# New Jr. Gent/Statesman RB Nib vs old nib



## gerryr (Dec 13, 2006)

Recently CSUSA changed the design of the nib on the Jr. Gentleman and Jr. Stateman rollerballs.  Some people have expressed a preference for the older style.  So, which do you prefer, new style or old style?  Hopefully, CSUSA will be listening.


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## Pikebite (Dec 13, 2006)

Old style! My customers hate the new style and I struggle to sell them.


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## LanceD (Dec 13, 2006)

Old style. Makes me want to use more Barons. I still have about 25 of the old style in Black Titanium and I'll use those sparingly.


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## bob393 (Dec 13, 2006)

I dunno, never turned one.


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## Geo in Winnipeg (Dec 13, 2006)

I prefer the old style as well.
I sell very, very few pens but I showed both the new and the old style to friends, relatives and neighbours. The concensus was 100% the old style. I did not try to sway them in any way. I just asked which they would prefer.
Considering the money they must have spent for retooling I don't think it's too likely CS will reconsider but hopefully they will realize they have made a not too popular change (if that's the way the poll goes).
Say, wouldn't it be nice if we could choose either nib like we do with the tapered or smooth end caps?


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## Randy_ (Dec 14, 2006)

Could someone please post a picture of the two side by side so we can see the difference? (Or individual pictures of each if no one still has both.)  Thanks.

Anyone know why CSUSA changed the nib?  Can't believe they did it just for the heck of it?  Is the new one cheaper to manufacture??  One would think they would do a little market study before changing the design??


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## gerryr (Dec 15, 2006)

Here's a picture of the old style
http://www.penturners.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=20021

and the new style
http://www.penturners.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=20003


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## woodpens (Dec 15, 2006)

I really dislike the new style. I'll stick with the Baron until they go back to the old style.


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## DCBluesman (Dec 15, 2006)

The new nib is "obscenely" phallic and a real turn off for everyone I've shown it to.  CS USA would be well advised to scrap this experiment and go back to the old design.  It is highly unlikely that I will purchase kits with these nibs unless the pen is a bachelor or bachelorette gift (or unless Hugh Hefner requests one).


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## les-smith (Dec 15, 2006)

Could someone post a picture of the old and new nib?  Please[]


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## gerryr (Dec 15, 2006)

> _Originally posted by les-smith_
> <br />Could someone post a picture of the old and new nib?  Please[]



See my post right under Randy's.  It contains links to pictures of both.


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## Nolan (Dec 15, 2006)

I like the old, really dont like the new look! I am glad you started this tread cuz I would not have know till next purchase!
Nolan


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## mewell (Dec 15, 2006)

Just an FYI ... I discovered that CSUSA is also tinkering with the diameter of the clips. This means that the top insert and the tube will be different! [!] I needed a replacement clip for a customer and was sent one from their new "replacement parts" bin and it was too small. The person I was working with pulled one from a older kit and measured it and it was (I think) about .1 inch larger. I also noted today that all the links for instructions in all the Jr. Gent II pens was gone from the product listings on CSUSA. Not sure what THAT means, but ....

Mark


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## vick (Dec 15, 2006)

The new style looks terrible.


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## Randy_ (Dec 15, 2006)

OK, here are the nibs posted side by side,  Gerry put links to the pictures in an earlier post; but this will be a little easier for most.

Old


New



Gerry:  Maybe you could go back and delete your post with the links in it.  It seems like it would be easier to see the nibs here; but folks will use the links since they will hit your post first.

But thanks very much for posting them!!


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## byounghusband (Dec 15, 2006)

I like the old style...  Too bad the kits I just got are ALL new style.....  []


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## Dario (Dec 15, 2006)

While I like how the old style better, I think the new style offers better grip while writing.

Hope someone who used both styles at length offer an observation on this (to validate or debunk).


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## gerryr (Dec 15, 2006)

I sent Eric an email suggesting he take a look at this poll.  After reading the post above I'm really concerned about ordering any kits from CSUSA right now for fear I will get something that doesn't look much like what I anticipated.  To me, it seems fairly outrageous to change things without at least warning people.  And, in this business, they really ought to be asking for opinions.


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## Randy_ (Dec 15, 2006)

[][][]

I sent him one, too!!


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## les-smith (Dec 15, 2006)

> _Originally posted by byounghusband_
> <br />I like the old style...  Too bad the kits I just got are ALL new style.....  []



Yep, me too.  Oh well, It'll let me work on my salesmanship.  I've never done a pen with the earlier version nib.  Maybe I'll never realize what I'm missing.


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## PenWorks (Dec 16, 2006)

Kind of looks like George Bush's popularity poll []
Bring back the old.


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## ericatcraft (Dec 18, 2006)

Thanks to those of you who brought this poll to my attention, I am still new at this and sometimes don't realize there are polls, etc. that require my attention.  I am one of the few who actually like the new nib as much as the old nib (I don't really prefer one over the other)- I think that it is much easier to write with.  
I have passed your suggestions along to the people here who are in charge of what we sell and make the decisions regarding our pen kits and I will post a thread if I find out anything new.  Thanks again.


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## Dario (Dec 18, 2006)

Eric,

I agree with you...the new one writes better due to improved grip.  The old one is more "slippery" due to its sleek design.

The old one does look better though and buyers tend to go with looks before they even try writing with it.  Hopefully the style catch on fast because I personally lean towards a better writing instrument over looks.


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## gerryr (Dec 18, 2006)

Eric,
Probably a bigger concern to all of us who use CS kits is the sudden and unannounced change.  And the rumor that there is yet another change in the works that we know nothing about doesn't give us the feeling that our opinion matters.  Introducing new kits is one thing, but making sudden changes to existing kits that are currently well received by us and our customers is an entirely different matter.  In addition, the quality of the new RB nibs is substandard.  Many people are having to manually ream the tip of the new nib so the refill will fit.


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## leehljp (Dec 18, 2006)

I like the old style also. I was just about to order some Jr Gents because CSUSA is one of the few companies that I can order from who will ship overseas AND accept my Japan billed USA credit card without having to use PayPal. I will still order what they have that I like. Great company and customer service though.

Looks like I will have to continue to order from BB and have my daughter send the pens here.


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## bradbn4 (Dec 18, 2006)

Gee - just finishing buying a mess of the new pens based on the old photo---drat is all I have to say.
Not sure what I will do now - I don't like the new style at all.  I hope the style will grow on me - otherwise I have 20+ kits that I am not sure I want to build. 

bradbn4


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## arioux (Dec 18, 2006)

Just innaceptable.  I have a funny feeling about this company and start to have more than enough.  High price, high problems!!

What serious company would change a product, without advising it's custommer and worst, showing an image in a catalog and sending an other different product. Bad bad bad[!]

They talk nice, show some great service when they can but at the end, they just proved me that they don't give a dam about their client. I have 5 kits that will probably go to the trash can.  Can not even make them for my kids, they look like phallus[V] and no one out of 13 people i show it to liked it.

Finish for me period.


Alfred


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## DCBluesman (Dec 18, 2006)

Rather than throwing anything out or giving up on them, have CS USA replace them with something that works for you.  A financial pinch may get more attention placed on this issue.


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## bradbn4 (Dec 19, 2006)

The real fun will be with the people who when in on the group buy for 479 kits $7,750 or so from CS USA.  Not all of them were with the pen kits that changed without notice.  But there is a fair group of people who are impacted.  And for the people within that group they should not have to go thru Dave Williams but thru CS USA to resolve any issues.

bradbn4


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## lwalden (Dec 19, 2006)

Guys, I don't believe this is just the Jr. Gent/Statesman- looks like the 8 Jr Emperor RB in Rhodium/22k I got during one of the recent bulk buys has this same tip as well, with the same problem of not enough clearance for the cartridge tip to extend and jamming in the nib.......


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## TellicoTurning (Dec 19, 2006)

Can't do any input here... don't think I have done the "new" style.. I like the Statesman.. nice pen.


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## Ron Mc (Dec 19, 2006)

I voted old nib do to the fact that I have already lost a long time customer over it. Not just your average customer. A collector that would purchase pens in the $200.00 - .....range several times a month.
Unfortunatly I just took apart several $300.00 pens to find that they have the problem as well. The pens I am referring to are JS II so now I need to see how many customers I need to contact to explain that they may have an issue when changing cartridges and how to prevent it before it happens.
I tried to unscrew the tip of the nib to see if I could replace with a different tip but, "alas" it doesn't unscrew at all. It's a pressure fit so the are no female threads.
Hopefully the decision makers will look closely at what both their customers and what our customers are saying.


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## KC (Dec 20, 2006)

I think I like the new one.  I liked the old one just fine, too.  I think it may be a stretch to call it 'phallic'...but people see things differently.  That said, I'd be very much irritated if I got the new design when I ordered the old without a heads-up.

KC


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## bradbn4 (Dec 20, 2006)

Pressure fit tips?  - - does that mean you can't make closed end versions of the JSII because you can't swap out the ink? I have only ordered these kits - I have not managed to get my hands on one yet.



Bradbn4


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## ericatcraft (Dec 20, 2006)

I have posted some information that may be of interest to you all regarding the Jr. Gent and Jr. Statesman pens and you can see it here:

http://www.penturners.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=20257

Hope it is of use to you!


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## Ron Mc (Dec 20, 2006)

I am only referring to the small tip at the end of the full nib configuration.


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## Rifleman1776 (Dec 20, 2006)

I prefer the old style. New one looks like something that would get Monica Lewinski excited.


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## keithz (Dec 24, 2006)

As I have never turned either style, I have nothing to judge on.  I have a couple Jr Gent IIs on thir way, so we'll see.

keithz


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## jaywood1207 (Dec 29, 2006)

I think the original poll here was what you like better.  I see a lot of responses here about why CS didn't ask for opinions before changing it.  I am not sticking up for them or putting them down as I don't deal with them.  Let me ask when the last time was the an automotive company or any other company requested permission or approval from the customers before coming out with a new design?  They have a business to run and if they choose to change their product to improve it for other reasons which they did according to Eric (threading issue) or for appearance only then that is their perogative.  If you don't like it then don't buy it and let them know which again has been done but I really don't think it's fair to expect them to get permission to make changes.  I'm not looking to turn this into an "ugly" thread but please consider their position before judging them.  This is all just my humble opinion.


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## Dario (Dec 29, 2006)

Jamie,

You are correct about the poll, and CSUSA's right to change designs...but the expressed concern is changing a current production pen.  No problem if they named it Jr Gent III or something.  Car manufacturers don't change their designs mid year do they?  []

FYI, I am one of the few who voted for the new design...though I did prefer the look of the old, the grip of the new one is better IMHO and for a pen, that matters more to me.


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## sandking (Dec 29, 2006)

> _Originally posted by arioux_
> <br />Just innaceptable.  I have a funny feeling about this company and start to have more than enough.  High price, high problems!!
> 
> What serious company would change a product, without advising it's custommer and worst, showing an image in a catalog and sending an other different product. Bad bad bad[!]
> ...



Are you serious?


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## Jim in Oakville (Dec 29, 2006)

> _Originally posted by arioux_
> <br />Just innaceptable.  I have a funny feeling about this company and start to have more than enough.  High price, high problems!!
> 
> What serious company would change a product, without advising it's custommer and worst, showing an image in a catalog and sending an other different product. Bad bad bad[!]
> ...



Hi Alfred,

Send me an email, I will buy them from you...

[]


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## DCBluesman (Dec 29, 2006)

Regardless of the position you take on the changes, CS USA still does a fine job with customer service.



> Good afternoon Lou,
> 
> I want to thank you for your email to us.  Iâ€™m sorry you are unhappy with the pens.  You are more than welcome to return those and we will exchange those for the fountain pens.  I will honor the 25% discount that those pens were purchased under.  Just send them back to us through the mail and we will take care of it as soon as we receive them.  If you have any questions, please feel free to contact us.  Thank you again and have a nice day.
> 
> ...


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## ed4copies (Dec 29, 2006)

> _Originally posted by DCBluesman_
> <br />Regardless of the position you take on the changes, CS USA still does a fine job with customer service.
> 
> 
> ...



Lou,

They ARE wonderful folks.

But the cynic in me says they are GOOD at customer service because they make so many mistakes!!!  We all gain from our experience!

(Of course, they COULD just have some highly-paid consultant type who TRAINS them well!!!)[][]


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## RussFairfield (Dec 29, 2006)

It has not always been good for Craft Supplies on the Internet. There was a time when they were a very abused company for their POOR customer service. I have never had a problem, but there were a lot of people who did. Add to that the tendency to "pile on" when somebody is down. 

They have indeed learned from their mistakes because it was good for business. I don't think they would still be around if the bad press they were getting 5 years ago was still going on.


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## ed4copies (Dec 29, 2006)

Interesting, Russ!

I was not on the internet in that time frame, but I dealt with CSUSA and never HAD a problem.  Then again, we (penturners) were frequently told the "kits" were a starting point, we should be able to modify them to work.  This was NOT specifically from CSUSA, it went throughout the "industry".

(Russ, I realize you know this, you were turning at that time, too.  However, the newer guys should realize we expect a LOT more now than we did then!!)


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