# Detail in instructions?



## ed4copies (Sep 7, 2013)

When you get instructions with your pen kits (component sets), what would you like to get out of the instructions?

Do you want to see "clean the tubes" before mounting on bushings?
Do you want to see "if you paint tubes, now is the time"?  And more detail on HOW?
Do you want information on matching grain on a two piece pen?


OR
Do you prefer SIMPLE!!  Just tell you what goes where and let YOU figure out the details.


 *PLEASE VOTE!!!  I AM really interested in YOUR input!!*​ 
Thanks for your input,
Ed


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## beck3906 (Sep 7, 2013)

What about a generic "Beginners Guide to Penmaking" you send to customers for their first 6(?) pen kit orders.  Stop sending it after then as you should know what to do.


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## Marc (Sep 7, 2013)

I like assembly instructions, drill bit and bushing references, and for some of the more complex pens, detail as to the order of the bushings on the mandrel.


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## Joe S. (Sep 7, 2013)

I save the first instruction sheet for a kit, after that I don't really need another one. I think maybe one good detailed sheet for turning pens in general, and one page for assembly and kit info (diameters, tube length, ect.) on request.


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## Chatham PenWorks (Sep 7, 2013)

Just the basics that are specific to those components. You could have a page on your site dedicated to the generalities like cleaning and painting tubes, backpainting and such, and add the link to the direction sheet for those that need it. Most printed directions already have way more repetitive info than is needed by most turners. I've had some come with 2 sheets of instructions, when all that was needed was a blowup diagram that could have fit on half a sheet.


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## Dan Masshardt (Sep 7, 2013)

Generally I only look at the instructions the first time I make a kit.   If then.  

after that its mostly a waste of your time to copy it and include it (for me)

If I do go back to it, it's for info on bushing size and possibly drill size. 

Please include the actual measurements of the bushings.  And their location on the  pen tube when turning.   (This is one thing that PSI does right - excellent). 

On the flip side, I also like "the biggest bushing goes on the cap end, smallest on nib...

Drill bit size is important.  (Alternate drill bit sizes would be cool when appropriate.  Ie "some people prefer to use x size drill bit for a tighter fit."

What I would LOVE would be an index or business card size with the diagram of the pen with the bushing sizes and drill bit sizes noted.  I'm not expecting anyone to ever do that for me (I could do it myself), but that would be really cool.


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## Russknan (Sep 7, 2013)

What Dan said! Russ


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## gimpy (Sep 7, 2013)

I like to look at pictures


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## SteveG (Sep 7, 2013)

What Russ said that Dan said.
Steve


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## keithbyrd (Sep 7, 2013)

Steve said that Russ said that Dan said .....  I agree


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## Lenny (Sep 7, 2013)

I think providing instructions online that users can print out for themselves would be a win-win. Less paper for everyone. Instructions could be available this way in a variety of forms from simple to a complete course in Penturning 101! :biggrin:
Just as long as the links are easy to find. :wink:


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## Joe S. (Sep 7, 2013)

What Keith said what Steve said what Russ said.... What did Dan say again?


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## MichaelD (Sep 7, 2013)

Bushing and tube measurements and bushing placements.  Yeah, I guess what Dan said.


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## Fatdawg (Sep 7, 2013)

The kit instruction that are provided now are just fine for me. I look at them when using that specific kit the first time or two. Any other information I need or may need for future reference I jot down in my note book and I have a spedsheet similar to the one we have here in the library. It only contains the information for the kits I frequently turn and includes drill and bushing measurements.


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## flyitfast (Sep 7, 2013)

Ed,
What he said that the other guy said the next guy said that the first guy said 

I agree that three things will satisfy me.
1. Bushing ID, actual sizes, and placement on which barrel end. These along with tube size.
2. Picture of parts and placement. I like the idea of a business card or 3x5 with parts placement and bushing/tube sizes.
3. Any unique instructions, such as need for tenon, suggested sequence of assembly, etc.

Thanks for asking,
gordon


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## Pioneerpens (Sep 7, 2013)

Maybe a drop down where the customer can check yes or no for instructions.  Like how you have for the refill upgrade.


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## walshjp17 (Sep 7, 2013)

I do keep the instructions in a file in case it has been a long time since I made a particular kit.  If you take Woodcraft's instructions as one example, drop the first page -- it is pretty much boilerplate.  The meat is on page two.  As another example, Constant does a good job of keeping to the basics.

Having a link either in the confirmation message (as noted here by one poster) or on the web page describing the kit (as CSUSA, WC and others do) or a link to all instructions as some do would be the ideal solution -- assuming you have a PC/Mac, iPad/tablet, smartphone with you when you are planning/working on a kit.  Saves paper and gives you clear copies to view.

Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner


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## dtswebb (Sep 7, 2013)

Dan nailed it for me - bushing sizes (and which bushing goes where), tube sizes, drill bit size(s) and a picture of the components laid out as they should be assembled.  I keep an archive of instructions and supplement them with handwritten notes with info not provided on the instructions.


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## Exabian (Sep 7, 2013)

keithbyrd said:


> Steve said that Russ said that Dan said .....  I agree



I agree as well.


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## ssajn (Sep 7, 2013)

I normally don't look at the instructions.

 I like the idea of having the instructions and other info and recommendations available online.

On your check out page have the option to not get instructions. If you have them check a box to receive instructions and they don't someone is going to complain you didn't send them.


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## rcnowland (Sep 7, 2013)

:wink:





beck3906 said:


> What about a generic "Beginners Guide to Penmaking" you send to customers for their first 6(?) pen kit orders.  Stop sending it after then as you should know what to do.


Great Idea!:wink:


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## Lenny (Sep 7, 2013)

rcnowland said:


> :wink:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sorry but playing devils advocate: What says the 7th order won't be for a totally different kit requiring different information. 
Seems like trying to keep the number of customer orders straight would be difficult and wouldn't necessarily be an accurate indication of the buyer's need.


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## ed4copies (Sep 7, 2013)

We do have an advantage, in that we can have several levels of instructions on the website.  What I am learning here is that I should have a couple different types of instructions---at present the poll is a small sampling of people, but it is breaking close to 50-50.

In the real world, a small flat rate box doesn't have much room for "add-ons".  So, we will probably have a postcard with the links.  We shall see what the numbers look like tomorrow, when more people weigh in!!!


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## Tom T (Sep 7, 2013)

I like what Lenny said about easy to find on line instruction.  I have my iPad on the work bench and pull some of them up on line.  Because I forgot where I put the instructions.

You never know the level of your turner so more complete is better.  I like the idea of the boiler plat on one side or page and the details for that pen on the on the next page or other side.

One issue I have with all the instructions I try to use is this;  when they show you the lay out in the drawing for the mandrel they do not always make it clear which end is the head stock of the drawing.  The they some times se to generic a drawing of the bushing or the barrel.  I have not done a fountain pen yet because the parts they talk about in the instructions are hard to figure out from the parts in the kit.

Ed please take a picture of all the parts laying on the work bench in the order they are turned and the another photo showing the pen assembled and the maybe a blow up diagram naming the parts you can see and can not see.  May suppliers people assume us newer guys understand what to do and how to assemble.  I do not know what connects to the nib for sure or which end of what is connects to the nib and how to put the ink in the thing that holds the ink.  Or do I just stick the end on, or is that the ink tub I just use it and fill nothing.
Wow that was a lot.  Bottom line true photos of the product we are asking and true photos of the way it goes together.  And by the way in each picture and description use the same name for the part some people do not.  Also a clear close up video on line of how to put it together would be good.

If you have better nibs let us know I hate buying what I think is good but it is not.  Because I put a lot of work into each pen.  It's like thinking a WC slim line is a good pen because it has gold on the parts.  Only to find out it is a priced to sell pen.  And the gold is real real thin.
Please feel free to email me the instructions you are planning to use and I will tell you want a newer turner thinks.  That is newer not totally new.  I have turned 75 pens or so.  I like the euro's with the tenon.  I have done a bunch of bolt action.  By the way your blanks and kits were great on those.  And slim lines.  And several others.  A few gents and Jr gents roller balls.  Some true stone.

I am looking for some really nice Marine corp blanks if you have some.  Several different ones to choose from would be nice.
Sorry it's so long but you asked for opinions.


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## switch62 (Sep 7, 2013)

On line kit instructions in PDF format (1 page). Should have 
Drill sizes, 
Bushing measurments
Bushing placement diagram
Assembly diagram (occassionally you can be unsure where a part goes)
Any special instructions or "watch out for ..."​I print out a copy and place in a folder in the shed, saves me looking it up online all the time.

Other information such as potential problems and solutions should be in an FAQ for each kit.

Instructional and "How to " can be on the website. Videos are good. I learnt how to make a pen mostly from youtube and kit seller videos.


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## Smitty37 (Sep 7, 2013)

As little as possible.  assembling a pen is in reality a pretty darn simple task and that's all the instructions are for.  Drill sizes, tube diameters, recommended blank size and bushing sizes should be there.  

The other steps, drilling, gluing tubes, turning, finishing, polishing, buffing are all variables just like segmenting, closed end, and other techniques that are personal preferences of the turner and should learned elsewhere.


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## beck3906 (Sep 7, 2013)

Lenny said:


> rcnowland said:
> 
> 
> > :wink:
> ...



 we don't need painting instructions in every pen kit instruction sheet.  I also don't need a discussion about the types of glues and setting times.  We do need the order of bushings, part placement, and any tips to fit the parts together.


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## Joe S. (Sep 7, 2013)

Tom T said:


> One issue I have with all the instructions I try to use is this;  when they show you the lay out in the drawing for the mandrel they do not always make it clear which end is the head stock of the drawing.
> 
> The they some times se to generic a drawing of the bushing or the barrel.  I have not done a fountain pen yet because the parts they talk about in the instructions are hard to figure out from the parts in the kit.
> 
> ...



A: it doesn't matter which end the headstock is, the blank will be spinning either way.

Whole thing about fountain pens: all instructions I've seen make it pretty clear how to put it together, even if you need to _think_ about it a little. It will all make sense. Anything beyond getting the pen together would be overkill (IMO), it would be the users responsibility (IMO) to learn how to deal with ink and nibs and stuff like that, the internet makes that easy to do. If you make pens, I think it's important to know _why_ the parts are how they are, not just the order they go in.


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## Charlie_W (Sep 8, 2013)

Just one more thing sort of mentioned earlier, please have all diagrams of bushings, pen components, etc be facing the same way on the directions and on all pen kit directions. Same-o/same-o...no switch-erooo. Nib or cap to the right or left...pick one and label it.
I don't need a heads tock end listed as some like to turn one way or the other. Just consistent diagrams.

Thanks for asking.


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## ctubbs (Sep 8, 2013)

I probably missed it, but for those that do not use bushings, how about real bushing diameters?  Many great ideas here and a big thank you to Ed for his thoughtfulness.

Charles


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## randyrls (Sep 8, 2013)

I normally print a 1 page instruction from the web site on paper and it goes in my kit folder, in alphabetical order.  I often find the best fit isn't the drill bit suggested, and I write that information on the page for both acrylic and wood (not the same bit).  I expect tube length, inside and outside diameter, and bushing dimensions.  I diagram of how the kit goes together is nice.

Possibly you could provide a quick set of instructions with a link to a more detailed set on your web site.  If you did a TinyURL of some sort it could be very short.


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## darrin1200 (Sep 8, 2013)

I think a one page pen specific instruction. 

List the tooling
List the bushing placement.
Show how the pen parts go together.
If there is other specific info known about a particular kit, that should also be included.

There should be a way to opt out of receiving instructions with your order. I generally keep the first copy I receive on file, or go online if i loose it. When i get copies in subsequent orders, they go straight to recycling.

General pen turning information can be made available on the vendors website. Quite often I will go back o a sight just to browse the available info. You never know when you will learn something new.

Just my two cents.


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## ed4copies (Sep 8, 2013)

ctubbs said:


> I probably missed it, but for those that do not use bushings, how about real bushing diameters?  Many great ideas here and a big thank you to Ed for his thoughtfulness.
> 
> Charles



I'd love to take credit for just being magnanimous in my "customer care"!!
The truth is, I was writing instructions for the new pen kits and realized how much "other information" I have incorporated.  This makes the instructions thicker and more difficult to stuff in a small flat (which is a large percentage of our orders).  SO, I wondered if you all WANT all that information----hence, the question!!  Looks like half do, and half don't!!

How about a postcard, giving you a link to the instructions on-line and NO instructions in the box----leaving more room for products!!!


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## maxwell_smart007 (Sep 8, 2013)

How about giving customers the option, like a check-box when you order - 'if you would like to include a printed set of  basic instructions with your order, click here', if you need extremely detailed instructions (no charge), click here - otherwise please find the instructions online here (link)....


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## edstreet (Sep 8, 2013)

ed4copies said:


> ctubbs said:
> 
> 
> > I probably missed it, but for those that do not use bushings, how about real bushing diameters?  Many great ideas here and a big thank you to Ed for his thoughtfulness.
> ...




With no doubt the customer base will be a very diverse skilled group.  With the various video postings, how-to's, web resources and the like it would be more advantageous to put something like a web link on something like a business card, or even add it to the invoice.  On that link would be more how to guides. detailed instructions, kit instructions and various other gold mines resources.  That way everyone could benefit, from the skilled to those who want to cut down on paper to those just starting the craft.

The only concern is how many reads the packing slip that is in the order.  So perhaps a second line on the web link label that goes on blanks would be in order.


Also on that note you could also do 'contest' and solicit user participation in helping out with articles, how-to's and even video's.


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## Fatdawg (Sep 8, 2013)

I spent some time this morning looking back through some instruction sheets from various suppliers. All of the important info seems to be there including drill sizes, blank lengths, bushing placement and assembly pictures. 

I also looked at the instructions Ed did for the Diplomat. He pretty much nailed it with this  "A caliper is a good investment and can improve the quality of ALL your turned pens.  But, you can use the above as a rough guide and achieve a pretty good result!!" 

If you use caliper you can easily get all the other dimensions you are looking for such as inside dia. of the tube, tube length and the dimensions of the fitting. Also by measuring the components you will get a better fit and do not necessarily the bushings.


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## MillerTurnings (Sep 8, 2013)

I have no problem in downloading a set of instructions online, BUT not all suppliers put them online. Maybe those kits are for the more experienced turners and not us beginners.


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## OKLAHOMAN (Sep 8, 2013)

As 99.99% of your buying is online through one of the online vendors, you are using a computer, so why don't we put a link to the instructions on the label of the component set you purchase and you can download them if wanted.


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## Dan Masshardt (Sep 8, 2013)

OKLAHOMAN said:


> As 99.99% of your buying is online through one of the online vendors, you are using a computer, so why don't we put a link to the instructions on the label of the component set you purchase and you can download them if wanted.



An interesting thing is that the only brick and mortar store I ever buy kits at doesn't have printed instructions!   You have to go online to get them.


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## OKLAHOMAN (Sep 8, 2013)

Dan Masshardt said:


> OKLAHOMAN said:
> 
> 
> > As 99.99% of your buying is online through one of the online vendors, you are using a computer, so why don't we put a link to the instructions on the label of the component set you purchase and you can download them if wanted.
> ...



If we as vendors put the link to instructions on all of the component sets we sell on our labels would that not solve this problem? No picking of instructions to fold, pack and take room away from product. If it works for the brick and mortar store it surs as heck can wok for us.


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## kovalcik (Sep 9, 2013)

I would rather have links to the instructions in the confirmation email than printed on a card in the box. (Eyesight is going and I hate to type.) Most important to me is for vendors to to have very easy access to instructions online. As long as the kit has the company name and the kit name clearly marked on the lablel, I should be able to find what I need online. Also, keep old instructions online in case I find an  old kit that has been discontinued in a drawer.


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## Buzzzz4 (Sep 9, 2013)

I as well like the instructions on line. I lose the paper anyway.


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## BayouPenturner (Sep 10, 2013)

basic instructions are fine, the current sheets are detailed enough.


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## NittanyLion (Sep 10, 2013)

I agree that it is helpful to have bushing measurements on the instruction sheet.  This is all I really use it for unless its a new kit.


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## Ligget (Sep 10, 2013)

Online instructions with just the basic info suits me, I can then print one for my folder that I keep in workshop and use for reference.


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## Justturnin (Sep 10, 2013)

Besides the Drill bits the only info I look for is the exploded view of how the components go together.


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## Donnie Kennedy (Sep 10, 2013)

I think that the instructions from the various manufactures is fine... there is room for improvement, and I have misses installing a trim ring or 3 over the past few years , but what I would like to see added to the instructions are generic instructions for the various kits that show how to install the flipping refills. It would be nice to be able to include that with each pen. If my photography skills didn't suck so bad I'd produce the instructions myself, but I'd rather copy, paste, and print


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## ed4copies (Sep 10, 2013)

Donnie,

I have considered putting information in with products, geared toward your customer.

The reason I have NOT done this---do you want your "competitor pen maker" giving out the exact same card YOU do???  

One of the ways you differentiate yourself in selling pens is the "information" you can provide---if I provide it, where is your differentiation???

Ed

Edit in:  Let me be clear, I AM open to doing it!!  All feedback is taken into consideration!!


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## Donnie Kennedy (Sep 10, 2013)

ed4copies said:


> Donnie,
> 
> I have considered putting information in with products, geared toward your customer.
> 
> ...



The point is well taken and since you put it that way I do agree. I was looking at this through my practical perspective in a low volume and very local market glasses, so I wasn't thinking like the guys who do this for a living. 

I guess I needs to find a photographer.


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## sbrant (Sep 12, 2013)

I would like basic instructions with just a very small area regarding any "issues" that individual have had and how to avoid them.  I keep all my printed instructions in a binder for future reference but online would be helpful also.


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