# Woodturners Finish vs CA



## Chrisjan (Jul 15, 2014)

Hi folks, it's been awhile since I posted... 
I got hold of a pint of Woodturners Finish and wanted to compare it to a CA finish - there is no way that I get the same glossy finish with the WTF as with CA...

1. Wiped it on while spinning in several layers with plenty drying time in between... Shined dullish with swirl marks - tried to MM, but causes a milky sticky substance almost ruining my MM pads.

Next piece
2. Wiped a single layer on and sanded back after it dried with 400 grit. Applied some more layers with cloth while lathe is stationary and then spun till dry to the touch before next layer. Left it for a week and tried to buff - turned dull.

Next piece
3. Started with a wet WTF cloth and wiped it on while spinning, adding more WTF until it stays wet (saturated I presume). Then rapidly wiping up and down with the wet cloth until friction and spinning causes a bit of a shine. Used a soft dry cloth to try and polish up but did not achieve a CA gloss.

Any other suggestions? 

I would really like to get an alternative to CA for finishing Tamboti, Blackwood  and Kameeldoring in the same gloss than CA. The CA finish cracks and peels within a month - I think its due to the high oil content. 

Next experiment is a layer of WTF on the sanded wood and CA on top if I can avoid the swirl marks


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## monophoto (Jul 15, 2014)

Chrisjan

I've had good success with gloss polyurethane.  If allowed to cure thoroughly, it can be buffed with MM and plastic polishes, and will have a shine similar to CA.  And it's also very durable.  The waterborn variety is a bit easier to apply, but it's natural color is a bluish-white that doesn't work well with all woods.  The solvent-based variety tends to amber, but it takes a bit more effort to apply.  Here's an extended dialog on polyurethanes - http://www.penturners.org/forum/f28/polyurethane-121882/.

However, you mentioned that you are working with oily woods - and that presents a special problem.  You might try first wiping the raw (sanded) wood with a solvent such as DNA, and then applying a coat or two of a shellac-based sanding sealer.  Sand lightly to remove any raised grain, and then apply the finish over that.  The sanding sealer will prevent the oils in the wood from interfering with the final finish.


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## Band Saw Box (Jul 15, 2014)

I've been using WTF for some time now an I love the finish I get. I use paper towels (select a size) and use half a sheet I fold it up until it about 3/4' wide. I put 3 to 4 drop of WTF and with my lathe turning at about 700 RPM I wipe it on left to right then right to left. I let it dry for about a minute then use four more drop this time right to left then left to right. I do this until I have 5 coats. I let this dry for about 5 minutes then lightly sand with 3600 MM. I put on another 5 coats and let this try for about an hour and again lightly sand with 3600 MM I add 5 to 10 coats more. After 24 hours I buff with 6000, 8000, 12000 MM. Many people here have ask if my finish was CA. Below is on of my pens with WTF finish.


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## Jim Burr (Jul 15, 2014)

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f28/pen-finishes-124308/index2.html
http://www.penturners.org/forum/f28/maximizing-pens-plus-finish-123834/
http://www.penturners.org/forum/f28/video-wood-turners-finish-121356/
http://content.penturners.org/library/techniques/cafinish1.pdf

Several more in the Library and under Search of course.


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## kenmic (Jul 15, 2014)

Dan's (Band Saw Box) method of applying WTF works. Use his steps as described. The drying times are important, especially overnight. Also, do not skip his leveling/smoothing step with 3600 MM every 5 coats. Note that he does not sand the last 5-10 coats before drying overnight. My suggestion to eliminate swirls would be to apply the WTF with the lathe off. Manually advance the mandrel or dead center while smoothing out the drops then dry 1 minute with lathe on. For polishing, I have been having some success using Woodcraft Polaris 4 step polish, McGuire's Plast X, and Hut Ultragloss instead of MM for final polishing. Try Dan's method first, then experiment if you like. As Dan pointed out, it may not duplicate CA exactly but it comes close enough without all the smell and consequent aggravation.


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## Dan Masshardt (Jul 15, 2014)

Wtf sounds like as much of an ordeal as ca when done right to get a nice finish.


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## Woodo (Jul 17, 2014)

I have been told recently to look for and try Flexible CA glue.  I am told it is more friendly for pens.  Has anyone used it, and what manufacturer/ product should i be looking for.

Most of my pens are Olive Wood, which is quite oily, even using many of the pieces i have which are dry "cut into blanks", 20-30 years ago.

I work in Israel, my workshop is always warm / hot, and even with my air-conditioning running i never go below 75F.

thanks


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## Old Codger (Jul 17, 2014)

I'm with Dan...  I REALLY like General Finishes Wood Turners Finish for pens and have been quite pleased with it especially when compared to CA...  CA is great except for the dangerous fumes, quick and unforgiving drying times, bubbles, etc.  I've switched to GFWTF and won't go back...  I have to admit, I haven't used it on larger projects like boxes, bowls, etc. but will post results once I have but at this time, I don't expect a problem although for those projects I do like wipe on poly...  Comments???  Safe turning to all!


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## ed4copies (Jul 17, 2014)

Years ago, to "do it right", we used Lacquer, usually spray on, on the lathe.  Drying COULD take days.  But, it was considered the way to protect "high-value wood furniture".  

One thing I have never seen---the BEST finish---FAST!!  But, you are welcome to fantasize!!:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

Woodturners finish can be applied in about 10 minutes.  I STRONGLY recommend waiting 24 hours for it to cure before polishing---but waiting time is time you CAN be doing other things!!!


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## Signguy (Jul 17, 2014)

How do you guys think it compares to pens plus?


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## Dan Masshardt (Jul 17, 2014)

Signguy said:


> How do you guys think it compares to pens plus?



Pens plus is a different category of finish.  In my opinion it is superior to the other friction finishes. For the time being, it is my go to wood finish.   

Another finish similar in application and result to wtf is craft coat.   In my (limited) experience, I like craft coat better than wtf.  

Ca is still one of the nicest finished results.


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## Peter Durand (Jul 18, 2014)

Band Saw Box said:


> I've been using WTF for some time now an I love the finish I get. I use paper towels (select a size) and use half a sheet I fold it up until it about 3/4' wide. I put 3 to 4 drop of WTF and with my lathe turning at about 700 RPM I wipe it on left to right then right to left. I let it dry for about a minute then use four more drop this time right to left then left to right. I do this until I have 5 coats. I let this dry for about 5 minutes then lightly sand with 3600 MM. I put on another 5 coats and let this try for about an hour and again lightly sand with 3600 MM I add 5 to 10 coats more. After 24 hours I buff with 6000, 8000, 12000 MM. Many people here have ask if my finish was CA. Below is on of my pens with WTF finish.



Hi,

I am quite new to pen turning and want to learn as much as I can. So far I have determined that finishing a wood pen is quite different than other materials (duh!). For what its worth here is a Tru Stone for a fountain pen I made yesterday. After turning I sanded to 12000 grit. Then did 5 applications of Ultra Shine and the 5 applications of Renaissance wax, polishing each time with a paper towel.

I like the end result and was wondering if I should have done something different.



Thanks,

Peter


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## jondavidj (Jul 18, 2014)

Hi Peter, 

I love turning trustone. These are the steps that I do. I have been getting good shines and finishes. Some I discovered just by experimenting.

Before using micro Mesh pads, I will use the Novus scratch removal.  Both for fine and rough scratches.  I sand down using all of the MM.  Once I finish, I use the 4 step Turning Polish from Woodcraft. It is different sets of polish. After I apply the first, I use a rag. I get the 12000 MM pad again. Move to second bottle and repeat to the end. I know it sounds like it takes a long time, but it really doesn't. I am still having issues with my acrylics. I cannot seem to get rid of those small hairline scratches. I followed instructions on this site, but for some reason, I still haven't mastered that yet, so I turn trustone a lot.


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## Dan Masshardt (Jul 18, 2014)

Not to be rude at all guys, but what does tru-stone have to do with wtf vs ca?


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## Peter Durand (Jul 18, 2014)

Dan Masshardt said:


> Not to be rude at all guys, but what does tru-stone have to do with wtf vs ca?



I was simply looking for advise.


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## Dan Masshardt (Jul 18, 2014)

Peter Durand said:


> I was simply looking for advise.



It's a nice looking pen - the pic is a little dark though.  You should post some in show off your pens.  

Also, there have been some recent threads on finishing tru-stone that you might find helpful.


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## Peter Durand (Jul 18, 2014)

Dan Masshardt said:


> Peter Durand said:
> 
> 
> > I was simply looking for advise.
> ...



Since this was a CA and WTF thread I wondered if it would be appropriate to TruStone.


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## Dan Masshardt (Jul 18, 2014)

Peter Durand said:


> Since this was a CA and WTF thread I wondered if it would be appropriate to TruStone.



That is a good question    I believe the answer is no   Tru-stone (and various resins) don't need a finish put on them   Instead they get polished by various methods   

I doubt you'd find anybody who would recommend putting either of these finishes on tru stone


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## Chrisjan (Jul 22, 2014)

I wish I could get my hands on Trustone to try it...


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## BSea (Jul 22, 2014)

Chrisjan said:


> I wish I could get my hands on Trustone to try it...


Can't you buy it online & have it shipped?


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## sschering (Jul 22, 2014)

Crawling out of the wood work here.

I like to use WTF and CA together. Especially when I'm direct dying wood with alumilite dyes. WTF can pull out and remove dye so you can get some good control of how deep you want to go with the dye color. The odd thing after coming in contact with the dye WTF won't polish up or build up well.. It always drys to a mat finish even when re coating days later. I have to finish dyed pens with CA.

also 

I find that some woods get a nice depth to the grain with the yellow oil finish look you get with WTF where CA just leaves it flat and lifeless.

In those cases I'll put 4-5 coats of WTF down and let dry then go back with CA for the glossy finish.

I've tried but I just can't master the WTF only finish.

My CA of choice is Mercury Thin CA. The stuff goes on like glass and sets up nicely.


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## George Locker (Nov 2, 2018)

First time I have tried this site and find comments very interesting.You all seem to be in the USA and I am here in England !For a number of years I have used Rustons Plastic Coating which I understand is used  on many working surfaces. A bit like epoxy but ratio of mix is 4 : 1. I apply four coats and then leave until next day. I then sand with 1000 grit to remove all shine then polish with Burnishing cream. Friends all like the finish to but just recently I have one or two pens which show whitish streaks in the wood grain which shows up after at least one week and I can't see what I am doing to cause this. Can anyone offer some advice as I am having to either take the pens apart or destroy the turned section. I am just an old man now (89) so maybe my eyesight has gone ! Kind regards.  GEORGE


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## philipff (Nov 2, 2018)

Turn fast and Hard and you will see a shine!  In my experience, that is what it takes.


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## leehljp (Nov 2, 2018)

George Locker said:


> First time I have tried this site and find comments very interesting.You all seem to be in the USA and I am here in England !For a number of years I have used Rustons Plastic Coating which I understand is used  on many working surfaces. A bit like epoxy but ratio of mix is 4 : 1. I apply four coats and then leave until next day. I then sand with 1000 grit to remove all shine then polish with Burnishing cream. Friends all like the finish to but just recently I have one or two pens which show whitish streaks in the wood grain which shows up after at least one week and I can't see what I am doing to cause this. Can anyone offer some advice as I am having to either take the pens apart or destroy the turned section. I am just an old man now (89) so maybe my eyesight has gone ! Kind regards.  GEORGE



Yes, most are from the USA but have many from many countries also. Several from Great Britain.

As to your white streaks - could be a few different causes but generally this is either sanding dust or moisture. Sanding dust shows up almost immediately. Moisture can show up days later. Cleaning some wood by wiping with alcohol does fine but it also adds moisture inside which comes out of the wood under a finish. Usually moisture causes cloudiness but sometimes it is in streaks.


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## mmayo (Nov 2, 2018)

WTF is foolproof and for many CA is not. I use both. WTF is great for a very strong shiny finish without fumes. It retains the “wood” look and is still highly resistant to hands. People like it when they “know” it is wood by some surface depressions. Check out a paper towel the next day after using it to apply WTF; it will be rock hard like your pen’s finish. I use 5-8 coats with sanding after coats 1,4 with 400 grit and 1,000 grit sanding before buffing with a Beale buff system. Inexpensive wood pens get WTF as I can apply the finish in the house while enjoying a program or the news. No fumes or almost no fumes. I finished the pens below as a group in about an hour. 

The poor photo shows a few pens buffed today after a night to cure. They a VERY smooth to the touch and shiny. They are not CA glossy, but surpass any other of the several techniques I’ve tried and it stays shiny forever, not until tomorrow. Your mileage may vary. 

For higher quality pens, CA rules. I am not perfect every time but I make some very nice pens using CA without white spots or sanding dust.


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