# CA/Carnuba wax not holding up...



## toomanysplinters (Nov 16, 2005)

Okay, It's been almost two days of use now with my second CA finshed pen and I'm seeing signs of wear already.  The finish consists of 3-4 applications of CA sanded through MM grits and a buffing with Carnuba wax.

The original finish was about the sheen that I'm seeing in these duller areas.  The carnuba waxed really shined it up nice, but am I wearing through this wax layer already[?]

Should I be applying ANYTHING over my final coat of CA?  I really like the high gloss I was getting with the wax, but if this is indicative of it's life span I'm not sure it's worth my time.

Would a plastic polish be better and leave me with a longer lasting shine?

Thanks,


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## JimGo (Nov 16, 2005)

That's a typical wax-related problem.  A plastic polish will help reduce the scratches in the CA surface, but the wax is probably going to give you the most glass-like topcoat to CA.


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## toomanysplinters (Nov 16, 2005)

That quickly though?


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## JimGo (Nov 16, 2005)

Depends on how much you're using the pen, the environment, etc.  If you do a search for some of DCBluesMan's old posts on Carnauba, you'll find a good discussion of this exact issue.


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## Dario (Nov 16, 2005)

I had similar issues with CA finish...and makes me question claims that CA is one of the most durable finish.  I may be doing something wrong but for now I  am sticking with lacquer when I can.

A few pens I made last with CA finish looks like bare wood now.  I actually volunteered to re-finish 3 that I am ashamed to claim as mine if it stays that way.

Lately, I am using CA as stabilizer/sanding sealer.  Over that, I applied lacquer and I am very pleased.


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## DCBluesman (Nov 16, 2005)

I make a product called TSW.  It is a carnauba/poly blend that will help you overcome the quick wearing of your topcoat.  It gives that glass-like appearance yet is very tough.  It can also be easily touched up with buffing by hand.  It's available from www.arizonasilhouette.com and www.pocwoodworking.com .


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## toomanysplinters (Nov 16, 2005)

I will try TSW.  I'll place an order tonight.

I'm beginning to wonder if I sanded thru the CA now, or if certain parts of the wood absorbed more of the CA.  The wood is spalted Apple and it seems as though the gloss/dull transition lines appear where the wood changes colors.  It's possible I just needed to add more coats of CA before calling it done.


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## dubdrvrkev (Nov 16, 2005)

How soon after applying the CA are you putting the wax down? If the CA is not fully cured it'll dull the wax every time. DAMHIKT


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## Gary Max (Nov 16, 2005)

There are soooooo many factors in getting a fine high gloss finish. I use TSW on every pen I make----heck I even use it to clean pens up that are covered with paw prints. You must get your base coat right or all the TSW in the world ain't going to help. Another thing---all woods do not like the same kinds of finish----heck if it's cold and overcast outside things will work differently.


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## JimGo (Nov 16, 2005)

Gary made an excellent point; different woods like different finishes.  I tend to stick with CA, but some woods give me more headaches than others.  For example, oily woods like Cocobolo, lignum vitae, most of the Rosewoods, and the like need more TLC before the CA can be applied.  In my case, the TLC is in the form of DNA being wiped on it a few times to clean up the sanding dust and the oils that have leeched out of the wood.

The problem you're describing with your apple sounds like you might be using heart and sapwood together ("where the wood changes color"); is that the case?


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## toomanysplinters (Nov 16, 2005)

The color change I'm referring to is where the spalting is occuring.


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## JimGo (Nov 16, 2005)

Ahhhh!  I wonder if that's a function of the spalt.  Did you try DNA?


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## Gary Max (Nov 16, 2005)

Then we can start talking about----is the wood dry????
If you started with wet wood you may never get it to finish right.


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## toomanysplinters (Nov 16, 2005)

I didn't try that.  What would that do?

Here's a poor picture of the spalting...




<br />


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## toomanysplinters (Nov 16, 2005)

Yes, the wood is dry.  It's been in my garage for about 4 years.


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## Gary Max (Nov 16, 2005)

At this point we are just guessing as to what is going wrong.
There are just to many answers to this question without have the wood in hand.


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## dubdrvrkev (Nov 16, 2005)

I have had similar issues and tried a few different ways of fixing it. The spalt can absorb CA, oil, or whatever at a different rate than other parts of the wood. On pens, I use thin CA first to seal the wood then move to thick, which works most of the time. Other times I use Mylands sanding sealer and that works in some cases too. Sometimes just sanding it all down and going through the process again work wonders. 
But the biggest improvement I made (thanks to Lou) was to let all coats of CA sit, at least, overnight before any sanding or other finish was applied. It takes a lot longer but my finishing has improved greatly with that change.


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## toomanysplinters (Nov 16, 2005)

I'm going to try refinishing it and see what happens.

Thanks to everyone for the tips and suggestions.


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## Fred in NC (Nov 16, 2005)

I use shellac as a sealer.  It is compatible with all kinds of finishes.


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## its_virgil (Nov 16, 2005)

Carnauba wax never holds up...(I'm speaking of pure carnauba wax, not TSW which has carnauba in its composition)

Carnauba over CA does not compute for me and I teach math. Friction polish over CA does not compute. Carnauba over anything does not compute with me. Friction polish does not compute. Maybe I'm prejudiced, but I just don't like carnauba...or cyrystal coat...or mylands...Ren Wax..or carnauba...did I mention carbauba...?

I have several pens from spalted wood and have no problems with any of them and CA as a finish. They are as shinny now as the day I made them...some get used and others are in my case. My CA finish improved greatly once I started using TSW. With CA and boiled linseed oil, the finish is so smooth after application that I've go to 1500MM, 1800MM, and then buff with tripoli, white diamonds, HUT ultra gloss and TSW...Ask Tubby...no, he would not tell a lie for me!

Dario: Send me a pen and I will refinish it for you and send it back and then you can make your final decision about CA finishes. I'm serious...or dissassemble the pen, send me the barrels and I will refinish them and send them back.

Do a good turn daily!
Don



> _Originally posted by Dario_
> <br />I had similar issues with CA finish...and makes me question claims that CA is one of the most durable finish.  I may be doing something wrong but for now I  am sticking with lacquer when I can.
> 
> A few pens I made last with CA finish looks like bare wood now.  I actually volunteered to re-finish 3 that I am ashamed to claim as mine if it stays that way.
> ...


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## Tubby (Nov 20, 2005)

I am a new pen turner, but can tell you that the CA finish that Virgil puts on is top notch.  It lasts and even I can do it as a new turner. I used a friction polish on my first 3 pens and it was gone in a week.  I took the pens back and did the CA finish because the other finish looked so bad.


Tubby


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