# Carbide tools vs. sharpening



## AKPenTurner (Mar 10, 2011)

I wasn't exactly sure where to post this, so I guess this is as good a place as any. 
Here's my question:
I've been turning pens for 2 years and have never sharpened my tools (embarrassing:redface due to not having the proper sharpening wheels. Anyhow, I've got a gift card to Woodcraft, and am wondering whether it would be more worthwhile to invest in sharpening supplies, or if carbide tools work.

In short, are carbide (or carbide tipped) tools worth the investment, or is it better to invest in a good sharpening setup?

Thanks in advance for your comments!

-Silas


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## corian king (Mar 10, 2011)

Hello! My first couple years I used the regular tools and bought all the sharping equip and everything.But then a friend of mine told me about a gentleman on here that sold carbide tip tools and he said he would'nt use anything else.The gentleman on here is wood-of-1-kind.He sells two tools one is the skogger and the other is the rotondo.I reccomend the Rotondo it has a round tip and when the edge does get dull you loosen the screw and turn the tip just a little and have a new edge.NO Sharpening.
I use this tool for 95% of my turning and would'nt go without another carbide tip tool.
It's the only way to go.
Good luck!
JIM


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## Andrew Arndts (Mar 10, 2011)

you still need to "sharpen" carbide tipped tools though not with a grinder. HOWEVER get a grinder.


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## pensmyth (Mar 10, 2011)

I got the Easy Wood Carbide tipped tools and haven't touched my other lathe tools in quite some time. Even moved the grinder and sharpening equipment to the storage shelf. I have to admit I did keep out one roughing gouge for occasional "large" work and I keep an edge on it with a diamond file.


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## Wildman (Mar 10, 2011)

All wood turning tools require sharpening eventually regardless of steel use to make them. Other than toughing up carbide tools with a diamond hone, replacing cutters cheapest option. Just not economical to buy sharpening equipment to sharpen carbide cutters on wood turning tools. Don’t take my word for it just Google it! 

Dry grinder cheapest option, a sharpening jig will give you consistency at the grinder. Wet grinders more expensive and so are jigs that go with them. To me having both dry and wet grinder the best scenario. Since have, more time than money been using a dry grinder. I used a belt sander before getting my grinder and sharpening jig. 

If you want to read some reviews on grinders check this site: 
http://lumberjocks.com/reviews


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## KenV (Mar 10, 2011)

Silas -  the answer depends on what you will be turning.

I can turn pens with either a Hunter style cup carbide cutter, or with the flat scraper style tools made by Craig Jackson (EZ Tools) and by a couple of IAP vendors.  Peter and Ken advertise here.

You can make a pretty decent carbide insert tool your self with inserts available from internet vendors and a 1/2 or 5/8 square steel bar, some time and a couple of tubes of JBWeld to assure the insert is seated firmly.   

Most turners want to try different things - and that keeps the high speed tool dealers in business.   High speed steel likes some kind of sander/grinder and doing it by hand gets old.   An old belt sander with 120 grit blue norton belt held in a vise will do the job with practice.   Woodcraft has sold a bunch of grinder with white wheels for about $100 plus shipping.  All these take some practice to sharpen, but it is one of using some steel to gain the experience.

I do a fair amount of turning sitting on a stool as my joints will not allow me to do the "lathe dance" any more.  While carbide was made for cripples like me, the other tools have a place in my use.


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## glycerine (Mar 10, 2011)

If you're just turning pens, I'd look into a carbide insert tool.  If you'll be turning other items, you'll still want a scraper or skew and a gouge at minimum...  IF you spend the money on a grinder, then it'll be easier to make your own insert tool if you want, and then you can save money there...  whichever way you want to go.


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## PenMan1 (Mar 10, 2011)

Andrew Arndts said:


> you still need to "sharpen" carbide tipped tools though not with a grinder. HOWEVER get a grinder.


 

OR....at about $4 per carbide replacement tip and each tip making about 50+ pens, you could just chunk the used tips. or pay a small amount to have someone else sharpen the used ones

A decent grinder (which I wouldn't use to sharpen these inserts) costs about $100 here. That price is the equivelent of 25 tips, or (25 tips X 50 pens each) 1,200 pens.

Just another way of looking at cost control.

Respectfully submitted


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## Seer (Mar 10, 2011)

I think I may have found another way to sharpen the carbide inserts.  I have a worksharp 3000 with the glass wheels and I can actually hold it on the wheel as it is turning to put an edge on it, quick and easy and sharp.


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## titan2 (Mar 10, 2011)

Seer said:


> I think I may have found another way to sharpen the carbide inserts. I have a worksharp 3000 with the glass wheels and I can actually hold it on the wheel as it is turning to put an edge on it, quick and easy and sharp.


 
Yep, and getting one during the Christmas sale was well worth the effort! It actually was a steal.....


Barney


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## aggromere (Mar 10, 2011)

I have the easy wood mini finisher, mini rougher, big size easy rougher, the woodchuck and the rontondo.  My favorite by far is the rontondo.  With it's round tip and oversized steel shaft it sits nicely on the tool rest and does a great job.  I never could get the hang of the woodchuck.  I use the large size rougher to turn square blanks to round and once on tubes I use the rontondo.  I will say though that I most often finish up the last little bit with a good sharp oval skew.  it is not too hard to sharpen.  I think if you could get the hang of the wood chuck or the mini rougher, they might be able to do the job of a skew.


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## bitshird (Mar 10, 2011)

With expanding carbide technology geared specifically towards wood applications, we have been working with a metallurgical lab to best define what grade of carbide is the best, we have pretty well decided that we are going to continuing to offer our 15-R4 inserts in a formula that has been designed for working MDF, it has a bit coarswer grain, and while it appears very sharp, our new 15-R2 inserts are being made in a nanograin structure for wood, and acrylics,. The R-4 will take the abuse of natural stone and the harder Tru Stone materials as well as material with bark which contains sand. The 15-R2s will now peel wood with literally a razors edge, The thing to realize about carbide is it's very grain structure will control the microscopic sharpness of the edge, larger Carbide structure will not be as sharp as something with a 20 uf grain size and this leads to better finishes and better results, Also having these inserts made is costly on the initial set up we just made a bowl tool with an 18m round insert, but we have one 16mm coming with in 60 days that are comparable in size to the most popular tools that are supposed easy. Having worked in every part of large machine shops, I've been through this carbide thing for a long time, and even on steel and harden tool steel as well as having to micro finish solid carbide mill rollers and re-machine them and with the nice tools like a flatlap covered in Diamond, I never gave much thought to taking the required time to sharpen any inserts that way, I've sharpened and shaped a lot of Carbide from C-2 to C-7 and the junk in between. With the prices available from reasonable vendors, su7xch as Peter and Myself, it's really redundant to hone carbide inserts, just buy new ones and get on with making pens, bowls, and hollowforms.


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## glycerine (Mar 10, 2011)

bitshird said:


> With expanding carbide technology geared specifically towards wood applications, we have been working with a metallurgical lab to best define what grade of carbide is the best, we have pretty well decided that we are going to continuing to offer our 15-R4 inserts in a formula that has been designed for working MDF, it has a bit coarswer grain, and while it appears very sharp, our new 15-R2 inserts are being made in a nanograin structure for wood, and acrylics,. The R-4 will take the abuse of natural stone and the harder Tru Stone materials as well as material with bark which contains sand. The 15-R2s will now peel wood with literally a razors edge, The thing to realize about carbide is it's very grain structure will control the microscopic sharpness of the edge, larger Carbide structure will not be as sharp as something with a 20 uf grain size and this leads to better finishes and better results, Also having these inserts made is costly on the initial set up we just made a bowl tool with an 18m round insert, but we have one 16mm coming with in 60 days that are comparable in size to the most popular tools that are supposed easy. Having worked in every part of large machine shops, I've been through this carbide thing for a long time, and even on steel and harden tool steel as well as having to micro finish solid carbide mill rollers and re-machine them and with the nice tools like a flatlap covered in Diamond, I never gave much thought to taking the required time to sharpen any inserts that way, I've sharpened and shaped a lot of Carbide from C-2 to C-7 and the junk in between. With the prices available from reasonable vendors, su7xch as Peter and Myself, it's really redundant to hone carbide inserts, just buy new ones and get on with making pens, bowls, and hollowforms.


 
You lost me at "expanding"... :biggrin:  I kid, I kid.


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## ctubbs (Mar 11, 2011)

Carbide is wonderful, I fell in love with my WoodChuck.  I also use my old standby HSS tools where the carbide one will not fit like I want it to.  I recommend getting a good carbide tool as soon as you can afford it then saving up to get a good grinder.  That way you have the best of both worlds.  That is my $0.02 worth.
Charles


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## AKPenTurner (Mar 11, 2011)

Thanks to everyone who's commented. You've definitely given me some stuff to think about. 
Now if I can just find that Woodcraft catalog...


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## BKelley (Mar 11, 2011)

I'm a tool nut, I always loved old English turning tools.  The master cutlers in Sheffield made wonderful turning tools, I scoffed at the new carbide tools until I tried one.  My Sorby, Addis, & Henry Taylor are still loved and cherished, but are put away nicely and the carbide tools are my mainstay now.  You won't regret the carbide.


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## soligen (Mar 11, 2011)

I love the carbide wood chuck I have, but it doesn't work well for everything, so I find myself wanting to get better with the skew, and I make it a point to use the skew on everything to get practice, but I often have to use the carbide a the end becasue I still have learning to do with the skew.

Here is the situation where I find that carbide does not perform to my satisfaction:

I like to segment contasting woods. To avoid contaminating light wood with dark sanding dust, I avoid sanding until after I have my CA finish on.  I need my tools to leave things very smooth to avoid sanding.  For harder woods (and plastics) the carbide wood chuck works great.  On soft woods, I get some small tear out using the carbide (even on fresh edge), but a planing cut with a skew can leave a beautiful surface on soft woods.

I also dont like to use the carbide insert tool for roughing.  Seems very stressful on the blank and I often get catches at the beginning.  I usually use a skew or gouge riding the bevel to rough.


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