# PSI Sculptured Pen Kits - fit issues



## TonyL (May 18, 2014)

A good friend purchased several pens from me and another several for o her friends at work. As a way to express my gratitude, I asked her to pick out any pen she wanted and I will make it for her. She picked the PSI Sculptured pen kit (and letter opener). I order two (one as a b/u).

I am finding the cap insert to fit loosely within the tube (CA/epoxy will fix) and the coupler that joins the transmission to the lower barrel to fit loosely - again, will be remedied with glue. I am using the tube that came with the kit, but without glue these components can easily be separated by hand.

Anyone else have this experience?

Here's the kit:

Sculptured 24kt Gold Twist Pen Kit at Penn State Industries

Thank you!


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## Joe S. (May 18, 2014)

I heard that was a problem, so I never bought the kits. However, loosening up components and gluing them in is seen as a good practice here, so go figure. :biggrin:


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## TonyL (May 18, 2014)

Yes..it was included in thee majority of the reviews, including the one that I just left. But that is the pen she wanted, so I made it. It came out nice, but don't like gluing around a finished pen. PSI should do the right thing and give some type of credit - not saying 100% refund, but something. 

So far, I have been more please with the CSUSA kits, but again, most are lower end, so I guess you get what you pay for.

Thanks for your reply.


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## PenMan1 (May 18, 2014)

Two things, Tony.

I've made hundreds of these, and at first I had problems. Now, they fit precisely.

Thing one. are you using a pen mill or barrel trimmer? If so, you really SHOULDN'T BE using it with these sets. These sets leave so little "meat" on the blank that the tube allows for a "slip fit". If this hardware pressed "hard" like slim lines, etc, it would leave a ridge or "hump"  on the blank. Using a pen mill and barrel trimmer "bugles" the joints and makes for sloppy work. Sanding the ends square or using a skew to square up ends really is a preferred method with this hardware.

Thing two. Have you considered assembling with red Loctite thread sealant? Epoxy sure holds, but if you ever have to make hardware changes OR if you see a small finishing or sizing error that you would like to correct on an assembled pen, it's about a 99 percent chance you will crack an epoxied blank trying to disassemble. With thread sealant, a minute under a warm hair dryer and the pen can easily be disassembled.

These Parker type refill sets have been a BIG seller for me for years. They write much better than cross type refills. The slimmer design allows for better balance in smaller female hands. And many women love the sculpted embellishments.

Good luck. Respectfully submitted.


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## TonyL (May 18, 2014)

Thank you very ,much. Yes, I am useng a BT and I have never used red loctite thread sealant, but will get some. Here's a dumb question...these are all slip fittings, will the loctite still work?


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## PenMan1 (May 18, 2014)

Yes, after sanding the tube ends flush, Loctite usually is sufficient for locking the pen together. Incidentally, I use red thread sealant on every press together pen I make. Occasionally, one will be loose enough to require epoxy.

One thing to be mindful of when using Loctite OR epoxy, if you get the sealant or glue in the nib cavitity, it will keep the refill from retracting. So be sure to clean any glue or sealant residue before it dries.


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## Joe S. (May 18, 2014)

I'm pretty sure it will, although I've never actually tried it.


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## TonyL (May 18, 2014)

Thank you. I was going to use medium CA (not epoxy)..do you think the medium CA with work? Or should i get the red loctite?


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## PenMan1 (May 18, 2014)

TonyL said:


> Thank you. I was going to use medium CA (not epoxy)..do you think the medium CA with work? Or should i get the red loctite?



Do not EVER use CA to glue in plated hardware pieces. The off gas process of that occurs when CA cures will destroy the plating. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but this will most times cause problems with plating. It is pronounced in Gold TN platings, but can effect all platings.


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## TonyL (May 18, 2014)

Thank you for the heads-up. So either a dab of epoxy or loctite?
I have used CA on the unexposed plated areas without a problem so far, but will defer to your experience and advice.


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## Whaler (May 18, 2014)

If you think that you may ever have to disassemble the pen do not use red Loktite use the blue, the red is about the same as using epoxy.


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## PenMan1 (May 18, 2014)

The CA problem of tarnishing plating seems to be worst with the "chemical" platings like TN and Rhodium. I've previously used CA to glue in chrome hardware without issue. But after having a half dozen pens come back with a sickening "dull, off color tarnish" where glue directly contacted the platings I simply switched to epoxy......also a messy glue mistake is much Mose easily corrected with epoxy.

I don't use CA, at all unless it's for a wood pen (which I hardly make anymore) finish. IMHO, CA is not a permanent glue and will turn loose after a few years. I make pens for sale, so I just don't chance it.

Your mileage may vary.


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## PenMan1 (May 18, 2014)

Whaler said:


> If you think that you may ever have to disassemble the pen do not use red Loktite use the blue, the red is about the same as using epoxy.



Dick:
I've found that touching a solder pencil to the joint or holding the joint under a warm hair dryer makes red Loctite just as easy to remove as the blue.


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## TonyL (May 18, 2014)

Thanks you both. What is the blue Loctite called?


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## PenMan1 (May 18, 2014)

Still just thread sealant. The blue has a blue dot on the tube, the red has a red dot on the tube. 

I use the Marine red (waterproof) Loctite because I was in the boat business for years and we used it for EVERYTHING on a boat and I had tubes laying around everywhere.
I forget the number of the regular red and blue... I'll look it up


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## PenMan1 (May 18, 2014)

Regular red threadlocker is#271 and can be found at any hardware store or HD.

Loctite blue is # 242

DO NOT USE THE BLACK!!!!! It is permanent.


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## TonyL (May 18, 2014)

Thank you. Blue or red it i.

I used my 12 hour setting stick fast epoxy on the nib, tomorrow one that cures; I will use the blue or red in the transmission coupling. Thank you...you guys are great!


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## sbell111 (May 18, 2014)

First, let me state my standard 'what's the best way' response:

With nearly every step of the pen making process, there are as many valid ways to complete it as there are people giving advice. Some of these people can be very forthright about how their way is the best and only way, but that doesn't make it so.

Find what works for you and do it that way. If you are having problems with something, post your issue and plenty of people will chime in with possible fixes. Choose a fix that works for you.

That being said, while Andy certainly did speak with authority and certitude, I disagree with two of his basic positions.

First, his statement that pen mills should not be used because they 'bugle' the tube and, therefore, cause some kind of destruction is not my experience.  While I have no idea what 'bugling' the tube is,the proper use of a pen mill will not have any negative effects on the tube.  Over milling the tube, obviously will result in negative outcomes.

Second, his statement that CA will always cloud platings is incorrect and merely shows a misunderstanding in why CA does this.  CA will cloud the tube if it is allowed to cure without ventilation.  If you glue a pen together and stick it right into a gift box, it will definitely cloud the platings.  However, if you glue the same pen together and place it in a well-ventilated location, it will not cloud.

I always use CA to glue in loose fittings.  I also use CA when assembling my non-kit styluses and cartridge pens and I have made hundreds of these.  I have not had a single problem with clouding because I keep a two dollar USB fan on the workbench.  If I glue parts together, I keep the resulting pen on the workbench in the slight breeze from the USB fan for a day or so.


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## nativewooder (May 18, 2014)

I did not see where you called the Vendor to see what the problem is or whether they would just replace the kits.  If you spent your $$ with them, they are obligated to make restitution or solve the problem.  You can get 50 or 100 different suggestions from the members, but they are not responsible, whereas the Vendor is.


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## PenMan1 (May 18, 2014)

Thanks for your input Steve. As usual, I disagree with EVERYTHING you said in your post.

Secondly, I don't know how many PSI Sculpted sets you've made . I don't even know how many I've made in the 7 years that I've been selling pens. My best guess is that it is thousands,yes thousands with an "s". Just a quick check shows I've ALREADY sold well over a hundred of them in the first four months of this year. It is a great entry level item for me and it sells well. 

This set DOES have issues with the tubes. But as I responded to the OP, by NOT using a barrel trimmer, but by sanding instead eliminated the issues I have with this pen.

Next, I'm glad that you haven't experienced warranty issues (that you know of,anyway) with CA and plating issues. Also, I'm glad that you haven't had issues with CA "letting go" after a period of time, I've HAD THESE ISSUES. 

Selling more than 3,000 pens per year for more than the last five years, I simply WOULDN'T use products or techniques that have been proven failures. During that time, I've had NO failures (that I know of) resulting in failures of Epoxy glue or Loctite threadlocker. OR for that matter those misfitted, misaligned ends that frequently occur from using pen mills. Even farther, I DO purchase other people 's pens that I like or find fascinating. I WOULD NEVER knowingly purchase a pen that I knew to be assembled with CA.

My post was an effort to help someone avoid the pitfalls that I've encountered over the years and make the product in a way that I know works.

As usual, I will continue you to take any of your contributions with "a grain of salt", as I know you will do the same with mine. Simply stated, the two of us will NEVER AGREE ON ANYTHING about pen making.


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## sbell111 (May 18, 2014)

PenMan1 said:


> Thanks for your input Steve. As usual, I disagree with EVERYTHING you said in your post.
> 
> Secondly, I don't know how many PSI Sculpted sets you've made . I don't even know how many I've made in the 7 years that I've been selling pens. My best guess is that it is thousands,yes thousands with an "s". Just a quick check shows I've ALREADY sold well over a hundred of them in the first four months of this year. It is a great entry level item for me and it sells well.
> 
> ...


You will note that I didn't say that problems with milling tubes or using CA couldn't exist.  I merely stated that the problems are issues of technique, not product.  If a person doesn't mill properly, he will create problems with the tubes.  If the person doesn't properly prepare the tubes and properly glue them in, he will have problems with glue 'letting go'.  If the person doesn't prepare for the fact that CA will off gas, he will have problems with cloudy plating.

However, if a person uses proper technique, he will not have any of these problems.  Ever.

It should be noted that the comment that I merely haven't had warranty issues related to this 'that I know of' is a red herring because these problems would almost always show themselves prior to the sale.  Improperly prepared and glued tubes 'letting go' would show themselves on the lathe (quite energetically, usually).  Tubes damaged during milling and not rehabilitated would result in issues during assembly.  CA clouding plating would show itself within a day or two since that is when CA off gasses.  Therefore, only pens turned a day or so prior to sale are at risk of developing a problem.


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## Jim Burr (May 18, 2014)

Hey look!!! 
http://www.penturners.org/forum/f14/victorian-fit-issue-122745/

It's the same issue just a couple weeks ago!!


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## Holz Mechaniker (May 18, 2014)

IF you really want to make sure things stay were they should.  Use Loc-tite Green....  That is what Gunsmiths use when they put a rifled sleeve to reline a gun barrel.


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## TonyL (May 18, 2014)

*PSI Returns*



nativewooder said:


> I did not see where you called the Vendor to see what the problem is or whether they would just replace the kits.  If you spent your $$ with them, they are obligated to make restitution or solve the problem.  You can get 50 or 100 different suggestions from the members, but they are not responsible, whereas the Vendor is.



I plan to keep the kit (just use the glue). I don't think it is fair for me to keep it and get a replacement or refund - not that you were suggesting that. I only bought two kits. I did see that the majority of reviews "complained" about the kit's fit, but that is what my friend wanted and I will make it work. I just wanted to know if any IAP folks shared the same experience. And true  IAP from, I received a variety of opinions/advice which I greatly appreciate (and need!).


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## TonyL (May 18, 2014)

*Thanks Jim*



Jim Burr said:


> Hey look!!!
> http://www.penturners.org/forum/f14/victorian-fit-issue-122745/
> 
> It's the same issue just a couple weeks ago!!



I guess I am not the only one.


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## Joe S. (May 18, 2014)

You two are funny when you get going. :biggrin:


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## TonyL (May 18, 2014)

Next time I will ask something less emotionally-charged like who to vote for in 2016 or healthcare . 

As a beginner, I invite and love to hear the variety of opinions and experiences: good stuff and all well-intentioned. This an outstanding group of hobbyists and professionals. 

Ok...going to the shop to apply a little Red 271. I will let  all know if anything explodes!


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## OLDMAN5050 (May 19, 2014)

Tony I have not had a problem with the PSI sculptured kits, I would use red locktite if I did,, I put all of the troop pens together with the locktite because I don't want them to come apart being shipped overseas and the temperature changes that come along with shipping. The pen can still be dissembled using a heat gun to heat the joint.


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## TonyL (May 19, 2014)

Thanks Dave. I used the red 271 last night. I am just giving it the full 24 hours to cure (per the directions). I probably don't need to, but don't want to risk breaking the bond. Have a great one!


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## TonyL (May 20, 2014)

Back to the pen in question

Red loctite worked like a charm on the transmission coupling, and the epoxy worked like a charm on the nib. HOWEVER (not yelling, just emphasizing), despite using a very small amount of epoxy to secure the nib to the tube, a small amount of epoxy must have squeeze out and cured on the inside of the lower end (near the nib connection) and will not allow the parker refill all of the way through. I tried knocking out the nib, but it is in there (like a good epoxy joint should). Any ideas?  long file, some acetone on the end of a transfer punch, a blow torch  ?


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## sbell111 (May 20, 2014)

TonyL said:


> Back to the pen in question
> 
> Red loctite worked like a charm on the transmission coupling, and the epoxy worked like a charm on the nib. HOWEVER (not yelling, just emphasizing), despite using a very small amount of epoxy to secure the nib to the tube, a small amount of epoxy must have squeeze out and cured on the inside of the lower end (near the nib connection) and will not allow the parker refill all of the way through. I tried knocking out the nib, but it is in there (like a good epoxy joint should). Any ideas?  long file, some acetone on the end of a transfer punch, a blow torch  ?



Properly sized drill bit, chucked, but turned by hand.


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## TonyL (May 20, 2014)

Yes...I was thinking of that. I just need the affirmation. Thank you!


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## TonyL (May 20, 2014)

Worked great Steve!
Probably...better off with red locktite assuming I don't have to fill gaps.  Thanks again!


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## sbell111 (May 20, 2014)

I still prefer CA.  A single drop of thick or gel CA will lock on the loose fitting without risk of gumming up the works.


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## PenMan1 (May 20, 2014)

TonyL said:


> Back to the pen in question
> 
> Red loctite worked like a charm on the transmission coupling, and the epoxy worked like a charm on the nib. HOWEVER (not yelling, just emphasizing), despite using a very small amount of epoxy to secure the nib to the tube, a small amount of epoxy must have squeeze out and cured on the inside of the lower end (near the nib connection) and will not allow the parker refill all of the way through. I tried knocking out the nib, but it is in there (like a good epoxy joint should). Any ideas?  long file, some acetone on the end of a transfer punch, a blow torch  ?



I keep a 22 caliber brass bristle cleaning rod on the workbench. As soon as I Loctite or Epoxy, I run the bore cleaner into the barrel and down to the nib. As soon as the bristle brush comes out, I run a long "QTip" or culture swab down the barrel. This works like a champ for me.


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## TonyL (May 20, 2014)

I did get it with the drill but I do have a gun cleaning kit. Forgot all about that. Thanks for the suggestion.


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## rblakemore (May 20, 2014)

*PSI sculpted slips also*

My wife and I like the PSI sculpted a lot and have sold a bunch.  But, we have had two instances where the coupler for the lower barrel slips.  I have used a little CA for both and it works well.  From what I read above, I will switch to red Loctite to ensure that the components will fit together tightly and I will still be able to disassemble when needed.
I will keep using the sculpted pen, just too good.


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## TonyL (May 20, 2014)

It is a "handsome" kit.


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## WriteON (May 25, 2014)

PSI has good customer service. Let them know what is going on. They want to know. They honor reasonable issues(complaints.) PSI is a first class vendor and likes satisfied customers.


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## TonyL (May 25, 2014)

*Sculptured Pen Kit*

It came out fine after using red loc-tite. I wouldn't expect a refund or a replacement if I was able to use the kit. I will leave my experience in a rating.


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## Holz Mechaniker (May 26, 2014)

rblakemore said:


> My wife and I like the PSI sculpted a lot and have sold a bunch.  But, we have had two instances where the coupler for the lower barrel slips.  I have used a little CA for both and it works well.  From what I read above, I will switch to red Loctite to ensure that the components will fit together tightly and I will still be able to disassemble when needed.
> I will keep using the sculpted pen, just too good.



NO you won't be able to disassemble if you use Red Loctite.  the only way is to use heat. and LOTS of it.  
A kid in my sons Auto Shop Class put red loctite on his lugs... needless to say when my son told me that I just about poo'd myself from laughing..  Once I collected myself I explained that he will have to torch them to cherry red to get them off so he best pray that he never gets a flat.


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## sbell111 (May 26, 2014)

Holz Mechaniker said:


> rblakemore said:
> 
> 
> > My wife and I like the PSI sculpted a lot and have sold a bunch.  But, we have had two instances where the coupler for the lower barrel slips.  I have used a little CA for both and it works well.  From what I read above, I will switch to red Loctite to ensure that the components will fit together tightly and I will still be able to disassemble when needed.
> ...


it's going to be easier to just break the lugs off and replace them, I bet.


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## TonyL (May 26, 2014)

The Loc-tite rep on the company website is seen using a propane torch....but that is to remove a large bolt. I would think it is a function of volume used, surface area, fit, etc.

How to Disassemble & Remove Loctite Red High Strength Threadlocker - YouTube


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## jcm71 (Jun 20, 2014)

I had been following this thread with interest, before it devolved into a debate on the virtues of red and blue Loctite versus CA, as I had recently ordered the Sculpted Pen starter set from PSI.  
Just got around to making  two yesterday (19 Jun) and experienced the same loose fit issues as described in the OP.  What I did not see discussed in this thread was the center band.  Of the three I have made, all three CBs slipped on too easily without pressing, and I could remove them by hand.  Blue Loctite to  the rescue on all three.   The third pen is still incomplete.  When I tried to press the cap and clip into the cap holder, all I succeeded in doing was push the cap holder further down the tube.  Right now I'm just letting it sit for a couple of hours before I try again.  Nice looking pen, but all the press components are a skosh too small for the tubes.  As a comparison, the Princess nib and coupler band press nicely, and there is no way to get a Perfect Fit CB off once it's pressed on, although a PF's nib and coupler band could use a Loctite boost.


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## TonyL (Jun 20, 2014)

I am glad it worked!


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