# Attempting SCAM?



## tim self (Oct 17, 2011)

I believe I've actually received my first website wanna buy scam. Sounded fine in the original E-mail so I informed I would need 50% down. This is his reply.

_Hi Tim_

_Thanks for your swift reply! I would like to go ahead in that case and ask you to make the pen for me! I'd like exactly the one in the picture on your website, so the posted version. And I'd go for a fine nib._

_I can pay the entire price to you right away. I reckon making one entire payment is easier than paying 50% now and the rest later. Can I pay you by direct bank payment? If you give me your bank name & address, your bank account name, account or IBAN number, and the BIC or SWIFT code, and if you can tell me what the shipping costs are, then I can pay you via e-banking. That should only take about 3 business days for the payment to arrive._

Opinions?


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## Drstrangefart (Oct 17, 2011)

I'd skip that one just to be safe. Try offering the PayPal option if you can, but that sounds pretty fishy. Will a lost sale hurt more than a cleaned out bank account?


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## TellicoTurning (Oct 17, 2011)

tim self said:


> I believe I've actually received my first website wanna buy scam. Sounded fine in the original E-mail so I informed I would need 50% down. This is his reply.
> 
> _Hi Tim_
> 
> ...



I love it when they "want to buy off my website" and start asking prices for items, shipping etc... all that info is on my site, I have a full page detailing how I sell.... I get one of these types of emails about once a month... haven't seen any money from one of them yet.


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## Akula (Oct 17, 2011)

Where is the "buyer" located?

IBANs (International Bank Account Numbers)

BIC (Bank Identifiers Code)

PASS!!!  I don't think US Banks use IBAN they are on SWIFT network


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## lorbay (Oct 17, 2011)

I had the same thing with a paypal deal on something I was selling on Graig's List and the person was at sea and could not come to see it but would send a broker over, just give me your paypal address and phone number and adddress. Yeh right. Oh and did I mention he said it was really easy to sign up for paypal and here is a link if you don't have one, again Yeh right.  Then 2 weeks later the same thing on something else I was selling but this time the person was an airline hostess.  Yeh right.

Lin.


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## Simplex (Oct 17, 2011)

no problem...let me get my bank account number for you.  Sheesh.  Sounds like something right off of Craigslist.


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## EarlD (Oct 17, 2011)

Tim, that's definitely a scam.  Wish we could zap 'em through the computer!


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## tim self (Oct 17, 2011)

yeah, a guy in Australia.

_49 Klewarra Boulevarde
Douglas 4814
Townsville, QLD
Australia_

BUT with that said, I received a response offering a CC in 2 emails so maybe not bad after all.


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## nava1uni (Oct 17, 2011)

At least you didn't send your info and then think about questioning the email.
When I was looking for a car there were lots of ads that I responded to and received more answers from military people(not real) who wanted me to send money and they would arrange for the car to be shipped to me and if I didn't like it they would refund my money. Yeah right.  Unfortunately there are people out there who don't question these kinds of things.


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## PenMan1 (Oct 17, 2011)

Tim.
NEVER take a certified check (I assume that's what you mean by CC). They are counterfitted more often than Rolex watches and Mont Blanc Pens.

I recommend that you use google earth to find this address (to make sure that it is not in the middle of the sea), then verify that the owner of record IS your customer. THEN get the IP header from the sent e-mail address and make sure that the Ip corresponds to the area of his residence.

IF that information corresponds to the information he gave you, use either PayPal (yes, he can PayPal from down under) or use a Bank of America, BankCorp, Chase or Citi credit card. Make SURE TO GET THE CUSTOMER's 4 digit PIN for the credit card transaction, as this is a standard in almost everywhere abroad, now.

This ACTUALLY sounds legitimate to me, BUT do those things to protect yourself. DAMHIKT!


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## Akula (Oct 18, 2011)

PenMan1 said:


> Tim.
> NEVER take a certified check (I assume that's what you mean by CC). They are counterfitted more often than Rolex watches and Mont Blanc Pens.
> 
> I recommend that you use google earth to find this address (to make sure that it is not in the middle of the sea), then verify that the owner of record IS your customer. THEN get the IP header from the sent e-mail address and make sure that the Ip corresponds to the area of his residence.
> ...



you have people give out their pin?


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## Holz Mechaniker (Oct 18, 2011)

if it looks like poo, smells like poo.  chances are it is poo.


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## Smitty37 (Oct 18, 2011)

*International Payment*

Tim, You can agree to PayPal and if he wants he can send an e-check via PayPal. That is probably the safest route but it ain't perfect. However since all your dealing with is a pen and he is not asking you to send him money you are probably as safe as you ever are.

Any buyer of anything you sell via PayPal or credit card can submit a claim of non-receipt or item substantially not as advertised. On paypal the buyer almost always wins such claims regardless of whether they are domestic or foreign (but they must return the item to get their money back). That being said there is such a thing as being too careful.

I usually tell people I will accept PayPal or insturments drawn on US Banks and that I won't ship until the insturment has completely cleared which might take two weeks or more.


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## PenMan1 (Oct 18, 2011)

Smitty37 said:


> Tim, You can agree to PayPal and if he wants he can send an e-check via PayPal. That is probably the safest route but it ain't perfect. However since all your dealing with is a pen and he is not asking you to send him money you are probably as safe as you ever are.
> 
> Any buyer of anything you sell via PayPal or credit card can submit a claim of non-receipt or item substantially not as advertised. On paypal the buyer almost always wins such claims regardless of whether they are domestic or foreign (but they must return the item to get their money back). That being said there is such a thing as being too careful.
> 
> I usually tell people I will accept PayPal or insturments drawn on US Banks and that I won't ship until the insturment has completely cleared which might take two weeks or more.


 

Ditto


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## Smitty37 (Oct 18, 2011)

*not a pin*



Akula said:


> PenMan1 said:
> 
> 
> > Tim.
> ...


I think he meant the 3 digit security code on the back of their credit card - in theory you won't know that code unless you have the card in your hand. I would not let anyone record it if I was there in front of them in person.  There would be a 4 digit Pin associated with a debit card that the customer should refuse to give to anyone.


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## wolftat (Oct 18, 2011)

Folks, remember that if you sell pens (or anything else), you set the rules on how you get paid. If your payment policy is not agreeable for the customer then pass on the deal and allow them to find someone else that they can deal with their way. If a deal feels wrong to you, stay away from it.


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## PenMan1 (Oct 18, 2011)

Smitty37 said:


> Akula said:
> 
> 
> > PenMan1 said:
> ...


 
NO, I mean a four digit PIN (some contries use a 5 or 6 digit PIN). In most every other country other than U.S.A., Cards also have at least a 4 digit PIN. Most EVERY European bank offers a "virtual" PIN system, where the buyer or the bank will issue ONE PIN number for ONE transaction of $XXX.

This will change from "standard practice" to law in most European contries, starting in January 2012. For more information, got to www.clarkhoward.com and look for using credit cards internationally. AND, funny this is, those countires have virtually NO issues with identy theft.

Additionally, If you plan a European trip in the future, MAKE SURE to have YOUR Credit card company issue YOU at least one International PIN, otherwise, you'll pay a fortune in "bank and Government" fees to use your credit card abroad.


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## KBs Pensnmore (Oct 18, 2011)

You could always ask someone from "Down under near there" to check this person out????? 
Kryn


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## Smitty37 (Oct 18, 2011)

*Sorry*



PenMan1 said:


> Smitty37 said:
> 
> 
> > Akula said:
> ...


 
Sorry I didn't consider credit cards issued against foreign banks. I personally have never even seen one...I sell a lot international but only accept paypal and PayPal processes credit cards for me. (I'm not sure that I have my PayPal set up to accept non-USA cards or not).


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## Russianwolf (Oct 18, 2011)

If they can use the info requested in the original email for anything I'll be surprised

Every invoice I generate for my day job has all that info right on it. Those invoices are transmitted all over the world including some of the most corrupt countries in the world (SE Asia is bad for corruption). We have never had an issue with this info. 

If he doesn't have a paypal account, he can still pay by credit card without sending the info to you. Send a paypal request to his email. These is a link in the request to pay via credit card if they don't have a paypal account. Works like a charm.


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## THarvey (Oct 18, 2011)

tim self said:


> yeah, a guy in Australia.
> 
> _49 Klewarra Boulevarde
> Douglas 4814
> ...



I still sugget you avoid the banking option.  The international fees for IBAN & SWIFT reciepts would be $30 - $40, depending on your bank.  Paypal is a lot less expensive for payment under $1000.  Plus, Paypals currency exchange is as good or better than any bank I deal with.


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## jcm71 (Oct 18, 2011)

Definitely a scam.  Tell him to sit on his nib.


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## diamundgem (Oct 18, 2011)

Ho ,Ho, Ho .  I am Santa Clause,  Give me your bank account number and I will bring you all kinds of gifts  (an empty your account)


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## diamundgem (Oct 18, 2011)

Me again,   I have been trying to sell 24 rolls of gold on Craigs list. I just wish you could see the scam deals I have received from so called buyers. If I could get my hands on their neck, things would change


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## bradh (Oct 18, 2011)

+1 on the IP trace. I have had many inquiries that sounded good but the IP address traced to Nigeria.


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## Haynie (Oct 18, 2011)

google earth says it is a house.  

If you want some fun look up all the scam baiting sites.  These guys totally lead the scammers on.


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## Padre (Oct 18, 2011)

Scam, scam, scam.


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## tim self (Oct 18, 2011)

Well, the customer did provide me with all the credit cardd info including 3 cvv.  Home of record is Switzerland and low and behold the card was declined.  I told them to pay through paypal with the card.  Takes me out of the loop til payment is received.


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## Smitty37 (Oct 18, 2011)

*Yep*

True, and I think you can also stipulate at PayPal or to the buyer that payment must be in USD.  Keep in mind that if it is tagged as being for goods there is an additional paypal fee of about 1 1/2% for payment originating outside the USA --- I keep forgetting that when I'm dealing with Canadians.


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## Smitty37 (Oct 18, 2011)

*Surprise*



diamundgem said:


> Me again, I have been trying to sell 24 rolls of gold on Craigs list. I just wish you could see the scam deals I have received from so called buyers. If I could get my hands on their neck, things would change


  I'm surprised they aren't all scammers there.


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## keithkarl2007 (Oct 18, 2011)

Whats funny is that I get paid for items here in Ireland by the method suggested in the first post. All that info is no good unless you know the persons pin number.


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## tim self (Oct 18, 2011)

Well a brightened update.  Sent the customer an invoice and she's paid it through paypal.  She didn't know she could use the CC just for payment, thought it had to be her bank funds.


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## keithkarl2007 (Oct 18, 2011)

Your swift code is your Bank's Branch I.D. He or she wanted your account number to transfer the funds over to your account. Even with your account number and swift code they couldn't take funds from your account.


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## PenMan1 (Oct 18, 2011)

tim self said:


> Well a brightened update. Sent the customer an invoice and she's paid it through paypal. She didn't know she could use the CC just for payment, thought it had to be her bank funds.


 
Congratulations, TIM!!!!!!:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

I told you it sounded legit to me. NOW, you are an INTERNATIONAL PEN ARTIST! Good feeling, huh?

The U.S. doesn't use 'swift codes" or PIN numbers for credit card transactions, so the Europeans don't really know how to deal with us. Sounds like your Suisse customer just wanted a MADE in USA pen!


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## Trillium (Oct 18, 2011)

You could always offer to send him a hand written receipt prior to his cash payment that preceeds your shipping his pen.


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## tim self (Oct 18, 2011)

PenMan1 said:


> tim self said:
> 
> 
> > Well a brightened update. Sent the customer an invoice and she's paid it through paypal. She didn't know she could use the CC just for payment, thought it had to be her bank funds.
> ...



Yes sir it does!!:biggrin:  Not to mention it's my FIRST web sale and didn't even flinch at the price.  That makes it better.


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## patmurris (Oct 20, 2011)

It seems to me there is quiet a bit of confusion regarding what someone can do with an account number - this is not a credit card number. It is standard practice for companies to give their bank and account numbers to regular customers so that they can transfer money to them instead of sending checks for instance.


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## Phillyjer (Oct 20, 2011)

I work in the banking industry and can tell you this is definitely a SCAM. *DO NOT REPLY OR PROVIDE ANY PERSONAL INFORMATION.*

There are many other payment options such as paypal which are far safer and much more secure.


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## Smitty37 (Oct 20, 2011)

*Hmmmmm*



Phillyjer said:


> I work in the banking industry and can tell you this is definitely a SCAM. *DO NOT REPLY OR PROVIDE ANY PERSONAL INFORMATION.*
> 
> There are many other payment options such as paypal which are far safer and much more secure.


You must not have read the whole thread - it was not a scam and the deal was closed successfully.


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