# Are fancy ($$$) drill bits THAT useful?



## redfishsc (Jul 22, 2006)

So what is the deal with the fancy drill bits like the Fisch Vortex and the Berea parabolic fluted drill bits? Are they worth what they cost? 

Can the Berea bits be sharpened on the lower-end Drill Doctor?


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## RussFairfield (Jul 22, 2006)

I use the "Bullet Point" drills because I think they are better than the others. I have no idea if that is true or not.


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## alamocdc (Jul 22, 2006)

Fish, we had the Fisch Tool folks come talk to our woodworking association about drill bits last year. Based on the description of the manufacturing process and their warranty, I'd say yes, they are worth it... but only if you will be using them professionally on a daily basis. Even though I chuck several bits a day up in my DP, I stick with the TN coated 115 bit set from HF. At the sale price (~$39) I can replace it every three to five years and still come out ahead. I keep them sharp with my Drill Doctor and haven't had a problem. Of course none of them go over 1/2" so for the bigger bits we need with some kits, I order from AS or CSUSA.

I have a few Norseman that I got from AS and I love them. Can't answer about the Berea parabolics.


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## Rifleman1776 (Jul 23, 2006)

They are worth it to the sellers who think up these weird drill bit sizes in the first place. [] Other than that, what Billy B. said is true. Stick with the sets and sharpen in a DD.


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## cozee (Jul 23, 2006)

Drill bits are just like knives. They are made of metal and designed to hold a cutting edge. And this edge is the important part!!! Having worked with metal most of my life, I have found that no matter the $$$, if it isn't sharp it isn't going to do the job you are expecting. However, a good bit, due to better alloy composition ($$$), will hold an edge longer than a cheaper bit. I would suggest try a sample of a variety of bits and see what suits you. I have seen guys use $$$ bits and watch them fail time and time again when trying to penetrate stainless steel yet a low buck bit gets the job done in the hands of someone else. In these cases, heat was the killer of the $$$ bits. There are a variety of factors which adds to the sucess or failure of a bit. Heat weakens metal and a weakened cutting edge will quickly roll; dull. The 3 major factors are: Drilling  speed (no, one speed doesn't fit all!!)when excessive builds heat (If it's red, it's dead!!). Drilling pressure of which most use to much of builds up heat. The bits ability to evacuate material along it's flutes is also a factor. Material retention causes excessive heat build up. Air, albeit not the best does help to dissapate heat so whatever airspace can be gained by rapid chip removal is a plus to bit life. The cooler a bit stays while performing it's job, the longer it will keep an edge. Hardwoods, and even knots, burls, and other irregularities in any wood can cause heat build up and or a physical dulling of an edge.   Another thing to watch for on bits used for drilling wood is pitch build up. This also adds to heat retention and also blocks one's view of the bit tip. Watch the bit tip for a bluish discoloration in the bit itself. This would mean that there has been some heat build up and it is time to sharpen the bit. The more heat is allowed to build up in the bit, the more material that needs to be removed when sharpening. There are other important factors when considering a drill bit for proper applications but heat is the major player no matter the job.

In a nutshell, learn the proper use of a drill bit and related tools, and sharpening of the bit. Then, if you have a bit that works for, you then you have a useful bit!


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## Dario (Jul 23, 2006)

I agree with Gregory (cozee)...same reason we buy expensive turning tools.

That said, I found that the best bits so far are the Norseman bits from Bill B.  I don't want to pay premium though so I bought a set of DeWalt bits and they do work great too.

Planning on buying the set from HF later toosince it is getting good reviews.


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## Ron in Drums PA (Jul 23, 2006)

I tried one of Berea's parabolic fluted drill bits and it cuts amazingly well. Better than any other drill bit that I have used.

BUT............

If and when I neen a new set of drill bits, I'd go with the HF's set, just like Billy B.


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## Ron in Drums PA (Jul 23, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Rifleman1776_
> <br />They are worth it to the sellers who think up these weird drill bit sizes in the first place.



Sorry to burst your bubble Frank, most of these "Weird" drill bit sizes have been around longer than you.


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## Rifleman1776 (Jul 23, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Ron in Drums PA_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...



There is little in this world that has been around longer than me. []
Maybe I should have said "....the seller who think up the NEED FOR these weird.....". []


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## redfishsc (Jul 23, 2006)

I've wondered myself why kits HAVE TO be designed with such odd drill bit sizes. I see no reason why the kit couldn't be designed with something on the 16th steps rather than the 32nd and 64th steps. 

Metric bits are easy for me and most to find since you can go to any pro tool shop and get them (my local even carries them in half mm steps).


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## Ron in Drums PA (Jul 23, 2006)

> _Originally posted by redfishsc_
> <br />I've wondered myself why kits HAVE TO be designed with such odd drill bit sizes. I see no reason why the kit couldn't be designed with something on the 16th steps rather than the 32nd and 64th steps.
> 
> Metric bits are easy for me and most to find since you can go to any pro tool shop and get them (my local even carries them in half mm steps).



1.5mm  = .0591"
1/16" = .0625"

1mm   = .0394" 
1/32" = .0313"

.5mm  = .0197"
1/64" = .0156"

Where are you located? Most pro shops by me don't carry metric sizes.


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## rtparso (Jul 23, 2006)

> Can the Berea bits be sharpened on the lower-end Drill Doctor?


I am not sure what the angles are on the parabolic bit, but the drill doctor can regrind bits. I have converted a dull B&D to a standard bit. I belive the special thing about the parabolic flute and the way it clears chips (see cozee's post). Drilling is simple and there isn't much to add to cozee's post but sharp, pressure, cooling. For something so simple it sure can be complex.


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## jaywood1207 (Jul 23, 2006)

> _Originally posted by RussFairfield_
> <br />I use the "Bullet Point" drills because I think they are better than the others. I have no idea if that is true or not.



I switched to the DeWalt bullet points and love them.  They cut cleaner and track straighter IMHO.


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## johncrane (Jul 23, 2006)

I have a some bulletpoint bits. I wish I had a lot more like Russ said they work better than others.


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## gerryr (Jul 25, 2006)

Can you sharpen a bulletpoint bit on a Drill Doctor?


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## vbatwork (Jul 25, 2006)

I usually try and find an American made product where I can because I think generally the quality is better. I won't argue with those on here that turn for a living and are getting good results from off shore sets...but...they will have to pry my Norseman set from my cold dead hands! I drill quite a bit and I haven't had to sharpen these yet. I believe they are holding an edge way longer than my HF set did. JMHO!


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## Dario (Jul 25, 2006)

> _Originally posted by vbatwork_
> <br />I usually try and find an American made product where I can because I think generally the quality is better. I won't argue with those on here that turn for a living and are getting good results from off shore sets...but...they will have to pry my Norseman set from my cold dead hands! I drill quite a bit and I haven't had to sharpen these yet. I believe they are holding an edge way longer than my HF set did. JMHO!



No question that Norseman bits are very good...but the price is a deal breaker!!!  I can buy the HF 115 set for what?...the price of the 3 biggest ones? (maybe for even less)

Same reason I am driving a Toyota...can't afford a BMW or Benz []


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## alamocdc (Jul 25, 2006)

> _Originally posted by vbatwork_
> <br />I usually try and find an American made product where I can...



That's why I drive a Chevy. Oh, wait a minute. I think my S-10 parts are made in Japan.[:0][}]


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## vbatwork (Jul 27, 2006)

Dario, I agree that I could go through several sets of HF bits for the same price as the Norseman. I had a set of those, though they were brad point (another issue). I'm not very gentle with my bits. In addition to pens, I do a fair amount of general woodworking with them. I truly believe Norseman's are holding an edge better on the same work thus far. Soooo...after touting American made stuff here...I see my little Ford Ranger has a Mazda engine. [V] Please disregard any earlier advise I gave on this thread! []


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## Dario (Jul 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by alamocdc_
> <br />wait a minute. I think my S-10 parts are made in Japan.[:0][}]



MADE IN JAPAN!? You are very lucky then...you must have a very nice and special S-10 [}][}][}]

Honestly, I would rather buy a Toyota with an engine made in Japan than anything made here.  I may be kicked for this but it is the truth...or atleast how I feel, sorry.

Sad since we have better grade steel here....seems like their manufacturing tolerances there are more "stringent".


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## Dario (Jul 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by vbatwork_
> <br />Dario, I agree that I could go through several sets of HF bits for the same price as the Norseman. I had a set of those, though they were brad point (another issue). I'm not very gentle with my bits. In addition to pens, I do a fair amount of general woodworking with them. I truly believe Norseman's are holding an edge better on the same work thus far. Soooo...after touting American made stuff here...I see my little Ford Ranger has a Mazda engine. [V] Please disregard any earlier advise I gave on this thread! []



Your advise is sound so it should NOT be disregarded.  I too will buy Norseman bits if I can.  For the majority though...especially the bobbyist, the cheaper M2 HSS bits will last long enough.  Not to mention avoiding the hassle of not having the right sized bit when you need it.  Having a complete set (atleast up to 1/2") has lots of advantages.  To some of us...cost savings is the biggest.


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## alamocdc (Jul 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Dario_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...



Yep, like the Ford Ranger is simply a Mazda with a Ford label on it (Mazda is now part of the Ford family), the Chevy S-10 is an Isuzu with a Chevy label (and there is a similar tie between GM and Isuzu). In fact, many of the body parts in each family are interchangeable.


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## emackrell (Jul 27, 2006)

Yep, we "bobbyists" are perfectly happy with the cheaper HSS bits...[]

cheers  EIleen


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## redfishsc (Jul 31, 2006)

I had a Toyota Tacoma[] :sniff:

I wrecked it a couple months back. [] :sob:

I miss my Taco. He was a good boy.


We just put the ins. settlement in the bank and now we just ride around in my wife's Chevy. Saves us a ton on insurance.


I had a Toyota [] :sniff:


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## Pipes (Aug 1, 2006)

IMHO a Sharp drill bit is the # 1 thing so again IMO any bit a do as long as you keepem sharp ! Better ones STAY sharp longer ala better steel ! But IF you have a Drill Dr any quality a do IMHO !!!I got 3 sets 2 really HI quality and the HF set all work as good as the other I just keepem sharp ! and I split the points I seem to likem that way better IMO now only ....[8D]




http://affordablepipes.com/


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## kenwc (Sep 8, 2006)

For those of you who like the Norseman drill bits.  I know that AZ has the nice set with the rugged case for $104 right now.  I just recieved my set and as luck would have it, I just found the same set for $89 with the same case or $79 with a std metal case at this website:

http://www.fairburyfastener.com/norseman.htm

Oh well..


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## Randy_ (Sep 9, 2006)

> _Originally posted by gerryr_
> <br />Can you sharpen a bulletpoint bit on a Drill Doctor?



No.  But you can regrind them to a split point configuration which many people say does a good job, too.(requires a DD model XP, 500 or 750)  Russ is in a different boat than most of us and probably treats his drills as a throw-away item.

I have never investigated commercial drill sharpening services.  Don't know if one could be found to sharpen bullet point bits and don't know if it would be economical for all of us hobbyists??  Has anyone out there looked into this situation??


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## kenwc (Sep 9, 2006)

> _Originally posted by RussFairfield_
> <br />I use the "Bullet Point" drills because I think they are better than the others. I have no idea if that is true or not.



I agree with you. I don't know why either but lately, most of the time I've hade 100% success with bullet point and something way less than that with brad point or other.


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## PenTurnerJohn (Sep 9, 2006)

Is it possible to sharpen the Norseman bits on a Drill Doctor?


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## Mudder (Sep 9, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Randy__
> <br />I have never investigated commercial drill sharpening services.  Don't know if one could be found to sharpen bullet point bits and don't know if it would be economical for all of us hobbyists??  Has anyone out there looked into this situation??



I have looked into a commercial sharpening service and for less than 100 bits of a particular size in the bullet point they charge more to sharpen than a new bit costs (the set-up time for multiple grinds is what costs).  I have "seen the light" and as many others have and I now use a Drill Doctor to make really sharp split points. They seem to do the job for me.


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## bonefish (Sep 9, 2006)

I have a set of TN coated drills I purchased at Costco several years ago. Many of them are in 1/64 inch increments. So far, I have been able to find a drill that will work without having to go with the metric and letter size drills.

There might be more or less clearence between the tube and the hole with the Cosco bits than with the Metric and letter sizes, but I have nefer seen any specifications on what the clearence should be.

Of course, I won't use a bit large enough to take two or three tubes the same time, but in this instance, I thing close good enough.

Anyone ever been turning a blank B2B for something like a rollerball and go through to the glue? I had rather have the hole a little tight, as long as there is enough room for the glue, and no one has said (that I know off) that you need a thick glob of glue.

Bonefish


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## Randy_ (Sep 9, 2006)

> _Originally posted by bonefish_
> <br />.....I have a set of TN coated drills.....in 1/64 inch increments. <b>So far</b>, I have been able to find a drill that will work without having to go with the metric and letter size drills.
> 
> There might be more or less clearence between the tube and the hole.....than with the Metric and letter sizes.....I thing close good enough.
> ...



I'm glad your 64th" drill bits are working for you; but.....
What about tomorrow.....when you do a $50 kit with a $20 blank that is a hair green and the hole is very tight?  You might be looking at a cracked blank?  !/64" is 0.0156" or about 0.4 mm. which means a hole might be off by as much as 0.008".  Probably close enough if you want to take the risk with slimline kits or some of the other inexpensive kits; but when doing the more expensive kits, I think I would not be satisfied with a "close enough" philosophy


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