# Revolving tailstock chuck, review. Good stuff!



## redfishsc (Dec 1, 2006)

I recently purchased a revolving tailstock chuck from www.littlemachineshop.com to replace the use of the live center. I was conviced that the live center method-- even with a 60 degree live center-- had it's faults. I was also turning oval pens like crazy, and did everthing I could think of to fix the problem... nothing worked... UNTIL....... I found the problem. In the process I bought the Beall Collet chuck from Woodchips (highly recommended!) and the revolving tailstock chuck in the following link:

http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2504

So here is what I've learned regarding a lathe that turns correctly rounded pens.

1) After all fails, replace your spindle shaft and spindle bearings. $30 later my lathe was found to be one of the major culprits, not just the live center. 

2) After futher inspection of my mandrels, one of them has an improperly drilled 60-degree hole---- it has a nipple in the center of  the hole which the live center was dancing around, albeit a very small amount to the naked eye, but a LOT when the pen was put together and found to be oval. The rotating tailstock chuck totally eliminates this problem. Yes this was a woodcraft mandrel. So the problem wasn't the actual centers, but the mandrel. 




So for the actual review of the product. 

1) The thing is HUGE! It is way bigger than it needs to be for our purpopses but it does fit and does work. This is one of those cases where the size doesn't matter so long as it doesn't wiggle the worm.

2) It rotates slick as glass and I cannot detect any slack in the bearing. Straight, solid, and true. I put a 1/16" bit in it and a 1/16th" in my standard jacobs chuck and joined them nose to nose, and with both spinning slowly they both were visibly in alignment. 

3) You absolute MUST know your tailstock. Most lathes I've used have tailstocks that have a tad of slop in them, in that they can wobble a tad before you lock it down. Be sure to know your tailstock's proper orientation before you lock it down if it has much wobble. My Delta has nearly a 16th of wobble but it's easily corrected when I lock it down. If your tailstock is off-kilter (or "cantilever" as some of the British folks say) then you may wear out the bearing in the rotating chuck). 

4) The rotating chuck ELIMINATES THE KNURLED BRASS NUT in two ways (if you use a collet chuck/adjustable mandrel). First, it galls up the threads when you tighten it so you can't use the nut any how. Second, you adjust the amount of mandrel you need by sliding the excess into the Beall collet/adjustable mandrel. Tighten it down quite tight so it doesn't slip. Then, use the rotating tailstock chuck squeeze the bushings between the tailstock and collet. To do this, lightly hand-tighten the tailstock chuck on the mandrel end (only 3/4" or so is needed) and use the ram on the tailstock to advance the rotating chuck and pinch the bushings. Lock the ram. Use the included key for the rotating chuck to tighten it (but don't gronk it, it doesn't need much). 

5) You can buy regular steel rods from places like McMasters or Enco that are the proper diameter and use them instead of mandrels made for pen turners. Cut them with a hacksaw or angle grinder to whatever size you want. I haven't done this yet but I will eventually when I want a new mandrel.




I love it. Yes, costly, but not much more costly than a name brand live center. 


The reality is I didn't need to buy this thing b/c the problems I was having with the live centers was more error on the mandrel, so I only needed to check the mandrels before use and return any that were not good (one mandrel out of the three I've bought from woodcraft had a bad end, not a good track record).

But on the other hand, glad I did buy it. It is IMO more accurate than the live center joint, eliminates the need for the brass knurled nut if you use a collet chuck or adjustable mandrel, and is, well, a cool looking tool. 


Charles--- GET THIS ITEM but see if you can get one that's a bit smaller (ie, like a 3/8" capacity instead of 1/2" and, well, a more reasonable price).


I like it!


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## Paul in OKC (Dec 1, 2006)

I would be concerned about maximum rpm. Most things made for metal lathes are usually rated around 2500 rpm. 
 It also sounds like the center issues were from your live center being not the 60* point. I slightly ground the tip of mine (60*) to help it not bottom out in the bottom of the hole in the mandrel.
I guess we have been all over the 'oval' pen issue, so I wont go there.
Bye!


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## redfishsc (Dec 1, 2006)

Paul, I don't recall a "max rpm" rating, good thought. I've run it at the 3700-whatever the Delta max is, which is what I turn all my acrylics at, no problem (well, yet, I guess?). 

I'll email lms and find out. 

Thanks, 

Matt


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## Paul in OKC (Dec 1, 2006)

> _Originally posted by redfishsc_
> <br />Paul, I don't recall a "max rpm" rating, good thought. I've run it at the 3700-whatever the Delta max is, which is what I turn all my acrylics at, no problem (well, yet, I guess?).
> 
> I'll email lms and find out.
> ...


It was just a thought from what I hae seen in some of the metal working catalogues for accessories I get.


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## ctEaglesc (Dec 1, 2006)

I must be missing something, but I don't understand how something with that many moveable parts can be more accurate than a center point.
Just my take but I can spend 52 dollars in other places.


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## redfishsc (Dec 1, 2006)

Eagle, yes, you are right in that the number of moving parts is more. 

However, the proof is in the puddin'. And I like me some puddin'. 


And agreed, $52 is a lot to pay for this thing. I think it could be made smaller and more affordable. 

I do know that while using this thing, I cannot feel even a hint of a wobble out of round. I lay a chisle on the mandrel right in front of it, at any speed, and it's slick as glass. 

Time will tell if it holds up as good as it performs right now. It certainly has made pen turning easier for me. $52 easier, well, that's debatable.


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## Rifleman1776 (Dec 1, 2006)

It would be no less accurate than any drill press chuck and/or something made for precise work on a metal lathe. I like the idea. This looks like a very versitile addition to any lathe set-up. Yes, another $52.00 is more money down the pit. It's never ending. But, in looking at it, I thought of several other applications for turning. Thanks for the post, one of the more useful we have had for a while.


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## JimGo (Dec 1, 2006)

Couldn't you substitute the $19 HF Jacobs chuck in its place?

EDIT:  Duh...never mind!  NOW I get the significance of the "revolving" part of the chuck's name!


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## bob393 (Dec 1, 2006)

Interesting. I just use a delta live center, seems fine.


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## sandking (Dec 2, 2006)

Ok I know I'm new to this, but I have a Jet Mini and a Penn State Adjustable Mandrel and I don't think I have the issues with the live center and out of round pens.  How do I know what degree my live center is?  Also how do I check my mandrel to make sure it's straight?


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## hrigg (Dec 3, 2006)

> _Originally posted by sandking_
> <br />Ok I know I'm new to this, but I have a Jet Mini and a Penn State Adjustable Mandrel and I don't think I have the issues with the live center and out of round pens.  How do I know what degree my live center is?  Also how do I check my mandrel to make sure it's straight?



Russ Fairfield has an excellent write-up on how to check your mandrel.

http://www.woodturnerruss.com/Pen12b.html


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## redfishsc (Dec 24, 2006)

Sorry for the lousily late response to everything here but a month later and 30-40 pens later I still think this thing is a good purchase, though it could use some more refining. My biggest problem isn't even with the chuck, it's with my tailstock, my Delta has more slop in it than it should. I'm going to have to make another post regarding this to see what y'all might suggest.


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## ctEaglesc (Dec 24, 2006)

Looks like your original post was premature huh?[]


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## redfishsc (Dec 24, 2006)

No, my opinion on the thing hasn't changed, though my opinion on Delta has evolved (or de-evolved I guess) from "decent" to "eh, whatever". 

It is a good tool IMO but it does require you to rethink the way you set up your mandrel. 

I have, oddly, begun turning my larger pens like cigars and Gents by forgoing the mandrel altogether. I just set the proper bushings up and lock an individual blank between a dead center (in headstock, $5 from Grizzly) and a live center (tailstock). 

Holds them true and straight. 

I guess simply put I can't stand mandrels and won't use them if I can avoid it. I know I'm weird in this regard but then again I'm weird in a lot of regards[]


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## Rifleman1776 (Dec 24, 2006)

Oneway has a tailstock spinner thing that allows use of an expanding chuck on the 'wrong' side. Looks like a very handy item for bowl turners. Pricey at about $110.00.


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## redfishsc (Dec 25, 2006)

Just curious, I've turned enough bowls to be confused now--- what would a bowl turner need with a revolving expanding chuck? Sounds interesting but how would it be used?


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## its_virgil (Dec 25, 2006)

If your Jet live center is the stock one it is not a 60 degree live center and the dimple in the end of a mandrel is a 60 degree hole. After making a few pens you will notice your live center point getting a ridge aournd the end just above the tip. Here it is:
http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1189

Merry Christmas and ...
Do a good turn daily!
Don


> _Originally posted by sandking_
> <br />Ok I know I'm new to this, but I have a Jet Mini and a Penn State Adjustable Mandrel and I don't think I have the issues with the live center and out of round pens.  How do I know what degree my live center is?  Also how do I check my mandrel to make sure it's straight?


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## KenV (Dec 25, 2006)

Hmmm  --  I can see turning a piece of ultra high molecular density polyethylene, derilin or nylon to fit over a piece of 1/2 inch rod.  Chuck the rod into a set of jaws on the headstock and round over the end to form a pad.  With that in the tailstock jaws, you would have a great tailstock support for turning small boxes, bowls, etc.  Need a different shape, back to the headstock.  Got an old 1/2 inch bit and the costs for the rod just went down.  

Need a different support for a turning, anything with a 1/2 or smaller shank can become an effective end piece.

I have thougth about gettiong one for turning fine spindles.  Putting the spindle into tension instead of compression takes a bunch of deflection out of the process.  Knitting needles, crocheting needles, and hand spindle shafts become easier.  

Ken in Juneau  -  who needs a different lathe to use this though....


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## thetalbott4 (Dec 25, 2006)

> Putting the spindle into tension instead of compression takes a bunch of deflection out of the process.



Good point, anyone ever try that? Sounds like a real problem solver. Pulling instead of pushing on the mandrel/spindle/whatever. For a mandrel it would require a way to tighten the bushings and blanks down while still providing an area for the chuck to clamp down onto. Maybe a piece with internal threads to screw onto the mandrel end after the knurled nut is put on?


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## Rifleman1776 (Dec 26, 2006)

> _Originally posted by redfishsc_
> <br />Just curious, I've turned enough bowls to be confused now--- what would a bowl turner need with a revolving expanding chuck? Sounds interesting but how would it be used?



Bottoms can be accessed for final turning and/or finishing. Sometimes a Cole chuck doesn't do the job.


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## Joe Melton (Dec 26, 2006)

> _Originally posted by redfishsc_
> <br />Just curious, I've turned enough bowls to be confused now--- what would a bowl turner need with a revolving expanding chuck? Sounds interesting but how would it be used?


Say you mount your wood on a faceplace and turn the outside of the bowl and the tenon. Then you can mount your chuck on your tailstock and clamp it to the tenon while the wood is still mounted (and attached to the faceplace). Everything will be in line when it is all dismounted, the faceplate removed, and the chuck mounted on the headstock. This saves a lot in terms of re-truing the outside of the bowl. Hope that makes sense, though it probably doesn't to anyone who hasn't done a bowl.
This doesn't require a revolving chuck, although, with the Oneway setup, it will revolve. There could be times you might want to use a chuck rather than a live center at the tailstock, but I don't know what they would be. I assumed the setup was used just to align the chuck with the OD of the bowl, as I described above.
Joe


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