# High End but Slim?



## David350 (Mar 16, 2018)

Is there a high end pen out there that is also slim as in clos to the 7 mm tube size?  I have made a bunch of the slimline pens and know many ladies who like them for their size. but I was wondering if there were some pen designs out there as slim, but have a higher quality look and feel.  If so, please let me know the model(s) and where they are available.  Thanks, David


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## ajollydds (Mar 16, 2018)

My wife likes the aero twist.   It’s a smaller pen, but still just over 9mm.


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## turncrazy43 (Mar 16, 2018)

Look at the PSI Patrizio. 7mm, two barrel, cross refill. Just a thought.
Turncrazy43


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## mecompco (Mar 16, 2018)

My big issue w/7mm tubed pens is that they are limited to using the Cross style refill. Even with an upgraded refill, they don't even come close to writing as well as a good Parker style refill (Schmidt EasyFlow 9000 being my choice).


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## Dehn0045 (Mar 16, 2018)

I think that a Sierra style will give you the most "high end", though the tube is slightly larger, the point that you hold the pen is quite narrow.  The Majestic Squire might be a good option, or the Sierra Elegant Beauty, there are many others.  Another option might be the Editor (Tiny Giant).  I personally use a Rollester as my carry pen, it is fairly slim and shows a blank quite well, but the cap could be better.  The Long Clicker is another option, but like the Rollester it might be uncomfortable depending on how you hold your pen.


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## magpens (Mar 16, 2018)

In my opinion, if you're looking for a truly high end pen kit that looks and feels like a slimline, then you are out of luck. .  There aren't any.

I agree with the comment that you have to get away from the Cross refill if you want any kind of "quality" in your products.

I also agree with some "alternatives" to the slimline pen kit but "alternatives" is really kinda misleading because they are totally different kits in just about every way possible. . They all use Parker-style refills which can be bought with quality performance (Schmidt brand refills and Private Reserve brand are two examples).

The Sierra Elegant Beauty, the Aero, and the Majestic Squire (you need a pry bar to open the clip if you want to clip it in your shirt pocket) are all appealing in their physical design. . They all use a single piece pen barrel, as opposed to the two piece barrel of the slimline. . These 3 pen kits have definite potential appeal to the ladies but maybe not so much to men ... who knows !

I cannot recommend the Tiny Giant because, although you can fit a quality Parker-style refill to it, it has a snap-on cap which you have to remove in order to write.  The snap cap is not only inconvenient (it does not post to the rear of the pen when writing, as far as I know), but it is not aesthetically pleasing in form and taking it off and replacing it is a sort of rough operation required a bit of effort ... in my opinion.

I also do not recommend the Long Clicker mentioned above (Long Clicker is a CSUSA pen kit ... or Dayacom ... and has good quality) because it has a very clunky click mechanism ... you can feel the click very distinctly and you can  hear it easily across the room. .  I do not understand why the manufacturer does not improve this because quiet click mechanisms are not rocket science. . But that pen is an old design and modern advances do not get adopted very readily in pen science.

The closest I have come to a slimline format with quality potential is the Slimline Pro kit from PSI (others sell it, but I believe it is a PSI design).  It uses Parker so is slightly fatter than the slimline (slimline brass tube = 7mm nominal, Slimline Pro tube = 8 mm nom.)

I know ladies like a slimmer pen and that is part of the slimline appeal, but don't forget that the slimline is a twist pen and that requires two hands for most people.  It is not a great choice for everyday use by people like nurses who need a pen with one-handed operation.

The Slimline Pro is a click pen, so would be suitable for nurses and others with similar requirements.  It is also a two barrel pen, but that is an incidental fact since the two barrels are not required to move relative to each other as in the slimline.

I like the Slimline Pro concept very much, mainly because it is slim-ish AND because it is a click. . But also because ....

I like the Slimline Pro best for another possibility it presents.  Instead of making two barrels and joining them (permanently) with a coupler and center band, this kit can be made with just one, long barrel. .  And that is neat, because it looks good ... shows off both the material you use and your workmanship in turning and polishing. .  Plus it allows you to do innovative things with the long barrel. . I have been making Slimline Pro pens with a single barrel for a couple of years and am really thrilled with how they look and feel (long polished barrel). . You can even make them without any brass tubes at all.  This is neat also, because you can get away with a smaller diameter hole through the pen blank, just big enough for the Parker refill to slide through, and the smaller diameter hole allows you to have thicker material, obviously. . I am referring to the difference between the inner diameter and the outer diameter of the barrel .. The thing that could be better about the Slimline Pro is that the metal components and platings could be much improved if the manufacturer would only consider these options.  If that were done, the Slimline Pro could actually be a high-end slim-ish pen.

You can also make the slimline pen as a single barrel pen with no center band ... see an article or two in the IAP Library.  However you are still stuck with the inferior Cross style refill.

Just for the record, there is an article in the IAP Library for making the Cigar pen in a single barrel version instead of the two barrel original design. .  So this offers you the opportunity of making the Cigar overall slimmer than originally designed, and, I think rather appealing to a wider clientele, perhaps even some of the ladies.  The Cigar pen kit can be bought with fairly high-end hardware platings (Black Titanium, and Titanium Gold, to name just two). .  So maybe the single barrel version of the Cigar might suit your requirements. . I have posted a pic of a Cigar with a full-length segmented wood barrel.  You can view it in my photos.

There really are a lot of options if you put on your innovative/creative cap.

But you need a basic set of skills and perhaps some improved tools to implement these options.

Going through the learning processes (perhaps with standard kit pens) and keeping your senses alert and aware to alternative methods/materials is a first key phase of getting to your objectives of quality high-end slim-ish pens.

The manufacturers of pen kits could really help us out a lot, and sell more pen kits to us, if they would listen to learn what we want.
Improved plating quality would be very welcome, as would improved/innovative design of hardware components. . (NOT most of the fairly recent hardware innovations being sold by PSI). . I think that people who like quality pens would be very willing to pay for any reasonable additional cost of the kits.


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## greenacres2 (Mar 16, 2018)

magpens said:


> (snipped)...
> Just for the record, there is an article in the IAP Library for making the Cigar pen in a single barrel version instead of the two barrel original design.  So this offers you the opportunity of making the Cigar overall slimmer than originally designed, and, I think rather appealing to a wider clientele, perhaps even some of the ladies.  The Cigar pen kit can be bought with fairly high-end hardware platings (Black Titanium, and Titanium Gold, to name just two).  So it might be that the single barrel version of the Cigar might suit your requirements.
> ...(more snipping)



So...the single barrel Cigar article in the Library should work for variations of Cigar hardware as well?  I'm thinking the Ultra Cigar at the moment.  
Thanks.
earl


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## leehljp (Mar 16, 2018)

I am going to chime in on this. Some people just don't get it. 

Some people and more women in particular want a SLIM pen. PERIOD. Not fat, not big, but slim. To denote the inadequacies and try to move people to a "better writing option" (refill) you loose a customer. Sometimes some people are not interested in the finest "writing" option, but the best "feel" for them.

These people usually want a pen to sign checks, give signatures, take short notes and have around for things like that. No fancy long letter writing for those everyday situations.

My high school 6ft tall 200 lb physics teacher (long retired and deals in precious metals in retirement, highly educated and a connection with MIT) - he likes my pens but he loves SLIM, slimmer than Cross refill (7mm) pens, if they are available. I have been thinking of making a custom pen just for him.

I know you guys like to go to the BIG, but some people do prefer slim. I understand that but sure wish we had an alternative on the slim side - with quality. 

There is a market for SLIMs and higher quality slims, if the manufacturers would take notice.


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## MRDucks2 (Mar 16, 2018)

One of my old Norwegian bosses would say “Mal is of strong voice today.”  Which is not a put down, he would just use it on me when I said a lot to make a point. 

But Mal is correct. I would agree the the Tiny Giant or Editor is not a good option as it is not close to conveying high quality, though the cap does post. 

One point I want to make (my turn to be of strong voice, lol) is what you are looking for depends partly on how you make a slimline now. Here is a photo of the Tiny Giant/Editor on the left, a Princess in the center (both using Parker) and a “slimline” Euro/Designer on the right. My slimlines aren’t that slim and all three pens end up similar in size.


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## ed4copies (Mar 16, 2018)

As I understand it, having talked with several "industry experts" over the years, you can't make ink flow well through a tiny tube.  So, Cross will never equal Parker and other larger writing tubes.

I have no argument with those who like thin, I merely inform them that they give up the best writing experience in order to keep their pen tiny--everyone is entitled to make their own decisions, even IF those choices result in less-than-optimal performance!!


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## magpens (Mar 16, 2018)

Answers to:

Earl .... Yes, you can do the same thing with all Cigars, including the Ultra, bearing in mind that some of the components are not used, and in the case of the Ultra especially the styling of the hardware is a primary feature and you will be throwing away the nice center band.

Hank .... I think you know that I am not advocating BIG at all and I don't read that into any part of my post ... but, as I said, I think you know that. . I like small and slim also, but quality is paramount and we do not have that in the current parade of slims.

Mike .... I do not feel put down at all by anything you said, and, indeed, I feel supported by your comments.  I accept that I get passionate about pens and I get frustrated with pen kit makers and I know that those aspects of my writing show through and that is OK ... somebody has to say these things.

With regard to your "“Mal is of strong voice today.”  Which is not a put down, he (Mike's boss who called Mike a 'strong voice') would just use it on me when I said a lot to make a point. " .. I have this to say .... (and take it lightly, please) .... to make a point usually requires words; and to make a point *clearly* often requires more (perhaps, "a lot of") words (although the reverse need not be true); I strive for clarity with my "more" words ... but I try not to overdo quantity :biggrin: - LOL - I do edit after I write ... sometimes several times.

Ed .... We are on the same page.  I like big (thick) as well as small (slim) ... depends on the application !! . It is obvious that the OP is about small.


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## McKenzie Penworks (Mar 16, 2018)

There are 2 very nice slimmer pens on the market I think.

1. Zoe - I think this is the best of the twist options. It does have a crystal in it that can be either a good thing or a bad thing depending on your audience.

2. Tempest - Beaufort ink pen, so you know it's going to be a good one. Probably one of the best clicker pens out there and it is definitely thin. 

Depending on whether my customer wants a twist or click mechanism those are my go-tos. Either way is thin while retaining the much nicer writing (in my opinion) Parker refill.


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## magpens (Mar 16, 2018)

McKenzie Penworks said:


> There are 2 very nice slimmer pens on the market I think.
> 
> 1. Zoe - I think this is the best of the twist options. It does have a crystal in it that can be either a good thing or a bad thing depending on your audience.
> 
> ...



Please, Tim, just clarify what you mean by "slimmer".  Both of the kits you mention use Parker-style refills. . It seems that in the OP, it is almost implied that slim = Cross.

The Zoe (Parker twist) uses 8mm brass and is similar in architecture to the Slimline Pro but is more elegant and is a twist pen in contrast to the Slimline Pro. . The Canadian distributor calls this pen the Regal and it is a Dayacom kit and is good quality.

The Tempest (Parker click) uses two different sized tubes requiring drills of 10.3mm and size "O" so it is approaching the Cigar in size and I would not call it "definitely slim" ... but I believe it to be good (as in quality).


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## McKenzie Penworks (Mar 16, 2018)

They certainly aren't in the slim line family but they are on the slimmer side. The top half of the tempest may be a little chunky but if you turn the bottom straight it ends up feeling very slim in the hand. I think a lot of the issue for newer turners is the tendency to turn fat in the middle. Hold a narrow body the entire way and they are certainly not wide bodied pens.

For the record I'm not implying you can't turn them slim.  I've just done well with both of those when people ask for a slimmer pen style. I hate slim lines and will admit I'm biased against them.


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## leehljp (Mar 16, 2018)

McKenzie Penworks said:


> For the record I'm not implying you can't turn them slim.  I've just done well with both of those when people ask for a slimmer pen style. I hate slim lines and will admit I'm biased against them.



This is where the problem comes in when discussing slim pens - Bias. It isn't about satisfying us the maker (IF we sell to the public), but about what some other people want -and our obstinance for a solution other than trying to "move them up" to what WE like. Remember the OP is about finding a higher quality slimline like pen, not a thick pen turned down 2mm thicker than a slim. 

This kinda reminds me of my cousin looking for a pickup recently. Cousin to salesman: I want a long bed two door to haul stuff (4x8 sheets of plywood on occasion). For some reason the salesman tried to argue that he didn't need a long bed. WHAT? I am the buyer and I know what I need - he said. He told the salesman if he didn't want to sell him what he wanted, he would go somewhere else. I told my cousin - Next time, wear your coveralls instead of a business suit so the salesman won't think you are road warrior instead of than a farmer! :biggrin:


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## McKenzie Penworks (Mar 16, 2018)

I should probably ALSO mention I sold cars for 5 years in my early 20's, and did quite well at it. However, that's because I helped guide folks to what they needed, and didn't just assume they needed something else. I'll turn a slim line if I absolutely must, but that doesn't mean I won't offer some alternatives that fulfill the basic need of being easy to hold while offering other benefits like better plating, superior ink options, etc. If they STILL want a slim line, I'll send them to Mal :devil:


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## magpens (Mar 16, 2018)

Don't you dare !!!! . I do not enjoy making slimlines any more than you do, Tim !

Hey ... you wanna buy a car ? ... Have I got a deal for you !!!!


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## Dehn0045 (Mar 16, 2018)

I'd love to hear what Howard Moskowitz (or Malcolm Gladwell) has to say about the psychophysics of pens 

https://www.ted.com/talks/malcolm_gladwell_on_spaghetti_sauce/transcript


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## PatrickR (Mar 16, 2018)

Does Silver Pen Parts make a 7mm?
Judging by my wife, anything larger than a slimline is masculine. She could care less what kind of refill it uses. Just so its slim and cute. If I was selling I’d make them mostly in feminine colors etc.
I’m with Mal on the slimline pro. I really like them but they are not really a slim pen.
I also love the tempest, a great edc pen. Still to big to qualify as slim.


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## magpens (Mar 16, 2018)

Silver Pen Parts does not offer a 7 mm pen design. . That should tell us something.


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## magpens (Mar 17, 2018)

> I'd love to hear what Howard Moskowitz (or Malcolm Gladwell) has to say about the psychophysics of pens


Sam .... here is the essence of it ...

People don't know what they want! As Howard loves to say, "The mind knows not what the writing hand wants." It's a mystery!

That is the final, and I think most beautiful lesson, of Howard Moskowitz: that in embracing the diversity of pens, we will find a surer way to true happiness.


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## PenPal (Mar 17, 2018)

With regard to the best of refills to use for Slimlines way out in front are those fitted and sold by Beaufort Pens in the UK also in USA by Signature Pen Supply. Economic ,hold more ink and guaranteed.They are Custom made in Europe. Check out his site. Making slimlines thin gives a very fine thickness of timber or acrylic on the pen could be likened to a veneer.

Peter.


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## More4dan (Mar 17, 2018)

No one is discussing kitless slim body pens. I wonder how slim I could make a pen with a Parker or rollerball refill or ultra slim with a Cross refill?  Has anyone attempted this?  I’ve got a fountain pen with a standard ink converter about as small and light as possible. A “slimline” would be an interesting challenge. 


Sent from my iPhone using Penturners.org mobile app


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## magpens (Mar 17, 2018)

Dan, does your concept of " kitless slim" exclude using a Parker refill ??

If not, I make such semi-kitless pens every week and have mentioned that fact here.

I said I would post my method but have not done so ... too busy making them.

The "semi" qualifier means this : ... for these I use some of the Slimline Pro hardware (tip, clicker, clip) for convenience only, but no brass tubes and no centerband/coupler.

BUT Note :  My 3rd place 2018 BASH pen goes even further and *is* kitless (except for clicker).  It even has custom tip and plunger, both of which I made. . But it is not slim ... it is actually fatter than just about any pen.

So you may think this is an irrelevant post but all the accepted kitless requirments are there, and all you have to do is make it "slim" including a Parker.  That is really no further challenge than the pen I presented to BASH. . An aluminum barrel of 0.33" O.D. and .. done.

I guess I should go that extra step.


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## PatrickR (Mar 17, 2018)

The slimline pro hardware is the limiting factor. Nib and clip are
.426 +/1. To me that is bigger than “slim”. There are a lot of clips available singly, but not a lot of nibs and they are hard to make.
A Schmidt clicker is .345 and a Tempest nib is .330 (the same as a slimline nib). This would make a nice combo. If only the nib was available singly.


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## MRDucks2 (Mar 17, 2018)

My wife prefers a bulkier pen, not huge but she likes a little meat on them. Sister-in-law that’s a nurse is same way. Custom shape for her in a Knurl GT and it was not slim. Both daughters (21 & 30 something) have also picked more robust pens. So it really can’t be simply a female thing. 

To Hanks point, we all have bias. Some of it is shaped by personal preference, some by what we are exposed to and even a little of it may be based on actual justified evidence from facts or experience. 

Funny thing is when I feel I may be biased or lacked knowledge or experience, I turn to those who I either have developed some trust in, note their experience or knowledge can help me or find my biases tend to align with theirs.  What’s funny about it? 3/4 of the people in this post/thread are some of those I have turned to. 



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## jennera (Mar 17, 2018)

It probably isnt considered "high end" but we like the Tec 7 twist kits sold by PSI though we buy them from ExocticBlanks.com.   Exoctic ships them with both stylus tips and the flat ends.

I also like the Editors and have sold a few of those to ladies who keep with their Bibles or checkbooks.   They do not seem to mind the cap and it is postable.

The Editors take the Parker style refills if you are trying to stay away from the Crosz refills.

Again, not necessarily high end but they arw nice slim pens.


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


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## jennera (Mar 17, 2018)

We like the Chic Line V2's also.  Lots of people seem to like them with a waspish shape to them.  Personally, I just like them straight.  They use the Cross refills.

Again, not high end but a nice 7mm kit.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


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## magpens (Mar 17, 2018)

More4dan said:


> No one is discussing kitless slim body pens. I wonder how slim I could make a pen with a Parker or rollerball refill or ultra slim with a Cross refill?  Has anyone attempted this?  I’ve got a fountain pen with a standard ink converter about as small and light as possible. A “slimline” would be an interesting challenge.



In response to Danny, I have started a thread about what should be expected in a Kitless Slimline.

Please think about and post suggestions here:

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f14/what-would-you-like-see-kitless-slimline-153969/#post1973065


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## PatrickR (Mar 17, 2018)

I checked Silver Pens site and it appears they do make a 7mm. A twist slimline style and a clicker. I have no experience with these and price will be an issue for most but they should qualify as “High end”

http://www.silverpenparts.com/page58.html

http://silverpenparts.com/page59.html


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## magpens (Mar 17, 2018)

Good to hear ! . Sorry about the misinformation !


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