# Lacquer finish



## avbill (Mar 26, 2008)

I bought a Deft Gloss brush able lacquer finish.  I trying it on a Rosewood blank.  I have placed 10 coats [thin coats]  I sanded after the fifth coat.  and then a second five coats.  I allowed  overnight drying.  I finished polishing thru to 12,0000mm and white dia buff. 

The result has a soft gloss shine to it.  Its not very glossy as a CA but you can feel the wood.    My desire was to have a higher gloss. 

Should i continue to place additional coats on. [thin] or
Should i place thick coats on the pen. 

If any of you have an idea please comment.  Tomorrow I will take photo and post. 

Bill Daniels


----------



## alamocdc (Mar 26, 2008)

Bill, part of the problem may be the cure time. I let my lacquered pens dry at least 5 days before sanding and buffing them out.


----------



## DCBluesman (Mar 26, 2008)

You need to add more coats of lacquer, then let it sit for a week.  Unless it REALLY needs sanding, go straight to the white diamond.


----------



## Paul Downes (Mar 26, 2008)

I hope you don't mind me hijacking this thread.........I am going to start using a lacquer finish on pens and was wondering if you guys use the acrilyic enhanced lacquers? I am not sure which lacquers end up with the hardest finish.


----------



## alamocdc (Mar 26, 2008)

Paul, I'm certainly no lacquer expert. I only know what works for me. I use Deft Gloss brushing lacquer, but I dip, not brush or spray mine. For me it results in fewer (3-4) coats and I get a more even finish. I used the word "sanding" in my previous post, but I have actually yet to touch a piece of sandpaper to my lacquer. I usually just buff it out on the lathe.


----------



## Freethinker (Mar 27, 2008)

> _Originally posted by alamocdc_
> 
> Paul, I'm certainly no lacquer expert. I only know what works for me. I use Deft Gloss brushing lacquer, but I dip, not brush or spray mine. For me it results in fewer (3-4) coats and I get a more even finish.



Just curious....do you use the same brand of dipping lacquer that is sold at Penn State's online site?

That's the only place I can find it. Do any local paint/hardware retailers in your area sell it?


----------



## jeffj13 (Mar 27, 2008)

As has been previously stated, you are not letting the lacquer cure for a long enough period of time.  I usually wait a week, longer is probably even better.

imho, you don't need more coats, 10 should be enough.  I usually use 12 coats, but I use an airbrush and they are very thin coats.

jeff


----------



## doddman70 (Mar 27, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Freethinker_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I donâ€™t know anything about the dipping lacquer from psi but I use the Deft brushing lacquer gloss that I can get from my local big box hardware store paint dept and use it to dip my pens. for the most part I donâ€™t need to sand after except when I get some flaking at the ends when I remove the bushings. does anybody have any recommendations to keep that from happening?


----------



## alamocdc (Mar 27, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Freethinker_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Paul Downes (Mar 27, 2008)

My question goes more to the durability of the different lacquer types. I understand that the older styles of lacquer were not that durable. I think the catalyized lacquers get much harder. My memory is a bit vauge on which type is best for durability, but i think the acrylic lacquers attain the hardest finishes. I guess I'll have to go study this. I think there are some lacquers that you activate with a catalyist and have to use in a day or so that get a very hard durable finish. I think it is used on things like dining room tables for that reason.


----------



## avbill (Mar 27, 2008)

I hear many of you say you dip your pens into lacquer. 

after you dip the blank into the quart of lacquer you hang the blank and  let it dry.  I would assume the lacquer (brushable} would run.  Is my assumption correct.  After drying do you not have drips at the end of the pens to sand off?  

I have read all the the entries in finishing and i have not seen a how to/step by step procedure for dipping lacquer.  Can anyone clarify? 

thankyou.  bill


----------



## tcmoog (Mar 28, 2008)

I dip a folded piece of paper towel in the lacquer and apply it to the blank while the lathe is turning. I put six coats on one right after the other. I get a good gloss coat without buffing.


----------



## Rifleman1776 (Mar 28, 2008)

I have used Deft spray for a couple years successfully. Recently, I decided to try Deft brush on as an economy measure. Brushing was a mess. Not smooth and drippy even when trying to use an almost dry brush. I then tried dipping and hanging or standing on end. Another failure as the lacquer ran and formed a glob at the bottom. Then, after reading a technique by a penturner on a woodworking forum, I started just dipping a finger in the lacquer and applying, with lathe running, with my finger. I rub it in until I feel it begin to get a little sticky, wait a few seconds then apply more. The other day I finished an order of seven Euros. Six looked fine. One soaked up the lacquer and just wouldn't shine well. I probably should have sealed first and been more patient and added more layers. Lacquer will work fine. You must develop your own technique.


----------



## rstought (Mar 28, 2008)

I'm a "dipper", too, and have gotten very good results using Deft Waterborne Clear Wood Finish (gloss).

I have created some little jigs using 1/4 threaded rod and 1" flat stock where I can dip both pen barrels at the same time (later variations of the jig have the capability of doing 4 barrels at a time, which saves time).  I use the appropriate bushing on the lower end of the barrel and a little Delrin cone that I have turned on the upper end of the barrel (the cone's main purpose is to plug the hole, but it also allows some lacquer to coat the ends of the barrel.  I always need to do a little touchup sanding, so I don't know how much value this provides.  Might make sense just to use thin CA).  I then slide the barrels onto the rods, secure them with wingnuts, and dip the barrels into the lacquer.  I let them hang, drip and dry for about 1.5 hours, then reverse them on the rods and dip for a second coat.  After another 1.5 hours of dripping and drying, I remove them from the rods and hang them up on some little hangers made from some stiff wire, and let them cure for about a week before finishing them.  "Finishing" in this case refers to buffing them out on the lathe with a little EEE cream, some plastics polish, and some Ren Wax.  Cleanup of the bushings, wing nuts and Delrin cones is easy - I just submerge them all in a little lacquer thinner, and after about an hour the stuff just falls right off.

I have found that the use of the bushing on the "drip" end of the barrel allows the excess lacquer to roll right off with no globbing or unexpected accumulation (although bushings on BOTH ends doesn't seem to work as well - this DOES tend to lead to globs on the upper end).  On the rare occasion when the planets are not aligned and I DO end up with a little glitch, it is usually easily knocked down with a (very) little wetsanding with 4000 grit Micromesh prior to my normal finishing routine.


----------



## doddman70 (Mar 28, 2008)

> _Originally posted by rstought_
> 
> I'm a "dipper", too, and have gotten very good results using Deft Waterborne Clear Wood Finish (gloss).
> 
> ...



Are you talking about EEE ultra shine paste wax? I thought that was more as a sealer prior to applying a finish? what does it do applying it after the lacquer has cured ??


----------



## rstought (Mar 28, 2008)

Yes, I am referring to EEE ultra shine paste wax (sorry for any confusion my use of the term "EEE cream" might have created - I just wanted to differentiate it from the EEE bars that are used with a buffer).  It is marketed as a "sealing/polishing" agent but is generally, I believe, used more for it's polishing capabilities rather than it's sealing capabilities (at least that's what I've always used it for).  

Can't say that I invented the process - I got the finishing tips from one of Steven Russell's monthly newsletters (Lathe Talk) where he discussed finishing lacquer pieces ("deluxing" is the term he uses).


----------



## RussFairfield (Mar 28, 2008)

For dipping, put a bushing the same size as the pen barrel at each end of the barrel. That way the lacquer runs down and across the pen, and the thin spot at the top and the bead around the bottom are eliminated. Make the bushings from anything that doesn't dissolve in lacquer thinner. 

It helps to dip twice from opposite ends to equalize the thickness of the film.

The advantage of the CAB-Acrylic lacquers are that they do not get as brittle or turn as yellow with age as a nitrocellulose lacquer such as Deft. It wlll be a little harder, and therefore more durable than a nitro-cellulose lacquer, but not enough that most of use could tell the difference. 

The catalyzed lacquers are a different story. They are among the hardest finish we can put on a pen, and are right up there with CA glue and Enduro for hardness.

Beware of equating absolute hardness with durability because there is a difference in the wear pattern of the different finishes. The harder finishes often are abraded with a very visible scratch pattern, while the wear on a softer finish may not be as visible.


----------



## avbill (Mar 28, 2008)

Well back to the workshop-- things to do  things to learn  thanks everyone!

Bill


----------



## Scott-n-KY (Apr 10, 2008)

Tom, ( tcmoog ) when applying it with a paper towel while on the Lathe...could you give us a little more details on how you do it ? Lathe speed, time between coats, etc.


----------

