# First Celtic Knot



## jlmoon (Nov 11, 2021)

Hi guys,
Very new to turning pens or pencils. I made this woody pencil from Penn State, and I thought I would put a Celtic knot in it. I used a 60° angle to make the cuts in the blank. The blank was 3/4 of an inch thick and the inserts were an eighth of an inch thick ( the kerf on our table saw). 

I had hoped to keep the final product fairly thick ( about .58") but the knot pattern didn't show up in the middle until about 0.4". Any suggestions so that the knot pattern will be visible with a thicker final barrel?

Thanks,
Jonathan


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## Sphoenix (Nov 11, 2021)

not a pro, but i think your angle was too steep. shoot for 35 to 45 degrees. the two i've done (not on pens, but magic wands) were at 45 and they came out great.


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## KenB259 (Nov 11, 2021)

.


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## jttheclockman (Nov 11, 2021)

I do not think your angle is too steep even though I prefer around 53 as a good mark. The problem I see is twofold. First using an 1/8" thick blade is too fat. It smothers the knot in my opinion. You can use a 7-1/4" blade on your saw and it still will cut deep enough to make knots. You can get these in 3/32" and 1/16" thick. The second thing to compensate for the knot you need to use thicker piece of wood for the blank. I like to work with 1" square. Now if you are not cutting all the way through is what cause the knot to not be completed when turned. You need to cut deeper. That is why I like 1" stock and leave about 1/16" remaining when making my cuts. Now I have explained before how I make my knots and a few tricks I use. Of course we all know the inlay material needs to match the saw kerf just about exactly. A tad thinner is acceptable. I lay the blank on a flat table after I made a cut so that the blank is now relaxed state. I then slide my infill in with glue. This should be a nice snug fit but slides in easily. Now I clamp the ends lightly. This clamping method should not raise the blank off the table at all. If it does then the infill is not thick enough. This is a good way to check fit. Let dry and trim back down to 1" square again and rinse and repeat. Perfect knots every time. Good luck. By the way when you do a cove in the center of a knot throws the balance off and does not look good in my opinion. Save the fancy coves and beads for woodworking of another kind. Some people can make look good on a pen but requires a skill. What you did is not a good look again my opinion.


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## jlmoon (Nov 12, 2021)

jttheclockman said:


> I do not think your angle is too steep even though I prefer around 53 as a good mark. The problem I see is twofold. First using an 1/8" thick blade is too fat. It smothers the knot in my opinion. You can use a 7-1/4" blade on your saw and it still will cut deep enough to make knots. You can get these in 3/32" and 1/16" thick. The second thing to compensate for the knot you need to use thicker piece of wood for the blank. I like to work with 1" square. Now if you are not cutting all the way through is what cause the knot to not be completed when turned. You need to cut deeper. That is why I like 1" stock and leave about 1/16" remaining when making my cuts. Now I have explained before how I make my knots and a few tricks I use. Of course we all know the inlay material needs to match the saw kerf just about exactly. A tad thinner is acceptable. I lay the blank on a flat table after I made a cut so that the blank is now relaxed state. I then slide my infill in with glue. This should be a nice snug fit but slides in easily. Now I clamp the ends lightly. This clamping method should not raise the blank off the table at all. If it does then the infill is not thick enough. This is a good way to check fit. Let dry and trim back down to 1" square again and rinse and repeat. Perfect knots every time. Good luck. By the way when you do a cove in the center of a knot throws the balance off and does not look good in my opinion. Save the fancy coves and beads for woodworking of another kind. Some people can make look good on a pen but requires a skill. What you did is not a good look again my opinion.


Oh I agree about the profile of the pencil. I had to cut it that deep in the middle to get the knot to show up, and the kit necessitated the wider part to a degree. Thanks for the advice everyone. I think I will try the 45 degree angle first, then also try starting with 1" stock. I have some spare slimline tubes, so I can afford to waste a few blanks.


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## alanemorrison (Nov 12, 2021)

If you put 3 or even 5 veneers together to make up the same thickness as the kerf you will take that 'heavy' look off your knot. 
I would recommend that you stay between 50 and 60 degrees.
Try one using 60 degrees again and multible veneers and you will see a big difference.
As JT says. use 1 inch stock.


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## jttheclockman (Nov 12, 2021)

If you are going to use a 1/8" saw blade then at 45 degrees you are going to wipe out the knot completly.


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