# Penturners vs Big Manufacturers



## RonR (Jan 23, 2008)

Hello, I've been a pen lover for many years, but mainly a follower of the large pen manufacturers........Cross, Montblanc.....  Even with the best pen kits, do custom turned pens match or exceed the quality of the big pen manufacturers?

Lastly, in your opinion, who are the best penturners on this site or in the US.  I'm looking for a nice, cigar type rollerball pen......not sure if in acrylic or wood.

What's the most rarest and coolest looking wood out there?


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## rherrell (Jan 23, 2008)

> _Originally posted by RonR_
> 
> Hello, I've been a pen lover for many years, but mainly a follower of the large pen manufacturers........Cross, Montblanc.....  Even with the best pen kits, do custom turned pens match or exceed the quality of the big pen manufacturers?
> 
> ...


Why that would be me, of course, but I don't do Cigars.


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## pipeyeti (Jan 23, 2008)

Off topic a little but since you mentioned it.  I'm curious why don't you do cigar pens? The weight? the look? Would like your honest opinion.


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## Gary Max (Jan 23, 2008)

Oh No ---he's a pulling your leg---It's me.
Sorry I don't make cigars either--[8D]


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## byounghusband (Jan 23, 2008)

RonR,
YES, Custom Made Hand-Crafted pens are better IMNSHO!!!  
I couldn't really tell you who the BEST truner here is, as these are my friends and there are SO MANY GREAT turner here.  Some have turnerd a long time and produce exquisite pens and some are newer to this group and even turning. And they produce exquisite pens as well.
I don't know about "rarest", but I think Amboyna Burl is some of the prettiest wood.  Don't forget the custom castings made by a number of our members also!!


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## RonR (Jan 23, 2008)

Do custom penturned products match the quality of the big manufacturer' high end pens?

A Montblanc Legrand (black and yellow gold) runs close to $300.  For $300 will a custom penturned pen beat a Montblanc quality-wise?


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## alamocdc (Jan 23, 2008)

Welcome, Ron. Tough questions. IMO, the coolest looking woods wouldn't be considered the most rare, and the most rare aren't all that cool looking, but maybe that's just me. 

Concerning the first question, I believe many of our pens do indeed match (if not exceed in some cases) the quality of the big guys. 

For your last question, many of us would point to a number of our members, but I doubt you would reach a consensus. There is a lot of talent here. I would recommend browsing through the photo albums and see who has something like you are looking for, or who has shown the ability to meet your standards. Just a thought.


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## wpenm (Jan 23, 2008)

I do make Cigar Pens and I claim the title of being the best pen turner in the country! I am a legend in my own mind and the minds of my family. Do I win anything for this story?[}]


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## Rifleman1776 (Jan 23, 2008)

> _Originally posted by RonR_
> 
> Do custom penturned products match the quality of the big manufacturer' high end pens?
> 
> A Montblanc Legrand (black and yellow gold) runs close to $300.  For $300 will a custom penturned pen beat a Montblanc quality-wise?



Montblanc has developed a name and is considered pretty snobbish. Same with Rolex and Casio. Does the $10,000.00 Rolex tell time better than the $50.00 Casio? No.
To answer the question, IMHO, many of the fine pens we see here, and elsewhere, are far more elegant than any Montblanc.


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## CrazyBear (Jan 23, 2008)

RonR. In my opinion the quality of the kits( particulary the high end kits) will match or exceed those of the Mont Blancs of this world. The members of this forum ( while throwing in some jokes along the way) are constantly striving to make their pens better, and more importantly, unique. The members here are constantly collaberating in new techniques and trying new finishes.they are constantly pushing the boundries. Now the big boys might do that in their labs but you wont be able to buy those pens unless they can be mass produced. I would like to see some of the big boys attempt some of the pens that you will find in the albums here

Have a look around and then visit some of the personalwebsites of some of the members and you will see what I am talking about


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## aurrida (Jan 23, 2008)

i'm no pen turner, in fact i haven't even made one yet, i'm just about to start. but i can give you an opinion. i have just received some kits from csusa, gentleman and statesman and they are supper quality. i have also seen a few montblanc's, these kits easily match montblanc mid price quality. i'm in no doubt there will be a number of turners here who can provide you with a fantastic pen but why not make one yourself. for me it would mean a lot more than a platinum diamond studded montblanc. you could make a lot of pens for the price of one of those.


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## Gruntster (Jan 23, 2008)

There are a ton of great turners on this site. Browse through the gallery and the 'show off your pens' forum and contact a few. Go to the http://www.penmakersguild.com/ and look through their work. 
 What is the coolest most rare wood? Another very subjective question. Go to http://www.arizonasilhouette.com/and see what Bill has. Look through the classifieds here and see what catches your eye. See a picture of a pen you like? Email the turner and ask them what the wood is. 

  Good luck!
   Dan


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## GBusardo (Jan 23, 2008)

Ron,  There is a reason the big manufacturers don't do wood.....


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## rherrell (Jan 23, 2008)

Answer to come later? Hope everything comes out OK.


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## gerryr (Jan 23, 2008)

Whether the quality of the pens made by people on this site is up to the quality of a Mont Blanc, Visconti, Bexley, Omas or any other manufacturer is going to be very subjective and will depend entirely on what you define as quality.  I spent about $100 on a Cross fountain pen about 17 years ago and I never liked it, 18K nib and all, because of it's writing qualities.  I currently have a cheap Lami Safari that is light-years ahead of the Cross in writing quality.  I usually carry 4-5 fountain pens with me and, except for the Lami they all have 18K or 14K nibs and every one of them writes flawlessly.  I have a good customer who has a couple of MB Meisterstuck fountain pens and I've tried them.  He and I both agree that they don't write any better than the fountain pens I make with 18K nibs.  That's probably why he purchased nine fountain pens from me last year and I'm currently making two more for him.

As far as wood goes, you will find it very difficult to get agreement between any two turners about what is the nicest, rarest, or most beautiful wood because it's a personal opinion.  I tend to favor burls, Desert Ironwood being my favorite, but other people favor more readily available woods like Maple or Walnut.  You just need to look at pictures and see what you like, not what someone else likes.  Just remember that you won't find two pieces of wood that are identical.


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## ctwxlvr (Jan 23, 2008)

1 do the pens turners here match or exceed the quality of a MB? Most Do, esp on the high end kits.

2 who is the best pen turner here? look for some one who's work you like and check them out, each one of us has our own style and taste.

Now for the comparison here is the major differance from us and the "big guys" each one of our pens are a one of a kind ART work! Where the "big guys" you can buy 500+ of one pen style and they will all look the same. ours you can buy 500+ of a pens style and there will be 500+ pens where each one will look a little different, you can't make mother nature duplicate a piece of wood twice or the way a turner will hand cut that wood.


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## Malainse (Jan 23, 2008)

Ron,
Quality, yes we can craft a quality one of a kind writing instrument out of the material you want. Do not think it would be cost effective to call one of the big guys and ask that question..

The wood question is a tough one.....   Rare and cool lots of times do not go hand and hand.  It is in the eyes of the beholder...

Just to give you an idea.
RARE: Here is Mahogany from 1928 Christ Craft boat...







Cool:Nothing rare here Cherry/ Walnut Burl.


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## Scotty (Jan 23, 2008)

Mitch  point well made, those are very nice.  I have only made a few pens, but they are all capable of writting better than I can.  I would much rather have a hand-made item.


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## CrazyBear (Jan 23, 2008)

Just to add a point. The part where the pen kit meets the paper is ( if you use the pen as a writing instrument) the most important piece of the pen. In that case many of the kits use Cross,Parker, Montblanc and schmidt refills( to name a few) we use high quality nibs in the Fountain pens and specialist ink is also available. so the biggest difference between the Big boys and the pens made by our members is the casing that holds the writing mechanism. Thats when you see the difference between a handcrafted pen and a commercially mass produced item. Hand crafted wins out in my opinion


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## Jarheaded (Jan 23, 2008)

I make Cigar rollerball pens and the best wood is the one that calls out to you and says I'm special. You can buy a pen from a big manufactuer and if you have a problem with it, in 6-8 weeks you might get a reply to your request. If you buy from an honest penmaker and you have a problem, you will find that you don't have a problem, you have the penmaker that built the pen helping you find a cure that will make you happy. I have had a person tell me that their pen just stopped working and they were upset, after a breif phone conversation they came to my shop the next day. I replaced the empty ink cartridge with a new one and gave them a spare one for future use. I don't think a big manufactuer would do that for you. We are people just like you. You are not a big corporation and don't need to deal with one. This is all just my opinion though. As far as who is the best penmaker is also to be decided by the customer. I have made hundreds of pens and I do the best job that I can possibly do on each and every pen. I won't claim to be the best, but I will do the best I can for you. I take a lot of time to look at others work and I admire a lot of them. There are some great penmakers out there. I hope to someday be considered one of them.
Good luck in your search,
 Johnnie


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## Russianwolf (Jan 23, 2008)

Which is better quality:

1) The Burl trim on the dash of a Lexus

or

2) The Burl trim on the dash of a Rolls Royce

One is mass manufactured, the other Hand crafted.


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## RonR (Jan 23, 2008)

> _Originally posted by ctwxlvr_
> 
> 1 do the pens turners here match or exceed the quality of a MB? Most Do, esp on the high end kits.



What are the high end kits?  

I've seen the emperor, el toro, el presidente and navigator styles on this site in the photo section and really like them.

My current roller ball has a top that pops on and pops off.  I am looking for a top that screws on and screws off.

And everyone, thank you for all your comments!!!!!!!!!!!


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## loglugger (Jan 23, 2008)

RonR, you are the only one that can answer you questions. Try a few hand made and compare.
Bob


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## R2 (Jan 23, 2008)

What a Pandora's Box has been opened here! I think Riffleman1776 has made some very valid points about snob value. When I was akid an aunty of mine gave Dad a Giha fountain pen. I've not seen one before or since, It wrote beautifully with the right ink. It would have been expensive for my aunty to buy but not a really "topline" pen as she could not have afforded it. Simple fact was it wrote no better than my el cheapo Platignum that I used at school!
A few years back, just after I started turning, I sent some Pens to the wife's side of the family in Brazil. These are well off people by any stretch of the imagination.One relative wanted to know (before the gifts were sent) why they would want my handmade efforts (admittedly simple slimline tawists)  when they had Mont Blancs. !!! The result was no pens for them but a startling revelation that they never expected anything so beautiful when they saw what was sent. Obviously snobbery has its own rewards!
The pens made by members of this Association are the the result of individual skill, artistry and Labours of love. The results speak for themselves. I'm with our turners, not with Mont Blanc.


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## Rmartin (Jan 23, 2008)

Who's the best penmaker?

You're looking at him


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## Ron Mc (Jan 23, 2008)

If you are looking for a good quality pen that you will lay proudly next to the Mont Blancs (spelling?) then I would suggest the Junior Statesman style pen with a postable end cap.
I personally have one in my daily use collection and love the balance of it and the way it writes.

Good luck with your search and most importantly enjoy the works of art you will see as you enjoy the galleries and websites.


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## Aderhammer (Jan 23, 2008)

I good piece of "copper" desert ironwood imho.
I'm not going to post a pic because it looks one hundred times better in real life then it does on a photo, has a 3d effect on the wood and you will never find anything this beautiful on a cross,parker, motblanc etc.


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## IPD_Mrs (Jan 23, 2008)

Just a couple of my favorites .. we made both of these and you'll never see anything like them on any of the mass produced pens.  You have gotten a great deal of good advice.  Hang around here for a while, check out the show off your pens and all of the albums of the people who strike you as someone you would enjoy doing business with, form an opinion of what you like and don't like and go from there.  I think the hardest part of turning for me has already been letting go of the good ones.  When the talk to you, as in the top photo  (Desert Iron Wood Burl)  which provided the eye with many images (dog, frog, face etc.,) they aren't just pens.... they are works of art and labors of love.  We don't do this just to make thousands of dollars like Mont B etc.  We do it because we love it.
There is a huge difference.

Linda


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## Brewmeister35 (Jan 23, 2008)

Hi Ron, have a peek through my album.  The other high end kits I have in mine are the Imperial, Statesman, Gentleman, and Gent Jr.  The "baron" is same as the Navigator.


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## TellicoTurning (Jan 23, 2008)

RonR,
There's a shop in NYC that sells pen... they have many of the same blank materials that we use every day, they have pens that sell for as much as $3700.. the trim on the pens are no more elaborate, no more ornate than what is used by all of the skilled turners here... They are selling a known name, not necessarily a better pen.

I agree with several posts here... go to the albumns and pick a look you like and go from there.


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## RonR (Jan 24, 2008)

I have looked thru several galleries, visited the pen guild site and several members' websites.........all A-1 looking pens.  Thank you for all the great advice.  Now to narrow it down to pen kit and wood/acrylic choice.....decisions, decisions. 

What is the most expensive pen kit for a rollerball?


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## Kaspar (Jan 24, 2008)

> _Originally posted by RonR_
> 
> I have looked thru several galleries, visited the pen guild site and several members' websites.........all A-1 looking pens.  Thank you for all the great advice.  Now to narrow it down to pen kit and wood/acrylic choice.....decisions, decisions.
> 
> What is the most expensive pen kit for a rollerball?



The Imperial from CSUSA.  







Also, I will second Arizona Desert Ironwood ...






... but I am having a hard time getting any of that lately.  I know of a place that sells exhibition grade, but you have to buy 100 blanks.


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## PenWorks (Jan 24, 2008)

> _Originally posted by RonR_
> 
> Even with the best pen kits, do custom turned pens match or exceed the quality of the big pen manufacturers?



Ron, your question is pretty broad. You can interpet BIG Mfg a couple of ways. There are large mfg that make crap pens, then there are large mfg that make good pens. There are penturners that make exquistie pens, then there are penturners that make, well lets say not so exquisite pens.[)] There are also good pen parts and crap pen parts. One's interpitaion of a high end pen might be $50.00 and another $100.00, to me, a high end pen starts at $750.00 and up.

I think I make nice production pens from the 50 to 200 range. I would compare them as equall or better than some companies pens.
If I were to compare them to my newest pen I bought, a Visconti Romantica, I haven't seen a pen by a penturner that equalls the design, engineering or quality of that pen. 

So when comparing, one needs to compare apples with apples, not apples and oranges. 

I carry a lot of pens in my store, but I am proud to say, you will not find one MB


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## cd18524 (Jan 24, 2008)

I would have to agree with DIW burl.  Of course it would have to be the highest grade.  There is also a lot of wonderful things that can be done with simple wood and great segmenting.

chris


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## jskeen (Jan 24, 2008)

OK, opinion warning!

The imperial, lotus and a couple other pen kits probably all are within a few bucks of being the most expensive kits out there.  But, if you look at them, compared to other kits from the same chinese manufacturer, what you are paying for is more gingerbread (sometimes way too much gingerbread, IMHO) on a kit of the same basic materials and quality.  There are some "collector grade" kits out there made in limited quantities, serial numbered, and with "better" materials, but it's fountain pen only, no rollerball.  

Now.  If you want to maximize the wow factor on your custom pen, you could consider spending the extra $ on a really exceptional wood blank, and put it on a good quality less fancy kit, and you will have a one of a kind pen that stands out even more against factory built pens.  A really spectacular wood can sometimes tend to clash with the more ornamented kits like the lotus or imperial, where it is truly showcased on a gent or a statesman, IMHO.  Nature is far superior in artistry to man.  

James


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## gerryr (Jan 24, 2008)

> _Originally posted by jskeen_
> 
> OK, opinion warning!
> 
> ...



I think you understated that by a rather large amount.  I don't make Lotus, Imperial, Emperor or Majestic pens.  The fanciest pen I make is a Statesman and so far I haven't found a wood or synthetic that's too highly figured for it.  Those excessive "bling" kits, IMO, look terrible with a highly figured wood and that's what I prefer to use.


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## Brewmeister35 (Jan 24, 2008)

I agree with you two to a point however, those are IMO the highest quality kits.  They have no enamel and are completely plated with high quality materials.  I've made Imperials with buckeye burl and Amboyna and they were both gorgeous pens.  I think it's all a matter of taste really.


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## Kaspar (Jan 24, 2008)

I feel that the Imperial with Black Titanium is a stunning pen kit, possibly my favorite fancy kit, and goes well with plain or fancy (if the blank goes with the BT).  Otherwise, yeah, I agree that as general rule "fancy kit for a plain blank, plain kit for a fancy blank."  And of course, one may break the rule now and then.


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## Kaspar (Jan 24, 2008)

> _Originally posted by jskeen_
> 
> OK, opinion warning!
> ... Nature is far superior in artistry to man.
> ...



I disagree.  I've seen white micapearl blanks from HUT that are as gorgeous as anything nature-made.  Not always, but some are incredible. 











(Wish I'd picked a better kit for that last one.  But I was young and stupid then.  Now I am slightly older and slightly less stupid - I hope.  In fact, I need to find that pen, knock that kit out and put something better in ...)


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## Kaspar (Jan 24, 2008)

> ... but I am having a hard time getting any of that lately.  I know of a place that sells exhibition grade, but you have to buy 100 blanks.



Sorry, there was a misunderstanding in my recent communication with that supplier.  No bulk orders are required and yes, they are available.


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