# Some people just clique



## ed4copies (Oct 23, 2008)

How about some sunshine on this topic?

"The IAP is just a bunch of guys in cliques!"

I've seen this line in many forms in the past couple years here and, I believe there is truth to it!   HORRORS!!!!!!

So, as a member of a couple of these "cliques", let me give you a little insight as to how YOU CAN join one - IF you want.

When you see a member make a posting that causes you to react - favorably or unfavorably - send them a private message.  Nearly always, they will respond.  You have now formed the nucleus of a "clique".  Two people, corresponding on some topic.  

Before you know it, you have developed a friendship.  Should some OTHER person e-mail you about a thread, invite them to join your "e-mail circle".  You will gain MORE friends.  

Then, on the forum, you will exchange comments that include "double meanings" that you and the others in your "clique" will understand.

You will gain further "cliquishness" if you attend the local chapter meeting.  This past weekend, I gained another "clique" membership - but a couple of those people were already in another one of my "cliques", so I don't know if they count.

So, what is the purpose of this post?  A "clique" is simply a circle of friends.  Friends are people you get to know, at least you FEEL you know them.  So, go forth and prosper.  FIND FRIENDS in the IAP.  When you share an opinion with someone else on a thread, send him an e-mail expressing your complete support of his opinion.  When a pen "tickles your fancy", send a Private Message to the maker - you have no idea how far this goes in gaining FRIENDS!!!

I can even send CRITICAL comments to SOME on this forum.  I save those for Private Messages, usually.  We discuss my opinion and we, usually, remain friends - in fact BETTER friends.

To conclude!  Don't feel you are NOT a member because you don't get the "inside jokes".  Instead, send a few comments to other members.  START a friendship.  Once it is healthy, you may be able to jab, duck and jest like Cav (he was "William" until I got to know him) and I.  

Meanwhile, if you want to be in one of my e-mail circles (clique, if you wish), just write me a PM - I'm sure you'll fit in.

FWIW


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## wood-of-1kind (Oct 23, 2008)

Ed,

isn't a "clique" a device that goes on our pen barrels? I'm so naive.


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## ed4copies (Oct 23, 2008)

Peter,

Those are "clicks" and they rarely work.


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## Mudder (Oct 23, 2008)

So Ed,

Are you inviting me to your "circle of trust"? ( a reference from the movie "meet the parents")


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## DSallee (Oct 23, 2008)

Boy this could get DANGEROUSLY interesting! 

Hmmm..... can a person have too many "cliques"???

ya know.. like when I was younger anyway... I had WAY too many girlfriends and got names confused!! .. AND I really don't want that again.... 

Oh yea, there was a post about putting "names" in sigs/profiles.. DUH!! :bulgy-eyes:

Dave


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## DozerMite (Oct 23, 2008)

So now, if you want to be part of the "IAP family" or your "friend, a person has to send PM's and emails. So tell me again the point of the forum... is it just a dating place? I find it much easier to post on the forum rather than emailing several people then getting a response and emailing each person again to answer their specific questions and then... well you get the point.
So in other words, if a person wants to be part of the "IAP family", they have to take it to a one on one scenerio? Kind of limits your family doesn't it? So now it's not the "IAP family" it's "Ed's family" (or whoever's name fits).
Again, tell me the point of the forum.

Is this what happens when there are 200 views and 3 replies, it has been taken to PM's and email? Defeats the purpose of a forum doesn't it?
I've seen a lot of changes here just in the short time I've been around and not all for the better.


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## rjwolfe3 (Oct 23, 2008)

WOW


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## ed4copies (Oct 23, 2008)

Well, Dozer, I welcome YOUR input.  And your opinion carries weight.

The point of the forum is to exchange ideas.  As I type this, I try to be very sensitive to YOUR reaction.  IF I were replying to Cav or Lou, I would be far LESS careful.  I feel like I can anticipate THEIR reactions, since we have had this discussion before and I BELIEVE I know where they stand on the issue.

When you participate in the forum, I believe all members will TRY to give you a good answer.  But, if we have no insight as to who you are, we MAY step on your toes.  Not what we intended, but stuff happens.

So, I guess you will get OUT of the IAP at least as much as you PUT INTO the IAP.  IF you prefer to stay anonymous and just read what's posted, there is an "open line" here to do that.

IF you spend the time to actually get to KNOW some of us (the chapters are a great way to start), you MAY find a whole new DEPTH of membership.

Either way, you are welcome.


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## leehljp (Oct 23, 2008)

One aspect of good friends is the fact that they can disagree (and sometimes 180°) and still be friends. In the old days we called that "character" - with a totally different meaning than it does today.

Good friends expect disagreement - and know that disagreement is a part of the nature of being friends. That is the kind of clique that I like!


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## Mudder (Oct 23, 2008)

I still don't know if I'm in the "circle of trust"


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## ed4copies (Oct 23, 2008)

*We have travelled this path!*

Since Mudder and I communicate frequently, off the forum, I can tell him very nicely.

 YOU KNOW I DON'T WATCH MOVIES, SO I HAVE NO IDEA TO WHAT YOU ALLUDE!!!


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## DocStram (Oct 23, 2008)

So if we disagree that we can agree to disagree .... does that mean we've agreed????


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## Daniel (Oct 23, 2008)

Good idea, lets start a Movie clique!!! I nominate Ed as president.


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## wdcav1952 (Oct 23, 2008)

Daniel said:


> Good idea, lets start a Movie clique!!! I nominate Ed as president.




Not fair, Ed is already President of the Bull S**t clique!!!!!!!:biggrin::biggrin:


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## wood-of-1kind (Oct 23, 2008)

Daniel said:


> Good idea, lets start a Movie clique!!! I nominate Ed as president.



Please let's not, Ed's rather LARGE 
ego may inflate to even more GIGANTIC proportions. Just "cliquing" with yah ED:wink:


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## ragz (Oct 23, 2008)

Ed
It's from the movie "Meet the Parents" 

I don't think this site is very cliquey or too heavy on the bromance depts.
I can see where some might think it is. But like Ed alluded to you get out what you put in.

So I updated my profile, I've bought some products from other members and if I ever get enough time to post some work that stays around long enough to get a photo I'll post some more. I've had all my questions answered except one. If there is ever a group meeting near Memphis I plan to attend. 

This is a great resource and inspiration site. Without some of the more voicerous members it stalls out.

Oh and I think Ed is up to at least 10 useful posts for those keeping count...(sorry couldn't help it )


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## DocStram (Oct 23, 2008)

On a serious note, and with all due respect to my good friends Ed, Dozer and all others posting in IAP . . .   I sincerely feel that I can function quite well in IAP without being a member of a clique.  Actually, I prefer to remain cliqueless.  Frankly, I had no idea that there are cliques in IAP nor did I know that there are little groups of people emailing each other in private.  That's fine if you like doing that.  Me? I'm just sort of more comfortable out here on the big board where I can pretty much talk out in the open where everybody can see me saying whatever it is I have to say.

This is not to say that I don't occasionally pm other members or email them.  I don't do it on a regular basis because I just feel more comfortable belonging to a large group. 

To each his own.  I am not interested in judging others nor would I want them to judge me.  It's just "how I do business", so to speak.   

On the other hand, if anyone is feeling disenfranchised because they do not belong to one of these so-called "cliques"  (and, I have no idea how many "cliques" there are), I invite you to join with me in my "cliqueless clique".  Here's how it works .... just pm me saying that you would like to join DocStram's Cliqueless Clique.  That's all there is to it!  Just join up and that's pretty much it!  No further private emails are required nor do I expect you to pm me.  You'll just have the satisfaction of knowing that you belong to the DocStram Cliqueless Clique. Life couldn't be more simple!


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## pianomanpj (Oct 23, 2008)

Ed, I'm really glad that you posted this topic. 

I've been a member of the IAP for a little over a year, and have read and absorbed as much as I can at any one time. Although I come here daily (usually many times a day), I haven't posted nearly as often as I could. Just look at my post count. My stats tell me that I post 0.23 times a day! How does THAT happen?

But while I've been here, I've gotten to know some of the most frequent poster's personalities by what and how they post. Matter of fact, I look forward to reading their posts. Ed, Doc, Cav, Lou, Skippy... the list goes on.

The down side, however, is that although I've seen how these fellows intereact with each other for months now, I can't just jump in. Why? Remember my post count? They DON'T know who I am!

So, would I like to be in more cliques? You bet! And who's responsibility is it to make that happen? MINE!!

Oh, look! My post count went up by one! Joy!!:biggrin:


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## wdcav1952 (Oct 23, 2008)

Roger, post a photo of the scenery in Maine.  I have always wanted to visit there and haven't made it yet.  Then you can be in my Corny Clique.

Trust me, it is better that the Clueless Clique Al Stram is offering!!!


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## wdcav1952 (Oct 23, 2008)

Mudder said:


> I still don't know if I'm in the "circle of trust"





Some people just can't take a hint!! :wink::biggrin::wink:


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## chriselle (Oct 23, 2008)

Well, about the only time I feel it necessary to send PM's is if talk in a thread strays too far off topic to the point of becoming rude to the OP. 

 As for friendships and "circle of friends" (I can't bring myself to use the word..clique) I think posting on the forum and sending PM's can't come close to actual events or "get togethers".  That's where the benefit of having local chapters comes in.  I guess Hank and I could have our own chapter here in Japan...lol.  

Also, I prefer keeping most of the conversation on the forum because frankly I like to see the pace of the forum moving along.  Sometimes the number of new posts gets a little slow. 

I do enjoy this forum immensely.

Chris


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## alphageek (Oct 23, 2008)

Wow... I think there is some pretty good points on all sides (so how many cliques does that get me into?)

What I find is interesting is that the people that think that IAP is too clique are putting that in the negative.

I think its another side of IAP and a positive.   I think thats what Ed has pointed out what I think is what makes IAP so different than many of these type of sites.    How many other web boards do you see that are as likely to start REAL in-person friendships.   If a group of friends is a 'clique' - I think thats a good thing.   The problem is when cliques get to the point of being elitist.   Inside jokes are expected, some people liking others more is expected, but cliques looking down on others is bad.

The word clique is usually associated with negative connotations - I see pretty small amounts of that here, compared to the positives.   There is soooooo much more positive effect here.

The fact that people are willing to share SO much of their experiences, talent, and PRODUCTS knowing that those ideas could be used as competition (yes, MANY of the best things shown here are for sale) is a huge thing.

I've come along way in just over a year.   I look forward to growing more in this hobby and this site is my #1 way to learn.   Funny thing - those 'inside comments or jokes' are often one way that I learn... 

Ok.. I've babbled enough.


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## Mudder (Oct 23, 2008)

DocStram said:


> So if we disagree that we can agree to disagree .... does that mean we've agreed????




We all know that two wrongs don't make a right but three rights make a left 

Yep William, the meds are working well tonight


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## DSallee (Oct 23, 2008)

alphageek said:


> .....Ok.. I've babbled enough.




So, does this mean you are starting a "babbling clique?"  LOL

Dave


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## chriselle (Oct 23, 2008)

DSallee said:


> So, does this mean you are starting a "babbling clique?"  LOL
> 
> Dave



Hey, we're adults here.  It's a "waffling clique"...:biggrin:


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## thewishman (Oct 23, 2008)

Mudder said:


> I still don't know if I'm in the "circle of trust"




OK, Scott. So you bug Ed for *months* about his ONE FREE PEN PER CUSTOMER  and THEN want to be in his "circle of trust?" I don't know man...  

By the way, did you ever post a picture of the pen he sent you? Just curious, wondering if I should try the same thing.:wink:


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## wdcav1952 (Oct 23, 2008)

chriselle said:


> Hey, we're adults here.  It's a "waffling clique"...:biggrin:



Great, I love Belgian waffles! :good:


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## Mudder (Oct 23, 2008)

thewishman said:


> OK, Scott. So you bug Ed for *months* about his ONE FREE PEN PER CUSTOMER  and THEN want to be in his "circle of trust?" I don't know man...
> 
> By the way, did you ever post a picture of the pen he sent you? Just curious, wondering if I should try the same thing.:wink:



I believe that I did, but here it is again in case you missed it. It writes very well to :biggrin:


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## DSallee (Oct 23, 2008)

Mudder said:


> I believe that I did, but here it is again in case you missed it. It writes very well to :biggrin:



Cool pen there Scott... you got a kit # for that? I wanna try to make one...

Dave


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## OKLAHOMAN (Oct 23, 2008)

Clique! clique! I don't need no stinking clique.

Did the guys that I e-mail every day get the last one?​


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## pianomanpj (Oct 24, 2008)

Cav,
Ask, and you shall receive...

Attached is a photo of Route 201 through Moscow, Maine. I drive this stretch of road every time I go visit my dad in Canada.

On the left is the Kennebec River. About sixty miles down river is my hometown. Augusta is on both sides of the river, and I live no more than 100 yards from its eastside bank.



wdcav1952 said:


> Roger, post a photo of the scenery in Maine. I have always wanted to visit there and haven't made it yet. Then you can be in my Corny Clique.
> 
> Trust me, it is better that the Clueless Clique Al Stram is offering!!!


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## nava1uni (Oct 24, 2008)

Trust in the circle.  Circle of trust.  Who knows what either is.  I just know that whether it is on the forum or in a PM anyone can be part of the IAP family.  I know that I often discuss things that I don't understand via PM because I feel that they have been posted a lot on the threads and my questions are redundant.   It never ceases to amaze me the many ways that people interpret things that people say, often interjecting their own sense of dismay or sarcasm.
  In reading Ed's comments I never got the message that one could only be a part if they developed their own clique or communicated via PM.  
  Sometimes I just want to write a post that says, "Take a breath, let it out and then take a break and relax."


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## LEAP (Oct 24, 2008)

Pianomanpj,
I recognize that view, I drive 201 on a regular basis on my way to Quebec. This year it has been spectacular! OOPS, guess that starts a leef peeper clique.


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## IPD_Mrs (Oct 24, 2008)

DocStram said:


> On a serious note, and with all due respect to my good friends Ed, Dozer and all others posting in IAP . . .


 
Someone down in GA help Doc out, he is off his meds again.  I just went and looked at Dozers profile and it said "_DozerMite has not made any friends yet_".  This may be very similar to when Doc was a little boy and had imaginary friends.  But now he is putting faces with those friends, well at least pictures of dogs.

On second thought if someone could sneak up on Doc with one of those white jackets with all the little buckles, it might be a good thing.


Mike


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## DocStram (Oct 24, 2008)

*The Out of the Closet Cliques*

Very interesting!  The secret cliques are finally coming out of the closet.  How revealing!  Upon carefully scrutinizing the posts in this thread, I have identified the following cliques:

Ed's "Sunshine Clique"
Peter's "Pen Barrel Clique"
Mudder's "Meet the Parents Clique"
DSallee's "Too Many Girlfriends' Clique"
DozerMite's "Beagle Clique"
Hank's "180 Degree Clique"
Daniel's "Movie Clique"
Ragz's "More 'Voicerous' Members Clique"
Roger's "0.23 Clique"
Chris' "Waffling Clique"
Alphageeks' "Babbling Clique"
Thewishman's "One Free Pen Clique"
Roy's "No Stinking Clique Clique"
Cindy's "Take a Breath Clique"
Phil's "Leaf Peeper Clique"

and my "Cliqueless Clique"

I guess that about sums them all up ..... oh yeah .. except for one last one.  

I almost forgot *Cav's "Georgia Beats LSU Clique"
* 
Go Dawgs!!!!


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## thewishman (Oct 24, 2008)

Mudder said:


> I believe that I did, but here it is again in case you missed it. It writes very well to :biggrin:



What can I say NPGJ! It looks like it could use a coat or two of Ren wax or TSW. Looks like the cap posts and I'm sure the nib was upgraded.

Long live Scott, founder of the OFPPC (One Free Pen Per Customer) Clique!


LEAP, that picture is gorgeous! You got room for my family to stay while we join the "leef peeper clique?"


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## Texatdurango (Oct 24, 2008)

MLKWoodWorking said:


> I just went and looked at Dozers profile and it said "_DozerMite has not made any friends yet_"....


Maybe that's why I'm not in any cliques either, according to the forum I have only three friends!

Actually, I don't understand the value of this feature but then again I never got on-board with the instant messaging thing in Windows either. 

Take a new member, who starts exploring his profile, updating this and that only to be told "*You have no friends yet*". Laugh and joke all you want but that's got to be a real comforting feeling to someone just joining the forum!


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## wdcav1952 (Oct 24, 2008)

pianomanpj said:


> Cav,
> Ask, and you shall receive...
> 
> Attached is a photo of Route 201 through Moscow, Maine. I drive this stretch of road every time I go visit my dad in Canada.
> ...




That is awesome!  I would never make it to the end of the road as I would just sit and stare at that view.

OK, the leaf peeper clique is now open for membership. *In My Opinion* :biggrin:


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## wdcav1952 (Oct 24, 2008)

DocStram said:


> Very interesting!  The secret cliques are finally coming out of the closet.  How revealing!  Upon carefully scrutinizing the posts in this thread, I have identified the following cliques:
> 
> Ed's "Sunshine Clique"
> Peter's "Pen Barrel Clique"
> ...



I should worry about some team that can't even spell dogs?????? :biggrin::biggrin:


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## dntrost (Oct 24, 2008)

So in reading this I gues what other say is true...We are a group with many Cliques.. I will add one more inexperienced pen turners just looking for advice and help.  I have got that here as well as some great deals on crap I didn't need (at least according to the LOML) :smile-big:  So those that want to join the pen turners looking for information and sharing their experiences clique 
I AM IN


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## gerryr (Oct 24, 2008)

Sign me up for the LEAF PEEPER'S clique! :laugh::good:


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## Blind_Squirrel (Oct 24, 2008)

alphageek said:


> The word clique is usually associated with negative connotations


 
(Emphish added by me)

clique
n.   A small *exclusive* group of friends or associates. 

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/clique


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## DocStram (Oct 24, 2008)

wdcav1952 said:


> I should worry about some team that can't even spell dogs?????? :biggrin::biggrin:




Ahem ..........  please let it be known that  "*Dawgs*" is Cajun for "Dogs".  

As in:

*Geaux Dawgs!!*

Take that ... you LSU fans!!

​


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## Mudder (Oct 24, 2008)

DocStram said:


> Very interesting!  The secret cliques are finally coming out of the closet.  How revealing!  Upon carefully scrutinizing the posts in this thread, I have identified the following cliques:
> 
> Ed's "Sunshine Clique"
> Peter's "Pen Barrel Clique"
> ...




If I want to create an anti-clique would I have to call it a clack?


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## DSallee (Oct 24, 2008)

Mudder said:


> If I want to create an anti-clique would I have to call it a clack?




LOL ... the "clique clack clique"


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## ed4copies (Oct 24, 2008)

*Dictionary problem*



Blind_Squirrel said:


> (Emphish added by me)
> 
> clique
> n.   A small *exclusive* group of friends or associates.
> ...



While I certainly don't doubt your resource, can I ask HOW a GROUP can be EXCLUSIVE.

If you INCLUDE no one, you are EXCLUSIVE,
You are also ALONE.  Thus, you are NOT a GROUP.

The FACT that you are a GROUP requires that you INCLUDE someone other than yourself.

I love this language, but even it's "definers" occasionally make impossible statements.


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## Blind_Squirrel (Oct 24, 2008)

ed4copies said:


> While I certainly don't doubt your resource, can I ask HOW a GROUP can be EXCLUSIVE.
> 
> If you INCLUDE no one, you are EXCLUSIVE,
> You are also ALONE. Thus, you are NOT a GROUP.
> ...


 
You have to use the correct form of the word to understand the meaning 


*ex⋅clu⋅sive* 
*–adjective *

10. admitting only members of a socially restricted or very carefully selected group: _an exclusive club. _

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/exclusive


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## mdburn_em (Oct 24, 2008)

ed4copies said:


> While I certainly don't doubt your resource, can I ask HOW a GROUP can be EXCLUSIVE.
> 
> If you INCLUDE no one, you are EXCLUSIVE,
> You are also ALONE.  Thus, you are NOT a GROUP.
> ...



OK, Ed.  Please further define how an individual can be exclusive, but a group cannot?  Exclusivity is not dependent on numbers, but rather on attitude.  Yes?

What people confuse as "cliques" on this site is merely a comfort level gained from familiarity.  Familiarity gained from reading countless babbling posts or familiarity gained from personal interaction.  

The IAP is simply a microcosm of society, albeit one of much higher intelligence.  Anyone who likes pens as much as I do, has to be brilliant, right?


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## marcruby (Oct 24, 2008)

ed4copies said:


> While I certainly don't doubt your resource, can I ask HOW a GROUP can be EXCLUSIVE.
> .



I was reading exclusive a bit differently, as in excluded, i.e., left out.  Just my natural bent towards irony, though.


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## ed4copies (Oct 24, 2008)

Of course, we are ALL correct, depending on how you allow "exclusive" to evolve in meaning.

The root word simply means to keep out, not allowing for ANY membership.  So, "exclusive" would not allow additional members.  The word has evolved to mean LIMITED membership.  We, at the IAP will now help it evolve to mean "accepting only other penmakers" - or, as stated above, "brilliant penmakers"- that includes ALL of us and excludes everybody else.

OK???????


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## Woodlvr (Oct 24, 2008)

Hey Gerry sign me up for the Leaf Peepers clique also. Is that picture from your back yard?
I hope that someone else wants to join.


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## ed4copies (Oct 24, 2008)

I think Gerry more appropriately falls in the "Brilliant pictures clique".  I can FEEL that water rushing over those rocks!!!


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## Blind_Squirrel (Oct 24, 2008)

ed4copies said:


> Of course, we are ALL correct, depending on how you allow "exclusive" to evolve in meaning.
> 
> The root word simply means to keep out, not allowing for ANY membership. So, "exclusive" would not allow additional members. The word has evolved to mean LIMITED membership. We, at the IAP will now help it evolve to mean "accepting only other penmakers" - or, as stated above, "brilliant penmakers"- that includes ALL of us and excludes everybody else.
> 
> OK???????


 
Ed, 

I didn't peg you as an extreemist back-and-white thinker.

I can't find the use of ANY, anywhere in the definition

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/exclude

(maybe if I keep referencing dictionary.com he will use it BEFORE he posts again :biggrin


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## wdcav1952 (Oct 24, 2008)

Blind_Squirrel said:


> (Emphish added by me)
> 
> clique
> n.   A small *exclusive* group of friends or associates.
> ...




Now I'm confused.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Emphish


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## gcurran (Oct 24, 2008)

*leaf view*

View from the "office" window.  Add me to the leaf peepers clique.

George
Currently in N GA


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## DSallee (Oct 24, 2008)

Hey, you know what would be better.... you see where Cav has "Activities Manage" below his user name? wouldn't be neat if we could have our "clique" listed there? That way we don't have to have a Clique list of who's in what clique... My Clique list is getting very confusing.... LOL


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## gerryr (Oct 24, 2008)

gcurran said:


> View from the "office" window.  Add me to the leaf peepers clique.
> 
> George
> Currently in N GA



That is just not fair.:frown:  All I have to look at out the "office" window are pine trees which are always the same boring green, except of course when they're on fire.

I wish the picture I posted was even close to my house.  It's the Swift River in the White Mountains of New Hampshire, about 2,300 miles from here.


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## airrat (Oct 24, 2008)

wait wait wait,

This is the post padding clique!!!!!!

Yeah one more and I reach 3 for the day !!!


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## ragz (Oct 24, 2008)

DocStram said:


> Very interesting! The secret cliques are finally coming out of the closet. How revealing! Upon carefully scrutinizing the posts in this thread, I have identified the following cliques:
> 
> Ed's "Sunshine Clique"
> Peter's "Pen Barrel Clique"
> ...


 
Then by being listed in the list of cliques and it thereby being listed as "mine", by the length of this thread I declare you all to be members of The Grand More Voicerous Members clique. Welcome one and all.


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## Mudder (Oct 24, 2008)

gerryr said:


> I wish the picture I posted was even close to my house.  It's the Swift River in the White Mountains of New Hampshire, about 2,300 miles from here.




I've taken a few nice trout out of that river.


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## avbill (Oct 25, 2008)

Who's on first?


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## DCBluesman (Oct 25, 2008)

Exactly!



avbill said:


> Who's on first?


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## TellicoTurning (Oct 25, 2008)

You guys are funny!  

I like to read these "cliquie" threads... good laugh to start the day.


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## Rojo22 (Oct 25, 2008)

I have just started the Secret Society of Cliques....If you havent filled out the application, you know where to get it, and you know where to send it...


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## airrat (Oct 25, 2008)

We could have awards given for the top cliques.

Best in Clique ---- better known as Bic?


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## GBusardo (Oct 25, 2008)

Sweet picture Gerry.  Makes me want to break out the ole fishing rod!


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## Mudder (Oct 26, 2008)

ozmandus said:


> You guys are funny!
> 
> I like to read these "cliquie" threads... good laugh to start the day.



You now realize that you joined the "clique thread clique" don't you?


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