# Drilling Pen Blanks (Big Help Needed!)



## VE5MDH

Ladies & Gentlemen of the IAP...

Items in inventory:

MT2:
- Rikon 70-220VSR from Lee Valley (Set to 615-620 RPM for this task)
- Jacob's Chuck (Lee Valley Tools) (Tail Stock)
- 3/8" Drill Bit HSS (PSI)  (Tail Stock)
- Baracuda2 4 Jaw Chuck (PeachTree in GA) (Head Stock)
- PSI C Series Pen Jaws for the Bolt Action Pen Kits (PSI) (Head Stock)


View in Gallery

Now these tubes are not glued in the blanks yet. They are just sitting inside the blanks.

I need your honest opinion on the air gap between the tubes and the blanks.

These were drilled using the above configuration.

On one of the blanks above, I used a 23/64" bit, but the hole was too small for the brass tube to enter into the hole! So I ended up chasing a 3/8" bit through the hole. These 3/8" holes for the Bolt Action Pen Kit (PSI), just seems to be way too large or oversized holes drilled in the blanks.

It is my own opinion that it may seem that there must be some sort of wobble making the holes slightly larger than they should be. Now, I could be very wrong, and these may be drilled right down the keister! (You know... Zero Tolerance).

You spend this kind of money, and you expect that there should be NO AIR GAP down the centreline! (Am I just too much of a perfectionist?). The PSI Pen Jaws Instruction Sheet was followed to the Tee.

Please share your thoughts, observations, ideas, comments or even rants! Remember now, these blanks are not glued in.

Michael


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## VE5MDH

Oh, the wood pictured is (from left to right):

White Oak
Cocobolo
Padauk
Padauk
Caragana


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## TonyL

I was never able to make anything close to concentric with variances like that. Out of every 30 barrels, i will get one like that usually when it's a longer barrel and drilled on a drill press as opposed to my lathe. I would love to know what others do to line-up the center of the tube holding the hardware with the outside circumference of the barrel material.


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## jallan

Michael, I am no expert but it looks to me as there is a wobble going on when drilled. I use a Nova chuck with their extension to drill pen blanks and have no gaps at all. From the pictures  I can see the tube hole  is uneven which means a wobble to me. Check all your drilling parts when drilling to see which part is wobbling.( I would use some scrap wood for this). Hope this helps. Also your tailstock may be loose at the bottom. (Just a thought).


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## VE5MDH

Oh, thanks for reminding me Tony! I cut the tubes down to just a few mm's larger than the chuck jaws! - Which is also just larger than the tubes for the Bolt Action Pen Kits.


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## VE5MDH

Thanks for the input Jallan! I'm trying real hard to isolate where this wobble may be coming from! The Cocobolo blank seemed to be the easiest to drill through, but it too ended up as the worst!

These are ALL NEW PARTS!!! This really sucks! I was expecting BANG ON Bullseye, as I was watching / reading on YouTube when Pen Turners use these PSI Jaws.


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## edstreet

Ok from the photo what we are seeing is over drilled holes.  The drill bit is to large.  What info is needed is this.  What is the diameter of the brass tube?

The 'step up' you have may not be the next size up buy the 4th or 5th size up.


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## edstreet

However,

You mentioned "bolt action" (I missed this on my other post)  This kit has some thickness to it so it's not wasted.  What you need is something that will FILL the void.  Some very thick build up epoxy such as bedding compound.  Something design to fill the large voids and offer protection and full support.

I would suggest acraglas epoxy.


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## monophoto

Have you checked to make sure that the tail stock and head stock are correctly aligned?  If they are not, then stationary bit in the tailstock jacobs chuck was appear to 'wobble' when the hole is drilled, with the result that it will be oversized.


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## VE5MDH

Edstreet, best info to date! Thanks. Sorry for the delay. My digital calliper was misplaced.

OK, OD of PSI #PKCP3000TU = 0.365"

White Oak ID = Drill Entry 0.41", Exit 0.39" (Head Stock Side)
Cocobolo ID = Drill Entry 0.407", Exit 0.391"
Padauk ID = Drill Entry 0.402", Exit 0.39"
Padauk ID = Drill Entry 0.4005", Exit 0.366"
Caragana ID = Drill Entry 0.408", Exit 0.395"

Any further info needed? Please ask & I'll do my best to supply.


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## VE5MDH

I was planning on using a 20 Minute Hobby Epoxy (Finish-Cure), made in the USA by Bob Smith Ind. (P/N: BSI210)

Looks like I'll be playing with it (kneading it to thicken it up) before I roll the tubes in it. Will need to be more like 5 minute epoxy before I insert the tubes in the blanks.


Will put in the 2 points in the lathe to verify (again) the point to point contact. I don't like the looseness of the jaws in the Baracuda 2 clamp though! The allen key is tight (should be set with 2, like the chuck is designed to be!).

Will do this after Survivor.


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## edstreet

Try a 'U' bit.


....







your tube is 0.365"  The next 'size up' is 'U' (0.368"), larger than that is your 3/8" (0.375")

Also if you want to reduce your slop factor then reduce the feed pressure.  Step drilling may also help to.  The entry/exit is not bad and no real cause for alarm in this case.


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## robutacion

Well, I can't see if the hole is centered both sides and from the pics I see, I don't think they are that out of centre so, miss alignment of tail stock and spindle, don't seem to be the problem.

This has been an issue that has been as old as people started to make pens and, has been proven that, can be a number of factors that contribute to oval shaped holes.

I can also tell you that, being a new bit, means very little, some bits cut better than other, some tend to follow its own pass and even new bits have defects or are less than accurate.

The woods you drilled into, are quite good woods to drill however being more on the dense/hard side than soft, these denser woods seem to be less forgiven that medium to soft woods, this is I believe due to the heat and friction exerted from the bit cutting edges and they ability to clear chips more effectively.

One of the testes I would be performing would be get a new bit and a different type bit, make sure you get the correct size, too tight can be a problem to glue and will not allow, the painting of the tubes and or reverse painting when necessary, to large or too oval of a hole can be a loss if the kit you are using allows very minimal wood/acrylic/material over the tube diameter.

Trying a different bit, with the exact same settings you use now, will tell you if the drill bit is the problem or, you have other issues with the set-up..!

Good luck,

Cheers
George


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## JD Combs Sr

VE5MDH said:


> Edstreet, best info to date! Thanks. Sorry for the delay. My digital calliper was misplaced.
> 
> OK, OD of PSI #PKCP3000TU = 0.365"
> 
> White Oak ID = Drill Entry 0.41", Exit 0.39" (Head Stock Side)
> Cocobolo ID = Drill Entry 0.407", Exit 0.391"
> Padauk ID = Drill Entry 0.402", Exit 0.39"
> Padauk ID = Drill Entry 0.4005", Exit 0.366"
> Caragana ID = Drill Entry 0.408", Exit 0.395"
> 
> Any further info needed? Please ask & I'll do my best to supply.


Based on what I see here I would say that your headstock and tailstock are not inline with each other, ie. the center lines are not the same.  Even if they appear to lineup using pointed centers one could be turned slightly.  A slightly turned headstock would give you a nice round but bigger hole then the drill bit being used plus you may not see any wobble.  Does the headstock on your Rickon swivel?  If so I would double check that it is on centerline of the lathe and that the spindle is parallel to the lathe center line.  A slightly rotated tailstock could create the same problem but it is less likely unless it is very loose between the ways.


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## alphageek

VE5MDH said:


> Edstreet, best info to date! Thanks. Sorry for the delay. My digital calliper was misplaced.
> 
> OK, OD of PSI #PKCP3000TU = 0.365"
> 
> White Oak ID = Drill Entry 0.41", Exit 0.39" (Head Stock Side)
> Cocobolo ID = Drill Entry 0.407", Exit 0.391"
> Padauk ID = Drill Entry 0.402", Exit 0.39"
> Padauk ID = Drill Entry 0.4005", Exit 0.366"
> Caragana ID = Drill Entry 0.408", Exit 0.395"
> 
> Any further info needed? Please ask & I'll do my best to supply.



Here is my thoughts.... 
1) your Drill bit should be .375 (3/8), which is a good match for the .365 that the kit tube is.
2) with the weird exception of #4 (typo? because its smaller than the bit???) Your numbers are relatively consistant so whatever your problem is its reproducable - thats good.

So... I'd be curious - Use the bit to drill through something thinner like a 1/4" thick piece of scrap (so the bit can't be off or wander)... Is that hole closer to .375?

If thats more as expected, then either something is off in your setup or your bit isn't sharp enough.   I highly recommend a drill doctor - it makes a HUGE improvement on drilling - even some brand new bits aren't very sharp.

If its setup, there could be a couple things.. for example, if the bit is parallel to the centerline but not on centerline - it wouldn't take much to make a bigger hole than expected.   Check tailstock to headstock lineup (with points in each).. Then check headstock to drill bit alignment if the previous lines up.   That will get you the first couple of possible issues.

The only thing that I personally wouldn't recommend is just blindly changing to a different drill bit size.  If you do and the root problem is a setup issue, you'll have to test and pick different size bits than the recommended for every kit you try!

Good luck - Let us know what you find.


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## BigNick73

Besides checking the wobble maybe try the 23/64" bit on another blank, if it's still too small try folding a strip of 150 grit sandpaper over your knock out tool and sanding the hole out to a better fit. 

I've have this happen sometimes, I started using 5 minute epoxy on all my pens. It'll fill those voids and you don't ever have a tube set half way in like using CA. I know I lost a couple of early pens to drops, and blowouts because of voids like that.


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## VE5MDH

Looks like I have some Googling to do! So far I have found this:

Walter R Hammond Co - industrial supplies - cutting tools - coolants


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## edstreet

VE5MDH said:


> Looks like I have some Googling to do! So far I have found this:  Walter R Hammond Co - industrial supplies - cutting tools - coolants



http://grizzly.com/products/TiN-Coated-115-pc-Drill-Bit-Set/G3658


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## magpens

You used a 23/64" = 0.359" bit and the hole was too small. That bit, was it from a reliable set of bits ? Try the 3/8" bit from the same set.  

I would never trust a bit that you got from .... ( you know, that place you got it )

John's suggestion that you try a "U" bit is good, but you may not have one and living where you do you can't just dash out and buy one.  I use a "U" bit all the time when I am working with the Bolt Action tubes and others the same size but I do mostly acrylics.
With wood, you may find the "U" gives you too small a hole, because the wood expands a little with the bit inside it and then contracts when the bit comes out.

I honestly don't think there is anything wrong with your lathe setup because, apart from being too big the holes look well-formed.

EDIT:  Are these the jaws you are using ?  They should be OK, but there should be no movement on chuck when you try to wiggle them

https://www.pennstateind.com/store/CJAWPEN.html


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## alphageek

VE5MDH said:


> Looks like I have some Googling to do! So far I have found this:
> 
> Walter R Hammond Co - industrial supplies - cutting tools - coolants



I still say look into the Drill doctor 500 or 750!   Even the BEST bit will get dull.  The DD makes even a cheap bit work really well.   You're showing all wood - when you get to acrylic it will get even more important!


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## VE5MDH

magpens said:


> You used a 23/64" = 0.359" bit and the hole was too small. That bit, was it from a reliable set of bits ? Try the 3/8" bit from the same set.
> 
> I would never trust a bit that you got from .... ( you know, that place you got it )
> 
> John's suggestion that you try a "U" bit is good, but you may not have one and living where you do you can't just dash out and buy one.  I use a "U" bit all the time when I am working with the Bolt Action tubes and others the same size but I do mostly acrylics.
> With wood, you may find the "U" gives you too small a hole, because the wood expands a little with the bit inside it and then contracts when the bit comes out.
> 
> I honestly don't think there is anything wrong with your lathe set-up because, apart from being too big the holes look well-formed.
> 
> EDIT:  Are these the jaws you are using ?  They should be OK, but there should be no movement on chuck when you try to wiggle them
> 
> https://www.pennstateind.com/store/CJAWPEN.html



Yes, and they are attached to my PSI Barracuda 2 Chuck, Original Jaws have been removed, and set aside.

Suggesting the U bit and FINDING one are complete opposites! I've been able to locate a single source so far, not too sure if they even ship to Canada.

Oh, and my main focus on the Bolt Action Pens from PSI is Antler, NOT wood. I'm just working out my centre / wobble issues before I waste my stock of Deer, Elk, Moose & Prong Horns!

And yes, I do agree, the holes look real nice and round, just much larger than I bargained for!


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## magpens

A "proper good" 3/8" drill bit should do a good job for you.

I think the drill bit that you used might be bent. Try rolling it on the kitchen counter.


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## Skewer

When you start cutting with the drill bit - observe and see if the bit seems to be cutting on both sides, or if it's out of line and only cutting on one side, making a bigger hole.  As monophoto alluded to, if it is out of line, this can happen.


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## qquake

I can't comment on your particular issues, since I don't drill blanks that way. I drill square and round blanks with my drill press, in a vise with a prismatic jaw. They don't always drill straight through, but at least the holes are completely round and not oversize. For the first antler pen I did, I used a different method. Since the antler is odd shaped on the outside, I needed a way to drill through the thickest part. I used the method in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAEEaF8z2jM

It worked out very well. I marked the ends where I wanted to drill with a transfer punch through one of the bushings. I drilled it most of the way through on the lathe, then finished the hole on the drill press. I used a DeWalt bullet point 3/8" drill bit.


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## VE5MDH

edstreet said:


> VE5MDH said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like I have some Googling to do! So far I have found this:  Walter R Hammond Co - industrial supplies - cutting tools - coolants
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shop our G3658 - TiN Coated 115 pc. Drill Bit Set at Grizzly.com
Click to expand...


Thanks Ed! Looks like a sweet answer to many issues! AND they ship to Canada too! (Eh!)...


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## edstreet

Wait wait wait!!!


There are Canadian companies who stock this and similar ones. May be cheaper for you. I did not realize you were in Canada.


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## VE5MDH

Skewer said:


> When you start cutting with the drill bit - observe and see if the bit seems to be cutting on both sides, or if it's out of line and only cutting on one side, making a bigger hole.  As monophoto alluded to, if it is out of line, this can happen.



This is what I first noted as I brought the bit ever so close to the wood. The cutter closest to me (horizontal by my belly button), hit the wood first!

Hence the idea of posting this online to see if this could have been my issue (without me mentioning this situation) - Root of my problem. So this now seems to be the case.

Thanks for bringing this to light.


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## VE5MDH

QQuake, Thanks Jim for sharing! Yes, I've watched your video a few times before, and I want to experiment with a few of my antlers on this technique. It looks simple and effective.

Are you noticing these elongated entry hole issues? or are you pretty square on?


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## VE5MDH

edstreet said:


> Wait wait wait!!!
> 
> 
> There are Canadian companies who stock this and similar ones. May be cheaper for you. I did not realize you were in Canada.



Our problem is we are in the middle of NO WHERE, Saskatchewan! Like when I say NO WHERE! I Mean NO Where! 3 Hour drive to go grocery shopping! Oh ya and our roads SUCK too!

Good thing I just found a site that is selling the same Grizzly 115 set for $49.99cdn! Bonus sale this week at Princess Auto (Canada's answer to Harbour Freight Tools). There is one on the north side of Saskatoon. Yee Haw, I say!

115 pc Titanium Coated High Speed Steel Drill Bit Set | Princess Auto


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## CREID

This is one of those topics with lots of opinions of what is happening, so I hesitate, but I have had this problem and I will share what I have found. I now take a gouge and make a small dimple in the end of the blank to guide the drill bit to center when I drill on the lathe. Sometimes (and it may be only slight) the end of the blank isn't perfectly square and your bit wanders just a tad as it enters the blank, causing an oblong hole on one end after drilling. Like I said there are lots of opinions and many are right under there own circumstances, you will have to experiment.
Just my 2 1/2 cents.

Curt


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## qquake

VE5MDH said:


> QQuake, Thanks Jim for sharing! Yes, I've watched your video a few times before, and I want to experiment with a few of my antlers on this technique. It looks simple and effective.
> 
> Are you noticing these elongated entry hole issues? or are you pretty square on?



This is the one and only blank of any sort I've drilled this way. Yes, the entry and exit holes were spot on. They're spot on in other blanks I drill on the drill press, too. But like I said, sometimes it doesn't drill completely straight. I haven't figured out why.


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## VE5MDH

alphageek said:


> VE5MDH said:
> 
> 
> 
> Edstreet, best info to date! Thanks. Sorry for the delay. My digital calliper was misplaced.
> 
> OK, OD of PSI #PKCP3000TU = 0.365"
> 
> White Oak ID = Drill Entry 0.41", Exit 0.39" (Head Stock Side)
> Cocobolo ID = Drill Entry 0.407", Exit 0.391"
> Padauk ID = Drill Entry 0.402", Exit 0.39"
> Padauk ID = Drill Entry 0.4005", Exit 0.366"
> Caragana ID = Drill Entry 0.408", Exit 0.395"
> 
> Any further info needed? Please ask & I'll do my best to supply.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is my thoughts....
> 1) your Drill bit should be .375 (3/8), which is a good match for the .365 that the kit tube is.
> 2) with the weird exception of #4 (typo? because its smaller than the bit???) Your numbers are relatively consistant so whatever your problem is its reproducable - thats good.
> 
> So... I'd be curious - Use the bit to drill through something thinner like a 1/4" thick piece of scrap (so the bit can't be off or wander)... Is that hole closer to .375?
> 
> If thats more as expected, then either something is off in your setup or your bit isn't sharp enough.   I highly recommend a drill doctor - it makes a HUGE improvement on drilling - even some brand new bits aren't very sharp.
> 
> If its setup, there could be a couple things.. for example, if the bit is parallel to the centerline but not on centerline - it wouldn't take much to make a bigger hole than expected.   Check tailstock to headstock lineup (with points in each).. Then check headstock to drill bit alignment if the previous lines up.   That will get you the first couple of possible issues.
> 
> The only thing that I personally wouldn't recommend is just blindly changing to a different drill bit size.  If you do and the root problem is a setup issue, you'll have to test and pick different size bits than the recommended for every kit you try!
> 
> Good luck - Let us know what you find.
Click to expand...


Ya, I do agree too. The 4th one, the second Padauk exited one way at 0.366" I'll re-check that number... Wow I just opened a can of worms here!

0.375" one way and turn it 90 deg, and I get a value of 0.3.65 - But on the other end I get 0.400 & 90 deg = 0.402! Go figure that mess out now!

I'll measure the bit and the point 2 point in the morning.


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## Skie_M

VE5MDH said:


> Ladies & Gentlemen of the IAP...
> 
> Items in inventory:
> 
> MT2:
> - Rikon 70-220VSR from Lee Valley (Set to 615-620 RPM for this task)
> - Jacob's Chuck (Lee Valley Tools) (Tail Stock)
> - 3/8" Drill Bit HSS (PSI)  (Tail Stock)
> - Baracuda2 4 Jaw Chuck (PeachTree in GA) (Head Stock)
> - PSI C Series Pen Jaws for the Bolt Action Pen Kits (PSI) (Head Stock)
> 
> 
> View in Gallery
> 
> Now these tubes are not glued in the blanks yet. They are just sitting inside the blanks.
> 
> I need your honest opinion on the air gap between the tubes and the blanks.
> 
> These were drilled using the above configuration.
> 
> On one of the blanks above, I used a 23/64" bit, but the hole was too small for the brass tube to enter into the hole! So I ended up chasing a 3/8" bit through the hole. These 3/8" holes for the Bolt Action Pen Kit (PSI), just seems to be way too large or oversized holes drilled in the blanks.
> 
> It is my own opinion that it may seem that there must be some sort of wobble making the holes slightly larger than they should be. Now, I could be very wrong, and these may be drilled right down the keister! (You know... Zero Tolerance).
> 
> You spend this kind of money, and you expect that there should be NO AIR GAP down the centreline! (Am I just too much of a perfectionist?). The PSI Pen Jaws Instruction Sheet was followed to the Tee.
> 
> Please share your thoughts, observations, ideas, comments or even rants! Remember now, these blanks are not glued in.
> 
> Michael




Didn't read the entire thread, so someone may have come up with this solution already...

I think the issue is either mis-alignment or a bent drill bit.  A bent bit is the easiest one to check for .... go to a flat surface ... a countertop or desktop, perhaps a table, and ROLL the suspect bit across the surface.  If it rolls unevenly, or you can see a wobble in the tip as it rolls, it's bent and will give you an oversized hole.

Mis-alignment is generally easy to check for.  Take your tailstock with a 60 degree cone center and put a cone center in the headstock as well.  Bring your tailstock up and lock it down.  Make sure that it lines up with your headstock center perfectly, with NO deflection in any direction, up, down, left, right... it needs to be perfect if you plan to drill on the lathe.

Mis-alignment can also occur further down the lathe ways ... to check for that, you'll want an alignment bar and a dial gauge, but for woodworking purposes you can usually skip this if your centers are aligned.


Beyond that, make ABSOLUTELY SURE your morse tapers are clean and free of all debris .... don't put anything in there other than a morse taper.  No oil, nothing.  If anything gets in there and is stuck, it will throw off the seating of your tool and will result in boring oversized holes.  Look in there with a good strong flashlight ... clean it with a brass shotgun cleaning brush or something else that won't scratch up the inside of the taper.  Also make sure the outside of the taper rod is clean.

Make sure that when you install the drill chuck for the drilling operation that the very center of the drill chuck is also on center with the headstock of the lathe .... chuck a small drill bit in the drill chuck and bring the point of the bit right up to the spur center in your headstock.  If the drill chuck is bent, it's worse than a bent bit.


Make sure that the chuck jaws hold your workpiece securely so that there is no wobble in it at all.  If you have to, shim (with small slips of brass shim stock) between the chuck jaws and the chuck body to achieve a uniform and perfectly square grip on your stock.  Set it once, and you'll never have to worry again when drilling perfectly squared stock.  Anything else, and you will want to turn it round between centers before putting it in your pen jaws to drill.  If it's a perfect straight cylinder, it will work in your pen jaws with no problem.


That's it ... that's all I can offer you for ways to check for the problem...  Good Luck!


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## MikeinSC

Here's my 2¢. Did you use a Brad point bit? Those tend to wander for me on occasion and I get exactly that. The entry hole is slightly larger. Also, swarth can enlarge a hole as well if not cleaned out. Not always, but it can. 

When this happens on wood pieces I have coated the inside of the hole with thin CA and then come back with either gorilla glue  or thick CA to fill the gap. The thin ca will help harden the inside of the wood if you have a soft wood. Chase it with the drill bit by hand to knock down any high spots tgat could hang up the tube. Don't use a lot of moisture when using gorilla glue on wood as the wood will expand slightly and then contract when it dries out again. If you use CA as a finish, that wood movement can crack your CA finish.


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## magpens

VE5MDH said:


> Good thing I just found a site that is selling the same Grizzly 115 set for $49.99cdn! Bonus sale this week at Princess Auto (Canada's answer to Harbour Freight Tools). There is one on the north side of Saskatoon. Yee Haw, I say!
> 
> 115 pc Titanium Coated High Speed Steel Drill Bit Set | Princess Auto



DON'T WASTE YOUR MONEY AND TIME ON THIS SET.  I DID.

Afterwards I bought Norseman bits.  You can buy sets but they are about $100+ per set.  

If you go to a good Machine Tool Store like KMS Tools (which doesn't have a store in Sask.) then you can buy individual bits.  A "U" bit or a 3/8" bit will cost you about $12 -15 each.  If you want, I can help you get in touch with the Headquarters store here in Coquitlam. I think they will do a mail order to you. Phone them ... KMSTools.com ... ask for Ron Gerrett in the Hand Tools Dept. Tell Ron I sent you.  He knows me well.

Another good Canadian store is KBCTools.com and they will definitely do mail-order.  They may not have Norseman, but their products are pretty good.  No problem buying individual bits from them.  Minimum order is $25.  

Don't buy bits from Princess Auto or from Busybee.

You'll never regret buying decent bits.

It's probably a 2-3 hr drive to Regina or Saskatoon, so take a little money and buy yourself a present.

Norseman from KMS (or other Machine Tool stores) has 3 sets, a Fractional set (1/16" - 1/2"), a Metric set (1 mm - 13 mm), and a Letter set (A - Z).  Each set is $100+, but buy just the bits you need if they will sell them that way.

In the Princess Auto set, you will never use the Numbered bits; they are all too small for pens.  They don't include Metric and you'll need some metrics as you move on to making different kits, like a "Cigar" kit or a "Jr Gent 2" kit.

If you want a list of commonly used bits for pen making send me a PM and I'll be glad to tell you what I use.  It would help if you can tell me the kits you are likely to use.


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## Sabaharr

Possibly a bent bit (It happened to me). Even a slight bend can make a difference in hole size and you can't see it wobble. Have you measured the tube diameters to see if they are spot on? Should be since the holes are different sizes on the ends.


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## VE5MDH

qquake said:


> VE5MDH said:
> 
> 
> 
> QQuake, Thanks Jim for sharing! Yes, I've watched your video a few times before, and I want to experiment with a few of my antlers on this technique. It looks simple and effective.
> 
> Are you noticing these elongated entry hole issues? or are you pretty square on?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the one and only blank of any sort I've drilled this way. Yes, the entry and exit holes were spot on. They're spot on in other blanks I drill on the drill press, too. But like I said, sometimes it doesn't drill completely straight. I haven't figured out why.
Click to expand...


Jim, I have a Pen Vice too. Purchased from Woodcraft in Florida. What I don't like about that one is that there is a very slim, 1/32" gap at the bottom of the clamp (actually its the thickness of a credit card!) where, once you apply pressure from the drill press onto the blank, the blank sinks that 1/32", and you end up with an out of round blank! Poor design flaw not seen.

Buy Pen Makers' Center Drilling Vise at Woodcraft.com

Pissed me off enough that I duplicated my MT1 setup to a MT2 upgrade.

For this being a CHEAP Setup, I have forked out more than $5,000.00 (and I still need to buy more items to clean this mess up!!!). Oh, and I have yet to sell a single pen! That's what just sucks about this Fabulous idea.


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## edstreet

Non-round holes.

Yes you can indeed drill non-round holes and fairly easy to.  The subject is called rotary broaching.  It is a very real thing and yes you can indeed DRILL square holes.


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## mark james

magpens said:


> VE5MDH said:
> 
> 
> 
> Afterwards I bought Norseman bits.  You can buy sets but they are about $100+ per set.
> 
> If you go to a good Machine Tool Store like KMS Tools (which doesn't have a store in Sask.) then you can buy individual bits.  A "U" bit or a 3/8" bit will cost you about $12 -15 each.
> 
> Norseman from KMS (or other Machine Tool stores) has 3 sets, a Fractional set (1/16" - 1/2"), a Metric set (1 mm - 13 mm), and a Letter set (A - Z).  Each set is $100+, but buy just the bits you need if they will sell them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FWIW : I will second the Norseman Bits.  Very expensive...  Will never need to buy it again (I also have a Drill Doctor).
Click to expand...


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## VE5MDH

mark james said:


> magpens said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VE5MDH said:
> 
> 
> 
> Afterwards I bought Norseman bits.  You can buy sets but they are about $100+ per set.
> 
> If you go to a good Machine Tool Store like KMS Tools (which doesn't have a store in Sask.) then you can buy individual bits.  A "U" bit or a 3/8" bit will cost you about $12 -15 each.
> 
> Norseman from KMS (or other Machine Tool stores) has 3 sets, a Fractional set (1/16" - 1/2"), a Metric set (1 mm - 13 mm), and a Letter set (A - Z).  Each set is $100+, but buy just the bits you need if they will sell them that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FWIW : I will second the Norseman Bits.  Very expensive...  Will never need to buy it again (I also have a Drill Doctor).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Will make a purchase of the Norseman Bits once I am able to sell some of these pens we are making.
> 
> Here is what the cheap set does:
> 
> Entry Side 3/8"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exit Side 3/8"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm impressed with this set - Of course they have no longevity, no problems here. We're just looking on figuring out what went wrong here.
> 
> I think I have my answer tonight.
> 
> The PSI 3/8" HHS bits we purchased are too SOFT! I saw them wobble like crazy. These Chinese Titanium Coated Bits went in real nice (nice and fresh bits too, I understand). I just need them to drill through 15 Antlers, so I have a chance on making a purchase towards Norseman bits!
> 
> Thanks all!
Click to expand...


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## Skie_M

VE5MDH said:


> ...
> 
> For this being a CHEAP Setup, I have forked out more than $5,000.00 (and I still need to buy more items to clean this mess up!!!). Oh, and I have yet to sell a single pen! That's what just sucks about this Fabulous idea.



My shop is my living room ... the floor is covered in wood chips.  I still need to get some dedicated shop space, and the kitchen is a no-go .... bedroom is just a bad idea, I gotta have someplace to sleep.  Bathroom isn't big enough.  I mean, I could just go outside, but the neighbors might start talking ...  If you want cheap, I can tell you about cheap ...


Hmmm ... I paid $109 for my lathe (Harbor Freight mini lathe ... 20% off coupon and I caught it on sale for $125.

I paid $50 for my combination 1x30 belt sander 5" disc sander, and swapped the disc out for a buffer to maintain my lathe tools.  Harbor Freight here too ...

I got a Drill Press and a Mitre Saw for christmas the past 2 years from my family, but they are around $90 and $100.  Again, Harbor Freight.

I also picked up a Harbor Freight table saw for $120.  It's still in the box, as I have no where to set it up and actually put it to use yet.

My lathe tools came as a set ... the cheapest one you can buy from Harbor Freight.  $20 ... I went back and bought a second set just to grind custom edge profiles and still have the original ones to play with.

My dust collector is an old vacuum that has a broken agitator brush and no rubber band to run one anyway ... all I can say is, it sucks pretty good, though it's loud.  Found On Ground, I believe, is the term .... someone was tossing it out, and I grabbed it.


The rest of my tools are lathe accessories ....  3-jaw mini woodworking scrolling jaw chuck from Harbor Freight, $40 after shipping... (had to order online).

MT#1 mandrel with mandrel saver (had to order a second ... dropped and stepped on the first one :tongue...  These are from PSI and are around $30 apiece.

I also grabbed the Bottle Stopper chuck mandrel and the Grabber closed end mandrel, with a 3/8ths MT#1 drill chuck, also from PSI .... cost of this stuff is right about $60.


The rest of the money I've put into this are for finishing products ...

$8 for a bottle of PlastX, from the auto parts store ... another $6 for a bottle of the liquid turtle wax, from the same place.

Sandpaper from Harbor Freight tools ... I just buy the multipack with grits 220, 500, 1000, 1200.  I don't really use the 1200, it just sits on a shelf just in case I ever need any or run out of 1000.  It's $4.50 per pack.  While I'm there I also grab the 10-packs of superglue for $2.99, and I use that for gluing my brass tubes and finishing my pen barrels.

My micromesh pads I get from Hobby Lobby .... about $10 for a pack of 6.  3200, 3600, 4000, 6000, 8000, 12000.  They work great ... double sided for each grit, and generally last over 20 pens.  Keep em away from horn, though ... that stuff loves to eat your grit right off the paper.


So, as you see .... getting into this for under $1000 pretty much requires you're shopping as cheaply as you can, and generally at Harbor Freight.  I wish I had a budget like some of you guys ...  Many of you own lathes that cost more than it would cost me to set up my entire dream workshop! (complete with BUILDING THE BUILDING).  My next purchase will be a bench top band saw ... also from Harbor Freight, for around $90.

I have no idea why you're complaining with a budget 5 times bigger than mine, though some people say that I'm sacrificing quality in order to just get the tool.  Well, I've never had any big problem with my harbor freight tools, at least not one I could just fix myself and move on.  

Using a tool beyond it's limits is just not acceptable to me .... and using a cheap tool correctly and within it's limits should never pose a problem.  Trying to force even a high quality tool to do something it wasn't meant to do is a huge problem, which is magnified my pushing a cheap too past it's limits to do something it wasn't designed to do either.


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## VE5MDH

Greg, my main complaint is mainly my own fault. We reside in the middle of NO WHERE! 100 mi just to go grocery shopping, which is also where I am able to score limited quantities for the trade. Some of which I have located only yesterday.

Further complaints would have to be attributed to the S&H fees tagged on to our USA orders, not to mention the amount of Customs Duties we are hit with for every American order placed, which also goes hand in hand to our failing Canadian Dollar! That truly bites!

Yesterday, I have found the Canadian equivalent to Harbour Freight, Princess Auto. Will have to do more investigative shopping there at future dates.

The majority of my MT1 tools (of which the lathe was a HF VS lathe!), was purchased on a vacation to Florida last January. Peachtree, Woodcraft, Harbour Freight & Hobby Lobby were focal hits along the way.

Oh, BTW, my shop is a 12 x 12 story & a half shed, which is valued to the tiny square CM! Not by the inch. So, on that note, I'm spades above you Greg (LOL).

Thanks for sharing your shop details. Oh, BTW... How far do you have to travel to get to your HF store? All for fun - Fun for all, eh!

Michael


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## Skie_M

It's across town from me, thankfully ... 

Yeah, I can see how having stuff shipped to you adds to the cost, that really does hurt.

I did find that my mini wood lathe (same as yours) has an issue with the tailstock slipping ... I'm still working on it now and then, but it turns just fine.  I just have to tighten it back up every 2 or 3 passes.  If I work out a fix to make it rock solid, I'll let ya know.

Also, I've found the guys round here are great for tips and tricks and fixes ... if you have problems with your equipment, post about it!  Provide pics and explanations, and people will bend over backwards to help you find and fix the problem!


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## jeff3285

*drilling pen blanks*

Mike I'm by no means an expert I'm new at this also,,,but I use the dedicated pen drilling chuck from penn state and I got it from amazon,,and I have not had any trouble drilling the holes,,I don't even take the time to center them,,using a pencil,,I just put them in the chuck and the drill bit in the Jacobs chuck on your tail stock,,,works great,,,,,,I have found out that if you do have wobble,,,push your blank back in the chuck till just a little is sticking out and use a shorter drill bit in your Jacobs chuck and go slow,,,turn your lathe speed down to its slowest and take small bites on the hole till it goes thru,,,pulling your drill bit out each time and cleaning it,,,,hope this helps
M


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## VE5MDH

Jeff, thanks for your insight! Trust me, every tidbit of information is wonderfully respected here! As well as wonderful information for those who have yet to trip upon this thread, or even become a Pen Turner themselves.

Outside of that, I must say that I'm having a blast drilling holes on the lathe (my MT2 one). Today after work, I was able to drill a margarine tub full of Antler! Each and every one exited the blank within 5% from where I thought it would exit from. There are no gaps in the blanks, everything is drilled right down the pipes!

I only had a side blowout on one, which was due to the amount of curvature on the blank (no doubt it may have been from a Prong Horn Antelope. Their antlers are much smaller, and lots of curve to them too!).

Now to glue in my tubes, Trim them down, Turn them down, Build up a Pen Kit (PSI Bolt Action Pen), I may even have a few left over that I just may sell on FeeBay.

I'm a happy camper with my Cheap-Ass Chinese 115 Titanium Drill Bit Set. They may not have a long life to them, but they sure are drilling Arrows down the Pipes!


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## Skie_M

Just be sure to keep them sharp and in balance .... a Drill Doctor will work wonders for standard twist bits like those.


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## edstreet

Would seem like drill doctor might be giving kick back 


Some one should ask for details on how a drill doctor will sharpen TiN bits or carbide bits or forstner bit.


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## Skie_M

Drill doctor works fine on TiN .... the coating is for the sides of the bits, to keep them cooler for longer life.  And as long as the profile of the bit will fit (like a standard glass cutting carbide bit), it will take care of those as well ...  Drill Doctor uses a diamond grinding wheel.

You don't use a Drill Doctor for forstner bits ... but you knew that already, ed.  Don't be dumb.


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## edstreet

Yea I did know that 

I also know that TiN is for the cutting edge as well and drill doctor fubar's the treatment.


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## VE5MDH

Skie_M said:


> Just be sure to keep them sharp and in balance .... a Drill Doctor will work wonders for standard twist bits like those.



Yes, I agree with the dressing of my bits. We will be window shopping for a Drill Doctor, to see if we can score one locally. I don't need the 750, just the 500, so that will save a couple bucks. Well looks like Canadian Tire has the XPC Model on sale!

Will have to get my Daughter-in-Law to use her discount for big savings! (he he eh!).


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## jttheclockman

If there is a product out there that works and makes a tedious job such as sharpening drill bits easier than why not promote it. It will sharpen Titanium bits just fine with no degrading. All bits lose their edge and to have them professionally sharpened which basically uses a diamond wheel too, cost a pretty penny. No one ever ever ever ever ever mentioned forstner bits being sharpened on a drill doctor. I did give a link to a diamond hone that I use often in another thread about sharpening carbide cutters, for forstner bits and saw tooth bits.  By the way the drill doctor can not sharpen spade bits either. It can not sharpen saw blades, planer blades, bandsaw blades and just about any blade you can think of. Oh and router bits too and shaper cutters and mills.


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## 79spitfire

jttheclockman said:


> If there is a product out there that works and makes a tedious job such as sharpening drill bits easier than why not promote it. It will sharpen Titanium bits just fine with no degrading. All bits lose their edge and to have them professionally sharpened which basically uses a diamond wheel too, cost a pretty penny. No one ever ever ever ever ever mentioned forstner bits being sharpened on a drill doctor. I did give a link to a diamond hone that I use often in another thread about sharpening carbide cutters, for forstner bits and saw tooth bits.  By the way the drill doctor can not sharpen spade bits either. It can not sharpen saw blades, planer blades, bandsaw blades and just about any blade you can think of. Oh and router bits too and shaper cutters and mills.



I suppose that's why it's called a "Drill Doctor" and not the "Amazing Sharpen Everything Wonder Doctor"...

BTW, I have the 750 and wonder how I got along without it!


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## BKelley

I have experienced that a long drill bit will some times set up a viberation causing a slightly over sized hole.  There are several factors to consider, type of drill bit, drill press RPM, rate of feed and type of material.  If you must be right on the money, try an undersized drill bit and then use proper size reamer.  I'm sure others will give you some helpful hints also.  Lots of luck.

Ben


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## robertkulp

Assuming that the lathe and associated accessories are within tolerance, problems with holes are usually due to bad drill bits. Personally, I've used several different PSI bits and hate them all. I've tried Fisch brad points with mostly good luck - except for a 10mm bit.

When I found the Colt Pen Drill Bits, I never looked back They are excellent pits and I've never had any problems with them. Yes, they cost more, but it's cheaper than continuing to ruin pen blanks.

Regarding accuracy and stringent tolerances... I like to make pens from drum sticks. The problem with these is that the hold has to be perfectly centered since you're not turning down the blank. Colt bits are the only ones that I've found that will reliably do this over and over again.


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