# Is o1 tool steel best for a homebrewed lathe tool?



## DaveM (Dec 16, 2012)

I am going to make a couple of small home made woodturning tools.  I will be making a couple of miniature scrapers and a pair of 1/4" square skews on the diagonal.  I am pretty convinced that O1 tool steel, while pretty pricey for a small stick, is my best bet for the home workshop.  I will be heat treating it with a propane torch and tempering in an oven.  I may sacrifice a cheap existing tool or chisel to make the scrapers, but I am going to have to buy the square stock.  

My thoughts are that water hardened is a bit dangerous for the home workshop, and air hardened takes more equipment than I have. (And won't work for a cutting edge when it's done)  Any of the high speed steels will probably lose most of their advantages during the ham fisted tempering.  I sort of know how to do oil quenching, as I did it when I made and modified my own fishhooks back in the '80s.  (Probably don't want to dunk a lathe tool in a Dixie cup of veggie oil though!)

I figure that I can heat the 1/4 inch stuff with a standard propane torch and a couple of firebricks for a forge, and dunk it into a large tin can of cooking oil.  Am I missing anything here?  Should I look for another type of steel, or is O1 the most foolproof one out there.  Anything I should know about this.  I am working from a decades old metallurgy course where we quenched and tempered different types of steel and all of the info out there on the net.  I need to make a few special profiles for small turnings.

Thanks in advance,
Dave


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## switch62 (Dec 16, 2012)

I was writing a reply, decided to check my facts, I was wrong

But I did find this A Woodworker's Guide to Tool Steel and Heat Treating . It might be useful.

TonyO


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## edstreet (Dec 16, 2012)

DaveM said:


> I am going to make a couple of small home made woodturning tools.  I will be making a couple of miniature scrapers and a pair of 1/4" square skews on the diagonal.  I am pretty convinced that O1 tool steel, while pretty pricey for a small stick, is my best bet for the home workshop.  I will be heat treating it with a propane torch and tempering in an oven.  I may sacrifice a cheap existing tool or chisel to make the scrapers, but I am going to have to buy the square stock.
> 
> My thoughts are that water hardened is a bit dangerous for the home workshop, and air hardened takes more equipment than I have. (And won't work for a cutting edge when it's done)  Any of the high speed steels will probably lose most of their advantages during the ham fisted tempering.  I sort of know how to do oil quenching, as I did it when I made and modified my own fishhooks back in the '80s.  (Probably don't want to dunk a lathe tool in a Dixie cup of veggie oil though!)
> 
> ...



No, dont discredit 'water hardening' as W2 is far superior to O1 any day of the week when it comes to chisels.  O1 may be easier to sharpen but W2 will stay sharp longer.

While O1 does make a good knife it is listed more for abrasion resistance, i.e. Abrasion resistant cutting tools- Blanking Dies,Jewelers Hobs, Engraving Tools, Paper Knives, Forming Tools, Taps (Hand), Gauges, Trim Dies, Broaches, drill bushings, knurling tools, reamers, taps, cold forming and bending dies, master tools, drawing dies, punches,coining dies, plastic molds, rubber molds etc..

W2 however, Blanking tools, Chisels, Shear blades, Drills, Glass Cutters,Lathe tools, Reamers, Hand Taps and Dies,Twist Drills,Woodworking Tools,Wear Plates, Razor Blades. 

You use oil on W2 just the same as you would on O1.  Having said that both will work with good results.  As for depth of hardness that really depends on the style you are working on.  The only style that would/could give you some fits is gouges. Most of them use M2 and post cuts.

As for A2 that is probably one of the easier ones to work with due to how it hardens.

If you have the right setup you can get a bar of treated M2 and grind that to shape and use that for any chisel that you can think of.

The final thing you have to be very mindful of is the grain size on the torch usage.  It can grow if you are not careful.  Assuming you are starting from a spheroid annealed state that is.


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## DaveM (Dec 17, 2012)

Thanks for the info.  I looked at that site, and there is a lot of good info there.  That was one of the reasons I decided on the O1.  I bookmarked it. and will refer to it again before I launch into this.

Looking at W2, I could oil quench it.  I wouldn't get as hard a quench as I would with water, but I would temper it the same?  

I am not looking at gouges.  I am looking at making a couple of 1/4 x 1/4 diagonal skews like Springett uses on bobbins, and a couple of 1/4 x 1/8 tools with square, round and offset tips.  I may turn pans with my 1 1/2" Alan Lacer Signature skew, but turning little recessed things like insides of thimbles and bobbins takes some miniature tools.

Looks like half the hassle with W2 will be finding it!  Travers tool has O1, and so do Graingers (At a pretty high price) and McMaster Carr.   With the M2, are you talking about getting bar stock that is already tempered, and just shaping it on the Tormek? 

I remember grain size being an issue in one of my past classes, but I don't remember much about how to prevent it except to not heat the metal too long.  I will look that up.  Is it the Pearlite grains that are the problem?  

Thanks again for the replies.  I will look at the W2, A2 andM2 blanks when the McMaster Carr site stops acting up on me.


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## edstreet (Dec 17, 2012)

Naa give Aldo a call at NJ steel baron, he has it custom made for the knife community.  One good thing about it is vanadium 


















Yea you can grind M2 but cant heat it, bucket of water and keep it cool.   Other choices would be V10, all of these beauties have high V.


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## edstreet (Dec 17, 2012)

If you can locate someone that has the equipment to properly heat treat M2 then that would make things much easier to form then sent to treat.


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## rherrell (Dec 17, 2012)

I don't know where you're going to buy your material but it's not pricey where I get mine....
Enco - Guaranteed Lowest Prices on Machinery, Tools and Shop Supplies


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## randywa (Dec 17, 2012)

I don't know if this is any help to you. 

http://www.hiltonhandcraft.com/Articles/Making%20your%20own%20Turning%20Tool%20HeatTreating.pdf


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## monophoto (Dec 17, 2012)

Check out the latest issue of Woodturning Design.  John Lucas has an article on making small skews from old paddle bits.  One of the points he makes is that because he's never sure what kind of steel he's working with, he don't bother trying to heat treat the skews he makes.  The lack of heat treating would most probably result in accelerated wear and the need for more frequent sharpening, but John says that has never been a problem with the tools he has made.


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## edstreet (Dec 17, 2012)

It is impossible to back yard heat treat M2 tool steel properly.  You need very specialized equipment that is expensive.  Vacuum electric kiln that is very sensitive, salt bath, triple tempering and sub null degree's.  Once you have the equipment you then need to tweak the formula for the equipment.


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## DaveM (Dec 17, 2012)

Thanks for all of the responses.  I checked out the websites, and found a lot more good info.  I don't see the W2 in the sizes I need, and it is very expensive compared to the others.  If I get my tool design worked out so that I really like it, then I may make another copy in W2, OR M2, but for right now, I have to consider this a quick and dirty prototype stage.  I have pretty easy access to W1 and O1 I can get A1 in one of the sizes but not the other.  W1 is about half the price of the O1.  I will probably order some steel tomorrow night and see what happens when it gets here.  

Any final thoughts on W1 vs O1?


Dave


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## edstreet (Dec 17, 2012)

W1 is what files are made from.  Seriously tho, pick up the telephone and call Aldo, tell him I sent you he will setup you up with W2 and other stuff to, often times teh website is not listed as being in stock because the stock may be low level.


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## bradh (Dec 17, 2012)

Alan Lacer has an article on hook tools made from O1. He recommends MAPP gas rather than propane:
alanlacer.com - Hook Tool Handout


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## edstreet (Dec 17, 2012)

Lets not bring this down to a fuel problem because it is not one right now.


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## edstreet (Dec 17, 2012)

OH sorry forgot, W1 is practically W2 but with no vanadium, meaning nothing to keep it hard.

W1 would work just as well as O1.  I would not discredit either for use. But given W, Mn and V I would go with the higher yield one if it was me.


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## frank123 (Dec 17, 2012)

Personally, I'd say any of the high carbon steeels would work fine.  My personal choice of easily worked and easily heat treated steel would be 1095, but O1 is an option I've worked with as well.  Both readily obtainable in assorted shapes.

Heat treating either of them -as with the majority of carbon steels, is just a matter of bring it up t the temperature where it is o longer magnetic, holding it there for a few minutes then quenching it (in water -actually brine- oil or air cooling maybe plate cooling in place of just air).  Important" after hardening it needs to be heated again to a lower temperature to make it tough instead of brittle.  The rockewll hardness will decrease some, according to the tempering temperature, but it will make it durable and less prone to breakage.  A propane or (better) MAPP torch will work for heat hardening (laying the piece on a soft fire brick will make it faster by far) and a kitchen oven will work for the tempering operation.

You can heat treat O1 or 1095 in oil, most people use something like olive oil but any oil will work, I usually use used motor oil.  The oil will very likely flare up so do this outside and away from flammables, if it doesn't flare up it will smoke a lot and I usually just light the smoke to keep it from smoking and smelling up the shop.

If you have some extra liquid nitrogen on hand cryogenic treatment followed by a second tempering will greatly increase edge holding ability and if not cold treating -almost but not quite cryogenic- in a bath of isopropyl alcohol and dry ice (99%, not 70%) will also increase edge holding but not as much as liquid nitrogen.    Some steels respond very exceedingly well to cryo, some not so well but still improve.  O1 and 1095 seem to respond OK, not at the bottom of the heap but not quite up to the middle of it either.


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## Paul in OKC (Dec 17, 2012)

Made a couple of gouges out of drill rod some time ago. Heated and quenched in oil. Works great.


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