# Enduro Mess



## ncseeker (Apr 7, 2006)

Ok, I've been reading about enduro as a finish so I thought I'd give it a try.  My first attempt ended in failure....twice !!

I followed the directions provided and applied it to a chinaberry blank.  My first attempt ended with the pen looking like it had an old bad friction polish on it.  There was no depth to the finish and it was anything but glossy.  So I came back to the forum to read up on what I did wrong.  Seems I was holding the paper towel on the rotating blank too tight.  Ok.... I sanded it down, and tried again.  I reapplied the sealer, waited overnight then applied the top coat and again waited overnight.  In fact I waited 24 hours before I went to the MM.  I used my MM wet and when I finished I was almost back to the bare wood.  One end of the pen was glossy, but the rest was a mess.  So.... back to the forum to search and read again.  This time I discovered the thread about sanding wet vs dry.  Seems the consensus was that if you waited 24 hours for it to cure, wet sanding was fine.

I didn't sand hard, I didn't sand long.... I did sand wet.

Anyway, I skewed it all off and put on a nice glossy CA finish.

Ok guys....... where did I go wrong ?????


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## wdcav1952 (Apr 7, 2006)

Mike,

You don't mention if you MM'd the sanding sealer.  I believe that I am correct that Wayne mentions using MM on the sealer until it looks almost like a glossy finish.  Then you apply the Enduro poly.  It needs to dry at least overnight, and I often leave it for 3 or 4 days.  I would not choose to wet sand an Enduro finish at all.  It is easy to be too aggressive and sand through to bare wood, even with MM.  As you get better at applying Enduro, you will need to sand less and less.  Good luck and keep trying.

FWIW,


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## vick (Apr 7, 2006)

Mike I do not know exactly what you did so I am not sure if this applies.  But on the instruction I read you start at a much higher grit MM that you would on a CA finish.

I have only used Enduro once so far and while the finish was good it did not rival a good CA finish.  I will definately try it a couple more time to see if I can get the results others seem to be getting.


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## Ron in Drums PA (Apr 7, 2006)

My advice for anyone who is tring out a new finish is to work on a dowel and NOT A PEN. 

Practice until you get it right, THEN apply the finish on to a pen.


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## ncseeker (Apr 7, 2006)

Thanks guys !!  I appreciate the quick responses.

When I try it next time I'll wait 3 to 4 days before hitting it with MM.  And when I do, I'll for sure use dry MM !!!

Vick, I did see about starting at the higher grit level with MM.  I followed that, but still had the bad result.  It sounds like you're in the same ballpark as me on Enduro.... not convinced.  

I'll try it again, but to me, CA seems so much easier and quicker.... and so far, glossier !!

Live and Learn.... that's part of the fun !! []


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## ncseeker (Apr 7, 2006)

Ron, 

But where is all the excitement doing it your way !!  LOL  

You're right, of course, but at least in this case it was a freebee blank I got from one of the suppliers.  I was unimpressed with it so I thought it would be a good one to try out the enduro.  

Even with my refinished CA on it, I'm not so sure I'm going to leave it as a pen.  It might go into the scrap and oops pile.


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## wayneis (Apr 7, 2006)

Ron Thats the best advice that I've seen in ages.  Not as much fun but much less frustrating.

Mike, after you have mastered Enduro no one will be able to tell if you used CA or Enduro, thats how glossy and shiny you can make an Enduro finish.  If you want less gloss just stop sanding when you get the gloss that you like.  It sounds to me like you are putting it on to thin, if you got the Enduro from Complaiant then you have a whole quart...don't skimp. LOL  As you apply the Enduro it will be cloudy but will dry crystal cleal in just a couple minutes, remember to keep turning the mandrel by hand so that the finish does not settle to the bottom of the blank.  If you are lucky enough to have the VS then just turn the speed down to super slow, just turning.  Also like William said, you didn't mention if you put on and sanded the sanding sealer first, thats important unless your blank is stabilized.  Hope this helps.

Wayne


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## vick (Apr 7, 2006)

> _Originally posted by wayneis_
> <br />Ron Thats the best advice that I've seen in ages.  Not as much fun but much less frustrating.
> 
> Mike, after you have mastered Enduro no one will be able to tell if you used CA or Enduro, thats how glossy and shiny you can make an Enduro finish.  If you want less gloss just stop sanding when you get the gloss that you like.  It sounds to me like you are putting it on to thin, if you got the Enduro from Complaiant then you have a whole quart...don't skimp. LOL  As you apply the Enduro it will be cloudy but will dry crystal cleal in just a couple minutes, remember to keep turning the mandrel by hand so that the finish does not settle to the bottom of the blank.  If you are lucky enough to have the VS then just turn the speed down to super slow, just turning.  Also like William said, you didn't mention if you put on and sanded the sanding sealer first, thats important unless your blank is stabilized.  Hope this helps.
> ...



Thanks for the tip you are probably right I was pretty thin on my first 2 coats I think I got a little better on the 3rd which is probably why it turned out okay.  Like I said I am not giving up on it just not there yet.


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## wayneis (Apr 7, 2006)

NO One ever said Enduro was quicker.
NO One ever said Enduro was easier.
Everyone who has learned to use Enduro has said that it has just as much depth, gloss and shine as any CA finish.  Many in fact believe it has more depth.

The reason that I worked to find a way to apply Enduro was only because the fumes of CA made me sick.  The only reason that I ever told anyone else about Enduro (which sometimes I regret) was because I had heard others complain about the fumes of CA.  If anyone is looking for a quick and easy finish then give up because there is not one, not Enduro, not CA and not Friction Polish.  The only people whom have ever mastered any finish are those that stuck it out untill they learned how to do it right.  There are a lot of very good pen makers who use and swear by Enduro, some of the best turners in fact do use it.  Tom (Griz) uses it on all of his best pens, William uses it on almost all of his pens, I use it on all of my pens that I put a finish on, the list goes on and on.  I'm not trying to convince anyone how good it is, I'm trying to convince you all that it is not for everyone.  Its not easy, its not quick but it is damn good.  If you are having problems applying it, instead of spouting about how its not quick, its not easy, its not glossy, its not shiny, instead ask what am I doing wrong because theres a lot of very good pen makers who do use it and swear by it.  I don't know many people who mastered CA in a day either.

Wayne



> _Originally posted by ncseeker_
> <br />Thanks guys !!  I appreciate the quick responses.
> 
> When I try it next time I'll wait 3 to 4 days before hitting it with MM.  And when I do, I'll for sure use dry MM !!!
> ...


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## vick (Apr 7, 2006)

Wayne I for one appreciate it.  I have been wanting to try enduro for a while but did not want to fork over cash for more big cans of finish I have way to much as it is.  Beartooth woods little demo package is the reason I am doing it now.  Options are always good I will continue trying it to see if I can get better results.

As far as mastering CA finish in a day I have been doing them for about 2 years and still would not say I have mastered it.  From what I have seen so far the finishing with Enduro is quicker since it rub out so much easier.  It may take longer to get the pen out the door, but it seemed like I spent less time working on the finish.  Then again maybe that was my problem[B)]

Besides us Michiganders have to stick together.[]


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## Ron in Drums PA (Apr 7, 2006)

> _Originally posted by ncseeker_
> <br />But where is all the excitement doing it your way !!  LOL





> _Originally posted by wayneis_
> <br />Ron Thats the best advice that I've seen in ages.  Not as much fun but much less frustrating.



For me it has always been the excitement of watching what happens to wood when a finish is applied. That goes for flat or turned wood.

When I first started turning, I made a "story stick" with different finishes. I turned a few dowels from different types of wood. I cut a groove spaced every 1" or so. Each section has either a commercial finish or a home-brew that I used in flat work. I wanted to see how different finishes looked on the same wood.

Later when I was creating my home-brew for turning, I did the same thing, this time each section had the next step of my experimentation. At a glance I was able to see if I was going in the right direction.

Maybe I'm boring because I thought this was exciting.


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## wayneis (Apr 7, 2006)

As I said before, Great advice.

Wayne



> _Originally posted by Ron in Drums PA_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...


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## ncseeker (Apr 7, 2006)

Wayne,

I believe I did ask what I was doing wrong in my first post. I've been reading here about how great enduro is, so I thought I'd give it a try.  I bought the two small bottles, one the sanding sealer and the other the top coat.  I followed the directions to the letter and still messed up.

As I said earlier, I believe I used too much pressure when applying the top coat.  What I didn't mention is, yes I did use the sanding sealer as directed and sanded it down after letting it dry for a day.  No I don't believe I sanded through the sealer.  For my second attempt (after reading some threads here) I used very slight pressure with the paper towel and probably used up 1/5 of the bottle !!  I let it set for 24 hours before sanding.  I think my problem here was the wet sanding.  Like I said, next time I'll wait 3 to 4 days and dry sand....lightly !!

I'm not giving up on it.  I'm looking for the nicest finish I can do.  Perhaps not the quickest, but for sure the nicest.


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## wayneis (Apr 7, 2006)

Mike what is the temp where you are working?  You should not have to wait 3 or 4 days to sand, I have never waited more than eight to ten hours at the most.  My work area is in our basement so it is cool and humid and in the winter it takes a little longer like the ten hours.

My post was not directed to you persay, it was directed at anyone who is thinking of giving E a try.  90% of the time when someone trys E and report problems they all say that they followed my directions fully but as the conversation continues it always comes out that they tried something a little different.  Once I get them to just try my way fully once with no differences its altogether different, they see the light.  I am and always have been more than happy to give anyone a hand, all I ask is that they give my way a try a couple times and then experiment away.  Who knows what will happen, maybe someone someday will find a better way and I will be the first one to try it.  So far I've tried several different things that have been brought to my attention but I always come back to my tried and true method.

Good luck,

Wayne


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## ncseeker (Apr 7, 2006)

Thanks Wayne.  I appreciate the response.  

I'm in NC where it's been in the 70's.  My shop is in my garage and I usually leave the door open when I turn. (I'm sure my neighbors LOVE my radio !!).  It's been fairly dry here so humidity shouldn't be a problem.  I don't know.... pilot error I guess.

I'm not giving up on it.  I'll probably try it again this weekend.  I'll report back on how it worked out.  As soon as I figure out how to post pics, I'll put some up.


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