# Bad customer report



## Crickett (Mar 7, 2011)

I know the first thing you’ll think is: Never send goods without payment first but ... 

I thought I hit the big time when I was contacted by a "business man" from Texas who had seen my pens posted on another forum. We talked on the phone many times and he ordered a pen, even paid for overnight shipping from Canada. Upon receipt he was delighted and wanted 4 more. I thought now that we had a business relationship and I could trust him to send me a cheque when I shipped them with cases and spare refills ... that was 12 weeks ago. In that time he's assured me by phone that the cheque "was in the mail" and shocked I hadn't received it, he said he would send another ...it's not here yet. Just sayin'...

If anyone lives in the Corpus Christie/Mathais area and would like to discuss this further, please PM me.


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## hilltopper46 (Mar 7, 2011)

These reports are tough to read. I'm like you - probably a little too trusting. But, try to remember that just because someone else is dishonest, that doesn't mean you have to change who you are.

Easier said than done, I know.

And next time, get full payment before shipping.


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## Lenny (Mar 7, 2011)

How did he pay for the first pen? Would you have information obtained from that transaction that would help you file a claim against him somehow?


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## Mack C. (Mar 7, 2011)

Crickett said:


> I know the first thing you’ll think is: Never send goods without payment first but ...
> 
> I thought I hit the big time when I was contacted by a "business man" from Texas who had seen my pens posted on another forum. We talked on the phone many times and he ordered a pen, even paid for overnight shipping from Canada. Upon receipt he was delighted and wanted 4 more. I thought now that we had a business relationship and I could trust him to send me a cheque when I shipped them with cases and spare refills ... that was 12 weeks ago. In that time he's assured me by phone that the cheque "was in the mail" and shocked I hadn't received it, he said he would send another ...it's not here yet. Just sayin'...
> 
> If anyone lives in the Corpus Christie/Mathais area and would like to discuss this further, please PM me.


Oh, that just bugs me to know end!

Marla and I Skype once a week, and when she told me about the contact she made in Texas, while I was so happy for her, I had some apprehension, but there was no way I was going to burst her balloon!

Many times I have done what she did, send goods pending payment, but I have never been stiffed once. All the people I was doing business with were woodworkers/penturners (salt of the earth people).

Marla; Have QC Inspector pick me up on his way to Texas, we may have to break a few kneecaps!

I am so sorry!


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## Edward Cypher (Mar 7, 2011)

It is a shame one or two people ruin it for everyone.  Trust is hard to come by and even harder to regain once someone has lost it.  I hope he eventually makes good on it.


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## Smitty37 (Mar 7, 2011)

*Advice - small comfort*

I have sent goods several times without getting payment first.  I've been burned a couple.  I guess the only advice I can give is forget that one and get on with the rest of your life.  Maybe he'll come through and make you happy but don't dwell on it.


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## IPD_Mrs (Mar 7, 2011)

I really hate to say it, but dealing outside of the IAP is a lot different.  The dealings with folks on here can lead to a false sense of security when dealing with other entities.  Stuff like this is hard to swallow.

Mack I like your idea, but I would hate for the CRMP to take you away for making a needed correction for a friend.


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## hunter-27 (Mar 7, 2011)

With all the folks on here from TX, maybe someone is close by and could go for a visit to him.  Just a thought.


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## simomatra (Mar 7, 2011)

Marla I feel for you, that real blow. I have done it a few time and luckily have survived.

I have had a fellow lurking with an order that I somehow get the feeling I don't trust what he is up to so I have for gone the sale and put it down to experience. My sister in law just got done for 3.k K on an internet scam recently.

I do hope that in the long run a cheque does turn up and does not bounce. Cheques are not a way I would have for payment. Years ago we used to own a hotel in the outback and got stiffed a couple of times with cheques until I started putting them on display for all to see and that fixed that.


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## Andrew_K99 (Mar 7, 2011)

Not that I am there yet, or will be, I think I would always want 50% of an order before sending it away, hopefully that would at least cover costs if the remaining is never paid.  Any honest person would pay the 50% without question.

Hey Mac, where are my blanks .  It's been, what 10 whole days! :biggrin:


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## Crickett (Mar 7, 2011)

hunter-27 said:


> With all the folks on here from TX, maybe someone is close by and could go for a visit to him.  Just a thought.



My thoughts exactly. :wink:  And I'd even split the money with them if they are able to collect.

I haven't lost my trust in people but the funny thing is after I made the first pen for him and he wanted it mailed with over-night delivery I said, "Hey, wait a minute, you don't even know what the pen costs."  His reply in his Texan accent was, "We have a saying here in Texas, do you want to kiss me first?"  I guess I'm the one who should have been asking for the kiss because I was the one who got ...


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## Jim in Oakville (Mar 7, 2011)

Hey Marla,

I am sorry to hear that someone has taken advantage of your trust.  I sell my work by the rule, you try it first, if you like it you mail me a cheque, if not, then mail me back the pen.  I can honestly say I have not lost once in 10+ years of this practice.  To hear that someone disrespected you like this is upsetting.  I hope all is resolved soon.


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## Crickett (Mar 7, 2011)

Jim in Oakville said:


> Hey Marla,
> 
> I am sorry to hear that someone has taken advantage of your trust.  I sell my work by the rule, you try it first, if you like it you mail me a cheque, if not, then mail me back the pen.  I can honestly say I have not lost once in 10+ years of this practice.  To hear that someone disrespected you like this is upsetting.  I hope all is resolved soon.



Thanks Jim, but this has been going on since December so I don't think there will be a resolution, that's why I'm letting other people know.  If they are dealing with someone that sounds like it could be this person then they are welcome to PM me and we can see if it's the same person.  I should add that he wants antler pens.


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## Mack C. (Mar 8, 2011)

Andrew_K99 said:


> Not that I am there yet, or will be, I think I would always want 50% of an order before sending it away, hopefully that would at least cover costs if the remaining is never paid. Any honest person would pay the 50% without question.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Dagwood (Mar 8, 2011)

Money up front Marla....

It's a learning experience, and one to move on from.


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## Andrew_K99 (Mar 8, 2011)

Mack C. said:


> Andrew_K99 said:
> 
> 
> > Not that I am there yet, or will be, I think I would always want 50% of an order before sending it away, hopefully that would at least cover costs if the remaining is never paid. Any honest person would pay the 50% without question.
> ...


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## Boz (Mar 8, 2011)

Back in the early 80's I was running a small photo processing shop in Denver.  We would get a fair number of bad checks from customers.  I had an employiee whose husband was a Denver police officer.  I would hand him the checks and he would just happen to stop by their house on his way home in his police cruiser and in uniform.  He was a very effective collections agent.  I would split the money with him.


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## hunter-27 (Mar 8, 2011)

Marla

I was serious when I suggested looking for a TX member close to where he lives.  I had a problem with a company in Houston and there was a member here who personally went to them for me and resolved the issue.  The thank you package I sent him was minimal to the trouble it saved me.  It does not have to be an "ugly" visit to get you paid I'm sure.  Knowing that a face to face conversation can arrive at any time, most likely would encourage payment.  He can't hide behind a computer or phone when the knock at the door comes.  Post the city and see who might live there.


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## Curly (Mar 8, 2011)

Perhaps the IAP would consider putting together a "Bad Customer List" along the same lines as is being considered for the members that don't fulfil their swap obligations. When an unknown potential customer makes contact we can verify that they, at least to that point, are not a known fink.

When it comes to payment even a cheque in hand may not protect you because the Bank may hold the funds on it for a couple weeks before it clears and by then it's too late. In the future we will only take Paypal, wire transfers,  certified checks, money orders and the like, Or a wad full of cash  before shipping to anyone we can't reach out and touch later.  :hammer::beat-up::doctor:

Marla isn't looking for sympathy (but it is appreciated) as much as she wants to warn others of the ratbag. Me I would name him outright but we don't want to cause the IAP any legal problems.

This will likely be the last time this ever happens again and we hope it never happens to any of you.

Pete


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## louie68 (Mar 8, 2011)

Marla to protect yourself next time look into Pay Pal account with pay pal they send electronic payment to you. And you don't send the pens until the money is in your Pay Pal account. There is a slight fee but at least you won't get stiff from jerks like that guy.Maybe one of those good o'l boys can make a visit to the A$% H%#$.
Or if he has a business maybe you can get someone to order something from him twice the value of what he purchase from you  and then STIFF him BACK!!!


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## Daniel (Mar 8, 2011)

Payment before shipping. I do that even when I was doign group buys. Well had to for group buys casue otherwise Ididn't have the money to ship. But still it is not an issue of trusting someone for me as much as just a good way to manage things. Bad things happen even when dealing with good people. For me it is best to only have one problem to work on at a time. I don't except payment until a pen is finished, and I don't ship it until I have been paid. Sorry that someone took advantage of your trust and eagerness to please a customer.


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## Crickett (Mar 8, 2011)

hunter-27 said:


> Marla
> 
> I was serious when I suggested looking for a TX member close to where he lives.  I had a problem with a company in Houston and there was a member here who personally went to them for me and resolved the issue.  The thank you package I sent him was minimal to the trouble it saved me.  It does not have to be an "ugly" visit to get you paid I'm sure.  Knowing that a face to face conversation can arrive at any time, most likely would encourage payment.  He can't hide behind a computer or phone when the knock at the door comes.  Post the city and see who might live there.



The area is Corpus Christie/Mathais Texas.

How close is Nebraska? :wink:


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## hunter-27 (Mar 8, 2011)

Quite a road trip but I'm sure there are folks closer that would help.


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## rtrimyer (Mar 8, 2011)

I am in San Antonio, Texas.  I have relatives near Corpus Christi, give me the info and I will see what I can do.  If you don't mind my asking, since I am in Law Enforcement how much is it that he owes?  Theft of service has several different categories depending on the amount.  I can definitely check in on this person next time I go home to visit my parents, Mathis is on the way.


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## Andrew_K99 (Mar 8, 2011)

rtrimyer said:


> ... I am in Law Enforcement ... I can definitely check in on this person ...


I love this place! :biggrin:


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## Ligget (Mar 8, 2011)

Sorry to hear that Marla!


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## hunter-27 (Mar 8, 2011)

rtrimyer said:


> I am in San Antonio, Texas.  I have relatives near Corpus Christi, give me the info and I will see what I can do.  If you don't mind my asking, since I am in Law Enforcement how much is it that he owes?  Theft of service has several different categories depending on the amount.  I can definitely check in on this person next time I go home to visit my parents, Mathis is on the way.


I knew there would be someone close by.  The law enforcement part is a quite fitting bit of "icing on the cake" Notice I said CAKE, not doughnut.  :biggrin::wink:


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## Jgrden (Mar 8, 2011)

If the buyer has a credit card and is willing to put the amount on the card and give us the information we will run it through for you and send you the money, minus the discount. Sounds like he is "stiffing" you though. I like San Antonio's approach. The man needs to be taught some manners.


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## rtrimyer (Mar 8, 2011)

hunter-27 said:


> [I knew there would be someone close by.  The law enforcement part is a quite fitting bit of "icing on the cake" Notice I said CAKE, not doughnut.  :biggrin::wink:



Hey I like doughnuts, but the glutin in them does not like me...


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## Crickett (May 10, 2011)

I thought I would update everyone on this thread about what happened with my "bad" customer. 

I was contacted by an IAP member who works in Corpus Christi and as it happens they live 5 minutes away from each other!! After exchanging some information he was able to collect the funds in the form of a cheque  and mailed it to me. My bank held it for two weeks to make sure it cleared and now I've been paid in full. 

The best part about it is I've made a great friend out of it, thank-you!


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## Hess (May 10, 2011)

Smitty37 said:


> I have sent goods several times without getting payment first.  I've been burned a couple.  I guess the only advice I can give is forget that one and get on with the rest of your life.  Maybe he'll come through and make you happy but don't dwell on it.



Smithy I thank you for that when you do it too  sometimes it may take me till that night to get on pp and it is always good to see you and Ryan at WT do that when you dont have to


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## pianomanpj (May 10, 2011)

Congrats, Marla! That is wonderful to hear!


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## thewishman (May 10, 2011)

Thanks for the update. It is nice to have friends!


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## sbwertz (May 10, 2011)

I have never been stiffed for a pen, but I am a computer consultant and I've been stiffed a few times by clients.  Strangely enough, it is the big companies that are usually the ones most likely to be slow or non-payers.  More than once I've had to tell them "Yes I will come fix your computer, but there will have to be a check waiting for me for the balance you owe me before I walk in the door."  Funny, but the little Mom & Pop places and home users have NEVER stiffed me and I have had my own computer consulting company since 1980.


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## wolftat (May 10, 2011)

I have to say that I totally agree that this is a rotten thing to have had happen, but sending someone to the persons home to talk with him about it can be an even bigger mistake. If someone were to show up at my home, I would take that as a threat and would react likewise. I have been taught to take the threat out of the equation at whatever cost. Someone coming around the place where my family lives would cause a reaction that could result in something you don't want to think about. I would send him a nice email, letting him know that you still have not received a check and request that he send a paypal payment or an echeck. In the future, you may want to conduct all business transaction through email so there is always a record of what transpired. Good luck with whatever choice you make.


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## Woodlvr (May 10, 2011)

Marla, I am happy to hear that you were able to get your issue resolved. Congrats.


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## Padre (May 10, 2011)

sbwertz said:


> I have never been stiffed for a pen, but I am a computer consultant and I've been stiffed a few times by clients.  Strangely enough, it is the big companies that are usually the ones most likely to be slow or non-payers.  More than once I've had to tell them "Yes I will come fix your computer, but there will have to be a check waiting for me for the balance you owe me before I walk in the door."  Funny, but the little Mom & Pop places and home users have NEVER stiffed me and I have had my own computer consulting company since 1980.



The "Mom and Pop" places are like you and me, and they depend on the goodwill of others to keep their doors open.  Big companies just sometimes 'forget' about us little folk.:frown:


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## Padre (May 10, 2011)

Another thought: money up front is the best policy.  Like Neil said, sending someone to someone's home/business can be dangerous.


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## Smitty37 (May 10, 2011)

*Well good*

I'm glad you got paid.

Some people just need to be reminded. Often.  I recall being president of a youth sports organization many years ago.  We had a treasurer who was as honest as the day is long but ..... we actually had to go to his house every few months to get him to deposit the money in the bank or write the checks to pay our bills.  He just always had something he'd rather be doing than running to the bank or paying bills.


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## Curly (May 10, 2011)

wolftat said:


> I have to say that I totally agree that this is a rotten thing to have had happen, but sending someone to the persons home to talk with him about it can be an even bigger mistake. If someone were to show up at my home, I would take that as a threat and would react likewise. I have been taught to take the threat out of the equation at whatever cost. Someone coming around the place where my family lives would cause a reaction that could result in something you don't want to think about. I would send him a nice email, letting him know that you still have not received a check and request that he send a paypal payment or an echeck. In the future, you may want to conduct all business transaction through email so there is always a record of what transpired. Good luck with whatever choice you make.



Just to clarify.

Multiple polite attempts were made by Marla to contact the "defaulter" by email and telephone. At first he responded with a number of "sorry I have been out of town on business". Then it was "check is in the mail". Then came "I will send another check". Finally no more responses.

The "bill collector" called the "defaulter" and politely explained he was Marla's friend and asked when would be a good time to come for the money. He got the same runaround about "going out of town on business" and that "the check was sent". When the "defaulter" returned from his "business trip" he was again called and was "politely" asked when it would be a good time to come over. Arrangements were made and the members wife, on the way to work, went in to his place of business and picked up the check. 

The purpose of Marla's thread was to warn IAP members that there was a "bad customer" in that part of Texas. If they are contacted by someone from that area wanting pens to contact her and she would let let them know who it is, with the hope that the "defaulter" wouldn't screw them too. Not to look for collectors. As it happens there are a lot of good people on the IAP that help one another and there were two that offered to look into the matter. They are both great people!

Now a little about the "defaulter". He claimed to be a famous boot maker and bragged about having Senators and famous people among his circle of friends and customers. That was a lie. He has the same name but isn't a famous anything, (well maybe scumbag) so if you google the boot maker the story is "verified" and you are sucked into believing you are selling to the real deal. His "place of business" is actually (maybe owns but I doubt it) a place that sells trailers and RV's etc. This guy figured he could get away with his con because nobody would ever come across a continent, much less than from another country, to get the money.

Pete


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## titan2 (May 10, 2011)

sbwertz said:


> I have never been stiffed for a pen, but I am a computer consultant and I've been stiffed a few times by clients. Strangely enough, it is the big companies that are usually the ones most likely to be slow or non-payers. More than once I've had to tell them "Yes I will come fix your computer, but there will have to be a check waiting for me for the balance you owe me before I walk in the door." Funny, but the little Mom & Pop places and home users have NEVER stiffed me and I have had my own computer consulting company since 1980.


 

My son also does computer consulting from home. He's done work for companies all over the US. *(You ever did any work for Broken Arrow in AZ?)* He'll have to do it a little long distance after next year.....his wife is being stationed in Japan.


Barney


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## sbwertz (May 10, 2011)

titan2 said:


> My son also does computer consulting from home. He's done work for companies all over the US. *(You ever did any work for Broken Arrow in AZ?)* He'll have to do it a little long distance after next year.....his wife is being stationed in Japan.
> 
> 
> Barney


 
With the good remote control software out there now, you can do a LOT of computer recovery over the internet.  Check out LOGMEIN.  I support computers in CA, OK, Ny, CO, etc.  (It is hard to change out a hard drive by remote control, however:biggrin:


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## glen r (May 10, 2011)

Marla, great to hear that you got your money.  From now on its pay first, then get the pen(s).


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## Daniel (May 10, 2011)

My policy is my costs up front to even make a pen (non refundable). that is the cost of parts and materials. then the remainder of payment when it is ready to ship. I will send photos of the finished pen etc if they want to decide if they want to see what they are buying.


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## witz1976 (May 10, 2011)

Daniel said:


> My policy is my costs up front to even make a pen (non refundable). that is the cost of parts and materials. then the remainder of payment when it is ready to ship. I will send photos of the finished pen etc if they want to decide if they want to see what they are buying.



That is my policy too if the customer causes a stink, otherwise I get it all upfront.  It is very rare that people raise a stink :biggrin:


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## sbell111 (May 11, 2011)

IPD_Mrs said:


> I really hate to say it, but dealing outside of the IAP is a lot different.  The dealings with folks on here can lead to a false sense of security when dealing with other entities.


Actually not so different.  IAP members have been burned rather well by other members.


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## babyblues (May 13, 2011)

wolftat said:


> I have to say that I totally agree that this is a rotten thing to have had happen, but sending someone to the persons home to talk with him about it can be an even bigger mistake. If someone were to show up at my home, I would take that as a threat and would react likewise. I have been taught to take the threat out of the equation at whatever cost. Someone coming around the place where my family lives would cause a reaction that could result in something you don't want to think about. I would send him a nice email, letting him know that you still have not received a check and request that he send a paypal payment or an echeck. In the future, you may want to conduct all business transaction through email so there is always a record of what transpired. Good luck with whatever choice you make.



If someone stole 4 pens from you and you knew where they lived, would you or would you not go over and confront them? Just sayin. :biggrin:


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## wolftat (May 13, 2011)

babyblues said:


> wolftat said:
> 
> 
> > I have to say that I totally agree that this is a rotten thing to have had happen, but sending someone to the persons home to talk with him about it can be an even bigger mistake. If someone were to show up at my home, I would take that as a threat and would react likewise. I have been taught to take the threat out of the equation at whatever cost. Someone coming around the place where my family lives would cause a reaction that could result in something you don't want to think about. I would send him a nice email, letting him know that you still have not received a check and request that he send a paypal payment or an echeck. In the future, you may want to conduct all business transaction through email so there is always a record of what transpired. Good luck with whatever choice you make.
> ...


 If someone stole 4 pens from me, they would be hauling their carcass away before he ever got home. And yes, I would probably confront them, but that is also the reason I don't recommend others do that.


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## babyblues (May 13, 2011)

wolftat said:


> If someone stole 4 pens from me, they would be hauling their carcass away before he ever got home. And yes, I would probably confront them, but that is also the reason I don't recommend others do that.



So, can I call you if someone in your area owes me money?


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## DurocShark (May 14, 2011)

Padre said:


> sbwertz said:
> 
> 
> > I have never been stiffed for a pen, but I am a computer consultant and I've been stiffed a few times by clients.  Strangely enough, it is the big companies that are usually the ones most likely to be slow or non-payers.  More than once I've had to tell them "Yes I will come fix your computer, but there will have to be a check waiting for me for the balance you owe me before I walk in the door."  Funny, but the little Mom & Pop places and home users have NEVER stiffed me and I have had my own computer consulting company since 1980.
> ...



Extend that... I used to wait tables. I've worked in fancy restaurants, and not so fancy (like the Chicken Dinner Restaurant at Knott's Berry Farm.. yumyumyum). I found that the people that act "moneyed" tip for crap. The "average Joe" type tips awesome. 

The more rarefied the air, the harder it is to crack open the wallet.


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