# Advanced Pen Making -  Not Sure ??



## LL Woodworks (Jun 3, 2012)

Well I was hesitant to put this in "Advanced Pen Making" because ... well you advanced pen makers will see why.  Thanks to every one who answered so many of my questions as I researched the "component-less" aspect of pen making. 

This is my 1st complete component-less after four practice grip sections, three practice caps and bodies and several feet of PR used in tap / die threading practice.    I really had a hard time fitting the section to the body and the finial to the cap so they would appear seamless; failed to accomplish that!  Improved skills needed in back cutting and parting in such small areas to remove shoulders, I think?  Perhaps smaller or sharper parting tools - suggestions?

Details:
- 145 mm long (to long for my likes)
- 127 mm long body (nib's end to body end)
- 70 mm long cap
- M9 x 0.75 section & finial threads
- M12 x 1.0 cap & body threads
- #5 Bock nib & feed
- Cap does post very securely

I respectfully request constructive feed back that will help improve my next "component-less".  I think the next one will be with 1/2 - 28 threads for cap and body while maintaining the M9 x 0.75 section & finial threads.   Thanks again to all who helped and thanks in advance for the constuctive feed back.

- Lynn -


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## mredburn (Jun 3, 2012)

A wonderful start. There is no need to worry about whether or not it belongs in the advanced pen forum. We all have our practice pieces from trying new things and stretching our limits. Its part of the journey.   Nice design and execution great choice of blank.


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## soligen (Jun 3, 2012)

You've got a great start!

SO, here are my suggestions.

Cap threads: I'd recommend going a bit finer.  In 12mm I'd recommend .75 pitch.  If you go to 1/2, I'd go with 32 tpi. 

Section.  I'd recommend shortening the section a bit, and correspondingly the cap if you want a shorter pen.  I'd also leave fewer threads on the section.  I usually shoot for 5, and it appears you have 7.  Especially in a single start thread, that's a lot of turns.

It may be the photo, but the finial looks to be slightly askew or under size.  You can screw the finial into the cap then turn them together like a closed end cap.  The better your threading and the closer the shoulders are to square, the more accurately is will re-assemble with the clip.  When you do this, after turning/polishing, the transition should be perfect.  It can be slightly less than perfect once the clip is installed, but only to the fingers, and not to the eye.


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## Texatdurango (Jun 3, 2012)

Nothing not to like, it is a heck of a lot nicer than my first pens were! It's a nice looking pen with clean lines. 

Have you tried using the #6 Bock feed yet?  I prefer that size because it actually gives you more room to sculpt your section and allows for a more curved grip rather than the semi straight shape the #5 holds you to.

When I see a post where the dimensions are in metric my eyes sorta gloss over and I actually hate it because now I'm sitting here with no scale in site wondering how long 145 millimeters is!  On your next pen could you help us metric impaired out by putting dimensions in inch and metric.

I can't really tell from the photo but is the pen designed to use a standard ink converter?  

As far as getting the patterns to match up between mating parts, that's a battle I quit fighting long ago and don't even worry about it anymore.  I used to make my parts extra long so when I threaded them I could have room to trim off tiny amounts to make the parts match up better but soon realized that while you could get really close, you were still not 100% matched so I thought... why spend so much time on getting something 90% matched when even that will likely be noticed IF the customer was looking for a mismatch.

Now and then I'll make a section or finial match the body if I think the look warrants it but usually most of my designs use black finials and sections and I like the look and obviously my customers do too so I'm happy with the look.   The upper and lower finial joints make nice places to put some metal accent rings or bands.


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## apple320 (Jun 3, 2012)

LL Woodworks said:


> Well I was hesitant to put this in "Advanced Pen Making" because ... well you advanced pen makers will see why.  Thanks to every one who answered so many of my questions as I researched the "component-less" aspect of pen making.
> 
> This is my 1st complete component-less after four practice grip sections, three practice caps and bodies and several feet of PR used in tap / die threading practice.    I really had a hard time fitting the section to the body and the finial to the cap so they would appear seamless; failed to accomplish that!  Improved skills needed in back cutting and parting in such small areas to remove shoulders, I think?  Perhaps smaller or sharper parting tools - suggestions?
> 
> ...


If you go with a 1/2 - 20 on the cap you can get less turns to remove the cap and it will not unscrew in your pocket.  I try to do 2 turns max but that is just me.

Chris


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## Timebandit (Jun 3, 2012)

LL Woodworks said:


> Well I was hesitant to put this in "Advanced Pen Making" because ... well you advanced pen makers will see why.  Thanks to every one who answered so many of my questions as I researched the "component-less" aspect of pen making.
> 
> This is my 1st complete component-less after four practice grip sections, three practice caps and bodies and several feet of PR used in tap / die threading practice.    I really had a hard time fitting the section to the body and the finial to the cap so they would appear seamless; failed to accomplish that!  Improved skills needed in back cutting and parting in such small areas to remove shoulders, I think?  Perhaps smaller or sharper parting tools - suggestions?
> 
> ...



Great looking pen Lynn! Very nice first start!!:wink:

I do see where the finial is off, overhang on the left and underhang on the right, and i would do as Dennis said and screw the finial into the cap and turn them as one piece. This is the best way to keep the two pieces consistent.

With the section, are they just out of round or does the size not match? They cant be perfect or else the cap wont screw on. The section has to be at least the depth of the barrel threads less in diameter than the barrel in order for them to engage the cap threads, so they will never be perfect.

I dont use any parting tools, well i do now on the metal lathe, but only to actually part parts off, but if i want to cut a nice shoulder on the wood lathe, i use a square carbide tool to get a nice square shoulder. I also dont cut any threads off of any shoulders, like on the barrel, instead i chamfer the inside lip of the cap to allow the threads to full engage in the cap. I do this with the carbide cutter. I like the method better,  as i think it looks better with the threads all the way to the barrel so they are nice and flush. I also do this on the section. I chamfer the inside edge of the barrel so that the section threads will thread all the way in.

Matching up parts just take little practice. I can do it quite quickly and effectively now. Just take your time on it and you will get it. I love the look all all the pieces matching up when you are done and put all the parts, clip feed /nib in, just looks nice and clean. Any particular part you are having trouble on?



Texatdurango said:


> Have you tried using the #6 Bock feed yet?  I prefer that size because it actually gives you more room to sculpt your section and allows for a more curved grip rather than the semi straight shape the #5 holds you to.
> 
> When I see a post where the dimensions are in metric my eyes sorta gloss over and I actually hate it because now I'm sitting here with no scale in site wondering how long 145 millimeters is!  On your next pen could you help us metric impaired out by putting dimensions in inch and metric.



George can you explain the #5/#6 bock feed thing. I can get more shape out of the #5 because it is so much skinnier than the #6, i can get much more curve in the middle section.

I also dont like the metric stuff everyone does. Most of us live in America, so i post my stuff in inches and the rest can convert it to metric right:biggrin: I know we use metric taps and dies, but i measure everything else on my pens in inches.


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## bluwolf (Jun 3, 2012)

Lynn,

The pen looks great, first pen or not. You know where you need to work on it, on the next one. Good looking material too.

George,

I had a calculator handy:biggrin:

- 145 mm long (to long for my likes)                5.71"
- 127 mm long body (nib's end to body end)       5"
- 70 mm long cap                                          2.75"

Mike


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## Curly (Jun 3, 2012)

I do not claim any expertise. Great first pen. 

Lynn I don't understand why you would want to use a 1/2 x 28tpi tap over the 12 x 1mm you have started with. The diameter difference is less than 1/32 of an inch and the pitch difference between the 28tpi and the 25.4 that the metric tap is equivalent to is .003" per thread (about the thickness of a sheet of paper or less). So very little to be gained for the cost of a new tap and die unless you already have them. I agree with what Dennis said about using the 12 x .75mm or 1/2 x 32tpi threads.


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## Rich L (Jun 3, 2012)

I think you did a great job and there's nothing I don't like about it. I even like the lengthened section but I might taper it down a bit. There's a lot of comment about the number of threads you have and the presumption that the caps requires that many turns but maybe not so - depends on when you bottom out. Indeed, you don't need that many threads but maybe your stylistic approach does. That's cool. 

I like it a lot!

Cheers,
Rich


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## Ruby pen turning (Jun 3, 2012)

I think it looks great. I don't know the ins and outs of kit less so the only thing I do see is the part over the clip is a hair off.


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## Robert111 (Jun 3, 2012)

Lynn, beautiful pen! Congratulations on a stunning first! Nothing about it not to like, as someone else said.


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## joefyffe (Jun 3, 2012)

Lynn: It doesn't matter how much stuff you threw away, because it didn't work or didn't meet your self set standards. What does matter is that you had the fortitude to stay with it until you had a pen. That deserves congratulations. Here they are. Congratulations!!! Now Practice, Practice, Practice. We are ALL still learning. Some of us, (myself included) just have MORE to learn.


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## LL Woodworks (Jun 3, 2012)

Wow you guys are great, thanks for the kind words and suggestions; let me see if I can respond to everyone.

Dennis - Learning the process is part of it I guess, I can see where turning the finial and the cap as one will help.

George - I agree a TEXAN using metric references;  what was I thinking?   I haven't tried the #6 yet but plan to on one of my next projects.

Justin - I know there is something wrong with the section (besides to long) I think it's diameter is just a little to large where it meets the barrel, thus it doesn't match up is size, as you observed, like it should.  I like your thought of not back cutting the threads and chamfer the cap and section instead. The tutorial I was using for this 1st one used the back cutting method.  That's what learning is about HUH; plus adding alternative methods to the tool box. I will have to acquire a square carbide cutter in order to do a better job squaring shoulders - this is by biggest challenge.  If my shoulders were truly square I think the finial and section would look better.

Chris, Peter Rich, Brian Robert, Joe and Mike; thanks for you comments and suggestions on sizes. # threads etc. - If I'm going to buy and taps and dies, I think it will be M12 x 0.75.  I already have 1/2-20 and 1/2-28, but not 1/2-32


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## ed4copies (Jun 3, 2012)

Just a quick note:  Rather than  telling the rest of the world to do it OUR way, the quick conversion is 25mm=one inch.  Now, my mind immediately translates that to four inches per hundred millimeters, so 145mm is very close to 6 inches.

And, if you get involved in weight, 1kg is approx equal to 2.2 pounds avoirdupois.  When shipping or answering shipping questions internationally, these conversions come into play often.

Just a quick FWIW!!


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## Haynie (Jun 3, 2012)

I so much prefer metric.  That aside I have no experience in this part of pen making but I think it looks clean and a good start to the process.


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