# Help with Cannon EOS lighting



## Rmartin (Oct 25, 2010)

I recently bought a used Cannon EOS from a IAP member. Many of the setting had already been, well, set. Such as date and time and the 10 second timer. I've taken all the photos below with the camera on a tripod with timer and set on macro. None of the photos below have been photoshopped. They have only been reduced in size.







The photo above was taken with 4 daylight compact florescence bulbs without the camera flash. One on each side and on above. White background.






The photo above was taken with camera flash only. No added lights. Same white background. I was pretty happy with this picture, but it all went wrong when I tried to use a different color background in the pictures below








The picture above was taken same as previous picture, but it's on a light blue background, which is nearly washed out.






In the picture above you can see the blue background a little better, but it's still not right. I took this with a piece of tissue over the camera flash.






In the picture above, photo was taken with all lights off in the shop with only the camera flash with the pen on a brown ceramic tile.

I'm so confused I don't know what to try. Should I reset the camera to factory settings and start over? Can custom settings be used while in macro or do I need to go manual? 



Suggestions?


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## glycerine (Oct 25, 2010)

I don't see any pictures...


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## Rmartin (Oct 25, 2010)

glycerine said:


> I don't see any pictures...


 

I see them fine, are you getting red x's or what?


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## alphageek (Oct 25, 2010)

I personally wouldn't use on-camera flash at all for pen lighting.. Its just too close for it.   

I personally think the setup from the first picture is going to get you set closest... You need to adjust the white balance and then possibly the exposure settings... Then you should be right on.


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## glycerine (Oct 25, 2010)

Rmartin said:


> glycerine said:
> 
> 
> > I don't see any pictures...
> ...


 
No, no red x's either.  I thought maybe you forgot to post them.  But if they're there, it's probably because I'm logged in through my work VPN and they're being blocked...


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## Rmartin (Oct 25, 2010)

alphageek said:


> I personally wouldn't use on-camera flash at all for pen lighting.. Its just too close for it.
> 
> I personally think the setup from the first picture is going to get you set closest... You need to adjust the white balance and then possibly the exposure settings... Then you should be right on.


 

That sounds about right.

If anyone is familar with the Cannon Eos 300D, can the white balance and exposure be changed in Macro, or do I need to be in the Manual setting? Can you suggest a good tutorial on this camera? The manual leaves a little to be desired.


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## glycerine (Oct 25, 2010)

alphageek said:


> I personally wouldn't use on-camera flash at all for pen lighting.. Its just too close for it.
> 
> I personally think the setup from the first picture is going to get you set closest... You need to adjust the white balance and then possibly the exposure settings... Then you should be right on.


 
BUT, sometimes the on camera flash can give you just the right "specular highlight" on the shiny parts (But I also use a diffuser).  Which EOS model do you have? My wife has the XSi. When I take pics with it, I use a homemade tent setup with about 5 flourescent lights. I do use manual so that I can get just the right exposure... I'll take a look on my home computer later so I can see your pics.


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## alphageek (Oct 25, 2010)

Rmartin said:


> alphageek said:
> 
> 
> > I personally wouldn't use on-camera flash at all for pen lighting.. Its just too close for it.
> ...



I think the "macro" that your talking about is a set of default settings.. No real "macro" to it.. not like a P&S camera has anyway... I'd suggest  starting at "P"... that will let you start with the basics and play there.. you can custom white balance in that and you can set exposure +/- too.

Dean


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## Rmartin (Oct 25, 2010)

glycerine said:


> Rmartin said:
> 
> 
> > glycerine said:
> ...


 
That's what it is. They are posted from my website and I've had people tell me that my site is blocked by their company computer because it showed as a  gambling site, which I've checked all my codes and there's nothing on there.


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## ctubbs (Oct 25, 2010)

Please, please do not take the following as anything but helpfully intended advice.  I would never criticize anyone’s work to be hurtful.

Top photo; that is the color of florescent lights.  They are always green.  Do you have the camera white balance set on auto or some other setting?

Photo 2: Pretty good except the on camera flash drives dark shadows under the pen.  Try using bounce flash and reflectors to improve the lighting balance.

Photo 3; Background is washed out ie too much light.  Are you using the macro settings?  If so, the flash is over exposing the background.  Try to under expose by stopping down 1 then 2 stops.

Photo 4; Much better but still too much light, the background is still washed out.  See photo 3 data.

Photo 5; You will notice the hard shadow under the pen, also the ‘hot spot’ in the center of the photo.  Again too much flash.  Is there any way to use bounce flash with your camera?  If not look into purchasing an aux flash that can be set off camera.  We used to get a white or aluminum umbrella and bounce the flash off that.  It scatters out the light and gives a much softer light.

I hope this helps a bit.  The pen is really good and well finished The kit blends very well with the wood.  If explainations are needed, pm me.

Charles


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## glycerine (Oct 25, 2010)

alphageek said:


> Rmartin said:
> 
> 
> > alphageek said:
> ...


 
+1 on that.  With a DSLR the only true "macro" is with a macro lens...


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## Rmartin (Oct 25, 2010)

ctubbs said:


> Please, please do not take the following as anything but helpfully intended advice. I would never criticize anyone’s work to be hurtful.
> 
> Top photo; that is the color of florescent lights. They are always green. Do you have the camera white balance set on auto or some other setting?
> 
> ...


 
Criticize away, please! That's why I posted these crappy pictures. The white balance setting is AWB. Which is apparently auto. I tried ajusting it, but I must be doing something wrong, or it can't be adjusted while dial is on the Macro (little flower). Looks like I've got a steep learning curve to take more control away from the auto settings.


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## alphageek (Oct 25, 2010)

Rmartin said:


> Criticize away, please! That's why I posted these crappy pictures. The white balance setting is AWB. Which is apparently auto. I tried ajusting it, but I must be doing something wrong, or it can't be adjusted while dial is on the Macro (little flower). Looks like I've got a steep learning curve to take more control away from the auto settings.



Yeah.. the flower really is just a set of settings... Switch to P to start learning... P is like the "green box" automatic, except you can start to play with settings.

From there you can start by changing white balance, etc one step at a time and see how it works... AND you can appreciate the immediate feedback of digital.. I remember learning all that the hard way with my first SLR and film!


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## toddlajoie (Oct 25, 2010)

I looked around real quick, but could not find any version of the 300D user manual anywhere. I did find somewhat detailed specifications, so I've got a few somewhat generic suggestions for things to look into to help you out. As others have said, the on camera flash is not going to be helpful for pen photos for the most part. and I agree that your first photo is the best starting point of the images you posted. The Auto White Balance is rarely going to work for you when shooting pens, especially on any background that is not neutral gray (i.e. your white, blue, and ceramic tiles). The specs I found stated that you could not directly set a Kelvin temperature for your color balance, but it was not specific as to what presets it has (tho it did state that there are 6 of them) I would be VERY surprised if one of the presets was not Florescent, so I would locate that Preset white balance setting and change it to that. After that, set your exposure method to Manual, so you will set your aperture and shutter speed to get the correct exposure. I would suggest picking an aperture in the upper middle range of your lens, say f-8 or 11 to start. and leaving that where it is until you get your exposure closer. You have a self timer and tripod, so you don't need to worry about keeping your shutter speed fast. Generally there will be a display that shows how your current aperture/shutter speed relates to what it thinks is the correct exposure, usually represented as a +/- scale and showing centered or zero when you are set to what it thinks is the correct exposure. Depending on your background, you will either be above or below the recommended exposure ( above recomendation for light backgrounds, below recomendation for dark backgrounds) but for the most part, once you figure out the exposure for your setup and set your camera to that exposure manually, it would not change that much for different backgrounds or pens (it may adjust a bit...)

After that, you should be able to get much better photos, and being digital, you can get the feedback instantly on the camera which is a big bonus. If after getting the exposure closer and use the Florescent setting, you're still not good color wise, you'll probably need to look into the method for doing a custom white balance for your lighting setup.

So my suggestion is, get your color balance set first (it can affect your exposure...) then keep that where it is and get your exposure closer. When you get your exposure down, you may or may not need to look into finer control over your color balance.


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## Rmartin (Oct 25, 2010)

toddlajoie said:


> I looked around real quick, but could not find any version of the 300D user manual anywhere. I did find somewhat detailed specifications, so I've got a few somewhat generic suggestions for things to look into to help you out. As others have said, the on camera flash is not going to be helpful for pen photos for the most part. and I agree that your first photo is the best starting point of the images you posted. The Auto White Balance is rarely going to work for you when shooting pens, especially on any background that is not neutral gray (i.e. your white, blue, and ceramic tiles). The specs I found stated that you could not directly set a Kelvin temperature for your color balance, but it was not specific as to what presets it has (tho it did state that there are 6 of them) I would be VERY surprised if one of the presets was not Florescent, so I would locate that Preset white balance setting and change it to that. After that, set your exposure method to Manual, so you will set your aperture and shutter speed to get the correct exposure. I would suggest picking an aperture in the upper middle range of your lens, say f-8 or 11 to start. and leaving that where it is until you get your exposure closer. You have a self timer and tripod, so you don't need to worry about keeping your shutter speed fast. Generally there will be a display that shows how your current aperture/shutter speed relates to what it thinks is the correct exposure, usually represented as a +/- scale and showing centered or zero when you are set to what it thinks is the correct exposure. Depending on your background, you will either be above or below the recommended exposure ( above recomendation for light backgrounds, below recomendation for dark backgrounds) but for the most part, once you figure out the exposure for your setup and set your camera to that exposure manually, it would not change that much for different backgrounds or pens (it may adjust a bit...)
> 
> After that, you should be able to get much better photos, and being digital, you can get the feedback instantly on the camera which is a big bonus. If after getting the exposure closer and use the Florescent setting, you're still not good color wise, you'll probably need to look into the method for doing a custom white balance for your lighting setup.
> 
> So my suggestion is, get your color balance set first (it can affect your exposure...) then keep that where it is and get your exposure closer. When you get your exposure down, you may or may not need to look into finer control over your color balance.


 
Excellent post! Thank you very much!

I'm printing this out and will use it as a guide tomorrow.

Thanks again


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## Nick (Oct 26, 2010)

Photo was taken with a Canon EOS XSi on macro, fully auto.
There is a good book available, Canon EOS, by David D. Busch. I got mine locally


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## glycerine (Oct 26, 2010)

Now I can see your pics!  One quick note, since you are using flourescent lights, just make sure to give them 5 to 10 minutes to "warm up" before shooting.
Once you start playing with manual settings, if you slow down the shutter speed enough, your on camera flash won't be so bad and won't wash out the center of the picture as much.  When you get enough light in from your other bulbs, your flash can add some nice highlights.  Don't write it off just yet.
I agree with Todd, I believe I usually shoot around f11 for my pens...


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## DavidSpavin (Oct 26, 2010)

Does the camera have a RAW format? If it does then you can use this and then change the White Balance in Photoshop or the Canon software (if you have it, I think you can down load it if you don't have it). RAW format also alows you to play with the exposure, colour balance etc.


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## Glenn McCullough (Nov 8, 2010)

*hows this*

I copied your first photo and touched it up using a MS photo shop, is this what you want...Its a good photo of a great looking pen.


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## Rmartin (Nov 8, 2010)

Glenn McCullough said:


> I copied your first photo and touched it up using a MS photo shop, is this what you want...Its a good photo of a great looking pen.


 

Yeah, that's very nice. I have photoshop elements, and have taken a 2 year online course learning to use it, but I really want to get away from photoshopping my pens. 

Since I first posted this, I've built a light box. Still working to get the lights set just right. I've also been taking a lot of test pictures using different camera settings. I should have some progress pictures by next week. Maybe then I can get back to pen making!


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## jbmauser (Nov 8, 2010)

Just a general hint.  When I need to shoot something close up with the camera's built in flash I damp the light down with a few folds of a white handkerchief or a white napkin or plain sheet of white paper folded a few times.  I think I once used a business card.  It works great as you can easily adjust, to bright - a few more folds - to dark a few less.  Remember any color in the dampening material will color the light.  You may want that in some cases.  I have used a piece of scotch tape to just hang the material over the flash.  Most time I just free hand it.


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## themartaman (Nov 14, 2010)

*Lights*

Fluorescents are not always green. Cool white and cool white deluxe are. Warm white lamps produce warm colors. I am building 2 soft box style light enclosures. Will use high wattage daylight fluorescent bulbs. No green color. Lowes carries them, but as always not all lowes will have them. Use a length of piano wire with brass tubing over it. End of brass tubing will have a small rectangle of sheet brass soldered to end. Use modeling clay to hold pen to it. Wire will be at an angle so you don't see it. No shadows this way. I worked in a commercial studio for 11 years in atlanta. We did more table top photography than anything else. Amazing some of the setups we had. Larry


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## razor524 (Nov 18, 2010)

I believe with those cameras, if you are in one of the preset modes(sports, macro, etc), you can not pick the white balance, it picks it for you.  With the fluorescent light setup, put you camera on Av, set it at about f8 or f11 to get good depth of field and sharpness, and the camera will pick the shutter speed.  Then in this setting you can pick the white balance that you want.  Canon has some pretty good macro specific lenses, 100mm macro and 60mm macro, that would be helpful and are not too expensive as well.  The on camera flash is really not ever going to give you the look that I think you are going for.  Good luck!


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