# IAP Book Idea



## TXPhi67 (Sep 26, 2010)

Hello all,

Per Jeff's suggestion, this poll is to gauge the interest in an IAP Book based on the Library articles.

Basically, the book would be a binder style book probably about the same size as a day planner, maybe larger.

In the first edition, it would include all of the current articles and be published first for IAP consumption.  The proceeds would go to the IAP.  In subsequent editions, updates from the previous year would be included as well as being offered as stand alone printing to be added by existing book owners.

Additionally, the end game would be to have a reference book that could be sold outside of the IAP through such places as CUSA, Woodcraft, Rocklers, etc. and the proceeds go to the IAP.

There are a number of details that have to be worked out (permissions from current/future article authors, editing, pricing. etc).

The focus right now is simply to gauge interest from the IAP membership in something like this.

Here are a few other ideas that could be included in the book:
Bios for each author
Note taking sections associated with each article
Waterproof paper (makes it a more resilient shop book)

So feel free to post your thoughts and suggestions, but please keep in mind - this is a very preliminary idea and the goal is simply to get some idea of the interest.

Pricing, availability, publishing schedule, editing, etc. would be addressed if it looks like there is enough interest from the membership.

Take care and I look forward to seeing what everyone thinks.

Brian


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## SDB777 (Sep 27, 2010)

Are you saying that if there is a book the library would not exist any longer?  After all, why would someone buy something that is already free....

Just asking....






Scott (everythings about $$$) B


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## witz1976 (Sep 27, 2010)

I think it would be a good idea to sell the book, but also keep the library open for members only.  That way it can still be a useful resource for us, but also make some $$ and perhaps generate interest in the IAP.

Nice idea!


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## TXPhi67 (Sep 27, 2010)

The Library would never go away.  The book would be a hard copy version of the Library and updated on a yearly basis.

As to why buy one?  Here are some reasons I can think of:

1) Fund the IAP - The end goal is to produce a product targeted outside of the IAP that provides a sustainable and recurring revenue stream for IAP.  It would be nice if non-members wound up funding the group through book sales.  

2) Reference material collectors - Some folks like the feel of a published book (not something that they printed from their PC) and the idea of having a professionally produced reference manual to add to their own library of books is appealing.  (Have to confess - I would be one of those folks.)

3) New pen turner - There are large number of books in production about pen turning that get snatched up by new turners.  Why don't we leverage our considerable knowledge and talent to do tap into that market?  In that same vein - there probably are some number of folks that when they first join IAP wish that they had the Library in a hard bound version to take to the shop with them and reference while they are there.

Granted - not everyone would want one.  However, the end goal is to market to people outside of IAP and as a revenue stream for the group.

In the best case, we would have enough initial interest to fund a printing run with extra copies that could in turn be sold outside of the IAP in order to fund a 2nd run and so forth.  This way, we could potentially get this off the ground with out an undue financial burden on IAP in the beginning.

Make sense?


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## markgum (Sep 27, 2010)

Maybe a digital copy.  I've got so many books/magazines right now that I"m trying to sort through. 
 Trying to think of ways to scan the magazines so I can toss the paper copies.


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## cnirenberg (Sep 27, 2010)

Brian,
Great idea.  Here is a suggestion.  I was fortunate enough to get at mini metal lathe a while back and have been hungry to learn what ever I can about it, how better to use it , what I can do with it etc.  Village Press puts out a series of books on tips, techniques, shop wisdom of those who are the top dogs in their field.  These may contain articles from old magazines or whatever (I have not read any), but I do not think that they are available free anywhere other than back issues etc.  See link here
https://secure.villagepress.com/store/items/list/group/130

Possibly some of the more experienced members could put together tutorials published only for the book as a incentive, rather than being able to download a series of how to's for free off the site with things like shop set up, home made this and thats, techniques etc.  
It's a lot to ask and a big time consumer, but I think it would generate more sales. We also do not want to step on the toes of those who already "pay for material" out there.

I also like Marks idea for having it available as a pay for pdf download, that is a excellent idea.


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## broitblat (Sep 27, 2010)

I think this could be interesting and I'd be potentially interested.  I'd suggest a binding that would allow the book to open so the pages lie flat to make it easy to take into the shop.

What ever happened with the book project from a few years ago?

  -Barry


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## Tanner (Sep 27, 2010)

It would be a great idea.  Even contact the members that wrote the tutorial to see if there are any changes or improvements they would like to make on the tutorial.


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## Padre (Sep 27, 2010)

I personally think it is a great idea.  However, maybe if the pages of the book were made "tougher" than a regular book would be, so you could keep it/use it in the shop.

I currently print out the articles I like double-sided, laminate them, punch them and put them in a three-ring binder.  Works great.  Have another binder for all the pen instructions, laminate those as well.


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## TXPhi67 (Sep 27, 2010)

The book idea didn't actually go away, it just kind of hibernated.  Now it's poking it's head out of it's cave to see if it can see it's shadow.  

This is by no means an "new idea" and some of the folks that have been involved in past discussions are offering excellent ideas (as are some that are getting posted here).

Right now - it's all about gauging interest.  So, thanks for voting and more importantly - thanks for the suggestions!

Take care,

Brian


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## penhead (Sep 27, 2010)

As an avid book collector, I think a hardcopy printed version of the library articles would be a great thing... i think a nice article from or about Jeff and how the IAP was created would be nice in the first book...and a nice index of 'all' articles, maybe even catagorized by subject...

... something else related that would be of value to me when searching for ideas is a searchable DVD...


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## maxwell_smart007 (Sep 27, 2010)

Padre said:


> I personally think it is a great idea.  However, maybe if the pages of the book were made "tougher" than a regular book would be, so you could keep it/use it in the shop.
> 
> I currently print out the articles I like double-sided, laminate them, punch them and put them in a three-ring binder.  Works great.  Have another binder for all the pen instructions, laminate those as well.



Rather than getting a publisher to print a book, I think the best idea would be to print out the tutorials on your home computer, laminate them, put them in a binder in your shop, and send a cheque to the site...self publishing, the old-fashioned way!


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## mbroberg (Sep 27, 2010)

My .02

Has any research been done to determine what kind of return on investment the IAP could expect from a book?  Fees for editing, publishing, printing, distribution, and other expenses that may exist are probably much more substantial than imagined.

IMHO, while I appreciate the sentiment behind this undertaking, I think it is wishful thinking to believe that anyone would pay for information that is available to them for free.  I wouldn't.  I'd rather spend my money on tools, kits or blanks.

As for marketing the book to non-IAP members, once they become aware of the book and it's origins how many of them are going to just seek out www.penturners.org and join before buying?

How are the authors of the tutorials going to react?  While it is true that once a tutorial is submitted to the IAP then the IAP owns it.  But how many of the authors are going to feel betrayed due to the IAP profiting off of their donated work.

Who is going to check the tutorials for plagiarized material?  Is the IAP going to be able to protect itself against claims of plagiarism brought about by it's members who author the tutorials without properly citing sources when appropriate?

Without a whole lot of additional information, I just don't think it is a real good idea. Besides, the IAP, to the best of my knowledge is financially sound and does not need to involve itself in such an ambitious project.


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## sdemars (Sep 27, 2010)

*I WOULD THINK . . . .*



TXPhi67 said:


> The Library would never go away.  The book would be a hard copy version of the Library and updated on a yearly basis.
> 
> As to why buy one?  Here are some reasons I can think of:
> 
> ...



I WOULD THINK . . . . That perhaps those of us that do shows could have a couple copies on hand at their table. That way when someone expresses interest in pen turning you could offer them the ultimate pen turning instruction manual & gain a new member for IAP.

Steve


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## rjwolfe3 (Sep 27, 2010)

I love this idea but here in the States is it ok if we use checks!:biggrin: Sorry Andrew had to rib my northern buddies. 

I print off everything and put them in those plastic sleeves since it is quicker then laminating. I have also converted many mini tutorials posted here to Word docs that (with the posters permission) will hopefully start showing up in the library.

However I would still buy that book if it is ever published. I think I own every book about penturning right now as well as the DVD's.




maxwell_smart007 said:


> Padre said:
> 
> 
> > I personally think it is a great idea.  However, maybe if the pages of the book were made "tougher" than a regular book would be, so you could keep it/use it in the shop.
> ...


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## TXPhi67 (Sep 27, 2010)

All good points.  And yes, there are lots of unanswered questions and potential hurdles down the road.

Is this something that HAS to be done? Absolutely not.  But, you could argue that statement defines our hobby.  

Also, would this have a broad spectrum appeal - no.  But at the same time, would there be folks who would buy it just to have it on their bookshelf or setting on their coffee table - absolutely!

Would this be cost effective to do?  No idea, that is simply part of the investigation.

Please keep in mind, this is an early stage investigation costing nothing, requiring nothing, and actually kind of fun right now.

The continued feedback, suggestions, and thoughts are excellent and thanks to everyone so far who has commented.  

Keep the comments coming!


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## maxwell_smart007 (Sep 27, 2010)

Rob, a *check* is a mark!  :biggrin: 

(and it's pronounced 'zed, not zee', by the way....and roof sounds like r oo f, not r uh f )

:biggrin:


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## jaybird (Sep 27, 2010)

I think it would be awesome to have a book in front of me to flip through instead of having to get on the computer to see something, I would buy one..


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## its_virgil (Sep 27, 2010)

Betrayed is how I would feel. I submitted articles for others to use not for IAP to profit from. If what you say about ownership is true I would never had submitted mine to the library and the thought of what you say being true is why I have not submitted others that I have written. selfish on my part? Maybe so. But that is how I feel.  I have looked the site over since this thread was started and can't find what you say about ownership. But, I am not too good at deciphering all of the legalese in the TOS and AUP etc. All of the material is free for the taking. If the site is in need of $$$ then just ask and those of us who have supported the site with donations will come through once again. 
Do a good turn daily!
Don




mbroberg said:


> How are the authors of the tutorials going to react?  While it is true that once a tutorial is submitted to the IAP then the IAP owns it.  But how many of the authors are going to feel betrayed due to the IAP profiting off of their donated work.


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## mbroberg (Sep 27, 2010)

its_virgil said:


> Betrayed is how I would feel. I submitted articles for others to use not for IAP to profit from. If what you say about ownership is true I would never had submitted mine to the library and the thought of what you say being true is why I have not submitted others that I have written. selfish on my part? Maybe so. But that is how I feel.  I have looked the site over since this thread was started and can't find what you say about ownership. But, I am not too good at deciphering all of the legalese in the TOS and AUP etc. All of the material is free for the taking. If the site is in need of $$$ then just ask and those of us who have supported the site with donations will come through once again.
> Do a good turn daily!
> Don
> 
> ...




I stand corrected........................

This is the portion of the TOS that I had in mind when I wrote my previous post.

"*Submitted Content:* Any and all  content posted or displayed for inclusion in publicly accessible areas of  Penturners.org are the responsibility of the creator. Penturners.org makes no  claims or warranties about such information or its authenticity. *When you post  messages and upload photos, you grant Penturners.org the perpetual, irrevocable,  non-exclusive, world-wide, royalty free license to publish, modify and use such  content solely for the purpose of displaying such content.* "

Having re-read it I do not believe this would cover a situation involving the formal publication of Library Material.  Perhaps someone more knowledgeable than me could weigh in on this point.  I should have re-read it rather than relying on my memory before putting fingers to keyboard.


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## TXPhi67 (Sep 27, 2010)

its_virgil said:


> Betrayed is how I would feel. I submitted articles for others to use not for IAP to profit from. If what you say about ownership is true I would never had submitted mine to the library and the thought of what you say being true is why I have not submitted others that I have written. selfish on my part? Maybe so. But that is how I feel.  I have looked the site over since this thread was started and can't find what you say about ownership. But, I am not too good at deciphering all of the legalese in the TOS and AUP etc. All of the material is free for the taking. If the site is in need of $$$ then just ask and those of us who have supported the site with donations will come through once again.
> Do a good turn daily!
> Don
> 
> ...



Don,

You are in no way being selfish!

Your point is very valid and one that is considered as well as has been  discussed already with a couple of folks "behind the scenes".

One of the ideas is to compensate the authors from the sales.  How this  would look exactly is not entirely clear.  But what is clear is that the  authors would have an opportunity negotiate and ultimately decide  whether or not their articles are included.

Please remember - nothing has been decided.  Nothing has been  finalized.  And there is A LOT of unanswered questions that need to be  worked through.

This poll is solely focused on gauging interest in the purchasing of a  book.  Not in deciding how it will be done, when it will be done, or  anything else associated with the mechanics of publishing.

The only desired outcome of this poll is to establish whether or not this is an  effort worth further research and a subsequent proposal.  I understand  that there are a good number of details that could bring the effort to a  halt and frankly there probably are a whole host of details we will only  figure out by doing.

But whether or not any of that is addressed is still up in the air.

If and when this is pursued further - those who have an interest (by  volunteering or contributing) will have an ample opportunity to give  their input and participate in all decisions.

Again, please keep in mind - this is simply to see what interest there  would be in publishing the Library as a book.  Nothing more.

So, keep the comments coming and please do not think any decisions have  been made.

As for the financial state of the IAP.  I have not idea.  Have not  asked, nor assumed one way or another.  Fund raising for the IAP is a  happy by product of the exercise, not the impending event driving it.

Thanks again!

Brian Henson


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## bitshird (Sep 27, 2010)

This has been kicked around several times, and the end result has always been the same, there was one member that was going to get a book published , after a bunch of us wrote chapters on our own specialties and strong areas, he was ripped off by7 the publisher. At one time I proposed that it be a virtual book with updates that could be accessed with your purchase code similar to some of the machine software I use. . to me this is the proverbial dead/dying horse, ..unless you can get  Barry Gross to write a nice tutorial on doing watch pens and get wolftat to do one on his 360 herring bones..


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## BRobbins629 (Sep 27, 2010)

A book always sounds like a good idea in concept.  What was initially proposed is merely a bound compilation of unrelated articles with no theme other than they are pen related.  If this was all it was going to be I can't see the attraction.  Even with some good raw material, selecting, editing, etc can be a daunting task.  If its going on sale, it needs quality and consistent photography.  Who would be the target? Is is a beginner's book, a coffee table book, a book you want to keep in the shop?  Good luck getting consensus.  It seems to me that IAP works best as an internet forum.  Stick to what we're good at.


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## azamiryou (Sep 28, 2010)

BRobbins629 said:


> What was initially proposed is merely a bound compilation of unrelated articles with no theme other than they are pen related.



This was my first thought, too. I find the current organization (I use that term loosely) of the Library to be haphazzard, but at least we have search functions. For the book to be useful, someone will have to do a lot of work organizing the materials.

This becomes a big issue for annual updates - if you just tuck them on the end, your organization is shot. If you interleave them with the old stuff so they're nicely organized, page numbering becomes a problem.

That said, if the problems can all be solved, it could be a cool reference.


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## MesquiteMan (Sep 28, 2010)

I have been contacted by a number of members by PM and just to be absolutely clear...*IF any book ever gets published, IT WILL NOT have your article in it without your express written permission*.  Mike accidentally mis-spoke above, you did not give up your copyright when you submitted the article to IAP.


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## mbroberg (Sep 28, 2010)

I am sorry for any confusion I caused by stating something as fact without double checking the fact.  The TOS is much clearer than my memory.


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## ctubbs (Sep 29, 2010)

The best shop books I have are in loose leaf form.  The article I am in need of at the time comes out, gets copied and the copy goes into the shop and the original is back, clean, in the binder.

I like the idea.  If the price can be held into a reasonable zone, I'll take one.

My .02, Mike

I guess I am an ol' fuddy.  I still like my info in dead dianasours on dead tree form.( ink on paper)


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## TXPhi67 (Oct 6, 2010)

After letting this thread and poll run it's course, I've come away with some interesting conclusions.  Please keep in mind that these are my interpretation of the poll results and what I got from the posts (as well as some of the PMs).  It is in no way a final decision or representative of how IAP Mgmt feels about this subject.

1) Even though roughly 70% of the votes were in favor of a book, they were split in such a way as to be positive - but not overwhelmingly in support of the idea.  This is neither bad, nor good - it simply is.  For me, this says that while the idea of the Library being converted into a book is generally a good idea, it may not be a great idea.
2) To convert the Library into a book would be a significant undertaking and one that may in fact be controversial enough that any benefits could well be overwhelmed by the damage (actual or implied).
3) What a book should look like and contain is so varied, that I'm not entirely sure that a happy medium could be arrived at.

For me, this seems to fall into one of those categories of a idea whose time is not right or one that looks great on paper but has a higher than average chance of failure in execution.

To that end, I think I'm going to let this rest for now.  I personally do not see that the effort would justify any potential issues nor is it one that I'm entirely sure I could fit into my schedule and bandwidth.

This is not to say I (or someone else) will never revisit the idea.  I suspect that it will come up again as it has in the past, and who knows the outcome of that discussion.

Finally I want to thank everyone who responded here or in PMs.  Your thoughts, suggestions, and ideas were all very warmly received and appreciated.  

Take care,


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