# Why it's hard to get a decent pr4ice for a nice pen



## bitshird (Dec 8, 2011)

Look at the prices this person gets for his pens, and they aren't exactly junk, 

http://www.ebay.com/sch/amberjo99/m...80786126324&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&_trksid=p43


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## Drstrangefart (Dec 8, 2011)

Holy c##p. Part of my soul just died.


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## wiset1 (Dec 8, 2011)

I see opening bid prices, but not a reserve.  Some have a buy now option, but...it's their work!  Put a value on your pens and stick to it, let others price pens as they see fit...respectfully.


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## graham murfin (Dec 8, 2011)

*selling pens*

maybe he's packing up(finishing his hobby)
GRAHAM


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## bensoelberg (Dec 8, 2011)

It's a shame that he's putting such nice wood on 24K kits.


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## bitshird (Dec 8, 2011)

I'd like the Amboyna on the Triton,  I can't build one for that!!!


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## butchf18a (Dec 8, 2011)

Who Cares? First of all it's EBay, I've never seen anyone get what a handmade pen is worth in that venue. That said, you aren't in competition with that person, so who cares. He is doing what he wants, apparently happy with the results, so who cares if he's making money or not. I truly can not get over how many people on this site continually get all worked up over what someone else is doing and the perceived threat to them or our hobby. I just don't care.


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## Seer (Dec 8, 2011)

His work his choice more power to him doesn't bother me at all.


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## G1Pens (Dec 8, 2011)

I dont worry about what anyone else sells their pens for. Especially on ebay. He is devaluing himself, his time and his work.


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## NewLondon88 (Dec 8, 2011)

i'm not surprised someone is concerned. You can't ignore the fact
that someone who under-prices their product can have an effect
on the rest of us. It tells the consumer that this is all the product
is worth.
You can claim it doesn't matter to you, claim it all you want.
But it DOES affect your customer's perception of fair value if 
you sell the same product. 

How many of us look at a $50 tool in the catalog and then
think "Well, it's only $37 on Amazon.."

The catalog has the right to price it how they want, but you
(the customer) now have it in your head that it is only worth
the lowest price you've found. Our customers are no different.


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## Rick P (Dec 8, 2011)

He isn't even covering materials! He IS keeping the wife from bitching about how much he spends. Again we make a luxury product, EBay users are not MY target customer!


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## bitshird (Dec 8, 2011)

NewLondon88 said:


> i'm not surprised someone is concerned. You can't ignore the fact
> that someone who under-prices their product can have an effect
> on the rest of us. It tells the consumer that this is all the product
> is worth.
> ...



Charlie, that's exactly my point, I don't won't and would not sell my pens or tools on eBay, But people see this and next time they see a pen maker at a show, they may remember what they saw,. His work may be crap, but it's hard to tell from the small pictures on eBay, and as far as a customer sees it's the same thing. These guys do hurt those of us that try and sell a decent Pen at a good price.


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## Displaced Canadian (Dec 8, 2011)

I think you guys are missing an even bigger issue. Those pens look good, the prices are low, and THERE ARE NO BIDS ON THEM. Makes me think that the handmade pen market is quite small.


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## G1Pens (Dec 8, 2011)

Displaced Canadian said:


> I think you guys are missing an even bigger issue. Those pens look good, the prices are low, and THERE ARE NO BIDS ON THEM. Makes me think that the handmade pen market is quite small.


 
If you look at his feedback. He has sold a lot of pens.

However, I think the people that visit ebay and the people that visit shows do not overlap as much as we think. The ebay shopper is a different breed.

I don't disagree that it has an impact. I just don't think the impact is as great as some would have us believe.

I kind of compare it to the Walmart shopper and the specialty store shopper. Two entirely different buyers....and yes Walmart has an impact a huge impact...but their welcome growing thin. Many communites block the building of stores and I personally know many people who refuse to shop there for various reasons.


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## ghostrider (Dec 8, 2011)

Many moons ago, Best Buy tried their hand at entering the high end speaker market. They came out with a line of speakers that were competitive enough, and at a fourth the price of what most of the higher end speakers were costing at the specialty stores. Even today that brand still has a following (albeit small). 

However, there was one small factor that BB did not take into consideration.

"People don't shop at Best Buy for high end speakers, and they certainly wouldn't want their friends to know they went there."

The program lasted long enough for the employees to take advantage of their discount. 

Right now, I price my pens at whatever I think they are worth. Some I price lower than what I may perceive another turner to be selling, some I may price higher than what I perceive another turner to be pricing his equivalent.

I'm not doing this to be in a business, although the money is nice. I don't think the pen maker who charges $100 more for his pen (than I do) has to worry about me cutting into his profits, because I doubt his customers would even so much as look my way if I was sitting right next to him. 

China makes a product of the very quality that our companies want them to. They could make it just as good as us, but then it would devalue our manufacture, so our companies have them traditionally make a product of lesser quality in order to make themselves look better. 

Likewise, take a television, and price it at $1000.00 at Best Buy only to see people scoff at it. Then take that same set, and price it at $7500.00 at the high fidelity store that caters to those who can't find enough things to spend their money on. It won't stay in stock. 

Some of those pens look like a good deal. 

Thanks for the link. :wink:


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## Smitty37 (Dec 8, 2011)

*Tough market*

eBay is a highly competitive market and if you want to sell there you need to price accordingly.  There are things that I buy which I can get at eBay for less money than locally or via Amazon, so some things I buy there.  

Pens, will generally speaking not command a high price there regardless of how good they are.  

Pen kits do not command a high price there regardless of who is selling them (and I speak from several years of personal experience on this subject), if you want to sell very many you need to figure on discounting pretty heavily and I don't much care who your supplier is..

Cheap pens do not drive expensive pens out of the market.  If you're buyers are eBay shoppers you'll need to charge eBay prices, If they're not then they probably won't have a clue of whether your prices are high or low.  I am not sure a lot of people browse eBay at random, I think they go with specifics.  Some people it's the first place they go, other's it's about the last.


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## studioso (Dec 8, 2011)

you can check all his completed listings. he sells a lot, actually


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## nava1uni (Dec 9, 2011)

What someone else sells their pens for is their business.  I understand the argument of  devaluing other's work, but I sell my work for what I believe it to be worth and if people like it then they buy it.  It doesn't seen that my sales are affected by the pricing of others work.  If I have what the person is looking for and it is the quality that they want then they purchase it.


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## phillywood (Dec 9, 2011)

Ken, my friend it's just what ever rocks his boat is that counts, not what you and I think. Yes it brings our image down, but as it was said before above. The ebay buyer is just that. You ain't going to change them. Also, how many of us buy our stuff form ebay if we can get a good price on it?


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## williamcr (Dec 9, 2011)

I would bet that he is just charging enough to cover his materials to make the pens and taking a loss on general pen making supplies.  This would keep the significant other happy and make just enough money to keep the hobby going.  If that makes someone happy then all the more power to them.


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## OLDMAN5050 (Dec 9, 2011)

I bid on one of his ambonia burl cigar a few weeks ago. it wound up selling for $36.00 I dropped out at 15. so he does pretty well on occasion..............


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## SDB777 (Dec 9, 2011)

OLDMAN5050 said:


> I bid on one of his ambonia burl cigar a few weeks ago. it wound up selling for $36.00 I dropped out at 15. so he does pretty well on occasion..............


 

And you never really know how many accounts he has....I know it's not supposed to happen, but it does.  You may have been bidding against his 'other self'....



Scott (only he know for sure) B


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## Carl Fisher (Dec 9, 2011)

He has a BIN of $29 on 2 sierra's.  one is titanium, the other platinum both with feather blanks. 

He must be getting a heck of a deal on his blanks and kits to sell 2 for what works out to $15 each.  I know I couldn't build those kit that cheap with feather blanks.

I do get a kick out of his description though that these pens take a "CROSS PARKER REFILL".  That'll confuse a customer.


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## DurocShark (Dec 9, 2011)

I'm thinking I should buy his pens and resell them... :wink:


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## dgerwin11 (Dec 9, 2011)

What is a "decent" price?  We all need to factor in our costs and overhead and a value on our time to reach a selling price.  Then we need to consider our market.  I say, let each of us reach a decision that works for us.  Just don't try to chastise me if you don't like my prices.  I won't be bullied into doing what some one else wants me to do at the expense of my ability to do what works best for me.


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## Smitty37 (Dec 9, 2011)

*Value*

There is another way to figure his "costs" kits + wood + finish materials = cost.  Value of time is zero.  How can that be?  Easy, what would he be getting for his time if he wasn't making pens?  The answer to that folks, is zero for a lot of us.  While those still in the work force can say "my time is worth X" a retired gentleman such as myself (or even a working person who would rather turn pens that watch football on the weekend) can say "what would I be doing if I wasn't making this pen and how much would I be earning while doing it?"  

The answer might well be "Sitting in my easy chair working a Sudoku puzzle and in that case turning a pen might be a form of recreation and I am more accustomed to paying for recreation than getting paid for it so anything beyond the cost of my materials is pure profit.


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## williamcr (Dec 10, 2011)

> What is a "decent" price? We all need to factor in our costs and overhead and a value on our time to reach a selling price. Then we need to consider our market. I say, let each of us reach a decision that works for us. Just don't try to chastise me if you don't like my prices. I won't be bullied into doing what some one else wants me to do at the expense of my ability to do what works best for me


 
Stick to your guns and don't let anyone bully you about your prices.  I will charge what i think is fair for my pens no matter what anybody else says.


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## NewLondon88 (Dec 10, 2011)

where did this 'bullying' come from? I didn't see anyone bullying
anyone about this..
Sheesh.. if people are going to get all defensive about something
that happened, shouldn't it be something that actually happened? :tongue:


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## dgerwin11 (Dec 10, 2011)

Upon further reflection,  maybe "bullying" is not the best word in this case.  But there does seem to be push back from some members if someone does not price their pens the way some think they should.  As a new turner with no reputation, no matter how good a pen I make, I most likely will not get top $ for my work.  I price it at what I hope to be reasonable.  I am proud of my time, and I price accordingly.  But if I am too proud of my time, I can come down in price if need be.


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## warthog (Dec 10, 2011)

People sell their wares to cheap...and that just cheapens every body elses. I went through the same thing in another business that I tried to get started. Other people were just doing the same thing I was doing only far cheaper. Needless to say...my business went under. When I stated to make pens...I was resolute in making them just to be making them...anyone wants to buy one fine...if not...fine. I'm happy.


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## joefyffe (Dec 10, 2011)

Amboyna Burl,  $36, does pretty well on occasion,  all used in the same sentence?   I DON'T THINK SO!!!!!



OLDMAN5050 said:


> I bid on one of his ambonia burl cigar a few weeks ago. it wound up selling for $36.00 I dropped out at 15. so he does pretty well on occasion..............


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## fernhills (Dec 10, 2011)

Displaced Canadian said:


> I think you guys are missing an even bigger issue. Those pens look good, the prices are low, and THERE ARE NO BIDS ON THEM. Makes me think that the handmade pen market is quite small.



 If you look at what he sold, there you will find the answer... 48 sales in a month.. most under $20.00 many between $7.00   $15.00.   A couple at $ 22.00.  So he is making $500.00 to $800.00 a month and here we sit. But that is a lot of work to me. 50 pens a month. That is a job..not for me.   Carl


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## NewLondon88 (Dec 10, 2011)

dgerwin11 said:


> Upon further reflection,  maybe "bullying" is not the best word in this case.  But there does seem to be push back from some members if someone does not price their pens the way some think they should.  As a new turner with no reputation, no matter how good a pen I make, I most likely will not get top $ for my work.  I price it at what I hope to be reasonable.  I am proud of my time, and I price accordingly.  But if I am too proud of my time, I can come down in price if need be.



Like any other craft, it takes time to develop certain skills. Nobody
really starts out at the top. Most of us don't get 'top dollar' for our
work. In fact, very few of us do. (I shouldn't say 'us' .. I'm not one of 
them!)

I don't think people really push others to price their pens a certain way,
but there's no question that it is something to notice, take into account,
comment on etc. After all, these are other suppliers in markets that we
would like to be in. And they are ( in effect) telling the world "This is
all this product is worth". 
And how many people look closely enough at the product to know if it
is really the same?  Or care?  Not that many.


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## Smitty37 (Dec 10, 2011)

*Hmmmmm*

I just made a purchase on eBay paying $10.00 (including shipping) for an item that I can buy elsewhere for $19.00 plus $12.00 and change shipping.

Did the seller want to sell it for that?  Probably not (I was willing to pay more but no one else bid) but he offered to sell to the highest bidder.

Reading  the posts here I wonder how many of you have taken the risk to sell your wares at auction.  It is a different world, the seller does not set the price.  The buyers do and they are not always generous.


I sold on eBay for several years.  Auctioned pen kits I started their price at $.99 opening bid with no reserve for 10 slimlines.  $14.00 and change was my break even point.  Did some sell for less?  Yep.  Did I want to sell them for less?  Nope.  Did I deliver...I sure did.  

I also sold coins at auction at Yahoo...did the same thing with them - started low and no reserve.  I lost on quite a few (probably half of all my sales) and made a big bunch of money on others including one group of 9 coins I bought (from a dealer) for $99.00 and sold for over $800 including one for $260, one for $170 and the rest for about $50 each. ...sometimes you win.

He/She chooses to sell at auction, that's a tough market and ultimately the buyer decides whether or not you make money.  What is not obvious is that selling at auction triggers a lot of inquiries and often future (off eBay) sales for a lot more than the auction brings.  We don't know his business plan but it is certain that $500 per month is more than zero, which might be the alternative.
.


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## Miles42 (Dec 11, 2011)

I have not been doing this long. I really enjoy doing it. I am retired and this is a great satisfying hobby for me.  There is no way anyone can make a living doing this. My main goal is to make a few dollars and keep me in material to sustain my hobby. I jusst get some sense of accomplishment from seeing a well made pen


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## SDB777 (Dec 12, 2011)

bitshird said:


> Look at the prices this person gets for his pens, and they aren't exactly junk,
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/sch/amberjo99/m...80786126324&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&_trksid=p43


 


Someone send the person a message and ask them to join this fine site yet?  Or maybe they are already here....lurking?


Scott (
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) B


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## Haynie (Dec 12, 2011)

Been giving this some thought.  If the guy is doing what he wants and feels he is getting a return that is his business.


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## maxwell_smart007 (Dec 12, 2011)

Best way to build skills - make lots!  Leads to lots of inventory....

Best way to make money - sell things...removes that inventory

Looks like he's combining the two!  Who am I to say he's undercharging - better than having thousands of pens sitting around!


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## OLDMAN5050 (Dec 13, 2011)

Most folk that have a hobby and try to turn it into a business fail.. I think this fellow or lady is just trying to get the cost of the kit and blank so they can continue the hobby.. great thing about America is we are free to do what we want to...........I chose to make pens and give them to charity. I have fun and continue my hobby while feeling good about what I am doing at the same time......


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