# Poison Ivy



## woodboys (May 27, 2009)

Just courious if anyone has ever tried making anything out of poison ivy before. I have a vine on a tree that is at least 3 1/2 to 4 inches thick and solid as pine. The biggest vine I've ever seen.


----------



## ngeb528 (May 28, 2009)

I've only every seen poison ivy as a plant, not a vine.

I know the oil in the leaves is what causes rashes - my brother would get it if he got within 50 feet of a plant - but I'm not sure if the oil is in the plant but I'd be very careful about turning something like that.  The dust alone could cause terrible problems, especially if you get it in your eyes.


----------



## DCBluesman (May 28, 2009)

Yes, it's been done.  Yes, it is a very bad idea.  High risk-low reward.


----------



## el_d (May 28, 2009)

As Lou said its been done, and the wood was rather plain. High risk for plain grain IMHO.


----------



## Randy_ (May 28, 2009)

There was even a magazine article written on crafting a poison ivy pen.

Appears to be a safe project when done properly; but there are some extra risks so be careful.


----------



## mickr (May 28, 2009)

check out Woodturing Design magazine..they had an article on it


----------



## sparhawk (May 28, 2009)

http://www.woodturningdesign.com/issues/fall07.shtml  Its the one called Pens with bite. There is a note at the bottom of the page addresessing the poison ivy pen.


----------



## Russianwolf (May 28, 2009)

depends, are you allergic to it? I could make one since I'm not, but with my luck the buyer would come back PISSED.


----------



## woodboys (May 28, 2009)

Mike I'm not allergic to it either.

I have never seen a vine anywhere close to this size and just wondered if there was something that could be done with it. I cut it at the base so It won't get bigger as I know alot of people are allergic to it, and that's how I know it's so solid.


----------



## ilikewood (May 28, 2009)

Just a little side note on this.....Chechen trees are also known as "Poison trees" because they carry a compound like poison ivy.  It is contained in the layer between the bark and the wood, so most wood is fine.  If you have a burl that contains bark and is fairly fresh, this one can really get you if you are allergic to poison ivy.  

BTW- I agree with RussianWolf....If someone sold me a pen (unintentionally) out of poison ivy, I would be pretty PO'd.  I am so allergic that all I have to be is down wind of the stuff to break out.


----------



## pipecrafter (May 28, 2009)

I agree - bad idea.  The allergens aren't restricted to the leaves, they're also in the wood itself.  Years and years ago my father sent some poison ivy vines (same size as the ones you describe) through a chipper/shredder and had an absolutely horrible reaction.  These were the vines that I had chopped into 3-foot lengths about a year earlier, and they were dead and dry when he chipped them.


----------



## philb (May 28, 2009)

If you did a CA finish or lacquer finish would the effects of the poison not be controlled?

As the wood would be completely encased in polymer? Especially if you sealed the ends?

Just a thought?

PHIL


----------



## Wheaties (May 28, 2009)

From my understanding, the oil in the vines is what causes the reaction. After you cut the vines and dry them, the oil dries out and looses its effect. Any remaining oil that may be in there will be sealed off by a CA finish (i.e.). But after it is dry, it shouldn't have any effect, even if you are alergic.


----------



## Fred (May 28, 2009)

I can state most definitely that the entire plant, from root tip to the end of the farthest branch to the end of every leaf and to the top of the vine, that EVERY portion of that blasted weed is deadly. Deadly to all that are allergic to it.

Don't believe me ... well, just go ahead and burn some of it and stand in the smoke. Then see what happens to your insides and all your exposed skin!

Then, when you get out of the hospital after several weeks, write us and tell us how you are doing.

Dead or alive, green, or dead and bone dry (very bad stuff), the noxious oils present in every cell of the vine is a potential for dangerous reactions in those of us who are allergic to it, and also to those that are not at that time.

Stay away from the plant as others here have already advised you it just is not worth the risk of exposure.

It may be that if you insist on turning this woody vine, that since you are not allergic to it now, you very well could become sensitized to it afterwards. And being sensitized to anything is far, far worse than being allergic to it in the first place. As I have stated before here, ask your doctor about becoming "sensitized" to irritants.

No way!!

BIG TIME DANGER FLAGS are up all around this topic in my opinion. :crying::crying::frown::frown:


----------



## Wheaties (May 28, 2009)

Fred said:


> I can state most definitely that the entire plant, from root tip to the end of the farthest branch to the end of every leaf and to the top of the vine, that EVERY portion of that blasted weed is deadly. Deadly to all that are allergic to it.
> 
> Don't believe me ... well, just go ahead and burn some of it and stand in the smoke. Then see what happens to your insides and all your exposed skin!
> 
> ...


 

Good to know. I will take first hand knowledge over any other kind!


----------



## Robert A. (May 28, 2009)

Kinda like juggling with lit dinomite in my book.Now I've got a large muskidine vine I plan on trying.I'll let you know how it goe's.


----------



## Fred (May 28, 2009)

The muscadine vine will turn beautifully and even more spectacularly if you get it stabilized which is highly recommended! Contact Mesquiteman here on the Forum about his process of worthless wood stabilization.

Don't know about walking with a stick of dynamite, BUT I can tell you a long story about carrying around a live HE grenade for many minutes and being surrounded by 100's of gasoline fuel tanks. But that is definitely for another time!


----------



## its_virgil (May 28, 2009)

With all of the wonderful things we have to turn my only comment is:WHY??
To each his own...
do a good turn daily!
Don


----------



## TellicoTurning (May 28, 2009)

Well, This dude gets to itching just thinking about turning a poison ivy.... I am HIGHLY allergic to that stuff and have been working for 3 years to get rid of it off my lot... about 98% gone.  

Nancy, Poison Ivy is just like an ivy... it will climb up a tree and cover one if given the time and opportunity.... Poison Oak is a bush type plant that is just as nasty as the ivy.... 

I had a childhood friend that ran through the smoke of a fire that had poison ivy/oak burning... he wound up with a nasty infection in his lungs, throat, nose and mouth... almost killed him.

Not everyone is allergic to it, but about 90% are.  I think the oil is in the sap and on the leaves... and it will get on your clothes, gloves, tools and be infectious a year later.


----------



## chriselle (May 28, 2009)

I would steer clear.  I work with urushi all the time (same family as poison ivy) as a finish but the tree itself is really nasty.  The trees grow all over the area where I live and many have "danger" signs posted at their base.  Just sayin...take care!


----------



## wdcav1952 (May 28, 2009)

Another point to consider:  You the pen maker may not be affected by a poison ivy pen.  Your customer may not be allergic to the pen.  If a child chews on the pen, or it is passed on to someone who is quite allergic to poison ivy guess who will hear about it, likely from a personal injury attorney?


----------



## Mudder (May 28, 2009)

Fred said:


> .........Don't believe me ... well, just go ahead and burn some of it and stand in the smoke. Then see what happens to your insides and all your exposed skin!.................



This very thing happened to a dear friend of mine about 20 years ago. He was extremely critical for weeks and he almost died twice. To this day he still has difficulty breathing because of of the stupid mistake he made by burning a bunch of poison ivy.

I think the risk far outweighs the reward.


----------



## Fred (May 29, 2009)

Good folks, don't forget that our pets roam free in the woods and when they get into this "stuff" (trying to be nice here) and come home, guess what they bring back to you?

Right now my next door neighbor is wondering, "I haven't been around this plant as I know better, so how in blue blazes did I get it all over my face, arms, legs, and hands?" She actusally looks like a very ride red strawberry with many, many blisters!

She refuses to believe me when I point out to her that she has one of the biggest and healthiest stands of Poison Ivy around and that her dog uses that area as it's restroom! She refuses to let me spray it with RoundUp since she just knows that it would get on her dog and kill it.

Can we all say in unison, "Stupid Woman!"

For anyone that is interested, the Commercial Landscapping division of Home Depot sells a non-name brand of RoundUp that is the exact same item sans the RoundUp name and label and therefore a lot cheaper. It is only sold in gallon bottles though, but we can always share with our "smart" neighbors. I just let the :stupid" ones remain stupid and suffer!


----------



## leehljp (May 29, 2009)

Wheaties said:


> After you cut the vines and dry them, the oil dries out and looses its effect. Any remaining oil that may be in there will be sealed off by a CA finish (i.e.). But after it is dry, it shouldn't have any effect, even if you are alergic.



Just a note to personally say that this is not true - at least 6 years of drying. A tree with a huge vine almost 2 inches in diameter is just down the street from my house in the States. The vine was cut at the base in 2000 when the owner died and the grown children cleaned the lot and started taking care of it. The yard was cleaned and those large trees were cleared of poison ivy growing from the ground. The Poision ivy vine was cut at the base and again at the 5 ft level but left hanging.

Fast forward to 2006. I wanted a piece and cut a foot long piece from that which was hanging down from the tree. DEAD. But the next day I was covered in a rash, face swollen, eyes red. At the doctor's office - The receptionist said (without looking directly at me) - sorry we are full up can't take any more today. Then she looked at me and immediately took me to a room. Shortest wait I ever had in a doctors office.

I am not as allergic to it as many people I know. I can walk through it generally and spray roundup as long as I wear long sleeves, pants and don't touch it. But that sawdust caused a critical reaction.


----------



## wdcav1952 (May 29, 2009)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheaties  
After you cut the vines and dry them, the oil dries out and looses its effect. Any remaining oil that may be in there will be sealed off by a CA finish (i.e.). But after it is dry, it shouldn't have any effect, even if you are alergic. 




leehljp said:


> Just a note to personally say that this is not true - at least 6 years of drying. A tree with a huge vine almost 2 inches in diameter is just down the street from my house in the States. The vine was cut at the base in 2000 when the owner died and the grown children cleaned the lot and started taking care of it. The yard was cleaned and those large trees were cleared of poison ivy growing from the ground. The Poision ivy vine was cut at the base and again at the 5 ft level but left hanging.
> 
> Fast forward to 2006. I wanted a piece and cut a foot long piece from that which was hanging down from the tree. DEAD. But the next day I was covered in a rash, face swollen, eyes red. At the doctor's office - The receptionist said (without looking directly at me) - sorry we are full up can't take any more today. Then she looked at me and immediately took me to a room. Shortest wait I ever had in a doctors office.
> 
> I am not as allergic to it as many people I know. I can walk through it generally and spray roundup as long as I wear long sleeves, pants and don't touch it. But that sawdust caused a critical reaction.



Actually, Lee, this is true.  The poison ivy does loose its effect on anyone allergic to it.  I do agree that it does not lose its effect, however. :glasses-nerdy:


----------



## Wheaties (May 29, 2009)

Actually, Lee, this is true. The poison ivy does loose its effect on anyone allergic to it. I do agree that it does not lose its effect, however. :glasses-nerdy:[/quote]


Wow......Didn't realize spelling was sooo critical here.


----------



## babyblues (May 29, 2009)

Well, the substance in poison ivy, as well as poison oak and sumac, that causes the allergic reaction is urushiol.  When you get this "stuff" on your skin, it actually absorbes into your skin and metabolizes or breaks down.  Your body's reaction is to try to destroy the foreign matter, but in doing so it also damages skin tissue, thus the rash.  The urushiol stays active for years so even if the plant is dry or dead and the oils in the plant are dried up, the urushiol is still there and if it gets airborn, it just becomes even more dangerous.  About 85% of people are allergic to it even though they might not develop a reaction the first time they're exposed to it.  It may take repeated exposure before an allergic reaction develops.  It's not immediate anyway.  It may take hours before you get a rash.  It's even called "delayed hypersensitivity".  Of course, the degree of sensitivity varies from one person to the next.

In short:  STAY AWAY FROM IT!!!!


----------



## GouletPens (May 29, 2009)

This has come up a few times before and the threads seem to always say the same thing: some people are gung-ho about trying something new and unique, and others think the risk is to high and the reward too low. Well, make one if you want but for me, I only make things out of rare, unique, and possibly toxic materials if it is going to look entirely awesome and I'm sure it won't hurt anyone. For me, poison ivy looks spectacularly plain. It's really kind of a novelty, but I can tell you I would never sell a pen made of something that so many people are allergic to....if someone wanted to sue you they would win in a second and take all your tools away. Maybe give one to your jerk of a boss on your last day, but not to a paying customer:tongue:


----------



## Rifleman1776 (May 29, 2009)

There may be worse ideas but it would take a lot of thinking to come up with one.
You can kill people with a piece of PI and put others into agony.
Bottom line: fuggitit.


----------



## devowoodworking (May 29, 2009)

Fred said:


> I can tell you a long story about carrying around a live HE grenade for many minutes and being surrounded by 100's of gasoline fuel tanks. But that is definitely for another time!


 
Okay, now you're starting to sound like 'Coach' on the most recent 'Survivor':biggrin:


----------



## byounghusband (May 29, 2009)

My neighbors were clearing their property at Lake Tawakoni, Tx., and another neighbor was helping.  They burned a bunch of bruch including P.I and the smoke nearly killed the other neighbor. 
His face swole up as did his hands and cajones 
He had breathing issues and his throat swelled. He was a sick dude for a few weeks.  
As has been said, NOT worth the risk all around!!!:wink:




Mudder said:


> This very thing happened to a dear friend of mine about 20 years ago. He was extremely critical for weeks and he almost died twice. To this day he still has difficulty breathing because of of the stupid mistake he made by burning a bunch of poison ivy.
> 
> I think the risk far outweighs the reward.


----------



## woodboys (May 29, 2009)

I think this is enough on this subject. When Cav stated about a child getting ahold of it and biting it that killed it for me. I know that babies love to chew pens and I would hate the thought of one getting hurt by me. 

On another note check out the thread I'm starting about burning brush since so many are familiar with that subject.


----------



## leehljp (May 29, 2009)

wdcav1952 said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by Wheaties
> After you cut the vines and dry them, the oil dries out and looses its effect. Any remaining oil that may be in there will be sealed off by a CA finish (i.e.). But after it is dry, it shouldn't have any effect, even if you are alergic.
> 
> ...



OK, but there is something that is left out of your equation - Just HOW LONG does it take for it to "Dry out" until it no longer affects/effects an allergy prone person? Simply saying that it "dries out" looses/loses its effect is Very Misleading as it does not address the "time" that it takes to "dry out" to the point of not being effective. One would think that 5 - 6 years would be enough. 

I had heard that, and that was one of the reasons that I decided to try it in 2006. Hey, it had been dead for 5 to 6 years! Big Mistake! 

Taking that a "face value" (and I did) I know that the swelling of my face was not imaginary. Neither was the shot, or the cost.


----------



## wdcav1952 (May 29, 2009)

Wheaties said:


> Actually, Lee, this is true. The poison ivy does loose its effect on anyone allergic to it. I do agree that it does not lose its effect, however. :glasses-nerdy:


 

Wow......Didn't realize spelling was sooo critical here.[/QUOTE]


Spelling and a sense of humor are both options here.


----------



## leehljp (May 29, 2009)

wdcav1952 said:


> Spelling and a sense of humor are both options here.



A Japanese mindset, even to a Southern redneck really distorts reality!  :biggrin: Your humor is well taken! Apologies for overlooking it! I was reading from a "medical" perspective for some reason. :wink:

I should have realized that you (the spelling and grammar king) knew EXACTLY what to write. :biggrin:  Hey, give me a couple of years, and after I have been back in the States a few months, maybe my mind will clear up - if that is possible!  :biggrin:


----------



## Fred (May 30, 2009)

Hank ... PLEASE don't start posting in Japanese just to avoid the "Spelling police" here. I know I will not be the only one to greatly appreciate you avoiding doing that to us.

Heck, I have enough problems trying to remember which sushi it is that I don't want to order ... and the menu even has pictures that should help me!

Cav and I have had a discussion recently about some of the humor that is found here and we both agree that it helps to have a very vivid imagination at times. He loves to catch spelling glitches and I like to complain about the rampant misuse of words, for instance like "there" vs "their, and my favorite bone scrubbing error, "I seen it ..." vs "I saw it ..." There are hundreds more, but I will not be reteaching the English language tonight ... or any other night either!


----------



## chriselle (May 30, 2009)

Fred said:


> Hank ... PLEASE don't start posting in Japanese just to avoid the "Spelling police" here. I know I will not be the only one to greatly appreciate you avoiding doing that to us.



Wouldn't bother me none!!:tongue:


----------



## leehljp (May 30, 2009)

Fred said:


> Hank ... PLEASE don't start posting in Japanese just to avoid the "Spelling police" here. I know I will not be the only one to greatly appreciate you avoiding doing that to us.
> 
> Heck, I have enough problems trying to remember which sushi it is that I don't want to order ... and the menu even has pictures that should help me!



Applogies in advance for hijacking this thread but I have to write this one:

A little over a year ago, I performed a wedding (in Japanese) for a lady that was a young girl when I first met her family 17 years ago. The wedding party was a multi-course meal repleat with all kinds of sushi/osashimi. (Osashimi is the actual word for the raw fish prepared for eating.) 

On about the 4th plate was what looked like the beginnings of dessert (at least to a red neck Southerner). One of the ornamental "foods" looked like a small white coconut covered candy ball. As soon as I put it in my mouth, LOML asked "Do you know what you are eating now?" At that second, I knew it wasn't sweet. She said you are eating a coated urchin. I have had urchin before but it wasn't as pleasing to the eye as that was. However, Neither was so great to the palate, or at least my palate. My stomach did handle it though.


----------



## wdcav1952 (May 30, 2009)

So Hank, if I understand you, you didn't "urp the urchin??"  :biggrin:


----------



## stoneman (May 30, 2009)

*A picture is worth 1000 words*

I'm an avid outdoorsman who had been exposed to poisen ivy numerous times over many years without any reaction. Then a couple years ago, I encountered some in late May while shed hunting. This was the reaction of someone exposed through long-legged denim jeans and who is not severly allergic. I'd hate to think what a really allergic reaction might be. Two weeks of antibiotic cream and I was good as new though - maybe a bit wiser :redface:


----------

