# Heaters and K-1 kerosene



## mick (Dec 17, 2009)

I'd had a kerosene heater sitting in the garage for 9 or 10 years. I don't know how much it had been used before I got it but I've never used it until today. I searched around town and found a store selling what they advertised as K-1  but when I pumped it, it was dyed red. the K-1 I remember from years ago wasn't red. I cleaned the heater up and fired it up....man it stank. I don't know if it's because whoever had the heater before left old kero in it or because of the dyed kerosene. I looked online and there's varying opinions as to whether K-1 and Dyed kero are the same thing and also found arguments as to whether the red burns as clean as clear K-1. I know the members here are smarter than members of other forums....so what say you?

I think I may toss the kerosene heater and go with something like propane, maybe a Mr. Heater type.


----------



## Whaler (Dec 17, 2009)

I was getting to much moisture in the air with my kerosene heater so I dumped it and went with a Mr Heater propane unit and am much happier.


----------



## DozerMite (Dec 17, 2009)

I've never seen the red kero, but they put red dye in off-road diesel and it's illegal to use it for highway. DOT will dip your tank and pass out fines.


----------



## Sylvanite (Dec 17, 2009)

The red dye is an additive that they put in to show that the road tax has not been paid.  It does not affect the kerosene's performance.  It burns just as cleanly as undyed K1.  I've been using it to heat my shop for years.

Regards,
Eric


----------



## mick (Dec 17, 2009)

DozerMite said:


> I've never seen the red kero, but they put red dye in off-road diesel and it's illegal to use it for highway. DOT will dip your tank and pass out fines.



Yeah, that's what I read...but I never found an explaination as to why the Kero was dyed red other than a post on some forum stating that #1 diesel and K-1 Kero was the same stuff and the same as you said the fuel tax hasn't been added to the offroad stuff.


----------



## Oldwagon (Dec 17, 2009)

The fuel oil I get is red.It is #2 fuel oil.This stuff burns good and hot.


----------



## DozerMite (Dec 17, 2009)

Diesel and kero are not the same. They have different flashpoints, diesel is higher, and diesel doesn't have the lubricants in it. It's heavier wieght too. Don't use diesel in a heater that doesn't say it will burn it. It will mess it up.


----------



## mick (Dec 17, 2009)

DozerMite said:


> Diesel and kero are not the same. They have different flashpoints, diesel is higher, and diesel doesn't have the lubricants in it. It's heavier wieght too. Don't use diesel in a heater that doesn't say it will burn it. It will mess it up.



See... that's what I've always thought....now somebody posted it on the internet....so everyone will think it's true :wink:


----------



## Robert Taylor (Dec 17, 2009)

diesel and kero are deffinately no way shape or form the same. well maybe shape as they are both liquids. diesel is a petroleum product. kerosene is a coal product.


----------



## snyiper (Dec 18, 2009)

I beg to differ they are dirived from the same base.

*WHAT IS FUEL OIL?*
Fuel oil is a general term for a number of burnable liquids made from crude oil. Most common is Fuel Oil No.1 (also called kerosene), range oil, and jet fuel (JP5). Fuel oils 1-D and 2-D are diesel fuels. Fuel oil No. 2 is home heating oil, and fuel oil No. 4 is a diesel fuel for boats. All fuel oil mixtures have similar chemical and physical properties. 

Source:http://dhs.wisconsin.gov/eh/ChemFS/fs/fueloil.htm


----------



## Rifleman1776 (Dec 18, 2009)

Lot of confusing MIS-information here, some of it mixed with facts making the situation foggy.
K1 is water clear kerosene and it burns very cleanly. Anything mixed with it will burn with results other than clean. If you don't know with 1000% certainty what it is, don't burn, especially in a confined area, it could be deadly.
You can buy K1 at many gasoline stations. Look for the K1 pump, bring your own (clean, non-glass) container.


----------



## David M (Dec 18, 2009)

most kerosene  pumps have short hoses , keep the truckers from pumping it in diesel tanks .  some do it in cold weather to thin diesel fuel out to keep it from gelling . could have been died to keep them from using it as on road fuel / with out road tax .


----------



## mick (Dec 18, 2009)

Rifleman1776 said:


> Lot of confusing MIS-information here, some of it mixed with facts making the situation foggy.
> K1 is water clear kerosene and it burns very cleanly. Anything mixed with it will burn with results other than clean. If you don't know with 1000% certainty what it is, don't burn, especially in a confined area, it could be deadly.
> You can buy K1 at many gasoline stations. Look for the K1 pump, bring your own (clean, non-glass) container.


 
Frank, that's where the problem arose. The pump and all the store's signage is clearly marked K-1 but when pumped it was dyed. It had been a number of years since I'd used any so I didn't know if things had changed or not. it definitely didn't burn clean...this could also be a result of a bad wick in the heater. As said above I think I'm tossing the heater and going propane. In the past using a different heater and the water clear kerosene I never noticed any smell except when you let the heater burn dry.


----------



## TellicoTurning (Dec 18, 2009)

bettyt44720 said:


> diesel and kero are deffinately no way shape or form the same. well maybe shape as they are both liquids. diesel is a petroleum product. kerosene is a coal product.



I going to repeat this as trivia... not sure as to the validity, but gasoline and kerosine have different flash points.... back when petroleum was first being refined, they were refining for Kerosine and gasoline was a waste product that boiled off first... it was actually burned as a waste product.

I don't know if there is a difference, but as a child, my parents often referred to the fuel we burned in the cook stove as coal oil... I think it was kerosine.

My grandfather had a Model A car for a number of years... he had two fuel tanks on it... one with kerosine and one with gasoline... he would always switch on the gasoline to start the car, then shift to the kerosine tank for most of his trips... switching back to gasoline the last couple of miles so the lines would be clear of the Kero... and the car would start again.


----------



## jleiwig (Dec 18, 2009)

mick said:


> Frank, that's where the problem arose. The pump and all the store's signage is clearly marked K-1 but when pumped it was dyed. It had been a number of years since I'd used any so I didn't know if things had changed or not. it definitely didn't burn clean...this could also be a result of a bad wick in the heater. As said above I think I'm tossing the heater and going propane. In the past using a different heater and the water clear kerosene I never noticed any smell except when you let the heater burn dry.


 
On July 1,1998, a new federal excise of 24.4 cents per gallon was imposed on kerosene. Congress enacted the kerosene tax as part of the Taxpayer Relief Act of 1997. The law requires that kerosene be taxed or dyed (for non-taxable use). The law was enacted to prevent untaxed kerosene from being used as a taxable diesel fuel. Under the law, # 811, terminals that sell kerosene must offer both clear taxable kerosene and dyed non-taxable kerosene by July 1, 1998. 

TAX RATE: 24.4 cents per gallon


----------



## jleiwig (Dec 18, 2009)

So in Summary, Kerosene dyed red for home heating oil(IRS regs) use has 5 times the dye used to dye it red for high-sulfured farm/non-onroad use (EPA regs). It is nasty stuff and the dye will not come off.  Even if you drained your tank it would still probably be dyed red. 

You can still buy clear Kerosene in the gallon cans in stores.  That's about the only place you'll find it. I'd go propane. Cleaner burning and probably easier to find as well.


----------



## Sylvanite (Dec 18, 2009)

mick said:


> it definitely didn't burn clean...this could also be a result of a bad wick in the heater. ... In the past using a different heater and the water clear kerosene I never noticed any smell except when you let the heater burn dry.


Dyed kerosene is still made to be burned as a heating oil and as an off-road motor oil.  It just is not legal to use as an on-road motor oil.  The dye may stain but it burns just fine.  I've used it for years to heat my shop and the only time I get any smoke or odor is when I shut the heaters off (well, that and the time my brother-in-law filled them with diesel fuel).  If you aren't getting a clean burn, I'd suspect a problem with the heater, not the dye in the fuel.  Is the heater new, or has it sat for a long time?  It might just need to run for a while to saturate the wick - or the wick might not be drawing properly.

Regards,
Eric


----------



## workinforwood (Dec 18, 2009)

I can't enter the debate on what Kerosene is, but I can tell you it sure delivers a lot of moisture and stink into the air.  No thanks!  My dad had one in the garage for me to use many years ago.  The heat put off from that heater was not that great and the cost was expensive, and it was messy to boot, you had to pump or pour the kerosene into a tank, get that stuff all over you and the smell won't go away, like it soaks into the skin.  The only good thing is that it sure makes a good cleaner.


----------



## workinforwood (Dec 18, 2009)

Mudpuppie said:


> most kerosene  pumps have short hoses , keep the truckers from pumping it in diesel tanks .  some do it in cold weather to thin diesel fuel out to keep it from gelling . could have been died to keep them from using it as on road fuel / with out road tax .



As a trucker, I know that if I put Kerosene in my truck I am in for a world of hurt!  My truck will only run properly on Ultra Low sulfur Diesel.  Regular Diesel in my truck does not yield happy results!  They do put an anti-freeze type of stuff in the fuel, but where I live, that isn't good enough.  I have a heater that heats my ULSD inside the tank.  I don't know about why they use whatever hose lengths they do with Kerosene, I don't know much about Kerosene other than if you put it in a Semi Truck built after 2006 then it's going to cost you thousands of dollars in damages to the vehicle.  I dont know much about this red dye stuff either..the fuel I use is blue in the summer, green in the winter.  I have driven almost 2 million miles in a tractor trailer and never had a DOT look into my tanks, let alone dip them to see what's inside.  I think they might have tipped me over and dipped me, but not the truck :biggrin:


----------



## DozerMite (Dec 18, 2009)

They don't usually dip tractor trailer tanks. It's the dually's and 3/4 tons that people use on farms and have the off-road diesel on hand for the tractors, the tractors used for plowing and such, not semi's. They tend to fill their truck tanks with the stuff.
I always used the anti-gel year round. It has lubricants in it for the ULSD. That stuff eats injectors and at $800 a piece, it's worth the $.05 per gallon extra. I never had a problem, but know of several people who have.


----------

