# Insulted



## gerryr (Sep 6, 2007)

I, unfortunately, belong to a wood turning club here.  I was the secretary until the president insulted me for the last time a few months ago.  I resigned and haven't been to a meeting since.  I have to go this month to take a couple of videos back and give the current secretary some junk that I inherited when I was elected.  On more than one occasion when I was still active, I told the chair of the presentation committee that if they wanted a demo on penturning I would be glad to do one.  I don't turn bowls or vases, just pens, so I was thanked politely and that was it.  There are maybe 2-3 members of the club who make pens, all slimlines with no finish.  I showed off my DCE recessed clip El Toro at a meeting after I finished and people just scratched their heads.

Anyway, I wanted to see where they were meeting this month because it seems to change a lot and checked the club's website.  Found the location and also the fact that someone is going to demonstrate pen turning at the meeting, but it sure isn't me.  My plan was always to just return the videos to the library, hand off the secretary junk and leave.  I think I will stick to my plan.  Plus, I will save a whopping $35 next year by not joining again.


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## clewless (Sep 6, 2007)

Go to the meeting, smile, stick around, only leave when you're ready, life's too short to be throttled by one persons poor attitude...besides you might be able to answer a question or two.[]


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## Fritz (Sep 6, 2007)

Make sure you bring a couple of your pens to the meeting... just in case... After you're done answering questions []

Fritz


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## Stevej72 (Sep 6, 2007)

Gerry, I've been trying to get to one of their meetings for some time as I thought I may get some help with the skew from them.  I've been out of town on meeting nights so haven't made it.

I have had similar experience with ham radio clubs and R/C airplane clubs in the past and have no desire to join another.  

Thanks for sharing your experience, I think I will stay away.  Although it would be interesting to go and see their little demo.


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## wdcav1952 (Sep 6, 2007)

Gerry,

The Hell with them.  Life is too short to voluntarily pay to associate with those who show your talents no respect.

Blunt, I know.


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## Dario (Sep 6, 2007)

> _Originally posted by wdcav1952_
> <br />Gerry,
> 
> The Hell with them.  Life is too short to voluntarily pay to associate with those who show your talents no respect.
> ...



I am with Cav on this 100%. []


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## Mudder (Sep 6, 2007)

> _Originally posted by wdcav1952_
> <br />Gerry,
> 
> The Hell with them.  Life is too short to voluntarily pay to associate with those who show your talents no respect.
> ...



Cav,

I'm shocked!

A man with your grasp of the English language.

I believe that the proper term is " To  Hell with them".


(Ed told me to hold the fort while he is not here)[}]


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## karlkuehn (Sep 6, 2007)

Hmmmm, I'd probably do the same thing you're doing, with a side-inclination to go to the demo and pose some interesting points about more complex pen making issues, but that's petty and small.

The right thing to do would be to approach the person who offended you and assertively state your feelings without waffling to passive-aggression or direct aggression, but that's hard to do when the other party's not good at communication. Most people put up defenses and act like that sort of assertion is a direct attack if it's not approached properly. 

Good interpersonal communication is a toughy. No one likes rejection and getting their feelings hurt. I feel for you, and I'm sorry you have to go through this in an atmosphere that's supposed to be enjoyable. Makes you feel all icky. []


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## OKLAHOMAN (Sep 6, 2007)

Damn I just have to agree with Cav and Dario but I would carry it one step further, no way would I go to them to give back anything, I would mail it all back along with my membership card. 





> _Originally posted by wdcav1952_
> <br />Gerry,
> 
> The Hell with them.  Life is too short to voluntarily pay to associate with those who show your talents no respect.
> ...


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## wdcav1952 (Sep 6, 2007)

> _Originally posted by Mudder_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...



Shoot, I think you are better than Ed.  That's no real compliment, I know! []

"...adults are just obsolete children, and the hell with them."
Theodor Seuss Geisel 

I guess I should broaden my literary horizons. [][]


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## leehljp (Sep 6, 2007)

Gerry, Steve,

With the two of you, you can start your local pen turning club and put up advertisements in hobby and wood places. Make it along a theme of professional pen turning; list the different types of construction such as working with segments, straight, burls, acrylics, castings, etc. Different types of finish. Include a pict or two of a finely done pen. You probably would not need more than 30 - 50 to hit the spots that such people hang out.

It would gnaw on the wood turning club a tad.  [}]


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## Mudder (Sep 6, 2007)

> _Originally posted by wdcav1952_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...



Ahhh,

But just because you can show me a couple examples of the atrocities committed to the English language by a Google search does not mean that you should overlook the fact that you failed to structure your sentence using proper grammar! Mother would have smacked you with the yardstick and we both know it. []

Shame, shame, Everbody knows your name [:0]


(Hey Ed, I've got him on the ropes. You can step in now and handle the light work, I've got to get up early tomorrow)

But I will supply my friend Cav with some very fine reading material:

http://www.morebusiness.com/running_your_business/businessbits/v3n6.brc


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## fstepanski (Sep 6, 2007)

Gerry,
My 37 cents as I don't know all the details... 

First insults are just unprofessional..  For a club officer, President no less to insult a fellow board member, completely unaccpetable.  Have you tried to take it off line with him mono-mono and ask What gives?

I don't get along with everyone in my club, I don't agree with everyone in my club, I don't miss a single meeting, as the 95% I do get along with, and do see eye-to-eye with are just plane super folks!!  

I've taken several very uncalled for shots in the face, been pretty ticked at times, however, as a norm I have a good time at every meeting.   

I'd say hit the meeting.  It's obvious by the photos in your album you have this pen turning thing down pat..  Share some of your work.  Closed in pens, truestone, recessed clip, I can't beleive you will not generate some "Man, how did you to that" comments....  

Best of luck either way...  and to echo not-so clewless "life is too short"

Oh, the new Secretary .


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## GaryMGg (Sep 6, 2007)

> _Originally posted by Mudder_
> ... Mother would have smacked you with the yardstick and we both know it. []
> Shame, shame, Everbody knows your name [:0]


Amongst this humorous stuff were these extremely funny lines. 
My eyes are still watering. Where've I been all my life -- I never heard those before.
[] [][]


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## Randy_ (Sep 6, 2007)

I'm assuming there is more to the story than we are seeing here??  If it were a club I enjoyed being a part of, I d**m sure wouldn't let one jerk run me off.  I'm a little puzzled why you didn't confront the jerk instead of letting him run you off??


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## TellicoTurning (Sep 6, 2007)

Gerry,
You could always go the meeting and heckle the demonstrator  [][][}][}]


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## gerryr (Sep 6, 2007)

To everyone, thanks.  This, however is not just one person.  The attitude of the vast majority of the members who attend meetings about pens is "oh yea, I did those when I was first learning, but now I make bowls, boxes, vases, etc."  I've taken closed end pens, glueups and even once I made the mistake of taking a non-wood pen - that didn't go over with anyone because it's a woodturning club.  The president and I have had words, and he's told me that I really need to advance my skills and turn something besides pens.  He was not however interested in discussing how much money he makes selling bowls compared to how much I make selling pens.  There are one or two exceptions in the club, but they can't make up for the rest.

I am a bit tempted to take one of my copies of the current issue of Stylus magazine to the meeting and show it to whoever is doing the demo.  But, if it's who I think it is, he won't get it.  I would mail the stuff back except it would cost a lot more money than driving to the meeting.


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## bjackman (Sep 6, 2007)

You could even make it easier on yourself and make the items freely available for them to pick up at the place of your choosing.....between 2:46 am and 2:47 am on any given 5th sunday in the month of February which falls on a full moon.  [}] (no need to be difficult)


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## gerryr (Sep 6, 2007)

Bill, you are an evil person.[}]  But I like it.[]


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## karlkuehn (Sep 7, 2007)

> _Originally posted by gerryr_
> <br />To everyone, thanks.  This, however is not just one person.  The attitude of the vast majority of the members who attend meetings about pens is "oh yea, I did those when I was first learning, but now I make bowls, boxes, vases, etc."  I've taken closed end pens, glueups and even once I made the mistake of taking a non-wood pen - that didn't go over with anyone because it's a woodturning club.  The president and I have had words, and he's told me that I really need to advance my skills and turn something besides pens.  He was not however interested in discussing how much money he makes selling bowls compared to how much I make selling pens.  There are one or two exceptions in the club, but they can't make up for the rest.
> 
> I am a bit tempted to take one of my copies of the current issue of Stylus magazine to the meeting and show it to whoever is doing the demo.  But, if it's who I think it is, he won't get it.  I would mail the stuff back except it would cost a lot more money than driving to the meeting.



Wow, that sounds like a bunch of hoity toity knuckleheads. Good riddance. You can just enjoy your time here with rest of us 'low-level skill' types.

*best Baby Huey impression* "Hey Pa, could I hammer the nail? Pleeeease?"

You ought to turn a quick bowl with some nifty inclusions or something simple but pretty, take it in and let them know that you're moving on to more complicated things, like doorstops and chia pets. Mu-hah! Did I mention that I tend to lean towards petty?


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## wdcav1952 (Sep 7, 2007)

> _Originally posted by Mudder_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...



On the ropes?!?!?!  Heck, I am looking up at the ropes through blurred vision!  Ed, please come back; this damn Yankee is  MEAN!! [][:I][]


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## alamocdc (Sep 7, 2007)

> _Originally posted by Mudder_
> Ahhh,
> 
> But just because you can show me a couple examples of the atrocities committed to the English language by a Google search does not mean that you should overlook the fact that you failed to structure your sentence using proper grammar! Mother would have smacked you with the yardstick and we both know it. []



OMG, Scott, you're killin' me! ROTFLMAO You should be ashamed of yourself... kickin' a guy when he's down.[}][]

But you have to admit, Cav, he's right. Sorry, buddy![]


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## ed4copies (Sep 7, 2007)

<b><center>WOW</center></b>

I missed this thread!!!

This "Mudder" guy has some REAL hidden TALENTS!!!

"On the ropes!!!"   NO, my friend, Cav is on the FLOOR, start the count!!!

Ya' got him in tears, Scott!!!  

I'm just gonna sit back and admire your excellent "wordmanship" (not a typo)!!!!!

Cav is tough, tho'!  We know him to get all "Googly-eyed"[8D][8D][8D] whenever he gets in trouble - so keep him on the mat!!![][][]

<b><center>"RE-ENGAGE!!!"</center></b>


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## Mudder (Sep 7, 2007)

My apologies Gerry,

I'm guilty of hijacking your post and carrying it far out into the weeds. [V]

I'm sorry that the folks in your club do not know talent & skill when they see it. I have had similar instances in my club and I have resigned from the board of directors because of it. Kind of a funny story here. Our club took up a collection of donated items to be sold off and the proceeds were to be donated to the Katrina victims. The call for donations came out in the newsletter right after the storm. I donated 5 pens and they were the only pens donated. Other folks donated bowls, plates, stoppers, turned stools, mug racks, and a variety of other turned items. There were some comments made when I presented my donation and I said that we will see who has the last laugh when the items are sold and we see they go for. One of the guys in the club took the stuff to a craft show that his wife participates in and the only things that sold at the show were my pens! As you can imagine there were quite a few red faces at the next meeting when the sales were announced and I made sure that I had a barb or two for the folks that made comments the prior month and I asked for an apology from the board. Two members were so humiliated by this that they took their turned item back and made a cash donation equal to what they thought their item was worth. To the best of my knowledge, some of the items donated were never sold.

Gerry; Please do not let those who are short of sight, and narrow of mind get to you. Do not let them have the satisfaction of knowing that they drove you away. It will be their loss.


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## GBusardo (Sep 7, 2007)

I agree with Cav, Dario  for sure, but this sounds like a great idea!



> _Originally posted by leehljp_
> <br />Gerry, Steve,
> 
> With the two of you, you can start your local pen turning club and put up advertisements in hobby and wood places. Make it along a theme of professional pen turning; list the different types of construction such as working with segments, straight, burls, acrylics, castings, etc. Different types of finish. Include a pict or two of a finely done pen. You probably would not need more than 30 - 50 to hit the spots that such people hang out.
> ...


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## wdcav1952 (Sep 7, 2007)

Mudder, you kicked the crap out of me and left me bleeding on the floor and you apologise to GERRY?!?!?!?!?!!????[:0][]


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## gerryr (Sep 7, 2007)

Actually, I doubt that starting a penturning club would bother any of them, if they even noticed.  They view pens as something you do only until you learn how to do "better" things.  I'm not usually a joiner of clubs that have meetings, but I joined this one because I really thought, based on comments here and other places, that I would really learn something by joining a local woodturning club.  Unfortunately, that turned out not to be the case.  I'm over it, and probably won't even waste my time going to the meeting.  I have better things to do, like make pens, play with my new camera lens, play with the dogs, build a new light box, etc.

Scott, no need to apologize for "hijacking" the thread.  I know it was all in fun, which is what the posts in CC are mostly about anyway.  I've never seen Cav so totally flummoxed before.[:0][:0][}]


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## karlkuehn (Sep 7, 2007)

> _Originally posted by gerryr_...  I've never seen Cav so totally flummoxed before.[:0][:0][}]



Hey Cav, you got any flummox burl I can swap you for? Also, I hear spalted clobber is kind of interesting, so if you've got any of that left... Also, let me know if you're interested in some of this curly pummel I picked up this week...[]


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## ed4copies (Sep 7, 2007)

Gerry,

It may be fodder for a new thread, but I have frequently considered starting a "Pen-turners" club, apart from the AAW.  I have been to a few of their meetings and left thinking, "My god, they sure know a thousand ways to say, 'That's a very pretty bowl (vase)!'"  The local club members no longer stop at my craft show booth to tell me HOW to do BETTER.  Last one that did, I mentioned there was booth space available and I hoped he would be right next to me at the next show.  That way, we could compare receipts at the end of the show.  OF course, he informed me his turnings were NOT for SALE, they were TOO GOOD.  This led to one of my favorite comebacks, "Well, you certainly are a LEGEND in your OWN MIND!!!"  Either put your talents on the open market or don't criticize mine, you don't have the CREDENTIALS!!!

Sorry, a little off the point, but a pen-turners' group seems like a really neat idea, whatcha' think???


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## jnelson (Sep 7, 2007)

Gerry,

I am a relative newcomer to the site, but have an additional suggestion.

I had a friend who broke of an engagement once.  His ex-fiancee continously left motes on his car, and just woudl not take a hint.  Finally , he packaged all of her notes, letters, and pictures and sent them back.  POSTAGE DUE!

Return the videos, but make it an inconvenience for the small-minded twits who cannot appreciate the true art of any properly turned and finished object.

Just my thoughts...


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## Ron Mc (Sep 7, 2007)

I have fallen victim to this type of ridiculous way of thinking on several occasions from bowl turners. When I see a bowl turner looking at my segmented pens in an exhibition with that typical "THAT"S IT?" look my standard course of action is to approach them and ask if they do segmented turning. Luckily most have said yes and I ask to see their items. They always walk me to their segmented turnings with their head high and chest puffed and point them out.
I will spend a few moments looking at their work and then let them know that I look forward to the day that I can't see well enough to make segmented pens any more and decide to work with segments 100 times the size of mine.


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## alamocdc (Sep 7, 2007)

> _Originally posted by Ron Mc_
> <br />I will spend a few moments looking at their work and then let them know that I look forward to the day that I can't see well enough to make segmented pens any more and decide to work with segments 100 times the size of mine.



That's just COLD, Ron! But I LOVE it![]


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## gerryr (Sep 7, 2007)

It's funny, but I have done a local juried show for the last two years and it's pretty well attended.  Last year I was the only person selling turnings of any kind and I never saw anyone from the local club.  This year there was a woodturner from Oregon who had some really nice bowls and hollow forms.  He stopped by my booth a couple of times and he was very complimentary.  He said he tried doing pens but gave it up because it was too precise and difficult.  Go figure.  And I didn't see anyone from the local club again this year.


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## Stevej72 (Sep 7, 2007)

> _Originally posted by Ron Mc_
> <br /> They always walk me to their segmented turnings with their head high and chest puffed and point them out.
> I will spend a few moments looking at their work and then let them know that I look forward to the day that I can't see well enough to make segmented pens any more and decide to work with segments 100 times the size of mine.



After reading this and some of the other comments I think I will have to go to the next meeting and see how they react to me as a penturner. I don't know, I may be able to stir up some trouble and have fun if I have some comments prepared like Ron's.


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## palmermethod (Sep 7, 2007)

Mail the stuff to them or have them pick it up. Don't go, don't confront, don't waste your time. You're certainly appreciated here and the suggestion you start your own penturning club sounds good. Life is too good to waste on losers.


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## mdburn_em (Sep 8, 2007)

Gerry, you trouble-maker...

I've got to be different.  

Treat them like you wish they would have treated you.


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## mdburn_em (Sep 8, 2007)

> _Originally posted by mdburn_em_
> <br />Gerry, you trouble-maker...
> 
> I've got to be different.
> ...



Oh, yeah, who knows what kind of rif-raf you might attract from 300 miles away if you have a pen-turners club...


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## underdog (Sep 9, 2007)

Gerry,

That's really too bad. I wish it had been different for you. 

I've not posted much here lately, and haven't turned very many pens, but I've learned a ton from you guys. I enjoy just perusing the latest you guys have to offer. I have to say, I'm amazed at the diversity and creativity shown here. I was wondering today how to do those plastic castings and intend to do a little research. I was also wondering if we couldn't borrow some ideas from other casting industries... but back on topic.

In my mind pen turning is just as valid as any other turning.. I suppose some people might look down on spindle turning or treenware turning as well as penturning, but I really get a bang out of making utilitarian stuff as well as making "Art". There's no reason not to put as much skill and attention into these items as you put into formal "Art" pieces. I find I get as much satisfaction out of using my well turned pen every day (well _I_ think it is), as looking at a well turned hollow form that I see in a gallery. This attention to detail elevates the practical item from the merely mundane and utilitarian, to a valuable and treasured heirloom, if not outright art.

That being said, I've had my differences with a couple of our club members, but overall, my club experience has been pretty positive. I volunteered to write our club newsletter at the third meeting, and gave it my all. Even if I do say so myself, it's a good newsletter and fortunately it was well received. (Shameless plug - Hey we even got several mentions in this falls AAW Journal!) As much as I have contributed, I have gained back tenfold. I am weary of the newsletter now after several years, and I intend to retire from that position, and contribute in some other way. 

I find it very unfortunate that your club didn't see fit to benefit from _your_ skills and contribution. Even our more cantankerous members have had something to offer. (Heck, I might even _be_ one of those more cantankerous members![]) Find some way to share those skills with someone.. it's always more fun that way.


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## whatwoodido (Sep 13, 2007)

Gerry-
  Our president took it upon himself to decide I and a fellow club member that teach for one of the local counties, wouldn't mind if the club did its youth outreach programs in our classroom while we were teaching our woodturning classes (pens, bowls, stools, etc.).  He sent an e-mail to a group of people announcing his idea without even discussing it with us first.  I wasn't even a recipient of the e-mail, I found out because the other instructor was one of the e-mail recipients.  We would probably have gotten reprimanded or fired if we had allowed it.  

  If you like your fellow members go back to the meetings, yours isn't the only club with a bad president. 

Drew


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## redfishsc (Sep 15, 2007)

> _Originally posted by ozmandus_
> <br />Gerry,
> You could always go the meeting and heckle the demonstrator  [][][}][}]




Now THAT sounds like fun!


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## redfishsc (Sep 15, 2007)

> <br />
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## GaryMGg (Sep 15, 2007)

> _Originally posted by redfishsc_
> ...the subject of the verb is usually follows the "by"....



Speaking of grammatically incorrect.
Yeah, I know it's just structural decision change in midstream but what the Kahoutek. [][]


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## Mudder (Sep 15, 2007)

> _Originally posted by redfishsc_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...


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## Fred (Sep 15, 2007)

To quote REDFISHSC, "When the past tense of "commit" is followed in a sentence by the word "by", the subject of the verb is usually follows the "by". "

Like the Geico caveman says, "Say what?" [}]

Gerry, load up your pockets with the absolute best pens you have ever made and go to the meeting. Be sure to ask about the application of CA as a finish, etc. Just put them on the spot. Have a bit of fun at their expense and then walk out and don't ever look back. You are better off being with this bunch of great folks here at IAP any day. And it don't cost you nothing to be here either!!!


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## palmermethod (Sep 17, 2007)

Your club problem is one of philosophy rather than craftsmanship. It sounds like the quality of work is less important the journey. Quantity of experience instead of expert craftsmanship. Hey, this sounds like a Zen thing. Is it the trip or the destination?

Regarding having an intelligent discussion about your viewpoints, forget it. At best it would divide the group and worst a continuing hassle. They either "get it" or they don't.


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## gerryr (Sep 17, 2007)

The meeting was last week and I had other more important things to do, like make pens, play with my camera, you get the idea.  I really was going to return those two videos, but.....[}]

It's over, it's finished and it's the last time I join anything that has even irregular meetings.


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## vick (Sep 17, 2007)

Sorry your experience was so bad with your club.  I joined my local club about a year 1/2 ago and have really enjoyed it.  Not very much snobbery at all and you have people that will be supportive and give honest critiques at the same time (which I find rare).
With that being said if you are not enjoying being part of the group don't go this is supposed to be a fun activity.  I would say rise above and get the video's back to them.  Even if some are jerks their might be a good guy that would like to watch it.  If your turning interests is just pens I doubt with the level you are at you would get much out of the club anyways.


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## bjackman (Sep 17, 2007)

> _Originally posted by gerryr_
> 
> It's over, it's finished and it's the last time I join anything that has even irregular meetings.



Guess that means we won't be seeing you in Provo this June? [B)]


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## gerryr (Sep 17, 2007)

Provo doesn't qualify as a meeting.[]


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