# A Word of CAUTION



## its_virgil (Sep 25, 2006)

In my snake skin casting tutorial I showed a picture and explained how to make a lid the the HF paint tank from corian with a lexan window to observe the resin. That lid failed last nite with a loud boom and near heart failure from me as I was watching the resin bubble through the window. No injuries or damage as the pieces traveled toward the tank and stayed on top of it. I suppose that was a stupid thing to make the lid from, but it is working for another guy with no problems of which I'm aware. Any way, I'm going to change the lid for the vacuum process. Proceed with caution and be safe. Here is a picture of the lid afterwards.









Do a good turn daily!
Don


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## gerryr (Sep 25, 2006)

All you have left is a little red "X"?[:0][:0]


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## wdcav1952 (Sep 25, 2006)

> _Originally posted by gerryr_
> <br />All you have left is a little red "X"?[:0][:0]



Gerry, maybe that just marks the spot! []


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## its_virgil (Sep 25, 2006)

Now take a look. It scared the liver out of me. I was looking in the window watching the resin bubble when it "boomed".[]
Do a good turn daily!
Don


> _Originally posted by wdcav1952_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...


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## TBone (Sep 25, 2006)

> _Originally posted by its_virgil_
> <br />Now take a look. It scared the liver out of me. I was looking in the window watching the resin bubble when it "boomed".[]
> Do a good turn daily!
> Don



Don, Glad you're ok.  Now for priorities.........
new articles of underclothing first [:0]
new top for pot second [][]


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## OKLAHOMAN (Sep 25, 2006)

Don, I've either read or some one told me to get a big glass pickle jar to draw a vacume in , have you thuoght of maybe trying that instead if the pot?


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## Mudder (Sep 25, 2006)

Wow!

Glad the only thing you had to change was your shorts Don.

That corian was probably just too brittle a material to use. You might want to look around for a thick piece of acrylic or Plexiglas for the next top. I use one for my vacuum setup but my vessel is probably only 6-7" in diameter so I don't know how it would do on a vessel the size of the paint pot. Another good idea would be to look for a thick piece of aluminum to make my next one out of.

You did prove a very important point though. Under vacuum the lid imploded and everything was drawn in. Same thing would happen to the glass vessels that were spoken of in an earlier stabilizing thread.

http://www.penturners.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16066


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## gerryr (Sep 25, 2006)

That's a very impressive lesson.


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## alamocdc (Sep 25, 2006)

Don, had I been in your shoes I can guarantee one thing... I'd have made a bigger mess than this did.[:0] Glad you came out of it relatively unscathed!


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## Russb (Sep 25, 2006)

How much vacuum were you pulling?


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## Dario (Sep 25, 2006)

Glad you are safe Don.

Thanks for the warning.


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## its_virgil (Sep 25, 2006)

I hooked the vacuum pump and turned it on. The guage was reading in the 25 inHG range. I should have done the calculations. That much vacuum was producing a load of 1200 lbs on the lid. Evidently too much for the corian. I will either find a smaller vessel or use a metal lid. I have a friend who is giving me a piece of high tensil strength aluminum which should withstand that kind of pressure. A smaller vessel will reduce the force on the lid also. When we vote for the year's most studip penturning stunt I suppose I will win hands down.[]
Thanks for all of the concern. I've revised the turorial so this doesn't happen to someone else down the road. The revision will be posted as soon as Jeff gets it done.
Do a good turn daily!
Don


> _Originally posted by Russb_
> <br />How much vacuum were you pulling?


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## its_virgil (Sep 25, 2006)

Thanks Dario. Any news on yuour attendance at SWAT this weekend? What were the blanks you gave me in Dallas that were stabilized with plexiglass and acetone? There were golden and had blace ??spalt lines?? in them. 
Do a good turn daily!
Don


> _Originally posted by Dario_
> <br />Glad you are safe Don.
> 
> Thanks for the warning.


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## Yarael (Sep 25, 2006)

well just be glad it was under vacume instead of pressure. Vacumes implode instead of explode. But boy they sure go bang either which way. Glad that was all the damage that happened and that you didnt end up getting hurt.


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## low_48 (Sep 25, 2006)

If you are going to use a clear lid, use polycarbonate, not plexiglas. Plexi is way too brittle and will shatter like glass. Poly will bend and not break and is used for bullet proofing as well. Polycarbonate always amazes me. You can put poly in a sheet metal brake and pull a cold bend over 90 degrees. You can even take a curl with a hand plane. It just looks too much like glass to be able to do that. When I first learned of vacuum veneering, I attended a seminar by Darryl Keil from Maine. He starts his show by putting a piece of 3/4" particle board across some 2x2's inside the vacuum bag. He pulls a vacuum and you watch the particle board bow and then WHAM[:0] the sheet breaks in half. A very graphic way to show the weight of our atmosphere.
Glad you are okay Don. Thanks for that tutorial as well.
Rich


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## DocRon (Sep 26, 2006)

Hi
The amount of psi generated by the vacuum and the size and shape of the vessel are critical here. Had the experience industrially in a lab of making a vacuum vessel froma 55 gal drum. Big mistake. The first time the pump was turned on the vessel caved in at the flat ends with a LOUD bang. We had to make one of heavy steel with DOMED ends. The dome shape resists the pressure much better. Such a cover could easily be made of wood, tho it might have to be reinforced with fiberglass and epoxy. A heavy plexiglas or polycarbonate window could be inserted. (Polycarbonate (Lexan) has the unfortunate property of stress cracking in contact with some solvents, especially acetone, and will just cumble away.)  I would NOT use a glass vessel, such as a pickle jar, which has a flat end on it. I think that is a recipe for disaster, since the glass will implode, especially as with use  it picks up scratches and so on which will weaken it. Just a couple of comments from experience.


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## PenWorks (Sep 26, 2006)

Okay, you got my vote []
Glad all that broke was the pot and you escaped without any battle scares. []


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## ctEaglesc (Sep 26, 2006)

Since I have been successfully using a vacuum for over 2 years with no major mishaps I didn't look at your tutorial.(If it aint broke, don't fix it)
What I found interesting is the shape in whish your corian broke.
They look like perfect pie shaped pieces.
How do the fractures represent the sections that you cut for the window?
I am guessing a window would work if it were round rather than sqaure.


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## its_virgil (Sep 26, 2006)

I was intrigued by  the shape of the sections also. There were five almost identical pie shapped sections as you mentioned. The hole for the window was round and centered. The lexan pane was square and epoxied to the top. After doing the calculations the 11 inch diameter paint pot and the 26 inHg I was pulling equals close to a 1200 lb load on the lid. I should have done the calculations first...I suppose corian is too brittle for that much load. Finding a smaller vacuum vessel will reduce the load on the lid and I'm in the process of making a lid from high tensil strenght aluminum which should work out fine. 

BTW, the tutorial was not just on vacuum casting, but on casting snake skin blanks and the vacuum was only one small part of the turorial which has now been revised to omit the use of corian or similar material for the vacuum vessel lid.

Do a good turn daily!
Don


> _Originally posted by ctEaglesc_
> <br />Since I have been successfully using a vacuum for over 2 years with no major mishaps I didn't look at your tutorial.(If it aint broke, don't fix it)
> What I found interesting is the shape in whish your corian broke.
> They look like perfect pie shaped pieces.
> ...


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## Dario (Sep 26, 2006)

> _Originally posted by its_virgil_
> <br />Thanks Dario. Any news on yuour attendance at SWAT this weekend? What were the blanks you gave me in Dallas that were stabilized with plexiglass and acetone? There were golden and had blace ??spalt lines?? in them.
> Do a good turn daily!
> Don



Don,

Those are spalted alder.  Though those were stabilized with plexi-acetone...the solution didn't really penetrate deep enough so please plan accordingly.  I usually drill with smaller bit, soak the hole with thin CA then re-drill.

I am afraid SWAT meeting is totally out for me, my family emergency is not yet over.

I am sure you will all have a good time...wish I can join you but maybe next time.  

The weather also seems to be improving a lot []...helps when there are lots of men around [][}]


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## Mudder (Sep 26, 2006)

> _Originally posted by DocRon_
> <br /> I would NOT use a glass vessel, such as a pickle jar, which has a flat end on it. I think that is a recipe for disaster, since the glass will implode, especially as with use  it picks up scratches and so on which will weaken it. Just a couple of comments from experience.



This has been argued before:

http://www.penturners.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16066

I have been using pickle jars and bell jars for over 10 years and have not had many problems. I checked out logs and found that in 16 years we have had 11 "catastrophic failures" (implosions) 7 have been pickle jars and 4 have been bell jars. I have witnessed or seen the aftermath of 7 of these failures. GLASS DOES NOT FLY ALL OVER THE PLACE. Once the failure begins the pressure is relieved so fast that there is not enough inertia in the glass to go anywhere, it basically falls into a pile on the bench.

As I have said before, we use a cage of Â¼â€ screen mesh as an implosion guard and I have never seen or heard of the glass making it to the guard which is 3â€ bigger in diameter that our vacuum vessels. I am much more likely to be hurt cleaning up the broken glass that I would be during the implosion.

At any given time we have at least 10 vessels under vacuum in the lab and when we have large orders all 20 vessels are being used. Quite often we leave the vessels under vacuum all weekend so I would estimate they are used 320-350 days a year.


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## ctEaglesc (Sep 26, 2006)

> _Originally posted by DocRon_
> <br />Hi
> The amount of psi generated by the vacuum and the size and shape of the vessel are critical here. Had the experience industrially in a lab of making a vacuum vessel froma 55 gal drum. Big mistake. The first time the pump was turned on the vessel caved in at the flat ends with a LOUD bang. We had to make one of heavy steel with DOMED ends. The dome shape resists the pressure much better. Such a cover could easily be made of wood, tho it might have to be reinforced with fiberglass and epoxy. A heavy plexiglas or polycarbonate window could be inserted. (Polycarbonate (Lexan) has the unfortunate property of stress cracking in contact with some solvents, especially acetone, and will just cumble away.)  I would NOT use a glass vessel, such as a pickle jar, which has a flat end on it. I think that is a recipe for disaster, since the glass will implode, especially as with use  it picks up scratches and so on which will weaken it. Just a couple of comments from experience.



What experience have you had with pickle jars?
Your track record for 55 gallon drums speaks volumes.

I question the intelligence of anyone who thought they could pull a vaccum of any kind on a 55 gallon drum without a mishap.
I have been using pickle jars for two years using a vacuum that will pull 25 inches and had only one "break", nothing happened, I lost the vacuum.


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## its_virgil (Sep 26, 2006)

Oh, I had battle scares but no battle scars. [][}]The pot is ok, just the corian lid is trash. Back to the drawing board.
Do a good turn daily!
Don


> _Originally posted by PenWorks_
> <br />Okay, you got my vote []
> Glad all that broke was the pot and you escaped without any battle scares. []


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## bonefish (Sep 26, 2006)

I've never built a vacuum chamber. I have been reading the posts about paint cans and pickle jars.

It seems like a very strong, and safe, vacuum chamber could be made from steel pipe about six inches in diameter, about a foot long, and threaded on each end.

A cap would be tightly and permanetly fastened to the bottom. The top cap would screw on, using a thread sealent, and tight enough so that it wouldn't leak.

The same type of vacuum chamber could be made from plastic water pipe, but it might not be strong enough, although some of this plastic pipe is rated for an internal pressure of about 150 PSI.

Of course, you would not be able to watch what was going on in the chamber.

The steel pipe would be available (I think) from a company that installs water mains.

Bonefish


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## ctEaglesc (Sep 26, 2006)

Y'all are making this sound like rocket science.
 It aint.
Steel pipes?


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## smoky10 (Sep 26, 2006)

A pickle jar is perfect for a small vacuum chamber. By the time you bought the pipe, cut it, threaded it, bought the caps you could have bought a jar of pickles cheaper. Some restaurants will save the jars for you if you ask.


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## Mudder (Sep 26, 2006)

> _Originally posted by bonefish_
> <br />
> 
> The same type of vacuum chamber could be made from plastic water pipe, but it might not be strong enough, although some of this plastic pipe is rated for an internal pressure of about 150 PSI.




About half way down the page:

http://www.paragoncode.com/shop/vacuum_pump/


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## Mudder (Sep 26, 2006)

Don;

Here are some pics of my vacuum vessel. It is nothing more than a 3/16" glass vase I bought at Michaels.
Polycarbonate top with a piece of 1/8" rubber glued to it.


<b>Image Insert:</b><br />

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## its_virgil (Sep 26, 2006)

Thanks a lot Scott. I hope to get it redesigned next week.
Do a good turn daily!
Don


> _Originally posted by Mudder_
> <br />Don;
> 
> Here are some pics of my vacuum vessel. It is nothing more than a 3'16" glass vase I bought at Michaels.
> Polycarbonate top with a piece of 1/8" rubber glued to it.


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## Dario (Sep 27, 2006)

I think the big difference between the 2 is that the glass vase Mudder used has a much smaller diameter.


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## bonefish (Sep 27, 2006)

Steel pipe wouldn't explode or implode.

If I'm not mistaken, we are talking about a vacuum chamber that would not present any danger.

A pickle jar is for pickles. A steel water pipe is to hold pressure in, but it can also be used to hold it out. Go figure.

I can't imagine a steel pipe exploding or imploding and getting killed or worse. I can imigine a pickle jar imploding or exploding and getting killed or worse.

My recommendition is to use the pickle jar to store pickles in for using to make pickles in.

Whether this is rocket science or not, I don't think a rocket scientist would build a vacuum chamber out of a pickle jar. I wouldn't.

Bonefish

Bonefish


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## ctEaglesc (Sep 28, 2006)

> _Originally posted by bonefish_
> <br />Steel pipe wouldn't explode or implode.
> 
> If I'm not mistaken, we are talking about a vacuum chamber that would not present any danger.
> ...



Have you heard about pipe bombs?
Your post is confusing.The only statement I understood is that you believe the only way to safely make a vacuum chamber is one that would not allow you to observe what is happening inside the chamber while a vacuum is being pulled.
Pulling a maximum vacuum with the solution inside is usually a messy situation.(For those who do not knoiw what they are talking about I said messy, not dangerous)
Before you post your innacurate beliefs about something you know nothing about, try making the chamber the way you describe and post your results.( threaded steel pipe)
I'll be anxiously awaiting the report.
It still aint rocket science, but they have invented the wheel and the earth is not flat.


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## smoky10 (Sep 28, 2006)

> _Originally posted by bonefish_
> <br />Steel pipe wouldn't explode or implode.
> 
> If I'm not mistaken, we are talking about a vacuum chamber that would not present any danger.
> ...



If you want to make your vacuum chamber out of pipe, go ahead, thats your choice. I will continue to use pickle jars and as long as I don't knock it off the table or hit it with a hammer I will be safe.


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## btboone (Sep 28, 2006)

It's all about the square inches. Something long and cylindrical like mudder has is fairly strong because of the tight curvature of the walls.  The flat bottom is the weak point of the design, but it look pretty beefy in this case.  The lid works from a thick piece of acrylic only because the square inches are down.  If it were the size of a pressure cooker, it would probably collapse the lid (and floor for that matter) if it were made of the same glass and plastic.


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## its_virgil (Sep 28, 2006)

Correct and an important difference. Each square inch reduction in area of the lid is a reduction of about 14 lbs to the load on the lid, depending of course on how many inHg the pump is pulling. The 11 in diameter paint pot produces a load of arount 1400 lbs at 30 inHg, but reducing the diameter to 6 reduces the load to about 416 lbs. ... a 1000 lb difference.

But, as eagle mentioned, degassing a liquid with vacuum can be a real messy chore with the liquid bubbling as the gas is removed. It get even messier when the liquid is a thick resin about the consistency of honey. Being able to look in to control the bubbling's vigor by controlling the vacuum strength is important.

After watching the resin's behavior for the last 3 months I have an idea of how vigorous the bubbling is. I've done two castings since the mishap putting 8 oz of resin in qt jar and placing the jar inside the paint tank. I used the paint tank lid and left the vacuum pump running for 10 minutes and no spillage. I may not need a smaller tank or a lid with windows.

do a good turn daily!
Don



> _Originally posted by Dario_
> <br />I think the big difference between the 2 is that the glass vase Mudder used has a much smaller diameter.


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## DocRon (Sep 28, 2006)

> _Originally posted by ctEaglesc_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...


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## its_virgil (Sep 28, 2006)

We have been told over and over by several persons who use pickle jars for vacuum chambers with almost zero mishaps and when they do the impolsions leaves the glass in a pile on top of the jar's footprint. Even putting a wire cage around the jar was not necessary, but it was safe. 

Scott Hettle, aka Mudder, has told us of this numerous times, given reports numerous times, and even posted pictures of how he does it...every day in his real job, numerous vessels online at the same time, often over nite or even over the weekend with a very very  low percentage of failures. Just be careful cleaning up if one of the jars does break.[]

Obviously, Scott knows his business and I can trust his report and recomendations. Vacuum on! Besides, I love pickles and the aroma of pickles in the shop is better than the aroma of the resin. Say Scott, will 'bread and butter' jars work...my favorite. [][}]

Do a good turn daily!
Don



> <br /> I can imigine a pickle jar imploding or exploding and getting killed or worse.


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## its_virgil (Sep 28, 2006)

Hey Aanthony,
You're the only vote so far. I guess others know something else and are saving their votes, or are wainting until someone else (or me) does something more less intelligent.[]
Do a good turn daily!
Don


> _Originally posted by PenWorks_
> <br />Okay, you got my vote []
> Glad all that broke was the pot and you escaped without any battle scares. []


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## gerryr (Sep 28, 2006)

I work for an engineering firm and I just talked with our chief stress engineer.  He said that flat surfaces are highly prone to failure under vacuum.  He said the reason a canning jar lid works is that it is dome shaped to begin with.  He also said that design for vacuum is totally different than design for pressure, and that just because something is designed for high pressure does not make it a good candidate to withstand vacuum.


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## ctEaglesc (Sep 28, 2006)

> _Originally posted by gerryr_
> <br />I work for an engineering firm and I just talked with our chief stress engineer.  He said that flat surfaces are highly prone to failure under vacuum.  He said the reason a canning jar lid works is that it is dome shaped to begin with.  He also said that design for vacuum is totally different than design for pressure, and that just because something is designed for high pressure does not make it a good candidate to withstand vacuum.


I use FLAT plexi glass with a rubber gasket a la Mudder AND I use regular pickle jar lids with replacement valve stems a la Smoky Tom.
Neither of these iitems are domed.
Yes I understand a domed shape is stronger but what I have been using for 2 y ears works.
The worse that can happen is the seal weakens and won't hold a vacuum.
In that case I make another lid.
I replace lids because the "gasket" weakens or gets hard but don't have to replace the "chamber.
The search function on this site will bring up VOLUMES of threads on stabilizing with a vacuum and the first mention of plexiglass and acetone mix was in August of 2004.
HAppy reading.( search the archives)


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## gerryr (Sep 28, 2006)

Did I say that flat won't work?  I only said flat is highly prone to failure.  The very thin canning lids work because they're dome shaped.  The plexiglass undoubtedly works because it is a lot more flexible than corian.  Bumblebees also can't fly, ask any aeronautics engineer, their wings are too small for their mass.[]


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## bonefish (Sep 28, 2006)

Sorry, Eagle. This is my final post on the subject. I won't participate in a mud slinging contest, whether I know what I am talking about or not.

Just remember--if something CAN happen, sooner or later it will. that was the point I was trying to make. I don't understand why you made the comments that you did. It just seems obvious that a steel pipe would have a greater safety margin than a glass jar.

The weak spot in an glass jar is the flat bottom, as someone said.

If you look closely at a Champagne bottle, you will find that the bottom is concave, if you are looking at it from the outside. It is designed that way to reinforce the glass bottle.

A scratch in the glass is another potential weak spot.

Since an egg shell is convex on the outside, with the atmospheric pressure acting on the dome portion, you could probably make a vacuum chamber from an Ostrich egg.

How about a round fish bowl, or even a large light bulb? The possibilities are endless. 

For what the people who make castings are doing, and I have never cast in either a pressure chamber or a vacuum chamber, a steel pipe would get it's strength, and along with the strength, safety from the tensile strength of the steel, and not depend on the domed shape, although a domed shape would obviously be stronger. Of course, I'm sure if someone put their mind to it, they could also collaspe or explode a closed up steel pipe.



That's the reason dams are built with the curve, or dome shape toward the water in the lake. An arc, with pressure acting on the high side, is one of the strongest geometrical shapes in existence. The same principal applies to bridges.

Threading each end can be done. In my younger years, I worked for a plumber. Ninety percent of my job was hand threading galvanized water pipe, from 1/2 inch diameter, up to eight inches in diameter. The eight inch diameter pipe was for water mains.

I have probably cut several miles of threads, so I definately do know what I am talking about when it comes to threading pipe and screwing fitings on the threaded part, whether the fitting was an elbow, tee, or a cap, then pressure testing it for leaks. Believe it or not, what I have just described actually works.

Bonefish


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## Mudder (Sep 28, 2006)

Just a couple of quick corrections:




> _Originally posted by its_virgil_
> <br />
> 
> Scott Hettle, aka Mudder



The name is Scott Hettel [!] (many folks spell it incorrectly) []




> _Originally posted by DocRon_
> 
> Have had no experience with the pickle jar vessel, just concerned that the flat base would not be strong enough.



A pickle jar is not exactly flat on the bottom. I'm not sure how much of a curve you need but if you look closely you will see a slight curve on the bottom and at the edges.

The vase I use is also slightly curved at the bottom and is much thicker than a pickle jar. I use it because it holds a 1 quart mason jar very nicely for stabelizing and the wide opening allows my fat hamfists to get the jar inside without spilling.


If you do not feel safe using a pickle jar then I suggest that you do not use one. There are several other ways to make a vessel. Do a search on the net and you will find several.


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## gerryr (Sep 28, 2006)

Pickle jars R Us.[]


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## wdcav1952 (Sep 28, 2006)

> _Originally posted by bonefish_
> <br /> Believe it or not, what I have just described actually works.
> 
> Bonefish



My advice would be to do it your way and let others do it their way.  Plenty of information and misinformation has been posted, on this thread and others.  There have also been sufficient warnings of consquences, dire and otherwise posted.

Don started a great thread with a valid warning.  I personally think this subject is ready to lay to rest.


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## Mudder (Sep 28, 2006)

> _Originally posted by bonefish_
> <br />
> If you look closely at a Champagne bottle, you will find that the bottom is concave, if you are looking at it from the outside. It is designed that way to reinforce the glass bottle.



Point of fact:

A Champagne bottle is under pressure, not vacuum.

Pickles come packed under vacuum, not pressure.

Exceed the strength of any material, be it flat or curved and it will fail.


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## DCBluesman (Sep 28, 2006)

> If you look closely at a Champagne bottle, you will find that the bottom is concave


 When I look at a champagne bottle it's usually well on it's way to being empty.[8D]  Glad to hear that your incident caused no bodily damage, Don.  And thanks for the other "lessons learned".  I love the practical education that you and others offer up.


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## pssherman (Sep 28, 2006)

As an engineering professor I'd like to add the following comments:

1) Glass jars and bottles have a slightly curved bottom so that will sit flat on a shelf, not for strength.
2) The bottoms of the jars and bottles are much thicker than the walls and this is where the strength comes from.
3) Failure from a vacuum is due to buckling of the structure, not failure of the material.
4) Resistance to buckling is a function of the thickness, radius of curvature and stiffness of the material.
5) There is little potential for damage/danger for objects outside of the vessel. The material goes inward and strikes the contents or material coming from the other direction. Very rarely will a piece go through this haelstrom without being stopped.
6) Cutting a hole in the center of a flat circular plate will reduce its resistance to buckling. Thus a solid disk of plexiglass will be lass likely to buckle than corian (of the same thickness) with a hole in the center for a window.

Hope this clears things up a little.

Paul in AR


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## smoky10 (Sep 28, 2006)

Oh no, my wife just brought me another pickle jar, really she did. [][]


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## wdcav1952 (Sep 28, 2006)

> _Originally posted by pssherman_
> <br />As an engineering professor I'd like to add the following comments:
> 
> 1) Glass jars and bottles have a slightly curved bottom so that will sit flat on a shelf, not for strength.
> ...



And as a dentist, I would like to add that you should brush and floss daily. [8D]


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## wood-of-1kind (Sep 28, 2006)

> _Originally posted by wdcav1952_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...


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## wdcav1952 (Sep 28, 2006)

> _Originally posted by wood-of-1kind_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...


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## beamer (Sep 28, 2006)

> _Originally posted by wdcav1952_
> (With apologies to the author whose line I shamelessly stole and used for my own purposes.  No animals were harmed in the posting of this response.)



There were, however, two flies and eleven ants harmed in the reading of that response.


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## RussFairfield (Sep 28, 2006)

Can I assume that those who are afraid of a vacuum in a Mason jar will never go into a grocery store because one of those hundreds of jars with a 29" vacuum inside of them might break?? Heaven forbid that they should pick one of them up and carry it home. [:0][:0]


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## wood-of-1kind (Sep 28, 2006)

> _Originally posted by wdcav1952_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...


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## Mudder (Sep 28, 2006)

> _Originally posted by RussFairfield_
> <br />Can I assume that those who are afraid of a vacuum in a Mason jar will never go into a grocery store because one of those hundreds of jars with a 29" vacuum inside of them might break?? Heaven forbid that they should pick one of them up and carry it home. [:0][:0]




Dang Russ;

That's what I've been trying to say! [8)]


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## TBone (Sep 28, 2006)

Guess you city boys never canned any vegetables and sat around at night waiting for the tops to "ping".  Many a mason jar in this country currently under vacuum.  Not sure how much vacuum compared to what's used her.  But some have been under vacuum for long periods of time and some have been used over and over for years.  My mother has been making her own pickle and putting some of those jars under vacuum for probably 40 years.  Pickles are much better than those store bought too.  Especially the pickle made from watermelon rhind [][][]


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