# Anyone know a lot about pistols???



## GrantH (Feb 11, 2012)

I'm looking to buy a compact. A .45 would be great, but i'm not partial. 

I'm looking at:

S&W 442 .38 J Frame Revolver
ATI 1911 .45 Officer Ultra Compact
S&W SD40
Ruger SR40c

I've read good about all them, and mediocre about the ATI. A friend has the ATI, and it is very comfortable in my hand...but reviews are mixed. It's a steel frame as well. 

Opinions, advice? Looking for a truck/carry gun.


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## mredburn (Feb 11, 2012)

Depending on your proficiency with a hand gun at present, the  amount of time you can practice with which ever choice you make.
With out knowing that I would recomend a revolver in .357 not .38.  Practice with .38s and carry .357 jhp or one of the talon type defense loads.


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## bubbatww (Feb 11, 2012)

My conceal carry/truck pistol is a Glock 33 sub compact 357 sig. Ive carried it for about 8 years now and really like the size. I have smaller hands so it great, but its not for everyone and you will get lots of personal opinions. My best advice is shoot many different pistols and find one you are comfortable with.


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## vthowe (Feb 11, 2012)

Hey Grant - I wouldn't pass by taking a look at the Springfield XDM series.  It's a lot of gun for a decent price.  Many of the "agencies" are starting to carry the XDM .40.  Worth getting your hands on before you decide anyway.

Springfield Armory - Introducing the XD(M)® Polymer Handgun


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## Rounder (Feb 11, 2012)

I have the S&W Sigma .40. Nice shooting pistol but a little heavy on the trigger pull. I like it over the Glock because my hand is further away from the slide when it comes back. My brother-in-law actually got pinched with the Glock slide but he does have bigger hands than me.


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## jeff (Feb 11, 2012)

For a .40, how about the Glock 23 (a little beefy for comfortable carry), or the 27 if it's not too small to be comfortable in your hand. In .45, how about the slim frame G36 if 6 rounds is adequate, or the G30SF?


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## Richard Van Hulle (Feb 11, 2012)

*Hand gun*

Keep the big hole pointed away from yourself when you pull the trigger:biggrin:!  That's all I know. Hope that helps.   Richard


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## LeeR (Feb 11, 2012)

I am a Glock fan. I've got a model 19, which is the 9mm compact (just slightly smaller than the standard model 19). Glock also sells the 26, a subcompact. I chose 9mm because ammo is plentiful, and relatively inexpensive. Super reliable - in over a 1000 rounds I've put thru it, not a single misfeed or misfire. It is also the easist, fastest gun to strip, clean, and reassemble that I've ever used. This is my home defense gun, and probably a little large for what I'd want for concealed carry, but many do use it, including the two instructors for the carry class I attended. (Interestingly, the both carried Colt 1911 .45s before going to Glock 19s).

People dismiss 9mm as too small, but if you cannot stop someone with 15 rounds of 9mm, you either need to get some training, or switch to a shotgun!

You will lilely hear praises for 45s, revolvers, etc., so you may want to go to an indoor range that let's you rent different handguns, and give them all a try. Everyone likes something different, and aren't we lucky we have so many choices. Given enough disposable cash, I'd like to have one of everything ...


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## JRay8 (Feb 11, 2012)

a gun your admiring in a magazine may not fit your hand or may have features that you dont like. the most important thing is to be comfy with your choice. go to your local store and handle each one. does it feel good? can you operate it, clear it, load it, etc... how about the weight, are you going to be ok to carry it all day?


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## The Penguin (Feb 11, 2012)

get a .45 - only because you can't get a .46  :biggrin:

in reality - I carry a pocket .380 daily. I also have a Glock 27 (.40 caliber). I carry the .40 with an OWB holster and shirt untucked when I carry it.

I'd carry a .45, but I generally find them too heavy and not comfortable in my hand.


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## IPD_Mr (Feb 11, 2012)

Take a look at the Walther PPS, it has a .40S&W Caliber option. If you have the chance to go to a gun shop with a range, some of them have rentals that you can try. This will give you more of a chance to see how the gun fits you.

Hopefully my FIL will chime in here. With 29+ years of police experience (on the right side) :tongue:  he should be able to give some good advice.


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## Florida Marine (Feb 11, 2012)

I've got several carry pistols my .45 is a Springfield Armory compact (officers model) with some light mods.  I also have an Interarms FireStar in .40...but lately my go to has been a Smith and Wesson Bodyguard .38. 

Not sure I am totally enamored with the laser button, but I like the weight/size and the .38 with a +P is a decent defense round. 

I also have a Glock 19 that I carry with Glazer safety rounds in it if I know i am going to be in crowded areas.  The 19 is big for a concealed carry, but I am also 6'6" 260 ish...so not a big deal for me.

If your not a frequent shooter - and/or don't practice a Glock is always good since you don't have to fumble with a safety.  I've had to go to a pistol in times of stress once or twice and you would be amazed how goofy your hands/brain get.

If you really want a SA .45 and can afford it... Kimber.  Flat out nicest carry pistol.


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## BKelley (Feb 11, 2012)

+++ on the .380.  I have a little Colt Govt. 380 in stainless that is a pure joy to carry.  My advice to you is carry the gun that you can hit with.  A .22 single shot  that you can hit with is better than a .45 you can't hit with.

Ben


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## moke (Feb 11, 2012)

I ve been a Police Officer for 33 years now. When I first started we actually got mandatory time off for not carrying. So living with a hunk of metal on your person became a way of life for a long time. Eventially we were not required to carry and a lot of us quit, until we had several incidents that brought most of us to the mind set to carry again. 

IMHO, I would buy a weapon that you can LIVE with...literally. I have had 40 or 50 guns in my carreer and carried and qualified with them all. While smaller guns may be less desirable when you need to use it, it is better than no gun at all. When you carry the .45's no matter what size, they are heavy, the ammo is a big source of your weight. It will pull your pants down. I carried a model 66 2" 357 for a while and fell on the ice onto it...that was not good either. I carried a colt commander for a while and I spent all my time pulling up my pants!!!! Dumb as it sounds, it was an issue. I now have two guns that I conceal...a Ruger LCP...which is only .380...but fits in my back pocket or I have a Sig P235 which is slightly bigger but light and shoots like a dream.

I must point out, that on duty, we carry Glock model 22...40 cal...glock makes an awesome weapon, that for me, at least in the last 15 years have been flawless in their functioning. If you can live with weapons that are not sub compact..they are awesome guns. The models 23 and 27 are owned by many of friends and they carry them always....I just want something smaller in size.

Guns, like anything are a matter of personal perference.


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## Finatic (Feb 11, 2012)

I have been looking at the Ruger LCP in .380 and now want to try one out. I have a Baretta .32 sub compact, but you need to be a good shot. You can hear the bullet hit the ground about 30 yds out.
I would really like the Taurus Judge in .45/.410 but it is rather heavy.


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## Rick P (Feb 11, 2012)

One thing no one has mentioned.......range time! Handguns require that you do the range time needed to be proficient with them, not just once in a while "to tune up" but regularly! It is MUCH harder to hit your target with a handgun and far too many people dont put in the regular practice needed to be safe with one! If your not willing to dedicate time for regular practice, to ensure your safe with the firearm you choose then you have no right carrying one! A big part of the responsibility of concealed carry is having the dedication to ensure your going to be safe in a tactical situation. IT TAKES WORK, we are not talking about a video game or even a taser. Once you pull the trigger there is no taking that bullet back.

If possible it's always best to actually shoot the gun your looking at before buying. Some places rent, maybe you know someone who has one of the guns you are looking to buy? Hand guns are very individualized.......I like revolvers and would never pick a semi auto if my life were on the line. BUT they are what I have been shooting since I was a kid.


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## Smitty37 (Feb 11, 2012)

*.357 Mag*

Personally I'd get a .357 mag that will also chamber .38 Special.  I always practiced with wad cutters to get the kick out of the picture, but had the heavier hitter when shooting for real.  If you ever have to shoot someone you want them to stop and drop right where you hit them. 

Self defense with a hand gun is a special skill...shooting at about 7 or 8 yards (or even less) without a whole lot of time to aim... and trust me, it takes a lot of practice to hit even a target as big as a man just drawing and pointing.


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## Displaced Canadian (Feb 11, 2012)

It's good to do your research before you buy. It is best to shoot before you buy DAMHIKT. Something that may seem like a little quirk when looking at it can turn into a major issue when you get it home and use it. Range time is important. When I bought my first handgun and went to the range I hit a lot of things with it. Just not any of the things I was aiming at. About 100 rounds later I was pretty good, 1000 rounds later I was better with my revolver at anything under 75 yards than I was with a rifle. I would fly south for the winter and when I came back 2 months later my shooting was terrible and I used a lot of rounds getting back into shape. I'm with Rick on the revolver thing. But nobody makes a sub compact in .44 Mag. I think it's a bear country thing. A lot of people mauled by bears are found with empty guns never hit the bear. As for the DAMHIKT I bought a rifle and in the shop it looked good and it was what I wanted to buy. I bought it home, mounted a scope on it, and went to the range and it just doesn't fit me. It is a tack driver on the bench I just can't take it hunting because it is too awkward for me too shoot and if a second shot is required what ever I'm trying to hit will die of old age before I can get the second shot off.


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## mredburn (Feb 11, 2012)

Charter arms used to make a .44 special 5 shot snubnose. I have on occasion carried one of those. Dont know if they are still made or not.


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## cwolfs69 (Feb 11, 2012)

+++++ on the .380 here alsp. my wife and i have alarge selection of guns. 1911, .45 ; springfield officer, kimber ultra.  and taurus full size. we both also have springfield EMP's (9mm 1911styles). those we carry when open carrying and weekends.  but both of carry .380 as a full time every day concealed gun. l have a bersa thunder 380 and she carries the SIG P238 deckplate. the ruger LCP is great choice. very compact, many different holsters available. i have kel tec p3at, which the lcp is a copy of, and carry that in my back pocket in summer when wearing shorts and t-shirt. if you really examine the balistics and data, the .380 is really a decent choice. heck, most european LEOs carry .380.

Sent from my Galaxi via forerunner


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## frank123 (Feb 11, 2012)

If you're considering a revolver you might want to take a look at the Ruger LCR in 38 Special +P.  IMO, a 357 in a lightweight short barrel is not always a good idea for several reasons (although mostly range related as in a civilian defensive situation they're not likely to matter).

Revolvers have the advantage of being almost foolproof in operation under just about any circumstances, especially panic.

Buffalo Bore makes a 38 Spc. in a LSWCHP +P that packs almost as much wallop out of a short barrel as any normal .357 load.

In any event, try several out first if you can since the ergonomics of the particular gun for you are more important than just about anything other than reliability.


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## MesquiteMan (Feb 11, 2012)

I really like my Glock 22 .40 cal best out of all my handguns.


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## PenMan1 (Feb 11, 2012)

I have to agree with Curtis and Moke. If I have to reach for the weapon to save my life, it'll be a Glock 40 cal, every time.

This weapon is as reliable as they make, has adequate power and I am deadly with them.....even the mini.


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## ZanderPommo (Feb 11, 2012)

Not sure if anyone has mentioned it but for concealed carry you cant beat Kahr, they have a great reputation, and they are very slim. look into them, maybe shoot one, you'll see what I mean. That being said Im 18 and from illinois, but both my father and I are pretty proficient with handguns, as well as rifles (we both compete in IDPA and IPSC) and the Kahr 9mm is the one my Dad chose when he was considering a personal protection gig he was offered


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## Longfellow (Feb 11, 2012)

I have two a Tauras PT11 9mm. Holds 13 rounds, Light and compct. Ih I can't protect myself with 13 rds, I better get hand grenades. The other is a 6 shot Rossi .357, with a 2 " barrel. A bit heavier then the 9mm. I don't anticipate having to use it many time if and all so it doesn't have to be state of the art.


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## Joe Burns (Feb 11, 2012)

Truck / carry gun is a broad spectrum in use.  

I personally carry a Kimber Ultra Carry II 45.  It has been very reliable and accurate for me with Taps.  If you are not familiar with a 1911 and the way to carry a single action be sure to get lots of practice and range time.   STI is another good brand made in Texas.

The Glocks are one of the most reliable auto pistols out there.  To me they sure look ugly as Im partial to 1911s.  

If you want just a pistol to keep in the truck I would probably go with a Judge.  

Joe


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## GrantH (Feb 11, 2012)

I ended up buying a Beretta PX4 .40 Compact. It's insanely comfortable in my hand, and based on reviews and what research I did, seems to be a quality gun. I will know a bit more tomorrow after the range.


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## lsweeney (Feb 11, 2012)

*Ruger .380*

I have been carrying my little .380 so long I forget that I have it on me. I think by the time that I empty the magazine it'll stop anything coming at me. And I'm almost 70yoa


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## ren-lathe (Feb 11, 2012)

Okay my 2¢ for what it is worth. Let me start by saying I am one of the five individuals at the gun club I belong to allowed to run concealed carry practice. We are the only ones in the state to hold one. That is not said to puff myself up but to add a little weight to what i am going to say.
1. Carry what you are comfortable with I would rather have to put 4 rounds from a .380 into a bad guy than wish I could put 1 round from a .45 i dont have because it is two heavy, too big etc.
2. That said most of the super compact like the LCP warthog etc. in the hands of a full sized adult are difficult to control. Remember you are responsible for the rounds that missed and hit someone else. I have seen this more times than not. In fact we have about sixty people a month taking part in these practice over the 5 years I have been doing this we have seen a lot of people stop carrying their ultra compact in favor of a some what larger gun.
3, wheel guns tend to be a little larger in cross section and can be larger to conceal in the case of the light frame .357's when fired tend to have a major recoil with a subsequently longer recovery time and the good possibility of over penetration..
4. What ever you by take it to the range and PRACTICE! you probably will not find a place that will let you draw from concealment but just shooting it will help. At home practice with an EMPTY gun drawing from concealment, think about starting it in the bedroom across the bed the first couple of times you drop it it falls on the bed instead of the floor. Do not do it in front of a window your neighbor might not under stand & you don't have to splain to the boys in blue.
 That said the gun I most often carry is a Sig 229 in .357 Sig some times I swap to the .40 s&w barrel SIG has no problem with this does not void the warranty as it would with some other company's of course you also have to change ammo too. Second choice is a CZ p01 in 9mm. I bought this originally as a class room gun when I teach CPL classes. Has had about 4000 rounds through it and has always functioned flawlessly. I liked it enough that it became one of my favorite carry guns it now has a big brother the p06 in .40 S&W someday if I quite buying wood I may pick one up.
Dale
NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
NRA Certified Instructor


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## ren-lathe (Feb 11, 2012)

OOPS! forgot 1 thing the reason I stress practicing drawing from concealment is that it takes a man with a knife 2.5 seconds to cover 21'. Unpracticed folks carrying a gun can take a lot longer than that to draw their gun.


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## rkenly (Feb 12, 2012)

I carry the Glock 26 (9MM),  I also have the small Rock Island Armory in .45ACP.  Also qualified my .38 wheel gun.


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## ghostrider (Feb 12, 2012)

Didn't read the thread, and don't need to.

There's only one person on this board (or any other) who can tell you which gun is best for you. 

You.

That said, "All roads lead to Glock". :biggrin::biggrin:


In all seriousness, the first statement is true.

Go to the following website, and read all of it (it isn't just for women). 
Cornered Cat

She knows her stuff, and will say things that a lot of men are to insecure to admit. 

 One word of advice. "Don't let anyone lead you to believe that "fit" is a matter of how the gun "points". It isn't. Fit is if you can properly reach the trigger, not how easily it points. As an example, think of all the service members who have had to learn the same weapon (be it the Beretta, or the 1911, or etc...).

Another point. Don't buy into the myth of "stopping power". Hand guns don't have it (unless it's a "Michigan Pistol" or something like it). Want to know what the difference is between seven rounds of .45 @230 grain, and 15 rounds of 9mm @ 124 grain? The 9mm has more holes (read more wound channels, and more dispersal of damage), and it has 250 grains more lead (not to mention the lack of the unnecessary reload). 

Another "conventional wisdom" is that, "The novice should start with a revolver." This is true only if it's true for you. Only you can decide which gun suites you best. Revolvers have their place, but it's like the old Virginia Slims advertisement, "You've come a long way, Baby!". J-Frame Smiths, and their competitors are NOT beginners guns, ESPECIALLY the Airweight versions. Their diminutive size, low weight (read "low recoil reduction") and heavy triggers make them challenging for even the experienced shooters. Even then, most of those experienced shooters won't want them in .357 mag. (Larger, heavier frame guns are fine in .357, but not the pocket guns.)  Back when I was shooting 300 rounds per week, I could notice the nuances of the differences between  a auto, and a "snubby" (Still don't understand why some counter jockey's recommend them as a "first" gun of all things.) Most people simply do not understand that, "It's a software problem, not a hardware problem." Learn how to shoot properly, and how to "run the gun you got". Gun sales have been soaring for the past several years despite a slumping economy. Most of those new shooters are not starting with revolvers, and they are not lacking for the experience (neither are all the service members from the 1911 to today's Beretta). Buy the gun that suites you, and your needs. If that's an auto, then sobeit. Buy the gun, a range membership, and at least 1000 rounds of ammo (that should get you through the first couple weeks. If your gun of choice is a 1911, then the starting allotment for ammo is 5000 rounds, Glocks are 300, but it's optional for them:biggrin. (remember, "software, not hardware). 

Now, go read cornered cat again.


To do List:

Before buying, shoot as many guns as you can, and handle the rest (this is of course after determining your needs, NOT which gun fits them. IOW, it doesn't mean, "I want stopping power, so the .45 beats the others.") Go to the gun forums and look up past threads where people ask the same question (you'll find you get the same answers everywhere, but you'll also learn more). Just remember that they all have their fan boys, and that means nothing to you. I've seen all to often how many shooters will go through several different types/guns before settling on a gun. One gun "won't fit", the other is "too heavy"...etc... Of course each previous selection was based on the quite sound advice and commentary of more knowledgeable persons who were absolutely correct with the caveat that, "The application of that wisdom extended to the point of their own nose." Sometimes it lead to them falling on it, sometimes not. 

The determination of needs should be based on many things, that you've yet to learn, and nobody can tell you. You may need the force of a large caliber pistol, only to find that you don't want to pay $3-$5/round (even reloading will be expensive). They may be fun to shoot, but how much trigger time will you log at those prices? "Stopping Power" won't mean a hill of beans in that scenario. In that situation, a large rock would be a much cheaper alternative for the paper weight that looks like a gun. Even more so if you have to drive 250 miles to buy the last box of ammo in production for your brand new, shiny toy. But don't it look purdy?

That reminds me. When determining needs, means must also be considered. Thanks to the plethora of new shooters, and trend of "shall issue" laws, there is a wide variety of hand guns available, at a variety of prices. Use your cash wisely. If your budget is $800, and you spend $700 on a semi-shiny Airweight .357 for a night stand security gun, then have fun driving that square peg into that round hole.  You could buy a full size Bersa, and have plenty left over for training ammo. Good luck shooting that 12 oz. .357 with minuscule range time. Better to go with the rock, and spend the cash on a present for the wife/husband/other. Remember, "software, ...hardware". 

Now that you've determined "needs", and "means", you can start researching which guns fit that criteria (see above references to night stand gun, and $4/round ammo). This is also means researching supplies, food, and accessories for your future firearm. I saw someone buy a neat little Turkish gun for a paltry price, only to complain that he couldn't find a decent holster for it. (There we are going over the software problem again). :biggrin: Learn these things before you buy. It's like woodworking, "measure twice, cut once". Lots of people have sold "used" guns at a loss that had less than a box of ammo through them (I'm still flabbergasted at the bloke who traded in a pistol he'd had for three years without running even a single round through it. I was of course happy to relieve him of the brass casings for reloading. Who was I to complain that they hadn't been emptied yet.)

Now that you've narrowed things down to your "options", you can start to find which guns fit you. (Now is a good time to go back and re-read cornered cat again as she has an excellent article on fit). Oh, and now is a good time to make sure you can actually "run" the gun. If you can't cycle the action of the auto to load it due to arthritis, then give it a pass and find that rock. It'll hurt less than getting shot with a gun you can't operate, and it won't cost as much unless you buy the designer rock (they fetch a premium don't you know). 

By now you should have narrowed the field enough to make a sound choice after shooting through them. This is a good time to go through all the "conventional wisdom and knowledge" that you gained from gun counters, and forums, and bloggs, and ...etc. Gather all _that_ info, and cross reference it with another group of people who are also founts of conventional wisdom. They are in the yellow pages under, "Flat Earth Society", and their still waiting to hear from Columbus. 


Or, as Boston T. Party would say, "Just get a Glock and be done with it.":tongue::biggrin:

BTW: I've not had to change my choice since making it. I spent much longer time researching that, than it took to write, and edit this post. And, I've never sold a gun at a loss due to a poor previous choice based on limited foresight. 


This also applies for guys who want to buy a gun for their wife/sister/mother/etc... Then go read cornered cat.


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## jasontg99 (Feb 12, 2012)

I carry a Glock 30.  It's a subcompact .45 and I love it.


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## splinter99 (Feb 12, 2012)

A lot of great hand guns mentioned here. The Ruger LCR is a fun little gun and will serve you well. I have the 357 and the 38. Its a good idea to have a 22 caliber very similar to what you plan to carry so you can get lots of practice. If you plan on concealed carry the little 380 pocket pistols are hard to beat, some of the larger handguns are uncomfortable to conceal and may require getting looser pants etc.


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## reiddog1 (Feb 12, 2012)

I totally agree with Dale, den_lathe.  I've been a military range master for the past 10 years.  Two pieces of advice are 1- there is no better pistol than one who has a trained and proficient person pulling the trigger.  I would be more afraid of a trained person with a rubber band gun than an untrained person with a hand cannon. 2- make sure it's comfortable and safe for you and your family.  My 2 cents - glock or Sig .40 cal.  Save the money on rounds, cause you need to shoot it often.  Remember, a well aimed shot from a .22 will kill u, so why do u feel u need a .45?  Hope this helps.

Dave


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## Smitty37 (Feb 12, 2012)

*Most don't...*

One thing to keep in mind is that most people who actually use a handgun in self defense never have to fire it at anyone.  So you probably don't need a cannon.

A second thing to remember is that you usually don't need to kill your attacker(s) if you do have to shoot - but you do want to hit them.  Just as important you don't want to hit someone else.

If you believe you need to "stop" someone - a .357 mag will do that.  I have 'stopped' a 185 pound white tail buck right where he stood at about 35 yards with a .357.  

Granted if you're in Grizzly or Polar Bear country .357 isn't likely to be as heavy as you might want - but most of us aren't wandering about in the same area as those bears.

As many folks have said, you need to punch a few rounds through a hand gun often to get good enough.  Point and shoot is very difficult and takes a LOT of practice - I never did get to where I would have tried it for anything more than scaring someone, I wouldn't ever have counted on hitting someone more than 10 feet away.  Draw and fire I would leave up to the police and to be frank I have my doubts that most of them are very proficient at it.


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## Displaced Canadian (Feb 12, 2012)

Smitty makes a good point about not hitting what you don't want to hit. Dave also makes a good point about the trained guy with a rubber band gun. My brother works with a guy who teaches self defense and has a class for handgun users. He had a person laugh at him because he uses a .22 mag when he teaches the class. He told the student to use his own hand cannon and shoot the target 25 feet away. The student fired 6 shots and missed every time the teacher shot once and put a hole in the center of the target then asked, which one of us is dead? 
 I don't know much about shooting in an urban environment. When you miss in the woods odds are you hit a tree. Wouldn't a larger slower bullet be better because it wouldn't fly as far? We had a person at a complex that I maintain who accidently discharged his .357 mag. The bullet went through 4 walls didn't hit a stud and stopped when it hit a hot water tank.


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## Smitty37 (Feb 12, 2012)

*Yep*



Displaced Canadian said:


> Smitty makes a good point about not hitting what you don't want to hit. Dave also makes a good point about the trained guy with a rubber band gun. My brother works with a guy who teaches self defense and has a class for handgun users. He had a person laugh at him because he uses a .22 mag when he teaches the class. He told the student to use his own hand cannon and shoot the target 25 feet away. The student fired 6 shots and missed every time the teacher shot once and put a hole in the center of the target then asked, which one of us is dead?
> I don't know much about shooting in an urban environment. When you miss in the woods odds are you hit a tree. Wouldn't a larger slower bullet be better because it wouldn't fly as far? We had a person at a complex that I maintain who accidently discharged his .357 mag. The bullet went through 4 walls didn't hit a stud and stopped when it hit a hot water tank.


 For that reason if I lived in an urban area and was carrying I'd probably opt for a .22 or .25 cal.  As a young man I had a Beretta .22 that I carried.  If I had to shoot in my room it probably would not have penetrated the wall if I missed.


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## ren-lathe (Feb 12, 2012)

The problem with a .22 is the rimfire priming system is very unreliable.  When they put the primer in it is dropped in one place the case is spun  to distribute the priming charge then crimped. The problem is that many  times the priming does not make it all the way around. If you shoot  regularly and spent much time around a range you will see a lot of .22  misfires. A lot of folks do not know if you put the cartridge back in a  quarter turn away so the firing pin strikes a different spot it will  fire. This is a problem if you are going to use it for defense ammo. If  you look at the bad guy and say stop I have to clear this round he is  not going to cooperate. As some one said you probably will not have to  shoot, however do not depend on that if you do not think you can use it  do not carry it. You will lose.


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## reiddog1 (Feb 12, 2012)

There is a fine line between stopping power and over penetration.  Both can be adjusted by the type  of ammo you buy.  I wouldn't go smaller than .40 cal though.  Just my 2 cents.


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## moke (Feb 13, 2012)

What a great thread...everybody has made great points...none of them I disagree with.  GrantH sure got his monies worth here!!!


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## ragz (Feb 13, 2012)

If for home defense a Taurus Judge will allow for shot patterning since it fires both .410 in a wide vareity of buck and .45 through the same cylinder


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## BSea (Feb 13, 2012)

Many people have given you good points as far as practice, and different thinking behind carry guns.  All that is true.  Then comes to what you want.  If you don't like shooting it, you won't practice, and probably won't carry it.  So get something you like to shoot.  Hopefully, you have friends, and/or a range that will let you rent guns to try.

My 1st pistol was a sig 229 in 9mm.  I read forums, reviews, and went to the range & shot several different models before I decided on this gun.  Part of my reasoning was that I wanted something my wife would shoot too if she ever had too.  So the 9mm was for less recoil, and the 229 has no safety, so you just have to pull the trigger.  

After a year or so, and shootiing a buddy's 1911 kimber, I got the fevor for a new gun.  I almost bought a Kimber, but as luck would have it, that same buddy bought a Dan Wesson CBOB 1911 for his son.  I loved the way it felt in my hand.  So I put one on order.  I have since bought another Dan wesson, and if I could justify it, I'd get the CCO.  But 2 is enough.  And if I could have only 1 gun, it would be my Dan Wesson 1911 CBOB.


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## Hess (Feb 13, 2012)

Boy this one took of fast.   I'm very glad to see so many here that believe in The Right to Carry!!

Living here in TX where There are more guns in the peoples control then at FT Hood  is great!

It all has been said by others s one fact to remember is most any gun can out shoot its user.  $$ does not mean much it you have not takin the weapon out of the holster and got to know it.

You would be surprised at how many there are that do this.
  Kinda like the guy who spend 45000 for a Bike to ride in the toy runs once a year

Main thing is you practice practice and more Understand that most guns are not even considered broken in until 500 rds or more.  So buy something you can afford to shoot  other wise you will not fire it

Also understand that when you do EVER have to fire it for defense your life will change forever!  

Always understand that when it the time of Tension that you do use the it you will not even know you fired a full mag rather than 2 shoots so the need to practice more than anything.

Cant believe how many LEOs never draw there gun but once a year to qualify 

Buying the gun is just the beginning.  get to know it


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## wolftat (Feb 13, 2012)

I personally like the Glock 18c but they are hard to come by(and not legal for most to own). For an everyday easy to conceal and for great knockdown power, it is hard to beat something like the Ruger SP101 .357, this 5 shot revolver is called hammerless but is actually just a spurless revolver and without the spur it can be easily concealed and drawn without it catching on your clothes. The 1 5/8" barrel makes it good for a belly gun but not great long distances which isn't needed for self defense anyways.


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## tokyotank (Feb 14, 2012)

Kimber Ultra Carry in 45 acp. Like they say with cars " Theres no replacement for displacement" A little more horsepower never hurts anyone, unless you are on the receiving end I guess.


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## firewhatfire (Feb 14, 2012)

Why waste time with a b.b. gun.  Para Ordnance 45 in OD Green is what I carry.  

Phil


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## Scott.tudhope (Feb 14, 2012)

Keep in mind also that you are responsible for where your bullet goes, should you ever need to use it. I personally carry a tarus pt 38. It's a small frame 380. It will stop some one without going through several walls or other people. I've also been known to carry a 22. I would challenge anyone who says that a 22 isn't strong enough to stand in front of mine whole I pull the trigger. A properly placed round will stop anyone. 

If you decide to carry a larger caliber then I would recommend fragmenting rounds.


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