# Scroll saw blade question



## skiprat (May 29, 2010)

I've had a scroll saw for about a year but never really had much success with 'unbranded' blades. In fact the miserable result kind of put me off using it at all. :frown:
I believe that either Flying Dutchman or Olsen blades are the best. I'm leaning towards Olsen's ground tooth blades because there seems to be far more info and blade selection guidance and I can also get them in the UK.

For Jeff and the rest of the scrollers out there, what is your preferance?
Please tell me WHY you have that preferance. 

My next snag has always been tensioning the blade. I can't find any info on just how tight it should be set. Is there any rule of thumb?

Thanks in advance:biggrin:


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## witz1976 (May 29, 2010)

I use olsen, seem to work fine for what I use it for.  As for tension, I pluck it like a string, when I hear a "ping" instead of a plunk I know I am tight.  However I am looking forward to Jeff's response to this post.


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## philb (May 29, 2010)

Have you tried Hegner?


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## arkie (May 29, 2010)

I use Flying Dutchman for everything.  They're sharper and last better than nay Olson I tired, including PGT.  Flying Dutchman is the trade name of the fellow that sells them here in the states.  They are german blades, possibly available elsewhere under a different brand name.


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## skiprat (May 29, 2010)

philbaldwin said:


> Have you tried Hegner?


 
Hiya Phil. I did come across Hegner but I was sort of put off by the seemingly low price compared to the other two. I found Hegners about £16 / 144 blades which is what I paid for the no-name stuff, so I just assumed they'd be a similar quality.  It would be nice to be wrong on that assumtion


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## philb (May 29, 2010)

I've never had a problem with them, you can get them in pack of 3 dozen for a tester! What sort of tooth design/ thickness are you looking for?


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## skiprat (May 29, 2010)

witz1976 said:


> I use olsen, seem to work fine for what I use it for. As for tension, I pluck it like a string, when I hear a "ping" instead of a plunk I know I am tight. However I am looking forward to Jeff's response to this post.


 
Good discription, thanks. I remember when I bought my machine. They had one set up and the blade did 'ping' like a tuning fork. I tried to tighten mine that tight and it kept pulling out of the clamp. I made a new clamp cos I eventually stripped the screw thread. Just been too wary to have another go with junky blades.



arkie said:


> I use Flying Dutchman for everything. They're sharper and last better than nay Olson I tired, including PGT. Flying Dutchman is the trade name of the fellow that sells them here in the states. They are german blades, possibly available elsewhere under a different brand name.


 
I guess you mean 'Mike'? I get the feeling ( but could be wrong ) that these are the same as Wegner because the wording on both sites is the same. Dunno for sure though. ( I didn't know that till I googled Hegner, so maybe I've just answered my own question )


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## skiprat (May 29, 2010)

philbaldwin said:


> What sort of tooth design/ thickness are you looking for?


 
:redface: I'm afraid I'm far too much a novice to know for sure yet, which is why I liked the Olsen site info.


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## Pepsi (May 29, 2010)

I used what I thought was Hegner blades to start only to find out later they were Mike's, Flying Dutchman blades. I've been using them for going on 16 yrs. now with no 
complaints. But hey to each his own. That's my preference. I've found that Mike overall has the better prices for his blades, great service too.  Just my opinion.

                                                                                             Al


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## Pepsi (May 29, 2010)

Steve,
One more thing I've always used his blades for intricate work so like has been said depends on what you going to be cutting out.

                                                                                      Al


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## Seer (May 29, 2010)

This is where I get my Flying Dutchman Blades.  He has the best I have ever used and a real pleasure to do business with.  Send him an email with thwat you want to do and he can recommend a good blade.  The Ultra Reverse are the best for me though and his prices are very good.
http://www.mikesworkshop.com/


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## PaulDoug (May 29, 2010)

Ha!  just read Mike's how to select a blade, wow!  I'm confused.  When I order next it's the varity  pack of the most popular for me!


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## jttheclockman (May 29, 2010)

People that have been scrolling for many years such as myself have tried many blades over the years and the FD blades are some of the finest on the market. There is a blade for everyone. But unless you do alot of scrolling in different materials and different thicknesses it is not necessary to order so many. Skip, you do not mention what it is you want to scroll. If you contact Mike at www.mikesworkshop.com he can tell you which blade is best for your application. He may also suggest a dealer nearer to you because he is not the only dealer. Great guy to deal with and he will even send some samples. 

Like I said thickness of material is inportant as well as the pattern being scrolled. I use #5 double tooth scroll reverse for just about everything. I cut 3/4" material with them. The tighter and smaller detail of a pattern the smaller the blade is needed. 

Just a little tip on the tension, most people are taught to pluck the blade and when it sounds like a "C" note that is tight enough. Well how many people know what aC note sounds like. Tighten enough so that if you push on the blade it does not deflect more than about 1/8" With practice you will be able to tell right away. 

One more tip and that deals with blade slippage. All blades come from the manufactorer with a thin oil residue on them and there are a couple ways to rid this. One is to wipe the ends down with acetone and the second which is more popular and that is to lightly sand the ends on all 4 sides (2top and 2bottom) Just enough for the clamps. It is also a good idea to lightly sand the setscrews in the clamps abit also. I do this by folding a piece of sandpaper and passing it through the clamp.

Now there are other pointers and these are too numerous to mention when scrolling and setting up a saw but as you attempt to use it you may want to stop back for more tips. Happy scrolling.


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## truckfixr (May 29, 2010)

Scrollsawworkshop.com has a free software download to help with proper blade tensioning. He offers free plans on a daily basis.

http://scrollsawworkshop.blogspot.com/2010_04_28_archive.html

The software can be found on the left side of the page.


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## clayton717 (May 31, 2010)

I have tried several brands of blades, but only keep 2 on hand. those are flying dutchman and olsen. I use the flying dutchman for almost everything, they cut great and stay sharper longer, I keep olsens on hand for guest cutters (friend that come over and want to try scrolling)
I have several sizes but the one I use the most is a #5R. I use this blade alot even cutting all the hardwood for my intarsia. I agree with contacting Mike, he will point you in the right direction.


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## Seer (May 31, 2010)

For what I do I use the UR #3 & #5 blades good clean cuts and they stay sharp longer than others.


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## workinforwood (May 31, 2010)

I get my blades from Mikesworkshop.  Flying Dutchman blades..the teeth seem to last longer.  I normally only use #5, #7, #9 polar blades <those are plain skip tooth blades>. I tighten and crank the crap out of my tensioner.  Pushing with your finger on the teeth of the blade, you should not be able to push the blade backward more than 1/8 of an inch..we are talking about reasonable finger pressure..not the force of godzilla of course. I buy my blades by the gross.  I unwrap them on the counter then stick the blades over the edge and fan them out.  With a rag and some mineral spirits, I clean the oil off the blades, top and bottom, then spin them around and do the other side.  The oil on the blades gets on the blade holders causing grip problems.  I am sure mike will ship to the UK and he will charge you what it costs him to do so, not some exorbinant amount more.

If you are using a screw set, well that sucks.  You get less grip because you have less surface contact on the blade, and also a screw puts a stress spot on the metal causing fatigue and that leads to blade breakage.  I rarely ever break a blade, and when I do it is because I used the blade 10 times longer than I should have, or I was hacking on some metal with it! :biggrin:

I don't know what machine you have.  there is a good chance Frank has upgrade parts.  I had him make custom parts for my machine and they are way better than the factory parts.  The RBI machines do not have quick set holders..or at least not the G4 model I have.  They had the crappy screw set.  I sent him my old parts and he made new ones that fit right and now he stocks them for others.  He has a variety of modified quick set holders for different machines.  They are faster to change blades and they hold the blade way better without stressing the blade.  I don't know how I ever managed without those quick set clamps.

So..check out mikesworkshop and Pozgai designs

http://mikesworkshop.com/

http://www.pozsgaidesigns.com/


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## workinforwood (May 31, 2010)

If you want to know how to square up  your saw..well that is super simple!  Just take one of your new blades with nice tight tension and plunge into a 3/4" thick piece of wood..just an 1/16" deep cut is good enough.  Then flip the board upside down and make a second cut about 1/4 to either side of the first cut.  Now you simply measure between the top and the bottom of each cut.  The distances should be the same if the blade is cutting at 90 degrees as that would be parrallel.  A skip tooth blade is offset, and on top of that there is personal technique/habbit as to how you handle things.  This also reflects on the squareness of a blade and that is why a mechanical square does not really work so well.  Technically, my saw is on a 1.3 degree tilt to the left and for me that delivers a perfect square cut every time. Because I am right handed, that could make me to apply a slight pressure to the left as I push straight causing that slight need for a tilt in the table too...hard to truly know why it is that way.


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## yost69 (May 31, 2010)

I guess im gonna go with everyone else. I have only been scrolling a couple years but I use mostly FD blades from mike. I have used the Olsen PGT and was very pleased with those also.  The reason I use them is because everyone said they were good blades. 

What ever you decide anything is better than the Vermont American blades that the box stores sell. 

Ben


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## skiprat (May 31, 2010)

Jeff !!!!! I'm gonna sue you!!!!!  I just tried your trick about pressing against the edge of the blade!!!! Blood EVERYWHERE!!!!  Why didn't you tell me to have the machine off?????  :tongue:

Thanks for all the replies, I'm sure that I'm not the only one that found them very useful. Hegner ( who supply Mike - I believe) have been taken over by Technology Supplies in the UK and are only an hour or so from me so I'll pick up some of their blades the next time I pass. I'll also order some Olsen blades. 

Jeff, I never knew about cleaning the oil off first. I'm sure that's why I struggle to grip them in the clamps. Great tip, thanks:wink:


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## workinforwood (May 31, 2010)

It's good to get some blood on the machine Steve, that shows it's been used!  Although it would be challenging to cut off a finger with a scrollsaw since you'd have to hold it there for a while, it can still cause some nasty cuts.  I think Hegner saws also have a cooling attachment...optional of course.  I have one from my RBI, although I never have used it.  You can use it for cutting metal or glass.  Yes, you can scroll glass, they have diamond blades available.

One of the first things I would do with a new machine is build a false top with zero clearance.  Especially useful for cutting tiny things for pens.  Any old flat piece of plywood will work perfect.


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## arkie (May 31, 2010)

Mike uses and I believe also sells Hegner scrollsaws.  His blades may well be the same source as Hegner.


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## jttheclockman (May 31, 2010)

Just one note to follow up on Jeff's post, if your saw has setscrews and probably does, they are every as bit as good as quick release clamps in spite of what Jeff says. But a couple things come into play. The top and bottom fixed setscrew should be protruding aproximitely the same amount and what I like to do is have it so that it just clears the side of clamp as it protrudes. What this does when applying pressure with the thumbscrew is  apply even pressure so that the blade sits against the side of the clamp as well as the screw. Now if your arms and the clamps are parallel then the blade should track straight up and down. If it does not then you can make minor adjustments by screwing the setscrew in further on either the top or bottom whichever way will correct the cut. 

Like I said before not sure what you are cutting and how involved you want to get into scrolling because there are other tricks of the trade that maybe of use. By the way they sell jewlers blades for cutting metals that work well. I cut alot of brass but 1/8" thick is about all I have tried. 

Good luck and happy scrolling.


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## Woodlvr (Jun 1, 2010)

Thanks for all of the tips guys. I did not know about the oil on the blades either. My Olson blades that I purchased before I met Mike do not last as long, probably why they break on me. I looked for the blade holder modification for my Dewalt 20" scroll saw and Frank has nothing listed for Dewalt saws, so I emailed him to see if they are just not listed. Does everyone file the back sides of the blade when installing a new blade?


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## Woodlvr (Jun 1, 2010)

Jeff,   I made a couple of zero clearance false tops for my Dewalt out of the white hardboard that HD sells for showers, it is smooth and helps me see my work a little better.


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## jttheclockman (Jun 1, 2010)

Woodlvr said:


> Thanks for all of the tips guys. I did not know about the oil on the blades either. My Olson blades that I purchased before I met Mike do not last as long, probably why they break on me. I looked for the blade holder modification for my Dewalt 20" scroll saw and Frank has nothing listed for Dewalt saws, so I emailed him to see if they are just not listed. Does everyone file the back sides of the blade when installing a new blade?


 


I normally do not file the backside unless I know there are alot of tight turns in a material I know will leave burn marks. Not something that is really needed after you get the feel of pushing and spinning the wood.


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## jttheclockman (Jun 1, 2010)

*Other tips!!!*

I thought it might be helpful to some who want to give scrolling a try even if it is just to do some pen work and thought I would place this link in here from another forum. Now don't pay any attention to the first couple postings because that is a long story and an old one that is beat to death. 

The idea of my intention here is to throw out some helpful tips for an artform in itself and to type them all would take alot of work. So if it is acceptable here is the link and don't read any more into it than some helpful tips.  Hope this is of some help to someone out there. 

http://www.woodworkingcrafts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1565


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## workinforwood (Jun 2, 2010)

Woodlvr said:


> Thanks for all of the tips guys. I did not know about the oil on the blades either. My Olson blades that I purchased before I met Mike do not last as long, probably why they break on me. I looked for the blade holder modification for my Dewalt 20" scroll saw and Frank has nothing listed for Dewalt saws, so I emailed him to see if they are just not listed. Does everyone file the back sides of the blade when installing a new blade?



Doesn't the DW20 already come with a quick blade holder as a standard option?  All the ones I see in the stores already have them, and if that is the case, then that would be why Frank doesn't make them for those saws.  I don't own a Dewalt and don't study all the saws on the market, so I am not completely familiar with them all and what features they provide.


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## jaywood1207 (Jun 2, 2010)

workinforwood said:


> Doesn't the DW20 already come with a quick blade holder as a standard option?  All the ones I see in the stores already have them, and if that is the case, then that would be why Frank doesn't make them for those saws.  I don't own a Dewalt and don't study all the saws on the market, so I am not completely familiar with them all and what features they provide.



My Dewalt has the thumb screws and I just checked the Dewalt site and they have the thumb screws on the new ones.  I was also wondering why Frank didn't have anything for the Dewalt because this is my only complaint about the Dewalt saw and it is one of the more popular saws.  I have never seen a quick blade holder for the Dewalt.  Do you have a picture or link Jeff as I would be interested in seeing it in hopes of maybe duplicating something like it.


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## workinforwood (Jun 3, 2010)

sure, here's a pic.  I have this on the top and the bottom.  It's like a set of brake shoe's and you just pull that lever on the left towards the front and it closes the shoes and locks in place, then you just push the lever back to open the holder again.  There is a tiny adjustment knob on the side of it to adjust it for larger or smaller blade sizes..so you have to adjust it according to how thick you blade is, but once that is done you only have to pull back the lever every time until you change for a different size of blade.  The yellow lever up top is completely different from the holder..that is a quick tensioner.

is your 20" saw a DW788?


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## jaywood1207 (Jun 3, 2010)

Thanks Jeff.


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## DurocShark (Jun 6, 2010)

This has been a great thread for me. I have a decent (not great) Delta scroll saw but I hate using it. Same problem as Skippy... Blades pop out of the clamps. Didn't know about the oil on the blades (should have thought of it though).


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