# Started building my light box today ...



## Skie_M

So ... I recently bought a new rice cooker, cuz my old one ended up with a hole worn through the bottom after all these years ...

I saved the box because it looked about the right size (just a bit smaller than a milk crate).

I cut the flaps off to give it an open top (for product placement and arrangements), and cut the sides out, leaving about an inch of cardboard around all the edges for strength.

I just finished spray-painting the entire interior and exterior of the box (minus the bottom, I'll get that later) to seal moisture out of it and give a little extra strength to the cardboard ...  I used clear spray because that's all I have that has no color to it.  I do have cherry red laying around, but that would affect my pictures pretty badly ... I'll have to pick some white paint up before I finish my project.  For now, it's being protected from moisture, and the white will adhere to the clear quite nicely later.


My next steps will be to wrap the box in a light white cloth (some type of sheer fabric that will let light through while diffusing it).  This will go around all 4 sides, and I will have a flap that will secure around the top that I can remove for accessing the inside.

Photography will take place through one of the sides that I will deem the "front" of my box, later ... I will cut a small access panel in that side just large enough for the camera lens, or perhaps a tad bit larger.


I also need to pick up some lights to affix to the sides and back as well as a removable hood that will sit on top and provide top-lighting.  My plan, for now, is cheap incandescent style bulb holders with reflectors, using the spiral twist florescent light bulbs.


As I happen to be out of money to buy the fabric and lighting fixtures, you guys and gals have a chance to weigh in on my proposed design and suggest features... 


End result will be:  A tabletop lightbox, painted white inside and out, wrapped and topped with sheer white fabric .... moveable and adjustable on the surface of the table, with lights secured to the table from left, right, and behind ... with a hood that will sit on top of the box to provide lighting from above.

The bottom interior of the box will be a foam insert, gently curved away from the middle to avoid shadow lines and blending up into the corners, covered with a heavier white fabric or another fabric color of my choice, later.  It will be heavy enough to support additional props inside the box.

I will build an exterior stand mount to hold the camera steady for photography ... I do not have a camera yet.  This project will probably take me the next several months before it is completed and I have a real camera to use it with.  I hope to have it done before Christmas.


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## VE5MDH

Photographs of your build would be of great assistance for the newbie, but I see that you lack the tool. Sounds like a nice project. Thanks for sharing.

Thanks

Michael & Andrea


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## plantman

" I will build an exterior stand mount to hold the camera steady for photography ... I do not have a camera yet.  This project will probably take me the next several months before it is completed and I have a real camera to use it with.  I hope to have it done before Christmas. "[/QUOTE]

May I suggest that you go to a few rummage or yard sales and look for an adjustable tripod instead of taking the time to try and build something yourself. They can be had for less than $5 !! I have several that I use for my cameras, telescope, laser liner, and spotting scope, and have never paid more than $4 for any one. Look for a video model if you can, they are usually more solid then the camera mounts are. Also, this is just my personal findings.  After building a light box out of opaque plastic, I found it to be too restrictive when taking photos and hard to obtain and maintain the correct angle and lighting I wanted for the camera. It is a lot easier to just set up a white background and light from right, left, and back or top with adjustable lighting to avoid shadows and light streaks on your photos.. Take your photos at night or in a darkened room with only your setup lighting on so your camera only picks up the light on your subject. This is a simple man's method to get started, and as you progress, there are many fine threads here and in the library on more advanced methods of taking photos. Also the most important part of photo taking for the non-pro is a good photo shop program. It is amazing how good it can make your photos look.   Jim  S


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## Skie_M

Well, I'll keep the tripod mount in mind, but I want this to be a tabletop system ... and I may end up using an ipad-like device at least for a while.


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## farmer

*Lite tent*



Skie_M said:


> So ... I recently bought a new rice cooker, cuz my old one ended up with a hole worn through the bottom after all these years ...
> 
> I saved the box because it looked about the right size (just a bit smaller than a milk crate).
> 
> I cut the flaps off to give it an open top (for product placement and arrangements), and cut the sides out, leaving about an inch of cardboard around all the edges for strength.
> 
> I just finished spray-painting the entire interior and exterior of the box (minus the bottom, I'll get that later) to seal moisture out of it and give a little extra strength to the cardboard ...  I used clear spray because that's all I have that has no color to it.  I do have cherry red laying around, but that would affect my pictures pretty badly ... I'll have to pick some white paint up before I finish my project.  For now, it's being protected from moisture, and the white will adhere to the clear quite nicely later.
> 
> 
> My next steps will be to wrap the box in a light white cloth (some type of sheer fabric that will let light through while diffusing it).  This will go around all 4 sides, and I will have a flap that will secure around the top that I can remove for accessing the inside.
> 
> Photography will take place through one of the sides that I will deem the "front" of my box, later ... I will cut a small access panel in that side just large enough for the camera lens, or perhaps a tad bit larger.
> 
> 
> I also need to pick up some lights to affix to the sides and back as well as a removable hood that will sit on top and provide top-lighting.  My plan, for now, is cheap incandescent style bulb holders with reflectors, using the spiral twist florescent light bulbs.
> 
> 
> As I happen to be out of money to buy the fabric and lighting fixtures, you guys and gals have a chance to weigh in on my proposed design and suggest features...
> 
> 
> End result will be:  A tabletop lightbox, painted white inside and out, wrapped and topped with sheer white fabric .... moveable and adjustable on the surface of the table, with lights secured to the table from left, right, and behind ... with a hood that will sit on top of the box to provide lighting from above.
> 
> The bottom interior of the box will be a foam insert, gently curved away from the middle to avoid shadow lines and blending up into the corners, covered with a heavier white fabric or another fabric color of my choice, later.  It will be heavy enough to support additional props inside the box.
> 
> I will build an exterior stand mount to hold the camera steady for photography ... I do not have a camera yet.  This project will probably take me the next several months before it is completed and I have a real camera to use it with.  I hope to have it done before Christmas.


 

Fabric collects dust and lent, and wrinkles, construction paper doesn't.

It sounds like you are making a photo box for photographing jewelry.

Personally I think you will need to move your lights around  and father or closer to the rice cooker diy photo box. to control glare or reflection.

It sounds like you are really going to blast everything inside the box with light.
Make me wonder exactly how much reflection issues you will run into.
Every light could compound the refection lines washing the color and shape.

One of the laws of light is when ever any or all light sources is defused or softened and reflected the light will then contain electromagnet polarized waves , one those waves contact with any or all non metallic smooth surfaced objects it causes reflection or glare.

The only way to avoid reflection is to either change the angle of the light to the pen and or change the angle of the camera to the pen.

Or filter out the polarized waves with linear polarized film and a CPL on your lens.


My suggestion is not use a box or tent and just go table top photography
using LED lighting preferred or Florescent 2nd choice or my favorite is using a flash or strobe.

But you need a camera that will operate a off shoe speed lite, the speed light and a tripod .

There are many technics that a person can use to properly photograph a pen and if you want to go with a light box I strongly suggest this light tent.
http://www.amazon.com/Perfect-2085-...F8&qid=1441834115&sr=8-48&keywords=light+tent
Its cheap foldable and it leaves you with more mobility of where you place your lights .
And a LED desk lamp and a hand held LED flash light.
And of coarse A tripod .

Pens are small in size you don't need a flood lighting you just need to light up the pen and not wash the pen out with Polarized reflection.


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## Skie_M

Yeah ... I intend for the box to be moveable and adjustable, with the height of the lights mounted on the table to be adjustable, so that I can control the angle of incoming light.  I am already planning ahead so that I can find the ideal angles and amounts of light you are talking about.

I may use just one light .... or two ... or all three.  I may block or partially filter some of the light to get the ideal situation I want ...  I may change the material I am using to diffuse the light to achieve my ends ...

As for dust control .... I don't really give a damn about the box exterior, but it will be in a separate room where dust won't be an issue.  I don't want dust getting into the box.

I may try some tabletop photography too, and see if that works .... for now, I'm about 10 dollars into this build (got some small diameter dowel rods to reinforce the box, and used a can of clear paint to reinforce the cardboard and protect from moisture).

The camera will also be adjustable ... once I find an angle and position I like, I may just tape the box and camera mount down on the table and leave it.  I'll probably use some kind of polarized lenses or lens coating.  I'll probably also try it without, to see what I get.  It's all about discovery ... trial and error, and along the way making mistakes that I can learn from.

I do have some LED flashlights .... but I think I'll get some of those free Harbor Freight LED handheld worklights that they give out coupons for, and mount them on adjustable stands of some sort.  I have enough free batteries now to last for perhaps a year or two ...  


I want the light box so that I can control more accurately what type and kind of light I am using to illuminate with, and to eliminate shadows where I can and improve contrast and image quality.  It's not about "the perfect picture" ... it's about getting as close as I can within my limited budget without tearing out my hair.


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## Sylvanite

farmer said:


> One of the laws of light is when ever any or all light sources is defused or softened and reflected the light will then contain electromagnet polarized waves , one those waves contact with any or all non metallic smooth surfaced objects it causes reflection or glare.


Sorry, but that is not correct.  Diffusion, reflection, and polarization are three different things.  None of them necessarily results in another.  Glare is caused by relative intensity of direct reflection, not polarization.  See http://www.penturners.org/forum/f24/polarization-glare-133334/ for more information.


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## farmer

*polarizing*



Sylvanite said:


> farmer said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of the laws of light is when ever any or all light sources is defused or softened and reflected the light will then contain electromagnet polarized waves , one those waves contact with any or all non metallic smooth surfaced objects it causes reflection or glare.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, but that is not correct.  Diffusion, reflection, and polarization are three different things.  None of them necessarily results in another.  Glare is caused by relative intensity of direct reflection, not polarization.  See http://www.penturners.org/forum/f24/polarization-glare-133334/ for more information.
Click to expand...

 

Polarized sunglasses use the principle of Brewster's angle to reduce glare from the sun reflecting off horizontal surfaces such as water or road. In a large range of angles around Brewster's angle, the reflection of _p_-polarized light is lower than _s_-polarized light. Thus, if the sun is low in the sky, reflected light is mostly _s_-polarized. Polarizing sunglasses use a polarizing material such as Polaroid sheets to block horizontally-polarized light, preferentially blocking reflections from horizontal surfaces. The effect is strongest with smooth surfaces such as water, but reflections from roads and the ground are also reduced.
Photographers use the same principle to remove reflections from water so that they can photograph objects beneath the surface. In this case, the polarizing filter camera attachment can be rotated to be at the correct angle


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## Sylvanite

farmer said:


> Photographers use the same principle to remove reflections from water so that they can photograph objects beneath the surface.


Direct reflection can be, and often is, but is _not always_ polarized.  Glare may or may not be polarized (and can be mixed).  Diffuse reflection, and diffused light is nearly always unpolarized.

But let's take the polarization discussion to Polarization and Glare and not hijack this thread thread any further.

Getting back to the original topic, however, if you're making a light tent out of a cardboard box, my advice is to skeletonize it as much as possible (including the front).  The purpose of a light tent is to provide illumination from all around, so that reflections off the curved reflective pen components are entirely lit.  The lights illuminate the tent walls, and the walls in turn light the pen.  Anywhere you leave cardboard, you won't get (or you'll reduce) illumination from that angle.  Painting the inside white helps, but you'll still get better results if you can light the front wall from the outside.

Regards,
Eric


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## Skie_M

Yes, this is why I went ahead and reinforced the wall sides with wooden dowels ... I want lots of light from all angles, and light from above too.


I recently had a windfall (sold a nice pen) so ... I might be able to finish this project much sooner rather than later, but I still need to pick out a nice camera to use.


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## farmer

*Hijacking threads*



Sylvanite said:


> farmer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Photographers use the same principle to remove reflections from water so that they can photograph objects beneath the surface.
> 
> 
> 
> Direct reflection can be, and often is, but is _not always_ polarized.  Glare may or may not be polarized (and can be mixed).  Diffuse reflection, and diffused light is nearly always unpolarized.
> 
> But let's take the polarization discussion to Polarization and Glare and not hijack this thread thread any further.
> 
> Getting back to the original topic, however, if you're making a light tent out of a cardboard box, my advice is to skeletonize it as much as possible (including the front).  The purpose of a light tent is to provide illumination from all around, so that reflections off the curved reflective pen components are entirely lit.  The lights illuminate the tent walls, and the walls in turn light the pen.  Anywhere you leave cardboard, you won't get (or you'll reduce) illumination from that angle.  Painting the inside white helps, but you'll still get better results if you can light the front wall from the outside.
> 
> Regards,
> Eric
Click to expand...

 
I wasn't hijacking this thread, glare or reflection can be a issue.
I believe it is a bigger issue using a lite tent because of the tent Defuses or scatters the light causing the light to become polarized and then reflects the light inside the tent , which and again scatters the light causing the light to be polarized.


Just as unpolarized light can be partially polarized by reflecting, it can also be polarized by scattering (also known as Rayleigh scattering; illustrated in ). Since light waves are electromagnetic (EM) waves (and EM waves are transverse waves) they will vibrate the electrons of air molecules perpendicular to the direction in which they are traveling. The electrons then produce radiation (acting like small antennae) that is polarized perpendicular to the direction of the ray. The light parallel to the original ray has no polarization. The light perpendicular to the original ray is completely polarized. In all other directions, the light scattered by air will be partially polarized.

Source: Boundless. “Polarization By Scattering and Reflecting.” _Boundless Physics_. Boundless, 21 Jul. 2015. Retrieved 10 Sep. 2015 from https://www.boundless.com/physics/t...zation-by-scattering-and-reflecting-643-6054/

Source: Boundless. “Polarization By Scattering and Reflecting.” _Boundless Physics_. Boundless, 21 Jul. 2015. Retrieved 10 Sep. 2015 from https://www.boundless.com/physics/t...zation-by-scattering-and-reflecting-643-6054/


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## Skie_M

Ok, this is all great info, guys, but the thread is about a cheaply built lightbox...  We don't need Geordi Laforge popping up to explain all the ins and outs of modern photography and how everything works.


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## Sylvanite

farmer said:


> I believe it is a bigger issue using a lite tent because of the tent Defuses or scatters the light causing the light to become polarized and then reflects the light inside the tent , which and again scatters the light causing the light to be polarized.


I'm sorry, but that is just plain wrong.  Light tents *do not* polarize light.  In fact, they depolarize it.


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## farmer

*Disagreeing*



Sylvanite said:


> farmer said:
> 
> 
> 
> I believe it is a bigger issue using a lite tent because of the tent Defuses or scatters the light causing the light to become polarized and then reflects the light inside the tent , which and again scatters the light causing the light to be polarized.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, but that is just plain wrong.  Light tents *do not* polarize light.  In fact, they depolarize it.
Click to expand...

 
  ( Sorry )
Yes me too, I really don't care to disagree with someone who has great knowledge as yourself in the field of photograph .
I really don't care to disagree with anyone at any time or place..

I have a passion for photography just as you do too.
And wouldn't ( want ) to say anything that wasn't true or give advise that was bad.
Problem being is I believe in what I am saying and I have links to help prove what I am saying, plus I have done my own personal tests on photographing subjects with a smooth surface.

(Logic and common sense )
How does a light tent depolarize light ?

Not trying to bump heads but in all honesty the people who make polarized sunglasses would pay a fortune for that technology .

Light tents scatter light defusing or softening, and they reflect light '
and now you are saying they depolarize light ?

I have never read that......... please show me a company who makes light tents that claim there tents depolarize light ?

As you said just plain wrong and really not logical.
Light traveling at the speed it does travel at, crashing into the side of a light tent it would only be logical that the light at the point of being scattered could or would have some kind of static electricity or a electromagnetic wave or become polarized .


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## Sylvanite

farmer said:


> Problem being is I believe in what I am saying and I have links to help prove what I am saying, plus I have done my own personal tests on photographing subjects with a smooth surface.


I will answer your questions in the other thread (http://www.penturners.org/forum/f24/polarization-glare-133334/), so as to leave this one to its original topic.

Regards,
Eric


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## stonepecker

I would check into any local pawn shops for a good used camera.

Know your prices BEFORE you walk in. Look at new cameras on line and then try to remember them or jot them down to compare at the pawn shop. You might just find a great deal.  I suggest this in keeping your costs down.


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## Skie_M

That's a good idea, Wayne ... I'll have to keep that in mind. 


More likely, what I'll do is check the local pawn shops and see their items and prices and then check online before going back.


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## farmer

*Cameras*



Skie_M said:


> That's a good idea, Wayne ... I'll have to keep that in mind.
> 
> 
> More likely, what I'll do is check the local pawn shops and see their items and prices and then check online before going back.


 



Canon T3i with Lens and SD Card | eBay


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## Skie_M

Currently looking at a Nikon L810 at a local pawn shop for 80 dollars ....


No shipping charges, and I know these guys. 



16 Megapixels, 26x zoom (not that I really need a zoom lol)

I looked online and I see that these are more of a "point and shoot outdoors" kind of camera .... not much for indoor and low light photography, but with as much light as I'll have around my box I think it should work OK for me.


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## Ironwood

I am not familiar with that model, but had a quick look at the specs, I cant see why you couldn't shoot good quality pen photos with it. 
I would recommend you get a tripod for it and use the self timer to activate the shutter.


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## Skie_M

I'll have to wait till my next payday to get it .... so that'll be next wednesday.


I have no worries about batteries ... I have plenty of free ones from harbor freight.

I think they cringe when they see me walk in clutching a fist full of coupons, but they're also always happy to see me because if a customer has questions, I have answers, and I'm better at the answers than the employees 80% of the time ....


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## Skie_M

Well ... bad news.  Apparently, the camera got dropped by someone at the pawn shop and it's broken.  I had taken it home and put new batteries in it along with my SD card, and it wouldn't power up at all, so no Nikon L810 for me.

On a brighter note, I took it back to the same pawn shop, and got my money back, and looked at other models while I was there ... they gave me a slight discount on a boxed (original box) 14.1 megapixel  Casio Exilim that looks to be in nearly new condition...  I'm happy with this one cuz it works. 

Image quality is definitely way up over my pad, so I'll have better quality images up very soon.

I got paid today .... gonna go get my white spray paint and some material to wrap round my box ... but first I wanna get my beef ribs marinating in home made terriakki sauce.








Here you can see the reinforcement I made with those thin wooden dowels ... I may end up cutting away more of the cardboard if I think it's in the way, but I'll see how it works for now.  The attachment was made by making small holes in the box and using copper wire I had laying around to secure the dowels in place.


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## Skie_M

Well, here's the box sprayed with White flat primer... I used a can of Dupli-Color Automotive Primer ... it cost me about 5 bucks.

I got some very gauzy material from Jo-Anne's Fabrics to drape around the box and secure in place ... I paid 5 dollars for 2 yards of material.  I plan to use extra layers to block more light if necessary, but this is VERY transparent material.

As soon as I figure out how I want to arrange it and secure it, I'll snap a few pics.  I haven't got the lights sorted out yet, nor the stand.  Too busy scratching everywhere and trying to get some sleep to really get anything done right now .... it's a good thing I already sent off my PITH and completed my little consignment order.


If you're looking at the work table surface ... I'll note that it's actually upside down, and the other side has a laminate countertop surface.  The writing on it was put there by a local business manager at Sutherlands.  It reads "No Charge"  because I helped him with a carpet order for half an hour while waiting for him to be "unbusy" so that I could find out how much it would cost me to get a scrap piece of countertop to put on my folding workbench that it's sitting on right now.  Yeah ... I like to help out, and as they say, one good turn deserves another.


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