# BAD ECONOMY (stretching your money)



## Dario (Mar 14, 2008)

Any of you guys feeling the pinch?

Any pointers to help our members save?

My tip/reminder: 
With gas prices; 
 have your car tuned, 
 check your tire pressure, 
 plan your trips, 
 use a higher MPG vehicle if you have an option,
 take out unnecessary load off your vehicle,
 carpool,
 use mass transit (bus, train, etc.) if possible
 etc.

Maybe this way you can save a bit (or have more to buy kits or Nolan's burls  LOL)


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## Dario (Mar 14, 2008)

I am sorry, not meaning to put other countries out because I know they must be feeling similar stuff so have at it too.


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## GBusardo (Mar 14, 2008)

Dairo, I am so pinched....... I have actually said to myself,  do I really need to make this car trip even if it's only 10 miles.  
A couple of things I do to help us make it pay check to pay check. 
1.  I combine trips
2.  I stopped making trips, just to check things out, to  the big box stores.
3.  We do not have a super Walmart near us, but for whatever the regular Walmart carries and we use, we buy it there. In this area, I can save an average of 75 cents for every item I buy at Walmart instead of our Foodtown or ShopRite. It sounds incredible, but I save about 40 dollars twice a month. If it isn't food and I can buy it at Walmart, that's where I buy it. 
4. I have stopped going once a quarter to Atlantic City  
   now its just special occations
5. I have switched to Geico (it's true, its much cheaper)
6. I take advantage of the land line phone company specials  that sometimes they don't tell you about. Call your phone company and ask them what better deals they have for you. You might be very surprised. I was.

I hope this helps someone


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## Ron in Drums PA (Mar 14, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Dario_
> 
> 
> take out unnecessary load off your vehicle,
> carpool,


Don't these two contradict each other?



How about borrowing someone else's car?[]


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## ed4copies (Mar 14, 2008)

BUY AMERICAN!!!

Our stuff is cheap, our labor gets paid well in those crummy, weak American dollars.  Bring over all that European and Canadian REAL money and trade with us for those puny little dollars!!!  AMERICA IS HAVING A SALE -- INVITE YOUR FRIENDS FROM OVERSEAS!!!

To the Americans: Stay home, buy a couple gamees for your kids and PLAY WITH them!!!  Reestablish the American FAMILY!!!  Fight crime - it won't be YOUR kid in jail!!!  If everyone feels this way, the jails will become empty (don't hold your breath).  But, you MAY get to KNOW your KIDS!!!


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## GoodTurns (Mar 14, 2008)

> _Originally posted by ed4copies_
> 
> To the Americans: Stay home, buy a couple gamees for your kids and PLAY WITH them!!!  Reestablish the American FAMILY!!!   But, you MAY get to KNOW your KIDS!!!



My best recent investment was a box of cards (Bicycle Playing card co, Cincinatti Ohio)...play games with the family several times a week!  Cheaper than going out and fun to boot!


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## Dario (Mar 14, 2008)

> _Originally posted by GBusardo_
> 
> 
> If it isn't food and I can buy it at Walmart, that's where I buy it.
> ...



I also use Walmart a lot...I know they sell mostly imported products but can't afford those sold elsewhere.

On insurance, check your premium every time you renew.  I once was with Geico and they are cheap...but my premium slowly crept up (no accidents or other changes).  When I told them I am switching, they kept asking me to stay and they will "fix" the problem.  I told them that their way of "rewarding" loyalty sucks and moved.  I will try them again if my current insurance try to trick me too.


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## Nolan (Mar 14, 2008)

Seeing how Hersheys close (wifes job) and housing market and construction is in the tank (my job) I guess I sell burl[B)]


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## IPD_Mrs (Mar 14, 2008)

Well Nolan that is better than you becoming a high priced call girl! [:0]

Mike


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## Nolan (Mar 14, 2008)

> _Originally posted by MLKWoodWorking_
> 
> Well Nolan that is better than you becoming a high priced call girl! [:0]
> 
> Mike



I dont know the latest in the news made 80k it seems (one client)


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## Nolan (Mar 14, 2008)

Sorry Dario no streching ideas as they always rip on me so I have decided to just try and make more


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## twoofakind (Mar 14, 2008)

I know what you mean Nolan. We store Hersheys in one of my company's warehouses and it is being shut down this year due to their cutbacks/move. The company is trying to find jobs elsewhere in the company, but that is a lot of people to "fit" in.
Andy


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## Nolan (Mar 14, 2008)

> _Originally posted by twoofakind_
> 
> I know what you mean Nolan. We store Hersheys in one of my company's warehouses and it is being shut down this year due to their cutbacks/move. The company is trying to find jobs elsewhere in the company, but that is a lot of people to "fit" in.
> Andy



Good luck, I live in a pretty small town so prospects for a good replacement job are very slim as she worked there for long enough to advance and become a company employee which helped a little on the going out end. Went on a job interview the other day and the job only paid 1/3[B)] Oh well she is enjoying staying home with little Nolan Always a bright side no matter how dark it may feel at times.


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## Ron in Drums PA (Mar 14, 2008)

> _Originally posted by ed4copies_
> 
> BUY AMERICAN!!!




Nuff Said


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## Dario (Mar 14, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Ron in Drums PA_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I agree but realistically, how many of us really do?  Check your shop.  Where is that lathe and other equipment from?  The kits?  etc.

I want to but can't...thus fueling that vicious cycle.

Yeah, I am part of the problem. [V]


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## GBusardo (Mar 14, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Ron in Drums PA_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Great advice Ron and Ed, I would if I could afford it. In a lot of cases, there is no American product. We've become a nation of service providers. I HOPE that is not being political.


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## GBusardo (Mar 14, 2008)

Dario,   My Geico cost has actually gone down,  probably because my NJ insurance was so high to begin with. I will watch out for it though, thanks


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## Ron in Drums PA (Mar 14, 2008)

Gary and Dario, 

You are both right and I'm guilty as well. 
There are too many products on the shelves that are from other nations, many times we don't have a choice. I wish we still did.

I fear it will get allot worse before it gets better. We are in it for the long haul.

Gary, IMO this is not political, just economics and I'll stop here.


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## Dario (Mar 14, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Ron in Drums PA_
> 
> I fear it will get allot worse before it gets better. We are in it for the long haul.



Much as I want to hope you are mistaken...I agree with you 100% (fearfully).  Almost everyone I read/listen/watch agree as well.


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## ed4copies (Mar 14, 2008)

Interesting, Dawn was talking with Steven (Skiprat) while he was in the USA.  He WANTED a souvenier MADE IN AMERICA!!  Wasn't easy.  

This IS a sad state of affairs, but major companies are coming back to US manufactured, due to lead times and "lost goods".  Our "just in time" inventory system is not well-suited to 4 week transport.  There IS hope.  

Because I don't want anyone to take this as political, let's just say foreign products (read WalMart) have allowed us to purchase a lot more STUFF than the more expensive clothing we once bought, made in USA.   HOWEVER, every General Electric jet engine used by Airbus will go a long way to balancing out thousands of pairs of pants.

The weak dollar CAN have great advantages.  

(color me stupid, where did the Hershey's jobs go????  We still eat chocolate, where's it being made now?? )


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## CrazyBear (Mar 14, 2008)

Hi Guys.. I hear what you are saying but unfortunately what happens in the Usa soon spreads around the world. The global econamy is going down the toilet as well. We are seeing the price of everything rise. Petrol prices over here alone are going through the roof. $10 per gallon ( just to give you an idea of how bad things are over here)

We ALL have to change our ways. but where do you go.. The workforce needs the higher wages to pay for the food on their table..yet the higher wages are part of what is driving inflation and pushing the price of everything up.

The far east can pay their workers less so we buy from them as they can keep their costs down..that leaves our workforce short of work and they start losing their jobs. We then need more tax from those in work to pay the social benefits to those who are out of work  ....and so it goes on.

I am not looking forward to the next few years


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## Jarheaded (Mar 14, 2008)

It's funny that this thread is happening now. I was just notified of upcoming cutbacks. Since I have been out for a while due to a previous injury, I am going to be one of the first to go according to a friend that works in HR. It really sucks because I am maybe one more surgery away from going back to work. I guess I won't have any work to go back to. At least I still get my pension from the government, but I don't know what some of the other guys that didn't make it to pension time will do. 
  By the way, Geico tripled my rate a few years back because my sister had over a dozen claims and tickets. Because of the last name being the same and I made the mistake of letting her use my address, I got hit hard. I switched to another company that gave me a lower rate than my original one, and after a year they doubled the rate for no reason. I left them and went back to Geico, who gave me a rate that was lower than I had been paying them in the first place. I think that they may roll a set of dice to figure out my rates. My sister no longer uses my address for her insurance or anything else.
 The economy is going to keep getting worse as long as we keep supporting a war that is not getting anywhere and has no purpose. I was taught to only fight if you can win,and if you are going to fight, make sure that it is worth winning. But my job is my job and I have to do as I was told. By the way, I had to drive my son to the airport yesterday so he could report back in and prepare to ship out to Iraq for his 3rd tour there. This crap has to end and soon, for everybodys sake.


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## alamocdc (Mar 14, 2008)

While Sam Walton was still alive Walmart went to great lengths to stock only American made brands of items if they could find them. It didn't take them long after his departure to change that.

As for feeling the pinch... yesterday I found myself thinking about buying an old VW Beetle for the commute on days I can't ride my Harley. The bad part is that with the higher gas prices, everything else will go up proportionately... except our income, of course! And it IS going to get worse before it gets better. Especially w/corporate greed at an all time high and ethics in the tank.

Don't get me wrong. I do not begrudge anyone making a profit. But when you are posting record profits in the billions to the detriment of the consumer (hence the nation) you deserve to burn in hell.


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## Nolan (Mar 14, 2008)

> _Originally posted by ed4copies_
> 
> 
> (color me stupid, where did the Hershey's jobs go????  We still eat chocolate, where's it being made now?? )



Monterey, Mexico, The newest hotspot of American Corps.


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## Dario (Mar 14, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Jarheaded_
> 
> ...if you are going to fight, make sure that it is worth winning. But my job is my job and I have to do as I was told. By the way, I had to drive my son to the airport yesterday so he could report back in and prepare to ship out to Iraq for his 3rd tour there. This crap has to end and soon, for everybodys sake.



Thank you for your service as well as your son's.

Countless American soldiers put their lives on the line serving.  Some die, maimed, torn from their family or mentally scarred.  Is it worth it?  To some maybe...but try telling that to those who lost a spouse, son, daughter, father, mother, brother, sister, friend, etc.

We also spend (four?) BILLIONS of dollars a month to sustain this war while some of our people here are loosing their house and dignity.  I can think of a few things where we can put all those money to better use.

I cringe when people rejoice and claim death is reduced by so and so % when we can easily make that ZERO if we want (or should have been zero to begin with)!!!

I agree with you and hope this stops soon!!!

(Moderators: If this post is political, which may be, please feel free to delete it.)


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## loglugger (Mar 14, 2008)

> _Originally posted by alamocdc_
> 
> While Sam Walton was still alive Walmart went to great lengths to stock only American made brands of items if they could find them. It didn't take them long after his departure to change that.
> 
> ...



Well said.
Bob


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## ed4copies (Mar 14, 2008)

> _Originally posted by n4631x_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks Nolan.  IF it helps at all, Mexico is complaining that all the trinkets sold in Mexico City are now made in China - they can't understand why these "trinket jobs" left their country!!!

(I find a certain amount of irony in that)


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## Nolan (Mar 14, 2008)

> _Originally posted by ed4copies_
> 
> 
> 
> ...




LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!! classic


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## TellicoTurning (Mar 14, 2008)

> _Originally posted by alamocdc_
> 
> While Sam Walton was still alive Walmart went to great lengths to stock only American made brands of items if they could find them. It didn't take them long after his departure to change that.



Not to disillusion you about Mr. Walton, but in 1985-86, while he was still alive, I worked as the export manager and traffic coordinator in the Houston office of a very large custom house import broker office that had part of the Wal-Mart company as a client.. we regularly cleared container after container load of goods from China, Taiwan, and other 3rd world countries that was destined to Wal-Mart stores... the sales slogan at W-M at that time was "We buy American".   

We also cleared bulk tankers of orange juice from Brazil destined to the big OJ distributors and Coconut and Palm oil from Indonesia for Proctor and Gable.   It's been a long time since we really had strong "American made" goods.  I remember that back in the 50's and maybe up into the 60's a lot of goods were labeled "American Made" or "Union Made" ... you don't see that much anymore.

And in keeping with Dario's theme, my wife and I do schedule our trips.. I just had to spend $45 for 13 gallons of gas.. plan to make that last as long as possible.  

On Insurance, I looked into Geico, but AARP's Hartford had a better rate for me... I switched from State Farm where I had been for 25 years, to Hartford and dropped my auto insurance by half.


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## R2 (Mar 14, 2008)

Nolan, you and your mates in the building game might end up in Oz!. We have a substantial housing shortage over here and a serious shortage of skilled trades people in the building area. One idea floated by the Federal Government is to issue working visas/permits to Americans in the building game to come over here and help out. The figures being floated are in the thousands - up to 15 thousand is one figure I've heard. 
Think about it!![^]


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## ed4copies (Mar 14, 2008)

> _Originally posted by R2_
> 
> Nolan, you and your mates in the building game might end up in Oz!. We have a substantial housing shortage over here and a serious shortage of skilled trades people in the building area. One idea floated by the Federal Government is to issue working visas/permits to Americans in the building game to come over here and help out. The figures being floated are in the thousands - up to 15 thousand is one figure I've heard.
> Think about it!![^]



Now, that's what I call going out of your way to teach us a little about Australia.  I bet a lot of Americans would volunteer for that project!!


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## Ron in Drums PA (Mar 14, 2008)

Chuck where you at Walmart when Hillary was on the Board of Directors?

---

I also pay for my own health insurance. Historically, I would always find the best price my joining a group
as HBA (Home Builder's Assoc), Chamber of Commerce and so, just to get group pricing. Even paying membership fees It was still the cheaper than going direct to Blue Cross. 

The last time my policy came up for renewal, I checked with Blue Cross and surprisingly they where 30% cheaper than going with a group. 

I've heard some horror stories with Aflac, enough that I would suggest to stay away from them.


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## TellicoTurning (Mar 14, 2008)

Ron,
I didn't work for Wal-Mart... just their custom's broker.. I'd never heard of Hillary until Bill got elected Prez... 

R2, I'm not in the building trade, but might learn to swing a hammer for a chance to visit the Ozland... last frontier world on Earth.


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## Nolan (Mar 14, 2008)

> _Originally posted by R2_
> 
> Nolan, you and your mates in the building game might end up in Oz!. We have a substantial housing shortage over here and a serious shortage of skilled trades people in the building area. One idea floated by the Federal Government is to issue working visas/permits to Americans in the building game to come over here and help out. The figures being floated are in the thousands - up to 15 thousand is one figure I've heard.
> Think about it!![^]



Please PM me as I have family there and would love to move. Got boat records to prove it Plus my grandama was A war bride, and Dad even went to school there.


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## SuperDave (Mar 14, 2008)

*Nolan has it right... find additional revenue streams*.

As for buying American, how many use a lathe that is made in America? I retrofitted an old Wards Powercraft and built another from scratch.  How many pen turners use a mini-lathe? Not one is made here that I am aware of.[B)]

Same goes for lathe tools. Most are made overseas somewhere. Doug Thompson makes Cryogenic treated MADE IN THE USA turning tools but most turners complain about his prices and he is 1/3 the price of the Jerry Glazer tools![B)]

Know any Made in America chucks that are currently on your lathes?[B)]

How many casters use the Famous HF Pressure Pot "on sale for $39" to cast their resin blanks?[B)]

How many use Grizzly or HF live and dead centers for their B2B turning techniques?[B)]

How about your MT Collet Chucks? Did you pay $79 for a chuck and 6 collets or did your pay $150 for an "American" chuck and $15-$25 for each collet... even then it is most likely European.[B)]

How many drive a Toyota because they last for decades. Even the ones "assembled" in America are comprised of a huge percentage of parts from overseas. Guess how Japan got around paying a higher import duty on turcks... they removed the beds and they were reclassified as passenger vehicles... shipped the beds separate and had the dealers reinstall them. If it were your business would you have done the same thing? You bet you would!

Made in America is fine. But like most consumer driven commodities, price is king. America cannot compete globally because Americans cannot afford American Made or want to save money for other items.

Made in America sounds good but has lost its steam over the years. We cannot afford Made in America, Made in America has quality issues far too often, and Made in America is only based on a _percentage of parts or services that "has" to be, supplied from or performed in, America</u>_.

Find ways to make more money so you can afford to buy and repair Made in America. No one guaranteed America a corner on the global economic market.

And for the record, it is not the oil producing countries forcing the price of gas through the roof. It is the Wall Street speculators buying Oil Futures on the Commodities Market that is forcing the price up... and making millions... in the Made in America</u>, Laissez Faire</u>, Capitalistic Free Enterprise System.</u> 

*Laissez Faire*

"_The theory or system of government that upholds the autonomous character of the economic order, believing that government should intervene as little as possible in the direction of economic affairs.</u>_"[^]

Okay, have at me, but please be gentle[]... I have to turn some wood on my Made in America Antique Lathe retrofitted with EXPENSIVE American Made parts![}]


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## GBusardo (Mar 14, 2008)

In the spirit of this post, isn't there anyone else that has a money saving tip that maybe we haven't thought of? We know the economic problems of the world and what we think might be causing them. Unfortunately, we cannot do much about them.  Any penny pinchers out there that can share their secrets?


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## MarkHix (Mar 14, 2008)

Ways to save was the original topic and since money is tight, I will only use 1 cent of my 2 cents.....

We had 3 teenage boys in the house all 1 yr apart up until a few years ago...just imagine the food they could eat!  We kept a freezer for the specials....somebody had chicken on sale, I bought enough for a month, sale on green beans, I bought as many as I could...you get the idea.  Coupons are your friend.  Watch you budget:  I kept a running total of my purchases as I shopped.  I planned a menu each week and stuck to it.  Eating out was (and still is) a special thing.  

Scrabble is still good entertainment.  

Plan all the trips for the same day so you don't waste gas or time.  Learn those good driving habits...ease off the gas well before you have to stop, accelerate slowly

Little things add up: open the curtains and blinds on the south side windows in winter for some free solar heat, shut the vents and doors on the empty boys's rooms...no since heating or cooling unused space.  

We figured out we used the cell phones all the time and never the house phone...$50 down the drain each month....easy decision and no long distance charges on the cells...while the kids were in college, they used the cells to call home, no local phone bills....and we could talk every day (after 7 of course)

Research before you spend....several of you mentioned car insurance...I work in the claims department of one of those companies so I don't know much about rates except that they are very fluid...call your carrier and ask about getting a lower rate....if taking a $40 defensive driving course will get you $50 off your insurance for 2 years, you just saved $60 over the next 2 yrs...can you get a discount for combining home and car....if you have an agent, are they splitting your vehicles into separate policies instead of a multiple car discount? 

Most of this is common sense but I have a team of people fresh out of college that report to me that all think this stuff is something special.

sorry, I guess I gave the entire two cents.


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## Dario (Mar 14, 2008)

Clip coupons.  I saw a family once (ahead of me on the line) and can't believe that out of their $250 dollar purchase...$40.00 was taken off due to coupons.

Watch out for sales especially on food items and supplies you always use at home.

My 4 year old daughter actually begs me to wash the car with her...she enjoys it so much!!!

Trips/picnics at parks are enjoyable.

Gardening can be a family affair...and if you plant herbs & veggies, save on those later too.

Cook and eat more at home...eating out really costs a lot.

Buying in bulk used to be cheaper...not always anymore so watch those unit prices instead.

Anyone wear hand me down still?  I do.

Recently purchased a lot of 4 pairs of Clarks leather shoes on eBay for $39.99 (plus $19.99 shipping & ins). Store samples but looks new (can't beat that).

I use Brita water filter (2 gallon in fridge) for drinking water...bottled water is expensive.

Pay bills online or by phone if possible and save on postage.

Use your phone instead of running around if possible (insert yellow pages ad here ).

Setting the thermostat a little higher saves a lot on cooling bills (I have mine on 74).

Going out always translate to expense (gas plus those impulse purchases)

BUDGET...have a realistic one and stick to it.


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## Tom McMillan (Mar 14, 2008)

For the past 3 years I've had to live on a very meager income.  I reduced my auto insurance to state required liability insurance and dropped my towing, which I've since been able to purchase again at Triple A.  Unfortuantely, I've had to reduce my driving, and don't get to see my kids and grandkids as much as I'd like, but do save fuel to be there for Birthday's and special occasions.  

I'm sure I would qualify for food stamps--but, I won't go that route.  I've found a large savings with my food bill by purchasing at a local Grocery Outlet Store.  If you have one near you, I suggest checking it out.  Some products are close to or are outdated, but I've found large savings in most areas.  The savings can be tremendous---I've been purchasing 3 packs of frozen pizzas (probably each pizza is 12" or larger) for $2.99.

Another great place to find savings can be your $Dollar store.  I've save a great deal there on labels, tape, popcorn, etc.


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## Tanner (Mar 14, 2008)

Buy a Ferrari CX 60!  It'll save you money, really!  Check it out.  http://www.likecool.com/Ferrari_CX_60_Bicycle--Sport--Gear.html

If I want to save money, I just forget who I borrowed it from.[:0]

All kidding aside, check this guy out he is the king of saving more and spending less.   http://clarkhoward.com/


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## Russianwolf (Mar 14, 2008)

I've definitely felt the pinch. I've been out of work twicve in four years. Due to helth reasons I'm the only bread winner in the house now, and Social Security Disability doesn't want to approve the spouse of an american with a heart condition and now a major gatric  sysytem problem that may well lead to her not being able to eat solid food FOR THE REST OF HER LIFE. To save our house we were forced into Chapter 13 bankruptcy. We are back on our feet now, but it's terrifying knowing that one more bump on the road will probably be the end of our home.

I had to sell my Dodge Ram a couple years ago as we had to go dow to one car. We bought a used Satrun Vue and it's nice and gets decent milage for a small SUV. Then I bought my Jeep 2 years ago. 1970 vintage. I paid $600 for it and have been driving it for local errands for 2+ years now. Best $600 I've spent. And it was MADE IN AMERICA.

On the bright side, I read the other day that the "experts" predict now that the US economy will "skirt a reccession". Don't know who they are talking too, but we are already in one, and have been for over a year.


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## MichaelS (Mar 14, 2008)

Well folks instead of letting the pols let the mega corps rip us off and then do nothing about it ourselves. Stop complaining and VOTE!!!!  Buy American, I wish I could but it takes a half a tank of gas to find it if you can. And while were at it lets go to the Dentist and get the Chinese lead back in our diet and------ Oh wrong post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## leehljp (Mar 14, 2008)

For a long time, LOML and I have combine our major grocery and other major shopping with trips home from work, no going out for that purpose. We do go to a movie on occasion but LOML checks out the matinee or other discounted time, or senior citizen discount times (some over 50, some over 55, and some over 60). We try to combine that with when we are in the area.

We use Skype for a majority of our long distance phone calls and Skype video for our grown girls. Since we started this (from Japan) we have saved an average of $150.00 a month. (If I want to stay married, this is as important to LOML as eating is to me.)

While the initial cost was a nearly $200.00, replacing most of our Japan house incandescent bulbs with good fluorescent bulbs has reduced our summer heat inside the house to the savings of about $100.00 a month from May - Sept. We did this on our USA house where my daughter lives and she saved about $60.00 a month for the June - Sept time frame last year. I replaced the ones in our Japan home in 2005 and have only replaced one bulb in that whole time. However, Our USA house has had one bulb (out of 24) go bad within one year (since last May).

One habit that I have picked up in Japan - I do ride my bicycle more and for local shopping, for exercise and for a time together, LOML and I use the bikes for that.


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## Gary Max (Mar 15, 2008)

Hang on to every dime you can---Our internet bill is $9.95 per month---shut the cable TV off. I go to town once a week to get food. If we stop buying it-- they will have to lower the price. Deer season is going to open early this year.


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## DCBluesman (Mar 15, 2008)

Online bill payment can save the average household about $10 per month in postage and envelopes.  Also, put your "instant on" appliances on power strips and power the strip down when the item is not in use.  Otherwise, the item is trickling away energy and increasing your electric bill.  You can also pull the plug, but at my age I hate having to bend over to pull the plug out and put it back in.


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## PenWorks (Mar 15, 2008)

Moderator please delete this thread, it is to depressing [V]  Maybe color me lucky, but I chose to make more money, so I can spend more. Maybe I am a work o holic. I believe in work hard, play hard. I use to rant and rave in my household, turn off the lights, lower the A/C, cut coupons and everyone else would look at me like I was from another planet. I never wanted for anything when I grew up, My pops worked two jobs, paid cash for everything, was never in debt, lived in a house with 1 bathromm for us all.  The generation growing up today has no clue on hard times (me included) Think things are bad now, just wait. We are about to pay for the high life we had and the personal and national debt we put oursevles in. We have a goverment with no clue [xx(] Think about the last time Georgy pulled into a self serv station to fill er up and buy a gallon of milk. [:0]  They play Santa Claus to the world with our money and want to police the world as well.  Our corporate CEO's raid the tills for millions, while slashing the work force and moving to shell companies off shore, just for the bottom line to the shareholders. [xx(] I could go on, but I think I am getting political 

SO I chose to go into work today (6 days a week) to make extra money so I can stock up on ammo and rations for when the day comes. 
Oh and my tip for stretching your money.......I just picked up the Namiki and Pilot lines, hell not everybody is going to be able to afford a Penchetta, I will need a 2.00 Pilot to sell them  Oh and look for the Pilot G2 gel refills coming to addvertising section soon [8D] (I'm bad) [}]  

Lou, I thought that's why they invented the "clapper" for old farts likes us


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## mdburn_em (Mar 15, 2008)

I purchase premium gas.  I get between 3 and 4 miles per gallon more on Premium versus Regular.  If I put 10 gallons in, cost is approximately an extra $2 (.20 x 10) per fill-up.  If I go 40 miles further (which I do), that's an extra 1.66 gallons I've saved.  1.66 x $3.45 = $5.72.  Subtract the $2 I paid for the premium versus regular gas and I save $3.72 a tank.  

I fill up about 6-7 times per month due to the fact I have to drive 50 miles (1 way) to attend school.  (I don't go every day)

Added benefit is, I can hear and feel the difference in my engine.

I think we'll see + $5/gal this summer, so every little bit helps.  (US)

It took a couple of tanks to finally see the maximum mpg.


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## MichaelS (Mar 15, 2008)

Had a house fire in May of 2006, lost everything. Replaced all appliances with energy star and high efficiency lighting. Also lots of insulation, outside walls are R35 with stone face, attic has 16" of insulation. Roof has solar collectors. Water heater is on demand. Furnace is water sourced heat pump, with coal and wood burning furnace next to it. Meets all emission standards. Have a wood lot out back so wood is cost of my labor and gas. Turn the stat down to 69 degrees and wear sweaters in house. Cut my el. bill by half. Gas and diesel our delivered in 1,000 gal. bulk shipments each. Have a contract with supplier for $2.25 per gal for gas and $2.75 for desel. That price changes in September 08, at the end of the first contract year but supplier can only raise price by 1/3 becouse I have a 5 year contract. I can order up to 2,000 gal. of each per quarter under contract so two more 1,000 gal tanks are on order to be installed in about 10 days. Food, buy in bulk BJ's discount club. Raise my own veg. in summer and can or freeze. Meat have chickens and guinea fowl on free range, raise cattle now have 25 head also on free range and enough hay in barn that I cut and bale from south field for year. If I didn't do these things I could not afford to turn. Work for HUD so have access to info on latest housing energy fixes.


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## Dario (Mar 15, 2008)

> _Originally posted by PenWorks_
> 
> I chose to make more money, so I can spend more. Maybe I am a work o holic. I believe in work hard, play hard.



Anthony,

A lot of people think like you and work as hard as you but to some, opportunities are elusive and hard as they try, making ends meet is sometimes difficult.

I know we make our own destiny and I don't always agree with luck but...


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## Ron in Drums PA (Mar 15, 2008)

> _Originally posted by PenWorks_
> 
> I chose to make more money, so I can spend more. Maybe I am a work o holic. I believe in work hard, play hard



Anthony

I'm in the same boat as you, but not everyone is as lucky. I know a family where the husband works seven days a week at two jobs and the wife works also. They live week to week, paycheck to paycheck. All they can afford at a time is a weeks worth of heating oil. If it happens to be extra cold that week they need to make a choice between more heating fuel or food for their kids. A tough choice that I'm thankful I don't have to make.

Have some compassion, just because they can't make ends meet doesn't mean they are not trying to make ends meet anyway they can.


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## PenWorks (Mar 15, 2008)

Ron & Dario,I count my blessings every morning and every night. I donate at least 50 pens a year for local charities and fund raisers not to mention my cash. That's why this discussion bothers me so much, when I see two parents both working and still are below the poverty level in this country and one paycheck from going bust. They aren't enough stretching tips in the world for this couple. [V] I think it is called the middle class of America now.


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## Dario (Mar 15, 2008)

I am with you Anthony.  How about this?

Survival tips today...so you can fight another day.


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## PenWorks (Mar 15, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Dario_
> 
> 
> Survival tips today...so you can fight another day.



Sounds good to me.  I hope the day does not come when I need my gas mask, rations and guns, but I got em and I'm ready 

Now as much as I would like to discuss this, I need to get my but in the shop and make some twist pens for Serge 

Oh, my last good tip is my new Pen Mobile gets 60+ miles to the gallon. You never know when gas rationing may start again.


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## Ron in Drums PA (Mar 15, 2008)

Thanks Anthony


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## Nolan (Mar 15, 2008)

> _Originally posted by PenWorks_
> 
> I think it is called the middle class of America now.



I heard that word once but think it was from some time back, I must be too young to remimber it. Find was to make more money!! Think its bad watch some foreign news threads. Like I said in an earlier post their is always a bright side to every situation.


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## Tanner (Mar 15, 2008)

Iâ€™m one that does not want to blame the government or any political party for any situation I find myself in.  It seems many out there think the government owes them a living.  One of my old bosses used a powerful phrase made up of a bunch of two letter words â€œIf it is to be, it is up to me.â€   Youâ€™re hurting yourself if you think the government owes you something.  The whole whining over the mortgage scandal chaps my backside.  Why should my tax dollars pay for someone getting into a mortgage they shouldnâ€™t have?  
Like Anthony, LOML and I grew up poor, very poor.  My dad worked his butt off.  I watched and learned.  He retired from Western Electric (ATT &T) after 32 years there.  He was 50 then. Yes, he started with them right out of high school.  He then went to Nortel.  He retired from them after 15 years.  Two pensions, not bad.  My dad worked on my unclesâ€™ farm for his vacation for many years.  My uncle gave him Â½ beef instead of pay.   With 5 kids, we needed that meat.
I worked on that farm for 7 summers and 1 whole year.  Most of the time we put in more than 80 hours per week.  Never knew what my friends did during the summer.  The farm was two hours away from my home town.  When I joined the work force, 99% of the guys would say, â€œwell I put my 8 hours inâ€ or â€œI have 40 hours in for the week, Iâ€™m done.â€  I never really understood an 8 hour day.  LOML and I do not have college degrees.  However we have risen nicely in our jobs.  She is now a bank manager and I was a Vice President for a fortune 500 pest control company.  I now own my own Pest Control company.  I started out crawling through the bowels of grain elevators in North Dakota, killing rats and mice.  We did it through hard work.  Nobody handed us anything, especially the government.
Unless they were born with a silver spoon in their mouth, everybody has gone through tough times in their life.  Money saving tips are great and they do help.  The best thing you can do for yourself is improve your worth to your employer.  Go the extra mile, put in the extra hour, learn other responsibilities than what youâ€™re being paid for.  Believe me, you wonâ€™t be the one they lay off.  If you are, take what youâ€™ve learned and apply it at another job.  Just my 2 cents.  Nobody is going to read this anyway, itâ€™s too long.  If you did thanks for listening.


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## Dario (Mar 15, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Tanner_
> 
> Iâ€™m one that does not want to blame the government or any political party for any situation I find myself in.



I have to respectfully disagree...the government can influence our lives tremendously IMHO.



> _Originally posted by Tanner_
> 
> Nobody handed us anything, especially the government.
> 
> Unless they were born with a silver spoon in their mouth, everybody has gone through tough times in their life.  Money saving tips are great and they do help.  The best thing you can do for yourself is improve your worth to your employer.  Go the extra mile, put in the extra hour, learn other responsibilities than what youâ€™re being paid for.  Believe me, you wonâ€™t be the one they lay off.  If you are, take what youâ€™ve learned and apply it at another job.  Just my 2 cents.  Nobody is going to read this anyway, itâ€™s too long.  If you did thanks for listening.



I too never took any hand out from the government though I pay all my SSS, tax, etc.

You are mistaken (again ) I read all of it LOL.

Good words and tips.  Sometimes being indispensable is not enough (look at the closed companies).  Even if you are good, if no on is hiring...it is tough to find a job.  It sure gives you an edge though.

Love to hear/read success stories.  Thanks for sharing.


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## Ron in Drums PA (Mar 15, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Tanner_
> 
> 1 Iâ€™m one that does not want to blame the government or 2 any political party for any situation I find myself in.  It seems many out there think the government owes them a living.  3 One of my old bosses used a powerful phrase made up of a bunch of two letter words â€œIf it is to be, it is up to me.â€   Youâ€™re hurting yourself if you think the government owes you something.  4 The whole whining over the mortgage scandal chaps my backside.  5 Why should my tax dollars pay for someone getting into a mortgage they shouldnâ€™t have?




If we are talking about our current economic situation then,
1. Politicians have a lot of blame on thier shoulders
2. Both parties are equally to blame
3. Smart man
4. Agreed
5. While this bothers me too, I think it our economy would be worse if  all these people defaulted on their loans. I believe the greedy mortgage companies should foot a good portion of the problems by 1) reducing the interest rete to 2% above prime and locking it there for 5 years while no more than a 2% increase after that while still not going above 2% prime. Also they should forgive a large portion of the interest that they over charged.

I'll tell you what really bothers me, the people who bought investment properties are going to benefit from this bail out too.


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## oldtoolsniper (Mar 15, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Tanner_
> 
> I started out crawling through the bowels of grain elevators in North Dakota, killing rats and mice.


How can you harm those furry little fellers? They just to eat like you and me! [:0]
I do Animal Damage Control work here in Iowa. I focus on the non domestic critters that the pest control companies donâ€™t want to deal with. Tomorrow (Sunday morning) I will be waist deep in a slush filled drainage ditch doing battle with beavers at a new job. If a customer calls me at 0300 (3am) I go do the job. I charge the same as if it were a normal workday, whatever that is. I am a retired Marine and have become a professional trapper. I sell the furs that the market will buy.  I heat with wood. The city was paying to dispose of the trees they cut. Now they dump the big logs in my back yard, I cut, split, and stack the wood right in my yard. The city saves $90.00 a ton by me taking the logs. I donâ€™t have to deal with brush and clean up plus I donâ€™t have to find the trees.  To keep the neighbors happy I give them all the campfire wood they want during the summer and they donâ€™t complain about my chainsaws and log splitter. I donâ€™t have a heat bill in the winter. All of this requires laborâ€¦. 
*It's funny how many Americans think manual labor is the President of Mexico.*


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## thetalbott4 (Mar 15, 2008)

I have to agree with Tim, and applaude his statements. My story is incredibly similar in that I grew up rural and dirt poor. I have no college education (couldnt afford it) and have done ok for my family. I am not a VP of a fortune 500 company, just a construction guy. I have a great home, cars, hobbies, ect, and even a little left over at the end of the month. The only financial problems I've ever had were a direct result of my own stupidity. In my 42 years I have simply worked smart, worked hard, and took responsibility for my situation. 

Things change in economies and governments and if I let them impact my life, it's my fault for not seeing it coming or adapting to different methods. It would be like saying that because Bill at work did "X", I didnt get a raise. No, I didnt get a raise because I put myself in a position to let Bills actions affect me. In my area we are experiencing a construction down turn (as a result of bad politics) but we have seen this coming for a while and made changes in marketing and methods. While most companies are panicking, I just got another nice bonus because we are doing well. I blame myself for the bad situations I get in because that gives me the power to get myself out and avoid them in the future.


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## Paul in OKC (Mar 15, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Tanner_
> 
> Iâ€™m one that does not want to blame the government or any political party for any situation I find myself in.  It seems many out there think the government owes them a living.  One of my old bosses used a powerful phrase made up of a bunch of two letter words â€œIf it is to be, it is up to me.â€   Youâ€™re hurting yourself if you think the government owes you something.  The whole whining over the mortgage scandal chaps my backside.  Why should my tax dollars pay for someone getting into a mortgage they shouldnâ€™t have?
> Like Anthony, LOML and I grew up poor, very poor.  My dad worked his butt off.  I watched and learned.  He retired from Western Electric (ATT &T) after 32 years there.  He was 50 then. Yes, he started with them right out of high school.  He then went to Nortel.  He retired from them after 15 years.  Two pensions, not bad.  My dad worked on my unclesâ€™ farm for his vacation for many years.  My uncle gave him Â½ beef instead of pay.   With 5 kids, we needed that meat.
> ...



Well said. Hard work has paid off for me as well. 20 years ago I survived two rounds of lay offs at a place where I had less than a year in. I have always thought that I would rather work myself out of a job, than just do meet minimum requirements. I have no college, either, and do well where I am at. Had a guy tell me the other day he heard of a great job, his friend said he could start out making $21 an hour, driving a fork lift. It is a goverment job, imagine that. I see more people with those kind of jobs have a worse attitude than a guy that works his tail off for much less.


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## bitshird (Mar 15, 2008)

> _Originally posted by n4631x_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Try this one, I had to put new brake cylinders on my 70 VW, I ordered the parts from Autozone, the parts were in a bag that was packaged in Mexico, but the parts were made in CHINA, I was a bit miffed when my VW parts started coming from Brazil (I've owned this beetle for close to 20 years) Now China is opening a truck manufacturing plant in Tijuana. you really have to love NAFTA I'm helping train Machinists, Why? none of them speak Chinese, they can barely speak English, but they are all High School graduates, where are these people going to find work?


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## Malainse (Mar 15, 2008)

Not a sob story or pity me, just the facts...
We have learned to stretch the dollar.  I was in a cycle crash and broke everything from my neck to my legs. Wife quit he job to take care of me. I'm now on disability.She just started working again at about 1/2 the rate as before but, the extra is nice... Plus it is only 2 miles from our home.

To make things work we plan our monthly spending down to the dollar...Money goes into an envelope for each bill, each month.  Extra envelope is for food,gas etc. 
--Have two older vehicles, min. insurance coverage... 
--no cell
--no cable
--turn the heat down (sweat shirts), no air in the summer..
--If item is not used a lot and can be, it is unplugged.
--Shop at goodwill/dollar store/Craigs list. Garage sales..My drill press, $12.00, Band saw $18.00
--Roman noodles can be doctored up and are very good.
--Buy day old bread/marked down foods/meats/freeze them...
--Use coupons, they add up...
--Local grocery store has coupons for .20 cents off a gal.of gas up to 40 gal.  Fill the vehicles up,extra into gas can.
--Plant a garden, can /freeze items to use the rest of the year.
--Make my own dog food..
--Make my own root-beer (I love it) $6 for 5 gallons...
--Buy whole turkey/chicken and cook/freeze...
--Catch our own fish/freeze.  
--Drive, only as needed and then plan the trip for other stops.
--Purchase on-line when have free shipping/discounted.  Cheaper then running around and spending gas money.
--I enter contests on-line--Is entertainment and have won some good stuff..... If not needed sell it...I just won a $100 Wendy's gift card so we eat out now and then,only at Wendy's...
--Do on line surveys for $$.  Not much $ this month but I was able to get 1 entry into Mega raffle.
--Pen stuff,my low stress hobby, I do not buy unless I sell something.  Then I wait until item is on sale or can get quantity discount=free shipping.  Special order is different as customer will pay. Pick up free wood.

Most of all, keep your chin up and be thankful for what you do have..... Smile now and then, it makes a big difference..
[8D]


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## LEAP (Mar 15, 2008)

I have to say I agree with a lot that has been said in the last few posts. What I have a problem with is senior execs in companies making multi millions while they are running the business into the ground. If the compensation was based on performance of the company not the price of the stock then we might see a lot less of the rank and file loosing their life savings and retirements while some CEO gets a multimillion dollar going away present when they are fired. What I blame the government for is not enforcing the laws that are on the books to protect the workers and lack of oversight that allows the Enrons and Mortgage disasters to occur in the first place. I don't see it as attributable to any party or administration its a systemic breakdown that takes a huge crisis to get the attention of those who should have been watching all along. When a twenty something high school dropout can get a quarter million dollar mortgage with no money down and a variable rate that starts at far less than prime you would have to be blind not to see it's a recipe for disaster. I use this example because I saw it happen to a young man in my town. The realtor and mortgage broker persuaded him that he could afford this because he would be making more money when the rate increased. In my mind that is criminal and those involved should loose their licensing if not pay fines commensurate to the damage they have done. Ok I'll get down off my soap box  before I really go off on a rant.


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## Tanner (Mar 15, 2008)

Wow, Mitch, it sounds like youâ€™ve done a good job in cutting the fat out.  Sounds like you could start a web site on ways to be be thrifty.  Romain Noodles are still one of my favorites.  I just turned 50 the other day and my wife always makes my favorite meal for that, Macaroni and Cheese, with cheese weinies if she really wants treat me.  Itâ€™s what my brothers and sisters and I grew up on.  When LOML and I were first married it was pretty tough.  To help on our rent we looked for an apartment mangers job.  Got one at a 48 apartment complex.  Lived there for free because I said I would do the lawn, shovel the sidewalk, shampoo carpets and clean and paint apartments when someone moves out.  I was also in the National Guard at the time making a little extra money.  We also sold Amway, mostly to ourselves for the apartment building cleaning and light bulbs and stuff.  We also did the Mystery Shopper thing for awhile. Didnâ€™t have money for Pampers (yes we had Pampers that far back), so we bought cloth diapers.  When we didâ€™nt have the money for the laundry machine we washed the diapers in the tub and dried them with a hair dryer if my son needed a clean one quick.  At nights I worked at an arcade in Fargo til midnight.  From midnight til 3:00am I did the janitors job.  I use to take a yard stick and scrape under the machines looking for quarters.  Back then you could buy Macaroni and Cheese .25 per box.  You cans see how important those quarters were.  Thereâ€™s always a way to get by.
Anyway I still shop at the dollar store, Costco etc.  and wait for things to go on sale.  I just bought all the guys that work for me a Costco card.  I know it helps.  They have cheaper gas there too.


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## thewishman (Mar 15, 2008)

Here is an idea: Lets all get $20 from Rudy Vey! 

 Rudy
Central New Jersey
'If you lend someone $20 and never see that person again, it was probably worth it.'

(Ducking and running for cover)
Chris


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## RMB (Mar 15, 2008)

Here's my favorite money saving tip:

Brew your own beer! 

It's a fun hobby, and once the initial setup is purchased (or made) it comes to about 60cents/bottle, as opposed to easily over $1 for good microbrew. 

Now with the building slump seems to be hitting us cabinetmakers (I'm doing 20-30hrs/wk, but still doing fine cuz I live cheaply and I get paid pretty well for my age), it's actually getting to be kind of scary. My boss say's he's never been this consistently slow. I've pondered trying to find another part-time job, but I am a skilled craftsman, and I'd hate to put myself in a job where thats not appreciated. In two and a half years since I started working I've managed to more than double my starting wages and even be placed in charge of my own shop and other employees.  But sometimes I did work 18 hr days, not often, but I was the one the company knew they could count on when something needed to be done NOW. I left that job when I felt I had reached the ceiling there. I nudged two other employees out of my current job by learning to do everything they could and I am now the sole employee, even my boss (a cabinetmaker of 30+years) doesn't work in the shop anymore because I do everything. I try to learn as much as I can about my job, and related areas, to make myself increasingly valuable, but sometimes there is a point when your company doesn't need or want to pay an overly qualified person, so its time to go elsewhere. I still fear that one day I'll be replaced by robots capable of building custom cabinets and those that can manufacture and program them, but hey, this is turning into a rambling rant, sorry. Thanks for reading it anyways.

The main thing I'm trying to say is: Hard work pays off, and for the time being at least, I'm far better off than any of my classmates who took the college route. Not to knock college, but it's not for everybody.

Oh, and hey Rudy, can I borrow $20?[]


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## darbytee (Mar 16, 2008)

This is something that my wife and I addressed a couple of months ago. While we're blessed to have a solid, (relatively) stable income the money just seemed to float away by the end of the month. We looked at our overall debts and realized that we owed on a mortgage, two cars, and a student load we'd been paying on for 10 years. Meanwhile I had money in CDs earning 4% interest while I was paying 5.9% on my car. It didn't make sense. 

We started the Dave Ramsey program (www.daveramsey.com) and got on a written budget, complete with cash envelopes at the beginning of each month. It's amazing how much more control you feel like you have when every dollar has a purpose attached to it and you have it all on paper. It was amazing to really look back and see how much money we had been wasting without even thinking about it. For example, I'm saving over $100 a month just by taking my lunch to work with me instead of eating out every day. Sorry if this   came across as a Dave Ramsey commercial, but this has really been a life changing experience for us.

BTW, as of last week I have a paid off car for the first time in my adult life. Woo hoo!!


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## Paul in OKC (Mar 16, 2008)

Dave Ramsey's stuff is good sense. My wife and I went through and even taught the class a couple of times and watched it do good things for people. We are not as disciplined in it as we should be. My wife thinks we have cut back well, I still see a lot of waste, so....


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## btboone (Mar 16, 2008)

In college, I lived off of spaghetti, cereal, and Ramen.  For me, after years of struggle, the key to financial independence was not saving more, but earning more.  There's a definite limit to how much you can save.  I was earning something like $4000 a year and putting myself through school.  I've done the saving route to the extreme.  Along the way, I've found that if you find a very niche market, and you're the best at what you do or have the best product in that niche, you can call your own shots on the pricing and marketing of it. The people will seek out your stuff. The Internet (which I never had time for or money for when I was in saving mode) has become my sole income producer.  If you have a website and the ability to sell things on the Internet, you will always have the ability to have a supplimental income.  There's no need to jump ship from a good job until you get established.  

My first foray involved trying to get cash to pay off big business debt in order to be able buy a house.  When I had my bike parts business, I had received a big order of cranks (something like 50 pair) from Austria where money never came through.  I was left holding the bag for all the labor and materials at a time when business was slow anyway, and it was the final straw that sent me over the edge.  I had to shut down the business and all that I had worked for.  I moved and worked for another company.  While paying every cent to pay off business credit card debt, I later scraped the $20 a month for the Internet and wrote a free website where I tried to sell some of the bike parts inventory I had laying around.  As word got out, I was amazed to sell every bit of the stuff I had!  It allowed me to get out of debt and improve my credit enough to get 100% financing for that house.  I tried to think of what else I could sell on the Internet when I remembered how well my wedding rings used to do.  To make a long story short, it worked well enough to pay off the house in 24 months and not have to worry about finances again.

The moral of the story is this; saving will only do so much and will put you into a mindset of lack and loss and scraping by and how bad things are and things like that.  Putting the infrastructure to sell things on the Internet opens up possibilities where all you can think of is new opportunities and growth and new products and new markets and thinking what if.  There's little downside to trying.  You don't need stuff in stock; you can make to order.  Websites can be free or of little cost.  The info on how to make a website is on the Internet.  I never knew HTML, but I learned.  If you really want to turn things around, this is the way that I've found that really works.  The Internet's a big place.  If you have a product that's unique enough, someone will want it and will pay you well for it.


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## dfurlano (Mar 16, 2008)

Bruce speaks the truth. Saving is necessary but it will never solve the problem of not having enough money.


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## Ron in Drums PA (Mar 16, 2008)

Good Post Bruce


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