# Stupid question- what's the difference between "rollerball" and "ballpoint"?



## underdog (May 15, 2012)

Just wondering what is the difference between a "rollerball" and "ballpoint"?

Sorry for the dumb question, but there it is...


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## lorbay (May 15, 2012)

The main difference is the ink. In ballpoint pens, the ink is an oil-based paste ink that dries immediately. It is suited to all types of writing styles. The frustration some people feel with ballpoint pens usually involves an inferior brand of pen that makes blobs or skips. High quality ballpoint pens do not do this.


On the other hand, the ink of a rollerball pen is more fluid than ballpoint ink, so it seldom skips, but the ink does take a few seconds to dry. The ink in a rollerball also runs out sooner than in a ballpoint, requiring more frequent refills.

Lin.


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## underdog (May 15, 2012)

Are the rollers different also?

I noticed that I REALLY liked one of those cheap gel pens* with the big roller the other day. It wrote so much smoother than the fine points..

*I think it was the Pilot G2 bold point.


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## PenMan1 (May 15, 2012)

The Pilot G2 roller ball refill will fit almost all of the component pens that call for Schmidt 888 or 5888 refill.

One advantage of the G2 gel refill is that they offer permanent ink that will not "wash" with acetone.


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## ashaw (May 15, 2012)

Also with a roller ball just like a fountain pen the ink will run or wash out when coming in contact with water.  
Schmidt easy flow 9000 gives you the best of both worlds.  Writes like a roller ball but will not smear when it comes into contact with water.  I have had bad experiences with all gel inks in the past that I stay away from them.  They may have improved. I still like the 9000.


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## Rick P (May 15, 2012)

underdog said:


> Just wondering what is the difference between a "rollerball" and "ballpoint"?
> 
> Sorry for the dumb question, but there it is...


 
Not a dumb question thanks for asking it! And thanks to the rest for there answers.......been wondering the sam myself for some time now.


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## Smitty37 (May 15, 2012)

PenMan1 said:


> The Pilot G2 roller ball refill will fit almost all of the component pens that call for Schmidt 888 or 5888 refill.
> 
> One advantage of the G2 gel refill is that they offer permanent ink that will not "wash" with acetone.


 Don't the gel's dry a little quicker also?


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## PenMan1 (May 15, 2012)

Smitty37 said:


> PenMan1 said:
> 
> 
> > The Pilot G2 roller ball refill will fit almost all of the component pens that call for Schmidt 888 or 5888 refill.
> ...


 
I'm not really sure, Smitty. The G2 small tips seem to dry fast. The bigger ones seem to dry slower than the 5888 medium tip.


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## sbarton22 (May 15, 2012)

So what is a higher end ball point?
What kind of pens call for Schmidt 888 or 5888 refill? Can you just buy those gel refills?


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## ed4copies (May 15, 2012)

One other thing not yet mentioned: A rollerball USUALLY has to have a cap.

So, a ballpoint is more convenient--simply extend the point and write.


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## Smitty37 (May 15, 2012)

sbarton22 said:


> So what is a higher end ball point?
> What kind of pens call for Schmidt 888 or 5888 refill? Can you just buy those gel refills?


 Almost any pen using a rollerball refill can use Schmidt 888 or 5888....they are not gel refills.

You can buy gel refills...I think Schmidt makes one that will work in pens taking parker style refills (Parker style is another type of ballpoint refill)


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## Ulises Victoria (May 16, 2012)

Sorry for stealing the thread, but... a potential customer asked me if I had "Gel" pens. I am not sure what he was referring to. How do I know what a gel refill is? Are ALL rollerball gel? TIA.


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## PenMan1 (May 16, 2012)

Ulises Victoria said:


> Sorry for stealing the thread, but... a potential customer asked me if I had "Gel" pens. I am not sure what he was referring to. How do I know what a gel refill is? Are ALL rollerball gel? TIA.



To my knowledge, Pilot G2 is the only roller ball refill offered with gel ink.
Virtually ALL of the refill manufacturers offer a gel ballpoint refills.

As Alan mentioned, in the old days, gel inks caused many problems for pen makers. IMHO, today's Japanese gel inks (Pilot G2 included) are just as reliable as the other ballpoint inks, dry almost as quickly and less costly than many other alternative choices.

In fact, I have several customers that like the "5888" style pens, but want to make sure that they will use the G2 type refill. 

I have noticed a similarity of these customers, in that they are all architects, engineers, landscape architects, etc that do a considerable amount of "block style printing".

Ed, while these refills are advertised and sold as "gel roller ball refills" they are sold without caps. IN THEORY, this could open up a new design possibility of a "click type" roller ball pen.


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## Smitty37 (May 16, 2012)

PenMan1 said:


> Ulises Victoria said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry for stealing the thread, but... a potential customer asked me if I had "Gel" pens. I am not sure what he was referring to. How do I know what a gel refill is? Are ALL rollerball gel? TIA.
> ...


  I think the PSI Slimline Pro comes with a gel cartridge and would seem to fit that description...my wife likes it.  The refill is similar to a parker but might not be the same length as parker ballpoints.  I think Schmidt makes a Parker Style refill gel that will replace regular refills.


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## underdog (May 16, 2012)

So... Ed's answer begs the question; why do some gel pens NEED caps? They dry out otherwise?

And the next question is... where can I get a parker style (slimline) gel refill with a bold (large) roller?


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## PenMan1 (May 16, 2012)

Ed can't really answer the "where can I get one" question without getting in trouble with the IAP police.

But not being affiliated with any vendor, I CAN say that Parker Style gel refills from Schmidt can be purchased from Exotic Blanks, Indy Pen Dance and (I think) Classic Nibs. There may be other vendors here that sell these, but I'm not sure who they are. 

These refills work VERY nicely and  my customers really like these gel refills, as well as the Private Reserve EZ Flo 9000.


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## PenMan1 (May 16, 2012)

Smitty;
If I'm not mistaken, the PSI Slimline Pro uses a Parker style ballpoint refill, not the Schmidt 888 roller ball refill.

I have been looking for some time, as I have a decent sized marker for gel ink in the Schmidt 888 roller ball format. The Pilot refill is the only gel ink roller ball refill that I have found.


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## Smitty37 (May 16, 2012)

underdog said:


> So... Ed's answer begs the question; why do some gel pens NEED caps? They dry out otherwise?
> 
> And the next question is... where can I get a parker style (slimline) gel refill with a bold (large) roller?


 Yes, true of most if not all rollerballs....


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## Smitty37 (May 16, 2012)

PenMan1 said:


> Ed can't really answer the "where can I get one" question without getting in trouble with the IAP police.
> 
> But not being affiliated with any vendor, I CAN say that Parker Style gel refills from Schmidt can be purchased from Exotic Blanks, Indy Pen Dance and (I think) Classic Nibs. There may be other vendors here that sell these, but I'm not sure who they are.
> 
> These refills work VERY nicely and my customers really like these gel refills, as well as the Private Reserve EZ Flo 9000.


 The Schmidt 9000 is just as good as the Private Reserve and is cheaper.


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## Smitty37 (May 16, 2012)

PenMan1 said:


> Smitty;
> If I'm not mistaken, the PSI Slimline Pro uses a Parker style ballpoint refill, not the Schmidt 888 roller ball refill.
> 
> I have been looking for some time, as I have a decent sized marker for gel ink in the Schmidt 888 roller ball format. The Pilot refill is the only gel ink roller ball refill that I have found.


 Well Andy, you are mostly right ....you are right in that it absolutely does not use a Schmidt 888 refill. It comes with a Parker style gel ink refill and I've had problems getting a private reserve gel refill to work in my wife's it doesn't retract right and it seems to be related to the spring but the original works fine with the same spring. I think the private reserve might be a tad fatter or something.


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## PenMan1 (May 16, 2012)

Smitty;
Tear the label off of the EZ Flo 9000 DAMHIKT


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## Smitty37 (May 16, 2012)

PenMan1 said:


> Smitty;
> Tear the label off of the EZ Flo 9000 DAMHIKT


 I wish that would work but mine don't have the little sticker.  I'm going to try a new spring and maybe reaming the hole a little bit.  I have the same kind of problem occasionally with other kits and sometimes have to ream the hole in the tip just a tad to make them work.


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## Tage (May 18, 2012)

PenMan1 said:


> Smitty;
> If I'm not mistaken, the PSI Slimline Pro uses a Parker style ballpoint refill, not the Schmidt 888 roller ball refill.
> 
> I have been looking for some time, as I have a decent sized marker for gel ink in the Schmidt 888 roller ball format. The Pilot refill is the only gel ink roller ball refill that I have found.



On the PSI website under specs the Slimline Pro is described as a "Gelwriter Click Pen".  In my recent experience, the 24 kt plating comes with a Parker style refill and the brushed satin comes with a gel refill (same size as Parker).  I've had trouble with the click mechanism on these kits, however.


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## Smitty37 (May 18, 2012)

Tage said:


> PenMan1 said:
> 
> 
> > Smitty;
> ...


 I haven't bought a lot of them but they all came with a gel ink refill.


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## mdburn_em (May 19, 2012)

Smitty37 said:


> I've had problems getting a private reserve gel refill to work in my wife's it doesn't retract right and it seems to be related to the spring but the original works fine with the same spring.





Smitty37 said:


> PenMan1 said:
> 
> 
> > Smitty;
> ...



I've had problems with other refills as well.  Problems like you've mentioned.  Some of them I resolve by turning the spring end for end.  I don't quite get why that works, but it HAS resolved a lot of the problems I've had.


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## Smitty37 (May 19, 2012)

mdburn_em said:


> Smitty37 said:
> 
> 
> > I've had problems getting a private reserve gel refill to work in my wife's it doesn't retract right and it seems to be related to the spring but the original works fine with the same spring.
> ...


Yes, that works because some springs are bigger on one end than the other - usually you want the bigger end toward the refill.  I've done that (swapped ends) on this one.


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## dtswebb (May 20, 2012)

Jim,

I'm going to jump in here with my preference.  I rotate through a lot of pens that use Parker style ball point pen refills.  You can purchase Parker gel refills that are smoother than the regular ink, but the medium point is a fine to me.

I like a thick, broad line when I write.  I have pretty much standardized on the Monteverde ceramic roller Parker style refill in the broad point.  Yes, the ink lays down wet and needs a few seconds to dry.  But what a fantastic strong black line of ink.

To me, there is no other Parker style refill out there that writes as well and I've tried them all.

Matthew


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## underdog (May 20, 2012)

And where does one get those?


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## dtswebb (May 20, 2012)

Jim,

If you're asking where I purchase Monteverde refills, I use Colorado Pen Direct (www.coloradopen.com).  Their prices are good, their service is great and they sell so many refills that what you're getting hasn't been sitting around for a long time.

I know there has to be many other places to get the refills; I just happened to stumble across Colorado Pen and have been happy with them.

Be sure to look for the Monteverde ceramic gel refills.  I use two type - the black broad point and the brown fine (which I fond to be between a fine and medium point).

Matthew


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## PenMan1 (May 20, 2012)

Matthew:
I love the Monteverde refills and use Colorado pen also. I have bought them in Parker style refills, but I haven't seen them in Schmidt 5888 size. Do you have a link?


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## dtswebb (May 20, 2012)

Andy,

I use the Monteverde ceramic gel refills for anything that takes a Parker style ballpoint refill.  For most of the rollerballs, I use a Pilot G2 refill if I can.

If you go to www.yafa.com, you'll see a link to the Monteverde refill catalog and can compare refills.  I have not tried any of the Monteverde rollerball refills.

Matthew


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## jzerger (May 21, 2012)

Our local Officedepot sells the Monteverde refills.  I like the variety of colors. However they don't seem to last long.


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## Smitty37 (May 21, 2012)

I think that pens which lay down a "wet" line use more ink when you are writing, hence the refill will not last as long.  It might possible that I'm wrong about that but I believe that would be covered by the laws of Physics or thermodynamics or some such.....:biggrin:


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## underdog (May 21, 2012)

Funny man..

Does that rule apply to the larger rollers too?


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## Smitty37 (May 21, 2012)

*Hmmmm*

Rollerballs in general apply more ink to the paper than ballpoints in general...therefore ballpoints will generally last longer between refills. 

That being said however, there are circumstances that can have some effect....my guess is that the easyFlow refills (and their brethren made by other companies) will not last as long as standard Parker refills for the same reason - they put down more ink. 

Also, in this catagory of useless information - for the same reason fine points (assuming they don't dry up - which used to be a problem with fine point Bics) will last longer than medium point which will last longer than wide points of the same genre.

I don't have a lot of experience with the gel refills but the limited experience I do have says they use ink faster than standard ballpoint refills again probably for the same reason ... they put more ink on the paper.

Depending on how many different pens you use and how much actual writing you do with them, you might or might not notice.  When I was working and used one pen until it quit I did - now when I can pick any one of about a hundred on a given day, I will probably never notice at all.


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## sbarton22 (May 23, 2012)

Ok, I'm really going to go supern00b here and try to ask these basic questions from a rookie standpoint so that I understand clearly...

Something like a Sierra uses a Parker style refill. They make gel refills for this style pen. Is a gel ink "better" than the standard ink? Is there a rollerball option for this type pen, or are we concerned with it drying up?

Something like a slimline uses a Cross style refill. I heard something about a slimline pro, but I don't know the difference. So, assuming a standard slimline and gel is better, is there a gel refill for it? If not, what is the upgrade to the kit supplied refill?

Again, please explain it to me like I am a 5 year old. Then, I can go back and re-read this thread and get even more info from it. 

Thanks!


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## Smitty37 (May 23, 2012)

*OK*



sbarton22 said:


> Ok, I'm really going to go supern00b here and try to ask these basic questions from a rookie standpoint so that I understand clearly...
> 
> Something like a Sierra uses a Parker style refill. They make gel refills for this style pen. *Is a gel ink "better" than the standard ink?* Is there a rollerball option for this type pen, or are we concerned with it drying up?
> 
> ...


 They make Parker style refills using gel ink.
 
*That is a matter of opinion, it is sometimes a little more expensive but whether you'll like it better --- who knows.*
** 
*The slimline, comfort, streamline, euro, designer and some others all use the cross style refill.*
** 
*The slimline pro is a little bigger than a slimline and it uses a Parker style refill.  It is a click pen.*
** 
*Personally I don't know if there is a gel refill in the cross style.  But there are some cross refills that are better than others and you can upgrade with anything that writes better and fits the pen.  I have heard of some problems on some cross refills not having the correct thread to work in our pens but I've never run into it personally.*


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## sbarton22 (May 23, 2012)

thank you!


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