# what are my options



## pedro68 (Dec 16, 2012)

hi there , i am new to pen turning and have been trying the ca finish with limited results ,on some of my pens the ca has went on and had a slight rippled effect on it ,i was wondering if this is because im trying to build up the thickness to quickly.i have been applying 4 or 5 coats of medium ca and then using micro mesh  from 1500  down to 120000 to smooth it out and then polishing with T cut car polish.the results are okay but i am looking to improve greatly as i would like that glass like high polished look . i would also like to know what other finishes everyone applies like friction polishes and wax's etc and the pros and cons of these .the turning side of things im fine with and traditional finishes are no problem ,just this blasted ca stuff .HELP PLEASE


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## Haynie (Dec 16, 2012)

I HATE CA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  When it works it is pretty.  When it doesn't it is a big ol PIA.  I just finished screwing up a finish for the THIRD time.  Everything is fine until I try to separate it from the bushings.  People will say to practice on scrap and I will agree with them.  That being said I am really beginning to HATE CA.


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## reporp21 (Dec 16, 2012)

Haynie, I use to have the same problem trying to separate the blank from the bushings.  Then I found this.  ELIMINATOR 805 REV II Finishing Bushings [ELIMINATOR_805_REV_II] - $8.79 : Penturners Products!. I no longer had that problem.


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## tim self (Dec 16, 2012)

Have you been sanding long ways as well? It's about the only way to remove the ridges and ripples. Really no need past 3200.


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## Lenny (Dec 16, 2012)

reporp21 has the right idea ... John's Eliminator bushing work great ... especially if you take some time and wax them before using. I Never use standard bushings.... better to just place them between 60 degree centers. Sometimes if the ca does bond them to the centers you might need to cut them free with skew or a utility knife with the lathe OFF.

Pedro, sounds like you have already had some success ... I would suggest you stick with it. I like to sand with 400-600 and often continue 1000 -1200- 1500 stopping the lathe and sanding the blank lengthwise before switching to the next grit. Then I clean the blank with a little CA accelerator on a paper towel. For the first 3 coats I use thin CA, switching to Med. CA for the next several coats until I get a good build up. I mist a little accelerator on every 3 coats or so as needed. Don't worry too much what it looks like at this point, you just want enough build up that when it's wet sanded with the MM you, #1. Won't sand through the finish and #2. Will be at the proper size to match up to the components. Follow that up with PlastX (available at car parts store or WallyWorld).


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## Leviblue (Dec 16, 2012)

There are close to as many ways to do CA finishes as there members here. I sand with 400 grit paper to find my high and low spots and work from there. The glossy areas will show up against to sanded matte finish and you know where its the lowest. Keep sanding a little along until you have a consistent matte finish. Its not uncommon to need to apply more CA if your low spots are to thin. After that micro mesh and buff. 
I've also been putting a Walnut oil finish on the non oily woods, burnish and buff. 

Good luck


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## commercialbuilder (Dec 16, 2012)

Get some of the craft foam from eBay or michaels etc. and cut it into 3/4" strips. Put a drop of thin ca on the foam and apply to the blank. You will find the foam does no absorb the ca and really puts the coat on smoothly. Since I have started using the foam I get a very high gloss finish with minimal sanding. After 4-5 coats of thin  I switch to medium ca for 8-10 coats then lightly sand  then apply another 2-4 coats of thin then sand and polish to a high gloss finish. You can apply 5-10 coats before turning the foam over and using the other side. After you use both sides tear off the used portion and you are ready to  go again.
I bought some of the Dr.? From craft supply and I really like the scratch free results, sorry I cannot think,oh the name.


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## pedro68 (Dec 16, 2012)

hi there , thanks for the replys . i will try some of your suggestions and see if i can improve my results and let you know the outcome ,i think i may try adding more coats and see how it goes ,i have found that softer woods such as maple and lime produced better results than say bubinga and the likes ,dont know what . i suppose its a learning curve that everyone must go on.


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## Jim Burr (Dec 16, 2012)

tim self said:


> Have you been sanding long ways as well? It's about the only way to remove the ridges and ripples. Really no need past 3200.


 
Maybe 6k...but I agree...can anyone really tell the difference if it's done right?


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## 76winger (Dec 16, 2012)

pedro68 said:


> hi there , i am new to pen turning and have been trying the ca finish with limited results ,on some of my pens the ca has went on and *had a slight rippled effect on it* ,i was wondering if this is because im trying to build up the thickness to quickly*.i have been applying 4 or 5 coats of medium ca and then using micro mesh  from 1500  down to 120000 to smooth it out *and then polishing with T cut car polish.the results are okay but i am looking to improve greatly as i would like that glass like high polished look . i would also like to know what other finishes everyone applies like friction polishes and wax's etc and the pros and cons of these .the turning side of things im fine with and traditional finishes are no problem ,just this blasted ca stuff .HELP PLEASE



Usually end up with some "rippling" in the coating when I use multiple coats of medium CA as well. To resolve it, after I'm done applying the coats and it's dried and ready to start sanding, I usually with 320 grit to sand off the high point of the ripples. You can watch them disappear because the sanded areas are dull while to lower valleys are still shiny. And just before they're completely gone, I stop the lathe and sand lengthwise all the way around to finish smoothing out. Afterwards do the same (lightly) with 400 & 600 grit, then hit the Micromesh and go through the all steps. 

Recently I've started putting more thin coats on and allow each coat to dry, not using accelerator. It's providing a smoother surface to finish, allowing maybe a very light light sanding with 400 & 600 and then on to MM. I've started doing this due to some crackling in CA finishes discussed in other threads on a particular brand of CA glue and it's been working so far. 

Good luck!


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## Ulises Victoria (Dec 16, 2012)

pedro68 said:


> ... from 1500  down to 120000 to smooth it out



Just curious.... how long does it take you to go from 1500 to 120000 :tongue:


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## pedro68 (Dec 17, 2012)

oooops haha:redface:


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## mpex (Dec 17, 2012)

I've really been struggling with my CA coats over the past week.  I've been turning for about a month now.  I thought I had it down but for some reason I'm struggling again.  
The two problems that I have are either sanding through all the CA with the MicroMesh (wet) at the end, or having an uneven coating.
What I do:  Sometimes I use Satellite City Medium but mostly Thin, with closed cell foam.  I apply it by wiping length wise while turning the lathe slowly by hand. Alternately, I turn the lathe at 250rpm (slowest setting) while I drip a single drop or two above the blank with the closed cell below. Inspect for unevenness.  Sand either turning on the lathe, or most recently, by hand running the length of the tube with 600grit until the high spots are gone.  Apply 5-7 more coats inspecting and sanding between each one.  After the last coat is on, I sand one more time by hand running the length of the tube with 600 grit.  Then I go through the Micro Mesh pads wet on the lathe turning at various speeds.
I just can't find the balance between eliminating the high spots by sanding and leaving enough CA on the blank to not wear through with the MM.

One thing I've wondered, I've seen a lot of people on here that apply some coats of thin and some of medium.  Some do thin first, some last.  I have not given this a try yet.  For those of you who use this method, can you speak to the advantages?

Any other suggestions?

And BTW, I'm completely mad at this forum.  I went from making a pen in 1 hour to my current speed of around 2.5-3 hours / pen and it's all your fault.  TBC, digital calipers, CA, Micromesh etc.  But oh what a beauty when I turn out a good one.  So I guess, thanks are more in order.


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## Ulises Victoria (Dec 17, 2012)

These are MY methods. They may or may not work for you, but as I did, once gave them a try and found they work for me.

Method 1
1.- 12-14 coats of thin OR 5-6 coats of medium CA. NO sanding at all between coats. Just a light spray of accelerator.
2.-Sand on the lathe with 400 abranet until *all shiny spots are gone*. Then a light pass of 600 just to smooth things out.
3.- Polish with Stick Fast Satin and then with Stick Fast Gloss.

Method 2
1.- as above
2.- Wet-sand with MM from 1500 to 12000
3.- Finish with HUT Plastic Polish.

I've found the delrin bushings a really big help here.


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## jhprice (Dec 18, 2012)

Jim Burr said:


> Maybe 6k...but I agree...can anyone really tell the difference if it's done right?



I consistently MM to 12000. Basically, the wood shines at that point. The finish is to just protect the wood. Some woods are done with CA and some with  friction polish. Depends on the wood and the anticipated use. 

CA gets several thin coats followed by several medium. Abranet to level then repeat the MM up thru 12k, again. Follow up with auto polish and finish with carnauba wax. 

Friction polish is much easier. Apply using my French polish pad until it glows and the pores are filled. Cap with caranuba. Admire.

John Price -  www.pensnbowls.com


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## mach9 (Dec 19, 2012)

I struggled with CA for a long time and finally got it down and you can too. I'll offer a couple of things as far as having the bushings sticking to the blank. When I'm through sanding/finishing on the lathe, I back off of the pressure on the tail stock just a little. Then I take a small piece of metal or the edge of a flat file and lightly tap each bushing a couple of times (don't hit the blank!). This "jars" them loose from the blank and they usually slide right off. I usually still have just a little CA protruding past the end of the blank, so I just touch them with a nice, sharp barrel trimmer. Hit them lightly with the buffing wheel and they're ready to go. Hope this helps. MJ


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## mdburn_em (Dec 20, 2012)

pedro68 said:


> hi there , i am new to pen turning and have been trying the ca finish with limited results ,on some of my pens the ca has went on and had a slight rippled effect on it ,i was wondering if this is because im trying to build up the thickness to quickly.i have been applying 4 or 5 coats of medium ca and then using micro mesh  from 1500  down to 120000 to smooth it out and then polishing with T cut car polish.the results are okay but i am looking to improve greatly as i would like that glass like high polished look . i would also like to know what other finishes everyone applies like friction polishes and wax's etc and the pros and cons of these .the turning side of things im fine with and traditional finishes are no problem ,just this blasted ca stuff .HELP PLEASE



1500 is not aggressive enough if your application of CA is leaving slight ripples.  You need to remove those with 220, 280, 320 or 400 grit sandpaper.  The grit you start with depends on how bad the ripples are.  

I apply thin CA first because most of the woods I use are soft and/or have voids.  The CA soaks in and stabilizes/hardens it.  The last couple I did took 5 coats of CA and it was still soaking in.  

I just place the tube between my dead center and my live center just tight enough that the live center turns.

I use thin ca applications instead of medium or thick simply because of the problem you're describing.  It takes a few more applications but on the plus side, thin dries so much quicker.  If I wait until the next day to sand/polish it, I don't need a really thick coat because the CA has cured.  The thin goes on with almost 0 ripple so I can start with 600 or 800 grit.  Win-win.

I like the suggestion of using the craft foam from Michaels.  I have about 6 sheets that I never used from tying flies.  I'll have to see how that works as an applicator.


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## mpex (Dec 21, 2012)

Update: I've got something that seems to be working (for now.)
CA: Satallite City Thin and Medium
2 coats of Thin.
7 coats of Medium.
Using a mandrel (for finishing only, all the rest is done TBC)
I only sand between coats if there are real high spots or inconsistencies.
Sand with 4-600 after all coats are on, eliminating any shine.
At this point, things are even and smooth so I don't need to be real agressive with the Micro Mesh.
Go through the Micromesh pads wet, doing each for a very short period of time.  More time is spent on the finer ones at the end.

Seems to be going real well.  Had one problem yesterday.  Cracked the blank off the bushings and a small 1mm chunk of wood and CA came off one of the ends.  I have been using the steel bushings just because I don't like all the CA that is built up at the ends when I use the Delrin.  I will probably try Delrin again after the holidays.


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## gomlin (Dec 21, 2012)

I'm still working on getting the ends to come out well, but had great looking blanks other than the ends. I sand the blanks by hand to 400 and under power at slowest speed with micromesh from 1500 to 12000. Then a couple layers of thin and 3 or 4 layers of medium with the spray in between. I had read on here about using the craft foam for application and it works WAY better than paper towels for me. I bought a big pack of it at Dollar Tree for $1. When I have a good layer of CA, I hand sand with 400 grit going longways. You will get a dusty white look with shiny spots, including the spiral application marks. You must sand till the shiny spots are gone. Then start mm from 1500-12000 again. I tried wet sanding and it was a disaster. I just polish it dry, just like the plastic blanks.

Jim


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## Ulises Victoria (Dec 21, 2012)

gomlin said:


> You must sand till the shiny spots are gone. Then start mm from 1500-12000 again. I tried wet sanding and it was a disaster. I just polish it dry, just like the plastic blanks.
> 
> Jim


When your aim is to sand until the shiny spots are gone, wet sanding is a no-no (IMO)


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## Dave Turner (Dec 21, 2012)

This thread is a very interesting read.  I see many techniques that I've tried and did not work for me, and several that I find work well.  I love to use a CA finish and rarely have any problems with it.  I think CA glue brand is important. Find one that works for you and stick with it (I use the Satellite stuff from Woodcraft). I start with one coat of thin because I think it forms a nice binder between the blank and the medium CA that I use to build up thickness. I put on about 12 coats of medium using Bounty paper towels. Tried foam and it didn't work for me. I spray with accelerator after every coat. I only use the fine spray from a can (again Satellite brand) since I had poor results from a pump spray bottle.  If I have a blank with small pits that need filling after multiple CA coats (corncobs for instance), I'll just put a drop of CA in each pit and spray with accelerator. This gives a rough surface, but is easily turned smooth with a sharp skew or scraper and light touch.  

I've found that sandpaper brand makes a big difference. I love the Norton 3X sandpaper. The grit I start with depends on how rough the surface is after applying the CA.  If real rough, I'll go with 220 (if I'm too lazy to smooth it with a skew). If relatively smooth, I'll just use 400. I agree with others here about also sanding with the grain at each stage. After that, I go to wet sanding with Micro-mesh going from the 1800 to the 3600 grit pads (equivalent to 1350 grit sandpaper). Then I give the blank a quick buff on my $35 Harbor Freight 6" buffer and it comes out like glass.  I thought I had glass before I bought the buffer. I was wrong. The buffer does a better job (and faster) than the finest grit micro-mesh and lathe applied plastic polish.


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## dplloyd (Jan 2, 2013)

Good thread!


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## mpex (Jan 2, 2013)

Got one more tip I figured out last night.  When I would get ripples, it would happen towards one end or the other of the blank.  When I would apply the CA on the blank, I would use a small piece of foam and go back and forth along the blank.  THIS CAUSED THE RIPPLES!
Solution: Use a piece of foam (or paper towel) that is a bit bigger than the blank.  Leave the foam stationary below and in contact with the blank while dripping CA on the top. I actually put the nozzle of the CA bottle on the blank while it is turning and let the CA dribble out.  (Lathe at the Slooooowesst speed, face mask on!) If you drip too much, use the edge of the foam, holding it in THE SAME position to remove the excess.


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## PenMan1 (Jan 2, 2013)

The very first thing I would try has NOTHING to do with sanding, but instead lathe speed. I find that regardless of the applicator used, the speed, viscosity or brand of CA used, it is easier for ME to get nice, even uniform coat onto the blank when the lathe is running at 250 rpms. Additionally, it is MUCH EASIER for me to keep excess CA build up off of bushings, etc at very slow speeds. YMMV.

Before I started wearing the yellow socks and singing the chant. I'd try just slowing the lathe to its slowest setting.

Respectfully submitted.


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## tumbleweed676 (Jan 2, 2013)

Another option other than ca is WTF.


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## Dave Turner (Jan 2, 2013)

I second Andy's recommendation for a slow speed while applying the CA.

Also, I never use bushings while applying CA. Sixty degree cone centers hold the blank. A little wax on the cone centers prevent any CA from sticking. The inevitable CA build-up on the ends of the blank is easily sanded off/squared using an arrangement such as this.


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