# White Spots showing up days after finishing



## Wolfeman46 (Jun 7, 2015)

Hey all!  Like the title says, I am having issues with white spots a few days after finishing, but only on two pens so far.  It hasn't shown up on any others that I can see.

I am using the StickFast CA finishing kit.  I was told yesterday by a friend that he doesn't use StickFast because it has a tendency to be too brittle.  Is this what's happening?  I tried to get a picture that shows the spots.  It's the very first layer (or at least not the top layer) that has them.


View in Gallery


View in Gallery

My finishing process currently is:

1 After sanding through 1000 (I do 220, 320, 400, 500, 800, 1000 - at low speed and then also longitudinally).

2 I'll clean it off with a rag while spinning.  Seems to work for me to get all the dust off without any stuff hanging around.

3 Next I'll do a layer of THIN CA and hit it with two quick sprays of accelerator.

4 I'll do a layer of MEDIUM CA and then hit it with accelerator also.

5 I'll repeat 4 about 3-5 times.

6 I'll use the StickFast Gloss finishing on the blank.

7 I'll let it dry for a few hours (sometimes...heh) and then assemble.



The pen shown is a walnut European style pen.  It only showed up in the past few days and it was NOT wet-sanded.  The pen was laying on a towel with about 10 other pens close to a window in a room that gets about 80-85 degrees during the day.

Is it something I'm doing wrong or should I be using a different brand?


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## edstreet (Jun 7, 2015)

The spots you see, that is moisture from inside under the coating.  Stickfast been proven time and time again to be brittle and causes the shattered glass effect.  Showing up days later is because the inside is finally drying.


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## Wolfeman46 (Jun 7, 2015)

edstreet said:


> The spots you see, that is moisture from inside under the coating.  Stickfast been proven time and time again to be brittle and causes the shattered glass effect.  Showing up days later is because the inside is finally drying.



Very unfortunate since that's all I had at the time... Hoping none of my others do that, but I would think if they haven't done it by this point I should be okay...  The walnut was the last pen I made (other than acrylic).   I recently got some Insta-Bond so I'll switch it out and if anything return the kit to Rockler since I still have a good bit left in there and then order something else (I was recommended the Insta-Bond CA Pen Finish from CSUSA).  Thanks for the reply Ed!


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## edstreet (Jun 7, 2015)

Insta-bond accelerator also contains acetone, which is very bad.  It is a low cost, cheap quality and inferior item that is used.  I have CSUSA listed in the 'mixed' category as stocking one good and one bad accelerator.


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## Wolfeman46 (Jun 7, 2015)

edstreet said:


> Insta-bond accelerator also contains acetone, which is very bad.  It is a low cost, cheap quality and inferior item that is used.  I have CSUSA listed in the 'mixed' category as stocking one good and one bad accelerator.



I actually grabbed the Hot Stuff NCF accelerator that's supposed to be here Tuesday.  Hopefully that was the good you were mentioning.


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## Lucky2 (Jun 7, 2015)

IMO, your using to much accelerator. The only time I have ever had white spots show up, was when I used more accelerator than usual. I try to only use accelerator on my first two coats of CA, after that, I let the glue dry on it's own. Yes, it takes longer to do it that way, but, it works for me and I have lots of time to spare. 
Len


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## edstreet (Jun 8, 2015)

NCF, sat city is non-acetone and in the 'good' class.  All it takes is to pull the MSDS and find out.

Accelerator that causes white spots due to excessive use agents that attract moisture.  GOOD accelerator does *NOT* exhibit this behavior.  When using the GOOD accelerators you can drizzle the CA into a cup of the liquid and it will be clear.


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## magpens (Jun 8, 2015)

Ed, where you wrote "cut" below, do you mean "cup" ?? .... Also, what does MSDS mean, and where can I find it ??



edstreet said:


> NCF, sat city is non-acetone and in the 'good' class.  All it takes is to pull the MSDS and find out.
> 
> Accelerator that causes white spots due to excessive use agents that attract moisture.  GOOD accelerator does *NOT* exhibit this behavior.  When using the GOOD accelerators you can drizzle the CA into a cut of the liquid and it will be clear.


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## edstreet (Jun 8, 2015)

Correct.  I was able to change it.  cut = cup.


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## magpens (Jun 8, 2015)

Ed, .... Also, what does MSDS mean, and where can I find it ??



edstreet said:


> NCF, sat city is non-acetone and in the 'good' class.  All it takes is to pull the MSDS and find out.
> 
> Accelerator that causes white spots due to excessive use agents that attract moisture.  GOOD accelerator does *NOT* exhibit this behavior.  When using the GOOD accelerators you can drizzle the CA into a cut of the liquid and it will be clear.


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## edstreet (Jun 8, 2015)

MSDS = Material Safety Data Sheet.

Looks like this.























The section we are interested in is here in section 2.



...








60% 1,1,1,2-Tetrafouorethane 
40% N-Hexane.

1,1,1,2-Tetrafouorethane...


> 1,1,1,2-Tetrafluoroethane, R-134a, Forane 134a, Genetron 134a, Florasol 134a, Suva 134a or HFC-134a, also known as norflurane (INN), is a haloalkane refrigerant with thermodynamic properties similar to R-12 (dichlorodifluoromethane) but with insignificant ozone depletion potential.
> 
> Other uses include plastic foam blowing, as a cleaning solvent, a propellant for the delivery of pharmaceuticals (e.g. bronchodilators), wine cork removers, gas dusters and in air driers for removing the moisture from compressed air.





As for Hexane...



> Hexane is an organic compound made of carbon and hydrogen that is most commonly isolated as a byproduct of petroleum and crude oil refinement. At room temperature it is an odorless, colorless liquid, and it has many uses in industry. It is a very popular solvent,


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## csr67 (Jun 8, 2015)

Interesting... My first thought was that you were getting moisture under the finish during wet sanding.  I had this issue on my first few pens, and it led to the same white spots in your photos.  The fix was simply dipping each end of the blank onto a paper towel saturated with some thin CA to seal up the ends.  Since I started doing this, my CA finishes came out perfect.


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## Wolfeman46 (Jun 8, 2015)

edstreet said:


> NCF, sat city is non-acetone and in the 'good' class.  All it takes is to pull the MSDS and find out.
> 
> Accelerator that causes white spots due to excessive use agents that attract moisture.  GOOD accelerator does *NOT* exhibit this behavior.  When using the GOOD accelerators you can drizzle the CA into a cup of the liquid and it will be clear.



Thank you again.  I had not even thought to check out the MSDS.  




csr67 said:


> Interesting... My first thought was that you were getting moisture under the finish during wet sanding.  I had this issue on my first few pens, and it led to the same white spots in your photos.  The fix was simply dipping each end of the blank onto a paper towel saturated with some thin CA to seal up the ends.  Since I started doing this, my CA finishes came out perfect.




I wasn't doing the ends at first until I had seen a post on here and was told how to do it.  Now I try to remember to do it each time!


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## farmer (Jun 12, 2015)

*Accelerator*



Wolfeman46 said:


> edstreet said:
> 
> 
> > NCF, sat city is non-acetone and in the 'good' class.  All it takes is to pull the MSDS and find out.
> ...


 
I don't use a accelerator when I am doing a finish ........................
I rather let it dry on its own, I have had allot better first time  attempts on putting on a CA finish if I don't use a accelerator.


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## Sylvanite (Jun 12, 2015)

That doesn't look like blush (spots from moisture) to me.  I suspect it's sanding dust trapped in the open grain.  When putting a CA finish on an open-grained wood, such as walnut, you need to fill the grain first.  That can be done using sanding sealer, with a sawdust/CA slurry, or just by building up the finish high enough that the grain is full before you begin sanding.

I hope that helps,
Eric


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## 79spitfire (Jun 13, 2015)

Sylvanite said:


> That doesn't look like blush (spots from moisture) to me.  I suspect it's sanding dust trapped in the open grain.  When putting a CA finish on an open-grained wood, such as walnut, you need to fill the grain first.  That can be done using sanding sealer, with a sawdust/CA slurry, or just by building up the finish high enough that the grain is full before you begin sanding.
> 
> I hope that helps,
> Eric


I think Eric might be onto it here, the dust sticking in the grooves may be from wiping it while the blank is turning.


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## TonyL (Jun 14, 2015)

csr67 said:


> Interesting... My first thought was that you were getting moisture under the finish during wet sanding.  I had this issue on my first few pens, and it led to the same white spots in your photos.  The fix was simply dipping each end of the blank onto a paper towel saturated with some thin CA to seal up the ends.  Since I started doing this, my CA finishes came out perfect.


 

I also practice this technique and once every 7 or 8 barrels, I will get some clouding and have to start over again. I am now blotting excess moisture from my MM, and also hitting it with another dab of thin CA before wet sanding. So I CA the ends while turning, then again, before wet sanding. I also make sure the barrel edges (90 degrees points) are CA'd. 

I don't know if it will get me to 10 of 10 "perfect", but worth a try (for me)..


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## hilltopper46 (Jun 14, 2015)

Respectfully, IMHO, you are over sanding - anything above 600 in preparation for  CA finish is overkill and it may be contributing to your problem. Personally on walnut, you can stop at 400, again IMHO.

Also, it's OK to wipe with a paper towel while the blank is spinning, but then shut the lathe off and wipe in the direction of the grain with the lathe off. Wipe until you cannot see color on a white paper towel. This works really well with walnut or other dark woods.

The above works for me, but if I have a blank that is really expensive, really porous, and I really want to make sure it is ready for the CA, I wipe it down with acetone before the first coat of CA. I don't do that very often, I usually just do the dry wipe with a white paper towel in the direction of the grain.


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## lwalper (Jun 15, 2015)

79spitfire said:


> Sylvanite said:
> 
> 
> > I think Eric might be onto it here, the dust sticking in the grooves may be from wiping it while the blank is turning.
> ...


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