# Got a turnig problem need help!!!



## Pipes (May 17, 2006)

Ok I chqanged mandrel shafts twice ! Iam not sure whats going on I have to keep adjusting the live center presure to keep it from making noise a diffrent noise than normal !! and my nib end is coming up out around !! But NOT on every pen I really don't think I have a BAD mandrel shaft ! The live center seems ok I am really confused and at a loss at what to do !!! Iam also I think burned out on turning ! maybe not but frustrated after today and this adjusting thing all the time and my nib end coming up just off center to small on 1 side on some pens NOT all pens !! I changed bushigs and It seem to help but not a complete fix HELP !!!! I doubt Iam burned out BUT I am confused and needed to step away from the lathe because everthing I tried didn't fix the problem !!! gona pick up a couple a shafts tommrow and just check and see maybe I got a couple a BAD ones IT can happen I guess !!   HELP any Ideas !!!! And yes I know NOT totighten the cewter down to tight and to hand tighten the madrel screw after I have set the live ceter and not to tight and and and Iam really confused this time ! Its NOT like I never turned befor I can normaly work thru most problems this one has me going guys !!






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## Dario (May 17, 2006)

Are you using a 60 degree live center?

Is your morse taper driver hole (inside the headstock) and the morse taper clean?  Inspect the taper for signs of wear...a ring like line is a sure sign.


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## Pipes (May 17, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Dario_
> <br />Are you using a 60 degree live center?
> 
> Is your morse taper driver hole (inside the headstock) and the morse taper clean?  Inspect the taper for signs of wear...a ring like line is a sure sign.



Yap  Iam using a 60 and I checked the morse taper on the mandrel and the hole and everthing looks ok I cleaned it anywway thou !
The live center has only been used on about 50 pens and it is wore like they all do I don't think thats the problem do you ??? The pens are not enough off were they can't be sold BUT I can feel it and I know it MOST non turners woud never notice it BUT its driving me nutso[!]



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## Pipes (May 17, 2006)

OK since this about to drive me nuts ! I went out to the shop and just looked and I think I may a found the problem !! My live ceter even thou it is almost new ...Like I said maybe 50 pens turned on it has worn down to like a nipple on the end of it IS THIS normal for pen mandrels to wear a ceter like this so fast !! and could this be the main problem ?????  And I see 2 lines on the morse taper on the mandrel one on the front and one on the back not wear but there lines for sure it feels smooth !! looks to me like were it goes in and stops fron and back s were the lines on it are !! gotta be the MT on the mandrel or the live center any guesses guys ???




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## KingBubbaTruck (May 17, 2006)

Wow,

But you've been turning like crazy and putting out some nice stuff!

Maybe a day off would help?

How old is the live center?  Could it be something is giving out there?

What I've been doing lately, is using a dial indicator to check things out for piece of mind.

Heres an off topic anectdote, I'd recently bought a collet chuck and when I used it there was a weird vibration.  Well, I went through all the things everyone says you should do and I was still convinced it wasn't me.  I pulled out the dial indicator and found that the chuck had been machined off center by about .007, which is definitely enought to see and feel.  Sent it back, got a new one, and all is good.

I guess what I'm saying is maybe taking a step back and think through things and maybe double check things with a measuring device might help.

That being said, I've been using my el-cheapo transfer punches and recycling the hardware from some of my earlier pens, and I'm much happier with the revised work, than the originials....

I'm sure you'll get past it! []


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## Johnathan (May 17, 2006)

Is the Lathe balanced? If your tools are dull you could be pressing too hard. There are so many things that could be wrong. I would just go down the list. Are you turning both ends of the pen at the same time? I find everything is more stable with one at a time. Hope this helps. I would also do a search as many have talked about this problem.


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## Pipes (May 17, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Johnathan_
> <br />Is the Lathe balanced? If your tools are dull you could be pressing too hard. There are so many things that could be wrong. I would just go down the list. Are you turning both ends of the pen at the same time? I find everything is more stable with one at a time. Hope this helps. I would also do a search as many have talked about this problem.



 Tools are sharp for sure I hate dull tools got a slow speed grinder and a woverine system right by me !!I put BOTh on the mandrel BUt turn them 1 at a time is that what you mean ?? or do you mean you put 1 piece on at a time ??? as  for the lathe I stuck a piece a stock between 2 centers and all felt fine it seems ok was throwing nice ribbons on some maple ijust stuck between 2 centers the crap starts when I put on a pen mandrel on the lathe so it the mandrel or shaft or MT or the live center or all a the above may just change it all out !!! !


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## wudwrkr (May 17, 2006)

Pipes,
I had a similar problem with a live center and found that I was not using enough pressure from the tailstock.  This caused the mandrel to spin faster than the live center and wore down the point.  Replacing the live center fixed the problem.

Good luck!


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## KingBubbaTruck (May 17, 2006)

I've got a relatively cheap live center set with a bunch of different inserts that go into it.  I don't think any of them was 60degrees, so I just mounted one of the inserts in a chuck and used a file to file it to a relatively 60degree profile.  That helped me.

As far as the lines on the MT goes, maybe try cleaning both the male and female parts with some mineral spirits?.   Just an idea.  Maybe put some stripes with a sharpy on it so you could see if it wasn't fitting in the taper correctly?


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## Pipes (May 18, 2006)

> _Originally posted by wudwrkr_
> <br />Pipes,
> I had a similar problem with a live center and found that I was not using enough pressure from the tailstock.  This caused the mandrel to spin faster than the live center and wore down the point.  Replacing the live center fixed the problem.
> 
> Good luck!



Iam gona post a pic a this live center I think IMO thats the problem I HOPE anyway and see what you guys think  !! I can fix that with a 30 buck trip to woodcraft tommrow !! :O)


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## Randy_ (May 18, 2006)

I have no idea what is causing your problem; but can say that your 60Â° live center should not be wearing like you describe.  Only way for that to happen is if the live center and the mandrel are not turning at the same speed....some slippage??  Perhaps you need a hair more pressure from the tail stock??


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## Pipes (May 18, 2006)

Ok here is a pic a the live center I use for pen turning and man its wore after only 50 pens or so.... has to be the problem YOU guys take a LOOK and let me know what YOU all think I have no idea whats normal for pen turning being so new to this ..I was or thought I was told not to tighten the tail stock to tight or it would mess things up so I been just snuging it up  just tight not real tight !!maybe this sears center is just crapola and just wore out !! Or I don't know what iam doing most likely I don't know what Iam doing !! IMO


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## pssherman (May 18, 2006)

Pipes,
I had a similar problem on several occasions and traced the problems to:
1) My mandrel had a shiny "band/line" near the middle of the taper. I truns out that the spindle had a slight bulge in the center. I detected this by measuring the runout at the base of the mandrel shaft and by the slight wobble present when the mandrel was gently pushed into the spindle. The problem was corrected by using a finishing taper reamer. The least expensive finishing reamer I found in a shop in the UK on ebay.
2) The bushings for one particular pen kit showed was not snug on the mandrel shaft and showed significant play. This was fixed by wrapping the shaft with a single small layer of paper and sliding the bushing over it. The result was that the bushing was snug and there was no noticeable play.

Since you say that this does not happen on all pens, I would suspect that case 2 above may apply in your case. If there is any play in your bushings then you will get an out-of-round condition.

Paul in AR


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## johnson (May 18, 2006)

I would guess the crapola is very close to the right answer. The wear seems to indicate that the mandrel is spinning a lot faster than the tailstock. There should not be wear like that. Take a look at the One-Way live center. Worth every penny. Also, if you have access to a dial indicator with a magnetic base, you can spin the mandrel and see how many thousands you are out of flat. They don't cost a whole lot. If you are gripping your mandrel in a collet chuck, you can put most of the shaft into the headstock and only leave out enough to turn one pen half at a time. Jacobs chucks to hold a mandrel are well known to not work. Good luck.


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## woodbutcher (May 18, 2006)

Buy a Oneway live center and blunt the nose. You can order extra 60 deg tips. If that don't fix it take Einstein' advice.[]
Jim


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## wpenm (May 18, 2006)

Pipes, Try http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1189. They also have a MT1.
The Sears live center is for wood and is rated for a short number of hours. You need a live center for metal with the 60 deg. tip. This should take care of the wear problem.


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## Dario (May 18, 2006)

My question about ring lines on the taper is leading towards a reamer.  I had a similar problem a few months back and the MT reamer really helped a lot.  

Check this threads if it sounds like it applies to you.

http://www.penturners.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12120

http://www.penturners.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12099


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## Pipes (May 18, 2006)

> _Originally posted by johnson_
> <br />I would guess the crapola is very close to the right answer. The wear seems to indicate that the mandrel is spinning a lot faster than the tailstock. There should not be wear like that. Take a look at the One-Way live center. Worth every penny. Also, if you have access to a dial indicator with a magnetic base, you can spin the mandrel and see how many thousands you are out of flat. They don't cost a whole lot. If you are gripping your mandrel in a collet chuck, you can put most of the shaft into the headstock and only leave out enough to turn one pen half at a time. Jacobs chucks to hold a mandrel are well known to not work. Good luck.


Iam using a woodcraft adjustable mandrel on a #2 MT ...I think I may be wrong that by the looks a the live ceter its my problem ...what do you guys think !!!


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## Rifleman1776 (May 18, 2006)

My live center wears exactly the same way as yours. I have just accepted that this is normal with a pen turning mandrel. Maybe one day I'll buy another live center just for the pen mandrel.


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## Pipes (May 18, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Rifleman_
> <br />My live center wears exactly the same way as yours. I have just accepted that this is normal with a pen turning mandrel. Maybe one day I'll buy another live center just for the pen mandrel.



Is this a good thing or bad ?? Does it need to be replaced when it gets wore ;like this !!!![?]I have 3 live centers here now so I can change and see if it fixes the problem !! I really don't wana screw up more live centers like this !! But I am gona change it today and see what happens !! I ordered a oneway kit and one from the little machine shop !! The little machine shop has one that is pose to be a LOT harder steel for 23 bucks so what the hell I tossed this much at it just to see !!let you guys know when I know []





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## Randy_ (May 18, 2006)

Guy:  Call the little machine shop and change your order right away.  You bought the wrong center!!  You ordered the heavy duty model and it won't work.....too big and heavy to be driven by the little pen mandrel.  This has been reported a number of times in the various pen forums.  What you want is the standard duty center (Part number 1189) for $12.95.  This is what everybody buys...I have one...and it works beautifully!!!


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## Pipes (May 18, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Randy__
> <br />Guy:  Call the little machine shop and change your order right away.  You bought the wrong center!!  You ordered the heavy duty model and it won't work.....too big and heavy to be driven by the little pen mandrel.  This has been reported a number of times in the various pen forums.  What you want is the standard duty center (Part number 1189) for $12.95.  This is what everybody buys...I have one...and it works beautifully!!!



Well I guess it gets a round trip I saw this to late and they have shipped it :O/ what about the one that comes ON the HF little metal lathe is that the one IF so I got one here ??? I had them second day it :O/ O well SPIT happens LL 

I seem to a solved my problem anyway I THINK I turned 3 perfect pens today and NO problems just had to adjust the live ceter or rather the tail stock till I got the right sound !! That seems to work !! I also changed mandrels and used another live ceter I HAD here !! one a those things was and is the problem Because it fixed it !!! 

O well so this heavy duty one will NOT work at all on a pen mandrel ??? Anyone know WHY ???[]



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## Randy_ (May 18, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Pipes_
> <br />.....O well so this heavy duty one will NOT work at all on a pen mandrel ??? Anyone know WHY.....



This is the theory....don't know if it is true or not; but it sounds good.

The HD center is designed to be used with heavy metal stock on engine lathes and has multiple bearings packed full of thick grease and just has too much spinning resistance to be driven by the small contact area between it and the end of a pen mandrel.  

I found that even the 1189 was very stiff to turn when I first got it.  I had to run it on my lathe for about 15 minutes with more tailstock pressure than I would normally use for turning pens.  I even gave mine a shot of WD-40 to loosen up the new grease a little.  If I had to break in a new one again, I would probably warm it up first with a hairdryer to soften up the grease a little and I would be especially careful if you are using it in an unheated shop that is very cool.


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## knottyharry (May 19, 2006)

Hi Guy,
I would definitely get a new live center....not a heavy duty one.
With the end of yours worn like it is, it will let the end of the mandrel wander some.
Try a little more pressure, and when you get the new live center, slide your mandrel in where you can put the blank that is out of round on it by itself....and see if you can straighten up the blank.
Harry


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## Pipes (May 19, 2006)

I got a couple extra live ceters here and used one yestrday ! and seem to a got things under control that a new rod on my madrel and I changed the bushings on the Baron I was making and cigar pens and well one a the things fixed it I HOPE !!!So I guess I will send the heavy duty one back for and exchange .....





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## redfishsc (May 19, 2006)

I goofed and bought the heavy duty one as well. A drop of CA glue and some accelerator just prior to pushing the mandrel to the center does the trick. You have to put some time onto that center for it to loosen up a bit. You can soak it in mineral spirits to clean out any heavy grease they put in it but note you'll need to shoot some LPS or WD40 in it once in a while, or else the life will be shortened.


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