# Best CA or alternative finish



## Jim H (Aug 14, 2018)

Ok, I know this will be a can of worms :biggrin:
I have been away from pen turning and turning in general for quite awhile. 
Have been reading the finish forum and think I want to use one of the new flex CA’s as I have had some minor cracking in the past. Would also like low odor, but can use dc and respiratory protection. 
Trying to decide between the BSI Super Gold+, and the Mercury flex. Any recommendations? 
I’m also not stuck on C.A. if there is a better, quick to apply, long lasting finish that you want to recommend. 
I primarily will be turning hybrid blanks, but not exclusively. 

Thanks in advance for your recommendations and time sharing.


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## edstreet (Aug 14, 2018)

I know super gold+ is odorless and likely the better of the two.


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## ed4copies (Aug 14, 2018)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mXLiuV2kzw&t=1s


Take a look and judge for yourself!


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## wouldentu2? (Aug 14, 2018)

BSI Super Gold+ is a wonderful CA, have used it for years with  no problems. No reactions to it and the bushings separate from blanks with no chipping.


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## mg_dreyer (Aug 14, 2018)

Take a look at the link Ed posted. I have been using GluBoost for a few months now and it clearly is my "go to" finish. So easy to apply. Only four coats, micromesh, buff and you have a glass finish.

I demoed it at the AWW in Portland and at Turn On! Chicago. I really like the product. Easy to apply and with lathe off.


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## edstreet (Aug 14, 2018)

It’s still ECA based.


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## StanBrown (Aug 14, 2018)

ed4copies said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mXLiuV2kzw&t=1s
> 
> 
> Take a look and judge for yourself!



In the video, the demo is done with the lathe off but he mentions he also did it with the lathe on.  Was that at a slow speed, medium speed or fast speed?  And how did it turn out?


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## TonyL (Aug 14, 2018)

I have used EZ Bond, BSI, Mercury and a bunch of others. I am going to try the GB especially I can reduce the number of coats by 50%. For me, trying different products is part of the fun of the hobby. I also have some hi-end guitars and would think that luthiers/ guitar finishers wouldn't compromise on their finish (I may be kidding myself though).  Ed Brown....thanks for the video.


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## ed4copies (Aug 14, 2018)

StanBrown said:


> ed4copies said:
> 
> 
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mXLiuV2kzw&t=1s
> ...




I know it is hard to believe, but that video took me nearly 10 hours.  Why? EDITING to keep it interesting--and I think I failed, miserably.


Yes, I have done several pens to prepare for the videos and yes, I did them with the lathe running--(edit in: 1000 RPM)  I was VERY happy with the results.  There will be more videos coming soon.  I have another new project that needs my immediate attention to introduce another new product, so I am working on that tonight.  Hope to have it done in two days or less, then back to GluBoost.


The owner of the company (GluBoost) called to tell me I should say more about the accelerator--the Finish products are meant to be used with accelerator because they are intentionally slower drying. The accelerator is formulated to avoid white spots and to aid the finish in achieving a clear shine.  He points out that this will also avoid sanding dust getting under the finish.   He's the expert, so I will heed his advice.  So far every pen I have made has had GREAT results, with 5 or fewer coats.  As I have made more pens, I have settled on four coats.  



MY personal preference is to let the blank sit overnight, after the four coats, then sand with 600 grit the next day.  Then, I use my buffing system to get a great shine.


To each his own!!  So far everything has worked.  I did not have that experience before using GluBoost.


Again, I stress, try it yourself and make your own judgement!!


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## ed4copies (Aug 14, 2018)

TonyL said:


> I have used EZ Bond, BSI, Mercury and a bunch of others. I am going to try the GB especially I can reduce the number of coats by 50%. For me, trying different products is part of the fun of the hobby. I also have some hi-end guitars and would think that luthiers/ guitar finishers wouldn't compromise on their finish (I may be kidding myself though).  Ed Brown....thanks for the video.




I found this a compelling argument, when we started looking at GluBoost.  They repair very high end instruments.  Those instruments are played, creating substantial vibration, we call it music.  The finish does not crack.  Seems like pretty strong evidence that it will protect pens.


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## Jim H (Aug 14, 2018)

Thank you all for your suggestions, and for taking the time to help.


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## MDWine (Aug 15, 2018)

Watched Ed's video last night completely by chance!
Interesting product, and worth a try IMHO.  I'll get some myself and see it in action.
(if I can get a decent finish with it, anyone could!)


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## mg_dreyer (Aug 15, 2018)

I just posted a comment in the original review on the need for the accelerator.

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f52/review-gluboost-liquid-finish-wood-155473/


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## Skie_M (Aug 15, 2018)

I've been using it for years, haven't had any real problems with it ....  and I have also been told that surprisingly enough, their "brand" of superglue works surprisingly well as a pen finish .... but my choice is Harbor Freight superglue (not the gel).


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## robertkulp (Aug 17, 2018)

The GluBoost Fill N Finish and Mercury Flex CA Safety Data Sheets are identical. I don't mean that they have the same ingredients, I mean that the SDS's are the same - except for the company logo at the top. I've not had a chance to verify this with Mercury Adhesives yet, but my guess is that GluBoost is just a relabeled product of Mercury Flex.


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## longbeard (Aug 17, 2018)

robertkulp said:


> The GluBoost Fill N Finish and Mercury Flex CA Safety Data Sheets are identical. I don't mean that they have the same ingredients, I mean that the SDS's are the same - except for the company logo at the top. I've not had a chance to verify this with Mercury Adhesives yet, but my guess is that GluBoost is just a relabeled product of Mercury Flex.


 

Very interesting Robert. And Mercury is $5 cheaper 
Please keep us updated.
Thank you



Harry


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## edstreet (Aug 17, 2018)

I have always been a big advocate of knowing your material, knowing your tools, knowing your skill levels and work to learn more. Knowledge is a very powerful tool and ignorance is also a very powerful tool. 

In math it’s called Transitive Property of Equality. This states A=B, B=C therefore A=C. 

Same bottle, same SDS even same CAS numbers. 


That’s bit aside I still have to say it’s ECA based and I know there is better chemistry that can be used, odorless. 

The last part, accelerator, is a huge part of the puzzle. Having a “trade secret” listing is a bad thing on our case as we must account for storage, reactions, archival and daily usage. This goes back to knowing your tools.


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## robertkulp (Aug 17, 2018)

I just spoke with Eric Fether at Mercury Adhesives and he clarified that they do not make GluBoost and relabel it. He's not sure who the mfg is or if it's just a Chinese copy.


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## mg_dreyer (Aug 17, 2018)

Robert,

I spoke with the manufacturer of GluBoost and he assured me that the product is locally manufactured and has no affiliation with Mercury Adhesives.


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## edstreet (Aug 17, 2018)

So it’s using the same SDS as mercury and that makes it Plagiarism.  Also same bottle. That makes it a clone. Either way that’s bad business practices.


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## alphageek (Aug 17, 2018)

Interesting... A lot of name calling and allegations without any proof going on here.   I find youtube videos from 4 years ago with gluboost and guitar repairs.   Are we sure who might have copied whom?

I think bad business practices include bashing products just because of an interest or selling of an alternative.


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## alphageek (Aug 17, 2018)

Jim H said:


> Ok, I know this will be a can of worms :biggrin:
> 
> Thanks in advance for your recommendations and time sharing.



Well.. you did indeed do that!   Hope you get something out of the discussion and look beyond the assumptions and battles!


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## ed4copies (Aug 17, 2018)

The first youtube I can find on flex Mercury is 2-19-16, from Jim Hinze using a bottle that he got in the mail from Mercury (his assertion) as NEW stuff.  The bottle has no label, but handprinted identifier--like a new product in testing.  This is a couple years after GluBoost videos on Guitar repair.


Just in case a timeline really matters.  



If one company uses a bottle design, I would not expect every other company to avoid that same design, so make your own judgement on how important that might be.


I think Coke and Pepsi use the same shape bottle, don't they?


I have used GluBoost and can attest to the claims that are made and documented on my vids.  I have NOT used Mercury flex, but will try some soon so I can give an intelligent comparison--so far that seems lacking in the recent posts.


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## mark james (Aug 17, 2018)

edstreet said:


> So it’s using the same SDS as mercury and that makes it Plagiarism.  Also same bottle. That makes it a clone. Either way that’s bad business practices.



I've no opinion on either product, but I do have some background with patents and MSDS's.  If a product has a patent, then that is a slam dunk that competitors need to work around (which they can easily do with minor alterations....i.e.,  .035% of theirs, to .037% in ours = new product ), but if no patent, a similar or identical MSDS means nothing - plagarism?  Maybe, but who cares, they did not have a patent.  Choose the product you prefer, choose the company you prefer.  Bad business practices, quite possibly, but you may not be so certain which company was replicating who's product.  A lot of this is known chemistry from many years ago.

I'll stick to Titebond Transluscent and sticks of wood, as my CA finishes stink!

EDIT:  Just to be honest, I just checked.  I have some recent Mercury CA that Magicbob gave me, and some 2p-10 Fastcap that is about 4 years old.  Like I said, I use mostly wood glue.  My comments were more for the MSDS/patent issues.


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## TonyL (Aug 17, 2018)

For me, it would be nice if it was more important to share one's experience than to be "right" or try to persuade. 

I am big advocate of the freedom of speech, but also our discourse makes folks feel comfortable asking questions and sharing their own opinions. And, no, there is no rule that says we should cultivate an environment about making all feel comfortable, but there are no rules about:


Welcoming new members
Wishing Happy Birthday
Congratulating folks on their achievements
Praying for others (and asking for prayers)
Give away tools that you don't use
Helping folks out financially
Etc.

But we do it anyway. There are enough books, YouTubes, and WW shops to teach someone what we do. However, it's the fellowship, willingness to help and be helped that make this a special place.

Ok, now I am going to go to bed with my "Fluffy" my stuffed unicorn. It (no gender) helps me dream of lavendar fields and rainbows.


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## jeff (Aug 18, 2018)

edstreet said:


> So it’s using the same SDS as mercury and that makes it Plagiarism.  Also same bottle. That makes it a clone. Either way that’s bad business practices.



Please be mindful of our Acceptable Use Policy.

*"Broad, negative statements about individuals or businesses are not permitted."*

It's one thing to state that the two data sheets are the same. That may be a fact. Unless you know a lot more than you're letting on about these two companies and the sources of the datasheets, then I don't believe you can fairly draw the conclusion you did.


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## edstreet (Aug 18, 2018)

jeff said:


> edstreet said:
> 
> 
> > So it’s using the same SDS as mercury and that makes it Plagiarism.  Also same bottle. That makes it a clone. Either way that’s bad business practices.
> ...





Legally it’s not a negative statement. Nor is it about any one entity. It’s about legal definition of Plagiarism. As stated elsewhere we don’t know which side is guilty. 

https://definitions.uslegal.com/p/plagiarism/


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## Larryreitz (Aug 18, 2018)

TonyL said:


> For me, it would be nice if it was more important to share one's experience than to be "right" or try to persuade.
> 
> I am big advocate of the freedom of speech, but also our discourse makes folks feel comfortable asking questions and sharing their own opinions. And, no, there is no rule that says we should cultivate an environment about making all feel comfortable, but there are no rules about:
> 
> ...


I am in agreement with Tony,  so here is my impressions/  feelings/ and perspective on the GluBoost products.  I am in no way an expert, but, I have used other CA products including the one that has no odor (can't) remember the name), Stick Fast, and Harbor Freight CA.  My order from Exotics arrived yesterday and so far I have finished 4 pens with GluBoost following the instructions on Ed's video.  IMHO (and admittedly limited experience) it is the best finish I have ever applied to a pen.  Well worth the $42 it cost for the 2 glues and accelerator.  Also I also really like the caps as I have tossed a bottle or two with poor caps after they thickened beyond use.  Just my opinion.  Take it for what it is's worth.

Larry


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## JohnU (Aug 19, 2018)

I don’t see how it’s up to any of us to decide if either side is guilty of anything.  I’m sure they both have attorneys or legal departments that can handle that.  I would rather occupy my time using the products and letting the results speak for itself rather than accuse or argue about them.  Life is too short.  

As for the original question,  Jim I have used several products on the market for finishing over the years.  If your looking for durability, I have found that with a plexi finish, lacquer and CA ( mostly without accelerators) but they all take time applying and curing.  Recently GluBoost was introduced to us for pen finishes and I have had the opportunity to apply it on a few alumilite casts to get a better shine.  It is by far the fastest glue finish I have applied and it shined up very easily.  The cost is a little more but you won’t have to spend as much time or use as much product to achieve a nice finish. Just my humble opinion.


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## TonyL (Aug 19, 2018)

I watched the guitar repair videos. Assuming seeing is believing, it was being used on some very high-end instruments.


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## PatrickR (Aug 19, 2018)

I have been using Mercury flex for a while now and love it. If someone has hands on experience using it and Gluboost side by side I’d love to hear about it. Otherwise Ill stick with Mercury.


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## Jim H (Aug 19, 2018)

alphageek said:


> Jim H said:
> 
> 
> > Ok, I know this will be a can of worms :biggrin:
> ...



Boy, I did didn’t I 
I have an order from Ed coming. I will be working long hours next week trying to make sure I can go to SWAT, but week after next I will be trying it out


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