# Any chance of some help with a decal problem?



## paulloseby (Feb 13, 2017)

I've been making bullet pens with British military crests on.  Made about 650 in the last 6 months to raise money for the various military charities.  

It has been a learning process but we seem to have cracked it now but I've just had two come back to me from June last year when I first started these decal pens - and I don't know the problem.

I spray paint the wood, layers of ca; apply the decal; more layers of ca and then fine paste and then polish.  That works fine particularly now that we've sorted out the best decal paper for us and now using a laser printer.

These pens have been stored in a closed drawer since June.  The colours have really lost their brilliance; the decals have gone cloudy under the layers of superglue and even creases have appeared.  White has appeared along some edges although that did occasionally happen with the inkjet decals.

I just want to know what is happening to make sure it doesn't happen again.  I would really appreciate any advice.  Sorry about the quality of the photos - I didn't set the light box up

I would say that the pens I make now are a thousand times better than these

Many thanks

Paul


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## Flush1974 (Feb 13, 2017)

There are a few things that could be going on.  

1.  The paint you are using needs more cure time before you CA it.  Enamels need a while. 

2.  Inkjet decals do not hold up as well as Laser decals.  You can buy the laser decal paper and take your designs to a Kinkos or other print shop and they will print as many as you want.  Laser printers are a lot crisper and last longer.

The CA is too hot for the Decals.  I've been running into the same issue.  My other hobby deals with model aircraft and there are a lot of decals.  I have been meshing the two hobbies and found the CA burns the decals.  You will need to protect the decal with a clear coat of enamel or acrylic clear.  Let the blanks cure for a day or two then you can proceed with the CA.

Note:  Acrylic clear coat does not need as much time to cure as does enamel.  Enamel would need at least a day to cook off the chemicals before adding CA.

Bottom line:  My experience tells me that there is not enough cure time between your different medium applications.

Steve


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## paulloseby (Feb 14, 2017)

Thanks ever so much for that Steve.  I suppose at that time, I could have been rushing between the coats of ca although I didn't think so and again, at that time, I wasn't keeping the ca in the fridge so it could have been too warm.  Certainly given me something to think about.
Many thanks again
Paul


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## Bikerdad (Feb 14, 2017)

paulloseby said:


> Thanks ever so much for that Steve.  I suppose at that time, I could have been rushing between the coats of ca although I didn't think so and again, at that time, I wasn't keeping the ca in the fridge so it could have been too warm.  Certainly given me something to think about.
> Many thanks again
> Paul



I suspect that by "hot", Steve means the chemical aggressiveness of the CA in linking with the decal, not the actual temperature.


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## paulloseby (Feb 16, 2017)

*CA too hot*

Many thanks for that Bikerdad but how do I find out how hot it is or adjust it?

Many thanks for your help

Paul


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## Flush1974 (Feb 16, 2017)

The chemical reaction when CA cures causes heat that melts the decals.  So you need to protect it by painting it with either an enamel or acrylic clear paint.  Then let that cure for a couple days then you can CA to your heart's content.

Steve


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## rd_ab_penman (Feb 16, 2017)

From my experience CA and decal paper are not comparable.
CA is too inconsistent and unpredictable.
I use Inkjet printer, seal with Krylon Clear Acrylic Coating. 
Apply 2 coats of MINWAX WBOM Clear Gloss Polyurethane 
to the wood. Apply the decal and finish with 6 coats using my Dipping Method.

Les


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## Bikerdad (Feb 16, 2017)

Flush1974 said:


> The chemical reaction when CA cures causes heat that melts the decals.  So you need to protect it by painting it with either an enamel or acrylic clear paint.  Then let that cure for a couple days then you can CA to your heart's content.
> 
> Steve



Steve is right.  I wasn't thinking straight, likely because I've switched from using blue paper towels to craft foam for applying the CA.  If you use the paper towels, you're constantly reminded of the heat from the reaction.  With craft foam, not so much.

Some questions: Are you using a decal solution?  Solva-Set (and others, if there are others, haven't done any modelling in a while) _may _ have  complicated things.  Second, as far as the fading and muddying goes, that's possibly a characteristic of the inks used, possibly reacting with the CA while it was applied and curing.  Since you're no longer using an inkjet, that shouldn't be an issue any longer.

I haven't done any decals (yet) on my pens, so Steve sounds like the GoTo guy on this.  I know I'll be doing some research here before I do my first decals, which I've already got some planned.


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## paulloseby (Feb 16, 2017)

Excuse my ignorance 'RD' but what does WBOM stand for?  We can get Minwax in the UK but it has to be shipped in.  It isn't a general product on the shelf here.

Many thanks and the dipping looks good - and effective

Paul


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## paulloseby (Feb 16, 2017)

Got it thanks RD  Minwax Water Based Oil-Modified Polyurethane Finish 

Many thanks

Paul


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