# Vick signs with eagles



## OKLAHOMAN (Aug 13, 2009)

Shocked! Knew that he would sign with some team but never thought it would be a team like Philly.. Hope they go 0-16. Just my opinion as much as I have always rooted agianst Dallas I have a new worst team.


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## rlofton (Aug 13, 2009)

Whew!!!  Thank goodness Jerry didn't pick him up for *America's Team!!!*


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## Wheaties (Aug 13, 2009)

I too am a little surprised by it. I knew it would be a very well established team like the Patriots or Steelers. So the Eagles makes sense. Makes even more since because Cobb is injured and McNabb is always getting hurt. It's a very low risk, very high reward situation.

I still don't know why people are so agaist him. If you are up to date on the story I think you would sympothize with him and hopefully the change is real. It helps that he has Tony Dungee on his side. I have a TON of respect for him!

It will be interesting no doubt. You can't argue he's a game changer!


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## OKLAHOMAN (Aug 13, 2009)

Zack, lets just agree to disagree on this. BTW I'm up to date on the story and I also respect Dungee but don't have to agree with him.


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## IPD_Mrs (Aug 13, 2009)

Eagles make perfect sense.  Remember they are the ones that started with TO.
Maybe they should sign a few Bengals players, then again they would have to pay their bail.

All jokes aside.  What he did was wrong.  He did time (not enough) but he should be allowed to have a life after prison, just not for millions as a pro athlete that children can idolize.

I am really surprised that the NFL re-instated him.  I thought the new president was supposed to be hardcore.


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## bitshird (Aug 13, 2009)

I'd like to put him up against his own weight in my dogs and see how he likes getting chewed on. I've got 2 males and a female that together weigh about 260 Oh wait that would be cruel, (to the dogs) Nah ignorant fools like him are the reason I have them!


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## rjwolfe3 (Aug 13, 2009)

Don't forget that ex Browns player may soon be playing again. Of course people don't seem to be as angry with him as Vick. I mean after all he just killed a human being while drunk and then spent a month in jail. I mean Vick did much, much worse things then that.:biggrin::tongue:


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## Wheaties (Aug 13, 2009)

MLKWoodWorking said:


> Eagles make perfect sense.  Remember they are the ones that started with TO.
> Maybe they should sign a few Bengals players, then again they would have to pay their bail.
> 
> All jokes aside.  What he did was wrong.  He did time (not enough) but he should be allowed to have a life after prison, just not for millions as a pro athlete that children can idolize.
> ...




I think people are just jealous about the dollar amount. He broke the law and did the time. He has the right to make a living. How about you? Have you gone over the speed limit? Law breaker. Do you deserve to make what you do? That's different? Well you get the idea. And if your child idolizes him, you have some catching up to do as a parent. And he is on a very very very short lease. One screw up and he's going to be done for life. I'm sure he won't even be allowed to look at the fans wrong.

I know I'm on the short end of the stick on this one but oh well. I'm not even a fan of him, but you have to look at it with more prospective than "I like dogs, and I love my dogs, and anyone who does that doesn't deserve anything good, and his sentence wasn't long enough, and I love my dog."


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## Wheaties (Aug 13, 2009)

rjwolfe3 said:


> Don't forget that ex Browns player may soon be playing again. Of course people don't seem to be as angry with him as Vick. I mean after all he just killed a human being while drunk and then spent a month in jail. I mean Vick did much, much worse things then that.:biggrin::tongue:



Agreed. The difference is pre-meditation and the time it lasted. The accident was just that, as wrong and illegal as it was. That's the difference. But I agree. Dog.......Person......Dog.......Person?


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## mrcook4570 (Aug 13, 2009)

Wheaties said:


> I think people are just jealous about the dollar amount. He broke the law and did the time. He has the right to make a living.



Yes he did the time and yes he has a right to make a living.  Garbage men and burger flippers are in demand.

But a right to play in the NFL?????

If a teacher is convicted of a felony, the teacher loses their license.  Even after 'doing the time' they can not go back to teaching.

Their are many other instances where convicted felons may NOT work.  Sure they can still earn a living, just at some other job.


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## OKLAHOMAN (Aug 13, 2009)

I agree that a 30 day sentence was crazy but Vick's was permeated he just didn't got to a bar once and come home and accidentally started a dog fighting "business*"* and while drunk decided to electrocute, drown and kill some that didn't meet his "business" standards, and no I don't believe a dog life is worth more than a humans but Vick's intent was to do what he did and that's the difference that I see. I will not post on this again...... 



*[*quote=rjwolfe3;889280]Don't forget that ex Browns player may soon be playing again. Of course people don't seem to be as angry with him as Vick. I mean after all he just killed a human being while drunk and then spent a month in jail. I mean Vick did much, much worse things then that.:biggrin::tongue:[/quote]


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## Wheaties (Aug 13, 2009)

mrcook4570 said:


> Yes he did the time and yes he has a right to make a living.  Garbage men and burger flippers are in demand.
> 
> But a right to play in the NFL?????
> 
> ...




True, but teachers and the like are a dime a dozen and felons may have a harder time getting a job (and certain jobs not at all for good reason), but are not refused from every job. But how many people can run a 4.2 40 and make some of the best athletes in the world look silly? That's the difference. How rare are you skills. Sorry, but that's the facts. Again, I think people are just jealous. Myself included.


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## igran7 (Aug 14, 2009)

Wheaties said:


> True, but teachers and the like are a dime a dozen and felons may have a harder time getting a job (and certain jobs not at all for good reason), but are not refused from every job. But how many people can run a 4.2 40 and make some of the best athletes in the world look silly? That's the difference. How rare are you skills. Sorry, but that's the facts. Again, I think people are just jealous. Myself included.



I have my own opinion on whether or not Vick should play...but I will keep that to myself right now.  The above quote baffles me.  I'm not sure if it is meant as a provocative joke or a serious statement.  To be honest I am a little afraid to find out.  

I am a die hard football fan, have been for as long as I can remember.  But I think, i mean KNOW that they are way overpaid for what they do. As a society it appals me to think that we hold these athletes to such a high degree and pay them more in ONE year than most folks in this country will earn in a lifetime.  Maybe it is because as stated above we view teachers as "a dime a dozen"  Maybe if we viewed them with a little more respect and encouraged our children to excell in learning instead of running a 4.2 40 we wouldn't have incidents like this topic in the first place.  

BTW I am not jeleous, I am frustrated, disgusted and especially dissapointed.


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## Longfellow (Aug 14, 2009)

I had no doubts he would play in the NFL again. We have become a nation of Idol Worshipers. Most times the wrong idols but current events indicate maybe people are beginning to get tired of it.
If you oppose his hiring vote against it with your wallet or purse. Stop watching NFL games, send your thoughts to sponsors, don't attend games. The bottom line is a strong vote.


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## VisExp (Aug 14, 2009)

Wheaties said:


> True, but teachers and the like are a dime a dozen and felons may have a harder time getting a job (and certain jobs not at all for good reason), but are not refused from every job. But how many people can run a 4.2 40 and make some of the best athletes in the world look silly? That's the difference. How rare are you skills. Sorry, but that's the facts. Again, I think people are just jealous. Myself included.



Unfortunately that is part of the problem.  Regardless of what he is able to do while carrying a piece of leather, he, like teachers, has the ability to influence the moral compass of a generation of young people.   Yet he is put on the pedestal of celebrity worship while a teacher is regarded as dime a dozen.

I don't follow football and I have no problem with anyone earning their market value regardless of the field that they are in.  The only reason I commented on this thread is because of the dismay I feel at America's fascination with celebrities.  

Excessive wealth has a tendency to amplify a persons character and there are far to many examples of celebrities who fall short in this regard.


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## DocStram (Aug 14, 2009)

Wheaties said:


> . . . . teachers and the like are a dime a dozen . . .
> But how many people can run a 4.2 40 and make some of the best athletes in the world look silly?




" . . . teachers and the like are a dime a dozen . . . "    how insulting to America's educators.  

So a pro athlete can run a 4.2 40 . . .  my wife just stayed up until 2:30 this morning writing lesson plans . . . and she left for school at 6 this morning to face 21 first graders.     Let's see a pro athlete do that.


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## dalemcginnis (Aug 14, 2009)

Wheaties said:


> True, but teachers and the like are a dime a dozen and felons may have a harder time getting a job (and certain jobs not at all for good reason), but are not refused from every job. But how many people can run a 4.2 40 and make some of the best athletes in the world look silly? That's the difference. How rare are you skills. Sorry, but that's the facts. Again, I think people are just jealous. Myself included.




So, if OJ had done what he did, in is prime he would have been allowed to continue playing football?  After all,  he wasn't convicted criminally, only civilly.


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## jleiwig (Aug 14, 2009)

Guys we've been through this before.  The fact is that this is America and once people have paid their debt to society it is their right as an American to pursue whatever avenue of life they choose.  Some choose crime over and over again, while others choose other routes.  

The simple fact is that being a football player is a JOB just like being a garbage man or a teacher or whatever other profession that has been mentioned here.  

Michael Vick has just as much right as every other American has in trying to get paid for what his God given talents are.


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## alamocdc (Aug 14, 2009)

Wheaties said:


> True, but teachers and the like are a dime a dozen.../quote]
> 
> It's attitudes like this that keeps teachers from earning what they truly deserve. I was a public school teacher and LOML still is. Even after 11 years of teaching the same math subjects she puts in 60 - 80 hours/week. And I did the same. Any teacher who does otherwise doesn't do the students or subject justice. Additionally, what other profession(s) has to take an 8 to 12 hour battery of tests to be certified? I can tell you that answer... lawyers, doctors and CPAs jsut to name a few... and they all make sallaries comensurate to that certification. Just not teachers. Why? Because legislators have the same attitude toward teachers that you displayed. Yes, there are bad teachers. I worked with my share. But the good ones would stay if we paid them.
> 
> Okay, back to the subject at hand. It doesn't surprise me that Philly picked up Vick. Am I happy about it? No, but everyone deserves a second chance... even Stallworth. Notice I didn't say third or fourth chance.:wink:


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## Wheaties (Aug 14, 2009)

alamocdc said:


> Wheaties said:
> 
> 
> > True, but teachers and the like are a dime a dozen.../quote]
> ...


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## mrcook4570 (Aug 14, 2009)

Wheaties said:


> True, but teachers and the like are a dime a dozen and felons may have a harder time getting a job (and certain jobs not at all for good reason), but are not refused from every job. But how many people can run a 4.2 40 and make some of the best athletes in the world look silly? That's the difference. How rare are you skills. Sorry, but that's the facts. Again, I think people are just jealous. Myself included.



Theodore has a PhD in mathematics and was arguably the brightest mind of his time.  He was the youngest professor ever at UC-Berkeley (which is one of the top ranked academic institutions in the country).  He is smarter than 99.999% of the people in the world.  He has the ability to solve the most difficult problems .  He can make the other top minds look like idiots.  If he wanted a job at NASA, should he be considered?  His last name is Kaczynski.

Martina can change a diaper, tie shoes, care for minor scrapes and bruises, prepare bottles, and interact with young children faster and better than anyone else in the world.  She is the absolute best in the business.  She was convicted of running a child pornography website.  She did her time and now seeks employment at a daycare center.

BillyBob is 6'5" 275lbs, can run the 40 in 4.5, can easily bench press 405, is ambidextrous, can place 10 shots inside a quarter at 25 paces with a 45acp with either hand, has a faster reaction time than anyone else in the world, is a security expert, and is cool under pressure.  He is the best in the business.  He seeks employment as a bodyguard for the President.  He has a gambling habit and is $3.75 million in debt.  Can he get the job?


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## Wheaties (Aug 14, 2009)

mrcook4570 said:


> Theodore has a PhD in mathematics and was arguably the brightest mind of his time.  He was the youngest professor ever at UC-Berkeley (which is one of the top ranked academic institutions in the country).  He is smarter than 99.999% of the people in the world.  He has the ability to solve the most difficult problems .  He can make the other top minds look like idiots.  If he wanted a job at NASA, should he be considered?  His last name is Kaczynski.
> 
> Martina can change a diaper, tie shoes, care for minor scrapes and bruises, prepare bottles, and interact with young children faster and better than anyone else in the world.  She is the absolute best in the business.  She was convicted of running a child pornography website.  She did her time and now seeks employment at a daycare center.
> 
> BillyBob is 6'5" 275lbs, can run the 40 in 4.5, can easily bench press 405, is ambidextrous, can place 10 shots inside a quarter at 25 paces with a 45acp with either hand, has a faster reaction time than anyone else in the world, is a security expert, and is cool under pressure.  He is the best in the business.  He seeks employment as a bodyguard for the President.  He has a gambling habit and is $3.75 million in debt.  Can he get the job?




Don't quite get your point by making up unreal situations. If the system were cut and dry, we wouldn't need it.


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## rjwolfe3 (Aug 14, 2009)

I guess I don't understand this business of allowing our children to use any athlete (or any celebrity) as a role model. Maybe its because my kids aren't into sports. They probably couldn't even name a football player and I watch it often. I am careful about what I put in front of them. For instance, they know who Britney Spears is because they hear her on the radio but I would never allow them to watch a video of her because of how she acts. I personally am not offended by the "Britney Spears" of our world but I would rather my daughter not grow up like her. I do try to surround my kids with positive role models. I just wish other parents would too then we wouldn't have to worry about Michael Vick as a role model.

As a dog lover, I personally hate Vick. But he did his time and should be left alone now. As a non drinker I really hate Stallworth and think he should be in prison for a long time. He knew what he was doing when he decided to drink and drive. That was no accident. People that drink and drive, plan to drink and drive. They don't come to their senses after an car crash and wonder how their blood alcohol content got that high. They choose to drink and then they choose to drive. At the prison I work at, there are a lot of people who did the exact same thing that Stallworth did and they are serving at a minimum of 10 years. 

Can someone explain to me why people are more upset with Vick then with Stallworth?

BTW I think teachers are underpaid and are very valuable to society as a whole even though they are some bad apples. But that is the same as any profession.


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## drjpawlus (Aug 14, 2009)

They play football.  I played at the collegiate level and the NFL is not the place of high ethical standards that people are painting it out to be.  I played with a man just elected to the NFL Hall of Fame, considered the best ever at his position, and I remember him coming back into town after having millions in his pocket and getting caught stealing money out of the tip jar at a bar.  He was a thug.  There are lots of thugs, with violent backgrounds, raised in situations that are unthinkable.  They are who they are.  The NFL is a great entertaining sport, and to hold it to the level of a teacher who has a responsibility to teach children may be taking it a bit far.  He hits people for a living, that is the type of aggressive behavior that people watch the game for.  It is entertainment, that is all, this saying he is not fit to entertain is rather silly when you look at the makeup of the individuals who play this sport today and in the past.  I know many great players personally who play in the NFL, most of whom are great people.  I also know many who's past and crimes make Vick's seem rather tame in comparison.  The commisioner knows that if he held too high a standard, people would stop watching this non-violent game.


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## Russianwolf (Aug 14, 2009)

okay how's this.

The best, most decorated police officer in the country sets up an illegal enterprise and participates in it. He gets caught, tried and convicted of the crime. Should he be allowed to go back to being a cop once he serves his time?

One of the most ruthless and well paid Defense attorney's in the country? Should he be allowed to go back to his job?

How about the CEO of a Fortune 100 company (that isn't taking government handouts),who's business ethics are why he puts so much money in the pockets of his shareholders ?

Fact is there are quite a few professions where it's one strike and you are out. I've long said that Professional athlete SHOULD be one of them for ANY felony.

I'm so tired of hearing about XXX of the Carolina Panthers getting busted for Cocaine, and he's back on the team after serving 5 days in jail. This is one of the reasons I don't follow pro sports, they don't play the game to the best of their abilities for the love of the game.......

I'll also point out that a person who does things like this to animals, has a much higher chance of doing horrible things to people later. Nearly every sociopath started out with torturing animals.


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## Blind_Squirrel (Aug 14, 2009)

Vick is scum on many levels.  Running an extensive and unlawful interstate dogfighting ring that operated over a period of five years, lying about knowledge of the dogfighting, killing animals because they did not perform; the list goes on.

It is for these reasons that Vick should be banished from the NFL.  It is clear to me that he does not meet the requirements of the opening sentence in the NFL Personal Conduct Policy (http://www.nflplayers.com/images/fck/NFL Personal Conduct Policy 2008.pdf).

The NFL should have taken the high road and banished him from the game.  Instead they (again) show that all they are really interested in is $$$.  Vick will draw attendance, so he will be allowed to play, contrary to their own policy.


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## Wheaties (Aug 14, 2009)

Blind_Squirrel said:


> Vick is scum on many levels.  Running an extensive and unlawful interstate dogfighting ring that operated over a period of five years, lying about knowledge of the dogfighting, killing animals because they did not perform; the list goes on.
> 
> It is for these reasons that Vick should be banished from the NFL.  It is clear to me that he does not meet the requirements of the opening sentence in the NFL Personal Conduct Policy (http://www.nflplayers.com/images/fck/NFL Personal Conduct Policy 2008.pdf).
> 
> The NFL should have taken the high road and banished him from the game.  Instead they (again) show that all they are really interested in is $$$.  Vick will draw attendance, so he will be allowed to play, contrary to their own policy.



Technically, he is not re-instated yet. Goodell said that he will know his fate by week 6. So it's still up in the air. Granted, he will probably be re-instated.


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## jasonbowman (Aug 14, 2009)

I think the group is forgetting one thing:  You don't have to be LICENSED per se to play in the NFL.  It is an entertainment field (think Robert Downy, Jr, Guns and Roses, Johnny Cash in his earlier years, Aerosmith, Tu-Pac, etc). There are no fitness boards nor background checks as there are for lawyers, doctors, police, teachers, etc.  He entered a career that did not REQUIRE him to be of the highest ethical standard and when he EMBARRASSED Arthur Blank and the NFL, they kicked him out.  Pete Rose was banned for gambling on baseball.  Why?  Because they felt such can lead to players throwing games and impacting the sport.  What possible effect on football could fighting dogs cause?  Most, if not all, of the pro-sports figures are those who went to college not for the education but to play a game.  They end up bringing their "posse" of thugs along with them like ticks on a dog.  Even if the owners, trainers, coaches, etc can make a dent the posse gets them riled up and they act stupid anyway.  (think Big Play Ray of the Ravens, Pacman, TO, etc, etc, etc).  And as to felons, if we banned them from pro sports, we wouldn't have baseball, basketball, football, boxing or hockey(I'm not saying that's a bad thing).  However, our dollars paid for the entertainment directs the various commissioners in their zeal to institute controls.  If no one watches Philly in protest, they'll cut him as the dollar always controls.  No entertainer hits rehab until their drug habit impacts the fans thereby directly impacting the $$$.

As a side note, I do not agree that dog fighting leads to sociopathic behavior in this instance.  I think he was a sociopath long before he started the BAD NEWZ KENNEL - look at his brother...you can't get away from your raising.  The boy threw away his own career because he just couldn't act right (I actually thought he was better than Mike talent-wise).


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## jkeithrussell (Aug 14, 2009)

jasonbowman said:


> ...you can't get away from your raising.


 

Of course you can. People improve their station in life all the time.


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## jasonbowman (Aug 14, 2009)

Improving your lot in life is a far cry from introspective analysis and conscientious change from the deficiencies one finds therein.  A lot of people come from nothing to something. It is different to take a "bad" person who makes immature and overly emotional decisions based on their own insecurities and make them change into a "good" person who thoughtfully makes their choices.  Very few in life truly change who they formed to be during their formative years (process is too painful).  I have met some but most backslide because it wasn't real change.  Everyone in prison finds the Lord.  Very few remember him for long once released.  I don't have the answer (wish I did) but I have the observations.


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## rjwolfe3 (Aug 14, 2009)

Jason, you brought up a good point. Do we say that movie actors and actresses shouldn't star in anymore movies after they commit crimes? They are bigger role models then sports players are. Most kids could name their favorite actor/actress/musician quicker then they could a sports player. Where is the outrage over them? They check in and out of rehab more days then I work in a year. I honestly think that if it had been "insert famous actor here" that was busted fighting dogs then people wouldn't even notice and probably nominate that person for an Oscar the following year.

My point is where is the equality? Why are we holding Michael Vick to a higher standard of decency then every other celebrity at there? If Michael Vick shouldn't play football because of what he did off field then neither should any of the rest of them that have prior felonies. (And that's just the ones that got convicted.) Following that same line of thinking, every time a movie actor or a musician get arrested for a felony then they shouldn't be allowed to play in any more movies or have any more concerts. Wow, I think this world would be a much more boring place if we followed that line of thinking.

But for some reason this only applies to Vick and I have to ask why? What makes him any different then the rest of the scum that pollute our TV's on any given night?


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## Greg O'Sherwood (Aug 14, 2009)

No one can know the heart of another person, and although I have questions as to how genuine Vicks transformation really is (would he have made these changes without getting caught?), how about I just say the following:

*I wish Michael Vick success in an amount that is relative to how much he is truly repentant for his actions and equal to the good works he performs in the future.*

that should cover it...

.


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## Russianwolf (Aug 14, 2009)

rjwolfe3 said:


> Jason, you brought up a good point. Do we say that movie actors and actresses shouldn't star in anymore movies after they commit crimes? They are bigger role models then sports players are. Most kids could name their favorite actor/actress/musician quicker then they could a sports player. Where is the outrage over them? They check in and out of rehab more days then I work in a year. I honestly think that if it had been "insert famous actor here" that was busted fighting dogs then people wouldn't even notice and probably nominate that person for an Oscar the following year.
> 
> My point is where is the equality? Why are we holding Michael Vick to a higher standard of decency then every other celebrity at there? If Michael Vick shouldn't play football because of what he did off field then neither should any of the rest of them that have prior felonies. (And that's just the ones that got convicted.) Following that same line of thinking, every time a movie actor or a musician get arrested for a felony then they shouldn't be allowed to play in any more movies or have any more concerts. Wow, I think this world would be a much more boring place if we followed that line of thinking.
> 
> But for some reason this only applies to Vick and I have to ask why? What makes him any different then the rest of the scum that pollute our TV's on any given night?



Answer - Yes. When convicted of a felony, they should be unable to make the kind of money that often leads them to decision they made. Actors, Musicians, Athletes, Everyone. If you can't be responsible making $1mil a year, then you shouldnt be making it.


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## Russianwolf (Aug 14, 2009)

Not to worry, I'm betting he won't even be on the team in 6 weeks.
How many sponsors do you think the Eagles/NFL lose before they cut him loose?

http://houston.craigslist.org/pet/1322385727.html


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## Wheaties (Aug 14, 2009)

Russianwolf said:


> Not to worry, I'm betting he won't even be on the team in 6 weeks.
> How many sponsors do you think the Eagles/NFL lose before they cut him loose?
> 
> http://houston.craigslist.org/pet/1322385727.html



Yeah.... I'm sure that will work just as well as the gas protests worked. Good luck to you if you hop on that bandwagon.


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## Wheaties (Aug 14, 2009)

Live press conference right now on ESPN and ESPNRadio.


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## Blind_Squirrel (Aug 14, 2009)

Wheaties said:


> Technically, he is not re-instated yet. Goodell said that he will know his fate by week 6. So it's still up in the air. Granted, he will probably be re-instated.



Incorrect.  He has been conditionally reinstated. http://www.850thebuzz.com/blog/?p=10691


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## Wheaties (Aug 14, 2009)

Blind_Squirrel said:


> Incorrect.  He has been conditionally reinstated. http://www.850thebuzz.com/blog/?p=10691



True. Goodell made up a new term meaning: "He can sign with a team to work out and practice (because otherwise no one would sign him), but that doesn't mean he'll get to play after week 6"


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## Daniel (Aug 14, 2009)

I am not a football fan, and I am not current on this story. I do know what you are talking about because I heard it on the news this morning that he was signed with the Eagles. I am even more aware of how Professional Athletics are willing to overlook some of the most horrendous behavior to have players. Have a multi million dollar career regardless of what he has done is not matter of right or no right. that is a decision made by the owners and managers of the teams. That they woudl make the decison to ahve a part fo there team reveals a condition of our society. In short it will be tolerated. the truth is his behavior is not "To much" for our society. Children will admire him beause it is demonstrated that they should by there parents. IT will be demonstrated in that the Eagles will not suffer for this decison, in fact hey will very likely be rewarded with higher ticket sales. many will go to a game just to scream at the guy.
It is also true that teachers are not more important than athletes to our society. or we would be sighning great teachers to multi million dollar contracts. For the large part we will never even know who the great teachers are. it will never make the news when a teacher has preformed at far above average skill levels. And can you imagine a teacher of any caliber ever being a teacher again after having been arrested and spending two years on prison for any crime? 
The Physical Universe does not lie, and the truth is a dog fighter will be paid millions and teachers will be ignored. Our society is not perfect and it is not Vick's fault. He has his problems, but it is our society that has the more serious illnesses. if one time, just one time, it cost a team to sign someone like this. it would never happen again.


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## jkeithrussell (Aug 14, 2009)

On Vick, if you don't like it, don't watch. It's as simple as that. 

I'm glad that no one has beaten me down over the last 20+ years over some of the mistakes that I made when I was young. To read some of these posts, I guess I'm lucky that I wasn't hauled out back and shot for the protection of all mankind. To make the point a little finer, I did some bad things when I was a teenager and young adult, but I didn't get the memo that I wasn't able to overcome my upbringing. To say that "you can't get away from your raising" is, in my personal experience, false.


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## Rojo22 (Aug 14, 2009)

Being from Atlanta, and watching Vick as a star for his "tenure" here in Atlanta, I can tell you right now, I am glad he signed with anyone who plays against the Falcons.  We endured seasons where Vick was a super star and saved the Falcons from losing a few games more than they should, but hey, when you are a Falcons fan, you know that kind of pain.  One person cannot play in the NFL and win games by himself.

He is all for himself, and quite frankly, never was part of the team here.  He is not very bright, and as one woman interviewed at the ESPN Zone from Philly stated "the offensive scheme up there is one of the most complex in the NFL, and it will take years for someone to come in and learn the scheme".  Vick is not bright enough to get the team concept, so if you think he is going to thrive in Philly, I would point out that Atlanta had to "dumb" down the scheme here for him.

Amazing athlete, and has talent, and now has a history that is not very nice by normal standards....Just right for the NFL.  There never will be a football league or baseball or name your sport here, (other than NASCAR), that will have responsible, real people throughout.  You have some nice people in sports, but most of them are folks who couldnt cut the college scene, and certainly wont in real life given they are spoiled rotten, and treated like celebrities.  Too much money, and no real standards as a human being, and that is the real NFL.  Quite frankly, if you can keep them all in one place, and have them hammering on themselves all the time, so much the better.


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## Wheaties (Aug 14, 2009)

Rojo22 said:


> There never will be a football league or baseball or name your sport here, (other than NASCAR), that will have responsible, real people throughout.



Really? Nascar? I think their latest and greatest has a meth problem. Just saying, ALL sports have their problems. As do each one of us.


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## ngeb528 (Aug 14, 2009)

rjwolfe3 said:


> Don't forget that ex Browns player may soon be playing again. Of course people don't seem to be as angry with him as Vick. I mean after all he just killed a human being while drunk and then spent a month in jail. I mean Vick did much, much worse things then that.:biggrin::tongue:


 
Stallworth isn't going to be playing or getting paid this year.  I don't expect the Browns to keep him after that.


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## ngeb528 (Aug 14, 2009)

Wheaties said:


> Really? Nascar? I think their latest and greatest has a meth problem. Just saying, ALL sports have their problems. As do each one of us.


 
Their latest & greatest has had to sell his Nascar equipment because nobody wanted to sponser him.  He's done in Nascar - as he should be.


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## rjwolfe3 (Aug 14, 2009)

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rjwolfe3*
> 
> 
> ...



That's why I said ex. But he has asked for permission to come back and probably will get it and will be playing for someone. My point is: why is there no backlash against Stallworth? What makes his situation any different then Vick's? Stallworth murdered someone while driving drunk. Vick beat up and killed some dogs. Our ancestors did worse then that raising animals. Please understand that I think what Vick did was horrible but it not on the same level as taking someone else's life.


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## alamocdc (Aug 14, 2009)

ngeb528 said:


> Their latest & greatest has had to sell his Nascar equipment because nobody wanted to sponser him. He's done in Nascar - as he should be.


 
Okay, I must have missed something. Who are we talking aout here?


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## rjwolfe3 (Aug 14, 2009)

Jeremy Mayfield I believe. I saw that he tested positive again but I haven't seen the article on where he is selling off all of his stuff.


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## Russianwolf (Aug 14, 2009)

Wheaties said:


> Yeah.... I'm sure that will work just as well as the gas protests worked. Good luck to you if you hop on that bandwagon.



 Gas protest don't work because if you boycott one company, they just sell to someone else (another country). It's a commodity and as long as there is a demand for it, there will be a buyer somewhere.

boycotts of sponsors to effect something like this can and have worked in the past. Remember that by signing him, the Eagles/NFL have associated him with all their sponsors. Many of the Sponsors will not be happy with the decisions and if they hear from their consumers enough, they will pull their money out of the deal.

Remember, Many sponsors dropped their associations with Phelps over a picture, not a conviction.


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## Wheaties (Aug 14, 2009)

Russianwolf said:


> Gas protest don't work because if you boycott one company, they just sell to someone else (another country). It's a commodity and as long as there is a demand for it, there will be a buyer somewhere.
> 
> boycotts of sponsors to effect something like this can and have worked in the past. Remember that by signing him, the Eagles/NFL have associated him with all their sponsors. Many of the Sponsors will not be happy with the decisions and if they hear from their consumers enough, they will pull their money out of the deal.
> 
> Remember, Many sponsors dropped their associations with Phelps over a picture, not a conviction.



Ok, but I still think it will have the same effectiveness. When coaches, players, owners, GM's, and the commissioner are ok with it. I think the juggernaut that is the NFL will be fine.


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## alamocdc (Aug 14, 2009)

Hhhmmm... yep, I missed it. But I don't know that I'd call him NASCAR's latest and greatest. Many other drivers are better.

Just did a little research. His own mother outted him! Dude! That has to suck. And after two failed tests in a year, he'll lilkely not find a sponsor.


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## Phunky_2003 (Aug 14, 2009)

Jeremy Mayfield was never the latest and greatest in Nascar.  Most the time he was lucky to be in the top 20.  He wasn't signed to a team when all this went down, he had to start up his own team.  But yes he had to sell off all of his equipment for the problems. 

Nascar has one of the strongest drug policies in sports.  He's not the first to have a lifetime ban from "all sponsored Nascar" events.  Which include more than the top 3 series seen on tv.  There are basically no places he can go to race now.  

James


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## Wheaties (Aug 14, 2009)

Phunky_2003 said:


> Jeremy Mayfield was never the latest and greatest in Nascar.  Most the time he was lucky to be in the top 20.  He wasn't signed to a team when all this went down, he had to start up his own team.  But yes he had to sell off all of his equipment for the problems.
> 
> Nascar has one of the strongest drug policies in sports.  He's not the first to have a lifetime ban from "all sponsored Nascar" events.  Which include more than the top 3 series seen on tv.  There are basically no places he can go to race now.
> 
> James



Sorry. I meant the latest and greatest situation that nascar had to deal with. After re-reading my post I see where the confusion lies because I don't know anyone who thinks he's good.


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## Phunky_2003 (Aug 14, 2009)

Zach 

I should clarify also.  He may not have been to the expectations of others.  Running in the top 35 of Nascar clears you quite a chunk of change from sponors and winnings.  And he did make it to the top level of racing.  

But I will say I do know of 3 other drivers who have lifetime bans from drugs and/or performance inhancing drugs in Nascar.  They also suspended drivers and docked points for bringing negative spotlights on the sport.  One driver a few years back suspended 6 races docked 100 point for dui( and he didn't hit anybody, just pulled over).  

They are far better at "policing" their sport than any other.  Thats just the point I was trying to make.

James


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## Phunky_2003 (Aug 14, 2009)

jkeithrussell said:


> On Vick, if you don't like it, don't watch. It's as simple as that.
> 
> I'm glad that no one has beaten me down over the last 20+ years over some of the mistakes that I made when I was young. To read some of these posts, I guess I'm lucky that I wasn't hauled out back and shot for the protection of all mankind. To make the point a little finer, I did some bad things when I was a teenager and young adult, but I didn't get the memo that I wasn't able to overcome my upbringing. To say that "you can't get away from your raising" is, in my personal experience, false.


 
I couldn't agree more with you!  I did more than my fair share of "brain meltdown decisions" while younger.  And learned quite a bit from it.  How your raised or where your raised has no bearing on you as a man and the decisions you make in your life.  Something that really gets me is when someone says........... awwwww well he gets that honest, look at how he was raised.  Dont make excuses!


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## sdemars (Aug 14, 2009)

I kind of like "Vick's" prospective being applied to him . . .  

When he can no longer perform at the level expected of him, HANG & BURN him as he did the dogs . . . 

I like dogs, have never been lied to by a dog, have never been robbed or cheated by a dog.

Only people are capable of outright cruelty . . . If he were anybody else, like Joe Smuck everyone would be saying he deserves life in prison . . .

For some I'm sure he's a hero, thats OK the world needs more losers . . .

Steve


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## jasonbowman (Aug 14, 2009)

I apologize to anyone who took offense to my statement of "you can't get away from your raising".  I don't include youthful indiscretions nor do I include rebellious activities.  We all go through "learning experiences" and nary a one of us walks this planet without something we regret (myself specifically included). However, my comment stands as a generalization.  If your parents, family, friends, neighborhood, etc. teach you killing is ok or slinging crack is the only way to make a living or that cheating is the only way to win, you learn what you are taught. My comment directly applied to the ghetto manner in which Vick and his thug posse and thug brother were "TAUGHT" to act and view the world (there are also many things that went on behind the scenes here in Atlanta that the general public never heard of - as is the case with most professional athletes).  I agree that there are no excuses but to ignore that a certain segment of society is being taught to look at the world from a totally different perspective doesn't take into consideration the reality of the situation and belies any effort to correct same before it gets to the point of someone getting killed.  The mentality is that they are above the law (or forgotten by it) because they do that which is banned and have not been stopped up to the point of when they are.  Then it is society's fault or a racial thing or lack of understanding or Mommy didn't love me enough or whatever.  Very few who go knee deep into the thicket can come back totally.  Also remember the details:  He tested positive for Herpes in college under the name "Ron Mexico"; he got into trouble going through the airport with a faked bttomed water bottle (typically used for smuggling drugs); It wasn't just dog fighting -  A major reason his posse turned on him was the drugs found, etc, etc. 
The kids brought up in such who are ACTIVE in the lifestyle during their formative years (as opposed to those brought up around it but never become gangbangers themselves) have their whole way of looking at things changed.  To reverse the effects, you have to break them back down to almost the level they were when their manner of analysis was deformed.  To anyone here who grew up with depravity drilled into you, who actually participated in various major felonies (killing, raping, etc) and who made it out to correct the way in which you view society and make decisions, I applaud you.  To ANYONE offended by my comment, I am sorry.


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## jleiwig (Aug 14, 2009)

Yeah..with a team valued at over a billion dollars and 237 million in revenue last year alone they will really care if people stop drinking snapple because of michael vick? His total contract is an 8th of a percent of their total value.  If one of the sponsors drops the Eagles, three more will beg to take their place.  The NFL is the richest professional sports league in the country. You need to think of it as a business decision and nothing else.  Everyone agrees what he did is horrible, but he's paid his pennance according to our system, and he will pay his pennance when his judgement day comes.    

Someone mentioned Johnny Cash.  He killed a man and is one of the most famous singers of all time.  I don't hear anyone badmouthing him.  

I will not judge Vick because it's not my job.  I'm not perfect, so who am I to judge him?


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## jkeithrussell (Aug 14, 2009)

Jason -- I certainly did not take offense at what you said.  I doubt you could offend me in a personal way if you tried.  I don't agree with you (at least not entirely), but I do enjoy discussing it, and I know you have good reasons for your opinions.  I take it for granted that people are posting on threads like these to exchange ideas, and not to get in a fuss.  It doesn't hurt my feelings at all to read a contrary point of view.


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## jkeithrussell (Aug 14, 2009)

jleiwig said:


> Yeah..with a team valued at over a billion dollars and 237 million in revenue last year alone they will really care if people stop drinking snapple because of michael vick? His total contract is an 8th of a percent of their total value. If one of the sponsors drops the Eagles, three more will beg to take their place. The NFL is the richest professional sports league in the country. You need to think of it as a business decision and nothing else. Everyone agrees what he did is horrible, but he's paid his pennance according to our system, and he will pay his pennance when his judgement day comes.
> 
> Someone mentioned Johnny Cash. He killed a man and is one of the most famous singers of all time. I don't hear anyone badmouthing him.
> 
> I will not judge Vick because it's not my job. I'm not perfect, so who am I to judge him?


 
Good post.


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## jasonbowman (Aug 14, 2009)

JKeithRussell:  GOOD!  No offense was intended.

Now, who did Johnny Cash kill?  I know he sang a song about it but I only know about him getting caught with pills crossing the border from Mexico???


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## jkeithrussell (Aug 14, 2009)

I took the Johnny Cash reference as metaphorical, but I may have missed something.  Cash was rumored to have killed a man, because of the lyrics, but I don't know that it is anything other than a myth.


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## Russianwolf (Aug 14, 2009)

jleiwig said:


> Yeah..with a team valued at over a billion dollars and 237 million in revenue last year alone they will really care if people stop drinking snapple because of michael vick? His total contract is an 8th of a percent of their total value.  If one of the sponsors drops the Eagles, three more will beg to take their place.  The NFL is the richest professional sports league in the country. You need to think of it as a business decision and nothing else.  Everyone agrees what he did is horrible, but he's paid his pennance according to our system, and he will pay his pennance when his judgement day comes.
> 
> Someone mentioned Johnny Cash.  He killed a man and is one of the most famous singers of all time.  I don't hear anyone badmouthing him.
> 
> I will not judge Vick because it's not my job.  I'm not perfect, so who am I to judge him?



Will the Eagles care at first? Maybe not, but Snapple will. They are being associated with Vick through their sponsorship of the team. This is a concern for their Public Relations Team as well as it is for The Eagles PR people. 

Sponsoring a team is advertising, you advertise to increase sales, but when an advertisement starts decreasing sales what do you do? You stop the advertisement. Now, If I'm the CEO of Y and I see X drop a sponsorship because they are being boycotted and losing sales, Am I going to "beg to take their place" and pick up that sponsorship and risk decreasing my sales? I think not.

The Sponsors pay Millions to the teams/nfl for the advertisement, that's millions of decreased revenue to the teams/nfl when they start dropping the sponsorships. Will they care? 

Think of it as a business decision? I think I just did.


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## jleiwig (Aug 14, 2009)

jkeithrussell said:


> I took the Johnny Cash reference as metaphorical, but I may have missed something. Cash was rumored to have killed a man, because of the lyrics, but I don't know that it is anything other than a myth.


 
It is a myth...I thought I had deleted it from my post.  LOL..oops..I was thinking of Dwayne Chapman....AKA Dog the bounty hunter.

It still gets the point across though that they are just humans doing a job.


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## jleiwig (Aug 14, 2009)

Russianwolf said:


> Think of it as a business decision? I think I just did.


 
Not really...or you would realize that advertising in the NFL is the most cuthroat of all advertising.  How much does a 30 second ad during the all star game or world series go for?  How about the Stanley Cup?  Pennies on the dollar compared to the NFL.  The NFL is the Mecca of sports advertising dollars. 

Budweiser isn't even the official sponsor of the NFL, Coors is, but who has more superbowl commercials at around 3 million for 30 seconds?


As a sponsor you get the privelege to use the teams logos, not the other way around.  Do you see snapple billboards at the eagles stadium?  No, but you could see "Snapple, the officially licensed drink of the Philadelphia Eagles" 

Pepsi spent over 1 billion dollars for their NFL contract.  Do you think they are going to renig on that kind of money because of little Michael Vick?  

Like I said..the Eagles could care less if Snapple or any other company stopped being a sponsor.  Ok Snapple..don't be a sponsor...Monster or Rock Star or any of the other 30 billion energy drink manufacturers will take your place in a heartbeat.  Other companies will beg at the chance to be a sponsor of an NFL team.  The NFL even has it's own toilet paper sponsorship agreement with Proctor & Gamble.  Trust me..this will be non-blip on the radar of any major sponsor.

Sponsors only acount for 3.3% of all sports revenue across all sports. Endorsements only .5%....so not a big deal at all.


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## jkeithrussell (Aug 14, 2009)

Plus the question assumes that the sponsors will actually drop.  I doubt they will.  The Vick drama will add viewers and people buying tickets to the games.  That's more people to see the advertising.  Vick is drama, and drama draws crowds.  That's a big part of the reason why the Eagles signed him.  I know people are angry about what he did, as they should be.  But, you have to keep it in context.  In a weird example, think about Michael Jackson.  He made untold mountains of money after he was accused (credibly, in my opinion) of being a child molester, dangled his child off a balcony, etc.  Why didn't the world rise up in righteous indignation and boycott Michael Jackson?  Because people love drama.  And advertisers love people.


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## jimbob91577 (Aug 14, 2009)

Okay - I've sat back a little bit and waited until I could clarify my thoughts a little better.  And the question I have is: "Whats the big problem?"

I mean, if you believe in our justice system, then Vick served his time and should be allowed to return to life as a contributing member of society right?  If you believe in any sort of religion, then I'm sure you believe in forgivness right?  So I ask again, what is the big problem?  

Sure dog fighting is deplorable, but so are so many other things - like human rights violations.  I don't condone what Vick did, and punishment should fit the crime - the question now is, was Vick's punishment adequate for the crime committed.  If so, then we as a society need to respect that decision.  Sure there will be people who aren't happy with the punishment (members of PETA probably think he should have got more time, people who dog fight probably think he got too much) - but by and large I'm sure most people feel the punishment fit the crime.  

With regards to the NFL and his signing with the Eagles - You're free to stop watching the NFL and the Eagles at any time - you're free to stop buying products from their sponsors, but again, because most people will accept that the punishment fit the crime, this boycot of the NFL won't make a lick of difference.  Its ironic that folks will condem Vick for dog fighting and boycott the NFL and Eagles, but will order more pen kits from China.

Further, someone mentioned the "Right to play in the NFL" - everyone has that right to some degree.  I mean, it is our physical limitations and talent that prevent us from playing.  Where the gray line is drawn is can women play in the NFL?  Technically the NFL can't discriminate based on gender, but there hasn't been a woman play in the NFL that I know of.  So why does Vick get the right to play in the NFL - because there is nothing prohibiting him from doing so.  I suppose the prosecutors could have put it in their plea agreements, or the NFL could have enacted policy prohibiting players from playing if they have a felony on their record - but they haven't and I suspect won't.  If you make the argument that he shouldn't play in the NFL because he will be a role model for kids - then I would argue that the parents of said kids should teach their children what the difference between a good role model and a bad role model is.

Finally - and someone hit on this earlier in the thread - the crime involved dogs.  It wasn't like he was making people fight or gambling on said people fight.  Why is it okay to bash on Vick and call for him to be "Hung & Burn as he did the dogs" - yet less outrage is expressed against folks like Ted Kennedy (remember Mary Jo Kopechne?) or James Brown (Weapons & Drugs).  Why is there such disparity between crimes committed against people (including children) versus crimes committed against animals?


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## dalemcginnis (Aug 14, 2009)

I think all of us need to take another look at ourselves and refocus OUR priorities.  At the time I'm writing this there are 775 views and 64 posts in this thread while there is another thread that has 75 views and only 1 post on a subject that in my mind at least is a lot more deserving of attention than whether Vick should or shouldn't be allowed to play in the NFL.  What's that subject?  The return of the remains of Captain Scott Speicher.


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## Rojo22 (Aug 14, 2009)

My point about NASCAR was that it polices itself.  You screw up, they make sure you either pay for it, or you are gone.  Can someone also give me an example of a sporting event that has a prayer or invocation where all faiths stand and pray together before the event starts without the ACLU protesting?  For all the bad press NASCAR gets for being a "redneck" sport, they certainly get a lot of things right.

You want to see thugs getting paid millions of bucks to beat up on each other, the NFL is certainly the place for "second", "third", "fourth".....chances....because its a business decision for the NFL.  Says a ton through actions about how you run your business by letting these thugs earn millions of bucks, and influence your kids......


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## Jgrden (Aug 14, 2009)

He is a lousy quarterback. The dog thing took focus off his bad playing.


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## bitshird (Aug 14, 2009)

Wheaties said:


> True, but teachers and the like are a dime a dozen and felons may have a harder time getting a job (and certain jobs not at all for good reason),



Zach, Part of the problems with our society is that our children are more apt to mimic a Professional  athlete than they are someone that actually is, or should be a role model like a teacher.
 In some country's educators are still held in the highest esteem UNFORTUNATELY this isn't one of them, and we wonder why our nation is falling behind on every educational level.




jkeithrussell said:


> I took the Johnny Cash reference as metaphorical, but I may have missed something.  Cash was rumored to have killed a man, because of the lyrics, but I don't know that it is anything other than a myth.




James, I think they were referring to his drug use.


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## DCBluesman (Aug 14, 2009)

"Commissioner Roger Goodell and the Philadelphia Eagles have granted
Michael Vick a second chance, and the ASPCA expects Mr. Vick to express
remorse for his actions, as well as display more compassion and sound judgment
this time around than he did during his previous tenure with the NFL. We hope
that Mr. Vick uses his stature for the betterment of the community and the
advancement of the issue of animal cruelty."

--Ed Sayres, President and CEO
of The ASPCA (The American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals )


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## jfoh (Aug 14, 2009)

Peta has been one of the most vocal groups against Vick's being allowed to play again in the NFL. Many fail to remember that PETA was busted for killing dogs and dumping them in dumpsters. Can you spell Hippocrate without the letters PETA. He was an jerk and did some really dumb and stupid things. But he did not kill a person, rape a lady or molest a child. That puts him a step above the NFL player who was drunk and killed a person. It puts him a step above Mike Tyson. And it puts him a step above Michael Jackson. Flawed, but not the scum of the Earth.

He was a jerk, he did something really stupid. He should pay a major price for his stupid, senseless act. I say about a hundred million dollars. Maybe a year in jail. Maybe have everyone he knows assume is he is a jerk. Be publicly humiliated and cause his entire family untold embarrassment.  Oh, he has done that all ready.

Truth is that he is not that great of a NFL quarterback and the NFL and game will soon leave him behind. Never been that big of a fan of his and will not become one in the future.


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## Jgrden (Aug 14, 2009)

jfoh, that is what I said, he is not that great a quarterback anyway. However, he will be an imprvement over Mcnab.


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## jimofsanston (Aug 14, 2009)

*No Way*



DocStram said:


> " . . . teachers and the like are a dime a dozen . . . " how insulting to America's educators.
> 
> So a pro athlete can run a 4.2 40 . . . my wife just stayed up until 2:30 this morning writing lesson plans . . . and she left for school at 6 this morning to face 21 first graders. Let's see a pro athlete do that.


 
You could not even pay me to face a bunch of first graders. It takes a lot more (excuess the expression) BALLs to keep them in check let alone their attention spans.


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## jkeithrussell (Aug 14, 2009)

jfoh said:


> Can you spell Hippocrate without the letters PETA


 
That's hilarious. It's spelled "hypocrite."


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## jaeger (Aug 15, 2009)

*Hide your beagle, Vick is an Eagle*


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## Rojo22 (Aug 15, 2009)

Jgrden said:


> jfoh, that is what I said, he is not that great a quarterback anyway. However, he will be an imprvement over Mcnab.



Vick cannot read a defense.  He wants to run on his own, and be his own player.  At least Mcnabb can run down maybe 2 or 3 options before he takes off, but Vick is not disciplined enough to make the other players a critical part of the offense.  He does not protect the football, and just as many good plays are followed up by fumbles.  We had enough of him in Atlanta, without all the other junk he did here.  Good luck with him, but he is a selfish ball hog, who could care less about following an offensive scheme.


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## Daniel (Aug 16, 2009)

jimbob91577 said:


> Okay - I've sat back a little bit and waited until I could clarify my thoughts a little better.  And the question I have is: "Whats the big problem?"
> 
> I mean, if you believe in our justice system, then Vick served his time and should be allowed to return to life as a contributing member of society right?  If you believe in any sort of religion, then I'm sure you believe in forgivness right?  So I ask again, what is the big problem?



Jim, I am not at all trying to "Pick" on your thoughts. But this one did catch my eye. This has nothign to do with Vick, btu is a thought I have had many times.
At one time I thought as your comments suggests here. Pay for your crime and that is what is expected of you. But the truth is this is not longer true in our society. It is becoming more and more of a trend that once you have committed a crime, there is never a complete "having payed for it" Society ahs decided that at least certain crimes now brand you forever a greater threat than the average person. It has now become acceptable to punish people for things that society thinks they may do rather than only for what they have done. Likewise it is now acceptable to punish people for crimes others have committed that are simular to what they have done. Is a person that has Robbed a bank any more likely to do it again, Even after having been caught, convicted and punished? Are they more likely than anyone else that has just as much opportunity to commit that crime?
Should we require that an annual photo and finger prints be filed for every citizen in case they do commit a crime? That is in fact what is required of anyone that has ever committed a Felony. The fact is that many crimes are never completely atonable in our society. 

Society has decided that it is proper to not overlook past transgressions. So in application to situations like Vick. Should he be considered absolved of past behavior? Never.


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## titan2 (Aug 17, 2009)

jaeger said:


> *Hide your beagle, Vick is an Eagle*


 
More like the Eagles are going to the 'Dogs'!!!  I don't think he'll bring much inprovement to the mix in the long run...........

We'll see.......



Barney


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## Jgrden (Aug 17, 2009)

I watched the 60 Minute interview with him and I do not believe he understands to moral transgressions he committed. He just does not show remorse. I don't believe him.


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## Blind_Squirrel (Aug 18, 2009)

Good article (IMO) on the topic: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/phil_taylor/08/18/vick/


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## Rojo22 (Aug 18, 2009)

Good link above.  It is spot on.  The interview was a joke in my opinion, and the sports writer was dead on with his appraisal of the content of the interview.  It was a bunch of "what do I have to say to get back to the NFL" moment......the NFL deserves him.....


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## rjwolfe3 (Aug 18, 2009)

This was favorite part of the above mentioned article:



> The other half of the equation -- the issue of Vick's reinstatement to the NFL and his subsequent signing with the Philadelphia Eagles, is simpler. There was no good reason -- and by good I mean logical, rational and fair -- to ban him permanently from the league. Vick's crimes, however heinous, had nothing to do with football, and absent any indication that he would further embarrass the NFL by returning to the despicable business of dogfighting, he deserved the chance to resume his career just like any other ex-con would, assuming there was a team that wanted his services.
> Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/phil_taylor/08/18/vick/#ixzz0OY9ti1Od
> ​


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## Rojo22 (Aug 19, 2009)

rjwolfe3 said:


> This was favorite part of the above mentioned article:



What it really translates to is:  In the group of despicable people called the NFL...he wouldnt stand out too much, so let him back in.......

I have no problem with him playing football....my problem is someone giving him the opportunity to play football...big difference....let him drive nails for a living, drive a truck, paint houses or some other job he qualifies for.


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