# Eagle



## Ron in Drums PA (May 21, 2007)

So look what Eagle sent me






Eagle and I talked about what type of kit would work best, I'm thinking of a closed end pen. 

What do you think?


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## Paul in OKC (May 21, 2007)

Very sweet. I have a coupe of Eaglized blanks just waiting to be turned as well! Fun fun fun!


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## alamocdc (May 21, 2007)

KEWL, Ron! Can't wait to see what you do with it.[]


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## gerryr (May 21, 2007)

Great looking blank.  How long is the part with the inlays?


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## GaryMGg (May 21, 2007)

How long is the blank from inlay end to inlay end? Is it already round? It's not drilled yet is it?

Gary


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## JimGo (May 21, 2007)

WOW!  That looks like feathers (eagle feathers?)!  With as detailed as that is, I'd be inclined to try a less ornamental kit, like a Cigar or a Baron/Gent/Jr. Gent.


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## Ron in Drums PA (May 21, 2007)

> _Originally posted by GaryMGg_
> <br />How long is the blank from inlay end to inlay end? Is it already round? It's not drilled yet is it?
> 
> Gary



The length of the inlays is 5". It is round, but not drilled yet



> _Originally posted by JimGo_
> <br />I'd be inclined to try a less ornamental kit, like a Cigar or a Baron/Gent/Jr. Gent.



That is what we thought too. 
I have to check to see if the tubes are long enough on a cigar, I'm pretty sure they're long enough on a Jr. Gent.


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## ed4copies (May 21, 2007)

The BLANK will make a cigar, Ron. (I am assuming yours is the same size mine was).  However, the selling price of a cigar led me to choose the Jr. Statesman.  

This is, of course, between you and Eagle, but you wouldn't have posted it if all decisions were already made, would you???[8D]


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## ed4copies (May 21, 2007)

Having this example "fall into my hands" with permission to use it as I see fit, I will show that the blank most probably COULD make a cigar, and a darn handsome one at that!!!





<br />


But, I still think it will be hard to price it to recover the cost of labor (in MY market - maybe NOT where you are going with it!)


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## cozee (May 21, 2007)

As usual the craftsmanship is top notch but seems to be quite busy. Everything runs together in the middle of the blank losing the patterns due to the heavy overlapping. Sometimes less is more as is the case with the picture Ed posted. It will be nice to see it completed and with a finish though.


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## Ron in Drums PA (May 21, 2007)

> _Originally posted by ed4copies_
> <br />Having this example "fall into my hands" with permission to use it as I see fit, I will show that the blank most probably COULD make a cigar, and a darn handsome one at that!!!
> 
> 
> ...



Eagle just sent me that photo too. He did a nice job on that one too.


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## Texatdurango (May 21, 2007)

> _Originally posted by Ron in Drums PA_
> <br />....Eagle and I talked about what type of kit would work best, I'm thinking of a closed end pen.
> 
> What do you think?


Definately a closed end Jr Gent!  With that kind of art work I wouldn't want anything, be it platinum, silver or gold, distracting from it.

I've seen segmented pens and wave pens but never anything like this.  For those who know, we've got to be talking plenty of man hours to create something like that, right?

My hat's off to eagle, I never saw any of his work, I thought he was just an old grump like me that didn't like kit pens![]

George


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## MesquiteMan (May 21, 2007)

What exactly is the purpose of this thread except to stir up trouble and muddy the waters????  You guys know that the whole Eagle thing is very controversial here at IAP and that Eagle is no longer a member here due to this controversy.  What are your trying to accomplish by this thread?


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## Texatdurango (May 21, 2007)

> _Originally posted by MesquiteMan_
> <br />What exactly is the purpose of this thread except to stir up trouble and muddy the waters????  You guys know that the whole Eagle thing is very controversial here at IAP and that Eagle is no longer a member here due to this controversy.  What are your trying to accomplish by this thread?


Oops, I plead the fifth... I just saw a blank, the likes I have not seen before and commented on it.  I barely know bits and pieces of the controversy surrounding the players.  

No agenda here! []


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## Ron in Drums PA (May 21, 2007)

Curtis, yours is the first negative post in this thread. Since when is it wrong for me to post a pen blank that someone has given me?

Of all the people on IAP, I probably had more problems with Eagle than any one else and yet he sends me a pen blank. 

Eagle had no idea I was going to post this blank on IAP, I did it because I wanted some feed back.


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## its_virgil (May 21, 2007)

So we can only show blanks made by IAP members? This thread has not even mentioned anything negaive about eagle....until this post. Give it a chance so our new members can see what is possible with imagination and talent. 
Do a good turn daily!
Don


> _Originally posted by MesquiteMan_
> <br />What exactly is the purpose of this thread except to stir up trouble and muddy the waters????  You guys know that the whole Eagle thing is very controversial here at IAP and that Eagle is no longer a member here due to this controversy.  What are your trying to accomplish by this thread?


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## ericw95 (May 21, 2007)

Well said Don.  I joined IAP right at the end of the Eagle 'thing'.  Since that time, I have been inspired to try different things because of what I have seen here or dare I say while visiting another site or two.  I know I don't have the patience to ever make a blank like the one in this thread but I now know it is possible if I ever had the patience or available time to get into my shop.

Would it have been better if his first name was used instead of his handle?


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## wdcav1952 (May 21, 2007)

Ron,

I have a similar blank and have come to the conclusion that it will become a closed end Jr. Gent.  That is what I made with the cross inlay blank I got from Eagle, and am very happy with how it turned out.  Now, I just have to get my nerve up to drill the blank!!!  []


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## Texatdurango (May 21, 2007)

> _Originally posted by its_virgil_
> <br />... Give it a chance so our new members can see what is possible with imagination and talent.
> Do a good turn daily!
> Don


I second that!  I'm here to learn what I can, help others when I can and if either of those fail, just tell a joke to put a smile on someones face!

I thought these blanks were painted and just learned that they are inlays, done piece by piece!  Now that's something for me to shoot for once I get my "bushing to bushing" lines nice and straight![]

George


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## gerryr (May 21, 2007)

Curtis,
I think your post was completely un-called for.  I don't believe the TOS states that we cannot post pictures of blanks made by non-members or former members.  This post was about the blank, not about Eagle and I think you should keep your personal feelings about him out of it.


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## MesquiteMan (May 21, 2007)

OK guys, I admit I was wrong.  I posted in haste and should not have.  I would delete my reply but many would consider that as being chicken.

Gerry, I do not have any personal feelings about Eagle one way or another.  I don't hate him or worship him and I certainly do not have any bias as a moderator one way or another.


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## gerryr (May 21, 2007)

Curtis, this post was always about the blank.  Your post did not come across as unbiased.  Others may not have read it that way, and if they didn't they're welcome to hammer me for it.


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## MesquiteMan (May 21, 2007)

Yeah, I guess now looking back that it could be seen that way, Gerry.  I do my darndest to always be unbiased and to not take sides.


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## penhead (May 22, 2007)

If this topic is about the blank, please stick to conversation about the blank, and move on.

Thank you.


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## wdcav1952 (May 22, 2007)

> _Originally posted by penhead_
> <br />If this topic is about the blank, please stick to conversation about the blank, and move on.
> 
> Thank you.



Excellent advice, particularly for moderators.


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## penhead (May 22, 2007)

I do NOT see your reply as speaking about the blank.

With your reply, are you suggesting that you would like to see this topic locked.

Again, I am kindly requesting that _ALL_ replies be on topic, and that topic is the blank.




> _Originally posted by wdcav1952_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...


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## cozee (May 22, 2007)

Curtis, thanks for being concerned about a topic which by the title alone could have been, or still be, an explosive thread. As with all of us, experiences sometimes causes us to react at times with less tact than at other instances.


As for the topic being simply about the blank, perhaps some wording could have been better thought out. General references such as friend or fellow turner would have been a better selection as opposed to using actual names considering the potential of controversy. Experience has proven this!


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## Ozzy (May 22, 2007)

WOW!


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## DCBluesman (May 22, 2007)

Jeff Brown - THIS is the type of conversation that caused some of us to enjoy TPWU.  I've been one of your Mods, albeit a poor one in your words.  The clearly biased tone of virtually every post by a Mod is in direct conflict with an open forum.  The "keep it on topic" subterfuge is a lame attempt at closing down discussion.  MANY threads go this far off topic without anything being said.  Because this thread is about a controversial figure, "on topic" is being abused in order to mold the tone, intent and attitude of the members. No moderation is preferable to censoring moderation.  At least in my (NEVER HUMBLE) opinion.


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## its_virgil (May 22, 2007)

We were until...the moderators jumped in.
Do a good turn daily!
Don


> _Originally posted by penhead_
> <br />If this topic is about the blank, please stick to conversation about the blank, and move on.
> 
> Thank you.


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## penhead (May 22, 2007)

Even after I have as a moderator politely requested that everyone please make this topic about the blank and/or penturning, even one of the members stated that this topic was about nothing but the blank, it seems that this topic is destined to be led in a spiraling downhill turn.

I have locked this thread, and will discuss with Jeff and other moderators if there has been enough disrespect to a moderators request, or if this topic should be unlocked.

Thank you for your patience and understanding.


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## jeff (May 22, 2007)

> _Originally posted by DCBluesman_
> <br />Jeff Brown - THIS is the type of conversation that caused some of us to enjoy TPWU.  I've been one of your Mods, albeit a poor one in your words.  The clearly biased tone of virtually every post by a Mod is in direct conflict with an open forum.  The "keep it on topic" subterfuge is a lame attempt at closing down discussion.  MANY threads go this far off topic without anything being said.  Because this thread is about a controversial figure, "on topic" is being abused in order to mold the tone, intent and attitude of the members. No moderation is preferable to censoring moderation.  At least in my (NEVER HUMBLE) opinion.


Hi Lou - What would be "non-censoring" moderation, if a simple "keep it on topic" is not acceptable? It seems to me that ANY moderation implies SOME level of censorship. 

Of course, one purpose of moderation is to control behavior, such as personal attacks. We try (and sometimes fail) at that, but beyond being referees, what IS acceptable moderation?


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## penhead (May 22, 2007)

OK, everyone taken their shots at moderators, Jeff, rules, etc, in the other thread..??!!

When I locked the thread, it appeared to me that this thread was about to start a rapid downward spiral.  I asked politely (even said please) that the thead be kept on topic. Some people read a lot more into that than was there, some even took to task the wording 'on topic'.  Perhaps the wording was my fault, because I evidently thought the thread was about the first blank (with pic) that was posted.

As history proves, another thread about this thread was almost immediatley started, and most of the posts posted there are ones that at least _I_ was suspecting to be part of this thread. So in unlocking this thread now, I guess you can continure to post your parting shots in the _other_ thread, or continue posting material relevant to the original intent of this thread.

To clear the air a bit, locking the thread was NOT about censoring, or stifling the Ealge. I personally have nothing against the person, have never met him, don't even know his real name. 

And, for the record, I have been doing quite a bit of segmented work lately. Looking at the blank that Ron posted made me stare at it for quite some time wondering if it was segmented or inlay, and mostly how the heck he did that.  It looked like feathers to me.

If you have read this far, and still don't understand why it was locked, perhaps this link will help, maybe not.
http://www.penturners.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=24575&whichpage=1#255308


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## Dario (May 22, 2007)

Thank you John.

Just know that we are not taking shots...just expressing how I/we felt in hope that we all learn from it.  If we don't talk about it then it will most likely keep happening.  It can turn into a "rust" that will eat through IAP and we don't want that.

As I said, the this site is still my favorite and believe is the best.  That is due to Jeff and moderators like you.

I would hazard to say that no one questioned/challenged the admin/moderators ...but like friend to another, I would voice out when I feel it is needed.  Believe me, a true friend shouldn't stay silent.


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## GaryMGg (May 22, 2007)

> _Originally posted by Dario_
> <br />Thank you John.
> 
> Just know that we are not taking shots...just expressing how I/we felt in hope that we all learn from it.  If we don't talk about it then it will most likely keep happening.  It can turn into a "rust" that will eat through IAP and we don't want that.
> ...



Dario,
Quit typing my words.
[]

John, I also do not think I was taking a shot at you -- I don't know you yet, and wouldn't disabuse you simply 'cause I didn't agree with your action.

I will know my friends; a friend will criticize me to my face. My enemies will only criticize me behind my back.
I haven't met anyone here I'm willing to do that to.

To Jeff and the moderator team:
Thank you all for unlocking this thread.

And, I know he can't post, but I'm pretty certain he is reading this, so:
Hey Eagle, how come you didn't send me one of these blanks? What am I chopped liver?!?  [}]


Gary


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## GaryMGg (May 22, 2007)

> _Originally posted by Ron in Drums PA_
> <br />... I'm thinking of a closed end pen.
> What do you think?



I'm thinking that hand cutting the blank with a veneer saw
will take out the smallest kerf possible.
The missing wood will be almost indistinguishable with one of those.

Gary


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## airrat (May 22, 2007)

There was an article in Woodturning design that showes something similiar.   I dont believe it has the curve Eagle's does.   P. 36

If I am wrong and its not even close forgive me.


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## Ron in Drums PA (May 22, 2007)

> _Originally posted by airrat_
> <br />There was an article in Woodturning design that showes something similiar.   I dont believe it has the curve Eagle's does.   P. 36
> 
> If I am wrong and its not even close forgive me.




Glad you noticed that.

It's basically the same technique. Eagle's just has more inlays.


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## ahoiberg (May 22, 2007)

so, sorry for asking such a juvenile question regarding the blank and maybe it was already fielded, but this thread was kinda hard to follow.

are those inlays on the blank done with an exacto knife or something? and are the inlays themselves just REALLY thin pieces of wood or some other material?


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## ed4copies (May 22, 2007)

They are REALLY thin inlay and they do NOT mirror on the other side of the blank.  Instead every line is parallel to the last one.  It's quite amazing and LOTS of work.


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## vick (May 22, 2007)

> _Originally posted by ahoiberg_
> <br />so, sorry for asking such a juvenile question regarding the blank and maybe it was already fielded, but this thread was kinda hard to follow.
> 
> are those inlays on the blank done with an exacto knife or something? and are the inlays themselves just REALLY thin pieces of wood or some other material?



I would guess Eagle is useing a small Diablo 7 1/4 inch saw blade in a table saw to cut the blanks on a  an angled sled, then useing laminated veneer cut with a Dave Reed Smith vacum rip fence to fill the saw kerf.  
It is just a guess though. 
 Ron Sardo has an article in the 2006 library on how to do something similiar but he is using solid wood instead of laminated veneer for the inlays.


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## Darley (May 23, 2007)

This is a nice looking blank and very neat pen.

Now a little bit of my thinking here, why do we have to lock this topic?? maybe you was right and vise to see the storm coming because of the creator of the blank, I repeat Don question, are we here to share our skill or not and how to do this? if yes let share if not then you shouldn't be here, we are here to share our knowledge and to upgrade ourself for our hobi, Eagle don't do any tutorial ( sorry he did 1 ) please read it and read it, you will find lots of help bettween lines and words I'm not here to save is back but to make you understand is skills ( I hope so[] )   



> _Originally posted by penhead_
> <br />
> To clear the air a bit, locking the thread was NOT about censoring, or stifling the Ealge. I personally have nothing against the person, have never met him, don't even know his real name.
> 
> And, for the record, I have been doing quite a bit of segmented work lately. Looking at the blank that Ron posted made me stare at it for quite some time wondering if it was segmented or inlay, and mostly how the heck he did that.  It looked like feathers to me.



Let me try to explain this blank for you if I realy understood Eagle way.

First look the blank, save and enlarge it, IMHO this blank was Octogonal ( so turn 8 time when cuting for the inlay ), cut is maybe say 30 degree more or less ( up to people to try different angle, that why we got scrape wood [] ), cuts as been made on table saw 1/2 way through the blank ( if you look Ron Mc as I done is X pen you will undrestand, but  do not cut the blank in half ) let me explain the blank is 3/4 right? the hight of your table saw blade  would be ?? ....................1/2 this size, if people read before Eagle posts they will see he use Reed vaccumm slide table and he do is own veneer as well, now if you read and look at is only tutorial you will notice that Eagle use a Diabolo blade so the inlay is the kef size of the blade, now he is the tricky part I think he turn around the blank to do the last cuts ( I mean 4 cuts 1 way (( let say side1,3,5,7 )), turn the blank over and do the last 4 cuts the other way (( let say side 2,4,6,8)), I may be wrong but is good to try, if you don't try you will never know[] ) SO........... let's give a try.

Sorry Eagle if I explaind your secrets []


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## gerryr (May 23, 2007)

Serge,
I don't think you need to apologize to Eagle for explaining his "secrets."  He doesn't mind if someone figures out how he does something like this blank.  In fact, he would probably be the first to congratulate someone who did the same thing.


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## ed4copies (May 23, 2007)

That IS exactly correct.

Eagle would congratulate someone who DOES the same thing.  

Having explained the technique you THINK he employed, once you try it, you will have to "iron out a few details".  AT THAT POINT, you gain a greater respect for the finished pen.

GIVE IT A WHIRL!!!![][]  Post the pen, when it's done!


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## cozee (May 23, 2007)

> _Originally posted by ed4copies_
> <br />That IS exactly correct.
> 
> Eagle would congratulate someone who DOES the same thing.
> ...



Please do not imply that is exactly what he would do anyone.  I received a different treatment when it came to shell casings.


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## GaryMGg (May 23, 2007)

> _Originally posted by cozee_
> Please do not imply that is exactly what he would do anyone....



This IS the type of post that's NOT NEEDED. I don't know much history but I know the history between these two is bad.
Without the ability to defend himself, NONE of us should saying anything further about the MAN personally. Talk about his skill all we want, but leave HIM out.

Please.

Respectfully,
Gary


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## Mikey (May 23, 2007)

Vick and Darley have it right. The one thing that may not have been addressed was that someone said the inlays were paraller to ech other, which would be very easy to do if you already have the strips cutthat are going to be glued in. 

If you have the strips, simply pile them up behind the blank on the sled. As you make each cut and turn the blank, remove one of the strips. As you remove the strips, you "advance" the blank by that given dimension. You now can make each cut exactly the same distance from the next while still keeping all cuts parallel to each other. Once you trun the blank, those cuts look round, instead of straight.

Don't ask me to try this right now as I can barely even walk into my garage, let alone work at my table saw.[]

&lt;edit for Gary&gt; Gary, if you just posted to Cozee that we don't need what he wrote, why did you not take the previous poster to task the same way for posting his characterization?


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## ed4copies (May 23, 2007)

> _Originally posted by Mikey_
> <br />Vick and Darley have it right. The one thing that may not have been addressed was that someone said the inlays were paraller to ech other, which would be very easy to do if you already have the strips cutthat are going to be glued in.
> If you have the strips, simply pile them up behind the blank on the sled. As you make each cut and turn the blank, remove one of the strips. As you remove the strips, you "advance" the blank by that given dimension. You now can make each cut exactly the same distance from the next while still keeping all cuts parallel to each other. Once you trun the blank, those cuts look round, instead of straight.
> 
> ...



Keep in mind that the blank has a curve in the pattern.

While I never pretended to be an expert on this type of work, I look forward to hearing the explanation of HOW you are going to cut a curved line with a straight table saw blade???  Then repeat it exactly many times over!!!

I am willing to be informed, tho'!!!


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## Mikey (May 23, 2007)

OK, I see what you mean by curve. I attempted on a piece of paper to mimic what I was talking about with the cut and the curve went in the opposite direction from what the blank goes in. 

Now I'm thinking router table and some sort of small dovetail bit or straight 3/32 bit and a jig. Either way, the position being exactly the same on all cuts could be accomplished by using the laminates as spacers on the sled/jig for the blank. (almost just pulling stuff out my butt now[])


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## ilikewood (May 23, 2007)

I know, but I ain't saying![}]  As Eagle would say, figure it out for yourself!! []

Actually Eagle was very secretive because he wanted people to try and figure it out.  If he gave away all his secrets, it takes away from the creative juices of others (as he stated it).


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## ed4copies (May 23, 2007)

This type of conversation is the way GREAT processes are refined.

However, not EVERYONE is given the ability to type without offending.  I HOPE to achieve that and CONSTANTLY THINK about HOW my words can be misconstrued.  
Not all of my friends are equally diplomatic.

Eagle has informed me that I am not completely accurate, however.  The pen with which I am most familiar was the Ebony and bloodwood I posted a couple days ago.  IT has a curve to the pattern and all the sides are parallel.  I marvel at the workmanship.  However, I HAVE been told the process to make THAT pen is NOT identical to the two pictured here, so it is POSSIBLE that YOUR suggestion COULD achieve this result.


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## cozee (May 23, 2007)

> _Originally posted by GaryMGg_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...



Nothing in my statement requires a defense. All I did was simply ask that a statement not be made that isn't entirely true. And no, you only know part of the history. I never recall you asking for nor I discussing with you my side of the story nor the emails I have received.


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## Nolan (May 23, 2007)

Is this not like this pen I did only lots more and smaller inlays? It looks to be same to me his is just 10 sided or so and multi layered. And of course super design and fit.. I cant imagine the time to get the inlays so nice.

<b>Image Insert:</b><br />


<br />


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## ed4copies (May 23, 2007)

I asked Eagle for a direct quote to respond to this question, so it could not be stated that I was misinterpreting HIS thoughts.  My e-mail arrived and is quoted below:

Eagle said:
_"BTW the blank is based on a hex but there are 12 columns of "Flairs"
I would say, based on the info provided in the thread they should go for it!"_

His e-mail goes on to explain TO ME the differences in the method of getting THIS pattern, as distinquished from MY ebony.  So, in the future I will make certain ALL of my statements are 100% true and accurate.  I hope everyone else will do the same.

Thanks


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## GaryMGg (May 23, 2007)

Greg,



> ...And no, you only know part of the history. I never recall you asking for nor I discussing with you my side of the story nor the emails I have received.


The portion of the statement I quoted is an inference that suggests Eagle would NOT congratulate someone who figures out how he produces something. More than that, you're following sentence of personal experience goes further to suggest that anyone who copies his method will receive harsh and abusive treatment. That is how I read what you wrote. And, that is something I believe an individual would want to defend themself over.

Now then:
I know as little of the history as I can! I work to stay out of personality politics. I get along with Eagle, I get along with you.
When Eagle starts telling me his story, I typically tell him not to.
IF I hadn't been on this forum when you and Eagle were banned, I wouldn't know any of the history between you.
It's not that I don't care; it's that if two adults can't solve the problems they have between themselves, I certainly can't so why get myself dragged between them?!?
Having said that, I still say NO ONE needs to say ANYTHING about another individual -- talk about the CRAFT all day long, leave the CRAFTER out of it.

Regards,
Gary


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## gerryr (May 23, 2007)

> _Originally posted by GaryMGg
> <br />
> 
> I still say NO ONE needs to say ANYTHING about another individual -- talk about the CRAFT all day long, leave the CRAFTER out of it.
> ...




Well said and I think something that should be adopted by all immediately.


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## cozee (May 23, 2007)

> _Originally posted by gerryr_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...



Funny thing is, you agree as long as it fits your purpose. Sadly, this thread from the beginning goes against what you just supported.  I tell ya what. I am simply going to take the summer off!! Got more important things to take care of in life than pens. See ya!


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## leehljp (May 23, 2007)

> Keep in mind that the blank has a curve in the pattern.
> 
> While I never pretended to be an expert on this type of work, I look forward to hearing the explanation of HOW you are going to cut a curved line with a straight table saw blade???  Then repeat it exactly many times over!!!
> 
> I am willing to be informed, tho'!!!



By looking at the picture, it is easy to count the sides that he had - 6 or 12 by the number of individual inlays at one end. The curve is an illusion of sorts or that can be seen in the mind's eye before the turning - by making strait cuts at an angle on a square or hex blank - then turning it round.  Celtic knots on pens are nothing more than thin slices of flat straight wood segmented into the blank then turned round. 

I suspect that Eagle made numerous parallel cuts at an angle from one edge of the hex, and then followed this by doing the same down each edge of the hex. After smoothing the six sides off, he then made parallel cuts again on each side of the hex - starting in the middle of each side instead of the edge.

That may not be clear but looking at his pattern, it is easy (for me) to see what is happening. It helps that I have been experimenting with a similar cut on 4 and 8 sides.

A KEY to me is that the blanks must be nearly perfectly square, hex or octogonal down the whole length of the blank. To me, it takes a good jig, good hold down and a good saw sled. But with these three, practice and patience, it becomes very doable!

As far as CURVES go, the picture that Nolan posted above - one without experience might view the inlays as curves. But with exprience, it will probably be veiwed as a straight piece placed in a cross cut angle slot in the wood and turned round.


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## GaryMGg (May 23, 2007)

The pen blank Ron has is one Eagle modified by taking RPM's concept and tweaking it.
Here's a link to the early post with a version of the current blank being discussed.
http://www.penturners.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=6538&SearchTerms=120,cut,spiral

Cat. Bag. Out. Let the mayhem begin. One word of caution: don't do these without a dedicated jig -- your digits be too valuable. []

Edited by request from the craftsman asking that this picture be included since he was told It can't be done (Ebony with brass inlay):






Gary


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## Ron in Drums PA (May 23, 2007)

Some of you have the right idea on how to make this pen. What Eagle did was laminate three strips of wood together to the same thickness as a kerf from a table saw blade. Then he cut the laminates into strips and laid the strips into the kerfs. The greater the angle of the kerf, the more "wrap around" or curved the look. Also the depth of the cut has a lot to do with the curve.


http://woodturningdesign.com/issues/current.shtml


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## wdcav1952 (May 23, 2007)

Thank you Ron and Gary for getting this discussion back on track.  I am afraid that my skill level requires that I remain on the sideline marveling at such work.


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## RPM (May 23, 2007)

I say the pens and blanks are a creation of photoshop!  It can't be done. []

I've enjoyed watching and participating in this evolution.  I salute the skill that has been exhibited by all that have tried it.

Richard (RPM)


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## JimGo (May 23, 2007)

> _Originally posted by wdcav1952_
> <br />Thank you Ron and Gary for getting this discussion back on track.  I am afraid that my skill level requires that I remain on the sideline marveling at such work.



Here here.  BTW, I stand corrected - the slightly busy looking CB on that last pen compliments the pattern quite well.


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## Darley (May 23, 2007)

Hooooo bother! I forgot 4 sides[][][xx(], Thanks Lee to explain this, that would help members and to try this type of pen probebly with less cuts, I cut some veneer for a pen ( I will post it when finish ) I don't have table saw, I cut it with my drop saw here's the size


<br /> 

Greg ( Cozee ) everyone know as Eagle speak but I can say the same thing I say to my children "" 2 wrong doesn't make right ""


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## Ron in Drums PA (May 23, 2007)

This is what the blanks look like


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## Texatdurango (May 23, 2007)

I'm sure by now that there are members rolling their eyes about this thread wondering what the value of such bantering is.

Well, I for one would be without a tremendous amount of knowledge had it not been from reading all this.

This thread sparked my interest when I saw eagles pen and got to wondering how did he do it and more to the point, could I do the same thing?  Today, when I saw the pen Nolan (n4631x) posted I just had to know whatâ€™s going on so emailed him and he was more than happy to share his knowledge.

Soâ€¦ Thanks to Ron for the thread, Thanks to the admin for leaving it open, Thanks to Nolan for the help and thanks to the guy who made the blank to begin with for the inspiration!

And now, without further adoâ€¦. My first inlayâ€¦â€¦.. Donâ€™t laugh,[] this is not going on a pen, itâ€™s just practice, the main thing is that it worked! 

The Baltic plywood was a hair thinner than the kerf my saw left so I inserted some thin aluminum shim stock on either side of one of the pieces and it actually turned out well. Hmm, I wonder how brass or copper would look?  

George




<br />


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## Dario (May 23, 2007)

You did really well George!

BTW, that is the beauty of a forum...each discussion can evolve to something better than anyone planned.  Of course some may go south but that is far in between.

Very good job!!!


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## GaryMGg (May 23, 2007)

Hey George, did I say you're a natural. Did I huh, did I?!? []

Thank you for providing further proof to the value of such discussions even if they require a little bit of ledge-gripping excitement. Where would your next pen be had this thread not come along?

Tennis anyone?
Game, set, match. [}][]

Oh yeah, is that bubinga for the main body of the barrel?

Gary


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## alamocdc (May 23, 2007)

> _Originally posted by Darley_
> <br />Hooooo bother! I forgot 4 sides[][][xx(], Thanks Lee to explain this, that would help members and to try this type of pen probebly with less cuts, I cut some veneer for a pen ( I will post it when finish ) I don't have table saw, I cut it with my drop saw here's the size
> 
> 
> ...



Serge, that's an awfully thin cut for a drop saw! Just thinking about it scares me to death and I'm fearless! What ever you do, BE CAREFUL when making cuts like that![]


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## Darley (May 24, 2007)

> _Originally posted by alamocdc_
> <br />Serge, that's an awfully thin cut for a drop saw! Just thinking about it scares me to death and I'm fearless! What ever you do, BE CAREFUL when making cuts like that![]



No worries Billy I use double side tape and waste block to hold my blank, got all my fingers still[]


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## gketell (May 24, 2007)

For those who've said you could get the equally spaced cuts just by stacking the filler shims...   Sorry, it isn't that simple.  You have to have the shims PLUS the width of the space between the cuts.  Otherwise you end up just cutting the wood away like using the saw to cut our a wide rabbet.  

Look at a "finger joint" jig.  It has a stop block the width of the slot spaced away from the saw the width of the spacer.

I guess if you were doing a blank where the grooves were some multiple of the kerf size apart you could just remove two or three shims.

This entire thread goes right to what Eagle told me a while ago (my interpretation of his logic):  If someone tells you how to do something you go from your skill "A" directly to Z.  If they make you figure it out for yourself you go from A through B-Y to Z.  Your next project my use Q and R and you now have the skill.  If you didn't work it out yourself you wouldn't have those skills.

GK


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## DocStram (May 24, 2007)

> _Originally posted by gketell_
> <br />
> This entire thread goes right to what Eagle told me a while ago (my interpretation of his logic):  If someone tells you how to do something you go from your skill "A" directly to Z.  If they make you figure it out for yourself you go from A through B-Y to Z.  Your next project my use Q and R and you now have the skill.  If you didn't work it out yourself you wouldn't have those skills.
> 
> GK


Sorry to disagree with what you assume to be a matter of logic. IMHO it comes down to one's personal philosophy of what it means to help others advance their skills. It's the same old story that we've heard before ... this field has been furrowed before ...... I'm not interested in plowing it again. []


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## gketell (May 24, 2007)

you are correct, it is a personal philosophy.  In college I had a professor who would teach you A-D but on the tests he would ask you questions about D-F expecting that if you had learned A-D well enough you could extrapolate.  I feel he was my best professor ever.

Now in that same class there was a woman whose lifetime average grade up to that point was 108%. (We had been going to school together since Elementary School.)  She absolutely hated that class because her method was to memorize everything and parrot back exactly what she was taught and she had no ability to think for herself beyond what she was taught.  She quickly dropped that class.

So who is the better teacher and who is the better student?  *SHRUG*  It is a matter of personal preference.  But if you don't like one method or the other does not mean that it is a WRONG method, just that it isn't YOUR method and you should not take offense (or give offense) because of the difference of opinion.

This is, of course, all MY opinion and if you disagree I am happy to take up the philisophical discussion as long as people don't start getting personal.  []

GK


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## Mikey (May 24, 2007)

The better student is the one who is making the most money right now.[]


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## gketell (May 24, 2007)

Ahhhhh, another philosophical question Mikey.  Is more money the root of all happiness?

And another: is getting more money all skill, or luck or both?  And/or does skill help lead to luck?

I know my answer was that skill got me in the right place that luck was able to come into play.  If only I had sold "high". [)]

GK


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## ed4copies (May 24, 2007)

Mike, 

By your measure, Bill Gates would, of necessity, be the BEST student in the world - but, he quit school (and he has said in interviews he was NOT an exceptional student).

Many RICH people are unhappy.  

Just Food For Thought, no offense or real POINT intended.


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## Mikey (May 24, 2007)

Ed, Bill Gates must have learned more than enough in school to make the decisions he made. Someone doesn't become the richest person on earth by accident.

Greg, I can tell you for sure that money does buy hapiness. I'm sure at some point too much money could lead to misery, but when you have none and are struggling to survive, nothing makes you happier than being able to pay your bills and have enough left over to take your S/O out to dinner.


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## GaryMGg (May 24, 2007)

Mike,
Reminds me of what my dad used to say:

You can be rich and miserable or you can be poor and miserable. But you can be a whole lot more comfortable while your miserable when you're rich. []


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## gketell (May 24, 2007)

No argument there, Mikey.  But "enough money" is different than "the most money".  []

Philisophical question: Just what is ENOUGH money?? [}]

But this is even further off topic than any of the other tangents in this thread so I'm going to stop here.

GK


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## Ron in Drums PA (May 24, 2007)

> _Originally posted by gketell_
> <br />And another: is getting more money all skill, or luck or both?  And/or does skill help lead to luck? [)]
> 
> GK



10% skill, 20% luck, 70% perspiration.

--------------------


Ok, here is another pen to mull over,

Wooden nib
Wooden cap
Slightly thinner than a cigar
custom length tubes

The two bands above and below the triangles is purpleheart veneer sandwiched between two ebony veneers


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## ed4copies (May 24, 2007)

oooh,,oooohh,, I know (Hand waving in air, jumping in and out of desk)!!!



It's a RS original!!!!!  Built by RS!!!!


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## gerryr (May 24, 2007)

I like that.  Is there a metal nib buried in the wood?


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## GaryMGg (May 24, 2007)

I saw that while strolling and stopped a while to take it in. Nice piece.


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## Darley (May 24, 2007)

Ron this one is realy neat, did the band as been cut with a V bit router?.

Gerry I would think that the Russ Fairfield way as been use for the nib, Russ did a nibless slimline early this year or late last year, do a searche for nibless you may find.


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## Ron in Drums PA (May 24, 2007)

I did this one over 12-16 months ago. 

There is no metal nib, it is solid wood.

Darley, think square


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## Ron in Drums PA (May 26, 2007)

> _Originally posted by Ron in Drums PA_
> <br />Some of you have the right idea on how to make this pen. What Eagle did was laminate three strips of wood together to the same thickness as a kerf from a table saw blade. Then he cut the laminates into strips and laid the strips into the kerfs. The greater the angle of the kerf, the more "wrap around" or curved the look. Also the depth of the cut has a lot to do with the curve.



I was just informed by Eagle that is not the way he does this, so let that read "this is how I would do it."

Sorry Eagle


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## Snazzypens (May 27, 2007)

Wow there is some nice pens hidden in this thread especially that purpleheart one. Very nice but you got my interest on how you did those triangles very intriguing!
Toni


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