# Sierra Button Click Extension??



## Randy_ (May 10, 2009)

I have not seen any discussion of this little bugger since the kit was first introduced a while ago so I thought I would see if I had missed any updated info on it.

Problem with the extension is that it does not fit the Parker brand refill properly.....or at least it didn't used to. The plastic piece on the end of the Parker refill is slightly different than the same piece on all of the clone Parker refills I have seen. On the clones, the hole in the end of the piece is molded all the way though the piece and the little tit on the end of the extension fits into it perfectly. On the Parker brand refills that I have seen, however, that little hole is not a hole; but rather just a dimple and the little extension tit will not fit into it properly.

There are several ways to deal with problem....none exactly 100% ideal, IMO. Anyone know if Berea has done anything about this situation or must we continue to have to work around this minor annoyance??


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## hewunch (May 10, 2009)

I always put the little piece up into the click. Didn't know it was supposed to go the other way. I have had 0 problems with that.


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## Randy_ (May 10, 2009)

That is what I did at first, too, Hans; but that doesn't really make any sense.  If you use the extension that way there is really no need for the little tit at all and since that is an extra machining step, they would just not have created it in the first place.  
 
Some time after my initial puzzlement about the extension, I saw a picture.....probably on the Berea website.....showing the extension with the tit stuck in the end of a refill.  That makes some sense.......it causes the extension to be somewhat firmly attached to the refill so it won't be as likely to be lost when removing a refill for replacement.
 
Also, if you look carefully, using the extension as you suggest, makes the tip of the refill stick out of the pen by another half mm or so.  Not a big deal for most people, probably; but I don't like the tip to stick out too far and it does bug me.


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## bruce119 (May 10, 2009)

Now dawg dowg I got to go out a buy a real parker refill from Staples and see. I use this kit quite a bit and like it. Only problem I never actually got a real parker refill and tried it. I got the refills from Perry and his works fine they look the same as the kit.

I will buy a refill this afternoon. I sold quite a few and if I get a call I want to be prepared. I will be interested in seeing what others have to say.

Bruce


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## hrigg (May 10, 2009)

Unless I intend the pen to be used with a rollerball refill and sell it as a rollerball, I use tubes for the regular sized Sierra and refills from Fisher and put the extension in a drawer in case someone asks for it.


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## bruce119 (May 10, 2009)

hewunch said:


> I always put the little piece up into the click. Didn't know it was supposed to go the other way. I have had 0 problems with that.


 
Well I went to staples and bought a Parker refill. Holy cow do you know how much those things cost  sure you do. 

Any way Randy your rite I never knew. I see 2 options with the stock size tube. Either grind about 1/2 the tit off of the extension or turn it around like hewunch says. It works just fine turned around. I think I will go back and turn all my extensions around. So when the customer goes to change it they just put it back together the same way. At least now if I get a call from some one saying my refill don't fit I know the fix. Also did you know the "Parker" is about 1mm shorter that the kit refill not too noticeable.

I'm glad this subject came up. 
Bruce


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## Randy_ (May 10, 2009)

bruce119 said:


> ......
> Any way Randy your rite I never knew. I see 2 options with the stock size tube. Either grind about 1/2 the tit off of the extension or turn it around like hewunch says. It works just fine turned around........Also did you know the "Parker" is about 1mm shorter that the kit refill not too noticeable......


 
Only problem with grinding the tit is the extension does not fit a snugly as it does at full length so there is still some chance the extension will fall out and be lost. Same objection to the "turn around" dodge. I agree with those who would say it is a small problem.....but a problem nonetheless and one that the manufacturer should not have presented to us!!


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## devowoodworking (May 10, 2009)

That's funny this came up...I was just today trying to fix a sierra button click to no avail  Just couldn't get it to stay clicked, this kit seems far too much of a hassle to be worth it:frown:


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## Randy_ (May 10, 2009)

hrigg said:


> Unless I intend the pen to be used with a rollerball refill and sell it as a rollerball, I use tubes for the regular sized Sierra and refills from Fisher and put the extension in a drawer in case someone asks for it.


 
I don't quite understand this comment??  Even the tube for the standard Sierra is too long to use with the button click kit and a Parker refill??


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## Randy_ (May 10, 2009)

devowoodworking said:


> That's funny this came up...I was just today trying to fix a sierra button click to no avail Just couldn't get it to stay clicked, this kit seems far too much of a hassle to be worth it:frown:


 
John:  All of the comments I have seen about the Sierra Button Click suggest it is a reliable mechanism.  Have you had other problems with this kit??  
 
Did you use the stock length tube or did you shorten it for "Parker Only" operation?


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## devowoodworking (May 10, 2009)

Randy_ said:


> John: All of the comments I have seen about the Sierra Button Click suggest it is a reliable mechanism. Have you had other problems with this kit??
> 
> Did you use the stock length tube or did you shorten it for "Parker Only" operation?


 
Far be it for me to complain, I've only made one before without any issue...but this one just won't work.  I used the stock tube, without any modification


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## devowoodworking (May 10, 2009)

Randy, do you happen to have the stock tube length dimension?  I'd like to check it against my finished blank:wink:


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## Randy_ (May 10, 2009)

2.423"±, IIRC.  Let me check, to be sure


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## hrigg (May 10, 2009)

Randy_ said:


> I don't quite understand this comment??  Even the tube for the standard Sierra is too long to use with the button click kit and a Parker refill??



The Fisher comes with its own extension.  A plastic one that slips over the end of the refill.  In use or carrying it in your shirt pocket, the extension will warm up and slip down too far, so that the nib will not stay extended when you try to write.  To solve this problem, I took a 3/16" diameter nylon roller pin, cut 1/4" off of it, and stuck the small piece down inside the extension. I used a standard Wallstreet II tube (a white one, actually), and the Fisher refill fits it very nicely.  I've removed the refill several times and had more trouble dropping the spring than that plastic extension.  The little plastic stub inside the extension does not come out easily, and wouldn't come out at all with a little of the proper adhesive.  The pen is shorter than the standard click, but not as short as one that's been modified to fit the Parker refill without the chrome stub.  I've used it for awhile without any problems.  I believe the pen is in my photo album.  If not, it will be.


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## Randy_ (May 10, 2009)

Thanks, Harry.  Your use of the Fisher refill did not register when I read your original comment.


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## jttheclockman (May 10, 2009)

Man I just got some of these on the last group buy and with all this talk about cutting things and leaving things out is making my head spin. I am going to have to experiment with this kit. I should have ordered extra tubes because I see I am going to need them. Sometimes these pen companies make things just rediculous as they try to be different than the other guy. Look at how many simple bic click pens there are. Simple is better. Why can the manufactorers get this through their heads. This does not make for more sales and in fact it may make for less sales.


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## Randy_ (May 10, 2009)

devowoodworking said:


> That's funny this came up...I was just today trying to fix a sierra button click to no avail *Just couldn't get it to stay clicked,* this kit seems far too much of a hassle to be worth it:frown:


 
Hard to know exactly what the problem is from long distance; but there are two things I would try.  First, would be to stretch the spring a little so there is more pressure exerted on the click mechanism.

Other thing would be to put a single drop of a light machine oil like 3-in-1 oil or maybe a drop of mineral oil in the mechanism to see if a little lube will help

If nothing works, contact the vendor and request a replacement.


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## KenV (May 10, 2009)

The Sierra Click is made for the Uniball refill, and the parker and extension are a "cheap compromise".    I just package the pen with a couple of Uniball refills and all is good.  The same office stores handle both the Uniball and the Parker for about the same price (Staples, Office Depot).

If you shorten a Sierra tube to 1.882 it will use the click mechanism with a standard parker refill in it.  I have cycled a few chipped or end damaged standard sierra tubes to a parker click pencil this way.  It recovers a nice piece of work for a second chance.  Stabalized spalted woods are the most prone to this happening and still look good a little shorter.  It is also a bit closer match to the click pencil in length if you like the closer size for pen-pencil sets.   

The fisher mod works too, but the Fisher refills seem to be a bit less common than the Uniball, and still has an adapter to lose.

My suggestion -- get rid of the parker work around and for the price of the pen make it a uniball pen.


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## hunter-27 (May 10, 2009)

Cut tube to 1.882, throw the extention in the trash, don't look back.


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## W.Y. (May 10, 2009)

Interesting topic.
I have made dozens of  Berea  Sierra click top pens and  have yet to have a problem with the mechanism but as far as the refill goes nobody has contacted me yet about a replacement not working so they have probably not used up that big Parker style refill  yet. . This topic will give me some  ideas for when it does happen.  Click top pens are fast  becoming my best sellers compared to twist pens.  I found that out real quick when I started using the PSI Bullet Cartridge  kits and displaying those pens   along with my home brew kits. Most don't mind paying 10 bucks extra for click top and Parker style refil and lifetime guarantee on plating .


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## devowoodworking (May 10, 2009)

Randy_ said:


> 2.423"±, IIRC. Let me check, to be sure


 
Thanks Randy!

Turns out I did use the wrong tube (insert expletives here______)  Time to get another tube and use this one on a regular twist sierra:wink:


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## JerryS (May 11, 2009)

I just grind half the tip off , no problems with it falling out . Stays in there nice and tight.


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## Randy_ (May 11, 2009)

Hmmmmmm??  I've got 5 or 6 Parker brand refill around the house and I've checked all of them.  Everyone has a hole so large that the tip is loose in it and will fall out if the refill is turned upside down.
 
Jerry:  Can you measure the diameter of the **** on your extensions?  Mine measure 0.076".  I wonder if Berea has started making the **** fatter or maybe I have some that are undersized?
 
I guess another possibility is that you are leaving a little burr on the end of the tit when you grind it off and that is what is keeping the extension in the hole??


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## W.Y. (May 11, 2009)

I just received some of these Berea kits and some of these blanks in the mail today. Turned this one after lunch. 
The tip on the extension fit all the way into the refill nice and snug and would not fall out if turned upside down.
If Berea did have a problem previously it would appear as if they have now corrected it.


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## Randy_ (May 11, 2009)

William;  I think you may have missed the point.
 
The extensions have always worked just fine with the clone refills that come with the kits.  The problem lies with the brand refills actually manufactured by Parker!!


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## W.Y. (May 11, 2009)

Randy_ said:


> William; I think you may have missed the point.
> 
> The extensions have always worked just fine with the clone refills that come with the kits. The problem lies with the brand refills actually manufactured by Parker!!


 
OKY DOKY Randy.

Tho Thorry :biggrin:

Thanks for pointing that out . I will do a little backtracking and reading  of  previous posts on this one.


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## bruce119 (May 11, 2009)

William O Young said:


> OKY DOKY Randy.
> 
> Tho Thorry :biggrin:
> 
> Thanks for pointing that out . I will do a little backtracking and reading of previous posts on this one.


 
Nice looking pen but as Randy pointed out and I was unaware also. You need to put yourself in your customers shoes go out and buy a real "Parker" refill and you will see the extension will not work like the clone.


Bruce


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## KenV (May 12, 2009)

Are you experencing this as a 1) common problem with customers; 2) on occasional comment from customers;  3) a theoretical problem that might happen?

Seems to be mostly a theoretical discussion -- I use uniballs and avoid the issue.


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## bruce119 (May 12, 2009)

KenV said:


> Are you experencing this as a 1) common problem with customers; 2) on occasional comment from customers; 3) a theoretical problem that might happen?
> 
> Seems to be mostly a theoretical discussion -- I use uniballs and avoid the issue.


 
In my case it is theoretical. But I believe that is because my customers have not used up the kit refill yet. I have not been selling them long only 2 seasons now. But I have been telling the customer to replace with a standard Parker refill unaware of this issue till now.

Bruce


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## Randy_ (May 12, 2009)

KenV said:


> Are you experiencing this as a 1) common problem with customers; 2) on occasional comment from customers; 3) a theoretical problem that might happen?
> 
> Seems to be mostly a theoretical discussion -- I use uniballs and avoid the issue.


 
Ken:  It is more of a theoretical question for me too in an effort to identify and avoid future potential problems.....and also an effort to make others aware of the potential problem.  (I don't sell enough pens to know if this is a big problem for customers.  This was also part of the reason for this thread......to see what other pencrafters were experiencing.)

I agree that using the uni-ball or G2 refill will avoid the problem; but that does not address the issue of those customers who have a strong preference for the Parker refill and will not be talked into switching. Don't know what percentage of the market that might be; but there will certainly be some!!.

One thing to ponder is if the manufacturer intended for the primary refill for this kit to be the uni-ball type refill, why didn't they include that refill with the kit rather than a Parker clone??


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## JerryS (May 12, 2009)

Randy_ said:


> Hmmmmmm??  I've got 5 or 6 Parker brand refill around the house and I've checked all of them.  Everyone has a hole so large that the tip is loose in it and will fall out if the refill is turned upside down.
> 
> Jerry:  Can you measure the diameter of the **** on your extensions?  Mine measure 0.076".  I wonder if Berea has started making the **** fatter or maybe I have some that are undersized?
> 
> I guess another possibility is that you are leaving a little burr on the end of the tit when you grind it off and that is what is keeping the extension in the hole??




Randy 

I will say my kits are WC Wall Street 2 . The diameter of both ( kit comes with two ) are the same 0.077" .  The uncut length is 0.191" and my ground down ones are 0.088" or 0.086" give or take . 

They fit tight in fact I can turn them underside down and the thing doen't fall out .   Tried it with both the Parker Gel and regular Parker , I can feel a slight burr on the ground down version .   Hope this helps .


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## Randy_ (May 12, 2009)

Thanks, Jerry.  Not quite sure why we are seeing a different result; but I am glad you have found a simple solution that works for you.
 
Bruce:  If you see this, maybe you can grind down one of your extensions and see if that technique works for you?
 
I will note that all of the Parker refills that I tested were several years old.  Maybe Parker has changed the geometry of that little hole and the new ones are a little smaller than the old ones?


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## bruce119 (May 13, 2009)

Randy_ said:


> Thanks, Jerry. Not quite sure why we are seeing a different result; but I am glad you have found a simple solution that works for you.
> 
> Bruce: If you see this, maybe you can grind down one of your extensions and see if that technique works for you?
> 
> I will note that all of the Parker refills that I tested were several years old. Maybe Parker has changed the geometry of that little hole and the new ones are a little smaller than the old ones?


 
Actually I just went out and ground 2 down. And I even tapered the bur off. And one fits fairly nice wont fall out when turned up side down the other fit but did fall out when turned upside down. If I left the bur on it would defiantly fit snug. Another thing I noticed it seems there is a very slight increase in diameter on the tit about 1/16 or a little less from the shoulder. And I mean slight like about 1/2 a thous. I just tried the ground down extension back in the kit refill and it fits loser than the parker. Go figure the kit refill needs the full length to grab the tit. The Parker after grinding actually fit tighter. The Parker refill I am using is the New Improved black med. B.P. and I also got the Parker Gel and get the same identical results.

It's late that's all can do for now.

Good night
Bruce


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## Randy_ (May 13, 2009)

bruce119 said:


> .....Another thing I noticed it seems there is a very slight increase in diameter on the tit about 1/16 or a little less from the shoulder. And I mean slight like about 1/2 a thous.....


I just measured up a couple of the extensions I have and they measure exactly like yours do, Bruce. Slightly larger at the base of the tit by about half a thou.




bruce119 said:


> .....I just tried the ground down extension back in the kit refill and it fits loser than the parker. Go figure the kit refill needs the full length to grab the tit......


Just a guess on my part as I don't have the tools to measure it; but I suspect the hole in the end of the clone refill is slightly tapered and gets a little smaller at the bottom of the hole. Thus the farther into the hole the tit penetrates, the tighter the fit. When you grind off half of the tit, it only penetrates the upper section of the hole which has the larger diameter and thus a looser fit.

I think the same is true for the hole in the Parker refill. I never actually ground off a tit and stuck it in the hole, just used the extension stock. There is a distinct taper (about 30°) on the last 1mm of the tit which gets removed when the tit is grind off. This effectively increases the diameter of the tit at the point where the Parker hole is the narrowest.....the bottom. I bet that explains why the ground tit fits the Parker refill and the stock seems not to. And, of course, if you leave a little burr on the end of the tit, the fit will be even more secure.

Still a little work to be done here before an ideal solution is achieved; but as it stands, I would grind off the tit and stick it in the clone refill that comes with the kit with a drop of CA so it stays in place. When that refill runs dry, presumably the owner will run out to Office Depot and buy a branded Parker refill and the ground extension should fit it pretty well.

Personally, I prefer the uni-ball/G2 refills and I will push those with my customers like Ken suggested; but for the guy who absolutely will not switch from the Parker, maybe this is a workable solution.

Still wonder why Berea includes the Parker clone with the kit rather than a uni-ball clone??

Thanks for the insight guys!!


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## wdcav1952 (May 13, 2009)

Randy_ said:


> Hmmmmmm??  I've got 5 or 6 Parker brand refill around the house and I've checked all of them.  Everyone has a hole so large that the tip is loose in it and will fall out if the refill is turned upside down.
> 
> Jerry:  Can you measure the diameter of the **** on your extensions?  Mine measure 0.076".  I wonder if Berea has started making the **** fatter or maybe I have some that are undersized?
> 
> I guess another possibility is that you are leaving a little burr on the end of the tit when you grind it off and that is what is keeping the extension in the hole??



Someone please remind me that I don't need to comment on this post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:devil:


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## jttheclockman (May 13, 2009)

wdcav1952 said:


> Someone please remind me that I don't need to comment on this post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:devil:


 

Speak your mind. It is an open forum.


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## JerryS (May 13, 2009)

Do the other kits also come with two extensions like the Wall Street 2s ?


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## artistwood (May 13, 2009)

i'm so confused!  i was thinking of making the sierra click but.............
are they a good pen or a bad investment? i only want to do quality pens and i like the looks of this one but after all these discussions, i wonder if i can do them without a lot of problems???  extentions, some extension, nubs, holes......like i said..............I'M SO CONFUSED!!!


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## bruce119 (May 13, 2009)

JerryS said:


> Do the other kits also come with two extensions like the Wall Street 2s ?


 
There the same kit different name. They all start with Berea.



artistwood said:


> i'm so confused! i was thinking of making the sierra click but.............
> are they a good pen or a bad investment? i only want to do quality pens and i like the looks of this one but after all these discussions, i wonder if i can do them without a lot of problems??? extentions, some extension, nubs, holes......like i said..............I'M SO CONFUSED!!!


 
I have done many of these kits and like them very much. Like any kit it can be modified. The **** on the extension is something that the manufacture should have addressed better. But it is easy to work around or work with. As pen makers that is what we do as a pen maker this shouldn't really be that confusing. I am grateful for this forum and the wealth of information. I will continue to use the Sierra Click I consider it one of the most reliable clicks I have tried. Also I like the Long Click it has been very reliable but that's another story.

Bruce


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## artistwood (May 13, 2009)

thanks.....i feel better now!   Long Click????


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## Randy_ (May 13, 2009)

artistwood said:


> i'm so confused! i was thinking of making the sierra click but.............
> are they a good pen or a bad investment? i only want to do quality pens and i like the looks of this one but after all these discussions, i wonder if i can do them without a lot of problems??? extensions, some extension, nubs, holes......like i said..............I'M SO CONFUSED!!!


 
These are very nice kits and one of the relatively reliable click kits.  There is no problem if you use only the uni-ball/G2 refill or shorten the barrel for the Parker cartridge so the ext. is not necessary.  Only difficulty arrives when you opt for the flexibility of going either way and use the ext.  
 
For right now, the best solution would seem to be to increase your inventory a little and have clicks in both lengths...one for each refill style.....and eliminate the need for the extension which many folks have already done.


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## KenV (May 13, 2009)

[One thing to ponder is if the manufacturer intended for the primary refill for this kit to be the uni-ball type refill, why didn't they include that refill with the kit rather than a Parker clone??[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/QUOTE]


Cost and Trademark are probably two reasons ---  Still like those long click pens though.


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## W.Y. (May 13, 2009)

> I have done many of these kits and like them very much. Like any kit it can be modified. The **** on the extension is something that the manufacture should have addressed better. But it is easy to work around or work with. As pen makers that is what we do as a pen maker this shouldn't really be that confusing. I am grateful for this forum and the wealth of information. I will continue to use the Sierra Click I consider it one of the most reliable clicks I have tried.


 
I couldn't have said it better.
The Sierra click top is fast becoming my best selling pen over any of the twist types . Will be quite a while before any of my customers have used up all the ink in those nice big refills but when they do I will be prepared   due to suggestions on this and other sites.
As long as the main parts  of  the  kit is made to the Berea high standards rather than the inferior quality of some of the "bargain priced" copys  we won't have too much to worry about  with a little refill discrepency .
I check this site almost  every day but don't participate   very often  only because I am a very busy person with my own woodworking and my own woodworking   discussion boards  site  and following a few other smaller sites sites as well that are not as time consuming to get  involved in as the bigger sites. . .  I am registered  in some others   as a read only lurker because there is always lots to learn even if a person doesn't have time to participate. . 
24 hour days are just not long enough . :biggrin:


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## Randy_ (May 13, 2009)

KenV said:


> [One thing to ponder is if the manufacturer intended for the primary refill for this kit to be the uni-ball type refill, why didn't they include that refill with the kit rather than a Parker clone??[/color][/size][/font]


 

*Cost and Trademark are probably two reasons* --- Still like those long click pens though.[/quote]

I'll bet there is a clone of that particula6r refill that would address both of those issues.


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