# Slimline issues.



## jonrms (Dec 5, 2010)

I bought the slimeline close out kit from Smitty and have run into a problem. I am hopeing that someone else might be able to help. I dont want to turn more until this can be resolved. 

The bushings for the kit are the same as any other slimline. HOWEVER the centre band is much larger.. I have placed it and the bushing up to the micrometer and there is rather a large differance. I tried differant bushings all NEW!!! and they dont match up..

However they do match up with all the other slimline bands including the "special" ones. 

Has anyone a cure or solution for this.. I was only able to turn it by taking a centre band out of another kit and using it as a bushing!


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## PenMan1 (Dec 5, 2010)

Sounds like you got a comfort slimline set. You mentioned having a micrometer. Set the micrometer to the size of the centerband and turn the center (top and bottom tubes) to the micrometer size.

As you turn more pens you'll start using the micrometer at all hardware joints. This will give a more precise fit than relying on bushings that may or may not be sized correctly.

Respectfully submitted.


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## its_virgil (Dec 5, 2010)

Heed Andy's advice. Many of us do not rely on the bushings for correct diameters. We use calipers or other measuring devices and measure each pen part on each pen and turn the ends of the blank to match. Bushings are for reference only...go get us close to the final dimension.
Do a good turn daily!
Don




PenMan1 said:


> Sounds like you got a comfort slimline set. You mentioned having a micrometer. Set the micrometer to the size of the centerband and turn the center (top and bottom tubes) to the micrometer size.
> 
> As you turn more pens you'll start using the micrometer at all hardware joints. This will give a more precise fit than relying on bushings that may or may not be sized correctly.
> 
> Respectfully submitted.


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## jonrms (Dec 5, 2010)

well I got the bushings with the kit from http://www.smittyspenworks.com/servlet/the-376/40-Fancy-Slimline-Pen/Detail

I have never run into this issue before with any other kits... sedona, havana, sierra or other slimlines in gold.... but this is the first kit that the centre band does not match up with any of the bushings... and I cant find any bushings that work... there is a noticable gap!!! I even asked a friend today who was turning with me and is FAR more experianced in this to have a go.. hence us using the micrometer to check... I appreciate a few of you not using the bushings as the main bit.. but no other kit that I used has ever been this far out!!!


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## jonrms (Dec 5, 2010)

ps this has nothing to do with the thread under mine where Smitty is having to fight a corner!!!!!! EEEEK holy cow.. 

I just want to add this before anyone thinks I am having a go.... FFS I am not... I only want help...  sorry but the thread I just read in this catagory is making me rethink asking this question and for help!!!!


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## Smitty37 (Dec 5, 2010)

*You might have asked me first.*



jonrms said:


> ps this has nothing to do with the thread under mine where Smitty is having to fight a corner!!!!!! EEEEK holy cow..
> 
> I just want to add this before anyone thinks I am having a go.... FFS I am not... I only want help... sorry but the thread I just read in this catagory is making me rethink asking this question and for help!!!!


 
We will make it right....one way or another, but it would have been nice if you came to me first. Is it one kit or a bunch? Did you try a center band from a different kit?   Smitty is not fighting...


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## jonrms (Dec 5, 2010)

Smitty.. they are all the same... I have no doubt you will help resolve this bud.. sorry if this seemed public... and after the thread I read below I instantly regretted it.. I am not trying to hide anything.. and nor are you... and for everyone elses bennifet Smitty is pming me and we are solving this..  I wanted to see if anyone else had any issues.... or suggestions..

but I still regret this thread after reading the below one!!!!


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## PenMan1 (Dec 5, 2010)

Jon:
Wait unti you buy a sealed bag of 20 identical HIGH END pens, measure one set with calipers and turn all 40 barrels..... And THEN find out that several sets from the SAME sealed bag measure significantly different.

That was a very expensive way to learn to measure EACH hardware set.

Respectfully submitted.


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## jonrms (Dec 5, 2010)

eeek sounds horrible.. glad I measured my bushings first.. I was taught to measure first.. because your bushings can be just that bit out.. but to always measure first... so I did... as always... 

then I had to measure all centre bands.. and see if any were differant.. the 24k gold ones were fine to the bushings but the centre bands from the ones I bought were just that bit oversized... hard to explain.. and I would have had a large centre band sticking out of the pen if I didnt use another centre band as a bushing....


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## Smitty37 (Dec 5, 2010)

*Return...*

Sorry, I can't find anything wrong...I measured black cebterbabd against the bushing and found the centerband was a tad bigger...but very hard to measure and when held against the bushing looked dead on. I measured the black against a gold centerband and found the gold to be marginally larger than the black. I measured the bushings with a micrometer and I am waiting for a reply from the vendor on them but my guess is that the 8.50mm that I measured is dead on center of their spread.

But, that being said, if you are not satisfied and feel that you can't produce good pens from the kits discard them away and I will refund every cent you paid. Don't bother shipping them back, the hassel involved wouldn't be worth it..

*The vendor has replied and the nominal bushing od is 8.4mm I measured 12 (4 sets)mine measure 8.44mm -8.52mm[none measured below nominal] since your problem is with the centerband being larger than be bushing the bushings are right.*


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## jonrms (Dec 6, 2010)

ok well I guess I am wrong on this one.. I can use the parts for the pen for other slimlines. I will just have to use other centre bands.. ie the deco ones that I know fit the bushings. thank you for your reply I appreciate your prompt responce. 

sadly I know the band stick out when turned if useing the bushings. but I can always butcher a kit and use one centre band to use as a substitute bushing for now till I can fabricate a new bushing.


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## Smitty37 (Dec 6, 2010)

*Refund issued*



jonrms said:


> ok well I guess I am wrong on this one.. I can use the parts for the pen for other slimlines. I will just have to use other centre bands.. ie the deco ones that I know fit the bushings. thank you for your reply I appreciate your prompt responce.
> 
> sadly I know the band stick out when turned if useing the bushings. but I can always butcher a kit and use one centre band to use as a substitute bushing for now till I can fabricate a new bushing.


 
Sorry I can't help you, I can't picture the problem and can do nothing to fix it.  You still seem to be dissatisfied with the transaction so I have issued a full refund for both orders.


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## OLDMAN5050 (Dec 6, 2010)

Now that is service. not many venders can match that........


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## jonrms (Dec 6, 2010)

Smitty... i was not after that... there really is something with those bushings and that centre band... as I said.. I will get you photos and send you some centre bands... now maybe its the UK thing or maybe I am being thick... I didnt and WONT slate your products bud... I cant say that enough.. you have been more than helpfull and I wish I lived closer to physically show you... refunding me wasnt what I am after... I never suggested that and please note I wasnt after that... because now I feel that we cut ties and I cant order from you again... which is a HUGE shame if thats the case... you have been more than helpfull... I just wish I can show you.. I am still trying to find a way... let me think please...


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## alphageek (Dec 6, 2010)

jonrms said:


> ok well I guess I am wrong on this one.. I can use the parts for the pen for other slimlines. I will just have to use other centre bands.. ie the deco ones that I know fit the bushings. thank you for your reply I appreciate your prompt responce.
> 
> sadly I know the band stick out when turned if useing the bushings. but I can always butcher a kit and use one centre band to use as a substitute bushing for now till I can fabricate a new bushing.



Fabricating a bushing is definately one answer... But there is a good learning above.   As Penman stated, a micrometer is your best friend when it comes to pen making.    A bushing will get you close, but its always best to measure with a micrometer for critical joints.  

Another great option would be to search for some of the threads that talk about not using the center band... Some of the best slimlines that I have seen on here don't use one!


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## jonrms (Dec 6, 2010)

thanks alphageek. I will do that.. I am not trying to be a grumpy customer... I have bought loads off of here.... I should have taken someones advice and hung onto my wallet.. because so far I have spent a few thousand dollars from various people and companys... this was only a minor issue... and I really appreciate what Smitty has done but I dont want people thinking that I was picking on him or saying his products are not any good.... I just ran into a bump.. Smitty has gone above and beyond what I expected... I still have the issue of the centre bushing but I will try to go around that with what everyone else is saying.. I also dont want to ruin a relationship with anyone over this... its only a centre bushing issue.. and I dont want people thinking I am grumpy either.... I havnt complained about anything yet.. just questioned one centre band/bushing... I hope this comes across well... because what I mean is coming from my heart and head and isnt always the best when typed.


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## Smitty37 (Dec 6, 2010)

*Won't sell you slimlines*



jonrms said:


> Smitty... i was not after that... there really is something with those bushings and that centre band... as I said.. I will get you photos and send you some centre bands... now maybe its the UK thing or maybe I am being thick... I didnt and WONT slate your products bud... I cant say that enough.. you have been more than helpfull and I wish I lived closer to physically show you... refunding me wasnt what I am after... I never suggested that and please note I wasnt after that... because now I feel that we cut ties and I cant order from you again... which is a HUGE shame if thats the case... you have been more than helpfull... I just wish I can show you.. I am still trying to find a way... let me think please...


 
I said I'm not going to post here but I don't see how to avoid it in this case.

Even though no other customer has had this complaint with something like 3800 or so of the kits you bought, I have a no nonsense policy that if a customer has a problem with what I sell and I can't fix it. I give them a refund.  Usually I ask that the item be returned but with the customs and other hassel because you are in England I decided it best to just let you keep the kits.

You can't accomplish anything by sending me centerbands.  I still have over 1000 of the kits you bought in stock as well as about a hundred sets of bushings.  Trust me, if I were going to see the problem I would see it with what I have.

I did not say you can't order from me.  If you feel you can't that's your problem and you deal with it.  In fairness, I won't accept an order for Fancy Slimline Kits from you.


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## Smitty37 (Dec 7, 2010)

*refused to close*

I asked the moderator to close this thread but they refused so I will post this not.

I do not believe the original poster had a real problem.  The kits he bought were fancy slimlines where the centerband is higher in the middle than at the wood mating edges...the bushings are sized to the mating edges and thus are about 1 to 1.2mm thinner than the max diameter of the center band (it is difficult to measure..  If he turns the wood to match the top of the centerband it will be proud of the edges.  In a normal perfectly flat fancy slimline the top of the mounded centerband is slightly above the mating wood and thus a little higher than the rest of the pen.  That is normal for these kits.  I think he had perfectly normal kits and a perfectly normal set of bushings.


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## workinforwood (Dec 7, 2010)

Smitty37 said:


> I asked the moderator to close this thread but they refused so I will post this not.
> 
> I do not believe the original poster had a real problem.  The kits he bought were fancy slimlines where the centerband is higher in the middle than at the wood mating edges...the bushings are sized to the mating edges and thus are about 1 to 1.2mm thinner than the max diameter of the center band (it is difficult to measure..  If he turns the wood to match the top of the centerband it will be proud of the edges.  In a normal perfectly flat fancy slimline the top of the mounded centerband is slightly above the mating wood and thus a little higher than the rest of the pen.  That is normal for these kits.  I think he had perfectly normal kits and a perfectly normal set of bushings.



This makes perfect sense to me.  You have basically the centerband which is a short tube, and in the middle of that tube it is raised, so the centerband itself looks like a wedding ring. The edges of the centerband should be flush with the pen, but not the center of the centerband..it will sit higher.  This kit is a little different than some of them where the centerband is plain and completely straight across.  This slim kit will look better if you do not turn the barrels completely straight, you should arc the barrels slightly so that the ring in the middle does not look out of place.  Because of the design of this ring, it is difficult for anyone to get an accurate measurement of OD on the edges of it.  I have gotten the impression almost from the very start that there never was really a problem here, just a mis understanding of what this slim kit should look like when finished.  I also am of the opinion that the original poster was out of line with his comments which were like snide remarks and also the accused needs to sit back and relax. You are dealing with customer service.  You have to just try and feel it out what the problem is and hopefully come up with a solution that does not involve returning the same verbal snide remarks and abuse you received.  Cake anyone? :cake:


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## turner.curtis (Dec 7, 2010)

Sorry if this is not accepted, but thought I would try to shed some light for a vendor from an outside perspective. I am really new to turning and this site in general, so please bear that in mind.

@Smitty from reading through this posting, I would never order anything from you. You appear to come off as rude and obnoxious from my perspective. We are all human and make mistakes, your initial reaction to the OP posting and asking for feedback was rude to say the least. I am one that would question myself initially before the vendor to insure I am correct versus taking a needless issue to the vendor. To me it appears the OP was doing just that, trying to validate his opinion or to prove the fact.

Still discounting the OPs issue without working through and helping them understand why it is or is not truely an issue with a degree of patience and not jumping to say the OP does not have a REAL problem would have shed you in a much brighter light to me, and would have had me saying that is a guy I am going to order from. To put it bluntly all of us have REAL problems that others with better understanding or a higher degree of knowledge do not forsee as a problem, although to the "eye of the beholder" it is still a problem.

Please take this as constructive criticism, and not an attack on you or your business. I do not know you or your service from dirt, but reading this thread has allowed me to form an opinion which is probably completely wrong and off base but that is my initial perception


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## DurocShark (Dec 7, 2010)

There's supposed to be a centerband?

http://donimages.com/wood/images/slimbluslvng01.jpg

:wink:


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## MesquiteMan (Dec 8, 2010)

Smitty37 said:


> I asked the moderator to close this thread but they refused so I will post this not.



Please note...just because someone ask to have a thread closed or deleted does NOT mean we will necessarily comply.  We have reviewed this thread and do not find anything it in that violates the AUP or TOS.  Smitty, if you feel otherwise, please report the thread and cite the portion of the TOS or AUP that you feel has been violated.

Curtis O. Seebeck
IAP Head Moderator


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## jonrms (Dec 8, 2010)

workinforwood said:


> Smitty37 said:
> 
> 
> > I asked the moderator to close this thread but they refused so I will post this not.
> ...


 
I havnt replied but after recieving a rather nasty pm and reading this I was shocked.. I am in the process of sorting this issue out by making another bushing to match the centre band... Another company in america is helping me out... it appears that someone on here has taken this personal.. I have not made any snide remakrs bar one which I said so it must be me... ie throwing in the towel.. 

I never slated or said anything against Smitty or his buisness...and I ONLY ASKED FOR HELP!!!!!! sorry but I am really a victim here.. or someone who seems to be bullied "so to speak" with this. I havnt replied to Smittys last thread but he seems heck bent on keeping this going. 

anyway I am taking this up with the moderators... as it seems the last thing I can do to protect myself. I havnt had any issues with anyone else and hope never to have any like this with anyone again!!!!!

:frown:


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## workinforwood (Dec 8, 2010)

jonrms said:


> ps this has nothing to do with the thread under mine where Smitty is having to fight a corner!!!!!! EEEEK holy cow..
> 
> I just want to add this before anyone thinks I am having a go.... FFS I am not... I only want help...  sorry but the thread I just read in this category is making me rethink asking this question and for help!!!!



Really jon...you did nothing wrong?  What's this...post number 5 or six in the thread..before Smitty even responded to the thread you wrote this.  This would not be what I call a good idea.  Whether you really do or do not have a problem, you don't go about solving it by making snide remarks about the vendor in question. The very first sentence I quote here, is a snide remark followed up with the EEEEK holy cow. And also, just to say you are not starting this thread to stir up anything with Smitty...well, when you say that, then it opens up the question in peoples minds, is he or is he not?  I'm not saying you are, what I'm saying is you ask your question and wait for answers as you discuss your issue, and if you throw in any off the cuff remarks like this, it invalidates anything you have done. I have nothing personal against you jon, nor Smitty.  His response in my opinion is also unacceptable.  Maybe if you both can go back and see where you went socially wrong, you can become friends.


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## MesquiteMan (Dec 8, 2010)

Let's STOP this please.


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## Hess (Dec 8, 2010)

I'm new here but not new to Smithy  have been buying from him in large lots for 2 years now.  Any problems have always been taking care of.

He has taken  time to look at pics and lists to help me figure out what I have .  He does not have to take his time to do that on stuff he did not sell me.  But he did and it helped me alot.

I deal  with him via email not out on a foriem where things can be taken wrong 

In any event he sells a product I can afford and folks like.  He has always been top rung with me 

I use him more than any other vendor and in fact he was the main vender to help me into turning,

Smithy hang in there!  You cant please everyone even if you hung um with a new rope


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## Smitty37 (Dec 8, 2010)

*No one said otherwise*



MesquiteMan said:


> Smitty37 said:
> 
> 
> > I asked the moderator to close this thread but they refused so I will post this not.
> ...


 
Curtis, no one implied that the moderators have to agree to members requests.  I just wanted everyone to know that I wanted to end this thread.  I refunded the customer's money and told him he could keep the kits.  Nothing more I can do.


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## alphageek (Dec 8, 2010)

What part of STOP does everyone not want to understand?

Everyone keeps trying to defend Smitty here.   No one is defending the new member that just needs some help.   He was not continuing to push this, and was only asking for help in the initial questions.   There should have been no need for this to continue and there was no attack on Smitty.   If there was, then a report of the attack would have been looked at by moderators.

As for closing the thread... If you wanted it to go away Smitty, all you needed to was let it lie, instead you posted which made it active again..  As for you not believing that the poster had a problem - if he didn't have a problem, then he wouldn't have posted.   As for your description of the centerband (Smitty), that sounds like many centerband I've seen, but you talk about him turning to the diameter of the center, which is not what the poster described.

Everyone needs to help understand and work to solve the issue, not fight what the issue is or if this is a problem with the product.


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## alphageek (Dec 8, 2010)

Smitty37 said:


> Curtis, no one implied that the moderators have to agree to members requests.  I just wanted everyone to know that I wanted to end this thread.  I refunded the customer's money and told him he could keep the kits.  Nothing more I can do.



And Smitty... Thats exactly my point... Even by giving his money back and letting him have the kits, you have done everything you could do as a vendor.

However, if you are right and there is nothing wrong with the kits, you wanting to end this thread isn't solving his issue.  Rather than closing things down and fighting it, it would be best to help Jon understand the issue... and we may all learn something as well.


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## jttheclockman (Dec 8, 2010)

I have followed this thread only because this has gone for a few pages now. I am not familar with the kit in question because I do not do slimlines of any kind. But from what I have read about the problem and the centerband is actually not a problem but simply a design for this kit. I read the last few posts that explain that the centerband has a section that stands proud of the finished blank which it is designed to do. Actually you see this in alot of kits but maybe not as pronounced as this. Any centerband that has a fancy design init will have a recessed section that the blank sits against and thus the bushings are machined to this measurement. Alot of the Sierra kits have this and here is an example. 
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/JTTHECLOCKMAN/pokerpens3.jpg

All the card shapes are higher than the blank because of the way it is made. The blank is actually spun lower than the centerband. This also happens alot with Sierra caps. If you were to match the curved portion of the cap the blank would look like it was underturned and have sharp edges on it instead of flowing into the parts. 

I think what happens alot here on this site people have a hard time explaining what they mean when describing things and I am included. I also think the most important tool you can own when coming to sites like this and asking questions is a camera. One that can take somewhat of a good photo. Post a photo of the problem and it will explain the situation so much clearer and in less words. If that was done in the beginning we would not have had the war of words. Just my 2¢


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## penhead (Dec 8, 2010)

JT, you took the words right outa my mouth..actually, you just type faster....
...PICTURES...no pic's...didn't happen...
Even cell phones have camera's nowdays...
..PICTURES..then we can all see the problem, if there is one, and solve it...





jttheclockman said:


> I have followed this thread only because this has gone for a few pages now. I am not familar with the kit in question because I do not do slimlines of any kind. But from what I have read about the problem and the centerband is actually not a problem but simply a design for this kit. I read the last few posts that explain that the centerband has a section that stands proud of the finished blank which it is designed to do. Actually you see this in alot of kits but maybe not as pronounced as this. Any centerband that has a fancy design init will have a recessed section that the blank sits against and thus the bushings are machined to this measurement. Alot of the Sierra kits have this and here is an example.
> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/JTTHECLOCKMAN/pokerpens3.jpg
> 
> All the card shapes are higher than the blank because of the way it is made. The blank is actually spun lower than the centerband. This also happens alot with Sierra caps. If you were to match the curved portion of the cap the blank would look like it was underturned and have sharp edges on it instead of flowing into the parts.
> ...


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## KDM (Dec 8, 2010)

I started out with a stock set of 8mm bushings and as I made more varied pens, I bought differrnt bushings, but I wish I hadn't bothered. The best thing about bushings is if you use a tube which isn't a 7mm tube and you need to pad it our. As far as sizing goes, I wouldn't rely on them at all!


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