# CA finish - how long to hold paper towel



## leeko (Mar 22, 2012)

Hi all,

I'm having difficulty with applying a medium CA glue finish, hoping someone can answer a few questions for me:

- I'm using blue scott towels as an applicator, but keep having problems with the glue "grabbing" fibres from the paper and pulling them into the finish, clouding it and roughening the surface. Not sure why it does this, as the instructions I've read suggest I should keep the towel moving over the glue until it sets. Am I pressing too hard, too light, or should I apply the glue then take the towel off before it sets? 

- Once when that happened, I kept the towel on and pressed harder, and it actually buffed the coat to a high gloss (removing the fibres that had been embedded). But, on the other half of the barrel (and on subsequent tries) it has just made it worse... 

- For subsequent coats of CA, should I use the same (hard) spot on the paper towel, or move to a new, fresh area of the towel? 

- I also tried using polyester batting as advised by Russ Fairfield, but the fibres from that made an even worse mess... I'm guessing I should have used sheets of batting instead of the loose stuff? 

Thanks in advance,

Lee


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## Davej_07 (Mar 22, 2012)

I use the paper to smooth the coat, maybe 2 or three seconds. You want the paper off the piece when it starts curing, otherwise you have problems.  YouTube has videos explaining the specifics.

Dave


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## jd99 (Mar 22, 2012)

What Dave Says above a couple seconds, also do not try and use the Lowes barnd of blue paper towles they have something in them that acts as an accelerator, and the they will start smoking almost a soon as you apply the CA.

What works for me is I use the Scott towles, and I cut them in half, then in half again.

Then I fold the towel so I have a long skinny strip, I put the CA on the very end of the strip apply a coat, move the strip up a little more CA apply a coat, move strip up a little more CA apply a coat. I usally get three to four coats per strip, then I use my accelerator. then repeat the process until I get as many coats on as i think I need.


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## bruce119 (Mar 22, 2012)

I will tell my way. I stopped using paper towels long ago I think they are dangerous and give pore results as you found.

I use nitrile plastic gloves from Harbor Freight. Cut off a finger of the glove tape slip it over you index finger tape it at the base of your finger to hold in place (a plastic bag from your pen parts kit will work also) Now with the lathe running at a slow speed apply a small bead across your blank using your finger to spread it. The plastic will not accelerate the CA like paper towel so you will have some time before it sets 10 seconds or so. I like thick CA once you get it kind of smooth before it sets you want to stop before it grabs you glove. Then give it a quick spray of accelerator. Wait 15-20 seconds till the CA set and repeat. I put on 6-8 coats don't worry about keeping it real smooth you will get some ridges. Then start wet sanding. I start with 400 to knock the ridges off and then go through micro mesh to about 8,000 and then finish up with a plastic polish like Novus 2. It takes some practice to get a feel for it especially the first sanding not to go too deep and take the CA off.

Good Luck


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## Timbo (Mar 22, 2012)

Hi Lee - I reread your post several times.  It almost sounds like you're using the paper towel technique that one would use if they were using the BLO/CA finishing process.  The BLO (boiled linseed oil) would keep the CA from sticking to the paper towel while it sets.  If you're not using BLO, you have to move the paper towel away before the glue sets.  

I don't think you need to change much.  Use light pressure, and slow speed.  Dribble CA on top of blank, while holding paper towel on the bottom.  Move from left to right spreading the CA as you go.  Maybe back the paper towel to the left one time if you see a missed spot or a ridge of CA.  When I use this technique, the paper towel is in contact with the blank for no more than 3-4 seconds front start to finish.  Use a fresh piece of paper towel for each coat.  Good luck.


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## leeko (Mar 22, 2012)

Thanks everyone for the tips - got a lit if experimenting to do!


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## InvisibleMan (Mar 22, 2012)

I use paper towel.  Be very quick and it should not be a problem.  I put a few drops on thick strip folded over twice and run it quickly from one end to the other and back again.  Contact with the blank is probably less than a second.  I start with 5 applications of thin CA, then I put on about 10 applications of medium CA minimum - no low or flat spots if you put on enough coats, and no need to hold the towel on for several seconds to smooth.  I hit the medium with a quick shot of accelerator between applications.  I don't bother accelerating thin.

Then I take 400 or 600 sandpaper to knock the ripples down - the blank will be uniform white when finished with this step.  I do this dry so I can see the white color - not sure if it is visible wet as I've never tried, but always assumed it wouldn't work.  May try next time.

Then on to the wet MM.  Works great.


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## MartinPens (Mar 22, 2012)

Timbo said:
			
		

> Hi Lee - I reread your post several times.  It almost sounds like you're using the paper towel technique that one would use if they were using the BLO/CA finishing process.  The BLO (boiled linseed oil) would keep the CA from sticking to the paper towel while it sets.  If you're not using BLO, you have to move the paper towel away before the glue sets.
> 
> I don't think you need to change much.  Use light pressure, and slow speed.  Dribble CA on top of blank, while holding paper towel on the bottom.  Move from left to right spreading the CA as you go.  Maybe back the paper towel to the left one time if you see a missed spot or a ridge of CA.  When I use this technique, the paper towel is in contact with the blank for no more than 3-4 seconds front start to finish.  Use a fresh piece of paper towel for each coat.  Good luck.



I was going to make nearly the same comments.
I would also say - move away from the blue paper towels.
A steady flow of CA and continuous movement. I start with a couple coats of thin CA - moving one direction while applying and doing two quick swipes once I reach the end while applying.  It kinda looks like.....     smoooooth appply  .... swipe swipe!  that's it. Don't touch it.     If you are applying too much CA in the initial application it will be spinning off the pen - that's too much IMO.  I also turn the speed down to low. I want it to spin, but not so fast that it's flinging off what I put on it.

Keep working at it.   I would advise keeping the paper towel layered.  I actually put three fingers in the components bags (they are thick) and place the paper towel in thick layers on top of that.  The first time you weld your fingers to the paper towel or to plastic, I'm sure you'll work out a solution pretty fast!  : )

Keep at it.  Check YouTube for a visual of various methods. They are as different and plentiful as the colors in a crayon box.

Martin

Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner


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## yorkie (Mar 22, 2012)

Have you tried that new Quick Fast ca wood finish?  I used it on over 100 pens and it is slow setting for specifically this kind of application so solves the problem.


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## bradh (Mar 22, 2012)

Unless you are using BLO to lubricate the paper, you will need to remove the towel/cloth before the CA starts to set. If not the CA will stick your cloth and they it will become one with the blank.
   As others have stated, there are many options to apply CA and there are many factors which impact how they will work for you:
-thickness of CA used, presence of any CA accelarators in the cloth/towel/glove, and one of the biggest impacts can come from the humidity level in your shop --humidy will speed up the set time . 
    The shop humidity level will impact the speed of the set. An A/C cooled shop in central Texas in winter will be very different than a garage-shop in the great lakes basin during a hot-humid summer day. 
  This time of year is very difficult for CA finishes, the winter heating season is ending and the outside humidity is rising with the warmer air. I find spring and fall to be the most difficult times to apply CA because what works one day, may not work as well the next.
   I guess what I am trying to explain is that there are reasons why there are so many different methods to apply a CA finish. We can learn what works for our fellow pen turners, but we each need to find what works for us in our own shop. 
.... And it is possible to get a good CA finish without wearing yellow socks.


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## leehljp (Mar 22, 2012)

Change brands of paper towel. Most PT, but not all, are natural catalyst to CA curing. The PT that I used in Japan and back here when I was here before that, never had fibers catch in the finish. The CA would start to catalyze on the PT before it would on the spinning blank, but enough CA would make it onto the blank. The PT would harden in a round mold like and help bring the CA on the blank to a fair shine.

There IS a difference in PT brands and types.

That said, MOST of the time, I use latex or rubber or nitrile gloves and spread it with those on my hand. I have used the little parts bags that nibs or other small parts come in with pen kits. These little bags do not stick and apply it much smoother than PT does, IMO. I have had the rubber / latex gloves "catch" and become all wrapped up around the spinning blank, but that is a matter of individual experience, feel and touch that must be learned.

That brings me to this: Over the years, this same subject has come up time and again. Every individual is different in the PT of choice, pressure used, and a whole gamut of other things. Muscular people will say that they are using light touches to apply while in fact they will be using more force that a thin framed person who describes their action as using a heavy touch.

For this reason, in the end - each person needs to experiment as to what technique, pressure and supplies and methods work best for themselves. Most everyone gives good advice, but no one method or description works for everyone. Keep trying and use different techniques and material. It will come to you!


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## leeko (Mar 24, 2012)

*Success!*

Success!

I took all the advice, and went back to trying the CA finish again. It worked! 

I used the polyester batting as advised by Russ Fairfield; I ended up with a super-rough texture, probably because I was using the same spot on the batting multiple times (hardened with previous CA coats). But, I was able to sand down the high spots, starting with 400 grit, then 600, then micromesh. 

I think the key for me was wet-sanding with the micromesh. Previously I've dry sanded with it, and the results weren't fantastic. Wet-sanding, though - it's a whole different story! Faster, easier, less messy, and the CA finish takes on that glassy look... 

Here's a couple of pens I turned with the new technique. Excited to keep improving on it!

Lee


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## bruce119 (Mar 24, 2012)

leeko said:


> Success!
> 
> 
> I think the key for me was *wet-sanding* with the micromesh. Previously I've dry sanded with it, and the results weren't fantastic. Wet-sanding, though - it's a whole different story! Faster, easier, less messy, and the CA finish takes on that glassy look...
> ...


 
You will find wet sanding wet-sanding on CA or any acrylic type surface is the way to go. AND you micro-mesh will last 100 times longer:biggrin:
 
.


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## bubbamorse (Apr 8, 2012)

leehljp said:


> Change brands of paper towel. Most PT, but not all, are natural catalyst to CA curing. The PT that I used in Japan and back here when I was here before that, never had fibers catch in the finish. The CA would start to catalyze on the PT before it would on the spinning blank, but enough CA would make it onto the blank. The PT would harden in a round mold like and help bring the CA on the blank to a fair shine.
> 
> There IS a difference in PT brands and types.
> 
> ...



I've read through this thread with interest as i've never used CA to finish a pen, I do question about getting the CA on the bushings as you're polishing using this technique. I can't imagine not getting any across the pen on the bushings so...what gives? Do the bushings just separarte from the turned pen?


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## sumterdad (Apr 8, 2012)

You can also use the craft foam from the hobby store. You don't need as much glue and if you do it right you won't need much sanding


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## bruce119 (Apr 8, 2012)

bubbamorse said:


> I've read through this thread with interest as i've never used CA to finish a pen, I do question about getting the CA on the bushings as you're polishing using this technique. I can't imagine not getting any across the pen on the bushings so...what gives? Do the bushings just separarte from the turned pen?


 
Below is copied from this *thread*

This is the method I use. BUT I make my own bushings very simple. Start with a piece say 1" long of plastic Delrin preferably 3/4 round. Drill a 1/4" or "D" hole though it. Put it on you mandrel turn it to a cone like a center. Make 2 of them now you got finishing bushings that will fit any size pen tube. And CA dose not stick well to delrin after doing your finish just take the point of your skew and very carefully score/cut close to your tube to break away or you could chip your finish. Then the extra CA will scrape off your bushing real easy with your skew.

This is the only photo I could find on hand that shows them. Should you get an idea. Taper the point rite down to your mandrel.

*I got a few of these 3/4" Delrin rods about 11.5" long if anyone is interested PM me.* 




​


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## leehljp (Apr 8, 2012)

bubbamorse said:


> I've read through this thread with interest as i've never used CA to finish a pen, I do question about getting the CA on the bushings as you're polishing using this technique. I can't imagine not getting any across the pen on the bushings so...what gives? Do the bushings just separarte from the turned pen?



Going back about 5 years ago, I had problems with CA "lifting" when separating the bushings from a Cocobolo blank. Cocobolo is an oily wood to begin with and usually has less adhesion because of the oil. There is another way around that adhesion problem but I didn't have the solution. On one beautiful blank I think I re-did the CA about 4 or 5 times and used the point of a skew to turn down the CA to the bushings, but still I had the CA to lift.

That drove me to TBC (Turning Between Centers). Use a live center on the tail stock, dead center on the head stock and put the bushing on the blank and pull the tail stock up and turn the blank round and close to size. (If a two part pen, turn only one at a time.) Next, take the bushings off and put the blank back between centers and sand down or finish turning to size and sand. (Use Calipers for measurements, - more accurate than sizing by bushings.) Once you are at the size wanted, start with the CA finish. NO bushing to get glued. 

This is no "new" method, it has been around for 6 or 7 years. Do a search for "TBC" and you may be surprised how long and how many people use it and how often it is mentioned.

TBC eliminates many of the problems that mandrels present - flexing, bent, tail stock too tight, too much pressure in sanding and others.

Before TBC, I took margarine tub lids and made "washers" from them and added them to the shoulders of the bushings to add a level of separation between the bushings and blank. I also added a minuscule bit of lubricant or vaseline to the bushings to prevent sticking. In the post above, Bruce shows the delrin finishing bushings that do not let CA stick. There are many ways to overcome the problem you mentioned. There are some great an ingenious people here!

CA as a pen finish - it has been the preferred finish since I have been on this forum - going back 7 years now. There are other finishes - ploys, lacquer, urushi (Japanese lacquer), liquid acrylic made from dissolving polyacrylic and acetone and others. There are several methods of applying these finishes too.


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## Robertsmeets (Apr 8, 2012)

For what it's worth, I use the Blue (Nitrile) gloves to apply the CA finish, i use a rag to wipe the excess off the glove in between applications to keep the glove as clean as possible.


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## bruce119 (Apr 9, 2012)

Robertsmeets said:


> For what it's worth, I use the Blue (Nitrile) gloves to apply the CA finish, i use a rag to wipe the excess off the glove in between applications to keep the glove as clean as possible.


 
That's exactly what I do. 

But to make your glove last even longer (I do production) cut off a finger (of the glove:beat-up and tape it your index finger that you use to smooth out the CA. I also wipe off the excess but on a blue shop towel after every application. This way your glove will go 5xs longer even more some times I will just pull what's left of a used glove over my finger for a quickie.

.


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## tool-man (Apr 9, 2012)

I recommend reading this thread about using craft foam as an applicator to apply the CA. http://www.penturners.org/forum/f28/if-you-arent-using-playfoam-ca-95465/

The foam seems to be virtually inert as far as the CA is concerned.  It certainly is not an accelerant like some paper towels.  You use less CA because the foam does not absorb it to any significant degree.

The foam comes in sheets and is available from craft stores and eBay.  I cut off a small strip of foam about 1/4" wide.  Dribble a few drops of CA on the turning blank and spread/even it with the very end of the foam in one pass.  You can reuse the same spot on the foam especially if you wipe it clean after each application.  Then turn the foam over and use the back side -- the CA does not sink through. Then snip the end off the foam strip and start all over.  One strip of foam could do a couple of pens.


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## Dragonlord85 (Apr 10, 2012)

I used to use paper towels to do my CA finish and found I was going through lots of CA. This weekend I took the advice of others on this forum and went to Hobby Lobby and bought a package of the popsicle shaped foam pads. It was quite a learning curve going from paper towels to foam as you really have to adjust how much CA to use. With the paper towels I was running a bead along the top of the blank with the paper towel below. Now wioth the foam it really does take just 1-2 drops of CA for each pass and the foam lasts for a long time. After some practice I was able to get a nice smooth finish that required only wet sanding with MM.


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