# PSI turncrafter lathe issue



## outfitter (Mar 1, 2009)

I have been turning pens for a couple months and continue to struggle with my blanks being out-of-round. I have since started to turn between centers, thanks JohnnyCNC! That helped quite a bit, but it's still not perfect. 

I have attached a short clip of my dead center and tailstock end to end, and you can see how the dead center rotates around the live center. Is this an issue with the spindle shaft, are the bearings bad? Any suggestions would help. I e-mailed PSI 10 days ago and received no reply. I would prefer to fix myself then have to send it in anyway!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ix1-YC0Mp8


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## leehljp (Mar 1, 2009)

I think it would be much better to call than to email. Keep a record of the call and to whom you talked, along with their suggestion.


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## ldb2000 (Mar 1, 2009)

Are you sure that your taper is clean , it would help if the video also showed the end of your spindle . Build up of wood dust and oils and waxes inside the taper will not allow the dead center to seat correctly .


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## outfitter (Mar 1, 2009)

Thanks for the reply guys. Yup, I tried cleaning the taper and no luck. I have 2 dead center and one live that I put in the head stockand all three rotate OOR.


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## ldb2000 (Mar 1, 2009)

Does the spindle look to be wobbling ? , if not the taper could have been drilled wrong . If thats the case the spindle will have to be replaced . Since you've had this problem from the beginning I would say you need a new spindle . You should replace the bearing's as long as you have it apart .


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## outfitter (Mar 1, 2009)

Good point Butch. I took a look at the bearings and both are 6005-2rs. Any recommendations on where to find reasonable replacements?


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## ldb2000 (Mar 1, 2009)

Try these guys , several people here use them for bearings   http://www.vxb.com/


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## NewLondon88 (Mar 1, 2009)

outfitter said:


> Good point Butch. I took a look at the bearings and both are 6005-2rs. Any recommendations on where to find reasonable replacements?



I think I replaced my spindle and bearings for around $30. Took about a half
hour, but that was because I was cleaning as I went. Could do it now in
about 5 minutes.

From watching the video, it looks like the dead center isn't seating properly.
Since it is a friction fit, it CAN be inserted canted at an angle. A clean
center in a clean spindle is less likely to allow that.. but you say you've
cleaned both. I agree with Butch, seems like the spindle may not be
drilled out concentric. Not sure how that would happen, but if the spindle
were bent, it would probably never get installed in the bearings to begin
with.


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## outfitter (Mar 2, 2009)

I spent some more time cleaning and really looking closely at my lathe. I think that I may have found my problem. Approximately 1 3/4" inside of the headstock spindle there is a rib that runs about 1/3 of the way around on the inside headstock. I used a straight dental pick tool and slowly inserted it in and probed around. It didn't take long until I found this and looked closely with a flash light and it is clearly visible. The dead center does not seat properly and may be the issue I have been having.

Now I have to wait and find out if this is the real problem and if PSI will replace the part!


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## NewLondon88 (Mar 2, 2009)

wow .. must be a fairly substantial rib to hit the taper that far into the spindle..
but anything that stops the center from seating square will give you an OOR...
I'd grab another spindle either way.. they're not expensive. If PSI sends you one,
you've got a spare in case something happens. and if they don't, you've already
got your replacement..

Either way, good to know what's giving you the trouble..


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## outfitter (Mar 8, 2009)

Well, the problem continues. I received a reply from PSI customer service that "Joe" from PSI's technical staff would contact me to help trouble shoot my problem. Tue, Wed, Thu, Fri no call. I called Fri, was after hours since I work all day and received their voicemail.

I work in retail and so I can sympathise with them, but this is becoming very frustrating! It has been 17 days since I have contacted and received nothing more than a quick reply that help is on the way. Not good customer service in my book.

I will attach a few more videos shortly. Maybe you guys can help.


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## xmaddchillx (Mar 8, 2009)

I just purchased a lathe from them. I really can't say I know a damn thing about lathes still but I have the same problem like yours. I just haven't investigated further yet.


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## outfitter (Mar 8, 2009)

This is the first lathe that I have ever owned, so I headed up to the local Woodcraft and compared the fit and finish of other lathes. I took my dead center to see how it fit. The video below shows the dead center in my lathe. I put it in tight, and it still wiggles. There is alot of vibration and is not smooth when I turn on the lathe. Sorry about the video, not the best at displaying the problem. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAP7izXMw8g


The dead center I brought to Woodcraft was kind of loose on a Jet mini, but perfect and snug on a Rikon mini. So maybe the issue is not with the spindle- but it does not explain the OOR issues and vibration. Example- The closer that I am to the headstock my tool kind of bounces off of the piece. The farther away that I get the smoother it is.


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## NewLondon88 (Mar 8, 2009)

wow. That's just wrong!
That dead center should go in easily and fit tight enough that you should
need to knock it out with the bar. Shouldn't be any play at all.
No wonder you're having trouble.

And the farther you get from the parts that wobble, the smoother it
would get, just as you describe.


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## rjwolfe3 (Mar 8, 2009)

Wow I must have gotten lucky, I have the same lathe for about a year now with no problems at all.  I hope they take care of ya soon.


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## jhudson1977 (Mar 23, 2009)

Outfitter,

I'm in the same boat.  My lathe from PSI (Turncrafter Pro) is doing the exact same thing.  I've looked at the bearings and they are the same part number.  Have you purchased any replacements?  Also, is there something that needs to be done to take the bearings out easier.  I really had to beat the holy hell out of mine to get them out!


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## Randy_ (Mar 24, 2009)

jhudson1977 said:


> Outfitter,
> 
> I'm in the same boat. My lathe from PSI (Turncrafter Pro) is doing the exact same thing. I've looked at the bearings and they are the same part number. Have you purchased any replacements? Also, is there something that needs to be done to take the bearings out easier. I really had to beat the holy hell out of mine to get them out!


 
They should probably just slide in and out.  Pounding on them like that will ruin them.  I hope you were more gentle reinstalling them or you are going to have another problem in the near future.


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## Randy_ (Mar 24, 2009)

Neither of the YouTube videos that outfitter posted would play for me.
 
Anyone else have that problem??
 
I tried a couple of other videos just to be sure it wasn't me and they played just fine???


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## Randy_ (Mar 24, 2009)

leehljp said:


> I think it would be much better to call than to email. Keep a record of the call and to whom you talked, along with their suggestion.


 
Personally, I think each of you guys are half right.
 
A phone call will usually get you faster service and there is always the satisfaction of talking to a real person....... assuming they know what they are talking about, which is not always the case.
 
But phone calls are easily lost or "overlooked" if you have to leave a message so it is always good to send an email and leave a "paper trail."  If you need to document the date of an inquiry for warranty purposes, it is nice to have an email on record.
 
Hence, when you suspect there will be a service issue, it would really be best to do both!!:wink:


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## jhudson1977 (Mar 24, 2009)

Randy_ said:


> They should probably just slide in and out. Pounding on them like that will ruin them. I hope you were more gentle reinstalling them or you are going to have another problem in the near future.


 
I fully agree that they should "just slide in and out".  However, they don't and yes, my bearings are hosed (making the clickity clack sound) and I have more coming now.  I'm not too worried about that as I was planning on getting new bearings any ways.  Pens were coming out OOR, the mandrel was all over the place and all pretty much like Outfitters problems.  Banging them back home just made it worse and pretty much confirmed that my original problem was in the bearings.

However, I'm now at the point where I want to do this stuff right this time before I destroy two more bearings.  The one bearing closest to the head stock I will need to hammer to get off as it is on the spindle nice and tight.  Are these supposed to be on this tight?  I understand that there should be some interference fit going on but this is insane.  I hesitate to take an emery cloth to the surfaces to make an irreversible problem but it seems as if I almost have to.  All I know is that a hammer is the only thing that got those bearings in and out of there the first time and I can only expect the same thing this next time.


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## Randy_ (Mar 24, 2009)

jhudson1977 said:


> .....However, I'm now at the point where I want to do this stuff right this time before I destroy two more bearings. The one bearing closest to the head stock I will need to hammer to get off as it is on the spindle nice and tight. Are these supposed to be on this tight? I understand that there should be some interference fit going on but this is insane. I hesitate to take an emery cloth to the surfaces to make an irreversible problem but it seems as if I almost have to. All I know is that a hammer is the only thing that got those bearings in and out of there the first time and I can only expect the same thing this next time.


 
Jason: Here are my thoughts.  Others may have a different viewpoint.
 
Not being a PSI employee or associated with the manufacture of the TurnCrafter lathe, I don't "know" how tight all of that stuff is supposed to fit together.  On my JET mini all of the parts you mention are a snug slip fit and will come out by hand or with only very gentle effort with a soft-faced hammer.  First thing I would do is call PSI and pose this question to their technicians.  If it turns out that the fit is supposed to be as tight as you have found, then your best alternative is to remove the head of the lathe and take it to a machine shop or bearing place and let them "PRESS" the bearings in and out and on and off.  I know that is a PIA; but it is the only way I know of to install the new bearings without risk of damage.
 
The emery cloth solution scares the hell out of me and I would personally not do it; but, I guess, if you feel you have no other alternative, then what do you have to lose?  The lathe is not working for you right now so, in one sense, you can't make it any worse?
 
I don't know what the warranty situation is on your lathe; but I would look into that and push PSI real hard for a new headstock if you are anywhere close to still being covered by the warranty.  And even if you are way out of coverage, you can still make a strong case that it is an original manufacturing defect that they have an obligation to correct it.
 
Best of luck and keep us informed of how things work out for you.


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## RonSchmitt (Mar 24, 2009)

jhudson1977 said:


> Outfitter,
> 
> I'm in the same boat.  I really had to beat the holy hell out of mine to get them out!


 
Just replaced mine for the 2nd time in 2 weeks. Same deal, LARGE hammer to get the bearing out. 
I learned that using a wooden block against the bearing with a bar clamp will press the bearings in gently and straight. Do them 1 at a time, and do the same thing to press the spindle in.


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## jhudson1977 (Mar 26, 2009)

RonSchmitt said:


> Just replaced mine for the 2nd time in 2 weeks. Same deal, LARGE hammer to get the bearing out.
> I learned that using a wooden block against the bearing with a bar clamp will press the bearings in gently and straight. Do them 1 at a time, and do the same thing to press the spindle in.


 

I'll have to see if I can find a bar clamp around.  Otherwise, I'll bring it to a machinist here where I work and have them press the bearings in.  I suppose I can beat the crap out of them to get them back out since they are ruined anyways.  Oh well........it's a lesson's learned I suppose!


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## jhudson1977 (Mar 27, 2009)

Well, pressed in some new bearings tonight and of course, didn't write down which way the pulley was to go on the spindle.  Well, 50/50 chance on that one and I was wrong!  So, I'll be pressing the bearings back out to swap that thing.

However, I remounted everything and found that it helped the problem but my mandrel is still all over the place - just not as much.  So the only thing left at this point is the spindle or the rest of the guts of the mandrel.  I suppose I could put in a center and see how it moves.  That would rule out the mandrel and its guts (I've already replaced the mandrel rod).

If the spindle were bent or something, wouldn't it be quite difficult to get the bearing off the spindle?  I did use a 50 ton press, but I don't think it was using all 50 tons to get the spindle out (I doubt even 500 pounds).  Could I be setting the #2MT wrong?


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## Dario (Mar 27, 2009)

outfitter said:


> Thanks for the reply guys. Yup, I tried cleaning the taper and no luck. I have 2 dead center and one live that I put in the head stockand all three rotate OOR.



Try reading these old threads...might help you.

http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=17454

http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=17433


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## Randy_ (Mar 28, 2009)

Hey Todd:  Anything further to report in your conversations with PSI??
 
I went to the library and looked at your two videos and I don't think there is any question but what your lathe has a defective spindle.  I think PSI owes you a new spindle and given the difficulty of removing the bearings, I wouls ask them for a new set of beaings as well since you are probably going to ruin the existing bearings when you remove the spindle.


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## randyrls (Mar 31, 2009)

To join the thread;    Most metal lathes and some wood lathes with tapered bearings have a "pre-load" adjustment to make the spindle as tight and true as possible.

I'm not sure if there is a similar adjustment on this lathe or not.  I haven't taken apart my Jet 1014.  I check the manual but don't see where there is any reference to this.


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## jhudson1977 (Mar 31, 2009)

Not sure if I have just gone overboard or not, but I am finished with PSI.  They tell me they cannot ship just a spindle as a replacement nor do they offer the bearings as a replacement.  I've already replaced the bearings myself, just decided I would ask the question since the spindle needs to be removed to replace the bearings.  They told me that I had to purchase the whole headstock as a unit.  WHAT????  How in the hell would the belt be replaced then???  I am so tired of that company it is driving me mad!!!

So, I am now in the market for a new lathe as I am so anti-PSI I don't even want to pursue fixing this lathe any further nor do I want any of their products in my house.  I have seen what seems to be the exact same lathe as a Grizzly, but I would imagine the difference is in the support and technical help.

However, can any one offer some advice with Grizzly's stuff?  I'm specifically looking at this lathe: 
http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-x-16-Heavy-Duty-Bench-Top-Wood-Lathe/G0657

I know it is made in China which I was really trying to avoid but the price of this is beginning to hit my upper tier.  It mentions that it is made in an ISO9001 factory.  I know that where I work we are an ISO9001 factory and QA is tight!  However, from what I understand, ISO9001 is nothing more than proof that a process exists, not that the tolerances are tight.  Don't know................any and all opinions are welcome.  Please........before I throw more money down the drain.


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## rjwolfe3 (Mar 31, 2009)

Jason,
Too bad you don't live closer I would take it off of you for parts for mine.  I hope I don't have any problems with mine in the future (its about a year and half old).


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## jhudson1977 (Mar 31, 2009)

Mine's _almost_ a year old.


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## rjwolfe3 (Mar 31, 2009)

Weird, isn't there some kind of warranty on it?  I don't know since I didn't pay attention when I bought mine, lol.


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## jppensplus (Mar 31, 2009)

I think you might have bought a lemon---in my opinion, you have every right to expect that lathe to turn true from the get-go.  If not, and if you haven't dropped the lathe on the way to your workshop, I would be requesting a full replacement.


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## Randy_ (Apr 1, 2009)

randyrls said:


> To join the thread; Most metal lathes and some wood lathes with tapered bearings have a "pre-load" adjustment to make the spindle as tight and true as possible.
> 
> I'm not sure if there is a similar adjustment on this lathe or not. I haven't taken apart my Jet 1014. I check the manual but don't see where there is any reference to this.


 
I think you are going to find that the bearings in the little mini lathes are simple ball bearings and there is no pre-load capability other than the little wave washer under the handwheel.


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## Randy_ (Apr 1, 2009)

jhudson1977 said:


> Not sure if I have just gone overboard or not, but I am finished with PSI. They tell me they cannot ship just a spindle as a replacement nor do they offer the bearings as a replacement. I've already replaced the bearings myself, just decided I would ask the question since the spindle needs to be removed to replace the bearings. They told me that I had to purchase the whole headstock as a unit. WHAT???? How in the hell would the belt be replaced then??? I am so tired of that company it is driving me mad!!!
> 
> So, I am now in the market for a new lathe as I am so anti-PSI I don't even want to pursue fixing this lathe any further nor do I want any of their products in my house. I have seen what seems to be the exact same lathe as a Grizzly, but I would imagine the difference is in the support and technical help......


 
Jason:I can understand how you feel; but there is no need to let PSI screw you. Of course they are going to try to minimize their "cost"; but if you push them hard enough, you may very well have success. If it really is the spindle that is the problem, they should replace it under warranty. You should not have to purchase a new headstock assembly!! 

Here are a couple of options for you to consider.

1. Keep the lathe and use it as a buffing station.

2. Get highly aggressive with PSI and demand that they honor their 3 year warranty. (For one thing, you can let them know they are getting a lot of bad PR on the Internet.) Some manufacturers consider the bearings to be a "consumable" item and will not replace those; but a defective spindle should certainly be covered. (Note: Spindles tend not to go bad. They are either bad right out of the box or they are good and do not deteriorate over time so you need to do a pretty thorough examination of your spindle to be sure it is defective. Do you see the same type of ridge or ring in the spindle MT pocket that outfitter discovered in his?? Is this OOR problem something you have had since the lathe was new or has it developed over time??)

3. Check the classified. There was a JET mini lathe (sans motor) for sale yesterday. If it is reasonably priced, you might consider it and put your motor on it.

4. If you are able to determine that there is a ridge or some other defect in the MT pocket and PSI refuses to make good on their warranty, you could try getting a MT reamer and cleaning up the taper yourself. Someone on this forum did exactly that a year or more ago. The reamers are sort of expensive to you might not want to purchase one for a one one use; but maybe you can find the guy who has the reamer, borrow it from and give him a little something for its use. I'm wanting to say that it was Dario; but i could be wrong about that.

If you can't find the reamer owner, maybe outfitter would be willing for you guys to buy one and split the cost??

It is too bad that you have this problem; but it would be more of a shame if you quit and let PSI get away with it

Note: The TurnCrafter lathes may not be of the highest quality; but many folks have them and are quite satisfied so it may be worth your while to spent some more effort to get this one fixed.


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## gbhazel (Apr 6, 2009)

I went through an issue with the Turncrafter Pro that i bought. After three months of getting worked over by them the final thing i was told was that the Turncrafter is not meant to be a production lathe and therfore the tolerances are only down to 30 thousandths. With that you can not get any true turnnings and never do any lathe drilling. I worked with it until i had saved enough to get my current Jet lathe. IMHO start with the best that you can afford but dont start cheap as you will not be satisfied.


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## Randy_ (Apr 7, 2009)

Sorry you got screwed by PSI, Gary.
 
I know that dealing with a reluctant vendor can be very frustrating and even get to the point where your time is more valuable than the product in question; but there is also the matter of principle and not letting sleazy vendors get away with unethical practices.  I have such an experience with such a vendor....whose name everyone is very familiar with,  S*****R.......and I kept at them for  about three months before they finally did what was right.
 
Personally, I think someone at PSI just told you a story because they did not want to help you with your problem.  Too many people have posted satisfactory opinions about the TurnCrafter lathes to believe that all of them are off by that much.
 
OTOH, if it is really true, then PSI is committing a serious breach as they are selling those lathes with penturning packages which is an implied statement that the lathes are satisfactory for the task.......and we all know you can't turn a decent pen with a lathe that is off by 30 thou.
 
I checked out their BBB rating and was pleasantly surprised.  They are actually a member of the BBB and have an "A" rating.  Most surprising is they have only one complaint filed against them in the last three years.......quite an impressive achievement considering all of the business that they must do.....and that complaint was resolved.
 
Here is my suggestion for whatever it is worth.  I would send a short note by USPS addressed to the owner/ president of PSI.  Give a short description of your problem and the response you have received from the customer service people to date.  Ask for an immediate response and let them know your next step is a compliant to the BBB.  Be sure to include a phone number and an email address where they can readily contact you.  Then, if you don't get a satisfactory response, go ahead and file your complaint
 
Here is the web site where you can file:  *http://www.easternpa.bbb.org/codbrep.html?wlcl=y&id=75000825* 
You can do it over the Internet; but it will take a little time.  They (the BBB) are very thorough and ask a lot of questions on their complaint form so it will take some.....maybe a half hour??.....just a guess......but then you will have a pro negotiating for you with them.

Obviously, I can't guarantee that you will succeed; but it does look like PSI has a pretty good record in the area of complaint resolution.  Maybe you just had some bad luck and caught someone who was having a bad day??

Good luck and let us know if you have any success. 
 
 
 
 
http://www.easternpa.bbb.org/codbrep.html?wlcl=y&id=75000825


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## jhudson1977 (Apr 9, 2009)

*Bought a Grizzly - haven't given up on PSI*

Well, I bought a Grizzly.  I still very much plan on taking PSI to task on this because it is still very much within warranty.  It will then turn into a buffing station.

Sorry......I couldn't resist as the wife actually suggested a new one!  Who am I to say no to the wife????

Anyways, NOW, I have a VERY VERY VERY similar issue with my Grizzly lathe.  Not only that, but it is ONE FREAKING BLIPPING BLAP HOUR OLD!!!

I take that back, not the same problem, but the bearings are over heating.  I received it yesterday, turned it one, turned three pens (Slimlines) and the headstock was hot to the touch, the center was hot, the counter weight was hot, the whole freaking thing!  So, I call up Grizzly - since their customer support is touted as the best out there - they first tell me to ship the whole BLEEPING lathe back (sorry - very frustrated here).  I tell them no...not happening.  Then, we decided on just the headstock BUT I would be down for two weeks.  I accept this and sit back.  Kept eating at me for about an hour.  Call them back and see if there is ANYTHING else that can be done.  They say no.  I say, you can't ship me a headstock and I return this one so that way I'm not down for two more weeks?  Nope.  

Okey dokey...........sit back for another hour.  Got more frustrated.  Call back, ask to speak to a manager.  Explain my story.  She says that have no headstocks in stock.  I tell her...do you have all the individual parts?  Yes..........put one together then.  She tells me she'll see what she can do.

OM FREAKING G.................I get this lathe (G0657 I think) based on the fact it was built in an ISO9001 factory.  I WORK in an ISO9001 factory.  Each and every item that leaves our place of business is FULLY tested - hell the customer even shows up to watch us test EACH AND EVERY ITEM.  Of course, this is for moving nuclear fuel but what the hell?  I guess I expected the same standards.  Guess I got what I deserved for assuming.

Sorry for the rant...............very frustrated.


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