# Taps and Dies??



## Tom D (May 9, 2011)

I would really like to get into threading my own blanks like you big boys do but I do not want to invest a fortune in taps and dies.  Can you help point me in the direction of the most common sizes or should I just take several different pen parts to the tool store and get the tools to fit? Thanks for any and all suggestions.

Thanks


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## IPD_Mr (May 9, 2011)

Many of the pen parts take custom size taps or dies that generally cannot be found on the open market. Sizes such as M6.4 M7.4 and M8.4 Those are just for the fountain pen feeds. As for cap size threads, if you don't mind a single position start on the thread there are a couple of sizes that you can get at most places that offer taps and dies. Texatdurango advised me not to by a set as there as so many sizes that you will never use. That was some really good advise.


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## bensoelberg (May 9, 2011)

IPD_Mr said:


> Many of the pen parts take custom size taps or dies that generally cannot be found on the open market. Sizes such as M6.4 M7.4 and M8.4 Those are just for the fountain pen feeds. As for cap size threads, if you don't mind a single position start on the thread there are a couple of sizes that you can get at most places that offer taps and dies. Texatdurango advised me not to by a set as there as so many sizes that you will never use. That was some really good advise.



You mention that there are a couple of sizes that are particularly useful, I'm in the same position as TomD, could you suggest some specific sizes we should look for?


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## hewunch (May 9, 2011)

Tom I am thinking august meeting


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## BSea (May 9, 2011)

Add me to the list that wants to know.


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## mredburn (May 9, 2011)

I use a m12 x.75 for caps if I dont use the triple tap set I just bought.  Start here  for single sets without breaking the bank. they do have a minimum but its not that much.
http://www.victornet.com/
Some of the other member use 7/16 or 1/2 sized sets. I suggest the finer threads in those as well.

Your design, how wide the body and cap are may determine the tap size you need. Check the library for tutorials on making your won caps and threads.


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## soligen (May 9, 2011)

FIrst you will want a collet chuck. So get that first.

I made my first kitless wil the large Harbor freight set which after coupon cost $28. At this point the only size I use for pens from that set is M10 x 1, but having them all on hand will be useful for other things in the long run, and I got the accessory tools too, like the hand held tap & die holders and thread gages. 

You will also want a die holder for the tailstock or drill chuck. A local discount tool store had it for about $10. SO, basically I got to start playing for under $40 and aI learned how to make my first kitless pen. Most of what I use now aren't in that set, but they have come in handy for non-pen related things


Other than those mentioned in other posts - M10 x 1 for the coupler(from the set I bought), M8 x .75 tap & die ($10 ish) for a rollerball nose cone.

For FPs you need the custom taps - maybe $25 or $30 ish each. The only one I know of that is available is the M6.4 x .5 at IAPD.

Really is just the triple start that is the one expensive option, but it works very well. The other items are not singly expensive (except collet chuck if you dont have one), but can still add up to the $50 - $100 range depending on how you go.


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## bensoelberg (May 9, 2011)

soligen said:


> FIrst you will want a collet chuck. So get that first.
> 
> I made my first kitless wil the large Harbor freight set which after coupon cost $28. At this point the only size I use for pens from that set is M10 x 1, but having them all on hand will be useful for other things in the long run, and I got the accessory tools too, like the hand held tap & die holders and thread gages.
> 
> ...



Thanks Dennis, this post is exactly what I've been looking for.


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## mredburn (May 10, 2011)

I stock the 8.4x1 and the 7.4x5 taps they run $30.00 each plus $2.00 shipping 
MIke


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## Tom D (May 10, 2011)

Thanks for all the great advise, now all I have to do is hit the tool stores then, with out a doubt ruin some blanks.  I havent got a collet chuck yet, I have been using a jacobs chuck for closed end pens. (a little challenging)

Thanks Hans I can't wait.


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## jgourlay (May 23, 2011)

Soligen:  i googled "IAPD tap die" and got a link to this thread.

Can you post a link to IAPD?



soligen said:


> FIrst you will want a collet chuck. So get that first.
> 
> I made my first kitless wil the large Harbor freight set which after coupon cost $28. At this point the only size I use for pens from that set is M10 x 1, but having them all on hand will be useful for other things in the long run, and I got the accessory tools too, like the hand held tap & die holders and thread gages.
> 
> ...


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## IPD_Mr (May 23, 2011)

Here is a link to the M6.4 x .5 tap, but we sold out of them this weekend.
http://www.indy-pen-dance.com/M6.4-x-.5-Tap.html

I am placing an order for them today along with the M8.4 x .75 for the large nib feed.


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## soligen (May 23, 2011)

jgourlay said:


> Soligen: i googled "IAPD tap die" and got a link to this thread.


 
I made a Typo.  Meant IPD - Indy Pen Dance.  See post right above this.


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## Manny (May 23, 2011)

"I havent got a collet chuck yet, I have been using a jacobs chuck for closed end pens. (a little challenging)"

I guess I need more information
Do you have a scroll chuck? 
If you don't I would advise to buy one first. (just my opinion)
They can be used for drilling on the lathe as well as work holding. 
Unless you have a draw bar on you jacob's chuck you run the risk of your work flying off your lathe. 

If you do don't let the lack of a collet chuck hold you back. Use your tap and die set to make custom chucks to hold your work. It takes more time initially but will help you down the road

If I were to make a suggestion I would recommend a Die Holder like this one. 
http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2314&category=
Threading a tenon straight is very difficult for me to do by hand.
Use your drill chuck for the tap

If you do buy a die holder be sure to buy all of your dies to fit it. 
Round 1"

Manny


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## soligen (May 23, 2011)

The advantage of a collet chuck is that you can chuck the actual pen without marring it by simply wraping with 1 layer of painter's tape.  I do this all the time (it is how I close ends and square up kitless barrels).  A collet chuck also has less run out.

For pen making, the collet chuck is more usefull than the scroll chuck, Both kinds of chucks can do things the other can't, and there is overlap in what they can do.

There is always alternate ways to do things, which can be great fun to figure out, but some tools make life a lot easier.  I would not give up my collet chuck for anything.  It's the single most usefull pen making accessory I have purchased.


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## Manny (May 23, 2011)

Oh I agree with you on the value of a Collet check I have one and I use it all the time. I am just not sure how the OP is able to do anything with just a Jakob's chuck as described.

Back to the discussion
"The advantage of a collet chuck is that you can chuck the actual pen without marring it by simply wraping with 1 layer of painter's tape"

you can buy rubber jaws for a scroll chuck. As I mentioned in my original post you can create a custom pen mandrel with a tap and die set and you don't need to worry about marring the pen at all. Also the whole pen body is completely exposed allowing you to finish/shape the entire piece all at once. 

"For pen making, the collet chuck is more usefull than the scroll chuck"
I don't agree. collet chucks might be more conducive to advance pen making (this is debatable) I would not recommended one over a scroll chuck. A scroll chuck has much of the same virtues as a collet chuck and is much more flexible regarding stock shape and size. 

Also the freedom of a collet chuck comes with a price. Standard sets only come with 5 or so collets which can be frustrating on a limited budget. In addition to the chuck itself you need to buy an expanded set of collets for it to not be a constraint to your creativity. 

"A collet chuck also has less run out"
Ageed

"There is always alternate ways to do things, which can be great fun to figure out, but some tools make life a lot easier"

I 100% agree with your first comment. The second part is interpretative based on personal factors. 

Besides if he really wants to use collets he can make them
http://www.cnew.org/tips_techniques/proj wood collet chuck/AllWoodColletChuck.htm

Disclaimer I do 90% of all my turning and threading on a metal lathe with a scroll chuck
Just my opinion

Manny


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## MartinPens (May 24, 2011)

I've been working on perfecting a custom closed-end pen that uses the nib section from a Gentleman's kit.  I would like to thread the cap instead of using the kit part.   What size do I need to put a thread in the cap for a Gentleman's rollerball nib?  Can anyone help me here? I would like to be up and running when the group buy comes in on the tap and die.  Hope these are the right questions.

Martin

Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner


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## IPD_Mr (May 24, 2011)

MartinPens said:


> I've been working on perfecting a custom closed-end pen that uses the nib section from a Gentleman's kit. I would like to thread the cap instead of using the kit part. What size do I need to put a thread in the cap for a Gentleman's rollerball nib? Can anyone help me here? I would like to be up and running when the group buy comes in on the tap and die. Hope these are the right questions.
> 
> Martin
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner


 
You might as Mike Redburn to measure one but it is close to a M9 x 1.  It might be more like an M8.something x 1.  It will actually screw into an M9 x .75, but it is not correct.


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## Timebandit (May 24, 2011)

MartinPens said:


> I've been working on perfecting a custom closed-end pen that uses the nib section from a Gentleman's kit.  I would like to thread the cap instead of using the kit part.   What size do I need to put a thread in the cap for a Gentleman's rollerball nib?  Can anyone help me here? I would like to be up and running when the group buy comes in on the tap and die.  Hope these are the right questions.
> 
> Martin
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner



Maybe i dont understand your question,but it sounds like you are asking what size tap you need to tap the CAP for the threads on a Jr Gent? If so, the tap and die from the group buy wont help you. The tap on the group buy is 12mm which is way over the thread size for a Jr Gent. 

If you are talking about taping the BODY section to receive the Jr Gent front section, that is a different story. There is a thread somewhere which talks about this size tap. Will have to see if i can find it. You say CAP, so im not sure which you are talking about.

EDIT:I just looked at your post in the tap and die group buy. Martin , i dont think this is going to do what you want it to do. This tap and die do not actually fit the threads for a Churchill or El Grande, i have tried and the coupler just wont thread in. This tap and die is really about the size of the die, which is large enough to allow the El Grande front section to pass through it. This can be accomplished without the triple start tap and die, but the triple start threads are nicer and stronger. Sorry, but i dont think it will do what you want.


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## IPD_Mr (May 24, 2011)

Justin I think you read what I missed on this.  I thought that he only wanted to use the front end nib section and not the piece that the nib front section screws into.  Martin if you are using both pieces, the part that the cap screws on to is a triple start thread.  I do not know for sure if it is the same size at the group buy of the tap and die sets that is going on now.  Again Mike Redburn would be the goto guy on this for accurate sizes.


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## Timebandit (May 24, 2011)

Ok so i have in front of me now the Kitless pen i just posted and 2 couplers from churchill kits. 1 is plastic and the other metal. The metal one only goes in about 1/16 before it stops. The plastic one will thread in all the way. Sorry for this mistake.But this means that you can only use the plastic couplers unless you really work that metal one back and forth and maybe cut the threads a little more. Sorry for my mistake


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## Manny (May 24, 2011)

The metal couplers I bought (el grande) work fine with the group buy triple start tap. I don't seem to be having any problems. 


As for the JR gent cap. I use a closed end mandrel from Arizona Silhouette (sp?) 
Manny


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## Manny (May 24, 2011)

MartinPens said:


> I've been working on perfecting a custom closed-end pen that uses the nib section from a Gentleman's kit.  I would like to thread the cap instead of using the kit part.   What size do I need to put a thread in the cap for a Gentleman's rollerball nib?  Can anyone help me here? I would like to be up and running when the group buy comes in on the tap and die.  Hope these are the right questions.
> 
> Martin
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner



Martin,

I have not seen to date a group buy for tap and die that matches a Jr series cap thread. 

I am guessing it is a three start just like the el grande so a specialty order would need to be done. 

Manny


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## Timebandit (May 24, 2011)

Manny said:


> The metal couplers I bought (el grande) work fine with the group buy triple start tap. I don't seem to be having any problems.
> 
> 
> As for the JR gent cap. I use a closed end mandrel from Arizona Silhouette (sp?)
> Manny




My plastic couplers thread in but the metal ones wont go in all the way.


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## MartinPens (May 24, 2011)

I appreciate the info. I'm going to PM Mike Redburn and try to talk with him on the phone so that I can put my money in the direction that I want to go. Thanks for the feedback. It has been very helpful.

Martin

Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner


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