# Triple start Tap and Die set



## Daniel (Feb 4, 2009)

Closed

See Below I have started a feeler for order on a possible group buy.
available set has been sold.
I have one set left over from the last group buy
It never got paid for and I have not had the person come back to claim it. So I am offering it for sale at the group buy price of
$209.69 this includes all postage and pay pal fees.
this is the M12.0x0.8Px2.4L triple start tap and Die.

There is only one available.
Thanks


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## jbpaul (Feb 4, 2009)

I'll take it.  I'll PayPal after I get back from dinner out tonight.  Please send your info so I am sure to get it right.

Thanks,


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## amosfella (Feb 4, 2009)

If you come across another set, let me know.  I really want one.


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## Daniel (Feb 4, 2009)

for anyone that is interested in getting a set. please post on this thread. if we can get another dozen or so it is worth running another buy for them.

this is the price break down for the last buy.
PRICES:
M12.0x0.8Px2.4L triple start taps as described above: 
3-5 pc        $197.00 each 
6-11 pc      $151.00 each
12-23 pc    $131.00 each
24-49 pc    $116.00 each

M12.0x0.8Px2.4L triple start dies as described above: 
  3-5 pc   $104.00 each  
  6-11 pc $ 72.00 each 
12-23 pc  $ 67.00 each
24-49 pc  $ 61.00 each


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## chriselle (Feb 4, 2009)

I passed on the last buy (stupid me) so I am in for the next chance.


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## amosfella (Feb 4, 2009)

Could you post a few fotos??  I think I'm in.....  
After fotos I woudl know for sure.  Thanks daniel.  Looks like I missed that set by a few minutes.  What would shipping to Canada cost??
Could someone start a group buy for the colt 5 star drill bits too??


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## pipecrafter (Feb 4, 2009)

I might be in for one set if a buy gets off the ground.  I had to pass on the last one due to lack of funds....


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## Daniel (Feb 5, 2009)

If anyone can take a photo of there set I would appreciate it. the last set I had is already in an envelope.
Just to help you out with a visual. they look just like any other tap and die you would buy at Home Depot. Except the Die is round not hex shaped. what is different about these are the threads that they cut. 
I suspect you will need a dies handle that will hold a round die but a few bucks for a holder is nuttin compared to what you have to pay for the die itself. sheesh this game can get expensive.

So far my count shows 4 interested participants. we need 8 more to reach the price above. I don't limit my buys to members of this group. I just do not spend time spreading the word beyond this group much. So feel free to spread the word. non memebers can contact me by e-mail at daniel(at)yourdonspens.com
replace at with @ thank you.
1/3 of what we ned in a day. I think this one might have a chance. that suprises me a bit as these are not what I consider a huge demand thing.
Also if this woudl work better for anyone waiting for your bonus from uncle sam but you need time. let me know. if there is enough need to wait. I can change the plan as needed. so do not be shy about asking for what you need or want.


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## Daniel (Feb 5, 2009)

Nathan, I have priority flat rate to Canada as $11.61. I am pretty sure that price includes all the extra pay pal expensis and such as well. any other part of the world it is $13.74. Looks like USPS tightened up the gap in priority mail charges to me.


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## amosfella (Feb 5, 2009)

I was just wondering what all was included in the kit, and what sizes.  I'm in though.  
Out of curiosity, has anyone seen a quad start tap and die set??


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## Daniel (Feb 6, 2009)

everyone interested in a buy might want to mention this on the other forums. this thread started as a sale of one set. and I am pretty sure a lot of people never read it down far enough to realize I am now tacking requests.
I can start another thread to help clear up any confusion. or just get this one going. I am sure Curtis would appreciate me getting as much bang out of one thread as possible.


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## me2cyclops (Feb 6, 2009)

if it waits til first of march I'm in


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## Daniel (Feb 6, 2009)

Mark, the first of march would be no problem. I'm waiting for a couple more to show interest before I make an official group buy out of this. It seems to be a bit slow on all fronts right now. I guess the bash is stealing my audience or something. That's ok though. those bash organizers are only sprinters they can't keep up in the long distance game. they will wear out in a few days and go back to there corner to rest up for the next eleven months.


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## Daniel (Feb 12, 2009)

Well folks not a peep on this one for a while now. I will give it more time for demand to get worked up and try again at another time. Sorry.


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## bosipipes (Feb 12, 2009)

I'll be in when you decide to try again.


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## Daniel (Feb 12, 2009)

nothing like closing a buy to cause sales to go up. lol
Truthfully it does seem to work that way. that one takes us up to 5. we need 7 more to hit that $200 per set price.


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## me2cyclops (Feb 12, 2009)

well Im in whenever no hurry here


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## workinforwood (Feb 22, 2009)

Maybe I'm in, maybe not. You let me know in a pm when you are ready and I'll see if I can do it.


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## me2cyclops (Feb 27, 2009)

would it change the price or increase interest if we bought a different size? maybe closer to jr gent size cap thread?


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## Borg_B_Borg (Feb 28, 2009)

I am interested in this group buy if it ever comes into being.  I missed the first group buy.  Please keep me posted since I'm not active on this board and may not know when the group buy gains traction.

Steve


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## Daniel (Feb 28, 2009)

I have no idea really what a different tap size would do to the price. I do know that getting these made was a huge pain. Keep in mind they are basically custom made. I have spent the last couple of months seeing if I could find another source for them. No luck. It is pretty hard to get people to even understand what it is you want.

If I am counting right this list now shows 8 people, assuming nobody has fallen on hard times. the last buy was a real roller coaster of people getting in and out. But at this time I think we are within 4 people of making this one work. but we can't afford to loose one person.


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## me2cyclops (Feb 28, 2009)

I have put in RFQ's at a couple places.
the sets made before what was the class of fit , cutting depth for the tap , and it was bottoming correct?


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## Borg_B_Borg (Feb 28, 2009)

I think it's workable as it is.  The price difference between 8 and 12 sets is only $25 per person.  I personally would not be overly upset over paying $25 more.

Steve



Daniel said:


> If I am counting right this list now shows 8 people, assuming nobody has fallen on hard times. the last buy was a real roller coaster of people getting in and out. But at this time I think we are within 4 people of making this one work. but we can't afford to loose one person.


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## amosfella (Feb 28, 2009)

I'm still in, but hurry up before the Canadian dollar falls any further into the gutter......  :S


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## Daniel (Feb 28, 2009)

I am waiting for the pen mills to arrive. let me get past that and I will start the leg work on this. I have to contact the supplier end verify that the quote is still in the ball park etc.


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## BRobbins629 (Feb 28, 2009)

me2cyclops said:


> I have put in RFQ's at a couple places.
> the sets made before what was the class of fit , cutting depth for the tap , and it was bottoming correct?


Was not bottoming - different companies call it by different names, but these were called plug type, which is between starting and bottoming.


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## me2cyclops (Feb 28, 2009)

with the materials we are cutting do you think bottoming would be a problem? I have started threads in AL brass and copper with bottoming taps before without problem and they are easier to cut precise depth of usable threads


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## BRobbins629 (Feb 28, 2009)

me2cyclops said:


> with the materials we are cutting do you think bottoming would be a problem? I have started threads in AL brass and copper with bottoming taps before without problem and they are easier to cut precise depth of usable threads


When we first tried these, it really was a guess and too expensive to try both.  The plug style was a little of a compromise, but thought it would be easier to start and easier to keep straight.  Of all the reported issues with the sets, which are mostly around cracking some blanks, no one has even mentioned the plug style being an issue.  If it were me, I would not change something that works.

A good experiment if someone wants to take it on would be to get some lower cost single start bottom and plug taps and see which works best.  To me, the only down side of the plug style tap would be that you may need to cut a few more threads that are not used, but these are hidden unless you are making a transparent cap.  A little insurance for keeping it straight would be more important for me.


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## Borg_B_Borg (Feb 28, 2009)

Part of the problem with generating enough interest to get decent price breaks is getting the word out about these group buys.  How can it be done without breaking the forum rules?  As for myself, I only stumbled upon this thread.

Steve


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## amosfella (Mar 1, 2009)

Can you get other sizes of taps and dies, such as 9 and 10MM??


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## Daniel (Mar 1, 2009)

The way I understand it, Bruce or someone actually had to send a sample of the tap and die they wanted made to the supplier in order for them to get this buy going in the first place. I will ask them about other sizes but I would suspect they can be made in any size. PM me if you would like the contact info for the supplier because a one off order for a different size tap is going to have the full price attached to it. Might as well just order it directly.
As for making a buy more visible. I don't think it breaks any rules for members to mention a buy elsewhere on the forums. it is against the rules for me to go advertise it in other threads though. I personally hear far more comments of people being upset about missing a buy because they did not see it than I hear people complaining that there are to many ads etc. But those complaints tend to be via e-mail and pm's. Admin cannot be expected to respond to a problem they never hear about.


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## BRobbins629 (Mar 1, 2009)

Actually you can order any size or type you want.  In the original buy, I did send a section from an El Grande to be matched which is how we got the spec.  The intent at that time was to be able to use kit parts in combination with threaded parts.  Most have not done this, but with the sets purchased it is possible and has been done.  If you don't want to use any kit parts, the size, thread count and number of starts can be what ever you want.  You just need a group willing to use the same specs to get the price in a reasonable range.  I would be up for a set of smaller size, probably in the 11mm range and would'nt care if it was triple or quadruple start.  Doubt there would be much interest in something smaller, but you don't know if you don't ask.


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## me2cyclops (Mar 2, 2009)

quote from tapco USA


Our P/N 26265

M12-.8 3LD D5 4 Flute Bottoming Tap
2.4L HSG TAP

(1) qty. $152.90 each
(2) qty. $117.15 each
(3-5) qty. $87.89 each
(6) qty. $65.67 each

Delivery: 6 workdays to manufacture
_________________________________________

Our P/N 26266A

DM12-.8 3LD HS 1"OD Round Die

(1) qty. $120.40 each
(2) qty. $92.40 each
(3-5) qty. $68.60 each
(6) qty. $50.40 each

*There will also be a tooling charge of $60.00.

Delivery: 14-16 workdays to manufacture


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## davinci27 (Mar 2, 2009)

These numbers seem a bit lower than the original buy.  I would be in if we were closer to the $100 mark than the $200.  Looks like the price break stops at 6 is that correct, or do you think a buy of say 10-12 would push the price lower?

I haven't tried cutting any threads yet, and the $200 price tag is what's really been keeping me from giving it a shot.

Ben


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## me2cyclops (Mar 2, 2009)

I don't know if there are further discounts but at 6 each that puts us at $126.07 + postage not bad.
I just purchased a set from scubaman but I might buy a 2nd for backup


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## chriselle (Mar 3, 2009)

I think you'll get at least 6.  There might that number already.  I'm in of course.


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## amosfella (Mar 3, 2009)

10 mm is used on a lot of the smaller pens, which is why I wanted the 10 mm as well.


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## Borg_B_Borg (Mar 3, 2009)

I thought we decided to go with the intermediate plug type instead of bottoming due to the former's ease of starting and ease of keeping the hole straight.

Steve




me2cyclops said:


> quote from tapco USA
> 
> 
> Our P/N 26265
> ...


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## me2cyclops (Mar 3, 2009)

that was a quote I got before asking about bottoming or plug it isn't from the original supplier.
I'm not in charge just shopping around, waiting on a couple more quotes to come in .


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## amosfella (Mar 3, 2009)

Let me know about this.....  I"m still interested.


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## Daniel (Mar 6, 2009)

Mark, I have no problem with you taking this and going with it. This is not an official buy yet so all the details with Mannie still need to be cleared.


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## me2cyclops (Mar 6, 2009)

no I'm not trying to take over I was just checking around to see what kind of prices I could come up with , however I have a friend who has accounts with a few suppliers and if his prices come back ass low as he claims they will then I might have to do something like that. 
I should know something by monday


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## pipecrafter (Mar 6, 2009)

C'mon, Mark!  Don't you don't want to run a group buy? :biggrin:


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## Daniel (Mar 14, 2009)

An update, I am having some problems with my pay pal account and am looking for an alternative to it. Until then I am putting the group buys I have been doing on hold. for anyone reading this that is in on the pen mill buy I am still finishing that one with no changes. but basically I need to get the traffic of my account stopped long enough to transfer the money to a different account and before that I have to find a different service. 
What this means for this buy is that I will not be moving forward with it for an undetermined length of time. sorry for the delay


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## arw01 (Mar 21, 2009)

*What type of pen do you use these taps and dies for?*

What type of pen do you use these taps and dies for?

Are you trying to make your own parts out of wood to eliminate kit robbing?

What pen kit are we discussing in the thread that this set of tap and die will work with.

The 12M x .8  etc.

Alan


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## patharris (Mar 21, 2009)

*Response to Alan's Question Please*

I too, might be interested in a tap & die set if I knew what pens, etc folks were using it for.  Also, Would one of the taps work for Bottlestoper acrylic blanks?
   Pat 
Lexington, SC


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## BRobbins629 (Mar 21, 2009)

This is a special set that is the same thread design as the El Grande and Churchill, and while the top or bottom sections can be made to use with those kits, most who have and use these are doing custom pens with no kit components.  The difference between these and an ordinary tap and die is the multi-start feature typical of capped pens.  One turn on these threads is the equivalent of 3 turns of holding power on a single start thread.  Prior to spending a considerable sum on these, if you are interested in branching out into custom designs, I suggest starting with a lower cost single start set of the same diameter.  The pen will look the same, only take a few more twists to close.  Will let you know if this is something you want to tackle with a lot lower investment.


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## arw01 (Mar 21, 2009)

*You mean the cap that screws onto these pens?*

You mean the cap that screws onto these pens?

Appreciate the back story there.  

From pictures the Churchill looks like it does NOT screw on to the cap.

So are you guys making a pen with your OWN metal pieces with these tap and die sets?


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## amosfella (Mar 21, 2009)

It's not only for the holding power, but also, there is less chance of cross-threading if you use a triple or quad start.....


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## BRobbins629 (Mar 21, 2009)

arw01 said:


> You mean the cap that screws onto these pens?
> 
> Appreciate the back story there.
> 
> ...


The Churchill is a two piece pen.  The cap is removed from the bottom section when you want to write.  This tap cuts the internal threads on the cap that is removed and the die cuts the threads on the bottom section that screws into the cap.


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## workinforwood (Mar 24, 2009)

What about the inside of the pen section where the nib screws in, what taps that?  Do you need another set, or is that a standard metric single start thread found in a typical metric tap and die set?


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## amosfella (Mar 24, 2009)

I think you need a different set, with a single start....


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## BRobbins629 (Mar 24, 2009)

workinforwood said:


> What about the inside of the pen section where the nib screws in, what taps that?  Do you need another set, or is that a standard metric single start thread found in a typical metric tap and die set?


The nib for an El Grande or Churchill is very close to a 10 x 1 mm single start.  If you chase the threads with a die it works real well.


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## Kami (Apr 15, 2009)

Hmmm I would be in for a tap and Die set.

Thanks,

Andy


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## drferry (Apr 20, 2009)

This post has morphed somewhat, so maybe I can get this answered by you experts.  My favorite kit is the Jr Statesman postable.  Where, if anywhere, can I get a 3-4 start set that approximates these threads?


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## Daniel (Apr 21, 2009)

http://www.e-taps.com/
this is where the tap and die was finally found that is currently being gotten through group buys. looking for any other size tap and die set would be far easier through them than other sourced because they are now familiar with what we are looking for. You would probably have to send them a pen kit or at least the threaded parts so they could get an exact match. expect the same sort of price list as well.


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## stolicky (Sep 23, 2009)

This is an older thread, but after seeing George's unofficial (so far) tutorial on threading pens, I did a little research and came across this thread.  I would be interested if we can get a decent price on 3-4 start taps and dies.  Maybe this post will bring the topic back to life.

Here is the thread I am referring to:

http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=51646


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## Daniel (Sep 27, 2009)

I  have no problem with this group buy being revived. I just will not be able to do it myself at this time. Since this one was posted i have started the leather case group buy and am up to by butt in alligators with it right now.
If anyone is interested in taking it PM me for the suppliers contact info etc. After this long you might want to get an up to date quote for the taps and dies.

At the time this thread was active I did notice that several people got tap and die sets simply by buying them from other members. there are at least a couple dozen sets out there among the group and some have moved on to other interests since buying them.


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