# Questions on whether or not to make a fountain pen



## faas

Looking for some guidance. I've been given an opportunity to display some pens at a friend's family art gallery during their show of Christmas gifts. She suggested 5 pens and said fancy is better. I would like to offer a fountain pen or 2 to this audience but I know absolutely nothing about them. This worries me because I would not be able to field questions or respond to problems that may occur. Would you all advise against making one for this reason? Or is it typical that if someone buys a fountain they know something about it and can troubleshoot themselves?  I will not be at this event, my pens will simply be there on commission.


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## duncsuss

All the usual disclaimers about my opinion, your mileage may vary, etc, etc.

I would use kits that have interchangeable parts for fountain pen and rollerball, and send them built as rollerballs. Include a notice saying that they are convertible and if somebody wants one to be changed to a fountain pen, they should contact you.

That reduces the chances of a nib getting destroyed by people who don't know how to cap a fountain pen, can't keep from dropping stuff, etc, and leaves open the option of selling to the FP crowd if they are interested.


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## magpens

I like Duncan's advice. . I think his line of thinking puts the onus a little more on the buyer to select the FP capability (at her/his own risk  sort of).

Making a fountain pen is, in some ways, just as easy as making a rollerball or a click pen.
It depends somewhat on the kit.  A Triton convertible is perhaps what Duncan has in mind and that kit is quite easy.  Consider also the Atrax ... don't know if there is a convertible kit for it though. . But I feel confident you can easily switch a RB to FP and vice versa.

Exotic Blanks has the Triton convertible, and I don't think you can go wrong with it. . The price reflects the convertibility. . You can also buy the Triton in a rollerball only or in a fountain pen only. . You could then do a change to the other (if requested) after the sale.

https://www.exoticblanks.com/Triton-Convertible-RB-FTN-Pen-Kit-Chrome-Upgrade-Gold-Accents.html


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## duncsuss

I was actually thinking of the Caballero, also from Exotic Blanks (it was formerly from Smitty's Pen Works), but either one would work nicely for this situation.

https://www.exoticblanks.com/Caballero-Pen-Kits-SPW/


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## ed4copies

At the risk of angering the advertising gods, I will give my thoughts.  If you purchase the atrax as a rollerball, the Berea fountain pen front end will fit it and is available in most of the plating choices of the atrax.  So, you could create a "convertible" using the atrax (less decoration than the triton).

If your hostess suggested "Fancy is better", the Triton would be a better choice--it looks more "Fancy", without the accompanying price tag of a pen like the Jr. Statesman. (Fancier yet, but pricey)

Of course, if you have limitless funds, make an Emperor or Imperial--then put a hefty price tag on it ($500 ish)  Use an appropriately high end blank.  If they want fancy, maybe the crowd can afford fancy!!!


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## ed4copies

faas said:


> Looking for some guidance. I've been given an opportunity to display some pens at a friend's family art gallery during their show of Christmas gifts. She suggested 5 pens and said fancy is better. I would like to offer a fountain pen or 2 to this audience but I know absolutely nothing about them. This worries me because I would not be able to field questions or respond to problems that may occur. Would you all advise against making one for this reason? Or is it typical that if someone buys a fountain they know something about it and can troubleshoot themselves?  I will not be at this event, my pens will simply be there on commission.



I realized I ignored your question.  SORRY!!!  Here is my answer!

I would submit 5-6 pens.  None would be less than $100, since this is an art gallery.  I would make one masterpiece (Emperor or Jr. Emperor--I would use an Abalone blank, because it goes GREAT with this pen) and price it at $495.  The other pens would be rollerballs and ballpoints, again using Italian resins or unbelievable burls, priced from $150-350, probably emphasizing the $195 area (Very nice gift for friends for well-off individuals)

Then who cares what you know?  Will SOMEONE be answering questions for the attendees?  Do you get to tell them anything about your pens?  Assuming you don't, write a compelling brochure for each pen, with it's picture on the first page and description of pen and materials on the inside.  This is your SALESMAN--make it complete and convincing.

I do not condone making fountain pens without learning about them, but every rule has exceptions and this appears to be one time you can only guess about your customers' knowledge level.  Once you have made the pens and have an opportunity, spend time on YouTube researching "tuning a fountain pen nib".  You will learn a great deal!!  (I especially recommend a man named BREBrown, from Britain--easy to listen to and clear information!!)

Hope this helps!!

Ed


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## magpens

It may be not too wise to interpret the potential customer as knowing what they want. 

I have had customers request me to make a fountain pen for them only to discover later that they themselves, or their giftee, did not like a fountain pen at all.


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## bmachin

With reference to Ed's suggestion above: here is the link to Stephen Brown's YouTube Channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeWDDbfQxKv0Cgq_UNpwYpA

The best way to find what you need is to look at his playlists.

Ed is right about the education you can get, but wrong about where he's from--he is actually from the Netherlands.  

Hope this helps,

Bill


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## ed4copies

Thank you, Bill!!

I have given dozens of people the wrong information!!  Thanks for the correction!!


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## bmachin

I wasn't picking on you Ed.  I thought the same thing until I looked at his website recently.  He actually has a PhD in cognitive neuroscience from Leiden University.  

Certainly sounds British though.

Bill


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## Beautys_Beast

I will just echo what Ed said. If your only going to show a few pens, and fancier is better, were talking art gallery fancy, I would go straight to the Majestic Jr in rhodium and gold. Yes it is a 50 dollar kit, but, with a extremely nice blank, this easily presents as a 400.00 dollar pen. It comes in both fountain, and Roller Ball. Make one of each. Then make two Cambridge kits in sliver with gold accents, one in Fountain, one in Roller ball. List these at 300.00 each. Make sure you use an extremely nice blank, like Ed said. Don't go cheap on the blank, it makes the pen. You are making a one of a kind. Make it look like it. 

The 400.00 pens will sell the 300.00 pens, and the person who has to have the best of the best, will buy the 400.00 pen.


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## Mr Vic

Personal opinion, Stephen Brown is an excellent choice but his audience is the fountain pen community that has at least the basic down. For some ground level basic knowledge on what a fountain pen is and how to use and care for the check out the "Fountain Pen 101" in the blog over at www.gouletpens.com.

Excellent series but watch you wallet if you stray from the blog and look at any of his ink or paper.


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## knotandburl

My "two cents" based on a year working markets (at least 2 each month for the past 12 months). If you're going to be in attendance and working with the clients then I would suggest getting know more about fountain pens. They are by far my best selling pens at the markets I attend. I starting turning them because I've always owned one but never really knew what it was to "own" a fountain pen until I started selling them. 

I've been lucky and only had one "pushy" client that basically told me I didn't know enough about the pens I was selling since I couldn't answer the questions he had about he nibs on the pens. I very quickly started educating myself on fountain pens including swapping out nibs, maintenance, nib types, etc. 

This was only 1 client - who has since come back to my booth a few times now and we discuss various fountain pen related things and he has even helped with my education after our first encounter - but I would take the advice of those above that recommend working with a convertible pen to start with until you can get at least the basics of fountain pens under your belt.


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## TurtleTom

I've made several modern fountain pen kits that are so bad to write with they are in their own little bowl and are never used.
   If you want to learn something about fountain pens find someone who will let you write with one of the pre WWII pens with a gold nib.  I have a Waterman (Pre WWII) that is so nice to write with that I doubt anything made in the last 40 years will compare to it, short of a handmade or highly tuned nib.  It flexes to produce calligraphy style letters if you wish.


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## Texasshipagent

recommend skipping the kit fountain pens , are junk, however kitless is another story , it’s a completely different challenge more a mix of machine work skills and turning , but if you master it , very rewarding , and if you get really good, can fetch $100-$200 a pop for well done customs pens 


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## McKenzie Penworks

Texasshipagent said:


> recommend skipping the kit fountain pens , are junk, however kitless is another story , it’s a completely different challenge more a mix of machine work skills and turning , but if you master it , very rewarding , and if you get really good, can fetch $100-$200 a pop for well done customs pens
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Nothing junk about a Mistral or several other kit pens out there.


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## MRDucks2

Everyone’s junk has the potential to be someone else’s treasure. 


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## leehljp

Some great suggestions here and hope that it is not too much and confusing. 

Somethings I learned several years back on this forum: 

1. True fountain pen connoisseurs will not let someone else use their pen. The nib begins to wear in accordance to how the user holds and writes. A tiny flat spot begins to develop that is unique to individual writers. Letting someone else use it changes the microscopic edge of the flat spot, and a experienced writer can tell when something is off.

2. Fountain pen connoisseurs have the money and pay more than most ball point/roller ball pen buyers do.

3. Fountain pen aficionados usually KNOW if the pen maker knows his stuff. (You won't be there so that is an advantage to you for not getting put on the spot for immediate technical questions.)

#3 said, The first set of fountain pens that I made years ago, the buyer was as ignorant of quality and smooth writing as I was at the time. Like you, I educated myself - but enough to stay away from it except for special requests.

4. If you can, ask a few questions about the target audience. I live in a generational poverty area of north MS, and there is as big a swing between middle class and the blue bloods as there is between the generational poverty and middle class. The wealthy KNOW quality and won't buy anything less than $500.00, and they know their nibs and feeds - and the seller better know also, or they won't buy. The middle class won't go much over $100.00 and the generational poverty folks stick to Bics. That is not a slam but it it knowing the target people. 

BTW, I used to live in Japan (Tokyo, Osaka, Nagoya/Toyota City), and learned about "target" audiences there. People are different and have different opinions. Knowing that helps.


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## bmachin

Hank,

Great post. Although I would quibble with the reasoning behind the first point.  

The tipping on any reasonably good nib is really, really hard and I can't believe that writing a few thousand words on paper is not going to change the shape to the extent that anyone could tell the difference.  A more serious concern in my estimation is that the borrower would be likely to bear down too hard and screw up the tine alignment or worse.

I can't remember if it is on his website or if he said it at a pen show in a tuning seminar, but Richard Binder was commenting on the fairly widely held belief that you can smooth a nib by writing on a brown paper grocery bag.  (I believe You can find that advice on this site.) He explained that all you are doing is filling up the rough spots with paper fibers.

Not arguing that you should loan out your fountain pen (you shouldn't, except maybe to your wife), or that tipping doesn't wear (it does; it just is a really slow process).

Anyway, just an opinion that's worth maybe a little less than what you paid for it.

Bill


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## leehljp

bmachin said:


> Hank,
> 
> Great post. Although I would quibble with the reasoning behind the first point.
> . . .
> 
> Anyway, just an opinion that's worth maybe a little less than what you paid for it.
> 
> Bill



Bill, you are probably right. What I wrote was what was written about 10 years ago, and knowing some of the obsessive compulsiveness habits of fountain pen owners I know around here, I can say that some people adhere to that thought like an old wives tail, whether it is true or not. 

In any case, the customer is right if it makes a sale on that kind of financial scale. :biggrin: Thanks for your input on this. We DO like to know what is right.


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## jalbert

bmachin said:


> Hank,
> 
> Great post. Although I would quibble with the reasoning behind the first point.
> 
> The tipping on any reasonably good nib is really, really hard and I can't believe that writing a few thousand words on paper is not going to change the shape to the extent that anyone could tell the difference.  A more serious concern in my estimation is that the borrower would be likely to bear down too hard and screw up the tine alignment or worse.
> 
> I can't remember if it is on his website or if he said it at a pen show in a tuning seminar, but Richard Binder was commenting on the fairly widely held belief that you can smooth a nib by writing on a brown paper grocery bag.  (I believe You can find that advice on this site.) He explained that all you are doing is filling up the rough spots with paper fibers.
> 
> Not arguing that you should loan out your fountain pen (you shouldn't, except maybe to your wife), or that tipping doesn't wear (it does; it just is a really slow process).
> 
> Anyway, just an opinion that's worth maybe a little less than what you paid for it.
> 
> Bill



Agreed. It seems there is a misconception that nibs will wear down with casual use from someone other than the owner of the pen, however the tipping material on most nibs (I say "most", because some nibs are untipped) is extremely hard. The more pressing issue is lending your pen to someone who is unfamiliar with fountain pens, and chancing that they might use too much pressure and spring the nib or bend the tines.


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## jalbert

leehljp said:


> Some great suggestions here and hope that it is not too much and confusing.
> 
> Somethings I learned several years back on this forum:
> 
> 1. True fountain pen connoisseurs will not let someone else use their pen. The nib begins to wear in accordance to how the user holds and writes. A tiny flat spot begins to develop that is unique to individual writers. Letting someone else use it changes the microscopic edge of the flat spot, and a experienced writer can tell when something is off.
> 
> 2. Fountain pen connoisseurs have the money and pay more than most ball point/roller ball pen buyers do.
> 
> 3. Fountain pen aficionados usually KNOW if the pen maker knows his stuff. (You won't be there so that is an advantage to you for not getting put on the spot for immediate technical questions.)
> 
> #3 said, The first set of fountain pens that I made years ago, the buyer was as ignorant of quality and smooth writing as I was at the time. Like you, I educated myself - but enough to stay away from it except for special requests.
> 
> 4. If you can, ask a few questions about the target audience. I live in a generational poverty area of north MS, and there is as big a swing between middle class and the blue bloods as there is between the generational poverty and middle class. The wealthy KNOW quality and won't buy anything less than $500.00, and they know their nibs and feeds - and the seller better know also, or they won't buy. The middle class won't go much over $100.00 and the generational poverty folks stick to Bics. That is not a slam but it it knowing the target people.
> 
> BTW, I used to live in Japan (Tokyo, Osaka, Nagoya/Toyota City), and learned about "target" audiences there. People are different and have different opinions. Knowing that helps.



In response to #4, this is where an effective online marketing strategy is invaluable. I too live in an area that isn't particularly wealthy, however I have numerous orders in my queue. Social media has made it extremely simple to market your pens. I've found that instagram is a great platform for accruing potential customers and orders.


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## Gregory Hardy

Before you add fountain pens to your repertoire, make one for yourself and use it.  Use it.  Then make some kit fountain pens and test them.  I sold about 250 pens through the Christmas season, and about fifty of them were fountain pens.  Most of those were to first-time fountain pen owners.  Selling them took a lot of teaching - care, cleaning, use, inking.  Not rocket science, but it involved teaching.  Once the prospective owners were taught, they were confident.  Make yourself comfortable with a fountain pen first.  Once you do so, you will catch the disease.  The rest will be "sharing your passion."  (Or sell ballpoints and rollerballs with pride.  Just make pens!)


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## Texasshipagent

mckenziedrums said:


> Texasshipagent said:
> 
> 
> 
> recommend skipping the kit fountain pens , are junk, however kitless is another story , it’s a completely different challenge more a mix of machine work skills and turning , but if you master it , very rewarding , and if you get really good, can fetch $100-$200 a pop for well done customs pens
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing junk about a Mistral or several other kit pens out there.
Click to expand...




Appreciate your point, and not to sound insulting,  but truth be told,am sorry to say no real fountain pen enthusiast would be caught dead with those, don't let the bling fool, the parts that matter are junk 


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## Texasshipagent

bmachin said:


> Hank,
> 
> Great post. Although I would quibble with the reasoning behind the first point.
> 
> The tipping on any reasonably good nib is really, really hard and I can't believe that writing a few thousand words on paper is not going to change the shape to the extent that anyone could tell the difference.  A more serious concern in my estimation is that the borrower would be likely to bear down too hard and screw up the tine alignment or worse.
> 
> I can't remember if it is on his website or if he said it at a pen show in a tuning seminar, but Richard Binder was commenting on the fairly widely held belief that you can smooth a nib by writing on a brown paper grocery bag.  (I believe You can find that advice on this site.) He explained that all you are doing is filling up the rough spots with paper fibers.
> 
> Not arguing that you should loan out your fountain pen (you shouldn't, except maybe to your wife), or that tipping doesn't wear (it does; it just is a really slow process).
> 
> Anyway, just an opinion that's worth maybe a little less than what you paid for it.
> 
> Bill





The back side or a legal pad will do this, have also used a leather coaster, do figure 8's in forward and reverse order, but ultra high grit (12,000) microgrit cloth or mylar film works better

The main reason a nib is stratchy is often there times are not aligned , but once get them right some light buffing will finish it off 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Texasshipagent

leehljp said:


> Some great suggestions here and hope that it is not too much and confusing.
> 
> Somethings I learned several years back on this forum:
> 
> 1. True fountain pen connoisseurs will not let someone else use their pen. The nib begins to wear in accordance to how the user holds and writes. A tiny flat spot begins to develop that is unique to individual writers. Letting someone else use it changes the microscopic edge of the flat spot, and a experienced writer can tell when something is off.
> 
> 2. Fountain pen connoisseurs have the money and pay more than most ball point/roller ball pen buyers do.
> 
> 3. Fountain pen aficionados usually KNOW if the pen maker knows his stuff. (You won't be there so that is an advantage to you for not getting put on the spot for immediate technical questions.)
> 
> #3 said, The first set of fountain pens that I made years ago, the buyer was as ignorant of quality and smooth writing as I was at the time. Like you, I educated myself - but enough to stay away from it except for special requests.
> 
> 4. If you can, ask a few questions about the target audience. I live in a generational poverty area of north MS, and there is as big a swing between middle class and the blue bloods as there is between the generational poverty and middle class. The wealthy KNOW quality and won't buy anything less than $500.00, and they know their nibs and feeds - and the seller better know also, or they won't buy. The middle class won't go much over $100.00 and the generational poverty folks stick to Bics. That is not a slam but it it knowing the target people.
> 
> BTW, I used to live in Japan (Tokyo, Osaka, Nagoya/Toyota City), and learned about "target" audiences there. People are different and have different opinions. Knowing that helps.





I agree most of your points except actually these days you can get some really quality pens far less $500, infact I would say once north of ~$150 your paying for materials and artistic craftsmanship, but not improvement in writing. example there is a brand TWSBI that makes some awesome piston pens for $35 , or $25 pocket Kaweco sport is pretty solid, as is the $15 pilot metro. or my personal favorite restored esterbrooks which were $1 pens in the 1950's but excwptionally made and still write well even 60+ years later (I regretfully admit I own 35 esterbrooks), or old scheaffer triumph vac fillers are exceptional as well.

What makes the pen is the perfect mix or a quality made nib and feed, dependable ink flow an balance / weight , all the rhodium bling, spiffy clips and fancy barrels in the planet can't make a pen that fails in those areas a good pen 

Regularly you see pen bloggers slam very expensive pens that fail those basics irrespective of price

For me, I love fountain pens as am left handed and traditionally a huge note taker due to nature of employ, my hand writing is worse then a doctor's , for years could only use finenpoint pens and pencils 

after some dedication learned to use a fountain pen, and it greatly improced my hand writing 

Second reason am a fan of well engineered gadgets, 

Third, just like collecting vintage stuff 


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## Phil Dart

Texasshipagent said:


> mckenziedrums said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Texasshipagent said:
> 
> 
> 
> recommend skipping the kit fountain pens , are junk, however kitless is another story , it’s a completely different challenge more a mix of machine work skills and turning , but if you master it , very rewarding , and if you get really good, can fetch $100-$200 a pop for well done customs pens
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing junk about a Mistral or several other kit pens out there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Appreciate your point, and not to sound insulting,  but truth be told,am sorry to say no real fountain pen enthusiast would be caught dead with those, don't let the bling fool, the parts that matter are junk
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Click to expand...

Just wondering which bits you consider to be bling and which are the parts that matter in your subjective opinion. This is after all a forum for pen makers, and I'm sure others would be interested to learn why you feel the pens that by far and away the majority of folks here make are all shite.


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## More4dan

I’m guessing he may be referring to a $50 kit with a $10-$60 blank with a $4 nib that doesn’t work as it should. And poor ink that comes with the kit that only makes it worse. 


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## corgicoupe

More4dan said:


> I’m guessing he may be referring to a $50 kit with a $10-$60 blank with a $4 nib that doesn’t work as it should. And poor ink that comes with the kit that only makes it worse.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Penturners.org mobile app



Then what would you recommend? I have made  a few Lazerlinez pens that have Schmidt nibs, and some Kojent pens. Both received good comments at our pen collectors meeting, and these are serious collectors and restorers. I have been asked to make some for club members; they were looking at a $30 kit with a $10 wood blank.


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## More4dan

corgicoupe said:


> More4dan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m guessing he may be referring to a $50 kit with a $10-$60 blank with a $4 nib that doesn’t work as it should. And poor ink that comes with the kit that only makes it worse.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Penturners.org mobile app
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then what would you recommend? I have made  a few Lazerlinez pens that have Schmidt nibs, and some Kojent pens. Both received good comments at our pen collectors meeting, and these are serious collectors and restorers. I have been asked to make some for club members; they were looking at a $30 kit with a $10 wood blank.
Click to expand...




I brought what I thought was a “High End” fountain pen I made to a local store in Houston that specializes in Fountain pens. I used a quality kit, Jr Aaron, stainless Damascus for the body and cap. The first thing the owner did was pull the cap and look at the nib, returned the pen to me and said he wasn’t interested. The kit came with a good German nib that I had tuned and wrote smooth. However the high end market has certain expectations a typical kit doesn’t meet. Today’s Honda Odyssey will out perform a Porsche 356 and a Jaguar XJK form the early 60s but no one will ever be collecting it and pay top dollar at auction.  I think there is nothing wrong with a $30 kit with a $10 blank, I also own a Honda Odyssey.  One just has to know their market.  I write almost exclusively with a fountain pen but it takes maintenance and upkeep. I just like the variety of ink colors available and the old fashion feel to it. There could be more customer rework/hassle you won’t see with a similar rollerball.  I also quickly moved to a kitless pen, I find most kits too heavy for everyday use. I also enjoyed the challenge of making kitless pens. For me it’s a hobby.  The time invested to make a kitless would make it hard for me to make a profit without reaching upward to a higher end market for better pricing.  Just my limited experience.  Learning how to tune and adjust the nib and knowing how to trouble shoot should be a minimum for someone selling FPs. Happy customers are important.  


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## corgicoupe

I made one Jr Aaron because I wanted to try one with a large nib. It's too "blingy" for my taste.


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## corgicoupe

In answer to several of the above posts, Ryan Krusac was making and successfully selling $300 kit pens at multiple pen shows around the country. He told me that he found The Statesman to be the best kit and used it almost exclusively. Statesman II is equal, but smaller. If the look of the nib is the selling/buying point, Ryan would supply a 14k nib for an additional $125 [his cost the last time I was on his site].

I've never heard a disparaging remark about the nibs on the handful of pens I showed to the local pen club. I had one scratchy and dry nib on a Kojent  kit pen [only 1 out of 50], and the Woodcraft store handed me a new nib which worked quite fine.

I, too, found the kit pens heavy, and lightened one by eliminating the barrel finial, which makes it non-postable. Then I went a step further and eliminated the cap finial and clip, making it even lighter but it can't be carried in a shirt pocket and might roll off the desk. And you end up discarding about half the parts you paid $30 for!

I discarded the idea of "kitless" pens because of the need to buy rather expensive multi-start taps and dies, or purchase a more expensive metal lathe with threading ability. Add to this the fact that wood doesn't thread very well, and that sealed the decision. So, I made a few dip pen holders that only require a small insert pressed into a 1/4" hole in the barrel -- almost kitless!


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## corgicoupe

I should have added images of the dip pen holders. Top to bottom, rosewood, ebony, and zebrawood.


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## More4dan

Those are lovely!  I really like the ebony!


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## corgicoupe

Thanks. And they are fun to turn because one is free to create, with minimum restrictions for length, diameter, and shape. I like the ebony one, too.


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## Texasshipagent

More4dan said:


> I’m guessing he may be referring to a $50 kit with a $10-$60 blank with a $4 nib that doesn’t work as it should. And poor ink that comes with the kit that only makes it worse.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Penturners.org mobile app





Bingo ! Could not of said it better 


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## Texasshipagent

corgicoupe said:


> In answer to several of the above posts, Ryan Krusac was making and successfully selling $300 kit pens at multiple pen shows around the country. He told me that he found The Statesman to be the best kit and used it almost exclusively. Statesman II is equal, but smaller. If the look of the nib is the selling/buying point, Ryan would supply a 14k nib for an additional $125 [his cost the last time I was on his site].
> 
> 
> 
> I've never heard a disparaging remark about the nibs on the handful of pens I showed to the local pen club. I had one scratchy and dry nib on a Kojent  kit pen [only 1 out of 50], and the Woodcraft store handed me a new nib which worked quite fine.
> 
> 
> 
> I, too, found the kit pens heavy, and lightened one by eliminating the barrel finial, which makes it non-postable. Then I went a step further and eliminated the cap finial and clip, making it even lighter but it can't be carried in a shirt pocket and might roll off the desk. And you end up discarding about half the parts you paid $30 for!
> 
> 
> 
> I discarded the idea of "kitless" pens because of the need to buy rather expensive multi-start taps and dies, or purchase a more expensive metal lathe with threading ability. Add to this the fact that wood doesn't thread very well, and that sealed the decision. So, I made a few dip pen holders that only require a small insert pressed into a 1/4" hole in the barrel -- almost kitless!





Watch this guy, he ain't got any expensive tooling !  

https://youtu.be/08pUuLREZR4


Only expensive tool I bought for kitless was a special tap for jowo nib units, rest are inexpensive standard taps, dies and die holders, and jobber drill bits from Victor machinery , my best pen tools are made from 4-8$ HSS tool bit stock, even a few HSS Allen keys , ground to suit , and acetal derlin rod for handles ,


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## Texasshipagent

Sorry if appear objectionable but I stand by my comments true fountain pen enthusiasts don't want pen kits , the statesman in fact is styled after the true standard of executive pens , a vintage Parker Duofold , next only to a Pelikan

 to answer other , the bling is the adornment, some do like jewelry'esk pens, Sly Stallone has his own Montegrappa that is like $6k , personally I think it's over the top, but whatever floats the boat 

The best selling kitless pens are simply and traditionally styled, made from from pretty but not over the top acrylic, or ebonite with a $20 jowo nib unit, $30 in materials and fan fetch north of $175 a pop all day long , they have a clip, can be capped , but most of all have a proper balance and enjoyable writing experiance 

When you guys say pen club, is it a fountain pen club ? Or the kit pen turners club ? 

Making kitless is a commitment , have made over 50 so far , but only 5 I would dare to sell, but am light years from the derlin practice pens stated with 18 months ago, 

If people pay for them, sure why not, but still maintain all the skill and expensive stock on a chinese knock off hardware is still very much lipstick on a pig 


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## Texasshipagent

corgicoupe said:


> In answer to several of the above posts, Ryan Krusac was making and successfully selling $300 kit pens at multiple pen shows around the country. He told me that he found The Statesman to be the best kit and used it almost exclusively. Statesman II is equal, but smaller. If the look of the nib is the selling/buying point, Ryan would supply a 14k nib for an additional $125 [his cost the last time I was on his site].
> 
> 
> 
> I've never heard a disparaging remark about the nibs on the handful of pens I showed to the local pen club. I had one scratchy and dry nib on a Kojent  kit pen [only 1 out of 50], and the Woodcraft store handed me a new nib which worked quite fine.
> 
> 
> 
> I, too, found the kit pens heavy, and lightened one by eliminating the barrel finial, which makes it non-postable. Then I went a step further and eliminated the cap finial and clip, making it even lighter but it can't be carried in a shirt pocket and might roll off the desk. And you end up discarding about half the parts you paid $30 for!
> 
> 
> 
> I discarded the idea of "kitless" pens because of the need to buy rather expensive multi-start taps and dies, or purchase a more expensive metal lathe with threading ability. Add to this the fact that wood doesn't thread very well, and that sealed the decision. So, I made a few dip pen holders that only require a small insert pressed into a 1/4" hole in the barrel -- almost kitless!





Wood needs a liner, derlin, aluminum or brass works well, best to make the lower sections from ebonite , don't need multi start taps, basic metric HSS plug taps work fine, I use either 1 1/2 or 2 inch round dies and a 12$ die holder , chuck it in the tail stock with a drill chuck or can even slide it on a punch rod chucked in a collet 

I do by hand on my wood lathe, i do have a machinst lathe but you would not use the the threading gears and a threading bit for something that small in soft material 


You do need a good selection of letter, metric and fractional bits to get the desired thread class fit , as some materials drill differently than others , so maybe the book calls for a certain metric drill for that tap but it may be better to step up the the nearest decimal inch +/- in fractional or letter 

Having multiple drill Chuck's helps, I have 6 Jacobs that collected from from ebay $20-45 used, just have to watch for deals , makes it little easier , as may end up using 8 different drill sizes and 4 different taps , but one chuck will do

Some use triple starts on cap threads, those admit are pricey , I find a looser fit and course thread works fine, just don't need too many threads, or will have excess turns to uncap

The art however is getting the bottom of the barrel to fit with a light snug in the cap without having either a giant cap, poor balance or loose cap , likewise getting the section to fit in the cap without jamming the nib into the bottom of the cap 

Can buy used Starrett or.other US made vintage machinest calipers, depths gauges, rules, etc all day long on eBay for cheap 


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## corgicoupe

"When you guys say pen club, is it a fountain pen club ? Or the kit pen turners club ?"

In my post I was talking about a vintage fountain pen club, although some members prefer the new pens.


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## corgicoupe

"Wood needs a liner, derlin, aluminum or brass works well, best to make the lower sections from ebonite , don't need multi start taps, basic metric HSS plug taps work fine, I use either 1 1/2 or 2 inch round dies and a 12$ die holder , chuck it in the tail stock with a drill chuck or can even slide it on a punch rod chucked in a collet

I do by hand on my wood lathe, i do have a machinst lathe but you would not use the the threading gears and a threading bit for something that small in soft material"

I did woner about using national fine single start taps and dies, but had not thought about the possibility of threading a liner glued in the wood. Back to the drawing board.


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