# How many coats is enough?



## Dale Allen (Dec 6, 2012)

Well, I usually only use 8-10 CA coats and it has been going OK.
Looking at this one under a real strong mag I could still see some real fine scratch marks.
So, I went back and used a 3500 grit _Mirka Mirlon_ scuff pad to knock down those scratches.  Probably not the best thing I could have used as it was a bit too aggressive.
Good thing this was just a test and a stock pen.  As you can see, there was one tiny spot that went through to the wood.
So, I take off a few layers and begin again.
I guess I'm still learning.:laugh:


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## SerenityWoodWorks (Dec 6, 2012)

what CA are you using? Thin? Med? I give 3 coats of Med, then scuff sand with 600 wet...then 20 coats of thin.


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## Dale Allen (Dec 6, 2012)

Wow, that's a lot of coats.  I now only use insta-bond.
I only use medium when I have small grain pock marks to fill.  This sanded out real smooth so I used all thin.  I did sand with 600 until there were no shinny spots and then ran the sequence of 1500 thru 12K, then polish.  It was after all of that when I used the scuff pad.
BTW, do you use a polish and what kind?  I have been using a swirl remover made for car finishes but am thinking that the plastic polish or something else may be better.
Thanks.  20-20 or ultra gloss maybe?


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## longbeard (Dec 6, 2012)

I use med ca, anywhere from 5 -8 coats, accelerator on every coat, then MM thru the grits, novus #2 & #3 to polish and i'm done.


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## NotURMailman (Dec 7, 2012)

I honestly dont understand all of the issues sanding through CA finishes. I took me atleast 30 CA finish pens, some stripped and refinished several times, to get any kind of consistent results. So, I am certainly not claiming to be an expert or anything even close. 

But the last 10 or so I have done have consisted of 4 coats of medium CA. I wet sand smooth with 220 automotive wet/dry sand paper. Then I run lightly through all of the MicroMesh pads (wet) before polishing with plastic polish. I can not see any scratches or anything with a magnifying glass. 

Prior to the CA I sand to final size with 80. Then I sand with 120, 180, 220, 400, 600, 800, 1200. Then I wipe down with BLO and let dry. Then I use all of the MicroMesh pads dry. (I have one set of MM for wet and one for dry.) Then I wipe down with DNA. Then I move on to the CA.

The finish actually looks like glass. I have no idea why it works. I don't know which steps I don't need, or should really not do. I just know it has worked for me multiple times in a row, so I will keep doing it until it doesn't any more.

I'm really not a fan of CA finish, but some woods just cry out for high gloss and CA is a good way for an impatient person to do that.


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## JohnU (Dec 7, 2012)

Im no expert but what works for me is... After Ive finished sanding down to 600 grit, I start with thin CA so it soaks in real good, and put three to four layers, depending on the wood (how open the grain is and how soft the wood is).  Then I switch to medium and apply ten to fifteen coats depending on how quickly it gets smooth.  If there are any pits or grain that dont smooth out with the rest of the surface, I just contiue until its all nice and smooth. Then I wet sand micromesh and polish.


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## Lenny (Dec 7, 2012)

I agree with what John said .... That's pretty much what I do. 
The number of coats is more dependent on how much I have sanded below finished size and need to build back up to get a good fit. Digital calipers will help immensely here.


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## Dale Allen (Dec 7, 2012)

I sometimes get to the point where I wonder how much time is 'too much' time spent on a set of blanks.  I can still see those fine scratches, even though it shines very well.  The swirl remover I am using may not have enough abrasion in it to do the job.  That Novus stuff looks like the ticket, but I may not be able to find it locally.
At least this time I didn't sand through to the wood.


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## tomas (Dec 8, 2012)

I use 16 coats of medium CA.  Before the CA, I sand up through 600 using Abranet. Then I wipe it off with DNA.  After 8 coats of CA, I check for any flaws and if I find any, I make a very light pass with my PenPro and then add the other 8 coats of CA.  I then use all the levels of Micro Mesh wet and moving rapidly side to side.

Tomas


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## Dalecamino (Dec 8, 2012)

Three coats of thin, six coats of medium. Wet sand with MM pads, Novus 2, Meguiars PlastX, and swirl remover. Buffing with plastic compounds is better IMO, if you have a buffer.


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## plantman (Dec 8, 2012)

Dale; I think your missing the point !! The finish is only as good as the base under it. You can put 2 coats on or 200 coats on, if you have any imperfections on any one coat it is going to show through. It's not the number of coats!! It's like putting lipstick on a pig. Under the makeup, it's still a pig. The most importent part of making a pen is the sanding !! I agree with Lenny, it"s not the number of coats that matters, it"s what they are applied over. I see a lot of people on this site that put 15-40 coats of CA on their pens. Nothing wrong with that, but I look at it as 15-40 times you can ruin the finish or introduce flaws. Eveybody has their own method that works for them, and I wouldn't want to change that, but this is my method. If my blank is punky or cracked, I will soak it with thin CA before turning. As I turn it down I will stop the lathe every 3-4 passes and check the wood. Turn the wood to the size you need. Measure often. Now I will sand the blank, no power, with 400 paper lengthwise. Clean off the dust with a tac rag. Next I will run over it with 1200 paper lenghtwise until all tool marks are removed. I then apply about 4 coats of GAP FILLING CA with accelerator between coats. Have a light shining directly on your blank to show up the shiny finish. Sand again, no power, with the 400 paper lengthwise on your blank to remove all shiny areas. Clean with tac rag. Resand with the 1200. Clean with the tac rag. Apply several coats of polish and your done. Plain and simple !! So, why don't I sand under power ?? If you have tool marks on your blank, a large grain particle on you sandpaper, or micro pads, it will leave a ring around your blank that is hard to remove. Sanding lengthwise is usualy with the grain, and you will not take down any soft areas in the wood, or work through the finish. Why don't I use MM on my pens?? On wood it seems to be a waste of time. You are dealing with an open grain that your going to have to fill anyway. As long as its smooth to the touch it's fine. I do use MM on acrylics, but you can do in 3 steps what will take you 10 with MM. You can get things to smooth and have trouble getting a finish to stick on oily woods. Why not wet sand ?? I don't like water on my lathes, it's something else that has to be cleaned off your blank after every grit , and it takes to much time. The only time I will use more than 6 coats of CA, is when I want to build up the finished size of the pen to match the fittings. Righ or wrong, that's the way I do it. Merry Christmas to all !!!! Jiim S


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## Dale Allen (Dec 8, 2012)

Jim, I understand your point and thank you for explaining your process.  There are some things in there that I will be considering.
As for the base, that part is fine.  The imperfections I am seeing are very small and I cannot even capture them in a photo.  They are in the surface of the CA, not in the underlying wood.  Up to now I had not even bothered to look that close.  I just think I can get a little bit more shine and gloss depth if I can polish it a bit more.


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## Dalecamino (Dec 8, 2012)

Jim, you may be right. I've missed the point before :redface: I am simply opposed to applying 12+ coats of CA, just to sand it back off down to the required diameter. That in itself is a waste of time and glue. Also, I can't see covering imperfections with anything. There shouldn't be any. There must be 500 different ways to do this, and you've posted yours. I'm sure it works for you, and hope it works for anyone else who wants to do it your way. I do it my way, and it works for me. I'm on a budget, and can't afford to go overboard on coats of CA.


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## tomas (Dec 8, 2012)

Any kind of sanding or polishing involves abrasives, the difference is just how coarse or fine it is.  I remember a thread a while back where the guy was looking at his finishes under a 10x glass. Since all finishing involves abrasives, they all leave scratches and if you use a powerful enough magnification you will always see the scratches.  If I cannot see scratches with my naked eye, I am satisfied and I have never had a pen recipient complain about scratches in the finish.  There is no perfect, i.e., scratchless, finish. IMHO

Tomas


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