# Why is the DMV so difficult to deal with



## Carl Fisher (Jul 29, 2013)

My brief rant for today. 

It's not like we have any alternative.  If you want to drive and/or own a car, you have no alternative but the state run DMV.

I've now been on hold for 2 hours solid waiting for someone to pick up the phone and help us deal with a title issue.  Our previous lien holder sent payoff information back in 2009 for my truck but the DMV never sent us a title and ultimately suspended the title. 


Partly my fault for never realizing that it didn't make it to me, but that's an oversight on my end from 4 years ago.  I can't remember what I had for dinner the previous day most of the time let alone 4 years back.


So now we are trying to resolve this so we can sell the truck.  DMV in person wouldn't work with my wife today and told us there was nothing they could do.  The former lien holder can't do anything but issue another payoff notice, which they have already done to the DMV. 


So for the last 7 years (since we moved to SC) they've been taxing me and taking my registration for a vehicle that has a suspended title which ultimately is not sell-able if nobody can resolve this situation.


I just don't understand why we can't speak with someone with enough common sense to stop, think about what they are doing, and realize how stupid the situation is and ultimately just fix it.


*sigh*


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## John Pratt (Jul 29, 2013)

I hear your pain. I grew up in Iowa and the state run DMV was much the same. Here in Oklahoma the tag agencies are privately run (with state oversight and rules) and the problems are much fewer. I don't think I have ever waited more than 15 minutes for service and they always serve you with a smile on thier face. I know, and they also know, that there are a lot of other tag agencies in my area that I can go to if they don't want to serve me properly.


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## walshjp17 (Jul 29, 2013)

THe problems with state-run agencies such as DMV is that the employees are underpaid, often unionized and are harassed by customers and management alike. They do not like their jobs and they take it out on us, the customers.  Certain states -- Oklahoma and Pennsylvania are two -- have outsourced the tag portion and it seems to make it a bit better, but not always.  North Carolina also outsourced the tag process, but it is a bureaucratic nightmare.

Maryland is the worse -- I won't go into their problems because I would have to take more blood pressure meds if I did -- and Virginia is one of the better.


Remember, to these people, a rule is a rule and it must be obeyed at all costs -- unless they break it then it is always someone else's fault; Next!


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## Glen Schumann (Jul 29, 2013)

Two words: they're bureaucrats!

Those really annoy me.


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## Scruffy (Jul 29, 2013)

*I am not sure about being underpaid..*

They have unlimited sick days, extremely good vacation, lots of holidays, very good medical, ...

For the number of hours they are at work and the demands of their jobs, I think they are very well paid.  They just deliver value for value paid.


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## randyrls (Jul 29, 2013)

walshjp17 said:


> Certain states -- Oklahoma and Pennsylvania are two -- have outsourced the tag portion and it seems to make it a bit better, but not always.




I've never had a problem with the PA DMV aka PennDot, but I go to their main office early in the morning before the rush starts.  a friendly attitude works wonders too!


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## Carl Fisher (Jul 29, 2013)

I've never been angry in front of a DMV worker though no matter how many buttons they push.  I'm always as polite as I can be while in the office.  I vent when I leave 

Found out that I have to actually get a paper title (not an etitile) from Florida first and then go back to them to get the SC title.  They actually didn't understand how I could have ever registered my vehicle 7 years ago without the Florida title.  

Oh well.  The biggest loss in this was losing 2 buyers who were ready to pay cash site unseen at my asking price.  Both thought I was flaky and walked away.  My black eye for missing the boat several years back.


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## edicehouse (Jul 29, 2013)

DMV changed my address to and address I have not been at in over 10 years....


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## Haynie (Jul 29, 2013)

Carl Fisher said:


> It's not like we have any alternative.  If you want to drive and/or own a car, you have no alternative but the state run DMV.



That would be the answer to your question.  I tried to get a hold of our DMV last week.  Every day.  There is only one number for the entire state.  

1 minute before 8:00am "Please call back during regular hours"
10 seconds after 8:00 am a busy signal.

Go to the DMV office and they tell you to call the number, they are not equipped to deal with a VIN error that happened 10+ years ago, and the original owner is deceased.


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## Jgrden (Jul 29, 2013)

Move to Florida. They take your money quickly and in comfort.


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## fritz64 (Jul 29, 2013)

here in mi. I can go to office in Manistee and walk out in 5 mjnutes with a smile.


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## Smitty37 (Jul 29, 2013)

walshjp17 said:


> *THe problems with state-run agencies such as DMV is that the employees are underpaid, often unionized and are harassed by customers and management alike.*



That, I would disagree - depending on which study you look at, government employees at all levels (Federal, State and Local) are paid as well as private sector and often better when all compensation and benefits are included. 


It's hard to figure out exactly what is covered because the cost of health insurance, vacations, paid holidays, sick pay and other benefits are often not included and all is shown is a "wage" differential which is meaningless.


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## Smitty37 (Jul 29, 2013)

*Delaware*

Here it is really good for routine business (it used to be terrible until about a year ago..  

But, heaven help you if you have something unusual.  Titles can be especially toxic.  Particularily if you have a lease/buy where the lein holder is holding the title and is located in another state.  


That situation occurred when I moved here with a Ford pickup truck purchased in PA., titled in NY with the lein holder (who also had the title) office covering NY located in OH (I think).  I turned the vehicle in here in DE at the end of the lease.  The poor dealer didn't have a clue what to do.  It took them 3 months to get the title so they could resell the vehicle.


The lenders don't help much either, some want to hold the title other just record a lien on it and you have it.  Some automatically issue a release when you pay it off others, you have to request it. Some tell you to make sure you go immediately to the DMV and get the title cleared, others tell you it doesn't matter until you sell the vehicle (and of course we all forget that one).


But many of us have had similar experiences and of course the employees at DMV don't know how to handle it---usually their supervisor doesn't either and sometimes I think that no one employed by the State of Delaware up to and including the Governor or SAG knows.


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## Jim Burr (Jul 29, 2013)

Trying to fire one of those people is impossible, they're union, they know it and they don't care. If you don't like what they do or say, get in the back of the line and shut up. Most useless people on the planet.


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## Carl Fisher (Jul 30, 2013)

Smitty37 said:


> Here it is really good for routine business (it used to be terrible until about a year ago..
> 
> But, heaven help you if you have something unusual.  Titles can be especially toxic.  Particularily if you have a lease/buy where the lein holder is holding the title and is located in another state.
> 
> ...



That sounds so much like this current situation.

After much calling and hair pulling yesterday we finally got to the bottom of what happened and a game plan for how to fix it.

Truck was purchased in Florida and they hold the title with the lien information.  I moved to SC.  Truck was paid off while I lived in SC so the lien holder sent the release to my current home state of SC and not the title holding state of Florida.  So Florida never received the payoff and have been sitting on the title for the last 4 years and SC suspended the title pending receiving the original Florida title.  Apparently SC was happy to register me 7 years ago with nothing but my Florida registration instead of requiring the title.

So I had to contact the lien holder and get them to send a release to Florida.  Then I have to pay Florida for a paper title (yes, pay $75 for it).  Once I receive the paper title from Florida, I have to take that and the lien holders release to SC to re-title it in SC.  Only THEN can I sell it.

It wouldn't be so bad if I wasn't having to deal with 2 DMVs from 2 different states.


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## Smitty37 (Jul 30, 2013)

Carl Fisher said:


> Smitty37 said:
> 
> 
> > Here it is really good for routine business (it used to be terrible until about a year ago..
> ...


Yep that's what happened with me..only since the truck was a lease/buy and I was just turning it in, the dealer had the hassel.


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## sbell111 (Jul 30, 2013)

Scruffy said:


> They have unlimited sick days, extremely good vacation, lots of holidays, very good medical, ...





Jim Burr said:


> Trying to fire one of those people is impossible, they're union,


I don't know what states you guys live in, but I can tell you that those employees in my state do not have unlitited sick days.  They earn a sick day each month.  Those that have been in the job less than five years or so also earn a vacation day per month.  Their medical insurance is nothing to brag about.  The cost of it goes up year after year, as does the copays, deductables, and extra 'wellness' hoops.  Their starting pay is above the poverty line, but not that much above.  They also aren't union.  In fact, the state has changes civil service rules in the last few years making it somewhat easy to fire people without recourse.


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## randyrls (Jul 30, 2013)

Carl Fisher said:


> Oh well.  The biggest loss in this was losing 2 buyers who were ready to pay cash site unseen at my asking price.  Both thought I was flaky and walked away.  My black eye for missing the boat several years back.



Carl;  There is a scam / fraud that may have scared off the buyers.  I think that you are honest, but not everyone is.

A vehicle is involved in flooding, so the insurance company totals the vehicle and the state DMV marks the title as totaled / flood damage.  Here's when the fraud comes in.  An unscrupulous person buys the car for parts or scrap prices, fixes it up to remove the evidence of damage, moves it to another state and gets a new "clean" title to the car and then sells it to an unsuspecting buyer when doesn't know that in a  year or two he will have many mysterious problems.


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## Smitty37 (Jul 30, 2013)

sbell111 said:


> Scruffy said:
> 
> 
> > They have unlimited sick days, extremely good vacation, lots of holidays, very good medical, ...
> ...


Steve, state employee compensation does vary widely from state to state and Tennessee is not one of the higher compensation states. 

For instance you mentioned earning 1 sick day per month - that is 12 days per year and here in Delaware it is 15 per year.  In addition, in Delaware unused sick days can be taken as vacation days (Delaware vacation is 21 days per year and 12 paid holidays) That is 47 paid days off per year in Delaware vs not more than 36 in Tennessee.


You also mentioned Health insurance, Delaware state workers have a choice of about 10 different plans valued at from $5000 to $12,000 per year with the cost to the employee ranging from $0 to about $2400 per year.  The value to the average state worker is in the range of $8000 per year.  I don't know how Tennessee actually stacks up to that.


BTW the median salary per state emloyee in Tennessee in 2012 was $42,723 and the median private sector employee there was $44,255 so State employee wage compensation is pretty much comparable to private sector.  


In general, I think that employees of southern states east of the Mississippi probably have lower compensation than most of the country.  But here in Delaware state employees are very well paid.


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## OLDMAN5050 (Jul 30, 2013)

*Why is the DMV so difficult to deal with


Because they can be, and they must enjoy it....
*


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