# Are your white backgrounds grey?



## mattgatten (Jan 16, 2008)

Hi Guys,

I've been lurking here for a while now.  Thought I would find a way to contribute around here.  I've been an avid photographer for 15 years and a semi pro for the better part of 5.  So here goes.  

I notice most folks are using a light tent for their pen photography.  I'm just curious as to why does everyone think they need to have a completely white background with no shadow?  I notice that a lot of the images are slightly underexposed creating a grey background.  Well here is what the camera does with completely white backgrounds with a small subject.  (Or a person standing in the snow, for that matter).  

The camera's automatic settings takes the entire scene into account.  It then tries to make the 'best adjustment' to it's internal settings to give you an image that is 'well exposed' throughout.  With that much white in a scene and very little dark areas (the pen) it thinks it's a really bright sunny day and stops the aperture down, darkening the image, and giving you an underexposed image. 

I'll go on with more about exposure in another thread if you want.  For now, determine what the camera is doing in automatic mode with your setup and remember the f/stop and shutter speed.  Then switch to manual mode set the shutter from the first picture but open the aperture by a stop or stop and a half.  If it's f/16 on auto, then open it to f/11 or f/8.  Experiment.  What you are going for is a pure white background.  That will make sure your image is properly exposed.  When you're done, go back to the original f/stop and now start slowing the shutter down and watch what it does. Opening the aperture is going to decrease your DOF.  Maybe one end of your pen is blurry and the front and middle is sharp.  Slowing the shutter down will increase you DOF and give you detail front to back.   

As for a light tent, I really don't care for them.  You can do some amazing thing with natural window light (the best light), a white wall, or a couple of white 8X10 cards. 

Here are some shots I took in a bright room with natural window light.  (All except the green thorny looking thing.)  As an example.  Sorry they are not pens.  

Flowers Without a Tent

Thanks guys,
Matt


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## leehljp (Jan 16, 2008)

Matt,

I appreciate your post and am going to re-read it over a few days time. It takes a while for things to soak in. I have had some fairly fine cameras over the years but I would only take pictures every 3 or 4 months and would have to re-learn the finer points EVERY time by re-reading the manual about setting everything. With Digital cameras (Digital Rebel Japanese version) I am having a heck of a time learning all of that. I am going through the paces that you are describing and it is a hard learn for me.

For some reason, in computer speak on web graphic versus printed page, dpi, sizing and all the correlations of that - have never been a problem. But camera settings - I could use a brain change. Thanks for the post. I am going to re-read it more.


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## pentex (Jan 16, 2008)

I appreciate the information and also have read this several times trying to learn how to take better pictres. I lost the manual on how to operate my camera, so learning as I go. The part about shutter speed is interesting. Thanks again. I printed this out and keep it close by when taking pen pictures.


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## karlkuehn (Jan 16, 2008)

Hi Matt! Some really good advice there.

I can't wait to see what you do with a pen!

Beautiful pictures, by the way!


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## gerryr (Jan 16, 2008)

> _Originally posted by mattgatten_
> 
> Slowing the shutter down will increase you DOF and give you detail front to back.



I know what you mean, but the way it is worded could easily lead people down the wrong path into believing they can control DOF with either aperture OR shutterspeed.  Keeping the aperture constant and slowing the shutter will not increase DOF.


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## mattgatten (Feb 11, 2008)

Gerry is right.  Shutter speed won't increase DOF.  Slowing it down will force you to close the aperture down to get more light, thus increasing DOF.  

I don't know what I was thinking when I wrote it.  I have another 'retraction' to post around here somewhere when I find it.  I should probably just close my mouth sometimes.  hahaha

Thanks guys,
Matt


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## palmermethod (Feb 11, 2008)

Matt are you talking about a Film camera? I get that but don't most people use the digitals now? I'll admit I have a inexpensive FinePix camera but and it seems to work OK. I use Paint Shop Pro to resolve any exposure issues.


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## aurrida (Feb 12, 2008)

exposure depends on how you camera reads the light reflected off a scene. knowing how your camera light exposure modes work is important, regardless of whether you use film or digital.

most modern electronic cameras, film or digital, allow you to chose what exposure metering you want. i would suggest an average/matrix reading to begin with and then spot when you are familiar with how it works.

an average reading takes into account the various readings from your picture, and makes some assumptions. generally it thinks you a taking your photo in none direct daylight with average tones. those interested look up how to use a grey card. using the different modes tell the camera, amongst other things, its not a sunny day basically, for example sunset mode.

problems occur with colour changes and under exposure when you via from what the camera assumes. 

colour changes: your camera expects you to be taking pictures in natural daylight light, which has a particular temperature. taking a picture with a tungsten light bulb has a different colour temperature. you need to tell you camera this or your photos will have a colour cast. as has been said this can be corrected in a photo software.

exposure: your camera expect an average tone, the tone of grass in daylight or interestingly the tone of a Japanese persons skin colour. Japanese cameras are calibrated to take pictures of Japanese people. 

if you take a picture of snow and dont tell the camera that it is a bright tone and not a mid tone the snow will be grey. not to be confused with white balance.

if you take a picture of coal and dont tell the camera its a dark tone it too will come out grey.

so for predominantly bright scenes, light wood, light background, you will need to adjust the exposure for your camera, and vise versa for predominantly dark scenes. even easier is set you camera to auto bracket, you then get usually 3 pics with different exposures.

note contrasty scenes fool many camera meters.

i agree natural soft light through a window is very good, its easy to manipulate for one shot but try and repeat the shot tomorrow and it far from ideal. for consistency and repeatability of shots particularly for advertising then a studio and light tents are essential.

as with all advertising shots, and i categorize pen shots in the same genre, the need to show a product. only a background that add to the product is essential, and only shadows that add something, atmosphere, are desirable.  

happy snapping


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## fernhills (Feb 12, 2008)

Hi,well i have been reading all the info above..Took this pic at window in daylight ,no flash with macro setting..I think it is the clearest i took to date.. Carl


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## gerryr (Feb 12, 2008)

That looks pretty good, except for the funky looking reflection near the tip.  You should also crop out as much background as possible, so the pen occupies most of the space in the image.


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