# Bow making!!



## GouletPens (Mar 13, 2009)

I've had a bit of time the last couple of days, which is never good. The weather here in VA has been crazy....we set a record low temp and record high temp in the same week...it was 80 degrees this past weekend, and now it's snowing outside. WTF? Anyway, when it was nice I got the itch to do 'outdoor activities'. I'm definitely going to be bulding a horseshoe pit, but I also thought about when I was a kid and did archery. I have great land for it and it was a blast when I was young. :rotfl:

I surfed Craigslist and only came across compound hunting bows and whatnot, for a bit more than I wanted to spend. Then it hit me. Make one out of wood, duh!!! People used wood bows for thousands of years!! :hypnotized:So I've been Googling and YouTubing all over the place about how to make different types of bows: reflex deflex, recurve, English longbow, flatbows, selfbows, woodlam, fiberglass backed, you name it. I finally decided to start small and I'm making a flatbow out of red oak with an East Indian Rosewood riser handle. I built myself a tillering stand and I'm in the process of doing the initial shaping of the body. I'm excited about it, and it's dirt cheap to make, only labor. The arrows are going to cost twice the cost of the bow when all is said and done.

I'll post pictures once I have something picture worthy, but for anyone who has some land, has more time than money, and wants to try something different, I suggest giving bows a look see.:rotfl:


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## Rifleman1776 (Mar 13, 2009)

Primitive bow making is becoming very popular. I'm sure you have done some internet searching on the subject and already found that out. Your choice of red oak strikes me as curious though, not the most 'flexy' of woods. Ash, Osage Orange a/k/a Bois d'arc, and some others are very popular for bows. Do show some pictures as you progress with this project.


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## dgscott (Mar 13, 2009)

While you're at it, get a copy of "Agincourt" by Bernard Cromwell. A loook into the life of a 15th century archer along with what he considers the perfect bow. Good reading.


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## babyblues (Mar 13, 2009)

That is way cool!!!!  I have all three volumes of the Bowyer's Bible and man is that stuff cool.  If you want a good resource for making your own bow, check those out.  

Being in Virginia, you might want to start out with a piece of hickory.  I have some white ash that I want to make a self bow out of in my basement.  I also have some deer leg tendons and hide glue for the sinew backing along with some waxed dakron thread for the bowstring.  This kind of stuff fascinates me.


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## GaryMadore (Mar 13, 2009)

Brian,

If you were a Native in the Pacific-Northwest (Pacific Southwest for we Canucks) you might have made your bow from Vine Maple.

I'm thinkin', though, that you're considering something more elaborate than a simple bent stick..... I've seen some laminated recurves and they are, in a word, breathtaking.

I look forward to following your progress - and hope to be inspired to begin my own.

Cheers!

Gary


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## GouletPens (Mar 13, 2009)

My choice of oak is mainly b/c of convenience and price. It won't make the best bow, but I've read its a good wood to use since the first one will probably be a screw up anyway:tongue: You can use a lot of different woods, I even read a guy that uses Ipe with a bamboo backing. Ipe is DEFINITELY less flexible than oak! If it's less flexible, you just make in thinner, that's all. Hickory would work, Ash would be better. I didn't have any of those on hand, and I kinda live in the sticks so I used what I had. I just want to get the process down first before I really get to using the better woods. I'm also looking at doing fiberglass backing. I saw a YouTube video of a guy that used an ash body, laminated the belly with redwood burl veneer, then covered it in fiberglass sheet/resin. I thought that was way cool, and I'm going to have to try that within my next couple of bows. 

It's really not that complicated to make a bow. You need the right type of wood, a little time, and a homemade tillering jig. That's about it.


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## Russianwolf (Mar 13, 2009)

Brian Search for Bow Stave on ebay and you should get some hits for blanks that are glued up of better woods. If I recall they aren't too procey yet either.


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## GouletPens (Mar 13, 2009)

Russianwolf said:


> Brian Search for Bow Stave on ebay and you should get some hits for blanks that are glued up of better woods. If I recall they aren't too procey yet either.


 Thank you...I'll definitely look into that...as long as they have my size!! I'm building the bow for myself, and I have HUUUUUUUGE arms. I'm only 6'2" but my arm span is 6'9", that's right. I have a span 7" longer than my height (they're supposed to be equal). That gives me a ridiculous 34" draw, which exceeds any premade bow I've ever seen. I'm not even sure if I'll be able to find arrows long enough for me, I might have to make those as well. That's part of why I want to build my own bow, but who knows? I think if you're making a flatbow, it can be a little shorter than a traditional longbow. I'll give ebay a looksee (part of the reason I didn't want to buy a stave too was that I was just too excited to wait!!!).


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## dasimm (Mar 13, 2009)

I'm envious... Wish I had the time and the land. Love archery.

My father bought me my first Bear Laminate Recurve when I was a young man. I thought I had died and gone to heaven that Christmas.

It still sits in my office beside my desk so I can look at it every day - a bit worn and tattered but still as beautiful as the day I first held it.


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## GouletPens (Mar 13, 2009)

dasimm said:


> I'm envious... Wish I had the time and the land. Love archery.
> 
> My father bought me my first Bear Laminate Recurve when I was a young man. I thought I had died and gone to heaven that Christmas.
> 
> It still sits in my office beside my desk so I can look at it every day - a bit worn and tattered but still as beautiful as the day I first held it.


 Where there's a will, there's a way....you could set up a target in your hallway or something :wink: When I lived in an apartment when my wife and I were first married, I wanted to shoot so bad (did a ton in college). I had such an itchy trigger finger that I set up a "range" in my hallway for a BB gun (not a real gun!!!) with a catchall target. It caught all the BB's and there was never any incident, but it was totally not the same at all. I gave up on that and started turning pens. Now look where that led me!!!!


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## dasimm (Mar 13, 2009)

GouletPens said:


> I gave up on that and started turning pens. Now look where that led me!!!!



LOL - Yeah - I can certainly relate. 

We did the same when we were kids with the "hallway" ranges (basement really)... Four bored boys on a rainy day - lots of BB's and arrows and a few scraps between sibling...


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## holmqer (Mar 13, 2009)

dgscott said:


> While you're at it, get a copy of "Agincourt" by Bernard Cromwell. A loook into the life of a 15th century archer along with what he considers the perfect bow. Good reading.



You could also get the Grail series by the same author and follow English archer Thomas Hookton all over England and France.


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## babyblues (Mar 13, 2009)

GouletPens said:


> Thank you...I'll definitely look into that...as long as they have my size!! I'm building the bow for myself, and I have HUUUUUUUGE arms. I'm only 6'2" but my arm span is 6'9", that's right. I have a span 7" longer than my height (they're supposed to be equal). That gives me a ridiculous 34" draw, which exceeds any premade bow I've ever seen. I'm not even sure if I'll be able to find arrows long enough for me, I might have to make those as well. That's part of why I want to build my own bow, but who knows? I think if you're making a flatbow, it can be a little shorter than a traditional longbow. I'll give ebay a looksee (part of the reason I didn't want to buy a stave too was that I was just too excited to wait!!!).


You could use rawhide for a backing.  Sinew is better.  A sinew backing allows for a shorter bow without sacrificing power.  Native Americans used that technique to construct their shorter bows that they shot from horseback.  Sinew is simply shredded tendon.  When sinew is stretched and released, it returns greater than 70% of it's stored energy.  Wood alone only returns about 5%.  When sinew is applied to the back of a bow, it is soaked in hide glue and laid down in strips kind of like fiberglass.  When it dries, the sinew shrinks and adds a little more pop to your bow.  Sinew is very strong and thus protects the back of the bow from breaking and increases the bow's potential energy.  You could also laminate horn onto the belly of the bow.  Horn compresses better than wood and allows the bow to bend farther without breaking.  I've seen these short little horn belly bows bent literally into a U shape without breaking.  If you're short on money, I'm sure you could find some tendons from someone who might have tagged a deer or something and just dry the tendons yourself.  I'm not sure about the horn.  I'm sure your local diary farmer would notice if his steer was missing his horns, lol.


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## GaryMadore (Mar 13, 2009)

babyblues said:


> A sinew backing allows for a shorter bow without sacrificing power.
> 
> You could also laminate horn onto the belly of the bow



You also just described the bows used by the Mongols in the time of Ghengis Khan ... Nobody would argue the efficiency of that weapon.

While I acknowledge the superior science of modern bows, I prefer the "ancient" Asian style for their beauty.

Cheers!

Gary


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## MDWine (Mar 13, 2009)

*wanna make a bow?*



GouletPens said:


> . . . Then it hit me. Make one out of wood. . .



Look on the Virginia Department of Game site, they have a class for bow making!!

Here's the PDF: http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/events/documents/primitive-bow-workshop-2009.pdf

I am a volunteer instructor for DGIF, and one of the seargants took this class.  His bow was very nice...  I hear the class is pretty good.  Unfortunately, it's a little 'spendy', but you come away with quite a bit of knowledge, and a couple bows!

Good luck!!

MDW


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## wolftat (Mar 13, 2009)

babyblues said:


> You could use rawhide for a backing. Sinew is better. A sinew backing allows for a shorter bow without sacrificing power. Native Americans used that technique to construct their shorter bows that they shot from horseback. Sinew is simply shredded tendon. When sinew is stretched and released, it returns greater than 70% of it's stored energy. Wood alone only returns about 5%. When sinew is applied to the back of a bow, it is soaked in hide glue and laid down in strips kind of like fiberglass. When it dries, the sinew shrinks and adds a little more pop to your bow. Sinew is very strong and thus protects the back of the bow from breaking and increases the bow's potential energy. You could also laminate horn onto the belly of the bow. Horn compresses better than wood and allows the bow to bend farther without breaking. I've seen these short little horn belly bows bent literally into a U shape without breaking. If you're short on money, I'm sure you could find some tendons from someone who might have tagged a deer or something and just dry the tendons yourself. I'm not sure about the horn. I'm sure your local diary farmer would notice if his steer was missing his horns, lol.


 There is a product out that is called fake sinew, it has the same characteristics of the real stuff and all you have to do is unroll it from the package. It is used by many bow makers for string and is strong as could be. I believe you can get it from Tandy Leather at a reasonable price.


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## Chasper (Mar 13, 2009)

I've been making traditional bows and other primative weapons systems for several years.  Take a look at the Primative Bows page on PaleoPlanet to chat with the experts.
http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/forums/18
As someone mentioned the 3 volume Bowyers Bible series is the ultimate resource, there is now a 4th volume.
Making primative bows is probably the most advanced wookworking every done, a bow is an actual working tool made out of wood.
I prefer ash and hickory, I've also used osage, mulberry, ipe, and red cedar.  I've never heard anyone recommend red oak, I would expect it to leave too much string follow, but as you would read in the Bowyers Bible books, bows have been made out of everything imaginable.

Backings can make up for just about any kind of wood problem; rawhide and sinew have been mentioned, silk, kyvar and the other strong fiber fabrics are good, long thin strips of bamboo, or hickory also work well.  For a pure self bow with no backing a tough wood like mulberry, osage, hickory or ash and careful attention to perserving the same growth ring from end to end is important.

I haven't made a bow using stone tools only, but I did make one using hand axe, knife, and files only.  Starting with a board, arrows can be very challenging, but they aren't so difficult if you start with cane or a good straight sapling.  I've turned a lot of inserts to use in cane for attaching nocks and points.

Also check this site, I get supplies and ideas for bow making here.
http://rudderbows.com/


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## mostangrypirate (Mar 13, 2009)

Thats a great idea. I have been wanting to do a little archery with my daughter and have had the same problems as you. I built the horshoe pit 2 days ago, man I could have have almost made this post myself. Can't wait to see the finished product.


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## bobindayton (Mar 13, 2009)

I would be careful with the red oak. A number of years ago I made a replacement riser for a Jennings compound bow out of oak. It looked good but only lasted a couple shots! It broke completely in half following the grain. I made the second one out of hard maple. It is still fine after 25 years and we set it up to 75# pull testing it out.


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## GouletPens (Mar 13, 2009)

Some great advice everyone....thank you! Man, I had no idea there were so many bow folk around here...you'd think we're all wood workers or something! My bow is coming along nicely so far....I'm in the tillering stage right now. Seems to be holding up well, but I have no idea what kind of pull is going to come out of it. It's all a great experiment for me. I did as much research as I could stand, but it got to the point where I just had to start doing something!! It may very well snap in half, who the heck knows. I'm just happy to be in a warm shop on a cold snowy day:biggrin:


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## GouletPens (Mar 13, 2009)

bobindayton said:


> I would be careful with the red oak. A number of years ago I made a replacement riser for a Jennings compound bow out of oak. It looked good but only lasted a couple shots! It broke completely in half following the grain. I made the second one out of hard maple. It is still fine after 25 years and we set it up to 75# pull testing it out.


 Hmm...maybe I should back it with fiberglass? I bet that would fix my problem completely. I'm about 10 minutes from Home Depot and I could run and get some....I almost picked it up yesterday but decided that was one too many new techniques for me to try on my first bow. I think I'll stick with the self bow this go round, and I'll do the fiberglass on the next one (or sinew...).


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## thewishman (Mar 13, 2009)

dgscott said:


> While you're at it, get a copy of "Agincourt" by Bernard Cromwell. A loook into the life of a 15th century archer along with what he considers the perfect bow. Good reading.


 
Halfway through that book - love Bernard Cornwell. 

Good luck with the bow! That sounds like an exciting project.


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## GoodTurns (Mar 13, 2009)

Jason brought a bow he recently made to our "Bubbasville" last weekend...worked real nice.  you might ask him about the building part....jthompson1995 here on IAP


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## edman2 (Mar 13, 2009)

Brian,
When you get to the arrow building part you might want to check out
www.rosecityarchery.com.  Rose City Archery still makes wooden arrows from Port Orford Cedar and can do custom work.  They also sell arrow shafts.  At one time there were 17 arrow manufactoring facilities near them and they are the only one left I understand.


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## GouletPens (Mar 13, 2009)

Alright, the bow is tillered, I have to get a pull scale to see the weight of it, but I suspect around 40 lbs or so, just off the seat of my pants. I custom shaped the handle to fit my hand....should be real nice if it works!! I'm off to Gander Mtn. to get it strung...I eventually want to learn to do it myself but for now, I'll get a pro to string it (I want to eliminate as many F-ups as possbile to give this bow a chance to work!). I'll post pics soon.


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## jthompson1995 (Mar 13, 2009)

GoodTurns said:


> Jason brought a bow he recently made to our "Bubbasville" last weekend...worked real nice.  you might ask him about the building part....jthompson1995 here on IAP



Thanks for the plug Jon.  I took a bow making class in January and made a 68" hickory flatbow that draws 55# at 26 inches.  I learned to make flemish strings as well, very simple to do; I'll never pay for a bowstring again.  This was my first bow, but definitely not my last. I'm very impressed with the power in this bow, it shoots the heaviest arrows I put on it without even flinching and get serious penetration.  I can't wait until hunting season starts. Here's some photos:

Unstrung







Strung (braced)






Almost full draw






Now I'm just trying to source some usable osage.  I was lucky and found where someone cut down an old english yew "tree" and got all of the usable wood from that (dead straight and 6-8 feet long, 3-4" diameter, very few knots).  If I do everything right, I should have enough wood to make 8-10 english yew selfbows.  After I split it and cure it, I hope to make a couple traditional english longbows. 

I'm also planning my first bamboo backed bow.  I found a perfectly straight grained piece of red oak for the belly.  I want to ebonized the oak once it's tillered and get a really distinctive look; bamboo back with the look of Irish bog oak on the belly.


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## jthompson1995 (Mar 13, 2009)

GouletPens said:


> I think if you're making a flatbow, it can be a little shorter than a traditional longbow.


 
Brian, I think you have this one a little backwards. Flatbows do not bend through the handle and so need to be longer to account for it. The rule of thumb for selfbows is to have twice the length of your draw in bending wood. That being said, a flatbow for your draw length would need to be about 80 inches long, figuring for about a foot of handle and fades which don't bend. 

A longbow bends through the handle and so you could theoretically shorten the bow to 68 inches. Just be sure that you don't draw the string past 90 degrees to the limb and you should not over tax the wood, causing it to break.


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## bitshird (Mar 13, 2009)

Brian, get some pacific Yew and make a long bow, Or if you can stand thewait, get a stave of Osage Orange put it on a piece of PVC pipe filled with water change the water everey few weeks for 6 to 8 months and get to cuttting and sanding, I have a Pony bow  same kind used by the American Indian in Texas, and there abouts, it's only 49 inches but has a 65 . pound draw for fighting horse back, it's about 25 years old, I keep it cleaned with mineral oil and it still strings and shoots, they guy that made it is Craig Winters, he's one of the better Bowyers in Texas when he's not too tipsy, he mad me some 27 inch arrows out of Cane, one has a Chryophrase point Never shot it, just the cheapo Georgetown flint, It's turned a beautiful golden brown with age, He made my son a Yew Long bow, Hickory is also a good bow stock, not as fast as Bois1darc, or Yew but durable. makes good arrows. We got snow tonight, Wednesday it was 78 degrees. Go Figure


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## el_d (Mar 14, 2009)

I used to work on Glass recurve bows with my dad when I was younger. Started this one a while back but have moved since then and dont have a place to work on it. My shop is a 8x12 porch and the bowbox would take up half. Besides I got into turning and was distracted by the lathe. 
 It's clear glass/walnut limb and the riser is also walnut/purpleheart and maple racing stripes. I Still need to finish forming the grip and tiller the thing.......


 

 

Its not really too hard just lots of work if you dont have the powertools....... Even with the powertools its alot of work.


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## ahoiberg (Mar 14, 2009)

dang, those are nice! cool thread, i can't wait to see what comes of it.


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## amosfella (Mar 14, 2009)

GouletPens said:


> Where there's a will, there's a way....you could set up a target in your hallway or something :wink: When I lived in an apartment when my wife and I were first married, I wanted to shoot so bad (did a ton in college). I had such an itchy trigger finger that I set up a "range" in my hallway for a BB gun (not a real gun!!!) with a catchall target. It caught all the BB's and there was never any incident, but it was totally not the same at all. I gave up on that and started turning pens. Now look where that led me!!!!



You should try to get some airsoft guns.  The auto electric guns are really fun.  And these guns can look perfectly real.  I have a P90, a MP5, MP7, and a propane powered SIG 226 gas  blowback that acts like a real one.  You can shoot that in the basement or anywhere.  NO neighbors calling the cops for hearing gunfire on your property either......


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## JohnU (Mar 14, 2009)

Wow, Im really glad to see others venturing in this direction.  Ive been shooting recurve for about 20 years now and switched to recurve bow hunting about 10 years ago.  I decided to try my hand at making bows and hope to start up a side business someday.  Ive been making my own arrows for years and Brian its not that hard.  I bought my supplies at www.3riversarchery.com and use my own turkey wing feathers. (they sell videos there on how to make everything from strings, arrows, and bows)  I am interested in making laminant bows and bought the bow press accessories, heat box supplies and airhose clamp about six years ago.  Unfortunately I got into turning and never went forward with the bows.  I think this is what I needed to get me going.    There is another web site called www.Stickbow.com that has a forum full of self bowyers who have answered many of my questions, incase you hit a brick wall.  Goodl Luck and cant wait to see you bow.


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## Art Fuldodger (Mar 14, 2009)

GouletPens said:


> I finally decided to start small and I'm making a flatbow out of red oak with an East Indian Rosewood riser handle.




There are a lot of people who would say that if you weren't using English Yew, there'd be no point in doing it at all. :biggrin:


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## Boomer (Mar 14, 2009)

I have seen this magazine called Primative Archer.  You might check it out.  This might be a magazine that could help you with your bow making


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