# Definition of kitless?



## Woodchipper (Jun 24, 2017)

I've seen the term "kitless" many times.  Could you penturners give me a simple definition on the word?  Thanks.  
No word with more than three syllables. :tongue:


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## Dalecamino (Jun 24, 2017)

A functioning pen made from parts you've turned or created yourself, rather than the parts you buy in a kit.


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## rd_ab_penman (Jun 24, 2017)

A true "Kitless" requires making all metal pen components with the exception of the ink refill and fountain pen nib.

Les


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## duncsuss (Jun 24, 2017)

It means different things to different people. Some call it kitless if the only purchased components are the "nib/feed/housing" unit, the ink delivery mechanism, and the clip. Others exclude the clip.



rd_ab_penman said:


> A true "Kitless" requires making all metal pen components with the exception of the ink refill and fountain pen nib.



So far nobody has told me that the pens I make with a purchased clip are "not true kitless" pens (which is lucky, or my entry in last year's bash would have been disqualified.)

I am about to start making clips myself though -- not to satisfy a definition, but because I'd like to use my own designs.


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## leehljp (Jun 24, 2017)

. . . therefore - does "Kitless" only refer to 
1. fountain pens, 
and
2. ball points that do not have retracting "Refills"?


In other words, "Kitless" does not allow for a transmission for moving the refill in and out? Seems to me that it should.

That said, it really doesn't matter that much to the maker. I can make clips, and other parts, but I can't make transmissions.


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## Woodchipper (Jun 24, 2017)

Thanks to all for your help.  I'm still learning as a beginner.  Would be a while before I tackle something kitless.


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## bmachin (Jun 24, 2017)

How many angels can dance on the head of a pin? :biggrin::biggrin:

Let the journey down the road to obfuscation (sorry, that was 4 syllables) begin:

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f14/has-kitless-outlived-its-usefulness-99298/
When is a kit less pen.....kit less? - International Association of Penturners
http://www.penturners.org/forum/f56/what-constitutes-kitless-141782/

And many more where that came from.  

All good answers above, Just don't take any of this too seriously.  Just do things in a way that satisfies you.

Bill


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## Dalecamino (Jun 24, 2017)

Woodchipper said:


> Thanks to all for your help.  I'm still learning as a beginner.  Would be a while before I tackle something kitless.



Don't be intimidated. Jump right in, and have some fun from a different approach. There are a bunch of videos on youtube now. You might need a tap & die set, or a few of a certain size. FWIW!


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## stuckinohio (Jun 24, 2017)

Chuck, those finials are beautiful! (off topic sorta...)


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## Woodchipper (Jun 24, 2017)

Don't worry, Bill. I'll ask one of my grandkids the meaning of the 4 syllable word.
Again, thanks to all.


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## duncsuss (Jun 24, 2017)

leehljp said:


> . . . therefore - does "Kitless" only refer to
> 1. fountain pens,
> and
> 2. ball points that do not have retracting "Refills"?



Hank, I'm so used to making fountain pens that I didn't think beyond that genre -- although I have made a couple of click-action ballpoints, so I shouldn't have overlooked them.

I'd consider a ballpoint pen kitless if it used a clicker mechanism or transmission which is screwed into threads the maker cut herself/himself (in other words, not into a press-fit coupler like the ones in kits). I wouldn't expect the springs to be homemade, but I think the nose cone should be.

Rollerballs are usually built along similar lines to a fountain pen -- and again, I'd expect the nose cone to be home-made.

YMMV, IMHO, JM2C, etc.


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## bmachin (Jun 24, 2017)

Not really appropriate to the thread, but I seem to want to get this plug in 3 or 4 times a year.  Get a copy of "The Pen Turner's Bible" by Richard Kleinhenz.  It will ease you from a straight kit to a full kitless in easy steps.  Available at Amazon and probably lots of other places as well.  Here is the Amazon link:

https://www.amazon.com/Pen-Turners-...85&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=the+penturners+bible

Bill


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## Woodchipper (Jun 24, 2017)

Thanks, Bill.  I think Woodcraft has it.  Will check at my local store.  Maybe I can go in without spending a lot of $$$$$.


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## magpens (Jun 24, 2017)

If you spend a few hours browsing around hardware stores that have large, in bulk selections of bolts, nuts, plumbing fittings, compressed air fittings, etc., you will probably get some mental stimulation in the direction of a kitless pen.

Oh, by the way, I disagree with the requirement that you have to tap some threads before you are allowed to call it kitless. . A glued-in finial is allowable in my book !

How about a few nuts and washers of progressively increasing size (glued together of course) to make the nib section ?

Then all you need is a spring (perhaps) and a tube (thick-walled drinking straw from a Dollar Store ?).

If you don't write much (or if you grew up in a throw-away society) you don't even need to allow for replacing the refill.

And who even needs a clip.

So there it is .... a kitless ballpoint.


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## duncsuss (Jun 25, 2017)

magpens said:


> Oh, by the way, I disagree with the requirement that you have to tap some threads before you are allowed to call it kitless. . A glued-in finial is allowable in my book !


You're right -- it isn't a requirement that you have to tap some threads. (But if there are some threads, you had to tap at least one half of the matching pair yourself :biggrin

No threads: Kurt Hertzog makes a very nice kitless pen that uses a blank for the barrel, a piece of Corian for the nose cone, a brass tube and an ink refill. The nose cone is a tight slip fit inside the brass tube. By drilling a step inside the nose cone, and sneaking up on the correct depth hole in the barrel, the refill is held tight.


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