# Table saw question



## dwilasnd (Nov 7, 2005)

I am going to arrange for some permission to buy a new saw.

I want one that has a router table attached, space saving and all.
I am hoping to keep the price tag under $500.

Is this doable? And what do you suggest?


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## woodbutcher (Nov 8, 2005)

Ryobi makes one. Noticed it tonight while at Home Depot. The price was $300.00. Not a bad saw if it isn't used hard.

                                        Jim


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## Jim Boyd (Nov 8, 2005)

> _Originally posted by woodbutcher_
> <br />Ryobi makes one. Noticed it tonight while at Home Depot. The price was $300.00. Not a bad saw if it isn't used hard.
> 
> Jim



And there is a site that harbors users of that saw.BTCentral


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## ctEaglesc (Nov 8, 2005)

Any brand of contarctors saw can have a router table made to be included with it.
The udea is to get the best saw for the buck, sometimes used is a good option.
A router table is nothing more than a flat borad with a router mounted under neath.
The fence is no brain teazer as it does not have to be parallel with anything.


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## alamocdc (Nov 8, 2005)

You can easily find router tables made to mount in both contractor and cabinet saws. They have the same width dimensions. Rockler, Hartville Tool and a slew of other companies make router tables and they are all a standard 27" width. That just happens to be the dimension between the rails of good TS's.


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## ctEaglesc (Nov 8, 2005)

WHy is it that people who want to buy tools think that everything they need to make whatever their hearts desire needs to be purchased.
Building jigs, fixtures, and even tools like router tables gives you the opportunity to practice and gain valuable experience in woodworking.
Certainly if you are contemplating buying a table saw one would surmise that you want to be a woodworker.
Jsut because a tool is "commercially  made" doesn't mean that it is necessarily accurate.
If yoiu look at what to cost of the materials is in a router table(without "T" tracks" a piece of melamine 49"x97" 3/4" thick can be bought for under $30.00 and I have paid as little as $20.00 for a sheet at a cabinet  makers supply house.
It is ridiculous to pay what they ask for a "commercially  made" router table.


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## dwilasnd (Nov 8, 2005)

Eagle, I wholeheartedly agree. I guess my post should have read... I want to have a router attached to my table saw to save some space.

I have a Ryobi $99 special now. I want to get a better one, and attach a router table.


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## dfurlano (Nov 8, 2005)

so what should someone look for in a table saw?


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## Ron in Drums PA (Nov 8, 2005)

My first router table was a sheet of 1/4 aluminum which sat on a box. I used a 2x4 with clamps as a fence.

My second router table was a sheet of melamine mounted on the right side of my table saw. I use the fence for the table saw and router table. I built this before I ever saw a combo unit, but I doubt if mine was the first one.

My third router table is a copy Norm Abramms router table. I made some modifications to suit me, funny thing is I noticed he made some of the same modifications on his second table. This sit behind my table and seconds as a outfeed table.

With these two tables I can safely cut 4x8 sheets of plywood on my table saw.

My advice is to buy a decent tablesaw for the $500 you want to send and build your own router table. You will learn allot by doing so.


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## wdcav1952 (Nov 8, 2005)

Eagle,

An even easier way to obtain a router table is the route (pun intended!) I took.  My brother had a router and router table.  When a woodworking friend passed away, the widow gave him piles of tools, sandpaper and assorted equipment.  Included was a router and router table, which he gave me.  Easy as pie!  [][][]


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## alamocdc (Nov 8, 2005)

> _Originally posted by cteaglesc_
> <br />WHy is it that people who want to buy tools think that everything they need to make whatever their hearts desire needs to be purchased.
> Building jigs, fixtures, and even tools like router tables gives you the opportunity to practice and gain valuable experience in woodworking.
> Certainly if you are contemplating buying a table saw one would surmise that you want to be a woodworker.
> ...


Agreed. That's why I made the router table mounted in my contratcotrs saw. It was MUCH less expensive, including the extruded aluminum t-track (bought on sale at Rockler). I was simply pointing out an alternative for those less inclined.


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## alamocdc (Nov 8, 2005)

> _Originally posted by dfurlano_
> <br />so what should someone look for in a table saw?


Dan, it depends on what you want to do with it and how much use it gets, but I would stay away from any TS with a universal motor (direct drive). If it isn't belt driven, you don't want it. Been there, done that. Also, the saw needs to have some weight to it. Especially if you intend to cut stock of any substance. Bought that t-shirt too. That's why I will only recommend a good contractor's saw or cabinet saw. Wore the t-shirt out on a lighter weight saw building a simple set of night stands. My panel sled was almost as heavy as the saw. []


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## Mikey (Nov 8, 2005)

Which TS to buy all depends on what you plan on doing with it. If you pnal on cutting pen and stopper blanks, then teh Ryobi with their small router attachment is just fine. If you plan on building anything else, I would suggest at the minimum a decent Contractor's saw with a homemade router table (very easy to make) The best buy would be a used Contractor's saw with cast iron wings as it will be heavy and stable, and most likely only run you about $350.


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## dfurlano (Nov 8, 2005)

I mostly do small items such as boxes, smaller wall shelving and turnings.  Nothing on the scale of cabinets or large furniture.  I am surprised by the direct drive comment, I assumed that they would be better due to the lack of torque loss and lower vibration because there is no belt. 

Frustrating part for me is the fence and tilt mechanisms.  Neither seem to work very well unless you spend a lot of money.  Has anyone had any success in buying, creating or modifying a fence and tilt system that is reliable without spending a lot of money?

I was looking at contractor saws from Woodcraft and they easily run $700 - $1000 which seems like a lot of money to me for nothing moe then a motor, fancy fence and cast metal.

Thanks for the comments.


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## ctEaglesc (Nov 8, 2005)

It is ironic that this thread came up today.
Though my mainstay is a Grizly contractors saw that I use for my blanks(inlays, veneers etc there are times when it would be nice to have another saw for cuts and not have to change the setting on my Grizzly.
A few weeks ago I  picked up a BT3000(missing some parts) at a flea market.
(The power of a corn cob pen) $6.00 and the pen and the guy helped me dissassemble it and load it in my trunk.
I just came in from making a few test cust and am very impressed with my recent purchase.
Will it replace  the Grizz?
Nope.
Is it worth $6.00.
Yep.
I plan to make it a dedicated saw for inlays and such.
Don't have the time to do it right now but the most important parts are there for what I want it for.
What ever is missing I'll make to suit my needs.[]
As far as what type or which saw to get.
As already expressed it depends on what your plans are.
I have always liked woodworking but have come to the conclusion that not all pen turners are wood workers.
The need for a saw for some is for rough cutting blanks.
that can be done on a number of tools, some work better than others but in the end the object is to separte two sections of wood with a blade that is motorized in some way.
I have done some pretty prescison work with a circular saw bolted up under a piece of old counter top.
(Don't tell me about guards and such, I know, I would not reccomend that route for anyone who has not had experience with a tablesaw.)
I started running saws long before the government started to try to keep us in a plastic bubble and manufacturers had to put guards on every dam thing because of teh litigous society we live in.
Nuber one rule is to keep body parts away from sharp spinning things.
Number two rule is if you don't think it is a safe cut, it probably isn't.If it is  lack of confidence in execution of the cut shows, 1. you have good judgement and 2.You have a healthy respect for the tool.
If you have fear of the tool you have no business operating it until you understand how to use it.
The joke about the rednecks famous last words,"hey watch this"
is funny for a reasoon.
My experience with router tables is much like Ron's though I haven't gone the Norm route yet.
I will someday when I can dedicate more space in my small shop to flat wrk.
Right now if I need a roter table I just get a piece of sheet stock, cut to suit what I am working on and in a few minutes have a "router table" that might wind up being an entirely different jig by the end of the day.[]

If you go to some of the WWking forums you will see somewhere the question"which tablesaw should I buy?"
Tool snobs for for the most expensive(third time used)but the bottom line is you want to be able for the most part to separate a piece of wood into 2 halves with 90* edges.
People have been doing that for centuries long before motorized saw were invented.
BTW In case anyone wants to know the circular saw blade was invented and patented by a woman.


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## alamocdc (Nov 8, 2005)

> _Originally posted by dfurlano_
> <br />I was looking at contractor saws from Woodcraft and they easily run $700 - $1000 which seems like a lot of money to me for nothing moe then a motor, fancy fence and cast metal.


You don't want to buy a TS from Woodcraft. They want way too much for them (and most everything else from what I've seen). I got my Delta contractor saw at Lowes on sale for about $400 and it's a $650 saw. There are deals to be had if you're willing to look for them. If I hadn't found the Delta, I was about to order the Grizzly. http://www.grizzly.com/products/item.aspx?itemnumber=G0444 It's a good saw and for $895 you can get the cabinet model.


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## Ron in Drums PA (Nov 8, 2005)

> _Originally posted by cteaglesc_
> I have done some pretty prescison work with a circular saw bolted up under a piece of old counter top.



And here I thought I was the only dummy who did that. Scares me when I think how I handled plywood though that setup. 



> _Originally posted by cteaglesc_
> BTW In case anyone wants to know the circular saw blade was invented and patented by a woman.



A shaker women at that


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## ctEaglesc (Nov 8, 2005)

"I am going to arrange for some permission to buy a new saw."
If there is one thing you must learn if you are going to get into woodworking  and tool purchases big time.
Write this down and commit it to memory.
Most of the successful woodorkers and wood butchers live by this phrase.
If your wife or non woodworking spouse is in the room ask them to leave.
It is important that only you know this secret caveat.
It has been handed down from generation s of woodworkers and now I hand it down to you.

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"It is wiser to ask for forgivness than to ask for permission"...
Just go out and buy the DAM saw!"


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## fritzmccorkle (Nov 8, 2005)

in the military the saying went...."it's easier to beg for forgiveness than ask for permission"  pretty close, and of course...eagle is right.


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## dwilasnd (Nov 8, 2005)

The nice thing about my wife is that she understands the need to buy tools... 
She sews, and that dang serger was expensive. So was the machine, etc, etc, etc.

she also likes the pens, so we were talking about Christmas, and she said "You want 'Permission to spend' for Christmas?"

Other times a new tool just appears overnight, and she doen't notice (more likely just dones't say anything.)


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## Ron in Drums PA (Nov 8, 2005)

I always waited until SWMBO wanted me to build something for her. I  told her I would need to buy a certain machine to complete the job. The biggest most expensive machines I got when SWMBO wanted me to build something for her mother. 

Always worked for me . . .  the machine doesn't even have to be used for the job in hand. . . I know. . . because I have 5 routers


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## ctEaglesc (Nov 8, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Ron in Drums PA_
> <br />I always waited until SWMBO wanted me to build something for her. I  told her I would need to buy a certain machine to complete the job. The biggest most expensive machines I got when SWMBO wanted me to build something for her mother.
> 
> Always worked for me . . .  the machine doesn't even have to be used for the job in hand. . . I know. . . because I have 5 routers


Do  you get another router if you buy another bit?
That worked for me until my third bit, then she stopped "biting"[]


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## Ron in Drums PA (Nov 8, 2005)

> _Originally posted by cteaglesc_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...



Actually I did that the first time I had to make dovetails. I bought the bit, the router and the dovetail jig. 

It's nice having a dedicated router and bit always setup. The only time I need to change the setup is to sharpen the bit.


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## fritzmccorkle (Nov 8, 2005)

ok, since the topic is moving in this direction....here's my definition of the world's greatest wife.  i had started penturning and of course needed a larger drill press (jet 17inch on rolling stand etc) it wasn't just the price of the drill press, but when we walked out of woodcraft that day they had $650 of HER money.  then i bought a little chunk of snakewood and had to have a bandsaw to cut it with (this was immediately following the drill press...probably next weekend) so she actually pays for half of a new bandsaw.  sometime in the next couple of days she asked me what i wanted for Christmas which was closely approaching.  i almost passed out.  that is the worlds greatest wife (and she always sports the best pens)


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## wood-of-1kind (Nov 8, 2005)

How is it that everything comes back the female gender controlling what tools and material is purchased by the turners here? Is it an American thing or what? Forgive my chauvanistic question here but I needs to know. Any man out there that has the 'cajones' to answer without being smacked by their LOML[B)].


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## ctEaglesc (Nov 8, 2005)

> _Originally posted by wood-of-1kind_
> <br />How is it that everything comes back the female gender controlling what tools and material is purchased by the turners here? Is it an American thing or what? Forgive my chauvanistic question here but I needs to know. Any man out there that has the 'cajones' to answer without being smacked by their LOML[B)].


Some people say
SWMBO
She Who Must be Obeyed.
I use a different one.
SWIUI
She Who IS Usually Ignored.


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## Murphy (Nov 8, 2005)

I don't know but it sounds like you guys have it pretty tough.  Being a woman I buy what I want when I want.  I have at least one of just about every tool known to mankind ( ahem, or womankind).  All I have to do is let my husband pretend some of them belong to him once in a while.Being a woman though I can't resist a good sale and so I have duplicates of many things.  Been collecting for a long time though.
My sweety even helped me move a 100+ year old log cabin into our backyard to use for a workshop.  That was no small feat as the cabin is 18' long and the yard is only 25' wide.  I live in the middle of Toronto (a very large city for all of you southerners that may not get up this far).


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## wood-of-1kind (Nov 9, 2005)

Eagle, that is why you fly above all others.


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