# Dust Collection Question



## EricRN (Jul 1, 2020)

I'll start this thread by saying I'm probably biting off more than I can chew, but how will I learn otherwise???  I've come to the realization that I need one of those mobile all-in-one workstations.  I work out of a two-car garage that also houses two cars, and now need to find room for a fairly large, three-wheeled handcycle.  Anyway, by the time I pull the cars out, pull the handcycle out, wheel the planer and table saw into the middle of the garage, get them all plugged in and set up, I've burned 20 minutes of my shop time.  And then, when it comes time to clean up, I need to vacuum everything up and put everything back.  Another 20-30 minutes burned.  I rarely get more than 90 minutes to work so I spend more time in set-up and breakdown than I do actually working.  Plus, I'm finding that the table size of my table saw (one of those contractor saws) is pretty limiting and that I could really use some outfeed support.

So here's my plan.  I'm going to custom design and build something, maybe 36 inches by 8 feet or so, that will house the table saw on one end, the router on the other.  The planer will sit on draw that slides out from underneath when in use.  I'm also going to find some space in there for a small 4gal air compressor.  Maybe I'll put my bench grinder on there, too, although I'm inclined to leave that up against the wall near my lathe.  Everything on the workbench will be wired up to a single plug.  And I'd also like to include ductwork for a dust collection system.  Basically, the dust ports on the table saw, router, and planer will all feed into a single duct on the end, that I would then connect to one of the wall-mounted dust collectors.  In theory, I can pull the cars out, pull the bikes out, wheel this badboy into the middle of the garage, plug it in, connect it to the dust collector and get to work, with minimal setup/clean-up/breakdown time. 

Here's my question:  How big/powerful of a dust collector do you think I'd need to provide sufficient suction for the whole set-up?  Obviously, space is at a premium for me.  I would like to get one of those portable wall-mounted dust collectors (like this https://www.rockler.com/dust-right-..._nT2er9C-lLnYSbgGQmehHAUlKY7NwsgaAngPEALw_wcB).  Another option would be a shop-vac style that I actually mount in the workbench (like this: https://www.gipowerproducts.com/portfolio/dust-collector-50l/).  But this is my first instance with dust collection and I'm not sure if these would create enough suction to pull from the whole work bench.  I suppose I can include some valves to maximize suction at whatever tool I'm using.  But I'd rather something simple.  I know I'll forget to open the valves.

(Another issue is amperage.  I'm concerned that if I include the shop vac style on the workbench itself, I won't have enough amperage to power the dust collector and the table saw/planer/router without tripping the breaker.  Most of the tools I'd be housing on the workbench have a 15A draw, and I think the max on my breakers is 20A or so.  I do have two separate circuits in the garage, though, so at least with wall mounted, I can plug that into one circuit and the workbench into the other.)

Anyway, if anyone has any experience designing something like this, I'd appreciate any insight into how you worked dust collection into it.


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## JimB (Jul 1, 2020)

there are many threads on here regarding dust collectors so I suggest doing a little searching. However, to answer some of your questions, the DC you link from Rockler will not be powerful enough for open connections to multiple tools. At 650 CFM it is a bare minimum DC and intended for one tool at a time. You will need blast gates (you refer to them as valves) for each tool. There are other concerns with that particular style unit. The bag is a 30 micron so it is going to allow a lot of fine dust to escape. Also, the single bag functions as both the filter and the collection bag. As it fills you will lose performance of the DC.

i have a full size, 1 hp, 1 micron, 650 CFM DC. I have on occasion left 2 blast gates open and the performance drops dramatically And is not sufficient.

i Would not recommend running the DC on the same circuit as your tools. If they are already pulling 15 amps you will have problems. You also need to check if it is 15 or 20 amp circuit. It says right on the breaker. Also, you need to know what the wiring Is rated for. Unless the garage was wired specifically for tools it is probably only 15 amp.


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## Curly (Jul 1, 2020)

What are your goals? Remove the major amount of dust you see and have to clean up or capture the very fine dust you can't see so you don't have to wear a mask?

With the first the two options are inadequate and you need bigger. With the second you need a lot bigger and much better filters or vent outside the shop.

Most dust collectors are tested without ducting, no filters and the measuring device in the centre of the airstream. That gives the highest reading. In practice with pipe / hoses attached and filters they will at best give you half the claimed airflow. So the 650CFM of that wall hung will be about 325CFM. 

4" ducting can at most move about 400CFM though it. Less with hose. Hose has 3 times the drag of duct. 15' of hose is equal to about 45' of duct. Use the minimum you can. 

6" can move 1200CFM but you need a bigger DC to move that kind of air. 

The wall hung DC comes with a 30 micron bag with a 5 micron option. Both are not fine enough to protect you unmasked. You can't see dust under 10 microns and it behaves like a gas and floats around for hours after you finished. That stuff is what gets deepest into your lungs and causes the most harm to you. To capture it you need a minimum of 800 CFM at the source, the machine you are collecting from and the machine needs to have the ports opened to allow the air to flow through and carry the dust with it. A 2HP DC with a 1 micron filter sitting beside the machine with 6" duct/hose can just meet that flow. If you want a ducted system to cover the garage/shop with the DC located at one spot You need a 3HP with a 13" impeller. Add a cyclone and you should have more.

If you build your bench you will need blast gates for each tool to keep the suction concentrated to the one you are using at the moment. The tables and router need overhead collection in addition to below the table.

Everything you add between the DC and the machine reduces the amount of suction. Length of pipe, length of hose, each elbow, and a cyclone if added will all reduce the suction. There are tables and calculators that can tell you how much. 

Jim is a quicker typist than I but I'm not going to edit what I have one fingered.

Unfortunately dust collection is the most complex and expensive part of woodworking. It is hard to grasp and apply. Manufactures don't help by making false claims, putting ports on machines sized from standards that came out many decades ago. They are in business to sell and will always have something in your budget that "Is perfect and all you need." even when they aren't. What me jaded? 

If you are going to go with a small DC ventilate the shop with open doors/windows and fans sucking the air out. Wear a good mask/respirator and if you have a beard a powered air helmet. Beards make masks useless.


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## KenB259 (Jul 1, 2020)

I bought the Rocker 650CFM one awhile ago, wasn't strong enough, even just hooked to one machine. I made that one into a portable unit, used now at my lathe or router table, it's big enough for that. I bought that units big brother, rated at 1250 CFM and it works great hooked to both my table saw and band saw with blast gates on each saw.  I opted for the 5 micron bag on both. I do have two other air cleaners, one hanging above my table saw and another one home built. I'm happy with what I have.


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## EricRN (Jul 1, 2020)

Hmm.  This is all some really good advice.  I didn't appreciate all this--especially the point about the smaller dust hanging in the air for hours.  Makes sense; I just didn't think of it.  I've got zero dust collection now (obviously).  I always just work with the garage door open (wearing a mask) and then blow/sweep most of it out when I'm done.  But with my wife and kids going in and out of the garage on the daily, I wonder if I need to make dust collection more of a priority.  Probably not a huge issue, but I'd rather not be the reason anyone in my family gets sick.  I'll do some searches.  I don't have a 220V circuit available to me out in the garage, so hopefully I can get something with enough draw to on 120V.  Sounds like blast gates aren't optional.  This is going to require some thoughtful design.  But that's part of what makes woodworking enjoyable for me.  Coming up with simple, elegant solutions to complicated, multi-variable problems.


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## jttheclockman (Jul 1, 2020)

I wasn't going to get into this thread but will tell you there are many sites and books out there on designing dust collection for shops of all kind. Will say this you will never ever ever clear the air completely. Especially with moveable tools. So buy a dust collector large enough for your largest dust producing tool and that would be a sander. Tools such as jointers that produce large chips but not much dust. Tablesaw will produce both and is the biggest dust and chip producer in a shop and that is why people build around it. The problem is as much dust and chips you collect under it you will still have as much on top. unless you have dust collection at the blade too and they become a pain in the butt. The lathe can be as bad as a tablesaw.

Many things to look at in styles of dust collectors too and decide how you want to empty them. No need for 220V. Just run it on its own 120v circuit. If you are going to make it stationary then blast gates and large duct pipe is necessary to make up for distance. Good luck. Working in a garage and if the door gets opened forget about an air cleaner. Wasting your money.

I work in a basement shop so that is a different setup and I have my duct system piped with blast gates and flex hose. I had a 1 micron bag made for my Delta dust collector. I have an air cleaner with a entry door to shut off rest of the basement from dust. Still there is dust that gets around. Just the nature of the hobby. Good luck


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## Curly (Jul 1, 2020)

Here is a webpage that will take you a few days, at least, to read. There is a lot of good information with some repetition so people visiting to cherry pick will still get the important stuff. http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.php

Your family doesn't have to be in the garage to get sick. If they have problems with allergies or are asthmatic the dust on your clothes when you go into the house can sometimes be enough. Wearing shop coats and or changing your clothes before going back into the house is a good idea.

A hobbyist working a few hours on a weekend with poor DC can expose themselves to more dust than a woodworker in a business that has conforming dust collection does in a month. 

If you aren't renting look into having the power in the garage upgraded. Something to consider for the long term.


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## moke (Jul 1, 2020)

Lots of good advice here.....I personally don't think you would need blast gates, if cost or room is an issue.  Run 4" lines from each tool to hook ups on the side of the rolling bench that is clearest and use the Rockler Dust right Quick change system.  Give it a look......then you would simply unplug the quick change handle with attached hose form outlet to outlet as needed.  Look it up on the Rockler site and you will instantly understand.





						Dust Collection Fittings at Rockler: Coupling, Connectors, & More
					

Tired of spending time cleaning up mountains of dust? Clean easier and faster with Rockler's selection of dust collection fittings.




					www.rockler.com
				




If you have room I would get a Jet, used Delta, or even a Grizzly standing unit that is 1100 cfm.  The Jet unit has a reasonable unit that has a filter on top and is 120v.  https://www.rockler.com/jet-vortex-dust-collector-1-5hp-w-canister-filter-dc-1100vx-ck
The worst part about them is the hose!  Hint:  Just because you can afford 20' of hose doesn't mean you need it.   DAMHIKT

After all that is said and done, I would advise an air cleaner to mount to the ceiling.  They are 250 - 450.00  they may not be a fun tool, but breathing into your 70's and 80's is fun too.  Spend some extra money and get a "water cleanable filter".  It will pay for itself in a year or two over buying new filters.

I feel for you, having to set up and tear down each time.  I have been doing it for 30 years now.   I am retiring Aug 1 and selling my building and business, and building a new 24 x 40 building in my back yard for my shop.......After it is done, the first thing I am going to do is make a ton of sawdust....NOT clean it up and walk away after shutting the door.  I will clean it up when I am good and ready.....

I have seen a ton of those rolling benches on another website.  There are some that are really cool.  I think you will be happy with that!


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## egnald (Jul 1, 2020)

Greetings from Nebraska!  First of all, I am in no way any kind of expert on dust collection systems; however, I do have a small shop with most of my tools (table saw, miter saw, planer, etc. all mounted on mobile stands so that I can roll them in and out of the center of the room when I need to use them.

For dust collection, I have been using (and am very happy with) the following.  I have a big 25 gallon Shop Vac plugged into a remote on/off switch made for inductive loads.  I have a Dust Deputy, two bucket cyclone separator (5 gallon plastic pails), the $100 model, connected to the Shop Vac which collects the dust and debris very well.  I also have a drywall bag in the Shop Vac in case there are any fines that don't fall out in the cyclone.  After more than 2 years I have never had to replace the bag and the Shop Vac continues to have plenty of suction.

Although the vacuum and Dust Deputy are both on wheels, I have them tucked under a shelf and only need to move them out when I need to dump the bucket.  I have a Dust Right 2-1/2 Expandable Shop Hose (Rockler) connected to the Dust Deputy - it is a very stretchy hose that stretches from about 2-3 feet to 12 feet.  I manually move the hose from tool to tool as necessary when I am working in the shop.  Most of them had a 2-1/2 inch port anyway, but a couple (like my bandsaw) needed a 4 inch to 2-1/2 inch adapter. I also have a claw tool and regular floor tool that I hook to the hose to clean up any chips and over-spray from the various machines.

With hoses, adapters, fittings, the Shop Vac and the Dust Deputy, I have less than $500 tied up in the whole System.  If I had the room, I would have loved to have a full size 4-inch system, and I am sure that a 4-inch system would be more efficient, but considering the limited space I have I am very happy with the compromise I made. The hardest part is maintaining the discipline to move the hose around and switch on the vacuum when I am only going to make a quick cut on something.  There are lots of systems, options and ideas out there - I'm sure with patience and research you will find a system that is ideal for you and your situation.

Regards,
Dave



(Click to Expand)


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## leehljp (Jul 1, 2020)

Where were all of you 13 years ago when the CA allergies hit me like 2x4 up beside the head? Great advice above. One of the best group of ideas  to date. 

I lived in Japan for 25+ years and had a small shop in each of 3 places I lived (Tokyo, Osaka and Toyota City, [Nagoya]) It took me 30 minutes to get all of my tools out to make a project and 30 minutes to put it up, plus I couldn't do any of it after dark because of the noise and the neighbors homes 6 - 8 ft from ours.

I bought a Makita DC system that was the equivalent in size to Rocklers 650 and it was sufficient for me over there. I actually bought it take suck in the CA fumes and CA dust as much as anything else.

 I had to move the hose around (no "Y" splitters - direct hookup) and it worked OK with the BS,  and TS. I kept it mounted under my lathe though as that was its primary purpose.


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## Jonkou (Jul 1, 2020)

One stays with the sander and the other goes where it’s needed.  6 ft. of 4” hose, 1hp, 115 VAC, works well.  Also filter the air to get the harmful airborne contaminants.  All on wheels in a dedicated basement shop.  Only down side is the noise so just crank the stereo louder.  Clean the shop after every work day with a broom and shop vac too, easy to keep clean if you keep up with it and most importantly the wife stays happy cuz I don’t track it upstairs.


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## KenB259 (Jul 1, 2020)

Here’s what I have. A door to isolate my shop from the rest of the basement. Homemade air filter. Rockler 650 CFM, made portable, with a Rockler quick change handle. Rockler 1250 CFM attached to table saw and bandsaw with blast gates. Both rockers have the 5 micron bag. I will probably splurge on the pleated filter for the 1250. Rikon air cleaner over the table saw. Was at work earlier so here are the pictures of what I described. Pretty happy with how the work. I would not have bought the 650 Rockler, if they would have had the bigger one at the time, dust on the bandsaw is because I forgot to open the blast gate. 














Sent from my iPhone using Penturners.org mobile app


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## EricRN (Jul 2, 2020)

KenB259 said:


> Here’s what I have. A door to isolate my shop from the rest of the basement. Homemade air filter. Rockler 650 CFM, made portable, with a Rockler quick change handle. Rockler 1250 CFM attached to table saw and bandsaw with blast gates. Both rockers have the 5 micron bag. I will probably splurge on the pleated filter for the 1250. Rikon air cleaner over the table saw. Was at work earlier so here are the pictures of what I described. Pretty happy with how the work. I would not have bought the 650 Rockler, if they would have had the bigger one at the time, dust on the bandsaw is because I forgot to open the blast gate. View attachment 241569View attachment 241570View attachment 241571View attachment 241572View attachment 241573View attachment 241574
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Penturners.org mobile app


Ken, I like the box you built with the furnace filters. Cool idea and nice looking box. It looks classier than most of my furniture!


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## EricRN (Jul 2, 2020)

Thanks again to all for the really great ideas and advice here.  This is going to require some thought and some research.  I started designing the bench on sketchup last night (I'm not too good with it, and haven't used it much at all), but I wanted to give this a go there to map out a rough sketch of how this would work.  It'll probably also identify some issues that are better to figure out now than after I've started making cuts!  That process alone will probably take me awhile.


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## keithncsu (Jul 2, 2020)

KenB259 said:


> Here’s what I have. A door to isolate my shop from the rest of the basement. Homemade air filter. Rockler 650 CFM, made portable, with a Rockler quick change handle. Rockler 1250 CFM attached to table saw and bandsaw with blast gates. Both rockers have the 5 micron bag. I will probably splurge on the pleated filter for the 1250. Rikon air cleaner over the table saw. Was at work earlier so here are the pictures of what I described. Pretty happy with how the work. I would not have bought the 650 Rockler, if they would have had the bigger one at the time, dust on the bandsaw is because I forgot to open the blast gate. View attachment 241569View attachment 241570View attachment 241571View attachment 241572View attachment 241573View attachment 241574
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Penturners.org mobile app


@KenB259 where did you get the fan/blower for the homemade filter box.  Is that just a regular (though smaller) squirrel cage fan? Or did you buy something with specific specs?  I'd like to work something up similar.  Thank you for sharing the pictures!!


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## KenB259 (Jul 2, 2020)

keithncsu said:


> @KenB259 where did you get the fan/blower for the homemade filter box.  Is that just a regular (though smaller) squirrel cage fan? Or did you buy something with specific specs?  I'd like to work something up similar.  Thank you for sharing the pictures!!


I t was just a small blower I found on Amazon, just a small version of what you would find in furmaces. The homemade box works very well, easy to make too and I can roll it around, it has wheels on the bottom.


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## KenB259 (Jul 2, 2020)

This is the exact one I bought.


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## magpens (Jul 2, 2020)

@KenB259  ....

Thanks for the detailed info and pics !!

You certainly are amazingly thorough, well organized, and tidy  !!  .... not to mention .. DUST-FREE !! .


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## keithncsu (Jul 2, 2020)

Awesome @KenB259!  Thank you for the info!  Since it isn't some specific woodworking/dust extraction related one, I'm thinking of looking for one on Craigslist/Marketplace.  Even if it is larger.  Just means my box has to be bigger .


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## KenB259 (Jul 2, 2020)

keithncsu said:


> Awesome @KenB259!  Thank you for the info!  Since it isn't some specific woodworking/dust extraction related one, I'm thinking of looking for one on Craigslist/Marketplace.  Even if it is larger.  Just means my box has to be bigger .


Nope, just has to be able to pull air in and blow it out the filters. It really does do an excellent job. I did not skimp on the filters. Make sure you buy the filters you want to use first, in a common size, and build it to fit them.


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## bobrotondo (Jul 2, 2020)

EricRN said:


> Hmm.  This is all some really good advice.  I didn't appreciate all this--especially the point about the smaller dust hanging in the air for hours.  Makes sense; I just didn't think of it.  I've got zero dust collection now (obviously).  I always just work with the garage door open (wearing a mask) and then blow/sweep most of it out when I'm done.  But with my wife and kids going in and out of the garage on the daily, I wonder if I need to make dust collection more of a priority.  Probably not a huge issue, but I'd rather not be the reason anyone in my family gets sick.  I'll do some searches.  I don't have a 220V circuit available to me out in the garage, so hopefully I can get something with enough draw to on 120V.  Sounds like blast gates aren't optional.  This is going to require some thoughtful design.  But that's part of what makes woodworking enjoyable for me.  Coming up with simple, elegant solutions to complicated, multi-variable problems.


log in to the Australian Woodworkers site and you will find a lot of great advice re dust extraction, there is a lot of experienced information


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## randyrls (Jul 3, 2020)

Eric;  There are several router tables that will mount in place of one of the table saw wings.  Incra makes some very nice extensions (pricey!) but good.

As far as the electrical goes, I have two circuits in the shop.  One supplies lights, the other is for tools.  You don't want  to be in the dark with a running power tool.  Check what circuits you have with a simple plugin tester and turn off the breakers one by one until you find which circuits go to which outlets.  Have an electrician check to see if you can add separate breakers for different outlets.



EricRN said:


> So here's my plan.  I'm going to custom design and build something, maybe 36 inches by 8 feet or so, that will house the table saw on one end, the router on the other.  (Another issue is amperage.  I'm concerned that if I include the shop vac style on the workbench itself, I won't have enough amperage to power the dust collector and the table saw/planer/router without tripping the breaker.  Most of the tools I'd be housing on the workbench have a 15A draw, and I think the max on my breakers is 20A or so.  I do have two separate circuits in the garage, though, so at least with wall mounted, I can plug that into one circuit and the workbench into the other.)


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## Swagopenturner (Jul 3, 2020)

Try moving your workshop outside instead of moving the cars.  It will reduce the amount of dust dramatically!


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