# Airbrush with CO2 Canister instead of compressor?



## redfishsc

Howdy all, 

I currently do pens at the cabinet shop where we have abundant air, and I finish my pens normally with an air brush. Anyhow, I'll be moving soon and will be turning pens at home (much nicer than the cabinet shop!). 

I don't have an air compressor but I do have a 20# tank of CO2 I used when I grew aquatic plants in my 55 gallon tank (CO2 slowly mixed in the water works on plants the way accelerator works on CA). 


Does anyone know if I can use this to run an airbrush? I'll need to get a special regulator, I'm sure. The one I currently have has a high-side (measured in the thousands PSI) and a very, very low side (max 5 psi) for the CO2 bubbling. It won't drive an airbrush.

Thanks, 

Matt


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## LanceD

I have been using a 20 lb C02 tank for years with various brands of air brushes to paint fishing lures that I manufacture. The tank and regulator was purchased from a local welding supply shop. Cost was about 12.00 to fill up and I could paint around 5000 spinnerbaits with a fill up. I just recently bought another air brush from Michael's using their 40% off coupon from Sunday's paper and am now using it along with the CO2 tank to spray Deft laquer. I normally use 18-20 lbs of pressure with no problems whatsoever. After the discount the air brush was around 30.00 and is a great single action brush.


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## ctEaglesc

Since Lance has already posted  his success using the set up you mention I certainly cannot dispute the results.
Perhaps my reply is more of a quest for background information along with a suggestion based on your information.
Even if you have the cylinder won't it have to be refilled?
What is the cost?
Would you be able to use the compressed gas from the CO2 cylinder for other "shop uses" blowing off blanks, clearing out the head stock of the lathe? any of the other tasks I find a compressor useful for.( stabilizing either vacuum or pressure)
Convenience.I realize  the CO2 will last a long time, but it eventually will run out.What effects will the diminishing of the gas in the tanks have on the useable pressure as the tank empties?
(With a compressor I just plug it in and forget it.)
HF has a moisture remover/ pressure regulator on sale for around $15.00.I have found it sensitive enough to run an air brush,PC gun and also be able to "open it up "to blow off blanks between grits.
All this being said wouldn't a small compressor be more convenient than dealing with a tank that needs to be refilled, has limited uses, inconvenient and more expensive in the long run?
Even a pancake compressor for under $100.00  would do anything we need it for in pencrafting would it not?


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## jeffj13

I agree with Eagle. Small compressors can be had for less than $100. (I bought a small one on clearance from Walmart for $20).  Used or reconditioned would lower the price even more.  

imho, the versatility and convenience outweights the additional costs vs a tank.

Take a look here:

http://www.campbellhausfeld.net/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10051&categoryId=10452&langId=-1

jeff


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## LanceD

Getting set up with the C02 tank was a bit pricey at first. About 60.00 for the tank and a little over a hundred for the regulator. I also own a small portable compressor but never use it anymore. Just too noisy. The advantages for me using the CO2 is quietness,portability  and no electricity.


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## ctEaglesc

I will grant you compresors are noisy(especially the lower priced ones.)One can be made from a scroll HVAC or refrigerator compressor if it can be found, but then there is the oil issue.
The down side to me is needing an outside source for filling it.I know in the winter months it is a pain to stay ahead of the propane tank to haveminmum warmth in the shop, I would hate to have to do that with compressed gas for finishing and other shop uses.
As far as start up costs,I guess it is about a wash, its just the idea of relying on the outside source.
At least the question was answered by Lance, and he's happy with its' application.

Edit in dumb question from me

Since the C02 tank lasts as long as it does, why not just refit the C02 tanks with a tire valve and use that for compressed air?
Fill at a gas station or top off with 12 volt compressor when needed?


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## Sylvanite

> _Originally posted by LanceD_
> <br />The advantages for me using the CO2 is quietness,portability  and no electricity.


Wouldn't a 5 or 10 gallon portable air tank accomplish the same thing, without the need to pay for gas?  A charge wouldn't last as long, but you could refill it whenever you need with any compressor - even the little 12V ones you keep in the trunk of your car.

Regards,
Eric


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## GBusardo

Lance,  Any chance of you posting a few pics of your lures in your gallery? Do you have any turned ones? I would love to see them. 
Thanks Gary
PS  Matt, sorry about stepping on your post


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## LanceD

> _Originally posted by cteaglesc[/i
> 
> Edit in dumb question from me
> 
> Since the C02 tank lasts as long as it does, why not just refit the C02 tanks with a tire valve and use that for compressed air?
> Fill at a gas station or top off with 12 volt compressor when needed?
> _


_

Never thought about that. I normally get about 6 months of use from one fill up but I don't use it every day. If I were to use it just for pens I'd probably get 2 or 3 years out of a tank, maybe more.
I'm also a little apprehensive about handling things that could blow up on me [xx(][]_


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## LanceD

> _Originally posted by GBusardo_
> <br />Lance,  Any chance of you posting a few pics of your lures in your gallery? Do you have any turned ones? I would love to see them.
> Thanks Gary
> PS  Matt, sorry about stepping on your post


Gary,
I'll see what I can locate and post a few pictures. I have never turned any. I handcarved everything. Don't do it anymore. Spinnerbaits is the only thing I make now and am now looking for a buyer for all of my molds and inventory.


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## Sylvanite

> _Originally posted by cteaglesc_
> <br />Since the C02 tank lasts as long as it does, why not just refit the C02 tanks with a tire valve and use that for compressed air?
> Fill at a gas station or top off with 12 volt compressor when needed?


A CO2 tank is made to withstand much higher pressure than a shop air compressor produces.  That's why it needs a regulator.  I'd be really hesitant to try drilling into a CO2 tank (even if the guage read empty) to insert a shraeder valve.  Even if you managed it, you'll never be able to use the tank for CO2 again.  A 5 gallon compressed air tank can be had brand new for under $25, complete with valve and gauge.

Regards,
Eric


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## redfishsc

> _Originally posted by cteaglesc_
> <br />I
> Edit in dumb question from me
> 
> Since the C02 tank lasts as long as it does, why not just refit the C02 tanks with a tire valve and use that for compressed air?
> Fill at a gas station or top off with 12 volt compressor when needed?



Eagle, CO2 canisters have an internal pressure rate approaching 1,000 PSI. It's liquid CO2 in it. I don't know of a compressor that can do that (I dunno how they compress CO2 into a liquid but I'd bet it's not with a 5 hp piston compressor, lol). 

That's why it can spray so much. 20 pounds of liquid CO2 is almost infinitely more "air" than regular compressed 100 psi stuff. 


They can be refilled for less than $15. I doubt I'd get less than a years worth of use out of it, and it can handle MUCH MORE than any standard air compressor could since it's got nearly 1K PSI in it. Lol, I used to use an air chuck at a cotton mill that had several hundred PSI coming out of it, I can do that with a CO2 tank (and quickly die of CO2 poisoning if I did it indoors). 


Cost is the driving factor, as is noise. I already have then 20lb CO2. All I need is a regulator that can handle a drop from 1000 PSI to around 15-40 PSI.


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## Sylvanite

> _Originally posted by redfishsc_
> <br />[ I can do that with a CO2 tank (and quickly die of CO2 poisoning if I did it indoors).


Harbor Freight sells a CO2 regulator for $34.  I'm glad you're aware of the C02 poisoning hazard.  Be careful - anoxia can sneak up on you.

Regards,
Eric


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## ctEaglesc

Ok that answers my questions but I'll stick withan old fashioned compressor.


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## Sylvanite

> _Originally posted by cteaglesc_
> <br />I'll stick withan old fashioned compressor.


FWIW Eagle, I'm with you.  I have a CO2 tank, but it's attached to the MIG welder (and that's where it's going to stay).

Regards,
Eric


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## Firefyter-emt

One thing no one picked up on is the water content of the Co2 The Co2 is a very wet air, in fact, used heavily off the tank for say, filling car tires will frost or even freeze the regulator and air hose. I have a 20lb tank I have on my Mig welder and a regulator I use when I take it off roading to refill my trucks tires. It works great as an air source, but it is wet. Now as an ASE certified auto painter, let me tell you, lacquer and water in the air is a very bad combo. If you go this route, you need to have at the very least the black round air filters on your line. The glass seperators will not do it, you need the paper seperators.


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## ctEaglesc

> _Originally posted by Firefyter-emt_
> <br />One thing no one picked up on is the water content of the Co2 The Co2 is a very wet air, in fact, used heavily off the tank for say, filling car tires will frost or even freeze the regulator and air hose. I have a 20lb tank I have on my Mig welder and a regulator I use when I take it off roading to refill my trucks tires. It works great as an air source, but it is wet. Now as an ASE certified auto painter, let me tell you, lacquer and water in the air is a very bad combo. If you go this route, you need to have at the very least the black round air filters on your line. The glass seperators will not do it, you need the paper seperators.



I did wonder about that but since I am not familiar with C02 I didn't mention it.
It's surprising that it wasn't mentioned  before your post.


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## PenTurnerJohn

Could someone provide a link to the type of moisture separator Lee [Firefyter-emt] is referring to?  I'm having trouble lately with water coming out of my compressed air line.  I don't have any filter on it.  What do I need?

Thanks,

John
Olathe KS


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## ctEaglesc

> _Originally posted by PenTurnerJohn_
> <br />Could someone provide a link to the type of moisture separator Lee [Firefyter-emt] is referring to?  I'm having trouble lately with water coming out of my compressed air line.  I don't have any filter on it.  What do I need?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> John
> Olathe KS



This type of dryer is necessary for a powder coating system also.
I bought one at Lowes but could not locate it on their site.
Both types of driers are beneficial.
The separator takes the bulk of the moisture out,This one usually goes inline on the tool.
http://www2.northerntool.com/product/200319833_200319833.htm

(Edit in)
HArbor freight also has them but no picture on their site.I think they were siz bucks there.
The Campbell Hausfield one at Lowes went for about $12.00.


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## PenTurnerJohn

Thanks, Eagle.  I'll probably pick up one from HF on my next visit. []  How often do they need to be replaced or is it re-usable?

John

Olathe KS


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## ctEaglesc

I seem to recall there is a variety that is reuseable but the ones I posted werre throw aways.
The particulate matter changes color when replacement is needed.(write down the color when necessary to change,DAMHIKT)
I am not worried about the expense as much as I am the inconvenience.
Since I started using the Powder coater I am more concerned about draining the compressor, and separator.
Since I am now using a water based lacquer I am not as concerned about moisture in finishing.


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## Firefyter-emt

Those that Eagle posted are a great choice. I used those and the ones I use for sandblasting. With sandblasting you know very quickly how they hold up. The ones I use are not quite the same, the ones Eagle posted are a descicant (sp?) filter where the ones I use are a paper filter. The ones I use are a bit better for paint as they can trap dust and dirt chunks as well as the water. The descicant ones are only water. I did notice they do not last as long when sandblasting, however I think they remove water more completly. If I had to choose one for an airbrush, I would go with Eagle's (maybe with mine at the male end of the hose so you would have 2 of them)






http://www.autotoolmart.com/cgi-bin/webc.cgi/st_prod.html?p_prodid=2889&p_catid=207


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## PenTurnerJohn

Thanks, Lee.

It sounds like I should use one of each type in-line.

John
Olathe KS


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## Firefyter-emt

Cheap insurance that will last a long time. The paper filter at the start of the air hose will stop most of it and with the see thru filter you will see the color change when that one is shot. Then just replace them both at that time.


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## cozee

Not only am I also an ASE certified bodyman (10 years certified, 15 working) but I have been airbrushing for almost 25 years, both as a hobby and professionally. One thing to consider when purchasing an air compressor for airbrushing is the type it is. Diaphram compressors are cheaper than piston type but they also will cause a more severe pulse in the line, especially if there is no resevior tank. They typically are noisier also. This plusing can and many times will cause problems with laying down an even finish as the pulse will carry more paint out of the brush. This usually isn't noticed until you sand through a thin spot. Having used both piston and diaphram compressors, I suggest first that no matter the choice, make sure there is a resevior tank. This will not only help to reduce line pulse with diaphram compressors but when the unit has a pressure cut off switch, it gives the compressor a time to rest thus increasing it's life. This is true for piston units also. If you have a unit with no tank, a simple fix is to install a simple air tank found at auto parts stores for carrying air to a flat tire can be added with a tee. One can also purchase air pressure cut-off switches at stores such as Farm and Fleet, Rural King, Big R and the such. A res will also help to cool hot air thus reducing moisture forming in the line but one needs to be sure to drain the tank prior and after each use. It makes slinging paint a lot easier when one can eliminate or reduce the amount of moisture prior to air entering the line. When set up correctly, moisture in the lines can be virtually eliminated and no inline traps will be required. And humidity here in Illinois during the summer can hover in the low to mid 90 percent area for a long time.

Oh, and if one is really wanting to stop or lower moisture contamination, stay away from those low buck vinyl lines. They can themselves be a moisture generating problem. Buy a good quality line which usually is no more than $10-$15.


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