# Not happy at all!



## ladycop322 (Feb 12, 2015)

Ok...so now I am going to VENT!

I do not want to specify the vendors that are really making me fume, but there are two specifically that I think needs to be addressed.

One of the vendors here, offers priority mail, which I pay EXTRA for, and I don't receive my items for five to six days!  Not the two to three that I pay priority postage for.  That is absurd!  Don't offer priority if you cannot get the product to the customer in priority time!

The other vendor offers percentages off but when you go to order most everything is OUT OF STOCK!  Really?  Don't you prepare ahead of time knowing that you are going to sell out?

How do people run businesses today?  Withouta customer base, you wouldn't have a business!

OK...I'm finished venting.

Thanks for listening (reading) and have a blessed day!

:frown::frown::frown::frown:


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## designer (Feb 12, 2015)

Switch to TWC from Comcast?

I agree.  2 to three days for packaging not including holidays, sick days or weekends should be noted when you go thru the ordering process.

I quit using one large vendor after they completely horsed up my first 3 orders.  Not small dollar orders either.  Long story short, I do not use them anymore. It hurts them more than it does me.

Did it solve the problem?  Probably not, but in the mean time I sleep at night knowing that the good ones get my money and they lost my business.


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## Janster (Feb 12, 2015)

*And folks......*

..that is why I purchase most exclusively from "Smitty's Pen Works! "
no delays nor excuses, timely delivery and very reasonable prices! No, I am not affiliated, just ELATED! YMMV, Be well.......Jan


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## TonyL (Feb 12, 2015)

Think of all of the money you saved on the out of stock sale items? That's even a greater discount .


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## H2O (Feb 12, 2015)

I have noticed this also. I've seen the percentages off, so I decided to take a look at the specific website, and everything I had interest in, was "out of stock". This alone will prevent myself from ordering from that particular vendor in the future. It makes no difference how much advertising that is presented. Sorry, but the decision was made for me.


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## mredburn (Feb 12, 2015)

Not all the vendors have deep pockets. Not to the extent of ordering extra of everything they carry, and if its one of our vendors that sell Artists products they can only sell what they get. Most of  the artist blanks are made in limited quantities.  They may have to order and Pay 3-6 months in advance of the Bash from the Taiwan or Chinese suppliers they use.  The mail delivery problem has been a thorn for a while.


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## TonyL (Feb 12, 2015)

I just ordered what they had...still got a good deal!


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## its_virgil (Feb 12, 2015)

priority mail 2 or 3 day service is a post office "guarantee" not a vendor guarantee. Two or three days to pack and ship then 2 or 3 days for delivery..5 or 6 days. If the vendor packs and ships on the same day then your beef is with the post office and not the vendor. Vendors have no control over the post office delivery time. So, is your delivery beef with the vendor's slow pack and ship or with the post office's slow delivery?

I have no idea on the other vent.
Do a good turn daily!
Don


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## magpens (Feb 12, 2015)

With all due respect .... when a vendor offers priority shipping I think they are making a commitment with the buyer to expedite the picking and packing and to get the shipment out their door in priority time.


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## H2O (Feb 12, 2015)

mredburn said:


> Not all the vendors have deep pockets. Not to the extent of ordering extra of everything they carry, and if its one of our vendors that sell Artists products they can only sell what they get. Most of  the artist blanks are made in limited quantities.  They may have to order and Pay 3-6 months in advance of the Bash from the Taiwan or Chinese suppliers they use.  The mail delivery problem has been a thorn for a while.



If the vendor can not supply their products for an advertised sale, then they should at least offer rain checks during their sale. What's the point of having a sale without product? Just to gain traffic to your website? 
It doesn't present the company in a positive manner. 

When a retailer advertises a product at a good deal, I know they will not have it available, so I take the advertisement to their competitor that honors the price match. I get the product without the games.:wink:

Might be food for thought for pen supply vendors.


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## Dan Masshardt (Feb 12, 2015)

IMO, the discount thing depends only on if they had stock when the sale started.  

Pen turners can buy up massive quantities of stuff quickly.  It's not uncommon for someone to but 50-100 of something they use often.  

Personally I expect that stuff will sell out. And the better the sale the faster I expect it to sell out.


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## Dan Masshardt (Feb 12, 2015)

On the shipping, of course no vendor can be responsible for what the post office does but does have some control over when they get it to the USPS. 

I've learned which vendors seem to ship very quickly and which take a couple days to get it out.    And adjust expectations accordingly.  

I guess the problem some vendors create for themselves is that if they usually ship very quickly, we come to expect it every time.   And occasionally it doesn't happen.


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## sbwertz (Feb 12, 2015)

Perhaps vendors should put limits on how many one person can order at a discount, especially during the Bash.  That would make supplies last a bit longer.


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## Old Codger (Feb 12, 2015)

I have to agree with you!  When vendors promise one thing and deliver another, it's time to warn other members!  IAP's "Cheers' and 'Jeers' posting are a great resource for woodturners and I certainly don't mind sending a 'cheers' for those vendors who totally fulfill their obligations but I also don't mind sending a 'jeers' for those vendors who don't!  Great service deserves rewards while poor service deserves what they get!  I'm not talking about ONE instance, I'm talking about repeated service...  Woodturners are just like other customers...they should be willing to reward/punish those vendors that want our business...  You certainly wouldn't continue to buy spoiled milk from a grocery store if they continued to advertise fresh milk would you?  The same applies to wood turning resouces...  If you can't deliver, get out of the business and don't rip off your customers!!!  For those great vendors, a SHOUT out to all of you and for your hard work!  We WILL continue shopping with your and recommend you to our friends!!!


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## MesquiteMan (Feb 12, 2015)

magpens said:


> With all due respect .... when a vendor offers priority shipping I think they are making a commitment with the buyer to expedite the picking and packing and to get the shipment out their door in priority time.



With all due respect...is the vendor offering priority shipping or priority handling?  Sorry that you think that offering priority shipping means the same as priority handling.  It does not.  Most vendors have a work flow  for pulling and packing orders.  This work flow is the same whether the package is shipping slow boat of fast plane!  When the label gets printed is when the speed of shipping is determined.

Also, on this rant, it has not been said when the package was actually shipped.  It may have very well been delivered to the post office the same day the order was placed and it took the post office longer than "normal". If it was not shipped the same day, what is their policy?  Most of use have written policies that say when things will ship.  In my case, it says it will SHIP in 24 hrs or less in most cases with in stock items.  Of course if you place your order at 5 pm Friday afternoon, it will not ship until Monday since I do not work weekends as that is my family time.  

 I shipped an order earlier this week.  It was shipped in 2 Large Flat Rate Priority Mail boxes.  I delivered to the post office the same afternoon that the order was received.  One box got to the customer in 3 days.  The other did not show at the same time.  He texted me this morning that tracking showed the other box was in California (he is in Georgia).  That one will take 5 days to get to him.  Am I to blame?


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## jewellmd (Feb 12, 2015)

I'm sure for a lot of us who make a product (and continue to make the same product over and over)... Depending on the particular item, we may purchase a single kit, or a small handful of such kit.  Upon selling finished products - we may turn around and buy twice as many.  Keep doing that over and over, you'd find yourself reasonably stocked with kits.

Similarly with sites who sell supplies, kits, etc. if they have an inventory and sell them, they could use some of their profits to purchase more than before.  Unlike food, these products do not spoil.  If they found that a particular style started to not sell well, they could have a fire sale and burn thru their inventory and not expect to carry that product again (similar to brick & mortar stores do).

On the flip side, if a retailer had an unexpected spike in sales, well that happens (look at Black Friday or cyber Monday for instance).  Those things happen, but it's to be expected.  Most any other times, a rain check would at least retain that customer.

I've had that happen to me and I totally understand the frustration.  If it's a place where they constantly are out of stock, I'd probably black ball them too.

My two cents


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## alankulwicki7 (Feb 13, 2015)

ladycop322 said:


> Ok...so now I am going to VENT!
> 
> I do not want to specify the vendors that are really making me fume, but there are two specifically that I think needs to be addressed.
> 
> ...



I understand your frustration with the Out of Stock stuff. I was hoping to take advantage of a sale at last years Bash and one vendor was out of stock on the items I wanted. I've checked periodically since then and these items have never been IN stock. I could have easily ordered these items from another vendor but I wanted to 'Buy Local' and take advantage of the sale.

If you are not going to restock at any time within a year, maybe it's time to remove these items from your store.


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## BJohn (Feb 13, 2015)

For those of you standing up for the vendors. Excuses, excuses & more excuses. When the words priority is used and you beef up what you are paying then you need to get it out the door and into the USPS hands.

I have NOT had one package sent priority mail that took more then 3 days to get to me. Unless there maybe a Sunday involved. My goodness I order timber from a guy on the Big Island of Hawaii and the USPS priority mail ALWAYS has it to me on time.

Quit making excuses if you offer it. Use the slogan "And Just Do it".  That simple.

And Michelle I would be willing to put bet on the large vendor. I Don't use them any more period for nothing. Don't care what the price.

So instead of Buyer beware maybe in this day and age it should be VENDOR BEWARE

(I shipped an order earlier this week.  It was shipped in 2 Large Flat  Rate Priority Mail boxes.  I delivered to the post office the same  afternoon that the order was received.  One box got to the customer in 3  days.  The other did not show at the same time.  He texted me this  morning that tracking showed the other box was in California (he is in  Georgia).  That one will take 5 days to get to him.  Am I to blame? 		)

Curtis finished reading you post. I don't think any reasonable person would hold you accountable for that. It is when you order something priority and the vendor takes 2 -3 days to get into the USPS hands. That's the gripe !


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## Jgrden (Feb 13, 2015)

I know to whom you are referring. I am waiting for an order at this moment from that same company.


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## nativewooder (Feb 13, 2015)

Ladycop,

One thing I hope you don't have to live with is the WPB Post Office!  A couple of weeks ago I had a package go to WPB and they are supposed to ship to Fort Pierce.  Took WPB four (4) days to ship to FP.  Hope none of your packages go through there.

Before I had to quit turning, I was used to two or three day FRB shipping from Wisconsin, Utah, Colorado, and others.  You kind of have to shop around to see who really has a good shipping system for getting the packages to the USPS.

Good Luck!  I like your turnings!

Barry L Elder


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## oneleggimp (Feb 13, 2015)

NO.  You are not to blame for the USPS.  I do think that it's nice when a vendor picks, packs and ships the same day the order is placed if the order is placed by noon (the Vendor's local time).  I have several vendors who do that.  If the packages get to the post office that same day (assuming I ordered in the morning vendors local time) then that is Great Customer Service in my humble Opinion.  USPS is another  matter.  Pony Express in the Nineteenth Century was as good as USPS in many instances but that is beyond the vendor's control and they should not be held accountable for that.  On the flip side of the coin, I know one rather large vendor who does not pick, pack and ship very promptly.  (sometimes two to three days for that to happen and that with an order placed in the morning local vendor time) and I DO find that blameworthy. I wouldn't deal with them except they have stuff that others don't.


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## Rink (Feb 13, 2015)

I suppose I will chime in.  Also, with due respect to all involved.  I’ve been in retailing for more than 30 years, with a very large and successful company.  I’ve learned several lessons over the years. Some of you have probably been involved in retailing as well, and may have learned these same lessons.
99% of success in retail is this: Price, Assortment, and Instock.  All else makes up only the other 1% of the equation.  Have the best price…offer a great assortment…have the merchandise instock when the customer wants to buy it.  I just want to buy what I need at a great price when I need it.  By the way…if it’s not instock, then you effectively don’t have the assortment or the price.
If your shipping is slightly slow, or your location inconvenient (or your website clunky), but you’re really solid on that 99% with great price, assortment, and instock, we will probably forgive you pretty easily and cut you some slack.  But if you’re not solid on the first 99%, you get no forgiveness for the other stuff.
A wise old merchant once told me “Never show the customer something they can’t buy.”  Sage advice. If your website shows the greatest item ever, but it’s perpetually out of stock…you have created disappointment that will linger w/ the customer far longer than the satisfaction of a successful transaction.
To Fellow Customers: in my experience, nobody really understands what it takes to run a retail business unless they’ve done it, or been on the inside.  Trust me, there’s much more to it than “just do it”. You have no idea what it takes to get a $0.69 can of green beans on the shelf and that’s with world-class logistics! It must be much more of a challenge for the vendors we’re ordering from. 
To Vendors: Three suggestions: 1. Offer the best price.  2. Have a great assortment. 3. If you’re going to show it, then please have it so I can buy it.
Respectfully, rink.


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## Warren White (Feb 13, 2015)

*My 2 cent's worth*

I am a buyer, not a vendor, so my observations are from that perspective.  I don't wish to offend anyone, just letting you know how it feels from my end.

My gripes (each has happened to me):  
If you don't have the quantity of product you advertise, and you have offered a discount for a quantity buy, that discount should apply to the 'rest' of my order when it comes in.  One vendor wouldn't (Jeers to them); another only corrected the price when I called them (half a Cheer to them).  I understand that some folks order a LOT of items, I don't.  Also, I shouldn't have to pay shipping twice when you don't have the total order in stock.  I did (Jeers).

If I drive 70 miles, and over a toll bridge to buy something from you and you don't have it, if I offer to pay for it, ship it to me free when you get it.  My closest store wouldn't even discuss it (Jeers).

If you tell me I can expect an items in X days,  I don't care to hear that it is a USPS (or other shipper's) problem.  I ordered something on the 2nd of the month, it didn't show up at the shipper until the 5th, and it still isn't here.  Do what  you need to do to get it to me in the time frame you offered.  It will probably be here today, but that will be 11 days. 

Gripe session off....  Hope no one is unhappy with me.


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## MesquiteMan (Feb 13, 2015)

BJohn said:


> Curtis finished reading you post. I don't think any reasonable person would hold you accountable for that. It is when you order something priority and the vendor takes 2 -3 days to get into the USPS hands. That's the gripe !



It depends on what the vendor's shipping policy is!  If they state in their policies that most orders ship in 1-2 days, the method of shipping is irrelevant as long as they hand the stuff off to the shipper within their stated time.  If they state all order received by 3pm ship same day, then I expect them to hand off the stuff to the shipper the same day.  If they do not state anything, then I usually contact them to figure out what their policy is.  Then again, if I am waiting to the last minute to where a couple of extra days is going to affect me, I probably should have planned better!

As for charging more than the cost and you expecting faster packing, remember, there is significant cost in packing orders.  And I am not defending this practice of charging more than the cost because I do that.  As a matter of fact, I charge my actual cost which happens to be less than most pay even going online since I have special pricing with the USPS.  For example, at the PO a LFR box is $17.90, online pricing which is what most vendors pay is $15.80.  My cost is $15.54 and that is what I charge for that size box.  I just include the cost of packing and shipping supplies as well as labor in my general overhead rather than the cost of the shipping.

And just FYI, I am not making excuses for vendors!  I am a vendor, of course, and I know the other side of things.  I also purchase over $100,000 worth of stuff on the internet each year and deal with the same issues.  For my business, we make it a top priority to ship in stock items (in stock being other than chambers) asap.  I have a computer system that checks my site every 5 minutes for orders and pulls them down and prints them on the shop printer.  We walk by the printer and grab orders and pack them immediately.  They then get labels generated and printed and the customer gets an e-mail with tracking info.  The order then goes on the cart for pickup by the carrier.  I have no say on when the carrier picks up from me and it happens that my USPS guy picks up around nooon.  If your order comes in at 11:30, it may or may not go out same day.  We do not load up the truck and drive into town to the post office to deliver packages.  My UPS guy comes around 5:30 so there is a lot more time to get all orders out.  

Remember, most of the IAP vendors are very small companies and many are working EXTRA long hours to keep you happy.  How fast something is actually packed and label printed has to do with the volume of orders they handle each day.  I don't do nearly the volume that most of the others do so I can pull and pack orders within 5-10 minutes of receiving them.  Some of the popular vendors here who sell general pen making stuff may do a ton of order each day and may not have the manpower to get stuff out immediately.  Sure, they could hire more people (most don't have employees I would guess) but most IAP vendors are working on such small margins to begin with that it is just not feasible without raising prices.


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## The Penguin (Feb 13, 2015)

Warren White said:


> I am a buyer, not a vendor, so my observations are from that perspective.  I don't wish to offend anyone, just letting you know how it feels from my end.
> 
> My gripes (each has happened to me):
> If you don't have the quantity of product you advertise, and you have offered a discount for a quantity buy, that discount should apply to the 'rest' of my order when it comes in.  One vendor wouldn't (Jeers to them); another only corrected the price when I called them (half a Cheer to them).  I understand that some folks order a LOT of items, I don't.*  Also, I shouldn't have to pay shipping twice when you don't have the total order in stock.  I did (Jeers).*
> ...


If they ship you 2 packages - you should pay for 2 shipments...or WAIT for out-of-stock items to come so they can ship in one package.

who cares how far you drive to go get something? If I was that store, I would tell you the same thing. If you didn't call ahead - why should the store have to pay for shipping it to you? 

If you did call ahead and they confirmed stock, you made the drive - then in the meantime - they sold it to someone else - then asking them to pay shipping would be a reasonable request.


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## edicehouse (Feb 13, 2015)

So is the extra you pay is it for the vender or UPS?


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## Smitty37 (Feb 13, 2015)

magpens said:


> With all due respect .... when a vendor offers priority shipping I think they are making a commitment with the buyer to expedite the picking and packing and to get the shipment out their door in priority time.



Yes I agree, when I ship (regardless of method) the package is in USPS hands the same or the next business day....how quick it gets to the customer is a variable.  But, usually the postage label says  whether priority mail is 2 day or 3 day (which depends on distance from shipper to receiver.


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## Curly (Feb 13, 2015)

*Safety first.*

A tip for the bulk of the posters here. Get good fitting goggles, so when you are thrashing about on the shop floor screaming. :crying: "I WANT IT NOW!!! :curse: I WANT IT NOW!!!" :angry: You won't get any pen shavings in your eyes. They really hurt. :doctor:


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## Smitty37 (Feb 13, 2015)

jewellmd said:


> I'm sure for a lot of us who make a product (and continue to make the same product over and over)... Depending on the particular item, we may purchase a single kit, or a small handful of such kit.  Upon selling finished products - we may turn around and buy twice as many.  Keep doing that over and over, you'd find yourself reasonably stocked with kits.
> 
> Similarly with sites who sell supplies, kits, etc. if they have an inventory and sell them, they could use some of their profits to purchase more than before.  Unlike food, these products do not spoil.  If they found that a particular style started to not sell well, they could have a fire sale and burn thru their inventory and not expect to carry that product again (similar to brick & mortar stores do).
> 
> ...


 You are right and the vendor can wind up with $45,000 worth of inventory in a $60,000 per year business and get killed on taxes....I am a really small vendor and you would be amazed at how much inventory I have.


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## Smitty37 (Feb 13, 2015)

MesquiteMan said:


> magpens said:
> 
> 
> > With all due respect .... when a vendor offers priority shipping I think they are making a commitment with the buyer to expedite the picking and packing and to get the shipment out their door in priority time.
> ...


There is also this thing that happens occasionally.  The vendor schedules a carrier pickup with USPS, gets tha packages all packed, postage labels applied and at the pickup location well in advance of when the carrier usually comes around.  And - no carrier shows to make the pickup.  I had that happen today, scheduled the pickup yesterday for today, got an email from USPS confirming the pickup and giving me a confirmation number....but no carrier showed up.  This is the second time this month that has happened, they have a substitute carrier who doesn't know the route well enough and skips the pickups....nothing I can do.


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## Brian G (Feb 13, 2015)

I didn't read every post in this thread in detail.  I just hope that vendors don't reconsider whether they offer Bash discounts at  all, sponsor contests, donate drawing prizes, or offer other specials.  That would suck.


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## Dan Masshardt (Feb 13, 2015)

Brian G said:


> I didn't read every post in this thread in detail.  I just hope that vendors don't reconsider whether they offer Bash discounts at  all, sponsor contests, donate drawing prizes, or offer other specials.  That would suck.



Well, one particular discount won't happen again, according to another thread.


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## Brian G (Feb 13, 2015)

Hadn't made it down that far when I posted.  I go in order when I read the forums and sub-forums.  I'm odd like that.


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## NittanyLion (Feb 13, 2015)

We've become such a society of entitlement and more often than not, expect everything now and blame others when things go wrong.  

This post started 12 days into the bash.  If I wanted a stainless pen kit, a Jonathan Brooks Blank, a 5 gallon jug of Cactus Juice,
or whatever it is from whatever vendor is offering these deals to all of us, I would have ordered it day 1.  On day 12 if it wasn't available, I would only blame myself for waiting too long.

About shipping.....we're all familiar with the big vendor out there and their history of turtle speed "handling".  It should never be a surprise for anyone on this thread that they are slow 90% of the time.  When I need to order from them I have no expectations for it to be fast.....occasionally it happens, but usually not.  This company does many things well.....but anyone expecting super fast anything from them only has themselves to blame when you are waiting at the mailbox.

In an age of technology like it is, sometimes it's beneficial to stop and check ourselves and realize just how good we have it compared to many.  Don't loose sleep over something like this....it's not healthy or beneficial to yourself or others.

Personally, I just suffered through a Keneau Reeves movie, gave up 2 hours of my life, and $1.50 at Redbox.  I hate every movie he ever made, but for some reason I did it again......stupid me.


Cheers!


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## edicehouse (Feb 14, 2015)

I remember as a kid collecting UPC's off the back of my Star Wars action figures to be able to get The Emperor and it only took 6 to 8 weeks delivery...


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## edicehouse (Feb 14, 2015)

PS Talk about a thread taking life of it's own.


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## KenV (Feb 14, 2015)

I generally chuckle at the shipping times.   When you live near the end of the world and have things get stuck in the Kent Washington sorting facility for many days, you get used to priority shipping taking how ever long it takes because the alternative is REALLY expensive.   (I am in Alaska)

Then once in a while something does come fast -- just to keep us off balance.


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## wyone (Feb 14, 2015)

I remember the FIRST time we had overnight shipping.. (yes I AM old)  We were a small electrical contractor and had a breakdown on a sensitive piece of equipment at a manufacturing plant.  We ordered it at like 3 PM Mountain time, and it had to be shipped from the East coast.  We were like AMAZED when we had it at 9 AM the next day.


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## Willee (Feb 14, 2015)

magpens said:


> With all due respect .... when a vendor offers priority shipping I think they are making a commitment with the buyer to expedite the picking and packing and to get the shipment out their door in priority time.



First we need to define PRIORITY SHIPPING.
Priority as opposed to what?
Are they talking about the USPS priority mail service or just their version of priority handling at their business.

Business people today use weasel words that have vague meanings that can be easily re-defined as needed and wrongly assumed by someone else.
I think that is taught in business school ... how to confuse and befuddle your customers to extract max money.

Willee


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## ed4copies (Feb 14, 2015)

As you discuss "priority" mail, please recall that is the SECOND fastest way to use the USMail.  "Express" is the fastest choice for USPS and "overnight" is available with FedEx and UPS.  

From time to time I get phone calls from people who believe they NEED it, next day.  When they find out "Overnight" is close to $100, VERY FEW (under 10 in 5 years) elect to pay this (we get nothing extra for driving the package to UPS or FedEx).  

So, yes "Priority" is the THIRD fastest way to get your goods.  

Similar to asking for a "small" drink.  That would be "Large"--much smaller than Grande or "BIG gulp".

When you get a special order and you don't have the parts you will need, quote a 30 day delivery!!  "Custom made" products have a greater value if they require time to make.  Quoting "instant delivery" to your customers cheapens the effort of making the item.  

Often, your customers will perceive fast delivery as "easily made"===why put yourself in that position???

FWIW,
Ed
15 years of selling pens at shows--"custom" means 30 days, with 50% paid in advance and not refundable.  And I had the components in stock, in my shop.


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## jewellmd (Feb 14, 2015)

I’ve been working in Retail for over 20 years (its brick & mortar only) and I understand what it takes to move product from warehouses to store shelves.  When items are on sale and are out of stock, Rain Checks for a reasonable quantity of such item are available to the customer.  There are exceptions to this, but are typically few & far.  I think the Rain Check program helps to retain the customer.  If we were to continue to be out of stock when the customer returns with their Rain Check, that’s a problem.  What happens if we suddenly stopped carrying said item and left the customer hanging?

I also remember the days not long ago where I would save my Kool Aid points and send them in for special prizes.  It seemed like weeks to receive these things.  Ordering things were from a catalog, payment by money order or check and receiving your item took an eternity.  Who would know if your package went out a day or two later?

Today’s world is much different.  Get it now mentality – internet near instant speeds, news in minutes from around the world and packages flying all around the world.  Businesses need to work especially hard with their bottom lines while keeping their customers happy.

In today’s era, service is key.  Consumers are looking for good product, as soon as reasonably possible.  Businesses are looking for customer retention and growth.  I’ll pay a little extra if I get better service (grocery stores come to mind).  “Falling prices” don’t get me in the door if I already know that the service I’m about to receive is sub-par.

Just my perspective of how I've watched retail evolve.


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## Smitty37 (Feb 14, 2015)

Willee said:


> magpens said:
> 
> 
> > With all due respect .... when a vendor offers priority shipping I think they are making a commitment with the buyer to expedite the picking and packing and to get the shipment out their door in priority time.
> ...


I have a tendency to believe that most of the vendors here got their training in the "School of Hard Knocks" rather than a business school. My personal version of Priority Handling is every package that I ship.  Yesterday USPS had a glitch at their website and no pickups were made so my customers had an extra day added to their shipping but other than things like that our normal service is priority.


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## notaryjon (Feb 14, 2015)

A lot of the USPS computer is down. Has been since Thursday afternoon. They are working to get it back up soon. There scanning system is down in some parts of the US.


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## Smitty37 (Feb 14, 2015)

notaryjon said:


> A lot of the USPS computer is down. Has been since Thursday afternoon. They are working to get it back up soon. There scanning system is down in some parts of the US.


I got an email that the scheduling computer is back on line....it did issue a pickup for today but missed yesterday.


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## MesquiteMan (Feb 14, 2015)

Smitty37 said:


> notaryjon said:
> 
> 
> > A lot of the USPS computer is down. Has been since Thursday afternoon. They are working to get it back up soon. There scanning system is down in some parts of the US.
> ...



I have something going out every day with USPS.  I go online and schedule a daily pickup every day of the week for one year in advance.  That way I don't forget to schedule one.  This also helps the carrier to get in the habit of coming to my shop each day instead of just the mailbox.  My shop and house is down a 1,500 driveway and now my they even deliver my mail directly to the shop instead of the mailbox!


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## rgullion (Feb 14, 2015)

*My Two Cents*

First of all, let me note that i do not respond to these threads very often, something very close to never.  But this one hit me.
Next, let me give you my punch line first before i go off crazy - like some others have noted, use Smitty's.  And i would add, use Beartooth Woods.  I will tell you why below.
This postage stuff just drives me nuts.  Even I know you can get free boxes from USPS and you can ship a small box using priority mail for about $5.25.  So why is that some sellers need to charge me more?  Is it because they have to pay someone to pack the box, or walk it out to the mail box, or even drive 2 miles to the post office with it?  Just tell me, ok?
I would rather they charge the right amount for their product and charge me what it actually takes to pay for the shipping.
And because i am so crazy about this, I do pay attention to what these guys end up charging me for postage.  And i know i am not a huge customer, but still a customer that has sent the seller my hard earned money.

Now, for Smitty.  I swear he ends up charging me what he pays the post office  to send my stuff.  What a concept!!
And Beartooth Woods too.  My best tale is when i placed an order with Beartooth recently - late on Thursday.  Well, he shipped my pen kits on Friday - AND he paid for and i got overnight delivery.  That's right, when i went to the mail box on Saturday, two days after i placed my order, there it was.  I was very happy.  And i only paid for standard shipping.  With great service like that and the kind that Smitty's provides, that is where my money goes, first.

Everyone have a great weekend.


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## Smitty37 (Feb 15, 2015)

rgullion said:


> First of all, let me note that i do not respond to these threads very often, something very close to never.  But this one hit me.
> Next, let me give you my punch line first before i go off crazy - like some others have noted, use Smitty's.  And i would add, use Beartooth Woods.  I will tell you why below.
> This postage stuff just drives me nuts.  Even I know you can get free boxes from USPS and you can ship a small box using priority mail for about $5.25.  So why is that some sellers need to charge me more?  Is it because they have to pay someone to pack the box, or walk it out to the mail box, or even drive 2 miles to the post office with it?  Just tell me, ok?
> I would rather they charge the right amount for their product and charge me what it actually takes to pay for the shipping.
> ...


Thanks for the kind words, but I generally charge flat rate shipping.

Here is the thing with shipping. $5.25 is the cost of postage for a SFRB.  

That is not the actual cost of shipping - the postage lable cost .07 amortizing the postage printer is another .04  access to the service for printing postage is about  .40+. 

The packing slip/invoice is .02 for paper and the cost of printing it is about .05 

I self insure (packages over $50.00 and don't charge anything for that but there is a cost related to it 

Packaging materials such as tape are not free.  

Then if the vendor made a mistake in packing the kits and left out a part or if there is a bad part in the kit that has to be replaced there is an additional postage charge to us but not the buyer.

Then there are the shipments that won't fit in a SFRB and we have to go to a bigger box...there is really no way our order system can determine that because different kits require different volume - so the additional shipping (which can easily double the postage cost) we have to eat.

Then there are specials we run with free shipping.

Most of us charge flat rate shipping and hope we don't wind up too far in the hole at the end of the year...shipping is certainly not a profit center for me and I doubt that it is for any of the other vendors here either.


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## jimm1 (Feb 15, 2015)

_*2/14/15: Still waiting for my 2-day delivery*_



*Product & Tracking Information*

*Postal Product:*

Priority Mail 2-Day<sup>™</sup>
*Features:*


USPS Tracking<sup>™</sup>

                                                                                                        Up to $100 insurance included                                                                                                             Restrictions Apply Priority Mail Insurance info icon

<!-- 




 -->                                 
<table class="zebra-table" id="tc-hits" summary="Table describes the label details returned from track query."><thead><tr class="header"><th class="date-time" style="width: 33%;" scope="col">Date & Time




</th><th class="status" style="width: 33%;" scope="col">Status of Item




</th><th class="location" style="width: 33%;" scope="col">Location




</th></tr></thead><tbody class="details"><tr class="detail-wrapper latest-detail"><td class="date-time">                                                        February 11, 2015                                                        ,                                                        10:45 am                                                     




</td><td class="status"><!--  
 -->                                                                                                     Departed USPS Facility                                                 
<input id="LabelSummaryDetails9405515901284905821950" type="hidden" value="Your item departed our USPS facility in MEMPHIS, TN 38136 on February 11, 2015 at 10:45 am. The item is currently in transit to the destination.">                                                     




</td><td class="location">                                                        MEMPHIS, TN 38136                                                      




</td></tr><!-- New Status Summary Panel -->                                             <tr class="status-summary-panel open-panel"><td style="padding: 0px;" colSpan="3"><table><tbody><tr class="bubble-arrow"><td class="bubble-top" colSpan="3"></td></tr><tr class="detail-summary"><td>Your item departed our USPS facility in MEMPHIS, TN 38136 on February 11, 2015 at 10:45 am. The item is currently in transit to the destination.





</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr><tr class="detail-wrapper odd-row"><td class="date-time">                                                            February 11, 2015                                                            ,                                                            10:31 am                                                         




</td><td class="status"> Arrived at USPS Facility                                                          




</td><td class="location">                                                            MEMPHIS, TN 38136                                                          




</td></tr><tr class="detail-wrapper "><td class="date-time">                                                            February 9, 2015                                                            ,                                                            10:02 pm                                                         




</td><td class="status"> Arrived at USPS Origin Facility                                                          




</td><td class="location">                                                            PHILADELPHIA, PA 19116                                                          




</td></tr><tr class="detail-wrapper odd-row"><td class="date-time">                                                            February 9, 2015                                                            ,                                                            8:47 pm                                                         




</td><td class="status"> Accepted at USPS Origin Sort Facility                                                          




</td><td class="location">                                                            PHILADELPHIA, PA 19115                                                          




</td></tr><tr class="detail-wrapper "><td class="date-time">                                                           * February 9, 2015                                                            ,                                                            7:14 pm                                                         *




</td><td class="status">* Picked up by Request                                                          *




</td><td class="location">*                                                            PHILADELPHIA, PA 19176                                                          *




</td></tr><tr class="detail-wrapper odd-row"><td class="date-time">*                                                            February 9, 2015                                                            ,                                                            2:41 pm* 




</td><td class="status"> Shipping Label Created                                                          




</td><td class="location">PHILADELPHIA, PA 19115 




</td></tr></tbody></table>


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## MesquiteMan (Feb 15, 2015)

Smitty, you forgot Paypal/Credit Card fees which add another 3%  or $.1522 more or less for that small flat rate box.  So, the cost of that $5.25 SFR box before you even put anything in it and tape it up is $5.40 right off the bat.  If a vendor is only charging $5.25, they are loosing money on shipping.  I don't believe in profiting on shipping and I figure my shipping materials and extras into the cost but I do add for the Paypal/Credit Card fees.  Then again, I have Commercial Plus pricing with USPS which is even better than the regular Commercial Base pricing so most of the time, the price I charge with the Paypal/Credit Card fees added is still cheaper than most folks can get online.


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## Cmiles1985 (Feb 15, 2015)

I have no problem in paying $6.50-7.00 for my stuff to show up in a SFRB. By the time everything is nicely packed in, taped up, label created, package shipped, I don't really care if the vendor makes an extra nickel or even quarter off of shipping. I doubt they're going to be living any better than I am by charging a fair amount more than the actual label purchase price. If the kits go up $0.05, everyone would throw a tizzy. With some folks it seems there is no winning!!

P.S. I followed this thread from the beginning, and see a few angry folk, but no reply from the OP. So, to that, congrats on a pot well stirred.


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## Smitty37 (Feb 15, 2015)

MesquiteMan said:


> Smitty, you forgot Paypal/Credit Card fees which add another 3%  or $.1522 more or less for that small flat rate box.  So, the cost of that $5.25 SFR box before you even put anything in it and tape it up is $5.40 right off the bat.  If a vendor is only charging $5.25, they are loosing money on shipping.  I don't believe in profiting on shipping and I figure my shipping materials and extras into the cost but I do add for the Paypal/Credit Card fees.  Then again, I have Commercial Plus pricing with USPS which is even better than the regular Commercial Base pricing so most of the time, the price I charge with the Paypal/Credit Card fees added is still cheaper than most folks can get online.


That's true and there is also the charge for processing credit cards through PayPal - generally I lump these two together and have that figured into my selling price...but certainly part of it is shipping.  Other than the cost of inventory, shipping is the largest single expense in my business and actually exceeds the profit I make on nearly every transaction.


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## RKB (Feb 15, 2015)

"there ain't no such thing as a free lunch".....product selection, pricing,shipping accuracy are the items that influence my buying decisions, and candy especially the candy.  Seriously though: stop beating up our Vendors, we need them just like they need us, in fact we need more vendors... it's capitalism...it's good.  If you gotta beef send them a note, call, they will work it out or if you can't get satisfaction buy somewhere else.
Stuff happens.

Thanks to all our vendors who provide so many great products that help us create our treasures and your support of our IAP.

Rod


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## ChrisD123 (Feb 15, 2015)

Are you serious… The vendor has the heart to LOSE money in order to give us a discount for the support we have shown them over the years and you have the audacity to complain that they are out of stock on items, I cannot believe how disrespectful you are being OP


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