# Fire Pistons



## jskeen

Ok, I'll toss this one out here too and see if anybody has anything to add.  Anybody made these before?  My first couple couldn't seem to generate enough pressure to get up to temp.  I think it has to do with the precision of the hole and how the gasket fits, but might be wrong.  Anyway, they sorta piqued my interest and thought I might pass it along and see if it bites anybody else.  

Here's a link for some "what is it" info.

http://www.wildersol.com/


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## rhahnfl

I'd never seen one of those before. They look like it would be something neat to turn though.


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## LEAP

That's cool, I saw these on a documentary about Austrailian bushmen. They have been making them without power tools for centuries so I don't imagine the tolerances are that critical.


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## jclark58

I saw one of those used by Les Stroud on and episode of Survivorman on the Discovery Channel or the Science Channel.  I never really considered making one myself, but I'm going to give it a shot now.

Jason


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## Aderhammer

Did you put a gasket on it? either rubber or wrapped string


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## leehljp

WOW! I have got to make me one of those. I know what my son in law is going to get for his birthday!


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## slick

the wrapped string gasket works best for me, they're easy to make and a lot of fun. The gasket is key though.


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## CaptG

Is the end of the compression shaft hollowed out a bit and does it hold tinder?


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## MesquiteMan

Someone help a fellow out here!  Are there any plans or cross sections that show how they work?  I am having a hard time getting my mind around how it works.  Any help??


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## jcollazo

Here's a link that may help you out:
http://www.onagocag.com/piston.html


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## its_virgil

http://www.firepiston.com/
Do a good turn daily!
Don


> _Originally posted by MesquiteMan_
> 
> Someone help a fellow out here!  Are there any plans or cross sections that show how they work?  I am having a hard time getting my mind around how it works.  Any help??


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## stevers

Wow, that's wild. I've never seen anything like it. And look at the prices they are getting. Holly crap.


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## R2

Looks like we are all just fire bugs at heart.[}]


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## MikeInMo

Looks cool.  

For some reason I am visualizing someone turning one of these and successfully testing it while they are still in their shop standing in a pile of tinder.  [:0]


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## mick

Wow! That's amazing! My son is very active in frontier camping with his church. They make all their own stuff just as it was made in frontier times. This is something I'm definitely going to make him.


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## jclark58

I turned one tonight out of some scrap Chechen I had laying around.  I wrapped the shaft with some waxed twine and I think I have a pretty good seal but no fire yet.  I think I need better tinder.  Several of the sites say to use tinder fungus, or char cloth.  I may try to find some punky wood, I'm sure I have some laying around here somewhere.

Photos coming soon I hope.

Jason


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## Jarheaded

We used these in survival training, but when we were in the field we were issued magnesium /steel packs and matches. They should be easy to make, but try a rubber o-ring for a seal instead the twine. For tinder, we use a little bit of charred cotton and dumped the ember into a cottonball that was saturated with vaseline. It will light the wettest wood you can find. If someone gets one working, please post it as I would like to make one for myself and some for the family.
Johnnie


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## penodr

Another good source of easy to get tinder is dryer lint. That stuff burns like crazy and should work well.


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## rherrell

I wonder if this is where Mr. Diesel got the idea for his engine?


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## Sylvanite

> _Originally posted by rherrell_
> 
> I wonder if this is where Mr. Diesel got the idea for his engine?


There are some reports that Rudolph Diesel did indeed get the inspiration for his engine after seeing a fire piston.

Regards,
Eric


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## richstick1

My guess is that this is exactly where the Diesel engine came from.  I plan on trying to make one - very cool, fun, unique idea that would serve a good purpose.  Should be a good "name this turning" subject for my next AAW meeting


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## mick

Got another question about making a fire piston. For those of you that have made one and got it to work. How much space is left between the bottom of the "piston" and the bottom of the "receiver"? I'm making one for my son and after looking at pictures and some rough drawings I'm sure the amount of space left when the piston is plunged is probably the critical part of this. Any help is greatly appreciated


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## smitty

Take a look at this, it might help.  I think I will try and make one.

http://wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/fire/firepiston/index.html


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## johncrane

Now my brain is ticking again yeh very interesting stuff!


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## workinforwood

I'm too busy but totally intrigued too.  I read this in the original tip off website..but what does it mean?

"The new TinderLite Fire Piston Pen is the only device of its kind. Like the other TinderLite products it features both boal based, compression fire starting and high temperature spark based fire starting capability by means of the ferro rod housed inside the tail cap." 

I'm curious how much void is in the bottom and what is "boal based" and what's a ferro rod?  Is the lack of ferro rod the reason people are having a hard time getting theirs to ignite?  My guess as to what boal based is is that the rod that is being pushed in has a hollow in the end.  If that is a hollow, is that where the tinder goes, and is the ferro rod behind the hollow?  If the tinder goes in that hollow, I'm guessing there is no space left, the shaft goes all the way to the bottom.


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## rhahnfl

I definitely want to make one out of wood. If I can find a good set of plans...


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## bkc

I'm interested in trying to make one too. The rod, from a picture I've seen leaves a 3/16 gap between the end of the rod and the bottom. As to how deep the tinder hole is in the rod bottom, I'd guess not to deep.But start shallow, you can always bore out more if need be.....


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## txbob

For really good tinder, search Google and You Tube for how to make charcloth. Cotton cloth, an Altoid box, and a good heat source are all that's needed.

txbob


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## jcollazo

> _Originally posted by rhahnfl_
> 
> I definitely want to make one out of wood. If I can find a good set of plans...



here's a link with a couple of drawings, measurements and a lot info
http://www.onagocag.com/piston.html


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## rhahnfl

Yeah... that might be enough to get it going. Going to have to give it a shot I think.


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## Chasper

My previous obsession, before it became pen turning, was flint knapping.  Over in PaleoPlanet (a primative skill site, think stone age IAP) there is always quite a lot of discussion about fire pistons, here is a recent thread http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/2748
I see fire pistons for sale at the knapping events.  Last year I did a couple turnings for a paleo arts guy who carved the outsides of them and finished them off into FPs.  The turning is the easy part, the final percision fitting is most of the work.

Look also for info on making charcloth and finding/perparing dried moss and other tinder.


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## Mather323

I want in the game, the first one with the ember wins!


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## mwenman

> _Originally posted by bkc_
> 
> I'm interested in trying to make one too. The rod, from a picture I've seen leaves a 3/16 gap between the end of the rod and the bottom. As to how deep the tinder hole is in the rod bottom, I'd guess not to deep.But start shallow, you can always bore out more if need be.....



Don't recall where I read this at, but I do remember that the hole in the end of the piston where you place your tinder was only approximately 1/8" deep.

The 3/16" gap between the piston and the bottom of the chamber seems about right. The receiver bottom can be either flat or slighly domed inside.   

Want to try and get one made as well.


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## tomahawk54

Ok, now I'm hooked on the idea of a fire piston too. but I'm having trouble finding a way to polish the bore of the receiver. any ideas?


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## bkc

How about once you drill the receiver out you tape sandpaper to the bit and sand with it. Or you could just use a dowel......


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## Freethinker

> _Originally posted by tomahawk54_
> 
> Ok, now I'm hooked on the idea of a fire piston too. but I'm having trouble finding a way to polish the bore of the receiver. any ideas?



Why not glue a large brass pen barrel (or any appropriately sized brass/steel,plastic tube) inside the wood receiver?

It would provide very straight, smooth sides. I think that's the way I'm going to try it.


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## johncrane

lam thinking the same as you Dan![}]


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## woodman928

Hey Dan wheres about in Missouri are you.
Jay
Republic MO


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## smitty

It works.  I took a 3.5 inch piece of 7mm brass tube and pluged one end with the top of a slim line pen.  I then took a 1/4 inch dow rod and sanded it down so it would slide into the brass tube, drilled a 1/8 inch hole 1/8 of an inch deep in one end. From that end I cut a grove in the dow rod 5/16 inch up. I used a #60 O-ring.  

I lubed the O-ring with vasolene, put some char cloth in the hole started the dow rod in the brass tube and slaped it, when I pulled the dow rod out the char cloth was glowing red. It has worked everytime so far. Now all I have to do is install the brass tube in a nice turned piece of wood and turn a piece for the top of the dow rod.

Smitty


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## les-smith

Way to go Smitty. 

Now we need some pictures.


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## rhahnfl

Yes we do need pictures and some instruction too for those of us slow on the uptake... say a tutorial?


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## woodman928

You know the rules if no pictures it didnt happen.
Jay


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## woodman928

Check out the link that Chasper gave us it has a great tutorial on it and its a real fun site also a lot of good info on fire pistons and how to trouble shoot problems.
Jay


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## smitty

I was afraid you would want some pictures.  If I can figure out how to post them and get the LOML to take them I'll see what I can do.

As for a tutorial I'm just about illiterate.

Thanks:  Smitty


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## Gary Max

Smiity we got plenty of long winded folks that use words I have never heard of---much less know what they mean. Heck I have fallen asleep trying to read thier post. Give it a shot it will help some of us folks out[8D].


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## Gary Max

Ok lets try this--------what the heck is Char Cloth---can I buy it at a hardware store???????


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## DCBluesman

Nope...you MAKE it.  http://www.rogueturtle.com/articles/charcloth.php


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## GoodTurns

heat but no flames....yet.  need to make a longer stroke.

cut a tenon on a 5/16 dowel rod, put on old slimline bushing on for a cup, 3/8 brass tube inside, bit of oiled twine for a seal, dryer lint for a fuel...I think I need more dilithium crystals!


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## rhahnfl

Hey that's nice... I like the old bushing as the fuel cup. Wonder how much more stroke you'll need?


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## woodman928

http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/2748
Hey guys Im a telling ya, ya need to go to this site and look around it has all the info you will need to make them work and they will tell you how to make char cloth too. The length of the stroke dosent seem to be that big a deal but the the depth of the tube to the plunger must be right.
Jay


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## GoodTurns

only a 2 1/2 inch stroke...screwed up drilling.  It has a 3/8 gap on the bottom per one of the instructions I read.  Has a real tight grip "POP"s when you pull the piston back out.  Gotta make some charcloth....


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## smitty

I tried dryer lint at first and it would not light, I was just about ready to dump it all in the trash.  A friend gave me some char cloth and it worked the first time.


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## Armacielli

how it works goes back to some old chemistry laws I memorized
Boyle's law:
when temperature within a system is constant pressure and volume are inversly porportional
Charles' Law:
when pressure within a system is constant temperature and volume are directly porportional 
I forget the last guy's name's law (this one actually applies to the fire piston):
when volume within a system is constant temperature and pressure are directly porportional, ie, pressure shoots up so does the temperature 
(this is also why your tire pressure drops a bit when it starts to get cold in the winter)


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## Armacielli

I have an idea how to get the indide of the hole polished and smooth: what happens when you're drilling a pen blank and the bit is in there too long? it gets hot and it burns a little bit leaving a "fire polished" surface... just an idea.


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## fritz64

to get a polished hole.  drill 1/16 under size then drill with very sharp on size bradpoint drill bit.   that is howw i got nice polished holes when i was working.   fritz64


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## johnny1211

Armacielli, As a former teacher of chemistry, I'm surprised you forgot the last guy's name as it was most easily remembered by my students...Gay-Lussac. Now, I would have been impressed if you talked about moles. Anyway, that's neither here nor there. These things are pretty cool. I may have to try one.


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## Armacielli

> _Originally posted by johnny1211_
> 
> Armacielli, As a former teacher of chemistry, I'm surprised you forgot the last guy's name as it was most easily remembered by my students...Gay-Lussac. Now, I would have been impressed if you talked about moles. Anyway, that's neither here nor there. These things are pretty cool. I may have to try one.



I actually remembered his name from our gas-laws chapter, but I wasn't sure if it was he who was responsible for the third law or if he did something else in the chapter (I don't like to to give out information that makes me look intelligent if I'm not sure it's correct)
on another note how deep is the hole in the tube from opening to the bottom?


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## smitty

Here are two fire piston I got finished.  Turned them out of maple.  I use 7mm brass tube for the barrel and 1/4 inch brass rod for the piston.



Here are 4 barrel and pistons ready to go.




Smitty


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## Jarheaded

Smitty , are you selling the kits for those of us that are feeling shopping challenged (lazy) right now? Looks like you have done some nice work on the pistons and figured out all the sizing proat the blems. I could see these things selling at the scout meetings and at the survival schools that I work with.
Great job,
 Johnnie


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## laurie sullivan

yes I would be interested in a few of those kits. living in LA we carry survival kits in our cars for earthquakes. I would hate to caught on the wrong side of a downed freeway or out where I can't get back for a few days.

Laurie


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## johncrane

Smitty how good do they work mate!


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## smitty

These will usually light char cloth 90% of the time on the first stroke once you have the knack.  The first ones I made drove me crazy, I know have the o-ring seal figured out as to how tight it had to be to seal and still move free enough to work correctly.

I have never sold anything in kit form, Always a completed project. 
I figured up a price for Barrel, Piston, O-ring and some Char-Cloth and instructions made to the best of my ability.  The price for one kit would be $22.00 this would include shipping anywhere in the United States.  As for shipping out side the United States I have never done any but I'm sure we can figure something out.

Thanks Smitty


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## Gary Max

I am selling these kits ---listing is over at Most Valued Vendors-------


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## Gary Max

If you read through the post there is all kinds of info on 
"How To build" and some very cool links.


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## Mather323

Thanks Gary, look forward to sharing this information with my Scouts! [^]


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## Gary Max

Thanks---I am trying to find the time where I can sit down and make some of them myself. I have a really big show coming up and that's what I have to work on. I was shocked when I saw what these sell for on ebay.


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