# PITH Damage Control



## mbroberg (Jul 23, 2010)

PITH, an event that I envisioned as being fun has taken a severe hit.  First, I inserted an unpopular rule that seems to be turning many people away.  Then a post was made that was meant to drum up some more participants, but has the exact opposite effect.  I want everyone to know that I knew nothing of that post before actually reading it myself.  I understood and appreciate what Butch attempted to do, but wish he had gone about it a different way.  Butch has owned up to his mistake and offered a complete apology.

As to the rule, forget about it.  Consider it a suggestion.  Make and swap any kind, style or color of pen you want.  I will amend the opening post of the PITH Sign-up thread shortly.

I apologize for any part I might have played in causing the current mood.  The PITH will go on, I hope you choose to be a part of it.
Mike


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## Seer (Jul 23, 2010)

I am still in and hope everyone else is also no matter what we all enjoy sharing our creations and IMHO any pen I recieve I consider great.  Anyways you all stick around and lets have a good PITH.


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## jimm1 (Jul 23, 2010)

Amen. What started out as an incredible thing seemed to have been turned into a gripe session. 
As I stated in another post. Can't we all just get along.
Remember the ole "One bad apple" thing? 
This is a great way to make friendships, not belittle those who contribute.
Just keep this positive. This IS a GREAT THING.
Geez!


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## ed4copies (Jul 23, 2010)

If you thought it would be fun and you had the time and ability to participate yesterday, then you sure should NOT let a "pithin match" change your mind!!!!

To all who have signed up---nothing has changed--ENJOY the PITH.  For those who have NOT signed up, realize that Butch was only attempting to make the PITH larger and, in his eyes, BETTER!!!!

Sometimes bigger is not necessary to be BETTER!!!!

Have fun guys, that's what we are here for---

Remember if we were all in a bar together, that comment would have been "laughed off" in 2 minutes, we'd all have had another beer and be 5 topics removed from that conversation----only on the internet can the same dog get kicked "ad nauseum".

Please don't refrain from the PITH, it is a GREAT experience.


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## penmaker1967 (Jul 23, 2010)

i am new to the pith but i thought it would be fun and still think so


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## soligen (Jul 23, 2010)

To anyone who decided not to particpate based on the other thread.

As stated, Butch apologized admitted his regret at the way he approached it. Even if you are upset at him and cant accept his apology, please dont deprive the rest of us of your participation. I respect all the help you guys have given me and the others on this forum, but please dont let your feeling about one, or a few, members affect how you particpate and interact with the rest of us.

I implore all of you to put this behind you, and if you were going to participate before "that thread", please do so. Most of the people participating haven't even posted to it, so why let it affect your behavior toward all of them?

To me, its like saying "I dont like your neighbor, so I'm not comming over to drink a beer with you like I was previously planning". Please dont fall into this trap. We very much would like you to come over for a "beer".


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## snyiper (Jul 23, 2010)

Mike for the record I think the color thing was a great idea for those that can and lifting it for those that cant. With all the levels of craftsmen here along with what ever funding they have it is great to have the option. Not everyone can afford a special color blank of may not even be able to find it so I think lifting and leaving it a guideline is a awesome Idea...lots of people sure got Pithed off this go round. I hope no feelings stay hurt over a good hearted attempt to draw more people to this great event!!!


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## Brooks803 (Jul 23, 2010)

color theme or not I'm still excited about this years pith. last pith I was such a noob that the pen I made was maybe my 10th and now I have so much more to contribute as far as my skill range. I won't get into that other thread bc we make our own decisions in the end but I do hope that any ill feelings on either side will subside and we can stay a close community. Mike, I think you are doing a good job of handling this years pith and I'm sure Landon is sitting there thanking all thats mighty that this situation didn't happen to him last year :tongue:. Keep it up, I look forward to having a great pith experience.


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## jttheclockman (Jul 23, 2010)

mbroberg said:


> PITH, an event that I envisioned as being fun has taken a severe hit. First, I inserted an unpopular rule that seems to be turning many people away. Then a post was made that was meant to drum up some more participants, but has the exact opposite effect. I want everyone to know that I knew nothing of that post before actually reading it myself. I understood and appreciate what Butch attempted to do, but wish he had gone about it a different way. Butch has owned up to his mistake and offered a complete apology.
> 
> As to the rule, forget about it. Consider it a suggestion. Make and swap any kind, style or color of pen you want. I will amend the opening post of the PITH Sign-up thread shortly.
> 
> ...


 

Mike

First of all thanks for running the contest or exchange if that is what it is called. Second my posting about the color thing was not in anyway a knock on your rules or your intentions of this years exchange. It was a statement as to why I chose not to enter because it seemed members were being called out. Sorry to see you change your rules. Good luck


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## RAdams (Jul 23, 2010)

I also apologize for everything i said on that thread. I have also asked to be removed from the PITH, so all you people that hate me can go ahead and join up without fear of having to deal with trading to me!


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## Phunky_2003 (Jul 23, 2010)

I'd trade with you Ron.  I read the post by Butch too,  I didn't respond to it because I had thought things were going in a bad direction.  I try to navigate away from that sort of thing of late cause I get lots of pms informing me of my wrongful thinking.  LOL.  I signed up for the pith and will stay signed up.  But I'd also be willing to do a trade with you.


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## phillywood (Jul 23, 2010)

Phunky_2003 said:


> I'd trade with you Ron. I read the post by Butch too, I didn't respond to it because I had thought things were going in a bad direction. I try to navigate away from that sort of thing of late cause I get lots of pms informing me of my wrongful thinking. LOL. I signed up for the pith and will stay signed up. But I'd also be willing to do a trade with you.


james i can even bring youone in person.


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## terryf (Jul 24, 2010)

Bill of Rights and all that come to mind.

Freedom of choice, freedom of association etc

So we change the rules to suit the few.

Mike I dont agree with you changing the rules.
I think the thread by Butch should have been long closed.
There are lessons to be learnt here.

I choose to stick to the original rules of the event I chose to associate myself with.

I also respect anyone else's decision not to participate in the event.

Thanks for the effort Mike and I dont think any apologies on your part where or are necessary!!


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## GoodTurns (Jul 24, 2010)

Mike,
surely by now you understand that no good deed goes unpunished!  ManyThanks to you for running this little festival of sharing!  I have already had more fun with this PITH than any other, the "PNITH" thread was a great lead up and that's how I will look at it.  I also am FOR the rule/suggestion/guidance that the flag colors be used...it gives me a place to start rather than wandering around my shop looking for an idea.  Good on you for dealing with everything thrown in so far!


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## workinforwood (Jul 24, 2010)

terryf said:


> Bill of Rights and all that come to mind.
> 
> Freedom of choice, freedom of association etc
> 
> ...



Oh yea...ditto!  Stand firm on your decisions too, because not all will agree with no matter what you do, but to make changes after the fact will show weakness and the dogs will just pile on higher.  You try an idea, see how it pans out and next time you have experience from the past to guide you.


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## OLDMAN5050 (Jul 24, 2010)

everone should be thankful that we have this opportunity to do this each year, all should be forgiven for anything that has offended another. I will swap with mr. Adams if he so desire, and no one hates you. A lot of us post things that might upset someone and let's not be re-directed to not want to participare in this each year.


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## traderdon55 (Jul 24, 2010)

I have posted things people did not agree with and probably will do so again. I have also read a lot of things that I did not like what someone had to say. Things like that happen when you have a group this large and diversified. It would be great if everyone could just ignore what they don't like and participate in what they want to or not participate if they don't want to regardless what anyone else thinks. This is just my opinion and for a change I am going to take my own advice. I have not participated in past exchanges because I was always afraid of getting paired up with one of the pros and them not getting something that was up to their standards. I am taking my own advice and entering this year and my partner will get my best pen I can make and I will not worry about whether I am paired with a begining turner or a pro because I know we will both be making the best pen we can. I hope every one will take this attitude and make this the largest and best pith ever.


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## RAdams (Jul 24, 2010)

You know, After some srious thought on this subject, I think i am going to sign back up (if i can). Last year would have been my first PITH trade and i missed it because i didnt know what it was till it was too late. To be brutally honest about it, I don't want someone elses lack of comprehension to get in the way of my fun!


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## Crickett (Jul 24, 2010)

RAdams said:


> You know, After some srious thought on this subject, I think i am going to sign back up (if i can). Last year would have been my first PITH trade and i missed it because i didnt know what it was till it was too late. To be brutally honest about it, I don't want someone elses lack of comprehension to get in the way of my fun!



Glad you decided to stay in ... really, what are the odds you'll be paired with someone that "hates" you??  "Hate" is such a terrible word.  

Anyway ... lets have fun with this!!!  I'm looking forward to The PITH with or without the change in rules.


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## moke (Jul 24, 2010)

Mike ---
I just joined PITH ...and really looking forward to it. I was not offended by Butch or anyone. We are all adults...well mostly. That zeal and honesty is why I joined this site. 

I simply did not join because it I am from the USA...well kinda... Iowa, and because it was three colors, that to me, meant segmenting. Lately being a rookie, I have had some segmented blanks with more air time than the Wright Bros....
Thanks for your efforts!!!
Mike AKA Moke


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## snyiper (Jul 24, 2010)

Mike there are other ways to get colors with out segmenting, You being in photography will be better at some applications than others....Pm me if you want to know how!!


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## jeff (Jul 24, 2010)

mbroberg said:


> PITH, an event that I envisioned as being fun has taken a severe hit.  First, I inserted an unpopular rule that seems to be turning many people away.  Then a post was made that was meant to drum up some more participants, but has the exact opposite effect.  I want everyone to know that I knew nothing of that post before actually reading it myself.  I understood and appreciate what Butch attempted to do, but wish he had gone about it a different way.  Butch has owned up to his mistake and offered a complete apology.
> 
> As to the rule, forget about it.  Consider it a suggestion.  Make and swap any kind, style or color of pen you want.  I will amend the opening post of the PITH Sign-up thread shortly.
> 
> ...



First, thanks to Mike for running this PITH, and for thoughtfully handling a bumpy start. I can't wait to see all the photos. I have not spoken to Mike about this idea, but I'm going to ask him to conduct a random drawing of everyone who successfully completes their swap, and the winner is going to get a $50 gift certificate to CSUSA (or the woodworking joint of their choosing.) Mike, consider that a polite order!

Now, a suggestion... I was going to post this in the thread Butch started, but Curtis removed that one at Butch's request, so I'm going to say my piece here. 

Butch's heart was in the right place, but his method was flawed. He was trying to do the right thing and improve participation in the PITH. He was trying to improve our community. With a few changes in his wording, and a little different angle to his message, the result would have been vastly different, probably the exact effect he intended - more participation.

From time to time I see similar posts - people making an effort to improve a situation which from their perspective needs improving. The key phrase there is "their perspective". Most of these sort of threads go into the weeds because the original poster didn't heed the law of unintended consequences. Many times these well-intentioned efforts are met with a strong response to either do something differently, leave things the way they are, or argue the points and logic in the original post. 

Let me make this suggestion to all our members who want to either make some big improvement or suggestion regarding the IAP as a whole, or to some activity we're running, such as the PITH. Give me a shout and let's discuss your ideas. In 99% of cases, I bet I can give you a few suggestions which will make your post go over a lot more smoothly. I don't have all the answers, but I do have a somewhat unique perspective about what goes over well and what doesn't at penturners.org.  You're always welcome to post without my input, but success rule #1 is to use all the help you can get, and maybe I can provide a little. If you don't want to run something by me, Curtis, or any of the other managers can give you suggestions too.

Thanks for listening!


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## phillywood (Jul 27, 2010)

jeff said:


> First, thanks to Mike for running this PITH, and for thoughtfully handling a bumpy start. I can't wait to see all the photos. I have not spoken to Mike about this idea, but I'm going to ask him to conduct a random drawing of everyone who successfully completes their swap, and the winner is going to get a $50 gift certificate to CSUSA (or the woodworking joint of their choosing.) Mike, consider that a polite order!
> 
> Now, a suggestion... I was going to post this in the thread Butch started, but Curtis removed that one at Butch's request, so I'm going to say my piece here.
> 
> ...


Jeff, I can appreciate your point and I like to say in defense of the thread that was removed that it didn't mean any disrespect to anyone just that it took a twist of understanding of the point Butch was trying to make. I have noticed that some of the members who joined in earlier years have resentment towards some of the newer coming members. I have been attacked by them in my threads for no apparent reasons other than receiving these nasty PM's despising that fact I am a newcomer. It is unfortunate that some of the older (signed) members feel to pick arguments with majority of the posts here lately. In my opinion that seems to be the trend here lately, which I am sure is preventing some older or newer members refrain from participation.


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## witz1976 (Jul 27, 2010)

phillywood said:


> Jeff, I can appreciate your point and I like to say in defense of the thread that was removed that it didn't mean any disrespect to anyone just that it took a twist of understanding of the point Butch was trying to make. I have noticed that some of the members who joined in earlier years have resentment towards some of the newer coming members. I have been attacked by them in my threads for no apparent reasons other than receiving these nasty PM's despising that fact I am a newcomer. It is unfortunate that some of the older (signed) members feel to pick arguments with majority of the posts here lately. In my opinion that seems to be the trend here lately, which I am sure is preventing some older or newer members refrain from participation.



Wow I am sorry to hear that you feel like you have been attacked.  I have been on this site for about a year now, and I have nothing but good things to say about most people.  I have learned a great deal from the the older members and from the newer members. For instance I just posted a pic of a pen that I had help from 3 older members.  

I think people just need to relax and understand that everyone has their own way of communicating.  Some can unintentionally sound ruff and mean, while others can sound elegant.  Take the bad with a grain of salt and don't let it bother you, unless you feel it is a true mean spirited attack, then let the mods deal with it.
Now go turn and have a :beer: (root :beer: for those who don't go for the full octane brew :biggrin


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## maxman400 (Jul 27, 2010)

"PITH" on it LETS GO, Mike we are just waiting on you buddy, Thanks for doing a super job so far.


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## bitshird (Jul 27, 2010)

Is it July 31st yet?? Is it past 12:30?? Are we there yet?? I have to PITH !!!


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## Dalecamino (Jul 27, 2010)

bitshird said:


> Is it July 31st yet?? Is it past 12:30?? Are we there yet?? I have to PITH !!!


Funny,Funny man :biggrin:


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## EBorraga (Jul 28, 2010)

Looks like PITH may hit 200 people. Pretty good turnout so far.


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## ROOKIETURNER (Jul 28, 2010)

Sorry fellows, it was threads like Butch's that turns me off. People need to be happy with what they have and not be judgmental of others.

Someone wrote in a great book that we should be slow to speak, swift to hear and slow to anger...maybe we all should execise this and the world would be a much better place.


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## RAdams (Jul 28, 2010)

ROOKIETURNER said:


> Sorry fellows, it was threads like Butch's that turns me off. People need to be happy with what they have and not be judgmental of others.
> 
> Someone wrote in a great book that we should be slow to speak, swift to hear and slow to anger...maybe we all should execise this and the world would be a much better place.


 



Wouldn't that be boring though?:biggrin:


I still agree with the idea behind what Butch did. I think that everyone here (including, and sometimes ESPECIALLY me) needs to grow thicker skin, and quit trying to bust each other down on personal interpretations of what has been typed. 

If someone else had written that very same thread, My reaction likely would have been drastically different, But i have had a few PM's with Butch, and have followed his work quite closely so i feel comfortable to say that I half ass understand his sense of humor, and passion for what he does. 

I also understand where the people that are/ were mad about that thread are coming from. Like i said, If certain other members would have posted that thread, I would have been the first in line to complain. It obviously was a bad call to post the "Drill Sargaent" technique for recruiting to the PITH Army. 


It would be rediculous to think that you could have so many people gathered on a forum to discuss something they are all incredibly passionate about and not expect arguments, and straight up fights sometimes, and that is disregarding the fact that some of the people here make money just by being here and promoting their products and services. Now you have a huge group gathered to discuss a very dear subject to their hearts, and you have money in the game as well. Who is making it, Who is spending it, and Who is stealing it... It is no wonder I have spent so many hours on the phone with IAP friends talking about "behind the scenes drama".  

I for one, miss the "Behind the scenes Jokes". Like the joke between Todd, and Gary's wife that I was somehow pulled into the middle of, that became a running jokefest back and forth with the practical jokes. 

IAP is an amazing place, and i love it here. The freedom to say what we think is a precious commodity, even on the internet, and we have that freedom here, As Butch recently demonstrated:biggrin:! I would rather the members of IAP learn that arguments and fights do and will happen. More importantly than "trying to get along" would be to learn to "not hold a grudge". We all have something to teach each other, If not penmaking, then about life in general. 

Sorry for the giant rant... But we all know that Butch's thread upset or bothered a huge list of people. We have discussed it for way too long i think. Live and let live. Forgive and forget. Turn the other cheek. love thy brother as thy love thyself, lend me some sugar, for I am you neighbor, who took the chicken off the plate, and put it in the fridge? Shaggy 2 Dope did!:biggrin::tongue::biggrin:


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## Mickey (Jul 28, 2010)

I just signed up for PITH and then ran across this thread. WHY do I always miss out on all the commotion.  Now I'll be wondering for the next 5 minutes what went on? (no answer necessary)


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## ed4copies (Jul 28, 2010)

ROOKIETURNER said:


> Sorry fellows, it was threads like Butch's that turns me off. People need to be happy with what they have and not be judgmental of others.
> 
> Someone wrote in a great book that we should be slow to speak, swift to hear and slow to anger...maybe we all should execise this and the world would be a much better place.



Just add: "Quick to forgive and try to forget" and you have a winner.

You also can then enter the PITH!!


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## GaryMGg (Jul 28, 2010)

RAdams said:


> You know, After some srious thought on this subject, I think i am going to sign back up (if i can). Last year would have been my first PITH trade and i missed it because i didnt know what it was till it was too late. To be brutally honest about it, I don't want someone elses lack of comprehension to get in the way of my fun!


 
Hey Ron,
If I get paired with you I'll make sure to hate you just so you can say, "See, I told ya!" :tongue: :biggrin::biggrin:

ps: for those who lack internet reading comprehension and smilie-101, that's sarcasm, irony, and friendly banter. Any attempt to read anything serious into this reply should be dismissed! :wink:


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## LizardSpit (Jul 28, 2010)

No offense taken.  I AM STILL IN!!!!!


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## ed4copies (Jul 28, 2010)

*MADE 200!!! 
Congrats, IAP PITHERS!!!!*​


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## EBorraga (Jul 28, 2010)

Think we can hit 225 or even 250???


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## ed4copies (Jul 28, 2010)

EBorraga said:


> Think we can hit 225 or even 250???




*What????  You think 200 is just a small PITH in the ocean?????*



(Yes, there's a million of em just waiting!!)


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## snyiper (Jul 28, 2010)

Ed that was bad you PITHed that one away!!!


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## RAdams (Jul 28, 2010)

GaryMGg said:


> Hey Ron,
> If I get paired with you I'll make sure to hate you just so you can say, "See, I told ya!" :tongue: :biggrin::biggrin:
> 
> ps: for those who lack internet reading comprehension and smilie-101, that's sarcasm, irony, and friendly banter. Any attempt to read anything serious into this reply should be dismissed! :wink:


 


SUHWEET!


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