# Sharpening jig/Grinder



## Easysport (Dec 4, 2005)

Need a little help! I'm sharpening challenged. What Wolverine grinding system do I need to sharpen gouges? Haven't mastered the skew yet. Woodcraft has the system in A. grinding jig. B. side grinding jig. Which one do I need to start with. I also have a craftsman 6in 3450RPM grinder. Is this just to fast to use or due I need a slow speed grinder? Thanks in advance for any and all advice.[?]


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## Rifleman1776 (Dec 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Easysport_
> <br />Need a little help! I'm sharpening challenged. What Wolverine grinding system do I need to sharpen gouges? Haven't mastered the skew yet. Woodcraft has the system in A. grinding jig. B. side grinding jig. Which one do I need to start with. I also have a craftsman 6in 3450RPM grinder. Is this just to fast to use or due I need a slow speed grinder? Thanks in advance for any and all advice.[?]



Sharpening is one of the most frequently cussed and discussed subjects. Six people will give ten opinions. You are no more sharpening challenged than anyone else. Last first: 3450 is TOO fast, you will burn your tools, 1750 or slower is reccomended. I'm not familiar with the System(s) A & B. Some will argue you don't need 'systems' to sharpen. I freehand and it (usually [] ) works for me. The Wolverine is popular but I know people who have it and don't use it. PSI has a much less expensive copy you might want to look at. On the advice of a master turner in my club, I bought one of the 80 grit blue wheels from CS and use it on a 1750 motor. The advice was that a 100 grit is too smooth to really sharpen and a 60 grit so rough it removes too much metal. Others use the 60 for sharpening the go to a 100 for honing. Like I said, any statement will generate counter-opinions. A search here for 'sharpening' is sure to bring up a bunch of past postings on this subject.


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## Old Griz (Dec 4, 2005)

Not to but heads with Frank (but we do [][])
Sharpening is one of the most important skills in woodturning.. without sharp tools you might as well take a axe to your wood.. 
I can't freehand sharpen worth a darn.... especially gouges... 
I use the Woodcraft slow speed grinder, it is currently on sale for $69 http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?DeptID=2054&FamilyID=4605
It comes with an 60 and a 120 grit set of white wheels... I have been using mine for almost 2 years and the wheels are still good.. just remember to dress them occassionally... 
I also use the Wolverine Sharpening Jig #A in this thread http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?DeptID=2056&FamilyID=1998.  I also have their gouge jig for use with my Celtic Ground Bowl gouges.. 
I have found I don't need their skew jig because my skews are reshaped to a Lacer grind... 
OK, that's two members and two opinions...


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## ctEaglesc (Dec 4, 2005)

How about anmother opinion
I free hand mine with a diamond stone.
(Without a moter it takes longer to screw them up.)
Much finer grits than a motorized grinder 400 &750 I believe.
If I choose to use a motorized method a quick trip to my bench sander is all I need.


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## opfoto (Dec 4, 2005)

ok....for what its worth....[]

Had a 6 in grinder with system A...I <u><b>made</b></u> it work (tho' not very well) for about a year, until I had the cash for the one at Woodcraft. Waited for the Sale as Griz said. I remounted the Jig as needed, I am extremely glad that I purchased the new grinder. I don't burn the chisels as much as before. No matter how light of a touch I thought I was using on the faster grinder. Chisels are sharper due to consistancy of the grind with the jig. After only about a year with this presnt setup I think the Woverine system with the grinder from woodcraft is worth every cent. BTW as a side note I sharpen a friends chisels for a buck each and that has offset the money spent a bit. []

I am now thinking of getting the skew attachment...I have been trying to do that by hand and it aint pretty![:I]


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## Easysport (Dec 4, 2005)

Well Marc, I would send you my chisels to sharpen for a buck, but I think the postage would kill me. Tom, Frank, and Eagle, thanks for your coments also.  I'm not sure I can afford the Woodcraft grinder and Wolverine system this close to Xmas, but who knows I may win the Lotto. OOP's I just found our you have to buy a ticket to win[:0]


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## dubdrvrkev (Dec 4, 2005)

Well not too contradict everyone but... Oneway, the manufacture of the Wolverine, recommends an 8" grinder at 3450 RPM. This gives the appropriate speed see here; http://www.newwoodworker.com/reviews/wlvrinervu.html 
I use an 8", 3450rpm grinder and the only time I heat up a tool is when I am reshaping it. On a normal touch-up it doesn't burn.


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## Easysport (Dec 4, 2005)

Kevin, very interesting[] I have a six inch craftmans grinder, but Wolverine says even that will work. OK Frank & Tom, Your thoughts. Maybe I'll get the Wolverine A system and give it a try with my grinder and if that isn't good I can get a slow speed grinder later.  [8]


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## dfurlano (Dec 4, 2005)

To bad you just missed a Rockler sale of 45% of the grinding jig.  I was hand sharpening but I saw one being used in a shop and realized I was spending to much time at the grinding wheel.  With the Wolverine it goes mighty fast.


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## Randy_ (Dec 5, 2005)

I sharpen by hand using a grinder, a sander, a stone or a diamond hone depending upon what is required.  Not a difficult skill to learn; but a good instructor is helpful and it does take some practice!!

Dan:  I don't think anybody has missed anything, yet.....at least not in the Dallas area. There was a flyer in my Sunday paper with an ad for the "Oneway Sharpening Tool Rest" for 50 bucks, reg. $94.  Sale is good from now until Christmas......not sure if this is just the local store or would be available from their web store??  They also listed a couple of accessories(?).  Vari-Grind for $50 and Skew-Grind for $32.


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## Old Griz (Dec 5, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Easysport_
> <br />Kevin, very interesting[] I have a six inch craftmans grinder, but Wolverine says even that will work. OK Frank & Tom, Your thoughts. Maybe I'll get the Wolverine A system and give it a try with my grinder and if that isn't good I can get a slow speed grinder later.  [8]


Yes, that is what Oneway recommends.... and I might have gone that route IF it were not for 3 professional turners at my club who told me to go to a slow speed grinder... 
Now I don't doubt a high speed grinder will work, I just decided to take the word of a couple of pros I knew well... These guys do nothing but turn for a living and do well at it..


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## Ron in Drums PA (Dec 5, 2005)

Agreeing with Griz - Sharp tools are an important skill in turning 

I use a high speed grinder because that is what I have. If I was in the market for a new grinder I would get a slow speed grinder.

I sharpen my skews by hand and use a home made wolverine knock off for my gouges.


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## Rifleman1776 (Dec 5, 2005)

> _Originally posted by dubdrvrkev_
> <br />Well not too contradict everyone but... Oneway, the manufacture of the Wolverine, recommends an 8" grinder at 3450 RPM. This gives the appropriate speed see here; http://www.newwoodworker.com/reviews/wlvrinervu.html
> I use an 8", 3450rpm grinder and the only time I heat up a tool is when I am reshaping it. On a normal touch-up it doesn't burn.



My local woodturning club has several people definately classed as 'masters' and/or professionals. They don't use high speed. Many other members do use high speed grinders and, invariably, the ends of their tools are dark blue to black from burning. And these 'burnt' tools require more frequent sharpening because the temper is gone. An $80.00 gouge can be turned into junk in seconds. With high speed the heat build-up is almost instant. Even having water to dip in isn't protection enough after the fact.


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## Randy_ (Dec 5, 2005)

Although I have and use a HS grinder, I agree with the camp that says the LS grinder is better.  You can certainly use a HS grinder; "BUT" you must be careful and use a light touch.  As Frank said, it is easy to "blue" a tip with just a seconds carelessness!!!  This is not say that you can grind with impunity on a LS grinder.  You can ruin tools with a LS grinder, too.  You just have work a little harder to do it.  As for the snail speed grinders like the Tormack....shall we better call them sharpeners...they are the safest alternative; but are very slow.  Specially when reshaping a tool!! In an ideal world, you would probably want to have both??


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## Thumbs (Dec 5, 2005)

Dave, Go to the OneWay site and read their articles on sharpening and use of their jigs.  PSI does have a cheaper set but it is hard to come by due to limited supplies(long wait time).  Looks like a good deal though and comes pretty much complete.  Don't buy piece meal if you can avoid it.  OneWay makes a good argument about using higher speed grinders but I am also from the old school that slower is better.  I've been reading that slight discolorations on HSS material is not an indicator of loss of tool integrity.  Although it is an almost absolute indicator of damage to High Carbon steels, it is much less so for the High Speed steel products most often available today.   FWIW. Have fun turning, I do recommend the OneWay Wolverine system or something like it. I was contemplating just throwing away my cheap tool sets before I got mine.  (Hmmm.  Come to think of it, I could still be replacing my Harbor Freight sets for what I paid for it!  But this is more satisfying, if not as easy. LOL!)[]


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## rfreeouf (Dec 5, 2005)

I am new to this whole endevor. I understand the importance of grinding at slower speed. 

My question is how would this grinder compare or would it be worth purchasing to sharpen your lathe tools? It seems pretty reasonably priced at $149. Any input would be appreciated.




<br />

The link for the grinder is here:
http://www.grizzly.com/products/item.aspx?itemnumber=G1036


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## dubdrvrkev (Dec 5, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Rifleman_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...



I'm sure there are plenty of the "masters" that use high speed grinders without burning their tools also. 
If you watch the istructional video on the Oneway website you'll notice that the grinder is a high speed grinder and the guy doing the sharpening isn't blueing the tools.
I am not saying that high speed is better than low speed, I am saying that people that use a high speed grinder are not doing anything wrong.


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## Rifleman1776 (Dec 6, 2005)

rfreeouf: I have one of those units on my sharpening/grinding island. When I bought it, I thought I had achieved sharpening nirvana. Not so, it sits there looking useless, which it is nearly is. The big, slow, wet wheel is so fine grit it barely polishes an already sharp edge. Plus it's a bit messy to use and requires maintenance. This same unit is sold by many vendors under different names. e.g. Grizzly, Delta, etc. Save your money.


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## rfreeouf (Dec 6, 2005)

Frank,

I appreaciate the input! Thanks for the information you provided it is definetely helpful.


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## alamocdc (Dec 6, 2005)

I screwed up and bought the Craftsman wet sharpener when it was on sale the end of July. I worked fine and I used it daily, until the wheel fell in two pieces last week. [!] Can't wait to get my new grinder! []


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## Easysport (Dec 6, 2005)

OK, I did it now. Ordered the Woodcraft slow speed grinder and Wolverine sharpening jig. I'm in the doghouse now. I figured if I'm there might as well order a few kits also.[:0][:0][:0][:0][:0]


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## Thumbs (Dec 7, 2005)

Way to go, Sport!


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## woodmanplus (Dec 7, 2005)

This is a very interesting thread. I have been contiplating getting a powered sharpening system and have been drewling over two or three for some time.
 I have been sharpening my tools by hane for many years and have had good luck. I even hand sharpen my lawn mower blades,but thought that I should join the modern world. I have been in two of my friends shops and watched them using thier power sharpening units. I have seen them blue and resharpen a lot. I hav eone friend that has been a turner for years and he uses a 1" powered sanding unit and diamond hones. I have noticed that he and I have less sharpening time and less wear on our turning tools.
  I have come to the conclussion that I do not need the financial out lay as much as I thought that I did.


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## Randy_ (Dec 8, 2005)

> _Originally posted by alamocdc_
> <br />I screwed up and bought the Craftsman wet sharpener when it was on sale the end of July. I worked fine and I used it daily, until the wheel fell in two pieces last week. [!] Can't wait to get my new grinder! []



I bought one too.  Haven't used it much on my turning tools; but every knife in the kitchen has been renewed as well as all of those in the kitchen of my GF.  And the neighbor wants me to do her knives, as well.  I may have a new business venture, here??  Sure hope my stone holds up.


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## TomServo (Dec 8, 2005)

"I'm sure there are plenty of the "masters" that use high speed grinders without burning their tools also. "

I'm sure there are plenty of the "masters" who don't mind buying new chisels every year or two, either.

woodmanplus: I agree fully - the reason I use diamond hones myself is because of my dad's long term success with them... he's been sharpening the same fillet knife for 20 years with a diamond hone.. And there's still as much blade on it as my brand new one, if he'd used a grinder the blade would long ago have ended up as grinding dust on the floor.. I still like to use a grinder to freshen up a profile, but I don't feel that they are appropriate for day to day sharpening. Right tool for the right job and all that

The bottom line, buy whatever floats your boat the most, and gives you the most versatile tool.


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## Andy Ryan (Dec 8, 2005)

Check this out may be what you are looking for not that hard to build.


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## Andy Ryan (Dec 8, 2005)

whoops sorry about that here is the link   http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/w00115.asp


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## Randy_ (Dec 9, 2005)

Andy:  Great link.  Thanks!!  I am going to have to take a little time to study the drawings.....the details are not as clear as one might like; but the general idea of the construction is obvious.  Looks like I have another project to add to my list.[]


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## Chuck Key (Dec 9, 2005)

They are calling it the Deal of the Week

Eight inch Delta slow speed grinder

Regular $94.99  Sale: $69.99

http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=4605

Chuckie


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## woodman928 (Dec 9, 2005)

I have been shopping for a L/S grinder and waiting to find it on sale looks like there are no more excuses to wait now. For those of you that think they want a H/S grinder Grizzly had one on sale for 19.99 and HF had one on sale too. I only live about 10 miles form both stores and after the back surgery I have had plenty of time to shop. Its been about 2 months and I can just now go out and stand in the shop and look around man I cant wait to go work on something but for now I just go and throw dust in the air and get it up my nose and on my pants makes me feel better anyway. [][][][][][][]


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## Rifleman1776 (Dec 9, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Chuck Key_
> <br />They are calling it the Deal of the Week
> 
> Eight inch Delta slow speed grinder
> ...



  That looks like an excellent deal. The grits are not my personal choice but, admittedly, that is a very popular combo. I would just advise going gently with the 60 grit, it can shorten your gouge very quickly.


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## BigL (Dec 9, 2005)

This grinder seems to be a good deal.  I just bought one yesterday.  Please note, however, that it is not a Delta.  It is an unbranded grinder.  But the price is right if it works, and it should!


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## woodman928 (Dec 9, 2005)

I just ordered one too so we will see if they will hold up if the stones are any good at all then its worth the price. Cant wait for it to get here. Tired of seeing my smile on the dull edges of my tools. [][] 

Jay


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## Andy Ryan (Dec 9, 2005)

Randy your welcome.  Ive been looking for a long time to find stuff like that. Glad to have helped.


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## Randy_ (Dec 9, 2005)

> _Originally posted by woodman928_
> <br />I have been shopping for a L/S grinder and waiting to find it on sale looks like there are no more excuses to wait now. For those of you that think they want a H/S grinder Grizzly had one on sale for 19.99 and HF had one on sale too.



Jay:  Is that a store price??  I looked on both web sites and did not find such a deal.  Do you have a link??  Thanks.


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## rfreeouf (Dec 9, 2005)

Since I am clueless about grinders what is the advantage of having a 8" Bench Grinder opposed to a 6" Bench Grinder? The obvious thing is size. I am just curious.


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## Rifleman1776 (Dec 9, 2005)

> _Originally posted by rfreeouf_
> <br />Since I am clueless about grinders what is the advantage of having a 8" Bench Grinder opposed to a 6" Bench Grinder? The obvious thing is size. I am just curious.



Just plain more powerful and the curve of the wheel more approaches 'straight' to prevent too-too much hollowing when sharpening. And, there are few quality six inchers out there with power to do what most of us need in a shop. And most six inchers have only 1/2" or 3/4" wide wheels, eight inchers have 1" wide wheels. In other words, the 8 inch is a machine, the 6 inch is a toy.


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## rfreeouf (Dec 9, 2005)

Rifleman the information you provided is appreciated. Thanks for taking the time to explain it to me.


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## Randy_ (Dec 10, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Rifleman_
> <br />....the 8 inch is a machine, the 6 inch is a toy....



I guess the Jet mini is a toy since it doesn't measure up in size and HP to the Powermatic 4224?  I'm surprised that Frank isn't recommending that everyone run out and purchase a 12" 5 HP grinder from Tim "the Toolman".  No doubt that a 6" grinder doesn't have the capabilities of an 8" unit; but it is hardly a toy.


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## Rifleman1776 (Dec 10, 2005)

I suggest everyone run out and buy a 12"  5hp grinder from Randy.


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## KenV (Dec 11, 2005)

I am puzzled -- 

Most of the tools I use are high speed steel and cobalt steel.  I am learning to be a basic machinist and the metalurgy 101 says that you can "burn" carbon steel by over heating it and losing hardness (over temper).  High speed and cobart steel sharpening instructions are not to get it red hot, and do not dip hot HSS into water as it tends to make it brittle.  

I have done a fair bit with O-1 steel and drill rod as well as making springs with carbon steel -- and High Speed or Cobalt steel are different critters.

I have to really lean into the wheel to get hss red hot.  A little blue does not appear to hurt the edges.

Puzzled Ken in Juneau  Old Foopus Apprentice


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## woodman928 (Dec 11, 2005)

Randy
  Grizzly had one for that in the store here in Springfield Missouri HF I think had a 8" high speed in the store for 39.99 sorry for the confusion and the delay getting back to you. []
Jay


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## Thumbs (Dec 11, 2005)

Randy, up here at the Muncy store Grizzly had the 6", 3450RPM grinders on sale at $29.99 and I think on special sale at $19.99.  I wouldn't swear to that or if the sale was still even on,it might have been a Christmas special. I might get up there later this week and take a look.   They had them stacked right by the entry here all summer and I was shocked but don't really need anymore grinders <s>since I have 2 six inchers and 2 eight inchers and 2 slow speed wet grinders now.   I hate carrying tools around the different shops just to sharpen them!</s>

Sorry that sounded like an awful bad tool gloat![B)]


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## Randy_ (Dec 11, 2005)

Thanks, guys!!  That's a bit far for me.  [][]


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## Randy_ (Dec 11, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Andy Ryan_
> <br />Check this out may be what you are looking for not that hard to build.



 Couldn't stand it!![]  Bought the raw materials at H/D yesterday and have already started putting one together.....probably would already be done; but I got distracted by a football game.[][]


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## Thumbs (Dec 13, 2005)

Randy, The 6inch grinders at Grizzly are $19.95 on the floor while supplies last.  Sorry I was late they just set up a new model lathe that is very similar to the model# G0584, except that it has a 2HP motor and a digital speed readout for $395; and I got sidetracked.  It's not in their catalog yet.  It's a 400 something model number and has the exact same cast iron frame as the 584.  Heavy!  Looooks  verrry interestink! []


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## Rifleman1776 (Dec 13, 2005)

If what you want is a light duty, cheap, practically useless, grinder. Grizzly has it's $19.95 six incher promo pretty frequently.


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## Easysport (Dec 13, 2005)

Got the grinder and wolverine from Woodcrafts today. Now to figure out how to set it up and get to work. Looks like it will do the job and more.[][]


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## Thumbs (Dec 13, 2005)

Frank, what are you grinding?


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## Rifleman1776 (Dec 14, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Thumbs_
> <br />Frank, what are you grinding?



Whatever is needed at the moment. From the tip of an awl to large knife blades, whatever. A big grinder will do big or little jobs. A little grinder will do....almost nothing.


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## Easysport (Dec 15, 2005)

WOW, got the 8in slowspeed gringer with the Wolverine jig set up and working. I didn't know what sharp was til now. What a difference and what fun.[][] Thanks to all for the wonderful info and sure glad I started this thread. Way lots of good discusion.[][]


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