# I need a little help with gluing



## Chris88 (Aug 30, 2009)

Hello I am going to try to make a celtic knot pen. Can someone tell my the best way to glue up the segments. I did two circles and they where off a little I know what that problem was. But I had problems gluing it together. What kind of jig do you use. 

      Thanks for you help

PS. It is not fun when you glue your self to things in the shop.


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## skiprat (Aug 30, 2009)

I think there a gazillion ways to answer those questions, but I think it completely depends on your approach to the segmenting. If you can get it aligned quickly ( with or without a jig) then I'd use CA. If I needed time to align the bits, then I'd use epoxy. If you need a little 'filling' then use epoxy.
With the cross, don't cut all the way through the material. This way your parts will always stay aligned and you can test the slot before gluing in the bit. Some folks have very accurate and sophisticated looking jigs, but I reckon just cutting 90% of the way through is even more accurate.:wink:


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## Roy_Quast (Aug 30, 2009)

Chris......
It should not matter if you are using wood or acrylic blanks. The glue-up should be the same. I use THICK CA up against my fence of my table saw to keep it square, with a piece of wax paper inbetween so as not to get CA all over my tablesaw. I just use finger pressure to hold the pieces together untill they set. That only takes a minute and then use a hairdryer to cure the CA glue. Get the blank hot enough and cool it down for about 5 minutes and it's ready to go for the next cut. Hope this helps.........
Roy


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## Chris88 (Aug 30, 2009)

Thanks for the replies. That does help I hope I can try it again this evening.


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## jttheclockman (Aug 30, 2009)

I use a piece of 1" aluminum angle I bought at home depot. That gives me the 90 degrees I need to keep. Use med CA use a couple clamps to hold to the angle and one clamp to pull together. Sometimes I use epoxy.


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## Chris88 (Aug 30, 2009)

jttheclockman said:


> I use a piece of 1" aluminum angle I bought at home depot. That gives me the 90 degrees I need to keep. Use med CA use a couple clamps to hold to the angle and one clamp to pull together. Sometimes I use epoxy.



Thanks I remembered seeing that I will have to make a trip to HD. I tried to make some celtic blanks but no luck. I tried to drill them on the drill press and was not centered.


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## jttheclockman (Aug 30, 2009)

Chris88 said:


> Thanks I remembered seeing that I will have to make a trip to HD. I tried to make some celtic blanks but no luck. I tried to drill them on the drill press and was not centered.


 

The big key there is to work with square stock if you are doing them that way. If you are using round stock then the key is to not cut all the way through. You would not be able to line up the pieces again. When drilling on a drill press you need to make sure the blank is parallel to the bit. I like to start with a centering bit and then switch to the appropriate bit. If using metals in the segments I will step drill it. Good luck and look forward to your results. Have a great turning day.


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## VisExp (Aug 30, 2009)

Chris

You might find the following articles in the library helpful

http://content.penturners.org/articles/2007/celticknot.pdf

http://content.penturners.org/articles/2008/6-strand-celtic-knot.pdf

http://content.penturners.org/articles/2009/6-Segment-Knot-Pen.pdf

http://content.penturners.org/articles/2008/celticknotjig.pdf


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## Chief Hill (Aug 30, 2009)

I just use CA glue.  And then speed set when I have it exactly where I want it.


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## Chris88 (Aug 31, 2009)

jttheclockman said:


> The big key there is to work with square stock if you are doing them that way. If you are using round stock then the key is to not cut all the way through. You would not be able to line up the pieces again. When drilling on a drill press you need to make sure the blank is parallel to the bit. I like to start with a centering bit and then switch to the appropriate bit. If using metals in the segments I will step drill it. Good luck and look forward to your results. Have a great turning day.



Thanks I hope I will be able to show yall the results. I am using square stock and use a belt sander to square them up once I get the inlay in. Right now I am trying to make up a jig to cut the inlay on a band saw. I tried the technique on not cutting the blank all the way. And I am having problems with getting the right kerf. So the best way for me to try this is to cut the blanks in half and glue them up. Right I think my big problem will be drilling the blanks. 
       Thanks for the reply


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## Chris88 (Aug 31, 2009)

VisExp said:


> Chris
> 
> You might find the following articles in the library helpful
> 
> ...



Thanks I have looked at them over and over :hypnotized:


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## mickr (Aug 31, 2009)

chris: drill on the lathe and dril to middle of pattern, not middle of blanks...if you start drilling on lathe you will see marked improvement in your "centering"


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## jttheclockman (Aug 31, 2009)

mickr said:


> chris: drill on the lathe and dril to middle of pattern, not middle of blanks...if you start drilling on lathe you will see marked improvement in your "centering"


 

That is why you can't drill on the lathe. There are times when the pattern is not quite center of the blank. I always transfer the center of the pattern to the end of the blank and do not rely on drilling in the center of the blank.


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## KenV (Aug 31, 2009)

John --  Agree with the "Eagleism" drill the center of the pattern and not the center of the blank.  

I can (and do) get the pattern center set on the blank by carefully marking it and setting the live center to it -  turn it round at the tailstock end leaving a square shoulder -- only need about 1/4 to 3/8 tenon -- , mark the other end and reverse the blank so the tenon is in the headstock (I use a scroll chuck or 4 jaw chuck)  using the centered portion to hold the blank -  and if way way off center, repeating to remove any excentricity.   then round the rest of the blank, or drill since you now have moved the blank to being centered on the pattern.


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## jttheclockman (Aug 31, 2009)

KenV said:


> John -- Agree with the "Eagleism" drill the center of the pattern and not the center of the blank.
> 
> I can (and do) get the pattern center set on the blank by carefully marking it and setting the live center to it - turn it round at the tailstock end leaving a square shoulder -- only need about 1/4 to 3/8 tenon -- , mark the other end and reverse the blank so the tenon is in the headstock (I use a scroll chuck or 4 jaw chuck) using the centered portion to hold the blank - and if way way off center, repeating to remove any excentricity. then round the rest of the blank, or drill since you now have moved the blank to being centered on the pattern.


 

Now that is interesting Ken. Never crossed my mind to do something like that. May have to give it a try the next time I do a knot. Thanks.


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## Chris88 (Aug 31, 2009)

Well I think I have the glue up and the idea. I just turned a blank and the knot is not even. I think my biggest problem will be drilling the black in the center of the knot. What are some of yall doing to get this part right. 

  Thanks for all of the replies


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## jttheclockman (Aug 31, 2009)

Chris88 said:


> Well I think I have the glue up and the idea. I just turned a blank and the knot is not even. I think my biggest problem will be drilling the black in the center of the knot. What are some of yall doing to get this part right.
> 
> Thanks for all of the replies


 

Chris

I explained what I like to do a few post up but will try to elaborate a little.  First you say the knot is not even. If one or more of the glue ups was off it will not look correct. But with that said if the knot comes out a little off center, what I like to do is find the center of the knot where the 2 X's cross and transfer that mark to the top of the blank. Now I put the blank in my pen drilling jig. I then use a centering bit to drill the center where I made my mark. Now I have a starter hole so I can swith to the proper bit. But like I mentioned above you need to make sure your blank is parallel to the drill bit so it drills straight through. Go slow and back out to clear debris.  Good luck and be sure to show the final product.


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## Chris88 (Sep 1, 2009)

Thanks John, yes I did read your post I am going to give that a try tonight. The knot was a little off center. And I will check again to make sure that the blank is parallel to the drill bit. Thanks again


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## On Edge (Sep 3, 2009)

Chris,
Are you certain that the sandwich or pieces which you are gluing in is very close to the thickness of the kerf  which you have cut ? Put another way;the total LENGTH of the blank after segmenting should be very close to the original length otherwise the diagonal pieces do not intersect at the center of the blank.


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## Chris88 (Sep 4, 2009)

On Edge said:


> Chris,
> Are you certain that the sandwich or pieces which you are gluing in is very close to the thickness of the kerf  which you have cut ? Put another way;the total LENGTH of the blank after segmenting should be very close to the original length otherwise the diagonal pieces do not intersect at the center of the blank.



Yes I understand what your saying. I was able to get two good one's out of oh I lost count on the bad one's.  I did one by cutting the blank all the way and glueing some pick guard BWB in I only did two lines. Then I did a knot with wood. And was able to cut some thin strips on the band saw to match the kerf. I did not cut that one all the way through. Then last night I tried again and was way off. But I think I have the idea now I will keep trying. What I would like to be able to do is make one and get the knot right even time. The tip on running a line from the center of the x to the top seems to work as long as the top and bottom are cut straight. I will try to post some pics this evening.


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## Chris88 (Sep 4, 2009)

Here are the two that I was able to get done.


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