# next level



## zombie7986 (Apr 12, 2009)

I have been turning for over a year now and have made a ton of pens (regular straight forward pens).  I have also tried segmenting and gluing in different veneers.  I am having problems getting to the kit less pen level.   I’ve looked thought the library and not to much has turned up in that area.  If anyone can send me in the right direction it would be greatly appreciated.  I attached a couple photos of things ive done.


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## ldb2000 (Apr 12, 2009)

Hi Kris and welcome to the next level . This is a subject that is near and dear to me . 
What kind of kitless pens do you want to do , Ballpoint , rollerball , Fountain , hybrid ? Each has it's advantages and it's pitfalls . Kitless Ballpoints are my favorite because of the challenge of the mechanicals involved and can be as simple as a slimline transmission and a couple of 7mm tubes to completely kitless where you make everything but the refill . 
Rollerball and Fountain pens can also be made many different ways , friction fit cap , snap fit cap or threaded cap . Friction fit are the simplest in design but you have to turn your parts to very tight tolerances to get a tight friction fit that won't open in a pocket . Snap fit are a little more difficult , I'm sorry to say that I really haven't tried this style yet so I'm not sure about the mechanics of them . I must try one of these someday . Threaded cap pens are easy enough to do if you have the right equipment like a metal lathe or a set of taps and dies . The metal lathe has a very big learning curve , which I'm working on now , to be able to cut threads , especially multi start . Taps and dies that will work can be purchased from many different sources , even a set from Harbor Freight can be used successfully however most threaded cap pens use something called "Multi start" threading , which is 2 or more sets of threads combined into what looks like one set of threads , This requires a special type of tap and die that are quite expensive and must be special ordered . 
I know that there some who will disagree with me but I would suggest that you start with kitless slimlines . They are the simplest to design and build but can be quite striking when you get it right , like this . 



 
This pen got me into the Penmakers Guild but it is just a kitless slimline in that it uses a slimline transmission and a Cross type refill .

Try this link and take a look at what can be done with a slimline transmission and some 7mm tubes http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=36211&highlight=kitless+pen+challenge .
Also check out my photo album to see several different types of kitless pens . Also go to the Penmakers Guild and check out some of the most awesome work you will ever see http://www.penmakersguild.com/browse.php


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## zombie7986 (Apr 12, 2009)

I think for now I would start with the easiest type of kit less and work my way up.  I just found a guy who has a metal lathe and he keeps asking me to come over.  Ive been trying to research things so I know what to try when I get there.  
Ive seen your work before.  I really like your window pen and have been racking my brain on how you did it.  

thank you


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## ldb2000 (Apr 12, 2009)

Just so you know a metal lathe is not required for doing many softer metals like Aluminum and brass . I have a metal lathe but I'm still working on the learning curve which , depending on what you want to do , is quite steep . I use my Jet 1014vsi to do the pens you have seen so far . Your best bet would be to start doing some modified slimlines , things like loosing the CB and make your own out of contrasting wood or acrylic . You could also try making a slimline into a Euro . Then the next thing would be to make a closed end pen out of a slimline or a cigar kit . you will have to figure out how to hold the closed end on your lathe , I use jam chucks and the tail stock to do the rough turning then remove the tail stock and do the final cleanup and finishing . To do a kitless pen you will have to learn how to do step drilling (making different sized holes to accept the refill) and (spring if needed)
These tasks should keep you busy at the lathe for a while as you build the skills to go further .
The windows pen is a straight forward design I drill the first wood to fit the core tube then turn it down between centers till it is about 1/32" to 1/64" thick then drill the secondary wood to fit over the first wood and turn it down on a jam chuck till it is the desired thickness . Then I take the secondary wood tube still on the jam chuck and sand the windows using an oscillating spindle sander . Then I turn the nib and finial parts to fit the tube assy . As complicated as it seems it really isn't it just require a little thought about how it will go together . 
Twindows is another story but still uses the same basic ideas .
Hope this all helps you , if you need any other advice please feel free to ask . Also look at the Challenge pages and see the evolution of my skills as I played with the different ideas .


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