# Softer nibs?



## Fibonacci (Feb 15, 2012)

I have been trying to like fountain pens for a number of reasons, but my primary problem is that I have to press too hard to get the ink to come out.

The best nib that I have used was a bock #1 that someone here gave me (unfortunately I cleaned out my inbox and can't figure out who it was), but even it took more pressure than I liked.

Optimally, I would like a nib that requires very little pressure and leaves a thin line.  I have been using the tock nibs from CSUSA upside down to get the line thickness that I want, but I get a lot of strange looks for that.

Any suggestions?


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## IPD_Mr (Feb 15, 2012)

What you are looking for is not a soft nib.  Never quite heard it put that way before.  You certainly do not want anything with flex as the down stroke on a flex will make a wider line.  While people may look at you funny when you turn the nib upside down, that was the way it was done years ago when you needed a fine line.  This is where the duo-point comes from.  Actually what you want is a stiff nib much like the old manifold nibs.  The point you need it XF or XXF.  Also even on these type of points your ink should flow with little to no pressure.  Your nib needs to be properly tuned for ink flow.


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## Fibonacci (Feb 15, 2012)

Perhaps I have a completely different problem than I think.

When I take out the pen with the stock nib and lightly run it across the paper, I get a fairly thin line that skips.  If I start to put pressure on it, I get a thicker (as expected) line that does not skip.  These nibs also seem to have a slow start.  The first 1/4" or so has little or no ink if I have not written in the last few minutes.

With the bock nib, I get the solid, thick line with significantly less pressure, but I still have to press down to get any flow.  This is much smoother and has a faster start, but it is still 1/8" or so.  This is a Bock #1 with a Bock feed.

Both of these are on apprentice Jr. Gent hardware.

I have a pentel fountain pen without a removeable nib that gives me a thick line with virtually no pressure, but takes the 1/4" or so to get started.

Perhaps I am asking too much of my pen, but I think I should be able to get better performance.  Is my tuning at fault?  I have gone through the behind the nib paperwork a number of times and I tune under 5x optics.  They all feel really smooth.


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## IPD_Mr (Feb 15, 2012)

Smoothness and ink flow are two different things.  The problem with a slow start and skipping is all in the ink flow.  Sounds more like your slit tapper gets too tight at the tip.  The best way to deal with this is to press down with your thumb tips at the breather hole and *gently* lift the wings.  You should also make sure that your slit is clean by running a piece of brass that is .002 thick through it.


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## BRobbins629 (Feb 15, 2012)

If you are willing to invest in this, contact someone like Greg Minuskin who is also in California. Not a member, but he can tune a nib to your exact requirements. To get some insight into what he does, listen to the interview he gave on Fountainpengeeks.com Once you write with a nib tuned by an expert you will have a standard to judge your nib tuning capabilities. I wish it was as simple as reading the articles on this site. While they are very informative, it is only with some instruction and much practice that you will get good results. I love making and writing with fountain pens, but have yet to devote the time to become even a halfway a good nib tuner.


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## frank123 (Feb 15, 2012)

I'm really new at pen making, but fountain pens are what I am most interested in and have done the most challenging work on so far.

Since I'm new, take what I'm saying with a grain of salt as it may only apply to the ones I've worked on and might not work at all for you on yours.

Sometimes they write perfectly as the come with the kit and sometimes I have to put a lot of effort into making them work the way I want them to (IMO a fountain pen should easily and immediately write under nothing but it's own weight).

Most of the kits have pretty cheap nib/feed assemblies in them (which makes sense since you wouldn't expect a 50 dollar nib in a 10 or15 dollar kit).  Two problems I find here, probably quality control related since they are not consistent from one to another, are in the nib itself having out of line points or too narrow or plugged a slit in it and the feed itself not being right to fit against the nib and feed ink smoothly or having a manufacturing defect in it.

Before you do anything wash the whole thing thoroughly in lukewarm water with a little dish wash detergent in it, and rinse it with clear water.  You can just soak it and use a converter to pump the water through or you can fully dissemble it and wash the parts with a soft toothbrush.  A lot of problems can be from having manufacturing gunk left in the nib and feed.

Carefully inspect the nib itself with a magnifying glass and a light behind it to see if there is anything in the slit that could interfere with the ink flow and look at it head on from the pointy end to see if the two tines are in perfect alignment with each other (if you find a problem here there are instructions on how to correct it available all over the internet, but be rather careful your first time).

If you're satisfied with the nib itself reassemble everything, install your cartridge or fill your converter, hold it pointed down for a minute then try to write with it, if it doesn't prime itself prime the nib and feed by dipping it in an ink bottle or forcing just a little out of the cartridge or converter till you see it wetting the nib.  You may drip some out so keep your work surface appropriately covered while doing this.

It should write now, and should write under its own weight if the nib is fully corrected.

Now store it upright (with the cap on) and see if it will start and write at intervals of about 1, 2, 8, and 24 hours.  If it does you've solved the problem.

If it doesn't, let it dry again (stops starting) and slip a piece of regular typewriter paper just a small ways under the nib (maybe to the back of the front tapered part) and see if that starts it.  If it does you probably have a problem with the nib to feed fit or the feed itself.  

To check this let it go dry, then without trying to write more with it pull the nib and feed out together without letting them change position relative to each other and carefully separate them and look inside the nib to see where the ink is still wet and where it is dry or just not there.  This is the point whre the problem lies, examine the feed at that point to see if there is any visible problem that would cause the ink to slow or stop there.  If something is obvious then you can figure out how to solve it (but beware, it is far easier to do too much at a time and ruin the thing trying to do it in one step than you might think.  Do whatever you do just a tiny bit at a time).  There are instructions all over the web about how to correct this, rad all of them you can find and apply as you think needed.  (doesn't hurt to buy a few cheap nib/section assemblies to experiment on).

This is, of course, from my very limited experience and may not address your problem at all.  It's just what has worked for me so far.  I've heard inks can make a big difference as well, but I've had no experience with most of them.


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## Chthulhu (Feb 15, 2012)

Inks do make a big difference. Some tend to be "dry" while others tend to be "wet." 

Waterman blue is often cited as a good "starter ink" because it works very well in the majority of cases, and is considered to be an exceptionally "wet" ink. Pelikan is a "dry" ink often recommended for pens that write too wetly. 

Noodler's inks are toward the wet end of things in my (admittedly limited) experience, but  are highly saturated and have a degree of surface tension that can cause  the ink to cling to the insides of cartridges and converters, and also  cause nib creep: the ink will slowly spread outward over the back of the  nib from the slit.

The few Diamine inks I've tried have been "dry" and often difficult to get started in fine-nibbed pens.


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## IPD_Mr (Feb 15, 2012)

Mike makes a very good point that is preached over and over again.  You will also find that some inks are so disliked that they will void a warranty.  This is due to the saturation of the pigments being so high. 

And if you are using the cartridge that came with the pen that could be a big part of your problem as well.


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## Fibonacci (Feb 15, 2012)

I have been using private reserve cartridges and noodler ink with a converter.  

I will try widening the tip as suggested.


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## jjudge (Feb 15, 2012)

Relevant note, in re: ink flow or "wetness"

I have a cheap, Pelikan P55 that flows EASY. I had it stored (with ink) for a year, then uncapped and used it readily.

P55s are known for that.


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## chrisk (Feb 15, 2012)

Assuming you check the slit and tines and the latter seem OK, IMHO move the feeder a bit forward.
1. unscrew the section from your pen
2. disassemble feeder + nib from the section after checking the position of the feeder on the back of the nib
3. move the feeder a bit forward, towards the tip of the nib *
4. reassemble

* By doing this, take care to center your feeder on the back of your nib as explained here (2d paragraph + pictures): http://content.penturners.org/library/techniques/BTN2-2008.pdf

If the above tip doesn't work, proceed as other colleagues suggested above.

It works for me since (after checking for other problems, like misaligned tines...) I adapt, this way, every fountain pen I sell to my customers. I let them try with a bit of ink and if they want more (or less) ink I adjust the feeder to their needs, that is + or - ink flowing, by moving the feeder forward or backward (on the back of the nib) respectively. A cartridge, (a pray), a new try,...


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## Fibonacci (Feb 16, 2012)

Widening the slit made all the difference in the world.

Thanks all!


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## IPD_Mr (Feb 16, 2012)

Great to hear Jason.  It is fun to see the pride and enjoyment people get when they can adjust their own nibs to suit them.


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