# CA finishing pricing question...



## vallealbert (Mar 8, 2011)

Hi everybody.  It may be a silly question, but should I ask more money for a pen with CA finishing...for example, I have two Cigar style pens and I ask $35 for the one with just wax finish...the other one with a CA finish...is it fair if I ask, lets say, $40????.  As I stated before, it may be a silly question but I will appreciate your feedback.   Alexander


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## alphageek (Mar 8, 2011)

Personally, for me that question is mute!  Once I learned how to do a CA finish, I wouldn't do any other kind of finish on wood.  (Wax, Friction polish)... There is just no comparison in quality and lasting power.   The higher price for better quality may be justified, but I'd remove the lower quality one from sales.


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## omb76 (Mar 8, 2011)

I would keep the pricing the same for both types of finishes.  What speaks quality for one may not be the same for another.  I spent this weekend working on learning the CA finish myself and when I took a pen into work to show off, I had mixed reactions.  Most liked the finish, but others thought it made the pen look very cheap and fake.  A lot of people like to be able to feel the wood and others prefer the glossy look.  I personally am not 100% sold on it either.  Part of me likes it and part of me says if I wanted a plastic looking pen, then I would make it from acrylic.   Just because it doesn't have a CA finish doesn't mean the quality is any less than one that does.


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## SteveG (Mar 8, 2011)

It is your choice what type(s) of finish to offer, and price accordingly. You would be in a position of having to explain the price difference for otherwise identical pens. If you are OK with that, try the differential.  The market place will help you decide. If it works, keep it. If not, change it.
Steve


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## DonWood (Mar 8, 2011)

Just my .02 cents - The market that I sell to constantly remarks about how much they love the high gloss finish of CA.  This gives me the opportunity to explain to folks that the finish will be long lasting unlike other types of finishes.  Seems to help me make a sale.


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## le_skieur (Mar 11, 2011)

I do no not think the ca finish is the reason of the cost!

It is not a mater of finish but what is under the finish!


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## ctubbs (Mar 12, 2011)

A few months back, there was a thread about CA vs Wood.  I forget who did the trial but the jest of the thing went something like this.  He polished one pen to high gloss, just wood finished via sanding to a very high gloss.  Then he finished a CA finish to a satin finish and asked many people which pen they preferred.  Many chose the CA finish claiming they liked the feel of natural wood over the plastic looking finish of the real bare wood.  The eye tells the brain what the finger feels quiet often.
I would either charge the same price for both or only offer one.  You could offer both with a quality CA finish, just one with a satin finish.  That way the timber would have good protection whichever finish the client preferred.
Charles


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## Rangertrek (Mar 13, 2011)

Your market area will eventually guide you in your decision on the finish.  I started with a friction polish on my first pen a few years ago.  Now, all I do is a CA finish on all my pens.  After a few quality craft shows, the market was for quality, long lasting finish on the wood pens.  Give your price point difference try, if it works for you, great.  If not, you will know what to do.


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## IPD_Mrs (Mar 13, 2011)

Personally, I think it is very easy to sell UP the CA finish. When asked which is better I can always tell the story of my customer who ran his DIW Burl FP through the washing machine. It still looks just as good today as the day he received it. That would likely NOT be the case if it had only had a friction wax finish on it. Admittedly he did need a new nib :frown: but he was also goofy enough to leave it in his pants pocket and just toss them in the wash 

The other point I can always make is that if you do not want to have to treat your pen like a piece of furniture (cleaning it and waxing it / polishing it routinely) then the CA finish is great.  CA allows you to enjoy the beauty of nature's finest artwork, without having to maintain the wood or risk the damage caused by the nature of skin (oils, dirt grime) which the tree/wood is not generally exposed too in its natural setting.  With a CA finish you can just buff it clean with a soft cloth after use and it maintains the beauty just as it is when you purchase it.

Is it worth $5?  No .. it's worth MORE.  Price points on our pens went up considerably when we learned to do CA finishes and fine tuned this craft.  

Just my 1/2 cent (inflation you know)

_Linda_


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## Dave Turner (Mar 13, 2011)

I charge more for a CA finish simply because it takes me longer to do. Since all my wood pens have a CA finish, I compare it to polymer resin pens, which I just polish without CA.  I also charge more for pens with two body pieces as opposed to a single piece.

Here is my formula for setting my minimum price (much of this is arbitrary for me, but it seems to work):

Actual cost of pen kit, blank, upgraded refill, case + $20 for single body piece or $30 for dual body piece + $5 for CA finish + $10 for misc. costs (supplies, web site update time, etc.) = Minimum price

I then look at the finished pen. If it seems like it has lots of "wow" factor, I'll raise the asking price some more. I also like even numbers so I tend to round up to the next even number.

I previously charged $25 for dual body pens, but since I turn everything between centers, doing two pieces is almost twice the work of one, so I just now decided to up it to $30.  I usually give family and friends a discount, varying on how well I know them and whether the pen is for themselves or not.  I'm surprised how often they will ask me how long it took me to make the pen.  I answer honestly (usually about 2 to 4 hours if everything goes right). They realize they are getting a bargain.

Dave


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## vallealbert (Mar 17, 2011)

Many thanks all of you for your priceless advices....I much appreciate it.


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## itzapen (Mar 21, 2011)

Alexander,
    You bring up a valid point, and so do some of the others.  Personally I do every pen, be it wood or acrylic with a 8 coat CA finish.  It takes me about 5-6 mins to do that finish, and it looks like pure glass.  I see no reason to increase my price structure because I choose CA over some other type of finish.  When a pen leaves my shop, I want it to be the very best it can ever be, and have as long a ware ability as I can put into it. I want every customer to have years of service and beauty from their pen.  A good CA finish will last a lot longer and still maintain it's look far longer than a non-CA finish.  That's my $0.02 worth.
Clyde


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## vallealbert (Mar 22, 2011)

itzapen said:


> Alexander,
> You bring up a valid point, and so do some of the others.  Personally I do every pen, be it wood or acrylic with a 8 coat CA finish.  It takes me about 5-6 mins to do that finish, and it looks like pure glass.  I see no reason to increase my price structure because I choose CA over some other type of finish.  When a pen leaves my shop, I want it to be the very best it can ever be, and have as long a ware ability as I can put into it. I want every customer to have years of service and beauty from their pen.  A good CA finish will last a lot longer and still maintain it's look far longer than a non-CA finish.  That's my $0.02 worth.
> Clyde


Thank you very much Clyde!!!!


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## 76winger (Mar 22, 2011)

omb76 said:


> I would keep the pricing the same for both types of finishes.  What speaks quality for one may not be the same for another.  I spent this weekend working on learning the CA finish myself and when I took a pen into work to show off, I had mixed reactions.  Most liked the finish, but others thought it made the pen look very cheap and fake.  A lot of people like to be able to feel the wood and others prefer the glossy look.  I personally am not 100% sold on it either.  Part of me likes it and part of me says if I wanted a plastic looking pen, then I would make it from acrylic.   Just because it doesn't have a CA finish doesn't mean the quality is any less than one that does.



This mostly states my own opion and I use both as well. But One thing that leads me to choose a CA finish for a wood pen has to do with the qualities of the wood. 

If I'm turning a really smooth and hard wood like Pink Ivory or Ebony, I'll usually go with a wax type finish and let the feel of the wood make it's own statement to the buyer. But If I'm sturning a softer wood or spalted piece, I'll use the CA finish to stablize that softer wood and put it's hard protective coating on top as well. 

Anything in-between will get whichever finish I visualize at the time will give the final apearance I'm trying to create at the time.


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## leehljp (Mar 23, 2011)

ctubbs said:


> A few months back, there was a thread about CA vs Wood.  I forget who did the trial but the jest of the thing went something like this.  He polished one pen to high gloss, just wood finished via sanding to a very high gloss.  Then he finished a CA finish to a satin finish and asked many people which pen they preferred.  Many chose the CA finish claiming they liked the feel of natural wood over the plastic looking finish of the real bare wood.  The eye tells the brain what the finger feels quiet often. . . .
> Charles



Here is the link:
http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=32496&highlight=shine

Waxes do not protect in the long term like CA and other clear acrylic - lacquer - poly etc. does. What new pen turners who like the "real feel" of wood do not realize is that wood pens are used in a totally different way than fine waxed wood furniture is used.

Fine hand rubbed and waxed wood furniture and display items are not subjected to the temperature, humidity swings and subtle caustic acid in hangling of pens - that go from outside, in the car, in the shirt pocket to inside and air condition. They do not go through the humidity changes that occur from an air conditioned low humidity room to 90% outside to 100% in a shirt pocket. Most Fine furniture is waxed and cleaned after handling where as pens go through handling with dirty hands and shirt pocket moisture several times a day. 

Hand and shirt moisture, dirt and grime are caustic to waxes. CA and the other (but not alcohol based or thinned) finishes *do* protect in ways that waxes do not. Alcohol based and thinned (Shellac types) are better than just waxed wood, but they still need to be much more effectively cleaned and handled. It is my observation that fountain pen aficionados have this tenacity to "clean" their pens and treat them in a way that can handle lower tolerance finishes. Your average pen user does not have this and will probably complain 6 months to a year down the road of the dirty pen that won't clean off. If you are trying to establish a name for yourself with quality pens, waxed finishes can come back to haunt you. Customers have long memories of pens that won't let go of dirt and grime.


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## vallealbert (Mar 23, 2011)

leehljp said:


> ctubbs said:
> 
> 
> > A few months back, there was a thread about CA vs Wood.  I forget who did the trial but the jest of the thing went something like this.  He polished one pen to high gloss, just wood finished via sanding to a very high gloss.  Then he finished a CA finish to a satin finish and asked many people which pen they preferred.  Many chose the CA finish claiming they liked the feel of natural wood over the plastic looking finish of the real bare wood.  The eye tells the brain what the finger feels quiet often. . . .
> ...



Thank you very much Hank for your valuable comment...


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