# Chinese kits (Rant)



## RAdams (Jul 17, 2009)

I feel like i just got ripped off COMPLETELY. 


I recently made some fairly large orders to get ready for a show in Oct. Like a big dummy, instead of ordering from reputable companies that sell quality products, i ordered from woodturningz. 


Last night, i cracked tubes on 5 slimlines in a row. 5 IN A ROW. With CORIAN blanks no less. I have never had any problems with corian or slimlines. I couldn't believe what was happening. The transmissions are sloppy, and you better not press it all the way in, or your pen will not retract. After all these problems, i got to looking at the packaging, and the receipt today, and almost all of their product seems to come from China instead of Tiawan. 


I called them, and they basicly blamed it on me, and my techniques. Told me to switch glue. He also told me that everyone uses Chinese kits, then told me i obviously had a problem with China. I think i will just throw them in the garbage and only order from GOOD companies in the future. 




So, in summary, If you don't mind spending LOTS of extra time, and blanks doing your bottom dollar pens, then these Cheap kits are the way to go. But if you are like most of us, and believe that these being the cheapest pens we sell, should in turn be the easiest and fastest to build and finish, well you might want to find a different supplier.


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## DurocShark (Jul 17, 2009)

I've had that problem with PSI slimlines too. I've found that I have to sand the inside of the tubes (even if they're perfectly clean) to prevent the cracking.


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## jkeithrussell (Jul 17, 2009)

I can't keep track of which company sells which kits, but I only buy kits now from CSUSA (long click, Jr. Series) and Arizona Silhouette (slim, euro, cigar, sierra).  I don't even know if the kits from AS are different from those sold by Woodturningz, but I know that I have never had any trouble with the kits or service from AS and CSUSA.


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## glwalker (Jul 17, 2009)

For what its worth.  I get my kits from PSI (several Polaris and Majestic Squires, a few big Majestics (man are they nice!)) Anway, I've never had the problem you described.  I always use epxoy on a sanded tube.  Only wood blanks so far.


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## ngeb528 (Jul 17, 2009)

I've bought most of my slimline kits from Woodturningz and never had a problem and they've always been very helpful when I had questions or needed something specific.

Sounds like everyone was having a bad day.


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## jleiwig (Jul 17, 2009)

Not sure who woodturningz is a reseller of, but have you considered contacting the parent company and telling them your displeasure with the product and the reseller?


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## sbell111 (Jul 17, 2009)

Woodturningz is a PSI reseller.  We have never had a problem from any of their stuff.  Ryan has always done great for us.  

Also, please consider that the problems that you were having might have been you.  I know that I recently took a few weeks off from making bullet pens because I was having a run of bad luck.  I went back to them, slowed down and followed all my steps, and all was jake.

BTW, if you puch a slimline transmission too far into the tube, the refill will retract as your writing.  Measure the length of the tubes and transmissions to find out whether or not it's you.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'cracked tubes'.


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## fritzmccorkle (Jul 17, 2009)

This is by no means a realistic representation of how any of this went down.  I don't want to get into a mud slinging situation with a customer, but can't let this go without mention. 

We tried to work with him and help him with his problem but he would have none of it.  

Ryan offered (even though the order was older than our return policy states) to return the kits for other merchandise.

Instead he threatened to slander us in the forums.

I don't know what to say.  Some people you can't please, but it's a shame to see it go like this.  I work daily with customers to keep them happy, and we sell thousands of these kits (I say Kits because the customer had problem with several and not just one style of kit.  Some were ours and some were PSI).  If and when there is a problem with a kit i find out from customer feedback.  I could find out nothing here.  It's sad that we weren't able to take care of this in the proper way.  If it was doable we would have done it.


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## RAdams (Jul 17, 2009)

They are an indy company that used some capitol to make large buys from PSI, and offer part of their quantity discount to the public. 

They have apparently decided to branch out to increase their profit margin, and buy kits directly from the suppliers overseas. 

It has been my experience, that all of the kits with the little baggies marked with the bright red MADE IN TAIWAN stamp are ok, and even certain styles of the Chinese stuff is ok (Cigar, Euro) But these slimlines are a real PITA. I wanted to throw my lathe out the window, and that's just not right! 

I have done business with woodturningz, and PSI both in the past. In fact, i started using Fritz and Ryan because of how hard it was to deal with PSI, and of course the discount helps. At this point, i don't really care how much of a discount they are, If you have to do a bunch of extra work on a slimline, it's not worth it.


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## ed4copies (Jul 17, 2009)

As a vendor, I would be smarter to shut up.  But, as a contributing member of this forum, I feel obliged to speak up (again).

There was a run of kits from China that had a serious problem with fit.  I had a bunch of them, for my personal use.  I cussed a LOT as I tried to make them into pens.  But, I continued to order them without complaining to the distributor. (who will remain nameless)  I have continued to purchase Chinese kits for my own use and some are being sold on "exotics".  Before we sell any from a shipment, I turn a few to test (we are SMALL, I can afford to do that)  They have worked for me.

My point is, YES, the Chinese HAVE made bad kits.  They have also made GOOD kits.  Unless your supplier has the time to test, its anyone's guess which you will get.  AND, even though I DO test, I would believe someone who told me a kit from us was bad.  They are about half the cost of "Taiwan" kits.  We (exotics) will back them with a replacement if you get a bad one.  I will ask you to return the bad ones, cause I can't improve the products we get if I can't PROVE they were bad, so I need the bad ones.

So far, we have not sold many and we have had NO complaints.

Hope this helps.


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## Texatdurango (Jul 17, 2009)

Ron, I guess because it's a friday, it's HOT (AND you're stuck in Oklahoma :biggrin: ) you have the right to rant all you want but I gotta be honest and say I don't get your post at all and think it's in poor taste to single out one reseller who actually are some pretty decent folks!

I'll wager you spent a fair amount of time scouring the web to find the CHEAPEST prices on slimline kits. Then, when you get them you start complaining about the quality.  How much quality and precision do you really expect in a $1 kit (I'm guessing, some might be $1.25)?

Please don't take this the wrong way but... Just what were you thinking?

Ever hear the ole saying... "You get what you pay for".  This phrase is perfect for the pen kit industry and is one reason I don't buy the cheap slimline kits anymore.  

I would suggest an easy way out of your dilehma, quit buying the cheap (and ill-fitting) kits, spend a few dollars more for some decent kits, charge a few dollars more for your pens.... and everyone is happy!

All that said, I feel your pain, it's hot here too BUT... at least I'm not in Oklahoma!:biggrin:


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## DozerMite (Jul 17, 2009)

What about PSI is hard to deal with? I've ordered from them many times and have never had a problem. I place my order with the friendly staff and it shows up a couple days later. They have even replaced parts that I damaged at no cost.
I've also ordered from Woodturningz with no problems. If in fact you are having problems with different style kits and not just slims, maybe you should change your assembly technique and see if that helps.


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## RAdams (Jul 17, 2009)

And you sir, would continue to get my business! 

Maybe i should actually go check out this "Exotic" website... I keep hearing all these good things about those people. 

Hey Ed, If i make an order, could you put in a good word for me with the boss???


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## RAdams (Jul 17, 2009)

If i paid a Chinese price for the kits, i would have bit my tongue and dealt with it. But since i paid almost as much for them as if i bought them at woodcraft, i expected a bit more. 

I am not trying to "single" anyone out. I am simply stating how i felt about the situation. I don't care who supplies the kits, China, Tiawan, Japan, USA, CSUSA, Ariz. Sil., PSI, etc. etc. If i have a problem with a kit, i will stand up and say that i have a problem. I posted it here, simply as a warning to those expecting quality products for your dollar.

I don't want to get into all the in's and out's of my past orders with different companies. Out of the dozens of orders of parts, kits, supplies, tools, etc. i have made, TWO of them have been problematic. 

P.S. After about two weeks of near record highs, it's ctually pretty nice today! high of 90 or so!!!


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## ed4copies (Jul 17, 2009)

We'd be happy to try to help you.

Before "exotics" I frequently dealt with Fritz at Woodturningz.  They are also "good people".  

As an IAP member, I have tried to help develop the additional kit sources, ie the Chinese. (Fostering competition can only help us, as an industry)   But, local members have heard me say, "It has, at times, been painful!"  These manufacturers will produce a higher quality product as they get more experience --- but I have thrown a couple pens at the wall that they don't know about!!!


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## broitblat (Jul 17, 2009)

I can't speak to the specifics of this situation, but I have purchased from woodturningz many times in the past and have always found them to stand behind their products and to be helpful, responsive, and a pleasure to work with.

  -Barry


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## Robert A. (Jul 17, 2009)

When you started this thread you stated you had some {farely large orders}.That makes me think you were rushing to get the job done.Just like in auto racing the fasted car don't always win.You have to slow down to go faster.

 As for WWW.WOODTURNINGZ.com. I have bought from them and WILL continue too buy from them.I may be farely new to turnin.But this is like everything else we have problems with all types of kits from time to time.I will continue to send them customers as well.I WILL NOT let one bad apple spoil the whole bunch.And no I don't work there I'm just a VERY happy customer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                                                                   Happy Turning,
                                                                   Robert A.


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## artistwood (Jul 17, 2009)

hunter, your honesty is appreciated. i work in a factory as a purchased materials auditor and deal with a whole range of suppliers both good and bad. sometimes, i too, would like to throw something at something. i have found, however, that quiet calm gets me the best results. you can't help if you feel you got a raw deal. how you feel is how you feel. we all have found ourselves in unfortunate circumstances that we would rather not be in. that being said, and maybe i am feeling selfish here, how about giving them another try. your way has resulted in less than good feelings on both sides. all my vendors request samples of reject parts. it's just good business. that's the ONLY way we can fix a problem most times. 
i will make you a deal. find the slimline kits you want from any supplier and i will replace your damaged kits at my expense shipping and all. all you have to do is send me the defective kits you have, and i will send them to woodturningz myself. my expense. and no, i don't want anything from them. i'm just trying to help a vendor solve a problem with their product. 
i have no vested interest in woodturningz and have dealt with them exactly once....i haven't met them but have heard they will work with you if given a chance. based on my dealings at work, they are probably as upset as you that you got some defective units.
if you do discover that your technique needs improvement, well, welcome to my world. if i had a dollar for every pen kit i have screwed up, i would have enough to buy more kits and try again! dang......i could get rich!
and no, i'm not trying to be a smart you know what. it's my hope that i can return so many kindnesses frome people here and help a fellow IAP member have a better day...
have a good one.......bear


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## OKLAHOMAN (Jul 17, 2009)

Guy's lets all remember that number one Ryan and Fritz didn't manufacture the kits in question and did offer to replace them. Its been 2-3 years since I bought any kits from them as I just don't use any PSI kits and lower end kits but when I did all was well. I have bought inlace and other acrylic blanks from them and find that their service is always first class. While I feel your pain I also think like Tex ( I can't belive I just said that) take a deep breath, step back and lets not take a vendor apart. The kits in question could have been from a bad run and they were inexpensive in the first place. I've had Jr. Statemen that cost $30 when not bought in a group buy that the clips would not slip over the final, this wasn't just one it was over a dozen and these weren't made in China, so just cool down. BTW after a call to CSUSA I got new clips but I had to deliver 6 pens before they got to me and I had to file the inside of the clips, yes at the time I was pissed but a few days later I had cooled off and almost laughed at myself as it only took me a few more minutes and it certanly wasn't CSUSA's fault.


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## Texatdurango (Jul 17, 2009)

OKLAHOMAN said:


> Guy's lets all remember that number one Ryan and Fritz didn't manufacture the kits in question and did offer to replace them. Its been 2-3 years since I bought any kits from them as I just don't use any PSI kits and lower end kits but when I did all was well. I have bought inlace and other acrylic blanks from them and find that their service is always first class. *While I feel your pain I also think like Tex* ( I can't belive I just said that) take a deep breath, step back and lets not take a vendor apart. The kits in question could have been from a bad run and they were inexpensive in the first place. I've had Jr. Statemen that cost $30 when not bought in a group buy that the clips would not slip over the final, this wasn't just one it was over a dozen and these weren't made in China, so just cool down. BTW after a call to CSUSA I got new clips but I had to deliver 6 pens before they got to me and I had to file the inside of the clips, yes at the time I was pissed but a few days later I had cooled off and almost laughed at myself as it only took me a few more minutes and it certanly wasn't CSUSA's fault.


Just in case some overlooked that little nugget! :biggrin:


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## OKLAHOMAN (Jul 17, 2009)

:wink:*George you do have my address for the check...right?*:biggrin:


Texatdurango said:


> Just in case some overlooked that little nugget! :biggrin:


 


OKLAHOMAN said:


> Guy's lets all remember that number one Ryan and Fritz didn't manufacture the kits in question and did offer to replace them. Its been 2-3 years since I bought any kits from them as I just don't use any PSI kits and lower end kits but when I did all was well. I have bought inlace and other acrylic blanks from them and find that their service is always first class. While I feel your pain I also think like Tex ( I can't belive I just said that) take a deep breath, step back and lets not take a vendor apart. The kits in question could have been from a bad run and they were inexpensive in the first place. I've had Jr. Statemen that cost $30 when not bought in a group buy that the clips would not slip over the final, this wasn't just one it was over a dozen and these weren't made in China, so just cool down. BTW after a call to CSUSA I got new clips but I had to deliver 6 pens before they got to me and I had to file the inside of the clips, yes at the time I was pissed but a few days later I had cooled off and almost laughed at myself as it only took me a few more minutes and it certanly wasn't CSUSA's fault.


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## Texatdurango (Jul 17, 2009)

OKLAHOMAN said:


> :wink:*George you do have my address for the check...right?*:biggrin:


 No, but I called what I thought was your number and funny, but it was disconnected.  It was BR-549 right?:wink:


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## arioux (Jul 17, 2009)

It's hard for not to step in since i'm a regular buyer of Woodturningz.  Yes they sell PSI but they also resell an other brand.  They clearly state it in the description when they are PSI or not.  I see a lot of turner lately that are looking for quality kit at a cheap price ($1.80 and - ).  That is not two word that go well together.  Although PSI are not the top of the line kits, they are relatively fair.  There is a quality difference between Taiwan (mostly Dayacom) and Chinese (mostly Reizling).  There is also a price difference.  And it would not be honest to bash a reseller that clearly state where their kits are from.  You want to pay $1.75 for a kit, well don't expect a Majestic quality.  There where so many discussion on this forum about the failure ratio of chinese kit.  And like Ed, i still order them from Ryan or others, knowing that there will be a certain amount of defect and if i would get really pis**** of about it, he would take care of me as Woodturningz rocks.  Same with Woodnwhimsies, that carry the same kind of lower end kit lus better ones.  And like Ryan, they will stand behind their product and the also tell you wich kit are in a lower range of quality.  PSI have their funline kits, CSU have the Apprentice line,  same low end kits.  There is a market for them, just stay away from it if you expect to make a $500.00 pen that will last 20 years out of a $1.50 kit.  Well i know few guys here could probably do it . 

Sorry for the long post but had to do it.


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## JimB (Jul 17, 2009)

I want to know how you cracked the tubes!


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## rjwolfe3 (Jul 17, 2009)

I feel your pain as I have gotten bad kits from other suppliers (not Woodturningz) but it honestly doesn't do any good to call them out like this. It might have been better to just state a warning about buying cheap kits for the newbies and let them pm you about who it was that sells them. That is what I have done in the past. 

I tried to buy the cheapest black titanium kits from a supplier and now I know why their prices where half of what other's had, because I could only use half the kits. And this supplier didn't even offer to fix it unless I mailed them back at my expense. I just chalked it up to a bad experience and stay away from that supplier (again not Woodturningz!) I hope everything works out for the best.


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## RAdams (Jul 17, 2009)

rjwolfe3 said:


> I feel your pain as I have gotten bad kits from other suppliers (not Woodturningz) but it honestly doesn't do any good to call them out like this. It might have been better to just state a warning about buying cheap kits for the newbies and let them pm you about who it was that sells them. That is what I have done in the past.
> 
> I tried to buy the cheapest black titanium kits from a supplier and now I know why their prices where half of what other's had, because I could only use half the kits. And this supplier didn't even offer to fix it unless I mailed them back at my expense. I just chalked it up to a bad experience and stay away from that supplier (again not Woodturningz!) I hope everything works out for the best.


 






You, as well as everyone else is correct. I will rectify the situation as best i can. 

Next time, i will just shush about it all and deal with it in my own way. 

My previous dealings with woodturningz were perfect. FAST shipping, good packaging, quality products, solid prices. What more could you ask for. It is unfair to them that my inability to put a pen together be pointed toward them. They did try to take care of the situation, even offering to bend company policy. 


I Publicly Apologize to PSI, and www.woodturningz.com


I will email Fritz and apologize as well.

I also Apologize to IAP for starting this thread. I assure you, It will not happen again.


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## RAdams (Jul 17, 2009)

P.S. My name is Ron...


Hunter S. Thompson was a famous writer, and journalist. My signature is a quote from one of his books.


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## bitshird (Jul 17, 2009)

Normally if the lower barrel of the pen is cracking that's an indication of glue in the tube(that's the round brass thingy you put inside your wood/arcylic/corian/ what ever,) OR your not getting the Nib or transmission started in straight which is causing the tube to over expand at a specific point putting too much pressure on an area of the covering material, I think that's called IAOE,please DAMHIKT 
Slamming or Flaming a supplier on the forum is really in poor taste unless it's someone like Steebar that is known to just flat rip people off.


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## livertrans (Jul 18, 2009)

Corian slims are the the pens that sell the best for me. I price them low (15.00)because I have very little invested in them. My buddy has a counter top business and all the scraps are mine for the taking.  I have cracked the corian on more pens than I can remember because when corian gets that thin it is very brittle, and if you start the pressing the nib in and are just a little off or have any trace of glue in the tubes they will crack. All it takes is some thin CA and a little work and you can repair the crack.


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## Gordon (Jul 18, 2009)

I've purchased many small quantities from Woodturningz for several years - have always been impressed by their customer service and have not had any significant problems brought to their attention that they haven't solved.


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## Stephen (Jul 18, 2009)

I am  happy to see this resolved. I have had purchases from Wood Turningz and am more than happy with their services. 
Stephen


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## Rollerbob (Jul 18, 2009)

Texatdurango said:


> Ron, I guess because it's a friday, it's HOT (AND you're stuck in Oklahoma :biggrin: ) you have the right to rant all you want but I gotta be honest and say I don't get your post at all and think it's in poor taste to single out one reseller who actually are some pretty decent folks!
> 
> I'll wager you spent a fair amount of time scouring the web to find the CHEAPEST prices on slimline kits. Then, when you get them you start complaining about the quality. How much quality and precision do you really expect in a $1 kit (I'm guessing, some might be $1.25)?
> 
> ...


 
Wow George, nice negotiation.........kinda like talking a man down off a high ledge. Some times it is easier to just say, JUMP!!


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## randyrls (Jul 18, 2009)

To join the thread;   Corian doesn't give or expand even a little.  On corian blanks, before gluing the tubes and blanks  I always put a rounded off mandrel into the end of the brass tube and twist it sideways in a rolling motion to expand just the last 1/4" of the tube just enough so the fittings are a slip fit in the tubes.   You may have to use a slightly larger drill.  Glue in the tubes with polyurethane (Gorrilla Glue). After finishing the blanks I put a spot of superglue inside the tube and glue the fittings in with a twisting motion to spread the glue.  Set the transmission with the point extended and a nib already installed.


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## wdcav1952 (Jul 18, 2009)

Perhaps this was a thread that should never have started, but that is water under the bridge.

Ron has stepped up and apologized.  That took guts and he should be commended for that.

Move on; Nothing to see here; keep the traffic moving.


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