# Lunatics have taken over!



## Texatdurango (Nov 12, 2009)

No... this is NOT democrats versus republicans, it's not political at all.  It's about our country in general and how it's decaying right in front of our eyes.

Just driving home I heard a news blip about a local school board who has banned the word "Christmas" from any school activities and now has stooped one step lower....

Seems that one little boy was singing his song while practicing the "Winter Holiday" pagent and was told he could not sing... "I'll be home for Christmas..." instead he must substitute the word "Winter" for Christmas!

So now it's "I'll be home for winter"  I think the authorities bending over backwards to appease the .0001% of the population who are complaining are now going off the deep end and are acting like lunatics!

Makes me want to go out and burn my American flag and replace it with a plain white sheet so as not to offend someone when I fly it!


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## Gagler (Nov 12, 2009)

This school board was in the Azle / DFW area?


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## Texatdurango (Nov 12, 2009)

Gagler said:


> This school board was in the Azle / DFW area?


 
No, not Azle or Dallas.  I'll watch the evening news to see if it made the TV news, it was one of the local schools and I'm wanting to think it was Waxahachi!  You know how it is when you're driving along and you miss the first part of a story and only start "listening" when something catches your ear.


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## DennisM (Nov 12, 2009)

Give me a break! 

I am wiccan and I am not even offended by the songs, I AM HOWEVER offened by the closed minded idiot's like that board that do stupid stuff like that...

OMG!


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## BigShed (Nov 12, 2009)

Texatdurango said:


> Makes me want to go out and burn my American flag and replace it with a plain white sheet so as not to offend someone when I fly it!



That would be very appropriate, the flag of surrender indeed.

If it makes you feel any better we seem to have gone through a phase of appeasing minorites, no Father Christmas in kindergarten for fear of upsetting certain minorities.

Luckily, sanity seems to be starting to re-assert itself and all this seems to be disappearing.

I am hoping it was just another phase that we went through.

So keep that white flag folded, and fly your flag with pride.


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## Crayman (Nov 12, 2009)

Here in Danvers MA, the local principal has banned the word "meep", as in the character Beaker from the Muppets would say. He feels the kids are substituting it for a swear. The same guy wants to arrest students who are smoking off school grounds, but with sight of the school, whether they are old enough to smoke or not.


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## jkeithrussell (Nov 12, 2009)

My daughter is in 7th grade at a public school.  She had a substitute for her Texas history class.  The sub told her she must be a racist if she doesn't support Obama.  I nearly split in half when I heard about it.  Needless to say, the sub won't be coming back.  I teach my kids to respect authority, but I also teach them to stand up for their beliefs.  If that means getting in trouble at school for saying "Merry Christmas," then so be it. I simply refuse to go along with this kind of garbage.  Like Obama having a "Holiday Tree" instead of a Christmas Tree at the White House this year.  There is no tradition in the other religions for having a lighted tree in the month of December, so it's a Christmas Tree whether you like it or not.  These people try to chip away at our heritage one little piece at a time.


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## YoYoSpin (Nov 12, 2009)

I've got no problem what so ever with the use of Christian terms, songs or symbols in public and private places – just like the other 99.9% of the USA population, but I’ve got to wonder how much of this ranting is just perpetuating hoax and urban legend? White House calls their Christmas tree a “Holiday Tree”? Where did you hear that? And please don’t say FOX news or a Sarah Palin speech… 
 
Here’s a really good way to check on the validity of stuff like this: FactCheck.org


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## Rojo22 (Nov 12, 2009)

Before you burn an American flag, send it to me.  Fly whatever you like, but just because there are things we dont like going on, the flag represents exactly the feelings you are battling right now.  Hopefully the fog will clear, but I dont care what happens, the flag is always right, and we all have family that have served to make it so.  Dont confuse the flag and what it stands for, and the shenaninigans that are going on now.

Oh say can you see by the dawns early light......that meant something to a song writer at one time, and means quite a bit to certain folks still.  The dawn will break, and hopefully the flag will still be there.


Hang in there, we totally understand what you are going through!


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## NewLondon88 (Nov 12, 2009)

Crayman said:


> Here in Danvers MA, the local principal has banned the word "meep", as in the character Beaker from the Muppets would say. He feels the kids are substituting it for a swear.



Then he'd have to ban words like darn, gol durn, jeezum crow, judas priest,
holy mackerel, holy moley, jeez, sheesh, jeepers, jumpin jehosephat, cripes,
crap, crikey, gosh, golly, shoot, heck, dang, drat, gee whiz, jimini christmas,
sheet, shucks, gadzukes   ..  ah .. you get the idea. These were all
used in place of curse words or blashemy.





Crayman said:


> The same guy wants to arrest students who are smoking off school grounds, but with sight of the school, whether they are old enough to smoke or not.



well .. they can't legally shoot the smokers till they find a backup
revenue stream and then vote on it..


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## jkeithrussell (Nov 12, 2009)

YoYoSpin said:


> I've got no problem what so ever with the use of Christian terms, songs or symbols in public and private places – just like the other 99.9% of the USA population, but I’ve got to wonder how much of this ranting is just perpetuating hoax and urban legend? White House calls their Christmas tree a “Holiday Tree”? Where did you hear that? And please don’t say FOX news or a Sarah Palin speech…
> 
> Here’s a really good way to check on the validity of stuff like this: FactCheck.org


***
I don't remember where I saw the news clip, but I'm sure you are correct to assume that I got it from a Sarah Palin speech.  After all, anything negative about Obama must be some lunacy springing from Sarah Palin or the Fox News boogey man.


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## Chief Hill (Nov 12, 2009)

Well they do the same crap in Canada. North America was founded on Catholic / Christian beliefs. ethics morals etc.  Aka Jesus Christ. Now I am by no means religious and don't care about people that are deep into thier faith but in my country that you decided to shove your way into where it has been Santa claus and Merry Christmas for over a hundred years deal with it....it was nothing like this 20 years ago. If you don't like it get back on your boat and paddle your tail to where you came from. We can't travel to any other country and nag about their belifes and culture why should it be any different here?  I love the way it's done in europe now.  They have a nice way of saying shut up or get out.  It's even to the point here that the local police swat team has to take culture sensetivity training for male police searching Muslim woman in public.  No clothing removed just a pat down.  This was our police dept executing a FBI Arrest warrent on 2 terrorists living in Windsor (hiding ) and they shouldn't be touching them because there Muslim woman?????   They were living with and hiding terrorists but religion and ethics come before police safety.  Looks like we are the minoritys now??? Merry christmas everyone.


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## OKLAHOMAN (Nov 12, 2009)

Please do tell where you heard that President Obama will not call the White house tree a Christmas tree but a Holiday tree. I think this kind of non truth spewed forth and then taken as gospel is as bad as if not worse than that idiot who won't let the kids sing a Christmas song,, please get your facts stright....t





jkeithrussell said:


> My daughter is in 7th grade at a public school. She had a substitute for her Texas history class. The sub told her she must be a racist if she doesn't support Obama. I nearly split in half when I heard about it. Needless to say, the sub won't be coming back. I teach my kids to respect authority, but I also teach them to stand up for their beliefs. If that means getting in trouble at school for saying "Merry Christmas," then so be it. I simply refuse to go along with this kind of garbage. Like Obama having a "Holiday Tree" instead of a Christmas Tree at the White House this year. There is no tradition in the other religions for having a lighted tree in the month of December, so it's a Christmas Tree whether you like it or not. These people try to chip away at our heritage one little piece at a time.


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## OKLAHOMAN (Nov 12, 2009)

So you believe everything you read in the newspapers and see on television or hear on the radio talk shows, be they right wing or left wing? Thank god most of us have minds to seek fact from fiction.  





jkeithrussell said:


> ***
> I don't remember where I saw the news clip, but I'm sure you are correct to assume that I got it from a Sarah Palin speech. After all, anything negative about Obama must be some lunacy springing from Sarah Palin or the Fox News boogey man.


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## NewLondon88 (Nov 12, 2009)

http://ochairball.blogspot.com/2009/10/new-wingnut-hoax-obama-hates-christmas.html
http://factcheck.org/2009/10/holiday-tree-hooey/


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## JerrySambrook (Nov 12, 2009)

Between Crayman and myself sits a little town called Amherst. This is the home of the largest of the Umass campuses.
It is also a town that does not let the american flag be flown on private property except on the 4th, and a couple of other holidays. This is a town that does not allow the star spangled banner to be played before athletic tournaments. This is a town that has removed the american flag from its schools as well.
     A local person did have the gumnption to ask if the town was going to take Veterans day off, seeing that the school system and the local govt do not believe in it. He got no answer, and of course, a free day off for them while criticizing the vets was okay.
     This is also the same town that was going to let convicted terrorist Levasseur speak in public to educate the kids. I personally want to thank the parole board of the state of Maine for stopping that one.
     It is a good thing for the lawmakers of this town that there are some other activities that are illegal as well. (Neil and some others know what I mean)
     Never mind christmas. For that set, it is just more time off

Have a great day
Jerry


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## OKLAHOMAN (Nov 12, 2009)

To all members I apologize for my last 2 post to anyone that thinks the were political as they both were not spoken as a member with any political feelings on this topic just the truth instead of a proven hoax!


http://ochairball.blogspot.com/2009/...christmas.html
http://factcheck.org/2009/10/holiday-tree-hooey/


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## Longfellow (Nov 12, 2009)

We all have the best weapon to fight what we consider to be wrong and that is our vote. GET INVOLVED.


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## cozee (Nov 12, 2009)

All this lunacy is quite easy to understand and one really doesn't need to look far from home to see why. People have forgotten what this nation stands for. People have forgotten how to honor this nation. People have forgotten how to appreciate what they have and how it came to be. A quick example is this thread. It was started today and already has more posts than all the "veteran's day" threads combined. When a nation forgets where it has come from, it has nothing solid for it's future to be built upon.

And I too agree that our vote is a great resource to getting this country back to where it belongs, as a world leader. And I don't mean simply voting on issues but voting on the very same platform on which our constitution was written. We need to put God back into schools, the Ten Commandments in court rooms, hold people responsible for their actions, bring jobs back to our shores, put the "family" (A married heterosexual couple and thier children) back in the lime light, get politics out of government, hold our elected officials to a code of ethics as they once were, and the list goes on., and on. Without a vote, our voices are nothing more than clanging cymbals as we argue issues that really have nothing to do with our government. But then, if our government can keep us focused on those very issues, then we miss what they are really up to. We didn't get where we are now as a nation overnight!!!!!


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## wdcav1952 (Nov 12, 2009)

There is an old David Allan Coe song that has a great line in it"  _"... The one thing I have learned is this; You can't shake hands with a fist..."_

People who knee jerk react to think Fox New is automatically wrong because it is from the Right or that MSNBC is automatically wrong because it is from the Left are a big part of the problem.


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## W3DRM (Nov 12, 2009)

cozee said:


> All this lunacy is quite easy to understand and one really doesn't need to look far from home to see why. People have forgotten what this nation stands for. People have forgotten how to honor this nation. People have forgotten how to appreciate what they have and how it came to be. A quick example is this thread. It was started today and already has more posts than all the "veteran's day" threads combined. When a nation forgets where it has come from, it has nothing solid for it's future to be built upon.
> 
> And I too agree that our vote is a great resource to getting this country back to where it belongs, as a world leader. And I don't mean simply voting on issues but voting on the very same platform on which our constitution was written. We need to put God back into schools, the Ten Commandments in court rooms, hold people responsible for their actions, bring jobs back to our shores, put the "family" (A married heterosexual couple and thier children) back in the lime light, get politics out of government, hold our elected officials to a code of ethics as they once were, and the list goes on., and on. Without a vote, our voices are nothing more than clanging cymbals as we argue issues that really have nothing to do with our government. But then, if our government can keep us focused on those very issues, then we miss what they are really up to. We didn't get where we are now as a nation overnight!!!!!


 
The real problem is that our school system has "stopped teaching American History". How can our children possibly learn all of the things mentioned in the above post when they aren't exposed to what made this country what it is today without being taught the fundamental facts of our history? Ask any child in high school or middle school what happened on D-Day and I'll bet next to none of them will be able to answer the question. As a Vietnam era Vet, I am keenly aware of what it means to support my country. They were not easiest years of my life. My family and relatives fought in WWI, WWII, the Korean War, and Vietnam to protect the freedom of speach and religion we have today. Unfortunately, we are quickly losing all of that because of a few folks who think they know what is better for us. We can take back our country but it will require that all of us VOTE in 2010 and in 2012 for what we believe in! IMHO all of our politicians (on both sides of the aisle) need to be replaced. We need a fresh start and return to our American roots and ideals.

REMEMBER, FREEDOM IS NOT FREE!!! In fact, there are times when we must (and have) shed blood to keep it free!

I was going to apologize for this rant but then, after thinking about it I will not as I truly believe these things need to be said openly and freely. That's the only way America is going to return to its glory and great standing in the World.


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## its_virgil (Nov 12, 2009)

...disguised as members of the House and the Senate

Do a good turn daily!
Don


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## dfurlano (Nov 12, 2009)

Lets see its Amherst Ma fault.. no cable news.. wait the public school system.. hold on it's all the non-Christians..  there is too much politics in government, same sex marriage, loss of freedom of speech and religion, etc... etc... etc...

Isn't anyone listening? We have all the answers.


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## jleiwig (Nov 13, 2009)

Fred said:


> Quit the bickering and follow your own up-bringing.
> 
> And after is all said and done get out and VOTE against any and all of those that would force us to change OUR American way of life to fulfill their own agenda.
> 
> Are any of you good Americans brothers and sisters seeing the immense influence the meslems (intentionally misspelled out of total disrespect and always will be) are having in England - and here!


 
Why would you intentionally disrespect a whole religion for the actions of a few?  

That's makes you no better and no different than the terrorists grouping all Americans together based on the actions of a few.  There are many fine and upstanding AMERICANS who choose to practice a religion other than Christianity and should not be disrespected based on their choice. 

Last I checked there is this nifty little document called the Constitution with these ammendments to it which are commonly called the Bill of Rights.  The very first ammendment to the Constitution reads:

_Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances._ 

These words and many others are what makes America great.  Many men and women have fought and died protecting these words and the rights they give to us.  We do not and will not stand for the persecution of any group or individual regardless of race, color, religion, sex, national origin, ancestry, marital status, veterans status, age, disability, sexual orientation or gender identity.


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## snyiper (Nov 13, 2009)

Well there are quite a few in that group of Americans as well as born outside of America that do not Honor our way of doing things such as standing for our Anthem. Remember you dont have to like my country the way it is but you DO have to respect it. Fly That flag and be proud!!!!!


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## jkeithrussell (Nov 13, 2009)

OKLAHOMAN said:


> So you believe everything you read in the newspapers and see on television or hear on the radio talk shows, be they right wing or left wing? Thank god most of us have minds to seek fact from fiction.


 
You know -- it is extremely offensive to me to have you make an assumption that I'm some ignorant rube when I very plainly already said that I heard this on the news but I don't know which news story.  There was a clip that showed the tree being cut down and loaded on a trailer, then a brief bit about it being a Holiday Tree.  Sorry that I don't take notes about where I get all of my news.  Also sorry if the story was not true.  If it's false, big deal.  I tended to believe it because it coincides, to me, with other anti-American behavior by Obama.  Again, if it's wrong, big deal.  You don't know a damned thing about my level of intelligence, and you are flat wrong in your arrogant assumption that I believe everything I read or hear.  You are even more flat wrong in your even more arrogant assumption that you are the only one able to tell fact from fiction.


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## jleiwig (Nov 13, 2009)

jkeithrussell said:


> You know -- it is extremely offensive to me to have you make an assumption that I'm some ignorant rube when I very plainly already said that I heard this on the news but I don't know which news story. There was a clip that showed the tree being cut down and loaded on a trailer, then a brief bit about it being a Holiday Tree. Sorry that I don't take notes about where I get all of my news. Also sorry if the story was not true. If it's false, big deal. I tended to believe it because it coincides, to me, with other anti-American behavior by Obama. Again, if it's wrong, big deal. You don't know a damned thing about my level of intelligence, and you are flat wrong in your arrogant assumption that I believe everything I read or hear. You are even more flat wrong in your even more arrogant assumption that you are the only one able to tell fact from fiction.


 
Ok..wait a second.  Roy called you out on something easily provable as a lie.  You say you believed it to be true because of your stated bias towards Obama, then turn around and tell him it's arrogant to assume that you believed it to be true? Am I missing something? That's kind of the definition of ignorance isn't it?

To be fair to Roy, you did show your ignorance by ASSuming the story you heard is true because of your stated bias towards Obama.  Also to point out one other thing.  Roy said "SEEK fact from fiction",  not know, which again you did not want to do because of your obvious bias towards Obama. 

In this instance I 100% agree with Roy that your bias clouded what you infer from your statements to be sound judgement and high intelligence. It was much easier for you to ASSume something based on a perceived bias rather then really think for yourself and research blatant lies that anyone who is not so polarized to one side of the political spectrum could see is 100% bovine feces.


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## Texatdurango (Nov 13, 2009)

I can't believe some of the attitudes I am seeing here!

I simply commented on a news story I heard on the radio yesterday afternoon while driving home but to some, unless I can prove what station I was listening to, what time the news story aired and prove documentation on Snopes or similar web sites.... I'm a LAIR running around making up stories and an idiot who believes everything I hear, read or watch!

Unbelievable!


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## jkeithrussell (Nov 13, 2009)

jleiwig said:


> Ok..wait a second. Roy called you out on something easily provable as a lie. You say you believed it to be true because of your stated bias towards Obama, then turn around and tell him it's arrogant to assume that you believed it to be true? Am I missing something? That's kind of the definition of ignorance isn't it?
> 
> To be fair to Roy, you did show your ignorance by ASSuming the story you heard is true because of your stated bias towards Obama. Also to point out one other thing. Roy said "SEEK fact from fiction", not know, which again you did not want to do because of your obvious bias towards Obama.
> 
> In this instance I 100% agree with Roy that your bias clouded what you infer from your statements to be sound judgement and high intelligence. It was much easier for you to ASSume something based on a perceived bias rather then really think for yourself and research blatant lies that anyone who is not so polarized to one side of the political spectrum could see is 100% bovine feces.


 
Well, gee, let me see if I can help you out.  First, I do not believe everything I read in the newspapers or see on television or hear on talk radio, as was stated.  The fact that I made a false assumption about the tree story does not prove the larger point that you and Roy seem so eager to prove (i.e., that I believe "everything" that I see or hear without being able to separate "fact from fiction").  Sorry if you can't discern the difference.  Here's another helpful clue:  the tree story is "a thing" not "everything."

Second, I never said that I have "high intelligence" as you sarcastically stated.  I said that he has no right to make assumptions about my intelligence based on this tree story, and neither do you.  Or perhaps you and Roy go through life making correct assumptions, and being completely correct, in everything that you say and do.  If so, my heartrfelt congratulations to you.  If not, then perhaps you are both also ignorant fools who are unable to separate fact from fiction and who stupidly believe everything that the evil right wing media tells you.  Hopefully you can see why this point of view is silly.  

Again, to me, saying that someone believes everything he hears, implying that his thoughts are dictated by talk radio or (gasp!) Fox News, and then saying that the person is different from those who can separate fact from fiction, is a little much to make of this situation.


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## Fred (Nov 13, 2009)

God Bless America and the American way of Life! Defend America to the end as we are not and never will we be second to anyone!


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## DCBluesman (Nov 13, 2009)

*"The belief that there is only one truth and that oneself is in possession of it seems to me the deepest root of all evil that is in the world." -Max Born*


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## babyblues (Nov 13, 2009)

Let's get this thread back on topic.

I agree with you George.  Lunatics have indeed taken over.  I think the only way this happens is when we all just sit back and do nothing.  If we stand up to them, sure, they're going to retaliate.  Then let them.  Let them make such fools of themselves that it's impossible to ignore their ignorance.  We don't have to get back at them, we just have to stand our ground and they'll reveal their own stupidity before too long all on their own.

I'm going to say "Merry Christmas" and I'm going to set up a "Christmas tree" not because I'm trying to throw it in their faces, but because that's what it is, Christmas.  So, that's what I'm going to call it.  And because I love Christmas, so there.  :biggrin:


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## NewLondon88 (Nov 13, 2009)

Fred said:


> I have never believed in accepting any 'enemy' that has brought grief and death to my Countrymen. Never will either. I do not believe that my Country should accept those that would do bodily harm to me and my Country's citizens for no reason except due to a difference in religion.



Hopefully you'll understand why I'd put that statement in the category
of 'rhetoric'. 



Fred said:


> Justin, you state "Why would you intentionally disrespect a whole religion for the actions of a few?" Using YOUR count, _just how many are a "few?_
> 
> Also, just how old are you and what experience have you had with these people? BTW, maybe I should have posted above that my anger lies with those meslems that are violent and unpredictable, but then again, just how would I/you/and anyone else know which ones that would be.



So it is better to hate the entire group ahead of time? Call it proactive.
I wonder .. did you condemn all Christians when Timothy McVeigh
blew up the Murrah building?



Fred said:


> These meslems will beat the living snot out of their women - often to the death - simply because that woman was said to have looked down the 'wrong way' and her so-called low life of a husband was embarrassed by her actions.



Thankfully, domestic abuse and violence only happens within muslim families. We are safe.



Fred said:


> Where is the acceptable wisdom in that? What is acceptable about the senseless murder of thousands of innocent non-combatants around the world? How can you and others like you accept these actions?



Again, I'll file that under 'rhetoric' .. but are you saying that the non-combatants 
are women, so muslim women are OK but the men are not? Or are you
saying that the non-combatants are all non muslim?



Fred said:


> In the early days of WWII this Country rounded up the Japanese and held them in detention camps all across the Country. This was done since the good could not effectively be separated from the bad and thus the rest of America was a little better protected from a few. So, what's the difference in the current state of affairs? Just different culture and beliefs of a different people that unfortunately have a far different mindset that others.



Are you saying that this practice was correct? Justified? Moral?



Fred said:


> I for one will not trust any of them to be behind me and I will always keep my eye on them as I have always done any enemy of my Country.



I think when we get to the 'Us vs. Them' mentality, it might be time
for a vacation. 
The first problem is defining "Them".


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## jleiwig (Nov 13, 2009)

Thanks Charlie!  I wasn't going to dignify Fred's post with a response because apparently my age and my belief in the constitution make me less of an American.


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## NewLondon88 (Nov 13, 2009)

Oh, I can see where he's coming from. I just think it's a dangerous path.


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## Gagler (Nov 13, 2009)

Isn't this a woodworking, specifically a pen turning, forum?


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## Gin N' Tonic (Nov 13, 2009)

Fred said:


> I have never believed in accepting any 'enemy' that has brought grief and death to my Countrymen. Never will either.



At one time the British were our enemies and the Russians were our allies.

'Nuff Said.



"All we are saying, is give peace a chance"


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## ngeb528 (Nov 13, 2009)

jleiwig said:


> These words and many others are what makes America great. Many men and women have fought and died protecting these words and the rights they give to us. We do not and will not stand for the persecution of any group or individual regardless of race, color, religion, sex, national origin, ancestry, marital status, veterans status, age, disability, sexual orientation or gender identity.


 

Well said.


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## W3DRM (Nov 13, 2009)

jkeithrussell said:


> ...<snip>...
> If not, then perhaps you are both also ignorant fools who are unable to separate fact from fiction and who stupidly believe everything that the *evil right wing media* tells you. Hopefully you can see why this point of view is silly.
> 
> Again, to me, saying that someone believes everything he hears, implying that his thoughts are dictated by talk radio or (gasp!) Fox News, and then saying that the person is different from those who can separate fact from fiction, is a little much to make of this situation.


 
Well, with your post it becomes crystal clear that your feelings and political beliefs come from the liberal side of things. Being that this is America you are FREE to do that BUT, don't put everyone who has an opposite side of the aisle belief, in the category of being stupid. I find your statement to be insulting to my intelligence. If you were to take the time to LISTEN to both sides of the issues, you just might learn something and change your mind about some of the issues this country is currently challenged with. Perhaps you feel threatened by the "right wing" ideology of smaller and less power for the government.

This country was built by individuals NOT GOVERNMENT beaucracy. This country is what it is today because of individual accomplishments NOT BECAUSE OF GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION in every aspect of our lives. We, as American citizens, can and have built a nation that does very well when the FREE WILL of its citizens are allowed to run their businesses and lives without GOVERNMENT DICTATES.

Plainly put, the GOVERNMENT has NEVER successfully run anything efficiently! Just look at Social Security, Medicare and any other GOVERNMENT run entity and you will find it has failed miserably. Why? Because POLITICIANS are NOT BUSINESSMEN/WOMEN and never will be. As another example - do you remember a few years ago there was a huge uproar over the GOVERNMENT putting restrictions on everything manufactured that could be picked up by a child - even our pens and pencils. It was a knee-jerk reaction by the GOVERNMENT (to a lobbyist group) over some Chinese imports of childrens toys. The GOVERNMENT decided it HAD TO CONTROL ALL MANUFACTURING of anything that a child may be able to pick up. Now, that was pretty silly (in your words) when you think about the ramifications of such a law that was quickly put together. The politicians didn't even give a single thought to how it would impact the US manufacturing community. They only wanted to REACT to a perceived problem. I don't know what happened to that proposed law but it is just another example of how our politicians try to get involved with and control everything we do.

As the right-wing conservatives have been saying for many many years, let the private sector develop and run healthcare and private businesses without GOVERNMENT intervention and we will once again flourish as a nation.

The last I heard, the politicians we have elected are supposed to be there to "serve the people" and to do their will, NOT TO DICTATE THEIR OWN WILLS ON THE PEOPLE. When the politicians call us "UNAMERICAN" when we peacably assemble to protest something we, as citizens don't agree with, it's way past time for a major CHANGE in our political representatives - THEY have lost touch with the will of the American public - you and me...

Again, I quote from our own Constitution...


> _Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances._


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## Texatdurango (Nov 13, 2009)

Man............ has this thread gotten derailed!

You know, I really don't think the problem I stated in the original post has that much to do with whichever political party is in office, it's about having *too many out of work, desperate and hungry lawers*! 

Take a typical school district where perhaps 5,000 kids attend school. Of that number let's say 17 are from a middle eastern country with different religious views than Christianity.

All it takes is one or two of those parents to raise cain with the school board about how their "Rights" are being ignored by having their kiddies exposed to "Christmas"! 

Of course it doesn't take much for these parents to find a hungry lawer willing to take ANY case to put money in his/her pocket even if their case goes against what they themselves personally believe.

And the school districts are probably so concerned over budgets, the last thing they want to do is spend more on legal fees fighting these ridiculous law suits or threats of law suits that they just cave in to the .0000236% of the population and pass these pathetic rules!

*THAT *is where I am coming from.... has nothing to with Obama or the constitution and I really don't see an easy answer other than making each state require lawers to take and pass a few ethics and morals classes before allowing them to hang up a shingle. Some of these law suits these days are way out there!


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## dustmaker (Nov 13, 2009)

Well for my $.02, when we get to the point that someone is offended by the American flag, then it is time for someone to move!
It is the Christmas holiday, so I call it Christmas.  We put up a Christmas tree to celebrate Christmas, so I call it a Christmas tree.  Pluto did not change one iota when we stopped calling it a planet.
Now let's all chill out and get out in the shop and turn some nice looking pens!


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## OKLAHOMAN (Nov 13, 2009)

Keith if your would learn to read you will see that I never called you stupid but if the hat fits wear it, I only stated that before posting know the facts because perpetrating a hoax won't do anyone of us any good it just divides us more. Your so way out of line when you managed to totally discuss me by calling into play with words like stupid, unintelligent when all was said do you believe all you hear and read, that asked a question but if you think it means your stupid that it must be. When some one calls me stupid for defending my President against a hoax it just shows that my saying is totally correct you can't be fixed. When George W. Jr. was president I also defended him from the ignorant people that called him names, said he was less then intelligent and he was nothing but a reformed alcoholic, he was our duly elected President and as an American I will stand by both Republican and Democrat alike, do I have to agree with all they say and do absolutely not, but I will make damn sure of myself before I show bias and your bias is evident in every word written by you....Yes again I say read my signature line it fits you to a tee.


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## jkeithrussell (Nov 13, 2009)

W3DRM said:


> Well, with your post it becomes crystal clear that your feelings and political beliefs come from the liberal side of things. Being that this is America you are FREE to do that BUT, don't put everyone who has an opposite side of the aisle belief, in the category of being stupid. I find your statement to be insulting to my intelligence. If you were to take the time to LISTEN to both sides of the issues, you just might learn something and change your mind about some of the issues this country is currently challenged with. Perhaps you feel threatened by the "right wing" ideology of smaller and less power for the government.
> 
> This country was built by individuals NOT GOVERNMENT beaucracy. This country is what it is today because of individual accomplishments NOT BECAUSE OF GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION in every aspect of our lives. We, as American citizens, can and have built a nation that does very well when the FREE WILL of its citizens are allowed to run their businesses and lives without GOVERNMENT DICTATES.
> 
> ...


 
You are completely mistaken in your assumptions about me, but I don't have time or inclination to go through all of this nonsense.


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## jkeithrussell (Nov 13, 2009)

OKLAHOMAN said:


> Keith if your would learn to read you will see that I never called you stupid but if the hat fits wear it, I only stated that before posting know the facts because perpetrating a hoax won't do anyone of us any good it just divides us more. Your so way out of line when you managed to totally discuss me by calling into play with words like stupid, unintelligent when all was said do you believe all you hear and read, that asked a question but if you think it means your stupid that it must be. When some one calls me stupid for defending my President against a hoax it just shows that my saying is totally correct you can't be fixed. When George W. Jr. was president I also defended him from the ignorant people that called him names, said he was less then intelligent and he was nothing but a reformed alcoholic, he was our duly elected President and as an American I will stand by both Republican and Democrat alike, do I have to agree with all they say and do absolutely not, but I will make damn sure of myself before I show bias and your bias is evident in every word written by you....Yes again I say read my signature line it fits you to a tee.


 

I blocked signature lines because I think they are frivolous, so I won't be reading yours and do not give a merry damn what it says.  Thanks for your input.  You say one thing, then when challenged, say something different.  Whatever.  Have a nice day.  

You know that this thread has gotten whacked out beyond all reasonability when some goofball accuses me of being a liberal.


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## bobleibo (Nov 13, 2009)

Somewhere along the way DOING THE RIGHT THING was overtaken by DOING WHAT YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO and thanks to our increasingly litigous society, everyone is afraid of not being politically correct......
Sad, very sad.


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## Fred (Nov 13, 2009)

...  it is so very important."

Contents deleted by original poster


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## artme (Nov 13, 2009)

Rights, rights rights. Too many rights and not enough responsibility or respect.

Get a load of this: At a school in Sydney, Australia, A gang of young Muslim thugs (9-10 year olds), abused threatened and chased a fellow student of Greek background because he was eating a salami sandwich during Ramadin!. This was an insult to Allah. 

The ring leader of this posse was suspended. I wonder what the further consequences will be??


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## Gin N' Tonic (Nov 13, 2009)

Texatdurango said:


> Man............ has this thread gotten derailed!




Sorry Sir, This thread was derailed from the very first post.

Both you and I have been around long enough to know that threads like this usually go south very quickly. We have not learned from history so we must repeat it again and again.

 It has been a few weeks since there was a real knock down drag out flamewar on the site so I guess the time is due for another one.



One reason why I listen to music on the way home.............


"I can tell my brother by the flowers in his eyes, On the road to Shambala
I can tell my sister by the flower in her ear, On the road to Shambala"


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## mywoodshopca (Nov 13, 2009)

This is the reason I send my daughter to a private Christian school.. Costs about $4000 a year, but well worth it.

Edit: Read a few of the latest posts, and see where its going off track. My post was responding to the origional post on page 1 by George.


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## Darrin (Nov 13, 2009)

WOW.... Why are all of you so mad? You woke up today, have a home, and a computer on which your typing on, and own shoes, and I bet a car. Thats better than 2/3 of the world's population. Calm down and turn some pens my friends.


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## NewLondon88 (Nov 13, 2009)

mywoodshopca said:


> Edit: Read a few of the latest posts, and see where its going off track. My post was responding to the origional post on page 1 by George.



Conversations in a forum have a way of doing that.. come to think of it, 
so do conversations in person. If discussion was forbidden, it would be
posted in a blog rather than on a forum.


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## W3DRM (Nov 13, 2009)

jkeithrussell said:


> You are completely mistaken in your assumptions about me, but *I don't have time or inclination to go through all of this nonsense*.


 
If my assumptions was incorrect, I am sorry. However, they were based on your own words which seem to indicate you are a liberal. If not, then you are most certainly talking like one when you use words such as _"the evil right wing media..."_ and _"thoughts are dictated by talk radio or (gasp!) Fox News..."_.

I my opinion, those are not comments from a conservative-minded individual. So, I'm confused as to "what" your real position is relative to the subject. I do agree that folks have jumped to some conclusions in responding to the posts in this thread and that they should do some research before touting something as being the truth.



jkeithrussell said:


> *I don't have time or inclination to go through all of this nonsense*.


 
Aha, yet another very interesting phenomenum I have observed when talking with liberals is that they absolutely detest being challenged or questioned about why they feel the way they do about a subject. It seems to be beneath them to enter into any discussion that may put them on the defensive. They label it as "nonsense" or "I don't have time". Several of my personal friends at home are very liberal but refuse to sit down and discuss any of their views on political matters. But, it's okay when they blast away at me and others. I don't understand why there is this double standard...

I'll bet you will never hear or read the article that Fred posted regarding the impact of Muslims in England and Europe in the mainstream media. Before posting this reply I searched for "Geert Wilders" name on FOX News, NBC, ABC and CBS. Guess what? - of all the US news sites I searched only that "evil" Fox News had any hits on his name. Fox returned 109 hits but none of the other mainstream media outlets showed anything. Sorry, I am wrong, the NY Times website did have an article on him and about how he was banned from the UK due to his radical position on Islam. There were numerous other hits from the BBC and UK based sites. He was banned from England for a period of time because it was felt his platform was dangerous to the public and would incite unrest amongst the Islamic population in England. I have several friends in England who are scared to death of what they are seeing and what is happening in their own country before their own eyes there.

And yes, this thread is getting pretty bizarre but it is really showing the amount of frustration going on both here and abroad. People are beginning to wake up and see what has been happening around them and they don't like what they see.

Anyway, I'm going back to turning (probably at 10,000rpm to get rid of some of my frustrations...) :wink:


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## jkeithrussell (Nov 13, 2009)

Don -- I wasn't going to post any more to this thread, but I want to save you from further embarassment.  It's called sarcasm.  If you would take a moment to read the entire post, in context, you would see that it is a sarcastic comment.  I am not a liberal, and I do not need your lectures about the merits of liberalism versus conservatism.  I am probably the most conservative person you could ever hope to meet.  Now, I'm officially done with this thread.


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## mywoodshopca (Nov 13, 2009)

NewLondon88 said:


> Conversations in a forum have a way of doing that.. come to think of it,
> so do conversations in person.


 

True.. but some say some stuff online they wouldnt say to the persons face.. that will never change until a way is developed to be able to smack someone upside the head through their monitor :biggrin:


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## NewLondon88 (Nov 13, 2009)

mywoodshopca said:


> True.. but some say some stuff online they wouldnt say to the persons face.. that will never change until a way is developed to be able to smack someone upside the head through their monitor :biggrin:



You don't have a "Pimp Slap" key on your keyboard? The one that makes
the boxing glove come out of the other person's monitor?

Oh wait .. that's Windows 9


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## mywoodshopca (Nov 13, 2009)

NewLondon88 said:


> You don't have a "Pimp Slap" key on your keyboard? The one that makes
> the boxing glove come out of the other person's monitor?
> 
> Oh wait .. that's Windows 9


 
That would make forums even more fun lol


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## nava1uni (Nov 14, 2009)

I have read this forum and I find many of the comments insulting and absolutely political.  I find the slams about liberalism offensive, I find the insinuations about conservatism offensive.  I thought that this was about pen turning, not how to dictate what other people do, think or are.  It is stuff like this that makes me move away from participating.  Some of the comments made me very sad that some people cannot see beyond the labels and accept each of us as good, genuine, honest people.


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## jleiwig (Nov 14, 2009)

nava1uni said:


> I have read this forum and I find many of the comments insulting and absolutely political. I find the slams about liberalism offensive, I find the insinuations about conservatism offensive. I thought that this was about pen turning, not how to dictate what other people do, think or are. It is stuff like this that makes me move away from participating. Some of the comments made me very sad that some people cannot see beyond the labels and accept each of us as good, genuine, honest people.


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## nava1uni (Nov 14, 2009)

I am aware that it is casual conversation, but I did not know that it was about slamming others, being insulting and generally mean spirited with differing opinions.


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## jleiwig (Nov 14, 2009)

nava1uni said:


> I am aware that it is casual conversation, but I did not know that it was about slamming others, being insulting and generally mean spirited with differing opinions.


 
Yes, I am aware as well that some people get heated about topics, but that is why this forum is here for things non-pen turning related.  As Jeff has stated previously you can block specific forums from showing to you if you do not like what you read in these forums.

Not everyone will agree on everything every single time.  That is what makes this country great.  We can all agree to disagree and debate things.  While it is sad that things sometimes degrade to the point of namecalling, well...that happens in real life and on forums too.


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## Jgrden (Nov 14, 2009)

mywoodshopca said:


> true.. But some say some stuff online they wouldnt say to the persons face.. That will never change until a way is developed to be able to smack someone upside the head through their monitor :biggrin:


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## cozee (Nov 14, 2009)

bobleibo said:


> everyone is afraid of not being politically correct......
> Sad, very sad.



I agree, it is very sad. But, that definitely doesn't apply to everyone!!!!!!   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




There is a vast difference between being respectful and honorable versus being politically correct!!!!


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## rherrell (Nov 15, 2009)

DennisM said:


> Give me a break!
> 
> I am wiccan and I am not even offended by the songs, I AM HOWEVER offened by the closed minded idiot's like that board that do stupid stuff like that...
> 
> OMG!


 Really? Very interesting.


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## wdcav1952 (Nov 15, 2009)

Texatdurango said:


> Man............ has this thread gotten derailed!
> 
> You know, I really don't think the problem I stated in the original post has that much to do with whichever political party is in office, it's about having *too many out of work, desperate and hungry lawers*!
> 
> ...




George, it isn't fair to pick on lawyers like that!
Just remember that 99.5% of them give all the rest of them a bad name! :biggrin:


(Before I receive the wrath of attorneys or those connected to attorneys, please remember that dentists get picked on all the time too. :biggrin:)


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## NewLondon88 (Nov 15, 2009)

wdcav1952 said:


> (Before I receive the wrath of attorneys or those connected to attorneys, please remember that dentists get picked on all the time too. :biggrin:)



Yeah.. but dentists get revenge.


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## TellicoTurning (Nov 15, 2009)

I didn't read every post on this thread... I would be reading into next week, but I did read enough to note that in this country, which I love and would never want to live anywhere else, the squeaky wheel get the grease.... if you make enough noise, you get heard, while the silent majority (who has the most power if it were used) says nothing.  

This country was established on the rights of the individual to live his life as he saw fit, as long as it did not infringe on the rights of your neighbor.


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## Texatdurango (Nov 15, 2009)

TellicoTurning said:


> I didn't read every post on this thread... I would be reading into next week, but I did read enough to note that in this country, which I love and would never want to live anywhere else, the squeaky wheel get the grease.... if you make enough noise, you get heard, while the silent majority (who has the most power if it were used) says nothing.
> 
> This country was established on the rights of the individual to live his life as he saw fit, as long as it did not infringe on the rights of your neighbor.


 
That is part of the problem, we sit back being decent folks thinking the world will respect us for it while the .0000045% walk all over us with their demands and the sad part is that they are getting regulations changed, laws passed, amendments added to just about every bit of legislation we have and before you know it our first graders will be replacing their Dick and Jane books with a fresh copy of "Koran 101 - it's a _good_ thing" as a way of showing our tolerance to others!

If you think it can't happen.... sit back and watch! I doubt 20 years ago anyone would have thought that being bi-lingual would be a prerequisite to teaching in Texas since so many students can't speak english was far fetched but look at what the various school districts are doing now.


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## jeff (Nov 15, 2009)

I think this discussion has about played itself out. I'm closing this thread. Complain to me by PM if that bothers you.


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## MesquiteMan (Nov 15, 2009)

Dear IAP...

I am sorry this thread went on as long as it did.  I had the opportunity to go out of town to go deer hunting and have been gone since last Thursday at noon.  I just got back and saw all of the hate and venom in this thread.  I apologize that I was not here to put things back on track a LOT sooner before some got slammed and others got thier feelings hurt.  Stuff like this DOES NOT BELONG ON IAP!  Please think about things before hitting the submit button.  Most of the stuff that went on in this thread did not accomplish anything except to cause hard feelings.  Thanks for your consideration in the future.

Curtis O. Seebeck
IAP Head Moderator


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