# Problem with Statesman and Gent kits



## greenmtnguy (Aug 20, 2009)

I recently blew up two nice cap blanks- Amboyna burl and Big Leaf Maple burl. Both problems were with extremely tight fitting clips to finial. I went and visited Charlie to see how his Gent clips fit. They fit snugly, but go on. Mine doesn't go on at all. I just put the digital caliper on both Gents. The clip hole on one is 0.547 and the finial that goes in the hole is 0.555. Big into small doesn't seem to work. The second clip hole is 0.546 and the finial to goes into the hole is 0.556. Just how much does metal expand without a problem.? I have ground the Statesman finial so I suspect returning it is out of the question.The Gents  are going back.  Here is some of the result after I cracked the cap during assembly. I do not want to work on 19.99 pen kits to make them work. The Statesman were worse. Back they go.


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## bitshird (Aug 20, 2009)

Alton, I noticed on the last Jr Statesman I did the finial was a real tight fit, through the clip, same on the last Jr Retros I did, but the retros came from one dealer and the statesman of course were from CSUSA, My guess is the Die for the clip is worn making the hole too small, or they are using a new die and it's screwed up.


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## Russianwolf (Aug 21, 2009)

exactly when is the tube cracking? once the finial starts to go in, or is it just crushing the top as you try?

Check the fit of the finial into the tube (no clip). if they are right, then the best solution is to ream out the hole in the clip.


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## Rifleman1776 (Aug 21, 2009)

The Gents, Jr. Gents, and, presumably Statesman series (I have never made one), are tight fits trying to put the clip on the finial. I ream the inside of the clip with sandpaper. Takes a minute then it slides on. I suspect the specs. are too small and after plating the dimensions go below what is required for the finial to fit.
But, busting a blank like that is a puzzler. If the fit was so tight as to do that, I believe one would feel it resisting and not use excessive force. Personally, I would back off and try to find the cause of the resistance.
Yes, I agree, CS should be made aware of this. These are premium kits often used with premium blanks and extra care. A disaster like this is costly in both time and money.


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## TX_Planes (Aug 21, 2009)

Hummm. I recently found the same issue with jr. Gent from csuas. I set the clip aside to deal with later.  Clearly I need to inspect the others from this last shipment.  

Thanks for posting.


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## dntrost (Aug 21, 2009)

I have this problem all of the time with the Jr. Gent just assumed it was too much plating so I take dremel and ream out hole on clip and all is fine...


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## toolcrazy (Aug 21, 2009)

greenmtnguy said:


> I recently blew up two nice cap blanks- Amboyna burl and Big Leaf Maple burl. Both problems were with extremely tight fitting clips to finial. I went and visited Charlie to see how his Gent clips fit. They fit snugly, but go on. Mine doesn't go on at all. I just put the digital caliper on both Gents. The clip hole on one is 0.547 and the finial that goes in the hole is 0.555. Big into small doesn't seem to work. The second clip hole is 0.546 and the finial to goes into the hole is 0.556. Just how much does metal expand without a problem.? I have ground the Statesman finial so I suspect returning it is out of the question.The Gents  are going back.  Here is some of the result after I cracked the cap during assembly. I do not want to work on 19.99 pen kits to make them work. The Statesman were worse. Back they go.



Just let CUSA know about this. You probably won't even have to send them back, they will send new one out ASAP whether you bought them from them or not. DAMHIKT.


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## ed4copies (Aug 21, 2009)

dntrost said:


> I have this problem all of the time with the Jr. Gent just assumed it was too much plating so I take dremel and ream out hole on clip and all is fine...



Ditto


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## wolftat (Aug 21, 2009)

I just checked my kits and 5 out of 15 seem to have the thicker plating. The funny thing is that 2 are gold ti. and the rest are rhodium, so this must be the way they are plating them now.


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## NewLondon88 (Aug 21, 2009)

but why should anyone have to 'modify' a $30 kit?  That doesn't seem right..


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## johnnycnc (Aug 21, 2009)

Alton, the finial sizes you list of .555 and .556 , if this is the press fit portion that goes in tube, are WAY too large. They should be .550-.552 at most in my opinion.
Sounds like the fittings are oversize and/or overthickly plated.


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## Texatdurango (Aug 21, 2009)

NewLondon88 said:


> but why should anyone have to 'modify' a $30 kit? That doesn't seem right..


This is NOT a new problem.  I have been dealing with this for over two years now with both the Jr Gent as well as Jr Statesman kits.  I don't see it so much of a modification as I do a "fine tuning", Heck, I spend more time squaring the blanks than I do filing the clips when necessary!

I always check the fit between the finial and the clip before assemblying anything.  If it's tight, I grab my Foredom drill and chuck up a small grinding stone and hit the inside of the clip a few seconds and that usually takes care of the problem.

Why do I put up with it?  Because (in my opinion) there is no other kit that is comparable to the Jr Gent or the Jr Statesman.

I guess it's just no big deal to me.


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## ed4copies (Aug 21, 2009)

NewLondon88 said:


> but why should anyone have to 'modify' a $30 kit?  That doesn't seem right..


   Sorry Charlie!

I have long contended it's a $3 kit that SELLS for $30.

I do not mean this to pick on CSUSA, I believe this of ALL kits.  Add the parts together and there is no INDIVIDUAL PART worth more than a dime.

JUST MY OPINION!!!


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## NewLondon88 (Aug 21, 2009)

I won't disagree with the kit's value .. but when you pay $30, it's a $30 kit.

It really bugs me when a $9.99 kit in gold turns into a $19.99 kit because it has
a rhodium plating on it. As fas as plating costs.. that's where the dime comes in.

I'd love to do the plating for these kits.  If I just got paid the difference they charge
for platings, I could retire.


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## gvpens (Aug 21, 2009)

I also have had the same problem of the finial not fitting in the clip on this pen. At first I tried to file the inside of the clip and that seemed to work. Someone a while ago on this forum came up with a better and easier idea that I now use and it works great.

Take an extra tube of the same size and cut 2 slots in one end. I used my dremel cutting wheel for this. Now press the finial and clip into the slotted end of this tube (instead of your finished blank). Now you have the finial and clip together. Use your transfer punch to disassemble the finial/clip from the tube. It's easy since the slots provide a loose fit. Now just press them into your finished blank and you are all set. 

I haven't had any problems at all since I have been doing it this way.

This method should work for any pen where the finial and clip don't slide together easily.


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## GPDMTR25 (Aug 21, 2009)

*I had and currently have the same problem*

I’ve had this happen to me so I called and asked for new clips. They sent them right out.  Now, I have three Statesman sitting on my desk completed except for the clips. I have to call and ask for new ones again. I’ll keep asking for new clips until they get the idea of fixing the problem. This time I will also tell them about the comments on this thread.  I still like the kits, for me it’s better than many of them out there.
Angela


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## Buzzzz4 (Aug 21, 2009)

Just finished a Jr. Statesman rollerball today. Same problem with all of the pieces. For the tubes, I carve out a bit with a drill bit and file the plating from the inside of the clip. Pressed fine after that.

www.recturnings.etsy.com


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## Texatdurango (Aug 21, 2009)

Just another comment, after reading where everyone is having this problem all of a sudden I got to thinking there might be a serious problem now so I went out to the shop and checked on the 20 Jr statesman kits I ordered last month.  I found 1 clip that wouldn't fit over the finial out of 20 so it seems that it is still hit or miss!


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## ldb2000 (Aug 22, 2009)

I have had this problem with about 60% of the statesman kits I have used and while it takes only a few seconds to ream the hole in the clip , I totally agree with Charlie . These are not cheap slimline kits we are complaining about and whatever their true worth might be we are paying for a "Premium" quality kit . You should NOT have to adjust the fit !


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## NewLondon88 (Aug 22, 2009)

FWIW, I've never had this problem myself, and it doesn't seem to be a problem
with any of the Jr's I've seen so far.

I only stuck my nose in because I'm the one who talked Alton into trying a few full 
sized Gents and Statesmans for some upcoming shows. He brought his kits to my
shop to compare to the ones I have.

Mine assemble just fine, but I bought mine a while ago.

a 10/1000ths difference in size is obviously a mistake somewhere, and my concern
is that once you modify the kit by grinding away the plating to make them fit, the
plating will flake away from the rest of the part somewhere down the road.

..not something you want to happen on an expensive pen you've sold to a
customer at a show..


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## TX_Planes (Aug 22, 2009)

I buy this kits as high quality finished kits. I don't consider reaming out 
a mismatched part a "mod". I consider this a repair that might lead to a plating problem down the road.  Not acceptable in a kit in this class.   

I am really happy to have csusa as a supplier.  They have always had great CS and I expect this to be no different.  

I'll be asking for replacement clips.


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## ericatcraft (Aug 28, 2009)

We appreciate the members of this forum who have brought this problem to our attention.  We have found that some of our pen kits (primarily Rhodium plated Gentlemen and Statesman kits)  were manufactured with the stem  (the part of the cap that slides into the tube and holds the clip) outside of acceptable tolerance. The clips are fine and not the problem.  We have taken all kits in question out of our inventory and we are currently checking every kit by hand before shipping them to customers (please have patience if you find a kit out of stock in the next day or two).  

While we rely on our suppliers to provide us with quality parts we understand that machining errors are bound to happen on occasion.  With this in mind, as of August 24, 2009, Craft Supplies USA now has a full-time quality assurance staff member to inspect and verify the quality and functionality of our pen kits and other precision products.  We hope such measures will reduce the number of such incidents in the future.In this specific instance, we have provided our pen manufacturer with the maximum acceptable diameter on these pen caps to prevent a re-occurence of this problem.  

Craft Supplies USA stands behind all products we sell and will continue to do so in the future.  If any of you have any problem with any pen kit, please contact our customer service department at 1-800-551-8876.


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## Wheaties (Aug 28, 2009)

ericatcraft said:


> We appreciate the members of this forum who have brought this problem to our attention.  We have found that some of our pen kits (primarily Rhodium plated Gentlemen and Statesman kits)  were manufactured with the stem  (the part of the cap that slides into the tube and holds the clip) outside of *acceptable tolerance*. The clips are fine and not the problem.



Are you allowed to provide us with what IS the acceptable tolerance?


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## ericatcraft (Aug 28, 2009)

I would love to tell you, so you can check you personal inventory. Unfortunately I don't know what that tolerance is yet and I spoke with our quality assurance staff member and he told me that we are working with the manufacturer to determine the exact measurement. We have contacted them (all contact with them is via email) and they likely won't get back to us until tomorrow or perhaps Monday. I will post the acceptable tolerance on Monday. Sorry I can't get tell you today, I just want to make sure I give you the correct answer the first time!


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## Wheaties (Aug 28, 2009)

ericatcraft said:


> I would love to tell you, so you can check you personal inventory. Unfortunately I don't know what that tolerance is yet and I spoke with our quality assurance staff member and he told me that we are working with the manufacturer to determine the exact measurement. We have contacted them (all contact with them is via email) and they likely won't get back to us until tomorrow or perhaps Monday. I will post the acceptable tolerance on Monday. Sorry I can't get tell you today, I just want to make sure I give you the correct answer the first time!



Sounds good! Thank you!


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## titan2 (Aug 28, 2009)

ericatcraft said:


> We appreciate the members of this forum who have brought this problem to our attention. We have found that some of our pen kits (primarily Rhodium plated Gentlemen and Statesman kits) were manufactured with the stem (the part of the cap that slides into the tube and holds the clip) outside of acceptable tolerance. The clips are fine and not the problem. We have taken all kits in question out of our inventory and we are currently checking every kit by hand before shipping them to customers (please have patience if you find a kit out of stock in the next day or two).
> 
> While we rely on our suppliers to provide us with quality parts we understand that machining errors are bound to happen on occasion. With this in mind, as of August 24, 2009, Craft Supplies USA now has a full-time quality assurance staff member to inspect and verify the quality and functionality of our pen kits and other precision products. We hope such measures will reduce the number of such incidents in the future.In this specific instance, we have provided our pen manufacturer with the maximum acceptable diameter on these pen caps to prevent a re-occurence of this problem.
> 
> Craft Supplies USA stands behind all products we sell and will continue to do so in the future. If any of you have any problem with any pen kit, please contact our customer service department at 1-800-551-8876.


 

_Now is this customer service or what!!!  How many large companies would come here and inform us of the problem and what they are doing about it so that it doesn't happen again?  _
 
_That's one standup company......they'll be getting more of my business in the future!_
 
 
_Barney_


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## GPDMTR25 (Aug 28, 2009)

ericatcraft said:


> We appreciate the members of this forum who have brought this problem to our attention. We have found that some of our pen kits (primarily Rhodium plated Gentlemen and Statesman kits) were manufactured with the stem (the part of the cap that slides into the tube and holds the clip) outside of acceptable tolerance. The clips are fine and not the problem. We have taken all kits in question out of our inventory and we are currently checking every kit by hand before shipping them to customers (please have patience if you find a kit out of stock in the next day or two).
> 
> While we rely on our suppliers to provide us with quality parts we understand that machining errors are bound to happen on occasion. With this in mind, as of August 24, 2009, Craft Supplies USA now has a full-time quality assurance staff member to inspect and verify the quality and functionality of our pen kits and other precision products. We hope such measures will reduce the number of such incidents in the future.In this specific instance, we have provided our pen manufacturer with the maximum acceptable diameter on these pen caps to prevent a re-occurence of this problem.
> 
> Craft Supplies USA stands behind all products we sell and will continue to do so in the future. If any of you have any problem with any pen kit, please contact our customer service department at 1-800-551-8876.


 
I guess someone there received my letter with all the comments from this thread. Included in the letter was my request for replacement for 6 clips so I hope those are coming as well 

I've had the best customer service from them and figured if I wrote a letter they would correct the problem.
Angela


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## pianomanpj (Aug 28, 2009)

ericatcraft said:


> We appreciate the members of this forum who have brought this problem to our attention. We have found that some of our pen kits (primarily Rhodium plated Gentlemen and Statesman kits) were manufactured with the stem (the part of the cap that slides into the tube and holds the clip) outside of acceptable tolerance. The clips are fine and not the problem. We have taken all kits in question out of our inventory and we are currently checking every kit by hand before shipping them to customers (please have patience if you find a kit out of stock in the next day or two).
> 
> While we rely on our suppliers to provide us with quality parts we understand that machining errors are bound to happen on occasion. With this in mind, as of August 24, 2009, Craft Supplies USA now has a full-time quality assurance staff member to inspect and verify the quality and functionality of our pen kits and other precision products. We hope such measures will reduce the number of such incidents in the future.In this specific instance, we have provided our pen manufacturer with the maximum acceptable diameter on these pen caps to prevent a re-occurence of this problem.
> 
> Craft Supplies USA stands behind all products we sell and will continue to do so in the future. If any of you have any problem with any pen kit, please contact our customer service department at 1-800-551-8876.


 
Awesome!!

CSUSA's customer service is second to none. I recall I had an issue one time with the receiving the wrong blanks. I called them up, and they sent out the correct blanks free of charge, and did NOT want me to return the others! I was so elated, I placed another large order that weekend. Good karma all around! :biggrin:


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## jttheclockman (Aug 28, 2009)

Now that is definetly customer service. Good news all around.


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## bitshird (Aug 28, 2009)

GPDMTR25 said:


> I guess someone there received my letter with all the comments from this thread. Included in the letter was my request for replacement for 6 clips so I hope those are coming as well
> 
> I've had the best customer service from them and figured if I wrote a letter they would correct the problem.
> Angela



Angela, New clips, won't help, Eric says the problem lies in the part that goes into the tube being too large, not the hole in the clip being too small.


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## rjwolfe3 (Aug 29, 2009)

I am glad to see that some companies are finally listening to their customers instead of assuming that they are the only ones with a problem.


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## TX_Planes (Aug 29, 2009)

Eric,

Thank you for keeping us informed.  This kind of CS is what turns customers into vocal advocates for their favorite supplier.


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## GPDMTR25 (Aug 30, 2009)

bitshird said:


> Angela, New clips, won't help, Eric says the problem lies in the part that goes into the tube being too large, not the hole in the clip being too small.


 
I didn't have a problem with the Gents since I haven't done one yet but when I saw this thread I check them and they didn't fit. That's why I copied everyone's post from the first day and mailed it with my request for new ones. 

I just received new top parts and clips for the Gents (I haven't done one yet just have the kits) and clips for the Statesmsns. I was finally able to complete the three Statesman setting on my desk. 

So I'm not sure what's wrong with the Statesman. All I know is the new clips worked fine. 

Angela


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## GPDMTR25 (Aug 30, 2009)

rjwolfe3 said:


> I am glad to see that some companies are finally listening to their customers instead of assuming that they are the only ones with a problem.


 

*A BIG AMEND to that. I've contacted several other companies that have done just that! *

I don't think the old saying "the customer is always right" has been heard of by most companies.  You just have to weed the companies out from the bad. 

Angela


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## ericatcraft (Aug 31, 2009)

Wheaties said:


> Are you allowed to provide us with what IS the acceptable tolerance?



Today I heard from our supplier concerning the acceptable tolerance for the Statesman and Gentlemen pen caps.  The tolerance that they gave us was .553 inches.  If any of you have any other questions, please feel free to contact Technical Support at 1-800-551-8876.


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## ed4copies (Aug 31, 2009)

ericatcraft said:


> Today I heard from our supplier concerning the acceptable tolerance for the Statesman and Gentlemen pen caps.  The tolerance that they gave us was .553 inches.  If any of you have any other questions, please feel free to contact Technical Support at 1-800-551-8876.



Eric,

I'm guessing they said .553mm MILLIMETERS.

.553 inches is over half an inch.


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## Wheaties (Aug 31, 2009)

ed4copies said:


> Eric,
> 
> I'm guessing they said .553mm MILLIMETERS.
> 
> .553 inches is over half an inch.




I think inches is correct. 0.553 mm would be the equivalent of 5 sheets of paper (you should know that, Ed!). Inches makes more sense. We ARE talking about the Gent. and Statesman kits.


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## Wheaties (Aug 31, 2009)

Wait... is the standard for the kit 0.553 inches, or is the tolerance from the standard 0.553 mm like Ed said? I'm confused. 

I'm not able to check and actual kit until this evening.


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## ericatcraft (Aug 31, 2009)

I apologize for the confusing wording in the last post.  The .553 inches is the maximum diameter that the cap can be to safely press into the tube without cracking the blank.  Anything over that will not safely press into the tube.  Again I apologize for the confusion.


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## wolftat (Aug 31, 2009)

ed4copies said:


> Eric,
> 
> I'm guessing they said .553mm MILLIMETERS.
> 
> .553 inches is over half an inch.


 .553 inches the maximun size that the caps are allowed to be according to their Tech support, it is not the acceptable tolerance. I just got off the phone with them and they are taking care of whatever issues are reported to them. They are a lot easier to deal with than some other companies I have dealt with.


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## wolftat (Aug 31, 2009)

He beat me to it by a keystroke....LOL


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## Wheaties (Aug 31, 2009)

ericatcraft said:


> I apologize for the confusing wording in the last post.  The .553 inches is the maximum diameter that the cap can be to safely press into the tube without cracking the blank.  Anything over that will not safely press into the tube.  Again I apologize for the confusion.



Thanks for the clarification and follow-up to the problem alot of us are facing!


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## george (Aug 31, 2009)

I also agree that CSUSA has great after sale support. 
I had this problem for quite some time, and to solve it I purhcased this 30 $ kit with "hand drilling machine" and about 100 different brushing/drilling parts.
I just lightly touch inside of the clip and it nicley slide's onto the cap.


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## JimMc7 (Aug 31, 2009)

ericatcraft said:


> I apologize for the confusing wording in the last post. The .553 inches is the maximum diameter that the cap can be to safely press into the tube without cracking the blank. Anything over that will not safely press into the tube. Again I apologize for the confusion.


 
Eric -- although not as severe -- I've had a similar problem with the Jr Statesman II kits. I ordered 12 of the kits on August 18 and the clip fit too tightly on the top cap. Normally, I just slip the clip on and then press the clip-cap assembly into the completed cap blank. With 8 of the kits I received I had to press the clip on the top cap in an extra (split) tube and then knock out the clip-cap assembly. I could then press this clip-cap assembly on the cap blank as usual. Again, not a showstopper because I have a work-around. It is a nuisance, though.

I think in this case, the clip is the problem rather than the cap -- just an FYI in case others have the problem, too.


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## mcomeau (Aug 31, 2009)

I just sanded the inside of the clip until it fit.  It wasn't that much of a problem and didn't take long to do.

Matt


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## Rick_G (Aug 31, 2009)

Haven't made this particular kit but have run into the same problem with the black ti. slim.


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## NewLondon88 (Aug 31, 2009)

mcomeau said:


> I just sanded the inside of the clip until it fit.  It wasn't that much of a problem and didn't take long to do.



Pen might not last long, though. Once you break through the plating, they
can have a tendency to de-laminate.


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