# PMC Centerbands



## Texatdurango (Mar 12, 2008)

Last week I took a lesson in using PMC and tried a clip which turned out to not be strong enough and was a big let down.

But centerbands... that's another story! 

Today I made and fired a PMC silver centerband for a new pen I'm working on and it turned out great (at least in my opinion)!

Here 'tis, at noon today that center band was just a wad of clay!


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## jhs494 (Mar 12, 2008)

Very very nice. You have come up with many solutions. The PMC CB turned out great. Have you given any more thought about the clip?
It seems to be the last piece to your puzzle.
On the pen shown, What clip have you used?

Thanks for sharing this with us.


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## Stevej72 (Mar 12, 2008)

The center band turned out great, very nice looking pen.


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## igran7 (Mar 12, 2008)

Absolutely beautiful work.  The centerband looks amazing.


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## Texatdurango (Mar 12, 2008)

> _Originally posted by jhs494_
> 
> ...Have you given any more thought about the clip?
> It seems to be the last piece to your puzzle.
> On the pen shown, What clip have you used?


Right now I haven't given any more thought to clips.  For the time being I've got several hundred kits of all types and I'm perfectly content with robbing clips from the kits.  

This clip is from an Atlas pen and when you think of it, catching this kit on sale for $3.50 or so isn't a bad price for a clip!


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## jhs494 (Mar 12, 2008)

I found a company that carries just clips. I signed up for their catalog a few days ago, who knows how long until it shows up. Could be a complete waste of time. The name is on my laptop at work.

From their website I noticed a lot of the clips with the teeth that get pressed into the plastic, but I did see some that caught my interest, they could be used under the cap, and possibly  a slot could be cut and screwed into from inside.


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## pipeyeti (Mar 12, 2008)

Very nice George!


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## pipeyeti (Mar 12, 2008)

What part of the cap contacts the pen body when posted? One of the things I noticed yesterday at the pen shop was that on many of the pens I examined. The threads were not what contacted the body but they had a step drilled cap as we talked about the other day. So the second step is what was in contact with the body. Hope thats clear? That way the threads were not being stressed when the cap was posted.


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## Texatdurango (Mar 12, 2008)

> _Originally posted by pipeyeti_
> 
> What part of the cap contacts the pen body when posted? One of the things I noticed yesterday at the pen shop was that on many of the pens I examined. The threads were not what contacted the body but they had a step drilled cap as we talked about the other day. So the second step is what was in contact with the body. Hope thats clear? That way the threads were not being stressed when the cap was posted.


My cap only slides over the lower body abot 3/4" and the first step is farther back than that so I'm resting on the threads... barely!

Joe, I hope that clip company wasn't Ideal metal!  I just got some sample clips from them and although am thankful for them sending me the samples, they were not suitable for our handcrafted pens.  Bics perhaps but not ours!


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## jhs494 (Mar 12, 2008)

I am not sure of the company name it is at work on my laptop. I will check it out tomorrow.


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## jhs494 (Mar 12, 2008)

I wish that one of the kit manufacturers would step up and realize that there is a market for there components as well as complete kits.
Maybe they could offer some higher end components not found on the normal kit.


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## alamocdc (Mar 12, 2008)

I love it, George! Fine job. I gotta find me one of them classes.


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## Neodon1 (Mar 12, 2008)

I agree, case in point, the Classic Cigar Pen kit.
It is not worth your time, yet begs to be mated with 
a beautiful blank. From plain but elegant Gaboon  Gabon,
to your wildest imagination. This would, if made from
TN or Platinum be a really nice kit. Thus it is garbage
and not worthy of such a pen blank sacrifice.

I wish the companies would take a survey from their main 
distributors and cater more to the clients (us), that support
and help to sustain their  market and business.

Thanks
NeoDon1 [8D]


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## aurrida (Mar 13, 2008)

very nice george, you must feel quite chuffed as we say would say back home. i thinks it looks great.  

its a great leap forward. i am really looking forward to seeing what you come up with next. 

incidentally, any idea how much your going to charge for it?

p.s. make one in black for me.


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## jhs494 (Mar 13, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Texatdurango_
> 
> 
> Joe, I hope that clip company wasn't Ideal metal!  I just got some sample clips from them and although am thankful for them sending me the samples, they were not suitable for our handcrafted pens.  Bics perhaps but not ours!


Tex, The company was Ideal.. I guess the search continues.


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## jrc (Mar 13, 2008)

If you are interested PMC go to Google Videos and Utube and search PMC Clay. There are a few projects that will give you a good idea how it works.


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## Monty (Mar 13, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Neodon1_
> 
> I agree, case in point, the Classic Cigar Pen kit.
> It is not worth your time, yet begs to be mated with
> ...



PSI has a cigar in Black Tn and in Pt/Rh http://www.pennstateind.com/catalog/p/019.htm
as does CSUSA
http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/s...nt_Pen_Kits___Cigar_Pen_Kit___cigar_pen?Args=
as does Berea, (black Tn)
http://www.bereahardwoods.com/price/kits/7mm_bl_titanium_3.cfm#2


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## dbriski (Mar 13, 2008)

For the Clip would it be possible to inbed a wire or 2 of a stronger metal to strengthen it.  Just like you put rebar in concreat to mate the 2 properties, Concreate has great compression strength and poor tensil strengh, but steel rebar had great tensil strength.


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## thewishman (Mar 13, 2008)

Very nice work, the centerband is simple yet classy. Thanks for sharing the results of your experiments!

Chris


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## tnilmerl (Mar 13, 2008)

Wow!  Great work.  Since a read a blurb awhile back on the PMC silver, I've been researching and gathering my pennies for my own kiln.

Sorry for being a little late to the game, but it appears that you cut your own threads on the pen body.  Have you shared how you did this.  I go hunting thru the archives if you've already shared that.  If not, wanna clue me in on how you did it?


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## R2 (Mar 13, 2008)

That has finished up really well! Congratulations!


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## Texatdurango (Mar 13, 2008)

> _Originally posted by tnilmerl_
> 
> Wow!  Great work.  Since a read a blurb awhile back on the PMC silver, I've been researching and gathering my pennies for my own kiln.


Travis, I just got into using the PMC and to date have only spent around $200 on supplies which includes a good bit of clay.  I too thought I would have to buy a $500 - $700 kiln but so far have made all my parts using the PMC3, placing it on a brick and firing it with a mini torch.

It takes about 5 - 7 minutes and the torch cost me $20 and the small butane bottles cost $2.  I fired four pieces on one charge of butane which probably used a third of the can meaning this is a dirt cheap method compared to the cost of a kiln.

As far as instructions, there aren't any, just that I used a tap and die.  Pretty straight forward but you do need to work out which size bits to use to match the style of pen you want to make.  There was a recent group buy in the group buy forum where these items were discussed quite a bit.


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## GaryMGg (Mar 13, 2008)

George,
I love what you're doing! [8D]



> _Originally posted by Neodon1_
> 
> ...I wish the companies would take a survey from their main
> distributors and cater more to the clients (us), that support
> and help to sustain their  market and business.


I had a very confidential discussion with a manufacturer/owner. We do NOT represent the bulk of the pen making, thus pen buying, market.
We -- members of this and the other main online pen forums -- are a fairly insignificant portion of the overall market WRT business volume.


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## Texatdurango (Mar 13, 2008)

> _Originally posted by GaryMGg_
> 
> 
> I had a very confidential discussion with a manufacturer/owner. We do NOT represent the bulk of the pen making, thus pen buying, market.
> We -- members of this and the other main online pen forums -- are a fairly insignificant portion of the overall market WRT business volume.


And if you doubt that, try calling a company that makes clips like I did.  When you see a style you like ask for their prices including quatity discounts... AND don't be shocked when they come back with... "Our 10% discount starts with 100,000 pieces.  you heard it right, 100,000!  Minimum order is 1000 pieces and may be subject to a "small order" surcharge!


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## DCBluesman (Mar 13, 2008)

How important are we in the pen making world?  Well, BIC sells 14 million BIC Crystal pens PER DAY!


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## rixstix (Mar 13, 2008)

If all your going to do is small PMC objects, a PMC beehive kiln 




is nothing fancy but is less than $152.  There's also a small PMC kiln 




that even has an analog pyrometer that uses propane fuel for $140.


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## Johnathan (Mar 14, 2008)

Looks great! I have some but haven't got around to playing with it yet. Keep the good ideas coming!


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## tnilmerl (Mar 14, 2008)

Texatdurango,

You say you use a butane torch.  Does it generate sufficient heat?  My understanding is that you need a hotter flame than what butane creates.  Are you use MAPP gas (green bottle)?  Thanks on the tap-n-die info.  Boy, you go away for a couple of months to work, when you come back you sure miss a lot.  Still doing catch-up.

I found a small kiln for around $150.  That's what I shooting for.  Just got to get it past the budget committee .

Hope this forum sticks around. I want to transcend to ordinary into the elite....


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## Texatdurango (Mar 14, 2008)

> _Originally posted by tnilmerl_
> 
> Texatdurango,
> 
> ...


Travis, Every PMC supply site I visited sells the butane torches, I used one in my first PMC class, I bought one and have fired several items so far including the two centerbands below and have yet to deplete one $2.00 can of butane!  I think I would talk to someone about $20 torches other than someone who is trying to sell you a kiln!






Here is a torch similar to mine, and yes they can get hot enough!  The silver glows bright orange after about 40 seconds and it takes about 6 minutes to fire a centerband.


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## leehljp (Mar 14, 2008)

AS far as a kiln is concerned, I am going to check out the hundreds of small ceramic hibachi's available when I get back to Japan at the end of the month. I have a couple of the PMC kits that I bought two years ago but never had the time to use it.

Great post, George!


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## tnilmerl (Mar 17, 2008)

Great advice. Thanks for the info.


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## workinforwood (Mar 17, 2008)

I like the centerband, but it lacks any flare.  It needs a groove in it.  You could cut a groove and fill the groove with epoxy or inlace.

My clip idea would be to take the clip you desire and grind the loop off it.  Spin a piece of wood that will be the end of the cap, lets just call it 1/2 long.  Cut a piece of wood 3/8 long, just a hair shorter and shape it to fit on the side of the cap piece.  It should be thin like a toothpick.  Glue your clip piece to this toothpick like piece.  Now cast this assembly into your molding clay stuff.  The idea is that the clip has a 3/8 length of attachment that will give it more strength for the up pull of a shirt pocket.  a typical metal clip has far less, but this isn't typical metal.  I like the idea of adding "rebar" as well.  Metal may not be necessary, just a piece of no wax dental floss, something like that which would be the fiberglass stranding in your concrete.

I hope you follow that.  Is it a good idea, I don't know, that's for you to play with.  It's a similar idea to the guy that makes the wooden clips on his big wood pens, only you would be making yours much finer.  You could still have a hole through it too, so you can have more wood on top.


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## Texatdurango (Mar 17, 2008)

> _Originally posted by workinforwood_
> 
> I like the centerband, but it lacks any flare.  It needs a groove in it.  You could cut a groove and fill the groove with epoxy or inlace.


My intent was simplicity with the navy and silver but making changes is academic now, I had a photo of it in a Yahoo PMC forum, someone saw it, emailed me about it and bought it.  Woohoo, I guess I'll go make another one


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## Palmetto_Dave (Mar 17, 2008)

I am just a bit familiar with PMC, and silver work... Did you use a burnishing tool to roll the edge down over the bottom of the cap?


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## Texatdurango (Mar 17, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Palmetto_Dave_
> 
> I am just a bit familiar with PMC, and silver work... Did you use a burnishing tool to roll the edge down over the bottom of the cap?


No, I just turned it with my skew.


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## Palmetto_Dave (Mar 18, 2008)

One more question... Did you have to make adjustments for shrinkage during firing?


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## Texatdurango (Mar 18, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Palmetto_Dave_
> 
> One more question... Did you have to make adjustments for shrinkage during firing?


Yes and the shrinkage tates are very accurate


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## thompenshop (Mar 30, 2008)

> _Originally posted by jhs494_
> 
> I wish that one of the kit manufacturers would step up and realize that there is a market for there components as well as complete kits.
> Maybe they could offer some higher end components not found on the normal kit.



Joe I have found Jim Husinger at Berea to be very helpful when I have called him and ask him to send me just clips. Admittedly, it has probably been two or three years since I have purchased clips form him but he would send me 50-100 at a time. I am especially interested since he is importing clips with higher quality plating these days. He has also told me, in the past, that he has contacts overseas for many more clips that have never appeared in any of the kits that he imports. Perhaps he would be interested if one of us who knows him on a first name basis would be willing to call him and tell him that we have a group of individuals who are interested in component parts. It would probably need to be someone who has frequent contact with him. I am not that person, altho he also is a vintage fountain pen collector and shows up at some of the national shows from time to time. The problem for him will be "how many million do we want?"


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