# Poor man's Skogger or C1a



## Rifleman1776 (Nov 14, 2008)

As always, I fear that if I open my pocketbook, the seams will crack. So, after seeing the glowing reports of the performance of the C1a tool, I figured I could make one, or several, at much less than the C-note price of the glamor model.
I bought some spiral planer blade cutters at about $2.50 each, screws at $1.00 each and some one foot long pieces of 3/8" square cold rolled steel at less than $3.00 each. Total cost $6.50, sans handle. And that will come out of the "I can make something from this" pile of cut-offs.
As reported, it hogs wood off like crazy. Two caveats: tosses chips like crazy also. Wear eye protection. Be careful touching the cutting edges, very sharp.


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## leehljp (Nov 14, 2008)

Great idea Frank. Next time I am home, I will have to get me a set of those.

Thanks for the idea! I owe you one now!

Where did you purchase those? Locally, or HD, Lowes, order or LR?


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## wood-of-1kind (Nov 14, 2008)

Congrats Frank, that looks good. You've done well!!!


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## bitshird (Nov 14, 2008)

Frank where were you able to find the cutter blades ??


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## marcruby (Nov 14, 2008)

I found some at Toolstoday for a bit higher a price -

http://www.toolstoday.com/p-5584-14-x-14-x-2mm-4-cutting-edges.aspx

Truth is that any store that sells production metal working tools will sell a whole variety of cutters.  My problem is "Which one?"

Marc


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## stolicky (Nov 14, 2008)

Good job.  Please share.... 

Ah, another project where I can use a piece from that "I can make something from this" pile of wood.

Hey, you could probably make a few bucks if were inclined to make a few and sell them here.

Oh, for the screw hole, I assume you had a tap set to match the size and threads of the screw you purchased?


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## TribalRR (Nov 14, 2008)

stolicky said:


> Hey, you could probably make a few bucks if were inclined to make a few and sell them here.



While I appauld Frank for doing it himself, as I also prefer to make my own tools, I believe it would be bad taste to sell these here given that Peter has been...Just my opinion.


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## edman2 (Nov 14, 2008)

That's using the old bean Frank!  Congratulations. A little McGregor ball glove oil will keep that wallet from cracking!  Use it at the risk of having an empty wallet.:biggrin:


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## stolicky (Nov 14, 2008)

TribalRR said:


> While I appauld Frank for doing it himself, as I also prefer to make my own tools, I believe it would be bad taste to sell these here given that Peter has been...Just my opinion.



Good point.

I failed to fully research the history behind the tool.  I just know that there was a sizable buy for the tool a little while ago, and I guess I assumed it was a commercial item.  For example, a group but to obtain a better price on pen kits.  I also saw that is was relatively pricey.

I apologize.

I do also appreciate making my own tools, which is why I inquired about the tap.  I just also weigh my limited available time versus price point of tools.


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## Rifleman1776 (Nov 14, 2008)

Thanks all for the positive responses. I'll cover a couple questions in one post.

The cutters and screws came from Grizzly. The cutters are 14mm. They also have 15mm at about double the price. But, I figured that even the smaller size removes so much wood so freakin' fast that not much was to be gained by using the larger.
The steel was bought from a local steel supply/fabricating company. Actually almost any hunk or rod of steel could be made to work with a little grinding wheel time.
Drilling was not a problem. But, since I used cold rolled steel, very tough stuff, tapping did take time and care. I'm questioning whether hot (mild) steel might be a better choice just for ease of working with it.
I have no plans to sell. This is too simple a project and I don't believe there would be much of a market. I'm not a real handy guy, if I can do this, anyone can.


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## bitshird (Nov 14, 2008)

marcruby said:


> I found some at Toolstoday for a bit higher a price -
> 
> http://www.toolstoday.com/p-5584-14-x-14-x-2mm-4-cutting-edges.aspx
> 
> ...



Marc, most metal cutting inserts don't have enough rake to work well with wood, I have a few hundred carbide inserts for metal, I've got to find some of those cutters, I have every thing else, I did find some that were for cutting coves,  and had a lot of different radius but none that were square.


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## THarvey (Nov 14, 2008)

TribalRR said:


> While I appauld Frank for doing it himself, as I also prefer to make my own tools, I believe it would be bad taste to sell these here given that Peter has been...Just my opinion.




Frank has not offered anything for sell, so I think the assumption implied is premature.  I take Frank's post as a personal challenge to build my own.  I would like to know where he found the cutters and screws at that price.

Should Frank decide to offer these for sell, that is his perrogative.  To say that it would be in bad taste, because Petter sells something similar is like saying:  1. Wolftat should not sell money and coffee blanks, because Eugene does or  2. EddieO should not sell cartridge kits, because Sylvanite does.

I don't see anyone complaining about these similar offers.

If Frank wishes to sell these, I think he should be allowed to without issue.  I hope he and Peter both succeed in their endeavors.  (That's just my opinion.)


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## the_benz (Nov 14, 2008)

*Here is the site*

http://www.grizzly.com/products/14-x-14-x-2mm-Inserts-Carbide-10-Pack/H7319


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## stolicky (Nov 14, 2008)

Thanks for the info.

So, does Grizzly automatically include screws with the bits, or are they listed separately?  I was just looking at them and couldn't find screws listed anywhere. 

I really hate the shipping costs from Grizzly!  I mean how much would a couple of small bits and screws in an envelope really cost?  Even if its priority mail.  Wow.


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## wolftat (Nov 14, 2008)

THarvey said:


> Frank has not offered anything for sell, so I think the assumption implied is premature. I take Frank's post as a personal challenge to build my own. I would like to know where he found the cutters and screws at that price.
> 
> Should Frank decide to offer these for sell, that is his perrogative. To say that it would be in bad taste, because Petter sells something similar is like saying: 1. Wolftat should not sell money and coffee blanks, because Eugene does or 2. EddieO should not sell cartridge kits, because Sylvanite does.
> 
> ...


Thank you Tim, just for the record,I agree with you completely,  but I have received 1 nasty PM about my coffee blanks, but that is just someone looking to cause trouble.

As far as this goes, the tool that Frank has made is another design of the tool that is being offered originally by a vendor that Peter took upon himself to make a version of. This is the way things work, if the world didn't make other versions and have multiple distributors, there would be a monopoly and that would cause the price to be decided by the sole vendor and there would be no competition. I wanted to buy a skogger, but I happened to miss out on the buy so if Frank were to sell his version of this tool, I may consider purchasing one. Peter has replied to me with my understanding that he is not making anymore at this time which should mean that the door is wide open for a new supplier to move in if they want to. This is just my opinion.


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## Mudder (Nov 14, 2008)

Never In my wildest dreams did I ever think I'd be typing these words.



Frank,

I'm impressed.


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## marcruby (Nov 14, 2008)

bitshird said:


> Marc, most metal cutting inserts don't have enough rake to work well with wood.



If I understood what rake was the would probably be great advice.  When I get home I'm going to look in a catalog and see if they specify rake.  If they do, what would be the number to look for?  I also remember that they had any number of things for holding the inserts that would fit in one of my handles.  

Of course, I will probably spend $125 trying to avoid spending $100, but I love that glorious feeling of figuring things out for myself.

Marc


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## Rifleman1776 (Nov 14, 2008)

marcruby said:


> If I understood what rake was the would probably be great advice.  When I get home I'm going to look in a catalog and see if they specify rake.  If they do, what would be the number to look for?  I also remember that they had any number of things for holding the inserts that would fit in one of my handles.
> 
> Of course, I will probably spend $125 trying to avoid spending $100, but I love that glorious feeling of figuring things out for myself.
> 
> Marc



I really don't know what bitshird is talking about. These cutters are designed for wood. My own use of the tool I made from them demonstrates they cut/remove wood like crazy. If it works, it works and I can tell you, it works.
Later, I will be trying to fit one into my Don Pencil hollowing tool handles. Might require a few minutes grinding time. But, (I repeat myself) if it works, it works.


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## Rifleman1776 (Nov 14, 2008)

Mudder said:


> Never In my wildest dreams did I ever think I'd be typing these words.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks. It is simple. I can handle simple. ;-)


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## Rifleman1776 (Nov 14, 2008)

stolicky said:


> Thanks for the info.
> 
> So, does Grizzly automatically include screws with the bits, or are they listed separately?  I was just looking at them and couldn't find screws listed anywhere.
> 
> I really hate the shipping costs from Grizzly!  I mean how much would a couple of small bits and screws in an envelope really cost?  Even if its priority mail.  Wow.



Good question. The screws are a part, not a retail item. They must be ordered separately as a replacement part for one of the big planers that use the spiral cutters. I believe almost any flat head screw would work though. The simple and cheap part can require a little ingenuity and experimenting.
I have a leg up on the shipping problem. We get to Springfield, Missouri fairly frequently since my son and his family live nearby. I pick up what I need on those trips.


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## Rifleman1776 (Nov 14, 2008)

THarvey said:


> Frank has not offered anything for sell, so I think the assumption implied is premature.  I take Frank's post as a personal challenge to build my own.  I would like to know where he found the cutters and screws at that price.
> 
> Should Frank decide to offer these for sell, that is his perrogative.  To say that it would be in bad taste, because Petter sells something similar is like saying:  1. Wolftat should not sell money and coffee blanks, because Eugene does or  2. EddieO should not sell cartridge kits, because Sylvanite does.
> 
> ...



Thanks, Tim. For the record, I repeat, I do not intend to sell these. I offered as an idea for a (very) simple and inexpensive home project.
If I were to offer something for sale, it would be posted in the appropriate forum and I would not have revealed my costs.


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## TribalRR (Nov 14, 2008)

Tharvey, you are correct that Frank never offered to sell these. It was just suggested to him, by someone and I threw my $.02 in... I thought that Peter come up with the idea for this tool, if that is not the case I might feel differently. I didn't mean to open up the intellectual property arguement here, but I think there is such a thing. While I do like to mimic ideas, I would like to think that I would never do so for financial gain. Again, just my ideals.

Sorry this is taking away from your post.


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## titan2 (Nov 14, 2008)

Rifleman1776 said:


> Thanks all for the positive responses. I'll cover a couple questions in one post.
> 
> The cutters and screws came from Grizzly. The cutters are 14mm. They also have 15mm at about double the price. But, I figured that even the smaller size removes so much wood so freakin' fast that not much was to be gained by using the larger.
> The steel was bought from a local steel supply/fabricating company. Actually almost any hunk or rod of steel could be made to work with a little grinding wheel time.
> ...


 
Do you by chance......have the Grizzly part number for the cutter and screws that you purchased? Been looking for awhile on their site and all I can come up with is the H7354 Shelix Replacement Tips, 10pk @ $29.95. Do they list/have other sizes and/or shapes? No mention of size (14 or 15mm) on the tips I did find or location of the screws you used.

THANKS......


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## Daniel (Nov 14, 2008)

On the screw issue I think you are seriously wrong when you say any flat head screw will work. I would not use just any screw off the hardware store shelf either. it needs to be a tough screw since it is small so that it does not just shear off. having gotten a planer blade screw landed you in the right quality of hardware since it is serving pretty much the same job. I just got this vision of a carbide cutter leaving the tool as someone is turning. could get ugly. anyway stay with the premium grade screws.
as for rake. that is the angle of the cutting tip. metal cutting tools do not have much if any rake because this creates a stronger edge that will stay sharp longer. some metal cutting tools actually have a negative rake, think o a hacksaw blade compaired to a wood cutting handsaw blade. the handsaws tooth actually leans forward in to the cut. the angle that the tooth is leaning forward is the rake. on the hacksaw blade the tooht actually leans backward. this is negative rake. wood cutting tools have more rake so that they can bite deeper and the tool effectively has a sharper edge requiring less force to get it to cut. knowing this when you select an insert will make a difference in how a tool performs. If you really wanted to go all out your could actually find a cutter that works best for acrylics and one that works best for wood etc. of course you might have a lot of spare inserts laying around the shop that way. I'll see if I can get some pictures of cutting bits I have ground later to show the different parts of a cutting edge and how they effect a tools ability to do the job.


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## helgi (Nov 14, 2008)

For all those turners that are thinking of making this tool, I phoned Grizzly and they do not ship to CANADA so again we here in the frozen north are looking from the outside in.
Helgi, in Saskatchewan.


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## smitty (Nov 14, 2008)

Nice job Frank.  I was planning on doing the same thing just didn't know what I would do with all 10 carbide inserts.  Let me know if you would like to sell a few inserts and screws.


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## marcruby (Nov 14, 2008)

Rifleman1776 said:


> If it works, it works and I can tell you, it works.



I believe you.  It's your success that has me thinking how I might make my own.

You have to understand that my only metalworking tool is a grinder and a couple of files.  What I want to do is go down the street to the production tool supply place and buy what I need to assemble it with a screw driver and then stick it in one of the handles I have around.

Marc


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## Rifleman1776 (Nov 14, 2008)

titan2 said:


> Do you by chance......have the Grizzly part number for the cutter and screws that you purchased? Been looking for awhile on their site and all I can come up with is the H7354 Shelix Replacement Tips, 10pk @ $29.95. Do they list/have other sizes and/or shapes? No mention of size (14 or 15mm) on the tips I did find or location of the screws you used.
> 
> THANKS......



The tips I bought are: H7319  @ $24.95
The screws are: PFH35M  flat hd torx R20 M6-1 x 15  @ $1.00 ea.

This info from my receipt.


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## Rifleman1776 (Nov 14, 2008)

Daniel said:


> On the screw issue I think you are seriously wrong when you say any flat head screw will work. I would not use just any screw off the hardware store shelf either. it needs to be a tough screw since it is small so that it does not just shear off. having gotten a planer blade screw landed you in the right quality of hardware since it is serving pretty much the same job. I just got this vision of a carbide cutter leaving the tool as someone is turning. could get ugly. anyway stay with the premium grade screws.
> as for rake. that is the angle of the cutting tip. metal cutting tools do not have much if any rake because this creates a stronger edge that will stay sharp longer. some metal cutting tools actually have a negative rake, think o a hacksaw blade compaired to a wood cutting handsaw blade. the handsaws tooth actually leans forward in to the cut. the angle that the tooth is leaning forward is the rake. on the hacksaw blade the tooht actually leans backward. this is negative rake. wood cutting tools have more rake so that they can bite deeper and the tool effectively has a sharper edge requiring less force to get it to cut. knowing this when you select an insert will make a difference in how a tool performs. If you really wanted to go all out your could actually find a cutter that works best for acrylics and one that works best for wood etc. of course you might have a lot of spare inserts laying around the shop that way. I'll see if I can get some pictures of cutting bits I have ground later to show the different parts of a cutting edge and how they effect a tools ability to do the job.




Thanks, Daniel about the screw info. Wadda I know?


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## Rifleman1776 (Nov 14, 2008)

marcruby said:


> I believe you.  It's your success that has me thinking how I might make my own.
> 
> You have to understand that my only metalworking tool is a grinder and a couple of files.  What I want to do is go down the street to the production tool supply place and buy what I need to assemble it with a screw driver and then stick it in one of the handles I have around.
> 
> Marc



Those are exactly the same metalworking tools I have. Except plus a vice. Like I said, it is a simple project.


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## Rifleman1776 (Nov 14, 2008)

smitty said:


> Nice job Frank.  I was planning on doing the same thing just didn't know what I would do with all 10 carbide inserts.  Let me know if you would like to sell a few inserts and screws.



I plan to give away several of these tools and keep a couple extra cutters for my own future needs. They stay sharp a long time but the experts will tell you that sand will dull anything. I turn a fair amount of Osage Orange and that has a high silica content. That's just a fancy word for sand. They can be sharpened but the experts say it isn't worth the effort.


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## Gary Max (Nov 14, 2008)

Heck I have been using these for the last 6 months---a freind made them for me ---all I supplied was the cutters---the long one is for bowls and the short for pens---notice the high tech plastic tube handle on the long one---that came from BORG---cost for building both of these---less than $20.00


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## Woodlvr (Nov 14, 2008)

Nice job Frank.  

Gary I am guessing that they both have different degree of cutters on them?


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## johnnycnc (Nov 14, 2008)

Frank, good idea; I'll have to try this myself!!:biggrin:


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## Gary Max (Nov 14, 2008)

Mike they are the same----nothing high tech or fancy here. I just bought a couple cutters and asked a friend to mill and tap for me.


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## smitty (Nov 14, 2008)

Thanks Frank
I'll just buy the 10 inserts and do like you give a few to friends.


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## bitshird (Nov 14, 2008)

marcruby said:


> If I understood what rake was the would probably be great advice.  When I get home I'm going to look in a catalog and see if they specify rake.  If they do, what would be the number to look for?  I also remember that they had any number of things for holding the inserts that would fit in one of my handles.
> 
> Of course, I will probably spend $125 trying to avoid spending $100, but I love that glorious feeling of figuring things out for myself.
> 
> Marc



Marc and Frank, someone had suggested metal cutting inserts, the relief or the cutting edge on them is usually around 7 degrees at least on the single sided inserts, most of the double sided ones have no relief, that comes from the index tool holder which means not a lot of angle to the cutting edge. 
 On the planer blades looks like it's somewhere around 30 degrees  which would make them sharper,


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## wood-of-1kind (Nov 14, 2008)

bitshird said:


> On the planer blades looks like it's somewhere around 30 degrees  which would make them sharper,




BINGO, we have a winner.


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## Rifleman1776 (Nov 14, 2008)

Gary Max said:


> Heck I have been using these for the last 6 months---a freind made them for me ---all I supplied was the cutters---the long one is for bowls and the short for pens---notice the high tech plastic tube handle on the long one---that came from BORG---cost for building both of these---less than $20.00





Way to go. I never claimed to be original. Just cheap.


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## Gary Max (Nov 14, 2008)

Heck Frank--- in my case it's just a matter of being poor. I can't find the link but there was a place you could buy the cutter cheap--- If I find it I will post the link. I bought them as router replacement cutters?????


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## leehljp (Nov 14, 2008)

I ordered a set deliverable to my USA address. Thanks Frank. I couldn't get the site to bring up the screws, but in looking at the number M6, I know I can get that here and probably have that in a torx head in my shop screw bin. If not, I know where I can get them. I have both metric and imperial tap and die sets.

Thanks again.

Hank


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## THarvey (Nov 17, 2008)

On a similar thought...

Does anyone know where to find round cutters for similar applications?

Thanks.


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## scotian12 (Nov 19, 2008)

*Poor mans Skogger*

Does the bar stock have to be square or can you use round stock?  Darrell eisner


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## Rifleman1776 (Nov 19, 2008)

THarvey said:


> On a similar thought...
> 
> Does anyone know where to find round cutters for similar applications?
> 
> Thanks.



Wish I knew. Let us know if you find a source.


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## Rifleman1776 (Nov 19, 2008)

scotian12 said:


> Does the bar stock have to be square or can you use round stock?  Darrell eisner



Does not have to be square. But users of the high priced variety report that the square sits steadier on the tool rest. Makes sense, that's why I went with square.
At the very low cost of making one of these tools, it might be worth your while to experiment with whatever you want.


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## scotian12 (Nov 19, 2008)

Frank...is the tool just for roughing out the pen blank or can you use it to finish the blank. Also is the tool used as a scraper or can it be turned on its side and used as a skew?   Thanks   Darrell Eisner


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## Daniel (Nov 19, 2008)

Just a little word of warning. not all metals are created equal. and most of the metals you can get off the shelf at home Depot  are not the best. as an example on the metal turning forums I have read most members would agree to not even bother with them for turning etc. I know from personal experience that they do not weld well or at least as I would expect from other metals I have welded. Regardless I just want to mention that not just any piece of metal is necessarily safe. These tools are taking a lot of stress. One thing I thought of when thinking about this is the Pen Mill cutter heads I ordered that where not threaded correctly. one member tried to tap out the hole in that metal and broke his tap. Taps are made from hardened tool steel and it broke on whatever the cutter head is made out of. I am not trying to discourage anyone but I don't want to see anyone get hurt either. A little homework with a local metal supplier might be worth the few minutes it would take to get.


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## RHossack (Nov 19, 2008)

Rifleman1776 said:


> At the very low cost of making one of these tools, it might be worth your while to experiment with whatever you want.


Frank, how are you mounting the square stock in your handle, turning it round?  A pic would be nice.

Went to our local recycling yard and got a 3' 4" piece of the 3/8" square for $2 and picked up 1 x 30" of 2024 T6 for $3 to make some handles.


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## Rifleman1776 (Nov 20, 2008)

scotian12 said:


> Frank...is the tool just for roughing out the pen blank or can you use it to finish the blank. Also is the tool used as a scraper or can it be turned on its side and used as a skew?   Thanks   Darrell Eisner



Roughing only, does not leave a smooth finish. Not fussy as to angle of attack. Do what works. Only caveat is that with the square cutter, don't let the side catch on the wood or it will twist in your hand.


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## Rifleman1776 (Nov 20, 2008)

RHossack said:


> Frank, how are you mounting the square stock in your handle, turning it round?  A pic would be nice.
> 
> Went to our local recycling yard and got a 3' 4" piece of the 3/8" square for $2 and picked up 1 x 30" of 2024 T6 for $3 to make some handles.



Since you asked, I did spend a few minutes on the grinder rounding the square stock prior to pounding it into the hole in the handle. This handle is made from a hunk of scrap figured hard maple. The ferrule is a copper coupling I bought and added almost $1.00 to the total cost of the tool.  BTW, the overall length is 20". The steel shaft is 9" exposed. This might be a little too long for some folks taste but I believe it will make this a very versatile tool. You don't like, get out hacksaw.
Good for you finding that steel stock. Scroungers rule.
Daniel, thanks, again, for the good tip on the steel. Even though I wasn't thinking along those lines, the place I buy my steel sells to guys who will be welding. I used to buy there when I needed to repair or fabricate stuff for my farm equipment.


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## Rifleman1776 (Nov 20, 2008)

Oops. Forgot to post photo with last post.


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## Woodlvr (Nov 20, 2008)

On the subject of round cutters, this one from CSUSA is the only one that I remember seeing. I am not sure if it would work or not and they do not show replacement cutters for this tool.

http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/store/Turning_Tools___Hollowing_Tools___Eliminator_Tools?Args=


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## Daniel (Nov 20, 2008)

I have been getting a lot of questions about these sort of tools and if they leave a smooth finish etc. I can get a very smooth finish with the Skogger, but it is not the easiest or fastest tool to do this. The way I look at it I can wear out the edge on my turning tool just getting the blank turned down to close to bushing size, or I can use a tool like one of these to take the majority of that punishment. Saving my precious razor edge on my turning tools to do the the clean up work. These tools are ment to be "Roughing" tools. so keep that in mind when you consider how well they are working. Personally I like to sharpen my tools before I satrt a pen, but usually have two gouges. one that will get the lions share of the wood whittled down. I then switch to the second gouge that has a nice fresh edge to get nice clean cuts to finish the pen. The skogger now replaces that first gouge and I never have to sharpen it. the gouge and skew will still finish my pens.


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## low_48 (Nov 21, 2008)

On the back page of the last Woodshop News they showed new Amana router bits with replaceable carbides. An insert for a 1/4" radius core box router bit (part number for insert is RCK-266) is $7.99 each. http://www.toolstoday.com/p-5892-rck-266-replacement-knife-for-rc-45910.aspx
A square replacement for a 45 degree v groove bit (replacement carbide part number is AMA-12)is $3.08 each. http://www.toolstoday.com/p-5582-12-x-12-x-15mm-4-cutting-edges-ama-12hma-12.aspx

The carbides are only 1.5mm thick, but I like the price.


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## ldb2000 (Nov 21, 2008)

Woodlvr said:


> On the subject of round cutters, this one from CSUSA is the only one that I remember seeing. I am not sure if it would work or not and they do not show replacement cutters for this tool.
> 
> http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/store/Turning_Tools___Hollowing_Tools___Eliminator_Tools?Args=


 
These are the replacement cutters (bottom of the page) , they are for the Hunter hollowing tools . There several sizes .

http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/s...er_Carbide_Hollowing_Tools___hunter_tool?Args=


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## Woodlvr (Nov 21, 2008)

Thanks Butch. I must have been browsing with my eyes closed.


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## Rifleman1776 (Nov 21, 2008)

Those replacement cutter prices are very high. For comparison, I just looked at a set of about a dozen Torx wrenches for under $5.00. CS wants $6.99 for one. Pays to shop around.


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## shawn394 (Nov 22, 2008)

Not trying to market for anyone just a link to look at another version.  My wife got me a set a couple of years ago for Christmas.  Several different cutter designs. http://www.thingswestern.com/3.html


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## Rifleman1776 (Nov 22, 2008)

shawn394 said:


> Not trying to market for anyone just a link to look at another version.  My wife got me a set a couple of years ago for Christmas.  Several different cutter designs. http://www.thingswestern.com/3.html



Interesting stuff there. Thanks for posting.


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## fernhills (Nov 22, 2008)

I have three tools like that, they are called ENDURO they were from Sweden. I have a round one that i use a lot to hollow bowls. I have a Square one that i don`t use much. and a diamond shape parting tool, they don`t get dull at least the round one anyway. I bought them in the early 90s when i didn`t even have a lathe i was just thinking of getting into turning.  I`ll post a pic of them when i get my camera out again. I would like to know about them.  They didn`t cost a lot, it was at the end of one of those woodworking shows and the vendor wanted to sell something quick. I got them for $36.


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## RHossack (Nov 23, 2008)

Has anyone found a source for the round carbide cutters?


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## Daniel (Nov 23, 2008)

The only ones I have seen so far are these 
http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/s...er_Carbide_Hollowing_Tools___hunter_tool?Args
At 23 to 24 dollars each.


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## THarvey (Nov 23, 2008)

Daniel said:


> The only ones I have seen so far are these
> http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/s...er_Carbide_Hollowing_Tools___hunter_tool?Args
> At 23 to 24 dollars each.



Rockler has the same cutter on their website for $19.


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## hughbie (Nov 26, 2008)

frank, you have made exactly what i had been thinkin of.  you can get a multitude of cutter designs....but for some darn reason...it never crossed my mind to use standard 3/8 bar....
it removes wood quickly and smoothly?  at least down to where you can finish turn with a skew?


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## hughbie (Nov 26, 2008)

just wanted everyone to know.....you can get cutters of all shapes and sizes through grizzly, McMaster-Carr, MSC, Grainger.  take a look at their websites and see.  one of these companies has got to ship to Canada


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## Rifleman1776 (Nov 26, 2008)

RHossack said:


> Has anyone found a source for the round carbide cutters?



I haven't at a price similar to the square. There are those much higher. But, I'm looking for "poor man's" prices.


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## Rifleman1776 (Nov 26, 2008)

hughbie said:


> just wanted everyone to know.....you can get cutters of all shapes and sizes through grizzly, McMaster-Carr, MSC, Grainger.  take a look at their websites and see.  one of these companies has got to ship to Canada



Round from Grizzly? I musta missed them. Will look again.


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## hughbie (Nov 26, 2008)

mcmaster-carr - page 2466, you'll find all kinds of cutters....they callthe carbide inserts..


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## hughbie (Nov 26, 2008)

frank...i stand corrected...i couldn't find them on grizzly either...sorry


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## dogcatcher (Nov 26, 2008)

You will find the round cutters at carbidedepot.com  Look for RCGT inserts by Kennacut.

Marvin


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## Rifleman1776 (Nov 27, 2008)

Thanks all. I'll check them out after the turkey has been digested.


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## bitshird (Nov 27, 2008)

dogcatcher said:


> You will find the round cutters at carbidedepot.com  Look for RCGT inserts by Kennacut.
> 
> Marvin


I don't think the Kennametal inserts will work for woods, the most relief any have is 7 degrees, and to efficiently cut wood you really need to think in the area of 20 to 30 degree relief angle. look for some carbide inserts for routers, I found some round ones , at least the face was round but they were pretty pricey about 12.00 as I remember.


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## dogcatcher (Nov 27, 2008)

At 20 to 30 degrees I think you might be looking at custom made.  I found some 15 degrees but nothing more than that and they were in the $13 to $15 range.  I think I will stick with my Things Western ready made carbide chisels for less than $50.


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## RHossack (Nov 27, 2008)

dogcatcher said:


> You will find the round cutters at carbidedepot.com  Look for RCGT inserts by Kennacut.


Marvin, what I did find there are these generic on sale.

At $2 a piece for round looks good to me.

(I put the wrong link in there, here's corrected link)

http://www.carbidedepot.com/SearchResult.aspx

However, I can't figure out the OD ... no pics.

I need someone smarter than a fifth grader to tell me what sizes these are.


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## cozee (Nov 28, 2008)

RHossack said:


> Marvin, what I did find there are these generic on sale.
> 
> At $2 a piece for round looks good to me.
> 
> ...




Thanks for the site link!!!



You can go into the Milling Cutters section and look at the specs for specific round insert cutters, you'll find the insert specs. They range anywhere from .275 to .630 for the RDMT-61 & RDMW 15 degree cutters.

SCROLL DOWN TO MID PAGE

Or if you select _Inserts_ from the index on the left of the pages it opens a page of insert shapes. Select round then choose the profile you want. Once it opens you'll find a list of available inserts. Select one and a page opens showing the different sizes available.

LIKE HERE


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## dogcatcher (Nov 28, 2008)

Here is a link that tells how to figure the sizes, rakes etc.
http://www.pgstools.com/servlet/the-template/CarbideInsertIdentification/Page

Marvin


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## RHossack (Nov 28, 2008)

dogcatcher said:


> Here is a link that tells how to figure the sizes, rakes etc.
> http://www.pgstools.com/servlet/the-template/CarbideInsertIdentification/Page


Thanks Marvin ... I'm pretty dense and my tunnel vision is interfering with what is in front of me.

I have some 3/8 square to use and I harvested some shafts from old shocks to use also.

Looking at the sale inserts I cant's figure out the OD's.

Here is a list of the available inserts for $2.00 - $2.80

RCMT1003M0 C2
RCMT1003M0 C5
RCMT1003M0 C6-GOLD

The "T" is the 4th character and is supposed to designate the type except I don't see a "T" on the list.  I'm looking for counter sunk but not necessary.

The 5th character is the is the size.  If I understand this means the "1" equates to 3\8" and "0" equates the thickness of 1/4"?








R=round
C=7°
M=


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## dogcatcher (Nov 28, 2008)

Here is the code numbers for one that I was recommended.  I never tried it
RCGT 10T3 MOPH  I think it is a Kennametal K313, 10mm diameter. 

Here is my choice for the money.  http://www.thingswestern.com/3.html  At $43 a piece they are ready to go, the shaft is about 5/8" diameter and solid steel.  I have the round, square and the triangle versions, all in the larger size.


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## cozee (Nov 28, 2008)

RHossack said:


> The 5th character is the is the size.  If I understand this means the "1" equates to 3\8" and "0" equates the thickness of 1/4"?




  I don't think a "1" in the 5th character placement is 3/8" when compare to other cutters and their sizes. Here are others in comparison . . . 







Here are some templates of various cutters. I only assume they are actual size . . . 






Photos are from carbidedepot.com


Why not just email Carbide Depot and ask them what the diameters are?????


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## cozee (Nov 28, 2008)

dogcatcher said:


> Here is my choice for the money.  http://www.thingswestern.com/3.html  At $43 a piece they are ready to go, the shaft is about 5/8" diameter and solid steel.  I have the round, square and the triangle versions, all in the larger size.



Those are a bargin when you consider labor. Even their biggest is only $53.00!! And the ones for pen turners are only $37.00 a piece (round and square cutters) with shipping at $7.00 no matter how many you buy! Do you know if they offer replacement cutters as I couldn't find a listing for them?

My Christmas list just got added to and reorganized!!


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