# CA/BLO, Any idea waht i'm doing wrong? Pics inside



## philb (Feb 24, 2008)

Hi,

Ive been trying to master the CA/BLO for a few months now.Have tried both the Russ method and the method of the video shown on YouTube recently!

Now i have had relative success, but its taking me up to 5 times of resanding and reapplication before i get a consistent result and the gloss and smooth in the finish is not really up to par!

Many of my attempts end with a lot of white specs or a slight hazing of white in the finish. they are not cloudy, more chipped looking, but smooth too the touch! Any ideas?

Ive been applying 4 coats of medium CA per blank, 3-4 drops per coats.  
The CA is new and so is the BLO, and using paper towels! MM to 12000 before an after CA.

This is the latest attempt, now unless i completely sand this back down to the wood and start again, the problem seems to stay to persist, like the CA doesn't attract to the previous coats!

Really im just speculating, as i don't have a clue! Im thinking maybe not smooth enough coast of CA? Or i need to apply more in order to get them smooth before MM of the finish? Have a look at the pics, any ideas are welcome!









The wood is English Yew by the way! But problem is with anything i've tried yet! 


Cheers PHIL


----------



## mdburn_em (Feb 24, 2008)

Phil,
I'm far from an expert but I will offer opinions on what I can.

The white specs sound like sanding dust that has been trapped under a coat of CA.  The find particles gets trapped in tiny voids and show up extremely well after the CA is applied.  

Many blow the blank off using an air compressor.  Some wipe it with DNA, although that carries with it the possibility of not evaporating and causing moisture blooms or clouds under the CA.

The blank in the first picture looks like scratches that weren't removed using the side to side method.  They may or may not have held dust when the CA coat was applied.

I can't even begin to guess on the second picture, unless that was a whole lot of sanding dust.  I really doubt that though.

Best of luck.  We'll see what the real CA experts say.


----------



## ahoiberg (Feb 24, 2008)

i'd agree with mark about it being dust being trapped. have you considered trying ca by itself? it will kinda fill itself in sometimes and eliminate some of those things. but nothing beats careful, careful sanding, which i'm sure you're already doing... i personally never liked using BLO with CA, so i switched to CA on its own, i feel it provides a better finish. it might not go on as quick, but i like spending a little time finishing the pens... build up a nice thick coat of CA so you can sand it smooth and then use your usual polishing routine.


----------



## leehljp (Feb 24, 2008)

I noticed that for me, I get the whites like you have in the picture - when the lathe speed is too fast. CA sanding dust builds up on the sandpaper or MM, gets hot and melts back into the other surfaced CA. When I slow down, or used two or three second swipes, or keep the SP/MM clean, I keep that from happening. 

I find that I can remove it by taking a minute or two and sanding long ways by hand to "rub" sand it off. I can also remove that by using the lathe on the slower/slowest speed and fresh sandpaper.


----------



## JohnU (Feb 25, 2008)

Im no pro at ca finishes and sometimes I have this problem when I press to hard and edges of the paper towel stick to the glue.  Ive had to sand it off and start again.  I also use a lower mico mesh sheet to take off any ridges or lines in the glue in between coats and wipe the blanks with a clean rag before each coat.  Like the posts above I turn the lathe down a bit.


----------



## philb (Feb 25, 2008)

Cheers guys!

After having a look at the blanks again I think that i have had a rough finish to the CA in those area before i have started polishing. This combined with not wanting to sand through the finish has meant that the final surface is not 100% smooth or void free! So the surface defects have filled up with CA dust thats just been trapped the finer in the MM i get!

So im thinking, add a thicker coat of CA or more coats, giving me the chance while im not 100% sure of how to get a smooth coat, to sand down to a even and void free CA before final polishing?


----------



## constamj (Feb 26, 2008)

What speed are you applying the CA?  What speed are you sanding?  I found that I was using a speed that was way to fast.  The results were that the CA would start to gum up and looked very much like your bottom picture.  Try using a slow speed like 500 RPM to apply the CA keeping a wet edge as you work across the blank.  Once it is applied slowly move from side to side until you get that great smell.  That is when I let it sit for a few seconds and switch to sanding with a light touch moving the paper because it will start to gum up on the paper.  Then repeat.  It worked for me.  Might be worth a try.


----------



## DCBluesman (Feb 26, 2008)

If you have access to compressed air, blow off the blanks bettwen grits.


----------



## philb (Feb 26, 2008)

Have been applying the CA at about 1200rpm?


----------



## constamj (Feb 26, 2008)

Try using a slower speed.  500 Revolutions Per Meter.


----------



## aurrida (Feb 27, 2008)

it helped me when i began working on one blank at a time.

i can only get a consistent finish by applying oil first on top of a thin ca sealer.

i dont feel its necessary to mm to 12000. using nylon sanding pads with grain only, probably about 1000. 

and to finish i polish with car scratch remover only, buffing would be easier.


----------



## philb (Feb 28, 2008)

Thsi is unreal!

Tried slower speed, more CA coats, more sanding to flatten surface! NOTHING, Just white in different areas! Driving me insane now!

I must be doing something wrong, I reckon im just not getting a flat enough surface before final MMing, but just cant work it out!

So frustrating! Sand all the blank, CA/BLO and then MM looks good, put Ren on and bang looks like garbage!


----------



## rherrell (Feb 28, 2008)

Have you tried removing BLO from the equation? Try this, spray the blank with accelerator and let it dry for about 15 seconds or until dry. Apply CA to the blank, not the paper towel, with the lathe at approx. 500 rpm. Wipe GENTLY back and forth with towel until fairly smooth. The trace of accelerator on the blank should cure the CA fairly quickly, usually within 30 seconds. Repeat 2-4 times without sanding in between coats. When done sand with 400 and 600 wet dry paper(used dry) and then buff. Putting the accelerator on BEFORE the CA has helped me ALOT.


----------



## philb (Feb 28, 2008)

Ill give it a go! Cant be any worse!


----------



## jtate (Feb 28, 2008)

Are you doing this over and over again to the same blanks?  I'd begin to wonder if there could be an issue there.  Some woods (cocobolo, for me) just seem to be hard to get to take a good CA finish.  I'd try all over again with some different kind of wood.

I have pretty well eliminated the BLO from my CSA finishes and they're coming out pretty well.  But then again, I never had this kind of problem!  (No offense meant.  I had PLENTY of other problems.)

I'd also suggest a new container of CA.  A bottle you KNOW is fresh.    This stuff does age, you know, and not in the fine-wine-good kind of way.

Finally, I'd suggest using THIN CA and letting it get really, really thoroughly dry after application and before you sand in between coats.  You shouldn't have to do it but, what the heck, it couldn't hurt.  Go in the house and get a soda between coats.  I have thought, all throughout this thread, that your CA wasn't getting set up well before you start sanding on it.  If it's not set up thoroughly the sanding will pull the partially congealed CA up, combine that tacky CA with the dust from the areas that are set and leave these white areas.  I think this especially given that the white areas are at the ends of each part.  The ends are the areas where you'll get build up as you go back and forth since you're pushing a little hump of CA along in front of your finger.  You might also try going in one directions only as you're wiping on your CA.  Start at the nib end, for instance, wipe toward the center band end, lift your finger, go back and restart wiping at the nib end  again.  Wipe all the way onto the bushings and stop there.

Hope this helps.


----------



## jtate (Feb 28, 2008)

Also, try applying with a plastic baggie over your fingers instead of a paper towel.  Who knows?  Maybe you're getting little fragments of papertowel stuck in the finish.


----------



## jtate (Feb 28, 2008)

Oh, and finally, when you remove this finish, you don't have to sand it all the way down.  Soat a rag in acetone and wipe them throughly with that, switching to clean, acetone-soaked areas of the rag frequently.  Then let it dry completely.  You'll probably have removed enough CA that you don't have to sand.


----------



## Dario (Feb 28, 2008)

I don't use BLO because when I tried it....it looked like your pics.  I am guessing that BLO is trapped between coats of CA and that is what causes the white areas.

I use the paper towel over plastic bag applicator and works well for me.  I apply a thick coat of thick CA and after it dries, I get a fresh 2" x 2" piece of paper towel, spray it with accelerator and wipe the spinning blank.  It usually smooths the surface enough that I can start sanding with 400 grit.

If the surface becomes very rough, I just shave the CA with my scraper before doing the accelerator wipe and sanding.

Hope this helps.


----------



## jtate (Feb 28, 2008)

Here's Don Ward's article

http://content.penturners.org/articles/2006/donwardca.pdf


It might help.


----------



## follow3 (Mar 2, 2008)

I was getting the exact same results and found a few things I was doing wrong:

1. I was trying to go back and forth with the paper towel until the glue set. I now just wipe across the blank 2 or 3 times until the glue is thin and smooth, then let it dry on its own.

2. I only use BLO before the first coat and I buff that with a dry paper towel to dry it as much as possible.

3. Use a new section of paper towel every time. I fold the towe up until it make 2 pieces 1 1/2" wide X 3" long and I use 2 spots on each side, so I can put on 8 coats with 1 paper towel.

4. I sand with 800 or 1000 grit sand paper between coats and blow off with compressed air.

That's it, once I started just wiping across the blank 2 or 3 times LIGHTLY and letting it dry on it's own, I noted a world of difference. Now my finish turns out like glass after 8 light coats and wet sanding with MM after the last coat.

Good luck, DON'T GIVE UP!!!


----------



## OldWrangler (Mar 2, 2008)

*  Everyone seems to have their own method so here's mine.

I use the CA/BLO because I am lazy and it is the easiest, fastest and best looking finish I can get. After sanding to 400 grit with very light pressure I apply a coat of thin CA over each half of the blank with a paper towel. Before that sets up I apply a couple of drops of BLO to the same spot on the towel and rub it on the blanks. Then I repeat with CA and BLO several more times using the same spot on the towel. About 3-4 coats and I sand lightly with 8,000 MM wet with BLO. About 2 min. with that and I wipe clean with a clean spot on the paper towel. When dry, I apply 2 coats of Hut Crystal wax and turn that warm with the paper towel. Looks like glass with no scratches, white spots and no darkening of the lighter wood by sanding with the MM that sometimes leaves a grey residue. Seems to work great every time.*


----------



## Hello (Mar 3, 2008)

I'm no expert on applying CA to a pen....but I do know quote a lot about the compound and what it can do under certain circumstances.

I think it may be blooming that you're experiencing. Usually, blooming shows up as a "haze" or "fog" look, but that isn't the rule. It can show in splotches  or specs too. A humid enviornment is all CA needs to bloom....it rains a lot in the UK, right? I'm not saying this is definitely the issue(the rain I mean) because there are plenty of other turners in the UK who aren't experiencing this problem. If you haven't already done so, try to make sure your work enviornment is cool (cold is actually the best - CA should be stored in your refridgerator (35 - 45deg F) and dry. Avoid touching the blank to test whether or not its dry - I'm a culprit of this, even with knowing that I shouldn't. Its possible, though unlikely, that you've got some tainted BLO.


----------



## jtate (Mar 8, 2008)

Hello,

CA should be stored in the 'frig?  First I've heard of this but I'd be glad to do it.  Can you say more about this?  What is it about the cool that helps the CA?

Julia


----------



## DCBluesman (Mar 8, 2008)

Cool air carries less moisture.  CA cures in the presence of hydroxyl ions (water).  Less water = less curing.


----------



## orangecobalt (Mar 13, 2008)

I was having the same problem that you were having, but then I tried my own method.   First of I sand from 320 grit to 12000 micro mesh on the wooden blanks which leaves me with a nice shine as is. Then I apply 1 coat of blo and rub dry. Then I proceed and apply 3 layers of thin ca, but I don't rub it untill it cures, instead I rub it on the blank and go back and forth a few times and let it spin dry for a few seconds. After 3 coats right on top of each other I wet sand with micro mesh through to 12000 using blo as a lubricant. Clen blank off with clean paper towel and  buff on the lathe with HUT ultra gloss plastic polish. I have done 4 pens like this now and the finish on all of them are flawless. Like glass. Hope this helps.


----------



## BrentK (Mar 13, 2008)

I wipe my blanks down with a bounty fabric softner. I havent noticed any problems with dust. I am very new to this but that is what works for me.


----------



## Vince_Hoffmann (Apr 5, 2008)

Applying the CA while the lathe is turning too fast makes the CA cure quickly, causing the cracks and white occulsions.  Slow the lathe down and don't rub so hard.
My method:
I don't use boiled linseed oil... at all.
I put a few drops of CA on my plastic covered finger and turn the lathe by hand and rub the glue across the surface until I achieve an even coat, then let it dry for a few minutes... and do it again.  I generally put on 4 coats before wet sanding with micromesh.
I've used this simple method many times and I've never had a failure.


----------

