# Did You Get A Good Education In School???



## Randy_ (Jun 16, 2008)

Recently, I was reading a book on the Revolutionary War because I wanted to learn more details about the various military actions than I remembered being covered in my various US History courses.  In one chapter the author made the statement that the pamphlet written by Thomas Paine...called Common Sense...was the most influential American book ever printed.  It occurred to me, that even though I thought I had received a pretty good education in HS and college, I didn't recall ever reading that particular piece of literature......how strange??  I've got a copy of the book...only 42 pages...on order from the public library so I will be able to patch that hole in my education shortly.  

So my curiosity is churning and I am wondering how many of you IAP members have ever read that particular little book??

P.S.  Another interesting fact I learned or perhaps had just forgotten is that the colonies were technically independent from England two days before the 4th of July that is traditionally celebrated as Independence Day.  Richard Henry Lee of Virginia introduced a resolution before the Second Continental Congress on June 7, 1776, stating that the United Colonies are free and independent States and are absolved of all allegiance to the British Crown and that all political connection between them and the State of great Britain is totally dissolved.  Two days later on July 4, the Congress officially ratified the language in the Declaration of Independence as we know it today; but the Congress had technically severed all legal and political ties with the mother country two days earlier!!  How cool!!


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## Rifleman1776 (Jun 16, 2008)

Shameful thing for me to admit, not having read it. I reenact the Revolutionary Rifleman and am a bit of a student of the Rev.
For many years, I used to do presentations on the role of the Rifleman in the Revolution in schools. When I started this, it quickly became apparent that the students had no idea of what I was talking about. They never heard of the American Revolution. When I asked principals why this was, the usual answer I got was, "Oh, we don't bother teaching the Revolution anymore." I could go on a long dissertation as to why but will refrain. Suffice it to say, the reasons are not pro-American and are influenced by forces outside of the formal education system.


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## rincewind03060 (Jun 16, 2008)

I didn't formally answer your poll, because your poll choices don't match your question as posed in the thread title.
My answer is: yes I have read the pamphlet; no I did not get a good education in school.

I read that pamphlet (and many other books) on my own because 1. I was interested in learning and 2. I was bored out of my mind by the drivel that was being offered in public school. I would often read a book hidden under my desk while the teacher droned on at the front of the class. Don't ever confuse "public schooling" with education. They ain't the same thing by a long shot.


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## arjudy (Jun 16, 2008)

I've never read it either. Graduated HS in 1984. I should probably get a copy and read it though. You can read it here:
http://www.earlyamerica.com/earlyamerica/milestones/commonsense/text.html


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## RONB (Jun 16, 2008)

I am an Air Force brat and went to many schools before I graduated from high school in the Canal Zone in Panama and don't remember reading this book.


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## fiferb (Jun 16, 2008)

I remember learning about this book but have never read it.


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## rlharding (Jun 16, 2008)

They didn't teach American history, or the history of any other country in the UK when I was at school.  In fact, they didn't even teach modern British history. we spent our time learning about the Battle of Hastings - 1066 and Tudor history.  We didn't even touch on Queen Victoria.


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## maxwell_smart007 (Jun 16, 2008)

Our history consisted of Canadian history from early settlement to the present day...the only reference to American history was during the war of 1812...

So to answer your question: Yes, I received (scratch that - earned!) an excellent education.  No, I haven't even heard of that book.


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## PR_Princess (Jun 16, 2008)

> _Originally posted by rlharding_
> 
> They didn't teach American history, or the history of any other country in the UK when I was at school.  In fact, they didn't even teach modern British history. we spent our time learning about the Battle of Hastings - 1066 and Tudor history.  We didn't even touch on Queen Victoria.



Really? Wow Ruth, I sure am glad that I went to a different school there. 
Of course, all that was probably more along the lines of a "Current Events" class for me!! [:0]


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## Paul in OKC (Jun 16, 2008)

I don't recall reading it, but we may have it. If not, we'll be looking for it!  One thing about home schooling our kids is that we are looking for things like that, and have a few that are really great.


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## DCBluesman (Jun 16, 2008)

Yes, it was required reading in about 9th grade as I recall.  We also read "The Crisis" (http://www.ushistory.org/Paine/crisis/index.htm) aloud in class.


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## txbatons (Jun 16, 2008)

Yes, I've read it, but will admit to have skimmed it prior to college and more thoroughly in my adult years. I teach and the summertime is my best chance to get my reading in. For two summers (about 15 years ago) I only read the books that I felt I had missed....books like Catcher in the Rye, Black Like Me, Invisible Man, Poe, Faulkner, and others. It was a great time and it spurred me to go back to school to get my masters degree. Common Sense was an element of that period and I am always amazed at how versed and intelligent the Founding Fathers were (another good book, by the way).


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## great12b4ever (Jun 16, 2008)

Yes, it was required reading for us.  Like Lou, we also read "The Crisis". Our American History teacher had us read and study a lot more than just the text book.  Our literature teacher got into a little trouble by having us read and make reports on "Grapes of Wrath," "East of Eden," and other John Steinbeck books like (the Pearl", "The Comb," which were frowned on by some people in the late 50's and early 60's.  I like to think I had a reasonably good education, as it helped me pass some college level tests early and get what was then called "life credits" as I went on to get my degrees (I do mean plural).


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## Ron in Drums PA (Jun 16, 2008)

Yes, but about 10 or so years ago

Here is the full text
http://www.ushistory.org/paine/commonsense/singlehtml.htm


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## mwenman (Jun 16, 2008)

And even though the majority of those who signed the Declaration did so on or before July 4th,  it actually took over 2 years to get all the signatures on it.

And..speaking of the Revolutionary War, did you see in the news that a 22 gun British warship was found in Lake Superior that had sunk in 1720 because of a storm?


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## rlharding (Jun 17, 2008)

Hey Dawn, 'Current Events' was not even on the horizon. I did HS from '65 - '72.  Where did you go to school? I was in Manchester at a public convent school. Public school means something different in NA.  In the UK as you know, but others may not, it's just the regular school system, not somewhere private that you pay.

How far back are you going? Soon after I left school they went to the comprehensive system and didn't require one to pass exams to go to a 'higher' school.


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## leehljp (Jun 17, 2008)

I didn't check any of the replies. I have read so many books in my life that I can't remember if I read it or not. I remember the name well and I am sure it was required reading. As such I must have. 

Last year I was asked to review a book that was in re-print from the late '60s. I pulled the old book off of my bookshelf that I bought 35 years ago and it was marked on almost every page with personal notes in margins everywhere. When I read the book as a review last year, it was totally new to me (not the concepts or ideas) and it was like reading it for the first time. The notes I made 30 years agoâ€”were astounding to me last year! In another era, I was smart!  What has happened to me? [:I]

The point is, "Common Sense" is a title I remember well, but for the life of me, I don't remember the contents or if I did in fact read it. It has stimulated my interest to read it (again?).


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## Randy_ (Jun 17, 2008)

> _Originally posted by mwenman_
> 
> And even though the majority of those who signed the Declaration did so on or before July 4th,  it actually took over 2 years to get all the signatures on it.....



Near as I can discover only two people actually signed the DoI on July 4.  They were John Hancock and Charles Thomas, President and Secretary, respectively, of the Continental Congress.  Most of the signatures were not acquired until August 2 when an "engrossed" copy of the document was available.  A few members of the CC did not sign until later and at least one member never signed at all....he was a Tory and was against independence from England.


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## rincewind03060 (Jun 17, 2008)

Thanks for the link, Ron. 
That pamphlet could have easily gotten Paine convicted of treason and hanged. He had the guts to put his own name on it in an era when most political writers hid behind a pen name. Paine is probably the most underrated "Founding Father". He had a profound effect on our history and deserves more recognition.


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## Ozzy (Jun 20, 2008)

I graduated in '86, we never read it; it was referred to but never assigned. I am currently working on my B.A. in history (I have a big head, it took a long time to get it out of my butt) at a major university, I have completed all of the required history courses, and even though it was referred to, it was never assigned or even suggested that we read it.


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## TellicoTurning (Jun 20, 2008)

I think we touched on the book in U.S. History but can't say for sure whether I've read it through or not... I went to a small Texas high school in the late 50's, (graduated in '60) and I think overall we got a fairly good education.. much better than today where the teachers are so ham-strung on how, what and when they can teach...   We did cover Texas history pretty thoroughly in 7th or 8th grade.. our text book was an illustrated comic book style text.


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## Armacielli (Jun 22, 2008)

I had about the best public school education in Ohio in the small town of Cedarville. I was out for much of my freshman yr due to my tumor which is when we'd have mentioned this, but Jr. English covered Thomas Paine extensively. We never read it, but had to memorise important quotes such as "These are the times that try men's souls"&lt;- yeah, I still got it. So, in conclusion: didn't read it, but learned about it.


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## Randy_ (Jun 22, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Armacielli_
> 
> I had about the best public school education in Ohio in the small town of Cedarville. I was out for much of my freshman yr due to my tumor which is when we'd have mentioned this, but Jr. English covered Thomas Paine extensively. We never read it, but had to memorise important quotes such as "These are the times that try men's souls"&lt;- yeah, I still got it. So, in conclusion: didn't read it, but learned about it.



I don't mean for this to be as negative as it probably sounds; but I'm not sure how much you "learn" about a book without reading it.  You really don't know much about "MOBY DICK" if you learned it was a story about a guy chasing a whale.


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## Ozzy (Jun 22, 2008)

> I don't mean for this to be as negative as it probably sounds; but I'm not sure how much you "learn" about a book without reading it. You really don't know much about "MOBY DICK" if you learned it was a story about a guy chasing a whale.



"Moby Dick" is a book?!?!?! I thought it was a STD![}]
I'm gonna have to go to the library and check this out.


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## Armacielli (Jun 22, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Randy__
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## bitshird (Jun 23, 2008)

Randy, I believe that I received a decent education for a hellion, I was not the best student when I was young, I couldn't wait to graduate, in fact I couldn't wait to leave Las Vegas, shortly there after I found thee were worse places!!
At 25 I decided to further my education and got a degree.
Now after being an assistant instructor at a vocational facility I am thankful I went to school in the 50s and 60s. 
 This No Child Left Behind has dropped the level of education in order to make every child appear above average in intelligence, that combined with Ebonics, placing more emphasis on Athletics, less on Physical education, Art, and Music have left our schools turning out 17-18-19 year olds that do not know how to fill out a simple resume, or job application, 
 The college entrance standards have dropped to meet the onslaught of poorly equipped High School graduates. I think that leveling the playing field was the most absurd thing the Government at the Federal level could possibly have done JMHO of course[:0][:0][:0][:0][:0][:0]


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## randyrls (Jun 27, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Randy__
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Here is a question for everyone.  How many copies of the original signed Declaration of Independence were there?  How many still survive?

How many copies were printed for general distribution (not signed) to the colonies?


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## eskimo (Jun 29, 2008)

Boy, is the title of this thread a loaded question,

I grew up as a military child and entered 9th grade in my 10th school (both pulic and private), graduating High School in 1971.  Like the old saying, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink", I believe it is not the school that creates an educated student, it is the student that takes advantage of the opportunities available.

I was fortunate to have parents that made me read.  I remember hating it, then loving it.  I don't remember when this metamorphosis took place, just the constant urging of my folks to "Read a book".  Growing up, we would always play games that would exercise the muscle in your head, like Scrabble and Cribbage.  I firmly believe that this is what prepared me to take advantage of the educational opportunities I encountered.  I admit that I didn't do as well in areas that didn't hold my interest (High School Chemistry still eludes me), but I attribute that more to my excessive interest in my lab partner, Donna, than in the curriculum.

Oddly enough, it was athletics that sent me to college, but it was the foundation laid by my parents that made me acquire an education, rather than just a degree.

As a father of 5 children (2 college graduates and 3 in Elementary school - What was I thinking?), I still believe that the best gift I can give them is to make them think and I gladly assume that responsibility.  The topic is not as important as the exercise of thought and the most wonderful word I can hear from my kids is "Why".

By the way, I have not read Common Sense, but I do recall it as suggested reading when I was in High School, however I think Donna was in that class also.


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## DocStram (Jun 29, 2008)

Yes, I read it in junior highschool and a few times since then.  Maybe the reason it isn't read now in our schools is because "it's not on the test" .... thanks to the ridiculous emphasis on "high stakes testing" ..... teachers can no longer teach the things that make sense. Instead, they're forced to make their students pass criterion referenced tests.


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## Randy_ (Jun 30, 2008)

> _Originally posted by randyrls_
> 
> .....Here is a question for everyone.  How many copies of the original signed Declaration of Independence were there?  How many still survive?
> 
> How many copies were printed for general distribution (not signed) to the colonies?



So what is the answer????


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## eskimo (Jun 30, 2008)

There were about 200 Dunlap broadsides printed on July 5th.  There are 25 known to still exist, most in public institutions.  4 are privately held.


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## randyrls (Jul 24, 2008)

Randy_ said:


> So what is the answer????



Sorry;   There were 200 copies of the declaration printed for distribution to the colonies and other countries and powers.  These copies were not signed, and had only the printed names of John Hancock and Charles Thomson.

There was only one signed copy but it was signed between July 19 and Aug 2nd.

Later a primitive coping process was used to create multiple images of the original signed document.  One of these was taken on a tour in 1976 to mark the 200th anniversary of the Declaration.

Some time ago, a person bought an oil painting at an estate sale in Adamstown PA.  He wanted the frame.  Upon disassembling the painting, he found one of the 200 copies of the Declaration.  Value:  1+ million dollars.


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## titan2 (Jul 24, 2008)

P.S.  Another interesting fact I learned or perhaps had just forgotten is that the colonies were technically independent from England two days before the 4th of July that is traditionally celebrated as Independence Day.  Richard Henry Lee of Virginia introduced a resolution before the Second Continental Congress on June 7 said:
			
		

> Actually........until it was ratified it was of no effect.  Once ratified, it became official and thus the reason we celebrate the 4th of July and not the 2nd.


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## GBusardo (Jul 24, 2008)

I have heard of the article, but never read it.  I asked my son (who just graduated high school) and he said he read it a couple of years ago as a junior.  As far as my own education, all I can say is that "I BLEW IT". One of my main goals in life now is to encourage all the school children I know to take full advantage of everything your school has to offer.  Skipping college is NOT an option. 
As far as the article goes,  I just scanned it and saved the link to my favorite places. It's fascinating!  Thanks


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## dogcatcher (Jul 28, 2008)

I also was a military brat, I think some of the best education I received was while overseas attending schools ran by the DOD.  Every time we came stateside I had to sit in class and be bored by last years lessons.  I graduated in 1966, before the era of public education taking the road of having teachers teach about a test.


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## Hosspen (Jul 28, 2008)

I also remember reading about it but not reading it. 
I figure the importance of the pamphlet should be noted since many Americans pride themselves on having common sense (I know the government is an exception to that idea) I think he said somethng about even the best government being a "necessary evil" That makes sense to me.


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