# Doctors Wood Shop Pen Finish Tutorial



## mikespenturningz

Ok I have been doing allot of pen finishing with this finish. I have been telling folks about it for months. I really like this finish and have burned through an entire bottle of it and am on my second. I have done allot of experimenting and will recount below what I do in hopes that it will help others who are allergic to CA like I am. I have also had allot of people ask  me so here it is this is what I do.

1. Finish turning a pen then go into sanding mode
2. 240 grit dry sand I always use forward and reverse
3. 320 grit dry sand in reverse then switch to forward and sand some more
4. 400 forward then reverse
5. 600 reverse and then switch to forward and sand some more. This is the end of dry sanding. I use Abranet so I don't wet sand with it.
6. 4000 MM wet sand with Walnut oil forward then reverse
7. 6000 MM wet sand with Walnut oil reverse then forward
8. 8000 MM wet sand with Walnut oil forward then reverse
10. 12000 MM wet sand with Walnut Oil reverse then forward.
11. Use paper towel to really heat things up and buff the walnut oil. It will set the oil.
12. Fold up a paper towel and add a nice drop of Doctors Wood Shop Pen finish on it and apply to the blank don't buff yet I use about 1100 rpm for this
13. Reverse the lathe and apply another drop and apply. Now buff with the other end of t paper towel. 
14 Apply another drop to the paper towel I use exactly the same spot every time so I get a soaked spot on the towel this is important and you will see why later.
15. Set the lathe to forward and apply another drop to the same spot again and apply then buff out with the same spot on the other end of the paper towel. You are smoothing the paper towel and it seems to do a better and better job on the finish.
16. Reverse the lathe again and apply another drop and apply and buff
17. Forward again and apply another drop and buff. By now you have noticed that when you apply you see a nice shiny blank but when you buff it dulls just a bit. You need to keep repeating this procedure until you see very little difference between buff and apply once this is achieved.
18. I use the wet spot that I created and leave the lathe in forward and speed things up just a bit maybe 2000 rpms and give a few more applications with what is in the wet spot and buff between. You should see very little difference between the wet and buffed when done. Make sure the last time that you buff that you heat things up a bit to make sure all is set. 

I find that with really hard woods you won't need as many applications but with softer woods you may need more. I hope this little tutorial helps you out. Here is a link to Doctors Wood Shop Pen Finish

I hope this helps you all.


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## jttheclockman

Man that is alot of work. Not all people have reverse on their lathes. I know I do not. 

My question is how about those that are allergic to walnut oils???

Also is there residue left on there when you go to sell the pen and the person who buys it is allergic to walnut oils. Just thinking out loud.


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## BSea

Thanks Mike!  

You know what, I think I'll try this tomorrow.:biggrin:


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## mikespenturningz

I am a pen maker not a scientist. The guy that makes this is a chemist though. If you don't have reverse you can turn the blank around. This is how I finish my pens and I am sharing it in hopes it will help others. There are lots of important reasons to use reverse I am sorry if you don't have it but those that do can achieve an excellent finish that I have not duplicated in forward only. I made lots of pens using my shopsmith and only had forward. For instance when you apply the finish in one direction you fill grain areas in the wood but you only get the finish in one side of the grain. When you reverse you get the other side of the grain and so on this leaves you with a much smoother finish than one direction only. I do put my finishing technique in my sales add so it is publicized that it has Walnut oil in the finish. Walnut oil in 1 of only 2 oils that actually set up and dry according to the Chemist that developed this finish. 



jttheclockman said:


> Man that is alot of work. Not all people have reverse on their lathes. I know I do not.
> 
> My question is how about those that are allergic to walnut oils???
> 
> Also is there residue left on there when you go to sell the pen and the person who buys it is allergic to walnut oils. Just thinking out loud.


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## RMayoIII

I've been wondering how your pens always have an amazing finish to them. Thanks for explaining the mystery! I don't have reverse on my lathe either but I still think I'm going to try out done of that doctors wood finish.


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## jttheclockman

mikespenturningz said:


> I am a pen maker not a scientist. The guy that makes this is a chemist though. If you don't have reverse you can turn the blank around. This is how I finish my pens and I am sharing it in hopes it will help others. There are lots of important reasons to use reverse I am sorry if you don't have it but those that do can achieve an excellent finish that I have not duplicated in forward only. I made lots of pens using my shopsmith and only had forward. I do put my finishing technique in my sales add so it is publicized that it has Walnut oil in the finish.
> 
> 
> 
> jttheclockman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Man that is alot of work. Not all people have reverse on their lathes. I know I do not.
> 
> My question is how about those that are allergic to walnut oils???
> 
> Also is there residue left on there when you go to sell the pen and the person who buys it is allergic to walnut oils. Just thinking out loud.
Click to expand...

 

Mike I mean nothing by my statement and I realize you are stating how you have come to use this product which is great that you are sharing your method. Just wanted to make a point that there are people who are allergic to walnut woods and can not work with them as is also other woods. But there are people who are allergic to walnut oil as well and was wondering if there is any lingering effect of the use after it is finished. As with CA, polyurethane, and lacquers they cure to a hard finish. Maybe there is some poly in the finish and it too cures hard as does Danish oil. Interesting.


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## mikespenturningz

It contains Walnut oil, Shellac and some sort of micro wax. Like I said I am definitely not a chemist but the guy that makes it is. He has a lot of stuff on the site about the chemistry that goes into it. I know I thought I was finished with pens when I became allergic to the CA and I worked very hard to make my pens world class and they are getting there slowly but surely. 



jttheclockman said:


> mikespenturningz said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am a pen maker not a scientist. The guy that makes this is a chemist though. If you don't have reverse you can turn the blank around. This is how I finish my pens and I am sharing it in hopes it will help others. There are lots of important reasons to use reverse I am sorry if you don't have it but those that do can achieve an excellent finish that I have not duplicated in forward only. I made lots of pens using my shopsmith and only had forward. I do put my finishing technique in my sales add so it is publicized that it has Walnut oil in the finish.
> 
> 
> 
> jttheclockman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Man that is alot of work. Not all people have reverse on their lathes. I know I do not.
> 
> My question is how about those that are allergic to walnut oils???
> 
> Also is there residue left on there when you go to sell the pen and the person who buys it is allergic to walnut oils. Just thinking out loud.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Mike I mean nothing by my statement and I realize you are stating how you have come to use this product which is great that you are sharing your method. Just wanted to make a point that there are people who are allergic to walnut woods and can not work with them as is also other woods. But there are people who are allergic to walnut oil as well and was wondering if there is any lingering effect of the use after it is finished. As with CA, polyurethane, and lacquers they cure to a hard finish. Maybe there is some poly in the finish and it too cures hard as does Danish oil. Interesting.
Click to expand...


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## jttheclockman

mikespenturningz said:


> It contains Walnut oil, Shellac and some sort of micro wax. Like I said I am definitely not a chemist but the guy that makes it is. He has a lot of stuff on the site about the chemistry that goes into it. I know I thought I was finished with pens when I became allergic to the CA and I worked very hard to make my pens world class and they are getting there slowly but surely.
> 
> 
> 
> jttheclockman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mikespenturningz said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am a pen maker not a scientist. The guy that makes this is a chemist though. If you don't have reverse you can turn the blank around. This is how I finish my pens and I am sharing it in hopes it will help others. There are lots of important reasons to use reverse I am sorry if you don't have it but those that do can achieve an excellent finish that I have not duplicated in forward only. I made lots of pens using my shopsmith and only had forward. I do put my finishing technique in my sales add so it is publicized that it has Walnut oil in the finish.
> 
> 
> 
> jttheclockman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Man that is alot of work. Not all people have reverse on their lathes. I know I do not.
> 
> My question is how about those that are allergic to walnut oils???
> 
> Also is there residue left on there when you go to sell the pen and the person who buys it is allergic to walnut oils. Just thinking out loud.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Mike I mean nothing by my statement and I realize you are stating how you have come to use this product which is great that you are sharing your method. Just wanted to make a point that there are people who are allergic to walnut woods and can not work with them as is also other woods. But there are people who are allergic to walnut oil as well and was wondering if there is any lingering effect of the use after it is finished. As with CA, polyurethane, and lacquers they cure to a hard finish. Maybe there is some poly in the finish and it too cures hard as does Danish oil. Interesting.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

 

It is probably the shellac that is making it a hard finish then and pulling it all together. So with the use of shellac that should seal it. Cool. Glad it is a finish you can use and hopefully others. Many people are still looking for that perfect finish in many aspects of woodworking, not only pen making. The pens you been putting out sure show signs of a good finish. It is another tool in the tool bag as they say.


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## Holz Mechaniker

As I understand, it is the proteins in the oil that can create and cause reactions.  Now the main thing I want to state that there is Walnut oil for cooking and salads, and then there is the walnut oil for wood finish has been processed, and heated so to remove those proteins that causes issues.


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## jttheclockman

Holz Mechaniker said:


> As I understand, it is the proteins in the oil that can create and cause reactions. Now the main think I want to state that there is Walnut oil for cooking and salads, and then there is the walnut oil for wood finish has been processed, and heated so to remove those proteins that causes issues.


 

I am sure the person has done his studies on how to process it and use it safely. I do know a person who can not use walnut oil as a finish because they are allergic to it. He would love to use it because of its properties in that it dries clear and does not amber or hide the grain as linseed oil or danish oil can do. Probably something like the difference between linseed oil and boiled linseed oil. The properties are broken down.


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## raar25

Does this compare to CA for durability?  I have not found any friction polish that compares.


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## jyreene

raar25 said:


> Does this compare to CA for durability?  I have not found any friction polish that compares.



Ditto. I'd be curious.


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## mikespenturningz

I have had my carry pen in with me for a year now and it is still in good condition. I cannot say how long CA lasts I know that it is plastic and it is prone to scratch.


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## MikeL

Your pens are impressive. Thanks for an alternative finishing method. It took me about two months of finishing with CA to realize my sinus issues were not allergies or sawdust or the accelerator, it was the CA. I still use it occasionally. I am glad to see a technique that uses something other than CA with stunning results such as your pens. Thanks


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## BSea

MikeL said:


> Your pens are impressive. Thanks for an alternative finishing method. It took me about two months of finishing with CA to realize my sinus issues were not allergies or sawdust or the accelerator, it was the CA. I still use it occasionally. I am glad to see a technique that uses something other than CA with stunning results such as your pens. Thanks


I have the same issue with CA.  about 2 days after using CA, I wake up at night & can't breath through my nose.  I mean not even a little bit.  I now use an organic respirator with CA.  In fact, when I'm in the shop I use it almost all the time just for dust control.  But when i do a really heavy CA job because of voids, or I'm doing several pens, the fumes will attack my sinuses through my eyes, and I have the same problem, although not so bad.  

So I've been looking for a solution, and came across the Pen Plus product from Doctors Wood Shop.  I've used it on several pens, and although I'm not unhappy with the results, but I'm thinking Mike's tutorial will make a difference.  I'll let you know soon.  I'm finishing a pen right now, and just stopped so I could come print out his instructions.


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## JohnGreco

I actually keep my respirator on the kitchen counter (VERY supportive wife!) and don't go into the shop without putting that on first (along with my prescription safety glasses). I can say I've been fortunate enough to not smell any CA fumes while wearing that, and if I have my face shield on & down still from being at the lathe the fumes only ever go into my eyes when the bottom edge hangs over where I'm applying it. That stings, but I use CA almost daily and I would say that happens maybe 2x a month.

That said, it seems this is a great alternative to CA. Thanks for taking the time to write it up, Mike.


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## BSea

Ok, I finished the pen.  I did run into a small mishap.  When I was buffing, I guess I got it too hot, and the paper towel stuck to the blank.  I had to go back to 600 to get off all the pieces of paper towel.  I guess the shellac caught it just at the right time.  But other than that, no issues at all.

Below are 3 pens I'm making for "Pens for the Troops".  I did nothing to the photos other than to crop & resize.  All the pens were wiped with a soft cloth before being photographed.  About the only thing different was the 1st pen had a more open grain, and was more red.  Looking at the cocobolo CBs in all 3 pics.  They look similar to me as far as shine.  Other than that, I do think Mike's method is a big improvement as far as getting a higher gloss finish than the way I used the finish initially.  

Thanks Mike!!

The 1st is Mike's method.






Next is CA.





Finally is just Pens Plus without the walnut oil sanding.  I basically used 3 or 4 coats like the video from the website showed.


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## Holz Mechaniker

The main thing about CA that made me stop using it was learning that it will wear off because of human biology. So I refrain from using it as much as possible.  
Will I use Doctors?  Maybe the oil but not pen finish.  I have my own method and It works well.


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## mredburn

I also use the Doctors wood shop products when I want a more natural sheen/shine on wood. I have a couple of friends I make pens for that dont like ca finishes at all.


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## OOPS

Thanks for posting your findings, Mike.  The owner of Doctor's visited our local Woodcraft and created interest in the various products.  However, some of the local pen turners weren't able to duplicate the results.  We will discuss your method at the next club meeting and see if we can't get similar results.  I am sure the whole club will be appreciative of your efforts.


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## Scruffy

*Couple questions*

How do you like the result on open grain woods?

I quess I'm too lietral some time.  I went to the Doctors site looking for "Doctors Wood Shop Pen finish".  I can't seem to find that one 

I found* Walnut Finishing Oil and Pens Plus.  *Are these the two products you are referring in your description?

And you say walnut oil specifically in your text as you are wet sanding.  Is this staight walnut oil also a product from Doctors Workshop?

You have gotten my interest. I want to make sure I get the right products.


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## mmayo

Definitely worth a try.  Thanks


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## Scruffy

*Walnut oil products..*

So far I have been very pleased with the result.

I have had some anomalies that were easily corrected from time to time.  But they were much easier to correct than if they had occurred with CA.

I have found a situation that I take kinda a mixed approach.

I have a hard time getting a non pitted finish if I am using an opened grained wood.  So if I want a highly polished surface for an opened grain wood using walnut oil based products, I do the following

1. Sand proud of final size say +.01.
2. Use thin CA as grain sealer.. 2-3 coats  
3. Sand down to +.005 proud.
4. Check for grain.  If grain still shows Add more thin CA. Add more This CA coats,  Sand back down.
5. If grain finishes smooth, then complete sanding to proper size.  This should take you down to wood and grain filled.
6.  Apply desired walnut oil finish 

I have had mostly nice results.  Some unacceptable results too.  Still trying to figure out how to completely nail the process down.  Some woods absorb the CA deeper than others.


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## mikespenturningz

Why is it so important to hide all the grain from a piece of wood? It is part of the texture of wood. I think the walnut oil will actually seal the wood? Then the finish will protect it. All I know is this is how I do it and others will improve on it and hopefully share.


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## Deadhead

Mike,

The finish on your pens appears to be a satin finish, it's hard to tell from the photos.
How long does your process take?

Beautiful pens by the way.

Ben


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## mikespenturningz

It really doesn't take any longer to finish a pen my way than it does to finish with say 10 coats of CA. The finish is not quite as shinny as CA but not all that far from it either. I like feeling the wood too.

For those that don't tolerate CA like me it was the difference between continuing on or not with pen making. If I have to wrap my self in protection from head to foot then I would find something else to do.


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## raar25

As expected it does not appear the walnut oil gives the same deep finish as CA.  Looking at the pens in Bobs pictures above, I definately see a difference. So the search goes on for the ultimate non-CA finish.  Think I will look at the water based polys again, I never thought of rubbing in a finish with sandpaper so I am going to have to try this.


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## mikespenturningz

Why do you think the finish has to be thick or as shinny as CA? There are some folks here that use a dip method? Maybe that would suit you better? Are you also using the pen finish or just the walnut oil? I have posted 100's of pens with this finish and am happy with it and so are my customers. Finding just the right finish is certainly an adventure. I tried 2 or 3 other methods before I came to this one. Also don't forget you are not going to get your best finish the first time you try it.

Mike



raar25 said:


> As expected it does not appear the walnut oil gives the same deep finish as CA.  Looking at the pens in Bobs pictures above, I definately see a difference. So the search goes on for the ultimate non-CA finish.  Think I will look at the water based polys again, I never thought of rubbing in a finish with sandpaper so I am going to have to try this.


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## BSea

raar25 said:


> As expected it does not appear the walnut oil gives the same deep finish as CA.  Looking at the pens in Bobs pictures above, I definately see a difference. So the search goes on for the ultimate non-CA finish.  Think I will look at the water based polys again, I never thought of rubbing in a finish with sandpaper so I am going to have to try this.



I think finishes are like pen types. There are fountain pens, rollerballs, ballpoints, pencils, stylus . . . etc. there are CA finishes, friction, tung oil. . . . I think you get the idea. Personally, I like a more natural finish. But a high gloss, glass like finish is nice too. So do the finish you like, but it doesn't hurt to have options to offer potential customers.  And this method is a good option to offer. At least that's my personal opinion. YMMV


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## Deadhead

Mike,

The MM and Abranet.

Do you use the sheets or pads?
 If you use the sheets, do you discard both the MM and Abranet after each use use, or do you re-use each?

Ben


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## mikespenturningz

I definitely reuse them over and over. They are both way to expensive to just use and toss. 
I use the sheets of abranet but you can use any sort of abrasive you want. You do need to use the MM though. I use a paper towel and wipe the walnut oil off after using it.



Deadhead said:


> Mike,
> 
> The MM and Abranet.
> 
> Do you use the sheets or pads?
> If you use the sheets, do you discard both the MM and Abranet after each use use, or do you re-use each?
> 
> Ben


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## mikespenturningz

One other thing really needs to be stressed here guys. You will not get the same finish I get on your first pen. My tutorial is a guide and you will improve on it if you stick with it. It has taken me more than 100 pens to get to the point where I am at now maybe even 200. You cannot expect to purchase this or any product and get the exact same results on your first few pens. It take time to get an eye for what is happening with this or with CA. I am not getting the best finish with this product that it is capable of giving practice and adjustment is what is needed to get better at anything. Anyone can make and sell a $20 pen. But can you make and sell a $200 dollar pen on your second try? Probably not. How about a $2000 pen? This is the difference between practice and getting better and a beginner. If you only do one thing that is fine but stretch yourself and you get better and better. Then next thing you know you are starting to sell better and better pens and the quality shows. Don't give up after a single try at something if it was easy everyone would do it. I am posting up this and other tutorials to help give you guys a jump start. I don't have anything to do with this finish other than purchasing it and learning how to get the most out of it. Don't debate about the process it is the way I finish every pen that I make from wood it is not debatable. Instead improve on it and post it or ask questions. Don't try it once and forget it. BTW I do sell $200 pens and will sell $2000 before I am done will you? Keep on getting better and let experience guide you and you all will I am sure of it.


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## jttheclockman

Mike do us a favor, please, and don't forget us when you start selling $2000 pens And please post a few of them so it gives us something to strive for.


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## OOPS

Mike:  I just wanted to let you know that I have circulated your information to a few of my penturning colleagues and it has generated a good bit of discussion.  Your later post is excellent, stating that you will never be a pro at friction polish or any other type of finish after only a few attempts.  I would imagine that none of my local penturner friends have done more than 20 friction finishes a piece, before moving to other techniques.  

However, several members have been in search of a finish method that looks more like natural wood and lacks the "plastic" look and feel of CA.  So we will start experimenting and let you know how things go.  Thank you so much for posting this.


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## Deadhead

No Mike; I don't expect to get the same results as you from the get go. Looking at your work, you obliviously know what you're doing. I'm just looking for a finish that is decent looking, can be applied in a reasonable amount of time, that is not a pain to apply, and still be able to feel the texture of the wood. Friction polishes don't last. CA; while it looks good, it has a plastic feel and is starting to seem more trouble than it is worth; and I have only be doing it since February, (not to mention the potential health hazards, and in your case allergic reaction). I've been playing around with WTF and it's been hit or miss so far. 
 
Ben


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## Wildman

Walnut oil as a finish simple to apply and obtain a satin finish. Both Mahoney’s & Doctors walnut oils merely salad oil. Some woodturners prefer to get their walnut oil from health or artist supply stores. 

Doctor’s woodshop pens plus product very similar to Hut’s Crystal Coat finish available from many vendors.  Like most shellac, oil/wax mixes expect some fade back because unlike film finishes you do not get a buildup of finish on wood.  Yes, these finishes will appear shinier on closed grain woods.  Open grain or diagonal grain (pen blanks cut diagonally) woods will sop up more finish.   

Neither pure walnut oil nor oil shellac wax products afford much protection from scratches and benefit from reapplications over time.  Have a button click pen made nine years ago other than some fade back looks like day made.   I posted a picture of it here last year.

If want a totally green finish use pure walnut or Tung oil finish on close grain woods. Forget about reapplication one pen/pencil assembled. 

Shellac & BLO not considered a green finish.


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## srs64

Wonderful thread for a novice like myself and well detailed

Sherman


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## jcm71

Mike,
Wow, what an excellent post.  I'm beginning to have some CA issues as well and am going to try your method.  A couple of questions if you don't mind.  How much walnut oil do you use when wet sanding?  Immersed or just a puddle on the pad?  Also, how often do you have to clean your MM?  Thanks again.

John


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## mikespenturningz

Just a few drops on the pad. You will get the amount as you do it but start with just a few drops. I use all MM now for this sanding the abranet is just not conducive to wet sanding.



BURLMAN said:


> Mike,
> Wow, what an excellent post.  I'm beginning to have some CA issues as well and am going to try your method.  A couple of questions if you don't mind.  How much walnut oil do you use when wet sanding?  Immersed or just a puddle on the pad?  Also, how often do you have to clean your MM?  Thanks again.
> 
> John


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## healeydays

I know I'm late to this party, and I thank Mike S for the writeup, but what do folks do with resin based pens?  I too have a problem with CA and have been happy with the finish using MM but I want to hear from the pros...

Mike B


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## BSea

For resin, Just polish the same as you do for CA.  I use the 1st 4 pads of MM then I us a beal buffing system.  However, I used to just do MM through all the pads for resin pens


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## mmayo

I have completed six pens using Mike's advice on a one direction lathe so no reverse. Thanks!  Now I have a non-CA system that works and is almost bullet proof.


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## mightymavkev

An update on my experiment.   I actually tried Mike's process with the Walnut Oil and Pens Plus treatment first on my antler pens.   Mike and I discussed this idea first and neither of us were really sure it would work out too well.

Well, I went ahead and made one and was pretty happy with the results.   The bone had a nice gloss.  Probably more satin than glossy like with CA, but you could still feel the nooks and crannies.  You could tell it was a piece of organic material.   That is something I really liked right off the bat.

The real question was how would it last.

So I made a couple test pens and gave to friends who I know will use them moderately (unlike me) and see how they do.   That was a couple months (maybe 3 now) ago and while I don't have access to the first one to see with my own eyes, the second one I gave out is holding up very well.   In fact I can't notice any signs of wear or fading in the finish or gloss from use like I would notice sometimes on some CA finishes.

Since then I've used this Pens Plus finish approach on all the wood items I've made.  Pens.  Screwdriver handle.  LED Flashlight kits.  and even the Travel Mug kit that I turned out of a solid piece of claro walnut.   All cases came out great and I think I will no longer use CA on wood again, and likely not on antler very often either.

Thanks Mike for your tutorial.

As a testament to the "practice".. Mike's right.   I am finding that as I do this more and more I not only get better results, but it also gets faster - almost second nature to me sort of.  At this point it's really just about as efficient as my CA finishes were.

I had 2 main problems that I am still working on (but they're both getting better).

1.   The paper towel for me starts to disintegrate before I start getting the gloss equal during both application and buffing steps.   This is what I look for per Mike's instructions to know that there's enough build up and your done.   There's a purpose to using the same spot on the applicator paper towel over and over for each layer as it helps to smooth and (I think) sort of "burnish" the finish with each application as you go.   My problem has been that it falls apart on me before I get to the point where I'm sure the finish is done.   I'm working on adjusting speed and amount of Pens Plus on the applicator though and I think it's getting better.

2.  The other issue I've run into, again, something that I think will continue to get better with experience, is just knowing how many applications to do until I get to the point that the gloss is pretty much equal both when you apply as well as when you buff.   Throughout the process, it dulls a bit when buffing.  When the buffing stage seems to leave the same gloss as it had when you applied the last coat, you know you're at the point where the finish is built up enough.   For me, it seems to take a really long time to get there - even more than I think Mike intended it to in his instructions - but I've stuck with it and I think getting used to the speed and pressure during buffing and such it is getting better.


Anyway, to each his own, but I would suggest that everyone at least try it on several pens and see what they think.  I know it's working for me so I believe it would for many others as well.

Kevin


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## mark james

Really cool thread!!!
Thanks guys!


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## wildbill23c

I just purchased the high friction polish and the microcrystal finish and have had mixed results, sometimes I get a somewhat nice shine other times can't see any shine at all.  I'm sanding to 1000 grit as that's the highest grit sandpaper I've been able to find.  What should I change or do to get more consistency in my finishes?  How many coats of each product should I apply and in what order is the correct way?  The finish then polish or is the other way around?


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## dtswebb

Mike,

Thank you for answering my questions to you when this post was first up.  I use Pen Plus the way you outlined and it is my finish of choice.  My carry pen is still bright, shiny and feels like wood, not plastic.  The pens I've sold since starting to use the Pen Plus still look they were just finished and I've had people come back to me to purchase additional pens because they like the way the pen feels in their hands.

For those of us that don't like or don't want to use a CA finish, Pen Plus is a winner.  And with practice, applying the finish doesn't take any longer than applying a CA finish.

Matthew


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## reiddog1

Great post Mike.  Thank you for sharing!!


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## marksman

Mike,

Thanks for the info. CA finish results (mainly the random cracking that has been discussed here) has caused me to shy away from wood pens which I absolutely LOVE to turn. I have a question about the finish you describe in the post, how does the finish work on a hybrid blank? I imagine that since you are sanding down to 12000MM that you get a nice shine from the plastic infill material but I thought I would ask.


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## Dan Masshardt

marksman said:


> Mike,  Thanks for the info. CA finish results (mainly the random cracking that has been discussed here) has caused me to shy away from wood pens which I absolutely LOVE to turn. I have a question about the finish you describe in the post, how does the finish work on a hybrid blank? I imagine that since you are sanding down to 12000MM that you get a nice shine from the plastic infill material but I thought I would ask.



Great question.


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## mightymavkev

Yep, I'm curious about this as well.  My guess is that it wouldn't affect the plastic portion one way or the other since it wouldn't penetrate it that much if at all, but would still work on the wood section.

Although I do wonder if the depth of shine would vary between the two.

I have to admit, I haven't done much with the hybrid blanks because they're so expensive, but the few that I did, I used CA just to be safe since the ones I turned (fiji blanks from woodcraft) showed some pretty decent voids between the resin and the wood and I was afraid the wood portions would break loose after turning to pen diameter without the CA finish.   Probably me being paranoid, but after spending $20 on a single blank, I wasn't interested in taking any chances.


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## Dan Masshardt

mightymavkev said:


> Yep, I'm curious about this as well.  My guess is that it wouldn't affect the plastic portion one way or the other since it wouldn't penetrate it that much if at all, but would still work on the wood section.  Although I do wonder if the depth of shine would vary between the two.  I have to admit, I haven't done much with the hybrid blanks because they're so expensive, but the few that I did, I used CA just to be safe since the ones I turned (fiji blanks from woodcraft) showed some pretty decent voids between the resin and the wood and I was afraid the wood portions would break loose after turning to pen diameter without the CA finish.   Probably me being paranoid, but after spending $20 on a single blank, I wasn't interested in taking any chances.


depending on what you turn, I just don't see how one can eliminate ca completely   No oil is going to fill voids.  

We all have and will have go to finishes just like we do tools.  But experience teaches us that we need the right tool and finish for the particular job.


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## mightymavkev

Oh I agree completely.

I guess what I was saying is that since there was a noticeable void along the seam between the wood and plastic, I decided to finish in CA to be safe.

if it would have just been an air hole or something, I would have tried filling with CA and then finishing with Pens Plus.


So, since I didn't try it that one time, I don't know how Pens Plus would do on the plastic on a hybrid.   

I'm curious though.  If I had $20 to go to Woodcraft tonight, I might just go get one and try it again to see and report my findings.    

Hmm.... maybe this weekend.   

Kevin


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## Dan Masshardt

mightymavkev said:


> Oh I agree completely.  I guess what I was saying is that since there was a noticeable void along the seam between the wood and plastic, I decided to finish in CA to be safe.  if it would have just been an air hole or something, I would have tried filling with CA and then finishing with Pens Plus.  So, since I didn't try it that one time, I don't know how Pens Plus would do on the plastic on a hybrid.  I'm curious though.  If I had $20 to go to Woodcraft tonight, I might just go get one and try it again to see and report my findings.  Hmm.... maybe this weekend.     Kevin



The blanks of this type that I've done had no gaps or probs between the materials.  They were from either El Mostro here or Wayne Ryan


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## Janster

mikespenturningz said:


> Ok I have been doing allot of pen finishing with this finish. I have been telling folks about it for months. I really like this finish and have burned through an entire bottle of it and am on my second. I have done allot of experimenting and will recount below what I do in hopes that it will help others who are allergic to CA like I am. I have also had allot of people ask  me so here it is this is what I do.
> 
> 1. Finish turning a pen then go into sanding mode
> 2. 240 grit dry sand I always use forward and reverse
> 3. 320 grit dry sand in reverse then switch to forward and sand some more
> 4. 400 forward then reverse
> 5. 600 reverse and then switch to forward and sand some more. This is the end of dry sanding. I use Abranet so I don't wet sand with it.
> 6. 4000 MM wet sand with Walnut oil forward then reverse
> 7. 6000 MM wet sand with Walnut oil reverse then forward
> 8. 8000 MM wet sand with Walnut oil forward then reverse
> 10. 12000 MM wet sand with Walnut Oil reverse then forward.
> 11. Use paper towel to really heat things up and buff the walnut oil. It will set the oil.
> 12. Fold up a paper towel and add a nice drop of Doctors Wood Shop Pen finish on it and apply to the blank don't buff yet I use about 1100 rpm for this
> 13. Reverse the lathe and apply another drop and apply. Now buff with the other end of t paper towel.
> 14 Apply another drop to the paper towel I use exactly the same spot every time so I get a soaked spot on the towel this is important and you will see why later.
> 15. Set the lathe to forward and apply another drop to the same spot again and apply then buff out with the same spot on the other end of the paper towel. You are smoothing the paper towel and it seems to do a better and better job on the finish.
> 16. Reverse the lathe again and apply another drop and apply and buff
> 17. Forward again and apply another drop and buff. By now you have noticed that when you apply you see a nice shiny blank but when you buff it dulls just a bit. You need to keep repeating this procedure until you see very little difference between buff and apply once this is achieved.
> 18. I use the wet spot that I created and leave the lathe in forward and speed things up just a bit maybe 2000 rpms and give a few more applications with what is in the wet spot and buff between. You should see very little difference between the wet and buffed when done. Make sure the last time that you buff that you heat things up a bit to make sure all is set.
> 
> I find that with really hard woods you won't need as many applications but with softer woods you may need more. I hope this little tutorial helps you out. Here is a link to Doctors Wood Shop Pen Finish
> 
> I hope this helps you all.


DOC-106
Walnut Finishing Oil as a sanding agent before using the PENS Plus? Is this what you are referring to Mike?    ...Thanks....Jan


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## georgestanley032

Does this compare to CA for durability? I have not found any friction polish that compares.


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## Dan Masshardt

georgestanley032 said:


> Does this compare to CA for durability? I have not found any friction polish that compares.



I'm convinced that pens plus is the best friction finish out there.   

However, it's not CA.  CA has some major strengths and some weaknesses and some want to avoid it.   For them, they should take a look at pens plus.    

 Some like a more natural feel.   Pens plus is  great for them.    Some want a deep gloss and great protection.  They should probably stick (pun) with ca.    

Personably I use both finishes.  And my choice of one over the other isn't about durability.  It's about the wood I'm turning and the look I want.


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## gulfmedic1

*question*

can you substitute the walnut oil for BLO


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## KenV

gulfmedic1 said:


> can you substitute the walnut oil for BLO



I do and like the results.  Less amber color and lower viscosity are two advantages.


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## gulfmedic1

thanks KenV


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## gulfmedic1

so Mike you use regular Walnut oil and then the Doctors finish on top of that?
sorry just trying to make sure i got it right i really want to try your method your pens are beautiful


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## Dave Turner

After reading this thread I decided to try out Dr. Woodshops Pens Plus for myself. Although I get great results from CA and have only minimal reaction to it, I'm always in the market for alternative choices, particularly if they are easier.

Having turned my first seam ripper yesterday, which will be gifted, I dry sanded the Bubinga up to 400 grit as I normally do (sanding each grit first with the lathe on, then along the grain with the lathe off). I then wiped on some walnut oil to see how the grain would look (Mahoney's Walnut Oil from Woodcraft). I wiped off as much of this as I could and then set it by rubbing it with paper towel with the lathe at high speed.

Next I put 3 or 4 drops of Pens Plus on a small 3"x3" square of terry cloth and wiped this on the wood with the lathe turning about 200 rpm. Using the same spot on the cloth, I then friction polished the coating by turning the lathe speed up to 2000 rpm. This whole process took about 30 seconds. I then repeated these steps and put on 3 additional coats of Pens Plus, friction polishing each coat. Total time, about 2 to 3 minutes start to finish.

I've got to admit, I really like the results. A nice semi-gloss finish that has some depth to it. And it can't get any easier, less than 1/4th the work of a CA finish. I'll have to try this on a few pens. While it's not a replacement for a glass-like CA finish, I can see where this will have a place alongside. I thank everyone for bringing this product to my attention.


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## gulfmedic1

KenV said:


> gulfmedic1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> can you substitute the walnut oil for BLO
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do and like the results.  Less amber color and lower viscosity are two advantages.
Click to expand...


Ken
what do you complete the finishing with? what process do you use? do you use Mikes?


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