# So.... you're into kitless now!



## Texatdurango (Aug 8, 2011)

In recent months there are more and more members going "kitless" than ever before and I think it's great to see so much creativity and willingness to try something different by "thinking outside the bag".
 
*BUT.......* along with all the new folks making these pens I see something that needs to be addressed.
 
*Hopefully this will be taken as constructive criticism and not knocking anyone for trying and is not aimed at any one in particular.*
 
If you are going to enter the world of "made from scratch" pens you need to have a good understanding of what makes them work, especially fountain pens.  Simply looking at a photo of a pen then trying to make a duplicate won't get you there. 
 
There is more to making a fine writing pen than just cutting a few male and female threads then screwing things together!
 
Just a few things to consider when making a fountain pen are:
 
1. How deep to drill a hole to provide room for a converter.
2. Did you know that some converters are longer than others and have different diameters and some actually rely on threads in the feed to screw the converter onto the feed housing?
3. Also, all rubber cartridges are not the same either, some fit the feed nipple tightly, some rather loosely and rely on a tight fit in the feed housing to hold them tight.
4. Is there enough room inside the cap to allow for the nib to fit without hitting anything?
5. Are you allowing the threads alone to stop the lower body screwing into the cap or do you have a physical stop in your design?  What works fine today won’t be the same after a few hundred opening and closings so plan ahead.
 
I could go on and on but that would take half the fun out of experimenting.  I would suggest having a look at one of the kit fountain pens and examine it really close, paying attention to every detail and ask your self WHY things are done the way they are.  If a lower barrel seems wider than necessary, there’s probably a reason that may not be too obvious.
 
This "Advanced Pen Making" forum was started a few years ago to discuss everything above and beyond simply assembling a kit pen so if you have questions don't be bashful to ask or think it’s a silly question. 
 
If you read Jeff's "Sticky" intro to this forum you will see that it is NOT just for advanced pen makers, it's for everyone (assuming you have at least a basic understanding on making pens).  We’re all in this together so let’s have some fun!


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## Dalecamino (Aug 9, 2011)

Thank you George. There are some points here that I was not aware of. But, I am now!


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## PTownSubbie (Aug 9, 2011)

Thanks for stirring the pot George! :biggrin: I now have to prove that I can answer all those questions......

Been working on a few but can't get past a few things. I will get it soon and your questions will help me determine some of those factors.

Thanks!


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## Texatdurango (Aug 9, 2011)

PTownSubbie said:


> Thanks for stirring the pot George! :biggrin: I now have to prove that I can answer all those questions......
> 
> Been working on a few but can't get past a few things. I will get it soon and your questions will help me determine some of those factors.
> 
> Thanks!


 
Well I don't see it so much as stirring the pot or as a simple test of passage as it is getting folks to putting their thinking caps on and realizing that while making ones own pens from scratch can be fun, challenging and rewarding, it is not going to be as simple as gluing in a tube, turning a blank and pressing a couple parts together and having a finished pen half an hour later.

Penmakers spend years learning to make their own pens and while I have been dabbling in it for over three years now, I've just scratched the surface and only recently started making what I would consider a sellable pen that I would put on a table at a pen show for the critics to review and analyze!  

When I see folks asking "What size drill should I use for the lower body?"  I hope they realize it depends on which converter they want to use and do they want the body large enough to accept a different converter should they sell the pen and down the road the user wants to switch converters or start using a magnum cartridge instead of the "international standard" cartridge.  Lots of variables that need to be considered when you make the pen... not later on.


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## PTownSubbie (Aug 10, 2011)

George,

Stirring the pot is not a bad thing all the time! This is a good stirring! ;-)

Fred


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