# Dust Control Recommendations



## TonyL (Sep 14, 2014)

Despite the shop vacs, goggles, organic vapor mask and face shield, I am think about a DC. I should also probably where all of the stuff above .

I understand that I wil still have to wear the stuff, but I have the budget for one, so I might has well look into it. Here is my set-up/situation:



I only make pens. Over 95% of the time, I make PR, acrylic, non-wood types.
I make about 4 to 10 a week.
I have a lathe, 10 in miter saw, 10 in portable table saw, and sanding attachment for my lathe (but basically use a barrel trimmer).
I probably use my TS, once a month, for some segmenting.
Most of the dust is produced when using my lathe. I do have the PSI magnetic DC attachment and do use it all of the time. It is connected my 6 HP Rigid SV.
My shop is 170 sq feet with 9 foot ceilings.

What do you think?

Thanks for reading.


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## JasonC (Sep 14, 2014)

I have a Jet DC1100VX, I think. Love it, but I'd like to get a remote on/off for it.

I have a TS, router table, drill press, and lathe all plumbed.

When I want to use the band saw (bench top), oscillating spindle, or miter saw I connect them as needed. 

I still use the shop vac with my Festool sander. 

High CFM from the DC is nice to have. I wondered if the Jet would be too much but I can add more tools and still be good.


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## Curly (Sep 14, 2014)

I would first suggest you read Bill Pentz's site to better understand the dust problems and how to go about dealing with it. There is also a Dust Collection section of the Woodwork Forums in Australia with a lot of information. If you aren't handy and want a turn key solution, all be it not cheap, look at the Clear Vue cyclones. If you can put the collector outside, even better and that will let you go with a cheaper solution if you wish.


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## sbell111 (Sep 15, 2014)

We have a 2hp HF dust collector in our shop (and in Cathy's dad's shop). It sucks well and wasn't very expensive. It's normally priced at $249 but is very frequently on sale for $209, which makes it something like $169 after the coupon.  When we bought our collectors, HF was selling 0.5 micron canister conversion kit for another hundred bucks or so, so we bought two.  They work very well.  Unfortunately, HF doesn't sell the canister conversion kits any more.  I noticed that PSI offers conversion kits with 1 micron canisters for $239.  That's significantly more expensive then we paid, but still the less expensive scenario for a full sized canister-equipped dust collector.

A future project is to add a 'cone' like Jet's vortex cone to my dust collector, but I haven't gotten around to buying a cheapo wok and installing it.  

We use 4" PVC runners and dropdowns ('dropups' in our home shop) terminated with blast gates at each machine and then the appropiately sized flexi tube to the machines themselves.


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## raar25 (Sep 15, 2014)

You can get a 1 micron bag from Rockler to fit on the HF 2 hp dust collector. This is what I use along with some garbage can-2 stage chip set ups also from rockler and it works pretty nice.  They sell a kit you use to convert a garbage can into a two stage vortex chip collector.  I find it picks up most of the fine dust and alot of the big chips. As long as I am not lazy and skip moving the drop to my work the dust is collected pretty well.  I use galvanized steel pipe and the farthest drop is aprox 45 ft from the dust collector.


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## Cmiles1985 (Sep 15, 2014)

Hi Tony,
I found a Shopsmith DC3300 awhile back on CL. The price was right (I asked about it on here as well), so I dove in! A month or so later, it decided it didn't like me. The motor would start, but wouldn't turn. I had to do a minor tune up (only cost was time), and it sucks like a champ! As indicated by the model number, it's a 330 cfm, so it isn't a major dust collector. Shopsmith offers different bonnets for better filtration (down to one micron I believe). Reviews indicate that the older models are much better. I just connected it to a PSI magnetic hood and I'm liking it more. 
FWIW, I find it wonderful for a small shop.


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## Jim Burr (Sep 15, 2014)

What research have you done already?

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f30/anyone-own-dust-extractor-123110/
http://www.penturners.org/forum/f14/safety-question-regarding-acrylic-fumes-121484/
http://www.penturners.org/forum/f30/all-worth-space-$$$-health-112803/
http://www.penturners.org/forum/f18/dust-collection-101664/
http://www.penturners.org/forum/f18/dust-collection-101664/

It sounds like you're not using anything right now?


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## sbell111 (Sep 15, 2014)

Jim Burr said:


> It sounds like you're not using anything right now?


If memory serves, Tony uses his shopvac as a lathe dust collector right now.


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## TonyL (Sep 15, 2014)

*Research.*



Jim Burr said:


> What research have you done already?
> 
> http://www.penturners.org/forum/f30/anyone-own-dust-extractor-123110/
> http://www.penturners.org/forum/f14/safety-question-regarding-acrylic-fumes-121484/
> ...



Limited, practically none.

Thanks for the links!

Using a large shop vac with a PSI hood.


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## Jim Burr (Sep 15, 2014)

If I read you right...stop turning until you get the proper impact and filtration. Maybe you are one of those "Mommy Said" people that doesn't care...I certainly hope not. Ever taken an ebony blank in the shield at 3200 rpm? That's why I wear what I do. Ever withdraw life support from a 63 year old wood worker who talked to me for hours before he died about "I wish I'd known this stuff would killed me"? And you have the nerve to ask me why I get pissed off at some of you people? 
As kindly as I can put it...do it right or shut it off.
Now if I'm not reading you right...what is your version of "practically none" so we can get you educated and outfitted correctly?


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## smik (Sep 15, 2014)

TonyL said:


> Despite the shop vacs, goggles, organic vapor mask and face shield, I am think about a DC. I should also probably where all of the stuff above .
> 
> I understand that I wil still have to wear the stuff, but I have the budget for one, so I might has well look into it. Here is my set-up/situation:
> 
> ...


This may be of interest to you also.

Woodwookers, Craftsmen, and shop air quality


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## sbell111 (Sep 15, 2014)

Jim Burr said:


> If I read you right...stop turning until you get the proper impact and filtration. Maybe you are one of those "Mommy Said" people that doesn't care...I certainly hope not. Ever taken an ebony blank in the shield at 3200 rpm? That's why I wear what I do. Ever withdraw life support from a 63 year old wood worker who talked to me for hours before he died about "I wish I'd known this stuff would killed me"? And you have the nerve to ask me why I get pissed off at some of you people?
> As kindly as I can put it...do it right or shut it off.
> Now if I'm not reading you right...what is your version of "practically none" so we can get you educated and outfitted correctly?



Did you not read his initial post?  He currently uses a shopvac for dust collection as well as a shield, goggles and mask.  

His 'practically none' comment was in response to your 'what research have you done' question.  You see, he didn't realize that that was a throwaway question just so you could give him a list of topics that you feel that he should have read prior to wasting your time with an honest question.


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## Lenny (Sep 15, 2014)

Tony, early on, when I decided to move my turning area from the shop to my basement, I bought a Delta 1 1/2 HP with two 6" inlets. While right now I only use one it's nice to know I could run another line in the future. It will run on 110 or 220 should I ever want to convert it. Most importantly it has a .5 micron bag to catch the really small (dangerous) particles. I wouldn't want to turn without it! Someday I hope to add the Wynn canister filter. I also added a remote control to turn it off and on from the lathe. Good luck!


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## TonyL (Sep 15, 2014)

Thanks for the advice all!

I am good Jim....lots to consider and practice.  Your advice and guidance is very much appreciated.


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## PenPal (Sep 15, 2014)

Tony, my recent take on my VL150 using a simple draught fan from the air conditioning industry above vented to atmosphere and where it belongs IMHO and below to a very strong dedicated vac with mid extraction.

Kind regards Peter.


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## BayouPenturner (Sep 15, 2014)

Tony, I have a HF 2hp unit, I stripped the unit down to the fan housing, placed it outside the shop, I have a 4" hose to both lathes steps rated by gates to select which lathe I am using.  The collector goes thru a seperator then the discharge goes to atmosphere.  The system is extremely efficient using a dust collection hood at the lathe while turning.  I find that it captures most of the concerning dust particles and removes the CA fumes so well there is no order detectable.  I do have a Airshield hood the at I use also.  I checked the discharge of the collector when sucking up debris on the bench I can not see any discharging from the dc vent.  I hope this helps.  The neighbors are about 300' from the shop area, if I where in a small neighborhood this configuration may be an issue.  good luck.


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## sbell111 (Sep 16, 2014)

Like Lenny, we recently added a remote control for our DC.  I like that I don't have to go all the way across the shop and behind some junk to turn on the machine.  My thinking is that by making it easier to use, we will never, ever neglect to turn it on because we are just using a tool for a moment.

Regarding venting to the outside, this plan didn't work for us as our shop is air conditioned.  If we vented to the outside, then we would have to replace that air in the shop with the hot, humid stuff that's outside here.

In our new shop, I am considering building a closet for the dust collector and compressor to live in so that the noise can be isolated some.


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## Curly (Sep 16, 2014)

sbell111 said:


> In our new shop, I am considering building a closet for the dust collector and compressor to live in so that the noise can be isolated some.



Consider separating the closet into two isolated parts so the dust leaking or spilled from the dusty does't get sucked up by the air compressor. It'll last longer if it has clean air.


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## sbell111 (Sep 16, 2014)

Curly said:


> sbell111 said:
> 
> 
> > In our new shop, I am considering building a closet for the dust collector and compressor to live in so that the noise can be isolated some.
> ...


Good thinking.  While our dust collector doesn't noticibly leak dust, it most certainly leaks stuff smaller than the 1/2 micron rating of the cartridge.  Two adjacent closets it is.

As I think about it, I may actually move the dust collector out of the main shop.  Our new shop will be in a 30'x50' building with a 10' eave extension along a long end.  The first 20' feet of that 'lean to' is a closed in shed while the rest is open.  I may move the compressor out of the main building and into the outside shed.  I won't move the dust collector out there as the two spaces won't share the same air space (the main building will be air conditioned but the shed will not.)


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## MesquiteMan (Sep 16, 2014)

Wood dust will kill you.  I know for a fact as it killed my 66 year old dad who was the epitome of good health.  Vegetarian, never smoked or drank a day in his life, avid cyclist riding 12,000 miles per year.  However, he was a carpenter by trade and exposed to a lot of plywood sawdust.  The only known like to his type of cancer is sawdust.

Don't cheap out.  Get the best setup you can afford.  If you can't afford it, sell some tools or something!  Remember, it is not about chip collection, it is about dust collection.  The super fine dust is what kills you, not the chips.  The best filtration I have found is .5 microns.  Don't go any higher.  Just not worth it.

If you want the best option, consider a cyclone.  I have a ClearVue as mentioned above.  The biggest reason is they do not loose efficiency as they get close to needing to be emptied.  The have the same CFM when just emptied to needing to empty.  A bag will not give you that.  As they become loaded with dust, the CFM drops quickly.

If you don't want to spend the money on a cyclone, at least get a good quality canister filter for your regular collector.  A canister filter has much more surface area of filtration, thus giving you longer run time at best efficiency.  Personally, if I was outfitting a regular system with a canister, I would forget about PSI or the others and go directly to the experts.  Wynn Environmental does nothing but filtration and they have a canister conversion for a standard DC.  You can find it here:  Filter Kits for Woodworking Dust Collectors | Wynn Environmental


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## Curly (Sep 16, 2014)

To add a touch to Curtis's endorsement of the Wynn filters over the canisters on the import dusty's. There is a filter cleaning company near me that I took a number of used Donaldson Torit filters (another industrial filter maker) that I got from work to be cleaned for my eventual use. The owner said they would not clean the "hobby" filters because they are so cheaply made they fall apart when he tries. If you are going to spend the money on that kind of setup use the Wynn filters because they are made for industry and will stand up.

If you want to really find out what you have for dust in your shop now and how changes improve or reduce your shop environment, consider getting your own air quality tester like one of the Dylos units.


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## sbell111 (Sep 16, 2014)

Here's a link to the mod to add a Jet vortex-like cone to our dust collectors.  This mod is easy, inexpensive, and greatly improves the efficiency of a canister-based dust collector.


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## sbell111 (Sep 16, 2014)

Curly said:


> If you want to really find out what you have for dust in your shop now and how changes improve or reduce your shop environment, consider getting your own air quality tester like one of the Dylos units.


I have a super non-scientific air quality tester.  It is my bright red metallic Cadillac Allante that lives in my garage/shop.  My thought is that if it doesn't get dusty, then my dust collection is pretty good.  I guess that I'll have to come up with a different plan when we move into the new shop.


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## Shock me (Sep 19, 2014)

Jim Burr said:


> If I read you right...stop turning until you get the proper impact and filtration. Maybe you are one of those "Mommy Said" people that doesn't care...I certainly hope not. Ever taken an ebony blank in the shield at 3200 rpm? That's why I wear what I do. Ever withdraw life support from a 63 year old wood worker who talked to me for hours before he died about "I wish I'd known this stuff would killed me"? And you have the nerve to ask me why I get pissed off at some of you people?
> As kindly as I can put it...do it right or shut it off.
> Now if I'm not reading you right...what is your version of "practically none" so we can get you educated and outfitted correctly?



I tried doing a search for rudeness, but apparently the search engine doesn't know about rudeness. Most of us do.


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## TonyL (Sep 19, 2014)

_"I tried doing a search for rudeness, but apparently the search engine doesn't know about rudeness. Most of us do."_

I am writing this with a big smile and a kind heart....

That was very funny Shock Me (and love the Yogi Berra quote. I am a Yankee fan, attended Fordham, in the Bronx, on a baseball scholarship), and tried-out for the Yankees several times...all great experiences)

Everyone has their own way of making a point. Despite the delivery, I respect and appreciate the passion behind Jim's advice. Now, I am no naive idiot and I don't need any more Christmas cards, but I can only get offended if I allow someone to offend me. I choose instead to focus on the seeds of wisdom within a post. I am not going to deprive myself of anyone's wisdom and experience because I don't like the way it is delivered (especially in an email).  If 95% or more of the folks here were in my neck of he woods, I would invite them to be a guest in my home, and introduce them to my family. I have already done so several times within 5 months that I have been turning pens. I am also sure that I have not been as thoughtful as I could have been in my replies...although I do my best to be.

Have a great one all, remember there are men and women that have gave their lives and are risking their lives to protect our freedom (to enjoy WW, and freely exchange our experiences). I try very hard not to let that be in vain.

Have a blessed day. Every breathe is a gift.

PS. I have responded to some in private messages when I didn't understand their intentions.

Peace!


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## jfoh (Sep 20, 2014)

I have abig  Powermatic dust collector that has been upgraded with a 1 micron filter. Further I moved the collector outside the shop proper and enclosed it in its own closet type box. Cut down the noise by 90%. I have a air return from the collector to my shop area so I am not venting heated or A/C all the time. The return is a tunnel type box which has a series of furnace filters with a cloth coverings . These filter the return air and catch an amazing amount of ultra fine dust. My remote control works well even with the collector outside my shop. 

Point is to reduce noise and dust as much as you can. Better to make a closed loop type system to save heat. And never miss a chance to filter return air when ever you can. No such thing as too clean. I also have a ceiling mounted Delta air filter cleaner to catch what does not get picked up by the collector. Brand of collector is not as important as the way you use it. And you never can have too much collector. So if you can afford a 1150 or 1600  do not settle for a 550 - 650.


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## TonyL (Sep 20, 2014)

Great point! Thanks! I need to get something that I can hang from the ceiling. I was wondering if the Rikons are decent given my needs.


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## TonyL (Sep 21, 2014)

*Thank you Jim*



Jim Burr said:


> What research have you done already?
> 
> http://www.penturners.org/forum/f30/anyone-own-dust-extractor-123110/
> http://www.penturners.org/forum/f14/safety-question-regarding-acrylic-fumes-121484/
> ...




These were helpful links!

Enjoy the rest of the weekend!


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## sbell111 (Sep 22, 2014)

TonyL said:


> Great point! Thanks! I need to get something that I can hang from the ceiling. I was wondering if the Rikons are decent given my needs.



I don't have any experience with the Rikon air cleaners as ours is a Jet.  It seems to do a great job at keeping the shop air breathable.  So much so that I frequently forget to mention it when talking about dust control, perhaps I therefore give my DC too much credit.  That being said, I don't believe that I will buy another one of these as it seems that it would be pretty simple to just build one.  It is basically just a box with an AC blower, some filters, a 3-speed switch, and a timer.

Building my own will correct the two problems that I have with my Jet.  First, the filters are not a standard size.  They are super close, but not close enough to allow me to just pop into Home Depot and grab a filter.  Instead, I pay considerably more and have them shipped to me.

The second thing that bugs me is it's propritary electronics.  I had to replace the main board on mine not too long ago.  Doing so allowed me to extend the old machine's life, but it was much more costly and much bigger of a hassle than it would have been to replace a standardized switch or timer.


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## TonyL (Sep 22, 2014)

Thank you Steve.


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## dogcatcher (Sep 22, 2014)

I have started outfitting a second shop, I picked up a Rikon lathe and drill press, both have been trouble free.  I also have a Rikon 10" bandsaw, in my main shop, I don't have any complaints with it either.  I don't think you can go wrong with the Rikon brand.


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## mikespenturningz (Sep 22, 2014)

I have a 2hp rikon. It works great and it is all that I use.


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## TonyL (Sep 23, 2014)

It looks like I will be going with a Jet, Rikon or Shop Fox - both the hang on the ceiling type and the upright canister filter. I will also replace the stock filter with something 1 micron or less. Externally venting is not an option for me, but I can clearly see its merits.
I thought this was going to easy considering  I am only looking to collect dust from my lathe which is only used to make pens. I am sure it is easy for someone with more experience. Thank you for sharing your advice and experience with me.


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## sbell111 (Sep 23, 2014)

For the single machine thrown-together solution, I give you the shopvac-traffic cone hack.  (I'd use a larger bucket from Home Depot and upgrade the shopvac's filter to HEPA.  Also, I would retain the air cleaner previously discussed.)


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## Gethenet (Oct 26, 2014)

sbell111 said:


> Jim Burr said:
> 
> 
> > If I read you right...stop turning until you get the proper impact and filtration. Maybe you are one of those "Mommy Said" people that doesn't care...I certainly hope not. Ever taken an ebony blank in the shield at 3200 rpm? That's why I wear what I do. Ever withdraw life support from a 63 year old wood worker who talked to me for hours before he died about "I wish I'd known this stuff would killed me"? And you have the nerve to ask me why I get pissed off at some of you people?
> ...




Some people just read what they want to see......


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## TonyL (Oct 26, 2014)

I wound-up buying a shop fox 1.5 hp just for my lathe and a shop vac air fillter..if that doesn't "work", I  will get the Jet. I also wear a organic vaopr mask. We will see.


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