# 220V = 110V + 110V



## Jgrden (Jan 16, 2011)

I know I am going to get all kinds of remarks about safety, but I have a need to know and put on thick skin. 

I have 220V line that is located under the kitchen counter. WE purchased a used GE 110V convection oven. I want to install a 220V out let and plug a 110V splitter into it so that the oven can be plugged into one side. The 220V ran a Jacuzzi until we sold it and ran it back into the house. In fact it originally was used to power a kitchen range. 

I do not want to install a new breaker. I do not want to hard wire the units by splitting the lines unless I am very clear on what I am doing. 

Your thoughts??


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## Russianwolf (Jan 16, 2011)

If the unit can handle 220v then this will work http://www.amazon.com/Universal-World-Travel-Charger-Adapter/dp/B001MGUB9Q/ref=pd_cp_e_3

If you need 110v only then you need a converter like this 
http://www.amazon.com/INTERNATIONAL...?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1295238834&sr=1-67

The quick answer is yes. See the link. There are even plugs that can be installed in the wall that can accept both types (one of either 110v or 220v) I saw them all over the hotel rooms while in Asia.


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## jaeger (Jan 16, 2011)

Call an Electrician.


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## Jgrden (Jan 16, 2011)

jaeger said:


> Call an Electrician.


I know, I know. 

By the way, I am still using your finishing process with huge success.


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## turner.curtis (Jan 16, 2011)

Yes, 220 is a Leg A to Neutral, and Leg B to Neutral so you can do what you are asking although from a safety perspective I am not sure how the breaker would handle the unbalanced load. Speaking of unbalanced load, you may also want to pay attention to which leg you end up putting the oven on as to try to keep the legs of your incoming service as balanced as possible.


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## Jgrden (Jan 16, 2011)

turner.curtis said:


> Yes, 220 is a Leg A to Neutral, and Leg B to Neutral so you can do what you are asking although from a safety perspective I am not sure how the breaker would handle the unbalanced load. Speaking of unbalanced load, you may also want to pay attention to which leg you end up putting the oven on as to try to keep the legs of your incoming service as balanced as possible.


Thought so. Is White the common line? The other 110V will not be used. Just sit there with nothing in it.


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## jaeger (Jan 16, 2011)

Jgrden said:


> jaeger said:
> 
> 
> > Call an Electrician.
> ...




I have admired your one piece cigars lately. Pretty cool!
Good luck on the move coming up soon.


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## Displaced Canadian (Jan 16, 2011)

If you aren't not sure what you are doing you are either going to burn your house of fry your new oven. You are going to have to change your breaker and depending on when your house was wired the 220 volt circuit may not have a neutral line. I'm a specialty electrician and there is no way in hell I would even try do this.


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## PaulCNCMann (Jan 16, 2011)

What breaker feeds this now? Size?
What breaker do you need? Amps needed by new oven?

No adapter like posted in this thread will work assuming you're in north America?

More information is needed to safely and properly answer this question.


Paul


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## PaulCNCMann (Jan 17, 2011)

Russianwolf said:
			
		

> If the unit can handle 220v then this will work http://www.amazon.com/Universal-World-Travel-Charger-Adapter/dp/B001MGUB9Q/ref=pd_cp_e_3
> 
> If you need 110v only then you need a converter like this
> http://www.amazon.com/INTERNATIONAL-VOLTAGE-CONVERTER-appliances-overseas/dp/B000WQ0MTG/ref=sr_1_67?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1295238834&sr=1-67
> ...




220 in Europe is much different than 220 here...

These will not work...

They get 220 from 1 hot + 1 neutral

We get it from 1 hot + 1 hot!


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## jttheclockman (Jan 17, 2011)

Whatever you do don't do this. Forget any adapters. That circuit is not set up to seperate the voltages. As I shake my head. 

"I do not want to install a new breaker. I do not want to hard wire the units by splitting the lines unless I am very clear on what I am doing. 

Your thoughts?? "

This job is clearly not for you. Higher an electrician.


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## ctubbs (Jan 17, 2011)

Speaking as a master electrician,  DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU PROPOSE.  Yes, it is possible to split a 220 line into 2 110 circuits.  That is how most all houses in the USA are wired, however, ech circuit must have its own correctly sized breaker/fuse to protect the wiring and appliances attached to the circuit.  What you are thinking about doing is dangerous at best.  Most dedicated 220 circuits are run with 2 hots and 1 ground.  The ground is never to be used as a current caring conductor.  If the ground wire were used as a neutral, then everything tied to the grounding buss in the panel could then become hot to the unbalanced voltage.  That could be as high as 110 volts.  By the way, more people are killed with 110 voltage than all others combined each year here.  Once more, please I beg you, call a qualified electrician.  Respectfully.
Charles
member IBEW Local 816 35 yrs


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## Smitty37 (Jan 17, 2011)

*Maybe*

How many conductors in the wire---if there are 4 (Hot A, Hot B, Neutral and Ground) you might be able to do it without burning down your house, but you ought to know what you are doing.  The breaker is likely to be too high amperage for the oven.  Is it really that hard to just run a new wire?


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## PenMan1 (Jan 17, 2011)

Since the 220 outlet SHOULD be on its own circuit, why couldn't you just pop out the 220 breaker, replace it with a 110 breaker, wire nut off the additional wire (if there are 4), move the "white" wire over to the "white" side of the panel and replace the outlet with a heavy duty (20 amp) 110 outlet? You didn't mention needing 220, only 110, so I don't really see the problem.

Depending on who makes your panel, the cost of the breaker and outlet would be about $10. The wire that carried the 220 (likely at least 12 or 10 gauge) would allow you to put in 20 amp service to the oven. As long as you've got the 110 convection oven in the range opening, you wouldn't be able to use the 220? When you buy a new 220 oven, just put the circuit back to 220.

$10 to NOT burn down my house, seems like a reasonable amount to me. With all due respect, it sounds like you are going out of your way to make this UNSAFE. There IS NO really safe way to do what you are attempting.


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## Scotty (Jan 17, 2011)

I would not do it.  While you can make it work, I would not consider it safe.  If something goes wrong, the breaker will likely not trip like it is supposed to, causing the circuit to overheat.  Not a good idea.


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## Russell Eaton (Jan 17, 2011)

Ifyou do decide to go through with this idea. Please move the pen making material outside. You are asking for trouble.


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## Monty (Jan 17, 2011)

If you are moving in a month or so, why would you want to do this? It definitely will not pass inspection when you sell.


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## PaulCNCMann (Jan 17, 2011)

ctubbs said:
			
		

> Speaking as a master electrician,  DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU PROPOSE.  Yes, it is possible to split a 220 line into 2 110 circuits.  That is how most all houses in the USA are wired, however, ech circuit must have its own correctly sized breaker/fuse to protect the wiring and appliances attached to the circuit.  What you are thinking about doing is dangerous at best.  Most dedicated 220 circuits are run with 2 hots and 1 ground.  The ground is never to be used as a current caring conductor.  If the ground wire were used as a neutral, then everything tied to the grounding buss in the panel could then become hot to the unbalanced voltage.  That could be as high as 110 volts.  By the way, more people are killed with 110 voltage than all others combined each year here.  Once more, please I beg you, call a qualified electrician.  Respectfully.
> Charles
> member IBEW Local 816 35 yrs



Speaking as one Master Electrician to another.

There would be nothing wrong with turning this into a split receptacle, if it had a neutral and if the breaker was sized properly.

Again more info would be needed, and I'll agree he should hire an electrician.


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## monophoto (Jan 17, 2011)

Speaking as an electrical engineer - what you want to do is theoretically possible.  However, there are some issues that you need to consider:

1.  What is size of the conductor comprising this circuit?  What is the rating of the breaker in this circuit?  What is the rating of the electric range?  These ratings MUST be coordinated.  If the breaker rating is too low, there is a risk that the breaker will trip frequently and unnecessarily (and spoil your dinner).  If the conductor size is too small, there is a fire hazard.

2.  There is no way to solve this problem without some kind of hard-wiring.  As a minimum, you will need to replace the existing receptacle with a single-pole receptacle that matches the plug on the range.  I'm not aware of any commercial 'splitter' that will do what you want to do.  And the travel adaptors that have been mentioned won't work  - the pin-out patterns match won't match either the existing receptacle  or the range plug, and they are rated for currents that are much smaller than what your range will draw and therefore would be a fire hazard.

As a minimum, you will need to replace the existing receptacle with one that matches the plug on the range.  If you don't know what you are doing, you should hire an electrician.


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## Gulfcoast (Jan 17, 2011)

John --

--- you can ask at   

http://www.ask-the-electrician.com/

  Joe


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## jskeen (Jan 17, 2011)

Sounds like you are not using the 220 service for anything, so why do you not want to replace the breaker?  I agree, it can be done, but no licensed electrician will touch the job with a ten foot pole, and anybody else is liable to do it wrong and burn the house down.  You can certainly use the wire, just add in a new 110 breaker, move the appropriate wires over to it, clearly label all wires on both ends, and install the new plug.  That way you could move it back if necessary.  The unused 220v breaker can happily sit in the box with nothing attached to it.


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## Chasper (Jan 17, 2011)

Pardon me for half hijacking the thread, but I have a 110 + 110 = 220 story.

Back when I was young and bold and thought I could do most anything (as opposed to today when I’m old and bold and still think I can do anything) I helped a friend do some 220 wiring for the lights on his tennis court.  Since we didn’t know what 220 was we ran two 110 line together and strung them between the lights; it made sense at the time.

After the bulbs blew up and the electrician arrived, he looked it over and said, “your electrician ran two 110s together, no wonder it isn’t working.”  We didn’t tell him who our previous electrician was, but I’m pretty sure he knew.


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## BKelley (Jan 17, 2011)

Before doing anything of this sort without a electrican, make sure your homeowners insurance is paid up


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## Jgrden (Jan 17, 2011)

jskeen said:


> Sounds like you are not using the 220 service for anything, so why do you not want to replace the breaker?  I agree, it can be done, but no licensed electrician will touch the job with a ten foot pole, and anybody else is liable to do it wrong and burn the house down.  You can certainly use the wire, just add in a new 110 breaker, move the appropriate wires over to it, clearly label all wires on both ends, and install the new plug.  That way you could move it back if necessary.  The unused 220v breaker can happily sit in the box with nothing attached to it.


The breaker that is in the box is 50/50. So you are saying to pull the breaker, put a single 110 in and use one wire and the common.


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## Bellsy (Jan 17, 2011)

Jgrden said:


> The breaker that is in the box is 50/50. So you are saying to pull the breaker, put a single 110 in and use one wire and the common.



The biggest part of this is "the breaker" itself. Yes the wire gauge plays a part in it as well, but my first change would be to place a proper breaker in the box and run it off of one leg of the panel as it should be. 

If in doubt, read your code book......and get an electrician involved.

Dave


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## KenV (Jan 17, 2011)

The challenge is that the clauses in most home owners policies do not cover such an adventure if code is not followed -   that includes injury as well as damage to property.

Read your policy carefully -- and as has been noted, an inspector looking at the property for a buyer will require it be done correctly  -- then costs begin.


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## Jgrden (Jan 17, 2011)

Methinks I am capable of doing myself, correctly. Sounds like we cut off power to the house, pull the breaker, put two 20amps in, use one wire and the common to fire up one receptacle and the other wire, plus common to fire up the other.


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## jskeen (Jan 17, 2011)

Jgrden said:


> Methinks I am capable of doing myself, correctly. Sounds like we cut off power to the house, pull the breaker, put two 20amps in, use one wire and the common to fire up one receptacle and the other wire, plus common to fire up the other.



In theory, that's all there is to it.  Of course in theory bumblebees can't fly, and the south should have won the war.  If the box is completely full, you can pull the big breaker and put in the new one (or two)  but if you have an extra space on the rails, I'd just leave the old one in, take the wires out of it, and run one hot to the new breaker and the neutral to the neutral bus, and label the other hot one and wirenut it off.


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## jttheclockman (Jan 17, 2011)

Man this is getting confusing. The one thing I will say. If you are planning on using a duplex receptacle and splitting the circuits as you mentioned you better make sure you break the connecting tab on the hot side of the receptacle. This receptacle now must be marked to indicate there are 2 hot wires to it. So someone doesn't come by and shut one circuit off and thinking the outlet is dead. If you are only using one hot leg then the other must be removed in the panel and wirenuted both at the outlet and the panel. The wires are going to be too large to fit under the terminals so now you are adding a splice to the equation. You need to tap off with a #12 wire for both hot and neutral to match the 20 amp breaker you are now installing.  You don't say if this is a single gang box or a double gang box. If again you are planing on using 2 seperate outlets in this box it again must be marked accordingly. This is not a practical application so all safety measures must be taken. 

Notation: I take no responsibility for posting this info.


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## DocStram (Jan 18, 2011)

This thread is like watching a train wreck.

It reminds me of the list of "famous last words"

"Honey, didn't that post in IAP say that _this one is the neutral line_???"


"Hire an electrician."


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## jttheclockman (Jan 18, 2011)

DocStram said:


> This thread is like watching a train wreck.
> 
> It reminds me of the list of "famous last words"
> 
> ...


 
I agree with this. Usually this is what happens when electrical questions get asked on lots of forums. I try to stay out of them but when I read potential hazzards I have to say something. The propsed idea has code violations in it that would not pass inspection. But some people are just determined so hopefully there is some good info in there that will prevent injuries or property loss. Electricity is nothing to be taken lightly. I read so many times that fires are caused by faulty wiring. Well alot of times those faults are homeowner 's doings. All I can say I am out of this and good luck with the results.


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## GaryMGg (Jan 18, 2011)

_Adding fuel to the fire and no value whatsoever....._

*and make sure you capture this on video so we can enjoy it over popcorn and beer.*

:biggrin:* :wink:*


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## JerrySambrook (Jan 18, 2011)

Dibs on the new snowthrower he just purchased


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## Smitty37 (Jan 18, 2011)

*If it were my house*

Truth is there are at least a dozen of us here who could take one look at the feed wire and know exactly what had to be done. I'm thinking that if you had a range on that circut you probably have #6 or #8 wires which are too darn big for a 110v 20a outlet and will be difficult to connect. 

If there are enough wires 2 hots 1 neutral and 1 ground. there is no need to split anything and nothing to be gained by doing so, You don't have to use them just because they're there and you gain nothing by doing so if you only have one outlet on the circuit.

Just disconnect on of the hots at the breaker box and cut back both ends of the disconnected hot wire. Replace the double (220v) breaker with 2 20 amp single breakers (you shouldn't leave open holes in your breaker box) and you have a 110v circuit snd a spare 20 amp breaker.


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## ldb2000 (Jan 18, 2011)

GaryMGg said:


> _Adding fuel to the fire and no value whatsoever....._
> 
> *and make sure you capture this on video so we can enjoy it over popcorn and beer.*
> 
> :biggrin:* :wink:*


 
HONEY !!! Grab me a beer and come watch this , there's gonna be some video :biggrin:


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## Smitty37 (Jan 18, 2011)

*Not likely to be rejected*

There might be code violations - depends on what he actually does - but they would be unlikely to be detected by a house inspector who would see nothing but a 110v outlet (if it isn't hidden) and 20 amp circuit breakers in the breaker box.  

It isn't a code violation per se to have unused conductors in a cable or to have a breaker smaller than would be allowed by the size of the wire, so he can probably do something without violating any code.  




jttheclockman said:


> DocStram said:
> 
> 
> > This thread is like watching a train wreck.
> ...


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## LandfillLumber (Jan 18, 2011)

Do you have a plug close by you can jump off of and put a plug in for the stove.This is not code as the stove needs its own circuit but that is what I would do and just leave that 220 plug alone.Take it for what its worth.I would not use any small converters as that is a fire waiting to happen.My two cents.Victor


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## Smitty37 (Jan 19, 2011)

*not 60Hz either*



PaulCNCMann said:


> Russianwolf said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
European power is also not 60Hz as is the USA it's 50Hz


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## widows son (Jan 19, 2011)

To the guy who wants the snow blower, no snow in Conroe TX. It snows about once every 5 years in Houston but I bet he has some nice tools.  

When I bought my house in 2005 we had a similar situation. The breakers were easy, new wire was more work. Installed 2 110v breakers (used one) and ran new wire to the receptacle for the microwave. Work done by yours truly supervised by a friend of mine who is a licensed electrician. He did not get dirty running the new wire in the attic, I did. Cover plate for the old 220V box after removing receptacle. Total cost was about $40.00 for materials. BTW I used Ground Fault breakers for all of the new circuits in the house including the shop and kitchen.


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## jttheclockman (Jan 19, 2011)

widows son said:


> To the guy who wants the snow blower, no snow in Conroe TX. It snows about once every 5 years in Houston but I bet he has some nice tools.
> 
> When I bought my house in 2005 we had a similar situation. The breakers were easy, new wire was more work. Installed 2 110v breakers (used one) and ran new wire to the receptacle for the microwave. Work done by yours truly supervised by a friend of mine who is a licensed electrician. He did not get dirty running the new wire in the attic, I did. Cover plate for the old 220V box after removing receptacle. Total cost was about $40.00 for materials. BTW I used Ground Fault breakers for all of the new circuits in the house including the shop and kitchen.



 
 
Are you using ground fault or arc fault breakers???


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## ctubbs (Jan 19, 2011)

The new code requires Arc Fault in nearly all residential installations.  That said, there are Arc Fault recepticals now on the market that are approved just as the GFIs are.  Also, whenever a regular recepticle is replaced now, a tamper resistant one shall be used for replacement.  This as soon as your jurisdiction adopts the new code.  All this was taught at the latest licensing CEU class, not my ideas.  Just makes me glad I am about ready to hang the tools on the wall.
Charles


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## Jgrden (Jan 19, 2011)

jttheclockman said:


> widows son said:
> 
> 
> > To the guy who wants the snow blower, no snow in Conroe TX. It snows about once every 5 years in Houston but I bet he has some nice tools.
> ...


Sounds like it had better be ARC FAult breakers. Right ??


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## jttheclockman (Jan 20, 2011)

Jgrden said:


> jttheclockman said:
> 
> 
> > widows son said:
> ...


 

No, he said he used GFCI on all new circuits in his house and if so he is not following up to date codes. Certain areas you need GFCI and other areas like bedrooms and living areas you need AFCI. Then you get into municipality codes and that can be a whole other can of worms. You can not generalize when it comes to doing electrical work at all. The other thing that stands out is the $40 for material. It would cost $40 just for the copper wire today at least here on the east cost. .


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## Smitty37 (Jan 20, 2011)

*You Sait It*



jttheclockman said:


> Jgrden said:
> 
> 
> > jttheclockman said:
> ...


 
Boy you said it, they can range from none (all jurisdictions do not apply electrical codes) to very complex. When I built a house, there was no local code and no local inspection - so I wired to the national code in force at the time. The power company inspected only to the input to the breaker panel (before they would provide power) - didn't care about the actual house wiring at all.


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## widows son (Jan 20, 2011)

There is a Habit for Humanity Rehab store not too far from here. With some time, patience and planning you can save lots of money buying there instead of big box stores. I think the roll of Romex was $10.00. It may have been 90ft instead of 100ft but it was enough for the job. I know time is money if you are a contractor, I wasn't in a hurry.


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