# Trimmer head defect Update 5/18/08



## Daniel (May 17, 2008)

Update 5/18/08
First I realize that not everyone has even recieved there order. of 91 orders i have gotten replies one one type or anouther from about 15 people. that is 16.5% of the entire buy so far. With that precentage in mind, there have been 11 defective heads reported. The list of defects has gotten larger though so please keep reading.
possible defects that I know of at this time include.
1. set screw will not tighten enough to hold pilot shaft.
attempts have been made to tap out this hole with most if not all resulting in a damaged tap. 

2. set screw hole is drilled/tapped to large and set screw is sloppy.
may be corrected by replacing the supplied set screw with a #10-32 x 1/4" Set Screw. thanks glass scratcher.

3. hole for pilot shaft is drilled off center in the head.

with the above precentage I am now expecting the number of defective heads of heads to be in the range of 50 to 60. Oddly this is just about the number of heads they where short in being able to fill the order in the first place.

I want to publically thank Morecowbells, rjwolf3, Jarheaded, Monty, Paul in OKC,and Betty44720. I will not make a big speech about why I am thanking these 6 people. each of them will know. I will say that each of these have, in there own way, shown the spirit that makes this the greatest group on the internet. Non of them are strangers here at  the I.A.P. but as always they have demonstrated that friendship and generosity are held in higher value here than anything else. When you notice this around here remember that these 6 are among those who's hands hold that banner up. At there own personal expense they draw the line that community comes before all else on these forums. Thank you each and every one. You are the heart and soul of the I.A.P. 

Concerning the latest (Just completed)  bulk buy for Rizheng pen mills/ Barrell trimmers.

I have recieved two e-mails so far concerning cutter heads that the set screw hole does not run completely through the head. one attempt has been made to drill and tap the hole and resulted in a broken tap. please check your heads and e-mail me if you have any defective ones and how many. I will do my best have them replaced.


----------



## PaulDoug (May 17, 2008)

Thanks for the heads up.  Mine look fine.


----------



## jdoug5170 (May 17, 2008)

Daniel...is this to say that we should have received our stuff from that buy, by now?  I have yet to get anything from you. It's ok, still have not figured out how to get that drill press head lifted up from the floor and placed on top of the post from my wheelchair! Why did I not have more children?!!!

Doug


----------



## Jim15 (May 17, 2008)

Daniel, mine have arrived and they appear to be fine. Thanks for doing the buy.


----------



## ed4copies (May 17, 2008)

> _Originally posted by jdoug5170_
> 
> Daniel...is this to say that we should have received our stuff from that buy, by now?  I have yet to get anything from you. It's ok, still have not figured out how to get that drill press head lifted up from the floor and placed on top of the post from my wheelchair! Why did I not have more children?!!!
> 
> Doug




Doug,

PLEASE BE CAREFUL --- MY FATHER LOST THE TIP OF ONE FINGER DOING THIS!!!!!  Rig up a block and tackle and lift with ropes holding the weight while you align, do NOT put your fingers under the head until it is safely on the post!!!!!


----------



## jdoug5170 (May 17, 2008)

Thanks Ed. I have put together more of this model than I care to remember...nor do I want to remember that I sold cheap 3 of them in early '07 thinking I would not need anymore! But, that is why I'm waiting for help before tackling the rest of this assembly...maybe the sheriffs department that does training on the property will have a couple of strong, young men!

Doug


----------



## jdoug5170 (May 17, 2008)

> _Originally posted by jdoug5170_
> 
> Daniel...is this to say that we should have received our stuff from that buy, by now?  I have yet to get anything from you. It's ok, still have not figured out how to get that drill press head lifted up from the floor and placed on top of the post from my wheelchair! Why did I not have more children?!!!
> 
> Doug



Update Daniel...mail arrived today with package from you. Thank you so much for taking on this group buy task...looked like a lot of work.

Doug


----------



## Geo in Winnipeg (May 17, 2008)

I don't have mine yet but I have to contend with the wonderful service from Canada Customs and Canada Post I'll let you know when they get here and if they're OK.


----------



## maxwell_smart007 (May 17, 2008)

Don't you mean IF they get there, George?? 

(J/K - never had a problem NOT receiving something, but they often have giant bills attached!) 

Andrew


----------



## Daniel (May 18, 2008)

George, I can tell you that all canadian order where mailed on thursday and generally you will not see it for at least a week. So for everyone that has not yet gotten there package my request still applies once you do get it.


----------



## thewishman (May 18, 2008)

I'll be happy with my 4 good heads, unless the manufacturer pays for ALL of the costs and your time for replacing the 2 bad heads. I am pleased to benefit from the savings you provided. Thanks, again.

Chris


----------



## Glass Scratcher (May 18, 2008)

The set screw wobble may be corrected by replacing the supplied set screw with a #10-32 x 1/4" Set Screw.  That is what I have done for all but the 2 that the threads are not tapped all the way through.


----------



## hunter-27 (May 18, 2008)

Found another one not tapped correctly, got lucky before, not so much on this one, well it was a learning experience.  Sometimes "STUFF" happens.


----------



## Draken (May 18, 2008)

Just checked everything I received.  All of the kits look fine, the problems seem to be with the extra heads.  I ordered three extra heads, two have sloppy holes, but I tested them and they seem able to secure enough to the pilot shafts to where I'm not worried about them.  The third head didn't have the hole tapped deep enough, and when the set screw was put in, the hex part of it was stripped, so I can't even remove the set screw. [B)]  Please add one more to your list.  I'll follow thewishman's lead, if the company pays for all costs associated with replacing the head, great, if not, Rizheng won't be seeing any more of my business.

Thanks for running the group buy Daniel, and sorry for the headaches it has caused you due to these defects.


----------



## n7blw (May 19, 2008)

Received my three cutter heads Saturday. All are fine. Thanks for all the work you put into this group buy.


----------



## Dan_F (May 19, 2008)

Daniel---One of mine is fine, the threads on the other head stripped when I tried to tighten it down. That was inside the head itself, the threads on the setscrew were ok.

Dan


----------



## sbell111 (May 19, 2008)

I have been emailing with Rizheng regarding this issue; basically making sure that this is going to be settled before we go forward with the new group buy.  I just received an email that stated that they sent Daniel a shipment of 70 replacement mills today.

Hopefully, this will all be resolved quickly.


----------



## oldcaptainrusty (May 19, 2008)

Daniel I received my order today. 2 out of the 5 cutter heads (1 with a set and 4 extra) have issues. 1 does not have the threads all the way through the allen screw hole, I tried to finish it off with my Hanson tap but it screwed the tap up. The other cutter head has an egg shaped hole for the shaft. My thoughts are the same as thewishman's. If we can get these replaced without any furhter cost to you great. If not than I will be satisfied with what I have. You have still saved me some money in the long run. I appreciate your efforts with this project, I know these things are a monumental task. Thanks


----------



## Rusty914 (May 19, 2008)

Good evening, Sir.

I got my package this weekend.  Thank you for the forthrightness to post and say there were problems.  If you hadn't, I probably would have just put the pieces in my work cabinet.

Unfortunately, I have one of the heads that doesnt appear to be tapped all the way through.  

When (if) you find a way to resolve this...drop a note.  

-Rusty


----------



## Orgtech (May 20, 2008)

Had 3 heads. All three have sloppy screw threading. One is not tapped through. Thanks


----------



## Chasper (May 20, 2008)

Daniel,
I opened the full set that included the shafts, everything was perfect, no problems.  I haven't checked the extra cutters and don't intend to check them until I need them.  If they are bad I'll throw them away.  In either case I'm happy.  The cost of buying one full set would have been more than I paid you for a full set plus three extra cutter heads.  I got more than my money worth.  Thanks for arranging this group buy.  I'm sorry to see you have to go through all of this extra work.  I appreciate and am grateful for your initiative in arranging this buy and you don't need to be concerned about my satisfaction, no matter what.


----------



## Daniel (May 20, 2008)

one quick note. please check that the set screw is not the problem if it seems loose. I have had one report that the set screw was the problem not the head. I know it is an added hassle but at least that can be fixed for pennies.

Update: in order to expedite a solution I took a shot in the dark estimate at just how many heads will be defective. I have 70 replacement heads being sent at no cost to me from Rizheng. Many of you that have ordered multiple heads have been willing to just take the loss. some of you only had one or two heads and really need the bad ones replaced. I will be making a list of people and contacting you asap. I still have 44 unread e-mails and will process this as fast as I can. I have very limited time at my computer the next few days. I barely have time to write this. anyway I am on it and a solution is in the works.


----------



## Daniel (May 20, 2008)

I would just like to say. This is not the first group buy I have organized and I don't do them as if I live in a perfect world. I organize them to sustain problems and so far the only problem I have is getting replacements and knowing who to send them to. other expenses are not an issue or I would have listed that as a problem as well. I am not alone in this, this is a huge community and there are those that are lending themselves to a solution. Steve has offered to mail any replacement heads to people in his group buy making any of those heads a one time mailing cost to me. others have offered to find effective repairs and do them at no cost. still others have offered to help absorb any cost. So there is just a bit more going on than would meet the eye, and so far it looks like the problem will be solved. the only real burden on me is trying to notify all 91 members and collect a list of people that need replacements. My concerns are not so much the reputation of Rizheng. It is the reputation of the group buys. This is a golden opportunity to demonstrate that group buys can still work even in the worst case scenario.


----------



## RHossack (May 20, 2008)

Mine showed up yesterday ... the threads were ok.

Thanks Daniel


----------



## splinter99 (May 20, 2008)

Hello
Recieved mine yesterday..one haed is fine, the other is defective


----------



## greenmtnguy (May 21, 2008)

Daniel,
I ordered 8 heads and a set. One head the setscrew won't turn all of the way in. I don't think it's worth your trouble and expense to correct this. I can live with it. On a side note, I ordered some clearance pen kits from- China. Black enamel. Terrible quality, the finish chips pressing them together and the clip has to be filed for the finial to fit through. Thanks for doing this buy. 
Alton


----------



## Daniel (May 21, 2008)

So far I have 35 defective heads reported. My estimate to Rixheng was between 50 and 60 expected (they shipped 70). I don't think my math is that far off. I suspect the message is not reaching everyone. please try and spread the news so that there are not those setting out there thinking nothing can be done. I am making a list for Steven so he can tell me who he will be mailing packages to. I would really like to have a complete list.
Thank you to everyone that has said "forget about it" but the truth is it is more work for me to keep those sorted out. so everyone is getting replacements. As for any postage I have to pay. I have additional heads that I will sell to recover the costs. this is part of the reason Rizheng sent more heads than I asked for. They also want to make sure no one gets defective heads again.


----------



## Daniel (May 21, 2008)

I have anouther issue I would like feedback and suggestions on. I received an e-mail that commented that mailing the cutter heads without the edges protected is a bad idea.
I do not know of any pen mills from anyone that have the edges protected for shipping. Of course this does not mean a bulk buy cannot go above and beyond. any feedback on this would be appreciated as well as suggestions on how to go about coating or protecting the cutting edges of the heads and pilots. keep in mind that this buy alone involved 350 heads so something that is quick and easy would be in order. I also have limited space. a fast drying something i could dip them in sounds like the best idea but i consistantly get shown up in the idea department by this group. The heads also get shipped to me pretty much dumped in a large box so I'm not sure how much damage they have by the time they reach me. it may make the whole thing a mute point.


----------



## sbell111 (May 21, 2008)

I really don't believe that the cutter heads are so fragile that protecting them for a small part of the trip from China to the end user is necessary.  After all, pen kits (except for the ultra-expensive ones) get no protection.  In fact, I wouldn't worry at all about the heads getting damaged, I'd worry about the heads damaging other items packed with them, like pen kits.  Quickly wrapping the heads in a piece of paper should satisfy this need.


----------



## ericw95 (May 21, 2008)

Screw seems good, holds shaft and yes I did swap out the extra heads with those already on shafts.  Did not check whether hole was centered so I am good.


----------



## 1nfinity (May 22, 2008)

Daniel,
Thanks for the update regarding what to look for regarding the cutter heads. Of the seven cutter heads I received, one has threads that do not extend all of the way through the set screw hole and three others have the issue where the pilot shaft hole is off center.  If these are replaceable, let me know and I can ship them back. Furthermore, if replaced, I'll gladly compensate you for shipping and the extra effort on your part. Another alternative for shipping would be to send them to SBELL11 (per his thoughful offer) since I participated in his latest CUSA group buy.  Either way, I'll compensate you for the extra S&H.
-- Terry


----------



## BruceK (May 22, 2008)

Daniel, I had no problems with my order of 1 mill set and 3 extra heads.  Thanks


----------



## Daniel (May 23, 2008)

I received the replacement heads last night. I will go through them individually to insure that we waste no more time mailing bad heads around.
DO NOT return any heads to me. if you can fix them then good for you. but I am sending replacements anyway. As for cost. I started the CA Bulk Buy that Mannie now runs a long time ago. I do tons of these group buys and know that they run approx 10 - 17% loss or related expenses. (toner cartridges don't seem like much until you've printed a thousand labels) So this cost is factored into prices. the group buy is able to handle this cost so the postage has already been paid. Thanks for all the offers but I tend to organize a group buy to survive indefinitely. Mannie has shown for years that the system works.


----------



## Gruntster (May 24, 2008)

Just checked my package. Of the 5 heads, I have one the is not fully tapped. DO NOT send me a replacement if it costs you a single dime, I'd rather just toss this one than cost you any more time, money and effort. Thanks for running this buy


----------



## LumberYard (May 25, 2008)

Daniel,
I am a little late to the party[B)] just found this thread and ran out to check my cutterheads. 2 out of the 7 I ordered have the tapping issue. 
Sounds like you can absorb the costs but I would happily pay you for the shipping to get me the replacements. Even if I don't get the replacements I wouldn't be too hurt.

THANKS again for organizing the group buy.


----------



## Daniel (May 26, 2008)

Hey folks, I'm writin from a brand spanky new lap top. it is sort of climbsy and I miss the mouse so bad it will be added int he next couple of hours. and it is 9 pm. otherwise it is really strange to be able to see so much on the screen at one time. I've been living in a virtical and horizantal scrolling world for a long time. I can see the page from edge to edge now. anyway there are two computers in the house now so I will get mor net time. As for the replacement heads. i hope to stert sending them out on tues. so far all have checked out and are defect free.


----------



## Daniel (May 26, 2008)

I have not had any more defective heads reported in about a day and a half so I am going to start packing up replacements and sending them out. in all there are about 50 bad heads among 30 people. not nearly as bad as it could have been with 350 heads ordered and 91 people involved.
I know that many of you don't think it is worth the cost to replace them but I am going to anyway. it is much easier for me to just go down the list and send the heads than it is to go back and find who really needs replacements and who doesn't. the cost in total will be around 30 to 40 dollars and really is not that big of a deal. 
Thanks to everyone for being so understanding about all this. I have not gotten any nasty type e-mail at all. not even talking bad about Rizheng. 
for now just keep watching the mail.


----------



## Daniel (Jun 8, 2008)

Just an update. replacements mailed out last friday. sorry it took so long. i was trapped under an avalanche of real life.
I learned something though. it only cost 5 cents more to mail to canada first class. at least for a 2 oz. package. the paper work alone is worth more than 5 cents. Anyway all these heads have been pre inspected and I have to bring this to a close at some point. so this is it. I still have an issue of one lost order and that will be resolved thanks to steves group buy. I don't think I'll be doing anouther one fo these for a while. I still have loads of walnut to try and get sold.


----------



## Monty (Jun 8, 2008)

I hesitate to bring this up, but has anyone other than me noticed that some of the shafts are not straight? I just got a chance to actually use the new set. The cutter head works great, but I noticed that there was a slight wobble. When I rolled the shaft on my TS table, I noticed that the shaft does not turn true.


----------



## Daniel (Jun 9, 2008)

mannie, there is going to be some run out due to the set screw being only on one side fo the shaft. but how much run out are you talking about?


----------



## Monty (Jun 9, 2008)

Daniel, the small shaft for the slims is OK. That being so, I can make sleeves for the larger tubes. It's the shaft for these larger tubes I'm referring to. It's not run out that's the problem. I can place the shaft on my flat TS or BS table and when rolled across the table, I can see a noticeable wobble in the part of the shaft that you put in the chuck. 
As I said, there is a workable solution in making sleeves for the 7mm shaft. I just wanted to see if any one else had this problem.


----------



## thewishman (Jun 9, 2008)

Got my replacement heads today, THANKS!

Chris


----------



## denaucoin (Jun 9, 2008)

I got my replacement today, if you need shipping money, please email me.  I do not want you to loose out because of their mistake.  I appreciate your courtesy.


----------



## hunter-27 (Jun 9, 2008)

got mine today, thanks.


----------



## oldcaptainrusty (Jun 9, 2008)

Received my replacement heads today. thanks for all your work.


----------



## markgum (Jun 10, 2008)

Got my replacement today.  THANKS for coordinating this and all the follow through.


----------



## Dan_F (Jun 10, 2008)

Mine came too, thanks!

Dan


----------



## rincewind03060 (Jun 10, 2008)

Received my replacement. Thanks


----------



## Monty (Jun 10, 2008)

Got mine yesterday also. Thanks Daniel.


----------



## Jarheaded (Jun 10, 2008)

Daniel,
 I just received 2 cutterheads. While I appreciate you doing that, it was unnecessary. It does speak a lot of your character though, you are a good man. I hope your family knows how lucky they are to have you. It is good to know that there are still people like you in this world. 
Thanks for everything, Johnnie


----------



## Draken (Jun 10, 2008)

Received one replacement cutter head.  Not going to worry about the other two.  Thanks for doing this, I'm sure it has been quite the headache.

Cheers


----------



## loglugger (Jun 10, 2008)

Daniel, got the cutters today.
Thank You 
Bob


----------



## Daniel (Jun 11, 2008)

Johnnie, thanks. And yes my family does appreciate me as I do them. 24 years of marriage does a ton of good for the character. Draken, sorry if I missed something I only had you listed a having one bad head. I sort of had messages coming at me from all directions so I wouldn't be suprised if I did. Thanks to everyone for being so great about all this. I Know that group buys would not work if it was not for the great people that make up the penturning groups. Trust is a huge part of it. and the members of this group have come to trust the people that do group buys to a huge extent. risking 20 or 30 dollars is one thing. but I have had people place orders that are in the hundreds of dollars. This is the only place I know of on the net that you can send off you money and really expect to get what you paid for. at least when there is no profit involved. Thank you all for being the most wonderful people I know out there. Bulk buys are one way I like to say "You all are worth it". And you really are you are all the cream of society in my mind.
sure it's a pain at times, but it is also a learning experience. and with each buy that goes like this one. the next will be that much better.


----------



## alamocdc (Jun 11, 2008)

Hhmmm, I just caught this. I guess I'd better check mine out tonight to see if both heads are okay. I'll PM you if there is a problem, Daniel. Thanks!


----------

