# TOOL HANDLES



## wood-of-1kind (Aug 28, 2008)

Here's a a quick way to make some tool handles with distinction. This small selection was made to demonstrate the cutting ability of the upcoming SKOGGER tool that will soon be offered exlusively to IAP members. Quick way for me to do these is using the Beall chuck and a home made 1/2" mandrel (bolt actually ). Let me know if you if you like 'em.


----------



## wood-of-1kind (Aug 28, 2008)

*a few more shots*

I'm cheatin a bit by adding a few more pics.


----------



## ranchonodinero (Aug 28, 2008)

Very nice-almost too nice to attach to a tool!!


----------



## rjwolfe3 (Aug 28, 2008)

wow those look cool


----------



## Skye (Aug 28, 2008)

Like anyone's _not_ going to like it!

The one in the chuck reminds me of a samurai sword:


----------



## markgum (Aug 28, 2008)

Very nice.


----------



## ehickey (Aug 29, 2008)

Very cool.  I think I might try some custom tool handles over the holiday.
Thanks for the inspiration!


----------



## thewishman (Aug 29, 2008)

Nice work - those are beautiful!


----------



## Rifleman1776 (Aug 29, 2008)

The in-progress handle looks like it is sagging in the center. Might just be an illusion.
Very fancy. However, some of the finished handles look like they might have sacrificed comfort for fancy. But as demos of what can be done, they are fine.


----------



## Ron in Drums PA (Aug 29, 2008)

I'm sorry Frank, I have to agree with you again.

Clear wood with no defects would be a smarter choice for handles.

The one with segments would only be nice for display, I would advise not to use them.

Hope your Skogger is better manufactured than your handles.


----------



## wood-of-1kind (Aug 29, 2008)

Ron in Drums PA said:


> Hope your Skogger is better manufactured than your handles.




Low blow Ron but I've been waiting for this cheap shot. Seen it coming but the SKOGGER will do the talking for me.


----------



## cnirenberg (Aug 29, 2008)

Very nice.  I like the pin chuck idea vs. the alternate methods of turning handles posted on various sites.  I made a screwdriver handle for a friend that way.
Cris


----------



## Mikey (Aug 29, 2008)

Skye said:


> Like anyone's _not_ going to like it!
> 
> The one in the chuck reminds me of a samurai sword:



Not quite what I had pictured, but that works too.:smile-big:

And WTH is a skogger?


----------



## Ron in Drums PA (Aug 29, 2008)

wood-of-1kind said:


> Ron in Drums PA said:
> 
> 
> > Clear wood with no defects would be a smarter choice for handles.
> ...




Not sure what you mean by seen it coming. This is not a cheap shot at all.

Just a cautionary word that gluing endgrain to endgrain or using blanks with bark inclusions on a handle is looking for trouble.

A tool is only as good or safe as it's handle.

I wish you luck in your endeavor.


----------



## desertyellow (Aug 29, 2008)

functional and beautiful


----------



## VisExp (Aug 29, 2008)

Peter, the handles look beautiful, but I would have to agree with Ron. My first thought when I saw them was "there's a weak joint where you don't want one".

End-grain to end-grain glue ups are probably about the weakest joint there is. 

The segmented handles you have made where you glued long grain to long grain would probably be fine. Depending on the glue used and clamping techniques, the wood in those handles would probably fail before the glue joint did.

Judging from one of your other posts in another thread where you said the Skogger would be smaller than the Easy Rougher, I'm guessing your tool is aimed mainly at turning pens. The chances of a major catch on a pen blank are pretty small, but why take a chance? I'm sure the Skogger could also be used on other spindle work and roughing out small bowls, where the chance of a major catch is even greater, at least in my experience :biggrin: If the handle failed at that point it could be disastrous.

I would not take Ron's comments as a low blow, rather as an opportunity to improve on a great product you have obviously put a great deal of time and effort into.

I hope you take these comments in the spirit in which they are offered.


----------



## cozee (Aug 30, 2008)

Peter, awesome looking handles what has been said about your crafted handles doesn't mean you cannot make the idea work!!!! . As segmented and inclusioned handles, they do have some serious weak points. But there is a way to have the best of both worlds. _Think sleeve_. Presuming you are turning a round tang on the end of the square tool shaft to a nominal size, let's say 3/8", use a piece of 5/8" o.d. aluminum rod, drill to fit the tang then drill your segments to fit the o.d. of the rod and glue up. Once it is dried and ready to turn, chuck it up between centers and turn out your prefered handle profile. Be sure to turn a plug for the butt end. Viola! A great looking segmented handle that will not snap off on a solid catch. You could either epoxy the tang in the tube or you could drill through the handle under the collar and through one side of the tube, tap the tube and use set screws to hold the tang. Then slip the collar over the holes for a neater appearance. This would make your handle more versitile!


----------



## Ron in Drums PA (Aug 30, 2008)

cozee

In order for your idea to work safely, an rod would need to be inserted all the way through the handle. As you suggested, a hollow tube may work, but I won't be the one to test it out.


----------



## wood-of-1kind (Aug 30, 2008)

*Better handles*

Thank you all for the suggestions for making the handles stronger (esp. Cozee). While I fully agree that the segmented glue ups are not the safest for regular strength handles  they are perfectly fine for "lighter" strained work that do not require brute holding gripping. I'll take this opportunity to share how the SKOGGER works: 

the rotating blank is doing most of the "work" through the rotation of the headstock while the Skogger merely provides blade action for stock removal. A light touch and easy thrust of the carbide insert is all that is required to make a cut. The handle acts more of a guide and makes the steel tool easier to hold. The tool is so easy to use that I've actually have turned my initial wood handle with an unhandled Skogger. While I've done it to prove that it could be done, I'm not advocating doing this for those that may eventually purchase such a tool. The tool and the handle receive little strain/pressure and and makes it really simple to turn with a "light" touch. Very little strain if any on your wrist. Really like no other turning chisel out there.

A limited number of SKOGGER(s) have been manufactured and almost ready to ship. My last step is to send it out for plating (black anodizing) to give it greater resistance to wear and also to give it a distinct look. Turning a fancy handle will give it a finishing touch and truly make it "your" tool. Safety has not been comprimised in the design of this tool, but you ultimately (IAP members) will be my final judge as to whether or not it becomes a good marketable tool that adds to your turning pleasure.


----------



## Rifleman1776 (Aug 30, 2008)

Ron in Drums PA said:


> I'm sorry Frank, I have to agree with you again.
> 
> Clear wood with no defects would be a smarter choice for handles.
> 
> ...



Yer takin' the fun out of everything. Or, I have slipped. ;-)  Need to regroup and try harder.


----------



## Rifleman1776 (Aug 30, 2008)

wood-of-1kind said:


> Thank you all for the suggestions for making the handles stronger (esp. Cozee). While I fully agree that the segmented glue ups are not the safest for regular strength handles  they are perfectly fine for "lighter" strained work that do not require brute holding gripping. I'll take this opportunity to share how the SKOGGER works:
> 
> the rotating blank is doing most of the "work" through the rotation of the headstock while the Skogger merely provides blade action for stock removal. A light touch and easy thrust of the carbide insert is all that is required to make a cut. The handle acts more of a guide and makes the steel tool easier to hold. The tool is so easy to use that I've actually have turned my initial wood handle with an unhandled Skogger. While I've done it to prove that it could be done, I'm not advocating doing this for those that may eventually purchase such a tool. The tool and the handle receive little strain/pressure and and makes it really simple to turn with a "light" touch. Very little strain if any on your wrist. Really like no other turning chisel out there.
> 
> A limited number of SKOGGER(s) have been manufactured and almost ready to ship. My last step is to send it out for plating (black anodizing) to give it greater resistance to wear and also to give it a distinct look. Turning a fancy handle will give it a finishing touch and truly make it "your" tool. Safety has not been comprimised in the design of this tool, but you ultimately (IAP members) will be my final judge as to whether or not it becomes a good marketable tool that adds to your turning pleasure.





While I have to admire your enterprise and innovative approach, it is my opinion that a lathe tool handle must be sturdy and ready for any kind of use and 99% of possible mis-uses. Safety is #1. A turner does not pick up a 'light touch' tool. He picks up the weapon that will do the job. And turning often produces surprises. We cuss and call them 'catches' or 'blow outs'. Making attractive tools is a worthy pursuit. Craftsmen have been showing pride in their skills this way for many centuries.
What you have now is the beginning of an idea. Carry on. I hope that soon you will be able to combine your unique beauty with timeless practicality.


----------



## Ron in Drums PA (Aug 30, 2008)

This is a new record Frank, three in a row. Something must have shifted in the Time Space Continuum. :biggrin:



wood-of-1kind said:


> While I fully agree that the segmented glue ups are not the safest for regular strength handles  they are perfectly fine for "lighter" strained work that do not require brute holding gripping.



So you know they are not safe and only good for light duty work and still plan on selling them to the people on IAP. Scary Peter, real scary.

Like Frank says, "Safety is #1"


----------



## THarvey (Aug 30, 2008)

When do you think the SKOGGER will be ready for sell?  Do you have an introductry price yet?

I understood, from an earlier thread, that you would offer the tool without a handle.  Is that the case, or are you planning on making handles for them also?

Thanks,

Tim


----------



## Hiram33 (Aug 30, 2008)

Very nice any one would be proud to have a tool handle like that


----------



## DCBluesman (Aug 30, 2008)

There is a very famous bowl turner who puts segmented handles on all of his turning tools.  His secret is to glue up the segments using a series of tenons.  In that way, you  will have a strong, mechanical joint and can still display your artistry in segmenting.  Something to think about.


----------



## wood-of-1kind (Aug 30, 2008)

Ron in Drums PA said:


> So you know they are not safe and only good for light duty work and still plan on selling them to the people on IAP. Scary Peter, real scary.



Cheap shot#2 Ron, would you care to to try for a third? Where have I ever mentioned abour selling handles? The SKOGGER is what I will be offering and it will be "safer" than any turning chisel currently offered. You obviously have missed my point, which is the "light handling" of my product that will function quite well with a segmented handle or otherwise. I take safety seriously and I certainly do not engage in "twisting" intentions of members' postings. If you have a beef with me or my upcoming product let's take it off line and resolve it as adults.


----------



## wood-of-1kind (Aug 30, 2008)

DCBluesman said:


> There is a very famous bowl turner who puts segmented handles on all of his turning tools.  His secret is to glue up the segments using a series of tenons.  In that way, you  will have a strong, mechanical joint and can still display your artistry in segmenting.  Something to think about.



Thanks for the tip Lou, it's been duly noted. As an aside, I have direct access to industrial strength adhesives that is quite suitable for segmented handles and pen turning. I recently put it to the test with a herringbone wood blank that performed wonderfully without fear of "blowup".


----------



## wood-of-1kind (Aug 30, 2008)

THarvey said:


> When do you think the SKOGGER will be ready for sell?  Do you have an introductry price yet?
> 
> I understood, from an earlier thread, that you would offer the tool without a handle.  Is that the case, or are you planning on making handles for them also?
> 
> ...



I'm about two weeks away from my SKOGGER introduction. I will be offering a "package" which will include a 10" turning block which the purchaser can turn his/her own handle.Solid hardwood choices will be: ash, beech, cherry, maple and walnut.  A ferrule will also be included along with a solid carbide cutter. It will truly give the turner the opportunity of crafting their own "special" tool. Pricing will be determined as the introduction time approaches. My final price will include shipping to any US destination so that everyone knows up front what their true price will be.


----------



## cozee (Aug 30, 2008)

Ron in Drums PA said:


> cozee
> 
> In order for your idea to work safely, an rod would need to be inserted all the way through the handle. As you suggested, a hollow tube may work, but I won't be the one to test it out.



I'll test everyone as I stated . . . 



> then *drill your segments to fit the o.d. of the rod and glue up*. Once it is dried and ready to turn, chuck it up between centers and turn out your prefered handle profile. *Be sure to turn a plug for the butt end.*


I apologize for not stating clearly enough that the purposed rod would run the length of the handle but I thought by saying what I have highlighted that the implication was clear. Especially with the mention of the resulting need for a plug. Next time I will make sure I clarify things a little better.

 And I never suggested a hollow tube . . . .



> use a piece of 5/8" o.d. aluminum* rod, drill to fit the tang *


Rod is solid and when you drill to fit the tang, that doesn't mean drilling all the way through the rod, just enough to seat the tang of the tool. I would never suggest using a tube as it may well have the tendency to cause and or magnify vibrations just like the handle bars on a motorcycle. Using a rod is no different than using the aluminum handles already available.



> A limited number of SKOGGER(s) have been manufactured and almost ready to ship.


I'm interested!



> My last step is to send it out for plating (black anodizing) to give it greater resistance to wear and also to give it a distinct look.


Definitely interested if ya can get one anodized hot pink or lime green!!!!


----------



## wood-of-1kind (Aug 30, 2008)

cozee said:


> Definitely interested if ya can get one anodized hot pink or lime green!!!!



Greg, to quote ole Henry Ford, "you can have any colour that you want as long as it's black".  :wink:


----------



## cozee (Aug 30, 2008)

wood-of-1kind said:


> Greg, to quote ole Henry Ford, "you can have any colour that you want as long as it's black".  :wink:



Good ol' Henry! He sure new how to sell a car. Black is cool to. I am still interested!


----------



## Ron in Drums PA (Aug 31, 2008)

Peter

I’m sorry you are of the temperament that considers my concern as a low blow or a cheap shot. Since you are posting your product on a public forum you should expect public opinion from both sides of the table.

From your posts, I’m not sure if you are retracting your plans on selling your handles or if you didn’t state your intentions clearly. But for this post only I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you had no intentions of selling the handles you showed in your first post.

The one thing we both agree on is that those handles are unsafe. Again for the benefit of the doubt, I will also agree that these tools can only be used for very light work.  

You show these handles as samples of what one should look like. Mechanically they are unsound and dangerous. Personally they look uncomfortable and look like something a beginner would design (think wasp waisted pens that beginners like to make).

There are many people on this forum who do not know how to make a handle. I know this because I have received well over 30 emails in the last month or two asking me how to make a handle. Some I have answered others I have ignored. (A person can only answer so many emails)

People will see your poorly designed handles and think, “Gee I can glue up a segmented handle just like that!” or “Boy, this piece has a nice bark inclusion, I’ll use this for a handle!” Both these handles are destined to fail and possibly injure the turner. The problem is these turners made the handles because you posted what can be done and they believe they are safe making a handle like yours. They believe you are an expert and will follow your example. You need to take responsibility for that.

Cozee mentioned a handle that should work, personally I think it is to complicated and too much work involved in making one. I feel a handle should not only serve a purpose, but should also be easy to make. But that is for each individual turner to decide. 

Lou, suggested using the time honored technique of using mortise and tenons. This will work great for rings, but there are few turners who know how to make a 45° shoulder on a tenon. Those that do are ones who have a well versed background in flat woodworking.

Here’s the bottom line, I’m concerned with someone getting hurt with your handles or your designs. I really don’t care if you succeed or not making these tools. I have no financial gain or loss one way or the other. I also have no personal conflict with you. I'm just trying to make you aware of the consequences of what you started in this thread. 

I will promise you this, if I see a tool that is poorly designed and can cause harm to a person, I will call it out. I don’t care if its your tool or someone else’s tool. You can count on me bring it to the attention of others. Better having a tool maker cry because his feelings got hurt than having a poorly designed tool or handle causing physical injury to another turner.


----------



## wood-of-1kind (Aug 31, 2008)

Ron, thank you for the public announcement, I'm sure that everyone now feels safer of avoiding imminent danger. And no my feelings are not hurt (cry??) with your postings. I have full confidence that the membership will know what is a safe design and what is a perceived danger. This tool is safer to use than any other turning skew out there but as I said before, the SKOGGER will prove me right.


----------



## Ron in Drums PA (Aug 31, 2008)

You're quite welcome Pete.

But I do see where you are getting confused, the only thing I'm taking about is your handles. I'm not talking about your version of the EasyRider, which is proven to be a good, safe tool. Time will tell if your copy will match up to your competitor's quality. Knowing the mechanics behind this tool, I would be surprised if it didn't.

I find your ploy of comparing a skew to your skogger interesting though. It would make as much sense if you compared the skogger to a bowl gouge.

Are you in marketing by any chance?


----------



## cozee (Aug 31, 2008)

Ron in Drums PA said:


> Peter
> 
> Cozee mentioned a handle that should work, personally I think it is to complicated and too much work involved in making one. I feel a handle should not only serve a purpose, but should also be easy to make. But that is for each individual turner to decide.



No should to it. It will work, and in fact, probably be safer than a standard wooden handle alone as a tang has the potential to break through the wood on a good hard catch. And as far as this type of handle being easy to make, segmenting would be easier than for a pen since one typically has to drill the center of a pen blank spot on after the segmenting work is completed. This is simply a drill, stack, and turn operation.  And besides serving a purpose and easy to turn, why can't a handle look good too?!!!

I think, your think, is keeping itself inside the box!!!!!!!:biggrin:


(_geesch, and I thought I could get opinionated!!!_)


----------



## wood-of-1kind (Sep 1, 2008)

Ron in Drums PA said:


> Are you in marketing by any chance?




Actually I'm in Toronto, Canada. :wink:


----------

