# Kitless Section



## LL Woodworks (May 23, 2012)

I'm slowly working my way though the process of kitless FP making. Have followed several of the tutorials in the library and a few videos on Youtube.  A couple of these resources use a .252" reamer on the tennon end of the grip section to get the converter to seat properly.  

I don't have one and haven't been able to locate one.  I was wondering , do all you FP makers use a reamer on the grip section?  Is there another method?

As always I appreciate the advise and wisdom.


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## Dalecamino (May 23, 2012)

I have an arts & crafts knife that I've used to scrape/shave material out with, while the lathe is running. It's the knife with a thin blade that comes to a point, and has a knurled section for grip. Works for me. That reamer is a tool used by aircraft mechanics, I believe. George has a knack for finding things I've never heard of. Hope this helps.


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## Timebandit (May 23, 2012)

They are called chucking reamers. I use the top one. Its cheapest.

Metalworking | Reamers | Straight Shank Straight Flute Import Chucking Reamer, Decimal Size .252, | B555693 - GlobalIndustrial.com

.252 chucking reamer

Buy 4 Flute Solid Carbide .252 Sol. Carbide Dec. Reamer from UseEnco


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## Andrew_K99 (May 23, 2012)

FWIW 6.4mm = 0.251968504"  So a metric drill bit should also work.


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## dow (May 23, 2012)

Timebandit said:


> They are called chucking reamers... http://www.use-enco.com/1/1/79327-4-flute-solid-carbide-252-sol-carbide-dec-reamer.html



Justin, do you find that the converters are consistent enough in diameter that this size reamer works on all of them?


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## Timebandit (May 23, 2012)

dow said:


> Timebandit said:
> 
> 
> > They are called chucking reamers...
> ...



All of the ones that i have used yes. But i also only use the gold premium Schmidt converters. They slide in like glass. Before, with just the .25" bit, there was just a little bit of resistance when inserting the converter. This is a very thin area of the section and i dont want any tension on it. That .002 makes a huge difference.


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## Gilrock (May 23, 2012)

Yeah I've only done about 4 or 5 sections and I went through this learning curve.  At first I had no reamer and I found my 1/4" drill bits were all 0.002" to 0.003" shy of 0.25" making them too tight and I did crack one trying to force it.  I got the next one to work by how I tighten my tailstock...I can apply a little pressure to right and cause a slight offset to the drill bit.  It worked but not how I really wanted to do it.  I did one using the next size up drill bit I could find in my 115 bit set...can't remember but it was either 0.263" or 0.267".  The oversized hole worked fine but a little more play than you need.  I recently got the Enco 0.252" reamer...I think the same one Justin linked above.  I drill with the 0.25" bit and then follow it with the reamer.  When using the reamer for some reason the way it's constructed it makes a sound making you think the section is going to rip apart but the hole it makes works perfect.

Enco - Guaranteed Lowest Prices on Machinery, Tools and Shop Supplies


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## dow (May 23, 2012)

Cool.

Thanks!


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## glycerine (May 23, 2012)

Lynn, what I am doing for my first "kitless" is making an "eyedropper".  This is a fountain pen that doesn't use a cartridge or converter and the ink just goes directly into the body of the pen (usually inserted with an eydropper, hence the name).  This way, you don't have to worry about getting that hole exactly right... just something to try if you don't have the equipment and could use bottled ink instead of cartridges.


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## InvisibleMan (May 23, 2012)

I'm using a small round file to take the last little bit out of the back of the section.  It isn't very precise, though.  I'm going to get a drill of some sort to help.


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## Curly (May 23, 2012)

So far I've used an "F" drill bit. The .257 - .252 = .005 bigger. Less than the thickness of a sheet of printer paper wrapped inside the hole.


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## LL Woodworks (May 23, 2012)

Thanks everyone for your input.

Gil - I know what you mean - I've cracked two sections already. Fortunately they were of scrap material practicing.

Justin - Thanks for the link reference

Peter - I may try the "F" bit till I get the reamer.

Thanks all - now I can continue the journey


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## watch_art (May 23, 2012)

I use the J bit and never have problems.  Fits snug but not too tight, not loose at all.


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## Texatdurango (May 23, 2012)

LL Woodworks said:


> I'm slowly working my way though the process of kitless FP making. Have followed several of the tutorials in the library and a few videos on Youtube.  A couple of these resources use a .252" reamer on the tennon end of the grip section to get the converter to seat properly.
> 
> I don't have one and haven't been able to locate one.  I was wondering , do all you FP makers use a reamer on the grip section?  Is there another method?
> 
> As always I appreciate the advise and wisdom.


Lynn,

The .252" size is indeed the perfect size to allow a snug fit for the converters out there.  I tried at least a dozen different brands and types of converters and a .252" hole will work for everything I have tried.

I used a reamer because I already had one from back in my aircrafting days _BUT_....... that was before I bought a metric set of bits ad the 6.4mm bit does the trick as well so before investing big bucks in a .252 reamer that you will likely never use for anything else, I would look into a 6.4mm bit as an alternative.

I mentioned the .252" reamer in a tutorial I did last year before finding the set of metric drill bits and realizing the 6.4mm was perfect and now wish I could go back and edit the tutorial because it's got lots of folks searching for the expensive reamer when they don't need to be.

Just another opinion


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## Texatdurango (May 23, 2012)

Personally I think suggesting drills larger than .252" is bad advice and here is my thinking.....

To each their own but to me, the whole purpose of drilling a .252" hole in the section is to allow the section to actually grab the nipple of a converter by creating a slight friction fit.  

Simply relying on the converter nipple to snap into the feed tip and hold the converter in place during daily use is just asking for trouble and is a poor pen design. 

The typical converter nipple is .252" dia and a hole smaller will likely cause you to crack a thin area of the section trying to force the converter in and a hole any larger, even a few thousandths, *will not hold the converter in place and keep it from coming "unplugged" from the feed during daily use!*  Will larger holes allow the converter to slide into the section easier.... of course, but that's not the purpose of the .252" hole plus every thousandth of an inch larger hole will create just that much thinner of a wall between the hole and the outer threads, the part of the section which already is the weakest area of the section.


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## Curly (May 23, 2012)

I am curious if anyone has some commercially made pens from the big guys, that could measure the same area of their sections that take cartridges and converters. I wonder if they make them to hold the outside of the converter snugly or do they rely on the nipple only? Perhaps that would suggest the dimensions we should be playing with.


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## LL Woodworks (May 23, 2012)

Thanks George  I agree completely and have discovered this to be the most fragile area of the process. I want to get this area RIGHT before moving on.  I have referenced your tutorial, along with others, in an attempt to gain an understanding of the process.  My intent is to get a set of metric drill bits to go with the letter, number and std bits I already have.  However I did find the .252 reamer for $17.95 at the link Justin provided so that isn't to bad.

Thanks for the help


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## Texatdurango (May 23, 2012)

Curly said:


> I am curious if anyone has some commercially made pens from the big guys, that could measure the same area of their sections that take cartridges and converters. I wonder if they make them to hold the outside of the converter snugly or do they rely on the nipple only? Perhaps that would suggest the dimensions we should be playing with.



Where do you think I came up with the idea to begin with?  I checked several "real" pens such as my Lamy, Conklin, Parker, Eversharp and Noodlers pens, all of which use a snug friction fit around the converters.


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## IPD_Mr (May 23, 2012)

Texatdurango said:


> Curly said:
> 
> 
> > I am curious if anyone has some commercially made pens from the big guys, that could measure the same area of their sections that take cartridges and converters. I wonder if they make them to hold the outside of the converter snugly or do they rely on the nipple only? Perhaps that would suggest the dimensions we should be playing with.
> ...


 
None of my commercially made pens use a converter.  :frown:


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## Texatdurango (May 23, 2012)

IPD_Mr said:


> None of my commercially made pens use a converter.  :frown:


That's because you have all those fancy schmancy vintage pens! :tongue:
Us poor folks have to rely on the newer pens available.  My latest is a Conklin I bought a few months ago.  What a piece of junk this thing turned out to be, so much for the famous NAME.


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## IPD_Mr (May 23, 2012)

Funny you should mention Conklin.  Were were looking at some of their Mark Twains and the colors were hideous!


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## LL Woodworks (May 23, 2012)

IPD_Mr said:


> Texatdurango said:
> 
> 
> > Curly said:
> ...



Is the reamer needed for a cartridge fit?


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## Curly (May 23, 2012)

Texatdurango said:


> Curly said:
> 
> 
> > I am curious if anyone has some commercially made pens from the big guys, that could measure the same area of their sections that take cartridges and converters. I wonder if they make them to hold the outside of the converter snugly or do they rely on the nipple only? Perhaps that would suggest the dimensions we should be playing with.
> ...



I wasn't trying to challenge your knowledge ( which I respect) or research (hard to know what anyone has done on their own) only to find out what was commercially used. You've answered my question. 

Thanks


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## TomW (May 23, 2012)

Texatdurango said:


> LL Woodworks said:
> 
> 
> > and now wish I could go back and edit the tutorial because it's got lots of folks searching for the expensive reamer when they don't need to be.
> ...


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## Robert111 (May 24, 2012)

High Speed Steel Metric Jobber Length Drill Bits - from 1mm to 20mm.

6.4 drill bit
Cost=$1.60


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## Gilrock (May 24, 2012)

That $1.60 drill bit needs to be in a $25 minimum order plus shipping and then will probably measure out a couple thousanths too small.  I really think the reamers are machined to a better accuracy than the drill bits....and c'mon buying a single reamer is not expensive.


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