# What's trick to stuffing Sm Flat Envelope



## pete00 (Nov 18, 2006)

Howdy

After spending all day cutting blanks (of course i made a few minor miscaluation), fighting with the table saw (putting new blade on)
and kicking the dog and cat out from under me, i said 

ahhhh the hard stuff is done all i have to do is ship.

how wrong i was.....

So i grab a sm flate rate envelope and stuck in 13 blanks,
first the flap woldnt seal right,
then i squeezed too hard and poked the blanks through the sides,

then after i got it in i gave it a "shipping" shake
it sounded like glass, another shake and out pops a blank tip
( i knew i should have cut the ends of the diag cut ones)

So i go through about 4 envelops before i get it right.
I ended up putting blanks in some extra envelops i had, the white mylar or something.

So all you professional shippers, how are we SUPPOSED to do it.[]

Oh yea any one getting an order next week will be getting another bill for ten thousand dollars for aggrivation charges.....
or.... if i take my new meds they wont [}]

mailboy    pete


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## reed43 (Nov 18, 2006)

Ever think about wraping them in newspaper first.


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## Dario (Nov 18, 2006)

I wrap them in newspaper and tape...usually can pack 20+ full blanks (29 is my record) in an envelope


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## jwoodwright (Nov 18, 2006)

Pete:
 I basically cut to lenght of blank vcr cardboard sleeve.  This is Value Plus, Folks have some extra, also good for Center Bands or Oops Bands...    
Wrap the blanks together, place in sleeve, wrap sleeve, two (2) sleeves will fit in large flat rate envelope, After you "massage" it.

 I address the inner package and glue it into the flat rate envelope.  No shaking, no lost, no damage to the envelope.  One piece of packing tape over the flap, BUT NOT around the corners... [:0]


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## Randy_ (Nov 18, 2006)

You can put your blanks in either of the two smallest Priority boxes and then slip it inside a Flate Rate envelope.  It is a tight fit; but it can be done.

This is a link to where you can get the boxes for free.

http://shop.usps.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10152&storeId=10001&categoryId=13354&productId=11645&langId=-1 

That is the link to the small box.  The bigger box that will still fit is about 9"x6"x2".


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## pete00 (Nov 18, 2006)

thanks all....off to shipping school


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## ctEaglesc (Nov 18, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Randy__
> <br />You can put your blanks in either of the two smallest Priority boxes and then slip it inside a Flate Rate envelope.  It is a tight fit; but it can be done.
> This is a link to where you can get the boxes for free.
> 
> ...


I believe if youcheck, this is illegle.Yes it is done,I don't do it but it is done noneltheless.


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## pete00 (Nov 18, 2006)

Eagle funny you should say that, last week i had to ship some stuff. Only had a small priority box.
Went to the post office and said if you have a flat rate envelop you can save me a dollar.

He gave me the envelope and i said can i just put the box inside it.

He looked at me strange and said i guess so. I tried but couldnt get it to fit right. 
He said i could not put tape on the flap to hold it.
If i did it wouldnt flat rate charge anymore.

I unpacked the box and repacked in envelope.

From all the different stories i hear it almost sound like each post office has different rules.

pete


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## MesquiteMan (Nov 18, 2006)

The box mentioned says on the side that it is "provided solely for use in sending priority mail".  Flat rate priority mail is Priority Mail.  This is according to the post master at my local post office.  That is why I do it.  If I thought it was beaking the rules or being dishonest, I certainly would not do it.  I even sent a Global Priority Mail envelope with the box inside.  That has to be dropped off at the counter.  While there, I asked to talk to the postmaster and this is when he told me the above, even for Global.


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## jwoodwright (Nov 18, 2006)

Ain't that the truth, go to one Post Office and they want you to leave happy, go to another and they want to ruin your day...

Our Neighborhood Post Master denied the claim for the Insured Box that My Sister sent after Mom died.  In it was a Bowl that I had bought for Mom 20 Years ago when I was stationed in the Azores.

His Logic?  Didn't see me open the box.  He implied I probally broke it myself...  

I want to thank the Men who held me back and helped me to my car...

Otherwise, I'd be writing from Lock-up...


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## Woodlvr (Nov 18, 2006)

Thank you for that link   Eagle.[]


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## Randy_ (Nov 19, 2006)

> _Originally posted by ctEaglesc_
> <br />I believe if youcheck, this is illegle.Yes it is done,I don't do it but it is done noneltheless.



Take a look at BB's site and his discussion of the subject and the copy of the official USPS memo about use of FR envelopes that he has posted.  If you still think it is illegal, then you can certainly continue your current mailing practices.


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## its_virgil (Nov 19, 2006)

Get this Curtis. I send lots of stuff with the "box mentioned" inside of a priority envelop. Never had a problem with the postoffice here in Wichita Falls. I recently had an order to get out and also had to make a trip to my dad's home in a small central Tex town. I took the pens and blanks with me, put them in the boxes and the boxes inside the flat rate envelop. Brick Wall! I was told that the flat rate envelope had to remain "flat". "Why do think they are called flat rate envelopes", I was asked? I went to a friend's home, printed out the postal regulations on flat rate envelopes and took them back to the post office. Needless to say I won the argument but it was not an easy battle, even with the USPS regulations on flat rate envelopes as ammunition. I suppose it takes all kinds.
Do a good turn daily!
Don


> _Originally posted by MesquiteMan_
> <br />The box mentioned says on the side that it is "provided solely for use in sending priority mail".  Flat rate priority mail is Priority Mail.  This is according to the post master at my local post office.  That is why I do it.  If I thought it was beaking the rules or being dishonest, I certainly would not do it.  I even sent a Global Priority Mail envelope with the box inside.  That has to be dropped off at the counter.  While there, I asked to talk to the postmaster and this is when he told me the above, even for Global.


[]


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## Randy_ (Nov 19, 2006)

> _Originally posted by pete00_
> <br />.....From all the different stories i hear it almost sound like each post office has different rules.....



The rules are the same for every post office.  Problem is that sometimes the interpretation of those rules vary a little.

Look at BB's site and see the official USPS memo on use of the FR envelope.

In fact, I'm going to post the link right here in a minute or two so everyone who wishes can see it.

http://www.arizonasilhouette.com/Priority_Mail.htm


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## Fangar (Nov 19, 2006)

I use the flat rate envelopes all the time.  I always make sure that the flap closes and will hold with the adhesive on it.  Then I tape over it.  I have mailed out hundreds of envelopes this way without issue.  I can get 20 blanks into a FR envelope at 5.5" in length.  Above that is pushing it.  You can stack two deep in the centers to get the extras.  I have ninja like packing abilities.  

P.S.  Eagle.....

You should see the flat rate box comming your way! It only weighs 10 lbs. [] 

Fangar


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## bearfretworks (Nov 19, 2006)

> _Originally posted by jwoodwright_
> <br />Ain't that the truth, go to one Post Office and they want you to leave happy, go to another and they want to ruin your day...
> 
> Our Neighborhood Post Master denied the claim for the Insured Box that My Sister sent...
> ...



I think I go to the same Anchorage Post office......


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## Rifleman1776 (Nov 19, 2006)

I have had thick flat rate envelopes come back to me. I know they are heavily stuffed frequently but I don't want delays and reshipping problems. I put 12 or 13, no more in one and it stays flat. The regs say the envelope must close normally.


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## ctEaglesc (Nov 19, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Randy__
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...



I understand the use of the envelope Randy.
If you look on the side of the the boxes it says
"This Packaging is the property of the U.S. Postal Service asnd is provided solely for the use in sending <b>Priority Mail</b>
Misuse may be violation of Federal law.
The rate for the box is different than the rate for the envelope.
The rate for both is $4.05.BUT the box ships for that rate as long as the weight is less than a pound.
The rate for the envelope is up to 70 pounds.
Putting the box inside the envelope is using the box for a purpose  that it was not intended for.You ship in the box and it goes over a pound you pay more.


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## its_virgil (Nov 19, 2006)

My post office lady often suggests I put the boxes in a flat rate envelope if the postage on the box is more than the flat rate price. I sure hope the federal prison for postal abuse has a lathe and some pen kits and a computer so we can turn and still visit the pen forums.[]

Do a good turn daily!
Don

[/quote]
I understand the use of the envelope Randy.
If you look on the side of the the boxes it says
"This Packaging is the property of the U.S. Postal Service asnd is provided solely for the use in sending <b>Priority Mail</b>
Misuse may be violation of Federal law.
The rate for the box is different than the rate for the envelope.
The rate for both is $4.05.BUT the box ships for that rate as long as the weight is less than a pound.
The rate for the envelope is up to 70 pounds.
Putting the box inside the envelope is using the box for a purpose  that it was not intended for.You ship in the box and it goes over a pound you pay more.


[/quote]


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## Randy_ (Nov 19, 2006)

> _Originally posted by ctEaglesc_
> <br />.....Putting the box inside the envelope is using the box for a purpose  that it was not intended for.....



Maybe, maybe not...who's to say.  I don't have any reason to think your interpretation of the regs is any more correct than that of those who do use the method.  Similarly, I doubt that the original purpose of the flat rate envelope was to have it stuffed full of loose pen blanks either.  Who knows what the original intent really was and whether, perhaps, it has evolved over time as the USPS has tried to better meet the needs/requirements of its customers.  Several credible members of IAP have posted in this thread that the "box in envelope" shipping method seems acceptable to the USPS so I will go with the crowd and continue to use this method.  I was just trying to do you a favor by suggesting this money-saving alternative.  If you are not comfortable with it, don't use it.....no skin off of my teeth.


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## Randy_ (Nov 19, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Rifleman1776_
> <br />.....The regs say the envelope must close normally.



That is certainly true; but they also say you can use a piece of tape to reinforce that closure.  You can't indiscriminately tape the whole package; but you can tape the closure.

I've sent and received numerous FR envelopes in this fashion and never had any flack from the PO.  Doesn't mean it won't happen tomorrow because some USPS employee interprets the rules differently; but my take is the chance is relatively small and not worth worrying about.


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## ctEaglesc (Nov 19, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Randy__
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...


Conversely you can buy a sturdy package(box) or wrap contents in corrugated cardboard and stuff them in the envelope.
Certainly putting a box designated for priority mail at the rate of $4.05 for 16 ounces in the envelope is "missuse".It states for the use of priority mail not flat rate.
Tell you what.
Send me a box of Texas sand withing over a pound the way you suggest with your return address and I will forward it to the Postmaster General unopened and ask what he thinks of your recommendation.
Skin off your teeth or not, what you are reccomending is breaking the law based on what it written on the side of the priority mailing box.If you don't believe me reas one of the boxes.


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## ctEaglesc (Nov 19, 2006)

Randy I just read your reply on another thread.
It seems you have different answers based on who you reply to  in the thread.
There's the credibility thing again


> _Originally posted by Randy__
> <br />Sounds like you are condoning people who break the law??  I feel sure you didn't mean to imply that!!


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## pete00 (Nov 19, 2006)

Still FUnny , it looks like we need to do what ever makes our local PO happy....

I remember seeing the quidelines on the USPS site, but cant seem to find them now.

ANy one have the link handy by any chance........thanks


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## Randy_ (Nov 19, 2006)

A misleading(and perhaps dishonest) spin, big bird, as the two activities being discussed are clearly different.  The "other" thread concerns an activity that the USPS obviously frowns upon as they took concrete action to end the practice.  While, on the other hand, what we are talking about here is a practice that evidently is OK with the USPS as evidenced by the fact that at least some of their employees have voluntarily and unilaterally recommended the practice.  The difference seems quite clear no matter how you try to twist it.  

The information is out there and you or any others are free to use it or not as you will. 

I'm done with this debate.  You are just wasting my time now and I have better things to do  Hope your face doesn't turn blue!!


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## MesquiteMan (Nov 19, 2006)

Um, Eagle...in case you missed it...flat rate IS Priority Mail.


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## Randy_ (Nov 19, 2006)

> _Originally posted by pete00_
> <br />.....ANy one have the link handy by any chance........thanks



Pete:  Is this what you are looking for??

http://www.usps.com/shipping/flatrate.htm?from=priority&page=flatrate


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## ctEaglesc (Nov 19, 2006)

> _Originally posted by MesquiteMan_
> <br />Um, Eagle...in case you missed it...flat rate IS Priority Mail.


Yep.
Envelopes 70 lbs
Boxes 16 ounces for the same rate.
I am sure it costs more to make the boxes.
I believe the boxes are unconditionally guarateed 110%.[]
If the box breaks in shipping they will replace the box at half the price you paid for it.
Evidently you don't undertand the reason for the way both of them are priced.


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## MesquiteMan (Nov 19, 2006)

Eagle, lay off on the guarantee, will you.  It was changed but still is the best guarantee out there.  Please stop harassing me.

And I understand EXACTLY what the local postmaster has told me and that is that both are priority mail and the BOX is being used in the shipping of Priority Mail.  HE is the one that said it is totally fine. Not me.


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## ctEaglesc (Nov 19, 2006)

> _Originally posted by MesquiteMan_
> <br />Eagle, lay off on the guarantee, will you.  It was changed but still is the best guarantee out there.  Please stop harassing me.
> 
> And I understand EXACTLY what the local postmaster has told me and that is that both are priority mail and the BOX is being used in the shipping of Priority Mail.  HE is the one that said it is totally fine. Not me.


How about the guy that signs his check.
As far as the "guarantee" I believe I can speculate anything I wish.
why are you so defensive?


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## MesquiteMan (Nov 19, 2006)

Sure, Eagle.  You can do anything you want.  You can say anything you want.  You can be anything you want.  The guarantee has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with this thread and is WAY out of place.


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## Rifleman1776 (Nov 19, 2006)

> _Originally posted by its_virgil_
> <br />My post office lady often suggests I put the boxes in a flat rate envelope if the postage on the box is more than the flat rate price. I sure hope the federal prison for postal abuse has a lathe and some pen kits and a computer so we can turn and still visit the pen forums.[]
> 
> Do a good turn daily!
> Don


I understand the use of the envelope Randy.
If you look on the side of the the boxes it says
"This Packaging is the property of the U.S. Postal Service asnd is provided solely for the use in sending <b>Priority Mail</b>
Misuse may be violation of Federal law.
The rate for the box is different than the rate for the envelope.
The rate for both is $4.05.BUT the box ships for that rate as long as the weight is less than a pound.
The rate for the envelope is up to 70 pounds.
Putting the box inside the envelope is using the box for a purpose  that it was not intended for.You ship in the box and it goes over a pound you pay more.


[/quote]
[/quote]

Don, you seem to be confusing apples with used oats. You can put any weight you want, or can get in, either the flat rate envelope or box. But the PO doesn't handle over 70 lbs, so the weight vs. charges is a mute point.
Even if you ship an empty flat rate box, the charge is $8.10. If you put in a 70 pound hunk of whatever, the rate is still $8.10.
Now...I'm confused. What is the argument all about anyway?[?][?]


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## wdcav1952 (Nov 19, 2006)

Yep Frank, it sure was easier when all you had to do was hand the Pony Express rider your mail. [][}][][}]


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## its_virgil (Nov 19, 2006)

Look at what I said. No confusion at all. I was talking about the PRIORiTY BOX not the flat rate box. The discussion started about putting a PRIORITY BOX inside of a flat rate envelop. Many of us do it. My PO workers even suggest I do it when the PRIORITY BOX's postage is greater than the flat rate envelop. 

What is the argument about? Ask Eagle. He's the one who wants to argue apples and used oats.

Do a good turn daily!
Don




> _Originally posted by Rifleman1776_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...


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## wdcav1952 (Nov 19, 2006)

Didn't Shakespeare write about this?

For the non-English majors - "Much Ado About Nothing."


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## ctEaglesc (Nov 19, 2006)

> _Originally posted by its_virgil_
> <br />Look at what I said. No confusion at all. I was talking about the PRIORiTY BOX not the flat rate box. The discussion started about putting a PRIORITY BOX inside of a flat rate envelop. Many of us do it. My PO workers even suggest I do it when the PRIORITY BOX's postage is greater than the flat rate envelop.
> 
> What is the argument about? Ask Eagle. He's the one who wants to argue apples and used oats.
> ...



I don't know where you went to school but if you read the side of a Priority box it is NOT a flat rate(subject to the contents being under 16 ounces for $4.05)
No where does it say up to the interprertation of who ever thinks it is OK to disregard this, nor is it subject to local postmasters intrepretation. Yes many do it.They use two "containers" to ship one package.
Some of us can read and I wonder about the others.Some can do math well(I don't I read and comprehend)


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## its_virgil (Nov 19, 2006)

All I will say is that it works and I will continue to do it until someone with more authority than you tells me to stop. My interpretation is different than yours and...oh yea, I forgot...that makes me automatically wrong. If I don't agree with eagle then I'm wrong. Been there before and I should have known better than to get into this argument. I would tell you where I went to school but I'll not give you the opportunity to run it in the ground also. I can read, I can do math and when I count my money after leaving the postoffice I come out ahead. End of conversation for me. I should have known better.
Do a good turn daily!
Don

[/quote]

I don't know where you went to school but if you read the side of a Priority box it is NOT a flat rate(subject to the contents being under 16 ounces for $4.05)
No where does it say up to the interprertation of who ever thinks it is OK to disregard this, nor is it subject to local postmasters intrepretation. Yes many do it.They use two "containers" to ship one package.
Some of us can read and I wonder about the others.Some can do math well(I don't I read and comprehend)
[/quote]
edited for a grammatical error correction: I do have a little schooling[]


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## Fangar (Nov 20, 2006)

How many PICKLES can you pack into a flat rate evelope?

[]

Fangar


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## wdcav1952 (Nov 20, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Fangar_
> <br />How many PICKLES can you pack into a flat rate evelope?
> 
> []
> ...



Good grief, don't you know how to run a poll!!!!  You didn't specific what kind of pickles, how they are cut, or whether or not kosher pickles can be packed without a box, preferably inside out, to protect them from non-kosher pickles!!  You guys on the Left Coast need to get your act together!!!!!!

[][][][][][][][]


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## Dario (Nov 20, 2006)

Here is my experience with shipping.

My local post office won't let me put tape on the flat rate envelope.  Usually they do it for me though, after they confirmed that it closes on its own.

There is no limit on weight on the flat rate box or flat rate envelope (other than the 70# stated above).  They usually have fun checking how much it would have cost me shipping it the regular Priority mail (not flat rate) and joke how the rules should be changed because I am saving more than $20.00 a box! [].  I just tell them that until then, I will continue to "exploit" the savings.  I also gently remind them that if not for the savings, I would probably ship another way or possibly use another carrier.  They agree.

I also avoid shipping with double packaging...I did it during the group buy though...to protect the pen kits so I am guilty.  That said, I too believe it is not proper (morally) to use the boxes in the envelope but from what I was told by my local PO...it is not illegal.  Again that is just interpretations.

I once was told of the "spirit of the law and the language of the law", sadly we've became experts of finding loop holes than trying to really go with its original intent.  Even if we do, interpretation can still be widely varied.  One person told me that the flat rate envelope was designed for documents (papers) only...he may actually be right but I inquired and was told that is not the case.

So.......

I am lost too...don't follow me LOL


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## Rifleman1776 (Nov 20, 2006)

FWIW, which is probably zip, I don't deal with the clerks at the PO window very often. I package at home and use the on-line USPS service to print my own mailing labels. I even built a bench with a shelf for boxes, tape and postage scale. I call it my shipping department. Since I live in a semi-rural area, I don't spend time or gasoline going to the post office. The rural carrier just picks up my stuff and it's gone. I do know that a lot of PO window clerks like to pontificate about regs and such, often without knowing what they are talking about. If I do have a problem I always ask for a supervisor and open the conversation by asking how to file a formal complaint. They don't want that and suddenly turn very helpful then do what is right.


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## Tangboy5000 (Nov 20, 2006)

Hehehe, but then I find it's best to ask for double the insured value, because that one's getting lost.


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