# M3 blanks- can you go tubeless?



## BigguyZ (Sep 15, 2010)

OK, so I ordered my collet chuck and a few other items from PSI.  I also ordered a M3 blank.  I saw that it was only 5/8", but it was also only $17!  Unfortunately, it's also only 3" _long_ :redface:  So, it looks like I have a great blank for a Sierra....  

I'm wondering if I can judt drill it for the correct size like a aluminum blank.  Or do you think the tube is necessary for the strength?

Thanks,
Travis


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## DCBluesman (Sep 16, 2010)

Depends on how much pucker you can stand...but what would the advantage be to going tubeless?


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## PenMan1 (Sep 16, 2010)

Tube it! M3 has no give factor. So, unless you make a Sierra, Elegent, Gatsby, et. al (where it just fits over the top and has no mechanical purpose), the transmisson will quit, soon! 

My suggestion would be to make a Jr., Baron, Sedona, Triton, Rhineheart  rollerball BOTTOM out of the M3 and with a top barrel out of aluminum, brass, acrylic or other material.

 M3 and transmissions (with or without brass)just don't get along. I don't make M3 at ALL any more. IT IS THE SINGLE SOURCE OF MY WARRANTY CLAIMS.


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## devowoodworking (Sep 16, 2010)

BigguyZ said:


> I'm wondering if I can judt drill it for the correct size like a aluminum blank. Or do you think the tube is necessary for the strength?
> 
> Thanks,
> Travis


 
M3 is not like a solid metal blank...you'll need to tube it! :wink:


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## BigguyZ (Sep 16, 2010)

OK, OK....  just curious.   I figured for as expensive as it is, I should be able to do something interesting with it.  But yeah, I don't think I'll be using M3 in the future.  Interesting material, but waaaaaay overpriced for what it is.


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## GoodTurns (Sep 16, 2010)

BigguyZ said:


> .....  Interesting material, but waaaaaay overpriced for what it is.



but it looks real nice!  definitely too soft for tubeless.


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## jimbob91577 (Sep 16, 2010)

Not to hijack the thread here - but is the material soft?  I mean if one wanted to make custom center bands out of some of it, would they be prone to nicks and dings (highly technical terms, i know)?

What if someone wanted to replace the external parts of say a baron pen with parts made from a M3 blank?


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## GoodTurns (Sep 16, 2010)

jimbob91577 said:


> Not to hijack the thread here - but is the material soft?  I mean if one wanted to make custom center bands out of some of it, would they be prone to nicks and dings (highly technical terms, i know)?
> 
> What if someone wanted to replace the external parts of say a baron pen with parts made from a M3 blank?



I wouldn't see a problem as long as it is supported.  I am definitely not a scientist (feel free to chime in), but the structure of the pen, being made from an "atomized and reconstituted" material simply does not seem to have the finished density to support an impact without added support (tube or fittings).  I have not tried to make cb's or finials from it, but would not hesitate to do so.  It just feels that a thin wall of the material, unsupported, would not survive anything beyond gentle use.

my 2 cents...fwiw


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## BigguyZ (Sep 16, 2010)

GoodTurns said:


> BigguyZ said:
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> > .....  Interesting material, but waaaaaay overpriced for what it is.
> ...



Well I've seen posts saying that the material threads well, so I assumed it'd be OK to go tubeless then.  But if not, I'll go ahead and use a tube...


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## GoodTurns (Sep 16, 2010)

BigguyZ said:


> GoodTurns said:
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> > BigguyZ said:
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again...no science to back it up, but threading might be ok as the screwed in parts would support the tube.  I have a "nub" of M3 left over, i'll drill and turn it this weekend...bet I can crush it in my bare hands when turned to pen wall thickness....only the finest in experimentation!


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## BigguyZ (Sep 16, 2010)

Well if you want to experiment, I'd love to hear the results.  I have an apartment I'm rennovating, so there'll be no pen turning for me until at least October...



GoodTurns said:


> BigguyZ said:
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> > GoodTurns said:
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## GoodTurns (Sep 19, 2010)

I love science!

drilled a 3/4 inch long m3 black and white mokume nub with a 12.5mm bit (jr gent top), turned it down to 1.5 +/- mm wall thickness and tried to crush it in my hands....nothing doing.  then my kid who lives in the gym and thinks his dad is old and weak tried it...nothing doing.  solid as you could want it to be....I'm guessing tubeless would be fine.  have at it!


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## randbcrafts (Sep 19, 2010)

Thanks for the research Jon, that's very interesting to know.


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## ldb2000 (Sep 19, 2010)

George (texatdurango) said he did several kitless pens with the M3 blanks and they didn't hold up very well . He would be the person to ask why , what didn't last , threads , bodies or what . I've done a number of tru stone kitless pens and they have held up well , I would think that M3 would be similar but who knows .


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## BigguyZ (Sep 20, 2010)

I'm going to try it.  I'm not emphatic about the product, so if I loose the blank in the process oh well.  If that's the case, it's just another blank IMO, and really isn't worth the cost if you can't do more advanced stuff with it.


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## ldb2000 (Sep 20, 2010)

What are you trying to make with it ? If it's a kitless pen where there will be no stress from an parts like transmissions or clips I say go for it . If it is going to be a kit pen like a Sierra , I think you said , why do you want to go tubeless . The lack of a tube won't make it any lighter , there is no real advantage to go tubeless on a kit pen .


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## JJturns (Sep 20, 2010)

I made my first M3 kitless pen in September 2009 and it is still in daily use today.  At the time I made it George (texatdurango) was kind enough to tell me about his experience and advised me to use it for awhile before getting too excited.  I think George was one of the first to try the material but I don’t know exactly when.  Since I respect George and his expertise, as well as his unselfish candor, I decided to do just that.
 
I also talked to Michael Kogan to question him about what I learned from George.  I learned back then that they had been working to improve the formula.  My guess is that they have made some improvements because my first pen is still in use.
 
I would not eliminate the tube in a pen that you intend to press parts into.  In fact I would not suggest you eliminate the tube in any pen just for the sake of eliminating the tube.  I agree with Butch (who was also of help to me) and the question he asked.  M3 is a great product and so are many others but you really need to work within the limitations of any product and remember all products have limitations.
 
Check out the kitless pen made by “hewunch” at this link to get some idea of what can be done with M3.  
 
http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=67405

JJ


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## JJturns (Sep 20, 2010)

Sorry I misspoke the pen at this link is M3 but it is not kitless.

JJ


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