# I am Fed Up



## jttheclockman (Feb 11, 2009)

I am at my limit with my old printer. I need a new one to go with my new computer. What do I buy???  I know technology changes every day but what is a good unit that will give me decent color photos and colored prints???  Should I look at laser or ink jet???  Do not want to look like too big of an idiot when walking into one of those electronic stores. What do I look for??? Thanks for the help.


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## Daniel (Feb 11, 2009)

I have been looking at printers lately also. for home use pretty much plan to stay with inkjet. laser printers up the anty buy about X3 in price. they are nice when it comes to toner lasting forever though.
I have been looking closely at lexmark inkjet printers. They have good reports on the newer ones with a couple getting best review from various sources. 
I don't have the url but I did see a report on one of them on an internet printer watch dog type site. basically you could find reviews on just about any printer known there. they appeared to be pretty honest as well and not everything they had to say was good. not even about the lexmarks. the main neg was that the smaller models are light weight which made them feel cheesy but they still functioned very well. the only other complaint was a poor paper outfeed tray that allowed the paper to fall to the floor. it did pass a test where they tried to feed paper in as crooked as they could and the printer still managed to feed it correctly. this has been my biggest gripe about printers to this day. they also listed claimed print speeds and actual print speeds. the lexmark they where reporting on was collasal slow at printing high resolution color prints. otherwise it did at least acceptable.
I do have one feature that I am looking for that many would not. i need a wireless printer, and this may have had some impact on me ending up at the lexmark as well.
I currently own a lexmark that has been working pretty much just fine for about 4 years and it was a 40 or 50 dollar printer at that time.


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## Pen Maker (Feb 11, 2009)

Laser:
http://www.google.com/products/cata...e=UTF-8&cid=13740165279803217355#ps-sellers''

Inkjet:
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=5493710

Laser printers refills tend to be about the same prices as Inkjet refills.

Lasers product very decent quality prints and Inks don't run. Inkjets give a little better image quality but the inks do run and fade faster than the lasers do. The ink on inkjets are not heated onto the paper. These two printers give great results and are inexpensive. Asking which one is like asking which is better Ford or Chevy. Staples usually have the best deals on Sunday. Check the fliers for best pricing on which format you prefer. If you don't print a lot the cartridges dry out at the nozzles. If you print a lot the laser will be the more costly to maintain.


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## Pen Maker (Feb 11, 2009)

Unless your wanting to spend a fortune, stay away from Lexmark. YMMV but probably won't. If you want wireless capability a 50 dollar add-on USB wireless 'print server' will serve that purpose. Built-in Wireless models kick up the ante considerably.


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## jttheclockman (Feb 11, 2009)

I had a HP and was very happy with it over the years but since my new computer there are no drivers for the update so it is time to go. Any comments on HP units???


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## toolcrazy (Feb 11, 2009)

I was looking at color lasers and when you need to buy 4 refills at $100 bucks each, they are not worth it for home/home business use.

On that note, we will only buy Epson printers. We have bought Lexmark, HP, and cannon and all of them crapped out on us in record time. Our first Epson got so old that we couldn't find decent cartridges for it, so we finally had to upgrade. It still worked perfect, even then. Our second one was replaced due to we out grew it. It just couldn't keep up with our needs. Not the fault of the printer, our fault to not buying one that fit our needs. We gave it away and still works to this day. Our current Epson, we use and abuse and it works as well as the first day we hooked it up. We have it on a print server so two of us use it daily.


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## Randy_ (Feb 11, 2009)

I haven't looked at printers in a couple of years; but it was my impression back then that the Lexmark printers were among the least expensive; but the ink cartridges were among the most expensive.​

Unless your printer use is very light, you will end up spending a lot more money on ink than you will on the actual printer, itself. So take a careful look at the number of copies you will be making and know what your ink cost are likely to be.​


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## ldb2000 (Feb 12, 2009)

Color Laser is the way to go . Price per print is much cheaper with Laser . An average toner cart will yield about 2000 pages , so @ $100 (round numbers) your price per page is $0.05 .
The other nice thing about Laser is that the toner can't dry out . With a inkjet printer , if you don't print on a regular basis the ink can dry and clog the print head , this don't happen with Laser .
I have a Samsung Color Laser and love it , I print everything from the kids homework to Color Catalogs and sales flyer's and it only cost around $200 w/toner carts . Oh , and it came with wireless networking built in so I can print from the family computer and my shop computer .


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## Pen Maker (Feb 12, 2009)

Can't Go Wrong !!!!!! This is not the wireless model, but it's a remarkable printer for approx. 10 to 20 sheets a day. If you want wireless you can always buy the enhanced model, or better yet buy the print server that matches your router. Linksys, Netgear, etc. another 50~60 dollars. It will then literately jump on your network. Hassel Free.

Printer Item Number 290294658999 139.99 Free Shipping New In Box


Refills Item Number 350164934063 49.99 plus shipping 4 colors


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## ldb2000 (Feb 12, 2009)

That's a excellent entry level printer . The price is great and the price for the toner is fantastic .


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## Rudy Vey (Feb 12, 2009)

Had two Lexmarks and now a Epson CX5400 for some 5 years. The Lexmarks crapped out within a year or two -  I had leaking ink cartridges in both cases - very messy. if the Epson goes, I am looking also into a color laser, they have come down in price quite good in the last years.


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## Chasper (Feb 12, 2009)

My thoughts about printers:
1.  Printers are a disposable piece of equipment, 2-3 years is a reasonable life expectancy.
2.  Don't even bother trying to print keeper photos on a home printer, get a cheaper printer and have your prints made by Kodak
3.  $150 is the top end price for a printer, under $100 is reasonable.  For $150 you should get be able to get a combo printer, fax, copy machine and scanner.
4.  If you are using dozens of ink cartridges every year, you are printing too much.  Do you really need a paper copy of everything?


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## jttheclockman (Feb 12, 2009)

I make copies or plans or patterns for scrollsawn items so I do use alot of copies. Granted alot are black and white but I also make colored copies so I can send to clients or use as ads. I do use a camera lab for personal photos. There is supposedbly a difference in laser copiers and inkjet copiers. Which ones are better I do not know and do not know the reasons why. That i why I am asking for a little input. Thanks for the replys.


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## GaryMadore (Feb 12, 2009)

I honestly think that all of the well-known printers (the names have already been mentioned) are pretty much equal within a given price-range. What I mean to say is that if you buy a, say, $200 printer, it doesn't matter if it's an HP, Canon, Lexmark, Epson, whatever.

What I do know, though, is that I haven't bought replacement ink cartridges for years: We're to the point where printers are disposable because you can buy a new printer (with ink in the box) on special for less that you pay for the ink itself. It's bizarre, but that's the way it is. My last HP photo printer cost me $29 at Futureshop.

What does this mean? Well, to me it means that longevity, durability, etc., are no longer considerations when it comes to selecting a printer: I look for the loss-leaders and (perhaps irresponsibly, from a "Green" point of view) toss the old ones in the trash.

Cheers!

Gary (gonna go laser, soon, for document printing)


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## sbell111 (Feb 12, 2009)

jttheclockman said:


> I had a HP and was very happy with it over the years but since my new computer there are no drivers for the update so it is time to go. Any comments on HP units???


You should be able to download old printer drivers from the HP website.  A quick search turned up new drivers for the old HP 4L that we bought in 1992.  I bet that your printers drivers can be found either on HP's site or somewhere else online such as driverguide.com.

Regarding the OP, our current printer solution is twofold.  For black and white prints we favor HP laser printers.  For the last several years, our workhorse has been an old LaserJet 8000 (upgraded to duplex).  For color printing, we prefer Canon inkjets.  It is important, in my opinion, to have seperate ink tanks for each color so you don't pay to replace a color before you need to.  Also, the more ink tanks the better, in my opinion.  Our Canon PIXMA iP6600D uses six seperate ink tanks and does a very good job at printing pics, in my opinion.

Both of these printers are connected to a wireless print server so we can print to them from any computer on our network.


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## Verne (Feb 12, 2009)

John,
We just got a new HP Officejet Pro L7580 (probably obsolete now) to hook up with HP Pavilion and it is great. Ah, so far! It does a lot more than I'll ever use it for but so far so good.
Just my two cents worth and keep the change,
Vern


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## MobilMan (Feb 12, 2009)

Make them wirelesshttp://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/store_access.do?product_code=Q6236A%23A2L&template_type=product_detail&aoid=43947&hhosnl=hpn_1546|748358|D389BBC24867EB2E|61FC58B8BB05EF6F1F8D1F60FC8AD3E9


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## MobilMan (Feb 12, 2009)

HP has a wireless adapter kit for $70.00 to make most any printer wireless.  Tried to copy/paste but it didn't work.


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## Russianwolf (Feb 12, 2009)

I favor the Canon printers since the color inks come in seprarate cartridges. Meaning you change only one color at a time, not throwing away ink.


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## sbell111 (Feb 12, 2009)

MobilMan said:


> HP has a wireless adapter kit for $70.00 to make most any printer wireless.  Tried to copy/paste but it didn't work.



We use a Dlink wireless print server to perform this job.  It works great.


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## NewLondon88 (Feb 12, 2009)

GaryMadore said:


> What I do know, though, is that I haven't bought replacement ink cartridges for years: We're to the point where printers are disposable because you can buy a new printer (with ink in the box) on special for less that you pay for the ink itself. It's bizarre, but that's the way it is. My last HP photo printer cost me $29 at Futureshop.
> 
> What does this mean? Well, to me it means that longevity, durability, etc., are no longer considerations when it comes to selecting a printer: I look for the loss-leaders and (perhaps irresponsibly, from a "Green" point of view) toss the old ones in the trash.



Longevity used to be an issue for the manufacturers. It still is, only now it
goes the other way. Planned obsolescence is not the norm.

When printers were only purchased by offices (and the occasional
tech-geek like me) they were expensive, rugged and built to last.
But if a printer is built to last, who would buy one once the market is
saturated?

Today's printers are NOT built to last, and the operating systems will
gradually kick your printer off the list of compatible equipment. SO now you
need to buy a new one.

How can printers be so cheap?  Easy You pay about $50,000.00 / gal.
for the ink.


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## sbell111 (Feb 12, 2009)

NewLondon88 said:


> Longevity used to be an issue for the manufacturers. It still is, only now it goes the other way. Planned obsolescence is not the norm.
> 
> When printers were only purchased by offices (and the occasional
> tech-geek like me) they were expensive, rugged and built to last.
> ...


That may be true about some printer manufacturers, but I don't find it to be true regarding HP and Canon.  Every HP laser printer that I've purchased has been awesome and has lasted for many years.  In fact, I've only every replaced HP laserjets or Canon inkjets to take advantage of advantages in speed or quality.  I've then either sold or given away the old printer.

The HP 4L that we bought in 1992 is still used daily by my brother.





NewLondon88 said:


> Today's printers are NOT built to last, and the operating systems will gradually kick your printer off the list of compatible equipment. SO now you need to buy a new one.


As I explained in my earlier post, the drivers for that old HP 4L are still available on HP's website for all Windows operating systems.

It's true that I can't seem to find Vista drivers for my first color printer, a Canon BJC-100.   Surprisingly, Lasermonks still carries ink for it.  Of course, the print quality in that old printer was so bad that no one would actually not want to upgrade it.





NewLondon88 said:


> How can printers be so cheap?  Easy You pay about $50,000.00 / gal. for the ink.


You get what you pay for.  cheap printers are inexpensive.  Printers that are built to last for some years and print well cast more.


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## NewLondon88 (Feb 12, 2009)

sbell111 said:


> That may be true about some printer manufacturers, but I don't find it to be true regarding HP and Canon.  Every HP laser printer that I've purchased has been awesome and has lasted for many years.  In fact, I've only every replaced HP laserjets or Canon inkjets to take advantage of advantages in speed or quality.  I've then either sold or given away the old printer.



I find it especially true of HP. Up until the laserjet 5's, they were fine. But
you're talking about the beginning of the consumer entry into a market that
was previously just businesses. I still have a working 4P, but the 5L and 6L
felt like toys and didn't hold up that well.
My older (early 90's) HP inkjets are still working .. 500C (but who wants to
use that?) and an 1120C run fine. But the Photosmart feels like it will fall
apart if you pick it up, the 1320 laserjet seems to jam if you look at it
wrong and it prints blank in the middle (repair costs more than a new
printer) and the 3330 is still cranking out faxes and envelopes..

Ah well ..


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## ed4copies (Feb 12, 2009)

Well guys, 

You're on my turf.

But I don't screw around with 100 per month users. I believe the "concensus" here is that the small printers are "all alike". Somewhat true. The small INKS are NOT "all alike". Before you BUY a printer, find out what the yield (in copies) and the price will be. Divide the price by the yield, you have a cost per copy. IF you are running 500 a year, you probably don't CARE what the cost per copy is. IF you are running a couple hundred a WEEK, the homework is worth it.

REMEMBER, generic toner WILL work in most printers. The more you USE the printer, the better the chance the generic will work just as well as the OEM. SAVE lots of money if you use generics, bought on-line. My printer at home costs $3 per little tiny color cartridge - that lasts a couple months ( I print at home rarely). (Canon Pixma - yes, it's OK)

At the office I print a LOT more - in my office for my personal use - HPOfficeproC550 - inkjet, good print quality - runs FAST -- ok

Three different production machines attached to the computer I am typing on now. Cost per copy under one cent on each (b&w), but that's based on thousands of copies per month (by everyone in the office).

MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION--how many prints are we making per month???

Then, go to Staples website and you will find the cost and yield of the printer you are looking at - do a comparison - figure a three year life on the printer - you may get more, but in 3 years, you will probably be tired of looking at it and want the newest "gizmo".

If you gain nothing else from this post, DO go to Staples for yields -- they are pretty accurate. The nice man trying to sell you the machine at your local office supply store will make up answers as he goes along - usually wrong.

Good luck, the good news is all printers from major manufacturers are pretty good, these days. And cheap does NOT mean BAD!!


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## nava1uni (Feb 12, 2009)

I just bought an HP C4580 last month at Best Buy for about $100.  It scans, copies and prints and I can get ink in larger then usual sizes for lots of copies.  Works really nice and is holding up to my kids making lots of copies for school.  Forgot to mention that it is also wireless and I have two computers hooked up to it.


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## rodsaw (Feb 12, 2009)

If you are looking to print color, the inkjet is the way to go for home users.  The ink jet printers have much better color quality than color lasers unless you get into workgroup lasers, especially on standard papers.  Besides the need for four toner cartridges with lasers, the time it takes a color laser to warm up and calibrate can be several minutes (4-5 minutes to first page out is not uncommon).  Another thing to watch for on lasers (color or b&w) is what the capacity of the toner cartridges is.  Many of the entry level color lasers include starter cartridges that are only 500-1000 page capacity.  This brings the initial cost of the printer down, but you have to replace the cartridges very shortly after purchasing the printer.  Even though ink cartridges are expensive, you can buy plenty of ink cartridges compared to one set of color toner cartridges.

For inkjets, I personally use a HP J6480 multi-function (print/scan/copy/fax).  It does photo quality prints if that is what you are looking for.  It has a document feeder, so faxing multiple pages is easy.  It also has built-in wired and wireless networking and USB connectivity, so you can connect to it pretty much any way that you might have.  It also has memory card slots so you can put your memory card from your camera in it.  HP.com has it for $169.99.

Kodak has come out with a line of inkjet printers and they are pushing low priced ink cartridges, $10 for the replacement cartridges.  I haven't used them yet, but it is something to look at.

BTW, I use a b&w laser (HP LaserJet 1320) if I don't need color, the cost per page is much better.  

One last thing, cheap printers are like cheap tools, you get what you pay for.  They break quickly and in the end the frustration costs more than just paying a bit more.  They are truly disposible.

Chris


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## TellicoTurning (Feb 13, 2009)

jttheclockman said:


> I had a HP and was very happy with it over the years but since my new computer there are no drivers for the update so it is time to go. Any comments on HP units???



JT
My wife has the HP 8250 Photosmart.. it's a great printer, the inks are pretty inexpensive- we get a package deal at office supply or Walmart at about $35 for all 5 cartridges..(this printer uses 4 colors and 1 black)(individual cartridges run about $9.95 ea.) and the price of the printer isn't all that bad.  Only problem we've had is she had a glass of 7up on her desk and the cat jumped up and knocked the glass off.. her printer sat on a small table next to the desk and guess where the 7up went... I cleaned the printer really well, but still can't get the photo paper to feed.. otherwise it's still working like a charm.

I use an Epson 84C that I've had for about 4+ years.  It also works great and isn't terribly expensive nor is the inks.  I buy most of my cartridges from Printpal at about $7.95 each.


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## bitshird (Feb 13, 2009)

My Lexmark Z60 sucks ink like a Irish hooligan at a South Boston Bar


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## Pen Maker (Feb 13, 2009)

LOL


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## Rudy Vey (Feb 13, 2009)

bitshird said:


> My Lexmark Z60 sucks ink like a Irish hooligan at a South Boston Bar


Mine did too, but then also puked it out:biggrin: Had two lexmarks where the ink leaked out completely, what a mess - couldn't be repaired, just dumped them.


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## jttheclockman (Feb 15, 2009)

sbell111 said:


> You should be able to download old printer drivers from the HP website.  A quick search turned up new drivers for the old HP 4L that we bought in 1992.  I bet that your printers drivers can be found either on HP's site or somewhere else online such as driverguide.com.
> 
> Regarding the OP, our current printer solution is twofold.  For black and white prints we favor HP laser printers.  For the last several years, our workhorse has been an old LaserJet 8000 (upgraded to duplex).  For color printing, we prefer Canon inkjets.  It is important, in my opinion, to have seperate ink tanks for each color so you don't pay to replace a color before you need to.  Also, the more ink tanks the better, in my opinion.  Our Canon PIXMA iP6600D uses six seperate ink tanks and does a very good job at printing pics, in my opinion.
> 
> Both of these printers are connected to a wireless print server so we can print to them from any computer on our network.



I can not find drivers for my unit which is a HP Photosmart 1000. My new computer is using WindowsXP64 professional. No drivers available for this.


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## ed4copies (Feb 16, 2009)

JT, you are correct.  Much to my surprise, HP has NOT, nor do they PLAN to develop a driver for your 1000 that is compatible with 64bit processing.

IF you replace with an HP, you may want to go to their website and hit customer service, you MIGHT get a discount for the "value" of your 1000 - depends on the customer service rep.


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## Grim Spirit (Feb 16, 2009)

jttheclockman said:


> I had a HP and was very happy with it over the years but since my new computer there are no drivers for the update so it is time to go. Any comments on HP units???


 
After serious investigation (I'm a analytical chemist, I research EVERYTHING), my first printer was a HP Deskjet 712C that I purchased in 1998. I loved the quailty and the durability. I do quite a bit of graphic work and photoshopping. It wasn't the fastest prinbter, but I was happy with it. It was the only printer I owned, and I didn't get rid of it until June of 2008. Can't argue over a printer that will last you a decade.

For a replacement, I invested a little more money and purchased a HP Deskjet 6980. The quality is great. The speed is sufficient, and it's WIRELESS. Installation was a little more involved than I would have liked, but you can configure the wireless feature either through your wireless router (as I did) or through the built in wireless.

We print from three laptops and one wired desktop, and have had no problems.

One note: If you run Vista, there is sometimes a problem printing from Vista to certain HP printers. There may be fixes out there, but as I run XP (mainly because Vista is crap).

Do NOT buy an ALL in one printer (one that prints, scans, faxes, walks the dog and prepares Decaf Lattes).  They may do everything, but they do none of them well.  If you want a scanner, buy a flatbed.  If you want a fax, spend $20 on a stand alone.

I'd only use Lexmark if you are making massive amounts of four-color labels.  They're great forlabels, logos and such, but nothing with photographic quality.  They are expensive and require a lot of work.

Hope this helps.


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## sbell111 (Feb 16, 2009)

jttheclockman said:


> I can not find drivers for my unit which is a HP Photosmart 1000. My new computer is using WindowsXP64 professional. No drivers available for this.


A google search turned up several drivers that claim to work with your printer.  Here's one.


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## jttheclockman (Feb 16, 2009)

I think I will just put this printer in the basement with the old computer. I just got back from Best buy and bout a HP C7280. I did not start out looking for this one and I was looking for the HP J6480 but after looking at the other one I got it. A bit more money but the one feature I liked was the individual colors as opposed to the tri color cartridge. I think in the long run I will save money on cartridges. It was only another $50 more and it also can print photos any size. Hey if it last a few years I will be happy. Thanks all for the inputs.


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## TellicoTurning (Feb 16, 2009)

jttheclockman said:


> I think I will just put this printer in the basement with the old computer. I just got back from Best buy and bout a HP C7280. I did not start out looking for this one and I was looking for the HP J6480 but after looking at the other one I got it. A bit more money but the one feature I liked was the individual colors as opposed to the tri color cartridge. I think in the long run I will save money on cartridges. It was only another $50 more and it also can print photos any size. Hey if it last a few years I will be happy. Thanks all for the inputs.



I'm not familiar with the C7280, but the wife's 5280 uses the 4 color cartridges + black.. HP#2 (I thnk) and they usually run about $10 +/- per cartridge, except the black which is about double... or you can buy in a package at about $35-40 with one of each, plus a packaged of 5x7 photo paper.  

I used an HP in Houston when was still working... the printer was about $90, a new multi color cartridge was $55.  I generally used a cartridge a month... and the boss fussed at the IT manager because he bought such an "expensive" printer.


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## NewLondon88 (Feb 16, 2009)

ozmandus said:


> I used an HP in Houston when was still working... the printer was about $90, a new multi color cartridge was $55.  I generally used a cartridge a month... and the boss fussed at the IT manager because he bought such an "expensive" printer.



Wait till he goes to buy a car and finds out that new cars are more than $500 now!


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## jttheclockman (Feb 16, 2009)

ozmandus said:


> I'm not familiar with the C7280, but the wife's 5280 uses the 4 color cartridges + black.. HP#2 (I thnk) and they usually run about $10 +/- per cartridge, except the black which is about double... or you can buy in a package at about $35-40 with one of each, plus a packaged of 5x7 photo paper.
> 
> I used an HP in Houston when was still working... the printer was about $90, a new multi color cartridge was $55.  I generally used a cartridge a month... and the boss fussed at the IT manager because he bought such an "expensive" printer.




Chuck

These thing change almost every month so i would not doubt the one I have will be replaced with something bigger and better very soon. I needed a new one and if it holds up like my other HP I will be a happy camper. I did see the ink you talked about and that is basically what sold me on it. I use to run through the tri color or if I did not use the printer for long stretches the ink would dry and so hopefully this unit will hold up.


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