# Setting Records----not good ones



## Gary Max (Feb 13, 2010)

I should of bought stock in the local Power company.
Am I the only one getting record home heating bills. Most folks don't even take their coats off in our house. It's cool enough that I wear two pairs of socks and house slippers in here and there seems to be no end in sight. Heck if it could type wearing gloves I would be warmer.
Our heating cost are up almost 20 % this year---sure wish my sales where.


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## jimofsanston (Feb 13, 2010)

Yeah this Jan bill was the highest I ever had just over 300.00 which was crazy. The local station did a report on the electric bills going up. Just about everyones was higher. My nieghbor up the streets bill was 500.00+ they have six people in the house. I only have 3.


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## RonSchmitt (Feb 13, 2010)

Ours keeps going up also, and turning down the heat is not an option, the wife has medical conditions that requires us to keep the house at 68 at least.
And as anyone else here that has a Parrot as a pet knows, they need to stay reasonably warm.
( tried to get the bird to wear a sweater, that did NOT go well:biggrin


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## Gary Max (Feb 13, 2010)

The only time I get warm-----is out in the shop. I do have a wood stove out there.
We live in a Double wide and insurance companys won't cover you if you add a wood stove. Of course after living here for 10 years I can see their point. This place would burn to the ground in minutes. Thermostat is set on 65  here.


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## dontheturner (Feb 13, 2010)

RonSchmitt said:


> Ours keeps going up also, and turning down the heat is not an option, the wife has medical conditions that requires us to keep the house at 68 at least.
> And as anyone else here that has a Parrot as a pet knows, they need to stay reasonably warm.
> ( tried to get the bird to wear a sweater, that did NOT go well:biggrin


Please you guys - come here when it is winter in US of A.  Heating?  what heating? there is None!  Elec Bill?  under £5 a month, and NEVER one in December.   I Know - its disgraceful, but I have to tolerate this awful heat!  I am always stripped to the waist, never wear socks, nor singlets, and when doing only pens, no shoes!  Sorry guys!   Don


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## tim self (Feb 13, 2010)

Would love to Ron, but I remember the summers that go with them.  But I love the east china sea diving.  Am I complaining, yep, miss the orient like crazy.

But I feel your pain Gary.  Burnt though 150 gal of propane in 2 months and havent been in the shop for almost 2 months.  And it's just us 2 and the cats.


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## mranum (Feb 13, 2010)

Gary Max said:


> The only time I get warm-----is out in the shop. I do have a wood stove out there.
> We live in a Double wide and insurance companys won't cover you if you add a wood stove. Of course after living here for 10 years I can see their point. This place would burn to the ground in minutes. Thermostat is set on 65  here.



You may want to consider this, I live in a double wide bought new 4 years ago.  The heating bills were getting right up there when the lp gas price went nuts a couple years ago and decided I needed to get wood heat.  Insurance told me too that wood stoves are a no no.  However, a wood burning fireplace is just fine, won't even raise your rates.  Its considered more for decoration and equity value than a heating source.  Anyway, did some homework on high efficiency fireplaces and bought an Ultima made by BIS in Canada, through a local dealer.  This is my second season and we heat with it pretty much 24/7 and keeps this place about 75-78 most of the time with ease, and no increase in my insurance at all.  I burn about 7-8 face cord of oak during the heating season.

With my FIL's help, we did the prep work and the dealer came in and set it and ran all the venting for it then we did the stone and other finish work ourselves.  Total cost was about $3500, and estimated value increase to the home was $9000 of equity.

http://www.securitychimneys.com/residential/fireplaces/BISUltima/

Here is the maker of the stone, they are local to me but ship everywhere and were very reasonable.  I think it cost me about $250 for the stone, mesh and mortar through them.
http://www.wisconsinpridestone.com/index.html


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## Gary Max (Feb 13, 2010)

I will call my insurance company today-----sometimes the wording makes all the differance in the world. I even went back and asked about a pellet stove and they said no. I also checked with other companies and always get the same responce, but a phone call only cost me a minute of my time.


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## mranum (Feb 13, 2010)

I have American Family if it helps any.  Their only concern was WHO was doing the install, they weren't to crazy about me doing it but since the dealer did it then all liability went to them.  Finish work they didn't care about as long as the minimum clearances were met.  They just needed to come out and take a look at it when it was done.

Actually my brother put the same unit in the same year I did, he has a older double wide with a different ins company and it was the same for him as well.  No change.

 Fireplaces are "exempt".  That was their wording.

Good luck!


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## Jim Smith (Feb 13, 2010)

When I renovated the house we live in, I added 18 inches of insulation to the attic and put in thermopane windows.  Those two items cut the heating and cooling costs by over 50%.  If I could only do one of these two upgrades, I'd insulate the attic, including adding "boots" to the pull-down attic stairs.  These boots are an insulated canopy that fits over the opening that zips closed.  When you pull down the stairs, all you see is the boot and you have to unzip it to get into the attic.  Each attic stair opening looses enough heat/cold to be equal to having one window half open in the winter or summer  I know that these upgrades cost money, but between the tax incentive rebates and cost savings, they pay for themselves in about two years, not to mention not having to be freezing cold in the winter or sweating through the night in the summer  Just some food for thought as I look out the window to the freshly fallen snow here in Georgia.

Jim Smith


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## Gary Max (Feb 13, 2010)

The windows in this place are a joke but the cost of replacing them sure ain't---I need ten windows each are almost the size of doorway.
We do cover them with plastic which helps some.


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## Nolan (Feb 13, 2010)

that turned out nice looking, you are lucky to be able to burn wood. Move to this upside down / backwards state and they would put you in the slam for that. You cant burn would now unless its your only source of heat because of the save the planet folks. Too much air pollution is caused by burning wood they say. BTW you cant pull out the HVAC or whatever you have to then say the fireplace is your only heat. My energy bill a few years back was about 40.00 to 50.00 bucks a month and now runs 300.00 plus. Matter of fact I am going to the store this morning to trade out my sons night-light to a new LED style along with a few other things to try and get my power consumption down because they have a 12% rate increase coming in 2 months....




mranum said:


> You may want to consider this, I live in a double wide bought new 4 years ago. The heating bills were getting right up there when the lp gas price went nuts a couple years ago and decided I needed to get wood heat. Insurance told me too that wood stoves are a no no. However, a wood burning fireplace is just fine, won't even raise your rates. Its considered more for decoration and equity value than a heating source. Anyway, did some homework on high efficiency fireplaces and bought an Ultima made by BIS in Canada, through a local dealer. This is my second season and we heat with it pretty much 24/7 and keeps this place about 75-78 most of the time with ease, and no increase in my insurance at all. I burn about 7-8 face cord of oak during the heating season.
> 
> With my FIL's help, we did the prep work and the dealer came in and set it and ran all the venting for it then we did the stone and other finish work ourselves. Total cost was about $3500, and estimated value increase to the home was $9000 of equity.
> 
> ...


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## Chasper (Feb 13, 2010)

Jan bill was $165 for natural gas (two furnaces, two water heaters and two seldom used natural gas fireplaces) and $130 for electric.  The house is a little over 5000 square feet, with lots of insulation.  2 X 6es in the outside walls to make room for more insulation.  That includes some days in single digits.  It was the highest gas bill ever.


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## JimB (Feb 13, 2010)

We get a combined electric and natural gas (heating) bill. The January bill is actually lower than last last and last year was lower than the year before. There are 2 reasons for it. One is the temperature in January was a bit warmer that last year. 26 degrees average temp this year vs 20 last year. The other thing is that 2 years ago we added insulation to parts of the basement and did some caulking on the outside of the house. This reduced the amount of cold air leaking into the house. 

Gary, the other thing you can do is buy non-expanding removeable caulk. it is made to seal around windows to stop the drafts. We use it on the windows facing the direction the wind comes from. It works really well and at the end of the winter can be removed.


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## DocStram (Feb 13, 2010)

I remember paying those high heating bills back when we lived in North Central PA.  The gas companies could charge more for "imported natural gas".  ("Imported' as in piped in from Texas).  The real kicker was when I'd go trout fishing out in the woods and come across a natural gas well that was being burned off. 

My solution was to heat the whole house with wood.  (Back in the days before I started turning)  I put in a large wood burning heater in the basement and tied it into my duct work.  Then I installed an extra hot water tank and a copper line through the fire box of the wood burner.  Not only did we heat the whole house with wood but also our hot water.  I shut the gas off during the winter months.

It was a lot of work . . .  but I saved a ton of money.  Plus, I was in great shape from cutting 15 cords of wood every summer.


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## Rojo22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I dont usually get that emotional, but when I opened the natural gas bill for January, I was tearful...over the $300 mark, and its just me the Mrs. and two cats......


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## Gary Max (Feb 13, 2010)

Heck my wallet got real emotional and we still have more on the way.
Let's see what else I can find to sell.


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## wdcav1952 (Feb 14, 2010)

Doc Al,

You should be here in PA now.  They just deregulated (or something) PP&L, and prices took about a 20% jump.


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## TellicoTurning (Feb 14, 2010)

mranum said:


> I have American Family if it helps any.  Their only concern was WHO was doing the install, they weren't to crazy about me doing it but since the dealer did it then all liability went to them.  Finish work they didn't care about as long as the minimum clearances were met.  They just needed to come out and take a look at it when it was done.
> 
> Actually my brother put the same unit in the same year I did, he has a older double wide with a different ins company and it was the same for him as well.  No change.
> 
> ...



That's interesting... I would like a fireplace... not sure we have room for one.
I have what is essentially a 12-15 year old double wide.  It's sitting on blocks with a concrete block foundation completely around the exterior...  I have a concrete 12x30 porch on the front and a 13x30 wood screened porch on the back... the finance company couldn't decide if it was a modular or a trailer  house...


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## Gary Max (Feb 14, 2010)

Chuck that's the way we are going. I had plans laid out last year for another room to be added to the place just never came up with the time or money.
After the light bills I got this year----the room is going to be smaller and I am going to start on it as soon as the ground thaws. I don't care if it's just a dirt floor with three walls---we ain't doing this again.
I have seen several of these burn to the ground---only take a few minutes. I will feel safer if I build a room for the stove. I heat my shop with wood with good results.
Plus like Al said-----spliiting wood is Fun. Now I just have to keep telling myself that.


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## bitshird (Feb 14, 2010)

TellicoTurning said:


> That's interesting... I would like a fireplace... not sure we have room for one.
> I have what is essentially a 12-15 year old double wide.  It's sitting on blocks with a concrete block foundation completely around the exterior...  I have a concrete 12x30 porch on the front and a 13x30 wood screened porch on the back... the finance company couldn't decide if it was a modular or a trailer  house...



Chuck we have a very similar situation, our place is just two 15 year old single wides one 12 x 60 and the other half 14x 60 fitted together like a double wide, sitting on a concrete block foundation with concrete blocks on the under side supports and the county taxes our place as a House.
 Our heating is Propane and we used 70 gallons last month, we just topped off since we got our tax refund  with 140 gallons @ 2.65 a gallon,  I'd love to put an efficient wood burning stove in , but they run about 2,500  and this place isn't worth it, even though the appraisal says different, we just use two radiant propane heaters one 30,00btu qand onr 20,000 BTU , keeps us toasty for the most part,


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## Gary Max (Feb 14, 2010)

6 years ago we paid .89 cents for propane----last year it hit $2.50 plus and I had them come and get the tank.


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## DurocShark (Feb 14, 2010)

$175 a month so far this winter for gas & electric. Ugh. Here in CO you can only burn wood on certain days. And no new installations of wood burning appliances of any kind are allowed. 

Sucks.


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## bitshird (Feb 14, 2010)

DurocShark said:


> $175 a month so far this winter for gas & electric. Ugh. Here in CO you can only burn wood on certain days. And no new installations of wood burning appliances of any kind are allowed.
> 
> Sucks.



Don, Colorado and Texas want to be just like California when they grow up., I had some friends that made their lively hood selling fire wood to the Condos in Aspen, Breckenridge and Vail.


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## DurocShark (Feb 14, 2010)

It's because of all the Ex-Californians who moved here!!! (I'm one of them... :blush: )


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## Jgrden (Feb 14, 2010)

Rojo22 said:


> I dont usually get that emotional, but when I opened the natural gas bill for January, I was tearful...over the $300 mark, and its just me the Mrs. and two cats......


We hit close to $380.00. We kept the place warm while Mary's mom was here. Can't afford another bill like that one. Energy, taxes, insurance and car registration. We are making everyone else rich.


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## Glenn McCullough (Feb 14, 2010)

Actually, my bill was lower than it has ever been in January in this house, since i built it 10 years ago. It was $172.00. Not bad for a 2500 sq ft home.


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## intillzah (Feb 14, 2010)

I got my heating bill for my place, it went from 100 last year at this time to 200 this year.  But then again, I added the heater out in the garage and that is what doubled my bill.  

Thank the one upstairs for leveled payments to the gas company.  So my "bill" that I have to pay is 75 bucks....


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## Gary Max (Feb 15, 2010)

And this morning we find 4 more inchs of that white stuff.


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## bkersten (Feb 15, 2010)

Gary Max said:


> And this morning we find 4 more inchs of that white stuff.


 

Looks like a few of the Gettysburg ORBS headed your way.   Send them back if you don't want them because the tourists here love them besides it helps the economy.:smile-big:


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## witz1976 (Feb 15, 2010)

Gary Max said:


> ...We live in a Double wide and insurance companys won't cover you if you add a wood stove. ...



Gary, you may want to shop around for a new insurance company.  Most wood stoves now are listed and approved for mobile home use, usually you have to bolt them down, run outside air, and vent straight through the roof (not through the wall).  

I know this because I am work for a stove & fireplace store up here in Maine.  We put them into mobile homes occasionally and people who comeback saying they got a letter from their insurance company we show them the page that approves the unit and method of installation and that usually shuts them up.

Insurance Companies HATE wood stoves in general, but don't that discourage you from heating your home less expensively.


BTW if you are looking to put one in, this is the year to do it.  The 30% Energy tax credit that the government is offering expires in Dec.

Good luck!


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## wee willie (Feb 15, 2010)

1500 sq ft with a full basement(walkout) built 1971. $440/mth for oil,  hydro is approx $320/mth, and that's Canadian dollars. We had a woodstove on the upper level,insurance co didn't like it so we had to take it out however the insert in the basement was ok as long as there was a stainless liner in the chimney(there was).


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## Gary Max (Feb 15, 2010)

I am betting these rules differ from state to state---I checked with every insurance company in the book and got the same answer. I am just going to add a small room and put the woodburner on the outside wall of it. The room will have a outside door and I won't have to drag the wood through the house. I help(a little) with the house cleaning so I know how fast you can make a mess.


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## dullbroadhead (Feb 15, 2010)

This s how they are making solar and wind power cost effective, raise the cost of electric and gas to there level.


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## Gary Max (Feb 15, 2010)

Now that's a whole new can of worms------a cost effective natural power source is years overdue.
Solar panels are at least 20 years behind the demand for them and the ones that are around are not cost effective much less the battery systems they charge.


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## robutacion (Feb 15, 2010)

mranum said:


> You may want to consider this, I live in a double wide bought new 4 years ago.  The heating bills were getting right up there when the lp gas price went nuts a couple years ago and decided I needed to get wood heat.  Insurance told me too that wood stoves are a no no.  However, a wood burning fireplace is just fine, won't even raise your rates.  Its considered more for decoration and equity value than a heating source.  Anyway, did some homework on high efficiency fireplaces and bought an Ultima made by BIS in Canada, through a local dealer.  This is my second season and we heat with it pretty much 24/7 and keeps this place about 75-78 most of the time with ease, and no increase in my insurance at all.  I burn about 7-8 face cord of oak during the heating season.
> 
> With my FIL's help, we did the prep work and the dealer came in and set it and ran all the venting for it then we did the stone and other finish work ourselves.  Total cost was about $3500, and estimated value increase to the home was $9000 of equity.
> 
> Here is the maker of the stone, they are local to me but ship everywhere and were very reasonable.  I think it cost me about $250 for the stone, mesh and mortar through them.



Hi peoples,

I have been reading and watching the news on that cold front that has been hitting the USA and other places these last few weeks, and I can but nothing else feel for all of you guys (ladies and gents!). I have seen and played with snow about 40 years ago, in a long trip to the Estrela the Serra  (Mountain Star) about 700+ km from home then,  back in my country of birth (Portugal).

In the 22 years living is Australia, 90% of the time I was living and working in the desert with temperatures reaching 55C, dropping to bellow 0C at night for some months of the years.  No snow but that dreadful "frost" and strong winds...!.  Some years spend up in the tropics of the Northern Territory, hot and extremely humid (100% humidity in many days), some how a better weather than the desert one, for me, anyways...!

Hot weather seem to be what I liked the most, or the one I less suffer, never liked the cold and anything under 18C was getting cold for me...! As I grown older, I started to dislike the heat and started to enjoy milder temperatures, obviously after all those years expose to such extremes the body had enough of it so, when I retired from paid work all together, where 2 things that I missed the most, trees and a fireplace...!:redface:

As a kid, I would go around to neighbors with my axe on my shoulder, offering to split wood for their fireplaces, as my parents house was gas heated, one of the advantages of a more "upper class" status, in that traditional mentality...!.  I didn't like it a bit so I spend more time at some friends houses where they, being of "lower class...!" couldn't afford anything else but wood.  God bless those "lower class" people, as my family would call, they were a lot more my people than my own blood were!:biggrin: 

All those "blisters" bursting with liquid, where quickly perforated through with a large needle and some cotton string, tied up and left there for further draining.  Was not a lot more I could ask in a cold winter's day/night, then be seated in front of a open fireplace with a few dozen "chouricos" getting smoked cured up above, and a hand full of cured olives or dry figs, some home made "broa" dark bred and a fair size of red wine glass or a short glass with the "explosive" and hot "aguardent" firewater...!

While using my natural "draining liquid" to "coat" the bubbled blisters every nature would make the call, the healing process was extremely fast, and always effective...! Those were the days!

Moving to this State and area, I got back most of the very missed things that for nearly 20 years I could have, the four season's weather, the trees and plenty of them, grasses, mountains and valley's, and off-course, my fireplace, my wood chopping,  olive trees, grape vines and pine forests...:biggrin:!

Not that I had my life very easy on the fireplace, as the home we were renting didn't have one, as the house was one of those "portable" 2 bedroom houses, without any plans for a fireplace inside so I had some work to do with the home owners, insurance and the expense which was decided that had to me all mine...!.  The conditions (owners agreement) were that, I would build it in such way that could the remove if necessary, have the installation certificate with the description of materials used and specifications as per the regulations, they would take care of the insurance, and that if at any time I or a decision was made for me to vacate the house (property) unless the added fireplace was asked to stay and be paid for all the costs by the home owner, I had to leave the place exactly how I found it (no whole in the ceiling, roof, floor and wall conditions, etc., etc.):redface:

One week later, the fireplace was on and full blast, as my wife Merissa, she seamed to have discover for the first time, the pleasures of a fireplace so, she just kept putting logs into it, that was no problem as the is a excellent wood splitter, she likes to do it and was no shortage of wood!
After 12 months of great enjoyment, the house owners decided to put the house for sale so we had to go, we couldn't never afford to buy it.

The 4 weeks we had notice, were short, and when I asked them if they wanted to keep the fireplace and get a high value for the house, they said" Oh no..., you can leave it if you want as you don't go to have the time to look for another place and remove all that "stuff" you done but we will not pay for anything, so is better to leave it and spend the time looking for a place to go to...!"  They had it all planned as I did a lot of other improvements in and outside, and they saw the opportunity to make good money out of 12 months of my work and money...!

Cutting already a long story short, I got mad, really mad so out of the 4 weeks they gave us, I sold all my firewood, got a neighbor to let me put my stuff in his large backyard, covered with tarpolens and spend most of that months removing/dismantling/destroying all the work we had done in and out of the house.  The day of the inspection, return of the keys and get my $800 bond, paid cash and agreed to be returned the same way, they didn't gave us anything as they realize that we had worked night and day to bring the place back to its original condition, the best we could as the "jungle" and "dump" that front and backyards were like when we moved in, I just could put the jungle back, unfortunately...!

Well, the new fireplace including the insulated back wall and insulated floor I've made for it, were re-installed in the house that I'm now and since 2006.  Again, an agreement was made between ourselves the owner and the Real State people, but this time and after I was presented with a 1 year lease only, I made the offer to the owner to leave the fireplace as is if they will give at least a 5 year lease.  The Real State didn't like the idea as the rent was "locked" for the period but the owner and after we met at the house, she saw the extra value the house would have and also the way I was looking after her property, which she did not hesitate and instructed the Real State people to write a new lease agreement.:biggrin:

Is not long before those 5 years are over but, I would like to stay as long as we want to/can, and the property owner is well aware of it so, fingers cross...!

I apologize for my long story, my thoughts started wondering when Gary started this thread, and then when *mranum* showed the pics of his fireplace construction, I couldn't stop myself but tell my fireplace story...!:wink:

Off-course, it did happen, and the pics demonstrate just that.  The first lot of pics is from the first place I installed it, the second lot is my home now!

PS: I don't think that I will be running out of firewood timber here either, huh...???:biggrin:

Cheers
George


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## Gary Max (Feb 16, 2010)

Real nice set up and a great story.
The doublewide we live in is 15 years old, even with the best installation there is I don't think I would fully trust it. The walls are panels not dry wall and with vaulted ceilings a fire could draft 50 foot in seconds.
I am thinking of adding a 16 X 20 to the back figuring the biggest cost will be the trusses.


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## Len Shreck (Feb 16, 2010)

We have Oil Hot water heat with the old style cast iron radiators and it is costing us about 600.00 a month for oil since Dec. Oil prices are 2.50+ around here. I for one cant wait for Spring. Len


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