# New Washers for TBC by penturners products



## 65GTMustang (Apr 6, 2011)

Good morning,
I have made up my mind to bit the bullet and change out my current mandrel system / bushings for turn by center bushings
Before making my shopping list
I was hoping a few might have some knowledge of the 
Sizing Washers that are offered from John.
The descriptions I read do not list specific pens for specific washer sizes.
Can anyone shed some light on how they work with different kits?
Is it a good deal or should the normal TBC bushings be used?
Thanks
Kevin


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## Andrew_K99 (Apr 6, 2011)

I just had a thought that could save those wishing to convert from mandrel turning to turning between centers!

Instead of new bushings for each kit make an adaptor bushing that has a 60° countersink to fit onto the dead/live centers and a stub (male end) to accept your current bushings.

Like this:

​ 
Maybe add a small magnet in there to hold the adaptor and bushing together and it theoretically would work great. 

AK


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## turbowagon (Apr 6, 2011)

I think these washers are more for sizing up accessories like centerbands.  If you click on the link it mentions the application:

SR 406 Sizing Washer
Fits clip and tenon on 7mm European.

SR 421 Sizing Washer
Fits lower at centerband on 7mm European, and centerband on 7mm Streamline/ Comfort style.

SR 468 Sizing Washer
Fits Base (primer end) of .308, .30-06, .270 rifle casings, for making cartridge pens.

SR 514 Sizing Washer
Fits centerband on 7mm European (Berea brand).

SR 548 Sizing Washer
Fits Razor handle fittings, Berea brand with 7mm tube.

- Joe


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## Mack C. (Apr 6, 2011)

Andrew_K99 said:


> I just had a thought that could save those wishing to convert from mandrel turning to turning between centers!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Mack C. (Apr 6, 2011)

turbowagon said:


> I think these washers are more for sizing up accessories like centerbands. If you click on the link it mentions the application:
> 
> SR 406 Sizing Washer
> Fits clip and tenon on 7mm European.
> ...


I think the idea of the washers was put forth to johnnycnc by Larry from Harrow. They were intended for use with one set of 7mm bushings interchanging washers as need.
 
Hopefully Larry will chime in here, and correct me if I'm in error or add to my explanation.


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## Andrew_K99 (Apr 6, 2011)

Mack C. said:


> Andrew_K99 said:
> 
> 
> > I just had a thought that could save those wishing to convert from mandrel turning to turning between centers!
> ...


The stub (male end) would be the same diameter as your mandrel.

So when mounted you would have:
Dead center > Adaptor > Bushing > Blank < Bushing < Adaptor < Live Center

The benefit is that you can use standard bushings to turn between centers.

AK


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## TexasTaxi (Apr 6, 2011)

I'm new to all this "turn between centers" talk ... why couldn't you just use the regular bushings?
Will they slip?


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## Andrew_K99 (Apr 6, 2011)

TexasTaxi said:


> I'm new to all this "turn between centers" talk ... why couldn't you just use the regular bushings?
> Will they slip?


They need to have a 60° countersink to fit over your live/dead centers.

AK


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## TexasTaxi (Apr 6, 2011)

Andrew_K99 said:


> TexasTaxi said:
> 
> 
> > I'm new to all this "turn between centers" talk ... why couldn't you just use the regular bushings?
> ...


 
I understand that, but the 60 degree centers will still center themselves in a regular bushing, but it will only touch it around the "edge" if you will.


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## Andrew_K99 (Apr 6, 2011)

TexasTaxi said:


> Andrew_K99 said:
> 
> 
> > TexasTaxi said:
> ...


I've never turned between centers but I think with so little contact the bushing may rotate but I could be wrong.


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## TexasTaxi (Apr 6, 2011)

Seems like if it did spin, you could just ream the bushing out, with a countersink, to match the 60 degree center.

It'll be a while before I get to that level, but my mechanical mind is always turning. (no pun intended :wink: )


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## Larry in Harrow (Apr 6, 2011)

Mack C. said:


> turbowagon said:
> 
> 
> > I think these washers are more for sizing up accessories like centerbands. If you click on the link it mentions the application:
> ...


 
When I first started making custom sized Slimlines I questioned John Goodin about his bushing sizes. He mentioned that there were just too many sizes and there always seemed to be one more size needed. Inventory for them was a pain. I suggested a "Sizing Gauge Washer" system that only required one size of bushing, the original 7mm Slimline set, and a group of gauged washers. The washers would be easier to inventory and ship and cheaper to make, therefore cheaper for his customers.  See ( http://penturnersproducts.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=2_26 )
He made a trial set for me and they worked great. John now offers 5 different sizes for the different 7mm tubed kits. He is a great guy to work with so I'm sure he would try to accommodate any custom size washer you might need. I've had good luck with them and think they are a good investment if you want to go to turning between centers and do the 7mm kits. Simple to use, you just install the size of washer needed on the 7mm bushing before putting it in the blank. Turn your blank to the gauge size and your done. You can now use his Delrin bushing (or Eliminators) to complete the sanding and finishing steps.



This has been a public service announcement from the "Elect John Goodin President Committee"


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## skiprat (Apr 6, 2011)

Andrew_K99 said:


> I just had a thought ..........AK


 
LOL, Andrew, great minds think alike .... ( yeah yeah, I know the rest of the phrase:tongue: ) 

Drilling the existing bushes to match the centres was mentioned  with photos in this recent thread:wink:


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## Andrew_K99 (Apr 6, 2011)

skiprat said:


> Andrew_K99 said:
> 
> 
> > I just had a thought ..........AK
> ...



My thought wasn't to drill your existing bushings but introduce an adaptor bushings to let you use all you mandrel style bushings without modification.  I'd buy them if anyone offered them.

AK


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## striperskin (Apr 6, 2011)

my eyes are glasing over with all this bushing..live center..countersink..etc, ill think ill go see if the wife is in the mood..haha did i say that out loud!! (silly me she watching american idol)


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## Andrew_K99 (Apr 6, 2011)

striperskin said:


> my eyes are glasing over with all this bushing..live center..countersink..etc, ill think ill go see if the wife is in the mood..haha did i say that out loud!! (silly me she watching american idol)



First LMAO

And all the bushing we use is why an adaptor set for turning between centers is IMO a great idea!  It seems TBC is what people convert in to time and changing all their bushing must be a pain.

AK


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## Rob73 (Apr 6, 2011)

65GTMustang said:


> Good morning,
> I have made up my mind to bit the bullet and change out my current mandrel system / bushings for turn by center




I'm jumping on this train as well.  I've had enough with out of round even with new mandrel rods and no I don't push hard into the material


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## Lenny (Apr 6, 2011)

Andrew_K99 said:


> TexasTaxi said:
> 
> 
> > I'm new to all this "turn between centers" talk ... why couldn't you just use the regular bushings?
> ...


 
No they really don't, you can use stock bushings ... at least ones larger than 7mm. For 7mm pens johnnycnc's 7mm triple play set (which is what the original poster was refering to) is EXCELLENT and extremely versatile.

Now of course you CAN drill a 60 degree chamfer on your stock bushings to improve the contact with the 60 degree centers, using a center drill works well. 
But if anyone is thinking about trying turning between centers ... go ahead and give your stock bushings a try!  
Of course once you try John's bushings you will be spoiled.:wink:


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## Texatdurango (Apr 6, 2011)

Andrew_K99 said:


> .......It seems TBC is what people convert in to time *and changing all their bushing must be a pain*.
> 
> AK


 
Not necessarily!  You can use the bushings you have now, just grab a 60 degree center drill like one of these.... http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_search.php?critFast=center+drill .

Chuck your bushing in your lathe and drill one end with the 60 degree bit and you're all set!  

FYI, in case you haven't seen it, there is a tutorial on the IAP home page discussing turning between centers and believe it or not, it's not as complicated as some would have you believe nor does it require a huge financial investment so it's not a technique that one has to evolve to "over time" plus, it's written by a swell fellow!:biggrin:


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## Lenny (Apr 6, 2011)

Andrew_K99 said:


> striperskin said:
> 
> 
> > my eyes are glasing over with all this bushing..live center..countersink..etc, ill think ill go see if the wife is in the mood..haha did i say that out loud!! (silly me she watching american idol)
> ...


 
If you use an adaptor with a regular bushing aren't you just adding another chance for error? You can use stock bushings between centers. The only problem is MANY are poorly made and out of round to begin with.

Not saying your idea doesn't have some merit .... just wondering how it would work out and if it adds anything verses just using the stock bushings alone.


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## toolcrazy (Apr 6, 2011)

TexasTaxi said:


> I'm new to all this "turn between centers" talk ... why couldn't you just use the regular bushings?
> Will they slip?



I use the factory bushings to turn between centers all the time and I use a few of JohnnyCNC's bushings too. The factory bushings work just fine, even without the 60degree milling. Even though John's bushings are better quality, by far.


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## Andrew_K99 (Apr 7, 2011)

Thanks for all the information about TBC ... I have now been enlightened.  From the little I have read it seemed like you needed different bushings, hence my suggesting of an adaptor bushing.

AK


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## 65GTMustang (Apr 7, 2011)

It was a great response - Thanks to all!
I placed my order and confirmed everything with John just a few minutes ago!
I am now a *"Turn By Center Pen Turner"* and I am proud of it!
I don't have any money after feeling the need to purchase one of everything, but I have lots of wood and plenty of pen parts to keep my poor butt happy for a long time to come!
Kevin


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## Russianwolf (Apr 7, 2011)

I have just about every set of Johnny's bushings and love them. I think I was one of the first to get some from him and converted a long time ago.

If I'm trying out a new kit, I will buy the stock bushings and use them to TBC. Its not hard and takes no modification. Once I decide if I like the kit (and assuming Johnny has started making them) I buy johnny's for that kit.

Here's a quick list of reasons that I think his are better.

1) they are made of a much harder steel. Bushings have long been replaceable items. You use them for 50-100 pens then toss them. Johnny's have never worn enough to think about replacing.
2) in my experience there is less of the transfer from the bushings that can happen if you aren't careful. I think this is due to it being harder steel again.
3) MUCH BETTER Specs. Stock bushings can be slightly out of round, off center, and just plain sloppy. Johnny's are as close to perfect in spec as you can ask for. If you put two of Johnny's bushings in a tube then pull one out, they pop.

There are probably a couple more reasons, but those above are all the ones I need to keep buying.


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## 65GTMustang (Apr 7, 2011)

Those are great points.  I did not think about the transfer from bushing to pen....that will be a great benefit as I have discolored a number of pens with the regular type.
Thank you very much
I look forward to having my full set very soon!


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## Paul in OKC (Apr 7, 2011)

Lenny said:


> Andrew_K99 said:
> 
> 
> > striperskin said:
> ...



This was my thought as well. Not a bad idea, but too many things to mess with. I am one to agree that you can use regular bushings (except 7mm) to turn between centers. Dedicated ones are best, but not all together needed.


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## BSea (Apr 7, 2011)

65GTMustang said:


> It was a great response - Thanks to all!
> I placed my order and confirmed everything with John just a few minutes ago!
> I am now a *"Turn By Center Pen Turner"* and I am proud of it!
> I don't have any money after feeling the need to purchase one of everything, but I have lots of wood and plenty of pen parts to keep my poor butt happy for a long time to come!
> Kevin


That will probably save you a lot of money in the long run.  So far I've made 3 separate orders for bushings.  I should probably just buy a set of each one like you did.  Think of the shipping charges I'd save.

About the only thing I did different was that I started at the beginning with TBC.  When I was getting started, everything I read here told me that I'd do it sooner than later.  So I just thought if I was going to end up there, I'd just start there.


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## 65GTMustang (Apr 8, 2011)

My Savings account / I mean my new bushings are on there way!!!
I received shipping notice from John Last night.
I practically did get one of each....the only ones I did not order are the high end kit bushings - I bought a grab "box" of stuff from member months ago and it had all of the higher end TBC bushing included - Those alone would have been another $100 to $150?
Luckily I got box at a great price!


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