# Is there a 7mm click pen kit available?



## SkewedUp

Someone asked me if there is a slim style click pen available and I had to admit that I've never heard of one. 

Is there any pen kit available that looks like a slimline but has a click mechanism? Something that would look a lot like a slim pencil kit but would be an ink pen.


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## navycop

I dont remember the name . But I have done a lot of them for the nurses at work. It is easy for them to click with one hand to try and turn the regular slimeline. Had a minute to look it up http://www.pennstateind.com/store/slimline-pro-pen-kits.html


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## Magicbob

berea has a new slim click with a stylus nib

Turbin™ Stylus Ballpoint Chrome Pen Kit Making Supplies Berea HardWoods


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## Neededwill

Slimline pro are 8mm tubes not 7mm


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## SkewedUp

Thanks for the replies but like mentioned above, both of those kits are 8mm and don't have the traditional slimline look to them.


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## SkewedUp

It is just amazing to me that there is not a click version of the slimline pen. It is even more amazing that it has never come to my attention before. I know there are commercially available click pens that are similar in size to the slimline kits. 

In fact, my wife just showed me several paper mate pens she has that are very similar in size to a slimline that are click pens. And the click mechanisms are very solid feeling. One of them is a pen she got over 30 years ago so it is not a new concept.  What gives? Surely this is not the first time someone has wanted a slimline click pen?!?!?!?!?

Why can't we get a slimline click pen kit? I've got a customer who would really like one...


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## Gord K.

I think the thinnest click pen you are going to find is the Artisan Click Pen from Craft Supplies USA. Because of my preference for thin pens, I have searched! The Artisan click uses 8mm tubes (as does the Slimline Pro Gel) but the nib, center connectors and click mechanism are thinner. Unfortunately, it's only available in 10K and 24K gold. In the attached photo there is a slimline stylus, an Artisan click, a Slimline PRO (yes, I forgot to install the clip) and a Sierra to give you size comparisons.

Still looking for the ultimate thin click pen. 

Gord


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## Smitty37

Magicbob said:


> berea has a new slim click with a stylus nib
> 
> Turbin™ Stylus Ballpoint Chrome Pen Kit Making Supplies Berea HardWoods


That is closer to 8mm ("O" drill size) and uses a parker refill.


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## Smitty37

SkewedUp said:


> It is just amazing to me that there is not a click version of the slimline pen. It is even more amazing that it has never come to my attention before. I know there are commercially available click pens that are similar in size to the slimline kits.
> 
> In fact, my wife just showed me several paper mate pens she has that are very similar in size to a slimline that are click pens. And the click mechanisms are very solid feeling. One of them is a pen she got over 30 years ago so it is not a new concept.  What gives? Surely this is not the first time someone has wanted a slimline click pen?!?!?!?!?
> 
> Why can't we get a slimline click pen kit? I've got a customer who would really like one...


My first guess is the problem of getting a click mechanism that installs in a 7mm tube and has room for a refill without making the pen too long


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## Wildman

I don’t think can go wrong with either the PSI 8mm  or Berea Turbin Stylus  pen kits.  That 8mm Click pen has been very well received by ladies & men wanting a thin pens for years. 

Like that Turbin kit after reading instructions.

Cannot remember how many 10KT gold click pens have made back when only cost $2.95 per kit.  JMHO, prefer Berea’s Button click double band because better click mechanism.  Made both upgrade gold and chrome although chrome no longer available.  Both Berea & Craft supplies click pens sold well  and very popular with people wanting thin pens never had a return. 

Never had much luck with Berea’s cushion grip kit’s click mechanism. Of the ten kits made seven swapped out for Button click to customers.


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## bkersten

SkewedUp said:


> It is just amazing to me that there is not a click version of the slimline pen. It is even more amazing that it has never come to my attention before. I know there are commercially available click pens that are similar in size to the slimline kits.
> 
> In fact, my wife just showed me several paper mate pens she has that are very similar in size to a slimline that are click pens. And the click mechanisms are very solid feeling. One of them is a pen she got over 30 years ago so it is not a new concept.  What gives? Surely this is not the first time someone has wanted a slimline click pen?!?!?!?!?
> 
> Why can't we get a slimline click pen kit? I've got a customer who would really like one...



 
Design and make one for your project, and PSI will have one listed
in their next catolog.


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## bjbear76

I actually found a 7mm click kit that I came across in an estate sale last year.  No instructions or bushings and no idea who manufactured it.  Just parts in a zip bag.  But it works great; probably one of the smoothest and most reliable clickers I use.  Judging by the packaging, I'd say it was quite old.  If I knew who manufactured it (and still available), I would definitely add it to my kit inventory.


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## SkewedUp

Gord K. said:


> I think the thinnest click pen you are going to find is the Artisan Click Pen from Craft Supplies USA. Because of my preference for thin pens, I have searched! The Artisan click uses 8mm tubes (as does the Slimline Pro Gel) but the nib, center connectors and click mechanism are thinner. Unfortunately, it's only available in 10K and 24K gold. In the attached photo there is a slimline stylus, an Artisan click, a Slimline PRO (yes, I forgot to install the clip) and a Sierra to give you size comparisons.
> 
> Still looking for the ultimate thin click pen.
> 
> Gord



Thanks Gord. That Artisan click pen is the closest I've seen. I wish it came in more platings and with a different center band. I might have to give it a try.


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## SkewedUp

Smitty37 said:


> SkewedUp said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is just amazing to me that there is not a click version of the slimline pen. It is even more amazing that it has never come to my attention before. I know there are commercially available click pens that are similar in size to the slimline kits.
> 
> In fact, my wife just showed me several paper mate pens she has that are very similar in size to a slimline that are click pens. And the click mechanisms are very solid feeling. One of them is a pen she got over 30 years ago so it is not a new concept.  What gives? Surely this is not the first time someone has wanted a slimline click pen?!?!?!?!?
> 
> Why can't we get a slimline click pen kit? I've got a customer who would really like one...
> 
> 
> 
> My first guess is the problem of getting a click mechanism that installs in a 7mm tube and has room for a refill without making the pen too long
Click to expand...


Paper Mate seems to have been making some slim clickers for over 30 years. The 2 in the picture are good examples. In fact, the pen in the middle is the pen my wife carried in her checkbook for over 30 years before I was finally able to make one that she cared to replace it with. 

The pen on the far right is a slimline like the ones I make and sell now.  That is what I'm hoping to find a similar kit to but with a click mechanism.


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## SkewedUp

Wildman said:


> I don’t think can go wrong with either the PSI 8mm  or Berea Turbin Stylus  pen kits.  That 8mm Click pen has been very well received by ladies & men wanting a thin pens for years.
> 
> Like that Turbin kit after reading instructions.
> 
> Cannot remember how many 10KT gold click pens have made back when only cost $2.95 per kit.  JMHO, prefer Berea’s Button click double band because better click mechanism.  Made both upgrade gold and chrome although chrome no longer available.  Both Berea & Craft supplies click pens sold well  and very popular with people wanting thin pens never had a return.
> 
> Never had much luck with Berea’s cushion grip kit’s click mechanism. Of the ten kits made seven swapped out for Button click to customers.



Thanks Wildman. The Turbin kit does not really appeal to me. The button click double center band is closer but looks like it takes a much bigger tube.


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## KenV

SkewedUp said:


> Wildman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don’t think can go wrong with either the PSI 8mm  or Berea Turbin Stylus  pen kits.  That 8mm Click pen has been very well received by ladies & men wanting a thin pens for years.
> 
> Like that Turbin kit after reading instructions.
> 
> Cannot remember how many 10KT gold click pens have made back when only cost $2.95 per kit.  JMHO, prefer Berea’s Button click double band because better click mechanism.  Made both upgrade gold and chrome although chrome no longer available.  Both Berea & Craft supplies click pens sold well  and very popular with people wanting thin pens never had a return.
> 
> Never had much luck with Berea’s cushion grip kit’s click mechanism. Of the ten kits made seven swapped out for Button click to customers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks Wildman. The Turbin kit does not really appeal to me. The button click double center band is closer but looks like it takes a much bigger tube.
Click to expand...


0.04 inches does not trigger "much bigger" to my eye.   Straight sided bushing to bushing, it works with a 5/8 or 11/16 inch blanks and careful drilling.   3/4 inch blanks seems wasteful.


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## Smitty37

SkewedUp said:


> Smitty37 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SkewedUp said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is just amazing to me that there is not a click version of the slimline pen. It is even more amazing that it has never come to my attention before. I know there are commercially available click pens that are similar in size to the slimline kits.
> 
> In fact, my wife just showed me several paper mate pens she has that are very similar in size to a slimline that are click pens. And the click mechanisms are very solid feeling. One of them is a pen she got over 30 years ago so it is not a new concept.  What gives? Surely this is not the first time someone has wanted a slimline click pen?!?!?!?!?
> 
> Why can't we get a slimline click pen kit? I've got a customer who would really like one...
> 
> 
> 
> My first guess is the problem of getting a click mechanism that installs in a 7mm tube and has room for a refill without making the pen too long
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Paper Mate seems to have been making some slim clickers for over 30 years. The 2 in the picture are good examples. In fact, the pen in the middle is the pen my wife carried in her checkbook for over 30 years before I was finally able to make one that she cared to replace it with.
> 
> The pen on the far right is a slimline like the ones I make and sell now.  That is what I'm hoping to find a similar kit to but with a click mechanism.
Click to expand...

My experience with commercial pens is that most of them do not have the same method of construction that our slimline kits have.  I've taken a few (not many) apart and found some that the click mechanism is actually plastic and is a lot different than any I've seen available in kits, I seem to remember some where you could not change the refill.  Don't misunderstand, I hope you are right and can find what you want.  I just know that in the years I've been doing this I've never seen one.


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## SkewedUp

bkersten said:


> SkewedUp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why can't we get a slimline click pen kit? I've got a customer who would really like one...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Design and make one for your project, and PSI will have one listed
> in their next catolog.
Click to expand...


LOL. Ain't that the truth


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## SkewedUp

Smitty37 said:


> SkewedUp said:
> 
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> 
> Smitty37 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SkewedUp said:
> 
> 
> 
> The pen on the far right is a slimline like the ones I make and sell now.  That is what I'm hoping to find a similar kit to but with a click mechanism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My experience with commercial pens is that most of them do not have the same method of construction that our slimline kits have.  I've taken a few (not many) apart and found some that the click mechanism is actually plastic and is a lot different than any I've seen available in kits, I seem to remember some where you could not change the refill.  Don't misunderstand, I hope you are right and can find what you want.  I just know that in the years I've been doing this I've never seen one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I hear you Smitty. The pen in the middle takes a standard Cross type refill but the other one takes a refill I'm not familiar with.
> 
> I'm still a bit surprised that there is no click slimline kit available for us to use.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


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## SkewedUp

bjbear76 said:


> I actually found a 7mm click kit that I came across in an estate sale last year.  No instructions or bushings and no idea who manufactured it.  Just parts in a zip bag.  But it works great; probably one of the smoothest and most reliable clickers I use.  Judging by the packaging, I'd say it was quite old.  If I knew who manufactured it (and still available), I would definitely add it to my kit inventory.



My brother gave me a couple of pen kit like that one time. I have no idea who made them and there were no instructions. They are stashed away in a drawer somewhere safe. Hmmm...I wonder if they were click or twist? 

I have a few customers who only want a click pen, so I'd probably keep a few slimline clicks in inventory too if they were available (are you listening PSI??? :biggrin:  )


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## Smitty37

SkewedUp said:


> Smitty37 said:
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> SkewedUp said:
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> Smitty37 said:
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> SkewedUp said:
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> 
> The pen on the far right is a slimline like the ones I make and sell now.  That is what I'm hoping to find a similar kit to but with a click mechanism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My experience with commercial pens is that most of them do not have the same method of construction that our slimline kits have.  I've taken a few (not many) apart and found some that the click mechanism is actually plastic and is a lot different than any I've seen available in kits, I seem to remember some where you could not change the refill.  Don't misunderstand, I hope you are right and can find what you want.  I just know that in the years I've been doing this I've never seen one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I hear you Smitty. The pen in the middle takes a standard Cross type refill but the other one takes a refill I'm not familiar with.
> 
> I'm still a bit surprised that there is no click slimline kit available for us to use.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In the middle kit is part of the click mechanism the actual barrel?  I have seen a couple where it is.
> If you find one let me know mayble I'll try to list it in my store.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


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## SkewedUp

Smitty -  that pen is a manufactured by Paper Mate, not a pen made from a kit. I cannot tell much about the click mechanism...and SWMBO won't let me disassemble it   

It is by far the slimmest click pen I've ever seen and the click mechanism is very robust and was used a lot by my wife for more than 30 years. I just wonder why something like that is not available as a kit. I'd love to see a really good quality click pen available as a kit but I guess there is not one available.


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## Smitty37

SkewedUp said:


> Smitty -  that pen is a manufactured by Paper Mate, not a pen made from a kit. I cannot tell much about the click mechanism...and SWMBO won't let me disassemble it
> 
> It is by far the slimmest click pen I've ever seen and the click mechanism is very robust and was used a lot by my wife for more than 30 years. I just wonder why something like that is not available as a kit. I'd love to see a really good quality click pen available as a kit but I guess there is not one available.



I wondered because I have an idea that the barrel is also part of the click mechanism.  At any rate good luck with your search.


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## JD Combs Sr

Posted a similar question(observation) a few weeks ago.  Did not find a kit but did find some parts at two sources, one is Richard Greenwald's site and the other is Milan's Pens and Parts.  I ordered some of the parts and they look promising for making a "kit-less" slimline clicker pen.  Just as soon as I get finished with a couple flat-work projects I am going to see what I can come up with.


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## SkewedUp

Thanks for that info JD!

I did not know it had come up before. I hope it works out for you and that someone (maybe you?) will make the effort to come up with a click slimline kit for those of us who might want to make them.


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## ELA

JD Combs Sr said:


> Posted a similar question(observation) a few weeks ago.
> they look promising for making a "kit-less" slimline clicker pen.



I also am interested is this project.  I have made a number of Pentel pencils.  They require me to make a bushing for the mechanism to fit in.  I use 1/4" bronze brazing rod to make them from.  I think this would also work to make the bushing for the click mechanism you are going to use.  

The only down side is having to buy the odd size tap (M4.2x.35) I could find no other source for tap other than Greenwald.


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## Smitty37

Magicbob said:


> berea has a new slim click with a stylus nib
> 
> Turbin™ Stylus Ballpoint Chrome Pen Kit Making Supplies Berea HardWoods


8mm tubes...


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## Joey-Nieves

The problem with the pro Slime line and the Artisan is that the mechanism is all plastic and stop working properly after a short while.  I made a few for sale and they where all returned because of this.  The way I fixed them was buying a better mechanism from Tim at Wood & Whimsies and adapting it to work with the pen.  
Remember, some people start playing with the clicker, I have a client that I made an Elegant Beauty pen and he wore it out in a few weeks, when I fixed it for him I told him that the pen was made for writing not playing, he swore he never played with it, but he couldn't stop clicking it the whole time, that's when I pointed it out to him and told him the warranty did not include the clicker!
There are some mechanism for Kittles pens out there but I haven't tried them out yet.


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## jttheclockman

Joey-Nieves said:


> The problem with the pro Slime line and the Artisan is that the mechanism is all plastic and stop working properly after a short while.  I made a few for sale and they where all returned because of this.  The way I fixed them was buying a better mechanism from Tim at Wood & Whimsies and adapting it to work with the pen.
> Remember, some people start playing with the clicker, I have a client that I made an Elegant Beauty pen and he wore it out in a few weeks, when I fixed it for him I told him that the pen was made for writing not playing, he swore he never played with it, but he couldn't stop clicking it the whole time, that's when I pointed it out to him and told him the warranty did not include the clicker!
> There are some mechanism for Kittles pens out there but I haven't tried them out yet.





You know what i do not get is that you hear way too often that these click pens we make from these kits and they include all, just break down in the click part of the kit. Yet there are the cheapest pens out there that the click mechanism works forever. Take the Bic pen as an example. How do they do it???


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## Smitty37

jttheclockman said:


> Joey-Nieves said:
> 
> 
> 
> The problem with the pro Slime line and the Artisan is that the mechanism is all plastic and stop working properly after a short while.  I made a few for sale and they where all returned because of this.  The way I fixed them was buying a better mechanism from Tim at Wood & Whimsies and adapting it to work with the pen.
> Remember, some people start playing with the clicker, I have a client that I made an Elegant Beauty pen and he wore it out in a few weeks, when I fixed it for him I told him that the pen was made for writing not playing, he swore he never played with it, but he couldn't stop clicking it the whole time, that's when I pointed it out to him and told him the warranty did not include the clicker!
> There are some mechanism for Kittles pens out there but I haven't tried them out yet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know what i do not get is that you hear way too often that these click pens we make from these kits and they include all, just break down in the click part of the kit. Yet there are the cheapest pens out there that the click mechanism works forever. Take the Bic pen as an example. How do they do it???
Click to expand...

 I have one of my clicks that I made to test the mechanism I clicked it (by count) 500 times a day for a month then I would click it 100 times when ever I thought of it. That was a couple of years ago and I would expect it has been clicked between 25000 and 50000 times by now and it doesn't display the first sign of failing.  Why?  Well because there is noting on it to wear other than the spring.  The mechanism itself isn't really subjected to anything but very minor friction and really should never wear out.  Now that's just one type of mechanism and I suppose there are others.  BTW I think this is a case where plastic will last longer then metal.

How do the manufacturers make them that never fail in cheap pens....The few that I have ever taken down and looked at it seemed the barrel was integrated as part of the click mechanism but it's been quite awhile since I tore one apart.  Also, a lot of thsse cheap clicks do fail.  At one time everybody and their brother it seemed was handing out promo pens and many of them failed in short time some didn't work at all some worked but wouldn't write.  On the other hand I have some promo pens I bought over 20 years ago that still write.  Go figure.


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## Smitty37

Joey-Nieves said:


> The problem with the pro Slime line and the Artisan is that the mechanism is all plastic and stop working properly after a short while.  I made a few for sale and they where all returned because of this.  The way I fixed them was buying a better mechanism from Tim at Wood & Whimsies and adapting it to work with the pen.
> Remember, some people start playing with the clicker, I have a client that I made an Elegant Beauty pen and he wore it out in a few weeks, when I fixed it for him I told him that the pen was made for writing not playing, he swore he never played with it, but he couldn't stop clicking it the whole time, that's when I pointed it out to him and told him the warranty did not include the clicker!
> There are some mechanism for Kittles pens out there but I haven't tried them out yet.


I made a slimline pro about 5 years ago for my wife and it still works fine so they don't all fail.  I look at their instructions and I tend to think the problem you talk about is one of design rather than the mechanism being plastic....


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## 79spitfire

I've had very good luck with the slimline pro, but it does take a 8mm tube. Interestingly, the one I've had the worst luck with is the Sierra "new style" click. I have had every one of these I've sold returned and no longer offer them for sale. I took one apart, and it appears it's easy to over-travel the mechanisim and create burrs in the wedge shaped 'shuttle' that flops back and forth. 

Anyway, I've used the all metal Schmidt clicker on several kitless pens and it seems very durable. I have also used the all plastic Schmidt click mechanism, and it also works very well, but again it is sized to fit in a 8mm tube. I have not tried the tiny 4.2mm click, but it's made by the same company, so therefore I think it may be a viable option. 

The other option I can think of would be to use the Schmidt clicker in a thick walled 1/4" tube with some sort of nose cone to achieve what your after.


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## SkewedUp

jttheclockman said:


> You know what i do not get is that you hear way too often that these click pens we make from these kits and they include all, just break down in the click part of the kit. Yet there are the cheapest pens out there that the click mechanism works forever. Take the Bic pen as an example. How do they do it???



I agree JT. With as many options as there are available for just about any kind of pen you can imagine, it amazes me that we cannot find a good quality click pen when they have obviously been available as manufactured pens for a long time, with a very good quality click mechanism, and at a reasonable cost. 

Why isn't there a viable option for those of us who would like to make and sell that kind of pen?  It seems like there would be a good market for them if someone could come up with a good quality click pen (for any pen but especially a slimline one!)


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## Smitty37

SkewedUp said:


> jttheclockman said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know what i do not get is that you hear way too often that these click pens we make from these kits and they include all, just break down in the click part of the kit. Yet there are the cheapest pens out there that the click mechanism works forever. Take the Bic pen as an example. How do they do it???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree JT. With as many options as there are available for just about any kind of pen you can imagine, it amazes me that we cannot find a good quality click pen when they have obviously been available as manufactured pens for a long time, with a very good quality click mechanism, and at a reasonable cost.
> 
> Why isn't there a viable option for those of us who would like to make and sell that kind of pen?  It seems like there would be a good market for them if someone could come up with a good quality click pen (for any pen but especially a slimline one!)
Click to expand...

It seems almost obvious, that if there was an easy way to come up with a click mechanism that will work well on pens using a 7mm tube and a cross refill, someone would have done it by now. 

I have pulled a couple of the cheapo commercial promo pes apart and their mechanisms are plastic very similar to the ones we use and they will *not* fit a 7mm tube. They might go in an 8mm

They use a cross style refill without the treaded end for slimlines and they seem to put a spring on the refill tip like we do with our parker style clicks. most do not have a return spring on the clicker button.


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## Gord K.

Why would or should a slim click pen have to use a Cross style refill? Amongst the many pens in my collection I have a Cross Click Gel pen. 

This pen is roughly 5.3" long, a Parker Jotter is about 5.05" and one of the first stock slimlines I built is 5.15". The gel refill from the Cross is 4.01" long and .225" in diameter compared to a Parker refill at 3.875" and .22" respectively. The inside diameter of the Cross' cap is just over .275" and the outside diameter is .325". The inside diameter of a slimline tube is .25" and outside diameter of a finished pen is .33".

All this tells me that a slimline sized pen with a click mechanism using a Parker style refill is doable. It all depends on finding a suitable click mechanism... unless I'm missing something.


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## Smitty37

Gord K. said:


> Why would or should a slim click pen have to use a Cross style refill? Amongst the many pens in my collection I have a Cross Click Gel pen.
> 
> This pen is roughly 5.3" long, a Parker Jotter is about 5.05" and one of the first stock slimlines I built is 5.15". The gel refill from the Cross is 4.01" long and .225" in diameter compared to a Parker refill at 3.875" and .22" respectively. The inside diameter of the Cross' cap is just over .275" and the outside diameter is .325". The inside diameter of a slimline tube is .25" and outside diameter of a finished pen is .33".
> 
> *All this tells me that a slimline sized pen with a click mechanism using a Parker style refill is doable. It all depends on finding a suitable click mechanism*... unless I'm missing something.


 That is the point.  There is none available in kit form although there might be some sold as individual parts. The Slimline Pro which uses a Parker style gel refill uses 8mm tubes.  I assume because they couldn't make 7mm work.


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## magpens

*Why no 7mm clicker ?  Patent rights or wimpy pen turners ?*

I have been wondering myself for a long time why there is no slimline clicker.  

I have come to the conclusion that it might be a matter of patent infringement.  

I have taken apart a number of those giveaway pens that you get from real estate agents and others, and even in the mail from charitable organizations asking for donations.  Those pens are incredibly cheap to produce, extremely simple in their design, and usually extremely reliable (except perhaps for the refill life).  

I even substituted a Parker refill for the cheap refill in one giveaway pen and the mechanism works, with no modifications except a minor enlargement of the end hole where the refill tip exits and retracts.

There is no reason why a pen kit maker such as Dayacom could not adapt such a design to a 7 mm kit format, with minimal parts size change only.

The makers of those cheap giveaway pens have obviously done some clever design engineering and are making a lot of money in selling their cheap pens by the billions. The Dayacoms have to know all about those designs. The designs must be protected by patents. 

There is another factor too.  The kit pen industry seems to be driven by manufacturer push and not by market pull.  Take a look at all the "different" new pen kits that have appeared in the last few years.  There is really nothing new in them conceptually.  A skull on top; a different bullet design on the bottom; a differently-shaped center band - but the same (marginally functional) old mechanism inside.  And we all have to buy a couple to try them out.  They know we'll buy their kits whatever they produce.

If we all stood up and demanded a re-engineering of the mechanisms, including a 7 mm clicker design do you think they would listen ?

But no .... we buy whatever they put on the market.  Pen turners are at the mercy of the pen kit manufacturers.  We're wimps.


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## Smitty37

magpens said:


> I have been wondering myself for a long time why there is no slimline clicker.
> 
> I have come to the conclusion that it might be a matter of patent infringement.
> 
> I have taken apart a number of those giveaway pens that you get from real estate agents and others, and even in the mail from charitable organizations asking for donations.  Those pens are incredibly cheap to produce, extremely simple in their design, and usually extremely reliable (except perhaps for the refill life).
> 
> I even substituted a Parker refill for the cheap refill in one giveaway pen and the mechanism works, with no modifications except a minor enlargement of the end hole where the refill tip exits and retracts.
> 
> There is no reason why a pen kit maker such as Dayacom could not adapt such a design to a 7 mm kit format, with minimal parts size change only.
> 
> The makers of those cheap giveaway pens have obviously done some clever design engineering and are making a lot of money in selling their cheap pens by the billions. The Dayacoms have to know all about those designs. The designs must be protected by patents.
> 
> There is another factor too.  The kit pen industry seems to be driven by manufacturer push and not by market pull.  Take a look at all the "different" new pen kits that have appeared in the last few years.  There is really nothing new in them conceptually.  A skull on top; a different bullet design on the bottom; a differently-shaped center band - but the same (marginally functional) old mechanism inside.  And we all have to buy a couple to try them out.  They know we'll buy their kits whatever they produce.
> 
> If we all stood up and demanded a re-engineering of the mechanisms, including a 7 mm clicker design do you think they would listen ?
> 
> But no .... we buy whatever they put on the market.  Pen turners are at the mercy of the pen kit manufacturers.  We're wimps.


I've only checked 4 or 5 of the many out there but none of the ones I checked had a click mechanism that would fit in an 7mm slimline tube. I believe that is the problem that no kit maker has picked one up.  There is not likely to be a patent problem patents last only 17 years in the USA so those mechanisms (the ones I saw were all pretty much the same) are going to be in the public domain - at least most of them will.


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## SkewedUp

magpens said:


> I have been wondering myself for a long time why there is no slimline clicker.
> 
> I have come to the conclusion that it might be a matter of patent infringement.
> 
> I have taken apart a number of those giveaway pens that you get from real estate agents and others, and even in the mail from charitable organizations asking for donations.  Those pens are incredibly cheap to produce, extremely simple in their design, and usually extremely reliable (except perhaps for the refill life).
> 
> I even substituted a Parker refill for the cheap refill in one giveaway pen and the mechanism works, with no modifications except a minor enlargement of the end hole where the refill tip exits and retracts.
> 
> There is no reason why a pen kit maker such as Dayacom could not adapt such a design to a 7 mm kit format, with minimal parts size change only.
> 
> The makers of those cheap giveaway pens have obviously done some clever design engineering and are making a lot of money in selling their cheap pens by the billions. The Dayacoms have to know all about those designs. The designs must be protected by patents.
> 
> There is another factor too.  The kit pen industry seems to be driven by manufacturer push and not by market pull.  Take a look at all the "different" new pen kits that have appeared in the last few years.  There is really nothing new in them conceptually.  A skull on top; a different bullet design on the bottom; a differently-shaped center band - but the same (marginally functional) old mechanism inside.  And we all have to buy a couple to try them out.  They know we'll buy their kits whatever they produce.
> 
> If we all stood up and demanded a re-engineering of the mechanisms, including a 7 mm clicker design do you think they would listen ?
> 
> But no .... we buy whatever they put on the market.  Pen turners are at the mercy of the pen kit manufacturers.  We're wimps.



Good points Mal. I know I have to try out the new designs to see if one might be what I'm looking for. And the designs seem to all have at least one thing about them that I don't really like. It seems like they have someone designing their pens who does not know much about making pens and what makes them appealing. I've tried giving my input but it seems to be ignored so they must have some people they rely on for input but not the average pen turner. 

One great example is the new American Patriot roller ball pen from PSI. I absolutely love the smoothness of the threading, but I cannot find a comparable capped pen with less of the bling that would allow me to make a nice functional roller ball pen at a reasonable price. Now granted, I have not tried out all of the various roller ball pens that are available on the market, but that would take a lot of time and expense just to find one that is acceptable as far as both appealing in looks and dependable in function. There probably is one out there but I'm still searching for the perfect combination and have not found it yet.

And the lack of a good clicker slimline pen kit is still just baffling to me.

Thanks for your contribution to the discussion.


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## Smitty37

SkewedUp said:


> magpens said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have been wondering myself for a long time why there is no slimline clicker.
> 
> I have come to the conclusion that it might be a matter of patent infringement.
> 
> I have taken apart a number of those giveaway pens that you get from real estate agents and others, and even in the mail from charitable organizations asking for donations.  Those pens are incredibly cheap to produce, extremely simple in their design, and usually extremely reliable (except perhaps for the refill life).
> 
> I even substituted a Parker refill for the cheap refill in one giveaway pen and the mechanism works, with no modifications except a minor enlargement of the end hole where the refill tip exits and retracts.
> 
> There is no reason why a pen kit maker such as Dayacom could not adapt such a design to a 7 mm kit format, with minimal parts size change only.
> 
> The makers of those cheap giveaway pens have obviously done some clever design engineering and are making a lot of money in selling their cheap pens by the billions. The Dayacoms have to know all about those designs. The designs must be protected by patents.
> 
> There is another factor too.  The kit pen industry seems to be driven by manufacturer push and not by market pull.  Take a look at all the "different" new pen kits that have appeared in the last few years.  There is really nothing new in them conceptually.  A skull on top; a different bullet design on the bottom; a differently-shaped center band - but the same (marginally functional) old mechanism inside.  And we all have to buy a couple to try them out.  They know we'll buy their kits whatever they produce.
> 
> If we all stood up and demanded a re-engineering of the mechanisms, including a 7 mm clicker design do you think they would listen ?
> 
> But no .... we buy whatever they put on the market.  Pen turners are at the mercy of the pen kit manufacturers.  We're wimps.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good points Mal. I know I have to try out the new designs to see if one might be what I'm looking for. And the designs seem to all have at least one thing about them that I don't really like. It seems like they have someone designing their pens who does not know much about making pens and what makes them appealing. I've tried giving my input but it seems to be ignored so they must have some people they rely on for input but not the average pen turner.
> 
> One great example is the new American Patriot roller ball pen from PSI. I absolutely love the smoothness of the threading, but I cannot find a comparable capped pen with less of the bling that would allow me to make a nice functional roller ball pen at a reasonable price. Now granted, I have not tried out all of the various roller ball pens that are available on the market, but that would take a lot of time and expense just to find one that is acceptable as far as both appealing in looks and dependable in function. There probably is one out there but I'm still searching for the perfect combination and have not found it yet.
> 
> And the lack of a good clicker slimline pen kit is still just baffling to me.
> 
> Thanks for your contribution to the discussion.
Click to expand...

 A number of the kit manufacturers are also "pen" manufacturers producing hundreds of thousands or millions of 'promotional' and other ballpoint pens.  If they had a mechanism to make a slimline size click pen kit, I'm pretty sure they would make one - what would their reason not to be? Cross offers a slimline sized pen/pencil ranging from around $50 to $300 in price but not with a click version...I'd guess there is a reason for that.

Additionally there are the pen maker's (Mont Blanc for instance) producing the really expensive pens for which 'money is no object' I don't see 7mm (slimline) size click pens coming from them either.

As far as the manufacturer driving the design of kit pens, I have some problem thinking about how it can be otherwise.  Keep in mind that the kit pen industry (if you even want to call it an industry) is tiny when compared to the pen industry in general.  It is quite highly diversified with a pretty wide variety of styles and sizes offered.  How many of us want to bear the cost of developing a new pen design?


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## KenV

Price point has a lot to do with it --  

If I was to develop such a pen component set, it would need to sell for approximately $20-$25 with a volume of about 10,000 units a year.   

The price point is high, and that volume is very likely not reachable.  

The volumes need to be one or two orders of magnitude higher to bring the unit price down.  

At the same time, there is nothing to stop the "basement engineer/machinist" from custom producing a small run with CNC mills --  but not for sale at a commodity price.


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## TonyL

PSI Trimline offers a click.


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## Smitty37

TonyL said:


> PSI Trimline offers a click.


That is a pencil Tony...not a ballpoint pen.  Also available in slimline kits.


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## TonyL

I stand corrected. I thought I saw it in their catalogue yesterday. Thank you for the correction. Please forgive the misguided advice.


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## SkewedUp

So what is so special about a pen that it can't be made in a slimline click version, but a pencil slimline is no problem. I would guess there are fewer pencil kits sold than there would be click slimline pen kits sold if they were available. I'm still baffled.

And I have had a few potential customers who only wanted a click pen, not a twist. 

Who knows...maybe discussions like this will make someone take notice and design a slimline click pen kit.


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## Smitty37

The pencil mechanism fits in a 7mm tube and it is nothing at all like the click mechanisms that exist for pen kits. It is the whole length of the pen and what is actually moving is a 5mm to 7mm piece of pencil lead, not a pen refill.  I have never examined one to see if it could possibly be modified to work with a pen. Additionally the pencil mechanism does not retract the lead, if you want to do that you have to operate the mechanism and push the lead back with your finger.


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## Gord K.

To quote Smitty, "Cross offers a slimline sized pen/pencil ranging from around $50 to $300 in price but not with a click version..."

I have a Cross pen and pencil set and a Cross Gel Click pen. With respect, the Cross Gel Click pen and the regular Cross twist pen are almost the same diameter with the click pen being slightly larger and less than one eighth of an inch longer.


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## Smitty37

Gord K. said:


> To quote Smitty, "Cross offers a slimline sized pen/pencil ranging from around $50 to $300 in price but not with a click version..."
> 
> I have a Cross pen and pencil set and a Cross Gel Click pen. With respect, the Cross Gel Click pen and the regular Cross twist pen are almost the same diameter with the click pen being slightly larger and less than one eighth of an inch longer.


With all due respect, I've had a set of their chrome slims for 30 years myself, their gel click is in fact bigger than a slimline. 

I asked a very large manufacturer who provides millions of pens (promotional and branded for different stores etc.) all over the world if they had or knew of a pen click mechanism the would work in a 7mm tube.  They told me 7.8mm id was as small and they had available.


----------

