# CA food safe?



## MatthewZS

Once a CA finish is cured, and assuming it's thick enough to be certain nothing in the wood is coming THRU the finish....... would this be considered food safe?  Seems like it would be..... it's just an acrylic finish basically....

If not, what would be another tough polish-able food safe finish that could be put on curved surfaces?

Thanks.


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## Kalai

That is a good question, I would like to know for sure if it is considered food safe.
Like you I also think that it would be food safe but I do not know for sure, maybe someone else out there does.
Aloha.

Chris "Kalai"


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## jaywood1207

Any finish is food safe once it is fully cured.  You just have to know when fully cured is.  Just because it is dry doesn't mean it is fully cured.


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## Wildman

Toxicity

The fumes from CA are a vaporized form of the cyanoacrylate monomer that irritate sensitive membranes in the eyes, nose and throat. They are immediately polymerized by the moisture in the membranes and become inert. These risks can be minimized by using CA in well ventilated areas. About 5% of the population can become sensitized to CA fumes after repeated exposure, resulting in flu-like symptoms.[13] It may also act as a skin irritant and may cause an allergic skin reaction. The ACGIH assign a Threshold Limit Value exposure limit of 200 parts per billion. On rare occasions, inhalation may trigger asthma. There is no singular measurement of toxicity for all cyanoacrylate adhesives as there is a wide variety of adhesives that contain various cyanoacrylate formulations.
The United States National Toxicology Program and the United Kingdom Health and Safety Executive have concluded that the use of ethyl cyanoacrylate is safe and that additional study is unnecessary.[14] 2-octyl cyanoacrylate degrades much more slowly due to its longer organic backbone which slows the degradation of the adhesive enough to remain below the threshold of tissue toxicity. Due to the toxicity issues of ethyl cyanoacrylate, the use of 2-octyl cyanoacrylate for sutures is preferred.

The "Universal Truths" of Woodturning
(as I see them) by Russ Fairfield

33 - There is no such thing as a "food-safe" finish. Somewhere, sometime, someone will be found who has an allergy to anything that we can put on the surface of a piece of wood, or to the wood itself. If it is considered as being safe, it's because that person hasn't been found, yet.

34 - Woodturners and chemical companies are the only people who believe that, "All finishes are food-safe after the solvents have evaporated." Try explaining this logic to a generation of folks who believe that their health has suffered from "Better living through chemistry."


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## MatthewZS

In light of the brilliantly articulated points posted in response to my own, allow me to rephrase my query:

What would YOU use to coat something you wanted to be food safe?  It doesn't have to be "Water tight".... just safe for coming in contact with your food, your moouth, etc....  ie. spoons, bowls, tongue depressors...... 

P.S. - not making tongue depressors, it's 4 in the morning, it was the best example I could think of

P.P.S. - coating it in Pyrex isn't an option


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## JimB

Woodcraft sells Salad Bowl finish. I believe it is FDA approved food safe and can be used on the things you refer to .

You must go to a very exclusive doctor if he used tongue depressors with a nice finish on them. My doc only used plain wood.:biggrin:


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## Shock me

All a matter of perspective I suppose since I wouldn't even concede that our food supply itself is "safe"...


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## Wildman

Are you making craft items to hang on the wall or for actual use? You should provide care and cleaning instructions and reapplication of finish to whomever you give or sell items too if for actual use! 

Here are two good articles on the subject. 
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/finlines/knaeb98c.pdf

The Folly of Food-Safe Finishes 
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/features/finish3.html

No finish, rolling pins, Google to find out why!

Mineral oil is the base for many so-called-food safe finishes (salad bowl, butcher block). Many folks save the expense and buy plain mineral oil knowing they will recoat as needed.  BLO & Tung Oil also recommended a lot, again reapplication required over time. 

All oil & wax finishes will need reapplications on regular basis with use.

Film finishes will need refinishing over time with use too!


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## soligen

There is a version of CA used in the medical industry for glueing together cuts. I havn't tried it, but if you used this version of CA, I think it would play well with a customer.

You could call it a "Medical Grade" finish :biggrin:


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## IPD_Mrs

We have a surgical repair office that buys our spray accelerant by the case.


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## nativewooder

I still don't understand why anyone would want to eat cured CA glue!:biggrin:


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## nativewooder

And now, the rest of the story!  For many thousands of years, people creatures ate from various containers of wood, stone, and whatever else the aliens provided them with.  They didn't have dish soap, dishwashers, and just imagine, we're still here!!!  But don't tell this to the modern American consumer because they believe everything that television and politicians tell them!:wink:


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## ed4copies

Another downer:

When you sell products that will have food in them, some genius will throw it in the dishwasher.  So, is it also going to resist 160 degree water, sprayed with pressure, for about 45 minutes?


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## Shock me

soligen said:


> There is a version of CA used in the medical industry for glueing together cuts. I havn't tried it, but if you used this version of CA, I think it would play well with a customer.
> 
> You could call it a "Medical Grade" finish :biggrin:


 
True that. It's called "Dermabond". I've been tempted to try it but 

1) It's tinted purple

2) It's hellaciously expensive

3) The applicator is a glass ampule that you crack and squeeze through a cottony tip, don't think it would work well.

You'd need to be in one big hurry to spray accelerant on a wound, just saying...


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## AceMrFixIt

soligen said:


> There is a version of CA used in the medical industry for glueing together cuts. I havn't tried it, but if you used this version of CA, I think it would play well with a customer.
> 
> You could call it a "Medical Grade" finish :biggrin:


 
I had a cut and closed it with my pen making CA. Worked like a charm.


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## Mac

Don't know about food safe CA but it will stop bleeding burns just a little when drying. As for wood items used for food. I use walnut oil. It will not gum up or get sticky. It might even get you another sale. Sale them a bowl and some walnut oil, so they can apply after (hand) washing and drying. My wife uses walnut oil on all her wood spoons also.


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## jaywood1207

Mineral oil is another option.


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## LeeR

Shellac is food safe -- it is just bug squeezings ..."all natural".  

Also used as a coating on foods.


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## MatthewZS

nativewooder said:


> And now, the rest of the story!  For many thousands of years, people creatures ate from various containers of wood, stone, and whatever else the aliens provided them with.  They didn't have dish soap, dishwashers, and just imagine, we're still here!!!  But don't tell this to the modern American consumer because they believe everything that television and politicians tell them!:wink:



I totally get that  Trick is if you can't say you at least made SOME attempt to make it safe..... most people won't buy it.

"You mean it's just a bare wood bowl???   Ewwwww"

It's funny, as I think about it... .what DO we coat our stuff with?  As was pointed out above "Bug squeezins"...... What is it "Urisho" that is concentrated pure poison ivy juice?  Heck, I have wood spoons in my drawer I've used for years and never re-coated with anything.


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## Wildman

Same here have wooden spoons in the draw with no finish. Probably unfinished when bought too. Gets washed in the sink, with hot soapy water after every use.  Made a coffee scoop, not sure what kind of wood anymore now black as can be.  It stays in the coffee container until needed. Pretty sure scoop has been washed same way as wood spoons. 

Made an ugly saltshaker with metal cap, rubber bung, made a mistake when brought in the house so oil varnish finish could cure.   Wife saw it washed in hot soapy water. Still have that bad boy but never have used it. I have not made anymore salt & pepper shakers.


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## jttheclockman

I am not going to jump in on what is safe or not because we all have different immune systems and thresholds. The article referenced alot is the one posted by someone The Folly of Food-Safe Finishes 
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/features/finish3.html

Bob Flexner is one of the gurus in finishing world as was Russ. 

I will say using walnut oil is a bad idea. There are proven cases that nut oils of many kinds will cause reactions in many. I will also say most people use mineral oil. I will also say Shellac has been used widely also because this is the very thing that they put on apples but also remember the contents is dilluted. 

The thing that concerns me when dealing with items that come in contact with food and finishing these items is the abuse they will take. Ed mentioned sticking in a dishwasher. Wood and water don't mix. I worry about bits of finish chipping off and getting consumed. I will not make any items that come in contact directly with food. I don't need the hassles of lawsuits in this sue happy nation of ours. As far as making bowls and things they are only decorations and then again you have to tell people about the use of exotic woods. Then again these are all sealed in lacquer. 

It might have helped if you told us what it is you are making also. Good luck.


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