# Are there issues with a thick CA finish?



## patmurris (Dec 18, 2011)

Just wondering how much is too much and if there are any issues with a thick CA finish.

A penturner friend argued a thick finish is more likely to crack over time?


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## Displaced Canadian (Dec 18, 2011)

I haven't had any of mine crack.


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## Drstrangefart (Dec 18, 2011)

I've never had a properly done thick CA finish unless mistreated. Thick finishes uave 2 issues to navigate. A: Pressing parts in without a crack forming. That's usually from pressure on a burr leftover from removing bushings. 2: getting it back to the right outer diameter for the pen. That's just a matter of practice. If you don't, be ready to have your pen looking under-turned.   

Beyond those 2 issues, usually there aren't any problems with a thick finish.


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## Gary Beasley (Dec 18, 2011)

If you are talking about using thick CA to do the finish you might have problems with ridges and ripples that refuse to die down after you wipe it on. Medium seems to be the best balance between the ease and smoothness of thin and the speed of buildup you would get with thick.


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## soligen (Dec 18, 2011)

If you are talking about final film thickness, I put it on really thick. I turn below the bushings so I can put it on really think. I have built it up to about 1/32" thick to correct an over turned pen (I still have it - over a year now). I have made a label pen, where instead of casting in resin, I used about 1/2 a bottle of CA to build up a blank thick enough for turning.

I haven't had a problem yet. I have had true stone crack (no CA finish) - I traced it to a flaw in my mod. All other cracks I have had were due to misalignment while pressing.


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## leehljp (Dec 18, 2011)

I have used medium and thick CA to apply some fairly thick finishes in years past to duck calls and none have cracked.

I have seen a one or two pictures posted on this forum in the past of cracked CA. The posters were trying to figure out why. I don't think a definitive reason was reached. But the fact is 99.9999% will not have a problem with thick, thicker and really thick and then . . . one will crack.

In all probability, it will be a combination of green wood, temp, humidity, and bad/old CA (or attempting to thin aging thick CA) or storage under glass with sunlight. I am not counting the problems mentioned by others of pressing and fitting. When problems develop in which there are two or three problems coming together it is hard to track down the problem precisely. And then one of the elements takes all of the blame, in this case "thick" CA or "thick" finish.


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## Hubert H (Dec 18, 2011)

This is complete agreement with Hank.  HWH


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## Texatdurango (Dec 18, 2011)

Anyone can argue any position, go into any bar on a saturday night and you'll get an earfull on just about any subject from the local experts!

I won't argue the thickness issue but will say I have seen more complaints of thin finishes wearing off or crazing than thick finishes cracking so I am comfortable with a nice thick finish if a nice deep look is what I'm after.  Just a few weeks ago I had a bout with several pens cracking but that had to do with the CA being old when I applied it, not the thickness of the finishes.  

I like Hank's reply....... ya gotta blame something and if you don't know for certain and really can't prove anything, a good guess sounds just as good as a bad one!


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## bitshird (Dec 18, 2011)

I agree with Hank and George, I think most problems which can be addressed to a CA finish are Aged CA, or green wood shrinking under the CA or just plain miss treatment, like sun on a glass show case or the dash of a car.


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## el_d (Dec 18, 2011)

Yep old CA or green wood caused me some cracks on a pretty thick finish.


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## rej19 (Dec 18, 2011)

What do we mean by aged CA? Is it the shelf life before opening or after opening? I don't want to stock up on CA if shelf life is an issue. I keep my unopened in the fridge by the way?


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## patmurris (Dec 18, 2011)

...to be more accurate, i think what i heard regarding a thick finish is that it is less 'flexible' and more likely to crack if the wood 'moves' because of temperature or humidity variations?

It seems to me CA is not flexible at all regardless of the thickness, but that's just my impression.


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## leehljp (Dec 18, 2011)

patmurris said:


> ...to be more accurate, i think what i heard regarding a thick finish is that it is less 'flexible' and more likely to crack if the wood 'moves' because of temperature or humidity variations?
> 
> It seems to me CA is not flexible at all regardless of the thickness, but that's just my impression.



Well, that is not totally true, IMO, but I cannot give "empirial" evidence. Just as George stated about his pens, mine usually have a good thick coat. I have dropped pens numerous times and some are 4 to 5 years old with a good thick coating and no cracks yet. I do have a couple of small dents on my favorite pen, but no cracks. If the CA were not flexible as in a class like glass or some ceramics, they would have certainly shattered. 

I can promise you that if CA were not "flexible at all regardless of thickness", then the shear huge number of people making CA finished pens on this forum for the past 7 years would have certainly reported it. If CA were not "flexible" in some very forgiving respects, it would not be in use today by the vast numbers of users. How else can it be explained millions(?) of CA finished pens made and only a few dozen or so with cracked finish, and most of those from assembly problems. 

IN the case of flexibility - Where CA IS flexible: 
On oily woods, and in the case where the finished blank is CA'ed to the bushings, - in separating the bushings, the CA "lifts" from the blank. This is a common problem and can be searched on this forum. Just search for "lift" or "lifting". What happens is important to your idea. IF CA were not flexible, it would shatter or crack. But in these cases it "lifts" from the wood. I have pulled pieces of that were as thick as a fingernail and while "hard", it is more like acrylic or plexiglas or a finger nail than glass. And in my own experience, the thicker is less likely to crack than thin. The thicker the CA finish, the more it seems to be like a "shock absorber" as in lexan.

When CA is used on end cut and some other woods that are very prone to "movement", especially if the wood is green, then yes, it will crack as will poly or acrylic or lacquer. The only way to prevent wood movement when, especially when it is green is to stabilize it. Some woods move more than others. IN the case of cross grain or end grain pens, the problem is not the CA but the wood. Wood moves unless it is stabilized.


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## GoatRider (Dec 19, 2011)

rej19 said:


> What do we mean by aged CA? Is it the shelf life before opening or after opening? I don't want to stock up on CA if shelf life is an issue. I keep my unopened in the fridge by the way?



Both actually. It has a shelf life, it will start to degrade even without opening it. Once you open it exposure to air it will degrade it faster. So it doesn't pay to stock up. Only buy as much as you can use in a few months.


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## patmurris (Dec 20, 2011)

...this CA aging issue is somewhat troubling... How do manufacturers and distributors manage to store CA then? When you buy CA you have no idea how long it has been sitting... there is no manufacture date or expiration date either.


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## soligen (Dec 20, 2011)

patmurris said:


> ...this CA aging issue is somewhat troubling... How do manufacturers and distributors manage to store CA then? When you buy CA you have no idea how long it has been sitting... there is no manufacture date or expiration date either.


 
I think you just have to find a vendor that you know has young stock. It is a reputation thing. US Composits has a good reputation for shipping fresh PR, and I think Monty turns over his CA stock quick, so it is fresh. When in doubt, Ask! If they cant/wont answer, go elsewhere.

Edit:  Just noticed you are in France, so my suggested vendors may not help, leaving you the "Ask" alternative.


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## PenMan1 (Dec 20, 2011)

bitshird said:


> I agree with Hank and George, I think most problems which can be addressed to a CA finish are Aged CA, or green wood shrinking under the CA or just plain miss treatment, like sun on a glass show case or the dash of a car.



Or..... The person applying the finish (but we don't like to confess to those errors). I used the new Stick Fast thin/then medium finish system.

I like George and Lee prefer the big thick finish look. BUT, with my short attention span, I usually manage to leave some paper towel or some other stupid thing before I can get the thick CA finish cured.

IMHO, the Stick Fast system has the same "deep" look as thick CA and is easier for me to apply.


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## Texatdurango (Dec 20, 2011)

PenMan1 said:


> bitshird said:
> 
> 
> > I agree with Hank and George, I think most problems which can be addressed to a CA finish are Aged CA, or green wood shrinking under the CA or just plain miss treatment, like sun on a glass show case or the dash of a car.
> ...


 
Seems like I'm always the last to learn about new things, what is the stick fast system?  Is it CA or another glue?


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## bgio13 (Dec 20, 2011)

George, I believe this is the Stick Fast system being refered to, which is carried by Oklahoman.

http://www.classicnib.com/stick-fast-ca-and-ca-finish.html

Bill


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## PenMan1 (Dec 20, 2011)

George:
Stick Fast is a new CA finishing system made here in Georgia. It starts with 2-3 coats of a special slower cure thin CA, followed by a special slow cure medium CA, and then finally uses two specially formulated polishes that give an amazing finish in less than 5 minutes.

It produces EXCELLENT results and eliminates a lot of the issues with conventional CA finishes. No yellow socks, purple socks or special chants required. The finish is so deep that it almost looks like PR casting.

Just Google Stick Fast CA pen finishes.


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## ohiococonut (Dec 20, 2011)

I tend to think that what matters more than the thickness of the ca used is the amount of ca applied to the pen. 

I don't even have thick ca but I can apply enough coats of thin and or medium to accomplish the same thing, it just takes longer. I don't use it sparingly either. My .02


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