# Owning Up



## Wooden_Pen_Turner_11 (Mar 1, 2014)

Jeff, Curtis, Ed, and the membership of the IAP,

There are times in your life when you'll experience extreme highs, and there are times when you bring yourselves into the extreme lows by making choices unbecoming of a good person. Whether it is for greed, excitement, or just to show you can, it's almost inevitable that you will at some point in your life let yourself and those around you down. What's worse than committing a crime? Not admitting to yourself or your peers that you have done wrong. Sometimes, even when you're cornered and there's no escape, you will try to fight your way out, clawing for some escape. I have made such mistakes in the very recent past.

In the auctions, I recently won the 8th Anniversary Blue Mug. It arrived broken before I was able to submit my payment, and I contacted Jeff about the problem. He told me that I wouldn't need to worry about the payment, and I was pretty happy to hear that he was going to eat the cost of the mug and shipping, even though it wasn't his fault - not because I wasn't willing to pay, but because he would be willing to take care of his IAP family. I decided that I wanted to repay him, so I bid in the 7th Anniversary Red Managers' Mug auction. There was only one way to guarantee that I would win it; I needed to grossly outbid myself and make that account disappear after the auction ended. In order to cover up my tracks, I also used this account to bid on a few other items in the various auctions.

After I won a few prizes in this year's Bash, I became pretty greedy. I wanted more and more rewards and thought it would be unnoticeable if I used a little help. When Curtis posted the new crossword, I used a fake account to first solve the puzzle before signing in under my username and submitting my time. Curtis and Jeff found out that I had used the same IP address of two different usernames and confronted me.

I told them everything but the truth in an effort to work my way around a punishment, but I knew I had been caught. I spent a day making excuses and trying to create a persona on the fake account that was so dissimilar to mine that it would throw the guys off. I made Jeff and his team waste hours searching for ways to convince themselves I was being honest, but they couldn't find any evidence. It's simple. There was none.


I admit that I:
- created the account [profile=TheoOMichael]Theo O'Michael[/profile].
- cheated in the auctions.
- cheated on the puzzle.
- lied to Curtis, Jeff, myself, and the members of the IAP.
- have made mistakes that are not acceptable or tolerated.
- should not be permitted to stay active in this community.


I am not asking for forgiveness, because I don't think I deserve it. I just wanted to let the membership know what I have done and own up to my mistakes. I'm sorry it took so long.


I'll be happy to read any comments you have, positive or negative. If you have any questions, I will answer them here in public.


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## plantman (Mar 1, 2014)

The bad thing about not telling the truth is the fact that you now have to remember the order in which you told the lies in the first place. The longer it goes on the deeper it gets. I am afraid I can not cast the first stone myself. After 70 years I have also made some bad choises along the way. It should be left up to the governing members of this site to make any ruling in your case. I can tell you however, that after reading this statement, the natural question comes up. Was the cup broken?? These other awards you list, were they gained fairly?? I'm not judgeing you, Someone else will do that later after our  life is over.   Jim  S


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## Wooden_Pen_Turner_11 (Mar 1, 2014)

plantman said:


> The bad thing about not telling the truth is the fact that you now have to remember the order in which you told the lies in the first place. The longer it goes on the deeper it gets. I am afraid I can not cast the first stone myself. After 70 years I have also made some bad choises along the way. It should be left up to the governing members of this site to make any ruling in your case. I can tell you however, that after reading this statement, the natural question comes up. Was the cup broken?? These other awards you list, were they gained fairly?? I'm not judgeing you, Someone else will do that later after our  life is over.   Jim  S


 

I understand your concern and the concerns others are probably having. The mug was broken as I described in a PM to Jeff and Ed. I had still planned on paying since it wasn't either of their faults, but Jeff told me not to worry about it. Some claimed that I cheated in the Wood Identification contest, and I'm not sure what to think about it. In one instance, the name of the wood was the attachment name, so I found it as soon as I clicked the picture. In the second, I utilized Google Images to find the answer.


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## Jim Burr (Mar 1, 2014)

JMHO Ryan, you stepped up to the plate with a public apology...admitted what you did. I wonder how many of us would have the intestinal fortitude to do the same. You're good in my book...fwiw.


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## Dalecamino (Mar 1, 2014)

I agree with Jim. We can all tell you what you should have done but, I think you know that now. I think your intensions were in line but, the plan wasn't. In my six years here, I've seen some outright deceit scams carried out. I don't think you had this in mind at all. Owning up, is good.


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## Band Saw Box (Mar 1, 2014)

Your did come forward and make the public apology and that is a big step and I know it was not easy for you. I would like you to be able to stay with us as I feel you have learned a lesson.


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## Dale Lynch (Mar 1, 2014)

I being a unfairly judgemental person with self esteem issues, I would self impose your last bolded statement.That bieng said, the community here is very forgiving.Especially when a person owns up to what they have done.You cheated and should be excluded from participating in any special events from here on as well as returning any ill gotten prizes.


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## truckfixr (Mar 1, 2014)

Far be it from me to cast the first stone. Only you know whether or not you will act differently in the future. My only thought is to wonder if you would  change your behavior if you hadn't been caught?


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## Wooden_Pen_Turner_11 (Mar 1, 2014)

Everyone has made fair posts and good points. I appreciate those of you who are willing to accept me and my mistakes as well as those of you who are trying to better the IAP.



truckfixr said:


> Far be it from me to cast the first stone. Only you know whether or not you will act differently in the future. My only thought is to wonder if you would  change your behavior if you hadn't been caught?


 
You raise a good point that I had to think about for a moment. I felt guilty from the beginning, but I truly don't know what would have happened if I wasn't caught. Honestly, I'm glad I was. Now that this has happened and I've forced myself to type this post, I will be more aware of actions and consequences.


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## Buzzzz4 (Mar 1, 2014)

Thank you for coming forward. It takes a lot to own up to something you've done wrong. A lesson I'm working on with my son. When you fess up to things, you become a more trustworthy person imho.


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## Mike Powell (Mar 1, 2014)

With the line of work I do, trust is a big piece of my life.  One mistake can cause injury or death to many.  Integrity goes a long way in my book, IF you decide to stay, you will have some proving to do to this wonderful community of people that give and give, but never expect anything in return.  

I do agree with you should be made to return any prizes you won threw your deceit.


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## glenspens (Mar 1, 2014)

For the most part I don't think you need to set out for life,  just set out next years bash and donate a gift for the bash . I also think a person needs to be a member for 90 days or more to take part in the bash or special events where you can win a something .


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## Lenny (Mar 1, 2014)

You are still young. I have always believed your high school (and college) years are about figuring out who you are and who you want to be. Life is full of choices, they determine who we will become. Every choice we make comes with consequences. Your choice today to come forward is a positive step and hopefully a life lesson you will carry with you in future decisions!


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## fisher (Mar 1, 2014)

Takes a devoted man to admit thing's weren't alway's right.It sho does feel good to admit wrong doing's.That's what iv'e learned in my life any how.
My wife say's lying is not the right thing to do ,cause the lie's get bigger and bigger ,then forgot what was lied about.
If i ever  try to tell fib to my parent's ,they would say don't even go there before i even opened my mouth.

Father say's don't even lie ,Cause you haven't done anything i haven't done .
It sure feel's good when your free of the burden .
Shalom!!


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## plano_harry (Mar 1, 2014)

Hey Ryan, you asked for forgiveness, I have to give it - because I have  been forgiven.  Like Jesus said - _don't do that any more._  Where you can  make restitution, do so.  I hope you keep making pens and sharing your  knowledge.  That's why I am here, to make better pens and teach others.

Harry


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## Swagopenturner (Mar 1, 2014)

I've made plenty of really bad decisions in my life, who hasn't?  The ones you have made, you have to deal with however you deem appropriate.  I will not judge you, but do admire you for coming forward and admitting to them.  THAT take alot of guts!


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## JohnGreco (Mar 1, 2014)

Ryan- I see you have Scouts listed as an interest in your profile. As a former scout and currently a proud father of a 5 year old boy, I look forward to him getting involved in Scouts and learning everything the group has to offer. I wonder if you have told your parents or your troop leaders, and what their reaction may have been (or would be). I know if you were my son, 'disappointed' would be fat too gentle a word.

Forgiveness is not mine to give; I was not wronged by your actions. You are the one who has to live each day with this, and I hope the take away is how to stay on the right path knowing the right path is not always the easy path.


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## 1080Wayne (Mar 1, 2014)

Well , I guess you broke your arrow , but you have taken the first step towards making a better one . Perhaps there was a bit too much pride taken in the first one .


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## mredburn (Mar 1, 2014)

Owning up to your problem is a start but I am not as nice as others. You cheated, you lied, and you came forward only after you were caught. You took advantage of the trust of a great community and  you should be banned, if not out right from IAP then from participating in any activity for a period of 2 years and on probation as a general member for that 2 years.  What you did insults every member that extends trust  and friendships to other members,and those that do follow the rules, and there are a great deal of them here that do that.  Maybe you can repair that but it will not and should not be easy.


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## southernclay (Mar 1, 2014)

I know that wasn't easy, I'm glad you are saying you are glad you got caught, you should be, it is the only way you can turn it into a positive. We all have planks in our eyes so it's not up to us to judge. The site leaders can figure out what's best for the IAP and glad it isn't my call either.

Whatever occurs grow from this, use it as a positive, don't keep looking back and don't keep making the same mistakes. I did a lot worse things when I was your age and older, I learned from them, have tried to use the values instilled in me through Christ and my parents to become a good man, I still fail, but I still try. Thanks for posting


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## markgum (Mar 1, 2014)

Thank you for telling us what is going on.  Now, let this be a life lesson, learn from it, share with those you teach and move forward.  Better review the scout law, oath and motto a few times each day.  As a father of 3 Eagle Scouts and Scoutmaster with 20+ Eagle Scouts, under my eye, you may want to share this at the next board of review.


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## Haynie (Mar 1, 2014)

A man stands behind his decisions right or wrong and owns them.  Accepts the punishments for the bad decisions without anger, excuse or blame.  Accepts the rewards for the good decisions humbly.

You screwed up.  You admitted it.  Now you get to own it.  This is Jeff's sandbox.  The general population here can put in their two cents but ultimately Jeff makes the decision.


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## Wooden_Pen_Turner_11 (Mar 1, 2014)

I appreciate everyone's input. Those of you that are scolding are right to do so, and those that are forgiving let my mind calm down for a minute while I read your replies. I did not receive any prizes unjustly, but I've read some great ideas in this thread. I'd like to hear from Jeff whenever he's not busy with the drawing.


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## Rounder (Mar 1, 2014)

1. You lied to a very trusting and great community of people.
2. You tried to lie about telling a lie.
3. You only came forward after being caught.

Lessons to learn:
1. Don't lie to people that trust you (or anyone for that matter).
2. Don't try to lie about the lie (catch 22).
3. Admit wrong doings BEFORE getting caught (best not to lie to begin with).

If you find you are digging yourself into a hole, STOP DIGGING!

If you are honest in all things, you don't have to worry if you are keeping up with the right lie.

Punishment is up to the moderators, you did waste a lot of their valuable time trying to cover for yourself. You deserve what they decide to punish you with.

Please learn a valuable life lesson from this, especially at your young age.

Think about this, how can the people here come to trust you again? What can you do to make it right? And WHY did you let it happen in the first place?:frown:

You are free to make the choices in life that you want to. But you are not free from the consequences!!!

Good Luck.


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## Wooden_Pen_Turner_11 (Mar 1, 2014)

The verdict is in. A three month ban, no participation in Birthday Bash 11, and my prizes will be donated to a few lucky winners.


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## eranox (Mar 1, 2014)

I know that you may not read this (save for possibly as a guest), but I wanted to chime in with this: the IAP is too good a resource to waste.  Keep reading, keep learning.  When your ban is up, I hope that you will return.  We all have valuable experience and opinions to share.  If it wasn't for second chances, I doubt any of us would have made it very far in life.  I can't speak for everyone, but I hope that in three months, I'll see you again, and you'll return as a better turner and a better man.  I suspect the latter is already well underway.

If it's of any consolation, I think your actions will help to make future events more foolproof, and will hopefully serve as a positive warning and a learning experience for all of our members.  I like to think that your experiences will springboard you on to become a better, more positive influence on the IAP than you might have been otherwise.


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## nava1uni (Mar 1, 2014)

I want to give you credit for coming forth and admitting your mistakes.  I think that the ban is reasonable and not participating in the next Bash seems reasonable.  I admire your courage and strength to write such a full explanation of what occurred.  Admitting that one is wrong is hard for everyone, but you did a very mature job of it.  I am sure that there is no one on this forum that hasn't been some bad judgment in their life.  I can assure that I have and not just one.  Those instances are the ones I learned the most from and continue to use the gained knowledge in my life today.
See you in a few months.


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## Mason Kuettel (Mar 2, 2014)

Rounder said:


> You are free to make the choices in life that you want to. But you are not free from the consequences!!!
> 
> Good Luck.


 
That was on the refrigerator most of my life...I still tell it to my students.  Great advice that holds true for good choices AND bad.


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## stonepecker (Mar 2, 2014)

Ryan,
A person is only as good as their word.  When your word is no good........they are no good.  Thay is only my opinion.   They say that actions speak louder then words.  Your actions have spoken volumes about you.

I can not forgive you.......it isn't my place.  Go and seek the forgiveness of those you have wronged.

Now I have to make a choice.  I am sad to say that I would prefer to have nothing to do with you in any way.  I can not allow you to be in my circle of friends because of your actions.  I choose to have positive and honest people in my life.

I hope that things here have taught you a life lesson that you will take to heart.  That you make the changes in your life to better yourself in the future.
I do wish you the best in your future.
Wayne


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## mikespenturningz (Mar 2, 2014)

Harry is absolutely right. You also have my forgiveness. We can and must forgive if we want to be forgiven. I will cast no stone either. The harlot that was dragged out in front of Jesus also didn't come of her own power but He also didn't condemn her. He told her to go and sin no more.


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## OLDMAN5050 (Mar 2, 2014)

We will not be forgiven out sins if we don't forgive those who sin against us.
However we have to accept the punishment for those wrongs. In my eyes you are forgiven. Come back in 90 days just don't do anything to void the trust of this community again. God bless.


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## tangoman (Mar 3, 2014)

I try and live by the parable of " the stoning of the woman at Canaa" from the bible in matters like this - let he who has not sinned cast the first stone".
Congratulations on finding the guts to publicly own up and remember this lesson for life.

Regards,
Cam


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## low_48 (Mar 3, 2014)

I am just amazed at the level of greed in our society today. Now I can't even trust penturners having some fun? Thanks for being another statistic for screwing up the trust on this site, Wooden_Pen_Turner_11. You aren't the first guy to play with people's trust on this site, but by adding your greed to the equation, it chips away at people's overall feeling about doing business here.


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## GDGeorge (Mar 3, 2014)

+1 Jim, Dan, and the rest who posted along those lines.  I prolly wouldn't have banned him for that long, but I don't disagree.  Personally, I hope we can all move past this though.  Every one <insert appropriate word starting with F and ending with s> up sometime or another.  Sometimes we're just lucky enough that people don't get killed.  

Jerry


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## Smitty37 (Mar 3, 2014)

Wooden_Pen_Turner_11 said:


> Jeff, Curtis, Ed, and the membership of the IAP,
> 
> There are times in your life when you'll experience extreme highs, and there are times when you bring yourselves into the extreme lows by making choices unbecoming of a good person. Whether it is for greed, excitement, or just to show you can, it's almost inevitable that you will at some point in your life let yourself and those around you down. What's worse than committing a crime? Not admitting to yourself or your peers that you have done wrong. Sometimes, even when you're cornered and there's no escape, you will try to fight your way out, clawing for some escape. I have made such mistakes in the very recent past.
> 
> ...


My religious faith says I must forgive you because I am forgiven.  If it's any consolation to you, I've done worse things in my life.


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## tbroye (Mar 3, 2014)

Leroy

Haven't we all, especially as a 17 year old and most as we have gotten older.  Looking at his profile he is a drum major in his high school which is a responsible position and he his active in Scouts.  He blew the Scout oath and Scout laws all to h***.  I am sure he feels terrible and will learn from it.  We all make mistakes and those who don't learn from them end up with a miserable life or even worse in prison, or in some case dead. I think the punishment that was handed out was fair and fitted the crime.  I can only wish him the be going forward.  Truly forgiving someone can you a freedom you would not believe.  I did it and my life was 1000 times better for it.


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## Smitty37 (Mar 3, 2014)

tbroye said:


> Leroy
> 
> Haven't we all, especially as a 17 year old and most as we have gotten older. Looking at his profile he is a drum major in his high school which is a responsible position and he his active in Scouts. He blew the Scout oath and Scout laws all to h***. I am sure he feels terrible and will learn from it. We all make mistakes and those who don't learn from them end up with a miserable life or even worse in prison, or in some case dead. I think the punishment that was handed out was fair and fitted the crime. I can only wish him the be going forward. Truly forgiving someone can you a freedom you would not believe. I did it and my life was 1000 times better for it.


Tom, I forgive unconditionally because I believe unconditionally. He said he does not deserve forgiveness.  He's wrong, he does.


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## edman2 (Mar 3, 2014)

Smitty37 said:


> tbroye said:
> 
> 
> > Leroy
> ...




Smitty,  I would suggest that he is correct. None of us deserve forgiveness but because of grace we get it though undeserved!  I hope he comes back when his time is up.  I hope we can extend grace to him.  That does not mean he does not pay for his actions.  But once he pays, grace would be in order from those who have received grace themselves!


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## Dan Masshardt (Mar 3, 2014)

This has kind of turned into a bit of a theological conversation ( which is right up my alley) and may or may not make the mods uncomfortable.  ;-)

I'm glad that so many of us here so readily tie together our faith convictions with our relationships to others.  

Regardless of any of our personal beliefs, everyone here has shown a good balance between extending grace while upholding the importance of truth.  

This is a good community.


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## randywa (Mar 3, 2014)

I suspect that Ryan learned some lessons that will help shape his future. I was a lot older than him when I started to grow up and get right, but the teachers weren't as gentle as the ones he has here.


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## NittanyLion (Mar 3, 2014)

I only wish we had the whole truth.  Is he really 17, a boy scout, drum major, etc? He asked for forgiveness only because he was caught and didn't want banned.  I struggle with that.  I believe their is still more he hasn't admitted to, even when he had the chance.....I saw it first hand when I was involved in a transaction with him.  For this, I think a few months is not enough.  Only the admins know the full extent of this, and I trust in them that his punishment will be appropriate.


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## alphageek (Mar 3, 2014)

NittanyLion said:


> I only wish we had the whole truth.  Is he really 17, a boy scout, drum major, etc? He asked for forgiveness only because he was caught and didn't want banned.  I struggle with that.  I believe their is still more he hasn't admitted to, even when he had the chance.....I saw it first hand when I was involved in a transaction with him.  For this, I think a few months is not enough.  Only the admins know the full extent of this, and I trust in them that his punishment will be appropriate.



If you hasn't shared your transaction issues with Jeff, I suggest you do so.


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## Smitty37 (Mar 3, 2014)

edman2 said:


> Smitty37 said:
> 
> 
> > tbroye said:
> ...


Well we aren't to discuss religion here so I'm not going to debate, pushed the rulls a little already.


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## jcm71 (Mar 3, 2014)

FWIW, he did honor his Super Bowl commitment.  I am very pleased with the blanks (6) that he sent me.  I'm with Smitty here.  I have done so much worse in my life of which i am terribly ashamed.  That being said, I am also with NittanyLion. Is he really 17?  The wording of his apology, although not impossible, seems very improbable for a 17 year old.  As for his punishment: I defer to the good judgment of our moderators who know the specifics.


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## Bob Wemm (Mar 4, 2014)

First of all let me say that I accept that everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
I have followed this closely and have been loathe to get involved, but the more I think about it the more angry I become.

Here we have a person who deliberately set out to DEFRAUD the IAP Community, and especially the Bash Celebration. A very special month for a lot of people and a hell of a lot of work for the Bash organisers and all the contest co-ordinators.

At his own admission, he did not say that he would have stopped unless he was caught/discovered. That tells me that the only reason he has "Owned Up" is because he was found out. I sincerely doubt that he is sorry for the mess that he has caused and is saying that he is sorry only because he was caught.

There will need to be much planning in the future to stop this sort of thing happening again. There has already been "Tongue-in-cheek" comments about creating artificial memberships to get more votes in the pen contests. I doubt that the measures suggested in those comments are feasible, but I can think of a way around those restrictions, so nothing is impossible. Where to from here???

How can we believe anything this person says??

I am not a vindictive person, nor am I an angel, but I know without doubt that I have paid the consequences for my indiscretions, which have been much less than that occurring in this situation.

I feel very sad that modern society accepts that when "Caught out" you simply say SORRY and that is the end of it.

In my humble opinion the penalty should have been permanent expulsion.
BUT, like I said, everybody is entitled to their own opinion.

Bob.


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## toddlajoie (Mar 4, 2014)

Bob, I understand your sentiment, and I was not sure I had anything to add to this conversation, as it has covered many aspects of this from many angles, but I would say that the one thing that strikes me is this. 

He came on here, owned up, and took his consequences publicly. Being an online forum, nothing ties anyone to this place short of the owners/moderators. He could just as easily have cut and run, just disappearing, and that would have been the easy thing to do. I think that since the actions had such a public and noticeable affect on the auctions, what caused it would have certainly come out, but I would bet that the team would have done everything they could to protect the real identity of this person. So to me, coming here and publicly stating what he has admitted to shows that he values his ability to be a member on this forum.

There is quite a bit of psychology behind the stages of owning up to one's transgressions, and it is very common for these revelations to happen over time, so I am not bothered by the fact that he may not have come clean on EVERYTHING right away, as I'm aware of how the mind protects itself in situations like this. 

In my life there have been situations where I have unconditionally forgiven people for their actions (and had the same done for me) and times when I have decided for my own interests that I had to sever ties with someone for what they have done. These were always very personal decisions based on many factors. 

An online community like this is not a single person, so I think the Admin team decided well in giving a fixed punishment, and allowing him to return afterwards if that is his choice. It is up to the individual members to decide the lasting effects of his actions. Some will write him off, put him on the ignore list, never respond to him, etc. I don't think anyone can blame them for that. Some will forgive him and go on, giving him a clean slate and taking the chance that they may be burned again, maybe with a little more attention being paid to putting them in the position to be burned. I am this type of person, and I accept the fact that it is my fault if I allow myself to get burned by him in the future.

I would never tell people how to behave toward another person in a situation like this, as I understand that each person's life history affects how they react in these situations, but I would hope that the members who feel strongly about this situation and feel he should not have been able to return can find it in themselves to just leave him alone when and if he returns. His return would validate the value of this place to him (it won't be easy for him, nor should it be), but I would hate to see people constantly bringing this situation into everything he gets involved in. As a community we need to move forward.


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## Scotty (Mar 4, 2014)

I would like to say a big thanks to Jeff and his team for their cool heads and hard work in all this.


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## Smitty37 (Mar 4, 2014)

Bob Wemm said:


> I feel very sad that modern society accepts that when "Caught out" you simply say SORRY and that is the end of it.
> 
> 
> Bob.


 I forgave his transgression - that does not mean he should get off scott free with no consequences.  Those who should decide on what the consequences will be have spoken on that matter.


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## low_48 (Mar 4, 2014)

toddlajoie said:


> Bob, I understand your sentiment, and I was not sure I had anything to add to this conversation, as it has covered many aspects of this from many angles, but I would say that the one thing that strikes me is this.
> 
> He came on here, owned up, and took his consequences publicly. Being an online forum, nothing ties anyone to this place short of the owners/moderators. He could just as easily have cut and run, just disappearing, and that would have been the easy thing to do. I think that since the actions had such a public and noticeable affect on the auctions, what caused it would have certainly come out, but I would bet that the team would have done everything they could to protect the real identity of this person. So to me, coming here and publicly stating what he has admitted to shows that he values his ability to be a member on this forum.
> 
> ...



What makes you think he will come back with the same name for us to identify him? Why would he? We know he's good at creating new names and identities.


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## JohnGreco (Mar 4, 2014)

Last night I saw an All in the Family re-run. Archie had somebody passing fake $10's in his bar, and he was able to figure out who it was. A patron, dressed in a santa suit, who had been laid off 2 years prior and was using fake $10's his uncle had given him. Archie tried to do the right thing in the spirit of the Holiday (apparently originally aired around Christmas) and let the guy go. 

Then he watched the guy drive off in his brand new Cadillac.

Maybe we're too quick to forgive people we don't really know? I don't know the answer to that, but the episode hit a tone of irony with me considering what's been going on here.


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## Smitty37 (Mar 4, 2014)

*Stuff*

I remember reading a newspaper story around thirty or so years ago about a death - an older man died while panhandling where he'd panhandled for years, he had an address on him and when they contacted his home, it was a large expensive house in a high class neighborhood.  He was a well thought of resident who had lived in that area for years.


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