# Is this correct?



## coach (Feb 20, 2005)

I sand 150, 240, 320, and 400 grits.  I then use EEE Ultra Shine and finsh the pen with Shellawax Cream.  I'm sure there are better ways to finish, but will this work?  I mean will it last ok?  Is there another product I need on top of the shellawax?  When I need a new product, I intend on getting some of that stuff y'all talk about on here that smells like coconut.  Just let me know if the pens I have already turned are going to last the way I have done it.  Thanks!!!

Y'all's ideas have been very helpful!!!!!  Saved me many "learning experiences!"


----------



## wicook (Feb 20, 2005)

I am quite pleased with the Shellawax finish. I finish to about 1500 grit sandpaper, then seal with 2 or 3 coats of shellac, then finish with 4 or 5 coats of Shellawax or HUT Crystal Coat and have had very good results from the finishes. You'll see that every member has their own preferred way of finishing their pens, but I like to be able to tell people that the finish is natural. I also like the feel of the shellac/wax finishes.

I tried a CA finish once, but had a nasty reaction to the CA. I haven't yet tried the EEE, but plan to pick some up on my next trip to Calgary. I hope to be able to cut out some of the sandpaper grades that I'm using.


----------



## coach (Feb 20, 2005)

Only hitting the pen with 4 sandpapers then the polish is very time saving.  I don't think you will tell the difference.  Thanks for the info.


----------



## wdcav1952 (Feb 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by coach_
> <br />Only hitting the pen with 4 sandpapers then the polish is very time saving.  I don't think you will tell the difference.  Thanks for the info.



Coach,
I was taught that the coach is always right, but this time I beg to differ.  An Enduro finish by the famous "Swindlehurst Method" that is preceded by sanding to 1500, followed by micro mesh to 12,000 will show you the difference.  If you are happy with your finish, that's great, but if you can't tell the difference, an optometry visit may be in order. []


----------



## Ligget (Feb 20, 2005)

Im with William on this one ! It only takes a a few seconds with each grade! THE MORE GRADES UP TO VERY VERY FINE THE BETTER!!


----------



## DCBluesman (Feb 20, 2005)

Examine your blanks before you put anything on them.  If they pass your inspection, it's right.  If not, add another level or two of sandpaper.  It's a very personal thing. As for EEE and Shellawax, again if it meets your inspection, it's good.  It may not be the most durable, but again, you are the judge of what you want.  Once you decide, make it the finest process you can.


----------



## wdcav1952 (Feb 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by HISNIBS_
> <br />Im with William on this one ! It only takes a a few seconds with each grade! THE MORE GRADES UP TO VERY VERY FINE THE BETTER!!



It is hard to beat the team of a Scotsman and an Irish man! []  We might argue over the comparative merits of Jameson and Glenfiddich, but we agree on finishing. []


----------



## Ligget (Feb 20, 2005)

Thank you William, thats a drink I owe you!


----------



## melogic (Feb 20, 2005)

Coach,
I will only add one thing, and this is MY personal preference. I now add a coat or two of TSW after the HUT Crystal Coat or whatever your last finish is. It is simple, natural, smells great, looks awesome and holds up very good for me so far.


----------



## Gregory Huey (Feb 20, 2005)

Coach
You can be your own best judge. Carry and use a pen with your finish and you will see how it changes as the finish wears off and how long that will take.


----------



## jkirkb94 (Feb 20, 2005)

Coach, a lot of us use Renaissance Wax as the last coat.  You can get it from Bill Baumbeck at Arizona Silhouette.  I protects the finish as well as the metal.  Kirk[8D]


----------



## dougle40 (Feb 20, 2005)

I'm in agreement with the others with regards to finer sandpaper . There's many times when I'm using a very hard wood and the finishing cuts were made with the skew that I START with 320 paper .I used to sand to 1500 grit then finish , then I tried some MM to 12,000 and found a big difference but I don't like the fact that it can melt on the pen so I've changed my sanding method to go to 3000 grit paper .
As the instructor that taught the pen making course that I took said -- "Your finish will only be as good as your sanding".


----------



## John Carr (Feb 20, 2005)

I sand thru 1500 grit, then use gray Scotchbrite (or its generic equivalent). Then I apply two or three coats of Mylands Cellulose Sanding Sealer if I'm turning an open-grain wood, sanding with the gray Scotchbrite between coats, and top it off with two or three coats of either Mylands Friction Polish or Hut Crystal Coat. Works for me.


----------



## Fleabit (Feb 21, 2005)

As stated above, sanding is a personal preference.  BUT...I would try this:  Make a pen with your normal method, and than make the same pen sanding to 3,000 or 12,000 etc.  Do the finishes and than let people handle them and give their opinion.  You might be surprised.  I used to finish to 320-400 grit.  I than moved to 12,000 MM and the difference was HUGE!  I still have the original pens that only went to 320 and they are not near as nice looking, but do feel more like a wood pen.  Again, just suggestions.  Each creates to his own.  If you like it...it is GOOD!


----------



## Rifleman1776 (Feb 21, 2005)

> _Originally posted by John Carr_
> <br />I sand thru 1500 grit, then use gray Scotchbrite (or its generic equivalent). Then I apply two or three coats of Mylands Cellulose Sanding Sealer if I'm turning an open-grain wood, sanding with the gray Scotchbrite between coats, and top it off with two or three coats of either Mylands Friction Polish or Hut Crystal Coat. Works for me.



  I have been using Klingspore gold starting with 220 grit, then 400 then the white 'scotchbrite'. That is fine on hard hardwoods and pleases me. But open grains like hickory, ash, box elder and other softer woods leave an unsatisfactory surface. Myland's with sanding sealer then their friction finish gives a very nice final product. But, spelled BUT, it is not durable. I switched to Myland's melamine and just cannot get an attractive finish with it and it seems to be no more durable than the original Myland's.
  Two questions: is the gray scotchbrite a finer pad than white? The white is rated at 1200 grit. And, how do you close up open grains?


----------



## coach (Feb 21, 2005)

Thanks for the replys and advice.  I am a complete novice.  I have had my lathe for just over 2 weeks now.  For those of you who thought I was arguing against your finishes, I am not!  I am just trying to learn.  I only know how to finish from what I was taught.  Is the finer sandpaper easy to find?  I have MM for that I used on a crushed velvet pen I tried this weekend.  I think it is too expensive to use for all of my pens though.  So now lets hear about your inexpensive ways to sand!


----------



## wdcav1952 (Feb 21, 2005)

> _Originally posted by coach_
> <br />Thanks for the replys and advice.  I am a complete novice.  I have had my lathe for just over 2 weeks now.  For those of you who thought I was arguing against your finishes, I am not!  I am just trying to learn.  I only know how to finish from what I was taught.  Is the finer sandpaper easy to find?  I have MM for that I used on a crushed velvet pen I tried this weekend.  I think it is too expensive to use for all of my pens though.  So now lets hear about your inexpensive ways to sand!



Coach, I didn't think you were arguing, I'm just a smart a--!  I could get up to 1500 full size sandpaper sheets at Ace Hardware in Louisiana, so try there.  Also, Walmart sells up to 2000 grit in their automotive section by the auto paints.  It is about 1/3 sheet size.  For the micro mesh, if you use it carefully, meaning light touch and <u></u>keep it moving!<u></u> it will last for months.  It can be carefully washed.  I usually turn in old jeans, just wipe each strip on your pants to clean it.  Cut the micro mesh into 1 inch strips for ease of use.  I posted it for someone, but http://www.internationalviolin.com is a good source for micro mesh.  They sell it for $4 per 6 x 12 sheet.  From the home page, do a search for micro mesh.  Everyone has their own opinion, but I only use 4000, 6000, 8000, and 12,000 grits.  I hope this helps.

BTW, what do/did you coach [?]


----------



## coach (Feb 21, 2005)

Can I go from 400 to 4000?  Should I use my EEE Ultra shine after 400 then go to 4000?  Or use MM then the friction shine stuff followed by the shellawax?  I think my pens are about to look better!


----------



## dougle40 (Feb 21, 2005)

Coach,
If your talking about going from 400 grit paper to 4000 MM , I wouldn't do that . 4000 MM is the equivalent to 1500 grit paper and you won't remove the scratch marks from 400 grit with 1500 grit , you have to go through the various grits up to 1500 (or 4000 MM)then start you're finishing methods (what ever you prefer).


----------



## coach (Feb 21, 2005)

So from 400 grit, what should I go with next?


----------



## Fred in NC (Feb 21, 2005)

600-1000-1500 is what I use. I use 2000 instead of 4000 MM.


----------



## Gary (Feb 21, 2005)

I go from 400 to 600 then MM 1500 through 12000 not skipping any.


----------



## Rifleman1776 (Feb 21, 2005)

"4000 MM is the equivalent to 1500 grit paper "
That's an eye opener. [:0] I thought you guys were polishing gems or something with your '4000 grit'. Maybe we need a universal language here. []


----------



## Woodnknots (Feb 21, 2005)

You can get the micromesh kit for about $18 from WoodCraft (my favorite store, BTW).  The nice thing about it is that it only takes a few seconds to go through each successive grit, and when the mesh gets clogged, you can throw it in the pocket of a pair of jeans in the washer, and it's good as new.


----------



## coach (Feb 21, 2005)

The Mrs. picked up some 800 and 1000 grit paper at Wal-Mart on her way home.  (the highest grit they had)  I turned a pen and went from 400 to 800 then 1000 grit followed by EEE and then Shellawax.  You were right (and a smart a$$).  It looked great.  I guess it was worth the abuse to get a better finish.  I'll look for some more paper this weekend. 

Thanks again!


----------



## wdcav1952 (Feb 21, 2005)

> _Originally posted by coach_
> <br />The Mrs. picked up some 800 and 1000 grit paper at Wal-Mart on her way home.  (the highest grit they had)  I turned a pen and went from 400 to 800 then 1000 grit followed by EEE and then Shellawax.  You were right (and a smart a$$).  It looked great.  I guess it was worth the abuse to get a better finish.  I'll look for some more paper this weekend.
> 
> Thanks again!



You're married, and you considered what I said abuse[?]  Sounds like your Mrs. is more trainable than mine[)]  Glad my verbal lashing helped in some small way.  Keep up improving your work.  Occasionally I look at my first pen, and see that I am learning something. []


----------



## coach (Feb 22, 2005)

[/quote]

You're married, and you considered what I said abuse[?]  Sounds like your Mrs. is more trainable than mine[)]  Glad my verbal lashing helped in some small way.  Keep up improving your work.  Occasionally I look at my first pen, and see that I am learning something. []

[/quote]

I'm a big boy William.  I think I can handle it!!  You helped me alot with my sanding, but I still don't know if my finish is durable enough, or how to make a durable finish.


----------



## wdcav1952 (Feb 22, 2005)

Coach, I'm not too great at checking the links, files or whatever, but I did find Lou's reprint of Wayne's Enduro poly technique.  The only, I think change to this is that he now recommends letting the Poly coats set overnight as well as the sanding sealer coats.  I use this technique most of the time.  It is not as fast as the CA/BLO technique in the article on the home page, but the pens look and feel better to me using the "Swindlehurst Method"  Reprint courtesy of Wayne and Lou follows:

Courtesy of wayneis:

I sand with sand paper starting with 220 through 400. This part is up to the individual turner as to how smooth and how far you turn your blank. You may need to start with 150 or whatever you feel is better. Next I use Micro Mesh 1500 through 12,000 at the slowest speed keeping the Micro Mesh moving at all times. Remember Micro Mesh will melt. 

For the sanding sealer and the Enduro I use Viva paper towel. I cut off a piece of towel about 4" x 6" and fold into a 1/2" to 3/4" x 6" strip. I make two, one for the sanding sealer and one for the Enduro. I also purchased a couple small bottles like CA comes in and I put my sanding sealer in one and Enduro in the other. Its a lot easier that trying to drip from a quart container. I now put on three coats of sanding sealer. With the lathe again running at the lowest speed I hold the folded paper towel behind the slowly turning blank and drip sanding sealer on the top of the blank moving the towel back and forth to even out the SS. The sanding sealer will only take 2 or 3 minutes to dry. After the first coat dries I then put on another just like the first. Lastly with the lathe off, I put a drop at a time on the folded pad I put on the last coat in the opposite direction, from end to end. At this point the sanding sealer will need to cure for in my opinion, at least four to six hours. I let mine cure overnight. 

I take the blank off the mandrel and put on another spare mandrel and work on another pen. Now the sanding sealer has cured and I sand with the Micro Mesh starting with 3200 through 12,000. I DO NOT sand all of the sanding sealer off the blank, I am just smoothing it out and polishing it. I now take the second folded pad of paper towel and again with the blank turning at the slowest speed I put on three coats of Enduro Poly. I do this again holding the pad behind the blank and drip the Enduro on top sliding the pad back and forth a couple times to even it out. Enduro dries very fast so be careful to just even the Enduro out on the blank. I put on three coats total of the Enduro Poly each in the same direction with the lathe running at low speed. There will be rings but they will even out later with the finial sanding and polishing.

From what I've found the cure time is a little faster for the poly than the sanding sealer, I only let the Enduro cure for 3 or 4 hours. I get the Micro Mesh out again and starting with 3200 I lightly smooth the blanks, again with the lathe at low speed. I use all of the Micro Mesh grits from 3200 up to 12,000. At this time if you have a beautiful set of blanks that are ready to be assembled into a pen, or whatever it is you are making.

I hope this helps.


----------



## coach (Feb 22, 2005)

Thank you William!  Here are some pens I turned earlier this evening.





<br />


----------



## DCBluesman (Feb 22, 2005)

Wow, Coach.  That's a big improvement!


----------



## Tom McMillan (Feb 22, 2005)

The latest look real nice Coach!!!  Good work!!!


----------



## Gary (Feb 22, 2005)

Coach, you are definately on a learning fast track...nice work!


----------



## wdcav1952 (Feb 23, 2005)

Cyber High Five, Coach!  Looking good.


----------



## coach (Feb 23, 2005)

Thanks!!!  I really enjoy this and wish I would have found it years ago!  What age did y'all start turning?  I am 30.  Plenty of time to improve.


----------



## wdcav1952 (Feb 23, 2005)

> _Originally posted by coach_
> <br />Thanks!!!  I really enjoy this and wish I would have found it years ago!  What age did y'all start turning?  I am 30.  Plenty of time to improve.



OK Coach, you are now on my hit list. [V]  Since I started about a year and a half ago and am now 52, if I interpret your "ageist " remark correctly, I better get good quickly since I don't have plenty of time to improve?  []  This emoticon is as close as I can get to tongue in cheek.  []


----------



## coach (Feb 23, 2005)

Age is a state of mind William!!!  I am a firm believer of that.  Since I spend every waking hour with high school kids, I like to be young at heart.  Even though they make me feel old most of the time!  LOL


----------

