# Food Safe Finish



## greenchicken (Apr 1, 2012)

Forgive me for posting a question that has nothing to do with pens.

I made a flask.  I sealed the interior with walnut oil (being a food safe finish).  But once I filled it with water it sweated out through the end grain. Little beads of water.

I seal the exterior with poly so now it is water tight.  But I would like recommendation for a food safe finish.


----------



## ren-lathe (Apr 1, 2012)

There is something called brewers pitch. This is used to seal wooden canteen for a couple centuries. I have used it in my period canteens, works well You can find it & instructions for use at:
http://jas-townsend.com/product_info.php?products_id=373 Jas. Townsend and Son, Inc.


----------



## greenchicken (Apr 1, 2012)

Thanks.  I have made pine pitch back in my paleo archery days.  That recipe had me cooking pine tree sap, charcoal, and dried grass into a thick tar for mounting stone points to arrows.  I still have a cane of collected pine pitch, I wonder if that is all I need?


----------



## Jim Burr (Apr 2, 2012)

Dozens of studies conducted by several universities and the USDA show that once a finished has cured...timing is open to debate!...the finish is food safe. I have yet to find a finish that didn't pass the test.


----------



## nativewooder (Apr 2, 2012)

I don't worry about "food safe" finishes 'cause I'm not gonna chew on the wood!:biggrin:


----------



## Justturnin (Apr 2, 2012)

I would say bees wax but I am not sure you would be able to pour out the excess before it hardened.  What about 100% tung oil.  Once it cures water beads off.  Only issue is you could be looking at about a month or longer for a full cure so you would get no taste from it.  It drys hard and can be buffed to a high gloss.


----------



## Wildman (Apr 2, 2012)

I can list several books, & internet articles, and message board postings stating that “once any finish has dried it is food safe.” I am beginning to doubt wisdom of that statement. 

If you consider some not all manufacturers often fail to list all toxic chemicals they use on product MSDS’s. One reason often given by industry and excepted by our government is amount of those toxic chemicals used in making their product.  

So would be interested in links to university studies and USDA reports naming products they tested.


----------



## SCR0LL3R (Apr 2, 2012)

Wildman said:


> I can list several books, & internet articles, and message board postings stating that “once any finish has dried it is food safe.” I am beginning to doubt wisdom of that statement.
> 
> If you consider some not all manufacturers often fail to list all toxic chemicals they use on product MSDS’s. One reason often given by industry and excepted by our government is amount of those toxic chemicals used in making their product.
> 
> So would be interested in links to university studies and USDA reports naming products they tested.



This doesn't just apply to finishes, but in everything you buy for use to cook, store or serve food in as well... if we are going to get paranoid about it.


----------



## greenchicken (Apr 2, 2012)

I do not plan to sell these but give them as a gift to a russian friend your infuses his own vodkas.  I'd what to be use the the vodka will not dissolve the finish, poison my friend or worse ruin the vodka.

Some one recommended heating the walnut and then letting it soak in the wood for 20 minutes.  Then let it dry for a day or two.


----------



## Wildman (Apr 3, 2012)

“SCR0LL3   says.” This doesn't just apply to finishes, but in everything you buy for use to cook, store or serve food in as well... if we are going to get paranoid about it. “

Scroll3, you might be right but,

'Pink slime' forces beef processor into bankruptcy
'Pink slime' forces beef processor into bankruptcy - Business - US business - Food Inc. - msnbc.com

Meat processors have faced a backlash over the use of an ammonia-treated beef filler they call "finely textured beef." Food activists have campaigned to have it banned arguing the product was unappetizing, but supporters say the product is safe to eat.

The phrase "pink slime" was first used by a former USDA microbiologist, Gerald Zirnstein, who used the term in a 2002 email to co-workers after having toured a BPI plant. The current debate began after celebrity chef Jamie Oliver drew attention to the product.

Paranoid, who me? No just little confused is all!


----------



## Wildman (Apr 3, 2012)

Artist used walnut oil as well as many other oils to mix their paints for centuries. To thicken oils would place container in sunlight for several months. 

Drying oils - Linseed oil, Poppy oil, Walnuts oil, etc.

Drying Oils | Alnor Oil Company

Will heating walnut oil make it thicker and faster drying? Guess if heated long enough and reduces in volume will thicken. Not sure, about drying time wise.  I am sure Vodka, will dissolve the walnut oil. 

Not to worry could be creating the next great taste sensation with taste of Vodka & Nuts. 

Eventually if keep canteen full Vodka with get those wood cells to swell up and stop that waste of good Vodka.


----------



## greenchicken (Apr 4, 2012)

UDPATE:
I contacted the seller of the Brewer's Pitch and they say that it is NOT safe for distilled spirits.
I contacted General Finishes about their food safe salad bowl finish and they said it is NOT safe for distilled spirits.
I contacted Howard's, maker of butcher block finishes, and they said the same thing.

I did research CA and found this:

The United States National Toxicology Program and the United Kingdom Health and Safety Executive have concluded that the use of ethyl cyanoacrylate is safe and that additional study is unnecessary.

CA is still used in the medical profession.

In the end I have decided to make my flask using a segment bowl technique therefore no end grain will be exposed.  I will then seal the interior with several coast of hot walnut oil and seal the exterior with several coast of poly.


----------



## Wildman (Apr 5, 2012)

Sounds like you have a plan. What wood will you be using?


----------



## greenchicken (Apr 6, 2012)

Birch (since it will be Nirimoff Birch Vodka)


----------



## greenchicken (Apr 6, 2012)

I sent my question to HIghland Woodworking Customer SUpprot her eis what they sent me:

_All fully cured interior finishes in the United States are non-hazardous.  They may be unappetizing (should flakes or small pieces come dislodged and end up in your food - like from a cutting board), but they are inert materials once fully cured.  Some finishes can take up to 4 weeks to fully cure.  If you stick your nose onto a dry varnish finish and sniff strongly, if you smell any varnish or solvent smell, it is not fully cured.

The only finish I would think that could stand up to a distilled spirit would be 7-10 coats of varnish.  Varnishes (and polys), including some of the water-based polyurethanes stand up well to alcohol and water  Shellac and lacquer finishes would be melted by vodka and waxes would also considerably soften being in continuous contact with such a powerful solvent like vodka ._


----------



## Wildman (Apr 6, 2012)

Interest in this thread, found me looking up wood canteens for both water & whiskey. Actual wood used depends upon period of history and wood available. Learned they use white cedar, butternut, juniper, and white oak woods. Stave construction with wood, leather or metal bindings or rings common. Some used pitch and some used nothing to seal canteens. 

Lot of replicas using antique wood sold for show not actual use. One of couple vendors found does make canteens for use and talk about curing process.

Pirate's Whiskey Canteen Barrel - OB-134 by Dark Knight Armoury

In my old copy of “Understanding wood Finishes,” by Bob Flexner alludes to once dry finishes food safe.  In several on-line articles he does not half step and says once finish dry it is food safe.  Of course he is not the only finishing guru, vendor, making that statement. 

JMHO, beginning to question that wisdom!

Good luck with your canteen.


----------

