# Stains/Dyes



## hazmat74 (Jun 25, 2013)

I did some searching in this forum but only came across a few posts that came near to my question.

I'm wondering if there's a reason that stains/dyes(I'm thinking alcohol- or water-based, not oils) don't seem to be used with pens. When I make pipes, I use various techniques to gain interesting figuring and depth. Is this a feature that doesn't pop quite as well on a pen, being a smaller piece, or is it simply personal choice?


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## Jim Burr (Jun 25, 2013)

Could be a couple reasons Matt; we usually try to use wood that is so interesting that no dye is needed. Another, the grain on a pen never really gets going like it would on a guitar or cabinet so the dye effect is somewhat lost...in other words...the pen barrel is really small in comparison. I, as have others, have done quite a bit of work with coloring pens, but with all the other potions for adding a "Wow" factor, dye could be lower on the list. Please keep in mind that the preceding thoughts are MHO only!!


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## mredburn (Jun 25, 2013)

There is no reason you cant do it. Some use BLO to help the grain. It may be that the work involved in staining and letting it dry before final finish is to much trouble. Especially when you can start with a highly figured wood and do a ca finish and your done.  There may be some issue with wood movement when you add moisture back into the wood.  You have a very small wall thickness on a pen. The average is .040 or 1mm for most kits. So you might increase the likely hood of cracking or swelling.  I have often thought that some of the plain cherry was a good candidate for staining but never bothered to do it. I have burl cherry I  havent made into a pen yet much less a plain piece.


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## hazmat74 (Jun 25, 2013)

Thanks for the responses. I can see how the size of the piece could be very prohibitive of something like under- and over-staining as I have done on many pipes. Lots of room to work with as you're progressing to a finished piece there. Not nearly so much on a pen. You've really gotta not be paying attention to sand into a tobacco chamber.

As I'm new and will be playing with a huge pile of found stock, I may give it a whirl to see what happens, though I don't want to spend much time on that while I'm learning proper techniques that are well-established.


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## Paul in OKC (Jun 25, 2013)

Did some pens a while back with anilin(sp) dye. Used blue on some maple burl. Rough turned and dipped in. Looked great, I thought. The softer parts absorbed the dye, the harder didn't. Did it for a sample for a grooms-mans gift. They went with plastic. Wish I had a pic.


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## hazmat74 (Jun 25, 2013)

A lot of what I've done is contrast staining along those lines, Paul. Laying down a dark understain, sanding it back, then laying down a final top stain when you have things all where you like them. Could get some really nice brindling effects depending on the combinations used.


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## wood-of-1kind (Jun 25, 2013)

I like to use "food dye" on certain plain species such as sycamore and maple. Personally I like the colour effect from this type of treatment. On my lower end priced pens, I can get away with this. Would NOT try this approach on higher end priced pens. JMO


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## Jim Burr (Jun 25, 2013)

hazmat74 said:


> A lot of what I've done is contrast staining along those lines, Paul. Laying down a dark understain, sanding it back, then laying down a final top stain when you have things all where you like them. Could get some really nice brindling effects depending on the combinations used.


 
That is usually done with black dye Matt. The standard convention is to dye black...sand down until whatever amount you like is left...I like about 20-30% and then hit with the next color...usually twice, or with another color...say red, then yellow or orange. Practice practice practice my friend...there is no right or wrong!


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## sbwertz (Jun 27, 2013)

I use food color gel, mixed with DNA instead of water.  Also black leather dye, just because I had a bunch of it from my draft horse harness.  It did a great job ebonizing an ash cane.  My 4H kids love having pens dyed in their school colors.  I was able to get Maroon and Gold food color gel that made great ASU pens. I use Americolor soft gel paste colors

AmeriColor™


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## OOPS (Jun 27, 2013)

A lady in our penturning club has done a fair amount of this using Transtint, mixed with alcohol.  She rubs various colors on the pen body, then sometimes sprays the whole pen with a mist of alcohol just before it dries.  Makes an interesting "weathered" effect.  It looks best on lighter to medium woods.  It is an interesting way to create a piece that otherwise might not be very noticeable.


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## clieb91 (Jul 12, 2013)

I too use Alcohol mixed with food coloring to dye pens and add some depth to them.  They seem to be quite popular, based on recent sales. I have also blended colors for an interesting effect. The trick to this is no two woods ever absorb exactly the same way so each one may be a slightly different color even with the same exact mixture. 
Here is a sample of a few of them. 







CtL


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## robutacion (Jul 12, 2013)

These last 12 months since I got my stabilizing system, I've done lots of pen blanks dying mixed with the Cactus Juice as the stabilizing resin, from single, double and triple dying in woods that wouldn't normally have much to offer as wood grain and natural colours however, I also done the opposite, use woods with lots of stuff happening naturally and created an extra effect.

I have far too many to mention all here but, one that just come to mind was the Coral tree wood dying I've done, here page -2.

Cheers
George


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## sbwertz (Jul 13, 2013)

Here is a box elder burl LeRoi dyed with ordinary green food coloring from the grocery store.


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## Wildman (Jul 13, 2013)

If want transparent colors with no mixing might have a look at Dr. Ph. Martin’s India inks. Black and white said to be opaque while black is need more than one coat for white. 

While clean up is easy with water, I could not dilute Black with water. Many local hobby stores and online sites carry individual colors. 

I top coated a couple of lamps dyed black with lacquer. Did not have any issues with raised grain. Guess can top coat with favorite film  finish over top of this stuff.

Dr. Ph. Martin's Bombay India Inks - BLICK art materials

If air brush they also have colors for that too although not Dr. Martin’s.  
Airbrush Colors - BLICK art materials


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## Jim Burr (Jul 13, 2013)

Let's look at facts and color. Food dye, coloring has been shown in gallery lighting to fade by 50% in 14 days. It doesn't work in the long term...it is for food, as stated on the label. Wood dyes are to be used on wood...aniline, pigment, archival coloring is the standard for use in wood...food dye is cheap, easy and expected to fail. Do yourself a favor, there are many gallery quality turners that have tried every dye that is made; I'm not a fan of art turning, but these guys are the best and know what works. Stop using cheap crap and make a quality product...please!


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## sbwertz (Jul 13, 2013)

Hmm.  That green pen is two years old, in daily use by a high school teacher, and is still bright green.  My stylus pen is bright red (dyed with food color), in daily use and is about two years old, and is still bright red.  Maybe it is the CA finish that protects the color, but I've not had one of them fade yet.
Sharon


Jim Burr said:


> Let's look at facts and color. Food dye, coloring has been shown in gallery lighting to fade by 50% in 14 days. It doesn't work in the long term...it is for food, as stated on the label. Wood dyes are to be used on wood...aniline, pigment, archival coloring is the standard for use in wood...food dye is cheap, easy and expected to fail. Do yourself a favor, there are many gallery quality turners that have tried every dye that is made; I'm not a fan of art turning, but these guys are the best and know what works. Stop using cheap crap and make a quality product...please!


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## Brh (Jul 13, 2013)

I've used Transtint dyes mixed with dna with good results. Dye goes on prior to the finish; I will wait a full day between dyeing and finishing. Transtint is what I like; any aniline dye will work.


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## sbwertz (Jul 13, 2013)

Oh, I LIKE those colors.  Thanks for posting the link

Sharon



Wildman said:


> If want transparent colors with no mixing might have a look at Dr. Ph. Martin’s India inks. Black and white said to be opaque while black is need more than one coat for white.
> 
> While clean up is easy with water, I could not dilute Black with water. Many local hobby stores and online sites carry individual colors.
> 
> ...


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## jttheclockman (Jul 14, 2013)

To the op. Try it for yourself. Not every pen made gets shown here. As is not every project gets shown here. Just because you have not seen it or it is not something that alot of people do does not mean it can not be done or has not been done. It will not take much effort to try for yourself. 

I have been dying woods of various types for years. I make small birdhouse ornaments. I use Rits dyes with denatured alcohol. Gives a nice deep coloring if the woods will allow it. Not all woods accept dyes. With Rits which is a clothing dye there are many of colors to choose from. Good luck.


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## Wildman (Jul 14, 2013)

Fact is, “talk to some of those gallery turners using aniline & transtint wood dyes.”  Both type dyes can and will fade with direct and indirect exposure to sun light.  A few turners worried about color fading now looking at products from auto industry.  Many have gone to using paints.   

Finishing & furniture restoration professionals use many different dyes in their work, doubt they limit themselves to just wood dyes! 

Yes, there are tips, tricks, and special techniques for using any dye. Dying wood more art than science for woodturners.  So if using art supplies, clothing, food, and leather dyes have fun with it!


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