# Are there other group buys worth doing?



## Dan Masshardt (Dec 3, 2013)

Be been a part of a couple of the craft supplies group buys.  They are definitely worthwhile.  

I've seen some talk about ordering kits directly from the manufacturer, but are there other group buys that would make sense?

It seems like shipping along with paypal fees are the biggest deterrent to more group buys.


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## ed4copies (Dec 3, 2013)

If you order direct from the manufacturer, you will also encounter Customs and importing fees and laws.


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## edicehouse (Dec 3, 2013)

Isn't it also a case of where you make your order today and get it in 4 months?  (on some of them?)


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## Dan Masshardt (Dec 3, 2013)

Right.   I guess I'm wondering if there are USA sellers worth doing a group buy from?  

Seems like for a local club it would be.


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## maxwell_smart007 (Dec 3, 2013)

Dan Masshardt said:


> Right.   I guess I'm wondering if there are USA sellers worth doing a group buy from?
> 
> Seems like for a local club it would be.



Before the IAP vendors started carrying kits from overseas, there used to be a fair number of group buys from places like Rizheng and just about every US vendor - that trend sort of fell by the wayside, as the group buys would get to be thousands of dollars, and a massive undertaking to organize. 

I don't think customs was often a big issue (takes a bit of time, and sometimes costs money)- but you do have to be prepared to wait for the kits - much like Smitty has with his preproduction sales, where he places the order now, and you get them when they arrive in the US.


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## edstreet (Dec 3, 2013)

When I look at these 'group buys' on IAP here I see lots of wasted effort and wasted potential.  There are plenty of subjects that are skipped over like some white elephant in the room.  Also the every problem of customs is quite easily to remove entirely from the equation.


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## LagniappeRob (Dec 3, 2013)

As someone new to doing one myself, it is a bit of work...

General steps:
1. post announcement & take signups.
2. get back spreadsheets an check them for missing info 
3. If they want insurance - calculate it
4. Get paypal payments
5. Place order(s) - if you've got a pp debit card, there is a daily limit. (Even my little buy easily exceeded that).
   a - Email combined spreadsheet(s)
   b - get invoice back
   c - check invoice against order ss.
   d -  call and pay for invoice 
   e - wait 24 hours if and do it again if the combines was too much $ for pp debit card.
6.  Receive package(s)
   - compare package contents and cross check against the packing list
7. Divide package(s)
   - I made 1 box for each buyer, pulled items out, found them on the combined ss and divided them up, crossing them off as I went.
8. Cross check each buyer's box against original spreadsheet.
   -  I made 1 mistake where I put a bag of kits into the wrong box, this was the only way I'd have caught it.
9.  Seal them up with enough name on the outside to know who they belong too
   - if they're small enough, re-box to SFRB
10. Print/pay for postage.
    - Note:  Regional Rate boxes are only available from USPS, Endicia (I think) and Stamps.com.  None of those work with my label printer I usually use. So I had to print 1/2 page "labels" and tape them on the RR boxes.
11. Reconcile the invoices to the SS's (some prices changed it looks like)
12. Reconcile shipping costs to the SS's
   -  Send refunds or request for additional $ as required.

It's not easy, but not that complicated either....


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## LagniappeRob (Dec 3, 2013)

edstreet said:


> When I look at these 'group buys' on IAP here I see lots of wasted effort and wasted potential.  ...



Care to elaborate?


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## Monty (Dec 3, 2013)

edstreet said:


> When I look at these 'group buys' on IAP here I see lots of wasted effort and wasted potential.  There are plenty of subjects that are skipped over like some white elephant in the room.  Also the every problem of customs is quite easily to remove entirely from the equation.





LagniappeRob said:


> edstreet said:
> 
> 
> > When I look at these 'group buys' on IAP here I see lots of wasted effort and wasted potential.  ...
> ...


I too wish you would elaborate on this.


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## edstreet (Dec 3, 2013)

Monty said:


> LagniappeRob said:
> 
> 
> > Care to elaborate?
> ...





LagniappeRob said:


> Care to elaborate?



Elaborate on what part specifically of what I said?  I thought I was detailed enough in what I was trying to say but I will be glad to go into more detail.


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## Monty (Dec 3, 2013)

Monty said:


> edstreet said:
> 
> 
> > When I look at these 'group buys' on IAP here I see lots of wasted effort and wasted potential.  There are plenty of subjects that are skipped over like some white elephant in the room.  Also the every problem of customs is quite easily to remove entirely from the equation.
> ...





edstreet said:


> Monty said:
> 
> 
> > LagniappeRob said:
> ...


Please give examples of what I have highlighted in red. Any input that would make a GB easier is always welcome.


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## edstreet (Dec 3, 2013)

Monty said:


> Monty said:
> 
> 
> > edstreet said:
> ...





OK.

Wasted potential as in things that should be going on with group buys but are not.  Group buying going thru retail outlets is not that good of a potential when in fact with the group effort that this community is capable of you should be dealing directly with non-retail markets because it has became very crystal clear that dealing with retail markets has serious limitations and they discourage group buys.

Subjects, as in tooling, upgrades, new items, improved parts, supplies.  Oh and lets not forget about threads like this http://www.penturners.org/forum/f102/turning-smocks-colors-110229/#post1534297 where some of us actually has been waiting for 7 months.  To be limited on buying potential via a large group is a gross and sad state to be in.  You could talk to all the vendors individually then look at what was said then come up with several products that would be the same for all vendors yet exclusive and unique to each vendor.  You can then do group buy bulk orders and those products would be heavy top sellers.

The white elephant is about all the 'vendors' who want to go it alone in reflection of these group buys.  While group buys are indeed very good there are many avenues that the community SHOULD be taking in order to help encourage these 'vendors' to group together.  What I see happening is bulk alienation of users and competition among the vendors which grossly discourages good healthy innovation in the industry.

Customs,  I don't know how else to lay it out without writing a novel to say it but buying anywhere that customs is not involved is a win no matter how you look at the problems that customs throws into the nightmare.  Knowing that you can get the same quality, same cost but less BS with customs out of the picture is just epic win.  When you buy like that customs is null and void.

So put all this together and at the end of the day you find it's common knowledge of some very trivial concepts yet so revolutionary some call it a paradigm shift.

Buy direct from manufactures with the community setting the standards and designs as to what is needed.  Will be cleaner, easier, cheaper and more market pull.  No I am not talking about buying directly from places like Dayacom, China, Taiwan or the like nor is this a 'buy US' junk spill either.

Sorry about the novel and I hope this helps clear things up for you.


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## Monty (Dec 4, 2013)

edstreet said:


> OK.
> 
> Wasted potential as in things that should be going on with group buys but are not.  Group buying going thru retail outlets is not that good of a potential when in fact with the group effort that this community is capable of you should be dealing directly with non-retail markets because it has became very crystal clear that dealing with retail markets has serious limitations and they discourage group buys.
> 
> ...


ED,
You make some valid points and I would like to discuss them further with you. Like I posted previously, any way to encourage more Buys and make them simpler is always welcome. If you would like to, please PM me your phone number and the best time to call.


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