# Does Epoxy go BAD?



## OSCAR15 (Aug 4, 2006)

Folks:
I have always used a 5 min 2 part epoxy with no problems. Lately, I have had several blanks come loose from the tube.  Epoxy I am using is six moths old (maybe 8).
Does anyone here know if this glue has limited shelf life? I know poly glues certainly do. Thanks OSCAR


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## alamocdc (Aug 4, 2006)

Dave, it does have a shelf life, but I've not seen it go bad in 6 months. The stuff I've been using is a year old (almost empty now) and still holds strong. Like paint and many other chemicals, tempereature can affect the shelf life.


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## mrcook4570 (Aug 4, 2006)

I am experiencing the same thing with mine so I just recently bought a new batch.  Haven't had a chance to use any of the new stuff yet.


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## OSCAR15 (Aug 4, 2006)

Billy....that may be it.  We are in a heat spell here.  My shop is hot enough to fire clay. Thanks Oscar


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## bonefish (Aug 4, 2006)

In my experience, five minute epoxy will not adhere to the brass blanks regardless of age.

Bonefish


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## alamocdc (Aug 4, 2006)

> _Originally posted by bonefish_
> <br />In my experience, five minute epoxy will not adhere to the brass blanks regardless of age.
> 
> Bonefish



Are you roughing up the tubes? I rough mine up on my belt sander and then clean them with DNA. Haven't had a failure yet (that wasn't my fault that is).


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## turned_for_good (Aug 4, 2006)

I use five min epoxy on all my pens and hardly ever rough up the tubes.  Have never had a problem.

Yes epoxy has a shelf life, with mine I notice it because it seems to be a little thicker when it comes out of the bottle.


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## wdcav1952 (Aug 4, 2006)

I have to go with the majority here, 5 min epoxy bonds better than anything else I have used, particularly when the tubes are roughed up a bit.


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## OSCAR15 (Aug 4, 2006)

I have always :
roughed blanks
used 5 min epoxy,,,,
It sticks better than anything else...It has just been recently that I experienced a few failures..


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## ilikewood (Aug 4, 2006)

I'm a 5 minute epoxy guy with roughed tubes too.  Works every time.

I have had my epoxy go bad with time.  The resin side will start to look cloudy, and then when you try to use it, it will not set.

BTW- if you heat alot during sanding, it will soften the epoxy to the point of coming loose.


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## JimGo (Aug 4, 2006)

Not that you've ever done that, right Bill?


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## ilikewood (Aug 4, 2006)

What....ME?....NEVER!![]


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## Dario (Aug 4, 2006)

Short answer...everything goes bad...except Twinkies LOL [][}][][}]


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## ilikewood (Aug 4, 2006)

Hey, Twinkies go bad....they have a half-life the same as Plutonium.


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## alamocdc (Aug 4, 2006)

Couldn't prove it by me, Bill!


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## jscola (Aug 4, 2006)

I never met a twinke I didin't like!!           Joe


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## bonefish (Aug 4, 2006)

About cleaning tubes:

Yes, I rough up the tubes. I also clean them before gluing. A few years ago, I was having problems with tubes coming loose. Sometimes when I pressed a fitting in, and sometimes when trimming the blank with a mill.

I cleaned sanded and cleaned some tubes and applied dirrerent types of glue to them, but without inserting the tubes in the blank.

After the glue dried, I tried scrapping it off with a knife blade. The five minute epoxy just peeled away withough any effort. So did CA.

Some have said that they haven't had a problem, and I don't doubt that. Even though the glue peeled off easily, if the tube and blank is throughly coated, there is probably enough adhesion to hold everything togather.

The first pens I made, about ten years ago, I used the slim line kits and CA. The CA held for a short time, then tubes started coming out while I was carrying them in my pocket, and they also came out of pens that I had given away. 

I couldn't sell these first pens, and the only way I could get rid of them was to give them away.

This has been mentioned before, but the glue giving the best adhesion has been JB Weld, the 24 hour type, and Devcon, also the 24 hour type, and GG.

Some of you might be familiar with Brownell's Accreglass. It is an a two part mix that is used to fill bed gunstocks. According to Brownell's literature, it will supposedly adhere to about everything. It won't. Brass pen tubes, for example. 

I tried some of the Elmer's poly glue, and had several tubes come out.

The problem is, and I'm not a chemist so I can't explain why, but some glues will only barely adhere to brass, if at all.

I don't mean that the tubes will just fall out if you hold them upright after gluing, but I have pushed a lot of them out as described above, and also with a pen mill.

On straight turned tubes, sometimes, depending on the type pen, the blank is turned almost paper thin. The bond between the blank and the tube is the only thing holding the wood or other material togather.

Anyone ever been making just one more teeny cut and had the blank splinter?

 My opinion, folks, based on my own, and no one else's experiences.

By the way, I don't use CA or five minute epoxy to glue brass tubes.

Bonefish


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## wdcav1952 (Aug 4, 2006)

> _Originally posted by jscola_
> <br />I never met a twinke I didin't like!!           Joe



Thank goodness you added that "e"!!!!!!!!!!!!![}]


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## Randy_ (Aug 5, 2006)

I had the same question recently and wrote a couple of manufacturers to see what they had to say.  Both recommended getting fresh stuff if it was more than a year old.  I've used epoxy that was more than a year old and gotten what appeared to be good bonds; but have no way of knowing if they were as strong as they would have been with fresh material?

I'm pretty careful about storing all of my chemicals.  They never get too hot or too cold.  Improper storage can be a killer!!!


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## woodwish (Aug 5, 2006)

I started with CA, and hated it.  I started using 5-minute epoxy and liked it long before I ever heard of this forum or actually knew of any other penturners.  It just seemed like a better idea.  I wipe the tubes with laquer thinner to get any residual grease off them. Then I slide all of them on a wooden dowel (tip I got on here) to hold them while I hit them with a sander to rough them up.  Mix up the 5-min epox, roll the tube in it, use an insertion tool to stick them in place, let stand for far longer than 5 minutes, and never had a problem.  I had not made any pens for awhile due to other projects, but decided to make some a few months ago for special gifts.  Ordered some expensive BOW and did the usual routine.  Took out some old epoxy and mixed as usual and followed what I always have done.  Later I noticed the epoxy was still sticky but tried to use my pen mill anyway, without going into length explanation I ruined that blank.  Epox had obviously not hardened, that has been 6 weeks and still sticky.  Can't seem to force the tubes out to try again, can't just throw it all away, so it just sits there teasing me.  Ordered new BOW and new tubes, bought some new 5-min epox and have had no problems.  I did take some of the old epox and mixed a few more batchs just to see what it would happen and none of ever set up completely.

This has been a really lengthy answer to say "Yes, epoxy has a shelf life and it's shorter than most people think".  Or at least that is true in my experience.


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## bonefish (Aug 5, 2006)

Ray:

You can get the tubes out, and the non-dried epoxy makes it even easier.

Use a drill, just a tiny bit larger that the tube's inside diameter. The heat from drilling might cause the glue to turn loose and the drill will push the tube on out. I have done this many times.

Only rarely do I have to go to a drill as large as the outside diameter of the tube, but most times, the drill pushes the drill out before it goes all the way through the tube. Go very, very slow, and hold the blank tight. Drills bits have a bad habit of grabbing and pulling the bit down in either the tube or blank and ruining both of them. 

I don't know what size pen you are making, but I have left the tube in the blank and glued another, smaller tube inside, and used a diferent model kit.

You can also heat an iron rod, slightly smaller that the I.D of the tube, and stick the hot piece of iron in the tube. This will also make the epoxy turn loose.

I assume that your objective is to salvage the blanks. Of course, you will ruin the tubes, but they are cheap compared to BOW.

Bonefish


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## Stretch (Aug 5, 2006)

Have you left the epoxy in your window? I left the bottles there not knowing what it could do [:0]. Of course this was when it was about 110 in the shop. The epoxy seemed to be getting harder in the tubes.

From know on, I plan to keep the epoxy out of the windowsill.


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