# DocStram vs ChopSaw  -  ChopSaw Wins



## DocStram (Oct 5, 2006)

Well, we learn from others' expertise, right?  And, my stupidity.

Here's the short version of my sordid tale. 9:00 last night ... working on a bottlestoper .... decide to make a "just a quick cut" off a chunk of beautiful Cocobolo ... too much of a hurry to clamp down the chunk ... decided to hold it with my left hand against the fence. 
Dang, that chunk of wood took off like a rocket. Hit me square in the upper forehead and then ricocheted across the shop. Blood everywhere ... off comes my tee shirt to compress the bleeding and off to the ER. My wife heard it all the way upstairs at the other end of the house.

Finally got home at 1AM with 9 new stitches. (Sorry I didn't have a cell phone camera with me to take live action shots from the hospital.) 

The good news is that I still have ten fingers, both eyes and an intact frontal lobe (which had already "lost" its share of gray matter during my college days in the 60s)


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## Skye (Oct 5, 2006)

9 stitches across that head shouldnâ€™t even be noticeable, []

Well glad to hear youâ€™re ok! I had the same thing happen to me, once. I was chopping a small chunk of plastic. Shot out off the blade at about mach 43 and gouged my knuckle. A little CA on it and a fresh pair of drawers and I was alright.


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## chigdon (Oct 5, 2006)

Wow Al, glad to hear you are still mostly intact!  Considering most of my work is done between the hours of 10pm and 1am that is good for me to keep in mind.


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## ctEaglesc (Oct 5, 2006)

Just a SWAG, but did you forget to release the trigger before lifting the blade?
That's the only wasy the electric blade brake will work.


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## Rifleman1776 (Oct 5, 2006)

Wow! The title was scary. Especially the CHOP part. Interesting that the block of wood would fly up into the face as the blade is spinning to the back. I took a hunk of wood to the solar plexus once from my table saw, but those blades are spinning towards the user dumb enought to stand in a straight line with the blade. Don't do that no more, no more, nope.


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## DocStram (Oct 5, 2006)

eagle ..... I knew I could count on you to conduct an investigation of what I did wrong!  You're like the CSI of IAP shop accidents!  (Do not take this as an insult.) I think it's important to scrutinize accidents to try to figure out what exactly went wrong.

I never got to lift the blade. The chunk of wood took off as soon as the blade started to engage the wood. After the wood took flight, with a trajectory straight into my forehead, THEN I lifted the handle (although things became a blur at that point)  I just went down to the shop to find the block of wood.  It has a saw cut only a small way into the piece.  There are lots of marks and blade marks on it.


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## Jim15 (Oct 5, 2006)

I'm glad you didn't seriously injured.


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## GBusardo (Oct 5, 2006)

Whew!!!  (Flashback) Same thing happened to me. Wood exploded as the blade hit the wood.  My son was standing about 15 foot away and scared the dickens out of him (and me) Wood flying all over. ( a 2x4 fir)  Luckily the only things that got bruised was my thumb a little and ego.  Very Glad you didn't get seriously hurt!!


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## tnilmerl (Oct 5, 2006)

count your blessings...   and your fingers....


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## ctEaglesc (Oct 5, 2006)

I'm glad you have all your digits and hopefully the scar will heal without too much of a visual rememberance.


Doc I didn't mean for my post to sound as a derision.
Your experience is why I don't use a compound miter saw for precision cuts on small pieces of wood.(like pen blanks or PIECES of pen blanks)
Much too aggresive a cut.
If you think of it a  chop saw  is similar to a radial arm saw in that the blade moves through the wood forcing it into the fence.Next to routers I believe I read that radial arm saws were at one time considered the most dangerous tool in the shop.
If the wood isn't secure something WILL move, law of physices.
For those who use a compound miter saw because they are comfortable with it that's fine to each his own.

O.K., now.
Were you wearing saftey glasses?
What if it had hit lower?


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## twoofakind (Oct 5, 2006)

Hey a new scar for the next Bubbasville SE! [] Same thing happened to me with African Blackwood, except it caught the tip of my thumb and layed it open. Glad you're alright. Shop accidents almost never end well.
Andy


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## Dario (Oct 5, 2006)

Glad your humor is still intact as well as all your fingers []

Hope we all learn from it and nothing like this even happen again.


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## TBone (Oct 5, 2006)

> _Originally posted by DocStram_
> <br /> decide to make a "<b>just a quick cut</b>" off a chunk of beautiful Cocobolo ... <b>too much of a hurry to clamp down </b>the chunk ... decided to hold it



I wonder just how many accidents start with the above?  We all do it and it's dangerous. 

Glad to hear you're ok and no really serious damage, although getting hit in the head with a fast moving block of wood is serious to me.  But at least everything is attached and working.  Thanks for posting and reminding us just how dangerous spinning blades, bits, etc are.


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## DocStram (Oct 5, 2006)

Ok eag .... here's what I just found when I went down to the shop.  The fence on the right side of the blade was out of alignement ... it was pushed back.  I'm 100% certain it was in position before starting the cut.  I'm not certain if the right side of the fence moved back as a result of the force of the wood being thrown or if it started to slide back and then causing the throw. Get what I mean? 

I know you're not a fan of headgear like the Trend Airshield, but that's what I "almost" always wear when I'm creating sawdust. (respiratory related problems) I did NOT have on the Trend nor even safety glasses. If the Trend was on it would have hit the wide brim piece at the top.  It would have been real interesting to see if the faceshield would have held up to the velocity of the wood.

It was a combination of doing a bunch of wrong things.  We've all seen  pieces of blanks hurtling thru the air, usually off to the side or back. I was totally surprised by this block of wood coming right at my face.


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## gerryr (Oct 5, 2006)

I almost didn't read this because of the title.  Glad to hear you still have all digits in place and that it wasn't a lot worse.

As far as what Eagle said about routers, I bought a 3/4hp router many years ago.  The first time I used it, it scared the crap out of me and I never used it again, finally got rid of it a couple years ago.


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## ctEaglesc (Oct 5, 2006)

Based on the rotation of the blade the block HAD to ricochet off the fence to hit you standing behind the saw.
Too bad you weren't wearing the Trend w/face shield.At least you may have had a justifiable lawsuit in the event you were injured


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## elody21 (Oct 5, 2006)

Thank God, It did not get you in the eye! I have made that same dumb mistake, but only once. I did not get hurt, but the wood (dissigrated)spelling?! Take care and get better!


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## RogerGarrett (Oct 5, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Rifleman1776_
> <br />Wow! The title was scary. Especially the CHOP part. Interesting that the block of wood would fly up into the face as the blade is spinning to the back. I took a hunk of wood to the solar plexus once from my table saw, but those blades are spinning towards the user dumb enought to stand in a straight line with the blade. Don't do that no more, no more, nope.



You might be surprised at how they ricochet....

Two years ago, I was cutting a tenon on my table saw - a simple cut, but it was a small piece.  I was doing everything correctly.....and still, the blade caught the piece just right and grabbed it from my grasp - slamming it into the table, then off of the fence and right back into my face.  I had my safety glasses on - but the wood threw them up on top of my head - all cockeyed.  This piece of wood, no more than a 1 inch thick, 6 X 3 inch piece, nearly knocked me off my feet with the force.  When I reached up to where it had hit my cheek - just below my right eye, I pulled my had away - covered with blood.  

When I put the glasses down on my nose, I swear to God I thought I had lost some sight - my vision was distorted and blurry.  I thought to myself, I can barely see....!!  Then I realized that the lenses of the glasses had popped out.  I finally found them FORWARD of where I had been - on the other side of the table saw in a garbage can filled with sawdust.  The cut was a simple laceration - not deep at all - barely through the first layer of skin - but really bled for awhile.  Three weeks later you couldn't see any evidence it had ever happened - but it scared the living s*** out of me.

Glad you're ok Doc!

Best,
Roger Garrett


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## fritzmccorkle (Oct 5, 2006)

i was almost killed by a bowling ball blank.  it did laps in my shop mocking me as it tried to hit me.  i hate cutting round blanks!!!  when i cut the second one the same thing happened but i was wearing more protective gear than a paranoid bomb defusing guy (con't remember the name of that profession).  i think the only way to win against a chop saw (my personal choice for cutting blanks) is to sneak up on it.


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## DocStram (Oct 5, 2006)

Ummmmm fritz .... don't you think I deserve a couple of "sympathy blanks" from that select, private stock of yours?????  []


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## ctEaglesc (Oct 5, 2006)

> _Originally posted by fritzmccorkle_
> <br />i was almost killed by a bowling ball blank.  it did laps in my shop mocking me as it tried to hit me.  i hate cutting round blanks!!!  when i cut the second one the same thing happened but i was wearing more protective gear than a paranoid bomb defusing guy (con't remember the name of that profession).  i think the only way to win against a chop saw (my personal choice for cutting blanks) is to sneak up on it.



Make a "V" block to cut them in.They don't roll so much.
Or
Chuck between centers and use a thin parting tool


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## Ron Mc (Oct 5, 2006)

Al,
I'm glad to hear that everything is still in one piece!
As you well know all I use is a compound mitre saw for everything. I did have an insidant a few months ago where the blank blew off the fence and hit my three middle fingers. It hurt so darn bad that I went to the kitchen sink and soaked in cold water. Big mistake! The cold made the pain even worse and as my wife walked in the kitchen she got to watch me fall to the floor, holding my hand in agony.[]
Of course she figured that I had finaly joined the group of people that cut off some fingers.
Be very careful and once again I am very glad your OK!


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## alamocdc (Oct 5, 2006)

Bummer, Al! No more accidents, people! You're scaring me.[:0] 'Cause I don't wanna be next!

BTW, Al, I'm truly glad it wasn't worse![]


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## TellicoTurning (Oct 5, 2006)

Hi Al,
Had the same thing happen a while back... I might have come out ahead just getting hit in the head... Had piece of what I think was birch that I picked up on the Tellico River... I think it came out of a beaver dam somewhere up river and was still a little wet.  I wanted to chop off the end to see what the inside looked like,, like you, I just held the piece against the fence and pulled the chop down... shomething shifted and my motor housing shattered into about 20 pieces.. the blade jerked sideways and wobbled.. nothing hit me, but nearly had same problem as Skye.. needed a change.  Also needed a new saw.


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## TBone (Oct 5, 2006)

> _Originally posted by DocStram_
> <br /> The fence on the right side of the blade was out of alignment ... it was pushed back.  I'm 100% certain it was in position before starting the cut.  I'm not certain if the right side of the fence moved back as a result of the force of the wood being thrown or if it started to slide back and then causing the throw. Get what I mean?



I'd be willing to bet the fence was out of position due to the force of the wood.  Probably the ricochet or at least the first one.


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## Randy_ (Oct 5, 2006)

If anybody asks, tell'em you were playing football!!

Glad you are OK!!

You going to be in shape to play this weekend??[]


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## btboone (Oct 5, 2006)

Sorry to hear it Al.  Maybe it will help keep things safer in the future.


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## ctEaglesc (Oct 5, 2006)

What I don't understand is why is everybody getting hit with off cuts?
Even if you are not using a hold down, One hand(the left I am assuming holding the "good" piece, the off cut unsupported to the right anad the right hand should be on the handle or "trigger".
What am I missing?
Note on pieces like this I ususally use a clamp but as long as my left is holding the "good" piece to the left of the blade in the "safe zone" the blade should deflect any flying pieces.


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## Ron Mc (Oct 5, 2006)

The piece that hit my hand was the piece I was holding with my left hand. Something went wrong and it sent it into the fence and back into my fingers. I had it pressed firmly against the fence yet it still happened. It hasn't happened again since I set up a wood zero clearance fence.[]


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## jaywood1207 (Oct 5, 2006)

!!!Sigh!!!!  I feel for you Al and am glad you're okay.  I had a run in with my router on Monday night and lost my fingerprint to a 1/2" straight bit.  I'm still licking my wound and will be for a couple weeks.  That thing scares me even more now but I won't give up on it.


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## mick (Oct 5, 2006)

Hate to hear about this Doc...I'm just glad you weren't hurt worse. Worse shop related accident I ever had involved a compound miter saw. I was sawing 2x2's in foot long lengths. Simple cuts no hold downs. I'd cut one toss it in my cut pile and advance the piece to make the next cut. I had a major brain fart and instead of tossing the last one I cut, I just slide it forward on the bed of the saw. Guess what happened on my next cut? Blade grabs the freshly cut piece slamming it into my thumb which was holding the bigger piece against the fence. Broke it bout a 1/2 inch from the tip and busted it wide open. Took 7 stitches and several lortabs for me to feel halfway normal. I still use the miter saw almost daily and like Ron I use only the miter saw for cutting my segments and glue ups. But I do have a lot more respect for it ....and all my power tools and think twice before I do anything!


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## fiferb (Oct 5, 2006)

Ouch. Glad to hear you're going to be fine. Feel better and be careful!


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## Woodbutcher68 (Oct 5, 2006)

I tell my employees that the most dangerous thing in the plant is the people working there. The same holds true for a woodworking shop.


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## DocStram (Oct 5, 2006)

Now that my brain is clearing up I spent some time looking closer at my chopsaw.  Then I noticed a hole and impression in the drywall right behind the saw.  Now I think I figured it out. I was holding the block of wood in the safe zone with my left hand (should have used the clamp like I always do) ... the saw grabbed the wood and twisted it out of my grip .. then slammed it against the drywall AND THEN it ricocheted into my head.
If it had hit my head first with that much force ... you all would be getting some great deals on all of my pen kits and blanks from my wife's shopsale.


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## TBone (Oct 5, 2006)

Doc, sounds like you've about got it tracked.  Most likely hit the fence on it's way up.  Amazing how a block of wood can ricochet that far with that much force, especially off of drywall.

Glad you're ok.  We should all use this as a reminder.  The best clamps, safety glasses and other safety devices are the ones we use.


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## BigRob777 (Oct 6, 2006)

Al,
I hear ya.  I almost lost my hand this week, because I forgot to lower the blade guard thingie on my band saw.  I lost the use of my pinkie for a few days, but I don't mind that, considering the alternative.  I cut a chunk of olivewood for a friend and forgot to lower the guard.  

I'm glad you're OK.  I lost the side of a finger tip on my chop saw last year, after losing the tip 6 weeks earlier.  One more major mishap and I'm retiring from wood sales.  I sure hope that doesn't happen.  I'm trying to work safer.  I've also had some wild missiles in my shop from my mitre saw.  I'll use my japanese draw saw in the future, for close cutting, like stoppers.
Rob


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