# Good Deal?



## scotti158 (Oct 24, 2009)

Hi everyone, I just purchased a Black Walnut log, about 36" diameter and 21 feet long for $400 and another $200 to have it moved to my place. I also got four 20" diameter logs 4-5 feet long and a bunch of firewood with it. Good deal? I'll have a portable sawmill come next summer to saw it into lumber.


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## stolicky (Oct 24, 2009)

Now, that is a lot of pens!

I keep telling everyone that I have no idea what I would do if I ever come across a huge black walnut tree like that.  It is one of favorite woods.


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## wdcav1952 (Oct 24, 2009)

Some bowl blanks wouldn't be a bad idea either.  Selling some here might help you to recoup some of your money.


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## Robert A. (Oct 24, 2009)

Mount it up and turn the whole thing.


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## StatProf (Oct 24, 2009)

*Wood gloat.*

Not meaning to gloat . . . but I got a 52" diameter pecan tree for FREE! It's good to know some arborists! Also got a 44" red oak the same way.

My wife saw them and said, "MMMMMMM! Cabinets!"

Guess I know what I am doing in 2 years when it is dry. The oak yielded 9 pieces of 8/4 at 29" wide and 10'6" long, plus a whole bunch of 4/4.

Kyle


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## LandfillLumber (Oct 25, 2009)

Its a nice butt log,but $400 is more then I would pay with the terrible lumber market.Looks like it would veneer nice and if so $400 is not bad at all,but to turn it into turning stock seems to me to be a waste of a nice saw log.The upper part looks nice like some old limbs,and you should get some nice interesting grain from that.Nice grab StatProf many free logs to be had just need to know someone or be in the right spot at the right time,Oh and no such thing as free logs(they a lot of work to deal with).I want to see some milling photos of this log if would like to share.Victor


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## robutacion (Oct 25, 2009)

scotti158 said:


> Hi everyone, I just purchased a Black Walnut log, about 36" diameter and 21 feet long for $400 and another $200 to have it moved to my place. I also got four 20" diameter logs 4-5 feet long and a bunch of firewood with it. Good deal? I'll have a portable sawmill come next summer to saw it into lumber.



Hi scotti,

I reckon you done very well,  I don't know how the timber industry is where you are, but if I was closer, I would be paying you $1,000 plus the $200 to get that timber landed at my storage paddock.  I would be cutting that big log into 3 pieces and then slabbed in 4" and 2".  For what you said, you've got enough timber on the 2 main logs to get all the turning stock you ever need, either for yourself or for selling.  Don't under-estimate the smaller timbers mainly for pens and other small stuff, sometimes they produce the best grains and colours.

I sell my timbers quite cheap but, all that timber that you are buying for $600 total, in my hands, I would make it worth 10 times that, with some work and some time!

Good luck with it...!

Cheers
George


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## workinforwood (Oct 25, 2009)

That is way more than I'd ever pay for a log.  That log is going to be garbage if you wait a year to cut it up.  You have to get that to a mill or a mill to  you soon as possible.  I can purchase wet sawn black walnut lumber right this minute for $1 a bf, or pay 50 cent more for it to be kiln dried.  How much is the woodmizer going to charge to cut it up.  Usually they charge by the foot.  How many bf are in that log in the first place? Remember you lose a lot of wood because it is round, you have flitch to remove, and then you have the pith to remove.  You have to pay that saw to remove the crap with the good..he can't get at the good without removing the bad.  I don't know the rates in your area..lets just say it's 50 cents a foot.  Check out this website http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Measuring_Logs_and_Lumber.html
If you where to do the math off this website and lets pretend that you end up with 100% usable lumber from end to end..and we know that's a faery tale.  My guess on the numbers you gave me using the faery tale 100% use rate on that one big log is 650 bf of lumber.  Now you paid $600 for it including delivery..now you stand at what 95 cents a foot or so?  But you have to have a guy cut it.  If there is 650 bf of lumber plus the scraping that has to be done, you may be paying 50 cents for 800 bf of cuts.  That's $400 to cut the log.  So now you have $1000 into the wood. 650 is completely unreasonable, there will be checking, bad spots, possible voids in the log..500 is a far more reasonable number when it's all said and done, so now you are at a cost of $2/bf and you had to sticker stack all that lumber and wait at least a year, then bring it inside, acclimate it.  If you search hard, you will find walnut already cut and not just dry but kiln dry for under $2 a foot in your area...heck you are in NY state!  They have tons of lumbering in NY.  So in the end...my theory says maybe you'll come close to break even, probably not, especially not if you calculate your time and effort in the lumbering process.  But..it's a lesson learned.  If you don't cut that log till next year..well all the money is good as gone.  The heart will build pressure and the log will basically implode from the center out.  Sealing the ends buys you a bit of time, but not a year, not for an actual log, and especially not a log that big.  You'll just have a 21' long outdoor bench.


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## YoYoSpin (Oct 25, 2009)

If you do let those logs sit for more than a week, be sure to Anchorseal the ends to avoid spliting and checking. But if it were up to me, I'd go buy a good chainsaw and get to work on cutting them up right now.


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## greenmtnguy (Oct 25, 2009)

Using the international log scale which uses 1/4" saw kerf, the main log will give you 410 bf per 10' log for 820 BF which calculates waste into the equation. In  Vermont where we do not have a lot of Walnut, I sold a 2" thick, 3' wide by 8' long for $500. Cut it thick, and the next user can resaw. A 20" by 6' log will give you 100 BF. This is using 1/4" saw kerf which band mills have 1/8" wasting less wood. Walnut will hold alright in log form for a year easy enough in Vermont's climate. I have some limb wood from the original tree after 3 years with fungus growing from it with very little quality loss. Bowl blanks sound like a good idea. You will have a lot of scrap you can get pen blanks out of, if you take the time. With a good sawyer, sawing for grade, you can get some fine stock out of that tree. You can find an International log scale online, and figure out what you are getting out of the tree, depending on how you cut it up. Have fun.


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## ZanderPommo (Oct 25, 2009)

id just burrow my buddie's chainsaw and segment that thing right up, then seal the pieces


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## MesquiteMan (Oct 25, 2009)

I have to completely disagree with Jeff on most of his assessment. Sorry, Jeff. No disrespect intended. I have just been sawing lumber on my own mill for 8 or 9 years and have sawn my share of walnut.

There is approximately 1,300 BF of usable lumber in that log based on the international scale and the measurements you gave (http://www.woodweb.com/cgi-bin/calculators/calc.pl?calculator=log_volume). If you saw it with a bandmill, your yield will be even higher. Not sure what it costs to have it milled in your area but I own a Timberking 1220 and charge $.25/bf. That would put your finished green lumber at about $.71 BF, not including any kiln drying. You can very easily air dry Walnut and I actually prefer air dried over kiln dried.

I agree with the others that it would be much better to have the log milled now rather than later but it is not mandatory to get descent lumber. Make sure you use a good quality endsealer (anchorseal, not any kind of paint) and keep the log out of the direct sun. Since you are heading into winter and you are in NY, you should be ok. If you were here in Texas, you might end up with some minor loss due to end checking.

I just finished milling 2,000 BF of black walnut that has been down and not endsealed for nearly 2 years. The sapwood was basically gone but no one wants that anyway! The ends were checked about 1.5 feet into the log on each end. Other than that, that was the only issue and the logs I had did not look NEAR as good as yours. A few years ago, I milled a walnut tree that had been down for 15 years and it was still like a green log in the middle!

One other thing, 36" is the upper end of any bandmill. If it is over 36" at all, be prepared to pay the sawyer extra to prep it to fit his mill.

This was all meant to give a different perspective based on my hands on experience and no disrespect is intended to anyone above who posted a differing opinion!


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## workinforwood (Oct 25, 2009)

There you go...so maybe my math sucks.  I was trying to calculate off the website and the math scale and must have my b/f all messed up!  I was getting suspicious at the 650 ft calculation but couldn't come up with a different number!  Of course I"m not offended Curtis.  If I am wrong..correct me politely, just like you did!  thanks.


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## DennisM (Oct 25, 2009)

At the very least, cut up those branches and sell em here!   bowls and pens I see Oh My!


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## scotti158 (Oct 25, 2009)

Thanks everyone for the input.


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## RAdams (Oct 26, 2009)

check out the free listings on your local craigslist. I don't know about where you live, but there is always TONS of free wood around me in the Oklahoma Plains. Not all of it is suitable for what we do, but the price is right!


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## scotti158 (Oct 26, 2009)

*Definitely a Good Deal*

Had a rep from a local log buyer stop in, he said the first 9' of the log is suitable for veneering. his initial estimate for just that section of log was $1,088. He will be stopping back with a saw to cut it at the 9' mark to get a look at the inside. I get to keep the other 12'. I'll get that sawed into lumber and still will be ahead and have a bunch of Black Walnut to play with.:biggrin:
Thanks MesquiteMan for the encouragement!


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## LandfillLumber (Oct 27, 2009)

You can wait three years to  mill that logs with it laying on the ground.Walnut and cherry can have the jacket wood rotting and still have tons of wood left in the center.You do need to seal it.Its expensive walnut log prices are about 15-30 cents a bdft. depending on size quality.This would be for butt logs only and only the first log off the tree is a butt log.The big thing is you can't hardly sell the lumber at this time everything is dead.The lumber biz is in a 50 year low at the moment(great timing for Landfill lumber,LOL).Your a smart person selling the logs to a veneer guy this is the only way to really make money on logs at this time,but they have to be perfect.Jeff $1 a bdft. and only .50 cents to dry it WOW,this must not be high grade clear(no sap wood) stock.This is not Kelvins price is it???I know he sells air dried bunks fairly cheap,but kiln dried for $1.50 that is wholesale prices.I would keep the guy your getting it from in the dark about it,lol.Victor


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## LandfillLumber (Oct 27, 2009)

Not much free wood in the north we all burn it up.This has been anissue this year for me I got lots of logs from locals but this year no one is calling me,not good for my stock.I may have to start to buy more logs,but it always had for me to do that(so many free lones if you can get to them first).Victor


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## Daniel (Oct 27, 2009)

Well if nothing else from the differing opinions above. It is clear that the raw log business is a risky one at best. Even my bit of dabbling in getting walnut slabs prooved that to me. It also taught me one other thing. leave the blank making to the blank makers , I am a penturner. thanks tons guys for all the work and risk you take on so the rest of us can relax and have fun.


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## Mark (Oct 27, 2009)

scotti158 said:


> Had a rep from a local log buyer stop in, he said the first 9' of the log is suitable for veneering. his initial estimate for just that section of log was $1,088. He will be stopping back with a saw to cut it at the 9' mark to get a look at the inside. I get to keep the other 12'. I'll get that sawed into lumber and still will be ahead and have a bunch of Black Walnut to play with.:biggrin:
> Thanks MesquiteMan for the encouragement!



Congrats. Paid for the whole deal and left you with several great project. Enjoy.


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## Rcd567 (Nov 3, 2009)

I've got a black walnut tree on my property that has to be a couple hundred years old.  Between three and four feet across at the base. If it dies while I'm alive, I'll process it.  If I die first, (which would be my guess) it'll live on.


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## JohnU (Nov 3, 2009)

congrats Scott on that beautiful find.  Glad it worked out for you.



Rcd567 said:


> I've got a black walnut tree on my property that has to be a couple hundred years old.  Between three and four feet across at the base. If it dies while I'm alive, I'll process it.  If I die first, (which would be my guess) it'll live on.



Not sure how it is in Iowa, but local veneer co. wont touch a tree in town in my area in fear of nails or staples that will damage their blades.  Hope you have better luck than I did.  lol


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