# Does it look like the tubes are showing through?



## qquake (Mar 30, 2016)

Or does it look like the gold is part of the blank? I can't tell for sure. Either way, it doesn't look good to me. This is a Rhino Paradise Blue blank. I reverse painted and colored the epoxy with acrylic paint.


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## keithbyrd (Mar 30, 2016)

I don't think it is the tubes - some patterning in the blank - 
I can PM my address and take that nasty thing off your hands!


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## magpens (Mar 30, 2016)

Yes it does.


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## BSea (Mar 31, 2016)

I agree with Magpens.  It looks like the brass is showing through.  How long did you let the paint dry.  Dry to the touch isn't cured.  I usually put my blanks in front of a small fan so the air passes through the hole.  I leave it overnight.  And I do it inside so it isn't too cold.


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## qquake (Mar 31, 2016)

I painted the blanks inside the house, and let them sit for 24 hours. I stood them upright on a piece of screen, so air could flow through them. This is the method I usually use, and I've never had this much of the tubes show. But it's possible I scraped the paint as I inserted the tubes, I suppose. Regardless, I'm going to have to turn the blanks off the tubes and start over. They look terrible.


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## keithbyrd (Mar 31, 2016)

Re looking at the pictures I have to agree.  But I don't see scratch marks from inserting the tubes.  Perhaps the glue distribution is uneven and  the brass is only showing where the glue adheres?  Paint is uneven?


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## Charlie_W (Mar 31, 2016)

The very last pic shows the end of the blanks with what looks to be your gold marker for finding the center. The tube plug shows gold also. I am thinking that the epoxy dissolved some of the marker and dragged it in as you were inserting the tube. You might try using an awl and putting scratch lines on the end of the blank instead of the marker or sanding this off before inserting the tubes.

I also use a small flat file and take the sharp edge off the ends of the tube before painting. The sharp edge is like a scraper when you slide/twist into the blank.

Instead of turning these off, try selling it. The gold is an embellishment unique to this pen!

Edit: From the design of the gold areas, I would say it looks consistent with twisting your tube as you inserted it to achieve good glue coverage.


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## nativewooder (Mar 31, 2016)

Best to just start over.


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## qquake (Mar 31, 2016)

I heard back from Dawn at Exotic Blanks, and there is no gold in that blank. So it definitely is the tubes. I have no idea what I did wrong.


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## qquake (Mar 31, 2016)

nativewooder said:


> Best to just start over.



That's what I'm going to do. I'll paint the tubes this time.


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## qquake (Mar 31, 2016)

I think I'm going to try this blank. Haven't decided what color paint though.


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## Don Rabchenuk (Apr 1, 2016)

My wife loves that blank. I painted it green.


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## raar25 (Apr 1, 2016)

Paint both the tube and blank and put a drop of paint into the glue to tint it to match.


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## Charlie_W (Apr 1, 2016)

Jim,  See my first post regarding the marker possibly being the culprit here. I enlarged your pic to show the gold on the tube plugs.
Looks like a possibility to me.


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## jttheclockman (Apr 1, 2016)

Charlie_W said:


> Jim,  See my first post regarding the marker possibly being the culprit here. I enlarged your pic to show the gold on the tube plugs.
> Looks like a possibility to me.



I think detective Charlie is right. Somehow that marker came into play. That color is what is showing. Weather it dissolved with the paint or the epoxy. Maybe it was transferred when drilling also. Loose the markers.


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## ladycop322 (Apr 1, 2016)

I think it looks like a 'ghost-flame' in gold.  I love it!


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## qquake (Apr 2, 2016)

Charlie_W said:


> Jim,  See my first post regarding the marker possibly being the culprit here. I enlarged your pic to show the gold on the tube plugs.
> Looks like a possibility to me.





jttheclockman said:


> I think detective Charlie is right. Somehow that marker came into play. That color is what is showing. Weather it dissolved with the paint or the epoxy. Maybe it was transferred when drilling also. Loose the markers.



That's an interesting theory, but I just can't see that being the culprit. In the first place, the paint from the marker is dry when I drill. Second, there's just not that much paint there from the marker. I looked closer at some of the drilling photos, and I don't see any evidence of gold paint inside the holes.


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## qquake (Apr 2, 2016)

ladycop322 said:


> I think it looks like a 'ghost-flame' in gold.  I love it!



Yeah, a couple of others here have said they like the look. But I don't like it, especially the big spot on the smaller blank.


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## qquake (Apr 2, 2016)

raar25 said:


> Paint both the tube and blank and put a drop of paint into the glue to tint it to match.



That's what I'm going to do. I should have painted the tubes blue, but thought that painting the holes and coloring the epoxy was enough. I recently turned a translucent red blank, and did paint the tube. Didn't have any problems with it.


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## log2lumber (Apr 2, 2016)

who cares, someone will love it if you don't tell them


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## qquake (Apr 2, 2016)

djrljr said:


> My wife loves that blank. I painted it green.



Do you have any photo(s) of the finished pen?


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## jttheclockman (Apr 2, 2016)

Well something other than a tube showing is happening there. That is not tube showing. Because then that material would have to be very translucent and it does not look that.  Maybe there was contamination when that blank was made or the blank was mislabeled. If you decide to lose the blank and destroy it see if you could get it off in chunks to look at the inside. May help solve the mystery.


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## dexter0606 (Apr 2, 2016)

I find that if you have to ask the question you already know you're not happy with it


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## Charlie_W (Apr 2, 2016)

jttheclockman said:


> Well something other than a tube showing is happening there. That is not tube showing. Because then that material would have to be very translucent and it does not look that.  Maybe there was contamination when that blank was made or the blank was mislabeled. If you decide to lose the blank and destroy it see if you could get it off in chunks to look at the inside. May help solve the mystery.



Yup!
Also, a control test would be good here. Take your gold marker, make some marks on the side of an acrylic blank, let it dry, and them mix some epoxy and apply over the marker.....then smear the epoxy around over the gold marker to see if that is dissolving it. 
I am sure others will be interested in your results. If I were to try the same test, I would need the same exact gold marker and the very same epoxy to see what happens.
Remember that a scuffed/sanded tube will have a sharp edge on the ends and become a scraper when inserting. 

Good luck


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## qquake (Apr 2, 2016)

I think I figured it out. I turned the old blanks off the tubes this morning, and you can clearly see that the gold marks are in a spiral pattern. I think what happened was the paint inside the blanks wasn't dry, and when I twisted the tubes as I inserted them, they scraped the paint off in the spiral pattern. I'm completely convinced that the gold marks were the tubes showing through. What I don't understand is, why the paint hadn't fully dried. I let the blanks sit for 24 hours, and that's always been long enough in the past. It was dry on the ends, but apparently not on the inside. I set them on a screen so the air can circulate inside them. I'll just have to be more careful and patient next time. And paint the tubes.


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## qquake (Apr 2, 2016)

I got the old blanks turned off and sanded the tubes. I painted the tubes and the insides of the blanks with purple spray paint. I'll also color the epoxy when I glue them up. Hopefully I won't have the same problem the second time.


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## qquake (Apr 2, 2016)

Charlie_W said:


> Yup!
> Also, a control test would be good here. Take your gold marker, make some marks on the side of an acrylic blank, let it dry, and them mix some epoxy and apply over the marker.....then smear the epoxy around over the gold marker to see if that is dissolving it.
> I am sure others will be interested in your results. If I were to try the same test, I would need the same exact gold marker and the very same epoxy to see what happens.
> Remember that a scuffed/sanded tube will have a sharp edge on the ends and become a scraper when inserting.
> ...



Unfortunately, my paint pen quit working, so I can't do any experimenting with it. But if the paint from the paint pen is dry, I don't see how the epoxy would dissolve it. The epoxy I use doesn't have any solvent in it. If it did, it would attack the acrylic blanks, too.


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## Brian G (Apr 2, 2016)

(I was working on this as you added your to most recent posts)


If epoxy was acting as a solvent for the marker, then I'd expect there would be smearing on the ends in the photos in post #14.

What are you using for tube plugs?  If I had to guess, it looks like playdough, and the debris on the ends of the plugs looks like dust from sanding the tubes.

When I study the pictures in post #5, I notice that you have a swirled pattern of paint, as if some of the paint is applied thicker in a swirling method.  The mark in the hole of the left barrel looks to be a missed spot that the paint didn't find.

Do you use q-tips and apply the paint by swirling the q-tip down the hole?  I drag the q-tip along the length.

How thoroughly do you stir the paint before applying it?  I don't think a few vigorous shakes of the bottle is enough.  I've noticed that, for some colors, the pigment settles to the bottom and needs to be physically stirred to mix completely.

I'm thinking that the paint layer isn't as evenly pigmented or as thick as it could be.

I stopped adding acrylic paint to the epoxy because it causes it to start curing faster and makes it rubbery.  Instead, I dip my epoxy-stirring toothpick into polyester resin dye before stirring the epoxy.  I can see the cross lines for drilling behind the overflow of tinted epoxy.  This tells me that the tinting wasn't dark enough.

An epoxy coloring option is available at PSI (PKCOLOR9).  I haven't used it.

Overall, I think you're experiencing an aggregate of small problems that show up as one big problem (marks from drilling means variable paint coverage, paint needs to be stirred more thoroughly, paint application flaws, insufficient tinting of epoxy).

You make great pens, though.  Maybe this is one time where something mucked your mojo for some reason.


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## jttheclockman (Apr 2, 2016)

Well I have to say then that blank was very very transparent. Next time when you drill a blank out and before you insert the tube, hold it up to a strong light source and you should be able to tell right away how translucent that material is and you then know you will have to approach with much more care. I am surprised though that it was that transparent from your photos. Good luck as you move on. and chalk it up to a learning experience. Maybe others have followed this and they too learned something.


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## 79spitfire (Apr 2, 2016)

I've made a pen with the Pomegranate Martini blank, it is very translucent when turned down.


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## qquake (Apr 2, 2016)

Brian G said:


> (I was working on this as you added your to most recent posts)
> 
> 
> If epoxy was acting as a solvent for the marker, then I'd expect there would be smearing on the ends in the photos in post #14.
> ...



Wow, you sure analyzed this more than I did! I think in this case that it was a combination of mistakes that ruined the blanks. Hopefully I'll learn from my mistakes. I should probably start painting all the tubes when I'm using a translucent blank.


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## qquake (Apr 2, 2016)

jttheclockman said:


> Well I have to say then that blank was very very transparent. Next time when you drill a blank out and before you insert the tube, hold it up to a strong light source and you should be able to tell right away how translucent that material is and you then know you will have to approach with much more care. I am surprised though that it was that transparent from your photos. Good luck as you move on. and chalk it up to a learning experience. Maybe others have followed this and they too learned something.



That's why I document my mistakes. Hoping that someone will read it, and not make the same mistakes.


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## jttheclockman (Apr 2, 2016)

Jim the key to me has always been the painting of the blank. That is the wall of defense. When you start adding paint to the tube you add another layer of material between your blank and your adhesive and the tube. Unless that paint is made for metal and does not chip off easily then my attack is at the blank. Sand the drill marks out of the blank and coat the inside with a good quality paint. If need be 2 coats. Then no need to color glue which you are weakening and also the above comment about the tube. This is only my opinion. Wearing both suspenders and a belt is overkill to me:biggrin:


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## 79spitfire (Apr 2, 2016)

> Wearing both suspenders and a belt is overkill to me:biggrin:



depends on the pants

Actually I have had great luck with coloring the epoxy, but if you have a bubble in it, the bubble shows more.


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## ttm7 (Apr 2, 2016)

you really dont need to use the brass tubes


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## jttheclockman (Apr 3, 2016)

ttm7 said:


> you really dont need to use the brass tubes





You are going to have to explain that one.


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## ttm7 (Apr 3, 2016)

drill to inside diameter of brass tube, turn between centers. make blank longer than needed then trim off the ends that the centers for turning fit in.
put pen tegether


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## qquake (Apr 3, 2016)

ttm7 said:


> drill to inside diameter of brass tube, turn between centers. make blank longer than needed then trim off the ends that the centers for turning fit in.
> put pen tegether



I don't see how blanks without tubes would be strong enough. You're looking at about .053" thick walls.


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## jttheclockman (Apr 3, 2016)

To get the components to fit exactly will be a challenge plus if using woods the expand and shrink with moisture. Gluing the components in would even be a challenge because what glue would you use??? You can get away with that if using metal blanks but would not recommend for acrylic or wood. But to each his own. If it works for you go for it. More than one way to play this game for sure. Good luck.


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## qquake (Apr 3, 2016)

Success! I don't know if it was painting the tubes, or the blank was less translucent, or a combination of the two. But no tubes showing through. Very nice looking blank, too.


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## ttm7 (Apr 3, 2016)

we were discussing plastic. if you wish take blank drill glue in 1/8 or 1/4 of brass tube on each end. these are just things that i have done; do they work yes no but we don't progress without experimentation


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