# The new Celtic kits from PSI.   Problems



## mightymavkev (Jan 2, 2014)

Has anyone built the new Celtic pens from PSI?   They recently came back into stock and I purchased the starter pack.  It comes with 2 each of the antique brass and pewter kits.

Anyway, the clip portion presses into the tube but it looks like it is actually 2 rings with the clip ring itself in the middle like a sandwich.   This looks cool, but it is very week and the outer rings collapse under any pressure at all when pressing onto the tube.  

I had to use a small flat screwdriver to bend the collapsed ring back up.  It turned out "OK" but this doesn't seem like a good design to me. 

So either I'm doing this wrong or their design or instructions for assembly are flawed.


Also, the end cap presses onto the twist mechanism.   It is a VERY tight fit and I had to push VERY hard (almost to the point of needing the press).   When I did this on the two pens I made, I felt something give inside the twist mechanism itself and afterward they would not work.  Felt like some of the plastic parts inside the transmissions "popped" under the pressure of pushing on the end cap.

I had to steal the two transmissions from the other two kits and very carefully press the end caps on those.  These went on a bit easier - as if the first times stretched the tube of the end caps a bit because it wasn't so hard getting it on the second transmission in each case.

I've asked PSI to send me some new transmissions, but although they've responded to my email, they haven't told me if they're going to help me or not.


Anyway, I was wondering if anyone had this experience or if I was just doing something wrong with these kits.

thanks,

Kevin


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## mark james (Jan 2, 2014)

Been getting ready to order a few...  Maybe I'll wait.

I got 4 of the Armor kits; in spite of their problems mine were fine and I like their feel.

The Armor kits are "rustic" which fits the design; when showing them to my son's friends (19-24 yr old) they really like them.  They wouldn't want a great looking Elegant Sierra!  :giggle:

Good Luck!


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## edstreet (Jan 2, 2014)




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## mightymavkev (Jan 4, 2014)

great pic.

So on the clip piece, you can see what look like 3 rings.   the two outer rings and the clip ring itself sandwiched between the two.

In actuality, I think it's all one piece but I'm not sure.

Anyway, since the outer most ring is not supported around the outside (because of the indented pattern between it and the actual clip), this part collapses when pressing the clip section into the pen tube.

I've taken the liberty of trying to illustrate what I mean on your pic by showing where it collapses in red.

I fixed the two I did by prying the ring back up with a flat screwdriver, but that metal is pretty soft and the screwdriver messes up the finish pretty easily.   I did not try any plastic "prying" tools (like my set of plastic automotive panel removal tools).   Those might work better.

Anyway, I haven't heard back from PSI yet on the transmission problem either.   On both of mine they fit so tight into the butt that I had to destroy one of them completely with a needle nose pliers to get it back out after it "popped" inside it.   Like I said, on both pens, the second set of transmissions went in much better and I think that is for no other reason than the first ones "stretched" the brass a little.


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## Janster (Jan 4, 2014)

*...just maybe*

if you have washer that is of the same thickness you could cut it in half and fit it back together "around" the clip indentation to keep it from collapsing while pressing. May need a small piece of Scotch tape? ? Not a permanent fix but until PSI remedies the problem, that should work?


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## TimS124 (Jan 4, 2014)

Can you use a small washer to apply pressure inside of that ring (where it's hopefully sturdier) instead of on the ring itself?


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## mightymavkev (Jan 5, 2014)

Those are great ideas.   Do you think an O-ring would work as well?   Just thinking that might still support the metal enough but be softer so as not to mar the finish in any way and I wouldn't have to worry about cutting a washer.


I was looking more closely at that piece on my other two kits this morning.   It looks to me that if I could find something to fit inside the outer ring's diameter when pressing that I could prevent the crushing of that piece as well.   

I'm thinking I could find a simple piece of wooden dowel or perhaps another pen kit's bushing that I could use as an extension on my press pads.


So I think these ideas will help alleviate the clip portion "bending" problem.


Now to get new transmissions from PSI and try to figure out how to press the end cap over it tight enough so that it still twists without slipping and yet doesn't fit so tight that it requires so much pressure on the transmission that it crushes it inside.

I'm hesitant to try expanding the end cap's tube.   I doubt I could do that with enough precision to relax the fit "just enough and not any more".

Looking at the kit pieces and I'm thinking I can try to press the end cap onto the transmission end while it is off the pen so that I can hold it by it's sides and hope that I can hold it tight enough with my fingers to allow me to push the cap all the way on.  If I can manage that, it should prevent that longitudinal pressure on the transmission's internals which I think is what is causing it to fail on me.

Then I could screw the transmission into the kit with the end cap already on it.


Thanks for the ideas!


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## mightymavkev (Jan 5, 2014)

I just realized TimS124's idea was basically the same as what I was saying with the dowel or bushing.

Sorry I missed that.

And thanks for the help.   I do believe something like that might work.


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## Priusjames (Jan 5, 2014)

Interesting problem, good thing pen makers are so accustomed to finding and overcoming obstacles around every corner!

Good luck, can't imagine your transmissions won't be replaced.  It might be a good time to grab some sets before they take them off sale and re-tool (or, am I showing my innocence?)!

James


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## Swagopenturner (Jan 5, 2014)

Good Luck!  I called PSI about my order last Thursday and was told they are out of stock.  The Celtic pen kits sold alot better than they anticipated and expect more in before the end of January.  I did receive my order of Knight's Armor and was impressed with them.  I put two together and really like the way they look.


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## Dale Allen (Jan 5, 2014)

My take from this is that they moved too quickly to make these available and did not completely test and check fitment.  It could also be that the tolerance on the tubes are at the extreme smallest ID and the hardware is at the extreme larges OD.
If I were to make one, which I don't plan to anytime soon, I'd check common kits that fit nicely for the ID/OD and ream the brass to match on these kits.   Or go further and glue them in...but I don't like this method.


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## edstreet (Jan 5, 2014)

One thing you could do is press them on without the transmission. Use the end cap or a small rod.  Transmissions are often not that strong as they are designed to move freely and often.

There is a ring below the clip as shown here.


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## mightymavkev (Jan 12, 2014)

Just an update.  PSI replied and while they did so without obviously reading any of my question first, I believe they are replacing the transmissions.   They didn't acknowledge one way or the other, but I received one of those UPS notices that they sent me something and I have no pending order with them.  So I assume that is new transmissions.

I'm thinking I will just save one of the old broken transmissions and press it in the cap/butt piece first and then pull it back out.  On the other kits, that required pliers, but I'd only be using the old transmission to do this first and let it relieve some of the tight fit before pressing onto the new ones they are hopefully sending me.

Thanks again to everyone for all the help.


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## mightymavkev (Jan 14, 2014)

PSI came through.  2 new transmissions in the mail yesterday.  So at least my other two kits won't have to be used just for parts


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## Dan Masshardt (Jan 14, 2014)

I'm trying to decide whether to order a couple of these kits.   Will you guys order them again or no?


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## mark james (Jan 14, 2014)

Yes, I will.  Got 4 today - all look fine!


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## mightymavkev (Jan 14, 2014)

yeah.  wife and daughter like them and I like the large pen body for cool blanks.

I think they'd look good with some rustic burl looking blanks.  

So far, I've only done the two I mentioned in this thread with tru-stone.  Have to admit they did come out pretty nice.

I think they'll figure out the fitment issues more than likely.  I know now from the first two what to watch out for and will just be careful so I'm sure they'll be fine.


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## mark james (Jan 14, 2014)

Good thread!   Thank you to all the contributers.


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## Ted iin Michigan (Jan 17, 2014)

Follow up on this thread -

I got interested in the Celtic when I first spotted it in the PSI catalog. They were out of stock for some time but I got several kits recently. Before I did the first one, I spotted this thread which got my attention. Completed the first one today (sorry no pics). It is a pewter material and I paid a fair amount of attention to keeping the interior of the tube clear, esp when I was epoxying it to the blank. Also, I reamed the end of the tube slightly to remove any burr. Happy to report that assembly went well and the pen is destined for LOML this evening.


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## mightymavkev (Jan 17, 2014)

That's great Ted.  Maybe PSI has the issue figured out in their new batches.   Or perhaps I just got some bad ones.

Just to be clear though, the tight fit problem I'm referring to is with the butt cap of the pen.   That tube and how tight it fits over the pen transmission.   

That's the fit that was requiring me to push so hard that the internal mechanism of the transmission was crushed to the point that it wouldn't function any more.

I didn't have any problem with pressing the pen components into the pen body tube that I turned (although I do take extra care to remove any trace of burrs and epoxy like you do).

If you didn't have any issues with the butt cap of the pen fit over the transmission, perhaps it was just a few bad ones and I go them  or maybe they've fixed it by now.   

Let's hope cause I like the kit.

Kevin


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## Smitty37 (Jan 17, 2014)

mightymavkev said:


> Those are great ideas. Do you think an O-ring would work as well? Just thinking that might still support the metal enough but be softer so as not to mar the finish in any way and I wouldn't have to worry about cutting a washer.
> 
> 
> I was looking more closely at that piece on my other two kits this morning. It looks to me that if I could find something to fit inside the outer ring's diameter when pressing that I could prevent the crushing of that piece as well.
> ...


Here's a bit of information....the transmission being provided by PSI might be oversized.  I have a whole bunch of transmissions that were undersized and if you look at them side by side with the right size, you can't tell the difference with the naked eye. The transmission they're using might be made for a slightly bigger tube than you have in the finial.


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## mightymavkev (Jan 17, 2014)

yep you're right.  might not be the finial component tube at all.  Didn't think of that.

So that, of course, means that the 2 new transmissions they sent me (because I destroyed the others getting them back out of the finial with pliers) might be a bit smaller.

If that's the case, unfortunately, it wouldn't prove if they fixed the kits or if I just got a couple good "replacement parts".


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## Smitty37 (Jan 17, 2014)

mightymavkev said:


> yep you're right. might not be the finial component tube at all. Didn't think of that.
> 
> So that, of course, means that the 2 new transmissions they sent me (because I destroyed the others getting them back out of the finial with pliers) might be a bit smaller.
> 
> If that's the case, unfortunately, it wouldn't prove if they fixed the kits or if I just got a couple good "replacement parts".


If you happen to have a polaris lying around check the transmission against the ones you got with the kit....those styles are obvious take off's on the polaris and might be using the same internal parts (although the Celtic tube appears to be a tad longer) if PSI is half smart they will be.
.


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