# sunlight+wood=color change? how to fake?



## xxShadowxx (Oct 8, 2011)

so reading up on how woods change color with time due to sunlight (slowly in the house, or fast outside), cherry as example says turned a deep burgundy red after a couple of hours, beauty only skin deep though

so naturally, i would want to try this on a pen or 2 :biggrin: but given weather in this state, i won't be seeing sun for a few months likely, and either way curious if i can use unnatural means and do it indoors, plus allows more control

so from what i read it seems to be the UV light that does it? so a box, cover inside with foil to reflect on all angles of a pen, drop in a UV light? thoughts?

i happen to have 40 UV LEDS :biggrin: but only 5000mcd, wavelength says 395-405nm but given they're from china and on the cheap end, i would assume a bit off, and 400nm is limit of human sight :biggrin: think combined they put out enough UV? find another source? idea is a crock?:biggrin: thoughts!


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## StephenM (Oct 8, 2011)

Have any friends with a mini reef aquarium?  Those lights put out all sorts of UV.  Or, buy a couple of cheap aquarium strip lights and get some reptile lights (UVA and UVB) and hang the pen between the two strips.  

Another option is ammonia fuming.  Works on both oak and cherry and anything else with a high tannin content.  Here's a quick primer:  http://musial.server101.com/fuming.htm


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## xxShadowxx (Oct 8, 2011)

ammonia fuming same result or different? also would effect be skin deep as the UV?
and would fuming first, then UV (natural with time, or rushed as above) still effect it?

so many options, so little time :biggrin:

and sadly no friends with aquariums, i had one but was years ago, no idea where now heh
i was just going to use he UV LEDS (if strong enough) or buy UV lights, if the idea is valid
price isnt bad,


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## alphageek (Oct 8, 2011)

I haven't tried this, but my suggestion would be a pair of those "reflective" or shop type lamp holders and some UV pet/reptile bulbs. suspend the pen between the 2... (just watch your heat and don't close them up too close.

Those UV less are not likely going to be nearly as good because a) they won't be as strong and b) LEDs are VERY directional.   Look at visible less, they are a very small diameter of light and drop off to the edges very quickly.  The LEDs won't get good coverage.


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## Displaced Canadian (Oct 8, 2011)

If you just put it in the window to will turn in 3-4 days no matter how bright the sun is.


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## xxShadowxx (Oct 8, 2011)

Displaced Canadian said:


> If you just put it in the window to will turn in 3-4 days no matter how bright the sun is.



tried, washington has been covered in clouds for 2 weeks, no change vs the ones i left in a closed box, either cherry doesnt turn burgundy or it isnt enough light lol

even still, long term i'd like to setup a way to have it done in hours not days :biggrin:


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## Haynie (Oct 8, 2011)

How big are you going?  Blacklight bulbs work for alternative photo processes.  You can get them at home depot.


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## StephenM (Oct 8, 2011)

xxShadowxx said:


> ammonia fuming same result or different? also would effect be skin deep as the UV?
> and would fuming first, then UV (natural with time, or rushed as above) still effect it?
> 
> so many options, so little time :biggrin:
> ...




Ammonia fuming will go into the wood - not sure how far.  I'm getting ready to turn a pen and I'm going to put both the pen and a blank in the fuming chamber and see what the results are for the blank.  

Not sure if cherry will darken further as it's exposed to UV after it's been fumed - never had a control (or remembered to check).  I'll take before and after pics and post them tomorrow or so (after the fuming).


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## wolftat (Oct 8, 2011)

A little bit of thinned wood stain will do the trick also.


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## xxShadowxx (Oct 8, 2011)

have stains, expanding my options


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## philb (Oct 8, 2011)

A UV light box is the best idea! Have a violin maker I know that uses one to give figured maple s suntan!! Best bulbs are just a couple of daylight coloured aquarium one, cheapest anyway!


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## StephenM (Oct 9, 2011)

OK, here are some photos:

Before








After ~22 hours of fuming:







Finished Pen:







Ammonia Penetration:






(sorry for the crappy phone pictures)


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## StephenM (Oct 9, 2011)

One other thing - if you're going to fume, glue the tubes in AFTER you fume.  I did mine before and the ammonia must be a solvent for CA glue because both tubes were loose when I took them out.  

I'm going to turn the blanks and see if they yield anything interesting with the depth of the fuming.


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## xxShadowxx (Oct 9, 2011)

fuming looks like decent depth, i'll have to try it, quality of pics is fine, point was shown

i might also suggest rough turning "close" maybe 1/8 or 1/16 inch, then finish turning, i bet the depth is effected a bit by the grain, might make interesting patterning

someday if i get time, i'd want to set up a full controlled experiment with timing too, to see how long it takes to get different effects :biggrin:

however i do wonder, since using ammonia, might said pens be hazardous to people they get sold too?


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## StephenM (Oct 9, 2011)

No, the ammonia off gasses fairly quickly so it's not a problem.  Our dining set was fumed in the garage and after it was done and I put the ammonia away, the smell from everything was gone in a couple of hours.


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## xxShadowxx (Oct 9, 2011)

but pens have people chewing on them :biggrin: then again not like the CA finish is that healthy either :biggrin:


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## NC Wood Art (Oct 30, 2011)

Holy gunsmoke Batman, now we got to put health warnings on our pens before selling them!


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## Displaced Canadian (Oct 30, 2011)

The deep red color associated with cherry takes a very long time to develop naturally, decades not days. Purple heart and lingum veti will turn in days.


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## Scott.tudhope (Oct 30, 2011)

Try a heat gun while turning it on the lathe. I have used that on a few of mine. I also use a rope sometimes to bring out the color.


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## Ted iin Michigan (Nov 5, 2011)

Not sure if fuming (with ammonia) will "darken" cherry to do what you want. The ammonia "fumes" react with tannin in the wood - the more tannin, the darker and more pronounced the effect. It's an interesting concept but I don't know if the chemical reaction for fuming is the same as that you get when you expose the cherry to UV. Different reaction = different color? Oaks (white & red) have significant amounts of tannin. It's present in cherry but in lesser amounts. 
BTW - household amonia will do the job but slowly. If you choose to use a stronger ammonia BE CAREFUL! That stuff can kill if you don't know what you're doing and it'll be too late when you find out.


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## StephenM (Nov 5, 2011)

Here's a comparison picture (original discussion was about aging cherry with lye).  He states that they sat in the sun for 2 days.


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## trapper (Nov 5, 2011)

hi,

I've tried using uv lightafter final machining but before final polishing not sure yet if it will work permanently.

I've made a light box by breaking down an old flat bed scanner and refitting the case with 4 uv bulbs. I removed the lid and replaced it with a white laminate faced hardboard box i cut up from scratch put some string accross the box and thread the finnished tubes on  then leave as long as you like with the pens being turned every now and again.

don know yet how sucessful or otherwise it'll be but if nothing else i got alight box that can etch copper for mere pennies


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## PaulDoug (Nov 5, 2011)

Very interesting thread.  I just thought I'd show this.  Talk about color change.  This is a bird house I made and hung outside this spring.  It is Mulberry bottom and bloodwood roof.  I took it down yesterday to bting in for the winter.  Quite a color change.  And, it was sprayed with a UV inhibitor finish.


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