# Cloning Wooly Mammoth



## bitshird (Oct 21, 2011)

I saw a blurb on the news that scientists actually are about to attempt cloning Wooly Mammoth's HOW Stupid can educated supposedly intelligent people get, do you suppose there was a reason they became extinct in the first place?? they say they will have one on the ground within 3 to 5 years. And some of you think I'm Nuts?? what about them???
the nice thing is think of all the Ivory Whoopee!!!!!!


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## xxShadowxx (Oct 21, 2011)

could be worse.....i just know some guy is going to be a jurrassic park fan and try to hire a team to do it, if for no other reason than to be the one who did it

but i also think people who try to pull the "they're extinct for a reason" reasoning are just as bad as they claim the people they rant about are

now for my turn, if evolution ment for them to stay extinct then evolution wouldn't have lead us to the ability to clone - and further, species go extinct nearly everyday on the planet, especially in the past 200 years, was it a good reason causing them to go extinct? game hunters, logging rain forests, zoos, skins/furs trappers,  and i'm willing to bet a couple of pen makers in the world are just as guilty, or should it be expanded to species of wood as well since trees are alive too?


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## Monolith (Oct 21, 2011)

Awesome, i can't wait!


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## moke (Oct 21, 2011)

Wait....couldn't there be some tusks available?


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## Smitty37 (Oct 22, 2011)

xxShadowxx said:


> could be worse.....i just know some guy is going to be a jurrassic park fan and try to hire a team to do it, if for no other reason than to be the one who did it
> 
> but i also think people who try to pull the "they're extinct for a reason" reasoning are just as bad as they claim the people they rant about are
> 
> now for my turn, if evolution ment for them to stay extinct then evolution wouldn't have lead us to the ability to clone - and further, species go extinct nearly everyday on the planet, especially in the past 200 years, was it a good reason causing them to go extinct? game hunters, logging rain forests, zoos, skins/furs trappers, and i'm willing to bet a couple of pen makers in the world are just as guilty, or should it be expanded to species of wood as well since trees are alive too?


 Most animals have gone extinct, not because of those folks but because of normal developments (man made or otherwise) which has changed their habitat. 

I would also question that evolution "meant" anything. According to science evolution is a process and just happens as a result of millions of tiny changes gradually happening over billions of years and as such there is no direction to it and no reason for it.

Personally I don't believe that but it is what science tells us.


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## bitshird (Oct 22, 2011)

I remember the Sheep Dolly, it worked, but her life span was only a few years, I just wonder how many acres of natural or sort of natural habitat it would take to support a Wooly Mammoth?.
Their might be tusks, but I'd bet the Fossilized tusk would be quite a bit less expensive, and besides haven't you ever watched 10,000 BC Those suckers look nasty, I don't think I'd want to try and cut one off.


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## Displaced Canadian (Oct 22, 2011)

A biology teacher explained evolution/natural selection to me. If a group of animals were in an area where the food was 10 ft. off the ground, the ones that could only reach 9 ft. didn't make it. They wouldn't live long enough to adapt. The ones that could reach would survive and chances are their offspring would also have longer necks and would continue to survive. Back to the subject. Could they tweak the DNA and just grow a giant tusk?


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## Monolith (Oct 22, 2011)

I can't wait for them to tweak human dna for that... you could grow your own ivory! lol


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## Rick P (Oct 22, 2011)

xxShadowxx said:


> could be worse.....i just know some guy is going to be a jurrassic park fan and try to hire a team to do it, if for no other reason than to be the one who did it
> 
> but i also think people who try to pull the "they're extinct for a reason" reasoning are just as bad as they claim the people they rant about are
> 
> now for my turn, if evolution ment for them to stay extinct then evolution wouldn't have lead us to the ability to clone - and further, species go extinct nearly everyday on the planet, especially in the past 200 years, was it a good reason causing them to go extinct? game hunters, logging rain forests, zoos, skins/furs trappers, and i'm willing to bet a couple of pen makers in the world are just as guilty, or should it be expanded to species of wood as well since trees are alive too?


 
Ya but ya made a couple of errors, big ones! NO species has been driven anywhere by game hunters! None not one anywhere! Fact is without game hunters like Roosevelt and Leupold there would be no national parks and very little public lands. Ducks unlimited for example has preserved more wet lands than any other source! Commercial hunters have devastated animal populations HUGE difference between the two and commercial hunting is no longer legal any where.

More than 90% of the worlds species have already gone extinct the last 200 years have not seen much of an acceleration when compared to the Permian extinction or any of the several other mass die offs mother nature orchestrated. We have screwed things up to be sure but only human arrogance would put our ability to kill at the same level as the comet that wiped out the dinosaurs over night! Only propaganda would ignore the progress we have made since the 50's.......it has been 44 years since the Detroit river caught fire and several species including the Bald eagle and all of the great whales, have made a stunning come backs!

Deforestation is a huge issue to be sure........but ZOOS! Are you serious? ZOOS! Personally I hate visiting them, no animal should be forced to live in captivity for human amusement but they have done a great deal to preserve threatened species. From reintroducing animals to the wild to the international gene bank zoos have done a great deal for our wild brothers and sisters. Not to mention that many get there first contact with anything "wild" at a zoo, you have to care about something to want to save it, zoo's do just that!

Whats even worse is this has no relevance to the discussion none! Fact; we have no idea what wiped out the mammoth, probably had little to do with humans. Fact; if we bring back a mammoth we could bring back a supper virus that helped extinguish all the large north American mammals, the mammoth had a lot of company in it's extinction! To bring back a species simply because we can seems short sighted and silly to me. Natural selection removed them from the environment long ago and there is little besides the "because I can" argument to suport altering what mother nature has done. "Because I can" has always been my excuse for pulling a dumb-ass maneuver and getting hurt! I for one dont want to hear "Because we could" from the scientific community when a reintroduced ice age virus destroys our livestock!

We evolved with big brains giving us the ability to reason and make good decisions. Since the invention of the atomic bomb many have been asking "has the rate of technological advancement outpaced mans evolution?" The "question" of cloning extinct species makes me wonder if we have kept pace! Yes our big brains make it possible but we have also evolved the ability to enslave billions, evaporate millions with a nuclear bomb, wipe out our own kind through bioengineering and ride a bicycle on ice while carrying scissors.........none of the above seems like a wise choice to me.

BTW we have been 3-5 years from a viable mammoth since the days of dolly the sheep.


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## Rick P (Oct 22, 2011)

Displaced Canadian said:


> A biology teacher explained evolution/natural selection to me. If a group of animals were in an area where the food was 10 ft. off the ground, the ones that could only reach 9 ft. didn't make it. They wouldn't live long enough to adapt. The ones that could reach would survive and chances are their offspring would also have longer necks and would continue to survive. Back to the subject. Could they tweak the DNA and just grow a giant tusk?


 
That food limitation is why pygmy Mammoth evolved. They were the last group to go extinct and tiny little guys. They only lived on a few islands of the coast of California and the lack of food dwarfed them.


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## Rick P (Oct 22, 2011)

One of Gunther and I's favorite mammals from the past!


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## Rick P (Oct 22, 2011)

New Ivory isnt nearly as intoresting as stuff with a 100,000 year old petina..........bone takes on a totaly diferent charictor. The pen sucks it's an early one but the material, mammoth bone is neat!


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## Monolith (Oct 22, 2011)

How would cloning a mammoth produce a virus?


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## SCR0LL3R (Oct 22, 2011)

Monolith said:


> How would cloning a mammoth produce a virus?



 I was wondering that myself.


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## StephenM (Oct 22, 2011)

Displaced Canadian said:


> Could they tweak the DNA and just grow a giant tusk?




No need to tweak it - I used to work for one.  Oh wait, sorry,  wrong end.


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## TheRealSmith (Oct 22, 2011)

Maybe they could clone me:biggrin: that way I could make twice as many pens!!


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## Chasper (Oct 22, 2011)

Rick P said:


> More than 90% of the worlds species have already gone extinct the last 200 years have not seen much of an acceleration when compared to the Permian extinction or any of the several other mass die offs mother nature orchestrated. We have screwed things up to be sure but only human arrogance would put our ability to kill at the same level as the comet that wiped out the dinosaurs over night! Only propaganda would ignore the progress we have made since the 50's.......it has been 44 years since the Detroit river caught fire and several species including the Bald eagle and all of the great whales, have made a stunning come backs!





bitshird said:


> I saw a blurb on the news that scientists actually are about to attempt cloning Wooly Mammoth's HOW Stupid can educated supposedly intelligent people get, do you suppose there was a reason they became extinct in the first place?? they say they will have one on the ground within 3 to 5 years. And some of you think I'm Nuts?? what about them???
> the nice thing is think of all the Ivory Whoopee!!!!!!



This isn’t the first time in history when the unenlightened masses have concluded that scientists and thinkers of all types were “stupid.”  In most cases the accusers were motivated by religious beliefs, nationalism, or a combination of both; pretty much the same as today.  Great thinkers have been executed, kicked out of their churches and otherwise demonized for their theories.  We are currently in a time when it is the scientists who are mocked and ridiculed for the hypotheses they advance and the experiments they propose.

It could be as much as 99% of all species that have ever been documented are now extinct and the majority of them died off in one of the extinction events.  However, the extinction events were hardly overnight occurrences; the End Permian extinction event probably occurred in multiple waves that lasted most of a million years.  That is still overnight in geological time. The Cretaceous-Tertiary event probably was triggered by a bolide impact, but the dinosaurs didn’t all die overnight.  There is good evidence that there were other causal events in the same time era.  To say that the dinosaurs died off within a few hundred thousand years would be a better description of the timing than to say overnight.

The Holocene extinction event which we are currently experiencing has been going on for 12,000 or so years and the rate of extinctions during this time period is proceeding at a faster pace than the End Permian which was the greatest of all extinction events to date.  If this continues for another million or so years it will easily be the greatest of all extinction events. 

While it is unlikely that human involvement was only cause of the extinction of mammoths and other megafauna, there is no doubt that humans hunted them and no doubt that humans have played a role in the extinction of other species over the last few thousand years.  I might be stupid, but given that we are killing off species at about the fastest rate ever, I think it sounds like a good idea to work out how to revive them.  How stupid would it be to think otherwise?


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## Rick P (Oct 22, 2011)

No one called anyone stupid! And I am sorry I didn't put over night  in parentheses I had a assumed "on a geological scale" was understood. My feeling that cloning a mammoth is "silly and miss guided" has nothing to do with how I worship, where I live or my country of origin, they are based in logic. Clone a mammoth to what purpose? Of what possible benefit other than a very expensive carnival attraction and scientific specimen could a living mammoth serve? 

There is no doubt man has played a role in the extinction of many species but the jury is very much out about our role in the extinction of the north American megafauna. More than likely like all mass extinctions it was a complex combinations of several factors. Of course man hunted the game of ice age America but given his low population densities and technology it seems clear there had to have been much larger forces at work. 

The international gene bank I mentioned earlier is one of the efforts currently under way to "retrieve" endangered species, certainly our focus needs to be on "retrieving" those species that are clearly gone because of our actions. Species that we have viable genetic samples for? We are loosing species fast primarily do to deforestation and loss of habitat now, how would putting an animal with twice the food requirements of an African elephant into the environment help the over crowding? Should we not save the species that are here now and stabilize the environment for there long term survival before introducing what amounts to a several ton invasive species?

PS the possibility of cloning a virus along with the mammoth is remote but there. Viruses replicate by joining there DNA segment with the messenger RNA of a host cell in its nuclei. When that cell replicates the infected code segment it also replicates the virus. It is possible that by injecting Mammoth genetic material in a inert egg the viral code could be passed along as well, thus cloning the virus with it's host. This is a very remote possibility but not 100% impossible.


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## Chasper (Oct 23, 2011)

Rick P said:


> No one called anyone stupid! And I am sorry I didn't put over night  in parentheses I had a assumed "on a geological scale" was understood. My feeling that cloning a mammoth is "silly and miss guided" has nothing to do with how I worship, where I live or my country of origin, they are based in logic. Clone a mammoth to what purpose? Of what possible benefit other than a very expensive carnival attraction and scientific specimen could a living mammoth serve?
> 
> There is no doubt man has played a role in the extinction of many species but the jury is very much out about our role in the extinction of the north American megafauna. More than likely like all mass extinctions it was a complex combinations of several factors. Of course man hunted the game of ice age America but given his low population densities and technology it seems clear there had to have been much larger forces at work.
> 
> ...



What do you mean nobody called anyone stupid.  Read the original post.  

The purpose of reconstructive cloning of a mammoth is to prove the concept.  I agree that the world probably does not need any living mammoths at this point in time.


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## Rick P (Oct 23, 2011)

Chasper

I did, no one called anyone stupid! Birtshird(The original poster) voiced the opinion that the idea was stupid, not an individual, there is a difference. I think he intended this to be a fun little chat about mammoths and possible cloning, I dont see a insult directed at anyone.

I have to admit I got snippy in my first response but conservationists who have no idea where the history of the conservation movement started drive me nuts. Blaming a group that has done a great deal to ensure the further existence of wild places and wild things sends me further over the deep edge! I have worked my entire life to ensure there are wild places for future generations and have taken hits for my efforts from both sides of the isle, it gets very old! Perhaps it is my fault this thread got nasty...........if so I am sorry for that. I have no doubt it was posted in fun and I am sad that it went so far down hill.


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## Haynie (Oct 23, 2011)

I think this is a case of "just because you _can _do something does not mean that you _should_."

Why?  Simple, as Rick has stated, there is no reason to do it besides someone's wanting to do it.


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## tbroye (Oct 25, 2011)

They probably got one of those Federal Grants to try this. Like the bridge to no where or numerous other goofy studies/experiments that have been funded with Government money.


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## snyiper (Oct 25, 2011)

Why not attempt to save or bring back something useful to mankind? Buffalo/Bison or some of the plants in our waters that are dieing off and leaving some fish no food to eat. Unless Outback steak house is going to be serving Mammoth steaks what would be the point? Why not clone or reproduce oysters in abundence so they can filter our waters? sure its being done on small scales but why spend the money on the Mammoth?


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## johncrane (Oct 25, 2011)

Mm! i think ill find another planet :biggrin:


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## sbell111 (Oct 25, 2011)

Haynie said:


> I think this is a case of "just because you _can _do something does not mean that you _should_."
> 
> Why?  Simple, as Rick has stated, there is no reason to do it besides someone's wanting to do it.


The same can be said for going to the moon or any of a thousand other scientific endevours.  That doesn't mean that they shouldn't be attempted, however.


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## sbell111 (Oct 25, 2011)

snyiper said:


> Why not attempt to save or bring back something useful to mankind? Buffalo/Bison or some of the plants in our waters that are dieing off and leaving some fish no food to eat. Unless Outback steak house is going to be serving Mammoth steaks what would be the point? Why not clone or reproduce oysters in abundence so they can filter our waters? sure its being done on small scales but why spend the money on the Mammoth?


Cloning animals that are not extinct to 'bring them back' is not very cost effective.  Bison, for instance, just need room to roam.  They can do the breeding all by themselves.


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## snyiper (Oct 25, 2011)

And the  Mammoth would be a cost effective venture?


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## sbell111 (Oct 25, 2011)

snyiper said:


> And the  Mammoth would be a cost effective venture?


Assuming that they could actually clone a mating pair of them, certainly many would believe it to be cost effective.  Heck, the very fact that they were able to clone a single animal that had been gone for thousands of years would have great scientific value.  A endevour need not earn a monetary profit in and of itself in order to be found cost effective, after all.

That being said, spending millions of dollars to produce one bison when you could get one with a couple dozen acres of land, some good grasses and a little mood lighting would not be cost effective.


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## bitshird (Oct 25, 2011)

Chasper said:


> Rick P said:
> 
> 
> > More than 90% of the worlds species have already gone extinct the last 200 years have not seen much of an acceleration when compared to the Permian extinction or any of the several other mass die offs mother nature orchestrated. We have screwed things up to be sure but only human arrogance would put our ability to kill at the same level as the comet that wiped out the dinosaurs over night! Only propaganda would ignore the progress we have made since the 50's.......it has been 44 years since the Detroit river caught fire and several species including the Bald eagle and all of the great whales, have made a stunning come backs!
> ...



Jerry I did say it sounded like a Stupid thing to do, The Biodiversity of the current planet isn't quite the same. I hardly regard the Scientists that are attempting this as Stupid,, just terribly misguided and lacking in common sense.
And  that the seem to be lacking consideration of things that are far more important, like finding ways to help the Human Species before we make our self's extinct. 
Perhaps it's just my mundane sense of reasoning, but I think since we have Elephants, which are also becoming extinct on both Asia and Africa, why not find a way to decrease the area over run by what ever it is that is encroaching on their necessary territory, Oh wait, Sorry it's Humans that are encroaching on nearly all species that are now either endangered and or extinct.
Look at what's happening just to timber species, clear cutting the rainforest, same thing in Equatorial Africa, 
My religious views have nothing what so ever to do with it, as I hardly have any Religious views!!, but you must admit it really is a dare I say DUMB idea. Are you going to want one in your back yard as a pet, sort of like George of the Jungle and his Elephant Shep?? Can never tell, it might help at shows., and rubbing it’s wooly coat on you might even make you smile a little.
I think if they are going to clone any thing, it should be something that is of some social economical thing, like humans with fully functional brains, That is something that of late there has been a tremendous shortage of, but I haven't heard of any one around West Tennessee asking any thing about where they could hire a wooly mammoth!!! 
And if you are going to read words into posts that aren't there PLEASE Read the post first. then clone away!!


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## glycerine (Oct 25, 2011)

Long live Snuffleupagus!!


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## Rojo22 (Oct 25, 2011)

bitshird said:


> I saw a blurb on the news that scientists actually are about to attempt cloning Wooly Mammoth's HOW Stupid can educated supposedly intelligent people get, do you suppose there was a reason they became extinct in the first place??!





Uhhh....anyone know if it is a white wine or red wine with wooly mamoth?


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## Monolith (Oct 25, 2011)

Rojo22 said:


> bitshird said:
> 
> 
> > I saw a blurb on the news that scientists actually are about to attempt cloning Wooly Mammoth's HOW Stupid can educated supposedly intelligent people get, do you suppose there was a reason they became extinct in the first place??!
> ...



lol, no clue... but I remember years ago reading about scientists who thawed out a mammoth cadaver after it had been frozen for 20,000 years and actually cooked some of the meat.  Apparently it tasted like beef. lol


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## Curly (Oct 25, 2011)

Hard part is shearing the wooly in the spring. The clippers tickle their belly and they drop and roll to stop it. 

I'm sure the Indian and African Elephants would be happy to let their cold weather cousins populate the northern zoos. 

I say clone away. Will be interested to see what the animal's colouring was. Who knows, they might have been patterned like Appaloosas or Pintos! :tongue:

Let's do the Sabre Tooth Tiger next. Make people with Pit bulls look like wimps and the cats will keep us from being overrun with Mammoths.


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## bitshird (Oct 25, 2011)

Curly said:


> Hard part is shearing the wooly in the spring. The clippers tickle their belly and they drop and roll to stop it.
> 
> I'm sure the Indian and African Elephants would be happy to let their cold weather cousins populate the northern zoos.
> 
> ...



And then Velociraptors to get rid of the Sabre Tooth Tigers, then lets do a T Rex just to get rid of every thing, !! Sound like a plan?? they could raise them in Memphis, it's so weird there no one would notice.





until it was too late!!!


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## brookswife803 (Oct 25, 2011)

You know I think there were some books and a few movies put out several years ago that dealt with this same situation. I think the main plot was some rich entertainment mogul contracted super scientists to clone extinct animals and house them on a remote island off Costa Rica. The ending for many of the inhabitants there was not good to say the least. In the movie they sat down and had a whole discussion about whether or not it was a good idea to have done this and one of the characters, I think a chaotition, said something along the lines of 'these scientists where so busy thinking about whether they COULD, they failed to think about whether they SHOULD.' Also they discussed the possibility that they were bringing animals back into a world that was completely changed from the one they had survived in before and once created the animals would fight to survive. Who's to say they wouldn't fight humans. Has anyone ever thought that a wooly mammoth might not want people around them. They might see us as a threat to their own survival and cause considerable damage to our own livelihood. I can't see this as a good thing and hope it gets put on permanent hold so that these scientists can focus on things that benefit this world as it is TODAY.


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## sbell111 (Oct 25, 2011)

brookswife803 said:


> You know I think there were some books and a few movies put out several years ago that dealt with this same situation. I think the main plot was some rich entertainment mogul contracted super scientists to clone extinct animals and house them on a remote island off Costa Rica. The ending for many of the inhabitants there was not good to say the least. In the movie they sat down and had a whole discussion about whether or not it was a good idea to have done this and one of the characters, I think a chaotition, said something along the lines of 'these scientists where so busy thinking about whether they COULD, they failed to think about whether they SHOULD.' Also they discussed the possibility that they were bringing animals back into a world that was completely changed from the one they had survived in before and once created the animals would fight to survive. Who's to say they wouldn't fight humans. Has anyone ever thought that a wooly mammoth might not want people around them. They might see us as a threat to their own survival and cause considerable damage to our own livelihood. I can't see this as a good thing and hope it gets put on permanent hold so that these scientists can focus on things that benefit this world as it is TODAY.


I'm pretty sure that the beasts could be put down fairly easily if they started to run amuck.  They are pretty much just furry elephants, after all.  Plus, the difference between them and the beasts in the movie (other than the fact that that was just a movie) is that mammoths don't (didn't) eat people.


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## sbell111 (Oct 25, 2011)

Curly said:


> I say clone away. Will be interested to see what the animal's colouring was. Who knows, they might have been patterned like Appaloosas or Pintos! :tongue:


Their color really isn't in question as a number of mammoths have been recoved from the ice intact.  (That's actually how the scientists got the DNA that they are using to try to clone the animal.)


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## sbell111 (Oct 25, 2011)

bitshird said:


> Jerry I did say it sounded like a Stupid thing to do, The Biodiversity of the current planet isn't quite the same. I hardly regard the Scientists that are attempting this as Stupid,, just terribly misguided and lacking in common sense.
> And  that the seem to be lacking consideration of things that are far more important, like finding ways to help the Human Species before we make our self's extinct.
> Perhaps it's just my mundane sense of reasoning, but I think since we have Elephants, which are also becoming extinct on both Asia and Africa, why not find a way to decrease the area over run by what ever it is that is encroaching on their necessary territory, Oh wait, Sorry it's Humans that are encroaching on nearly all species that are now either endangered and or extinct.
> Look at what's happening just to timber species, clear cutting the rainforest, same thing in Equatorial Africa,
> ...


You (and others) might take note that the scientists working on this project are experts in cloning and invitro fertilization.  They are not the ones that should be expected to solve the problems that you speak of in your post.


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## Rick P (Oct 25, 2011)

Guys Bison are not extinct by a long shot, in fact I put in for a hunt permit for them every year here in Alaska. Keep in mind that any species reintroduced after even 1,000 years is no longer a native species, it's an invasive one! Ask the folks on the old Mississippi how the Asian carp are working out for them!

So glad this got back to a fun little "what if" thread!

Going to the moon and the space program is far diferent than cloning a mammoth! If we as a species are going to survive long term we will have to leave this planet some day, weather we make the planet uninhabitable or the dieing sun dose our time here is limited! The tech that has come out of the space program has touched every aspect of our lives. So far to my mind cloning doesn't hold any of that promise. I am unaware of a single "good for the greater public" to come out of the experiance with dolly. Seems to me more reasons to not try cloning again presented themselves.


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## bitshird (Oct 25, 2011)

Rick P said:


> Guys Bison are not extinct by a long shot, in fact I put in for a hunt permit for them every year here in Alaska. Keep in mind that any species reintroduced after even 1,000 years is no longer a native species, it's an invasive one! Ask the folks on the old mississippi how the asian carp are woking out for them!
> 
> So glad this got back to a fun little "what if" theread!



Rick, In Chernobyl Russia or Ukraine, actually the entire region the Bison herds are making tremendous comebacks even with the radiation from the melt down, Wolf's are still growing in numbers, but not as fast as the Bison, and so far they all appear to be doing fine, it's amazing to see Animals survive and thrive where humans can't except for short intervals. The Biologists are wondering why the wild life has been able to endure in the area. 
 Oh and so far those stupid (YES I said the S word) silver Asian carp are still staying south down in Louisiana, but give them time,  kind of like the Pythons or Boa Constrictors in the Everglades are spreading as well.  
So I'm wondering if we are also an invasive species?? That would explain a lot!!


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## Rick P (Oct 25, 2011)

I am very active in public side of setting hunting regs and conservation projects here in Alaska. The Musk Ox on the slope are presenting us with a rather bizarre paradox. Western herds are growing like gangbusters! Just doing wonderfully! Eastern herds are disappearing quick! Very quick in fact I have noticed a sharp decline in the areas of the slope I hunt and I only make the trip north 4-5 times a year. One of the bio guys spotted a brown bear hunting them. ears dont normally wander that far north to hunt Musk ox, wolves are there normal predator. The theory is that the bears have figured out that there is easy game just north of where they normally hunt and the brown bears are decimating the population. My all time favorite arctic critter! I used to beg my Dad to take me to Alaska when I was a kid so I could see one! First time I saw one in the wild was the second time the sight of a wild animal brought tears to my eyes, first was a blue whale. I had been told well into my teens by the scientific community both animals would be gone before I ever had a chance to see them.


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## titan2 (Oct 25, 2011)

bitshird said:


> Rick P said:
> 
> 
> > Guys Bison are not extinct by a long shot, in fact I put in for a hunt permit for them every year here in Alaska. Keep in mind that any species reintroduced after even 1,000 years is no longer a native species, it's an invasive one! Ask the folks on the old mississippi how the asian carp are woking out for them!
> ...


 
Kind of the same thing when they experimented with Africanized Honey Bees........whops....they excaped.....

We were told not to worry, they won't like the cold.....well, they're still making their way north....not good for our domestic honey bee population!

It's not nice to fool with 'Mother' nature!!!


Barney


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## IPD_Mr (Oct 25, 2011)

Think of the possibilities. Mammoth burgers at Micky D's    How many thousands of starving children could be fed on a herd of these.  :smile-big:

Cons:
The biggest and worse one I can think of is methane.  Cows are a huge producer of the green house gas methane.  Imagine what a large herd of the would do to global warming, not to mention the smell.  :biggrin:

Anyway, I had fun reading this.  It was like a History Channel vs. Nat Geo debate.  We have some pretty intelligent and informed people on here.


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## Chasper (Oct 26, 2011)

Beware of claims that "common sense" is the best course of action.  There was a scientist a few years back who had an idea that sick people should be given strong poisions to cure them.  Curing sickness with something that could kill?  Common sense?  To much suprise it worked, now we call it chemo therpy. Common sense foils too many wild ideas before they get a chance.  Personally I find common sense to be overated.


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## Rick P (Oct 26, 2011)

Chasper I am not trying to be argumentative, honestly I am not.......however drugs like cisplatin attack fast growing cells. The forms of cancer it is used to treat are clusters of fast growing cells. When you look at how the drug effects the cells of the body it does make sence.


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## Smitty37 (Oct 26, 2011)

*Not likely*



Chasper said:


> Rick P said:
> 
> 
> > More than 90% of the worlds species have already gone extinct the last 200 years have not seen much of an acceleration when compared to the Permian extinction or any of the several other mass die offs mother nature orchestrated. We have screwed things up to be sure but only human arrogance would put our ability to kill at the same level as the comet that wiped out the dinosaurs over night! Only propaganda would ignore the progress we have made since the 50's.......it has been 44 years since the Detroit river caught fire and several species including the Bald eagle and all of the great whales, have made a stunning come backs!
> ...


 
Animals including mammal hunt other animals including other mammals.  Man is not alone in the role of hunter, truth is until man became pretty proficient in making and using weapons he was as likely to be the hunted as the hunter.  

Animal life and species come and go and have been doing so for a lot longer than man has been around.  Tigers are becoming scarce - they eat people and the people who are likely to be the eatees do not like that so they kill tigers.  Tigers are a beautiful animal but I still wouldn't have wanted to raise my kids in the same neighborhood where they live.


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## JimBellina (Oct 28, 2011)

I wonder if Mammoth tastes like chicken?

Cloning a Mammoth is just plain sexy, much like going to the moon was. Sure they could focus on an ancient slug that looks pretty much like a modern slug, but it wouldn't stimulate the senses in the same way that a Mammoth does.

I don't think that the key to curing cancer or to extending human life will come from Mammoth urine, but the science developed to clone a Mammoth, or even the children encouraged to pursue science as a career because they followed the cloning of a Mammoth, will affect things like cancer research in the future. We don't always know how we will capitalize on what we learn from scientific exploration, but I think we've always found a way to do just that. Not to say that there isn't plenty of stupid science going on in the world, and even more stupid pseudo-science, but I'll save that rant for another day.

Jim in NC


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## Chasper (Oct 28, 2011)

Just to move this discussion in a little different direction, say it was possible to clone and reverse the extinction of Neanderthals, and it may soon become possible.  Should we do it?

Modern humans probably played a role in their demise, either by cross breeding them out of existance of killing them if that matters to anyone.


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## bitshird (Oct 28, 2011)

Chasper said:


> Just to move this discussion in a little different direction, say it was possible to clone and reverse the extinction of Neanderthals, and it may soon become possible.  Should we do it?
> 
> Modern humans probably played a role in their demise, either by cross breeding them out of existance of killing them if that matters to anyone.



I take it you've never been to Western Tennessee, we have one of the largest populations of Neanderthals in the United States!! but their constant battles with the Cro-magnons, are proving that the Natural selection theory may be wrong. it's like living near the land that time should forget!! But can't !!!


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## Rick P (Oct 28, 2011)

Oh man where is a like button when you need one!


Chasper that would be a very BIG no!


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## jhprice (Oct 28, 2011)

Hum...they'ee talking about us again.


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## Smitty37 (Oct 28, 2011)

*Hmmmmm*



Chasper said:


> Just to move this discussion in a little different direction, say it was possible to clone and reverse the extinction of Neanderthals, and it may soon become possible. Should we do it?
> 
> Modern humans probably played a role in their demise, either by cross breeding them out of existance of killing them if that matters to anyone.


 
That is one hypothsis - to me neither scenario seems to be entirely supported by the fossil evidence.  It is known that the Neanderthals did exist at the same time as more modern humans so they are probably not modern man's ancestor as was thought for a long time.

I also hold a personal opinion that before the advent of modern firearms that humans never "hunted" any of those large animals into extinction.  They were too hard to kill.  One would be unlikely to try to take on a sabre tooth tiger of some of the giant bears for sport.  Humans probably killed them if they had to but I suspect they didn't go looking for them very often.


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