# Is it all worth it... Space, $$$, and health



## overrocking (Jul 20, 2013)

For years I've wanted a wood shop just to have the ability to build things myself that sense of personal accomplishment ... that yea I made that. 

However I don't have a garage nor do I have room for a shed with out sacrificing the play area in the backyard. Besides the money i have for outfitting a shop is way less than what it would take to build a shed that could be used all year here in WI

This winter I talked to a pen turner at a craft show about how he made his pens. he said it just started out a small fun hobby that didn't take much space in his basement shop.

This spring I found a small lathe for a song and IAP has be a wealth of information and support. 

To make a long story even longer ...

Since picking up the lathe and I only turned a few practice pieces to learn as I yet have all the tools required in pen turning. 

I have stopped because of the dust ... A respirator fixed me getting dust in my lungs. 

However not related or caused by the turning my 2 year son is now on twice a day breathing treatments. 

After doing some reading online I guess saw dust can be quite harmful and a poorly designed in home shop can quickly make air quality horrible. A high performance dust collector and a air filter would chew up more than what I have left in the budget  and a good deal of the space I have in my small basement area. 

So far I only have about $250 invested into this new hobby:
I have a 18 inch VS ryobi mini lathe
a small drill press
chisels 
Face shield
respirator
safety glasses

Before the dust issue started freaking me out I am almost at the point where I can start turning pens only about $100 needed for Mandrel, sandpaper, finishing stuff, end mill, and some kits.

The dust collector is a few to 6 months out financially so now that I have take too much of everybody's time ... is it worth it to continue. 

My son's and house's health are more important so blindly turning without care for the dust is irresponsible and not going to happen. 

Suggestions ...


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## mredburn (Jul 20, 2013)

Stop now, put this hobby on hold until your better off financially and put your sons health first.  You can sell off your stuff or you can store it for later.  Lots of people here stopped  for years before picking it up again. Im one of them. Maybe you can find someone you can turn with that has the room, and or equipment, or maybe a local turning chapter.


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## SteveJ (Jul 20, 2013)

I suppose it depends upon how you determine "worth".  

I do not believe it is worth it to sacrifice your child's health or your own.  But then people engage in all sorts of dangerous activities (smoking, drinking and driving, and many types of sports) calculating that the benefits or joy of engaging in such is worth the potential risk involved.

As with most potentially dangerous activities, there are ways to minimize the risk, some of which don't cost much money.  

You can outfit an effective shop in a relatively small area, and you can control the dust and dirt.  Most of us here have decided that it is worth it.  Occasionally you will find someone who, after investing in a well equipped shop, will decide that it is not worth it and they will liquidate their shop.


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## HMH (Jul 20, 2013)

Another thought, most of the equipment we use is portable. build yourself a system that allows you take the equipment outside on those nice days and return it to the safety of the house for storage when the weather turns bad. If you find yourself still wanting to get into the hobby look for a friend that has the room and will allow you to set up your equipment in exchange for allowing him/her to use your equipment or for a few pens.


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## nativewooder (Jul 20, 2013)

You must determine priorities in your life.  Home, Family, and whatever else you value without regard to $$.  This can be an expensive hobby and can cause illnesses in yourself and others.  There is no need to rush to get into woodturning.  Spread it out over several years so you can congratulate yourself on not having to skimp on more important things.  Look to your future and have a GREAT day!


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## plantman (Jul 20, 2013)

Health is always number one on the list !!! Most of your equipment is not going to make a lot of dust, so let's look at the one that does. The lathe. Unless you are going into production woodworking, you don't need a whole shop dust collecting system. I have two systems in my 24 X 36 shop, and very seldom use them. These are the other two methods I use most of the time. Since I use my Mini Metal lathe for most pen work and have a tool holder that moves back and forth, I attach my shop vac nozzel to the tool holder with a clamp and adjust it just inside my cutting bit. No dust, no chips, and no fumes when cutting CA or finishing the blanks. When I use one of my regular lathes, I have made plywood hoods that fit on the back rails and attach the shop vac to it. My roll around wet/dry Black and Decker shop vac was around $ 40. The second way I collect dust is with several Stanley vacs that are small in size and attached to seperate tools like my disk sander, belt sander, mini miter saw, and hand sanders. I purchased them at Menard"s on sale and added the 15% bag discount for a total of less than $10 each. I have made dust collection boxes out of plywood, with furnace filters, to clear the shop air, and used a box fan to draw air into it. Cost, less than $10 to build and keeps air moving in the area. You can usualy find a working VS box fan at a yard sale for a few dollars. I would try one or more of these methods before giving up turning if at all possible. Also a side note. If you are getting that much dust from turning, there is something else not quite right with your methods. If you are getting dust instead of shavings, you are using a scraping motion as opposed to a cutting motion. Could be the wrong choise of tools, incorrect angle, or dull tools. Unless you are buying the most expensive tools made, they will need some tuning up before use. Look in the library here for tips and tricks, also Youtube videos. You may also want to try to close off your shop area with plastic in order to contain the dust to a smaller area and make filtering easier. Just some ideas I'm throwing out there. Good Turning!! Jim S


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## wouldentu2? (Jul 20, 2013)

Remember wood chips are not dust, limit your sanding by finishing with a skew ALMOST exclusively. When you do buy a collection system / device select one with the finest filtration. Dust may not bother you now but 20 years from now it will affect your quality of life.


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## plano_harry (Jul 20, 2013)

Tim, welcome to IAP.  It sounds like your son's breathing is already  compromised so things that don't bother most of us would be amplified  for him.  _HMH_ had a good suggestion to make your shop portable if possible.  Take a look at post #20 on this thread:
http://www.penturners.org/forum/f30/lets-see-your-lathe-stands-112762/index2.html

That has got to be the ultimate portable shop!  Getting your work outdoors will go a long way to solving the dust problem.

This hobby is more expensive, dollar-wise, than any of us really want to know.  If you want to continue in the basement, look at the dust box that Curtis Seebeck designed 
http://www.penturners.org/forum/f30/darn-near-perfect-penturning-lathe-dust-collection-52714/

I made an "improved"  version of this box and it works great.  If you attach it to good vac, you will get most everything.  The most effective way to do this is for the least money is use an Oneida Dust Deputy ahead of a powerful shop vac with a HEPA filter.  The Dust Deputy will separate 99% of the dust before it hits your shop vac so the HEPA filter doesn't get clogged.  The output air should have all the harmful sub-micron stuff removed.  Rigid makes one that is pretty quite for about $130.  I vent separated air outdoors, but that probably doesn't work in a basement!

Only you can weigh the costs.  I am sure you already put your son's health first, so I hope you can give the outdoor life a try until you can justify the air cleaning required for an indoor shop.

Best Regards,
Harry


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## plantman (Jul 20, 2013)

plano_harry said:


> Tim, welcome to IAP. It sounds like your son's breathing is already compromised so things that don't bother most of us would be amplified for him. _HMH_ had a good suggestion to make your shop portable if possible. Take a look at post #20 on this thread:
> http://www.penturners.org/forum/f30/lets-see-your-lathe-stands-112762/index2.html
> 
> That has got to be the ultimate portable shop! Getting your work outdoors will go a long way to solving the dust problem.
> ...


 
Harry; :smile-big:  This is Wisconsin not Texas. Sometimes in the winter we have to pass gas just to keep warm. I know you Texans blow a lot of hot air around, but up here we use it to heat our homes six months out of the year and can't afford to vent it outside. All jokeing aside, the air box is a great idea for little money. And, if it makes you feel any better, we just put in a week of near 100 degrees with 75% humidity. That's not what you Texans would call dry heat. It's like opening up the oven door and putting your head inside while spraying water on yourself. From the not so frozen tundra.   Jim  S


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## plano_harry (Jul 20, 2013)

Well Jim, it just so happens we have some room down here, lots of gas -- did I mention no state income tax?:cowboy:


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## hilltopper46 (Jul 20, 2013)

To the original poster - I live in East Troy, WI and sent you a PM about some possibilities.


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## overrocking (Jul 20, 2013)

Thanks for all the suggestions and concerns. I knew that asking my question to the group would bring up a ton of ideas.

I would love to work outside but getting the tools out from the basement wound not be too easy.

I'll will be looking more closely at some of those designs. Both carts and filters.


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## low_48 (Jul 21, 2013)

Before you could buy air cleaners for the shop, many folks fastened a furnace filter on the back of a box fan. Twenty bucks for the fan, $5 for a pleated furnace filter. They work great and you just take them outside and blow them off. Of course, some woods are WAY more harmful than others. Even just running a bare fan on the floor will knock the fines out of the air that float around, but then you have to clean that up somehow.


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## OOPS (Jul 22, 2013)

I have a couple of suggestions to consider.  First, you might want to concentrate on turning acrylic pens first.  The shavings drop to the floor or come off the blank in ribbons and airborne particulates is not the issue it can be with wood.  Second, a guy posted on this site about two years ago his shed he built for penturning.  It was basically a wooden tool shed he purchased from Lowe's that had a table across one wall.  He had an "attic" of sorts to store his blanks and other materials.  Every square inch of space was used, but he was able to get it all in there.  There was just enough room for him to slide in an turn something.  Dust was not a big issue, as the doors opened on one end and there was a window on the other.  I can't remember how he vented it, but the point is you don't need an extravagant setup, but you need to plan it out carefully.   I hope this provides some ideas.


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## Dan Masshardt (Jul 22, 2013)

Yes it's worth it. 

You can come up with a cheap dust solution. 

You don't need much space to turn pens.


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## The Penguin (Jul 22, 2013)

plantman said:


> plano_harry said:
> 
> 
> > Tim, welcome to IAP. It sounds like your son's breathing is already compromised so things that don't bother most of us would be amplified for him. _HMH_ had a good suggestion to make your shop portable if possible. Take a look at post #20 on this thread:
> ...


100º @ 75% humidity *IS *a dry heat when compared to Houston.


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## Jim Burr (Jul 22, 2013)

I would look more closely at what is causing your sons breathing issues Timothy. At 2, it's impossible to have a diagnosis of Asthma; 2 y/o's can't sit through all the tests required and carry out the instructions necessary for a functional diagnosis. There a lot of places to get your turning fix! Fellow members shop, club members, even many churches have complete shops! It's called a Vortex for a good reason! Hope the stars align and offer the chance to continue your quest.


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## Dan Masshardt (Jul 22, 2013)

If you're turning in your basement and your son isn't in the room with with, it seems pretty unlikely that you are affecting his breathing. 

For yourself...you are already wearing a respirator.  

Beyond a real dust collector or even a makeshift one, simply having a fan blowing the dust away from you will make a difference.  

I don't see a health cost.  

Now $$$, that's another matter.   I suppose you could keep turning without spending much more money, but I haven't been able to. :-/


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## edstreet (Jul 24, 2013)

Perhaps once all of the epeen over gear etc calms down things could turn to topics that would really help the OP, i.e. technique.


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## sbell111 (Jul 24, 2013)

A Harbor Freight dust collector with added canister filter does a surprisingly good job and may not be as expensive as you think.


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## Justturnin (Jul 24, 2013)

I have been thinking about this since you posted.  Here is my idea and it may be way off and debunked but I am putting it out there.

1. Replace Basement door w/ a solid exterior door.
2. Enclose the stairwell
3. Install Exterior door at the bottom of the stairs.
4. Install a blower in the stairwell sucking clean air from outside or from the house creating positive pressure in the stairwell.
5. Insulate and cover the ceiling of basement
6. Install Air Cleaner to run while working
7. Install DC and enclose it and vent outdoors
8. Install a couple of Air Movers venting outside
9. Work in Coveralls

So when you are done with working you can power on the heavy air movers and suck all of the floating dust out of the room.  You could even take an electric blower and stir up the settled dust and it will get sucked out of the room. If this is done daily it should never get very bad in there.
Once the room is clean you can remove the coveralls, blast yourself w/ a little air to get the dust of you body (hair, hands etc) and go inside.

To some it sounds excessive but for your child it is not.

If I am way off please let me know.  This is based on opinion not fact that it would even work.


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## sbell111 (Jul 24, 2013)

Justturnin said:


> I have been thinking about this since you posted.  Here is my idea and it may be way off and debunked but I am putting it out there.
> 
> 1. Replace Basement door w/ a solid exterior door.
> 2. Enclose the stairwell
> ...


I think that you are overthinking the problem.

Regarding the two bolded bits, if you have a good dust collection system, you don't have any dust floating in the air, so you don't need anything else on the list.

Until we build our new home and move into our new shop, our turning area shares space with my Cadillac Allante, which often doesn't have a car cover on.  The car stays pretty clean.


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## Justturnin (Jul 24, 2013)

sbell111 said:


> I think that you are overthinking the problem.
> 
> Regarding the two bolded bits, if you have a good dust collection system, you don't have any dust floating in the air, so you don't need anything else on the list.
> 
> Until we build our new home and move into our new shop, our turning area shares space with my Cadillac Allante, which often doesn't have a car cover on.  The car stays pretty clean.



You very well may be right but I watch dust float away when I am turning and that is with a hood over the piece.  Then again, I have a HF DC w/ the original bag.  One of these days I will upgrade to a 1mc bag.


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## sbell111 (Jul 24, 2013)

Justturnin said:


> sbell111 said:
> 
> 
> > I think that you are overthinking the problem.
> ...



Pick up a canister for it and make sure that there is no leaks in the piping and I bet you'll see a huge difference.  We have a 0.5 HF canister on ours and it's great.  Unfortunately, I don't think that HF sells the canisters and conversion kits any more so they will be a bit more spendy then we paid.


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## sbwertz (Jul 24, 2013)

My girlfriend turns on her patio.  She rolls the lathe out on to the patio to work, then rolls it back into the garage when she is done.  She sets a big box fan behind her to blow sawdust away from her.  Her drill press and small bandsaw are in the garage.

Works for her except when it hits 110 degrees here.  (Then she comes and works on one of my lathes in my air conditioned shop :biggrin: )  I have a JET dust collector and air filters. My cars sit out in the weather...Ask me if I care!


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## beck3906 (Jul 24, 2013)

The suggestion to turn acrylics is most valid.  Consider wet sanding to reduce/remove the chance for sanding dust.


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## GaryMGg (Jul 24, 2013)

Hi Tim

Since you have no garage and no shed/shop and you've pretty much eliminated moving tools from your basement to outdoors, I would ask:
Is there somewhere on the ground floor or outside the home you could store your setup under cover to be able to roll it out in good weather?


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## kovalcik (Jul 24, 2013)

Given your restrictions on $$ and usable space, I think your best solution is to find a turning buddy and share shop space.   Maybe you can find someone who has a shop but needs a lathe and you can let him/her use yours for space  and time in the shop.


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