# Do You Own A Precision Measuring Device??



## Randy_ (Dec 23, 2006)

Do you own a precision measuring device??

P.S.  Be sure to vote before you view the poll.  If you view it first, the poll will think you have voted and will not let you vote a "second" time.


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## ctEaglesc (Dec 23, 2006)

How come thumb and index finger aren't listed? 
I guess a digital caliper from HF doesn't count either huh?
It's not the tools you have but knowing how to use them is what counts.


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## mick (Dec 23, 2006)

Bravo Eagle!!!!


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## bob393 (Dec 23, 2006)

How do I list a dial caliper? Just kidding.[]


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## Randy_ (Dec 23, 2006)

OK OK.......[][]

Guess I was a little imprecise.  I'll fix it.


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## Ron in Drums PA (Dec 23, 2006)

Measuring devices are like pencils, I'm always losing them in my shop.

That's is why I have 5 or 6 dial calipers, 6+ calipers, at least 3 micrometers and more than a dozen 6" rules. 

I'll tell you what is funny, when ever I find a missing pencil there is a missing measuring device next to it. []


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## ctEaglesc (Dec 23, 2006)

Don't forget sttring and masking tape.
Both are measuring devices in my shop.


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## Chuck Key (Dec 23, 2006)

All three if micrometer includes digital./?

Chuckie
Having a stress free weekend after celebratiing Christmas on Friday[][][][]
Kids and Grand off to NY to visit in laws!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## btboone (Dec 23, 2006)

I'm like Ron, I have a bunch posted at different spots all over the shop.  Does an optical comparator count? []


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## Randy_ (Dec 23, 2006)

> _Originally posted by btboone_
> <br />.....  Does an optical comparator count? []



Sorry, Bruce.  That goes in the same pile with eagle's string, tape, and thumb and forefinger!!  [][]


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## ctEaglesc (Dec 23, 2006)

Dividers
Diet scale
Vacuum gauge


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## wdcav1952 (Dec 23, 2006)

I didn't see close enough for government work as an option.


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## btboone (Dec 23, 2006)

The comparator actually comes in pretty handy for measuring the funky fine threads on pen parts.  They often are molded from plastic and have some shrinkage, so their tooth profiles are not normal, and the pitch diameters are not normal either.


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## Fangar (Dec 23, 2006)

You forgot Flux Capictor... Duh...

And I could live without my bifurcating angulator as well as my eliptical transfixerator.

Fangar


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## RussFairfield (Dec 23, 2006)

Yes, I bought several dial and digital calipers and micrometer calipers because everybody said I had to have them if I wanted to make better pens. I have had some of them for almost 3 years, and my pens still look the same. I bought another more expensive digital caliper yesterday. It sure is pretty. I have taken it out of the box and admired it several times. 

Tonight I am disappointed. My pens still look the same. Is there something else I need to buy??[][]


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## RussFairfield (Dec 23, 2006)

Seriously, I can't answer the poll because I use one of those cheap plastic dial calipers that reads in 1/64" and 0.010" increments and that is definitely not a "precision measuring device".

It does have some advantages. It is plastic so it doesn't dent the wood. I can read fractions directly for selecting drill sizes. The small round depth probe will fit into small holes. I can interpolate to 0.005" by reading between the lines, and that is close enough for me. Besides that, it is going on 20 years since I bought it, and I am beginning to become attached to it.


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## Ron in Drums PA (Dec 24, 2006)

> _Originally posted by RussFairfield_
> <br />Is there something else I need to buy??[][]



Yes

Machinist Square Set







These come in handy





Of course, no shop would be complete without an electron microscope to inspect our finishes


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## Randy_ (Dec 24, 2006)

Despite the feeble effort of eagle and one or two of his buddies to
trivialize this thread with their inane responses, he has actually only
managed to trivialize himself. 

I want to thank everyone who took the time to vote in the poll and to add useful and constructive comments.  I have to admit that I was surprised by the results of the initial results; but found the information to be very interesting......hope some of you did as well.   
Contrary to what most folks have assumed, the thinking behind this poll was "NOT" to look at the issue of better fitting pens and pencils.  I had something else in mind; but more about that in a future thread. 

Russ, as always, offered an interesting comment and did touch on the issue of well fitting pens and that comment raised a question  I would like to explore.   

Russ:  It is commonly accepted that a normal human can generally detect/feel a step on a smooth surface that is around 0.003".....are pen crafters normal??  Accepting that premise for the moment, the question arises as to how you can produce pens that fit well...and I am sure we all assume that you do.....when using a vernier that is only accurate to 0.005" at best??  I must admit that it has been quite a while since I reviewed your web site info on pen crafting so if the information is posted there, just refer me and I will revisit.           

 Thanks and Merry Christmas!!


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## btboone (Dec 24, 2006)

A couple rules of thumb; a piece of hair is around .002" (OK, so blond hair is thinner, but it's somewhere around there.) a piece of paper is something like .004", a credit card might be around .030".  It's good to have a feel for small measurements when making stuff.  It surprises me when I talk to customers for my rings how many are completely ignorant of measurements.  They might ask for a ring 15mm or a quarter inch wide.  Those are pretty different measurements so I'll always have to put it in terms they are used to.


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## Mudder (Dec 24, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Randy__
> <br />Despite the feeble effort of eagle and one or two of his buddies to
> trivialize this thread with their inane responses, he has actually only
> managed to trivialize himself.



I'm sorry Randy but Eagle does have some valid points and I think that Russ is eluding to the very same thing.

Working in the Quality Control field and being in charge of keeping almost 1000 instruments in calibration and traceable to N.I.S.T (National Institute of Standards and Technology) I can tell you with great certainty that not all 6" rules are the same, Not all calipers are the same. Matter of fact a 6" digital caliper in generally considered to only be accurate to an overall of .002" (that counts Inside jaws, outside jaws, step and plunge measurements combined).

This is one reason why you'll see most real old world craftsman and some new cabinetmakers who all but abandon the ruler and use story sticks. Painters tape has a pretty consistent thickness, string is very accurate (especially how Eagle uses it).

I cannot honestly say that he was not trying to trivialize your thread because I have not spoken with him about it but I can tell you that his work speaks for itself and I don't need no fancy digital caliper to turn a pen when a standard spring caliper will do the job just as well.

Unless you have your "precision Measuring Devices" calibrated every year and can prove they are traceable to N.I.S.T. you really are not doing any better than a piece of tape. Take a framing square and put the short leg to the left and draw a line, now flip it over and have the short leg to the right and draw another line; do they overlap? Do this on both the outside and inside of the square and you would be surprised how many are not square.


And before anyone asks; No I do not calibrate my woodworking instruments, although I do check them occasionally against a known standard to be sure of my own level of accuracy.


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## wdcav1952 (Dec 24, 2006)

One or two?  I think I counted more posters than that with a sense of humor.  Some of my pens may not be accurate to 0.002, but I like them and am not ashamed to post them for everyone to see.  It may just be me, but turning pens is not a great scientific endeavour, and should be treated as fun rather than an exercise of my caliper is bigger, better, or whatever than yours.


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## KKingery (Dec 28, 2006)

Just a caliper for me.


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## ilikewood (Dec 28, 2006)

HEY....KEN'S BACK!!![]


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## OKLAHOMAN (Dec 28, 2006)

Own two calibers digital and dial and use one of them on each pen and if I get to within 0.002 thats close enough for me and the government. If the pen  does not look or feel proud or vise versa at the all the  places that the blank meets metal thats all that matters


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## RussFairfield (Dec 29, 2006)

There have been some derisive comments made about Eagle's fingers being precision instruments. Those who made them are wrong.

We can measure the bushings to determine that they are the same diameter as the metal fittings that they mate up with. There is also a general agreement that most people can tell a difference as small as 0.002" (or was it 0.005?) between diameters that are next to each other.

Shouldn't it follow that Eagle can turn the pen barrel to within a similar tolerance by feeling the difference in diameter between the bushing and the pen barrel??


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## GreggR (Dec 30, 2006)

Russ is right about one thing... plastic doesn't dent/mar the wood. I use both a dial caliper and a 0-1" micrometer. I use the dial to check AFTER I've applied CA and sanded, that way it doesn't tend to dent the wood. I bought the 0-1" for work, don't use it there anymore. Even though it has a friction thimble it has carbide faces, so any side movement acts like a pair of vise grips and mars the surface. I only use it when making aluminum bushings. I think calipers are good, cuz' I don't have a calibrated finger like some of the old timers. Yet.

Optical Comparator for threads??! $10K machine for a $12 pen? How do you decide the cross hairs are on the pitch diameter?? Always use thread wires and an OD micrometer for thread gaging! That said, if it won't assembly easy one can always file down the threads and use epoxy... []


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## btboone (Dec 31, 2006)

MSC had a comparitor on sale for a fraction of the usual price.  I use it in checking set diamonds in my rings.   It does come in handy for the pen threads though.  The molded threads on the small pen parts aren't the usual 60 degree angle threads.  They are pointier and more rounded at the ends.  That's why it helps to look at them under magnification.  Finding the exact pitch diameter isn't actually as necessary as finding the theoretical point outside the threads.  This is the number my lathe works off of when making taps or threads.  The actual pitch is pretty important, and with plastic shrinkage, they are not the usual numbers either.  This is where I can fudge the numbers to make non standard taps that actually match the parts instead of what they should be.  The pitch on one measured .68mm for example.  It's not to say that other methods won't work, but I can usually nail the threads the first time when using the technique.


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## Ozzy (Jan 17, 2007)

I go by the feel of it in my hand and by eyeballing the size of it. Eyeballing seems to be a big selling point for me, my customers like the fact that each pen and pencil is some what unique in that aspect.


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