# Fuel war



## workinforwood (Sep 12, 2008)

The highway was backing up on the way home.  I get down the ramp eventually and find, no accident.  Everyone is at the gas station, the line goes out to the highway.  I drove by and in to town, same thing.  All the gas stations have traffic backed up for blocks, police directing traffic. People just standing and chatting in the streets.  I heard 40 miles up the road, $6.95 a gallon.  I joined in the parking lot, filled up at $3.91.  Mostly I filled her up because I was low on fuel and the thought occurred to me that if I don't get fuel now, the gas stations are going to run out and I will get none at all!  I can't confirm $7/gallon, just heresay at the moment.


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## workinforwood (Sep 12, 2008)

It is confirmed at $5 and rising in Lansing, MI for gas.


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## flyingmelon (Sep 12, 2008)

$3.63 on the way to work. $4.25 on the way home. Gotta love any reason for them to up the price. I know costs are going to go up because of he Hurricane but the fuel that is in their storage takes now didn't cost them that much to produce.


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## kirkfranks (Sep 12, 2008)

got mine this morning for $3.29, but I won't tell where.


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## Monty (Sep 12, 2008)

Blame it on Ike. That's the oil companies thinking to gouge us.


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## stevers (Sep 12, 2008)

Glad I filled up yesterday. 
Cant believe this, it finally shows some signs of getting down and they pull this. Evidently they don't learn anything. The higher it is, the less we drive. Dumb-a__es


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## DenverPenMan (Sep 12, 2008)

$3.63 a gallon in Denver.


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## Gary Max (Sep 12, 2008)

Folks here in Ky where lined up buying gas today------prices jumped 40 cents per gallon over night-----just think of the people that made a killing selling Gas today.


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## Snorton20 (Sep 12, 2008)

Here in VA up towards DC It went up 30 cents to 379 a gallon expected to hit 5 or more shortly.  I know this because I work at the station.  The funny thing is we get get the customers that get mad at the people behind the register.  Like it's their fault.  We get a call from corporate and have no choice gut to raise the prices.  Nothing like being in the line of fire.


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## redfishsc (Sep 12, 2008)

Raleigh, NC--- was around $3.80 in the morning, a lot of places now at nearly $5. 


This is stupid. America knows it's price gouging. 


We know it's a bunch of bullcrap. The hurricanes have not disrupted gas that bad. 


Why the heck can we not retaliate and show these companies that we aren't putting up with this crap? I wouldn't even know how (other than enjoying the 90+ mpg I get on the 50cc scooter I drive to make my usual 4 miles a day instead of using our family car).


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## TellicoTurning (Sep 12, 2008)

This keeps up, I may have to follow up on my joke to the wife to go Amish and get a horse and buggy.


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## Gary Max (Sep 12, 2008)

Chuck if I had enough pasture to feed a horse.---- What we do is stay home----I go to town once a week to get food---that's it----if I forget something we just do without.
We don't even want to talk about the cost of doing shows driving a Dodge 4x4  getting 14 mpg.


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## dalemcginnis (Sep 12, 2008)

I can't believe it.  For once gas is actually cheaper in Ca than the rest of the country, $3.59


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## THarvey (Sep 12, 2008)

ozmandus said:


> This keeps up, I may have to follow up on my joke to the wife to go Amish and get a horse and buggy.




Use a mule.  You don't ever run out of gas with a mule.


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## bitshird (Sep 12, 2008)

Monty said:


> Blame it on Ike. That's the oil companies thinking to gouge us.



Mannie, You've got to be kidding  This morning Regular was 3.45 at 3:00 this afternoon it was 3.99 I just got back from town 3 out of 5 stations are out of regular and the two that have some left are rationing it to a 5 gal purchase and getting 4.35, across the line in Alabama  about 45 miles from me, it's 5.25, Damn it man we are no where close to the gulf.
 I remember when they pulled this crap on 911 gas went from 1.29 to 2.50 in a couple of hours. I was on an engineering job in Ar. when they did it, at least the Governor sued and fined the stations, I don't think any one got any money back but it was a nice gesture.
Don't we have a government that can control things like that, OOOOOOOOOOPS :handshake: I forgot


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## THarvey (Sep 12, 2008)

bitshird said:


> Mannie, You've got to be kidding  This morning Regular was 3.45 at 3:00 this afternoon it was 3.99 I just got back from town 3 out of 5 stations are out of regular and the two that have some left are rationing it to a 5 gal purchase and getting 4.35, across the line in Alabama  about 45 miles from me, it's 5.25, Damn it man we are no where close to the gulf.
> I remember when they pulled this crap on 911 gas went from 1.29 to 2.50 in a couple of hours. I was on an engineering job in Ar. when they did it, at least the Governor sued and fined the stations, I don't think any one got any money back but it was a nice gesture.
> Don't we have a government that can control things like that, OOOOOOOOOOPS :handshake: I forgot



Alabama's Governor declared a "State of Emergency" with regard to fuel supplies this afternoon.  That means it is now illegal to charge "unconscienable" rate for gas.

So...........Does that mean it was legal to gouge us before?


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## Texatdurango (Sep 12, 2008)

Having a diesel truck, I usually buy fuel at truck stops or travel centers such as Flying J, Loves, Petro, etc.

Reading this thread got me curious so I checked the current pricves in my town and elsewhere across the country.  Seems like the prices have not escalated yet as some are reporting in their localities.

I filled up in Tucumcari, New Mexico last Friday and now diesel is actually seven cents a gallon cheaper!  Their gasoline prices are still in line as well.

The only thing I can make out of this is that some of the larger chains are not as much into price gouging as much as our fine upstanding American citizens at the local corner convenience store stations are!

Curious to see if the local Flying J has raised their price from what's posted on the internet, I called them and low and behold they did chang... down three cents from yesterday!


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## dwdwoodwork (Sep 12, 2008)

Yeah, it's just a bunch of price gouging.  Why do gas prices need to go up in MI when there are oil refineries close to Detroit.  There are also oil refineries in Northwest IN and IL that are not in the "path of Ike" so why raise the prices so high.  There is also a "tank farm" about 70 miles from where we live in AL.  I don't understand it.  I think this is just an excuse to raise the prices to $5 or more and then when Ike is over the prices won't come back down to what they were before Ike hit. After all the oil companies need the money since they aren't making a big enough profit already.  (about $10 billion per quarter)

Dom

don't burn one turn one


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## OKLAHOMAN (Sep 12, 2008)

Tex, here in beautiful Shawnee, Ok the local Wal-Mart super store went up from $3.25 to $3.59 in less than a 5 hrs. so its not just the Local stop and robs.


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## fiferb (Sep 12, 2008)

The SC Attorney General at noon today enacted the price gouging law and there is a phone number that people can call to report gouging. Don't know if it will any good or not. Fortunately I filled all our vehicles and the lawn mower gas can up earlier this week at $3.36 so we should be good for awhile.


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## maxwell_smart007 (Sep 13, 2008)

Why do prices in Canada go up during a US spike, when we sell oil to the US?  There is no logic when it comes to oil...

Are there any quantum physicists in the group who can puzzle out the alternate laws that guide oil prices?  Other than greed, that is!  

Nope, until we decide to run our cars on wood (in which case Canada will be the new fuel capital!), we're stuck paying every time there's a 'perceived crisis', or as I like to call them 'gouging opportunity'....

Time to buy a Stanley Steamer!


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## GBusardo (Sep 13, 2008)

This isn't the oil companies gouging us, its the gas stations.  I got gas last night ($3.22) because I thought gas would go up some this morning. sure enough, I seen the chapest at $3.39. Did all the gas stations get a tanker in last night?  Of course not.  The stations are feeding on our fears of a shortage.  Ticks me off. Hopefully things will calm down next week when I need gas again.


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## ldb2000 (Sep 13, 2008)

Sorry to say Gary , it's not the stations , it IS the oil companies and our wonderful government . It's just that in the Peoples Republic of New Jersey , where we are to dumb to be allowed to pump our own gas , the state government has laws that don't allow the stations to change their prices more then once a day , so when the stations call for their daily deliveries they are told to post the higher prices because they can't change them later in the day when their deliveries come


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## Gary Max (Sep 13, 2008)

Plus  there's more if you think about it---the state taxs every penny of the gas ---the hight the price the more the state makes.
We just get the short end of the deal any way it goes.


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## beck3906 (Sep 13, 2008)

I work in an industry that assists convenience stores setup their accounting systems.  Having seen the accounting process, I know that the c-stores typically make very little margin on their fuel sales.  You really need the volume in sales to make any significant profit.

Taxes are typically a fixed amount in each state.  The federal gasoline tax is 18.4  cents per gallon on regular gasoline without ethanol blends.  State fuel excise tax is typically around 20 cents per gallon in most states.  Many states have other fixed tax rates for things such as underground storage tank fees, environmental taxes, etc.  The states that have a fuel sales tax such as Illinois and New York allow for a tax based upon the actual pump sales price.

Most convenience store operators make around 10-15 cents per gallon margin on good times.  Remember that they must pay for utilities, labor, etc from these margins.  I see some store operators that are pulling fuel out of their stores and going to other services such as up-scale delis, groceries, etc to make up for the lost fuel sales.

Many of the price increases over the last several months was due to speculation in the oil futures market.  I have heard reports that one of the biggest speculators were retirement funds.  Hmmmm....  

As the refineries are closed here in Texas, the supply of fuel will be severely affected.  The law of supply and demand will kick in.  The fuel in the store's tanks may be bought at a lower price than what the "replacement cost" of fuel will be.  Remember that the convenience store operator will have expensive fuel in the tank when the prices start going down.


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## Chuck Key (Sep 13, 2008)

*LUST Fund?*



beck3906 said:


> other fixed tax rates for things such as underground storage tank fees
> 
> Hmmmm....


 
Are you refering to the Leaking Underground Storage Tank (LUST) Funds?


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## beck3906 (Sep 13, 2008)

States call them many different things.  It's basically a tax that provides contingency funds to cleanup leaks and such from storage tanks, etc.


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## beck3906 (Sep 13, 2008)

Check this site if you're looking for locations with the lowest gas prices.  Just enter your zip code and a list of stations will be displayed.

http://www.gasbuddy.com/


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## btboone (Sep 13, 2008)

My question is if gasoline is so important to the US ecomomy, why do we have only 5 refineries!?  It seems like there should be dozens of them scattered around for just this type of scenareo.  Strong hurricanes aren't going away any time soon.


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## beck3906 (Sep 13, 2008)

Not sure why you think there are only 5 refinereis, but...
Valero has 14 refinieries in the US alone, plus 1 in  Canade and 1 in Aruba
Marathon Oil has 7 refineries listed
BP Oil has a number of refineries across the US
Exxon lists 2 in the US and 4 in Canada
Motiva (Shell) lists 3 refineries in the gulf coast region.

These are just some of the big names.  There are a number of smaller refineries across the country that have small daily outputs.  I was just reading about a small refinery in the last couple of weeks that had been ordered to be auctioned due to a bankruptcy.

Most refinieries are located along the coastal areas as that is where the port operations allow for the most efficiency.  However, the pipelines allow refineries inland for distibution to terminals from there.


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## wolftat (Sep 13, 2008)

I just ran down and filled up my tank, it was $3.73 a gallon, yesterday it was $3.59 when I filled up my other truck. This is getting nuts and I'm supposed to drive 600 miles on Tuesday for work, I hope they are raising the milage reimbursement amounts too.


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## workinforwood (Sep 13, 2008)

Drove through our little town this morning and gas is flowing again at $4.49/gallon.  That's almost a dollar up from earlier in the week.


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## bdonald (Sep 13, 2008)

workinforwood said:


> Drove through our little town this morning and gas is flowing again at $4.49/gallon.  That's almost a dollar up from earlier in the week.



Yeah, I filled up here in Allen Park yesterday for 3.89 while I was out, and today down my street in Detroit it was 4.69.  Lets see if the Governor and AG hold true to thier word and go after these price gougers, like they said on the news last night.


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## Russianwolf (Sep 13, 2008)

Gary Max said:


> Plus  there's more if you think about it---the state taxs every penny of the gas ---the hight the price the more the state makes.
> We just get the short end of the deal any way it goes.



Not ture Gary, Gas taxes are a fixed amount per gallon, not a percentage. I have a website around here somewhere that show the tax rates for every state.

here we go http://www.commonsensejunction.com/notes/gas-tax-rate.html
not exactly the one I was thinking of, but it works. Now some states do charge sales tax on top of the gas tax, and that tends to be a percentage.


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## tbroye (Sep 13, 2008)

Heard about the skyrocketing prices becuase of Ike. Went this morning about 9amPDT and the prices were the same but the stations were busy for a Saturday morning at that time. I think people were worried the prices would jump up. Even the normally high priced station were busy. I filled up LOML's Expedition at $3.66 a gallon same as yesterday for my Toyata Tacoma. I expect the prices to rise but why I have no Idea as most of Californias Gas is refiend in So Cal or in Northern Ca over by San Francisco. Feel sorry for you who are getting gouged, Be interesting to find out if it was a retailers idea or the supplier.


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## gerryr (Sep 13, 2008)

beck3906 said:


> Not sure why you think there are only 5 refinereis, but...
> Valero has 14 refinieries in the US alone, plus 1 i  Canade and 1 in Aruba
> Marathon Oil has 7 refineries listed
> BP Oil has a number of refineries across the US
> ...



I will add to this.  There are two refineries in Billings, Exxon and Conoco.  There's a CHS refinery in Laurel, about 20 miles west.  There's a Sinclair refinery in Casper, WY and another one in Sinclair, WY.  There's also a Tesoro refinery in Mandan, ND.  I think there's another refinery in Great Falls, MT but could be way off base on that.  That's at least 6 within about 300 miles of where I live.  But, all the output from the Exxon and CHS refineries is shipped out of state:befuddled:  That means the gas and diesel for the local Exxon and Cenex stations is brought in from some other state.


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## VisExp (Sep 13, 2008)

gerryr said:


> all the output from the Exxon and CHS refineries is shipped out of state:befuddled: That means the gas and diesel for the local Exxon and Cenex stations is brought in from some other state.


 
Sounds just like Florida citrus.  All the best stuff is shipped out of state and all you see in the store here is either from California or South Africa.  Sure seems like a lot of energy is wasted importing oranges and grapefruit to Florida


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## itsme_timd (Sep 13, 2008)

Sitting at dinner last night we watched the station across the street change from $3.55 to $4.09... crazy.


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## DCBluesman (Sep 14, 2008)

Filled up this evening at $3.35/gallon.  I don't think that's up at all over the past couple of days.  I guess not everyone has heard that we're out of gasoline.


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## wolftat (Sep 14, 2008)

The governor in CT is doing a study as to why the gas prices went up and will start fining the stations for gouging. That's the normal procedure, too little, too late. The local station is up $.75 since Friday. I have always suspected the owner set his gas prices by how he does at the casino.


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## Monty (Sep 14, 2008)

I know why, I know why. I read just the other day that demand was down over the past several months so the oil companies must be raising the price to make up for selling less gas :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:
Don't know what it is here in Pearland today. No stations open yet since Ike and all the signs are down. Regular was anywhere from $3.39 to $3.59 in Thursday. It will be interesting to see what the price is when the stations begin reopening around here in the next few days.


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## GoodTurns (Sep 14, 2008)

wolftat said:


> I just ran down and filled up my tank, it was $3.73 a gallon, yesterday it was $3.59 when I filled up my other truck. This is getting nuts and I'm supposed to drive 600 miles on Tuesday for work, I hope they are raising the milage reimbursement amounts too.



http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=184163,00.html

helps a little...MANY companies follow the IRS numbers...


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## Poppy (Sep 15, 2008)

ldb2000 said:


> Sorry to say Gary , it's not the stations , it IS the oil companies and our wonderful government . It's just that in the Peoples Republic of New Jersey , where we are to dumb to be allowed to pump our own gas , the state government has laws that don't allow the stations to change their prices more then once a day , so when the stations call for their daily deliveries they are told to post the higher prices because they can't change them later in the day when their deliveries come


Sorry to say that is not true either Butch, the local NBC news said tonight that spokespersons for two oil companys, Shell was one forget the other that at this time they are allowing stations to set their own prices but suggesting they use discretion. (yah right)prices in our area are running anywhere from $3.69 to $5.25 pr gal 89 octane.


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## ldb2000 (Sep 15, 2008)

Bob , What I was talking about is the fact that the stations can only change their prices once in a 24 hour period here in this state , so the stations call their distributors for the current cost when they open and then post the daily prices based on the price they will pay when their deliveries arrive . Most stations in this state only make about 10 to 15 cents per gallon on gasoline .
I managed a Mobil station (company owned) for a while and we were TOLD what prices to post and I was good friends with the manager of a Shell station (also company owned) across the street and he was also TOLD what prices to post and those prices were 12 cents above what we were paying , so I'm not so sure if I would believe every word a COMPANY SPOKESMAN says .
This was here in NJ , I'm not sure if it works the same where you live , but I would think it is .


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