# Woodpeckers Pen Mill for Christmas?



## leehljp (Nov 28, 2018)

Well, it looks like Woodpeckers is getting into pen tool making.

Carbide Insert Pen Mill!

https://www.woodpeck.com/ultra-shea...90144283&_bta_c=l2cms5p73i8f6omhhnlqv6fdbisyb

Even if I had one, I would probably still use my Rick Harrell Sanding Pen Mill 99% of the time. I have had too many bites with carbide pen mills on end grain. Still the whole list of pen mill bits looks very interesting. The only thing is that they come with Woodpeckers' cost. Some of you might enjoy this.


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## TonyL (Nov 28, 2018)

They make some chisels too. I also prefer Rick's jig.


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## gtriever (Nov 28, 2018)

Hmmm... the reamers do look like they could be handy, but as Hank said, there is that Woodpecker pricing.


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## rd_ab_penman (Nov 28, 2018)

Disc sander would work better.
Much cheaper too.

Les


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## Charlie_W (Nov 28, 2018)

I would say they have priced this item so high that they probably will not sell many at all. You wonder what amount the manufacturer got paid to produce it and how much is mark-up
In looking at it, all I see is a dead straight scraper. Why not angle the cutter to where it is almost to the bevel and then give it a few degrees of twist so it slices?....Hmmm.....probably cost prohibitive.

Yup, disc sander/ Rick’s sanding jig or sand radially on the lathe.


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## jxdubbs (Dec 2, 2018)

I have the pen turning size carbide tools. There awesome. I'd definitely have this on my Christmas list!

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## Herb G (Dec 3, 2018)

As someone who has mangled many a pen blank tube from using a pen mill, I prefer Rick's sanding jig hands down.


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## BW Design Works (Dec 3, 2018)

While I won’t be buying one since I have all the sizes I need I don’t think that the price is high for what you get. If you price out the large set it’s not much more than why you would pay for a generic set. I’m sure the quality of these are much better. Just my 2 cents [emoji3]


Sent from my iPhone using Penturners.org mobile app


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## Swagopenturner (Dec 3, 2018)

Everything I have ever seen made by Woodpeckers is always of the highest quality and extremely precise.  I wonder if the reamers would fit the poor quality foreign brass tubes, since they are rarely accurately sized.
Woodpeckers is very proud of their tools and their prices reflect that.  Probably not going to be a very big seller, but I would love to have a set.


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## pturley (Dec 6, 2018)

I am in product development at Woodpeckers.  I am the designer of this tool. 

Any questions, please ask (via P/M if you prefer).

Sincerely,
Paul E. Turley


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## TonyL (Dec 6, 2018)

> I am in product development at Woodpeckers. I am the designer of this tool.



Nicely designed.


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## pturley (Dec 6, 2018)

TonyL said:


> Nicely designed.



Look for more Pen turning tools in the future!

And, thank you.

Sincerely,
Paul E. Turley


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## Brian G (Dec 6, 2018)

If you designed a version with a 1/4" hex quick connect for use in a hand drill, I'd be more than happy to volunteer to test it.  :wink::biggrin:

The first vendor that adapts that concept to a pen mill will get an order from me.  I don't like using a pen mill in a drill press; there's no "feel" and I think, unfortunately, the "press" part of drill press causes problems.

I do use a sanding jig for problem/fragile material, but overall I prefer a *sharp* pen mill.  I speculate that most of the problems people have with using pen mills is that they (the pen mill) are dull or improperly sharpened, which causes the need for more pressure, and more pressure means more disasters.


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## pturley (Dec 6, 2018)

As with carbide turning tools, with this pen mill, you need decent speed (~700rpm) and a light touch.

With a hand drill, using a standard square blank and vice, the variable cut lengths at the corners are enough to imperceptibly push your hand away from the cut, sometimes leaving an uneven surface.  Particularly in very hard woods, Acrylic or Alumilite blanks.  
The drill press allows for more mechanical advantage, allowing more controlled pressure towards the cut.  (As with any tool, there is a bit of learning curve to get the best results.)

That said, we have milled dozens of blanks on the same inserts and haven't managed to wear one out yet. 
Quoting Joe (at Berea):  "You sure aren't going to sell a lot of carbide with these!"


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## TonyL (Dec 6, 2018)

> Look for more Pen turning tools in the future!


 
I am a sanding jig guy, but I own several WP products and like them all. I think I also met you at last year's WW show in Atlanta.

How about "universal" drill stop collar to place on drill bits from 8mm to 15mms

I don't know how to engineering it,  but I would want one collar to accommodate range above.

Presently, I use tape and don't like it.


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## jxdubbs (Dec 6, 2018)

TonyL said:


> > Look for more Pen turning tools in the future!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That a Good idea if someone could do it.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## jxdubbs (Dec 6, 2018)

pturley said:


> I am in product development at Woodpeckers.  I am the designer of this tool.
> 
> Any questions, please ask (via P/M if you prefer).
> 
> ...


You did a fantastic job. I definitely have this on my list to get!

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## Woodchipper (Dec 6, 2018)

Paul, my father was an engineer and my son is a senior product engineer so I know what goes into designing and manufacturing something like that pen mill. My complements.


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## leehljp (Dec 11, 2018)

pturley said:


> I am in product development at Woodpeckers.  I am the designer of this tool.
> 
> Any questions, please ask (via P/M if you prefer).
> 
> ...



Paul,
I will ask. I am persnickety about sharp tools and I have (2) 4 bladed carbide end mills that I have not used in nearly 10 years. And both had been sent out for sharpening by a reputable sharpener. They did OK after sharpening, however, I found the sanding mill to be far more effective with end grain than carbide blades.

With that said and also knowing the quality of WP, I don't fully understand the decision of WP to make another "bladed mill" for end grain, even if it is WP. From my experience, Sanding mill get far better results. Does the WP mill have something that is light years ahead of other carbide mills. I know you have all the tube sizes; I get that and I have those also, but in the end it comes down to the cutter on end grain - in which sanding does better.

Where does WP stand out in this situation as opposed to a sanding mill?

I am not knocking WP quality. My only complaint for WP overall is that the tools are too nice to leave on the table and look better framed - to the point I am afraid to use them because I might scratch them. :wink:


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## pturley (Dec 12, 2018)

Hank,
    I'll have to apologize!  I am wary to enter into the "sanding vs. barrel trimmer" debate. 

    That said, when we set out to make a carbide insert pen mill, our objective was to produce the *VERY BEST POSSIBLE* pen mill we could design and manufacture, using the best materials :usflag: we could select, using the tools we have available to us. 
(Which in terms of manufacturing capability here at Woodpeckers, is quite considerable!)

    If at some point we opt to produce a PEN TURNING sanding jig, that same design objective will be observed.

    As for results, please see Kurt Hertzog's review article in this month's (Dec 2018) issue of _More Woodturning Magazine_. 

https://www.morewoodturningmagazine.com/magazine-list.php



Sincerely,
Paul E. Turley


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## leehljp (Dec 12, 2018)

pturley said:


> Hank,
> I'll have to apologize!  I am wary to enter into the "sanding vs. barrel trimmer" debate.
> 
> That said, when we set out to make a carbide insert pen mill, our objective was to produce the *VERY BEST POSSIBLE* pen mill we could design and manufacture, using the best materials :usflag: we could select, using the tools we have available to us.
> ...



Thanks Paul, for the quick response.

I never doubt the quality of WP products at all. I also didn't realize that there is a "debate" over one versus the other. It has been my experience . . . and from those that have sanders that used blades previously, there has been no contest.

I do realize that you are using quality carbide inserts. Having lived overseas (Japan) for 25+ years, sharpening blades by masters was something I got to see first hand. And I learned to sharpen HSS tools to the point that I have not yet seen a carbide insert that gets as sharp as a fine tuned and honed HSS. 

Don't get me wrong, I recommend carbide inserts to those who do not have a good sharpening system or who do not have the considerable experience in sharpening tools. 

I love using scrapers, and carbide inserts are for most basic purposes - scrapers, . . . and scrapers  usually don't do well on end grain, unless with very light touch and extremely sharp blades. THIS was my surprise with the WP end grain pen mill. I do believe I would rather have a carbide insert pen mill over a standard carbide blade pen mill. Progress brings new things and I certainly look forward to seeing how this works out, and I hope it does.

I will have to read Hertzog's article. Thanks for posting the links.

A LINK for you:
http://giantcypress.net/post/23159548132/this-is-the-full-version-of-the-video-created-by

As an engineer, I thought you might enjoy this old youtube post from Japan. How .01mm change in cap placement on a hand plane can change the cut drastically


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## Dan Masshardt (Dec 16, 2018)

I couldn't resist giving this tool a try.  I've not given it a full testing yet, but I did a video with some of my initial thoughts about the product.  

https://youtu.be/knIN7Lcrr1g


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## jttheclockman (Dec 16, 2018)

Dan Masshardt said:


> I couldn't resist giving this tool a try.  I've not given it a full testing yet, but I did a video with some of my initial thoughts about the product.
> 
> https://youtu.be/knIN7Lcrr1g




Good to see you Dan Miss you here. Nice write up of the mill. I think as mentioned it is a tool that someone tried to build a better mousetrap. I always liked the old style 4 cutter head carbide mills that someone here was converting from the steel to carbide but no longer do this. I use my mill more on my braiding blanks such as copper and brass and stainless because to sand that stuff down you need metal paper if doing on a lathe. This would be better with 4 heads and not 2 and maybe less aggressive or who knows maybe even more aggressive. Maybe those new chamfered carbide cutters would be a better choice to use. Again just spitballing it here. I will not be buying this for sure because as others said not only the price but there are better options. 

My carbide cutter I now can sharpen being I use the Trend diamond card system and they will put life back into them for sure. Basically like sharpening a router bit.


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## leehljp (Dec 16, 2018)

Dan Masshardt said:


> I couldn't resist giving this tool a try.  I've not given it a full testing yet, but I did a video with some of my initial thoughts about the product.
> 
> https://youtu.be/knIN7Lcrr1g



Great video, Dan.

ON the pine, As Russ Fairfield used to say, scrapers are not as good on soft wood as a skew is. A carbide insert cuts as a scraper in this situation. 

I think you said that you did not do that on the DP. In all probability, a properly locked down/clamped blank and with higher DP speeds than available on a hand held drill, and a slower controlled feed with a hand crank on the DP , I think the carbide cutters will do a better a much better job on the pine. 

That said, I did use hand held cutting also, until I got the sanding mill. 

The Woodpecker mill is most certainly a higher quality and I believe it will work well.


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## Dan Masshardt (Dec 16, 2018)

Thanks Hank - I have no doubt that you are right that a more controlled speed and holding method would likely yield better results.  

I was kind of comparing to how I'm used to going about things.  No doubt this new tool will require some adjustments.



leehljp said:


> Dan Masshardt said:
> 
> 
> > I couldn't resist giving this tool a try.  I've not given it a full testing yet, but I did a video with some of my initial thoughts about the product.
> ...


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## pturley (Dec 17, 2018)

Dan,
   Be very careful when using a Craft Supplies USA reamers with this mill head. 

The Woodpecker's reamers include the small shoulder diameter between the shaft diameter and the pilot.  This acts as a stop to prevent the pilot diameter from sitting on the inside corner of the carbide inserts.  These corners are very sharp and can be somewhat fragile.

I look forward to more first hand feedback on the design.

Sincerely,
Paul E. Turley


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## Dan Masshardt (Dec 17, 2018)

Paul - thanks for the explanation for the reason for that little shoulder.  I'm aware that carbide can be somewhat fragile in that way.  

I think I'll add a note to that regard on my video too - so again, thank you.

Also, I appreciate you taking the time to share here! 

Since Woodpeckers is getting more involved in the Pen turning world, you might want to check out a couple of the bigger pen turning facebook groups as well.  



pturley said:


> Dan,
> Be very careful when using a Craft Supplies USA reamers with this mill head.
> 
> The Woodpecker's reamers include the small shoulder diameter between the shaft diameter and the pilot.  This acts as a stop to prevent the pilot diameter from sitting on the inside corner of the carbide inserts.  These corners are very sharp and can be somewhat fragile.
> ...


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