# Yet another CA question



## Ted iin Michigan (Jan 28, 2014)

I'm not new to CA but have been experiencing some awful issues lately and have a couple Q's

1 - my shop is in an outbuilding. It is heated but I am cheap and don't leave the heat on overnight. Lately I have been getting some real bad cracking in the cured CA. Could this be due to cold? 

2 - What is the shelf life of CA (thin)? I use "Stickfast". It isn't esp old. Maybe 6 months. 

3 - I noticed in the cold shop (see above no 1) that the CA seemed to not cure. Is this more likely due to the cold or the lack of moisture in the air?

Dang it's cold in Michigan this year!


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## Jim Burr (Jan 28, 2014)

With those shop temps...CA should be fine for a while!!
Stickfast has issues...some will say no, but the overall is it needs some work
Cracking is a proven issue with Stickfast...could be some issues with accelerator to. 
Try a different CA and better temps...see if the problems go away...some JMHO...some fact.
Forget cheap and pens...get in the house where it's warm!!


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## Pitoon (Jan 28, 2014)

it could be the cold, old ca, or thermal tension.  i would try putting the ca on and then bringing the blank w/ mandrel in the house to dry where the temps are a bit warmer.

Pitoon


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## Ted iin Michigan (Jan 31, 2014)

Follow up. 

I did as pitoon suggested. 2 pens - zebra wood. Applied the CA (8 coats w/accelerator). Left them both on the mandrel and brought them in the house to cure. After a day and a half the results look much better. Gonna leave them inside for a couple more days and then do the sanding/polishing. Will post results. 

Jim - Curious as to your CA brand. Also - do you use accelerator? Going to send a PM.


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## edstreet (Jan 31, 2014)

Ted iin Michigan said:


> I'm not new to CA but have been experiencing some awful issues lately and have a couple Q's
> 
> 1 - my shop is in an outbuilding. It is heated but I am cheap and don't leave the heat on overnight. Lately I have been getting some real bad cracking in the cured CA. Could this be due to cold?
> 
> ...



There has been a good hefty number of reports of this same problem with Stickfast brand accelerator.  What is happening is this, the CA dries to fast and causes it to be very brittle most often due to the accelerator being used, brand most often but sometimes the amount used, i.e. excessive amounts.  There is some other factors that can affect that as well.  Searching the site will reveal a good number of cases.  It is also true with other non-stickfast brands as well but that one particular brand does seem to stick out from the other brands for some reason.

It is also well known that moisture will cause CA to dry, particular higher humidity %.  Other things like age will affect how the CA dries, some have a shelf life of 6 months while others 3-4 years.  There is that much of a difference between brands.


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## Ted iin Michigan (Jan 31, 2014)

Follow up on the follow up. 

Well, the same thing happened again last night. So I have now gotten some additional CA and will give it a go again tomorrow.


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## Dan Masshardt (Jan 31, 2014)

I use stickfast almost exclusively and stick fast accelerator and never had a crack problem.  I like it the best.   I don't have any probs in the cold either.  

However, once a pen is finished, it comes inside. 

I know that doesn't really help bit I wanted to throw in a never had a problem with stickfast report.


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## Jim Burr (Jan 31, 2014)

Received and sent Ted. To add a thought to Ed's response...CA is a hard adhesive, I'm going to say glue because it's easier to type! It needs to build structure over it's designed time frame...let's say Hardness A to Hardness B in 3 minutes. If we change temps, humidity...you know the drill...this changes the factors of curing. Some of this is factored in by the manufacturer...they need to account for many different situations. If we change the dry/cure time to something shorter than the manufacturer countered for...it will dry fast, the surface area will shrink and because it happens really fast...you get cracks. That may or may not help...sorry


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## NittanyLion (Jan 31, 2014)

I would not rely on CA that has been opened for 6 months.  You can tell pretty quick by the dry time that it is not any good.


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## Jim Burr (Jan 31, 2014)

NittanyLion said:


> I would not rely on CA that has been opened for 6 months.  You can tell pretty quick by the dry time that it is not any good.


 
Agreed Steve. My only "maybe" would be that stored in the fridge.


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## edstreet (Jan 31, 2014)

Jim Burr said:


> NittanyLion said:
> 
> 
> > I would not rely on CA that has been opened for 6 months.  You can tell pretty quick by the dry time that it is not any good.
> ...



That would depend on the brand and type of CA  

for example, BSI brand ODORLESS CA has a shelf life of 3 years.


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## robutacion (Jan 31, 2014)

Jim Burr said:


> NittanyLion said:
> 
> 
> > I would not rely on CA that has been opened for 6 months.  You can tell pretty quick by the dry time that it is not any good.
> ...



I don't have an answer for this particular case however, I can testify that products such as the CA, accelerator and many other identical products, do really improved considerably their shelf life, when store in a fridge.

In fact, for countries such as Australia where hot weather is common, some products don't last long, after they have been opened for the first time. 

I have bought a bigger fridge for the kitchen (house) some time ago, so that I could store some of my glues however, adding bigger portions all the time,(about 1 gallon [16oz bottles] at the time, between viscosities, particularly 5cps) and the wife still have enough space for the food, etc but, these last few months, has been a struggle for her to fit the products from the shopping day, after I started to add a few extra bottles that I normally keep out but, with temperatures over 40° celsius and low sheds that reach over 50° Celsius in those hot days, such as the ones we are experiencing now (Summer), the bigger fridge become too small for everything so, I had to purchase small bar type fridge to put in the work-shop will all the stuff I had in the house fridge, I was amazed on how quickly I filled that small fridge, right to capacity.  I have manage to maintain the new fridge inside temp at 5° Celsius though these scorching hot days...!

What I'm trying to say is, unless your place is cold all the time, CA, accelerator and identical items can last a lot longer (life spend) if kept in a fridge. It cost me $200.00 to buy this new bar fridge (128lt capacity) with a 3 star rating, I can tell you that, in these last 5 years, the amount of money lost in CA, other glues, accelerator, paints, and any of these type medium to short shelf life that I lost, I would have purchased 5 of these fridges, the little power they use per year, is a good investment no doubt, no forgetting that, being in the work-shop, you can have a cold drink, whatever takes you fancy, in those hot days on when you want to have a brake...!:wink::biggrin:

Cheers
George


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## Ted iin Michigan (Feb 2, 2014)

Yet another follow up.....

I was thinking that perhaps my CA had been around a wee bit longer than I had figured. So I paid a quick visit to my local supplier and picked up some new stuff. Night and day difference. I'm back to decent finishes. Sorry, no pics right now.

Many of the responses above suggested to insure the CA wasn't too old and my takeaway from all this is: MAKE SURE YOUR CA IS FRESH!

Thanks to everyone who contributed!


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## plano_harry (Feb 2, 2014)

FWIW -- I am still using E-Z Bond 50 cps (thin) CA that I bought when Mannie retired.  I keep the bulk bottle in the fridge with as much air squeezed out as I can.  My working bottle sits on the shelf in my shop 30's -40's winter unless I turn the heater on and go to work.  The bottle has a 2-3" long, very small diameter replaceable tip that never gets capped (per Mannie's recommendation) and it is rarely clogged.  When it does, I snip off about 1/8" inch and I am good to go for another couple of days.  Not as cold as MI, but my CA is not "fresh" either.  I apply it, sand it, take the pen in the house and admire it.  I have used Stick Fast in the past with satisfactory results, but I am perfectly fine with the savings I get on bulk E-Z Bond.  

Harry


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## GaryT45 (Feb 2, 2014)

While you may have purchased the bottle 6 months ago, you have no idea how long the seller had the bottle sitting on their shelf before you purchased it.

The best results I have ever gotten using CA came from a brand new bottle.  That bottle did not last long enough.


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## bradh (Feb 2, 2014)

Another factor possibly affecting the CA life is the heat cycles. Heat cycles in the shop can mean condensation when heated air hits cold CA. Condensation in the CA bottle can shorten the life of CA.


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## thebillofwrites (Feb 3, 2014)

bradh said:


> Another factor possibly affecting the CA life is the heat cycles. Heat cycles in the shop can mean condensation when heated air hits cold CA. Condensation in the CA bottle can shorten the life of CA.



A good rule of thumb is when removing a new bottle of CA from the fridge, always allow it to return to room temperature before opening it. Any condensation will form on the outside of the bottle when it is first brought in to the warmer, and possibly humid conditions in your shop. 

Once the bottle is opened, do not return it to the fridge. Cap it when not in use and store it in a cool, dry area.

Bill


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