# CA sanding sealer problems.



## Grizzlyss (Feb 22, 2007)

Hi All,
I hope someone can help me out. I have been trying to do the CA sanding sealer that Russ shows on his video on a Cigar pen and Honduran Rosewood, and it just won't work for me. I either get white spots, or the glue hardens to fast and I get a very rough finish. I have tried slow CA, medium CA, and even the slow CA, all to know avail. What was really weird was that the slow CA actually gave me the least amount of time to work. The best I got so far was with the fast CA, but I had a lot of white spots. I have been using 180 grit sand paper, as I don't have any 150, and I am afraid 120 is to coarse to use. I made sure that the blanks were sanded smooth to 3200 MM, then cleaned with some acetone, and waited a couple of minutes with lathe on to make sure it was dry. Any help will be greatly appreciated, as if I keep sanding off my mistakes it will only be a brass tube soon.

Sheldon


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## les-smith (Feb 22, 2007)

I use Fangar's CA method.  Or, at least my version of it, but I did his method exactly as written for quite awhile.  It uses 400 grit for the CA sanding portion.  I've had great results.

http://www.penturners.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=11970&SearchTerms=my

Have you tried it?


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## thewishman (Feb 22, 2007)

I always seal with CA on my 220 grit. I get some dust on the paper and add one or two drops of thin CA on top of the dust. I spread the glue (and dust) on one barrel and then sand all the wet glue off, then repeat on the other barrel. If there are still open pores, I will repeat until they are all sealed. After the pores are sealed I move on to the rest of the sanding - 320, 400, MM.

Chris


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## Grizzlyss (Feb 22, 2007)

No, Les Smith I have not tried his method as I do not have any of the Mylands Sanding Sealer, that is why I was trying Russ's method. Oh how I wish it was as simple as he makes it look. LOL. He is a master at it. But I was amazed that the paper towel wouldn't stick to the CA, so long as you keep it moving. One of the times I accidentaly forgot I had the heater going in the garage, and it was blowing right onto the lathe area, D'Uh !! So I turned it off and tried again, but no luck. The garage is at about 66 degrees F(remember this is the middle of Alberta), but if I understand correctly that should slow things down, not speed them up. Which is what I was hoping for as I am new to this method. I even tried 1/2 a blank at a time so I wouldn't have to rush as much, but, you already know what happened. LOL Thanks for your help, I might be driving down to Calgary tomorrow to meet my Sister and Nephew, and if I'm lucky, hopefully I can find some sanding sealer, then I won't have to worry about this. I went ahead and tried the CA/BLO method the first time and it worked as advertised, except for those little white spots in the grain void of the wood, so I don't anticipate to many problems in that area. LOL I could be wrong!.

Sheldon


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## Grizzlyss (Feb 22, 2007)

Hi The Wishman, maybe that is the problem, I didn't have any sanding dust on my sandpaper when I started, but then again it didn't look like Russ did either. D'Uh, as Mark Twain said "If at first you don't succeed, try, try again, then give up, there is no sense being a damn fool about it." LOL

Sheldon.


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## Dario (Feb 22, 2007)

Try skipping the acetone.  If you must clean the barrel try using CA acelarator instead.  Works for me.


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## Grizzlyss (Feb 22, 2007)

Thanks Dario, I'll give that a try too. Got nothing else to loose, but my sanity, well the wife says that ship has already sailed. 

Sheldon


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## Blind_Squirrel (Feb 23, 2007)

Try the thin (water consistency) CA.  Put a coat on, let it dry.  Sand.  Put a coat on, let it dry, sand with the next finer grit.  Put another coat on, let it dry, sand.  

I normally put a <u>minimum</u> of three coats on. Two in the 400 grit range and one or two in the 600 grit range.

I hope this helps.


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## bradh (Feb 23, 2007)

Another thing to watch is you want to have a good slurry of CA going. If you have too little it will set faster. CA sets by reacting with moisture from the air or wood. The more the puddle of CA, the slower the set. Don't get too much that it starts flying around though.


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## wudnhed (Feb 23, 2007)

I'm with Dario, no Acetone.  Some of us hair stylist have fake nails which are basically made up of acrylic and ca.  Acetones turns them white and mushy, jmho but I stay away from DNA and Acetone.


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## les-smith (Feb 23, 2007)

I use DNA, but I'm going to swap it with accelerator this weekend and see what I think.


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## alxe24 (Feb 24, 2007)

I use DNA too with no peoblems. I sue very little though. I''l try the accelaerator. As far as acetone is almost the same as lacker thiner, it eats most plastics and disolves CA. That is how I clean the CA tip and bushings with CA on them, deep them in lacker thiner for an hour or two and they will come out like new.


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## RussFairfield (Feb 24, 2007)

It could be the wood. You said it was a rosewood. We like to use exotic woods because they are pretty, but they contain a lot of natural oils that have given fits to anyone trying to finish them since the beginning of wood working. That reaction can cause any number of finishing problems, including poor adhesion and reaction with the finish we put on it. That reaction makes oil finishes not dry, lacquer not stick, and CA turn white. The recommended finish for these woods is often an epoxy, but even those have their problems with these species. It shouldn't come as a surprize that the best finish for some woods is a high polish and a coat of wax.

For those who are using all manner of finishes on the Rosewoods, all I can say is, don't be surprized if one day you wake up and your finish doesn't work anymore.  

Using Acetone or alcohol to clean any wood for a CA finish is a risk. It is a good rule of thumb that we should never use any cleaner that isn't a solvent for the finish we are using. In other words, we should use lacquer thinner and acetone for lacquers, alcohols for shellac and friction polishes made from shellac, and mineral spirits for oil varnishes. Since there is no good solvent or thinner for a CA glue, we shouldn't be using one under it. There is always the risk of problems when we mix finishes and thinners. 

Acetone always leaves some residue that can react with the CA and make it "cloudy". Alcohol can carry water into the wood, and that too can make it "cloudy", or spotty, or have poor adhesion. There are really only two choices when using these as a cleaner under a CA finish - either wait a couple days to make sure it has all evaporated, or don't use it at all.  Again, you might be getting away with doing it now, but don't be surprized when it doesn't work.

Dario's use of the CA accelerator is a good one, but again, it is not free of risk. The risk is that not all CA glues and accelerators are compatible. Some accelerators will cause more "bloom" in some brands of CA glue than others, and that bloom will give the finish a "cloudy white" appearance. Waiting a few minutes before applying the CA glue will help. Waiting a long time will help even more if you are having a problem.


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## Grizzlyss (Feb 24, 2007)

As always Russ, you are a wealth of information and knowledge. I only hope that someday I know half of what you know, and that would make me a lot better turner indeed. Thanks everyone for all your assistance and suggestions, I will be trying them this weekend, to see if I can finally get this pen finished.

Sheldon


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## Grizzlyss (Feb 25, 2007)

Thank you Dario and Blind Squirrel for your help. I followed both of your recommendations, Dario's "use accelerator to clean the blanks", and Blind Squirrel's "just use thin CA, sand, and so on". After using both of these I got a great finish on my pen, I had to do a lot of sanding after the CA kicked of to fast the first time and ripped the applicator out of my fingers, good thing I hold it loosely and use Russ's home made applicators. But after going through the sandpapers and MM I got it all, then on to the CA/BLO finish. Man it sure felt great to get it done, with a nice finish to boot. Thank you again to eveyone.


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## Dario (Feb 25, 2007)

Glad it worked for you.[^]

Thick CA sets slower even w/ accelerator treated wood hint-hint []


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