# tap & die size?



## woodchip (Jan 10, 2009)

The local hardware store is going out of business and i was curious what size tap and die set is used in the cutting of the threads? I'm not up to the caliber of it yet but would like to see if i could get a deal on a set when i am. Thanks


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## pipecrafter (Jan 10, 2009)

Smart-Alec remark - They all are!

Seriously though, it depends on what threads you're cutting.  If you want to use El Grande nibs, M10x1 is the way to go.  I like to use a 1/2-32 for caps.


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## woodchip (Jan 10, 2009)

Smart-Alec remark - They all are!

Did i miss something? Thanks for the info. on the sizes.


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## GouletPens (Jan 11, 2009)

I've never done threading myself, but when speaking to a pen maker who has, he said that triple threads are the fine ones you see on most pens, and a set of dyes with triple threads wil run in the $300 range!!! You can do it with a double thread, but it won't have that fine, smooth threading like on the barons or el grandes.


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## pipecrafter (Jan 11, 2009)

Triple start threads give you a bunch of fine threads to hold the cap securely without needing to make 4 or 5 turns to attach the cap or take it off.  That's about the only benefit.

If you want a smooth feeling while screwing or unscrewing the cap, I suggest using delrin or acetal for the female threads.  It gives a smooth buttery feel.  It also increases the time investment, however, and can limit the design of the pen in certain circumstances due to needing a delrin sleeve in the cap.


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## cnirenberg (Jan 12, 2009)

I just started busting blanks with the tap and die. Everything you need to know is located within this forum.  As far as getting certain sizes, yeah I asked that question too,  I went to HF and got their set for about 20$ that included the M1.0x1 tap that Kurt suggested, and am using the 1/2 x 20 that came with it for the cap and barrel sections.  I am in the process of upgrading sizes, just like someone predicted (thanks George).


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## pipecrafter (Jan 12, 2009)

One of these days I'll manage to be able to afford a multi-start tap, but it just wasn't in the cards for this last group buy.  In the meantime, if you use 1/2"-32 threads, you get a really fine thread that looks nice, and you can tune it so that you only have to twist a few times to get a good grab - I like about 4-4.5 twists (not full turns).


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## btboone (Jan 12, 2009)

For the price of one of the expensive triple lead taps, you can buy a small metal turning lathe and make them yourself. They work fine in plastic or brass.


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## kirkfranks (Jan 17, 2009)

btboone said:


> For the price of one of the expensive triple lead taps, you can buy a small metal turning lathe and make them yourself. They work fine in plastic or brass.


 
Now that is thinking outside of the box:good:


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## Glenn McCullough (Jan 19, 2009)

Bruce,
     can you recommend a couple of those metal lathes to compare features and pricing?
    Also, what acessories/ tooling is needed to do this and how much extra should one plan on investing?




btboone said:


> For the price of one of the expensive triple lead taps, you can buy a small metal turning lathe and make them yourself. They work fine in plastic or brass.


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## Daniel (Jan 19, 2009)

Glenn, as far as I know there is really only one mini metal lathe. Seriously, it is sold under several names by many places but they are all made int he same place by the same manufacturer. it is the same lathe you can buy at Harbor Freight in the 7X12 mini lathe. if you go one step up in size you then have a few manufacturers to choose from.
I have the 7X12 but did not buy it from HF. I have the Homier Speedway version. it was actually lower cost.

make the jump up to the 9X?? and you start getting options that come with lots of the extras. these are actually much better deals than the lowest cost 7X12 because all those extras become very expensive in short order. I know from experience.
Just keep in mind that metal turning is a whole different animal. it is more charts graphs and math than actual turning. you sort of set the machine up the way the books tell you to turn it on and watch it work. pretty nifty at first but becomes easy to let your mind wonder after a while.


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## pipecrafter (Jan 19, 2009)

Daniel said:
			
		

> Just keep in mind that metal turning is a whole different animal. it is more charts graphs and math than actual turning. you sort of set the machine up the way the books tell you to turn it on and watch it work. pretty nifty at first but becomes easy to let your mind wonder after a while.



I tend to leave the automated stuff alone, and do most of my shaping via the etch-a-sketch method.  I feel like I have more control that way - and since I'm not really looking for super high precision....



			
				oobak said:
			
		

> can you recommend a couple of those metal lathes to compare features and pricing?
> Also, what acessories/ tooling is needed to do this and how much extra should one plan on investing?



As Daniel said, the mini metal lathes are pretty much identical.  Some may have more accessories, like knurling tools or carbide cutters, but they're  going to all be the same machine.  

That said, if you're looking for opinions, I'd stay clear of those 7x12 lathes.  I used one at a friends house and it was an absolute nightmare to keep working.  Various screws and blts kept backing out, the gibs wouldn't stay in adjustment, and the longitudinal feed and cross slide came out of the box with severe lash.  Several hundred miles away another freind reported the same experience with the one he bought.  Personally, I wouldn't even give one a second look - but that's just my opinion.  I know others will disagree.

Step up to the 9x20 range, and you end up with a much more capable machine - though there are lemons there as well, it's just harder to get a really bad lathe.


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## BRobbins629 (Jan 19, 2009)

Some thoughts on the smaller (7 x 12) and larger metal lathes.

7 x 12 (I own one of these)
Pros: For the past 2 years or so, I have used this exclusively to make all my pens, bushings, pin chucks, centerbands, finials, in wood, plastic, wax and silver. Using taps and dies for the threaded sections I have and continue to make mostly kitless pens on this.  It is a great machine to learn on, poses less danger than the larger machines, and maintains its value (try to find one used - they are difficult to come by). In addition it has a small footprint, accessories are readily available and the cost is not too outrageous for what it does.  A little reasearch on the internet will show that some pretty sophisticated parts have been produced on these.  With the expection of the pens that are made with CNC mills, I haven't seen a pen on this forum that couldn't be made on one of these.

Cons: While this machine is very capable of cutting threads, even multi start ones, changing gears is a little inconvenient.  There are a few parts that need an occasional adjustment, but I have found this to be more of a learning experience than a burden.

Larger machines: As with anything else, it is always nice to have an upgraded machine with better adjustments.  The biggest advantage of a more expensive machine would be a gear box that adjusts the feed rate with a few handle adjustments without physically changing gears.  This would only be needed for threading.


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## btboone (Jan 19, 2009)

Buy the biggest one you can afford at the time.  You won't regret it later.  It's something you'll have the rest of your life, and it will have all of that time to recoup some cost.  It can also be sold if you get in a bind.  With tools, start off slow and keep adding stuff.  Again, you'll always have it so it pays to get carbide insert tooling if you can get past the initial purchase.


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