# Turning stone?



## Skie_M

Yup, you can do that on a wood lathe.

The question's come up several times, but the answer isn't in the Library and the description of methods used in the IAP Collection just doesn't cut it ... there's not enough detail to really get anybody more than marginally interested, much less actually started turning stone.


First, let's just have a very basic overview before we have the local IAP experts chime in....

Stone comes in various hardnesses.  You can use high speed steel for the softer stone, as well as carbide tools, the softer stone being Soapstone and Alabaster.  Carbide and Diamond Impregnated tools come along for the harder stones, like Marble and Granite.


It is generally recommended that you start with the softer stone and work your way to harder stone as you refine your techniques.

Softest stones:

Soapstone - This is your typical starting point. This stone is soft enough that you can carve it with a pocketknife.  High Speed Steel makes easy work of it, but you'll need to sharpen your steel tools fairly often, perhaps as often as 2 or 3 times for a single pen project.  More from our experts on this soon!

Alabaster - This is an absolutely gorgeous stone, but can be tricky to work as it can have very HARD quartz crystals embedded in it that will take the edge right off a steel tool.  Carbide is recommended if you think you'll find some quartz in there, when cutting your blanks down to size.  After you're at pen blank size, you'll be able to tell if there's any quartz left ... if there is, you don't want to turn it using hard tools.  Wet-sanding it all the way down may be the only way to work it without ripping large chunks out, and drilling may present problems as well.  If there's no apparent quartz, high carbon steel and high speed steel will work, but you'll have to sharpen your tools much more often, and take lighter cuts than with soapstone. More from our experts soon, hopefully with tips on how to deal with tricky quartz!

Marble - Another truly stunning stone to work with, but the harder the stone, the more fragile it can be to work.  High speed steel can still work here, but you may get further faster using metal cutting files and carbide cutters or diamond impregnated tool bits. More from our experts soon, hopefully with more tips and tricks concerning marble!

Granite - The hardest and trickiest stone to work with, as it's origins can combine various quartz crystals and even sedimentary rock through igneous (fiery or molten) processes.  Absolutely beautiful, and yet it can be so fragile because it's been highly compressed and is very very hard. You will want carbide tools at a minimum, and you WILL want to invest in diamond tools in a hurry.  I hope our experts have a lot to teach us about this beautiful and highly varied rock!  


First general tip so far.... before beginning any work with your chosen material, tap it with a hammer to make certain that it's solid ...  If you hear a ringing sound, it's likely solid with no cracks or voids.  If it's more of a dull thud or thwack, it may have inclusions or cracks and voids within ... you'll want to slice it up and test the various pieces to see which are usable.

Second general tip so far....  You may think that rock is pretty much impervious to the elements .... you're wrong.  Where do you think all that sand on the beach came from?  Ya know, it didn't start that small.   Soapstone and Alabaster are both very soft and porous stones.  They can literally DISSOLVE in water.  Marble will also sustain water damage when left outside for a long period, but soapstone and alabaster won't last for more than a year, while marble is good for several hundred years.  KEEP YOUR STONE INDOORS.  

Granite slabs, on the other hand, are commonly kept outdoors for easy viewing in natural light.  Oils and greases will stain and damage them, but water doesn't really hurt it much.  In any case, keep your small pieces inside anyways so that they don't grow legs and wander off.

Third general tip so far....  Unless you're partial to stains in your finished work (stone can be porous vs water and oils and carry stains into the rock itself), you will want to seal your finished projects with a durable coat to protect it.  I'll let our local experts explain which types of finishes they use for which types of rock specimens.



All right, guys, I got the new library file here started ... I'll leave the next few bits to you guys and come back to ask for more details tomorrow!


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## 1080Wayne

Excellent overview , but can`t help you .


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## triw51

Thank you!  That is an excellent starting point.  
I have some alabaster some one left on my property for me to store for him.  That was about 15 years ago and haven't heard from him since so I guess I acquired it by default.  How is the best was to cut it?


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## bloodhound

I am very interested in this. I love any new medium to work with. So, i will be keeping an eye on this thread. Thanks for the start.


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## robutacion

Well, I didn't know how much info relating to stone work was on our Library so, I appreciate that someone with a better knowledge on how to deal with it, in the pen making world.

I have done some work with stone, all kinds, started as a young man with learning how to cut and make stone walkways, roads, many surfaces that are today covered with bitumen or cement.  I also learn and done many meters of stole walls, most of them in paddocks but some, is houses, etc. I have also spent a few weeks working on a granite and Marble quarry, in those days, the machinery/equipment was very primitive, compared with today's methods but, even on some of these automated quarries, they have a stonemason or two to do a lot of the manual finishes required.

I have particularly enjoyed the art of splitting small rocks, using simply one hand to hold the stone and then, hit it with a small rock pick and chip away or shape it that way.

Apart from that, I installed lost of kitchen marble tops with the subsequent joints gluing and final polish.

Made a few knife handles with many types of semi-precious stones and some pens where crashed stone was also used.

It is possible to do a lot of things of stone and a wood lathe, its quite messy and requires a constant cleaning and lubrication of the lathe metal components but, it can be used with great success.

He have in our days, many small tools that are diamond coated or treated and that, don't cost a fortune as years back so, its become something that everyone can try, at least once...!

I do prefer to work with stone and with glass, my last experience was with some colourful beads that I though were made of acrylic and that I cast with some Polyester resin to make some pen blanks, I won't forget that soon, I actually opened a thread here on IAP about it, I was annoyed and embarrassed, silly me...!

Anyway, at this point I'm not giving you much info on how or, what I used to handle some of these smaller jobs but I'm sure, when the issue starts to focus on methods and toolings required, I will butt in a add some info...!

Cheers
George


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## Skie_M

Next on the list for comments and reviews .... where do I get this stuff? how do I get it into workable form for pens?  Well, stay tuned sports fans!


A wet-cutting tile saw equipped with a diamond impregnated blade will be your best friend forever, in the stonecutting side of the business.  Right now, Harbor Freight has a nice 7-inch wet-cutting tile saw on sale for only 50 bucks.  A saw like this has a ONE INCH tile cutting capacity.  Ceramic tile, these days, are about as hard as marble and a bit more brittle than granite.  If you get a wet-cutting tile saw like this one, it should handle granite too, just a little slower than it would ceramic tiles.

Soapstone and Alabaster are both actually soft enough that you can cut them with ANY WOOD SAW.  Just keep in mind that Alabaster is related to Gypsum and can contain quartz crystals.  You hit a big piece of quartz, and you're losing some saw teeth in a hurry.  Quartz is a 6 on the Mohs scale, soapstone is a 3, alabaster is a 4, marble is a 5, granite is a 6.

As for that chunk of alabaster you've got, Triw, I'm hoping you kept it indoors.  You may want to give it a few soft taps with a hammer and see if it's still solid.

Use the wet-cutting tile saw for soapstone and alabaster to give yourself some nice even cuts.  It should gently cut through the stone and work fairly fast.  For rough work, just use the wood saw. As for marble and granite, use that wet-cutting tile saw for sure.  Make sure there's plenty of water.

Now ... where to get it?

Soapstone was used for hundreds of years as a topper for wood burning stoves.  Heat basically doesn't affect it.  You might think the same about granite, but that's only true of the Basalt and the black types of granite.  Granite is formed through high heat and pressure, but some of it's components may be vulnerable to heat and water, so soapstone was far more desirable for heat retention and radiation applications.  Anyplace that makes and sells wood burning stoves should know where to get soapstone.  It's also used as a beginner material for sculpture work, so any reasonable sculpting supply in a big city should have a decent selection.

Being as how I'm out in the boonies, I have to order this stuff online .... off I go to SculptureHouse.com!  The prices aren't too bad, but they need to work on the available colors.

Alabaster, as I have mentioned already, is related to gypsum.  Anyplace you see on the map named Alabaster or Gypsum probably was named after this mineral.  Any company that manufactures gypsum wallboard is gonna have tons of alabaster that they don't want.  Alabaster is the mineralized form of Gypsum, and is undesirable till it's been weathered and beaten down till it's easily crushed and formed into wallboard.  Find a nice big chunk, hope it's got some pretty color (the outside is probably a stark powdery white), and start cutting chunks out of it that are manageable in size.  If you can't get into a gypsum quarry, it's ok .... you can head over to SculptureHouse.com with me to get some Italian Alabaster (seems to be the only stuff they have on hand) ... it's a nice ice blue in color.

In fact, here's a pic of a finished pen in the exact stuff I'm taking about, and it's in the IAP Collection as pen #1...







Just beautiful ....  They'll sell you a chunk that's about 4 pounds for 6 dollars, I think.  Not too bad on prices.

Another place I've been looking at is Colorado Alabaster.  They sell chunks all the time to art schools for kids and such .... they have a lot of variables in their price list, but they have the italian alabaster available, as well as the colorado colors, such as pink, cream, white, and green streaked white/cream.  The base price starts at $1.50 per pound for random alabaster chunks.

Marble .... most decent sized cities will have a resident sculptor or two who has access to marble.  You aren't looking to snag his work pieces, just his scrap.  Lots of marble has light pastel colors to them, or are a stark white so bright it hurts the eye to stare at it.  It may be possible to obtain smaller chunks of marble locally on the cheap, but this is NOT where a beginner starts working with stone.


Granite.  I have so much of this stuff it's just ridiculous.  There's a hard surface countertop place in town that fabricates the countertops out of granite slabs.  Their scrap is free for the taking .... after all, if we carry it off, they don't have to sweat to load it in the truck for the drive to the dump later in the week!  Some of their scrap pieces are so huge you could make a center island out of them or a new bathroom vanity!  But alas ... you'll need diamond edged tools to make a real dent in this stuff, and it's not for beginners to mess around with, unless you're making a new walkway (which is a decent and great idea for using up waste stone!)...  You should easily find granite free for the taking nearby.


I should also mention, I'm a beginner turner.  I only got my lathe this past april of 2015, turned my first pen in june.  I'll be getting some soapstone and alabaster soon from sculpturehouse, as colorado alabaster is swamped right now with school sculpture class requests, and won't be available for anything other than an EMERGENCY I NEED IT NOW kind of job which would rightfully cost you an arm and a leg.  He'll be available in mid-september after all those school orders are filled ... I can wait for the nice pink alabaster for my october pen projects. 

So ... I'll be learning as I go, and you guys can kinda follow along with my progress, and hopefully we can all garner some insight and tips/tricks from the masters who grace these hallowed halls.

Oh, yes ... I talked to the guys at Colorado Alabaster a week or so ago ....  he usually provides chunks and slabs that are at least 4 inches thick, but he can cut 1-inch thick slabs on request (which I plan to ask for).  There's a surcharge for cutting specific shapes and such, as well as for orders with stones under 15 lbs each, and with specific colors, ect ....   I'll probably end up paying 3 dollars per pound for a 15 - 20 pound 1-inch thick slab in pink alabaster, which I can then mill down myself on my wet-cutting tile saw that I'm getting this wednesday into useable pen blanks 1 inch square by about 5 inches long.  

If you plan to do a lot of work in stone, you will want to plan accordingly.  My first task, after making the initial pen blanks, will be to take the scrap pieces that are left over and START WORKING WITH THOSE TO MAKE BEADS.  I'll want to get used to working with stone, rather than jumping off the deep end.


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## JohnGreco

I would add that alabaster from 2 different areas can vary greatly in their density and hardness. For instance alabaster coming out of the New Mexico area seems more soft and less dense than the Italian alabaster. You could use a handsaw to cut either but I would highly recommend a wet saw for Italian alabaster.


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## Skie_M

That's great information to pass along, John!  I was hoping that you and others who have had experience working in stone would pop in...

Incidentally, the ice blue alabaster pen shown in my previous post was a work by JohnGreco.


Now .... you've got your stone (I don't have mine yet, but let's suppose I already did and I was ready to work with it).  What do you do with it to get it ready?

First off, let's check the soundness of what we're going to be working with .... remember that light tap with the hammer?  We want to make sure that the piece we're working on is solid.  Any surface cracks should be filled with thin CA and allowed to cure normally (no accelerator).  We should work our piece down to usable size (pen blank or whatever you have plans for) and then, before we chuck it on the lathe for any work, we should pre-round it using a sanding belt or disc ....  Remember that with stone, dust collection is not optional, it's pretty much required.

Let's assume we're starting with some small half-inch by 3/4 inch blocks of soapstone, and we're going to make some beads just to get used to it.  First, I've prepped my blocks.  Next, I've got my drill press set up with a drill press vice, and I drill my 1/4 inch hole with a carbide glass drilling bit and a good flow of water to keep the bit and the stone block cool to avoid cracking or splitting.  I drill at the lowest speed I can, and keep the pressure light.  (If I had a 7mm carbide bit, I'ld probably use it ... perhaps I can take a diamond grinding bit to my 1/4 inch carbide glass cutting bit to shape it down?)

Ok, now I have squared little blocks with holes ..... time to dress them on the belt sander so that I have rounded corners.  I can do a lot of pre-shaping off the lathe so that my work on the lathe will stress the stone much less than it otherwise would.  You'll always want to pre-roiund your stone before lathe work.

Now that that's all done, I slip some nested brass tubes into the small stone blocks (remember, I drilled a 1/4 inch hole ... that's .25, not the .245 that your 7mm mandrel is sized at, so you want to split one brass tube section and put it around another brass tube to make up the difference, and remember that we're NOT gluing the tubes in).  Once it's on the lathe mandrel between bushings, it's time to turn!

Let's start at slow speed, and use a tool we're not accustomed to using on a wood lathe .... a high carbon steel mill file.  Make sure that dust collector is turned up on high, and let the dust fly!  We're going for a nice rounded bead shape.  A mill file will cut quite fine, and will hardly need sanding, but we want a finish that will turn heads, so we'll get out the water and sandpaper and micromesh finishing pads ....  We'll work our way up to 12,000 grit and then hit it with some One-Step or some PlastX plastic polish, which will work on materials this soft ....

After that, to seal our soapstone against moisture, we'll want to give it a liberal coat on the outside, and then wet-sand and polish just as before to ensure that it's shine is durable and beautiful.  We don't want damage from beads clicking together or against countertops and such, and we don't want water damage from handwashing or dishwashing activities.  To ensure this last, when we take the bead off of the mandrel, we will be applying a few thin coats of CA inside of the bead to seal the interior against moisture.  Polishing the interior is not necessary, so long as it is smooth enough not to damage the chain or cord it is attached to.

The same procedures will work the same way with alabaster, with the exception that you will have to look out for bits of quartz crystal embedded in the matrix, and cut around them or through them with the proper tools, and use a lot more sanding to get to a finished product without making that quartz crystal pop out or break the piece apart.  A useful addition, for working with such quartz crystals in a piece of alabaster, would be a few diamond impregnated files, and working your way down slowly.


Marble is generally better behaved than alabaster, no need to worry about quartz, but cracks are a big concern.  Stabilize any cracks you see with liberal amounts of thin CA.  Work slowly down to finished size with high speed steel files and lathe tools, or carbide tipped tools.  Diamond tools will last longer than carbide for sure, but you should keep in mind that no matter how strong a diamond is, it's embedded in nickle steel and THAT can wear out with heat in a hurry.  Keep it cool, work slowly, and be patient.  

Every stone statue ever made was just as perfect as you see it today while it was still one huge chunk of stone.  All the sculptor did was chip away the excess to reveal the beauty within.

With granite, care must be taken not to stress the stone ... despite it's strength, depending on it's origin and composition, it can be quite brittle and still very hard.  Most types of granite can have minute traces of diamond in it's matrix because of it's volcanic origins.  Kimberlite is a form of such granite.  When Kimberlite is mined, it's generally a dull grey appearance, and it was formed as a volcanic column left behind by the wearing away of the outer layers of the volcano it originally created millennia ago.  The diamonds within were carried up from the upper layers of the mantle, just below the crust... and microscopic diamonds are present in much of it, dispersed randomly.  You can get kimberlite for free here in the USA .... Crater of Diamonds National Park is located in Arkansas, and gives access to the public for a small day fee.  Diamonds can and are found there yearly, some of them worth tens of thousands of dollars.  The most perfect diamond in the world, the Wagner Diamond, was found there in the 60's, I think, but rather than such a perfectly formed and perfectly clear diamond, most diamonds from the park are yellow (canary), brown (chocolate) and white (clear, usually with small inclusions).  Kimberlite is all around the park, the park is located in the caldera of a long-dead volcano.


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## TurtleTom

Keep in mind that granite dust is highly toxic.  And I mean highly.  Dust ingestion, dust inhalation, and heavy metal leaching caused by acidic foods in contact with it cause many problems for the unwary.  
  It is still unknown how the ancient Egyptians managed to work the stuff with copper tools which is the hardest material they had.  You or I certainly can't do it.  
  Stick with the alabaster and marble and you'll be fine.  
   I have a nice piece of Maine white marble I've been saving for a long time.  I think with a little more experience with pen making I might give it a try on one.  
   If you plan to work gypsum or alabaster remember they are highly water soluble. Marble and limestone are not soluble in water.  
   Let's not overlook limestone, marble's lesser gray cousin.  It's young marble waiting for a little more heat and pressure.  I've carved a lot of the stuff and I dearly love it.  Depending on your location it might be full of fossils too.  My source was North Alabama which is made of little else.  Marble a little farther north into Tennessee.


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## JohnGreco

As a bit of a sidebar from how to turn stone, I'd like to address safety.

I personally chose to avoid soapstone. Not because of how soft it is, but because some of it can have veins of asbestos running through it. Know what you have before you start throwing microscopic pieces all over you and your shop (and potentially your home if you track it inside).

Also, beware of silca such as sandstone. It's worse than asbestos and causes a condition known as silicosis of the lungs. Always use the best dust protection you can. No pen is worth your health.

Now, go have fun!


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## Skie_M

It's worth mentioning that the soapstone provided by SculptureHouse.com is asbestos-free... 

Would you happen to have any details concerning the working of your alabaster, marble, and granite, JohnGreco?

Any comments concerning the plans I have for working my first bit of soapstone and alabaster and how I plan to prep for it?


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## Skie_M

TurtleTom said:


> ....  It is still unknown how the ancient Egyptians managed to work the stuff with copper tools which is the hardest material they had.  You or I certainly can't do it....



The Egyptians did it the hard way.  First, they picked up a piece of granite the size of a fist, and used it to work other tools out of granite...  Sure, the only metals they had were copper and brass, but they had brains too ... 

"If it's that hard, you need something just hard to hit it with ... what can I use ..." *trips over a rock* EUREKA!!


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## Skie_M

Got my Harbor Freight 7 inch wet-cutting tile saw .... had a coupon for $49.99, but they neglected to tell me it doesn't come with a blade! >.<

I went back and bought a 7 inch 5/8ths inch arbor continuous rim wet-cutting diamond blade for about 22 dollars.

I didn't bother getting the 2 year extended warranty .... This thing is made to do a max 1-inch thick piece of tile or rock, and my first piece is gonna be 7 inches by 7 inches by 5 inches (alabaster) ... I think I'll be voiding the warranty on day 1. 

Since alabaster is so soft, I'll actually be doing some guidance cuts all around the block to guide my saw to make 1-inch slabs, and then I'll be cutting the slabs into 1-inch blanks which should pretty much be to 5 inch lengths.  If I do it right, I'll have 49 pen blanks.  Of course, that's if the measurements were accurate and the sides were cut evenly to 90 degrees .... If they're off by a bit, I may end up with around 25 - 30 pen blanks and a bunch of small offcut pieces suitable for beads.

Hoping I get my alabaster in soon!


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## Skie_M

The wet-cutting tile saw cuts through the granite fairly well ... I kept a gentle feed rate of about 1.5mm per sec.  The height of the blade over the table is actually about 1.5 inches, so that's better than I expected.  The water trough is a bit problematic, requiring the user to tilt the body of the saw in order to get it in and out ... and it sprays the user if you're right in front of the saw.

I also noticed that the arbor is a tiny bit off, as the blade wobbles side to side as much as 1mm, doubling the kerf width.  I'll ask if this is within tolerances, and if not, to switch the saw out for another.

I have a piece of natural stone tile, it seems to be a derivative of sandstone, and it's pretty soft.  It is only 1.5 inches wide where I cut it, but it only took 5 seconds to go all the way through.  I know that this rock is harder than soapstone, but it may be about the same as alabaster.  I'll have to see when it gets in.

I tried to create another pen blank out of granite.  I was able to get a 1.3 inch square by 3 inch long blank out of a piece of scrap, but when I tried to true up one end with my sander so that I could drill my hole, I found that my sander cannot wear away the granite.  Only a small amount wore away, and then the stone (quartz crystals within it) began glowing a dull orange and VERY SLOWLY chipping away.  

My sanding belts are garnet, they aren't hard enough to take on granite.  If I could find some Aluminum Oxide (Corundum) belts, they might handle it.  Sapphire and Ruby are a 9 on the Mohs scale.

That's enough playing for one night, I'll give updates as I work with the alabaster as soon as I get it in.

Meanwhile, I hope our resident experts chime in with more details of their tried and true methods of stone prep and turning experiences!  (And I'll see if I can't just tune my wet-cutting tile saw to have a smaller kerf...)


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## Skie_M

Got alabaster?  :biggrin:


The tile saw slices through this stone quite easily, as fast as half an inch per second, and that seems almost too fast, compared to cutting granite.


I put it up against the fence (forgot to lock it down....  ) and started cutting ....

Once I locked the fence down :tongue: I cut all the way round the stone to give me some kind of guidance when cutting freehand.  I used a simple wood saw.   (Pics will be coming soon in my next post ... I'll just quote this post and insert the pics with more comments as they come.)

Cutting with the wood saw was quite easy, and the dust was very fine.  It really looks and smells just like drywall material.    A very fine talc looking powder.

After I cut the slab off, back to the tile saw .... I set the fence at about 3/4 inch and just started slicing my 5-inch long blanks from it.  One of the blanks ended up a lil thinner, and I should have planned ahead for that ... I could have gotten the extra material from the end piece that was chipped out.

That same end piece that I cut first because I didn't want it to get in the way, lol ...  Beautiful white, though, and mostly translucent...  I chopped that one up into blocks for making beads (to practice with).


Now ... time to get to my lathe and make those beads!


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## Skie_M

Ok, quoting my previous post, this time adding pics ...

The Alabaster I got was a nice pretty reddish/orange to creamy white, with pink sandwiched in between.





As you can see, dry vs wet, the stone shows much better color when wet.  Just don't leave it wet all the time, the stone will be damaged!


The tile saw slices through this stone quite easily, as fast as half an inch per second, and that seems almost too fast, compared to cutting granite.

I put it up against the fence (forgot to lock it down....  ) and started cutting ....





Once I locked the fence down :tongue: I cut all the way round the stone to give me some kind of guidance when cutting freehand.  I used a simple wood saw.   






Cutting with the wood saw was quite easy, and the dust was very fine.  It really looks and smells just like drywall material.    A very fine talc looking 
powder.





Leftover chip that I broke off .... viewed with strong light behind it...






After I cut the slab off, back to the tile saw .... I set the fence at about 3/4 inch and just started slicing my 5-inch long blanks from it.  One of the blanks ended up a lil thinner, and I should have planned ahead for that ... I could have gotten the extra material from the end piece that was chipped out.  I also ended up with a thicker piece .... that's why I should measure twice and cut once, right? 






That same end piece that I cut first because I didn't want it to get in the way, lol ...  Beautiful white, though, and mostly translucent...  I chopped that one up into blocks for making beads (to practice with).


Now ... time to get to my lathe and make those beads!






Ok ... found out that alabaster doesn't like being under pressure without something secured to it to take that stress.  It also doesn't like being worked while wet!  I tried drilling with water for cooling, but it gums up and the hydraulic pressure just blows the blank apart.  Drill it dry, just take small bites and back out to clear the flutes.   I don't glue tubes inside when making beads, so they have a few cracks here and there on the thinner parts.  The elongated pear-shaped ones were meant for keychains, but I didn't want the tube inside so that the stone would be translucent... again, the thin side cracked on one of them.  I cut up some spare tubes to use as a spacer underneath to take the pressure off, and the last one worked nicely (top right).

continued with next post...  went on to make a pen tonight!


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## Skie_M

Ok ... first pic here is where I took the biggest blank I had (one of the orange/red ones) and tried to make a pen out of it.  Success or fail, I knew I was going to post it, just to show everybody how it went.  My first time making a pen from Alabaster...


I don't have a way to chuck this up between centers without putting a lot of pressure on the stone, and I already knew that would turn out badly...  So I cut my blanks a little oversized and drilled them on the drill press dry.






They came out fairly nice ... drilled right through, though I got one a tiny bit off center.  I knew that would be OK for the pen kit I was making, a Comfort Pen by PSI...  I'll just put that one on the front of the pen.






I turned them rough with a freshly sharpened 3/8ths inch bowl gouge ... I took my time with very small (.5mm) bites and worked it down to this stage ...






I sanded DRY from 220 grit up to 12,000 grit micromesh (all dry!).  The grits up to 1000 loaded extremely fast ... but I took my time as I wanted it to look right.  I used some old micromesh pads that I kept around for misc use, as my nice new ones that I just got don't need to be abused... :tongue:






I didn't seal my project with CA as I had originally planned.  I want to see how well this pen holds up without it.  I did use Meguair's PlastX for polish and shine, and topped it with Turtle Wax hard surface wax.  While pressing the pen, a very small amount chipped out on the top half of the pen, right in the middle just above the band.  It's hardly noticeable, but it's there.  I think if I had used CA as a topcoat, I could have prevented that damage, but this is why I didn't do that in the first place ... to see how it will hold up.


That's it ... I did it ... I turned a pen out of stone!


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## TimS124

I posted a picture of a soapstone shaving brush I made in a thread I started in late 2013...message #4 of that thread includes the place I got my soapstone from at $1.50 a pound.  Here's the thread:

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f45/tried-something-new-tonight-117388/


Here are the links (from that thread) to their official site and their Easy Store:


Sierra Hills Stone


https://www.etsy.com/listing/69421236/sculpture-quality-california-soapstone?ref=shop_home_active


The owner has a couple books out on Soapstone carving plus they carry sculpture-quality Alabaster as well as a variety of colors of Soapstone.  If you're worried about asbestos, call and talk to them.


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## Skie_M

I am finding that a 3/4 by 3/4 by 5 inch block (standard large diameter pen blank size) is sufficiently strong enough for drilling and turning on the lathe to create a pen.


Tonight, I went ahead and turned a nice white/cream with a small amount of pinkish color stone to it.   This time round, I attempted to give it a nice coat of CA, but it didn't take.  When I went to wet sand the CA coating (I put 6 coats on it), the CA simply sloughed off and I was instantly back to bare stone.

I shrugged my shoulders and went ahead with micromesh sanding (wet, this time), all the way to 12,000 grit.  Polished with PlastX and topcoat of Turtle Wax.  We'll just have to see how well it holds up.   

I didn't have any chipping from pressing the pen this time round, but there was some very sight damage caused by superglue at the edge of the blank where the bushing was glued to it ... I didn't separate it well enough before taking it off the mandrel, I suppose.  The damage is very sight, similar to what happened last time, but as this happened before pressing the pen, the damage is quite well hidden under the clip.  No other mishaps occurred.

I used Abranet for the first time tonight as well .... sanding at 3200 rpms with my fingers mere millimeters from the stone and I felt NO HEAT AT ALL .... just lovely!.  The 120 is quite aggressive, and I could probably use that for final shaping of my stone without all the stress and worry using my chisels causes me with this material.


As for that store you suggested ..... it would be great if I could go there and pick some out myself, but ordering random blocks online without any kind of pictures?  And the stones they show online are all dry ... no wet stones to indicate the types of colors that are truly in the rocks ...

The price is right, though .... 28 dollars for a 25 pound assortment of rocks, between 1 and 5 pounds, random color/size/quality.  I might try a box of that, sometime ... but if I'm trying to fulfill an order for a customer who wants a specific color, I can't trust to chance.


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## TimS124

Skie_M said:


> <snip>
> 
> As for that store you suggested ..... it would be great if I could go there and pick some out myself, but ordering random blocks online without any kind of pictures?  And the stones they show online are all dry ... no wet stones to indicate the types of colors that are truly in the rocks ...
> 
> The price is right, though .... 28 dollars for a 25 pound assortment of rocks, between 1 and 5 pounds, random color/size/quality.  I might try a box of that, sometime ... but if I'm trying to fulfill an order for a customer who wants a specific color, I can't trust to chance.



Call them and explain what you're looking for...odds are, they can hook you up just fine.  I've gone in person multiple times and they've always been helpful.  I'd be shocked if they can't handle a phone request for a particular stone...


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## Skie_M

I'm still probably gonna start off just ordering the 25 lb assortment to see what all colors are available and just to get a nice assortment. 


Right now, I have a reddish/orange color with some white spotting in it (the pen you see pictured here) and a nice cream/white color with some peach/pink in it here and there, though if I'm lucky, I can get some nice pure white/cream going, and then there's the peach/pink color that I really wanted to get my hands on to prep up some high dollar pens for october breast cancer awareness ...  My plan is to offer the pens up for a raffle at the local cancer center and donate the proceeds. 


I got a 21 lb stone from a very generous IAP member for a sweet price ... perhaps half of it is that reddish/orange, 1/8th is the cream/white, and 1/3 or so is the peach/pink.


The white would go well with the chrome with pink crystals ... the pink with the rose gold with pink crystals.


As soon as I get my light box set up (I just bought some old fluorescent desk lamps to see if they'll work for me), I'll see about getting some better pics up.


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## Skie_M

Here's the pics of the white/cream looking one I mentioned ....












Next up will be the peach/pink color alabaster, but I ran out of pen kits ..... I might just do something original, like a tiny stone vial or vase ....


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## TimS124

I've enclosed a handful of phone photos of pieces of soapstone I picked up from Sierra Hills. They have quite a variety and it looks like it's all different from what you described you already have.  

The shaving brush I made came from the stone in the first photo.  It's my favorite color combination though the green stone is a close second.

I also have some that's grey when dry, but pretty much black once it has a finish on it.  Dry, it looks like it should have some cool figure, but once a finish is on, it's pretty much flat/dark.  I used a chunk of that to carve a simple raven for one of my sisters (she requested the shape).

I selected these myself from piles of offcuts they have out back.  Larger blocks are available but I wanted a variety of colors, sizes, etc.  Picking my own was half the fun.

For anybody thinking of going, bring a bottle or two of water.  Pouring a bit on the face of the stone will make the color pop out...same effect you'll get when the stone is finished and coated with shellac, lacquer, etc.  Often, the color(s) will be very different wet than dry!


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## Skie_M

I'll have to see if I can get my hands on some of that green .... my sister and brother are both partial to that color.

My half-sister loves turquoise, so since I've got some real turquoise laying about, she's gone ape trying to get me to make more stuff for her. 

I still would like to get my hands on some of that Italian ice-blue/white alabaster ... but I've got enough to play with for a lil while here.  I'm outta pen kits! lol!


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## Chasper

I came to IAP eight years ago looking for info about making pens out of stone.
Eight  years and 15,000 pens later, I still have only made a few dozen real stone pens, (I've made 100s out of TruStone) and I have experimented with stone turning several times.
A few things I can add to what is already here:
Soapstone can range from MOHS 2.5 to 5, depending on the percent of talc.  Architectural dark soapstone can have a little as 30% talc and is MOHS 5.
Catlinite is a material a pen turner should consider, Minnesota pipestone is the best catlinite for turning.  Is is MOHS 2.5 but it holds up great as a pen
Amber turns nicely, but polishing it back to a smooth and shiny finish is difficult, it tends to gum up the sandpaper.
Jet also turns nicely and it polishes out well, but it makes a totally boring pen.
A big fluorite crystal shattered immediately when I touched it with a drill bit.
Malachite turns and finishes nicely, looks good too, but finding a big enough piece to work with that doesn't cost hundreds of dollars is not easy.  Also it will kill you quickly if you breath the dust.
Obsidian and slag glass are MOHS 5.5 but they both can be turned with carbide tools.  I've never tried making a pen out of obsidian.
I've never turned anything with a MOHS above 6, I'm impressed that you have turned granite.
Some materials harden with exposure.  I picked up a chunk of oolitic limestone the day it was quarried and I was able to drill and turn it easily the next day.  A month later it was impossible to work with.
As pens, I've found stone to be a difficult material to work with and the results to be mostly disappointing.  With alabaster and softer soapstone the clips mar and scratch the contact point where then touch the upper barrel, no matter how many coats of CA I put on for protection.  The biggest disappointment is that compared to the resin or wood blanks I can make or buy, stone pens don't stand out and I have had very little success selling them.


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## hornet406

Thanks everyone for the great information. Definitely need to try this.


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## Skie_M

Yes, malachite is a form of copper oxide ... they use that stuff to kill tree roots.  I do work with very small quantities of it, but all my sanding of malachite is done WET.

The same is true when I do stone inlays of Turquoise, Red Jasper, Serpentine, and Lapis Lazuli.

I'ld never try to make a pen out of obsidian ... it's natural glass.  Glass doesn't like being drilled, and has a tendency to crack, flake, and shatter, when struck.  It also doesn't like being sanded and ground with anything less than water cooled diamond edged tools.  Also, obsidian and slag glass dust, being super-fine shards of glass suspended in the air, won't kill you very fast.... but you'll wish it had when you're coughing your lungs out.

As a general rule, I'm staying away from anything even remotely resembling crystals, including quartz, which is also a form of natural glass that has formed into a crystal.

I might try that Catlinite or some Amber, if I can find a big enough piece that is decently clear and won't cost me an arm and a leg ...

As I mentioned elsewhere, I TRIED to turn some granite .... never got past the drilling stage, it simply blew apart when I tried to drill the blank with my carbide glass drilling bit... even with water cooling.

When I tried to sand the edges of the granite clean, all I did was remove the grit off my sanding belt .... Garnet isn't hard enough.  I need corundum or diamond to work with granite, and granite dust can contain diamond particles, which are bad for breathing too!  And for those of you who didn't know, corundum is more commonly known as aluminum oxide .... if it's a red aluminum oxide crystal, it's called a ruby, and any other color is called a sapphire, including pink.  Sapphire is a 9 on the Mohs scale, while diamond is obviously a 10.

I'll stick with soapstone and alabaster for now ... they're easy enough to turn that I don't need any kind of special tools ... my woodworking tools are more than sufficient for working these soft stones.  These stones are also available internationally at fairly low price, so it's something anybody starting out in stonework should consider before moving on to the harder stuff.


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## Skie_M

So ... My idea to finish my alabaster pens with CA didn't work for me.  I have no idea why that is, but it is ....


My thinking on this matter is ... I wet-sanded the stone pen barrel before I applied CA ... also applied denatured alcohol to clean the dust off.

Should I have let it dry longer before application of CA coats?

Should I have let the CA fully cure before attempting final sanding/polishing?

Should I have not bothered with attempting CA and gone with some other method of finishing/sealing, like laquer?

Would a coat of spray-on clear coat paint be more effective?


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## Skie_M

Recently got a new tip from John Greco concerning stone pen assembly ...

It's best to ream/drill the barrel tube ends so that you do not use pressure to fit the pen components together, and glue them in place....

My idea to compliment this was to sand the components so that they fit easily with no binding or pressure, and then glue them in place....


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## Swagopenturner

You mentioned diamond tipped cutting tools in your first post.  Can you give me an idea where to get them?  I routinely turn Tru-Stone and have no problems with it.  Alabaster and Soapstone turn very well, I just can't get it too thin or it chips or cracks.  But I want to try granite and the idea of diamond tools is good if I could find them.


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## Skie_M

Nope .... I don't mention diamond tipped tools.  But I do mention diamond tools...


It is a reference to diamond faced grinding wheels and files as well as drill bits.  If you google "Diamond Drill", I'm certain you will find MANY sites that have a wide assortment of tools to apply to working granite and other extremely hard materials.  They'll probably have everything you need.   Keep in mind that the prices are going to be quite high, and water cooling is a must.... even if you're just dipping the tool after every few seconds of use.


I do know that Harbor Freight carries diamond cutoff wheels for mini rotary tools, as well as diamond burrs for the same type of rotary tools, and you could look around your local hardware stores for diamond files .... but the drill bit would be the big issue, as the best HFT will have will be their glass cutting carbide bits.  Those could get you through, but they're not the best ... essentially a spade bit on steroids.  You'll still want water cooling as you drill granite.


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## Swagopenturner

You are right, I stand corrected!  I did however find a few companies that are selling diamond tipped inserts that should fit my tools.  I am waiting on pricing from them.
J & M Diamond Tool, Inc.
http://chasediamond.com/


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## Skie_M

Keep in mind that diamonds are extremely hard and durable ....


But the metal matrix holding them in place IS NOT AS STRONG AS DIAMOND, and that is why water cooling is required.  The diamonds can take the heat and pressure and grin, but that nickle-based alloy will suffer from heat fatigue and be worn away by the diamond particles present in granite over time.  Water will help a lot to keep the heat down and increase the life of a diamond faced tool over time dramatically.


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## ben walsh design

this is all very interesting ...im working on some concrete pens atm you might know of anyone who has attempted this before?


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## mtassie

I get my alabaster from this guy, he'll cut what you want.
NM STONE SUPPLY


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## TimS124

Skie_M said:


> <snip>
> 
> Soapstone and Alabaster are both actually soft enough that you can cut them with ANY WOOD SAW.  Just keep in mind that Alabaster is related to Gypsum and can contain quartz crystals.  You hit a big piece of quartz, and you're losing some saw teeth in a hurry.  Quartz is a 6 on the Mohs scale, soapstone is a 3, alabaster is a 4, marble is a 5, granite is a 6.
> 
> <snip>



Where did you get those hardness numbers from?  When I've looked up the hardness ratings for Soapstone and Alabaster, they're lower than what you've cited.

Soapstone is the softest of stone...starting at Mohs 1 for the lighter colors of soapstone and ranging up to 3for the darkest colors.  Countertops are generally only available in the dark colors because they're the hardest...but anybody that wants softer stone can simply look for the lighter colors of soapstone...

Alabaster ranges only up to 3 on the Mohs scale according to its Wikipedia entry...  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alabaster

Marble ranges in hardness from 3 to 5....

Quartz ranks as 7 on the Mohs scale according to several mineral sites I looked up.  Here's one... Mohs Scale of Hardness


It's cool to see more info on working stone, but before it gets committed to a library article, it would be good to fact-check technical details as people new to working stone aren't likely to realize that some stones have a range of hardness giving them options depending on what results they're after or what tools they have to work with.

Soapstone is well known for having all sorts of inclusions that are far harder than even the darkest soapstone.  Using HSS tools on soapstone can cost some grinding time repairing nasty nicks.  I've found pyrite chunks (thankfully small chunks) in soapstone while hard carving it...that stuff ranks 6 to 6.5 on the Mohs scale so it's right up there with granite.


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## Skie_M

Some good points there, Tim ... thanks for the corrections! 


Generally, soapstone and alabaster are soft enough that you can scratch the stone with a fingernail and not really hurt your fingernails ... but they can also be quite a bit harder, depending on their source and formation.  I have some beautiful blue alabaster from Italy that is very very hard stuff, and I needed to pull out my carbide chisel to go at it.

I still have a lot more to learn when it comes to turning stone, and I hope others can pick something up and learn from my experiences too.


Sometime this weekend, I plan to turn a few chunks of Lapis Lazuli ... possibly make some beads and cabochons for fun.  I may even do a little bit of Malachite!


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## SteveG

I firmly believe that you guys ROCK!!:winkun intended...

But as for me, it is wood, plastic, and a little assortment of metals thrown in to keep it interesting. But do go have fun, and please be sure to keep your lungs clean. ALOHA!


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## Mr Vic

Note on Soapstone. I turned the stone available from Hobby Lobby. It turned and sanded beautifully. However I dry sanded and have a relatively smooth concrete floor. I believe someone mention Talc and that's what if felt like smooth, silky and slick. Proper breathing protection and dust collection is a total must.


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## More4dan

The Egyptians and others that used copper to cut hard stones actually used sand embedded into the edges of the soft copper blades.  The same method can be used to drill hard rocks.  Use a copper rod and diamond grinding dust in the drill press.  Advice I was given when thinking of stone handles for my custom knives but I've not been brave enough to try.  Tru-Stone on the other hand ...


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## Skie_M

More4dan said:


> The Egyptians and others that used copper to cut hard stones actually used sand embedded into the edges of the soft copper blades.  The same method can be used to drill hard rocks.  Use a copper rod and diamond grinding dust in the drill press.  Advice I was given when thinking of stone handles for my custom knives but I've not been brave enough to try.  Tru-Stone on the other hand ...





Slow drilling speed, medium to light pressure, keep it continually moving while UNDER WATER, but yes .... it can work! 

Also, welding or sintering some diamond embedded metal onto the end of a steel rod would do it too, and you won't chance losing all the diamond particles with faster water flow or drilling speed, but you STILL NEED TO HAVE WATER COVERING THE BIT AND HOLE AT ALL TIMES to keep it from heating up and coming apart.

Diamond can take the heat with no problem ... the material holding the diamond particles in place are another story!


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## Skie_M

Update:

The malachite wasn't too happy ... it seems to be a banded mineral that splits between the layer bands when pressure is applied, so the beads I tried to make are all just little pieces ... which is still fine, of course, as I can just crush those up and use them for malachite inlay now!

If I end up with enough malachite pieces left over, I may even be able to make an entire pen blank from this stuff... 

Dust collection is an absolute requirement with malachite, as it's a form of oxidized copper and is fairly poisonous.  Dust mask on to be on the safe side, too, even while wet sanding. 

I made a lovely paperweight out of Italian blue alabaster... it's just about an inch and a half across, and about an inch high. It weighs 1 and 1/3 ounces, which seems perfect for holding down paper near a window AC unit's fan. I'll put a picture up of it next time the sun's shining and I remember to get my camera out for this.


I still need to get around to turning a pen from my Italian blue alabaster ... no idea which kit I'ld like to use, but as it's such a pretty sky blue color, I'm thinking something gold will pair extremely well with it.


Current project is crushed Tigereye genuine semi-precious stone blank.  I'll have a small amount of tigereye that has been crushed into fairly small grains and then held in a matrix using CA, so that one should be able to see the unfinished edges of stone in between the finished edges that are on the face of the pen's surface.  The entire pen will then be given a generous coat of CA for protection, but my current quandary is.... how to get the CA and stone onto the blank without gluing it to the mandrel or bushings???

Current idea in the works ... turn a temporary mandrel with bushings out of vinyl rod.


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## Skie_M

> I still need to get around to turning a pen from my Italian blue alabaster ... no idea which kit I'ld like to use, but as it's such a pretty sky blue color, I'm thinking something gold will pair extremely well with it.





Stoneworking update:
Well, went to turn a bit more Italian Blue and found out why I only made the one desk paperweight ...  It's a good thing I have a carbide tool!  This stuff is super hard, seems to have some quartz running all through it .... It throws a tiny shower of orange/yellow sparks as I use one of my HSS lathe tools on it, and it takes the edge off in under 10 seconds flat!  I've never had this kind of issue with my other alabasters!  I'll have to stick with just the carbide as I work this stuff.

I also picked up some Selenite sticks for a random little project... this stuff is even softer than sandstone, splinters and splits extremely easily, and is a water soluble mineral ... It's also relatively clear and fun to play with!


I think that Italian Blue Alabaster pen will have to wait, though I'm keen on getting it on one of my Majestic pens someday!  The little piece I have on my lathe right now is for a small side project of mine while I wait for my PSI order to get here.


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## Skie_M

It's a sunny day!







It's a pretty little paperweight .... bout the size of a half dollar, I think?

Trying to turn another similarly sized chunk reminds me why I decided NOT to turn the blue alabaster pen ...

While I do have a carbide tipped tool, I have only the one, and the insert is getting a bit dull.  And VERY HOT.






I took this off the lathe to show you guys .... the edge that was being used was the sharpest I have left on it, so I'm going to have to chance sharpening that carbide insert or order a replacement.  You can see the sides appear to be nearly polished by the burnishing action of the dull edge.  It's not even fully rounded yet!


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## Houtkop

*Turning with Sandpaper*

I turned a Verdite tube yesterday, only to have it ripped out of my hand while buffing it, breaking off about 10mm on the one end. Seeing a grown man cry is not a pretty site. Will try and rescue it by squaring of on both sides and adding Malachite pieces on the ends.

But I got off topic there. I have used carbide tools, but on softer stone I use emery cloth backed with a flat piece of wood to do most of the turning.


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## Skie_M

I feel for you, man!


I do my final sanding/buffing on the lathe ... I find that most stones are soft enough that Plast-X does an excellent job of buffing them to a gleaming finish.  Many are semi-porous or have some type of interior structure that mars the final finish, however, but that typically shows up as an interesting grain pattern that I like.  (minor edit for clarification ... I keep my barrels/beads on the lathe through the buffing process!  The buffing is with the polishing paste compound and with a lint-free paper towel ... blue shop towel, in fact.)


While working on the more delicate items, I generally just grab my abranet 120 grit and stretch it end to end, wrapping it perhaps 30 - 45 degrees round the spinning blank.  This removes stock quickly and efficiently, but doesn't do a whole lot to round it out evenly at the end ... for that I use some emery boards (nail files from a beauty salon) that I buy in bulk at a local place.  They are cardboard backed and fairly stiff, so they do a good job.  The are also fairly thin and easy to handle, so they work extremely well when working beads.


I don't have any Verdite ... but I recently went to a local shop and spent about 60 dollars on various stones.  I got a little bit of emerald, some nice large chunks of peridot, azurite, flourite, and some lovely tigereye... I also managed to grab some moonstone to play with as well.


One of these days, I'll get my old hard drive platters out and set up my gemcutting station and have some real fun grinding and polishing some facets ... till then, it's cabochons for me!


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## randyrls

Skie_M said:


> While I do have a carbide tipped tool, I have only the one, and the insert is getting a bit dull.  And VERY HOT.



Have you tried honing the carbide?  I have a carbide bit that I use for all my acrylics.  I use a credit card diamond hone on it when it gets dull.  I may have to start looking for another one...   While this one is still sharp, it gets thinner every year.


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## Skie_M

Yes ... I sharpened that carbide up a good bit, but I think it's my HFT diamond block that just isn't giving me the results I want for that edge ... I just got a pair of lovely 2-sided 400/600 grit diamond surface in (2" x 6") for only $6.99 each.  These are solid surface diamond plates, with no gaps in them to mess up my edges ... I also got a planer/chisel sharpening guide.

I'll be sharpening up the old radius edge again real soon, but in addition to those I modified a new bit holder to hold the new square carbide bits I got in from Global Tools.  These have very sharp corners...  I had fun using them on my more recent abalone shell projects.


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## Woodchipper

Did a search for turning marble as there are a few local places where I could get pieces of countertop. I used to sell cabinetry.  Marble can have a highly polished finish, but it is still porous.  We recommended using a sealer on it at least twice a year.
After reading the thread, I looks like stone turning will be down the road a long way.  Thanks to all who contributed!
Edit:  The Egyptians didn't build the pyramids.  It was done by space aliens. :alien: :alien:


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## PenPal

Making a pen from a Wooly Mammoth Tooth I used a metal cutting blade on a three wheeler small Bandsaw. A Carbide Tool that I used until each of the four faces was blunt. Removed the cutter and rubbed it face down on a fineish Diamond file. It took me 6 hours to turn the 
Pen Blank and I am still using that one four faced cutter a yr or two later.

I drilled the blank using a near to sized Carbide Tipped Masonry,Steel special purpose drill to near size then a high speed drill to finish size. The first drill is sold around the world as a special purpose drill that will drill through a file or high speed steel or glass. They are cheap enough in my opinion.

I have designed a rock lathe but in my advanced years regard the exercise unnecessary,this is my 85th yr with more pressing projects.

The description of my successful Wooly Mammoth pen I detailed with pics under my name on the forum.

One time in Eastern Turkey I watched a guy of no know real skills using a one hundred year old metal lathe turning masterpieces from Alabaster out on the side of a busy road near a town.

Peter.


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