# Turns at craft shows



## jrc (Jul 12, 2004)

How many turns pens at craft shows


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## melogic (Jul 13, 2004)

Jim,
I have been considering turning at craft shows. I am curious about the liability. I think if people actually see how these writing instruments are made, they will be more apt to purchase. I also know of a few shows that will waive your booth fees for a demonstration.


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## melchioe (Jul 13, 2004)

After a few shows, I am considering ONLY doing shows that have electrical power to let me turn (don't have a sufficiently quiet generator).  With my wife to talk to customers and take turns at the lathe, it really generates much more traffic, and really drives home the point that they are handmade - it seems to justify in people's minds the relatively high prices (compared to Target, anyway...)

I also will only do juried shows too.  No open shows.  At the open shows, people are looking for low-cost bargains, not high-quality good deals. [8D]


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## Daniel (Jul 13, 2004)

Never had a craft show where I coudl set up such a situation. also have only recently purchased a lathe small enough to move to a show.


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## jrc (Jul 13, 2004)

I have a piece of plexy glass in front of my lathe and after turning a few thousand pens I have never had a blank come apart and hit it.  I never do big craft shows.  They charge to much and charge people to get in and they have to many vendors. If your charged $400 or $500 to get into a big craft show you have to sell alot of pens to make it worth while.  If you go to a small shoe and cost $20 to setup and make $300 or more it was worth it.


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## gtanajewski (Jul 27, 2004)

Mark, You have a liability at craft shows without turning pens.  Anyone injured while in, your craft space can and some have sued.


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## jrc (Jul 28, 2004)

I'm wondering how someone will get injured from wood chips.  I keep my gouge out of reach form anyone while not in use.  I guess some kid could polk there self in the eye with a pen.  How do you think someone can get hurt?


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## Gregory Huey (Jan 8, 2005)

I have not worked a show where they supplied power but would think it would help increase sales. Kind of bring home the point of hand made and should also help draw a crowed.


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## dougle40 (Jan 8, 2005)

While I've never turned a pen at a show , I've often toyed with the idea of having blanks all glued up and ready to go and custom turn pens for customers while they wait . They could pick out the wood and style that they want , then stand there while I turned amd finished it . Could be a good sales tactic .


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## PenWorks (Jan 9, 2005)

I will clarify my yes answer. I do not do craft shows, but about 2-3 times a year, when our town has a thing going on. I set up my lathe and display outside my office and turn. Do not turn pens for orders, but more like a demo on how pens are made. Sometimes it's real good and sometimes folks just walk on bye.....  Anthony


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## penhead (Jan 9, 2005)

Anthony, can you supply any more insight into what would be required to cover ourselves as far as liability should we disire to turn at craft shows.?

I can see where it _might_ help draw some customers in. But, if even a slight wind blew a piece of sawdust into the eye of an onlooker, or maybe an errant chip, or who knows what...well, we do live in a sue happy world nowadays.

Thanks,
JohnPayton


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## PenWorks (Jan 9, 2005)

How true John, First, find your homeowners policcy. If your like most of my clients, after they get it in the mail, they loose it within a week and have never read it.

Read the definition of business, then read the liability section. All policies are worded different. If you feel comfortable that your policy does not think your hobby is a business, then you should have coverage under your homeownes policy. If your not sure, call your agent and have him clarify it. Don't take maybe for an answer. YES OR NO. If he says yes, document the phone call. Because should the company decline a future claim, you can then sue your agent for coverage, because he told you it was covered.

Most homeowners policies exclude business personal property and business liablity coverage.

Should your company offer a "home base business endorsement" BUY IT. It can run 100-200 a year and is well worth it. It will pick up coverage for your business contents at home, tools equipment, all the wood and parts etc. also picks up lialbility exposures on and away from the premises.

This is the endorsement I have, I think most companies will give you this endorsement if your sales are under 50 or 100K a year. (Be nice to have that problem)

If a show requires you to provide them with a certificate of insurance, you will be hard pressed to obtain that from a regular homeowners policy.

Another thing, if a person should get hurt in front of your booth, and you have no coverage, they will be suing the event sponsor and the property owner and anyone else remotely involved.

I have plenty of safety glasses around and keep folks more than an arm distance away and allways unplug my equipement when I step away from my table.

This is just an opinion and in no way should be considerd advise to coverage. Consult your policy, agent and company for coverage.

Had to throw in my disclaimer! Knock on wood, 22 years haven't been sued yet!

Anthony


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## penhead (Jan 9, 2005)

Thanks Anthony, I feel pretty sure so far there should be no problem convincing anyone it is just a hobby.
It sure would be nice to ever reach 50K/year in sales...won't have that problem for a while.

I would be willing to spring the couple of hundred a year for the "home based business endorsement", but would that affect tax requirements. Hobby taxes are different than business tax I think.

JohnPayton


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## penhead (Jan 9, 2005)

And I would never hold you to anything on questions of insurance or coverage...unless of course you happened to be my agent that is...[]

JohnPayton


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## PenWorks (Jan 11, 2005)

John, that coverage endorsement would be there to cover your A**, in the event of a liability claim. The U.S. Treasury could care less whether you have it or not. If you want to disclose your hobby on your taxes, that would be totally up to that person and their CPA. The majority of hobbyist do so little, they don't disclose it, BUT, the liability exposure is still there. 

Kinda like the guy that says, I don't buy car insurace because I don't drive that much....DA !


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## Old Griz (Jan 11, 2005)

If you are a member of AAW, their insurance will cover anyone watching you do a demo... however I recommend that you set up a shield in front of your lathe... at our club we use a piece of clear plexiglass between the lathe (mostly Jet Mini's) and those watching us turn... Even though AAW covers you and your club in case of an accident... there is no excuse for not protecting the public from a possible problem.. Better safe than sorry...


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## Fred in NC (Jan 11, 2005)

I have never turned at a show. I have an observation and a question.

From what I read, the blanks are prepared ahead of time, with the tube glued in.  So the only operation that is watched by the public is the actual turning.  That does not take very long.  Finishing can take much longer, but I doubt that anybody will stay and watch until the pen is finished.   

Also, casual observers will look at the mandrel, and see only the wood.

What I am concerned about is giving the wrong impression, that turning a pen is something simple that can be done in 5 minutes.  Then we ask for $20 or more for the 5 minutes work.  

Is this a valid concern?


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## penhead (Jan 11, 2005)

Thanks for the input Tom, and yes I am a member of the AAW...but I thought the AAW only covered you if you were doing something like a club sanctioned demo...and not if you were turning at a craftshow on your own iniative..?

JohnPayton


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## Fred in NC (Jan 11, 2005)

John, I think you are right about the AAW insurance coverage.  It is for AAW related activities, including local chapters.


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## tipusnr (Jan 11, 2005)

I only do demos sponsored by the club.  I also don't turn straight slimlines when doing a demo.  I talk to people while turning about the different choices you have in kits, woods, non-wood materials, tools, shapes, and finishes to create (not make) a pen.  Coupled with the fact that I am just not that aggressive in my cuts it draws the timeframe out a bit.

And yes I do have people stick around to watch the application of friction finishes, buffing, and assembly.  The key is to keep talking and keep them involved in wanting to see the finished product.  Usually there are, at least, two other turners there working on bowls and other turning as well.  What is fun is when a couple of us are making pens with the same kits and wood so people can see the what the turner puts into it (my first instructor usually turns pens with me and he doesn't do strict slimlines either. Additionally he turns almost totally with gouges and I turn almost totally with a skew.)


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## melogic (Jan 11, 2005)

I have turned at a couple of shows, and you would be surprised at how long people will stand around to see exactly how this item was made. I generally have some scrap blanks set up in stages from blank to drilled to ready to turn. Then while at the show I turn what is already prepered. I have my wife and daughter with me, this makes it easier. I have turned toothpick key chains at shows and have had people stand from start to finish to buy the key chain they watched me turn, not interested in the other 20 or so already turned and on display. A lot of times shows will waive the booth fee or at least give a discount for doing demonstrations.


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