# Move over Pentel



## its_virgil (Mar 24, 2008)

While in Office Depot for my yearly Turbo Tax fix I was looking at the pen isle for ideas. I found a card of pencils by Foray. Three for $3.99. I tossed them on my shop desk and tonight I played with them. This pencil can be made using the pentel step bit...with a little modification. I'll have more time on Wednesday evening to give all of the details, but until then, be thinking about it. The pencil has no number but on the back of the pckg under the bar code is Item 758-742 and the Office Depot number printed on the receipt is 735854180904. They may be available from other stores. Until Wed evening, here are a couple of pictures.
Do a good turn daily!
Don


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## Randy_ (Mar 25, 2008)

What's the point, Don?  Are they cheaper than Pentels or are they better mechanisms or what??


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## Darley (Mar 25, 2008)

They are cheap Randy  neat Don nice pencil


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## jthompson1995 (Mar 25, 2008)

They are less than half of the best price I've found for the pentels.  I'm curious, though, about the quality of the mechanism.  I know the pentels have a proven record of dependability and just about every engineer I work with or have met use the pentel pencils, many times exclusively.  Most people using mechanical pencils may not care, but the metal sleeve that protects the lead is critical for many engineers and drafters.


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## rincewind03060 (Mar 25, 2008)

Do they come in three lead sizes like the Pentel do?


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## MDWine (Mar 25, 2008)

I paid 9.00 for 2 Pentel pencils on Sunday.  This was supposed to be a deal...
I'm looking at the links that Don provided in another thread for a less expensive alternative source, perhaps now a different base-kit!


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## its_virgil (Mar 25, 2008)

Randy,
The point is these pencils are cheaper than pentels. They come on a card of 3 for $3.99. Do they have better mechanisms? Probably not.I don't think I would sell one of these but use them for the ones I give to friends who use mechanical pencils. The point is that it is just another pencil to make and the pentel bit can be used with a one more drilling step. We are here to share and that's what I'm doing.

Other Questions
Different lead sizes: The only size I found at Office Depot was .7mm. I've not looked for others but I will not that I know the conversion will work.

Better mechanism: Probably not. It is mostly plastic. I've been using one daily for over a week with no problems. 
Do a good turn daily!
Don


> _Originally posted by Randy__
> 
> What's the point, Don?  Are they cheaper than Pentels or are they better mechanisms or what??


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## jskeen (Mar 25, 2008)

Nice to know that there is another source for the mechanisims for making these pens.  I'm curious if the top diameter of the nib is any larger than the pentel, which would make it easier to turn without blowing out the blank at that critical point where the bit steps in.  

As for usability, for the casual writer I can not see much difference, and I'm sure they wouldn't either.  However....for an engineer/draftsman/designer these will not be an acceptable substitute, of that I'm almost positive.  The major reason pentel's are so popular is that the tip of the nib is a straight tube and not a cone, which is critical to accuracy when using triangles, rules, ect. So, while I would consider making some of these, and selling them, I would definately make sure I had some of "The Real McCoy's" in plain sight as well.


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## jwoodwright (Mar 25, 2008)

Very Creative!


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## jthompson1995 (Mar 27, 2008)

For curiosity's sake, I picked up a pack of these whan I went to office depot today.  I picked up the 0.7 mm, but I did see they had 0.5 mm as well.  

The mechanism feels very different, its feels smooth but without a distinct click as is present in the real pentel.  The mechanism also advances the lead about twice as far each time you press the button.  

The black tip on the OD pencil is spring-loaded and pushes into the nib if you press on it.  I guess this is to support the lead so you can write longer between extending the lead.  The black tip is also tapered, so not suitable for using it for drafting or template work. 

I like that the pack comes with 6 extra eraser refills, but the erasers provided fit very loosely into the end of the pencil and do not protrude very much.  I think the one longer, adjustable eraser that comes with the pentel would be able to erase just as much as the OD eraser refilled multiple times and is much less likely to be lost.

The stock barrel is slightly wider than the pentel, but the thickness of the barrel at the nib seems to be just as thin, if not thinner, than the pentel (I see this as the most likely place for it to break).  

Precision drilling will be required, just as with the pentel, as the step to stop the mechanism protruding at the tip is only about 1/10 of an inch from the nib end of the barrel.  This step is quite a bit smaller than on the real pentel as well, so off-center drilling would significantly affect the assembly.

I thank Don for always looking to find new ways to do things, but I agree with him also that I wouldn't make the OD pencils to sell to anyone.  I may make the three I purchased and give them to family or keep them to jot notes around the house, but I probably won't purchase any more to make.


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## rherrell (Mar 27, 2008)

Thanks for the review Jason.[8D]


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## its_virgil (Mar 31, 2008)

Yes, thanks Jason for the review. You beat me to it. But I have now made #2 and #3. I had a problem with one of them but the other one is fine, as is the first one. I've also finished a photo essay of how I used the step bit several of the IAP members purchased for making the Pentel pencil to make this pencil. It can be found on my website at http://tinyurl.com/2eaxy4  Here is a picture another one of these pencils.





Do a good turn daily!
Don


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## MDWine (Mar 31, 2008)

Excellent writeup, thanks for taking the time !!


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## sbell111 (Mar 31, 2008)

> _Originally posted by its_virgil_
> 
> Yes, thanks Jason for the review. You beat me to it. But I have now made #2 and #3. I had a problem with one of them but the other one is fine, as is the first one. I've also finished a photo essay of how I used the step bit several of the IAP members purchased for making the Pentel pencil to make this pencil. It can be found on my website at http://tinyurl.com/2eaxy4  Here is a picture another one of these pencils.
> 
> ...


Thanks for taking the time to do that.  Those pencils will make excellent gifts.


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## toolcrazy (Mar 31, 2008)

Gotta try this, sounds pretty cool.


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## fritz64 (Mar 31, 2008)

cheaper than pental.  office max brand (a copy of pentil) in mich. about 3.50 to 4.00 cheaper


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## papaturner (Mar 31, 2008)

Thanks ,Don, for the great effort.BTW good job.

Perry


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## its_virgil (Mar 31, 2008)

Thanks to all for the comments. I hope the essay helps. I think the pentel can be made the same way, just omit the steps where the blank is turned around and the small hole is enlarged. I've really have good luck turning the pencils between centers. I did not have such luck when I first started making the pentels. Maybe my turning skills have improved.
Do a good turn daily!
Don


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## Mather323 (Apr 1, 2008)

Nice Job and thanks for the pointers!


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## woody0207 (Apr 29, 2008)

> _Originally posted by fritz64_
> 
> cheaper than pental.  office max brand (a copy of pentil) in mich. about 3.50 to 4.00 cheaper



I was going to post about the office max brand but notice that fritz64 has already posted it. They have the office max versions in Austin (TX) also. 

A bit more information about this version, since I bought one and did a proto build of one using a step bit. The office max brand is available in 0.5, 0.7, and 0.9, just like the Pentel brand. The office max brand retails for $5.99 for two pencils. 

Doing a visual side-by-side compare of the guts of a pentel and the office max brand they are very similar. The things I notice that are different between the two:

1) The threaded mechanical lead end of office max is slighty bigger and has a larger nut. It requires an 11/64 hole to be drilled at the end of the blank instead of the 5/32 on the step drill; really not a problem, just requires a second pass with an 11/64 bit.
2) The spring on the office max brand was not as uniformly wound as the pentel version. I noticed this on two of the pencils I inspected. Maybe I ran into an exception, don't know.
3) The threads on the office max brand are larger than the threads on the pentel. Thus the tips are not interchangable.

Despite the diffences in springs I couldn't detect any usability problems or difference in feel between the two by advancing the lead. I realize this is not a valid durability test, though.

From the outside, I can't tell any difference. 

If you are into making pentel pencils and have an office max close to you and are looking for a cheaper alternative it may be worth checking out. Note that I have no affiliation with either of the companies. Good luck!


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## cbjax (Jan 21, 2009)

Could someone supply a link to by the step drill for the pentel?
Thanks


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## Robert Taylor (Jan 21, 2009)

http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=6502&highlight=pentel

it really isn't needed. depending on how many you wish to make it just adds to the cost and if i'm giving them away, well i can spend the money on other things. i don't get to keep my savings, i just like to spread the wealth. lol $25 for a step drill, $25 for a mandrel. i can spend that $50 on a new gouge, lathe chuck, sandpaper, you get the idea.

i have made several without the step drill by following don's tutorial in the iap library under "articles 2004"


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## Robert Taylor (Jan 21, 2009)

here they are, maple and purpleheart.


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