# Questions about m14 .8 Die / Tap Guide



## PenHog (Aug 29, 2019)

Hi,

After looking for help online without success, I'm hoping someone here can educate me on a few things:

(1) I have a m14 die that I purchased from Turners Warehouse, and it is much larger than my other dies. In fact, it does not fit into my 1-inch die holder. Where should I purchase a die holder for this?

(2) Also, can this be used with die guide/holder here?:









						Lathe Die Holder | Industrial Die Holder | LittleMachineShop
					

This lathe die holder has a low mass so that it spins easily and doesn't have small parts twist off. Order the industrial die holder for your lathe today.




					littlemachineshop.com
				




*Update: I see that I should probably contact Rick for purchasing a larger die holder.*

(3) I purchased a tap guide:









						Tap Guide, 2MT Short, Fisher 3104
					

Tap Holders & Guides 3104 Made in USA; Fits directly in the mini lathe tailstock; Much shorter than a drill chuck and regular tap guide; This tap guid...




					littlemachineshop.com
				




but I have no idea how this is supposed to help keep the tap straight. There are no included instructions, pictures/diagrams that I can see. So I have this spring-loaded springy thing, and no idea how to use it on my 2MT woodworking lathe (Turncrafter). Perhaps I need another component?

I purchased this the die holder/guide and the tap guide because my threads weren't straight. I'm hoping this stuff will remedy that...

Thanks in advance for your help!


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## mredburn (Aug 29, 2019)

Your tap should have a hole in the center of it on the back end. The point on the tap guide goes in there. IF it doesnt have a hole it may be tapered. IF its tapered unscrew the hex plug in the back of the Fisher tap guide and turn the center shaft around, it has an inverted seat to fit on taps with a tapered end.  You will have to get a 1 1/2 die holder adapter that will fit into your 1 die holder,if anyone makes one. I believe there is someone that makes them.  (I Forgot) put a drill chuck in the tail stock that will hold 1/2 drill bits and then put the tap guide in the drill chuck. Push the whole thing forward until the spring loaded pointed shaft pushes back up into the guide body but not all the way. The spring tension keeps the guide pushed up against the tap as you make the threads.  If you have to move the tap guide up as you go if your cutting deep threads.


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## mredburn (Aug 29, 2019)

The tap guide you bought fits directly into the tail stock of the LMS lathe. Mine is straight 1/2 inch and so I use the drill chuck method. You can just mount it into your tailstock and move it into position.


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## PenHog (Aug 29, 2019)

Hi mredburn,

Thanks for the reply!

The tap does have a hole in the center. So, in my mind, I see:

-- the tap guide going into the tailstock,
-- the springy-pointy end of the tap guide going into the back of the tap,
-- the other end of the tap making contact with the drilled hole in my blank.

Then how do I turn the tap? By hand? This looks rather precarious. Will the tap stay in place, and stay straight? I worry it will "pop" out, or simply not yield straight threads...


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## mredburn (Aug 29, 2019)

Yes you have it correct.You use a small wrench or crescent wrench to turn it. The tap guide at the back and the hole in your stock align the tap. Your tap should be a taper or plug tap and it starts to cut the threads but not fully.  You turn the tap in  a little, (Maybe a full turn maybe a 1/2 turn then  back it up 1/2 a turn,  and then turn it in a half a turn farther than you were and back it out a little again and so on until its threaded to the depth you want.  When you start tapping it cuts material out where the threads are formed.  Backing it up a little breaks that material up into small pieces that fall into the spaces in the flutes of the tap. If you dont you make a long wire/pieces that can bind or cross thread in your newly formed threads and ruin them as you try and force the tap back out.


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## Dalecamino (Aug 29, 2019)

Sorry for butting in Mike, but he says he's using a Turncrafter which is a wood lathe.
Penhog, you need a tap wrench to hold your tap. Put the tap guide in your jacobs chuck,
which goes into your tail stock.

I se we were typing at the same time. I'll go back to sleep now.


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## mredburn (Aug 29, 2019)

I looked on Ebay and there are several "Lathe die holder sets with the 1 1/2 holder/adapter but I did not see an adapter that was sold seperate. You might contact LMS and ask if they have one.
HI Chuck, the one he linked to is the tapered one for the ;athe and has a #2 morse taper


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## mredburn (Aug 29, 2019)

I see now you have updated your original post. If you bought the die set from Rick he probably also makes the adapter. If the #2 mt wont fit your lathe tailstock you will have to buy a different one with a straight body to use in your drill chuck.


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## Fred Bruche (Aug 29, 2019)

I hold the tap in a jacobs chuck (that fits in the tailstock with MT2 taper), no tap guide. Works fine for me.


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## PenHog (Aug 29, 2019)

Thanks for all the helpful replies, I really appreciate it.

@ mredburn and Dalecamino: So it seems I need a tap wrench. Argh, more money...but if that's the way it is, then okay. Thanks!

@ Fred Bruche: Yes, this is what I was doing with both my tap and die (in a die holder), but the result was a crooked pen and a lot of frustration.


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## Fred Bruche (Aug 29, 2019)

PenHog said:


> Thanks for all the helpful replies, I really appreciate it.
> 
> @ mredburn and Dalecamino: So it seems I need a tap wrench. Argh, more money...but if that's the way it is, then okay. Thanks!
> 
> @ Fred Bruche: Yes, this is what I was doing with both my tap and die (in a die holder), but the result was a crooked pen and a lot of frustration.



Are you sure your crookedness is coming from the threads? Once threaded how are you holding the body and cap parts? I had that problem of some pens out of round when assembled, I narrowed it down to some slight wobble while turning/polishing/finishing the cap and/or body. I solved that by using a collet chuck on the headstock.


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## PenHog (Aug 29, 2019)

Fred Bruche said:


> Are you sure your crookedness is coming from the threads? Once threaded how are you holding the body and cap parts? I had that problem of some pens out of round when assembled, I narrowed it down to some slight wobble while turning/polishing/finishing the cap and/or body. I solved that by using a collet chuck on the headstock.



Hi Fred,

I can't rule that out. A LOT of stuff has gone wrong on the last 2 kit-less pens I tried to make.*

I do use a collet chuck. But I try to keep some originally-round material attached to the piece I'm turning (locked in the collet chuck), since I think this helps keep the piece "true" while spinning. However, I dropped my cap component on the floor, where it shattered, and the remaining piece I had left for the cap was insufficiently long to leave this extra material.

This made it hard to turn the cap while keeping things true. I found the cap would wobble since neither my pincer chuck nor my collet chuck could get a solid grip on the curved surface. Given what you're saying, this may be the source of my problem with that attempt. Any tips?

I see I can buy a tap wrench for ~$50 at little machines. And then I suppose I could purchase custom mandrels from Rick to avoid the "extra-material" approach I'm using. But, man, this hobby is a bottomless hole for throwing money down...my wife is going to kill me (and deservedly so).

* My tool rest touched my headstock chuck while spinning, resulting in a decapitated tool rest; clean cut, really amazing, glad to be wearing a face shield. Then, I lost a drill bit to a blank that melted (Amedeo blue, what a waste!) and then I compounded the problem by attempting to loosen it out with my parting tool. Ruined the parting tool. So, I left the garage in quite a bad mood and have not returned. I'm still resisting the desire to take a hammer to my lathe.


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## Fred Bruche (Aug 29, 2019)

@PenHog my current approach (that could use some improvement but it works for me)
- turn the blank (round) to a few mm larger than the size fo the final diameter of the pen.
- cut the pieces for the cap and body with a few mm extra in length.
- grab the cap or body piece with pin jaws in a regular chuck, flat face them, drill then thread, then work on the diameter to almost final size. 
- I usually start the final shaping of the cap, that way I can do some very fine-tuning to the body piece while it's still held with the pin jaws.
- for the cap and the body, I made a custom "mandrel" from a 3/4 inch Delrin rod that fits tightly in the 3/4 inch jaws of the collet chuck. One side holds the cap (threaded with the die matching the tap used for the cap) and I use that to finish shaping it. The other side of that custom "mandrel" holds the body (threaded with the die matching the tap used for the section) and that's how I finish shaping the body (staying away as much as possible from the area that matches the cap).

That "protocol" is certainly made from informations I picked up here on the IAP, either from the library or in posts, I'm not making any claim over that approach   I'm not sure if I was very clear but maybe it will help you pick-up bits to improve your approach. Seems you have all you need but some Delrin rod, that shouldn't break your budget and you might survive your wife's punches


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## rherrell (Aug 30, 2019)

I make a 1.5" die adapter to fit the LMS die holder, you can find it here...






						"Custom Made" penturning tools/accessories
					

SHIPPING RATES             If it's 16 ozs. or less and will fit into a 6x9 poly mailer...$5                                       Small Flat Rate Box... $8                 99% of my orders will fit into those two categories.  If you order a rest over 10" or if your order is too large to fit in a...



					www.penturners.org


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## PenHog (Aug 30, 2019)

Hi Fred,

Thanks for sharing your methods! Very helpful.

It seems I need to bite the bullet and make a custom mandrel, as you suggest. Eventually, when I settle on some regular die/tap combinations, I'll have to ask Rick (above) if he can fashion a metal one. But is Delrin the material to use for any particular reason, or could I go with ebonite or alumilite for the custom mandrel?

Thanks again,
-Max


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## Fred Bruche (Aug 30, 2019)

Sure you can make it with any material you want, Delrin is very easy to work with, threads beautifully and is not as brittle as other material (I believe Delrin the material used in kits for the cap threads). It can be found in 3/4" rods for about $2-3 for 12", quite cheaper than ebonite or alumilite. I believe Delrin is a bit more elastic than the other material you mentioned, but it has worked for me so far.


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## bmachin (Aug 30, 2019)

Steve4948 made a video a number of years ago showing how to make a mandrel from aluminum on a wood lathe.
If you want to use Delrin or anything else, the procedure is the same.

Here's the link:






Bill


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## PenHog (Aug 30, 2019)

Thanks, Fred and Bill! Will look into doing this pronto.


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