# Start of my first practice bowl



## Band Saw Box (Nov 9, 2015)

Here is the start of my first bowl. It's a practice bowl made from a glue up of 2" X 8" pine I cut down to 6" X 6". I never done a bowl before so I thought this would be a good place to start before I use a good blank. I used my Carbide cutter.


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## nativewooder (Nov 9, 2015)

Very nice for a practice (test) bowl.


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## Drewboy22 (Nov 9, 2015)

Looks real good!  I like the shape


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## Edgar (Nov 9, 2015)

That looks mighty good for a practice bowl.
If nothing else, I'm sure it will be handy for storing things in around the shop.


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## Cwalker935 (Nov 9, 2015)

That looks like a great start.  To me, that grain is begging for a charred finish.  

Give a Charred Finish to Wood | Video | HGTV


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## stonepecker (Nov 9, 2015)

Charre it and just a lite sanding then a spray laquer finish.

Perfect little shop bowl to had to remind you.
Looking good.


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## Band Saw Box (Nov 9, 2015)

Thanks for all the comment's. Cody I watch the video and I may give it try at this point I'm not sure just how I'll finish it I hope the inside comes out nice to I'll have the chance to finish it.


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## Bill in Buena Park (Nov 9, 2015)

Looks great Dan - I like the shape and foot.


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## Charlie_W (Nov 9, 2015)

Dan,  Your bowl looks fine! I wouldn't call it a practice bowl. 
Many folks don't consider pine to be a turning wood. Some of it has some great grain and coloring. 

I have seen a charred bowl demo. One of them was charred on the outside with natural wood on the inside. One had a red dyed top rim. It really looked sharp!
The best part of a charred bowl is you don't need to sand that part!


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## Skie_M (Nov 9, 2015)

Is that tenon deep enough with defined enough sides to grip in the chuck?  A lot of chucks need a slight dovetail tenon on the bottom of the bowl for a secure grip.


Still wish I had a 4-jaw chuck so I could turn some bowls ....


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## Band Saw Box (Nov 9, 2015)

Of inThanks Bill, Charlie and Skie. Charlie I'm calling it a practice bowl because it's something new for me. I do like the grain on this bowl. I'll have to see if I can find the video you spoke of. Skie I don't have a chuck so I'm using a piece of wood with a mortise turned in to it and I CAed it on the the bowl bottom. I saw it done on YouTube. I'm hoping it doesn't fly off when I start turning. Below is a picture of the rig


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## D.Oliver (Nov 9, 2015)

That's a clever idea.  Do you just turn the piece of wood with the mortise away when you are finished then?


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## Band Saw Box (Nov 9, 2015)

That's right Derek or at least that's how I sound work.


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## Charlie_W (Nov 9, 2015)

Dan, I like the beaded rim!


The demo I mentioned was live at one of our club meetings.


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## Band Saw Box (Nov 9, 2015)

Thanks Charlie for the comment. How was the charing done


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## edstreet (Nov 9, 2015)

https://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/16/2134/KC-Wire-Burners-3-Pack?term=wire

You can use this product for the groove areas.

Results is like this.






The bowl you are showing off here looks very good and am very glad to see you are paying attention to details.  The form is good and I see no reason you can not drop 'practice' from this project.

Since it is pine you can add stain then burnish with oil to darken it up and add mood.


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## Band Saw Box (Nov 9, 2015)

edstreet I like the look if that bowl and the tools you had the link for I think I'll give that a try on another bowl. Oh thanks for the nice comment.
        I have a question as I get set to turn the inside of the bowl. What would be a good caliper to use to keep the sides of the bowl uniform.


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## edstreet (Nov 9, 2015)

https://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/86/5107/Versa-Cal-Multi-Caliper?term=caliper

Get the large one, you will need it.  It will reach to the bottom of the bowl while it's on a chuck or the cole jaws and show you exactly how thick it is, how much needs to be removed and allow you to never ever cut to much off.

One other thing that I use for marking, it's a ME thing.  Is a circle fly cutter set exactly to the size I need to max my 2" jaws on my nova chuck.







this tool is score (mark) ONLY and does not get used for any substantial cutting.  It's easy to put it in the drill chuck on the tailstock and touch the blank and pull it out.  Perfect and precise every time.


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## Cwalker935 (Nov 9, 2015)

Here is a link for info on making your own calipers

Custom Tools


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## jsolie (Nov 9, 2015)

Hi Dan, good to see your bowl coming along!  I really like how it's turning out, pun somewhat intended.

I have a pair of big red calipers I picked up from CSUSA a couple years ago.  I remember they weren't terribly cheap, but they do allow me to get inside of some forms a little bit to check thickness.  I used to measure things by feel.  Not terribly scientific, but it works.  Most pieces I've done this with have been kind of chunky.

Sound is also important.  The pitch goes up as the bowl's walls get more thin.  But watch out for chatter!  I've turned some bowls that really howled, even when holding a bowl gouge one handed and using my other hand as a steady rest.  Those bowls were being turned from very green wood and the surface was awful due to the chatter from the harmonic.  This wasn't done on a first bowl, though. I messed up a lot of wood first. 

I've also used my work light to "measure" thickness.  I'll get the light close to the piece and try to use the amount of light coming through the wood to help know the thickness of the piece.  Again, this wasn't a first bowl attempt.

Anyway, keep us posted on how your bowl is going.


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## Cwalker935 (Nov 9, 2015)

Skie_M said:


> Still wish I had a 4-jaw chuck so I could turn some bowls ....



Skie, you can turn bowls using a face plate. Either glue on a waste plate or allow extra wood for the depth of the screws. Part off the bowl and sand. Most of my bowls are made that way.


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## Dan Masshardt (Nov 9, 2015)

Skie_M said:


> Is that tenon deep enough with defined enough sides to grip in the chuck?  A lot of chucks need a slight dovetail tenon on the bottom of the bowl for a secure grip.  Still wish I had a 4-jaw chuck so I could turn some bowls ....



Greg,

   A chuck is a right not a privilege. .    Go ahead and get one.  Or 3. Haha

His tenon is plenty long enough.  Actually very little length is needed.   The photo seems to show it as the opposite of a dovetail though - if so that won't fly if so.    Some jaws are straight and serrated and others dovetailed.  I use dovetail jaws myself for bowls.


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## Bob Wemm (Nov 9, 2015)

Dan, Great job so far for a first attempt. I like the shape, and as others have said, the grain in pine is very attractive.
One thing you will most probably find is that the dark part of the grain is harder than the rest so it is quite common to get slight flat spots if you need to sand heavily.
I like the idea of a charred outside, saves that problem. You can charr with a gas burner, or use the stove if Evelyn will let you. LOL.
Welcome to bowl turning.

Bob.


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## Skie_M (Nov 9, 2015)

Dan Masshardt said:


> Skie_M said:
> 
> 
> > Is that tenon deep enough with defined enough sides to grip in the chuck?  A lot of chucks need a slight dovetail tenon on the bottom of the bowl for a secure grip.  Still wish I had a 4-jaw chuck so I could turn some bowls ....
> ...



Meh ... I'ld love to get my grubby lil paws on a decent 4-jaw scrolling chuck.  Faceplate works OK for small stuff, for me ... but I'm still using this lil bitty mini wood lathe from HFT.  I have a tiny 3-jaw scrolling chuck, and that works a little better, for small bowls and boxes, but it won't securely hold a larger bowl ...  

Last attempt was a 4-inch bowl.  It flew off the lathe twice, after I had flipped it to hollow out the center, and that was with a 1-inch long tenon on it that I really tightened down on with my tommy bars.  The second time, I had to dodge quick, and knocked my pen mandrel onto the floor and stepped on it ... 

The 3-jaw chuck holds small items pretty well, usually.  I use it to drill my blanks on the lathe with no problem, but it's got flat jaws with no serrations or dovetail.  In order to put it to use, I really need pressure from the tailstock live center or a drill bit to keep the workpiece secure.


At this point, I just can't justify the cost of spending 180 dollars on a decent chuck, because it costs nearly twice as much as my lathe... and I'm looking for a new job.


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## edstreet (Nov 9, 2015)

3 jaw chucks are generally used for metal working,  4 is used for woodworking.


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## Skie_M (Nov 9, 2015)

Hmm .... that might be part of my problem .... but considering that the price of that scrolling 3-jaw chuck was only 32 dollars from Harbor Freight Tools, as opposed to a 4-jaw scrolling chuck (Barracuda 2) for 180 dollars ....  That's just a little out of my price range. 

I couldn't find anything else I could use in my price range that would fit my mini wood lathe.  The 3-jaw was #1MT.


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## edstreet (Nov 9, 2015)

RECONDITIONED NOVA G3 Wood Turning Chuck - Teknatool USA Inc

also check ebay often.


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## Dan Masshardt (Nov 9, 2015)

Skie_M said:


> Hmm .... that might be part of my problem .... but considering that the price of that scrolling 3-jaw chuck was only 32 dollars from Harbor Freight Tools, as opposed to a 4-jaw scrolling chuck (Barracuda 2) for 180 dollars ....  That's just a little out of my price range.   I couldn't find anything else I could use in my price range that would fit my mini wood lathe.  The 3-jaw was #1MT.



Yeah, it's not really worth getting a good chuck until you get a bit bigger lathe.


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## Cwalker935 (Nov 9, 2015)

I find a faceplate more secure than a four jaw chuck.  I turn stuff up to 15" in diameter. I have had tenons split out on much smaller stuff.   Faceplate is much cheaper and gives you more design flexibility.  The only draw back is wasting part of the blank if you do not use a waste block.   I guess each to his own.


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## Dan Masshardt (Nov 9, 2015)

Cwalker935 said:


> I find a faceplate more secure than a four jaw chuck.  I turn stuff up to 15" in diameter. I have had tenons split out on much smaller stuff.   Faceplate is much cheaper and gives you more design flexibility.  The only draw back is wasting part of the blank if you do not use a waste block.   I guess each to his own.


  There are many methods for sure.  Lyle Jamison uses only faceplates and glue blocks for turning. No chucks.

Most variety is on initial mounting from what I can see.  

95% percent of turners seem to use a chuck once the bowl is reversed for hollowing.


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## edstreet (Nov 9, 2015)

Cwalker935 said:


> I find a faceplate more secure than a four jaw chuck.  I turn stuff up to 15" in diameter. I have had tenons split out on much smaller stuff.   Faceplate is much cheaper and gives you more design flexibility.  The only draw back is wasting part of the blank if you do not use a waste block.   I guess each to his own.



Really that depends on how good the attachment is.






Here we see a 2" faceplate securely attached to the bowl blank....









Same faceplate attached to the nova chuck.


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## Skie_M (Nov 9, 2015)

I can use a faceplate and turn a small bowl, sure ... it comes out nice if I hollow it and finish the inside and most of the outside that way, but then I part it off and the bottom needs to be finished by hand...  I don't really like this method.


I've tried using my 3-jaw to turn a small bowl, told you guys what happened there...  It wasn't terribly fun.  I turned the outside between centers and managed to turn a 1-inch long tenon on the bottom, then flipped it around to hold in the 3-jaw.  It kept wiggling out any time my tailstock wasn't in use.

I'm thinking I may need to just buy another 3-jaw and modify the jaws to give it a very slight dovetail grab.  I can't do that yet because that will make it impossible for me to drill my blanks with it anymore, and I only have just the 1 chuck.


I appreciate you looking for a used chuck for me, but as I already mentioned, I'm between jobs ... currently have no money to spare.  Thanks for thinking about me and taking the time to look around.


I've determined that my little 1/3 hp mini wood lathe wasn't really meant to do much more than perhaps a 4-inch bowl.  I do have a large wood blank that started out nearly 6 inches in diameter. I have found that anything more than extremely light cuts really bogs the speed down or stops the lathe .... which is very bad for my motor and pulley belt.  The most I have been able to do with this blank is to turn it round ... it's going to sit on a shelf and wait for a while.

It's still green wood ... I cut it down earlier this year, because it was rubbing against my roof line.  I have absolutely no idea what species it is, but it's a light colored and very closed grained wood ... EXTREMELY HARD and pretty heavy, but it's still got plenty of moisture in it.  This stuff is way harder than maple.  I'll have to snap a pic of the tree with leaves on it and see if you guys know what it is ... perhaps tomorrow with the sun out.


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## Charlie_W (Nov 9, 2015)

Band Saw Box said:


> Thanks Charlie for the comment. How was the charing done



Dan,
This demonstrator (from another local club)used a propane bottle torch. He scorched to black but not charred as much as the table top in that video.

Last year, we had Jimmy Clewes doing a 2 or 3 day workshop and the meeting demo. He also did a burnt bowl. Some will lightly brush the scorched/charred surface or even wire brush the surface and then re burn for a more textured, blackened finish. Oak and Ash work well for this. 
A matte or satin spray finish is good to seal in the soot and provide some finish without the high shine. 

My torched oak pen I had at MAPG last year turned out well and had a rustic, textured effect.


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## Lucky2 (Nov 10, 2015)

Skie, why would you ever put a 1" tenon on the bottom of your bowl blank? Have you ever checked out any bowl turning videos on You-Tube? If not, I'd suggest that you do, or talk to a bowl turner. All you need for a tenon is about 1/2", anything over that will usually bottom out  on the chuck. All you want the tenon to do is to hold the blank level and square to the chuck. It can't do that properly, if it is bottomed out. Bottom line is, you never want your blank to bottom out in the chuck. And, you will never need a 1" tenon, on any bowl blank. I'm not surprised that the bowl blank went flying, with the tenon being so long. The blank was just floating in the air, it wasn't resting up against the face of the chuck jaws like it should.
Len


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## Lucky2 (Nov 10, 2015)

Dan, that's a cute little bowl, personally, I think that you should just treat it with some BLO. Seeing as how this is your first, you should keep it, or, give it to your loving wife. There will be others to practice on, not this one, this one is a keeper that should only be signed and dated.
Len


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## Skie_M (Nov 10, 2015)

Lucky2 said:


> Skie, why would you ever put a 1" tenon on the bottom of your bowl blank? Have you ever checked out any bowl turning videos on You-Tube? If not, I'd suggest that you do, or talk to a bowl turner. All you need for a tenon is about 1/2", anything over that will usually bottom out  on the chuck. All you want the tenon to do is to hold the blank level and square to the chuck. It can't do that properly, if it is bottomed out. Bottom line is, you never want your blank to bottom out in the chuck. And, you will never need a 1" tenon, on any bowl blank. I'm not surprised that the bowl blank went flying, with the tenon being so long. The blank was just floating in the air, it wasn't resting up against the face of the chuck jaws like it should.
> Len



The 3-jaw chuck has a 1 inch depth of jaws.... I needed that much tenon length to put the bottom of my bowl against the face of the chuck jaws.  It WAS NOT bottomed out. I wanted as much wood against the gripping faces of the chuck as possible, without bottoming in the center of the chuck.

I've seen a lot of videos online already ... Captain Eddie is one of my favorites, as is The Naked Turner (thank god he doesn't really turn stuff while naked, it refers to the wood, not him!)


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## Band Saw Box (Nov 10, 2015)

Thank you so much for all the likes, comments and suggestions on how to finish. I started turning the inside and it's going good so far. I think I'm going to look in to a bowl gouge or a round Carbide tool, it's  a bit hard to get a curved near the bottom with the cutter I have.


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## edstreet (Nov 10, 2015)

What cutter do you have?  In my earlier days making bowls I was ill equipped but I bought some bowl gouges, 2 sizes, and a round nose scraper which have became the best investment that I could buy.

I also have three thickness calipers but the big red one is my go-to caliper (link posted earlier)

Scrapers are very good but nothing and I mean nothing will beat a good bowl gouge.  I profile some very very long wings (irish grind) on mine and essentially it is 3 chisels in one.

the other thing that really upped my game was S curved tool rest.  I have 2 sizes and I have full support to the bottom of the bowl be it the inside or the outside.  I can also shape the bowl to the tool rest and get good shape


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## edstreet (Nov 10, 2015)

Also a word of caution.

The gap between the tool rest and the cutting surface.  If it is LARGE there is a greater safety risk at play.  A catch can cause tremendous damage to you and to the bowl.  the tail end of the chisel can easily swing up and hit you in the face.


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## JimB (Nov 10, 2015)

I agree with Ed, you can't beat a bowl gouge. I actually have 5 but the one I use more than all the others combined is my Woodriver (Woodcraft brand) with the very swept back wings. It does 80% of my bowl work inside and outside and like Ed it is like having several chisels in one. My other bowl gouges are a Sorby and 3 from PSI. I bought the 3 from PSI as a set that was very inexpensive and I have re-profiled them several times to experiment. They work very well.

I also have a heavy duty scraper for the inside. I believe I got it from PSI. 

I have carbide tools but I do not use them on regular bowls. I do, sometimes, use them on end grain hallow forms.


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## Skie_M (Nov 10, 2015)

These chisels with the "swept back wings" and "irish grind" ... would they also be termed an Ellsworth Grind bowl gouge?


I get my chisels from Harbor Freight.  18 bucks .... extremely poor workmanship, but there's nothing wrong with the steel.  They come out of the box pretty much blunt enough to bruise someone if it landed on their foot, but not cut them. (yeah, that bad)


The lighter side of the equation is ... at least you'll learn how to sharpen your tools! =D


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## 76winger (Nov 10, 2015)

Nice start!


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## LouF (Nov 10, 2015)

Very nice work looks great.


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## The Penguin (Nov 10, 2015)

Skie_M said:


> These chisels with the "swept back wings" and "irish grind" ... would they also be termed an Ellsworth Grind bowl gouge?
> 
> 
> I get my chisels from Harbor Freight.  18 bucks .... extremely poor workmanship, but there's nothing wrong with the steel.  They come out of the box pretty much blunt enough to bruise someone if it landed on their foot, but not cut them. (yeah, that bad)
> ...


"swept back wings" "Irish grind" and "Ellsworth grind" are all basically the same thing.


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## edstreet (Nov 10, 2015)

Overall the biggest difference is the angle.








This is the ones I use.







I use this irish grind, it's 1/2" for more detailed delicate work, sharper angle and highly aggressive.


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## Band Saw Box (Nov 10, 2015)

I found the source of the chatter and hard cutting....please don't let this get out...I somehow switch my lathe  in to reverse


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## Charlie_W (Nov 10, 2015)

Band Saw Box said:


> edstreet I like the look if that bowl and the tools you had the link for I think I'll give that a try on another bowl. Oh thanks for the nice comment.
> I have a question as I get set to turn the inside of the bowl. What would be a good caliper to use to keep the sides of the bowl uniform.



Dan, here is a basic calipers that works well for bowls.


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## Charlie_W (Nov 10, 2015)

And these texturing tools will give you the texturing on Ed's bowl.


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## edstreet (Nov 10, 2015)

Charlie_W said:


> Band Saw Box said:
> 
> 
> > edstreet I like the look if that bowl and the tools you had the link for I think I'll give that a try on another bowl. Oh thanks for the nice comment.
> ...



I do have one of those.  It does come in handy in a few cases however it is very small and not suitable for any decent size bowl, especially for the bottom.  For this reason I posted and suggest the big red one be used.  It offers more room than needed so you will never find a case where it will not work on the lathe he is using.


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