# Best alternative to CA finish?



## toomanysplinters (Nov 10, 2005)

I've read many threads about what the best finish is, and it appears as though the most durable has CA somewhere in the process.  

What would be the best, and most easily applied of the finishes that do NOT include CA?  I'll be honest, I'm looking for something that I can apply quickly and easily.  The time required to let the finish dry is also an important factor.

I have been using a few coats of the friction polish under two coats of buffed carnuba wax.  I realize that this is probably one of the least durable finishes, and am in search of a better, non-CA, finish.


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## Dario (Nov 10, 2005)

What do they say?...no such thing as free lunch. []

Welcome to the group that have been looking for such finish....and still searching.

From what I've read, Enduro is very promising.  Lacquer based friction polish comes to mind too.

I personally am experimenting with lacquer (brushed).  It is fast and durable but not easy and may take a while to master.  I will probably post a couple of pens I made the other day and last night as soon as I get them assembled.


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## wood-of-1kind (Nov 10, 2005)

Personally I use a three(3) part buffing system: tripoli, white dyamond and two coats of carnuaba wax. Final buffing with a linen wheel. I get a lustrous shine and it seems to wear well. Works for me.

-Peter-


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## DCBluesman (Nov 10, 2005)

Check out Russ's post.  He's about as experienced a "finisher" as I've found. http://www.penturners.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10406&whichpage=1#104874


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## toomanysplinters (Nov 10, 2005)

I know, I know.  Nothing's free.

Peter, I have the Beall Bowl Buffing system with the three wheels and the compounds you mentioned above.  

Do you put anything on before buffing?  What grit do you sand to?  Would it hurt to apply the friction polish first, then proceed thru the buffing steps?


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## Dario (Nov 10, 2005)

Scott,

Hope you didn't take that as a snide remark.  Just the truth that we all are looking for such illusive finish.

I think I got the CA finish down and not sure why i stopped using it [] ...but as mentioned, lacquer is my next finish and it is very promising. 

I am actually relieved that it is easier than I expected it to be.  I applied lacquer finish on a pen Tuesday night and I sanded it after less than 24 hours and it came out very nicely [].  I am not telling others to do it as soon but just sharing my experience.

Things learned...cheap brush leave bristles on your pen LOL.


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## toomanysplinters (Nov 10, 2005)

Absolutely not, I understand completely.

Have you any experience with the homemade lacquer friction polished listed in the forum?  I'd be willing to give that a try if the durability and overall feel is there.

I get limited time in the shop.  With two kids (youngest just turned one this week) and a wife that works nights, it's tough to find the time to do what I love to do.  I have a bunch of pens and small things I'd like to turn for the Christmas season and would ideally like to be able to finish one in a night.

No offence taken.


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## Dario (Nov 10, 2005)

No experience on lacquer FP...they are available commercially too in case you are interested.  Tom (OldGriz) used it and maybe able to give you some input.

From your description CA seems to be the best choice.  Why don't you use it?

Another option is to target "average" one a day...meaning work with several pens simultaneously.  Turn one tonight and apply finish.  Set it aside while curing and grab the one the previous day to actually finish/assemble.  You will need extra mandrels this way OR make a rack where you can put the "curing" pens.  I did both and kept extra mandrel and made some racks...all I need now is the urge to turn more. []


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## alamocdc (Nov 10, 2005)

Scott, I made some of the lacquer based FP and used it for a while. It took me a few pens to get the process down to what I was really satisfied with, but believe it or not, I found it doesn't wear as well as Mylands FP and it's shellac based. So I went back to CA. I think if I were to use a lacquer based FP again it would probably be the commercial stuff. I think it's called Turner's Magic.


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## toomanysplinters (Nov 10, 2005)

While I haven't tried the CA finish (nor seen it) I guess it comes down to two things.  For one, I don't think I would like the plastic feel that everyone describes.  And secondly, I'm a bit intimidated by the whole process and all of the failures people say they're having.  

I guess I'll try it and see for myself.


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## wood-of-1kind (Nov 10, 2005)

Scott,
I do not use anything prior to my 3-part buffing system. I usually sand to 800 grit and then I use some 3M paper (blue,pink,white) that is equivalent to the micromesh products that gets mentioned here often.


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## GregMuller (Nov 10, 2005)

Scott,
I have used both the CA an the Enduro and I like both for durability. The enduro takes longer then the CA as I can do a CA finish in about fifteen minutes. I do not use the BLO because I have had cloudiness problems with the BLO.


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## ctEaglesc (Nov 11, 2005)

> _Originally posted by wood-of-1kind_
> <br />Scott,
> I do not use anything prior to my 3-part buffing system. I usually sand to 800 grit and then I use some 3M paper (blue,pink,white) that is equivalent to the micromesh products that gets mentioned here often.


Could you be more specific?
I'd like to see a "paper that comes close to the job all nine "grite" of MM does.
I have used, CA. and Mylands 3 step.
I used spray Deft gloss on my One forgiving pentarsia cathedral pen and I think I have a finish that works well( for now)[^]


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## TomServo (Nov 11, 2005)

cteagle: http://www.pelcoint.com/material_html/grindpo.htm - check under aluminum oxide lapping film, for instance...  these probably go finer than the micro mesh, and there are other styles which might be appropriate..  not cheap stuff, anyways, but I wish I could find some by the sheet.. the backing for all these is a polyester film, I believe


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## ctEaglesc (Nov 11, 2005)

I'll stick with MM.
If it aint broke don't fix it.
A lot more economical to buy and it lasts forever.
Is there a grit chart comparison?


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## Daniel (Nov 11, 2005)

eagle,
yes there is a comparison chart. Try this link
https://www.micro-surface.com/default.cfm?page_id=174
the type of MM we generally use is the middle one.
Micro Mesh Cushioned Abrasive Regular.


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## GregD (Nov 11, 2005)

toomanysplinters,
I've been using Deft high gloss brushing lacquer for a couple of months now. Applying the finish is relitively easy. I just put a dab on a paper towl just like I would shellawax. Crank up the speed all the way and wipe it on. 
Here is where it gets a little difficult. Lacquer needs to cure for a few days not just dry. Once cured, I buff with a  three(3) part buffing system. Tripoli, white dyamond and two coats of carnuaba wax. Final buffing with a linen wheel.
I'm planning on trying the Enduro soon but I need to sell a couple of pens before that.


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## chigdon (Nov 13, 2005)

It all depends on the durability you are truly looking for.  I searched and searched for the perfect alternative to CA after I was already doing CA finishes.  What I finally decided the best way to get a CA quality finish faster than what I was doing was to keep doing it and get better and faster at it.  I just won't do another finish any more and it really does go quicker the more you do.  Also remember the curing time is almost nothing (compared to somethign like lacquer).


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## RussFairfield (Nov 13, 2005)

It is impossible to give an answer to the questions from folks who want the gloss, hardness, and durability of a CA glue finish, but who don't want to spend the time learning how to do it and use it. The only other finish that might come close, and could be better than CA, would be an Enduro (waterborne poly) or an epoxy. Both of them are more difficult to learn and more time consuming than a CA finish. Others may disagree with that, but they are for me. 

There are faster finishes, and there are finishes that smell better, but there are none that will match CA glue or polyurethane resins for their durability and their ability to be polished to a high gloss. Those things are a function of hardness; and the harder the finish, the more difficult it is to apply. Hard and quick at the same time is something that hasn't been invented yet.


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## Rifleman1776 (Nov 13, 2005)

> _Originally posted by RussFairfield_
> <br />It is impossible to give an answer to the questions from folks who want the gloss, hardness, and durability of a CA glue finish, but who don't want to spend the time learning how to do it and use it. The only other finish that might come close, and could be better than CA, would be an Enduro (waterborne poly) or an epoxy. Both of them are more difficult to learn and more time consuming than a CA finish. Others may disagree with that, but they are for me.
> 
> There are faster finishes, and there are finishes that smell better, but there are none that will match CA glue or polyurethane resins for their durability and their ability to be polished to a high gloss. Those things are a function of hardness; and the harder the finish, the more difficult it is to apply. Hard and quick at the same time is something that hasn't been invented yet.



Russ, I guess your first sentence is an honest statement. But, for me, it isn't a matter of not wanting to learn to use CA. It is a matter of not wanting to use CA at all. I have tried it twice with dissapointing results. It dried so fast that to get a smooth surface I had to just about sand it off again. And, for whatever subjective reasons, I simply rankle at the idea of finishing anything with glue. It seems to go against nature. No logic there, I know. But it is how I feel. That said, I am searching for a good finish and finishing method that doesn't require days and many steps. It may never happed. But the search goes on.


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## rtparso (Nov 13, 2005)

I use CA and the type of finish (look, feel) depends on how you apply it. If you just apply a couple of coats of thin (seal, fill pores) and then sand. You can get a finish that looks a lot like oil. If you build it up it can look like a built up lacquer finish.


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## ograywolf (Nov 13, 2005)

I have been using a CA finish topped off with a friction lacquer (commercial version...I got it from PSI).  It puts an extra gloss on, and seems to give a very hard, durable finish.  I rarely have a problem with the CA setting too quickly.  I spread the thick version on one of the blank sections, run the lathe on slow speed, and wipe it across both sections with a small cloth pad.  About two strokes is all you get before it sets and grabs the cloth.  I leave the lathe running on slow, and spray it with accelerant.  Then wipe again with a cloth pad, spin it up to high speed, sand it with 600 grit, use 3EEE, and micro polish from there up to 12,000.  Then I put the lacquer on...one layer, burn it in good, buff it with a rag, and I'm done.  From untouched blank to finished pen takes about 3/4 of an hour for decent, saleable finish.  Obviously blanks with defects that need to be filled or fixed take longer, and I do blow a few up, so my average on the big pens is closer to an hour (except today when cleaning up the shop was the only thing I didn't screw up)! 

Here's an example:




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