# Minimizing Downtime



## RPM (Dec 19, 2004)

I have spent the afternoon reading all of the threads in the finishing portion of the forum.  One consistent thing that I have noticed (unless I am missing something) is the curing or waiting time between finish application and buffing or next step.  Is it most common to have multiple mandrels, remove barrels from mandrels during cure times and remount later, or some other method to minimize unproductive time in the shop.  It is apparent that many of you are producing a significant number of pens out of your shops.  Could some of you share your tricks for keeping the productivity up during the finishing process?  Any tips or insight would be appreciated.
Richard


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## dougle40 (Dec 19, 2004)

Richard,
Check out my finishind technique at the address below .
I go straight from the turning on the lathe to assembly . No steps in between .

http://www.penturners.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1732


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## Fred in NC (Dec 19, 2004)

Richard, regardless of the method used, I find it very useful to have several mandrels.


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## KKingery (Dec 20, 2004)

I agree - Just starting out, I don't have alot of equipment, but I do use 2 mandrels now, just to help keep things moving along.


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## tipusnr (Dec 20, 2004)

Little by little there are three things that seem to grow in my shop (without a conscious plan) - the number of pen blanks, the number of finishes, and the number of mandrels.  In little over a year I have three pen mandrels - all different - and am constantly looking for good buys on more of them. I'm not a production turner but it seems I always have blanks mounted on at least two the three ready to turn, sand, or finish.

I've even thought about making a holding rack for blanks that have started the process but, for some reason, never became pens (sort of like a thread spool holder) but it is just a thought.


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## PenWorks (Dec 20, 2004)

Tip, there is no such thing as enough tools, pen kits or pen blanks. I have about 2000 blanks, of which 300 are real special. The hardest thing about making a pen, is figuring out which blank I want to use. I store unfinished & finished barrells in those flock trays, you can get 2 dozen for about 24.00, they have covers with them as well. Anthony


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## Fred in NC (Dec 20, 2004)

Bill, I use a piece of 2x4 with holes as a mandrel rack on the edge of my bench.   I have another with 2" headless nails for blanks, but don't use it much anymore because I found cheap chopsticks will hold a pair of barrels each.


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## Carole in VA (Dec 20, 2004)

I am quickly finding that it would very nice to have several mandrels, but since I only have one, I mark the inside of the barrels with a marker for alignment before I start turning...that way I can take them off the mandrell let whatever stage of finish I am in "cure" then put them back on the same way they were on originally. I also have a mark for the orientation of the mandrel in the lathe. Trying to figure out if I can make a mandrel and mount it in my lathe drill chuck.


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## woodwish (Dec 20, 2004)

I also use a rack similar to the chopstick method mentioned above.  I took some scraps of 3/4" ply about 11" x 3" and drilled 1/8" (I think this is the right size) holes 1" apart down the middle.  I glued bamboo shish-kabob skewers in the holes and cut them off to about 4 1/2".  As soon as I drill the blanks I put the two parts together in order on a skewer.  After I glue the tubes I put them back until time to turn.  After i turn, sand, and finish, I put them back to hold whle the finish cures and time to assemble.

I actually have several of these for different styles (1 for Euro parts, 1 Americana, etc.) just to keep the different size tubes separate.  Works for me anyway.


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## Fred in NC (Dec 20, 2004)

Carole, when I started making pens I had a "drill chuck" mandrel from PSI.  That is because I did not have the Jet Mini yet, and the lathe I was using does not have a Morse taper in it.  The PSI mandrels have a 1/4"-20 thread and nut.  Since I bought the Jet I have been using Morse taper mandrels from Woodcraft.

Drill chucks for lathe use usually have a Morse taper.  They will work ok if they run true.  You can easily test by putting a mandrel in the chuck, with the live center about 1/8" from the end of the mandrel.  Rotate the spindle by hand, and you will see whether it runs true.  

Mandrels are a little under 1/4", something like .246 (depending on the manufacturer).  Size "D" drill rod is the same size.  So is "allthread" 1/4" rod from the hardware store.  I have found at Lowe's that they have allthread in a rack, and also in the nuts and bolts drawers, where it is sold in 12" lengths in plastic bags.  The ones in the drawers seem to be better quality, they are straight and much stiffer.  I have used them as mandrels, and they worked ok for me.  What I did was to epoxy a "threaded rod connector" which is like a long nut, near one end, leaving enough rod to go in the chuck.  I used a nylon wing nut on the other end.  

However, since Woodcraft sells replacement rods for $3. and complete mandrels for $10, I no longer use the threaded rod.

Of course, no matter where you get the rod, if you are going to use multiple mandrels you still need more bushings for them.  Since they cost money, and the mandrels include some bushings, I find buying complete mandrels the best way to go.

Hope this helps.


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## Scott (Dec 20, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Carole in VA_
> <br />Trying to figure out if I can make a mandrel and mount it in my lathe drill chuck.



Hi Carole!

Like Fred said, a drill chuck is OK if it runs true.  Many don't.  If you really wanted to invest in a method that would allow you to have many mandrels and hold them precisely, I would get the Beall Collet chuck, and then buy a bunch of the Berea "A" mandrels for their drill-driver holder.  Then I'd CA glue a spare busing to the mandrel as a stop-block that would seat up against the collet.  This would allow you to quick-change the mandrels.

I wish I could say that's the way I do it, but it is the way I've been thinking of doing it!

Scott.


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## Fred in NC (Dec 20, 2004)

Scott:  Precisely, collets are the high precision way to go!  
I have tried them and find no measurable runout.  The more pieces between the mandrel and the spindle, the more chance of runout.  Simple fact of life.  

A shaft collar might be a good alternative to gluing a bushing.


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## DCBluesman (Dec 20, 2004)

With no argument to Scott or Fred, I spoke with JR Beall about the use of his company's collet chuck (I was ready to buy one) versus the morse taper for turning pens.  Without hesitation, he recommended...the morse taper!  Even I was amazed.  You'll read more about this and other fascinating tidbits from JR in the interview for the BASH!


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## Fred in NC (Dec 20, 2004)

Lou, I don't have the Beall collet chuck.

I have tested with a "# 2 Morse collet" that goes directly into the spindle, and uses a drawbar.  There is no measurable runout. It is a pain in the neck to use, so I stick with the Morse taper mandrels.  

Interestingly, the so called "professional mandrels" are nothing but a Morse taper collet with a shaft !!!!


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## DCBluesman (Dec 20, 2004)

Thanks, Fred.  I'm such a novice!  [8D]


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## Fred in NC (Dec 20, 2004)

Novice?  Not in a million years, Lou !!!

The thing is that there are many products in the market to accomplish the same purpose, and we usually don't have one of each to test.  So we go with what works for us.  For me that is the Woodcraft, because I go to the store once in a while.  It runs very close to true if you screw the shaft all the way in.

Lou, in my posts I keep repeating "this is only my opinion" because I don't pretend to be an expert at anything.  I am trying to learn like anybody else.  My opinions are based only on my own personal experience, which is not much.  So please take them with a pound of salt.


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## DCBluesman (Dec 20, 2004)

If I wasn't afraid of offending half the folks here, I'd admit that I probably have gotten more immediately useful information from you than anyone, Fred!  Thanks, as always!


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## penhead (Dec 20, 2004)

I,myself, always enjoy reading Freds posts and find them chock full of good information.

JohnPayton


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## wayneis (Dec 20, 2004)

Even though I use a Beall collet chuck and think that it's a very good tool, I probably wouldn't suggest it because of the high cost.  If you have the extra money and can afford it and you make enough pens and other things to offset the cost then my personal feeling is that it can't be beat.  I like the adjustability it gives, the rod can be slid in and out of the collet so that you only have what you need redusing any whip on turning shorter items.  I have had no concentricity problems sense I started using it and it replaces a drill chuck which I don't like using because it can be a knuckle buster.  So to me I guess it's one of those luxury tools that most can do without unless you are addicted to tools and wood like I am.

Wayne


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## Fred in NC (Dec 20, 2004)

Thank you, Lou, and thank you John for your kind comments.


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## btboone (Dec 21, 2004)

I put my turned pen halves on 1/4" dowel rods and spray them with lacquer while they're on the sticks.  I have pegboard above all of my workbenches, so I just stick them in the 1/4" holes there to dry.  Works great.


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## Gary (Dec 21, 2004)

Wayne...may I ask what mandrels you are using with the Beall Collet Chuck?  I bought the chuck, then when I tried to use it with one set of mandrels I have (Berea A & B)I find they are threaded on both ends and short to say the least. The other Berea set I have came out of the Berea A & B Morse #2 Taper Drivers.  They are so short that you can't fit two blanks with bushings on it and have more than 1/4" to grip in the Beall Collet (YOU HEARING THIS BEREA?[!]) I guess I'm missing something, and assistance would be appreciated.


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## wayneis (Dec 23, 2004)

The black mandrel premium shafts from Berea with the bushing on it are not threaded and the bushing can be knocked off.  Then use a STONE to polish off the dimples that hold the bushing on.  I have about a dozen shafts and don't know where I got most of them, but I think that some of my longer ones come from Wood Craft.

Most of the time I only mount one blank at a time any way so it's not been a big deal to me.  

Wayne


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