# Wally word rant



## Gary Max (Feb 12, 2009)

Wally world is building store everywhere around here----two last year within 40 miles with one already sitting between them.
Now they are reducing they stores inventory?????
This makes no sense to me.
The item that set this rant off----No longer selling Devcon 2 part Epoxy.
I bought the last they had in the close out section.
I told the manager that his sales #'s will drop if there ain't nothing in the store.


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## sbell111 (Feb 12, 2009)

They build stores so it is more convenient to go to Wal-Mart than their competitors.  They limit inventory to the things that sell best.  These are two seperate business decisions that are both smart, in my opinion.


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## pipecrafter (Feb 12, 2009)

Smart for Wal-Mart - hell for competition.  I refuse to shop at Wal-Mart.  I wouldn't go there if they were the last place around.  They're not getting any of my money.


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## Dario (Feb 12, 2009)

Walmart is a business and each of us can choose to either patronize them or not.

I do, because I can get items there cheaper than most.  The "saturated" locations makes it more convenient for me because of shorter commutes .  This mattered to me a lot especially when gas prices were through the roof.

I also like buying my car batteries and tires from them...anywhere I go, I can have it serviced (warranty) if there is any problem.  

They have their strong points and weak points and really depends on what is important to you.


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## mrcook4570 (Feb 12, 2009)

pipecrafter said:


> I wouldn't go there if they were the last place around.



Unfortunately, they ARE the last place around in many areas.  They move in with a huge selection and low prices and all of the little guys close up shop.  Then they cut back on their inventory.


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## pipecrafter (Feb 12, 2009)

mrcook4570 said:


> Unfortunately, they ARE the last place around in many areas.  They move in with a huge selection and low prices and all of the little guys close up shop.  Then they cut back on their inventory.



Which is precisely why I don't patronize them.  I choose to go to the mom-n-pop places almost exclusively.


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## sbell111 (Feb 12, 2009)

mrcook4570 said:


> Unfortunately, they ARE the last place around in many areas.  They move in with a huge selection and low prices and all of the little guys close up shop.  Then they cut back on their inventory.


If I were making decisions at WM, that's exactly what I would do.  Move into any area, give the competition a beating, and then tweak inventory to maximize profits and minimize those goods that don't turn quickly.  That's smart business.


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## GouletPens (Feb 12, 2009)

My wife and I did a case study on Walmart in college (just a few years ago...I'm pretty fresh out) and it's actually amazing how they run their business. Despite the controversial labor and benefit aspects of the company, they've actually done some remarkable process improvement that has been a benchmark for almost every company in the world to model after in some fashion. If there's anything to be mad about, it's that we didn't buy their stock at the IPO!!!!


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## JimB (Feb 12, 2009)

Gary - the single biggest expense any retailer has is the cost of their inventory.  It's not payroll or rent. Therefore they do everything they can to keep inventory at the bare minimum and to eliminate items that do not sell well. It isn't anything different than what everyone does here. If a particular pen style does not sell then we don't continue to make it. I've seen many people on here talk about pens they have in their inventory for a long time. I'm sure when they finally do sell them they will not make another one like it.


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## GouletPens (Feb 12, 2009)

JimB said:


> Gary - the single biggest expense any retailer has is the cost of their inventory. It's not payroll or rent. Therefore they do everything they can to keep inventory at the bare minimum and to eliminate items that do not sell well. It isn't anything different than what everyone does here. If a particular pen style does not sell then we don't continue to make it. I've seen many people on here talk about pens they have in their inventory for a long time. I'm sure when they finally do sell them they will not make another one like it.


 yeah, Circuit City decided to cut back their inventory and that worked out pretty well for them. I'm from Richmond, the CC headquarters and it's sad to see a 50-year icon spread to the wind....:frown:


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## Gary Max (Feb 12, 2009)

It's not a matter of  "things that don't sell"
From the looks of it they are cutting about a 1/3 of their inventory.
Sections of the store are so spread out now it almost empty
I told the manager that there was no advatage of shopping in a empty store.
The positive side-----the have several simi loads of Valentine candy ?????


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## BullDurham (Feb 12, 2009)

Shop Wal=Mart and send your money to China!


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## maxwell_smart007 (Feb 12, 2009)

I'd like to be able to shop elsewhere, but I just cannot afford to.  for people with money, there are options, but if you're struggling to make ends meet, the 'buy-local' option just doesnt work...

Why would I pay three times as much for groceries when I can barely afford to shop at Wally's?  I wish I had options, but the reality is that I don't...and many, many people are in the same boat, which is why Walmart does so well...


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## Pen Maker (Feb 12, 2009)

Wait a minute...  





> I'm from Richmond, the CC headquarters


  Were'nt you from Ashland YESTERDAY in another thread? Did you move last nite? How you like it? What's the property tax like there? Pardon me, I just thought that was funny.


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## Nolan (Feb 12, 2009)

pipecrafter said:


> Smart for Wal-Mart - hell for competition. I refuse to shop at Wal-Mart. I wouldn't go there if they were the last place around. They're not getting any of my money.


 

Thank you I have been saying that for years!!!!!!!


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## BullDurham (Feb 12, 2009)

Well i am retired and on S-S. IF I have the money to do Pens as a hobby, them i'll not shop @ Wally world!!!!


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## GouletPens (Feb 12, 2009)

Pen Maker said:


> Wait a minute... Were'nt you from Ashland YESTERDAY in another thread? Did you move last nite? How you like it? What's the property tax like there? Pardon me, I just thought that was funny.


I grew up in Hanover county, which would be considered Metro Richmond. I've lived in the city of Richmond, Henrico county and Hanover county in 3 locations. I'm generalizing when I say 'from Richmond' b/c it's likely something people have heard of rather than Ashland. I'm technically about 15 minutes outside of the Richmond 'city limits' if you want to get technical. 

For that matter, how about this.....my house is in Mechanicsville, but my mailbox is across the street in Ashland which makes that my mailing address (the road I'm on divides the two). Where the hell should I say I live?!?!?!


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## Pen Maker (Feb 12, 2009)

Bull BullDurham I saw you in there last week loading up those little Jimmy Dean Sausage Biscuits so fast one would have thought a fire sale was going on due to a faulty Reefer. )


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## Pen Maker (Feb 12, 2009)

> Where the hell should I say I live?!?!?!


 
GOD'S COUNTRY works for me !!!!

P.S. Go see what I said about your tree, and don't let them tell you to JUST CUT IT. I been down that road, didn't like how it dead ended... DAMHIKT


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## GouletPens (Feb 12, 2009)

Mike probably knows what I'm talking about....if he's from Chesterfield he probably tells people from out of state he's in Richmond, even though he might technically not be.


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## Dario (Feb 12, 2009)

maxwell_smart007 said:


> I'd like to be able to shop elsewhere, but I just cannot afford to.  for people with money, there are options, but if you're struggling to make ends meet, the 'buy-local' option just doesnt work...
> 
> Why would I pay three times as much for groceries when I can barely afford to shop at Wally's?  I wish I had options, but the reality is that I don't...and many, many people are in the same boat, which is why Walmart does so well...



Amen.  

(Can you tell I am on the same boat?) :redface:


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## jimbob91577 (Feb 12, 2009)

Not trying to defend Wallyworld here, but think practical for a second:

If I wanted to buy a TV, Computer, etc. that was made in America (All parts, etc.) where would I do that and how much would I expect to pay? 

If jeans, shirts, coats, etc. were made in America, how much money would they cost?  How many taxes, regulations (Minimum wage, Prevailing wage), fees, etc. are imposed on the factories that would make those products - and who ends up paying for those?

What about produce, say I wanted to buy some lettuce, tomatoes, or other vegetables grown in America, harvested by American workers, shipped using American shipping companies - where would I do that, how much would I pay, and how much money is the farm being subsidised by the taxpayers?

As sick as it is, there is a reason we import low dollar items from 3rd world countries and until America wakes up that isn't going to change.  We could impose tarriffs on all imported goods to make them cost what it would cost to produce in America, but then all items that we export would be subjected to tarriffs in the countries that we export them to.  It is a vicious cycle that I don't see ending anytime soon, nor do I know how to solve it.  Further, government could pass laws that say people must buy American goods, but that takes away a huge personal liberty.  The only way I can see for the cost of goods to go down and Mom & Pop outlets to begin to flourish again is to quit regulating the price to produce things (Minimum wage/Prevailing wage, fewer taxes), more personal responsibility and common sense, and less greed.


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## sbell111 (Feb 12, 2009)

Last time I noticed, our pen parts were not made in Cleveland.


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## Pen Maker (Feb 12, 2009)

DOH


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## NewLondon88 (Feb 12, 2009)

I don't shop there, either.

Some say their business model is great .. stop carrying the products that
don't sell and keep the inventory overhead low.
If that's the way they did it, I don't think anyone would have a problem with it.
But they DON'T just eliminate the items that don't sell fast enough, they get
rid of everything but the flagship products. And in the process, they eliminate
the competitors who DO carry the items we want.

And it's our fault.   We let them do it.
We 'let' them by shopping there.

If enough people stopped shopping where they can't get what they need,
WM and other box stores would be forced to change some of their policies.

If I want to use a stain other than Minwax, I have to drive. If I want to 
get a decent cut of meat, I have to drive. If I want clothes that last past
the second washing, I have to drive.

I'm not saying that there isn't a place for low end products. But in the rush
to save money, we have let them eliminate our choices and now in many
areas, low end products are all that is left.

I'll drive.


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## babyblues (Feb 12, 2009)

NewLondon88 said:


> If enough people stopped shopping where they can't get what they need,  WM and other box stores would be forced to change some of their policies.



But that's where the argument falls apart.  People DO need what they sell and they do it better than anyone else.  What's wrong with that?  Just because they don't have EVERYTHING we could ever possibly want, doesn't mean they're the bad guy.  I understand the reasons, but I don't understand why all the hate for "big box stores."  If you haven't seen it, watch the episode of South Park about Wal-Mart.  It's not companies, it's people.

On topic:  Wal-Mart employs a "point of sale" type of inventory scheme.  When an item is purchased, Wal-Mart buys it and sells it at the same instant.  They don't "own" most of the inventory that sits on their shelves until a customer buys it.  They still have cost of goods sold, but the supplier doesn't get paid until Wal-Mart sells it.  They don't call it consignment, DAMHIKT, but it is.

I shop wherever I can find what I need.  I don't have an affinity for or an aversion to Wal-Mart.  If I can find something I need at Wal-Mart, I'll buy it there.  If I can find it at the local hardware store or supermarket or department store, I'll buy it there.  Simple as that.


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## NewLondon88 (Feb 12, 2009)

babyblues said:


> But that's where the argument falls apart.  People DO need what they sell and they do it better than anyone else.



I don't see it falling apart at all.. I didn't say nobody needs what they sell.
I said they take away the choices. People who shop there are likely to 
compromise on what they want because they aren't given a choice. The
retailers who carried what they really wanted are soon out of business.

I won't even get into 'better than anyone else'. Let's just say you and I will
never see eye to eye on that one.


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## JimB (Feb 12, 2009)

Gary Max said:


> Wally world is building store everywhere around here----two last year within 40 miles with one already sitting between them.
> Now they are reducing they stores inventory?????
> This makes no sense to me.
> The item that set this rant off----No longer selling Devcon 2 part Epoxy.
> ...


 
Remember, most retailers had a very bad Christmas and right now are having difficulty paying their bills. One way for them to raise the cash they need is to sell their inventory without buying new inventory right now. This will give them the cash they need to pay their bills. They may also be having credit problems and can't borrow the money.

They probably have the Valentine's candy for 2 reasons. They actually ordered it months ago and it sells very quickly in a short period of time so their cash investment in the merchandise comes back quickly. They will then be able to invest in other merchnadise (hopefully).

Edit: Forgot to mention... they probably signed the lease on the new store months ago before the economy went in the toilet so they are committed to building it.


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## BullDurham (Feb 12, 2009)

Pen Maker, Seeing me at wallyworld  or Sam's would be hard on any day. I have never  never been in either one in my life.
  Brian, that is why i am from Chesterfield, Va. about 4 miles outside of and not from richmond, and yes my mailing address is richmond


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## livertrans (Feb 12, 2009)

Walmart also "squeezes" their suppliers. Say you became a supplier for Walmart and now 3/4 of your business is sold to Walmart, now Walmart grabs you by the kahonas and says  to cut your prices to us by 8% .This is done time and time again.  You now are forced to do what?  Either you  start making less of a profit or lay off some workers. Time to hand out some pink slips and next time its pay raise time for your people you give them less. On the note of Chinease products... I now work for a major home improvement company at one of their distrubution centers and it is seldom I see any products unloaded from the trailors that are made in the USA. I more than once have said to myself that  no wonder so many of us Americans are unemployed or working for a wage that now allows us to just exsist from payday to payday. I once had a excellant job that payed  very very well. I worked there for 27 years.  Guess what? The Chinease now have my old job. Our country is now headed to be a third world country. I now shop at Walmart ( I worked at a Walmart for a short time where I was expected to do the work of two people and get paid minimum wage ) now that having a secure job is none exsistant,and have to work for less money than I have ever worked for in my lifetime I must stretch my penneys. I hate Walmart but I must shop there. Im mad as   hell but what am I going to do about it? When the wife gets home from work I guess we will go to Walmart and buy grocerys


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## Gary Max (Feb 12, 2009)

I have only ever meet one person that likes buying  junk from China.
The sad part is any store you shop at is full of items made in China.
The biggie
I need to find somewhere else to buy Epoxy.


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## Pen Maker (Feb 12, 2009)

uh, Autozone, Michaels, K-Mart, Tru-Value, Lowes...


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## JimB (Feb 12, 2009)

I believe Monty sell epoxy.


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## hunter-27 (Feb 12, 2009)

babyblues said:


> On topic:  Wal-Mart employs a "point of sale" type of inventory scheme.  When an item is purchased, Wal-Mart buys it and sells it at the same instant.  They don't "own" most of the inventory that sits on their shelves until a customer buys it.  They still have cost of goods sold, but the supplier doesn't get paid until Wal-Mart sells it.  They don't call it consignment, DAMHIKT, but it is.QUOTE]
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Dario (Feb 12, 2009)

Gary Max said:


> I have only ever meet one person that likes buying  junk from China.



While only a few might like buying stuff from China...most likely everyone is buying things from them...you and me included.

Where do you think most of our tools, equipment and kits are made?  The TV, computer, phone, clothes, etc. we use?  Some components (if not most) is likely from China.

They produce what we call "junk" but in not too long time now...they will surpass US quality wise.  We hardly produce anything now that our capability is deteriorating while theirs is improving.  

Japan products like cars and electronics was once considered inferior (not too long ago) look at them now.  China can do the same and I am happy for them.  What I am not happy for is what's happening to us.  We need to start producing m ore stuff locally again if we want to keep our edge or whatever remained of it.


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## GBusardo (Feb 12, 2009)

Dario said:


> Japan products like cars and electronics was once considered inferior (not too long ago) look at them now.  China can do the same and I am happy for them.  What I am not happy for is what's happening to us.  We need to start producing m ore stuff locally again if we want to keep our edge or whatever remained of it.



I totally agree. I remember when I was a kid in the 60's all the junk was made in Japan!  Then Korea and Taiwan. Those countries have come pretty far. 

Personally, i would love to be able to shop only at the mom and pop stores and yes, there are some small hardware and home goods stores still left here.  Unfortunately, I cannot afford to shop at the Ace hardware or corner butcher all the time.  When I can buy a box of Kelloggs or a bag of cat food for two dollars cheaper each, there is no choice in my world. There  is one thing that Walmart does better than anyone else I can think of, they hire some people that will not be hired anywhere else.  They should be applauded for at least that. You would have to believe that if Walmart goes too far and does not stock what people need or want, someone will fill the void.


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## jlg2x (Feb 12, 2009)

JimB said:


> They probably have the Valentine's candy for 2 reasons. They actually ordered it months ago and it sells very quickly in a short period of time so their cash investment in the merchandise comes back quickly. They will then be able to invest in other merchnadise (hopefully).


 
And because Valentine's Day is Saturday?:tongue:


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## sbell111 (Feb 13, 2009)

Gary Max said:


> I have only ever meet one person that likes buying  junk from China. ...


When we were in Beijing last August, I bought an awesome jade horse that now sits here in my office.  I liked that purchase.


GBusardo said:


> Personally, i would love to be able to shop only at the mom and pop stores ...


Not me.  I don't want to spend my life driving from store to store.  I'd rather walk into one store, get everything that I need to buy, and be on my way.


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## Rifleman1776 (Feb 13, 2009)

Gary Max said:


> I have only ever meet one person that likes buying  junk from China.
> The sad part is any store you shop at is full of items made in China.
> The biggie
> I need to find somewhere else to buy Epoxy.



Gary, I honestly do not see where you have a legitimate complaint about anything. It is your right to not like something, with or without a reason.
But, to bash a business because they don't carry your favorite product is silly.
You have a computer. You can use it to buy enough epoxy to fill your house if you wish.
I understand the arguments for/against Wal-Mart. Bottom line is they are the epitome of free enterprise. They do things right for the stock holder and that is what business is all about.
When Wal-Mart built their big new SuperCenter in our town many new businesses sprang up around it that we never had before. Business is booming and all because of Wal-Mart. Even it's competitors are doing better.
The stores that go out of business do so because they never had to compete previously and suddenly find that to survive they must but don't know how.
Wal-Mart employs many people who might not have jobs otherwise, locally and world wide.
Don't like Wally World? That is your right. Go shop elsewhere. But, I betcha you come back and shop there again but just won't admit it.


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## Daniel (Feb 13, 2009)

Brian, try living in Nevada. the only city the world knows about in this state is Las Vegas.
I constantly get people asking me how the weather is in Vegas. I am closer to the weather in Eugene Oregon than I am Las Vegas. think Sacramento or San Francisco. I am only 2-3 hours from those places. Vegas is 8 hours away.


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## Pen Maker (Feb 13, 2009)

So your up there by Ben Cartwright huh? Yever see him these days?


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## wood-of-1kind (Feb 13, 2009)

Pen Maker said:


> So your up there by Ben Cartwright huh? Yever see him these days?





I was sent here from Alpha Centauri to observe the mortals here. 
Interests 
they seem to be constructing sticks to be used in some form of communications. 
Biography 

funny stuff here:tongue: You sure you're from Texas?


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## Pen Maker (Feb 13, 2009)

Only thing I'm certain about on this here website is that EVERYBODY is whacked, except for you and ME.... NOW I'M WONDERING BOUT YOU WOOD-OF-1KIND 8o)


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## Daniel (Feb 13, 2009)

I think it was him I saw on a horse the other day. riding right next to the freeway. was hard to tell as i passed at 70 M.P.H. though.
In truth sadly they closed the Ponderosa Ranch several years ago. It was a great place to go spend a saturday afternoon. that and the real Virginia City.


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## TellicoTurning (Feb 13, 2009)

I spent my career in the transportation industry.  A few years back there was an article in one of the transportation magazines about the warehouse and distribution system that Wal-Mart uses.. it's quite innovative and keeps their inventory moving.  There isn't much warehousing done at the local level.. the distribution center sends out a truck load to each store on a regular basis, and includes items that the local stores have indicated are better sellers, or their clientele purchases.. you can actually find stuff in one store that another doesn't carry because their local clientele doesn't call for it... they gear their inventory to the customer base... and to some extent their pricing also reflects the same basis.. things may be cheaper in one store that has a lower customer income base, whereas in another area prices are higher because the customer base incomes are higher... an example here in east TN, we have two stores that are only about 25 miles apart.. the store in Madisonville (closest to us) has a lower income customer base and some prices are lower than the Maryville store which has a somewhat higher customer income base.  Also we find things in Maryville that aren't carried in Madisonville.. 

Also if you remember back in the '80's .. When Sam Walton was still alive, their advertisements all shouted......"We buy American"..... in 1985-1987 I worked for a company in Houston that did customs clearance on imported goods... one of our top customers was Wal-Mart.. We cleared container after container of goods from all over the world destined to Wal-Mart.

Along with frozen orange juice concentrate from Brazil destined to two or three of the big "Florida" orange juice concortiums, Palm oil from Malaysia to Proctor and Gamble ..


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## Pen Maker (Feb 13, 2009)

If he was by himself.... that might have been the Lone Ranger...


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## Daniel (Feb 13, 2009)

Can't be sure, But I will tell you it was a "Real" Cowboy. We do still have them as the cattle here are still free range on public land. We have a lot of the leather skins that still live out in the sage brush. We also have the Basque Sheep Hearders as well. They have a whole system of communicating that involves carvings in the aspen trees. there is an effort going on to preserve diseased and dying trees because they are basically a library on the history of the Basque. They harvest the trunks and store them. now they are finding that the bark is decentegrating with age so they are looking for a way to preserve it and stop the decay. I actually mentiond stabalization to someone up there. they took the idea seriously. I know they are considering it but there are a few problems involved in stabalizing an entire tree trunk.


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## Pen Maker (Feb 13, 2009)

Interesting, You should stop sometime an show them OUR little wax trick !!! Those CITY BOYS


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## bitshird (Feb 13, 2009)

jimbob91577 said:


> Not trying to defend Wallyworld here, but think practical for a second:
> 
> If I wanted to buy a TV, Computer, etc. that was made in America (All parts, etc.) where would I do that and how much would I expect to pay?
> 
> ...



There is currently 0ver 800,000 square feet of factories in my county that were used to manufacture clothing, sitting empty these were clothes manufacturing companies that relocated to China.



sbell111 said:


> Last time I noticed, our pen parts were not made in Cleveland.


We couldn't afford them, even Cross has nearly all but their prototypes made in Rhode Island.



Daniel said:


> Brian, try living in Nevada. the only city the world knows about in this state is Las Vegas.
> I constantly get people asking me how the weather is in Vegas. I am closer to the weather in Eugene Oregon than I am Las Vegas. think Sacramento or San Francisco. I am only 2-3 hours from those places. Vegas is 8 hours away.


Daniel you should have tried being raised in Las Vegas in the mid 50s to the 70s. wasn't exactly a kid friendly town until they built the Circus Circus.



Daniel said:


> Can't be sure, But I will tell you it was a "Real" Cowboy. We do still have them as the cattle here are still free range on public land. We have a lot of the leather skins that still live out in the sage brush. We also have the Basque Sheep Hearders as well. They have a whole system of communicating that involves carvings in the aspen trees. there is an effort going on to preserve diseased and dying trees because they are basically a library on the history of the Basque. They harvest the trunks and store them. now they are finding that the bark is decentegrating with age so they are looking for a way to preserve it and stop the decay. I actually mentiond stabalization to someone up there. they took the idea seriously. I know they are considering it but there are a few problems involved in stabalizing an entire tree trunk.[/QUOTE
> The great basin has produced a few cowboys in it's day you ever go up into the Ruby Mtns,. how bout over to Elko or Ely.
> 
> Back about 20 years ago I was employed as a Civil Engineering Technician in Dallas we did the testing for most of the Wal-Mart bulk distribution centers, I was on 9 projects from Oklahoma to Statesboro Georgia, their construction times were 2/3rds of other projects that size weather be damned. I've seen guys get fined 50.00 for peeing on the ground, you might have been 1/2 mile from a porta potty, Currently our armed services distribution system is based on Wal-Maret and Fedex technology, so they have contributed something. I hate them but since they have forced the closing of 80% of the manufacturing jobs in my area along with most Mom and Pop stores, I get down on my Knees and pray to the Local Piggly Wiggly, and fortunately Kroger opened a store 5 miles further than Wally World, we get all of our food supplies from those two, But for hard items, like Office supplies, clothes, and electronics it's either Wallys or the flea market or we have alot of Bale stores, for slightly used clothing. Sounds kind of sick, but on a fixed income and my wife working as a fast food store Mgr. our options are limited.
> ...


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## Rifleman1776 (Feb 14, 2009)

Need to add, I also had trouble finding the Devcon epoxy at my local Wal-Mart. Later I found a different, no-name off brand, hanging more in the automotive department than hardware. It costs less than Devcon and, near as I can tell, functions the same.
I am with almost everyone else in wishing more products were made in American. But, they aren't. That's a fact. One would almost have to go naked or wear animal skins to dress in only all American made clothes. I wore a shirt this week for the first time that was given to me for Christmas. It was given by one of our wealthier relatives and, I'm sure, was quite costly. Has a very ritzy label name. Guess where it was made? answer: India.
I know I've piped in several times here. But, really, the thread is pointless. Wal-Mart exists, you have a right to like it or not like it, to shop there or not shop there. That part of America is still free choice.


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## hunter-27 (Feb 14, 2009)

Well now, no takers on my challenge to PM me to discuss a certain couple of "not quite so accurate" statements so either you did actual research and dicovered what I was hinting at or you were just shooting off to begin with.  Either way, Frank, you nailed it with this statement:                "I know I've piped in several times here. But, really, the thread is pointless. Wal-Mart exists, you have a right to like it or not like it, to shop there or not shop there. That part of America is still free choice."


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## Daniel (Feb 14, 2009)

I am not trying to be heartless here and say that change is not hard. It is very hard on those directly impacted. But when I here about the factories that have closed etc. I immediately think about how devastated the horse buggie Industry is today. (compare to car manufacturing). And nobody is concerned at all. This is not ment to be funny at all. Just because we are not aware of the impact today does not mean that the invention of the automobile was not huge on the scale of putting people out of work in tis country. her is just a short list of industrys that went into the tank from jsut this one change.
Buggie manufacturing. Keep in mind that making making buggies employed far more people than Auto manufacturing ever has or ever could.
Lumber industry workers since the wood for buggies where no longer needed.
Horse ranchers and hands. entire industry wiped out.
Black smiths.  nearly non existent today.
farrier Businesses.
Feed and tack stores. even in a state well known for horses and cowboys, there are only three feed stores for a city of nearly 500,000 people.
stable industry.
Street maintenance crews where cut to nearly nothing in comparison to pre auto levels.
Vetrenarians went out of business in droves. funny but many became Pharmacists.
Horse trainers.

Industries die and for those  impacted directly it is painful. but they do die. and trying to hold onto every piece of dead wood in our society will only lead to it being even more painful. I speak from personal experience. I grew up farming. I left it when I was 16 because it is a dead industry. let it die. if it is not worth the money it will make for Americans. then let the Chinese toil for the meager wages. it is worth it to them. I moved away and make a good living. And yes I did loose a business to do it. by the time I was 16 I had 3 separate agricultural ventures going and still could not make a decent profit. I also share cropped over 120 acres of land. still could not make money. it is dead and the truth is people do not want to pay for it. So buy food from China and oh by the way hope it is not poisoned in some way. it is cheaper. much cheaper than I would produce it for you.
It's called growth and it really is just that. I no longer work 16 hours a day doing some of the most back breaking labor I have ever done to earn less than $2000 in one year. I have a very easy job that pays more than 20 times that much and I only work 8 hours a day. feels like progress to me.


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## Seer (Feb 14, 2009)

Free choice what a concept.  When the big box stores come in and sell the cheap S*&T from the far east and most of it is imho the ones who ended up losing are those mom and pop family stores that sold an identical product made in the USA with quality for a little more than what wally wolrd sold an identical item made with cheap labor and even cheaper materials just to save a dime it is the mom and pop stores that suffer and even close.  We buy the cheaper stuff and end up buying it over and over because it is useless crap imho just to save a dime when we could have spent a little more got a good quality piece that will last longer and probably perform better than the junk we had been buying.  Nuff said I could rant forever on this subject.
 My BH and I are going back to basics and making and canning everything we possibly can to insure our food and products are safe.  I carve wooden spoons and other kitchen utensils that will far outlast the basswood and dowel stuff you can get cheap and I mean cheap ( as they are).  There imho are a lot of people who are or may be thinking this way and getting tired of the big box stores and other mass produced cheap garbage that has inundated our markets.  I go to smaller stores when I can to get what we need and I believe in supporting a local economy instead of a corporation.


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## Dario (Feb 14, 2009)

One other thing that is not mentioned is familiarity.  I moved a few times (and I assume a lot of Americans do too) and most of the time, rather than experimenting, I usually go to ones I know.  Guess which ones I encounter anywhere I go.  

Even if I want to support mom and pop stores...I really don't know who or where they are and what they offer.  Even if the greatest restaurant is near me, if I don't know them...I might end up in McDonalds.  This is the sad truth.

It is called "BRANDING" and it works.  This is true whether for groceries, hardware store, restaurant, etc.

These chains are multiplying and flourishing because their business model works.  As Daniel pointed out, we can kick and scream all we want but we cannot stop it.   

A new change is coming...*online shopping* and again it will impact other businesses...including these super store chains.

My friends, note that it will not end here either...


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## OldWrangler (Feb 14, 2009)

Wife and I would rather pay a litle more to keep locals in business. I won't go in a WallyWorld. We have 3 big eyesores of empty buildings they have left behind when they build something bigger. I don't like their business practices, how they treat their employees or their store full of Chinese crap. I can live without them. But I do go to Sam's.....am I nuts or what? Sam's cheesecake is to die for.


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## Dario (Feb 14, 2009)

OldWrangler said:


> I won't go in a WallyWorld. .... . But I do go to Sam's.



Do you know Sam's and Walmart is same company?


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## GaryMadore (Feb 14, 2009)

I have said this a million times before, so once more ought not to hurt: NOTHING is the fault of any of the big-box stores, offshore factories, and/or greedy corporate execs.

We, the consumers, dictate what sells and what does not.

We, the consumers, have demanded lower and lower prices and thus set up a demand for cheap goods. In other words, we created the demand, and it is up to the industry to supply.

Of course, something had to give, and that something is quality, whether that be quality jobs, quality of life, quality goods, quality support, quality service, or quality quality control.

We can rant and rave all we like about <insert favourite hated store/brand here> but the fact is that it's 100% our fault.

Conversely, if the majority of us refused to buy (for example) tools made offshore, manufacturing would, eventually, come back home. Prices would go up (along with, presumably, quality) and we'd all be happy again. Well, for a little while, until someone notices that chuck "A" is selling for a little less than chuck "B" ... And then it would all start again.

It'll never happen, though, because there's no way in hell that the majority of people would ever consider paying more in exchange for quality, just like there's no way in hell the majority of people would ever give up driving in order to force the price of gas down (corallary: we'd sure prop up the buggy industry, eh Daniel?).

So, most people will pay little and get crap and be happy. Others will pay little for crap and complain about it. Still others, like us, will bemoan the fact that decent tools are disproportionately expensive. And (and this shouldn't be news to anyone) that ain't gonna change any time soon.

Er, IMHO, of course....

Cheers!

Gary


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## Billman (Feb 14, 2009)

GaryMadore said:


> NOTHING is the fault of any of the big-box stores, offshore factories, and/or greedy corporate execs.
> 
> but the fact is that it's 100% our fault.


I don't usually participate in this kind of thread in on here, and I'll probably regret it... But here goes.

Gary, I don't know if I'd agree with that. At least not 100%. :biggrin: 

While it is _largely_ our fault most are not educated consumers, it is impossible to know every detail about every retailer. And when a large retailer uses business practices that the average consumer is unaware of that dramatically reduce their costs of goods over their competitors, that is something the consumer can not be held 100% responsible for.

Larger corporations willfully attempt to squash negative press and actively promote their point of view (even if it will have a negative impact on the community... As long as they make more profit).  That is not the fault of the consumer who is only seeking stretch their shrinking dollar as far as possible in these ever increasing difficult times.

Seeking the cheapest price is basic human nature (do you know anyone who *brags* about paying more for the exact same item beyond supporting a specific retailer? And if you do, what do you go away thinking about them?) we are taught it from day one, cheaper is better, and corporations know this and exploit it. That is why there are laws to protect against the most basic concepts of this (bait and switch, for example).  To help protect the people who for whatever reason can not educate themselves about underhanded business practices in this ever distracting world we live in.

As to the validity of this thread. I don't think it's pointless at all. I think it serves a very useful purpose of educating others who read it.


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## Gary Max (Feb 14, 2009)

And this all started because I said Wally World quit selling epoxy and reduced thier inventory by a 1/3.
Guess we need to pass out some of the little blue pills????????


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## Pen Maker (Feb 14, 2009)

I heard they were going to discontinue Little Debbie's Snak Cakes...... gotta  R   U   N


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## GaryMadore (Feb 14, 2009)

Gary Max said:


> And this all started because I said Wally World quit selling epoxy and reduced thier inventory by a 1/3.
> Guess we need to pass out some of the little blue pills????????



Oooooooooooooooooh: Blue ones!

Yes, please 

Cheers!

Gary


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## GaryMadore (Feb 14, 2009)

Pen Maker said:


> I heard they were going to discontinue Little Debbie's Snak Cakes...... gotta  R   U   N



Oh NO! Pick me up a couple of skids too, please!

Cheers

Gary


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## jack barnes (Feb 14, 2009)

Local bussiness and manufaturing job loss is because of UNIONS and TAXES, where else is wall mart to buy their goods. That is why China wins and we lost.

Jack


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## babyblues (Feb 14, 2009)

hunter-27 said:


> Well now, no takers on my challenge to PM me to discuss a certain couple of "not quite so accurate" statements so either you did actual research and dicovered what I was hinting at or you were just shooting off to begin with.  Either way, Frank, you nailed it with this statement:                "I know I've piped in several times here. But, really, the thread is pointless. Wal-Mart exists, you have a right to like it or not like it, to shop there or not shop there. That part of America is still free choice."



I didn't respond to your "challenge" because I haven't been on here in a few days.  I probably used the wrong terminology as a reference, but my description of what Wal-Mart does was correct.  I'd be interested to know where you get your information about how WAL-MART in particular does its business to contradict what I said because I have actually been inside their corporate world headquarters in Bentonville, AR and talked to someone in their corporate tax department face to face.  Unless you have it on better authority than that, I don't want to hear about it.

Whew!!!  Geez, if those blue pills Gary Max was offering are Vicodin, maybe some of us SHOULD take a few.  I'll take a dozen, lol.


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## Pen Maker (Feb 14, 2009)

Cancel my order too.


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## GaryMadore (Feb 14, 2009)

babyblues said:


> Geez, if those blue pills Gary Max was offering are Vicodin, maybe some of us SHOULD take a few.



Vicodin AIN'T BLUE!

Er, I mean, um, that's what I heard.... 

Cheers!

Gary


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## NewLondon88 (Feb 14, 2009)

babyblues said:


> IGeez, if those blue pills Gary Max was offering are Vicodin, maybe some of us SHOULD take a few.



They're Vicodin???

Um .. never mind .. please cancel my order.. :tongue:


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## Gary Max (Feb 14, 2009)

Lets argue over what the little white pills are---hint they have the #10 on the side---


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## Dario (Feb 14, 2009)

Gary Max said:


> Lets argue over what the little white pills are---hint they have the #10 on the side---



Doesn't the number vary depending on the mg? :biggrin:


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## Gary Max (Feb 14, 2009)

I guess if you bought them at wally world it might-----


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## Dario (Feb 14, 2009)

Gary Max said:


> I guess if you bought them at wally world it might-----



They come in 10, 5 & 2 mg...seems like you're getting the max dose...lucky you LOL :biggrin:


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## Gary Max (Feb 14, 2009)

Give the man a prize for know his drugs---we have a winner.

Now what can we fight over?????????


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## Dario (Feb 14, 2009)

My brother is a chemist and was the QC manager of the biggest drug manufacturer in the Philippines for decades...manufacturing for; Pfizer, Abbott, Smith Kline Beecham, Pharma, Novartis, Scherring Plough, Glaxo, Astra Seneca, Merck, Bristol-Myers, etc.

When people talk about "generic" medicines, I actually have some inside information "advantage".


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## Pen Maker (Feb 14, 2009)

And....


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## Pen Maker (Feb 14, 2009)

don't tell us they spit in the generics


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## Dario (Feb 14, 2009)

Pen Maker said:


> don't tell us they spit in the generics



Nope but bottom line...different specs...different results.  Different manufacturer...different quality.  

Usually, cheaper production means short cuts, less QC, lower quality raw material, etc, etc.

Example that most might relate with is a (generic) CIGAR PEN.  We can all produce one but of different; workmanship, kit origin, plating, blank, finish, etc.  But will all qualify as a generic cigar pen.


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## Pen Maker (Feb 14, 2009)

so we have to double up on the dosage? or no


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## TellicoTurning (Feb 14, 2009)

Gary Max said:


> And this all started because I said Wally World quit selling epoxy and reduced thier inventory by a 1/3.
> Guess we need to pass out some of the little blue pills????????



Are those the ones made with "Fix-a-Flat" and "Miracle grow"???:biggrin::biggrin:


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## Pen Maker (Feb 14, 2009)

> and "Miracle grow"???:biggrin::biggrin:


 
where you think the BLUE comes from ?


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## babyblues (Feb 14, 2009)

Do the little blue pills make things "stand" out to you?


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