# Question re Wenge



## shastastan (Jul 16, 2014)

I've had a big block of Wenge sitting on the shelf for some years.  I decided to make 10 pen blanks with a cut from it.  Everything went fine until I started turning the first pen.  I've noticed that the grain seems similar to red oak which I don't turn at all.  I'm using sharp carbide tools and have to be very careful not to take too much of a bite.  I'm only on my first pen, but sometimes pieces will splinter off.  I keep backing the tool off and try to be very easy on the cut and just produce saw dust.  I don't think that I've ever turned Wenge before so I guess my question is....Did I let the block sit around too long or is the splintering just a characteristic of this wood.  Thanks for any comments.


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## Ed McDonnell (Jul 16, 2014)

Wenge seems to give a lot of people problems.  I would suggest using a HSS gouge and a shear cut.  It's worked well for me.  If you aren't familiar with using a gouge (or skew) to shear cut, you can find a lot of videos on youtube explaining it.

Ed


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## plantman (Jul 16, 2014)

I find when I turn any of the hard brittle woods like Wenge, Cocobolo, Bocote, etc. that it helps to put a coat of thin CA over the blank every couple of cuts. You might also want to knock  the edges down with a belt or disk sander.   Jim  S


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## WalkOn (Jul 16, 2014)

Sorry, I can't really answer your question, but I would suggest that you stay clear of any dust you produce, kinda of nasty stuff.  I was turning a blank and had my respirator and face shield on and still manage to get some in my eyes.  So, the next time I'll be sure to have a fan running behind me.  Hope that helps.


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## Dan Masshardt (Jul 16, 2014)

Skew chisel should help quite a bit.


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## ed4copies (Jul 16, 2014)

Wenge is dusty.  Honestly, I have not turned it often, because I really don't think the pens were worth the effort.  A sharp skew WILL work, but yes, if the wood is very dry, it can come off in chunks.

Knowing what I know now, I might douse it with thin CA before starting to turn, then from time to time WHILE turning.  Definitely have a small fan blowing air from behind you, over your shoulder and onto the lathe---push the dust away from you.

Wenge is similar to bog oak in look and texture---if you're going to go to the effort to make a pen, bog oak is much more of a "story" and will sell for a higher price.

FWIW,
Ed


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## shastastan (Jul 17, 2014)

Many thanks for all the comments.  I turned a concava today and finished it with the PSI gloss.  There is just too much open grain and a small piece was missing on one end that I had not noticed.  I have already glued up all of the tubes, but I'm dumping everything and starting over.  This wood is just not stable enough to use for pens.    I just ordered replacement tubes for 9 kits.  Not sure yet which wood that I'll use, but I have enough of a variety that it won't be a problem.  Someone mentioned bocote and cocobolo, but I haven had a problem with either of those......yet. 

I guess it's live and learn.  I've had some different hardwoods on the shelf for 10 years  or so.  I had a break in my woodworking for 7 years.  No problem with some of the old wood either.  I do intarsia and make stuff other than pens so the wood won't go to waste.  I just make pens as gifts for friends and don't do commercial.  I really appreciate this forum with the great advice to be had here.


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## Dan Masshardt (Jul 17, 2014)

So did you try any alternate methods as suggested?  

I can try to turn a couple for you if you want to send them.


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## nativewooder (Jul 17, 2014)

Wenge is very open grained and definitely tends to splinter. Using HSS gouges and a shear cut will make carbide bits seem like a waste.  Purpleheart has a lot of the same tendencies as wenge.  Good Luck!


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## plantman (Jul 17, 2014)

shastastan said:


> Many thanks for all the comments.  I turned a concava today and finished it with the PSI gloss.  There is just too much open grain and a small piece was missing on one end that I had not noticed.  I have already glued up all of the tubes, but I'm dumping everything and starting over.  This wood is just not stable enough to use for pens.    I just ordered replacement tubes for 9 kits.  Not sure yet which wood that I'll use, but I have enough of a variety that it won't be a problem.  Someone mentioned bocote and cocobolo, but I haven had a problem with either of those......yet.
> 
> I guess it's live and learn.  I've had some different hardwoods on the shelf for 10 years  or so.  I had a break in my woodworking for 7 years.  No problem with some of the old wood either.  I do intarsia and make stuff other than pens so the wood won't go to waste.  I just make pens as gifts for friends and don't do commercial.  I really appreciate this forum with the great advice to be had here.



You could also try stabilizing the blanks under vacuum to strenghten the wood, remove any air, and fill any voids or cracks that may not be seen from the outside. I have found both Bocote and Cocobolo can have a tendency to chip off as you near the ends of the blanks with your tools if I don't slow down or ease up on the pressure.   Jim  S


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## Ted iin Michigan (Jul 17, 2014)

I'm hoping you come back and review these posts. Wenge can be a real PIA for the very reasons you note. However, when done, it can be a real showpiece pen. I think putting it on a Concava would be a real good choice, esp in a chrome style finish. Great contrasts. 

The open grain (like oak) is an issue. It needs filling. I use multiple coats of CA until the grain is full. Then sand smooth and build up a normal CA finish. 

I'd advise against the carbide. Carbide works great on stuff like Tru-Stone but in my experience it isn't as good for wood. As noted, use a real sharp skew and leave it a bit oversize. Then sand down to where you start finish application. Shouldn't take long.

Good luck - don't give up yet!


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## plantman (Jul 17, 2014)

Ted iin Michigan said:


> I'm hoping you come back and review these posts. Wenge can be a real PIA for the very reasons you note. However, when done, it can be a real showpiece pen. I think putting it on a Concava would be a real good choice, esp in a chrome style finish. Great contrasts.
> 
> The open grain (like oak) is an issue. It needs filling. I use multiple coats of CA until the grain is full. Then sand smooth and build up a normal CA finish.
> 
> ...



I would agree on the not using carbide. You can put a much keener edge on HSS than you can on carbibe because of the molecular difference in the two.   Jim  S


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## plantman (Jul 17, 2014)

Disreguard this blank space !! Fat fingers.    Jim  S


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## Dale Lynch (Jul 17, 2014)

shastastan said:


> Many thanks for all the comments.  I turned a concava today and finished it with the PSI gloss.  There is just too much open grain and a small piece was missing on one end that I had not noticed.  I have already glued up all of the tubes, but I'm dumping everything and starting over.  This wood is just not stable enough to use for pens.    I just ordered replacement tubes for 9 kits.  Not sure yet which wood that I'll use, but I have enough of a variety that it won't be a problem.  Someone mentioned bocote and cocobolo, but I haven had a problem with either of those......yet.
> 
> I guess it's live and learn.  I've had some different hardwoods on the shelf for 10 years  or so.  I had a break in my woodworking for 7 years.  No problem with some of the old wood either.  I do intarsia and make stuff other than pens so the wood won't go to waste.  I just make pens as gifts for friends and don't do commercial.  I really appreciate this forum with the great advice to be had here.



Wenge is plenty stable enough,and well worth the effort.Dont give up on it yet.http://www.penturners.org/forum/att...wenge-zebrawood-segmented-spiral-dscn0585.jpg


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## mmayo (Jul 18, 2014)

I have turned several items in wenge including the pen shown below and razors; it seems to turn well. Perhaps the grain direction was wrong.


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## shastastan (Jul 18, 2014)

Thanks again for all the comments.  I agree that wenge can be very beautiful.  I think that I turned a wenge pen some years ago.  It was from a blank that I bought in one of those grab bag sales.  I just think that the particular  piece that I have just isn't suitable for turning pens.  

I have never used CA glue for a finish or filling.  I've almost glued my fingers together before so it's probably best, being the klutz that I am, if I stay away from it except for gluing tubes in.

I have a couple of skews.  One is big and the other is either 1/2" or 5/8ths.  I'm not proficient with either of them even though I've practiced some.  I am really good at getting catches with them though.  I do use gouges and I do like the control that I have with my carbide tools.  Even watching videos, I'm not sure that I have the finesse and patience to learn to be adept with a skew.

Someone mentioned purple heart being similar to wenge, I have not had the same experience with purple heart.  A friend gave me a warped piece so I'm cutting it up into pen blanks.  No problems in turning it even though the wood is old and tough.  I learned the hard way that wood does not always remain stable even though it may be years old.  I had a nice redwood 2x12 split apart along a grain line just by picking it up. I glued it back together and was able to use it anyway.

Again, thanks for the comments.  You did answer my question about wenge.


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## shastastan (Jul 19, 2014)

mmayo said:


> I have turned several items in wenge including the pen shown below and razors; it seems to turn well. Perhaps the grain direction was wrong.



Thanks for the pic.  The grain on mine is similar to yours but I have a few large gaps (pockets?).  The open grain has white spots probably from the finish that I used which apparently was not a good one to use for my pen.  I kept all of the blanks with tubes and I may try some other finish.  I might even try the ca, but I'm wondering if the "fills" would be white with it also?


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## carlmorrell (Jul 19, 2014)

I respectfully disagree with anyone that does not think wenge is not worthy of making a pen with.  Sorry you are having issues turning.


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## Ted iin Michigan (Jul 19, 2014)

Carl not to hijack this thread but that's a totally cool and different Wenge! Haven't seen one with the alternating dark/light grain like that.


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## carlmorrell (Jul 20, 2014)

Ted iin Michigan said:


> Carl not to hijack this thread but that's a totally cool and different Wenge! Haven't seen one with the alternating dark/light grain like that.



Sorry too for thread-hijacking.  It was an experiment with wood bleach.


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## randyrls (Jul 20, 2014)

shastastan said:


> I have a couple of skews.  One is big and the other is either 1/2" or 5/8ths.  I'm not proficient with either of them even though I've practiced some.  I am really good at getting catches with them though.  I do use gouges and I do like the control that I have with my carbide tools.  Even watching videos, I'm not sure that I have the finesse and patience to learn to be adept with a skew.



Stanley;  The skew is a bear when sharpened on the grinder as it gives the tool a "hollow grind".  The skew works best with a flat grind or concave grind.
Take a look at this video


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## shastastan (Jul 21, 2014)

My replacement tubes will be here tonight.  I've ordered another piece of Wenge with a moisture content of 12%.  This is a great place to get turning wood, but it usually has a lot more moisture content.  I've bought some and just have it sitting on the shelf for awhile.  Gary does have everything waxed, too.  When I get everything, I'll try some more wenge pens.  Here's the url:

1641http:///www.ncwood.biz/Wenge-8-x-8-x-3-1641.htm.htm


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## shastastan (Jul 21, 2014)

randyrls said:


> shastastan said:
> 
> 
> > Stanley;  The skew is a bear when sharpened on the grinder as it gives the tool a "hollow grind".  The skew works best with a flat grind or concave grind.
> ...


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## kovalcik (Jul 21, 2014)

If you are not comfortable with the skew, try a sharp roughing gouge.  Rub the bevel and lift the handle just until it starts to cut.  Keep supporting the cut by rubbing the bevel and that should eliminate most if not all of the chipping you are getting.  

 A good way to fill the pores is sand to 320, then wet sand with 320 and BLO.  The slurry will fill the grain nicely and give a nice smooth finish that you can put CA or a friction polish over.


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## shastastan (Jul 21, 2014)

kovalcik said:


> If you are not comfortable with the skew, try a sharp roughing gouge.  Rub the bevel and lift the handle just until it starts to cut.  Keep supporting the cut by rubbing the bevel and that should eliminate most if not all of the chipping you are getting.
> 
> A good way to fill the pores is sand to 320, then wet sand with 320 and BLO.  The slurry will fill the grain nicely and give a nice smooth finish that you can put CA or a friction polish over.



Thanks for the pores tip.  I was wondering if shellac would be good, but also am concerned about the pores showing like white spots. Today I turned a walnut concava with no problems.  Since I already have the old wenge blanks  with tubes, maybe I'll just use those to practice the skew with.  I used a 1" and 3/8" roughing gouges on the walnut today.  They seemed easier to use to bring the blanks into round than the square carbide tools.  It seems to be like there's quite a variation between the various types of wood that affect which tools might work better than others--at least for me.


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## shastastan (Jul 23, 2014)

kovalcik said:


> A good way to fill the pores is sand to 320, then wet sand with 320 and BLO.  The slurry will fill the grain nicely and give a nice smooth finish that you can put CA or a friction polish over.



I just ordered a pint of BLO.  I figured that would last me a long time and I couldn't see a need for a gallon size.  I read a bunch of stuff about BLO.  I'm assuming that it should be used very sparingly while I'm following your suggestion.  Some people have had problems with the stuff oozing out for a period of time because they used too much.  It appears that BLO and CA are good chemically to combine.


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## kovalcik (Jul 23, 2014)

Correct, you only need a few drops.  You can always add a little more if it gets too dry.  After sanding with BLO, I turn the speed up and wipe the blank down with a paper towel.  That takes up any extra oil and creates a bit of heat to help polymerize the BLO.  Since you only have BLO and sawdust from the wood, there will be no white spots.  Be careful to spread the sandpaper and towels out and let them dry thouroughly before throwing them out.  You are only using a few drops, so chance of fire is small, but still better to play it safe.  After the wet sanding, I continue with 400 and  600 grit dry.


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## shastastan (Jul 23, 2014)

kovalcik said:


> Correct, you only need a few drops.  You can always add a little more if it gets too dry.  After sanding with BLO, I turn the speed up and wipe the blank down with a paper towel.  That takes up any extra oil and creates a bit of heat to help polymerize the BLO.  Since you only have BLO and sawdust from the wood, there will be no white spots.  Be careful to spread the sandpaper and towels out and let them dry thouroughly before throwing them out.  You are only using a few drops, so chance of fire is small, but still better to play it safe.  After the wet sanding, I continue with 400 and  600 grit dry.



I always go through 1200 grit.  I assume that you add finish and sand between coats after the BLO?


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## kovalcik (Jul 23, 2014)

I sand the wood to 600.  Only use BLO with the 320.  Then I usually do my CA finish.  No sanding between coats unless something goes wrong.  I usually use 10-15 thin coats of med CA.  No accelerator.  Then, after letting it sit overnight, I wet sand with the 9 micromesh pads and water to polish it up.


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## shastastan (Jul 24, 2014)

kovalcik said:


> I sand the wood to 600.  Only use BLO with the 320.  Then I usually do my CA finish.  No sanding between coats unless something goes wrong.  I usually use 10-15 thin coats of med CA.  No accelerator.  Then, after letting it sit overnight, I wet sand with the 9 micromesh pads and water to polish it up.



Thanks very much  for those tips.  I guess I'm going to have to learn more about CA finishing even though I'm leery of it.  I certainly don't like the fumes, but I've been using the PSI CA glue (pink tip bottle) for gluing and the fumes don't seem as strong as the older stuff I was using.  I haven't used the micromesh either so that will be something else to check out.


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## kovalcik (Jul 24, 2014)

You could always use Mylands or the Pens plus finish if that is what you like.  They will both work fine over BLO.  General's Wood Turners Finish is another a lot of people here use.  Don't mean to dissuade you from trying CA. I have had good luck with CA and like the results so that is what I use, but there are several options.


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## shastastan (Jul 25, 2014)

kovalcik said:


> You could always use Mylands or the Pens plus finish if that is what you like.  They will both work fine over BLO.  General's Wood Turners Finish is another a lot of people here use.  Don't mean to dissuade you from trying CA. I have had good luck with CA and like the results so that is what I use, but there are several options.



Many thanks. I have some of those finishes that you suggest that I'll try.  It's always good to know which ones are compatible.

I visited your Facebook page yesterday and left a couple of comments on your excellent work.  It's really nice of you and other turners to help out your local food bank, too.


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## shastastan (Aug 6, 2014)

I think that it was Dan who asked if I had tried any of the suggestions.  Well, I have now.  Although my skew is too long for pens, I was able to learn to use it with some success thanks to Capt. Eddie's video.  I tried the BLO and I think that it helped some.  I used PSI gloss lacquer finish but didn't like the results so I sanded it off some with 800 grit and finally finished with WTF.  I'm still not happy with the results though due to the open grain.  Here's a pic.



I just bought another block of wenge which I'm going to try.  I'm hoping that it does not have the open grain.  I think that's my main problem.  I'll be learning if it is pretty soon.    I really appreciate all the help and suggestions from you guys.  This has been a good learning experience for me.  THANKS!


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## shastastan (Sep 1, 2014)

Okay, this is my final post on wenge.  The pen I just finished is a lot better, but still has a couple of small voids.  I don't sell my stuff and I'm sure a friend or relative will be happy to have this pen. I like the finish despite the small splintered out spots.

I decided to try WTF for the finish this time.  I added a little BLO when I got to 600 grit.  I let it sit over night and then hit it with 800 grit going through 1200 grit.  I then followed Ed's wtf  youtube, appllied 4 coats, hit it with 600 grit very lightly, and then another 4 coats.  Finally used 1000 and 1200 grits and one final coat of WTF.  I let it sit over night.

I liked Ed's idea of stick holder to use for buffing so I turned one out of an old piece of red oak.  It was good for me to practice the skew since this oak was really splintery.  Oh yeah, I used the skew on the pen, too.  However, my buffing wheel is on my grinder which is 3600 rpms which, for me, was too fast.  I'm going to look into something else, maybe the Beall system?

In summary and with grateful thanks to the help and suggestions from you nice folks here, I learned about using a skew on wenge, using BLO during the sanding process, and buffing which I still have never done.  I'm done with wenge for awhile for pens, but this has been a valuable learning experience for me.  THANKS!


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