# Finish advice please



## Clintg (Dec 25, 2008)

Today is Christmas, i got my first lathe today, although i have been making pens in my High school woodshop for about 2 months now. I originally had ordered myland high fric. polish. After reading reviews about CA on here about 5 hours after ordering, i decided not to use it on my pens. So as I have been making pens nearly all day, i realized i had no finish. I grabbed some Shelac finish my father had and applied that with a fine tip brush, after 2 hours drying in a dry, warm enviroment, the pens are tacky, glossy, beautiful, but tacky. Any advice?


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## chriselle (Dec 25, 2008)

If you don't want to use CA then you must be diciplined enough to resist touching your pens for much longer than 2 hours.  The fact that you realized the finish is tacky means the finish is ruined.  CA is your friend my friend.


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## its_virgil (Dec 25, 2008)

Mylands and other friction polishes are shellac based. So, you chose  to use what you had just chosed not to use.   Even if you use the mylands, the finished blanks need to dry over night or even longer before assembly.
Do a good turn daily!
Don



Clintg said:


> Today is Christmas, i got my first lathe today, although i have been making pens in my High school woodshop for about 2 months now. I originally had ordered myland high fric. polish. After reading reviews about CA on here about 5 hours after ordering, i decided not to use it on my pens. So as I have been making pens nearly all day, i realized i had no finish. I grabbed some Shelac finish my father had and applied that with a fine tip brush, after 2 hours drying in a dry, warm enviroment, the pens are tacky, glossy, beautiful, but tacky. Any advice?


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## Clintg (Dec 25, 2008)

I have been reading about how do to CA, but we literally had no superglue! I just knew shellac was a finish used on pens. I sanded one down and started over, guess ill get my hands on superglue. Any type preferable?


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## chriselle (Dec 25, 2008)

Clintg said:


> I have been reading about how do to CA, but we literally had no superglue! I just knew shellac was a finish used on pens. I sanded one down and started over, guess ill get my hands on superglue. Any type preferable?



There are basically three types, thin, medium, and thick and everyone has their preferences.  I suggest you go get yourself a cola, pull up a chair and research the old threads on CA for an hour or two.


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## Clintg (Dec 25, 2008)

Yeah I have already read anything about CA on these forums, i wasnt sure if their were brands for pen making or not.


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## its_virgil (Dec 25, 2008)

This is not a thread but it could be a starting place:
http://www.redriverpens.com/pdf files/CA finish.pdf
Do a good turn daily!
Don



chriselle said:


> I suggest you go get yourself a cola, pull up a chair and research the old threads on CA for an hour or two.


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## Clintg (Dec 25, 2008)

Thank you for all of the advice everyone! Im just going to sand the barrels back to wood and get some superglue tomorrow, ill post pics in the pic forum if it works out.


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## wb7whi (Dec 25, 2008)

I believe that Russ Fairfield's web site has a video on using CA. Also, you might search youtube

Wayne


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## Clintg (Dec 25, 2008)

Anyone know where to find a thread on mandrel less turning, or know how when i do my CA for the first time, i dont want to get it all over my bushings. What came with my lathe is a spur center, and a dead center on the tailstock. Are these the only tools i need?


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## leehljp (Dec 25, 2008)

Three other finishes are:
1. Acrylic - which is plexiglass (not Lexan) melted in acetone. There is a little learning curve on applying that too. Like CA, one of its benefits is fast drying/curing.

2. Floor grade Polyurethane. Drying time is an hour or two, but "curing" is around 24 to 48 hours or more.

3. Lacquer - drying is fairly quick several minutes to an hours at the most with curing in 12 to 24 hours or up to 3 days.

Shellac based finishes are good but shellac does not hold up well to the humidity of chest pockets and sweaty hands. Some people have a more caustic perspiration than others and it will wear both the thin plating off as well as "melt" shellac finishes. Shellac will deteriorate with alcohol, water and perspiration. Women are more attentive to this as they are well aware of water rings on many finishes on tables. CA and acrylic are much more resistant with this, followed by Poly and Lacquer.


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## rick_lindsey (Dec 26, 2008)

Clintg said:


> Anyone know where to find a thread on mandrel less turning, or know how when i do my CA for the first time, i dont want to get it all over my bushings. What came with my lathe is a spur center, and a dead center on the tailstock. Are these the only tools i need?



Hi Clint, I suspect your tailstock actually has a live-center?  I haven't done any turning between centers yet, but my understanding is that you'll need a dead-center to replace the spur-center in your headstock, and you may be fine with the livecenter that's already in your tailstock (if using a mandrel you will find you get *much* better results with a 60degree live-center, which I don't believe comes stock typically).

-Rick


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## JimB (Dec 26, 2008)

Clint - there are several threads on this if you do a search. Basically you will need a 60 degree live center and a 60 degree dead center. Also, there is nothing wrong with getting CA on your bushings if you choose to use them when applying the CA. CA comes off with acetone.

You may want to look in the Finishing Forum on here. There are some very detailed threads about Mandrell-less turning and finishing.


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## Clintg (Dec 26, 2008)

Thanks all, i tried it today with some gorilla super glue (not wood glue), and im not seeing high gloss, so im not sure if it worked, i sanded in between with 1500 grit.


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## JimB (Dec 26, 2008)

Clint, you don't want GG or Super Glue. I don't think anyone on here uses those for finishing. You need CA glue. Many on here buy from Monty here on IAP. You can also get CA from any of the online pen kit suppliers such as PSI, CSUSA etc. If you have a Woodcraft or Rockler store near you they sell it as well.


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## StatProf (Dec 26, 2008)

*My $0.02*

Okay, the first time I tried a CA finish, I hated it. I couldn't get it to not be cloudy and on one I permanently adhered the paper towel to the pen blank (I'm sure many are laughing the "been there, done that" laugh). I recently watched Russ Fairfield's video on the CA/Boiled Linseed Oil finish and tried this (in the Library Forum). It was SO easy and left a beautiful finish. I now make my wife get paper grocery store bags just so that I can do this finish. It is easy and beautiful. I hardly ever use the PPP anymore.

Hope this helps,
StatProf


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## texasfootball21 (Dec 26, 2008)

Clintg said:


> Thanks all, i tried it today with some gorilla super glue (not wood glue), and im not seeing high gloss, so im not sure if it worked, i sanded in between with 1500 grit.



The glue that you use must be CA (cyanoacrylate) glue. You can buy in in thick, medium, and thin consistencies. Many use combinations of glues with different consistencies. I just use thick glue. 
This is the kind I use: 
http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/s...ot_Stuff_Special_T___hot_stuff_specialt?Args=

As said above, do your research, but the best way to get good at a CA finish is trial and error. I am new to the process as well and I learn a lot of things you shouldn't do and some you should every time I finish another pen with CA. 

Good luck, keep asking questions and you will learn a lot.


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## Clintg (Dec 26, 2008)

Thanks for the info, I guess ill just order some of the web. What is the benefit of a sanding sealer, and where can i purchase 60 degree live and dead centers? Thanks for all who have been guiding me through this!


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## johnnycnc (Dec 26, 2008)

Clintg said:


> Thanks for the info, I guess ill just order some of the web. What is the benefit of a sanding sealer, and where can i purchase 60 degree live and dead centers? Thanks for all who have been guiding me through this!



Clint, You can buy the centers many places. 
I have some good ones in stock right now.
http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=37595


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## texasfootball21 (Dec 26, 2008)

johnnycnc said:


> Clint, You can buy the centers many places.
> I have some good ones in stock right now.
> http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=37595



Clint, 
I just ordered a pair of John's centers and he is very helpful and great to work with. I am new to turning between centers as well.
Good luck!


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## wdcav1952 (Dec 27, 2008)

Clintg said:


> Thanks for the info, I guess ill just order some of the web. What is the benefit of a sanding sealer, and where can i purchase 60 degree live and dead centers? Thanks for all who have been guiding me through this!




Clint, one of our members sells CA glue at great prices.

http://www.penturners.org/links/sho...p://woodenwonderstx.com/WWBlue/NewGlueWS.html

I use the thin CA for a sealer and medium CA for the finish.


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## Clintg (Dec 28, 2008)

So you apply a layer of thin after sanding, then wait and us Heavy for the finish? I ordered a pair of Johnnys centers for mandrelless turnin by the way.


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## wdcav1952 (Dec 28, 2008)

Clintg said:


> So you apply a layer of thin after sanding, then wait and us Heavy for the finish? I ordered a pair of Johnnys centers for mandrelless turnin by the way.





Clint, there are a number of ways to do a CA finish.  You will find many of them explained here on the forums, and also in our library.  I use 3 coats of thin to seal and 3 or 4 coats of medium for the finish.

Spend some time in the Finishing forum.  I admire and understand your eagerness, but I would recommend a bit of "homework" first.


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## Munsterlander (Dec 30, 2008)

Clint - highly recommend the threads "What is a CA finish" and "CA Finish - the new way" in the finishing forum.  The video linked in the 6th post of the first thread was very helpful to me, although I don't use nearly as many coats as he used (8-10 for me) and I don't wet sand.  I've tried almost every finishing technique I've found in the forums over the past year with very mixed results - never could get things to work consistently with BLO - am now using a very simple technique based on those threads with just thin CA and a puff of activator between each coat.  (If you have pourous wood, thin coats of thin CA will not fill the gaps - do the slurry thing before you start applying the final finish.)  There may be some strong opinions out there about which glue to use (brand-wise), but don't worry about that yet - just get CA whereever you can and try it.  If you don't have MicroMesh, get that too.  Enjoy the journey!  Even if your first few pens aren't perfect (mine certainly weren't - heck, they still aren't) whoever gets them will be very impressed - and even more impressed as they improve.


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## Clintg (Jan 4, 2009)

Thank you for all of the info, I have read those threads and will attempt the slurry method. Do you create the slurry on your sandpaper itself, and add CA glue onto the dust on the sandpaper? That part confused me.


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## Munsterlander (Jan 5, 2009)

Check out Russ Fairchield's video in the library on using CA as a wood hardener / grain filler / sealer.  He just uses 150 grit sand paper and thick CA glue to wet sand - few drops on a pretty good length of the paper, get the barrel(s) coated qickly and then move to a dry part of the paper and sand.  The slurry gets created as you're wet sanding.  (If you read long enough you'll see people don't always do it this way - some folks like to fill with just CA glue - some like to fill larger voids with contrasting material, like charcoal - some use the crushed stone - I suggested the slurry because I think it is the easiest thing to try starting out.  You've got plenty of time to get creative and experiment later on...)

Don't try to collect a bunch of wood dust and pre-mix the slurry before "applying" it - CA glue will start to cure with the sanding dust almost immediately and you won't be able to get it on the wood and you'll probably scratch the heck out of your barrel.


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## RussFairfield (Jan 7, 2009)

There are a couple video clips on using CA glue as a finish in the library here on the IAP.


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