# Best chuck for kitless work?



## cloud (May 25, 2010)

Hello,

I am about to get as lathe and some equipment to start trying to make kitless pens.  I would like to know what type of chuck you recommend for kitless work.

I was thinking of rounding between the centers and using collet type chuck (3/4''), i am looking to see what other recommends before committing to a purchase.

What do you use, 3 jaw chuck, 4 jaw chuck, other speciality type chuck i.e. barracuda or other, collet...

Cheers


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## Russianwolf (May 25, 2010)

Just ordered my Beal Collet Chuck yesterday. I'll be ordering the collets from ebay in the metric pack which gives you more options on sizes.

I have a 4 jaw chuck and have made a couple pens with it, but the jaws will mar the pen. I could replace the jaws with nylon ones and avoid that, but the collet chuck will work better I think.


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## ldb2000 (May 25, 2010)

For kitless pen work , a collet chuck will be the only thing you use . If you are going to do bowls or boxes you will want to get a scroll chuck but it really isn't very good for kitless work . 
I have the PSI collet chuck for all my pen work , both kit and kitless . I chose the PSI collet chuck for several reasons . First is price , for the price of the Beall chuck body you get the PSI chuck body and the 5 most used collets . Second is that it is knurled so you don't need wrenches or spanners to tighten or loosen it , it does come with a set of tommy bars for those times when you need the extra grip (very seldom) and it comes with a fitted case so you can keep the set in one place . I also bought 5 extra collets for the missing sizes between the PSI collets ($10 each shipped on ebay) . Total cost was $125 for the whole setup as opposed to over $200 for the Beall and the full set of collets (which you will only use about half the set , I never use anything smaller then 1/4" and some of the smaller in between sizes) 
The PSI set costs $89.99 plus shipping from them but if you watch Amazon they put it on sale for $74.99 with free shipping , that's what I did .


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## workinforwood (May 25, 2010)

I love collet chucks.  Any collet chuck is better than none.  I'm using 5c collets.  No real difference other than that you can get collets with a slightly large hole inside and there's a few other accessory collets not available with other collet styles.  Take good care of your collets, keep them clean and rust free and they will last forever.  They give you a solid and even grip all the way around an object as opposed to a jaw chuck, and they don't do any damage to the outside of what you have chucked...unless you neglect your collets or use them improperly.


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## PenMan1 (May 25, 2010)

+1 on collet chucks. One piece of advice, protect the collets with a piece of masking tape before applying CA finishes will help increase the life of the collets by keeping flying CA away from the chuck. I once inadvertantly glued a collet in place with a CA finishing error.


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## lorbay (May 25, 2010)

PenMan1 said:


> +1 on collet chucks.


  What he said+++++

Lin.


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## cloud (May 25, 2010)

Thanks! Just wanted to make sure.  All seems to say the same thing collet chucks++++ so i'll follow your advice

Cheers


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## Sylvanite (May 25, 2010)

I use a Beall collet chuck and a set of METRIC collets.  I started with SAE collets, but there are some gaps in the set.  With the metric collets, I can grip anything in the full range of the chuck.

Regards,
Eric


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## jskeen (May 25, 2010)

Ok Jeff,  Can you give us the nickel rundown on 5c collets, what kind of chuck you are using them in, how it mounts to the lathe, and all that?  I did look around some, but couldn't really find a 5c chuck that looked like it would work with any normal wood lathe, but I may have just been looking in the wrong place.  

Thanks
james 



workinforwood said:


> I love collet chucks.  Any collet chuck is better than none.  I'm using 5c collets.  No real difference other than that you can get collets with a slightly large hole inside and there's a few other accessory collets not available with other collet styles.  Take good care of your collets, keep them clean and rust free and they will last forever.  They give you a solid and even grip all the way around an object as opposed to a jaw chuck, and they don't do any damage to the outside of what you have chucked...unless you neglect your collets or use them improperly.


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## workinforwood (May 26, 2010)

Mine bolts to the head of the lathe.  There is an adaptor plate that can be used to mount it on a lathe with a threaded spindle. Little machine shop carries the one that I use and the adaptors.  I'm pretty sure you can get it on to a jet mini, but I am also pretty sure that if you did that and flipped the switch then the jet mini would croak.  You would probably want to have at least 1 hp to drive one.  It's heavy duty!  Because 5c is a larger diameter collet, it can be used to hold bigger things, but the difference in maximum capacity is not going to be that much.  The real benefit is being able to use the 5c accessories.  You have collets, you have machinable collets, expandable collets, 3 and 4 jaw chucks, and indexible heads to name a few.  So if you want to switch from a collet grip to a jaw chuck, there is a multitude of jaw chucks that can fit into the collet chuck without removing it from the machine. Then you can get an index head which can be mounted to a drill press or vertical mill.  The index head is a rotary attachment and you can get them really cheap, like as low as $30.  So now you can pull a pen with the collet and slip it into that attachment and drill sequences of holes.  If you opt to get a metal lathe down the road, then this is a great set up.  Then if you want to get into a vertical mill, you can still use the same sets of collets too.  Mind you, collet sizes can be interchangable between machines regardless, so if you have an R8 collet chuck for a lathe you can get an R8 size vertical mill, but you won't have as many accessory options with the R8 size.  You can purchase 5C collets in sets pretty cheap too.  If you have a big wood lathe, then you could definitely run a 5C collet set, but not on a mini lathe.  My lathe struggles to get that collet chuck spinning if it is in high gear and my lathe is no joke.  Compared to the Beall set up, my collet chuck and a set of collets was cheaper. It's not a chuck for everyone...the bottom line is collet chucks are great to have, regardless what one you choose.  If you are planning on upgrading in the future..then think about the tooling you are using now and if you can upgrade that for more than one function. It's nice to only buy a tool once if possible.


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## workinforwood (May 26, 2010)

Oh...building a collet chuck is always an option too!  Lots of people do it using drawbars to close the collet.  Heck..a drawbar system on a wood lathe is just as convenient as any other system, and because a drawbar system pulls a collet right into your headstock, you will get the least amount of run-out.  The further out, the more run-out..run out is basically wobble, and it just makes logical sense.  You just need some metal pipe and some washers and bolts.  You can find all sorts of information online about home made collet closers.  Being a wood lathe or a metal lathe is not the issue.  The limits have to do with your taper size.  You taper is what will close the collet, so you have to purchase a collet set that will close using your MT.  On my metal lathe I bought an actual collet chuck because it was too inconvenient to run a collet closer with gear box and door being so far away and a tighter space to work in.  With a wood lathe, you have wide open access for a draw bar to be much more convenient, more cost effective and more accurate.


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## BRobbins629 (May 26, 2010)

Although I hold most everything on my lathe with collet chucks, I do most of my kitless pens on home made mandrels - which are held in the collet chuck.  One of my first operations after drilling is to cut the internal threads.  I then have a mandrel with the external threads of same thread as the internal and shape the pen while it is screwed onto the mandrel.  With this system, it really doesn't matter what type of chuck is  used to hold the mandrel if the run out is reasonably low or can be adjusted like an undependant 4 jaw chuck.


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## soligen (May 27, 2010)

How much range does each insert for a collet chuck have?  just wonderigng what my range of coverage would be with a set (non metric)


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## ldb2000 (May 27, 2010)

Each collet has a range of aprox 1/32" closing . The metric collets are 1mm range . The collets that come in the sets from PSI and Beall do leave gaps in between each collet but in most cases this is not a problem since you can turn your work to whatever size collets you have .


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## dow (May 28, 2010)

workinforwood said:


> Oh...building a collet chuck is always an option too!  Lots of people do it using drawbars to close the collet.  Heck..a drawbar system on a wood lathe is just as convenient as any other system, and because a drawbar system pulls a collet right into your headstock, you will get the least amount of run-out.  The further out, the more run-out..run out is basically wobble, and it just makes logical sense.  You just need some metal pipe and some washers and bolts.  You can find all sorts of information online about home made collet closers.  Being a wood lathe or a metal lathe is not the issue.  The limits have to do with your taper size.  You taper is what will close the collet, so you have to purchase a collet set that will close using your MT.  On my metal lathe I bought an actual collet chuck because it was too inconvenient to run a collet closer with gear box and door being so far away and a tighter space to work in.  With a wood lathe, you have wide open access for a draw bar to be much more convenient, more cost effective and more accurate.



I had thought about the MT2 drawbar collet sets on ebay like this one, but the largest I can find only go to 1/2" or so.  Any idea if they make larger ones?  

Alternatively, what do you think of the MT2 collet chucks?  The price is much better than the Beall or PSI treaded ones.  I realize that with the threaded ones, you have more depth that you can work with than with the MT2 ones, but I don't know if this is a consideration or not.


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## BRobbins629 (May 28, 2010)

Best ones are this for the collets:
http://cgi.ebay.com/18-PC-PRECISION...m&pt=BI_Tool_Work_Holding&hash=item5192f93cc3

and email 800watt (the seller) for an ER-32 holder with a 2mt.  Can be a little slow to answer but many on this site have bought from him and are very satisfied with quality and performance.


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## Russianwolf (May 28, 2010)

dow said:


> I had thought about the MT2 drawbar collet sets on ebay like this one, but the largest I can find only go to 1/2" or so.  Any idea if they make larger ones?
> 
> Alternatively, what do you think of the MT2 collet chucks?  The price is much better than the Beall or PSI treaded ones.  I realize that with the threaded ones, you have more depth that you can work with than with the MT2 ones, but I don't know if this is a consideration or not.



Another potential drawback is a bit of sawdust in the MT on your headstock can through any MT item out of alignment. Not a big concern when it's a Dead Center, or drive spur, but a with a chuck it could translate more to the finished piece. I've never had the issue on my screw on items, but I guess its possible even with them.


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## jgourlay (May 28, 2010)

*A question*

Perhaps I'm thinking about this all wrong.  No, I know I am, so please help straighten me out.

What I would like to do is drill a blind hole into my blank, and glue in my tube.  Then put a mandrel in that tube, put the mandrel into the collet, then turn the blank to include a "bullet" shaped end.  But, what keeps the blank spinning?  There is no radial outward pressure from the mandrel to prevent the cutting tool from stopping the rotation (while the collet and mandrel rotate on).

On the other hand, I can see chucking a dowel into the collet, and turning my external shape.  But then I have to part off and drill the tube hole.  When I do that, more often than not, the part off will not be PRECISELY axial or burr free.  And, because the "cap" was turned into an "artistic" shape rather than a  Euclidian one, there is no way to part it off, flip it over, chuck it up, and drill the tube hole such that the axis of the tube is collinear with the body of the cap.

What am I missing?


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## BRobbins629 (May 28, 2010)

jgourlay said:


> Perhaps I'm thinking about this all wrong. No, I know I am, so please help straighten me out.
> 
> What I would like to do is drill a blind hole into my blank, and glue in my tube. Then put a mandrel in that tube, put the mandrel into the collet, then turn the blank to include a "bullet" shaped end. But, what keeps the blank spinning? There is no radial outward pressure from the mandrel to prevent the cutting tool from stopping the rotation (while the collet and mandrel rotate on).
> 
> ...


Read Skiprats 0-ring pin chuck tutorial in the library.  Does exactly what you are looking for.


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## ldb2000 (May 28, 2010)

Bruce , I'm just wondering , how many different sizes of the 18 pc set do you actually ever use ? I've got 10 different sizes and only use about 3 or 4 most of the time . Please don't get defensive or upset , I'm honestly wondering , money is tight and the price of the full set with shipping is kinda high . George in another thread said that he never uses 2/3 of the complete set and as I said I only use about 4 on average so I'm honestly wondering what you use the rest of the sizes for ? Will I find a need for them in the future ? The LOML and I have talked about it and she said I could get them if I really needed them , so do I ?


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## BRobbins629 (May 28, 2010)

ldb2000 said:


> Bruce , I'm just wondering , how many different sizes of the 18 pc set do you actually ever use ? I've got 10 different sizes and only use about 3 or 4 most of the time . Please don't get defensive or upset , I'm honestly wondering , money is tight and the price of the full set with shipping is kinda high . George in another thread said that he never uses 2/3 of the complete set and as I said I only use about 4 on average so I'm honestly wondering what you use the rest of the sizes for ? Will I find a need for them in the future ? The LOML and I have talked about it and she said I could get them if I really needed them , so do I ?


Nothing to get upset about; all depends on how you work. From 1/2" to 25/32 I use every one frequently.  Many for holding the variety of rounds I get or turn for drilling on the lathe.  I often turn blanks round between centers before drilling and what ever size I come up with, I will have a collet to fit.  Also use the 1/4 if I do any pen mandrel work, 5/16 to hold some home made mandrels, 1/8 to hold bits if I do any milling on the lathe or to grind bits.  I recently used the 13/32 to hold some custom brass pieces I am making for pen holders.  I use multiple sizes to hold different size rods when I want to make mother of pearl circles for inlays.  I just glue the MOP to the end of the rod and sand to the diameter of the rod.  Many other things that don't come to mind right now, but I really do use them all.  Even wish I had a few more tweener sizes for smaller ranges between.


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## ldb2000 (May 28, 2010)

Thanks Bruce . Now I can show her this and I get to buy more tools !!! yippie !!!


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## Russianwolf (May 28, 2010)

My take is simple. If I buy singles, I always seem to find that I need another one and have to wait for it to arrive. I usually wind up wishing I had bought a set in the end (and usually would have paid less for the set overall).


When I buy a set, I may not use them all. But when the need arises, it's there ready to go. I've rarely regretted buying a set.


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## workinforwood (May 28, 2010)

I have a 32 pc collet set and I don't use the bigger ones too much, but I find myself using all of them from 7/16 down all the way to 1/8.  Anything I can find that is round I'll jam in there.  I was thinking about buying a set of the square collets too..those look like a lot of fun and a whole new world of possibilities.  I wonder if there is octagon shaped collets for holding bolt heads or octogan rods. That would be really cool. I thought I saw some octagon shaped rods somewhere.


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## BRobbins629 (May 28, 2010)

ldb2000 said:


> Thanks Bruce . Now I can show her this and I get to buy more tools !!! yippie !!!


Anytime you need a justification to buy tools, just let me know.  If I can't find a good reason, I'll make one up.:wink:


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## soligen (May 28, 2010)

I found PSI makes a 1 x 8 tpi adapter for the shopsmith, so a chuck is actually a possibility. I was leaning toward a scroll chuck. Now I keep waffling back and forth with a collet chuck.

I tried to drill on the lathe using 2 drill chucks - was a disaster . I will tweak teh setup and try again, but it's pretty obvious drill chucks are not very good at this.


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## ldb2000 (May 28, 2010)

Bruce , I've been looking at the Mills that Grizzly has and she caught me drooling at the pics . Can you give me some ideas ? I tried the "We all need to loose some weight anyway" one but she didn't buy it . :beat-up: :biggrin:


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## BRobbins629 (May 28, 2010)

ldb2000 said:


> Bruce , I've been looking at the Mills that Grizzly has and she caught me drooling at the pics . Can you give me some ideas ? I tried the "We all need to loose some weight anyway" one but she didn't buy it . :beat-up: :biggrin:


Tell her you don't have a prayer to win any of the contests without a mill.  In fact, that's why you lost last time.  If she hurries, maybe there's a shot at the casing contest.


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## ldb2000 (May 28, 2010)

ROFLMAO


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## jgourlay (May 31, 2010)

*Thanks!*

Thanks!



BRobbins629 said:


> Read Skiprats 0-ring pin chuck tutorial in the library.  Does exactly what you are looking for.


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## jtdesigns (Jun 14, 2010)

Okay, here is the deal, I have one of the earliest beall collet chucks and the holes for tightening have become oblong.  Anyone else have this problem.  Also looking for a full set that will fit this body or go with a new chuck completely with collets.  Like the ones someone linked to on ebay but didn't see the chuck body for mt 2


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