# Craft Supplies Enters the Game



## DCBluesman (Sep 23, 2010)

Fusion blanks


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## bruce119 (Sep 23, 2010)

I just got the e-mail ans watched the video. Hmmmm first time I saw craft supply get on the boat sort of say.

From the same supplier in Florida perhaps ????


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## pensbydesign (Sep 23, 2010)

color, selection price looks the same to me.


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## mick (Sep 23, 2010)

Personally I won't want to buy a blank where I only see a stock picture....I much prefer the individual selection our vendors offer.


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## jskeen (Sep 23, 2010)

Could be, but does it really matter to us?  We know where to get them better and cheaper, and those that don't will pay more for inferior blanks, and most likely therefore charge more for a inferior pen.  We will continue to produce superior products at a lower cost, generating higher sales volume at better margins.  

Kinda sucks for Curtis, not getting a royalty, but hey, if he wanted to go into full production churning out thousands of mediocre blanks, he could have done so long ago.  I personally am glad that he handcrafts a (relatively) few amazing blanks, and sells them to us.  We all know that if he was looking for maximum profit from minimum effort, The last thing he would do would be to Moderate a bunch of knotheads like us for free, and custom build houses for a living.


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## ironman (Sep 23, 2010)

those are pretty sweet


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## OKLAHOMAN (Sep 23, 2010)

ironman said:


> those are pretty sweet


 You still think so at $20.00 each?


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## mick (Sep 23, 2010)

OKLAHOMAN said:


> ironman said:
> 
> 
> > those are pretty sweet
> ...


 
Eugene's average 12 bucks and I get to see and pick individual blanks.
Didn't mean to leave Curtis out but I can't remember what his sell for but it's much less than $20.00


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## wolftat (Sep 23, 2010)

Pitiful.


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## ldb2000 (Sep 23, 2010)

mick said:


> OKLAHOMAN said:
> 
> 
> > ironman said:
> ...


 
And they have allot more life then the ones at CSUSA . Care is put into the making to give the best looks , they're not just slapped together .


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## ironman (Sep 23, 2010)

OKLAHOMAN said:


> ironman said:
> 
> 
> > those are pretty sweet
> ...



Well they are the same price since the first time i saw them today, so then yes my opinion is still the same, i think they are sweet.


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## cowchaser (Sep 23, 2010)

Not to be offensive here to anyone, but I also see others here taking someone elses idea and selling for profit. I mean look in the classifieds right now and you can see several examples from blanks to casting molds. I don't know who's idea it was to begin with, but it was someones and somebody else is jumping in trying to take business away from originator. I do know one guy that is capable of copying an idea of another here and absolutely refuses to and what the idea is makes beautiful pens.


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## glycerine (Sep 23, 2010)

cowchaser said:


> Not to be offensive here to anyone, but I also see others here taking someone elses idea and selling for profit. I mean look in the classifieds right now and you can see several examples from blanks to casting molds. I don't know who's idea it was to begin with, but it was someones and somebody else is jumping in trying to take business away from originator. I do one guy that is capable of copying an idea of another here and absolutely refuses to and what the idea is makes beautiful pens.


 
Eeeewwww, keep that stuff to yourself... :biggrin:


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## Snorton20 (Sep 23, 2010)

I am so glad someone else caught that.


glycerine said:


> cowchaser said:
> 
> 
> > Not to be offensive here to anyone, but I also see others here taking someone elses idea and selling for profit. I mean look in the classifieds right now and you can see several examples from blanks to casting molds. I don't know who's idea it was to begin with, but it was someones and somebody else is jumping in trying to take business away from originator. I do one guy that is capable of copying an idea of another here and absolutely refuses to and what the idea is makes beautiful pens.
> ...


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## phillywood (Sep 23, 2010)

cowchaser said:


> Not to be offensive here to anyone, but I also see others here taking someone elses idea and selling for profit. I mean look in the classifieds right now and you can see several examples from blanks to casting molds. I don't know who's idea it was to begin with, but it was someones and somebody else is jumping in trying to take business away from originator. I do one guy that is capable of copying an idea of another here and absolutely refuses to and what the idea is makes beautiful pens.


 
 I thought we are supposed to keep personal stuff off this site.:biggrin:


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## phillywood (Sep 23, 2010)

DCBluesman said:


> Fusion blanks


lou, You know that they are lurking under guest in IAP and find some sucker who tries to copy stuff for them for cheap. they wouldnt have the marbles to go direclty to Eugene or Curtis to buy it from them.


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## MesquiteMan (Sep 23, 2010)

I actually talked to Rex at CSUSA at the recent SWAT meeting.  I showed him some of my stuff and he said he was already talking with an outfit from Florida.  I asked him what they were charging and told him I could almost match it on my basic blanks.  He said my blanks were too "uniquely individual" and it would be hard to sell them with stock photos and that he was probably going to go with the outfit from Florida.  I told him that I was the originator of the idea as far as I knew and as far as anyone has been able to prove but that did not seem to matter.  Oh well.  I would not have made enough with what they want to pay anyway.  I put WAY too much work into the prep of my wood.


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## jskeen (Sep 23, 2010)

MesquiteMan said:


> I put WAY too much work into the prep of my wood.



As is perfectly obvious to anybody who looks at them.


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## MesquiteMan (Sep 23, 2010)

cowchaser said:


> Not to be offensive here to anyone, but I also see others here taking someone elses idea and selling for profit. I mean look in the classifieds right now and you can see several examples from blanks to casting molds. I don't know who's idea it was to begin with, but it was someones and somebody else is jumping in trying to take business away from originator. I do one guy that is capable of copying an idea of another here and absolutely refuses to and what the idea is makes beautiful pens.



Dustin, this is very true and I find it rather ironic, actually.  In the Woodcraft thread, everyone condemned Woodcraft for "stealing" my idea and then went on say they would only buy from the IAP vendors.  Well, I hate to say it, but the guys selling this type of blank here on IAP copied my idea without asking too.  Two of them TOLD me they were going to but never asked and I never complained.  They are still profiting directly from my idea and my tutorial without giving me any royalties or even credit, at lest not directly.  What's the difference?  I am not necessarily complaining, I just find it rather ironic how members here will jump to protect our own, even when our own are doing EXACTLY the same thing!

That brings up a whole new subject in this whole thing...my original tutorial had a copyright notice on it that said it was for personal use only  Pretty much the same thing as when you buy a plan to build something.  You are permitted to make a couple for yourself but you are not allowed to sell the items made from that plan.  Is a tutorial not the same when it spells out how to do it step by step?


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## keithkarl2007 (Sep 23, 2010)

But it would be fair to say that it is possibly a member here manufacturing and supplying these blanks to CSUSA.


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## cowchaser (Sep 23, 2010)

There I fixed it for the grammar police.


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## MesquiteMan (Sep 23, 2010)

keithkarl2007 said:


> But it would be fair to say that it is possibly a member here manufacturing and supplying these blanks to CSUSA.



NO, IT IS NOT A MEMBER HERE MAKING THESE.  It is the same outfit out of Florida that is selling to Woodcraft.  At least according to Rex at CSUSA who is in charge of new products.


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## mick (Sep 23, 2010)

MesquiteMan said:


> cowchaser said:
> 
> 
> > Not to be offensive here to anyone, but I also see others here taking someone elses idea and selling for profit. I mean look in the classifieds right now and you can see several examples from blanks to casting molds. I don't know who's idea it was to begin with, but it was someones and somebody else is jumping in trying to take business away from originator. I do one guy that is capable of copying an idea of another here and absolutely refuses to and what the idea is makes beautiful pens.
> ...


 
I wasn't necessarily defending anyone for making them....my main point is I wouldn't buy blanks from stock catalog photos. Most all the members I buy from post individual pictures when possible. That's why I buy from IAP folks.


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## glycerine (Sep 23, 2010)

cowchaser said:


> There I fixed it for the grammar police.


 
We were just seeing how far off topic we could get this thread! :biggrin:


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## glycerine (Sep 23, 2010)

As for the topic at hand though, it's odd how CSUSA picked up on them so soon after Woodcraft...  None at PSI yet?  Curtis, you better start making some phone calls!


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## MesquiteMan (Sep 23, 2010)

glycerine said:


> As for the topic at hand though, it's odd how CSUSA picked up on them so soon after Woodcraft...  None at PSI yet?  Curtis, you better start making some phone calls!



I can't lower my standards enough to be able to sell them to them for $9.50 each!


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## MesquiteMan (Sep 23, 2010)

NewLondon88 said:


> The copyright only protects the writing of the tutorial, not the product or
> the process. Those would have to be protected by patent, not copyright.
> 
> The people who sell plans and say that you can only make 1 are either
> ...



Not completely sure about that, Charlie.  I know absolutely without a doubt that is not the case with home plans.  If I draw a set of plans for you as my customer, even if you commissioned me for a custom plan, it can only be used for one home.  Any further use without permission is a violation of the copyright.  There have been many court cases where the architect or home designer has sued for this very issue and won.


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## MesquiteMan (Sep 23, 2010)

Nope, it was all handled in intellectual properry lawsuits and had nothing to do with breach of contract.  Then agian, I believe there may be special rules for architectural works.


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## cowchaser (Sep 23, 2010)

Sorry guys I didn't mean to come back here and immediately start a debate. However, you look at it using someone elses work and making profit from it is not right. That person put in the effort to make it their own and should be the one profiting from it. Maybe to me it's more of a moral thing or a personal opinion or it could be the lortabs and oxycontin the doctors have me on talking about what is none of my business. For some reason it just struck me wrong. I see Curtis put in the effort it took to make worthless wood blanks, bonnet blanks and cactus blanks and getting stepped on for someones profit with no recognition. There are alot of new guys here that don't know the truth behind it all. I was filled in when I started here. Okay, I'll shut up now and mind my business. Sorry Jeff, Curtis and everyone else. I apologize I am just going through alot right now.


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## bitshird (Sep 23, 2010)

Eugen's are far better, and less expensive with more choices. and I have seen some copies of Curtis's Cactus blanks, I'll stick with Curtis for Cactus Skeleton blanks, I've not tried any of his Worthless wood, cause I mostly make my own as does animefan, you can turn Curtis's blanks with out having them explode and sending chunks fly all over, you can even drop them and they don't shatter like glass.


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## wizical (Sep 23, 2010)

After reading all of the posts on what people are saying, and cruising over to CSUSA website and taking a look at what the new pen blanks look like!  WHO CARES!  If you dont like them, dont buy them!  The marketplace usually works itself out....they may sell, they may not!  But to get all fired up over it, it seems like a waste of time to me, where I would rather be turning, but that is just me


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## OKLAHOMAN (Sep 23, 2010)

I have mixed feelings on this subject, would I take someone else's ideas and profit from them. The answer is yes but not at the expense of the originator. If someone makes and sells blanks, I see nothing wrong with making the same or simular blank and making pens from them and selling the pens, but to go into direct competion and sell blanks no. Now if I see a completed pen lets say made from pigs ears and that person who made it sells in a completely different venue will I make a pigs ear pen and sell it.....yes I would as all of us who sell pens make pens that someone else has made before from simple cherry slimlines to exotic Emperors pens made of gator jaw bone or cactus.


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## MesquiteMan (Sep 23, 2010)

OKLAHOMAN said:


> I have mixed feelings on this subject, would I take someone else's ideas and profit from them. The answer is yes but not at the expense of the originator. If someone makes and sells blanks, I see nothing wrong with making the same or simular blank and making pens from them and selling the pens, but to go into direct competion and sell blanks no. Now if I see a completed pen lets say made from pigs ears and that person who made it sells in a completely different venue will I make a pigs ear pen and sell it.....yes I would as all of us who sell pens make pens that someone else has made before from simple cherry slimlines to exotic Emperors pens made of gator jaw bone or cactus.



And that, my friend, is the exact spirit in which I wrote the 2 different tutorials I have shared here over the last couple of years.  I shared my process on Worthless Wood so that folks who were interested could make their own blanks to be used to make their own pens, not to teach everyone and their brother how to compete with me here at IAP on making and selling these types of blanks.  I was naive to think that folks would not try to profit from my idea directly by making blanks and selling them here.

Now you see folks with ads for 60-100 worthless wood blanks at a time every week here at IAP.  Some of the guys are even in an ad war at times!  That is the primary reason I no longer advertise my blanks here.


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## PenMan1 (Sep 23, 2010)

Well said, Roy!

I feel that CUSA is feeling the "pinch". IAP members can buy far superior blanks at the same or lessor price than CUSA.

Additionally, now that we can buy hardware in reasonable quantities at much discounted pricing directly from Dayacom, CUSA will lose much of the professional and advanced amateur market.

No disrespect to CUSA, but I found better or the same products from other sources, long ago. The only thing I really buy from them anymore is the $9.99 9 piece mm set. And simebody somewhere sells those for $ 7.99, I just can't find the link.


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## Texatdurango (Sep 23, 2010)

The simplest solution to keep potential competitors from copying your work is to do away tutorials all together, pull existing ones from the library and stop answering members questions when they ask how you do something!  Just show your work and let 'em figure it out or better yet....... just stop posting photos of our work if it's unique in nature.

There problem solved!....... oh wait, isn't that what the IAP is all about - sharing ideas and helping others?

Perhaps some ethicical guidelines might be in order and adhering to these guidelines might be a prerequsite to posting things for sale in the classifieds!  Just imagine.... ethics and honesty in the classifieds!


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## MesquiteMan (Sep 23, 2010)

Texatdurango said:


> The simplest solution to keep potential competitors from copying your work is to do away tutorials all together, pull existing ones from the library and stop answering members questions when they ask how you do something!  Just show your work and let 'em figure it out or better yet....... just stop posting photos of our work if it's unique in nature.
> 
> There problem solved!....... oh wait, isn't that what the IAP is all about - sharing ideas and helping others?
> 
> Perhaps some ethicical guidelines might be in order and adhering to these guidelines might be a prerequsite to posting things for sale in the classifieds!  Just imagine.... ethics and honesty in the classifieds!



George, if you have some concrete suggestions for the classifieds, I am all ears.  There are going to be some changes in the near future.


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## Pens By Scott (Sep 23, 2010)

I'd say it looks like the difference between quality vs. quantity... Eugene wins in my eyes!


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## rjwolfe3 (Sep 23, 2010)

So, how bout them Cowboys?!


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## OKLAHOMAN (Sep 23, 2010)

rjwolfe3 said:


> So, how bout them Cowboys?!


0 and 2, next week 0 and 3:biggrin:


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## rjwolfe3 (Sep 23, 2010)

Man, I hope not. This was supposed to be their year!:beat-up:



OKLAHOMAN said:


> rjwolfe3 said:
> 
> 
> > So, how bout them Cowboys?!
> ...


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## cowchaser (Sep 23, 2010)

rjwolfe3 said:


> Man, I hope not. This was supposed to be their year!:beat-up:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Don't we hear it's their year every year. :biggrin::tongue:


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## rjwolfe3 (Sep 23, 2010)

True but I think because the Superbowl is going to be in Dallas then they were the team to beat. But from the way they are playing, I guess not.:frown: What sucks this is the first football season that I have been able to watch because I just switched my days off to Sun/Mon.



cowchaser said:


> rjwolfe3 said:
> 
> 
> > Man, I hope not. This was supposed to be their year!:beat-up:
> ...


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## sappha58 (Sep 23, 2010)

Don't worry about those people, Curtis.  Those of us who know are only going to buy from you.

Maybe you should think about getting a lawyer and protecting your idea?  



MesquiteMan said:


> I actually talked to Rex at CSUSA at the recent SWAT meeting.  I showed him some of my stuff and he said he was already talking with an outfit from Florida.  I asked him what they were charging and told him I could almost match it on my basic blanks.  He said my blanks were too "uniquely individual" and it would be hard to sell them with stock photos and that he was probably going to go with the outfit from Florida.  I told him that I was the originator of the idea as far as I knew and as far as anyone has been able to prove but that did not seem to matter.  Oh well.  I would not have made enough with what they want to pay anyway.  I put WAY too much work into the prep of my wood.


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## jttheclockman (Sep 24, 2010)

Why is it and this is soooooooooooo annoying when a topic gets going and there is good banter back and forth and then someone gets bored there is always this change the subject or pictures of dead horses showing up

Let the thread play out and if you don't want to read it move on. So tired of this. 

To the original comment this comes up time and time again. You know it is just a matter of time when an idea is and will be copied and mass produced. Unless you have patents or whatever to protect your idea then you have no say about it. Sure you can gripe about it and we see alot of that but it will happen. If you want something to be your own then don't show it or take all measures to protect it. 

As far as competing on selling a certain blank I guess this is a moral situation but this is what our society is built on. People see things and then put their own twist on it. They may use a different method of casting or different materials but there are just so many ideas to do to make a pen. People say come up with your own ideas. This is probably the hardest thing to do in this hobby and unless you have metal lathes and things of this nature to rebuild or redesign a pen shape then the only thing we have to play with is the blank we put on these kits. We are all starving for that next big break through. I see this so often in the scrollsawing world. People are always looking for that next type of scrolling work only because the ideas get harder and harder to come up with. 

As far as members selling items here that maybe in competion with others so be it. If they feel they are doing no wrong and who are we to push the morals button???  You are the one making the purchase. You buy from whoever you want for whatever reason you want. No need to flaunt it. 

I joined this forum a few years back because I thought this was a unique forum where the members share their ideas and help better the pen turning hobby. With more and more people turning pens the demand for more ideas and more parts is there and there are those that have jumped on to make a profit. So we see more and more of what we are reading in this thread and threads of past and will continue to read threads such as these. Want to stifle this process then do two things, put restrictions on this site as to who can view and stop doing tutorials and showing your new ideas. 

Alright I have to go to work now so I am done with the speech. But I do hope to read more.


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## jscola (Sep 24, 2010)

I'm sure Curtis's blanks are a lot better!! He makes quality blanks!! I would rather give my money to  from someone in the IAP !   Joe


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## rjwolfe3 (Sep 24, 2010)

The reason that people are trying to change this subject is because some of us see nothing good coming from this thread. This will just become another crap thread and I am tired of seeing them pop up over and over again. Threads like this do not do anything to advance penturning at all. This is one of those threads that if you disagree with the status quo then you are going to get ridiculed. I really wish we could have these discussions without all of the personal feelings but you know, as well as I do, that we can't.

I was really hoping not to have to comment on this because I don't agree with those that are complaining about Woodcraft and CSUSA selling these blanks. I do not believe that Curtis has a monopoly on these blanks and I don't even believe that he was the very first one to come up with the idea. Can I prove that, no I can't. But if he wanted royalties from his idea then he should have patented it. I do think that other casters make just as good if not better blanks then what Curtis makes. El Mostro is one that comes to mind. I have blanks made from several casters on here, some even from Curtis. All have made beautiful pens. I have not tried any from the guy in Florida and probably won't because I think $20 is a waste when I can buy them cheaper here. And yes I do believe in supporting our IAP members. I buy from them before I buy from anyone else. I just think that these discussions about copyright and who made what first are very counterproductive and not necessary. I realize that I am in the minority here which is why I really do not try to post these comments.

I have said my peace and I will try to refrain from saying anything more about it. If you disagree with me, please send me a pm. I would rather this discussion be contained in pms then in an open forum where I believe nothing good will come out of it. JMHO:frown:




jttheclockman said:


> Why is it and this is soooooooooooo annoying when a topic gets going and there is good banter back and forth and then someone gets bored there is always this change the subject or pictures of dead horses showing up
> 
> Let the thread play out and if you don't want to read it move on. So tired of this.
> 
> ...


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## jscola (Sep 24, 2010)

Hey how about our Detroit Lions!  Joe


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## MesquiteMan (Sep 24, 2010)

NewLondon88 said:


> I think common sense dictates that you shouldn't take an idea you find
> here and then try to sell it back to the same people you took it from..
> but maybe I'm in the minority here..



And that is the crux of the whole issue as far as I am concerned.

I do know that there is nothing legal I can do, even if I wanted to.  I choose not to seek a patent and that is the only somewhat protection for this type of thing.


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## MesquiteMan (Sep 24, 2010)

rjwolfe3 said:


> I was really hoping not to have to comment on this because I don't agree with those that are complaining about Woodcraft and CSUSA selling these blanks. I do not believe that Curtis has a monopoly on these blanks and I don't even believe that he was the very first one to come up with the idea. Can I prove that, no I can't. But if he wanted royalties from his idea then he should have patented it. I do think that other casters make just as good if not better blanks then what Curtis makes. El Mostro is one that comes to mind. I have blanks made from several casters on here, some even from Curtis. All have made beautiful pens. I have not tried any from the guy in Florida and probably won't because I think $20 is a waste when I can buy them cheaper here. And yes I do believe in supporting our IAP members. I buy from them before I buy from anyone else. I just think that these discussions about copyright and who made what first are very counterproductive and not necessary. I realize that I am in the minority here which is why I really do not try to post these comments.




The problem is that this type of activity, though it may not be wrong in your eyes, is stiffing the sharing of ideas that IAP is supposed to be about.  I absolutely know that when someone takes an idea that is shown  here and starts copying it here and selling it here, then that stifles  the sharing of future new ideas.  With what I know now, I would never  have written or shared a tutorial on Worthless Wood or Cactus blanks.   If you wanted to copy me, you would have to figure it out yourself.  I  sure as heck would not give you a step by step pictorial on how to do it  to compete with me!

And by the way, I have never said I was absolutely positively the first human to ever cast wood in resin.  I do claim, positively, that I was the first person to do it specifically for pens and show it here on IAP and, *as far as I know*, anywhere else.  It would be very presumptuous of me to assume no one in the world has ever done anything like this.  Believe it or not, that is not my style.  I also have never said anything at all about royalties.  

As a matter of fact, there is a fellow here on IAP that wanted to start making WW blanks.  He is the only one who contacted me and asked for my permission.  I told him explicitly that he did not have to have my permission since I did not have a patent on the process and that he was free to do what he wanted to do.  I did tell him that I would prefer that he NOT do it since I actively sell these blanks as part of my income but that I would NEVER do anything to try to prevent him from selling them.  He decided to sell some blanks and offered to pay me royalties.  I declined the offer since I did not think it was right to accept them.

All I am saying is that I think a little common courtesy here on IAP should prevail.  If you see someone that comes up with a good idea and starts selling it, let them sell it.  Don't try to come in and flood the market and undercut the original creative guy.  That is the most sure fire way to stop the sharing of techniques.

This is all just my opinion and not the official position of IAP or "The Moderator's Office":biggrin:


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## Penl8the (Sep 24, 2010)

Hi All,

I have been holding back on the debate/discussion. 

Background:

I was a computer programmer long time ago.  It was the B.I. Era (Before Internet).  I had a few shareware programs and made a few $$$.  Then a big software company incorporated some of my ideas into their OS.  How did I feel?  Pretty s@#ty, unhurt, violated, robbed, unrecognized, loosing $$$ that should come my way, and so on.

Here is my personal opinion.  



 If you feel strongly about the person who has the original idea (for whatever he invented, pen blanks, molds, etc) and is still making high quality product, to show your support - GO BUY something from that person.  It does not have to much.  I am sure the original inventor would feel *very* appreciated.
With the larger vendors, it is a love-hate relationship.  Without these places where would we buy our pen kits?  Group buy?  I don't think there will be too many of us will sink tens of thousands of $$$ to buy from overseas.  And the work goes behind the scene to sort the little plastic bags, package them, mailing them out to you fellow penmakers?  Been there, done that - not doing it again.
For those of us/you, when we/you selling something that is a variation of an original idea, GIVE the original inventor the CREDIT, or better yet, ask for PERMISSION.  We did that in our term papers in school.  It is called bibliography.
In a term paper if you don't include an entry in your bibliography, it is called plagiarism.  Synonyms for plagiarize are steal, pirate, infringe, etc.
OK I am off my soapbox now.  Thanks for reading.

P.S. I am NOT asking for any rebuttal.


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## jskeen (Sep 24, 2010)

MesquiteMan said:


> NewLondon88 said:
> 
> 
> > I think common sense dictates that you shouldn't take an idea you find
> ...



Absolutely correct.  Is it illegal?  No.  Impolite, Tacky, unsportsmanlike, choose your adjective.  But ultimately at that level, a private matter between individuals, best handled that way.  

But here's the pinch for the rest of us.  Supporting that type of behavior is just as unsavory GIVEN YOU KNOW WHAT IS HAPPENING.  The back story of this whole issue was never public knowledge UNTIL NOW.  

Those who eat meat are on the same moral level as the butcher.

There.  I said it.  I feel better.


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## Skye (Sep 24, 2010)

^ I agree. One question is, what if the originator puts out an inferior product? *Granted I don't think I've seen this happen yet*, but you never know. I just wonder if you/I'd change my mind then. Just food for thought. (or devil's advocate, whatever lol)


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## PenMan1 (Sep 24, 2010)

Skye said:


> ^ I agree. One question is, what if the originator puts out an inferior product? *Granted I don't think I've seen this happen yet*, but you never know. I just wonder if you/I'd change my mind then. Just food for thought. (or devil's advocate, whatever lol)


 
I have bought from a couple of bad vendors here. One just sells crappy products and the other just never delivers (or refunds your money, for that matter). I never had need to point these vendors out by name, because they apparently treated other IAP members the same way. These things have a way of working themselves out here!

The other side of the coin is that MOST of the vendors that I DO deal with here GO WELL BEYOND reasonable customer service. One vender here will actually take back his blanks, EVEN IF YOU JUST DON'T LIKE THE WAY THE FINISHED PRODUCT LOOKS.


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## maxwell_smart007 (Sep 24, 2010)

Soapbox time! 

There's been a lot of posts about 'is it legal' when the real question should have been 'is it right'

I think the mentality of saying 'he didn't patent it, so it's fair game for me to sell it' is a surefire way to stifle creativity and idea sharing.  If we, as penmakers, are not going to reward innovators, then we will soon become a forum entirely devoted to kits, purchasing blanks, and widespreak lack of creativity. 

The IAP is in real danger of losing it's creativity and sharing attitude.  The plethora of recent posts on cheaper alternatives and mass-market versions of items that IAP members created is proof of that.  The IAP is a special place - it's not ebay, and it should not be thought of as solely a place to buy and sell blanks.  The focus on that lately is, in my mind, a real issue.  The way we've all seemed to buy into the 'that's cool - where can I buy it' mentality has resulted in this recent lack of creativity - or rather, the lack of sharing of our creativity.  

It was begun as a community, and should remain a community.  If we look at this community solely as a marketplace, that's where we begin to lose our closeknit identity.

We could all 'lawyer up' and protect our own intellectual property at great cost to ourselves, and refuse to share any new innovative ideas - or we can respect the creativity and innovation of new blank-makers and new ideas, and allow the inventor to sell them (if he/she wishes), or make them ourselves for our own use, if that's what you'd rather do...but taking someone's idea and selling it is not filling a niche - it's stealing an idea.  

Morals aside, the creativity of this community is something that should be continued to be shared, so we can all grow and innovate together.  Otherwise, we'll stagnate - and that would be a real shame.  

Ok, time to get off of my soapbox!


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## DCBluesman (Sep 24, 2010)

Dear Lord, thank you for keeping one hand on my shoulder and the other over my keyboard for this thread.


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## LandfillLumber (Sep 24, 2010)

Not much to say on this one really they have milled lumber since time began who do I ask for permission or give royalties to on that one(God him self,LOL)?As this is partly how I make a living.The blue jean blanks I make are not my idea they are adapted from knife making,and still the knife thing was not my idea either.I don't see anyone making the blue jean blank the way I make them,but who really cares if "JOE" of the IAP/or other site starts to make them buy the hundreds.I don't care.Most all ideas are adapted from other good ones as with most inventions(only a different way to do it most the time).Buy from who you want to and I hope its from IAP members when ever possible.My two cents not that anyone cares,lol,Victor


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## jttheclockman (Sep 24, 2010)

maxwell_smart007 said:


> Soapbox time!
> 
> There's been a lot of posts about 'is it legal' when the real question should have been 'is it right'
> 
> ...


 

With this all said, what makes what CSUSA or any other big player different than what the members are doing here???  How do we know what is being said by via PM or email. Like I said who are we to judge the morality of this. The thing that has to be remember we are not the only pen makers in the world. This site is a small sampling as to what is being done out there. There is too creativety here and some of this is piggybacked onto what we see others are doing. An idea may come along and be expanded on and developed to a better degree. Many people here have chosen not to get involved with casting and it is not for everyone. There is the expense, the danger and so forth so they look for the goods sold here because they too either want these products for themselves or want to include in their sales. What is wrong with that. 

I am not defending what the big players do about things they see here and mass produce but what right do we have to say this is wrong.  Sure in a perfect world any ideas shown here stay here and only the creator can produce them. Wake up that is not the real world. I think that would stifle us also. When someone makes something that they saw here or read a tutorial on do you want credits rolling on the bottom of every post. What if we do not know where or who??  I think the (IS IT LEGAL??) is a great question and I only wish we did have some straight forward answers but as in many posts it just is not that simple and there is so much grey area in there. 

As far as multiple people selling similar blanks is between the sellers and Like I said how do we know if communication was or was not open.


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## maxwell_smart007 (Sep 24, 2010)

jttheclockman said:


> With this all said, what makes what CSUSA or any other big player different than what the members are doing here???
> 
> *In my opinion, nothing at all*
> 
> ...



Just my opinion.


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## titan2 (Sep 24, 2010)

*> Those who eat meat are on the same moral level as the butcher. <*


What's wrong with the butcher?

God gave us critters so that we could have fritters!!!



Barney


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