# Now I'm cranky-CSUSA rant



## greenmtnguy (Sep 16, 2009)

I posted in the advanced penmaking section about my problem with Statesman and Gent cap and clip fit. I arrange to send the problem parts back and everything is ok. Along with the parts I send a Statesman finished pen- not junk,  with one of Gary Max's Rosewood burl blanks as a finished pen with a crack on each side of the clip.Also a quad dyed Big Leaf Maple blank- finished mind you with a nice CA finish.-both crapped out because of the clip problem. Got the parts back fast- excellent service here-Buuuut, it seems I am out the time and blanks through no fault of mine. Not quite what I expected from CSUSA. To be fair, the return was handled fast, but with a show in 3 days, and no more of the Rosewood burl- which was killer, I am not too thrilled about that.  Life goes on, but if there is a next time, I will be demanding, not sending subtle hints. Deep breath- make pens, the show is Saturday


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## Wheaties (Sep 16, 2009)

I just called them yesterday. It was my first experience with them. I had a bad bushing for the statesman, and just told them that I would like it replaced. No problems, and they said they would just send me a whole new set. Fast and easy. A+ so far. We'll see about the shipping part of it, but I don't expect any problems.


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## Russianwolf (Sep 16, 2009)

sorry, but did the blank crack due to the kit, or you forcing the kit on when it obviously was too tight?


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## Texatdurango (Sep 16, 2009)

greenmtnguy said:


> I posted in the advanced penmaking section about my problem with Statesman and Gent cap and clip fit. I arrange to send the problem parts back and everything is ok. Along with the parts I send a Statesman finished pen- not junk, with one of Gary Max's Rosewood burl blanks as a finished pen with a crack on each side of the clip.Also a quad dyed Big Leaf Maple blank- finished mind you with a nice CA finish.-*both crapped out because of the clip problem*. Got the parts back fast- excellent service here-Buuuut, *it seems I am out the time and blanks through no fault of mine*. Not quite what I expected from CSUSA. To be fair, the return was handled fast, but with a show in 3 days, and no more of the Rosewood burl- which was killer, I am not too thrilled about that.  Life goes on, but if there is a next time, I will be demanding, not sending subtle hints. Deep breath- make pens, the show is Saturday


 Alton, I'm sorry you cracked a few blanks, but I disagree with both highlighted comments above.  There had to be a moment during assembly when you thought... "something's not right, it's taking WAY too much pressure to press these parts together,  I'd better not continue and see what's going on else I'm going to crack a blank in half".

Just curious, the way you worded your post, were you expecting CSUSA to reimburse you for your time and cost of the blanks?


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## jkeithrussell (Sep 16, 2009)

All they can or should do is replace the parts.  From what you reported, it sounds to me like they handled it very well.  I've cracked a couple of blanks the same way, and it never occured to me that I should blame CSUSA for it.


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## greenmtnguy (Sep 16, 2009)

Today I heard from our supplier concerning the acceptable tolerance for the Statesman and Gentlemen pen caps. The tolerance that they gave us was .553 inches. If any of you have any other questions, please feel free to contact Technical Support at 1-800-551-8876. 

 My Post from the original thread.
The clip hole on one is .547 and the finial that goes in the hole is .555. Big into small doesn't seem to work. The second clip hole is .546 and the finial to goes into the hole is .556

I believe with the above information, yes, I should have at least gotten some replacement blanks. I also returned a fully finished Rosewood burl pen with a cracked cap, so it is not like I want something for nothing. There is a tolerance problem. I cannot justify selling a higher end pen out for good money with a ground clip. who is going to reimburse me for the returned pen that has been modified when the original finish is guaranteed?

Statesman Pen Kit
-Craft Supplies USA Exclusive
The Statesman pen was designed with discriminating collectors in mind. Manufactured of the highest quality components, the Statesman pen offers a choice of rich 22k gold or Black Titanium hand-cast engraved insets on the cap and barrel ends surrounded by brilliant Rhodium plating. The stunning blend of colored insets and accent band combined with Rhodium plated components combine to make a distinctive pen of unrivalled beauty. Lifetime Guarantee.


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## NewLondon88 (Sep 16, 2009)

jkeithrussell said:


> All they can or should do is replace the parts.  From what you reported, it sounds to me like they handled it very well.



I wouldn't go that far. They replaced the parts (which they are obligated
to do by law and by their own guarantee) but only after trying very hard
(and more than once) to get him to modify the defective kits.
BTW, the modification they recommended would destroy the value of
the kit, and probably void their own warranty.


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## jkeithrussell (Sep 16, 2009)

I see your point.  Sorry that you've had this trouble.  I cracked the cap barrel of a Texas Flag Pen due to the same problem, so I do sympathize with you.


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## Gary Max (Sep 16, 2009)

Heck Alton-----Pm me your address and I will replace the blank ------Free-----


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## ed4copies (Sep 16, 2009)

greenmtnguy said:


> Today I heard from our supplier concerning the acceptable tolerance for the Statesman and Gentlemen pen caps. The tolerance that they gave us was .553 inches. If any of you have any other questions, please feel free to contact Technical Support at 1-800-551-8876.
> 
> Part omitted by Ed
> 
> ...



I have always wondered who defines a "lifetime".  If it cracks on assembly is it DEAD on arrival, therefore not guaranteed??


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## jttheclockman (Sep 16, 2009)

ed4copies said:


> I have always wondered who defines a "lifetime". If it cracks on assembly is it DEAD on arrival, therefore not guaranteed??


 

I tell you Ed, sometimes you make me scratch my head.


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## ed4copies (Sep 16, 2009)

jttheclockman said:


> I tell you Ed, sometimes you make me scratch my head.



Does your head frequently ITCH, when you THINK???:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

(That's OK!!!................................. just a question)


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## DCBluesman (Sep 16, 2009)

I believe CS USA did all it needs to do.  They replaced a defective part.  As for a lifetime guarantee, there is no other kind.  In the law, guarantee is a formal assurance that certain conditions will be fulfilled, especially that a product will be of a specified quality.  A warranty, on the other hand, is a written guarantee promising to repair or replace an article if necessary within a specified period.


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## jleiwig (Sep 16, 2009)

I can't see how you can blame CSUSA for your ignorance.  

If one of your customers forces a cap onto the end of a non-posting pen and cracks the cap would you replace the whole pen or refund their money? 

It's the same situation in my eyes.  I think that CSUSA has done their part by replacing the kits according to warranty.  Man up and admit that you made a mistake by trying to force it, and not saying it wasn't your fault.


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## dgscott (Sep 16, 2009)

I would say that half the Gentlemen's pens I've bought have a hole in the clip that is too small for the finial. So, I take some emery cloth, scootch it around in the hole, and VOILA -- it fits!
Doug


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## jkeithrussell (Sep 16, 2009)

DCBluesman said:


> I believe CS USA did all it needs to do. They replaced a defective part. As for a lifetime guarantee, there is no other kind. In the law, guarantee is a formal assurance that certain conditions will be fulfilled, especially that a product will be of a specified quality. A warranty, on the other hand, is a written guarantee promising to repair or replace an article if necessary within a specified period.


 
I'm sorry, but from a legal point of view, this is not correct.  The legal claim you would have here is breach of a written warranty (you can interchange the word guarantee) for a defective part.  The duration of the warranty depends on whether it was written or not.  There are lots of things short of a lifetime warranty/guarantee.  Most items come with an implied warranty that the item is of suitable quality to be fit for its intended purpose (sometimes called fitness or merchantability), but that's not a lifetime guarantee.  If the seller offers a "guarantee" for a certain period of time, then you have a claim for that as well as for fitness/merchantability, but it's basically 2 ways to get to the same place.


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## Texatdurango (Sep 16, 2009)

Oh great......... now the cyber lawyers are getting into the mix! 
 
Alton, Using your own words; _"Big into small doesn't seem to work"_, you have the solution at hand.  When something doesn't fit, stop rather than forcing it.  Had you done this, we wouldn't be having this conversation.


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## greenmtnguy (Sep 16, 2009)

George,
My big into small is after the fact. If before, you are right. we wouldn't be having this conversation. 
jleiwig
You can work on $30 dollar kits and damage the integrity of the plating. I choose  not to.. If I am ignorant because I believe I shouldn't have to, maybe I am. I'm trying to correct a manufacturing problem, not call names. Thanks for your understanding.


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## jkeithrussell (Sep 16, 2009)

Texatdurango said:


> Oh great......... now the cyber lawyers are getting into the mix!


 
Don't get saucy just because it's your birthday.


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## arioux (Sep 16, 2009)

Gary Max said:


> Heck Alton-----Pm me your address and I will replace the blank ------Free-----



Anyone noticed that post.  Are we a great group or not ? 

Great gesture Garry


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## wdcav1952 (Sep 16, 2009)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Max  
Heck Alton-----Pm me your address and I will replace the blank ------Free----- 




arioux said:


> Anyone noticed that post.  Are we a great group or not ?
> 
> Great gesture Garry



I agree, this is a wonderful gesture.


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## OKLAHOMAN (Sep 16, 2009)

Gary Max said:


> Heck Alton-----Pm me your address and I will replace the blank ------Free-----


 


arioux said:


> Anyone noticed that post. Are we a great group or not ?
> 
> Great gesture Garry


 


wdcav1952 said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by Gary Max
> Heck Alton-----Pm me your address and I will replace the blank ------Free-----
> 
> ...


 
Yep! that's just one example of the family atmosphere we have here at the IAP.


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## MesquiteMan (Sep 16, 2009)

Texatdurango said:


> Oh great......... now the cyber lawyers are getting into the mix!


 
Uh, George, Keith is a REAL lawyer, not just a cyber one!


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## ed4copies (Sep 16, 2009)

MesquiteMan said:


> Uh, George, Keith is a REAL lawyer, not just a cyber one!




Dammit Curtis (spoken in the Dr McCoy voice)!!!!

Don't cloud the issue with FACTS!!!


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## Munsterlander (Sep 16, 2009)

Gary Max said:


> Heck Alton-----Pm me your address and I will replace the blank ------Free-----



Gary, my car broke down due to a defect in a Panache kit and no matter what I said to the CSUSA customer support people, they wouldn't replace it...


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## Gary Max (Sep 16, 2009)

Alton
Hasn't been reading the small print


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## fernhills (Sep 16, 2009)

HI, i just made 7 gents 5 of the clips would not slide onto cap. You know when they tell you to use a wood jig with a hole in it, to press on a part so you do not damage the threads. That is what you have to do, press the clip onto cap. The directions say, slide the clip onto the cap and then press them into tube. You tried to press a clip on that was not properly aligned onto the cap to be pressed in, result would have to be a cracked blank. I also would never sand,grind any pen part what so ever to make it fit. Hope this helps.  Carl


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## Texatdurango (Sep 16, 2009)

jkeithrussell said:


> Don't get saucy just because it's your birthday.


How about Sauced... or at least half sauced! :biggrin:

I have been enjoying a bottle of my favorite wine celebrating my occasion.


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## MesquiteMan (Sep 16, 2009)

You freaking drunk Texan!!!  Happy Birthday, geezer!


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## TomW (Sep 16, 2009)

Texatdurango said:


> How about Sauced... or at least half sauced! :biggrin:
> 
> I have been enjoying a bottle of my favorite wine celebrating my occasion.


 
Spoken like a true North Texan.  Every nite is my occasion!

Tom


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## Jgrden (Sep 16, 2009)

TomW said:


> Spoken like a true North Texan.  Every nite is my occasion!
> 
> Tom



Glad you said "North" Tex:highfive:as, because it is either beer or Wild Turkey in South Teexas, the Piney Woods area, in specific.


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## jttheclockman (Sep 16, 2009)

ed4copies said:


> Does your head frequently ITCH, when you THINK???:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:
> 
> (That's OK!!!................................. just a question)


 

Yea but you make me think too much here.


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## StatProf (Sep 16, 2009)

ed4copies said:


> Does your head frequently ITCH, when you THINK???:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:
> 
> (That's OK!!!................................. just a question)



When this happens, I think of micromesh and the itch goes away.


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## NewLondon88 (Sep 16, 2009)

StatProf said:


> When this happens, I think of micromesh and the itch goes away.



(snicker)


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## jkeithrussell (Sep 16, 2009)

Texatdurango said:


> How about Sauced... or at least half sauced! :biggrin:
> 
> I have been enjoying a bottle of my favorite wine celebrating my occasion.


 
Good -- happy birthday!


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## Texatdurango (Sep 16, 2009)

You know, it's nice to see a thread wind down on some happy notes! Once we got Mr. cranky pants calmed down, everyone got happy... the way all threads should end!


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## el_d (Sep 16, 2009)

God bless us everyone.....:wink:


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## jppensplus (Sep 17, 2009)

A tolerance of 0.553 inches means nothing--a tolerance must include a determined size, along with expected variations--such as .550" +/- .005" inches, or whatever the tolerance is guaranteed to be--

jppensplus


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## TurnaPen (Sep 17, 2009)

I have on occasions come across the problem(s) mentioned here; first time my inexperience said "well this is what the instructions say-so continue clamping until it goes in", next few times I compensated by using  a dremmel to widen the gap so the fit was easier. Not that one should do that, but it was more expedient for me to do so.
With parts replacement, it is a nice gesture, maybe even a legal gesture, BUT, it is not a TRUE compensation of time and materials lost.
I work in Electronics, if a new Hard Drive fails, the company that manufactures the Hard Drive, replaces it--BUT-- that is the easy part, then there is DATA Rescue in some cases, and in all cases reloading of operating system and drivers, a real finincial burden to the poor person that it happens to.
Yes, the supplier can supply cheap stuff and just replace it, however there are real consequences in relation to time and money, that are never accounted for.
That is why over the years I have learnt the hard way that cheapest is not usually the cheapest.
In our case, where we are dealing with Expensive kits, I think we should get QUALITY, this is not a reflection on the Supplier, in this case CSUSA, who have done everything as promptly as possible. But it is a reflection on the Manufacturer!!
Let me say, I recently made a few Churchills, the fountain pens were giving me trouble, I finally replaced the nibs with Heritance nibs-BINGO!- problem solved. However the real problem should be fixed by the manufacturer.
As we say in Australia, I have said my "two bobs worth",  thanks , Amos


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## wdcav1952 (Sep 17, 2009)

Texatdurango said:


> You know, it's nice to see a thread wind down on some happy notes! Once we got Mr. cranky pants calmed down, everyone got happy... the way all threads should end!



George,

When you drink your favorite wine, do you every cut your nose sniffing the screw cap?  :drink::biggrin::drink:


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## MesquiteMan (Sep 17, 2009)

Come on, Cav, what's wrong with you...you know they don't have metal screw caps on those boxes of wine!


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