# PSI - less than ideal situation (rant)



## dustmaker (Dec 10, 2009)

Here's the scenario.  I have a colleague who is leaving for the UK today.  He custom ordered a pen as a prezzie for his brother.  I had the blank but not the kit and placed an order with PSI last Tuesday, 12/1.  I got an instant order confirmation and later that day a notice that my credit card had been charged for the full amount.  So now I am thinking, cool, this may even arrive by the weekend no problem.  Friday 12/4 I get the shipping confirmation.  Ok, I am a little confused as to why I was charged on Tuesday for items that ship on Friday, but no biggie, Priority Mail should have it at my door by early next week and I already have the blank turned and finished.  If push comes to shove I will eat the shipping charges to the UK.  I can still make my customer happy.  Well, no fault of PSI, but the USPS sent the package from Philly to NJ, back to PA for a couple of days and finally ended up at my home yesterday afternoon.  Yay, I am thinking, just in the nick of time!  No so.  I received everything in my order except the kit I needed.  Poo, wtf, and other explicatives flowed.  The kit I needed is apparently back ordered.  So I went back through all the emails and not once in any communication is there any indication that the full order could not be fulfilled.  Only the paper invoice I received at delivery indicates thus.  And they charged my credit card for the full amount over a week ago.  If I had known in advance the item was out of stock I would have had time to look elsewhere or discuss alternatives with the customer, but I didn't get that option.  The web site did not show the item out of stock at the time of the order (it does today, but that isn't helpful).  The order confirmation I received states, "your credit card is NOT charged until we process your order" (emphasis theirs).  I don't know what "process your order" means but wouldn't you think a stock check would be minimally in order?
Sorry for the rant, but I would just like to know...is this typical with PSI?  I've used other suppliers and I get much better service and order status than this.  I don't like to say never again, but I will much more cautious when and if I order from this outfit again.  As of this moment, I don't even have a clue when to expect the rest of the shipment.
There is a somewhat happy ending to the story.  I brought my press and other kits with me to work and my friend decided to go with another plating, but geez, I feel dirty asking him to compromise.  
The urgency and short timeline is probably what is driving my emotions, but I am irked that I got charged for items I didn't receive with no indication of when to expect them.  I will make a call and try to get an answer.  I sure hope they don't charge me another $7.50 minimum shipping fee (which is bogus as well, btw).  OK, done now.  If you've bothered reading to here, thanks for listening.  Please let me hear your experiences and settle me down if you think you can .


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## rjwolfe3 (Dec 10, 2009)

That has happened to me as well but thankfully I wasn't too pressed for the stuff. The communication part did bug me. I order most of my PSI stuff through WoodNWhimsies now, they have better prices and ship quicker. Sorry that happened to you.


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## bobleibo (Dec 10, 2009)

Ditto on the poor communication from PSI........good stuff, very poor customer service follow-up. I've learned not to order from them if there was any need for urgency.


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## maxwell_smart007 (Dec 10, 2009)

That certainly doesn't sound good, Frank, and it's not in line with the service I received from them in the past.  I've emailed them to ask about this - I'll let you know if I get a response or not. 

In the meantime, Woodnwhimsies and Woodturningz both carry PSI kits - have you thought about ordering from either of them next time you're in a time-crunch?  Their prices are generally a bit lower, as they both pass on a large-quantity discount to their buyers.  Being small entities, it's likely that you'll find that they can ship out a bit quicker, as well.  

Andrew


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## Daniel (Dec 10, 2009)

I will say that in the last couple of weeks it seems USPS has gone into a tail spin or something. packages taking a long time to be delivered and getting sent anywhere but where they are supposed to go. Don't know if they made a change or it is just the volume at this time of year. But I have seen several cases that look to me like the train completely left the track all of a sudden.

As for PSI, well leave it with don't get me started. I have just come to the point that I see them as the thrift store for penturning.


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## dustmaker (Dec 10, 2009)

PSI: I agree, I have had zero issues with quality stuff from them, and up til now, no real problems with service.  But once burned twice shy as they say.  Thanks for the tips regarding other suppliers.  I will consider these in the future.

USPS:  yeah, Daniel, I dunno.  I have actually seen commercials for Priority Mail and I don't remember those in the past.  Maybe they are just overextended due to advertising and the rise of cyber shopping?


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## Monty (Dec 10, 2009)

This is why I call and order from WoodTurningz and not PSI. I've always had GREAT CS from WoodTurningz (no affiliation with them, just a satisfied customer).


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## dustmaker (Dec 10, 2009)

Since the time criticality is no longer an issue I decided to email instead of phone.  I asked when to expect the rest of my order and expressed concern over the paper invoice being the only means of communicating partial shipments, especially when I have been charged for the full shipment.  We'll see what the response is.  
I should probably just get over it, it wasn't a lot of money.  But like the thread subject says, less than ideal.


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## Russianwolf (Dec 10, 2009)

only problem is I don't think they let the resellers have the top of the line pens (Majestic and Scepter). So if those are what you're after, you're stuck.


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## wolftat (Dec 10, 2009)

You should let us know what the kit is, someone may have one sitting that they can send you until you receive yours and then send them a replacement.


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## dustmaker (Dec 10, 2009)

wolftat said:


> You should let us know what the kit is, someone may have one sitting that they can send you until you receive yours and then send them a replacement.



I appreciate the thought and I know folks here who would bend over backwards to help, but the issue is less about having the kit as it was not knowing until it was too late.  My wife says I tend to be intolerant of incompetence and I think she is right.:tongue:

I am not in any hurry now for the kit anyway, so no need to pursue that avenue, but I will consider it in the future.


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## el_d (Dec 10, 2009)

*PSI*

:bad::bad: I am having problems with PSI too!!!. 

 I placed an order early tuesday Morning and recieved the automated response confirming the order. I didnt really look at it too closely till later that same day. I noticed that the boxes I ordered were the wrong ones so I gave them a call to fix this.
 I talked to a very rude lady on the phone that said they were not going to help me because they had thousands of orders and they couldnt go out to try to "find" mine?
  The order had'nt even been filled yet and they couldnt help me? She said I would have to wait till I recieve the order, then get a return slip from them to ship it back. After hearing that she wasnt going to help I asked to cancel the order. She stumbled around looking for words till finally saying that I would have to wait because it was already in the system and I would have to wait till it ships, then I could refuse the order or return what was wrong with the order.
 I went to my email and replied to the automated response with CANCEL ORDER, got a reply the following day stating that the shipment had already gone out and they were too late to catch the shipment. Just refuse shipment and they were sorry about any inconvinience.
 I need to look at what the restocking fee would be because Im thinking of refusing the shipment. I may get burned there too

 I really dont like to order from PSI because I usually get from the other suppliers. I figuered its only leatherette boxes, What could go wrong?

 PSI? Nope! No way!   :bad::bad:


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## dustmaker (Dec 10, 2009)

Sorry to hear that, "refused to help me" ...whatever happened to "the customer is always right"?  I have to admit, you "one-upped" me...I still have hope that they will make right on my order, it's just tainted with lousy service, but in your case, that is just WRONG!:at-wits-end:


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## jleiwig (Dec 10, 2009)

Sounds like a Christmas rush problem because I've never heard nor myself had any problems with PSI at all.


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## bobleibo (Dec 10, 2009)

jleiwig said:


> Sounds like a Christmas rush problem because I've never heard nor myself had any problems with PSI at all.



I would agree with you....................if Christmas started back in July. The seasons changed but the service didn't in my experience. 
Cheers


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## el_d (Dec 10, 2009)

Thanks Frank, I didnt mean to one up you, just wanted to let you know that you were'nt alone.

 I had'nt had any problems with PSI before But I do now!!!! 

Whether they're busy or not isnt that what customer service is?


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## Robert A. (Dec 10, 2009)

Man that SUCKS!I've bought from them in the past with no problems.Had a pen mandrel that wouldn't stay together.I called and explained,thought they would just send the shaft.But to my surprise they sent the Whole thing.Now I've got 2 mandrels.Works for me.But with what I've read here I'll stick with www.woodturningz.com.


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## Randy_ (Dec 10, 2009)

A major PSI reseller who shall remain nameless for the purpose of this comment also has a very poor rep for communication.  Maybe it is a contagious characteristic.
 
Were it me, two things would happen...actually three.  First I would locate the BBB website for PA and file a complaint.  Next, I would contact the Attorney General of the state.  In many states, it is illegal to charge a credit card for items on back order.  And finally, I would contest the charge with your credit card company.  I don't know if they can separate out portions of a contested bill; but I sure would check it out.  Then reorder the stuff you need from one of the other mentioned PSI resellers who will talk to you.


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## Mr Rules (Dec 10, 2009)

I to have had some problems with deliveries from PSI and their use of SmartPost with FedX.  If you haven't had this experience yet the package is picked up by FedX transported to your home area and delivered to your local post office for them to deliver to you.  The last package I received by this method arrived in Dallas, about 75 miles from me, on a Tuesday, was received at my local post office on Friday and finally delivered to me on the next Tuesday.  Needless to say I have instructed all of the companies I order from to send my package by UPS or FedX Ground.  I don't mind paying a little more for the better service and tracking ability.

The other part of your problem that concerns me is the charging your CC before shipping, giving them the float on your money, and charging you for an item that is backordered.  I don't do business with companies that operate in this fashion and I would simply dispute the entire charge with my CC company, since they have charged me for something they didn't deliver, and then let them deal with getting paid for the part of the order they did send.  This only happens once since they get taken off my vendor list immediately.

Stu


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## Rmartin (Dec 10, 2009)

I've been buying from PSI for 4 years and have never had a problem.

I don't mean to be rude, but frank. As I see it, you are complaining about PSI selling you an item they didn't have, at the same time you sold an item you didn't have.

Again, I don't mean to be harsh. It's difficult to get a point across on a computer sometimes. Depending on 'on time delivery' can get you into trouble. Consider it a learning experiance.


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## dustmaker (Dec 11, 2009)

Rmartin said:


> I've been buying from PSI for 4 years and have never had a problem.
> 
> I don't mean to be rude, but frank. As I see it, you are complaining about PSI selling you an item they didn't have, at the same time you sold an item you didn't have.
> 
> Again, I don't mean to be harsh. It's difficult to get a point across on a computer sometimes. Depending on 'on time delivery' can get you into trouble. Consider it a learning experiance.



No offense taken, but there is a key difference here.  I didn't receive payment until the service was rendered and the product delivered.  I hope you can appreciate that very important distinction.


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## Rmartin (Dec 11, 2009)

dustmaker said:


> No offense taken, but there is a key difference here. I didn't receive payment until the service was rendered and the product delivered. I hope you can appreciate that very important distinction.


 
I'm glad you weren't offended. I do see the difference, and do have sympathy for your position. Back orders can happen to any business, but on top of that to get rude customer service really sucks to the point I would probably post about it too.


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## psilevy (Dec 11, 2009)

Dear Frank,

Due to a huge holiday volume we process hundreds of orders a day this time of year.  While nearly all orders are processed on time with no problems, sometimes an order falls through the cracks when the order is placed at the time an item is running out of stock.  Unfortunately your order was one of them.  I apologize for our CSR team not notifying you about the problem with your order - however my intention is to make it right.  Call Kathy, our customer service manager and advise her of the item that was backordered - I will try to have her locate the item for you to get it before XMAS or issue you a credit if it is not available. You (or any customers) are not charged for shilpping backorders (leftover from a previous order).

I make every effort to offer a robust selection of items with plenty of inventory to handle orders from our pen turning friends at all times and especially during holiday periods and i'm sincerely sorry that these efforts did not work out for you this year.

Feel free contact me directly to assist you if you are not satisfied with our products, CSR technical staff or order processing.

Sincerely,
Ed Levy
VP and GM
ed@pennstateind.com
Penn State Industries


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## ed4copies (Dec 11, 2009)

Hey Ed,

I have to ask.

Your profile says "owner" of Penn State, which I have always believed to be the case.  Why is your title Vice-president??

Not meant to be offensive, it truly strikes me as odd.


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## Jgrden (Dec 11, 2009)

Ed can be owner, General Manger and Vice President. His corporate structure is up to him upon his attorney's advice and his own will.


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## ed4copies (Dec 11, 2009)

I realize he CAN, just wonder what the advantage is.

I may change one of my titles!!!

I already modified "head custodian", cause people kept asking me to clean "the head" and I don't like doing potties.

Maybe I'll change "president" next.


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## dustmaker (Dec 12, 2009)

psilevy said:


> Dear Frank,
> 
> Due to a huge holiday volume we process hundreds of orders a day this time of year.  While nearly all orders are processed on time with no problems, sometimes an order falls through the cracks when the order is placed at the time an item is running out of stock.  Unfortunately your order was one of them.  I apologize for our CSR team not notifying you about the problem with your order - however my intention is to make it right.  Call Kathy, our customer service manager and advise her of the item that was backordered - I will try to have her locate the item for you to get it before XMAS or issue you a credit if it is not available. You (or any customers) are not charged for shilpping backorders (leftover from a previous order).
> 
> ...



I appreciate your response.  I have yet to have an issue with any of your products...everything that I have purchased has been top shelf.  It is the customer service/ordering process that has me a bit wobbly right now.  However, since you have come out in public and expressed a desire to make it right, I will respect that and follow up with your customer service manager and see if we can't work this out.  
I take it from your post that it is not the norm to charge for back ordered items?  If you could confirm/clarify that for me (and others here) I think it would help restore confidence in your ordering process.  Thanks.


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## ablair (Dec 12, 2009)

always better then steebar!


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## bobleibo (Dec 12, 2009)

psilevy said:


> Dear Frank,
> 
> Due to a huge holiday volume we process hundreds of orders a day this time of year.  While nearly all orders are processed on time with no problems, sometimes an order falls through the cracks when the order is placed at the time an item is running out of stock.  Unfortunately your order was one of them.  I apologize for our CSR team not notifying you about the problem with your order - however my intention is to make it right.  Call Kathy, our customer service manager and advise her of the item that was backordered - I will try to have her locate the item for you to get it before XMAS or issue you a credit if it is not available. You (or any customers) are not charged for shilpping backorders (leftover from a previous order).
> 
> ...




Ed
For what it's worth, I was one of the folks with less-than-wonderful comments about PSI service. Any guy - regardless if he is the owner or janitor - who would get on a public forum, post his personal contact info and offer to make things right certainly earns my respect. Perhaps I'll give it another go.....
"The sign of a good company is what they do when things go well. The sign of a great company is what they do when things go wrong"....author unknown

Cheers...
Bob


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## dustmaker (Dec 12, 2009)

bobleibo said:


> Ed
> For what it's worth, I was one of the folks with less-than-wonderful comments about PSI service. Any guy - regardless if he is the owner or janitor - who would get on a public forum, post his personal contact info and offer to make things right certainly earns my respect. Perhaps I'll give it another go.....
> "The sign of a good company is what they do when things go well. The sign of a great company is what they do when things go wrong"....author unknown
> 
> ...



+1 on that.  The response here exceeded my expectations as well.


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## Jgrden (Dec 12, 2009)

ed4copies said:


> i realize he can, just wonder what the advantage is.
> 
> I may change one of my titles!!!
> 
> ...


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## penmanship (Dec 12, 2009)

Monty said:


> This is why I call and order from WoodTurningz and not PSI. I've always had GREAT CS from WoodTurningz (no affiliation with them, just a satisfied customer).


 
I'll second that sentiment................Ryan, Fritz & gang have always been great to deal with


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## KD5NRH (Dec 15, 2009)

Mr Rules said:


> I to have had some problems with deliveries from PSI and their use of SmartPost with FedX.  If you haven't had this experience yet the package is picked up by FedX transported to your home area and delivered to your local post office for them to deliver to you.  The last package I received by this method arrived in Dallas, about 75 miles from me, on a Tuesday, was received at my local post office on Friday and finally delivered to me on the next Tuesday.



You should try that "service" with some other companies: I've had packages from the same vendor (two hours' drive away - if I'd known I would've had them hold it there for pickup) sent on consecutive days via "Smart"Post.  The second one sent was here in five days, the first a week later, and either item would have fit in the $4.99 USPS flat rate box.  They still can't seem to explain just what's so smart about it.

OTOH, I'm starting to wonder if the take-your-money folks at PSI SmartPost the orders to the send-you-your-stuff folks.  The delay between charging the card and actually getting "ready to ship" items shipped seems a bit long for my taste, but about right for SmartPost to get to the other end of a building.


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## TellicoTurning (Dec 15, 2009)

KD5NRH said:


> You should try that "service" with some other companies: I've had packages from the same vendor (two hours' drive away - if I'd known I would've had them hold it there for pickup) sent on consecutive days via "Smart"Post.  The second one sent was here in five days, the first a week later, and either item would have fit in the $4.99 USPS flat rate box.  They still can't seem to explain just what's so smart about it.
> 
> OTOH, I'm starting to wonder if the take-your-money folks at PSI SmartPost the orders to the send-you-your-stuff folks.  The delay between charging the card and actually getting "ready to ship" items shipped seems a bit long for my taste, but about right for SmartPost to get to the other end of a building.



I'm not sure if everyone knows how the Fedex system works... their policy is that all packages go from origin point to the hub point which used to be in Memphis... and think it still is... then back to delivery point...  Even if it to be delivered across the street.    In the hub, these items go through a conveyor system where they are electronically sorted - mechanically - then back to the loaded into the containers to go back to destination... it's an efficient system, but being that it is mechanical, I'm sure it can have flaws.. Fedex doesn't fly on the weekends, so most likely two packages that are released for shipment on two separate days, say a Thur & Friday or a Fri and Sat could be shipped together and the later one shipped would be loaded last..thus first out of the container at the hub... it's not a perfect system and the transfers between carriers adds 2 new elements of a chance for error..... when I was shipping overseas, I calculated every carrier change as a doubling of a chance for something to go wrong.

I've worked with PSI since I started turning a number of years ago, and I can't remember any incident of a problem... I rarely get into a time crunch like the Opening Thread.. so it has never been an element with me.


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## jleiwig (Dec 15, 2009)

Just to add another note to this thread, I sent an email to PSI this morning inquiring about a racheting handle that I stupidly broke the other day on my new to me lathe.  That was probably around 10 am this morning, and I just received a call back from a guy at PSI with the cost info and how to order the handle.  

Now that is pretty darn good customer service, but I will note that I have not ordered it yet, so they don't have my money.  Once they have my money, I'm not sure they would be so quick to respond.  Who Knows?


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## dustmaker (Dec 15, 2009)

TellicoTurning said:


> I rarely get into a time crunch like the Opening Thread.. so it has never been an element with me.



Just to be clear, the urgency of the matter did add an air of excitement and may have fueled my emotions, but that was not the basis of the issue I was inquiring into.  The issues were 1) Communicating backorder status via the delivered package, and 2) Being charged in advance for backordered items.  Mr. Levy's post placated me on both counts.  The purpose of this thread was to understand whether this was an anomaly or a business practice.  It appears to be an anomaly due to the holiday crunch and I can accept that.  It was not a large order; I have made mistakes in the shop that have cost more :tongue:.


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## TellicoTurning (Dec 15, 2009)

dustmaker said:


> Just to be clear, the urgency of the matter did add an air of excitement and may have fueled my emotions, but that was not the basis of the issue I was inquiring into.  The issues were 1) Communicating backorder status via the delivered package, and 2) Being charged in advance for backordered items.  Mr. Levy's post placated me on both counts.  The purpose of this thread was to understand whether this was an anomaly or a business practice.  It appears to be an anomaly due to the holiday crunch and I can accept that.  It was not a large order; I have made mistakes in the shop that have cost more :tongue:.



Yeah, I didn't address that before I hit post and didn't want to go back and edit - again.... I agree that communications wasn't best and they shouldn't have charged your card... probably, at the time their inventory control system indicated they had the kit in stock and someone didn't go back an correct the paperwork.. that wasn't good CS... But from Ed's post, he'll address the issue with customer service... either way, hope this becomes a non-issue for you soon.


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## tim self (Dec 15, 2009)

OK, off the PSI wagon.  They aren't the only vendors out there. Go to the not so close WC store, 140 miles.  Need pen boxes but they're sold out.  OK, that stinks but order some for me.  Am told they'll ship Friday.  I ASSUME, (I know)  they'll ship from warehouse to me.  Wrong.  They're ordered into the store the NEXT Friday.  I found this out last Friday when I call the store.  3 hours later the store calls me telling me they're ready for pickup.  and am waiting for them for an order.  When I was told about the week delay, I told the asst. manager I could have ordered them from the website but decided to give them the sale.  Making this order a real squeaker for Christmas delivery.


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## rjwolfe3 (Dec 15, 2009)

> It appears to be an anomaly due to the holiday crunch and I can accept that.



I've had similar situations happen to me on three different occasions. Items were out of stock, no notification but credit card was charged. I just assumed that this was normal and went along with it. Eventually the backordered stuff showed up but I did have to call on a few things that they forgot to send. PSI is one of my main suppliers so don't think I am bashing them. I just notate this in my file that this is how they operate and then there are no surprises. I still order from them as much as anyone else.


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