# Collet Chuck ~ Metric or Imperial??



## yort81 (Apr 30, 2012)

Ok... Im going to take a drive down "kit~less" lane.  But the run out on my Talon chuck is too sizable.. (the spindle runout is acceptable). So I am going to buy the Beall Collet Chuck and a Set or two of Tap and Dies.

My question is... will there be any advantage for me to get metric over imperial?

ALSO... please...

I will be getting some Quality high speed tap and dies ... a couple to start... but I have the same conundrum... Metric or Imperial... 

Personally... i can't really think it would make a difference either way... except with the exception that I have grown up with Imperial all my life. Could you please give me some direction?

Oh...one more thing... does it matter if i get single start tap and die... or should i get triple start ( i know there is a huge price difference...but im ok with that!)


----------



## yort81 (Apr 30, 2012)

I beg your forgivness....I found a great thread here on the collet chucks that answers all my questions on the collet chuck.... but im still looking for answers on the tap and dies... Metric or imperial :~)


----------



## mredburn (Apr 30, 2012)

The tap and die answer is not always set in stone. Most of us are using metric taps and dies bought from different sources. The taps we use in pen making are a finer threads than are in the standard sets either metric or imperial. (fraction). YOu can use taps and dies from standard sets and just adjust your pen dimensions to work. It just means the threads will be coarser and there for need thicker walls. Making bulky pens. It however is a way to start if you already have them.
I would recomend that you  *Not *buy a triple lead tap and die set until your sure thats where you want your pen making level to be. You can make lots of pens with a single thread tap and die until your sure. (I and Indy Pen Dance sell the triple lead sets.)
Enco, Victor Machinery, and others sell the taps and dies seperatly that most of us use. THere are several threads that cover the recomended sizes. 
Victor Machinery - Metalworking tools and supplies
Enco - Guaranteed Lowest Prices on Machinery, Tools and Shop Supplies


----------



## IPD_Mr (Apr 30, 2012)

As an added note it is easier (at least for me) in determining hole size and tenon size when working with metric.  Also you will find that most of the available feed housings use metric as does some of the pre-made nose sections for rollerballs.  No mater what way you go, you will find that you will be wanting more as time goes on.


----------



## penmaker56 (Apr 30, 2012)

Metric, if you are looking to go "kit-less," basically all pen parts are made outside the US, and are metric, Chinese or German. Thread counts are metric and go anywhere from .35mm to 1.0mm, at least on the German mechanisms that I know. Also, invest in a good metric drill bit set, a lot of people will say .5mm increments is good enough, but the .1 increment sets are more accurate.


----------



## Sylvanite (Apr 30, 2012)

I have both.  I regularly use the metric set.  Why?  Because the english set has some gaps in what diameters it will hold.  The metric set covers the entire range.

Regards,
Eric


----------



## Andrew_K99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Sylvanite said:


> I have both. I regularly use the metric set. Why? Because the english set has some gaps in what diameters it will hold. The metric set covers the entire range.
> 
> Regards,
> Eric



Care to explain what sets you have?

The imperial (fractional) sets I've looked at go up by the 1/32" which is 0.79375mm. There should be less chance of a gap with the imperial set.


----------



## IPD_Mr (Apr 30, 2012)

The imperial set that I got (18 pieces) is missing a couple of the 32nds and another one or two in the higher end sizes that are available.  In the area just above the 1/2", there is room for improvement with the missing 32nds.  In the metric sets you don't have that gap, everything is evenly spaced by 1mm.


----------



## Andrew_K99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Thanks for the response Mike.  I had intended on going with the imperial set as they were closer together.  I started to wonder if I was missing something.

The set I am thinking of includes 21 imperial collets.  Found here ER32 Collet Sets


----------



## Haynie (Apr 30, 2012)

yort81 said:


> I beg your forgivness....I found a great thread here on the collet chucks that answers all my questions on the collet chuck.... but im still looking for answers on the tap and dies... Metric or imperial :~)



Feel like posting a link to that thread?

I have been scratching my head over collets while looking at the ENCO master catalog.


----------



## Andrew_K99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Haynie said:


> yort81 said:
> 
> 
> > I beg your forgivness....I found a great thread here on the collet chucks that answers all my questions on the collet chuck.... but im still looking for answers on the tap and dies... Metric or imperial :~)
> ...


Maybe not the thread in question but this is the one that answered my questions. http://www.penturners.org/forum/f30/collet-chucks-96564/


----------



## yort81 (Apr 30, 2012)

Haynie said:


> yort81 said:
> 
> 
> > I beg your forgivness....I found a great thread here on the collet chucks that answers all my questions on the collet chuck.... but im still looking for answers on the tap and dies... Metric or imperial :~)
> ...




Haynie... this is the thread that i found....but i have to tell you...Im getting a ton of information out of this thread as well...  Im just looking to find equipment that is right for me... and as you can see... you can get into some serious bucks right off the bat... I would just prefer to get it right the first time...LOL... if there is such a thing 

the thread is....
http://www.penturners.org/forum/f30/collet-chucks-96564/


----------



## yort81 (Apr 30, 2012)

Im laughing... Andrew... we posted at the exact same time ... and that is the exact thread i was referring to :~)


----------



## Haynie (Apr 30, 2012)

Thanks


----------



## Texatdurango (Apr 30, 2012)

Troy,  I have been making kitless pens since mid 2008 and have just about every drill bit and tap and die you can shake a stick at.  Some I have used a LOT, some I haven't even touched!  If I were to do it all over knowing what I know now, I would definitely do things differently.  

Here is what I would suggest:

Stay with quality *metric* tap and dies unless you already have a good assortment of *FINE* pitch Imperial taps and dies.

*DO NOT* buy a *set* of taps and dies thinking you're saving money since 90% of the taps and dies you will be using on your pens *are not in the sets*, even the fairly expensive sets.  Buy individual taps and dies as your needs arise.

Buy one *quality* set of metric drill bits in increments of .1mm instead of shopping the likes of Harbor Freight looking for bargains and settling on "not so straight, not so sharp" cheap bits.  True running, sharp bits will make a world of difference when you start drilling holes where .002" WILL make a difference how a converter fits into a section or how sloppy or crisp a pen body threads into a cap.  

That's how I see it! :wink:


----------



## randyrls (Apr 30, 2012)

When Richard (penmaker56) mentioned the .1mm drill set, I went looking for it.  Found this one from MSC.  It goes up to 5.9mm in .1mm steps.  These are Cleveland so should be a good set.

Jobber Length Drill Sets - Drill Bit Sets | MSCDirect.com


----------



## penmaker56 (Apr 30, 2012)

I have metric sets that go all the way to 10.0mm by .1, and if I could remember where I got them I'd post it (CRS strikes again).


----------



## yort81 (Apr 30, 2012)

*Leaning Strongly toward Metric*

I am leaning STRONGLY toward Metric from the opinions that i am garnering here! I am going to get the Bealle Collet holder... But im going to order a set of Metric Collets from one of these two places:

Penturning Penturner collets er32 metric er32
Or
ER32 Collet Sets

And of course a full set of Quality Drill Bits

AND

a couple sets of Metric Tap and Dies

You can see where these items add up quick, Fast and in a hurry!

$90.00        Collet Chuck From Bealle
$129.00      Set of Metric Collets
$115.00      Full Set of Quality Drill Bits
$40.00        A Couple Sets of Taps and Dies (im guestimating here)

And if you go with Triple Lead Taps and Dies
$130.00      Per set

That is almost $400.00 in basic start up costs (not including Triple Lead Tap and Dies!) ... Wow :~)


Troy


----------



## Andrew_K99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Don't forget a couple sets of calipers, drill chuck and tap/die holder.  A few blanks and pen parts too!


----------



## Texatdurango (Apr 30, 2012)

It seems like good  quality metric bits are hard to find here in the states.  Here would be one place to look for a very nice quality set of metric bits.... http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/118/2431/=hc5sas

I bought their set #30155a59 which are 135 degree split point bits from 6mm to 10mm in .1mm increments.  A bit pricey but I have used the Norseman bits for years and find them to be the finest quality bits available anywhere and would put these bits i the same category!

In my opinion, the .1 increments set is worth the extra cost since I find myself using the likes of 6.3mm, 6.7mm, 8.1mm, 9.6mm, etc, none of which would be in the .5 increment sets.

Of course this just adds to the pile of money to spend_ but_,  they will last you for years and years to come.


----------



## yort81 (Apr 30, 2012)

*Yes sir!*



Texatdurango said:


> It seems like good  quality metric bits are hard to find here in the states.  Here would be one place to look for a very nice quality set of metric bits.... McMaster-Carr
> 
> Of course this just adds to the pile of money to spend_ but_,  they will last you for years and years to come.




Whooohooo...and Oh Boy!!  hahaa ....  George...you aren't kidding.... those are pricey!  But on the other hand...I have had my share of "not so straight" drill bits...and it only takes one to mess up a whole project!  Id pick Quality anytime....  and like the old adage says.... 

Paying for quality only hurts once! but the pain of poor quality is everlasting!


----------



## yort81 (May 11, 2012)

Andrew_K99 said:


> Thanks for the response Mike.  I had intended on going with the imperial set as they were closer together.  I started to wonder if I was missing something.
> 
> The set I am thinking of includes 21 imperial collets.  Found here ER32 Collet Sets




Andrew...I just ordered from this company....and i received immediate response to my order.....it's on back order ...and they are out 5-6 weeks...(ouch!)   So i called and talked to the gentleman that sent me the email.. he said they have been SOOO popular...he has a hard time keeping them in stock....  He offered to refund me... and notify me when they are in stock (and hold one just for me)  The other place...it didnt have a number to talk to someone....and this guy was very very nice and ABOVE board...that im willing to wait the back order time.  snif snif snif...Im impatient lol

Troy


----------



## yort81 (May 11, 2012)

*Die Holder*

I did order this on Tuesday....and they have shipped and it's supposed to be delivered to me today (friday), according to UPS.

LittleMachineShop.com - Die Holder

Ive decided to hold off on purchasing taps and dies until the collets and die holders get here....I have a small set of taps and dies (fractional) that a friend purchased for me years ago that i would like to experiment with..... AND then purchase the quality Metric versions when i know what im doing....  

Also...I like the idea of purchasing a large set of QUALITY drill bits that increase in size by .1 mm   but...I might have to hold off on this till MUCH MORE funds are available... which will mean paying through the nose for them one at a time... dang it!

George (Texatdurango) has recommended set # 30155A59 a 41 piece set McMaster-Carr which i have been Eyeing intently though!



Troy


----------



## alinc100 (May 11, 2012)

yort81 said:


> I did order this on Tuesday....and they have shipped and it's supposed to be delivered to me today (friday), according to UPS.
> 
> LittleMachineShop.com - Die Holder
> 
> ...



Saw this set of drill bits in a link on another thread.cannot speak to the quality comparison of the Mcmaster Carr set but would let you know which bits you use the most and can upgrade singly.

29 Piece 1/16 to 1/2 inch high speed steel jobber drill sets


----------



## Andrew_K99 (May 11, 2012)

yort81 said:


> I did order this on Tuesday....and they have shipped and it's supposed to be delivered to me today (friday), according to UPS.
> 
> LittleMachineShop.com - Die Holder
> 
> ...



Thanks for mentioning the wait time on the collets, I think I'll place my order tomorrow.

As for drill bits, check out this post.  Same size set as mentioned above for less than half.

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f56/drill-bits-97125/index3.html#post1397528

AK


----------



## Texatdurango (May 11, 2012)

Andrew_K99 said:


> ....
> 
> Also...I like the idea of purchasing a large set of QUALITY drill bits that increase in size by .1 mm   but...I might have to hold off on this till MUCH MORE funds are available... which will mean paying through the nose for them one at a time... dang it!
> 
> ...



This is true and if you run over to harbor freight you might find them even cheaper yet or do some web surfing for cheap chinese drill bits made out of GOD knows what and you might find some real bargains!

I'm just glad you didn't say the same quality of bits can be found for half the price.  I bought a set of the bits sold by Victor Machinery three years ago and while their taps and dies are good, their bits aren't even close to the bits I mentioned above.

The phrase "You get what you pay for" definitely applies here!


----------



## Andrew_K99 (May 11, 2012)

Texatdurango said:


> This is true and if you run over to harbor freight you might find them even cheaper yet or do some web surfing for cheap chinese drill bits made out of GOD knows what and you might find some real bargains!
> 
> I'm just glad you didn't say the same quality of bits can be found for half the price.  I bought a set of the bits sold by Victor Machinery three years ago and while their taps and dies are good, their bits aren't even close to the bits I mentioned above.
> 
> The phrase "You get what you pay for" definitely applies here!



Thanks for the feedback.

I'm finding with certain things you'll get the exact item for cheaper elsewhere (like pen kits) but then there are cases like this that you get what you pay for, it's almost impossible to tell at times.

AK


----------

