# Dipping lacquer durability issue?



## Cherrywalk (Sep 11, 2012)

Do I have a Dipping lacquer durability issue?


  I am a big fan of using dipping lacquer for finishing many of my pens. I love the finish and easy of application and the high gloss finish while still allowing the texture of the wood to be felt. 



  That said, I have just discovered that many of my lacquer finished pens have picked up the “finger print” of the strap in my low budget black felt pen boxes. If you look under the strap (that holds the pen in the box) of these (PSI) boxes, it looks like there is a plastic waffle texture patterned designed to grip the pen. What I have notice on many of my lacquer finished pens that I have kept in the box under the strap for a period of time is that the finish picks up the waffle “finger print” from the underside of the strap. In addition, the lacquer finish also seems to rub on the felt lining at the same pressure point of the strap leaving a dull spot on the finish. Okay, one last point to share before my question. I tend to make larger pens and they do tend to fit very tightly under the strap. I am sure I am pushing the limit of what should be pushed under the strap. 



  My pens finished in CA or wax/shellac methods to don’t appear to have this problem.


  I am interested if others have had this problem? Is this just a shot fall of using dipping lacquer? Am I expecting too much from my lacquer finish? Or am I just shoving too much pen (like Big Ben’s) under the strap meant for a smaller pen?


  Anyone aware other durability issues I might have a lacquer?


  I appreciate everyone’s thoughts, input, and feedback. Thanks in advance…


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## OOPS (Sep 11, 2012)

I am not an expert on lacquer, so this is just what I have heard from talking to others. The problem you're likely experiencing is due to the extremely long cure time for lacquer. It may be dry to the touch, but the finish is soft literally for weeks, again, from what I have been told. If you assemble the pen within a few days and place the pen in your display, the finish is technically dry but not fully cured. The pressure of the band is actually pressing into the finish, affecting both sides of the pen. 

My brother uses lacquer to paint the guitar bodies he makes.  One time he was working on a guitar he had painted about two weeks previously.  When he stopped for the night, he placed the guitar on a towel instead of hanging it up.  When he returned two days later, the paint had a perfect impression of the towel's design, which had been established merely by the guitar's own weight against the cloth.  

I once spoke with someone who was attempting to "harden" the lacquer finish more rapidly by using a light bulb as a heat source.   Unfortunately I never heard whether this was successful.


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## alamocdc (Sep 11, 2012)

Carter, I agree with Bill on the cure time likely being the issue. While I don't use "Dipping" lacquer, my primary finish is lacquer. I use Deft gloss. And lacquer takes quite a long time to cure. At least a week in arid climates, longer in more humid areas. Here in south central Texas I will wait at least two weeks before attempting to buff. The long cure time is my only complaint about lacquer. It holds up very well... for me. One other thing I have noticed though. Do not store lacquer finished pens in a leather binder that has been chrome tanned (not sure about other tanning) as the lacquer will react with the leather regardless of how long it has cured. I found this out the hard way.

Oh, I store my lacquered pens in velvet roll up pouches. They hold about 16 pens, or so. I can't remember where I got them, but it was likely from Mannie (Wooden Wonders), Woodturningz or Bear Tooth Woods.


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## Longfellow (Sep 11, 2012)

Positively a curing time problem.


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## Holz Mechaniker (Sep 11, 2012)

When I use to make traditional arrows I used a product called Gasket Lacquer.  I could dip arrows put on the field tips and fletching. Then go shooting within a couple of days.  
Not sure if this helps but there was someone who came up with a rig for pens.


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## nativewooder (Sep 11, 2012)

+1 on curing!  A simple and easy technique for dipping just doesn't exist.  You are at the mercy of Mother Nature unless you know someone who paints autos professionally.


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## Haynie (Sep 11, 2012)

I was once told to bake something I lacquered to speed up cure.  Was this right?


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## KenV (Sep 11, 2012)

Haynie said:


> I was once told to bake something I lacquered to speed up cure.  Was this right?



Warm is probably a better descriptor than bake.  Elevated temperatures help the solvents evaporate more rapidly.


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## BigE (Sep 11, 2012)

Using a pre-cat lacquer will also speed the drying time. Sherwin Williams makes a good one.

Don't use a brushing lacquer like Deft. It has drying inhibitors.

I generally wait about a week for the lacquer to cure. If you can still smell the lacquer, it is still curing.


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## JKicker (Sep 11, 2012)

I use lacquer every day at work and it takes several days to fully cure. 

To speed curing we heat it in ovens around 100F for about an hour after it has had 10 to 15 minutes of flash time.  Heating it before it flashes will cause pin blisters.  After the oven cure, it still needs several days for the finish to fully cure.


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## Texatdurango (Sep 12, 2012)

mid 2007 - Made a few beautiful pens by dipping them in lacquer

A month later, opened similar trays you mention and the strap had ruined all the pens.

A few weeks later, made a few more pens, this time I let them cure for THREE WEEKS before even assembling the pens.

Looked and felt solid as a rock so I put them in one of my cases

Another week went by and I opened the case and AGAIN, the bands had melted into the pens.

Threw away the lacquer dipping apparatus I made and never used lacquer again.... just not worth the hassle and worry, ESPECIALLY worrying what the customer would do once he got the pen..... then want me to repair.


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## BigE (Sep 12, 2012)

Texatdurango said:
			
		

> mid 2007 - Made a few beautiful pens by dipping them in lacquer
> 
> A month later, opened similar trays you mention and the strap had ruined all the pens.
> 
> ...



Do you recall the brand or type? Brushing lacquer will do that. Never had a problem like that with pre cat lacquer.


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## Texatdurango (Sep 12, 2012)

BigE said:


> Texatdurango said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No I don't, it's been a while now but I started using some Deft I got at Lowes then switched to something by Sherwin Williams.  This was about the same time I was experimenting with CA for finishes, which I got pretty good at so never looked at lacquer again.


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## Cherrywalk (Sep 12, 2012)

My thanks to everyone who has responded. It has been a huge help!!!


Texatdurango and I seem to have the same problem, but I have yet to let anything dry more then a week. While I have never had a pen returned for this reason, I am worried someone will not be happy down the road. Rats. 



 I’ll significantly increase my dry time and share the results over time. 



  [FONT=&quot]Okay, now how do I correct the problem on my imprinted pens? I can sand and refinish easily I am sure. I am, however, wounding if these light marks can be buffed out (I don't have a buffing system right now). Is a [/FONT] lacquer finish buffable (if buffable is a word)?Any thoughts on this????

Thanks again!
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]


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## BigE (Sep 12, 2012)

The nice thing about lacquer finishes is that they are easier to repair. Each additional coat melts into the previous one. Also, lacquer thinner will dissolve or remove the previous coats.

Worst case you remove the old finish with thinner, cover the pen parts with blue painter's tape, and redip.


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## soundman (Sep 20, 2012)

Just had a thaught.

Have ya thaught about switching to good old shelac as a dipping laquer.

If ya go to a dewaxed white..or a hard shelac ( if anybody does it in the US), it comes up pretty durable on other things.
 It drys fast and if you want it hard and fast, you could bake it.

cheers


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