# kit names



## DB in VT (May 23, 2017)

Can someone tell me the difference between the Sierra, Manhattan and Gatsby kits?  They seem pretty interchangeable and use the same bushings.
  Is it merely a difference in name?


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## NVSB4 (May 23, 2017)

Don't know about the Sierra, but the difference between the Manhattan and Gatsby is where they twist.


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## eharri446 (May 23, 2017)

The Sierra and the Gatsby are the same. However, the Manhattan uses different bushings and the tube length is different.

Also, The Wall Street II and the Sienna are the same as the Sierra and Gatsby.

The Princeton also uses the same tube and length as the Sierra/Gatsby/Sienna/Wall Street II.


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## magpens (May 23, 2017)

You have to be careful ! . The original Sierra twist design by BereaHardwoods quickly became very popular, and it has been imitated by many companies. 

These "copies" may look almost the same on the outside and mostly use a 27/64" diameter tube close to 2.2" long, but the inside details are often a little bit different (and not interchangeable) and how they operate can be different as Chris (above) pointed out. . Some operate by twisting the barrel (Sierra) and some operate by twisting the top end finial.

I made a blanket statement a couple of weeks ago which was wrong when comparing the Sierra and a look-alike and I was pleased to get corrected here. 

The people who know the Sierra "look-alikes" the best, and sell the biggest variety, are the ExoticBlanks couple, PR_Princess and ed4copies ( Dawn and Ed ). . I don't think they sell the Manhattan, or Sienna, but they do sell the Sierra, Ambassador, Diplomat, Gatsby, Zodiac, Ellipse, the Thank-you pen kit, a range of Le Roi kits, ... to name most of them, although I may have missed a couple.

It's worth noting that there is another common Sierra look-alike, called the Mesa which is sold by Woodturningz. . Don't confuse it with the Southwest Mesa originated by PSI.

To  make for more confusion, there are yet more variants manufactured/sold by Oriental companies and European companies. . Sometimes the manufacturer and the retail vendor even use different names for the same kit !

And then we have the Sierra Click, the Elegant Sierra, the Sierra Elegant Beauty, the Lucida, the Aero, the Arrow, ... and more ! . I almost forgot to mention the Wall St !

And so, DB in VT, is everything clearer now ?! :biggrin: . Yup, there are different names, but there may be other differences also.

Perhaps I should point out that the Princeton mentioned above could be regarded as a variant of the Sierra because it uses the same 27/64" tube but it has a noticeably different shape ... which is identical to the Virage !

And how about the Pensar, which uses not one, but two, 27/64" tubes, each about half of the Sierra tube's length and joined by a coupling ring in the middle ... is it, too, basically a Sierra ?

I don't think this dissertation is anywhere near being exhaustively complete !!

Oh, just thought of another one ... the Monarch.

And ... the Napoleon, which is called something else by the manufacturer, Dayacom. . It is sold in Canada, but I think not in the US, although Smitty's Pen Works used to sell an extremely close kit which, I believe, was called the Le Roi Elegant Major.  I don't believe that ExoticBlanks, who acquired Smitty's business, is continuing to sell this kit. . It uses the exact same tube as the Sierra twist but is more "high-end" having a crystal on the clip (like the Majestic Squire from PSI) and "advanced" platings (Rhodium, Titanium Gold, and Black Titanium).  It is, in fact, one of my favorite kits.

Someday, somebody should catalog all these Sierra look-alikes comparing their similarities and differences.

Wanna get your Ph.D. in pen kit identification ? :biggrin::biggrin:


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## Edgar (May 24, 2017)

Good summary Mal - I might also add that the CSUSA Manhatten (available as a BP or FP/RB) is a completely different pen from the Rockler Manhatten which is a Sierra style variant.


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## greenacres2 (May 24, 2017)

This is timely for me!!  As a novice who ordered 4 starter packs from Peachtree about a month ago, I got hooked and have turned 6 of the 8 initial kits.  So...I've got to do a little stocking up and have done some online looking the past few nights.  This morning I came to the conclusion that for now it might be wise for me to focus mostly on a single manufacturer so that i'd have a better shot at consistency in hardware while I work on the skills.  

Reading Mal's post reinforces that decision for me, which means I can now get down to ordering.  Still need to consider appropriate bushings and bits, but by not chasing look-alikes i'll be able be consistent in the accessories as well.  
Thanks!!
earl


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## DB in VT (May 25, 2017)

I can see the Sierra kits from Berea Hardwoods.  They look exactly like the Manhattan from Rockler.  I have not found the Sierra at any other site that I've been to, although I know it is talked about a lot.
  I purchased a laser cut kit from Rockler a few months ago.  It stated that it was for a Sierra pen.  I thought I would use it with a Gatsby.  Lo and behold the inner diameter is different.  Now I'm looking for the equivalent kit so that I can utilize the laser blank.
  Rockler's Manhattan and PSI Gatsby use the same bushings.  Yes, the twist is different but the bushings are the same.


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## ed4copies (May 25, 2017)

DB in VT said:


> I can see the Sierra kits from Berea Hardwoods.  They look exactly like the Manhattan from Rockler.  I have not found the Sierra at any other site that I've been to, although I know it is talked about a lot.
> I purchased a laser cut kit from Rockler a few months ago.  It stated that it was for a Sierra pen.  I thought I would use it with a Gatsby.  Lo and behold the inner diameter is different.  Now I'm looking for the equivalent kit so that I can utilize the laser blank.
> Rockler's Manhattan and PSI Gatsby use the same bushings.  Yes, the twist is different but the bushings are the same.




As was mentioned above, by Mal, you would find the Berea Sierra on ExoticBlanks.com.  It would be available from any authorized Berea reseller--Beartoothwoods, Arizona Silhouette, WoodCraft calls it the Wall Street II.

I doubt the Rockler Manhattan is exactly the same.  I don't believe any of Rockler's pens are made by Berea any more.


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## moe1970 (Mar 27, 2021)

eharri446 said:


> The Sierra and the Gatsby are the same. However, the Manhattan uses different bushings and the tube length is different.
> 
> Also, The Wall Street II and the Sienna are the same as the Sierra and Gatsby.
> 
> The Princeton also uses the same tube and length as the Sierra/Gatsby/Sienna/Wall Street II.


Does the Princeton also use the same bushings as the Mesa/Sierra?


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## jttheclockman (Mar 27, 2021)

Princeton uses--- .474 bushings. Mesa bushings--.470

From what I read here the Mesa is not the same as the Sierra.
https://www.penturners.org/threads/sierra-mesa-wall-street-etc.90256/

Being the Princeton is a Woodcraft kit, the same bushings used for the WallstreetII (woodcraft) is the same, which is their equivalent to the Sierra. So you have to be careful using the Sierra name loosely. So many clones on the market and many are equal but there can be differences. 

I have said this many times here I highly highly suggest if you use bushings to turn pens ( don not want to get into turning between centers ) that you always order bushings from the same place you order kits everytime you place a new order. They are such a small price compared to kits and they will be there for when you need them. Just label them some way. Or you can TBC.


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## Cmtpapa (Mar 29, 2021)

You do know that a human hair is .002 in diameter so the difference you’re pointing out is the same as 2 hairs. Pretty inconsequential. Maybe not in the space shuttle but definitely in pen turning. 
as far as calling them all Sierras. It’s closer to the truth to call them “Sierra Family”.


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