# Coughing  - killing myself slowly with saw dust?



## jtate (Jun 6, 2006)

Is this a problem for others.  I'm wearing the mask - consistently -and a good quality mask, I'm leaving both doors open in the workshop for ventilation, I wheel the lathe outside to work when weather permits, I sweep up regularly, I don't have a fan running in there most of the time, and STILL, after cutting for a while, I cough for several days.  Sometimes it's so back my voice cracks like an adolescent boy's voice.  I joke about coughing up a 2x4 but, really, I'm a little concerned.

I'm very careful about sweeping up and wearing the mask and only working for short periods of time (an hour or less) when cutting antler because I know that's dangerous.  And I always shower afterwards so that the remaining dust goes down the drain not in the air in my home.

I don't cut stone - I know malachite dust can be fatal.

I have been working in a lovely flame box elder and I understand the red color is because of a fungus from a beetle.  Can one be allergic to this?







Does anyone else have this problem?  Do you have any solutions?  If not, anyone wanna buy a lathe - cheap - I anticipate my estate salke will include one soon!

Julia


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## PenWorks (Jun 6, 2006)

Very nice bowl....I hope it doesn't turn out to be your Urn [:0]
I would suggest you get one of those air filtration masks. It sounds like you are
very sensetive to wood dust. Everyone is different, I only wear a mask have the time I turn, even though I know I should allways wear one, but I have no effects from it.


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## Bob A (Jun 6, 2006)

Julia, I don't have the coughing fits, but I do get serious sinus problems when doing a lot of sanding.  I bought a Triton respirator and it works great, no more problems(as long as I put it on[]).  It is bulky and confining, but I would rather wear it than sell my lathe.


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## Rifleman1776 (Jun 6, 2006)

Almost any substance will cause allergic symptoms in some people. You are right to be concerned about the red mold, it could be a cause of your distress. I use the Dust Bee Gone mask with success. Others have still experienced problems with some dusts when using it. As said, a respirator may be your only alternative. Be safe.


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## mrcook4570 (Jun 6, 2006)

The addition of a dust collector can also help to prevent dust from reaching your lungs.


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## PenWorks (Jun 6, 2006)

I have been researching a new dust collection system for my new shop.
A cyclone DC is the only way to go. Here is a great link with some good info.

http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/CycloneVacuumPlan.cfm


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## huntersilver (Jun 6, 2006)

I use a hanging Jet air filtration system when I work, it hangs about 4 feet over the lathe area.  You might want to try that. I change the filters quite often as they get caked on with fine dust.  Better on the filter than my lungs!

I too only use the mask some of the time, as I use my face shield when turning, but a maks always when sanding.


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## Dario (Jun 6, 2006)

Get a descent Dust Collector ...and even with that I still recommend that you use face mask while sanding.  I use 3M brand and they work fine for me.

Also make sure that the DC filter is rated for less than 3 microns (preferrably 1 micron or less).  Mine came with 10 microns and it is basically useless.  I replaced mine with finer filter, though it reduced the CFM, the air that's coming out is really clean (not foggy like before).


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## Daniel (Jun 6, 2006)

O.K. here goes, this will probably be far more info than anyone cares to get in one post. i will keep it as short and sweet as possible, anyone wanting more info on this please e-mail me.
first it is not the messy sawdust that can be swept up that is the problem. anything that is heavy enough to land on a surface and stay there in even a half minute or so is not what will fill your lungs. it is the very fine talcum powder stuff that needs to be removed from the air. problem is it gets in the air from the tiniest of drafts. is kept in the air by just normal air movement and is to small for most filters to catch.
 the air filter mentioned above is a good idea, problem is it takes several hours to remove the dust once it is there. and is a bit like closing the barn door after the horses have gotten out. after all the idea is to keep the dust out of the air in the first place.
running fans usually results in just stirring the dusty air and not really getting it out of the shop. unless yoru shop works like a wind tunnel it is most likely stirring the air around in eddys making sure you have ample opportunity to breath in all the dust. 
if you rely only on a dust mask, keep this in mind. you need to keep the mask on till after you are out of the shop. then store it in a place that the dusty air will not contaminate the inside of it. like in the house in a plastic bag. it doesn't do much good to take your mask off and then lay it around in the shop to get filled with the very dust you are trying to avoid.
the best way to avoid the dust at all is with a dust collector. one with a very good filter that will capture the fine dust. for a lathe it needs to move something int he order of 900 Cubic Feet of air per minute. this requires 6" duct work at the very least. remember you are not trying to get the chips and sawdust that will fall to the floor. you want the little stuff that shows up in the sunlight shining through a window.
next, and this is just a intuition thing, make sure you don't have something going on with your inner ear. maybe the sounds produced in the shop are irritating an otherwise mild infection or something. sort of like digging in your ear with a Q-tip will cause you to cough. other things can tickle your ear as well. maybe ear muffs are the answer. very mild sinus irritation will do the same thing. I know that sounds way out there but in my experience it really isn't that's why I bothered to mention it.
lastly, and this is the one you don't want to hear. there are people that develop respritory problems from working in the shop or other activities. that one should be left up to doctors to determin and manage. there are things that can be done but they have to be tailored to each specific case.
hope the answer is simple and good luck


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## Gary Max (Jun 6, 2006)

I hate to add this post because your work is very nice--- which show off your skills and passion.
If the side affects of the dust are that strong---I would stop woodworking. Your health is more inportant.
Trend makes a great Airsheild.


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## epson (Jun 6, 2006)

I also use the Jet air filtration system which works great.  I also use my shop vacuum as a dust collector and take a suction with a lathe dust hood.  My shop is pretty clean as far as dust goes.  It is pretty disorganized though.


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## Ron in Drums PA (Jun 6, 2006)

Get a good dust collector and one of these


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## Tom McMillan (Jun 6, 2006)

My cause of death will likely be due to the wood dust I've inhaled over the years.  A few years ago I moved into the mobile home court where I live now, and built a very small shop.  At that time I installed one of the small Delta dust collectors and hung it off the wall.  I got the smaller tubing from sears, and it works extremely well---I wear a face shield only when I'm turning and I don't notice any problems with wood dust like I used to without it.  I don't like the restriction of a dust mask (personal preference), and perhaps I'll pay for that---but I do know I'm gonna die happy when I pass on.  Turning has been the "Zest" of my life.


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## Tanner (Jun 6, 2006)

Being an exterminator, respirators are important. Although with the new chemicals, we don't use masks much more.  The best light weight one we still buy are these http://www.westpacmarine.com/msa/comfo.asp.  They are $30 and you can buy different cartridges for them, organic vapors etc.  They are mad by the Mine Safety people so you know they are good and very comfortable, hence the Comfo Respirator.


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## woodbutcher (Jun 6, 2006)

If you don't have an excellent air filtration system...... you are one.
Jim


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## JimQ (Jun 7, 2006)

I have to fully agree with Jim Bell.  I have seen people pay doctors thousands of dollars for medical care because they didn't believe in wearing respiratory protection.  My AirShield was cheap at $260.

JimQ


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## wade (Jun 9, 2006)

I use the Trend Airshield (http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=4923).  It is a great shield and I don't have any bulky hoses hanging down or anything hanging on my belt.  I have tried respirator masks but can't use them because of neck injury years ago.  My neck can't handle things strapped behind it.  The Trend Airshield is light and comfortable to wear for long periods (1 hour or more at a shot).  I also got one of the Shop Vac air filters from Menards which really eliminates the fine dust from sanding.

Wade in MN


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## Scottydont (Jun 9, 2006)

I use an overhead Jet 1200 air filter along with a Jet 1200 dust collector (installed on the other side of the wall)with a dust collection hood mounted on the lathe. I use a dust-be-gone mask (which can be washed) when sanding and have very little issues.

As others have advised, consulting your doctor would be a good idea. Don't be suprised if you hear the "if it hurts when you do 'dis, don't do 'dat" speech.


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## Pipes (Jun 9, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Ron in Drums PA_
> <br />Get a good dust collector and one of these



I gotta say I think I would quit turning IF I had to wear one a those !! bad enough with a normal reperaitor now and then ! I have a dust collector and good air movement and thank god  so far in 10 yrs NO problems !! [:I]






http://affordablepipes.com/


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## Rifleman1776 (Jun 10, 2006)

Yesterday I received some items ordered from Woodcraft that will improved the health aspect of working in my shop. I got some 4" hose and an adapter for my Shop Vac. This was immediately attached to my bandsaw. I cut some osage orange the other day and now everything in my shop has a layer of yellow dust. The entire shop. Of course, I wore my Dust Bee Gone mask. But just moving around in the shop raises dust and that can't be healthy. My shop still isn't anywhere near a good dust control environment but the bandsaw was the biggest villan and now, hopefully, that is controlled.


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## woodwish (Jun 10, 2006)

> _Originally posted by woodbutcher_
> <br />If you don't have an excellent air filtration system...... you are one.
> Jim



Best reply I've seen on this subject, almost sounds like something for a bumper sticker it is so simple!


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## jwoodwright (Jun 10, 2006)

I agree with Daniel, the stuff to watch out for is Finer than Human Hair.  Talc is a good way to decribe it.  Like Baby Powder in the air.  Corian is very prone to this type of dust.  Wet Sanding is Mandatory.  Look at the slurry that is produced, like a fine polish.  I agree with Anthony, a Cyclone is great, just ensure the outlet filters are capable.  This is why they're using cartridge filters, originally used on trucks.  Huge pleated filters.  I too use a shop vac for the fine dust with Drywall Dust Bags installed.  Plus the Delta Dust Collector and the ceiling mouted Jet Dust Filter System, and dust masks...


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## Daniel (Jun 11, 2006)

Franks post reminded me of anouther problem with dust collection. If the filter does not capture the dust, the vacume will actually make conditions in your shop far worse than it would have been. think of a small fire hydrant of sawdust in your shop.
Also be suspicious of manufacturer claims as for as filtration ratings. usually these ratings reflect what the filter will do once it is "caked" or in other words clogged up. as the filter gets clogged it will remove smaller and smaller particals from the air, but you have lost air flow so the dust is not being sucked up in the first place.
you need a filter that will capture the tiny particles while still letting the 900 cf or so of air to pass through.


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## JimQ (Jun 11, 2006)

Yep, the Dust Collector will catch most of the dust, and the ceiling mounted air filter will catch some more, but do you want to breath the dust that is on the way to the air filter?  Can you say that with them running you have NO dust collect on the surfaces in your shop?  You can't see the dust that will cause problems in your lungs.  

Even if you don't have an allergic reaction to the wood, your lungs will suffer from any foreign body.

I had some one tell me that plastic was inert and he wouldn't have an allergic reaction so he didn't even need a dust mask.  Union Carbide Plastics Corp found that plastic dust regularly caused lesions, cysts, and benign cancerous growths in lungs, and occassionally malignant growths.  They required high filtration respirators 40 years ago.

JimQ


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## William Young (Jun 11, 2006)

Interesting topic;
I have not been here for a while because I have been into other areas of turning than pens and of course scrolling and general WW and spending time  administrating my own Woodworking Friends website..
 But I find myself spending less time in my shop all the time  (over a month now) due to dust which  I figured I have overkill of dust collection with a 2HP DC and a large overhead air filter and a high quality dust mask which I generally wear especially when sanding.
Yes , I agree that one of the elaborate air powered head sets are probably the next step up but I am not sure if I want to invest that much money (especially in Canadian funds) for yet another method of dust prevention.
If I was not so ancient , I would probably go for it but now with ARMD as well as breathing problems I am seriously trying to decide if I should sell out everything in my shop and forget about woodworking which I dearly love or continue and die of the consequences. I can't think of any other dust free hobby that I would turn to that I enjoy as much as I have enjoyed with wood working over the years.
Moral of the story . . . . . . .  If you don't start protecting yourself from dust at an early age, you are definitely going to pay for it later.
W.Y.


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## TexasJohn (Jun 18, 2006)

FWIW - I purchased a cheapo HF air filter system for $99.  It is on rollers and has a 4" intake.  I purchased a better bag (3 micron) and plastic bottoms (bags) from Woodworkers.com.  I do not have a duct system because it will not fit my situation in a 2-car garage, so I have to connect and disconnect the hose each time I move to a different maching (a pain in the lower rear). I also have a metal trash can attached in line to act as a seperator ( the heavy big chunks go into the metal can and the dust goes into the bag). I also have a respirator that I use - when I think about it or the spirit moves me (I hate to have something hanging on my face - unless it's Haloween and I am at a party or it's a good looking lady   ) With regard to all this, I have a few questions.  1) Does anyone use or have tried the box fan filter thing?  Is it worth it?  2) What would happen if I fixed a box to hold a filter and connected my HF air filter bag machine to it - would it effectively remove dust from my shop?  I guess I should not admit this but every once in awhile, I open the doors to my garage and plug in my leaf blower and have at it.  I wear a mask when I do this.  I consider it a way to mulch the lawn .  Texas John


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## Daniel (Jun 18, 2006)

As far as the box filter. they are a good thing to have cause some dust always gets in the air. Mainly remember it is not a good way to protect your lungs. it will help keep the shop cleaner for when you are in it later. having it run for a while even after you leave the shop would be a good way to use it. maybe a timer that will shut it off in an hour or two.
as for the conversion Idea. I don't know if it would work or not. I do know what a box filter is supposed to be doing. you want it to create an air current all through your shop so it keeps the dust in the air where it will eventually get filtered out. mounting it to the ceiling has something to do with getting these currents going.
In the event you have a shop that is not climate controled. there is not always a reason you could not simply have your dust collection syatem simply blow the dust outside. some areas have laws against that though. the filter is needed only if the air is being returned to your shop. my shop will be both heated and air conditioned so I don't want to loose the air.
anyway, a dust collector that works so well you never have to clean the shop at all does not exist as far as I know. the leaf blower sounds about like what I do. I use the air nozzle from my air compressor. it's a pretty messy process but I leave the shop when I am done so I am not around to breath the dust it makes. I don't know of any other way to get all the fine dust that settles in every nook and cranny of my equipment. I do know that if I leave it there I will be breathing it every time I work in my shop.
I work for the university of nevada. there carpenter shop is right next door to my supply warehouse. they have a sdust collection system that meets OSHA requirments etc. etc. etc.
it has up to 14" ductwork that is made smaller and smaller at each piece of equipment. it is vented directly to the outdoors. and actually dumps the large pieces and heavy dust into a dumpster(no filters). even this shop has to be swept daily and equipment cleaned after every use. once a year we have a christmas party in this shop for the building maintenance people. we still have to get up in the duct work and lights etc. and clean up a bit of the fine dust that the collector misses. this is a system that meets all the requirments that the law says is safe enough. I added that just as a bench mark of what to expect to achieve. anouther thing I have noticed in that shop. I have never once seen a carpenter have to brush sawdust off themsleves after working in it. there is dust on the floor, the heavy type, and in the nooks and crannies of the equipment. there is fine dust on top of the lights and dust work, but not much after even a full year, but the air at my nose level always looks and smells clean.


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## whatwoodido (Jun 19, 2006)

I have never heard that the red in Box elder was caused by a beetle before, has anyone else heard this?

Drew


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