# How Do I Remove the Brass Tube?



## BKind2Anmls (Dec 30, 2013)

To make a long story short, I have really messed up inserting brass tubes into laser cut blanks.  I need to remove the tubes, which have been glued in, and glue in new ones. As you know, the blanks are too expensive to just abandon.

How can I remove the tube without destroying the blanks?

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In case someone needs to know, here is the long story.

I bought quite a few laser cut blanks while they were on sale.  I was setting up an assembly line to make a lot of pens (not just laser cut) and had the various kits set out with their drilled matching blanks.  Next step, glue in the tubes.

The laser blanks said they fit "Sierra-style" kits.

I had bought the Le Roi kits (said to be Sierra-style) and, in my haste and ennui, did not notice how short the tubes were. I glued the Le Roi tubes into the blank.  Then, the next day I looked and, uh oh, the tubes were too short to allow the entire laser inlay to be used. 

So I had a wonderful idea! (not)

I would order extra Le Roi tubes and glue in a small piece in the empty end of the blank. Then, having found out that the Le Roi kits would be a problem to make work with the longer tubes, I would just go ahead and get Sierra kits but use them with the hybrid LeRoi tubes.

Guess what! Le Roi tubes were out of stock so I ordered Sierra tubes from another dealer.

I glued these in the empty end of the blank, let them dry a long while and then cut off the tube sticking out of the blank. I then cut this hybrid blank blank down to the length of a Sierra tube in order to use the Sierra kits (which were long enough to allow me to keep the entire inlay).

When I began to clean out the blanks/tubes, some of the small tube pieces came out.  I expected this and glued them back in.

When I tried to insert my TBC bushings into the tube, I discovered that the inside diameter of the Le Roi tubes and the Sierra tubes are different.  So I now have two different inside diameter tubes in each blank.

Bah Humbug! I have really messed this all up so I want to remove the existing tubes and glue in whole, Sierra, full-length tubes.

That is the sad story of someone who did something really dumb. Please help me figure out how to get out of this mess.


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## 1080Wayne (Dec 30, 2013)

What kind of glue was used a) on the tubes , b) on the laser cut pieces ?


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## TwoCatsPens (Dec 30, 2013)

I would probably go the other route.  Get a fine round or half round file and just start filing out the tube end that is too narrow.  I'd check frequently on the fit, and make sure that the pen mechanism will fit in fine too.  If you're lucky (and you hardly ever are on these things) the end that is too small will be the end with the clip, so you've always got the option of glue if you hog it out a little too much.  If it's the pen mechanism end, you're going to probably have to be a bit more careful.

If you had a really steady hand, and it wasn't too deep in, I imagine that a narrow cylinder type grinding stone on a dremel could also do it.  

I think I'd go that way rather then try and remove the brass tube. 

Hope this works out for you... 

Steve


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## BKind2Anmls (Dec 30, 2013)

I was afraid someone would ask about the type of glue.  I'm pretty sure it was thick CA on the tube and thin CA to glue in the inlay. I did use epoxy on some of my tubes but am not sure if it was these.  Sorry, but I glued tubes in over 100 blanks that evening and, especially at my age, it is all a blur......


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## thewishman (Dec 30, 2013)

Could you throw the whole blank in acetone? You could then remove the tube and re-glue the laser parts back in.


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## Waluy (Dec 30, 2013)

You could try using a heat gun (as evenly as possible) to melt the glue and get it flowing again. Also an acetone bath (soak) before the heat gun could be beneficial as well. You'll need to reglue the inlay afterwards but it should be possible to remove the tubes. 

Another method I have had some success with is to get a wooden dowel that is a snug fit in the tube and longer than the tube length x 2. Chuck the dowel up and run it on the lathe while pushing the blank on until the tube heats up which heats up the glue and the snug fit should bring the tube out. This is the method I use for tubes glued into acrylic incorrectly. YMMV


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## ed4copies (Dec 30, 2013)

You have a Leroy tube at one end, and a sierra tube at the other.  Correct??

Is the Leroy tube large enough diameter to allow you to use a standard sierra transmission without it interfering?  If a sierra transmission will pass through the tube, the next part will work.

If so, drill  about 3/8 to half an inch of the Leroy tube out (use a drill bit that is just larger than the opening, so you are removing the brass as "sawdust")  Insert a sierra tube in that end and glue in place.  You now have a sierra size tube at both ends and a LeRoy size in the middle---correct??

Now, make a normal sierra pen.  Use normal fittings--the pen should work fine.


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## PenMan1 (Dec 30, 2013)

IMHO, here is your simplest option.

Since the LeRoi is too short for the entire laser image, but the same diameter as the Sierra, you could glue in a Sierra tube from the other end. Be sure to push the second tube in until it meets the end of LeRoi tube. THEN, use another Sierra tube to measure and cut the blank in the proper places to make a Sierra pen. DO NOT USE A PEN MILL (you should never use one on a laser cut blank anyway)TO TRIM THE ENDS AS THE MILL WILL DESTROY THE TUBES AND THE BLANK.

THERE IS a way to remove the glued in tubes, BUT IT MUST BE DONE ON THE LATHE AND REQUIRES SOME ADVANCED SKILLS. The method includes making a CA and surgical gauze band aid over the cured laser blank, THEN using the same drill bit you used to make the hole (on Sierra, this is usually 27/64) and drill out the tube. WARNING: Proceedure requires advanced skills and precision lathe drilling. For a new pen maker, I hesitate to recommend this method as drilling faster than 500 RPMs is destined to crack the laser blank, EVEN WITH the CA bandaid applied.


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## PenMan1 (Dec 30, 2013)

Putting in another tube from the other end and then making the blank the correct size with a band saw, hand coping or miter saw or even a thin blade parting knife is EASY PEASY! AND IT WORKS JUST FINE.

DAMHIKT


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## BKind2Anmls (Dec 30, 2013)

PenMan1,

What you are suggesting is what I did...that is why I am in this mess. LOL

I did glue in a Sierra tube in the other end, but, the two tubes have two different inside diameters.  The Sierra tube is smaller.

Ed4copies,

I see what you are saying, so I will end up with a short Sierra tube at both ends. I could try it but I don't know that I can drill it out so precisely.

Having soaked off CA glue before using acetone, I know the glue gets gummy. I will try soaking a blank for 24 hours and see what happens.

I am going to try the dowel first (I will use one of my PSI dis-assembly rods) and then a heat gun.

Thanks everyone.


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## randyrls (Dec 30, 2013)

CA glue will soften at about 275° to 300° F  Place the tubes into an oven set to this temp.  I would also wrap the blanks in some kind of aluminum foil.  They might smell up the oven otherwise.


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## edstreet (Dec 30, 2013)

Tape up the outside of the tubes.

Put some type of material on a shaft on the lathe, paper towel, t-shirt, denim, does not matter.  What does matter is it goes inside the brass tube.  Taper the material on the shaft so you as you push the black into the head of the lathe the material will force the brass tube out of the blank on the bottom.

Your goal is to turn the material inside the tube and generate friction heat.  Careful to not burn yourself 

Once sufficient heat is generated the glue will soften/break and the tube will come out much easier.


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## 08K.80 (Dec 30, 2013)

It seems all of the solutions are attempting to remove the tube as a whole piece.
Maybe I'm wrong, but couldn't the hole just be re-drilled with the original drill bit and cut the tube out? That is what I would try......... and probably damage the whole thing. Would that work or has anyone tried it?


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## skiprat (Dec 30, 2013)

I reckon any attempt to drill out the tube will catch and rip the whole thing apart. Chalk it up to experience and save them somewhere safe. One day you can use them in a kitless pen. 

Maybe use them on a long clicker with oops bands on the ends or something? This pen has a pre-tube sierra blank in the middle with two black oops bands...:wink:


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## BKind2Anmls (Dec 30, 2013)

*Success! Mostly*

I used the disassembly set from PSI--the soft-jawed pliers and the punch set.

I put my drill chuck in the headstock and inserted a punch rod that would fit very closely into the Le Roi tube.  

I held the blank in the pliers and placed the Le Roi end on the rod and turned on the lathe.  I let it get hot and then pushed the blank toward the headstock which popped out the short Sierra tube piece. The short piece stuck very tightly to the rod but some regular pliers let me get it off.

Then I held the blank on the spinning rod till it got hot again. I pulled it off the rod and inserted a slightly bigger rod into the now tubeless end and used a hammer to tap out the Le Roi tube.

I did a real good job of gluing for 7 out of the 9 because it took repeated heating/hammering to finally break the tube loose.

One blank, the rose, didn't make it.  No matter what I did I couldn't get the tube loose. I finally tapped it a little too hard and it shattered.

The others were just fine though and the new Sierra tubes fit perfectly. Although the rose was my favorite, I can live with losing only one blank.

My thanks to everyone who responded, especially those who pointed out that heat would be my best bet. Steve's idea did it for me.


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## Waluy (Jan 3, 2014)

Glad it worked for you wish it would have helped save the rose as well but at least now you have a new technique for tube removal when oops happen.


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## Smitty37 (Jan 3, 2014)

If I may ask a question --- just how much shorter was the Le Roi tube than the Sierra? The Le Roi is spec'd to take the same length tube as the Sierra and I don't quite understand what could have happened here. A little different i.d. is not surprising but the length should be within about a gnats eyebrow.  One other minor point - I have never had Le Roi tubes out of stock that I can recall.


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## juteck (Jan 3, 2014)

Another idea if this ever happens again is to abandon the Sierra idea and make cigar pens. The 10mm tube fits inside the Sierra tube. The cigar fitting diameters are a little bigger, so you'll turn less away from the laser inlay.  Unless the pieces were inserted deeply into the main body, you should have enough meat to do it.   

I'm not sure if this link will show up from my phone, but the baseball inlay on this cigar is a Sierra sized inlay.   'Little League Coaches Gifts'

http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums...lOakRedSeox-Fall20131216x1280_zpsece7499d.jpg


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## frank123 (Jan 3, 2014)

If you don't mind spending a few bucks -mayb e 20 or so- on a tool:

Get a reamer the exact size of the tube OD and just ream it out (sort of like drilling it out but with much more precision).  You could do it an a drillpress, lathe, or by hand but keep in mind that axial alignment of the reamer and the tube bore are important.

Reamers are usually findable in about any size in .001 increments and some sizes of .0005 increments but you may have to look for them a bit or have a machine supply house order you one.


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## BKind2Anmls (Jan 3, 2014)

I hope you don't think I'm blaming you, Smitty. I tried to make it clear in my post that it was MY stupid mistake for not being more observant. There isn't a lot of difference, like you said, but it was enough that I was going to lose a little of the inlay.

I discarded the tubes I got out of the blanks but I did rummage through the garbage and found one of them.  On the left is the Le Roi and on the right one of the tubes from the new Sierra kits I purchased. 

Your website said the Le Roi tubes were out of stock when this happened, but I checked back a couple of days ago and was able to order them to go with my kits. I look forward to making them. I haven't looked at the length of the replacement blanks

If I'd have pushed your tube further down in the blank, centered it more, I probably could have kept a couple of the blanks with a shorter inlay. Like I said, I wasn't observant enough and messed it all up.

Even with the Sierra tubes, there is not much room on some of the blanks, like the cardinal.


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## BKind2Anmls (Jan 3, 2014)

Smitty,

I just checked the new Le Roi blanks I ordered and they are the same length as the Sierra tubes. I also checked the Le Roi packages I haven't opened and only found one shorter tube out of the 3 remaining. 

I know for sure that two of the tubes I used were too short for the inlay and I just assumed I would have to remove them all, which I did. I can't honestly say I gave the remaining ones more than a cursory glance so they may have been a normal length.

Seeing the replacement tubes and the unused packages, this looks to be just an aberration of a couple of kits and I'm sure the kits, with the replacement tubes, will turn out great.


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## Tage (Jan 3, 2014)

Just curious if the Sierra kit you used was a click?  Those tube are longer than the twist.


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## BKind2Anmls (Jan 3, 2014)

It was a twist I got from Berea Hardwoods.


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## Smitty37 (Jan 3, 2014)

BKind2Anmls said:


> I hope you don't think I'm blaming you, Smitty. I tried to make it clear in my post that it was MY stupid mistake for not being more observant. There isn't a lot of difference, like you said, but it was enough that I was going to lose a little of the inlay.
> 
> I discarded the tubes I got out of the blanks but I did rummage through the garbage and found one of them. On the left is the Le Roi and on the right one of the tubes from the new Sierra kits I purchased.
> 
> ...


I'm not at all concerned about blame .... I'm trying to figure out what is going on... I have in my collection both Le Roi and Sierra kits and there is no way they have tubes with 1/4 inch difference in length.  So if the tube on the right is a standard Sierra tube the one on the left must be the wrong length for a Le Roi and I'll need to look into it before someone else gets burned.  Could you measure the lengths of the tubes please - I'd appreciate that very much.


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## Smitty37 (Jan 3, 2014)

I just measured about 50 tubes from kits I have in stock - they came in right in the range given in the library for Sierra kits 2.210 inches give or take .006 or so.  So it looks like it isn't a general problem -- I think there is one version of the Sierra that has shorter tubes but I don't sell that.  I can only think that one of the packers grabbed a handful of tubes from the wrong bin.  That much length difference would result in the pen either not assembling correctly or if it could be assembled, not extending or retracting correctly and I've not had any other reports of short tubes.


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