# Shipping Hummmmmmmm!!!



## pens by david (Mar 14, 2012)

I thought 16oz = a pound, why is it that some vendors show on there invoice one weight ( always higher) then UPS,USPS, fedex etc show on the box when you receive it

For instance vender shows 13LBS and the shipper showed 12.2LBS.

Why does  venderA charge one price for a flat rate box and venderB charge higher price (same size box) from USPS ?

Sounds like someone is making few extra pennies which add UP...

Oh! and if you are going to say Handling ,they do not say Shipping and Handling ,they just say SHIPPING....

Just food for thought!!!

David


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## hunter-27 (Mar 14, 2012)

Unless they state "Actual Shipping Charges Apply" I guess they have the right to charge what they want.  If the "shipping" charge is too high from vendor A, there is always the option to go to vendor B.


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## mredburn (Mar 14, 2012)

Some sellers/vendors, etc, think shipping needs to be a profit center and some dont.


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## Chatham PenWorks (Mar 14, 2012)

hunter-27 said:


> Unless they state "Actual Shipping Charges Apply" I guess they have the right to charge what they want.  If the "shipping" charge is too high from vendor A, there is always the option to go to vendor B.



Afraid he's right. What they charge for shipping is just that, what they charge you for shipping, not what they pay the shipper. 

As for the weight bump, I do believe the shipping companies always round up when calculating cost. So, anything from 12.1 to 13 is charged as 13.


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## Boss302 (Mar 14, 2012)

Try shipping a few things and you'll see that all the things you should charge for (i.e., shipping labels, packing materials, tape, etc.) but generally under charge for make shipping a money losing proposition for most smaller vendors.  If I think the shipping/handling charge is too high, I simply don't press the button that confirms payment.  Trying to figure out why all vendors don't ship equally is like trying to figure out why the 4 gas stations at any given intersection each have different prices for their gas.


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## shadetree_1 (Mar 15, 2012)

I know mine is usually 75 cents higher than some because I always pay for and charge for the delivery confirmation, it (delivery comp)has saved me a world of hassle a number of times, so it's on every package I ship, well worth 75 cents. And I don't do it online so I actualy pay the extra 75 cents.


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## Lucky2 (Mar 15, 2012)

When I have an item that I want to sell, I always have any handling or extra charges included in the price. Then if someone wants to purchase something from me, I charge them the same amount that I am charged by the carrier. I hate to see an extra handling charge after I've agreed to the purchase price, if this happens to me I usually try to get out of buying the item. I'm not saying that a person shouldn't get paid for their time, but I do believe that all charges other then actual shipping charges should be included in the asking price, because as I said the seller already knows that they are going to charge you for it. To me it almost seems like they under priced the item just to get the sale, then they charge handling fees to make up the price difference. Be honest, list any handling fees upfront, let the purchaser know in advance what they are being charged for. I no longer do business with people who have a handling charge, as far as I'm concerned they know in advance they are going to charge it to me and every customer that does business with them, so, IMHO it should be included in the asking price. 
Len


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## cwolfs69 (Mar 15, 2012)

Lucky2 said:
			
		

> When I have an item that I want to sell, I always have any handling or extra charges included in the price. Then if someone wants to purchase something from me, I charge them the same amount that I am charged by the carrier. I hate to see an extra handling charge after I've agreed to the purchase price, if this happens to me I usually try to get out of buying the item. I'm not saying that a person shouldn't get paid for their time, but I do believe that all charges other then actual shipping charges should be included in the asking price, because as I said the seller already knows that they are going to charge you for it. To me it almost seems like they under priced the item just to get the sale, then they charge handling fees to make up the price difference. Be honest, list any handling fees upfront, let the purchaser know in advance what they are being charged for. I no longer do business with people who have a handling charge, as far as I'm concerned they know in advance they are going to charge it to me and every customer that does business with them, so, IMHO it should be included in the asking price.
> Len



so how do you purchase any material. every vendor you buy from chardes you shipping (and handling) charges. and they are all different. that is called "business". take a look at packages you receive from vendors and compare your shipping charge paid and the postage on package.

Sent from my Galaxi via forerunner


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## PTsideshow (Mar 15, 2012)

The shipping companies always round up the weight, The other thing you have to consider is the scales that the party is using. Most statyes and locations have laws dealing with scales that are used for commerce!
Having to be checked, adjusted and certified with a sticker yearly.

Most really small operators with out a brick and mortar locations, will use any kind and type of scale they have on hand. some are older than the hills and are off a great deal. 

Most of the old and new spring scales say not for trade on the face/dial.

The postal scales they sell for home business use are approximate and used to be you would take them in to your local post office to be checked.

The analog spring type scales have a number of areas that can cause problems, from the adjustments to a dial or pointer that has been moved. 

Digital scales can be affected by air movement, dust/dirt on the platform etc.  And as been stated there is no free lunch, everything costs and adds costs in business! Just ask Ed, Smitty or any of the other vendors on this site!
:clown:


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## soligen (Mar 15, 2012)

If the price is the same as a brick and mortar store, then the handling charge is IMO pure profit.  Handling is already included in a retail price, as a real store needs to pay employees (even when there is no customer), heat, air, etc, which is going to be a lot less cost to a on-line establishment.  It is a lot more efficient to bulk process a day's worth of orders all at once than to staff a store all day.

Seems to me that a handling charge is redundant with retail markup.  I'll pay a little bit over actual shipping for the box and packing, but when I see shipping over $10 on an item that fits in a small flat rate box, I move on to another vendor.


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## SCR0LL3R (Mar 15, 2012)

I ship once or twice a week in my other business and there are a lot of costs other than the number you see on the package. Some things to think about

#1 Our website approximates shipping charges for several reasons I won't get into.
#2 There are packaging costs as stated above, such as envelopes, boxes, bubble wrap, paper, etc.
#3 It takes time to prepare and package.

But Also:

#4 It may take time, gas, a vehicle, etc. to go to the post office. In our case, we try to go to the post office when we have other errands to run, but that is not always possible since we don't want to delay a package by more than a day. The cost of making such trips exclusively to the post office burning maybe $2 in gas, putting wear on a vehicle, risking (small risk) an accident, and taking 20 minutes to mail a $10 product has to average out in us not loosing money. The accident risk is small, but one accident would eat up the entire amount of extra $ we charged on shipping over the life of our business and probably then some.


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## Monty (Mar 15, 2012)

SCR0LL3R said:


> ...But Also:
> 
> #4 It may take time, gas, a vehicle, etc. to go to the post office. In our case, we try to go to the post office when we have other errands to run, but that is not always possible since we don't want to delay a package by more than a day. The cost of making such trips exclusively to the post office burning maybe $2 in gas, putting wear on a vehicle, risking (small risk) an accident, and taking 20 minutes to mail a $10 product has to average out in us not loosing money. The accident risk is small, but one accident would eat up the entire amount of extra $ we charged on shipping over the life of our business and probably then some.


I was going to ask why don't you just have the PO pick at at your place, but then I realized you are in Canada. Here in the US, I request a pick up
from the PO just about every day. They pick up right at my door when they leave the mail.


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## OKLAHOMAN (Mar 15, 2012)

Monty said:


> SCR0LL3R said:
> 
> 
> > ...But Also:
> ...


 
The post office can  send a package pick-up van to pick up once a day if your shipping demands it.


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## bitshird (Mar 15, 2012)

soligen said:


> If the price is the same as a brick and mortar store, then the handling charge is IMO pure profit.  Handling is already included in a retail price, as a real store needs to pay employees (even when there is no customer), heat, air, etc, which is going to be a lot less cost to a on-line establishment.  It is a lot more efficient to bulk process a day's worth of orders all at once than to staff a store all day.
> 
> Seems to me that a handling charge is redundant with retail markup.  I'll pay a little bit over actual shipping for the box and packing, but when I see shipping over $10 on an item that fits in a small flat rate box, I move on to another vendor.




The bad part is the time to print the label, the packing materials, and the time to put the packages together, When you are paying an employee to do this, you either charge more for your goods, or you charge a buck or two for the other junk. at least the boxes a free from the Post office, but stuff sent first class is a whole different creature.


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## Smitty37 (Mar 15, 2012)

*Look at the bottom number*



soligen said:


> If the price is the same as a brick and mortar store, then the handling charge is IMO pure profit. Handling is already included in a retail price, as a real store needs to pay employees (even when there is no customer), heat, air, etc, which is going to be a lot less cost to a on-line establishment. It is a lot more efficient to bulk process a day's worth of orders all at once than to staff a store all day.
> 
> Seems to me that a handling charge is redundant with retail markup. I'll pay a little bit over actual shipping for the box and packing, but when I see shipping over $10 on an item that fits in a small flat rate box, I move on to another vendor.


 
If Joe sells you a bean bag for a $10 and $2.00 shipping and Jack selles you a bean bag for $11 and $1.00 shipping.  You're still paying the same price whichever you choose.


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## Smitty37 (Mar 15, 2012)

*Lots of reasons*



pens by david said:


> I thought 16oz = a pound, why is it that some vendors show on there invoice one weight ( always higher) then UPS,USPS, fedex etc show on the box when you receive it
> 
> For instance vender shows 13LBS and the shipper showed 12.2LBS.
> 
> ...


It is easy to tell you are not a vendor.  Let me give you just one example of why prices can differ.  Vendor A must drive his parcels to the post office every day say 10 miles round trip and his vehicle gets 17 mpg.  He pays $3.70 (I just paid that today) per gallon of gas. The cost to him is $2.18 per trip.  Say he is a small vendor - 4 packages per day on average.  That is $.545 shipping per package above the postage cost, assume he insures to protect against loss, that is $1.80 for the first $50 insurance.  If he's like me he has a dime in printing the postage label.  So he is now about $2.50 above postage to mail a package.

Vendor B same situation but he ships 20 packages per day and that gas cost is reduced by $.32 cents per package.

Vendor C, lives within 1/2 mile of the post office and can have his packages picked up free - drop that $.545  - he runs the risk of loss in the mail and self insures - drop that $1.80 - all other things being equal

Now on the weight, particularily FRB the weight on the box is meaningless unless it is international.  USPS First Class Parcel will show ounces but is only useable up to 13 ounces.  Other priority mail shows the next higher pound which is what you pay for.  So 12.1 pounds will show as 13 pounds and that is what the postage will be for.


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## Smitty37 (Mar 15, 2012)

*Maybe*



mredburn said:


> Some sellers/vendors, etc, think shipping needs to be a profit center and some dont.


  There are probably a few sellers left who think of shipping as a profit center (it should be, for my business it takes more work than any other aspect of the business) but for most of us small vendors it can't be.  I suspect that even most of the bigger vendors are no more than breaking even on shipping.


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## Smitty37 (Mar 15, 2012)

SCR0LL3R said:


> I ship once or twice a week in my other business and there are a lot of costs other than the number you see on the package. Some things to think about
> 
> #1 Our website approximates shipping charges for several reasons I won't get into.
> #2 There are packaging costs as stated above, such as envelopes, boxes, bubble wrap, paper, etc.
> ...


Ain't that the truth - I had a minor fender bender and my liability rider that kicks in *after* the home and auto insurance more than doubled as well as my auto insurance increasing.


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## Smitty37 (Mar 15, 2012)

*Not everyone can.*



Monty said:


> SCR0LL3R said:
> 
> 
> > ...But Also:
> ...


 I do too, but not everyone can get that service.  Where I used to live, I was a mile from the development's mail station....you have to be within half a mile to get free pickup.  Now I live about 3 tenths of a mile and get pickup every day....but I have to request it every day because I don't get delivery to the door.


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## RBcarving (Mar 15, 2012)

I usually end up taking a loss on shipping charges.  Shipping & packaging costs have skyrocketed since I began shipping on a regular basis back in 2000.  

I will agree with the others though, in regards to the "little things" that add up.  To pack an average sign or plaque, we will use 6 sheets of bubble wrap, about 3 feet of kraft paper, 16 feet of high quality packing tape, sheet of paper & ink for the invoice, half sheet postage label and a business card. (This is using the free priority mail boxes).

Now, the box is ready.  We have to drive to the PO (even though we are only a mile away)...Our office not only does not pickup, we live down a dead end road and have NO mail delivery and thus a PO Box($10/month).  Since the boxes are too heavy for the drop, they must be hand scanned by our SINGLE working postal employee.  We are also a small tourist area, so sometimes you will wait 20-30 minutes in line for your turn.

So, all that considered, We charge ACTUAL postage rate PLUS $1.85 for insurance PLUS a WHOPPING $0.65 for packaging and time.  In the real world, cost per package...we "eat" about a dollar on every package and, unfortuanately, it still costs $10 to send a 10x12 cedar plaque from MO to CA.   AND...for any Ebayers out there....Ebay now takes a percentage cut off the shipping charges as well (11%)....and dont forget Paypals 3% cut either !!

Come to think of it...Id make more money to NOT sell anything ;-)

Brad


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## Smitty37 (Mar 15, 2012)

*Yep*



RBcarving said:


> I usually end up taking a loss on shipping charges. Shipping & packaging costs have skyrocketed since I began shipping on a regular basis back in 2000.
> 
> I will agree with the others though, in regards to the "little things" that add up. To pack an average sign or plaque, we will use 6 sheets of bubble wrap, about 3 feet of kraft paper, 16 feet of high quality packing tape, sheet of paper & ink for the invoice, half sheet postage label and a business card. (This is using the free priority mail boxes).
> 
> ...


 Many smaller post offices can't offer this service and there are some "contract" mail centers especially in resort areas who don't do it either.  It's great where we can get it.


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## ed4copies (Mar 15, 2012)

We asked the Postal Service to pick up each day.

They said, fine---2 PM

We said, no---11 PM, 

Conclusion:

we drop them off at the post office at 11PM.  Most of our orders come in after 5PM!!


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## Smitty37 (Mar 15, 2012)

*Here no difference*



ed4copies said:


> We asked the Postal Service to pick up each day.
> 
> They said, fine---2 PM
> 
> ...


 Being a small town we only have one truck per day leaving the post office for the sort center and it leaves after the carriers all get back to the PO.  So dropping ours off at night wouldn't help.   We have a great carrier who makes sure that even our first class packages make the truck every day.


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## ed4copies (Mar 15, 2012)

No, even in Racine, they don't pick up the mail at the Postal Station at night.  BUT, it makes the "early truck" (mid morning) to the Milwaukee Airport and, if they are international, good chance they will make Chicago Ohare that same day.  So, out of the country in less than 24 hours---seems pretty good.


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## leehljp (Mar 15, 2012)

In my home town until recently, and in lots of small towns, the USPS will NOT deliver in town, nor pick up in town. You must go to the PO for mail and for delivery of packages. 

Believe it or not, some US Post Offices do not have the same services. Back when I lived in Japan, my home town's local PO did not offer the same boxes and packages that other post offices had, and said that they would not or could not get the packs to send international. My daughter had to drive about 20+ miles one way to get the best and safest mailings to me in Japan.

All things are not equal with every USPS office.

Some large companies refuse to send merchandise to PO Boxes, insisting on a physical address. Apple Inc is one and Amazon is, or used to be, another that would not allow box numbers in the address line. But they send lots of merchandise by USPS. So, Some local Post Offices  receive a package withOUT a box number but with a street number instead. The Local post offices sends it back to the company. Why? Because it does not have a "box" number on it, only a street address. No notices are put into the box number even when they know you in the small town. I am not the only one who lives with a post office that does this. 

All things are not equal in the US at every USPS office.


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## Smitty37 (Mar 15, 2012)

*It's always been like that*



leehljp said:


> In my home town until recently, and in lots of small towns, the USPS will NOT deliver in town, nor pick up in town. You must go to the PO for mail and for delivery of packages.
> 
> Believe it or not, some US Post Offices do not have the same services. Back when I lived in Japan, my home town's local PO did not offer the same boxes and packages that other post offices had, and said that they would not or could not get the packs to send international. My daughter had to drive about 20+ miles one way to get the best and safest mailings to me in Japan.
> 
> ...


 That goes back to even when the Post Office was run directly by the government. I grew up in such a town. You had to have a PO Box (or get your mail from "general delivery" to receive mail. On the main highway through town there were no mailboxes for 3 miles in either direction.
*edit: *In the small villiage I lived in in NY it was the same but the villiage limits were only about 1/4 to 1/2 mile from the PO.  It's a bit ironic that during last fall's floods in NY the PO suffered greatly and has been closed...the people in town now get their mail from another PO and it is delivered to their door.


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## widows son (Mar 15, 2012)

leehljp said:


> Some large companies refuse to send merchandise to PO Boxes, insisting on a physical address. Apple Inc is one and Amazon is, or used to be, another that would not allow box numbers in the address line. But they send lots of merchandise by USPS. So, Some local Post Offices  receive a package withOUT a box number but with a street number instead. The Local post offices sends it back to the company. Why? Because it does not have a "box" number on it, only a street address. No notices are put into the box number even when they know you in the small town. I am not the only one who lives with a post office that does this.
> 
> All things are not equal in the US at every USPS office.



It's our friends at the USPS that won't allow UPS and FedEx to deliver to PO Boxes. Also, shippers confuse PO Boxes and Box Numbers on Rural Routes. Amazon now uses FedEx Smart Post (USPS) for some shipments. These shipments can be delivered to PO Boxes. If the package goes Ground or Express, FedEx can't deliver it.


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## leehljp (Mar 16, 2012)

widows son said:


> It's our friends at the USPS that won't allow UPS and FedEx to deliver to PO Boxes. Also, shippers confuse PO Boxes and Box Numbers on Rural Routes. Amazon now uses FedEx Smart Post (USPS) for some shipments. These shipments can be delivered to PO Boxes. If the package goes Ground or Express, FedEx can't deliver it.



Bringing what you wrote (and what Smitty also wrote) back into context of the OP - the price of shipping/postage charges can not be assumed to be equal throughout the land. Sure, there may be a few that take advantage of the situation to get every penny they can, but in my experience, people (vendors) here are very generous as a group and do not take advantage of others overall. When someone does take advantage of others for two or three time, it seems to come out.


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## Smitty37 (Mar 16, 2012)

*Fed Law*



widows son said:


> leehljp said:
> 
> 
> > Some large companies refuse to send merchandise to PO Boxes, insisting on a physical address. Apple Inc is one and Amazon is, or used to be, another that would not allow box numbers in the address line. But they send lots of merchandise by USPS. So, Some local Post Offices receive a package withOUT a box number but with a street number instead. The Local post offices sends it back to the company. Why? Because it does not have a "box" number on it, only a street address. No notices are put into the box number even when they know you in the small town. I am not the only one who lives with a post office that does this.
> ...


 I think that is a Federal Law, not the post office per se.  It was put in place more to keep your newspaper delivery person from putting your paper in the mail box - even on Sunday when there is no mail delivery.  It goes back a long time.  And, even though you own the box, it is still the law and you can't even put up a second box (if it looks like a mail box) for other deliveries.


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## pens by david (Mar 17, 2012)

I want to thank all who had a thought on the subject, I have been shipping parcels, and letters all over the world for years and have had the same comments as in my OP ,so I wanted to see what you all had to say  about the subject.

I totally agree with all of you ....It seems like about every 6 months I get someone who wants to tell me I am making a fortune on postage HA. 

My brother has a farm parts business ,You want to talk about cost of shipping.. He charges 15% on top of cost of shipping just to get it out the door and that does  not cover the wood to crate the product.

Any way thanks for all the input, I love the IAP ,great folks on it.

David  in beautiful Coeur D Alene,Idaho

"In CHRIST all things are possible."


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## Daniel (Mar 17, 2012)

Not saying that no one makes money on shipping charges. But in the US it is illegal. If audited you must be able to show that yoru actual cost of shipping was within 15% of what you charged. Of course you can include anything in teh cost of shipping from the actual postage to the receptionist and her box of Bon Bon's if you want. Legitimately there are actually quite a few extras that are perfectly legitimate extra costs. Packing materisl of any kind are not cheap, not even tape. it requires labor to put items in boxes. tape them up and label them. It even costs for the square footage of floor space that your package sets on until the post man arrives and most business owners can tell you exactly how much it costs to the penny. Since most people don't work very efficiently in the dark so lights have to be turned on and they cost money. the building is likely to be heated and that costs money. Yes all those costs can legitimately be added. They can even charge you for the space in there building that the shipping counter costs them for the 5 minutes or so that it took to process your order. So even the over the top charters can pretty well justify anything they claim to be shipping costs. And who is anyone to say they are nto costs or that a busines should not charge customers what the product cost to ship. It is actually in the best interest of a business to keep shipping charges as low as possible though. shipping charges are a common reason a person chooses not to place an order in the first place.

I have had a nightmare this week with orders. three of three have come in wrong or missing items. one was delivered as a completely empty box stamped "Received without contents". Now how the heck do you lose a 25 lb bag of fertilizer?


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## MesquiteMan (Mar 17, 2012)

Daniel said:


> Not saying that no one makes money on shipping charges. But in the US it is illegal. If audited you must be able to show that yoru actual cost of shipping was within 15% of what you charged.



Daniel,

Can you provide any links to back this up?  I am not accusing you of misinformation, I am just looking for the information.  I did a Google search and the only thing I found is that it is illegal to overcharge for USPS Insurance but found nothing regarding charging whatever you want for shipping.  Thanks.


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## pens by david (Mar 17, 2012)

Daniel,

Just asked my neighbor about USPS law and he has not heard of it ,can you give more info?

David

Hey Curtis

Have not been back to you sorry, have had Cancer surgery been laid up for last month, haven`t forgotten you.....


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## Smitty37 (Mar 17, 2012)

*Look here*



MesquiteMan said:


> Daniel said:
> 
> 
> > Not saying that no one makes money on shipping charges. But in the US it is illegal. If audited you must be able to show that yoru actual cost of shipping was within 15% of what you charged.
> ...


 Google Columbia House Class Action Lawsuit shipping and you turn up something. 

It starts....In 1997 a lawsuit was filed against Columbia House claiming that Columbia House did not explain adequately "shipping and handling" charges to new members. 

Columbia settled in 2002 for 5.2 million dollars. I could not find a reference to any law or regulation....and it seems that the wording of the advertising was at fault more than anything else. The way the advertisements were worded leads me to believe that their might be some state laws prohibiting charging S & H. 

I also cant imagine what kind of "audit" he might be talking about. Certainly not a tax audit....the IRS is not in the business of enforcing laws or regulations regarding advertising. And, quite frankly they don't much care where the income comes from as long as it's reported correctly.


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## widows son (Mar 17, 2012)

*Shipping and Handling*



MesquiteMan said:


> Daniel said:
> 
> 
> > Not saying that no one makes money on shipping charges. But in the US it is illegal. If audited you must be able to show that yoru actual cost of shipping was within 15% of what you charged.
> ...



Curtis,

Shipping and Handling must be two separate charges. I work for FedEx and remember when in the late '90's when the law took effect. The test is that the shipping charges should "reasonable". Handling charges cannot include carrier transportation charges.


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## Smitty37 (Mar 18, 2012)

*For whom*



widows son said:


> MesquiteMan said:
> 
> 
> > Daniel said:
> ...


 I have in my hands right now a bill from Uline who does virtually all of their business by catalog purchase.  One box is marked "Frt/handling" and there is one entry in the box....many on line companies (large and small) still seem to quote "shipping and handling" and do not list the charges separately so I'm not sure who that law applies to.


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## MesquiteMan (Mar 18, 2012)

widows son said:


> Curtis,
> 
> Shipping and Handling must be two separate charges. I work for FedEx and remember when in the late '90's when the law took effect. The test is that the shipping charges should "reasonable". Handling charges cannot include carrier transportation charges.



As a requested from Daniel...can you provide ANY kind of links or documentation to back this up?  I have been searching Google for a couple of hours to no avail and I am REALLY good at Google searches!

I did find a pretty good presentation from the Direct Marketing Association regarding this issue.  It does not mention ANY type of US law regarding this but does talk about lawsuits for deceptive trade, etc.  Of course, lawsuits and US Law or being illegal to do something are 2 completely different animals.

For anyone who is interested, here is a link to the presentation.  I found it quite interesting.

LEGAL RISKS AND ETHICAL OBLIGATIONS IN
SETTING SHIPPING AND HANDLING CHARGES
A Direct Marketing Association Tele-seminar
January 18, 2006


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## Daniel (Mar 18, 2012)

I found this from Guidance for Estimating and Substantiating Shipping Costs.
Direct Costs 		 			

 Common Carrier Costs
 Land Delivery Costs
 Express Delivery Costs
 Extra Heavy Package Costs
 Packaging Materials
 Direct Labor Costs
 Other Special Handling
 		 	 	 		Semi-Direct Costs 		 			

 Warehousing
 Insurance for Assured Delivery, Loss, Damage
 Rent
 Returns Processing
 Inbound Call Center Costs for Processing Returns
 Depreciation of Distribution Center Equipment
 Distribution Center Rent
 Cost for Outsourcing Fulfillment
 Overhead Costs, Conservatively Allocated
 		 	 	 		Indirect Costs 		 			

 General & Administrative Expenses
 Inventory Carrying Costs
 Item Replacement Costs
 Aggressive Fixed Overhead Allocation

Quite a list from a business guidance type source. They do mention there are legal issues in regard to substantiating shipping costs but do nto provide any details as the laws. I do know you can be required to but as I said before you can include quite a few things. I hadn't thought of the cost of replacing the item you just sold for example. THis is a link to the page I found, it took me less than 2 minutes to find this. I am still looking for something more relevant to the laws concerning it.
Guidance for Establishing and Substantiating Shipping and Handling Charges


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## Daniel (Mar 18, 2012)

I cannot find it but that is mainly because it is somewhere in the maze of government wed sites. Calling it a law may be part of the problem. I beleive it falls more under the federal trade commission and all of it's "Rules and Regulations" In short the FTC has the power to just make a 'Rule" and then enforce it. So far all I have been able to find is cases or information that items are shipped within 30 days etc.

I did find this which seems to indicate the rules or regulations fall under far trade practices rather than any specific rule addressing shipping fees.
http://www.brannlaw.com/images/MediaAndPublications/79/Shipping_Handling.pdf

Think more along the line of deceptive behavior being prohibited.


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## SDB777 (Mar 18, 2012)

The scale I use for shipping is junk, usually weighs on the heavy side.  Then again it doesn't matter what the weight is since I generally use nothing but USPS Flat Rate PriortyMail boxes(as long as I don't exceed their weight limits-it's all good).

In fact, only parcels going overseas from here require a weight, and I let the USPS folks apply that to the box.





Scott (don't forget vendor "C"...that's me) B


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## Smitty37 (Mar 18, 2012)

*My opinion*

I'm of the opinion that only those large (hundreds of thousands of customers) vendors are in any danger of being sued. Those of us selling here can pretty much charge whatever the market will bear. 

Since the vast majority of members here are capable of adding a couple of numbers, and smart enough to know that their cost is what they write the check for not what the "price" says, what the market will bear is usually somewhat less than the actual cost.
I sell most items with shipping included in the price - some I don't because the purchase is for multiple items and it is better for the customer that I make a separate charge because the cost of shipping 2 or 3 is the same as the cost of shipping 1.

Shipping (even not including packaging) to me is the highest cost of doing business other than the actual purchase of goods sold. More than PayPal fees and more than eBay fees when I sold there. And, that is even though I include shipping from my supplier to me as a 'cost of goods sold' and include that in the price.


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