# Carbide cutters



## Carl Fisher (Oct 14, 2013)

I've made several hundred pens now using the same tools and technique. I rough with a gouge and then do the final 1-2mm with a carbide tool.  So needless to say I don't chew through my carbide bits that fast and typically can get a few extra rotations out of them by lapping them face down on an oiled stone to freshen up.

The ones I have would no longer hold an edge any more, and rather than spend $15 on a single replacement cutter plus shipping, I decided to order a pack of 10 for $26 from Global Tooling. They appeared to be exactly the same 14mm x 14mm with BT marked in one corner.  R4 curve.  I can't see a physical difference between these and the ones I had been using previously. However as I've been using them, I've now blown up more good acrylic blanks than ever before.

The tool seems to be almost too agressive.  I am having to ride the bevel very high and barely bring down to cut where before I could almost go straight in at the centerline.  If I try that with these cutters, it grabs the tool and rakes it down shattering the blank.  And definitely forget about riding below the center line.  That's instant failure.

I'm by no means wet behind the ears with these tools, but I just can't figure out why these cutters are acting so much different than the cutters supplied with the tool


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## Crashmph (Oct 14, 2013)

I would be very interested in the out come of your findings.


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## The Penguin (Oct 14, 2013)

compare the bevel angles and post up what you find. 

I bet that's where the difference is.


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## walshjp17 (Oct 14, 2013)

As would I.  I have tried lapping carbide cutter inserts and I really don't notice much difference ... but that could just be my technique for lapping.

I would be interested in your findings as I have just purchased several replacement cutters from Eddie Castelin and am wondering how they will fare when it is time to replace the current batch.


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## ChrisN (Oct 14, 2013)

I also am interested in what you find. I don't have any carbide tools yet, but I'm planning to order some from Captain Eddie tonight. I also am going to send out an RFQ to several CNC tool manufacturers to see if they have any inserts that I could use. The info I need yet is the bevel angle and screw hole dimensions.


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## Carl Fisher (Oct 14, 2013)

I'll see if I can get a good reading on the angle and maybe some macro photos tonight.  Can't promise but I'll try 

Chrissy is getting a bit upset at me for blowing up her nearly finished stuff.  She's been rough turning the last few batches with the gouge and setting them on a rack for me to come behind and finish turn between centers to final size and all of the finish work.  If I blow up one more of her blanks she's going to kick me out of my own shop :frown:


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## triw51 (Oct 14, 2013)

I would be interested in your findings also Carl.  Please keep us posted


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## Fatdawg (Oct 14, 2013)

Does the cutting edge have a radius like the EWT does? On most square metal working inserts the radius referred to is the corner radius of the inserts, unless it is a special profile cutting insert. Could also be the rake.


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## Carl Fisher (Oct 14, 2013)

Oh, need to correct my original post but it's too late to edit.  They are 15mm x 15mm (not 14x14 as previously stated)

Here is the description from Global

For "Byrd" Shelix ® Journal (Helical) Heads -- 15mm x 15mm x 2.5mm - 4-edge - Radius Faces 100mm face radius - 15mm x 15mm x 2.5mm. Fits "Byrd" Shelix ® Heads - Byrd Ref. P/N 1791212 (Priced per knife, sold in boxes of 10.) Knives marked with 'BT'


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## MarkD (Oct 14, 2013)

Carl, I purchased the same carbide cutters from Global Tooling and I have had noticed results similar to yours. The other day I was turning some Alumilite for Stylus for an upcoming show and I had several of the blanks blow up on me. At first I attributed it to the fact that I have not used the carbide tool much recently, but after several blanks blew up I'm not so sure. I have used the R4 and the R2 cutters previously, and I do like the R2 better in most cases, but I never had the problems with the R4 that I have had since I purchased the cutters you mentioned.


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## Carl Fisher (Oct 14, 2013)

Mark, that's actually encouraging to hear that it's not just me.  I'll do some close up comparisons between these and my other cutters.  I may just have to go back to the $15 cutters and chalk it up to a failed experiment.

I've tried various tool post positions including closer, further, higher, lower, etc... and none seem to prevent the issue.  The closest I've been able to get is to go higher than center, ride the bevel and then lift just to the point of cutting.  And even at that, don't apply any forward pressure.  Once it bites there's not really anything you can do to stop it.  It rakes the cutter down and pinches the tool between the blank and the rest and the only stress relief is to explode the blank.


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## healeydays (Oct 14, 2013)

I've been using the Byrd heads ever since I found a deal on Amazon for them and have noticed a few blowups but thought it was me.  Overall I have been happy with them and at the price of $35 for 10, I thought it was well worth trying them.
Amazon.com: Byrd Tool H7354 Tool Shelix Indexable Carbide Inserts, 10-Pack: Home Improvement


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## brownsfn2 (Oct 14, 2013)

Carl,

I did the same thing you did and ordered from the same place at first.  I don't care for the 100mm radius inserts because they are not rounded enough and I always seems to get a catch unless I was really careful.  I did find a place to order 50mm radius inserts and I have been really happy with them.  I seem to do like 10 pens a side and then change sides.  I think it can handle more but this way I always have a nice cutting tool.  I think it comes out to like .15 cents a pen for the insert cost.  Here is the link in case you want to give them a try:

4 Sided 1 Hole Insert Knife, 50mm Radius, 15mm x 15mm x 2.5mm , Southeast Tool SI-151525-R50


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## walshjp17 (Oct 14, 2013)

Carl Fisher said:


> I may just have to go back to the $15 cutters and chalk it up to a failed experiment.



Check with Eddie Castelin to see if he sources his from Global.  IIRC, he says he gets his from Germany. Here's a link to his cutter's page:
==>Big Guy Productions - *


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## Leatherman1998 (Oct 15, 2013)

You are using cutter heads that are made for a planer. That carbide is usually a different grade and geometry than a cutter made specifically for turning. I have used and tested Capt. Eddie's tools and have been very happy. I haven't used EWT's carbide though.


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## Nikitas (Oct 15, 2013)

The bevel is 30 deg. That is what I use on my carbide tools... You must have the cutting edge on or just a touch above center line.


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## PenMan1 (Oct 16, 2013)

Same results as you, Carl. 

R4 is barely useable for cutting straight barrels, let alone trying to put ANY KIND of flair to it.

I've used a pile of carbide cutters and always go back to the Woodchuck R2 radius cutter. For $8-10 dollars, it'll cut a hundred pens. ANY WAY YOU WANT TO DO THEM.

I DON'T sharpen  tools, but with a $5 diamond credit card, you can get ANOTHER 50 pens out of a Woodchuck cutter after about 3 minutes of "mindless sharpening".

I hope this helps!


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## LagniappeRob (Oct 16, 2013)

I'm looking for the smaller (3/8"? or so) that R2 for the EWT Easy Pen Turner ( Easy Wood Tools Easy Pen Turner | Pen Making | Craft Supplies USA )

Anyone know where I can find those?


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## BayouPenturner (Oct 16, 2013)

go to Captn Eddie he may have the cutters.


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## LagniappeRob (Oct 16, 2013)

BayouPenturner said:


> go to Captn Eddie he may have the cutters.



Nope, doesn't carry the smaller ones. Eddie's a neighbor - I drive by the house nearly everyday. He was the 1st one I hit up.   Oh, that reminds me, I need to drop off some Freedom Pens to him for Sarge. I meant to do that before last weekend's BWT's meeting.


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## Leatherman1998 (Oct 16, 2013)

Capt. Eddie does have 3/8 style cutters I have sets of them. I will get links in the morning.

Levi Woodard 
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Forum Runner


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## LagniappeRob (Oct 16, 2013)

Leatherman1998 said:


> Capt. Eddie does have 3/8 style cutters I have sets of them. I will get links in the morning.
> 
> Levi Woodard
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Forum Runner



I'll have to ask again then.    Maybe I bugged him enough. Tried not to...  but that's GREAT news. I need to run over there anyway. I'll give him a call in the morning.   THANKS, you made my day - considering that I had a root canal (on a good tooth) to prep for a bridge because the last root canal & crown with post cracked straight up into the jaw, that is saying a good bit.   (I'm also on Vicodin - that probably doesn't hurt either.)


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## Carl Fisher (Oct 16, 2013)

Hey Andy, have you been able to get to Woodchuck's site lately?  Ever time I've tried to get there for the past few months, it gives a malicious software warning and stops me from getting to the site.

Who else sells "official" woodchuck inserts? <<< Edit nevermind.  Found them at Beartooth.


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## Leatherman1998 (Oct 16, 2013)

LagniappeRob said:


> I'll have to ask again then.    Maybe I bugged him enough. Tried not to...  but that's GREAT news. I need to run over there anyway. I'll give him a call in the morning.   THANKS, you made my day - considering that I had a root canal (on a good tooth) to prep for a bridge because the last root canal & crown with post cracked straight up into the jaw, that is saying a good bit.   (I'm also on Vicodin - that probably doesn't hurt either.)



The 8.8 and 10.7mm cutters are what you want for a 3/8 tool.

Levi Woodard 
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Forum Runner


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## Carl Fisher (Oct 17, 2013)

So I didn't take pictures, but the cutters are visually 100% identical.  Appears to be the same rake and profile all around.  

Has to be something with the cutting edge itself that can't be seen (burrs, carbide quality, ?????).  I put my old cutter back on and it's night and day different in how you can approach the work piece.


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## ChrisN (Oct 17, 2013)

Carl Fisher said:


> So I didn't take pictures, but the cutters are visually 100% identical.  Appears to be the same rake and profile all around.
> 
> Has to be something with the cutting edge itself that can't be seen (burrs, carbide quality, ?????).  I put my old cutter back on and it's night and day different in how you can approach the work piece.



Are they metal cutters? Metal cutters have a slight radius on the edges to leave a nicer finished surface. Wood cutters have a sharp edge.


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## Nikitas (Oct 18, 2013)

I have the 15mm cutter 100mm radius and it works great for me....


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## Wildman (Oct 18, 2013)

Does anyone have experience with these people?

Product Detail

They offer several different types of carbide cutters


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## Quality Pen (Jun 7, 2014)

Hey Carl, did you ever figure this out?

I've been thinking recently about these cutters you were having issues with.


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## Dan Masshardt (Jun 7, 2014)

For me, I'm going back to the easy wood tools cutters.   The capt Eddie ones work okay , but I can sense a real difference between them.


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## plano_harry (Jun 7, 2014)

I see this is an old thread but thought I would share my experience with the Global BT cutters. First, for all but final finish cuts, I use the R4s on an angle for a shearing cut which should not result in a catch. Yes R4 is not as forgiving as an R2 or round cutter, but I find them very nice for cutting a straight side. 

The main difference I noticed is these are crazy sharp compared with the original cutters that came with the tool. The top surface is so finely honed, it is like a mirror and reflects the light back in my eyes when I use it flat, so I use a marker to blacken the surface. These industrial quality cutters also hold the edge longer than the originals. So, fewer edge rotations on a $2.61 cutter.  

YMMV


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## Carl Fisher (Jun 7, 2014)

Quality Pen said:


> Hey Carl, did you ever figure this out?
> 
> I've been thinking recently about these cutters you were having issues with.




Honestly no.  Every time I try to put them on, I end up taking them back off within a few minutes of cutting.


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## endacoz (Jun 27, 2014)

Dan,

I ordered the super wood turners package from Captain Eddie this morning.  I have seen adds for Easy Wood tools.

What type of difference?   I have NEVER used a carbide tool before.  I have watched a bunch of videos, any certain ones you recommend for starting out using these carbides?   


I'd love to hear other people's opinions and reviews of carbide tools now that you have used them for awhile, especially Captian eddies.


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## kovalcik (Jun 27, 2014)

I have a couple of Capt Eddies tools and I made a couple others using his cutters. I use them mostly for hollowing and cutting soft metals. Never for pens. My pens are mostly wood and some acrylic and I find a skew gives a much better finish. If I was using tru-stone or antler, maybe that would change. For hollowing, they work pretty well. The square and R2 cutters give me a nice square joint between the wall and bottom of turned boxes. The round cutters are good for removing lots of material. I have never used EZ Wood tools, but after using Eddie's and making a couple myself, I just can't see paying the extra cost when the homemade ones do what I need for a lot less.


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## keithbyrd (Jun 27, 2014)

I have been getting mine from global for the past 2 years  - same bit  as described and I love them.  I think I have had 4 blow ups and can attribute it to the blank being either very punky, black palm or being to aggressive with a diagonal cut blank.  I am getting 10-15 pens per side and use them on everything - M3, all wood, acrylic, tru-stone.


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## EN Pens (Jun 27, 2014)

There is a big difference between the R2 and R4 radius cutters.  I use Easy Wood Tools exclusively and find that the R2 cutter is the best for pen turning.  The R4 tool takes too large a bite and tends to catch when you least expect it.


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## shastastan (Jun 27, 2014)

I have a set of 5 Harrison Specialty carbide Tools.  They came with an interchangeable handle, but I made a handle for each tool.  I have 1 additional tool for pen turning.  It is a radius cutter.  I also have the easy wood rougher (for pens), and a round and detail easy wood starter tools.  These meet all of my pen turning needs 99% of the time.  Sometimes I may use a small rougher gouge to bring to round.  I'm not handy working with metal nor do I have the tools for it.  If you are, you can make your own tools to your own specifications for a lot less than buying ready made tools.  Carbide tools are working very well for me and I wish I had discovered them a lot sooner.  If you have the patience to master a skew chisel, you will probably get a smoother surface prior to sanding.  I was never very good with a skew and it liked to surprise me with catches. YMMV


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## t001xa22 (Jun 27, 2014)

I do my cutting with the exact same cutters and technique as Harry does, even to marking the used sides as I rotate the blade. I lightly rounded my tool edges in the beginning to better accommodate the "skew" shearing that I use. I have used Global Tooling inserts for several years with no real problems. Obviously, everyone has their favorite tools, parts, and techniques, but like Harry, this system works very well for me.


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