# J B Weld



## rlharding (Jan 17, 2008)

I have a constant fear that the brass tubes will come out of all of my pens so I am always reading others methods.

I noticed over time that a lot of people use 5 min epoxy so I decided to give it a try since I had some sitting in a new container right next to my JB Weld. 

I am at the tale end of gluing a bunch of blanks this evening, and frankly, finding the whole thing a mess and doing nothing to ease my fears the brass will pop out......and than I noticed for the 1st time that I was using JB Weld.  Imagine, it's sitting in front of me for over an hour while I do glue ups, I re mix a few times and I never noticed!

Do you think it will work? I bought it to anchor my axe head back on the wood handle....

thanks for your input.


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## karlkuehn (Jan 17, 2008)

ROFL 

I think it'll work just fine, a little overkill, maybe!

Were you on autopilot? heh []


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## Randy_ (Jan 17, 2008)

It should do just fine for your pens.....assuming you never want to take them apart again!!

I'm not sure that is the best way to anchor an axehead on a wooden handle, however.


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## jwoodwright (Jan 17, 2008)

I'm with Randy on the ax head.  Normally, all you want is a handle that fits and a wedge made for that handle.  [8D]
Handles break and you want to be able to replace them.


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## ctwxlvr (Jan 17, 2008)

I agree JB Weld will work for pens overkill, yes, gluing an axe head to a handle, waste of a good axe head as when the handle breaks you won't get the old one out with out a bunch of drilling and grinding.


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## edstreet (Jan 17, 2008)

Problem with JB weld is it FAILS under any type of heat, say over 200F.  Big shock there I know to many people but it's true.  On the knife forum they did some superb glue testing and cataloged the results.  There is a reason I use loctite 324 speed bond.

http://www.knifenetwork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27463 is the thread.

If you are not up for a good long read then skip to the end and get th xls file.
http://www.mickleyknives.com/downloads/adhesives.xls

Ed


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## GBusardo (Jan 17, 2008)

I don't mean to be funny or sarcastic, really. But where the heck is the brass tube going to go? Once its attached to the pen kit, the kit itself has more of a chance of coming out of the tubes than the tube falling out of the wood. I am sure it has happened, but how often?  I think it has happened to me once and thats when I noticed the CA was not setting up at all. It was really old glue.  I probably feel like Russ Fairfield when he is trying to explain to me how easy it is to do a CA finish. lol      But really, this is not rocket science, use a decent glue and wait for it to set up, square the blanks and away you go!


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## RussFairfield (Jan 17, 2008)

I think we worry too much about finding the ultimate permanent glue. We really need only sufficient glue bond to hold the wood on the tubes while we are turning and finishing them. Once the pen is assembled, the wood is captured between the metal fittings, and there is no need for any glue at all, except to act as a filler to keep the wood concentric with the tubes. The only exception is a closed-end pen where there is a fitting pressed into a brass tube on only one end. 

We can get away with less of a glue bond for turning if we trim the ends of the blanks just shy of the end of the brass tubes so the bushings compress on the wood rather than the brass. We all to often trim until we see bright brass; and that makes the bushings compress against the tube, and not the wood. This tight fit between bushing and wood will also keep the CA glue out of the joint.

The heaviest turning load on the wood and glue is while turning the blanks from square to round.  Turning the wood to round between centers before drilling will remove this intermittent load and reduce the stress on the glue joint while we are turning the pen on the mandrel. It will also reduce the amount we have to tighten the nut on the end of the mandrel.


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## karlkuehn (Jan 17, 2008)

> _Originally posted by RussFairfield_
> 
> I think we worry too much about finding the ultimate permanent glue. We really need only sufficient glue bond to hold the wood on the tubes while we are turning and finishing them. Once the pen is assembled, the wood is captured between the metal fittings, and there is no need for any glue at all, except to act as a filler to keep the wood concentric with the tubes. The only exception is a closed-end pen where there is a fitting pressed into a brass tube on only one end.
> 
> ...



I agree mostly with what you're saying, unfortunately, if a novice were to read that advice, it could be dangerous, or at the least, extremely frustrating. Many woods need a lot more than just a dab of glue, even if they are dried and handled properly. Leaving the wood long can force it to swell when tightening the nut on the mandrel, or pressing the parts into place.

There are many woods that I use that have disintegrated/cracked due to lack of consistent gluing. I know many new turners will be experimenting with fence boards, chair spindles, firewood, etc., many of which are not true hardwoods and will need a solid glue bond to avoid a bad situation at some point. Many people will only be using wax/shellac based finished with no real holding power, so the only durability they're going to get is from the glue that they use on the tubes.

When I'm gluing, my main concern is holding the blanks together long enough to survive the turning/assembly process. I usually only use CA, unless the wood is so dense that it won't absorb into the fiber, at which point I'll use epoxy or Gorilla glue. Ditto that for any acrylics.

When I do use CA, I rough the tubes, put several random squiggles of thick CA on them, and then run a little bit of thin around the hole in the blanks, letting it soak in to the fibers. When I join the two pieces together, the thick stuff on the tubes fills gaps, clings to the brass, and mingles with the thin that has found its way into the wood fibers. I've not had a blowout since, and I mostly work with pretty unstable woods.


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## DCBluesman (Jan 17, 2008)

> _Originally posted by GBusardo_
> 
> I don't mean to be funny or sarcastic, really. But where the heck is the brass tube going to go?


EXACTLY!


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## rlharding (Jan 17, 2008)

> _Originally posted by DCBluesman_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Seriously, it wasn't until I was messed up with the JB and my gloves wouldn't stay on that I thought to question why some of you would recommend the 'epoxy' !!!

Now I admit I am not the brightest person on the block but I do have a couple of degrees and work in senior management......but I never thought of the brass having nowhere to go when the kit was all put together.  I only think of the times when I have been using the mill and the brass has popped out.

So I will join you all ROTFLMAO and give my head a real good shake!


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## Glass Scratcher (Jan 17, 2008)

> _Originally posted by edstreet_
> 
> _*Snip*_
> 
> ...



Ironically the Loctite 324 Speed Bond was not tested in the posted examination.  So- what was your reason for using it?


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## edstreet (Jan 17, 2008)

> _Originally posted by GBusardo_
> 
> I don't mean to be funny or sarcastic, really. But where the heck is the brass tube going to go? Once its attached to the pen kit, the kit itself has more of a chance of coming out of the tubes than the tube falling out of the wood. I am sure it has happened, but how often?  I think it has happened to me once and thats when I noticed the CA was not setting up at all. It was really old glue.  I probably feel like Russ Fairfield when he is trying to explain to me how easy it is to do a CA finish. lol      But really, this is not rocket science, use a decent glue and wait for it to set up, square the blanks and away you go!



I have had a euro pen come apart, the cap was attached the the brass tub and the whole upper assembly came out.

Ed


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## edstreet (Jan 17, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Glass Scratcher_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well check this out.



> I should have gotten a picture of this because it was amazing. The Loctite 324 speedbonder test piece between two metal strips held 100lbs! This was glued up like the sandblast vs scratched test pieces posted earlier. All of the others failed betwen 75 and 100lbs. This stuff held 100lbs and the metal started bending to nearly 30 degrees. I think this would have held until the metal bent completely over but I started moving it around and the bond broke.









this is the test. yes that is a vice on the left, yes that is 2 sections of metal glued together and yes that is 100 pounds in the bucket (for the 324 speed bond test) and yes it held.  Yes it is super easy to clean up, nothing gummy just simply wipe it off.  Working time is under 1 minute, non-carcinogenic, 4,900 psi tensile strength and 89,000 psi tensile modulus.

Overall super impressive.

Ed


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## Rmartin (Jan 17, 2008)

I have a 'special' pen which is turned and assembled without one drop of glue touching the brass tube. Mostly.


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## Firefyter-emt (Jan 17, 2008)

All I can say is that after trying to make a cacus blank and get 100% coverage with the CA from the blank to the PR without large air voids I do not like the CA method. With the Gorilla Glue, the glue foams completly and fills the blank. A large void can cause a blow out in the wood, or in the case of one PR cactus blank, I could "press in" the air pocket and feel the lack of glue under the RP. For the cost of the tube of GG, I am amazed many more do not use it. The glue is super easy to cleanout of the tube as the foam is not dense like the epoxy or CA.


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## edstreet (Jan 17, 2008)

Yea gorilla glue is some awesome stuff as well, only neg thing about it is the cure time and the foaming can get nasty.  They also make a version that cures white.

Ed


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## DCBluesman (Jan 17, 2008)

> I have had a euro pen come apart, the cap was attached the the brass tub and the whole upper assembly came out.
> 
> Ed



So what you're telling me is that you had an oversized hole! [8D]


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## ed4copies (Jan 17, 2008)

OR VERY undersized components, Lou.

Shame on you for only covering ONE possibility!!


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## JeffinWIS (Jan 17, 2008)

We use some 324 "at work"...good stuff.  They are proud of the "activator" though [:0]  I wonder if acetone would work...hmmmmm      http://www.barnhillbolt.com/specs/loctite7075tds.pdf


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## edstreet (Jan 18, 2008)

Jeff,

Looking at the MSDS it states chemical type Aldehyde-amine condensate, solvent acetone.


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## Gary Max (Jan 18, 2008)

Ed--- surely that would be alright to put in a oven?????????
Some folks need to realize at not everything posted works or is even safe.


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## rsulli16 (Jul 14, 2010)

*remove dried epoxy?*

hi all
new to this, but i've been trying both CA and epoxy, had some failure while trimming the blanks with the mill using CA([plenty of dry time) so i glued up a bunch ahead of time (still on my 40 blanks that came with my PA starter kit) using epoxy. all good so far.
 A little off the topic here, but one of you tell me how to dissolve dried epoxy from my insertion tube, if possible? Like using acetone on CA, I really don't want to scrape or sand it, i know i will ruin the tool. I already "skewed" my skew learning how to sharpen. 
thanks
Sulli


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## snyiper (Jul 14, 2010)

I would say a good soak in Acetone or MEK would clean it right up!!!


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