# Distinction: Celtic knots vs. Lissajous curves



## Chthulhu (Dec 27, 2010)

I hate to nitpick, but I see a number of people posting images of "Celtic knot" designs which really aren't Celtic knots at all: they're Lissajous curves.

If you compare them, the differences are quite obvious, and we do a disservice when we perpetuate this sort of inaccuracy.


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## Russianwolf (Dec 27, 2010)

I'll agree and disagree. 



> Main Entry:   	Celtic knot
> Part of Speech:   	n
> Definition:   	any of eight decorative knots with alternating over-and-under construction, originating in pre-Christian times and found in manuscripts and on monuments
> Example:   	The Book of Kells is well-known for the Celtic knots.






> Lissajous Curve
> (¦lē·sə¦zhü ′fig·yər)
> (physics) The path of a particle moving in a plane when the components of its position along two perpendicular axes each undergo simple harmonic motions and the ratio of their frequencies is a rational number. Also known as Bowditch curve.



I say the segmented blanks that are commonly called Celtic knots are neither. 1. The over/under construction of a celtic knot isn't complete. Thee is at least one band that is on top all the way around the pen. 2. For nearly the same reasons, it's not a true lissajous.

It resembles both, but isn't either really. so I call them Pseudo-celtic knots.

The only real celtic knots I've seen are the laser engraved blanks and One or two carved blanks.


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## Crickett (Dec 27, 2010)

Russianwolf said:


> ...The only real celtic knots I've seen are the laser engraved blanks and One or two carved blanks.



This is the best inlayed Celtic Knot I've seen ...
http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=51643


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## Fred (Dec 27, 2010)

Marla, I agree with your opinion on the work you refer us to. Larry's inlay is definitely a great example for this discussion. I just would like to know how much time he has involved with these pens he has posted.


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## Chthulhu (Dec 28, 2010)

Crickett said:


> Russianwolf said:
> 
> 
> > ...The only real celtic knots I've seen are the laser engraved blanks and One or two carved blanks.
> ...



That is, indeed, Celtic knotwork, and a fine example.


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## glycerine (Dec 28, 2010)

Chthulhu said:


> I hate to nitpick, but I see a number of people posting images of "Celtic knot" designs which really aren't Celtic knots at all: they're Lissajous curves.
> 
> If you compare them, the differences are quite obvious, and we do a disservice when we perpetuate this sort of inaccuracy.


 
Uh... either way, I think it's much easier to sell a pen by saying "take a look at this beautiful Celtic knot design" than to say "take a look at this Lissajous curve pen"!!  They'll just stare at you like LissaWHAT?...


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## Chthulhu (Dec 28, 2010)

... setting your customer up for embarrassment when he shows off his "Celtic knotwork" pen to someone who knows better? :-/


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## glycerine (Dec 28, 2010)

I can't think of a single person who would be embarrassed over that... and calling it a lissajous curve would be just as "embarrassing" because that would also be "incorrect".  It looks like both, but as Mike said, it is neither.
People call their pens "celtic knot" pens because they resemble a celtic knot. The same way people call the "stars and stripes" pen a flag pen. It's not an actual flag or even a true representation of the flag. But it LOOKS like a flag, just like all of the celtic knot pens that I have seen LOOK like a celtic knot.


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## glycerine (Dec 28, 2010)

And by the way, I believe this discussion has come up before on the forum...


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## Karin Voorhis (Dec 28, 2010)

glycerine said:


> I can't think of a single person who would be embarrassed over that... and calling it a lissajous curve would be just as "embarrassing" because that would also be "incorrect".  It looks like both, but as Mike said, it is neither.
> People call their pens "celtic knot" pens because they resemble a celtic knot. The same way people call the "stars and stripes" pen a flag pen. It's not an actual flag or even a true representation of the flag. But it LOOKS like a flag, just like all of the celtic knot pens that I have seen LOOK like a celtic knot.



This is one of the greatest intelligent things I have read on the internet in long time!  I don't ever posts to debate type posts but wow your comment is dead on perfect and I wanted to share my impressed feelings after I read it. Thank you!


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## kludge77 (Jan 3, 2011)

HA!

You* can't hate to nickpick *with thread like this...


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## workinforwood (Jan 3, 2011)

If it looks like an x on one side and a open mouth on the other, it's not a celtic knot.  Also, what is a celtic knot is not a celtic Cross.

I do not have a pic of a true celtic knot, but this is a true celtic cross.


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