# finish for newbie



## ryankelley (Dec 5, 2008)

I just started turning pens, 7 slimlines to be exact.  I got shellawax with the starter kit, the finish looks good until I assemble the pen, then the shine disappears.  I wait and let the pen sit for 45-60 min before assembly. I have been reading, watching and working on blo/ca finish, but in the mean time what other finish can I use.  Some co-workers would like to buy some pens for gifts and I would like to offer a pen with a nice finish.  Also what is a good price for a basic slimline.  Thank you, any help would be great.


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## ldb2000 (Dec 5, 2008)

Hi Ryan and welcome to the group .
If you want a fast durable finish CA can't be beat , it's worth learning . 
If you don't mind waiting for it to dry you could try Minwax Fast dry Poly . I've recently switched from CA to this Poly finish and don't regret it at all , it has fantastic depth and it's used for floors so you know it's durable .
Here's a link to a great tutorial  http://content.penturners.org/articles/2008/minwaxfinish.pdf


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## jkeithrussell (Dec 5, 2008)

Short of a CA finish, I think the best you can do is thorough sanding through at least 1500, plus EEE, plus friction polish like Mylands. That shine should last for a while. I typically assemble the pen right away and have never had one lose its shine during assembly. 

Getting a good CA finish is hard -- I'm still trying to figure it out -- but it is very durable.

Oh, as for the price:  click on the links to the websites of some of the members here on the forum and you will get a good idea of the range of prices.


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## Daniel (Dec 5, 2008)

You need to seal the wood in some way before you apply the wax, otherwise the wood starts absorbing the wax. This is what causes the magical vanishing finish.


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## Larry Gottlieb (Dec 5, 2008)

Ryan,

The makers of Shellawax Ubeaut, state that it is to be used on "raw" wood then allowed to sit for a week before handling (assembling pen or applying wax).

It can be applied after using EEE ( which they also make)

Larry


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## ldb2000 (Dec 5, 2008)

The biggest problem with any friction polish finish is that it won't last very long . It starts out looking great , nice and shiny but after a month or two of handling it will wear off and the wood will absorb oils and sweat from peoples hands and become dull and dirty . If your ever planning on selling or even just giving your pens to anyone you will want a finish that will last more then a month or two .


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## Jim Smith (Dec 5, 2008)

I second the vote for the Poly wipe on finish.  It takes more time in that you have to apply several coats and wait 4-8 hours between coats for it to dry, but it gives a beautiful finish every time.  I still use CA, but if I have a blank that I want a super glossy finish, I use wipe on poly.  Follow the link to the article here on IAP and I think you'll be very happy with the results.

Jim Smith


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## devowoodworking (Dec 5, 2008)

Hi Ryan, CA/BLO is really one of the best finishes but.......... until you get the hang of it, you could use a method I use for my puzzles;
mix some lacquer with thinner 1/1 ratio, wipe on wipe off, then buff if possible with Beal system or go straight to either TSW or Renaissance wax:wink:


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## DSallee (Dec 5, 2008)

I'm having the same problem with CA finishes... looks GREAT after final coat and buffing.. but after I let it set and assemble it, the shine disappears...

Thanks for that link BTW... I'm gonna try that on my next one I do... one question though... Do you prefer "wipe on" or "spray on" in the poly??  I already have a can of minwax spray on I was going to use for another project....

Dave


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## leehljp (Dec 5, 2008)

DSallee said:


> I'm having the same problem with CA finishes... looks GREAT after final coat and buffing.. but after I let it set and assemble it, the shine disappears...
> Dave



Dave,

The problem is _not_ with "CA finish and the shine disappearing". CA "shines" when sanded with MM through even 6000 - even without waxing. If there is "no" shine, it is because there is "no" CA there. There is 99.9% chance that the CA was sanded off. Lately I have been reading that people have been applying 2, 3, or 4 coats of thin CA and wondering why it is not shining. "Thin" puts on miniscule layers, sanding takes considerable off.

Typical CA shine, click here. 

The shine disappears because the "wax" is dissolving, soaking in, vaporizing or what ever from the "surface of the wood". The diminishing shine is not because of CA but from a lack of CA. When wax dissolves, vaporizes or other wise fades away from on top of a 'full layer' of CA finish, there is still a shine there as noted in the duck calls above. 

Part 2:
_The makers of Shellawax Ubeaut, state that it is to be used on "raw" wood then allowed to sit for a week before handling (assembling pen or applying wax)._

Larry, I know you are a PMG member, however, new people coming into pen making - all to often take simple instructions the wrong way. The above statement will cause new pen turners to start replying that they tried it and it didn't work. That (it doesn't work) has been repeated many many times. 


For new pen turners - Real SHINES should *not* be dependent upon WAX and Wax Creams, the shine should come from the underlying finishing process such as CA, Poly, Acrylic, Lacquer OVER an adequately or properly done sanding/buffing procedure.  

. . . The truth is - Wax does not make for a good pen finish - except for a person who is meticulous with cleaning and waxing the pen after each use. If that is what you want OK. IF that is what a customer wants, that is OK too. But the human oils from sweaty hands and humid shirt pockets are very caustic and will eat through the best of waxes quickly and attract very unattractive soiling. 

Wax is fine on top of CA, acrylic, lacquer, poly. But Wax should not be the substitute for a properly done underlying finish process.

Waxes and creams are super on top of flat work furniture where body humidity and sweaty palms are not in contact with it for 12 to 14 hours a day. Wax/Creams can be applied in the same way on a pen but the wax/cream will not stand up the same way because they are used in a different environment on a pen - than in a room as furniture is.


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## DSallee (Dec 5, 2008)

Thanks for the in depth on this Hank... I was thinking of trying the Minwax Polyurethane clear gloss in place of the CA? would this work?

Dave


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## leehljp (Dec 5, 2008)

DSallee said:


> Thanks for the in depth on this Hank... I was thinking of trying the Minwax Polyurethane clear gloss in place of the CA? would this work?
> 
> Dave



Absolutely, IMO. I haven't tried poly but Daniel does and if he says it, I would trust it 100%. The poly that he uses is for floors, which is the hard kind and should work fine. I can't get it here.

BTW, I really like your avatar - Has "DSallee" written all through it.


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## DSallee (Dec 5, 2008)

leehljp said:


> ........BTW, I really like your avatar - Has "DSallee" written all through it.



Thanks Hank,

It's actually an L and an S overlapped in a certain font I found.... I was making my banner for my website and happen to get these overlapped by accident and it just popped!   

Oh, the L and S is from my original heritage name LaSalle' from the 1600's from France.... just so happens he was a carpenter by trade.... 

Definitely unique! Which is what I was looking for for my logo....

Dave


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## Larry Gottlieb (Dec 5, 2008)

I did not mean to convince new turners to use Shellawax. My statement was to describe what the makers say is their recommended use.

I have tried Shellawax and it looks good. As many have stated, the finish does not stand up to handling.

I tested the Shellawax as the manufacturers specified. That is applying shellawax and letting sit for a week. I did this on the upper half of a pen.

The bottom half was finished with BLO/CA (By the way Hank, 3 coats of thin CA-no sanding, just polish with EEE)

I then subjected the pen to extensive handling and rubbing, trying to give equal amounts to both half.

The Shellawax half lost it's gloss and the CA half showed no wear.

I use CA!!!

Larry


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## NewLondon88 (Dec 5, 2008)

Larry Gottlieb said:


> Ryan,
> The makers of Shellawax Ubeaut, state that it is to be used on "raw" wood then allowed to sit for a week before handling (assembling pen or applying wax).
> It can be applied after using EEE ( which they also make)
> Larry



Well .. yes and no. That's what the website says. But when it was
repeated to a new turner on the UBeaut group the owner got quite
upset. Also indicated that it wasn't really best to use with EEE. So there's
still some questions in my mind.

I know I have some trouble with shellac based friction polishes, as the
acids in my skin seem to attack finishes. That's somewhat unusual, but
I'm not unique. Either way, I think waiting a week isn't such a bad thing. .

but one thing many new turners miss about using Hut or Crystal Coat is
the heat. You have to HEAT that polish! You need the heat in order to melt
that stuff right into the wood and cure the finish.

After applying a thin, even coat, hold the cloth to the blank and pinch it
tightly, hold it in place and wait till it starts smoking before you move to
another spot. That's right..SMOKING!

YOU NEED THE HEAT! Do this all over the blank so you get a  nice shiny
finish.

Now, DON'T TOUCH IT!  Let it cool. Give it a while, then you can
remove the mandrel. But if your finish is dulling, I'd recommend wearing
cotton gloves to remove the blanks from the mandrel.. or you could touch
them with a soft cloth. BUT .. if the finish isn't fully cured or cooled,
you could leave an impression in the finish .. an impression of the cloth.

So I usually just slide the blanks off the mandrel, bushings and all. I slide
them onto pieces of hard brake line (hey .. it was there) that I have stuck
into drilled holes in a thick pine shelf. They stand out horizontal, so I can
slide the blanks off the mandrel just like beads on an abacus.


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