# First Kitless experiment



## Texatdurango (Jan 20, 2008)

I've really been wanting to make my own fountain pens without using any kit parts.  Here is the result of my first try....

I used a mutschler nib and seal and an acrylic body.  By themselves the upper and lower sections look and feel nice and without the brass tubes and metal parts the pen is light as a feather, but when coupled, the slim lower body doesn't flow with the curved upper half.  I'll have to work on that! 

Well, at least the measurements worked out and the pen closes and seals nicely and it was just nice to get back out into the shop after a month!

Now to make a clip!  I've got some ideas in mind.  

Constructive comments or suggestions always welcome.


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## karlkuehn (Jan 20, 2008)

Interesting! The cap is a friction fit, then?

You guys amaze me, just making stuff outta nothing! I'd love to be able to lose the kits. []


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## GoodTurns (Jan 20, 2008)

pretty cool pen....i hope to try "no parts" someday but for now i'm still happy when my parts match!


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## Texatdurango (Jan 20, 2008)

> _Originally posted by karlkuehn_
> 
> Interesting! The cap is a friction fit, then?
> 
> You guys amaze me, just making stuff outta nothing! I'd love to be able to lose the kits. []


The cap is a "snap" fit, wherin the nib holder snaps into a plastic cap which also serves to seal the nib.

Elliot Landes (xylostyle) sells the nibs and seals and also supplies a nice converter.


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## GaryMGg (Jan 20, 2008)

George,
That's gorgeous. I really like what you've done. Good workmanship. Nice design.


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## winpooh498 (Jan 20, 2008)

George, 
I think you did an AWESOME job! I like the shape. I see what  you mean with cap & body not matching, but I think it still works.


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## BRobbins629 (Jan 20, 2008)

Well done George.  I've cracked every time I tried to go tubeless, but one of these days I'll be able to join the club.  Perhaps a shorter converter allowing a shorter lower section would help with the balance.


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## bitshird (Jan 20, 2008)

Thats cool, I like the shape, encouraging to hear there is a way to make lighter  weight pens, very nice work


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## Stevej72 (Jan 20, 2008)

I think it is a great looking pen!  It does seem that something needs to be changed so the two sections flow together better, but you are off to an excellent start.  I hope I can do half that well someday.


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## Texatdurango (Jan 20, 2008)

> _Originally posted by BRobbins629_
> 
> Well done George.  I've cracked every time I tried to go tubeless, but one of these days I'll be able to join the club.  Perhaps a shorter converter allowing a shorter lower section would help with the balance.


I think that's why my upper barrel ended up "Chubby", I was afraid to turn it too thin for fear of making the sidewalls too thin.  In hindsight though, after gluing in the plastic nib cap, I think the cap is very solid and I should have turned the barrel straighter.

But heah... it's filled with Daphne blue and writes well... what else could I ask for?


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## simomatra (Jan 20, 2008)

George 
That a dam fine effort, I like your initiative[][]


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## mrplace (Jan 20, 2008)

Sweet! Never thought about a fit using the seal. What kind of tolerance did you use between the seal and cap?

Don't get hung up about clips, alot of people seem to like pens without clips. I am even turning in to a fan.[]


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## ahoiberg (Jan 20, 2008)

nice work george, kudos on creating a truly unique piece.


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## rhahnfl (Jan 20, 2008)

Very nice job. Must have taken a bit of patience eh?


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## Firefyter-emt (Jan 20, 2008)

Too bad you glued in that inner cap already. You could of used the "j-hook" method with something pressed in the cap to retain it it place and then installed the inner cap.  I guess the only way to work the body is to "step" it like other FP's to get the dimensions.  One of Lou's "shorty" converters might work to shorten the body end if they fit the nib holders.  Nice job though!


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## lane223 (Jan 20, 2008)

I like it. I really like your effort in trying a kit-less pen. What I don't like is not being able to get to sleep thinking on how you went about doing it.


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## karlkuehn (Jan 20, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Firefyter-emt_
> 
> Too bad you glued in that inner cap already. You could of used the "j-hook" method with something pressed in the cap to retain it it place and then installed the inner cap.  I guess the only way to work the body is to "step" it like other FP's to get the dimensions.  One of Lou's "shorty" converters might work to shorten the body end if they fit the nib holders.  Nice job though!



*looks around all cool-like*

Oh, yeah, heck yeah...heh...oh yeah, man you shoulda retained that dog with the big "J", man...you'd be way cooler if you did! You ain't gonna be able to install the inner thing there man, if you didn't hook it up with the j-hook, man...dude, you're screwed! heh...

Yeah man, you need to get to steppin' with the other effpees, man! Otherhow you ain't gonna get the dimensions, unless you get the shorty, you know what I'm saying? You get the nib holders to fit the body end and all, then _that's_ what's up, alright?! The way it stands, your innercap is hosed, dog! heh

*looks around, cooler than ever*

Ain't that right, Fire-man? I mean...geez...no J-hook...HAH! What are these dudes thinkin'?!

(I love being part of the cool crowd)

Incidentally, what's a J-hook? You know, not that I don't know...I just wanna clarify for the newbies...keepin' it real, you know...

[]


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## Aderhammer (Jan 20, 2008)

is a j hook the clip?  I feel lost man.


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## Firefyter-emt (Jan 20, 2008)

BwaHaahaaa....  Sorry there Karl!

The "J-Hook" is where you cut the "ring" of a pen clip into something that looks like a "J" (A little bit like those electrical connectors) The you carefully cut a thin slot in the cap. Now you can "hook" the clip into the cap thru that slot.  Next you need a "pin" that can be pressed into the cap and epoxied into place to glue the whole thing togather. You could drill a counterbore into that pin, be it wood or acrylic to allow a pen tip to fit in it, or if you are using the white cap inside the cap to hold the nib holder, you might be able to insert a screw to match the cap so it screws in like the CSUSA Americana style pens.  You down with that dog?

PS. Don't use gorilla glue for this as it will foam all out the slot for the clip and make a very big mess.


Here are some articles from the archives:
http://content.penturners.org/articles/2005/invisibleclip.pdf
http://content.penturners.org/articles/2006/recessedpf.pdf


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## galoot_loves_tools (Jan 20, 2008)

I really respect you guys that go kitless, very inspiring. Check out these Wahl-Eversharp pens, you are almost there, maybe just increase the diameter of the lower body a skosh and decrease or straighten the cap a little:
http://www.penopoly.com/wahl_eversharp_pens.html


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## karlkuehn (Jan 20, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Firefyter-emt_
> 
> [yadda yadda]...You down with that dog?



Word, uh...homie...you know I gotcher back, yo?

No gorilla glue - check.


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## Ligget (Jan 21, 2008)

Awesome work, you are an insperation to us all (well to me anyway) lol ![]


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## R2 (Jan 21, 2008)

That is a very pretty pen! and congrats for going kitless.[]


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## fernhills (Jan 21, 2008)

Nice work,,Carl


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## Texatdurango (Jan 21, 2008)

> _Originally posted by mrplace_
> 
> Sweet! Never thought about a fit using the seal. What kind of tolerance did you use between the seal and cap?
> 
> Don't get hung up about clips, alot of people seem to like pens without clips. I am even turning in to a fan.[]


The largest diameter on the plastic seal is .434" and I used a .437" bit in the barrel.  

The pen "snaps" a little tight because I believe I got a bit of epoxy on the wide part of the seal and it's not flexing as much as it's designed to do.  At least that's what I think is going on, future fits will see if I'm correct on the assesment.


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## Aderhammer (Jan 21, 2008)

Yeh Bois thx fo' hlpng a brudah out!


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## csb333 (Jan 21, 2008)

That looks really great! Well thought out- Chris


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## xylostyle (Jan 29, 2008)

Beautiful pen! Thanks for showing what can be done with the nibs I'm offering.

Did you try the "mount" approach? It's a brass turning that has barbed fins on it. You screw the mount into the cap, and the inner cap (also called a seal) pops onto the barbs.

Congrats on the nice work, Elliot


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