# Pen Jaws or Spigot jaws for lathe



## SawdustHappy (Nov 16, 2017)

Hey Guys,
I am planning to get some extra jaws to help me hold the blank and keep it dead center for drilling the blanks. As I have had some drift issues with my drill press. 

The Pen jaws I have seen at rockler are only 2 jaws, but seem pretty beefy. But I am wondering if the set of 4 spigot jaws isnt better, as it would hold the blank on all 4 corners?

Thanks again for all your help! 
Sawdust Happy


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## RSQWhite (Nov 16, 2017)

Pen jaws are probably better. Blanks would have to be round or perfectly square for four jaws to hold them properly. 


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## Woodchipper (Nov 16, 2017)

I have the pen jaws for a Nova chuck.  Had all kinds of problems so I went back to the drill press. JMHO.


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## SawdustHappy (Nov 16, 2017)

Woodchipper said:


> I have the pen jaws for a Nova chuck.  Had all kinds of problems so I went back to the drill press. JMHO.



Was it really that bad? I may try to work it out with my drill press then.

Thanks!


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## SawdustHappy (Nov 16, 2017)

RSQWhite said:


> Pen jaws are probably better. Blanks would have to be round or perfectly square for four jaws to hold them properly.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Penturners.org mobile app



I have had pretty good luck getting irregular shapes between 4 jaws. I am just wondering if anyone has tried them and their feedback vs a drill press.


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## gtriever (Nov 16, 2017)

The PSI dedicated pen chuck is what I use, and I have no complaints.


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## preacherman (Nov 16, 2017)

I use four jaw chuck to drill most of mine. I have had good luck with odd shape blanks with this method. The only time I use the drill press is to drill to make certain that I can drill and keep some of the curve of antler blanks or knot or some feature of the blank that drilling off center requires.


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## Mr Vic (Nov 16, 2017)

I've been happy with the Nova Pen Jaws.


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## Pierre--- (Nov 16, 2017)

I am a long jaws fan. If you chuck on the edges of a blank and tight the jaws, it is the better grip you can dream of, it will hold badly squared pieces, rectangular sections, as far as the edges are more or less parallel, like with the pen jaws. But most of the time you have four jaws instead of two when you are dealing with regular or slightly irregular blanks. 
More important, when the barrel is nearly achieved or even totally finished, I often have to work the section (for a recess or to hide a clip for instance), so I wrap the barrel in paper and I grab it in the long jaws with a light hand: the diameter of the pen is a bit bigger than the ID of the jaws, so there is absolutely no mark on bare wood nor on CA finish. 
For really irregular blanks, you need anyway a spring chuck to bring it to the round, and then to long jaws where again for are better than two!


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## budnder (Nov 16, 2017)

You might also consider using collets to hold the blank. That does require the blank to be round before drilling, but you're going to turn it round anyway, so not that much of an extra step.


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## jttheclockman (Nov 16, 2017)

Another post I can answer while I am here voting on my mug and shirt. I see Roy has given the true answer. Best way to drill a true hole is to turn the blank round and drill it using a collet chuck. If you insist on other type of chuck the pen jaws is that answer. Can hold odd shape blanks much better than 4 jaw chuck. 4 jaw chucks are also handy for other things so may want to get those too. Spend the money. You only live once.


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## TattooedTurner (Nov 16, 2017)

My Nova pen jaws have performed flawlessly, and I prefer the length for getting a good grip on pen blanks. With only two jaws they hold warped burl blanks without a problem.


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## SawdustHappy (Nov 16, 2017)

Which collet chuck would you recommend? Google is not being helpful at all. I am going to swing by rockler tomorrow and look at the Nova Pen chucks. And I will see if they collet chucks as well.


I found this collet chuck:

https://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/101/4400/Apprentice-Collet-Chuck-7-Piece-Set

Is that what you were thinking? for 90 bucks, and I can do detail work that much easier, I may be sold!

Thanks,


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## TattooedTurner (Nov 16, 2017)

I have that chuck/collet set and it's a great buy IMO.


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## alankulwicki7 (Nov 16, 2017)

I’ve drilled a lot of blanks of various shapes and sizes with the mini spigot jaws and never had a problem. They are very versatile and I use them for many things where the pen jaws are meant for one thing only.


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## Woodchipper (Nov 17, 2017)

If a pen blank isn't perfectly square, it will "wobble" in the pen jaws.  I found if I drilled to the end of the quill and withdrew the bit, the hole was enlarged when i reinserted the bit.  I found if I left the bit in the blank and advanced the tailstock, the hole came out OK.  But.........I found, unless I was doing a lot of blanks as production, it took too much time to change chucks, turn the blank to round, etc.  I have drill press setup that is ready to go.  Ed Brown, Exotic Blanks, has a video and he aligns the blank with the bit, clamps it and drills away!  I need to take a photo of my setup for the forum.


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## Charlie_W (Nov 17, 2017)

SawdustHappy said:


> Which collet chuck would you recommend? Google is not being helpful at all. I am going to swing by rockler tomorrow and look at the Nova Pen chucks. And I will see if they collet chucks as well.
> 
> 
> I found this collet chuck:
> ...



The Beall collet chuck is a great addition to any lathe. I recommend buying the collet chuck body and the. Buy a metric set of collets on amazon. My set gives me 2mm-20mm by millimeters instead of the five in the Beall set.

Turn the blanks round, mount in collet, face the end square and dimple with a starter bit or a skew to help your bit start without wandering.


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## fernhills (Nov 17, 2017)

I use a collet chuck whenever i can. If i have enough blank length to turn them to 3/4" first. Sometimes i just make it and lots of times i have plenty of length. Carl


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## eharri446 (Nov 17, 2017)

A while back, it was discussed about turning the blank round using a drive center and a live center and then drilling the blank.

The drive center mentioned was similar to this one:  https://www.woodcraft.com/products/woodriver-multi-tooth-drive-center-5-8-diameter-2-mt

I have done it a few times with an odd ball shaped piece of wood and it works well. 

I used the Nova Pen Plus jaws and have not had a problem clamping a blank, whether it was square, rectangular, round, or oblong; it held them all securely.


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## Beautys_Beast (Nov 17, 2017)

I have the economy chuck from PSI.  
This one.
https://www.pennstateind.com/store/CUG3418CCX.html

And I use these jaws
https://www.pennstateind.com/store/CJAWPEN.html

I have never had an issue, and despite multiple attempts to drill on my cheap drill press, It is impossible for me to do.  I have no issues with this set of jaws, even with unsquare blanks.


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## magpens (Nov 17, 2017)

You know, this subject comes up quite often.

I don't use a wood turning lathe, so maybe someone can tell me why my method won't work on one.

On my metal working lathe, I first turn the blank round between centers.
I know that is possible on a wood turning lathe too.

Then I grip the rounded blank in the headstock chuck and drill a nicely centered axial  hole.

Maybe that is the part which is more difficult to do on a wood turning lathe.

But I would have thought that you could grip the round blank end with the inner jaws of the wood turning headstock chuck.

Should be easy to center it, because both end centers are marked from the TBC process. You can accurately center the blank by putting a pointed pin in your tailstock live center and grip the blank aligned to the axis.  It may overhang quite a bit, but you can do this separately with each half of your blank to reduce the overhang.

And then you can drill, gripping the drill bit in your tailstock Jacobs chuck, starting very carefully.  Once you get the hole 1/4" deep or so, there is not much further care needed.

So why does anyone with a wood turning lathe need to buy special chuck jaws for drilling ??? . As long as you have a headstock chuck you are good to go, and everyone needs a headstock chuck.

Or is it true that most wood turning chucks will not grip the end of a dowel as small as 3/4" diameter ?

Tell me what I am missing.


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## Dale Allen (Nov 17, 2017)

Mal, you are exactly correct and that is my process as well.
However, I don't have a metal lathe (yet :biggrin and I do the same thing on my HF 32" wood lathe.  I get holes that are within .002" of dead center.
There is one additional step that I  take that involves a dial indicator.
I turn the stock round and even over the length.
Then I sand it down to where it is real smooth.  Then when I grip it in the scroll chuck, I make sure the end to be drilled is running true to center by using the dial indicator.
Sometimes I also dimple the end so most of the drill bit end taper enters at the same time.
One thing that will throw all this off is the variations of hardness within the wood.  That will also sometimes make it more challenging to get the stock to spin on center.
Going very slow when the bit first enters the stock and holding the tail stock quill tight with the jamb screw is also a necessity, at least until the bit has entered about 1/4".
If the stock does not stay spinning at the same position when the bit is extracted, game over.  It will wobble and vibrate and you will end up with a very strange looking hole that is neither round nor straight.


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## budnder (Nov 17, 2017)

I originally purchased the er32 5 collet set from PSI that included a chuck, and then got the 2mm to 20mm 20 piece metric set of er32 collets off of ebay. I used the collets so much, I decided to upgrade after a year or so and got the Beale chuck. I really like it quite a bit better than the PSI one. I also found I never really used the PSI collets as the metric set had enough size variety for whatever I was doing.

The only other collet I picked up was an 21mm one, which I use quite often for things that are a fat 3/4". That's about the max size for er32.

So if I had to do it all over again, I'd get the er32 Beale chuck, the ebay metric set, and add a 21mm from ebay also.


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## magpens (Nov 18, 2017)

Please clarify something for me, Roy.

I have long had the opinion that the PSI collet chuck set is not ER32 so I did not buy it.

If you are quite sure it is a true ER32, I would appreciate your confirming that please.


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## MTViper (Nov 18, 2017)

I have both Nova PIN jaws (4) and PEN jaws (2) for my Supernova II chuck.  I've drilled bunches of blanks that were square, round, or odd sized/shaped and had good luck with each.  Best luck consistently was with the PEN jaws.  I only use my drill press to drill blanks that require some type of special handling or won't fit in the PEN jaws.


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## KenV (Nov 18, 2017)

magpens said:


> Please clarify something for me, Roy.
> 
> I have long had the opinion that the PSI collet chuck set is not ER32 so I did not buy it.
> 
> If you are quite sure it is a true ER32, I would appreciate your confirming that please.




The difference between the PSI and CUSA collet chuck is the threading.  PSI is up to 1 by 8 (and 3/4 by 16) and CUSA is 1 1/4 by 8 (and 1 b 8)    Both use ER32 collets

Woodriver collet chucks from Woodcraft are not ER series.

Beale has ER32 and ER50 chuck bodies for sale


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## mark james (Nov 18, 2017)

Charlie_W said:


> SawdustHappy said:
> 
> 
> > Which collet chuck would you recommend? Google is not being helpful at all. I am going to swing by rockler tomorrow and look at the Nova Pen chucks. And I will see if they collet chucks as well.
> ...




I'll agree with Charlie - Buy the full set!  I use mine more often than I would ever have imagined.


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## budnder (Nov 19, 2017)

magpens said:


> Please clarify something for me, Roy.
> 
> I have long had the opinion that the PSI collet chuck set is not ER32 so I did not buy it.
> 
> If you are quite sure it is a true ER32, I would appreciate your confirming that please.



I think it is - I used it with the the er32 metric set with no issues.


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## magpens (Nov 19, 2017)

Thanks Roy and thanks Ken.

For some reason I thought that the PSI collet set was proprietary and "weird".
I see from their website that they claim ER32 compatibility.
Perhaps they have had a change since I last looked.


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## PenPal (Nov 19, 2017)

Since the 1980,s I have used prismatic jaws (bought from Grizzly in the US) as a pair in my X Y controlled vice on my bench drill.I threw away the taiwanese motor fitted a one HP Australian made motor in the bench drill.

Went through and replaced the bearings on the drill press (great improvement). Fitted a quality drill chuck held in place by a threaded rod.

The pic I just found shows how I use the jaws in the horizontal Vee to clean out and lightly ream the blank after glue up. The vertical Vees take care of any misshapen blanks (I am always chasing grain).

That said later years obtained a Vicmarc two jaw chuck with chuck combined for small accurate turning of small cut square timber for Lace Bobbins etc. This covers all bases for me. I have a few sets of Collets ,love them also, courses for horses.


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## randyrls (Nov 19, 2017)

Eduardo;  I would check to see if the collets are a standard type like ER32.  If so you can get collets cheaply on Ebay.  Get a full set of METRIC collets.  The fractional sets have gaps in the clamping ranges above 1/2".   The clamping range on an ER32 collet is 1/16" smaller than the specified size.  Collets come in an array of alphabet soup sizes, some more common than others.

Hope this helps. 



SawdustHappy said:


> Which collet chuck would you recommend? Google is not being helpful at all. I am going to swing by rockler tomorrow and look at the Nova Pen chucks. And I will see if they collet chucks as well.
> 
> 
> I found this collet chuck:
> ...


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## Thud 54963 (Nov 19, 2017)

I have used both the 4 and 2 jaw devices. I seem to get better centered holes on the two jaw chucks. Both are better than my 20 year old Craftsman drill press. 


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## Spinzwood (Nov 22, 2017)

Here is a thought.  I doubt if the type of chuck jaws make much of a difference, I've had good luck with 4 jaws as well as 2 jaws.  My "theory" with chuck mounted wood is that the center of the wood is essentially not turning (the closer to the center the slower it is turning in f/m, mm/m what have you.. so on a "molecular level" it is not spinning)  Therefore, you need a good starting point.  I have not experienced bring a drill up to a rotating piece and not having the tip wander away from the center, even if only a mm or two.  Once started off center the entrance will be a bit larger in diameter and the exit hole will be off center by "x" amount.

While it is a bit more of a pain, I always spot drill my blank with either a stubby drill or a combo drill (https://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tn...f3t7VjUaKWydovxYIscIJ-9AdkU9br0kaAhg1EALw_wcB )  Hope that link works.  If not, Google "centering drill bit".

These bits are short and stout and will not "walk" off center.  A good starting point will go a long way in helping you drill aligned holes that are not out of round or enlarged on the entrance end, IMHO


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## MRDucks2 (Nov 22, 2017)

Thanks for “bit” of info, Bill. Been working on better centering and haven’t overcome the wondering bit on all woods. Will try one of the centering bits. 


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## Spinzwood (Nov 22, 2017)

The nice thing about those bits is that they are ground to 60°.. so, good for turning between centers as well.. for other things.  They are a bit expensive.. but, you should never have a problem with breakage.. nor, should you ever have a problem with dulling in wood or acrylic.. unless you hit a sand inclusion.. even then, these bits are so rigid they should power in, no matter what.

Here is a set from McMaster... Not bad for 5 bits:
https://www.mcmaster.com/#center-drill-bits/=1adbots

Or, for stubby's, also at McMaster.. Possibly the 3/16 might be a good choice with 118° point.. ??
https://www.mcmaster.com/#stub-length-drill-bits/=1adbqm0

All that said, my choice would be the countersink starting drills based on beef.

another option which wold be free, would be to use the toe of your skew if you are comfortable.  That should give you a great centered starting point.  I use my skew.. but, I really prefer to use my countersink bit.


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