# CA finish problems.....need answers from the experts



## wizical (Sep 2, 2008)

ok,

so tonight I was making a streamline pen and my CA finish went wacky.  there are ridges within the pen blank and make it look weird

here are my steps

1) Sand all the way to 12,000 MM

2) wipe down blank with Rag

3) Apply Thin CA with cloth
    3a) two quick swipes across the blank

4) apply BLO 

5) apply 2-3 coats of Med CA glue

6) apply BLO

7) MM 4,000-12,000

8) Then Buff

I have never had a problem with this until tonight.  If anyone had any problems like this before, please advise.  Thanks again


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## stevers (Sep 3, 2008)

You didn't say if it was wood or PR or what. Was it something you've used before? What was diff about this job. 
Some woods react differently to CA. Some like to be blotchy and uneven. 
More info so the experts can help you.


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## wizical (Sep 3, 2008)

It was a kingwood pen blank.  it came out ok, wasnt impressed.  I havent changed any of my techniques.  Is it possible that the Bottle went bad????


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## stevers (Sep 3, 2008)

Were the ridges radial, (around the blank)? Did they look like marks from the application process? How humid is it in the shop, has it rained a lot lately?
Check your BLO also. If it goes bad (spoils) it will mess with you too. The CA could go bad, been known to happen. Was the rag damp "at all?" Remember, water is an accelerator for CA. A very fast accelerator. Especially for thin CA.


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## wizical (Sep 3, 2008)

thanks stevers, 

the ridges go all the way around the blank.  It wasnt humid at all tonight, it was pleasant actually.  how do i know if the BLO has gone bad?  I can definitely change the CA Glue.  the rag was brand new, no dampness in it at all.  Doesnt make sense at all.  thank again


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## stevers (Sep 3, 2008)

If the BLO went bad, It'll actually smell sort of rotten. I had some start to turn and could tell something wasn't quite right, felt odd, then I smelled it it was starting to go rancid. It's not real strong or overpowering, just stinks a little. Who'd have thought BLO would turn. 
Just step back and review your process and start with all new supplies. Then give it another go. Bout all I can tell ya. 
Maybe one of the others will chime in and give you some suggestions.


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## wizical (Sep 3, 2008)

thanks.  i definitely will try that next time.  it is possible it just went bad


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## stevers (Sep 3, 2008)

Good luck, off to bed now. Night night.


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## DCBluesman (Sep 3, 2008)

*If the ridges are in the same direction as you applied the medium CA, the CA set up too fast.*  CA doesn't really go "bad".  It thickens and can harden, but it doesn't go "bad".  Neither does BLO.  It also thickens and will eventually gel, then harden.  Both CA and BLO will thicken more quickly if left open for a significant period of time or if left in a humid environment.  That's just one good reason to use thick CA as a finish.  Thick gives you a few more seconds to self-level a bit.

The humidity in LA averaged about 60% yesterday so it is unnlikely that the humidity affected your finishing process.

Another possible culprit?  A contaminated rag.  This deserves its own post, though.


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## bradh (Sep 3, 2008)

DCBluesman said:


> * CA doesn't really go "bad".  It thickens and can harden, but it doesn't go "bad". *


*

I have to disagree. I had a time when my CA finish just stopped working, I could not get a smooth gloss. I tried all sorts of changes, just could not get it to work. Someone suggested the CA had gone off. I changes to a fresh bottle and my finish was back. 
   The old CA had been open and in use for about a year when this happened.*


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## marcruby (Sep 3, 2008)

When I bought some glue supplies last year the dealer told me to keep CA glue refrigerated or it would eventually lose adhesion.  Can't say that it ever happened to me, but chilled CA takes longer to set, and that's a good thing.

Marc



bradh said:


> I have to disagree. I had a time when my CA finish just stopped working, I could not get a smooth gloss. I tried all sorts of changes, just could not get it to work. Someone suggested the CA had gone off. I changes to a fresh bottle and my finish was back.
> The old CA had been open and in use for about a year when this happened.


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## jthompson1995 (Sep 3, 2008)

I figure I'll add my $.02.  Every time I have isues with my CA finish (I don't use BLO) I have traced it back to bad CA.  I've learned to start there now.  I keep my 8 oz bottles stored in back of the fridge and dipense them as needed into 1 oz bottles (6 for about $2 at the craft store) to keep in the shop.  If the CA goes bad, I just toss the bottle and fill a new one with fresh CA from the fridge.  I've usually used most of the 1 oz bottle before it goes bad (usually lasts 3-6 mos).

The Kingwood may be giving you some additional difficulty.  It is a rosewood and can be oily, causing problems with a CA finish.  Opinions vary on this, but I wipe mine with DNA before applying the finish and it works well.  Be sure to give the blank a couple minutes for the DNA to evaporate before applying the finish, though.


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## leehljp (Sep 3, 2008)

Strange thing happening here with quotes on CA going "bad". A couple of you mentioned that you keep the CA in the refrigerator when not in use.

Lets see, - what happens when you take a cold can, bottle or glass out of the "fridge"? Ever see water condensation? The coaster industry lives on this. We rarely notice the condensing on the inside, but it does happen. 

What happens to CA and water vapor? Cloudy finishes often result. 

On "Bad" CA, My experience is like Lou's - it thickens and I have used the "thickened" old CA as a medium or thick, and it worked fine for me until the rest in the bottle hardened too hard.

IMO, the cloudiness that results is not because of age or thickening, but probably by moisture in the wood or CA from the condensation process or just the humidity in the room.

On suggesting "oily woods" - I used ebonies considerably and other oily woods and NEVER had a cloudy finish from the CA itself, with new or old CA. It is more probably the technique that causes it. IF the wood is heated too warm/hot from rubbing or sanding (although some will argue it is not 'that' hot) raising the temp from just working with it causes moisture (water/resin/oil) to be released into the finish. That process is NOT the fault of CA.


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## MobilMan (Sep 3, 2008)

I think I'd get rid of the rag & use a soft paper towel folded over.  The thread in the rag can cause it if a little too much pressure is used.


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## rcflyer23 (Sep 12, 2008)

I had the same thing happen to me tonight it was the first time I had really used the CA as a finish.  I think my problem however is I was probably pressing to hard.  It got really hot on my fingers, more so than it probably should.  I will use less pressure next time.  The other I guess it could have been is humidity since it rained most of the day here.


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## igran7 (Sep 12, 2008)

I guess I've been lucky.  I've never had a problem with CA going bad.  I don't take any precautions, I leave the CA in the garage for the entire life of the bottle, sometimes un-capped for a week or so.  I use several different brands (whatever is on sale at the time) I stay away from CA or superglue sold at the big box stores though.  Usually I buy from Rockler, Woodcraft, CSUSA or my new favorite is 2P-10 because it is half the price.  
My finishes are CA/BLO exclusively, so I go through a bunch of the stuff.


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## marcruby (Sep 12, 2008)

I don't entirely agree with you Hank.  I usually refrigerate CA and haven't had much problem.  Condensation is factor of the temperature and humidity of the ambient air and unless you are taking the applicator off the bottle there should be very little moisture in contact with the CA.  But, it is a possibility.  Usually I lose the bottle under a heap of sawdust somewhere before it gets old enought to have a problem.

I just  saw an article that suggested storing opened bottles of CA in a mason jar with some of those wee dessicant packets. that actually seems like a good idea.  And I'm less likely to lose a mason jar in the sawdust.

Marc





leehljp said:


> Strange thing happening here with quotes on CA going "bad". A couple of you mentioned that you keep the CA in the refrigerator when not in use.


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## rjwolfe3 (Sep 12, 2008)

Marc

Before I knew better I bought one of those kits from CSUSA.  It was a plastic container with lid and the dessicant.  So far it seems to work.  Of course I don't own as much CA as other people do.


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## TellicoTurning (Sep 15, 2008)

wizical said:


> ok,
> 
> so tonight I was making a streamline pen and my CA finish went wacky.  there are ridges within the pen blank and make it look weird
> here are my steps
> ...




I'm no expert, but these are the steps that work for me..
1. Sand through 400
2. Wipe down with either mineral spirits or acetone... let flash off.
3. Wipe down with BLO using Kimberly Clark kleen wipes.. little 4 x 6 sheets of lintless paper.
4. One coat of thin CA with little foam pad... the foam that comes wrapped around electronics, etc... cut into 1 x 2 inch strips... doesn't absorb the CA and if careful, doesn't get on the fingers.
5. Five to eight coats of Medium CA .. spay of accelorator after every 2 or 3 coats..
6. Spray of accelorator after final coat.
7. Wet sand with 400 through 12000 mm.  The 400 is usualy a cloth backed sandpaper.. it takes out any ridges and smooths the finish... then the MM polishes.
8. Hut plastic polish to bring up the shine.

I don't usually buff my pens.. by the time I get to Nr. 8, I have a very good shine.  I've tried a number of other methods and this one works for me.

Others have mentioned that they keep CA in Fridge... I've never used the Fridge... I leave mine in the shop year round... haven't lost any yet to setting up or "going bad" .  My shop isn't air conditioned nor heated... summer it's close to 100 and winter it's whatever the temp is..   Even in Houston where the humidity is near 100% most of the time, never had a problem with CA in the shop.


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## Rudy Vey (Sep 15, 2008)

Do these ridges appear during the MM sanding? If so, it is build-up of the removed junk collected in the MM. When it gets a bit warm, read too hot, it will built up on the blank -  happens often from 3200 MM onwards.
When this happens to me,  normally when my MM needs a round in the washing machine, I use lengthwise sanding with the lathe off to remove the ridges, clean my MM on my pants and sand again with MM - start using the grit before you got the ridges. This happens with both CA finishes and acrylics and other plastics.


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