# The long debate on pen kit manufactures



## makaiolani (Apr 13, 2008)

Hi guys,

As most of you know there has been a lot of debate as to who makes the best pen kits and why.  People have been asking me why I have more confidence in one manufacture over another.  So I thought it would be a great discussion especially since everyone has their own opinions.  Especially me.  So to be fair lets post everyones experiences so that members here can have a collective understanding of what is out there before they buy 10 kits of that "special" pen.  Please don't get heated about this.  Tell us your background so we can learn how you came up with your opinion.

First here is my background:  I'm a fulltime pen turner.  I have two retail locations and I've made well over 10,000 pens over these past 5 years.  I've been a good customer of Arizona Silouhette, PSI, Craft Supplies, and Berea.  I've used a huge assortment different pen kits from every manufacture to find out which pens sell the best and who makes the best kits.  Please keep in mind I only use Ti gold, Black ti, Rhodium, and some chrome.

Each individual pen kit has it's good and bad features.  A perfect example is the Cigar pen which all three major manufactures make. 
(Dayacom) awesome plating for the Black ti and ti gold.  Only drawback is the transmission is sometimes loose from the top of the pen.  Fix: squeeze the top coupler so that it fits snuggly on the transmission when pressed together.
(Berea) good fit with regards to the transmission and top portion.  I've had many missing parts and plating comes off very fast on the ti gold.  Many times the parts do not have a tight enough fit in the brass tube.  Easy to pull apart.
(PSI) same issues as Berea.

This is what I've seen thus far:
1. Plating with dayacom has always been consistent. No missed spots or thin plating.  I've had very bad plating with berea with several different kits.
2. The parts are almost always smooth with no rough edges especially on the clip which will catch your clothing.
3. The plating on the Ti gold and Black ti parts out last berea and PSI. This is through my own use with my own hands.  There seems to be more discoloration with berea's ti gold.  PSI seems to be okay. 
4. I rarely find parts missing in the kits compared to the other manufactures.

*Yes there have been faulty kits that I have received from Dayacom, but no where near in the amount that I've had with Berea and PSI.

Please post your experiences.


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## redfishsc (Apr 13, 2008)

I haven't had any missing parts from Berea or PSI, but I have had a couple "Dayacom" (ie, CSA) kits show up missing things. 

I have also had a _*horridly awful*_ with Rhodium and Tigold from CSA, though they claim to have fixed the problem. I had to return around $200 worth of kits and materials due to the problem, but to their honor, they accepted them back without a complaint. I have had the two platings pit and corrode very, very ugly. Oddly, never once do I have this issue with their chrome (Zen, Artist Sketch Pencil) or their black Ti. 

Again, they claim to have solved this problem. We'll see. I like CSA, so I hope the problem is done and gone.




That said, every company makes a few pen kits that aren't worth the plastic baggie they come in.


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## wdcav1952 (Apr 13, 2008)

My experience is that this is an advertisement.


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## Rudy Vey (Apr 13, 2008)

I am not agreeing with your view of the Berea kits, and I had my share of bad dayacom kits that I bought from CSUSA.
Never had I a part missing in kits from Berea, and I know from own experience that their Titanium Gold plating is excellent; I am using TiGold pens for well over 6 years without any problem. I have not made 10000+ pens, but I think I have made over 2000. Their Titanium Gold looks more like gold than the CSUSA stuff, that looks brassy to me. I was the first one who had problems with the bad threads of CSUSA Gents Jr and reported it back to them. 
I use kits from both companies and the kits I use mostly are Sierra, Retro, Statesman Jr and Baron. I like Bereas variety in platings, and I like the variety in kits from CSUSA. So, both are equal players.
I have no experience with PSI.


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## panini (Apr 13, 2008)

Wow,...average 6 pens a day 7 bdays a week, 365 a year..


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## PenWorks (Apr 13, 2008)

My biggest knock on the Dayacom kits, generally the Jr size series and the Strech as well, is that the cap still does not stay closed. It works it way loose while carrying it. This is still not acceptable for any kind of pen. The "O" ring washer helps solve this problem, but an unsightly solve.


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## drayman (Apr 13, 2008)

well up to now i probably have made about 200 pens, but 95% have been from csusa. i now only use rhodium, b/titanium,g/titanium and some chrome and found all the kits to be of good quality. i have just got my first sierra and statesman from berea and the quality looks fine to me. i usualy do gents, jr gents, jr retros and the euro


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## pipeyeti (Apr 13, 2008)

> _Originally posted by wdcav1952_
> 
> My experience is that this is an advertisement.


I like your style


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## makaiolani (Apr 13, 2008)

> _Originally posted by wdcav1952_
> 
> My experience is that this is an advertisement.


Just trying to get everyone's opinions.  That's all man.


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## DCBluesman (Apr 13, 2008)

I found pen components through Arizona Silhouette first.  Back then Bill carried both Berea and CS USA.  I found and continue to find that these components hold up pretty darned well.  I know which kits are from Dayacomm as they com in bags that indicate so.  I have not noticed a significant number of kits with missing, bad or damaged parts from either supplier.  In terms of the quality of the plating, both have had a problem or two along the way.  The problem with CS USA's rhodium finish pitting is well documented in other threads.  I did not experience this problem, so I don't know if it is fixed.  Berea also had a problem with a shipment of black titanium Sierra's about a year and a half ago.  I do know that this problem has been fixed.  I've not made a significant number of pens from Penn State kits, so I cannot voice a reasonable opinion.  

For the record, none of this is data.  These opinions stated above are merely apocryphal.  Three years ago I did an actual test of several platings.  I did not compare manufacturer/distributors at the time as I simply wanted to know the real difference between the platings.  The results are in the archives.

For anyone to be so bold as to claim superiority of one product line over another, perhaps there should be some controlled testing done.  Plating can be tested by controlled buffing.  Transmissions can be tested by actuating and closing.  Refills can be tested by how many km the refill will write.  If no one is going to go through the trouble of testing the products, then all we have is opinion.


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## makaiolani (Apr 14, 2008)

> _Originally posted by DCBluesman_
> 
> I found pen components through Arizona Silhouette first.  Back then Bill carried both Berea and CS USA.  I found and continue to find that these components hold up pretty darned well.  I know which kits are from Dayacomm as they com in bags that indicate so.  I have not noticed a significant number of kits with missing, bad or damaged parts from either supplier.  In terms of the quality of the plating, both have had a problem or two along the way.  The problem with CS USA's rhodium finish pitting is well documented in other threads.  I did not experience this problem, so I don't know if it is fixed.  Berea also had a problem with a shipment of black titanium Sierra's about a year and a half ago.  I do know that this problem has been fixed.  I've not made a significant number of pens from Penn State kits, so I cannot voice a reasonable opinion.
> 
> ...



Thanks for your input.  Do you have a link to the archive file on this?


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## wdcav1952 (Apr 14, 2008)

> _Originally posted by makaiolani_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Point taken.  Now, if we can just get someone from Woodturningz, a PSI reseller, and either Bill or Ernie, Berea resellers, to chime in along with the Dayacom reseller to tell why they find their product line to be superior, it will be an interesting discussion.

I think it is fairly obvious to most that a reseller of a product line is perhaps not</u> an unbiased observer of comparative quality.  It perhaps would have seemed more above board if you had stated clearly in your original post that you are a Dayacom reseller.


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## CrazyBear (Apr 14, 2008)

To be fair cav.. I noticed on one of Aaron's selling threads that a poster was trying to turn the thread into a discussion on why Dayacom kits were better than others.

Aaron is simply trying to move the discussion to a better forum.( ie away from his business threads) The same thing I would imagine that any reseller would do...

As for identifying that he is a reseller of Dayacom..those who lurk around this forum on a regular basis should know Aaron's position as he is quite open about his supplier on his selling threads. Perhaps Aaron forgot that not everyone looks in the classifieds section


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## Gary Max (Apr 14, 2008)

I have never been able to figure out how you can compare a reseller to CSUSA----hummm I wonder how much of the total woodturning  $$$$ they get.
 Look at how much money CSUSA saves the members here by offering group buys---anybody else giving us these deals????????
You can watch the super new guys come and go------I like buying from someone who is going to be in business next month.


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## gwilki (Apr 14, 2008)

Looking at the pen counts of most of the posters to this thread, I'm a newbie by comparison. I've used almost exclusively Berea to date. I've never had missing pieces, but I've pretty much given up on their gold platings - even Ti. I've had to do over 4 Perfect Fit ballpoints when the plating wore off after only a month or so of use by the owners. These were not expensive pens, but when you are trying to make a market, you cannot be putting pens out there that cannot stand ordinary use.
Maybe the kits that came back were mis-labelled. I don't know, because I cannot look at the plating and know if it is gold, upgrade gold, or Ti gold.


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## DCBluesman (Apr 14, 2008)

http://www.penturners.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=2141


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## 1JaredSchmidt (Apr 14, 2008)

I have had a bad experience with woodturningz and PSI's black enamel slimlines. I had quite a few parts that had the black plating chipped off. Now I'm going with Craft Supplies.


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## Mudder (Apr 14, 2008)

> _Originally posted by CrazyBear_
> 
> As for identifying that he is a reseller of Dayacom..those who lurk around this forum on a regular basis should know Aaron's position as he is quite open about his supplier on his selling threads. Perhaps Aaron forgot that not everyone looks in the classifieds section



I do more that lurk here and I didn't make the connection so I have to agree with Cav. (did I just say that out loud?)


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## makaiolani (Apr 14, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Mudder_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Look guys, I'm not denying I'm a reseller.  I'm pretty sure that most everyone here knows this.  I simply wanted to post this debate on this forum and move it from my classified thread so that people can make a better decision on what kits to buy.  If people read a serious discussion on this here then I don't have to keep repeating myself in the classifieds on every new thread.  

As I've told people before, my main business is to make pens.  I sell the kits because I have to buy them in such large quantities.  I buy them directly from dayacom because I can get the kits that no one else sells.  What is the harm in me posting this debate?  Yes I'm bias, I stated that this was my opinion, but that's what this whole thread is about.  Isn't it?  To post your opinions.  I was not trying to advertise, this is why I didn't mention I'm a reseller in my first post.  Because this is not a Classifieds section.  Please just stick with the topic so that we can hear everyone's experiences with each manufacture.

Lou, I liked your archived thread.  I wish I had read it a long time ago.

Thanks
Aaron


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## pipeyeti (Apr 14, 2008)

> _Originally posted by DCBluesman_
> 
> http://www.penturners.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=2141



Read that thread, very cool info! And thank you for doing that Lou.


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## gwilki (Apr 14, 2008)

Thanks for the link, Lou. It would seem to suggest the the Ti Gold kits that are wearing may not have really contained Ti Gold parts. My problem, then, remains. I can't look at them and know for sure if I'm getting what I am paying for.


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## telefocus (Apr 18, 2008)

All of your insights are helpful.  Your help this week has allowed me align with the right manufactor.  I was so impressed I'm testing my first order from your company.  Thanks for taking the time to help I new forum member like me...


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## nava1uni (Apr 19, 2008)

I am fairly new to pen turning, but have bought kits form CSUSA, Woodcraft and Penn State and found them to be somewhat similar.  The kits from Rockler are very nice and have nice fitting parts.  I recently bought some Black Matt slim line kits from The Village Work Shop online and they are very nice and have been holding up nicely to a lot of abuse by me in my job and riding around town in my pocket. I am learning about the different finishes and like gwilki I can't tell the difference.  Sometimes I have to search for what all of the abbreviations mean.  It seems like it will just take time to get it all.


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## TellicoTurning (Apr 19, 2008)

I can't say I've had any bad experiences with any supplier..   I like CSUSA for some of their kits, slimlines and Europeans I get from Woodturningz because of the price... but for a while when he was doing the other company (other than Dayacom - don't remember name) I got some kits that were not up to par.  To date I've only bought from AZ Silhouette once but like what I got.... Got a supply from Wood Pen Pro out of Hawaii.. good kits and nice finish.. no record on how they will hold up yet.  I started with PSI and still buy from them on occasion.  No real experience Berea, unless the Baron is a Berea kit.
I don't buy from Woodcraft, I think they are a re-seller of other kits and tend to be a little on the pricey side... shop them for tools and blanks pretty regular since they also host my turning group.  I don't buy pen kits, but get some of my peppermills from Packard Woodworks.. they are great to work with.  And I buy tools from Hartville, but not pen kits.  I've only bought from Bear Tooth once, but no complaints there either.

Bottom line is I guess, it depends on what kit I'm looking for as to who I buy from.


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## GBusardo (Apr 20, 2008)

> _Originally posted by wdcav1952_
> 
> 
> Point taken.  Now, if we can just get someone from Woodturningz, a PSI reseller, and either Bill or Ernie, Berea resellers, to chime in along with the Dayacom reseller to tell why they find their product line to be superior, it will be an interesting discussion.



Man, would I love to see this!!!!


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## makaiolani (Apr 22, 2008)

> _Originally posted by ozmandus_
> 
> I can't say I've had any bad experiences with any supplier..   I like CSUSA for some of their kits, slimlines and Europeans I get from Woodturningz because of the price... but for a while when he was doing the other company (other than Dayacom - don't remember name) I got some kits that were not up to par.  To date I've only bought from AZ Silhouette once but like what I got.... Got a supply from Wood Pen Pro out of Hawaii.. good kits and nice finish.. no record on how they will hold up yet.  I started with PSI and still buy from them on occasion.  No real experience Berea, unless the Baron is a Berea kit.
> I don't buy from Woodcraft, I think they are a re-seller of other kits and tend to be a little on the pricey side... shop them for tools and blanks pretty regular since they also host my turning group.  I don't buy pen kits, but get some of my peppermills from Packard Woodworks.. they are great to work with.  And I buy tools from Hartville, but not pen kits.  I've only bought from Bear Tooth once, but no complaints there either.
> ...



Woodcraft gets their kits from berea.  I have several friends that work at woodcraft and they tell me that they won't buy their own kits from the store.  It is a lot more expensive here in Hawaii even for the lower line of kits.


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