# Tap and Dies for Kitless Pens  A Guide



## mredburn (May 11, 2013)

Common Cap threads -single lead
m14 x1
m13x1
m12 x.75
m10 x.75

Common Cap threads -triple leads
m14 x .8
m12 x.75
m10 x.75

Nose cone/ front section threads -single lead
m10 x1
m10x.75
m9x.75
m8.4 x1

Nib/feed assembly threads 
Bock  (classicnibs.com) German made
#5- 6.4x.6
#6- 7.9 x.6
Jowo (meisternib.com) German made
#5- 6.5 x.5
#6- 7.5 x.5

Heritance (discontinued)
#5 -6.5 x.5
#6 -8.4 x.75

El Grande kit front ends m10 x1
Baron/ Sedona/ navigater etc front ends 8.4 x1 or 8.5 x1 Either will do.

Most common metric and imperial tap and die sets will not work well for making pens. Not that you cant make a pen using taps and dies from the sets but they are very coarse next to the threads commonly used. I dont recommend buying a set for pen making. Just buy the sizes you need as you need them. Triple lead taps for the pens are expensive and I dont recomend you run out and buy one until you have made a few pens and decide that you want or need to make caps with 3 leads. Lots of great pens are made with single threads for the cap.

This is a general guide not a strict "you have to do it this way" sort of thing.
Some of the techniques needed you will have to figure out yourself.

 We will be using metric threads. You can use any threads that you want but the metric sizes are more widely used in pen making and easier to find in the finer sizes. Your choice or sizes will depend on the design of the  pen. You will first need to design your pen and from that you can determine which tap/dies will work. 

There are many variables to making kitless pens and from here you can refine your techniques and skills and decide which sizes best suit you.
We will start with making a  Roller Ball pen
There are 2 main areas that need  a tap and or die to make a roller ball. Threads for the inside of the cap, the matching threads for the pen body and the threads  for the nose cone both male and female. 

You will need 
m12 x .75 tap/set
m9 x .75 tap/die set
7/16 drill bit
21/64 drill bit
drill bits to make the holes for the refill to fit in. 1/4, 3/16 and #37 will work.
A tap guide and a Die holder are essential for making straight threads.

We will be using the Jr series sizes for this example. THe upper cap will be somewhere around .565 to .600 and the pen body around .485 to .513
We will use the m12x.75 single tap and die for the cap threads and the m9x.75 for the nose cone threads.  

The general rule of thumb is to cut the tenons for the male threads about .2mm smaller than the thread size your going to cut. For a m12 thread size that would be the equivalent of 11.8mm (.465) the drill size is determined by the subtracting the pitch from the desired thread size. Or 12mm - .75=11.25mm  I generally make a hole slightly larger than the exact size say 11.3 to 11.4.  Why? Because taps/dies are made to cut about 75% of the threads and cheap sets are less. Also if you haven't noticed on kit pens the fit at the threads are generally pretty sloppy.  For the m12 tap I drill a 7/16 hole. Its close enough.

For the nose cone on the roller ball use a m9 x.75 tap/die cut the tenon 8.8mm (.3456) or close without going over 9mm.  For the female threads
9-.75=8.25mm  I use a 21/64 drill bit (8.34mm)  

Design your nose cone for length, turn it to rough diameter,and drill the inside so your refill will fit. Cut your tenon for the m9 x.75 tap and cut the male threads.  Use of a lubricant will help make smoother threads. Pam cooking oil wd40 , soapy water. 

You will need to make both a plug and a female holder for the m9 threads out of scrap material. The plug will be used in the pen body to keep the threaded area from breaking while threading the cap threads. The female piece will be used to hold the nose cone for final shaping and finishing. 

Design your pen body, drill it deep enough for the refill to fit if you want to make a closed end or all the way through and make a cap later.  Drill the body with the 21/64th drill bit.  Tap the inside threads.  Cut the outside tenon and then insert the plug you made.  Cut the outside male threads with the die.  The plug will help support the inside thread area while you cut the cap threads. 

Design and cut your cap to rough dimensions. Drill the cap with the 7/16 drill bit. Tap it with the M12x.75 tap. 
You can make finials for both the cap and pen body and just glue them in at assembly or you can thread both areas and the finials to be able to disassemble the pen.

Finish the pen.


A fountain pen is done much the same way but  you need to decide on a brand of Nib/ feeds and buy the specialty tap for that size and brand. You make a front section instead of a nose cone and it has to be drilled and tapped specifically for the size and brand you choose.



From here you can modify your designs and techniques in any way to suit you.  Try different sizes and threads on scrap pieces to get the feel for the material. 


Resourses

Metric taps-
Amazon, victornet.com, enco.com, Littlemachineshop.com  etc

Bock taps and the 9x.75 
classicnibs.com and Indy~Pen~Dance.com

Jowo  (Meisternib.com) nibs and triple lead taps
silverpenparts.com


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## Jim Burr (May 11, 2013)

Thanks Mike!! Great research effort on your part...thanks for the info!!


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## mredburn (May 11, 2013)

Please feel free to add to, discuss, or ask questions in this thread. I have not posted every minute detail so that as you try this you will have to think about the processes and there fore learn more from your efforts.


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## theidlemind (May 11, 2013)

Mike, thank you for taking the time to do this, I'd love to see it in the library. This is a great resource.


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## terryf (May 11, 2013)

Saved, thanks Mike


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## Exabian (May 11, 2013)

Thanks mike I was just asking about this.


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## OKLAHOMAN (May 11, 2013)

Could we add this to the Library? Please!!!!!!


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## MikeL (May 11, 2013)

Thanks mike. I am going to make this my next venture but there is much to know before taking the first step. Your information has been a huge help!


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## mtgrizzly52 (May 11, 2013)

Fantastic information! Thank you so much!!!

mtgrizzly52
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## Displaced Canadian (May 11, 2013)

I like using metric because it makes the math so much easier. I started with commonly available tap and dies and found that it does work BUT the threads look too coarse and you have to leave a lot of materiel where you thread because they cut deep and breakage will be an issue. Also finer threads cut easier than coarse ones.


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## PenMan1 (May 11, 2013)

You are the MAN, Mike Redburn! I should have expected greatness like this from a man that stares down giant Florida bears!

A valuable tool, THANKS!


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## John Den (May 11, 2013)

Thanks Mike
Regards,
John


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## jasontg99 (May 11, 2013)

Mike,

    This is great info.  Thanks for taking the time to put this together!


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## Justturnin (May 11, 2013)

Brilliant. Thanks Mike. I have been debating makimg the leap to kitless  but the price of the taps is holding me back. Someday i will bite the bullet.


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## wood-of-1kind (May 11, 2013)

Thanks Mike, lots of great info that you have shared. Although I do not make kit less pens this goes along way in understanding the process.


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## bluwolf (May 12, 2013)

Clear and concise Mike. A great starting point with all the major sizes broken down into what they're for and all in one place along with a good explanation as to why. There is a lot of good info about all this kitless stuff around the site. But I think the same question as to the sizes to start with seem to keep popping up because the sizes are buried in with all the other good info. By the time you get done reading it all, you forget where you saw the sizes:biggrin:

Mike


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