# CA Finish - Offshoot of Oahunative's Basic Finish



## NCWoodworker (Dec 27, 2006)

Hi all,

_(This is related to Oahunative's thread, but I wasn't sure if it would go in a different direction and I did not want to hijack it. I am new to the board and understand my position here relative to all of the expertise and experience amongst us.  I am interested to hear other's input in the following, or if these general comments have been explored previously...)_

I have become comfortable with building a CA finish on my pens and expect that I am up to par with the outcome.  (I say expect, because, while I am proud of my finish, I have never really seen someone else's pen to compare it to (besides pix on the internet.))  In the other thread, Eagle talks about a good finish being able to 'see' into the soul of the wood.  I believe that he is referring to the ability to bring out the warmth/glow/optical allusion of dimention/depth that is commonly found in highly figured woods (and some others that seem to always have character/chatoyance, such as mesquite.)

In flatwork, I have found that an oil finish really penetrates and brings out these characteristics in woods that I have chosen.  This is enhanced even greater when a topcoat is applied over the oil to create a gloss finish.  With the CA finish, it seems that I am getting the topcoat, but missing the 'depth/soul' brought out by the penetrating oil.  Over the past month, I have added an application of a tung oil/poly mix to all of my turnings between the sanding stage and the first application of CA.  (Would be happy to share brand/name/etc..but not sure if that's appropriate here...)  Personally, I really think this gives me the richness that I have been missing from a standard CA finish.  The product I use suggests an hour before applying a topcoat.  (Note...I have not been waiting and have not noticed any ill-affects.  Perhaps it's b/c of the thin/rubbed application I have used.)  

Anyway, sorry for the long post, but I am curious if anyone else has experience with first using an oil-based penetrating finish first.. and has any positive/neg feedback. (I understand that this is usually prohibitive due to the long cure time, but believe that is not an issue here)  If that is a viable option, I would expect that you would get the same benefit, regardless of the topcoat you use (CA or Lacquer).  Finally, does anyone use poly as a topcoat?  My experience with flatwork would suggest it to be a good (easy to apply/durable/etc.) option.

Regards,
Chris


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## jeffj13 (Dec 27, 2006)

Chris,

I typically finish my pens with lacquer instead of CA, but more often than not, I use BLO first to enhance the grain in the wood.  I wipe a thin coat on with my finger while the pen is on the lathe, let it sit for a minute or two and then wipe it off.  I let the pen dry for a day or two before I apply the lacquer.

jeff


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## ctEaglesc (Dec 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by jeffj13_
> <br />Chris,
> 
> I typically finish my pens with lacquer instead of CA, but more often than not, I use BLO first to enhance the grain in the wood.  I wipe a thin coat on with my finger while the pen is on the lathe, let it sit for a minute or two and then wipe it off.  I let the pen dry for a day or two before I apply the lacquer.
> ...


"Heat" the BLO in as you would a friction finish, let it cool and then apply the lacquer.
No need to wait a day or so.


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## bradh (Dec 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by NCWoodworker_
> <br />
> 
> Anyway, sorry for the long post, but I am curious if anyone else has experience with first using an oil-based penetrating finish first..



  Whqat you are describing is the BLO/CA finish. Russ Fairfield recently posted a video here showing it.
Brad Harding


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## cd18524 (Dec 27, 2006)

I thought Russ' finish used the BLO right after the CA.  Almost like an accelerator for the CA.  I could very easily be wrong.

Chris


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## NCWoodworker (Dec 27, 2006)

Yah, that's what I was thinking...that the BLO was used after the CA was applied as an accellerator.  

Eagle...does the heating simply help the BLO cure faster or does it enhance the finish, also?

Also...still interested in thoughts on using poly as a topcoat...

Thanks all for responding!
Chris


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## DCBluesman (Dec 27, 2006)

> Would be happy to share brand/name/etc..but not sure if that's appropriate here.



We share brand names and sources all the time.  Fire away!


> Personally, I really think this gives me the richness that I have been missing from a standard CA finish.



Finishes are extremely personal.  If you and the recipient's like it, use it.


> The product I use suggests an hour before applying a topcoat. (Note...I have not been waiting and have not noticed any ill-affects. Perhaps it's b/c of the thin/rubbed application I have used.)



If you are putting CA over a finish before it is cured, you may find that your pens develop dull spots or cloudiness.  If this happens, you might want to rethink how quickly you apply the CA.

This finish is really more akin to Don Ward's method of applying CA/BLO.  He has an article in the library.


> still interested in thoughts on using poly as a topcoat



My experience with polyurethane is that it leaves a muddier view than CA or lacquer.  I'm sure others feel differently.


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## ctEaglesc (Dec 27, 2006)

You can cut corners(Time) with CA.
You cannot beat a lacquer finish.
When was the last time you saw a Steinway with a CA finish?


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## bradh (Dec 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by cd18524_
> <br />I thought Russ' finish used the BLO right after the CA.  Almost like an accelerator for the CA.  I could very easily be wrong.
> 
> Chris



I am going to have to go back and check the video, but I believe he also started with a BLO coating on the wood.
  Either way I use this method; start with BLO to pop the grain then follow with CA/BLO layers.
Brad


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## NCWoodworker (Dec 27, 2006)

Lou,
Thanks for weighing in.  I have reason to believe your opinion on finishing is to be respected.  [8D]

_If you are putting CA over a finish before it is cured, you may find that your pens develop dull spots or cloudiness. If this happens, you might want to rethink how quickly you apply the CA.
_
Will I see this immediately or over time?  In the current process, I have not noticed this...I'll take a closer look.  Unfortuanately, for me, I have not been at this long enough to know the long term 'wear/affects'. 

_We share brand names and sources all the time. Fire away! _
GF Seal-A-Cell

_This finish is really more akin to Don Ward's method of applying CA/BLO. He has an article in the library._
Thanks!  I'll look through it...

_My experience with polyurethane is that it leaves a muddier view than CA or lacquer. I'm sure others feel differently.
_
Interesting...I am happy with the CA as a topcoat...just curious why others don't use poly as I would expect the learning curve to be much easier to to climb....either that or I just made learning CA harder than it needed to be []

Cheers,
Chris


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## NCWoodworker (Dec 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by ctEaglesc_
> <br />You can cut corners(Time) with CA.
> You cannot beat a lacquer finish.
> When was the last time you saw a Steinway with a CA finish?



As in the piano?  Seems that would be about impossible to acheive given it's size and weight.  I would expect the mandrel would get out of round...but then...think of the marketing possibilities for the super glue corporation []


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## vick (Dec 27, 2006)

Personally if I am going to use a CA finish and want to use BLO first I will apply the BLO let it soak for a couple minutes wipe off and heat it and Eagle describes and then seal it with two coats of dewaxed shellac before applying the ca.


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## ctEaglesc (Dec 27, 2006)

Lest anyone misunderstand my comment about cutting corner and time.
After reading Russes articles on finishing <b>ANYTHING</b> and doing some flatwork, A good finish takes time.A great finish takes MORE TIME.
Will I put multiple coats of lacquer on a single wood slimline?
Maybe but I doubt it.
When I did Pentarsia I must have put 12 coats over a period of 3 or 4 days micromeshing between coats.
With all the CA finishes I have put on pens up to that time I never understood what a great finish was.
With Pentarsia I had seen it for the first time of any pen I had done.
I have done flatwork similarly.The first coats of the finish seal the grain and at some point you are building up the finish.Each successive coat"bends" and refracts the light that passes through it allowing you to see what I call the solid of the wood.
A CA finish does not do that.
If done properly each coat fuses with the layer under it making it one big thick finish.
NO bending of light, no refraction no "Soul" of the wood.
CA is just about optically clear,if you don't believe me take to scratched pieces of plexiglass and glue them together with thick CA.
You will have what appears to be one thick piece of plexiglass.
I have a number of pens in my album that prove this.
People like bright shiny things. That is what a good CA finish will provide.
Not all people appreciate a layered lacquer finish.
Those that do will appreciate it and pay for it.


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## GregMuller (Dec 27, 2006)

Ok Eagle. Lacquer is the finish to use. Heres the question. Without haveing spray equipment what is the next best application method. Spray from the can? Dipping? Brushing on?. On the lathe or off the lathe?


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## DCBluesman (Dec 27, 2006)

I'm not Eagle, but the definitive answer to your questions is YES.  Lacquer can be applied from a spray can or a spray gun.  It can also be applied by hand with a cloth.  It can be dipped or brushed.  You can do any of the above on or off the lathe.  The realy trick here is to experiment until you get a finish that works for you.  If you want to try each method without potentially sacrificing a pen, divide a section of hardwood dowel into 4-5 (or more) areas and finish each one differenty.


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## ctEaglesc (Dec 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by GregMuller_
> <br />Ok Eagle. Lacquer is the finish to use. Heres the question. Without haveing spray equipment what is the next best application method. Spray from the can? Dipping? Brushing on?. On the lathe or off the lathe?


Pentarsia was done with Deft rattle can on the lathe.
Some spray into a container and wipe it on.
If you want a big glob of plastic dip it.(defeats the purpose of multiple layers.)I wound up with pits, there is a learning curve I felt not worthwhile for the results.I figured if I wa going to dip it I may as well apply a lot of CA skew and polish, same end result.
LOu brushes a Japanese lacquer with a stick, (Really)
If you have a compressor an air brush from HF goes for $5.00 on sale, I switched to that because of the cost of the Deft Rattle cans.
You may want to look at Russes site and his comments about LAcquer. That's where I picked up most of my info.
When Russ speaks, EVERYBODY listens.
_(Lou, no fair, you can type faster)_


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## Mikey (Dec 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by ctEaglesc_
> <br />You can cut corners(Time) with CA.
> You cannot beat a lacquer finish. That's only an opinion that cannot be proven true unless you are willing to wait a few hundred years to see what would happen with a different finish applied to the same product
> When was the last time you saw a Steinway with a CA finish? I also don't know when I've ever seen a piano finished with a spray can of Deft.[?]


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## ctEaglesc (Dec 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Mikey_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...



HOw the material (lacquer) is "housed" makes no difference.
As far as not beating a lacquer finish.
I beg to differ.
I have done CA CA/blo,Krystal coat, Mylands three step, Straight carnauba over shellac, shellac.
The clarity plus depth of a lacquer finish surpasses all others.
Granted a CA  finish may last longer but appearance is a consideration and the most important consideration for me.
If you want a pen that looks like it was dipped in plastice a CA finish is great.
If you want a finish that would equate that of a fine piece of furniture lacquer is good choice.
If you want a shiny fishing lure appearnce then go with CA.
I do use CA on some pens but not on ones that I have put a lot of time into.


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## bnoles (Dec 27, 2006)

While the rest of y'all hash this thing out, I just want to go on record as a lacquer fan and it's all Lou's fault []

After picking his brain a few weeks ago and he being so kind to help me finish a very special pen for my wife in a lacquer process, I can attest to the higher quality appearance.  I am sold on the lacquer finish as my first choice for all future "pens of importance".  I do hope to continue to experiment with other finishes and methods as time goes by, but I doubt anything will compare to the lacquer I was able to achieve.


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