# What Would You Do?



## Buzzzz4 (Mar 11, 2012)

I sold a nice fountain pen ($200) a week and a half ago via my website. The customer was quite particular about the nib, and I fulfilled his requests. I sent it out on the 6th of March and USPS tracking said it was delivered to the address on the 8th of March. 

I received an email from him today asking what the status of his order was. I resent him all of the tracking information with the status of the delivery. He hasn't responded yet, but what would you do in this situation. I don't believe my insurance will apply with the USPS as they did their job. If he responds that he didn't get it, do I have any recourse or do I remake/refund the pen? 

I'm waiting to hear back from him, but have never encountered this scenario before.


----------



## watch_art (Mar 11, 2012)

I wouldn't refund money just yet.  USPS shows it's delivered.  Maybe they took it to the neighbor by accident.  Some areas are pretty spotty as to quality of delivery.


----------



## Justturnin (Mar 11, 2012)

I bet he went to his door and it was sitting there overlooked by him when he got the mail.  To proud to respond to you saying so.


----------



## Haynie (Mar 11, 2012)

E-mail him again and see if he got it, it shows your concern with his satisfaction.  Around here delivered could mean he has to go to the PO to pick it up.  Had this happen with a boat part once.  Guy was real mad then found a yellow slip in a magazine.  He got the part.


----------



## low_48 (Mar 11, 2012)

When I ordered an IPad from Apple, they would only deliver with a signature. If I bypassed the signature requirement, I had to agree that I would not file any kind of delivery claim. A good friend sold a burl stool at an art show in Madison, Wi. He had the swipe on his smart phone to take the credit card. 4 weeks latter, the customer claims he did not get any product from my friend. Money was frozen at the credit card company. Seems we just can't protect ourselves enough. If he paid with a credit card, and there is no signature that he received it, I think you will be out the product, and the money. Making another one might be an option you will seriously have to consider. Then a delivery that requires a signature. Maybe a necessity in all future shipping, along with increases in shipping cost to the customer.


----------



## ed4copies (Mar 11, 2012)

The problem really is, you don't KNOW whether he got it!!

USPS says he did--but we all know they are not always right.  My "gut reaction" would be to make him another pen and send it, signature required.  Ask him to keep his eyes open for a couple days and also ask him to check with his postman.  Of course, YOU can call his post office and raise a little heck too (if you say you delivered it, why does HE say you didn't??)  If its a small enough town, the postman may remember actually delivering which really puts you "at odds" with your customer.

It is not a good situation---if you find a great answer, please let me know--we have this happen a couple times a year.


----------



## Autonoz (Mar 11, 2012)

I believe you said he has not responded since you gave him the delivery info, correct? If that is the case, he probably found it. If he did not, I am sure he will contact you because it is was not a cheap purchase. If he doesn't, consider the transaction complete. If you want to be sure, follow up with him to make sure in a few days. If he received it he will appreciate you contacting him to confirm, if he did not you can cross that path if the time comes.


----------



## Xander (Mar 11, 2012)

I'm in an apartment and if a package is too large for the small mailbox the USPS worker leaves it at the office and (sometimes) leaves a note in the mailbox. On one occasion I was very closely watching the tracking of a particularly urgent package so when it was "out for delivery" I checked my box every hour. When I saw the mailman had been and left but no slip was in the mailbox I went to the office to check if it was indeed left. According to the office staff there was nothing for me. So next day I waited for the mail carrier and asked her about it. Yes she did leave a package at the office. I went back to the office but .... they could not find the package. I reported it to the post office who then opened an investigation. They confirmed that the package was 'delivered'. I then contacted the seller to report the item as 'missing'. The seller said they would look into it but if the PO said it was delivered there was nothing they could do. Anyway.... about 10 days later there was a box outside my door with a note from the office staff.."Found this today".

So, I think I'd wait a few days before taking any action and see what develops.


----------



## ghostrider (Mar 11, 2012)

If you knew the customer was lying, you would have an easy choice, but you either don’t know, or can’t prove it. If he’s lying, you don’t care to keep any future business from him anyway. However, if he’s telling the truth, then you don’t want to loose a customer who would buy a $200 pen by offending him with the implication that he’s lying. (Even if you provided a disclaimer that the buyer assumed all responsibilities, in the end your customer service still relies on you). You could tell him that, “since it was delivered, you fulfilled your obligation in the deal, and he can file an insurance claim with the USPS.”, but how’s that going to go over?

  This is one of those factors that should go into the price of the pen. Retail and accounting call it “Shrinkage”, and in my former business, it’s an accepted cost of doing business that we regularly had to absorb (as all our customers were repeat customers). 

  I agree with Ed. You may have to eat this. How much energy are you willing to expend into battling the USPS to get the claim paid? Then again, he may well have found it where the postman may have left it.


----------



## OKLAHOMAN (Mar 11, 2012)

Eric, it's the old case of he said they said, he being the customer they being the post office. Your caught in the middle, all you can do is make a replacement, send it to him (but this time signature required). The customer could be honest and if it ( the lost pen ) shows up he might send it back. I had one that the customer demanded a refund not a replacement, I told him my policy when its tracked as delivered it's not my fault but I will replace it not refund and it will take two to three weeks as my pens are all custom made (to give him time to ...find it...) a week later he called and told me his neighbor had it....


----------



## Ruby pen turning (Mar 11, 2012)

I had this with a slimline on ETSY. HE was wondering where the pen was so I sent him all the tracking and delivered info and never heard from him again.
How do we know these people on the delivery routes dont just scan stuff as delivered and take whatever they want home with them?


----------



## ed4copies (Mar 11, 2012)

Ruby pen turning said:


> I had this with a slimline on ETSY. HE was wondering where the pen was so I sent him all the tracking and delivered info and never heard from him again.
> How do we know these people on the delivery routes dont just scan stuff as delivered and take whatever they want home with them?



Apart from losing their job, they also would then be "tampering with the US mail"---a FEDERAL offense.  

As a banker once told me, "Don't steal $50,000!!  If you're going to DO it, make it a million, so you have enough to leave the country and not return!!

I don't think a mail carrier can retire on the proceeds of our pen:redface::redface::redface:


----------



## Buzzzz4 (Mar 11, 2012)

Thanks, I'll be giving it a few days to see what comes up. Unfortunately, it's New York City I am dealing with, not a small everyone knows everyone kind of town.


----------



## ghostrider (Mar 11, 2012)

ed4copies said:


> Ruby pen turning said:
> 
> 
> > I had this with a slimline on ETSY. HE was wondering where the pen was so I sent him all the tracking and delivered info and never heard from him again.
> ...


That's kind of what a postal clerk once told me when I mentioned the possibility. It's a nice idea, but when this type of thing happens so often, it's hard to believe. Where do all those lost packages go? Do they actually search every employe as they leave? And how can the prove that the employee dropped it off at his home, or had his girlfriend meet him along the route. Sure, the price of getting caught is pretty high, but pilfering has been going on long enough that we should know by now that there are always ways to beat the system. There is also the incentive when this sort of thing can happen is that nobody wants to admit that it can happen on their watch, thereby making them look negligent or incompetent. Exposing corruption among one's subordinates is not nearly as attractive as demonstrating a spotless record. There is a reason why so many will pay more money to use alternative services. 

Corrupt people don't weigh those possibilities until they make the decision to cover wrongdoings. 

I'll never forget getting sparks out of a helm that had been properly rendered juiceless. Tagging out the helm of a supercarrier is no small matter, and when I had to shut down the maintenance operation because someone gundecked their duties, one would expect that there would have been some consequences. Somehow, I doubt that the Captain was told that someone had been so derelict in their duties. 

They always say that it not very probable, but packages still somehow get "lost".


----------



## maxwell_smart007 (Mar 12, 2012)

Heck, maybe he's out of town and not around to check the mail...perhaps it'll be in the mailbox when he gets home. 

Maybe his doorman signed for it and hasn't told him yet...

I'd wait to see what he says when he responds...


----------



## Buzzzz4 (Mar 13, 2012)

He responded. My information all checked out with him. I sent it to the right address which is a downtown apartment building in New York City. He thinks it was misplaced or taken by the doorman, but can't say for sure. He will be checking with him tomorrow. He said he would take the loss, but I can't let that happen so we shall see what tomorrow brings.


----------



## jeweler53 (Mar 13, 2012)

I have done a lot of "web business". From your post I cannot tell if you sent the package insured. If so then it is up to USPS to prove delivery, not the customer. here is what I would do:

Contact the customer right away and see if it has "shown up". If not, file a claim with them right away. Inform you customer that you have done so. You may need to make another pen, but if so USPS will be paying for it.

If you did not insure it you just learned an expensive lesson.


----------



## 691175002 (Mar 13, 2012)

It is always a cost of doing business, and it really comes down to how you choose to represent yourself.

Most companies will not take a loss on "lost" orders unless they can get insurance money out of the postal company.  This is understandable, otherwise people could just lie and collect free stuff.

I have only sold low value items and they disappear rarely enough that I just resend to avoid the trouble.  


From an ethical perspective I think you are off the hook if the postal service can prove delivery.  That being said, if I were in the buyers shoes I would want the seller to make things right.


----------



## Buzzzz4 (Mar 13, 2012)

The pen was found! It was labelled for the wrong apartment by the door man. 
I did have it insured, but because the USPS had it tracked as delivered, I didn't know if the insurance would apply. All is good now, and he's already talking about ordering another one.


----------



## RichB (Mar 13, 2012)

AWSOME It worked out


----------



## ghostrider (Mar 13, 2012)

Good News.


----------



## Ruby pen turning (Mar 13, 2012)

Great!!!! Do you think your story could be made into a movie?


----------



## Chatham PenWorks (Mar 13, 2012)

You and your customer both deserved this ending. The package was "lost" by no fault of yours or his, yet both of you were willing to take the hit for it. Now he's a happy camper, and you get to make some more money. Beautiful.


----------



## louie68 (Mar 13, 2012)

Why not use Fed-ex or UPS where you have a tracking number and have them sign for the package. Just think of all the time you spent with the USPO could have use that time with UPS/Fed-ex and you can see there signature when they recieve the package and the time they got it. Maybe a lesson to be learn here. Might cost a little more but dare worth it.


----------



## NC Wood Art (Mar 13, 2012)

If it's insured I think you should also pay the extra couple bucks for signature required. Also Great that it was found, I have always had a small doubt whenever someone told me they didn't get it but USPS showed delivering it. I also took the loss, never thought of the we will replace policy I had always refunded, but the replacement policy is much less costly than losing the sale amount + the cost of the pen.


----------



## rej19 (Mar 13, 2012)

Eric, Great everything worked out. You handled it correctly by not immediately making it confrontational. So often people are immediately ready to make war. Looks like you may get another order because of your patience. Congrats.


----------



## ed4copies (Mar 13, 2012)

louie56 said:


> Why not use Fed-ex or UPS where you have a tracking number and have them sign for the package. Just think of all the time you spent with the USPO could have use that time with UPS/Fed-ex and you can see there signature when they recieve the package and the time they got it. Maybe a lesson to be learn here. Might cost a little more but dare worth it.





Not so quick there, Louie!!!:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

UPS and FedEx do NOT require a signature on residential deliveries, any more.  And they are not allowed to use the mailbox---so they get "creative" in places where they "deliver" the package.

"Behind the bushes"
"In the car in the driveway"
"On the front porch" (guy enters his house exclusively through the back door, next to the garage)

These are a couple of the ones I have heard.


----------



## Smitty37 (Mar 13, 2012)

*What Ins Co?*



Buzzzz4 said:


> I sold a nice fountain pen ($200) a week and a half ago via my website. The customer was quite particular about the nib, and I fulfilled his requests. I sent it out on the 6th of March and USPS tracking said it was delivered to the address on the 8th of March.
> 
> I received an email from him today asking what the status of his order was. I resent him all of the tracking information with the status of the delivery. He hasn't responded yet, but what would you do in this situation. I don't believe my insurance will apply with the USPS as they did their job. If he responds that he didn't get it, do I have any recourse or do I remake/refund the pen?
> 
> I'm waiting to hear back from him, but have never encountered this scenario before.


  Sometimes you can tell if the item was scanned at the post office or by the carrier.  If the delivery scan was actually made by the carrier there is little doubt that it was delivered.  I have had people who bought several things from several folks at around the same time tell me they hadn't received my item and when I told them the PO said it was delivered come back and tell me it was actually a different vendor's product that hadn't been delivered and they had just gotten confused.

If the Post Office says it was delivered, a charge back will probably not be granted.  Confirmed delivery was instituted to reduce fraudulent claims of non-delivery.  It worked too.  When I was shipping coins before confirmed delivery was available on line I had quite a few claims.  None since I started using it on all packages.

I'll still almost bet he has received the package...


----------



## Smitty37 (Mar 13, 2012)

*Yep*



ed4copies said:


> louie56 said:
> 
> 
> > Why not use Fed-ex or UPS where you have a tracking number and have them sign for the package. Just think of all the time you spent with the USPO could have use that time with UPS/Fed-ex and you can see there signature when they recieve the package and the time they got it. Maybe a lesson to be learn here. Might cost a little more but dare worth it.
> ...


 You can have still have FedEx collect a signature because I had to sign for a letter last week.  But it was related to a law suit from an attorney related to a law suit  and I suspect it is costly.   

Even items where a signature is required UPS, FedEx and DHL all can let the Driver sign for you.  My DHL delivery guy does it all the time - shipper sends experss, signature required and he signs.  

Delivering without signature (like dropping items on the porch or in the driveway) seems to be unique to the USA.  I have had UPS drop a box in the driveway and never even ring the bell to tell us.


----------



## ghostrider (Mar 13, 2012)

Smitty37 said:


> ed4copies said:
> 
> 
> > louie56 said:
> ...


A couple weeks ago, my mailman left a notice of failure to deliver,  due to no one being home. I was there waiting for it the whole time, and my  doorbell was never rung. 

I think it really depends on the service at the delivery location. Some people have better service with Fed-Ex, some with UPS, or USPS. My UPS driver has been the same for probably going on ten years now, and he won't drop off without a signature. He won't even leave it with my neighbor (she always is willing to receive my packages for me) without me leaving a notice for him to do so. The old mailman used to first ask her if I were home before dropping the package with her. It all comes down to the individual making the delivery.


----------



## Xander (Mar 13, 2012)

getting a signature means NOTHING. I get packages here all the time and USPS, UPS, Fed-Ex leave them at the managers office and some office assistant signs. When I go to get my package the office staff 'can't find' it. So USPS delivers it and it's signed for but I still get nothing. And USPS will not do anything no matter who signs for it.


----------



## Jgrden (Mar 13, 2012)

Twice we have had the FedEx delivery person throw package and envelope from the street up to our porch. One day is was just plain lazy, the other day was because of snow. You never wonder where the envelope is going to wind up. The recipient needs to look around.


----------



## THarvey (Mar 14, 2012)

Buzzzz4 said:


> The pen was found! It was labelled for the wrong apartment by the door man.
> I did have it insured, but because the USPS had it tracked as delivered, I didn't know if the insurance would apply. All is good now, and he's already talking about ordering another one.




Glad it all worked out for you and your customer.

I would send the next one "signature required".  That way you can tell him who signed for it.  Costs a couple dollars extra, but worth it in large city apartment/condo buildings.


----------



## Jgrden (Mar 14, 2012)

Whew !!!!!


----------

