# Finaly found my finishing technic!



## alparent (Sep 15, 2006)

Like many of us (I'm sure) I've tried about all the finishing technics out there. After reading all the treads on finishing, asking alot of questions and reading Russ's site over and over and over. I think I got It!

Before I start I most tell you that I am a perfectionist. I've seen pens for sell at craft shows that would never even go out of my shop.
So If you find I'm over doing it or if you thing some steps can be dropped, please let me know.

1- I first sand with 120 with the lathe going half speed.
2- Then I stop the lathe and sand in the direction of the grain: 120, 150, 180, 220, 320, 400, 600, then micromesh to 12000.
3- After that I air brush thinned down Deft (about 4 coats) as a filler/sealer.
4- I then sand with 400 (always with the lathe off and in he direction of the grain) until the surface is all smooth (no more little holes.) Then 600 and micromesh to 12000.
5- After that I give it another 2 coats of thinned down Deft.
6- Sand with 600 and micromesh to 12000
7- Final step is a buffing with Nu Finish car past wax.

The multiple coats of Deft really brings out the grain and gives it richness I did not get with CA.

Next I want to try Trade Secret car wax instead of Nu Finish. (Don't know if it will make a big difference? But I won't know if I don't try!)

Thanks to all of you that answered my many newby questions and for your patience. *I think I finally got it.*


----------



## ctEaglesc (Sep 15, 2006)

I'm glad you are happy with your rsults, sounds like a good regime to me.
I do wonder about all the sanding with the grain though.How do you see if the preceding sanding marks are out?
One more thought.
Sanding with 600 grit and then starting with MM means you are backing down to an approximate 400 grit with the mm.


----------



## Skye (Sep 15, 2006)

> _Originally posted by alparent_
> Next I want to try Trade Secret car wax



That's not a car wax, so you're not going to find it at PepBoys []


----------



## ctEaglesc (Sep 15, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Skye_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...


Skye I'm glad to see that you are posting again but I have to call you on this one.
There is indeed a car wax with that name.
WHATSAMATTER Google down?[]


----------



## Skye (Sep 15, 2006)

Google is never down. Neeeeevvvvaaaaaarrrrr!

Heh, had no idea there was a car wax called that. I assume he may have gotten confused by the Trade Secret mentioned here often as opposed to the stuff you put on a Pinto.


----------



## ctEaglesc (Sep 15, 2006)

"as opposed to the stuff you put on a Pinto."
I think its' flammable


----------



## alparent (Sep 15, 2006)

> _Originally posted by ctEaglesc_
> <br />I do wonder about all the sanding with the grain though.How do you see if the preceding sanding marks are out?



On most of the pens I've looked at I can detect small cross grain line. (Remember, I'm a perfectionist!) No matter how good you are, sanding againts the grain is sanding againts the grain. The first thing I learned in woodworking is that you always sand with the grain. So why would pens be different? So I always sanded my pend in the direction of the grain and never add any problems with sanding marks.



> [One more thought.
> Sanding with 600 grit and then starting with MM means you are backing down to an approximate 400 grit with the mm.



I'm using a set of micromesh that I have since my model car days. It's starts at 3200. (I don't know what that is equal to?)



> ]_Originally posted by Skye_
> <br />That's not a car wax, so you're not going to find it at PepBoys



From what I read, it IS car wax. It was just repackaged and sold to us as TSW. It's called Trade Secret Carnauba Wax. You are right, you can't get this at PepBoys! But you can get it from these guys http://www.topoftheline.com/toltradcarwa.html
Look at the ingredients and see for yourself!


----------



## alparent (Sep 15, 2006)

Buy the way! Is the TSW whe know and love stile available? I've seen it marked as discontinued on some venders sites?


----------



## Skye (Sep 15, 2006)

Dunno, donâ€™t see it on Lou's website....  Did I miss something in my hiatus?


----------



## alparent (Sep 15, 2006)

Did You? 
Have a look at this tread! 
The 10th post is where the hammer drops! http://www.penturners.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16060&SearchTerms=trade,secret

(Hope I don't get in trouble for doing this!)


----------



## Skye (Sep 15, 2006)

Good grief, how do I alway manage to step on the landmines?

Eh, may as well let this sleeping bear stay that way...


----------



## alparent (Sep 15, 2006)

Wise words!


----------



## alparent (Sep 15, 2006)

Bottom line is I wanted to say thanks to all of you that take the time to share with the rest of us. This site is the best![][][][]


----------



## ctEaglesc (Sep 15, 2006)

"The first thing I learned in woodworking is that you always sand with the grain."

Not necessarily nor do you always plane with the grain.


----------



## loglugger (Sep 15, 2006)

I have always been told that after you get the sealer coat on you donâ€™t have to sand with the grain anymore, that it doesnâ€™t make any difference witch way you go. 
Bob


----------



## ctEaglesc (Sep 15, 2006)

> _Originally posted by loglugger_
> <br />I have always been told that after you get the sealer coat on you donâ€™t have to sand with the grain anymore, that it doesnâ€™t make any difference witch way you go.
> Bob


You don't HAVE to do anything, After seeing the pens from China I think the same guy told them that to.


----------



## melogic (Sep 15, 2006)

> _Originally posted by alparent_
> <br />Buy the way! Is the TSW whe know and love stile available? I've seen it marked as discontinued on some venders sites?



The answer is yes! You can still purchase TSW from Pens of Color or BigRob. Look at one of BigRobs post in the Business classified forum.


----------



## RussFairfield (Sep 15, 2006)

I deleted my message because it was not correct. There is a difference between TSW and the Trade Secrets Auto Wax. The car wax contains silicones. The wood wax does not.

Silicones should be avoided because they can contaminate everything in the shop and interfere with other finishes.


----------



## alamocdc (Sep 16, 2006)

> _Originally posted by RussFairfield_
> <br />Silicones should be avoided because they can contaminate everything in the shop and interfere with other finishes.



Yep, and anyone that paints or preps cars will tell you. Silicone is very difficult to remove and will fish eye a lacquer or urethane finish in a heartbeat.


----------



## mdburn_em (Sep 16, 2006)

Russ,
I may be showing my ignorance (if you know you're ignorant is that a bad thing?)but I was wondering if you could share how you know that TSW doesn't have silicone and TSAW does?  I enjoyed observing you testing the different finishes for hardness in your video and would guess you have some similar test to check for silicone.
I guess I should declare that I have both TSW and TSAW.


----------



## cozee (Sep 16, 2006)

> _Originally posted by alamocdc_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...



Yep, silicons can be a pain but if one takes steps to maintain cleanliness within the shop, they should pose no problems at all. In the bodyshop where I work we frequently use detailing products which contain silicon. Making sure the surface to be finished is completely clean is #1 and usually the real fault behind finish problems. I have seen more body oil contamination than those caused by silicon. Also, most silivcon contamination comes from aresol products which atomize. Paste wax, even when dried and turned to powder doesn't post much of a problem unless one is working in the midst of it. I use a paste wax on my pens that contains silicon and have had no problems and I apply it while the pen is on the lathe. But again, I am sure to keep things (lathe and general work area) clean and do have a separate cloth for waxing and it is stored in a zip lock when not in use. When in doubt concerning contamination, a wipe down with a wax and grease remover should dispell any hidden problems. 

Curious as to how many have finish problems and don't realize that when they finger a blank with thier bare hands they leave body oil on the blank, then the finish or something else gets the blame?!!!!


----------



## RussFairfield (Sep 16, 2006)

I have always thought that the warning against silicones is overstated. We have to be really sloppy in our work habits for them to be a problem. However, I always recommend that beginners to finishing avoid any contact with silicones because they can be a problem, and beginners usually have enough problems already without adding one more.  

The easiest test for silicones is to apply a coat of the wax to a polished smooth piece of wood, let it sit for a day, and then spray lacquer on it. If you are having a problem with "fish eyes", then you have a contamination problem, and silicones are the most likely cause, and waxes the most likely source.

Most contaiminates are carried by our fingers, and finger oils can be one of them. I think finger oils are one of our biggest problems with finishing. Fortunately, I don't have this problem because I am always wiping the wood with my fingers. If I did, I would be using a paper towel.

If we have a contamination problem, we can clean and prime the wood for a spray lacquer by wiping off the 1st coat. The solvents and the wiping removes any contaminates and leaves a primed surface behind.


----------



## alparent (Sep 18, 2006)

So Russ, You are saying that you tried that test on both TSW and TSAW and found that TSAW as silicone in it?


----------



## Mike_in_CA (Sep 25, 2006)

Alparent, you said if someone saw a step that could be eliminated to speak up, consider this.
If you're going from 120-12000 then spraying and going back to 400 in my humble opinion is being redundant.
I would think that with a spray on finish you could stop the first sanding at 400 or 600. Spray the Deft, then start with 400 or 600  again. Spray, then use 400 or 600. Using 600 grit between spraying coats is pretty smooth. When you're finished with the number of spray coats you like, then go all the way to 12000 MM. 

Believe me, I'm not telling you you're wrong, only consider. To go through grits to 12k means you're polishing the wood, spraying and polishing over from the beginning over and over.  
Mike


----------



## ctEaglesc (Sep 25, 2006)

When I spray lacquer I level it out with all the nine grits of MM.The "chatter" while sanding tells me when I ma "finished" with each grit. 
It may take a number of coats to level the surface before the build coats go on.


----------

