# Flexner on Pen Finishes



## KenV (Jun 20, 2016)

From one of the masters of finishing ---


Finish for Wooden Pens - Popular Woodworking Magazine


"......So my recommendation for an alternative finish to CA glue is pre-catalyzed lacquer. It also crosslinks. It is sold in small containers by Craft Supplies as “Melamine.” The product comes from England, and this is what pre-cat is called there, at least by Mylands, the supplier of the finish. (Catalyzed lacquers are made with melamine.) Here’s the link to the product…

You can also buy pre-cat at paint stores that sell to the professional trade, of course. But the smallest size will be a gallon, which is a lot unless you turn a lot of pens.

Be forewarned though that this finish also has fumes, so if you’re interested in a substitute for CA glue, this may not work well for you. The solution for fumes is good airflow away from you. You can arrange this easily with a fan.

If the fumes from both CA glue and pre-cat irritate you, even with a fan, you may have to settle for an inferior finish.

— Bob Flexner"


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## jttheclockman (Jun 20, 2016)

That is funny because I was put down when I suggested this by one of the premier pen turners of all time and extreme knowledgable people. Just ask him.:biggrin:

www.penturners.org/forum/f28/ca-folks-allergic-140820


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## low_48 (Jun 20, 2016)

I didn't see where you said anything about precat lacquer in your previous post. You just said lacquer, two very different materials!


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## RKB (Jun 20, 2016)

Thank you Ken for posting this information. :biggrin:

Rod


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## TimS124 (Jun 20, 2016)

This stuff?  https://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/147/2585/Mylands-Melamine-Lacquer


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## KenV (Jun 20, 2016)

TimS124 said:


> This stuff?  https://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/147/2585/Mylands-Melamine-Lacquer



Same stuff Flexner linked to.

Can not get it shipped to Alaska with out huge costs, so am stuck until I take a vehicle "down south".


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## mecompco (Jun 20, 2016)

How is this different from Myland's Friction polish? Just wondering.


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## KenV (Jun 20, 2016)

Friction polish is shellac based.

Flexner discusses such finishes in the article.


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## Rockytime (Jun 20, 2016)

A bit off the subject but there have been discussions on polyurethane finishes. I do not use it due to drying times. Hanging the blanks causes the finish to be thicker at the bottom of the blank. Someone posted how he finishes arrows with sort of a squeegee affair made from a piece of bicycle inner-tube. PSI has a neat drying device which rotates the blanks slowly. I like that idea but am not willing to spend $60 fora cheap little bar-b-que  motor. If I can find one in a thrift store I may make one.


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## SteveG (Jun 20, 2016)

A quick computation reveals that the Myland's lacquer in the link runs $158 per gallon plus shipping. I know there will be differences, but the local pro paint supply can likely provide their formulation of pre-cat (or the close relative which is cat lacquer, where you mix in the catalyzer provided in a separate container) at a better price, if you expect to be using more than the 16 oz can. I have used the "you mix it" variety for a spray on furniture finish with great results...it is really tough stuff, but with all the desirable visual qualities of lacquer.


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## jttheclockman (Jun 20, 2016)

low_48 said:


> I didn't see where you said anything about precat lacquer in your previous post. You just said lacquer, two very different materials!


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## low_48 (Jun 20, 2016)

SteveG said:


> A quick computation reveals that the Myland's lacquer in the link runs $158 per gallon plus shipping. I know there will be differences, but the local pro paint supply can likely provide their formulation of pre-cat (or the close relative which is cat lacquer, where you mix in the catalyzer provided in a separate container) at a better price, if you expect to be using more than the 16 oz can. I have used the "you mix it" variety for a spray on furniture finish with great results...it is really tough stuff, but with all the desirable visual qualities of lacquer.



I'm not sure a pro paint store will sell catalyst, or even the post catalyzed lacquer to the general public. Many products use an acid base catalyst and are quite dangerous to handle, and dangerous to unprotected lungs. I checked a Mohawk MSDS on post cat lacquer and it carries a level 4 acute toxicity for inhalation. We're talking serious chemicals here!


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## duncsuss (Jun 20, 2016)

Rockytime said:


> ... polyurethane finishes ... Hanging the blanks causes the finish to be thicker at the bottom of the blank.



Les Elm (rdabpenman) wrote a tutorial on his "polyurethane dipping method". I don't know if he posted it here, but it's definitely in the "Classroom" forum on the Woodbarter.com website.


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## jttheclockman (Jun 21, 2016)

There are other top finishing gurus out there and here is one that I take very serious. I use his products and they work well.

Lots of good info here. 

Jeff Jewitt - Fine Woodworking


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## TimS124 (Jun 21, 2016)

duncsuss said:


> Rockytime said:
> 
> 
> > ... polyurethane finishes ... Hanging the blanks causes the finish to be thicker at the bottom of the blank.
> ...



Is that this tutorial on that site?  The name is slightly different but it sounds like what you meant:

Pen Finish Dipping Method | WoodBarter


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## duncsuss (Jun 21, 2016)

TimS124 said:


> duncsuss said:
> 
> 
> > Rockytime said:
> ...



That's the one. His user name here is rd_ab_penman, check out his posts in the Show Off Your Pens forum and eventually you'll find several where he says he used his "dipping method". The finish looks great to me.


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## Wildman (Jun 23, 2016)

Mylands Wood Finishing Products

See the products SDS,  

https://www.classichandtools.com/acatalog/Melamine-Lacquer[1].pdf

Have a lot of respect for Flexner & Jewitt both put out outstanding information in their books, articles, &videos. 

Friction finishes can be either lacquer or shellac base. 

Things you should know before spending your money on pre-cat/post cat finishes. Normally these finishes are sprayed on and have to pay attention to number of coats applied!.  You can also find waterbased pre-cat/post-cat finishes.

http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base_images/zp/CatalyzedFinishes.pdf

Gist of Flexner’s article about speed in application & durability of Mylands pre-cat lacquer for wood turners. You may want to invest in a painter mask with filters if going use that product long term!  JMHO, durability of any finishing material on a pen is a SWAG!  All about the end user & use!


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## Rockytime (Jun 23, 2016)

TimS124 said:


> duncsuss said:
> 
> 
> > Rockytime said:
> ...



Many thanks for this info. Will try that method very soon. Thanks again.


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## Hubert H (Jun 23, 2016)

I have been applying all kinds of finishes for 52 years.  That is how I made my living.  I have used lacquers for over 40 years.  My favorite lacquer is the Behlen stringed instrument lacquer for pens and small things. It is a pre-cat that has something in it that is more flexible than the standard pre-cats.   It sprays very nice - dries quick and has a nice gloss that can be made any sheen you want with different rubbing compounds.  As you will see in the following web-sit it can be bought in quarts.   My two cents.

Buy Behlen Luthier's Lacquer, Quart at Woodcraft.com


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## JoshuaFisher (Jul 24, 2016)

hubert said:


> I have been applying all kinds of finishes for 52 years.  That is how I made my living.  I have used lacquers for over 40 years.  My favorite lacquer is the Behlen stringed instrument lacquer for pens and small things. It is a pre-cat that has something in it that is more flexible than the standard pre-cats.   It sprays very nice - dries quick and has a nice gloss that can be made any sheen you want with different rubbing compounds.  As you will see in the following web-sit it can be bought in quarts.   My two cents.
> 
> Buy Behlen Luthier's Lacquer, Quart at Woodcraft.com



Just a heads up that isnt actually pre-cat lacquer its just your run of the mill nitrocellulose lacquer, it even states that in the product description, So even though its a really nice product you wont get the same durability of a true pre-cat lacquer


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