# eliminating finish rings



## Rifleman1776 (May 8, 2005)

O.K., stubborn ole me is about to admit a problem and start listening to those with more experience and better results. My pens end up with finish rings from the final application and I want to eliminate that and come out with a smooth finish. Gloss is fine with me, high sheen doesn't suit my tastes. Right now, my process after turning is, using Klingspore Gold: 220, 320 then white non-woven pad of 800 to 1200 grit depending on whose ads you believe. Sanding is done at high speed after a with-grain sand-down (off, of course). This is successful in giving the wood a surface I like. I believe it to be a successful sanding technique. Then I apply two or more coats of Mylands Sanding Sealer, two or more coats of Mylands Friction Finish, then two or more coats of Mylands Melamine Finish. All looks good, except and that's a big EXCEPT, in the right light there are rings around the pen from the final application. I apply with lathe on at slow speed. I have tried 0000 steel wood but that only dulls the finish. I have tried the white pad but same dulling effect. My application material is old socks and t-shirts. Paper towel has been tried but it sticks to the finish. Help! P.S. I haven't tried the waxes being concerned that they might not offer a durable finish.


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## rtjw (May 8, 2005)

Have you tried the CA finish?


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## JimGo (May 8, 2005)

Frank,
Are you sanding with the grain after each grit, or just in the beginning?  After looking closely at some of my pens in person, Lou (DCBluesMan) suggested going with the grain after each grit, and it made a big difference for me.  That and using MicroMesh.  Usually, by the time I'm done, there aren't any rings at that stage.  Then, depending on the wood, I'll use BLO/CA, Shellawax, or a poly.  I do sometimes get rings from this application (moreso with Shellawax and the poly than the BLO/CA); these I can buff out with the white diamond like compound on my El Cheapo buffing pad that I got from HF ($5) (mounts in my drill press) once the that finish has cured.  To get a really nice shine, I add a coat of TSW on top and re-buff.


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## Rifleman1776 (May 8, 2005)

JimGo, my rings are the finish, not the wood surface. The sanding I am doing does a fine job on all but the punkiest of woods. The finish looks OK after the Mylands Friction finish. But the final Melemine is the one giving the problem, it can't be 'burned' in like the friction finish. I have a theory that maybe it dries too fast and I am destroying it while in the tacky stage. I might try mixing up a shellac with high solvent content so it dries slowly.


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## Old Griz (May 8, 2005)

Frank, why are you using both Mylands Friction Finish and Melamine Lacquer... you only need one or the other.... 
Also are you buffing the sanding sealer after it dries.. that could also be a problem... 
I use sanding sealer buffed with 000000 steel wool cloth then either a CA finish or a Lacquer finish... if I use the lacquer, I let it cure for a couple of days before the final step that I use on both finishes, polish with Hut or Novus Plastic polish.. that should remove any swirl marks or rings... 
BUT DO NOT do it to the lacquer until it has cured.  Mylands Melamine is lacquer and needs to cure before it is buffed to a high gloss...


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## its_virgil (May 8, 2005)

Hut Crystal coat has an expiration date and I suspect others do also. Pat Lawson has reported similar swirls with crystal coat, when she was using it, and noticed the expiration date. Replace it with a fresh supplsyh and the rings disappeared. But instead of spending more $ on friction polish, I think you would be much happier with CA or lacquer as a finish. Friction polish does not last when pieces are handled daily. Lacquer needs to cure for a couple or three days prior to buffing and so does Mylands Melamine Finish, which is lacquer based. But purchasing lacquer is much cheaper than purchasing lacquer with Myland's name on it. I use lacquer cut with lacquer thinner 50-50, apply 5 or six coats on lathe (it dries fast) and buff after 3 days of curring. But, my finish of choice is CA, but some woods don't take a CA finish, and then I use lacquer. When the CA fumes start to cause problems, I'll move to lacquer totally, odorless CA is way too expensive.
Do a good turn daily!
Don


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## DCBluesman (May 8, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Rifleman_
> <br />I apply with lathe on at slow speed. I have tried 0000 steel wood but that only dulls the finish. I have tried the white pad but same dulling effect. My application material is old socks and t-shirts.


After your top coat has cured, do a light sanding lengthwise with MM12000 or grocery bag (they're about the same).  This will eliminate the swirl marks you are getting from applying your finishes with the lathe spinning. (You may want to do this after each series of build coats.  I do and I think Jim (JimGo) and Michael (MDWine) will attest to their being no cylindrical marks on my finish.)


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## DCBluesman (May 8, 2005)

As a follow on to Don's note, all friction polishes begin breaking down after 6 months.  By the 1 year mark they should be discarded. (I get rid of the stuff I make after 6 months.)


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## Rifleman1776 (May 8, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Old Griz_
> <br />Frank, why are you using both Mylands Friction Finish and Melamine Lacquer... you only need one or the other....
> Also are you buffing the sanding sealer after it dries.. that could also be a problem...
> I use sanding sealer buffed with 000000 steel wool cloth then either a CA finish or a Lacquer finish... if I use the lacquer, I let it cure for a couple of days before the final step that I use on both finishes, polish with Hut or Novus Plastic polish.. that should remove any swirl marks or rings...
> BUT DO NOT do it to the lacquer until it has cured.  Mylands Melamine is lacquer and needs to cure before it is buffed to a high gloss...




Tom, no. I only wait a few seconds then add the next layer. I use Friction Finish because it does a good job and dries quickly, I like the results. The melamine goes over that for durability. I don't sand or buff between coats. Where do you get your 6-ought steel wool? I don't recall seeing any over 4-ought. Will page the catalogs tonight. Waiting to buff sounds like more mandrels are in my future. And a small buffer thingy to put on something to spin it. And I'll probably get some of the MM12000 too. What grit is that?


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## Old Griz (May 8, 2005)

Hut has the steel wool cloth I use.. it is the only place I have seen it..
You can add additional coats of lacquer over each other because each coat will burn into the coat below it... but it still have to cure before being buffed out... depending on the temp/humidity in your area it could be anywhere from 2-3 days to a week...


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## Rifleman1776 (May 9, 2005)

The suggestions for ultra fine sanding mediums, including steel wool, gave me an idea. Why not wool? As in: real wool. So, I dug into a box of historical reenactment garments and came up with a scrap of wool blanket material. Following Tom and Lou's and others suggestion to fine sand with the grain between finish layers, I did just that with the wool. After sanding sealer, friction finish and melamine, I rubbed the shown duck call with the wood in an attempt to rid it of finish rings. The results are promising. A much small item, like a pen might react differently but I'll be using the wool for a while. Somewhere in the boxes of my reenactment 'stuff' is some sheeps wool. I'm going to dig that out and give a try later. Call barrel shown is spalted oak, usually not an easy wood to finish.





<br />


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## JimGo (May 9, 2005)

Looks like a pretty successful test Frank!  Great idea!


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## lkorn (May 9, 2005)

Frank,
If you can't find your sheepswool pieces, try your local pharmacy. They usually have it in small "Dr. Scholl's" packages.


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## Old Griz (May 9, 2005)

Frank just remember one thing.. raw sheeps wool contains a lot of lanolin.. that could cause a problem on any finish you put over it... you will need to get that off the wood before proceeding to another top finish... However, if you use it on the final top coat, it will probably give the pen a nice patina and smooth feel... don't know how long it would last though..


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## Rifleman1776 (May 9, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Old Griz_
> <br />Frank just remember one thing.. raw sheeps wool contains a lot of lanolin.. that could cause a problem on any finish you put over it... you will need to get that off the wood before proceeding to another top finish... However, if you use it on the final top coat, it will probably give the pen a nice patina and smooth feel... don't know how long it would last though..



I found my wool. These are processed skins, the lanolin is gone. A follow-up test was non-productive. The blanket was more successful.


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## jdavis (May 10, 2005)

I feel that buffing should clear you finish of rings.


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## emsmith (May 10, 2005)

The wool paint roller buffer http://www.penturners.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2806&SearchTerms=paint,buffer did wonders for removing the rings from my friction polished pens.  I divided the roller into 4 equal sections and used a sharpie to draw rings to divide the sections.  Roller was $9 at a sherwin williams store, and I got the tripoli and white diamond compounds from AS.  On my Jet mini I use the 4th set of pulleys from the left as you face the lathe.


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