# Now I need a list of things to buy to make a pen



## Mengtian (Oct 22, 2015)

Now I need a list of things to buy to make a pen!   This is what I have for equipment:
-Rikon 70-220 VSR
-Delta Industrial 46-461 Reversible Nova G3-D Woodturning Chuck 
-Heavy Duty 1/2" Keyed Lathe Drill Chuck #2 MT 
-PSI Woodworking LCHSS8 HSS Wood Lathe Chisel Set, 8-Piece 
-PSI No. 2MT Heavy Duty Live Tailstock Center (friend gave it to me)
-NOVA 6034 PEN PLUS JAWS (comes with 3 pen kits!)

Safety:
-Uvex S8510 Bionic Shield, Black Matte Face Shield

Sharpening:
-Rikon 80-805 slow speed 8" grinder
-Oneway Wolverine Grinding Jig 
-Wolverine Vari-Grind Attachment 


I know folks say stay away from kits.  In lieu of purchasing a kit like:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0043M5YDE?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=ox_sc_sfl_title_5&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

What "list" of stuff should I get?  Mandrels (which ones are good), drill bits, flush cutting tools, CA...etc.  

I added them up individually and they come up to more than a kit it is.

Advice?


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## jttheclockman (Oct 22, 2015)

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f30/beginners-other-tooling-needed-make-pens-129265/


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## Sabaharr (Oct 22, 2015)

Turn between centers and do away with the mandrel. As for drill bits it is best to buy them as you need them for whatever kits you are ordering. Staples would be 7mm, 10mm, and 27/64" for starters but it really depends on what kits you want to make. Get thin and Medium CA to start with. A set of Micro mesh pads and 220 through 600 grit sand paper for finishing is a good start too.


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## CREID (Oct 22, 2015)

You forgot MONEY.

Curt


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## ed4copies (Oct 22, 2015)

"Stay away from kits"

Every day I answer many questions from people who have been making pens for a short time (using kits).  These questions and their answers give the rudimentary information required to make a working pen.  If you decide to start, without using a kit,  you will need to "figure out" every dimension, how to thread without weakening your product and how to extend a refill (if you plan to do ballpoints).

I would say "kits" teach you the fundamentals of pen making.  

Eliminating them is akin to starting your mathematical education with calculus--your chances of success are minimal.

Good luck, enjoy the hobby however you choose to participate!!!!
Ed


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## Skie_M (Oct 22, 2015)

Sabaharr said:


> Turn between centers and do away with the mandrel. As for drill bits it is best to buy them as you need them for whatever kits you are ordering. Staples would be 7mm, 10mm, and 27/64" for starters but it really depends on what kits you want to make. Get thin and Medium CA to start with. A set of Micro mesh pads and 220 through 600 grit sand paper for finishing is a good start too.



Ok .... you're giving this advice to a beginner, here.

Someone who's never made a pen before is going to have a lot of difficulty getting going without mandrels and bushings ...  After someone's been at it for a while and become accomplished at the basics, THEN propose turning between centers.


As for the advice about not using "kits" ...  well, it depends on the type of kit and what's in it, really!  If you need the majority of what's in the kit and it would save you money (say, the mandrel saver starter kit, where you get a mandrel, the mandrel saver, a 7mm drill bit, and 5 7mm bushings) and you happen to want or need ALL of that, then yes, it's a good idea to get that kit.  Make sure that whenever you buy any tooling (like the mandrel and mandrel saver) that you always double check to ensure you are getting something that will match your lathe.  In your case, I'm assuming you'll need a #2 Morse Taper kit.  I use a mini lathe from Harbor Freight, so I use the #1 Morse Taper kit.  They are NOT interchangeable.

Furthermore, for kits ... if you are getting a "starter kit" for a type of pen and you have none of the accessories that you'll want to get going with it ... yes, that's a great idea!  For instance, PSI often offers a deal with some of their higher end pens that helps get new turners in the door.  "Buy 1 Jr Majestic Rollerball in "XXXX/YYYY finish" and we'll toss in a set of trimming sleeves, 2 drill bits, and the bushing set that matches!"  

Lastly, in the case of kit pens vs kitless .... you do NOT want to attempt a kitless pen without a LOT of experience under your belt.  Kitless pens are generally made with a MINIMUM of store-bought parts.  If you can't machine all the parts of the pen yourself, you're stuck!  Stick with using a kit till you feel you are ready to take the plunge .... and then start out with small modifications, like removing/swapping components, changing the style of a finial or cap, or adapting one kit's parts to fit another kit to compliment the style.



As for what I would grab, if I were in your shoes right now .....

Starting with a mandrel saver package:
https://www.pennstateind.com/store/PKMS2SET.html
This package gets you the 7mm drill bit and 5 7mm bushings for spacers, the mandrel, and the mandrel saver in #2MT


and getting a basic 7mm pen package:
https://www.pennstateind.com/store/PKSP105A.html
This package gets you 3 sets of bushings and 2 each of 4 different pen styles. (bushings for standard slimline are the basic 7mm bushings that came with your mandrel)  You get slimline, trimline, designer, and comfort grip styles.  Each will have one 24kt gold finish and one other, usually satin chrome, but I believe the trimline alternate for me was a gunmetal color.  This package also includes 10 cocobolo blanks, which are a gorgeous wood.  Make sure you use a dust collector, as cocobolo oils and dust can be a bad irritant ... many people have adverse reactions to it.


for trimming your blank and squaring it:
https://www.pennstateind.com/store/barrel-trimming-system.html  Pick something reasonable from this selection.  If you have a disc sander with a miter slot, then you may want the universal pen blank squaring jig. (will be one of my next purchases, but I'll have to put my sander back together, lol)  If you dont have or want the sander, then you can try the barrel trimming options.  Just stay away from the carbide one!  I hear it's much too aggressive and will rip blanks apart on you.


You already have a chuck, pen drilling jaws, and a drill chuck, so that's everything you need already, including your chisels.


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## jttheclockman (Oct 22, 2015)

ed4copies said:


> "Stay away from kits"
> 
> Every day I answer many questions from people who have been making pens for a short time (using kits).  These questions and their answers give the rudimentary information required to make a working pen.  If you decide to start, without using a kit,  you will need to "figure out" every dimension, how to thread without weakening your product and how to extend a refill (if you plan to do ballpoints).
> 
> ...




Ed

Is this a calculated error:biggrin:

When he said kits, he meant tools and other objects clumped together as a package. Nothing about pen kits. See link he provided.


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## magpens (Oct 22, 2015)

That Amazon "kit" you posted (containing tools, blanks, drills, bushings, pen kits, etc.)  will certainly get you started, but I suspect there are components in that "kit" that you won't use, or won't use very much.  In a "kit" like that  you expect that the tools are of rather low quality (I could be wrong).  Same with the drill bits. Starting right off by turning between centers instead of using a mandrel is possible and will save you money and give you a better result once you master the skills.

(That "kit" is not the thing that most pen-turners refer to as a kit.  To us, a kit is a plastic baggie containing actual pen parts to make a specific pen.)

Let's face it ... we all buy things in the beginning that we end up using very little.  It is part of the learning experience and we are all different in the ways we discover how we like to do things.

If you can, go to a store that sells pen crafting materials and tools.  It's best to talk to a person who actually makes pens if you can.  Ask to see their pens and ask them what tools they used.  Even then, you could end up with stuff that you, yourself, may not like to use.

The thing that I always harp on with beginners to pen making is that starting with slimline kits is not the best route for everybody ... slimlines are tricky to get a good result in the beginning.  Start with a kit like the 30 Cal Bolt Action which is designed to look good with straight-sided barrels ... easy to get a good result and high satisfaction level.

... my 2 cents worth.  I started 5+ years ago.  Knowing what I know now, I would start differently.  Send me a PM with specific questions and I'll try to help you out.  Here are a few tips:

- buy good quality bits, like Norseman.  Buy a 1/8" center bit for starting the hole

- think about doing your drilling on the lathe, and buy what you need for that

- think about doing your turning between centers and avoid bushings if you can (but you may want to do your first few pens with 'em)

- ask plenty of questions and be prepared for answers that may surprise you and some that may be wrong for YOU

- think of buying carbide tools like Easy Start - they are great in spite of what some diehard "purists" say

- condition yourself for making mistakes ... you will, and you will learn from them

- don't buy a heap of predrilled blanks to start with - a couple maybe, but you'll soon tire of the type of wood in the "heap"

- Birdseye maple, Olivewood and Bocote are nice woods to start with

- there are a couple of companies that I wouldn't buy certain things from ... PM me and I'll tell you

- I'll think of more .... send me some questions in PM


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## duncsuss (Oct 22, 2015)

*there's a language barrier here*



Mengtian said:


> I know folks say stay away from kits.  In lieu of purchasing a kit like:
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...rue&ref_=ox_sc_sfl_title_5&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER





ed4copies said:


> "Stay away from kits"





Skie_M said:


> As for the advice about not using "kits" ...



Different folks are using the word *kit* in different ways.

Following the link in the original post, I'm fairly confident that Mengtian is using it to mean "a starter pack of 5 chisels, a mandrel, a few rolls of sandpaper, and a couple of drill bits".

And it sounds like Ed was in the "kit-pen versus kitless/custom/bespoke pen" thought pattern.


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## Skie_M (Oct 22, 2015)

Mmmm ... yes, the word "kit" has several different meanings and connotations, depending on the context and community it is used in ...

For hunters, a kit is a baby fox ...

For homeowners/kids, a kit is a baby cat (kitten).

For military men and women, a kit is their personal gear and clothing.

For medical personnel, a kit is the medical equipment and consumables suitable for their level of training to deal with medical emergencies.

For people like us, who make pens ...  Kits can include tooling, tools, pen parts, ect ...

Isn't language crazy-making and fun?


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## jttheclockman (Oct 22, 2015)

He gave a link. Doesn't anyone read???:biggrin:


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## duncsuss (Oct 22, 2015)

jttheclockman said:


> He gave a link. Doesn't anyone read???:biggrin:


Oh, yes :biggrin:  ... but I didn't refresh the thread before posting my comment, so I hadn't seen the post you made a few minutes ahead of me saying basically the same thing.

I've seen other fora with an alert that pops up "new messages posted, would you like to see them now?" which has saved me from repeating points others have just made.


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## Drewboy22 (Oct 22, 2015)

Skie_M said:


> Sabaharr said:
> 
> 
> > Turn between centers and do away with the mandrel. As for drill bits it is best to buy them as you need them for whatever kits you are ordering. Staples would be 7mm, 10mm, and 27/64" for starters but it really depends on what kits you want to make. Get thin and Medium CA to start with. A set of Micro mesh pads and 220 through 600 grit sand paper for finishing is a good start too.
> ...



Very good points Skie.  I used that basic track when I started.  I found that 7mm starter kit VERY helpful.


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## Mengtian (Oct 22, 2015)

Skie_M said:


> Sabaharr said:
> 
> 
> > Turn between centers and do away with the mandrel. As for drill bits it is best to buy them as you need them for whatever kits you are ordering. Staples would be 7mm, 10mm, and 27/64" for starters but it really depends on what kits you want to make. Get thin and Medium CA to start with. A set of Micro mesh pads and 220 through 600 grit sand paper for finishing is a good start too.
> ...



Thanks!  Your post was what I was looking for.  I am shopping right now.  i will post what I will get later for "review"


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## Mengtian (Oct 22, 2015)

Any recommendations for CA for finishing?


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## duncsuss (Oct 22, 2015)

Mengtian said:


> Any recommendations for CA for finishing?



For me, nothing but "Odorless" ... I got tired of the stuffed nose and sinus headache that I'd get using the regular CA, haven't had those issues since switching to the odorless type.

I use StarBond, but I know there are others.


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## mecompco (Oct 22, 2015)

Mengtian said:


> Any recommendations for CA for finishing?



Thin CA, Boiled Linseed Oil (BLO), paper towels, MM sanding pads; this is what I bought: Micro-Mesh 2" Assortment Pack - 18 Pieces: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

and some plastic polish--I use Meguire's from the auto parts store.

Regards,
Michael

PS I second turning between centers (using the bushings). I also highly recommend drilling on the lathe, as well as using it for an assembly press. I also urge you to forgo the pen mill and true your blanks on a sander (I use a home-made sanding wheel on my lathe).


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## Mengtian (Oct 22, 2015)

Well, I think I have everything I need and maybe more LOL.  I got a drill bit set since I will have the bits for further pens and if not, I could always use extra drill bits...especially metric.  I got a pen press.  I have heard yea's and nays. 

I got the Lathe and Grinder from Performance Tools Line.  No taxes, free shipping, and the lowest cost around


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## Skie_M (Oct 22, 2015)

I have Minwax Stain and Seal that I picked up at a local lumber yard (McCoy's, though ACE may also carry it, as well as Lowe's and Home Depot).  I use it as a pre-finish, the color is "natural" so it slightly darkens the wood and gives it a "wet" look.

On top of that, while the stain and seal is still wet, I begin applying the first coat of CA.  I just use the cheap stuff in the 10-pack of tubes you can buy at Harbor Freight for $2.99.  I use this for gluing my barrels as well as finishing.  6 - 9 coats, then 1000 grit wet, jump to micromesh and finish with Meguiar's PlastX and Turtle Wax hard coat polish.  Every time I reach double or triple on the grit (like 1000, 3200, 6000, 12,000) I stop the lathe and sand laterally to break any radial lines before I continue.


We're all looking forward to seeing your first pen!


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## Skie_M (Oct 22, 2015)

Oh ya ... I dare someone to make a pen on my first lathe ...


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## shastastan (Oct 24, 2015)

<<
for trimming your blank and squaring it:
https://www.pennstateind.com/store/b...ng-system.html Pick something reasonable from this selection. If you have a disc sander with a miter slot, then you may want the universal pen blank squaring jig. (will be one of my next purchases, but I'll have to put my sander back together, lol) If you dont have or want the sander, then you can try the barrel trimming options. Just stay away from the carbide one! I hear it's much too aggressive and will rip blanks apart on you.>>

I've had some bad experiences with a carbide barrel trimming system.  I have 2 disk sanders.  One is a combo 6" with a loop belt and the other is a 10" HF disk sander.  I'm sure that I've turned at least 200 pens by now so I'm not a total beginner.  You will hear people say, "Do what works for you."  Yes, that's good advice, but as a beginner, you have to try stuff.  You probably want to try/ buy things that will be useful to you from the start.  I have bought too many things that I really didn't need and some that I didn't even use.  
For me, The 10" disk sander is the best bang for my buck.  It has an exhaust port which I hook to my Fein shop vac power switch and hose.  Of course I use the disk sander for other stuff, too.  I just go slow and do mine free hand rather than use the PSI jig. I turn the blank 90 deg. for each pass.  When I'm close to the tube end exposure, I check after each pass.  You'll find many different ways to accomplish the same end result as you gain experience.  I suggest that you watch a bunch of pen turning youtubes to gain a knowledge base.  I watched one on carbide tools and ended up buying an Easy Wood detailer tool which is really a big help (not for pens for me) on small stuff.  You will soon discover favorite tools that you'll reach for a lot.  For me pen turning is fun and I enjoy giving pens  as gifts.  I hope you will like it.


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## Skie_M (Oct 24, 2015)

Yeah ... I still need to actually get that squaring jig so that I can use it, it would make it easier for me to square my barrels.

I do it by hand, sort of he way Shastastan does it, right now, but since all my blanks are turned round prior to gluing, I ROLL the blank against the sander to ensure a flush cut end that is 90 degrees.

When I get that jig, I'll be using it.


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## GaryMGg (Oct 24, 2015)

What other woodworking tools and experience, if any, do you have?


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## thewishman (Oct 24, 2015)

Here's a few links that may be helpful:

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f18/starting-out-inexpensively-what-do-i-have-have-134740/

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f18/starting-out-i-only-want-buy-things-once-what-best-134739/

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f18/what-should-newbies-know-133010/


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## Charlie69 (Oct 25, 2015)

It looks like your good to go!  The best tools happen to be free... The IAP library and Google.   You can drastically shorten the learning curve by checking out the articles and tutorials that current and prior IAP members have written.   Incredible resource.


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## shastastan (Oct 25, 2015)

Skie_M said:


> Yeah ... I still need to actually get that squaring jig so that I can use it, it would make it easier for me to square my barrels.
> 
> I do it by hand, sort of he way Shastastan does it, right now, but since all my blanks are turned round prior to gluing, I ROLL the blank against the sander to ensure a flush cut end that is 90 degrees.
> 
> When I get that jig, I'll be using it.



Agree.  I do not turn my blanks to round before squaring the ends so the flat sided blank ends are much easier to sand on the disk sander.


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