# High end kits disappearing...



## killer-beez (Aug 19, 2010)

I have noticed that suppliers of high end kits are disappearing at an alarming rate.  CSUSA seems to be one of the only resellers of the more expensive kits and even their high end kits are disappearing.  I have been on the Dayacom web site and see they have tons of high end kits but won’t sell to the public or even US distributers.  Why you wouldn’t sell to a country with the most disposable income in the world I'll never know.  Does anyone have any suggestions?  Thanks…


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## Chasper (Aug 19, 2010)

I hadn't noticed, other than Emperor and Jr Emperor from CSUSA, which high end kits have been dropped by which suppliers?


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## scotian12 (Aug 19, 2010)

The Lotus no longer available.   Darrell Eisner


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## lwalden (Aug 19, 2010)

Imperial no longer available either, which was another CSUSA high end kit.


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## hewunch (Aug 19, 2010)

Rockler dropped the Majestic I think.


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## Smitty37 (Aug 19, 2010)

*PSI*

PSI seems to have added a couple - Nouveau Sceptre and Art Deco.  My best guess would be that in an off-economy the sale of high end pens is down some and so the sale of high end kits would be too.  And, they are costly to hold in inventory.


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## Smitty37 (Aug 19, 2010)

*Dayacom*



killer-beez said:


> I have noticed that suppliers of high end kits are disappearing at an alarming rate. CSUSA seems to be one of the only resellers of the more expensive kits and even their high end kits are disappearing. I have been on the Dayacom web site and see they have tons of high end kits but won’t sell to the public or even US distributers. Why you wouldn’t sell to a country with the most disposable income in the world I'll never know. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks…


 
If you have a website and a business license Dayacom will probably sell to you.  They seem to want to deal only with businesses including distributors, in fact on their website they have at least a couple of items they are looking for distributors for.


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## JBCustomPens (Aug 19, 2010)

Chasper said:


> I hadn't noticed, other than Emperor and Jr Emperor from CSUSA, which high end kits have been dropped by which suppliers?



Lotus
Imperial 
Retro
(what's next??)


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## hewunch (Aug 19, 2010)

The retro is only going away in the fountain pen and the copper kit. The Rhodium Roller and 10k rollerball are still available


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## bitshird (Aug 19, 2010)

hewunch said:


> The retro is only going away in the fountain pen and the copper kit. The Rhodium Roller and 10k rollerball are still available



Fortunately Aaron at Lau Lau woods has Retros in better platings than CSUSA ever had, at competitive prices.


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## RussFairfield (Aug 19, 2010)

Could be because they have to import them by the thousands, and only a few of us are buying them 1 or 2 at a time.


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## ed4copies (Aug 19, 2010)

*Business Mathematics*



RussFairfield said:


> Could be because they have to import them by the thousands, and only a few of us are buying them 1 or 2 at a time.



Dead on!

Also, the one or two who are buying want different "flavors".  To handle the Emperor, you need to stock gold and black ti, fountain and rollerball ---4 styles.  BUT some want the SMALLER version---so you need to stock those same choices in the Jr. Emperor---4 more styles.  Now you have 4000 pens---representing over $100,000.  You will probably sell less than 1000 pens per year.  So, your average cash in use is $50,000 for four years.  

Takes VERY deep pockets.  And very few who can AFFORD such a deal are dumb enough to BUY it.

But they will probably find SOMEONE!!!


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## wood-of-1kind (Aug 19, 2010)

NewLondon88 said:


> Somehow they're missing the point that the kits are overpriced to begin
> with. The difference in manufacturing costs between a Statesman and
> an Emperor are negligible, but the prices don't reflect this.




Charlie, methinks you're bang-on with your assessment. Too great of a pricing disparity between far too many kits. Sometimes there's no apparent rhyme or reason as to how price points are set.


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## Russianwolf (Aug 19, 2010)

ed4copies said:


> Dead on!
> 
> Also, the one or two who are buying want different "flavors".  To handle the Emperor, you need to stock gold and black ti, fountain and rollerball ---4 styles.  BUT some want the SMALLER version---so you need to stock those same choices in the Jr. Emperor---4 more styles.  Now you have 4000 pens---representing over $100,000.  You will probably sell less than 1000 pens per year.  So, your average cash in use is $50,000 for four years.
> 
> ...


Which is exactly why Aaron only stocks and offers to us what he himself uses for his business. He doesn't play the guessing game of what do we want, just satisfies his own needs and allows us to buy in IF we want. If I decide to make that kind of investment, I'll be approaching it the same way.


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## ironman (Aug 19, 2010)

NewLondon88 said:


> As I've watched kit prices going up and up and up, I figured they'd raise
> the prices until we stopped buying and then back them down a little till
> we started buying again. Then the prices would stabilize there. But this time
> they've taken another tack; dropping the higher end kits.
> ...



How do you know the manufacturing costs of the pens.  and usually if companies are raising the prices of pen kits it means the cost of production is going up.


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## jskeen (Aug 19, 2010)

And, I'm sure that Dayacom has inventory issues as well.  It seems that dayacom is not necessarily a monolithic producer of these products either.  They sub out different components to smaller producers, a few thousand clips over here, a few thousand centerbands there, a few thousand endcaps to the other mom and pop producer who have to tool up, get supplies, do the initial quality control and finally produce a run of parts.  The fewer parts in a run, the more of the initial costs have to be covered on each part.  And lets face it, a statesman clip with the flat ring and undecorated front is MUCH cheaper to produce than the ones for the emperor/lotus/imperial with the thicker ring, the insert in the front.  The cast, polished and plated inserts themselves are probably subcontracted yet again by the clip maker, and they have to be set up and produced.  

Dayacom gathers all these parts together and assembles the kits, then deals with the nightmarish chinese government export department, and ships them to the distributers. 

It's one thing to have a staff of a few skilled craftsmen who can hand produce prototypes of pen kits to take pictures of and put on a webpage, but you can bet dayacom don't have 500 of each of those kits sitting on a shelf eating up their capital.  At most they have spec'd them out to their suppliers to get a rough price on a certain number of parts.  

Let's face it folks, even at 35 or 40 or 50 dollars a kit, the kits we use are still very economical for the complexity and cost of production.  Otherwise we would not really be able to do the fairly limited work of adding material to the barrels, assembling them and sell them for a profit at all.  

As with any modern system of distributed production, the network is complex, slow, and very price sensitive to quantity of order, but incredibly efficient within it's optimum parameters.  It has also taken decades to develop.  It may be annoying to not be able to get exactly what we want when and how we would like it, but without the system, flaws and all, the few of us with the time, skill and equipment to produce totally kitless pens like Brian and Ken and a few others would be the only people with anything to talk about on here


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## ed4copies (Aug 19, 2010)

James,

As you know, I see most things as a "marketing guy".

I believe CSUSA has realized that the MOQ (Minimum Order Quantity) exceeds the annual demand for the product.

HOWEVER, I suspect there is a HUGE bubble when the kit is introduced.  SO, introducing a NEW kit every year or so COULD be justified.

That "newly designed kit" will also erode the demand for the Emperor (and any other "Old" kits).  So the math gets WORSE, not better for the "Old" kits.


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## ed4copies (Aug 19, 2010)

Analogy:

GM sold 1.1 million cars in the last six months (profitably for the first time in a long time.

What do you suppose those cars would cost, if only 2000 were made and sold???


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## SDB777 (Aug 19, 2010)

ed4copies said:


> Analogy:
> 
> GM sold 1.1 million cars in the last six months (profitably for the first time in a long time.
> 
> What do you suppose those cars would cost, if only 2000 were made and sold???


 
Are you saying that a car is a direct comparison for a pen kit?

Apples and orange thing....doesn't work.  Unless everyone 'needs' a pen to get to work?



Scott (trying to get back to the topic) B


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## ed4copies (Aug 19, 2010)

No, my point was supposed to be production cost of 2000 vs 1.1 million.

I have said before that there are many more moving parts on a car---sorry I brought it up--you're right!!!


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## SDB777 (Aug 19, 2010)

ed4copies said:


> No, my point was supposed to be production cost of 2000 vs 1.1 million.
> 
> I have said before that there are many more moving parts on a car---sorry I brought it up--you're right!!!


 

Production costs for a Chinese product usually isn't as high as people think.  I would imagine more costs are incurred with all the 'middle men', shipping, the next guy, postage.....

If a product is over-priced with all the 'doom-n-gloom' on the news, people will tend to hold on to their expendable cash until something is absolutely needed....and only then, will they go searching for the best deal.


Scott (everyone has to have a finger in the pie) B


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## Russianwolf (Aug 19, 2010)

ed4copies said:


> No, my point was supposed to be production cost of 2000 vs 1.1 million.
> 
> I have said before that there are many more moving parts on a car---sorry I brought it up--you're right!!!



at the same time, you can use a specific car model to illustrate the demand curve of a product.

Take the PT Cruiser. Look at the sales numbers for th first year, second, all the way up to the most recent year. What you'll most likely see is a peak in the first couple years with a gradual reduction to the most recent time. They recently announced discontinuing the model due to the fact that annual sales aren't keeping the model profitable.

I would wager that the pen kits are similar in that regard. high demand when first introduced, tapering off until sales get so slow as to make the holding cost more than the profits realized.

When the demand reduces you have two choices. Offer it at a discount, or stop offering it.


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## makaiolani (Aug 19, 2010)

Hi guys,

I just came across this post and I thought I'd chime in.  The high end kits are very expensive to carry.  Minimum order is 500 of each plating.  Let's say a high end kit cost me 18.  That's 9000 just for one plating which doesn't include customs and shipping which usually tacks on another 10%.  That's 30k for three platings for just 1500 kits.  Crazy.

Anyway I usually carry kits that are not too ornate.  I feel that the beauty should come from the materials put into the pen.  I'm saving for a replacement for the retros or I might be changing the Havana Fountains slightly.


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## PenMan1 (Aug 19, 2010)

NewLondon88 said:


> As I've watched kit prices going up and up and up, I figured they'd raise
> the prices until we stopped buying and then back them down a little till
> we started buying again. Then the prices would stabilize there. But this time
> they've taken another tack; dropping the higher end kits.
> ...


 

Yep. I think the missing high end pens will eventually hurt the big resellers. And they priced themselves right out of the market. 

In the past, I made huge CUSA orders. Now, without the Imperials, Lotus, among other missing sets,  basicly I buy the $9.99 Micromesh pads from them. I can buy Jr's and other comparable sets from other sources at much reduced pricing.


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## OKLAHOMAN (Aug 19, 2010)

Andy,just curious where are you getting Jr.'s at a reduced price.





PenMan1 said:


> I can buy Jr's and other comparable sets from other sources at much reduced pricing.


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## greggas (Aug 19, 2010)

ed4copies said:


> James,
> 
> As you know, I see most things as a "marketing guy".
> 
> ...



Ed You have have hit the nail on the head .
The problem  is that CUSA has only eliminated high end kist over the last two years and have not added any new kits leaving a huge void IMHO


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## bitshird (Aug 19, 2010)

OKLAHOMAN said:


> Andy,just curious where are you getting Jr.'s at a reduced price.



Roy, there's this guy up north that saves you a buck or two on these kits, He's an OK guy, but his Wife is a real Princess.


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## jskeen (Aug 19, 2010)

ed4copies said:


> James,
> 
> As you know, I see most things as a "marketing guy".
> 
> ...



Also, I tend to think that this is what they were planning to do with the lotus and then the imperial.  They probably had built up a pretty good backstock of emperors meeting that minimum annual purchase to keep their exclusive on them, and decided not to get any more.   But then I don't believe either the lotus or imperial sold even as well as the Emperor had.  I suspect there is a beancounter somewhere at csusa trying to decide when to pull the trigger on the next $40+ kit.  He's just not quite convinced the demand is there yet.  

My opinion only, YMMV


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## OKLAHOMAN (Aug 19, 2010)

Ken, This northern plastic man is great but I buy my kits at the deepest discount(100kits) from CSUSA and him and his princess of a wife as much as they may like me are in business to make a profit.....:biggrin:


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## Woodlvr (Aug 19, 2010)

Just curious about the new Venus kit for $43.99- It looks like a Gent with engraving- Is this a replacement for the Emporer types? I can see why it is so hard to stock these kits.


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## bitshird (Aug 19, 2010)

Woodlvr said:


> Just curious about the new Venus kit for $43.99- It looks like a Gent with engraving- Is this a replacement for the Emporer types? I can see why it is so hard to stock these kits.



Mike, to me it doesn't even look close, it's a Statesman with a "Glass Crystal in the cap and Glass crystals set in the center band" The Chinese must think we are a bunch of Crows that will go after any thin that glitters.


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## OKLAHOMAN (Aug 19, 2010)

It's a retrofitted Jr. Statesmen even uses the same bushings haven't seen one in person yet but willing to bet the rollerball nib could be replaced with the fountain pen nib from the other Jr.'s





Woodlvr said:


> Just curious about the new Venus kit for $43.99- It looks like a Gent with engraving- Is this a replacement for the Emporer types? I can see why it is so hard to stock these kits.


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## TurnaPen (Aug 19, 2010)

*Don't Forget the Aussie Suppliers*

We have a couple of well respected Aussie Suppliers that will ship to USA
1. GPWWoodturning.com au  Has Emperor, Etc
2. Timberbits.com has some High end pen  kits also
Amos


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## Woodlvr (Aug 19, 2010)

Thanks guys. I was browsing the new products at CSUSA and noticed the Venus and was curious. It is not a kit that I would purchase. I have to get up my courage to try my gator blanks and let them go, Roy your gator pen looked great on the kit you chose but I could not pull that one off.


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## arioux (Aug 19, 2010)

greggas said:


> Ed You have have hit the nail on the head .
> The problem  is that CUSA has only eliminated high end kist over the last two years and have not added any new kits leaving a huge void IMHO



Well the way i see it, the have added a new line, the "apprentice".  This should tell us something


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## Kev (Aug 20, 2010)

Amos, you beat me to it.. I am sure David would appreciate some international orders.

Kev



WoodenInk said:


> We have a couple of well respected Aussie Suppliers that will ship to USA
> 1. GPWWoodturning.com au Has Emperor, Etc
> 2. Timberbits.com has some High end pen kits also
> Amos


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## PenMan1 (Aug 20, 2010)

bitshird said:


> OKLAHOMAN said:
> 
> 
> > Andy,just curious where are you getting Jr.'s at a reduced price.
> ...


 
Dammit Ken! You are a great guy, but you can't keep a secret for squat.

Roy, Somebody has to fill the void for the guys like you and me. Ed is working on that for us. If he can't, I'll go direct. a major PITA, but very doable... I bought direct before and it ain't ropcket science.


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## PenMan1 (Aug 20, 2010)

WoodenInk said:


> We have a couple of well respected Aussie Suppliers that will ship to USA
> 1. GPWWoodturning.com au Has Emperor, Etc
> 2. Timberbits.com has some High end pen kits also
> Amos


 

Yes, they ship to the "colonies", but so far the pricing is WAY out of line... making it "reasonable" to explore a direct purchasing agreement.

If your look at it seriosly, I make really only 3 "kit" pens....1500 pieces....I cna make and sell most of them... the others I can sell.


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## PenMan1 (Aug 20, 2010)

My conversatons (e-mails) so far, is that 500 piece mimimums is a "negotiating point". China's economy( yes, dayacom is China, too) ain't "all that" either. 

In reality, you can direct buy at 250 piece minimums...AS LONG AS YOU BUY MORE THAN ONE PRODUCT. I have NO intention of becoming a "kit" seller,(too much unproductive time and too much loading language "translators"!) However, those of use who make a LOT of one or two "kits" would be stupid NOT to help out a fellow IAP member keep the product that we use. I miss the IMP and the Lotus, but as long as we are at it, might as well get some JR's..


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## PenMan1 (Aug 20, 2010)

Woodlvr said:


> Just curious about the new Venus kit for $43.99- It looks like a Gent with engraving- Is this a replacement for the Emporer types? I can see why it is so hard to stock these kits.


 
For $45 a kit, I'll hire a jeweler facing hard times to investment cast my pieces. I buy buy no new "stuff" and he has a reliable partner. I have never and WILL never pay $40 for "bright work"!

Now, if Schmidt refills go above $2, then I'll quit! Some companies (WOODCRAFT, et. at) have been raping us long enough!


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## Caden_Hrabak (Aug 20, 2010)

You know if i had some sort of money to invest that would be a good idea very small time seller only a few kits but rare kits


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## Smitty37 (Aug 20, 2010)

*Kit costs*

If you look at the actual manufacturing cost of pen kits, it is, in my opinion,  a very small part of the final retail price.  US retailers buy F.O.B. Taiwan or China so there is Packing for Shipping,  Air Transport, Customs clearance, Ground Transport costs getting them here.  That alone can add 15% or more to the cost of the kits.  

Having been involved in a manufacturing facility I have an idea of the added costs that go into a wholesale price before an item leaves the factory and they are legion.  Sales & Marketing, Administration, Fixed Overhead, Variable Overhead, Quality Control, Engineering, Employee Benefits (and I suspect even the Chinese have some), Taxes, Cost of money.  They just go on and on.  Our actual manufacturing costs was usually no more than about 20/25% of the out the door costs.  

My guess is that inventory turnover (or lack thereof) is the major reason sellers are discontinuing some lines.  I know that is the reason I am considering dropping a number of items I sell.  It is hard to justify having 
dollars tied up in MOQ just gathering dust on the shelves regardless of the individual style and the exact dollar amount.  Pen kits make mighty thin soup.


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## Smitty37 (Aug 20, 2010)

*Yup*



PenMan1 said:


> My conversatons (e-mails) so far, is that 500 piece mimimums is a "negotiating point". China's economy( yes, dayacom is China, too) ain't "all that" either.
> 
> In reality, you can direct buy at 250 piece minimums...AS LONG AS YOU BUY MORE THAN ONE PRODUCT. I have NO intention of becoming a "kit" seller,(too much unproductive time and too much loading language "translators"!) However, those of use who make a LOT of one or two "kits" would be stupid NOT to help out a fellow IAP member keep the product that we use. I miss the IMP and the Lotus, but as long as we are at it, might as well get some JR's..


 
A long know truth...when the US Economy gets a cold, the world sneezes.


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## Willee (Aug 20, 2010)

Yes ... there is a wide price gap.
Look at the Slimline kit.
Chrome plated kits for less than $2 each per 100 piece order.
Now plate the same parts in something else and the price just about triples.
Is TN really that much more to plate per kit than Chrome?

I am asking cause I really dont know.


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## Smitty37 (Aug 20, 2010)

*Small Seller*

Given the proliferation of finishes (I think Fancy Slimlines are now available in close to 25 finishes if not that many) and given the cost of maintaining inventory I think many sellers are going to have to be selective about what kits they carry.  They're caught between a rock and a hard place.If they buy in low quantities they can't price the item right to move and if they buy MOQ they have a high initial outlay and margins are squeezed.   My own business plan reflects gradually moving to smaller gross sales of higher profit items and dropping a lot of slow moving things.


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## Mapster (Aug 20, 2010)

My opinion, which may be totally off, is that we could find a way. We have over 9000 users on IAP. Lets say only 2000 make these higher end pens. Out of that, lets say only half actually use the site to it's potential. That is 1000 that probably want the same few pen kits. We have the power in numbers to organize the biggest group buy on IAP. If everyone put in as much as they want, some people buy 2 kits, some 200, and no one was looking for a profit, we could all benefit. The people looking for a profit, no offense intended, are the ones who kill the prices. With that buying power if we worked through one person directly with Dayacom, we could all get these pen kits we like at the absolute base cost. No one makes a profit, but we all get the best deal possible. It would be cost effective if we got a big enough group and everyone splits the price.


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## Smitty37 (Aug 20, 2010)

*NO*



Willee said:


> Yes ... there is a wide price gap.
> Look at the Slimline kit.
> Chrome plated kits for less than $2 each per 100 piece order.
> Now plate the same parts in something else and the price just about triples.
> ...


 The short answer is no.  Virtually all of the costs putting TI kits in the hands of the supplier except the actual cost of the plating material and process is the same.  Costs except for some supplier inventory costs getting the item from the supplier to the retailer are the same.  Price to the retailer is about 50 to 75% more for TI.


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## Smitty37 (Aug 20, 2010)

*Poor assumption*



Mapster said:


> My opinion, which may be totally off, is that we could find a way. We have over 9000 users on IAP. Lets say only 2000 make these higher end pens. Out of that, lets say only half actually use the site to it's potential. That is 1000 that probably want the same few pen kits. We have the power in numbers to organize the biggest group buy on IAP. If everyone put in as much as they want, some people buy 2 kits, some 200, and no one was looking for a profit, we could all benefit. The people looking for a profit, no offense intended, are the ones who kill the prices. With that buying power if we worked through one person directly with Dayacom, we could all get these pen kits we like at the absolute base cost. No one makes a profit, but we all get the best deal possible. It would be cost effective if we got a big enough group and everyone splits the price.


 
And the poor soul who spends hours and hours coordinating this super group buy....what does he/she get for their time.  A group buy with 1000 members....at just 15 minutes for each buyer you're talking 400 hours, and my guess is that just packing for shipping after the kits are received could use that much time.


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## Mapster (Aug 20, 2010)

Have it be a local chapter of poor souls who can all work together, and just to be nice, give those poor souls our immense gratitude and depending on the size of the order, maybe 20 free kits a piece. If we were all willing to pay these poor souls maybe 8 dollars for their services as a thank you, which would be worth it for the discount and kits we would get, I am sure they would be pretty happy. Any volunteers?


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## Mapster (Aug 20, 2010)

By the way, if a group buy like this did happen, and if everyone bought enough pens to stock up for a while, we could expect to be ordering probably 2000-4000 kits which is well over the 500 minimum. We could theoretically get a quantity discount from Dayacom. It would take a lot of work and full cooperation of everone involved, but we could do it if we tried. Count me in and let me know if you are interested. Lets see how many people are interested to see if it is even plausible.


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## Mapster (Aug 20, 2010)

Absolute worst case scenario, we can only group up about 50-100 people, we could still manage the 500 minimum order, get the kits we like, and save money at the same time.


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## Greg O'Sherwood (Aug 20, 2010)

IF this happened, it may be easier to have one person in each area be the receiver/distributor for everone around them. For example, have everyone's kits in the Kansas City area go to one person and those folks all meet up to divy them out. This would make the job easier on the group buy organizer(s).

.


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## Mapster (Aug 20, 2010)

Everyone interested or have any comments or concerns, visit my new thread on the subjet. Please let me know if you are interested.

http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=66482

Great idea by the way Greg, please add it to my thread if possible.


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## ed4copies (Aug 20, 2010)

Mapster said:


> Absolute worst case scenario, we can only group up about 50-100 people, we could still manage the 500 minimum order, get the kits we like, and save money at the same time.



You need to order 500 OF ONE STYLE!!!
A FOUNTAIN PEN IS NOT A ROLLERBALL, FOR THIS DISCUSSION!!

An Emperor is not an Imperial or a JR. Emperor.

500 kits is easy, if you could use everything Dayacom makes----you CAN'T

And, yes, you can GET 300, but the total cost will be very close to the 500 cost.  

Let's say 500 @ $25 per kit=$12,500
300 kits may cost you about $10,000, cost per kit is now $33.33

THEN, remember this all EXCLUDES shipping, customs, insurance (you are responsible for the kits, you paid in advance, you have no recourse!!)

WOULD I help you in such a purchase??  YES.
But you would NOT LIKE the contract you would have to sign before you would be included.  ALL RISK is on YOU!!  This is completely consistent with the way I have to purchase kits from overseas.  If you want a deal where the vendor has nothing to gain (profit), you will find it's hard to find a vendor who will risk LOSING anything!!!

People who have the ability to GET loans to support small businesses have to be able to show the bank they have avoided LOSING money for some period of years, while running businesses with all their assets "at risk".  Once you have that track record, every purchase you make is another RISK---we take that very seriously.



IT is neither SIMPLE nor PRETTY!!!

For this one time, let me sign: Ed (business consultant to Dawn)
Each of us has an investment in Exotics, but we BOTH have a track record with my real business--me since 1975 as founder and president of the corp, she has handled the billing and accounting since 1982.  We, together, have a "steet cred" with the banks, as well as "hard assets" (own a house and "other" things).  In today's economic climate, you will find banks have no interest in "startups".


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## DCBluesman (Aug 20, 2010)

Popcorn's in the microwave and soda's on ice! :biggrin:


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## witz1976 (Aug 20, 2010)

DCBluesman said:


> Popcorn's in the microwave and soda's on ice! :biggrin:



Yea?  Where's the Kool-Aid :biggrin::biggrin:


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## Smitty37 (Aug 20, 2010)

*Agree*



ed4copies said:


> Mapster said:
> 
> 
> > Absolute worst case scenario, we can only group up about 50-100 people, we could still manage the 500 minimum order, get the kits we like, and save money at the same time.
> ...


 
This one Ed and I agree on. I'm an older man then Ed so I operate my business without borrowed funds but, otherwise my position is pretty much the same. Just think of this....the shipping cost is actually different for each style of kit that has a different weight. So who is going to figure out how to split the shipping costs for different weights or will the coordinator just make those who order lighter kits subsidize those who order heavier kits...in any case just about every different style, type and finish will have a different price which will also vary by quantity you'll get a better price for 1000 than for 500. Just the bookkeeping will be a nightmare.  In my own business I try very hard to order only 1 style at a time in order to keep the shipping the same for all kits.

Don't let me discourage anyone but don't bite off more than you want to chew. You'll need to find someone with the energy off Superman, the wisdom of Soloman and the patience of Job to coordinate this. You are talking about a lot of work.


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## Kaspar (Nov 1, 2010)

WoodenInk said:


> We have a couple of well respected Aussie Suppliers that will ship to USA
> 1. GPWWoodturning.com au  Has Emperor, Etc
> 2. Timberbits.com has some High end pen  kits also
> Amos



Yes, and believe me I have taken note of that.  I've already gotten some of Gary's Super Sedonas (as I call them.)

While we're at it, let's do a group buy on these.  (Truthfully, I would be willing to shell out for a rose gold, and the gold and sterling silver.)


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## PenMan1 (Nov 1, 2010)

ed4copies said:


> RussFairfield said:
> 
> 
> > Could be because they have to import them by the thousands, and only a few of us are buying them 1 or 2 at a time.
> ...


 
Perhaps NOBODY will make that rather risky investment. I suspect that is why Dayacom has directly opened up to small quantity purchase option (20-30 units).

Ed, you are "dead on", my friend. Try explaining a $100,000 investment to make maybe 10 percent over 2-3 years to the typical small business banker! That "floor plan" simply will not fly in our current economy.


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## Smitty37 (Nov 1, 2010)

*Or any other*



PenMan1 said:


> ed4copies said:
> 
> 
> > RussFairfield said:
> ...


 
No it won't fly...it also won't fly for most businessmen.  Inventory costs are very real and even at low interest rates lost income and lost opportunity income can add up in a hurry.  If I can invest $10,000 in inventory that I can turn over 3 times a year or in inventory that I can turn over once in two years, just which do you think I'm going to choose.


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## Kaspar (Nov 1, 2010)

ed4copies said:


> ...IT is neither SIMPLE nor PRETTY!!! ....



Sounds like the voice of experience here.  :wink:



> ...  We, together, have a "steet cred" with the banks, as well as "hard assets" (own a house and "other" things).  In today's economic climate, you will find banks have no interest in "startups".


Yes, but tomorrow we can start changing that.  Vote early, vote often.  :biggrin:


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## Smitty37 (Nov 1, 2010)

*Which State*



Kaspar said:


> ed4copies said:
> 
> 
> > ...IT is neither SIMPLE nor PRETTY!!! ....
> ...


 You sure that is Springfield, MO and not IL ... But then MO did give us Boss Pendergast.


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