# Closed-end postables?



## Bill Hicklin (Feb 24, 2016)

Has anyone here had any success adapting a kit into a closed-end, postable pen like those from the commercial manufacturers?  The typical posting finial isn't (IMO) very attractive, and more to the point it gets in the way of the buyer who's expecting a full-length body like Pelikan and Montblanc and Parker etc etc sell routinely.  To the more informed buyer it screams "kit pen."

Any voices?


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## jttheclockman (Feb 24, 2016)

Bill welcome to the site.

There is some contradiction in the question. Yes you can make a closed end on just about any kit pen. Taper it enough on the end where the cap slides over the end. But the contradiction point is why???  If a pen is not meant to post then that is it. If you have the cap slide over the end of a closed end pen the threads will scratch that end even if it is wood or  metal. Making your own end of a pen allows you to make it any length you want to.

Maybe I am not understanding your question well. But that is my thought.


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## Bill Hicklin (Feb 24, 2016)

Yes, I guess I wasn't clear.

If, say, I want to start with a Churchill kit and make a pen along the lines of a Scheaffer Balance, Sailor 1911 or Montblanc Meisterstück, the classic cigar pens from which the Churchill concept itself descends. When capped it should be torpedo-shaped at both ends.

To my knowledge there are no commercial capped pens which use posting finals, they are all self-posting. A finial just declares "kit pen." And somehow all those Watermans and Auroras and Parkers and so on manage not to scratch up their barrels.


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## ed4copies (Feb 24, 2016)

They are not built on a brass tube.  IF you want the end to slope, so that the cap can post, then the cap should have an interior slope, as well.  With the brass tube in place, no slope is available--SO, you need a finial, like the metal ones provided in the kit.


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## thewishman (Feb 24, 2016)

The weight and girth of kit pens makes it difficult to compete with commercial pens in the commercial pen world. It can be done, and some have done it well. To take a copy of a famous pen and then try to turn it back to compete with that original design is a nearly impossible task.

A much easier method would be to eliminate the kit-making step and go directly into making your own designs from scratch. It takes a couple of big steps to do it, and it is well worth the effort - it opens up a completely new world of possibilities.

Here are a few articles from the library to get a start on making your own designs:

http://content.penturners.org/library/pens/fountain_pen_section.pdf

http://content.penturners.org/library/pens/kitless_pen.pdf

http://content.penturners.org/library/pens/bulbfiller.pdf

http://content.penturners.org/library/pens/another_way_pen.pdf

http://content.penturners.org/library/pens/kitlessclickpen.pdf

It may take a couple of hundred dollars to get started, and you can do everything on a wood lathe. As your designs progress, a metal lathe will be a good purchase. The added precision of a metal lathe will allow for even better results.


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## Bill Hicklin (Feb 24, 2016)

Well, I'm certainly not attempting to compete with Montblanc, but then I'm not pricing mine at $900 either!

I threw out those classic designs just to illustrate the sort of cap posting and overall shape I had in mind, not that I'm attempting to clone any of them.  But I do see your point about the brass tube, and the difficulties it raises. I'll have to think for as bit about that, in connection with the links above.


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## SteveG (Feb 25, 2016)

Bill, if you do a search for "closed end" pens you will find a nice selection of pens from kits where the turner has made the pen closed, and often without using the full length of the tube. Also, most will be as short and as small in diameter as it can be without a blow-through. This will give you a visual starting point for what you are attempting. But note that most of what you find in that search are not intended to be posted, but rather are just going for the closed end look.


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## darrin1200 (Feb 25, 2016)

As has been mentioned above Bill, you can do it, but you will need to eliminate or modify the brass tube. I am assuming you want to start with a kit, because you don't currently have the ability to do your own threads.

If the material you are using does not need the support of the tube, ie. acryilics, then all you need to do is drill two holes. One, just wide enough to fit the convertor, to a depth that will accomidate the convertors lenth. I would have to check my books, but 8mm comes to mind. The next step is to drill a larger hole to fit the adapter piece that the section screws into. Drill just deep enoug to take the adapter. The adapter will get epoxied into the hole. This will allow suffisient material, at the finial end, to make a taper for posting.

The biggest problem with this method is how to hold the barrel for final shaping. If you have sufficient excess parts, you could take a spare section and glue it to a tenon on a piece of acrylic mounted in your chuck. This would essentially make a mandrel for the barrel.

Another method would be to make the second, larger hole, deep enough to take about 1-1/4" of the kit tube. Once glued in, this piece of tube should be enough to allow you to use a pin chuck to hold it for final shaping. Afterwards, the section adapter could be press fit or glued into the barrel. 
NOTE: I have used barrel trimming mandrels to make pin chucks.

Once you start playing with these ideas, the possibilities become endless.

Good luck with the project.


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## Bill Hicklin (Feb 25, 2016)

Or, perhaps, an alternate approach would be to turn the "barrel extension" as a separate piece which would attach in place of the finial, and which wouldn't have to be drilled out at all beyond the depth needed for the connector. 

But there's another problem I sussed out last night which will have to be thought on, which is that in capped kit pens the cap threads are of very small diameter, too small to allow a barrel of any realistic diameter to fit (unless the thing has a taper like a desk pen!)

Leaving them out isn't an option, since a screw-cap is just about a necessity (otherwise it would require an ink-tight slip fit or a Parker-style clutch ring). However, I've noticed that commercial pen caps tend to be appreciably longer than the ~1-3/4 inches found in a kit; an Esterbrook J has a 2-1/4" cap. Perhaps an extra half-inch below the threads, hollowed out..... boy, that would leave some very thin walls though


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## corgicoupe (Mar 15, 2016)

I just completed a closed-end modification of a Kojent kit. It is not postable, but the increased length makes that unnecessary. I cut the barrel to the length of a finished pen, including the finial. Then drilled the barrel only to the depth required for the converter, leaving about 1/4". Dropped a tube in the hole and cut a 2nd tube so the two were 1/8" shy of the open end. Then dropped in the short piece and glued in the longer one. Turned with a bushing at the headstock and a live center in the tail, and shaped the barrel. For shaping the closed end to remove the center mark I shoved a dowel in the tube and chucked the dowel. My first attempt, and it turned out quite good (pun not intended).


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## corgicoupe (Mar 15, 2016)

Bill Hicklin said:


> Or, perhaps, an alternate approach would be to turn the "barrel extension" as a separate piece which would attach in place of the finial, and which wouldn't have to be drilled out at all beyond the depth needed for the connector.
> 
> But there's another problem I sussed out last night which will have to be thought on, which is that in capped kit pens the cap threads are of very small diameter, too small to allow a barrel of any realistic diameter to fit (unless the thing has a taper like a desk pen!)



I thought about making a "sort of blind cap" to go over the finial, leaving the bands as decoration, but this would still not allow posting.


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## corgicoupe (Mar 15, 2016)

Bill Hicklin said:


> Yes, I guess I wasn't clear.
> 
> If, say, I want to start with a Churchill kit and make a pen along the lines of a Scheaffer Balance, Sailor 1911 or Montblanc Meisterstück, the classic cigar pens from which the Churchill concept itself descends. When capped it should be torpedo-shaped at both ends.
> 
> To my knowledge there are no commercial capped pens which use posting finals, they are all self-posting. A finial just declares "kit pen." And somehow all those Watermans and Auroras and Parkers and so on manage not to scratch up their barrels.



I thought about this too. If you wanted to make a shape like a Sheaffer Balance, you could discard the cap end piece and clip, and drill blind holes in both cap and barrel. To keep the pen a reasonable length you might have to modify the brass, and may want to limit to cartridges.


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