# Glass in acrylic?



## PWAPEN

Anyone tried putting glass in blanks? Im thinking of using beach glass. Would it break apart when turning? Have to be sanded and not cut with a tool? Carbide tip tool do the job? Thanks for your input.


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## yorkie

That sounds amazing!  I say try it and see if it works.  You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. 

Razor sharp tools and just go for it at the highest speed.

If it works out let me know, I'll buy some of those blanks from you.


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## ed4copies

PWAPEN said:


> Anyone tried putting glass in blanks?
> Yes, glass rods, imbedded in PR and set up so they would NOT be hit with any turning tools
> 
> Im thinking of using beach glass. Would it break apart when turning?
> Would you mount a coca-cola bottle on the lathe and start turning?
> 
> Have to be sanded and not cut with a tool?
> If it's sanded, will it get hot?  If it gets hot, will it fracture?
> 
> Carbide tip tool do the job?
> I'll leave this one alone--you can try if you like.
> 
> Thanks for your input.



My most important input:  WEAR A MASK!@!!  If you hit a piece of glass that is spinning over 2000 rpm, it is likely to shatter and fly.  Glass in the face won't do GOOD things.


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## wolftat

PWAPEN said:


> Anyone tried putting glass in blanks? Im thinking of using beach glass. Would it break apart when turning? Have to be sanded and not cut with a tool? Carbide tip tool do the job? Thanks for your input.


 As one who would normally take a risk and try anything, I would probably think twice on this one. The probability of injury is too high and I don't care what type of tool you are using, if you hit a piece of glass with it turning you are going to have a very quick glass shard storm.

That being said, if you make the blanks, send me one and I will give it a shot.


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## Russianwolf

I've been playing with different types of glass and turning for a while. (Dawn and I have had hours of conversations on some of this)

One experiment I did was to fuse some glass around a Fine Silver Ring and then put it on the lather to "even" it out. 

A Carbide tool works, BUT you have to take such fine cuts that its impossible to do by hand. Sanding works but takes forever (most people working with glass use water or oil cooled diamond abrasives for a reason. Ready to invest in a whole other line of tooling?)

So far I haven't been able to get anything to work really. 

Glass under resin. As Ed says, needs to be lower than the smallest diameter or you will have a problem when you hit it. glass tends to be fragile for some reason. :bulgy-eyes:

I have another idea on my bench right now, but its weeks from completion.

Now I do have some nice powdered and near powdered glass that I could glue to a tube and cast, but you likely wouldn't think much of the effect. Tried casting it in a swirl like pearlex too, but it's too heavy and settles too quickly (may try that in Alumilite though).

Not saying don't try it, just expect it to fight you every step of the way.


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## BradG

cringeworthy idea... im all for trying new things.... but with this i think id only do it using CCTV cameras pointing at my lathe and remote controls so i can control it from another room ... either that or one of those bomb technician suits


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## NewLondon88

yorkie said:


> That sounds amazing!  I say try it and see if it works.  You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.



That applies to Russian Roulette, too :tongue:

Glass doesn't 'cut'. It fractures. 
I'd beef up any and all safety procedures before trying this.
Gloves, full face shield, respirator (breathing glass dust would
kinda suck) long sleeves (yes, really) and a thick leather apron.

Then again.. I don't think I'd try it myself.


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## Russianwolf

Thought of something I saw recently.....

Glass blowing lathe - 6 hole dome perc. - YouTube

You most definitely can turn glass on the lathe, just need different turning tools. :tongue:


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## Ed McDonnell

If you really want to work with glass exposed in a pen blank, you might do some research on techniques for working with vitreous enamels (aka glass fused to metal).  You might be able to get reasonable (but not gallery quality) results without spending a fortune on tools if you have glass pieces that are already close to the right size and shape.  I suspect most of the work (grinding with diamond files) would be done with the lathe turned off and involve mega upper body workouts.

Ed


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## Russianwolf

parklandturner said:


> If you really want to work with glass exposed in a pen blank, you might do some research on techniques for working with vitreous enamels (aka glass fused to metal).  You might be able to get reasonable (but not gallery quality) results without spending a fortune on tools if you have glass pieces that are already close to the right size and shape.  I suspect most of the work (grinding with diamond files) would be done with the lathe turned off and involve mega upper body workouts.
> 
> Ed



SHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

I'm working on it. 

Enamels actually come powdered, so size and shape isn't a problem really. 

Problem is actually the metal (can only use Fine silver and PURE copper, Our brass tubes don't even come close to working) and getting an even coat (tends to want to sag on a round item)


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## BradG

Russianwolf said:


> SHHHHHHH!!!!!!!
> 
> I'm working on it.
> 
> Enamels actually come powdered, so size and shape isn't a problem really.
> 
> Problem is actually the metal (can only use Fine silver and PURE copper, Our brass tubes don't even come close to working) and getting an even coat (tends to want to sag on a round item)


 
send me your brass tubes, and I will return them to you in pure copper :wink:


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## snyiper

Isnt that one of the first steps to chrome something?


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## BradG

Glenn you can chrome straight onto brass when tank plating being as its a copper alloy.. though if brush plating you are best to nickel plate first to prevent bleed. With steels or aluminium you would need to nickel plate first, before you could copper plate.

with brass tubes you could just use pure copper anodes, making your part cathodic in copper sulphate electrolyte.


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## Russianwolf

Thanks for the offer Brad. I may ask you to do that in the future to see if it'll work. 

I'm not sure of the reason that only those metals are recommended (and one other call Gilder's brass (95%copper and 5% zinc, which our tubes aren't) and of course Gold which I won't go there). It may be due to the rate of expansion for the pure metals being low enough to not crack the glass once its fused onto the metal. Not sure if a coating of one of the allowable metals on top of our brass will work, but I'm actually putting a layer (thicker than a plating) of fine silver on one now to try that.


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## BradG

it needs to be a zinc based alloy in order for the enamel to stick. whatever your metal you can always zincate it. coppers pretty much universal however. not much won't stick to pure copper.

let us know how you get on  I've considered giving this a god for filling in etching as suggested by Ed in the past.


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## Ed McDonnell

BradG said:


> it needs to be a zinc based alloy in order for the enamel to stick. whatever your metal you can always zincate it. coppers pretty much universal however. not much won't stick to pure copper.
> 
> let us know how you get on  I've considered giving this a god for filling in etching as suggested by Ed in the past.



Actually, if your metal has zinc it will likely cause the enamel to end up with pits and bubbles.  The gilders metal (5% zinc) can only take a few firings before the zinc starts to cause problems.  Plated metals would likely be nothing but trouble.  Copper is a pain in the backside to machine (at least for me), so making custom tubes or pen parts out of machined copper isn't in my future.  

There is always copper clay, but you can apply enamel to low carbon steel and iron.  Stainless steel also.  You just need to use the right enamels.  I was even reading where somebody enameled aluminum using special low temp high expansion enamels.  That sounds exactly like what you might want to try Brad.  

You don't have to be limited by the brass tubes in a kit Mike.

Ed


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## BradG

Interesting info Ed, thanks for posting. il take a look into this high expansion enamel


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## Russianwolf

parklandturner said:


> You don't have to be limited by the brass tubes in a kit Mike.
> 
> Ed



Oh I know, but trying to find a solution that will work for others easily as well.


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## Waluy

If you go the enamel route under resin you could make it with a copper tube like in this tutorial for enameled copper beads. 
Easy Enameling: Make Enameled Copper-Tube Beads - Jewelry Making Daily - Jewelry Making Daily

I have done it before with some jewelry I made and it doesn't require anything extra other than a torch and some copper tubing in the right size. The way I envision it would be make the "bead" put that in a mold and cast the resin around it. I would try it but I have never cast anything and will be waiting until I am more comfortable with the basics before I try adding more.


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## PTsideshow

The truth is you can enamel just about any metal of the silver, gold, copper, steel, bronzes, aluminum brass types and of course cast iron. The trick is in the enamel make up it self, plus the binding agent, and of course the temp used to melt the enamel and length of time in the kiln.

Cooking pots called enamel ware either in white with red or blue trim, or the infamous blue ground pots with white spots or flecks also sold under a number of generic trade names stone ware, blue enamel ware etc.

The most famous items of the cast iron stuff are the old style cast iron claw foot bathtubs of yore.

Brass items are done in India and China.  The use of brass is only if it is very high in copper and low in zinc.  The temperature must be accurately controlled or the zinc tends to bleed out of the metal and the enamel will not  stick to it, but tends to pop off the base metal.   Jewelry and decorative items, made up of thin brass wires soldered to a non-brass base forming cells, that are then filled in. It is called Cloisonné the brass wires are held in place by the enamel.

If you care to some of the better books are
The art of enameling, by Linda Darty
Cloisonné Enameling and Jewelry Making by Felica Liban &Louise Mitchell

And the two original masters works.
Enameling by Kenneth F Bates
Enameling on metal by Oppi Untracht

The materials and techniques have improved vastly in the last 45 years since I did my first ash tray. They have enamels that you can use with Mapp torches and a wide assortment of low temp lead free enamels.

The gilding metal that has been mentioned has a melting point of 1935°F/1057°C so the flow temp of the enamel should be well below that.
:clown:


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## BradG

now thats a mine of information, thanks for taking the time to post!


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## PTsideshow

Here is some interesting pen photo's of some cloisonné work  if you want the depth and breath of the type of items just google and scroll down to photo's.
















this photo is placing the wires on the base, as a side note the wires have to be drawn to the size and shape by the artist since they are limited availability commercially. 

The one photo is from a reseller in the US called hisnibs. Cloisonne Some as he states are not high end cloisonne pens.
The other two are from penhero.com  Here is a very good description of how one company does the process. Understand whether it is a low end item or a high end all the steps are the same.PenHero.com - PenGallery - Élysée Cloisonné
Enjoy

And If you use pierced metal forms that is another style and name. Along with using etch cells or pockets is also another named style most are French names and I will not try to spell them. Wiki for cloisonné should list them all.

There is a faux cloisonné using colored resins.
:clown:


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## mywoodshopca

PWAPEN said:


> Anyone tried putting glass in blanks? Im thinking of using beach glass. Would it break apart when turning? Have to be sanded and not cut with a tool? Carbide tip tool do the job? Thanks for your input.


 

I thought about that a few years ago but quickly gave up on the idea.. It may work as a final in a bottle stopper..We have a few large bags of seaglass from a few years collecting.. Helps growing up where there was over 300 recorded shipwrecks within the last 100 years lol


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