# Double Start Taps and Dies in M10 and M12



## jyreene

Okay all, I've gotten permission to move this from Group Buy Research to Group Buy. 


Using the numbers from the Group Buy Stickie:

1 – I have my name city and state in my profile (and have for a while)
 2 – I am currently getting the shipping charge to me from the company. Once I get this I will add it here and update the overall cost shipped to me. Should be in Monday. The current cost break down per tap and die is further in this post. This will not include shipping to anyone here as I don't have everyone's addresses (which is understandable until this is a definite go and moved to the group purchase and I start collecting funds but it will likely by flat rate boxes (I've already contacted the overseas buyer and worked out a rough shipping with him).  
 3 – This is the announcement 

 	A – Items will be M10 Double Start Tap and Die and M12 Double Start Tap and Die
 	B – Cost for 1 tap and die of these sets ranges from 122.20 to 159.94 discounted at 12 to 34.98 and 49 respectively (those are the least expensive and most expensive ones others are in between those costs)
 	C – Awaiting shipping estimate, extra insurance will not be bought unless requested. Then it will be calculated based on USPS prices, I will be using PayPal and if we do the friends and family there are no fees, I won't be charging for boxes or tape (just shipping and the taps and dies) since flat rate boxes are free.  
 	D – Payment will be PayPal or checks (I'm okay with either checks will just make the process take longer as I will have to wait for them to clear to put in the order but don't make that force you to not want to do this just understand it will take longer)
 	E – I will ship internationally and the one current member that wants a set has been in contact and agreed to the extra costs. I will still ship the cheapest method which I believe is flat rate but I have already worked this out with him)
 	F – The buy will be closed to orders a week after I get confirmation from everyone that said they wanted in the Group Buy Research post (which will be at the end of this post. I will send out a PM to all the individuals from the research post in a week just as a reminder to them.

 	G – There should not be any leftover funds but if there are I will just donate them to the IAP.
 	H – Nothing should be back ordered because they will be making these to order. The only delay will likely be in setting up their tooling.


 Here is the cost break down at the 12 pc price break:
 M10 double tap
 34.98


 M10 double die
 54.58


 M12 double tap
 42.90


 M12 double die
 51.33


 M10 double set
 89.56


 M12 double set
 94.23  


 This is who I have as being interested:


 M10 Tap Double
 Jyreene
 StevenG
Duncsuss

 edstreet
 ChrisN
 beck3906
 RDH79
 Seamus7227
 signguy
 cmiles1985
 silver
 bsea
 dansills
Carl Fisher (a maybe)
Adillo303
jj9ball



 M10 Die Double
 Jyreene
 StevenG
Duncsuss

 edstreet
 ChrisN
 beck3906
 RDH79
 Seamus7227
 signguy
 cmiles1985
 silver
 bsea
 dansills
Carl Fisher (a maybe)
Adillo303
jj9ball



 M12 Tap Double
 Jyreene
 Edstreet
 Duncsuss
 ChrisN
 beck3906
 RDH79
 Seamus7227
 signguy
 cmiles1985
 silver
 Dan Masshardt
 dansills
Carl Fisher (a maybe)
Mintman
Adillo303
jj9ball



 M12 Die Double
 Jyreene
 Edstreet
 Duncsuss
 ChrisN
 beck3906
 RDH79
 Seamus7227
 signguy
 cmiles1985
 silver
 Dan Masshardt
 dansills
Carl Fisher (a maybe)
Mintman
Adillo303
jj9ball


Here is the link to the Group Buy Research post. Monty will close it soon.
http://www.penturners.org/forum/f222/triple-quad-tap-die-124610/


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## Jim Burr

As expressed in the original thread..albeit just now  ...In for an M 10 set please!


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## its_virgil

I'll get in for both the M10 and M12 double set.
Thanks Ty,
Don


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## MikeL

I'm am interested in the M10 set (tap and die). Thank you.


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## BayouPenturner

Sorry for my ignorance, but what would be the estimated less shipping for a set of 10 and 12?  I don't know if I will use them any time soon and don't want to invest a lot of money just in case.  Thanks

I see the breakdown now, not interested.  thanks


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## SteveJ

So can you only join this group buy if you expressed interest in the Group Buy Research thread?


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## Timebandit

SMJ1957 said:


> So can you only join this group buy if you expressed interest in the Group Buy Research thread?



No, You can join. Jump right in!


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## Adillo303

I am in for a  double set (tap and die double start) M10 and a double set (tap and die double start) M12.

Thank you
Andy


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## jyreene

As Justin said, you can jump right in! The research post interested parties just sets the time limit...sort of.


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## Cmiles1985

You already have me on the "interested" list, but I am just confirming.


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## JD Combs Sr

*May be intereseted*

Just so that I completely understand, if I say I am in for the:

M12 double set
 94.23  

set, what exactly will I be getting?  My assumption is one M12 tap and one M12 die but I read someplace inhere about both tapered and bottoming taps.


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## Timebandit

JD Combs Sr said:


> Just so that I completely understand, if I say I am in for the:
> 
> M12 double set
> 94.23
> 
> set, what exactly will I be getting?



 A matching set, with a 12mm Tap and a Die. A Tap to cut the 12mm female threads, and a Die to cut the corresponding 12mm male threads.


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## JD Combs Sr

Ok count me in for one M12 set.


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## Timebandit

JD Im assuming they are tapered taps, as there usually arent enough people interested in the bottom taps.

Ty might want to just confirm that so everyone knows for sure. And it doesnt say anywhere in this thread about bottoms, so im assuming they are out.


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## jyreene

Justin, good question. This is what I got from the manufacturer:
[FONT=&quot]
You can mix and match on the taps  chamfer style  for example if you  wanted to get 3 bottom taps and taper taps I would sell at 6 pc price.   Any price combination at quantity breaks  could be used..
[/FONT]
So they can be tapered, bottoming, or whatever the third one is. So bottoming ones are not out.


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## jyreene

Also, if we magically make it to 24 then we get another price break, not on dies but on taps.

24 pc of M10 Double Tap - 29.60 ea
24 pc of M12 Double Tap - 37.55 ea

Not a huge difference but every bit helps.


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## SteveG

This is my confirmation to buy the:

M10 double set
89.56

Thanks


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## its_virgil

So getting a plug and a bottom tap is possible?
Don


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## jyreene

I sent the question onward. Once I get the answer I will let you know. I would assume yes since taper and bottom taps are mixable in the order but I didn't ask about plug taps last time (and I also only sort of understand the difference (have a link bookmarked to further educate myself)).


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## wizard

I would like to purchase the double 10mm plug tap and die and, if available, bottoming tap. Total of 3 pieces.  Please let me know how and when to pay.
Doc


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## JD Combs Sr

If it doesn't' complicate things I would prefer a plug tap.  It will be used mostly in plastic so doesn't really need the taper of a tapered tap but I would still like some lead-in that a bottoming tap doesn't have.

Optimally the best situation is to have both a tapered and a bottom tap, start the thread with a tapered tap then follow-up with the bottom but a plug tap is a good compromise.

Edit: Just saw the wizard's post.  For the purposes of pen cap threads the bottom tap would be best especially if you have limited length for the threads.  However, someone else will have to jump in here and let us know how well they start in plastic.  I have only used taps in metal and when I need threads to go all the way to the bottom of a hole I use the scenario noted above.  In plastic it may not be needed.  If not I would consider changing my order to a bottom tap.


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## Dan Masshardt

How do I know what style of tap I should be getting?  

Seems like tapered is the default.


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## JD Combs Sr

My personal opinion is that for use in plastic there is no need for a tapered tap, it is generally used for hard to cut materials such as alloyed steels and is sometimes followed up with a plug or bottom tap.  The difference in the taps is the taper:

Bottom taps = little to no taper - 1-2 threads  (Bottom refers to its ability to put threads all the way to bottom of blind hole)
Plug taps     = Some taper - 3-5 threads
Tapered       = A lot of taper - 8-10 threads

Edit:  Here is a link to a good description(scroll down about a screen) and a diagram on wikipedia.

Hope this is helpful.


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## JDennis

I'll get in for both the M10 and M12 double set.  I would also take a bottom tap for each if available and around same price for the tap.

Let me know when and where to send payment.
John


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## its_virgil

http://www.threadtools.com/Files/Taps technical info.pdf


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## duncsuss

It seems the term "plug tap" is ambiguous. Some people use it to mean "bottom tap", others use it to mean "second tap" (the intermediate between taper and bottom taps).

I'd be happy with either bottom taps or second taps -- I don't think it's necessary to have a long taper for the plastics I'll be using these on.


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## jj9ball

I'd also like my taps to be the plug or second tap please for both the 10 and 12 set I ordered. Thanks.


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## Cmiles1985

Add me up for the M10 and M12 tap and die set to include a bottoming tap and second tap in each size please.

M10 bottoming tap
M10 second tap
M10 die
M12 bottoming tap
M12 second tap 
M12 die

At the rate it's looking here, we might make 24 taps in one size or another!


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## duncsuss

Cmiles1985 said:


> At the rate it's looking here, we might make 24 taps in one size or another!



Nothing but good news here -- the fixed costs get divided more ways even if we don't reach the next break-point on the per-item costs.


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## SteveG

Based on the discussion intermingled with this thread, I am revising my order found at post #17, quoted:

This is my confirmation to buy the:

M10 double set
89.56


My revised order is:
M10 bottoming tap
M10 second tap
M10 die

Thus my total order is the 2 taps and one die
Thanks


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## thebillofwrites

I'm in for the same combination as Clark Miles:

M10 bottoming tap
M10 second tap
M10 die
M12 bottoming tap
M12 second tap 
M12 die

Thanks,

Bill


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## RDH79

*Confirming*

Confirming my purchase for both the M10 and M12 double


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## wizard

To clarify after reading the previous posts, please revise my order to:

M10 bottoming tap
M10 second tap
M10 die
M12 bottoming tap
M12 second tap 
M12 die

Thank you!


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## Kendallqn

I'd like in on this as well please  

M10 bottoming tap
M10 second tap
M10 die
M12 bottoming tap
M12 second tap 
M12 die

Thank You

Ken


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## RDH79

Revise my order ease to 

M10 bottoming tap
M10 second tap
M10 die
M12 bottoming tap
M12 second tap 
M12 die

Thank You

Rich H


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## MarkD

If there is room for more in this buy I would be interested in:

M10 bottoming tap
M10 second tap
M10 die
M12 bottoming tap
M12 second tap 
M12 die


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## beck3906

I would also be interested in:

M10 bottoming tap
M10 second tap
M10 die
M12 bottoming tap
M12 second tap 
M12 die


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## Dean

Load me up..I will take

M10 bottoming tap
M10 second tap
M10 die
M12 bottoming tap
M12 second tap 
M12 die


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## Monty

OK, I've been wavering on this for some time.
Add me up for the M10 and M12 tap and die set.

M10 bottoming tap
M10 die
M12 bottoming tap
M12 die


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## Carl Fisher

I'm in for 

M10 set
M12 set

whatever single tap works for each


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## KenBrasier

I would like to be included in the M10  Tap & Die set.


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## Jim Burr

Revising as follows...

M10 bottoming tap
M10 second tap
M10 die

Thanks!!


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## Dan Masshardt

Do you guys who are ordering 2 taps in the same size think that the bottom tap will have a hard time cutting threads on its own?


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## Timebandit

Dan Masshardt said:


> Do you guys who are ordering 2 taps in the same size think that the bottom tap will have a hard time cutting threads on its own?



Dan, i dont think the bottom tap will have trouble cutting threads on its own, at least not in soft material, but it might have a little trouble starting on its own. There is no taper at all on the tap, so there is nothing to help guide it into the whole or keep it nice and straight and start the threads slowly. Its meant to follow in another taps already threads and cut to the bottom of a hole. Its not designed as a starter tap. Its going to take full depth cuts right away. I might be worried about it cracking more fragile materials by just going all in rather than doing it slowly with the tapered tap. Not that it wont work, i havent tried it. Just going off of what i know about taps.


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## cajun skeeter

Put me down for a 10 mm and 12 mm set


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## its_virgil

I too would like to revise my order placed in post #3: I would like the M10 second and bottom tap and the M10 die. I would also like to order the M12 second and bottom tap and the M12 die. Thanks for doing this and for getting info on ordering both tap types.
Do a good turn daily!
Don


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## Grampy122

*One set of each size.*

Add me up for the M10 and M12 tap and die set to include a bottoming tap and second tap in each size please.

M10 bottoming tap
M10 second tap
M10 die
M12 bottoming tap
M12 second tap
M12 die


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## beck3906

Wow.  This is going from barely able to make the minimum qty to a significant purchase.


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## Twinturbine

count me in for double set of 10 and 12mm, my paypal good


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## Twinturbine

may i order a 12mm triple start set of tap/die?


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## Silver

As agreed I'm in for M10 and M12 double set

And can you out the M10 bottoming and the M12 bottoming taps please?

Thanks.


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## jyreene

duncsuss said:


> It seems the term "plug tap" is ambiguous. Some people use it to mean "bottom tap", others use it to mean "second tap" (the intermediate between taper and bottom taps).
> 
> I'd be happy with either bottom taps or second taps -- I don't think it's necessary to have a long taper for the plastics I'll be using these on.



You can have either or both. Let me know which and I'll mark you down.



Twinturbine said:


> may i order a 12mm triple start set of tap/die?



Unfortunately this is a double start buy. I believe SilverPenParts has triples in stock either now or soon (not trying to plug just what I've read).



Silver said:


> As agreed I'm in for M10 and M12 double set
> 
> And can you out the M10 bottoming and the M12 bottoming taps please?
> 
> Thanks.



Added the bottoming taps to yours.


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## duncsuss

jyreene said:


> duncsuss said:
> 
> 
> 
> It seems the term "plug tap" is ambiguous. Some people use it to mean "bottom tap", others use it to mean "second tap" (the intermediate between taper and bottom taps).
> 
> I'd be happy with either bottom taps or second taps -- I don't think it's necessary to have a long taper for the plastics I'll be using these on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can have either or both. Let me know which and I'll mark you down.
Click to expand...


I'll go for the second taps rather than the bottom taps.

(I really wish I could stretch the budget to get both, of course, but that's not possible at this time.)


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## Carl Fisher

So I guess that means second taps for my set orders.  I want to get by with only a single tap.


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## jyreene

All,

Looks like shipping to me, if it had stayed at the 12 sets of M10 and 12 sets of M12 would have been $20. They said it will be a little more weight so it will cost a little more since they ship based off of weight. So that won't add much to the overall cost, less than a dollar. 

I've attached the spreadsheet so far. It uses open office so some of you may not be able to see it. I've also saved an excel version but am unsure if the formatting will stay since Open Office files won't upload here. Green means they have posted in this thread, yellow has not.

I currently have not heard from the following original group research members:

Duncsuss (I've heard from him I'm just waiting on the tap choice)
ChrisN
Seamus7227
signguy
bsea
dansills
Dan Masshardt (I know he is researching which tap he wants)
Mintman

This is current as of Monday, August 8, 2014 at 4:20PM Eastern


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## jyreene

Updated for you Carl and Duncan.


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## jyreene

Also it looks like we are up to 58ish taps and 34 dies....


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## duncsuss

jyreene said:


> Also it looks like we are up to 58ish taps and 34 dies....



Ty,

Unless I'm reading the spreadsheet incorrectly, the numbers are much higher than that.



M10 taps total = 44
M10 dies total = 30

M12 taps total = 43
M12 dies total = 31


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## jyreene

Duncan,

I really really suck at math. Maths are hard.


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## jyreene

But that proves the spreadsheet is readable.


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## duncsuss

jyreene said:


> Duncan,
> 
> I really really suck at math. Maths are hard.





jyreene said:


> But that proves the spreadsheet is readable.



Trust me, I didn't add those up by hand ... there's a spreadsheet function that counts the number of non-blank cells in a given range. It might have been invented for exactly this scenario


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## jyreene

Worry part is, I know that.


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## jyreene

Something I want to make sure everyone is clear on, the plug tap (or second tap) is generally the tap that is used for pens (as far as I have seen and been told). If everyone that currently has taper selected wants to change to plug let me know. It's honestly what I would recommend because of our application. 

Here are the ones that have Taper (only)
ChrisN
Seamus7227
signguy
bsea
dansills
Adillo303
MikeL
KenBrasier
cajunskeeter
Twinturbine

If you want the Plug tap let me know.

I'll assume the ones that want just a bottom or want the bottom and a taper know exactly what they want if only because I'm still learning.


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## Timebandit

jyreene said:


> Something I want to make sure everyone is clear on, the plug tap (or second tap) is generally the tap that is used for pens (as far as I have seen and been told). If everyone that currently has taper selected wants to change to plug let me know. It's honestly what I would recommend because of our application.



Where is this info from Ty? From what i can see looking back at all the previous group buys for these, is that they are all tapered taps, other than the one group buy that Mredburn did for the 13mm triple start, they were plug taps. All other threads specify a tapered tap. I got in on two of the 12mm triple buys and one of the one of the 14mm tripple buys, and they were all tapered taps. So im assuming that the ones that i own are tapered taps, which means all the pens that ive made were with tapered taps. Who said the plug tap is generally the tap used for pens?


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## jyreene

Justin, it's honestly in the interaction with the company that is making them and with the few pen makers that taught me how to make kitless pens. The recommended taps that were emailed to me all pointed to plug type. 

More specifically from the tap and die company is that plug style is the most common chamfer lead for through holes and works really well. They did say that taper style work well for them too but are not as commonly used. 

Not trying to change anyone's mind I just want to make sure everyone truly gets what they want and are satisfied.


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## Timebandit

jyreene said:


> Justin, it's honestly in the interaction with the company that is making them and with the few pen makers that taught me how to make kitless pens. The recommended taps that were emailed to me all pointed to plug type.
> 
> More specifically from the tap and die company is that plug style is the most common chamfer lead for through holes and works really well. They did say that taper style work well for them too but are not as commonly used.
> 
> Not trying to change anyone's mind I just want to make sure everyone truly gets what they want and are satisfied.



Gotcha, was just curious. I wish Mike Redburn would chime in on this, as he has run most of the group buys on these, and also stocks them on his site. Only one set he sells specifies that its a plug tap, so im assuming the others he sells are tapered like we purchased in the past. I might PM him and see if he will chime in to help us out. Im not buying in on this, but i also want to make sure that everyone gets what they want and im also just a little curious.


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## jyreene

No worries Justin. I appreciate all the help I can get especially when it comes to kitless. I know I learned on plug but they were single start. Hope Mike chimes in too.


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## MikeL

The primary purpose for me is pen making. If plug is best then that is what I would like. I've bought from mredburn and victornet ( I think that what they are called) and it seems they were tapered. But, I am good with what is best so switch my request to plug please. Thanks




jyreene said:


> Something I want to make sure everyone is clear on, the plug tap (or second tap) is generally the tap that is used for pens (as far as I have seen and been told). If everyone that currently has taper selected wants to change to plug let me know. It's honestly what I would recommend because of our application.
> 
> Here are the ones that have Taper (only)
> ChrisN
> Seamus7227
> signguy
> bsea
> dansills
> Adillo303
> MikeL
> KenBrasier
> cajunskeeter
> Twinturbine
> 
> If you want the Plug tap let me know.
> 
> I'll assume the ones that want just a bottom or want the bottom and a taper know exactly what they want if only because I'm still learning.


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## Carl Fisher

Y'all are confusing me with this taper/plug thing.  

I want whichever is the one we normally get when we order from places like Indy~Pen~Dance and Classic Nib.  They have a slight taper at the start to get started but it's not overly long.

so if that's "plug" then change both of mine to plug.


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## jyreene

Okay, so to make it very clear would the following please specify if they want a tapered, plug (second), or bottom tap.

M10:
Adilloo303
JDennis
Ken Brasier
cajun skeeter
twintrubine
silver - can you just confirm your whole order
ChrisN
Seamus7227
signguy
Bsea
dansills

M12:
Adillo303
JDennis
cajun skeeter
twinturbine
silver - same as above
ChrisN
seamus7227
signguy
Bsea
dansills
Dan Masshardt
mintman

And from here on please specify which type of tap you want. I've also attached the final spread sheet of today. My wife and Brooks803 confirmed the numbers.


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## jyreene

Carl, everything I've ever seen on them either don't state the chamfer or say plug. I would say plug would be the way to go.


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## Carl Fisher

ok, then change me to plug please.  I'll follow your lead :biggrin:


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## Dan Masshardt

12mm plug tap please.


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## JD Combs Sr

Change mine to 12mm double set to include both a bottom and a second tap with the 12mm double die.


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## Ironwood

I am thinking I would like to get into this group buy.
Is there still time for me to add my name to the list ?
Just have to decide if I want both sizes, and I would need mine shipped to Australia if I am in.


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## lwalden

I'd like in on this as well please 

M10 bottoming tap
M10 second tap
M10 die
M12 bottoming tap
M12 second tap 
M12 die

Thank You

Lyle


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## duncsuss

Ironwood said:


> I am thinking I would like to get into this group buy.
> Is there still time for me to add my name to the list ?
> Just have to decide if I want both sizes, and I would need mine shipped to Australia if I am in.



Jump in -- the more the merrier :biggrin:

(but please don't spend too long deciding which ones you want)


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## ChrisN

OK, I'll go with a set of 10s & 12s w/ plug taps.


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## dansills

I'm still in for set each of M10 & M12.  Plug tap works for both taps for me.


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## seamus7227

I would like to update my order to this:

M10 bottoming tap
M10 second tap
M10 die
M12 bottoming tap
M12 second tap 
M12 die


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## JDennis

After reading the different posts, I would like to get an M10 Die with Plug tap, and an M12 Die with Plug Tap.


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## seamus7227

Two questions: are the dies round or hex?
Also, are these made for Ferrous metals?


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## Silver

M 10 
Double taper
Double bottoming
Double die

M12
Double taper
Double bottoming
Double die

For everyone requiring information on taps and die, check this link out below.

Sure it will make it clear for everyone.

File:TapTypes.gif - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## BW Design Works

I'll are  jump in if there is still room. 

M10 set please with a bottom tap
M10 taper tap also please.

This way I'll have both taps. I looked at my other taps that I got on group buys here and like Justin has said they are tapered. Those were all triple start so not sure if that matters or not.


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## Ironwood

OK, I'll put my name down for a M10 set ( plug tap ) 
and a M12 set ( plug tap )
If I understand it correctly, the plug tap has a small taper, we used to call this an intermediate tap.


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## jyreene

Getting closer to starting the timer. Just waiting on:

Signguy
bsea 
Mintman

I'll send them PMs in about two days just in case they are busy.



seamus7227 said:


> Two questions: are the dies round or hex?
> Also, are these made for Ferrous metals?



Finding that info out for you. Should hear back today.



BW Design Works said:


> I'll are  jump in if there is still room.
> 
> M10 set please with a bottom tap
> M10 taper tap also please.
> 
> This way I'll have both taps. I looked at my other taps that I got on group buys here and like Justin has said they are tapered. Those were all triple start so not sure if that matters or not.



Always room.



Ironwood said:


> OK, I'll put my name down for a M10 set ( plug tap )
> and a M12 set ( plug tap )
> If I understand it correctly, the plug tap has a small taper, we used to call this an intermediate tap.



I believe the plug is also called a second and an intermediate. I'm sure there are other names, especially to our overseas friends.


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## MarkD

Is there still room for some of us that jumped on board yesterday?

If there is room for more in this buy I would be interested in:

M10 bottoming tap
M10 second tap
M10 die
M12 bottoming tap
M12 second tap 
M12 die


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## stever521

*I would like these to*

Hi,
I have never done one of these group buy's, but would like in on this one if it is still possible I would like a set of each (M10 and M12) with the bottoming tap for the M12 and M10 sets.

M10-Set, bottom tap
M12-Set, bottom tap
Thanks,

Steve.


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## jyreene

MarkD said:


> Is there still room for some of us that jumped on board yesterday?
> 
> If there is room for more in this buy I would be interested in:
> 
> M10 bottoming tap
> M10 second tap
> M10 die
> M12 bottoming tap
> M12 second tap
> M12 die



Mark, I had you marked down for just that.


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## jyreene

*Today's update*

Hello all,

I've attached today's update. Still waiting:

signguy
bsea
Mintman

Buy is still open for 7 days following their confirmation. I will PM them tomorrow evening to get their confirmation (of wanting or not wanting in).


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## jyreene

seamus7227 said:


> Two questions: are the dies round or hex?
> Also, are these made for Ferrous metals?



They are round adjustable and the material is HSS 60-62 Rockwell. I know the HSS but not the numbers and rockwell. I can look it up but HSS is enough for me.


----------



## Mintman

Ty,  I'd like to also add the m10 tap and die to my m12 set.  I would like both to be plug taps.


----------



## jyreene

Okay, updated the spread sheet to have the counts in it. Thanks Duncan. I always forget to add the A to COUNT.


----------



## MarkD

jyreene said:


> MarkD said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is there still room for some of us that jumped on board yesterday?
> 
> If there is room for more in this buy I would be interested in:
> 
> M10 bottoming tap
> M10 second tap
> M10 die
> M12 bottoming tap
> M12 second tap
> M12 die
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mark, I had you marked down for just that.
Click to expand...


Thanks


----------



## manik

Hi,
I just saw this group buy and would like to get in on it if still available.

I would like the following:
M10 bottoming tap
M10 second tap
M10 die

M12 bottoming tap
M12 second tap 
M12 die

Let me know if I can still get in and I'll Paypal as soon as you want the $'s.
Thanks for all your effort in getting answers for us threading challenged.


----------



## Marker

I am interested in Buying a set of Both the 10m, and the 12m.

   Thanks


----------



## Dan Masshardt

I guess we're going to start seeing boatloads of custom pens.  

Seriously though, it's cool that so many people are interested in taking pen making to this realm.


----------



## jyreene

Last update of today. Still waiting on:

bsea
signguy

of the original.



Marker said:


> I am interested in Buying a set of Both the 10m, and the 12m.
> 
> Thanks



What style tap?

Also waiting on mav (a member from Greece) to chime in with tap style and to post in this thread that he does want them.

I've updated the excel sheet based off a few corrections from PMs and with the new buyers.


----------



## Signguy

Sorry, didn't realize you were waiting on me.

Even after reading back over the entire thread I still have to confess to being somewhat confused about what to get, so I think I will pass for now, and wait until I have a clearer picture of what I want/need.

Thanks!


----------



## beck3906

Just so I can plan appropriately....

Is there a planned close date for this group buy?  Or did I miss it?


----------



## seamus7227

jyreene said:


> They are round adjustable and the material is HSS 60-62 Rockwell. I know the HSS but not the numbers and rockwell. I can look it up but HSS is enough for me.



I think the question I was trying to ask was "what type of metal can these be used on, i.e., stainless, aluminum, brass, copper, titanium, etc., if any". I'm only wondering since my primary use will be for stainless, and titanium. Maybe the steel that these are made from is only good for the softer metals.


----------



## BSea

I also didn't know you were waiting on me.  What do I have to do to confirm?  The spreadsheet shows me for both sets, but I just want the 10MM set. Also, I think I want a plug tap, not the taper tap.


----------



## manojd

I would like to go for the M12 double full set (tap &die).

Thanks.


----------



## Twinturbine

*Make mine a double*

Twinturbine stays with double set of 10 and 12 taper tap. I really believe I will need taper for hard burls/stabilized and metals. Most tapers are not too long for me, just cannot use last 1/8 end plus the taper acts as a slow brake/ hold. I'm not much long on pens but have had a metal lathe all my life, only had a shotgun before.


----------



## jyreene

Marker said:


> I am interested in Buying a set of Both the 10m, and the 12m.
> 
> Thanks



What type of tap?



beck3906 said:


> Just so I can plan appropriately....
> 
> Is there a planned close date for this group buy?  Or did I miss it?



Now that the final two have chimed in the countdown starts. Tuesday, 19 August at 2000 I will close the buy to new parties and begin the final tallies.



seamus7227 said:


> jyreene said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are round adjustable and the material is HSS 60-62 Rockwell. I know the HSS but not the numbers and rockwell. I can look it up but HSS is enough for me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think the question I was trying to ask was "what type of metal can these be used on, i.e., stainless, aluminum, brass, copper, titanium, etc., if any". I'm only wondering since my primary use will be for stainless, and titanium. Maybe the steel that these are made from is only good for the softer metals.
Click to expand...


It all depends on the steel My understanding is if the steel is softer than these you can make it work but you will wear it out faster than on softer stuff like brass and copper. Metals and their hardness are not my expertise but I do understand the hardness part, at least now I do.



BSea said:


> I also didn't know you were waiting on me.  What do I have to do to confirm?  The spreadsheet shows me for both sets, but I just want the 10MM set. Also, I think I want a plug tap, not the taper tap.



No worries. You just confirmed. I have you down for a M10 Plug and Die.



manojd said:


> I would like to go for the M12 double full set (tap &die).
> 
> Thanks.



What type of tap?



Twinturbine said:


> Twinturbine stays with double set of 10 and 12 taper tap. I really believe I will need taper for hard burls/stabilized and metals. Most tapers are not too long for me, just cannot use last 1/8 end plus the taper acts as a slow brake/ hold. I'm not much long on pens but have had a metal lathe all my life, only had a shotgun before.



Confirmed as taper. I am still learning metals and what not and can only use my metal lathe to make things round...for now.



Okay all, the final two have confirmed. Signguy is out but if you want to change your mind you have until this buy is closed. Which is:

Tuesday, 19 August at 2000....or 8:00PM Eastern.


----------



## JDennis

If not to late, can you change my order to just a "Plug" tap and die for each the M10 & M12 sets, cancelling the bottom taps.


----------



## mav

I'd like in on this please.
M10 set(plug tap-die)
M12 set(plug tap-die)


----------



## jyreene

manojd said:


> I would like to go for the M12 double full set (tap &die).
> 
> Thanks.



Please confirm type of tap when you have the time.



JDennis said:


> If not to late, can you change my order to just a "Plug" tap and die for each the M10 & M12 sets, cancelling the bottom taps.



Not too late. Adjusted and removed the bottom tap.



mav said:


> I'd like in on this please.
> M10 set(plug tap-die)
> M12 set(plug tap-die)



Added.

Since we have had so much interest I have asked what the price break would be beyond 24. Once I get their answer I will post it. It could be like the dies and stop at a certain level or it could keep going.


----------



## jyreene

Still waiting on the next level price break quote. Company rep was busy today but did let me know I will get the quote tomorrow. Also, still waiting on manojd to answer what type of tap. PM sent to that individual.


----------



## manojd

manojd said:


> I would like to go for the M12 double full set (tap &die).
> 
> Thanks.



Updating my requirement for clarity:

M12
Bottoming tap
Die


----------



## jyreene

[/quote]

Updating my requirement for clarity:

M12
Bottoming tap
Die[/quote]

Thank you. Spread sheet updated. I should get the quote regarding the next price break today.


----------



## jyreene

Got the next price quote. Last break out is at 72. 

M10s
48 pc   26.55ea
72pc    24.20ea

M12s
48 pc     33.55ea
72pc      31.70ea

So we get a great price break now if we stay above 48 and a bit more on the 72.


----------



## skiprat

Ty, if you don't mind the hassle of international shipping, please can you add me to the list?

I'd like both sizes, dies and taper taps.

Of course, shipping to UK would be extra. Just let me know.:wink:


----------



## Silver

Silver said:


> M 10
> Double taper
> Double bottoming
> Double die
> 
> M12
> Double taper
> Double bottoming
> Double die
> 
> For everyone requiring information on taps and die, check this link out below.
> 
> Sure it will make it clear for everyone.
> 
> File:TapTypes.gif - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Just noticed you have me down for the plug taps on the spread sheet Ty.


----------



## jyreene

Here's the updated spread sheet. I fixed the COUNTA function so that it doesn't include the one who doesn't want in anymore (no big deal just had to move the name to the bottom). As is looks like we qualify for the second to last price break of 48 and would need about 20 more of each for the next one, which is also no big deal because it's only $2 or so. And we already qualify for the biggest die break of 12.

Just a reminder Tuesday the 19th at 8:00PM Eastern the buy closes.


----------



## jyreene

Silver said:


> Silver said:
> 
> 
> 
> M 10
> Double taper
> Double bottoming
> Double die
> 
> M12
> Double taper
> Double bottoming
> Double die
> 
> For everyone requiring information on taps and die, check this link out below.
> 
> Sure it will make it clear for everyone.
> 
> File:TapTypes.gif - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just noticed you have me down for the plug taps on the spread sheet Ty.
Click to expand...


Fixed. Thanks for letting me know!


----------



## skiprat

Ty, I requested Taper taps but you have me down for Plug taps:wink:


Thanks for doing this by the way:biggrin:



This has to be the most popular group buy to date for tooling....I reckon you should give me a commission for suggesting 2 starts in the beginning!!:biggrin:
(kidding of course!!:tongue

BTW, are these Tapco tools?


----------



## jyreene

Fixed! I think I get on auto pilot now that most want plug. You are now down for Taper.

You are most welcome. All of you.

It does seem to be popular. You and I can split the commission! Now let me just find my calculator that can divide by zero.

These are Tapco.


----------



## Donovan

If not to late I would like the following in double start
M10: Tap and a bottoming tap
M10: Die

Donovam


----------



## jyreene

Donovan said:


> If not to late I would like the following in double start M10: Tap and a bottoming tap M10: Die  Donovam



M10 Taper and bottoming tap as well as die?


----------



## southernclay

Hey Ty,

Are these x.75 or x1? I may have missed. I'm pretty uninformed on taps and dies so trying to learn more. I would like to go this direction eventually. 

BTW, great job keeping up with all of this!


----------



## duncsuss

southernclay said:


> Hey Ty,
> 
> Are these x.75 or x1? I may have missed. I'm pretty uninformed on taps and dies so trying to learn more. I would like to go this direction eventually.
> 
> BTW, great job keeping up with all of this!



Yes indeed -- Ty's doing a great job shepherding this group of buyers 

Looking back to the original mention of double-start taps (in the research thread), the M10 was listed as 0.75 pitch and the M12 as 0.8 pitch.

LINK to that post.


----------



## JohnU

If it's not too late I'd like both sizes in dies, bottom and plug taps please.


----------



## jyreene

duncsuss said:


> southernclay said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Ty,
> 
> Are these x.75 or x1? I may have missed. I'm pretty uninformed on taps and dies so trying to learn more. I would like to go this direction eventually.
> 
> BTW, great job keeping up with all of this!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes indeed -- Ty's doing a great job shepherding this group of buyers
> 
> Looking back to the original mention of double-start taps (in the research thread), the M10 was listed as 0.75 pitch and the M12 as 0.8 pitch.
> 
> LINK to that post.
Click to expand...


Beat me to it. Thanks.



JohnU said:


> If it's not too late I'd like both sizes in dies, bottom and plug taps please.



Not too late. Added. 

Here's the updated excel sheet.


----------



## Donovan

Donovan said:


> If not to late I would like the following in double start
> M10: Tap and a bottoming tap
> M10: Die
> 
> Donovam



I see I am not on the list yet

Donovan


----------



## duncsuss

Donovan said:


> Donovan said:
> 
> 
> 
> If not to late I would like the following in double start
> M10: Tap and a bottoming tap
> M10: Die
> 
> Donovam
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I see I am not on the list yet
> 
> Donovan
Click to expand...


Ty will need to know which of these you want --

M10 die + plug tap + bottoming tap

- or -

M10 die + taper tap + bottoming tap


----------



## jyreene

Donovan said:


> Donovan said:
> 
> 
> 
> If not to late I would like the following in double start
> M10: Tap and a bottoming tap
> M10: Die
> 
> Donovam
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I see I am not on the list yet
> 
> Donovan
Click to expand...



What Duncan said. I was unsure what tap besides bottoming you want. I have added you to the list but only under die until I know which two taps you want.


----------



## dansills

Sorry to be a bother but could you please add a bottoming tap in both sizes for me.  Thanks again for doing this!


----------



## jyreene

dansills said:


> Sorry to be a bother but could you please add a bottoming tap in both sizes for me.  Thanks again for doing this!




Added and no bother. Just waiting on Donovan to respond regarding his order. Spread sheet is up to date otherwise.

Just a reminder that the buy closes to orders Tuesday, 19 August at 8:00 PM Eastern.


----------



## toddlajoie

I've been away from the forum for a bit and missed this. I'm thinking of getting in on it, but reading through the whole thread, I'm not !00% certain of the cost with the different types of taps being added and (less an issue) the numbers going up... 

Originally posted:


jyreene said:


> {cut}
> Here is the cost break down at the 12 pc price break:
> M10 double tap
> 34.98
> 
> M10 double die
> 54.58
> 
> M12 double tap
> 42.90
> 
> M12 double die
> 51.33
> 
> M10 double set
> 89.56
> 
> M12 double set
> 94.23
> {cut}



I'm interested in either one or both sizes with die and plug taps, depending on the price with the bigger discount. Sorry for being late to the party and walking in with questions...

Looks like I have until Tuesday to jump the fence, but just in case I misunderstood that and the doors are closing early, put me in for:

M10 Die
M10 Plug Tap

Depending on the above information, and having time to adjust, I may add the M12 in.


----------



## jyreene

toddlajoie said:


> I've been away from the forum for a bit and missed this. I'm thinking of getting in on it, but reading through the whole thread, I'm not !00% certain of the cost with the different types of taps being added and (less an issue) the numbers going up...
> 
> Originally posted:
> 
> 
> jyreene said:
> 
> 
> 
> {cut}
> Here is the cost break down at the 12 pc price break:
> M10 double tap
> 34.98
> 
> M10 double die
> 54.58
> 
> M12 double tap
> 42.90
> 
> M12 double die
> 51.33
> 
> M10 double set
> 89.56
> 
> M12 double set
> 94.23
> {cut}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm interested in either one or both sizes with die and plug taps, depending on the price with the bigger discount. Sorry for being late to the party and walking in with questions...
> 
> Looks like I have until Tuesday to jump the fence, but just in case I misunderstood that and the doors are closing early, put me in for:
> 
> M10 Die
> M10 Plug Tap
> 
> Depending on the above information, and having time to adjust, I may add the M12 in.
Click to expand...


Here is the current break down:

We have more than 12 per size of die but that is the last price break for dies:

[FONT=&quot]M10-75 Double Lead HS 1"OD for $49.00 plus $67.00 tooling charge (split across all the current buyers).
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]M12-.8 Double Lead HS 1"OD for $45.50 plus $70 tooling charge (split across all current buyers).

Taps keeps going. We are currently at 48 plus for each:
[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]M10-.75  double lead 
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]48 pc   26.55ea[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]72pc    24.20ea[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]M12-.8  double lead[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]48 pc     33.55ea[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]72pc      31.70ea

So if you wanted just a set of M10 (one tap only) you would be paying roughly:
One tap: $77.18
Two taps: $103.73
Three taps: $130.28

M12:
One tap: $80.94
Two taps: $114.49
Three taps: $148.04

I've updated the spread sheet to do some rough calculations of price for each person I add. The only real change will come at the next price break (72 taps each size) and a few cents each new person that signs up because of the tooling breakdown.
[/FONT]


----------



## jyreene

toddlajoie I have added you but I updated the sheet with prices before.


----------



## wyone

this is such a HUGE deal..  but I am really new at this. and have not turned a single fountain pen yet, but hope to in the future.  I just have no idea what would be a good starter set for me.  The discount is huge compared to the retail price and I would hate to miss out.  Any suggestions?   Also... isn't a tap needed for the nib?  as you can tell..  TOTAL Newby.  but LOVE pens now.  I will be posting pics in the near future.  I have come a long way in a few weeks, a LOT in due to this organization.  If I am not at work, or turning, or sleeping, I am reading forums.  lol


----------



## jyreene

wyone said:


> this is such a HUGE deal..  but I am really new at this. and have not turned a single fountain pen yet, but hope to in the future.  I just have no idea what would be a good starter set for me.  The discount is huge compared to the retail price and I would hate to miss out.  Any suggestions?   Also... isn't a tap needed for the nib?  as you can tell..  TOTAL Newby.  but LOVE pens now.  I will be posting pics in the near future.  I have come a long way in a few weeks, a LOT in due to this organization.  If I am not at work, or turning, or sleeping, I am reading forums.  lol



They aren't just for fountain pens. I prefer rollerball anyways. I just need to learn how to make my own metal nose cones. Though I've seen many great ones from the material. 

If you want to jump into this you would need more than just the taps and dies. You would need a way to hold the die and a drill chuck. A tap is also needed for the nib unless you go antique style and press and glue it in. These are generally for cap to body but can be used for more. 

I would take a look at the library. There's a good tutorial on kitless that will help you know the wonderful rabbit hole this leads to.


----------



## mikespenturningz

I would like to order full sets
M10 tap/die set
M12 tap/die set


----------



## jyreene

mikespenturningz said:


> I would like to order full sets
> M10 tap/die set
> M12 tap/die set



Mike,

Which type of die?


----------



## mikespenturningz

Isn't it just a double start for both? What other choices are there?


----------



## jyreene

mikespenturningz said:


> Isn't it just a double start for both? What other choices are there?



Yes all are double start but they come in taper, plug and bottom.


----------



## mikespenturningz

Ok that is the tap you are asking about then. 

Taper and bottoming for both..


----------



## jyreene

...yeah...totally what I said. Someone must have "hacked" that last post.


----------



## jyreene

And also spread sheet is updated.


----------



## mikespenturningz

Thanks Ty..


----------



## jyreene

Anytime Mike. I'm pretty sure I lost it long ago.


----------



## elance

Hi Ty,

I would like to order:
M10 plug & bottom tap + die
M12 plug & bottom tap + die

Thank you,
Matthew


----------



## jyreene

elance said:


> Hi Ty,
> 
> I would like to order:
> M10 plug & bottom tap + die
> M12 plug & bottom tap + die
> 
> Thank you,
> Matthew



I added you. Just forgot to attach the updated spread sheet. I'll do so this evening when I get home.


----------



## jyreene

Okay updated. If we get 72 taps for each it's almost like getting a free tap if you are already buying two. No pressure just did some number crunching.


----------



## edstreet

jyreene said:


> Okay updated. If we get 72 taps for each it's almost like getting a free tap if you are already buying two. No pressure just did some number crunching.



Since I was the one who pointed this out to you I figured I would go first.  

Put me down for all 3 taps in both M10 and M12. 

That is:
M10 taper tap, plug tap, bottom tap, die.
M12 taper tap, plug tap, bottom tap, die.

My cost change would be + $17.50 fyi


----------



## Dan Masshardt

jyreene said:


> Okay updated. If we get 72 taps for each it's almost like getting a free tap if you are already buying two. No pressure just did some number crunching.



Ty - if it helps us get there, I'll add another tap to my order.  

For 12mm, switch from plug only to taper and bottoming. 

If it doesn't help...


----------



## its_virgil

I'll do all three.
Put me down for all 3 taps in both M10 and M12. 

That is:
M10 taper tap, plug tap, bottom tap, die.
M12 taper tap, plug tap, bottom tap, die.

Don


----------



## jyreene

Updated. We are now 1 shy on the M10s and 9 shy on the M12s.



Dan Masshardt said:


> jyreene said:
> 
> 
> 
> Okay updated. If we get 72 taps for each it's almost like getting a free tap if you are already buying two. No pressure just did some number crunching.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ty - if it helps us get there, I'll add another tap to my order.
> 
> For 12mm, switch from plug only to taper and bottoming.
> 
> If it doesn't help...
Click to expand...


Dan if we don't make it on the M12 just remind me after the close (I'll post a quick this is what I have while calculating the shipping and what not) and I'll put you back to just the plug.


----------



## jyreene

Also I added one tap of each to mine.


----------



## Karl_99

I would like to jump in on this and order:

M12 die with plug and bottoming taps
M10 die with plug and bottoming taps

Thank you, Karl


----------



## BSea

I'll add the bottom tap for 10mm.


----------



## edstreet

Looks like we jsut broke 72qt for m10, just need 6 more for M12.


----------



## stever521

*add m10 and m12 second/plug taps*

Hi,
I would like to add to my original order one each M10 and M12 second/plug tap please.
This should cover any and all uses.

Thanks,

Steve.


----------



## Cmiles1985

Go ahead and change mine to all three taps in each size please.


----------



## RDH79

Ok Jump my order to all one of everything
That would be 
M10 taper tap, plug tap, bottom tap, die.
M12 taper tap, plug tap, bottom tap, die.
Thank You!!
Rich


----------



## duncsuss

If it takes us over the 72 threshhold, add a bottoming tap in both M10 and M12 to my order (which is second/plug tap plus die in each size).

If we don't hit the 72 threshhold, I'll stick with just the second/plug tap and die in each size.

Thanks!


----------



## wizard

Ty,
If it helps to get to the number/quantity you need , go ahead and add a taper tap to each of my sets of M10 and M12 die, plug and bottoming taps that I have currently ordered.  So it would be:
M10 taper tap, plug tap, bottoming tap, die.
M12 taper tap, plug tap, bottoming tap, die.
Doc


----------



## edstreet

1 more for m12 to hit the 72 mark.


----------



## lwalden

Add an extra to mine as well in the m12...


----------



## edstreet

And that would make 72.  Now Jyreene can close this deal tomorrow.


----------



## seamus7227

Go ahead and add the taper to each set, to my order as well.  

So that would be a 10mm Die and three different taps
And the 12mm Die and three different taps. Hope that makes sense.


----------



## thebillofwrites

What the heck, go ahead and add the third tap for me on both the 10 & 12.

Bill


----------



## MarkD

What the heck, I don't want to be left out. Add a taper tap to each set for me also.


----------



## Docholiday

I'd like to get in here at nearly the zero hour with 
M10 die and plug tap 
And
M12 die and plug tap.  

Thanks to those involved in setting this up. 
Darren.


----------



## beck3906

Me too.

All three taps in M10 and M12.


----------



## Grampy122

*Add a taper tap to each set for me also.*

That would be
M10 taper tap, plug tap, bottom tap, die.
M12 taper tap, plug tap, bottom tap, die.
Thank You!!


----------



## jyreene

*Wow*

Wow, all I did was go to sleep and you all exploded in here! It closes tonight at 8:00PM Eastern.

I've attached our current. I jumped in on the get me everything wagon too.


----------



## Karl_99

Please add the starter taps for M10 & M12 for me, also.

Thanks


----------



## scotian12

I can't miss out on one of the biggest group buys....I'll do all three.
Put me down for all 3 taps in both M10 and M12. 

That is:
M10 taper tap, plug tap, bottom tap, die.
M12 taper tap, plug tap, bottom tap, die.
 Darrell Eisner Scotian12


----------



## Carl Fisher

Is there a benefit to 3 taps or would the plug and bottom tap cover pretty much anything?


----------



## seamus7227

Carl Fisher said:


> Is there a benefit to 3 taps or would the plug and bottom tap cover pretty much anything?


 
i think the benefit is the price difference since there are so many people in this group buy, so it makes the added difference only an extra $17 if i understand it correctly


----------



## Carl Fisher

But I mean functionally.  Would it make more sense for a plug and bottom or taper and bottom if you were to only get 2?


----------



## Carl Fisher

Never mind, I think I answered my own question with a little more research.

Ty, put me down for a bottom tap on each set in addition to the plug tap.  So Die, Plug, and Bottoming of each size for me.


----------



## SteveJ

I'm still on the fence about this buy since I haven't done any kitless pens.  If I read it correctly, the cost of both complete sets of dies and taps is about $180 for the M10 and $200 for the M12.  Is that correct?

This is a great group buy, even if I don't join it!


----------



## magier412

I'm also on the fence...eeek!  I hate to miss out on a good deal though, so please let me know the following so I can jump off the fence and into the water with the rest of y'all  

I've looked at the spreadsheet in some detail, and at the 72 set mark, it looks as follows:

M10 Set:  $123.12
M12 Set:  $142.39
Both:        $265.52 (rounding I expect)

Would you please confirm that this is the right calculation?  If so, please put me in for both and let me know how to pay you.  

Kay


----------



## Dan Masshardt

magier412 said:


> I'm also on the fence...eeek!  I hate to miss out on a good deal though.    Can I get a price on the full sets of three taps and one die in each of the sizes?  I've read all the way through, and I'm totally confused on the current pricing....  Thanks for your help...Kay!



If you're on the fence, why not consider just getting one tap?


----------



## SteveG

This thread is approaching something akin to the 'perpetual motion machine'.  IVO that and in the over all spirit of "Why not?", I make the following change to my order:
Add the m12 version of 2 taps/1 die.

In summary, my revised order is:

M10 -  Plug/Bottom/Die
M12 -  Plug/Bottom/Die

This is my final bid, unless I change it! :biggrin:


----------



## magier412

Dan Masshardt said:


> magier412 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm also on the fence...eeek!  I hate to miss out on a good deal though.    Can I get a price on the full sets of three taps and one die in each of the sizes?  I've read all the way through, and I'm totally confused on the current pricing....  Thanks for your help...Kay!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you're on the fence, why not consider just getting one tap?
Click to expand...


Not a bad idea...which one would be the more universally useful?  I'm just starting kit less pens...wheeeeeeeee!  :big grin:  :tongue:

Thanks!

Kay


----------



## southernclay

I think if you got only one the 12 would make more sense. So the cap could be double start and you could get a less expensive single start for the body which is opened less. If I'm off base someone please correct.


----------



## manik

I hate to do this to you, but after reading what Seamus said and thinking about it, can i add the taper tap in both the M10 and M12 to my order?

I figure if it keeps me from ruining just one high dollar blank its paid for itself.

So I would like all 3 taps and a die for both M10 and M12.

My previous order was for the second and bottom tap and die for the M10 and M12.

If I'm too late I understand.

And thanks again for putting this together.


----------



## magier412

southernclay said:


> I think if you got only one the 12 would make more sense. So the cap could be double start and you could get a less expensive single start for the body which is opened less. If I'm off base someone please correct.



Thanks Warren.  I'm not entirely opposed to getting both, but on the other hand, I'm just starting the kit less pens and don't know what I'm doing (yet) or getting into (happily).  :big grin:

If anyone else has suggestions, I'm totally interested to hear them.

Thanks all!

Kay


----------



## jyreene

SMJ1957 said:


> I'm still on the fence about this buy since I haven't done any kitless pens.  If I read it correctly, the cost of both complete sets of dies and taps is about $180 for the M10 and $200 for the M12.  Is that correct?
> 
> This is a great group buy, even if I don't join it!



We are currently at the final price break. This would be $123.03 for all Taps and a Die for M10 and 142.43 for M12.



magier412 said:


> I'm also on the fence...eeek!  I hate to miss out on a good deal though, so please let me know the following so I can jump off the fence and into the water with the rest of y'all
> 
> I've looked at the spreadsheet in some detail, and at the 72 set mark, it looks as follows:
> 
> M10 Set:  $123.12
> M12 Set:  $142.39
> Both:        $265.52 (rounding I expect)
> 
> Would you please confirm that this is the right calculation?  If so, please put me in for both and let me know how to pay you.
> 
> Kay



That is the right calculation.



magier412 said:


> southernclay said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think if you got only one the 12 would make more sense. So the cap could be double start and you could get a less expensive single start for the body which is opened less. If I'm off base someone please correct.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks Warren.  I'm not entirely opposed to getting both, but on the other hand, I'm just starting the kit less pens and don't know what I'm doing (yet) or getting into (happily).  :big grin:
> 
> If anyone else has suggestions, I'm totally interested to hear them.
> 
> Thanks all!
> 
> Kay
Click to expand...


The M12 double is a good way but you could also just go with singles. You're more than welcome to join but don't feel pressured.

Group buy closes in just over 1 hour. I'm still waiting on Marker to respond to a PM or in the thread to confirm which taps he wants. I've attached the latest spread sheet.

Once it closes there will be no additions or changes so I don't have to keep re-computing. And because it's part of the Group Buy.


----------



## jyreene

Alright the buy is closed to changes. 

I will allow Marker to get back to me by the time I compile the final list with final costs (including shipping) to each person. I will add what I believe to be shipping to me will be based off the 12 pc shipping weight. It will take me a day or two to finish that list up. If Marker cannot get back to me at that time regarding the tap type he wants then I will have to drop him. It won't affect us being over 72. The spread sheet has not changed since my last post.


----------



## Twinturbine

Thanks for your service to all of us, double checking that I am down for both sets in plug taps and dies.


----------



## Carl Fisher

Thanks Ty for your hard work on this.  These group buys (especially with this much participation) aren't easy.


----------



## duncsuss

Double-ditto on the gratitude, Ty.


----------



## jyreene

Thanks all. Today's a busy day at work so I'm glad I said I needed a day or two.  I've gotten it mostly done I just want to double check.


----------



## jyreene

Twinturbine said:


> Thanks for your service to all of us, double checking that I am down for both sets in plug taps and dies.



Post 104 has you down for Taper....


----------



## jyreene

Okay, waiting on one location, dean. I've pm'd him. But until then the paid tab (middle tab) in the spread sheet shows what everyone owes. All us locations were $5.80 using small flat rate box. The one Canadian location was $20.55. And the rest of the overseas were $24.75. All small flat rate boxes. All overseas I put the value at $25. If you are uncomfortable with that let me know and I will adjust the estimated value and shipping costs accordingly. If anyone wants insurance let me know and I will adjust shipping costs accordingly.

My paypal is jyreene@gmail.com

Please use the friends and family (you're all friends anyways) and put your full name and shipping address in the note/memo. 

If you don't want to use Paypal please PM me and we can work out the payment details.

Latest spread sheet attached (of course I lucked out and only had to split the initial shipping with everyone!).


----------



## Jim Burr

Thanks for the tremendous amount of effort this took Ty!!
For some...including me...this may be their first group buy.
Would you be able to toss up some instructions for us to do now...step by step please...we all want to get it right. The above thread is fantastic...any other details?

The stage sir...is yours!!


----------



## jyreene

Also please include screen name in the note.


----------



## jyreene

Jim Burr said:


> Thanks for the tremendous amount of effort this took Ty!! For some...including me...this may be their first group buy. Would you be able to toss up some instructions for us to do now...step by step please...we all want to get it right. The above thread is fantastic...any other details?  The stage sir...is yours!!



A good start is the one in be library but once work slows down I can type and draw something up.


----------



## Monty

PP sent


----------



## JohnU

Thanks!  Paypal Payment sent.


----------



## dansills

*Paid*

PayPal sent. Thanks again for running this buy!


----------



## Cmiles1985

Ppppppppaid!


----------



## edstreet

Paid.   I feel for that poor J&L.


----------



## Karl_99

PP sent.
Thank you


----------



## Adillo303

PP Sent


----------



## scotian12

PP sent. If I owe PP service charge then please let me know amount.  Darrell


----------



## Docholiday

PayPal sent.  Thanks again for all the work put in.


----------



## seamus7227

PayPal sent. Thanks Jyreene


----------



## BSea

PP sent. I've only done 1 thing like this in another forum, and it wasn't nearly this big.  Thanks for doing this.


----------



## JDennis

payment sent

John


----------



## wizard

PayPal payment sent.
*Ty, Thank you so very much for coordinating this buy..!!!
*Regards,
Doc


----------



## BW Design Works

PP sent 

Thanks Ty!!


----------



## thebillofwrites

PayPal sent.

Thanks Ty


----------



## Grampy122

*Great group buy.*

PayPal sent. Thanks again for running this buy! Sent you a PM with name and address.


----------



## duncsuss

Paypal sent ...


----------



## jyreene

If anyone has troubles with PayPal just wait a day. We probably have reached our one day limit. If it continues I'll contact paypal and well go from there. 

Work is busy so I won't be able to be on most of be day. Thanks for your patience.


----------



## elance

PayPal sent, thank you again!


----------



## RDH79

PayPal payment sent
Thank You also for doing this. The next step in making pens has begun.


----------



## Carl Fisher

PP Sent


----------



## toddlajoie

Paid!! Thanks for all the hard work Ty!!! An amazing group buy!!!


----------



## Donovan

Thanks payment sent 

Donovan


----------



## ChrisN

Sent! This is the first purchase of my kitless endeavour!


----------



## JD Combs Sr

Having problems logging into PP.  Gives me the "One Minute" indicator but it is still churning after 5 minutes.:frown:

Edit: Took about 7-8 minutes but PP is now sent.


----------



## Mintman

Thanks Ty!  Paypal sent.


----------



## lwalden

PayPal sent, thanks!


----------



## Ironwood

PayPal sent.
Thanks for going to the trouble to do all this, it must be a big job.


----------



## mav

PayPal send. Thank you for your effort on this buy.
PM for full name and adress.
Best regards


----------



## jyreene

Okay, I've got the spread sheet up to date. We are still waiting on a few payments. That's fine.

Biggest thing is that a few people sent the payment without the screen name and address. A few did PM me that mistake and let me know what their PayPal would say.

Please double check your Paypal and see if you included your screen name and address. If you didn't and have not already PM'd me that information please do so.

Thanks all.


----------



## beck3906

Paypal sent.  Thanks for organizing this.


----------



## Jim Burr

Paypal is not playing nice tonight...try it again in the morning.


----------



## jyreene

Still a few that have paid that I don't know their screen names.



Jim Burr said:


> Paypal is not playing nice tonight...try it again in the morning.



If it doesn't work, I know some have had PayPal problems, send me a PM with your email address and I'll try and send an invoice. See if that works.


----------



## jyreene

Also latest and greatest.


----------



## skiprat

Paypal done. Address and screen name in note
Again, many thanks Ty


----------



## jyreene

Latest and greatest. Did a little sleuthing and managed to figure out a few more of the PayPalers. I think I have them all because the figures on my spread sheet match those in my paypal (the total on my sheet is minus my owed amount for those that dig). 

Still waiting on:

jj9ball
Jim Burr (invoice sent)
Kndallgn
Dan Masshardt
Dean
KenBraiser
cajun skeeter
Twinturbine
stever521
Crashmph
manojd
mikespenturning

Waiting on address for:
RDH79
Seamus7227
bsea
Wizard
JD Combs Sr
BW Design Works
Donovan


----------



## BW Design Works

hmm, thought I included my addy. 

PM sent with it. Sorry Ty.


----------



## wizard

Sorry Ty :redface: ...PM with address sent!
Again, thanks for doing this!
Regards,
Doc


----------



## jyreene

Updated. Got three new addresses.


----------



## Jim Burr

Paypal sent...yipee!


----------



## jyreene

Latest and greatest attached.

Still waiting on payment from:

jj9ball
Kendalgn
Dan Masshardt
Dean
KenBrasier
cajun skeeter
Twinturbine
stever521
Crashmph
manojd
mikespenturningz

and address for (which is not as time sensitive as paymet):
Seamus7227
bsea
Donovan


----------



## Donovan

Sorry here you go. Po Box 1521. Walkerville, Johannesburg, Gauteng,South Africa 1876


----------



## beck3906

Worst case scenario...
What if some or all of the remaining 11 backed out.  What impact would that have on pricing?  How many could back out before the pricing is affected?

Secondly...
How long will you give them to settle up before the order is placed?


----------



## jyreene

beck3906 said:


> Worst case scenario... What if some or all of the remaining 11 backed out.  What impact would that have on pricing?  How many could back out before the pricing is affected?  Secondly... How long will you give them to settle up before the order is placed?



I'd have to calculate it. 

I'm will to wait until I hear from them saying so. Up to a few weeks. I've for proof people paid and addresses. It would be unfair if they didn't have a chance to pay or respond


----------



## seamus7227

I too forgot! PM sent for address


----------



## seamus7227

We need a feature on the forum like Facebook has when you tag someone they get notified


----------



## beck3906

Hmmmm....
Not sure about the comment to possibly wait weeks for everyone to pay up.


----------



## jyreene

beck3906 said:


> Hmmmm.... Not sure about the comment to possibly wait weeks for everyone to pay up.



The thing is, I'm not in a rush and would prefer to give them a chance. Come Tuesday I'll send PMs and go from there. Either way it will likely take the company a few weeks to finish the order anyways.


----------



## skiprat

I've been checking my letterbox every hour since I paid, but they're not here yet.:frown:...oh well, I'm sure they'll be on the doormat when I wake up in the morning...:biggrin:


----------



## jyreene

skiprat said:


> I've been checking my letterbox every hour since I paid, but they're not here yet.:frown:...oh well, I'm sure they'll be on the doormat when I wake up in the morning...:biggrin:



Their taking the slow boat. Apparently the queen is still angry about some tea or something!


----------



## jyreene

Got one more payment and two addresses.

Still waiting on payment from:

jj9ball
Kendalgn
Dean
KenBrasier
cajun skeeter
Twinturbine
stever521
Crashmph
manojd
mikespenturningz

and address for (which is not as time sensitive as paymet):
bsea

Tomorrow after work I'll shoot all of them a PM regarding payment just in case.


----------



## jyreene

Still waiting in the same ones. But I got Bsea's address. 

I contacted Tapco and they said it should take about 3 weeks give or take to finish the order once it's placed. Plus shipping to me. The shipping to you all. But then won't let me add anything to the order because it will be a contracted amount. I'm okay with waiting a little longer, one week, and next Tuesday doing the final tally and starting the contract. 

It's a big buy so I expect some delays but they are at least making sure they have the materials on hand to get our order done. 

Also I'm pretty busy at work and home for a few weeks so I will likely only be able to get in here in the AM and late PM to give updates.


----------



## mikespenturningz

I didn't know that it was finished sorry. I will pay this afternoon when I get home from work...


----------



## jyreene

mikespenturningz said:


> I didn't know that it was finished sorry. I will pay this afternoon when I get home from work...



No worries Mike. You would have gotten a PM tonight in either case. And not seeing these or knowing it's closed is why I'm not in a rush and why I said I would send PMs.


----------



## jyreene

PMs sent.


----------



## Kendallqn

I didn't realize and was waiting as well. And I wasn't watching the thread. Was waiting on a PM with the total.  My Bad Payment made!!


----------



## mikespenturningz

Paid with PP to jyreene@gmail.com


----------



## jyreene

Got a few more. Latest spread sheet attached. Still waiting on:

jj9ball
Dean
cajun skeeter
Twinturbine
stever521
Crashmph
manojd



Kendallqn said:


> I didn't realize and was waiting as well. And I wasn't watching the thread. Was waiting on a PM with the total.  My Bad Payment made!!



No worries!


----------



## jyreene

*Three to go*

Updated version attached. Just three to go:

jj9ball
Dean
cajun skeeter


----------



## jyreene

Two left:

Dean
cajun skeeter


----------



## jyreene

Just dean to go.


----------



## seamus7227

with Dean's track record, this may take a while. only 8 posts since 2011, so he doesnt appear to be on here very much, may not even know how to send PM's. It also doesnt appear that his account is set up properly with a name and location


----------



## jyreene

seamus7227 said:


> with Dean's track record, this may take a while. only 8 posts since 2011, so he doesnt appear to be on here very much, may not even know how to send PM's. It also doesnt appear that his account is set up properly with a name and location



Maybe. He did respond to a PM I sent him last week so I could calculate his total for shipping. He had until Tuesday night since that's when I'll email the company and do the official order. Though I guess technically he could get the payment in after that because I'll likely only be able to email them later at night.


----------



## jyreene

*Updated Spread Sheet and Bash*

I've attached the updated spread sheet. Those that have opened and kept tabs will notice not only do we only have the one left to pay but I've added a "buyer". Basically what I did was downgrade myself to one tap and die of each set instead of two taps and dies and roller that money into the new "buyer". 

Many have suggested that it would be a good idea, I think all have been PM and other methods, to get a tap and die set for a bash gift. Well I'm doing just that.


----------



## 1080Wayne

Obviously I`ve been asleep on this thread , and didn`t realize the switch to doubles . If you can add a set of each to the order , I will take . Shipping to Canada . Will Paypal .

Incidentally , the original El Grande`s  were double start .


----------



## jyreene

1080Wayne said:


> Obviously I`ve been asleep on this thread , and didn`t realize the switch to doubles . If you can add a set of each to the order , I will take . Shipping to Canada . Will Paypal .
> 
> Incidentally , the original El Grande`s  were double start .



I'm going to have to say no at the moment because it would mean I have to open it to everyone on the site again. However I will ask a question of the group regarding this; if Dean does not respond by Tuesday evening how does everyone feel about 1080Wayne taking his place in the group buy? Assuming he would PayPal that evening.


----------



## duncsuss

As far as I'm concerned, you are the group buy organizer and have the right to make decisions like this without consulting me.

(Meaning -- I'd be okay if you choose to allow 1080Wayne to take over Dean's booking, completely at your discretion and on whatever terms you're happy with  when it comes to payment, etc.)


----------



## jyreene

And we have all payments. It's Labor Day weekend so I can't do anything until Tuesday. I've decided to let Wayne in on it but he needs to have payment to me by tomorrow night.


----------



## duncsuss

jyreene said:


> And we have all payments. It's Labor Day weekend so I can't do anything until Tuesday. I've decided to let Wayne in on it but he needs to have payment to me by tomorrow night.



Another major milestone -- I reckon this warrants some cake :cake:

:biggrin:


----------



## jyreene

Mmm cake.


----------



## jyreene

Also I just wanted to add that with the prices this low anyone else can add a bash prize too. Or put in some extra for one. Each new level will be another set I would add. Anything that doesn't add up would be donated to IAP.


----------



## jyreene

*Bash Donations*

All paid up including 1080Wayne. Dean is on the road right now so I'll get his address when he gets a chance.

That said, a I mentioned before, I will now open to any members that want to make a bash donation (to buy taps and dies for Bash prizes) only. No new members. Spread the word.


----------



## jyreene

All - I had a pretty catastrophic email failure. Gmail, first time it's failed me. If you emailed me your address I will need it again. I'm trying to recover everything but I don't know if I can.


----------



## jyreene

I will be unable to recover those items.


----------



## jyreene

I might have figured a small work around. Still lost almost all my info but I managed to turn off my cell signal and use the email on there. It seems to have saved some of the address but I don't know if I got them all. 

I'll start compiling a separate spread sheet that I won't post of addresses and will go from there.


----------



## jyreene

Okay, looks like via my trick, paypal, and PMs I'm good on addresses (other than waiting for Dean but he's paid so the address isn't a priority).


----------



## duncsuss

jyreene said:


> ... I managed to turn off my cell signal and use the email on there. It seems to have saved some of the address but I don't know if I got them all.



Good thinking 

It probably wouldn't work for me, I use my phone for email so rarely that it's often months behind on downloading a copy of the stuff online -- but this is the best reason I've heard to keep it more up to date. Thanks!


----------



## jyreene

Put in the final numbers to Tapco. She's working up the confirmation cost quote and will email it. Once I verify they'll begin work.


----------



## wyone

I didnt get in on this buy... mostly because I am so new to pen turning and have so much to learn as it is without adding this to the mix, but have to say, you guys are awesome to do this.


----------



## jyreene

Looks like the expected ship to me date is September 26.


----------



## skiprat

jyreene said:


> Looks like the expected ship to me date is September 26.



Cool, I'll make sure I'm home on the  27th, to make sure I don't miss the postman.....


----------



## jyreene

skiprat said:


> Cool, I'll make sure I'm home on the  27th, to make sure I don't miss the postman.....



I'll get cracking on my teleported so I can get it there in time!!!


----------



## jyreene

No new updates just a quick everything is still on track.


----------



## jyreene

Small update. The order is almost completed. Waiting in a few dies and what not. Expected to ship to me at the end of next week. Only one week behind the original estimated date. I'll post any new updates as I get them.


----------



## mikespenturningz

Cool thanks Ty for posting all of these updates and keeping us informed on where things are at.


----------



## jyreene

Payment made. Should ship to me today or tomorrow. Once I get them I confirm I have all the orders. Then box them up and start shipping them. 

Just a reminder they are going out in small flat rate boxes. And no one requested insurance on them. I'm still willing to insure but that would require extra money so let me know.


----------



## ChrisN

:highfive::bananen_smilies039:arty:


----------



## edstreet




----------



## Jim Burr

Ed...is that what you received or a representation...looks good!!


----------



## ChrisN

Hey, how come Ed has his already! That's not fair! :biggrin:


----------



## jyreene

He sent them some threads to check and asked me if it was okay to get his stuff all sent back together. He had a smaller shipment so he got his stuff. 

The rest is on the way to me now but it is a bigger box (and Augusta mail is really slow for some reason). 

And as I said that UPS just dropped off the box. My wife will help me package everything up and I will get things out during the next week. 

I'll PM everyone their tracking number.


----------



## Dan Masshardt

Jim Burr said:


> Ed...is that what you received or a representation...looks good!!



He paid extra to have his special coated and stuff.   I don't think ours will look quite the same as far as the finish goes.


----------



## jyreene

Dan Masshardt said:


> He paid extra to have his special coated and stuff.   I don't think ours will look quite the same as far as the finish goes.



That too!


----------



## edstreet

Jim Burr said:


> Ed...is that what you received or a representation...looks good!!



Actual thing.  What everyone will receive is the same item except the Titanium treatment.








ChrisN said:


> Hey, how come Ed has his already! That's not fair! :biggrin:



Because 3 reasons:

1) I had threads I sent up to get analyzed:  CSUSA Gent Jr, Dayacom Emperor Jr, Atrax and a Sedona.  Cap threads and front end assembly.

2) I was getting my M12 x 0.8 triple start tap and die set reworked, cleaned up, tuned and PVD treated.

3) I was wanting all of my stuff treated and there's no sense in getting the 8 items and shipping them back to Tapco to be PVD treated, just wasted expense.

I was shopping around looking for PVD treatment services and discovered that Tapco does PVD treatment (most tooling companies are unable to treat dies).  They also came in cheaper than most others and at that point it was a no brainer.



Dan Masshardt said:


> He paid extra to have his special coated and stuff.   I don't think ours will look quite the same as far as the finish goes.








Yes extra.  This was in addition to the $278 from the group buy.

..and stuff..


----------



## Carl Fisher

If anyone is interested, I will probably be parting with my 10mm set from the group buy.  I really don't need it but was helping get the buy count up and since I DO need the 12 I just ordered both.

If I recall, I have the die and 2 taps.


----------



## jyreene

Carl Fisher said:


> If anyone is interested, I will probably be parting with my 10mm set from the group buy.  I really don't need it but was helping get the buy count up and since I DO need the 12 I just ordered both.  If I recall, I have the die and 2 taps.



Lorbay contacted me about just something like this for a bash prize. Hit him up.


----------



## manojd

Tyson,

Please do contact me before shipping. I want to use Priority mail international so that I can track it.

Thanks.

Manojd


----------



## jyreene

manojd said:


> Tyson,  Please do contact me before shipping. I want to use Priority mail international so that I can track it.  Thanks.  Manojd



Ok Manojd

I will get a quote for that and let you know the difference. 

Ty


----------



## edstreet

M10 tap drill size is 23/64. 
M10 die tenon size is 25/64.
-=>3 full rotations in 1/4" of threads.

M12 tap drill size is 7/16.
M12 die tenon size is 15/32.


----------



## ChrisN

edstreet said:


> M10 tap drill size is 23/64.
> M10 die tenon size is 25/64.
> -=>3 full rotations in 1/4" of threads.
> 
> M12 tap drill size is 7/16.
> M12 die tenon size is 15/32.



Thanks for the info, Ed!


----------



## jyreene

Manojd et all,

All boxes are priority small flat rate. Even the international ones. All will have a tracking number.


----------



## Jim Burr

edstreet said:


> M10 tap drill size is 23/64.
> M10 die tenon size is 25/64.
> -=>3 full rotations in 1/4" of threads.
> 
> M12 tap drill size is 7/16.
> M12 die tenon size is 15/32.



Perfect....thanks Ed!!


----------



## Jim Burr

edstreet said:


> M10 tap drill size is 23/64.
> M10 die tenon size is 25/64.
> -=>3 full rotations in 1/4" of threads.
> 
> M12 tap drill size is 7/16.
> M12 die tenon size is 15/32.



Perfect....thanks Ed!!
Guess I can ditch the single start set.


----------



## jyreene

Boxing is done. Entering the shipping labels is almost half done. Taking a break for dinner. 

Also a huge thanks and lots of appreciation go to my wife for helping with the heavy lifting, boxing, entering in addresses, printing labels, and driving me tomorrow to the post office.


----------



## Cmiles1985

jyreene said:


> Boxing is done. Entering the shipping labels is almost half done. Taking a break for dinner.
> 
> Also a huge thanks and lots of appreciation go to my wife for helping with the heavy lifting, boxing, entering in addresses, printing labels, and driving me tomorrow to the post office.



Yes, a big thanks to you and your wife for the effort going into this GB. I would venture to guess that it is probably one of the largest in IAP's history.

Thanks Ed for posting tenon and drill sizes. Very helpful!


----------



## Carl Fisher

jyreene said:


> Boxing is done. Entering the shipping labels is almost half done. Taking a break for dinner.
> 
> Also a huge thanks and lots of appreciation go to my wife for helping with the heavy lifting, boxing, entering in addresses, printing labels, and driving me tomorrow to the post office.



Thank you Tyson and thank you Amanda.  Tell her I know she's doing all the hard work anyway with your broken toe :biggrin:


----------



## jyreene

Carl Fisher said:


> jyreene said:
> 
> 
> 
> Boxing is done. Entering the shipping labels is almost half done. Taking a break for dinner.
> 
> Also a huge thanks and lots of appreciation go to my wife for helping with the heavy lifting, boxing, entering in addresses, printing labels, and driving me tomorrow to the post office.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you Tyson and thank you Amanda.  Tell her I know she's doing all the hard work anyway with your broken toe :biggrin:
Click to expand...


Ha! It's not even the toe that is requiring me to not lift the bigger stuff!


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## jyreene

All boxes are packed and awaiting USPS pickup (minus the one that wanted me to wait until he got back from a trip). When I get home this evening I will post the excel sheet with tracking numbers.


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## edstreet

For privacy and security reasons you should not post those public.  Instead do a pm.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


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## jyreene

Fair enough. For anyone that wants their tracking number please PM me and I will reply with your tracking number.


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## thebillofwrites

Excellent!

Thanks for all your efforts Ty


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## BSea

Thanks again for doing this.  I don't need my tracking.  If I don't have it in a week from the date you send it, then I'l ask for it. But no sense in going through all the trouble of individual PM's.


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## seamus7227

Thank you! Cant wait, just one more toy to add to my arsenal!!


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## BSea

WOW, that was quick.  My package arrived today. 

Thanks again for going above & beyond. :good:


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## Grampy122

*I got them.*

My package arrived today.

Thanks again for all the work you and Amanda did on this huge group buy. They look really great, can't wait to give them a try.


----------



## JD Combs Sr

My package of confetti...er I mean my tape&die set arrived today. 

Thanks to you and your helper for going above & beyond on this GB.


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## edstreet

Please do not forget to use proper fluid with these and be very certain to do a good and proper break in on the die's before production use.


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## Carl Fisher

Received my box of confetti today!  Thanks Tyson (and Amanda)


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## jyreene

Glad they're coming in. I'll get the tracking numbers out to those that asked later tonight.


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## Dan Masshardt

Got mine today.  Thanks.


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## skiprat

edstreet said:


> Please do not forget to use proper fluid with these and be very certain to do a good and proper break in on the die's before production use.



Using proper cutting fluid for the material is a given, but please can you expand on the 'breaking in' of the dies?


----------



## MikeL

I received my order today. Thanks for the huge effort. It is greatly appreciated.


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## BSea

skiprat said:


> edstreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> Please do not forget to use proper fluid with these and be very certain to do a good and proper break in on the die's before production use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using proper cutting fluid for the material is a given, but please can you expand on the 'breaking in' of the dies?
Click to expand...

Yes, please let us know.  I've never done anything special as far as a break in on dies in the past.  If there is something that will prolong the life, or prevent damage, that would be a helpful tip.


----------



## edstreet

skiprat said:


> edstreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> Please do not forget to use proper fluid with these and be very certain to do a good and proper break in on the die's before production use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using proper cutting fluid for the material is a given, but please can you expand on the 'breaking in' of the dies?
Click to expand...



Sure, break in period will determine the lifespan of the item and help prolong the lifespan.  

Since Die's are unable to be resharpened to any substantial degree once they are gone they are gone. A tap is different as it can be resharpened.  Also the convex vs concave surface makes a difference.

Same reason you would strop a cutting edge after sharpening it.  By a proper break in you will essentially hone the cutting edges and provide for a longer lifetime.  

This time also allows you to map the personality of the die on how it performs and where the pitfalls are at.


----------



## duncsuss

BSea said:


> skiprat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edstreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> Please do not forget to use proper fluid with these and be very certain to do a good and proper break in on the die's before production use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using proper cutting fluid for the material is a given, but please can you expand on the 'breaking in' of the dies?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, please let us know.  I've never done anything special as far as a break in on dies in the past.  If there is something that will prolong the life, or prevent damage, that would be a helpful tip.
Click to expand...


And does "proper fluid" mean something other than vegetable oil spray (e.g., Pam)?


----------



## jyreene

duncsuss said:


> And does "proper fluid" mean something other than vegetable oil spray (e.g., Pam)?



Personally, I use the blood of my enemies. Makes my pens more powerful.


----------



## Jim Burr

jyreene said:


> duncsuss said:
> 
> 
> 
> And does "proper fluid" mean something other than vegetable oil spray (e.g., Pam)?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Personally, I use the blood of my enemies. Makes my pens more powerful.
Click to expand...


Having many here...mine should last a lifetime!! Rec'd 10 minutes ago...Thanks Ty...job well done.


----------



## BSea

edstreet said:


> skiprat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edstreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> Please do not forget to use proper fluid with these and be very certain to do a good and proper break in on the die's before production use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using proper cutting fluid for the material is a given, but please can you expand on the 'breaking in' of the dies?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, break in period will determine the lifespan of the item and help prolong the lifespan.
> 
> Since Die's are unable to be resharpened to any substantial degree once they are gone they are gone. A tap is different as it can be resharpened.  Also the convex vs concave surface makes a difference.
> 
> Same reason you would strop a cutting edge after sharpening it.  By a proper break in you will essentially hone the cutting edges and provide for a longer lifetime.
> 
> This time also allows you to map the personality of the die on how it performs and where the pitfalls are at.
Click to expand...

I guess I'm a little slow.  Exactly *how* do you break in a die?  Do you cut soft metal?  Or only something like alumilite?  I understand that you're saying to break it in.  But how exactly?


----------



## edstreet

BSea said:


> edstreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> skiprat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edstreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> Please do not forget to use proper fluid with these and be very certain to do a good and proper break in on the die's before production use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using proper cutting fluid for the material is a given, but please can you expand on the 'breaking in' of the dies?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, break in period will determine the lifespan of the item and help prolong the lifespan.
> 
> Since Die's are unable to be resharpened to any substantial degree once they are gone they are gone. A tap is different as it can be resharpened.  Also the convex vs concave surface makes a difference.
> 
> Same reason you would strop a cutting edge after sharpening it.  By a proper break in you will essentially hone the cutting edges and provide for a longer lifetime.
> 
> This time also allows you to map the personality of the die on how it performs and where the pitfalls are at.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I guess I'm a little slow.  Exactly *how* do you break in a die?  Do you cut soft metal?  Or only something like alumilite?  I understand that you're saying to break it in.  But how exactly?
Click to expand...



A new die will have burrs, for the first dozen or 2 cuts you will notice some slight shifting of those burrs.  In the break in period you are essentially burnishing the cutting surface into a final shape.

This is like buying a new pair of shoes and you have a break in period.  Same with clothing, vehicles, motors, equipment and the like.  Cutting some materials, i.e. softer materials, you may see a wider variance in that window period.








Good break in you do want something softer so that the burrs will move and not be chipped off, if you are using super hard material they are more apt to chip and form craters.  

On that note good ample fluid that is suited for the material being used really helps.  Also not all fluid is the same as each material can/will require a different type of fluid.


----------



## BW Design Works

Got mine today :biggrin:

Thanks Ty!!!


----------



## Silver

edstreet said:


> Sure, break in period will determine the lifespan of the item and help prolong the lifespan.
> 
> Since Die's are unable to be resharpened to any substantial degree once they are gone they are gone. A tap is different as it can be resharpened.  Also the convex vs concave surface makes a difference.
> 
> Same reason you would strop a cutting edge after sharpening it.  By a proper break in you will essentially hone the cutting edges and provide for a longer lifetime
> 
> A new die will have burrs, for the first dozen or 2 cuts you will notice some slight shifting of those burrs.  In the break in period you are essentially burnishing the cutting surface into a final shape.
> 
> This is like buying a new pair of shoes and you have a break in period.  Same with clothing, vehicles, motors, equipment and the like.  Cutting some materials, i.e. softer materials, you may see a wider variance in that window period.
> 
> Good break in you do want something softer so that the burrs will move and not be chipped off, if you are using super hard material they are more apt to chip and form craters.
> 
> On that note good ample fluid that is suited for the material being used really helps.  Also not all fluid is the same as each material can/will require a different type of fluid.



Ed,

I see it's worth harnessing your expertise in to a tutorial or a separate thread on this subject alone as if it needs so many different cutting fluids for different materials then your skills and knowledge would be appreciated.

Breaking in periods on what type of materials and specifics for taps and dies would be appreciated..

As for blood,, used my own too many times so I think I will skip that one..
Thanks.


----------



## Monty

BW Design Works said:


> Got mine today :biggrin:
> 
> Thanks Ty!!!


Mine arrived yesterday also.


----------



## Crashmph

Got mine yesterday!


----------



## ChrisN

Got my confetti yesterday, too! Thanks for all your work in making this happen!


----------



## seamus7227

mine also arrived yesterday. I am debating sending back to Tapco to get Titanium coated. I was under the impression all of them were going to done that way. I suppose i should learn to read next time.LOL 

Thanks again for spearheading this group buy Ty


----------



## jyreene

seamus7227 said:


> mine also arrived yesterday. I am debating sending back to Tapco to get Titanium coated. I was under the impression all of them were going to done that way. I suppose i should learn to read next time.LOL  Thanks again for spearheading this group buy Ty



Probably partly my fault too. I learned about it after the buy was done but right as I put be order in. I didn't want I delay the bug anymore seeing who wanted to get a coating.


----------



## seamus7227

Its all good.


----------



## edstreet

jyreene said:


> seamus7227 said:
> 
> 
> 
> mine also arrived yesterday. I am debating sending back to Tapco to get Titanium coated. I was under the impression all of them were going to done that way. I suppose i should learn to read next time.LOL  Thanks again for spearheading this group buy Ty
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Probably partly my fault too. I learned about it after the buy was done but right as I put be order in. I didn't want I delay the bug anymore seeing who wanted to get a coating.
Click to expand...


The blame would be all mine.  I did not want to further confuse or delay things and I chose not to mention the treatment as we would likely still be debating the process and not have the order ready.

Treatment does several things:
1) prolongs the lifespan of the cutting edge by 2x to 3x the life.
2) since die's are unable to be resharpened once they are gone they are gone.
3) Taps can be resharpened and that prolongs their life greatly. They shave the grooves and that makes the lands more narrow but still functional.
3) treated tap/dies cut smoother, cleaner and less heat; also less energy needed to use them.
4) treatment will allow you to cut harder/stronger material.
5) threading into some materials titanium is not the best method but there are other treatments available.
6) many/most tool companies are unable to treat dies since it's a concave surface area.  Tapco was able to treat them as they use a PVD process.  Also they came in cheaper, other co's ask $25 per item to treat vs Tapco's $9.15 per item.

At $9.15 per item to treat (price varies to) and considering the dies were $45 and $49 each and to get double the life it seems that *ALL* special order dies like this *SHOULD* be treated.

Taps it is also good to treat them


----------



## beck3906

Not everyone would want the added cost of the coating.  We ca make individual decisions if we want to return them for coating.


----------



## BSea

Ed, thanks for the explanation about breaking in the dies.


----------



## duncsuss

BSea said:


> Ed, thanks for the explanation about breaking in the dies.



+1

Question: would it make sense to break in the dies before having them treated? I'm thinking there's no point hardening the sprue (or whatever it's called) that you actually want to remove from the brand new die.


----------



## edstreet

It's not being removed, it is being re shaped. Over time the coating will wear off then it could be re treated. 

Like a new vehicle the oil is more dirty than an old used vehicle. Parts are still wearing and lots of particles comes out into the oil.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


----------



## lwalden

Got mine today- Woo-Hoo!! Thanks for doing this!


----------



## duncsuss

Mine arrived, thanks Ty -- I'm fully booked the next few weekends, but I hope to get a chance to start using them soon!


----------



## thebillofwrites

Just got mine today, look great.

Thanks again Ty!

Bill


----------



## Cmiles1985

Mine showed up!...a couple of days ago. I'm happy with them, and now they get to be stored away until I take on learning kitless pen making.

Thanks again for hosting the GB Ty!


----------



## edstreet

Tap and dies are really simple things to use and not that complicated or difficult.  The hardest part is when you are designing threads and that part is out of the way.  The hardest part is what was mentioned earlier with the fluid needed.  Good attention to details will net you threads like this. (Ebonite and Brass)











This is also not specific to 'kitless' (whatever that means)


----------



## beck3906

Got mine.  Thanks again.


----------



## skiprat

Mine have arrived too !!:biggrin: Many thanks Ty !!:wink:


----------



## 1080Wayne

Got mine yesterday . Thank you


----------



## Ironwood

Mine arrived in the mailbox, thanks Ty.


----------



## Silver

Mine arrived today.. 

Top marks Ty. 

Thanks for everything and all you and your dearly beloved has done to help..

Much appreciated.

Great GB and really well organised. Glad I could be part of it..

Disappointingly a skip in Wales must have had priority mail..


----------



## jyreene

Silver said:


> Mine arrived today..  Top marks Ty.  Thanks for everything and all you and your dearly beloved has done to help..  Much appreciated.  Great GB and really well organised. Glad I could be part of it..  Disappointingly a skip in Wales must have had priority mail.. 



Not priority mail.  I was only able to make the teleported work once!


----------



## scotian12

Thank you very much Ty. I received mine yesterday. The GB was well organized.


----------



## Donovan

I still do not have mine but it is due to the postal strike in South Africa. Almost all the post offices has been closed for more than a month.


----------



## jyreene

Donovan said:


> I still do not have mine but it is due to the postal strike in South Africa. Almost all the post offices has been closed for more than a month.



I wish I would have known that. I would have held them until you have me to go ahead.


----------



## Mintman

I received mine today.  Thanks Ty!


----------



## manojd

Received my M12 set yesterday. 

Thank you Tyson.


----------



## KenBrasier

Got mine, Thank You.  Well Done!


----------



## mav

I received mine yesterday. Thanks again Ty and "helper"!


----------



## Twinturbine

*got it*

Thanks a lot for the nice service. RCX mine several days ago and will try my first project soon. am trying to stabilise snakewood different ways to prevent the splits.


----------



## jyreene

Anyone not received theirs yet? I know Donovan is still waiting. I will run the tracking numbers later to check. After family leaves town.


----------



## RDH79

*Die holder*

I have searched and found alot of different die holders for the dies I bought.
Do you recommend the simple hand held or buying the tailstock one?
The one for the tail stock are rather expencive but if they are better thats the way I will go.
Let me know what your opinion is.
Thanks
Rich


----------



## BSea

Here's what I use: Die Holder 2314 - LittleMachineShop.com


----------



## duncsuss

RDH79 said:


> I have searched and found alot of different die holders for the dies I bought.
> Do you recommend the simple hand held or buying the tailstock one?
> The one for the tail stock are rather expencive but if they are better thats the way I will go.
> Let me know what your opinion is.
> Thanks
> Rich



My opinion is based on how easy it is to completely destroy a tenon I'm trying to thread by hand-holding the die.

Just a couple of degrees out of square (in any direction -- left/right, up/down, and all points between) and the threads start out wrong and it screeches to a halt a couple of turns in.

Or I've managed to thread a part correctly, then want to chase it one last time to smooth the surface ... the die goes on cross threaded ... 

The die holders I use were made by a former member here, a steel rod gripped in a Jacobs chuck in the tailstock and a machined delrin bar that slides on the rod, with a recess to hold a die at each end. Not cheap, but worth it to me.


----------



## lorbay

duncsuss said:


> RDH79 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have searched and found alot of different die holders for the dies I bought.
> Do you recommend the simple hand held or buying the tailstock one?
> The one for the tail stock are rather expencive but if they are better thats the way I will go.
> Let me know what your opinion is.
> Thanks
> Rich
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My opinion is based on how easy it is to completely destroy a tenon I'm trying to thread by hand-holding the die.
> 
> Just a couple of degrees out of square (in any direction -- left/right, up/down, and all points between) and the threads start out wrong and it screeches to a halt a couple of turns in.
> 
> Or I've managed to thread a part correctly, then want to chase it one last time to smooth the surface ... the die goes on cross threaded ...
> 
> The die holders I use were made by a former member here, a steel rod gripped in a Jacobs chuck in the tailstock and a machined delrin bar that slides on the rod, with a recess to hold a die at each end. Not cheap, but worth it to me.
Click to expand...

Yup have a set of these myself.
Lin.


----------



## Curly

I bought steel die holders along the same lines as the Delrin holder from Victor. They are cheap enough to have one for each die you use for a pen. To use one I put a transfer punch in the tailstock that fits the hollow shank of the die and offer it to the part you want to thread. Plastics can easily be threaded by hand, metals would need a mechanical advantage applied.


----------



## RDH79

Great Information. I will have to do some calclating. Curly  I do like that idea with individual holders. But I think I am just looking to make 2 different sizes for now.

Thanks for the responce.
Rich


----------

