# More on the sierra bushing topic



## jimr (Jan 26, 2006)

After I discovered that I was not the only one with problems with the Sierra kit bushings I tried a few more measurements. I am pretty convinced that the problem concerns the wall thickness of the bushings. I mic'd as accurately as I could and found that the wall thickness varies from .0065 to .0071 from one side of the bushing to the other and I think that I can tell by just looking that they are not the same. That is how I determined where to measure. Now, I am not a machinist and these measurements are certainly not to extreme tolerances but if there is that much difference there is not much that can be retro-fitted to make them rotate smoothly. I also do not know how bushings are manufactured, machined on a mandrel or drilled from solid stock but however it is done, the process is faulty. 
I hope someone will either confirm or dispute my findings.


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## clewless (Jan 26, 2006)

You sent me scurrying out to my shop where it is too cold to work today. 

My bushing are new, having only turned one pen so far...diameters .0246 and .0247 with wall .064 to .071.  My HF vernier accuracy +/- .001  so it looks like we're dealing with .005+/- variation.

I didn't notice any fit problem although I can see that one wall of the pen is thinner than the other.  

Maybe mandrel whip and wall variations can add up or negate each other?

Joe in cold, windy MD


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## jimr (Jan 26, 2006)

My variations didn't cancel each other, it just produced a very noticeable wobble making a round pen impossible, for me at least.


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## Randy_ (Jan 26, 2006)

> _Originally posted by jimr_<br />.....I mic'd as accurately as I could and found that the wall thickness varies from .0065 to .0071 from one side of the bushing to the other.....



Jim:  I'm not exactly sure what you mean by wall thickness; but the dimensions that you posted vary by 6 ten-thousandths of an inch.  I really don't think you can "see" that small a difference.  I just pulled a hair from my head......a major sacrifice as I don't have too many to spare......and it measured about 0.001".  That means the difference you are looking at is about half a "hair". [][] You must have really good eyes.  And in any event, I don't think that small a difference is going to significantly affect  the ability to turn a round pen???


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## jbyrd24 (Jan 26, 2006)

Just a note....Have turned many Sierras now. I haven't had any problems at all with the bushings. I'm using the bushings for the Wall Street II.[]


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## Randy_ (Jan 26, 2006)

> _Originally posted by jimr_<br />.....I mic'd as accurately as I could....



I'm puzzled....did you use a micrometer or a vernier caliper for your measurements??


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## Randy_ (Jan 26, 2006)

> _Originally posted by clewless_<br />...
> 
> My bushing are new, having only turned one pen so far...diameters .0246 and .0247 with wall .064 to .071.  My HF vernier accuracy +/- .001  so it looks like we're dealing with .005+/-variation....



Joe:  I guess the bushings I have are better than yours; but, at least, we are in the ball park.  Mine measure 0.066" to 0.068".  Are your bushings recently purchased or have you had them for a while??  Seems to me that I saw a post saying the problem had been fixed.  It would be nice to have some measurements from someone who has the earliest bushings.  Mine are relatively new and supposed to be OK.

BTW, a piece of newspaper is about 0.003" thick and supposedly about the smallest offset that the average human can feel.  If your bushings are out of round by 0.005" you are getting to the point where you should be able to "feel" the wood/metal interface on your pens.


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## Mikey (Jan 26, 2006)

.005 is actually pretty easy to see with the eye. .003 to me is a lot harder to see. .001 is near impossible. I know that if I take my set of feeler guages and look at each thickness, I can really see that one is thicker.

I have bought something like 4 sierra sets so far. The first cuple were junk. The last two sets yielded me one set of near perfect bushings, or at least it seemed that way at the time.


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## PatLawson (Jan 26, 2006)

> _Originally posted by jimr_
> <br />After I discovered that I was not the only one with problems with the Sierra kit bushings I tried a few more measurements.


There is a known problem with the Sierra bushings. It has now been corrected in a second version of them, but if you have the earlier bushings, you're gonna have a problem! The problem is that the step part of the bushings is too small in diameter and is a sloppy fit in the brass tube. This causes out-of-round problems when turning the barrel. I have one of the first sets of bushings and had the out-of-round problem. Can't believe I didn't notice how sloppy the fit is, but didn't think of it until someone told what the problem is. You need to use a "shim" inside your brass tube to make the bushings fit tighter. Either that or get the newer, corrected set of bushings.

Pat
Laguna Beach, CA
http://PensByPatricia.com/NewPens


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## Randy_ (Jan 26, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Mikey_<br />.....I have bought something like 4 sierra sets so far. The first cuple were junk. The last two sets yielded me one set of near perfect bushings, or at least it seemed that way at the time......



Mikey:  Do you still have a set of the old bushings and a vernier caliper so you could take some measurements for us??  Thanks,


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## jimr (Jan 26, 2006)

OK- so I got the first "0" on the wrong side of the decimal but I still think I can look down into the small end of the bushings and see a difference in thickness of the wall(between the hole and the outside of the bushing)If this is the case then I don't see where any kind of shim would correct the problem. If the small diameter is sloppy in the tube then some kind of "shim" should correct the problem although I sure don't know what i would use for a shim, maybe one layer of thin tape? This would be a real hassle every time I wanted to turn a pen or else dedicate one mandrel to only sierras. I had this problem with the first sierras I ordered and notified BB and he sent me the replacement I have now. This all happened within the past 2 weeks so I am not sure if the production problem was corrected or not. I guess I will just put up with it but it sure may reduce the number of sierra kits I order, and I really like the styling.


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## Randy_ (Jan 26, 2006)

Pat's post got me to thinking that maybe we have two different problems here.  We'll have to wait for a clarification from Jim on his measurements; but Pat's point is the diameter of the smaller step on the bushing is smaller than it should be to fit in the brass tubing snugly.  Soooooo.....I got out my measuring instruments a second time and measured the OD of the small step on the bushing and the ID of the brass tube.

Results:   Bushing= 0.3835"   Tube= 0.0391"  Difference= 0.0065"

I don't know what the difference should be; but, intuitively, that difference looks pretty big.  Think I will measure the bushings on one of my Jr Statesman kits to see how the bushing and the tube fit on that one??

I'll add those measurements on to the end of this post in a few minutes.

Update:  I won't bore you with all of the details; but the essential figure is that the bushings for my Jr Statesman kit are 2-3 thousandths smaller than the tubes.....much tighter than the Sierra bushings.


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## Randy_ (Jan 26, 2006)

Hey Jim:  Could you take a quick measurement of the OD of the small step on your bushing and offer a verbal description of how the bushing fits in the tube, i.e. snug, loose or very loose?  Thanks


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## jimr (Jan 26, 2006)

I will have to wait til tomorrow morning for that measurement. The fit of the bushing in the tube was a bit sloppy but I didn't think it was enough to cause the wobble I was having. You are right, there are two issues here(1) small end outside diameter and (2)what I think I have, a difference in the actual thickness of the bushing wall from one side to the other. Someone who has experienced this problem please look at the small end of the bushing and see if you think the wall thickness looks thinner on one side. If this is the problem then the bushing will never run true because the mandrel hole is not in the center of the bushing.


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## PatLawson (Jan 27, 2006)

> You are right, there are two issues here(1) small end outside diameter and (2)what I think I have, a difference in the actual thickness of the bushing wall from one side to the other. Someone who has experienced this problem please look at the small end of the bushing and see if you think the wall thickness looks thinner on one side. If this is the problem then the bushing will never run true because the mandrel hole is not in the center of the bushing.



Well I'll be darned! You are right Jim, I just inspected mine more closely and my bushings are not only a sloppy fit in the tube, but yes, the hole is off-center too! That just really amazes me because obviously the hole would be drilled first, then the metal turned down, so this shouldn't even be possible. But the hole is definitely off-center on mine. And btw, I've also discovered that one bushing is worse than the other. In fact one of my bushings may actually be okay. Anyway Jim, my observations agree with yours. Whether it is one or two problems, the thing that is pretty clear to me is that these bushings really shouldn't be used at all. [] 
Pat


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## PenWorks (Jan 27, 2006)

Bottom line is they BITE big time. This seems to be a very popular new pen kit, I like the looks of the kit and easy to make. But definately has issues with the bushings and loose threads in the mechanism.
Jim.......are you listening.......??
Do you hear your customers.......??
Sure would be nice to see some fixes come down the pipe, or you might end up with a couple of thousand kits that are useless.[)]


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## snoplow (Jan 27, 2006)

Just eyeballed mine, and they are bad too. Sloppy in the tube and the hole is off center. .013 difference in wall thickness. (approx) I purchased mine in Dec. from AS.


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## Randy_ (Jan 27, 2006)

Gee.......will this ever stop???[][]

Guess that I will have to get out my dial indicator tomorrow and put the Sierra bushings on the mandrel and see what kind of runout I get.  I'm thinking we may need to get BB in on this discussion??


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## Randy_ (Jan 27, 2006)

I agree that this is a great kit and it would be a shame to avoid it just because the bushings suck.  For those who are having bushing problems, you can always make your own bushings.  I've done that before.....made my own bushings out of Corian.....and you can do it on your lathe.  You could also use aluminum or brass.  Both are soft enough that you could use your own turning tools.  They would not last as long as steel bushings and you would have to be careful about sanding dust; but it "CAN" be done!!!


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## Mikey (Jan 27, 2006)

Sorry, didn't see any posts after the one I posted last night. I will go out to the shop later when I get home and start measuring. In another post I mentioned that I dumped my tray out on the floor, so I guess this gives me a chance to sort them all out.[]

What I really wanted to say was that my wife's friends have all seen my pens and by far the choice with girls is the Sierra. More popular than Barons, and even slimlines. In fact, I have an order placed for a custom pink one.


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## Mac In Oak Ridge (Jan 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by PatLawson_
> 
> That just really amazes me because obviously the hole would be drilled first, then the metal turned down,



Pat,
Not necessarily.  It would not be out of the ordinary for the bushing manufacturer to buy tubing with the hole already formed in it and then just turn the outside dimensions.  It is far cheaper to make a tube with a hole in it than it is to drill a hole in each bushing as it is manufactured.  A bad run of tubing from a tube mill or a bad chuck in a automatic screw machine and every bushing will have the hole off center.
Mac


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## Rifleman1776 (Jan 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Mac In Oak Ridge_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...



  All that may be correct. But it is no excuse for a supplier to knowingly ship a defective product. I have avoided the Sierra because of previous discussion just like this one. The problems are not imaginary if so many report them.


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## Old Griz (Jan 27, 2006)

> _
> Jim.......are you listening.......??
> Do you hear your customers.......??
> _


_

Jim.......are you listening.......?? Probably not, he once told me that the people who go to these forums should not even be turning pens.. so I doubt he even sees what is going on here.

Do you hear your customers.......?? He also informed me that he has forgotten more about pen design than anyone else will ever know.  I tried to talk to him about the directions for a pen not being complete, and was told that if I could not figure out what to do, I should not be turning pens... 

Now I like Berea's products and will continue to purchase them, but the attitude of the owner leaves a bit to be desired... the other gentleman who works there will spend as much time as you need explaining anything you need._


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## wayneis (Jan 27, 2006)

Tom how long are you going to beat that horse, that conversation happened a long time ago.

Wayne


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## alamocdc (Jan 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by wayneis_
> <br />Tom how long are you going to beat that horse, that conversation happened a long time ago.
> 
> Wayne


Maybe so, Wayne, but the company told me that there were nothing wrong with the bushings (even though they had new ones made with a better tolerance) and that "...literally thousands of Sierras had been made with them." And that was in November. I'm still using the original set that I "modified" so that I could get a concentric pen and have not yet checked the fit of the new ones I got.

The point is simply that this sort of customer support is sorely lacking. Granted, I may not turn the best pens on the planet, but compared to many others I've seen at shows and craft fairs... well, let's just say I wouldn't dare try to market much of what I've seen.


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## Old Griz (Jan 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by wayneis_
> <br />Tom how long are you going to beat that horse, that conversation happened a long time ago.
> 
> Wayne



Does that make it any less true??? It is an example of how he thinks..


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## Dario (Jan 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Rifleman_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...



Frank,

I agree with you...but do give Sierra a try and you'll probably like it.  It is one of my favorite kits.

I am not happy with the bushing too but that didn't stop me.  I'll probably buy a new set when I order a new batch of Sierra kits.


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## LanceD (Jan 27, 2006)

I bought two new sets from Beartooth woods thinking they would be a better fit than the original i bought from AS several months ago but that wasn't the case, they were still too loose. Now what i do is take a piece of the plastic bag that the parts came in and lay it against the hole on the two ends of the blank and push the bushings into to hole then put the blank onto the mandrel. The plastic takes up the extra space with a tight fit and theres no play whatsoever


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## Rifleman1776 (Jan 27, 2006)

Dario, thanks for the encouragement. But this is supposed to be a fun avocation. Having to modify, shim, stuff, adjust or whatever to make something work that should be right in the first place is not my idea of fun. When/if they get it right, I'll reconsider.


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## jimr (Jan 27, 2006)

Randy, you asked about the OD of the small step. Both of my bushings measure .3845.
I did not realize when I started this thread that this was so wide spread a problem. I certainly did not intend for it to become a personal issue. My feeling is that Berea has to know the bushings are defective and apparently they are not willing to do anything about it. That is very unfortunate for a company like them who really does have excellent products because in the long run they will suffer for it. 
I think I will just try to "make do" and probably avoid ordering what I think is a super pen kit. If I figure out a way to EASILY fix my problem I may think about getting some more.


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## Old Griz (Jan 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by LanceD_
> <br />I bought two new sets from Beartooth woods thinking they would be a better fit than the original i bought from AS several months ago but that wasn't the case, they were still too loose. Now what i do is take a piece of the plastic bag that the parts came in and lay it against the hole on the two ends of the blank and push the bushings into to hole then put the blank onto the mandrel. The plastic takes up the extra space with a tight fit and theres no play whatsoever



No matter what reseller you purchase the bushings from, you are still getting bushings made by Berea... the resellers do not make their own bushings...


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## PatLawson (Jan 27, 2006)

Mac wrote:
&gt;&gt;...It would not be out of the ordinary for the bushing manufacturer to buy tubing with the hole already formed in it and then just turn the outside dimensions... A bad run of tubing from a tube mill or a bad chuck in a automatic screw machine and every bushing will have the hole off center.&lt;&lt;

Ahha. Okay, that makes more sense Mac.

Randy wrote:
&gt;&gt;I agree that this is a great kit and it would be a shame to avoid it just because the bushings suck.  For those who are having bushing problems, you can always make your own bushings.&lt;&lt;

Absolutely Randy. I'm not going to avoid the kit. My best bushings are my calipers anyway. And if you can turn a pen, you can turn a set of bushings. (And Mac, I will drill the hole first and then turn the bushings! Lol.)

Pat L.

Laguna Beach, CA
http://PensByPatricia.com/NewPens


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## KC (Jan 27, 2006)

I just got a new set yesterday from AS, which we know comes from Berea. I looked at these, and the hole is quite obviously not centered in one of them, and not quite so obviously not centered on the other.  One of them is a good fit on the tube, one is not.  Like someone else mentioned, I use the calipers on the Sierra...bit it is irritating as hell to know that they realize a problem exists, perhaps has been corrected, yet we still get 'bad' ones.  When are the bad ones gonna be removed from stock and only good ones shipped?

KC


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## alamocdc (Jan 27, 2006)

Well that's not good. I have the original run set (had to modify) and one of the newer sets that was supposed to correct the problem. I have not checked the new ones yet, but I will now. [V]


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## Mikey (Jan 27, 2006)

The problem, even when using calipers is: If the hole is off center, then the blank will be spinning on a concentric, so even with use of calipers, you will still get an out of round pen. the only way this is solved is if you make your own bushings or start with a set that is round to begin with.


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## vbatwork (Jan 27, 2006)

Wouldn't it be nice if once a problem like this is addressed and fixed by the manufacturer, a little Version 2 sticker were applied to the package?

I've been playing around with pens for almost a year now. I'd hate to see the kind of bushings I'm capable of at this point! [V] I'll be avoiding the Sierra until I can get a good set of bushings from someone.


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## gerryr (Jan 27, 2006)

I don't believe this problem is confined just to the Sierra.  I ordered a few Sierras not too long after they came out and also ordered a couple of Churchills.  One of the smaller bushings for the Churchill was also eccentric.  I've only made three of them and until I sell some, I won't be ordering any more.  I wonder if Berea switched bushing suppliers?


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## Bill Baumbeck (Jan 27, 2006)

We have become aware there there are some bushings for this pen (20A) in which the center hole was drilled and reamed off-center and we did receive and ship some of these inaccurate bushings.  We have removed from inventory the entire lot that we had on hand are expecting a new shipment of bushings on Monday, January 30. 

Should you have a pair of 20A bushings that were purchased from us during the month of December, 2005 and up to January 27, 2006 that you suspect are drilled off-center we will replace them for you.  Please keep in mind that not all bushing sets were made incorrectly.

I apologize for the inconvenience.

Bill Baumbeck
Arizona Silhouette
www,arizonasilhouette.com


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## cd18524 (Jan 27, 2006)

I just recieved a new set of bushings yesterday from AS and they are from the not so good group.  I am glad that BB has been made aware of the problem and is stepping up to take care of his customers.

chris


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## jimr (Jan 27, 2006)

Bill, I really appreciate your post on this matter. This is the second set, as you know, that you sent and they are also off centered. I will be glad to mail you back this set, just like I did the first off center set and I would greatly appreciate receiving a set of bushings that have been corrected. If you need my address, please let me know. 
Thanks for your consideration

Jim Reasoner


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## nightmoon (Jan 28, 2006)

Hi everyone im just getting started pen turning. I was turning the sierra pen and i also had a wobble problem. After reading this topic i measured my bushings. They both are .011 off from one wall thickness to the other [ .063-.074 ] im having enough problems without this. Guess ill give AS a call on monday. How are the polaris pens, any problems? Thank you ALL for all the good advice and knowledge. Gary/ Golden Colorado


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## Randy_ (Jan 28, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Old Griz_<br />....Now I like Berea's products and will continue to purchase them, but the attitude of the owner leaves a bit to be desired...



Does Berea even sell this kit??  I don't see it on their web site??  Far as I know this kit is only available from Woodcraft and Arizona Silhouettes.  Seems to me that our beef is with the guy "WE" get the pens from....and not Berea....so their attitude in this isn't relevant.  If AS and Woodcraft are dissatisfied with the stock they are receiving from their suppliers, then "THEY" need to deal with it.  Who do you think the supplier is going to pay more attention to, the pencrafter who makes 10 kits a year or the reseller who orders the kits by the thousands??


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## Randy_ (Jan 28, 2006)

> _Originally posted by jimr_<br />Randy, you asked about the OD of the small step. Both of my bushings measure .3845.
> I did not realize when I started this thread that this was so wide spread a problem. I certainly did not intend for it to become a personal issue......



Thanks for the measurement, Jim.  We are within a thou of each other.  Guess a our mikes were made at the same shop and certainly not the place where the bushings were manufactured.  [][][]

Not quite sure what the last line suggests.  Sort of sounds like you are apologizing for this thread??  Don't!!  I think everyone will agree that by raising this issue, you have done a real service to the pen crafting community.  Firstly, you have caused a lot of people to be informed of a problem that they may not have been aware of and secondly....since I have already read the rest of the thread......you have attracted the attention of BB of AS and we have discovered that there is a resolution to the problem, forthcoming, and that as we have come to expect from BB, folks who have a problem will have their difficulties taken care of.  BB has always been an up-front guy and this is just another example!!  So, I say thanks to you for raising the subject and waving the flag to attract some attention.  Good job!!!  [^][^]


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## Randy_ (Jan 28, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Bill Baumbeck_<br />....there are some bushings for this pen (20A) in which the center hole was drilled and reamed off-center...we will replace them for you......



So much for the speculation about how the bushings are manufactured.....now we know.

Thanks, Bill!!  We all knew you would come through for us when the chips were down!![][]


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## Randy_ (Jan 28, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Mikey_
> <br />The problem, even when using calipers is: If the hole is off center, then the blank will be spinning on a concentric, so even with use of calipers, you will still get an out of round pen. the only way this is solved is if you make your own bushings or start with a set that is round to begin with....



Mikey, that's the way I see it, too!!  

Not sure; but I think if you would rotate the blank on the mandrel(no not the mandrel; but rather on the bushings) 3 times by a quarter turn each time, you would get a barrel that was reasonably round and  concentric; but you would have to be real careful and use a caliper and rotate before you got down to the bushing.  If you turned all the way down to the bushing before rotating the blank, one part of the pen would already be too thin and not match with the hardware.  This is really just some mental gymnastics as it would be a real pain to actually accomplish the feat!!


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## alamocdc (Jan 28, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Randy__
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, Randy, Berea is the source. I have spoken to them about this personally. They DO NOT care. Fortunately, as can be seen by his post above, BB is doing what he can to appease the masses. BTW, Ernie at Beartooth also sells the Sierra.


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## Mikey (Jan 28, 2006)

Finally found all the bushings I have and my dial calipers.

The 2 sets of "undersized" bushings I have all have ODs on the large end of .475 and ODs on the small end of .383 The wall thicknesses of the small end that fits into the tube are within a thousandth as far as I could tell, so he holes are centered. In reading another post in this topic, the poster used a plastic bag as shim stock. I slid a plastic pen bag into my calipers and what do you know.... .004. if I add the bag and cut, I should be able to get the .387 that I got below on the "corrected bushings".

The two sets of "corrected bushings I have all have ODs at .475 on the Large end, bt ODs of .387 on the small end. It would seem these fit much better into the tube except that the wall thicknesses of each bushing vary greatly. #1 .064-.072 #2 .066-.071 #3 .064-.073 and #4 .065-.072 These numbers confirm the theory that the corrected bushings were "drilled" wrong. 

The tubes I have measure .390 at the ID, so the corrected bushing diameter of .387 is Ok for me I guess. I don't know why they settlled on .387, but it should work fine. Personally, I would rather have to push the bushings into the tubes and then have to knock them out, but I assume everyone isn't like me. (that would be sad)


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## clewless (Jan 28, 2006)

Just shared my findings with Ernie @ beartoothwoods. .064-.074 walls with .385 diameter.

He said that he will be looking into it ASAP. Off to check his inventory...

So folks, the aftermarket guys are being very up front with us, hopefully, they will be able to bring pressure to bear (multi-puns not intended.)  

Joe in MD


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## Pen Man (Jan 28, 2006)

I have been out to Berea shop 2 times From Lincoln, Nebraska. Just the first of the year. From the time the kit came out till now I bought from Him about 600 of them (no I have not made all them) about 40 so far and I I love the kits[]. I seen there was a problem,[] but now you have pointed it out it is really noticeable. I HOPE THEY GET THE THIRD SET RIGHT.


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## Randy_ (Jan 29, 2006)

> _Originally posted by alamocdc_<br />...Yes, Randy, Berea is the source.....



Hey Billy:  I understand that Berea is the manufacturer of this kit; but what I still am not sure I understand is if one( me ) can call up Berea and order the bushings and a couple of kits.  For some reason, I was under the impression that you could "ONLY" get this kit from a Berea reseller like AS, Woodcraft or Beartooth?? I don't have the current Berea catalog; but I can't find the Sierra kit offered on their web site???  Thanks.


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## Randy_ (Jan 29, 2006)

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SUPERIOR TOOLING
We also make every attempt to provide superior tooling such as industrial quality parabolic drills, precision made bushings and mandrels.


What you can expect from us:
â€¢ To be treated well
â€¢ To receive high quality kits and wood.
â€¢ To be offered products that are priced fairly.
â€¢ To receive outstanding technical support
â€¢ To have problems solved quickly and fairly
â€¢ WE ARE HERE TO HELP YOU IN ANY WAY WE CAN


Found the above while surfing the net.  "Sounds" good doesn't it!![B)]


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## myname1960 (Jan 29, 2006)

I purchased an El Grande and Churchill kit from a local WC store in December. I bought the bushings that were for these kits and the only mandrill they offered. Both sets used the same bushings.

 When trying the bushings in the tubes they fit fine ( about .0005 difference ) but my problem came in when i wanted to put the bushings on the mandrill. There was about a .040 diameter difference in bushing/mandill fit. Yep that was about .040 and not .004 difference. I didnt check the wall thickness as i never figured i needed too.

 I called and asked about a larger mandrill shaft but they said they only carried the one size and it will work. The guy at the store told me to use the existing bushings with my mandrill but be sure to tighten it up good. He said it will all work out fine that way. [V]

 Now you should have seen what that looked like and i did try to center them the best i could. By the way i never even put them on my lathe and tried it. I only imagined what would happen if the bushings shifted on the mandrill when running it. I think they need to get a larger size mandrill shaft for these bushings like other suppliers do.

 Ok the story does have a good ending as i work in a machine shop and have access to lathes so i can make bushings that fit my smaller mandrill shaft. I turned the ods and bored the ids myself. I now have bushings that have at most .0005 difference between the bushings/tubes and .001 difference between the bushing/mandrills. Now this set runs a lot truer. [^]

 If i want to get the Sierra kit do i need to make my own bushings or will they have the problem solved soon? If i had a way of knowing the correct bushing size i might be able to make a set for the Sierra's kits i want to get. If they cant get it right i know i can. []

Chris


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## alamocdc (Jan 29, 2006)

Chris, from the sounds of it, I'd make my own. Third time may be a charm here, but...


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## Randy_ (Jan 30, 2006)

On 1/29/06, admin@penturners.org &lt;admin@penturners.org&gt; wrote: 
Here is a new post in that topic from 'myname1960'
I purchased an El Grande and Churchill kit from a local WC store in December. I bought the bushings that were for these kits and the only mandrill they offered. Both sets used the same bushings. 


Chris:  If you buy the El Grande kit and bushings from Berea you will get bushings for the Berea "B" mandrel which has a diameter of 0.291 as opposed to the 0.247 OD of the 7 mm mandrel......mandrel difference = 0.044".  My understanding is that Woodcraft has special bushings made up so that Berea kits that require the "B" mandrel can be turned on the WC 
7 mm mandrels.  Sounds like WC messed up and sent you some Berea "B" bushings by mistake.  The size difference is almost exactly the same as the difference that you found. 

I'm not familiar with the Churchill kit so I can't help you there??


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## myname1960 (Jan 30, 2006)

Randy,

 Thank you for the information. The .040 difference was a top of the head number and the .044 is correct. I went to a local WC store and picked up the El Grande and Churchill Kits the same time i got the bushings for the kits. Both kits take the same bushings. 

 My second conversation with this WC store i actually spoke to the owner and she said sometimes it happens like that where the bushings are a little different from the kits. I was a little put off by it but already had my own set of homemade bushings that fit correctly so i left it alone. 

 The only thing they could have done to actually make it right to me was give me the money back i paid for the bushings but i did use their bushing's numbers ( with corrections ) to make mine with so i felt i was even. Well now i have 2 sets of bushings for the same kit that i can use on 2 different sized mandrels. 

Thanks again for the information, I will pass it along to the local WC store so no one else will have this problem.

Chris



> _Originally posted by Randy__
> <br />On 1/29/06, admin@penturners.org &lt;admin@penturners.org&gt; wrote:
> Here is a new post in that topic from 'myname1960'
> I purchased an El Grande and Churchill kit from a local WC store in December. I bought the bushings that were for these kits and the only mandrill they offered. Both sets used the same bushings.
> ...


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