# CA chips



## Moonshine (Sep 10, 2012)

Hi All,

Just completed my 13th and 14th pens but on both of them the CA chips or cracks when I separate the blanks from the bushings.  It there any way to prevent the CA from bonding to the bushings?

Pen 1: Gold Cigar with Red Ivory - CA-BLO finish
Pen 2: Gold Patriot with Mukwa (sapwood?) - CA-BLO Finish (may be another sort of wood - it comes from an old carving I bought in Zimbabwe in 1995)

Cheers
Jon


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## philipff (Sep 10, 2012)

Put wax on the ends of the tubes and bushings before setting them together.  --give that a try and if it does not work, come back.  Phil


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## rizaydog (Sep 10, 2012)

Another option, if you forget the wax, is use a thin parting tool and cut the ca off the bushings.  Just be careful not to cut the pen.  I do this before final sanding and polishing.


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## Mike8850 (Sep 10, 2012)

With the lathe off I score between the bushing and blank with a sharp X-acto knife.
Mike


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## rherrell (Sep 10, 2012)

Moonshine said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Just completed my 13th and 14th pens but on both of them the CA chips or cracks when I separate the blanks from the bushings. It there any way to prevent the CA from bonding to the bushings?
> 
> ...


 
Don't use them.:biggrin:

I use bushings to do all my shaping and to get "close" ,.020" or so, to the final diameter. I then remove the bushings and do all my sanding and prep between centers. I make my own centers out of Delrin and use a revolving Jacobs chuck in the tailstock.


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## edstreet (Sep 10, 2012)

take the bushings off to put CA on


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## mdburn_em (Sep 10, 2012)

edstreet said:


> take the bushings off to put CA on



+1.


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## jcm71 (Sep 10, 2012)

Concur with the wax.  Turn with the metal bushings.  Finish with Delrin bushings.  As you get more experienced, learn to turn between centers without a mandrel and without bushings. ( I'm not at the turning without bushing stage yet).   Also, I have NEVER had a problem separating a bushing by using a disassembling rod down the opposite end and just tapping it out.  Works every time.

PS  Disassemble the second pen and refinish it.   Good luck.


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## switch62 (Sep 10, 2012)

Try using delrin bushings or these finishing bushings also made of delrin but for use on a mandrel.

I made my own out of HDPE and they work very well.

Now when I'm ready to do the CA, I swap to these. With the larger pen tubes you can just wriggle the cones and the CA snaps at the cone. There is less CA where the cone contacts the inside edge of the brass tube. On the 7mm tubes the cone will touch the wood but I score the CA on the cone and it comes away easily.

You may need to sand the ends as you can get build up of the CA on the edge. I usually remove the tubes from the cones and dry sand the ends with 400 and/or 800 wet and dry (depends on the thickness of build up), then put it all back for sanding and polishing. Worst thing is doing all the sanding and polishing, and then cracking/snaping the CA finish. The other reason for sanding the ends is if you have a build up of CA on the ends when you press the fittings you can crack or lift the CA.

I get a build up of CA on the bushes, I just throw them in a sealed jar of acetone overnight. The CA dissolves, good as new.


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## Ted iin Michigan (Sep 10, 2012)

I use the parting tool method. It needs to be wicked sharp and I slow the lathe down to a crawl, but it really worked well for me. Nice to see there are multiple solutions to this annoying issue.


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## JCochrun (Sep 10, 2012)

I'm making bolt action bullet pens so I don't have the bushings to turn between centers.  I use the mandrel to turn the blank and sand it.  I but it between centers without bushings to do the CA finish.  It takes a little more time but it's worth it to me.

Jim


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## Moonshine (Sep 11, 2012)

Hi All,
Thanks very much for all your suggestions - will try the wax option initially (Candle wax... Floor Wax...?) but longer term finishing the pens between centers, one barrel at a time, seems to make sense.
Cheers :beer:
Jon


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## edstreet (Sep 11, 2012)

Essentially what you are doing is creating surface coating that CA will *NOT* stick to.  There are a good number of items it will not stick to, to give you some idea ask yourself this question, why does CA glue not stick to the inside of the bottle?


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## soundman (Sep 11, 2012)

there are anumber of choices.

 you can be more carefull about how you apply your CA.....I work ith a cotton bud and try not to over apply.

If you seal the ends of ya blanks with CA after you have done ya first pass with the pen trimmer or whatever then give another light touch, there is less tendancy for the CA to wick from the face and out the end of the blank.
Sealing the ends of ya pen blanks and a light retrim before you mount up will give a crisper edge where the finished tube meets the bands and stuff as well.

As mentioned some form of plastic bush, some use ascetal, HDPE, PTFE, nylon or whatever they can get their hands on any of the high density or greasy plastics should do the trick.

If ya going to wax something I'd tend to wax the bush rather than the end of the pen blank, that way you are not contaminating what you are trying to finish.

hope this helps
cheers


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## island03z (Sep 18, 2012)

I'm new at this hobby and I really want to get the CA finish right.  My problem is once I get the barrel separated from the bushings I end up with a lip on the edge of the barrel.  It seems like no matter what I do, as soon as I touch it with a grinder or sand paper or razor blade, the CA either chips or lifts.  Im using Stick Fast CA finish kit and this method 

tried the wax on the bearings too but it seems to also contaminate the edge because I'll get milky spots on the edges of the barrels before I've even separated them yet.

I usually finish with 600 grit paper before applying the finish but I've tried as low as 400grit before I start to get scratch marks in the finish.  My only thoughts is maybe there is no mechanical bonding for the adhesion.  Any thoughts?


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## dansills (Sep 18, 2012)

Two choices ... Penturners products.com to get delrin 'magic for finishing' or better method is to get a dead center for headstock and live center for tail stock.  Use these to chuck the pen barrels only without bushings (after you have turned it to size) and apply finish that way - this is commonly referred to as TBC or turn between centers.


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## Mike8850 (Sep 18, 2012)

island03z said:


> I'm new at this hobby and I really want to get the CA finish right.  My problem is once I get the barrel separated from the bushings I end up with a lip on the edge of the barrel.  It seems like no matter what I do, as soon as I touch it with a grinder or sand paper or razor blade, the CA either chips or lifts.  Im using Stick Fast CA finish kit and this method
> 
> tried the wax on the bearings too but it seems to also contaminate the edge because I'll get milky spots on the edges of the barrels before I've even separated them yet.
> 
> I usually finish with 600 grit paper before applying the finish but I've tried as low as 400grit before I start to get scratch marks in the finish.  My only thoughts is maybe there is no mechanical bonding for the adhesion.  Any thoughts?




I lay a piece of 1000 grit paper on my lathe bed and gently rub the ends of the blank till the lips are gone.
Hope this helps.
Mike


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## Fishinbo (Sep 18, 2012)

I cannot seem to choose which one is my favorite.  The pink one is looking precious and pretty.  The Gold Patriot is just  sophistication and class captured by a pen.


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## soundman (Sep 18, 2012)

island03z said:


> I'm new at this hobby and I really want to get the CA finish right.  My problem is once I get the barrel separated from the bushings I end up with a lip on the edge of the barrel.  It seems like no matter what I do, as soon as I touch it with a grinder or sand paper or razor blade, the CA either chips or lifts.  Im using Stick Fast CA finish kit and this method
> 
> tried the wax on the bearings too but it seems to also contaminate the edge because I'll get milky spots on the edges of the barrels before I've even separated them yet.
> 
> I usually finish with 600 grit paper before applying the finish but I've tried as low as 400grit before I start to get scratch marks in the finish.  My only thoughts is maybe there is no mechanical bonding for the adhesion.  Any thoughts?




Looking at the video you link, I am not surprised you and others are having an issue.

all this having to cut the blanks off and retouching sharp edges, has knobs on it in my opinion.

Seriuosly try this.
apply your CA with a cotton bud (Q tip I think you call them) ( a little cotton tip on a stick)..it may not be as fast but there is a whole lot less CA running arround.

Only put as much CA on the end of the coton bud as it will carry and enough to wet out and flow.

I use only thin CA.

I can pretty well keep the CA off my bushings.

I may not be looking for the amount of build that other are..BUT I can manage a good hard glossy finish.

so here is what I do.
If the blank is a bit unco-operative, punky, tear out in burl, pine cones whatever, I apply CA to the whole blank with the lathe turned off using a cotton bud.
I then do my final cuts and sand to 600..if the timber is being unco-operative I may sand to a little as 250 and apply a little more before continuing.

At some stage I will always take the tubes off the lathe and seal the ends of the tubes (the cut ends and the face immediately adjacent to the ends) with CA, let it set and give the lightest touch with a sharp clean pen trimmer.

I then remount, and apply the first coat with the lathe turned off, stroking up and down the blank and doing the ends by rotating the spindle by hand.

This coat takes the longest to go off, AND I avoid accelerator unless I realy must....if I do use accelerator I wait for the glue to flash off a little.

I sand this coat from 250 up to 600 again....we have just filled and sealed the grain.

after sanding you must wipe with a clean dry cloth to remove any dust, failure to do so will stop the CA flowing.

I then appy a coat by putting as much CA as the cotton bud will hold and run a single pass from one end of the blank to the other with the lathe running slow.
move as fast as the CA will flow.
Get it right and it will run on pretty evenly.
 get it right and you will get a single pass down two blanks from a single load on the cotton bud....if the cotton but is still not off, adding a second drop for the second blank and turning the bud to a fresh section may be needed    resist the urge to go back over where you have just applied.

Sand if you like or if it has come up lumpy and go again when the CA is off.

If there are lumps or bumps or drips deal with them before you go on.

this only works if you are applying on a smooth surface..so you will probably sand some between each coat..as the film develops you will have to go back to less coarser grits and you will have to sand less...light touch with the sanding and always sharp paper.

Once I am happy with the build and evenness I run up the grits dry ( light touch remember) to 1200 and then to either EEE Ultrashine or automotive micro abrasive compound.

It is best to work with the bud down and the stick up, that way CA does not run down the stick to your fingers.

This may seem different and perhaps fiddley......But I apply less CA, I sand less of it off, i find less need for accelerator and I have never glued a blank into a bush so it would not come out...I do not have the need to cut the blanks off the bushings.
Mostly I don't get sharp edges and never get chips on the ends.

I generally only do 5 or 6 coats (may be I count my coats different), but you can do as many as you like.

OH
I generally put the slightest chamfer on the ends of all blanks prior to end sealing.


Another thing that works and I do it often, is after the primary sand and before finishing, take the tubes off the mandrel and put smaller bushes on so the bushes are not flush with the face of the tubes. if these tubes are nylon, acetal or HDPE so much the better.

try it...tell me how it goes.

It may be slower and more fiddly...but all the best finishes go on in thin coats

hope it helps.

cheers


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## weasel1219 (Sep 18, 2012)

Moonshine said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Just completed my 13th and 14th pens but on both of them the CA chips or cracks when I separate the blanks from the bushings.  It there any way to prevent the CA from bonding to the bushings?
> 
> ...


Used two methods very well that have worked for me...give the bushings a shot WD 40 and also use a parting tool to separate the bushing from blank if you don't want to use WD 40....avoid WD 40 on very porous woods, like spalted box elder.  Otherwise either will work very well,  Good Luck


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## island03z (Sep 21, 2012)

Good tips, I'll try them and see what happens


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## island03z (Nov 15, 2012)

Well after months of having the lathe collect dust I finally gave this another try.  Thanks to whoever suggested wiping the wood down with acetone prior to adding the finish.  This made a night and day difference.  I've never been able to make the CA turn out well on mesquite but this seemed to do the trick.  It sticks a lot better to the wood and doesnt chip off.  Ive had one or two have layer separation at the tips but i would put some thin CA on a paper towel and dab the ends on it and it would wick up and seal it again and it works really well.


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## KBs Pensnmore (Nov 16, 2012)

I use 6 paper washers on each end, in between blank and bush, after I turn and sand, then CA finish, I use an Exacto to cut through the CA, then use a sander on the end of a pen mill to clean up the paper.
Regards
Kryn


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## SoloWorx (Nov 25, 2012)

Guys. Great tips. Always hard to choose which to use. I have been hit or miss with ca. My method (assuming I don't forget a step). 

1 turn and sand to 600
2 wipe with DA while at 500 rpm allow to dry
3 use masking tape - 1 wrap around bushings. 
4 at 500 rpm apply thin CA to blank then with paper towel rubbing back and forth about 6-10 times 
5 spray with accelerator. 
6 repeat 12 times (use to do like 18) don't see difference with less. 
7 stop lathe peel off wrap of tape (I used to turn lathe by hand with razor blade to score blank to bushing. 
8 wet sand starting at 320 grit 1700 rpm until I feel all resistance gone and sounds like less being removed. Then wet sand to 6k grit don't really know if that helps
9 use one step plastic polish
10 pray

My largest issue is the edge chips. Not sure if it is aggravated by the tape or the end sanding too coarse or lack of ca sealing the blank ends. I also get chipping after pressing telling me I  didn't really clean the edges right or the ID has buildup and I'm too nervous to use a trimmer on a finished blank. 

Thoughts or comments?

Too many coats?  
Should I use BLO? 
Stop using tape?  
Should I wax the bushings? 
Not sand the edges to lift the end ca? 
Seal ends after turning but before finishing, if so how you prevent ca buildup inside tube?
Does the ca eventually degrade from use with skin oils and or sweat?  
Does it crack from stress or dropping on desk?
Where do you get paper washers?  

Thanks guys. Sorry if this is a thread jack. But my issues are fairly parallel.


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## plantman (Nov 25, 2012)

edstreet said:


> take the bushings off to put CA on


 
  If you take the bushings off, how are you going to turn the blank on the lathe to put the CA on ???  Jim S


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## leehljp (Nov 25, 2012)

plantman said:


> edstreet said:
> 
> 
> > take the bushings off to put CA on
> ...



That is called turning between centers or TBC. Don't use bushings for this and therefore no sticking, breaking or chipping. Also, another necessity with TBC is the use of calipers for measuring sizes. When calipers are used instead of bushings for sizing, a more professional sized fitting is made. 

A secondary problem with bushings is that the scraper or which ever tool invariably touches the bushings when turning, reducing the size each time it touches while turning. And with sanding to size with the bushings on - the sand paper sands the bushings minutely'. IN this case, bushings become consumable items, not permanent items. The size wears down after 20 - 40 turnings. Sizing becomes a problem. BUT use calipers, instead of bushings for sizing and no problem. Use TBC for finish sizing and finishing and bushings could last a life time.


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## Bowl Slinger (Nov 26, 2012)

This is what works for me: I use automotive wax on the bushings. Make sure the you allow the wax to dry and then wipe it off before you place your parts on the mandrel. Turn the blanks and apply your desired coats of CA then score it with a sharp knife right next to the blank/bushing line while the lathe is running slow. Touch the bushing with your parting tool and the ca will fly off leaving a nice crisp ledge. Sand to size and then polish. If the CA does happen to separate from the blank after you pull the bushings then lightly touch the end of the blank with thin CA, it will wick into the crack. You can then use your barrel trimmer / pen mill to shave the CA back to the tube end.


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## plantman (Nov 27, 2012)

leehljp said:


> plantman said:
> 
> 
> > edstreet said:
> ...


 
:bananen_smilies104:Thank you Hank for explaining why you take the bushings off, and what you do after that. You see the purpose of me asking the question in the first place is that the answer " take the bushings off to put CA on " is only half an answer. I have been making pens for a long time, and I know what the answers are , or most of them anyway. On the other hand the person who asked the question, or the new people on this site who are just starting out don't. Maybe he is now standing in front of his lathe with 2 bushings in one hand and two blanks in the other wondering " how do I turn the blanks with no bushings '? l am turning on a mandlel and I don't have a live center for the back of my lathe or anything to drive the blank without damageing it on the front. And he also may not know what TBC means yet. When we answer a question, we should think of it as coming from someone that knows nothing and wants to learn everything. Ask yourself. How do I preform this task? Why do I do it this way? Are there other ways to do it? Is there information out there somewhere that explains or shows how this is done? My answer would have been as follows. If you are going to use a mandrel to turn pens, make yourself a set of tapered Delrin bushings. One size fits all tubes, and CA does not stick to them !! Second. Turn your pens between centers. It is much easier, more accurate, and you don't have to worry about wobbel on a bent mandrel. Look in the library for tips on doing any of these processes. Ed has wonderful videos on basic pen turning as well as do others. I know I always give long winded threads, but I want to convay whatever I have learned to people so that they don't have to make the same mistakes I did starting out without the help of the people on this site !! Jim S


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