# Who Really Makes Our Pen Kits???



## Randy_ (May 5, 2008)

Ever wonder about that??  There are posts, regularly, on IAP with comments as to the sources of our various pen/pencil/etc kits; but it doesn't seem that anyone really knows for, sure, what is going on and those that might, aren't talking.  The two names that get tossed around regularly are Dayacom.....a Chinese company.....that is regularly linked with CSUSA and Rizheng.....another Chinese company.....that is commonly suggested to be the maker of the PSI kits.  Additionally, I have seen references to a kit maker located in Taiwan; but don't recall if it has been linked to one of our US importers.   

On top of that, I don't recall ever seeing any reference to the source of the kits that Berea sells.  Years ago, I remember seeing language in their catalogs that they had their "own" manufacturing facilities; but don't see that language in the current catalog.  I am wondering if Berea really does own a facility in the Far East or is just an importer like CSUSA, PSI and others.

It might be interesting to hear what others know or think they know about this situation.  A lot of what will be posted will probably be somewhat speculative; but it should be interesting to see what turns up.  

Nothing ventured, nothing gained!![^]


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## Rudy Vey (May 5, 2008)

Randy, a bit of research would have shown you that Dayacom is a Taiwanese company:
http://www.dayacom.com.tw/

Rizheng is Chinese, Peoples Republic of China.

I believe that there are quality differences between the two.

Berea had some years ago their Taiwanese manufacturing address on their instruction sheet. I was told by the owner that they have or had their own production in Taiwan.


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## arioux (May 5, 2008)

Randy,

For what i've seen in time, Dayacom is from Taiwan, and makes or distribure kits to CSUSA and some PSI kit.  As a fact, many of PSI  are marked Dyacom. Most of the Dyacom kits i have made are good quality.
Rizheng is a Chinese company and from what i have saw and tested myself (200 kits), their kits are on the lower end of the scale.  I I tend to associate them with the new PSI funline and CSUSA artisant line, an attemp from both of them to grap the low price market.
Few resellers on Ebay also distrinute Rizheng kits.  One of our good reseller lately tryied Rizheng line and drop them.
Berea seems to have their hown line, at leat packaging does not have anything in common with Dayacom ot Rizheng, except for very few models that they state on their site that they did not design.

This is what i know about the manufacturer and it is from my how experience.  Other may and will differ.

Alfred


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## wdcav1952 (May 5, 2008)

Odd, I thought they were made by the Keebler elves. [:I]


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## Randy_ (May 5, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Rudy Vey_
> 
> Randy, a bit of research would have shown you that Dayacom is a Taiwanese company.....



Actually, Rudy, I spent the better part of an hour on the Internet and Google trying to find out about Dayacom and only found a reference to a company in Shanghai.  Perhaps if I had searched "Dayacom Industrial" I might have had better luck; but everyone on IAP simply refers to them as Dayacom so I didn't know to search under the other name.  

I usually do my homework before posting on IAP and didn't have any luck this time so I decided to start this thread.  I don't much appreciate your implication that I didn't do any research; but do thank you for supplying some information I couldn't find through my own efforts.


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## Rudy Vey (May 5, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Randy__
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Not sure how you do your research, but if you use google (this is a search engine), you just type in "dayacom pen kits" and it will lead you to them. Also, in the past, I would say some 4-6 month back there was a discussion here on IAP that dealt with the Dayacom topic and there was even an interest group formed for a possible group buy directly from them.


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## Mudder (May 5, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Randy__
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FWIW,

I just did a google search on dayacom and the first hits were from a company in Tiawan


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## Chasper (May 5, 2008)

Randy,
In my day job I have a buying staff in Hong Kong.  Last year I asked them to find sources of pen kits.  The only two sources they were able to provide were Dayacom and Rizheng.  I was skeptical of that response, usually in China the name brand supplier is the marketing agent, or final assembler/packager for components that they acquire from an ever changing list of low bidding sources.  

I've always had concerns about working conditions of the people making products for me. For the types of merchandise I normally import it has been very difficult to find the actual manufacturer of all of the components.  When I pushed my buyers to find the real sources of the pen kits, they still didn't find anybody else; but I'm still skeptical. I still suspect there are dozens of smaller suppliers involved further up the supply chain.


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## Rifleman1776 (May 5, 2008)

This is only a matter of curiosity. Unless one is trying a start-up with the intention of competing with CS or Berea, the information would be pretty useless. I don't believe saying this company produces better products than the other could be accurate when dealing with Chinese sources. One company may produce several lines with various quality standards. Chasper is closer to what is happening there than the rest of us and still hasn't solved the mystery. We all want better prices but, I believe, we are stuck with what we have for suppliers.


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## Randy_ (May 5, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Rifleman1776_
> 
> This is only a matter of curiosity. Unless one is trying a start-up with the intention of competing with CS or Berea, the information would be pretty useless.....



Frank:  I'm certainly not planning on starting a new kit importation company.  The reason I got interested is as follows.  When PSI came out with the Gatsby, I wondered if it was the same kit as Berea's Sierra or whether it was a clone made by another company.  Later on, it really surprised me when PSI came out with a click version of the kit when Berea didn't have one.  Turned out I was wrong about that part of the situation.....Berea did have a click Sierra, I just missed it.  

Any way, as an example, the Berea TiGold Sierra kit(from AS) sells for $16 whereas the PSI Gatsby sells for only $9.  If it turns out the kits are made by the same manufacturer and are identical, then the choice of supplier is clear.  OTOH, if the two kits are made by different manufacturers and are not identical, then the buyer is left with a decision about which kit is the better value.


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## wood-of-1kind (May 5, 2008)

What I've been told by a 'good source' is that there is NOT a nice big building (factory) that makes pen kits whether it be for DAYCOM or others. There is 'someone' that has components made by various manufacturers(?) and platers and they merely sub-contract the work out to put them in small polybags and finally group the various kit(s) together. Last year I had my Asian partner visit Rhiezing and there was no manufacturing facilty at their stated address but it was more like an office compound. This is the story that I've been told and I'm comfortable with this version. You are subject to believe otherwise.


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## Randy_ (May 5, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Mudder_
> 
> FWIW,
> 
> I just did a google search on dayacom and the first hits were from a company in Tiawan.....



Not worth a thing, Scott.  I didn't bother to give a full explanation in my first post; but after searching for quite a while on the MSN search engine I switched to Google for a quick check; but my ISP shut me down and I was not able to complete the Google search.

But thanks for the information.  Looks like my instinct to check with Google was correct and BTW, the hits appear to be for a company in Taiwan.


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## Rifleman1776 (May 5, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Randy__
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I can understand that. But, one of the first things I learned when I got caught up in this pen thing is that the major U.S. suppliers keep us off balance as a marketing gimmick. And they do it well. The kits, names and appearances are confusing. My volume is not large enough to make it worth my while to bother trying to unravel the mystery. For some, I'm sure it may make a difference.


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## Russianwolf (May 5, 2008)

As a side note, I was just on Dayacom's site and they now have a link to CSUSA and it looks like all of the "exclusive" kits for them are gone.


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## curlyjoe (May 5, 2008)

I called Berea this morning. Joe stated they do not sell nor buy from Dayacom or from China. They have a manufacturer in Taiwan  that makes their kits.


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## Chasper (May 5, 2008)

After being heavily involved in importing from Asia for several years, I've gotten to the point where I have my guys there check for almost anything I'm about to spend a good amount of money on.  Sometimes I can find products for great prices, sometimes it leads nowhere.  

Instead of spending $5-10K a year for pen kits and supplies from domestic sources who are importing them, I thought I might be able to buy them direct for 20-25% of that amount.  No luck so far, and it doesn't look promising.  

I have absolutely no interest in getting into the pen kit selling business.  You guys are way too picky about micro quality details, quick shipping, and lowest prices.  Not that those things are not imporatant when you are buying components to manufacture high quality merchandise for resale.  But the first time somebody caught me on a bad day with a complaint about a micro flaw in the plating, I'd probably tell them where to put that pen.  Then I would be widly and accurately viewed as a grouchy supplier with a nasty attituce.  I just wanted to buy kits for at least 75% less than the suppliers usually sell them, then buy twice as many as I need so I can throw away the defective kits and not feel bad about the kits I damage. 

So far that hasn't worked out and I'm growing increasingly convinced that we are getting pretty good deals and service from our available domestic distributors.


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## Rifleman1776 (May 5, 2008)

Chasper, even though I laughed at your candor, I do appreciate such honesty. Fortunately, you understand that those (well...a few) here are arteests and finicky beyond description. I do believe that, at the prices the retailers charge, we customers have a right to be fussy.


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## Mudder (May 5, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Randy__
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Randy,

It looks like you cannot keep your facts straight. A few minutes after 8:00 you posted this:



> _Originally posted by Randy__
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After Rudy pointed out your mistake you sarcastically went on to tell us how well you do your "homework":



> _Originally posted by Randy__
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And when I posted proof of a google search you conveniently change your story:



> _Originally posted by Randy__
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Perhaps if you would have told Rudy in the beginning that your google search had been shut down things would have gone differently.

BTW: I did a yahoo search and it showed up on the first page. Being that Yahoo and Google are most likely the two most well known search engines they would have been my first choice.



Have a nice day


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## DocStram (May 5, 2008)

<center>How about them Pirates!!!  </center>


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## jcollazo (May 5, 2008)

The company that Berea uses is GE-Products in Taiwan. Last October I contacted them about their pen kits and boxes. The reply I got was from them was this:

_Dear Joe,

Our office in Taiwan forwarded your request for information to us. We would be happy to talk with you about any of your needs. Please feel free to contact me at anytime.

Jim
James J. Heusinger, President
The Berea Hardwoods Co. Inc._

I just went to the GE website and by using Google Translate all I could figure out was that they're updating the website. Also, I can't tell if GE or Taiwan Giftware ( http://www.taiwangiftware.com ) is the parent company or ...???

It's not real difficult finding the players. It's having the money to order the minimum quantities. The minimums range from 500 to 2000 units per kit, per plating. Also, if the kit is an "exclusive" like the Statesman, we may not be able to purchase directly. Even this has a workaround but it requires more time and money. Face it, unless someone is able to invest $50K to $150K in a project like this, very little will happen.

I've been happy purchasing my basic quantity needs from Rizheng and using the savings to go for the higher end kits at CSUSA, Berea, etc.


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## SuperDave (May 5, 2008)

> _Originally posted by DocStram_
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> 
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> <center>How about them Pirates!!!  </center>



Would that be the Taiwan Pirates or the Hong Kong Pirates? 

I think the Taiwan Pirates are a better ball club but then the Hong Kong Pirates have better uni's. From what I have been able to find out, the Taiwan team is actually a farm team for the Hong Kong Pirates, or the Asian Little League, but I cannot confirm that for certain.

Who cares, they are all Pirates.[}]


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## Rifleman1776 (May 5, 2008)

Recent television news and documentary shows talking about the manufacturing boom in China (including Taiwan and Hong Cong) pointed out that much of the 'manufacturing' is done by cottage industries. Meaning that a family can earn money doing one small part of a larger process. Financially, this has been a boon for both the families and factories. Downside is that there are no safety or environmental controls. Some predict an environmental disaster down the road with chemicals being dumped indiscriminately. This may be why no single pen kit factory has been found. The work may be done at a score of huts out in the countryside then simply packed and shipped from a central office. Who knows?


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## Jarheaded (May 5, 2008)

All I can say after reading this is.......I am going out to get some Chinese food for dinner....or is it Taiwanese food? It has me confused now.


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## wdcav1952 (May 5, 2008)

I still vote for the Keebler Elves!!!


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## Rudy Vey (May 5, 2008)

Today I called Berea and spoke with Jim Heusinger. Berea is not using pen kits made by either Dayacom or Rizheng! They have their own production and suppliers in Taiwan. Although some pens look alike and also have the same name at the Dayacom site (like Sierra or Convertible) these kits are not Berea. The names are not protected, so if you make a pen kit that looks like a Sierra (and uses the same size tubes, bushings, drill bits) I guess you can name it Sierra. Jim mentioned that the price difference we see on some very similar pen kits comes from the quality of the plating. He stressed that for example Black Titanium is very expensive and, therefore, the cost is different as well. Some "other" black colored Titanium coatings are not even near the Berea quality, they are more like "gunmetal".


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## BruceK (May 5, 2008)

So while Berea is not using kits made by Dayacom since they have their own production and suppliers, is it possible that Dayacom is using some of the same suppliers that Berea has? [?]  Oooh this all makes my head hurt!


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## arioux (May 5, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Russianwolf_
> 
> As a side note, I was just on Dayacom's site and they now have a link to CSUSA and it looks like all of the "exclusive" kits for them are gone.



Hi,

The link says for "retailer" visit CSUSA and i went thru the site and all CSUSA high end kits are still there.

Alfred


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## wdcav1952 (May 5, 2008)

Al, since  you are all smart and all, can you help me to understand the point of this thread??[8][?]


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## arioux (May 5, 2008)

Make the promotion of the Keebler Elves!!!

Alfred


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## Russianwolf (May 5, 2008)

> _Originally posted by arioux_
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The first time I looked at Dayacom's site several months ago (before the start of the Elegant Beauty Thread), The Dayacom site had several kits that looked identical to the upper end CSUSA kits but with differing names. I don't see them on the site any longer and now there is a link to CSUSA on the site, which I don't recall before.

My thinking is that CSUSA got wind of the kits being on the site and told them to remove them since they had an exclusive deal on those kits.

Yes the kits are available through CSUSA, but the kits were on Dayacom's site before and now they aren't. The Imperial is one that I distinctly recall seeing.


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## arioux (May 5, 2008)

Hi,

The Imperial is now called the Bamboo on Dayacom site.
Funny thing, the imperial description on CSUSA site start with :
"Bamboo</u> leaf carvings found on the Imperial " [)]

I think they put the link to CSUSA because they where receiveing too much inquiry for small quantity wich they don't want to deal with and send them back to their main retailer.

Alfred


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## johnnycnc (May 5, 2008)

Mike,is this it?;
http://www.dayacom.com.tw/product_02.php?product_id=90&class_item_id=6

There is a tab on their main page,high end pen kits.


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## Russianwolf (May 5, 2008)

Okay, I'll go hide in a corner for a while. (Howd I miss that tab?)[B)]

But my memory is still working, they used to be mixed in with the other kits, and that link wasn't there.


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## arioux (May 5, 2008)

Don't worry Mike, it was probably CAV Keebler Elves that played around with it

Alfred


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## jcollazo (May 5, 2008)

If I could chime in.... there is no point to this thread. It seems Randy was just pondering who are (is) the grand wazoos of pen kit manufacturing. Even if this elusive creature were to be found, what would it mean? Would we do a group buy direct from them for what? 500-600 kits? We've had several threads regarding this issue in the past year. Unless we (IAP Members Inc.) are willing fork over the BIG bucks, deal with the legalities, quality control, R&D, and everything else that goes into bringing a product out at a good price, it's best to deal with who we have now. Aaron has been introducing some new kits and the group buys are a great way to save money.
I've tried, in my way, to look for the best prices and kits from overseas and I just can't put out that much money and time.


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## airrat (May 5, 2008)

Hey Cav can your Elves go 3 rounds with the pirates?   Lets start a internet office pool and get it going.


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## thetalbott4 (May 6, 2008)

I dont know that there was ever a real purpose to this thread other than curiosity. I have wondered the same thing - where do the kits come from, given that so many are alike, but have different names and prices. I guess this is how the cat got killed.


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## wdcav1952 (May 6, 2008)

> _Originally posted by thetalbott4_
> 
> I dont know that there was ever a real purpose to this thread other than curiosity. I have wondered the same thing - where do the kits come from, given that so many are alike, but have different names and prices. I guess this is how the cat got killed.



Hey, stop with the cat hating!!   I'm going to report you to PETA as soon as I finish my bacon sandwich, put on my leather shoes and hang up my fur coat!!! [}]


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## arioux (May 6, 2008)

And turn a snake skin pen!!!.

As for the use of this thread, this is casual conversation, off-topics and gerneral chat wich i think we are doing rignt now, plus a little humour with CAV.  Beside, i think that interesting information for some (mabe not for others but we are not at the same level) can emerge from those thread.

Alfred


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## Mudder (May 6, 2008)

> _Originally posted by DocStram_
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> 
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> <center>How about them Pirates!!!  </center>



As of this morning Al, the Pirates are in bad shape. 12 wins, 19 losses, 8 games behind. []


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## PrivatePens (May 6, 2008)

My 2 cents -- and with the value of the dollar - that should be worth about .0001 --- 

Johnny has the CNC machine.  He can make parts for all of us!!!


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## Randy_ (May 6, 2008)

Some of you folks give me way too much credit and other not nearly enough.

The primary point of my starting this thread was money.  But curiosity was a factor as well as the hope that some of the confusion and misinformation floating around in the pencrafting community might be resolved.

The main impetus for starting this thread was the simple question on my part of whether the Gatsby pen kit at $9.00 from PSI was a better choice that the similarly plated Sierra from AS for $16.00.  if both kits were made by the same company, chances are the cheaper kit would be the better deal.  If the kits were made by different companies, the possibility of that quality differences existed that might justify the price differential.  And that is exactly what was pointed out in Rudy's post below.



> _Originally posted by Rudy Vey_
> .....Jim mentioned that the price difference we see on some very similar pen kits comes from the quality of the plating.....



From my original post:



> _Originally posted by Randy__
> .....It might be interesting to hear what others know or think they know about this situation. A lot of what will be posted will probably be somewhat speculative; but it should be interesting to see what turns up......



Prophetic.......there certainly has been a lot of interesting and useful information posted and the details of who manufactures what has certainly been clarified.  Thanks.


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## Rojo22 (May 7, 2008)

I have learned a bunch from this thread.  I now know that the Keebler elves, originally from Pittsburgh have moved to either Taiwan, or China and are manufacturing pen kits in small cottages...Its a small world after all.....


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## TellicoTurning (May 7, 2008)

In my previous life, I did regular exports to various Chinese companies.. fortunately, I was dealing with my local customer, a Chinese national who had become an American citizen, but still traveled to China regularly to handle his business... even he had trouble sometimes knowing exactly who he was dealing with... one of his favorite express was " F------ Chinese, it's like a Chinese fire drill over there."

So much of the export and import business is under government sactions and entities, we probably will never know who actually sits at a machine and manufactures a particular part.  Business names often tended to be two lines long.


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## DocStram (May 7, 2008)

> _Originally posted by wdcav1952_
> 
> Al, since  you are all smart and all, can you help me to understand the point of this thread??[8][?]



William, my friend, some of our best threads are the ones with no point.


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## DocStram (May 7, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Mudder_
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Mudder .... it's the usual sad state of affairs for the Bucs.  [V]


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## Randy_ (May 7, 2008)

> _Originally posted by wdcav1952_
> 
> Al, since  you are all smart and all, can you help me to understand the point of this thread??[8][?]



Hey "Cav", you are one of the masters of pointless posts here at IAP.  Hardly seems like you should need any help from Al in understanding the concept


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## wdcav1952 (May 7, 2008)

LOL,

Actually, Randy, I consider you far out of my league when it comes to pointless posts!


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## GaryMGg (May 8, 2008)

Y'all are wayyyyy off point; the real question should be "Who's making the polybags?!?!?" That's the guy making all the real money  [)][][]


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## jcollazo (May 8, 2008)

> _Originally posted by GaryMGg_
> 
> Y'all are wayyyyy off point; the real question should be "Who's making the polybags?!?!?" That's the guy making all the real money  [)][][]



Probably the same guy who makes all those oil barrels the Arabs sell


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## Mudder (May 8, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Randy__
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> 
> 
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> _Originally posted by wdcav1952_
> 
> LOL,
> 
> Actually, Randy, I consider you far out of my league when it comes to pointless posts!




Is there a point to all of this or are we just padding our post counts? [:0]


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## alamocdc (May 8, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Mudder_
> Is there a point to all of this or are we just padding our post counts? [:0]



They're trying to catch me.[}]


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## Turning Around (Oct 28, 2021)

Randy_ said:


> Ever wonder about that??  There are posts, regularly, on IAP with comments as to the sources of our various pen/pencil/etc kits; but it doesn't seem that anyone really knows for, sure, what is going on and those that might, aren't talking.  The two names that get tossed around regularly are Dayacom.....a Chinese company.....that is regularly linked with CSUSA and Rizheng.....another Chinese company.....that is commonly suggested to be the maker of the PSI kits.  Additionally, I have seen references to a kit maker located in Taiwan; but don't recall if it has been linked to one of our US importers.
> 
> On top of that, I don't recall ever seeing any reference to the source of the kits that Berea sells.  Years ago, I remember seeing language in their catalogs that they had their "own" manufacturing facilities; but don't see that language in the current catalog.  I am wondering if Berea really does own a facility in the Far East or is just an importer like CSUSA, PSI and others.
> 
> ...


I’m late to this thread but very interested in the topic so please bear with me.
As a UK member I do my best to avoid buying anything made in China. Quality is poor and politically their human rights record is appalling . We pen turning enthusiasts should do our best to encourage manufacture to a high standard in the USA and Europe. If we make a big enough noise someone will eventually take note.


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## penicillin (Oct 28, 2021)

Since this thread was resurrected, I want to add a comment. I buy pen kits at the local Rockler to save on shipping. It is my belief that the pen kits sold by Rockler come from multiple sources.

Here is one example:
Rockler sells various "Manhattan" and "Gatsby" pen kits. They look nearly identical in appearance, but their twist mechanisms are different, and Rockler sells spare pen tubes for each pen kit as separate items:
https://www.rockler.com/manhattan-pen-tubes-5-pack
https://www.rockler.com/replacement-tubes-for-gatsby-pen-kits-2-pack

At the time, the Manhattan tubes were far less expensive than their current price and the individual tube price was lower, so I bought the five-pack of Manhattan tubes expecting to use them on both Manhattan and Gatsby kits in case of a blow-up or other pre-assembly failure. 

The pen tubes for the two kits appear to be identical, and I didn't worry about mixing them up. In actual fact, they are extremely close, but not quite the same, which I discovered on pen assembly. When I assembled a Gatsby pen with a Manhattan tube, everything was fine, except that the pen kit parts were loose enough that I could press them in with my hands. A couple drops of CA fixed that pen, but I learned a valuable lesson. It is my belief that the Manhattan and Gatsby pen kits sold by Rockler come from two different factories.


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## jttheclockman (Oct 28, 2021)

I should say resurrected. 13 years ago. So much has changed. Would be better to start a new thread if interested. There also have been threads on this topic since this one. Many new players as vendors but where they get them may be hard to find.


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## maxwell_smart007 (Oct 28, 2021)

Wow, blast from the past - lots of names I haven't seen in a long time!  That being said, given that it's been a decade-and-a-half since the last post, I'm going to lock this thread.  Please feel free to start a new one!


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