# Stop apologizing



## Haynie

As a photographer I concentrate on the photograph when that is what I am doing.  I have been known to wait hours and sometimes days before tripping the shutter.  I will take multiple shots of the same thing with only very subtle changes.  I have thrown away whole rolls of film (yes I still use film) because I could not put the image I saw in my mind on the film.  This OCD Really ticks the wife off some times.  The point is when I am out photographing something it is not about the item(s) I am taking photographs of, it is about the final image itself

When I am taking a picture of something I am working on, I am not too worried about the artistic/commercial qualities of the images.  I want to just show folks what I am working on.  In this case the picture is about the item not the image.

The SOYP area is about showing us what you are doing, not your photography skills.  All we should be asking for is an image that is in focus and lit well enough for us to see the pen.  Walk out side, set the pen on something that is not distracting in the shade.  Get it in focus and pull the trigger.  Take a couple different views.  We want to see all the curves.  Getting outside means you have enough light to handhold the camera and still have things in focus.

In my opinion there is a time for the crystal clear product shots.  If you are posting the image on the net to sell the pen, DO YOUR BEST!  Take a product photography lesson or two.  Watch some Youtube videos and practice, practice, practice.  If you feel like the image is not going to sell the pen, don't apologize for it, do it again, and again, and again, until you have an image that sells the pen, and you don't feel the need to apologize.  

Yes people ooo and ahh these images when they get posted but in the end these images are not about the pen they are about the image that sells the pen.  IMO when someone comments more on the image, and less on the pen, the maker should maybe rethink selling that pen.

In the end we want to see your just created piece of scribbling hotness.


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## mikespenturningz

That is so well put Mark. Sometimes we get so wrapped up in the comments and we worry way too much about the picture we put into SOYP. Now on the other hand sometimes we see a beautiful pen and also the beautiful image that was taken we just have to comment on both. Then again sometimes the image is so bad we cannot see well enough to comment. Anyway very well put.


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## D.Oliver

piece of scribbling hotness.........I like that.  You should trademark that.


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## mredburn

HEh Heh my wife used to go through 2 rolls of Velvia 50 on one stupid flower.   Thank goodness for Digital.


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## PaulDoug

Amen, been thinking along these lines for a long time.  I'm not a photographer and I come view pens in the show pen thread to critic the photograph.  There is a thread for that also.  I look at the pen.


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## Jim Burr

I'm sorry...ok, just had to be said:wink:! Knowing the pictures we take are the only way to represent the work that went into the pen, I can see some desire to get a good shot uploaded. But someone loads a pic that is so out of focus that it looks like a Bic...that needs to be addressed. Good shots...you bet. Can't tell if it's a pen or Bigfoot...try again.


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## Haynie

I agree Jim.  That is why I said take it outside.  Easier to get things in focus that way.


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## Haynie

mredburn said:


> HEh Heh my wife used to go through 2 rolls of Velvia 50 on one stupid flower.   Thank goodness for Digital.



Sounds like my kind of woman.  For these instances digital is nice, but I just can't seem to give up my film.


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## Displaced Canadian

Good point. My Father in Law is a semi professional photogragher. I asked him to take a picture of a pen for me and the whole process involved a digital camera with a huge lens, a tripod, some natural light, an external light or two, a couple of different backrounds, and about 3 hours of time. He is looking at flaws in the picture that I can't see even when he points them out. It's a great picture, it looks exactly like the pen. I have a point and shoot, 3 lights and a semi-transparent box with one of my shirts as a backround. He has a camera and lens that are worth more than my first 3 vehicles put together. To him taking that picture and making it perfect was fun, for me it would be too much work. Nice to have him around when I need him.


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## OOPS

From what I have seen, there is a world of difference between the crystal clear product shots and what passes for a "photo" in the SOYP section.  Most people provide a decent photo, but if a person is asking for C&C then the photo should come from a camera, not a cell phone.  Most cell phone cameras are not capable of taking a photo that gives an acceptable level of detail in order for others to provide meaningful comments.  In addition, those who use cell phone cameras infrequently don't know how to get the best photos out of their phones.  Finally, the entry level point and shoot cameras are inexpensive and produce a much better photo.  

The way I see it is....... if I can't see it in the photo, I don't comment.  I don't have time to write "Nice picture of Bigfoot, how did you get him on the lathe?"  

Just my two cents.


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## edstreet

Displaced Canadian said:


> Good point. My Father in Law is a semi professional photogragher. I asked him to take a picture of a pen for me and the whole process involved a digital camera with a huge lens, a tripod, some natural light, an external light or two, a couple of different backrounds, and about 3 hours of time. He is looking at flaws in the picture that I can't see even when he points them out. It's a great picture, it looks exactly like the pen. I have a point and shoot, 3 lights and a semi-transparent box with one of my shirts as a backround. He has a camera and lens that are worth more than my first 3 vehicles put together. To him taking that picture and making it perfect was fun, for me it would be too much work. Nice to have him around when I need him.



This sounds exactly like me.  I try to bring out things that I see and it is not an easy thing to do either.  My first photography teacher said every 100 or so shots you take there will be 1 wow shot.  I do not have gobs and gobs of $ in photo gear like the OP mentioned but I have proven time and time again it is not really about how much $ is in it but how you use what you have.

Many times several will think the comments that I say is degrading or negative but that is not the case.  Bad photo's of good products is very tragic.


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## AlanZ

I respectfully disagree with the premise of the original post.
I consider photographing just one important step in the finishing process.

You wouldn't show off a pen that has incomplete finishing or buffing...it's not ready for presentation.  If your photograph is not up to your production standards, then its time to learn how to make them better, just as you learned to make better pens.

I propose that same care and pride should be taken in the production AND presentation.  It's your reputation and credibility on the line.

Thanks for your ear.


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## Haynie

AlanZ said:


> It's your reputation and credibility on the line.



This is a joke right?  

The only time your reputation and credibility would be on the line is if you misrepresented your pen.  Like taking credit for making a pen when it was not your creation.  If you are selling the pens on the net the only thing the buyer has to go by is the image so yes it better be a damn fine image.  If all you are doing is posting in the SOYP forum then reputation and credibility has nothing to do with it.

The thought that the final pen picture has to be as flawless as your finish is pure rubbish.


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## Smitty37

Haynie said:


> I agree Jim.  That is why I said take it outside.  Easier to get things in focus that way.


 I do mine indoors in a well lighted room with all artifical lights turned off.  I use a tri-pod.  I'm no photographer and never wanted to be one, so if the picture is decent (most are) that's it.


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## AlanZ

Haynie,

No joke.  It is my opinion that people should consider improving their photography skills, and not just turn out poor photographs with the excuse that they don't know how to do better, don't need to do better, or don't care to do better.

Obviously you don't share this opinion...  To each his own.


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## BSea

Haynie said:


> AlanZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's your reputation and credibility on the line.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a joke right?
> 
> The only time your reputation and credibility would be on the line is if you misrepresented your pen.  Like taking credit for making a pen when it was not your creation.  If you are selling the pens on the net the only thing the buyer has to go by is the image so yes it better be a damn fine image.  If all you are doing is posting in the SOYP forum then reputation and credibility has nothing to do with it.
> 
> The thought that the final pen picture has to be as flawless as your finish is pure rubbish.
Click to expand...

I agree with Haynie.  Although "pure rubbish" might be a little harsh.

There are penmakers that are also hunters. There are penmakers that are also gear heads.  There are pen makers that are also gardners.  And yes, there are pen makers that are also photographers.  But just because someone has a skill related to another hobby, it's a little unrealistic to expect others to share that same point of view when it comes to pens.

I do agree with the spirit of this thread.  It isn't rocket science to take a decent picture.  Everyone with a point & shoot camera can get a decent picture if they try.  And if you want to post in SOYP, then you should at least make the effort to learn what makes a decent picture possible.  You don't need special lights, or a high end camera.  Outdoors in indirect light works wonders. Or like Smitty, indoors with good natural light.


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## AlanZ

Bsea,

I think we fundamentally agree... People should make the effort to provide good photographs, not simply apologize for poor photographs.  It has never been easier than it is today.


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## Smitty37

Hmmm, in my opinion if it isn't a joke it should be.  Most of us are just not that interested in taking pictures 





AlanZ said:


> Haynie,
> 
> No joke.  It is my opinion that people should consider improving their photography skills, and not just turn out poor photographs with the excuse that they don't know how to do better, don't need to do better, or don't care to do better.
> 
> Obviously you don't share this opinion...  To each his own.


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## AlanZ

Ok, I retract my suggestion.  Be perfectly content with poor quality photos, don't strive to improve.  It does not reflect on the pen maker.


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## 76winger

Coming from another angle:

I personally try to take photos that are good enough for selling online since that's how I sell most of mine, and consequentially I use those same photos in the SOYP section. No need to take average photos just to tone it down to show off the pen, that's already accomplished. 

However, I don't go overboard with my pen photos, posting a lot of different items or images around the pen, shooting for that leap to an artistic quality photograph.


Even many mediocre photos do a fair job of showing off the pens so long as they're at lease in focus and close to the correct color (white balance). But when the chrome looks green or purple, it's hard to imagine what the real color of the pen is when the metal is noticeably not right. I try not to say anything bad when I see some of the poorer quality photos, opting instead just to go on to the next thread. 

And in thinking of those photos that are quickly taken from phone cameras, out of focus and apologetically posted: Well if you can spend a good amount of time to make the pen, you can spend 10 or 15 minutes getting a well colored and in-focus photo, even with most phone cameras. Spend an hour or so getting the setup so you can get a decently lit and in focus photo, then keep the setup (or take notes on what you did) so its repeatable for future shots. It's then just a matter of turning on the lights (or positioning in a natural light setting), positioning where you can get an in focus shot or two, then you're set.


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## BSea

AlanZ said:


> Ok, I retract my suggestion.  Be perfectly content with poor quality photos, don't strive to improve.  It does not reflect on the pen maker.


I don't think anyone here is saying that it's perfectly ok to post poor photos.  We're just saying that it doesn't have to be with as much detail as our best CA finish.  I think it's a small percentage where the photography is on par with the production in this forum.

But you're entitled to your opinion.  And if someone is selling online, then it's in their best interest to learn enough about photography to at least be able to show a better than average photo of their work IMHO.  But from what I've seen, even average photos seem to sell pens.  But I'll bet the better photos generate more $ per sale.

However, this thread was about photos in SOYP.  


Haynie said:


> The SOYP area is about showing us what you are  doing, not your photography skills.  All we should be asking for is an  image that is in focus and lit well enough for us to see the pen.  Walk  out side, set the pen on something that is not distracting in the shade.   Get it in focus and pull the trigger.  Take a couple different views.   We want to see all the curves.  Getting outside means you have enough  light to handhold the camera and still have things in focus.
> 
> _*In the end we want to see your just created piece of scribbling hotness.*_


I think the last line says it all.


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