# A little help!



## BradG (Jul 16, 2015)

I am considering making a selection of pens for sale at shows here in the UK (kitless).

From what I've heard, the market here generally want fountain pens but I don't know much about them :redface:

I am presuming I will need to be using better nibs than what comes with a gent kit for instance. If anyone wouldn't mind taking the time to explain what people are looking for it would be greatly appreciated.

Is there any preference on the different type of ink systems? on the cheap ones I've owned I usually buy those cartridges, though I've seen the plunger type refilling ones too.


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## Brooks803 (Jul 17, 2015)

Great questions Brad! 

The FP community is a fickle beast. I personally say you'll need to upgrade your nibs. Even with Bock or Jowo many users still look down on them. They know they are good nibs to write with, but they're plain and boring in their eyes. With little to no other options for us it's still what most of us use. Your price point for your pens might determine if you want to provide 18k nibs as standard or as an upgrade. 

Most importantly...start using a FP! You need to be able to talk the talk with your potential buyers. If you don't sound competent or confident they'll walk. 

Most pens today use converter/cartridge style ink systems. With your skills though and some research I'm betting  you can think up some other cool filling systems that'd be high in demand. There are many different kinds out there. Another popular ink system is the oldest...an eyedropper. With your pens though this wouldn't be advisable unless you sleeve it with ebonite. Inks and bare metal do not mix! 

There are some really good pen makers in your neck of the woods. John Twiss Twiss Pens - Handmade pens for all pockets does amazing work. Another is in Belgum Conid Pens Conid

I know your on FB...do a search for a group called "custom pen artists" and ask to join. There's lot of great pen makers in there that talk shop a bit more freely on lots of subjects. You have to show your work to get in, but you'll have no issue what so ever.


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## skiprat (Jul 18, 2015)

This is no insult Brad, so don't take any offence, ok?:wink:
I'm no FP expert but thought that they are preferably very lightweight. Your metal etched pens seem a bit heavy to be FPs.

Of course, if you start using metal like titanium then I'll be watching like a hawk.
I know you use aluminium already, but I don't really like the stuff.

Btw.....where the hell are are you finding all the time and dosh to get ahead so quickly??????  Robbed a bank??? Won the Lotto????:biggrin:


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## BradG (Jul 18, 2015)

Thanks for all the helpful info Jonathon  that will certainly give me lots to look at. I've just applied for the group so il have a nosey in there soon. thanks for the tip of ink and metals don't mix... didn't know that!

Steve, lol it would take alot more than that to ruffle my fur :biggrin:
if you recall, my first pens were aluminium which I anodised. Once bored of anodising I wanted to hone my skills at plating. Plating is a very steep learning curve with alot of obstacles and pit falls along the way. if you wanted to turn that learning curve into expert mode difficulty, then start off trying to plate aluminium. By turning all of my pens out of brass previously, I could alleviate alot of problems, being as its a copper based alloy which will gladly bond with a plating. Aluminium needs to be zincated before it can be plated but you can't zincate until all the oxide is removed, and if you zincate by 20 or so seconds too long the zinc will go on too thick, which will make your plating blister and fall off. You would be a little mad to start off trying to plate the stuff :wink:  Being a glutton for punishment this time around I've invested in zincate so I can plate aluminium

Taking a full sized gent pen out of my collection, which has one of Jonathon's blanks on, weighs in at 59grams.

The last pen I made, the Kraken one, only weighs 49grams, 10 grams lighter! Maybe I can warm your way of thinking with regards to aluminium once I've got some of it plated 

Titanium is also on my list to conquer, but for that I need to source hydrofluoric acid which is troublesome. it really is nasty stuff with the chemical burns it can dish out due to the fluorine content which is why most people don't touch it.

lol with regards to getting ahead quickly... it feels like it's taking forever lol. You know yourself the most expensive part of a workshop for us metal lovers is the lathe. That was the obstacle for me. A couple of people commissioned me to make them a pen or two which was a great help in reaching the goal, and a local businessman invested in me in exchange for advice and guidance helping him learn to plate and anodise. with those alone it covered the lathe.. everything else is not too expensive in comparison and I can pick up as and when I can. We started a Chemical supply company back in January too which is getting pretty big now. it's heavily monitored by Jen but some times I can smile innocently, make her a brew and persuade her to release some of the profits in my direction. feel free to have a nosey Home


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## BRobbins629 (Jul 18, 2015)

I would also try to go to one or more fountain pen shows.  I know there are several in the UK throughout the year.  You will see antique, commercial, and some penmakers like yourself.  Takes a while to establish a name, but a look around and some conversation will go a long way towards learning.  I've seen a couple start out at these shows slowly and within a few years have gained international attention.  Check out Edison Pen.  Brian GRay is an IAP member who in the not too distant past was making kit pens and now has a thriving custom and commercial pen business with sales all over the world.


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## BradG (Jul 19, 2015)

Thanks Bruce.  There's  actually a show in my town in April so I will certainly be going along to that one to case it out :wink:

If I can get to any others before then il  be sure to swing by


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## luke39uk (Jul 19, 2015)

BradG said:


> I am considering making a selection of pens for sale at shows here in the UK (kitless).
> 
> From what I've heard, the market here generally want fountain pens but I don't know much about them :redface:
> 
> ...



Brad

I've been selling my kitless fountain pens at most of the UK pen shows for the last eight years so I have a little insight into them. Please bear in mind the majority of customers attending UK pen shows are looking for vintage pens. Although some customers are looking for something different and are open to buying custom made pens. Myself and John Twiss from Twiss pens do well at most of the UK shows. I can PM you the details of the better attended shows, and the UK shows not to bother with.

You will definitely need to offer better quality Steel or Gold nibs eg Jowo or Bock or even vintage flex nibs if you can find them.

 I can PM you the contact details for John Sorowka or (Oxonian as he is known on the FPN) who is the UK agent for Jowo. John supplies my Steel and Gold Jowo nibs and also offers a nib grinding service. 

You need to offer at least a cartridge/convertor filling system. A button filler or piston filler with a gold nib would sell better in a custom made pen.

There could be a weight issue with your pens unless they are made from solid Sterling Silver as used by Yard-O-Led I think their Grand Victorian weighs about 70 grams. Most of my customers prefer a lighter pen if they are using a fountain pen at work all day. But hey that's something you can work on to lighten your pens.

The best advice I can give is for you to come and look at one of the UK pen shows before you take the plunge and come and chat with me or John Twiss. 

I will be at the London pen show along with John Twiss in October. In the meantime feel free to PM if you require any specific details. 

Bryan.


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## BradG (Jul 20, 2015)

Bryan
Thanks for sharing your knowledge of the UK market it's appreciated.

By all means a pm on the shows from yourself would be well received, along with the contact details for John.

Weight won't be an issue, my last pen weighed in at 49 grams


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## luke39uk (Jul 20, 2015)

Brad PM sent.


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## Bryguy (Jul 20, 2015)

Brad,
Glad to see your site is up with those great tutorials. I have been an FP user and collector for over 40yrs. Jowo and Bock are the nibs that will be easiest to obtain they are the leading nib makers and many commercial pen makers get their pens from them. Get different nib sizes. For a FP user, size matters! You should also read up on tuning nibs, they are usually not smooth when you get them from the factory. You'll find all the information you need at fountain pen network. 
As to weight, my heaviest pen is a Churchman's Prescriptor from Italix (Mr. Pen in the UK) it weighs about 52g. The pen is made from solid brass, so you Al pens shouldn't be too heavy.
As to filling mechanisms, learn everything you need to know from Marshall and Oldfield's _Pen Repair_
Good luck! I love your work and it would be great to see your FPs.


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## darrin1200 (Jul 20, 2015)

Glad to see you back Brad. I think your work will shine in the fountain pen world. A bulb filler would likely work quite well with your designs.

I look forward to seeing you in the Custom pen artist group.


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## BradG (Jul 20, 2015)

Thanks Bryan, Darrin


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