# Acrylester, Acrylic or Rhino?



## mikeschn (Mar 4, 2016)

Just curious what you guys think about the various materials.. How would you rank them and why?


Acrylester
Acrylic
Rhino Polyester

And is there something else out there that is even better than these three?

Thanks, 

Mike..


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## magpens (Mar 4, 2016)

Better ? ... in what way ? . For ease of turning I like Alumilite . The ones you listed are brittle by comparison, but they all polish up nicely. . Alumilite polishes also but so brilliantly. . Alumilite can be much more colorful, depending on how it is mixed. . One of our members is a master with Alumilite ... check out ElMostro .

Hey .... while we're talking .... welcome to IAP !!!!


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## MTViper (Mar 4, 2016)

I've turned all three and for appearance and ease of turning, my preferences are Rhino, Acrylic, then Acrylester.  All benefit from sharp tools and small cuts.  Rhino just seems to turn easier to me.


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## mikeschn (Mar 5, 2016)

Thanks for the welcome.

I guess what I was after is which pen materials turn out the nicest? I am not a fan of the translucent stuff. Is Mica Pearl the same thing as Rhino Plastic?

And is there any danger of finished pens being too brittle and breaking if it gets dropped on the floor for example?

Mike...


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## jttheclockman (Mar 5, 2016)

mikeschn said:


> Just curious what you guys think about the various materials.. How would you rank them and why?
> 
> 
> Acrylester
> ...



The nicest materials I ever turned and not because of ease to turn but the deep rich look of them. Tru-stone material and Ceblopast (Cellulose Acetate) material. Made to be put on highend kits or for making custom pens. Pricey but worth it. 

After that then you get into some of the nice burl woods, segmenting with different materials and then acrylics. All materials have a place and their own look. Learn to work with them all.


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## ed4copies (Mar 5, 2016)

Look in the library, under materials, acrylic revolution==written by Avbill.  A pretty reasonable synopsis of "plastics".


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## MikeinSC (Mar 5, 2016)

So to answer your question...

Of those materials listed, I would rank them like this.

Rhino plastic. The owner has a background in plastics. I think as a chemist? It's also a local company to me. It's also the first commercial acrylic blank that didn't make me regret buying it.

Acrylic blanks. It's a bit of a broad category when you get into it because of differing acrylic formulas used to make the acrylic blank. But, for general acrylics, I would put this as a second choice. Just because you generally won't have issues, a tremendous amount of options and they generally polish up well and look nice. 

Acrylester would be last of the three choices. It looks great but a pain to work with. Too much hassle. 



All that being said,  I'd rank my acrylic blanks first because I think they're awesome and generally turn easier than most other acrylics. However, this isn't about me.


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## mikeschn (Mar 5, 2016)

Good article by avbill. Thanks... 

Nice listing Mikeinsc. 

So I'm guessing if I were to add mica pearl to the list, it might look like this...

Rhino Polyester
Acrylic Acetate
Mica Pearl
Acrylester

and I'm also guessing that mica pearl and acrylester can be interchangable for last place, because both are a pain to turn, but both look pretty when done. 

Where does Kirinite fit in, above or below Rhino Polyester? 

What the difference between Acrylic Acetate and Berea Acrylic Acetate? Is the Berea Acrylic Acetate made in Berea?

Mike...


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## ed4copies (Mar 5, 2016)

Berea acrylic seems to have better "quality control".  Their acrylic is made FOR THEM, and they are willing to put their name on it--

Other acrylic acetate CAN be equally good, or it can be pretty bad--sometimes in the same batch.  

Kirinite is a trade name for a product that was made for the handgun grip industry in the USA.  After turning a couple, I detect no difference from any other good acrylic.  I had hoped their patterns would be more "dependable" (having some pattern in every blank).  My experience with the product so far is disappointing in this regard.


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## ed4copies (Mar 5, 2016)

As to putting Rhino Plastic first---that is CERTAINLY opinion.  I would rank it as a good, not great product.  But, compared to other plastics, I can't think of one characteristic where I would consider it "best".


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## mikeschn (Mar 5, 2016)

Hi Ed, 

I'd love to hear what you consider a great product. So if I called you up today, and asked you to make me the most awesome looking pen you can, what blank would you start with? 

I'd like it to be dark and opaque, and deep and rich... 

Mike...



ed4copies said:


> As to putting Rhino Plastic first---that is CERTAINLY opinion.  I would rank it as a good, not great product.  But, compared to other plastics, I can't think of one characteristic where I would consider it "best".


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## ed4copies (Mar 5, 2016)

Hi Mike,

My perfect pen would not be the same as YOUR perfect pen--and that is GREAT!!  Retail Pen selling is fun, because I convince a customer to think like I do, or at least to appreciate the same qualities I appreciate in a hand made pen.

To answer your request, 
_I'd like it to be dark and opaque, and deep and rich... 

I'd say your requirement is self-contradictory:  Deep is not going to happen with an opaque blank.

Because forum rules do not allow me to promote blanks we sell, I can't get any more specific in my answer, sorry.
PM sent.
_


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## mikeschn (Mar 5, 2016)

Yea, I guess I got carried away, eh? LOL

I guess I am just going to have to experiment... 

I'll have to get a black mica pearl
a black kirinite
a black acrylester (any suggestions?)
a black berea acrylic (I have a purple green & black)
and a black rhino polyester resin (I have a carolina swirl I can try)
an aluminite

If anyone is interested I can check back in as I make progress... 

Mike... 





ed4copies said:


> Hi Mike,
> 
> My perfect pen would not be the same as YOUR perfect pen--and that is GREAT!!  Retail Pen selling is fun, because I convince a customer to think like I do, or at least to appreciate the same qualities I appreciate in a hand made pen.
> 
> ...


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## OLLIEwinz (Mar 7, 2016)

the first acrylic i turned was acrylic acetate, it was easy to turn if you take your time. inlace acrylester is much much more brittle and prone to chip-out.hope this helps!


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## Sylvanite (Mar 7, 2016)

There are different types of "plastic" pen blanks.  They include (but are not limited to)
Acrylic,
Polyester,
Urethane, and
Epoxy
Unfortunately, many people mistakenly refer to all of them as "Acrylic", but that is a misnomer.  It's analogous to calling all soft drinks "Coke".  While Coca-Cola and Pepsi-Cola are both colas, Dr. Pepper, Mountain Dew, 7-Up, and Grape Nehi are very different sodas.  You wouldn't be happy if you went into a restaurant, ordered "Coke", and got RedPop, would you?  Likewise, we should be more careful with how we describe and advertise plastic pen blanks.

Berea Acrylic pen blanks are true acrylic (poly-methyl methacrylate a.k.a. PMMA).

Inlace Acrylester is not acrylic in any way, shape or form.  It is a polyester resin.  

RhinoPlastic blanks are advertised as acrylic, but I don't believe that is true.  I suspect they are also polyester.

I have seen some members here pouring their own polyester resin blanks and selling them as "acrylic".

I've purchased and turned real acrylic blanks, and I pour my own (and sell some) made from clear polyester resin (Silmar 41), clear urethane resin (Alumilite Clear), and opaque urethane resins (Alumilite White and Alumilite RC3 Black).  Each type has its own drilling, turning, and polishing characteristics.

Real acrylic (PMMA) blanks drill, turn, and polish easily.  They are typically extruded (at our price point) and the manufacturing process is beyond most of us.  I don't trust anybody who claims to make their own acrylic blanks.

Polyester (e.g. Castin' Craft, Silmar, and Polylite) resin blanks are fairly easy to make and well within the ability of a home turner.  These are the resins that smell like Styrene and are hardened with MEKP.  How easily they drill and turn is very dependent on how they were cast.  When catalyzed properly, they are not difficult to use.  When over-catalyzed, they can become quite brittle.  I suspect that Inlace Acrylester blanks are over-catalyzed (which makes it quicker to manufacture, but harder to use).  Polyester is generally easy to polish to a high shine.

Alumilite Clear is a two-part urethane resin that is easy to use (but must be measured by weight), doesn't smell bad, and produces blanks that are relatively easy to drill and turn, but can be difficult to polish.  A high-gloss finish requires more attention and better technique.  You must cast under pressure or you'll get tiny air bubbles in the blanks.

Alumilite White and RC3 Black are also two-part urethane resins that are easy to use but set very quickly.  They are opaque so you can't color them with mica powder.  You must use compatible dyes (and the dyes for PR are not compatible).  Moisture will make urethane resins foam (clear or opaque), so you must avoid any water contamination.  These blanks, however, are not brittle at all.  They are very easy to drill, and the easiest material I've found to turn.  If you are trying to learn how to use a skew chisel, get some Alumilite White or Black blanks.  They'll make you feel like you know what you're doing.  The white blanks are easy to polish.  Black tends to show off the tiniest scratches, so it takes more effort and better technique.

There are many different epoxies - with different properties.  Some members here use West System 105/207 with good results.  I haven't tried it myself.  It has a long open time (which means you don't have to rush when using it) and is very strong, but is more expensive than other options.

Whichever plastic you choose, I encourage you to use the correct terminology.

I hope that helps,
Eric


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## mikeschn (Mar 7, 2016)

Very nice write up Sylvanite... Thanks for doing that!!!

Mike...


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## Joey-Nieves (Mar 7, 2016)

ed4copies said:


> Berea acrylic seems to have better "quality control".  Their acrylic is made FOR THEM, and they are willing to put their name on it--
> 
> Other acrylic acetate CAN be equally good, or it can be pretty bad--sometimes in the same batch.
> 
> Kirinite is a trade name for a product that was made for the handgun grip industry in the USA.  After turning a couple, I detect no difference from any other good acrylic.  I had hoped their patterns would be more "dependable" (having some pattern in every blank).  My experience with the product so far is disappointing in this regard.



Ed:
I've always been confused when it comes to Acrylic, basically because everybody markets it with a different name(well that's marketing for you) I suppose The AA Berea blanks I buy from Exotic blanks are Acrylic Acetate, they seem to be more "Elastic" or at least not as crispy as others. They turn nice and are not brittle like other acrylics, so the question is, can they be cast like we cast other acrylics at home, like we do with PR and Aluminite?

Joey


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## ed4copies (Mar 7, 2016)

Joey-Nieves said:


> ed4copies said:
> 
> 
> > Berea acrylic seems to have better "quality control".  Their acrylic is made FOR THEM, and they are willing to put their name on it--
> ...



Hey Joey,

Eric (Sylvanite) hit the nail squarely on the head.  NO Acrylic that I know of can be made at home.

Acrylic acetate requires substantial pressure and is usually made in sheets.  It is NOT the same as alumilite or Polyresin.  Many of the blanks sold as "acrylic" are not.  Hence, the confusion.

Oh, Eric is correct about RhinoPlastic--it is polyresin.


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## Joey-Nieves (Mar 7, 2016)

ed4copies said:


> Joey-Nieves said:
> 
> 
> > ed4copies said:
> ...



Ed:
Finally I got a straight answer, That acetate stuff is very nice specially when making sections. pity though we can't make them at home.

By the way, while on this subject The Dark blue Acetate Deep blue sea AA53 is no ware to be found do you know why?


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## Sylvanite (Mar 8, 2016)

Umm, be careful referring to a blank as "acetate" too.  There are polymers that are "acetates" other than acrylic.  Cebloplast (a vintage plastic that can make gorgeous pens), for example, is cellulose acetate.  Polyvinyl acetate (PVA) you may know as wood glue.  

The only place I see the term "acrylic acetate" is in descriptions of pen blanks.  I don't find it in any list of acrylic polymers.  That makes me suspect that "acrylic acetate" may actually be another misnomer.  It doesn't help that the base resin for multiple acrylic polymers is "acrylic acid".  I'm not a chemist, however, and I may be entirely mistaken on that point.  If anybody knows for sure, I'd be happy to learn.

Some other "plastic" materials used for making pens are:
Bakelite (a vintage polymer based on phenol formaldehyde),
Casein (a plastic made from milk protein),
Cebloplast (cellulose acetate as mentioned above),
Ebonite (actually a hard rubber),
Polymer clay (kneadable polyvinylchloride), and
Polyvinylchloride (a.k.a. PVC pipe).
Of all these, only polymer clay is suitable for making your own blanks.  None of the others can easily be fabricated at home.

TruStone and M3 blanks are trade secret formulations, but I suspect that they are composites using epoxy resins as binders.

As far as I know I'm the only person who's ever made a pen blank from nitrocellulose (although I used gunpowder, not the plastic film).  I've also used vinylester resin, which is similar to polyester resin.

Oh, and as Eagle used to say, with enough CA glue anything can be made into a pen blank.  CA stands for "cyanoacrylate" (another polymer in the acrylic family).

Each of these materials has its own unique characteristics, so again, it behooves us to refer to them properly.

I hope that was informative, if not necessarily useful,
Eric


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## CaptainJane (Mar 8, 2016)

*preferences*

I am a beginner that likes "plastic".

I choose mostly for color.

I seem to order and turn a lot of Kirinite (from Exotics) and Rhino as well.


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