# drilling blanks



## chartle (Jun 23, 2015)

ok my cheap 2 1/8" quill travel drill press is just not going to cut it for me.

I just came into a little extra "fun money" and thinking of drilling on my lathe.

My lathe is the cheap smallest lathe that Harbor Freight sells and it been great for pens, better than I expected. I thought maybe I would have shim something or do some other stuff to dial it in but the only thing I have done is sand down the tool rests to make them a smoother and a little rounder.

So OK I can get the set of jaws and drill chuck from Penn State. I'm just not sure this mini lathe will be up to it. Though if they would work I probably would get a real 4 jaw chuck so I can do other things and then just get jacobs MT 1 chuck for the tail stock. 

Any thoughts. Last time I asked some one I think had one that they tried to use with this lathe and was looking to unload it because they had some trouble.  

thanks


----------



## monophoto (Jun 23, 2015)

Cliff:

Drilling pen blanks, or any other spindle, on the lathe involves drilling in end grain.  That's tough duty and requires a machine that can produce lots of torque. 

The torque on variable speed lathes is proportional to the output voltage produced by the speed control.  My experience with a ShopFox 1704 (similar to the low-end HF lathe but with a slightly larger motor rating) is that the motor horsepower was marginally too low to drill successfully.  At the low end of the range, the torque was so low that the lathe would actually stall out.  I could correct that by increasing the speed (ie, increasing the output voltage from the speed control), but higher speed means higher friction and therefore more heat.  

The bit you are using can aggravate this issue.  Twist drills and brad point bits were usuall OK, spade bits were marginal, but I was only able to use smaller forstner bits.  Anything about about 3/4" was a problem.


----------



## chartle (Jun 23, 2015)

monophoto said:


> Cliff:
> 
> Drilling pen blanks, or any other spindle, on the lathe involves drilling in end grain.  That's tough duty and requires a machine that can produce lots of torque.
> 
> ...



Thats what I was afraid of.:frown:

So still need more tips on how to drill with such a short travel. Its like I need a gizmo that would raise my blank up into the drill bit in my drill press. 

I can drill so far and then raise the blank up with the bit in the hole but now I can't clear the chips since my bit doesn't pull out of the blank all the way. 

One point, I assumed the speed control would use pulse width modulation not just vary the voltage.


----------



## csr67 (Jun 23, 2015)

I had that same HF mini lathe when I first started this sickness, I mean hobby.  I bought a 16x3/4 adapter on Amazon that allowed me to attach a PSI pen blank chuck and I also bought a MT1 jacobs chuck for the tailstock.

I probably drilled 50 blanks before returning the HF lathe to get a refund.  It work, but any tough material or heavy load would stall the VS lathe, requiring me to turn it off and back on again.  Also, my tailstock had just enough slop that I often got out or round holes.

So, it is possible to drill on that lathe.  I already sold my MT1 stuff to another member.  Since upgrading to a better lathe, Rikon 70-100, I can drill with zero issues.


----------



## monophoto (Jun 23, 2015)

chartle said:


> One point, I assumed the speed control would use pulse width modulation not just vary the voltage.



Not at that price!


----------



## Kragax (Jun 25, 2015)

I have the HF lathe and it is my only method for drilling blanks. Works well for me. I haven't stalled at all. Even drilling for Olympian sized tubes.


----------



## Arbetlam (Jun 25, 2015)

I have a jet variable speed and have no problem drilling pen or pepper mill blanks just as long as you go slow.


----------



## chartle (Jun 25, 2015)

Kragax said:


> I have the HF lathe and it is my only method for drilling blanks. Works well for me. I haven't stalled at all. Even drilling for Olympian sized tubes.



Is it the mini lathe this one. 







Benchtop Wood Lathe - 8" x 12"


----------



## Rick_G (Jun 25, 2015)

I used a drill press like that for several years and found that by drilling as far as I could then setting the blank with the bit in it on a piece of 2x4 I could drill the last inch or so with no problems.  With some wood I had to pull the blank off the bit a couple times to clear chips.  Fairly easy just pull the 2x out from under and pull the blank down.  In your position if I only did pens I would likely continue like this and save the "fun" money and add to it for a better lathe.  Keep an eye on Craig's list etc. and you may be able to come up with a used on that uses MT2 for a reasonable price.


----------



## chartle (Jun 25, 2015)

Rick_G said:


> I used a drill press like that for several years and found that by drilling as far as I could then setting the blank with the bit in it on a piece of 2x4 I could drill the last inch or so with no problems.  With some wood I had to pull the blank off the bit a couple times to clear chips.  Fairly easy just pull the 2x out from under and pull the blank down.  In your position if I only did pens I would likely continue like this and save the "fun" money and add to it for a better lathe.  Keep an eye on Craig's list etc. and you may be able to come up with a used on that uses MT2 for a reasonable price.



But I like my little baby lathe.  and I don't need two lathes and don't want to get into selling stuff online. (Seems like too much work)


----------



## Rick_G (Jun 25, 2015)

chartle said:


> But I like my little baby lathe.  and I don't need two lathes and don't want to get into selling stuff online. (Seems like too much work)



Not sure what thread you have on your headstock but you might need this.  
William Wood-Write Ltd.
they also carry a drill chuck with a MT1 taper and the dedicated pen blank drilling chuck.  
This is the place I usually deal with in Canada and with the Canadian dollar worth so much less than the U.S. dollar now it would likely work out to the same price.  
I think I would get the threading adapter if you need it as it lets you use a lot more accessories.


----------



## monophoto (Jun 25, 2015)

Cliff

You said that your drill press doesn't have enough quill travel for the drilling that you are doing.  Understand that the quill in your lathe also has limited travel, so it's not a perfect solution.  However, dealing with shorter quill travel while drilling on the lathe is a bit easier than dealing with inadequate drill press quill travel.

Regardless of whether you drill on the lathe or with a drill press, you have to drill in small bites, backing the bit out periodically to clear the swarf.  If you are using a drill press, you have the problem of what to do when you run out of quill travel - you have to move the position of the blank on the drill press table, and you really don't want to take it out of the vise you are using to hold it.  The approach I've always used is that I keep a stack of scraps of 3/4" mdf under the bench, and when I run out of quill travel, I slip a piece of mdf under the vice holding the blank to elevate it by 3/4" of an inch.  My 'vise' is a jorgensen clamp with grooves in the faces to grip the corners of the blank.  And if that's not enough, I use two pieces of mdf, etc.  Obviously, too many pieces of MDF and things get tippy.

When drilling on the lathe, the solution is a bit simpler - I back the bit out of the blank to clear the swarf, but rather than using the quill to advance the bit, I move the tailstock to the left, and lock it back into position.  That means the starting point for quill travel is with the bit partway into the blank, so it can drill further.  A critical requirement is that you tailstock must be in exact alignment with the headstock so that the bit remains on axis - but that's a critical requirement for turning anyway and if your lathe won't do that, then you have far more serious problems.

I stand by my comments that these small fractional-horsepower lathes do not produce enough torque for most drilling applications.  However, if all you are doing is pens where you are using a spiral bit in the 1/4 - 3/8" range, you probably won't have a problem.  You do need to keep the bit sharp.  You can easily 'tune up' a spiral bit with a diamond hone.  Brad point bits are a bit more tedious to sharpen, but that's a manageable problem.  Just stay away from forstner bits.


----------



## monophoto (Jun 25, 2015)

What do you need?

In my opinion you need two things:
1.  You need a way to hold the blank on your headstock.  The best answer to that is a scroll chuck with pin jaws.  As long as the blank is reasonably square, you can hold it in pin jaws.  If it is not square, then the best approach is to put it between centers and turn a tenon on one end that you can grip with pin jaws.  Pen-blank drilling jaws would be a convenience, not a necessity.

2.  You need a way to hold the drill bit.  There are lots of videos that demonstrate using a hand-held bit to drill depth holes for bowls or other hollow forms.  I've even held a drill bit in vice-grips for drilling on the lathe.  The most precise approach is to use a Jacobs chuck that mounts in your tailstock.  You can purchase drill bits with MT shanks, but I think it would be less expensive and more versatile to spring for a Jacobs chuck so that you can use generic bits.


----------



## mecompco (Jul 3, 2015)

Harbor Freight sells a 1/2" chuck with MT2 for $14.95. Granted, it's about 1/2 the dia. of the 60-odd y/o Jacobs #3 chuck that came with my ancient Craftsman lathe, but seems serviceable. 

Regards,
Michael


----------



## chartle (Jul 3, 2015)

mecompco said:


> Harbor Freight sells a 1/2" chuck with MT2 for $14.95. Granted, it's about 1/2 the dia. of the 60-odd y/o Jacobs #3 chuck that came with my ancient Craftsman lathe, but seems serviceable.
> 
> Regards,
> Michael



I'm have mt 1


----------



## mecompco (Jul 3, 2015)

chartle said:


> mecompco said:
> 
> 
> > Harbor Freight sells a 1/2" chuck with MT2 for $14.95. Granted, it's about 1/2 the dia. of the 60-odd y/o Jacobs #3 chuck that came with my ancient Craftsman lathe, but seems serviceable.
> ...



MT1 to MT2 adapters are available on Amazon for under $10.00 (free ship if you have Prime). 

http://www.amazon.com/Morse-Taper-A...TF8&qid=1435966129&sr=8-2&keywords=mt1+to+mt2

I have the opposite problem, my metal lathe has MT3 in the headstock--I have four MT2 adapters for various attachments. :wink:


----------



## KenV (Jul 3, 2015)

" MT1 to MT2 adapters are available on Amazon for under $10.00 (free ship if you have Prime). 

http://www.amazon.com/Morse-Taper-Ad...rds=mt1+to+mt2

"


That one has MT2 on the outside and MT1 on the inside --  One can get it the other way, but it is a big long piece of metal with MT1 on the outside an MT2 on the inside -  not leaving much for working space.

There are MT1 drill chucks available, but 1/2 inch is uncommon.   (I had a MT1 lathe for a few years and used a 3/8 chuck and got larger bits with 3/8 shanks).

On the other hand -- Wood craft is selling the 6 speed Rikon for under $400  -- and it works with 1 by 8 headstock and MT2 tapers.


----------



## csr67 (Jul 3, 2015)

KenV said:


> " MT1 to MT2 adapters are available on Amazon for under $10.00 (free ship if you have Prime).
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Morse-Taper-Ad...rds=mt1+to+mt2
> 
> ...



Too funny you mentioned that!  I went from the HF MT1 lathe to the Rikon and never looked back.  The Rikon has made this hobby a pleasure. With the HF lathe it was a chore with all the little issues.


----------



## mecompco (Jul 3, 2015)

KenV said:


> " MT1 to MT2 adapters are available on Amazon for under $10.00 (free ship if you have Prime).
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Morse-Taper-Ad...rds=mt1+to+mt2
> 
> ...



Well, yes, that is what the OP asked for (if I'm reading correctly). He has MT1 in his tailstock and wants to perhaps add a drill chuck. This would allow him to add a 1/2" drill chuck for around $25.00.


----------



## ed4copies (Jul 3, 2015)

chartle said:


> Rick_G said:
> 
> 
> > I used a drill press like that for several years and found that by drilling as far as I could then setting the blank with the bit in it on a piece of 2x4 I could drill the last inch or so with no problems.  With some wood I had to pull the blank off the bit a couple times to clear chips.  Fairly easy just pull the 2x out from under and pull the blank down.  In your position if I only did pens I would likely continue like this and save the "fun" money and add to it for a better lathe.  Keep an eye on Craig's list etc. and you may be able to come up with a used on that uses MT2 for a reasonable price.
> ...



It will make a great buffing station.


----------



## KenV (Jul 3, 2015)

mecompco said:


> KenV said:
> 
> 
> > " MT1 to MT2 adapters are available on Amazon for under $10.00 (free ship if you have Prime).
> ...



The gear you cited is one designed to fit into a MT2 taper and allow the insertion of a MT1 taper into it --   He need it the other way around.   The MT 2 is huge compared to MT1


----------



## chartle (Jul 4, 2015)

monophoto said:


> Cliff:
> 
> Drilling pen blanks, or any other spindle, on the lathe involves drilling in end grain.  That's tough duty and requires a machine that can produce lots of torque.
> 
> ...



Ok after some thought I'm going the beginning of this post.

What I was looking at was this.

PenPal Drilling Chuck Accessory Set at Penn State Industries

Its an accessory for Penn State's mini pen lathe. This lathe is 1/5 house power and appears to be direct drive.  I'm going to assume my lathe would have similar "real" power.

My only issue is I'd rather have a something thats less of a unitasker. So I guess I'm looking for a small inexpensive 4 jaw chuck that has pin jaws as an accessory and a drill chuck for the tail stock. The drill chuck is easy, its the 4 jaw chuck I'm not so sure of.


----------



## oneleggimp (Jul 4, 2015)

chartle said:


> ok my cheap 2 1/8" quill travel drill press is just not going to cut it for me.
> 
> I just came into a little extra "fun money" and thinking of drilling on my lathe.
> 
> ...


I have that lathe and I use the PSI Pen Blank Drilling Chuck with it. (you have to get the spindle adapter since the chuck is for 1" thread and the HF lathe is 3/4 spindle thread). And I bought the keyed drill chuck from PSI as well with the MT1 taper mandrel.  Works like a charm.  You can also use the spindle adapter for other things like a screw faceplate and the PSI Bottle Stopper Chuck so it works for multiple applications.  I got the little pen blank drilling chuck (1" capacity)because of my scottish ancestors (basically I squeze the dollar so tightly the Eagle screams for mercy) but in retrospect I might have gotten the bigger one so it could be used for bottle stopper blanks, shaving brush blanks, pepper grinders and the like which the little chuck can't do.


----------



## chartle (Jul 5, 2015)

Ok so I think I could get this.

Utility Grip 4 Jaw Chrome Lathe Chuck 

Pen Blank Drilling Jaws for C Series Lathe Chucks 

to hold the blanks and this or any other MT 1 drill chuck to hold the bit

Not sure I really want to spend this on my hobby but it does give me a real 4 jaw chuck to use.

Also I have come up with a more stream lined drilling procedure.


----------



## KenV (Jul 5, 2015)

Cliff -- you are using the marginal power of the small motor to spin up mass of a larger chuck.  

The laws of physics suggest that you are trying to stretch that little lathe to the smoke release point --  at which time you can move to a lathe with more power.

You have the yugo of lathes and it cannot be made to perform like a mercedes.


----------



## chartle (Jul 5, 2015)

KenV said:


> Cliff -- you are using the marginal power of the small motor to spin up mass of a larger chuck.
> 
> The laws of physics suggest that you are trying to stretch that little lathe to the smoke release point --  at which time you can move to a lathe with more power.
> 
> You have the yugo of lathes and it cannot be made to perform like a mercedes.



But I just need a Chevy, also I think you can buy more magic blue smoke. :wink:


----------



## chartle (Jan 15, 2016)

*OK I did it*

For Xmas I've been adding to my tooling and got the above chuck and a MT1 drill chuck.

Drilled my first blank and it came out pretty good. Note the blank wasn't square and I was making a blank for a one piece slimline. Oh and yes I will get the correct pen blank jaws. 

I also got a 60 degree live and dead center to TBC.


----------



## chartle (Jan 15, 2016)

Also I need to make up a crank handle for the tailstock .


----------



## Charlie69 (Jan 15, 2016)

I like to turn one end of the blank round and chuck that part up then drill.   Does a nice job of getting things centered...


----------



## chartle (Jan 16, 2016)

Charlie69 said:


> I like to turn one end of the blank round and chuck that part up then drill.   Does a nice job of getting things centered...



It came out better than expected. Longest straightest hole I've ever drilled. The chips cleared nicely and not a lot of heat.


----------



## Drewboy22 (Jan 18, 2016)

chartle said:


> Ok after some thought I'm going the beginning of this post.
> 
> What I was looking at was this.
> 
> ...



This is what I have and still use.  The chuck is not a multi-tasker but it is small and does not weigh much - which for your case is a good thing.  I have since bought a 1/2" drill chuck for the bigger pens but I still use the jaws.


----------



## Drewboy22 (Jan 18, 2016)

chartle said:


> What I was looking at was this.
> 
> PenPal Drilling Chuck Accessory Set at Penn State Industries





oneleggimp said:


> I have that lathe and I use the PSI Pen Blank Drilling Chuck with it. (you have to get the spindle adapter since the chuck is for 1" thread and the HF lathe is 3/4 spindle thread). And I bought the keyed drill chuck from PSI as well with the MT1 taper mandrel.  Works like a charm.  You can also use the spindle adapter for other things like a screw faceplate and the PSI Bottle Stopper Chuck so it works for multiple applications.  I got the little pen blank drilling chuck (1" capacity)because of my scottish ancestors (basically I squeze the dollar so tightly the Eagle screams for mercy) but in retrospect I might have gotten the bigger one so it could be used for bottle stopper blanks, shaving brush blanks, pepper grinders and the like which the little chuck can't do.



Oneleg, if he gets the item listed above it will come with the 3/4 X 16 to 1 X 8 adapter.  No need to buy another one :wink:


----------



## chartle (Jan 18, 2016)

Ok I realized when I reread this post I was back and forth of exactly what to buy.

I bought this penn state  4 jaw chuck  and a 1/2" capacity drill chuck off of ebay.

The 4 jaw chuck also includes a 1" to 3/4" adapter and has three sets of jaws in the box. One set I've been using for drilling a few blanks but will eventually get these accessory jaws. 

https://www.pennstateind.com/store/CJAWPEN.html

As a bonus it included a wood worm.


----------



## oneleggimp (Jan 18, 2016)

chartle said:


> ok my cheap 2 1/8" quill travel drill press is just not going to cut it for me.
> 
> I just came into a little extra "fun money" and thinking of drilling on my lathe.
> 
> ...


I have the HF lathe that you have and do drill pen blanks on it using the pSI Pen drilling chuck on the headstock end (you need to buy the spindle adapter) and the drill chuck with MT in the tailstock.  Works fine for me.


----------



## chartle (Jan 18, 2016)

I realized I needed to add this to be efficient.


----------

