# Help Making Closed-End Pens



## Rolandranch (Feb 28, 2017)

I'd like to take the next step in penturning and want to start making some closed-end pens. Eventually, I would also like to make some kitless pens but thought I'd start with closed-end first. Since I know nothing of making closed-end pens other than a few IAP articles I have read, I'll need a bit of direction.

Here's my first question:
What special tools, chucks, mandrels, or attachments do I need to get started and where is the best place to get them? Would PSI's closed-end pen mandrels work for this?

Once I have everything I need to get started, I'll have more questions. 

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance!


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## magpens (Feb 28, 2017)

You probably know this - PSI sells some closed-end kits. . I have tried one of them, the Majestic Jnr. . It's OK but the instructions have some significant errors which I have pointed out to PSI but they didn't publish my review of the kit which contained the details.

I have a thread on SOYP showing the pen I made. Pictures below and here's the link to the thread:

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f13/first-closed-end-pen-psi-kit-majestic-jr-139213/

I bought the PSI Big Grabber mandrel but did not use it.

I found that I can make closed-end pens on my metal-working lathe without such a mandrel.

I drill on the lathe, of course, and used a little creativity in finding ways to hold the pieces in the 3-jaw or 4-jaw chuck. . I think I may have used drill bits as mandrels for some operations ... can't totally remember.

There is really not much of a challenge in making a closed-end, and I would think you could go straight to a kitless if you have the tap and die you need. . If you are just experimenting, the taps/dies you can get at Harbor Freight or Grizzly or similar toolstores will do the job, for example the 10mm diam x 1mm pitch, or 12mm x 1.5mm, which are fairly commonly available. . But if you want to do things more professionally you will want to get the (much more expensive) multi-start tap/die set with finer pitch.


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## ed4copies (Feb 28, 2017)

HI Seth,

PM me your email address and I will send you a pdf of the "closed end" demo I gave at MPG a couple years ago.

It will be updated some for the MPG demo I will be giving this year.  NO special tools, just ordinary common sense solutions.

Ed


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## its_virgil (Feb 28, 2017)

Check out the closed end pen articles on my website: Wooden Pens: Buy Handmade unique custom rattlesnake wood pens gifts fountain pen exotic wood from Red River Pens
Do a good turn daily!
Don


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## Skie_M (Feb 28, 2017)

You could get the Big Grabber mandrel for closed end turning from PSI ...

Or you could look up how to make and use a "pin chuck" for the same type of operation.

Once you have either of those, you're pretty much set, as you have all the other tools and accessories you should need already.


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## bmachin (Feb 28, 2017)

You might consider purchasing a copy of Richard Kleinhenz" book "The Pen Turner's Bible".
Lots of good stuff from slimlines through full on kitless in "sort of" a progression.  Richard is a fine pen turner and a fine writer.  I considered it $20 well spent.

https://www.amazon.com/Pen-Turners-...=1488329701&sr=8-1&keywords=richard+kleinhenz

Bill


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## Rolandranch (Feb 28, 2017)

_magpens_


> You probably know this - PSI sells some closed-end kits. . I have tried one of them, the Majestic Jnr. . It's OK but the instructions have some significant errors which I have pointed out to PSI but they didn't publish my review of the kit which contained the details...



Thank you for sharing. I have not tried PSI's closed-end kits yet. I figured I could make one with the kits I already have. I've already order PSI's mandrel and will see how that works. Thank you.

_ed4copies_


> HI Seth,
> PM me your email address and I will send you a pdf of the "closed end" demo I gave at MPG a couple years ago.
> 
> It will be updated some for the MPG demo I will be giving this year. NO special tools, just ordinary common sense solutions.
> Ed



PM sent. Thank you very much.

_its_virgil_


> Check out the closed end pen articles on my website: Wooden Pens: Buy Handmade unique custom rattlesnake wood pens gifts fountain pen exotic wood from Red River Pens
> Do a good turn daily!
> Don



Thank you. I have already read over your article...it is VERY helpful and I will probably be looking back at it in more depth as I start making one. There are a lot of other articles that I had not seen before on your page that I will be looking into. Thanks.

_Skie_M_


> You could get the Big Grabber mandrel for closed end turning from PSI ...
> 
> Or you could look up how to make and use a "pin chuck" for the same type of operation.
> 
> Once you have either of those, you're pretty much set, as you have all the other tools and accessories you should need already.



I've already ordered PSI's Big Grabber mandrel and it's on its way. I'll look into the pin chuck as well. Thank you!

_bmachin_


> You might consider purchasing a copy of Richard Kleinhenz" book "The Pen Turner's Bible".
> Lots of good stuff from slimlines through full on kitless in "sort of" a progression. Richard is a fine pen turner and a fine writer. I considered it $20 well spent.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Pen-Turners-B...hard+kleinhenz
> ...



Thank you. Sounds like a good book. I'll look into that.


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## mark james (Feb 28, 2017)

An element for the process:  

For a pin chuck, I have taken my Harbor Freight Transfer Punch Set Punches & Punch Sets and ground (bench grinder) down a 2" flat section.  Then using any appropriate nail (ground to size), I have a pin chuck.

The HF set will satisfy pretty much every dimension you will need, as well as still functioning as a transfer set.  For me - NO COST!


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## Rolandranch (Feb 28, 2017)

mark james said:


> An element for the process:
> 
> For a pin chuck, I have taken my Harbor Freight Transfer Punch Set Punches & Punch Sets and ground (bench grinder) down a 2" flat section.  Then using any appropriate nail (ground to size), I have a pin chuck.
> 
> The HF set will satisfy pretty much every dimension you will need, as well as still functioning as a transfer set.  For me - NO COST!


Thank you. I'll try that out.


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## magpens (Feb 28, 2017)

Mark, how deep do you grind ... I know that depends on the size of the nail, which it seems you grind "to size" also; so please tell me both dimensions ... depth of grind on punch, and diameter of nail.  Thanks




mark james said:


> An element for the process:
> 
> For a pin chuck, I have taken my Harbor Freight Transfer Punch Set Punches & Punch Sets and ground (bench grinder) down a 2" flat section.  Then using any appropriate nail (ground to size), I have a pin chuck.
> 
> The HF set will satisfy pretty much every dimension you will need, as well as still functioning as a transfer set.  For me - NO COST!


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## Mr Vic (Mar 1, 2017)

magpens said:


> Mark, how deep do you grind ... I know that depends on the size of the nail, which it seems you grind "to size" also; so please tell me both dimensions ... depth of grind on punch, and diameter of nail.  Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
I could be wrong but I'm thinking he grinds the notch into the punch to a depth equal to the diameter of the nail he's using. Then he grinds the nail to the length i.e. 2"


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## Skeleton2014 (Mar 1, 2017)

Really good info, especially on the homemade pin chuck!
One of the goals I've had the past 6-8 months is moving on to kitless. Was wondering if someone was going to do a group buy for the multi-start taps/dies??? Definitely want to get in on that. Does anyone know who they order from?
Thanks, Jeff


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## magpens (Mar 1, 2017)

Past orders have been from Tapco.  I would like in on group buy also, if there is to be one, please.




Skeleton2014 said:


> Really good info, especially on the homemade pin chuck!
> One of the goals I've had the past 6-8 months is moving on to kitless. Was wondering if someone was going to do a group buy for the multi-start taps/dies??? Definitely want to get in on that. Does anyone know who they order from?
> Thanks, Jeff


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## Skie_M (Mar 1, 2017)

Mr Vic said:


> I could be wrong but I'm thinking he grinds the notch into the punch to a depth equal to the diameter of the nail he's using. Then he grinds the nail to the length i.e. 2"



Should be just about right, yup ... but it doesn't need to be 2 inches long.  In fact, it just needs to be shorter than the notch.  As the "pin" rolls in the notch up against the inside of the blank, it gets pinched between the notch and the blank and binds the blank so that it can't move any more in that direction.  It has to be a notch rather than just a flat on the end of the pin chuck (can be any piece of round metal stock), so that the pin is captured and you cannot pull the blank off the pin chuck.  Also, if the project is spinning at high speed and your lathe tool makes contact in a way that puts a pulling pressure on the project, it will come off the pin chuck very fast if it's not in a proper notch.

Make extra pins ... they are small, very easy to lose.

To remove the blank/barrel/project from the pin chuck, you turn your project the "wrong" way and it becomes loose ... just pull it straight off, with your free hand under the pin chuck to catch the pin as it falls... you're very unlikely to see it just sitting there on top of the notch, as it would have to be perfectly level.

Many people just remove their project, pin chuck and all, and carefully remove pin and chuck from their project over a towel on the workbench, so as not to lose their pin.


If your project becomes loose during turning (may have had a catch), just re-seat your project fully on the pin chuck and turn it the proper way to pinch the pin again.

Here's a quick youtube video on making your own pin chuck...

[yt]Odu1cT3AwUE[/yt]


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## Pierre--- (Mar 1, 2017)

I make most of my closed end pens with pin chucks. I make them in wood, one for each diametrer, so easy to make for a wood turner! It works well and costs nothing. 
100_6462.jpg


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## Skie_M (Mar 1, 2017)

I'm gonna make a pin chuck myself .... tried out my PSI Big Grabber and still not 100% happy with it .... I get a good deal of wobble in the blank unless I bring my live center into play, and then what's the point? lol ...


I have a nice pile of 1/4" aluminum rod here and a 3-jaw chuck .... time to have fun! 







It came out rough, but I never intended to sell it or anything ... was just a proof of concept to see if I could inlay a spiral of veneer that would go from one end to the other around the pen once.  Details are in another thread.

Inlay Question <--- that thread, in fact.


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## RobS (Mar 1, 2017)

Closed end cuban cigar pen, pin chuck made my Rick Herrell
http://www.penturners.org/forum/f30/closed-end-cuban-cigar-pen-custom-pin-chuck-142311/

You will need a Beall Chuck, which is required if you plan on moving up to kitless.

Have fun.
RobS


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## Rolandranch (Mar 1, 2017)

RobS said:


> Closed end cuban cigar pen, pin chuck made my Rick Herrell
> http://www.penturners.org/forum/f30/closed-end-cuban-cigar-pen-custom-pin-chuck-142311/
> 
> You will need a Beall Chuck, which is required if you plan on moving up to kitless.
> ...


Thanks for this info. Is this the Beall Chuck you are talking about? And which size is ideal for kitless? Thank you.

https://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/101/1194/Beall-Collet-Chuck


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## Edward Cypher (Mar 1, 2017)

2nd Rick Herrell's pin chucks and collet chuck.  I bought the psi one and then a complete set of collets er32's on ebay both metric and sae for less than the beall.  Now don't get me wrong the beall chuck is a great tool.  I just needed the collets for many other things and beall only comes with 5 I believe.


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## RobS (Mar 1, 2017)

Yes that beal chuck. You buy the one that fits your lathe threads. 

You will also need collets. I bought this set. 
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B017WQPG8A/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## Cmiles1985 (Mar 1, 2017)

Rolandranch said:


> RobS said:
> 
> 
> > Closed end cuban cigar pen, pin chuck made my Rick Herrell
> ...





The Beall chuck comes with five collets that leave a lot of "gaps" so to speak. For around $60, one can purchase a set of metric ER32 collets on EBay. The metric collets compress down to the next smaller size leaving no gaps. A collet chuck is very handy for many purposes other than pens!


Sent from my iPhone using Penturners.org mobile app


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## Rolandranch (Mar 4, 2017)

Thank you all for your help. I have a much better idea of how it's done and what I need and have already started on one. I'll be experimenting around with closed-end pens AND with kitless pens. When I come up with something good, I'll post it in the SOYP forum.


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