# These are about as good as I can do at this time



## DCBluesman (Nov 24, 2005)

what with my inferior tools...Ryobi bandsaw and drill press, Harbor Freight gouge and skew and the original, imperfect bushings.  



> you cannot make a quality product with inferior materials



Kauri







Bog Oak






Thank you for looking.  Feel free to comment on either or both.


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## LanceD (Nov 24, 2005)

Beautiful! What more can I say?


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## wdcav1952 (Nov 24, 2005)

Lou,

I think it is more the craftsman than the tools.  The pens you show illustrate that point clearly.  Beautiful work.


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## rtjw (Nov 24, 2005)

Looks like it worked well enough to make those. Great job.


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## Ron Mc (Nov 24, 2005)

Lou,
They look darn good to me! I'm not sure where the quote came from but my garage / shop must be full of inferior materials as well and I'm darn proud of it! Those pens look just as good as any pen made by someone who happens to have thousands of dollars worth of toys in their shops. I'll tell you what I'll go try to find a beaver to turn with to see what I can make. It will be darn economical unless some animal rights group shows up.[]
Anyone have a beaver I can buy?[]


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## darbytee (Nov 24, 2005)

Those are both really beautiful Lou. I especially like the look of the bog oak. I don't get the part about inferior tools, but whatever. They look like they worked to me.


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## wayneis (Nov 24, 2005)

Hot Diggity Damn Lou, those are real pretty.  You also just helped me make my mind up on a little quandry.  I've got a set of Kauri barrels all made up, just need to do my final sanding of the Enduro and I've been trying to deside weather to use the Emperor kit or a Gent.  Emperor it is, thank you.

Wayne


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## Deere41h (Nov 24, 2005)

WOW Lou those are really nice.  Guess you guys are going to get me to try some of those yet.  They are starting to grow on me.  Nice job with those inferior tools and all.


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## jbyrd24 (Nov 24, 2005)

Beautiful pen Lou[]
Sounds like we shop for tools at the same places.[]
Finishing up a Churchill with the Bois de Rose.


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## woodpens (Nov 24, 2005)

Nice looking pens, Lou! That is a sharp looking pen style. I guess I need to add it to my offering. They sure aren't cheap! []


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## BigRob777 (Nov 25, 2005)

Lou,
Well, if that's the best you can do, I can give you some pointers[][][]

I did learn from a master.  Anyway, these are superb.  I want to try that kit, after I run through most of my cigars and sierras.  The five pens I (and Claudia) still have, were a big hit at Thanksgiving.  I am getting faster, but I still need to read that 7 page, or so, tutorial you gave me when we first e-mailed, on finishing.  I should just come down for a visit, to see how you do it, but more in a later e-mail.  I only have one minute of Thanksgiving left (in our time zone)

  BTW, I don't believe that quote.  I'll bet <b>You</b> could turn a piece of cow dung into a beautiful pen.  Now don't get any ideas....

Keep up the awesome work,
Rob


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## angboy (Nov 25, 2005)

You must have nice inferior materials and tools, and must know how to use them in a way to maximize their inferiority! Isn't it odd that many of us may aspire to make such inferior things in our "shop"[]? BTW, that all means that I like them a lot- especially the bog oak, with which you don't usually see someone being able to make such a large pen out of the available blanks of bog oak. Nice job of showing that, while size may not matter[], some people do apparently have more size (of bog oak...) to offer!


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## airrat (Nov 25, 2005)

That kit is going to be a hit.

Pens look great.


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## alamocdc (Nov 25, 2005)

I think you're just mad 'cause my Ryobi DP drills straighter than yours, I can change the speeds on my Harbor Freight BS and my Windsor Design lathe chisels hold an edge longer. [}][] 

Actually, that's nice looking work, Lou! I really like the grain definition in that Bog Oak! That's more than I've ever seen in this stuff. []


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## ldimick (Nov 25, 2005)

Very nice, Lou! It is easier to make good pens with good tools. But good tools alone will not make a good pen - it takes a good turner.


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## ctEaglesc (Nov 25, 2005)

You said:
_"These are about as good as I can do at this time"  _




With a little paractice. the results will improve[]


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## nlp1090 (Nov 25, 2005)

DCBluesman,

Good morning,  Beautiful looking pens.  I would like to buy the Bog Oak Emperor pen.  How can I buy it from you, if it is for sale.

Thanks
Neal


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## wdcav1952 (Nov 25, 2005)

Lou,

I just checked Neal's albumn.  The bog oak would be in good company.


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## Mudder (Nov 25, 2005)

Gee Lou,

I was beginning to think I was the only one. Truth be told, I have quite a few Crown,Sorby, and P & N lathe tools but I find myself going to an old Buck Brothers carbon steel skew to make my pens. Why is a Harbor Freight tool inferior?

I think your pens are fantastic! "inferior" materials or not. It matters not what the tool is made of or how much it cost. What matters is wether or not it is sharp and how much skill the person using it has.


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## Dario (Nov 25, 2005)

Those really looked great!!!

Inferior tools can be used by great craftsmen and produce great results...but with less  skilled people...it could be very frustrating.

Another classic example of..."It is the Indian, not the arrows" thing. []


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## Texas Taco (Nov 25, 2005)

> _Originally posted by BigRob777_
> <br />Lou,
> Well, if that's the best you can do, I can give you some pointers[][][]
> 
> ...



Rob, You might not have given Lou any ideas but you got me to thinking.....   [^]

Lou........Nice Work!  Show us some more.


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## Rifleman1776 (Nov 25, 2005)

Lou, your right. They're a mess. Send to me immediately. I'll relieve you of the embarrasment of owning them. []


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## pastorbill1952 (Nov 25, 2005)

The time looks right to me.


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## Doghouse (Nov 25, 2005)

Gee lou, can you plant the toung in cheek a little further?  LOL.  Great looking pens.


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## swm6500 (Nov 25, 2005)

Great looking pens Lou, especially having to deal with the inferior tools and all.


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## DCBluesman (Nov 26, 2005)

Thanks to each of you who have viewed these and especially to those of you who have added words of encouragement.  Your comments mean a lot.

The quote is a bit "tongue-in-cheek" as I could use a couple of my more expensive gouges or skews and I could have used the new bushings...actually, the two were turned with different sets but the result is remarkably the same.

A few words of acknowledgement are needed here.  Paul Huffman's (Paul in OKC) Sidevise was critical in getting the full size pens out of the blanks I had.  I still say I'll trade in my Jet before I'll trade my vise.  William Cavanaugh sent me the Ancient Kauri as a gift.  I hope you feel like I did ok with it, William.  Many of the rest of you good folks on the forums have added and continue to add to my knowledge of turning and finishing, particularly Russ Fairfield.  I would know almost nothing about finishing were it not for his advice.

Neal, thank you for your inquiry.  Then pen is for sale and I have sent you an email as a follow-up.

These kits are beautiful.  CS USA has done an excellent job with design and in giving us an excellent high-end kit.  The price is a bit intimidating, but they have given us the ability to step up a little higher onto the playing field with the major manufacturers.

Thanks, again, to everyone who continues to inspire my to improve my craft.  I wish each of you the same level of support from this marvelous group.


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## nlp1090 (Nov 26, 2005)

Lou,

How do I communicate with you?  I got your email but no reply email address.

Neal


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## knottyharry (Nov 26, 2005)

Damn inferior tools anyhow.
But the pens turned out beautiful.
Fantastic work as always.
Harry


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## DCBluesman (Nov 26, 2005)

Neal--address sent.  Harry--Thank you for the kind words!


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## Jcraigg (Nov 26, 2005)

Both pens are First Class, Look Great


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## Spike (Nov 26, 2005)

I think both pens look great. I also am in the same boat as you with tools. All of my tools are el cheapo turning tools and most of my power tools, but I agree with some of these other people, it is not the tools that makes the masterpices but a craftsman that can master them.
Most of my pens seem to turn out pretty darn good though.


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## Randy_ (Nov 27, 2005)

> _Originally posted by DCBluesman_<br />....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think some folks are getting slightly off course??  The quote clearly talks about materials, "NOT" tools??


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## wdcav1952 (Nov 27, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Randy__
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...



Sorry Randy, but I disagree with the word "clearly."  Read in context the original quotes rambles freely between materials and tools, blurring the distinction between the two.  The main part of that discussion seemed to be bushings and "cheap Chinese wrenches."  In that case, I feel that the thread is on target.  Interesting that in two full pages of discussion you are the only poster to declare the original post inaccurate.


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## Randy_ (Nov 27, 2005)

> _Originally posted by wdcav1952_
> <br />Sorry Randy, but I disagree with the word "clearly."  Read in context the original quotes rambles freely between materials and tools, blurring the distinction between the two.  The main part of that discussion seemed to be bushings and "cheap Chinese wrenches."  In that case, I feel that the thread is on target.  Interesting that in two full pages of discussion you are the only poster to declare the original post inaccurate.



William:  You are, of course, entitled to your opinion; but you really do need to read these comments more carefully!!  Nowhere did I say that the original post was inaccurate!!  I only stated that Lou's quote mentioned only a relationship between quality and materials.  There was "NO" mention of tools in the quote and that point is eminently clear even if others chose not to comment on it!!!


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## wdcav1952 (Nov 27, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Randy__
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...





> you cannot make a quality product with inferior materials. Including tools, the issue of undersized bushings is comparable to cheap chinese wrenches. try to loosen a tight nut or bolt with one of them. then try it with a craftsman, sk, or even a snap on wrench. you decide if there is a difference. the same is true about a bushing that will not fit properly.
> 
> 
> > You know what Tealman, when you are right you are right.  I bow to your infinite teal colored wisdom.


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## csb333 (Nov 27, 2005)

They both look great! I especially like the kauri.


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## LAKingsFan (Nov 28, 2005)

Great looking pens! By the way...It's not the wand that's special, but the wizard that works it!

Ron


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## ed4copies (Nov 28, 2005)

Can't wait to see what you can do TOMORROW!!!

Nice pens, Lou.  Especially like the bog oak. Looks good with those fittings!!


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## gerryr (Nov 29, 2005)

There was a story that circulated among F1 racing fans back in the 60's about one of the F1 drivers who ran a racing school at Nurburgring in Germany.  On the first day of each class he arrived in a VW bug.  He would then pick the most arrogant of his new students and send them out to do a lap as fast as they could in their hot car.  He would then go out in his beetle and beat the crap out of their time.

I think these pens are very similar.  The tools might not be the best, the materials may not be the best, but if you know what to do with both, you produce a classy product.  You certainly did that.


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## DCBluesman (Nov 30, 2005)

Thanks again for the kind words.  The supportive comments from each of you and the views of those who don't comment are highly satisfying and encourage me to go back to the shop to justify your words. [8D]


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## Gary Max (Nov 30, 2005)

The funny is while some folks make noise others make and SELL pens-----it's really funny if you think about it.


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## dubdrvrkev (Nov 30, 2005)

Good stuff Lou. I don't think most of us are tool snobs, so it doesn't matter if you used a sharpened screw driver and a rasp to make them, good craftsmanship is just that! 
I still use my HF set quite a bit. Works fine for the most part, and I'm not ruining an $80 gouge on the grinder.


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## Daniel (Nov 30, 2005)

For everyone that has decided I am a "Tool Snob".
Every pen I have ever made, and Sold. has been on a harbor freight lathe, drilled with a Post Tool Drill press and until recently cut with a craftsman band saw. my drill bits are from harbor freight. and all but one of my turning tools are cheapies from Post tool. for those that don't know Post tool was the freight outlet tool store before Harbor Freight.
My post said you cannot make a quality product with inferior materials, including tools. It has been interesting to just how many and for how long, others would ride the assumption that I thought "Cheap tools" are inferior tools.
the quote in context of the conversation was intended to point out that I expect better preformance from higher priced tools. Bushings in my opinion are extravegantly priced and I expect extravegant quality and performance. 
Your free to twist it any way you wish. there are always those that will just follow.
Ever try to ride a pack horse for pleasure. you can't get them to go anywhere. they don't know what to do when they don't have a horses butt in front of them to follow.
the original question was just what should we expect for our money when it comes to quality of bushings.
I also compaired the cost of bushings to other small precision machined parts that can be found.
one being alignment pins which are made to ten thousandths of an inch in accuracy. at McMaster Carr they can be purchased in steel for
$10.23 per Pack of 50, these are 1/4 dia. 1-1/2 inch long pins. this is slightly more than 20 cents per piece.
I also mentioned that bushings are priced about the same as a low grade bearing. at Mcmaster Carr they have bearings priced as low as $5.22
Far more comparable to the bushings we use, are the Sleeve Bearings with a 1/4 inch i.d. they are 92 cents each made out of bronze. bronze by the way is a much more expensive material than steel.
now non of the above would make a replacment for pen bushings. but it does show what like priceing is when you get out of the circle of pen kit suppliers. I would compare the quality of a bushing to that of a standard nut from home depot as far as tolerances in machining and material are concerned. they can be bought for a few cents.$3.07 per pack of 100.


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## wayneis (Nov 30, 2005)

Hmmm, I thought that I had read all the posts but I must be mistaken because I don't remember seeing Daniels name refered to anywhere.  Your little joke at the end may have been funny if you had spelled your punch line correctly.  

Wayne


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## Daniel (Nov 30, 2005)

It's my quote that's getting pasted all over this thread.


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## dubdrvrkev (Nov 30, 2005)

Daniel I hope you don't think my post was directed at you. I never saw the post that was quoted in the start of the thread. I was using the term "tool snob" in a general sense, no way directed at anyone particular. Just for the record, I said that most of us _aren't_ tool snobs. 
I'm sorry if you thought that was directed at you.


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## Daniel (Nov 30, 2005)

Kevin,
and everyone else. I do not take most of the comments as directed at me. In fact it was fairly apparent to me that most of those that replied to this thread had no idea what quote was involved. Until this page linked it directly to my comment.
I feel I have been miss quoted for personal reasons. other than one jab at that person. my post is intended to correct the thinking that I said cheap tools are inferior. a 92 cent alignment pen is far cheaper than pen bushings and is far higher quality.
i apologize for the jab as it was uncalled for and could be taken as an insult to everyone that has posted to this thread. not my intention.


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## wayneis (Nov 30, 2005)

Daniel I see that you ran spell check.  Nice going.  

As far as bushings go, yes it would be nice to always get perfect tolerances and low cost BUT there is a huge difference that you are ignoring.  Where as the Companies that make nuts and the parts that you mention make and sell millions the kit suppliers sell a few thousand, if they are lucky.  That makes a big difference.  I also imagine that it would be nice to test every bushing and kit that comes in the door but I can also see where time and money and the fact the we the turners are always yelling to hurry up and get us the stuff must make it very difficult for them.  In the past I have bought from all three Companies that make and sell pen kits and every one has at one time or another had a problem that I have encountered, in every case where I have found a problem that Company has made good at no cost to me.  I've had both CSUSA and Berea send me new bushings and I've had PSI send me new tubes but the point is they take steps to get what we want, get to us as fast as they can and if there is a problem they so far have fixed it as fast as possible.  

I'm done, it was not my intention to hyjack Lou's thread so thats the last word from me.

Wayne


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## Paul in OKC (Nov 30, 2005)

> _Originally posted by dubdrvrkev_
> <br />Good stuff Lou. I don't think most of us are tool snobs, so it doesn't matter if you used a sharpened screw driver and a rasp to make them, good craftsmanship is just that!



I agree here. My first bunch of pens were turned on an 8" Delta drill press!! I made a thing to hold the end of the mandrel and attached it to the table, layed the thing on its side and used a piece of angle iron clamped to the table for a tool rest. First tool was a file ground to sort of a one sided skew[]


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## Randy_ (Nov 30, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Hemibee_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...


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## Mikey (Nov 30, 2005)

Geez, all this conversation over two crappy looking pens.


J/K[][] They look really nice and I can't wait to make the two that I am getting. Regarding the quote thing, One can make a decent product out of inferior tools, but it is 200% harder and the likelyhood for mistakes is 200% higher. Also, as said, cheap isn't a good measure when it comes to quality. HF has it's bombs and golden eggs. (my HF drill bits keep walking in one of the sizes I need/use[!] ) WTH is this arguement happening anyway?

BTW, anyone know who may sell individual blanks of the "Ancient Wood"? I know you can buy a $50 pack, but it may be a bit more than I need.


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## DCBluesman (Nov 30, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Mikey_
> <br />WTF is this arguement happening anyway?


Well, Mikey, someone has to provoke folks once in awhile in order to make sure that no one has lapsed, unnoticed, into a coma.  I figured it might as well be me. [8D]


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## wayneis (Nov 30, 2005)

Mikey any idiot can figure out what the initials that you are and how you mean them and I for one DO NOT apprieciate your language.  We have kids that frequent our site and also a Pastor and I doubt that they like it either, I also believe that it is against one of the few rules that we have.

Wayne


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## fritzmccorkle (Nov 30, 2005)

gee Lou.  i wish i'd known you needed better tools.  i'd have gotten you some sorby for your birthday.  oh well....i guess next year.


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## alamocdc (Dec 1, 2005)

Fritz, it's not nice to tease Lou like that. []


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## angboy (Dec 1, 2005)

> _Originally posted by fritzmccorkle_
> <br />gee Lou.  i wish i'd known you needed better tools.  i'd have gotten you some sorby for your birthday.  oh well....i guess next year.



Gosh Fritz, that would have been a nice b'day present, probably better than anything else he may have gotten around that time...
But since you missed his b'day, keep saving your money- for my next birthday!


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## Mikey (Dec 1, 2005)

You are right Wayne. I apologize and have changed the post. FWIW, the H stands for "Heck" now. 

Still wonder why nobody seems to be offended at the 3 pages of arguements that are going on because of quoting out of context and reading something between the lines that just isn't there.[?]


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## fritzmccorkle (Dec 1, 2005)

will do ang.  i think you already have some sorby so i may have to go oneway or supernova on you though.


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## penhead (Dec 1, 2005)

Did you say Oneway []

Ya know I just had a birthday but you could get a head start on the next one [][}]




> _Originally posted by fritzmccorkle_
> <br />will do ang.  i think you already have some sorby so i may have to go oneway or supernova on you though.


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## Mudder (Dec 1, 2005)

> _Originally posted by penhead_
> <br />Did you say Oneway []
> 
> Ya know I just had a birthday but you could get a head start on the next one [][}]
> ...



HEY!

Don't forget my birthday's in July!


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## wayneis (Dec 1, 2005)

Sorby, hmm that sounds like a good southern Bourbon.

Wayne



> _Originally posted by fritzmccorkle_
> <br />gee Lou.  i wish i'd known you needed better tools.  i'd have gotten you some sorby for your birthday.  oh well....i guess next year.


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## Spike (Dec 2, 2005)

gee wiz, you guys stop your bickering. Your like a bunch of old ladies. JK[].
the pens are the most important thing here. great job.


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## fritzmccorkle (Dec 2, 2005)

ok, i'll see how you guys do on my birthday and then maybe you'll make my sorby/oneway/nova list. hahaha[]


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## wdcav1952 (Dec 2, 2005)

Fritz, you may be lucky to get sorbet on your birthday! []


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## fritzmccorkle (Dec 2, 2005)

are you saying i havn't been good?  gee, i can get this treatment at home.  hahahah[]


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## angboy (Dec 2, 2005)

> _Originally posted by wdcav1952_
> <br />Fritz, you may be lucky to get sorbet on your birthday! []



Hey William, you're a poet- did ya know it? []

For everyone- if the tools/materials are being a handicap in any way, just think what stu"pen"dous pens Lou could make with all these nice tools that he should now be getting for his next birthday!


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## wdcav1952 (Dec 2, 2005)

Thanks Angela.  I was concentrating on spelling sorbet correctly and didn't even notice my iambic inclinations.
[8D]


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