# Opinions



## jleiwig (Dec 9, 2009)

Ok...so it's soon to be new lathe time as soon as the holidays are over.  Best I can figure is I'm going to have around $700 to play with.  

I figure on 3 or 4 possible choices

1.) the new delta midi at 599.99-woodcraft
2.) Jet 1236 at 749.99-woodcraft
3.) Rikon Mini at 299.99-woodcraft
4.) Guinnea pig the new PSI Commander lath at $400

They are also ranked in order of how well I liked the machine. Really it should be 2a and 2b for the Jet/Rikon as they about equal on the likablility scale. 

Here are the pluses and minuses

Delta-no minuses that I can see, all pluses.  Would be superior to the Jet 1236 if I added a bed extension at roughly same price.

Jet 1236  Pluses-Biggest capacity out of the box minuses -3/4 hp motor, reeves drive versus true Variable speed, also most expensive on list.

Rikon Pluses-Lowest price out of all the lathes, good quality   Minuses- belt changing is a bear with fat fingers!, smallest hp motor on the list.

PSI Commander ----no real world info on it as of yet.  Looks nice and shiney.


Now all that said, what are your opinions and why?  I'd like real world based opinions (ie. people who have the above machines), not conjecture and speculation please.


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## glycerine (Dec 9, 2009)

Three questions:  What are you turning on now?  Do you have alot of tool and accessories (at least the ones you need) already?  Are you only looking at new lathes?


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## Russianwolf (Dec 9, 2009)

http://www.grizzly.com/products/7-x-12-Mini-Metal-Lathe/G8688


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## jleiwig (Dec 9, 2009)

Russianwolf said:


> http://www.grizzly.com/products/7-x-12-Mini-Metal-Lathe/G8688


 
Don't need a metal lathe.  Strictly wood only this time around. :biggrin:

I previously had a Jet 1220 which I sold to fund some other projects, along with all the accesories I had for it.  

I'm really leaning towards the Rikon due to the price/quality value leader factor.  

I would love the Delta, but I don't know if I can justify to myself the $600 price tag.  This will mainly be for shaving brushes, pens and bottle stoppers and maybe small gift boxes.  

Nothing large, that's why I'm leary of buying the Jet 1236.  Too much for what I want to do.  I know you can always turn smaller stuff on a larger lathe, but not the other way around, but I just wasn't a fan of big bowls when I tried them.

If I bought the Rikon, I'd have plenty left over for other tools...decisions decisions.


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## dow (Dec 10, 2009)

Well, I've got the Rikon, and I've been pleased with it.  Like you, I'm turning pens, and plan on doing shaving brushes and maybe some ornaments or small bowls at some point.  One thing to think about is that the lathe is only the beginning.  You'll also need:


a chuck
additional chuck jaws
pen mandrel
bushings
60 degree live center
60 degree dead center (if you're going to turn between centers)
chisels
a grinder (if you don't already have one)
sharpening jigs (if you don't already have them)
some kind of dust control (I use a phil thein separator and a shop vac)
micro mesh
CA of various thickness
pen sized drill bits (if you don't already have them)
pen mill
either a drill press and pen vise (or plan on drilling on the lathe)
face shield
respirator/dust mask
and probably some other stuff that I can't remember
After the Rikon and sales tax, you'll probably have around $350 to play with, and that will be pretty much eaten up by the stuff that I listed.  Based strictly dollars, I'd say that the Rikon is a good choice.

Hope this helps. :biggrin:


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## Wheaties (Dec 10, 2009)

I too have the Rikon and of what you have listed and plan on using it for, I would go with that. You won't be disappointed and the belt changing is really very fast once you get it down (even with fat fingers). So far with mine I see no down sides. I also bought the bed extension which is also nice- may need a little filing to get the tailstock to slide through.

All-in-all, in my opinion, it's your best bet!


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## jleiwig (Dec 10, 2009)

Thanks guys.  I've been down this road before remember, so I know what I need and don't need.  I'm just going to do it right this time around instead of cheaping out on everything or purchasing the latest must have item to realize that I'm not really that interested in it.  

The only decent item I purchased the first time around was the PSI collet chuck system Even though the JET lathe was the most expensive, I was never really happy with it.  The fit and finish wasn't as top notch as it should have been for the price that they ask.  Other than that it my stuff was all cheap or substandard stuff that just made things really frustrating to no end.  It made turning pens and such a very difficult and emotional process.  Call it a lesson learned and a new beginning if you will. 

I did send a guy on craigslist an email about a turncrafter pro vs.  If I can get that for the really cheap price I think I can well then that changes things a whole lot. I am offering a sub $200 price, so that would make it a pretty good deal, and he claims it's brand new.  

We'll see...he had it for sale a while ago and wouldn't come down on his price.  I wonder if he will now that it's almost Christmas time? 

If not, It's probably going to be the Rikon lathe.


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## jleiwig (Dec 11, 2009)

Well I just talked to the craigslist guy.  If everything is as he says it is, I'll be picking up a new turncrafter pro vs for a good deal IMO.   Just have to slip it in past the wifey sometime this weekend.


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## glycerine (Dec 11, 2009)

jleiwig said:


> Well I just talked to the craigslist guy. If everything is as he says it is, I'll be picking up a new turncrafter pro vs for a good deal IMO. Just have to slip it in past the wifey sometime this weekend.


 
Sounds like you've done this type of thing before!


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## jleiwig (Dec 11, 2009)

glycerine said:


> Sounds like you've done this type of thing before!


 
It's a cat and mouse game.  She knows I have yet to loose money on any tool purchase I've made, so I get to play with in my budget and she just shakes her head and gives me "the look".


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## dustmaker (Dec 11, 2009)

jleiwig said:


> It's a cat and mouse game.  She knows I have yet to loose money on any tool purchase I've made, so I get to play with in my budget and she just shakes her head and gives me "the look".



Hey, I think I've seen that "look"...only too often.  I was told the other day that, "the world does not revolve around pens".  LOL!:biggrin:  It doesn't?


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## jleiwig (Dec 11, 2009)

dustmaker said:


> Hey, I think I've seen that "look"...only too often. I was told the other day that, "the world does not revolve around pens". LOL!:biggrin: It doesn't?


 
Mine says that too..until she asks me to make a pen or a stopper for her friends.


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## Daniel (Dec 11, 2009)

Justin, I know you are not a new kid on the block so I am not considering other issues such as tooling etc that you will need. i suspect you are already very aware of those issues. With that in mind I also assume you made your list having already taken those issue into consideration. i also ready your later posts about how making compromises lead to discouragement. i also have suffered from this for a long time on lathe quality and still have issues with my drill press. bUt for the most part I have managed to replace all the equipment in my shop that was frustrating. I mention this to point out that I am very aware of what it is like to not have equipment live up to m preferences and I also know how much better I made decisions the second time around.
At this point in the discussion I would love to see you get the turncrafter. Even if it costs a bit more than you would like. It concerns me that the Rikon might be a compromise that starts you down that path of frustration again with the belt issue. I know for me ease of speed changing was a must when I selected my new lathe. I hate the time it takes to change belts and it just saps the fun out of turning for me. I think I hmay have made 6 pens all year until I got my new lathe. I then make nearly 3 dozen of them in three weeks and have 12 more setting on the bench drilled and glued right now. with 120 more waiting their turn. I know for me that speed changing thing was a huge issue. but that is me and may very well not apply to you. My final word is you kow very well what you want to do, what will do the job well and what is an issue for you and what is not. a $300 savings is worthless if it leaves you with a lathe you really don't want to fuss with and won't turn anything on.


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## dustmaker (Dec 11, 2009)

EXACTLY!  We're already discussing next year's Christmas gifts.  "Well, I already got so-and-so this thingy for this year, but can you make them a pen for next year?"  You have to know my wife, she tends to be very thrifty and shops all year long looking for bargains...and what better bargain than a free, hand crafted pen?  Note to self: remind the Mrs. (at the opportune time) how much all these free pens are costing. :wink:


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## dustmaker (Dec 11, 2009)

Daniel said:


> Justin, I know you are not a new kid on the block so I am not considering other issues such as tooling etc that you will need. i suspect you are already very aware of those issues. With that in mind I also assume you made your list having already taken those issue into consideration. i also ready your later posts about how making compromises lead to discouragement. i also have suffered from this for a long time on lathe quality and still have issues with my drill press. bUt for the most part I have managed to replace all the equipment in my shop that was frustrating. I mention this to point out that I am very aware of what it is like to not have equipment live up to m preferences and I also know how much better I made decisions the second time around.
> At this point in the discussion I would love to see you get the turncrafter. Even if it costs a bit more than you would like. It concerns me that the Rikon might be a compromise that starts you down that path of frustration again with the belt issue. I know for me ease of speed changing was a must when I selected my new lathe. I hate the time it takes to change belts and it just saps the fun out of turning for me. I think I hmay have made 6 pens all year until I got my new lathe. I then make nearly 3 dozen of them in three weeks and have 12 more setting on the bench drilled and glued right now. with 120 more waiting their turn. I know for me that speed changing thing was a huge issue. but that is me and may very well not apply to you. My final word is you kow very well what you want to do, what will do the job well and what is an issue for you and what is not. a $300 savings is worthless if it leaves you with a lathe you really don't want to fuss with and won't turn anything on.



Daniel, that is a very insightful post.  I have been doing wood working for many, many years longer than I have turned pens, and I generally have found what you say to be the truth.  Some of my greatest joys in working projects have either been from working with tools that get the job done without hassle, or creating the jigs that fill the voids.  But you have to know what you want to do and what can get it done within your budget.  Sometimes that takes doing it the wrong or hard way for a while to really understand what the more ideal solution is.  It may sound like I am rambling, but I guess what I am trying to say is that sometimes you just gotta make a decision and make the purchase that seems right at the time.  The best advice is to take care of your equipment, then you can reap some of the cost if you choose to sell and upgrade later.  There are still some areas in my shop I would like to improve upon, but I have to say over the years I have really filled out my shop well and hope someday to be able to move out of the garage into a real shop where I don't have to back the car out and move equipment around to get the job done!


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## jleiwig (Dec 11, 2009)

Thanks guys.  It's a hard lesson learned over time.  I was always the type of guy who looked at something and said I can do that and make it better and cheaper/quicker.  6 months later and many dollars poorer I either gave up in discouragement, or had a successful jig/tool/etc...but lost how much time in the process?  

At this point in my life with a stressful job, It's worthwhile to me to spend a bit more for products that work.  And while I don't expect the Turncrafter Pro VS to be a top quality machine, I feel that the price/value equation makes it attractive enough to attempt.  Now hopefully I can fit in getting the lathe and making a trip to Woodcraft to pick up my wolverine/grinder setup.


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## jleiwig (Dec 11, 2009)

well I drove out to the middle of nowhere and picked the turncrafter up.  It looks new, but I'll have to take it out and run it a bit to make sure it's good to go.

I haven't gotten into the house yet, still in the trunk.  Someone beat me home and she who must not be named is in a bad mood....I mean she who must be obeyed....wait....her, the boss! :biggrin:


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## glycerine (Dec 11, 2009)

jleiwig said:


> well I drove out to the middle of nowhere and picked the turncrafter up. It looks new, but I'll have to take it out and run it a bit to make sure it's good to go.
> 
> I haven't gotten into the house yet, still in the trunk. Someone beat me home and she who must not be named is in a bad mood....I mean she who must be obeyed....wait....her, the boss! :biggrin:


 
You may soon be taking another trip back to the middle of nowhere...


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## Smokey7385 (Dec 11, 2009)

I started with a Turncrafter Pro VS and while it is fine for making pens and small stuff for a beginner on a budget, the difference in quality and versitility between it and the Ricon, they should not even be mentioned in the same breath. For starters the Turncrafter uses a MT1, I "think" the Ricon uses the MT2 which opens it up for more accessories. I upgraded to the NOVA 1624-44 which uses the belt/pully system like the Ricon. I was concerned that I would really dislike the manual speed change but I can assure you that it is not an issue at all. 

My Turncrafter? It is sitting in the back room gathering dust. I can't even use it as my buffing station because of the MT1. On a positive note, it did get me started.


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## jleiwig (Dec 11, 2009)

Smokey7385 said:


> I started with a Turncrafter Pro VS and while it is fine for making pens and small stuff for a beginner on a budget, the difference in quality and versitility between it and the Ricon, they should not even be mentioned in the same breath. For starters the Turncrafter uses a MT1, I "think" the Ricon uses the MT2 which opens it up for more accessories. I upgraded to the NOVA 1624-44 which uses the belt/pully system like the Ricon. I was concerned that I would really dislike the manual speed change but I can assure you that it is not an issue at all.
> 
> My Turncrafter? It is sitting in the back room gathering dust. I can't even use it as my buffing station because of the MT1. On a positive note, it did get me started.


 
If you have the Turncrafter Pro VS, then it has MT2 in both the headstock and the tailstock according to PSI.  Are you sure you don't have the original Turncrafter?


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## rjwolfe3 (Dec 11, 2009)

My Turncrafter Pro VS is MT2 and I love it. I wish I had something bigger sometimes but quality wise it works great.


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## Daniel (Dec 12, 2009)

Justin, Got up this morning and had to search for this thread. it has been on my mind since yesterday. I am glad you got the Turncrafter. I really think it is the best compromise between high cost and being something that will work well for you. Now if you can just get your wife to understand that you can bring it in from the truck


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## jleiwig (Dec 12, 2009)

Got it all unpacked today. Didn't get the look though because she's already mad at me for other reasons I'm sure I didn't know I did in the first place.  It runs good and looks decent.  I'll have to look into replacing the chunky plastic handles for something either metal or something more streamlined.  The one that holds the turning rest to the bajo is too big so that it hits the rest when you tighten it down.  Other than that I'm very happy with it considering the price I paid for it.


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## rjwolfe3 (Dec 12, 2009)

If you figure out any good ways to improve that lathe, let me know so that I can improve mine too!


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## Smitty37 (Dec 13, 2009)

*Wife control....*

You just need an arrangement with your wife like I have with mine....I don't ask her what she spends on and don't tell her what I spend on and we're both happy.  Of course we are both reasonably conservative in our spending habits, which helps.


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## ablair (Dec 13, 2009)

you should make a poll


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## jleiwig (Dec 14, 2009)

Well bringing home the lathe plus really ticking her off cost me quite a bit this weekend. I think she got the better end of the deal personally, but meet the newest member of our family. This is Maggie! She's a Yorkie/Pekanese mix and turns 11 weeks old today. Sorry for the crappy Cell pic.  







So my $185 lathe and big mouth cost me a $300+ puppy plus all the trimmings.  Puppies are expensive!


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## rjwolfe3 (Dec 14, 2009)

Ouch but I bet it was worth it!


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## jleiwig (Dec 14, 2009)

rjwolfe3 said:


> Ouch but I bet it was worth it!


 
Oh Yeah..she's daddies little girl for sure. :biggrin:


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## dustmaker (Dec 14, 2009)

jleiwig said:


> Oh Yeah..she's daddies little girl for sure. :biggrin:



So if I am doing the math right, you  got a new lathe and something you BOTH enjoy!  Slick operating.  Congrats on both new additions.


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## jleiwig (Dec 14, 2009)

dustmaker said:


> So if I am doing the math right, you got a new lathe and something you BOTH enjoy! Slick operating. Congrats on both new additions.


 
SHHHH!!!!!!!....My wife might hear you and I'll be the one in the doghouse again!

If she thinks for a moment that I like the new dog I'm in deep trouble.  And if the dog likes me more than her...well....I don't want to think about it!


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## dow (Dec 14, 2009)

jleiwig said:


> And if the dog likes me more than her...well....I don't want to think about it!



You're doomed.  All animals like me better than anyone else in the family.  When Beth and I were dating.  Her cat, who was about 15 at the time, totally ignored her and followed me around like a puppy.  I've been accused of stealing the pets on every animal that's been in the house since, lol, and it just gets worse if I DON'T like the animal.

I just tell her that pets have great taste in people. :biggrin:


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## Jim15 (Dec 14, 2009)

Justin, congratulations on the new lathe and the puppy.


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## jleiwig (Dec 14, 2009)

Jim15 said:


> Justin, congratulations on the new lathe and the puppy.


 
Thanks Jim, probably would have been easier if I never sold the JET, but then I would never have learned what I really wanted out of this hobby.


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## Smokey7385 (Dec 14, 2009)

jleiwig said:


> If you have the Turncrafter Pro VS, then it has MT2 in both the headstock and the tailstock according to PSI.  Are you sure you don't have the original Turncrafter?



I stand corrected. I have the TurncrafterPlus. It has the MT1.


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