# Question: shipping to France



## pilot1022 (Oct 16, 2007)

I have a request to ship 5-6 pen blanks to France, can you answer these questions , Whats the best way to ship with the least hassle, less cost and what way do you use when shipping to europe?


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## ed4copies (Oct 16, 2007)

USPS,

Those are going to be expensive blanks.

Careful, UPS (United Parcel) charges on both ends, so try to avoid using them.


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## ed4copies (Oct 16, 2007)

IT is a hassle, but forms are all available on-line at USPS.gov or .com (both) and you get 5% discount doing it on-line.  BUT, you still have to drop it off at the post office so they can tell you are not a terrorist.


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## pilot1022 (Oct 16, 2007)

Ok ed I under USPS is the probley the way to go Can I do it in a international Flatrate envolope? and Do I have to have the shipment inspected before sealing it up?


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## ed4copies (Oct 16, 2007)

NO, you can't use a flat rate envelope - according to the rules.

No, they don't have to inspect.

HOWEVER, YOUR post office MAY allow the flat rate envelope.  The regs say it can't be more than .25 inches thick, but MANY post offices ignore this.

Pen blanks will penetrate the flat rate env. 'cardboard'.  If you use this, try to put something around the blanks to keep the corners from being so sharp.  Of course, this will add size and weight and make the Post Office even PISSIER about their envelope size.


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## jcollazo (Oct 16, 2007)

Here's the link for the USPS page for France. Try the First Class International heading. A 16oz box is only $10.40. 

http://pe.usps.gov/text/imm/fh_005.htm

As far sealing the box, If you have a printed address label with postage (Paypal shipping or Endicia) the box can be sealed. Don't forget to put the "green form" (USPS from CN22) on the box or it will show up on your doorstep the next day. DAMHIKT


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## pilot1022 (Oct 16, 2007)

Ed, so I should use the FR box right?


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## ed4copies (Oct 16, 2007)

JOe's 16 oz box sounds like a good choice, if you stay under a pound.

The FR Box SHOULD go without objection - although at MY post office NOTHING goes without objection!!!!


A few of my recent favorites as I tried to mail something:
"DO you know every time the gas goes up a cent, it costs US 3 million dollars a DAY????"  Postage was ONLY raised TWO CENTS the last time, we can't make ends meet that WAY!!!!


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## ed4copies (Oct 16, 2007)

Oh, and Joe - ANY NUMBER of things can make it show up on YOUR porch.  The USPS seems unable to understand that I want it OVERSEAS.  I could have LEFT it on MY porch, WITHOUT their help!!![:0][:0][:0][:0]


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## skiprat (Oct 16, 2007)

I'm not too familiar with your postal system, but I have recieved 
'USPS International Flat Rate Envelopes' here in the UK. they have been delivered straight to my door without any inspection or charges applied. []
I have also recieved lighter parcels, but in <b>boxes</b> that have cost me dearly.[]

I am starting to think that if the postman can carry it and fit it in your letter box then it should be no problem. But if it's in a box, it attracts the attention of the customs men and incurs additional clearing and delivery charges. I have trawled the UK customs rules, but I found them far too confusing for me to understand.
I have also found that the less professionally the package appears to be packed and labelled, the less chance it draws attention.

I really wish that this topic could go much further and some of the boffins would comment. It is often seen here that items for sale or auction etc are restricted to USA, and vice versa. 
For an example, I sent a parcel to Canada at the same time as someone else from UK. Coincedentally, our parcels had very similar weight (10kg) however, the recipient got mine for no extra costs but was apparently really stung hard for the other one. 

I believe that if the IAP wants to really be international then this should be a topic/forum on its own. I'm not advocating trying to con our way around the systems, but to know up front what we should expect to pay to send and when we will need to pay to recieve.
The IAP is now massive, there MUST be someone who knows the rules.

I do know for a fact that simply marking a package as a gift, rarely works.[] Nearly a year ago, I paid Â£38 to recieve my 'mug-o-blanks'
Jeff had very clearly marked it as a gift. 

I am about to send another parcel to USA and I REALLY don't want the recipient to have to pay anything. Any ideas?


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## pilot1022 (Oct 16, 2007)

Skiprat, Thanks for your comments. I think, I opened a can of worms here. I like the idea of Ed's post of labeling the box "salesman samples" for the custom people, it must have worked for him. 
Over the years I have heard so many horror stories aBout shipping from one country to another, and all the confusing rules and regulations I think it comes down to this, the people that handle the postal and customs packages if they had a good day or a good night then your package goes thru , if they did not then you get screwed.[8] All comes down to the mood there in. [}][}]


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## ed4copies (Oct 16, 2007)

I send and receive quite a number of samples.  

Since the "going rate" for customs seems to be between 5 and 10%, a package that contains up to $50 really isn't worth their trouble, anyhow.

When I get the 150kg shipments, it makes sense to have to pay customs.


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## skiprat (Oct 16, 2007)

Ed, I will hopefully be recieving a parcel from you and Dawn soon. Just for the exercise, please mark it as samples and put the value at $50. I'll take the blow from customs and post what it costs.
( If it has not already been sent)

I would love to hear experiences from others on this subject.


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## ed4copies (Oct 16, 2007)

Careful, Skippy.

Somebody posted the other day that customs hit them for $25 (I think it was Canada tho') for a package that was e-bay $15 purchase.

If they goof, to whom do you complain???????


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## Rudy Vey (Oct 16, 2007)

I just shipped several priority international mail boxes with just a bit over 1 lbs weight to Sweden, England, Belgium and Germany. The cost is $24. If the weight is not over 1 lbs, the cost is $20. It will take approx 6-10 business days. The priority flat rate box is $37.
Faster is Express mail international, approx $10 more and should be there in 7 day. The fastest is Global Express, and you can go to USPS website to find the proper rate. 
First class international is the cheapest, but nobody in the post office will give you an estimate how long it will take. It may go by ship and can take up to 6-8 weeks (I have my experience with shipment to Germany that way, and i would not do it again).


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## Darley (Oct 17, 2007)

Tom this International shipping conversation as been raise some time ago and I don't think it might be different for shipping to OZland, do a search on International shipping, you may have your answer


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## its_virgil (Oct 17, 2007)

I was told that International First Class goes by air and that there is no "surface" shipping with the new reg changes....no economy shipping which was surface.

I routinely ship to England using the International Priority Flat rate envelope with a priority box inside for $11.60. It has never been rejeced by the postoffice. I know this procedure has been discussed heatedly on prior occassions but I will continue to ship this way as long as possible. I can find no regulations where it is stated that the flat rate envelop has to be .25 inches thick or less. Where did you find that reg Ed?
Do a good turn daily!
Don


> _Originally posted by Rudy Vey_
> <br />
> First class international is the cheapest, but nobody in the post office will give you an estimate how long it will take. It may go by ship and can take up to 6-8 weeks (I have my experience with shipment to Germany that way, and i would not do it again).


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## ed4copies (Oct 17, 2007)

Believe me, Don, I LOVE your way.

I will look up the reg this afternoon, but if YOUR post office does NOT know about it, DON'T tell them!!!!!!!!!!!

There is NO uniformity in the USPS, one branch operates completely differently from another.  My local (at home) small-town will take nearly ANYTHING - but they are never open when I'm at home.  During business hours, I have to deal with Racine (60000 pop and falling), who complains about lack of business then tells me my package is NOT done RIGHT, so they CAN'T take it.  I, of course, inform them that the proper word is "won't", not "can't", because others "can", then the arguments start and the postal regs get dragged out, etc.

Amazingly, they are cooperative on international, I think because THEY don't KNOW any of the procedures.  Businesses don't ship USPS overseas!!


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## DCBluesman (Oct 17, 2007)

Let's face it, the US Postal Service isn't always consistent in its practices from one service center to the next, but, there are published regulations.  The following is from the May 2007 International Mailing Manual.   





> 230 Priority Mail International
> 231 Description
> 231.1 General
> With the exception of the flat-rate envelope, Priority Mail International is a parcel service. Written correspondence having the nature of current and personal correspondence is not permitted in Priority Mail International parcels, but may be sent in the Priority Mail International flat-rate envelope.
> ...



The entire IMM can be found here. http://pe.usps.com/cpim/ftp/pubs/pub51/pub51.pdf

Here is the Priority Mail International pricing information from the IMM.  





> Flat-rate Box
> There is a flat-rate box option â€” $23 for Canada and Mexico, and $37 for all
> other countries. Customers who pay for postage online or through authorized
> postage vendors are entitled to a 5-percent discount.
> ...



Fortunately, my post office seems to know the rules, but if ours does not, print the references out and let your postmaster know you will file a complaint with the Postmaster General.  Good luck!


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## ed4copies (Oct 17, 2007)

Thanks for your help, Lou.

But there is another section of the NEW (which may be the ones you site) regs that specifically says the depth of the envelope.  Up until this was published, I was able to argue from an internal directive of the USPS saying the envelope could not be ALTERED, but as long as the contents fit, it was ok.  They cleared this up in the newer language.

My postmaster said, pretty much, "GOOD LUCK" if I reported his actions BEFORE the new clarification, NOW, I just avoid that location with questionable items.


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## pilot1022 (Oct 17, 2007)

I went to my post office with the pen blanks in hand and a flat rate envelope and asked the cost to France. I was advised to reinforce the envelope with shipping tape ( the envelope was still open ) and fill out and attach Customs form PS 2976 and said I could print out the $11.00 shipping label and thats all there is to it. I am one happy camper. [][]


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## DCBluesman (Oct 17, 2007)

> _Originally posted by ed4copies_
> <br />Thanks for your help, Lou.
> 
> But there is another section of the NEW (which may be the ones you site) regs that specifically says the depth of the envelope.  Up until this was published, I was able to argue from an internal directive of the USPS saying the envelope could not be ALTERED, but as long as the contents fit, it was ok.  They cleared this up in the newer language.
> ...



I'd love for a postal official to find that section for us .  My quotes are from  





> Mailing Standards of the United States Postal Service
> IMM Issue 34 - International Mail Manual
> <u><b>May 14, 2007, Updated With Postal Bulletin Revisions Through October 11, 2007</b></u>
> PSN 7610-02-000-9904


 which is available online at http://pe.usps.gov/text/imm/welcome.htm


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## Darley (Oct 17, 2007)

Do we have a Postmaster or a person working in post office among us? ( meaning IAP group ) he could explain the how to


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## its_virgil (Oct 17, 2007)

Our two post office centers are always crowded....long lines and half of the windows open. It is not unusual to wait in line for 15 - 20 minutes. I have started going to the local university post office...drive right up...walk right in...pay and gone in 5 minutes or less. The post-mistress is nice, knows the regs, and is a pleasure with which to do business. She need to do training for the other postal clerks around town. 
Do a good turn daily1
Don


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## drayman (Oct 17, 2007)

i just got a package from the states 10/17/07. it was posted 10/09/07
global priority mail flat rate envelope. postage was $11.00 total value inside $20.00. so for me that was quick 8 days incl a sat and sun. regards colin.


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## maxwell_smart007 (Oct 17, 2007)

I always find it odd that people in the UK, Europe, and Australia can get packages from the states much, much quicker than we can in Canada.  My record is about 10 days, door to door, but the average is closer to three weeks to get anything delivered.

Must be our customs...Canadian customs is very slow - unlike the US which is primarily interested in protecting its citizens from dangerous packages, our customs is interested in taxes - slows down the process! 

But boy, it's nice to get something in the mail!  I love non-bills!


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## ed4copies (Oct 18, 2007)

I shipped a package to Canada in early October, cleared your customs on Oct 12, the "receiver" had moved so I got the package back.  LAST WEEK. An entire month shot.  If they couldn't find him (and customs paperwork has a phone number for the "receiver" on it), why did they hold on to the package for so long???

Reshipped to new address, but I left the original packaging on it (inside a new package, properly addressed - I hope), cause if I were the "receiver", I wouldn't buy this story!![][][]


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## Geo in Winnipeg (Oct 18, 2007)

Ed, I'm not the customer but I would believe your story. I have waited for up to 4 weeks (after the US shipping stamp) for packages (priority flat rate) from the US. In that case I could make out a smudged stamp from customs in Toronto - it was 3 days after the US mailing date - so guess where it was for the next 3+ weeks? I really don't think they try to find someone - they just send it back. Actually consider yourself lucky it didn't just 'get lost'. Packages from the US (for me) average 2 1/2 weeks if customs assesses taxes and adds their sticker - If no taxes then the average is 1 1/2 weeks. Not bad, a whole week to attach a small computer generated form and send it on it way.[!]


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## Darley (Oct 18, 2007)

Geeess what a RED TAPE you got in Canada, I didn't know this look like your custom is on the $$$$$$$


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## maxwell_smart007 (Oct 18, 2007)

Geo, you must get stuff sooner because you're in Winnipeg...I find it takes even longer here.

I'm only two hours away from you, but just over the provincial border, technically, which means that everything comes from Toronto by truck through Thunder Bay...which is a hellacious trip at the best of times!


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## Geo in Winnipeg (Oct 18, 2007)

You mean there are people in Canada that get stuff faster than me?? I thought I was the slowest. Actually the recent CS group buy wasn't bad - 12 calendar days. Too bad I got hit with taxes though.[]


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## maxwell_smart007 (Oct 18, 2007)

Yeah, George, the taxes seem to be hit or miss...

BUT luckily, every single solitary time I've been taxed by customs on a shipment, they've messed up on the calculations somewhere, or the shipper mislabeled the package...and thirty percent of the time, I'm able to appeal it back to Canada Customs and get my taxes refunded...but it takes about a month for them to process the paperwork!  

Hey, speaking of Winnipeg - are you going to the Canadian Woodworker tool sale this weekend?


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## Geo in Winnipeg (Oct 18, 2007)

Unfortunately I've never been able to get anything back from them. I'm just thankful they don't hit every package. I went to their tool sale last year but there wasn't that much I was interested in (or could afford). I'm not sure whether I'll go this year.


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