# 24 kt life long warrenty???



## attie schoeman

I purchased 25 kits with a life long warrenty on the 24 kt gold plating in November last year.I specially made a set ( pencil, pen and fountain pen) for myself to use and show off to friends and potential customers.Unfortunately I have found that now (after five months ) the gold plating is clearly showing wear. Is this a common problem? Fortunately I have not sold any yet. I gave treid to contact the supplier via their webpage but they simply dont reply.
I dont want to mention any names but I think it is common knowledge who sells these kits.I shall appreciate other members comments.
I have added two photos. My photografical skils are deffinately not the best, but if you look carefully you wil notice the wear on the middel pen.


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## rd_ab_penman

What is "Life Long Warranty"?
Life of the pen?
Life of the plating?

Les


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## gbpens

The only guarantee on 24kt gold is that it WILL wear off! If you want the look of gold then purchase the Ti-gold plated kits. In the meantime try returning the unused kits. Any decent vendor will stand behind their product.


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## thewishman

It is a big deal to have a plating wear off and then to ask the customer to return the pen - so you can take it apart and replace the worn parts. You then have to return it to the customer and prepare for the next time the plating wears off.

Will your customer want the hassle? Would they give that kind of a pen as a gift? Would they purchase again, after having that experience?

The lifetime guarantee on 24k plating is a gimmick - one that damages your relationship with your customer and devalues your reputation.


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## Swagopenturner

Name names!  If they don't want to stand behind their products, we don't want to buy from them!  Customer service is #1 in my book for all the suppliers I deal with, no matter what I am in the market for.


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## Smitty37

Call them - they are known for not being overly responsive to email.  I think they will replace the kits....


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## attie schoeman

*24 kt kits*

The website states as follow " LIFETIME GUARANTEE ON ALL 24 KT GOLD PLATED COMPONENTS"
Interestingly that within a few hours after mentioning my problem here, I recieved an agnoligement of reciept of my complaint lodged on 12 th April.
It is not my intention to use this site to act as a go between me and the supplier. I wish to discus the problem and know if this is a common problem??
Further..... well you asked for it.... I purchased the kits from "Penn State Industries"
Problem is, I am in South Africa, and of the 25 kits I have made 14 pens so far. So what do I do now, only one pen has been used daily and shows wear, do I return the lot ( including 11 unused kits) ??


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## ed4copies

I am not here to be an "apologist" for Penn State, however they have had that guarantee for nearly 20 years.  I used a fair number of those kits when nothing else was available (mid 1990's).  Never had one returned, although I sold a couple hundred, I would estimate.  

When gold titanium became available, I switched to that.

I have since heard they have an "epoxy-like" clear topcoat that protects the 24 kt. gold.

Don't know the specifics, but if many of the pens had failed in the last two decades, one might think Penn State would have abandoned their "guarantee".


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## Smitty37

ed4copies said:


> I am not here to be an "apologist" for Penn State, however they have had that guarantee for nearly 20 years.  I used a fair number of those kits when nothing else was available (mid 1990's).  Never had one returned, although I sold a couple hundred, I would estimate.
> 
> When gold titanium became available, I switched to that.
> 
> *I have since heard they have an "epoxy-like" clear topcoat that protects the 24 kt. gold.*
> 
> Don't know the specifics, but if many of the pens had failed in the last two decades, one might think Penn State would have abandoned their "guarantee".


You heard right,I have read that in their catalog Ed. It used to appear on the slimline page.

also that has been imitated by almost all component set makers who offer 24K gold.  I know every source I use apply's a clear epoxy over their 24K gold and most of their other 'softer' finishes as well.


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## Smitty37

attie schoeman said:


> The website states as follow " LIFETIME GUARANTEE ON ALL 24 KT GOLD PLATED COMPONENTS"
> Interestingly that within a few hours after mentioning my problem here, I recieved an agnoligement of reciept of my complaint lodged on 12 th April.
> It is not my intention to use this site to act as a go between me and the supplier. I wish to discus the problem and know if this is a common problem??
> Further..... well you asked for it.... I purchased the kits from "Penn State Industries"
> *Problem is, I am in South Africa, and of the 25 kits I have made 14 pens so far. So what do I do now, only one pen has been used daily and shows wear, do I return the lot ( including 11 unused kits)* ??


 That is a decision you'll have to make for yourself. 

My personal experience is that I have not had a problem with premature wear on 24K Gold kits.  Others will tell you they have.  

I can only tell you what I would do and that does you no good. It would only cost me $6.00 and a couple of days time if I sent them back..it will cost you a lot more both in cash and time. (and given the reliability of the South African Postal Service you might never ger the replacements).  You can only claim the warranty on the one that shows wear...so unless the others are still in the returnable time frame you probably can't return them.


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## Dave Turner

My own experience with real gold finishes is that the gold is too soft to wear over the long haul. My own every day carry pen from Woodcraft started showing wear after one year, causing me to "retire" it. I can accept that.

I no longer make pens with real gold finishes.  I think that gold titanium looks just as good and I have yet to wear one of these down.


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## attie schoeman

could you please explain the term "gold titanium " kits to me.
The only product I know is Titanium Nitride (TiN) which is actualy a ceramic material and is used as a coating to give a gold appearance


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## Dave Turner

I use the term "gold titanium" to refer to the gold-colored titanium nitride plating, which may be covered with a thin layer of gold to improve it's appearance.  When the gold wears off, it exposes the underlying TiN, which has the same color so the wear is not visible.

In contrast, I use "black titanium" to refer to the smoky colored titanium oxide, one of the hardest platings available.

I find that information on pen component platings is hard to come by and would welcome any insight from others. The posts I've read from those that actually order pen components from the Asian manufacturers seem to be the most helpful.


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## attie schoeman

What is "gold titanium" ??
If indeed better, how does prices compare?


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## attie schoeman

Thanks for the info Dave. Yes you are right, I also find a lack of info on plating.
To date I have made over 1000 pens ( I keep record of my purchases). In the past all my pens came iether from a local supplier or direct from china.I believe the local suppliers products also come from the East.( China Taiwan) On those pens I havent had a single comeback. Then I thought I would go one up, and try the gauranteed high quality one's, and , well , this is what happens.
They have offered to send me a replacement, but as you know, thats not easily done on my side to replace it on a finnished pen


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## Smitty37

attie schoeman said:


> Thanks for the info Dave. Yes you are right, I also find a lack of info on plating.
> To date I have made over 1000 pens ( I keep record of my purchases). In the past all my pens came iether from a local supplier or direct from china.*I believe the local suppliers products also come from the East.( China Taiwan)* On those pens I havent had a single comeback. Then I thought I would go one up, and try the gauranteed high quality one's, and , well , this is what happens.
> They have offered to send me a replacement, but as you know, thats not easily done on my side to replace it on a finnished pen


 It is pretty difficult to find component sets that do not come from either Taiwan or mainland China.  There are a few makers that specialize in particular materials (Sterling Silver, Stainless Steel, etc.) but other than that it's pretty much the Far East.  What you will find is that some (maybe all) providers also use the epoxy clearcoat on all or nearly all of their finishes to retard wear.  Some use what is often called "upgrade" gold...this can be 22K gold with additions to make it "harder", it can also be as low as 10K gold.  Solid !0K wears pretty well - lots of wedding rings are 10K but I'm not sure about plating. Before you buy "Platinum" ask the maker for their alloy - it might not have any platinum or even Rhodium in the mix.


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## bedangerous

I tell friends I give pens to that the pen has a lifetime warranty.
My lifetime!


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## sbell111

While we happily guarantee the pens we make and sell against this sort of wear, we've only had a few actually returned.  This was several years ago and the problem was related to the black finish on some Wall Street II kits.  These were easy fixes, obviously, and were clearly related to the pens taking a serious beating.

While I would still eat the repairs that were necessitated by such rough treatment, I don't think that it is unreasonable for an abused pen to suffer some plating damage.  This brings us back to the OP's pictures as those pens seem to have been used HARD.


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