# Comparing Pen Diameters



## Noot17 (Apr 2, 2020)

Hey all,

I tried searching the forums for something like this, but wasn't able to find anything - apologies if it's out there and I'm just blind.

I am wanting to start getting into kitless, and noticed there is currently a group buy on triple start taps/dies. If I'll be able to order any, it would likely just be one size for now. *I'm curious if people could share some side-by-side pictures of pens made with various sizes of taps/dies to get an idea of the overall pen sizes with various tap/dies?* I prefer Baron/Sedona, and Jr. sized pens - what taps/dies would be best for those?

I'm also curious to see some comparison of single and triple start threads since I've read the single tend to need more length of threads.

Lastly, and maybe unrelated, if I wanted to make pens where the cap is the same diameter as the body, is there a tap/die size that works better for that than others?

Thanks in advance!


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## eharri446 (Apr 2, 2020)

Based on my memory of the sizes for the Sedona and Navigator pens I would image that they would be best with the 12 mm x .8 triple start tap and dies. However, as has been mentioned, and there is not a right way on how to do it, you can use a 12 mm X 1 tap and die which you can get from Victor Net for the cap and a 10 mm X 1 for the section. I would suggest starting with a roller ball as your first one since the section also hold the filler in place. I have been looking at what I think would be the proper sizes for a kit less pen based on the tap size for the cap. For example, if you used a 14 mm tap for the cap i would look at a 16 to 17 mm diameter at the end of the cap where the threads are, and for a 15 mm for the body at the thread end which would go into the cap. The reason for those two size is that it gives you 1 to 1.5 mm around the outside of the threads. The 15 mm for the body would give just a little bit of clearance from the treads.

If you want to make the body match up to the outer dimension of the cap, then your body would be whatever dimension you chose for your cap. You just need to remember to make your section or nib match the final size of your threads or just a fraction under them to make it pleasing to the eye.

Other than that, it has been mention that the "Golden Mean" plays into the length of the cap and body based on the overall length.


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## Noot17 (Apr 2, 2020)

Thanks for the input! If I understand correctly, your method is to design the size of your cap first, then base the rest off that? The note on the section matching the final size of the threads is helpful - a stairstep wouldn't look very good right there.


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## 1shootist (Apr 2, 2020)

If you want pics to look at for comparison, pull my past posts and anything I have titled with kitless in the header has some. I started with 1/2" x 24 tap & die, then went to M12, M13, and now M14 tap & die. I have tap / die size used listed on most of my pics I believe. Most of my pens look like crap but you can use the pics to compare sizes.


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## Danie Maartens (Apr 3, 2020)

Noot17 said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I tried searching the forums for something like this, but wasn't able to find anything - apologies if it's out there and I'm just blind.
> 
> ...



Photo of Jr Majestic compared to kitless pens made with M12 x 0.8 mm tap and die for body to cap.


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## magpens (Apr 3, 2020)

Danie Maartens said:


> Photo of Jr Majestic compared to kitless pens made with M12 x 0.8 mm tap and die for body to cap.



@Danie Maartens 

That is a rather useful picture ... as well as interesting, Danie ! . Thank you for posting !


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## howsitwork (Apr 3, 2020)

like the burr one on the top and the orange and black one draws my eye in as well.

any more photos of those two please?


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## darrin1200 (Apr 3, 2020)

Going by the external dimensions of a baron (13mm cap and 12mm barrel), you would be looking at about a 10 or 11mm thread. Keep in mind that your section has to be able to pass through the cap thread. The section size will be determined by the size of the nib you use.
To get a good lock of cap to barrel, you want about one full turn, much more than that and it gets tedious removing the cap. The triple start allows the pen to fit more securely with less turns than single threads.
Most of my pens I have been making lately have a 13mm triple thread and use a #6 nib.
Keep in mind, that there is no optimum size of pen. If you want to try the tripple threads, I would recommend getting either a 12mm or 13mm set. Then build your pen to suit.

Getting into custom pen making is a process that doesn’t just happen.

Good luck on your journey. If you have any questions, shout out.


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## Noot17 (Apr 3, 2020)

Danie - that is just what I was looking for! For the bottom pen, it looks like a Diamondcast blank, can you provide some more images or details on that? I like the style of the cap and body being the same diameter and would love to see more of the detail on how you did that.

Darrin - thanks for the pointers! Definitely a useful reminder about the section needing to fit through the cap threads - I could easily see myself making the hole too small and not realizing it until I'm try to assemble and can't get the cap on... Do you know what the minimum cap thread diameter would be for a #5 vs #6 nibs - either Jowo or Bock?


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## darrin1200 (Apr 3, 2020)

@Noot17 
Not sure about the #5, but (off the top of my head) my #6 jowo section is a hair over 11mm. You can get an M12 to work, but I prefer at least M13. That’s going to set your cap at about 15-16mm.
You just need to play around and find what you like. That’s why all my first pens were done using inexpensive acrylic blanks. You don’t worry if you break a few.


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## More4dan (Apr 3, 2020)

On the smaller size, with a #5 fountain pen nib the minimum cap thread would be an 11mm with a section thread of 9mm. You need a minimum of 2mm difference in the front section thread and the cap thread.

Danny


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## Danie Maartens (Apr 4, 2020)

Noot17 said:


> Danie - that is just what I was looking for! For the bottom pen, it looks like a Diamondcast blank, can you provide some more images or details on that? I like the style of the cap and body being the same diameter and would love to see more of the detail on how you did that.
> 
> Darrin - thanks for the pointers! Definitely a useful reminder about the section needing to fit through the cap threads - I could easily see myself making the hole too small and not realizing it until I'm try to assemble and can't get the cap on... Do you know what the minimum cap thread diameter would be for a #5 vs #6 nibs - either Jowo or Bock?



It was shown in this post.






						Refillable Rollerball Pen
					

Made my second kitless pen. Like to thank all the penmakers that posted tutorials and advice on making kitless pen on this forum. Without that information being available I do not think I would have been able to make one of these.



					www.penturners.org


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## Noot17 (Apr 6, 2020)

Thanks for all the input!

Danie - thanks for the link to the other thread. That looks amazing for your second kitless! It's also almost exactly the same style of pen I want to make, both RB and fountain. Definitely helpful to see the additional details on that.


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## More4dan (Apr 6, 2020)

Danie Maartens said:


> It was shown in this post.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Minimum standard thread for the the Cap for a #5 nib would be M11 x 0.80. Drill with a Y drill bit and you can make the section 0.400” OD. These leaves enough room for the feed and the ink converter. 

I’ve done 10.5mm in aluminum but had to make my own taps. 

Danny


Sent from my iPhone using Penturners.org mobile app


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## Noot17 (Apr 6, 2020)

Thanks, Danny. So it sounds like if I'm on a budget, an M12x0.8 triple start would be the best middle-ground because I could potentially squeeze a #6 out of it, but definitely do a #5 with it.

Thanks for all the help! Hopefully I can jump into this in the next couple months with some cheaper single-threads, then get the triple with the group buy.


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## More4dan (Apr 6, 2020)

Noot17 said:


> Thanks, Danny. So it sounds like if I'm on a budget, an M12x0.8 triple start would be the best middle-ground because I could potentially squeeze a #6 out of it, but definitely do a #5 with it.
> 
> Thanks for all the help! Hopefully I can jump into this in the next couple months with some cheaper single-threads, then get the triple with the group buy.



That’s a good way to see what size you like best. www.victornet.com is a good place to get metric taps. EBay and Amazon are also worth checking too. 


Sent from my iPhone using Penturners.org mobile app


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