# Pre-turned blanks



## Chatham PenWorks (Apr 6, 2012)

Last night I saw some glass and fiber blanks from Timberbits that were completely finished. You buy the blanks and components, put them together, and you're done. Seems to me that this is a step in the wrong direction for the hobby. 

If you have thoughts on this, as a seller of pens, please star a thread in the Marketing Forum. Buy and press pens may affect our businesses as well, but I think that's a seperate conversation that belongs elsewhere.


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## Finatic (Apr 6, 2012)

You don't have to buy them. He's a seller doing what seller's do.


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## Smitty37 (Apr 6, 2012)

I can see no impact for the hobbiest - you have already been able to do something awfully close to that with some of the poly clay  and other blanks available with the tubes already installed...a little turning and polishing and assemble.                                     

It's interesting to me that there is a current thread running that mentions a trend toward kitless creations.


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## Chatham PenWorks (Apr 6, 2012)

Finatic said:


> You don't have to buy them. He's a seller doing what seller's do.


 
Can we not have a civil discussion, and not turn this into a ****ing match? In no way do I fault Timberbits for "doing what sellers do". If you can't contribute to the conversation, then just move on.


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## Russianwolf (Apr 6, 2012)

yes there are others that are buy and assemble (football Polyclay blanks and the Damascus blanks that are available that most simply don't have the equipment to turn/etch correctly) but this is the first time I've seen a ready to assemble blank that isn't really needed. Meaning all of us have the ability to turn and polish these with regular tools.


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## Chatham PenWorks (Apr 6, 2012)

Smitty37 said:


> I can see no impact for the hobbiest - you have already been able to do something awfully close to that with some of the poly clay and other blanks available with the tubes already installed...a little turning and polishing and assemble.
> 
> It's interesting to me that there is a current thread running that mentions a trend toward kitless creations.


 

  I see what you're saying, and thought the same when those blanks came out. They were hand made though, and you did have to do some work to finish them. With these new ones, the hardest thing to do may be to get the &^%* baggies open. 

  I honestly see these kits (don't think component sets fits) selling like crazy. I also see the completed blanks coming out in many more. I just don't think I would have started turning pens, if I'd seen completely finished kits available, and for so cheap. Wondering if others might feel the same.


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## Haynie (Apr 6, 2012)

Chatham PenWorks said:


> Finatic said:
> 
> 
> > You don't have to buy them. He's a seller doing what seller's do.
> ...



I did not see his comment as a ****ing match.  Yours on the other hand...

How is this bad for the "hobby"?  You do a hobby because you enjoy it.  I shoot black and white film in large format cameras as a hobby.  I suppose I could get very upset about digital cameras and computers taking the human element and thought out of photography.


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## Justturnin (Apr 6, 2012)

I would not buy one but if I got an order for a lot of CF blanks they may see some of my money....

Another benefit could be someone that may not yet posses the skill set to turn one of these but someone has requested one from them.  I have seen folks post on here looking for someone to make a pen from a certain material that they are not comfortable doing themselves and/or don't have time or money for trial and error.

Everything has its place to some extent.


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## Joe S. (Apr 6, 2012)

I guess it depends if you make pens to sell, or if you make pens for fun and sell them. If you just want to sell as many as you can, you could get a lathe duplicater with a pen pattern. But I see your point, pre-finished blanks look really boring.


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## arioux (Apr 6, 2012)

There are worst thing coming out.  Rizheng have start to sell finished acrylics Sierra style pen for less than $3.  They are sold out right now but if the demand is there they will come back.  They have slimline style in rosewood for less than $2.  Anyone that knows how the chinese work, can figure out that in 6 mounts, these pen are going to end up in dollars store.  They are the same component and blanks that they sell us, so try to make a custommer understand that they are not the same.  You can't because they are.  You can even buy 10 finished slimline barrel for $4.  Why bother buy and turn blanks for slimline.  Just refinish them your way and a $20. pen is ready. And i don't think they are going to stop with these. There are change coming in, will just have to adapt.


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## Smitty37 (Apr 6, 2012)

Chatham PenWorks said:


> Smitty37 said:
> 
> 
> > I can see no impact for the hobbiest - you have already been able to do something awfully close to that with some of the poly clay and other blanks available with the tubes already installed...a little turning and polishing and assemble.
> ...


 That's always the hardest thing to do....I've taken to like the cheapies that you can just tear.


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## nativewooder (Apr 6, 2012)

In our society of "instant gratification", it was only a matter of time before these barrels appeared.  It doesn't affect me, the hobbyist, but it may affect those of you who appear to be businessmen.  Who will be the first to have a Made in the USA "kitless" baggy?!  There can be an endless variety of kits out there, limited only by your imagination.:wink:


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## ed4copies (Apr 6, 2012)

arioux said:


> There are worst thing coming out.  Rizheng have start to sell finished acrylics Sierra style pen for less than $3.  They are sold out right now but if the demand is there they will come back.  They have slimline style in rosewood for less than $2.  Anyone that knows how the chinese work, can figure out that in 6 mounts, these pen are going to end up in dollars store.  They are the same component and blanks that they sell us, so try to make a customer understand that they are not the same.  You can't because they are.  You can even buy 10 finished slimline barrel for $4.  Why bother buy and turn blanks for slimline.  Just refinish them your way and a $20. pen is ready. And i don't think they are going to stop with these. There are change coming in, will just have to adapt.



When your supplier becomes your competition, it's time to re-evaluate your desire to support the supplier.

By making a profit on his "kit" sales to you, he can afford to sell his "retail" line at cost, just to keep his volume up.  (Which also drives the perceived value of YOUR finished products DOWN).


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## Smitty37 (Apr 6, 2012)

You can buy completed wood pens for about the price of a kit...it is only a matter of time until they're in Wal-mart.  Will it have an impact on the hobby - no more than the availability of wood salad bowls (commercially available for at least 50 years) has affected turning bowls.  

People still hand make furniture of all kinds.....and I still make bird houses even though I can buy finished ones cheaper than I can build them.


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## PenPal (Apr 6, 2012)

Morning here,

When did my corner store dissapear well a long time ago. Where do I shop now? Well over here the large no change that to enormous firms have almost completely consumed the market.

We must be responsible for the trends seeking ever lower prices and in regard to pen making ever higher prices for our product. Supply and demand.

Petrol is owned and distributed mostly owned by Woolworths and Coles who determine the market price then the govt puts incredible taxes in that final figure.

In every instance on the IAP re purchasing the offer of a discount voucher for lathes, consumables is circulated like wildfire, extra blanks etc added in to sweeten deals, we all love a bargain.

Trends are fostered by us, its not others that do this it is us.

A forced fact is we can shop how when, where we like, worship in multitudenal situations.
Consider the effect of 24 hr shopping, sport on Sundays. The list is endless in all our countries discount Airlines abound, computers dominate our existence.

How we market is our choice, where we buy is our choice.

Fully turned pens are made by the millions now as have been forever remember the effect of the cheap biro.

My conclusion is watch out for others and do the best you can every day one of us will majority build, fix, make something others do for a living that has a profound effect on the economy especially tradesman with triumph herald how we saved money.

Have success in your elections, wars within wars, I try to share first and foremost with that old world courtesy we crave. now progress, taxes stay in spite of us.

Happy Easter Season to everyone who celebrates it for everyone who doesnt enjoy your celebrations peace to you.

The glass is always half full for me overflowing whenever I can assist.

Pens away, pens to keep, doing the task for pleasure or profit is your choice, enjoy if you can.

Kind regards 2012 to all IAP forum members may you prosper.

Peter.


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## chriselle (Apr 7, 2012)

Hey Peter...always a joy to read your posts...:good:

Me...I buy them...I sell them......I sleep at night.  

I spend many months on an urushi pen.  Sometimes it's just nice to assemble a pen in ten minutes.  Hell, Mont Blanc does it. 


Oh...and these carbon fiber Sedonas are my hottest impulse seller.


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## tim self (Apr 7, 2012)

IMO, I do not believe it harms the hobbiest at all.  As for the production turner who depends on quantity to make a living, it's a wonderful alternative.  Time is money.  And there are a few hard core producers who will insist on competely doing it by hand themself.


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## azamiryou (Apr 7, 2012)

Call it "buying parts where the work's already been done for you" and it seems like "cheating".

Call it "subcontracting part of the process" and it seems totally legit.

In any kind of manufacturing, it's totally fair for the manufacturer to figure out whether it's more cost-effective to make a part (or sub-assembly), have it custom-made, or buy it off-the-shelf.

Some of us make our own clips. Some of us design clips, and contract someone else to manufacture them. Most of us simply buy ready-made clips.

For plastic blanks, some people cast them, some have blanks made to their specifications, most buy ready-made blanks.

Why would the turning process be any different?


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## ed4copies (Apr 7, 2012)

tim self said:


> IMO, I do not believe it harms the hobbiest at all.  As for the production turner who depends on quantity to make a living, it's a wonderful alternative.  Time is money.  And there are a few hard core producers who will insist on competely doing it by hand themself.




I am not trying to debate this, I agree with your sentiment.

My problem would be the applications to the shows we did all said, "Hand made by the artist, who must be in the booth at the show".   These applications also forbade "kits" that the "crafter" has just assembled.

IMNHO!!!!   Assembly is all we are doing, if we buy the blank preturned and the components in a small bag.  So, how do we qualify for the show????

I have never considered myself an "artist", but I do possess some "craftsmanship" which exhibits itself in my ability to turn and polish materials that make a good looking pen.   If I delegate that to someone else, the ONLY skill I take to the show is my ability to sell.

So, I am not an "artist" or a "craftsman".  Instead I am a "salesman" who lied to get accepted----NOT a good start!!!

FWIW,
Ed


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## Padre (Apr 7, 2012)

FWIW:
I am what would be considered a 'duffer.'  I do make my own alumilite and PR blanks.  I make my own leather blanks, snakeskin blanks, and now (Thanks Dave!) my own carbon fiber blanks.  I have one of Curtis' stablizing chambers and cactus juice, and I stabilize my own blanks.  On almost every pen I sell I turn it myself.  BUT BUT BUT!

--I cannot make a poly-clay cane like Toni, so I buy them.  I still turn them a little and polish them, but basically they are 'ready made' for the pen kit I choose.
--I tried to tie my own feathers, and what a disaster.  All thumbs.  Johnny-U's blanks and Marla's feathers far outdo anything I could make.  So I buy those blanks.
--I cannot make Seamus' quarter blanks.  Wouldn't even try.
--I have tried and failed miserably at making camouflage blanks, so I buy them.
.........and on and on.

Where do we draw the line from saying our pens are 'hand crafted' or 'hand-made'

IMHO, assembling a kit pen totally ready to go is like trying to sell a paint by numbers painting as one of your own original paintings.


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## Smitty37 (Apr 7, 2012)

Padre said:


> FWIW:
> I am what would be considered a 'duffer.' I do make my own alumilite and PR blanks. I make my own leather blanks, snakeskin blanks, and now (Thanks Dave!) my own carbon fiber blanks. I have one of Curtis' stablizing chambers and cactus juice, and I stabilize my own blanks. On almost every pen I sell I turn it myself. BUT BUT BUT!
> 
> --I cannot make a poly-clay cane like Toni, so I buy them. I still turn them a little and polish them, but basically they are 'ready made' for the pen kit I choose.
> ...


But what if you mixed your own paint?


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## Smitty37 (Apr 7, 2012)

*Assembly....*

If we want to be called "artist" or "craftsman" we can't simply assemble kits.  We have to add something.


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## Chatham PenWorks (Apr 7, 2012)

I'm really surprised that it seems acceptable to so many to buy these for resale.


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## Haynie (Apr 7, 2012)

You started this with the word hobby.  As for resale that might be a different story.  But here too it is up to the seller and their personal ethics.


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## Xander (Apr 7, 2012)

I became interested in pen MAKING because I want to MAKE pens. You can train an elephant to assemble 'kits' (KIT being a COMPLETE set of parts that just needs to be assembled). What I use is a 'component set' ... and yes I used the word component before I discovered it's use here on IAP. I add my skills to choose a blank that goes with the other components, cut, drill, reverse paint, glue, square, turn, sand, finish.
THEN I assemble the parts I MADE with the other components.

If people are, or will, buy pre finished 'blanks' with 'kits' and pass them off as thier own work as a hand crafted pen .... well that is just wrong.


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## Chatham PenWorks (Apr 7, 2012)

Haynie said:


> You started this with the word hobby.  As for resale that might be a different story.  But here too it is up to the seller and their personal ethics.



I did, but much of the conversation migrated the other way, just the same. For those that would buy these for resell, what do you sell? I mean, do you simply sell pens, or do you sell hand made pens? Would you sell these as hand made?


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## Chatham PenWorks (Apr 7, 2012)

If people are said:
			
		

> :frown:


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## Smitty37 (Apr 7, 2012)

I'm not sure what issue there is here.    Are we getting a little wrapped around the axle over nothing?


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## azamiryou (Apr 8, 2012)

Smitty37 said:


> I'm not sure what issue there is here.    Are we getting a little wrapped around the axle over nothing?



I feel like there's not really a disagreement here, rather we're talking about two different things: how you make a pen (anything is fine) and what you say about how you made it (don't lie or misrepresent your work).


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## rich gubbin (Apr 8, 2012)

I quite like the carbon fibre pre turned blanks, and the price is right too. Over in the UK they,re 3 times the price and they need turning down, however Timberbits ones are all finished. To me this means i can satisfy the occasional customer that wants carbon fibre and have more time to work on more time consuming pens.


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## PenMan1 (Apr 8, 2012)

What we are experiencing is Capatalism at its finest. Obviously, there is SOME demand for these products. If not, they would not exist.

The BEAUTY of the free market system is that if you, like I, don't care for these blanks, there is no mandate that says we MUST buy them. IMHO, this system far surpasses a system where some arbitrary body says what you can and can't buy.

One easy way to judge the success of these is to watch the availabiliy and price of such blanks. If the price goes up and the selection gets larger, there is good demand. If the price drops and the selection becomes limited, it was a marketing "mistake".


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## OKLAHOMAN (Apr 8, 2012)

While I wouldn't use them there are here from the responses some who would, the OP wanted to know if it was a step back for the hobby not if it is right or wrong to sell them. If strictly using them for non selling then sure it's a step backward but look at it from a hobbyist point of view that needs 20 Christmas gifts, and sees these as a way to get them done quickly and still give a nice gift. Will he/she have the satisfaction of presenting a "Hand Made" gift...No. I've always said one of the reasons I use the term "Component" and not "kit" is to separate this hobby from the paint by numbers category and pre turned to size is certainly a paint by numbers direction. 
Now on the other hand how many of you can turn Damascus Steel, etch it and drill it so you still have a press fit, or make a poly clay blank like Toni's that all is needed is light sanding and a few coats of CA at best, do we not consider these "PREMADE" ? There are two sides and answers to the OP's question, yes it's a step backward for some and no there might be a good reason for some to use it and still grow in their chosen hobby.

Now have I muddy upped the waters enough :biggrin:


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## HwlngMdMurdoch (Mar 23, 2021)

I'm 9 years "late" coming into this conversation(i'm a newbie lol"), but here's my thoughts on this matter, and probably irrelevant now that it's all these years later.

I was just looking at the PSI catalog I got in the mail today and discovered the Aquapearl Acrylic blanks. Pre-drilled (7mm), and pre-rounded. 
I don't see this hurting the hobby at all. Not much has changed in the last 9 years since this was originally brought up. You can't buy them in Walmart(as mentioned in the thread). 
As a newbie just getting started in pen making, I kinda see these as a jump start to the process. You'll still have to turn them a bit, and you'll have to still drill if using a bigger tube. Sure, they cut out a few steps, like starting from a square block, and using 7mm kits, but still, there's work you have to put in them (albeit not as much time). In a way, I see this as something that will pique interest in the hobby and get a baseline for possibly selling. In other words, make a few slimlines and some specialty (like the steampunk for example) to gauge interest. Obviously, they are only in acrylic (to my knowledge), so the wood ones you'll still need to drill, turn, etc. The acrylic  just helps speed up sales(if you decide to sell)
Personally, i'm going to try a few of them, get my feet wet (turning from a square is still tricky for me) and possibly sell for just slightly more than what I spend on supplies. Basically just enough to make a few extra bucks to put right back into the hobby and upgrade equipment (I'm starting off with the Penpal, so I know i'll buy a bigger lathe down the line). 

In the end, I'll make pens 100% from scratch. This will just be a jumping point for me, nothing more, nothing less)


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