# solid headstock dead center?



## atbinkowski (Jun 3, 2015)

Hello! I'm new to pen turning and have made a few using a mandrel but wanted to try TBC. The issue I have is the headstock on my lathe is solid, no MT. I've been searching for a few days now to find any information or product for a thread on dead center with no avail. Am I just out of luck and need to consider a new lathe if I want to pursue TBC (not so much up to having mine machined to take a MT right now..)?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Tony


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## KBs Pensnmore (Jun 3, 2015)

atbinkowski said:


> Hello! I'm new to pen turning and have made a few using a mandrel but wanted to try TBC. The issue I have is the headstock on my lathe is solid, no MT. I've been searching for a few days now to find any information or product for a thread on dead center with no avail. Am I just out of luck and need to consider a new lathe if I want to pursue TBC (not so much up to having mine machined to take a MT right now..)?
> 
> Thanks in advance for any help.
> 
> Tony




Hi Tony, Welcome to the forum. Any chance of a picture of the headstock, what make is your lathe?
It's always best to submit this information, where possible, as answers can be directed to the ones with this lathe/problem. 
I ask, as someone with that model lathe, could chime in with what they'd done to get around the problem.
Is the shaft on the headstock threaded? Do you know what size thread it is? If so you could get a nut made with the dead centre machined on it.
Kryn


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## longbeard (Jun 3, 2015)

Welcome to the IAP.

What kind of lathe do have? That will help us help you.



Harry


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## atbinkowski (Jun 3, 2015)

Thank you! I've been learning quite here. I believe it is a sears model (or similar), but there is no identification on it that I've been able to find. It is an older model, probably a few decades older. The headstock is 3/4" x16TPI. 

Kryn - that's an interesting thought. I'll have to see if my neighbor can help me out with that one (he works at a metal supply/machine shop).


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## Dan Masshardt (Jun 3, 2015)

What kind of mandrel are you using now?


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## atbinkowski (Jun 3, 2015)

I'm using a 7mm mandrel with a threaded adapter from Penn State. It works but my pens aren't coming out round, at least where the hardware meets the pen and when you twist the pen open you can see the two pieces don't stay aligned (if that makes sense). It's good for now as I learn and practice, but I'd like to make higher quality soon.


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## JimB (Jun 3, 2015)

atbinkowski said:


> I'm using a 7mm mandrel with a threaded adapter from Penn State. It works but my pens aren't coming out round, at least where the hardware meets the pen and when you twist the pen open you can see the two pieces don't stay aligned (if that makes sense). It's good for now as I learn and practice, but I'd like to make higher quality soon.



Your mandrel is probably bent. Remove the mandrel from the adapter and roll it on a flat surface such as your kitchen counter top. Straightening it can be a challenge but a new rod is cheap.


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## atbinkowski (Jun 3, 2015)

That's the odd thing - sometimes it acts bent and other times it doesn't (by testing it with the flat side of a chisel along the length of the mandrel. Sometimes it bounces and others its smooth). I've tested it this way with just barely having the tailstock against the mandrel and tightening it as I test. I get mixed results either way (loose, slightly tight, or as tight as I think I should go before bending the mandrel myself...)

I'm considering another mandrel, but concerned that I'll have the same situation. I'd like to get away from the issue all together or find out why my mandrel is sometimes good and sometimes not.


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## JimB (Jun 3, 2015)

If you can't find anything you could make your own dead center. Get a nut that fits your headstock (Fastenal sells them). Use 2 part apoxy to attach the nut to a piece of hard wood. Screw it onto the headstock and turn the wood down to a dead center. Obviously not a permanent solution but something to try.


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## mark james (Jun 3, 2015)

Hi Tony!

Welcome from Medina.  Not sure where you are in Ohio, but towards Akron/Cleveland we meet regularly at Hartville Lumber.  We will be there on June 12!

If you want more infor, let me know.  And we love to help each other out 

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f84/


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## The Penguin (Jun 3, 2015)

sounds like your mandrel is flexing 

2 possible solutions - 

1 - you're putting too much pressure on the tailstock, back off a bit.
2 - get a "mandrel saver" live center, like this one: #2 MT Pen Mandrel Saver Package at Penn State Industries

the mandrel saver puts pressure directly on the bushings, instead of on the mandrel.


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## Robert Taylor (Jun 3, 2015)

*Meeting at Hartville Hardware*



mark james said:


> Hi Tony!
> 
> Welcome from Medina.  Not sure where you are in Ohio, but towards Akron/Cleveland we meet regularly at Hartville Lumber.  We will be there on June 12!
> 
> ...



June 12 ???


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## atbinkowski (Jun 3, 2015)

I was thinking of turning my own as well, but couldn't figure out how I was going to get on the lathe - thank you for the idea!


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## mark james (Jun 3, 2015)

bettyt44720 said:


> mark james said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Tony!
> ...



SORRY - June 20!!!


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## atbinkowski (Jun 3, 2015)

Thank you for the invite Mark! I'm in Solon and have church function on Friday nights I can't miss. But I'll be down in Hartville on Saturday set up at the Flea for All in downtown. Not an ideal show but my first outdoor show this year (for my jewelry business...). Need to get the kinks out of the system  I've heard Hartville Lumber is a good place for supplies too...

I'll look into the mandrel saver as well. I like the capability to turn two blanks at a time, but this wobble thing is getting to me. I'll keep backing off the tailstock to see if that helps as well.


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## atbinkowski (Jun 3, 2015)

Now the 20th I can make if I'm in town


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## its_only_me (Jun 3, 2015)

See if you can get a collet chuck like this Axminster Junior Chuck - Woodturners Chucks - Woodturners Chucks - Woodturning - Woodturning & Crafts | Axminster Tools & Machinery


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## Paul in OKC (Jun 3, 2015)

One thing not mentioned is your live center. If it is the stock one, they tend to not be 60 degrees but more pointed to stick into wood. If this is the case, the tail stock end can wobble at times as the point hits in the bottom of the center drilled place in the mandrel. You can file the end of the point off so it doesn't hit and this will allow the  "cone" of the mandrel to sit better on the center. Did that to mine years ago, before I bought a 60 degree live center.


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## atbinkowski (Jun 3, 2015)

Awesome! I've been looking for exactly that! Thank you!


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## atbinkowski (Jun 3, 2015)

Ahh, now that makes sense Paul. I'll do that and see if it helps. Thank you.


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## monophoto (Jun 3, 2015)

JimB said:


> If you can't find anything you could make your own dead center. Get a nut that fits your headstock (Fastenal sells them). Use 2 part apoxy to attach the nut to a piece of hard wood. Screw it onto the headstock and turn the wood down to a dead center. Obviously not a permanent solution but something to try.




Instead of starting with a nut, go to Ace Hardware to buy a 3/4"x16tpi tap.  Drill and tap a block of hardwood wood (maple works fine) so that it screws directly onto the spindle of the lathe, and then mount and turn the block to make the drive center.

Orienting the block of wood as a spindle will produce the strongest drive center, but the threads will be weaker.  Orienting the wood so that you are drilling and tapping face grain will produce stronger threads, but a weaker drive center.  You can compromise by using two blocks of wood - drill and tap one in face grain, and then mount it and turn a recess in the face - a 3/4" diameter hole, 1/4" deep is fine.  Mount the second between centers in spindle orientation, and then turn a tenon that will mate with the recess (3/4" diameter, a bit less than 1/4" long).  Glue the two pieces together, and after the glue cures, finish turning the drive center.  If the drive center eventually wears out, just turn away that spindle portion, glue a new spindle block in place and turn it down to the appropriate size.


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## Carl Fisher (Jun 3, 2015)

Collet chuck (which is infinitely useful anyway) and a straigh shank 60-degree center from Rick Herrel in a size to match one of your collets.


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## BSea (Jun 3, 2015)

Carl Fisher said:


> Collet chuck (which is infinitely useful anyway) and a straigh shank 60-degree center from Rich Herrel in a size to match one of your collets.


This is the best answer.  You'll need a 3/4" collet, but if you buy a collet set, it should include that collet.

Here's Rick's vendor page: http://www.penturners.org/forum/f172/custom-made-penturning-tools-accessories-92501/ The straight shank dead center is the next to the last item on the page.  And I see it's a 1/2" center standard.  I guess I ordered mine as 3/4".  But most collet sets will include a 1/2" as well as a 3/4"  (along with a few others).

Here's a collet set: Apprentice Collet Chuck 7 Piece Set | Shop Supplies | Craft Supplies USA


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## Magicbob (Jun 3, 2015)

Mark tried twice to give you the date for the Ohio IAP meeting at Hartville Hardware, and he missed it twice(at least he is contestant)
The Meeting is June 13, 2015 we will get started somewhere around 1:30 -2:00

Snap a couple of photos of you lathe and bring them with you, there is a ton of experience there, I'm sure someone will help.


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## Paul in OKC (Jun 3, 2015)

Actually, I used to have an old lathe with that nose. Made a couple of things for it. Found them in a drawer a while back. If I have one, I will let you know! You would be welcome to it to try out.


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## atbinkowski (Jun 3, 2015)

Magicbob - Thanks for the date for the meeting. I'll be in town, but at a show in downtown Hartville during that time. I'll get some pictures taken and post them up.

Paul - I appreciate it!


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## Paul in OKC (Jun 8, 2015)

Well, I don't have one, but if you don't find one let me know and I can whip one up!


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## Shock me (Jun 8, 2015)

While you figure out how to go TBC, consider doing only one blank at a time on the mandrel
I think all of the oft-cited mandrel problems are bad enough doing one barrel and just that much worse doing two.  Any bend of the mandrel will cause more wobble the longer it is. Yes, it's convenient doing two at once, but you're going TBC so you'll be doing them one at a time soon enough. It takes longer, but your results will be much better


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## mredburn (Jun 8, 2015)

Is it possible the dead center is simply stuck in the head stock spindle?


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## Dale Allen (Jun 8, 2015)

I'm thinking it is like Mike says and it is just stuck in there.
Probably been there so long it seems like one solid piece.
Looking over parts list and manuals of old lathes, even they had Morse tapers, maybe an MT-0
May take some serious muscle to get it loose!


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## mredburn (Jun 8, 2015)

I had one that had  a spur drive in it as well as the 3/4-16 threaded spindle. It also was frozen solid in the spindle.


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## bobleibo (Jun 8, 2015)

Tony
Lots of great info here, as you've seen. 
Regarding your intermittent OOR (out of round) issue, have you checked to see that your headstock and tailstock are lined up tip to tip? That can play a big part in that problem. Just put your dead center on the drive and a live center on the tail and run them together. 
Cheers
Bob


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## atbinkowski (Jun 9, 2015)

Hi all. Sorry I haven't responded quickly. I believe the headstock is solid. I've swapped out my the spur drive for my mandrel and faceplate, depending on my mood, but I'll double check. 

I would do one at a time if I had the capability. Right now, I don't. I'm fairly certain the head and tail stock are aligned, though I haven't checked it recently. I think I might have another issue as well - out of round pulley wheels. Its not too noticeable on the low speed, but on the high end it causes vibrations. I'm planning on getting a different lathe in the next week or so, either one for just pens or a more solid one.


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## atbinkowski (Jun 9, 2015)

Here is my lathe. The headstock and pulley spin together and appear to be attached as pulleys normally are (the set screw). My assumption has been that's just the way it's suppose to be and the headstock can't be changed. Please correct me if I'm wrong because that will save me all sorts of headaches


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## 79spitfire (Jun 9, 2015)

It looks like it's made up of parts. You will have to make adapters for what you need, or replace the lathe. It's so cool looking I think I would make adapters!


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## farmer (Jun 11, 2015)

*New lathe*



atbinkowski said:


> Hi all. Sorry I haven't responded quickly. I believe the headstock is solid. I've swapped out my the spur drive for my mandrel and faceplate, depending on my mood, but I'll double check.
> 
> I would do one at a time if I had the capability. Right now, I don't. I'm fairly certain the head and tail stock are aligned, though I haven't checked it recently. I think I might have another issue as well - out of round pulley wheels. Its not too noticeable on the low speed, but on the high end it causes vibrations. I'm planning on getting a different lathe in the next week or so, either one for just pens or a more solid one.


 

I have 3 of these lathes 
Large bore headstock


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