# saw stop



## airrat (Nov 19, 2008)

I was watching Time Warp tonight and they were talking about the saw stop.  WOW I watched the guy put his finger into a table saw blade and not even get scratched.   Watching it in super slow motion (time warp) I had chills.  What a safety device for table saws.

Just do a search for saw stop or table saw safety stop.


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## el_d (Nov 20, 2008)

I think woodcraft carries them. Gives me a chill too just thinking about it. I wonder what guy drew the short straw to test it.


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## maxwell_smart007 (Nov 20, 2008)

I bet there was some massive carnage of chicken wings, hot dogs, and other human-like stuff before someone had the moxie to stick their finger in it...

Regardless, it's a really cool device.  I hope that it comes down in price someday so that I can consider buying it, but it's entirely too expensive for me right now.


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## Bear_Knuckle_Turner (Nov 20, 2008)

The Art's and Crafts woodshop on the Army Base I work on has one of them. They are SWEET!


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## rherrell (Nov 20, 2008)

I've seen it demonstrated with a hot dog before but never a real finger. Took some cajones to do that!


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## ehickey (Nov 20, 2008)

I watched that last night, too.  I believe it was the inventor that put his finger into the blade.  In super slo-mo, I kept waiting for one of the teeth to contact his finger...and kept waiting...waiting.  Then the blade just stopped, started wobbling, and dropped under the table.  Never did see a contact.  Very impressive to see it so slow.


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## jkeithrussell (Nov 20, 2008)

That's one of the most amazing things I've ever seen.  

FWIW, I hate using a table saw and only do it when there is no alternative.


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## Daniel (Nov 20, 2008)

The table saw scares the tar out of me. I am not afraid of very many pieces of equipment but to my way of thinking the table saw is just begging to be an accident.
I really wish the saw stop would catch on in a big way so that the price could come down. I am looking for a  good table saw and it is one of the ones on my list. Funny thing  is if someone told me that there was no question one day I would get my hand into a blade, it would be the only saw I would consider owning.


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## maxwell_smart007 (Nov 20, 2008)

It won't come down in price until the patent expires, Daniel...at least that's my thinking.

Andrew


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## BullDurham (Nov 20, 2008)

Get a hand or a finger in your table saw and the Stop Saw is cheap.


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## Russianwolf (Nov 20, 2008)

Saw it. The thing that I worry about is the Riving Knife didn't drop with the blade. So I'm guessing that it's not attached to the blade carriage and can get out of alignment. Not a good thing.

I think the idea is good overall, but it could be made without destroying the blade (noted they said it was a $60 replacement, but they didn't mention that many good saw blades can run $100)


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## GoodTurns (Nov 20, 2008)

I believe the $60 is for the cartridge that actually triggers the "kill" switch on the blade...


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## Russianwolf (Nov 20, 2008)

yeah, $60 is just for the sawstop brake cartridge. That's what I meant. They didn't mention the price of a replacement blade, especially a really nice "glue joint" type blade.


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## TellicoTurning (Nov 20, 2008)

airrat said:


> I was watching Time Warp tonight and they were talking about the saw stop.  WOW I watched the guy put his finger into a table saw blade and not even get scratched.   Watching it in super slow motion (time warp) I had chills.  What a safety device for table saws.
> 
> Just do a search for saw stop or table saw safety stop.



I don't care how good it might be, I ain't putting my fingers anywhere near a spinning blade.


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## VisExp (Nov 20, 2008)

$60 to replace the cartridge plus $100 to replace a good saw blade is pocket change compared to cutting fingers.  When I cut two of my fingers it cost $1800 and I cut halfway through the bone on one and almost to the bone on another.  Very little damage done at all.   The damage and the bill could have been a lot higher!


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## Russianwolf (Nov 20, 2008)

VisExp said:


> $60 to replace the cartridge plus $100 to replace a good saw blade is pocket change compared to cutting fingers.  When I cut two of my fingers it cost $1800 and I cut halfway through the bone on one and almost to the bone on another.  Very little damage done at all.   The damage and the bill could have been a lot higher!



I've got over 25 years working with tablesaws now. My father another 50 beyond me. He taught me to set the saw for each and every cut and to always know where my hands are in respect to the blade. between us we have 20 uncut fingers.

My gut tells me that the sawstop, while a good idea, will cause more carelessness than should be allowed in a shop. 

Compare it with todays cars. ABS, traction control, etc. etc. People can't drive anymore as the car does everything for them. Then when the system fails, they crash.

Just don't let me near a philips screwdriver. I still can operate one of those properly without gashing my finger. Where's the Screwdriverstop?.


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## xmaddchillx (Nov 20, 2008)

I got one at work and even though its a great technological breakthrough and even with the demonstrations I still don't trust it for a minute. Never let your guard down!


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## tomcatchevy (Nov 20, 2008)

I also have one at work and in my opinion it is one of the best saws on the market.  If I could afford it I would have one at home too.


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## Fred (Nov 21, 2008)

I always was under the impression that if one is inclined to use power tools of any description, but especially one with the power and ability to instantly remove various body parts, then that tool MUST be respected and used with knowledge and great care.

If one is inclined to misuse the tool and they accidentally - or otherwise - get their finger in the way then they have failed themselves most miserably and at great cost. Why would any sane person ever put their fingers near any running saw is beyond my comprehension. Don't they understand the potential for drastic results ... or is it like they just can't believe it could or would happen to them?

Gee, I wonder how many plans there are in the world for thinks like a simple, or complicated, push stick? "The Grr-Ripper" has a permanent home on my JET saw and I will never have the problem of blade contact. The larger "system" is better in the long run ...

http://www.woodcraft.com/product.aspx?ProductID=820434&FamilyID=4393

I believe the current cost for the SawStop brake replacement is $69.95 not to include time to go get one, time to take the saw apart and make the replacement, time to change cloths due to a 'pants disaster', smelling salts, waiting for the color to return to your face prior to seeing the wife and scaring the hell out of her, etc. This would also call for a strong, VERY strong drink or many! 

The SawStop concept is very intriguing, BUT on the other hand one can spend the same money on a Grr-Ripper System and be off and running for years with no down time due to a ruined blade, etc. And yes the blade is very susceptible to being ruined as well. :wink:


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## airborne_r6 (Nov 21, 2008)

Russianwolf said:


> Saw it. The thing that I worry about is the Riving Knife didn't drop with the blade. So I'm guessing that it's not attached to the blade carriage and can get out of alignment. Not a good thing.
> 
> I think the idea is good overall, but it could be made without destroying the blade (noted they said it was a $60 replacement, but they didn't mention that many good saw blades can run $100)


 
Actually I think the riving knife is attached to the carriage but when the brake triggers it unlocks the blade from it normal fixed position in the carriage and it pivots down.  Thats how it drops so fast.  They just drop the blade and not the carriage.  New brake locks the blade back in its normal position.  I could be wrong but I remember seeing someting on it, I think on the Finewoodworking website.


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## leehljp (Nov 21, 2008)

maxwell_smart007 said:


> It won't come down in price until the patent expires, Daniel...at least that's my thinking.
> 
> Andrew



And I think Andrew and a few others know some of the behind the scenes reason why.


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## NewLondon88 (Nov 21, 2008)

Well ..they say that most table saw injuries happen to experienced
woodworkers. Most are professionals who know what they are doing.
So .. I don't need to get one for many more years :tongue:


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## NewLondon88 (Nov 21, 2008)

Daniel said:


> The table saw scares the tar out of me. I am not afraid of very many pieces of equipment but to my way of thinking the table saw is just begging to be an accident.



Routers and shapers are the ones that scare the hell out of me. I can place
myself to the side of a saw blade, but that chunk of metal spinning at
30,000 rpm just gives me the willies even before I get near it with wood.
Anything that comes off of that bit is traveling parallel to my chest.
I wear a ballistic apron, but it still gives me chills.


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## sbell111 (Nov 21, 2008)

BullDurham said:


> Get a hand or a finger in your table saw and the Stop Saw is cheap.


Maintaining good shop safety practices is even cheaper.


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## jkeithrussell (Nov 21, 2008)

NewLondon88 said:


> Well ..they say that most table saw injuries happen to experienced
> woodworkers. Most are professionals who know what they are doing.
> So .. I don't need to get one for many more years :tongue:


 
My guess is that this is because the experienced woodworkers are the ones who are mostly using table saws.  First, not many people pick up a table saw, use it once, and then store it.  Some do, but not many.  Second, people who work with any piece of equipment regularly develop habits and become accustomed to the process.  Not to say that they let their guard down, but they aren't as afraid of the table saw on the 7,500th time they use it as they should be.  Third, you'd have to know what they mean by "experienced."  My guess is that anyone who does any woodworking on a regular or even semi-regular basis (whether on the table saw or not) would be considered experienced.  All of that is a long way of saying that there is some salesmanship in the advertisement.  

Anyway, it's a very cool table saw.


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## sbell111 (Nov 21, 2008)

jkeithrussell said:


> My guess is that this is because the experienced woodworkers are the ones who are mostly using table saws.  First, not many people pick up a table saw, use it once, and then store it.  Some do, but not many.  Second, people who work with any piece of equipment regularly develop habits and become accustomed to the process.  Not to say that they let their guard down, but they aren't as afraid of the table saw on the 7,500th time they use it as they should be.  Third, you'd have to know what they mean by "experienced."  My guess is that anyone who does any woodworking on a regular or even semi-regular basis (whether on the table saw or not) would be considered experienced.  All of that is a long way of saying that there is some salesmanship in the advertisement.


I wonder if 'more experienced' woodworkers are also more likely to remove the safety features of their saws and not replace them.  My FIL has many decades of experience with woodwoorking tools.  I was surprised to visit his shop one day and see him using his table saw without the guard or splitter to make simple cuts.  We asked him why he wasn't using them and he returned that he didn't know where they are.

Given that we had bought the saw for him a few years prior, we knew that they had existed.  He had just removed them at some point for whatever reason and lost track of them.  Since he was 'experienced', he never worried about replacing them.


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## bradh (Nov 21, 2008)

maxwell_smart007 said:


> It won't come down in price until the patent expires, Daniel...at least that's my thinking.
> 
> Andrew



I am not sure I would want a cheap "made in China" version. If I am going to spend money on a safety item like this, I want to be sure it is going to work if I ever need it.


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## Jim Smith (Nov 21, 2008)

This is indeed an amazing piece of technology.  In speaking with one man that uses this saw, he told me that he hit a soft/moist spot in the piece of wood he was cutting and it triggered the stopping mechanism. It absolutely scared the crap out of him and ruined the blade.  That being said, I would have one if I had the money.  

I have a VERY healthy respect for table saws in particular.  While in shop class in the 9th grade I witnessed an incident that has stuck in my mind.  As a 9th grader, I was allowed to be in the shop doing extra work on the cedar chest I was building.   The shop teacher was a very experienced wood worker that had a safety talk that he gave to every new class of 7th grade students.  He would turn on the table saw and pass his hand/fingers about 3-4 inches over the top of the turning blade, while telling the students to never, never, never do this.   Evidently the shop teacher either misjudged the distance or more likley got complacent with his safety talk; because he passed his fingers right through the blade, cutting off all four fingers  I had to assist him with the situation and calm the new kids down.  I don't know how many of the kids in that class dropped out of shop class, but I'm sure that everyone of them remembers that "safety talk" very clearly.

Jim Smith


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## marcruby (Nov 21, 2008)

The Saw stop only costs a bit more than any other high grade tablesaw.  Less than some.  Accidents do happen no matter how careful you are, and I'd rather pay for a new blade than having my thumb put back on.  For a long time I didn't want to spend the money (I wanted a PM2000) but, having had a chance to work with a Saw Stop I can only say I wouldn't buy anything else.  It's dumb to lose your thumb. if you know what I mean.

Marc


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## wolftat (Nov 21, 2008)

I volunteered to test one at the Orange, Ct Woodcraft store but they wouldn't let me do it, said it was expensive to fix after it stops like that.


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## Daniel (Nov 21, 2008)

On the experienced woodworkers are the ones to get hurt. I have lots of time on  table saw and what worries me is that I often find my mind wondering not being as attentive to the saw. I am not sure what it is about the table saw that does this because I don't do it with any other equipment. I have gone to bed at night remembering the times I have snapped myself back to attention knowing that sooner or later it will be the saw that does this courtesy for me. some of the reason I think is behind it is that the table saw can be pretty much set up and then material just fed through it. the repetition a lot of time sort of becomes like the white line hypnosis a driver can get.


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## leehljp (Nov 22, 2008)

Daniel said:


> On the experienced woodworkers are the ones to get hurt. I have lots of time on  table saw and what worries me is that I often find my mind wondering not being as attentive to the saw. I am not sure what it is about the table saw that does this because I don't do it with any other equipment. I have gone to bed at night remembering the times I have snapped myself back to attention knowing that sooner or later it will be the saw that does this courtesy for me. some of the reason I think is behind it is that the table saw can be pretty much set up and then material just fed through it. the repetition a lot of time sort of becomes like the white line hypnosis a driver can get.



I do multi-tasking on many things, but not with TS or BS or routers. I KNOW where my hands are, I KNOW where the pieces of wood is going. I can walk and chew gum at the same time but when it comes to sawing, I don't think of other things. I concentrate on the saw, wood placement, my hands and how everything is working together - or not. I am not frightened for saws, but I do have a healthy respect for them. I also use jigs, push sticks and other safety items.

In a previous post, one person mentioned that his father did not use the splitter or blade guard. One of the problems with older style guards and splitters is that it takes 3 to 4 minutes to take off for non-through cuts and dados and 3 to 4 minutes to put back on. When you do this several times a day or project, it becomes a time problem. So most people leave them off and accept the responsibility of personal caution. Doesn't always work, but at least they accept the responsibility.


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## Russianwolf (Nov 22, 2008)

leehljp said:


> I do multi-tasking on many things, but not with TS or BS or routers. I KNOW where my hands are, I KNOW where the pieces of wood is going. I can walk and chew gum at the same time but when it comes to sawing, I don't think of other things. I concentrate on the saw, wood placement, my hands and how everything is working together - or not. I am not frightened for saws, but I do have a healthy respect for them. I also use jigs, push sticks and other safety items.
> 
> In a previous post, one person mentioned that his father did not use the splitter or blade guard. One of the problems with older style guards and splitters is that it takes 3 to 4 minutes to take off for non-through cuts and dados and 3 to 4 minutes to put back on. When you do this several times a day or project, it becomes a time problem. So most people leave them off and accept the responsibility of personal caution. Doesn't always work, but at least they accept the responsibility.



Or they buy a Shark Guard, Right Lee.:biggrin:


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