# How to minimize CATCHES



## Texatdurango (Aug 16, 2012)

In another thread that I just replied to (http://www.penturners.org/forum/f13/tried-turning-between-centers-100576/) I touched on a topic that I don't believe I have ever seen discussed on the forum so what say we talk about it and compare some opinions!

How many times have we heard something akin to.... "I was almost finished turning the blank then WHAM... I got a CATCH and a chunk came flying off".  Every time I read one of these posts I can't help but think... *"How far was their tool rest from the blank when it happened?"*

The closer your tool rest is to the blank, the less likely you are to get a catch...... regardless of what kind of cutting tool you are using!  The farther the tool rest is from the blank, the greater the chance is of the tool trying to grab and take a nose dive over the tool rest!

Since the majority of us are self taught through trial and error with little formal training, how many of you pay attention to the distance between the tool rest and the blank* or even know that it matters?*

I taught myself how to (incorrectly) use a skew and at a local turning club meeting was complaining about what a crappy tool the skew was and how it caused catches one after another.  So, the next weekend a seasoned turner invited me to his shop for some one-on one instruction and he taught me how to properly use a skew.  When showing me how, he had the tool rest about 1/8" from the work piece.  At that distance it is almost impossible to get a catch unless you really try.  After a little practice, I learned the importance of tool control, which includes the all important tool rest position!

So, is anyone guilty of starting out with the tool rest in the proper position then not moving the rest closer in as they turn down the blank, thus widening the gap between rest and part?


http://www.penturners.org/forum/f13/tried-turning-between-centers-100576/


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## nava1uni (Aug 16, 2012)

I have also learned this lesson.  I have also had tool rests made for me that allow me to get closer to the work when working with a chuck or tailstock.  The rests are handy when doing miniature work.  This is a good topic.


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## PenMan1 (Aug 16, 2012)

EXCELLENT POST, GEORGE!

I do mostly production turning and a "catch" ruins my day. I use almost exclusively "alternative materials, and don't have the luxury of using HSS tools. A catch with a carbide cutter can mean tossing a blank that was almost "money" and STARTING OVER, out of production cycle. This means cutting a new blank, drilling again, back painting the hole- AGAIN, waiting for paint and glue to dry - AGAIN! In short, a HUGE waste of production  time.

My methodology (and I certainly DON'T advocate it for the leisure turner) is somewhat different than most here, simply because I need to make a LOT of product in a short period of time.

Once all of the square blanks have been cast, dried, cut and drilled, I take them to the "jigged"router table, and "nose over" the blanks to almost round. I do it this way simply because I can "round over" about 50 blanks in about 5 minutes.

THEN, when I mount them on the lathe (and with razors and "Sierra" that's three at the time), I move the tool rest as close as humanly possible.  Since the blanks are "mostly" round", that is almost always Less than 1/8 inch. I RARELY get a catch.

In our shop, my wife and I laughingly refer to a "catch" as being one mad monkey shutting down the entire circus.

I don't think I've ever seen a more relevant post here....AND it's such a simply thing! MOVE YOU TOOL REST AS CLOSE AND AND SQUARELY AS POSSIBLE. AND USE YOUR SKEW ....As a SKEW, NOT a scraper.

Thanks again for the relevant and thoughtful information!


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## Displaced Canadian (Aug 16, 2012)

I find with a woodchuck it is hard to keep the rest that close because the front has a taper to it. Any ideas to help with that?


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## PenMan1 (Aug 16, 2012)

Displaced Canadian said:


> I find with a woodchuck it is hard to keep the rest that close because the front has a taper to it. Any ideas to help with that?



Ok, not to derail George's thread (because it is SUCH a good one), but have you ever used a Woodchuck upside down?

This would make another GREAT thread! A beveled edge cuts on Both sides of the bevel......or maybe I just cheap

Respectfully submitted.


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## InvisibleMan (Aug 16, 2012)

Getting a small (narrow) enough tool rest for TBCing smaller blanks is a huge necessity.  The stock rest on my lathe won't get anywhere near a sierra blank when turning between centers.  I bought it for small kitless parts, but use it all the time now.


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## Xander (Aug 16, 2012)

I use the Pen Pro and as stated in another post it's impossible to get the tool rest 1/8" away and still have good support for the tool.  I do move the rest as close as possible and readjust as needed. Rarely have a catch and have never messed up a blank, but I'm sure one of these days it will happen. Oh wait, I did have an experimental blank crack. It was a wood/acrylic segmented blank and one of the segments came away. This was due to an improper glue coverage, not a catch.


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## Daniel (Aug 16, 2012)

I have not thought about it in so long I never really realized how often I adjust my rest. But I completely agree. Keeping it close is critical. Certainly during those final touches. THE material is beginning to get very thin on many pens. Turn some slimlines it will help perfect your technique. Nothing like shaving wood down to veneer thickness to revel any flaws in your habits. Then turning some of the thicker bodied pens seems easy.

I will repeat the advice, Use a skew as a skew. Keep the tools sharp which has always been an echo rebounding around here. We can now add to that, Control it. If anything keeping the rest close is accomplishing just that. It is giving you control of the tool. You would not try to draw a straight line without a straight edge. Don't try to freehand your turning either.


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## OKLAHOMAN (Aug 16, 2012)

Once more George has posted one of the most relevant post made in years. I never think about it but I move my rest 2-3 times every blank. It was Eagle a number of years ago that told me that if I wanted to turn one of his blanks I'd better keep my rest as close as possible.


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## Simplex (Aug 16, 2012)

This is a great topic.  Thanks for bringing it up.  I think it is one of those things that we all experience but may not give much thought to.  I use the Pen Pro, too, and it is difficult to achieve the 1/8" distance that tool.  However, Ituink he overall message is to get as close as reasonably possible.

George- I'm giving you a new nickname:  "The Professor".  All of your posts seem to hold a certain amount of educational value.  Thanks!


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## swanny70 (Aug 16, 2012)

This is one of the best posts I have seen in a long time!  This type of post really help us newbies!


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## alamocdc (Aug 16, 2012)

Believe it or not, George, tool rest distance is about the only thing I remembered about turning from my high school woodshop class all those years ago. Excellent post!


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## Texatdurango (Aug 16, 2012)

swanny70 said:


> This is one of the best posts I have seen in a long time! * This type of post really help us newbies!*


And that's exactly why I posted it!  

I got to wondering how many here are like I was when I started......I bought a lathe at a Wood Show, picked up a handful of turning tools based on suggestions from some of the turners doing live demos at the show, picked up a few odds and ends, went home, plugged in the lathe and started figuring out which way was up and what did what.  Actually a pretty dangerous way of teaching myself how to turn but I managed.

It wasn't until I joined a local turning club that I started learning the proper way of using the tools so sharing this little tidbit might just help a few newbies from ruining some nice blanks AND keep them from getting hurt when their tool takes a nose dive and tries to wrap around the spindle turning itself into an over sized egg beater.

I thought the title of an old Clint Eastwood western would be appropriate..... :biggrin:


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## Wildman (Aug 16, 2012)

I use a 6” comfort tool rest for small work and pens although 4” might be better for pens. Yes, a bit pricey but great tool rest with lifetime guarantee. Bought mine here before price increase, so shop around for best price.

Packard Woodworks: The Woodturner's Source: Robust Tool Rests

T-Bar style rest nice too, but recommend making your own or having one made vice buying bar and post.

If your skew does not have rounded (rolled) edges take it to the grinder and put them on all four sides. Not sure how to do that on oval skew chisel.

Most catches with a skew come when lose bevel support, so ride the bevel and do not force or rush the cut. Easiest way to learn how is with lathe off holding skew in one hand and rotate work with the other.


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## Curly (Aug 16, 2012)

I agree with your advise and in conjunction would add that the height of the rest needs to be adjusted to keep the tool contact positioned at or above the centreline of the turning. You are probably doing it already without realizing it. :wink:


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## 1080Wayne (Aug 16, 2012)

Excellent post , and a topic I have been debating with myself recently . Some older large lathes (eg my 12x48 Record) won`t allow a round bar tool rest to get closer than about 1/2 inch from a Sierra . To compensate I use a Skogger , which is rigid enough to bridge the gap without giving me an excessive amount of catches , but not as good as it would be with the proper gap . Time to make a new tool rest holder .


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## juteck (Aug 16, 2012)

Also, keep your tool rest free of nicks, glue, etc. -- maintain your tool rest like you do the rest of your lathe and other woodturning tools.  A smooth toolrest will let the tools glide, helping with better tool control and preventing catches.


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## Texatdurango (Aug 16, 2012)

juteck said:


> Also, *keep your tool rest free of nicks*, glue, etc. -- maintain your tool rest like you do the rest of your lathe and other woodturning tools.  A smooth toolrest will let the tools glide, helping with better tool control and preventing catches.



*Good advice!*  Especially when turning small items where you want to shave off a few thousandths at a time.  Visiting friends shops, I have seen some tool rests that look like they are used as a vice to clamp things on when welding! 

*How many use wax on their tool rests? * I don't know if it's considered a "trick" or not but a wise old man who has been turning as long as I have been alive (and is probably the best wood turner in Texas) suggested rubbing a candle over the rest to make sure you have a smooth gliding surface.  Being a snow skier, I just happened to have some hard ski wax which I use regularly on my rests.


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## skiprat (Aug 16, 2012)

This great thread by George and also the Workshop Rage' one by Todd made me smile.  Although not often because of my tool rest distance, I find that 99.9% of *all* my failures are purely because of laziness and complacency. 

You get half way through a job and you know the tool desperately needs sharpening, but you think....''It'll do till I finish''

I keep many of my little creations as gentle reminders. :biggrin:


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## Wood Butcher (Aug 16, 2012)

I chuckled a little when I read this thread because of my earliest experience with a lathe.  I was at a hardware store and they had this really small lathe for under $100 with tools and all.  I bought one and took it home and fired it up.  The tools were small, maybe 10 or 11 inches long and looking back they were not sharp.  I had never been in front of a lathe but was pretty **** sure I could do this.  A small block of wood between centers and the tool rest well back so as not to bang the turning wood, crank the speed to the max and let her rip.  I shoved the tool into the wood, felt a very hard yank, heard this horrible noise and the tool dissapeared.  I looked everywhere for the tool and, while shaking like a leaf in a wind storm, noticed that it was stuck in the ceiling.  I unplugged the lathe and put it away for maybe a year.  This thread addresses the problem I had and didn't know why it happened until a woodworking show had some guys turning as a demo and I saw immediately what I had done.  This episode happened about 40 years ago and I will never forget it.  Good thread and hopefully it will save someone a scare and improve the results of their shop time.
WB


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## Ulises Victoria (Aug 16, 2012)

Not sure if after turning pens for 9 months I may still be considered a newbie, but certainly I will benefit from this post.


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## flyitfast (Aug 16, 2012)

Agree with having a smooth top of the tool rest.
That's why I like the Robust tool rests with their hardened steel bar.
To take "smooth" a step further, I have put Slippery Low Friction Tape on the front of the tool rest, just below the top. It really helps when using the front to guide your finger when resting it on the tool rest as you move your hand holding the metal part of the chisel across during the cut. (Whew!) 
I got it at WC but there are a lot of places that carry it.
The tape is often used on saw fences, bottoms of drawers, and any other place needing to slide.
FWIW
gordon


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## 76winger (Aug 16, 2012)

To share my own experience:

I don't remember where I picked it up because I had read a couple books and watch a couple people turn before I ever turned anything on my Shopsmith. But wherever I picked it up, I've always tried to get my tool rest down very near that 1/8" mark on pens, and use skew. A little larger gap on bowls, but that's a different story/thread.  Even when using a gouge to round the blank, it's about that same 1/8" distance from the highest edge. 

The only times I recall busting a blank has been when I didn't stop and move the rest up soon enough. 

And one that really threw me was when I tried to use my first and only carbide cutter on Afzelia burl (it worked great on Trustone, so why not wood!), and I had nothing but problems with the setup. Close, far away, no mater where I put it the wood fibers was catching the cutter and yanking the tool clean out of my hand! Ultimately, it busted the blank when it yanked the tool out of my hand, sucked it in and bent the mandrel when it tried to pull the thing between that and the rest. I later learned the cupped cutter (it had a very slight lip on the edge) was made for metal cutting rather than wood/acrylic so I've stopped using it except for really hard Trustone where it still works OK. Everywhere else: keep the rest close and the skew sharp SHarp SHARP!

Good thread and good advise George!


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## vwnw (Aug 17, 2012)

Nice post and relevant!  The skew can be intimidating when not understood.  2 things come to mind.  I also raise the tool rest so I can comfortably handle the skew by simply resting it on the tool rest. In addition, years ago when I started working with the tool I took my parting tool and used just the corner edge making nice shaving cuts across a peice I was working with.  Then, I worked with a 3/8 diamond parting tool and did the same thing, then a bedan...  By the time I was working with the skew I understood the importance of cutting only with the front lower edge and by this time had plenty of practice doing it.  NOW the skew is my friend.  I use two skews.  One for the roughing and the second is always very very sharp and is used for the finishing last cuts.  Vince


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## Dalecamino (Aug 17, 2012)

Great thread George. Very interesting, and most helpful.


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## Texatdurango (Aug 17, 2012)

vwnw said:


> Nice post and relevant!  The skew can be intimidating when not understood.  2 things come to mind.  I also raise the tool rest so I can comfortably handle the skew by simply resting it on the tool rest. In addition, years ago when I started working with the tool I took my parting tool and used just the corner edge making nice shaving cuts across a peice I was working with.  Then, I worked with a 3/8 diamond parting tool and did the same thing, then a bedan...  By the time I was working with the skew *I understood the importance of cutting only with the front lower edge *and by this time had plenty of practice doing it.  NOW the skew is my friend.  I use two skews.  One for the roughing and the second is always very very sharp and is used for the finishing last cuts.  Vince


Vince, did you see the skew I use in the photos above?  THAT little baby took some time to master but now it's my favorite tool for small work.  The sweet spot on the 1/4" wide surface isn't very wide!


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## danrs (Aug 17, 2012)

How fo you Jet 1620 guys get close without taking the banjo apart (then the tightness is not there)?


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## cnirenberg (Aug 17, 2012)

George,
Thanks for the timely reminder.  Excellent thread.


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## Wildman (Aug 17, 2012)

I bought the Robust comfort rest mentioned earlier in this thread for my Jet 1642.


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## joefyffe (Aug 17, 2012)

When I see the username "Texatdurango" I READ.!!!!!   I have never failed to benefit from your posts.  Thanks, George!!!!!


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## jzerger (Aug 17, 2012)

I just recently started trying to master the woodchuck pen-pro after a few hundred pens/stuff with gouge and skew.  I'm finding it a bit disconcerting to have the tool rest set so low when using the pen-pro (to keep the blade at center with the blank).  This is necessary because of the bar holding the blade is so thick.  I feel like I don't have the control I do with a skew where I'm RIGHT next to the blank with the rest.  I like the idea of trying it upside down...not sure about the visibility of the blade and blank simultaneously...guess I'll find out soon enough.  Good Posts...Thanks.


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## plantman (Aug 19, 2012)

:rain::rain: Nice thread Georage!! Sometimes you have to be brought back to the basics to understand what you are not doing correctly. To me a lathe is one of the hardest tools to feel comfortable using. You are always waiting for something to happen, your knuckles are white, and sweat is running in your eyes. I feel the best way to learn turning is by watching someone turn something and explain what and why they are doing it that way. A video works nice for this because you can always rewind and rewatch something you didn't catch the first time. On the subject of catches, if you don't want to have them, try using a lathe made for metal work. You never have catches because the tooling is always centered with your stock, cutter is always set to take off a certain amount of stock evenly across your blank, a blowout, if you ever have one, is usualy caused by poor glue coverage, and it is much safer because you are not standing in front of the lathe. But that's a whole different subject to go into. Great job George!!!  Jim S


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## Joe S. (Aug 19, 2012)

Where can you find short tool rests?
Edit: by short I mean about 2" for between centers


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## Texatdurango (Aug 19, 2012)

Joe S. said:


> Where can you find short tool rests?
> Edit: by short I mean about 2" for between centers



I bought my tool post snd several different sizes of round rods from a fellow IAP member, rherrell (Richard Harrell).  I don't know if he has a website or not but send him a PM and he'll probably be able to help you out. 

He does custom requests also, I still wasn't satisfied with the 2" rest I ordered from him so he sent me one that was 1.70" long....... it's my favorite, most used rest!


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## PenMan1 (Aug 19, 2012)

Texatdurango said:


> Joe S. said:
> 
> 
> > Where can you find short tool rests?
> ...




I have many different rests in all lengths and sizes. The round rests that He makes are the only ones I use for pens. The maintenance on the is very simple, they accept a little paste wax that makes tools glide across them like silk, and when I get them gunked up, 30 seconds with grinder's wire wheel makes them shine like new!

I LOVE these rests AND the price is definately right!


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## reiddog1 (Aug 19, 2012)

*Me too*

I pretty much did the same thing.  I have no official training and have been winging it for a couple of years now.  Saw penturning on youtube and had to try it.  I think I have the worst skew on the planet and no skills to use it.  I mainly use it as a scraper with the tool rest way too far out.  Looks like its time to upgrade and learn the right way.  Great post!!

Dave

QUOTE=Texatdurango;1432520]





swanny70 said:


> This is one of the best posts I have seen in a long time! * This type of post really help us newbies!*


And that's exactly why I posted it!  

I got to wondering how many here are like I was when I started......I bought a lathe at a Wood Show, picked up a handful of turning tools based on suggestions from some of the turners doing live demos at the show, picked up a few odds and ends, went home, plugged in the lathe and started figuring out which way was up and what did what.  Actually a pretty dangerous way of teaching myself how to turn but I managed.

It wasn't until I joined a local turning club that I started learning the proper way of using the tools so sharing this little tidbit might just help a few newbies from ruining some nice blanks AND keep them from getting hurt when their tool takes a nose dive and tries to wrap around the spindle turning itself into an over sized egg beater.

I thought the title of an old Clint Eastwood western would be appropriate..... :biggrin:[/QUOTE]


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