# CA over Sanding Sealer or shellac?



## Warren White (Oct 29, 2016)

Can I apply CA over Cellulose Sanding Sealer?  What about over shellac?

(I know I can.... but should I?)

I am turning a pen out of cherry and I would like to enhance the color a bit.

Thank you!
Warren


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## Dan Masshardt (Oct 29, 2016)

I'm not sure that either of those will change the color much unless the shellac is tinted.  Sanding sealer does nothing to enhance color in my experience.  

I think cherry looks great with ca.  

If you do use shellac, dewaxed is best.   

You might want to try a wipe with blo then ca.  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Warren White (Oct 29, 2016)

*You are right, Dan*

I just tried a sample and it didn't make any change to the color.  I was wondering how it might affect the CA.

Whatever effect it might have, it really isn't worth it.

I agree about the Cherry.  It is one of my favorite woods.  I just wanted to 'boost' it a bit.

Thanks,
Warren


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## Skie_M (Oct 29, 2016)

I use a combination of Minwax Stain'n'Seal and CA for my usual finish .... but the stain is a "natural" color, sort of a light amber.  It makes the wood appear to be wet, in appearance, and helps deepen the colors and highlights.  It also happens to contain some boiled linseed oil, so it also has the same effects as the BLO+CA combination, where the CA cures a little faster.

If the "natural" look isn't quite dark enough for you, you could try enhancing the blank just before application by applying heat to darken it or possibly a dye or stain to darken the blank?  In addition to those options, Minwax does, of course, carry actual stain colors in that exact same product line, if you want to try them out ... I got a pint can of it for around 7 dollars, I think.


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## farmer (Oct 29, 2016)

*Sanding sealer*



Warren White said:


> Can I apply CA over Cellulose Sanding Sealer?  What about over shellac?
> 
> (I know I can.... but should I?)
> 
> ...



Sanding sealer is shellac except it has more denatured alcohol in it .
Both are Lac bug $hit


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## donstephan (Oct 29, 2016)

"Both are lac bug . . ."  Is that a problem?


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## Skie_M (Oct 29, 2016)

The products that you know as "shellac" and "sanding sealer" are based from the same source .... the dung from the female lac bug....


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## bmachin (Oct 29, 2016)

Shellac is often used as a sanding sealer.  However, cellulose sanding sealer is an entirely different animal.  It is basically nitrocellulose lacquer that has had stearates added to it to give it a fast build and to make it easy to sand off.

There is a good article on sealers by Michael Dresdner here:

When to Use Sanding Sealer / Rockler How-to

And another by Bob Flexner here:

Shellac as a sealer? It

FWIW

Bill


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## TongueTied (Oct 29, 2016)

Not sure if this is what the OP meant but it is the same question I have. If you use shellac/sanding sealer, BLO or WOP, and then apply CA, will the CA adhere and will it stay on over the long term? I've heard some say that they apply CA over BLO without issue and some say that when they do that, the CA has a tendency to separate. So, does anyone have $0.02 to throw in? What is your experience?


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## MrKugelschreiber (Oct 29, 2016)

I'm not sure I see a reason for a sanding sealer if your gonna use CA.  CA will fill the pours.


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## jttheclockman (Oct 30, 2016)

TongueTied said:


> Not sure if this is what the OP meant but it is the same question I have. If you use shellac/sanding sealer, BLO or WOP, and then apply CA, will the CA adhere and will it stay on over the long term? I've heard some say that they apply CA over BLO without issue and some say that when they do that, the CA has a tendency to separate. So, does anyone have $0.02 to throw in? What is your experience?




You all are looking for positive answers and there are none in pen turning and finishing. Many times problems arise in woodworking in general also. 

With that said why is it you find a need to use shellac or sanding sealer when doing a CA finish. It will not enhance the color. For that you need an oil base product and blo will accomplish that to a point. Again all woods react differently to finishes. Now if you are using a blo which is an oil on an oily wood guess what????  The very problem you have with woods that is oily you are enhancing it. Get where I am going with this??? Now if you are going to use a blo let it dry and then wipe it with acetone before the CA finish (let acetone dry ). Every layer or product you use needs to dry before you move onto the next coat.  

If using CA use the thin version to seal the wood and adhesion is no problem after that. BLO will add a warm glow to wood when applied. I never use it in combination of CA and blo. These are my 2¢


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## farmer (Oct 30, 2016)

*Both are Lac Bug $hit*



donstephan said:


> "Both are lac bug . . ."  Is that a problem?





I said that because I didn't know if everyone knew Shellac is made from Lac bugs,,,,,,,,, $hit .


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## Warren White (Oct 30, 2016)

bmachin said:


> Shellac is often used as a sanding sealer.  However, cellulose sanding sealer is an entirely different animal.  It is basically nitrocellulose lacquer that has had stearates added to it to give it a fast build and to make it easy to sand off.
> 
> There is a good article on sealers by Michael Dresdner here:
> 
> ...



Thanks Bill.  That was good information.  I decided (after testing before I took the wood to its final size) that it indeed didn't make any difference in the look of the wood.  Since that was the case I didn't use it.


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## Culprit (Nov 2, 2016)

Warren White said:


> I am turning a pen out of cherry and I would like to enhance the color a bit.


 
Cherry naturally darkens with age - is that the color change you are looking for?  Can you do what others have done with Purpleheart and leave it in the sun for a few days?  I remember reading one guy's post saying he hangs his turned pen barrels from his rearview mirror for a few days.  Most believe it is the UV component in sunshine that darkens the wood.  If that is true, one could also try one of the UV lights that those experimenting with Solarez are using.


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## Skie_M (Nov 2, 2016)

Purpleheart darkens with UV light and oxidiation .... I usually take a small blowtorch to my nearly finished blank right before I do my finish sanding at 500+ grit and then add my usual CA finish over top .... the purple really stands out in bright light, like sunlight, but it looks nearly solid black in dimmer light, like ebony.

Now, don't go setting your blanks on fire!  You just play the flame over the spinning blank, perhaps a few inches away, just till it starts to darken .... once it's a medium purple, you should be good to go.  Remember that your CA finish will give it a "wet" appearance, which will darken the appearance even further.


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## PhilW (Sep 5, 2018)

I just turned a Purple Heart pen and i used a heat gun instead of a torch. Is there a better benefit to using a torch versus a heat gun?


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## MRDucks2 (Sep 5, 2018)

I have used a heat gun with success and prefer that level of control over a torch. My best, most consistent color comes from just leaving it sit in a sunny windowsill a few a firming it once a day. 


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