# Difference in a tap and die set



## JAZNCARR (Apr 21, 2019)

I saw jbr something or others 3 part video on making kitless pens. Searching for the taps and die sets they seem to be pretty expensive on the Turner's  based websites. 180 ish for the m13 x1.  I found a m13x 1 on Amazon for 30 bucks. Am I missing something??


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## Curly (Apr 21, 2019)

Just a little. You found a single start set on Ambleon and they are made by the millions thus cheap. The ones on the turning based sites for kitless pens are triple start and they are custom made in very low numbers because of the low demand, thus very expensive.

Starting out with a single start set is a good way to get going and if you like making pens that way then get the triple start stuff. Victor has most every kind of single start taps and dies but you will have to buy a minimum, $25 I think. They have some inexpensive die holders you can use with a transfer punch and your tailstock chuck and they have the drill bits too so getting to that minimum is easy.


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## JAZNCARR (Apr 21, 2019)

Ok I was wondering  what I was missing. Thanks


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## TonyL (Apr 21, 2019)

I just bought a bunch of taps and dies from Victor; all single start. I spent about 170 for drills, tap, and dies (but I bought 4 or 5 diameters), I also spent another 170 on tap and die holders from Niel's Niche.  Looks like fun!


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## magpens (Apr 21, 2019)

JAZNCARR said:


> I saw jbr something or others 3 part video on making kitless pens. Searching for the taps and die sets they seem to be pretty expensive on the Turner's  based websites. 180 ish for the m13 x1.  I found a m13x 1 on Amazon for 30 bucks. Am I missing something??




In addition to what Pete said, there are other differences ... as well as often being triple start, the threading for pens is usually ...
of a finer pitch, and a shallower thread depth (which goes with the finer pitch).

 There is nothing to say you can't do your own thing, but pen making has its own constraints which you have to take into account. . One of these constraints is that pen barrels and caps are cylindrical, and the wall thickness of these cylinders requires that you choose threads that don't critically weaken the walls.

The m13 x 1 thread size that you mention has a pitch, as you would know, of 1 mm. . The die/tap that cut such threads would make the depth of the thread approximately 0.75 mm or 0.8 mm (there is a rule of thumb for the relationship between pitch and depth, but I just can't remember that rule at the moment). . That depth of cut would require that you keep the cylinder wall thickness at about 2mm or so. . A typical pen-makers tap/die for m13, would have a pitch of 0.75 mm or 0.8 mm. . The depth of cut would be roughly 0.6 mm. . The pen-makers tap/die would be, as Pete said, more expensive because of the specialty market.


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## Fred Bruche (Apr 21, 2019)

Feels like a good number of folks are entering the kitless world lately, we should have a sweet show at Summer Extravaganza or next year's BASH!!  



TonyL said:


> I just bought a bunch of taps and dies from Victor; all single start. I spent about 170 for drills, tap, and dies (but I bought 4 or 5 diameters), I also spent another 170 on tap and die holders from Niel's Niche.  Looks like fun!


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## JAZNCARR (Apr 24, 2019)

I scored a set of triple.starts on Facebook marketplace. Thanks everyone


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## magpens (Apr 24, 2019)

JAZNCARR said:


> I scored a set of triple.starts on Facebook marketplace.



OK, so tell us what you got ...

And be sure to show us what you make with them.


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## JAZNCARR (Apr 25, 2019)

magpens said:


> JAZNCARR said:
> 
> 
> > I scored a set of triple.starts on Facebook marketplace.
> ...



 M13 x.8 tap and die sets and a m10 x 1 set and a 7.4x 7.5  plug tap( jowo #6 feeds)


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## stuckinohio (May 1, 2019)

Don't discount the single start tap and dies. You'll find the need for them on Caps and finials for pens with grain patterns or not round shapes like Hexagon for example. 

Sure you can make the grain line up with triple start but your customer (or you) will have to put the cap on up to three times to get it right.


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## mredburn (May 1, 2019)

Jowo takes a 7.4 x .5 tap for the number 6 feeds. You can also use a 7.5 x .5 without a problem.


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## magpens (May 1, 2019)

I think he did Not mean: 

"M13 x.8 tap and die sets and a m10 x 1 set and a 7.4x 7.5  plug tap( jowo #6 feeds)"

I am sure he meant:

 M13 x.8 tap and die sets and a m10 x 1 set and a 7.4x 0.5  plug tap( jowo #6 feeds)


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