# Cigar Pen failures!?



## redfishsc (Aug 17, 2006)

I have been buying cigar kits from the local Woodcraft since they were on sale that month cheaper than internet sources. These are the only cigars I've turned. I believe they are Berea kits though I'm not sure. 


Anyhow, one of them, the tranny failed. The twist mechanism doesn't "stop" when you retract the pen-- if you continue the twist you wind up advancing the tip again, with an irritating grindy feel. Not smooth at all. 


Another pen, a platinum, has a similar problem but I think it is the refill binding in the nib. The problem here is that it will NOT retract when you twist it. You have to twist it and tap it on something to push it back in there. I've studied this booger all I can and the only conclusion I've found is that the included refill is binding in the small hole in the nib.


Has either of these happened to anyone? I seem to be a magnet for pen failures. I have probably had a 20% failure rate with PSI slimline pens, similar tranny problems or they came with sub-crappy refills.


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## alamocdc (Aug 17, 2006)

Fish, I've not had a failure with Berea Cigars or PSI slimlines. A few others, but not those.


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## clewless (Aug 18, 2006)

Is there a black cloud over your house a la Al Capp's Joe Blvstyk?

Take refill out and put it into the nib from the outside.  You'll be able to tell if its binding.  Solution run a thin round file through the hole a few times...don't have one? another excuse to head for HF []

Tranny should be a double twist type so it should extend/retract/extend, but smoothly.

Thanks for getting all of the problem pens/refills.  You've saved the rest of us a lot of aggravation[][] Seriously, I've had zero defects so far...fingers crossed...[8D]

I've gotten one kit with missing parts from Ryan, and it was cheerfully replaced on my next order.  And I got one bad refill from CSUSA (a little red one for the DUO) which they put into the mail today...again cheerfully.

I think we are very luck to have such a good group of vendors including Ernie and BB.


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## mdburn_em (Aug 18, 2006)

I've also had some significant failures with Berea Cigar pens.  I've made 10 and had 3 failures.  I will not soon be buying any more cigar pens unless they are specifically asked for.  
Regarding PSI slimlines.  I purchased 70 during one of their sales...buy 50 get 20 free...and I've made about 1/2 with 1 transmission failure.  I can live with that...especially with the price I paid.  I think they came out to about $1.37 each.
My newest failures have been the Berea comfort grip click pens.  I bought 5 and made 2.  Both of them have exactly the same problem.  They retract sporadically.  Sometimes they will and other times they won't until given a tiny nudge.  I'll try making the other three and see how they go.  I've also found that the brand most likely to have a loose fitting part, is Berea.  I can't tell you how many times I have to get the CA out to create a bond for something that should be snug from a press fit.  I don't think I've had one problem with a PSI or CSUSA kit like that.
Just my 2 cents.


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## Firefyter-emt (Aug 18, 2006)

I had a Euro with a tranny failure a little bit ago (PSI from Ryan) More of a line screw up when it was made, they forgot to thread it for the refill! I was able to get 90% of it out and while working th last bit of brass it dawned on me that I could just leave it and press it in with the new tranny. Ryan offered to mail one out right away, but I was in no big need so I told him on the next order he can toss it in. I did have a Berea cigar fail a few months back, but that might of been my fault.


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## Randy_ (Aug 18, 2006)

> _Originally posted by redfishsc_
> <br />.....the only conclusion I've found is that the included refill is binding in the small hole in the nib.....



This is a fairly common problem.  The clearance between tip and nib is very close and manufacturing tolerances or an extra heavy plating can cause binding.  A rat-tail file would be a good solution to ream out the hole in the tip just a hair.  Not having one, I cut a thin sliver of 600 grit sandpaper(1/16" maybe) and stick it in the hole.  Chase it with a fine finishing nail for backing and polish the hole enough for the refill to fit properly. 

I have found that the Parker brand refills are a few thousandths larger than the generic refills that come with the kits.  It's possible for the pens to be working perfectly when they leave your shop; but fail, 6 months down the road, when a Parker brand refill is installed.  Everyone who makes/sells cigar pens should have a Parker brand refill in house and test every pen before it goes to a new owner.  A #38 wire gauge twist drill will make the correct size hole for the tip of the Parker refill.


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## ctEaglesc (Aug 18, 2006)

I have purchased cigar kits from only 2 suppliers and normally get them from PSI.Once I got them from BB.
In two years I have only had one tranny failure.
One thing I have learned from modifying kits is the "binding" doesn't always come from the tip of the refill going through the hole at the end of the nib but at the point wkere the spring fits in the collar(the part that press fits into the tube)
As stated earlier the tolerances on the plated pieces are very close and the portion of the refill tube that goes into that collar or stem is tapered.
The nice thing about the cigar is the nib section unscrews rather than needs to be punched out so the fix is easy.


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## OSCAR15 (Aug 18, 2006)

I get my cigars from PSI. No failures yet. Never had a PSI slimline fail yet either. I guess it is a matter of time till I get a lemon.
 Is there a black cloud over your house a la Al Capp's Joe Blvstyk?
Clewless: Are we both that old that we remember Joe Blvstyk? What was the name of the Al Capp guy that was always getting kicked in the behind? I am having a mental block here...


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## Mudder (Aug 18, 2006)

> _Originally posted by redfishsc_
> <br /> These are the only cigars I've turned. I believe they are Berea kits though I'm not sure.



Is the transmission made COMPLETELY of metal?

Does it look like this?



<b>Image Insert:</b><br />


<br /> 

It has been my experience that woodcraft gets the cigars from two different sources and it the transmission looks like the one above it is not a Berea kit.

If the woodcraft is close I would return the kit and ask them to replace the bad part. Maybe they have someone there who might be able to tell you if it is an assembly issue. Beware though; not all Woodcraft stores are the same and of the three in Connecticut, one store is useless and the second store is not much better. Thankfully the third store is run by a woodworker and gives lots of help.


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## alamocdc (Aug 18, 2006)

Wasn't it Andy Cap(p)? It was one of my favorite newspaper comics.


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## OSCAR15 (Aug 18, 2006)

Billy  it was indeed Andy Capp...I HAVEN'T HEARD THAT MENTIONED IN YEARS! Blast from the Past


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## DFM (Aug 18, 2006)

> _Originally posted by OSCAR15_
> <br />Billy  it was indeed Andy Capp...I HAVEN'T HEARD THAT MENTIONED IN YEARS! Blast from the Past



Andy is still alive and on the internets http://www.comics.com/creators/andycapp/index.html


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## bonefish (Aug 18, 2006)

I have found, and probably along with many others, that the parts have to be perfectly straight when pressed in. If they are out of alignment only slightly, you end up with a FUBOR. (Fouled Up BeyOnd Repair)

Bonefish


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## airrat (Aug 18, 2006)

I have made cigars from Berea and PSI.   Only ones I have NOT been happy with are the PSI.   I have made over a 100 cigars with only one transmission failure.   They have all seemed to fit together without any complaints.   The PSI I have had to glue in nib of almost every style I have made.   Unless I get someone that wants something only PSI offers, I stick with Berea and CS.

Sadly you will get alot of different comments on which brand people like.  Its all a personal preference.  Also I dont buy from woodcraft due to their prices higher then the internet.


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## Firefyter-emt (Aug 18, 2006)

> _Originally posted by bonefish_
> <br />I have found, and probably along with many others, that the parts have to be perfectly straight when pressed in. If they are out of alignment only slightly, you end up with a FUBOR. (Fouled Up BeyOnd Repair)
> 
> Bonefish



True, but the cigar transmission is not pressed in..[]


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## Randy_ (Aug 18, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Firefyter-emt_
> <br />.....True, but the cigar transmission is not pressed in..[]



True; but the coupling that it screws on to is!!


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## TheHoneymooners (Aug 18, 2006)

ooooops .....see post below! []


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## TheHoneymooners (Aug 18, 2006)

Ditto what Randy says...I had a pesky Cigar pen once when I first started making them. It was very stiff to turn.( I was still "squaring' my blanks on the disc grinder...without a jig)I was set up at a show one Saturday morning and was tweaking a few pens. I was carrying the problem pen as my personal driver and it dawned on me. I knocked out the coupler touched it up with my new barrel trimmer and presto, a smoothly turning pen.BTW I sold that pen later in the day!
On  the problem of the refill not retracting ...or not extending for that matter, it's just as Eagle and several others said. Close tolerances and thick platings .....I've run into it only twice with Berea Cigars and it was just like Randy stated. The refill provided with the kit was fine but the guy I sold it to wanted a gel.He got home and changed it out and it wouldn't extend. Called me and between the two of us we figured it out. I mic'd the different refills and there is a measureable difference. The other time I caught it when I was letting a customer try out a gel refill


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## alamocdc (Aug 18, 2006)

> _Originally posted by TheHoneymooners_
> <br />Ditto what Randy says...I had a pesky Cigar pen once when I first started making them. It was very stiff to turn.( I was still "squaring' my blanks on the disc grinder...without a jig)I was set up at a show one Saturday morning and was tweaking a few pens. I was carrying the problem pen as my personal driver and it dawned on me. I knocked out the coupler touched it up with my new barrel trimmer and presto, a smoothly turning pen.BTW I sold that pen later in the day!
> On  the problem of the refill not retracting ...or not extending for that matter, it's just as Eagle and several others said. Close tolerances and thick platings .....I've run into it only twice with Berea Cigars and it was just like Randy stated. The refill provided with the kit was fine but the guy I sold it to wanted a gel.He got home and changed it out and it wouldn't extend. Called me and between the two of us we figured it out. I mic'd the different refills and there is a measureable difference. The other time I caught it when I was letting a customer try out a gel refill



You bring up a good point. I have had two Cigars that gave me grief. The wouldn't extend or retract properly. It turned out to be my fault. The barrels weren't square and it makes a big difference. I was using my 7mm pen mill and "eyeballing" it. Once I turned a bushing to fit the 7mm pen mill and inside the Cigar tubes correctly, this problem never occurred again so I never thought to mention it in my first post.


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## Rojo22 (Aug 18, 2006)

I have had but 4 of these "smaller" tip kits.  All of them from Woodcraft stores.  I have had both the gold and chrome kits do this.  But I guess out of over 400 kits, that aint all that bad. 

If you have an irritating grinding feel in the transmission, it is normally due to grit that got on the lubricant while exposed to the air borne stuff in the workshop or stuff on the bench where the parts were located.  I keep the transmission in the bag until the last possible second, and I wash my hands before I screw the transmission on the pen.  This helped greatly on the grit problem.

I over tightened the tip once on a cigar tip with the drill press(knuckle dragger coming out in me), and that caused a pen to do what you are describing as well.  Not sure but I think I flared the tip to the inside diameter and caused the "hang up" ....Sometimes I get excited about finishing a pen...LOL.....


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## redfishsc (Aug 18, 2006)

Thanks all. I've read all your posts and got a wealth of troubleshooting. Here's what's happened. 


1) The pen that wouldn't retract---- it IS the refill jamming in the nib, and it's b/c I dropped the pen and ovalled the nib. Going to mildly ream out the nib. It's my personal shop beat-er-up pen so it's no biggie. I am pleased, quite pleased, with how the platinum finish has held up.

2) The pen with the grindy twist mechanism (the one that doesn't have the stop, it just spins around and around crudely)---- woodcraft replaced the tranny and it works like a new one. Now I have to fix the finish, I goofed it the first time around, fortunatley a cigar is an easy finishing fix with a homemade dead center (wood) held in a chuck. 



Many thanks all. 

And for those of you who rarely get pen refills that crap out, 


YOU SUCK![!]


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## Randy_ (Aug 18, 2006)

> _Originally posted by TheHoneymooners_
> <br />.....The other time I caught it when I was letting a customer try out a gel refill.....



BTW, Parker seems to have pretty good quality control.  The gel cartridges and the ball point cartridges that I have all measured exactly the same at the tip. I checked about a dozen refills and all of them measured 0.010"Â±0.  If you measured a thousand, there would probably be a few that varied a bit; but I have been using the Parker refill for 40+ years and never had a problem with one!!


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## GBusardo (Aug 18, 2006)

Thanks DFM,  now I just wasted a half an hour reading freaken Andy Capp  [^]
Cool link
Gary


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## herper62 (Aug 18, 2006)

Mudder, could you please email me with the order you like Ct's Woodcraft stores? curious if you like the same one I do. Thanks
Herper
herper62@yahoo.com


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## bonefish (Aug 19, 2006)

[blue]Originally posted by bonefish

I have found, and probably along with many others, that the parts have to be perfectly straight when pressed in. If they are out of alignment only slightly, you end up with a FUBOR. (Fouled Up BeyOnd Repair)

Bonefish

What I actually meant was that the press-in parts for all pens, regardless of style, have to be started perfectly straight, and also be pressed in the correct length, and also be straight after they are pressed in. Cigars, Slimlines, Monts, Perfect fit, all of them. This would also include rollerballs to prevent the cap from being out of alignment with the pen body.

Bonefish


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## TheHoneymooners (Aug 20, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Randy__
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...



You're right Randy ...I didn't make my post clear, the Parker refills all measured the same , it was the original refill provided with the kit that was different. Just as you said I've never had any problems with authentic Parker refills.


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## tnilmerl (Aug 21, 2006)

Follow Clewless's advice and smooth the inner bore with a needle file until the binding stops.  Never had this on a cigar pen, but Woodcraft's taper pen was notorious for this problem.  One of the reasons it was dropped from production, I imagine.

Speaking of Woodcraft and cigar pens, WC has finally started carrying the platinum and black enameled finishes.  Also have a new 'Premier' gold.  They have discontinued their standard gold.  Most WC outlets will be moving their current inventory (of the standard gold) over to the clearance rack.  Time to grab a few....


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## JimQ (Aug 23, 2006)

Long Live Little Abner and Dogpatch.  Anybody find any Smoo's?

We are all getting older than we think.  

JimQ


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