# Custom order vent...



## Carl Fisher (Oct 28, 2012)

So the last show a customer ordered a silver maple new series fountain pen based off another silver maple pen they saw on the table.  I told them no problem, I have  full box of wood that came from the exact same tree at home.  

So I get home, order the kit, cut a nice piece taking pictures along the way and get it all turned and assembled.  It was on it's way to the engraver tomorrow and I shot the customer over the finished pen pictures.

The response I get is that it is not the pen they ordered and that the wood is too dark and looks too masculine.  I politely explained to her that it was the same wood from the same tree and that I picked a piece that had some nice figuring to it as that was what was expressed to me that she wanted.  

So now I'm sitting here with a custom ordered pen that is in a style that can not be disassembled cleanly.  The lower band on the cap is pressed on the tube with no way to punch it free without damaging the band and tube.  And now I'm once again having to order a single pen kit and pay shipping on a single pen kit since I don't particularly want to stock extras of this kit as it's not a big seller.  And it pushes the customers delivery back a week which she is not happy about.


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## Dulos (Oct 28, 2012)

It sounds like a bad case of buyer's remorse.


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## Kretzky (Oct 28, 2012)

Sorry to hear that Carl, like the old saying goes...
You can please some of the people some of the time, all of the people some of the time... the rest are just a pain in the ass! )or something like that)
Good luck in turning the sale around.
David


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## Kretzky (Oct 28, 2012)

Sorry to hear that Carl, like the old saying goes...
You can please some of the people some of the time, all of the people some of the time... the rest are just a pain in the ass! ) or something like that.
Good luck in turning the sale around.
David
Oooops! sorry for the double post don't know what happened there.


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## Texatdurango (Oct 28, 2012)

Carl Fisher said:


> So the last show a customer ordered a silver maple new series fountain pen based off another silver maple pen they saw on the table.  I told them no problem, I have  full box of wood that came from the exact same tree at home.
> 
> So I get home, order the kit, cut a nice piece taking pictures along the way and get it all turned and assembled.  It was on it's way to the engraver tomorrow and I shot the customer over the finished pen pictures.
> 
> ...


So, what are your plans when you make the second pen and she comes up with another excuse not to accept that one?

If it were me, I'd put the pen you just made in with the other pens you have for sale and tell her to take a hike, problem solved!


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## Carl Fisher (Oct 28, 2012)

I'm going to try to save the customer through at least one more build.  If she comes up with anything additional then I've lost money on the pen.  I'm looking at it so far as it's partially my fault for only ordering one kit the first time and assuming all would go right and shipping costs are just part of doing business.

As it stands, I originally undercharged her for the engraving cost and didn't charge her at all for shipping, so I'm on a pretty thin margin as it is if I want to actually cover my time (which is now doubled).  As Chrissy says though at least we didn't have the engraving done yet and put the other pen in inventory since in reality it is a very nice pen and hope we recoup the money down the road.

Otherwise if she turns her nose up on it again, I'll politely offer to give her a refund and thank her for giving me a chance.


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## Dalecamino (Oct 28, 2012)

She had no commitment. So, she changed her mind. I believe in the 50% down policy. But, that's just my opinion. FWIW


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## Carl Fisher (Oct 28, 2012)

She paid 50% down.  I won't do any custom orders without taking 1/2 up front.


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## OKLAHOMAN (Oct 28, 2012)

Refund the 50% and wash your hands of her.


Carl Fisher said:


> She paid 50% down.  I won't do any custom orders without taking 1/2 up front.


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## Dalecamino (Oct 28, 2012)

Carl Fisher said:


> She paid 50% down.  I won't do any custom orders without taking 1/2 up front.


Sorry, I didn't catch that part. Dump her!!


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## joefyffe (Oct 28, 2012)

Texatdurango said:


> Carl Fisher said:
> 
> 
> > So the last show a customer ordered a silver maple new series fountain pen based off another silver maple pen they saw on the table.  I told them no problem, I have  full box of wood that came from the exact same tree at home.
> ...



No George!  NOT just "a"nother opinion.  Those were my feelings exactly!


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## Buzzzz4 (Oct 28, 2012)

Been there before and told the customer I just couldn't create the right pen for her.


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## Glenn McCullough (Oct 28, 2012)

why did you take 50% down if you are going to give a refund? That's what 50% down is for! I would offer the pen as is for the half paid and let her get her own engraving. Or  she can pay the balance and accept the next one completed. You should not have to absorb the cost of ordering more supplies....IMHO.


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## nava1uni (Oct 28, 2012)

I would also give her back her money and tell her that you are sorry that you can't help her.


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## Holz Mechaniker (Oct 28, 2012)

I do the 50% down as well... of that 30% is NON REFUNDABLE!  and that covers the cost of the kitX2, plus the blankX2.  I believe in the CYA in custom orders.


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## Carl Fisher (Oct 28, 2012)

Glenn McCullough said:


> why did you take 50% down if you are going to give a refund? That's what 50% down is for! I would offer the pen as is for the half paid and let her get her own engraving. Or  she can pay the balance and accept the next one completed. You should not have to absorb the cost of ordering more supplies....IMHO.



Interesting food for thought.  I take the 50% to cover the cost of ordering the parts when necessary and to make sure that the customer is committed to the order.  Without the 50%, I have no security that tells me that the are series about the order.


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## Glenn McCullough (Oct 29, 2012)

the commitment means they are giving you money to keep and you return with the goods to get the balance! You did that. Especially a custom order. I dont think you should return thr money. 
 I dont take any deposits unless there is engraving requested, once it is engraved, they own it. I have never been stiffed in over 200 custom order pen sales. I guess I am lucky, but I also make sure they know its their pen, I am the vehicle they use to get it.



Carl Fisher said:


> Glenn McCullough said:
> 
> 
> > why did you take 50% down if you are going to give a refund? That's what 50% down is for! I would offer the pen as is for the half paid and let her get her own engraving. Or  she can pay the balance and accept the next one completed. You should not have to absorb the cost of ordering more supplies....IMHO.
> ...


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## SteveG (Oct 29, 2012)

Since the first pen will work as part of you stock inventory, it can be viewed as not really being a loss...more an inconvenience. But it sounds like you have a "difficult" customer. Are you confident the second effort can be made to her satisfaction? If you have even a little doubt on that, it may be better to do a refund instead of another pen. You and none of us want to hear part 2 of this story.


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## firewhatfire (Oct 29, 2012)

Why not buy a couple of extra sets of tubes, and turn a couple of them and give her the choice of which she like the best.  Then either add the other to stock or turn the blank off and put tubes in storage.


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## Lucky2 (Oct 29, 2012)

On custom orders I require 50% up front, this is non refundable especially if they pick out the wood or whatever is to be used. And as for engraving and the inherant danger of the engraving process messing up the pen, I require full payment before the engraving gets done. The reason for doing it this way, is that I've been burned in the past. The customer wanted the pen but thought that he could get it on the cheap, just because it was engraved with his name and his company name. I kept the pen and disassembled it and turned another body for the kit, as for the body the I had engraved for him I made sure that he saw me step on it and destroy it. He couldn't believe that I would do that, rather than selling it to him at a reduced cost. He still wants me to turn him a pen, but the chances of that ever happening are very slim to none. I hate people that waffle on a deal. Oh yeah, I kept the deposit, because as the sign says, "Deposits for all custom work is non-refundable", unless I don't complete the project.
Len


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## sbell111 (Oct 29, 2012)

We take 100% up front on orders and simply ship the item to the customer upon completion.  We don't send them numerous pictures as the only thing that does, in my opinion, is give them opportunities to cancel their orders.


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## jasontg99 (Oct 29, 2012)

Carl Fisher said:


> So now I'm sitting here with a custom ordered pen that is in a style that can not be disassembled cleanly.



I have never made that style of pen, but if it is like a Gent, Statesman, Emperor, etc. the pen can be disassembled rather easily.  Just  knock out the cap with a punch.  Insert the cap body into a collet  (center band towards the headstock.  Make sure the centerband is OUT of the collet).  Use a drill chuck on the tailstock  with the corresponding punch to press out the plastic insert and  centerband.  Use your tailstock as a press and slowly press it out.  Use  punches to remove the parts on the lower body.

Hope this helps.  Sorry to hear about your troubles.

Jason


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## nativewooder (Oct 29, 2012)

You have my sympathy and now you know why I don't do custom orders for anyone I'm not married to!


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## Bigj51 (Oct 29, 2012)

sbell111 said:


> We take 100% up front on orders and simply ship the item to the customer upon completion. We don't send them numerous pictures as the only thing that does, in my opinion, is give them opportunities to cancel their orders.


 

This is a very good practice. Since I run an engraving business, 99% of my custom orders are laser engraved. If a customer has to have the pen shipped to them then it is completely paid for before I will even start on it. Doing it this way, I have never had a single problem.


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## Rick P (Oct 29, 2012)

Making custom work also costs me time.....I keep the 50% that covers my cost and the work the customer asked you too do. Same in the guide industry you pay 50% up front if you dont show I have my expenses covered for the day. INCLUDING all the time and leg work that went into the project/trip!

Time is the only thing you can never replace and someday we will all run out!

I would give it one more shot, show her the pen BEFORE it goes to engraving and if she is still unsatisfied.....well then "I can't help you".


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## Fishinbo (Oct 30, 2012)

It is a beautiful pen. It is her loss ...


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## Smitty37 (Oct 30, 2012)

*My Opinion*

Either we stand 100% behind what we sell or we don't.  

That's true whether it's a custom made made Emperor Fountain Pen or a run of the mill slimline ballpoint. 

You need to decide where you stand and do the right thing.

Personally, blowing off a customer is about the last thing I'd do.  The customer, if satisfied, might point a dozen more your way and if not satisfied might point a dozen more away from you.  Maybe not, but you have no way of knowing that.


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## Curly (Oct 30, 2012)

Smitty37 said:


> The customer, if satisfied, might point a dozen more your way and if not satisfied might point a dozen more away from you.



The old standard in Quality was a happy customer will tell 7 people and an unhappy one will tell about 22. With the internet that is likely out the window.


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## Texatdurango (Oct 30, 2012)

Smitty37 said:


> Either we stand 100% behind what we sell or we don't.
> 
> That's true whether it's a custom made made Emperor Fountain Pen or a run of the mill slimline ballpoint.
> 
> ...


Personally, I don't see this as "standing behind what we make".  


Carl accepted a custom order
He made the pen per the order specifications
The customer decided she didn't want it.
Now he has chosen to reorder and remake the pen in hopes that she will like the new pen..... maybe she won't, maybe this is all for nothing if she has already decide that spent a little too much for a pen and is having second thoughts... we don't know.
He stood behind what he made, She changed her mind!  His obligation is completed as far as I'm concerned and shouldn't bend over backwards, possibly losing money just to make her happy in the hopes that she will tell her friends.  

As far as the old adage goes about a happy customer versus an unhappy customer telling friends, I don't think that applies here.  Let's say she's happy with the next pen and shows some friends.  That might result in some follow on business but let's say he decided to just refund her money and drop her.  What is she going to do then, go around the office telling everyone she knows that if they are in the market for a hand made pen that they need to avoid Carl?  I just don't see that happening!


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## John Pratt (Oct 30, 2012)

Do you take pictures of all your pens. Do you still have the original pen. If either, can you place the new pen next to the old (or picture to picture) and show some type of comparison? Maybe it is just not how she remembers it. If you can refresh her memory, she might see that there is no difference and have one of those lightbulb moments. Just a thought.


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## Crashmph (Oct 30, 2012)

I treat custom orders like I have always done, even back when I built computers for people.  I require 50% up front for the total cost.  It is like a mutual insurance policy.

If a customer flakes on me, I always keep the money and the product.  Always have and always will.  This has happened to me 3 times in 12 years that I have been making and selling stuff, be it computers, shadowboxes, or pens.  Just my policy that I always stick to.

/*steps down from soapbox*/

Michael


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## yort81 (Oct 30, 2012)

dalecamino said:


> Carl Fisher said:
> 
> 
> > She paid 50% down.  I won't do any custom orders without taking 1/2 up front.
> ...





THIS !!!!  I would even go one step further.... refund her money... and DUMP HER!


Someone said it best earlier ... 100% down... NO PICTURES.. just send the product (signature required) On to the next pen!


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## Smitty37 (Oct 30, 2012)

*Hmmmm*

I still believe custom product or off the shelf - businesses can either stand behind their products or not.  

I choose to stand behind what I sell - and I collect 100% payment before the product ships.


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## sbell111 (Oct 30, 2012)

Smitty37 said:


> I still believe custom product or off the shelf - businesses can either stand behind their products or not.
> 
> I choose to stand behind what I sell - and I collect 100% payment before the product ships.



It seems that we have now agreed twice within 24 hours.

It seems that you are with me in that we both take 100% up front and simply ship the items without further approval.  If the customer has a problem with what she's received, we deal with that issue by fixing/remaking the item or refunding the money.  Generally, we would leave the 'refund' decision up to the buyer, but in some cases we would have to make that decision.  

If the custom pen was made out of a rare blank that I could no longer easily obtain or with a kit that was now discontinued, for instance, I would have to refund the money.  Similarly, if someone had a problem with kits that had since been discontinued or were found to be flawed (I'm looking at you, polaris clips), you would not be able to fill the order so you would have to refund.

So how does the OP's situation play into our customer service philosophy?  He made a pen as a custom order.  The pen is perfect per the order.  It is the exact material requested and is beautifully turned and finished.  Still, the customer doesn't like it.  

Remaking the pen is not really a good plan.  After all, what would he do differently?  He could forgo making it out of the actual wood that was requested and use a 'regular' curly maple, but he has no real reason to believe that this would satisfy her and he could certainly be then left with two somewhat expensive pens sitting in inventory.

Personally, I think that it is perfectly acceptable to refund the payment if the person is not happy with an item that was properly made to their specifications, as long as the item could be returned to inventory.  I would only keep the deposit if the item could not be added to inventory because it was engraved or the custom job was so 'custom' that it would not be sellable.


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## gwilki (Oct 30, 2012)

The problem with pics is that they look different of every monitor. You can't know what your pen looks like on hers. I would think that the only way around that is to take a pic of the one that she saw at the show and the new one, side by side. At least then, she is comparing apples and applies.

If you stand by making another one, at the very least, it would seem best to turn the barrel and the cap for the new one, but not assemble it. If you want to send pics, send pics of the new barrels. If she reneges again, at least you don't have the problem of trying to dissemble it.


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## Smitty37 (Oct 30, 2012)

sbell111 said:


> Smitty37 said:
> 
> 
> > I still believe custom product or off the shelf - businesses can either stand behind their products or not.
> ...


 I might have misread - but I think all the customer actually saw was a picture, I don't think I would redo the pen until they saw the real thing.  Unless the OP is a heck of a lot better with a camera than I am, the picture might not be a perfect reflection of the pen.  I even find catalog photo colors are often not very close to the actual color of blanks when they arrive and I'm sure they're done by professional photographers.  I'd make sure she saw the actual pen and go from there.


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## sbell111 (Oct 31, 2012)

Smitty37 said:


> I might have misread - but I think all the customer actually saw was a picture, I don't think I would redo the pen until they saw the real thing.  Unless the OP is a heck of a lot better with a camera than I am, the picture might not be a perfect reflection of the pen.  I even find catalog photo colors are often not very close to the actual color of blanks when they arrive and I'm sure they're done by professional photographers.  I'd make sure she saw the actual pen and go from there.


I think that that is a prudent plan.  The question is what to do if she still doesn't like it.


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## glycerine (Oct 31, 2012)

Is there a way for her to see it in person?  Pictures don't always reflect the actual color...


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## maxwell_smart007 (Oct 31, 2012)

If she's not happy with it, you can either make it right, or make a clean break.  Forcing her to relinquish some of her money is going to result in bad blood, and bad word of mouth - both of which are bad for small vendors. 

It's not as if she's said that she's not willing to buy a pen and has changed her mind - she just doesn't like the final product...so figure out if it's possible to make it right for her, else walk away. 

I'd probably just absorb the cost of the pen she didn't like, and make another, were it me.  There's always a chance of selling that one at the next show.


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## Andrew_K99 (Oct 31, 2012)

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is the photo quality. It's kind of dark and may be why she said it was "too dark and looks too masculine".

Attached is a comparison between the picture you posted and one I adjusted the white balance on. Maybe send her a different picture?


AK


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## Smitty37 (Oct 31, 2012)

sbell111 said:


> Smitty37 said:
> 
> 
> > I might have misread - but I think all the customer actually saw was a picture, I don't think I would redo the pen until they saw the real thing.  Unless the OP is a heck of a lot better with a camera than I am, the picture might not be a perfect reflection of the pen.  I even find catalog photo colors are often not very close to the actual color of blanks when they arrive and I'm sure they're done by professional photographers.  I'd make sure she saw the actual pen and go from there.
> ...


I can only say that I would eat the cost and do what it takes to make her a happy camper.  
The same thing I do selling commodity items.


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## SteveJ (Oct 31, 2012)

Hey, those aren't pictures of the same pen.....One looks like a men's pen and the other looks like a lady's pen....


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## maxwell_smart007 (Oct 31, 2012)

Andrew_K99 said:


> One thing I haven't seen mentioned is the photo quality. It's kind of dark and may be why she said it was "too dark and looks too masculine".
> 
> Attached is a comparison between the picture you posted and one I adjusted the white balance on. Maybe send her a different picture?
> View attachment 83812
> ...



There's your answer right there - is the second picture closer to the real-life colour of the pen?


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## Carl Fisher (Oct 31, 2012)

Still here and still reading the replies 

To Andrews point about the picture, the second one posted looks over exposed and the white actually washes out the pen on my monitor.  That being said, if I hold the actual pen up to my montior's representation of the picture, it's pretty true to color.  Not saying it's such on her monitor but what I'll probably do is send her pictures of the original and ask her if it looks the same as she remembered it.

I think what she ultimately didn't like was the fact that the figuring in that piece darkened the wood.  The initial piece, although from the same tree and in this case ultimately from the same slab was very clear as far as silver maple goes. She lives down in Florida so I can't show it to her in person.  As for just finishing it and sending it, because it's being engraved, showing the picture to me was an insurance policy before I had it personalized and unsellable in any other venue.

Lots of good advice and food for thought.  I am however going try a second version trying to find as clear of a piece as I can to keep the light look.  I'm also going to forgo any portion of the finish that might darken the look (oil before CA).  This time I'm also going to let her see it before I assemble so I can keep the kit for another project if we decide that I can't meet her request and we decide to part ways.

I'm willing to give someone a second chance and she has since eased up on her time frame and allowed me the time to try again.  But she is also aware that this is the last attempt.

Going forward I think I'll put a non-refundable clause on the deposit of all special orders.  No different than what you deal with when you get paint mixed.  Once it's mixed, if it's the wrong color, too bad.


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## Carl Fisher (Oct 31, 2012)

I should also add that I'm going to start requiring 100% payment for any engraved orders before they ever go to the engraver.  Once it's personalized, you own it no matter what.


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## LL Woodworks (Oct 31, 2012)

If you are going to try and satisfy her vs telling her to take a hike; I'm not sure that I wouldn't turn and finish a small piece of the stock, send it to her for her opinion opposed to sending more photos. You may not be able to please her and your out only a small piece of stock.   Just Saying !!


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## Smitty37 (Oct 31, 2012)

Carl Fisher said:


> Still here and still reading the replies
> 
> To Andrews point about the picture, the second one posted looks over exposed and the white actually washes out the pen on my monitor.  That being said, if I hold the actual pen up to my montior's representation of the picture, it's pretty true to color.  Not saying it's such on her monitor but what I'll probably do is send her pictures of the original and ask her if it looks the same as she remembered it.
> 
> ...



Not where I buy my paint - if it's the wrong color the store owns it.  Unless I have agreed that it was the right color and left the store with it, then there is no return.


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## TellicoTurning (Oct 31, 2012)

My solution is simple.... I don't do custom orders... pick from stock or move on... to me it's just not worth the hassle.


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## raar25 (Oct 31, 2012)

I suggest you cut up a few blanks and send her a picture of the wood and let her pick the one she likes.  If she doesnt like any of them then thank her for the chance but unfortunately you don't have a piece of wood that meets her needs and send her the money back.  This prevents you from investing the time and cost of making another pen.


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## sbell111 (Nov 2, 2012)

TellicoTurning said:


> My solution is simple.... I don't do custom orders... pick from stock or move on... to me it's just not worth the hassle.


I would like to do that, but I'm greedy.

Most of our special orders are generated at shows if a person likes one style of pen but would like it using wood that they see on our table on a different style of pen.  Typically, these are super popular/premium materials that we sell out of during the show, but not always.  These special orders allow us to increase our sales without making huge additions to show inventory.


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