# Patience in sanding



## CaliforniaRed (Jul 18, 2005)

I came across a thread last week regarding the importance of sanding.  I realized just how bad my sanding was when I turned an ebony blank.  Every little scratch was visible.  With the lighter colored woods, I had not noticed the scratches nearly as much.  I learned about patience and what I was doing wrong with my current sanding strategy.  

Any hints or guidance would be greatly appreciated regarding sanding.  I am using MM to 12000.  How long do you sand each step.  At a certain point, I am not seeing any more dust coming off the blank.


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## ctEaglesc (Jul 18, 2005)

What grit are you starting at?
All the sanding with MM may not remove the tool marks left after you put you turning tools down.
Are you sanding with the grain after you sand"round"?
Without seeing any examples of your work, it's hard to offer other than general suggestions.


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## Ron in Drums PA (Jul 18, 2005)

Don't skip any grits
Use fresh paper
Avoid heat
Speed kills
Remove all tool and sanding marks before going to the next higher grit.


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## Old Griz (Jul 18, 2005)

Chris as mentioned above by Eagle and Ron
What grit are you starting at...
Don't miss any grits
Sand with the grain after sanding on the lathe for each grit
Use Fresh paper
Do not sand at high speed.... 
Remove sanding marks before going to the next grade
And something not mentioned: 
Wipe off the blank between grits with Denatured Alcohol to remove sanding dust and grit between grits... if you do not remove the sanding dust and grit between grits, you are actually putting scratches back into the blank from the grit that comes off the previous paper.


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## Ron in Drums PA (Jul 18, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Old Griz_
> And something not mentioned:
> Wipe off the blank between grits with Denatured Alcohol to remove sanding dust and grit between grits... if you do not remove the sanding dust and grit between grits, you are actually putting scratches back into the blank from the grit that comes off the previous paper.




Good Point 

I use a vacuum and others use compressed air to remove the grit/dust.


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## ed4copies (Jul 18, 2005)

Chris,

You've gotten the answer from SOME of the best finishers on IAP.  If you want to practice, results are easy to see on Black acrylic.  After each grit, stop and look for scratches that are too deep for the next grit to remove.  (or that have not been removed by your current grit).  EASY to see on black plastic-the principles are the same as wood.  Practice makes closer to perfect!![]


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## CaliforniaRed (Jul 18, 2005)

I have been using 150, 240, 320 400 and 1000 before starting with the MM at 3600, 4000, 6000, 8000 and 12000.  I have not been sanding with the grain after turning.  Will start that now.

I have been using a cheese cloth between sandings (found that out from reading these forums).  Is DNA a better choice than just wiping?

I know from turning the ebony, I was guilty of sanding too fast and creating too much heat.


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## Dario (Jul 18, 2005)

Starting from 150 may be your problem...a scratch mark from that is hard to remove.  Try to start from higher grits if possible.  I usually start at 320 but no lower than 240.  Anything that needs more sanding than that, I bring the skew back out [].

Having said that I am also still having problems with my sanding sometimes....especially now, I almost feel like a TOTAL newbie again!!! LOL


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## ctEaglesc (Jul 18, 2005)

This is also one reason why I think the reccomendation to bring out the "80 grit rasp" does a new turner a disservice.
USing coarse sandpaper on a flat surface to level out a blank in the final stages creates more work in the finishing process.
Learning how to use a skew as opposed to a board and sandpaper will make the finishing process a lot quicker and tess tedious.
I am in awe of those who boast that they can turn a pen with nothing but a gouge.
Quite possibly I could too , but I file that under the heading of
"Maybe I can but why?"


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## RussFairfield (Jul 18, 2005)

> _Originally posted by cteaglesc_
> <br />I am in awe of those who boast that they can turn a pen with nothing but a gouge.



So am I. I have yet to SEE anyone actually do it. But, I have seen a lot of pens and things that looked like they had never seen a piece of sandpaper.

I am an advocate the "Sanding board and coarse grit" for new turners because sometimes that is the only way they will ever get a pen finished. The secret to using the coarse-grit-turning-tool is leaving enough extra wood on that the scratches can be removed without the wood getting smaller than the pen fittings.

I describe the sanding of a slim-line as I do it at 

http://www.woodturner-russ.com/Pen32.html


PS
I hope nobody minds my posting my own website in these messages. I am just trying to be helpful.


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## ctEaglesc (Jul 18, 2005)

"I hope nobody minds my posting my own website in these messages. I am just trying to be helpful."


Actually Russ I wish your site were more prominent on the Home page.
I had to scroll down a while back to find it.
I admit I used the"board method" when I maked my first true slim lines,but back a year ago I didn't know anything about sanding marks,Micro mesh, finishing a pen,etc....
The first tools I got came with my first lathe and if I told you that I sharpened them with a hand crank grinding wheel, you wouldn't believe me.Heck when I think of it I don't believe me but I did.
I guess the skew was sharper than the gouge because that's what I used.It was also easier to sharpen the skew with one hand than the gouge anyway.(Ihad to crank the grinding wheel with the other)I learned early on that I could leave a better surface with a skew than a gouge.To this day I still use a diamond stone rather than a grinding wheel to sharpen my tools.It may be unorthodox but it works for me.


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## Dario (Jul 18, 2005)

Russ,

I believe no one will object.  I believe most willl be thankful actually.  It really helped a lot of us and will surely help a lot more.  Actually it is still helping me...since it seems like my noggin can only absorb enough per seating LOL.

I read and re-read your articles and find new stuff everytime...yes they were there before but my mind sometimes chooses which part it want to absorb and keep []...old age I guess.

Thank you for sharing!!!!


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## ed4copies (Jul 18, 2005)

Eagle & Russ,

Before I learned to handle a skew, I turned lots with a gouge, if you like I can do it again and take a mpeg.  The "trick" is to grind the gouge with the edge similar to a short skew (or perhaps a scraper).  Your final turning is done with that side.

The procedure is, I believe, less likely to catch and I still use it from time to time on acrylic that wants to shatter. 

I DO AGREE that the skew works better on wood.  But, as Griz always says, it needs to be "scary sharp".  Many turners don't know how (or, in my case, sometimes lack the patience) to make a skew "scary sharp".  In which case, coupled with a wrong angle of address, a catch can easily result, which will ruin the blank.

Not trying to be argumentative and I agree your way is preferable.  BUT, I am still more comfortable with a 3/8" gouge when the going gets "hairy". And, I THINK it is easier to control.


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## wdcav1952 (Jul 18, 2005)

> _Originally posted by RussFairfield_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...



Russ,

No one in their right mind would be upset at at reference to your website.  Whenever I go to your site, I always find myself reading a few more pages than I had intended, and learning something each time.  For example, today I was reminded where I learned the method I use to apply polyurethane glue.

Thanks for all your contributions.


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## Mudder (Jul 18, 2005)

> _Originally posted by CaliforniaRed_
> <br />I have been using 150, 240, 320 400 and 1000 before starting with the MM at 3600, 4000, 6000, 8000 and 12000.  I have not been sanding with the grain after turning.  Will start that now.
> 
> I have been using a cheese cloth between sandings (found that out from reading these forums).  Is DNA a better choice than just wiping?
> ...



Besides what everyone else has already said, you might want to add 180 grit to your list. I think going from 150 to 240 is too much but I may be wrong. You might also think of adding 600 and maybe 800 to the list. Again I could be wrong but it seems to work for me. This is my attack posture:

If really bad I start with 150 but usually I start with 180, 220, 320, 400, 600, 800, 1000 and then on to the MM if I feel that I need it. I also use a beall buff and found that it improved my finishes dramatically. Unfortunately, I still suck at finishing but I'm getting better.


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## Fred in NC (Jul 18, 2005)

I precut sanding paper into strips.  The MM does not go into this box.


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## CaliforniaRed (Jul 18, 2005)

The more you guys go back and forth the more I learn.  Thanks for all the good info.  When I saw the ebony with all the scratches, I wondered if maybe the 150 did too much damage.  At this point, I am better with the sandpaper than the tools.  

The more I practice, the more I will improve.  Thanks for the help.


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## ed4copies (Jul 18, 2005)

To the topic, sorry I digressed: Sanding ebony is a pain.

Ebony is oily, so your sandpaper clogs and generates more heat which will make the ebony react poorly.  After you sand (starting at 150 will work, but keep it slow!!) each grit,  look for scratches.  Stopping will also allow the wood to cool-improving your chances of a good result.

I should admit, I have given up on ebony.  EVERY pen I have EVER turned from it has cracked.  (I have turned more than 20-slow learner).  And, at the risk of getting verbally blasted, Black plastic looks an awful lot like black ebony and it is stable.  

I have had some Asian ebony that had a nice tan coloring with the black-IT performed well, but was no where near as oily.  

So, those of you who would like to say, "Don't make the rules if you don't play the game", you're right-no offense taken.[][][]


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## GregMuller (Jul 18, 2005)

Fred were do you find the higher grits. Local HD only goes to 220.


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## Fred in NC (Jul 18, 2005)

Many auto parts stores carry very good quality (3M, etc.) wet and dry paper.  I can usually find up to 1500 grit, and sometimes 2000.  I cut it in 5/8" x 4-1/4" strips.  I can do a pair of barrels using one strip of each grit.


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## Dario (Jul 18, 2005)

Walmart carries up to 2000 grit.  I just bought a few this weekend.


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## alamocdc (Jul 18, 2005)

My Wally World doesn't. I've found really good prices on sand papaer and other abrasives at http://www.supergrit.com/.


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## Fred in NC (Jul 18, 2005)

Wally World carries SOME finer grits in the auto department, paint section.  Took me a while to find out, since the employees did not know [:0]


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## Fordtek1 (Jul 19, 2005)

so what speed is best for sanding?


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## ed4copies (Jul 19, 2005)

Rick,

Start as slow as your lathe will turn.  The oilier the wood, the slower you want to stay. Dry maple, walnut etc can go up to about 1000 rpm.  If you go over 800 grit, slower is better and removal of sawdust between steps is more important.  I'm sure others will add to this.


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