# CSUSA



## DocStram (Apr 14, 2006)

I know that CSUSA has a long standing reputation for quality pens and good service and, I also know that it is improper etiquette to criticize.  However, I do want to voice my frustration and concern.
Of the last four orders that I have placed with them, three of the orders were only partially filled with many individual items on backorder.
I spoke with Nils this morning and he assured me that they are trying to rectify the situation. I appreciate his concern. However, until CSUSA's business model gets back on track ...... I'm going to take my moola elsewhere. 
I understand that I may be criticized for this post. I tried to state this politely and in an understanding manner ..... but, frankly, I am frustrated with CSUSA.


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## smoky10 (Apr 14, 2006)

Al, I believe all these group buys have caught them off guard and they haven't been able to catch up. This may not be the only forum that is running bulk buys. If you give them a chance to get straightened out this time, I bet they won't have this problem again.This is just my opinion, I don't have any inside info.


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## Ryan (Apr 14, 2006)

I hear your frustration. I live 30 minutes from them and I also have had back order issues with my last few orders. I took a drive down there because I had to have a kit that day for an order. I should have called. It was on back order. What about this one? Back ordered. Everything I wanted save 1 was on back order. I was pretty mad.

They then told me that they have been having problems getting their shipments through customs. They said they had been waiting for some tools to come in for quite some time and all of a sudden they had 5 shipments show up at the same time.

It is frustrating, but I am sure they will get it worked out.

Ryan


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## JimGo (Apr 14, 2006)

I know some other suppliers also had trouble in the past when we've had group buys, so you might not want to be TOO hard on them.  That being said, I understand your frustration.


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## Ligget (Apr 14, 2006)

I too am waiting on them before they ship my whole order, my choice to hold delivery until everything was ready.
As far as I can remember the date was May 8th, then I have to wait for delivery over to the UK.[xx(]
But I guess it happens to a lot of suppliers, nothing you can do but look forward to its arrival.[][]


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## DocStram (Apr 14, 2006)

Just for clarification ..... the orders I mentioned in my original post were just the things I ordered as an individual.  Then, on top of that, are the group orders that I participated in ... and both of those are back ordered as well.


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## mick (Apr 14, 2006)

I too have items I've ordered on back order with CSUSA (last two orders)...but I've gotten a call on the next business day by one of their very helpful customer service people, asking me if I wanted to keep the item on back order, or just remove it and order it at a later date.  Bear in mind these were both "hot" new items. They also volunteered dates as to when these items would be back in stock. IMHO I'll put up with a little inconvience from time to time in order to keep receiving the same service and using the quailty products that CSUSA carries!


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## thetalbott4 (Apr 14, 2006)

I am having the same issues. I dont believe the group buys are the cause as I started getting stuff on back order before the group buys. You wont find a bigger fan of CSUSA than me, but it is frustrating and I dont think Al should feel bad for voicing it. I was there the other day and same thing, another backorder. I currently have 3 backorders going. They need to lean on thier purchasing people and get secondary suppliers (or something). But for clarification, I LOVE thier kits and customer service.


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## Woodnknots (Apr 14, 2006)

I ordered something from them once, and within 2 hours someone called me to let me know some things were on back order.  I cancelled that order and ordered from BB.  That was MONTHS ago.  awhile back I ordered some kits, figured I'd try again.  Nope, back order.  I've been waiting for over a month for this back order.  They say April 12th, or sooner.  Today's the 14th, nothing yet.


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## DocStram (Apr 14, 2006)

Well, it's interesting to hear that others are having the same problems. We don't want to beat up on anybody but it is helpful to know that the problem is more widespread than I originally thought. While it is helpful to receive a friendly phone call telling you that items are out of stock it also is disappointing.  For now CSUSA's customer loyalty is pretty strong.  But my dollars are going elsewhere until things get straightened out.


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## wayneis (Apr 14, 2006)

Beings that we only have three companies that sell kits and only two of them have quality kits that makes it difficult.  I've had the same problem with both, Berea and CSUSA, I figure it goes with the deal.  Frankly, I like there kits and many on them no one else makes another like them so I'll be waiting untill they come in and the same thing goes with Berea.  I waited several months for the Silver Churchills to come in but I didn't stop buying the other kits and wood that Bill had that I wanted.

Wayne


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## airrat (Apr 14, 2006)

I hope they get their shipping straightened out from their supplier.  It is frustrating to promise to make a pen and then find out you are not able to get the kits.   If someone wants a pen made now, I tell them if I have to order the kit (certain kits only) the wait could be awhile.

Nils anyway you can post something telling us about whats going on, or maybe an update if you get any information.  Might help pacify some of the crowd.


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## Randy_ (Apr 15, 2006)

I wonder if we have 911 to thank for this situation is some way???


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## Ligget (Apr 15, 2006)

Every order that I have put into CSUSA since I started making pens always has something I need "out of stock"!
It is getting very frustrating cause I cant get stuff from Bill B due to not selling to outside USA.
Thank goodness Ernies site is there, when ordering from him it tells you when you pick an item if it is out of stock so you can choose an alternative.
CSUSA lets you know after you have paid for whats in your cart.[]
Then the Email tells you to HAVE A GREAT DAY!![xx(][)]


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## fuzzydog (Apr 15, 2006)

I've had the same problem with CSUSA, so I ordered a similar kit. What a mistake, after not hearing from their support people, I email Nils, he got right back to me until I explained the problem and now I'm waiting for an answer. Sorry Nils, but I have to call it the way I see it. You willing but your good name out there with CSUSA so it's " .......... by association." Why won't CSUSA but the old "currently out of stock" on their web pages like BB?

Now I have a question. I have never taken part in one of the CSUSA group buy (just haven't needed materials at that time) so I don't know how they work. I have always assumed that the person hosting the group buy has at least contacted CSUSA about the materials offered and he/she has them or they get assurences that CSUSA has them in stock. Would someone fill me in?
David
Juneau, AK


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## Rifleman1776 (Apr 15, 2006)

Al, I disagree about it being "improper etiquette" to criticize a business. If the criticizm is deserved, you are doing your friends here and the business a favor by proferring criticizm. I have owned businesses and recall occasions where problems I was not aware of were brought to my attention by the complaints of customers. I would have continued to lose business because of situations I did not know about. A (potential) customer that does not buy or verbalize is unknown to the business owners and managers. If you don't know about a problem, you can't solve it. As critics, we are unpaid business consultants for the suppliers.  I have long been a critic of pen dealers in general for the confusing manner in which they market kits and the seemingly sensless requirements for odd-ball drill sizes. Even though, like most, I consider CSUSA to be in the forefront of supplying pen and other turning supplies, for a long time I avoided them because of a policy on shipping charges that I considered unreasonable. There was a lot of discussion on this forum about those policies, I was not alone. CS has changed their policy and, I believe, that has pleased many customers no end. As for out of stock issues. It is annoying but sometimes unavoidable. Often it is the result of success, what I call a 'good kind of problem'. They are dealing with overseas manufacturers and the turn around time can be unpredictable. I like to try things before plunging in. Yesterday, I got an Artists pencil kit from CS that had been out of stock. Waited several weeks for that. And, to top it, the bushings and lead are still waiting. Annoying? Yes, but, I suspect this became a very popular item after several postings here and on other pen forums. I'll betcha they ordered a whole whoop of new kits and parts second time around. If I like the item, I'll order several next time and then have my own 'inventory' to assure no out of stock situations here. If you feel you have a legitimate gripe, go ahead and express it here (and to the business directly), you will be doing everybody a favor.


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## Dario (Apr 15, 2006)

Well said Frank [^]

Post like that really drives the point and carries its own credibility...added with yours, I don't think anyone can argue it.


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## rtjw (Apr 15, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Rifleman_
> <br /> If I like the item, I'll order several next time and then have my own 'inventory' to assure no out of stock situations here.



Frank, that is a very wise decision. I have people make fun of me sometimes because I will order twice as much as I need so that I wont have to order more next time. I bought 2 sets of MM from Charles a couple of weeks ago. I then found out he also sells the kits in 6 X 12, so I ordered a set of that also. I may not use it for 6 months but I wont have to worry about it when I need it. Same with pen kits. I have probably ordered 50 pen kits in the last month. I dont need them all right now but I am gauranteed not to have to worry about backorders when I do need them. Plus they give discounts for buying kits over 10 at a time so you also save a little.


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## Dario (Apr 15, 2006)

Johnny,

Most of us probably do that.  Money is tight with me but I do keep more kit than I need for that reason (biggest is the discount and savings on shipping). []

Re: what you wrote about micromesh...you maybe doing something wrong if that stock of yours only last a year [}].  My first set lasted me more than a year...still using it but will be replacing them soon.  But they are just 1/3 of my originally bought set then I won a set during the raffle for the hospital pen auction you hosted.  That time I also ordered an extra set (from Charles)...at my rate, I have enough MM for 8 years!!! [:0][:0][:0]  LOL


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## Dario (Apr 17, 2006)

I am surprised Nils didn't reply to this thread.


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## Jim in Oakville (Apr 17, 2006)

Hi Al,

The truth to matter is that I placed a Huge Order about a month ago and ran them dry on all their kits and suppliesâ€¦.My goal is to rule the supply world for CSUSA â€¦heheheheeeâ€¦.(insert Dr Evil laugh here!)[]

Well, just kidding of course.  I too am back ordered on a few itemsâ€¦for me itâ€™s okay, but there are a few things I have seen I would like to be working now that they are waiting for.[]

Since these back order events also drive my purchasing habits I find that once a back ordered item comes in I am more likely to order a higher quantity of them if they are available to avoid being short when I need them next timeâ€¦.hmmmmâ€¦now am I the only one that does that??[:0]


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## DocStram (Apr 17, 2006)

Dear Dr. Evil .... errrrrr .... I mean Jim in Oakville,
   Your email inspired me to come up with a new term in our war against the dreaded "Back Order".  It's called "Front Order".  Many of us, including you, have developed the strategy of ordering supplies way in advance of actually needing them. We're going to "Front Order".  As a matter of fact, when Nils does read these posts, maybe he'll adopt out idea for a new CSUSA policy: "If it's out of stock, we will sell it to you at a 30% discount" 
   Now, that would restore our faith as well as show appreciation for all of the loyal customers that CSUSA has developed over the years.
   By the way, Jim, I visited your website. Whoaaaaa!  Very, very impressive. Not just your pens, but also the furniture ... and the faux fireplace.  I also loved the wood ceiling in the photo of the Craftsman Chair that you made. Your workmanship is beyond "first class"!


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## Jim in Oakville (Apr 17, 2006)

> _Originally posted by DocStram_
> <br />Dear Dr. Evil .... errrrrr .... I mean Jim in Oakville,
> Your email inspired me to come up with a new term in our war against the dreaded "Back Order".  It's called "Front Order".  Many of us, including you, have developed the strategy of ordering supplies way in advance of actually needing them. We're going to "Front Order".  As a matter of fact, when Nils does read these posts, maybe he'll adopt out idea for a new CSUSA policy: "If it's out of stock, we will sell it to you at a 30% discount"
> Now, that would restore our faith as well as show appreciation for all of the loyal customers that CSUSA has developed over the years.
> By the way, Jim, I visited your website. Whoaaaaa!  Very, very impressive. Not just your pens, but also the furniture ... and the faux fireplace.  I also loved the wood ceiling in the photo of the Craftsman Chair that you made. Your workmanship is beyond "first class"!




Thanks Al,

I thinkl I have a shop FULL of front order wood and items for my Furnature making addiction...I bought about 500 bd ft of curly cherry in Indiana last fall, yes, I drove 1200 miles to buy it!!!!

Thanks for your kind words about my furniture and web site, that picture is my family room, it is a passion for me to make what I make, it's so much fun to see the results....
Again, Thank You for your kind thoughts Al,
[][]
Gottoa go and make up my Next Front order lists![]


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## rtjw (Apr 17, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Dario_
> <br />Johnny,
> 
> Most of us probably do that.  Money is tight with me but I do keep more kit than I need for that reason (biggest is the discount and savings on shipping). []
> ...



You are probably with wood like I am with MM. I just buy a ton of it for no reason. The MM i have will last me well more than a year and the current set that I have has lasted me more than 9 months. But like I said about you and wood, you never can have enough![]


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## gerryr (Apr 17, 2006)

I don't understand what the fuss is about.  Yes, its frustrating when what you want isn't immediately available, but remember, CSUSA is at the mercy of their supplier, the shipper and US Customs.  Ask those of us that have built a number of fishing rods(LanceD, tone - apologies to anyone I missed) about backorders for that stuff.  The big difference is that with the fishing rod components you don't find out its been backordered until you get part of the order.  Both times that something I ordered from CSUSA was out of stock, I got a phone call the same day and had the backordered kits within about 10 days.


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## LanceD (Apr 17, 2006)

I quit ordering online and phone in all of my orders except from AS. Their shopping cart lets you know if the item is out of stock. With CSUSA I tell them to let me know if the item is backordered so that i can eliminate that item and try to find it from another supplier. That doesn't apply to their pen kits but other items like wood, acrylics and other accecories.


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## arioux (Apr 17, 2006)

Hi,

When i finished my MBA memoire(sorry,not sure about the english expression),i choose a company here in Montreal that had the same problem.  It came up with very intersting information, specially about the way the company was manage, and their chance to stay in business again their competitor on a long run. Back order cost any company a fortune in management, handling, and supplemental shipping.  I ordered once from them, few mounts ago. 4 kits, with one on backorder, shipped separately.  No way they made money with me.  Their kits could be a lot more cheaper if they could find a way to properly manage their inventory and sales forecast.  Plus, it seems like the problem is there for quite a long time and not taken very seriously. A group buy of 200 <u>MIXED</u> kits should not be an excuse for going out of stock, don't forget that they are supposed to be the manufacturer/importer, not just a distributor.  This could also be a marketing strategy to force people to order more than they need at the time.  Altough i admit they have very unique kits and quality (this is probably why people order from them), and a very good service, no way this company look serious to me.  One of these day, someone will come up with as nice kit as them, a 25% price drop and with the irritation that they are building right now, bang, they wont see it coming.  Fidelity in busines is proportional to the thickness of the buyer wallet. Now, this is just an opinion, not an affirmation nor an accusation of any kind against CSU.

Alfred


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## nilsatcraft (Apr 17, 2006)

Once again, despite checking on the forums every weekday, I missed this thread all together.  Sorry about that.  

  First of all, we apologize for all of the backorders that we've been experiencing as of late.  As many of you have stated, we've had a lot of troubles - a lot more than normal - with getting our products from our suppliers and keeping things in stock.  There are a few main contributors as well as a series of other reasons that have caused the backorders we're experiencing. One principal delay has been the unexpected sales we've experienced in certain product areas.  This started before the group buys and was then compounded by the group buys.  We've had twice as many sales as we normally do this time of year and it takes months (literally) for us to receive the products that we've ordered.  We have also had a variety of defective parts from our supplier to deal with, all of which had to be reordered, remanufactured or repaired.  This causes quite a delay, of course, and is by no means typical.  We have also had a great deal of merchandise that was completely lost in shipping and then showed up months late. 

  These are not excuses but hopefully they'll help to answer some of the questions you have regarding these backorders.  There are a lot of other reasons I could go into but rest assured that we are doing our absolute best to keep all items in stock and we deeply regret any inconvenience that these backorders have caused.  The number of backorders that we currently have is by no means typical.

  On a positive note, we have been working for many months on a website overhaul that will include the availability of all products right on the web.  Before you order anything, you'll be able to see whether it is or isn't in stock.  This is a long process but there will be dozens of new features so it will be worth the wait.

  Also, please understand that we do not charge you for your order until after it has shipped out of our facility.  If you need to cancel an item after placing an internet order, you can do so by contacting our Customer Service Department (by email, phone or fax) and letting them know what to cancel as soon as you can.  If there are backorders on your order, our Customer Service department will contact you and ask if youâ€™d like to leave it on backorder.  If you choose to leave the items on backorder, you will not be charged for them until after they have shipped.  

  We will be happy to help answer any questions you may have and if Iâ€™ve left something out, please let me know.  Thank you all for your patience while we straighten things out with our inventory supply.


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