# I am joining the CNC world!  My CNC router build



## MesquiteMan

I have decided to bite the bullet and get a CNC router to help increase production on the vacuum chambers I build and reduce my lead times.  Needing a 4'x4' cutting area, I started looking at my options and just could not justify $13,000 for a ready made, plug and play machine.  After researching the topic thoroughly, I decided to buy a kit from CNCrouterparts.com.  When it is all said and done, I will have about $6k in the machine including a $600 copy of Vectric VCarve Pro CAM software and $150 for Mach3 machine control software.

It is common on CNC forums to post a "build" thread so I have one at Sawmill Creek and at CNC Zone and thought it may be something my IAP friends might find interesting.  This will be basically a copy and paste from Sawmill Creek.

 I have ordered and am assembling a CNC Router Parts CRP4848 machine.  I  decided to build my own base out of wood instead of using their steel  legs since I wanted more weight and read that a lot of folks prefer wood  for its dampening abilities.  Being that I was a custom home builder  for 18 years, I have a lot of experience with LVL (laminate veneer  lumber) and know how strong and stable it is so I choose that for my  material.  I started with 1.75" x 14" LVLs and jointed and planed them  to get them straight and smooth.  I then ripped them in half, roughly  6.75" once dressed.  The legs are 3 pieces glued up to make a roughly  5"x5".

Anyway, here are some pics of my progress thus far:

Day one:

LVL leg glue up




A pile of legs ready to go



Base frame glued, nailed, and squared up



Legs installed and another set of LVL's inside.  I know I do not need  them for strength since LVLs are plenty strong but I wanted them to lock  in the legs and provide extra weight.  The clamp goes to some waste  block I screws on to the outside to precisely true it up square.  By  tightening or loosening the clamp just a little, I can change the  squareness.



Results at the end of day 1


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## MesquiteMan

Here are the pics from day 2.  I went to Lowes to try to find leg  levelers but they only had cheap ones for furniture so I decided to make  my own.

To make the levelers, I cut some 1.5" x 1/8" steel flat bar about 3"   long.  I then drilled a 1/2" hole in the center and 4 holes on the   outside.  I then welded a 1/2" bolt to the back side.  Don't laugh at my   welding!  It is strong but not pretty!  It is hidden in the leg  anyway.



For the leg itself, I used a 1/2" x 1.5" bolt and welded a large washer to it.



I wanted to make sure the washer was 90° to the bolt itself.  I don't   have a metal lathe so I chucked them in my drill press and used a piece   of MDF with some 120 grit sandpaper glued on and used that to face the   washer.  I then glued on some rubber washers I found at Lowes onto the   nut to provide some vibration dampening and anti-skid.  The extra nut  it  to be able to lock it in place once adjusted.



All of this got painted to prevent rust.  I then drilled a 1 1/4" hole   about 3/4" in deep in the legs with a forstner bit to provide clearance   for the nut and my sloppy welding!  I then drilled a 5/8" diameter hole   an additional 1.5" deep to provide clearance for the bolt shaft when   fully inserted.  After all the drilling was done, it was simply attach   the levelers with some 1 1/4" truss head screws.



After the levelers were in, I ran some bottom "joists" for the bottom   shelf while I still had it upside down.  I started with 2x6's and after   planing and jointing to get them straight, they ended up being 1 5/8" x   4" so not much more than a 2x4!  If I had started with a 2x4 though, I   would have ended up smaller than I wanted.



After gluing and screwing all the joists in place, I cheated and used my   electric hoist I concocted a few years ago to flip it back over.  That   thing has come in real handy on many occasions!



After flipping and moving back to close to where the machine will go, I   leveled it all up (did I say how well my homemade levelers worked (
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




),   I installed some 3/4" BC plywood with glue and 2" finish nails for the   bottom shelf.  At this point, it was close to 2 am so I knocked off  for  the night!



Thanks for looking and sorry if there was too much boring detail!


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## Charlie_W

Wow! Go for it Curtis! 
The base is looking good already. Keep us posted.


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## MesquiteMan

I am sure you guys are getting bored with base pics but I am going to   give them to you anyway!  I installed the "joists", the MDF top,   and the plywood skin to the top section.  I believe I am going to wait   on the lower skin until after I decide how I am going to use the space   underneath.  That will be easier once I have my machine and know what I   am dealing with as far as electronics, etc.  I plan to put the   controller and other electronics underneath and may even put the   computer box there.  Not having any idea what the heck I am doing   without parts, I think it will be prudent to wait and see how big of   doors or drawers I need to build.  I plan to paint the top and skin   tomorrow and get ready to start the machine build, hopefully this  weekend!

Anyway, here are the progress pics from Thursday night.

Here it is after I installed the joists.  I used pocket screws on each   end with glue.  These are also LVLs.  They look funny because I planed   them down to get them nice and even and straight.  In some cases, I   planed through the outer veneer and the black areas are the glue layers.



Here it is with the MDF installed.  I ran a generous bead of Titebond2   along each framing member and the nailed it ever 6" or so with 2" finish   nails.  I was going to use screws but decided nailing would be easier.    Besides, I just had to keep it in place until the glue dried since  glue  is stronger than the wood itself anyway!  It is perfectly square   verified by measuring the diagonals.



And here are a couple of shots after I put the skin on the top band.  I   used 1/2" plywood and plenty of Titebond 2.  I ripped the ply about  1/6"  oversize and flushed it to the bottom.  I nailed it all on with 1  3/8"  23 gauge pin nails.  Again, all it has to do is hold it there  until the  glue dries.  After it was nailed up, I used a flush trim bit  in my trim  router to trim the top of the ply perfectly flush with the  MDF.





Again, thanks for looking!


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## lyonsacc

Curtis,

Always neat to see what you are creating.

Personal favorite so far is belt sander from a treadmill!

Dave


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## MesquiteMan

Friday afternoon I had a couple of college kids helping me clean out a spot in the shop for the machine and get ready for the assembly.  The spot where I am putting it is where I was storing a few thousand pounds of different burls and logs I have harvested so all of that had to get moved and re-stacked!  Then of course everything had to be swept and vacuumed.  That was quite a undertaking itself but thankfully, I had 2 strong guys and did not have to lift a finger!

The base was moved into place and leveled up and ready to go.  The UPS truck showed up at his normal time of 5:20 or so and we unloaded the parts.  Man, were some of them heavy!  Here is $4,000 worth of parts ready to unpack and start assembly!  Kinda shocking, actually, that these few boxes cost $4k and will be used to make a precision robot!



Last night I worked on unpacking the parts and getting them spread out, ready to build.  Today I will be spending the day putting stuff together!


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## skiprat

Very impressive and sturdy looking base. I reckon at the speed you are progressing, you'll be in full CNC production by this time tomorrow!!! 

I would have thought that it might be a bit taller so you could get a more user friendly storage area underneath. What made you chose that table height?


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## Ed McDonnell

Congratulations on the new baby!  Have you started thinking about dust / noise control yet?

Ed


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## cnccutter

go Curtis go

once your up and running you'll find your self doing all sorts of thing you cant imagine right now. when I got mine I only had a few things in mind for it, now I'm booked out 6 weeks doing small custom stuff the big shops don't want to do. the learning curve will come when the router bit hits the  table :biggrin:

I cant image not having cnc capability's to add to my hand skills.

Erik


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## MesquiteMan

Skiprat,  I thought about going taller but I looked at the spoilboard height of a number of different commercial CNC routers and made it so mine will finish at the same height.  I work mostly with 4'x4' acrylic sheets and a 4x4 piece of 1/2 acrylic weighs a LOT!  The top of my spoilboard will be proximately 34" off the floor when complete and I figured that is high enough to have to wrangle a piece of heavy material onto by myself!


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## Gregf

I've watched a few build threads. Always fun to watch things progress. Make a video of the startup and initial tests.
I've been tempted to make a desktop sized unit. Still convincing myself I need one.


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## skiprat

Ah !! 34 inches is good. It guess it just doesn't look as tall as that because it's such a big and chunky size.


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## MesquiteMan

parklandturner said:


> Congratulations on the new baby!  Have you started thinking about dust / noise control yet?
> 
> Ed



Yes, I already have that planned!  I am looking for a used HF type DC.  All I want is the blower and motor and will be venting outside.  I plan to build a "shed" outside that the dust and chips will blow in to.  I plan to build it wide enough that I can open some doors and use my bobcat to remove the chips when ready!  I don't want to mess with bags and such.

I have a Clearvue Cyclone for the main shop area but don't want to run it over to this machine.  My shop is a 40x75' metal building.  25x40 on one end is walled off an air conditioned for my main wood shop.  The router is going in the other part of the shop so noise will not be a problem since I will have an insulated wall between where I work most and the machine.


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## MesquiteMan

Gregf said:


> I've watched a few build threads. Always fun to watch things progress. Make a video of the startup and initial tests.
> I've been tempted to make a desktop sized unit. Still convincing myself I need one.



I think you need one, is that enough to convince you!?


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## RichB

Fantastic Curtis.  I am sure you can,t wait to get started.


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## MesquiteMan

skiprat said:


> Ah !! 34 inches is good. It guess it just doesn't look as tall as that because it's such a big and chunky size.



The table itself is currently 29.25" to the top.  The aluminum extrusions for the cross members are 4" tall which brings it to 33.25".  Then I will add a 3/4" MDF spoilboard to that to bring the finished spoilboard height to 34".  The top band of my base is 7.25" which makes it look short!


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## MesquiteMan

Here is the basic machine I am building:






It is this kit with some upgrades to the rack and pinion system

CRP4848 4' x 4' CNC Router Kit | CNCRouterParts


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## GaryMGg

Never get bored with a good build thread.
Congratulations. Can I admit I'm jealous. :biggrin: :wink:


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## Haynie

The best part of this thread is the fact that your business is doing well enough to justify the new toy.  

I have been considering one for some of my metal work.  What I want to do is far too detailed for me to do with just my hand.


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## longbeard

Hey Curtis, how many nails did you bend trying to drive them in that stuff?
Hard as a rock and strong enough to drive a tank on. I know, where i work, we make it.
I use drywall screws when i use it.
Congrats on the new toy. Thanks for sharing.


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## JerrySambrook

Curtis,
  If you run into programming glitches, please feel free to call. I will give you the best I can over the phone.


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## ironman123

*I am joining the CNC world! My CNC router build*

Congradulations Curtis.  This will really speed up your production time on the Acrylic cutting.  Mach3 and Mach2 are great programs to use and I know Vectric is very reputable.

Once you get every thing set up, installed and tweaked and the proper G-code running, just watch it do it's magic.  Then you might get mad because you waited so long to do it.

Maybe this will make my chamber parts.:biggrin::biggrin:

Good going Curtis.

Ray


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## Curly

MesquiteMan said:


> Skiprat, I work mostly with 4'x4' acrylic sheets and a 4x4 piece of 1/2 acrylic weighs a LOT!  ......... I figured that is high enough to have to wrangle a piece of heavy material onto by myself!



A vacuum lifter and your little electric crane will do the work perfectly and save your back. Basically a big suction cup on a hook. :biggrin: You of all here should be able  to rig one up. :wink: For some ideas check out Anver.


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## BRobbins629

Looking great Curtis.  They are a lot of fun and one of the few tools that you can make parts and take a nap at the same time.


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## MesquiteMan

Curly said:


> MesquiteMan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Skiprat, I work mostly with 4'x4' acrylic sheets and a 4x4 piece of 1/2 acrylic weighs a LOT!  ......... I figured that is high enough to have to wrangle a piece of heavy material onto by myself!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A vacuum lifter and your little electric crane will do the work perfectly and save your back. Basically a big suction cup on a hook. :biggrin: You of all here should be able  to rig one up. :wink: For some ideas check out Anver.
Click to expand...


Great idea....but, my "crane" is at the other end of the shop and is fixed in place.  It is not in a good location for putting the CNC machine.  I put it down by the main drive in overhead door to make it easy to load and unload things from the truck such as large burls 

A 4x4 sheet of 1/2" is not too bad.  It only weighs 46.5 pounds but is bulky and hard to handle.  My acrylic supplier will cut a 4x8 sheet in half for me at no additional cost to make 2 4x4 sheets so I have them do that.  That is the main reason I am not building a 4x8 machine.  A 4x8 sheet of 1/2" acrylic weighs nearly 100 pounds.  That and the fact it is not in my budget and I don't want to tie up that much shop space!


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## WoodCarverOH

Looking Great Curtis!
Maybe I'll get my present order faster now that you are CNC'ing.
I'm owner of CNC Shark Pro and love it.


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## MesquiteMan

WoodCarverOH said:


> Looking Great Curtis!
> Maybe I'll get my present order faster now that you are CNC'ing.
> I'm owner of CNC Shark Pro and love it.



ABSOLUTELY, sir!  That is the plan!  Right now, it takes me 4-5 hoursto cut and route parts for 13 pen chambers.  According to the time estimate in VCarve Pro, it will take the machine 1:18 to cut the same parts with better accuracy than I can do by hand which will make the assembly go together smoother as well.  Then on to the lids.  Right now, it take an average of 1 hour for each lid.  I am going to change my lid design and now make them out of another material where I can do it all on the CNC.  The software says it will take 2:23 to cut the parts, chamfer the edges, drill the holes, and v-carve my logo in the top.  Of course there will be tool change time in there but even if it takes 3 hours+, that is for 26 lids that would have taken 26 hours by hand!

I should have done this a long time ago but I am in a position where I am debt free and trying to stay that way.  I was going to do this last year but would have had to borrow money to do it and just did not want the debt.  Instead, I waited a year and was able to pay cash.


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## MesquiteMan

OK, here is where I am today thus far.  I had to take a break since it is so hot in the shop!  I am not used to working in the non air conditioned portion of my shop!

I wanted a good way to attach the base of the machine to my wood base and did not want to just use angles attached to the inside of the frame down to the wood.  My wood frame is too deep to drill all the way through so since the machine frame is extrusion, I decided to use the bottom t slot with an old stair maker's trick for attaching newel posts.  I drilled a hole down from the top where the center of the t track is the correct diameter for a bolt plus a little play.  I then drilled a 1 3/8" diameter hole in the side a couple of inches down to intersect the bolt hole.  This will be a clearance hole to put the washer and nut and get a wrench in there to tighten it all down.





I did not have any special headed t-bolts so I did a little playing and found I could take a regular 1/4-20 bolt and weld some spots on opposites sides and that would keep if from spinning inside the extrusion and allow me to tighten it all down.





Here is a pic of the side of the table with all the holes.  After I get the machine all together, I will run a piece of trim to cover the holes and probably paint it a different color to provide an accent.



Here is a pic of the top with the bolts installed before installing the extrusion.



This is how the bolt interfaces with the extrusion.  Kinda hard to see since it was hard to photograph.



And here it is with the outside frame installed.  The interior cross pieces are just sitting in place in this pic.  I am working on fastening them now.


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## Ed McDonnell

Hi Curtis - Until you get some cuts under your belt to see how your machine performs on real world cuts I wouldn't put too much faith in the cut times estimates you are seeing in VCarve.  You will likely need to set a scaling factor in VCarve to get more realistic estimates of cut time.  

Given your production focus, you will also likely want to manually fine tune your G-Code to get optimal performance.  The code VCarve generates is pretty good, but it can often be improved for production jobs.

Have you considered how much the aluminum might move vs the wood base as the seasons change?  I was surprised to see you bolting the aluminum machine to the wood base.

Ed


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## teamtexas

Curtis, have you accounted for the need to level the aluminum extrusion.  When I built my gantry cnc mill I sure wish I would have figured in a way to tweak the frame to account for a less the perfect base.  Shims would work, but some type of screw leveling would be better.  
What type of linear bearings did the kit come with?
Dan


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## MesquiteMan

Ed, see notes below in red



parklandturner said:


> Hi Curtis - Until you get some cuts under your belt to see how your machine performs on real world cuts I wouldn't put too much faith in the cut times estimates you are seeing in VCarve.  You will likely need to set a scaling factor in VCarve to get more realistic estimates of cut time.
> 
> I have already set my feed rates considerably lower than I should be able to get with the tooling I am using in acrylic.  I set it about half of what I should be able to run.  VCarve Pro takes this into consideration when estimating the time.  I really don't care, however.  Even if it takes twice as long as doing it manually, it will still be faster and much more precise!
> 
> Given your production focus, you will also likely want to manually fine tune your G-Code to get optimal performance.  The code VCarve generates is pretty good, but it can often be improved for production jobs.
> 
> I'll look into that some day in the future.  Thanks for the info.  Do you have any suggestions for reference materials I should look at?  I am not at all interested in learning G-code, though!
> 
> Have you considered how much the aluminum might move vs the wood base as the seasons change?  I was surprised to see you bolting the aluminum machine to the wood base.
> 
> Yes, I have considered this.  That is why I am using 100% engineered materials.  My structural components are laminated veneer lumber.  In my extensive testing and experience of 18 years as a hands on, super picky builder, I have found that LVLs just don't move.  I used them extensively in the houses I built and they were subjected to much worse conditions than in a shop.  Getting rained on, etc.  Besides, aluminum and steel both move also with changes in temperature.  I thought of building a steel base but am not a good enough welder to know how to weld to prevent heat warpage!
> 
> What would be your suggestion?  I do NOT want to just sit it on the base.  I went and saw a machine similar to mine that was just sitting on a base and was not impressed with that part of it.
> 
> Ed



Thank you very much for your comments, btw!


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## MesquiteMan

teamtexas said:


> Curtis, have you accounted for the need to level the aluminum extrusion.  When I built my gantry cnc mill I sure wish I would have figured in a way to tweak the frame to account for a less the perfect base.  Shims would work, but some type of screw leveling would be better.
> What type of linear bearings did the kit come with?
> Dan



I plan to use metal shims as I don't know of a good way to do it otherwise.  The good thing is, my base is about as perfect as possible!  It is perfectly square and flat and has been leveled with an expensive laser level (not an el chepo home depot special).


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## Ed McDonnell

Hi Curtis - see comments in green (if I can do it :biggrin


MesquiteMan said:


> Ed, see notes below in red
> 
> 
> 
> parklandturner said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Curtis - Until you get some cuts under your belt to see how your machine performs on real world cuts I wouldn't put too much faith in the cut times estimates you are seeing in VCarve.  You will likely need to set a scaling factor in VCarve to get more realistic estimates of cut time.
> 
> I have already set my feed rates considerably lower than I should be able to get with the tooling I am using in acrylic.  I set it about half of what I should be able to run.  VCarve Pro takes this into consideration when estimating the time.  I really don't care, however.  Even if it takes twice as long as doing it manually, it will still be faster and much more precise!
> 
> The nature of your parts will determine what your actual cut rate is.  Your machine will need to decelerate to go around corners.  The more square the corner needs to be, the more it decelerates to make the turn.  The more corners the more time lost in decel / accel.   But you are right, once you have a proven toolpath, you can be doing other things while it runs, so even if it doesn't end up being faster, you will end up being more productive.
> 
> Given your production focus, you will also likely want to manually fine tune your G-Code to get optimal performance.  The code VCarve generates is pretty good, but it can often be improved for production jobs.
> 
> I'll look into that some day in the future.  Thanks for the info.  Do you have any suggestions for reference materials I should look at?  I am not at all interested in learning G-code, though!
> 
> You won't need to learn a lot of G-Code.  Things like eliminating unnecessary retracts (deleting lines of code) and ordering of cuts (moving blocks of code around) can make a huge difference in time.  They will be relatively simple changes when the time comes.  You will also find that how you design in VCarve can make a big difference in performance.  I moved up to Aspire from VCarve a couple of years ago, but my understanding is that the current version of VCarve is a lot more efficient.
> 
> Have you considered how much the aluminum might move vs the wood base as the seasons change?  I was surprised to see you bolting the aluminum machine to the wood base.
> 
> Yes, I have considered this.  That is why I am using 100% engineered materials.  My structural components are laminated veneer lumber.  In my extensive testing and experience of 18 years as a hands on, super picky builder, I have found that LVLs just don't move.  I used them extensively in the houses I built and they were subjected to much worse conditions than in a shop.  Getting rained on, etc.  Besides, aluminum and steel both move also with changes in temperature.  I thought of building a steel base but am not a good enough welder to know how to weld to prevent heat warpage!
> 
> I understood the stability of the laminate.  It was the aluminum movement I was thinking of.  If I did my calcs right (and I might not have) you might get up to a 1/16" movement across 4 feet of aluminum from summer to winter.  That's going to show up somewhere if your machine is tightly bolted to the table.
> 
> What would be your suggestion?  I do NOT want to just sit it on the base.  I went and saw a machine similar to mine that was just sitting on a base and was not impressed with that part of it.
> 
> I have my CNC just sitting on it's base, although I did make my base bigger than my machine by about 12" on each side.  Are you worried about the machine moving?  If the machine is tuned right, it will run very smooth.  Think about how you would attach a desk top to account for movement.  Maybe you might consider securing only one side, or losen / tighten the bolts a couple times a year as the seasons change.
> 
> Ed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you very much for your comments, btw!
Click to expand...


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## MesquiteMan

Ed,

That makes sense about the aluminum movement!  Thanks for that heads up.  Since the holes through the wood that the bolts go through are larger than the bolt itself, I wonder if it would allow some movement there.  If not, I will take into consideration about loosening the bolts periodically.  That is a great idea.  What do you have for a a CNC?

As for Aspire vs. V-Carve Pro 7, from my understanding from reading CNC Zone and the Vectric forum, it appears that they are mostly identical in the functions that they share.  I currently don't have a need for any of the added features of Aspire and sure as heck don't have the budget right now!  All of my production needs are simply rectangles and nothing more.  Of course I will use it to play with as well when I am not working doing such things as signs, etc!

One question...I have my parts nested well so that they are very similar to how it would be cut on a tablesaw.  In other words, the edges all line up.  Would I be better setting toolpaths to make a long cut the length of the sheet rather than cutting each individual part at a time?


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## Displaced Canadian

Is this one of those kinds of tools that you put off buying for years because you don't really need it that much but once you get it you can't understand how you got by without it?


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## theidlemind

You are killing me with this thread Curtis (subscribed). 
I've got a small cnc router (10x24) built just waiting on funds for the cutter and the software. The software combo you are getting is EXACTLY what I am getting when funds allow. 
Great thread!


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## Leatherman1998

PLEASE do some videos of this in action this will be interesting to see. Keep up the good work.

Levi Woodard
Woodardwoodworks.com

Sent from my Rooted Galaxy Player.


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## joefyffe

MesquiteMan said:


> WoodCarverOH said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looking Great Curtis!
> Maybe I'll get my present order faster now that you are CNC'ing.
> I'm owner of CNC Shark Pro and love it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABSOLUTELY, sir!  That is the plan!  Right now, it takes me 4-5 hoursto cut and route parts for 13 pen chambers.  According to the time estimate in VCarve Pro, it will take the machine 1:18 to cut the same parts with better accuracy than I can do by hand which will make the assembly go together smoother as well.  Then on to the lids.  Right now, it take an average of 1 hour for each lid.  I am going to change my lid design and now make them out of another material where I can do it all on the CNC.  The software says it will take 2:23 to cut the parts, chamfer the edges, drill the holes, and v-carve my logo in the top.  Of course there will be tool change time in there but even if it takes 3 hours+, that is for 26 lids that would have taken 26 hours by hand!
> 
> I should have done this a long time ago but I am in a position where I am debt free and trying to stay that way.  I was going to do this last year but would have had to borrow money to do it and just did not want the debt.  Instead, I waited a year and was able to pay cash.
Click to expand...


smart move!


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## teamtexas

Curtis, how are you planning to hold your stock in place while you cut the sheet into parts?  Are you going to make a vacuum hold down jig?   This may affect how you plan to make the cuts.

 Long cuts are a bit easier on the controllers but the geckos should have no problem with cutting one piece at a time or all the pieces at once.  I originally was planning on nesting pieces and using a full sheet of abs plastic to cut the dies I sell, but later found it easier rough cut the ABS into blanks and use a common hold down jig to machine them one at a time.  It took my process from about 15 minutes a piece to 1.5 min. per piece.
Dan


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## Ed McDonnell

One question...I have my parts nested well so that they are very similar to how it would be cut on a tablesaw. In other words, the edges all line up. Would I be better setting toolpaths to make a long cut the length of the sheet rather than cutting each individual part at a time?

My initial answer would be yes.  The less you move the z-axis up and down and the less you change direction, the faster the job will complete.  This strategy (assuming you are doing only straight cuts on x & Y) would also give you perfectly square corners.  When cutting around corners (one part at a time) there is a tradoff between machine speed and corner integrity (aka "rounding").  Sign makers can tolerate a lot more corner rounding than guys who need their parts to fit together.

But it's not a simple question.  

Depending on the precision / accuracy of your build you might have to cut each part individually to get to what you need.  You won't know this until you see what your machine can do as you build it.  I run all leadscrews with CNCRouterpart linear motion components.  My error is less than 0.001" across 18" during a job.  R&P may have a little more error than that across 4 feet.  You'll have to do some test runs.

How you hold your material will make a difference in your optimal machining strategy.  With vacuum ($,$$$) you don't want to cut any more opening in your material than necessary.  If your job will always be the same, you could make a custom plenum for yourself that would make this less of an issue.  Long straight line cuts would be best here.

Given the cost of a large vacuum setup (I don't have one because I had a stroke when I saw the cost), I suspect you might be using clamps / tabs.  This is a very affordable and pretty effective way to hold the work, but it does requre a little cleanup work to get rid of all the tabs.  On wood, no problem.  Your use of acrylic might make this more of a nuisance than you are expecting.  Anyway, with tabs, you won't gain as much by using long straight line cuts as you would without the tabs.  Probably still better though.

Having said all that, given the cost of your material you will probably want to make minimizing material waste a higher priority than minimizing machine time.

While I'm thinking about it, consider picking up some foam sheets for test runs on your machine.  You don't want to waste pricey acrylic getting things dialed in and testing toolpaths.

I think I've wandered off into the woods here......back to your questions.

For what you are doing you don't need Aspire.  If you were into 3D rotary carving then it would be a different situation.  VCarve is a super program.  You will easily be able to produce toolpaths to do what you need.  However, getting your machine to produce parts that fit together the way you want is another whole journey fraught with pitfalls.  Having a laid back attitude (and not trying to meet tight production deadlines right at the start) will help a lot.

I've got a couple self built machines, but the one I use the most (99%+) is my Digital Ornamental Lathe ("DOL").  I built it using a lot the linear motion components from CNCRouterparts.  I didn't use R&P though so I can't help you with that.  But if you have any other question I'm happy to answer them (or at least try to think up an answer:wink.

I'm not a CNC pro by a longshot.  I'm just a guy who is a little further up the hill than you and who is willing to share what he's learned from the mistakes he's made.

Good luck.

Ed


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## ChrisN

MesquiteMan said:


> Ed,
> One question...I have my parts nested well so that they are very similar to how it would be cut on a tablesaw.  In other words, the edges all line up.  Would I be better setting toolpaths to make a long cut the length of the sheet rather than cutting each individual part at a time?



The longer of a cut you can make, the better. That will reduce the rapid times (time spent moving from the end of one toolpath to the start of the next one) and your programs will be completed sooner. You also can set the order of the toolpaths so the start of the next one is close to the end of the current one to reduce rapid times. If you would post a picture of how you are nesting your parts, I could give you pointers on how to machine it to eliminate unnecessary rapids. (I program CNCs for a living -- a 3-axis & a 5-axis)


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## Russknan

Curtis, I don't know anything about CNC but, reading your progress on the base, I couldn't escape the conclusion that, should you decide NOT to put the router on it after all, the base could reasonably be used as a substitute for a brick . . . uh . . . lavatory. Solid, precise construction! Russ


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## wiset1

Now that's a thing of beauty!


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## ohiococonut

Very nice Curtis!

I bought a Shark Pro Plus HD well over a year ago and I'm having a blast. I use mine for my hobbies and just because I enjoy making things out of wood. I have 5 grandkids so there's plenty of opportunities for me to make things. Now that I'm hooked I want to build a 4'x8' machine :biggrin:

VCarve Pro will do everything you need for your initial flat work. I recently upgraded to Aspire 4.0 and it's like VCarve Pro on steroids . There literally isn't anything I can't do with it. I initially started out with the basic programs, VCarve pro, Cut 3D and Photo VCarve. The first two programs combined will do essentially what Aspire can but it's much more time consuming and labor intensive. Photo VCarve is still needed for scanned pictures and lithos.
If you decide you want or need Aspire you should still get a discount on the purchase 1 year from now since you purchased VCarve Pro.

Anyway, back to your build.
Are you going to use a router or spindle? Cost and longevity are a factor here. I would advise against a palm router, no power and not designed for plunge cutting. Depending on what you are going to use, check out Precise Bits. They have incredibly accurate collets for router bits, not to mention bits themselves. They also have charts for recommended bits, speeds & feeds.

Your table is the same size as the machine. I built mine twice as large as my machine to provide a place for my laptop and controller. I also built an enclosure with plexiglas windows to cut down on the noise and my dust collector is hooked up to the back. The HF dust collector is fine but it collects dust, not chips. You can get a new one for $150 with a coupon, that's what I did. I also added a Thein baffle and separator drum to it. You may get by with a dust shoe if you so desire. I made one but didn't like the fact I couldn't see the bit cutting and it interfered with some of my 3D work. We work with two different mediums but you are still going to make a mess, minus the dust.

As far as VCarve Pro, watch the tutorial videos, they are invaluable. Need any help, I can probably help.

I'm sure you're already aware that besides the accuracy you get from cnc, it will allow you do be doing other things while it's cutting. 

Welcome to the addition :biggrin:


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## johncrane

Looks well made Curtis! i wish you well with your new machine.


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## BradG

CNC....lol...... I can almost hear my wife putting her foot down with the word NO echoing... one day... one day....

Looking good Curtis


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## skiprat

What are you on about Brad?? You have far more toys in your toy box than the rest of us already!!:biggrin:


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## Gregf

"I've got a couple self built machines, but the one I use the most (99%+) is my Digital Ornamental Lathe ("DOL"). I built it using a lot the linear motion components from CNCRouterparts. I didn't use R&P though so I can't help you with that. But if you have any other question I'm happy to answer them (or at least try to think up an answer:wink."

Other than a couple of pics in a thread I haven't been able to fond any previous posts about your "DOL". Any chance of starting a new thread with more info?


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## MesquiteMan

Got the base all fastened together, squared up, leveled, and fastened down.  In this pic, the rails are installed, the rear bumpers are on, and the rack for the rack and pinion are installed.




The rails are cold rolled steel and do not come with the red paint.  I got the idea to paint them by looking at other builds of this same machine.  It adds some color and helps keep them from rusting.  I cleaned them real good, masked off the area of the bearing to run, and sprayed a primer and then paint.

I took my time on everything and made sure things were true and accurate.  Today I am going to be working on the gantry.  Anyway, here is where I got by 2:30 am yesterday!  BTW, I did not get started until after lunch and I took a LOT of breaks due to the heat!  I also worked in the garden some so this is really only 3 or 4 hours of work.


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## MesquiteMan

See my comments in red!



ohiococonut said:


> Very nice Curtis!
> 
> I bought a Shark Pro Plus HD well over a year ago and I'm having a blast. I use mine for my hobbies and just because I enjoy making things out of wood. I have 5 grandkids so there's plenty of opportunities for me to make things. Now that I'm hooked I want to build a 4'x8' machine :biggrin:
> 
> VCarve Pro will do everything you need for your initial flat work. I recently upgraded to Aspire 4.0 and it's like VCarve Pro on steroids . There literally isn't anything I can't do with it. I initially started out with the basic programs, VCarve pro, Cut 3D and Photo VCarve. The first two programs combined will do essentially what Aspire can but it's much more time consuming and labor intensive. Photo VCarve is still needed for scanned pictures and lithos.
> If you decide you want or need Aspire you should still get a discount on the purchase 1 year from now since you purchased VCarve Pro.
> 
> Anyway, back to your build.
> Are you going to use a router or spindle? Cost and longevity are a factor here. I would advise against a palm router, no power and not designed for plunge cutting. Depending on what you are going to use, check out Precise Bits. They have incredibly accurate collets for router bits, not to mention bits themselves. They also have charts for recommended bits, speeds & feeds.
> 
> I am using a Hitachi M12v 2.25 hp router.  I am sure I will upgrade to a spindle some day but just could not do it now!  I have a set of precisebitd collets on the way already!
> 
> Your table is the same size as the machine. I built mine twice as large as my machine to provide a place for my laptop and controller. I also built an enclosure with plexiglas windows to cut down on the noise and my dust collector is hooked up to the back. The HF dust collector is fine but it collects dust, not chips. You can get a new one for $150 with a coupon, that's what I did. I also added a Thein baffle and separator drum to it. You may get by with a dust shoe if you so desire. I made one but didn't like the fact I couldn't see the bit cutting and it interfered with some of my 3D work. We work with two different mediums but you are still going to make a mess, minus the dust.
> 
> I will be putting the computer on a separate "cart" that I can move around to get out of the way, most likely.  I did not want to use it on the base of the machine itself.  For one, the rack and pinion system hangs down below the base of the machine so I would have to add risers to the wood base where the machine sets.  I wanted everything integrated and stout so choose this route.  Controllers and other electronics will go under the table.  I will enclose this area with plywood and make doors for access and drawers for tooling.  Of course the electronics will be enclosed with good fans to cool them.
> 
> I will be using a dust shoe from Kent CNC.  It has brushes that are held in place with rare earth magnets and makes changing bits much easier.  It is also clear acrylic.  I am confident with a dedicated DC for just this machine blowing into a collection shack outside with no bags for pressure drop, I will get good results.  I have working with dust collection a lot and have a system in my main shop that works very well that I designed.
> 
> As far as VCarve Pro, watch the tutorial videos, they are invaluable. Need any help, I can probably help.
> 
> I have had the trial version of VCarve Pro for two weeks now.  I have watched all the tutorials and have already done a number of projects with it, just waiting on the machine to run them!  While I was building, I designed and did the drafting for 98% of the 100 or so houses I built as well as a really cool church using parametric CAD software.  I already think in 3-d and found VCarve very easy to use and figure out.  We will see once the tool hits the material, though!
> 
> I'm sure you're already aware that besides the accuracy you get from cnc, it will allow you do be doing other things while it's cutting.
> 
> Like taking a nap as Bruce said above!
> 
> Welcome to the addition :biggrin:



Thank you for your comments!  I appreciate it!


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## MesquiteMan

Well, I got it all put together yesterday except the motors!  The motors I ordered were backordered and shipped separately from the rest of the machine.  They are supposed to get here today.  Everything else is ready to go.

Here are a few more pics taken yesterday.

Gantry rails installed and gantry complete



Assembling the Z axis.  Comments on the net say this is a really difficult step.  I must have done something wrong because I found it really easy.



Got the router mount done and attached the Hitachi M12v I bought for this machine.



Now just waiting on motors.  Everything else is complete.  After the motors come in, I will get them mounted and wire everything up.  Then it is time for testing!


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## mikespenturningz

You did a very nice job on this Curtis and you should be proud but this is exactly what I would have expected from you. I can't wait to see the finished product and maybe see a video of it in action.


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## Sandy H.

Are you using a speed control on your router?  I bought the SuperPID and it was worth it.  I also had good luck with the Ethernet version of the Smooth Stepper.  Both of these made an improvement to my small light duty homemade machine.  Someday I will upgrade to a real machine like the one you're building, but for now, I find that good electronics are very important.
 
Sandy.


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## MesquiteMan

Sandy H. said:


> Are you using a speed control on your router?  I bought the SuperPID and it was worth it.  I also had good luck with the Ethernet version of the Smooth Stepper.  Both of these made an improvement to my small light duty homemade machine.  Someday I will upgrade to a real machine like the one you're building, but for now, I find that good electronics are very important.
> 
> Sandy.



It is funny you mention the Super PID!  I am on their site as we speak placing my order!  It has been on my list to get but I wanted to get the machine up and running first.  I may end up with the Smooth Stepper in the future but for now, I am going to use the standard parallel port option with Mach3.

What did the Smooth Stepper do for you that makes it an improvement worth of the money?


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## leaycraft

OK curtis- this is wonderful to watch how you're progressing.  me  cleaning to find whats lost in the clutter that accumulated this year.  Now that school is out and Im on a 60 day hiatus I'm cleaning and organizing.  (swmbo says no more trips to HF for "cleaning supplies).  when paychecks resume in Sept. be looking for an order.  by then you should be up and running and Ill be organized enough to start down the Cactus Juice route.  john


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## BRobbins629

I may be wrong, but for what you are doing, I don't think the smooth stepper will be much of or any an advantage. The only time I considered one was when I worried that my old computer would die.  New ones don't come with a parallel port.


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## Sandy H.

I added the smooth stepper because I wanted to run it off a laptop with 0 communication issues.  Mach 3 sends the info out to the ESS and it does the heavy lifting (sending pulses etc) with output to the Gecko Drive - no load on my PC.  I run my system off my daily use laptop and have had 0 lag issues, no connectivity problems and no dedicated need.  Its been a while since I initially tried a parallel port setup, but as I recall, the data rate was limited by parallel port bandwidth.  That project had a step output and also took in input from an optical encoder.  I could easily flood the input from the encoder.  This might not be an issue for many uses, but in my case, it has been a smooth installation.
 
As far as the SuperPID, that thing is wonderful, as it lets you dial in a sane cutter speed if your traverse speeds aren't what you want.  Also, since you're going to be dealing with plastic, you have to manage cutter temperature pretty well, I'd wager.  I'm not sure how new to machining you are, but if you are somewhat new, be sure to check out the speed and feed information for the material you are cutting.  Use those rates as an initial guideline and do some test cuts to see which way you deviate for your setup.  A general statement would be: if your cutter gets hot, you are spinning the router too fast for your feed rate.  SuperPID lets you take control of that variable and make good cuts even if your machine isn't stiff enough.
 
Sandy.


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## MesquiteMan

The motors came in yesterday afternoon via UPS.  I got them all installed on the machine and hooked up the wires.  I also wired up the controller and hooked up the computer.  A Mach3 CNC controlled machine requires a parallel port (unless you buy a smooth stepper) and prefers to run under WindowsXP.  Naturally, new computers don't have parallel ports very often so when I was at a buddy's business, I noticed he had 3 junk computers sitting there.  I asked what he was going to do with them and said they were going in the trash, he just had not tossed them yet.  Well, I left with all three computers and managed to get one of them running very well!  Stripped down with just XP and Mach3 running with all processes not required shut down, it is actually very fast for a Pentium 4!

Anyway, I got the software all configured and went to the jog screen to manually control the router and the first button I pushed made it move as intended!!

Not to bad if I must say so myself!  Started building on Saturday after lunch and have the machine "jogging" by Monday evening after working all day Monday and not just working on the build over the weekend!

I am very happy with the kit from CNC Router Parts and would highly recommend them to anyone wanting to save some money getting into CNC.

Here is a youtube video I shot of some of the first movement of the machine!  I still need to attach my cable management and put the finishing touches on it but i imagine I will be cutting something within a day or so!

[yt]l3oxaXvA7VU[/yt]


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## Tom T

Way to go.  Great job.  Can't wait to see that first cutting video.


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## teamtexas

It's a great feeling to see it move for the 1st time.  Congrats!  Are you going to be installing base board on top of the aluminum rails?

Dan


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## mikespenturningz

Very nice Curtis. Can't wait to see it cut.


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## Gregf

It's alive!!


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## ironman123

*I am joining the CNC world! My CNC router build*

Come on Curtis, say something, show us something.  You got that thing working yet?  Don't leave us in the dark to long.:biggrin::biggrin:

Ray


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## teamtexas

Here Curtis, 
You gotta cut out one of these and attach it to your CNC somewhere.  After all they run your machine!


You can find more dxf files then you will ever need here Share Your Files Part or Art - Page 785

Dan


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## ironman123

*I am joining the CNC world! My CNC router build*

Dan, there are tons of DXF's on those pages. Thanks. I have only gotten to page 92 so far.

We are still waiting Curtis. You should have it all tweaked and in production.

Dan, we will see you at Rick's this Saturday. My old hunting grounds are across 107 down in the "Junction", going through Oglesby.

Ray


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## jaywood1207

Have you had a chance to shoot a video of it in progress Curtis?


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## SamThePenMan

GaryMGg said:


> Never get bored with a good build thread.
> Congratulations. Can I admit I'm jealous. :biggrin: :wink:


Haha you're not the only jealous one. 

It's been awhile since I've been on these forums, but glad to see some of the names I recognize still here. I actually came to get some ideas for bottle stoppers (going to make one for my cousin as part of her wedding gift) but couldn't help being distracted by this.

When I worked at my highschool we had 2 CNC mills, a CNC router and a CNC Lathe (all but one of the CNC mills were desktop units made by Denford, the other mill was a TMC1000), as well as a vinyl cutter/plotter which wasn't exactly the same but still pretty fun. I've always wanted a CNC machine after messing around with them. I almost got the TMC1000 when they sent it off to auction at the county but they messed up and separated the mill and its controller, and apparently lost track of both. Hopefully someone got it as I'd hate to think they tossed it out eventually.

I've very briefly looked at building a CNC machine, but at the moment my wife and I are renting. We're looking to buy a house with in the next year or two hopefully. Maybe then I can look into getting a work shop setup with one of these in it. For now I'll just have to settle for keeping up to date with the progress here.


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## LouF

Nice CNC machine I have one I built last year I built the a Fine Line Machine was designed by Ahren of CNC router parts. I am running the Gekco 540, Nema 23, Mach3, VCarve pro7 Hitachi MV12.


Lou


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## Donovan

I have a Ruiji 1325 4 axes cnc. It is a Chinese make but it works very well

Donovan


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