# Need advice on dust mask protection



## Strawboss (Feb 10, 2015)

Yep, I'm a newbie. I have my equipment and just about ready to start but could use advice on a dust mask. I can find plenty of disposable masks as well as reusable equipment. Must of the details on the containers are sketchy. So, I would like to hear from the experts! would do you recommend? What micron filtration do I need? Brand names and specs would be helpful. 

Like most I don't want to breathe the dust and some may be toxic. I noticed a lot of people in videos don't wear mask....partly because they're making a video. 

I have a Jet filtration system on the ceiling and a Jet dust collection system w/ a one micron filter. 

Your help would be appreciated

Strawboss (Bill)


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## TonyL (Feb 10, 2015)

I use this one and a face shield.  MSA Safety Works 817662 Paint and Pesticide Respirator - Safety Respirator Cartridges And Filters - Amazon.com


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## Ed McDonnell (Feb 10, 2015)

You didn't mention a budget.  If you have ~$400 you can spend on protecting your lungs you might take a look at a Trend Airshield Pro.  I've not regretted spending the money.

Ed


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## TonyL (Feb 10, 2015)

You won't go wrong with Ed's choice!


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## magier412 (Feb 10, 2015)

I agree with Ed....best money I ever spent...your lungs are kinda important.  

TREND AIR/PRO Airshield and Faceshield Dust Protector - Safety Equipment - Amazon.com


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## jttheclockman (Feb 10, 2015)

Strawboss, wow I haven't heard that term in 30 years when I worked in NY for 6 years. I was a traveler working out of town in a sister local #3 They used to call the Foreman on the job Strawbosses. 

As far as dust masks go a lot depends on the work you are doing and if you have allergies to materials used in the shop and weather you have a beard and things. But you got a few good answers above this. Good luck. Oh by the way a dust mask is only good if you remember to wear it and wear it even if you are done doing the task. Dust remains in the air a long time. You have the right tools to help in combating it to start with.


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## Strawboss (Feb 10, 2015)

Thanks for the help, asking people who actually use the equipment is far better than someone in a store


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## Magicbob (Feb 11, 2015)

I use the Resp-o-rator
Duxterity LLC


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## oneleggimp (Feb 12, 2015)

*Resp-O-Rator*



Magicbob said:


> I use the Resp-o-rator
> Duxterity LLC



Just looked at it.  

A Question if you don't mind:  It seems to filter all air coming into your Mouth but seems to leave your nostrils unprotected.  Seems like you'd still get dust your nose.  What happens about that??


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## ChrisN (Feb 12, 2015)

+1 on Tony's suggestion. That's what I use, and I like it. Now, if you have lots of money, go with the Trend.


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## jcm71 (Feb 12, 2015)

How does the Trend Airshield stack up against the 3M Powerflow?  Anyone have any first hand experience?


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## PapaTim (Feb 12, 2015)

I use a half mask like Tony but mine is by 3M. Covers my mouth and nose, fits under my face shield and is not uncomfortable. You can use replaceable dust or chemical filters with it.


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## WalkOn (Feb 12, 2015)

Tim, is this the one your talking about?  

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001NDN29O/ref=pe_385040_30332200_pe_309540_26725410_item

I use it as well, and really like it.  Often forget I've got it on. They have a good selection of filters, so you can use the right one for the job.

Kev


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## raar25 (Feb 12, 2015)

I just started using these from amazon and they are great.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AEXIS4S/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## jcm71 (Feb 12, 2015)

Here's a video that shows one way to adapt a smart charger to replace the one that comes with the Trend Airshield.


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## Magicbob (Feb 12, 2015)

The Resp-o-rator comes with a nose clip, but after a little use you learn to only breath thru your mouth.
I had to modify it as I have a big neck (23") and it was too tight on it, so I just cut the rear cross piece in two.
I love it, but I am searching for a mouth/face piece I can connect an old C-PAP machine to and go +pressure.


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## oneleggimp (Feb 12, 2015)

Now that intrigues me.  I use a Bi-pap and have an old one that I could maybe use.  Pressure would be neat.


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## Ed McDonnell (Feb 12, 2015)

BURLMAN said:


> How does the Trend Airshield stack up against the 3M Powerflow?  Anyone have any first hand experience?



I'm not sure I've got the experience you are looking for, but here's what I got.

I bought a Trend Airshield about 10 years ago.  When I wore it out a couple of years ago I bought a Trend Airshield Pro. The Trends are hobbyist equipment.  Relatively expensive hobbyist equipment, but still hobbyist grade.

The 3M products are designed for industry and bought by industry.  They are a little pricier on the initial buy than the Trends, but you are getting what you pay for in terms of impact ratings and build quality in my opinion (might be overkill for a hobbyist woodworker, but would be nice to have).  The Powerflow is much more versatile than the trend in terms of the types of cartridges that can be attached.  The Trend is just for dust.

The Trend Airshield Pro is a bit top heavy and takes a little time to get used to.  The 3M Powerflow felt like a vampire squid had latched onto my face and I didn't like it.  To be fair, I didn't like the Trend Airshield Pro the first time I tried it.  I only ever tried the 3M once.  So either one is probably a case of "you just have to get used to it".  I also thought the filter hanging down below on the 3M was cumbersome for working at the lathe.  You really should find a way to try them on before spending hundreds of dollars on one and then figuring out you would have preferred the other.

Consumables for the Trend are a bit more expensive than consumables for the 3M.  EXCEPT for the battery pack.  Unless I was looking at something wrong, a replacement battery pack for the 3M is what I would call insanely expensive (couple hundred dollars that I saw).

For what it's worth.  I've owned and worn Trends for 10 years.  I tried on a 3M Powerflow one time.  Not really a basis for a fair comparison on my part.  I like my Trend, but if you took it away and made me use the 3M I probably wouldn't complain too much and in a week or two I probably wouldn't remember a difference.  Unless I had to buy an extra / replacement battery pack.

Ed


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## Old Codger (Feb 12, 2015)

The Trend Airshield appears to be a great filtration system but I keep reading about methods to modify the battery power units...  What's up with that? For a $400 system, why should the customer need to modify the unit?  You would think if the unit's battery system needs to modified, the mfg would fix the issue...  This doesn't seem like  'recent' problem, but one that has existed for several years...  Any comments out there?  I want to purchase something similar but not something I have to modify to make it work the way it should from the mfg.


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## Ed McDonnell (Feb 12, 2015)

Old Codger said:


> The Trend Airshield appears to be a great filtration system but I keep reading about methods to modify the battery power units...  What's up with that? For a $400 system, why should the customer need to modify the unit?  You would think if the unit's battery system needs to modified, the mfg would fix the issue...  This doesn't seem like  'recent' problem, but one that has existed for several years...  Any comments out there?  I want to purchase something similar but not something I have to modify to make it work the way it should from the mfg.



I'll offer my opinion.  $400 may seem like a lot of money for a powered respirator, but it's bargain basement pricing for this type of equipment.  Trade offs have to be made to get the pricing down to this level.  A hobbyist woodturner is not going to have the same requirements as someone who works in a toxic and / or potentially explosive environment so some trade offs to save costs will be of little concern.  Other trade offs may be more of an issue depending on the user.  Specifically battery packs and chargers.

The original Airshield (still sold, but superseded by the Airshield Pro) used a proprietary low capacity battery pack and a not-so-smart charger.  They could have designed a higher capacity battery pack and smart charger into the system, but that would have meant a higher price point.  The average user who turns a couple hours a month would not have seen much benefit from a higher capacity battery or a smart charger. 

Those who used their Airshield substantially more than average quickly realized  that regularly buying additional low capacity battery packs at $50 a pop was not optimal.  A little investigation revealed that the Airshield battery pack was really nothing more than a couple AA rechargeable batteries in a fancy wrapper.  For far less than the cost of a replacement batter pack, you could replace it with a generic battery holder and a couple high capacity rechargeable AA batteries with spares at the ready in a relatively inexpensive smart charger.  Should Trend have offered this as an option to users?  Clearly they didn't think so because when they introduced the Airshield Pro they redesigned the battery system eliminate the solution that had been developed by heavy users for the original Airshield.  

The Pro battery pack is twice the capacity of the original (8 hours vs 4 hours) and can not be easily replaced with a generic battery holder.  The charger that is supplied with the Pro may be a smart charger.  If it is a smart charger, it is (in my opinion) not the smartest charger in the class.  With Pro battery packs costing $90, I would prefer to be sure that I'm not cooking them when I charge them (which greatly shortens their useful life).  A good quality smart charger can be had for $20 and easily used to replace the charger that comes with the Pro.  It may not be a necessary expense, but if there is any chance it saves a battery replacement it is money well spent for me.

The Pro battery pack that sells for $90 almost certainly costs far less than $90 to make.  I'm sure there is substantial profit in those battery packs.  Is Trend evil for charging $90 for $10 worth of parts?  Probably no more evil than someone who sells a pen for hundreds of dollars that was made from components that cost substantially less.  

I think the Airshield Pro is a good product that could be better.  Trend is satisfied with the product as is and believes it meets their customers needs.  Customers have to decide if the product "as is" represents fair value.  I happen to think so.  I am also able and willing to do what I think makes the product better for my use after I own it (replaced the stock charger with a smart charger).  While that makes the Airshield Pro better for me, it wouldn't necessarily make it better for everyone else.  For most light users the system sold "as is" is perfectly adequate.

Ed


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## Fish30114 (Feb 13, 2015)

A bit of info on batteries, I spent several years as a Sales Engineer for Sanyo Energy USA, the stateside reps for Sanyo batteries. Sanyo and Panasonic are the two largest battery manufacturers in the world, by far.

I can assure you that those replacement packs are Severely Abusively priced.
OEM replacement battery packs are always that way IME. I can also tell you for certain, if those packs in fact use rechargeable AA cells (the largest by quantity of any size battery made) that the battery cost is approximately .70 USD each, and although I am unfamiliar with the Trend or 3M products battery pack, if it is a typical injection molded plastic case, then you can add about $2 apiece for plastics and contacts, and then about $8-$10 each for assembly/packaging.

Good luck in your search, I personally use a respirator with replaceable cartridges, but I too have been thinking about the trend or other powered systems.


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## wizical (Feb 13, 2015)

I also used the Trend for about 3 years....I was not a fan of it since I felt is never really kept the dust out of my lungs.  I also felt unsafe at times of the face shield since it felt thin and would protect from flying debris.  I went to this product from 3M and it has been extremely happy about it

3M Full Facepiece Reusable Respirator 6900 (Multiple Sizes): Scba Safety Respirators: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific


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## nativewooder (Feb 13, 2015)

3M 6250 half mask with 3M P100 filters.  But I used throwaways for too long before getting some real filtering!  One of the reasons I had to retire from woodturning.


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## tool-man (Feb 15, 2015)

I believe there is some pertinent info in this thread on Sawmill Creek.
Trend AS Pro Filter Question [Archive] - Sawmill Creek Woodworking Community

Several questions are raised there about whether various respirators meet NIOSH requirements.  Apparently some units made in the UK have not been tested against US (NIOSH) standards.

Another good albeit technical resource is The National Personal Protective Technology Laboratory (NPPTL) CDC - NIOSH - NPPTL Respirator Information for Users.  They provide lists of tested/approved respirators.  For example their P-100 standard requires filtration of at least 99.97% of airborne particles and strongly resistant to oil.  See CDC - NPPTL - NIOSH-Approved Particulate Filtering Facepiece Respirators.  In my opinion the P-100 standard is quite robust and one which you should seek if particulate (ie wood dust)  filtration is high on your list of concerns.

I am not recommending any particular respirator, just wanting to make you aware of some of the information available on the web.  Best of luck in your research.


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## sbwertz (Feb 15, 2015)

I also use the Resp O Rator and really like it.  I don't have to use the nose clip because I just close my nose "internally" and breathe only through my mouth.  It allows me to use a full face shield or goggles, depending on what I am doing.  The only thing is, it doesn't protect you from CA fumes like some of the others do, but I just work in front of a fan when doing CA, since I am not allergic to it, and it doesn't bother me if I'm not breathing the concentrated fumes.


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## sbwertz (Feb 15, 2015)

Fish30114 said:


> A bit of info on batteries, I spent several years as a Sales Engineer for Sanyo Energy USA, the stateside reps for Sanyo batteries. Sanyo and Panasonic are the two largest battery manufacturers in the world, by far.
> 
> I can assure you that those replacement packs are Severely Abusively priced.
> OEM replacement battery packs are always that way IME. I can also tell you for certain, if those packs in fact use rechargeable AA cells (the largest by quantity of any size battery made) that the battery cost is approximately .70 USD each, and although I am unfamiliar with the Trend or 3M products battery pack, if it is a typical injection molded plastic case, then you can add about $2 apiece for plastics and contacts, and then about $8-$10 each for assembly/packaging.
> ...



We have a company here in town that will rebuild the battery packs with fresh batteries at a fraction of the cost of replacing it.  My dad used to rebuild all of mine, but since he died I've taken them to a shop and had them rebuilt.


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## CaptainJane (Feb 15, 2015)

*Air filtration - from model ships to pen turning*

Hi.  My 2 cents.   I started out building wood model ships.  Many people use CA glue, and I was one of them.  After an early hull planking session, when I went to bed that night, I thought I had a sudden severe case of pneumonia - my lungs were very gurgle-ey.  Although I did not die, I found I have developed a severe allergy to CA glue.  Well crap!

Fast forward to now, and my new penturning hobby.  I love the CA finish, and wanted to use it, SO I researched and bought a 3M RUGGED COMFORT QUICK LATCH 1/2 FACE RESPIRATOR  - about $20 plus cartridges.  A size Small is model number 6501QL, Medium 6502QL, and Large 6203QL.  

I bought a pack of dual purpose cartridges - 3M model 60926 - about $15.  It is a P100 particulate/air filter on top of a Multi Gas Vapor cartridge - listed as Nuisance level organic vapors, and nuisance level acid gases.  I can not smell any CA fumes, and cocobolo dust does not bother me the least - but I must wear a long sleeve shirt - don't ask how I know (big rash all over my arms).

I really like the Quick Latch feature, and it is the reason I chose this model.  You just flip the latch under your chin, and the mask falls down from your mouth a few inches, allowing you to talk, drink, blow your nose - - .  When you are ready to go back to work, just flip the Quick Latch back under your chin, and you are back in business.  

I also wear ear muff hearing protection and safety glasses - and it does not seem too hot, and is in fact very comfortable.  I end up wearing my protection pretty much the whole time I am in my little indoor shop.  I also have a cyclone dust collector ($50) that fits to my shop vac - which is very noisy - hence the ear muffs.  The cyclone/shop vac goes to my lathe, and keeps the place pretty dust free.

If you are thinking of going the respirator route, I highly recommend the 3M Quick Latch with the dual crtridge.  You are worth it!

J


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## Fish30114 (Feb 16, 2015)

sbwertz said:


> Fish30114 said:
> 
> 
> > A bit of info on batteries, I spent several years as a Sales Engineer for Sanyo Energy USA, the stateside reps for Sanyo batteries. Sanyo and Panasonic are the two largest battery manufacturers in the world, by far.
> ...




SB, if anyone had asked, that's exactly what I would have recommended--there are quite a few local businesses that will re-build your battery packs, often with better cells than the originals, for pretty reasonable costs--Kudo's to your Pop's for getting yours refurbished!


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## Strawboss (Feb 19, 2015)

Wow! Lots of information from original post. I had not checked in for a couple of days and now I have a tremendous amount of views and products to consider. Hope new posts continue on the subject. Thanks to all for contributing.

Strawboss (Bill)


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