# Finishing without MM, possible?



## philb (May 14, 2009)

Hi,

Ive been using MM to finish my pens, but just wondering is there an equivalent way of doing it. I mean MM is great, but if I could save some time and still get the same finish that would be better!

Want the same degree of polished surface and durability of finish, just want to save some time the CA finishes have been applied! Ive heard mentioned that sanding to 600grit and then various cutting compounds, but haven't sen any direct comparison between the qualities of MM vs. Compounds?

Any help/info would be great!

PHIL


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## NewLondon88 (May 14, 2009)

Depends on the material. With some pieces I've been able to wet sand to 400, 
then use EEE and PlastX to get a nice finish.. but I've had to do the last steps more
than once, so I'm not sure if I saved any time.


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## nightowl (May 14, 2009)

I used MM pads for a while.  THen I found out that if you add any beads or coves to you pens it is not easy to use the mm pads on them.  I then  asked the just about the same question you have here.  YoYo Spin guided me to the Beal buffing system.  It is great.  I sand ot 400 grit usually then buff.  I can't find any marks on the pen even when using magnification.  I also bought some of the EEE cream polish.  That does a good job also. Depending on how well I turned and sanded the blanks, sometimes that that is all I need.  Try the buffing system though.  I think you will be well satisfied.


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## tim self (May 14, 2009)

Ditto.  All my wood are 400 then buffing wheel.  Checked and if clean, BLO/CA.  Acrylic is always MM


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## mick (May 14, 2009)

I never use MM with my CA finishes in a long time. After my CA finish has cured I start at 400grit and sand thru 800 then use HUt plastic polish. I've compared and can't tell a difference.


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## KenV (May 14, 2009)

I do not want to start a "holy war" but Abralon pads and either buff or polish gets a nice polish.   I usually touch with renwax because it keep finger prints down at a minor decrease in gloss.

Abranet is a nice sanding material to 400 - I like to use a backing pad with it.


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## texasfootball21 (May 14, 2009)

This method has become quite popular. I tried it myself, just as described in the video, and I thought it worked very well.

Fast, easy, and no sand paper required.

http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=43539&highlight=utube

Good luck.


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## esears (May 14, 2009)

texasfootball21 said:


> This method has become quite popular. I tried it myself, just as described in the video, and I thought it worked very well.
> 
> Fast, easy, and no sand paper required.
> 
> ...



I agree, this is usually how I tend to finish all the pens I make now. Granted I don't do much bead/cove work, but I'm pretty impressed with how easy and durable the finishes are. I typically do about 5 coats after sanding to 12000 with MM.


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## NewLondon88 (May 15, 2009)

I think the bead/cove issue may depend on whether you're using the MM pads or
sheets. I have no trouble getting the sheets into small areas if I use something
behind them (ex. edge of a credit card)


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## GouletPens (May 15, 2009)

Use the first few grits of MM or abralon, then beall buff. You'll never go back!


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## wdcav1952 (May 15, 2009)

Phil,

My answer is a bit different than the other ones so far.  

Are you satisfied with the finishing results you are getting with your current method of finishing?

How long do you spend finishing a pen?  

How much time do you think you can save by changing your present method of finishing a pen?  

Once you have all of this information in hand, is it worth changing a method that is successful?


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## wolftat (May 17, 2009)

Whats the rush? I like to take my time and feel the finish forming while I work it. This is supposed to be a relaxing hobby for most of us, why speed through it?


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## philb (May 18, 2009)

wdcav1952 said:


> Phil,
> 
> My answer is a bit different than the other ones so far.
> 
> ...



Very satisfied with the results! takes maybe 15-20 mins from first CA coat till polished?

Was questioning the time saved, as I had an order for 30 Cigar pens and if I could save 10 mins on each pen then quiet a saving in time! 

But don't want to sacrifice time for a finish that wont keep its polished surface. I know how well a MM'd surface stands up to daily use, but not sure of a purely polished one. Would have to test it out as well, but im guessing a polished surface is a polished surface! As long as your down to the same micron level then theirs not much different except for how you got there?!

Cheers for the comments!

PHIL


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## Paul in OKC (May 22, 2009)

I didn't have micro-mesh until recently. Impressed, sure. 
can I do without it, yes. Sand through 600-800 or so, and........


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## Texatdurango (May 22, 2009)

My response would be be similar to Cav's.

Personally I enjoy my time spent in the shop so time spent on an order, be it one pen or a dozen probably would'nt make sense to someone who is trying to crank out as many as possible in a given amount of time.

That said, even while I have all the time in the world, I do not use micro mesh anymore, haven't for almost a year now as I have found that I can get just as good a finish sanding and buffing as using micromesh.  

CA finishes as well as acrylics and ebonite will get sanded to 600 abranet then either 800 or 1,000 grit silicone carbide then over to the buffer which I use a GENTLE touch to bring out a shine, not try to push the pen through the buffing pad, which I have seen a few folks do.


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## btboone (May 22, 2009)

I do the same.  I treat acrylic like metal; wet sand to 320 using swift side to side motions, sand perpendicular to the machining marks by hand if necessary with a fine 320 grit sanding sponge from Home Depot, and polish straight from there.  I use a worn 8" cotton wheel at 3600 rpms and polish at 45 degree angles.  It takes some technique to do it that quickly and to do it correctly, but not everyone is aiming for fast.


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## RussFairfield (May 23, 2009)

The answer is, "Yes", you can finish a pen without using Micro-Mesh. If you were to look at a chart of grit designations vs. particle size, you would find that 12,000 Micro-Mesh and 2000-grit sandpaper are both in the range of a 1-micron particle.

Like Paul, MM has only recently come into my life. I bought some when I ran out of fine sandpaper, and I wanted to see what all of the fuss was about. I have continued to use it because MM is easier to purchase than 2000-grit sandpaper. I can get the MM at Woodcraft, and I have to locate an automotive paint store that carries the sandpaper. I have no idea of the long term cost comparison, but the sanding results are the same.


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## philb (May 23, 2009)

Texatdurango said:


> My response would be be similar to Cav's.
> 
> Personally I enjoy my time spent in the shop so time spent on an order, be it one pen or a dozen probably would'nt make sense to someone who is trying to crank out as many as possible in a given amount of time.
> 
> ...




Thanks for the reply! So what do you use for buffing? The Beall system and is usually compounds? Or something like Huts Plastic Polish? 

Had a quick look at your site and have to say that if a finish looks as good as yours without MM then why bother! I have been using it from the start, was just trying to experiment with some other styles of finishing techniques! As always when you have something that works you always want to mess with it!

PHIL


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## Rick_G (May 23, 2009)

I tried micromesh and after overheating the first pieces I haven't used it since.  I'll sand up to 600 grit then CA/BLO finish.  Once the CA is built up to where I want it I will lightly sand with 1500 grit and sometimes 25000 grit.  (Found it at the last wood show) I then polish with an auto body polish that has scratch and grit remover in it.


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## Texatdurango (May 26, 2009)

philbaldwin said:


> Thanks for the reply! So what do you use for buffing? The Beall system and is usually compounds? Or something like Huts Plastic Polish?
> ...
> 
> PHIL


I bought the triple buff setup from PSI a few years ago when they had it on sale for around $45.  It fits my Jet mini lathe just fine and I removed the center buff allowing me more maneuvering room between buffs since I only use tripoli and white diamond anyway.  I buy my buffs and buffing compounds at: http://www.caswellplating.com/buffs/

95% of the time I will go straight to the white rouge wheel from sanding but occasionally I will start with tripoli especially if I stopped sanding at 600 grit.  I also started using the blue rouge compound and think it adds that extra bit of sparkle to my pens.   I have also found that giving an assembled pen an extra touch up on a buff with the blue rouge works great since it doesn't cut into or remove the plated parts.  The blue rouge is of course a secret of mine so please don't mention it to anyone else!


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## cnirenberg (May 26, 2009)

Texatdurango said:


> I have also found that giving an assembled pen an extra touch up on a buff with the blue rouge works great since it doesn't cut into or remove the plated parts.  The blue rouge is of course a secret of mine so please don't mention it to anyone else!



OOPs.  The cat is out of the bag now.  I checked that site out. Thanks for sharing George, its very informative.  I like the finish that the White Diamond gives with the Beall System and it looks like the blue rouge will take the finish just it a little farther along.  Sweet.


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