# Is this my fault or PSI's?



## Scooley01 (Jan 24, 2012)

I was drilling some ebony a minute ago, and my brand new 10mm Gorilla Grind drill bit snapped in half, the drill chuck flew out of my lathe across the shop, which of course ripped my blank in half also.

I've never had a drill bit break on me...especially one this thick!  Is this something that I did wrong, or is this a shoddy part from PSI?  I'll be returning it either way, but it sets me back a bit which is disappointing   Does HF carry 10mm bits?


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## ragz (Jan 24, 2012)

Did it chatter as you drilled before it broke?


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## Richard Gibson (Jan 24, 2012)

Don't know if HF carries them but Woodcraft does.


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## Scooley01 (Jan 24, 2012)

Nope, there was no warning at all.  A little smoke came from the blank, but I've had that happen before on the harder woods like ebony.  I'm lucky the bit (either piece) didn't do some damage to myself or anyone else.  I doubt my goggles would have stopped a 10mm sharp piece of metal!


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## wiset1 (Jan 24, 2012)

...Even more reason to wear eye protection.  I would ask for a replacement if it's new.  Contact PSI via phone or PM Ed Levy here on the IAP.  Could have been an issue with hardening...sounds cool, but really...I have no idea.


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## cacardon (Jan 24, 2012)

Drill bits shouldn't break unless there is a lot of sideways force while drilling, they get dull and I've even had them bend but never break that high up. In the Corps being a mechanic we drill everything even in my metal shop they don't break that high up. I'd take it back


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## hunter-27 (Jan 24, 2012)

Not likely the fault of you OR PSI.  Most likely a flaw at the manufacturer.


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## Scooley01 (Jan 24, 2012)

Do you think it's probably a general flaw in the manufacturing process, or just a defect in my bit?  Should I ask PSI to replace the bit with the same item, or a different one?

I'm mostly frustrated because if I have to wait to ship the broken bit back, then wait for PSI to ship a new one, that puts me a week behind on this order.


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## hunter-27 (Jan 24, 2012)

Probably just the bit, it is an odd place to break a bit that size.  I understand the frustration of not having local options.


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## Fibonacci (Jan 24, 2012)

Tell us more about the drill chuck coming out.  What did your setup look like?

I have had bits break off high like that, but it was a result of twisting on the bit while I was drilling.  If your chuck was not tight in the tailstock, perhaps it started to come out, then the bit got twisted and everything went flying.


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## Rollingrock (Jan 24, 2012)

Use a 25/64" bit, you can buy them at any hardware/HD/Lowes.
Provides a better fit and cheaper than metric 10mm.


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## LeeR (Jan 24, 2012)

I had a carbide tipped router bit break, and that sure made me glad I had safety glasses on. It was one bit from a 3-bit set from Grizzly. I called them, and they shipped me a replacement set, and said to keep the two remaining bits from the original set.

That is the kind of support I've come to expect. I think I'd be irritated if I had to return the broken product first, and wait awhile for a replacement. I'll have to admit I haven't really done more than a couple returns in my 35+ years of woodworking. (OK, I just gave you a clue that in my advancing years, I've become more impatient and pretty demanding ... )

A few weeks ago I returned a broken Craftsman ratchet wrench that I got in the mid 70s. I wasn't sure Sears still offered their lifetime replacement. The kid at the register had a drawer full of replacements, and swapped it out for me without any question. I was pretty impressed.


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## Pete275 (Jan 24, 2012)

If you have a chance to come to Houston there is a Woodcraft and a Rockler. Thought I'd throw that out there in case you have reason to come. 

Wayne


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## crabcreekind (Jan 24, 2012)

Save yourself the hassle and get a 10mm colt drill bit. They will last forever and they will most definetly not break! They are as super sharp and drill like butter
http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2080206/28253/Colt-Pen-Maker-Bit-Set-5pc.aspx
this is a set but, u should b able to find one at a wc store


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## Justturnin (Jan 24, 2012)

Scooley01 said:


> Do you think it's probably a general flaw in the manufacturing process, or just a defect in my bit? Should I ask PSI to replace the bit with the same item, or a different one?
> 
> I'm mostly frustrated because if I have to wait to ship the broken bit back, then wait for PSI to ship a new one, that puts me a week behind on this order.


 
I had a worm screw threads sheer off and PSI just asked for pics emailed to replace.  When you call let them know you are in a bind now and need the bit asap and it would be appreciated it they moved it along as fast as they can.


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## Smitty37 (Jan 25, 2012)

*look at the broken ends*

If you look at the broken ends, if there is a flaw you can usually see it as a partial void or lump of foreign material or something. 

That being said if you get enough torque from your lathe, and the bit binds it can break, particularily if it is hot and it will break at it's weakest point, it simply twists off, like twisting any metal when you want to break it....My lathe doesn't develop enough torque to do that, it will just stop the lathe with that size bit binding.


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## hunter-27 (Jan 25, 2012)

Smitty37 said:


> If you look at the broken ends, if there is a flaw you can usually see it as a partial void or lump of foreign material or something.
> 
> That being said if you get enough torque from your lathe, and the bit binds it can break, particularily if it is hot and it will break at it's weakest point, it simply twists off, like twisting any metal when you want to break it....My lathe doesn't develop enough torque to do that, it will just stop the lathe with that size bit binding.


Agree.  A clear pic of the broken "ends" would surely give a good idea of this.


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## dogcatcher (Jan 25, 2012)

Scooley01 said:


> the drill chuck flew out of my lathe across the shop.



I am going to say this was operator error, a improperly set up drill chuck.  When it came it came loose in the tailstock, it twisted a little sideways causing the snapped bit.


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## Scooley01 (Jan 25, 2012)

I assumed that the torque on the breaking bit pulled the chuck out of the taper, but there's always a chance that I've done something wrong.  How should a drill chuck be set up?

At any rate, this makes me want to go back to the drill press!


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## ctubbs (Jan 25, 2012)

Steven, I tried the lathe for drilling and gave it up except for the most critical blanks, too slow, too hard, too many times the chuck pulled out of the tail stock.  I went back to the DP after a lengthy thread here.  Sometimes, the only way to get that hole in a blank is going to be the lathe, otherwise, ol' impatient me will be standing by the DP pulling the handle.
Charles


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## Scooley01 (Jan 25, 2012)

My problem with the DP was that I always felt like my hole went through the blank at an angle...or the hole was too wide for the tube, which made me thing my cheapo DP had a wobble in it or something.


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## cwolfs69 (Jan 25, 2012)

call psi, explain what happened. i am sure they will sen you another for replacement. i have never had a problem with them doing the right thing for bad parts. 
by the way that is not normal, but not unheard of for a drill. During the heat treatment process it could have developed a micro crack and failed there while drilling. remember, in the QC process, not every drill is inspected using equipment that would locate that on that level of drill. if they did we could not afford to buy them. 
just call PSI.


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## Ambidex (Jan 25, 2012)

I've used 7, 8, 10mm's and the 3/8ths that come in the pack from psi..not had a prob in the drill press, in fact am very happy with them. Much better than the 3 I bought from WC and broke 2 of the drill tips of inside of 75 blanks..But anyway guessing manufacture defect.


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## THarvey (Jan 25, 2012)

Smitty37 said:


> If you look at the broken ends, if there is a flaw you can usually see it as a partial void or lump of foreign material or something.
> 
> That being said if you get enough torque from your lathe, and the bit binds it can break, particularily if it is hot and it will break at it's weakest point, it simply twists off, like twisting any metal when you want to break it....My lathe doesn't develop enough torque to do that, it will just stop the lathe with that size bit binding.



Also, if there was an issue when hardening the bit, you could see some color variation at the broken edge.

However, since you sake the drill chuck came out of the lathe, I am prone to believe the chuck was loose and contributed to the binding that broke the bit.  A sudden allignment shift will snap a drill bit.


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## Scooley01 (Jan 25, 2012)

Just got off the phone with PSI, the man I spoke with sounded as surprised as I was that it snapped!  He put me on hold for a minute or two, then came back and said he was going to send me a new one, and did I want the same bit or a different one!  He didn't even ask to see a picture of the broken one.  Thumbs up to PSI's customer service!


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## Smitty37 (Jan 25, 2012)

*I'm not sure..*



THarvey said:


> Smitty37 said:
> 
> 
> > If you look at the broken ends, if there is a flaw you can usually see it as a partial void or lump of foreign material or something.
> ...


 My chuck comes loose often and all it does is start spinning. Usually the chuck doesn't even come all the way out of the taper because there's no place for it to go and it surely doesn't whip around -- it just spins. It almost always happens when I am backing the drill out to clean the hole or let things cool down.


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## GrantH (Jan 25, 2012)

Okay, I had this happen as well on a 7mm. 

My problem was that my Drill Chuck actually released from my tail stock morse taper. That is the absolute only way the chuck is going to leave the lathe. At least in my mind. So my question is, did it happen as you were backing out of the blank or what?


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## GrantH (Jan 25, 2012)

Smitty37 said:


> THarvey said:
> 
> 
> > Smitty37 said:
> ...


 
If I am reading correctly, you only drill the 2 or so inches that the tail stock allows for movement? If thats the case, the chuck would b sort of on an axle when it lets loose so it would spin. If you drill using the lock for the tail stock, worse can happen.


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## Smitty37 (Jan 25, 2012)

*Yes*



GrantH said:


> Smitty37 said:
> 
> 
> > THarvey said:
> ...


  That's true....I advance the tail stock with the wheel -- if I need to drill farther I stop the drill, retract the tail stock, move the whole works, tighten things back up and advance the tailstock again.  I think there is never a time when the lathe is running that the taper can actually come out of the tail housing.  I don't fully tighten the tail stock because on my lathe if it's fully tightened it won't advance with the wheel.


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## Texatdurango (Jan 25, 2012)

Scooley01 said:


> I was drilling some ebony a minute ago, and my brand new 10mm Gorilla Grind drill bit snapped in half, *the drill chuck flew out of my lathe* *across the shop*, which of course ripped my blank in half also.
> 
> I've never had a drill bit break on me...especially one this thick! Is this something that I did wrong, or is this a shoddy part from PSI? I'll be returning it either way, but it sets me back a bit which is disappointing  Does HF carry 10mm bits?


 
*Sorry but this just doesn't sound right!*  I'm sitting here reading all the replies and I keep coming back to the highlighted sentence above and can't help but think that either you are exxagerating what happened or you didn't have a defective drill bit, in my opinion, you had a poor, unsafe setup when you were drilling and you need to take a hard look at what you did wrong rather than worry about where to buy another drill bit!

I can't image a drill chuck mounted on a morse taper shaft flying out of the tailstock.  

If you had the drill chuck mounted in the tailstock, the only thing that I can think of that would cause it to *fly out of the tailstock* is to get the bit stuck in the blank and rather than stopping the lathe and safely remove the bit, you tried to pull on the chuck or tailstock to dislodge the bit with the lathe running and the morse taper came loose but I still can't see it come flying off.  I'm guessing the bit broke in half when the chuck hit the floor or wall right!

One of the biggest problems in people having home workshops is that 99% of the time, they buy a tool, bring it home and teach themselves how to work with the tool and if they start out wrong they wind up doing things wrong and probably unsafe all the time.  Just curious, have you ever had someone come over and show you the proper way of working around a lathe?


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## PenMan1 (Jan 25, 2012)

You read my mind, George. I kept going back to the original post to see if I misread something!

I agree, if the chuck came out of the tailstock, SOMETHING IS TERRIBLY WRONG, and most likely accounted for the broken bit.


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## ed4copies (Jan 25, 2012)

I'm guessing!!!!!!!!!

But I have seen a shop teacher set up the drillbit on the headstock and the piece to be drilled on the tail.  I suspect that was the setup here.


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## PenMan1 (Jan 25, 2012)

I'll bet you nailed it, Ed! 

I was just in the shop trying to make the Jacobs out of line enough to even fall out of the tail stock. I couldn't do it.

Now a mt2 chuck in the headstock! That's a different story. I can make the chuck fly!


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## Smitty37 (Jan 25, 2012)

*aaaaaaaaaaaaaah*



ed4copies said:


> I'm guessing!!!!!!!!!
> 
> But I have seen a shop teacher set up the drillbit on the headstock and the piece to be drilled on the tail. I suspect that was the setup here.


 
Methinks you might have smacked the nail on the flat part one traditionally aims the hammer at.


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## dgerwin11 (Jan 25, 2012)

I had this happen to me once.  TOTAL operator ignorance.  I was backing the tail stock and did not notice that the bit was stuck in the blank.  The chuck started spinning, and in my ignorance I kept backing off.  Next thing I knew, bit, chuck and blank were airborne.  Luckily the only damage was a broken bit and blank.  That was one of those lessons I only needed once to learn.


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## RSQWhite (Jan 25, 2012)

Scooley01 said:


> I assumed that the torque on the breaking bit pulled the chuck out of the taper, but there's always a chance that I've done something wrong.  How should a drill chuck be set up?
> 
> At any rate, this makes me want to go back to the drill press!



Are you advancing and retracting the drill bit with the quill or by moving the entire tail stock?

Tim


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## Lenny (Jan 25, 2012)

When drilling on the lathe you must advance the tailstock enough that the morse taper "seats" properly ... on my lathe it's about a half an inch for one chuck but nearly a full inch for the one I keep a center drill in. (I need to cut that one down sometime)
ALSO ... ALWAYS steady the drill chuck with one hand while advancing it with the other hand turning the wheel. That will alert you if the bit gets stuck and starts to pull the chuck out of the tailstock.  Of course this is all assuming you are holding and spinning the blanks in the headstock while using a drill chuck in the tailstock.


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## ed4copies (Jan 26, 2012)

Smitty37 said:


> ed4copies said:
> 
> 
> > I'm guessing!!!!!!!!!
> ...




A LOT to be said for NAILGUNS!!  100% 'Dead aim"


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## Scooley01 (Jan 26, 2012)

My lathe is setup for drilling the way I was told to set it up on here (Search the thread if you like) with the pen jaws in the headstock and the drill chuck in the tailstock.  I could mount the drill chuck in the taper on the headstock, but since the jaws screw onto the 1"8tpi threads of the headstock, there's NO WAY they could be mounted down there.

But I'm glad you've all decided you had me figured out.

As for what I was doing at the time...I really don't remember.  It happened quickly, and it was over in about one second.  However, there is every possibility that I was backing the bit out at the time, and it bit into the blank while I was backing it out, which would account for it coming loose from the taper.  The bit definitely snapped before it hit the ground, because the broken piece stayed on my bench after it hit the pegboard, while the chuck with the remaining piece ended up on the floor.


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## sbell111 (Jan 26, 2012)

Scooley01 said:


> ... However, there is every possibility that I was backing the bit out at the time, and it bit into the blank while I was backing it out, which would account for it coming loose from the taper. ...


When you back out the bit, do you do it by sliding the tailstock back or by turning the tailstock handwheel?


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## Texatdurango (Jan 26, 2012)

Scooley01 said:


> My lathe is setup for drilling the way I was told to set it up on here (Search the thread if you like) with the pen jaws in the headstock and the drill chuck in the tailstock. I could mount the drill chuck in the taper on the headstock, but since the jaws screw onto the 1"8tpi threads of the headstock, there's NO WAY they could be mounted down there.
> 
> *But I'm glad you've all decided you had me figured out.*
> 
> As for what I was doing at the time...I really don't remember. It happened quickly, and it was over in about one second. However, there is every possibility that I was backing the bit out at the time, and it bit into the blank while I was backing it out, which would account for it coming loose from the taper. The bit definitely snapped before it hit the ground, because the broken piece stayed on my bench after it hit the pegboard, while the chuck with the remaining piece ended up on the floor.


No, we don't have you figured out, far from it!  It's just that the way your explanation of what happened didn't make any sense and we were trying to figure out what happened so we could possibly help you from kaming another possibly dangerous blunder!

But if you want to post something like this then get all defensive, that's your business, I'll keep that in mind the next time you post something like... "my tailstock fell off the lathe, is it  the lathes fault or mine!"


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## Tanner (Jan 26, 2012)

I drilled on the lathe for the first time the other night and was timid about it as it was the first time.  I was drilling a Zen.  I didn't like backing the bit out as it seemed to take some material (more dust than ribbons) as I was backing out.  I was thinking it may be reaming the hole somewhat.  I just stopped everything, moved the tail stock in a little, locked everything down and went in deeper.  It worked good.  I'm not sure if I'll do it again as I have a PH Vise and it works amazingly on my DP.  I just didn't want to move my DP table down to allow for the longer Zen blank.


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## LeeR (Jan 26, 2012)

ed4copies said:


> I'm guessing!!!!!!!!!
> 
> But I have seen a shop teacher set up the drillbit on the headstock and the piece to be drilled on the tail.  I suspect that was the setup here.



I can certainly imagine that causing a chuck to possibly be pulled loose after drilling.  When I bought my Jacobs chuck, I made sure the Morse taper mount was the end-drilled version, and I made a drawbar for it with 1/4-20 threaded rod.  I use a small washer and star nut to tighten it against the handwheel.  Maybe overkill, but I also cut a small piece of aluminum tubing I had to cover the allthread so it would not scratch the inside of the headstock spindle when inserted and removed.


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## glycerine (Jan 26, 2012)

Were you holding onto the drill chuck?  I drill the same way you do (chuck holding blank in headstock, Jacobs chuck holding drill bit in tailstock) and I have to hold the chuck to make sure it doesn't come loose, especially when retracting the tailstock...


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## dogcatcher (Jan 26, 2012)

Scooley01 said:


> I was drilling some ebony a minute ago, and my brand new 10mm Gorilla Grind drill bit snapped in half, the drill chuck flew out of my lathe across the shop, which of course ripped my blank in half also.
> 
> I've never had a drill bit break on me...especially one this thick!  Is this something that I did wrong, or is this a shoddy part from PSI?  I'll be returning it either way, but it sets me back a bit which is disappointing   Does HF carry 10mm bits?





Scooley01 said:


> Ok, so I'm having issues with a couple of my tools...I'm sure it's probably operator error since I'm fairly new to this, but asking questions is how you learn
> 
> My band saw: Brand new Skil from the hardware store.  When I cut, I set up the fence to the right diameter, and use the sled to push the blank through.  However, as I cut, the blade pulls to the right (Away from the fence, towards the slide and my hand).  It pulls farther faster if I try to push the blank through too quickly.  It's actually pulled far enough to the right that it's nicked the table the blade goes through!  Also I notice that on the last few blanks I've done, the blade binds very quickly with any pressure.  I've cut less than 20 cuts on this saw! This is an annoyance and keeps me from cutting straight lines.
> 
> ...



The above 2 quotes pretty well sums up the problem.  You have the tools, but apparently no or very little training with how to use the tools.   All tools come with a instruction booklet, it tells you how to turn the tool on and turn it off.  The rest of the booklet is wasted space filled with elementary information and few safety issues.  

My advice is find a local turning or woodworking club, join it and ATTEND the meetings.  Try to find a mentor that is experienced, not some other new lathe jockey that started last week.  You will save yourself a lot of time on the learning curve.


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## redwd707 (Jan 26, 2012)

I always *shut off *the lathe when backing out the drill bit. I also notice you're using a brad point bit. For really hard woods like ebony, try a good standard point bit. If the lathe is spinning when you back out the bit, I have heard of exactly this type of thing happening. 
John


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## Displaced Canadian (Jan 26, 2012)

It is definitely not normal to break a bit that large no matter what the brand. How fast was the lathe turning? I drill as slow as my lathe will go and keep my hand on the drill chuck so I can feel if it's starting to bind or come out of the taper. If it does I turn it off and remove it by hand. I have found when drilling on the lathe you have to clear the wood chips more often. I'm entirely a self taught I read as much as I can, get what gear I can/need and dive in. When things go boom I check to see if anything is missing, try to find out what happened,(details can be fuzzy when all you remember is diving under the bench because something sailed past your ear.) and learn from it. Hope all this rambling helps, My money is on a bad drill bit. However if the drill chuck does start to spin keep as much of it as possible inside the taper.


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## Scooley01 (Jan 26, 2012)

I wasn't putting my hand on the chuck...which I now realize is a great idea!  Every now and then the bit will bind in the blank and start to spin the chuck...but using my hand I can feel it before that happens now!

I have to Live centers, and I stuck them in the head and tail today to see how off I am.  They don't quite come point to point, but it's just a hair difference.  The very tips barely go past each other...What I did notice, is when the headstock spins (by hand), there is a very very slight wobble to it.  As in, the tip of the center in the headstock makes little tiny circles instead of spinning in place.  It's easier to see when I put a mandrel in, because the motion gets bigger further away from the headstock, but I chalked it up to having a slightly bent mandrel, and replaced the mandrel rod.  I never even thought to recheck it with the new rod on there!

So that explains why the bits bind on occasion...although I'm not convinced that that's the only reason for the tailstock to go flying the other day.  I did check all my tapers to make sure they were clean.  There was a little piece of sawdust here and there but nothing major...they're spotless now!


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## RSQWhite (Jan 26, 2012)

Scooley01 said:


> I wasn't putting my hand on the chuck...which I now realize is a great idea!  Every now and then the bit will bind in the blank and start to spin the chuck...but using my hand I can feel it before that happens now!
> 
> I have to Live centers, and I stuck them in the head and tail today to see how off I am.  They don't quite come point to point, but it's just a hair difference.  The very tips barely go past each other...What I did notice, is when the headstock spins (by hand), there is a very very slight wobble to it.  As in, the tip of the center in the headstock makes little tiny circles instead of spinning in place.  It's easier to see when I put a mandrel in, because the motion gets bigger further away from the headstock, but I chalked it up to having a slightly bent mandrel, and replaced the mandrel rod.  I never even thought to recheck it with the new rod on there!
> 
> So that explains why the bits bind on occasion...although I'm not convinced that that's the only reason for the tailstock to go flying the other day.  I did check all my tapers to make sure they were clean.  There was a little piece of sawdust here and there but nothing major...they're spotless now!



My friend The drill chuck, when properly seated in the taper will not "bind in the blank and start to spin the chuck" The quill on your lathe is probably self ejecting therefore it must be advanced far enough to clear the stop before the drill chuck is inserted.


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## RSQWhite (Jan 26, 2012)

Scooley01 said:


> I was drilling some ebony a minute ago, and my brand new 10mm Gorilla Grind drill bit snapped in half, the drill chuck flew out of my lathe across the shop, which of course ripped my blank in half also.
> 
> I've never had a drill bit break on me...especially one this thick!  Is this something that I did wrong, or is this a shoddy part from PSI?  I'll be returning it either way, but it sets me back a bit which is disappointing   Does HF carry 10mm bits?



IMNSHO  This is a textbook case of operator error.  

Tim


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## sbell111 (Jan 27, 2012)

Some of you are being a little out of line.


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## glycerine (Jan 27, 2012)

RSQWhite said:


> Scooley01 said:
> 
> 
> > I wasn't putting my hand on the chuck...which I now realize is a great idea! Every now and then the bit will bind in the blank and start to spin the chuck...but using my hand I can feel it before that happens now!
> ...


 
Sure it will.  Unless you weld it in there or use a drawbar...


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