# chuck collets - standard or metric?



## edman2 (Feb 4, 2009)

Thinking about buying the ER32 collet set from 800watt on Ebay. He has standard and metric sets. Does it make any difference which set I get for doing penturning primarily?


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## Daniel (Feb 4, 2009)

Bottom line no. each collet should hold the largest size that the next smaller collet is made for. so a 13mm collet should squeeze down small enough to hold a 12 mm rod etc.
so any size piece is covered from the larges to the smallest in the collet range.
knowing easily just which collet to use would be a different story. suppose you want to chuck up a 5/8" bolt (which I have had need to do) and have the metric set. which collet woudl you need? so it really depends on what you work with the most SAE or Metric.
One case that works the other way around is the 50 cal bullets I drill all the time. they actually measure 0.510" that extra .01" is a real bugger if I use a 1/2" collet. I recently got saved from this frustration with a metric collet that leaves just enough room for the bullet to slip in and out.


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## edman2 (Feb 4, 2009)

Thank you Daniel. One set is slightly cheaper than the other so I was trying to save a buck!:biggrin:


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## rjwolfe3 (Feb 4, 2009)

How does one find more info on what all you can do with collet chucks?


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## Randy_ (Feb 4, 2009)

Daniel said:


> .....Bottom line no. each collet should hold the largest size that the next smaller collet is made for. so a 13mm collet should squeeze down small enough to hold a 12 mm rod etc.
> so any size piece is covered from the larges to the smallest in the collet range......


 
Sorry; but I am going to have to nit pick here and disagree with Daniel.  If you will look carefully at the list of the Imperial size collets, you will see that a couple of them are skipped.  I guess it is because they are not standard sizes in use today; but I don't know for sure.  I don't remember exactly which ones they were; but I think they were at the smaller end of the range. 
 
The problem is that where there are missing Imperial sizes, there are gaps in the grip range that are more than 1mm wide.  What this means is you will be able to handle all stock that is sized in Imperial units; but there could be some metric sized stock that you could not deal with.  

With metric collets, the grip range is 1mm and the collet sizes are incremented in 1mm steps so there are no gaps in the grip range.

Now that you understand the situation, there are different ways to look at it.  If you expect to use the collets extensively for a wide range of projects, you are probably better off spending a few extra dollars to guarantee you have the complete suite of stock sizes covered.  
 
OTOH, as I remember, the gaps in the grip range of the Imperial set are in the range of sizes that you are likely to need only rarely and probably not at all for turning pens.  Additionally, if you get a piece of stock that won't quite fit any of your Imperial collets, you could always wrap it with a piece of tape or make an insert for a larger collet.  The last time I looked at the 800watt auctions, there was not very much difference between the two sets.  I would be inclined to purchase the metric set; but it would depend upon the price difference.  Do you recall what the price difference was??


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## stevers (Feb 4, 2009)

I have the SAE set from 800watt, the 18 piece. It has done fine for me.
Just my 2cents.


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## Randy_ (Feb 4, 2009)

Freddie:  Thought I would take a few minutes and review the situation since I could not remember the exact details.  I had thought the missing collets were toward the small end of the grip range; but that turns out to be incorrect.
 
The missing sizes in an 18 collet Imperial set are the 13/32", 17/32" and 21/32".  These missing sizes will create gaps in the grip range such that you will probably not be able to grip 10mm, 13mm, or 16mm stock. 
 
Whether this is a limitation you can live with to save a few dollars, will be a decision only you can make.


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## Glass Scratcher (Feb 5, 2009)

Randy,

Not to pick nits, cause I will admit you know much more about this than I do- but if you look at this set:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=360129426841

you pick up the 3/32, 13/32, 17/32, and 21/32 but loose the 5/32, 9/32, 15/32 and 19/32 which are in the set from 800watt.

I haven't used enough of the set from 800watt to know what I am "missing".


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## davinci27 (Feb 5, 2009)

rjwolfe3 said:


> How does one find more info on what all you can do with collet chucks?



There are so many things you can do with these chucks, that its hard to give a list.  I bought mine just to do drilling on the lath, but now that I have it, I've find it on the lath more often than any other attachment I have.  I use it for making center bands, finials, posts, drilling, making jam chucks.  It has opened an entire new world of things I can do.  If you look at this pen, you'll see I drilled, made a post, finial, and centerband all using a collet chuck.

http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=41522


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## rjwolfe3 (Feb 5, 2009)

Thanks Ben, I've been using a scroll chuck (which I still don't know what all I can do with it either) for most of what you mentioned but wasn't sure it it was worth an investment to get the collet chuck.  Although I believe that is what I need to do cartridge pens and bullets so I may be getting one soon.  So 800watt has the collets but where do I get the chuck from?


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## davinci27 (Feb 5, 2009)

I have a scroll chuck as well, but I've found the collet chuck gives me a much truer center point with less effort.  I also don't have to change jaws on my chuck as much.  I bought the PSI collet chuck which includes several collets (http://www.pennstateind.com/store/LCDOWEL.html)  at some point I'm going to buy the full collet set from 800watt, just haven't need it yet.


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## Randy_ (Feb 5, 2009)

Glass Scratcher said:


> .....look at this set:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=360129426841
> 
> you pick up the 3/32, 13/32, 17/32, and 21/32 but loose the 5/32, 9/32, 15/32 and 19/32 which are in the set from 800watt......


 
Charles:  Thanks for that information.  It is good to know that there are other options available.  Unfortunately, that really doesn't devalue the original point I was making.  
 
If you want a set of collets that completely cover the complete range of grips, you need to have a metric set.  The set you linked to still has gaps in the grip range.  They are just different gaps than what exist in the 800watt set.


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## wolftat (Feb 5, 2009)

I just bought the metric set from 800watt. I had always heard that it would take a long time for shipping, but they were here 3 days later. I compared both sets and I opted to save the $20 and buy the metric. Now I am just waiting for my Beall collet chuck to be delivered and I have more tools sitting around not being used...LOL


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## Randy_ (Feb 5, 2009)

Well, Neil, that really throws a wrench in the works.  I haven't seen 800's prices for a while; but I always thought the metric sets were more expensive because they had three more collets......21 vs. 18.
 
I have noticed on occasion that he seems to have pricing irregularities..... always wondered if they were real or just typo errors by his staff?  Sounds like you got a real deal!!!


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## wolftat (Feb 5, 2009)

The set I bought was the 18 piece metric. They also had an 18 piece ASE, but it was $20 more.

I just checked my set and it goes from 2mm to 20mm without missing any sizes. They must have changed the sets.
Funny thing is they are selling the same sets with a $30 difference in price. I bought my set with a buy it now for $60.


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## Randy_ (Feb 5, 2009)

Guess I am going to have to revisit eBay and refresh my memory.  I thought the metric sets were 21 collets sets; but it is obvious that a set running from 2mm to 20mm can't be 21 collets.  Guess I got confused somewhere??
 
It would appear that a set running from 2-20mm might be an 19 collet set unless you are talking about the grip range in which the smallest collet in the series would be labeled as a 3mm collet; but would be able to chuck up a 2mm rod.


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## wolftat (Feb 5, 2009)

Randy, you are correct, that is the grip range. the smallest is 3-2 and the largest is 20-19. I double checked and I did get the set on a buy it now for $60, I guess I got a good deal on them.


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## Randy_ (Feb 5, 2009)

wolftat said:


> .....Funny thing is they are selling the same sets with a $30 difference in price. I bought my set with a buy it now for $60.


 
I remember seeing that kind of thing all of the time.  Also the shipping charges were never consistent.
 
I just looked at his listings on eBay and as you said the 18 collet set (3mm-20mm) was selling for $70 or $100........take your pick.  Shipping on the $100 set was $10 and on the $70 was $16.........go figure??

Still can't figure out where I came up with the idea there was a 21 collet set?  Maybe he was selling a complete set of Imperial sizes from 1/8 to 3/4.  That would require 21 collets.   Just don't know??

Anyway, it looks like you can get either an Imperial or a metric 18 collet set right now for the same price.......metric set would be the better choice!!


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## Glass Scratcher (Feb 5, 2009)

Randy,

I wasn't trying to dissagree or devalue your point.  I was making an observation that there was another set that overlapped with the missing collets but still had holes where it had different collets missing.  I have only use 3 collets out my sets so I don't know if I will ever need the collets that are missing from either set listed on ebay.

I think 800watt did have a set listed as a 21pc set.  On those he counts the collet chuck, wrench and collet nut as the 3 additional parts to the 18 collets.  I bought it thinking the MT2 collet chuck would be handy, but the run-out in the taper on my lathe made it more than I thought it should be so I ordered the PSI for the threaded collet.  So I have a few collet overlaps.


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## Randy_ (Feb 5, 2009)

Glass Scratcher said:


> .....*I wasn't trying to dissagree or devalue your point*. I was making an observation that there was another set that overlapped with the missing collets.....


 
Charles: I know you weren't and I didn't mean to imply that you were by my response.  I took your comment as nothing more than some additional information for the discussion and was glad to know there were other options!!


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## wolftat (Feb 5, 2009)

I just opened my collet chuck from Beall, is there any difference between this one and the one from PSI? The chuck I bought is threaded in 1x8 and is real smooth.


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## Randy_ (Feb 5, 2009)

About 80 bucks!!:biggrin::biggrin:

I suspect the PSI chuck is not finished as nicely as the Beall; but there have masny posts that PSI chuck works well and i have never seen a negative comment.

The PSI chuck does have a knurled ring and body so, in theory, you can tighten and loosen collets without spanners. Not sure how well that will work for folks with weak hands or arthritis?

A little tip for you in case you haven't seen it already. The chucks can sometimes get jammed on the spindle and be a bear to remove. Cut yourself a washer to fit over the nose of the spindle before you spin on the chuck. I made one out the top of a tub of butter; but a piece of leather will work well, too. This will mostlikely save you some frustration.

Do you know the trick for inserting the collets in the chuck?? You can ruin the chuck if you don't.


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## wolftat (Feb 5, 2009)

I only paid 80 bucks for it. I learned about the little washer thing after I got a 4 jaw chuck stuck some years ago. Can you tell me the trick or do I have to lose a few chucks first to earn it?:biggrin:


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## Randy_ (Feb 5, 2009)

wolftat said:


> I only paid 80 bucks for it. I learned about the little washer thing after I got a 4 jaw chuck stuck some years ago. Can you tell me the trick or do I have to lose a few chucks first to earn it?:biggrin:


 
I think the Beall chuck comes with instructions; but some don't read them and some don't understand them.
 
You do "not" stick a collet in the chuck body and then screw on the nose nut as Beall calls it.  This is the instinctive method to put a collet chuck together; but it is wrong.  
 
You must place the collet in the nose nut and tip it a little or wiggle it around until it pops into position.  When it is positioned properly the face of the collet is almost flush with the face of the nose nut.  Then you take the nut/collet assembly and screw them onto the chuck body.
 
If you don't do it this way, the collet will not hold properly and you could damage your chuck.


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## edman2 (Feb 6, 2009)

Thanks guys for all the info. Learned a lot more than I asked and it will be very useful. I did order the Beall chuck last night.  So, I am on my way!:biggrin:
Randy, thanks for the tip on how to use the collets. I would have surely put them in wrong.


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## Glass Scratcher (Feb 6, 2009)

I remember the first time I put a collet in and it popped into the locking ring inside the collet nut, I thought I had surely broken it by the *SNAP* sound it made.


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## wolftat (Feb 6, 2009)

Thank you Randy, it would suck if I broke my chuck the first time I decided to force a collet in....LOL The thing did come with instructions, but as you said, I threw them aside and started playing with it before I read anything. I would have looked them over afterwards. Lets face it, I'm a man and I only read the instructions when all else fails, so you just enabled me to continue with that line of thinking. :biggrin:


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## edman2 (Feb 9, 2009)

Just for the record - I ordered the Beall Collet Chuck on Wednesday evening Feb 4 and received it today Feb 9.  I also ordered a collet set from 800Watt on Ebay the same evening and received it today also.  Five days including the weekend just is superb service from both vendors.  If I had a hat I would take it off to both companies.


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## rjwolfe3 (Feb 9, 2009)

Do you mind telling us how you paid total for everything?  I am thinking of doing the same but not sure how much I need to budget.


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## edman2 (Feb 9, 2009)

Rounded up to the next whole dollar I paid $89 for the Beall Collet Chuck (including shipping) and $86 for the collet set from 800Watt (including shipping). Got the SAE set.  Took me three years to work them to the top of my "can't live without it list." :biggrin:  




rjwolfe3 said:


> Do you mind telling us how you paid total for everything? I am thinking of doing the same but not sure how much I need to budget.


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## rjwolfe3 (Feb 9, 2009)

Mmmm not as bad as I thought it would be.  Will see if I have any money left after the bills.


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## Borg_B_Borg (Feb 9, 2009)

For those who bought ER32 collets from 800watt, what kind of runout do your collets have?  I have an imperial set from him and when mounted on my wood lathe they have runout as large as 0.004".  Of course, it's hard for me to determine whether it's the collets, or the collet chuck, or my lathe's spindle that's causing such a large runout.

Steve


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## Daniel (Feb 11, 2009)

Steve. you can measure the run out of each. since the portion of the chuck is seperate fro the part that holds the collet you can measure it's run out at that point. you can measure any runout of the lathes spindle by removing everything and measuring at the spindle. mine has a handy plate on it that makes this easy. if these check out the run out is in the collet by default. Keep in mind that any crud that gets into the chuck is going to cause runout in the collet. as for me my 800 watt collet set has no noticable run out at all. in fact I have more trouble with my tail stock alignment than I do the head stock end of things. and I commonly do things on my lathe that 4/1000 simply would not be good enough. that much run out is the difference in an acceptable bullet and a wrecked one.


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## Daniel (Feb 11, 2009)

I actually have both an 800 watt chuck and a Beall chuck. I use the 800 more often but like both equally. if anything I would give the edge to the 800 watt chuck. I have only 800 watt collets and have not had any problems with them at all and they work equally well in either chuck. I would recommend jsut getting a chuck and collets from 800 watt and see just what all you can come up with to use them for. I think I use mine more than any other chuck in my shop.
I hold bullets to be drilled in them, I hold my pen mandrel in one, I will often turn a blank round at one end just to be able to hold them in the collet. Most recently I came up with a use for them that they where never intended to do and that is to prevent a blank form blowing out while it is being drilled. what I like about it most is that it hold tight and does not mar at the same time.


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## Randy_ (Feb 11, 2009)

Just keep in mind that wood lathes were never designed to hold tolerances of only a few thousandths of an inch.  If you find one that will, that's great; but it is not something we should expect on a regular basis.
 
If you want to do work consistently that is that close, you need to purchase an engine lathe.  I don't think anyone would ever expect a Volkswagen to succeed as a 200 mph race car.


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## Daniel (Feb 11, 2009)

Good point Randy, one that needs to be better understood by many. nothing is ever perfect. My comments above are in regard to a metal lathe. I have no idea what run out on my wood lathe is I would not consider doing any work on it that i would need to be concerned about it. As you point out it was never made to be that precise. I never consider it would be. Collets still work well for many things even on the wood lathe. Precision is not necessarily at the top of the list though. I do get an improvment with run out in my pen mandrel with the collet or the scroll chuck compared to a MT. I used to have to really work to get a concentric pen barrel. now it is almost a non issue.


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## RichB (Feb 11, 2009)

How do I find 800Watt on Ebay?  When I type it on Ebay all I get is electronic stuff. Thanks Rich


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## Daniel (Feb 11, 2009)

Try this link.
http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/800watt_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ
I searched ER32 collets then looked for one of his items.
The link is to all of his items.


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## RichB (Feb 11, 2009)

Thanks Daniel


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