# Advice on hand guns



## OKLAHOMAN (May 15, 2015)

Dee and I are about to take hand gun courses in safety and concealed carry  . I'm looking to purchase two guns one for Dee who has very small hands and myself who also has smaller hands.


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## CREID (May 15, 2015)

Not a gun expert, but find a good reputable gun shop for advice, and just because she has small hands don't get a gun that won't stop an attacker. If your ever in a situation where you HAVE to shoot someone, you want them to go down! Having said that, I sincerely hope you never are in that situation.
Curt


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## Cmiles1985 (May 15, 2015)

I, personally, have two handguns (that I'll disclose). I bout both on account of safety and size. The first is a Walther PK380. I like it. It shoots well, small enough that it doesn't knock your hand around (or break your wrist), but enough to stop someone. It works in either single or double action. Single action requires very little pull, and is great if not a carry pistol. Double action requires 17# of pull, so you have to mean to shoot it (great for carry/not using safety). My second is the Ruger SR40C. I haven't shot this firearm extensively, but it's a compact, yet fairly heavy, gun. I don't think it kicks much, but my 11 year old does. It's heavy enough that the recoil doesn't feel that bad, and I have a far better grouping with this gun than the Walther. There are several safety features that I really like. Unfortunately, I haven't fired it enough yet to really give a solid recommendation (thus, the Walther is still my go-to).


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## notaryjon (May 15, 2015)

I personally carry a Bersa Thunder 380. Looks the same as the Walther PK 380 but a whole lot cheaper. And you don't have to worry so much about your high dollar gun getting knocked around. I used to tow semis for a living and my bersa got knocked around pretty good and after 4000 rounds of ammo through it I never have had a problem. I am a NRA instructor and always advise people to find a range that rents guns and go test different ones out and have some fun. If one or both have never shot much or not at all find an instructor to go to a range with you. NEVER should a spouse teach the other.  :biggrin: Better to let a 3rd party do the teaching. And I also have small hands.


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## target64 (May 15, 2015)

My best advise to you is go to a shop and just see what feels comfortable in your hands. Do you have any local shops that rent out guns or friends that will let you borrow theirs? If so try a few and see what you like. 

*But there are many factors to consider prior to a purchase..ie:* 
revolver or semi auto
caliber
safety or none
house gun or carry gun
manner of carry
ability to rack the slide

Just some thoughts:
The real small handguns like the Sig P238, Kel-Tec P3at, S&W bodyguard all are .380 caliber and are very easy to conceal and carry. But due to their size they are not a joy to shoot.

The single stack 9mm (XDS, Glock, Kahr) are relatively easy to shoot easy to carry and conceal. Hand size is usually not an issue.

The Double stack 9mm( XD,Glock ETC) Might be too big for your grip, try and see.


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## Paul in OKC (May 15, 2015)

Hey Roy, H&H in OKC rents guns to try out. Not sure of cost, but have been planning to do that myself one day.


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## jondavidj (May 15, 2015)

Hi Roy,

My conceal carry is a Kimber Solo. I love it. It is small and I have small hands. I like it because of the safety and it is on the frame of a 1911. 

Check with Ed Street too. He is always posting pictures of guns. I used Glocks and I hear the new Glock 43 is pretty good but I always feel better with my additional safety.

Just my opinion. Hope it helps!

Jon David Jones


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## stonepecker (May 15, 2015)

Small hands does not mean you have to shoot less then you want to. Any gun can be custom fitted. NOW, the real issue......Why do you want it? Just to have it?

Going somewhere you don't feel safe? Why go there? Want a gun in the house? You don't need a C&C. Out on the street? I would prefer you didn't take any gun out of the holster. To many people get shot just getting it out and then all it takes is someone who also has a gun to misread your intent and then guess who the target is.

I appluade your intent. The wisdom of getting lessons is great. But take a minute and be honest with yourself........"Do you really NEED this?"
And trying several handguns is the smart thing to do. Renting them is cheaper then getting more then you can handle.

BTW........I have 3 Colts-38 special. I have never found I needed more.


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## robutacion (May 16, 2015)

In my days as a Firearms instructor and IPSC (practical) competitor, that would be the  first question a new shooter would ask, what should I get, and while you have a variety of of situations where a weapon, is, will be or have the potential to be used, myself and some other more advanced shooters with a wider variety of firearms/weapons to chose from, I/we would allow, under very close supervision, each person to try different weapons and different loads combinations to suit each person's needs...!

As a "concealable", between male and female, different weapons offer different holsters and places where they can be carried so, going to a good hand gun club, speak to those in charge (normally the Instructors), and you can have that "hands on" contact, in a much more realistic shooting scenario.

There are some amazingly good YouTube videos, of either male and female concealable approved, that show you, the great diversity of holsters and hand guns combinations, to suit anyone and to be carried, in places that you not have even considered so, these are handy to watch.

What ever the road you take, best of luck.

Just a though...!  an obvious "carrier", is on its own, a self made target, do never point a weapon onto someone, unless you are "prepared" to shoot...!

Make note that I used the word "prepared" and not "going", the act alone can deter the offender, you have exactly 50/50 chances of going either way and unless, you are mentally prepared or at least, mentally aware of the possibilities and be trained/willing to act upon the threat, you better not carry and spend every second while doing so, over stressed, just not worth it...!

Best of luck...!

Cheers
George


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## Docholiday (May 16, 2015)

You definitely need to go to a gun shop that has a large selection and a patient staff and handle a lot of different guns.  What feels right to you and your wife probably won't be thd same one, but there may be overlap.  I bought a Glock 19 (9mm) which is a joy to shoot, but I found it a bit cumbersome to carry (which was my point with taking the CC class) and then there's the lack of safety on the Glocks that make me nervous to carry it chambered.  My wife had bought a Sig P938 (also 9mm).  It was so much smaller and easier to conceal, I got one also.  They are very customizable, but a bit pricey.   With the extended clip that lets my pinky be on the grip and a bit fatter grip than hers, it's also a joy to shoot.  Keep in mind the shorter you go to make it more concealable, the less accurate and maybe less fun for target shooting.  I love both of these guns though.


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## Joe Burns (May 16, 2015)

Get a good quality pistol that is comfortable to shoot and carry.  Might try renting and shooting some first before you purchase.  Probably a 380 or 9mm for her.  

I carry a Kimber CDP II Ultra 45 for both my CCL carry and also for my duty carry.  As for caliber you will get many different opinions.  Just dont go smaller than a 380.


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## Jim Crouch (May 16, 2015)

I have several types of hand guns. Pistols,and revolvers. I feel that the rovolver is the easiest to shoot, little chance of a misfire, and no chance to jam, you point and shoot. Also they are easy to reload. A pistol has to be racked to chamber a round. Some have strong springs on the slide, that make it hard to pull the slide back.The occasional jam can present a problem. My wife has med. size hands, but a weak grip. She finds it very difficult to slide the rack on my SIG P226 9mm. She loves my S&W 686 7 shot 357 Mag. She shoots 38 special lead  reloads, and often loads a random 357 mag just to keep her on her toes. Most gun ranges have loaner guns that you can rent at the range to try out different sizes and styles. Try many styles, sizes, weights, and cal. to see whet fits you best. Good luck 

                                                               TC Red


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## jsolie (May 16, 2015)

+1 on the Bersa thunder.  Can't get them anymore out here in LaLa land, don't want to get into it (forum rules and all), but they were on the short list for something for my wife to evaluate.

You also can't go wrong with a good 1911.  Kimber makes a number of pieces for concealed carry with softened corners and such.


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## manik (May 16, 2015)

I would ask around to find a registered hand gun instructor.
My friend taught me how and he is a NRA registered instructor.

After about an hour of basic safety and gun handling dos and dont's, let me touch a gun.
We started with a 22 wheel gun and moved to 38 spcl then 357 and 9mm and finally the 45.

The next weekend he out his automatics - again 22, 9mm and 45 acp with a selection of glocks, sigs, and 1911's.

This was great as I could try about every option out there and figure out which one I was most comfortable with.
I do not carry, my personal choice, but I do have a 1911 in 45 acp for use at the range.

Here is a book that I found interesting, I am not sure of the laws in your state, but still interesting to read and think about.http://www.amazon.com/After-You-Shoot-Your-Perps/dp/1889632260

I was at a gun show with my friend as he coached a lady on concealed carry options.
Some good things to think about are: how will it be carried, where-why might it be needed.

His input was to look at a revolver as ejecting the spent casing, from an automatic, inside a handbag or pocket will have a tendency to jam. Also, he recommended looking at hammer less options so as to minimize possible catching issues.

You will also have to think about how where you will carry your gun and what size you feel comfortable carrying - if not in a man purse lol.

The nice thing about finding a friend to teach you, they are not trying to make that sale today and you will not have to deal with the sales pressure.


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## Donovan (May 16, 2015)

I owned a gun shop for a long time. I have found that there are mostly two reasons for wanting a side arm. Personal protection ans sport shooting. 
When you want to get a carry gun you must buy a gun that you are prepared to carry in the biggest caliber available in the size of gun that you can shoot comfortably. Defense guns are useless if you do not have it with you at the time that you need it. 
You guys are lucky that you can rent or shoot various guns before you actually buy them. You will also find that you end up with a rack full of holsters because there is no one size fits all when it comes to holsters. You will find that different holsters work better depending on how you dress. 

Carrying a weapon is a big responsibility so make sure that you are up to it, practice more than what is necessary and you will not be sorry the day that you need to use it 

Donovan


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## jasontg99 (May 16, 2015)

Roy,

    As mentioned, going to a shop and feeling the gun in your hands is your best bet.  Once you select your guns, train, train, train with that weapon.  There is nothing worse than needing your weapon and forgetting where the safety is.  Another thing to think about for Dee, I HIGHLY suggest NOT carrying a gun in a purse.  Think about it, her purse gets stolen.  Now the criminal has her drivers license with your address and the keys to your house.....and now a gun.


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## plantman (May 16, 2015)

I have quite a few guns in my collection including 2 revolvers and one semi automatic. The 22 is kept in my shop and used on the occasional bold raccoon I can't catch in my live trap. Fun to shoot, but by no means a first line defense weapon. Second is a long nosed 38. much more accurate than a stub nosed, big, heavy, and hard to conceal. Good sidearm for hunting. Third is my wife's Lama 380 semi auto. Very small and compact, yet deadly when loaded with hollow tips. If I a going to carry, this is the gun I will take with me. Holster clips onto the belt or fits nicely inside of the front pocket of my jeans. Your instructor will probably tell you two things you may not be prepared for. First, if you do find yourself in a life threatening event, and you take your gun out of the holster and point it at someone be prepared to pull the trigger  and except any consequences that come from that action. Second will be where you aim. Head or heart will be your targets. There is a strange feeling of power when you have a weapon on you, but also a large responsibility in doing so. Each state has different rules for owning, carrying, and discharging a weapon, be sure you know yours !!   Jim  S


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## TonyL (May 16, 2015)

Went through this three years ago:

Apply for your concealed carry permit before you read this ; it may take a few weeks, months...

This was my process, but I am NO gun enthusiast, expert, don't even like them, etc.:

 - Decide on what you want to use it for, what you want to "stop" and where you will take it
 - Where you will store it and can carry it when in use (on you, in the car, in your home). Where will you wear it...around your waist (and where on you waist), ankle, pocket, etc.
 - How many rounds do you want it to hold
 - The cost and AVAILABILITY of ammunition - if for self-protection, hopefully you will never need it, but you will want to become proficient it shooting it (and caring for it of course).
 - I took a several hour and safety training course: one on one. I had never owned a gun
 - Fired dozens, read even more reviews, spoke to folks that I trusted for their opinion
 - Made my purchase based all of the above

Also:
 - Find a indoor or outdoor range that practices safety and provides a clean environment (air filtering, shell-free floors, etc.)
 - Fired close to a thousand rounds during my first four months of ownership

Don't forget to buy your hearing protection, glasses, cleaning and maintenance tools and supplies, and I bought a good quality range bag.

I hope this helps, but I am probably the last to person to ask. I replied because I just went through this process, and it worked out well FOR ME .


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## BSea (May 16, 2015)

I'd suggest that if (and this is a big if) you both like a particular style of gun, that you both get that style.  The reason is that stress can cause mistakes.  Should you ever need to use the others weapon, then it would be a good thing if the controls were identical.  I like 1911's.  I have a Dan Wesson CBOB for the cooler months.  But in the summer, I have a Kimber P238.  Even though the Kimber isn't technically a 1911, the controls are virtually identical.  

Most 1911s are single stack which means they are slim, and easier to conceal. Some models have aluminum frames which make them lighter for carry. Most are chambered in 45 ACP, but other calibers are available.


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## t001xa22 (May 16, 2015)

Roy, everyone here that has commented are giving some great advice. I hope you don't mind if I inject a comment or two. As a neighbor of yours (Texan), I have been a registered CHL holder since '96. I am so thankful that my gun has never had to be pulled for defense. For a lady, I would suggest a .380 semi or 9mm single stack because of their small size and weight. As mentioned, the rounds make the difference: use hollow-point or HydraShock for stopping power. For hammer styles, use the rounded style vs the spur style to minimize hang-ups during the draw. For yourself, basically the same things, except you might want to use a concealed holster. Many types are of the sub-compact range, so they often will fit in a pocket. The key to this is how you want to be able to draw. Finally, my current type is a .38 snubnose which I find easy to carry. As stated, the "wheel guns" are far less likely to malfunction. Good luck to you, Roy.


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## Akula (May 16, 2015)

Take her and let her decide what she likes.  Let her make decisions.  Let her handle the different styles.  Let her shoot them and let her decide what she likes.  Then after deciding on what she likes, take her to the range and let her shoot her gun.  See, the key is her and her decision.  I don't care how much you spend, what brand you buy...if she is not happy, she will not take it.

A range that will offer different guns to shoot and helpful suggestions/instruction is best.

Ownership is everything.  If she owns it, then she will carry it.  If she thinks it's "Your gun", then in time it will sit in a drawer/safe ect anyplace other than with her and you have defeated the reason for gun ownership.


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## Big (May 16, 2015)

The question of concealed carry is in response to self protection. That being said, it then becomes an issue of understanding the difference in caliber and quality. There are no end to small firearms in small caliber but do you want to risk your life on them? The answer is then a matter or marksmanship and the right caliber weapon. If you are very proficient with firearms and your marksmanship is very good, the caliber is of less importance as you will be able to hit what you aim at. If your marksmanship is less than stellar, you need to consider higher caliber weapons for "stopping power". If you shoot a very large man with a very small caliber weapon and hit him in non lethal areas, he could conceivably be shot numerous times and continue to charge you. If however you are a good marksman and can hit vital areas at will this is less of a problem. Higher caliber weapons with the proper ammunition is crucial. 

Build a good fundamental knowledge of firearms overall to build upon. Youtube would be a great source but nothing will beat hands on training with a good and reputable instructor and then lots, and lots of range time practicing shooting. I have spent a lot of time with my wife, kids, and friends helping them learn about firearms. 

It is troubling that we live in a world where such actions are required for self protection but when you have people who will even go into a church and begin shooting people, or a restaurant, or a shopping mall, or just about anywhere then yes, it is time for self protection. 

Feel free to call me or PM me anytime my friend and I hope that my two cents worth has helped.


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## low_48 (May 16, 2015)

Big said:


> The question of concealed carry is in response to self protection. That being said, it then becomes an issue of understanding the difference in caliber and quality. There are no end to small firearms in small caliber but do you want to risk your life on them? The answer is then a matter or marksmanship and the right caliber weapon. If you are very proficient with firearms and your marksmanship is very good, the caliber is of less importance as you will be able to hit what you aim at. If your marksmanship is less than stellar, you need to consider higher caliber weapons for "stopping power". If you shoot a very large man with a very small caliber weapon and hit him in non lethal areas, he could conceivably be shot numerous times and continue to charge you. If however you are a good marksman and can hit vital areas at will this is less of a problem. Higher caliber weapons with the proper ammunition is crucial.
> 
> Build a good fundamental knowledge of firearms overall to build upon. Youtube would be a great source but nothing will beat hands on training with a good and reputable instructor and then lots, and lots of range time practicing shooting. I have spent a lot of time with my wife, kids, and friends helping them learn about firearms.
> 
> ...



Nicely stated. I'm actually more concerned about being shot by a panicking, ill trained, self protector in their first situation, than a criminal. I've seen people handle high stress situations so poorly with no firearms involved, I shudder to think about them with a gun. Barney Fife comes to mind. Since you bring up the mass shootings, I really dread the situation where two dozen people in the crowd pull firearms, to return fire. With my advancing age, my ability to be able to drop to the floor quickly is starting to slow.


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## Smitty37 (May 16, 2015)

low_48 said:


> Big said:
> 
> 
> > The question of concealed carry is in response to self protection. That being said, it then becomes an issue of understanding the difference in caliber and quality. There are no end to small firearms in small caliber but do you want to risk your life on them? The answer is then a matter or marksmanship and the right caliber weapon. If you are very proficient with firearms and your marksmanship is very good, the caliber is of less importance as you will be able to hit what you aim at. If your marksmanship is less than stellar, you need to consider higher caliber weapons for "stopping power". If you shoot a very large man with a very small caliber weapon and hit him in non lethal areas, he could conceivably be shot numerous times and continue to charge you. If however you are a good marksman and can hit vital areas at will this is less of a problem. Higher caliber weapons with the proper ammunition is crucial.
> ...


My personal opinion is your fear is a tad misplaced for a number of reasons.  First, relatively few people carry, even where concealed carry is legal so your fear of a dozen people pulling to return fine is probably never going to happen.  There is no evidence that I know of that someone (anyone) is more likely to be shot by a legally possessed and carried firearm than by one in the hands of a criminal.  If you watched the Andy Griffith Show, you will recall that Barney Fife always handled his firearm safely and never took it out where it would have put anyone in danger.  In fact, he rarely drew it at all outside the "office".


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## plantman (May 16, 2015)

Akula said:


> Take her and let her decide what she likes.  Let her make decisions.  Let her handle the different styles.  Let her shoot them and let her decide what she likes.  Then after deciding on what she likes, take her to the range and let her shoot her gun.  See, the key is her and her decision.  I don't care how much you spend, what brand you buy...if she is not happy, she will not take it.
> 
> A range that will offer different guns to shoot and helpful suggestions/instruction is best.
> 
> Ownership is everything.  If she owns it, then she will carry it.  If she thinks it's "Your gun", then in time it will sit in a drawer/safe ect anyplace other than with her and you have defeated the reason for gun ownership.



That is a very good point !! If it is registered in her name, it is her gun, and she is more likely to be interested in shooting it !! Now if you order it in pink, it will really be her gun. Don't snicker, I have seen them and the owners are very proud of them. It's not how mean the dog looks, it's how deep he can bite !!    Jim  S


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## Smitty37 (May 16, 2015)

plantman said:


> Akula said:
> 
> 
> > Take her and let her decide what she likes.  Let her make decisions.  Let her handle the different styles.  Let her shoot them and let her decide what she likes.  Then after deciding on what she likes, take her to the range and let her shoot her gun.  See, the key is her and her decision.  I don't care how much you spend, what brand you buy...if she is not happy, she will not take it.
> ...


The only problem I see with that is that potential assailants might mistake it for something else rather than a gun, and while a gun would stop them a compact or cell phone or any of the many other items she might have in pink won't.


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## Tom D (May 16, 2015)

Hi Roy I just went through that I have a Browning Hi-Power but it is a bit large to carry. I went to a firearms store and handled as many pistols until I found one that felt good. I then went to their range, rented one etc. until I found the one I shot best that felt good. I got as FNS-9C I am left handed and my wife is right handed, it is fully ambidextrous.
Good luck


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## skiprat (May 16, 2015)

Roy, want my advise? 
My wife and I both carried guns when we lived in South Africa.

My Best advise is;

If you live in an area where you think you may ever need to use a gun to defend either yourself or Dee,, then move.......:wink:


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## jttheclockman (May 16, 2015)

The wild west lives on:biggrin: Does anyone take self defense classes any more???  Just thinking out loud. Where is Meaggie when you need him:biggrin:


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## alinc100 (May 16, 2015)

Having recently went thru the process for myself I'll interject a few thoughts.
You have received a lot of good advise. Renting a gun and range time with an instructor is a great idea.Also find a local gun shop,maybe even the same range and handle different guns until you narrow down rental choices. Here at most ranges your "on the clock" with rentals and range time not the best time to shop.
Personally for CC I love my Sig P938 9mm,but I have recently purchased a Sig P232 .380 cal that I intend to make my CC.I love the way it shoots but have not had enough carry time to give a full report.

Holster choices will leave your head spinning and your wallet empty quickly. What I have been doing is using an affordable Sticky brand holster and trying different methods of CC ,inside the waistband ,appendix carry,small of back carry ,etc. I find the Sticky holster to be versatile and allow me to try methods without committing to a more expensive custom/semi custom holster until I learn which method works best for me with each particular gun.

Also if you have a group of friend with handguns try as many as you can to see whats best for you.
I have found Hogue rubber grips and sleeves that fit my different guns as an economical way to fit a gun to my hand/reduce recoil/enhance grip etc. before looking at more expensive options like the rosewood grips I have on my SIG P226(9mm) ,they were not cheap but the gun is awful pretty. Not a gun I could even attempt to CC,but looks/carries well outside the waistband in an open carry situation.

Also do not be afraid to look into used guns after narrowing down your selections.The internet is full of places to look ,with reputable retailers and responsible gun owners as well. You may find a gem that saves alot for ammo,accessories,training ,etc.

And as others have stated training and practice are two of your best friends.Comfort and familiarity may save your life or the life of a loved one.

If I can answer or clarify any points don't hesitate to ask.


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## H2O (May 16, 2015)

Always utilize the four rules...

1. Treat every firearm as if it's loaded.
2. Never point a firearm at anything you are not willing to destroy.
3. Always be sure of your target and what is beyond it.
4. Keep your finger off the trigger until you are on target and ready to fire.

If you take any training, these will be the first things you will learn.

Secondly, if you plan to carry, KNOW the laws of your state and local.
If you plan to travel, KNOW the laws of the state(s) you travel. Their laws take precedence while in their state. This includes reciprocity.

Carrying a firearm is a huge responsibility and can cause you to spend time in the cage and enormous economical burden if the laws are not followed.

If carrying, I suggest a great attorney on retainer.


As for a firearm, the information that's been given is sound. Choose a reputable, quality manufacturer. You get what you pay for and your life may depend on it.
The caliber isn't important, today's ammunition is much better than when people said you have to have a .45 to stop a threat. And anything is better than nothing.
Just choose a firearm that is comfortable and you can hit the intended target with. If possible, try shooting as many firearms as you can to find the one that meet these.
Before purchasing, check your states laws on printing. This can cause you problems as well and should be considered when purchasing.


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## H2O (May 16, 2015)

jttheclockman said:


> The wild west lives on:biggrin: Does anyone take self defense classes any more???  Just thinking out loud. Where is Meaggie when you need him:biggrin:



That is ironic coming from someone that lives in NJ.

I suppose you are the kind of person that brings the knife to a gun fight.


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## jttheclockman (May 16, 2015)

H2O said:


> jttheclockman said:
> 
> 
> > The wild west lives on:biggrin: Does anyone take self defense classes any more???  Just thinking out loud. Where is Meaggie when you need him:biggrin:
> ...



It is peaceful here my friend. I don't go to gun fights. 

The one thing I have not seen anyone mention, if you are put in that situation and say you are lucky or unlucky enough to shoot that gun can you or will you have the mentality to live with the consequences???  Look how many service men and women come back broken. These are trained pros.  


Hey I am out of this topic. I was making light on the heels of what Skippy said. This is serious stuff and you better know what you are doing. Living in the a rural area is a whole lot different than living in a large city.


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## H2O (May 16, 2015)

jttheclockman said:


> It is peaceful here my friend. I don't go to gun fights.
> 
> The one thing I have not seen anyone mention, if you are put in that situation and say you are lucky or unlucky enough to shoot that gun can you or will you have the mentality to live with the consequences???  Look how many service men and women come back broken. These are trained pros.
> 
> ...



You don't have to go to them, they will come to you. Just best to be prepared.

The decision to live with the consequences had already been made BEFORE the decision to carry. When it's my life or the life of a loved one, I will do what is necessary to protect us.

Service men and women are not broken from firing their weapon. It's the whole situation they are put in.

Living in a rural area, just means it takes longer for help to reach you.


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## Smitty37 (May 16, 2015)

skiprat said:


> Roy, want my advise?
> My wife and I both carried guns when we lived in South Africa.
> 
> My Best advise is;
> ...


Problem is Skip that moving ain't always a viable option.  Particularily since the housing bubble burst her in 2008.  For instance, we (spouse and I) can afford to live where we are but can't afford to sell.  Now we don't think (at this time) we need to keep a gun around to defend ourselves...but the demographics are changing pretty fast here and who knows whether it will be as safe in 5 years as it is today.


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## Smitty37 (May 16, 2015)

I should have said that I am an experienced hand gun owner - permitted to carry either open or concealed, in New York State (except NYC, Buffalo and Rochester) for 30 years.  I am fully aware of safe gun handling and I was a better than fair shot.  I never owned a handgun because I thought I would need it for protection.


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## CaptainJane (May 17, 2015)

*A different perspective*

I used to be required to wear a gun on the ships I served on, and having never shot a handgun before, I bought a 9mm Beretta like the one I wore at work so that when I practiced, I would be practicing with the same gun I wore at work.  

Over the years, I have changed jobs, and no longer have to wear a gun, but still want to keep up my skills.  However, the price of ammo has more than doubled in the last few years.  So, going to the gun range with 2 boxes of ammo(100 shots), range fees, etc - I am looking at over $30 - a little steep.  So, I recently bought a 22 pistol, which uses ammo that is affordable to buy, and easy on the budget. even if you go to the range once a month or more.  I know a 22 may not stop a meth crazed home invader, but I will have practiced enough to hit where I aim.

The moral of the story is:  the price of the gun is just one expense of owning a gun.  Consider the cost of ammo, and it's availability as well.  Plan on finding a nearby gun range (there is a public city range near me), and practicing your skills.  I see law enforcement officers at the range quite often - so if they practice, so should I.


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## Smitty37 (May 17, 2015)

CaptainJane said:


> I used to be required to wear a gun on the ships I served on, and having never shot a handgun before, I bought a 9mm Beretta like the one I wore at work so that when I practiced, I would be practicing with the same gun I wore at work.
> 
> Over the years, I have changed jobs, and no longer have to wear a gun, but still want to keep up my skills.  However, the price of ammo has more than doubled in the last few years.  So, going to the gun range with 2 boxes of ammo(100 shots), range fees, etc - I am looking at over $30 - a little steep.  So, I recently bought a 22 pistol, which uses ammo that is affordable to buy, and easy on the budget. even if you go to the range once a month or more.  I know a 22 may not stop a meth crazed home invader, but I will have practiced enough to hit where I aim.
> 
> The moral of the story is:  the price of the gun is just one expense of owning a gun.  Consider the cost of ammo, and it's availability as well.  Plan on finding a nearby gun range (there is a public city range near me), and practicing your skills.  I see law enforcement officers at the range quite often - so if they practice, so should I.


 I agree with you there...I used almost all reloaded wad cutters when I was target shooting my .357 Magnum because of the cost of a box of factory loads.  And, that was beteen 1976 and 2000 when ammunition was a lot cheaper... I lived where I could shoot in my back yard though so there were no range fees.


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## TellicoTurning (May 17, 2015)

I live out in the country where shooting wouldn't be a major problem, matter of fact, there's shooting all around me one some days... maybe people getting ready for hunting season, or just plinking.  I don't own, nor do I ever intend to own a gun.  The last time I did much shooting was in my teen years when a box of .22 ammo cost about $0.50.  Don't know about prices today. (BTW, I'm just a few years younger than Smitty)...  And I think the last firearm I fired was a .45 off the fantail of the ship to "qualify" as a second class petty officer.... I'm pretty sure I hit my target, which was the Pacific ocean.  There was a weather balloon up behind the ship and I was told to aim at that, but it was a known fact that one could rarely puncture those big soft rubber ballo0ns... but at least, according to my naval records, I'm a qualified marksman with an M1 and the .45... although I have never in my life fired an M1..(I was absent on range day in boot camp - I had a dental appointment and wasn't allowed to skip it.)


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## Wingdoctor (May 17, 2015)

In my early life I was a gunsmith and gun store sales person. Concealed carry or home defense dictates a gun that is powerful enough to be 1 shot effective, the ability to handle safely, ability to conceal if required, and comfortable enough to practice enough to become proficient in handling and shooting so that you do not have to consciously think about using the weapon.  I do have fair sized hands so I have no problems with a 1911 sized grip. I have had Detonics, Colt full sized 45's, and even a LAR Grizzly in 45 Win Mag. If you can handle the size a good 45ACP gun is a great stopper and the recoil is not excessive. Currently my thoughts run to a Ruger SR1911 stainless. If 8 45ACP's won't get the job done, I am the problem and need to get to the range for much practice. 

Firing your gun choice enough that under a stressful situation the gun operation is performed without conscious thought is imperative. You have enough to think about during a confrontation without trying to remember how to release the safety and or charge the weapon. I am comfortable with a 45 single action that has a grip and side safety and cocked and locked is my preference. Your choices will depend on your circumstances and skill. Good luck in your choice.


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## Chromey (May 17, 2015)

I second the advice of renting...especially for your wife. I did and am glad I did, with my arthritis I ended up with a completely different gun then I had in mind. Oh and of course practice drills and target shooting together is fun.


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## Smitty37 (May 17, 2015)

TellicoTurning said:


> I live out in the country where shooting wouldn't be a major problem, matter of fact, there's shooting all around me one some days... maybe people getting ready for hunting season, or just plinking.  I don't own, nor do I ever intend to own a gun.  The last time I did much shooting was in my teen years when a box of .22 ammo cost about $0.50.  Don't know about prices today. (BTW, I'm just a few years younger than Smitty)...  And I think the last firearm I fired was a .45 off the fantail of the ship to "qualify" as a second class petty officer.... I'm pretty sure I hit my target, which was the Pacific ocean.  There was a weather balloon up behind the ship and I was told to aim at that, but it was a known fact that one could rarely puncture those big soft rubber ballo0ns... but at least, according to my naval records, I'm a qualified marksman with an M1 and the .45... although I have never in my life fired an M1..(I was absent on range day in boot camp - I had a dental appointment and wasn't allowed to skip it.)


Ifired the 45 into the Atlantic Ocean.  And, it was Long Rifle .22 cal shells that cost .50  a box, shorts were cheaper.


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## Garrett'sWoodworx (May 18, 2015)

Lots of really good advice has already been given, so I'll keep my blurb shorter than it would normally be. I'm going to assume(I know...)that neither of you has a significant amount of experience with firearms and base my advice on that assumption. I would strongly agree with those who suggested considering a double-action revolver, and would suggest that Ruger and Smith & Wesson are reliable brands to consider. In spite of the popularity of semi-autos, revolvers are less complicated, more easily mastered, highly reliable with a minimum of upkeep required and with aftermarket grips (which are abundant) can be "customized" to fit a wide variety of hand sizes relatively inexpensively.  In general, a .38 special or .357 magnum revolver can be fed a wide variety of ammo, from light target rounds which are much more comfortable to shoot to more powerful "defensive" loads. Personally, I .think a 2.5" or 4" barrel length is ideal; avoid the 2" "snub nosed" revolvers   Some may argue, but IN GENERAL, semiautos area bit pickier about the ammo you use.  BY ALL MEANS take some time to handle and preferably shoot several different guns and see what feels right for each of you.  Avoid gimmicks, "tactical" features, etc. and try not to be swayed by "this is what the cops carry".  Evaluate each one you try on how it fits your specific situation. As others have offerred: if you have any specific questions, I will do my best to answer them.   Garrett


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## robertkulp (May 19, 2015)

I have a Springfield XDM Compact .40SW and love it. It's a double stack, but fits smaller hands fairly well. I also recommend the Springfield XDS 9mm. It's a single stack and much smaller, but still very easy to shoot. Similar to the XDS is the Smith & Wesson M&P Shield in 9mm, but about $100 less. My dad has a Ruger LC9 and really likes it, too.

Find a gun range that will let you rent various models. Also, check to see how easy it is to field strip and clean the gun. Do you need special tools? What if you lose  that tool? How crisp is the trigger? How much over-travel is there! What is the reset for subsequent shots? How easy/inexpensive is it to modify the gun to improve any of these factors?

There are many more questions, but these will get you started. Good luck & practice regularly.


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## PTsideshow (May 19, 2015)

By all means find a local gun range and rent a number of guns and fire them, both you and your wife. Both the recoil and noise might shock you depending on caliber.

Since you both are planning on conceal carry, there is more than gun control and licensing requirements you should be aware of. The legal aspects of evening pulling it are some thing to consider. Never change your carry guns with new springs and triggers or other hop up items. The prosecutors generally have a field day with it. Same as hand loading your own ammo, another area that they will pounce on.

Use store bought ammo, that the specs can and will be checked against lot numbers.
A great site for your wife is here Cornered Cat | If you have to fight, fight like a cornered cat.
anything by [FONT=arial,helvetica]Massad Ayoob  [/FONT][FONT=arial,helvetica]his The Gravest Extreme is still a great read on the subject. He is the legal defense gun and CC expert. https://shopayoob.omegacomminc.com/...q=16654672&tokns=passed&pagename=About Massad

Handgunlaw.us another good one gives info on the laws in your state.

Not to be a downer but these are a couple you should be aware of
https://www.armedcitizensnetwork.org/

Here is all the myths in one place and an interesting read
Gun Facts - Debunking Gun Control Myths

Personal Defense Network - expert training videos and classes

And if the don't show them in your area Glocks TV commercials with the Gunny!
They have a bunch of them https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2gCFOtaZPo

The only other thing is when somebody gets shot they don't go down like in the movies and TV, you may have to double or triple tap em. And don't let them get to close, it is truly amazing how fast a human can cover 21 feet!

Be safe, don't broadcast that you are a gun person, by plastering it on your car or truck. Only pull it if you intend to use it!

And remember The most often quoted line in Concealed Carry " I carry a gun, because a cop is to heavy"
:wink:
[/FONT]


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## Russ Hewitt (May 19, 2015)

I carry both a Kahr MP9 in 9mm and a Ruger LCP in .380.  I carry both in a "pocket" holster.  I previously considered the .380 to be a toy round, but they now make a variety of .380 rounds designed for personal protection that are very effective.

The advice to handle and shoot the gun prior to buying is spot on.

IMHO after 26 years as a street cop including time in SWAT.


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## plantman (May 19, 2015)

Russ Hewitt said:


> I carry both a Kahr MP9 in 9mm and a Ruger LCP in .380.  I carry both in a "pocket" holster.  I previously considered the .380 to be a toy round, but they now make a variety of .380 rounds designed for personal protection that are very effective.
> 
> The advice to handle and shoot the gun prior to buying is spot on.
> 
> IMHO after 26 years as a street cop including time in SWAT.



Russ; THANK YOU for serving in the "true" homeland security system. The officer on the street is really our first line of defense !! If your presence isn't seen, heard, and felt this country would be back in the "Old Wild West" days ruled by the meanest, fastest bad a$$ people out there. Thank you again !!!     Jim  S


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## Smitty37 (May 19, 2015)

plantman said:


> Russ Hewitt said:
> 
> 
> > I carry both a Kahr MP9 in 9mm and a Ruger LCP in .380.  I carry both in a "pocket" holster.  I previously considered the .380 to be a toy round, but they now make a variety of .380 rounds designed for personal protection that are very effective.
> ...


 It is highly tempting to add to this, but very difficult without getting into political things.  Suffice to say the "cop on the beat", as we used to call them, has not seen the job get any easier over the years.....


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## Smitty37 (May 19, 2015)

*Information overload*

Roy, I'll bet you never imagined that there could be so much information concerning what seems to be a pretty simple question.  I assume you're a pretty smart guy and will be able to filter the information.   When I got my first hand gun permit (which covered open and concealed carry) it was much easier, even in NY which had about the toughest hand gun laws in existance at the time.


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## hcpens (May 19, 2015)

Check with your state, if you train on a revolver, then that's all you can carry so train on semi auto, so you can carry either one.


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## tomtedesco (May 19, 2015)

On duty I carried a Sig P226 and a Sig P230 for off duty carry. Still carry the P230 every day but if neither you or your wife has any handgun experience you may want to look at a revolver.  Some people have a hard time remembering there is still a round in the chamber with the mag removed.  There are no extra motions (safety or de-cocker) required with a revolver it is truly a point and shoot weapon.  Check out both at your range.


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## Leatherman1998 (May 19, 2015)

My mom has a small .25 that she carries but I think a 9 mm is a sweet size for most people.


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## plantman (May 20, 2015)

Smitty37 said:


> plantman said:
> 
> 
> > Akula said:
> ...



Smitty; Is that not the meaning behind concealed ?? It's not supposed to look like you are carrying a weapon !! Believe me, when these lady's bring out their pink 1911's at the range, there is no mistaking them for a compact or cell phone !! Almost everything you can carry has been made into some type of shooting device, even the lowly fountain and ball point pen.   Jim  S


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## OLDMAN5050 (May 20, 2015)

Be careful, last resort to be pulling a gun on someone. never pull on one unless your intentions are to use it.. now my personal preference for a woman is the Kel-tec p-3at
link : Kel-Tec P-3AT P-3AT 6+1 380ACP 2.76" $239.00 SHIPS FREE and my service weapon is the Smith Wesson mp40:Academy - Smith & Wesson M&P .40 S&W Pistol


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## OKLAHOMAN (Jun 7, 2015)

Well after taking all the advise given here and elsewhere, Dee and I have been visiting our local indoor range and gun shop. They have been very helpful and we were able to rent some hand guns and get the feel for them. Dee has bad arthritis and they tried some revolvers and a few semi automatic's.
The Sig Sauer  P238 was the easiest for her to load and shoot, she really enjoyed shooting it. 
I on the other hand I liked the Smith and Wesson Shield 9MM but I also liked the Sig.
Of course the Sig uses 380's and the S&W 9MM and the S&W is almost $350 less.
So the difference in price would more than make up for the cost of ammo.
Our Shop has the S&W on sale for $399 and the Sig that she likes is $750, as she liked the tactical feel of the Rosewood grips. So it looks like that is what we'll end up with, I'll most likely purchase the S&W tomorrow and see if I can find the Sig for her a little cheaper.


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## mtassie (Jun 7, 2015)

For quick carry I have the S&W bodyguard 380 and the glock 42 also a 380.


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## Rockytime (Jun 7, 2015)

Faye and I have had our CC permits for about three years. Colorado is quite liberal with permits. We have two S&W snub nose airweight revolvers and I have a Taurus .22 with the flip up barrel. I am taking my wife to a local range next week for hands on instruction. She has never fired a handgun and I am hardly a qualified instructor. We do not carry but as home invasions become more frequent I think some protection is advisable. Fortunately Colorado has "Make My Day" laws. Denver is off limits to handguns but outside of that things are fairly reasonable for carrying. Weak hand and wrist strength prohibit me from using a semi-auto. Only time I carry is when riding my bike alone on the highway and then I carry the little .22. It is tiny and is deadlier than a sharp stick. Otherwise it remains at home.


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## mbroberg (Jun 7, 2015)

I have the shield in 40 cal. It's a great gun IMHO


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## Cmiles1985 (Jun 7, 2015)

Might I suggest budsgunshop.com? The P238 there is around $670. I'm not sure what transfer fees are in OK. Here in TX, you have the gun shipped to your local FFA, pay somewhere between $35 and $50, they file the paperwork, and you're on your way.


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