# Quality Question



## Wheaties (Mar 15, 2010)

I was able to "test drive" a fountain pen this evening. It was a Jr. Gent II with just the stuff that comes in the kit. Since I don't have ink for the pump, I just used the cartridge that came with the kit. I was LESS than impressed. The ink flow and coverage was not very good. The rollerball wrote MUCH smoother. So my new questions are:

1. Is the ink in the kits that crappy? I would get the Private Reserve ink from exotics if I were to buy a kit. Would that significantly change things?

2. Are the kit nibs that bad? Should I get a steel nib from Heritance? 

I want to like these things, but so far I'm still on the rollerball side. I am more than willing to try the two things I mentioned though. At this point, I don't think I will invest in any Gold-Nib's.

Thanks for the help!!!


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## bgibb42 (Mar 15, 2010)

This is a somewhat inexperienced opinion:

The stock ink cartridges that come with the component sets are junk.  When I made my first fountain pens, I used them because I didn't know better.  Ink from a bottle is almost always superior to these "el cheapo" cartridges.  

As far as the nibs, in my (limited) experience, the Berea nibs are not that great out of the bag.  I imagine with some tuning they could be acceptable, but I don't really know.  The Dayacom nibs seem to work just fine for me, and my wife loves hers.  I did install a Heritance nib on a gift pen I made, and did not notice any real difference from the Dayacom nib.  YMMV, and collectors will appreciate a nib that doesn't say "Dayacom" on it.


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## Monty (Mar 15, 2010)

Before you jump to conclusions, have your read the great articles by Lou?
http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=3828
Read through them and see if everything is set correctly.


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## OKLAHOMAN (Mar 15, 2010)

Great advise Manny!





Monty said:


> Before you jump to conclusions, have your read the great articles by Lou?
> http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=3828
> Read through them and see if everything is set correctly.


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## Wheaties (Mar 15, 2010)

Monty said:


> Before you jump to conclusions, have your read the great articles by Lou?
> http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=3828
> Read through them and see if everything is set correctly.



Yeah, forgot to mention that. I've read all those 2-3 times. Everything looked fine. (Not that I truly know anyway, but it passed the eyeball-test so-to-speak).

I was really just curious as to the quality of the ink and nib and how that's effecting my experience.


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## wdcav1952 (Mar 15, 2010)

As  said, the ink in the cartridges are crap.  Everyone has their favorite ink, so you will get many opinions.  Parker Quink is one of the easiest inks to use as a beginner since it flows nicely.

The kit nibs can be hit or miss.  The 15 or 20 minutes spent doodling on a paper grocery sack with a dry nib are important to polish/tune the nib.


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## Wheaties (Mar 15, 2010)

wdcav1952 said:


> The kit nibs can be hit or miss.  The 15 or 20 minutes spent doodling on a paper grocery sack with a dry nib are important to polish/tune the nib.



Can you elaborate on this?


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## Boodrow (Mar 15, 2010)

I've never tried one myself but I've always heard that the quality of the paper is just as important as the pen. Something about the higher quality paper actually wicking the ink from the pen, allowing it to preform as it was originally intended. 

Hope this helps:+)


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## OKLAHOMAN (Mar 15, 2010)

If you will take your pen on a sack and just draw figure 8's over and over it will polish the nib also a great exercise in using the pen. With a figure 8 your useing all sides of the nib .


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## its_virgil (Mar 15, 2010)

The ink that comes with the kits is most definitely not a quality ink...junk is the correct adjective. But, there are lots of junk inks that come in bottles also. Often changing to a quality ink will make a world of difference. I do like the semi flex nibs sold by Lou and put them on all fountain pens I sell. Do some research and the better quality inks will rise to the top of the list.

Component sets....much classier than calling them kits:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::wink: I think I need to order some junior gent component sets tonight...that really sounds better. I can probably charge more for a pen made from a component set than one made from a kit.:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

Do a good turn daily!
Don



bgibb42 said:


> The stock ink cartridges that come with the component sets are junk.   Ink from a bottle is almost always superior to these "el cheapo" cartridges.


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## OKLAHOMAN (Mar 15, 2010)

Don, the Jr. Gent component set sells for more than the Jr. Gent kit,:biggrin: Eagle taught me that a couple of years ago.


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## bgibb42 (Mar 15, 2010)

its_virgil said:


> Component sets....much classier than calling them kits:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::wink: I think I need to order some junior gent component sets tonight...that really sounds better. I can probably charge more for a pen made from a component set than one made from a kit.:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:



After reading complaint after complaint about how the term "kit" cheapens otherwise quality parts, I've made it a point to start referring to "kits" as components or component sets in my posts.  Here's hoping it catches on--maybe if enough penturners quit calling them kits, maybe the manufacturers will as well. :biggrin:

Or maybe it's just wishful thinking...


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## Wheaties (Mar 15, 2010)

bgibb42 said:


> After reading complaint after complaint about how the term "kit" cheapens otherwise quality parts, I've made it a point to start referring to "kits" as components or component sets in my posts.  Here's hoping it catches on--maybe if enough penturners quit calling them kits, maybe the manufacturers will as well. :biggrin:
> 
> Or maybe it's just wishful thinking...




Agreed! I'm on board! Sorry for the typo (and all my other ones in my previous 600+ posts )


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## OKLAHOMAN (Mar 15, 2010)

Brian I've been preaching that forever, keep up the good work...... maybe one day.


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## bgibb42 (Mar 15, 2010)

Wheaties said:


> Agreed! I'm on board! Sorry for the typo (and all my other ones in my previous 600+ posts )



:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:


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## Rfturner (Mar 16, 2010)

*Inks/Kit or component*

On Inks I have found that I don’t like the feel of many of the inks that come with the components. They often feel scratchy and I have had customers complain before. I made a Majestic Jr. Fountain (that I commandeered for myself :biggrin and found that there is a quality of ink difference. To the average pen user they will not notice but to the Pen connoisseur/collector. The ink can make or break a deal, if in doubt upgrade to a better ink or brand. 
 
I agree fully on the term component, I have never really thought of it that way but it makes sense. It also raises the perceived value of something because kit implies something you just slap together,


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## jskeen (Mar 16, 2010)

Well, I would have been surprised if you were impressed with the kit ink.  The nibs are hit or miss out of the kit.  Most can be improved by simply disassembling them and rinsing the parts, then putting it back together with a little care.  After that and a good cartridge of ink you're opinion may do a complete 180.  Or not.  It is really hard to tell that first time if the pen is working fine and just not meeting your expectations, or if it has a problem.  Any good stationary store should have a nice factory fountain pen inked up and ready to test.  A jr gent should be capable of performing just as well, if all is as it should be. But it's a little hard to determine that on the first one.  I would say that 1 out of 4 or 5 jr kit sections are just not workable.  I have a small box of spare components that I dig through when I get that one and swap components till I get a combination that works well.  YMMV.


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## ldb2000 (Mar 16, 2010)

Zack , Ink or nib quality is very subjective and what is acceptable to one will not be for others . It is always best to get allot of information then make your decision based on your own experience . There are a ton of websites that explain the workings of fountain pens , read them all (if you can) and then get some different types of ink and try several nibs before you decide . 
A fine writing fountain pen should glide across the paper and lay down a slightly wet consistent line with no scratchiness , a little feedback (actually feeling the paper under the nib) is ok but there should be almost no friction . Flex or semi flex nibs are great if your writing in a script or calligraphy style but totally unimportant if your writing in block (printing) . Kit inks are not the best but will do an average job but a better quality ink will have more vivid color to them and some will flow much better then others .
A great place to start learning about fountain pens is Richard Binders site http://www.richardspens.com . He goes into details on the workings of fountain pens better then most sites . Another good place to learn is www.fountainpennetwork.com .
If you really want to learn what makes a good fountain pen then buy a couple of quality pens and try them with different inks . You can pick up a new Lamy Safari , which is a good writing pen for about $25 or go to ebay and pick up a new Parker 45 for about the same . This will give you first hand knowledge of how a quality fountain pen should write .


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## wdcav1952 (Mar 16, 2010)

Originally Posted by *wdcav1952* 

 
_The kit nibs can be hit or miss. The 15 or 20 minutes spent doodling on a paper grocery sack with a dry nib are important to polish/tune the nib._



Wheaties said:


> Can you elaborate on this?


 
Zach,

I see Roy already answered this question.  I should have elaborated, but I thought Lou covered that in one of his articles you referenced.  My bad.

Some get even more intense and doo their doodling on a piece of 12,000 Micro Mesh.


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