# Chinese Recalls



## Randy_ (Oct 5, 2007)

I just saw on the news this evening that the Boy Scouts were recalling 900,000(?) little gizmos that are part of the Cub Scout uniform decorations.  If you guessed it was because of excessive lead in the paint, you would be correct. 

That got me to thinking.  I've got a set of drill bits out in the shop that were Chinese made and came packaged in a little tin box with a nice Ferrari Red paint job.  I wonder how much lead is in that red paint??  I've got a Chinese lathe that is painted and a Chinese drill press that is painted and who knows what else.....hell, I've even got a Chinese made bicycle!!

Since I don't have any youngsters running around the house, it is probably not a big concern for me; but you young fellows out there who have kids running around might want to give the subject some thought.


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## cowchaser (Oct 5, 2007)

Pretty unfortunate that in today's society we even need to be worrying about this kind of stuff. Everytime a new recall comes out I have to start digging through my kids toys looking. So far we have been lucky and only found 1 set on the list. Not worried about trying to get money back or a replacement. Threw it in the trash. Just glad nothing happened to my son.


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## CHICAGOHAND (Oct 5, 2007)

I think it is time to monopolies on MADE IN AMERICA.
That was my modo at the craft show last saturday.


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## kghinsr (Oct 5, 2007)

I, since I started making crafts of all kinds, advocated MADE IN USA however its hard to compete with the 3 dollar pen others were selling but I didn't care and still don't. I would still like to have a pen kit MADE IN USA. I have asked in the past and will ask again. DOES ANYONE KNOW OF SUCH A KIT AND WHERE TO BUY IT. thanks for the privelage to rant a little.[^]
ken


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## wood-of-1kind (Oct 5, 2007)

Food for thought:

Who is providing the "funding" for these lead infused MADE IN CHINA manufacturing ventures?

-Peter-[]


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## kghinsr (Oct 5, 2007)

Peter
would it be the same ones that send tech support to India???????[?]


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## wood-of-1kind (Oct 5, 2007)

> _Originally posted by kghinsr_
> <br />Peter
> would it be the same ones that send tech support to India???????[?]



Yah, same bunch.

-Peter-[]


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## Firefyter-emt (Oct 5, 2007)

Meanwhile... in a cannoe on a lake, the very same boy scouts are calmly sitting with a finhing pole in hand, lead weights on the line...

Good grief... I mean just how much of an issue is this really?? I mean is the trace lead found really that much to be alarmed about? You would think it was freaking nuclear waste! What about lead fishing weights? I bet they have quite a bit of lead in them and I can remeber biting them as a kid to put them on the line! What PPM of lead do you think is found in the typical tackle box? Oh my!! You have to stop driving your car too!! They have SOLID LEAD weights on the wheels that a child could die from if he was chewing on your car rims!!

Geesh!


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## Rifleman1776 (Oct 5, 2007)

Randy, unless you plan to eat your lathe and drill press, I don't believe there is a real concern. Firefighter, so....that's how it happened. []


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## esheffield (Oct 5, 2007)

Firefyter, I agree. And I'm a Den Leader for my son's Bear Cub den, and he has one of those things on his uniform right now. And honestly I'm not particularly worried about it. He doesn't chew on it, or even touch it that much. There's a very small amount of paint on them anyway, and frankly I'd be surprised if there would be enough to do any harm if he someone chew it all off.

On the other hand, I would love for this incident to make the BSA start insisting on MADE IN AMERICA for all our scout equipment.


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## Firefyter-emt (Oct 5, 2007)

Eddie, now that I do agree with you 100% althought I am not an "all out" give me 'merican made or die" I do think that something as simple as this, and given a group like the BSA, they should insist on this themselves.  

Again, like I said... I highly dobut that if you ate all the paint off of one, it would be any worse than the exposure from going fishing and putting some weights on you line, yet I have not seen a huge "mass media scare" to pull those from Wal-Mart. The strange thing is that replacments are simple and already sold such as brass and many other materials, yet lead is still No.1, odd Huh?


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## ed4copies (Oct 5, 2007)

When we "old farts" grew up our houses were painted with lead-based paint, our toys were coated with lead-based paint, there were NO fillers for the electric plugs - why CHILDREN DIED!!  We could play Tag on the playground - I remember running into the brick schoolhouse while looking behind me to avoid the "tag" -Children DIED.

However, a few of us survived (we became known as the "boomers" cause we had bounced off so much stuff).  Now, all your kids will be raised in a bubble and, when a cold comes around, they will all get it and children will DIE, cause they have not had the opportunity to develop any tolerance for ANYTHING.

So, what's worse?????


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## Chasper (Oct 5, 2007)

I tried, but I can't resist weighing in on this.  For the past several weeks I've spent way more time than should have been necessary in dealing with the lead in consumer products issues.

It would be hard to find a source from whom to buy lead paint in the US.  It is nearly impossible to find non-lead paint in China.  Everything you buy from China has some lead in it, the FDA regulates products that are intended for contact with food (dinnerware, coffee mugs, pots and pans, etc).  The FDA has a system in place to catch products that exceed the mas PPM, it is a spot check system, same as they use for foods, cosmetics, drugs, toiletries, etc.  Spot testing is not as good as 100% testing, but 100% is not feasable and products that exceed the max will get caught eventually.  Since children are especially prone to chewing on their toys, jewelry and room decor, and since ingesting lead is particularily harmful to children, the makers of products for children need to be extra attentive to lead issues.

Somebody needs to get a dose of reality on this issue.  There are systems in place to catch the lead, they work reasonably well if not absolutely.  US importers are highly motivated to sell safe products.  When a product is found to contain lead, we could view that as evidence that the system that was established to detect containments is working.  Instead it seems like we take that as unfounded evidence that everything that comes from China is contanimated.

After talking to a good number of consumers who are alarmed about possible lead content and wanting to see testing lab results for every single painted item that they touch, I wish they could get all of them to understand the following: China is not one big manufacturing plant that is tightly managed by one management team.  It consists of hundreds of thousands of manufacturers; some good and some bad.  In aggregate they are highly motivated to make products that are acceptable to the US and other markets (European lead content standards are more stringent than US) including their domestic market, because they are aware that if they repeatedly fail to meet safety standards, their customers will leave them and/or their government will close them down. 

So who is to blame here?  Is it the chicken or the egg?  Are US suppliers, distributors and retailers to blame because they are trying to lower production costs?  Or is it the US consumer because she/he is willing to buy the lowest cost product, even if the quality is questionable? Who is to say that the quality is always less if a product is made in China, I believe it is often better if it is China made.

Do you appreciate quality enough to pay extra for better service, better quality and a better purchasing experience?  Or, are you a highly motivated "lowest price" buyer?

Do you buy your pen supplies from CSUSA because they have a killer site, a catalog that is more like a coffee table art book than a catalog, only the best of the best of products and great service?  Or do you go looking for somebody selling more or less comparable merchandise for a few pennies less? 

I wish I could say that I always make my purchase decisions based on quality issues, but I can't, and I believe that few people can.  I've tried over and over to sell made in USA for a higher price because the quality was better, and it has never come even close to working out.


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## ed4copies (Oct 5, 2007)

Chasper,

If people wanted quality above all else, WalMart would NOT be the largest retail operation in the world.

It SOUNDS good to say you want quality.  Then, do you purchase ALL your clothes at Sax?  Does EVERYONE drive a CADDY or better (for those who will argue Cadillac quality is not great anymore - is your car an even BETTER model?)  

When we purchase "acceptable" quality for a lower price, we allow ourselves more "disposable income" to purchase that SECOND dishwasher your wife needs to support her 2500 sq. ft home (in 1960, the average home was 950ish sq. ft. - families with 4 children survived nicely on "bunk beds" washing dishes BY HAND - cruel and unusual punishment, for sure!)

Sorry, this is straying.  We are raising a generation of "molly-coddled" prima donnas.  Meanwhile, the rest of the world is trying to rise to our standard.  Nature has a rule - the STRONG survive.

Good luck with the WEAK generation in the world arena!!!!!!!!

The only constant is change and the "world order" currently recognizes the USA as the SUPER POWER - When will that CHANGE, and WHY???


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## LEAP (Oct 5, 2007)

We are Americans we like to overreact! Remember a few years ago when all the hoopla about pressure treated wood containing arsenic went on. I did a little looking onto that "crisis" it turned out you would need to eat about 12 lineal feet of 2x4 to have any lasting effects. People were replacing decks for fear of leathal splinters. Should lead paint be on childrens toys? NO. Is it a national emergency? I think not.


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## Mudder (Oct 5, 2007)

I grew up in an age where lead paint was everywhere and our pipes were covered with asbestos and except for the fact that I can't be x-rayed and I have an extra toe in my left foot I'm fine.

Ed, Do you remember the Cadillac Cimarron of 1982?


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## RONB (Oct 5, 2007)

Don't lick your tools[][][}]


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## Dario (Oct 5, 2007)

> _Originally posted by LEAP_
> <br />We are Americans we like to overreact! ... Is it a national emergency? I think not.



LOL.  

Not to say the preventive measures are wrong but I do agree that SOMETIMES we do over react.  Our body can tolerate these hazardous materials to some degree.  Some people react faster than others though (just like with wood) []

I grew up in Asia (Philippines to be exact) and I used to play with lead washers as weight for various toys.  We make "shuttle ****" like toys with it and play for almost the whole day for months at a time.  I also cooked/melted lead and casted my own toys (throwing stars/discs) during a certain ninja craze.  I am not saying to let our kids do the same but with my exposure and how things are "painted" by some...I should be long dead, or all my brain cells should be (maybe they are and I am just a zombie without knowing it).  Or MAYBE...if I didn't play with those lead I am now a super genius!!! (I seriously doubt that) LOL

I also grew up in a community where some roofs and pipes (like Mudder said) are made of asbestos.  Water pipes are okay but the roofs supposedly deteriorates slowly and mixes with the air we breathe.  So far I haven't heard any of my old neighbors/friends got sick from it.

I believe the human body is more resilient and can handle a little of everything.  There are times when, like exercise, I believe we actually need some just to keep our immune system active and in tip top shape.

That said...I certainly am not taking any chances with my kids...and MAYBE that is why their immune system seems weaker than mine.

Okay I just got myself confused...maybe those lead really did something to me...


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## Rifleman1776 (Oct 5, 2007)

> _Originally posted by LEAP_
> <br />We are Americans we like to overreact! Remember a few years ago when all the hoopla about pressure treated wood containing arsenic went on. I did a little looking onto that "crisis" it turned out you would need to eat about 12 lineal feet of 2x4 to have any lasting effects. People were replacing decks for fear of leathal splinters. Should lead paint be on childrens toys? NO. Is it a national emergency? I think not.



As said, a dose of reality is needed. The treated wood reference reminds me a story. I once worked for a large campground. Picnic tables had to be replaced frequently because of rot. The campground was prevented, by law, from using table made of treated lumber. The fear was that a child would lay an item of food on the table then eat it and get some kind of heebie-jeebies from the chemicals in the wood. Fact is/was that no transfer would take place and the child would have to _<b>EAT</b>_ the table to have any ill effects. Nonethless, Chinese lead in our products is, IMHO, unacceptable.


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## mdburn_em (Oct 5, 2007)

> _Originally posted by Chasper_
> 
> ...In aggregate they are highly motivated to make products that are acceptable to the US and other markets (European lead content standards are more stringent than US) including their domestic market, because they are aware that if they repeatedly fail to meet safety standards, their customers will leave them and/or their government will close them down.



Might I add, even execute them?
Remember what happened over the issue with fish recently...somebody died over there.


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## Chasper (Oct 5, 2007)

Mark,
As I mentioned, "they are highly motivated."  

I think we are going to be suprised at the collective Chinese response to this.  They will make some changes to protect their marketing opportunities but the suprise will be how aggressively they act to protect their domestic safety.  They certainly don't think as one body, but if the concensus turns out to be that conclude that lead is dangerous for Chinese children, then they will make drastic changes, but if they conclude that it is one more American over-reaction they will pay lip service to a few changes and safety measures.

Keep in mind that through Proposition 65, California has had much tighter lead PPM standards than the rest of the country for more than 20 year now.  As well as I can tell, the possibility remains high that the population of California suffers from at least the same level of brain malfunction as the rest of the country. []


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## Ron in Drums PA (Oct 5, 2007)

> _Originally posted by wood-of-1kind_
> <br />Food for thought:
> 
> Who is providing the "funding" for these lead infused MADE IN CHINA manufacturing ventures?
> ...



Everyone who buys from Wal-Mart


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## wood-of-1kind (Oct 5, 2007)

> _Originally posted by Ron in Drums PA_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...



Partially correct, there is someone even before the Wal-Mart purchaser.

-Peter-[]


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## Ron in Drums PA (Oct 5, 2007)

> _Originally posted by Dario_
> 
> I used to play with lead washers as weight for various toys.  We make "shuttle ****" like toys with it and play for almost the whole day for months at a time.  I also cooked/melted lead and casted my own toys (throwing stars/discs) during a certain ninja craze.



When I was a kid in school, I remember opening a thermometer to get to the mercury.  We let the mercury roll around in our hands, we flicked it with our fingers to watch it splat all over the place. It was kind of neat.

Today, if a mercury thermometer broke, the school officials would be obligated to call in a Haz-Mat team to clean the building.

Now, I'm not saying what I did was smart, and some may say that this story explains allot. All I can say is "Thank God Coffee Is Still Safe!"  (twitch, twitch)

BTW - did you know that 90%+ of all the vitamin C used in this counrty comes from China. (twitch, twitch)



Damn Tick


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## Ron in Drums PA (Oct 5, 2007)

> _Originally posted by wood-of-1kind_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...



Maybe, but that person(s) is driven by the Wal-Mart purchaser assuming that Wal-Mart is the cheapest retailer around.


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## Mikey (Oct 5, 2007)

> _Originally posted by RONB_
> <br />Don't lick your tools[][][}]



or eat them.

I don't know why or how it would matter if my tools had lead paint on them. I'm not eating it, I'm using it.

My son has Thomas stuff and we don't care. I've never seen either one of my kids put a Thomas anything in their mouth.


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## Dario (Oct 5, 2007)

> _Originally posted by Ron in Drums PA_
> When I was a kid in school, I remember opening a thermometer to get to the mercury.  We let the mercury roll around in our hands, we flicked it with our fingers to watch it splat all over the place. It was kind of neat.



I used to do that too, and love watching the small pieces/drops "fuse" together too.

I also love "coating" my old copper coins with them...turning into an instant "chrome" finish.


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## Mudder (Oct 5, 2007)

> _Originally posted by Chasper_
> <br />  As well as I can tell, the possibility remains high that the population of California suffers from at least the same level of brain malfunction as the rest of the country. []



Hmmmm,

Don't tell Fanger, It's still 4:00 last Tuesday to him []

(Yes James, I know I'm a dork!)


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## dalemcginnis (Oct 5, 2007)

> _Originally posted by Chasper_
> <br />Mark,
> 
> Keep in mind that through Proposition 65, California has had much tighter lead PPM standards than the rest of the country for more than 20 year now.



Actually prop 65 did not set the ppm standards, it merely required the posting of safety stickers in every business that might have or sell a carcinogen on its premises.  A big joke, every public building you go into now has the sticker including grocery stores and restaurants.  So what its saying is living is hazardous to your health.
As for the mental health of Californians, considering the way we vote I'm not so sure of our ability to think.[]


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## alamocdc (Oct 5, 2007)

> _Originally posted by Ron in Drums PA_
> When I was a kid in school, I remember opening a thermometer to get to the mercury.  We let the mercury roll around in our hands, we flicked it with our fingers to watch it splat all over the place. It was kind of neat.



So did I, Ron. And then in the late '70's I worked in a lab and used Mercury to determine the volumn and densities of rock samples. I will tell you that after about 45 minutes of working with it, my throat would start to tighten. I found out not long after that this is one of the sypmtoms of Mercury poisoning. It would go away after a few hours, but I really don't want to think about the possible long term damage I may have incurred. I pray, none.[] Moral of the story, DON'T mess with Mercury, kids. It's bad stuff!


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## thewishman (Oct 5, 2007)

> _Originally posted by ed4copies_
> <br />
> We are raising a generation of "molly-coddled" prima donnas.



I prefer to think of myself as a Prima Don! [][]

And by the way, you left out <u>pantywaists</u>.

Chris


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## wdcav1952 (Oct 5, 2007)

I think the best way to see if there really is a problem is to have a photo tutorial of Randy eating his lead paint lathe.


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## Firefyter-emt (Oct 5, 2007)

We got a set of coffee cups from my parents one year for Christmas and had a big old laugh at the Cali-stickers that told us that these cups could cause cancer. We still have them and we call them our "cancer cups"


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## dalemcginnis (Oct 5, 2007)

For dangerous substances, check this site out.

http://www.energyfiend.com/death-by-caffeine/


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## Ron in Drums PA (Oct 5, 2007)

Thanks Buddies!!!

I'll give up turning before I give up coffee!!


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