# sure got quiet in here



## pipeyeti (Mar 12, 2008)

where are all the others that wanted this forum?


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## LEAP (Mar 12, 2008)

Out making pens?


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## Daniel (Mar 12, 2008)

The way I see it you have 5000 general penturners. As for advanced people the numbers drop off drastically. I still think this forum is a good idea but traffic will not likely be all that heavy. Real out of the box stuff does not come about real fast or regularly.


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## Texatdurango (Mar 12, 2008)

With 25+ members getting in on the group buy for the tap and die sets I would have thought there would be a fair bit of conversation going on about all types of customizing ideas.  After all, if one will be shedding the lower body nib coupler and upper cap threaded insert, they are likely to be trying other things as well.


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## pipeyeti (Mar 12, 2008)

hope things pick up.


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## wood-of-1kind (Mar 12, 2008)

> _Originally posted by pipeyeti_
> 
> where are all the others that wanted this forum?



They're too "humble" to post.[)]


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## GoodTurns (Mar 12, 2008)

chirp, chirp, chirp...

I enjoy reading the posts here, unfortunately, I am still trying to master the ADVANCED PEN MAKING skill of having the blanks the same size as the fittings!...someday I'll be able to play in the Big Kid's  sandbox![:I]


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## Scott (Mar 12, 2008)

Oh, you mean I have to post, too?   

Hopefully I'll be able to contribute soon.  This is my busy season at work.   [xx(]

Scott.


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## karlkuehn (Mar 12, 2008)

Well, I haven't posted here yet because, until I see the "_Super_ Advanced Pen Making" forum, I'm not interested in sharing my secrets with you lot of cretins and Philistines. 

I mean, really...tap and die sets!? I'm so far beyond just run-o-the-mill "Advanced" that I use the tip of my skew to make threads. Sometimes I just sharpen the end of a paper clip and use that, in true MacGyver fashion. And on a good day...I just use the incredible super-duper power of my mind to x-ray laser the wood.

"Advanced"...HAH! pffft.

[]


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## pipeyeti (Mar 12, 2008)

I think people are getting the wrong idea about what this section is about. By posting here I don't feel I am better than anyone else. its not about I'm to good to post in the regular pen forum. It was started as I understand it to discuss some of the issues that are a little more complicated than getting the correct size bushing on the correct end. If you don't want to participate fine, but the snide comments are really uncalled for.


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## Jarheaded (Mar 12, 2008)

Larry, I don't think anyone was doing anything that was out of line, they were just trying to lighten up what is turning into a scary subject for some. I am working on some pens that are not going to be made with any kit parts except for the ink cartridge. I am just so engrossed with it, that I can't put the problems that I am having into words yet. This is very new to some of us and we use humor to express our frustration sometimes. I have been trying to use stabilized wood to make a nib that will extend past the tip to close. I am close to having it done, but it is far from ready to even show. It is what I am doing, but I don't want to hear that others have tried and failed so I shouldn't try. It has cut my pen production down to special orders only and my usual pen stock is starting to dwindle. I did not buy into the tap and die set because that is what others are doing. I want my pen to be a true one of a kind that can be copied by anyone easily. On paper, it looks easy, but when I am in the shop, it just does not work the way it should by my drafts. It is frustrating, but if I have my choice of cursing and screaming, or making a joke about it, I would rather smaile and crack a joke.
Maybe we can get the ball rolling this way. What are you doing and how is it coming along?


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## pipeyeti (Mar 12, 2008)

I have been working on the internal engineering of the cap and how I will be attaching the clip. I spoke with George(tex) on the phone the other nite and he gave me some great ideas. I went to a pen shop yesterday and spent alot of time (with the owners permission) looking at many diferent brands and checking out thier engineering and and how they post.


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## karlkuehn (Mar 12, 2008)

Wow...I don't see anything snide here at all. Humor is a normal communication style for all of us, and we've been using it to lighten each other's lives for a long time. Makes it a _fun_ time to log on and see what everyone is up to and answer questions as needed.

Everyone knows what this forum is for, and why it was created, it's just that out of all the pen turners, maybe 25% is ready to tackle advanced stuff, and out of that percentage, I imagine that only about 10% are consistently working/thinking/posting about advanced topics. Those percentages are probably generous, too.

If we 'snobify' this forum by putting the kibosh on humor, I guarantee that you're going to see less people, so lighten up a little. 

As far as people posting here, give it a chance! Advanced stuff takes a little longer. When you're pumping out 100 regular pens a week, running into questions or having an epiphany about a great new method is a lot more common than when you're doing one-offs at a rate of five per week - again, probably a generous number. I know I've got a bunch of ideas in the design phase, and this will be the first place I post when I run into a snag that I can't work out myself. It will also be the first place I post when I come up with something that's actually organized and ready to be posted about (well, maybe don't hold your breath about the 'organized' part)...


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## pipeyeti (Mar 12, 2008)

Maybe I am getting a little buggy. 16 cigars yesterday all in the same material and 12 euros in that same friggin material today. At least that will be the end of the special order. Sorry if I jumped too soon.


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## karlkuehn (Mar 12, 2008)

> _Originally posted by pipeyeti_
> 
> Maybe I am getting a little buggy. 16 cigars yesterday all in the same material and 12 euros in that same friggin material today. At least that will be the end of the special order. Sorry if I jumped too soon.



Custom orders suck, don't they? I'm right there with you, under the gun to be 'creative on demand', and stressing about getting things done. And I'm not even confined to doing the same material, so you're in worse shape than me, not accounting for the fact that you're actually done...hehe []

In between casting batches and turning some custom order pens, I'm in the middle of writing a couple of tutorials that I've been putting off, and it's killing me. Feels like I'm back in college. Beats hammering nails any day of the week, though. hehe

Hang in there, things will pick up here!

If you want, I can write up my tutorial on how I super-glued my bushings to my pen barrel - on purpose. No joke, last night I was working on a pen while in the middle of 14 other things, and for some reason, when I was switching out the top tube to the bottom  tube, without thinking about it, I put CA around the inside of the brass and stuffed the bushing in there like I was gluing in a loose fitting. Didn't even realize that I had done it until after after the tube was finished and I went to retrieve it. 18 hour days are starting to take their toll on the old noggin, I think. [B)][V]

Sometimes I wonder how I've survived this long.


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## Russianwolf (Mar 12, 2008)

Karl --- go breath some more resin fumes, you are way behind on building your inventory. []


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## karlkuehn (Mar 12, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Russianwolf_
> 
> Karl --- go breath some more resin fumes, you are way behind on building your inventory. []



Oh, thanks Mike! Just what I needed! More pressure. hehe...my head's gonna explode like Johnnie's pot...

Hey, how far does a 50 cal shoot anyways?

*looks out window and closes blinds*

[]


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## Dan_F (Mar 12, 2008)

I think that not enough people know the secret handshake yet, and we ran out of sacred head coverings, without the use of which it is impossible to access this forum. Hopefully this will be sorted out by time the tap and dies come in from Joe. 

By the way, I posted something about a fountain pen desk set which in retrospect probably should have gone here, but is in the penturning forum.

Dan


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## aurrida (Mar 12, 2008)

here is a link to the fountainpen network of someone who has seemingly done the impossible. 

http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=55747

good luck to those who are trying to put their ideas into reality, the rest of us are all looking on with interest.


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## pipeyeti (Mar 12, 2008)

One more euro to go. Yes I'm almost done. If it weren't for the special orders tho, I couldn't afford to spend money on more pen stuff.


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## sptfr43 (Mar 12, 2008)

just waiting for the tap and die set to come in. Have made a coulpe with regular taps, die from harbor freight but not to crazy about the way the threads look at the transition to the barrel. Also made an el grande with a twist. will try to figure out the camera thingy again ( my memeory seems to last about an hour with that thing. ) and get some pics posted. By the way anyone know how to add pics to a reply?


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## Texatdurango (Mar 12, 2008)

When I spoke to Jeff about adding this forum, the original thought was "Kitless Pens and designs".  Somehow it got changed around to "Advanced".  I think that word is why some are taking pot shots at those who post here and possibly why a few others are reluctant to post.

You don't have to be an advanced pen maker to post or participate here, hell, look at me, I'm just a rookie with lots of time on my hands!  The pros around here have forgotten more than I know about pen making so don't let the forum title fool you.

To me, this is just a playground for those of us who want to experiment around making pens with or without all of the kit parts, to share ideas.


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## Jarheaded (Mar 12, 2008)

The only thing that I am a qualified expert at is an M-16 rifle and a .45 caliber pistol.  Other than that, I am just a student and will continue to make mistakes and keep starting over until I am happy with my results. Maybe we should ask Jeff to reword the name to keep everyone(Karl) happy.[}]

Karl, a .50 caliber will travel as far as the intended target, unless something solid gets in its way and then it will stop. I believe the accurate range for a .50 caliber rifle has been proven at around 1500 meters, but I may be a little off as I always liked to be up close and personal myself. We can continue talking about this in a PM if you are looking for serious information.


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## sptfr43 (Mar 12, 2008)

Johnnie, I believe I saw on the history channel where a canadian sniper had a confirmed kill at over 3000 mtrs.


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## karlkuehn (Mar 12, 2008)

> _Originally posted by sptfr43_
> 
> Johnnie, I believe I saw on the history channel where a canadian sniper had a confirmed kill at over 3000 mtrs.



Yeah, but since they're Canadian meters, doesn't that make it like 2600 after the conversion rate? [][}]


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## wood-of-1kind (Mar 13, 2008)

> _Originally posted by karlkuehn_
> 
> Yeah, but since they're Canadian meters, doesn't that make it like 2600 after the conversion rate? [][}]



Karl, I'd watch my <s>green</s> back if I were you.[)]


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## ashaw (Mar 13, 2008)

Iam busy getting ready for atlanta.  Right now I have a pen on the lathe with no kit parts.  Hopefully I will not make too many mistakes.  But thats the only way you learn.

Alan


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## marionquill (Mar 13, 2008)

I'm working on a design for a kitless pen using a snap action to secure the cap. Just have not posted any of the troubles because I still need a couple tools and haven't tried my plan yet. I've got all the sizes for the fountain pen front and the sizes for the body figured out...and how to secure the ink cartrige, just have to figure out what I'll use for the tube in the body - be it an acrylic using a step drill method or maybe canablising a $2 pen of some brand.  Thought about using the cap of a uniball pen as the cap tube since it already has a nice bead on the inside and the tube is flexible...guess it would still be somewhat like a "kit" but much more fun []

It may be a month until I get everything together to try it but am sure I'll be posting in here soon enough...


Jason


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## lane223 (Mar 13, 2008)

Been working on the 500 pen order.   I've got 192 done.  I think I hate slimlines. My take on this now is this is something like the "wax on - wax off" in the karate kid movie. I'm learning stuff now, but it's not exactly fun. I've been also working on the prototype for the damascus steel pen I want to do. First in stainless, then the tweaks, then the exensivce stuff. Like what was said before, this takes time and mistakes.


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## bitshird (Mar 14, 2008)

> _Originally posted by karlkuehn_
> 
> Well, I haven't posted here yet because, until I see the "_Super_ Advanced Pen Making" forum, I'm not interested in sharing my secrets with you lot of cretins and Philistines.
> 
> ...


 OK !! now do we understand the necessity of having a respirator, some of the fumes from our woods, polyester resins and finishes will do this.[]
It's all right Karl, the nice men in the white suits are only coming to help you.


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## karlkuehn (Mar 14, 2008)

> _Originally posted by bitshird_
> OK !! now do we understand the necessity of having a respirator, some of the fumes from our woods, polyester resins and finishes will do this.[]
> It's all right Karl, the nice men in the white suits are only coming to help you.



Cool! Any bet takers on whether or not I can sell them some blanks before they take me over the 'big workshop'? []

I suppose I can just lift the old safety glasses and x-ray them if I need to. I hate using my powers like that, though.

Does anyone else smell artichoke hearts? *looks around*


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## ldb2000 (Mar 15, 2008)

Hi everybody 
I think the name advanced pen making fits this subject perfectly . This should be a place to post anything penmaking that dont fit B2B and and standard kit pens .
I would love to be as modest as Karl and say that i am the greatest penmaker of all time but to be truthful I'm little more then a newborn to this great addiction .
The one thing that I have wanted to do since I started is to make a kitless pen....not sure why but.....and in the first few posts I have already learned tons of useful information .
As for my contribution....it's comming , have already finished the lower barrel to my first kitless slimline....hee hee...I made a Papermate?...when done the only parts of the slimline used will be the tubes , transmission and ink cart...and the centerband? lol.
My first observation is that (flame suit on) Alumilite dont work too well for the nib PR is much harder and will last longer (flame away)  .
The clip is a much harder problem...reading with great interest about it here...keep the posts comming PLEASE!!!!!


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## Carl Bakkum (Mar 18, 2008)

Hi everyone, Just want to add something.
Women and cats will do as they please, men and dogs should just relax and learn to live with it.  Carl Bakkum


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## desertyellow (May 2, 2008)

Thank you for keeping it real.

Tony
Las Vegas


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## CSue (May 23, 2008)

<s>Okay.  I've been around a number of things in this "Advanced" section.  And I've come to the conclusion that its just another "room" for people who think they can fly ON paper airplanes - and fumes and a lot of hot air outside the boxes.

I want to make . . . well, a wood . . . "Oblique penholder"

While</s> I'm learning about it, this forum is quite enthralling!


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## ldb2000 (May 24, 2008)

Ok well heres my HOT AIR and FUMES powering my PAPER AIRPLANE just to KEEP IT REAL .[xx(]









Sorry but that just got my goat .
Instead of making flippant remarks how about showing some effort and try to make something worthy of posting in the ADVANCED PEN MAKING area.
This is fairly new ground we are forging here and it will take some time before we get up to speed with this stuff , don't expect every post to be full of pearls of wisdom , the idea of this forum is to post ideas , discuss them and then work them out .
Ok so this is my first attempt at a (Semi)Kitless pen as well as threading acrylic and turning a closed end pen and engraving the disc for the finial and casting the thingamajig (Dohicky is already taken) , alot of firsts and they all worked well .
I don't think it's quite good enough to put in the SOYP so I'll post it here .
Sorry for the out of focus pic must have bumped the camera and I didnt notice it until I went to process it .
The Finial was engraved with my initials on a sterling silver disc (Thanks George) and then cast over the red and encased in clear then turned to fit ala Yoyospins Dohickies the pic don't do it justice .
Still working on a clip of my own , so far PMC with musicwire rebar seems to work ok but not ready for prime time , for this pen I used a Baron clip .
Overall it was fun trying to figure out how to hold the blanks to do all the turning and threading .
This is a FP with a Ligero nib but I am also working on a rollerball nib of my own (the kitless slimline was practice for the acrylic rollerball nib assy and PMC clips , everything has a reason) .
Alot of work went into this project and alot of mistakes were made but even more was learned along the way .
For my next project I'm gonna make a transparent pen with invisible ink [}]
Sorry for the rant .


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## pipeyeti (May 24, 2008)

Butch thats a great looking pen, very cool.


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## RussFairfield (May 24, 2008)

Now, THAT is advanced pen making. EXCELLENT!! Thanks for sharing.


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## Texatdurango (May 24, 2008)

> _Originally posted by ldb2000_
> 
> ....This is fairly new ground we are forging here and it will take some time before we get up to speed with this stuff , don't expect every post to be full of pearls of wisdom , *the idea of this forum is to post ideas , discuss them and then work them out *.
> 
> ...


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## gketell (May 24, 2008)

Butch, that is a wonderful pen.  Definitely worthy of posting anywhere you so choose!  

GK


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## ldb2000 (May 24, 2008)

Hi Everyone
First I want to say thank you for the compliments on my first attempt on this kind of project , then I MUST say that I could'nt have done it without the help and support from all of the people here at the IAP . I have learned sooooo much from you Russ and George and Ed and the list could go on and on , your posts and Pens have shown me the way to go and I can never thank you guys enough for the education and the ideas .
I will shoot a better picture of the pen tonight and get it posted in the SOYP forum ASAP (I seem to be my worst critic when it comes to my work or so my better half keeps telling me)
Thank You all again


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## CSue (May 24, 2008)

Butch and all here.  I want to sincerely apologize for my remarks yesterday.  What I "said" isn't what I meant.  What I meant was something entirely different!  It was supposed to mean this is a great place to see dreams become reality.  Only yesterday I 'didn't have _those words'_.

Your pen is really a beauty, Butch!  I love the flow of the lines and the color is one of my favorites.


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## gwilki (May 25, 2008)

Beautiful work, Butch. My vote is with the others on posting it in show off. Those who don't read this forum should get a good look at it.


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## ldb2000 (May 26, 2008)

CSue sorry for going off like that (believe me , I've had days like that too) it's just that I had high hopes for this forum and was looking forward to reading about all the inovations that would be posted here and getting some input about the big issues like fabricating clips and stuff .
I have to say  I'm VERY disapointed at the results so far and just cant understand all the negativity that has been shown so far .
I've only been turning pens since the end of last August and had very little idea of how to do a kitless pen but I read everything I could find here and in the PMG on the subject and looked at ALOT of photos then thought about how they were done and improvised my own way of doing it (and I AIN't NO genius , hell if it were'nt for a spell checker you would'nt be able to read this post....I KANT SPEL to save my life) so if I can do this the only reason most others can't is either they are afraid to try or they are dumber then me and I know that's not possibile 
Anyway thank you for the kind words .
PS; the Pen is now posted in SOYP


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