# Seeking Advice



## JDPens (Oct 22, 2007)

I am considering making a fountain pen for my sister for Christmas  and am in search of some advice on various processes, procedures, and ideas. I have almost no experience with fountain pens or their creation. [V]

Amy, my younger sister, (age 9) has recently become highly interested in calligraphy while already having a natural bent towards all things artistic. She has been using an old nib on a wooden stick that we have had in the school supplies for years. The ink has been some bottled ink that she found in the cabinet.

I had been in search of a Christmas idea for about month when Dad (NavyDiver) suggested that I make her a fountain pen for Christmas and purchase ink and possibly some specialty paper for her birthday (Dec. 27).

Here are different questions and comments regarding the topic:

[?] I'm looking at the Baron components purely for the reason that I already have bushings. If you would like to suggest something else, feel free.

[?] I am looking at making the pen out of a nicely figured piece of Cocobolo.

[?] What about a Calligraphy nib? Is that different from the stock nib?

[?] What would y'all suggest for ink?
I am thinking about giving her a couple of cartriges with the pen for Christmas, and then spending a little bit more money for some bottled ink for her birthday.
Isn't there some type of sampler of various inks available somewhere?

[?] What about paper? She has been using standard computer paper out of the printer. Would she be better off with either a specialty paper or a heavier weight paper?

[?] Cleaning: What kind of care is involved in a fountain pen? How intuitive is it?

Alright, that should get y'all started. 

Thanks in advance, I'm looking forward to everyone's comments. [8D]


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## tnilmerl (Oct 22, 2007)

Baron is very nice pen.  Excellent choice.

Cocobolo is a fine selection.

Calligraphy nib is different than stock nib.  Most kits have a general writing nib, usually in a medium or fine point.  Nibs writing sizes vary.  Your choice depends on your particular writing style and preference (or your sister's style).  A caligraphy nib is cut/ground differently.  Usually has a sharper angle on the nib to allow for precision formation of specific character styles (fonts).  Popular fonts are uncial and chancery.  Your sister will know.  These nibs also come in various sizes.  I don't know of any kits that come standard with a calligraphy nib.  I've seen websites where you can purchase replacement nibs.  Not cheap.  Usually more than an entire kit.

Not all inks are the same.  And calligraphy ink is NOT the same as regular fountain pen ink.  And India ink is not the same as calligraphy ink.  India ink in a regular fountian pen is too thick, and is doomed to failure.  You may end up tossing the nib.  So, know your ink.  There a numerous websites and business' that cater to calligraphers and fountain pen fans.

As far as paper goes, that is an subject could fill a book.  Ordinary computer paper 'may' work.  Depends on the ink.  Composition of the paper affects absorption and bleed characteristics.  Archival paper is usually blended for calligraphical applications.  Talk with someone in a stationary store.  Better paper has all different characteristics.  Paper from a computer printer is formulated to work best with inkjet printers.  Photocopier paper is suited for the toner that is heat fused to one surface of the paper.  You'll notice on the wrapper that the paper is to be loaded for a particular face to be printed upon.  Hobby shops (Michaels, Hobby Lobby, etc, ) sell calligraphy practice pads.

No special solvents are needed.  Most clean with straight water.  Some people recommend 3 drops of ammonia to a cup of water, but lately, a lot of experts have suggested straight cold water.  Storing a pen without ink helps with its longevity significantly.  No long exposure to heat or direct sunlight (don't leave your pen on the dash of a car).  I store mine in a pen tray in a cabinet (after cleaning and  prepping for storage).

Talk to some others and get their input.


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## Scott (Oct 22, 2007)

Hi Josh!

Travis did a great job answering your questions.  I applaud your interest in making a fountain pen for your sister, and I encourage you to make one for yourself while you're at it.  Fountain pens are a lot of fun to write with.  The company that does the ink sampler program is Pear Tree Pens (www.peartreepens.com).  But Lou and Anthony here at IAP also sell ink, and would probably be willing to help you with suggestions.  Find out what her favorite color is!

I look forward to seeing the pen you make for her.  I bet it will be great!

Scott.


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## mrcook4570 (Oct 22, 2007)

A dip pen with a variety of nibs would be more versatile for calligraphy.  Inserts are available to accept speedball type nibs.  

To my knowledge, there is only one calligraphy nib available for the kit fountain pens.


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## Firefyter-emt (Oct 22, 2007)

Josh, there is a kit at Michaels Craft Supply stores that fit our pens if I remember corectly. I saw a set there just the other day for under $10.00. This package had a "body" and the same nib holder's that our's had, at least a very close match. It was black plastic and I can't remeber if it was an exact thread or not.  It was posted here about a yeat ago, so a search might just find the post.

You could also make a dip pen with one of the holders that have been sold here. They fit perfectly in a 7mm tube and if I am correct, the speedball nibs sold at Michaels fit perfect into them.  If you want one of the holders to put in a 7mm tube let me know, I have a couple and will give you one if you like.  This would be best designed as a "boxed set" to hold extra nibs, the dip pen, and inks.  How about making her a normal Baron FP and then with the nib holder, make her a matching dip pen for callagraphy work? You could put both of them in a 2 pen holder box??

Either way, if you need a holder, just drop me a line!


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## Firefyter-emt (Oct 22, 2007)

Here is a good posts for some dip pens I found.  I was not able to find that post about the Michaels pen conversion, maybe someone remembers it or made the pen itself and will post up.

http://www.penturners.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=24017&SearchTerms=calligraphy


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## bjackman (Oct 22, 2007)

Josh,
I'm going to go against the grain here from what most seem to be telling you.
Pen:
I say go with the baron and get a calligraphy nib from CSU to go along with it. It's only about 5 bucks for the nib. I used the CSU calligraphy nib in a baron for a year or so as my "daily user" pen. All kinds of people used to comment on my handwriting, and let me tell you, it's not always pretty, but the calligraphy nib actually made my chickenscratch look unique. It takes a little more thought to write with one of these nibs, at first, as you can't really tilt the pen side to side or the slit lifts off the paper and you stop writing, but with a little time it becomes second nature.
INK:
If you know what her favorite color is go for a bottle in something near that color. Decent bottles of ink can be had for $6-10 and if she's doing quite a bit of playing around with calligraphy techniques she could go through some of the $4 samples pretty quick. 
Paper:
I'll go the same direction with paper here, for general practice most plain white copy paper should be just fine. Hey, it's not the best, but for lots and lots of practice and only a few cents, there you go. When she wants to do something special she can move to better paper.

Ok, so for a chrome baron FP kit you're talking $13 since you probably already have a cocobolo blank around (probably a dozen, right? [}] ) let's say $1 for the blank. $5 for the calligraphy nib and $8 for a bottle of ink that will keep her in blue/red/purple/whatever color fingertips for a couple months and for $27 you've just given her a present she very well may treasure and actually USE on a daily basis for years or decades to come.
What's not to like?


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## holmqer (Oct 22, 2007)

A couple of thoughts...

Travis did an excellent write up but missed one key point on the difference between India ink and fountain pen ink. FP ink is water soluable, India ink is not. This is why you can clean a FP with just water and India ink ruins the feed.

Paper and ink tend to be somewhat complicated subject as some FP inks can feather badly with some papers but be great with others.

Some papers are well known to be FP ink friendly like Bernier, Clairefontaine, G Lalo, Miquel Rius and Rhodia just to name a few. Ink jet paper actually is not a bad option as it is cheap and has to resist feathering of the ink droplets.

On the nib front, calligraphy nibs come in various widths. If you want to make one really nice body and have a set of nibs, you could go with a modest priced calligraphy set and mate it up with a beautiful body, or go with something novel like a Sailor Super Script and just match the nib, feed and section with your handywork. The Super Script has an interesting nib the writes with varying widths based on writing angle.

http://www.pendemonium.com/images/pens/sailor/saisuperscripttext.jpg

You should be able to get your hands on one of these for ~$15

I will admit that the writing angle trick may require too much manual dexterity for a 9 year old unless she is a good artist.


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## leehljp (Oct 22, 2007)

And a third opinion: I made five calligraphy pens a year ago for some ladies. I ordered the Americana because the lady wanted a smaller diameter pen. The Americana finishes to 1/2 inch. I also had a choice with another that I cannot find now but very similar to the Artisan at CSUSA. The Artisan is 7/16 in finished diameter and may fit smaller hands better.

The Calligraphy nibs were ordered from CSUSA also.

- Not an opinion on what to make but throwing other options and considerations on the table.


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## Randy_ (Oct 23, 2007)

Josh:  There have been a lot of good thoughts expressed here so you have plenty to think about.  To me, it seems like you need to have another chat with your Dad and make a basic decision.....whether to make a fountain pen or to make a calligraphy dip pen.  And although it is fun to give surprise gifts, it may be that ultimately you have a chat with little sister and see what type of pen she would prefer.

A fountain pen with a calligraphy point.....and there is only one point readily available.....is a whole lot different from a calligraphy dip pen that will accept a wide variety of different points.  While I agree with BillyJ that a fountain pen with a basic calligraphy point will greatly enhance one's daily handwriting..... I've had exactly the same experience, myself.....I suspect that a nine year old is still mostly using a pencil for whatever daily writing tasks are required of her.

From your original comment, it seems your sister is more oriented to the artistic end of the writing art rather than to the daily routine part.  That being the case a dip pen with with a variety of tips would give her a much broader range of opportunities to explore her artistic interests.  There is a guy on IAP...don't remember his name right off hand; but will look it up for you.....who sells the hardware that holds the calligraphy tips and you could turn a holder simliar in style to this one done by our friend Darley in Australia.






I'm sure you will do an excellent job regardless of which you choose and do remember this is not an either or situation.  You could do the calligraphy pen now and if her interest continues, you could do a fountain pen next Christmas.


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## gerryr (Oct 23, 2007)

I would recommend either Private Reserve Arabian Rose or Plum.  I bet she would like either, maybe even both.


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## Randy_ (Oct 23, 2007)

Josh:  Here is the link to the thread where nib holders were offered for sale.

http://www.penturners.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=27404&whichpage=1&SearchTerms=nibs

Buying a single nib holder from the original seller would cost you 34Â¢ plus a PP fee of $1.25 plus shipping of $3.50 which would be a little steep for just one holder.  Maybe one of the guys who purchased 10 or 20 will be willing to sell you a single holder for a better price.

The other possibility would be to check with a Michael's craft store or something similar to see if they have the holders.  You might also be able to buy an inexpensive dip pen complete,scavenge the holder and turn a nice wooden handle for it??


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## Randy_ (Nov 6, 2007)

Hey Josh:

Don't keep us in the dark.  What did you decide to do?


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## GaryMGg (Nov 6, 2007)

Josh,

The point that sticks with me from your OP is this: 





> Amy ... has recently become highly interested in calligraphy while already having a natural bent towards all things artistic.


To me that says make her a pen that can hold the calligraphy nibs.
As a child, I got into calligraphy -- A fountain pen is nice but it's not a calligraphy pen. I'd make her something that'd hold the Speedball calligraphy nibs and get her a set of nibs and a lettering book.
Paper for lettering: cotton. Cranes. Mmmm, mmmm. [] Ain't cheap though.


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## Firefyter-emt (Nov 7, 2007)

Yep, I agree there 100%... That is why I mentioned a boxed set with both.

Oh, and Randy.. I did offer to send Josh a freebe on the nib holder up top, but just in case he missed it I figured I would mention that offer still stands, heck I will even toss in one of those nibs if ya like Josh. Just add your slimline tube I blank and you are ready to go!


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## Randy_ (Nov 7, 2007)

Thanks for repeating the offer, Lee.  Very generous.  I must admit that I overlooked your first offer.  Maybe Josh did, too??


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## DCBluesman (Nov 7, 2007)

FYI, I sent Josh a CS USA calligraphy nib, a piston pump and several ink cartridges.  He replied right away and very respectfully.  With school, homework, chores and other things to keep him busy, he may not have followed up with this thread.


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## NavyDiver (Nov 9, 2007)

Lou, you are right, Josh has been swamped this week with school work and chores.  I'll prod him to check his thread .  Thanks very much for taking care of him.


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## JDPens (Nov 9, 2007)

Hey Everyone,
Sorry it has taken me so long to get back to posting, but like Dad said, I've been swamped with school, sibling care, chores, and prepping for my January mission trip to Honduras.

Okay, my plan (or at least plan A):

Mr. Metcalf has graciously sent me the CSUSA Calligraphy Nib for a Baron FP.

I did in fact miss Mr. Thomas's idea of a Baron FP and Dip Pen set and intend to take him up on his offer of a nib holder. 

That idea seems to have potential and is what I am beginning to lean toward.

I already have experience with Barons so that is a non-issue, and so I would only have to learn how to make a closed-end pen (of which I know the general idea). 

Another positive thing is I won't be putting all of my eggs in the same basket and be rushing to get it done (thereby increasing accident potential) at the last minute if something goes wrong with the dip pen

Something else that came to mind while typing this is that I could split the gift and give her one pen for Christmas and one pen for her birthday (Dec. 27).

Well, I think that is where I sort of am with my plan.
What do y'all think?

Thank you very much for all of your advice already, your input is much appreciated.


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## DCBluesman (Nov 9, 2007)

In the words of the immortal "Mr. T", I LOVE IT WHEN A PLAN COMES TOGETHER! [8D]


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## IPD_Mrs (Nov 10, 2007)

Lou you need to freshen up on your TV Pop Culture.  It was not Mr T but rather Hannibal (George Peppard) who used that line.

Mr T did the "I pitty the fool".


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## Firefyter-emt (Nov 10, 2007)

Josh.. I replied to you e-mail, no problem sending out the nib holder.  I might be able to help you out for the closed end design for the dip pen. All you need is a 1/4" pin chuck. I think I have some stock that can be used to make one. If you have an adjustable pen mandrel, collet chuck or even a drill chuck that can be held in the headstock then you are good to go. If the small rod stock I have is 1/4" I can whip one op on my metal lathe, if it's larger I will turn it down and make it so the step bushing is part of the pin chuck.

This 1/4" shaft could also be used for any 1/4" pen if there is room to slip a bushing on the shaft and still hold the pen blank.  

Let me know what you have to hold something like this. If you only have the mandrel that the rod threads into, well... you are out of luck!


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