# What is the best kit in the Sierra Line



## Focushere (Sep 1, 2011)

I have been buying the Sierra line kits in Black and Gold and have had some problems with the Black paint coming off. My question to you guys and gals is this? Are all the other kits I see that look like the Sierra the same with just different names or are their differences in the quaility through different sellers. Example Woodcraft sells the Wall Street II, Craft Supplies USA sells the Classica which both look like the Sierra. Are there differences in the quality of the finish or do they all come from the same Manufactuer and then they just change the names.


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## ed4copies (Sep 1, 2011)

They do NOT all come from the same manufacturer and there are tremendous differences in quality of transmissions, platings and tolerances.


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## Focushere (Sep 1, 2011)

_"They do NOT all come from the same manufacturer and there are tremendous differences in quality of transmissions, platings and tolerances. "_

*"OK"*
*Which are the better kits?*


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## Fibonacci (Sep 1, 2011)

I have not been happy with any of the ones that have the black paint.  I have purchased the "real" sierras from Berea, the classica from CSUSA (with the black finish), and the Wall Street II from PSI.  Others may have better black coatings.

I have been happy with the Diplomat II from Exotic Blanks and the Classica from CSUSA (with the gunmetal finish).  Those are available with a gunmetal finish instead of the black enamel.  I carried one of them as my primary pen for a couple months and did not have any damage.  The sierra that I tried to do that with scratched the first day.

I have also been happy with the elegant sierra (chrome/satin) and the sierra elegant beauty.  The finishes on the sierra elegant beauty are higher quality and have a very good finish.  

My personal ranking would be (best first):
sierra elegant beauty
diplomat II
elegant sierra
classica
other

The sierra elegant beauty has the best fit and feel of the ones that I have used, but they are also 2.5X-3X the price of the others.  

The classica feels looser to me and the fit between the supplied parts is just not quite up to par with the others.  In its defense, it is also cheaper as part of CSUSA's apprentice line.  They carry a sienna in thier regular line that appears to have better tolerancing, but it is only available in the black coating, so I have not tried them.

*All of the above is my feelings based on my experiences.  Different people have different expectations and requirements.  Your best bet is to buy a couple of each of the ones you are interested in and try them yourself.*

I would not hesitate to purchase kits from either Exotic Blanks or CSUSA.  I have not gotten anything that was junk from either of them.  They both also have very good customer service, so if there is a problem or something you are not happy with, they will take you seriously and work with you to solve it.


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## Fibonacci (Sep 1, 2011)

Something else to consider, if you are new to turning, is your supplier.  If you do a search on "Sierra" pens, you will find a whole slew of discussions on what a "real" sierra is, as opposed to a clone or a knock-off.  When in doubt, ask about the source as quality varies widely from manufacturer to manufacturer.

Exotic Blanks carries some kits that they source themselves (such as the Diplomat II) as well as kits from Berea (Sierra, Sierra Elegant Beauty, etc.) and CSUSA (Zen).

You will also find that different sources will sell the same kits for different prices, so it pays to shop around.


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## IPD_Mr (Sep 1, 2011)

Personally I am a big fan of the LeRoi (I think that is what the name is)  Not because of plating or embellishments on the band, but because the transmission is top finial operated unlike the traditional Sierra which likes to separate.


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## bitshird (Sep 1, 2011)

IPD_Mr said:


> Personally I am a big fan of the LeRoi (I think that is what the name is)  Not because of plating or embellishments on the band, but because the transmission is top finial operated unlike the traditional Sierra which likes to separate.



That has been my only complaint with Sierra style pens, and it's not really the fault of the pen, but the dopes that keep turning the thing after the nib is already up. We switched to the Dayacom Elegant beauty, I'm glad to find out about Smitty's LeRoi because the Elegant beauty is just a tad too small for a guy, but ladies love them.


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## its_virgil (Sep 1, 2011)

I have actually just made myself two PSI Gatsbys. They are finial operated and so far I really like them. The final verdict is still out and will be for awhile. I will use them daily and see what happens.
Do a good turn daily!
Don


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## johnnycnc (Sep 1, 2011)

Focushere said:


> I have been buying the Sierra line kits in Black and Gold and have had some problems with the Black paint coming off. My question to you guys and gals is this? Are all the other kits I see that look like the Sierra the same with just different names or are their differences in the quaility through different sellers. Example Woodcraft sells the Wall Street II, Craft Supplies USA sells the Classica which both look like the Sierra. Are there differences in the quality of the finish or do they all come from the same Manufactuer and then they just change the names.



Get the Ti plated ones. No black paint stuff that I recall.. and a nicer look.
I have stuck with the Berea kits sold through MANY different resellers and been reasonably happy with the quality.
Try Beartoothwoods, Arizona Silhouette, Woodcraft to name a few.
And yes, a lot of "re-naming" goes on. Woodcraft calls them Wall street II, 
I call them all Sierra, same as Berea, the originator (I think!).:biggrin:

they could rename one a "Fire-Plug" .. sorry but I'm calling it Sierra.

There are a lot of "copies" and "variants" out there, it has been wildly popular in design and style terms. They are not all the same, so try one or two form an unknown quality source if you like the looks and price, and see for yourself.


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## toddlajoie (Sep 1, 2011)

I may be the oddball, but I don't like the finial twist versions of the sierra line. Maybe it's just because I got my start on Wall St 2s, and they seem so normal to me, that the other way just seems odd and I can't get used to it, but when I look at the kit, I expect to twist the bottom for some reason. (I have the same reaction from the opposite end of the Atlas/Carraba line...)

I'll agree with all the other posts, I prefer any and all of the ones without the black plastic, two toned chromes, any of the elegant versions, but my personal preference is the normal version in Black Ti and Platinum.... My only dislike on these is the Black Ti/Gold Ti versions. For some reason with me, the combo of the black and gold Ti makes the color difference of the gold Ti much more noticeable, and the gold Ti sections look decidedly "fake" colored...


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## Smitty37 (Sep 1, 2011)

*Can of worms....*



Focushere said:


> I have been buying the Sierra line kits in Black and Gold and have had some problems with the Black paint coming off. My question to you guys and gals is this? Are all the other kits I see that look like the Sierra the same with just different names or are their differences in the quaility through different sellers. Example Woodcraft sells the Wall Street II, Craft Supplies USA sells the Classica which both look like the Sierra. Are there differences in the quality of the finish or do they all come from the same Manufactuer and then they just change the names.


 
Asking what is the "best" is always opening a can of worms. Answering that question is even worse, but we are gluttons for punishment.

So here is what I *know*.
Barea hardwoods makes the style in a couple of versions - Taiwan
They provide other sellers that might use different names for the same pen.
Dayacom makes the style probably in a couple of versions - Taiwan
They provide other sellers that might use different names for the same pen.
MainMold makes at least one version -Taiwan
They provide other sellers who might use different names for the same pen.
Rizheng makes several versions - China/Hong Kong
They provide other sellers who might use the same name as sets from other sellers.

They are sold retail under more names than you can shake a stick at.

The rest is opinion or speculation.

I seriously doubt that anyone has even seen pictures of all of the different variations available. 

A lot of folks seem to be satisfied with whatever supplier they have bought from which says they are probably all decent.

The most common complaint seems to be the one mentioned about falling apart and/or damaging transmissions but that is as mush "operator error" as anything else.

Some finishes are inherently better wearing than others...dollar for dollar I personally think Chrome is probably the best regardless of whose name is on the component set.

Note: Barea claims that "Sierra" is their trade mark.  .


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## ed4copies (Sep 1, 2011)

I would agree with Smitty's analysis with one exceptionL

_A lot of folks seem to be satisfied with whatever supplier they have bought from which says they are probably all decent._

Never say ALL or NONE.  There are some that are atrocious.  I have purchased and thrown them away.

MOST are tolerable or better.


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## Smitty37 (Sep 1, 2011)

*OK*

I'll substitute "mostly" for "all".  Decent is relative though - it is be a synonymn for tolerable.

*tolerable*: Of moderately good quality but less than excellent: acceptable, adequate, all right, average, common, decent, fair, fairish, goodish, moderate, passable, respectable, satisfactory, sufficient. _Informal: _OK, tidy.


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## PenMan1 (Sep 1, 2011)

I perfer the Elegent Beauty Sierra in TN gold and Rhodium.

My reasoning is simple. I make Aero (Dayacom Elegent Beauty), Gatsby, Sierra and Wall Street II (or whatever they now call the bigger one) in the best platings.  The Elegent Beauty TN/RHO out sells all the others 10:1.

Like Don, I like the fenial twist of the Gatsby and Aero. It's a Shane they don't sell! They really are nice pens.

I hope this helps.


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## Smitty37 (Sep 1, 2011)

PenMan1 said:


> I perfer the Elegent Beauty Sierra in TN gold and Rhodium.
> 
> My reasoning is simple. I make Aero (Dayacom Elegent Beauty), Gatsby, Sierra and Wall Street II (or whatever they now call the bigger one) in the best platings. The Elegent Beauty TN/RHO out sells all the others 10:1.
> 
> ...


 Isn't that a finial twist?


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## PenMan1 (Sep 1, 2011)

Oh yeah! One other thing. There seems to be a "peeing contest" between the manufactures over the "Sierra" name. All Sierra's ARE NOT CREATED EQUAL!

IF IT SAYS "Sierra", but does NOT have a Berea part number, and the bag doesn't say "made in Tiawan ", SEND IT BACK. There are Chinese Sierras out there. My experience with these is that they need improvement to qualify as "junk".


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## PenMan1 (Sep 1, 2011)

Smitty37 said:


> PenMan1 said:
> 
> 
> > I perfer the Elegent Beauty Sierra in TN gold and Rhodium.
> ...



Yes it is a fenial twist, as I mentioned in my post. The thing I like about the Aero, other than the finial twist, it that refills load by unscrewing the top or bottom, rather than pulling apart like all the others. This reduces the "goober changing refill syndrome".


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## PenMan1 (Sep 1, 2011)

I Absolutely Will NOT buy ANY of the sets with black sections just before the nib. The black MUST BE PAINT, CHEAP PAINT. The black wears off in less than a month on a daily writer.


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## Smitty37 (Sep 1, 2011)

*Not So...*



PenMan1 said:


> I Absolutely Will NOT buy ANY of the sets with black sections just before the nib. The black MUST BE PAINT, CHEAP PAINT. The black wears off in less than a month on a daily writer.


 
The ones I sell the black is either black TN (darker than the usual) or black chrome.  It is NOT paint.


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## PenMan1 (Sep 1, 2011)

Smitty37 said:


> PenMan1 said:
> 
> 
> > I Absolutely Will NOT buy ANY of the sets with black sections just before the nib. The black MUST BE PAINT, CHEAP PAINT. The black wears off in less than a month on a daily writer.
> ...



Smitty:
I'm not saying your are. In fact, while I've not made the LeRoi, I've heard nothing but VERY GOOD THINGS ABOUT THEM. In fact, buying a dozen of them is on my "to do, soon" list.

Without calling names, we all know the sets that I am referring to.


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## Haynie (Sep 1, 2011)

PenMan1 said:


> Without calling names, we all know the sets that I am referring to.



Ummm No we don't.  All this super secretive talk about bad and cheap kits has me second guessing the order I was about to make.  So, what are you folks referring too.


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## Ruby pen turning (Sep 1, 2011)

I  do not know about other (sierra) kits but the Apprentice Classica  from CSUSA is crap. The twist section that gets pushed into the tube, moves more then a wheel with worn out bearings. The plating seems to be good though.


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## Smitty37 (Sep 1, 2011)

PenMan1 said:


> Smitty37 said:
> 
> 
> > PenMan1 said:
> ...


 
I don't sell any enamel --- don't think too much of it myself.


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## PenMan1 (Sep 2, 2011)

Mark:
Without starting WWIII and calling names, etc, I will offer some creative thinking exercises.

Having literally made thousands of "Sierra type" pens, I can tell you that on a set quantity (1, 20, 100, 500) of pens, from vendor to vendor the price difference is almost always less than $1 per unit. Some vendors offer reduced shipping, others have free stuff, etc.

BUT, when you draw the total line at the bottom of the page and consider the "extras" the prices are all very close!

When one vendor comes in 1/2 the price of the others, that sets off alarms for me.

I made an order with a company once. The price was very attractive, much less than all others. I wasn't worried about quality as this was a PSI reseller. I dont know how many years ago that was now, but I'm still waiting on that order. AND, somehow this company got around the usual credit cards rules and I never got my money back either.

The sad thing is this company IS BACK IN BUSINESS, and from all reports still treating would be customers very badly.

Be careful. The lowest price is rarely the best value.


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## IPD_Mr (Sep 2, 2011)

PenMan1 said:


> .The sad thing is this company IS BACK IN BUSINESS, and from all reports still treating would be customers very badly.


 

Ooo Ooo Mr. Kotter, I know the answer to this one. :biggrin:


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## alphageek (Sep 2, 2011)

Haynie said:


> PenMan1 said:
> 
> 
> > Without calling names, we all know the sets that I am referring to.
> ...



Haynie,

I won't badmouth the company that it being referred to because I have never ordered from them. Instead, since you are newer - I'd point you to good vendors/kits. Two of the replying people in this thread sell kits in the sierra style, are here to answer questions (as much as we allow), and have better prices and service than you will find from the bigger companies (even those that have good service).  Both are VERY highly rated by their customers and friends on here.  I suggest you check out the links in both Smitty and ed4copies sig lines.  

I use a couple in the sierra line.   The best (IMO) is the 'elegant' variation that is out there because I really like the look of the clip better than that of  the other sierra styles.


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## Texatdurango (Sep 2, 2011)

Focushere said:


> I have been buying the Sierra line kits in Black and Gold and have had some problems with the Black paint coming off. My question to you guys and gals is this? Are all the other kits I see that look like the Sierra the same with just different names or are their differences in the quaility through different sellers. Example Woodcraft sells the Wall Street II, Craft Supplies USA sells the Classica which both look like the Sierra. Are there differences in the quality of the finish or do they all come from the same Manufactuer and then they just change the names.


 
Your post has me curious!  Where did you buy Sierra kits that have black PAINT on the barrel?  I made tons of these "Sierra" pens over the past few years and never saw this and would like to know so I won't accidentally buy any in the future.  How is the paint coming off, flaking off, wearing thin or what?

I bought some solid black Sierras a few years ago and messed up one so it's floating around the house or shop somewhere as a personal use pen but I never noticed any wear on it.  If it's paint, it's damn good paint!:biggrin:


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## ed4copies (Sep 2, 2011)

Gee George, I can't answer your question, because it's advertising---but I do know the answer.  Not that you would BELIEVE me anyhow.


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## Texatdurango (Sep 2, 2011)

alphageek said:


> .....* Instead, since you are newer - I'd point you to good vendors/kits.* Two of the replying people in this thread sell kits in the sierra style, are here to answer questions (as much as we allow), and have better prices and service than you will find from the bigger companies.


 
Haynie, since we're pointing out good vendors that sell Sierras, one of the best vendors I ever had the pleasure of doing business with is Ernie at Beartooth Woods.  And just because we don't see his ads all the time on the forum he is no less deserving a kind mention/recommendation.  

http://www.beartoothwoods.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=21&osCsid=157f6e97f07d9b5674fe6d31dd7d198e

Now that I'm thinking of it, I probably bought 95% of all my Sierra kits from Ernie since at the time he had the best prices going and service was like many others... great!  I just visited his site to get the url and noticed that all his kits except one model are all Berea Hardwoods and I believe that implies a good quality kit.

So......... now you have at least three good vendors to choose from!:biggrin:


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## alphageek (Sep 2, 2011)

Texatdurango said:


> So......... now you have at least three good vendors to choose from!:biggrin:



George - I have heard good things about Ernie as well... My point was those vendors that sell sierras that also are members here.   I can't find Ernie in our member list (one of the issues of the 'unique' names that lots of us use) - can you share his IAP member name here too?


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## Texatdurango (Sep 2, 2011)

ed4copies said:


> Gee George, I can't answer your question, because it's advertising---but I do know the answer. Not that you would BELIEVE me anyhow.


 
Mentioning a vendor who sells inferior kits with known issues in my mind is just doing  fellow members a favor, much in the way members used to warn newcomers about Steebar which was a company operating under several names and having several websites, all of which were bad news!  

There is a big difference in sharing what you know without adding the.... "oh by the way I sell better kits and I can prove it" type comments.  Just state your opinion and leave it at that!   There is no need for the "plug" at the end of each sentence, your signature ad does a good job of letting members know you have a website. 

If we can mention the "big vendors" and say their kits are great or they suck, then we should be able to do the same thing with the "small vendors"


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## Texatdurango (Sep 2, 2011)

alphageek said:


> Texatdurango said:
> 
> 
> > So......... now you have at least three good vendors to choose from!:biggrin:
> ...


 
In my opinion, being an IAP member is not a prerequsite to being a reputable vendor with good prices and service but Ernie has been a member here since 2005, just look up beartoothwoods.

A member of our North Texas IAP chapter was good friends with Ernie and mentioned once that the reason he chose not to join in on the discussions was that he didn't want any bias to enter into discussions such as this so he chose to let his reputation speak for itself.


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## ed4copies (Sep 2, 2011)

Although Ernie is no longer active often, he is still an IAP member--his name is BearToothWoods.

Some vendors just don't enjoy the battering you can take if you try to engage and give advice on the IAP.  

Ernie was once active and, before I was a vendor I did a fair amount of business with BearToothWoods--he is a GREAT guy!!!  And, yes he is almost exclusively Berea products, so you would not encounter difficulties with those kits.


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## alphageek (Sep 2, 2011)

Texatdurango said:


> In my opinion, being an IAP member is not a prerequsite to being a reputable vendor with good prices and service but Ernie has been a member here since 2005, just look up beartoothwoods.



I agree not a pre-req, but it doesn't hurt    Thanks for the name, I kept searching on variations of Ernie, not going off bear   D'oh!


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