# Sanding Burls



## Dave_Junior (Apr 26, 2016)

I have turned 2 un-stabilized burl slimline pens. It was hard for me to get the the scratches out of it. I know with a regular pen blank you sand with the lathe on and then sand with the grain. But how to you "sand with the grain" on a burl? I have some nicer stabilized burls coming in the mail and I don't want to ruin them. Any tips for sanding stabilized burls? Thanks in advance,

Dave


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## ElMostro (Apr 26, 2016)

Burls can be tricky bec of the grain. There are alot of variables to consider; dense or soft burl?, Type of sand paper you are using? some of the more "economical" ones have inconsistent grit and some of the grit comes loose and stick to the next grit creating more scratches; automotive sand paper or woodworking sand paper? What grit are you starting at? Starting with 320 makes smaller scratches than stating with 120.  

The key is to make sure you sand out the scratches from the previous grit before you move to the next one.  Also, make sure not to skip grits.  I use DNA to wipe down the blank after each grit it cleans out any loose sand that may be lingering on the blank and also allows you to better see any scratches that the previous grit may have left behind.  Take your time with the coarser grits and use light pressure.  

There are plenty of other things to consider but some of the above hints will get you started on the right track.


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## Dave_Junior (Apr 26, 2016)

Thanks for the reply, I am using woodworking sandpaper (the stuff that comes on the rolls) and start with 150 grit. The burls are walnut and maple. What is the best technique to use when sanding? What direction? If I keep sanding, will I be able to get rid of the scratches?


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## nativewooder (Apr 26, 2016)

Make sure your tools are very, very sharp because that determines what grit you can use to start sanding.  If you are using carbide tools, you have a problem.

As a general rule, burls have no grain, they are like a cancerous tumor that keeps growing until they are cut off the tree.  If you have a compressor available, you can blow off the dust after sanding with each grit.  Use a magnifying glass to make sure you are not leaving any scratches that the next grit cannot remove.  It takes practice to get better!:biggrin:


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## stonepecker (Apr 26, 2016)

Each blank is different.  You will find that what works on one .... doesn't work on the next.  You will have to see what is working as you go.  With experience you will learn many things that can work.   How you apply these, is going to be up to you.

Try it all.  You will learn fast what is best for you and the type of burl you are turning.

Good luck.


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## nativewooder (Apr 26, 2016)

I would also suggest that you learn to sand on regular blanks and then when you are happy with your sanding finish on regular and cross grain, sanding burls will seem easy!:wink:


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## raar25 (Apr 26, 2016)

Your original question is a little flawed.  There are always scratches, so the question is how do you make them small enough and oriented so they blend and are not visible without a lot of magnification.  So you need to get to a fine enough grit to make the scratches small and with a burl sand in circular irregular motions so the small scratch patters blend well.


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## jcm71 (Apr 26, 2016)

I think those sanding rolls may be your problem.  I had the same problems with them when I was using them.  Try switching to Abranet.  It is far superior to the sanding rolls, which I personally think are crap.  Barring that, make sure you sand with a very light touch.  Depending on how good you are with a skew (takes practice) you should be able to start your sanding at 400 grit.  Good luck.


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## Rick_G (Apr 26, 2016)

I tend to agree with Burlman.  I bought a few and they quickly found their way into the garbage.  When I go to the woodworking shows the #1 thing I am after is sandpaper.  I get it in sheets and cut them into 3/4" wide strips for pen work.  I usually drop $100 - $200 to get enough to last me until the next show a year later.  When you get into the higher grits 800 and above wet dry automotive paper works well.


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## thewishman (Apr 26, 2016)

Dave, the term "sanding with the grain" usually just means that after you sand with the lathe on, stop and sand lengthwise. That will get rid of the scratches around the blank. If the round scratches don't come out, don't move to the next grit, sand more with the current grit. You may(I do) end the sanding with slight scratches going lengthwise, the next grit up should take care of them.

There is no "grain" in acrylic blanks, but the same sanding technique applies to those blanks, too.


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## jttheclockman (Apr 26, 2016)

I am from the school of get rid of the sandpaper on pen blanks. Learn to use a skew. Nothing like a sharp skew and you go from blank to finish. I then wet sand with MM. Saves alot of work. Your mileage may vary.


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## leehljp (Apr 26, 2016)

jttheclockman said:


> I am from the school of get rid of the sandpaper on pen blanks. Learn to use a skew. Nothing like a sharp skew and you go from blank to finish. I then wet sand with MM. Saves alot of work. Your mileage may vary.



Ohh, if only Russ was still with us! And his words are: 
http://www.penturners.org/forum/f28/requires-least-sanding-46171/#post842549
Quote Russ:_What is always left out of any comparison of tool finishes is the wood. All things being equal, shear scraping can leave a better surface finish than a skew chisel on the very hard dense and close grained species, but it can't come anywhere close on everything else. 

If you really want to see the extreme differences, try using a both scraper and skew on Cocobolo, Blackwood, or Desert Ironwood. You will find that the scraper might be the better tool for these very hard species. At the opposite extreme, the scraper will be a disaster on a soft wood like Douglas Fir or Pine, while a sharp skew can leave a smooth clean cut and polished surface that doesn't need sanding._
__________________
Russ Fairfield


Burls in general (IN My Opinion), would do better on a skew in most instances - unless they are stabilized, at which time they will do fairly well on a scraper. I am jealous of the skew users. I have spent hours on them and watched videos and DVDs, tied my tongue in a knot, held it sideways, contorted my face and still can't get the "feel" of the skew.


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## jttheclockman (Apr 26, 2016)

leehljp said:


> jttheclockman said:
> 
> 
> > I am from the school of get rid of the sandpaper on pen blanks. Learn to use a skew. Nothing like a sharp skew and you go from blank to finish. I then wet sand with MM. Saves alot of work. Your mileage may vary.
> ...



Hank you are so right. The nice thing about a skew is you can turn into a scraper or use traditionally depending how the material is reacting. I found the key to using a skew is the abitlity to support it with your forefinger and be able to ride the bevel. The need for a smooth tool rest is important and I use those ones with the stainless rod on top and they are beautiful to control tools because the way your forefinger lays on it. hard to explain but it works for me.


www.turnrobust.com/tool-rests/


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## geffre (Apr 26, 2016)

Do any of you take your blanks down to 3000 grit?  When I want a super buffed look, I go through 1000, 2000, and then 3000 grit automotive paper.  At that grit, it only takes a couple of seconds to polish out the previous scratches.  If I see any scratches I start over at 400 and work my way up again.


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## farmer (Apr 27, 2016)

*Sanding smooth*

Prepping wood for a clear finish 
I suggest that some of you get a book about wood.

All wood has water pours , tiny little hole in the wood that hold water when the tree is alive.

Burl wood normally weight less because of the size of the water pours in the wood.
Snake wood micro sized water hole = very heavy,    Cocobolo medium sized water holes  and the woods weight reflects that.
Cedar, burl wood some maples and depending how its cut have large water holes or pours.
I use compered air allot.

My point is there is no sanding smooth.........................
Please think about  what I just said about the water pours in the wood and now think about what happens you sand across the grain.

Your sanding the wood but the wood dust is filling up the water pours in the wood .

Sure you getting a smooth surface, imo you are also dulling the woods natural color.
If you took a air gun and blow the dust out of the water pours,you will notice you still have holes in the wood. 

I turn my lathe off and sand with the grain 120 to 220 grit then a couple swipes with a green scotch Brite pad  blow the wood off with dry oil free compressed air.

Straight up
If you are doing a segmented pen and some of the wood is maple and you sand with the lathe on ! 
LOL   Your screwed ...... the dark sanding dust just got into the water pours of the maple and its impossible to get out and your maple will look muddy water brown......


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## Hendu3270 (May 9, 2016)

Dave_Junior said:


> Thanks for the reply, I am using woodworking sandpaper (the stuff that comes on the rolls) and start with 150 grit. The burls are walnut and maple. What is the best technique to use when sanding? What direction? If I keep sanding, will I be able to get rid of the scratches?



I would suggest making very light final cuts with your tools and start sanding at 320+ in my opinion.


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## leehljp (May 9, 2016)

farmer said:


> If you are doing a segmented pen and some of the wood is maple and you sand with the lathe on !
> LOL   Your screwed ...... the dark sanding dust just got into the water pours of the maple and its impossible to get out and your maple will look muddy water brown......



. . . hence what John T said about the skew and Russ said about the scraper, depending on the type of wood. Done correctly and with practice, a very smooth wood finish can be obtained without using any sandpaper, with the skew or the scraper, depending upon the wood type.


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## jttheclockman (May 9, 2016)

leehljp said:


> farmer said:
> 
> 
> > If you are doing a segmented pen and some of the wood is maple and you sand with the lathe on !
> ...




It is so true Hank. As an example, if I had to hit this pen with sandpaper, oh the mess I would have had. The ebony would have contaminated the holly for sure. So many of those scratch problems can be eliminated. No need to have a wood blank baby bottom smooth. You are putting a finish on the pen.


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## farmer (May 19, 2016)

*That pen*



jttheclockman said:


> leehljp said:
> 
> 
> > farmer said:
> ...




Wow  I am impressed .


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## jttheclockman (May 19, 2016)

These were done a couple years ago. People here are tired of seeing them.


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