# Questions about getting into Peppermills



## Dan Masshardt

I've been thinking about peppermills for awhile.  One of my hesitations has been the investment in all the bits and and extension etc. Not knowing if it's something I'll want to do regularly or not. 

I think I've decided on the crush grind mechanism to try.   It seems to have an excellent reputation.  

You guys that make these, are cheaper Forstner bits fine or do I need to jump in with the colt level?    I hate not knowing how deeply I want to invest in this to start. 

Does anybody have the mill drill from woodcut?   It looks pretty cool but not that cheap.  

Finally, on drilling through the blank, does anybody use a boring type bit rather than a Forstner?  

Is 1 1-16" really necessary or will 1" be fine?  I can't tell how important the through hole size is having not made one.  

Thanks for any input.


----------



## nativewooder

I think I would have a lot of trouble trying to get into a pepper mill!!!:biggrin:


----------



## ssajn

Dan,
You don't need the boring bit kit from Woodcraft. All you really need is a 1-1/16" forstner bit , an extension and smaller bits to drill in stages. Don't try to drill in one pass as you could burn up the bit. Drill all the stages from one side going in half way then turn the blank around and repeat. It doesn't matter if they meet perfectly inside. The only place 1-1/16" is critical is where the grinder goes in from the bottom. In fact if you didn't want to buy the bit you could probably use one inch and then open it up enough for parts to fit but that would reduce the volume of pepper corns.

Buy 1-1/16" Forstner Bit at Woodcraft.com


----------



## BayouPenturner

I several in the past, used forstner bits and purchased a pin point type 1" bit but have not used it yet.  They are not difficult but they can be a pain with the alignment and smooth movements.  Good luck.  I really found them to be a pain.


----------



## southernclay

Many people with more experience but happy to share mine. The super cheap bits aren't worth trying. I did. I was a little concerned I might set off the smoke detector! 

  You can use a 1" but I've used both and liked the fit with the 1 1/16" better.   I used wood river bits on the cherry burl set I posted and they worked great. No smoke. I got them from a member here used but they seem like a nice mid level option. You don't have to go too deep with the 1 5/8" so could always go mid level there and much nicer on the 1 1/16".


----------



## walshjp17

I've turned about 10 peppermills and have used Wood River forstner bits. (I now have a set of Colts but haven't used them yet.)  However, the WR bits are OK especially if you stop to sharpen them along the way.  When the bits get hot, stop to let them cool off.

If you turn the longer mills (10" or so) I would suggest an extension for the 1 1/16" forstner bit.  I've not had luck turning the blank around to drill from both ends (couldn't get the blank to stop wobbling -- probably my lack of experience and/or know how) so I always used an extension.


----------



## Jim Burr

I have a steady customer for mills. The crush grind is cool, just remember the groove you need to cut for the snap fitting in the base. Most mills only use 3 bits...but the through hole needs a quality 1-1/16" bit...it gets the most wear and abuse.


----------



## Dan Masshardt

Jim Burr said:


> I have a steady customer for mills. The crush grind is cool, just remember the groove you need to cut for the snap fitting in the base. Most mills only use 3 bits...but the through hole needs a quality 1-1/16" bit...it gets the most wear and abuse.



I think you're referring specially to the click in mechanism.  I was thinking more of the one with the shaft.  It calls for 4 bits.


----------



## Leatherman1998

I use this mill here, (6 in. Professional Stainless Steel Peppermill Kit at Penn State Industries) it isn't the one you were thinking of but it works great. (says mom) I use a mid-grade bit for this and sharpen it myself. I have used the same bit for about 15 mills and touchup after every one. (same for my SS mugs with a 2in bit) I use a 3in extension from Ace Hardware that I got for $15 and they have a longer 6in for $20 I think. 


Just my .02


----------



## RichB

I am just getting in to this.  I just bought the Wood River.  I had a couple of other WR and they worked fine.  Just don't horse them.  I bought the Crush Grind with the shaft  but not any blanks.  They cost a bit.   I have to do more searching, or make my own glued up with different woods.


----------



## Rick_G

I started out using the bits from a cheap set I had drilling from both ends.  Finally got the 1 1/16" colt maxi cut bit and drill extender from Lee Valley and am much happier.  Can drill from one end and no where near as much smoke.


----------



## Dan Masshardt

Isn't much the point of a Forstner bit to leave a relatively flat bottomed hole.  

I'm jus wondering / thinking that a auger boring bit might make more sense than a forstner for the long hole. 

I know Brendan stemp has a video showing he prefers them for deep drilling as it clears the swarth better.


----------



## ed4copies

Can you send a link to that vid, please.  I tried auger bits and never got them to cut, I'd like to see what I was doing wrong.

Thanks,
Ed


----------



## Gregf

Drilling deep holes on the lathe | You Turn with Brendan Stemp ?
Just started watching it.
Nope uses a long twist drill.
Funny he talks about the auger drill being his favorite but doesn't show it.

The Mill Drill he has on his site is interesting too.


----------



## Dan Masshardt

ed4copies said:


> Can you send a link to that vid, please.  I tried auger bits and never got them to cut, I'd like to see what I was doing wrong.  Thanks, Ed



This is the mobile link but I'm sure you'll figure it out. 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NCrETz4RTyM


----------



## MarkD

Dan,
I have made and sold a number of crush grind mills. I purchased the 5 piece Forstner bit set from Chefware for $56. Rather than cutting a groove for the mechanism I epoxy it in place. This was the suggested method I found on several websites including the Chefware site.
The bits are of pretty good quality. After 10-12 mills the bits are still working well. 

Forstner Set (5 pcs) for Making a CrushGrind Mill with Glue Peppermill Kits


----------



## TellicoTurning

Dan,
I do a lot of the crush grind pepper mills... I usually have a dozen or more in stock at any one time in my booth.  Everyone will have their own method of doing them, but here is how I work them.... I buy the $10+/- bits at Woodcraft most of the time... I only use 3 sizes in my mills, even though the directions will indicate 4...

I use a 1 3/4 at the very bottom, then drill through with the 1 9/16... this is the hole the mechanism fits into and also holds the supply of pepper corns... the third size I use is the 15/16 in the top for the little white part that holds and turns the shaft.... The directions will tell you that the through hold has to be 1 1/16 and the white top piece will fit inside and act as a tenon... I find that this allows too much movement side to side in the top, so I don't use the 1 1/16 drill bit, but cut a 1 1/2 to 1 17/32 tenon about 3/8 inches long that fits inside the through hole and stabilizes the top.

I use the cheaper forstner bits with an extension for the 1 9/16 bit to drill all the way through... drill slowly and back out often so as to not overheat the bit.  The cheaper bits from Woodcraft will last for a dozen or so mills and I have sharpened them on my 1 inch belt sander and gotten a little more use from them, but even the more expensive bits will go dull after about a dozen mills, so I think it's more economical to use the lesser priced bits... my opinion, not set in fact... 

After I have drilled the holes, I have a recess tool, (It's one I had when i was trying to learn to chase threads that is used to recess the wood at the end of the threads...)... I use that to cut a groove inside the top and body of the mills to accept the little fingers on the top of the mechanism... some directions will tell you to cut them away, but if you can put the groove in place, the fingers act as a compression spring and have a small hook that will fit into the groove and prevent the mechanism from being pulled out.  

Second step after I drill the holes, I set the top aside and turn the body... some turners will put the two pieces back together with the top piece in place and turn the mill as a single piece... I don't like to do that myself, I prefer to turn the as separate pieces.  I use a jam chuck that is tapped and threads onto my headstock spindle, then I have a turned jam chuck that will fit in the 1 3/4" hole at the bottom.  Turning is pretty much free form, what ever your design is.  Once you have it shaped and sanded to your liking, lay it aside and do the top...

I have a set of pin jaws that fits my PSI Barracuda chuck that fits inside the hold on the top piece... I put the top on them and move the tailstock up to hold until I'm almost done with the top... I then move it back and cut away the little tenon left where I hold it with the TS.... this is just a safety measure I use... I've had a few not hold on the pin jaws because I either didn't tighten them in the hole enough or I got too tight and split the wood, so I just snug them up and use the tailstock... most of my tops are rounded balls....

Most of my designs are relatively simple without a lot of beads or coves.  The round top I try to size to look pleasing in conjunction with the size of the body. 

On the through drill, if you're uncomfortable drilling all the way through or are worried that you might break out the top when the bits exits the wood, then the practice of switching ends and drill half way is a good practice... on longer mills, I have to do that as my extension is only about 9 inches.... btw, make sure your extension is pretty hefty... they will wobble and wander just a little, especially as your drill bit dulls. 

All this said, Ed Brown has a very good tutorial that he did on turning pepper mills... and I think there are a couple of others on YouTube.


----------



## neubee

I have made a few crush grind pepper mills; I had bought some WR bits from Woodcraft but have been really pleased with the Irwin bits I got from Lowes.


----------



## ssajn

The main reason I drill from both ends is if your drilling a segmented blank there is no guarantee the hole will come out centered if you do it in from one end. If it doesn't come out centered it looks crooked. Why mess up a blank you put a lot of time or money into.


----------



## Jim Burr

Dan Masshardt said:


> Isn't much the point of a Forstner bit to leave a relatively flat bottomed hole.
> 
> I'm jus wondering / thinking that a auger boring bit might make more sense than a forstner for the long hole.
> 
> I know Brendan stemp has a video showing he prefers them for deep drilling as it clears the swarth better.


 
Thinking there might be a lot of deviation with an auger bit? That's why drilling from both ends is used on mills with forstner bit. Don't know for a fact, but think it might be worse with an auger


----------



## jeweler53

I bought one of these:

1 PC New 27mm Wood Hole Saw Cutter Drill Bit DIY Woodworking Tools | eBay

I was worried about the price being indicative of the quality, but it is really nice, and really sharp!


----------



## seamus7227

I noticed at the end of one of his videos, he shares the name of the company that makes his nifty little cutter, called Woodcut Mill Drill™ Might be worth adding to the arsenal of tools I have!


----------



## Dan Masshardt

seamus7227 said:


> I noticed at the end of one of his videos, he shares the name of the company that makes his nifty little cutter, called Woodcut Mill Drill Might be worth adding to the arsenal of tools I have!



That thing is very cool. 

I need to make sure I'm into mills first though.


----------



## kyaggie

Dan,

I have done a lot of Crushgrind mills and I use some nice mid-range carbide forester bits that I get here... http://www.woodline.com/p-2695-carbide-forstner-bits.aspx Some nicer bits will make the mill experience MUCH nicer than the cheaper bits and these bits won't break the bank.

I drill a 1-3/4" first stage hole, a 1-9/16" as the second stage hole and a 1-1/16" through hole. As has been discussed by others, I epoxy the mechanism in (T-88 epoxy is awesome stuff) without removing the spring tabs.

Have fun,
Mike


----------



## Gregf

seamus7227 said:


> I noticed at the end of one of his videos, he shares the name of the company that makes his nifty little cutter, called Woodcut Mill Drill™ Might be worth adding to the arsenal of tools I have!


 

I ordered one last night.


----------



## Phil Hansen

TellicoTurning said:


> After I have drilled the holes, I have a recess tool, (It's one I had when i was trying to learn to chase threads that is used to recess the wood at the end of the threads...)... I use that to cut a groove inside the top and body of the mills to accept the little fingers on the top of the mechanism... some directions will tell you to cut them away, but if you can put the groove in place, the fingers act as a compression spring and have a small hook that will fit into the groove and prevent the mechanism from being pulled out.



Chuck I agree with you. 
I also use a recess tool. (easy to make) The mechanism hooks in there (not going anywhere) and no need for epoxy.
Also have a mill drill which is a great help
Phil


----------



## Dan Masshardt

You guys are talking about using the recess tool for the ones with the shaft right?  

I think the shaft less one requires it but if I'm reading correctly the tool helps the tabs to seat in all the crush grind styles.


----------



## raar25

Dan I broke down and bought a carbide 1 1/16 and am very glad I did.  I drill all the way through in one pass.  My HSS bit went dull very quickly.


----------



## Dan Masshardt

raar25 said:


> Dan I broke down and bought a carbide 1 1/16 and am very glad I did.  I drill all the way through in one pass.  My HSS bit went dull very quickly.



Which one?


----------



## Phil Hansen

Dan Masshardt said:


> You guys are talking about using the recess tool for the ones with the shaft right?
> I think the shaft less one requires it but if I'm reading correctly the tool helps the tabs to seat in all the crush grind styles.



Correct. Both types have tabs and the recess keeps the mechanisms in place.
Coming from Denmark they are a metric design so using metric bits gives a no slop
fit so no need for epoxy to fill the gaps.
22, 25, 38 and 44mm bits required.

Phil


----------



## Charlie_W

Hi Dan,

Our woodturning club buys mechanisms from ChefWare kits. Some feel their units are the best. We buy in bulk as many of our members turn pepper mills. You can just buy the long shaft kits and cut them to length to fit. Just cut off the bottom and peen it.
They also have bits and other accessories.
The salt grinders use a ceramic mechanism and have different shafts that prevent corrosion.

http://www.chefwarekits.com/peppermill-kits

Hope this helps.


----------



## Dan Masshardt

Lots of good comments.  Thanks all.  

What do you guys use for finish on mills?


----------



## raar25

*Carbide Fostner*



Dan Masshardt said:


> raar25 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dan I broke down and bought a carbide 1 1/16 and am very glad I did. I drill all the way through in one pass. My HSS bit went dull very quickly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which one?
Click to expand...

 

http://www.woodline.com/p-2695-carbide-forstner-bits.aspx

I have been buying woodline, very sharp and durable.


----------



## kyaggie

Dan Masshardt said:


> What do you guys use for finish on mills?



A generous bath of walnut oil (to really bring out the grain) and then gloss Craft Coat from Exotic Blanks (Exotic Blanks :: Tools, Glues & Finishing :: Finishing Supplies :: Craft Coat Finish - Pint Size Please Choose Type). I do 3 coats of Craft Coat (about 30 seconds between coats), wait 5 minutes, sand with 400 to smooth things out and then 3 additional coats of Craft Coat. The end result is a very durable and water resistant urethane based finish with a nice shine (but not an over the top shine).

Mike


----------



## kyaggie

kyaggie said:


> A generous bath of walnut oil (to really bring out the grain) and then gloss Craft Coat from Exotic Blanks (Exotic Blanks :: Tools, Glues & Finishing :: Finishing Supplies :: Craft Coat Finish - Pint Size Please Choose Type). I do 3 coats of Craft Coat (about 30 seconds between coats), wait 5 minutes, sand with 400 to smooth things out and then 3 additional coats of Craft Coat. The end result is a very durable and water resistant urethane based finish with a nice shine (but not an over the top shine).



Here is an example of this finish on some spalted pecan...


----------



## endacoz

*Anyone tried any of the starter kits*

I too have been wanting to get into pepper mills and have been following this thread for abit.  

Dan did you get some kits and bits?  What did you get and how did it work out.

I see that PSI has some pepper mill starter kits with the bits included.  Has anyone tried these combo starter kits?

PSI vs CraftSupply VS cheffware  vs Woodcraft vs Rockler in pepper mill kits?

I'd like to try some of the cheaper / smaller ones to start, but don't want to buy junk or something that will only last 6 months.  

Any suggestions on what kits to start with?


----------



## Dan Masshardt

I got the psi stainless 8" with starter kit.  Came out pretty good. Only 2 Forstner holes to drill.  

I have some more on order and some different kits including the ceramic mech.


----------



## TellicoTurning

Phil Hansen said:


> TellicoTurning said:
> 
> 
> 
> After I have drilled the holes, I have a recess tool, (It's one I had when i was trying to learn to chase threads that is used to recess the wood at the end of the threads...)... I use that to cut a groove inside the top and body of the mills to accept the little fingers on the top of the mechanism... some directions will tell you to cut them away, but if you can put the groove in place, the fingers act as a compression spring and have a small hook that will fit into the groove and prevent the mechanism from being pulled out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chuck I agree with you.
> I also use a recess tool. (easy to make) The mechanism hooks in there (not going anywhere) and no need for epoxy.
> Also have a mill drill which is a great help
> Phil
Click to expand...


I still epoxy my grinders in even with the groove in place... I use the imperial measured drills, so may have a hair of slop... I use the 5 minute epoxy from Exotic Blanks. 

Dan,
If you want the recess tool, I think PSI and CSUSA both sell one that has the depths already milled into the tool...I think it's a Sorby tool.... Mine is also a Sorby from the thread chase set and have marked it with a marker for the depths... in all the time I've made the crush grind mills, I've had one come loose and that was a time from before I started using the recess tool and epoxy... my very early mills were glued with thick CA... one of them did break loose, but before I had sold it, so customers haven't had any problems...


----------



## TellicoTurning

Dan Masshardt said:


> Lots of good comments.  Thanks all.
> 
> What do you guys use for finish on mills?



I use a wipe on polyurethane on mine... 8-10 coats with sanding between coats.


----------



## Animyzo

I picked up the short (3 1/8) mills with the ceramic grind. It takes 3 forsner bits to make.  SO far I like the kit quality (I got them from penn state industries). 

As for finish, i give them a good rubbing of mineral oil, then I use carnuba wax to bring it to a beautiful shine (plus its pretty durable)


----------



## broitblat

Dan,

You've seen a lot of good information, already.  I've turned a fair number of pen mills, and I've definitely found the benefits of using a carbide drill bit (at least for the through hole).  Nothing else stayed sharp long enough for me.

  -Barry


----------

