# Finish...



## BogBean (Jan 12, 2005)

Which finish do you use the most?


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## Fred in NC (Jan 12, 2005)

Most of my pens are finished with Minwax PolyCrylic.  
Shellac is my sanding sealer.


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## Doghouse (Jan 12, 2005)

I like the durability, speed and safety of lacquer.  You don't end up with the fingers stuck together!


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## J. Fred Muggs (Jan 12, 2005)

I voted for CA.  I use it as a sealer coat/filler/hardener the use friction polish or occasionally laquer as a top coat.  I always wear nitrile gloves when applying the CA so that only the glove fingers get stuck together.[]


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## Guest (Jan 12, 2005)

I didn't answer the poll because I use a laquer based sanding sealer and it's ap[plied with friction, Then I follow it up with a friction polish.
The choice of "friction polish" suggested something like crystal coat which looks nice( for about a day)


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## Guest (Jan 12, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Doghouse_
> <br />I like the durability, speed and safety of lacquer.  You don't end up with the fingers stuck together!


I do like a CA finish,but I've never stuck my fingers together.
(Does gluing a pen mill in a tube count?"


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## DCBluesman (Jan 12, 2005)

I'm trying to match finishes with the woods.  For burls and punky woods, I put a coat of thin CA to set the surface and close any inclusions, then follow it with Optima water-borne lacquer topped with Trade Secret for Wood (TM).  For oily woods like cocobolo, Brazilian rosewood, ebony and olive wood, I use a friction finish or shellac (I prefer shellac) followed by a top coat of TSW.  For most others, I use Optima followed by a top coat of TSW.  For 24kt finished parts, I coat them with Renaissance Wax to add some durability, although I'm starting to powder coat the parts.


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## Woodbutcher68 (Jan 12, 2005)

I use mainly friction polish, but have been experimenting with water-based poly. I put it on and run the lathe very slowly until it dries, then use #0000 steel wool on it. Four or five coats later, I'm done. Whenever I use thin CA, I keep a bottle of remover close by with the top loosened. Experience IS a good teacher!


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## Gregory Huey (Jan 13, 2005)

I use BLO/CA but have also put friction high gloss lacquer on top of this and then a coat of wax on top of that. I do this a lot when I am showing pens to the public. they get handled a lot and they can be buffed right up.


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## woodpens (Jan 13, 2005)

What is the advantage of using BLO? I have been using CA for quite a while. I don't have anything but thin CA right now. When my order for medium and thick CA arrives, I'll try the BLO/CA technique.


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## Fred in NC (Jan 13, 2005)

Jim, I don't use BLO very frequently.  The idea is that is pops the grain and gives the finish more depth or chatoyancy.  Any clear sanding sealer will work if applied properly.  

BLO will also act like a lubricant, much in the way of French Polish.


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## Gary (Jan 13, 2005)

You have to be careful where you use the BLO. With some woods it will give you a splotchy appearance. I use a good sealer instead.


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## Fred in NC (Jan 13, 2005)

Right, Gary.  Like I said above, I use sealer most of the time too.


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## jwoodwright (Jan 13, 2005)

The Ca must be getting to me, so I'm back to friction polish.  Crystal coat and Hut bars...[8D]


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## wayneis (Jan 13, 2005)

woodbutcher68, I would not use steelwool when using any type of water borne type finish.  Steelwool has a tendence to break up and tiny pices get stuck in the wood and then all of a sudden you will start seeing little rust spots[V]  Micro Mesh works the best for this type of finish.

Wayne


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## wayneis (Jan 13, 2005)

I use Enduro on most all of my pens.  It builds up better than CA so I get a lot of depth, it has a softer feel than CA and from what I have been able to see so far it lasts just as long.  But one of the biggest benifits is that Enduro has no toxic smell like CA[xx(]  And I think lastly, its a cheap finish.  The starter kit has a quart of the poly and a quart of sanding sealer which will end up doing hundreds of pens and only costs $25.00.

Wayne


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## Woodbutcher68 (Jan 13, 2005)

Wayne, thanks for the tip. I'll be getting some MicroMesh soon!


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## Old Griz (Jan 13, 2005)

Wayne how long does it take for a couple of coats of Enduro to dry on a pen...... I have been using about 3 coats of CA and after the final 12000 MM wetsanding then polishing with Hut Plastic Polish and some Ren wax.. the finish is fast and great, but I am getting to dislike the fumes... 
Also have you found it to be as tough as CA... 
Thanks..


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## wayneis (Jan 13, 2005)

Tom I do think that it's as tough as CA and it has a better feel, its softer.  It is not as fast as CA though.  Even though Enduro dries fast you do need to let both the sanding sealer and the Enduro cure overnight before sanding.  But if you are like me I have several pens going at once in different stages so I'm still completing pens every day.  Enduro gives you more depth and it has no fumes, it smells pretty much like any other water base poly.  I think you would be surprised at gloss and depth.

Wayne


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## Rifleman1776 (Jan 13, 2005)

Myland's with their sanding sealer.


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## BogBean (Jan 16, 2005)

Fred, I see you posted that you use Polycrylic. How does that finish hold up? I was in Wally world this morning and I see they stock the Polycrylic in small cans. If it is not to much trouble could you post a picture of a pen with the Polycrylic finish? Thanks...Chuck B


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## Fred in NC (Jan 18, 2005)

Chuck:

All the kit pens in my album were finished with PolyCrylic.  Look at the ebony/olive pen, which shows the shine a little better. (Some of my earlier photos came out too flat.) 

The finish holds up very well.  I have carried a pen with this finish for over a year and a half in my shirt pocket, and I put my glasses in the same pocket.  I have looked at pens carried by women in purses for over a year too, and the finish looks good.


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## Andy Ryan (Jan 18, 2005)

Even thoug I marked fricition polish, I started unsing polyurathane(?) I much perfer this to any thing else Ive tried even the blo/ca.


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## TheHeretic (Jan 18, 2005)

Friction polish here but am willing to try other methods.   How do you guys who use the Polycrilic or Polyurathane go about doing this.  For that matter where is a decent article on the CA and/or CA/BLO finish.

Thanks for any and all help.


Dean 
Columbus OH


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## DCBluesman (Jan 18, 2005)

Articles on both methods are as close as our library! http://www.penturners.org/forum/portal.asp?cat=articles


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## wicook (Jan 25, 2005)

I have breathing problems...so no CA for me. I even found that the small bits of Mylands Cellulose Sanding Sealer it takes for a pen has too much toluene in it to avoid asthma reactions. Oh, well, I quite like the finish I'm getting from alcohol-based shellac as the sealer (3 -5 coats) topped off with 3 - 4 coats of Shellawax or Crystal Coat. They may not be quite as durable as Enduro, but with my layout, they work better than something that requires 24-hour drying times.


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## Gary (Jan 25, 2005)

Whatever works for you Bill...that's what matters. It's nice to see you posting.


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## Gregory Huey (Jan 25, 2005)

I am in CHF so I am going to have to stop using the CA and go to something else. I am kind of wondering about the poly crylic.


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## woodscavenger (Jan 25, 2005)

Those are good articles on the CA and CA-BLO but are there any articles or forums that describe the ENDURO method in more detail?


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## Fred in NC (Jan 25, 2005)

MinWax PolyCrylic is water based.  There are no smells or fumes.
I have used it for almost 2 yrs.  I can post instructions if anybody wants them. I use shellac as a sealer.


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## BogBean (Jan 25, 2005)

Hi Fred,
I just bought a small can of Polycrylic at Wally World  so I wish you would post the instructions on how to apply it...Thanks


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## DCBluesman (Jan 25, 2005)

Courtesy of wayneis:

I sand with sand paper starting with 220 through 400. This part is up to the individual turner as to how smooth and how far you turn your blank. You may need to start with 150 or whatever you feel is better. Next I use Micro Mesh 1500 through 12,000 at the slowest speed keeping the Micro Mesh moving at all times. Remember Micro Mesh will melt. 

For the sanding sealer and the Enduro I use Viva paper towel. I cut off a piece of towel about 4" x 6" and fold into a 1/2" to 3/4" x 6" strip. I make two, one for the sanding sealer and one for the Enduro. I also purchased a couple small bottles like CA comes in and I put my sanding sealer in one and Enduro in the other. Its a lot easier that trying to drip from a quart container. I now put on three coats of sanding sealer. With the lathe again running at the lowest speed I hold the folded paper towel behind the slowly turning blank and drip sanding sealer on the top of the blank moving the towel back and forth to even out the SS. The sanding sealer will only take 2 or 3 minutes to dry. After the first coat dries I then put on another just like the first. Lastly with the lathe off, I put a drop at a time on the folded pad I put on the last coat in the opposite direction, from end to end. At this point the sanding sealer will need to cure for in my opinion, at least four to six hours. I let mine cure overnight. 

I take the blank off the mandrel and put on another spare mandrel and work on another pen. Now the sanding sealer has cured and I sand with the Micro Mesh starting with 3200 through 12,000. I DO NOT sand all of the sanding sealer off the blank, I am just smoothing it out and polishing it. I now take the second folded pad of paper towel and again with the blank turning at the slowest speed I put on three coats of Enduro Poly. I do this again holding the pad behind the blank and drip the Enduro on top sliding the pad back and forth a couple times to even it out. Enduro dries very fast so be careful to just even the Enduro out on the blank. I put on three coats total of the Enduro Poly each in the same direction with the lathe running at low speed. There will be rings but they will even out later with the finial sanding and polishing.

From what I've found the cure time is a little faster for the poly than the sanding sealer, I only let the Enduro cure for 3 or 4 hours. I get the Micro Mesh out again and starting with 3200 I lightly smooth the blanks, again with the lathe at low speed. I use all of the Micro Mesh grits from 3200 up to 12,000. At this time if you have a beautiful set of blanks that are ready to be assembled into a pen, or whatever it is you are making.





> _Originally posted by woodscavenger_
> <br />Those are good articles on the CA and CA-BLO but are there any articles or forums that describe the ENDURO method in more detail?


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## Fred in NC (Jan 25, 2005)

This is how I do it:

Put some PolyCrylic in an applicator bottle so you can dispense small amounts.

Sand to 400.

Put a coat of 2 lb cut blonde shellac as a sealer.  (2 parts shellac, 1 part denatured alcohol) Let dry.  If you don't have shellac, use some other sealer, or PolyCrylic.

Sand 400 again to level it.  You want the sealer inside the wood, not on top of it.  

Sand thru the grits. I go 600-2000.

I use a little folded pad to apply the Poly.  Soft cloth or paper towel (white Browny or Viva is best).  

Put a couple drops of Poly on the pad, and apply to the barrels at medium speed.  All you want is a light coat. Save pad with Poly.  Wait until dry to the touch.  Using the same pad, with the lathe stopped, apply Poly longways (usually direction of the grain).  Let dry to the touch. (dries rather fast).

Repeat the above step 3-4 times, using a new pad each time.

Let dry overnight before you wax it.


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## Gary (Jan 25, 2005)

> _Originally posted by woodscavenger_
> <br />Those are good articles on the CA and CA-BLO but are there any articles or forums that describe the ENDURO method in more detail?



You can find an excellent write-up by wayneis on using Enduro at this link:

http://www.penturners.org/yg/showymsg.asp?M=53698&G=penturners&C=S&T=54025


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## Gary (Jan 25, 2005)

LOL...Lou, it looks like you and I are on the same wave length!


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## woodscavenger (Jan 25, 2005)

We ought to be able to "sticky note" this one or at least glean all of the separate methods into one easy to read place that never drops of the pages for everyone to learn from.  Maybe it should be put in the permanent FAQ.


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## Fred in NC (Jan 25, 2005)

As for the PolyCrylic, I realize it is not for everyone, just like other finishes.  I am willing to write up the method for an article if there is enough interest.  

One comment about using shellac as a sanding sealer.  Because of their nature, oily woods tend to reject sealers.  Surface oil can be reduced with a good wiping with DNA (denatured alcohol, not your genes ...).  Shellac will adhere very well then, and as it has been stated before, shellac is considered a "univerlsal sealant."  It will keep the oil from whatever finish you put on top.  You can use any kind of finish on top of shellac.  

As a sealer for oily woods, I do the following:

Sand to 400.
Wipe with DNA.
One coat of shellac. Let dry (few secs.)
Light sanding to level, 400.
One more coat of shellac. Let dry (few secs)
Start sanding at the next grit - 600.

One more tip:  I keep a cheap hair dryer by the lathe.  Use about 12" from the turning barrels for a few seconds.  Saves a lot of time!


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## Gary (Jan 25, 2005)

Fred, I know it takes time, but I for one would like to see a write-up on how you use the PolyCrylic. I've bought a can of it but have yet to try it.


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