# A Rat's Tale



## skiprat

.......or should that be A Rat's Tail?:biggrin:

This is my latest concoction and I personally think it is the best pen I've ever made and I'm pretty chuffed with it.:redface::biggrin:

I took loads of pics and I'll post them in order.
I hope you like it as much as I do


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## skiprat

....and some more


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## skiprat

.....just a few more:biggrin:


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## skiprat

.....eventually:biggrin:


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## Gary Max

Dang----you do that all by hand---very impressive


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## OKLAHOMAN




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## WriteRev

Amazing. You've outdone yourself - and that's saying something!

Thanks for the inspiration.

Steve


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## Gordon

That's amazing !!


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## MarkHix

Is "chuffed" good?  If so, I am very chuffed!  That is the coolest pen!


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## markgum

Holy cow.....  i don't know if I can ever post a photo again.  
That is AMAZIN'!!!!!


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## altaciii

Steve,  How do you do that?  Here he goes again.  What a beautiful pen.  I know its getting harder and harder for you to create something better than the last one.  Somehow, you always come through.  Great job! and thanks for the mini tutorial.


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## cinder_ladylocket

The Man has Become KING of the pen world........gosh....thats astounding for sure!


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## rdunn12

Awesome work man!!Maybe one day you could just do a normal kit pen and make the rest of us feel better!


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## DCBluesman




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## CaptG

You are just freaking amazing.  And I do mean that in the best, most respectfull way.


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## leehljp

:star: Do you expect us to find mere words to describe that, or should we put the accolades to :musical-note: music? :musical-note: Anything less would be inadequate! :star:

For us mortals, could you please make an ugly wood pen and post the pictures? PLEASE! :biggrin:


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## arjudy

Wow. Impressive. Stupendous. Incredible. Splendiferous. Amazing. Unbelievable. :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

I don't think any of those words really describes your creation.

You are one talented human being.


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## TBone

I am speechless. Beautiful and very creative. I'm impressed you could think of that, much less accomplish it


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## rando81

Wow!!!


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## THarvey

That just stinks!!!:mad-tongue:

I expel all my creative energy trying to match a pen blank with a standard kit.  YOU, on the other hand, are creating beautiful objects of art like this. :befuddled:

Well Done.  That is one great looking pen. :highfive:


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## areaman

Amazing pen!! no need to say more than that.


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## dgscott

Gosh -- I suddenly feel so, so -- small, somehow!

Congratulations on a work of art.
Doug


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## ldb2000

You mean now I'm gonna have to use hand files too ? :tongue::biggrin: 
I cant wait for the FULL tutorial :wink::biggrin::tongue:

That pen is just plain............SPECTACULAR !!!


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## spiritwoodturner

Uhhhhh.....

That's all I'm capable of at the moment.

Dale


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## gmcnut

M-A-Zing, Um-A-Zing, Em-A-Zing, Amazing!

As per usual of course.


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## edman2

Not too shabby there Mr Rat! :biggrin: I am in awe of that kind of creativity that can see the pen before you can see the pen and then make what you saw before you could see it! Visionary to the highest degree!


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## JohnU

Holy S*#T!


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## btboone

Very cool design and execution.  Well done.


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## wdcav1952

Mark, let's break our skews and take up knitting!

Damn, Skippy, I don't have words for this one!


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## Manny

Where does he get all of those wonderful toys from???


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## devowoodworking

Amazing stuff right there!!


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## mrburls

Where do you dream up this stuff? We are lucky to have such talent here on this site. That is one of the coolest pens I've seen.  

YOU ARE GOOD !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Keith "mrburls"


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## mitchm

Steven, bloody hell.....that is AWESOME!!!!! Must be the boertjie blood coming through!


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## BigShed

G'day Steven, I think all the superlatives have been used so I'll just say WOW!!!

Fantastic pen, great design, and very innovative execution.

I was on the forum this afternoon and happened to spot this pen in the New Photos, before I even saw who posted it I knew it was a Skippy pen.
Said to myself, how in the blue blazes did that rodent do that!:thunder:

My best guess was that you hand made the metal parts and then cast them in acrylic, I was wrong on the second part. Hate to think how much time went in to that pen.

Have a feeling the only one who is going to make a pen to beat that one is you!:highfive:


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## Jim15

Were you born a genius or are you from some far distant mechanical planet? Absolutely amazing.


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## stolicky

Wow, good job.


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## jaywood1207

Excellent execution and an outstanding result.


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## cnirenberg

Wow.  That is one wicked, awesome looking pen.


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## skiprat

Many thanks for all the compliments:biggrin:

If anyone tries something like this then although the pics are pretty self explainitory, there is one process that really helps. The pic below shows the PR clamped to the metal. At this stage the resin was cut and sanded to a reasonably close fit, but while it's clamped it gets heated with a heat gun on low and the clamps gradually tightened a fraction at a time. Then left to cool completly. This ensures a nice clean joint:wink:

Thanks again:biggrin:


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## BRobbins629

Wonderful stuff Skip, but we've come to expect that from you.


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## Constant Laubscher

That is great workmanship, well done Skip!


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## jackrichington

I concur..it is outstanding & I'm retiring after seeing this..there is no reason to go on


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## LouisQC

Wow, a marvel. And the pictures showing your process... Incredible!

How much time did it take to create this piece of art?


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## joeatact

Wow!


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## RichB

You have a talent I don't seem to have.  That is one great and beautiful pen.  I think I went through your pictures faster than it took you to make.  Just a guess!!  Thanks for the look


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## skiprat

LouisQC said:


> .............
> How much time did it take ...............?


 
3 Days, but that includes half a day waiting for the blisters from filing to go down:biggrin:


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## cowjelly

That's the nicest pen I have seen! I have been burnt out for the past 3 or 4 months and looking for inspiration to get going again. Well I think I've found it. Thank you for posting it! In your debt, sorry, I have no money!

_____________
Keith...


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## bfgladden

That is absolutely amazing.  I really don't have words to describe how awesome this pen is


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## pianomanpj

Screw the Grand Canyon, I'm vacationing at Skippy's house! Fantastic job!! :highfive::beer:


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## Seer

I'm speechless WOW very nice, very very nice


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## davinci27

Great Job on and Amazing Pen!!  Thanks for that last photo.  I've been looking at the pen and the photos trying to figure out how you got the joints so tight without actually casting the metal.  I've got to get a good set of files and try some of the metal stuff.  

I've been suffering pen block the last couple of times I got in the shop, but you've given me some new ideas to play with.

Ben


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## Ligget

Excellent pen Steve, the little tutorial is excellent and pics are clear, I am sure there will be one or two trying to do this pen style soon!


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## Russianwolf

all I can say is


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## Don Farr

Ya'll did GOOD !!!!!


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## PenTurnerfromMaine

Very inspiring!


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## jkeithrussell

I think I'm going to delete my photo album.


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## punkinn

Man, that pen is DA BOMB!  (purloined from Randy Jackson - thanks Randy)  :bulgy-eyes:  (where's the DROOLING smiley - why don't we have a DROOLING smiley???) :tongue:

Seriously though -  looking through your photos makes me want to give our lathe to Goodwill.   :hypnotized:

Fabulous work.  A real artist!


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## workinforwood

My life might have just passed before me.  I'm so chuffed I'm chafing!!!


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## tim self

One word.  Brilliant, or is that Awesome.  Can't decide.


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## Texatdurango

Today we can buy an Alan Lacer skew or a set of Raffin gouges when we want to treat ourselves and splurge a little.
 
I can see it three years from now..... "No honey, I'd rather not have that Ellsworth signature bowl gouge or that new Alan Lacer skew, instead I wish Santa would bring me that set of "*Skippy Files*"! :biggrin:
 
Very creative pen


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## broitblat

Very, very cool -- and I really liked seeing all the intermediate steps, too.  You continue to do amazing stuff.  Thanks for sharing.

  -Barry


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## furini

That is just amazing!


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## wood-of-1kind

Now we know why you are in the PMG. Another masterpiece!!!!WOW


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## mostangrypirate

that is out standing. I will be surprised if it is not the next featured photo. bravo and kudos and npGj.


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## SuperDave

Skippy,

Don't know what you eat on your home planet, but... can I have some? :smile-big:


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## ngeb528

I think we should just give you any and all prizes in next years Birthday Bash (except for the ugliest pen prize, I don't think you can make an ugly pen).


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## Darley

Skip, every one did say the words, your skill will still amaze all members here and visitors, I though you did your own casting at first but was wrong when looking at the picture.

Any way just to say " BRAVO "


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## bracky1

"This is my latest concoction and I personally think it is the best pen I've ever made and I'm pretty chuffed with it.:redface::biggrin:"

You're chuffed!!
Well I'm bloody well not!!

I've just lashed out about £500 on a lathe, tools, chuck etc. I've turned my first couple of slimlines and thought I made a decent job
I found this site and thought good, some advice and inspiration.
I found your "copper teaser" and thought sh#t, I'll never match that.
AND NOW THIS!!!!!!!! 
:wink::biggrin:


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## Stick Rounder

Steven,
That is an amazing piece of work.  You are a master.


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## Dan_F

By golly, that's pretty danged impressive, not to mention original.

Dan


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## skiprat

bracky1 said:


> "This is my latest concoction and I personally think it is the best pen I've ever made and I'm pretty chuffed with it.:redface::biggrin:"
> 
> You're chuffed!!
> Well I'm bloody well not!!
> 
> I've just lashed out about £500 on a lathe, tools, chuck etc. I've turned my first couple of slimlines and thought I made a decent job
> I found this site and thought good, some advice and inspiration.
> I found your "copper teaser" and thought sh#t, I'll never match that.
> AND NOW THIS!!!!!!!!
> :wink::biggrin:


 
LOL Bracky first welcome to IAP. Not to worry, you Scotsmen are the most inventive nation on earth, and you'll soon be making Mont Blancs as 'practice runs':biggrin:  Hell, you guys invented TV, tarred roads, catseyes to mention a few. Hell, it was even a Scot that invented the toilet seat, although it was an Englishman that modified it and stuck a hole in the middle.:biggrin::tongue:

Thanks again for all the comments guys:wink:


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## Texatdurango

skiprat said:


> ....Hell, it was even a Scot that invented the toilet seat, although it was an Englishman that modified it and stuck a hole in the middle.:biggrin::tongue:


 Thanks Skip... best laugh I've had in a while! :biggrin:


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## jhs494

Outstanding design Steven! The pen is spectacular and not only did you show us the finished design you took the time to take pictures and share the process with us.
This shows why you truly one of the Masters in the Art of pen making.
Thanks for sharing all this with us!


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## airrat

Skip beautiful pen.  You keep inventing a new envelope to push with your designs.

What is that tool with the red handle clamped in the vise used for?


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## skiprat

airrat said:


> Skip beautiful pen. You keep inventing a new envelope to push with your designs.
> 
> What is that tool with the red handle clamped in the vise used for?


 
This one?:biggrin:

LOL, it's the cap. :wink:The clip is about to be bent around the smaller of the two drill bits. The red tape is just an attempt to make sure all the bending only happened in the clip. The pressure from the vice is only on the drill bits.


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## Paul in OKC

Wow.


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## bitshird

Mr. Rat That is some of the most unique work I have had the pleasure of seeing, I am absolutely amazed at you incredible ideas and methods of pen construction, that's one damn cool pen. Excellent work Steven,!!!!!!


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## LEAP

Well I'd tell you how awesome and incredible and impressive your latest creation is but any more adoration and you won't be able to fit your head in the skip to find more materials!! The question is how are you going to top this one? Now you've got your work cut out for you! Oh and by the way Nice Pen Good Job.


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## SuperDave

*Skippy get an Award from the Prince of Wales*

I just got off the phone with Prince Charles. After looking at your creation he said "*What Mr. Skiprat has achieved is rally immense. It hits you like bleach*."

Ooookaaaay... whatever. Too many trips to the "middle room" I say. Anyway, I was asked to bestow upon you, some award or such. So here's to Skiprat:

*We, the unworthy members of IAP, bestow upon thee, the award of Royal Scribe*.:worship::worship::worship:


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## VisExp

I'm late to the thread Steven, so not much to say that hasn't been said.  Another beautiful pen.  Simply stunning.


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## Tn-Steve

Admit it Steven, You took your lathe and some blanks down to the crossroads at midnight and turned a pen, trading your soul for unearthly powers of pen-turning.  (Hoping a cross-cultural reference will work here)

That one just knocks my socks off, nothing else to say.

Steve W.


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## masl

Do you ever make a boring pen ??
You should really start to sleep at night like the rest of us !!!


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## NewLondon88

Bah..  

I've done better




.. but then my alarm clock woke me up..


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## oldsmokey

Steven, your artistry and creativity humble us all.
I am going to take my original skiprat pen off of the wall and put it in a safe.  It is a very valuable collectors piece.
For all of you that don't know Steven very well, he is one of the nicest and generous members on this site.


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## johncrane

Skip! 
Your the Rat pen King well done mate!:thunder::wink::biggrin:


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## timberbits

oldsmokey said:


> Steven, your artistry and creativity humble us all.
> I am going to take my original skiprat pen off of the wall and put it in a safe. It is a very valuable collectors piece.
> For all of you that don't know Steven very well, he is one of the nicest and generous members on this site.


 
I think I would have to agree with oldsmonkey, I too am taking both my original skiprat pen off my wall and am going to put it into the bank vault. 

The wife then raised the issue about how would I be able to worship it everyday if it wasn't on the wall.

Timberbits.


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## kruzzer

That is with out a doubt the slickest pen I have ever seen..... standing ovation


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## marcruby

Wow!  I get busy for a few days and when I come back you've pulled another out of your hat.  Amazing!

Marc


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## Stevej72

Steve, Well done, another outstanding pen!


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## GouletPens

Ehhh....it's okay.:wink:


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## Texatdurango

GouletPens said:


> Ehhh....it's okay.:wink:


You know, that's exactly what I thought too.... Everyone is making a big deal over nothing, ANYONE could make one of those pens if they had one of those English metal files and a hefty vice! They're hard to find over here though or I'd make a pen like that too! :biggrin:


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## Tn-Steve

Texatdurango said:


> You know, that's exactly what I thought too.... Everyone is making a big deal over nothing, ANYONE could make one of those pens if they had one of those English metal files and a hefty vice! They're hard to find over here though or I'd make a pen like that too! :biggrin:


   Yea, that's it.... It those darn English Files.  I understand that they cut on the left side of the metal.  And you can only purchase them with a "Cheque".  

(Boy are we grasping at straws now)

Steve


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## NewLondon88

Tn-Steve said:


> Yea, that's it.... It those darn English Files.  I understand that they cut on the left side of the metal.  And you can only purchase them with a "Cheque".
> 
> (Boy are we grasping at straws now)
> 
> Steve



The problem is that he'll do a bang-up job .. and I'd do a ...
.. a bang up job.


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## Tn-Steve

While I was having dinner this evening it suddently sunk in.  Skiprat doesn't have a CNC lathe, a computer equipped milling machine, a 3d scanner / digitizer unit.  I suggest we all chip in and buy him these, maybe he will get so lost in the directions he will stop doing miracles in the tradition of the great English Gunsmiths, nothing more than wood, metal, files, patience and skill.

Of course, since the Welch developed the long-bow, that proved so instrumental in English history, there's no tellling what he'd do with all those toys.

Steve


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## NewLondon88

Well .. we could tie one of his hands behind his back till the rest of us catch up...


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## ngeb528

NewLondon88 said:


> Well .. we could tie one of his hands behind his back till the rest of us catch up...


 
By the time we catch up, he'll be around 100 more corners and we'll still be in the same position.

At least we have each other - who does he have, way up there on that pedestal we've put him on?


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## OKLAHOMAN

or this!





NewLondon88 said:


> Well .. we could tie one of his hands behind his back till the rest of us catch up...


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## rherrell

DAMN, Steven. Where can I buy some of those files?:wink:


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## skiprat

LOL:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

You guys are nuttier than me!!!!!:tongue:

You realise that this thread won't dissapear till you stop replying to it, don't you?:wink: So if you're fed up seeing it, then stop replying:biggrin:

..........but thanks:wink:


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## el_d

I call Skippy for the pen swap. Very nice Steven, I got my Agarita stuff ready ........:wink:


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## cinder_ladylocket

And why should we stop Praising you up?? When I think I panic at just the thought of putting a new kit together you have designed one for the elite of penturners. Give yourself a pat on the shoulder and while your doing that I will put the pen up on MY WALL to adore you.MASTER MASTER PLEASE MAY I ADORE YOU?? You have brought out members I have never even heard of before!


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## DurocShark

Man, I don't know WHY nobody's complimenting your work. I think it's pretty good!

;-)


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## gwilki

Damn fine, Steven!!!


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## greeneyedblackcat

Steven, Your pens are truly incredible, super artistic!
.


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## dntrost

skiprat said:


> Many thanks for all the compliments:biggrin:
> 
> If anyone tries something like this then although the pics are pretty self explainitory, there is one process that really helps. The pic below shows the PR clamped to the metal. At this stage the resin was cut and sanded to a reasonably close fit, but while it's clamped it gets heated with a heat gun on low and the clamps gradually tightened a fraction at a time. Then left to cool completly. This ensures a nice clean joint:wink:
> 
> Thanks again:biggrin:



Yeah right I am in my shop right now following the pictures and I was right at the point where the clamps were and was stuck  now it is all clear and I should be done with an exact replica by 2050!!!!!!


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## CSue

Thats one beautiful piece of art no one will EVER be able to duplicate!

What an outstanding craftsman you are Skip . . . you Rat.


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## jyreene

Showoff.  Nice pen.  Makes me wish I were still stationed in England so I could come steal some secrets and tips from you.


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## desertyellow

To quote a show from the late 70's 
THAT'S INCREDIBLE!
WOW!


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## Jim in Oakville

Absolulely stunning results,   Your process is well thought out as well, the skill and detail  and execution,,  while something we all can do is one thing, but your imagination is always priceless!!


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## Rangertrek

*Very Nice!*

Just when I thought I was making progress in this hobby, I see how far there is yet to go.

Exquisite pen.  Thanks for sharing with us.


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## babyblues

That's awesome!  Do you have room for an apprentice?  lol


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## Fish30114

I know this is an old thread--but I'd just like to say as one of my #1 hunting partners does 'DAMN IT BOY!'


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## Jim Smith

You are amazing!!!  You work is not only extremely well executed, but they are works of art.  You should consider selling them at Harrods in London.  I wouldn't be surprised if you could get a couple thousand pounds for that pen as a one of a kind.   Beautiful work!

Jim Smith


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## PenPal

HAIL NERO KING OF PENS> INCREDIBLE THE ALL TIME CHAMPION UNCHALLENGED>

PETER.


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## Cwalker935

I am not worthy enough to even comment.  Are you simply a visitor from a distant galaxy sent here to keep us earthlings humble?


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## skiprat

Steady on guys...thanks for the accolades, but it's just a pen.:biggrin::wink:

Ok, it's a nice pen, but still a pen.:biggrin:


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## stonepecker

THIS picture and pen have been here since 2009 and this is the first time I see it.

I am struck dumb as to say any kind of compilment to this work.  Skip, You AMAZE me with your skill and designs.   Even with the pictures, I can not begin to understand how you made this pen.  Steve, if you can put into words how you made this and all, I would be in your debt just trying to start understanding what you did.

Just one question for the membership........WHY is the pen NOT in the IAP Collection for everyone to see in person?


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## jttheclockman

stonepecker said:


> THIS picture and pen have been here since 2009 and this is the first time I see it.
> 
> I am struck dumb as to say any kind of compilment to this work.  Skip, You AMAZE me with your skill and designs.   Even with the pictures, I can not begin to understand how you made this pen.  Steve, if you can put into words how you made this and all, I would be in your debt just trying to start understanding what you did.
> 
> Just one question for the membership........WHY is the pen NOT in the IAP Collection for everyone to see in person?



Well I will again bring this up and it basically for the so called Newbies.

I encourage you to look around the forum and check out the photo sections and you will see many many great looking pens. I occassionally bring to life some pens that have not been seen for awhile here. I have tried on a couple occassions of getting a HALL OF FAME forum set up here but have met with great opposition which to this very day I do not see why. But that again is for someone else to promote. I am done with that. 

I have included Skips web site in another thread but it gets overlooked I see so I will be happy to post it again. 

Skiprat Pens - Home Page

Steven is one of the premier pen makers on this site and probably is the last one. His work stands alone. So if you like this pen check out some others he has made in the past.


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## Tom T

Yes sir, all has been said.  I agree with every one.  Amazing, unbelievable, incredible,
Great creation.  I am glad this post was brought up so we could see it.  Me for the first time.  Rock star status you are.


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## SteveG

British Dictionary definitions for *chuffed* Expand
chuffed
/tʃʌft/
adjective 
1.
(Brit, slang) pleased or delighted: none too chuffed

(Had to look that up prior to proceeding...)

Holy CHUFFED Cow, Mr. Skippy

A Rat's tail (and tale) indeed!!

At some point, you might just jump the shark. This is not it, but you could be gettin' close. I sure hope your brain does not explode with those ideas that percolate up out of that gray matter. The cool thing is that you seem to have the ability to execute on any creative leading that flows forth. Not only nice, but extraordinary.

Don't ever quit. Aloha!

Edit in: I decided to respond as I did, as this my first viewing of the masterpiece. New or old, it is "da bes", kinda talkin' Hawaiian slang.


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## Yorkie UK

That sure was an amazing way of making a pen .. And back in them days too .. :biggrin:


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## tomtedesco

This is a WOW pen!


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## triw51

I am speechless it is that good


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## BradG

Still a show off :tongue:


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## timcbs

Great Looking Pen, wish I could do that!


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## Espo

Very cool.


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## skiprat

Ok guys, please forgive me for bumping my own thread. :redface:

As many cool 'older' pens have been bumped recently to hopefully inspire people to make and enter pens in the upcoming Bash, I thought I'd bump this one. Not because it's my favourite ( which it is :biggrin: ) but because it can be made *without* any metal lathe or mill or CNC etc. 
Granted, I did use my metal lathe to drill the cores, but they could just as easily be done on a wood lathe. All the metal shaping was done with files. The resin was also  hand cut to fit the metal shapes. 

So brush up on your hand tool skills and have a go. :biggrin:

I double dog dare you !!:tongue::biggrin:


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## eldee

Flat out over the top!


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## zaqdesigns

This piece of art is extraordinary, astonishing and breathtaking! Absolutely gorgeous pen! :star::star::star:


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## Jgrden

:hypnotized:Talk about imagination!!!!!!  Shoot a Mile, that is one beautiful instrument. Combining wood and stainless, hmmmmm.


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## Jgrden

skiprat said:


> Ok guys, please forgive me for bumping my own thread. :redface:
> 
> As many cool 'older' pens have been bumped recently to hopefully inspire people to make and enter pens in the upcoming Bash, I thought I'd bump this one. Not because it's my favourite ( which it is :biggrin: ) but because it can be made *without* any metal lathe or mill or CNC etc.
> Granted, I did use my metal lathe to drill the cores, but they could just as easily be done on a wood lathe. All the metal shaping was done with files. The resin was also  hand cut to fit the metal shapes.
> 
> So brush up on your hand tool skills and have a go. :biggrin:
> 
> I double dog dare you !!:tongue::biggrin:



Okay, but how do you get the metal soooo smooth?? I can see cutting, filing, Dremel to a point but how to get the nice finish has me perplexed. You have inspired me to try a entry into the BASH. My equipment includes a wood lathe, hack saw, band saw, chop saw, drill press, plug-in Dremel, battery Dremel, steel wook, tiny files 9round and flat), Brasso and jewelry cloth. How close am I to doing what you did?


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## skiprat

John, you have everything. Take the deep scratches out of the metal before doing the shaping. It's a lot easier, trust me..:wink:
Use lots of wet n dry without skipping grades. I start at 400 and go to 1200.
When your fingers are raw, you should be nice and smooth. :biggrin:
Slow and steady wins the race. Forget the Dremel, use clean files. 

Looking forward to seeing what you come up with.:biggrin:

John, there's a lot more detail on this on my site. Look in the ctips and tricks pages.:wink:


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## Rockytime

I don't make metal pens but I do make a fair number of little things in my small machine shop. One of the things I use for finishing is 3-M mesh pads. They come in various coarseness.


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## Jgrden

skiprat said:


> John, you have everything. Take the deep scratches out of the metal before doing the shaping. It's a lot easier, trust me..:wink:
> Use lots of wet n dry without skipping grades. I start at 400 and go to 1200.
> When your fingers are raw, you should be nice and smooth. :biggrin:
> Slow and steady wins the race. Forget the Dremel, use clean files.
> 
> Looking forward to seeing what you come up with.:biggrin:
> 
> John, there's a lot more detail on this on my site. Look in the ctips and tricks pages.:wink:



Okay, I checked it out. Got an idea. Now I need brass. To find brass rods or bolts is my next adventure. 

Thank you.


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## Jgrden

Rockytime said:


> I don't make metal pens but I do make a fair number of little things in my small machine shop. One of the things I use for finishing is 3-M mesh pads. They come in various coarseness.



3m mesh pads. Okay, I am on my way. 
Thank you, 
John


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