# Beall Collet Chuck vs Paul's Pen Vise  ???



## Randy_ (Jan 27, 2006)

Just came across a piece of information that has raised an interesting question.

There is no doubt that Paul's vise is a fine piece of equipment; but, at $80 a pop, it is also a pricey accessory.  I wonder if there is a better alternative to drilling blanks?? 

I just found out that the Beall Collet Chuck that fits my JET mini will accept a 3/4" collet.  This means that you could turn your pen blanks between centers to 3/4" and then drill them using the Beall chuck on the lathe.  Even though it is a slightly slower process, I like the idea of drilling blanks on a lathe.  

Charles Martin is selling the Beall Collet chuck and 5 collets for $135 which is, obviously, more than the price of Paul's vise; but you also have the added capability of the collet system for other tasks and you could skip buying a expensive DP as well!!  I recognize there are +'s and -'s to this thinking.  Just wondering what other folks thought??


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## Chuck Key (Jan 27, 2006)

I drill most of my blanks on the lathe but do not use either of the tools mentioned in the process.  I like to set it up so most of the blank is in the lathe through hole with just the very end held in the chuck.  Also like to start with a center drill then switch to an appropriate drill bit for the pen being made.  

Chuckie


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## Fangar (Jan 27, 2006)

If you have a simple scroll chuck, you can drill very nicely dead center without the need to turn it down.  I just received my Beall Collet chuck and love it already.  But for sqaure 3/4" stock drilled on my lathe, I use my scroll chuck.

EDIT:

I just looked a Paul's vice.  That is a very nice looking contraption. Believe me when I say I know the time and precision involved in production.  At 80 dollars, that thing is a steal!  

Fangar


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## alamocdc (Jan 27, 2006)

I use a scroll chuck for lathe drilling as well. Works great. Used my new vise (Paul's) for the first time last night and I found myself wondering why I waited so long to order one. I also intend to order the Beall for other projects.


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## Paul in OKC (Jan 27, 2006)

That's the fun of this hobby. More than one way to skin a cat (or drill a pen, in this case). Do you have to have any of the fancier tools, no. But they are fun and do make things easier for some. To me, the collet chuck is a nice item, but seems a bit much for wood turning over all. As a machinist I see the preciseness, but in wood turning, no.
  I used to fret over how I sharpened my tools. Then I read a book on turning by Richard Raffin. He said he keeps a grinder near by and just uses it in between when needed. Wow, no more fretting, doesn't have to be perfect, just sharp!  I could see a scroll chuck being a good long term investment, both for drilling if you prefer the lathe, and for other larger turnings.
Just my thoughts.


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## dubdrvrkev (Jan 27, 2006)

One other thing to keep in mind in with the vise you can drill larger projects also, tool handles, bottle stoppers, tops, etc. With the collet chuck for drilling you'd be pretty limited. 
I drill some on the lathe and some on the DP. For me it depends on how acurate I need to be. I have an old bench vise on my DP which doesn't lend itself well to holding things straight and square (at least with a quick set-up). But I'd rather do it on the DP so I don't have to change the TS over and take on and off the chuck all the time.


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## JimGo (Jan 27, 2006)

I'm with Kevin.  I have drilled on the lathe a handful of times, and prefer to drill on my drill press.  I like the simplicity of having the drill press already set up to do the required drilling, and not having to switch a bunch of stuff on my lathe.  As Paul said, COULD you do it that way?  Yes.  Do I want to?  No, but I'm lazy.

FWIW, I own a PSI self-centering chuck, and although it works OK, it isn't holding up well to the abuse from my shop.  The jaws are easily misaligned, which results in cross-threading.  I have asked Paul to put me on his list for his next batch of vises!


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## wayneis (Jan 27, 2006)

Drilling on the lathe is possible but I prefer to be able to do more than one thing at a time.  When I have blanks drying (Enduro) on the latheI want to be able to step over to the bandsaw and cut blanks and then on to the drill press and drill them out.  Part of the fun to wood working to me is tools, I collect them like I do wood.  Pauls vice is not only quality and accuracy to me, its fun, I like to have the nice toys to play with.  Like Paul said above, there's many ways to do some thing, is there only one right way?  I doubt it.

Wayne


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## Borg_B_Borg (Jan 27, 2006)

Paul's vice is that he makes the most user-friendly, most ergonomical, highest capacity, and plain best self-centering pen blank drilling vise out there.  His other vice is that he's too modest to make these claims about his vise.  []

Steve



> _Originally posted by wayneis_
> Pauls vice is not only quality and accuracy to me,


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## Paul in OKC (Jan 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Borg_B_Borg_
> <br />Paul's vice is that he makes the most user-friendly, most ergonomical, highest capacity, and plain best self-centering pen blank drilling vise out there.  His other vice is that he's too modest to make these claims about his vise.  []
> 
> Steve
> ...


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## Mudder (Jan 27, 2006)

You can also turn pens on a drill press and forget about the expensive lathe.

I do pens in batches and Paul's vise is the best I have found.


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## Paul in OKC (Jan 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Mudder_
> <br />You can also turn pens on a drill press and forget about the expensive lathe.



Been there done that. I first started with a 2" stroke bench top DP. I would drill up some blanks in a small DP vise. Then I would lay the DP on its side, put the end of the mandrel in a jig I made that mounted to the table, drove it with a drill driver. Clamped a piece of angle iron to the bench for a tool rest, and turned pens. Would I want to do it that way again,  No thanks[], but it can be done.  BTW, my first tool was a ground down file!


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## Fangar (Jan 27, 2006)

Paul posted some good advice up a few posts.

In addition to that, I turn quite a few casing pens and also aluminum stock.  The collect chuck allows me to drill and face my aluminum stock on the wood lathe.  I also drill my casings on the lathe, and will now use the collect chuck with an adaptor for those.  It is all about having the right tool for the right job.  The more ways to skin a cat in my opinion, the less cramps you get during innovation or invention.  

Cheers,

Fangar


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## Rifleman1776 (Jan 27, 2006)

I use a cross-slide machinists vice from Grizzly (about $40.00) for drilling blanks. And it has many other uses as well. As has been said, for high volume drilling, Paul's vice is probably hard to beat and would probably be a justified business expense.


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## Chuck Key (Jan 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Paul in OKC_
> 
> Thanks, Steve and all.  How about if I just try and humbly agree [:I]



There you go! That one is in the bag, now get on with the Lathe Wizard type thingie.

Chuckie


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## Mudder (Jan 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Paul in OKC_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...



I turned my first pen on the drill press and my first tool was made from an old chisel [8D]. You can also drill a blank held in a pair of pliers with a hand drill.


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## Borg_B_Borg (Jan 27, 2006)

Is yours a Shop Fox cross slide vise?  How smooth is the mechanism on it?  Is there any play and backlash?  I've been meaning to get a small x-y cross slide table, which alone costs $70 to $100, but have balked at the $40 to $50 cost just for shipping.  This Shop Fox model may solve my dilemma because Grizzy only charges $10 for shipping of this vise.

Steve



> _Originally posted by Rifleman_
> <br />I use a cross-slide machinists vice from Grizzly (about $40.00)


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## Rifleman1776 (Jan 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Borg_B_Borg_
> <br />Is yours a Shop Fox cross slide vise?  How smooth is the mechanism on it?  Is there any play and backlash?  I've been meaning to get a small x-y cross slide table, which alone costs $70 to $100, but have balked at the $40 to $50 cost just for shipping.  This Shop Fox model may solve my dilemma because Grizzy only charges $10 for shipping of this vise.
> 
> Steve
> ...



   Yes, Shop Fox. Is smooth. But there is considerable play, I have to be careful about that before tightening everything down. For the price and considering usefullness and versatility, I'm not complaining. But, I'm sure BTBoone would use it for a doorstop.


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## btboone (Jan 27, 2006)

My blank drilling setup is also an XY cross slide table with a vise.  It just happens to be 42" long and on a milling machine casting. []  It's not self centering, so I need to be careful to drill in the center of the blank.  Been there, done that.  Oops.


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## Randy_ (Jan 28, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Chuck Key_
> <br />I drill most of my blanks on the lathe but do not use either of the tools mentioned in the process.  I like to set it up so most of the blank is in the lathe through hole with just the very end held in the chuck.  Also like to start with a center drill then switch to an appropriate drill bit for the pen being made.



Chuckie:  Do you turn the blank end for end or drill the hole from only one end??  If you drill from only on end, do you have much trouble with blow outs??


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## Randy_ (Jan 28, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Fangar_<br />....I just looked a Paul's vice.  That is a very nice looking contraption. Believe me when I say I know the time and precision involved in production.  At 80 dollars, that thing is a steal!



James:  I certainly agree!  Just trying to see what alternatives people have come up with and whether the Beall collet is one to consider.


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## Randy_ (Jan 28, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Paul in OKC_<br />.....To me, the collet chuck is a nice item, but seems a bit much for wood turning over all.....



Quite a few people have suggested that this the best way to hold a pen mandrel in the headstock plus it would be adjustable for length.  Certainly not the cheapest way to do it; but with the other things that one could do with it, maybe the economics would work out?  For people who use multiple mandrels....no forget that idea.


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## Randy_ (Jan 28, 2006)

> _Originally posted by dubdrvrkev_<br />.....But I'd rather do it on the DP so I don't have to change the TS over and take on and off the chuck all the time.



Kevin:  Reading between the lives....are you a Shopsmith owner??


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## Randy_ (Jan 28, 2006)

> _Originally posted by wayneis_<br />....Like Paul said above, there's many ways to do some thing, is there only one right way?  I doubt it.



I agree, Wayne.  That is one of the purposes of this thread....to explore alternatives.  As to the toy issue, guess I'm trying to figure out which is the better option for me since I can't afford both right now.  []


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## Randy_ (Jan 28, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Mudder_<br />.....I do pens in batches and Paul's vise is the best I have found.



Mudder: No doubt in my mind that folks who do a higher volume of work are better off with Paul's vise and a DP!!


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## Randy_ (Jan 28, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Mudder_<br />.....You can also drill a blank held in a pair of pliers with a hand drill.....



You aren't talking about me are you??  I tried it and I'm not that talented.  []


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## Chuck Key (Jan 28, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Randy__
> <br />
> Chuckie:  Do you turn the blank end for end or drill the hole from only one end??



No and yes, often the hole does not go all the way through the blank.



> If you drill from only on end, do you have much trouble with blow outs??



No trouble with blow outs.

One isseue to be considered when using the two tools mentioned is that one of them appears to be designed for work holding while the other seems to be designed for tool holding.


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