# metal lathe for custom pens



## watch_art (Aug 6, 2012)

So it was suggested to me that I need to start saving for a nice metal lathe.
This is the one that was suggested...
G9972Z 11" x 26" Bench Lathe w/ Gearbox

How difficult would it be to create the curves and bulges that I like with a metal lathe?

Thanks!


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## Autonoz (Aug 7, 2012)

I am a novice, but I have found a metal lathe works great for customs. I still use my wood lathe for shaping.


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## Curly (Aug 7, 2012)

Shawn metal lathes for the most part do not do curves easily. You can however put a tool rest on it so you can use your woodworking tools and techniques to do the curved work portion. Remember also the speeds on that lathe are not as high as you would have with your wood lathe so if you are a "let'r rip" turner you will need to get used to that. Also know your wood lathe chucks and such will not fit the metal lathe.

The best way to see a metal lathe is as a complementary lathe to your wood turning lathe not as an enhanced replacement.


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## Tom_W (Aug 7, 2012)

*Tools*

Hi

The best way to make bulges and forms with a metal lathe is to make a tool that cuts that form in one move and then blend in the shape with the straight parts.

i.e. if you want to cut a semi-circle bulge, set a grinding stone of that shape and 'stone' out the form in a piece of tool steel and then use this to make the form on the final product. 

It is a lot slower that producing a form with a hand guided wood tool on wood but the tool once made will produce a exact replica that is repeatable.

One caution is that to cut wide forms in metal needs a lot of minute movement patience or a powerful (and rock-rigid) lathe as to form cross section increases :biggrin:

T  

T


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## John Den (Aug 7, 2012)

watch_art said:


> So it was suggested to me that I need to start saving for a nice metal lathe.
> This is the one that was suggested...
> G9972Z 11" x 26" Bench Lathe w/ Gearbox



Nice looking lathe! Like the idea of a gearbox and change wheels for screw cutting.

Should do you very nicely.

Regards,
John


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## frank123 (Aug 7, 2012)

If it is for pens only, that large a lathe is overkill.  If it is for other projects as well it is a good choice.  Don't overlook the weight factor.

You can use the metal lathe for all the basic machining operations such as initial turning to close to overall max size of the pen, drilling, threading, etc. and do the final shape forming on the wood lathe more easily than trying to do the final shape forming on a metal lathe alone,  

The metal lathe gives you an advantage in making wholly custom pens since you can make any sort of mandrel or bushing to your exact needs for the pen you are wanting to make.  If you're making fountain pens, the section is a really easy project to make on the metal lathe and shifting to the wood lathe to shape it (something I've had difficulty doing on the metal or wood lathe alone).


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## mredburn (Aug 7, 2012)

Your options would be as mentioned, a specially made contoured tool, Hand filing it to shape, or cnc lathe. It has also been mentioned that this lathe is overkill for pen parts. The Micro Mark 7x16 vs would do everything  you need, and  is cheaper Yet. You will have to decide what your full use of a metal lathe will be. How good are you at an etch -a -sketch?
The bigger your lathe the bigger the part you can make. will you need to make an 11 inch diameter pen part, car part or what ever?


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## Dalecamino (Aug 7, 2012)

Etch-a-sketch is the best way I've found. Minus the clamp on tool post for wood tools. It gives you the opportunity to screw up, and start over, OR get it right. So far, so good.:biggrin:


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## Haynie (Aug 7, 2012)

Why was a metal lathe suggested if all you plan to do is make pens and pen parts?


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## Simplex (Aug 7, 2012)

I agree with the others that the size of that lathe is overkill.  I have a HF 7"x12" that is plenty big for making pens.  Achieving contours with basic metal lathe tooling will be difficult.  However, these just came on market that might make things easier; never used one but they certainly look promising.


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## mredburn (Aug 7, 2012)

neat tool but  $400.00


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## Simplex (Aug 7, 2012)

mredburn said:


> neat tool but  $400.00



I hear ya.  $400 is bit steep in my opinion, too.


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## jd99 (Aug 7, 2012)

Simplex said:


> mredburn said:
> 
> 
> > neat tool but $400.00
> ...


Looks like it's way over kill to me, for that kind of sizes, it's a lot cheaper to just grind form tools.

Used to make concave, and convex cuts using a bar off the headstock, or tailstock all the time, but we are talking larger sizes. Then there is always tracer lathes, but all this was replaced by CNC's 

Also used to turn shaped parts using a template attached to the ways, and an indicator following the template attached to the cross slide, and bump it in and out as the carriage was being fed under power.

Used to have to be a little creative to make stuff back in the dark ages before computers got involved. :wink:


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## watch_art (Aug 7, 2012)

So what you guys are saying is that it would be easy to create a form, say the same contour as what the barrel would be, and have the lathe tool sort of follow along it?

Does anybody have pics or links or videos they can show?

Thanks!


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## jd99 (Aug 7, 2012)

I think they mean you just use your same tools as you use now to turn the shape you just need a tool holder that has a tool rest like your wood lathe, 

A metal lathe will give you more options in the way of threading and precision and if you ever want to turn pens with straight body's that also.

But you wouldn't need one that large if your only concern is turning pens.


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## mredburn (Aug 7, 2012)

watch_art said:


> So what you guys are saying is that it would be easy to create a form, say the same contour as what the barrel would be, and have the lathe tool sort of follow along it?
> 
> Does anybody have pics or links or videos they can show?
> 
> Thanks!



No, just the opposite.


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## Haynie (Aug 7, 2012)

There are lots of plans to make your own tool like this one if you are so inclined.


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## skiprat (Aug 7, 2012)

Please don't be dissuaded from buying a good sized lathe. Sure, if you want to just make small individual parts and *never* anything else, then a smaller one would do.
However, the golden rule with metal lathes is to buy the longest heaviest one you can afford. It is a sound investment. If you later find that it's not for you then it will be easier to sell to folks that are wishing to upgrade.
( have you ever heard of someone wanting to *downgrade* to a smaller metal lathe??? )

Mine is a 10 x 21 and I often wish it was a bit longer ( no, not that !!!:biggrin: )

One with loose change gears is infinitely better than a restricted set box. 

Here is a pic of mine about to start with a HB360 blank. It has a router mounted on the topslide, which is mounted on a piece of ally bar, that is held in a vertical slide. I eventually had to remove the tailstock even though it is a 21incher


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## Paul in OKC (Aug 7, 2012)

watch_art said:


> So what you guys are saying is that it would be easy to create a form, say the same contour as what the barrel would be, and have the lathe tool sort of follow along it?
> 
> Does anybody have pics or links or videos they can show?
> 
> Thanks!



Yes, it can be done. I have made a simple pattern bar for the taper of a shaft on a pool cue and mounted it to a lathe, and set up a way for the tool to follow. Would be a little more complicated on a small lathe, but doable.


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## Paul in OKC (Aug 7, 2012)

Simplex said:


> I agree with the others that the size of that lathe is overkill.  I have a HF 7"x12" that is plenty big for making pens.  Achieving contours with basic metal lathe tooling will be difficult.  However, these just came on market that might make things easier; never used one but they certainly look promising.



Looks like a knuckle bustiing waiting to happen!


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## Haynie (Aug 7, 2012)

skiprat said:


> buy the longest heaviest one you can afford.




Words to live by.  These puppies are heavy.  Keep that in mind because once you get it where you want it you are not going to happily want to move it again.  I moved mine this summer. Doing it by myself meant breaking out the forklift.  Everyone needs a fork lift.


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## jj9ball (Aug 7, 2012)

I agree with the other posts that say buy tools bigger than you need.  I have the 12 x 36 grizzly and it works great for pens.  It works REALLY good for precise drilling on kitless pens.  It has a 4 inch quill travel so I can get it all in one swing.  A metal lathe is one of those gateway tools.  You get one and then your realize you can do all these other things.  For that reason you should get the biggest and best that your budget allows and who knows what you'll end up using it for.  Pens may be just the starting point.


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## bitshird (Aug 7, 2012)

I'd also say that it's a bit large for pens, BUT the gear box is worth it, Also I don't remember any one I know complaining about buying a bigger lathe than was needed at the moment,              ((Until they had to move it)) 
The only thing I see that I don't like is a nut to lock down the tail stock.
 BUT that can be fixed, I made a cam lock for the tail on my jet 9x20, Not hard to do since it already comes with a four jaw. I like it. and most Grizzly lathes are pretty decent. But as soon, or if ever, I can afford it I want to get either the Micro Mark 7x16 or the LMS High torque, Both are great, Possibly better customer service through LMS though.


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## plantman (Aug 8, 2012)

I have been turning on a Mini Micro Lathe for over 30 years. I hardly, if ever, use any tools other than metal files or rasps. They come in flats, rounds, triangles, convex, or any other shape you can think of. The metal lathe can do anything a wood lathe can do and a lot more. Its accurate to within .0010 of an inche or more. If you are going to make a lot of the same shape pens for an order, buy a duplacater for your lathe and make your own design template for it using your metal files. I could go on and on about the advantages of a metal lathe. If I need to turn something bigger, I have other lathes to use depending on size needed. Jim S
Trackback:


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## randyrls (Aug 8, 2012)

watch_art said:


> This is the one that was suggested...
> G9972Z 11" x 26" Bench Lathe w/ Gearbox
> 
> How difficult would it be to create the curves and bulges that I like with a metal lathe?



Shawn;  Metal lathes are intended to turn objects round and exactly to size, but, curves aren't part of their normal makeup.  You can make a tool rest and use a normal wood lathe tool as others have mentioned.

As far as this particular lathe is concerned, it appears to be a 9x20 enlarged and on steroids.  The 9x20 lathe I have has a number of design limitations.  These comments apply to the 9x20, and *MAY* apply to this lathe also. Notice I said may the designers may have addressed the limits of the 9x20 in this larger lathe.

1.  The compound 2 bolt mount isn't very rigid.  Many people replace the mount with a 4 bolt or John Pitkin - Donut Mount.  This is the most serious limitation of the 9x20 and is a MUST DO!

2.  The tail stock lock doesn't have a handle.  You need to turn a hex head bolt to move and lock the tail stock.  This gets old very fast and a Cam-Lock handle makes things much easier and faster.

3.  Some times you just need variable speed. There are no "drop in" variable speed packages for metal lathes.  VS conversions are documented and can be done.

I hope this helps.


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## BKelley (Aug 8, 2012)

My 2 cents worth, yes that lathe is overkill for pens.  Will you be doing larger work that would require a lathe of this size?  Personally, I would not go over a 9 x 20.
My LMS 8.5 x 16 does a great job on pens.  It has a few features not available on 
7 X's and even the 9x20's.  The metal lathe will make any shape the wood lathe will.
If you can, get some hands on experience on several size lathes and then go with the one you feel most confortable with.

Ben


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## plantman (Aug 8, 2012)

*metal lathes*



randyrls said:


> watch_art said:
> 
> 
> > This is the one that was suggested...
> ...


 
 Randy: Seems to me you have never used a metal lathe from your statement!! As I said you can do anything a wood lathe can do and much more!!! Safely!! A lathe is a lathe. It turns an object in a circular motion. What happens after that depends on the skill and thoughtfulness of the user. Turning bumps, humps, tapers, and convex indentations using metal files is easy compared to a wood lathe. Also if you need special parts for some machine or you want to build another lathe, you can do it. Try that with a wood lathe. I'm not saying everyone should have a metal lathe! I'm saying if your going to put out a sum of money for a lathe, it's nice to have the best of both worlds in one machine. Most metal lathes come with a tool rest. Look through some of the photos on this site and see what amazing things that only a metal lathe can do. End of rant!!  Jim S


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## Rich L (Aug 8, 2012)

A couple of things:

Weight and rigidity are king. If you are going to start turning and threading metal parts you are going to want those two things. They give you precision and surface finish. Secondary effects are the ability to cut through stock without undue chatter and frustration.

The higher up you go in the chain the more, and better, attachments you can find for it to enhance capability like radius attachments and taper attachments. You'll also get threading flexibility with additional change gear combinations.

It's bucks and intent but realize that inexpensive and lightweight lathes will have their limitations that can turn up easily into a quality question. 500lbs is still in the "lightweight" range. You may be just tickled with the Griz - and I hope so. There was some good advice earlier in the thread to go find some various sized and origined lathes about town and try them out, first.

On another note, I've been quite happy and successful using a file for curves. You can say it's hand shaped!

Cheers,
Rich


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