# New Ethics Admendment to the By-laws



## whatwoodido (Dec 23, 2004)

123


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## cigarman (Dec 23, 2004)

Drew
I believe that you are putting the cart before the horse.  We need to get this thing up and running before we start turning over rocks or slapping at hornets nest.  Until we really get started we will not know what sort of problems we might have.  Then you may have a point, although as an opimist I hope not.


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## Gary Max (Dec 23, 2004)

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year 
Santa may be watching to see if you have been good or bad.
So for goodness sake Smile and be Happy


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## jeff (Dec 23, 2004)

Drew - Good idea!  I don't know if we need an amendment, but a "code of ethics" or an ethics policy is certainly a good thing.  Perhaps you might add "Not an amendment, but a code of ethics" to the choices on your poll.

As an aside, when you create a poll, change the "Who Votes" from "Everyone" to "Members Only".  That eliminates anonymous votes from non-members, and multiple votes from members (intentional or accidental).


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## Old Griz (Dec 23, 2004)

I agree with Jeff on this... a code of ethics or ethics policy is a very good thing.... but I don't necessarily think it needs to be an amendment... 
Just about every organization that I have belonged to has some kind of ethics policy... we even wrote one into the bylaws of our new woodturning club... it reality it is more of a reminder to the membership on how they should conduct themselves in regards to the organization and representing the organization.  Fortunately I have never seen a member severely chastised for a breach of the ethics policy, but I do know that it has happened in some organization, especially where a member decided they are going to "make a buck" by using the organization name.
In the long run, especially with an organization the size of ours, we are better off having one than not... Better safe than sorry.  I am not saying that a member of this group would do anything that would breach the ethics policy, but stupid things do happen...


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## penhead (Dec 25, 2004)

Code of Ethics sounds like a good addition to the IAP (and/or any club)...but as an International organization...how would those rules be inforced..?

JohnPayton


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## Gregory Huey (Dec 26, 2004)

I for one wood like to see what you are going to impose for a code of ethics before I wood vote. Is it possible that we should get up and running before we start adding amendments. Just my $2.98


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## Scott (Dec 26, 2004)

I think what Drew is proposing is that we start working on an ammendment to the By-Laws that would impose a code of ethics on all the members of the IAP.  If I have this right, then I applaud his action!  I think a code of ethics is an appropriate thing for a group like ours!  It essentially says "This is what we are, and these are the standards we expect you to uphold".  And we do have standards, although I have been slow to apply them, in fear I might offend someone.  But I realize now that to fail to enforce your standards is worse than not having standards at all.  So yes, I am interested in the establishment of a code of ethics for the IAP.

Scott.


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## timdaleiden (Dec 26, 2004)

I think that adopting some form of ethical code would benefit this organization. I think it would add a sense of respectability to this group.


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## DCBluesman (Dec 26, 2004)

It's such a shame that we have to grow up.



> All I really need to know about how to live and what to do and how to be I learned in kindergarten. Wisdom was not at the top of the graduate school mountain, but there in the sand pile at school.
> 
> These are the things I learned:
> *Share everything.
> ...



[Source: "ALL I REALLY NEED TO KNOW I LEARNED IN KINDERGARTEN" by Robert Fulghum.  See his web site at http://www.robertfulghum.com/  ]


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## RussFairfield (Dec 26, 2004)

There are a couple things that have been bothering me about all of this.

Besides the question of Whose Rules, I am waiting to see the proposals for enforcing those "Rules". Is somebody coming to my house if I say something wrong? Will I receive a nasty letter or e-mail?  Will I be forbidden access to the forums? Will I be purged from the membership list?

All of this discussion is going in the direction of a group that I don't want to be associating with. It may be a fact of life that some people need "Rules" to govern their behavior. Should these "Rules" become a reality, it will be "their" behavior that is controlled, not mine. I will avoid any organization that doesn't have enough trust that they have to write "Rules" to determine my behavior. Fortunately, I declined the invitation to run for office, because I would be considering resignation right now.

Sorry folks, but that is the way I see it. For the future of the IAP, I hope there are not too many others who feel the same way.


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## Guest (Dec 26, 2004)

Thanks Russ.
There you have it.
From someone with more credibility than I.


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## fhinde (Dec 26, 2004)

As Russ stated "....Is somebody coming to my house if I say something wrong? Will I receive a nasty letter or e-mail? Will I be forbidden access to the forums? Will I be purged from the membership list?"

There is no way to police and enforce a standard on a virtual group. Anyone can rejoin the group under another name and anyone can say they are a member of the group at anytime. It is a noble idea but that is all. We can ask members to abide by a set of ethics but only ask them and if they don't the moderators can remove their unwelcome posts. But we have no way of enforcing any unethical actions they engage in while out in the public. Only time will root out those that are unethical and the members will learn who they are and avoid them. I wish we had other options but I can not think of any.


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## Mudder (Dec 27, 2004)

> _Originally posted by whatwoodido_
> <br />So if an board member were to do something unethical that led to the IAP being liable all of you that are against a code of ethics are willing to pony up your own money (along with the rest of the members money) for the settlement because no action was taken to clearly state that the IAP has a code of ethics that were violated?



First of all Drew, lets think about this a little. Look at my name. Mudder. Do you think that it would be easy to trace me? If the IAP is a corporation then the only ones who would be liable would be the members of the board. If it is not a corporation then there is not much that could be done in the way of monitary compensation for any liability of a member, no matter if they are on the board or not.

Please guys, Why don't we all take a step back and do a little research on this.


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## Gary (Dec 27, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Mudder_
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Mudder...it would be VERY Easy to trace you...It's called and ISP number.[}]


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## DCBluesman (Dec 27, 2004)

Drew...It appears you have five members now.  Please follow the guidelines detailed below and taken directly from our by-laws such that we can consider your amendment.

<b>Amendments</b>
Amendments to the bylaws may be proposed by the Board of Directors, by any
standing committee, or by a petition agreed upon by five or more members of the
Association.
<b>Procedures</b>
Proposed amendments to the bylaws shall be approved for consideration by a
majority of the Board of Directors. This review is for the purpose of assuring that the
wording, format and context of the proposal will be compatible with the bylaws, and
is not for review of intent or appropriateness. Written notice of the text of the
amendment shall be provided to members at least two weeks prior to voting by
posting on the Association website.
<b>Voting</b>
Amendments to the bylaws shall be approved by a two-thirds plus one count of the
votes cast by those members of the Association choosing to vote. The voting period
shall be no less than seven days, and no more than fourteen days, and will be set by
the Board of Directors prior to the commencement of the vote.
<b>Adoption</b>
The results of the voting on an amendment shall be tabulated by the Board of
Directors, and certified to the membership of the Association within seven days of
the close of the voting period. The new amendment becomes effective as soon as it
has been certified to the membership as described above.

Louis E. Metcalf,III, President
International Association of Penturners


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## Mudder (Dec 27, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Gary_
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Okay trace me.

If it is so easy to do howcome there is still so much file sharing and trading of music still happening? Didn't Napster get shut down?
You would need a court order to do so and you would face the lawyers of many different ISP's. The recording industry of america tried this and it cost them millions. The point I am trying to make is that it would be not worth the hassle to try to search down and track every member.

And Gary,

How do you know that I am not surfing behind an anonymous proxy server? I could possibly be on a Linux machine using IP spoofing. Maybe I am a script kiddie using a machine that I have implanted a trojan on and I can change machines and IP addresses at will. All I am asking is for everyone to take a step back and think about it. Is that too much to ask?


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## Gary (Dec 27, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Mudder_
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Too much to ask? Not for me man...it's you and Drew that seem to be having a snit. I'm not worried about it. Have a nice evening.


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## timdaleiden (Dec 27, 2004)

Wow, am I ever sorry I brought up this subject. I feel like I have offended way too many people. 

  I am sorry if I have caused trouble. 

  Best wishes,


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## jeff (Dec 27, 2004)

Tim - you sparked some good debate!  Nothing wrong with that.


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## DCBluesman (Dec 27, 2004)

Let me assure you, Tim, that I was not offended by your post in the least.  I was glad to keep things in the open and to see how members felt.


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## Mudder (Dec 27, 2004)

Tim,

Don't be sorry. Your concerns are valid. I believe that you made the group stronger because we have found out that we can have good debate on an important subject without it degrading to a "flame war". This is one of two forums that I frequent because there is good information available without having to sift through all the flamers and morons. I am not upset in the very least, I just want people to see both sides of the coin.


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## C_Ludwigsen (Dec 27, 2004)

Is it my imagination or are all of the posts by drew edited to no content?


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## jeff (Dec 28, 2004)

Chuck - Looks like he has edited his poll in this thread.  I don't see other edits, but some things seem to be missing.  Either he deleted them or a moderator did.  I doubt the latter because I've asked the mods not to delete, but rather to move topics to a limited access forum where we can evaluate and discuss them.


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## DCBluesman (Dec 28, 2004)

Based on what remains, Drew "self-moderated".


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