# Well...I thought I achieved scratch-free....



## TonyL (Apr 1, 2014)

Until I made a solid black pen.:frown: 

Oh well, twenty-five pens does make one an expert. I have made significant progress since my start three weeks ago today. However, I was humbled by a $3.50, solid black acrylic blank. Well, my dad will love it and I doubt he will hold it up to a magnified light and rotate it .

The quest continues....


On the bright side, I sold my first pen, I can now accompany my wife to the nail salon and not notice a smell, and I have stopped bending mandrels (thanks to the advice of many here).  

Have a good night/day depending on where you are!


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## Tom T (Apr 1, 2014)

Awesome news, you are obviously totally hooked.


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## Dan Masshardt (Apr 1, 2014)

Solid black is one of the toughest to get scratch free.


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## Gary Beasley (Apr 1, 2014)

Good going! You just need to find some finer grits.


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## TonyL (Apr 1, 2014)

I am glad that I am not the only one (solid black woes)!

As far as totally hooked.....I need to make more friends or start handing out pens to strangers. LOL. 

I am actually getting bored with the sanding. I can see why folks use the HSS tools. You can only goes so fast with the carbide (at least that has been my experience). I will not be buying HSS tools anytime soon, but I said that about a lathe.

Despite the size of my home...every room has pens in it, blanks, blanks pieces, glue, paint, pen kits stray bushings,, used mandrels etc..  I married a saint! She loves that I love making pens. And half-dozen other hobbies. I was walking around my house earlier with my safety glasses over my prescription lenses! I have also gotten used walking-up in the morning with what I am sure is acrylic dust in my eyes .
I am having fun and met some great folks here and in-person. I oldman5050 a visit.


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## TonyL (Apr 1, 2014)

*Finer grits*



Gary Beasley said:


> Good going! You just need to find some finer grits.


 

Hi Gary: I have you to thank for setting the scratch-free standard. I have the flawless black barrel you made in my top draw. Maybe, I need a diamond dust wheel. My last step is the Barry Gross blue rouge system.

Have a good one!


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## WriteON (Apr 1, 2014)

Congrats on your first sale. You will now be able to buy more pens to sell more pens to buy more pens. :biggrin:


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## eranox (Apr 1, 2014)

I'm so glad that you are enjoying pen turning so much.  Having a supportive spouse definitely makes the hobby more enjoyable and the lessons less frustrating!  I can't wait to see more of your work!


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## jokker78 (Apr 1, 2014)

I hate sanding also, I sand really fast . Makes the work faster


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## Allen_B (Apr 1, 2014)

I turned my third ebony pen and felt the same way. I've got enough to "practice" with so I'm going to try to get it right. I'm hoping I can get it before my blanks for 30 pens run out. LOL.


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## plantman (Apr 2, 2014)

Remember Tony, every step you take forward is two less steps you have to take the next time. Glad you enjoy pen turning !! A word of wisdom. Don't try to see how many or how fast you can make pens. It will quickly burn you out. Try to improve the pen your are working on now from the last one you made. Slow and easy, think out every phase before you do it. Try something a lttle different now and than. Segmenting, casting blanks, stableizing, or going kitless. Watch the videos here on site or on youtube to see the methods that other people use to obtain the same end results. If you have questions, just ask, one or more members here will have an answer for you. As far as finishing a black blank, these would be the methods I have used. If its plastic or resin, Turn to size, stop the lathe, hand sand lengthways 220/ clean with tac rag / 900 / clean with tac rag, / 1200 / Clean with tac rag / restart lathe in high speed / use One-Step or some other plastic polish to bring blank to a sratch free shine. If I am turning Ebony, I will use the same sanding method, then, with the lathe running fast,  buff with a brown buffing compound, white buffing compound, than a Carnuba or good auto polish. Even though I have the mm and sanding pads, I always sand lengthways, by hand, with the lathe off. This way I don't leave the fine scratches around the blank, and the bare hand is the best tool for finding any trouble spots on your blank.  Have fun !!   Jim  S


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## TimS124 (Apr 2, 2014)

I picked up safety glasses with built-in magnifiers...they look like bifocals and that lower section can be any of several magnifications.  

They're very handy for checking whether or not your pen parts are truly scratch-free before pulling them off the lathe!

Another thing that helps is a trick from traditional hand planing...low-angle light!  I have a lamp with a flexible neck that sits on my lathe's headstock.  It projects good light while turning and is easily repositioned to cast a low-angle light during scratch-inspections.

Between the booster lenses and the low-angle light, scratches are far rarer these days on finished items.


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## TonyL (Apr 2, 2014)

All great feedback. I haven't "turned" anything that will impress anyone. I did buy a black, velvet necklace stand to use as a backdrop when photographing. However, I can't say that it does much for my camera-phone shots! I really am enjoying the hobby and fellowship. Have a great one folks!


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## TonyL (Apr 2, 2014)

*safety glasses with built-in magnifiers*



TimS124 said:


> I picked up safety glasses with built-in magnifiers...they look like bifocals and that lower section can be any of several magnifications.
> 
> They're very handy for checking whether or not your pen parts are truly scratch-free before pulling them off the lathe!
> 
> ...


 
I saw those and was wondering about them. I may need to add them to my collection of pen turning "stuff". Thank you.


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## TonyL (Apr 2, 2014)

*Remember Tony, every step you take forward*



plantman said:


> Remember Tony, every step you take forward is two less steps you have to take the next time. Glad you enjoy pen turning !! A word of wisdom. Don't try to see how many or how fast you can make pens. It will quickly burn you out. Try to improve the pen your are working on now from the last one you made. Slow and easy, think out every phase before you do it. Try something a lttle different now and than. Segmenting, casting blanks, stableizing, or going kitless. Watch the videos here on site or on youtube to see the methods that other people use to obtain the same end results. If you have questions, just ask, one or more members here will have an answer for you. As far as finishing a black blank, these would be the methods I have used. If its plastic or resin, Turn to size, stop the lathe, hand sand lengthways 220/ clean with tac rag / 900 / clean with tac rag, / 1200 / Clean with tac rag / restart lathe in high speed / use One-Step or some other plastic polish to bring blank to a sratch free shine. If I am turning Ebony, I will use the same sanding method, then, with the lathe running fast,  buff with a brown buffing compound, white buffing compound, than a Carnuba or good auto polish. Even though I have the mm and sanding pads, I always sand lengthways, by hand, with the lathe off. This way I don't leave the fine scratches around the blank, and the bare hand is the best tool for finding any trouble spots on your blank.  Have fun !!   Jim  S


 

Thank you Jim. I will try this.


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## BayouPenturner (Apr 2, 2014)

I have not done many black blanks, but I have found that I get a better finish if I wipe off the blank between grits so there are no abrasives from the previous sanding to scratch the  next sanding grit.

results are good on most acrylics


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## TonyL (Apr 2, 2014)

*Wipe off grits*



BayouPenturner said:


> I have not done many black blanks, but I have found that I get a better finish if I wipe off the blank between grits so there are no abrasives from the previous sanding to scratch the  next sanding grit.
> 
> results are good on most acrylics


 
Thanks Jim. I am wiping off grits with wet paper towels with the lathe stationery (off) so the paper towels don't add any scratches. I am going to add brighter light. Maybe, the pen is not as scratch-free as I think it is after turning it to size.

I also tried the length-wise sanding ( and witnessed other doing it). When I did it, it added scratches. I am sure it is ME. 

Thank you.


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## plantman (Apr 2, 2014)

Tony; I have a gooseneck lite clamped to my shelves above and behind my lathe about 18 inches high with the gooseneck being able to come as close to my blank as I want. When I am sanding or finishing a blank I turn this lite on, rotate the blank by hand, sand, and it will show up any trouble spots on the blank. As for the scratches from sanding, as you go up in grits they should go away. You could also start with a higher grit to begin with. Many people here will also wet sand their blanks when it comes to the finer grits. You should not see any shiney spots on your blank as you turn it by hand. You could also use MM pads and go all the way to 12,000 grit. I find that 1,200 is plenty because I spend more time in the sanding process than most turners. I found this method out by restoring and painting cars. If you want the best looking finish, spend more time in the prep work, it's worth it in the end.   Jim  S


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## Olsarge (Apr 2, 2014)

using a "light touch" when sanding helps.  I used to sand like I was mad at the blank and it showed.  Just a light touch will help.  Dennis


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## bjbear76 (Apr 2, 2014)

plantman said:


> Tony; I have a gooseneck lite clamped to my shelves above and behind my lathe about 18 inches high with the gooseneck being able to come as close to my blank as I want. When I am sanding or finishing a blank I turn this lite on, rotate the blank by hand, sand, and it will show up any trouble spots on the blank. As for the scratches from sanding, as you go up in grits they should go away. *You could also start with a higher grit to begin with.* Many people here will also wet sand their blanks when it comes to the finer grits. You should not see any shiney spots on your blank as you turn it by hand. You could also use MM pads and go all the way to 12,000 grit. I find that 1,200 is plenty because I spend more time in the sanding process than most turners. I found this method out by restoring and painting cars. If you want the best looking finish, spend more time in the prep work, it's worth it in the end.   Jim  S




I found this to be a big help getting rid of my scratches.  When I started turning, I was told to start with 100/120 grit and work my way up.  No matter what I did, I could never get rid of all the scratches.  Now I usually start with 320 grit; it has helped tremendously with scratches.  I also lightened up on the touch, let the sandpaper do the work.  Keep up the good work.


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## vakmere (Apr 2, 2014)

Would like to see what you have made so far. Radial scratches can be anoying however a skew will help reduce the height of those rings. Pen turning can be addictive.


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## TonyL (Apr 2, 2014)

Its' the radial scratches that I am talking about.  I will experiment with some auto polishes. I have Meguiars 105. 205. etc.


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## Charlie_W (Apr 2, 2014)

For acrylics or finishing CA, I wet sand with micro mesh using a separate cup of water for each two grits. Sand lengthwise by hand with each grit after sanding with the lathe on. I use a separate little strip of paper towel to wipe each grit. Usually on the last couple of grits, I wet sand only by hand lengthwise with the lathe off and wipe lengthwise. 
As far as plastic polish. Some are courser/grittier than others. I use the plastic polish from Barry Gross. I apply with my finger lengthwise without the lathe running. Let it dry and wipe lengthwise with a piece of cotton t-shirt. Sometimes, I repeat this step.
Buffing: I use the buffing wheels by Barry Gross with the blue compound bar. I only buff the blank lengthwise with compound and then the clean wheel. I then hand wipe with a clean cotton t-shirt rag.
If you noticed, I stopped radial sanding near the end and never turn the lathe on again. You don't want to keep putting radial,scratches on the blank as you go.
Use a digital eyeball to check for scratches. Take a digital pic and then blow it up. You will see a lot!

Hope this helps....time consuming but worth it. In you are trying to do production pens, forget everything I said. I am about quality...not quantity.

Now,Back to the shop!


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## Katsin (Apr 2, 2014)

bjbear76 said:


> plantman said:
> 
> 
> > When I started turning, I was told to start with 100/120 grit and work my way up.  No matter what I did, I could never get rid of all the scratches.  Now I usually start with 320 grit; it has helped tremendously with scratches.
> ...


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## TonyL (Apr 2, 2014)

Thank you both.


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## plantman (Apr 2, 2014)

TonyL said:


> Its' the radial scratches that I am talking about.  I will experiment with some auto polishes. I have Meguiars 105. 205. etc.



Tony; In order to remove radial scratches from a blank, I use a fine 6 inch metal file at fast speed on the lathe before sanding. This will remove the radial lines and level the surface. Your blank is higher on both sides of the scratch, and must be brought down level. Thats also why you should sand lengthwise with the power off to level the surface. It takes a little more work, but I am sure you will be pleased with the results. Unless a polish has some type of rubbing compound in it, it's not going to remove deeper scratches. Thats why I start out with buffing compound. Jim  S


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## TonyL (Apr 2, 2014)

Thank you Jim.

I just tried something new and couldn't see any scratches - although I think I am imaging them at this point .
I am eager to try this process on black acrylic.

Here's what I did:
Turned pen to size
Dry sanded from 240 to 600, removed grit dust with lightly moistened paper towel.
Wet MM up to Winnie Brown (3600, I think)
Blotted with paper towel.
Two applications of Meguiars 105, and then 205 (105 twice, then 205 twice) using a micro fiber towel (dry) - I think I bought 40 of them at Costco for detailing my cars.
All of the above was run at 1400 rpms ( don't remember why I picked that number)
I could not see any scratches at this point.
Lastly, I applied Rejex -  auto, boat and aircraft polish/wax-like stuff. The Rejex made the pen so smoothed, I am almost dropped it several time while assembling. It has to dry to a haze before removing it.

That was it. I have the B. Gross scratch remover and rouge system, but didn't need it after the Rejex. Tomorrow, I am going to try this on a dark red blank, then black.

I will see if it passes the black-test! I am not hopefully, but at least this pen came out without a visible scratch.

We will see!

Thanks for all of your input!


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## Twissy (Apr 2, 2014)

As you have a couple of "spare" mandrels Tony why not buy a couple of buffing wheels and turn down some spacer to make yourself a buffing system? I  go from skew to 400  then 600 abranet straight to the buffing system.


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## plano_harry (Apr 2, 2014)

Tony, your process description did not mention a common theme in a majority of the responses - careful longitudinal sanding with the lathe off at each grit, before wiping and advancing to the next grit.  If you are not doing this step, it will be very hard to get rid of radial scratches.  If you are doing the longitudinal sanding and getting scratches, switch to a quality material that won't scratch, such as abranet and keep it clear from clogging, also a lighter touch.  If you are using sandpaper with uneven grain sizes, you are always going to be dealing with scratches that the largest grain caused.  That is what used to take all my time correcting until I switched to abranet.


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## TonyL (Apr 2, 2014)

*I have the Barry Gross Buffing System*



Twissy said:


> As you have a couple of "spare" mandrels Tony why not buy a couple of buffing wheels and turn down some spacer to make yourself a buffing system? I  go from skew to 400  then 600 abranet straight to the buffing system.


 
I like the BG system, just trying something different. Thank you


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## TonyL (Apr 2, 2014)

*Longitudal Sanding*



plano_harry said:


> Tony, your process description did not mention a common theme in a majority of the responses - careful longitudinal sanding with the lathe off at each grit, before wiping and advancing to the next grit.  If you are not doing this step, it will be very hard to get rid of radial scratches.  If you are doing the longitudinal sanding and getting scratches, switch to a quality material that won't scratch, such as abranet and keep it clear from clogging, also a lighter touch.  If you are using sandpaper with uneven grain sizes, you are always going to be dealing with scratches that the largest grain caused.  That is what used to take all my time correcting until I switched to abranet.


 
I have abranet (part of the BG CA finish system) but never used it for longitudal sanding. I did perform longitudal sanding with the lathe on and off with 440 to 600 SP and I didn't get good results. No matter what I try, I am trying as a beginner (27 pens), so for me, it's hard to determine what is poor technique and what is a material issue (and what is both ).

When I did use the SP and MM in my above description, I did sanding in a circular fashion. I guess that approaches long. sanding. I am also applying the 105 and 205 auto polish long-ways , but with the lathe on.

Going to try this out tomorrow on red acrylic.

Thank you.


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## plano_harry (Apr 2, 2014)

Longitudinal sanding with the lathe running just produces a crosshatch.  While that is superior to a straight radial sand line, it does not achieve what you are hoping for.  We want any reflection on our pen to be lengthwise.  Straight sanding in this direction produces scratches (smaller and smaller) that line up lengthwise with the desired reflection and make the scratches disappear in the reflection of the light.  Circular scratches or random curves will cause the reflection to go in a less pleasing direction.  You cannot sand a straight lengthwise line with the blank rotating.  I hope that helps to clarify.


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## TonyL (Apr 2, 2014)

Ok...so far I am 2 for 2 (and this time I included longitudinal sanding as described above per Harry). No scratches under bright magnified light and no MM after Winnie color. I wnet right to Meguairs 105 twice, then 205, followed by Rejex. 

Tomorrow, I will use my transfer punch, and fix that black acrylic pen!

Oh yeh, next time I will also paint my brass tubes red, not pink when using a solid red blank! One day I will get in all right .


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## Quality Pen (Apr 23, 2014)

Good thread with lots of helpful advice!

Tony, how did that black pen turn out?


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## TonyL (Apr 23, 2014)

*Scratches*

Thanks for asking. I have now made over 10 pens using the method that I described in another post (and attached) among light and very dark colored blanks, I can't find a scratch with my "naked" eye and/or magnified LED light with the pens held at various angles to the light. In fact, yesterday, I experimented by not performing any longitudinal sanding with the 150 to 600 grit SP - still no scratches (that I can see anyway).

I have yet to use MM beyond teal (the one after the wine colored pad; I mistakenly referred to it as "Winnie" above) and have not used any buffing wheel (I do own the BG one).

Listen...I only have 30 pens or so under my belt, of which 10 I have finished this way (all have been AA blanks or softer). It either works or my eye sight is eroding. FWIW


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## Quality Pen (Apr 24, 2014)

Good point... any time I'm not happy with my finish I just take off my glasses and instantly my pens are scratch-free! What a relief!


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## mredburn (Apr 24, 2014)

Tony, its not the quantity of pens but the quality of each pen as you go.  A 100 pens poorly done does not advance your skills at all.


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