, but you yearn to share your knowledge and skill and look forward to see others learn enough to succeed you.  

There are a few in this group that I see many, in general, treat as Masters of some one or other aspects of this craft.  There are a few I consider to be Masters in their own specialty of this craft.  Not all of them are members of the Master Penmakers Guild.  But they are Masters at their craft, none the less.

I have been given a "Master's" . . . And have a certificate to prove it.  But not in any aspect of penturning or woodworking.  And it doesn't matter to me, though I did work hard to attain that rank.  What matters to me is sharing whatever knowledge, skill and passion I have gleaned through those Masters I've learned from . . . To perpetuate this craft.  

Earning the title of "Master of " isn't worth spit if you don't share your skill and talent and help others attain the same.  If all it does is give you a title to "lord over" others, you are not worthy of the title.

Just my opinion.  And not mean to offend anyone.


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## Grizz (Jul 20, 2012)

Quite simply.  No there is not.  "Master" requires certain elements in many different fields.  There is nothing set up like that in 'pen turning.'  Nor is there one for Scroll-saw.  But according to some, if you get called a 'Master' long enough, you can consider yourself one.


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## jplifka (Jul 23, 2012)

Thanks to everyone for all the responses - quite interesting! The next time someone asks me this question, I will be much more informed.


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## Smitty37 (Jul 25, 2012)

PenMan1 said:


> Glenn McCullough said:
> 
> 
> > what do you call someone extremely proficient in putting a worm on a hook?
> ...


Just a fancy way of saying a male homosapians....


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## Smitty37 (Jul 25, 2012)

*No Government readers!!!!!!!!*

I hope no one from the Government reads this - if they do they'll realize that pen makers don't have to have a pen maker's license and that they are missing the opportunity to fleece another small segment of the population.

Then look to be:
1. fingerprinted - at your expense
2. background checked - at your expense (and your background check for top secret government clearance with a crypto rider will not count)
3. photo id issued by an authority other than where you got your driver's license.
4. manditory attendance at annual classes warning you of the health risks of spilled ink.
5. signing papers assuring that you are in full compliance with all OSHA standards.
6. conspicuous posting of all nondiscrimination laws, rules and regulations
7. tested annually to see what your level is....Master is the highest unless your uncle is a high level government official in which case you can be a Senior Master and if he's a congressman a Master Master.
8. required to pay a large fee to cover the cost of administering all of the above.:biggrin::biggrin:


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## avbill (Jul 27, 2012)

Eagle waas a master pen turner


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## plantman (Jul 28, 2012)

Andrew_K99 said:


> Once you sell your first $1000 pen, you're a master. Until then you're (hopefully) doing something you enjoy.
> 
> AK


 
 Andrew: You see this it the problem with some people from Canada! They are so far north, that they live with their heads in the clouds. You just told 99.9% of the pen turners out there that they will never be "master" pen turners. If you, or anyone for that matter, has honed his or her skills to the point that they are "Masters" in their craft and therefore can no longer improve their skills any more, and judge others peoples work according to your standard of selling a $1000 pen, then there is no hope for the rest of us!! We may as well quit now and save time and money. Jim S


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## plantman (Jul 28, 2012)

*master pen turner*



hilltopper46 said:


> I've given this subject some thought in the past.
> 
> I don't have a bone to pick with the Pen Makers Guild so please don't take this next statement as criticism. The issue I have with their criteria for acceptance is to "(your) submission helps move the state of the art of pen making further. Perfection in fit and finish is expected along with a new or novel application in materials". I think this rules out some really good craftsmen (and women) who don't have a new or novel approach to the craft, but who can produce a pen to high standards of fit and finish. It would be interesting for a committee to develop some standards for acceptance into a level of craftsmanship that really have some meaning.
> 
> ...


:wink::wink: Tony: I agree with you 100%. I hate lables. People will tell you if you are good, better, or best at what you do!! If everyone had the same tastes and skills, the world would be in perfect harmony. Last time I looked, we had not reached that point yet.   Jim S


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## Smitty37 (Jul 28, 2012)

plantman said:


> hilltopper46 said:
> 
> 
> > I've given this subject some thought in the past.
> ...


 I agree that the highlighted material above indicates that their criteria of membership is flawed.  They say they want to pattern themselves after the 'old' craft guilds we read about in history classes....well membership in those guilds was based solely on craftsmanship - nothing new or novel (actually if they use the word novel the definition includes 'new' was required.  But it is their club and I don't think I'll ever be good enough to want to become a member anyway.


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## Andrew_K99 (Jul 28, 2012)

plantman said:


> Andrew_K99 said:
> 
> 
> > Once you sell your first $1000 pen, you're a master. Until then you're (hopefully) doing something you enjoy.
> ...


You've taken my comment way too seriously.

Like the majority that have given their opinion I don't think there is a need for a title so I put a REALLY high target on it that I and most will probably never hit.  For most of us we should be content that this is a hobby we enjoy and will never get a title as there is no governing body that'll appoint you one.

Also, you're poke at Canada was distasteful at best, you should try to stay on point and not resort to preschool antics. 

AK


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## plantman (Jul 28, 2012)

Andrew_K99 said:


> plantman said:
> 
> 
> > Andrew_K99 said:
> ...


 
 AK: I disagree with several points you tried to make in you rebuttal above. First I don't seem to be alone in taking your comment to seriously. Second, I did not take a "poke" at Canada, only some people who don't understand the impact of what they have just said. I love Canada and go there all the time. Third, I think "preschool antics" was a put down to me personaly, as was your opening thread to 99.9% of all penturners. I belong to a woodworkers "Guild" and the main objective is to advance the knowledge of all members, not to see who is the "master". And my jokes about getting mail out of Canada is fact not fiction.:redface: I will apologize ahead of time if I have ruffled any feathers.    Jim S


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## Dale Lynch (Jul 28, 2012)

Being called Master always makes me feel selfconsious.I tell her not to but she does it anyway because she thinks I am.Not pen related.


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## plantman (Jul 28, 2012)

*"master'*



CSue said:


> IMHO, the "Age" of "the Masters" is rarely applicable to craftsmen in these days. As someone already explained, the origin of the term came as one became skilled, knowledgeable and with enough profit that s/he could open their own business and teach others that craft or skill.
> 
> Understanding it now, I think attaining a true "Master . . . " title only comes when your peers in general recognize you have skills in this craft, knowledge enough to share and teach others, willingness and generosity and care enough for this craft that you not only yearn to do it with more and more skill, but you yearn to share your knowledge and skill and look forward to see others learn enough to succeed you.
> 
> ...


 
:wink::wink: You rock Girl!!!!!! Behind you 100%      Jim S


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## Glenn McCullough (Jul 28, 2012)

ed4copies said:


> dalecamino said:
> 
> 
> > OKLAHOMAN said:
> ...


Like Masters, some jokes stand the test of time!!!


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## Smitty37 (Jul 28, 2012)

Glenn McCullough said:


> ed4copies said:
> 
> 
> > dalecamino said:
> ...


 Aaaah - make that 1950 something......


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## leehljp (Jul 28, 2012)

Linarestribe said:


> Your not a master until the person who taught you dies.



I know this was probably written in jest, but unfortunately it is true in some cases and that is not good. I know some woodworkers in Japan that are master artists with wood but because they are/were in their mid-40's they could not be considered "masters" for that very reason alone.

One of my Japanese friends who could not speak a word of English came the States a few years ago (San Deigo area) and spent a week teaching Japanese woodworking techniques at a college there. While there, Sam Maloof attended, through an intrepeter conversed with my friend. SM gave an autographed book to Maeno-san along with a personal letter of appreciation. For Sam Maloof to do that would be one of the best honors anyone, ANYONE could have. Yet, Maeno-san was not really considered a "master" craftsman in Japan simply because he was too young. His day job was an art teacher at a university! But his passion and gifting was in woodworking! 

An old Chinese proverb: Out of blue comes deep blue! Meaning - the student surpasses the teacher! That is what teachers should strive for in reaching their students!


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## zig613 (Jul 29, 2012)

Andrew: You see this it the problem with some people from Canada! They are so far north, that they live with their heads in the clouds. Jim S[/quote]

Plantman/Jim... I'm glad that you said "some" because I would want you to stero-type us all into the same group just because we live "so far north" and across the border. Just the same as some of us Canadians wouldn't do that to our all friends south of the border. 

Wade


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## Timebandit (Jul 29, 2012)

hilltopper46 said:


> I've given this subject some thought in the past.
> 
> I don't have a bone to pick with the Pen Makers Guild so please don't take this next statement as criticism. The issue I have with their criteria for acceptance is to "(your) submission helps move the state of the art of pen making further. Perfection in fit and finish is expected along with a new or novel application in materials". I think this rules out some really good craftsmen (and women) who don't have a new or novel approach to the craft, but who can produce a pen to high standards of fit and finish. It would be interesting for a committee to develop some standards for acceptance into a level of craftsmanship that really have some meaning.



Tony, i think you have a misconception of what they mean. If you look at these links

Pen Makers Guild

Pen Makers Guild

Pen Makers Guild

you will see that there are even kit pens in the guild. Now this is in no way new or novel approach to penturning. Neither are some of the entries. There are several segmented pens and some of them are just that, just segmented, and arent showing some novel new approach. They are beautiful and took skill, but dont use a new and novel approach to doing it. There are also several modified kit pens, even slimlines. Again not new and novel. Your acceptance is based on your quality of work. Now, sure they are looking for you to push yourself and try something new and novel, but it isnt a requirement for you to get into the guild. You just have to make a perfect pen, with great fit and finish and not just be a plain old piece of wood or resin. Our own George Butcher(Texatdurango) and Brian Gray are in there and there while there pens are beautiful and deserve to be in there, you will see that they are both just bulb fillers. No new or novel approach there. Just something different than what the rest of the people are doing, and perfect in design, fit and finish.

Justin


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## clapiana (Jul 29, 2012)

PenMan1 said:
			
		

> Sorry, Glenn! I just can't help myself:biggrin:
> 
> The person you described is a Master Baiter:biggrin:



hahahhehehehohohoho


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## plantman (Jul 29, 2012)

zig613 said:


> Andrew: You see this it the problem with some people from Canada! They are so far north, that they live with their heads in the clouds. Jim S


 
Plantman/Jim... I'm glad that you said "some" because I would want you to stero-type us all into the same group just because we live "so far north" and across the border. Just the same as some of us Canadians wouldn't do that to our all friends south of the border. 

Wade[/quote]

 Hi Wade: I am happy to hear from you. As I said I love your country and your people. I guess my point was that there are "some" people everywhere, who even with the best intensions, somehow say something that strikes a chord in others that doesn't sit right. I'm am not perfect, will never be perfect, and do not set my goal as being perfect. I don't expect those around me to be perfect unless they are holding my heart in their hands on the operating table. Even then I can only hope for them to do the best with the skill and knowledge they have. I dislike being told, or someone telling other people, that they will never be a "master" at something they enjoy doing. If we are told this ahead of time, it takes away the insentive of improving your craft or trying something new you haven't done before. I find I never get a project finished without thinking of a way I could have made it better, faster, or improved on it in someway. 
    This concludes the Sunday AM sermon. Bless you all, may you live in peace with one another, and injoy the love of those close to you. Amen Jim S


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## bastallard (Jul 29, 2012)

Master of My Domain!!  

Seinfeld quote.


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## maxwell_smart007 (Jul 29, 2012)

Master implies complete dominance - 'mastery' of one's medium.  Ideologically, I think 'Master' has connotations that should be hard to attain.


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## PenMan1 (Jul 29, 2012)

Isn't Master what they called you when you wore knee britches and had your lunch money pinned inside your shirt pocket?

I know when I qualified for my Ovaltine "secret decoder ring", it came addressed to MASTER  Andrew Little. So, I guess I'm a Master, by the Ovaltine standard anyway. To qualify for this prestigious honor I had to collect 10 Ovaltine labels, be rich enough to afford a postage stamp and smart enough to address an envelope.


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## maxwell_smart007 (Jul 29, 2012)

PenMan1 said:


> Isn't Master what they called you when you wore knee britches and had your lunch money pinned inside your shirt pocket?
> 
> I know when I qualified for my Ovaltine "secret decoder ring", it came addressed to MASTER  Andrew Little. So, I guess I'm a Master, by the Ovaltine standard anyway. To qualify for this prestigious honor I had to collect 10 Ovaltine labels, be rich enough to afford a postage stamp and smart enough to address an envelope.



You're right - I had forgotten that.  My grandmother always called me 'Master' when she addressed my birthday cards in gradeschool...


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## Smitty37 (Jul 29, 2012)

PenMan1 said:


> Isn't Master what they called you when you wore knee britches and had your lunch money pinned inside your shirt pocket?
> 
> I know when I qualified for my Ovaltine "secret decoder ring", it came addressed to MASTER Andrew Little. So, I guess I'm a Master, by the Ovaltine standard anyway. To qualify for this prestigious honor I had to collect 10 Ovaltine labels, be rich enough to afford a postage stamp and smart enough to address an envelope.


 Right on....Master used to refer to a unmarried male such as Miss referred to a unmarried. My aunts - especially those on my father's side -  used to send me cards addressed to Master LeRoy Smith....


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## Smitty37 (Jul 29, 2012)

maxwell_smart007 said:


> Master implies complete dominance - 'mastery' of one's medium. Ideologically, I think 'Master' has connotations that should be hard to attain.


 I might be mistakes but I believe in certain trades licensing uses the term "Master" . It is a step above journeyman and I believe in at least some states it requires an exam to get a 'master' designation....such as Master Electrician.

I believe that it designates a level of competance above journeyman but not "dominance"....


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