# New titanium pen updates



## btboone (Mar 18, 2005)

I started the thread with only the new tap in mind, but some people showed an interest, so I decided to write about and show progress of the pen as it progresses.  I renamed the thread to titanium pen updates, and I'll try to take some pictures along the way.


Yahooo!  I finally got a chance to start on my fountain pen after weeks of tweaking in CAD and catching up on orders.  My first part was a brass part that the nib screws into that makes the twist mechanism work.  The nib has some crazy M6.5 x .5mm threads on it which are extremely tiny, and finding a tap for it was going to have to be a very expensive and time consuming ordeal.  They are nowhere to be found.  This is where having a CNC lathe comes in handy.  I made the tap out of titanium, and it worked great the first time! 

This opens up a whole can of worms with custom multi start taps for fountain pens.  I'm usually slammed in the shop with ring orders, so I can't yet devote any time to seeing what's possible, but I'll be getting help in about a week.  Give me a while before any requests come this way, but it looks like I might be able to offer some.


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## PenWorks (Mar 18, 2005)

Bruce, I have a couple of sets of US messurement taps & dies, course & fine. They work for some, but not many of the pen kits. I am taking tomarrow off to do some shopping, I was going to buy a set of fine metric taps & dies, do you think they would be usefull, or are the kits to broad and varied? I start my day at 9 am at a pipe makers shop. Was invited to learn a thing or to. Then off to Harbor frieght, Graingers, Woddworkers Source and finally the gun shop.


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## btboone (Mar 18, 2005)

I had never heard of a tap that big in diameter having that fine of a thread.  The ones you find normally stop at about .8 or .75mm pitch.  I needed a smaller nib than usual to work with the retracting pen, otherwise the whole pen gets a lot larger.  I got one from Rich, who got it from Germany.  I looked everywhere and couldn't find a tap that fine.  Someone had mentioned that there is a guy who does custom taps, but there's a minimum order, and they were extremely expensive; well over $100.  The other nibs I've measured from kits are an El Grande at M10 x 1, and a Robusto Jr, which I believe was M10 x .75.  That's the only ones I've gotten so far.


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## driften (Mar 18, 2005)

Speaking of threads.... does anybody have a list that shows what parts have what threads? From just trying things many parts use common threads to each other. The Berea American Double Twist, Elegant American, and Click pens all have parts with the same threads in common. CB couplers are all threaded the same and the finals may be diffirent but use the same threads. It seems the couplers may be M6.5 x .5. 

I would be interested in taps and dies that would work with the diffrent pen kits!


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## wdcav1952 (Mar 18, 2005)

> _Originally posted by penworks_
> <br />Bruce, I have a couple of sets of US messurement taps & dies, course & fine. They work for some, but not many of the pen kits. I am taking tomarrow off to do some shopping, I was going to buy a set of fine metric taps & dies, do you think they would be usefull, or are the kits to broad and varied? I start my day at 9 am at a pipe makers shop. Was invited to learn a thing or to. Then off to Harbor frieght, Graingers, Woddworkers Source and finally the gun shop.



Anthony, I worry about your stress level.  You need to take it easy and not work so hard! [)]  Actually, I'm just jealous.  I gotta work on whichever commandent that one is.  Glad we have a whole "pewfull" of preachers to keep us straight.  []


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## btboone (Mar 18, 2005)

Here's a picture of those tiny threads and the homemade tap.  The nib in the lower right is an El Grande for comparison.


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## driften (Mar 18, 2005)

Cool! Good job Bruce!


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## JimGo (Mar 18, 2005)

Wow Bruce!  I'm looking forward to the new pen!


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## btboone (Mar 19, 2005)

Jim, I'm working on the new pen tonight.  It's 2am now, but I'll try to push until the front part is done.


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## dougle40 (Mar 19, 2005)

Looks like a lot of work . I can't wait to see the finished pen .


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## btboone (Mar 19, 2005)

A lot of work is an understatement. []  I worked straight through until 8am and finally worked out the front half of the pen.  It still has a couple operations to go for just that part!


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## btboone (Mar 19, 2005)

Here's a pic of the pen in process.  I originally wrote the code for the big machine in the back, but since I have a pallet system on the table, I don't have room for the tailstock.  I made a tailstock for the tabletop machine last night and rewrote the code for it.  The black thing between the two machines is an optical comparitor.



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## PenWorks (Mar 19, 2005)

Man, I spent the day cleaning my shop and was goning to post a pic, but after seeing this, my shop looks like the town dump again. []

Bruce, you stuff is just to cool [] I'm glad I don't have to write code to make a pen. []

Can't wait to see your new one[]

Anthony


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## btboone (Mar 19, 2005)

This one has some spirals that go around it.  When I was first machining it, it got louder and louder, and the cutter got deeper and deeper as it went around.  I took my 3D coordinates from the wrong place.  Doh!  I did spend several hours last night going over them and getting the right coordinates.  I machined the opposite side, and it made the perfectly nesting slot for the elliptical clip that I have in mind.  It's amazing the difference having correct coorinates can make!


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## JimGo (Mar 19, 2005)

lol... Good luck Bruce!


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## woodscavenger (Mar 19, 2005)

That place is so clean, it can't be a penturners shop.  I think you are lying!  []


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## btboone (Mar 20, 2005)

It's not that clean!  I didn't show my work bench tops.  I've been so busy that stuff just kind of accumulates on them.  

Here's a picture of where I'm trying to go with it.  The clip would be flush with the body.  The rendering shows it standing off a bit due to the software not showing it very clearly when it's all the way flush.  There is the brass part I showed before inside, and there are some balls that ride in the tracks to push the mechanism forward when it's twisted 180 degrees.  The swoops should line up when it's full open or closed.  That's my theory and I'm stickin' to it.  []


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## btboone (Mar 20, 2005)

And here's where the part is right now.  I kept the stalk on the part because I still need to drill a hole from the front side to help with the tight clearance of the trapdoor.  The part can be mounted in the lathe this way and I can drill through the stalk into the part.  The part will get cut off by hand and filed and sanded to the proper angle.  I'm a little nervous because the hole has to be dead nuts.  If it's off just by a few thousandths of an inch, it will poke through the side wall.  Did I mention that the trapdoor is darn near impossible to make!?  I figured I'd make the rest of the pen to be sure it felt right and looked right before tackling the trap door. It needs a return spring hidden somewhere in the impossibly tight geometry.  The axles are .062" diameter, and a spring needs to fit within that.  We'll see.


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## PenWorks (Mar 20, 2005)

I sure it will look fine. It allready looks good in blue!
Bruce, are you making several at one time? Or are you just cutting one?
I would think, since the program is allready up and running, and you have the set up.
you would do a run of 6 or 12 at a time.


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## btboone (Mar 20, 2005)

Anthony, yes, this is still the first one that I'm machining on.  What you don't see in the picture is the gouge on the backside that killed this part.  I still want to prove out all the rest of the operations on this one before wasting more material though.  No matter how many times you check the code, there's probably more stuff to work out.  By doing this one I've made several code changes like rotating the swoops 30 degrees so they miss the end of the clip, and had the cutter take a second pass where the finish is rough on this one.  There's still a lot to be hashed out like the press/click fit between the front and back halves, getting door geometry to work, being sure the clip looks right and functions properly, being sure the swoops properly line up and all those kinds of details.  I keep notes of stuff to watch for when making more.  When I'm satisfied that everything is pretty dialed in, I'll probably make one from start to finish to be sure the whole process with all the revisions works OK.  If that one works like it should, then I would do bigger batches of them.  There's a lot of fine tweaking to the processes, so I don't want to start into large batches too soon.


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## Tom McMillan (Mar 20, 2005)

Looking pretty doggone "sweet" to me Bruce!!  Looks like a winner!!  Look forward to the final product---hope it all works out without too much difficulty for ya!!


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## driften (Mar 20, 2005)

That really looks cool! I really can't wait to see it when its done.


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## Gary Max (Mar 20, 2005)

Bruce--what can I say--you are taking pen making to the highest level.
Love looking at your work.


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## woodscavenger (Mar 20, 2005)

How are you dealing with the trapdoor issue to keep the FP nib from drying out?  Have you looked at one of the mechanisms from the PILOT/Namiki line?  If this works out this will be a stellar pen!  I will nominate you to be Grand-Poo-Bah of the Pen Makers Guild!


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## rtjw (Mar 20, 2005)

Bruce please dont get me wrong on this. I have been turning only a couple of months and just when I think I have a really nice pen and I am feeling good about myself, you have got to come along with something like this and just make me look like my pen comes from Walmart. I just posted a pic of a polaris pen and bracelet helper that I did yesterday. I thought I did really good but it dont even come close to your work. That pen is fantastic looking and it aint even finished.


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## btboone (Mar 20, 2005)

Thanks guys.  I like the design aspect of it.  I have spent several weeks on it and probably a dozen iterations before arriving at that shape.  Woodscavanger, I did check on patents for trapdoor mechanisms.  I've only seen a couple pens that do this.  They usually have the nib only extend a very short amount out of the pen, like around an eighth inch, and the end of their pens is extremely bulky.  I also saw a couple of pens at a high end pen store that retract, but they had unscrewing caps.  That seems somewhat pointless to retract is you need to unscrew a cap as well.  If I could overcome those issues, I might find a niche among high end collectors.  Maybe I'll be like some of the big guys and sell a limited edition of "only" 2000 pens!  []  One can wish can't they?

As I said, I'll hash this one out and see if the look and feel is right, and do yet another iteration if necessary.


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## wee willie (Mar 20, 2005)

Bruce I think you need to make a few thousand and give each member one for TESTING LOL


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## btboone (Mar 20, 2005)

I got the front hole drilled and the end cut off properly.  That worked OK and it looks a lot better that way.  I see that the trapdoor axle holes aren't quite square with the pen.  It would be due to the cutters not being perfectly aligned with the center of the rotary milling axis.  Normally it doesn't matter because everything is milled on center, and any design cut ends up at exactly the same place after a rotation.  These holes get milled offcenter, so I need to hand crank the Y axis offcenter, (it's not powered)and the net effect of it not being relative to the centerline makes them look rotated toward one side.  I need to rig up a dial indicator to the Y axis of the tabletop mill so I can nail getting it lined up.  Something to do in my spare time.  []


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## btboone (Mar 20, 2005)

I tried to show a pic of the lathe and laser with the newly completed pen half.  I think the machines got the better deal here.  []  BTW, the ring being turned on the lathe has an African Blackwood inlay.



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## JimGo (Mar 20, 2005)

WOW Bruce, PLEASE keep 'em coming!  Its really cool to watch this coming together.

BTW, if anyone hasn't seen Bruce's rings, check 'em out...they are BEAUTIFUL!


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## DCBluesman (Mar 21, 2005)

Great stuff, Bruce.  I can't wait to see the next update!


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## caddel (Mar 21, 2005)

Thanks so much for leading me to this website.  I can see that I have a long way to go to reacch the level of some of these folks.  I could probably start with getting my shop (garage) as clean as yours.  It would just fill up again with tiny curls of wood though.  Maybe I'll just look at your pictures and dream of what could be.
You just reminded me that my granddaughter asked me to make a pink ivory with ebony pen for her so I just pushed aside the sawdust and turned her a pen.
Thanks again.  Your pens are GREAT.
cc



> _Originally posted by btboone_
> <br />I started the thread with only the new tap in mind, but some people showed an interest, so I decided to write about and show progress of the pen as it progresses.  I renamed the thread to titanium pen updates, and I'll try to take some pictures along the way.


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## Tom McMillan (Mar 21, 2005)

Great to have you here Carroll!!!  Hope you'll take a photo of the pink ivory and ebony pen you made for your Granddaughter and post it here!!  We do looooove photos!!


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## btboone (Mar 21, 2005)

Hi Carroll, thanks for your kudos and welcome to this forum.  I learned a lot of tricks from these guys, and it's a great place to just yak.  Please post some of your pics here so these guys can see what you've done!


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## btboone (Mar 24, 2005)

I did some work on the clip.  It was to be on the underside of the pen and stay flush with the body.  Making it would be a little tricky as it has some three dimensional curvature on the outside and is curved on the inside.  I was originally goint to make it from flatstock, but decided that I didn't have the proper tooling to get the bend right so it would be machined from barstock.

Here's some drawings of what I had in mind.


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## btboone (Mar 24, 2005)

Here's a pic of the raw bar of titanium in the lathe.  This one was stiff enough to turn the outside without the tailstock.  The center is just a drilled hole with only the end turned with the boring bar.


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## btboone (Mar 24, 2005)

Here's a pic of the part after turning.  Although the center of this part is a simple drilled hole, the way it nests on the pen is at an angle.  Since I couldn't get a long thin boring bar all the way inside to follow any curvature, the part was designed so that it could still work well even though the inside diameter doesn't change.


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## btboone (Mar 24, 2005)

Here's a picture of the part on the 4th axis (rotary axis) table top milling machine.  Notice that there is now a dial indicator for the Y axis so that I can better find the part centerline!  Like the other pen part, I originally wrote the program for the large machining center but decided to use the small mill because of the tailstock.  (Sure, the homemade tailstock's somewhat cheesy, but it's stiffer than without one.) [] I had to rewrite all the code yet again.


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## btboone (Mar 24, 2005)

Here's a picture of the completed prototype clip on the prototype pen body.  It worked OK, but I'll be making some minor changes to other ones.  The clip took more rounding of the edges to feel smooth than I had counted on, so it ended up a bit more narrow that I would have liked.  I'll rescale the code and widen it a bit.  The single bolt doesn't prevent the clip from being able to be pulled sideways, so I'll use two.  I'll thin down the material another few thousandths of an inch to make it slightly more flexible.  It works OK but is a bit stiff.  I'll also narrow the slot for the clip on the pen body so it matches the shape better.  This is a result of programming on the rotary axis rather than machining the whole slot from above like my original code was.  I'll also make the slot a bit deeper so the clip can sit down a little deeper and appear more like the original pen body.

All in all, not bad for the first shot.  With a little dialing in, it should look OK.


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## PenWorks (Mar 24, 2005)

I kinda got lost when the 4th axis crossed the Y indicator,
hopefully they won't meet at the Z point and crash. []

But I really love looking at the drawings and equipment.
Keep em coming....[]


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## btboone (Mar 24, 2005)

I had mentioned in an earlier post entry that those little holes that were drilled in the barrel of the pen were off kilter.  The reason was that the cutter was not exactly on the centerline of the part.  I'm not sure if you can see it, but the Y axis (front to back axis) isn't powered.  I just have the tiny handwheel for position.  I put on that dial indicator last night so that I could find the precise centerline.  I put something very precise like a dowel pin in the chuck and touch a tool to one side of it.  I zero the indicator and move the tool to the other side of the dowel pin.  I read the dimension and divide by 2.  I handwheel back to that calculated dimension, and that is the exact centerline of the part.


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## DCBluesman (Mar 24, 2005)

Beautiful, Bruce.  A lot of clever little "tricks" in getting this to work just right.


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## btboone (Mar 24, 2005)

This is definitely a tough pen to make.  Hopefully the final product will have been worth the effort.  The really tough part will be the trap door.  I'll save that for last.  Unfortunately, (fortunately?) I only get to work on it about a day or two per week since I'm always trying to keep ahead of orders.


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## JimGo (Mar 25, 2005)

Nicely done Bruce, and thanks for the update!  Have you thought about recessing the top of the clip into the pen body, thus obviating the need for two screws?


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## btboone (Mar 25, 2005)

Jim, I have the recess done with a ball endmill so the edges of the recess are rounded and don't catch on a pocket.  When I recut the slots and the clip properly, it should look like a smooth carved out section that totally surrounds the clip.  I haven't yet checked into keying it any more than it is.  I don't have any more depth available, as the wall is so thin there, so I'll try the two screws first, and if that doesn't seem to work, I'll look further into other things to try to key it better.


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## wicook (Mar 25, 2005)

I appreciate you giving us a "blow-by-blow" of the process and progress on this pen, Bruce. I've never had much of an idea of just how a CNC system works. The things you can do with this equipment are inspiring!


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## btboone (Mar 25, 2005)

That's the beauty of CNC Bill, you make a part and see how "wrong" it is and dial it in.  Little things like deflection of cutters or differences in programming don't really show up until a part is cut.  The good news is that stuff is perfectly repeatable.  If I program the changes correctly, changing this little part by 5 thousandths of an inch and scooting that part fifteen thousandths will actually make a difference and the part will get better each time I make it.


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## woodscavenger (Mar 25, 2005)

That plexiglass tailstock looks stout. Definitely nothing a mouse would chew on!  Keep the pics coming, this is fun living vicariously through your CNC machine!


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## driften (Mar 25, 2005)

I wish I could do that stuff Bruce. Please keep sharing!


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## btboone (Mar 27, 2005)

I turned the back portion of the pen.  It was a long part, so I chucked the bar so that it was short and stiff, and I drilled the inner holes.  I then used the tailstock and turned the outside shape.  I left the stalk attached so the milling machine would have something to grip on while the grooves were milled.




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## btboone (Mar 27, 2005)

The part was chucked up and the grooves were milled. 



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## btboone (Mar 27, 2005)

Here's a shot of the completed prototype parts.




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## woodscavenger (Mar 27, 2005)

That is pretty!  If you need a beta teste I am just a couple of states and one mailman away!


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## btboone (Mar 27, 2005)

The front part has a ball endmill slot on the inside that drives the ball inside the helical groove on the brass part.  After snapping off a cutter by the part moving in the milling machine.  I decided that I better make a fixture to keep it from moving again.  Here's the plastic fixture that held the part while the small slot was made.



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## btboone (Mar 27, 2005)

Here's a picture of the completed pen next to a couple other pens I did.  The aluminum pen is based on the Euro, so that gives some sense of proportion.  The new pen just kinda seemed too small.  It's funny because I worked so hard to get the size down, but I wasn't thrilled with it.  



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## btboone (Mar 27, 2005)

Here's a pic of the pen in hand.  It looks even shorter here than in real life because of the angle.



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## btboone (Mar 27, 2005)

When the pen was assembled, there were a couple issues that still needed attention.  I had the two parts press together with an undercut relief and matching bump on the other part.  It worked OK, but it was extremely hard to get the dimension just right where the part could be pressed in then have it stay, yet the part also had to rotate freely.  I've come up with a wire clip that may fix the issue.  It would sit in a slot, and would be slightly squared, where corners would stick out past flush a little.  They should be able to be deformed while the other part is pressed on then spring outward to hold the two parts together, yet let them rotate.

Another big issue is that there was too much friction for the mechanism to work well.  I tried sanding down the brass tube, but that didn't have enough effect.  I need to have a lower helix angle on the spiral on the brass part that moves the point out.  It will take more rotation to get the point out, but will have more mechanical advantage that way.  I need to prototype a new brass piece to see if that works.  It might be necessary to go to acetal or some other slippery plastic for that part.

The other thing to fix is the size.  It definitely needs to be around 3/4" longer.  I looked at just stretching the existing pen, and that would work, but while I am redoing the whole pen, I might as well design it for an El Grande or a nice gold nib, which would be easier to come by.  I am open for suggestions there.


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## DCBluesman (Mar 27, 2005)

Looks like I get to be first for this round.  Thank you for sharing this adventure, Bruce.  I LOVE this pen.  It is aesthetically pleasing, beautifully finished, well conceived and designed.  You may prefer that extra half-inch or so in length, but I think the overall dimensions are consistent and will provide great balance in a medium-sized hand.  I applaud you for a wonderful piece.


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## btboone (Mar 27, 2005)

It will look a lot nicer once it's properly finished, but I did like the shape.  Going with a larger nib means the opening at the front is bigger, and everything else scales up a little as well.  I drew some different iterations on the computer, and it goes from .58" diameter and 4.84" long (with nib out on this pen) to around .67" diameter x 5.60 long if it were simply scaled up to use an altered El Grande nib. (The plastic on the nib would be machined down to .37" diameter.)  That's approaching pretty wide for the pen body.  I don't care for it to be as wide as a magic marker or cigar pen.  I can slim that slightly to .62" diameter and still somewhat keep "the look."  Ideally, I would use a nib that had an M8 thread instead of the M6.5 or M10, and that could get the original proportions back, which do look seem to look better to me.

I could also take the original, and stretch the overall length around .50" and get a reasonable look.  Still somewhat short, but not in the "wow, that looks wrong catagory."  I'm really torn on what to do there because that nib is a very small one that Rich got from Germany, and they're not sold here.  Ideally a medium sized one between those two sizes would be best.


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## Tom McMillan (Mar 27, 2005)

Looking real good Bruce!!!  Really appreciate you taking us through the steps you take---helps to appreciate all the work and thought you put into everything you do!!!!


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## btboone (Mar 27, 2005)

The next things I have to do are prove out those concepts of the proper floating click, and the mechanism working smoothly.  I can do new prototyping on the parts I have, and what I learn can be applied to any newly scaled version I do.

In theory, I should be able to simply scale the code I have for milling a new sized clip and the matching slot in the pen body.  That was a lot of work!


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## DCBluesman (Mar 27, 2005)

FYI, Bruce.  The Gentleman and Statesman pens are approximately .62" on the nib-end barrel.  They're considered huge by most people's standards.


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## btboone (Mar 27, 2005)

That's good information to have Lou.  That data jives with me rejecting the scaled up .67" diameter as looking too wide.  The problem I have is that I can scale up the nib and can slim down the body a lot more, but it starts looking like a starving big mouthed bass.  It just doesn't look the same.  That's where a medium nib might help.


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## btboone (Mar 27, 2005)

Here's a screen shot of the different options.  The bottom pen is the current size.  The one above that is the same pen, but just adding .50" to the length.  The one above that uses an El Grande nib and everything is simply scaled up to fit.  The top one is the same, but in a slightly slimmed down version.  It's the one I'm leaning toward.  It could be slimmed slightly more in the front to more closely match the proportions of the original if the nib was a medium size.



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## Gary Max (Mar 27, 2005)

Bruce --- Sounds like you need to go fishing to me.
We are going to work on getting our boat out this week.
You know what brought this on------starving big mouthed bass--LOL
I my not know anything about making your pens but I do live near a lake.
3 miles to water from our house and the small mouth are getting ready.


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## btboone (Mar 27, 2005)

Gary, if you catch one that has helical stripes and a big mouth, better throw it back! []


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## wicook (Mar 27, 2005)

I think I agree with you, Bruce, that the top one is the best option of the four. It's lines are quite visually pleasing and the size is not absolutely overwhelming.

I agree with Lou's earlier note about big pens being a bit problematic for a lot of people. I find that there are a lot of people that don't even like the cigar size because it's too big for them -- and it's under 0.5" at the nib end. On the other hand, there are a good number of folks (it seems to be larger men and women with arthritis) who really appreciate the cigar size and larger pens.


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## btboone (Mar 27, 2005)

Thanks for the opinion Bill.  It's good for me to have other people let me know what they think.  A struggle with it by myself in front of the computer screen for hours at a time.  I guess something I can do is print them to scale and cut them out of cardboard to get a quick handfeel check.  It does neck down as much or more than a lot of the fat pens, so it doesn't feel quite so overwhelming.  I wasn't sure how the helical grooves might feel, but once they're rounded down a bit like in the picture, the pen is actually quite comfortable.


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## wayneis (Mar 27, 2005)

Bruce, I think that with many people when they look at some of our larger pens they automaticly think that, wow that a big hunker.  When I get that responce I have the person write with one (Gent or Statesman) and many times after writing with it they end up liking the pen.  I think that when making a large pen the important thing is the weight and keeping it down.  You may want to consider making it in two sizes like the Gentleman's and Statesman's kits.

Wayne


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## wayneis (Mar 27, 2005)

One other thing, for me personally I like writing with the full size Gent or Statesman and I am not a large person.  (5' 10" 165lbs.)  I carry a gentlemans pen on me at all times, one reason is because its a darn good sales tool and also because I like writing with it.

Wayne


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## btboone (Mar 27, 2005)

Yes, that's an interesting thought Wayne.  I can keep the code for the version I have, (or maybe the one with the stretched backside), and just copy the code and revise it for a second version with the larger nib.  That way, all the work I've done on this one won't be wasted.  I should probably at least finish this version out with working complete parts before going to a larger version.  There is something about a larger pen that makes it command attention.


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## driften (Mar 27, 2005)

"floating click" ahhhh the floating click. Something most mfgs don't seem to understand!
Its a "high end" type of thing I guess. I think if you just add length to the current pen it would
be perfect! I understand though wanting to design to parts that are more available.


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## btboone (Mar 27, 2005)

I just drew up the click on the computer.  I think it should work OK and won't be too hard to make.  It will be tough to remachine the parts I have now because of workholding issues, but making the click geometry on a new one won't be too bad. 

Jeff, I agree that the current pen strecthed out a little would be a nice look.  I agonized for weeks trying to find a way to get things that tight to be able to make everything work.  It would be a shame to scale up just because the parts are easier to find.  I just might need to check harder into finding those small nibs.


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## Old Griz (Mar 27, 2005)

Bruce, I agree with Jeff about stretching out the original design... I think it would have a sleeker more streamlined look and be more saleable... 
And having a larger version would be viable also from a sales standpoint... but I think it would look better with a smaller mouth... unlike me.. who has a big mouth... LOL.. 
Look at how many of us market not only Barons and Jr Gents, but full size Gents and Statesman pens as well... some people just like a big pen..


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## btboone (Mar 27, 2005)

Thanks for the feedback Tom.  That sounds like it might be the best option.  I don't want to lose the sleek look, which is half the battle for a high end pen.  Nibs like those are out there somewhere.


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## btboone (Mar 28, 2005)

I tried the lower helix angle, and that looks like it will work to make the mechanism move.  I went from 170 degrees of wrap of the ball bearing slot to 300 degrees, and this made the difference.  I'll also buy a reamer to smooth out any internal drilling marks, which should help too.  I also tried the wire click mechanism, where the two halves click together yet can still rotate freely.  I'll need to get a special internal cutting tool for the lathe to properly cut the slot on the inside diameter of the one piece, but it looks like the theory will work OK.  I have some slight "grunchiness" between the two parts when rotating them.  Titanium galls a lot by nature, so I'm thinking I might put a super thin ring of acetal between the mating parts to help smooth out the feel.  I added some special very thick grease made for high vacuum, and this helped the feel some, but it's still not where it needs to be for a high end pen.  Another thing I noticed is that if the interface between the parts gets cocked to the side, it jams up the mechanism, making it harder to twist.  A longer interface section and better machining of the slot for the wire click mechanism should help to avoid that.  I should have been working on wedding rings tonight, but I wanted to know if those changes would work.  If this is a typical work week, it will be around Thursday before I get to work on the pen again.


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## btboone (Apr 8, 2005)

I completed the longer pen with the exception of the trap door, which will require some more thought and made the stand shown.  It was nice and solid and worked well.  

<br />

I am now considering making a capped version of the same pen to speed things up to a saleable version.  There has been some interest by a magazine to do some pictures.  My question is about the clip.  Some people didn't think it flowed with the design so much.  Specifically, some people didn't care for the screws.  Does it make sense to market the pen only with the desk base and without a clip?  That doesn't seem to be very common.  If the cap screwed on, it wouldn't be necessary to recess the clip into the body, but if it stayed, does it look better recessed?  I didn't ever plan for this to have a cap, much less one that posts.  How much of a big deal would that be if the cap doesn't post.  I'll be trying to make the cap use the helices on the inner body as the threads, so there would be no visible threads.

Gimme feedback! []


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## DCBluesman (Apr 8, 2005)

I don't think the clip detracts.  Without a clip, it's either a desk or a briefcase pen.  Since I like to have a fountain pen in my pocket.  A capped version would be great as well, but if you lengthen the body I don't think I'd want it to post.


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## btboone (Apr 8, 2005)

Thanks for the feedback Lou.  That's my feeling on the clip too.  I kinda like the way it helps orient the pen.  Being a metal pen, people would probably tend to use it unposted whether it could be or not.  I was toying with the idea of doing an inlay of olivewood on the inner forward part of the pen (there must be a name for that thingie) but the wood would get pretty thin, so I'll probably go with titanium there.  I will probably do the plug at the end where the trap door goes in olivewood to match the pen stand.

How about thoughts on marketing; do all pens get the pen stand or is it an add on option?  It really looks nice standing on a desk.


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## Tom McMillan (Apr 8, 2005)

I really like the stand Bruce---looks great!!!  I think the clip is good---Guess I wonder if there's anyway to make the screws look a little more decorative though---I know Tim had some thoughts on that too---but, maybe it's not realistic?


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## rtjw (Apr 8, 2005)

You still amaze me Bruce!


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## DCBluesman (Apr 8, 2005)

I'm of the opinion that the desk stand is an option, Bruce.  There are a fair number of us who are independent consultants and really don't have a formal desk.  When not in use, I'd keep it in a nice display case as I do my other FP's.


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## btboone (Apr 8, 2005)

Thanks guys for your input.  I'll try sanding down the screw heads to flush on the prototype pen's clip and see how that looks.  I like the idea of the base being an option.  I think it's a nice addition for those who have a place for it.  I think you're right Lou in that not everyone will want it as a desk pen though.


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## driften (Apr 8, 2005)

On comment about the clip. On a fountain pen I would want to make sure it stays uprite in a pocket. I don't like the idea of a fountain pen leaking when not stored point up. Other pens I don't think not having a clip would be a deal killer. This pen is too nice and cool to have as a desk only pen. The other thought is would I want a pen when the clip was visually in the way when writing with the pen... Visually no clip is better.

On a metal pen a non-posting cap would be best.

So I was not much help []


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## btboone (Apr 9, 2005)

Jeff, I see what you mean.  It kinda has to have a clip if it's to be put in a pocket.  On this one, the clip is on the nib side, so it won't go up-side-down in a pocket if the clip is used.  The clip goes to the underside when writing with the twist pen, or would come off with the cap in the capped version.  Thanks for your input.


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