# Possible Large Order



## gmreeves (Apr 19, 2010)

I possibly have an order for 500 pens.  I realize that is a very large order and I would have to order a lot of materials.  I am trying to come up with a supply list so I can get a deposit from the person to cover my up front costs.  What all do you think I would need to complete an order of 500 slimline pens other than the kits and blanks?


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## Oldwagon (Apr 19, 2010)

I would get some extra transmissions and glue.


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## snowman56 (Apr 19, 2010)

Help
My frist order for pens was for 100 slimline and my the time i was thru i never wanted to see another pen.Don't under sale them.


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## jttheclockman (Apr 19, 2010)

gmreeves said:


> I possibly have an order for 500 pens. I realize that is a very large order and I would have to order a lot of materials. I am trying to come up with a supply list so I can get a deposit from the person to cover my up front costs. What all do you think I would need to complete an order of 500 slimline pens other than the kits and blanks?


 

Prayers!!!!!!

That may sound like a great order but when done you will not want to see another slimline again. What finish are you going to use??? What is the time frame???  Good luck you are going to need it.


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## ed4copies (Apr 19, 2010)

500 slimlines, bushing to bushing will make you REALLY SICK of turning.

Couple extra drill bits--fair amount of CA--put thin CA in the indent, after you "face" the blanks, will make fewer of them split at the nib.  AT LEAST 40 extra tube sets.

Make the blank as SMALL as you can and still drill straight.

Try to arrange delivery in "waves" of 100, get paid in full every time you deliver a "wave".  Keeps your financial exposure down AND motivates you--you actually SEE some CASH from time to time.

GOOD LUCK!!!!  glad it's you and not me.


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## medemt (Apr 19, 2010)

A duplicator (LOL)


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## ed4copies (Apr 19, 2010)

medemt said:


> A duplicator (LOL)





:frown::frown:Tried that, it was MUCH slower than turning by hand.


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## bitshird (Apr 19, 2010)

Sand paper or Abranet, extra Transmissions and tubes, don't bother trying to save tubes from blow outs and extra epoxy and thin CA, I would suggest using 1 hr epoxy as you can get more sets glued before you have to mix epoxy again, let it set 24 hours though and your good to go.Congratulations on a large order, I hope you still enjoy turning after you're through.


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## Mark (Apr 19, 2010)

Congrats on the order.  Good Luck..


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## JerrySambrook (Apr 19, 2010)

Patience, Patience, and more Patience,
And do it incrementally.
Do not try to deliver all at once, or you could probably end up hating turning for a long time (survivor of this syndrome)


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## DurocShark (Apr 19, 2010)

ed4copies said:


> :frown::frown:Tried that, it was MUCH slower than turning by hand.



Yeah, but you can recruit the kids...


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## snyiper (Apr 19, 2010)

Wow I would say in addition to the above get some help!!!


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## hewunch (Apr 19, 2010)

friends who want to get paid to turn


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## ed4copies (Apr 19, 2010)

DurocShark said:


> Yeah, but you can recruit the kids...




Good thought!!!:biggrin::biggrin:

Couple extra lathes for your helpers!!!


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## greggas (Apr 19, 2010)

just finished my largest order ever ( 200 pens)...I would try to get a new back!


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## Chief Hill (Apr 19, 2010)

gmreeves said:


> I possibly have an order for 500 pens. I realize that is a very large order and I would have to order a lot of materials. I am trying to come up with a supply list so I can get a deposit from the person to cover my up front costs. What all do you think I would need to complete an order of 500 slimline pens other than the kits and blanks?


 
Good Question. My suggestion is buy your materials in bulk and it will be cheper. 
You can buy CA by the 8oz bottle.  Its a good idea in this case as you will use it all.
By your lumber by the board foot if you can and cut it yourself thin to reduce waste and especially the excess turing time if you cut the blanks too large.
Plan for spare tubes and transmissions. 

I am working on 100 now and its a pain.  With more to come too.

I suggest you figure out some simple things first. 
1 How much per pen?
2 What types of wood?
3. Gift boxes?
Anything special engraving etc.
Figure all that out and calculate how much off all materials you will need and I would ask for at least 25% down payment per 100 made.  As others have said make only100 at a time. Just incase the client decides to bow out of the order after the first 100 and you being left with 400 slim kits and everything to make them.
IMHO. Just a word of advise If you have a buddy/fellow turner I would also contract his her assistance in the deal. Its gonna take forever to do this.  Like a full time job. I love pen turning but it does get irritating when it turnes into a "production line"  If you have a local friend help with the cutting and drilling/gluing it will save you a ton of time and maybe a ULCER . 

GOOD LUCK


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## gmreeves (Apr 19, 2010)

Wow! I leave for lunch and it is already on page 2. Great advice. I can't even imagine doing 500 slims but am willing to do it if the offer is there. I already have a full time job, deliver pizza's for a second job, and run my own small business making the bamboo fly rods. I would definately stop the pizza delivery if this goes through and I have about 8 months to get them done. I also have the help of my wife, mother, and father, that could help with everything except the turning. I'm sure it will be a chore, but it will really help me with the get out of debt plan. The extra twist mechanism and tubes isn't something I had thought about. I will most likely be using cocobolo and a friction polish. Easy to turn and easy to finish. Their would be a single line engraving on each pen and no gift box.  Most likely, I will only use the cheap velvety pen slip.  The guy likes them but has to run it past the other business partners first. I would definately do it in batches and require the deposit to cover the cost up front. Thanks again for all the quick replies.


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## rsmith (Apr 19, 2010)

PLEASE don't take this in any other way than it is meant, but was this an online order through a website or something like that, or was it someone you know or is perfectly legit? If it is a legit orger, congrats, and I would second the parts in bulk ideas. You will never want to see a slimline again, so make sure you squeeze every cent you can out of it:biggrin: remember, even 10 cents per pen is an extra 50.00 
The reason I ask is that there are many people that will place online orders that aren't legit.  I know many pen makers who have been contacted like this, as well as have seen it firsthand.  I know people that have even gotten 50% deposits that turned out 8 weeks later to have been from a stolen card #. Luckily, when our questions were only vaguely answered we decicded against filling the order, even though it would have been roughly 60 grand...and we would have been screwed if we would have gone through with it.
Again, congratulations, just a word of caution if it's an online order...


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## HSTurning (Apr 19, 2010)

I would set them up in 20-25 pens at a time.  Standing in front of any tool for hours will get old fast.  
Extras that will be needed:
Glue
Finish of choice
Sand paper / Abernet
MM if using
I would also add 10 additional kits for lost, missing or damaged parts
I also used a few of the cheap $13-$18 24 pen trays.  You can turn 18 to 24 pens. Put the turned tubes in the tray keeping them in pairs and bring them into the house and assemble sitting on a chair of on the couch watching TV.
Dont plan on doing hours in the shop day after day.  Take breaks you will get burnt out other wise.
You ned to know how you are going to deliver.  Do they want them in trays, each in a box, a plastic tube or in a plastic bag and make sure you have them on hand to put the finished pens away once completed.
Make sure the deposit(non refundable) covers all product cost at least so you can at the least not worry about being out any money is anything were to happen if they want to back out after the first part of the delivery.  Losing time isnt fun but at least its not money.


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## gmreeves (Apr 19, 2010)

Yes.  This is someone I know and have been friends with for years.  He is part of a company that gives out gifts every year to their clients and he thinks this is definately a better gift than what they have been giving out.  I am not counting on this as going through but I wanted to get others input so it will help me make a better decision if the need arises.  I am keeping my fingers crossed though so we'll see.


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## HSTurning (Apr 19, 2010)

You said you would get the pens engraved.  I would see if the client would go for getting the clips engraved instead.  That way you can do all the pens and not worry about any problems with the engraving on the pen.  Get 7mm Ti with that flat clips not the fancy clip.  You can also open the pen kits and send all the clips out at once.  Just have a a sample made to show your customer.  Constant made a small jig to hold the 80 clips I sent to him and and they turned out good.


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## gmreeves (Apr 19, 2010)

I was thinking about that as well.  I was wondering if it could be done.  If they decide to have me do it, I'll probably make a couple with different options, and let them choose.


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## DurocShark (Apr 19, 2010)

You do know that friction polish is a very weak pen finish? Wears off quickly? 

Just don't want you to have to refinish 500 pens 3 months later...


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## tab2mn (Apr 19, 2010)

From a business perspective and hte mention of liability in an earlier post -- be prepared if all of the pens are destroyed (Water, fire, kids, accident) or stolen fromm home - ugly scenario but realistic - are you liable for meeting the deadline or $$ -- check on your homeowners or get a small umbrella that includes business loss...   Just my .02.  This may be a friend but he has partners and a business to rum.


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## gmreeves (Apr 19, 2010)

Yep, I know and it has already been stated and he has seen the pen that I have been using for the past 4 months and thinks it is fine.  We'll see what the rest of the say.  I definately would not be doing a CA finish on that many pens.  I could but my price would be going up.


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## DurocShark (Apr 19, 2010)

gmreeves said:


> Yep, I know and it has already been stated and he has seen the pen that I have been using for the past 4 months and thinks it is fine.  We'll see what the rest of the say.  I definately would not be doing a CA finish on that many pens.  I could but my price would be going up.



Ahh, missed the post. Sorry. 

I was thinking more of a spray poly. You could line up bunches at a time and spray them. I have used a board with a bunch of 1/4" dowels sticking up for that. A couple-four coats then a quick buff, shouldn't take much more time than a friction polish.

All good!


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## Texatdurango (Apr 19, 2010)

Since you mentioned how you were going to finish them and include a "cheap" pen sleeve I have a question.

Have you given any thought to return business? I would negotiate with them to allow you to include a business card in case something goes wrong with the pen or someone needs a refill. Then let's say all of these pens wind up in the hands of different people, that's 500 potential customers. Do you want 500 people holding the cheapest, quickest thing you can whip out inside the cheapest sleeve you could find?

If it were me, I would probably look into another finish. Doing a nice simple ca finish per the William Young method, you would only add 5 mintes per pen. You'll spend almost that time rubbing on friction polish that will wear off the first batch of pens before the last batch is delivered.  Or, since you will be doing them in batches, consider dipping them in lacquer since time is on your side.

I wouldn't look at this as how much profit I can squeeze out of each pen or how fast I can make them but how can I provide some nice pens that will get me some future busibess.

Just another way of looking at it!


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## rsmith (Apr 19, 2010)

> Yes. This is someone I know and have been friends with for years. He is part of a company that gives out gifts every year to their clients and he thinks this is definately a better gift than what they have been giving out. I am not counting on this as going through but I wanted to get others input so it will help me make a better decision if the need arises. I am keeping my fingers crossed though so we'll see.


 
:good:Congratulations and good luck then :biggrin:


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## gmreeves (Apr 19, 2010)

I see your point.  I am definately not going to see how cheaply I can make them for profit reasons.  At the price point he is wanting or thinking, I don't have a lot of room to be uping the quality of the finish, hardware, and cases.  We will see what they say.  I know I will have to talk with the group before working out the deal, so I can discuss with them at that time the options available to them and what I will need to charge for each scenario.  

I am really enjoying everybodies replies and I am learning a lot.  Thank you.


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## Smitty37 (Apr 19, 2010)

You have taken on a job of work.
You'll need *sanding materials, finishing materials *and you might want pen sleeves to put them in for protection when they are finished.

You will want some *extra tubes and twist mechanisms*...make sure you test all of the mechanisms before you press them into the pens. Nothing worse than turning a beautiful pen and having it not work after you assemble it.

*A good pen press.*

Be a little particular on what kind of wood you use...some woods turn down a lot quicker than others with less chipping and such too.

If you have a mini lathe you will want at least 2 mandrels...one for turning and sanding and one for finishing...you must apply pressure when finishing that bends mandrels....they last much longer when you are cutting and sanding..

They cost more but you can buy *pre- cut*, *pre-drilled blanks* that are  sized, drilled and squared -- you might want to do that but if you do don't buy laminated.  

Break the job down....turn a bunch blanks...then finish a bunch then spend a few hours assembling pens it'll go much faster and you'll fell like you're getting a break now and then.

A *duplicator and templates if you are doing anything but straight barrels*...not so much for speed as for consistancy..


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## JBCustomPens (Apr 19, 2010)

gmreeves said:


> Wow! I leave for lunch and it is already on page 2. Great advice. I can't even imagine doing 500 slims but am willing to do it if the offer is there. I already have a full time job, deliver pizza's for a second job, and run my own small business making the bamboo fly rods. I would definately stop the pizza delivery if this goes through and I have about 8 months to get them done. I also have the help of my wife, mother, and father, that could help with everything except the turning. I'm sure it will be a chore, but it will really help me with the get out of debt plan. The extra twist mechanism and tubes isn't something I had thought about. *I will most likely be using cocobolo* and a friction polish. Easy to turn and easy to finish. Their would be a single line engraving on each pen and no gift box.  Most likely, I will only use the cheap velvety pen slip.  The guy likes them but has to run it past the other business partners first. I would definately do it in batches and require the deposit to cover the cost up front. Thanks again for all the quick replies.




You should be careful. A lot of people are allergic to cocobolo or can be after turning it. Just a word of warning.


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## Smitty37 (Apr 19, 2010)

gmreeves said:


> Yep, I know and it has already been stated and he has seen the pen that I have been using for the past 4 months and thinks it is fine.  We'll see what the rest of the say.  I definately would not be doing a CA finish on that many pens.  I could but my price would be going up.[/quote
> 
> Over the last 70 odd years or so having been on the receiving end of a multitude of client gifts let me give you a  little info...
> 
> ...


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## chriselle (Apr 19, 2010)

Did you give them the option of Sierra's rather than slimlines?....half the work and a nicer pen.


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## Pioneerpens (Apr 19, 2010)

How are you packaging them? Pen sleeves might be a good way to go, or single pen cases.


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## David Keller (Apr 19, 2010)

I agree with the sierra idea...  Not much more in cost and a lot easier.  More wood left on the tubes means less cracking and blowouts.

This reminds me of a story one of my partners told me.  They were on vacation and his wife saw a beautiful, handmade chair.  The price was $500.  My partner asked the chairmaker how much it would be for a set of 8 chairs.  The chairmaker said it would be $6000 dollars.  My partner was surprised that the total was more than 8 times the price of one chair.  When he asked for an explanation, the chairmaker explained that making one chair was fun, and making eight chair was work...  Work costs more than fun.


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## Robert A. (Apr 19, 2010)

David I love your little story.


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## jttheclockman (Apr 20, 2010)

Have you given them a choice in pens??  The elegant beauty Areo is a real nice very easy pen that won't have a loosening problem. Alot more classy. The cost would probably be a wash because you are doing one blank as opposed to 2. If you are going to choose slimlines  have you chosen what brand. Maybe getting them from Daycom can save alot of money when ordering that many. I am not a fan of slimlines at all though. Engraving on a thin barrel too. Hope and I hope you do not make fat slimlines. Please tell me you aren't thinking that. What plating are you going to use???  I too agree doing a dip poly or even a spray poly would be a better finish that friction polish. 500 pens will consume you for sure. Good luck.


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## DCBluesman (Apr 20, 2010)

I'm not sure what you will need, but I'd need a gun and a bullet...to blow my brains out.  I hope to never be offered a 500 pen order for handmade pens. Good luck!


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## RAdams (Apr 20, 2010)

I think the "Materials" have all been covered. 


Something you might want to think about... Get enough from the deposit to buy ALL of your materials. Order 500 kits, extra tubes and transmissions, glue, paint, barrell trimmers, pen presses, polish, sandpaper, blanks, the works. 

That way you are maximizing your profit margin, protecting your investment of time, and when you deliver the goods, the rest of the money is for you!!!


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## gmreeves (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks for all of the suggestions. I will let you know how all of this turns out.  As of now, the rest of the group liked the idea but thought it was a little early to be discussing Christmas gifts for clients.  I told him that was fine but I wouldn't be able to hand over 500 anything at the drop of a hat.


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## stolicky (Apr 20, 2010)

I would definitely ask about single barrel pens.  It is half the turning, cutting, gluing, squaring, etc.  and is likely a nicer pen in the end.


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## dow (Apr 20, 2010)

stolicky said:


> I would definitely ask about single barrel pens.  It is half the turning, cutting, gluing, squaring, etc.  and is likely a nicer pen in the end.



+1 on this.  I make the elegant beauty aero pens that CSUSA and Laulau sell.  They're great pens, fast to make, will cut your wood cost by half, and look really nice.  Here's a black Ti one I made out of curly Koa, complete with a smudge on the lower barrel :


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## wolftat (Apr 20, 2010)

I did a couple of large orders and have to tell you that an order for 500 is very large, the money may seem good at the beginning but after you do the order, you will never take another one again. When I did the large orders, I had help with them as well, if you are doing it alone it is really going to turn into a full time headache. Good luck with it and be sure you are getting a great price for them, you will have a lot of time to think about it while turning.


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## Bree (Apr 20, 2010)

Get yourself a carbide tipped chisel so you can rough and bring the blank down to just above finished size VERY FAST.  It will also prevent wasted time sharpening.  You will want your final chisel to bring the blank to a high degree of surface smoothness to reduce sanding time.  So I would probably use a good skew to finish with.

Get music down in your shop if you don't have it.  500 pens will be very boring without something to give yourself a lift.

Most important IMHO... PROCESS.  Devise a process to aggregate work.  Test it well before executing it in production.  Try to batch jobs together to reduce setup time.  Cut in batches, drill in batches, turn in batches, finish in batches etc.   And of course remember the old saw... Measure twice, cut once!

Good luck!


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## witz1976 (Apr 20, 2010)

I have no advice...but wish you the best of luck!


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## broitblat (Apr 20, 2010)

I don't know if it's been mentioned, but I'd suggest you have extra bushings, too...

Congratulations (I think) and good luck.

  -Barry


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## chriselle (Apr 20, 2010)

How about a group shot at the end....:biggrin:


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## bitshird (Apr 20, 2010)

I think a Woodchuck might help a lot, particularly doing Cocobolo.


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## mywoodshopca (Apr 21, 2010)

bitshird said:


> I think a Woodchuck might help a lot, particularly doing Cocobolo.


 
I agree!!


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## snyiper (Apr 21, 2010)

+1 on the carbide tool that is a great point. To put this in pespective for slims, if you turn 10 barrels a night for 5 nights (this is a lot of turning) it is 25 pens complete....Just something to think about at 25 pens a week that is 100 a month if you can keep that pace. I doesnt sound like much now but I bet it will by week 2. I figure the extra 2 days a week to finish and assemble that is 0 time for you!!!...Good luck on your endevor.


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