# Finishing Frustration



## tomwojeck (Oct 5, 2004)

All,

Maybe I'm just stupid, but lately I've been having a ton of problems completing the finishing of my pen.  I'm making it out of Bolivian Rosewood, using CA/BLO to finish.  

After I turn it and sand it smooth, I seal it with some CA and sand all the way up the MM grits.  So far, so good.

The problem comes when I try to finish it with the CA/BLO. I get the finish on, but when it comes time to polish, I always seem to put scratches in it that I can't get out.  I start with the 1500 MM to smooth and flatten the CA, and work up from there.  

I've tried everything I can think of :
1.  Sanding with the lathe at turning speed.
2.  Sanding with it all the way down.
3.  Sanding with a medium speed.

Any input that you have is greatly appreciated.  

Thanks,
Tom


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## C_Ludwigsen (Oct 5, 2004)

Tom,  while I have stopped using the CA finish, this is the sanding regimen I used.

I used a slow turning speed to sand with each grit followed by stopping the lathe and sanding lengthwise before moving to the next higher grit.  I have not used the MM yet, but using 220/320/400/600/800/1000/1200/1500/2000/brown paper bag seemed to eliminate any scratches.  I would top that off with a quick pass of Carnauba wax and buff that at high speeds.

Since you are mixing the BLO with the CA, you may need to give it a bit more time to cure or hit it with accelerator before starting the sanding.

Hope this helps.


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## tomwojeck (Oct 5, 2004)

> _Originally posted by C_Ludwigsen_
> <br />Tom,  while I have stopped using the CA finish, this is the sanding regimen I used.
> 
> I used a slow turning speed to sand with each grit followed by stopping the lathe and sanding lengthwise before moving to the next higher grit.  I have not used the MM yet, but using 220/320/400/600/800/1000/1200/1500/2000/brown paper bag seemed to eliminate any scratches.  I would top that off with a quick pass of Carnauba wax and buff that at high speeds.
> ...



Chuck,

Thanks for your advice.  I will try it to see how it turns out.  Just out of curiousity, why don't you use CA anymore, and what do you use?

Thanks again,
Tom


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## ryannmphs (Oct 5, 2004)

Let's see if I can answer before Chuck.  He stopped using CA as a finish when he thought the CA was causeing an allergic reaction.  He would turn and finish a pen, then a couple days later he'd break out in hives, real bad.

I'm sure he'll update us all,if he hasn't already, but it turns out he does not have an allergic reaction, just a bad case of hives.

Get better soon Chuck

Ryan


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## C_Ludwigsen (Oct 5, 2004)

As soon as I sort out my understanding fully from what the Doctors said, I'll post an explanation in the Casual Conversation forum as it is not finishing related (thank you GOD!!!).

For now,  Tom, besides the sanding speeds, can you describe your steps for applying the CA finish in detail?  That may help everyone to identify what is causing your scratches.

Also, it is important to note that I lightened my pressure up as I moved through the grits (not a southern food).  Remember that after the first "smoothing" grit, each subsequent grit is only designed to remove the scratches left by the prior grit.  Now in some cases, it is hard to see the scratches from say the 150 when you are sanding at 220.  Then when you get to 320 or 400, you see more scratches.

Clean the sanding dust off the pen often so you can see scratches, and sand with each grit till you don't see discernable scratches.  I say discernable, because, with finer grits like 220/320/etc, if you have removed all the scratches from the lower grit, then the scratches that are left will be from an even grit and you won't "see" any until you move to the higher grit.  If there are still scratches from the 150 when you sand at 220, then if you clean the dust off, they should be obvious to you.

That was difficult to think through, so I hope I explained it well.

Chuck


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## tomwojeck (Oct 5, 2004)

When I apply the CA, I use the following steps (which I got from Scott's article.)

1.  Sand the wood starting with 120 grit to flatten the pen.  Then got through 220/320/400.  
2.  At this point start with MM from 1500 through 12000.
3.  With a paper towel, apply a light coat of BLO.
4.  Using a paper towel, drip 3 drops of BLO, then while contacting the lathe (spinning at 500 rpm) apply thin CA.  I move the paper towel over the length of the pen until the CA is spread evenly.  

At this point, I have my first question.  Should the CA be dry before I add another coat?  How long should it take to dry?

5.  Using a paper towel, drip 3 drops of BLO, then while contacting the lathe (spinning at 500 rpm) apply medium CA.
6.  Finally apply one more coat of thin CA.

At this point I let everything dry ( again, how long should this take?).

I then start back with the 1500 MM, and with the lathe spinning around 1200 rpm, work through all of the MM up to 12000.

--Tom


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## tomwojeck (Oct 5, 2004)

Another question; is Bolivian Rosewood just difficult to work with?  This is the second pen that I've done with it, and the last one gave me all sorts of trouble too.  

On the flip side, cherry seems easy to work with, as did cocobolo, except for the fact that I wore a respirator.


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## wayneis (Oct 5, 2004)

Tom I don't see any reason that the rosewood should be any different than most others.  One thing that I see with your method is that you may be skimping on the BLO a little.  Whenever I do a BOL/CA I saturate the pad with it wipe the blank good with it and saturate the pad again.  Then the other is thing your sanding, if your ca is uneven then sometimes you may have to start with 400 grit and then move on up through the grits to 12000.  Another thing is if you are getting a rough finish you need to sand between coats, not sure if you are doing this.  Most of the time if I use enough CA I get a pretty smooth finish, I still need to go thru all the MM.  Hopefully someone that only does BLO/CA will chime in.

Wayne


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## C_Ludwigsen (Oct 5, 2004)

I now wear a respirator ALL the time.  I look like Darth Vader in the shop with the respirator and face shield.

I do let each coat dry before applying the next.  I also only keep the lathe running while I apply the CA.  Then I shut off and rotate the spindle by hand to inspect it.  It isn't at the runny stage at this point.  For the sub layers, I hit it with accelerator, wait a minute, the wipe any white residue off.  Then start on the next layer.

What worked for me was 2-3 layers of thin then 1 layer of medium, then a light layer of thin if the previous layers left any dimples in open grain or anything.  I let the last layer cure without accelerator for at least 30 minutes - equal to the time to come in, check my email, get a snack, check Penturners.org for new posts, talk to that strange bunch of people that someone told me was my family, and then head back into the shop.

I also only sanded through 400 before the CA.  Then started back at 320 or 400 after the CA depending on how smooth it went on.

Regarding the rosewood.  It is very open grained and that, to me, makes it difficult to finish.  You may have to do several coats of thin just to adequately fill the pores.  And if you pour more CA on while it is still wet, I imaging it will just run off to your paper towel.  Let it dry, help it to dry, then do it again.

I'm rapidly heading towards getting the MM too.


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## DCBluesman (Oct 5, 2004)

Rosewoods, by their very nature, are hard, oily woods.  They are fun and easy to turn, but finishes can be a challenge.  For ALL oily woods (rosewoods and olive come to mind first), I strongly suggest a wipe of alcohol (rubbing) across the blank just prior to starting to finish them.  Also, when you are seating your tubes, swab out the hole with alcohol prior to glueing the tubes in.  The alcohol removes the surface oil so you have a chance of having your bottom coat and/or glue adhere well.  Also, two fingers of bourbon for the turner is not a bad idea either, as long as you're done with turning for the evening. I can't say for sure whether or not the bourbon helps MY bottom coat. [8D]


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## Guest (Oct 5, 2004)

Hooking up a dc boot on the back side of the lathe will pull the fumes and a lot of dust.


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## C_Ludwigsen (Oct 5, 2004)

Building a nice Lathe DC now, Eagle.  Using a furnace blower.  I'll post picks as soon as it is completed and "field tested".


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## ryannmphs (Oct 6, 2004)

Chuck you are not building a Lathe DC, you are building a lathe DC hurricane!!  Put that baby on high and it just might implode your little shop!!

Good luck with it, and let me know if you find another one.

Ryan


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## cat6492 (Oct 7, 2004)

Confused. Do you apply the BLO to raw sanded wood and then the CA?Someone give me a clear step by step using BLO/CA. Lathe speed,applicator for BLO and CA, how much of a buildup of CA etc.


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## DCBluesman (Oct 7, 2004)

Check this out and come back to us if you have further questions.  It's pretty darned thorough.
http://www.penturners.org/content/ca-blo.pdf


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## cat6492 (Oct 7, 2004)

Thanks Lou for the information.I'm going to give it a try.


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## jwoodwright (Oct 10, 2004)

Just my 2 cents... []  Sounds like going through the grits too fast and getting carryover grit.  Sometimes reversing the blanks also gives better sanding (with the grain).  []


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