# Pen mandrel question



## Jeff Barnett (Feb 23, 2011)

So I have been turning pens and small stuff for a couple years and have bent my fair share of mandrels. They all seam to be made from different metals or alloys atc. I started using the mandrel saver from psi and I am really liking it out of all the ones I have tried. I did pick up a pro mandrel from woodcraft that I have yet to try but all I can tell about that one is it has the collete so you can turn one blank at a time. Anyway, I was wondering If I were to buy some spare stock and just cut a new mandrel when I needed one,,,,,,,, what would be the hardest and least likely metal to bend?


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## its_virgil (Feb 23, 2011)

Why are you bending mandrels? There has to be a reason? A couple of reasons may be tightening the tail stock tight into the mandrel end. another is using dull tools and having to push hard against the blank to make the tool cut. 

Are you sure they are bent? Are the holes in your bushings concentric with the outer surface of the bushings? Headstock and tailstock out of alignment? Dirty morse taper in the head and/or tailstock? 

I use O2 drill rod to make mandrels. I use letter D size. I don't know if O2 drill rod is the hardest and least likely to bend but it works for me...I just  don't have problems with bent mandrels especially since I started using the Beall collet chuck to hold them.

Good luck.
Do a good turn daily!
Don






Jeff Barnett said:


> So I have been turning pens and small stuff for a couple years and have bent my fair share of mandrels. They all seam to be made from different metals or alloys atc. I started using the mandrel saver from psi and I am really liking it out of all the ones I have tried. I did pick up a pro mandrel from woodcraft that I have yet to try but all I can tell about that one is it has the collete so you can turn one blank at a time. Anyway, I was wondering If I were to buy some spare stock and just cut a new mandrel when I needed one,,,,,,,, what would be the hardest and least likely metal to bend?


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## terryf (Feb 23, 2011)

If I had to choose a steel I'd probably look for EN33.


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## Jeff Barnett (Feb 24, 2011)

its_virgil said:


> Why are you bending mandrels? There has to be a reason? A couple of reasons may be tightening the tail stock tight into the mandrel end. another is using dull tools and having to push hard against the blank to make the tool cut.
> 
> Are you sure they are bent? Are the holes in your bushings concentric with the outer surface of the bushings? Headstock and tailstock out of alignment? Dirty morse taper in the head and/or tailstock?
> 
> ...


 

For the same reason most pen turners do. A lot of what you stated and more. I have the basics covered but thanks for the info. My question stemmed from the type of mandrel that came with the PSI mandrel saver. It appears to be a much harder steel, which is interesting as the whole system runs on the theory of putting pressure on the bushings and not the mandrel. So why use what looks to be like stainless steel??


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## crabcreekind (Feb 25, 2011)

i have turned almost 40 pens now and my mandrel is still straight


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## Jeff Barnett (Feb 27, 2011)

crabcreekind said:


> i have turned almost 40 pens now and my mandrel is still straight


 

I have turned a couple hundred pens and bent a few mandrels. Lets stay on topic here. Do you have anything to add that pertains to my question?


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## JerrySambrook (Feb 27, 2011)

Gee Jeff,
   I think he was saying YOU are doing things wrong.
With the snappy comeback like you just gave, and the limited time here, do you really think YOU are making any friends?

Hope someone gives you an answer


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## Jeff Barnett (Feb 27, 2011)

JerrySambrook said:


> Gee Jeff,
> I think he was saying YOU are doing things wrong.
> With the snappy comeback like you just gave, and the limited time here, do you really think YOU are making any friends?
> 
> Hope someone gives you an answer


 
The thread is not about how my mandrels bent, it was simply asking what material someone would recommend. I am not here to make friends. I am here to learn a bit more about turning pens. If your gonna post sny remarks than I would expect a sny response.


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## LeeR (Feb 27, 2011)

Jeff Barnett said:


> JerrySambrook said:
> 
> 
> > Gee Jeff,
> ...


 
Jeff,

Might I suggest reading Dale Carnegie's book "How to Win Friends and Influence People".  Seriously.


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## Jeff Barnett (Feb 27, 2011)

LeeR said:


> Jeff Barnett said:
> 
> 
> > JerrySambrook said:
> ...


 
You could suggest it but I would remind you that my intention is not to make friends but rather to learn more about pen making. Also staying on topic is always a good thing on a forum. I can see now that this forum is not unlike any other. A lot of good people who have great info and a few class acts that think it is there obligation to post B.S. so they can fluff there post count or there ego. Lame.

 Oh, and thanks to Terry and Virgel for there info pertaining to mandrel materials.


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## its_virgil (Feb 27, 2011)

Jeff Barnett said:


> So why use what looks to be like stainless steel??



I would suggest contacting Ed Levy, owner of Penn State Industries, who is the only one who can answer why Penn State does what they do.



Jeff Barnett said:


> what would be the hardest and least likely metal to bend?



The hardest metal on earth is *Lutetium* (
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



/l(j)uːˈtiːʃiəm/ _lew-TEE-shee-əm_) is a chemical element with the symbol *Lu* and atomic number 71. It is in the d-block of the periodic table, not the f-block, but the IUPAC classifies it as a lanthanide.[2] It is one of the elements that traditionally were included in the classification, "rare earths". One of its radioactive isotopes (176Lu) is used in nuclear technology to determine the age of meteorites. Lutetium usually occurs in association with the element yttrium and is sometimes used in metal alloys and as a catalyst in various chemical reactions.

Sorry we can't be more helpful.

Do a good turn daily!
Don


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## Jeff Barnett (Feb 27, 2011)

its_virgil said:


> Jeff Barnett said:
> 
> 
> > So why use what looks to be like stainless steel??
> ...


 
Looks like the material you suggested is used by some others as well. Here is a reply from another forum I found helpfull.
0.246 rod.

That is the standard "D" size for drill bits and is available for a very low cost as oil hardening drill rod (O-1) in three foot lengths.  

If you are using either a collet chuck or an adjustable MT mandrel holding fixture, you need not thread the headstock end (1/4 by 28 NF is the common thread but some are 1/4 by 20 NC).

The length can be how ever long or short you want to cut the rod.  Bet precision is to turn one piece of a pen at a time with short rods.  Your choice.

Tailstock end can be dimpled with a center drill, or left plain if you use the PSI Mandrel saver or a Nova Live Chuck and a bushing.  

Tailstock thread is normally the NF if you use a nut.

Last I purchased was under $4 for per length of steel.


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## 1nfinity (Feb 27, 2011)

Jeff Barnett said:


> I did pick up a pro mandrel from woodcraft that I have yet to try but all I can tell about that one is it has the collete so you can turn one blank at a time.



Jeff,
That's why I prefer PSI's Maxi-Mandrel (comparable to the Woodcraft's pro mandrel) in conjunction with a 60 degree live-center at the tailstock. I adjust and shorten up the mandrel to turn one blank at a time. With the shortened length, flexure is very limited. The out-of-round problems I was encountering in spite of the fact that I was 1) using sharp tools, 2) not pushing the tool into the work, and 3) not over-tightening the madrel nut and tailstock were eliminated using this approach.
If you're intent on rod for the mandrel saver, check out the following supplier:
http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?id=148&step=2&showfrac=yes&top_cat=131


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## Jeff Barnett (Feb 27, 2011)

1nfinity said:


> Jeff Barnett said:
> 
> 
> > I did pick up a pro mandrel from woodcraft that I have yet to try but all I can tell about that one is it has the collete so you can turn one blank at a time.
> ...


 
Thanks for the good info and the link. I have not tried the pro mandrel yet I just picked it up when I bought a new lathe last week up at Woodcraft. I like the mandrel saver from PSI so far but even know it eliminates the pressure on the end of the mandrel there is still a little wobble on the tail stock end of the mandrel. So it looks like the only way to really get good results is one blank at a time no matter which system I am using.  
 If you haven't looked at the mandrel saver from PSI I recommend it as it eliminates the need to tighten collets. Just slide the tail stock up to the bushing, tighten and start roughing. Though it seams even with what looks like stainless steel the inevitable wobble still rears its ugly head.


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## 1nfinity (Feb 27, 2011)

Or, if you want to completely avoid mandrels, check out George's "Turning Between Centers" article in the IAP 2010 library.
http://content.penturners.org/articles/2010/turningbetweencenters.pdf

One more thought:
Yes, I've looked at the mandrel saver in the past. As a heads-up, though the mandrel saver receives high ratings on the Penn State site, the customer reviews are riddled with feedback regarding noise, issues with bearings, and run-out (hence wobble) due to poor tolerances. Hope this helps.


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## Jeff Barnett (Feb 27, 2011)

1nfinity said:


> Or, if you want to completely avoid mandrels, check out George's "Turning Between Centers" article in the IAP 2010 library.
> http://content.penturners.org/articles/2010/turningbetweencenters.pdf
> 
> One more thought:
> Yes, I've looked at the mandrel saver in the past. As a heads-up, though the mandrel saver receives high ratings on the Penn State site, the customer reviews are riddled with feedback regarding noise, issues with bearings, and run-out (hence wobble) due to poor tolerances. Hope this helps.


 

I have to say it does make an interesting noise. I think I will throw in the WC pro tonight and try 1 blank at a time. Thanks.


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## JerrySambrook (Feb 27, 2011)

Ain't worth talking to


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## Lenny (Feb 27, 2011)

1nfinity said:


> Or, if you want to completely avoid mandrels, check out George's "Turning Between Centers" article in the IAP 2010 library.
> http://content.penturners.org/articles/2010/turningbetweencenters.pdf
> 
> One more thought:
> Yes, I've looked at the mandrel saver in the past. As a heads-up, though the mandrel saver receives high ratings on the Penn State site, the customer reviews are riddled with feedback regarding noise, issues with bearings, and run-out (hence wobble) due to poor tolerances. Hope this helps.


 
There was an issue with early versions of the mandrel saver, however PSI stood behind them and will replace any that exhibit the noise problem.
I purchased one from WoodnWhimsies and even in spite of it setting on my shelf for months, when I informed them of the problem they sent a replacement immediately!  Great service!!!


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## Gary Beasley (Feb 27, 2011)

I got a mandrel saver but my drive started making more noise and I was worried I was going to damage my bearings from the pressure needed to keep the blank from slipping while turning even with the lightest cuts. I have a Delta 12" VS so your lathe may be a sturdier build.


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## SGM Retired (Feb 27, 2011)

Jeff,

Have had the same questions in my mind for some time.  My first mandrel was from Woodcraft and after a few pens it to bent but I'm sure I was the one that did the bending by taking the tail stock away before I lossened the nut.  You just don't bend it back straight agin.  I then bought the mandrel saver from PSI and now all is straight again. even if it does not match up stight on you can push over to insert onto saver and all wooks great.  Now for the replacement steel rod for the mndrel from Woodcraft, I just bought a 1/4 inch rod from Lowes and it fit right into the mandrel chuck from Woodcraft.  It poshed in but the issue was the 7mm bushings did not slip on easily, so I tunred om lathe and sanded with 220 grit sand paper to make the rod shine and presto the bushings fit.  So now I have the mandrel with saver from PSI and and extra mandrel to use when ever.  I might add that you can make the rod almost any lenght (up to 12") and turn two sets of slime line pens at once.  My take.  Gary


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## robutacion (Feb 27, 2011)

Jeff Barnett said:


> JerrySambrook said:
> 
> 
> > Gee Jeff,
> ...



So Jeff, in that case, who do you thing is going to spend their time and share their knowledge to allow you to achieve your goal...???

George


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## MesquiteMan (Feb 27, 2011)

All right, everyone, let's tone it down a little!  

So the fellow does not want to make friends and become part of the IAP family, that is fine.  That is his choice but he will be missing out on the best part of IAP!

Curtis O. Seebeck
IAP Head Moderator


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## Jeff Barnett (Feb 27, 2011)

SGM Retired said:


> Jeff,
> 
> Have had the same questions in my mind for some time. My first mandrel was from Woodcraft and after a few pens it to bent but I'm sure I was the one that did the bending by taking the tail stock away before I lossened the nut. You just don't bend it back straight agin. I then bought the mandrel saver from PSI and now all is straight again. even if it does not match up stight on you can push over to insert onto saver and all wooks great. Now for the replacement steel rod for the mndrel from Woodcraft, I just bought a 1/4 inch rod from Lowes and it fit right into the mandrel chuck from Woodcraft. It poshed in but the issue was the 7mm bushings did not slip on easily, so I tunred om lathe and sanded with 220 grit sand paper to make the rod shine and presto the bushings fit. So now I have the mandrel with saver from PSI and and extra mandrel to use when ever. I might add that you can make the rod almost any lenght (up to 12") and turn two sets of slime line pens at once. My take. Gary


 

Thanks for the info. Looks like a trip to lowes is in my future. Hmm, two pens at once......that would be nice.


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## keithkarl2007 (Feb 28, 2011)

This is just sad. I know I shouldn't post as I have no info regarding your original topic but I fear very few will offer you any advice in the foreseeable future because of your attitude. This is a great place and we all treat each other almost like family. Stepping on their toes isn't the way to go as many of them I regard as really close friends.


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## Jeff Barnett (Feb 28, 2011)

keithkarl2007 said:


> This is just sad. I know I shouldn't post as I have no info regarding your original topic but I fear very few will offer you any advice in the foreseeable future because of your attitude. This is a great place and we all treat each other almost like family. Stepping on their toes isn't the way to go as many of them I regard as really close friends.


 
You are certainly welcome to your opinion. I am not here to impress you or anyone. If some one gives me crap they are gonna get it back. Thats the way of the world. I don't care how many posts they have. Not everyone is here for social reasons. Some (like myself) are here to simply read and share info. IDK why some people always get so emotionally involved in forums? Thats cool if you want to use this as a social site but I don't. Sorry if that offends you but I guess you are just gonna have to get over it. Sending juvenile threatening Pm's is certainly not gonna change anything. 

Oh, and I am not sure if you read the thread but plenty of people were willing to give answers based on there experience that pertains to the original topic.


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## MesquiteMan (Feb 28, 2011)

FOLKS....STOP IT NOW!


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