# Missing the old classifieds...



## patmurris (Jan 12, 2012)

The classifieds used to be messy, plentiful and fun to browse... but now, i check both sections every other day only to find one or maybe two new ads. No question it's clean now!


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## magpens (Jan 12, 2012)

I agree with Pat.  The ad sections are clean now, but pretty boring compared to the their liveliness before the changes went into effect.  There are a number of sellers, from whom I used to buy, who haven't been seen since the changes.  I liked it much better the way it was previously when it was actually exciting to log in.


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## Papo (Jan 12, 2012)

Yep


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## KnB Polymers (Jan 12, 2012)

Me too! When I logged on, that was the first place I went to ... I loved it! :banana:
Now, I log on, see the few new posts that have been made, and boom, I'm done. :yawn:


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## keandkafu (Jan 12, 2012)

And I thought it was just me. With the "new" better "government big brother watching out for us", it got real boring!  I used to spend a lot of time on the site, but now, people don't respond to questions, very few are willing to offer help, somebody is afraid someone else will steal their idea, and if you want to find out who sells x, it becomes a big deal, nobody offers much for sale anymore, etc.  

Sorry for the vent:redface:  but in my humble opinion, the changes were not for the better, I don't see a lot of the "old timers" online or posting anymore. 

Kevin


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## penmaker56 (Jan 13, 2012)

Yes, i miss them too. As a vendor, it was easy to introduce a new product, give advise, or tell someone that they had something that someone was looking for (and yes there was an occasional he said/she said fight, thread highjacking, or mine is better than yours thing). Now if I do it, it is either against the rules, or it will cost me $5 or $10 to post it in an ad. Even at $5, the ad cost more than what I make from the sales generated by the ad (the last and only ad I did generated 0 sales) my stuff is low profit, high volume, to the pen trade, but I offered it to the IAP members because I am/was one of you.  Now, I just shut up.


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## Knucklefish (Jan 13, 2012)

*My humble opinion....*

Guess I have to agree with all comments here. I have asked myself several times "wheres all the wood?". I used to check it every day (several times a day) now just a few times per week. No complaining, it is what it is.


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## Timebandit (Jan 13, 2012)

Its a shame that all of you are bored with this site without the barrage of classified ads in your face and money to be made. I came to this site for pens and pens alone and i am excited everytime i log in. Classifieds were just a bi-product for me, and i like this site no less without them. The first place i go to are New Posts and go through all of them like that. I didnt come here to buy things, i came here to learn. Hopefully you all can find the joy in Penturning again instead of product buying and money making and once again enjoy our amazing site.

Justin


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## Knucklefish (Jan 13, 2012)

*misunderstood perhaps*

Justin,

Please don't misundestand me, I totally agree with the excitment of the site. I too come here to better my abilities and learn new things. I am here (new posts, its my landing page when I come) many times a day and other forums on the site. I am only commenting about the classified section. I just don't visit THAT forum as often. I should have been clearer.
John



Timebandit said:


> Its a shame that all of you are bored with this site without the barrage of classified ads in your face and money to be made. I came to this site for pens and pens alone and i am excited everytime i log in. Classifieds were just a bi-product for me, and i like this site no less without them. The first place i go to are New Posts and go through all of them like that. I didnt come here to buy things, i came here to learn. Hopefully you all can find the joy in Penturning again instead of product buying and money making and once again enjoy our amazing site.
> 
> Justin


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## Timebandit (Jan 13, 2012)

Knucklefish said:


> Justin,
> 
> Please don't misundestand me, I totally agree with the excitment of the site. I too come here to better my abilities and learn new things. I am here (new posts, its my landing page when I come) many times a day and other forums on the site. I am only commenting about the classified section. I just don't visit THAT forum as often. I should have been clearer.
> John
> ...



John, I understand, your comment wasnt really what i was aiming at. There are a few others that specifically said they thought it was boring now and not exciting to log in, and only spend a few minutes on the site because of the lack of product availability. Dont want to argue with anyone, just think its a shame that is all about product availability. This site is about Penturning and Penturning alone and i believe thats why Jeff changed things. To get back to that Root of Penturning, not product buying and selling.

Justin


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## OKLAHOMAN (Jan 13, 2012)

As a pen maker and a vendor I totally disagree. I first came to the IAP to learn and I still come here to learn. I became a vendor only because I saw a need for a certain product but my focus here is still to further my knowledge and the advertising that used to go on here in threads that had nothing to do with advertising was a distraction to say the least. The 5 or 10 dollars that we now pay is indeed cheap and helps support this site so others can enjoy the learning experience. I understand that there are some that have stopped because of the cost but if they can't afford $10 to sell their blanks (most that are not advertising were selling blanks and listing them by the dozens) need to reevaluate the expense compared to the potential.


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## Gasser (Jan 13, 2012)

Agree with most posters, really miss the activity on the classifieds.  Still LOVE this site.


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## TellicoTurning (Jan 13, 2012)

OKLAHOMAN said:


> As a pen maker and a vendor I totally disagree. I first came to the IAP to learn and I still come here to learn. I became a vendor only because I saw a need for a certain product but my focus here is still to further my knowledge and the advertising that used to go on here in threads that had nothing to do with advertising was a distraction to say the least. The 5 or 10 dollars that we now pay is indeed cheap and helps support this site so others can enjoy the learning experience. I understand that there are some that have stopped because of the cost but if they can't afford $10 to sell their blanks (most that are not advertising were selling blanks and listing them by the dozens) need to reevaluate the expense compared to the potential.



I have to agree with Roy on this subject... I started coming to IAP a number of years back when I was researching some items on pen turning... I liked the camaraderie and the willingness to share ideas and information.  What we do ain't rocket science, but some of the ideas I've picked up here are very sophisticated and have been very helpful in my development and marketing.  I've cut back on the number of pens I make, focusing on other things, but this is still the first forum I look at when I sit down at the computer... I don't read all of the threads, rarely go to the classified's, but do on occasion drop in... my favorite threads are, Marketing, Other things we make, and the casual conversations.... all others are a bonus.

I understand the reasoning behind the changes... Jeff has done a fantastic job with this forum and I'm sure there's a personal expense to him to keep it going... a small premium to use a section that reaches a good number of potential customers is a small price to pay...


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## BSea (Jan 13, 2012)

1st of all, I have no problem with the $10/$5 per add.  But the volume of posts seems to have diminished as well as the adds.  Maybe it's my imagination, but there does seem to be less overall traffic on this site as a whole since the changes went into place.  I don't find it boring or I would stop logging on.  But it is somewhat less interesting.  Part of that is that is due to the fact that much of what I'm reading is no longer "NEW" _*to me*_.  But it is new for the newbies (that's kind of redundant:bulgy-eyes. But I also think that part of the lower overall volume is due to the changes in the add structure.  I originally joined this site just for the wood sales (for making gun grips), and gradually became interested because of all the incredible pens I was seeing every time I logged on. I didn't have a lathe, and didn't have any plans for one.  But because I came shopping for wood, my new hobby was born.  This is still my #1 forum, but for awhile, it was probably the only forum I visited everyday.  Now there are some others that have started gaining my attention.  

What I really enjoy is seeing new pen makers.  I remember how I felt turning my 1st pen.  It's nice to see that excitement from the newcomers that join.  

Oh, and HAPPY BIRTHDAY Justin!!:cake:


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## G1Pens (Jan 13, 2012)

I came here for pen making....the advice....the instruction....the sharing. That is why I will always come here. 

All I will say about the adds is ....I don't waste near as much money as I used to.


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## Haynie (Jan 13, 2012)

I do miss the variety of items in the old classifieds.  Being in the boonies I do not have access to special woods.  That being said the classifieds were not the reason I came.


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## chrisk (Jan 13, 2012)

Timebandit said:


> Knucklefish said:
> 
> 
> > Justin,
> ...



Sorry Justin but you're American right? You don't encounter the problems we do from here in Europe about products availability right? Please tell me: how could we talk about penturning without materials? On the IAP forum I could find woods, that is pen blanks, unavailable not only in Europe but also in the US, that is from commercial firms. Or do you lnow some firms, even in the US, selling cocobolo burl pen blanks, or chechen burl blanks? Even logwood burl pen blanks? Maybe you could send me an address of some firm or individual selling gmelia burl pen blanks?

As far as I'm concerned, last summer I was so excited after I purchased some stock of briar burl while on holidays in Greece. I could purchase for my own needs but I opted to share with my IAP colleagues. I sold some here. Do you know what? I sold the best pieces I had. Secondly, believe me, if I calculate my expenses in time, energy, work and fuel... I'm in deficit. But I was excited for finally I had the opportunity to offer back a service that since then I was only profiting: rare pen blanks at a decent price. Only consider this: a 7/8" square x 5" (up to 6 1/4") sanded briar pen blank @ $US8... If you consider this a "big money" scheme please tell me! Or do you think that a guy like Rick Herrell is making big money when he offers free shipping everywhere in the world for some of his products?

Now I don't want to criticize the new rules for their purpose was certainly not a worsening but instead an improvement of the forum. On an other hand, this classifieds issue isn't substracting anything to the rest of the forum which is a great place for learning, sharing... about penturning. But allow me please to point out a couple of facts.
Personnally, when I came back from Greece I felt punished for I had to pay (again) to offer, with my briar burl blanks, what I consider a service to the IAP community. 
Secondly, the reality of the buy and sell part of the forum is certainly not dying after the new rules were applied but at least heavily damaged especially due to the absence of the individual smaller vendors. 

Apologies for my English.
With respect.

Christos.


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## Timebandit (Jan 13, 2012)

chrisk said:


> Timebandit said:
> 
> 
> > Knucklefish said:
> ...



Christos,

Fist off, this was a conversation about a few thinking it was boring and not spending as much time on the forum as before due to the lack of merchandise. I understand needing an item and not being able to find it, but i will be honest, i wont spend one minute less on this forum because i cant find a product i want on it. Second, most of the blanks that you mentioned can be found with a few of the vendors here. They dont post them for sale in the classifieds because they have a business and that is where they Sell there product. They just Advertise it here. I thank you for being kind enough to think of others here when buying your briar burl and applaud you for it, but im sure you made enough off of those sales to warrant a $5-$10 ad. I remember when you were selling them and you sold a lot of it. And Rick still pays for ads here. Why? Because he feels they are worth it. Im sorry that you feel punished for having to pay a very minimal fee considering what it would cost you to sell those blanks anywhere else. And the small vendors can still make money here, they just have to consolidate there sales and make larger sales rather then many small ones. I am in his same boat and dont find it to be a hassle at all. Not only that, but the small vendors actually have an area where they can post for free and not have to pay for it, they just choose not to. This is there decision based on how they feel. It is a disappointment that they cant work this out, but i wont loose any sleep over it.

Thank you again for your service
Regards
Justin


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## RussFromNH (Jan 13, 2012)

I come to the site every day to see what is new, learn and see what others have posted, but I do miss the old classifieds.


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## maxwell_smart007 (Jan 13, 2012)

Please don't let this turn into a long thirty-pager...we've debated this ad nauseum already, haven't we?  

As a point of note, however, the classifieds used to be full of ads for blanks with five or six posted at a time, ten pages of 'PM sent' follow-ups, people without any connection to the IAP coming and posting blanks or stanloupes, or whatnot for sale without contributing anything to the other sections because there's no cost or restriction, and other crap like that, at no cost to anyone...what's happened since then is that people have consolidated their ads as a result of the rules and the cost - and those that posted only a few blanks from time to time have started to use the Deals section, albeit less frequently (people still haven't discovered that part of the marketplace yet, really).  

End result - Less perceived ads, still many opportunities to buy if you look for them, and the forum isn't inundated with classifieds and bumped ads - my job is much easier too - only a half full inbox from time to time, instead of a full one every day!  

I think that that's the reason why it feels to some like there are less posts - we've cut way back on the number of useless posts in a scant number of sections which were being abused.  I for one am glad to not have to see any more 'PM sent' posts bumping threads back into my sight for no reason.  Ads now feel like the ads they are, rather than sneaky ads in other sections, and commerce isn't the main focus.  

I like it, personally!


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## Smitty37 (Jan 13, 2012)

*Not So....*



Timebandit said:


> chrisk said:
> 
> 
> > Timebandit said:
> ...


Not within the rules Justin - I can't post anything in steals and deals if I also sell it (or similar items) as a vendor.  Since I sell pen kits I can't offer even kits that I don't stock there.  I presume that would apply to drill bits, bushings and anything similar also.

I even have to get prior permission to put an offer there of kits for"Pens for Troops"  at my cost.   

I no longer offer those things at the site at special prices because I normally didn't make enough to pay the $5 or $10.  People didn't believe me either when I told them I was doing those things as a service, not as a money maker.


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## Donovan's Corner (Jan 13, 2012)

Timebandit said:


> Its a shame that all of you are bored with this site without the barrage of classified ads in your face and money to be made. I came to this site for pens and pens alone and i am excited everytime i log in. Classifieds were just a bi-product for me, and i like this site no less without them. The first place i go to are New Posts and go through all of them like that. I didnt come here to buy things, i came here to learn. Hopefully you all can find the joy in Penturning again instead of product buying and money making and once again enjoy our amazing site.
> 
> Justin




I am wondering what I missed.  Sounds like the excitement of a flea market or street market.  Learning about penturning can be (should be) fun but I imagine some learning was lost just like you would learn which street vendors not to buy from.


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## maxwell_smart007 (Jan 13, 2012)

Smitty37 said:


> I even have to get prior permission to put an offer there of kits for"Pens for Troops"  at my cost.



Smitty, have you actually discussed this with Jeff, or are you just guessing?  I know you'd have to get permission, as you sell these items in other sections, but I don't think you're correct about the cost.


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## Timebandit (Jan 13, 2012)

Smitty37 said:


> Not within the rules Justin - I can't post anything in steals and deals if I also sell it (or similar items) as a vendor.  Since I sell pen kits I can't offer even kits that I don't stock there.  I presume that would apply to drill bits, bushings and anything similar also.
> 
> I even have to get prior permission to put an offer there of kits for"Pens for Troops"  at my cost.
> 
> I no longer offer those things at the site at special prices because I normally didn't make enough to pay the $5 or $10.  People didn't believe me either when I told them I was doing those things as a service, not as a money maker.



Never said your name LeRoy. Been over this before and dont care to do it again.

Thanks
Justin


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## Justturnin (Jan 13, 2012)

I cant say that I miss them.  I still go through some old ads looking for items others have sold that I need and if I find it I pm to see if they still carry it.  While on my searches I find ads that have turned into conversations between a few people where they should  have taken it to a seperate thread to ask their questions.  as someone that sells often on the Prem Classifieds I prefer this way.  There are a few reasons.

1. Like said, the ads are clean and it makes it easier for me to see who wants what.  I dont need a 'PM Sent' post becasue when I log into the IAP I get a pop-up that says I got a message.
2. I feel I am giving something back to the person that manages this site.  Nothing is free and I struggle with the thought that others are angry becasue of a minimal fee.  Go check out some ther sites that have the same traffic as the IAP and see what they charge.  $10 is nothing.
3. I used to post multiple ads w/ a few blanks, the changes forced me to consolidate my ads to larger ads and it makes it so much easier for me to manage what I am selling.


On a Final note, I am loving the like botton.  Sometimes that is all that is needed on a post.  Good job getting that in play.

Thanks


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## IPD_Mr (Jan 13, 2012)

Well well well, now you folks can see a bit of what Jeff was trying to do and deal with when the changes came down the pipeline. My take on this whole issue is pretty simple, you cannot please everyone no matter how hard you try. Jeff did two things when he made the changes that he did. One was he appealed to what the majority of what people wanted. He spent a great deal of time with this and did not make the changes on a whim but rather intelligently. And most importantly he did what was best for IAP. Jeff took a rash of **** from people, I know this because I gave him some. :redface: People hate change even when it is for their benefit. I drive a lousy 5 miles to our warehouse everyday. When they were widening and repaving the road I take there was a detour to get to the warehouse. I screamed bloody murder even though in the long run I would benefit from the new road. We find comfort in familiarity and routine. Just think if all the pen-making was done with familiarity and routine. We would have a bunch of pens that look alike.

So love it, hate it, agree, or disagree - In the long run what was done was best for the IAP. We should all appreciate getting back to the basics and advancing our craft. Look as some of the new designs out there because people are using their mind and not shopping for the next idea. Yes I know I am a vendor, but I am also a turner and want and need to spend more time behind the lathe.

Speaking of lathes anyone know of a good deal on a Microlux 7x16? :biggrin:


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## KnB Polymers (Jan 13, 2012)

Wow, to think this started out with a simple "I miss the old classifieds"


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## OKLAHOMAN (Jan 13, 2012)

Mike right on, Hmmm a Microlux 7x16 no but sure do on a 7x14....eat your heart out:biggrin:


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## Smitty37 (Jan 13, 2012)

*Yes*



maxwell_smart007 said:


> Smitty37 said:
> 
> 
> > I even have to get prior permission to put an offer there of kits for"Pens for Troops" at my cost.
> ...


 I am not guessing.  Jeff will then add an entry to my offer saying that it is a bonifide charty offering.


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## Smitty37 (Jan 13, 2012)

*Just a correction*



Timebandit said:


> Smitty37 said:
> 
> 
> > Not within the rules Justin - I can't post anything in steals and deals if I also sell it (or similar items) as a vendor. Since I sell pen kits I can't offer even kits that I don't stock there. I presume that would apply to drill bits, bushings and anything similar also.
> ...


 Not intended to start any additional discussion Justin.  The statement I highlighted is just not true.  Trust me on this - I am a small vendor and have tried to use steals and deals....


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## nativewooder (Jan 13, 2012)

My take on this is that if you miss the "old classifieds" then you probably miss being 18 and all the women you didn't get to flirt with!  Get over it!  Start a site called "Nostalgia Rants"!:biggrin:  Yea, I remember the "good old days" as well as anybody!!!:tongue:


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## Smitty37 (Jan 13, 2012)

*Bet ya don't!!!!!*



nativewooder said:


> My take on this is that if you miss the "old classifieds" then you probably miss being 18 and all the women you didn't get to flirt with! Get over it! Start a site called "Nostalgia Rants"!:biggrin: Yea, I remember the "good old days" as well as anybody!!!:tongue:


 NOBODY remembers the "good old days" as well as I do ---- NOBODY!!!!!


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## glycerine (Jan 13, 2012)

I agree that it's much cleaner.  I like it that way.  This IS the "International Association of Penturners", not the "International Association of Penturning-Related Advertisements"... so if you want the old classifieds, go to craigslist, you'll find plenty there!


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## chrisk (Jan 13, 2012)

Timebandit said:


> Christos,
> Im sorry that you feel punished for having to pay a very minimal fee considering what it would cost you to sell those blanks anywhere else.



Justin,
Just to clarify. I didn't felt punished after I paid $5-10 but for the "one size fits all" behind this fee, seemingly intended as a reward to the IAP community by people making money from this same IAP community (which is great as a principle). Well, I not only didn't make money but lost money, time, leisure from my holidays, etc. in this venture.
Will I be doing this again? 1000% even with the new rules. But I'm asking all of my colleagues to think twice when they blame indistinctly all of us who are considering the IAP also for buying/selling/trading materials (rare woods...), pen kits/components, etc. Well IMHO all this is also about penmaking! 

Respectfully.

Christos.


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## RussFromNH (Jan 13, 2012)

I am relatively new to pen turning.. I come to the IAP site maybe 5 to 6 times every day to see what people are making and what they are saying. I have learned everything that I know about pen turning from the people on this site. Not having the classifieds has not changed how often I come to the site. Just what pages I look at.
 
I do miss the old classifieds but not for the classifieds or "flea-market" part of it, but more for the "craft fair" side. I used to enjoy looking at the classifieds because it had such a variety of woods, tools and blanks that I have never seen before. Yes, I can go to a vender's site and see wood blanks, but I would imagine that they show only the "best of the best" as they should. On the classifieds page I could see real wood blanks, and more often than not wood that I have never heard of. It had more of a "hands on" feel that you don't get on the Internet... 
 
Maybe I just don't look hard enough for them now, but when they were in the old classifieds it was mostly all in one place.


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## maxwell_smart007 (Jan 13, 2012)

A few of the heavy-users of the classifieds who used to have a wide variety of blanks stopped selling before the new rules, for health reasons or otherwise...Big Rob comes to mind. 

He always had a huge number of neat blanks...Nolan too - same deal there.  (I.e. not new-classifieds induced)


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## Boss302 (Jan 13, 2012)

The unintended consequence of all the new rules is that the small time sellers, with their interesting products and generally good prices, have disappeared but I still see postings from the same people selling stuff that I thought this new policy was suppose to deter.  Almost any forum that deals with woodworking, has some portion of the site committed to commerce, so to think this site should be limited only to the discussion and sharing of pen turning information is not realistic.

This is a great member driven forum with excellent leadership and management.  If you’re going to disagree with the original post, then do so with common sense and logic and not with exclamation points and sarcasm.


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## alphageek (Jan 13, 2012)

Boss302 said:


> The unintended consequence of all the new rules is that the small time sellers, with their interesting products and generally good prices, have disappeared but I still see postings from the same people selling stuff that I thought this new policy was suppose to deter.  Almost any forum that deals with woodworking, has some portion of the site committed to commerce, so to think this site should be limited only to the discussion and sharing of pen turning information is not realistic.
> 
> This is a great member driven forum with excellent leadership and management.  If you’re going to disagree with the original post, then do so with common sense and logic and not with exclamation points and sarcasm.



The new policies were not set up to deter anyone in the classifieds.   Yes, there is a cost to sell in most of the classifieds.   If a person is truely a SMALL seller, they can sell in the free ads - we have it happen all the time still today (as in occasional seller of unique stuff they have).   The repeat sellers do have to go into whichever paid forum, but its been shown that the rates there if you group together a reasonable amount of product compare very positively with other sources (like ebay).

This forum is not limited to just discussion, there is a commerce area  here as well - the new rules just help keep the sales where they belong and help with site costs as well.


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## patsikes (Jan 13, 2012)

I agree...not as much fun stuff to buy...


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2012)

> ...the small time sellers, with their interesting products and generally good prices, have disappeared



Give me a list of member names, I'll personally fund 5 thread credits for each of them and let's see if we can't get them back offering goodies for us.

It was never the intent to shut out any of the smaller vendors. I asked more than once for anyone who felt that the cost or rules were going to shut them down to contact me and we'd discuss how to keep them selling. One of the smallest is still selling, and is in fact our #1 ad buyer. 



Boss302 said:


> The unintended consequence of all the new rules is that the small time sellers, with their interesting products and generally good prices, have disappeared but I still see postings from the same people selling stuff that I thought this new policy was suppose to deter.  Almost any forum that deals with woodworking, has some portion of the site committed to commerce, so to think this site should be limited only to the discussion and sharing of pen turning information is not realistic.
> 
> This is a great member driven forum with excellent leadership and management.  If you’re going to disagree with the original post, then do so with common sense and logic and not with exclamation points and sarcasm.


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## kovalcik (Jan 13, 2012)

Overall, I think the new rules are an improvement.  I do miss the people who sold blanks on the old classifieds.  Whether because of the new rules, the other reasons mentioned above, or maybe just the time of year I do not see the same selection of wood blanks that I used to see.   As a result, PSI, woodturningz, woodcraft, and ebay have gotten more business from me.  For kits and supplies, I still buy from the "bigger" sellers here who have web sites, but I miss the guys who used to ship a priority box full of wood for a very good price.  I hope they start coming back.


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## alphageek (Jan 13, 2012)

kovalcik said:


> Overall, I think the new rules are an improvement.  I do miss the people who sold blanks on the old classifieds.  Whether because of the new rules, the other reasons mentioned above, or maybe just the time of year I do not see the same selection of wood blanks that I used to see.   As a result, PSI, woodturningz, woodcraft, and ebay have gotten more business from me.  For kits and supplies, I still buy from the "bigger" sellers here who have web sites, but I miss the guys who used to ship a priority box full of wood for a very good price.  I hope they start coming back.



If they don't come back - it shouldn't be because there is a cost.   I know that if a seller posts 5 flat rate boxes for sale in a $5 classified, I would have no issue spending $1 extra on a box to help the cover the cost of selling me that box of blanks here so I don't have to go other places!   Knowing that the money keeps IAP running, I have absolutely no problem with the seller passing that cost along.


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## kovalcik (Jan 13, 2012)

alphageek said:


> Knowing that the money keeps IAP running, I have absolutely no problem with the seller passing that cost along.




I agree with you.  I would gladly pay a little more to support IAP.  I do not know why they are no longer around. Maybe the rules, maybe health issues as you mentioned, or maybe it is just a bad time of year for people (I joined last spring, so maybe this is normal for the winter months). I just hope they start filtering back.


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## Texatdurango (Jan 13, 2012)

I did a little looking around and found one thing interesting...... Most of the people making a big deal about missing the classifieds and wishing things would return to the good ole days where vendors cound post anything anywhere they felt like it, weren't very active members even when the classifieds were in full swing!

It's clear that some visit the forum to participate in sharing ideas, showing their work and helping others when they can while others just visit to participate in threads like this one and gripe about how things could be better.  

I've got a novel idea, instead of complaining, how about making a pen and showing it in the SOYP forum or sharing your experiences next time a new member posts asking a question!

I don't think it's a shame the classifieds are gone, what I think is a shame is when someone posts a question being stumped with a problem, there are the usual handful of members who will respond with help or advice and for a forum with several hundred active members that's pretty SAD!  But let a controversial thread like this one start and look at them come out of the woodwork!


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## ed4copies (Jan 13, 2012)

Texatdurango said:


> I did a little looking around and found one thing interesting...... Most of the people making a big deal about missing the classifieds and wishing things would return to the good ole days where vendors cound post anything anywhere they felt like it, weren't very active members even when the classifieds were in full swing!
> 
> It's clear that some visit the forum to participate in sharing ideas, showing their work and helping others when they can while others just visit to participate in threads like this one and gripe about how things could be better.
> 
> ...




I've got a novel idea too:  Let's ALLOW ALL members to state their opinions without one particular member telling them their posts are "unworthy"!!

Then those who like any ONE section can come and go without someone's verbal abuse of how they make THEIR choices!!!


----------



## Smitty37 (Jan 13, 2012)

*We do what we can....*



Texatdurango said:


> I did a little looking around and found one thing interesting...... Most of the people making a big deal about missing the classifieds and wishing things would return to the good ole days where vendors cound post anything anywhere they felt like it, weren't very active members even when the classifieds were in full swing!
> 
> It's clear that some visit the forum to participate in sharing ideas, showing their work and helping others when they can while others just visit to participate in threads like this one and gripe about how things could be better.
> 
> ...


 Well I put that in this category...I read many of the questions.  Most of them I'm not the guy who can help with an answer.  I'm sure I'm not the only one here in that position.  For instance, there are many questions about CA finishing, well I've never done a CA finished pen in my life so what good would my advice be.  The reason there are a certain few who answer most questions like that is there are a certain few who have the experience and expertise to answer.  And even in the three years I've been coming here some of the folks answering now weren't answering then.


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## Texatdurango (Jan 13, 2012)

ed4copies said:


> Texatdurango said:
> 
> 
> > .....
> ...


 
My, my, did I hit on a nerve or what! VERBAL ABUSE, who are you kidding! Actually you're way off base, I'm not TELLING anyone anything, I'm just *voicing my OPINION*..... *just like those who are complaining!  The last time I looked, that's still allowed here!*


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## MesquiteMan (Jan 13, 2012)

Guys, let's please try to remain friendly here!


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## Phunky_2003 (Jan 13, 2012)

I will add to this conversation from a point of view that hasn't been heard from yet.

I was a small time seller from the old classifieds who hasn't posted an add in the new classifieds. I think I ran 3 adds... so not much smaller than that.

I haven't posted on the new classifieds, not due to the cost issue or any other issue from the new posting rules. Although I was extremely confused when the first came out ( and still am but I will work that out privately with those individuals when the time comes ). My issue is I make pen blanks and have started seeing more and more. In the last few months seems like everyone is making there own and wanting to sell them. I'm not in the same boat. I make 3 - 5 blanks on what I think will make a nice pen, make that pen, if someone asks about the blank I let them know I made it myself and that I have extras.

Ive sold quite a bit from the old adds and still get orders.  If I get my stock back up I may post another add, the money or new rules wont deter that.


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## ed4copies (Jan 13, 2012)

MesquiteMan said:


> Guys, let's please try to remain friendly here!



Looks really funny to see a TEXAN speaking CANADIAN!!:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:


(See original post with Andrew's edit explanation---lost something in the "copy" process)


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## Smitty37 (Jan 13, 2012)

*hmmmm*



ed4copies said:


> MesquiteMan said:
> 
> 
> > Guys, let's please try to remain friendly here!
> ...


 
I think I would have added a "s"....


----------



## MesquiteMan (Jan 13, 2012)

Smitty37 said:


> ed4copies said:
> 
> 
> > MesquiteMan said:
> ...



Actually, that was my intent when I posted that.  It was supposed to be "Let's please try to remain friends" rather than friendly.  His edit works fine too, though.  This is a good example of why we typically do not edit posts.  One little edit can change the meaning significantly.  Andrew did fine with this one, though.


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## louie68 (Jan 13, 2012)

Curtis you tell them!!! LOL


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## Andrew_K99 (Jan 13, 2012)

Texatdurango your observations are correct, I noticed it as well, and it is worth paying attention to.  Lower post count members are giving their opinion here.

First, have a look at this thread.  It explains why few answer questions.

As to why your observation is important is that they (those that don't often contribute) feel this topic is important enough to voice their opinion, that says a lot IMO and I hope the mods listen to everyone, not just the very active members.

AK


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## louie68 (Jan 13, 2012)

I join March 2010 and I must say this site is how I learn how to turn pens, learn how to do casting's with various media,where i can buy my wood, tools, pen pouches, etc., talk to other pen turners, and share each other knowledge all for no cost !!!!.
Pen writing is becoming very extinct, lets not make pen turning extinct, "SHARE YOUR KNOWLEDGE" Louie Bufalo/louie56


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## KnB Polymers (Jan 13, 2012)

Andrew_K99 said:


> Texatdurango your observations are correct, I noticed it as well, and it is worth paying attention to.  Lower post count members are giving their opinion here.
> 
> First, have a look at this thread.  It explains why few answer questions.
> 
> ...




Ouch! I can see this one exploding!


----------



## Andrew_K99 (Jan 13, 2012)

KnB Polymers said:


> Ouch! I can see this one exploding!


I hope not!  That wasn't the intent!!

AK


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## RussFromNH (Jan 13, 2012)

Wow...  I guess I now know my place here.


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## alphageek (Jan 13, 2012)

Andrew_K99 said:


> First, have a look at this thread.  It explains why few answer questions.



That poll is still the funniest thing I've ever seen.... A lurker by definition is someone who only reads.    How do you count them in a poll if all they do is read?   :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:


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## Andrew_K99 (Jan 13, 2012)

alphageek said:


> Andrew_K99 said:
> 
> 
> > First, have a look at this thread.  It explains why few answer questions.
> ...



Okay, I agree the poll is flawed by the content.  I hope the mods and other members found the 90-9-1 as interesting as I did.

AK


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## KnB Polymers (Jan 13, 2012)

alphageek said:


> Andrew_K99 said:
> 
> 
> > First, have a look at this thread.  It explains why few answer questions.
> ...




LOL! That's true ... if you're just a lurker and only read, you're not gonna click on the "I'M A LURKER!" button.


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## alphageek (Jan 13, 2012)

RussFromNH said:


> Wow...  I guess I now know my place here.



I wouldn't be too worried about it Russ.  Most of us won't hold join date or post count against you.   

Well... Unless your post count is insanely high <cough> Ed <cough>... :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:


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## PTsideshow (Jan 13, 2012)

Having never seen the old ads, but from the sound of it the new ones are better it would appear.
Also having come from a turning forum that treated new people badly, I can say that this forum is the best. I have learned more here since I have joined, have purchased a number of items from some venders and members. Haven't found anything in the classifieds that I wanted yet.
It is a great place and hope to add when I can with my expertise, in areas that I know.
This is a great forum!!
:clown:


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2012)

Let me pose a question. I don't want an answer, I just want you all to ponder it.
*
If a new member were reading this thread, do you think it would make them want to hang around?*

I ask this because lately I've been very focused on bringing in new members. Why? Because any community needs a steady stream of new blood with new questions and new ideas. I believe it's our responsibility to educate new members and bring them into the great word of penmaking. It makes us a stronger community and drives us all to excel at what we do.

Without new members participating, we'll wither and die. It's really that simple.

I spend hours every week doing things which I hope will grow our community. Over the last couple weeks, for example, I've done some search engine optimization and adwords advertising that has doubled the new member registration rate. I've spent well over 20 hours since last weekend tweaking our sitemap generator, linkback system, and social network integration so we'll get better positioning and convert visitors to new members. 

I don't think new members expect utopia, and in fact I think they like to see that this is a lively place where they can express their opinions. But can we please be a little more respectful of other's different opinions?

I can bring them in, but I count on ALL OF YOU to maintain this as a place where they'll WANT TO STAY. Please help me.


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## greenmtnguy (Jan 13, 2012)

RussFromNH said:


> Wow...  I guess I now know my place here.


Russ,
Come on down to the New England chapter meeting in Spfd Mass and we will make you welcome. :biggrin:
We are friendly cusses there.


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## witz1976 (Jan 13, 2012)

greenmtnguy said:


> RussFromNH said:
> 
> 
> > Wow...  I guess I now know my place here.
> ...



Yea can we move that puppy closer to New Hampshire?  Springfield is like a 6 hour drive one way :redface:


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## patmurris (Jan 14, 2012)

I was hoping this thread would act sort of like a poll regarding the new classifieds sections so that Jeff and the administrators can have a feel of how the change is perceived and i thank those who have expressed their opinions on that matter.

However, i'm quite saddened to say the least by the attitude and loudness of what i would tend to call the "serial posters". It seems that some just can't leave in peace if only one person is in disagreement with their view and can't help but reply at any hint of dissent. This results in others opinions being drowned by the resulting noise, which in the end make this kind of thread hard to read and confusing. In that regard i wish the OP could set a maximum number of replies allowed for each member.

Thanks Jeff for this great forum - still love it you know! :biggrin:


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## robutacion (Jan 14, 2012)

Hi peoples,

There is one thing that I think everyone is forgetting about, and there is the human nature of "alleviating" some personal steam...!
What I mean is, WE all seemed to get pushed towards these type threads, why...??? well, making pens, selling wood, and all the other dozens of stuff we do or have to do in our life's, there is a time were we get a little "numb".   Some call it routine, habit, etc, etc but, I call it "life" in its various shapes and forms, and regardless of who you are, were you live and colours of your skin, we all need to do a bit of "wingeing", every so often, even if it feels like something else.

However, I can see that a lot of people is right about what they say and feel, even tough that may be miss interpreted by some, particularly the new members that don't really know, what we are talking about...!

My advise to these new members is, don't make much of it and don't worry about being in the wrong place, you couldn't possible be in a better place to achieve what made you come in, in the first place, there is, learn...!:wink:

And cutting a long story short (well, maybe a year or two...!), you will find yourself being a participant in these type of "stress relief" threads, even if the OP didn't intend of such, some time from now so, this is all part of this "cycle" of learning and sharing info on the web, regardless if pen related or not...!

There is also some truth to the fact that, the lack of adds from many of the smaller vendors (such as myself), has nothing to do with the classifieds changes within IAP, of which I'm in total agreement with Jeff.  
There are many other reasons why some of these people haven't been much active lately, none of them direct involved with the changes but simply due to timing and other commitments.

Sure, there are a few "disgrunted" members that aren't happy that the "cow run out of milk", there aren't or weren't much of a member, as they were here for one purpose only so, for these people is a case of, "bad tities...!":wink::biggrin:

I also think that, may be a unfortunate reduction of responses from the "old timers" to the newbie's, this is only logical and expected as, is only so many times a person is prepare to respond to the same question, time and time again...! Of-course, those questions are as important now as they were when we all started learning how to make pens, and deal with its relevant issues so, they will be continued to be asked, for many more years to come.  However, I think that, if IAP could manage to some how prepare a "welcome" and an agreed/voluntary group answering people/older members, that will have the responsibility to welcome and issue these new members with, a sort of a "starter kit" to help them to navigate and know where to look to find things within IAP, that would probably solve the disappointments/claims, some new members feel/felt when they joined in...!

While, having a good library within, a new member will not appreciate to be sent only to the library and search for what he/she wants to know, that is the fastest way to loose a new member, just thing of what you though or would thing/react upon such response, in your very beginnings here, they need, expect and deserve to have that personal response from someone...! We all done the same trip.

So, there is no need to panic Jeff, the new members will continue to grow as the pen making interest is growing all around the world, IAP is still their best choice for their needs, and many of us will continue to make sure, they get their questions answered and that, they will find everything they need, particular Aussie pen blanks in my case, within this forum's wall's...!

Cheers
George


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## nava1uni (Jan 14, 2012)

This thread is very interesting.  I have read all of the posts and must say that it has the feeling of a lot of the older posts that used to go on and on with a hint of discord and underlying anger.  I thought that this type of thing had sort of passed away.  I still read lots of posts and comment occasionally.  To me the ads are different, just that.  Not good or bad, just different.  It is always interesting to me how involved some of the threads become and how something so benign as the original comment could cause such a discussion.  IF the new ad system support IAP then good.  There are no dues, no costs to participate and if you don't support it by donating then who and how does it get by.  Think about it, are you doing something to support IAP?  If not, then either find a way that you can or accept the current system.  I like this forum and will continue to support it in the ways that I do and hope that everyone else can see their way to do so also.  I really thought that this issue had been put to bed a long time ago.


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## socdad (Jan 14, 2012)

I submitted ads under both systems, not much difference from my point of view. I consider myself as a ‘small vendor’ only offering one type of product and will continue to place ads when I have ‘supplies’ to sell.


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## leehljp (Jan 15, 2012)

Due to work overload and a continental move, I have been basically absent for the last couple of years, except for a few spurts on occasion. But one of the things that I just noticed was the absence of ads.

I know that the moderators have a handful and they do a great job. But I also still miss the ads. In looking for some blanks, I went to the classifieds as I was supposed to and I was surprised to see a lack of fresh posting by one of my favorite suppliers of a couple of years ago. It was/is the ease of supplies/blanks that brought me here as much as anything else. I come to read and see what is going on and how I can help, but I also come to see the creativity of people who make blanks rather than run to large commercial vendors. It is our forums own vendor personnel that drive the industry. Placing them in a classified section DOES organize the process on this forum but it also takes them out of the mainstream. 

I personally liked the ads in the mainstream. AS to the idea that on orders, there is the repeated "PM Sent" post - that is not a distraction at all and should not be even mentioned as a reason for moving to the classifieds. I enjoyed seeing all of the "PM Sent" only posts because it showed the popularity of our creative vendor's work as well as the quality of their work or cuts or displays. 

I realize that I am only one and I don't purchase from high pressure people, from gaudy ads, and from people who tell me what I want. I don't trust classifieds in magazines without doing my own research. I don't trust printed material outright. But I do trust the vendors here. My opinion is not that much of a priority but I will post it in hoping my opinion is valued.

Until this thread, I wondered what I was missing and it suddenly dawned on me that I was missing the thing that pulled me into making more pens - the beautiful wood and blanks that came up regularly.

I would like to see it brought back to the mainstream. 

For any who agree, or disagree, please keep it civil. I am not wanting to re-ignite anything but wishing that this subject be reconsidered.


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## Greg O'Sherwood (Jan 17, 2012)

okay, I'll offer my neck for the chopping block.

I've travelled extensively in my life and one of my favorite things to do in other countries is to go to the huge local bazaar or outdoor market. The excitement in those places is intense and you can feel the enthusiasm of the vendors there.

I loved the old classifieds and came to IAP often for those specifically. Why? Because I enjoyed seeing the blanks, lined up by the score, in post after post after post. I liked seeing the deals to be had and the newest of the new offerings. I loved the uncontrolled enthusiasm of the vendors, big, small and in-between... and I bought from them. I've spent thousands of dollars on pen kits, blanks and equipment as many of you have.

If a large vendor just completed a small batch - new thread! Updated often! Loved it!

Is all that gone? Not entirely, but some vendors of every size seem to have curtailed their postings dramatically, or have spaced them in order to get the most in the least amount of threads.

Since the rule change, I've reduced my visits here dramatically, not purposely, but as a result of the changes I, as a buyer, haven't the same enthusiam that I felt leaked down to me by the vendors. 

What have I just defined myself as? 
Not so much a sharer of expert knowledge as I am not an expert.
Not so much a highly talented penmaker, because I don't push the envelope. I enjoy making kit pens from blanks others make and sell.

I am a buyer. 

That's apparently a lower life form according to some here - Tex and others who prefer to shout down opposition. Yeah, you guys are known for that. You made that bed, lie in it.

I miss the rampant vendor posting. Ed, Constant, and many others were favorites of mine to follow.

Is my opinion popular? No. But that's fine, too. I'm only one small penmaker and I'm sure I'm not missed here at IAP. Some of the vendors are still receiving my business, but I've moved some of my purchases to local retailers as a result.

Chop away. :wink: I won't be here much to notice.

.


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## ed4copies (Jan 17, 2012)

_Is my opinion popular? No. But that's fine, too. I'm only one small  penmaker and I'm sure I'm not missed here at IAP. Some of the vendors  are still receiving my business, but I've moved some of my purchases to  local retailers as a result.

Greg--thanks!! I read that as "Ed is an enthusiastic, energetic vendor"!

_I don't think your opinion IS so isolated.  The success of our little company is, I believe, a strong demonstration (if not proof) of the interest of many IAP members in hearing about, and purchasing products.  Some members did not like it and have been vocal enough to convince "IAP management" that is needed changing._  So be it.

Remember though, we are JUST AS ENTHUSIASTIC as we have EVER BEEN!!!  We are merely forced to "curb our enthusiasm" when participating in IAP threads.  The pendulum swings, it will, after sufficient time, come to rest in the middle.

KEEP VISITING IAP!!!  There is no better place to "talk pens" and, for us, MAKE FRIENDS!!!

Ed
_


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## glycerine (Jan 17, 2012)

Greg O'Sherwood said:


> okay, I'll offer my neck for the chopping block.
> 
> I've travelled extensively in my life and one of my favorite things to do in other countries is to go to the huge local bazaar or outdoor market. The excitement in those places is intense and you can feel the enthusiasm of the vendors there.
> 
> ...


 
The two parts highlighted in red go hand in hand.  You are a buyer and that bazaar/flea market atmosphere excites you.  The IAP is here first as an informational site on penmaking.  The buying and selling is an extra perk (or not, depending on how you look at it), so I believe that's why you feel that you're opinion is "not popular".


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## Smitty37 (Jan 17, 2012)

*Just a thought...*

I've been a member for just a little over two years.  Before I joined I sold on eBay and I was invited to join by several different members who knew me only as a seller.  They asked me to join because they thought I was a good guy to do business with and offered prices that would make a lot of members happy.

In short, they asked me to join because I was a vendor - not because they thought I would contribute to the 'how to' aspects of the site.  I tend to think I'm not the only small vendor who got here that way.  Others started selling because their friends here urged them to.  We are all performing a service by selling here.  Yes we sometimes make a profit - we need to do that to keep selling to you - but I suspect none of us is getting rich by selling in this venue. 

Clubs, groups, hobby forums and whatever, usually come into being because of sharing a common interest and that is true of IAP... and at some point almost all of them start to invite sellers of products in which they also have a common interest to their meetings (or sites).  Those sellers should not be treated like "poor relatives".

I get a bit upset when people who are "pen" vendors complain about folks who are "pen components" vendors poluting their site...that seems just a tad hypocritical to me.


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## jeff (Jan 18, 2012)

Many thanks to you all for your comments.

I went through this thread several times to identify the common themes and I have gotten some good information. I've got some ideas for small changes that could make big differences, so give us a little time to work on those and figure out how to move forward.


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## Greg O'Sherwood (Feb 26, 2012)

I figured I'd drop by and see if anything came of this after 5 weeks. 

Apparently not yet?

.


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## alphageek (Feb 26, 2012)

Greg - there is this little thing called the birthday bash that is absorbing any time that Jeff can put toward IAP.   Once that gets done, I'll bet he starts thinking about other site stuff again.


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## 76winger (Feb 26, 2012)

jeff said:


> Many thanks to you all for your comments.
> 
> I went through this thread several times to identify the common themes and I have gotten some good information. I've got some ideas for small changes that could make big differences, so give us a little time to work on those and figure out how to move forward.



I think the hard part in all of this is to find that middle ground, where you are trying to provide a service that works out well for all parties. In the case of this site, that's pen makers and component providers. The craft needs both, and the site hosts both. 

What I'm gathering from this thread as a pen maker that really never participated in the classifieds section (as a buyer or seller) is that you've got a good number of site members that miss  a service that's been curtailed maybe just a little to much to try and reach other goals you've set for the site and yourself. 

Good luck on finding that balance that works to keep everyone happy as possible, knowing that whatever you do there's going to be some small portion of the community you've built that isn't going to be happy with it. My prayers will be for some good guidance as you  and the others try to figure it out.


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## OLDMAN5050 (Feb 26, 2012)

*old forum*

I have not posted any of the pen boxes or leather cases since the new rules. Simply can"t afford to for what I sell them for. I did like and enjoy the old forum to where I could brouse what other people were trying to sell. I started coming to this forum because I love making pens and love the craft. Always wanting to improve myself and will still come to this forum for that reason. I tried to put the like thumb up on a couple of Smittys post on this thread and I was not allowed to> I wonder why?.. This is a great place to learn and to share with like minded people... would like to be able to share the things I have came across. but can't afford to.......:frown:


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## maxwell_smart007 (Feb 26, 2012)

OLDMAN5050 said:


> I tried to put the like thumb up on a couple of Smittys post on this thread and I was not allowed to> I wonder why?..



no reason why you shouldn't have been able to...problem must be a cookie on your end or something like that, if I had to guess.


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## Greg O'Sherwood (May 8, 2012)

:coffee:


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## TellicoTurning (May 9, 2012)

Timebandit said:


> Its a shame that all of you are bored with this site without the barrage of classified ads in your face and money to be made. I came to this site for pens and pens alone and i am excited everytime i log in. Classifieds were just a bi-product for me, and i like this site no less without them. The first place i go to are New Posts and go through all of them like that. I didnt come here to buy things, i came here to learn. Hopefully you all can find the joy in Penturning again instead of product buying and money making and once again enjoy our amazing site.
> 
> Justin



Justin,
Have to agree with you... I do this site for the pen turning, camaraderie, etc... rarely ever go to the classifieds or most of the other forums... I like the Marketing thread, Other things we make and the Casual conversation... all other threads are gravy, but I'm watching my weight so stay away from most of the gravy anyway...:biggrin::biggrin:


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## gimpy (May 9, 2012)

I'm going to say one thing, It isn't very pleasant to get "scammed" which I have on this site........I continue to visit the site to learn and share knowledge, but will never make another purchase from this site


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## Timebandit (May 9, 2012)

gimpy said:


> I'm going to say one thing, It isn't very pleasant to get "scammed" which I have on this site........I continue to visit the site to learn and share knowledge, but will never make another purchase from this site



Have you spoken to management about this. We dont want these kind of people around here. If you were taken advantage of, please speak to one of the management.

Justin


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## Smitty37 (May 9, 2012)

TellicoTurning said:


> Timebandit said:
> 
> 
> > Its a shame that all of you are bored with this site without the barrage of classified ads in your face and money to be made. I came to this site for pens and pens alone and i am excited everytime i log in. Classifieds were just a bi-product for me, and i like this site no less without them. The first place i go to are New Posts and go through all of them like that. I didnt come here to buy things, i came here to learn. Hopefully you all can find the joy in Penturning again instead of product buying and money making and once again enjoy our amazing site.
> ...


 That's great for you, but a lot of folks also come to the site to purchase special blanks and the like that are not available to them elsewhere.  Here they can see photos of the actual blanks they'll be getting rather than a pic of a generic blank representing a type of wood.  Those are the folks who are going to feel the loss.


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## Texatdurango (May 9, 2012)

gimpy said:


> I'm going to say one thing, It isn't very pleasant to get "scammed" which I have on this site........I continue to visit the site to learn and share knowledge, but will never make another purchase from this site


Since you've said your one thing, I want to say my one thing (or a couple things).

First, the "site" didn't do a thing to you!  The site is a forum comprised of a few hundred active members, some of which choose to sell things to other members but the "site" doesn't sell things or sponsor anyone that I'm aware of to sell anything.  

There are several folks here selling things that we need and use everyday and I'm glad they are here but in recent years, more and more people found this forum and joined with only one purpose in mind.... to make money.  I suspect that some members don't even own a lathe or have ever turned a single pen.  

The owner of this forum and his team of moderators can only police what they know about so if you have been  "scammed", don't blame the forum, blame the individual who did it to you.

There is a forum called "Vendor cheers and jeers" and I would think that if it was a member vendor here who "scammed" you, the cheers and jeers forum would be the perfect place to post  a factual report about the incident so others won't fall prey to the same person.  Note I said factual, all too often we see rants about perceived slow shipping or some other nonsense and bash innocent vendors.


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## IPD_Mr (May 9, 2012)

I am still not sure which way I like the best.  For the most part the forum has a lot more meat to it which is a good thing.  Sometimes I miss seeing things for sale, but I think the one thing that it has stifled is the small guy that has created a new product.  Most likely unless they wants to become a re-seller they are not going to bother and we might miss out on some really neat and new things.  This use to be a great place to really gauge interest to see if a persons idea or product might be worth pursuing.  A good example was on a razor handle a while back that GTMustang was looking into.  Being able to openly discuss this he was able to determine the investment was not worth the risk.  So yes to some degree I do miss it but I also like seeing an increase in the focus on technique and design in the meat of the forum.


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## Smitty37 (May 9, 2012)

Texatdurango said:


> gimpy said:
> 
> 
> > I'm going to say one thing, It isn't very pleasant to get "scammed" which I have on this site........I continue to visit the site to learn and share knowledge, but will never make another purchase from this site
> ...


I personally received several invitations to join this organization from some of my eBay customers. I was selling component sets. 
 
I joined because they invited me.  They invited me because they thought I was a good vendor.  
 
Maybe they broke the rule on who to invite because they didn't know (at least some of them didn't) if I was a turner or not. All they knew was that I sold at reasonable prices and stood behind what I sold.
 
I am here primarily as a seller, rather than as a turner (I do turn a little).  I'm not here just to make money, if I was I'd have quit and got a day job a long time ago.


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## jeff (May 9, 2012)

Greg O'Sherwood said:


> :coffee:



Just curious... why did you bump a 2+ month old thread with a coffee cup icon?


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## Russianwolf (May 9, 2012)

IF this is a "pen-turning" site, why is there a forum on casting? casting doesn't have anything to do with pen turning. it could be its own forum entirely (in fact there are forums dedicated to casting). Its only tangentially related because we want it to be. Many who have gone into casting, do little else anymore from what I've seen. It becomes its own passion and in some cases business. 

Since its not specifically pen-turning, should that forum also be restricted? A maximum posts per month? 

OR, do we want to see the cool things they come up with? as soon as they happen? Like, Right Now? BRUCE, TAKE A PICTURE AND POST IT, WE NEED OUR FIX. :tongue:

I don't have a dog in this fight, but some aspects of the classifieds are missed by me also. There was an excitement that it brought, not knowing what was going to be here when you signed in. Or seeing that "I have something good that I'm going to post at 5PM" warning some gave due to the popularity of their wares (Nolan's blanks were like that often). Some of that waned as others have mentioned because some of the "best" simply can't do it any longer for their own reasons. But it and they are still missed.

The site didn't become boring, but as one gains knowledge and skills the basics become less appealing. That happens in everything. Do you excitedly go find people asking questions about what you learned your first weeks on the job? You answer those questions when they are brought to you, but it isn't exciting any more. Now what excites you is the next challenge.

But the site did lose one of the things that brought some extra excitement. Was it the rules, or something else that caused it to leave? who's to say.


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## Russianwolf (May 9, 2012)

jeff said:


> Greg O'Sherwood said:
> 
> 
> > :coffee:
> ...



I think post 76-78 may be the answer.

He's waiting. :biggrin:


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## Texatdurango (May 9, 2012)

Smitty, Don't get excited, I didn't have you in mind when I typed my post, no need in getting defensive and explaining yourself.  I was just stating a fact to illustrate that there are good folks here as well as some not so good and the number of vendors here compared to a few years ago has grown significantly.  The point of my post was to show that the "site" wasn't responsible for "scamming" gimpy, a vendor was!

I didn't know you sold on ebay, I didn't know you weren't a pen turner and to be honest, I never paid much attention to when you showed up because you came along after my interest in assembling kits had died down so I never really looked to see what you sold.


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## louisbry (May 9, 2012)

You need to take a coffee break after reading all this!


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## gimpy (May 9, 2012)

I have and the approriate action has been taken, thank you to a caring admin



Timebandit said:


> gimpy said:
> 
> 
> > I'm going to say one thing, It isn't very pleasant to get "scammed" which I have on this site........I continue to visit the site to learn and share knowledge, but will never make another purchase from this site
> ...


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## gimpy (May 9, 2012)

I'm not going to respond after this, I did not say the site scammed me I said I got scammed on the site, meaning someone who was selling items did not keep up the end of the sale.......I love IAP, and I mearly stated that I will not purchase from people from this site, except for those who did me GOOD, they know who they are.....The Admin team did a great job with this issue and I applaid them for that.............Thank you, sorry I broght up a sore subject.......The End



Texatdurango said:


> gimpy said:
> 
> 
> > I'm going to say one thing, It isn't very pleasant to get "scammed" which I have on this site........I continue to visit the site to learn and share knowledge, but will never make another purchase from this site
> ...


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## Smitty37 (May 9, 2012)

Texatdurango said:


> Smitty, Don't get excited, I didn't have you in mind when I typed my post, no need in getting defensive and explaining yourself. I was just stating a fact to illustrate that there are good folks here as well as some not so good and the number of vendors here compared to a few years ago has grown significantly. The point of my post was to show that the "site" wasn't responsible for "scamming" gimpy, a vendor was!
> 
> I didn't know you sold on ebay, I didn't know you weren't a pen turner and to be honest, I never paid much attention to when you showed up because you came along after my interest in assembling kits had died down so I never really looked to see what you sold.


 Oh, I didn't take it personally [hope it didn't seem like I did] and I am not at all excited or upset - I just wanted to point out that some of us are here only because our selling elsewhere prompted someone (in my case it was about half a dozen folks) to invite us to join. If I weren't a seller I might never have heard of IAP.

I am a pen turner, primarily wood. - I just don't turn a lot because of lung issues breathing sawdust.


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## Gin N' Tonic (May 9, 2012)

Gimpy,

This is a copy of your original post:

Originally Posted by gimpy
I'm going to say one thing, It isn't very pleasant to get "scammed" which I have on this site........I continue to visit the site to learn and share knowledge, but will never make another purchase from this site.

Nowhere did you mention that you were scammed by a vendor, instead you only say "this site" which to me imply's that you were pointing the finger at the admin. Unfortunately what you wrote and what you meant could be misinterpreted and that's what I think George was pointing out.






gimpy said:


> I'm not going to respond after this, I did not say the site scammed me I said I got scammed on the site, meaning someone who was selling items did not keep up the end of the sale.......I love IAP, and I mearly stated that I will not purchase from people from this site, except for those who did me GOOD, they know who they are.....The Admin team did a great job with this issue and I applaid them for that.............Thank you, sorry I broght up a sore subject.......The End
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## edicehouse (May 10, 2012)

It was a slow day at work, and I saw the title of this and I knew it would pass some time.

My 2 cents:

I don't think they fee's were put to keep people from posting things for sale, per say.  It was done so 1 person would not have 5 adds with 10 blanks each.  But have 1 add with 50 blanks.  It is a cost to run an add, and that should be reflected in your product.  Some of the people on here that sell items are so much lower than anyplace else, if they charged an extra 10 cents per pen kit, I don't think anyone would really notice (to cover the charges).


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## Smitty37 (May 11, 2012)

edicehouse said:


> It was a slow day at work, and I saw the title of this and I knew it would pass some time.
> 
> My 2 cents:
> 
> I don't think they fee's were put to keep people from posting things for sale, per say. It was done so 1 person would not have 5 adds with 10 blanks each. But have 1 add with 50 blanks. It is a cost to run an add, and that should be reflected in your product. Some of the people on here that sell items are so much lower than anyplace else, if they charged an extra 10 cents per pen kit, I don't think anyone would really notice (to cover the charges).


 Don't kid yourself, they'd notice.


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## Haynie (May 11, 2012)

And complain


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## Smitty37 (May 11, 2012)

Haynie said:


> And complain


I didn't say that:biggrin:


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## Greg O'Sherwood (May 14, 2012)

Russianwolf said:


> jeff said:
> 
> 
> > Greg O'Sherwood said:
> ...


 


Yup, I was hoping some sort of middle ground would have been found by now. Unfortunately not. It was mentioned earlier in the thread that you (Jeff) were looking into options and that some reconciliation was possible between the old way and this. 

I just dont understand how having restrictions on vendors makes this place better. THose who don't like it don't have to visit the vendor sections, do they?  

Never mind. I'll stop. I know all this was argued over and over again, and it is a private site, so management rules.

I'll keep checking in occasionally.

Thanks for putting up with the inquiries.

.


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