# Alternate to micromesh for arcylics?



## brailsmt (Feb 3, 2019)

I'm not looking for a shortcut, I'm looking for something more durable than the micromesh I've been using.  I've worn out two sets already in just 2 months of pen making.  My standard procedure is to sand 150 -> 240 -> 320 -> 400 -> 600, then hit micromesh up to 12000.  After that I use Meguiar's PlastX to really bring out an awesome mirror finish.  Since there is some crossover between automotive and pen turning when it comes to bringing out shine, has any tried car polishes instead of micromesh?  I'm just tired of wearing through the center of the micromesh pad in one grit, and then being forced to buy a whole new set.  While the cost isn't prohibitive, I'd much prefer to use some sort of paste polish that goes on like the PlastX.  Any other alternatives from outside the automotive world?


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## Edgar (Feb 3, 2019)

I use the micromesh sheets & cut them into 1" x 3" strips rather than the pads. Much cheaper that way and I like the ability to "feel" the sanding better. 



You might need to work on your turning technique a little if you have to start sanding acrylics at 150. I usually start at 400 or 600 & sometimes I manage to do a good enough job that I can start with micromesh right away.


The trick for me is high speed (2500-3000), sharp tools and light cuts. I use an R2 carbide tool and once I have the blank almost turned to size, I cant the tool about 30 deg or so and make several very light passes to smooth the blank as much as possible. It becomes more of a skew cut than a scraping cut when the tool is canted that way.


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## bmachin (Feb 3, 2019)

I know of at least one thread from a few years back discussing this. Basically If I remember correctly, the writer sanded through 600 or 800 then went to liquid auto finishing abrasives.

You might want to consider going to Abralon rather than Micromesh. You can get it up to 4000 grit. and it's foam backed and waterproof. Remember too, that micro mesh's numbering system is strictly its own. Micromesh 12,000 is, I believe, about P8,000 or thereabouts.

Bill


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## magpens (Feb 3, 2019)

I do not use micromesh.

I sand 320 up to 2000 grit (which may be overkill ... 1000 grit may be good enough), then use Meguiar's automotive (I am going to say heavy duty) scratch remover (a whitish thick liquid out of a blue plastic bottle).

Next I use Novus 3 followed by Novus 2.

I finish up with Meguiar's PlastX. . I'm very happy with the shiny results for the usual AA acrylics, Rhino plastics, and the like. . Results for Alumilite are less shiny but I think that is just the nature of this material.

 Occasionally, I start the sanding with a coarser grit of 240, particularly if there are some very minor circumferential (some call them radial) cutting marks.

For polishing CA I use the same procedure except that I would definitely start with 240 grit, and often even 180 grit if I have to take off some thickness of CA in places. . The rest would be the same.


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## dogcatcher (Feb 3, 2019)

I used to sand up to 1500 grit, then polish used Tex at Durango's "kicked up a notch" method of buffing.  http://www.penturners.org/forum/f30/buffing-kicked-up-notch-55476/


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## brailsmt (Feb 3, 2019)

magpens said:


> I do not use micromesh.
> 
> I sand 320 up to 2000 grit (which may be overkill ... 1000 grit may be good enough), then use Meguiar's automotive (I am going to say heavy duty) scratch remover (a whitish thick liquid out of a blue plastic bottle).
> 
> ...



Perfect!  Exactly what I was looking for.  I saw this chart at autogeeks and was going to got purchase a few of the items and give them a shot.  Before I did, I wanted to know if I was off my rocker.  It would be great if this ends up working out, then I can use them to keep my dream car shiny and bright too.


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## leehljp (Feb 3, 2019)

Sure, I use automotive polishes at time. 

There are times when I make a pen and the finish just comes out with MM, and I usually put a wax on it.

Then there are the times that I just can't seen to get that shine that I want. At that point, I use other things, usually different polishes. I lived in Japan when I started that and they had lots to choose from. It wasn't hard to find the actual "grit" equivalent, which was in the micron range or .micron meaning .3 micron or so. When I moved back here, I started looking at our polishes here. It sure seems that I had access to more varieties more stores over there, than here for a while. 

There are times that liquid or paste polishes seem to do better than MM or other superfine sanding material. To me, it is a matter of having several options and changing when the standard method doesn't work as well as I want. 

Sometimes, humidity changes, temp changes, CA or other finish just starting to get old, and the normal finish just does not come out like I want. Change methods for a while.

EDIT in: I like that chart above, but one thing I liked overseas is that on all that I bought or looked for, they listed the micron size of the polish or if it had none. BTW, what you use to apply polishes and waxes often have a "grit" equivalent for polishing. For instance, paper towel or paper bags have a "sanding" effect. I don't remember the specs but it was discussed here about 10 years ago or so. I would guess similar to MM 12000 or so.


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## Curly (Feb 3, 2019)

I do the same for CA as plastics. Sand with 320 if I need to, 400, 0000 steel wool and then the 3 Beall buffing wheels.


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## Terredax (Feb 3, 2019)

The best way to get a smooth, reflective finish, is to use buffs and compounds.
It's an investment in equipment and there is a learning curve but, the results are superior, and sanding can usually end at 600 grit. With practice on the lathe, getting a good finish with the tool, sanding can be done with 400 grit just to inspect for flaws, like ridges, and then to the buffing.

JMO. :wink:


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## brailsmt (Feb 3, 2019)

So, I ran to O'Reilly, and picked up 3 bottles of different polish, medium cut, fine cut, and a finisher.  I'm utterly gobsmacked.  I just finished a pen by sanding 320, 400, 600, 800 wet, 1500 wet, 2000 wet.  Then the medium and fine cut polish, the finisher, and PlastX.  Honestly, after the medium cut polish, I couldn't tell a difference with any of the others.  My eyes might be fooling me, but the medium cut even appears to have removed about 95% of the striations which you usually have sand lengthwise between grits to remove.  This is a single pen, so definitely not exhaustive, but I'm wondering if the 1500 and 2000 grits are even needed with this medium cut, and imagine if I got heavy cut.  These are the products I purchased, because it was what O'Reilly's had:

Meguiar's Medium-Cut Cleaner
Meguiar's Fine-Cut Cleaner
Meguiar's Machine Glaze

They worked like a charm.


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## dogcatcher (Feb 3, 2019)

Here is Tex at Durango's buffing method for Kick it Up a Notch.



Texatdurango said:


> If you like your buffing finishes on your CA finished or acrylic pens and are content with the shine they give you then read no further.
> 
> *However if you want to kick the gloss up a notch you might consider trying this.....*
> 
> ...


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## Xel (Feb 3, 2019)

Love automotive compounds for acrylics.  These bottles will last _forever_, no more worrying about getting MM out of order, they're fun to apply, and... they smell good. :biggrin:

I sand to 1000, then 3M Perfect-It Compound 1 does most of the lifting (a heavy according to your chart), follow with 3M Perfect-It Compound 2 (a medium according to this slightly different chart) which removes the rest, Plastx to finish.  Try a heavy cut after your 800 grit, Michael.  I think you'd be pleased.


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## jttheclockman (Feb 3, 2019)

Boy I am not going to touch this one because you have the polishers in your ear and you are listening but will tell you this You absolutely were doing something wrong with the MM pads. First off I never heard anyone ever wearing a hole in any of them. That means you are rubbing too hard. You started sanding with way to low of a grit to begin with. I have pads that I must have turned 25 pens with and they look brand new. They have 2 sides 4 corners on each side and when those wear down cut smaller and start over. But have fun with the polishing system.  Happy turning.


I too should have mentioned I use the MM pads with water as my carrier. When I use the MM sheets for other woodworking projects I use Formbys lemon oil as the carrier.


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## tomas (Feb 3, 2019)

I use the Micro Mesh pads and am on my second set after 5 years. I use them exclusively wet and keep them in a container of water when not in use. If your MM is wearing through, you are probably applying too much dry pressure.

My $.02
Tomas


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## brailsmt (Feb 3, 2019)

jttheclockman said:


> Boy I am not going to touch this one because you have the polishers in your ear and you are listening but will tell you this You absolutely were doing something wrong with the MM pads. First off I never heard anyone ever wearing a hole in any of them. That means you are rubbing too hard. You started sanding with way to low of a grit to begin with. I have pads that I must have turned 25 pens with and they look brand new. They have 2 sides 4 corners on each side and when those wear down cut smaller and start over. But have fun with the polishing system.  Happy turning.



Hah, that's fine.  I was hoping an automotive polish regime would be viable when I posted.  Since I have a very nice car that I detail quite a bit, crossover products, like PlastX, are a great add to my tool chest.  I'm sure I'm using MM wrong, but it's made my carpal tunnel flare up something fierce from the angle and pressure used to hold the foam block, so an alternative is attractive for that reason, too.


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## jttheclockman (Feb 3, 2019)

brailsmt said:


> jttheclockman said:
> 
> 
> > Boy I am not going to touch this one because you have the polishers in your ear and you are listening but will tell you this You absolutely were doing something wrong with the MM pads. First off I never heard anyone ever wearing a hole in any of them. That means you are rubbing too hard. You started sanding with way to low of a grit to begin with. I have pads that I must have turned 25 pens with and they look brand new. They have 2 sides 4 corners on each side and when those wear down cut smaller and start over. But have fun with the polishing system.  Happy turning.
> ...




hey there are many people who go that route and do a great job on finishing with it. I just found the hole thing surprising. Good luck with your new venture. If using a buffing wheel do hold onto to it. We have had those stories here too.:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:


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## Shock me (Feb 4, 2019)

tomas said:


> I use the Micro Mesh pads and am on my second set after 5 years. I use them exclusively wet and keep them in a container of water when not in use. If your MM is wearing through, you are probably applying too much dry pressure.
> 
> My $.02
> Tomas



I do the same, mostly because I like how they perform, but it seems to me like they do deteriorate faster when stored in water. If I think I'm not going to use them for a while, I let them dry. I don't get anywhere near 2 1/2 years out of a set. Rough guess, maybe 60-75 pieces.


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## TonyL (Feb 4, 2019)

The only thing/process that I can think of is buffing (which is what I do). I just don't like wet sanding unless the material is Truestone or M3 This is just a personal preference of mine.


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## jttheclockman (Feb 4, 2019)

TonyL said:


> The only thing/process that I can think of is buffing (which is what I do). I just don't like wet sanding unless the material is Truestone or M3 This is just a personal preference of mine.



Tony They wet sand car paint. Then they buff it. Some people here do both


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## EBorraga (Feb 4, 2019)

TonyL said:


> The only thing/process that I can think of is buffing (which is what I do). I just don't like wet sanding unless the material is Truestone or M3 This is just a personal preference of mine.




Automotive guys wet sand to eliminate orange peel. I've never seen a pen blank develop Orange Peel. But I wet sand all acrylics. I feel it keeps it from overheating. But my .02


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## dogcatcher (Feb 4, 2019)

EBorraga said:


> TonyL said:
> 
> 
> > The only thing/process that I can think of is buffing (which is what I do). I just don't like wet sanding unless the material is Truestone or M3 This is just a personal preference of mine.
> ...



I also wet sand acrylics to keep them from over heating.  I use ATF for the wetting agemt, it doesn;t make a mess like water does.


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## magpens (Feb 4, 2019)

What's ATF ? ... Automatic Transmission Fluid ? ... no mess you say ? . Good to know.


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## More4dan (Feb 4, 2019)

When I use to finish acrylic and inlace acrylester materials on my fixed blade knives, i would sand to 600 grit then off to the buffer. I would buff with a grey medium compound and finish with white fine compound. I would end up with a nice scratch free finish. 

With my pens I sand with 220, 320, wet sand with 500, then wet sand with MM through 12000. Off to the buffer to finish with a scratch free pink compound. Shines like glass. I’m still working on my first half set of MM pads, I cut the originals in half to start. I’ve made and polished about a 150 to 200 pens and seam rippers and a couple of the lower grit pads are almost done. I always use water and sand in both directions alternating grits. 10-15 seconds length ways and 3-5 seconds with it spinning both with light pressure. 


Sent from my iPad using Penturners.org mobile app


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## TonyL (Feb 4, 2019)

I am really winging it here: https://www.amazon.com/Granite-Poli...331570&sr=1-6&keywords=granite+polishing+pads


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## dogcatcher (Feb 4, 2019)

magpens said:


> What's ATF ? ... Automatic Transmission Fluid ? ... no mess you say ? . Good to know.



Yes, ATF is automatic transmission fluid. I should have said not as messy.  I place a few newspapers on the ways, turn the speed to slow, easy clean up.  Forget to turn the speed tp real slow and you will have ATF all over you and the area in front of you.  

I keep my sandpaper strips in order with a clothes pin.  When doing acrylics, I just lay the clothes pin with the sandpaper strips in a plastic bowl with ATF so they are soaked.


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## PenPal (Feb 5, 2019)

I have never used Micro mesh. After I use my Skew on the flat as a scraper I go to Triple EEE then a light crean briefly or Brasso or Auto Cream. Never used wet wet and dry either.

Please find two examples from today with printed circuit board pens.Flawless finish.

Have fun I do.

Peter.


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## More4dan (Feb 5, 2019)

I’m not worthy. (Repeating as he bows before the master)


One day maybe.  That is a perfect finish!


Sent from my iPad using Penturners.org mobile app


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## leehljp (Feb 5, 2019)

PenPal said:


> I have never used Micro mesh. After I use my Skew on the flat as a scraper I go to Triple EEE then a light crean briefly or Brasso or Auto Cream. Never used wet wet and dry either.
> 
> Please find two examples from today with printed circuit board pens.Flawless finish.
> 
> ...



Thanks Peter. I am a slow learner! You just reformed me. I do the same as you -> on my segmented blanks - not putting sandpaper or MM on my segments (just a scrapper) and getting them as smooth as baby's skin. But why I run to SP or MM on CA, I don't know. Just pure old time habit. 

I don't need that. Thanks for the "awakening"!!!


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## KenB259 (Feb 5, 2019)

jttheclockman said:


> Boy I am not going to touch this one because you have the polishers in your ear and you are listening but will tell you this You absolutely were doing something wrong with the MM pads. First off I never heard anyone ever wearing a hole in any of them. That means you are rubbing too hard. You started sanding with way to low of a grit to begin with. I have pads that I must have turned 25 pens with and they look brand new. They have 2 sides 4 corners on each side and when those wear down cut smaller and start over. But have fun with the polishing system.  Happy turning.
> 
> 
> I too should have mentioned I use the MM pads with water as my carrier. When I use the MM sheets for other woodworking projects I use Formbys lemon oil as the carrier.





I agree with all this. I probably have made upwards of 75 pens with one set of MM, and have never worn a hole a in any of them. I too use them wet. 


Sent from my iPhone using Penturners.org mobile app


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## jttheclockman (Feb 5, 2019)

dogcatcher said:


> magpens said:
> 
> 
> > What's ATF ? ... Automatic Transmission Fluid ? ... no mess you say ? . Good to know.
> ...




OK I have to ask because no one else did. Why transmission fluid of all fluids available??? Why not brake fluid or power steering fluid?? Maybe some windshield washer fluid?? Never heard this and if you mentioned it before I never picked up on it.


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## beck3906 (Feb 5, 2019)

Check a site called International Violin for single sheets of Micro Mesh


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## dogcatcher (Feb 5, 2019)

Why, at first I was using a mixture called Ed's Red Bore Cleaner as a drilling fluid for acrylic duck calls.  Then another callmaker said he uses ATF, so the next time I tried it, it worked about the same, so I switched to straight ATF for both drilling and sanding.  Then I found the Internet, and I found out some other callmakers had been doing the same for years.  I know some used and some still use WD40, but this is cheaper. 

I have never used anything else except water, and water always seemed to soak through and cause a rust problem. I only used it on real acrylics, like the stuff from Delvies, not on the cast resins.  

Best part is you can buy the "good" stuff at the dollar store, save a few pennies per quart.  I kept my ATF in a ketchup squeeze bottle like you find in cafes to docter up your fries.  I still use a modified mix of Ed's Red Bore Cleaner mix as my drilling and tapping fluid when working metal, the mix of ATF, mineral spirits.


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## jttheclockman (Feb 6, 2019)

dogcatcher said:


> Why, at first I was using a mixture called Ed's Red Bore Cleaner as a drilling fluid for acrylic duck calls.  Then another callmaker said he uses ATF, so the next time I tried it, it worked about the same, so I switched to straight ATF for both drilling and sanding.  Then I found the Internet, and I found out some other callmakers had been doing the same for years.  I know some used and some still use WD40, but this is cheaper.
> 
> I have never used anything else except water, and water always seemed to soak through and cause a rust problem. I only used it on real acrylics, like the stuff from Delvies, not on the cast resins.
> 
> Best part is you can buy the "good" stuff at the dollar store, save a few pennies per quart.  I kept my ATF in a ketchup squeeze bottle like you find in cafes to docter up your fries.  I still use a modified mix of Ed's Red Bore Cleaner mix as my drilling and tapping fluid when working metal, the mix of ATF, mineral spirits.


 just goes to show you there is still another way to get things done.


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## Bob in SF (Feb 6, 2019)

My 2 cents (= 2.41 Icelandic Krona, .082 Malaysian Ringgits, 120.56 Paraguayan Guarani, 3.55 Sri Lankan Rupees,...):

Dry sand 600, 800
Wet sand MM 1500, 1800, 2400
Novus 3 Plastic Polish
Novus 2 Plastic Polish
Hut Ultra Gloss Plastic Polish
Novus 1 Plastic Polish

= 5 minutes in the universal language of shine.

Happy Wednesday! - Bob


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## moke (Feb 6, 2019)

If you were going through MM....you must have using them dry?  I now buff on a beall buff system and canton wheels......its awesome, but I probably made a hundred pens to set of MM pads.  I did use the bigger ones though  3x4?  
When you wet sand be sure to cover your ways on your lathe though.
Seriously, if you are going to stay in Pen Turning, I would consider buffing....trust me, you'll never go back...for  Acrylic....CA is softer and considerable care should be taken in buffing  ( so I use Poly on the few wood blanks I use)

Sand to 800
Buff on three wheels sometimes two
inspect with 8x loupe for scratches....if it is, repeat buff
McGuiars plastic polish
small amount of Ren Wax.....

10-12 minutes tops


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## jrfuda (Feb 6, 2019)

I sand to 400 and then use a teeny tiny pinch of rottenstone with a little smear of Johnson paste wax - shines like glass and is a really fast method. I used to work through all the micromesh grits, but I hated it and moved onto this new method.


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## Curly (Feb 6, 2019)

jrfuda said:


> I sand to 400 and then use a teeny tiny pinch of rottenstone with a little smear of Johnson paste wax - shines like glass and is a really fast method. I used to work through all the micromesh grits, but I hated it and moved onto this new method.



Welcome to the forum.

So you are basically making your own polishing compound, correct?


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## PenPal (Feb 6, 2019)

jrfuda said:


> I sand to 400 and then use a teeny tiny pinch of rottenstone with a little smear of Johnson paste wax - shines like glass and is a really fast method. I used to work through all the micromesh grits, but I hated it and moved onto this new method.



Very close to the formula of Triple EEE from U Beaut polishes in Australia,ever so economic and useful.

Peter.


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## jrfuda (Feb 7, 2019)

Curly said:


> ...So you are basically making your own polishing compound, correct?


Yes, I can't remember where I got the idea from - either another post here or at AAW - was going for a Triple EEE clone like Peter said.


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## brailsmt (Feb 8, 2019)

I've been using the automotive polishes and i'm loving them.  The medium cut polish alone shines the blanks better than the MM ever did, then I use the fine cut, mirror finish, and PlastX.  I'm sure I will give buffing a shot in the coming months, especially to touch up some previously made pens that didn't work out as shiny as I wanted.  I also have some car parts that could use some buffing, namely the taillights I painted black and "shined" up by sanding to only 2000 grit...


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## Dr_N (Feb 18, 2019)

I've been kicking around the idea of going to novus polishes.  But have some questions.

Do you folks use the novus at high or low speed?

Do you use it in the same manner for CA finishes as you do acrylics?

I see many mentions of novus 3 and novus 2.  Does anyone use novus 1, or is that where most use PlastX.


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## walshjp17 (Feb 18, 2019)

41 posts and no-one mentioned Zona Papers?  These are ultra fine (30 micron to 1 micron) polishing papers made by 3M.  They are specifically designed for acrylics of all types, polyurethane, solid surface composites, fiberglass, aluminum, precious metals, finished wood and other soft materials. They can be used with or without water.

Zona Paper is available on Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/37-948-Polis...r&qid=1550505319&s=gateway&sr=8-1&tag=mh0b-20

To see how well they work, check out David Troutman's videos on FB and YT.


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## magpens (Feb 18, 2019)

Dr_N said:


> I've been kicking around the idea of going to novus polishes.  But have some questions.
> 
> Do you folks use the novus at high or low speed?
> 
> ...




I don't use Novus 1 because my supplier did not stock it when I first bought the other two. . I use PlastX instead.

Same method/manner for both acrylics and CA finishes.

Very low speed and only lengthwise rubbing. . I turn the lathe chuck by hand during this whole polishing process.


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## Dr_N (Feb 18, 2019)

magpens said:


> Dr_N said:
> 
> 
> > I've been kicking around the idea of going to novus polishes.  But have some questions.
> ...


Thanks Mal.  I think I'll order some and give it a try.  I've already got PlastX, so I'll follow your process.


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## Shock me (Feb 18, 2019)

walshjp17 said:


> 41 posts and no-one mentioned Zona Papers?  These are ultra fine (30 micron to 1 micron) polishing papers made by 3M.  They are specifically designed for acrylics of all types, polyurethane, solid surface composites, fiberglass, aluminum, precious metals, finished wood and other soft materials. They can be used with or without water.
> 
> Zona Paper is available on Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/37-948-Polis...r&qid=1550505319&s=gateway&sr=8-1&tag=mh0b-20
> 
> To see how well they work, check out David Troutman's videos on FB and YT.



1 micron being roughly equivalent to 14,000 grit, do you use these in lieu of MM?


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## Curly (Feb 18, 2019)

Novus 1 is a cleaner, not a polish. You would use it on plastics as you would Windex on glass. Novus 2 and 3 are the polishes.


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## Loucurr (Feb 18, 2019)

Zona 37-948 3M Wet/Dry Polishing Paper, 8-1/2-Inch X 11-Inch, Assortment Pack One Each 1, 2, 3, 9, 15, and 30 Micron www.amazon.com/dp/B07MLT6C4L/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_bvZACbD0A738A


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## George883 (Jun 2, 2019)

Any current thoughts, pro or con on using Zona paper?  Thanks


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## leehljp (Jun 2, 2019)

George883 said:


> Any current thoughts, pro or con on using Zona paper?  Thanks


"Shock Me above wrote the same question. Zona paper will be fine and I thought about ordering some. I use the 3M PSA (pressure sensitive adhesive) type plastic/acrylic backing and put strips on plate glass next to my lathe, and swipe my HSS tools on it about once a minute to keep the razor edge. Since most people are moving towards carbide inserts, that use is moot for them.

As to finishing, I have forgotten the correlation between Micro Mesh 3000, 3600, 4000, 6000, 8000, 12,000 and Zona. In the end it will come down to individual preferences and not a huge difference. There are automotive polishes that come is sets that have 5 micron, 3 micron, 1 micron and some with .5 or .3 micron polish. THAT is what does it. However, the stiffness of the backing will determine how well it is for light ovals and straight finishes versus cloth backed non-stiff. I don't know what stiffness the backings on the Zona papers are, but as to the GRIT, there will not be that much difference between equal grits on MM, or Zona or polishes.


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## Woodchipper (Jun 3, 2019)

Anyone  tried dental pumice? What is the grit equivalent to MM or a liquid polish?


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