# Shellac



## Batis53 (Jun 2, 2016)

Hi
I'm new here and my question could seem silly, but here goes. Can we finish pens with shellec only.
Thanks buddies.


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## GaryMGg (Jun 2, 2016)

You could. However, getting a deep finish with shellac is a lot of work and will require lots of maintenance unless the pen won't be used.


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## magpens (Jun 2, 2016)

Welcome to IAP, Robert !!!


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## Edgar (Jun 2, 2016)

Hi Robert,
Welcome to the IAP. I would like to encourage you to post a message in our Introductions Forum & tell us a little about yourself. That will also get you automatically entered into our monthly new member drawing and you might win some nice pen blanks.

Also, be sure to post a pen photo in the Show Off Your Pens Forum within 60 days of joining IAP to be eligible for another of our new member drawings.

Edgar


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## leehljp (Jun 2, 2016)

It is a valid question. There are many who come into pen turning and making from various backgrounds and with experience with different finishes that work well in particular situations. 

Where wood pens are peculiar is how they are used and handled differently from other wood implements and furniture. They are held by sweaty hands, used a dozen times or more a day, subjected to cold and heat such as in a car, humidity and dry, inside and out, very warm moisture from a shirt pocket, crammed into a purse with keys, compacts, cell phones, loose change and more. And this is DAILY. 

You won't find musical instruments or fine furniture that goes through this kind of use, or a finish that is made for such a wide variety of situations. Gym flooring is about the closest thing to pen abuse and use. Shellac won't stand up under normal pen use. There are people who really take care of their pens and they go to lengths to keep it clean and protect it. A person like this would probably be able to use a Shellac finished pen without a problem.


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## jttheclockman (Jun 3, 2016)

Batis53 said:


> Hi
> I'm new here and my question could seem silly, but here goes. Can we finish pens with shellec only.
> Thanks buddies.




Hello Robert and welcome to the site.

The question is not silly. But I would like to ask why is it that you want to use it???  I ask because applying shellac is difficult to get  a nice even finish. You have to use many many coats and being you are adding alcohol to the mixture it will flash over very fast. You need to sand between each coat which is time consuming. 

Now maybe you are an expert working with shellac for we have no idea of your background, and you may find it an easy finish. As mentioned it will not stand up well to everyday heavy use but can be repaired easily. 

Shellac is a very good sealing coat for poly top coat. So to answer your question yes it can but with more work than I care to do. Good luck.


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## KenV (Jun 3, 2016)

Welcome Robert

I have French polished display pens and they look good if not handled or used much.

Many of the friction polishes sold for finishing wood turnings are shellac based with oil and wax.  They look good at the start but the finish degrades fast with use.

There are some shellac additives sold in Australia that are reported to provide better durability.  Not readily available in North America.

I do use shellac as an intermediate sealer with some oily woods.


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## SDB777 (Jun 3, 2016)

Batis53 said:


> Hi
> I'm new here and my question could seem silly, but here goes. Can we finish pens with shellec only.
> Thanks buddies.


 

Welcome aboard!!!!



Scott B


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## Batis53 (Jun 3, 2016)

edohmann said:


> Hi Robert,
> Welcome to the IAP. I would like to encourage you to post a message in our Introductions Forum & tell us a little about yourself. That will also get you automatically entered into our monthly new member drawing and you might win some nice pen blanks.
> 
> Also, be sure to post a pen photo in the Show Off Your Pens Forum within 60 days of joining IAP to be eligible for another of our new member drawings.
> ...



Hi
How do I introduce myself ? Kinda don't know how. 
Cheers


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## jttheclockman (Jun 3, 2016)

Batis53 said:


> edohmann said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Robert,
> ...




Just follow what Edgar just wrote here. It is on the front page


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## corgicoupe (Jun 5, 2016)

I have found that I do not like CA for two reasons: I don't care for the plastic-like finish that it produces on wood, and the vapors irritate my eyes, significantly. For non-wood blanks (which I don't do) it is plastic over plastic and is appropriate. It may also be the best choice for stabilized wood. However, I have used two alternative finishes with success and pleasing results: oil/shellac mixture and oil/varnish misture. The shellac is cut to a 2# consistency, and the oil is usually walnut oil. The varnish is spar varnish and the oil is tung oil. I also make small wooden boxes and the finish is generally the oil/varnish, but I have also used plain shellac. He quality wax is always the final finish on all my wood projects.

I acknowledge that shellac, even with a wax topcoat, is not as durable as CA, but I turn only fountain pens and I believe they are handled with more care than BP pens and RB pens.

I have read that others find polyurethane varnish to work fine with oil, but I like the elasticity and clarity of the spar varnish. I use gloss to eliminate the matting compounds; I think it gives a clearer finish. The wax coat will cut the gloss too. The oil/varnish mix can be thinned with mineral spirits for easy application, but I prefer turpentine because my early years were spent in boatyard and I love the smell.


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## Batis53 (Jun 6, 2016)

Thanks for the answer. I don't like CA  too. 4 out of 5 of my pens look bad so.... well it's not  the CA's fault it's me. I had found tripple E Ultra Shine. Very easy to apply, very nice finish... for a week. I don't think I'll find Spar Varnish in New-Brunswick but i'll try. 
Again thanks for the answer, and thanks to everyone who took the time to answer me.


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## Curly (Jun 6, 2016)

With all the boat building and fishing boats in the Maritimes I'd be blown away if you can't find Spar Varnish in or near your town.


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## corgicoupe (Jun 6, 2016)

Batis53 said:


> Thanks for the answer. I don't like CA  too. 4 out of 5 of my pens look bad so.... well it's not  the CA's fault it's me. I had found tripple E Ultra Shine. Very easy to apply, very nice finish... for a week. I don't think I'll find Spar Varnish in New-Brunswick but i'll try.
> Again thanks for the answer, and thanks to everyone who took the time to answer me.



I think the triple E is basically a shellac/oil mix. Following it with a hard wax should help keep the finish. The oil/varnish will be more durable, but I wax this too.


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## Dan Masshardt (Jun 7, 2016)

corgicoupe said:


> I think the triple E is basically a shellac/oil mix. Following it with a hard wax should help keep the finish. The oil/varnish will be more durable, but I wax this too.



Actually the eee is a polishing wax, not a finish per se.  It's a wax with fine abrasive powder - Tripoli or the like.   It's often recommended as a step before a friction finish.  The same company makes shellawax, a wax / shellac mix.


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## Scottg (Jun 7, 2016)

I've been having a reaction to CA lately.  I've been wondering if Polyurethane would make a good finish.  Has anyone played around with Polyurethane?


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## KenV (Jun 7, 2016)

Scottg said:


> I've been having a reaction to CA lately.  I've been wondering if Polyurethane would make a good finish.  Has anyone played around with Polyurethane?



Les Elm gets a superb finish using a dipping method.  He has written a tutorial on his process.  

Air brush works for applying  thin coats, and rattle can with Minwax can work.  Difficulty with a rattle can is getting a light coat.

Poly spray takes several coats each of which needs to set up before the next coat.  Final cure before polishing takes several days.


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## leehljp (Jun 7, 2016)

Scottg said:


> I've been having a reaction to CA lately.  I've been wondering if Polyurethane would make a good finish.  Has anyone played around with Polyurethane?



A note on the CA. I am highly allergic to it.

I went this route looking for a different finish that would satisfy my requirements as a to what it should look like and endure. My expectations were not met by other finishes.

The first thing that made me give up hunting for other finishes was the TIME factor. Waiting for a day minimum for curing (and that is not enough) was too long. For a single pen, no problem, but if I am going to make 10 to 20 a week, the "before you can handle it" time  and curing time, was too long.  That alone put me back to CA. My search led me to install a Dust Collector, add a fan and wear a respirator and face mask. (Not a dust mask). So I came back to CA. 

IF I had never known "CA" I would not have been disappointed with other finishes! :wink:


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## Curly (Jun 7, 2016)

If you want a friction finish that is reputed to stand up try some Craft Coat. In Canada it is available from William Wood-Write. 

http://www.penblanks.ca/Finishes/


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## conandy (Jun 7, 2016)

General Finishes Wood Turner's Finish (WTF) and General Finishes Enduro-Var are a couple of water based alternatives that should give much shorter "between coat" times than the oil-varnish blends.  Do a search and you will find a plethora of discussions on these elsewhere on the site.  I think WTF is roughly equivalent to the aforementioned  Craft Coat, but I haven't tried Craft Coat.  It has a number of loyal followers here, though.  

I myself have tried WTF a few times and have had a hard time getting the results others here describe.   And it takes a lot more coats to get anywhere near the build capable with CA.  

Quite frankly, once you perfect a CA finishing process that works for you, it is very hard to find an alternative that gives equivalent build and shine and durability in anywhere near as short of a time frame.


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## Dr.Internet (Jun 7, 2016)

Bienvenue!

I have never liked CA and don't use it as a finish.  I use 7 - 10 coats of alcohol based shellac; let is cure for a least a week; then apply a couple of coats of Carnuba wax, polishing with a cloth wheel on the lathe.
I have followed this technique for many years with no problems.  

If you can't find Spar Varnish locally, you can get it through the internet and delivered to your door.


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## jttheclockman (Jun 7, 2016)

I am not sure why you people who use shellac as a finish do not try finishing with Danish oil. It is low fumes compared to CA and has poly in it and leaves a beautiful warm feel to wood finish. I use it on just about all my clock and other woodworking projects. It really is a nice durable finish if you are not after that high shine.


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## leehljp (Jun 7, 2016)

jttheclockman said:


> I am not sure why you people who use shellac as a finish do not try finishing with Danish oil. It is low fumes compared to CA and has poly in it and leaves a beautiful warm feel to wood finish. I use it on just about all my clock and other woodworking projects. It really is a nice durable finish if you are not after that high shine.



John, when I get back to turning pens again, I am going to give this a try. Thanks for the reminder.


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## corgicoupe (Jun 8, 2016)

jttheclockman said:


> I am not sure why you people who use shellac as a finish do not try finishing with Danish oil. It is low fumes compared to CA and has poly in it and leaves a beautiful warm feel to wood finish. I use it on just about all my clock and other woodworking projects. It really is a nice durable finish if you are not after that high shine.



Google "Flexner on danish oil" to learn about many of these finishes which are either "wiping varnish" or "oil/varnish blends". Thinning varnish about 50% with mineral spirits, or adding about 50% tung oil or boiled linseed oil is essentially making these products in your shop. Bob Flexner has written several books on finishing, and often contributes to Popular Woodworking.


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## corgicoupe (Jun 8, 2016)

Dan Masshardt said:


> corgicoupe said:
> 
> 
> > I think the triple E is basically a shellac/oil mix. Following it with a hard wax should help keep the finish. The oil/varnish will be more durable, but I wax this too.
> ...



You are correct; I had forgotten the two names, but was introduced to them in a class earlier this year.


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## corgicoupe (Jun 8, 2016)

corgicoupe said:


> Dan Masshardt said:
> 
> 
> > corgicoupe said:
> ...



I should have mentioned that I made my own version of EEE by mixing tripoli in a soft paste wax, and polishing before finishing. I also made one with  pumice and wax. The proportions may not be the same, but it works well. I just get pleasure from mixing my own, as long as it works like the store product. It's probably a bit cheaper, too.


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## jttheclockman (Jun 8, 2016)

corgicoupe said:


> jttheclockman said:
> 
> 
> > I am not sure why you people who use shellac as a finish do not try finishing with Danish oil. It is low fumes compared to CA and has poly in it and leaves a beautiful warm feel to wood finish. I use it on just about all my clock and other woodworking projects. It really is a nice durable finish if you are not after that high shine.
> ...





Why would I bother to do this???  I use Watco Danish oil and buy it by the gallons and it goes a long way. You save absolutely nothing money wise. There are also driers that are added to it to help in the drying process for your information in case you want to make your own.


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## corgicoupe (Jun 9, 2016)

I guess I bother because it allows me to know what is in the finish. Watch Danish oil is clearly an oil/varnish blend, but the ratio is an unknown,  and as you say, there are drying additives. No question it is a good product, but there are many others that mislead the user about what they are that I've gotten skeptical and have chosen to mix my own.

I have, though,  used the Minwax oil finishes, and even the wipe-on poly for a cherry bathroom sink table to get the water resistance. So I'm not hard-nosed about this, just an experimenter I guess. It comes from my training and my nature. (Having to answer your question has helped to clear it up in my own mind, so thanks for asking.)


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