# A question about Kitless



## greenchicken (Apr 12, 2012)

Before finding this sight the idea of kitless pen making never occurred to me.  Now I am very interested.  I have never found a kit that is 100% satisfactory.

BUT the big question is material. Can it be done with all wood pens?  I am not a fan of Acrylics.  

Any advise would be appreciated.


ps:  If any of you kitless experts live within a 100 miles of Ventura County California I would love to get together one afternoon.


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## IPD_Mr (Apr 12, 2012)

It can be done out of wood.  You will need to make threaded inserts or learn the difficult art of threading wood.  When I started in this years ago I did not like anything other than wood.  Now I will rarely touch wood.  Anway there is a recent post by watch-art with his first wood kitless.  Another one to look for is by mredburn and it was about 9 months ago and it is a wood elegant beauty.


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## Russianwolf (Apr 12, 2012)

Wood poses problems because without reinforcement, it tends to crush too easily because of the way the grain fibers are aligned. Thus the brass tubes in the kits.

Can it be done? Yes.

You either need to leave the sides pretty thick (alot more than the 1mm that the kits allow), or find woods that have properties that help. Lignum would be one wood I'd look for example.


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## BSea (Apr 12, 2012)

I think using brass tubes to add support doesn't make it a kit pen if all the other components are not from a kit.  A wood kitless is actually more of a challenge regardless if you use tubes or not.  Just my 2¢


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## mredburn (Apr 12, 2012)

*If a picture is worth a thousand words*


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## greenchicken (Apr 12, 2012)

Those are very impressive.  So you are able to cut thread in wood or are you using a threaded insert?


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## mredburn (Apr 12, 2012)

For the roller ball nose cone I use a brass threaded insert. for the cap threads I thread the wood.







The brass insert in the back ground, m8x1. The ebony on the front of the walnut is threaded inside and out. Inside is m8x.1 and the outside is m12 x.75, you might beable to see the threads on the inside of the ebony in the second picture. they are then glued on to the pen. I cut a short tenon to the tube about .025 deep.


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## BRobbins629 (Apr 12, 2012)

And a few more with no tubes.


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## IPD_Mr (Apr 12, 2012)

So now we have seen fine threads by Mike and I think hand cut coarse threads by Bruce.  So now you know that it is not only possible in theory but by the photos it has been accomplished.  Now you need to realize that Mike and Bruce are two of the more talented people on here and know their craft better than most.  These are the things that many strive for, no because you don't have to buy a kit but because you want to test the limit of their talents and take things to the next level that you cannot achieve making kit pens.


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## chriselle (Apr 12, 2012)

Yep, a couple very talented dudes.  Nice.


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## PenMan1 (Apr 12, 2012)

It can, IN FACT, be all wood!  Pay particular attention to BRobbins and MRedburn!

A mechanic worries about "thread pitch". An artist worries about how to backlight the angel's wings!

Don't be afraid to jump out of the box, sans parachute. Let the bean counters worry about the "mechanics".


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## greenchicken (Apr 12, 2012)

I stand in awe!


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## Old Lar (Apr 13, 2012)

WOW!!


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## greenchicken (Apr 14, 2012)

Can anyone give advise of buying tap and die tools?  Such as what ar ethe more common sizes, best brands, etc.


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## yort81 (Apr 25, 2012)

greenchicken said:


> Can anyone give advise of buying tap and die tools?  Such as what ar ethe more common sizes, best brands, etc.




*I would be interested as well.... the more I read about kit-less... the more i am intrigued!*


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## Twissy (Apr 26, 2012)

yort81 said:


> greenchicken said:
> 
> 
> > Can anyone give advise of buying tap and die tools?  Such as what ar ethe more common sizes, best brands, etc.
> ...



This is an excellent chart by jjudge....a good starting point. Here


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## BSea (Apr 26, 2012)

Twissy said:


> yort81 said:
> 
> 
> > greenchicken said:
> ...



That is an excellent chart, but the issue is that most people starting into kitless need a step by step guide to what to buy.

One of the best places to look is in the Library.

This article covers most of what someone will need to start.  The 1st few paragraphs cover the starting points.

http://content.penturners.org/library/pens/fountainpensection.pdf

The only thing it doesn't talk about are the different nib assemblies that are available.  But that chart mentioned earlier does a good job of that.

So here's a short summary.

Decide on the size of pen.   That will dictate the cap thread size.  Usually 12mm or 14mm.  The choice from there is to get an inexpensive set, or spring for the triple start tap & die set that go for over $100.

Next, decide what nib assembly you will use.  The most common sizes are 5mm & 6mm. The chart above chart will tell you what nib needs what tap, and where to buy it.  The taps are different between manufactures, and they aren't cheap.  So it's best to pick 1 & stick with it.

For generic taps & dies, I use Victor Machinery.  They have a $25 minimum, but that's easy to do.

Hope this helps.


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