# Grizzly Tools, Yes/No?



## johnm (Dec 9, 2009)

I need to get a jointer, and Grizzly has some tremendous prices, plus there is a store within driving distance, so there would be no shipping, my question is, does anyone have any experience with them, are they good tools, or would i be better spending the money on a Jet/Powermatic type brand.

John


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## mickr (Dec 9, 2009)

don't know..what are your preferences?  Excellent quality fit & finish? Or are you a cheapie Harbor Freight kind of person?  I have a griz bandsaw & it's Ok for what I paid...generally the more you pay the better the tool...are you a hobbiest? Or a pro?


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## HSTurning (Dec 9, 2009)

My company had a problem with a tool(pneumatic stapler) we bought 10-15 of them.  Some where able to make it a week or 2 some lasted less then half an hour.  They said they would not cover the warranty after fixing them (about 20) they were not even a month old.  They said they they are good for atleast 100,000 staples.  How many can you really use in less 30min.  I was the person dealling with customer service.  We used them with in spec's and well below.  No refund and would not cover the stated warranty.  I will never own a grizzly tool.  

We bought 2 to try out and the first 2 worked for over a year.  Then we bought 3.  had a problem with them and thought it was possibly just an issue with thoses.  we had no choice (in the middle of a job and needed some) and had to order more.  Everytime that we got a new one it lasted less and less time.  They never told me what the issue was, how to fix or avoid it.  We spent thousands and were planning on getting more tools.  YMMV JMO


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## Pen_Turner (Dec 9, 2009)

I also have had BAD results with Grizzly tools. I have learned my lesson the HARD WAY and I will be buying Jet or Powermatic or a quality brand from now on!! Hope this helps.


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## rjwolfe3 (Dec 9, 2009)

I have their band saw and love it. No problems at all. My dad has a Jet and has had nothing but problems from it. I use my Grizzly a lot more then his Jet and for more rough stuff as well. YMMV. 

I tend to buy what I can afford rather then the best quality (which is why I have 3 broken down vehicles in the driveway, lol.)


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## TowMater (Dec 9, 2009)

Ok, so I'm going to go against the grain here. And I feel justified in doing so since I actually own and use a Grizzley jointer (G0490) and my neighbor has the G0586 (with the carbide insert head). Both of these jointers do the job and the fit and finish was good on both machines (I helped setup both so I know). The one thing you'll want to do is make sure you pick up a link belt to replace the belt that comes with the machine (quieter operation). Either of these two machines are great machines and will do what you ask a jointer to do.

There are some area's where Grizzley machinery falls short for sure, I wouldn't buy a Grizzley lathe over Delta/Jet/Powermatic. But for tablesaws/bandsaws and jointers they make great equipment.


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## Texatdurango (Dec 9, 2009)

Once upon a time I would only buy Craftsman tools and thought everything else was imported junk but that was a long time ago and I finally realized most tools are imported so I quit looking at brands so much and started evaluating tools on their own merit.

I think advertising still works well in America because so many are still hung up on brands such as Jet or Delta or Ryobi but since I've had a Grizzly dust collector for probably 10 years now and one of their metal lathes for over a year, both without incident, I wouldn't hesitate recommending someone give them a shot. If for no other reason, their customer support and tech support are second to none!

Not to start a debate since I'm probably talking out my ear, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Jet or Delta jointers being made right down the street from Grizzly jointers or even in the same factory right before they took different paths to different paint and decal departments!

Go Grizzly! :biggrin:


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## KD5NRH (Dec 9, 2009)

TowMater said:


> Either of these two machines are great machines and will do what you ask a jointer to do.



No, they won't, but then, neither will any other brand.  Maybe I should stop asking a jointer to set itself up, prep all the lumber and make some coffee while I play on the lathe, or maybe all those silly companies need to set their standards a bit higher.

IMO, Grizzly and HF are hit-and-miss on some things, but they're hard to beat on things that:
a) are hard to screw up (dead centers, sledgehammers, etc)
b) tend to get lost and/or abused to death before they wear out
c) still come out ahead of the cost curve (if they're 1/10 the price of a good one, but the good one only lasts 3x as long, buy the cheap ones three at a a time and you're still way ahead)


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## GoodTurns (Dec 9, 2009)

I have a G0555 bandsaw and love it.  Great service from ordering through delivery and talking me through setup.  Will definitely shop Grizzley when looking for my next "big" piece of machinery.


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## jtpalmer (Dec 9, 2009)

I'm new here, but thought I'd add something to the discussion. I recently bought a Grizzly G0462 lathe. When I assembled it, I aligned the head and tail, only to disover they were off by about 1/8". Now, the headstock does swivel, so that was easily fixed. But in the preset position, where the head snaps into place for turning over the bed, it was off. The biggest problem is the tool rest. It is very light weight and vibrates badly. It is also 12" long, which is of course not good for turning pens. I contacted Grizzly to see if they had an overall upgraded tool rest, or if I could buy an additional, shorter rest. Got a very brief reply stating that was all that was availble, and any attempts to modify it would void the warranty. They just didn't seem very helpful.
I guess the lesson is, buy cheap tools and live with the consequences! I probably won't buy much from them again, myself.


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## KenBrasier (Dec 9, 2009)

Grizzly is my power tool of choice.  I typically read the reviews in various woodworking mags before I buy.  Most of the reviews rate the Grizzly very high.  Recently bought a G0555X Bandsaw and it is fantastic.  But I do my turning on a old Shopsmith or home-made treadle lathe, so go figure.


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## Mac (Dec 9, 2009)

I have a grizzly 1220 vari speed lathe, the switch has been replaced once and is rigged now, on the on position, by way of surge protector, I use the switch on the surge protector to turn on and off.. Both the adjustable handles one on the toolrest and the other on the tailstock are stripped ( I made some similar to the nova) I called about the switch that needed to replaced ,for the second time ,and my warranty had just ran out by two days. So that is two switches within warranty plus two days. I think dust was the culprit, I asked if they had a better switch and was told no. I told them right then and there that I could not recommend that lathe to anybody and I won't .Also the head and tail don't line up. I first did't think it was that bad ,until I started making pendants, when I bring up a piece of wood to hold my piece on the lathe ,while I turn it round, it makes a god awful noise and was told at SWAT by an experienced woodturner that the noise was caused by, not being lined up. I also have the 14" ultimate bandsaw and it was fine ,until I added the 6" extension block, now it cuts inward and I am going to have to take apart and sand surface or move pin? ,I just need a day or two to rework the fit, and the instructions said nothing about this. They just said unbolt and add and rebolt sounds simple don't it.
I also have a chuck I really like it. and I have two 60 degree live centers one MT1 and the other MT2 they have been great also. By the way both the lathe and the bandsaw are made in an ISO factory.
I will continue to buy from grizzly, BUT ,will be very (diligent) in my decisions.


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## Russianwolf (Dec 9, 2009)

Funny, the only problem that I've had with a grizzly (my g0462 lathe) is the tailstock handwheel wearing prematurely because ts cast from a softer metal. I replaced the set screw  with delrin and the wear is now all but eliminated. They even offered to replace the handwheel AFTER my warranty expired. So my experience with Grizzly customer service is a big thumbs up.

On the tool rest, I had Johnnycnc make me an adapter to us a 6 inch toolrest I had bought for my Turncrafter lather earlier, but I haven't even used it in about a year, using the standard cast iron 12 inch rest (which mine is VERY hefty) with my long handle tools means I don't have to have the rest right up against the material. All I'll say is it works for me.

I've always heard rave reviews of thew jointers and planers, and I plane on getting one fairly shortly too.


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## sbell111 (Dec 9, 2009)

Russianwolf said:


> ... I've always heard rave reviews of thew jointers and planers, and I *plane* on getting one fairly shortly too.


<Groan>


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## PTownSubbie (Dec 9, 2009)

My experience is YES.

I purchased a 2HP canister dust collector a couple weeks ago and if you are not careful, that thing will suck you in the suction hose. It performs like nothing else I have seen!!

The inlet was slightly damaged during shipment. I sent a picture and a new part shipped within a day or two of reporting it. Customer Service is good from what I hear and my one experience.

Time will tell on longevity but I have high hopes.


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## Pen_Turner (Dec 9, 2009)

Mac said:


> I have a grizzly 1220 vari speed lathe, the switch has been replaced once and is rigged now, on the on position, by way of surge protector, I use the switch on the surge protector to turn on and off.. Both the adjustable handles one on the toolrest and the other on the tailstock are stripped ( I made some similar to the nova) I called about the switch that needed to replaced ,for the second time ,and my warranty had just ran out by two days. So that is two switches within warranty plus two days.
> Yeah the power switch on mine was GARBAGE too. I also had poor handles as well


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## marcruby (Dec 9, 2009)

It seems that there is always a controversy about Grizzy.  Based on everything I've seen and heard, it looks to me like they simply pay a little less for quality control than do Jet and Delta (and whoever else uses that manufacturer).  The result is that sometimes you get a good machine and sometimes you don't.  Since you live close you can probably manage to get exactly what you want.  But for people who have to put effort into getting a tools from them the question isn't whether you can afford a good one but if you can afford one that ain't quite so good...


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## Mr Rules (Dec 9, 2009)

I have a Grizzly table saw, drill press, jointer, and planer and love them all.  I had one issue when I set up the planer because a part was broken.  Grizzly sent a replacement overnight and I haven't had any problems since.  

Stu


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## jimbob91577 (Dec 9, 2009)

I have the G0462 Lathe.  I've owned it for about 4-5 years now.  The switch failed within the warranty period, but Grizzly replaced it for free.  The spring loaded adjustable handles stripped out about 18 months later, and I used JBWeld to make them simple adjustable handles (I have never liked the spring loaded handles on anything that I've ever used, Grizzly could have used something else instead...but i digress).  The head and tail stock issue noted here is an inconvenience for me, but is easily solved by tightening the nut that holds the tail stock locking mechanism on or re-adjusting the headstock.  Finally, the electronic tachometer that came with the lathe failed during warranty, but I didn't bother trying to replace it as I never used it anyway - i simply took it off the lathe and use the top of the headstock as an arm rest when I'm turning small items.  

My annoyances with this lathe:  I do not like where the speed control lever is situated - it interferes with me when I turn small things at fast speeds.  I'm not a big fan of the articulated banjo.  I could use a smaller, 6-8", tool rest when turning pens and knobs, but this isn't a life ending catastrophy.

With all that said - I would purchase this lathe again in a heartbeat, if only because it saved me A LOT of money when compared to similar features in other lathes, and I've turned a lot of things on it in the time that I've owned it.  I went into this purchase with the understanding that this would not be my last lathe, and that I would purchase a new "cadallac" lathe in 5-10 years.  I'm at the 5 year mark and I don't expect to purhchase a lathe for at least 2 more years.

I also own 2 of their cheap scroll chucks - 1 for my G0462 and another for my mini lathe.  I've had absolutly no problem with these chucks other than remembering which way tightens them versus which way loosens them (Operator Error?).

The company that I work for uses Grizzly dust collection systems in the R&D department.  I cannot speak to the reliability of that equipment because I haven't used it, however I can't imagine that the company would purchase several of these units if they continuously failed.


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## Bree (Dec 9, 2009)

johnm said:


> I need to get a jointer, and Grizzly has some tremendous prices, plus there is a store within driving distance, so there would be no shipping, my question is, does anyone have any experience with them, are they good tools, or would i be better spending the money on a Jet/Powermatic type brand.
> 
> John


 
I have been using a Grizzly G0452 6" Jointer for a couple of years and I have never had a problem with it.  I think it's a great tool at a great price.  Are there better?  Yes.  At the same price?  No.
:wink::wink::wink:


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## jasontg99 (Dec 9, 2009)

jtpalmer said:


> I'm new here, but thought I'd add something to the discussion. I recently bought a Grizzly G0462 lathe. When I assembled it, I aligned the head and tail, only to disover they were off by about 1/8". Now, the headstock does swivel, so that was easily fixed. But in the preset position, where the head snaps into place for turning over the bed, it was off. The biggest problem is the tool rest. It is very light weight and vibrates badly. It is also 12" long, which is of course not good for turning pens. I contacted Grizzly to see if they had an overall upgraded tool rest, or if I could buy an additional, shorter rest. Got a very brief reply stating that was all that was availble, and any attempts to modify it would void the warranty. They just didn't seem very helpful.
> I guess the lesson is, buy cheap tools and live with the consequences! I probably won't buy much from them again, myself.


 
Rick is a great guy to deal with and his rests are top quality.   http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=52175


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## Texatdurango (Dec 9, 2009)

jtpalmer said:


> I'm new here, but thought I'd add something to the discussion. I recently bought a Grizzly G0462 lathe. When I assembled it, I aligned the head and tail, only to disover they were off by about 1/8". Now, the headstock does swivel, so that was easily fixed. But in the preset position, where the head snaps into place for turning over the bed, it was off. The biggest problem is the tool rest. It is very light weight and vibrates badly. It is also 12" long, which is of course not good for turning pens. I contacted Grizzly to see if they had an overall upgraded tool rest, or if I could buy an additional, shorter rest. Got a very brief reply stating that was all that was availble, and any attempts to modify it would void the warranty. They just didn't seem very helpful.
> I guess the lesson is, buy cheap tools and live with the consequences! I probably won't buy much from them again, myself.


 
An 1/8" is a LOT... WOW!

As to the comment about the warranty being voided, that doesn't sound right.  I can't imagine anyone in customer service or tech support telling you such a thing. Maybe the janotir was watching the switchboard when the operator went for a potty break.


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## MesquiteMan (Dec 10, 2009)

I am an admitted tool snob.  I believe in buying the best you can afford and that there is a huge difference in quality in most of the better name brands.  I do make my living with tools and will not use cheap stuff.

That said, last Thanksgiving, Grizzly had one heck of a Black Friday sale and then Microsoft Live had a really good cash back on anything bought with buy it now on E-bay.  I then also had a coupon code for using Paypal.  The deal allowed me to stack all of this together and I really wanted an 8" jointer so I took the plunge.  I got a Grizzly GO586 for around $450 delivered.  It was too good of a deal to pass up and I figured that if it was not up to snuff quality wise, I could always sell it on Craigs list for what I paid.

I have been pleased with the jointer considering what I paid for it.  It is certainly not the quality of my custom cabinet maker's Delta 8" jointer but then again, I did not pay $1800 for it either.  For my advanced hobbyist needs, it does the job very well.

The fit and finish is pretty good and it works nicely.  You can certainly tell the difference in that it uses a cheap chinese motor and the controls and castings are not nearly the quality of the Delta I mentioned.  It does joint a board very nicely, though and was a big improvement over my little 6" I had before.

I would certainly buy it again at the price I paid.  Not sure I would pay the $800+ regular price for it, though.


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## Rifleman1776 (Dec 10, 2009)

Most of my major tools are Grizzly. I drive to pick up new purchases.
I have always defended Grizzly because of top quality and unexcelled service.
Most of the complaints I hear about Grizzly stem from the fact they are Chinese made. Taiwan actually. This complaint is not often voiced about Jet and many others that come off the same assembly lines.
Check out the major corporations that use Grizzly tools exclusively in their factories.
Personally, I recommend.


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## Pen_Turner (Dec 10, 2009)

Rifleman1776 said:


> Most of the complaints I hear about Grizzly stem from the fact they are Chinese made. Taiwan actually. This complaint is not often voiced about Jet and many others that come off the same assembly lines.
> Check out the major corporations that use Grizzly tools exclusively in their factories.
> Personally, I recommend.


    I'm honestly NOT trying to be a jerk here but, IF THEY COME off the same assembly line, then why is there such a HUGE difference in build quality? Even Curtis said in the post above you that He could certainly tell the difference in the Cheap motor, controls and castings in his grizzly and it was not nearly the quality as the name brand tools. Will it joint a board, yes, but to say they are coming from the same factory I find hard to believe. I DO NOT have a problem with people liking their Grizzly tools. They seem to get the job done for some of us but to put them in the same class as Jet, thats a little much.


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## Russianwolf (Dec 10, 2009)

Pen_Turner said:


> I'm honestly NOT trying to be a jerk here but, IF THEY COME off the same assembly line, then why is there such a HUGE difference in build quality? Even Curtis said in the post above you that He could certainly tell the difference in the Cheap motor, controls and castings in his grizzly and it was not nearly the quality as the name brand tools. Will it joint a board, yes, but to say they are coming from the same factory I find hard to believe. I DO NOT have a problem with people liking their Grizzly tools. They seem to get the job done for some of us but to put them in the same class as Jet, thats a little much.



The same way Chevys and Cadillacs come off the same lines. The difference is the acceptable tolerances for each brand.

Have a look at many of the tools on the market and you'll see that castings are identical. One major example I can point at are Ryobi and Craftsman. For years Craftsman has been slapping their name on many tools that are Ryobi designs with only minor differences in the plastic pieces. The final specs need to meet Craftsman's spec, but the tools come off the same lines.

The manufacture doesn't want to throw out product that doesn't meet spec, so they simple find someone to sell the lower spec tools. AKA Harbor Freight. So any one factory may supply a dozen vendors based on the spec of the final tool.


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## Pen_Turner (Dec 10, 2009)

Russianwolf said:


> The same way Chevys and Cadillacs come off the same lines. The difference is the acceptable tolerances for each brand.
> 
> Have a look at many of the tools on the market and you'll see that castings are identical. One major example I can point at are Ryobi and Craftsman. For years Craftsman has been slapping their name on many tools that are Ryobi designs with only minor differences in the plastic pieces. The final specs need to meet Craftsman's spec, but the tools come off the same lines.
> 
> The manufacture doesn't want to throw out product that doesn't meet spec, so they simple find someone to sell the lower spec tools. AKA Harbor Freight. So any one factory may supply a dozen vendors based on the spec of the final tool.


   I can understand that and it makes sense, but Jet tools don't go down the same assembly line as grizzly's. Thats all I am really trying to say.


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## jleiwig (Dec 10, 2009)

Pen_Turner said:


> I can understand that and it makes sense, but Jet tools don't go down the same assembly line as grizzly's. Thats all I am really trying to say.


 
Can you prove it?  

The larger Jet lathe is identical to the Grizzly and Harbor Freight version except for a cheaper motor and the above mentioned tolerance issues done to save money.  

How do you know besides just making a judgement that they don't come off the same assembly line? 

Please show me some factual evidence and not conjecture to support your conclusion, or just admit that it's your way of justifying spending hundreds of dollars more for something that's only an incremental improvement.  

At least Curtis admits he's a tool snob, and I respect that.  But to blindly make assumtions based on a brand name is assinine. 

I don't have a side in this fight either way as I've owned tools from both sides of the isle, but I won't blindly believe something or repost mindless drivel without direct experience or factual evidence to back it up. 

We all know that it won't be identical, as it well shouldn't be at a 30-50% cost savings.  

To use Frank's analogy, you should know your not getting a caddilac when you purchased a pinto. Will it work?  Yup.  Will it be perfect in every way?  Not a chance.


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## Russianwolf (Dec 10, 2009)

Certain parts likely do come off the same lines, then go in different directions based on the specs they meet.

Example. I can see in my head all the castings coming out off line A. Someone at the end grades the casting and sends the best to line B, the slightly rough one to line C and the worst of the functional ones to line D, rejects going back to the smelter. Line B then uses better grade motors,etc. to make the JET, Line D uses okay motors and part to make Grizzly, and line D slaps what they can find on to make Harbor Freights.

Now I haven't seen the lines for these tools, but I did summer work in a factory here in the states and this process what what I commonly saw happening. There may have been even more "grading stations" depending on the complexity of what was being made.


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## Daniel (Dec 10, 2009)

Pen_Turner said:


> I can understand that and it makes sense, but Jet tools don't go down the same assembly line as grizzly's. Thats all I am really trying to say.



John, Actually this is exactly what they are saying. They are also correct. Yes both tools where built on the same line. one got a better and higher cost motor, better quality handles, probably better quality and more expensive nuts and bolts even. drive belts are better quality and this does give better performance. It also received machining to higher tolerances and such. Can all of this justify two to three times the price? Yes very likely. A motor that cost twice as much, nuts and bolts that can easily cost three times as much. the time it takes to finish machining to fine tolerances all add to the cost of equipment fast. hand wheels knobs and whatever that are higher quality are expensive as well. 
If you are able to identify the differences though you can take a lower cost machine and finish it to the same specs as the higher cost machines. and still save a ton of money. I now have two pieces of equipment in my shop that I am doing this with. and both started off working well within my needs, I continue to get them to preform even better. But it does require knowing just what you are looking at and what it needs to look like when you are done.


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## Pen_Turner (Dec 10, 2009)

jleiwig said:


> Can you prove it?
> 
> The larger Jet lathe is identical to the Grizzly and Harbor Freight version except for a cheaper motor and the above mentioned tolerance issues done to save money.
> 
> ...


  CAN YOU PROVE IT? An assembly line, is an assembly line correct? Then how does it get assembled with ALL kinds of different parts including motor? Oh I don't know, maybe it goes down a different assembly line? This is where the grizzly lathes seem to fail, power switches and their metal handles!! Otherwise they seem to be an ok tool.
  How do you know (besides making a judgement) that they DO come off the same assembly line?
  I don't have any factual evidence and neither do you, but if the bed is the same or the legs are the same and EVERYTHING else is different, than they ARE NOT the same machine, and I can't believe they went down the same assembly line. Nobody said that grizzly's wont work. I've had 3 of them. I also own Jet tools.
   If you want me to admit that I'm a tool snob, than yes sure I DO USE and PREFER the name brand tools. I guess that makes me a snob?
   This was never meant (by me) to be a "fight" and it's not, in my eyes!!  This is someones thread, not a boxing ring!!  but when you come in here calling me "assinine" and to say that I'm posting "mindless drivel", thats stupid and RUDE sir. All because what, I don't believe that Jet tools are the same as Grizzly's?
   I'm happy for Everybody that uses grizzly and has good luck with them. I DO NOT HAVE a problem with people using them. I DON'T think any less of you if you do use their tools!!  With that being said I hope we can put this to rest. I guess we will have to see things differently on this.


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## Pen_Turner (Dec 10, 2009)

Russianwolf said:


> Certain parts likely do come off the same lines, then go in different directions based on the specs they meet.
> 
> Example. I can see in my head all the castings coming out off line A. Someone at the end grades the casting and sends the best to line B, the slightly rough one to line C and the worst of the functional ones to line D, rejects going back to the smelter. Line B then uses better grade motors,etc. to make the JET, Line D uses okay motors and part to make Grizzly, and line D slaps what they can find on to make Harbor Freights.
> 
> Now I haven't seen the lines for these tools, but I did summer work in a factory here in the states and this process what what I commonly saw happening. There may have been even more "grading stations" depending on the complexity of what was being made.


  Agreed, I can see that.


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## MesquiteMan (Dec 10, 2009)

Let's all slow down a little and REMEMBER, WE ARE ALL SUPPOSED TO BE FRIENDS HERE!  

Curtis O. Seebeck
IAP Head Moderator


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## Pen_Turner (Dec 10, 2009)

Daniel said:


> John, Actually this is exactly what they are saying. They are also correct. Yes both tools where built on the same line. one got a better and higher cost motor, better quality handles, probably better quality and more expensive nuts and bolts even. drive belts are better quality and this does give better performance. It also received machining to higher tolerances and such. Can all of this justify two to three times the price? Yes very likely. A motor that cost twice as much, nuts and bolts that can easily cost three times as much. the time it takes to finish machining to fine tolerances all add to the cost of equipment fast. hand wheels knobs and whatever that are higher quality are expensive as well.
> If you are able to identify the differences though you can take a lower cost machine and finish it to the same specs as the higher cost machines. and still save a ton of money. I now have two pieces of equipment in my shop that I am doing this with. and both started off working well within my needs, I continue to get them to preform even better. But it does require knowing just what you are looking at and what it needs to look like when you are done.


   I see. I can buy that. So the Jet and the Grizzly would share the same body or cast but be very different animals, correct? If they are built in the same building I can understand, but they will be different machines totally when finished. So they DO technicaly start out on the same assembly line. I see. That I can understand


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## jleiwig (Dec 10, 2009)

Pen_Turner said:


> I see. I can buy that. So the Jet and the Grizzly would share the same body or cast but be very different animals, correct? If they are built in the same building I can understand, but they will be different machines totally when finished. So they DO technicaly start out on the same assembly line. I see. That I can understand


 
Sorry if I came across as rude...my appologies

I'm just constantly amazed at the ongoing thing with people bashing stuff they don't have a clue about and I took it out on you in particular today.


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## Pen_Turner (Dec 10, 2009)

jleiwig said:


> Sorry if I came across as rude...my appologies
> 
> I'm just constantly amazed at the ongoing thing with people bashing stuff they don't have a clue about and I took it out on you in particular today.


   I'm sorry as well. Iunderstand that I WAS NOT perfectly clear in the biginning as to what I believed about these 2 machines. I'm glad we could all clear this up. Again, sorry Justin


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## bitshird (Dec 10, 2009)

Guys, you should see the size of these plants, the casting plant may be in one city and take up a bunch of acreage, they kick out bed and headstock and tailstock castings by the thousands, then a QC they separate the better ones and send them to Jet or whomever they are taken to another plant where the castings are machined and then on to cleanup and assembly, This is where the difference comes some of the assembly and clean up is done to Jet standards fitted with quality components painted white assembled and shipped, Steel City is a small step down, they don't do quite as good of a job deburring the castings, but the rest of the machining is decent, THEN it gets down to the lower quality motors, less time spent on cleanup, cheaper electrical components and we have Grizzly and HF. I saw some pictures taken by one of the US Partners of Steel City, These factory shops are unreal in size, Most of them are outfitted with American CNC Mills and Lathes, it's basically how much does the brand want to pay for a finished product. These factories are the size of some small US cities.


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## KD5NRH (Dec 10, 2009)

Russianwolf said:


> Example. I can see in my head all the castings coming out off line A. Someone at the end grades the casting and sends the best to line B, the slightly rough one to line C and the worst of the functional ones to line D, rejects going back to the smelter. Line B then uses better grade motors,etc. to make the JET, Line D uses okay motors and part to make Grizzly, and line D slaps what they can find on to make Harbor Freights.



More likely, it's a matter of:
There are x orders for product A, with a +/-.001" tolerance, y orders for product B with a +/-.005" tolerance, and a standing order for all the product C we can make, and Cs just have to look sorta right.  Once they've grabbed x meeting As standards, and y meeting Bs, everything else goes to C.  Some of those Cs may be as good as A, just as some Bs may.  Depending on the consistency of the process, most Cs will probably meet Bs standard, but some will be junk.  That's why, every now and then, you find a no-name tool that really is just as good as the big name.


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## TowMater (Dec 11, 2009)

I've wanted to respond to many of these post, but have been able to hold back.

OP, have you made a decision about the JOINTER you asked about?

If you were close I'd welcome you into my shop to test drive mine, that offer stands to anyone in the KC Metro area, if I have a tool in my shop your pondering buying you are welcome to contact me and setup a time to come try it out.


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## Rifleman1776 (Dec 11, 2009)

jtpalmer said:


> I'm new here, but thought I'd add something to the discussion. I recently bought a Grizzly G0462 lathe. When I assembled it, I aligned the head and tail, only to disover they were off by about 1/8". Now, the headstock does swivel, so that was easily fixed. But in the preset position, where the head snaps into place for turning over the bed, it was off. The biggest problem is the tool rest. It is very light weight and vibrates badly. It is also 12" long, which is of course not good for turning pens. I contacted Grizzly to see if they had an overall upgraded tool rest, or if I could buy an additional, shorter rest. Got a very brief reply stating that was all that was availble, and any attempts to modify it would void the warranty. They just didn't seem very helpful.
> I guess the lesson is, buy cheap tools and live with the consequences! I probably won't buy much from them again, myself.



The instruction manual discusses the headstock movement. It is simply a fact of life with a swiveling headstock. Realigning only takes seconds. My tool rest is typical of those I see on other brands, very stout. Most lathes do not come with small rests to suit penturners. I bought a second rest and cut down to size with a grinder and cutting wheel. Other times I have the local weld shop custom make rests I need. This is your problem, not Grizzly generated. Would a long reply have made you happier? Yes, cutting up equipment will void warranties with any product. They answered your questions accurately. What more would you expect?


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## Rifleman1776 (Dec 11, 2009)

PenTurner said, in response to one of my posts: "....to say they are coming from the same factory I find hard to believe."

Perhaps you would like to rephrase that so it does not sound so much like you are calling me a liar.
Here is the factory: http://www.geetech.com.tw/

As far as other steps are concerned. I have talked with someone who toured the factory. Many of the Jet and Griz products are virtually identical. There are some differences with some products.
Before I purchased my Grizzly G0632, I had extensive communications with reps from both Grizzly and Jet with respect to the differences between the G0632 and 1642. Those differences have been posted and discussed here several times, I won't go into them again. Most differences are, really, in the imagination of the viewer.
If you noticed, many of the anti-Griz folks preface their comments with: "it seems like" or "I believe", etc. Facts can get in the way of reasoned discussion.


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## Daniel (Dec 11, 2009)

Curtis, People that buy tools to actually "Make" money don't count. We all buy tools to spend money  Actually I have spent quite a bit of time on your side of the tracks and I do realize why $300 circular saws make perfectly good since. I own two of them. I also have $450 nail guns $60 hammers and all that. When your pay check depends on it cheap is not acceptable. I also know that a lot of that experience comes into play even when I choose my toys. But it is experience that makes the difference. I believe you have to have used a $60 hammer for lots of hours to finally realize why it is worth $60. actually it is more like use a $60 hammer for a while than try to use a $12 one you will feel the difference instantly.  then you can start seeing why a $750 lathe can be better than a $250 even if they look exactly the same. Until someone has that experience all you can really say to them is. There really is a difference. when you tighten something it stays tight, they hold up longer, they are balanced better and are more precise. tools get sharper in the first place and stay that way longer. when the gauge says 1 and 1/16 inch it means 1 and 1/16 inch. etc. Just the other day my son was fighting to loosen a nut. I went in my shop and got him my craftsman wrench and he loosened it on the first try. I just looked at him and said, one more lesson on why good tools are worth the cost. that one wrench cost more than your entire set of wrenches, but it also works. even in something as simple as a wrench, quality makes a difference. and quality comes at a price. this does not mean you need to always buy the most expensive tool. it does mean you need to be able to recognize what makes a quality tool and what does not and you can pretty much bet you will not see much of it in the lowest priced tools.



MesquiteMan said:


> I am an admitted tool snob.  I believe in buying the best you can afford and that there is a huge difference in quality in most of the better name brands.  I do make my living with tools and will not use cheap stuff.
> 
> That said, last Thanksgiving, Grizzly had one heck of a Black Friday sale and then Microsoft Live had a really good cash back on anything bought with buy it now on E-bay.  I then also had a coupon code for using Paypal.  The deal allowed me to stack all of this together and I really wanted an 8" jointer so I took the plunge.  I got a Grizzly GO586 for around $450 delivered.  It was too good of a deal to pass up and I figured that if it was not up to snuff quality wise, I could always sell it on Craigs list for what I paid.
> 
> ...


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## Daniel (Dec 11, 2009)

Frank, I followed your link and was actually surprised to find all the brand name logos lined up together at the bottom of this page. http://www.geetech.com.tw/sp.html
If that doesn't make the point then nothing does.


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## Rifleman1776 (Dec 11, 2009)

Daniel said:


> Frank, I followed your link and was actually surprised to find all the brand name logos lined up together at the bottom of this page. http://www.geetech.com.tw/sp.html
> If that doesn't make the point then nothing does.



Daniel, there are guys who would rather have a heart attack than admit brands like Powermatic, General, SawStop and others come from China and not the good ole U.S.A.
But, that's another gripe session.....


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## MesquiteMan (Dec 12, 2009)

Rifleman1776 said:


> Daniel, there are guys who would rather have a heart attack than admit brands like Powermatic, General, SawStop and others come from China and not the good ole U.S.A.
> But, that's another gripe session.....


 
My Delta Unisaw did not come from China!  It is one that used a US made motor, US made cast iron top, and US made trunions.  I am sure there are some parts on it made in China but it was assembled and most of the components are US made!  Not sure that is the case with the Unisaw now, though.


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## Rifleman1776 (Dec 12, 2009)

Daniel said:


> Frank, I followed your link and was actually surprised to find all the brand name logos lined up together at the bottom of this page. http://www.geetech.com.tw/sp.html
> If that doesn't make the point then nothing does.



Daniel, that is a fact of life these days. Not saying I like it. I do wish all my purchases, tool and non-tool, were items made in the US but it just ain't so anymore.
To analyze why would stray into the political arena. Upside is that companies like Geetech are building state of the art factories and turning out quality products.


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## KD5NRH (Dec 13, 2009)

Daniel said:


> Frank, I followed your link and was actually surprised to find all the brand name logos lined up together at the bottom of this page. http://www.geetech.com.tw/sp.html
> If that doesn't make the point then nothing does.



I've worked for a company that made products for at least four major brands, and it was always amusing to hear people talk about how much better the expensive brand was than the cheap ones when I'd just watched them roll off the same line and be divided up more-or-less randomly for final branding and packaging.


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## Rifleman1776 (Dec 13, 2009)

KD5NRH said:


> I've worked for a company that made products for at least four major brands, and it was always amusing to hear people talk about how much better the expensive brand was than the cheap ones when I'd just watched them roll off the same line and be divided up more-or-less randomly for final branding and packaging.



That is true with all kinds of products. I once read a review in an upscale magazine about some new hiking boots. The reviewer said they could be purchased at a certain upscale store for about $199.00, another well known store for about $100.00, then several more all with lower prices until he got to Wal-Mart, $19.96. The identical shoe in all stores. Label and snob appeal were the only differences.
We must look at the products and make the best judgement decisions possible for ourselves. Labels and prices are, IMHO, a poor guide to quality.


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## Mac (Dec 13, 2009)

Daniel said:


> Frank, I followed your link and was actually surprised to find all the brand name logos lined up together at the bottom of this page. http://www.geetech.com.tw/sp.html
> If that doesn't make the point then nothing does.



Wow ,check out that powermatic logo, how come you guys are not comparing Grizzly to Powermatic ????? I never seen a powermatic lathe clone at grizzly.

I don't know much but can tell you this ,worked in an industrial chromeplating plant that contracted with the local chain saw plant ,Anyway we would chrome plate both cylinders and pistons. the cylinders went in the better saws and the pistons went in the cheaper saws. You see you can't use chrome plated piston with a chrome plated cylinder. Its one or the other.

One more thing a company that has a good warranty is pretty confident in thier product. grizzly 1 year ----Jet 5 years. I can see the difference even before buying.


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## Rifleman1776 (Dec 13, 2009)

Mac said:


> Wow ,check out that powermatic logo, how come you guys are not comparing Grizzly to Powermatic ????? I never seen a powermatic lathe clone at grizzly.
> 
> I don't know much but can tell you this ,worked in an industrial chromeplating plant that contracted with the local chain saw plant ,Anyway we would chrome plate both cylinders and pistons. the cylinders went in the better saws and the pistons went in the cheaper saws. You see you can't use chrome plated piston with a chrome plated cylinder. Its one or the other.
> 
> One more thing a company that has a good warranty is pretty confident in thier product. grizzly 1 year ----Jet 5 years. I can see the difference even before buying.



Warranty is, indeed, an important factor in making a purchasing decision.
What and how a warranty is honored should also be considered.
For me, the one year with Griz is absolute and hassle free. This from experience.
In my case, the Griz store is 2 1/2 hours from my home and near where my son lives so I am up there frequently.
The closest stocking Jet dealership is more than six hours from my home.
My experience with most products is that if something is wrong, or going to go wrong, it us usually almost immediately.
Again, those are factors involved in the decision making process. It doesn't necessarily mean one is better/worse than the other.
I know what you are saying about motors and such. I bought a $125.00 Homelite chainsaw. It failed after two years of light use. I then bought a $350.00 Stihl and expect it to outlast me.


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## KD5NRH (Dec 14, 2009)

Rifleman1776 said:


> What and how a warranty is honored should also be considered.



+1  I've dealt with a lot of products that have long but useless warranties.  Either you can't get them to honor the warranty, or you have to pay shipping both ways at a significant portion of what it would cost to buy a lightly used replacement.


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## TellicoTurning (Dec 14, 2009)

mickr said:


> ...generally the more you pay the better the tool...are you a hobbiest? Or a pro?



This may or may not be true... you can pay big dollars and still get a crappy piece of equipment.. or you can lay out little and get an excellent tool... quality no long equates to price.  Granted some cheap tools are just that Cheap... 

And now-a-days, so many of our tools are coming from mega factories that turn out a multitude of brands... just different paint job.


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## TellicoTurning (Dec 14, 2009)

Pen_Turner said:


> Yeah the power switch on mine was GARBAGE too. I also had poor handles as well



I think the switches on most of our tools are poorly designed... I've had the switch go out on my HF dust collector, the HF belt sander, Jet 1014 lathe, Delta table saw... they are all designed the same way and the constant flipping on/off seems to wear and cause the plastic pieces to wear or break.


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## Russianwolf (Dec 14, 2009)

TellicoTurning said:


> This may or may not be true... you can pay big dollars and still get a crappy piece of equipment.. or you can lay out little and get an excellent tool... quality no long equates to price.  Granted some cheap tools are just that Cheap...
> 
> And now-a-days, so many of our tools are coming from mega factories that turn out a multitude of brands... just different paint job.



Case in point:
Still by far the best tool in my shop..... BT3100 Ryobi Tablesaw for $250(brand new from HD) and I'll put it's output against those of ANY table saw with the stock blade. And it's never given me a lick of trouble.

I've used a unisaw in my uncle's shop and even one of the fancy Laguna saws at one of the Navy Hobby shops, and my BT cuts as good as or better than both.


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## Rifleman1776 (Dec 14, 2009)

KD5NRH said:


> +1  I've dealt with a lot of products that have long but useless warranties.  Either you can't get them to honor the warranty, or you have to pay shipping both ways at a significant portion of what it would cost to buy a lightly used replacement.



I looked up the Jet five year warranty out of curiosity. Made a very surprising discovery.
Their warranty states, among other limitations: "This warranty does not cover defects...... due to normal wear-and-tear.......".
I guess that means if you don't use it during the five year period they might honor the warranty.


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## TellicoTurning (Dec 14, 2009)

Pen_Turner said:


> I'm honestly NOT trying to be a jerk here but, IF THEY COME off the same assembly line, then why is there such a HUGE difference in build quality? Even Curtis said in the post above you that He could certainly tell the difference in the Cheap motor, controls and castings in his grizzly and it was not nearly the quality as the name brand tools. Will it joint a board, yes, but to say they are coming from the same factory I find hard to believe. I DO NOT have a problem with people liking their Grizzly tools. They seem to get the job done for some of us but to put them in the same class as Jet, thats a little much.



You have to remember that each line will have their own specs... I worked for a company in CA years back that made an electronics switchboard.. this looked like a mini fridge that sat behind the receptionist desk and handled the switching of the phones... they're all hidden away now and look like an open panel, but ours was the latest thing on the market.... at the time, we made them under our own name and for a number of re-sellers under their name.... some of them had different specs as to how the boards were put together and what they were supposed to do.

And if you remember when Sears had their own line of appliances and sold only their line and was considered to be top of the line... they were made by other manufacturers, but had high specs than the manufacturer.  

Same will be true for the machines and tools we buy...


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## TellicoTurning (Dec 14, 2009)

Rifleman1776 said:


> That is true with all kinds of products. I once read a review in an upscale magazine about some new hiking boots. The reviewer said they could be purchased at a certain upscale store for about $199.00, another well known store for about $100.00, then several more all with lower prices until he got to Wal-Mart, $19.96. The identical shoe in all stores. Label and snob appeal were the only differences.
> We must look at the products and make the best judgement decisions possible for ourselves. Labels and prices are, IMHO, a poor guide to quality.



Frank,
That's funny... I've used this example a number of times... back in the mid '80's I was in partnership with a group of guys... we were actually an export packing and shipping company, but with ties to several companies overseas that exported to the US.  Three of my partners were of Jordanian descent with brothers and cousins all over the world.  One of our connections shipped shirts made in the IZOD knit style... the factory our contact worked at actually made the IZOD shirt, but they also made an unbranded shirt that we could get shipped, landed and duty paid into the US for $2.42 per shirt.. same shirt as the IZOD, but without the alligator. BTW because of duty regs, the IZOD shirt with the alligator cost $0.05 more in duty because it was "adorned".   
In 1985 the IZOD shirt sold retail in most of the normal retail stores - Mervyns, Sears, Macy's etc... for $18 to $30.... 
The same shirt without the alligator was between $10 and $15.

As I said earlier, Price has nothing to do with quality any more...it becomes a matter of personal preference.


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## MesquiteMan (Dec 14, 2009)

Rifleman1776 said:


> I looked up the Jet five year warranty out of curiosity. Made a very surprising discovery.
> Their warranty states, among other limitations: "This warranty does not cover defects...... due to normal wear-and-tear.......".
> I guess that means if you don't use it during the five year period they might honor the warranty.


 
Look at pretty much any warranty and it will exclude NORMAL wear and tear.  Warranties are for DEFECTS, not use.


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## Rifleman1776 (Dec 14, 2009)

Folks, I am getting weary of this Grizzly hate thread.
If you want to hate Grizzly without having facts at hand to back up your emotions, feel free to do so.
But, I would ask the mods to look carefully at the messages that say "I don't believe...." after I have posted links and references to support a statement. I don't appreciate being called a liar.
As for the Grizzly G0632 and Jet 1642, there are differences that have been discussed in the past. I have pointed out those researched differences.
But, in my opinion, there are no gross differences, I have the G0632 and have seen the 1642. Except for color, the differences cannot been seen.
I do understand that some of the Griz hate comes from the fact that the company founder and owner is of mid-eastern ethnicity. If you want to hate him and his company for that reason, I can't stop you. But, do know, he is a naturalized American and he supports American traditional values. Not the least of which is the 2nd Amendment.
If you want to hate for the sake of hating, go ahead, I'm not your judge. Spend your money where you will.
But, please do not try to advise others on their tool purchases based on your unreasoned beliefs.


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## jleiwig (Dec 14, 2009)

Rifleman1776 said:


> Folks, I am getting weary of this Grizzly hate thread.
> If you want to hate Grizzly without having facts at hand to back up your emotions, feel free to do so.
> But, I would ask the mods to look carefully at the messages that say "I don't believe...." after I have posted links and references to support a statement. I don't appreciate being called a liar.
> As for the Grizzly G0632 and Jet 1642, there are differences that have been discussed in the past. I have pointed out those researched differences.
> ...


 
Frank, it seems that your arguing with yourself there.  There hasn't been any hate on Grizzly for over two pages back.  Not even sure where the Middle Eastern stuff came from, but whatever.


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## KD5NRH (Dec 15, 2009)

Rifleman1776 said:


> I looked up the Jet five year warranty out of curiosity. Made a very surprising discovery.
> Their warranty states, among other limitations: "This warranty does not cover defects...... due to normal wear-and-tear.......".
> I guess that means if you don't use it during the five year period they might honor the warranty.



The next part makes it pretty much irrelevant for most here anyway: "Five Year Warranties do not cover woodworking (WW) products used for commercial, industrial or educational purposes. Woodworking products with Five Year Warranties that are used for commercial, industrial or education purposes revert to a One Year Warranty."

Make a pen with the intent to sell it, and you're using the equipment for commercial purposes.  Email them for warranty support on a 15-month-old lathe using an address like bubba@bubbaswoodturning.net and you might find your warranty expired.


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## jleiwig (Dec 15, 2009)

KD5NRH said:


> The next part makes it pretty much irrelevant for most here anyway: "Five Year Warranties do not cover woodworking (WW) products used for commercial, industrial or educational purposes. Woodworking products with Five Year Warranties that are used for commercial, industrial or education purposes revert to a One Year Warranty."
> 
> Make a pen with the intent to sell it, and you're using the equipment for commercial purposes. Email them for warranty support on a 15-month-old lathe using an address like bubba@bubbaswoodturning.net and you might find your warranty expired.


 
I think they could only prove that if you bought it tax exempt with a business license.


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## rjwolfe3 (Dec 15, 2009)

Technically you can't get tax exempt on items you are not reselling. At least not around my parts. Most tools are expected be have taxes paid since you are not reselling them to a customer. Most out of state websites do not charge sales tax over the internet and most states require a use tax on the other end.

I know when I worked for one company we had a policy about business use of our products not being covered, for example lifetime brake pads for fleet vehicles like taxis. We almost never enforced that warranty. We considered it good customer service to just take care of our customers.

I don't know about the companies that make our woodworking tools. I know that if I bought something brand new I would probably register it under my business name with these companies because I write it off on my taxes. I would hope that the companies would go above and beyond to take care of there customers but I know that is not always the case.


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## Rifleman1776 (Dec 15, 2009)

Justin
PM sent.


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## Rifleman1776 (Dec 15, 2009)

Chuck
PM on the way.


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## TowMater (Dec 18, 2009)

I think you guys scared the OP off with all of your non-jointer related comments.....


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## jleiwig (Dec 18, 2009)

TowMater said:


> I think you guys scared the OP off with all of your non-jointer related comments.....


 
Or he could be out in the garage setting it up, waxing the table, and admiring his Grizzly tool that he bought for half the price.  :biggrin:


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## KD5NRH (Dec 24, 2009)

jleiwig said:


> waxing the table



Is that what they're calling it these days?  :biggrin:


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## arjudy (Dec 24, 2009)

My FIL and I share a shop and we have a Grizzly bandsaw. The shaft on the lower wheel sheared off one day and they were able to get us the part we needed quickly. The saw works well for what we use it for but there are better quality saws out there.


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## Bree (Dec 24, 2009)

jleiwig said:


> Or he could be out in the garage setting it up, waxing the table, and admiring his Grizzly tool that he bought for half the price. :biggrin:


 
+1
:wink::wink::wink:


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## Grizz (Dec 24, 2009)

This has been a 'hoot' to watch.  All I know is, I wouldn't just go by what just one 'sight' had to share.  Check out more places and get an opinion.


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## Cindylee (Dec 26, 2009)

OK, here is my pennies worth...  I have a Grizzly lathe for my larger work and a Steel City mini for pens and small stuff.  I love my Grizzly and the only issue I have ever had with it was a blown fuse.  They were quite helpful when I contacted them but to be fair that was years and years ago.  I would buy Grizzly again but like many others I too shop around and try to get the most bang for my buck.  When I buy a tool I expect it to last me years and take daily heavy use.  So it has to last.  I have been very happy with Jet, Steel City and a few others as well.  If I were looking for a tool now I would look around and compare options and get the most options and best quality for the least price, not just look for the lowest dollar sign.  Just my humble opinion.


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## USAFVET98 (Dec 26, 2009)

I have the grizzly drill press and lathe and they seem to be fine. I like them.


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