# CA Glue vs Epoxy for Gluing Tubes in Blanks and Recommendations



## wfsteadman

I posted earlier about squaring pen blanks and how my tubes have been coming out of my acrylic reverse painted blanks, and someone mentioned it might not be the pen mill but maybe the gluing process.  I have only used Medium CA for gluing tubes in, but interested in how others do it.  I have heard of two part epoxy and wanted to get opinions about it and maybe recommendations on brand of Epoxy and where to buy.  THANKS IN ADVANCE.  

I use a medium CA that I got from woodcraft it is 2P-10 and says professional wood formula so might not be very good for Acrylic Blanks...


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## dachshund1

I use 2-part, 30-minute clear epoxy - and almost always allow the glue to cure overnight.  

This also lets me mix up enough adhesive to do several sets of blanks before it sets up. 

Never had a problem, but I'm a true hobbyist (i.e., not under the production gun).

As always, YMMV.

Terry


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## MillerTurnings

I use Loctite 5 minute epoxy for both acrylic and wood blanks. I clean the brass tubes with acetone and allow to dry thoroughly before assembly.


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## MTViper

I use Barrel Bond a 5 minute open time epoxy sold at Woodcraft and Rockler.  Comes in tubes like toothpaste and mixes easily.  It expands to fill voids between the blank and tube.  I think it's the best product I've used and I've been through most of the others.  I make sure I'm never out of it.  Never had a tube/blank fail since I started using it.


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## magpens

I use Quik-Cure 5 minute epoxy.  Would never use CA for gluing in tubes because the CA can set when you have the tubes halfway in.


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## Sataro

I've never used any epoxy for gluing my brass tubes in. I've always used thick CA & give it 24 hrs to setup. I've also used medium CA without any issues. Several years now doing it this way. No major problems with CA for my part. Still I need to try the epoxy route, I may find I like it better!


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## Monty

Sataro said:


> ...I've always used thick CA & give it 24 hrs to setup.


Same here. Thin CA can set up too quickly and you end up with the tube half in and half out. I've tried 5 minute epoxy but I find it too messy and I tend to waste too much (most likely my methodology).


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## jttheclockman

Hello, that Fast Cap 2P-10 is basically for gluing wood to wood and needs the accelerator to cure it for a strong bond. It is not meant to glue wood to metal or acrylic to metal as with wood and acrylic blanks to the metal tubes.

If you choose to use CA then may I suggest Satellite City Hot stuff which Woodcraft also sells. At least a med or maybe a thick for gluing in tubes. As with all methods of gluing time to cure is needed for good bond. 

I never use CA to glue my tubes in. I prefer an epoxy and my choice can also be bought at  Woodcraft and it is SystemIII T88 epoxy.  Buy System Three T88 Epoxy, 1/2 Pint at Woodcraft.com

I like a long open time so I can do many tubes if I choose and it is proven that the longer open time an epoxy has the stronger it will hold. This is my go to do all epoxy for what we do in pen turning and that includes segmenting metals in blanks. 

One thing that needs to be mentioned especially with wood blanks, is that when drilling you do not want to drill the hole too tight that a tube is hard to push through. It needs room in case the wood expands. We all know that when we press the components into the tubes when we complete a pen that the tubes expand a bit and this is so the parts are held in securely. When the tubes expand they must be able to do so within that blank or you get cracking such as we have seen here many times. Remember the ends of those blanks are turned down very thin on some kits so it does not take much to crack. You can have this happen with acrylic blanks also so be aware of this when drilling the blank. Which leads to the use of a glue that can span that slight gap between the blank and the tube. Thus my choice is epoxy that will stay flexible but is also very strong. These are my thoughts on this subject. Happy turning.


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## ChiTown56

*CA Glue VS Epoxy?*

I have a question? This is related to Acrylic's......I have noticed that after drilling the Blank, there is some "dust or other material left behind" in the BLANK.....These in particular are the ones that I have issues with where at some point the BRASS may come loose and eventually come out.......I always use CA Glue when securing the BRASS. What am I doing wrong? Should I be using EPOXY instead of CA?? OR.........What to get that dusty material out?

maybe I'm posting this in the wrong area, if so would the Mods please move it.


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## jttheclockman

ChiTown56 said:


> I have a question? This is related to Acrylic's......I have noticed that after drilling the Blank, there is some "dust or other material left behind" in the BLANK.....These in particular are the ones that I have issues with where at some point the BRASS may come loose and eventually come out.......I always use CA Glue when securing the BRASS. What am I doing wrong? Should I be using EPOXY instead of CA?? OR.........What to get that dusty material out?
> 
> maybe I'm posting this in the wrong area, if so would the Mods please move it.



Mike, take a piece of sandpaper and roll it so it fits in the drilled blank and rotate it. you could wrap around a small dowel too if you prefer. What this is also good for is getting the drill marks out so when you need to reverse paint the tube they do not show through. It is a good habit to get into.  As mentioned some here use med to thick CA but I prefer epoxy and you can read my post above.

If you still have dust left in, a shot of compressed air will take of that or run a q-tip through with some denatured alcohol. just make sure things are dry before gluing. Moisture of any kind is not a friend to pen turners.


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## BKelley

To clean out the hole before glueing get a bronze rifle cleaning brush.  A few passes with it and the blank will be nice and clean ready for glueing.

Ben


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## TonyW

Like others I've found epoxy too messy so use medium CA. I've found that chilling the blanks and the tubes in the fridge slows the setting time down enough for me to fully seat the tubes. Besides cleaning the insides of the drill holes and keying up the outsides of the tubes, I also make sure that there's no condensation as it can cause a flash set or failed joint however.

TonyW


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## randyrls

Wally;  Check the tube if it comes out.  Does it have glue on it??

Brass tubes come in two flavors,  one is pre-scuffed, the other is smooth.  The smooth tubes need to be scuffed with sand paper, and wiped down with denatured alcohol.  The forming process for brass tubes involves a lubricant that can prevent a good glue bond.

I have a full set of drill bits and use the closest bit that makes a good, close, fitting hole, not necessarily the one suggested in the instructions.  Then I write the bit size on the instructions.


Oh;  I use thick CA and plug the far end of the brass tube.  Drip two or three drops into the hole at one end, coat the tube with CA where the plug is, and insert with a twisting motion.  Check to see if CA comes out the far end all around the tube?  If not apply more next time.


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## wfsteadman

I sand and scuff all the tubes, but will try the denatured alcohol on them.  Thanks 



randyrls said:


> Wally;  Check the tube if it comes out.  Does it have glue on it??
> 
> Brass tubes come in two flavors,  one is pre-scuffed, the other is smooth.  The smooth tubes need to be scuffed with sand paper, and wiped down with denatured alcohol.  The forming process for brass tubes involves a lubricant that can prevent a good glue bond.
> 
> I have a full set of drill bits and use the closest bit that makes a good, close, fitting hole, not necessarily the one suggested in the instructions.  Then I write the bit size on the instructions.
> 
> 
> Oh;  I use thick CA and plug the far end of the brass tube.  Drip two or three drops into the hole at one end, coat the tube with CA where the plug is, and insert with a twisting motion.  Check to see if CA comes out the far end all around the tube?  If not apply more next time.


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## Kenny Durrant

If it's a wood blank I use thick C.A. If it's an acrylic blank I like gorrilla glue. I back paint the blank and I like the way the glue foams and expands. I don't use it on the wooden blanks because I don't like the idea of gettin the wood wet.


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## RustyFN

I do like Randy and sand my tubes. I also use 5 minute epoxy.


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## KenV

One of the high volume pen makers who stops in uses nothing but CA with success.  He cites a problem rate of 1 in 1000.  

All these glues will work.   The differences are style, preferences, and experience.  Clean brass, clean holes, and a deliberate consistent process works.

Wet paint (back painting), old glue, contaminated brass, ect have caused failures.   My biggest failures were attempting to use thin CA.  

I run small batches and tend towards structural epoxy.  Thick CA works, but epoxy cleans up with white vinegar.


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## Dan Masshardt

As has been stated, both work.   

I think epoxy is the best.  It fills gaps very well and i believe it eliminates all of the other clean / prep factors always mentioned with ca problems.  

Clean holes, sand tubes, wipe tubes with acetone.   

All total waste of time when using epoxy in my experience.   

Ca can be quicker but epoxy is the best bond.  

Almost any type will do but I prefer 15 or 30 minute as I glue tubes in batches.  

I use ca only if I need to turn a pen right away.  



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## efrulla

I must be the mis-fit here.  I never have had any luck with epoxy.  I use medium CA exclusively.  Must be my technique with the epoxy but I have given up on the stuff


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## Dan Masshardt

efrulla said:


> I must be the mis-fit here.  I never have had any luck with epoxy.  I use medium CA exclusively.  Must be my technique with the epoxy but I have given up on the stuff





What part of the process gave you trouble?


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## Edgar

As you can see, there are many approaches & all can work well if done properly.

I use medium 2P-10 for both wood & acrylic and I don't scuff or sand my tubes. Works for me.

Things that I pay particular attention to: let the blank cool for 10-15 min before gluing, if reverse painted let it cure 2 days or more, test fit the tube for a proper fit, make sure the hole is clean & dry (several methods given above for that), coat the tube well, let the glue cure at least 24 hrs before squaring & turning.


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## robertkulp

I use medium CA from Mercury Adhesives, both their regular and their Flex CA. Except when I've done something stupid, I've not had any problems with wood or resin.

Lately, I've switched to their regular thick CA since it doesn't drip off the tube when I'm inserting it into he blank.


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## efrulla

Dan:
Invariably the tubes slip within the blank.  Looking at the tube it appears that there is reasonably good coverage.  It is as if there is no bonding which I find hard to believe.


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## Dan Masshardt

efrulla said:


> Dan:
> Invariably the tubes slip within the blank.  Looking at the tube it appears that there is reasonably good coverage.  It is as if there is no bonding which I find hard to believe.





You have the epoxy mixed in equal parts and allow several hours or overnight to cure?


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## efrulla

Dan:  Yup.  That is what puzzles me.


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## jttheclockman

efrulla said:


> Dan:  Yup.  That is what puzzles me.




What is the name of the epoxy and is it a structural epoxy or a coating epoxy. I have said this numerous times on this site, there are many different types of epoxy and not all epoxy is meant for gluing things.


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## MDWine

In a word... Gorilla!
(I put that $4(# on everything!)

Actually, on all pens... wood, acrylic, all of them.  Haven't had a problem yet.


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## csr67

Another vote for Gorilla Glue!  I've used CA and epoxy, but I've never had a blow out since switching to Gorilla glue.  When I glue up several blanks, I dip each blank in water, slather the tube in GG, then insert and wrap the blank in blue tap to prevent any movement during the foam out.  I normally let them sit up overnight, and any residue cleans up very easily with a tube mill or brass brush.  Dollar for dollar, this is a much more economical way to glue tubes.


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## jttheclockman

When you guys use that Gorilla stuff does the Gorilla come a see you???  Too many commercials. You know pl2000 and liquid nails is also a very strong glue and will hold as much if not more that GG Maybe the pen turners should start looking into those glues. Never seen anyone ever mention these glues. :biggrin::biggrin:


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## wouldentu2?

For wood, or acrylic nothing beats thick CA with a properly sized hole.


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## kentonjm

I saw a few votes here for Gorilla glue so I thought I would give it a try as I like the way it expands to fill voids and have found it works well in other applications.

My experience was less than satisfactory. I was doing a batch of 7 pens so thats 14 tube/blank glue ups. All holes were cleanly drilled and tubes scuffed.

I wet the inside of blank holes and smeared plenty of G-Glue on the tubes. In comparison to using CA I found the whole process much more messy which I imagine is similar to using epoxy hence why I have not tried that before. 

The blanks were left overnight and this morning I began to true up the ends. On 2 of the 14 (interestingly it was 2 halves of the same blank) the tube separated from the blank while trimming.

I am sure there could have been something stupid I did but for the life of me I can see what. I think I am going back to CA. I have had a few blow outs with CA glued blanks but I put that down to poor skew technique on my part and probably not enough glue.

I have heard how a few of you cap the tube first and then put CA in the end of the blank before insertion. Could you please elaborate on how you plug the tube and prevent the plug from getting glued.

Thanks


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## mecompco

kentonjm said:


> I have heard how a few of you cap the tube first and then put CA in the end of the blank before insertion. Could you please elaborate on how you plug the tube and prevent the plug from getting glued.
> Thanks



I use dental base wax--available on eBay for cheap--I got a pound that is probably a lifetime supply. It is thin, so I just punch the tubes into it and it seals pretty well. I wipe any wax off the outside of the tube. Even if you do get glue on it, it comes out easily with an x-acto knife. You may still get a little glue around the rim of the tube. Usually a brass brush will remove it--if not, (and this is a step I often do anyway, if I think a tube is going to be tight) I wrap some 220 or 320 paper around a punch and chuck it in my hand drill. It quickly cleans up the inside of the tube and relieves the fit a big.

Regards,
Michael


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## jttheclockman

I use Playdough. Has been around for a long time and still is in use by kids today. You buy the 3 tub and have plenty. Just keep lid on and return what is not used so no waste. Roll a piece out and flatten to about 1/4: thick. Stick end of tube in one side and then the other side. When you do the second side do it on a slight angle to let the air out of the tube or it will have a tendency to push the first side out. Not a big deal, always can just push back in. When done just push old out and use a exacto knife to get out any residue. Works very well.


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## Cmiles1985

Plus one for epoxy and Play-Doh. Every once in a while, I'll grab the CA if I need to hurry, or I'm only making one pen. I get plenty of junk mail, so I mix my epoxy with craft sticks on Bed Bath & Beyond coupons or Woodcraft catalog cover pages. Post-It notes also work well. I plug one end of the tube with Play-Doh (no scuffing or cleaning of the tube), mix my "equal" parts of epoxy (I'm still working through my first 8 oz. set of Stick Fast from 2+ years ago), slather about half a pea sized glob on my craft stick, and I coat the inside of the hole (from both ends). Then I wipe a little bit on the plugged end of the tube and insert the tube while twisting. I try to get the tube nearly flush at the trailing end (end with no Play-Doh). Then they cure overnight. There's always Play-Doh adhered in the end of the blank, but it punches right out when the blank goes on my squaring jig.


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## Dan Masshardt

I'm epoxy too.   I've never once plugged my tubes.  I never get any in the tubes so for me it would be a totally wasted step. 


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## Dan Masshardt

Cmiles1985 said:


> Plus one for epoxy and Play-Doh. Every once in a while, I'll grab the CA if I need to hurry, or I'm only making one pen. I get plenty of junk mail, so I mix my epoxy with craft sticks on Bed Bath & Beyond coupons or Woodcraft catalog cover pages. Post-It notes also work well. I plug one end of the tube with Play-Doh (no scuffing or cleaning of the tube), mix my "equal" parts of epoxy (I'm still working through my first 8 oz. set of Stick Fast from 2+ years ago), slather about half a pea sized glob on my craft stick, and I coat the inside of the hole (from both ends). Then I wipe a little bit on the plugged end of the tube and insert the tube while twisting. I try to get the tube nearly flush at the trailing end (end with no Play-Doh). Then they cure overnight. There's always Play-Doh adhered in the end of the blank, but it punches right out when the blank goes on my squaring jig.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Penturners.org mobile app





Plus one on the bed bath and beyond mailer.  Lol.  That's funny. 


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## jttheclockman

Dan Masshardt said:


> I'm epoxy too.   I've never once plugged my tubes.  I never get any in the tubes so for me it would be a totally wasted step.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Penturners.org mobile app




How in the world do you not get epoxy in the tube???   You are the man. Good job.


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## Dan Masshardt

jttheclockman said:


> Dan Masshardt said:
> 
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> I'm epoxy too.   I've never once plugged my tubes.  I never get any in the tubes so for me it would be a totally wasted step.
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> Sent from my iPhone using Penturners.org mobile app
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> 
> How in the world do you not get epoxy in the tube???   You are the man. Good job.
Click to expand...




Lol.  Maybe I'm just lucky.  I'm sure it's not skill.  

When I spread epoxy on half the tube and insert in the one side it can't get epoxy in the tube really cause it's all spreading back onto the tube.  

And because there's not  big glob in the blank but a thin spread on the wall when I insert from the other side none gets in.   

That's all I can think of...


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## jttheclockman

Dan Masshardt said:


> jttheclockman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dan Masshardt said:
> 
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> 
> I'm epoxy too.   I've never once plugged my tubes.  I never get any in the tubes so for me it would be a totally wasted step.
> 
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> Sent from my iPhone using Penturners.org mobile app
> 
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> How in the world do you not get epoxy in the tube???   You are the man. Good job.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lol.  Maybe I'm just lucky.  I'm sure it's not skill.
> 
> When I spread epoxy on half the tube and insert in the one side it can't get epoxy in the tube really cause it's all spreading back onto the tube.
> 
> And because there's not  big glob in the blank but a thin spread on the wall when I insert from the other side none gets in.
> 
> That's all I can think of...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Penturners.org mobile app
Click to expand...



Yes it is a matter of procedure. I like to coat both the tube and the inside of the blank ensuring there is total coverage. For me it is not that big of a job to do it this way. Many ways to make a pen as they say.


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## DJBPenmaker

I'm relatively new to pen making but even so I've never had a tube fail using medium CA even turning the blank as little as 10 minutes after gluing. I never use a barrel trimmer though.


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## k3usr

+1 for Gorilla Glue.  the little bit that gets in the end of the tube sometimes I remove with a few strokes of a small round file.


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## Bikerdad

kentonjm said:


> The blanks were left overnight and this morning I began to true up the ends. On 2 of the 14 (interestingly it was 2 halves of the same blank) the tube separated from the blank while trimming.
> 
> I am sure there could have been something stupid I did but for the life of me I can see what. I think I am going back to CA. I have had a few blow outs with CA glued blanks but I put that down to poor skew technique on my part and probably not enough glue.



You live in Phoenix.  And, as your sig says, "it's a dry heat."  I've used Gorilla Glue without any problems on about a dozen pens.  I scuff the tubes, wipe 'em down with alcohol.  I run a *wet* Q-Tip through the blank, making sure that the entire inside of the blank is moistened.  This also serves to get any residual dust out of the blank.  I use another Q-Tip to smear Gorilla Glue inside, then slip the tube in.  (The tube does have plugs in both ends.)  Set the whole thing down on wax paper (foam out can get messy) and move onto the next one.  If you're concerned about tube movement (it can happen), just put painter's tape over the ends of the blank.  Like you, I live in the land of dry, which is why I moisten the inside of the blank.  IF you don't, then there may not be enough moisture for the Gorilla Glue to cure properly.

It IS messier than CA, but no problems with sticking your own fingers together, no problems with getting the mix ratio right like Epoxy needs, no problems with CA sensitivity.


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## schapekop0701

Done the first dozen with CA glue.(bison)
2 of them gone wrong.After curing fr 2 hours.
Now i'm using epoxy and let cure for at least 12 hours.


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## jttheclockman

schapekop0701 said:


> Done the first dozen with CA glue.(bison)
> 2 of them gone wrong.After curing fr 2 hours.
> Now i'm using epoxy and let cure for at least 12 hours.



Peter welcome to the site. As you are experiencing there are learning curves to what we do. The options and methods used by others are just suggestions because what may work for them may not for you. So you continue to try different things till you settle on something that is nearly full proof and then soon you will be adding your findings to the list when this question comes up again and it will. Good luck and happy turning.


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## howsitwork

Well having read it all so far....

I use 24hr araldite epoxy ( structural adhesive). This stays fluid for about 2 hours working time and I do a batch of tubes. I do scuff up the tubes with sand paper first then wipe with Cellulose thinners on tissue, get grease off and smells nice ( am I allowed to say that with HSE?). I use Blu tac to bung the tubes before inserting ( not sure what's that's called over the pond). You can then push out set epoxy and use a counter bore to square up the ends. I leave to set in a warm place overnight and clean up next day. I like the way the epoxy fills any slight gaps . Also having once taken a split blank apart with heat The epoxy gave a really good even coating. I should mention always revolve when inserting to get a good spread and remove air. I also use a Mcdonalds coffee stirrer (other brands are available also free!) to apply glue into the blank and let it soak in for a minute or so before inserting the tubes ( hence need to plug tube ends or it takes ages to clean up!). Dental probes are great for removing chunks of hard epoxy in the blank ( if that's a issue anytime )

Have tried CA but once had a tube stick to the blank, then to me! Lots of cursing +acetone and a rethink later moved to epoxy.

For Lignum Vitea I swab the hole with cellulose first as, ( even though the wood was 50years old from a bowling ball) it was full of oil and a challenge to drill. Only time I have ever had to ream the hole with a larger drill to get the tube to slide in ! No finish needed as it burnishes up to semi gloss with a cotton rag after sanding through the grades.

Bit early but Happy New Year one and all !

Ian


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## Two Hair

30 minute epoxy and play dough


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## Woodchipper

Interesting as my reply will bring it to the top.  Here's my take on CA and epoxy adhesives.  I might mention that I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express once.
I built custom fishing rods for eight years.  I used Two Ton epoxy to glue reel seats and grips to the rod blank; 30 minute set up.  I used a five minute epoxy at first and almost didn't get the grip on in time.  A lot lot of rod builders didn't care for Gorilla glue as it expanded and called for a major clean up.  However, it struck me that in pen making, the expansion would be of benefit to fill in gaps between the tube and the blank.  I use Titebond Thick CA for inserting tubes at this time.  Don't like to mix epoxy.  Takes too long and CA is ready to go in minutes.  I do let a fresh glued tube/blank sit for several minutes before turning.
BTW,  I have learned a lot from being on the forum for just a few days.  Thanks.


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## tonylumps

jttheclockman said:


> When you guys use that Gorilla stuff does the Gorilla come a see you???  Too many commercials. You know pl2000 and liquid nails is also a very strong glue and will hold as much if not more that GG Maybe the pen turners should start looking into those glues. Never seen anyone ever mention these glues. :biggrin::biggrin:



I have been a carpenter for 20 years. Mostly commercial work.Half of the interior of high rise buildings in Philadelphia are held together with PL 2000.


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## jttheclockman

tonylumps said:


> jttheclockman said:
> 
> 
> 
> When you guys use that Gorilla stuff does the Gorilla come a see you???  Too many commercials. You know pl2000 and liquid nails is also a very strong glue and will hold as much if not more that GG Maybe the pen turners should start looking into those glues. Never seen anyone ever mention these glues. :biggrin::biggrin:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have been a carpenter for 20 years. Mostly commercial work.Half of the interior of high rise buildings in Philadelphia are held together with PL 2000.
Click to expand...




:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:That is some strong stuff. It is holding the backboard of my service panel up. No nails just the glue. been there for over 35 years now:biggrin:


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## nativewooder

Ask 100 penturners, get 100 different opinions!:biggrin:


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## jttheclockman

nativewooder said:


> Ask 100 penturners, get 100 different opinions!:biggrin:


 Maybe even 200 different answers because people flip flop.:biggrin::biggrin:


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