# When did Chrome plating become high end???



## OKLAHOMAN (Sep 4, 2015)

I ask this because as I have started to deal with manufactures overseas & some of them have presented component sets to me as high end with chrome plating.
As soon as I tell them no I would want that component set in Rhodium or Black titanium the price increases 30-45%. I ask them why the large increase and the reply.........now get this "Mr. Robaldo Rhodium is a much more expensive plating and is what all higher priced pens would sell for. NOW MADAM WHY DID YOU TELL ME JUST LESS THAN A HOUR AGO THAT THE COMPONENT IS A HIGH END COMPONENT  & YOU WILL MAKE THAT COMPONENT IN CHROME PLATING. 
Her answer was to give me a cheaper price. The difference in wholesale pricing from the manufacturer between chrome and Rhodium is substantial.
Go into any Wal-Mart, Staples, or Office depot and you'll find Papermates for less than $5 in chrome hanging on a pegboard rack, in Staples and Office Depot their higher end pens (granted they have just a few)are in locked cases. 
Would you buy your wife a diamond ring mounted in a Chrome band?
Don't get me wrong, I see nothing wrong with chrome plating on lower end components but not on what is considered top of the line.


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## thewishman (Sep 4, 2015)

Ironically, most of my customers don't care what the plating is. What makes it ironic is that my customers are higher-end jewelry stores. 

I don't consider chrome to be high-end, but they want something that is shiny to stay shiny. I may try some Jr. pens in chrome if the price difference were substantial.


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## edstreet (Sep 4, 2015)

Perhaps I need to do an expose investigation into chrome/rhodium as I did with 'sterling silver'


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## OKLAHOMAN (Sep 4, 2015)

thewishman said:


> Ironically, most of my customers don't care what the plating is. What makes it ironic is that my customers are higher-end jewelry stores.
> 
> I don't consider chrome to be high-end, but they want something that is shiny to stay shiny. I may try some Jr. pens in chrome if the price difference were substantial.



Cris, I'd be surprised if you'd ask them which would they prefer to talk to their customers about they would choose chrome


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## TonyL (Sep 4, 2015)

I don't know if chrome is high-end. However, It is my primary finish because of its versatility - followed by SS, then gun metal.


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## wood-of-1kind (Sep 4, 2015)

Best value for your 'plating' dollar in terms of durability and a nice look. Gold is yesterday's news and a lot of my clients prefer the understated look of chrome. Looks good on most blanks.


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## maxwell_smart007 (Sep 4, 2015)

I like chrome better than the 'high end' finishes - it's shiny, hard, and stays that way...

I don't upsell the plating, so having a shiny finish on a beautiful pen kit with a stunning blank is all the selling help I need...


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## ed4copies (Sep 4, 2015)

OKLAHOMAN said:


> thewishman said:
> 
> 
> > Ironically, most of my customers don't care what the plating is. What makes it ironic is that my customers are higher-end jewelry stores.
> ...



An old saying in sales, "Stop when you reach "Yes""!!

If you have a good relationship and you have found a price point you agree on, for a product you both find to match the quality you want, DON'T rock the boat!!!!

I've always marvelled at the conversations where "ONLY rhodium will do!!"   But, the data of the industry shows that Chrome slimlines are still the number one selling pen.  If you "grow up" being comfortable with chrome and it never lets you down (something that is not true of many platings), what will motivate you to change??

My opinions have evolved as I learn from my customers, and the information I can derive from other industry sources.  So, if you like chrome,  visit us---we like chrome too!!  After learning the rhodium is less than half a percent of the pen and after seeing the additional cost of rhodium, chrome is shining brighter, every day!!


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## Dan Masshardt (Sep 4, 2015)

I guess it's all subjective really.  Is a high end car a Lexus or a Maserati?   Average joe prob considers them both fancy cars.  

Chrome is the Lexus and rhodium...


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## edstreet (Sep 4, 2015)

ed4copies said:


> An old saying in sales, "Stop when you reach "Yes""!!  If you have a good relationship and you have found a price point you agree on, for a product you both find to match the quality you want, DON'T rock the boat!!!!  I've always marvelled at the conversations where "ONLY rhodium will do!!"   But, the data of the industry shows that Chrome slimlines are still the number one selling pen.  If you "grow up" being comfortable with chrome and it never lets you down (something that is not true of many platings), what will motivate you to change??  My opinions have evolved as I learn from my customers, and the information I can derive from other industry sources.  So, if you like chrome,  visit us---we like chrome too!!  After learning the rhodium is less than half a percent of the pen and after seeing the additional cost of rhodium, chrome is shining brighter, every day!!



Question. Please show everyone this proof that rhodium is less than half a percent.   That's not what the plating companies are telling me.  

I also want to see this alleged industry data. We all know that 'data' can be skewed and twisted to make it mean anything we want.  

Not saying it does not exist but I have yet to see any proof of these claims. I also love to be wrong to.  


Perhaps to we should ask our resident expert.    ....   BradG this info and see what he can input. Help debunk the urban legends and myths flying out there and all of uses heard plenty.


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## ed4copies (Sep 4, 2015)

Gee Ed.  You often quote "anonymous sources" and "industry experts", I'm amazed you haven't talked or emailed these same sources!!

Perhaps they say more to me, since I am placing significant orders--what was YOUR last "big buy of pen components"??


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## edstreet (Sep 4, 2015)

So you are unable to provide much needed info to the public.  


  I have several numbers of platters I will be calling this upcoming week and posting results here. A la Sterling silver thread.


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## ed4copies (Sep 4, 2015)

Not unable, UNWILLING!

I see no need to try to placate you--I used to do that, I see the results.  I learn from my experiences.


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## mbroberg (Sep 4, 2015)

edstreet said:


> So you are unable to provide much needed info to the public.
> 
> 
> I have several numbers of platters I will be calling this upcoming week and posting results here. A la Sterling silver thread.



Maybe, if you are lucky, The Platters will sing "The Great Pretender" to you.  That would be quite appropriate.  Then, when your done listening to them you could contact some PLATERS, you know, the people who do PLATING


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## mbroberg (Sep 4, 2015)

Roy,

I don't consider chrome to be high end but it is a good seller for me.  It is a prety durable plating for the money and like others have said, if it shines than that is all some people really care about.  I do prefer chrome (silver color) over gold for a pen.


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## thewishman (Sep 4, 2015)

OKLAHOMAN said:


> thewishman said:
> 
> 
> > Ironically, most of my customers don't care what the plating is. What makes it ironic is that my customers are higher-end jewelry stores.
> ...




Roy, I'm upfront about the platings and provide full descriptions of each pen component for their salespeople. The store owners almost never care about the platings, they want shiny finishes that will stay shiny. I only sell pens with chrome, rhodium and titanium platings. I cannot give stainless steel away, and I will not offer any other platings. In nine years of sales, I have not had a plating failure that has been reported to me, I offer lifetime replacements.

In discussions with their salespeople and with their customers over the years, I cannot remember any customer asking about the plating. They want something of high-quality that will remain as shiny as when they purchased it.

I stopped offing wood pens with finishes (plexiglas or CA) because I could not guarantee their durability over time and use.


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## Smitty37 (Sep 4, 2015)

edstreet said:


> ed4copies said:
> 
> 
> > An old saying in sales, "Stop when you reach "Yes""!!  If you have a good relationship and you have found a price point you agree on, for a product you both find to match the quality you want, DON'T rock the boat!!!!  I've always marvelled at the conversations where "ONLY rhodium will do!!"   But, the data of the industry shows that Chrome slimlines are still the number one selling pen.  If you "grow up" being comfortable with chrome and it never lets you down (something that is not true of many platings), what will motivate you to change??  My opinions have evolved as I learn from my customers, and the information I can derive from other industry sources.  So, if you like chrome,  visit us---we like chrome too!!  After learning the rhodium is less than half a percent of the pen and after seeing the additional cost of rhodium, chrome is shining brighter, every day!!
> ...


*Please show every one proof that the plating companies are telling you something different.

* If you need "industry data" to prove that chrome is the most popular kit - trust people that sell the kits.  Chrome are my best sellers in every line I carry.  PSI says that 24K gold is their best selling slimline (and the slimline is still their best selling line) I'd venture a bet that they would say Chrome is their 2nd best seller.


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## Smitty37 (Sep 4, 2015)

OKLAHOMAN said:


> I ask this because as I have started to deal with manufactures overseas & some of them have presented component sets to me as high end with chrome plating.
> As soon as I tell them no I would want that component set in Rhodium or Black titanium the price increases 30-45%. I ask them why the large increase and the reply.........now get this "Mr. Robaldo Rhodium is a much more expensive plating and is what all higher priced pens would sell for. NOW MADAM WHY DID YOU TELL ME JUST LESS THAN A HOUR AGO THAT THE COMPONENT IS A HIGH END COMPONENT  & YOU WILL MAKE THAT COMPONENT IN CHROME PLATING.
> Her answer was to give me a cheaper price. The difference in wholesale pricing from the manufacturer between chrome and Rhodium is substantial.
> Go into any Wal-Mart, Staples, or Office depot and you'll find Papermates for less than $5 in chrome hanging on a pegboard rack, in Staples and Office Depot their higher end pens (granted they have just a few)are in locked cases.
> ...


Roy, you personally once told me when we were discussing this subject regarding marketing, that the value of Rhodium over chrome was that rhodium "sounded more high end" when presenting your reasons customers should buy a pen.  We had agreed that there was very little difference in look or brightness and that the average buyer would never know the difference unless you told them.


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## Smitty37 (Sep 4, 2015)

*Not sure what is being voted on*

Is this poll a Yes or No?  If I check a block am I saying yes?  If so how do I say no?  I understand what you are trying to learn Roy but I don't think you worded the poll right to get the answer.  While I might want to say I think Chrome can be high end - I might not be willing to pay over $35 for one but I can't do both.


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## alphageek (Sep 4, 2015)

Smitty37 said:


> Is this poll a Yes or No?  If I check a block am I saying yes?  If so how do I say no?  I understand what you are trying to learn Roy but I don't think you worded the poll right to get the answer.



I'm not exactly sure what Roy was hoping to et from this research poll, but you have hit the nail on one of two major problems with it.

Problem 1) 3 of the 4 choices are questions, 1 is a statement.   Most people are going to be confused how to answer and due to heavy interpretation their poll answers may not mean what they thought they answered.

Problem 2). The title is yet another question, and most of the initial reaction pat text is anti-chrome.  This will also bias the results and push things into other directions.


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## Smitty37 (Sep 4, 2015)

edstreet said:


> So you are unable to provide much needed info to the public.
> 
> 
> I have several numbers of platters I will be calling this upcoming week and posting results here. A la Sterling silver thread.


I hope your information is more accurate than what you posted in the sterling silver thread.  Where your interpretation of the law was totally wrong.  (I did tell you why in that thread).


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## OKLAHOMAN (Sep 4, 2015)

Damn all I asked was "when did chrome become high end" and Ed ,Ed and Mike turned it into my way and my knowledge is right your wrong. I didn't ask the percentage of rhodium in some manufactures plating, Mike , Ed and Ed if you have issues with each other take them the h331 somewhere else. 
Ed Brown by the way Ed Street might not have bought large quantities from suppliers but just this week I did to the tune of over 20 G's and that was the reason for the question in the first place as plating was the biggest hurtle so guess which plating 
I bought? Hint it wasn't rhodium as the main plating .
Now if any body has something objective please let's get back to the original question so 
I can bring to the market place what your wanting. I have no objection to chrome just calling it high end. There's room for Ford Fusion and Maserati


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## alphageek (Sep 4, 2015)

OKLAHOMAN said:


> Damn all I asked was "when did chrome become high end" ....... I have no objection to chrome just calling it high end. There's room for Ford Fusion and Maserati



Hmmm.. so your saying chrome is the fusion, not the Maserati?   I think there is those that would disagree.... How about a Mercedes Mclaren?  A Lamborghini Murcielago? A Ferrari 599? A Bentley Continental GT??

None of those make any sense for the super rich to relate to chrome... oh wait... maybe they do:  Chrome cars


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## TonyL (Sep 4, 2015)

I think, but I am not sure, that if i box is checked, it represents an affirmative answer to the verbiage to the right of the box. 

I think I understand what you mean Roy, and thanks for presenting the question, poll, whatever. .


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## ed4copies (Sep 4, 2015)

Roy,

I have learned to post in the "Exotics" forum if I want to attempt to control the content.
I respect your right to ask, please respect my right to answer on the "open" section of  IAP.  Believe me, I did not PM Edstreet, or anyone else,  to comment.


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## edstreet (Sep 4, 2015)

Smitty37 said:


> I hope your information is more accurate than what you posted in the sterling silver thread.  Where your interpretation of the law was totally wrong.  (I did tell you why in that thread).



That was ignored because you do not have a law degree but profess to be one in Canada and the U.S.  



Also that's not relevant to this thread on chrome and rhodium.  


Roy.  I guess the technical answer is when a salesperson is selling snake oil the low quality ingredients is "high quality".  In the grand scheme it may not technically be "high grade" but in the lower limited arena of market starvation and gluttony it suddenly becomes "high grade".   Marketing ploys and sales tactics makes all the difference in the world in that realm.  If said merchant is only peddling chrome then that will be "high grade".   As with physics and math we learn limits, min max on the scope of relevance for the equation given.  


As for marketing data goes I may have to pull out my excel sheet for some numbers but sadly none of those is related to chrome.  So if anyone does have raw numbers that is unmolested by sales and marketing ploys I would love to see hose, double blind data please.   


Also with my internet line down atm I am typin in my iPad via forum runner with a bad auto correct and so forth. It's always a huge laugh when someone can only contribute how sucky my typing is so thank you for the very large rounds of laughter had over the remark.  It's always a pleasure and treat to see how much people care by posting these things.


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## Chuck Key (Sep 4, 2015)

Dan Masshardt said:


> I guess it's all subjective really.  Is a high end car a Lexus or a Maserati?   Average joe prob considers them both fancy cars.
> 
> Chrome is the Lexus and rhodium...



Chromium would be the Maserati.


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## OKLAHOMAN (Sep 4, 2015)

While writing this Smitty and Dean chimed in and Smitty is right as far as look. In the venues that I used to sell in and my way of selling I did not sell chrome as I sold in high end art shows so I marketed my product as jewelry grade so plating was a marketing tool for me. In Classic Nib we also wanted to fill a nitch with higher end products but as time went by we have evolved into full service merchants and the reason for this post was to ask what the majority thought of non jewelry grade platings.
Dean sorry if you think I asked the wron questions


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## Smitty37 (Sep 4, 2015)

OKLAHOMAN said:


> Damn all I asked was "when did chrome become high end" and Ed ,Ed and Mike turned it into my way and my knowledge is right your wrong. I didn't ask the percentage of rhodium in some manufactures plating, Mike , Ed and Ed if you have issues with each other take them the h331 somewhere else.
> Ed Brown by the way Ed Street might not have bought large quantities from suppliers but just this week I did to the tune of over 20 G's and that was the reason for the question in the first place as plating was the biggest hurtle so guess which plating
> I bought? Hint it wasn't rhodium as the main plating .
> Now if any body has something objective please let's get back to the original question so
> I can bring to the market place what your wanting. I have no objection to chrome just calling it high end. There's room for Ford Fusion and Maserati


Roy, the problem is with the wording of the poll.  As I said earlier it defies answering.  

But so you will know my opinion - I do not think the plating is what makes a pen kit high end it is usually the intricate designs of the bands, caps etc so yes I can think of a high end kit in Chrome plating.  

BTW just for information I sell pen kits in Rhodium that are not high end so Rhodium does not automatically make a kit high end.  

No I would not personally pay more than $35 wholesale for a kit plated in Chrome but I would pay that much retail (if I were buying retail)

As to the reason that high end kits are going to chrome...my supplier has told me that the wholesale price of Rhodium Caballeros which are not high end will be double what I paid last time around the same for Rhodium Royales.  Rhodium is very high priced right now and is in very short supply also industrial uses have been growing - it is even higher priced than Platinum and I think we will be seeing a number of alternative plating choices.


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## ed4copies (Sep 4, 2015)

Smitty,

I am afraid there are only so many known manufacturers.  Dayacom has shown that "rhodium" can command a premium.  Everyone would like to enhance their profit, so if they can convince us "rhodium" is double the price, and we will buy it---why not??

I BELIEVE platinum would be just as "marketable" in the "high end art fairs".  But, we all HAD rhodium, so that is what we sold.  So, we made the bed that they (manufacturers) now are trying to "cash in on".   Let's see what happens if sales of "rhodium" plummet---will the price go down??

Who knows?


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## alphageek (Sep 4, 2015)

OKLAHOMAN said:


> Dean sorry if you think I asked the wron questions



I didn't say wrong questions... Just phrased wrong if you wanted others opinions.   You posted your bias and made the choices confusing.   This means you are going to be less likely to get answers that will be useful to you.

Oh.. and see my other post about chrome and the ultra rich... The chrome industry is HUGE - cars, car accessories, special edition Beats headphones, motorcyle parts and MUCH more.   You're biased based on YOUR history.  If you really wanted to know about what you might have missed you might want to open you mind to other possible valid answers.  If you don't, you'll end up like Mr Streets new sign - Too wrapped up in being right to listen to other answers.


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## OKLAHOMAN (Sep 4, 2015)

alphageek said:


> OKLAHOMAN said:
> 
> 
> > Damn all I asked was "when did chrome become high end" ....... I have no objection to chrome just calling it high end. There's room for Ford Fusion and Maserati
> ...



Wow I use an example and you post this, have you read any of my posts in this thread? I have never said chrome is bad. I have not said rhodium is better but there is a difference , a Ford Fusion for most of us is a better choice financially than a Maserati,Bently,Lamborghini but if only:bananen_smilies068::bananen_smilies051:
Chrome has it's place and Rhodium also has its place


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## Smitty37 (Sep 4, 2015)

ed4copies said:


> Smitty,
> 
> I am afraid there are only so many known manufacturers.  Dayacom has shown that "rhodium" can command a premium.  Everyone would like to enhance their profit, so if they can convince us "rhodium" is double the price, and we will buy it---why not??
> 
> ...


I don't think so Ed. I suspect that kit suppliers actually make a better ROI with chrome....


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## southernclay (Sep 4, 2015)

Well this went sideways quick. 

I didn't vote because I wasn't dead set on any option. However to answer the question the OP asked...Roy I don't see chrome as high end. I have to agree with you on being thrown off by the claim. I don't see it a low end either. 

I do think it is a fantastic plating option. The look, durability and price are all
Attractive to me.  I don't sell a ton of pens and won't be doing any shows so take it for what it's worth. I can see a high end art show or higher scale venues in general being able to use platings as a sales technique. I have yet to have anyone ask me about it. I have been able to sell stainless as a non played option that I feel customers liked. 

Ultimately I have felt there is a trust factor when someone is buying a pen from me. They trust the quality is there but do not necessarily question it. 

Hopefully that helps and gets on topic a bit.


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## edstreet (Sep 4, 2015)

Note to the general reader.  There seems to be vendor baiting and general anger coming out of the various vendor camps on this topic for some reason.  The vendor post to non-vendor post is obscene.


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## Smitty37 (Sep 5, 2015)

edstreet said:


> Note to the general reader.  There seems to be *vendor baiting* and general anger coming out of the various vendor camps on this topic for some reason.  The vendor post to non-vendor post is obscene.


Your post started it Ed.


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## OKLAHOMAN (Sep 5, 2015)

alphageek said:


> OKLAHOMAN said:
> 
> 
> > Dean sorry if you think I asked the wron questions
> ...



Once again where did I say one plating was a better plating. Different yes, have different uses yes, on a pen there is no difference in plating only in perceived value. I would guess if I told you a chrome plated Emperor was rhodium most would not  know the difference , they both would last,stay bright and give good service, the only difference is once again perceived value.


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## OKLAHOMAN (Sep 5, 2015)

TonyL said:


> I think, but I am not sure, that if i box is checked, it represents an affirmative answer to the verbiage to the right of the box.
> 
> I think I understand what you mean Roy, and thanks for presenting the question, poll, whatever. .


 
Tony, yes. I had no idea anyone would think otherwise, other than to stir the pot:frown:


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## jondavidj (Sep 5, 2015)

when I make a high end on, I prefer rhodium over chrome. This is my opinion. I prefer not to do any chrome unless it is a Sierra or something. I notice a difference. I believe, that rhodium does not scratch either. This is another plus for me. I hope I answered the question Roy, I wouldn't spend over $10 on anything chrome if I didn't have to and I would spend an extra couple of dollars to get rhodium.  I understand people don't have the same opinions as me.


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## edstreet (Sep 5, 2015)

Smitty37 said:


> Your post started it Ed.


     Assuming what you say is true does this mean you are not currently filling enough chrome kit orders but instead have to flame little ole me to pass the time???   I'm greatly flattered by your generous offer to entertain myself but I do not ask you to do that nor do I need your help.  As stated previously my concern was fabled legends about these two, chrome vs rhodium and the truth of the matter.  So far the facts have yet to be revealed and there seems to be more speculation and gossip going on than fact finding.  I personally like to see the detail and ignore he drama factory of the rest.


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## alphageek (Sep 5, 2015)

OKLAHOMAN said:


> Wow I use an example and you post this, have you read any of my posts in this thread? I have never said chrome is bad. I have not said rhodium is better but there is a difference , a Ford Fusion for most of us is a better choice financially than a Maserati,Bently,Lamborghini but if only:bananen_smilies068::bananen_smilies051:
> Chrome has it's place and Rhodium also has its place





OKLAHOMAN said:


> Once again where did I say one plating was a better plating. Different yes, have different uses yes, on a pen there is no difference in plating only in perceived value. I would guess if I told you a chrome plated Emperor was rhodium most would not  know the difference , they both would last,stay bright and give good service, the only difference is once again perceived value.



Oh, I've read ALL your posts...  And I never said anything about better plating, nor did I say you did.

I just pointed out an alternative viewpoint to your side that "chrome has its place" and "perceived value".   You seem stuck on that view and refuse to see that chrome can be high end.   So it goes back to if you are so convinced that chrome is the low end and that it has less perceived value, why did you bother to ask?  You appear to have your bias firmly in place.  That would make your posting of this thread more about bashing chrome than understanding it.  

As for your example of an Emperor... If most wouldn't know the difference (your words), are you TRULY convinced that chrome  would reduce the perceived value?   Maybe for you it would... I can guarantee you that for some it wouldn't matter.  Put a chrome Emperor out with the right material on the body and the words chrome OR rhodium may never have to be said - focus on the details, the beauty and the craftsmanship and the BODY of the pen and the pen still sells- because its an Emperor with a great body, not because it was or was not chrome.

Now, I have a feeling that you snorted,laughed, or something similar during your reading of the last paragraph Roy...And if so - no skin of my back. Unlike Street, I don't feel I have to be right.   You may be right... Maybe it matters...  But either way its better to LISTEN when you ask questions than hammer your opinion at those you ask questions of!


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## alphageek (Sep 5, 2015)

jondavidj said:


> when I make a high end on, I prefer rhodium over chrome. This is my opinion. *I prefer not to do any chrome unless it is a Sierra or something. *I notice a difference. I believe, that rhodium does not scratch either. This is another plus for me. I hope I answered the question Roy, *I wouldn't spend over $10 on anything chrome* if I didn't have to and I would spend an extra couple of dollars to get rhodium.  I understand people don't have the same opinions as me.



Jon... (the bolding above is mine)...  You sell a pen at almost 3x the above... and from your website: "Manufactured in Taiwan, and made exclusively, for Signature Pen Supply, the Jr. George II is made with the highest quality materials. The Antique Silver plating is unpolished Thick Chrome. "  

I'm confused by this.. if chrome is so bad and only good for < $10 or Sierra styled pens... Why then do you market a more expensive pen made from chrome?   And why bash chrome here if you claim "the highest quality materials?"    

I'm not trying to bash you as a vendor here.. Remember I'm on the side that chrome has its share of premium places (motorcycles, etc).. but trying to understand why some vendors want to bash chrome.    I understand Roys view on chrome as he is marketing Rhodium... But I don't understand yours?


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## SteveJ (Sep 5, 2015)

Roy

I didn't check any of the choices in the poll since checking was to agree.

I would answer no to each of the statements.
I do not consider chrome to be top of the line
I would not buy a component set such as the Emperor in Chrome and call it top of the line.
I would not pay over $35 for a chrome component set (Kit) - but then I've never paid over $35 for ANY component set.

But I do like the durability of chrome!


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## edstreet (Sep 5, 2015)

alphageek said:


> Jon... (the bolding above is mine)...  You sell a pen at almost 3x the above... and from your website: "Manufactured in Taiwan, and made exclusively, for Signature Pen Supply, the Jr. George II is made with the highest quality materials. The Antique Silver plating is unpolished Thick Chrome. "  I'm confused by this.. if chrome is so bad and only good for < $10 or Sierra styled pens... Why then do you market a more expensive pen made from chrome?   And why bash chrome here if you claim "the highest quality materials?"  I'm not trying to bash you as a vendor here.. Remember I'm on the side that chrome has its share of premium places (motorcycles, etc).. but trying to understand why some vendors want to bash chrome.    I understand Roys view on chrome as he is marketing Rhodium... But I don't understand yours?



Fail. 


Said pen is not chrome plated.  It's In a new class by itself. Properties is much higher than your standard chrome plate job and then additional work is applied, I.e. Tooling work and chemical work.


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## alphageek (Sep 5, 2015)

edstreet said:


> Fail.
> 
> Said pen is not chrome plated.  It's In a new class by itself. Properties is much higher than your standard chrome plate job and then additional work is applied, I.e. Tooling work and chemical work.



Fail yourself - that question was not to YOU or ANYONE other than Jon... it was specifically to Jon as it was his comments.  Neither his post NOR his website have the word plated on it.  The question was about "chrome".   Unless you are Jons laywer, marketing director or mother - there is no reason for you to reply for him on this.


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## edstreet (Sep 5, 2015)

alphageek said:


> Fail yourself - that question was not to YOU or ANYONE other than Jon... it was specifically to Jon as it was his comments.  Neither his post NOR his website have the word plated on it.  The question was about "chrome".   Unless you are Jons laywer, marketing director or mother - there is no reason for you to reply for him on this.



And who appointed you topic police?  It is a public area on the forum therefor everyone is free to reply no?  No need to be so defensive for me pointing out your simple logic failure.  After all you freely do these same things yourself.  You are after all just a casual user just like everyone else.


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## alphageek (Sep 5, 2015)

edstreet said:


> Roy.  I guess the technical answer is when a salesperson is selling snake oil the low quality ingredients is "high quality".  In the grand scheme it may not technically be "high grade" but in the lower limited arena of market starvation and gluttony it suddenly becomes "high grade".   Marketing ploys and sales tactics makes all the difference in the world in that realm.  If said merchant is only peddling chrome then that will be "high grade".   As with physics and math we learn limits, min max on the scope of relevance for the equation given.





edstreet said:


> Said pen is not chrome plated.  It's In a new class by itself. Properties is much higher than your standard chrome plate job and then additional work is applied, I.e. Tooling work and chemical work.





edstreet said:


> And who appointed you topic police?  It is a public area on the forum therefor everyone is free to reply no?  No need to be so defensive for me pointing out your simple logic failure.  After all you freely do these same things yourself.  You are after all just a casual user just like everyone else.



You want to talk logic fail... You call chrome and their sellers "snake Oil" and then later chrome is a new class by itself.

I think you're the snake oil here.   As for topic police, your right that anyone can respond to anything.. But my question was to Jon about his comments..  Feel free to reply with anything you wish, but it has zero relevance to my question to him since you're not him.


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## liljohn1368 (Sep 5, 2015)

MAN!!!


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## alphageek (Sep 5, 2015)

liljohn1368 said:


> MAN!!!


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## edstreet (Sep 5, 2015)

alphageek said:


> You want to talk logic fail... You call chrome and their sellers "snake Oil" and then later chrome is a new class by itself.  I think you're the snake oil here.   As for topic police, your right that anyone can respond to anything.. But my question was to Jon about his comments..  Feel free to reply with anything you wish, but it has zero relevance to my question to him since you're not him.


    Sorry fail logic again. I never said chrome was snake oil nor did I call anyone a pizza.  I did however compare the ingedients in snake oil to be falsely represented as higher value.  As for antique silver yes it is chromium applied stupidly thick then Milled down and acid etched.  Not quite your standard thin chrome plate polished job.  Also worth note is the antique job is unpolished.     

Chrome is a durable option and lower cost than rhodium.  Some may see the difference but 25% + of the male population may not see it due to visual genetic disorders. I,e. Color blind.   

I would like to urge you to stop being argumentative and please provide useful info to the topic at hand and help the community as a whole. There are a ton of misinformation out there about these two ingredients and we need all he good players on board with this.   Please.


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## alphageek (Sep 5, 2015)

edstreet said:


> I would like to urge you to stop being argumentative and please provide useful info to the topic at hand and help the community as a whole. There are a ton of misinformation out there about these two ingredients and we need all he good players on board with this.   Please.



ROFL!!!! Oh my GOD!!!   I just about peed myself.  That coming from YOU has to be the funniest post on IAP in years!!! :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

Now on that high ... I think I'll go back to ignoring you for a while... Its better for my health!


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## TurtleTom (Sep 5, 2015)

I love chrome, real chrome.  It's extremely hard and durable.  But now I'm leery of chrome  since they invented that high-end plastic that is indistinguishable from chrome.


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## mark james (Sep 5, 2015)

edstreet said:


> alphageek said:
> 
> 
> > You want to talk logic fail... You call chrome and their sellers "snake Oil" and then later chrome is a new class by itself.  I think you're the snake oil here.   As for topic police, your right that anyone can respond to anything.. But my question was to Jon about his comments..  Feel free to reply with anything you wish, but it has zero relevance to my question to him since you're not him.
> ...



Your data is a _bit off_, National Institutes of Health indicates closer to 8%(I'm only commenting to *color blindness*...  I have no opinion on other matters; but I like chrome perfectly fine ).

https://nei.nih.gov/health/color_blindness/facts_about


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## edstreet (Sep 5, 2015)

The % does vary and I'm not sure which one is correct.  Have heard 3, 8 and 25.  Thank you for pointing that out.


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## skiprat (Sep 5, 2015)

edstreet said:


> I have several numbers of platters I will be calling this upcoming week and posting results here. A la Sterling silver thread.




If I remember correctly, your Google nonsense thread on Sterling went **** up and probably even proved you wrong ...... again...:wink: I didn't bother reading till the end.

Are The Platters still going???


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## skiprat (Sep 5, 2015)

Roy, for me, a plating that is more durable than the next is high end. 
So if Chrome last longer than Gold or Silver plate then it wins. 

Every chromed kit I have made is still going strong ( that I know of ) but i have several  other plated kits that are really showing their age.


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## OKLAHOMAN (Sep 5, 2015)

Folks, this will be the last post on this thread by me, the folks that want to argue keep posting , I've needed a good laugh lately and this has provided me with it.
We have had over 50 post on this tread and only 5 pertained to the question asked, the others all were about Chrome vs Rhodium and even me being biased toward rhodium and the poll was biased.
As I have said many, many times chrome is a GOOD plating, I only asked if you thought it was a high end plating and in my original post I was not comparing Chrome t any other plating,that was done by another vendor and two others, NOT ME. 
As was pointed out Harley has lots of chrome and Harley is thought of as high end. So I will bow down to you and agree on a Harley chrome is high end and high priced, wonder what the price of a Big Boy would cost if it was plated in a Jewelry grade plating:wink:
Fords high end car would be completely different than Maserati's high end so I can see where some would have chrome pens in their high end category and from all the large quantity of votes the poll had (all 6 of them)nothing was accomplished, so a big thanks the the good folks that have taken this completely off track for their own agenda.


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## JimB (Sep 5, 2015)

Roy - the low voting in the poll could be due to the wording. For example, I don't agree with any of the statements in the poll so there is no way for me to vote. Perhaps I have misunderstood the poll.

For me, I don't market any plating as high end or low end or anything else. I sell the entire pen and answer questions about the materials and the plating and allow the customer to determine if it is what they want. They can decide for themselves if it is high end or not. I should point out that although I do pens in most platings I don't sell what many people on here consider high end. I only do ball points, no FP, no RB's.

I hope I have answered your questions even if I didn't vote in the poll.


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## maxwell_smart007 (Sep 5, 2015)

Roy, I urge you to repost this poll in a new thread, so we can let this one die...

It's as you say - nothing much of value in these six pages...but it certainly is a good topic to discuss!


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## alphageek (Sep 5, 2015)

OKLAHOMAN said:


> Folks, this will be the last post on this thread by me, the folks that want to argue keep posting , I've needed a good laugh lately and this has provided me with it.
> We have had over 50 post on this tread and only 5 pertained to the question asked, the others all were about Chrome vs Rhodium and even me being biased toward rhodium and the poll was biased.
> As I have said many, many times chrome is a GOOD plating, I only asked if you thought it was a high end plating and in my original post I was not comparing Chrome t any other plating,that was done by another vendor and two others, NOT ME.
> As was pointed out Harley has lots of chrome and Harley is thought of as high end. So I will bow down to you and agree on a Harley chrome is high end and high priced, wonder what the price of a Big Boy would cost if it was plated in a Jewelry grade plating:wink:
> Fords high end car would be completely different than Maserati's high end so I can see where some would have chrome pens in their high end category and from all the large quantity of votes the poll had (all 6 of them)nothing was accomplished, so a big thanks the the good folks that have taken this completely off track for their own agenda.



Well.. I have to say Roy that you have your blinders on here still.. You said you weren't going to post, but I'm going to reply to a few of your comments anyway (since not posting doesn't mean you won't be reading.)

1)  You said 5 posts.. I count more than double that.. I count 9 distinct people who told you about chrome not counting any that you mention.
2) You claim you weren't comparing chrome to other platings, but your initial post DOES talk about rhodium and black ti.  And you have a known track record for comparing rhodium to chrome (given that nearly every rhodium pen on your site says in RED "not chrome")
3) Of course you feel that nothing was accomplished when you put this as research, but your final statement in your first post was "Don't get me wrong, I see nothing wrong with chrome plating on lower end components but not on what is considered top of the line."

As for folks taking it off for their own agenda,  we're all sorry about that and will let this go back to YOUR agenda now (which the best I can tell is to bash chrome).    I also find it very interesting that you posted this thread the same day that one of your competitors announced a new high end pen in their line up that happens to be in chrome and gold.


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## jttheclockman (Sep 5, 2015)

Wow some things never change!!!!  I guess they never will!!!


Roy, I know you asked a question via a poll but I thought i would answer somewhat in this manner.  I am one of those people that can see the difference of  rhodium and chrome when side by side in my hand. I do not know the process that goes into any plating that goes on a kit and nor do I care. That info does absolutely nothing for me and is trivial in my selling of pens. I do hope that manufacturers of kits sell their kits according to the cost of platings and the process that it takes to apply. In other words a chrome kit should be cheaper if the plating requires less material or less steps to apply. But we are at their mercy when it comes to this. We as layman do not know that side of kit making. 

So to me a highend kit has to have the style and look that shouts HIGHEND and you automatically associate a good plating no matter what it is.  Plating is a small part in my eyes to what is highend. I think adding that special blank makes the entire pen even more highend. Are kits overpriced and are we being gouged???  Absolutely and that is indisputable But those vendors are just like everyone else and exploit the market and charge what it can bear. We as consumers make the final choices. But as pen makers we are guilty as well in the whole scheme of selling We pass on these costs in the the final product plus add what we think is a fair price and sometimes a whole unfair pricing system but that is for another thread. 

So in a round about answer to your question is chrome a highend plating, my answer is it could be but does not have to be. I think one factor that plays against chrome is its wide use as opposed to say Rhodium. It has to be cheaper to produce and use for it is used so widely. It has been proven to be a very durable finish. But as with all finishes the behind the scenes things such as how it is applied, thickness and other ingredients added are factors. Are all chromes the same and i am sure that answer is no. 


Just to throw it out there where does stainless steel rank in this discussion???


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## Smitty37 (Sep 5, 2015)

jttheclockman said:


> Wow some things never change!!!!  I guess they never will!!!
> 
> 
> Roy, I know you asked a question via a poll but I thought i would answer somewhat in this manner.  I am one of those people that can see the difference of  rhodium and chrome when side by side in my hand. I do not know the process that goes into any plating that goes on a kit and nor do I care. That info does absolutely nothing for me and is trivial in my selling of pens. I do hope that manufacturers of kits sell their kits according to the cost of platings and the process that it takes to apply. In other words a chrome kit should be cheaper if the plating requires less material or less steps to apply. But we are at their mercy when it comes to this. We as layman do not know that side of kit making.
> ...


 I can see the difference side by side in my hand too, but not when either is alone without the other to compare to.

Rhodium (and hence Rhodium plating solutions) are far more expensive than chrome.  From what I've read it seems to me that as well as being much costlier Rhodium is more difficult and much less forgiving than chrome when plating other than the "flash plating" done by jewelers.

I don't associate stainless steel with high end myself but I suppose it could be if done right.


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## OKLAHOMAN (Sep 5, 2015)

Smitty37 said:


> Is this poll a Yes or No?  If I check a block am I saying yes?  If so how do I say no?  I understand what you are trying to learn Roy but I don't think you worded the poll right to get the answer.  While I might want to say I think Chrome can be high end - I might not be willing to pay over $35 for one but I can't do both.



Sure you can, this is multiple choice, it just will show you think it's high end but you would not be willing to pay for it:biggrin:


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## Smitty37 (Sep 5, 2015)

OKLAHOMAN said:


> Smitty37 said:
> 
> 
> > Is this poll a Yes or No?  If I check a block am I saying yes?  If so how do I say no?  I understand what you are trying to learn Roy but I don't think you worded the poll right to get the answer.  While I might want to say I think Chrome can be high end - I might not be willing to pay over $35 for one but I can't do both.
> ...


 Actually Roy, if I check that I think it is high end I can't check that I won't pay $35.00 for it.  I can only select that I would. Additionally unless I agree with at least one of the statements I can't vote at all.

Assume that I do not think Chrome is high end (no check on #1) That I would not call an Emperor in Chrome high end (no check #2)
That I make pens costing more than $50.00 (no Check #3) That I would not Pay more than $35 for a Chrome Pen Kit (no Check #4) and hence since my vote will not be accepted unless I check at least one - I can't vote.  So you can only get votes from people who agree with at least one of the statements.

So you will get a skewed vote.


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## Skie_M (Sep 5, 2015)

Wow .... Ok, I think we need to get the girls in here with their micrometers and you guys can drop your pants and finally get this over with ....


Or ... we can talk about chrome and metal plating in general!   (I prefer the latter...)


I always tell my customers that the plating on the pen is less than 5%.  I really don't care if it's 1% or half a percent, it's still less than 5% either way.

The only things the plating does for me is to change the appearance of the pen kit.  Does one look more luxurious than another? sure .... 

Are some plated finishes more durable than others? sure ....

Am I going to charge a premium price for one finish over another?  Only if I have to pay more for it ....

Do I believe that chrome is a high-end finish?   It's shiny, like polished silver, is very scratch resistant, and non-tarnishing .... yup, that'll do.

Do I believe that 18kt rose gold is a high-end finish?  It's shiny, cuz it's gold, is not very scratch resistant because it's a soft metal, but it is non-tarnishing ...   nope, it's got to last.

So .... platinum, rhodium, chrome, white gold (platinum based), Ti/N gold ... all qualify as high end for me, though I'm not 100% sure on Ti/N gold being non-tarnishing.

The rest are too soft to hold up to punishment or can tarnish over time ... or are just far too common a material (base metals such as steel, aluminum, brass, bronze, copper).


Also ... I only recently started out turning pens this year, so selling a pen over the 50 dollar mark is a huge thing for me.  The pens that I have sold are almost all Antique Brass with Rose Gold accents or 24kt gold plated.  I have sold only ONE chrome plated pen.

Would I pay a premium price for chrome, though?  No.  I'ld pay a premium for jewelry-grade metal plating because I know the metal is just more costly, but I don't think Rhodium really should fit that category.  It's just as hard or harder than chrome, just and bright and shiny, and just as corrosion resistant, but it's just a replacement for silver because silver will tarnish MUCH too fast and won't take the punishment of everyday use.


That having been said, I still got a Rhodium plated Jr Gent FP kit to put my Abalone blanks on.  It'll be my first pen that could sell for over 100 dollars.  I'm not sure I could sell it for as much as I'm planning to if it were chrome .... its a little too common for that.


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## Smitty37 (Sep 5, 2015)

Skie_M said:


> Wow .... Ok, I think we need to get the girls in here with their micrometers and you guys can drop your pants and finally get this over with ....The discussion is mainly regarding the tendency of high end kit makers who formerly did not consider chrome to be a high end finish and did not offer it on their high end kits who now do so.
> 
> 
> Or ... we can talk about chrome and metal plating in general!   (I prefer the latter...)The OP did not ask about metal plating in general'
> ...


 Whether you will get more for the Rhodium depends on the venue in which you are selling.  To most consumers a $50 pen is expensive regardless of what it is made of and a $100 pen is unheard of.  Most people buy pens at WalMart Staples or Office Max not at their local jewelry shop.


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## edstreet (Sep 5, 2015)

Smitty37 said:


> blah blah blah blah blah






Smitty, this is for you.


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## Smitty37 (Sep 5, 2015)

edstreet said:


> Smitty37 said:
> 
> 
> > blah blah blah blah blah
> ...


Why thank you ED it is really so nice of you to think of me.  However I was not aware that you were speaking for the IAP community and you will need to show me some proof that you do.  Are you a monitor?  No I don't believe you are.  Are you otherwise connected with IAP management?  No I don't believe you are.  If you are one of those things, kindly tell us exactly what your job title is, that you feel you can claim to speak for the IAP community.  I believe that as usual you are just talking. BTW you misspelled Smitty37 it is one word not two.*And if you are going to claim a quote as being mine do not put your words in it.*


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## maxwell_smart007 (Sep 6, 2015)

Ok, I'm now completely certain that the back-and-forth that's occurring in this thread has no chance of stopping.  I'm going to close this thread, and ask Roy to repost if he so desires. 

Hopefully we can act like adults if and when he does??

Andrew 
assistant moderator


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