# Ok, now what...



## Aces-High (Nov 21, 2020)

Picked this up my local Craig's list for $350.  Any suggestions for the basics I will need for kitless would be appreciated. 

Jason


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## EricRN (Nov 21, 2020)

Looks like you got a good deal.  How much does one of those run new?


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## Mortalis (Nov 21, 2020)

EricRN said:


> Looks like you got a good deal.  How much does one of those run new?


Curiosity had me looking around and all I could find were "bulk" buy sites. One site I saw would sell them at $600 ea but had to purchase 3.


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## skiprat (Nov 21, 2020)

Step one is to learn that machines and your capabilities. Practice sharpening the bits to get a decent finish on various materials. Understand how to use the gears.  The ratios listed on the cover are just the common ones.
Taps and dies will always be easiest for threading but learn how to do external threads on various materials.
Small internal threads can be a pretty advanced job for a novice and even most pros will use a tap if possible.
Don’t be offended but the best way to learn is from your own triumphs and mistakes.
You guys have a phrase....Have at it...


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## magpens (Nov 21, 2020)

Congratulations !! . That lathe is in VERY good condition and I would unreservedly say that you got a bargain.

This lathe looks like it is probably a Sieg lathe (no name on outside, but probably on the printed circuit board inside).
Looks like it has a 3-jaw 4" chuck. ... That is very good, but a 4-jaw 4" chuck could be better ... keep it in mind for the future.
I have had my Sieg for over 10 years and it is still going strong.

First thing you need will be a couple of carbide cutting tools.

Contact .... rherrell .... (username on IAP) and ask him to make for you.

I recommend a round cutting tool (11 mm round cutter) on a 5/16" square "rod" holder (most suitable for the tool post on your lathe, I would think, but 3/8" might also work). . I have been using such a cutting tool made by him for 10 yrs. . The 11 mm round cutters can be bought from Global Tooling and I have ordered from them ( rherrell might not have any in stock). . I have been extremely happy with these. . They stay sharp almost forever.

So that will get you "doing something".

I do NOT recommend the triangular cutters that you can buy from general machine tool suppliers. . I think I see one of these (blue) on your lathe now.

One other thing you will need .... right from the start .... is a live center for the tailstock.

Soon you will find useful a "live" Jacobs chuck for the tailstock.

Start browsing the .... LittleMachineShop.com .... website.

Oh, couple of other things you will need are ... extra tool post and tool holders ... be careful what you buy cuz not all will fit ... plus parting tool blade

Contact me if you want to know more.


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## Aces-High (Nov 21, 2020)

magpens said:


> Congratulations !! . That lathe is in VERY good condition and I would unreservedly say that you got a bargain.
> 
> This lathe looks like it is probably a Sieg lathe (no name on outside, but probably on the printed circuit board inside).
> Looks like it has a 3-jaw 4" chuck. ... That is very good, but a 4-jaw 4" chuck could be better ... keep it in mind for the future.
> ...


Do you have a good way of getting the cutting tool up to center?  When I square the end it leaves a bump.  I have just been using scrap segmenting bits to get it up.


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## Penultimate (Nov 21, 2020)

One way is to keep facing the end and raising the cutter until the nub is gone. Another way is to put a steel rule against the diameter of the stock and slide your tool against the rule. If the rule slants then you are off center. Adjust until the rule is perpendicular to the lathe bed. 


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## magpens (Nov 21, 2020)

Aces-High said:


> Do you have a good way of getting the cutting tool up to center?  When I square the end it leaves a bump.  I have just been using scrap segmenting bits to get it up.



I use metal shims of well-defined thickness. . I use these to get the cutting tool edge up to center.
It is good to have a variety of thicknesses. . Some fairly thick ones you can make from steel stock ... 1/16", 1/8". . And some quite thin, which you can buy as a set from a machine tool store .... they might be called "Feeler Gauges" and will be 0.0015" thickness and up; you probably won't use the thinnest of these, but the ones in the 0.010" to 0.040" thickness are very handy.

There is an alternative to doing this, but it is a rather "dicey" approach in my opinion. . You can buy a tool post which has quick-change side pieces. . Some models give you side pieces which offer variable height. . They work up to a point but are a little difficult to adjust to accurate height. . The height adjustment is rather coarse and consists of a vertical screw which you adjust and tighten with a wrench, which is why I call it "dicey" ... it is not very accurate. . Shop around and browse at LittleMachineShop, but be careful what you buy ... I can advise to a limited degree.

By putting a slight tilt on your tool bit (use a shim at one end) you can get it so that it passes through the axis of your lathe when you use the cross-feed. . This will allow you to square your ends right to the center without leaving a bump. . I am not a machinist so I cannot vouch for this being an "approved" method.

One solution for pens (which require axial holes for most work) is to drill the hole (either partially or completely) first. . Then, when you do the squaring operation it does not matter if your tool bit passes exactly through center or not. . A little bit off is OK.

Of course, to drill the hole, it is best to already have a squared end .... but a "slightly" off square end is sometimes OK for drilling.
Not an ideal answer, I know.

Best solution is to accurately shim your tool bit up to height and then NEVER take the tool bit out. . Takes time to do the shimming.
This is one reason for having multiple tool  holders.


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## jalbert (Nov 21, 2020)

Quick change tool post. It’s one of the best upgrades you can make, and it will solve your issues with centering the tool.

as far as tooling goes, I like both indexable carbide insert tools and standard hss tool bits that I grind.
Most important thing though? I would agree with skiprat and say to learn how to use the lathe completely. It will pay massive dividends (not to mention save you a ton of money) if you take the time to learn how to single point thread.


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## Aces-High (Nov 22, 2020)

Penultimate said:


> One way is to keep facing the end and raising the cutter until the nub is gone. Another way is to put a steel rule against the diameter of the stock and slide your tool against the rule. If the rule slants then you are off center. Adjust until the rule is perpendicular to the lathe bed.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Penturners.org mobile app


I have no idea what a “rule” is.


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## Aces-High (Nov 22, 2020)

Mortalis said:


> Curiosity had me looking around and all I could find were "bulk" buy sites. One site I saw would sell them at $600 ea but had to purchase 3.


The guy I bought it from said he paid around $700 for it, used it once and is now moving and didn’t want it.


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## Aces-High (Nov 22, 2020)

I would appreciate any sites you guys buy this stuff from as well.


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## Jarod888 (Nov 22, 2020)

Aces-High said:


> I have no idea what a “rule” is.


A rule is a metal ruler. Machinist rules are steel. On one side they are stamped or laser etched in traditional increments, 16th, 32nds, 64ths. On the other side the are etched in tens; not to be confused with a tenth, which is 1 10,000th of an inch, but rather 1, 10th of an inch and then also down to 1, 100rdth of an inch. They are for rough measurements only. Otherwise you would use a dial caliper for most things, or a  micrometer for super accuracy. Machinist measurements are typically 1 - 1000th. For example 1/4 of an inch would be 250ths (250, 1000ths (.250)). Tenths are much smaller. In pen making, there is no need to be accurate to a tenth, in fact most Chinese lathes are only accurate down to 3 thou (3 thousandths of an inch) or less than the width of a human hair. 

Now, an old Hardinge toolroom lathe could easily be accurate within a couple of tenths, but you would also probably be paying about 30000 for one, a wee bit different than 300.


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## jalbert (Nov 22, 2020)

Aces-High said:


> I would appreciate any sites you guys buy this stuff from as well.


This “should” be the tool post set you need. This is what I got for my grizzly 7x14









						0XA Quick Change Tool Post | Quick Change Tool Post Set
					

This quick change tool post set is designed for lathes with up to 8" swing. Find this 0XA quick change tool post set online at LittleMachineShop.com.




					littlemachineshop.com
				




I use something similar to this as far as indexable tools go. I would replace the inserts with ones made for milling aluminum (they are sharp and leave a nice finish on plastics. I’d just google them)









						Carbide Indexable Turning Tool 3/8" 7 pc Lathe Tool Bit Set Thread Insert+Holder  | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Carbide Indexable Turning Tool 3/8" 7 pc Lathe Tool Bit Set Thread Insert+Holder at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com
				




I like these for delicate internal work:








						Micro 100 BB-1801500, 1/4 x 2-1/2 RH Carbide Boring Bar  | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Micro 100 BB-1801500, 1/4 x 2-1/2 RH Carbide Boring Bar at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com
				




and these for heavier boring:









						5/16 X 4" SHANK S-SCLCR4-2 INDEXABLE BORING BAR WITH INSERT (1001-0025)  | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 5/16 X 4" SHANK S-SCLCR4-2 INDEXABLE BORING BAR WITH INSERT (1001-0025) at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com


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## magpens (Nov 22, 2020)

@jalbert 

These specific item references are very helpful for all of us, John. . Thank you for posting them.


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## Penultimate (Nov 22, 2020)

Aces-High said:


> I have no idea what a “rule” is.



Sorry, I meant steel ruler, (aka scale). I have a thin ruler that works well for this. 


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## sbwertz (Nov 22, 2020)

Cool.  I really need to use my metal lathe, or get rid of it.  It is a South Bend 9" that I inherited from my grandfather, and used as a wood lathe until I got my real wood lathes.  It is as big as a volkswagon and takes up a huge hunk of room.


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## Jarod888 (Nov 22, 2020)

sbwertz said:


> Cool.  I really need to use my metal lathe, or get rid of it.  It is a South Bend 9" that I inherited from my grandfather, and used as a wood lathe until I got my real wood lathes.  It is as big as a volkswagon and takes up a huge hunk of room.


I'm sure you wont have any issues getting rid of it. People are desperate to find old iron like this. Depending on the features, etc., you could be looking at getting over 1k if you sell it.

More desirable features are a longer bed length, quick change gearbox and all the gears included for cutting threads.


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## howsitwork (Nov 22, 2020)

sbwertz said:


> a volkswagon


Other desirable bits are a taper turning attachment ( on the back of the bed ) , milling vertical slide and  a quick change tool post.


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## sbwertz (Nov 22, 2020)

I have a bunch of collets for it, It is a South Bend 9A if I remember correctly.  Sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread!


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## Jarod888 (Nov 22, 2020)

No worries, sbwertz. I'm sure you will be able to find it a new home when you are ready. 
Ive been on the lookout for a metal lathe for some time. Phoenix is a long way away.  Also, I dont really have the funds right now.  Good luck when / if you decide to sell it.


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## bmachin (Nov 22, 2020)

Nothing at all to do with pen making, but if you are interested in learning to use a metal lathe from a hobby shop machinist point of view, take a look here and follow the lathe skills playlist:









						Blondihacks
					

The Blondihacks Channel features projects and educational videos by Quinn Dunki, covering topics ranging from electronics, home-brew computing, machine shop ...




					www.youtube.com
				




Quinn's videos are down to earth, informative, and show her mistakes and failures as well as her successes. Well worth your time.

Bill


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## sbwertz (Nov 22, 2020)

Thanks, Bill.


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## Pierre--- (Nov 25, 2020)

All this is fine, but I do think there is two things to get before everything else, that is a pencil and a paper, to draw the pen.  No kidding.


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## magpens (Nov 25, 2020)

@Pierre--- 

Make that three things ..... an eraser HAS to be included !!!


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## Pierre--- (Nov 25, 2020)

Sure! One always forget something essential...


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## Aces-High (Dec 5, 2020)

Ok, one of the things I am asking for for Christmas is a 4 jaw chuck.  I know i want one with independent jaws, but my issue is which do I get.  Will I need a faceplate adapter?  What came with the lather is a 80mm/3” 3 jaw chuck.  I look at LMS and I get a bit confused.  Thanks for the help...


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## magpens (Dec 5, 2020)

The main reason that I recommended a 4-inch 4-jaw chuck is to get the throat diameter that you need to "swallow" round blanks of up to about 0.85" diameter for squaring the ends and for drilling. . What I had in mind was a 4-jaw self-centering. . A 4-inch 3-jaw would also serve but the 4-jaw could arguably give you more flexibility. . I often rely on the 4 jaws as convenient indicators of angular position ( 4 x 90 degrees ) rather than "mucking" around with the 3 jaws ( 3 x 120 degrees ).

I personally do not have any use (that I know of) for a 4-jaw independent, although I can fully understand the need for such if you are, for example, facing some irregularly shaped flatwork piece. . Could be useful also, for example, in drilling a hole during the fabrication of a clip before it is bent.
But that latter job can be done with a self-centering chuck also if the preceding preparation has been done.

Bear in mind that getting a 4-jaw independent set up accurately can be a "bear" of a job until you become adept at it.


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## Aces-High (Dec 5, 2020)

magpens said:


> The main reason that I recommended a 4-inch 4-jaw chuck is to get the throat diameter that you need to "swallow" round blanks of up to about 0.85" diameter for squaring the ends and for drilling. . What I had in mind was a 4-jaw self-centering. . A 4-inch 3-jaw would also serve but the 4-jaw could arguably give you more flexibility. . I often rely on the 4 jaws as convenient indicators of angular position ( 4 x 90 degrees ) rather than "mucking" around with the 3 jaws ( 3 x 120 degrees ).
> 
> I personally do not have any use (that I know of) for a 4-jaw independent, although I can fully understand the need for such if you are, for example, facing some irregularly shaped flatwork piece. . Could be useful also, for example, in drilling a hole during the fabrication of a clip before it is bent.
> But that latter job can be done with a self-centering chuck also if the preceding preparation has been done.
> ...



I know that the independent is harder, but I have other reasons as well for getting it.

My overall question was about fitting the new chuck to my lathe.   Will all 4" chucks fit without an adapter?   It came with a 4", I think I may have said 3" before.


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## jalbert (Dec 5, 2020)

Aces-High said:


> I know that the independent is harder, but I have other reasons as well for getting it.
> 
> My overall question was about fitting the new chuck to my lathe.   Will all 4" chucks fit without an adapter?   It came with a 4", I think I may have said 3" before.


I think your mounting plate “should “ have the appropriate bolt pattern in it for any 4” chuck. Best way to find out would be to remove the chuck from the mounting plate and see what holes you have in it.


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## Aces-High (Dec 5, 2020)

magpens said:


> The main reason that I recommended a 4-inch 4-jaw chuck is to get the throat diameter that you need to "swallow" round blanks of up to about 0.85" diameter for squaring the ends and for drilling. . What I had in mind was a 4-jaw self-centering. . A 4-inch 3-jaw would also serve but the 4-jaw could arguably give you more flexibility. . I often rely on the 4 jaws as convenient indicators of angular position ( 4 x 90 degrees ) rather than "mucking" around with the 3 jaws ( 3 x 120 degrees ).
> 
> I personally do not have any use (that I know of) for a 4-jaw independent, although I can fully understand the need for such if you are, for example, facing some irregularly shaped flatwork piece. . Could be useful also, for example, in drilling a hole during the fabrication of a clip before it is bent.
> But that latter job can be done with a self-centering chuck also if the preceding preparation has been done.
> ...



I know that the independent is harder, but I have other reasons as well for getting it.

My overall question was about fitting the new chuck to my lathe.   Will all 4" chucks fit without an adapter?   It came with a 4", I think I may have said 3" before.


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## magpens (Dec 5, 2020)

OK, understood.

Your lathe spindle should end in a plate to which you attach your chuck with bolts that go through the plate and thread into the back of the chuck.

Remove your present chuck and check for an array of bolt holes on the spindle plate.

Then make sure that the chuck you buy has a matching set of threaded holes to receive the bolts.

LMS should be able to provide the necessary info for the mounting of the chuck, the spacing of the holes, etc.

EDIT :- I said "bolts" above, but they might actually be threaded studs so that the tightening is done by nuts on the headstock side of the plate.
I don't think you should need to buy an adaptor plate. . Your lathe appears to be quite standard, and probably a chuck from LMS will fit.
But you have to verify that for yourself. . Also buy some extra studs and nuts while you are at it.

The plate on your spindle has holes spaced uniformly around a circle of diameter "D" .... use calipers to measure "D". . Call LMS to get matching chuck


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## More4dan (Dec 5, 2020)

Check with LMS. 4” chucks usually require an adapter plate to mount to the 7” lathes. The 3” 4 jaw independent chuck will pass the maximum diameter through the headstock. What I’ve found to be most useful is a ER32 collet chuck that bolts to the 80mm flange. 









						[US$61.99 17% OFF] 80mm Diameter ER-32 Collet Chuck Compact Lathe Tight Tolerance CNC Collect Chuck Machine Tools & Accessories from Tools on banggood.com
					

80mm Diameter ER-32 Collet Chuck (3901-5032) Compact Lathe Tight Tolerance CNC Collect Chuck




					m.banggood.com
				




$56. 

And a set of Metric collets 2mm-20mm. 









						[US$65.99 28% OFF] 19pcs ER32 2-20mm Spring Collet Collet Chuck Set for CNC Milling Lathe Tool Machine Tools & Accessories from Tools on banggood.com
					

19pcs ER32 2-20mm Spring Collet Set for CNC Milling Lathe Tool




					m.banggood.com
				




I rarely use my chucks on my metal lathe since I started using the ER32 collets. 

Danny



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## magpens (Dec 5, 2020)

From Danny - "Check with LMS. 4” chucks usually require an adapter plate to mount to the 7” lathes."

I guess I have forgotten that. . It has been several years since I swapped chucks the last time.

EDIT :- Yes, indeed ! . Just went to the shop and checked .... there is a plate between the chuck and spindle plate.


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## magpens (Dec 6, 2020)

@Aces-High 

Jason, this chuck at LMS might be a possibility. . I believe it comes with the adapter plate. . Not bad for the price.









						4-Jaw Lathe Chuck | 4-Jaw Chuck for Mini Lathe
					

Constructed from high-quality steel, this 4-jaw lathe chuck has independently adjustable and reversible jaws. Securely hold your workpieces with this durable lathe chuck.




					littlemachineshop.com
				




Of course, I don't know that it is actually compatible with your lathe. . A phone call to LMS might clarify that.
It might help to also send them a picture of your lathe

Did you take the chuck off your lathe to have a look at the way it is mounted ?

I just had another look at the picture you posted at the beginning of this thread.
Looks like your lathe has a 4" plate on the end of the spindle. . Seems to be the same size as your present chuck, which you say is 4"


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## MythicPens (Dec 8, 2020)

I would advise going and watching Frank Hoose’s videos on how to adjust the cross slide, saddle and apron before doing anything else. 

I run a very similar lathe that I bought from LMS, it’s a seig as well. I wish I had broken the entire assembly down and adjusted like Frank demonstrates when it arrived from. LMS. It would have made a world of difference. 

It turns so much better than it ever has after the approximately 4 hours I spent adjusting every part as I put it back together. 

All of these lathes have issues with running true and cutting well, but a few adjustments can make it function like a much more expensive lathe. 

The other thing I would suggest would be to see if you can find a metal gear set (to replace plastic drive gears if you have them in there now). These lathes aren’t really made for a lot of production. I’ve turned close to 400 kitless fountain pens on mine in the last year and it sounds like someone put a handful of gravel in the gearbox. 


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