# A Penmakers Challenge Stage 1



## ldb2000

This is a modified slimline I made for the Penmakers Challenge . It is made with curly maple and a custom made centerband of pauduk . This entire pen was made on the lathe no saws were used to cut the blank or centerband . 
Remember this is a Challenge so it's time to put on your thinking caps and figure out how it was done . I will answer all questions but you might not always like my answers :devil: I will be posting how I made this one at the end of stage 1 .



 



Sorry for the crappy pictures but I really couldn't bend very long to focus manually so I had to use the auto focus .

Now let's have some fun and and get some better pens posted .


----------



## fernhills

Hmmmm!! Unless you chucked up a tree, a saw had to be used.  Whata ya mean ?  Carl


----------



## razor524

fernhills said:


> Hmmmm!! Unless you chucked up a tree, a saw had to be used.  Whata ya mean ?  Carl


  I would assume he means from the blank to the finished product.


----------



## David M

now saw , used a axe to cut the tree down


----------



## wolftat

I'm out of paduak, does that mean I can't play?


----------



## Dalecamino

I'm in trouble already !


----------



## PenMan1

This reminds me of Peterbuilt trucks. They have wrenches.... why don't they just use them


----------



## turbowagon

Nice pen.

So is the challenge to make one without a saw?  Or just replicate the modification using any method we figure out?


----------



## witz1976

Butch said it was done on the lathe no saws.  But he never said he didn't use a parting tool.  A thought maybe?


----------



## glycerine

Maybe pet termites helped...


----------



## masl

done it is this ok ???:laugh::laugh:


----------



## ed4copies

This entire pen was made on the lathe *no saws were used to cut the blank*  or centerband .

Sorry, Butch, I doubt that.
As Carl said, the tree won't fit on MY lathe.

Also, can we DRILL before we mount on the lathe???
Drillpress allowed, or drill on the lathe only??


If the "blank" is a given, there is no challenge so far.
ANY tool will square the ends.


----------



## turbowagon

I think the idea of these challenges is to show that there is more than one way to do something -- hence the focus away from tutorials.  And I think Butch purposely didn't use a saw to try a new method for doing a custom center band, perhaps to challenge himself.

I think it's okay to use a saw if you choose...  or not, for those that want to try to figure out how Butch did it.

Personally, I've never made a custom center band -- and I look forward to that challenge.  So I think I'm going to use a saw, as that would be the method that I think I'll achieve the best results.


----------



## Crashmph

PenMan1 said:


> This reminds me of Peterbuilt trucks. They have wrenches.... why don't they just use them



That is so sad, true, and funny all at the same time.


----------



## ldb2000

Ok are we going to play or play around ??? Instead of wasting time making ridiculous comments you should be making pens . If any of you really read the original posts I said there are many different ways of doing things . I don't care if you want to use a beaver to cut your blanks , the idea is to try different ways of doing things , to improve your skills . The type of materials don't matter , the way you do it don't matter , just make the stupid pen !!!! Sheeesh you guys need a tutorial on how to follow instructions ??? I spent time IN PAIN to make the pen , was I just wasting my time ???


----------



## ed4copies

Sorry, Butch, I was NOT trying to pick on you.

I did not understand what was being asked.  As I see the comments, seems like everyone else got the drift, so I will "butt out".  No sweat.


----------



## bgibb42

Got the bottom half of my pen done.  Got the top half glued up, but my daughter's crying, so I have to go feed her.  With any luck I'll have mine posted later tonight.


----------



## hewunch

OK here is my entry. On a designer. And it has 3 Blackwood bands. All done on the lathe (minus some of the gluing of course :biggrin


----------



## ldb2000

Sorry for the tirade guys but I mean .... really . Ed it's not a problem , I don't mind fooling around and when in this place you gotta expect it but 15 posts and only 2 serious ones ? 
Joe hit the nail on the head . I have never tried to do a centerband this way and that is what this challenge is all about , pushing your skills , learning new ways of doing things .


----------



## ldb2000

Cool pen Hans . Nice color combo .


----------



## PenMan1

Sorry for yanking you chain Butch. I'm at work, bored, and I can't wait to get home and make my challenge pen..... Just having a little fun in the meantime. Yes, I'm serious.... I just can't get to a lathe!  So...talking pens is the next best thing to making pens.


----------



## DurocShark

Is that the method I described in another thread last week?


----------



## ldb2000

DurocShark said:


> Is that the method I described in another thread last week?


 I'm not sure Don . Can you post a link to it , if it is it might help others .


----------



## DurocShark

Blech. I don't remember which thread it was. Let me go look...


----------



## DurocShark

Yeah, I can't find it. I probably imagined it. 

Here's the pen I had used as an example:






Glue up the blanks on the tubes, trim the blanks, chuck up the cap end and turn round. Part off whatever distance you want your CB to be from the end, then glue on new parts. I use CA and clamp it to make sure the joint is solid. Trim up and turn to desired shape.


----------



## hewunch

I would say that is close, but notice the extra maple between the layers of paduk in Butch's pen? To me getting that effect is the fun part. (ha, get it "part" :biggrin: ). Even more fun is getting the grain to match up. Here are some others I did that way.


----------



## ldb2000

Don , Thats kind of what I did but I used a thin slice of the parted maple as an accent . That was the hard part , parting off that thin slice of maple . The slice kept falling apart .


----------



## DurocShark

Thin CA to hold it together?


----------



## hewunch

DurocShark said:


> Thin CA to hold it together?



I used Med


----------



## DurocShark

arty:


----------



## ldb2000

Thanks Hans . That is exactly the effect I was trying for . It's that little extra effort that sets it apart from just a one piece centerband . I could have used a piece of acrylic in there but the maple from the body ties it all together .


----------



## ldb2000

Don if you mean thin CA to hold the slice together then yes that's what I did . It hardened the wood enough to part it very thin . I also gave the upper blank a sealing coat of thin CA to seal it so the the Paduk sanding dust didn't get into the light colored maple .


----------



## turbowagon

In your example, does the center band overlap the lower barrel, or is it flush?

- Joe


----------



## DurocShark

turbowagon said:


> In your example, does the center band overlap the lower barrel, or is it flush?
> 
> - Joe



 Me or Butch? 

For me, they're flush.


----------



## ldb2000

On mine it overlaps the the lower a little .


----------



## RAdams

ldb2000 said:


> Ok are we going to play or play around ??? Instead of wasting time making ridiculous comments you should be making pens . If any of you really read the original posts I said there are many different ways of doing things . I don't care if you want to use a beaver to cut your blanks , the idea is to try different ways of doing things , to improve your skills . The type of materials don't matter , the way you do it don't matter , just make the stupid pen !!!! Sheeesh you guys need a tutorial on how to follow instructions ??? I spent time IN PAIN to make the pen , was I just wasting my time ???


 


On second thought, I think i will pass on this challenge. I am famous for saying stupid stuff, and the tone of this challenge is just too serious for me... I thought it was all about fun.


----------



## workinforwood

I interpret this to be a challenge.  Build a modified slim with centerband and do not use a saw to make the centerband as well do not use a barrel trimmer.  Everyone should have a drive spurr, so there should be no problem there.  A collet chuck is going to be the most convenient, but Butch does not have or does not use one..therefore it's a perfect opportunity to build your own jam chuck.  You spin a cone similar to the taper. You drill out the inside, you make a couple cuts in the end like an x.  The blank goes in the hole once it is round and you pound it home, the cuts will squeeze into the headstock holding the blank in place like a collet and the tailstock comes up to keep it from popping out.  Although for some of us, this is very basic stuff, it's amazing what you can learn from actually doing it.  It is good to think of different ways of approaching something because it expands the mind which will allow you to think of new ideas using this system that couldn't be done otherwise.  Or..maybe your chop saw broke and now you can't make a pen?  Yes you can.  If you don't have a drill chuck, I'm sure Butch would say use a drill press because there is no other way, but other than that, make an entire slim and centerband without cutting the centerband with a saw. By doing so, the barrel trimmer will not be needed either.

Here is mine.  I had to make a couple of these for a customer, so fortunately I had the inlay on top already set.  Because I did not use any saws of any kind <the inlay of course does not count as it's an add on and has nothing to do with constructing the pen from blocks of wood>, It took longer but I was able to nail the center of the lizard dead square and my centerbands always look good, but by doing them on the lathe they are flawless all the way around.  By cutting them on a chopsaw and then drilling with a drill press, sometimes the centerband looks perfect but if you measure it might be off by a millimeter as you go around the pen and the eye might not see it..this all happens because the drill bit might wander off just a hair while drilling causing the tube to not be perfectly square to the blank.  So it was a bit of a pain not using any saw to make my pen, but the end result is an improvement and the added time was probably worth it.  It only took me 2 hrs to make this pen by using the lathe only, and some of that time was spent carving the footprints.  I used a 7mm euro kit because I can't give the customer a flat top and slim clip, but otherwise it's the same thing. Started it before work, finished it when I got home.


----------



## rsmith

*Entry #1*

Well, lookee there, I learned something new on day 1:biggrin:  Fairly simple design, but in the spirit of the challenge, no saw blade was used in the creation of the CB.  Quitled Maple and Padauk, to stay true to the original pen.  While this isn't the most impressive use of the technique, by figuring out how to build the CB on the lathe with no saw, it took a huge amount of the guesswork and "eyeballing" out of the rings and made them MUCH more accurate.  This is something I will use quite a bit more, now that I know how to do it, in that it will allow me to do some more intricate stuff without sanding the tips of my fingers off getting things even:biggrin:  My technique used delrin, CA, and a parting tool.  Butch, I will be anxious to see what your technique was to accomplish this, and without spoiling the fun in the thread, I will be happy to answer any questions on the method I used through PM if anyone is interested.  Thanks for looking.
Sorry about the crappy cell phone pics, my real camera is not with me at the moment, but will be back for round 2


----------



## Craftdiggity

*Sweet Pen*

Pretty pen, Butch.  I can't get to mine until Monday, but I think I have the idea.  I have never modified a kit before, so this is a challenge for me right off the bat.  Don't anybody get so caught up in making your pen that you forget to buy Mothers Day flowers/cards.


Chris


----------



## ldb2000

Ron , I have no problem with playing around and this is going to be fun and the comments are part of it . My problem was that in the first 15 posts there were only 2 serious posts , you gotta admit thats a bit too much . While the fun is part of it some people actually want to learn as well . Make the fun comments but temper it with some useful information as well .
Jeff , thank you for the information . Some of those ideas will help the people that either don't have the equipment or want to try new ways of doing things . As I said in the original thread , " It's time to think outside the box " , to push your skills and learn new ones .


----------



## RAdams

You got two pages of jokes because nobody had a pen to post yet. I dont want to get into a debate about casual posts in the advanced forum. I just dont want to get reprimanded for trying to be funny or silly or whatever. 

My glue up is drying, and i might go ahead and post it. I will definately refrain from the joking around... at least in these threads.


ps. Thanks for making a pen with a sore back.


----------



## ldb2000

Rob , that is perfect . It seems like you used a similar technique to mine . I did mine on a mandrel but it can be done several different ways . I'm trying to do these challenges with the tools that are available to all of us . Great looking pen by the way .


----------



## skiprat

RAdams said:


> ps. Thanks for making a pen with a sore back.


 
It does look a bit sore and bent, doesn't it????:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::tongue:


How's the back healing Butch?? 

Why does our bodies come with most things in two's, but the serious bits are only ones????


----------



## rsmith

> I did mine on a mandrel but it can be done several different ways . I'm trying to do these challenges with the tools that are available to all of us .



Thanks, this was done on a mandrel as well, with a little help from some delrin for the CA


----------



## ldb2000

Thanks Steven . I'm feeling a little better , not as much pain and the meds are helping . I'm able to stand for a while but still spend more time sitting then turning . 
I do have to get better soon , I need to make some pens for stock but I'm not gonna rush it .


----------



## Phunky_2003

LOML wont allow any new beavers here.  

I should have one posted by Monday............ a pen, not a beaver.


----------



## ldb2000

Phunky_2003 said:


> LOML wont allow any new beavers here.
> 
> I should have one posted by Monday............ a pen, not a beaver.


 
Hmmmm , I'm not going there . I'll just get myself in trouble 
:foot-in-mouth:  :devil: :biggrin:


----------



## Phunky_2003

LOL no kidding we actually had a pet beaver for awhile.


----------



## Sylvanite

Ok, here's mine.  I had a little free time this afternoon and this is what I whipped up.  Curly maple and african blackwood.  Except for the (already cut) blanks, no saws were used.

Regards,
Eric


----------



## Phunky_2003

That's quite nice Eric.  The blackwood really sets off the maple.


----------



## ldb2000

Great looking pen Eric . Nice color combo . I used the Paduk because it was what I had on hand but the contrast is better with either Blackwood or Ebony .


----------



## ldb2000

For those that are trying this here's a hint . CA will harden the wood and make it easier to part off the small slices for the segments and will seal the grain so that a contrasting wood won't stain the lighter colored woods . When your blank is turned and ready to be parted give it a good soaking with thin CA . I actually partially finished my pen to seal the grain , then finished it after it was glued up .
Also by turning the blank and the wood for the centerband to size there will be much less sanding to be done .


----------



## bgibb42

After seeing all of the FANTASTIC pens posted so far, I'm a little reluctant to post mine as well, but here it is anyway.  I'm mostly pleased with it, I'll probably take it back out to the shop this weekend and fine-tune it a bit.  

Box elder with a pink ivory centerband.  Like some others, in the spirit of the challenge, I made this entirely on the lathe.  It does have a CA finish, though it didn't show up in the photos.  I was hoping for more streaking in the box elder, but such is life.


----------



## ldb2000

I think it looks fantastic . The mild grain of the wood highlights the craftsmanship of the centerband .


----------



## Mr Vic

Butch, understand we have 2 weeks to complete our pen?


----------



## ldb2000

Mr Vic said:


> Butch, understand we have 2 weeks to complete our pen?


 
Yes . I realize that many of us have other things to take up our time and since this is a learning experience not a contest I think we will need to do this in our leisure time . So not to rush anyone and give as many people a chance to join in as possible , 2 weeks should be enough time to complete some of the easier builds . The harder builds might be a little longer . The final build will be a nightmare and will definatly need more time .


----------



## mbroberg

Here's mine.  It's Oregon Myrtle and Bolivian Rosewood.  I made it from some cutoffs I had and the lower barrel is cut on a diagonal, which is why it is darker:frown:.  I parted off the Bol. Rosewood at 4mm.  The Oregon Myrtle in the centerband is 2mm.


----------



## ldb2000

Great looking pen Mike . I think the two different shades of the Myrtle add interest .


----------



## maxman400

OK Butch, I got your PM this morning at 2 am So here is my attempt, all done on the lathe. Pistachio with burnt copper PR for the bands with a copper slim line kit.
One question though:: did any one else besides me use a longer tube on the top to compensate for the kits center band not being there, or do you think it even matters???


----------



## ldb2000

Great job Max . I really like that wood , I don't think I've ever seen Pistachio wood . The extra length don't really matter . I think some have , I didn't . I used a regular length tube , there is enough room left for the tranny to go all the way in without the kit CB .


----------



## DurocShark

Some great stuff here guys! I'll get a round toit on one for this challenge when I get my bus ready to sell.


----------



## Craftdiggity

*Here's My Effort*

This is the first time I've modified a kit design, so be gentle.  I had no maple, so I went with Wenge and Paduak.  I also decided to add some more curve to mine, especially on the bottom.  The CB overlaps about midway through the center ring.  You can not tell it from the photo, (because all of my photos suck), but I also kicked the design up 1/10 of a notch by beading the rings.  They flattened out a bit on top as I was sanding and I didn't catch it until just now, but dems da breaks.  This is also the best CA finish I've ever applied.  I finally got a really high gloss, so I am happy on many levels.






Chris


----------



## ldb2000

It looks great Chris . Nice color combo between the body , CB and furniture . The shape is good , it adds interest without becoming a bulge or worse , pregnant . The overhang at the CB sounds a little too much , to keep strength at the segments you should always have the tube supporting them . Just a slight recess is enough to cover the gap between the barrels . That is in no way intended as a criticism of the pen , just a suggestion for a strong joint .
Fantastic first modification .


----------



## David Keller

Here is the first pen I've ever done that wasn't "by the book."

Satinwood with katalox...  All done on the lathe except the initial drilling(lazy) and cutting the initial blank in two for tubes(also lazy).

What do you think?


----------



## ldb2000

I think it's great . Your fit and finish look great , your photo skills need some help though :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin: . Actually the photo's not bad just your cropping .


----------



## David Keller

ldb2000 said:


> ...your photo skills need some help though :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin: ....



No doubt about that.  My wife usually does the photo taking, but I wanted to get it posted quickly.


----------



## ldb2000

Don't worry , this is a pen challenge from the photo challenged :biggrin:


----------



## Papa Bear

Here's what I came up with,it's made from bocote and cypress.This wasn't the most challenging pen for me but I did do things different,it was all done on the lathe with no saws or bushings.Thanks Bruce for doing this and making people think about how and what they are doing.


----------



## ldb2000

That looks fantastic . I like the segments , nice and thin . Nice color contrast on the woods and a good fit and finish .
I'm glad you enjoyed doing it . I'm quite sure that by the end everyone will want to lynch me cause they are going to get harder with each challenge and the last will be a nightmare .


----------



## turbowagon

Here's my submission.  Huon pine burl with African blackwood accents.







I cut the segments on the table saw and preglued them.  When drilling the upper barrel, I widened the hole a bit so that there is a little overlap between the barrels.


- Joe


----------



## ldb2000

That is an awesome looking pen Joe . I love the Huon Pine and the blackwood gives a great contrast . The furniture matches the blanks perfectly . Great job .


----------



## RAdams

Fresh off the lave!


Homebrew Pr with Exoticblanks Alt. Ivory center band on go/ti slim.As with most, i did the whole thing on the lathe. I really can claim NO SAWS!

Thanks for doing this Butch! This first round was alot of fun! Perfect warm up pen!!


----------



## ldb2000

Ron !!!  Glad to see you joined us ! Great job on your entry . Fantastic combo of Acrylic and alt ivory . Good to see you did it on the lathe , it adds an extra level of craftsmanship . While the average person couldn't tell the difference in how it is done .... we know and can appreciate the difference .


----------



## PenMan1

*Here is my challenge pen- Mont Verdi*

It is homebrew "precious resin" PR, with Exotic Faux Tortise, segmented with brass.  I shortened the top of the pen and lengthed the bottom barrel to give it a better balance. The bottom barrel is beveled where it meets the center band to give it a little "shape" I may change this. The top barrel is beveled at the clip ring to accent the ring and a tortise top "dodad" was added as a "why not"

No saws (unless Ed cut the Tortise rod with one), drill presses, pen mills, squares, hammers or REAL turtles were used to produce this pen.

Hey Ed.... A PR pen AND a free "plug" for the business

Sorry about the poor photo quality. We are currently working on the lighting setup.


----------



## Mr Vic

*My Version Of Challenge#1*

Started of my day with the intent of making an Imperial Tiger. After making inserts for my barrel trimmer I proceeded to drill the blanks and Ka Blewie - pieces all over the place. So I gathered up the usable pieces, rounded what I believe is a piece of Zebra wood and completed a pen for the challenge. I didn't use a saw but did use a repurposed saw blade. Its my thin mini parting tool. 5 minutes to make and works like a charm. Made a double ring centerband and added a ring to the nib end (on purpose, not a fixer ring). All trimming, drilling and even glue up was completed on the lathe.

Left out pics of process to leave it up to your imagination...


----------



## ldb2000

Great job Andy . I was wondering if someone was going to add the brass or aluminum segments to the mix . I almost did but held back because I didn't want anyone thinking it was a requirement .


----------



## ldb2000

Very nice pen Vic . I'm sorry that you blew up the tiger but at least you put some of the pieces to good use . I used the same type of parting tool you do except I turned a handle out of a beechwood pen blank and I used a hacksaw blade with the teeth ground off . I like it because it has such a thin kerf , I'm able to keep the grain match on even the wildest woods and acrylics .


----------



## RAdams

I use an old butter knife ground into a stubby parting tool. It had a handle already and was free! I had no spare saw blades laying around at the time so...


----------



## Mr Vic

Ron, Or was that the butcher knife you picked up at the Bates Motel garage sale?

Butch, I originally made it for turning the center band and finial for Barons. Even the parting tool from my miniture turning set ate up too much material. One day I'll het aroung to making a nice handle. But for now it ain't broke so why fix it...


----------



## RAdams

Actually, I prefer either an Axe, a Hatchet, or a chainsaw!!


----------



## PenMan1

I found the hardest part of this challenge to be NOT destroying the small "sliver" sections when they were parted off. I ended up making an adjustable two-bladed parting knife that could act as tweezers when the segments were parted off.  That worked really well.


----------



## ldb2000

I hardened the blank with CA . That seemed to work well for me . I was able to make very thin segments .


----------



## PenMan1

ldb2000 said:


> I hardened the blank with CA . That seemed to work well for me . I was able to make very thin segments .


 
I've had good success using CA to harden wood, so I first tried that with the PR. Maybe I couldn't get enough glue to stay on the PR, but it didn't make much difference? That's why I ended up making the tweezer knife.

Also, I was running low on 5 minute epoxy, so I first used CA glue to try to hold in the brass segments. After two failures with CA,(and yes, I roughed up the brass with 150 sandpaper), I went to HD and bought more epoxy. 

In theory, CA glue SHOULD hold the brass to the PR (after all it holds tubes in PR), but the epoxy seemed to work much better.


----------



## ldb2000

CA should work to hold the metal segments in place but heat softens CA so is your drill bits are a little dull or you generate a little too much heat the joint will fail . Epoxy is also softened by heat but not as much as CA .


----------



## PenMan1

Wanted: One Drill Doctor..... CHEAP!


----------



## ldb2000

ROFLMAO :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:


----------



## DurocShark

I glued the tubes in my blanks last night... 

Green soapstone with white alabaster accents. I hope it turns out!!!


----------



## Craftdiggity

DurocShark said:


> I glued the tubes in my blanks last night...
> 
> Green soapstone with white alabaster accents. I hope it turns out!!!



I hope so too.  That's _my_ stone you have there.:wink:  Pretty gutsy to do a stone glue-up like this right out of the box.  You really sliced the alabaster that thin _on the lathe?_

Chris


----------



## DurocShark

I will. I glued a tube into scraps (I've already made 2 sierras from the alabaster!), only putting the CA on the end. That should give a bit of support to the pieces I slice off. We'll see...


----------



## Craftdiggity

DurocShark said:


> (I've already made 2 sierras from the alabaster!)




PICS!!!!

How'd they turn out!  Any probs drilling?


----------



## DurocShark

They were repairs to existing pens my wife has destroyed. No pics, since she snatched them out of my hands immediately. 

Easy to drill, easy to turn. I used a roughing gouge and a scraper for the whole thing. It's so soft that it's no problem to turn. I've turned harder woods. The only downside is the powder that comes off. A mask is necessary. But kicking the lathe up to 2100 rpm and using the roughing gouge makes for a nice stream of powder flying off the tool. heh


----------



## Craftdiggity

Don,

A mask is essential, even for a time after you're done turning the stuff.  That powder hangs in the air.  You do not want to be breathing that stuff in.  Way worse than wood.  

That white is pretty hot looking, though, right?  I love it.  It's really striking with Black Chrome hardware.

Chris


----------



## DurocShark

Both were done on chrome/ti sierras and they looked great. The green is even softer than the white, so I may just use the 80 grit gouge.


----------



## Craftdiggity

Yeah, the soapstone is much softer.  Did you press the kits together or file them down and glue?


----------



## DurocShark

Pressed. Like I said, they were repairs, and I re-used the tubes, so they were already worn down a bit.

I also used Gorilla glue instead of epoxy. Better, more even support.


----------



## mbroberg

I just have to say that the pens posted thus far are really good!  And we've only just begun.  Thanks Butch for the time, effort and pain of organizing this.


----------



## ldb2000

Mike , I totally agree with you on the quality and craftsmanship of the pens shown so far . I also wish to thank everyone for taking the time to build and show their pens . You folks have built some fantastic pens and did an awesome job of matching and surpassing my challenge .


----------



## RAdams

Hey, Maybe when this is all done we could compile all the pictures into one file in the gallery or something? That would be super sweet!!


----------



## DurocShark

RAdams said:


> Hey, Maybe when this is all done we could compile all the pictures into one file in the gallery or something? That would be super sweet!!



Agreed!


----------



## DurocShark

BTW: Parting off slices of alabaster on the lathe is NOT easy! I may need to make a new tool. Ack!


----------



## ldb2000

I will try to arrange something when we are done . It would be great to have all the pics in one place .


----------



## ldb2000

Don , a thin parting tool would help you I think . A  piece of a hacksaw blade with the teeth ground off is what I made for doing things like this . I will try to get a pic posted soon . Also try soaking the end of the alabaster blank as you part it , it might help .


----------



## DurocShark

ldb2000 said:


> Don , a thin parting tool would help you I think . A  piece of a hacksaw blade with the teeth ground off is what I made for doing things like this . I will try to get a pic posted soon . Also try soaking the end of the alabaster blank as you part it , it might help .




That's what I'm going to make my tool from. :wink:


----------



## RAdams

I like to live on the edge! I stole a butter knife from the kitchen and ground it down to a micro parting tool! Didn't even need to turn a handle! I just gotta hide it from the wife when she goes in the shop!


----------



## skiprat

RAdams said:


> I like to live on the edge! I stole a butter knife from the kitchen and ground it down to a micro parting tool! Didn't even need to turn a handle! I just gotta hide it from the wife when she goes in the shop!


 
I'm gonna tell !!!  I'm gonna tell!!!:biggrin:


----------



## Rick_G

I was away for the weekend and the kitchen is on hold until the wood is replaced (powder post beetles )  so I didn't get at it until yesterday afternoon.  Did my drilling on the drill press but everything else was done on the lathe.  The woods are white ash and ebony.  Lower barrel slides into the center band about 1/8th inch.  May not get them all done but the ones I do will get shipped to our military guys and gals along with letters of support.  (Click on the Canadian flag at top of page for more info.  Shameless plug)

Oh for a narrow parting tool I use old planer blades from my thickness planer.  Not quite as narrow as a hack saw but thinner than any others I have.


----------



## ldb2000

Great job on that pen Rick , nice thin segment there . That was a great looking piece of timber you started with and looks great with the contrasting CB .


----------



## louisbry

Thank you Butch for doing this! You can count me in and here is my first pen. I did it all on the lathe. It's a Ti Gold modified Slimline made from curly maple and African blackwood.


----------



## Mack C.

ldb2000 said:


> This is a modified slimline I made for the Penmakers Challenge . It is made with curly maple and a custom made centerband of pauduk . This entire pen was made on the lathe no saws were used to cut the blank or centerband .
> Remember this is a Challenge so it's time to put on your thinking caps and figure out how it was done . I will answer all questions but you might not always like my answers :devil:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will be posting how I made this one at the end of stage 1
> 
> 
> 
> Today is the first day I paid attention to this thread. It looks like fun with a lot of learning attached to it! When does stage 1 end? Am I too late to get in on it?
Click to expand...


----------



## ldb2000

Great looking pen Louis . Your finish is fantastic on there and your segmenting looks flawless . I like the one piece designs , they show off the wood so well . My only complaint with them is that they are so hard to grip to turn and replace the refill but I have made a number of them . I will be making another type of one piece design for a later stage of the challenge .


----------



## louisbry

ldb2000 said:


> Great looking pen Louis . Your finish is fantastic on there and your segmenting looks flawless . I like the one piece designs , they show off the wood so well . My only complaint with them is that they are so hard to grip to turn and replace the refill but I have made a number of them . I will be making another type of one piece design for a later stage of the challenge .


 
It is not a one piece design, Butch.   There is a joint at the second (from the nib) Blackwood segment. I put the segments on the lower section because the tube is missing on the lower 1/2 inch of the upper barrel.


----------



## ldb2000

Welcome to the challenge Mack . You have plenty of time , the challenge is on for another week so there's no rush . Each of the stages will last at least two weeks , maybe a little longer for the last couple . 
For anyone else who wants to join in , you can enter a pen here even after we move on to the next stage . This is not a contest just a chance to work on something beyond a plain kit and hopefully learn something in the process .


----------



## ldb2000

louisbry said:


> But there is a joint, Butch. It is at the second Blackwood segment.


 
WOW!!! that is a nice tight joint , very well done !!! It looks like one piece on my screen . Did you use a mortise and tennon or a butt joint ?


----------



## louisbry

It is just a simple butt joint.   Doing everything on the lathe smooths up the transitions.


----------



## ldb2000

louisbry said:


> It is just a simple butt joint. Doing everything on the lathe smooths up the transitions.


 
Yep :biggrin:


----------



## DurocShark

I was very tempted to cheat on mine.... Slicing alabaster on the lathe was HARD! I got the slices to around 1/8" by hand turning the lathe, not spinning on the motor. Ugh! Soapstone, even though it's softer, was much more forgiving.

The slices aren't square to the world either since I couldn't leverage the speed of the lathe to get them square. We'll see if the slop shows up in the finished product. I glued and clamped 'em last night, should be able to try to turn them down tonight. I hope...


----------



## soligen

Butch, with the goal of learning, I have to declare Mission Accomplished! This site, and this thread in particular has been an eye opener for me.

This is my 5th pen - made from my Penn State starter kit . Although I always see flaws in my own work, I'm very happy this how this turned out.

Woods are Cherry and Rosewood. It will be interesting to see how it looks when the cherry start to darken.

No saw for the segments, but I did things a little different. Is it OK to describe how I did things? or do we need to wait to discuss process? I'm very interested in constructive feedback (I hate the term "constructive criticism" lol)

The top half is back beveled a little bit at the joint - not a inset, just beveled a bit to hide the joint. 

I'm wondering what you guys did about the pen length. I thought the slimlines were a hair short to begin with, and loosing the kit band makes them shorter still. I added a small second section of tube to the upper blank to compensate, and ended up about 1/8 inch longer than a standard slim line - which I like.

Out of pen kits now :frown: but I ordered the 30 pack from penn state so I have inexpensive kits to play with.


----------



## wdcav1952

Butch,

After a slightly rocky start, this challenge has taken off! Thanks for doing this. Since I am slightly  less than innovative, I look forward to your explanation.  You have done a lot for the forum by pushing your kitless challenge, and now the "sawless" challenge.


----------



## ldb2000

Fantastic pen Dennis , especially considering this is only your 5th pen , I can't wait to see what you are doing by your 500th pen . It's ok to detail your construction . As I said "There are many ways to do this stuff" , the more information and techniques are described the more knowledge is shared with everyone . Back cutting or beveling is a good idea when segmenting to keep the joints tight . It prevents glue starvation when clamped up which makes for a stronger joint . As mentioned earlier , cutting these segments on the lathe ensures that the joints are square and tight , and as with Louis's pen almost invisible when done right .
Pen length on a slimline isn't much of an issue on the upper barrel and even the lower barrel is a little forgiving because you can press the transmission a little less or more to make up for any variance .


----------



## RAdams

"Almost invisible"????

I really thought that was a one piece pen! (So did you didnt you?)


----------



## ldb2000

RAdams said:


> "Almost invisible"????
> 
> I really thought that was a one piece pen! (So did you didnt you?)


 
Yes I did !!! I had to put the photo in my image editor and magnify it to see it , and even then it's still very hard to see .


----------



## ldb2000

Cav , again I want to thank you for letting me do this . It's my way of giving back to the people here for all the things I have learned , and am still learning .


----------



## soligen

What I did was glue in the tube, leaving enough hanging out to build the CB onto.  I tried to square the end for the CB with a parting tool, but it was never right.  I ended up using the skew to get a good cut.  I thought of using a hack saw, but.... NO SAWS!!  I didn't think of grinding it into a mini parting tool.

So, with the cherry end square to the protruding tube, I then took a rosewood blank and squared the end using my barrel trimmer - a brass tube ran loose inside as a sleave.  I then CA Gel glued the blanks together and clamped.  I parted off most of the rosewood, squared it to the tube, then repeated the whole procedure using my cherry lower blank.  Part it off then repeat again using the opposite side of the rosewood blank.  Finally part to length.  The thin band is a tad thick, I think.  I expected to need several tries to get it square so I left some contigency wood - but I got it much easier second time around.

Trim my bottom blank to final length, and glue in the tube.

For the back bevel, I turned the upper blank to 1/2 inch round and chucked it up in my drill chuck (I turn on a ShopSmith).  Swung the tool rest sideways and cut the bevel with with the parting tool (finally found a use for it lol).  

This literally took an entire evening just to prep the blank for final turning.

My learning lists of firsts:

First time parting square to the turning axis
First time using CA on wood
First time turning on the end of a piece of wood.
First time cutting a brass tube on the lathe

By the way, the cherry came from a tree in my brother's yard - taken down about 10 years ago.  It was a short board I cut into blanks on an angle.  The upper and lower are not from the same blank - they are the 2 short leftover pieces from either end of the board - I though there was a reasonable chance I would ruin the piece, so I saved the good blanks.

One unresolved trouble I had was tubes I glued in with CA Gel didn't hold.  The CB parts held fine, but CA glued tubes broke loose on the barrel trimmer.  I guess I'll stick to epoxy for now.

Tonight I played with CA as a finish.  Not happy with the results yet, but I had to stop becasue my wife wanted to go to sleep.


----------



## Smitty37

Well I have some 2.5 or so inch blanks that I didn't saw....I would think you could turn a blank round between centers before cutting to barrel length and drilling.. once round a couple of tools could be used Including a parting tool Or even a burning wire...


----------



## ldb2000

A parting tool works best for this . A burning wire would work but might discolor the ends of the blank . Mine was parted in half for the two barrels with my thin parting tool and the bands were done that way as well .


----------



## DurocShark

Well, I got the soapstone & alabaster pen done. The thin slices crumbled while turning. I tried again using just sandpaper, but it was no better. I had to go with a bigger slice for the alabaster. 

Anyway, green soapstone and white alabaster from Craftdiggity on a rhodium slim kit.


----------



## RAdams

Don, that is a nice pen! I have some man made granite type material i am thinking about trying for hte next challenge pen. I think you have inspired me to give it a go! Thanks for posting this!


----------



## ldb2000

Don , that pen is awesome . I have done a couple of Alabaster pens so I know what you went through making that one . The fact that you were able to part a small ring of the alabaster shows a great amount of skill .
My hat's off to you .


----------



## PenMan1

Don, 
Bigger looks better anyway! NiZZZE pen!


----------



## Craftdiggity

Don,

That sure is some nice work.  Getting the Alabaster even that thin was an accomplishment.  It really looks nice with the soapstone.  Did you have any trouble getting the two different stone types to finish smoothly.  I would think that the harder alabaster would be tough to sand down even with the soapstone.  

I gonna have to come up with somethin' nasty for the next challenge.  Can't be getting beat with my own stone.  :wink:

Chris


----------



## DurocShark

The hardness differences just took a bit of care. I finished the shape with a very light touch with the scraper, then gentle sanding. Like using different woods or metal segmentations.


----------



## kruger

*kitless slim*

acrylic slim with pink heart (thanks jeff)

all comments are welcome


----------



## Mr Vic

Here are some follow on photos to my pen, the blanks were turned round first and the small segments parted of the accent material and glued onto the main body, part and glue, part and glue. Used my tail stock to clamp-up for drying. NOTE: Give the glue time to cure and keep your bit cool when drillling.....had to reglue as the heat caused the glue to soften and break free.....


----------



## RAdams

that is how i did mine too. i felt like i had more control over what was going on by parting the material off without the tube and hole drilled. I am looking forward to the next level!


----------



## ldb2000

I found it easier to drill the blank and turn to size then insert a tube and hold it in place with the tailstock and part off the slices . The tube kept the slices in place and supported them while I parted them off .


----------



## Sylvanite

It's interesting to see all the different approaches to cutting the segments.  I didn't want to mess with thin slices, so I made a sequence of glue/part operations.

First of all, I turned both blanks (maple and blackwood) round between centers.  Then I parted the maple and trimmed one end on each square.  I also trimmed one end of the blackwood blank square.

Next, I glued the blackwood to the first maple blank.  I chucked it up and parted the blackwood off (leaving a thin slice attached).  I repeated the process with the second maple piece, and then with the blackwood again (only leaving a thicker slice).

Then I drilled, tubed, and turned the upper (segmented) and lower blanks.  Although my segments weren't particuarly thin, I could easily have made them so.

I hope that helps,
Eric


----------



## Mr Vic

Butch  - did you leave thje tube unglued? I thought about trying it that way.


----------



## ldb2000

Yes I did . The thin CA i used to harden the wood did make it stick slightly to the tube which helped keep it together but when I parted down to the tube the glue bond broke and the slice just slid down the tube . It takes a little practice but it works like a charm .


----------



## RAdams

Sylvanite said:


> It's interesting to see all the different approaches to cutting the segments. I didn't want to mess with thin slices, so I made a sequence of glue/part operations.
> 
> First of all, I turned both blanks (maple and blackwood) round between centers. Then I parted the maple and trimmed one end on each square. I also trimmed one end of the blackwood blank square.
> 
> Next, I glued the blackwood to the first maple blank. I chucked it up and parted the blackwood off (leaving a thin slice attached). I repeated the process with the second maple piece, and then with the blackwood again (only leaving a thicker slice).
> 
> Then I drilled, tubed, and turned the upper (segmented) and lower blanks. Although my segments weren't particuarly thin, I could easily have made them so.
> 
> I hope that helps,
> Eric


 


This post right here made it all worthwhile for me! That is one way i never thought of. I would imagine you could get crazy if you wanted to and make paper thin segments. That would be interesting to play with! Maybe four or five super thin alternating slices then a larger center band piece or something.


----------



## ldb2000

Eric , when I first was thinking of how to do this I thought of doing it your way but being cheap I didn't want to waste too much of the paduk , it's a really nice piece of wood with great color , that was when I tried it the way I did . 
I was hoping that we would come up with different ways of doing this . If something works for you that's great but when it don't it's nice to know there are several other ways of doing something , one of which should work for you .


----------



## RAdams

I agree 100%! And thank you again for hosting this little shin-dig! I will end up trying all the ways mentioned just to play iwth the results and see what works for what application. Like you pointed out Butch, your method was partly dictated by material consumption. This and many other factors weigh in when you are designing a pen. Threads like this one call us to actuallly think about what we are doing before we do it. 

I usually dont even really think too much about design and all that until the blank is mounted on the lathe. Now i am forced to plan out my piece, with a specific goal. This factor alone changes everything. Now we are thinking about material matches, and thickness matches, what works, what doesn't? What techniques will i need to use to achieve my goal? It really is the perfect project to start this challenge. It opens so many doors into form and technique, Design and Process. Awesome start no doubt! I am excited to see the next level!


How many levels will there be?


----------



## ldb2000

I haven't really decided yet , at least four but maybe more . Since I haven't built any of the pens for future stages I will judge the difficulty of each and adjust it so that everyone can keep up . I really would like this to be something that helps as many people as possible so I don't want to make any one stage to difficult . I have been designing the final stage pen in my head though and it will be hard but worth the trouble and everyone should be up to speed when it happens .


----------



## RAdams

Will it entail all of the previous mods in one pen? Plus something new to set it apart? That would be slick. However it is, I know it will be off the chain!


----------



## ldb2000

Yes . The next build will include the mod from this build but there will be a little harder mod to the pen as well . I'll give a hint , it will be a mod that will require something that allot of people seem to have a problem with . 
I will also say that the third build will use a cigar kit instead of a slimline . You will be able to use a slimline but a cigar is what I will be using . So if you don't have a cigar but want to play then use the slimline but modifying a different kit will open new possibilities .


----------



## Mack C.

*No saws were used in making this pen!*





This is my attempt in the stage 1 challenge. It's done on a Father Sing slimline. I have no idea what the brown wood is. I thought the contrast between the yellowheart and the brown would stand out.

I had turned both pieces round between centres, then drilled 7 mm holes, parting off some small segments, and trying to catch them as they parted off.

Then I drilled and glued (2 part epoxy) both the nib and cap end. I left the cap end 3/4" short of the centre band to accommodate the segments, which were glued one at a time with epoxy.

The nib end was looking somewhat plain so I parted off a section of the brown wood to glue on the yellow heart.


2 things I learned with this exercise: 1. have a plan for the segments; 2. I made my first ever turning tool, a hacksaw blade parting tool. 






Thanks for the challenge, Butch. It was much fun!


----------



## ldb2000

Great looking pen Mack , nice contrasts with those woods . Glad you learned something and had fun doing it , that is the whole idea of these challenges . 
Good job on the parting tool , it will serve you well in the future . I cant remember the last time I used my regular parting tools it's been so long . 
To keep from having to chase small pieces all over the shop , next time try drilling the blank and inserting a tube without glue then hold it in place with the tailstock or if you are using a mandrel hold it in place with the bushings and masking tape on one end to keep the blank from spinning . When you part the slices off they will stay on the tube .


----------



## Dalecamino

All you turners are making nice pens in this challenge from Butch . I have too many projects going at the same time . SO , I will settle for this pen as my entry . I had planned to make one with sheet metal . Maybe another challenge . :redface:


----------



## ldb2000

There is nothing wrong with that one Chuck , it looks very well made and has a nice finish . The metal segment at the CB and the segmenting at the nib end add intrest to the design .


----------



## Dalecamino

ldb2000 said:


> There is nothing wrong with that one Chuck , it looks very well made and has a nice finish . The metal segment at the CB and the segmenting at the nib end add intrest to the design .


 Thanks Butch ! Looking forward to the next one .


----------



## David M

Apple and cherry , on cigarr kit . fun to make but alot slower with parting tool . had to cut down the metal center band to fit inside the tube at the band end so the center would line up . like the size though.....
http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/uu93/davidspen/DSC01125.jpg


----------



## ldb2000

David , leave it to you to jump ahead . We are not using Cigar pens untill the Third stage :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin: ... It looks great by the way .


----------



## jaeger

This is my pen for the challenge. This has been fun and I'm sure I will learn a lot.
Thanks for the Challenge Butch!
Now I just need to enter the photographers challenge.


----------



## pssherman

Here is my entry for stage 1.

I turned the curly maple round. Then I drilled the blank as far as the drill bit could go. Parted off a piece long enough for the lower barrel. Then drilled the remaining maple. After drilling, I then parted off the thin slice. The black slices are acrylic that I thought was solid black. It only looks that way when thick. Again, I drilled the center hole before parting off the slices.

I placed all of the upper barrel pieces on the tube leaving the acrylic overhanging slightly. Appled a small clamp to hold all of the pieces tightly together and then soaked the joints with thin CA.

Then I turned everything to final size/shape. The center band was raised slightly for apperance and over hangs the lower barrel. The acrylic is actually a smoky gray when thin, so the grain of the maple slice is visible when viewed from the end.


----------



## ldb2000

Sorry for not responding sooner but I've been getting ready for stage two and working on the draft for my design and technique for this build .
Jeager , looks good . Interesting choice of materials . Is the centerband attached to one of the tubes or free floating ? 
Paul , nice contrasts on the centerband . Interesting design of the centerband , is it attached to the upper tube or a separate piece ?
Good job guys !!! on to stage 2

To anyone else that still wants to join in , Stage 1 will be open to entries until the end of stage two . You don't have to do this build to join in any of the other stages but it is advised that you practice the techniques used in this stage because we will be building on these techniques in all the future stages .


----------



## jaeger

Thanks Butch!
The center band is attached to the lower barrel. I used Bocote for the wood. Prior to this pen all the center bands that I have made have been free style with metal laminates.  I  have 2 bags full of center bands. I wish I could trade them for some transmissions!
 I  have been wanting to use some pieces of antler that I have blown up while drilling or were just to small for a full barrel. 
I used a coping saw for most of the cuts that I made on the lathe. It worked well.


----------



## pssherman

Butch,
The center band and upper barrel are a single piece with the center band slightly overhanging the tube. The tube and pieces were glued together in a single step.


----------

