# Dissecting Box Elder Wood Today



## W.Y. (Sep 6, 2010)

Here is my start at dissecting the first and the   smallest piece I got from  Bruce (gofer)  yesterday.
I was pleased to see so much red streaking in it . It was hard to determine which angles to cut at to harvest the most useful  pieces while keeping in mind what each piece   will eventually be made into once on the lathe. .

As can be seen in the largest cut piece on the left , the log was decayed in the center. But Hey . .  I am sure not complaining . I was able to work all around it and save some real nice usable pieces. 
I will work on the second one with all the burls in the same manner and then I am going to seal all the pieces with anchorseal until I get around to turning them.
As for the longer logs , Bruce already had a few of those sealed on the ends and I think I will double  seal them and let them sit until spring because I  have  about 30 bowl  blanks all cut out and sealed from another   batch of logs he dropped off here at an earlier date. I just checked where I have then stored and no cracks at all so they are good to turn any time now. 














Then I cut up the other one that  had  the burls on the outside. It was only decayed about 18" from one end . The rest was nice and solid with some awesome red streaking.  I cut it into lengths and  then halved  them as close to the pith as possible to  make   some very nice bowl blanks .
The burls were mostly on the surface  but a few of them went into the  sap wood  a little ways as well . Any burls salvaged will be big enough for pen blanks.


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## rjwolfe3 (Sep 6, 2010)

Man that is some gorgeous wood and a great haul. I was cutting up some Ash stumps at my dad's today that had some great figure and even some red streaking. Not as nice as your wood though.


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## W.Y. (Sep 6, 2010)

Well , I just had to try a piece so I mounted one on the lathe and went at it. This is the piece that is sitting in the bottom right corner of the  previous  picture. It is eight inch  diameter and  rough   turned to just under 1" thick wall from top to bottom . Gotta love  turning green wood with those long curly shavings .

I put it in the bottom of a pail  and poured a gallon of DNA over it . It is resting comfortably and is getting totally inebriated. Will take it out of the drunk tank in 24 hours or so and wrap it and it should be dry  and ready for final turning in two to three weeks.

Picture of the outside didn't have good enough light to show the  patch of burl very good  at the three o'clock position.


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## rjwolfe3 (Sep 6, 2010)

Wowsers that is nice!


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## robutacion (Sep 6, 2010)

Yeah...!  that's what I'm talking about...!:wink:

Dissecting as you call it, (I call it slicing and dicing...!":biggrin, should be one of the most pleasurable jobs as a wood worker of any type.  Turning give us the added bonus to "discover" the goodies or the baddies :frown: a few times over.

Some of us have the opportunity to go though this amazing job/duty/process/method/step/...!, nearly every day and for those that haven't experience it ever, I can tell you, is something else...!

The 5 point that I would like to call for some special attention to those interested in trying to do all this, is to;

*- Learn how to handle a chainsaw (petrol or electric). 
Try to use "something" to hold the log while you are cutting it into pieces, and not your foot or your left hand...! There are log vises you buy or make yourself, very much like the one I invented some years ago and has prove to be an absolute must.  Have a look here for it, it has all the measurements and details for you to build one easily.  
If using a bandsaw afterwards, be careful cutting with the curved face running on the table, blade can "grab" it and make a mess out of the blade, wood and your hand if you are unlucky...!

*- Don't cut any bigger blanks (wood chunks) them those your lathe can handle.  This involve diameter, which is limited to the lathes capacity (distance between the head spindle and the lathe base/bed), and length which will depend of the bed length. 
These are the PHYSICAL (visual) capabilities BUT, is one other crucial "detail" that can and will determine how long the lathe will work for and that is the motor size.  

Overloading your lathes motor with a big and heavy blank, will kill the motor and the bearings...!
Mini lathes don't have much capacity for big(ish) blanks, midi lathes are a little better but still not made for these sort of turnings, you will need a lathe that can (from factory specifications), accommodate safely these type of blanks, and remember, green turning means green/wet wood, this increase the wood weight considerably. 

*- Get bigger tools for bigger turnings.
Pen turning tools are in most cases just too small to handle this sort of work, you may get away with the external turnings but you will hurt yourself trying to do the internals (hollows).

*- Always get the biggest chuck the lathe and your pocket allows, unless these blanks are attached to the lathe properly and securely, they will become heavy "projectiles" spinning and travelling at very fast speed...!

*- Lastly but not last, think SAFETY in all the various steps involved with this type of work, being safe beats by miles, being sorry...!:wink:

William, I hope that you don't mind me utilizing your thread to alert and make sure, new turners understand that what they see in the pics reflects years of experience and using the right tools for the job.  I have no doubt that most of the members have some experience with this type of "heavy turning", even tough is is a predominantly a pen turning forum but, there are a lot of new (young and not so young) people in here, I felt appropriated to provide this free piece of advice before someone gets hurt...!:frown:

Now, in relation to your turnings, that piece does have some nice strikes in it, lets hope that red doesn't faint away...!:wink::biggrin:

Good luck and safe turning...!

Cheers
George


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## W.Y. (Sep 6, 2010)

> William, I hope that you don't mind me utilizing your thread to alert and make sure, new turners understand that what they see in the pics reflects years of experience and using the right tools for the job. I have no doubt that most of the members have some experience with this type of "heavy turning",



I don't mind at all . We both know that some will heed the info and some will not and they  will learn the hard way themselves. I have had a couple experiences like that myself  :wink:

That is only an 8" bowl  and I have turned lots bigger when I had my little 1220  Jet Mini Lathe  but it takes a lot longer with those small lathes with their  fractional HP  motors. . That is why they call them mini lathes . For turning mini items  :biggrin: even though bigger items  can be turned on them  in a round about sort of way and is pushing them way past what they were originally designed for. . 

But OH man . . . what a whale  of   diifference it makes on my 2 HP 18 x 47 lathe . Tons of power for a bowl that size with the three phase motor.  . The lathe is just playing with a  8"  bowl like that right from start to finish. I put it in low range  (0 to 1200) for roughing out bowls and for most everything else I put it in the  higher 0 to 3200 range. I have only turned a few 16 to 17" diameter turnings on it so far but it didn't fizz on the power any more on them   than on this one that I roughed out just before supper tonight.


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## Fred (Sep 7, 2010)

Ain't it grand what one can find that Mother Nature has hidden inside what appears to be a miserable chunk of semi-rotten wood.

Very, very nice bowl, William. You should be proud of this one and all those soon to follow.


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## robutacion (Sep 7, 2010)

> I don't mind at all . We both know that some will heed the info and some will not and they  will learn the hard way themselves. I have had a couple experiences like that myself  :wink:



I don't think that will be a single  woodturner out there, that hasn't experience some of those moments, the one way or another...!  sometimes is just nothing anyone can do, and that is the reason its called an accident! sure, it makes the provabilities in your favor considerably, when safety is part of the routine...!:wink:

You are so right, I only have 1.5hp on my 1624-44 Nova and at one time I wished I had twice that much, on a twice as heavy and stable lathe also.

Is no fun seeing your lathe go for a walk-about with a chunk of wood spinning in it, faster than what you would like, particularly when you can't reach for the stop switch or power point...!:redface::beat-up:  

No wonder why, strong recommendations are made to include a couple of pair of jocks/boxers/undies with the woodturners handy kit...!:biggrin:

Cheers
George


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## Skye (Sep 7, 2010)

Very nice wood! This is the effect known as 'flaming', right?


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## Steve Busey (Sep 7, 2010)

Skye said:


> This is the effect known as 'flaming', right?



I'm not sure, but I think there may be another forum for that!


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## Steve Busey (Sep 7, 2010)

Great gloat, William - that's some beautiful looking wood!


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## W.Y. (Sep 7, 2010)

I am not sure if it is called flaming or not. 
I am familiar with what flamed maple looks like  but is all shades of   one color so I don't really think flaming is the right name for it . .
If someone here knows the correct term for it I hope they will post it so we will all know.
I have just called it red streaks  or markings  through the wood up to this point.


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## W.Y. (Sep 8, 2010)

I roughed out  three more bowls from that same log today.
Left to right is  7" ,  8" , and 10" .
The ten inch one   is going to need some filling in  of  some voids around the rim  but it has some beautiful burl pattern in it.
All three of those are now soaking in about 1.5 gallons  of  DNA.

When I band sawed the edges off those pieces before mounting them on the lathe I got a bunch of gorgeous  burl pen blanks


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## Red Coin (Sep 11, 2010)

I believe that red stain develops after an injury to the box elder tree...sort like bleeding!  And since this species is prone to breaking up so easily, there are lots of opportunities for red streaks.

 dee


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## W.Y. (Sep 14, 2010)

Red Coin said:


> I believe that red stain develops after an injury to the box elder tree...sort like bleeding!  And since this species is prone to breaking up so easily, there are lots of opportunities for red streaks.
> 
> dee



Thanks Dee.
Sorry for the late response. 
I have been busier than a cat on a hot tin roof .

I even forgot those three  and left them in the DNA for well over 48 hours but that won't hurt them and they are now wrapped and drying. Should be ready to final turn in a couple weeks.


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## W.Y. (Sep 20, 2010)

Well I got around to seeing if this one could be saved. When  I put it on the lathe and started turning it was very evident that the separation between layers of wood originated  while it was still in the log form. 
I soaked CA into that area several times  hoping it would prevent it from flying apart on the lathe. Carefully turned it and added CA as necessary.
Was quite pleased with the way it turned out . .

Thanks again  to Bruce (gofer) for loading up my van with seven big heavy logs of that wood when I visited him in Invermere. It took both him and his brother to lift them in but I was able to drag them out myself to start chain sawing them into manageable weight pieces when I got home . 

Here is a sneak preview with just a couple coats of  semi gloss lacquer . I will let that cure for a day and then sand it and apply a couple more coats . After that is cured I will use the Beal buffer on it.


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## robutacion (Sep 20, 2010)

It would be just phenomenal if those red strikes stay as they are, and don't lose their "brightness", just beautiful stuff...!

How many days was that, since you first rough turned them...???

Nicely done so far...!

Cheers
George


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## W.Y. (Sep 20, 2010)

robutacion said:


> It would be just phenomenal if those red strikes stay as they are, and don't lose their "brightness", just beautiful stuff...!
> 
> How many days was that, since you first rough turned them...???
> 
> ...



The original pictures on page one show that it was rough turned from juicy green wood on Sept 6  so that makes it about 13 days from start to finish  using the DNA method. A couple weeks is average time depending on type of wood.

This is where my concern was . The log had an inherent crack in it before ever mounting it on the lathe   as shown by the arrows  .I only continued because of the coloring and a few small burls in the piece  . I wasn't sure if I would be able to save it but it turned out OK.


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## philb (Sep 20, 2010)

Great looking wood!

Do you have any more info on your method of drying? How wet was it too start with?

As Ive only ever seen people turn them down and leave for 6 months to dry?

PHIL


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## markgum (Sep 20, 2010)

beautiful wood.  Now does that 'red' streak stay or does if fade over time?  (apologies for a newbie question.)


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## rjwolfe3 (Sep 20, 2010)

Man that is gorgeous. I too hope the red stays bright!


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## W.Y. (Sep 20, 2010)

philbaldwin said:


> Great looking wood!
> 
> Do you have any more info on your method of drying? How wet was it too start with?
> 
> ...



Phil.
There have been many discussions on the various methods of drying green wood bowls on my Woodworking Friends site . The DNA method is my particular preference after trying all of the others. 
On this particular bowl  the discussion  from start to finish  with pictures and weight measurements and how to soak and then wrap it  etc  etc  are into its third page and ongoing. It would be too time consuming to copy and past all of that information here. 
Send me a PM or a email and I will direct you to it.


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## W.Y. (Sep 20, 2010)

[quote="markgum, post: 1094338"]beautiful wood.  Now does that 'red' streak stay or does if fade over time?  (apologies for a newbie question.)[/QUOTE]

Mark.
I have been told that it will fade if exposed to ultra violet rays . I have only made a few small items with box elder before getting this bunch of big logs  of  it and they have held their color. It could vary from one log to another . I have been told it will fade if in the dark or in normal indooor lighting or in bright sunlight. It will be a wait and see situation  on this one but I will make sure it is never left in the sun.

I was also told basically the same thing with a bunch of padauk bowls and platters I made about a year ago. Some said the nice redish orange color would turn to dark brown. So far they look the same as when I made them under normal indoor lighting with no sun.
Here is an example of a platter on a pedestal from that bunch . This one is 12" diameter.

[IMG]https://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1620/1718813/22944146/382315458.jpg


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## W.Y. (Sep 22, 2010)

Got this one finished off today and put away for pre Christmas craft sales. .
Three coats of Minwax Tung Oil Finish.
That particular finish starts off dull and the shine increases with each consecutive coat . I stopped at three because this is about the amount of shine I wanted on this one. without adding any more which would cause a high gloss  glare.  I actually prefer a high gloss on certain items but I think this one best shows the wood rather than than amount of shine by keeping it at about the semi gloss level.


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## W.Y. (Oct 6, 2010)

These are the ones that came out of the DNA  about three weeks ago. They were juicy green to start with and were actually ready to final turn after two weeks but it has been crazy busy around here with friends and relatives visiting  and lots of outdoor work to get dome but I did manage a few shop hours to final turn and finish these three that were shown here earlier .

The smaller ones are finished with tung oil but I didn't care for the way it darkened the wood . I wanted to keep the large one  to it's own natural color so I used lacquer on that one.


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## spnemo (Oct 6, 2010)

In my area we call box elder with this red figure "Flame Box Elder."  The red streaking will fade to almost nothing if exposed to sunlight.  There is another type of red streaking that is caused by a fungus - this spalting will not fade.


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## W.Y. (Oct 6, 2010)

spnemo said:


> In my area we call box elder with this red figure "Flame Box Elder."  The red streaking will fade to almost nothing if exposed to sunlight.  There is another type of red streaking that is caused by a fungus - this spalting will not fade.



Yes, I agree Sean .
That is the sad part of that flame box elder . I always tell my customers to keep it away from sunlight and it does hold its color for many years but eventually fades. 
Interesting how some woods are affected by sunlight . I always tell my customers that bright reddish orange  padauk will also  turn brown in the  sun as will red  figured juniper wood but on the other hand , when purpleheart goes brown I tell them to put it in sunlight to make it purple again.
Cherry is another one that starts out light color and gradualy darkens over the years although it doesn't go brown but more of a red wine color.
It is all  a case of mother nature doing her thing and  testing us to see how we can overcome it  :biggrin:


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