# VERY strong reaction to CA fumes - Recommendations???



## Greg O'Sherwood (Feb 23, 2009)

Saturday, I turned several pens. The final one I decided to do a CA finish since I like the look and have become pretty adept at it now. I wasn't careful and ended up getting a couple nosefuls. Within an hour, I was sneezing, wheezing, tearing up and couphing to the point of vomiting. Two days later, I still have a runny nose and coughing. I am dropping Aprodine (pseudoephedrine) like a junky...

First, I am sure it was from the CA. I didn't turn any woods that would do this. Positive.

Second, I started searching for something that would protect me from the vapors today, but don't know where to start. I looked at the specs for the Trend Airshield, but it specifically states that it will not protect from strong vapors.

3rd. While I understand that my lungs get a high priority and I can't put a price on safety etc, etc,
* is there an economical option for protection from vapors?*


Thanks!

Gregory of Can'tHoldMyBreathLongEnoughToTurnMuch Forest


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## jkeithrussell (Feb 23, 2009)

I had to start wearing a half-mask respirator for the same reason.  You can buy them for about $30 at Home Depot.  They have 2 replaceable cartridge style filters.  Mine is 3M brand, but there are others.  Makes a world of difference. Also set up a small fan to blow across the lathe to move the fumes away.  The fan will make the CA set up a little faster, so work a little quicker.


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## Dario (Feb 23, 2009)

There a few that will help reduce your exposure.

1. Trend air shield or Triton respirator
2. Dust collector (to suck as much of it away from you.
3. Fan blowing the fume away from you.

Any combination of these (or all) will help.

But if your reaction is that bad...please stay away of it all together if possible.  If there are other options that won't pose as great a risk...explore those.


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## MikeMcM1956 (Feb 23, 2009)

Greg,
Use a half-mask (also called half-face), dual cartridge respirator with an organic vapor cartridge. That should work OK, and is recommended in the MSDS sheets from the manufacturers of CA. Just a good habit regardless of your sensitivity, and should be worn anytime you're working with organics such as thinners, lacquers, paints, etc.

Mike


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## gomeral (Feb 23, 2009)

Greg,

A good half-face respirator with combination gas or OV (organic vapor) cartridges should work.  Half face respirators, when fitted correctly and when used with the correct cartridges, are quite effective - I believe they are good for something like 10x the PEL (permissible exposure limit), which I'd be AMAZED if you're reaching with CA glue use.  Silicone models are often considered more comfortable to wear for extended periods, and if you look carefully, you may be able to find one that comes with replacable dust pre-filters, which will extend the life of the vapor cartridges.

I bought mine at the BORG years ago, but recently upgraded to a much nicer and more comfortable one (although, as Safety Manager at my company, I have some contacts for quality units outside the BORG...).



Best of luck,

daniel


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## george (Feb 23, 2009)

Thank all for a lot of good advices, which I will also take in considariation. This things should not be taken lightly.


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## TribalRR (Feb 23, 2009)

Greg, I have the same problem and I have tried alot of things. With all the inlays and segmenting I do, not using CA is not an option! At one point last Fall, I was coughing blood after using it... The half masks did not work for me, I'm not sure if it was entering my eye sockets or what... I then bought a 3M full face twin cartridge respirator and it works to some extent, apparently I have an odd shaped head and it would not seal around my temples, LOL! I was able to "clamp" it to my head, but it was completely uncomfortable.  Finally I bought a Triton and have not had any trouble since. Although it specifically says its not for protection from gases, the intake sets behind you on your waist. Not cheap, but I never want to go through that again!

Good Luck!


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## VisExp (Feb 23, 2009)

Greg have you considered other finishes?  Spray lacquer, dipping lacquer, enduro, minwax, unaxol etc.  The list of alternate finishes to CA is quite long.


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## Greg O'Sherwood (Feb 23, 2009)

Thanks all!

It seems that no single method is working for everyone, then??? Perhaps I'll get the half-mask and give it a whirl before trying other methods since it is the least costly and it is made for fumes. I used to have a military gas mask years ago that would work for this application - maybe I'll check out a military surplus store.

VisExp - I have used other finishes and still do including waxes, lacquers, Beall 3-buff, friction polishes, and several others and like them all for their differing attributes. While the CA is one of my favorites also, it is highly requested and preferred by customers/gift receivers, so I will continue to use it even if that means buying an extra 'cheapo' lathe and mounting it outside on the porch for finishing.


Okay, next stop - BORG for a half-mask!

Gregory of BreathingIsFundamental Forest


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## MesquiteMan (Feb 23, 2009)

A good dust collector with the inlet right behind your pen will work 100% of the time.  You will also have the benefit of not killing yourself slowly with the wood dust you are inhaling too!  My dad had Nasopharyngeal cancer due to wood dust.  I now have a $1,500 cyclone system piped to all machines and NOTHING gets turned on without the dust collector running.


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## Greg O'Sherwood (Feb 23, 2009)

I called the experts.

I talked to 3M technical support and talked to a very helpful gentleman about what a woodworker who *specifically *uses *CA* and various finishing products should use for respiratory protection. 

The whole package he recommended came to $37.53 (not including tax and shipping)

Here's the breakdown, including prices from http://masksnmore.stores.yahoo.net/


Half mask #6200 (#6300 for those of us with large craniums sized 8 1/4+)[$10.79]

filter #6001 (this is the organic filter that gets the CA and other fumes)[$8.49/pair]

prefilter #5P71 (gets the dust before it clogs the 6001, this attaches to the #6001)[$14.25/pair]

501 retainer that holds the filter in place [$4.00 / pair]


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## JerryS (Feb 23, 2009)

Greg O'Sherwood said:


> I called the experts.
> 
> I talked to 3M technical support and talked to a very helpful gentleman about what a woodworker who *specifically *uses *CA* and various finishing products should use for respiratory protection.
> 
> ...





Greg 
Did you order from that company ? If so please report back when you receive everything . 
 Thanks 
 Jerry


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## Art Fuldodger (Feb 23, 2009)

jkeithrussell said:


> I had to start wearing a half-mask respirator for the same reason.  You can buy them for about $30 at Home Depot.  They have 2 replaceable cartridge style filters.  Mine is 3M brand, but there are others.  Makes a world of difference. Also set up a small fan to blow across the lathe to move the fumes away.  The fan will make the CA set up a little faster, so work a little quicker.



Those respirators work quite well for their cost.  I use mine when doing finishes, and usually smell very little.  After I clean up, and take the mask off to go inside... WHOA, BABY!  I wonder how I didn't blow the shop up with all of the fumes.

The carbon filters will eventually fill up, so you occasionally have to replace them.


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## Randy_ (Feb 23, 2009)

For those who have dust collectors in their shop, it seems to me that you are just diluting the CA fumes and not really eliminating them?  You are still poisoning yourself, just in smaller doses.
 
The half masks with chemical filters seem like a good bet or use a "STRONG" exhaust system that vents to the outdoors.


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## jkeithrussell (Feb 23, 2009)

Art Fuldodger said:


> After I clean up, and take the mask off to go inside... WHOA, BABY! I wonder how I didn't blow the shop up with all of the fumes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## JerryS (Feb 23, 2009)

Randy_ said:


> For those who have dust collectors in their shop, it seems to me that you are just diluting the CA fumes and not really eliminating them?  You are still poisoning yourself, just in smaller doses.
> 
> The half masks with chemical filters seem like a good bet or use a "STRONG" exhaust system that vents to the outdoors.




Just a side note on Dust Collectors . I have one directly behind what ever it is I'm turning and it does nothing when it comes to sucking up the fumes . JMO


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## Art Fuldodger (Feb 23, 2009)

jkeithrussell said:


> Art Fuldodger said:
> 
> 
> > After I clean up, and take the mask off to go inside... WHOA, BABY! I wonder how I didn't blow the shop up with all of the fumes.
> ...


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## gomeral (Feb 23, 2009)

jkeithrussell said:


> Art Fuldodger said:
> 
> 
> > After I clean up, and take the mask off to go inside... WHOA, BABY! I wonder how I didn't blow the shop up with all of the fumes.
> ...



_[Edit: I was slow on the post...too much distraction around the house, lately!]_

I think he means that the masks work extremely well and that only after removing the mask is it apparent the sheer quantity of organic vapor fumes in the room.

Respirators typically provide protection at up to 10 times the permissible exposure limit.  For an example, acetone has a PEL of 1,000ppm - in a 10' x 20' x 8' tall workshop, evaporation of just over half a cup of (liquid) acetone will exceed this limit.  With a good respirator, you won't be able to smell anything, but most of us would know that smell the instant you take it off!



daniel


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## Daniel (Feb 23, 2009)

I'm not sure there is a low cost answer to vapor protection. The cartridges tend to be expensive in comparison to other filter types.
Also it is a good idea to go find a safety store and get fitted for a half mask. one they will test that it does not leak and two they will also test that you do not have problems breathing etc while in it. Actually the vapor cartridges are very easy to breath through but some people have some serious problems with masks. 
one they can be clostraphobic. if so you can actually panic when wearing one and all sorts of strange and seldom good things an happen.
second some people are not able to breath well enough through them. it is not like you cannot breath at all it is a slow build up thing and you can actually pass out without realizing you are even having a problem. now you are out cold in a mask that you cannot breath in and will actually suffocate.
so much for the bad news.
the good news is that masks are not only fairly affordable $30.00 or so (it is the cartridges that can get pricey) You will be right there with the people that can tell you just what cartridge you need to protect yourself from CA fumes. 
I use a cartridge made to protect from Hydrochloric acid. so far it has worked for any type of fumes I have been around. but they also cost about 100 for a 4 pack.
I have used the first set of cartridges for over 5 years and they are still going. you know vapor cartridges are worn out when you do start smelling fumes through them.


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## MesquiteMan (Feb 23, 2009)

My cyclone is ducted throughout the shop.  The main cyclone is 25 feet away  from the lathe and outside the shop with a return to bring the cool (or warm), clean air back.  When I have it running, you can not even catch the slightest hint of CA fumes at the lathe or at the return air.  By the time the fumes go through the duct work and cyclone, they are completely gone.  It also gets rid of every single bit of sanding dust while sanding.  It was one of the best shop investments I have made.


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## bad (Feb 23, 2009)

There is one other low cost solution that nobody has mentioned yet. Switch to lacquer.


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## Greg O'Sherwood (Feb 23, 2009)

bad said:


> There is one other low cost solution that nobody has mentioned yet. Switch to lacquer.


 
I refer you back to post #8 and #9 of this thread, thanks though...


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## jkeithrussell (Feb 24, 2009)

Art Fuldodger said:


> jkeithrussell said:
> 
> 
> > Art Fuldodger said:
> ...


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## TellicoTurning (Feb 24, 2009)

Knock on green wood (sharp rap to side of head), so far I haven't had any reaction to CA other than the fumes will burn the eyes sometimes.. for that reason, I do like everyone has suggested... I keep a fan running and the DC going full blast whenever I work with the CA.


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## wolftat (Feb 25, 2009)

The triton respirator has the canister on a belt so you can place it behind you and avoid a lot of the fumes and all the dust. That and a good dust collector are keeping me from coughing and sneezing up wood dust, I wished I had bought the triton years ago.


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## Greg O'Sherwood (Feb 25, 2009)

Here's an idea...

Is there any way you can take a powered respirator (Triton, Airshield, etc) and alter the belt canister to enable it to use the 3M filters that will protect the wearer from CA/Organic fumes???

Perhaps a machinist could make an adapter?


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## Skye (Feb 25, 2009)

> Odorless Cyanoacrylates   are formulated for use by users who may be sensitive or allergic to standard CA.  Their use is recommended whenever sufficient ventilation is not possible. Odorless CAs have only a  less strength as standard CA and are more expensive.  However, they can also be used on materials such as white foam that are dissolved or frosted by standard CA.



Don't know if anyone has mentioned that or not.


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## Nickfff (Feb 25, 2009)

Skye,

Good thought...here is a link to odorless CA from Monty (IAP member). I have ordered from Monty before and he has very good prices and great service...

http://woodenwonderstx.com/WWBlue/NewGlueWS.html


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## TellicoTurning (Feb 26, 2009)

Wouldn't odorless Ca still have the same compounds in it as standard CA, but without the an odor to the fumes you wouldn't know how much you are breathing in - kinda like carbon monoxide??  Still think breathing protection would be essential.  

That's why they put an special odor compound in natural gas...


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## leehljp (Mar 5, 2009)

I am getting to this post because of a link from another post, and I missed it the first time it was posted (I was traveling). 

I am one of those that worked with CA for some time before getting a reaction - for almost 2 years with no problems what so ever. Then by the time I got proficient with CA I began to have normal allergies such as sniffles for a day or so. Then about 3 months after that symptom first occurred, it started getting worse. Cold like, flu like symptoms for 3 days and even double vision.

I first started using a mask, then a double canister mask, which helped quite a bit. But residual dust accumulating on hands and sleeves still triggered responses. I spent last winter making a DC system in my small 9 X 12 shed that is only about 6 feet from my rear neighbor's house and 8 feet from next door neighbor's house. So I had to have a "quiet" DC that still had some power.

Now, I have a 400 CFM dedicated DC on the lathe, use a double canister mask, keep a damp towel handy to wipe down my sleeves and hand. I also have a flip up mask. 

It takes the combination of all three for me when I am doing half day or all day pen turning and finishing.

Now I can use CA to my heart's (and body's) content. If the DC had not worked, I probably would have given up on CA, which I don't want to do.


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## jhudson1977 (Mar 6, 2009)

Greg O'Sherwood said:


> I wasn't careful and ended up getting a couple nosefuls. Within an hour, I was sneezing, wheezing, tearing up and couphing to the point of vomiting. Two days later, I still have a runny nose and coughing. I am dropping Aprodine (pseudoephedrine) like a junky...


 
Hi Greg,

I had a very similar reaction when I first started finishing with CA (about a month ago) although it lasted about 15 minutes not two days.  I went to Mernards (a.k.a. Home Depot/Lowes) and picked up what everyone else is suggesting - a respirator with the organic vapor filters.  I think it was about $30 (as someone else mentioned).  I haven't had a problem since.  I was also having a pretty strong reaction to the Purpleheart I was using and that went away as well.


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## John Eberly (Mar 6, 2009)

*CA Reaction*

Be very careful - CA reactions can be progressive.  More exposure over time leads to more severe symptoms.  My other interests include RC planes, and the AMA club magazine has had several warnings from CA users who've had severe (near debilitating) reactions after many years of fairly straightforward use.

Also, the eyes are more than the windows to your soul.  They are wide open for CA, sanding dust, and anything else that you might react to.  I've become increasingly sensitive to some wood dust - western red cedar and walnut in particular.  Even with a good carbon cannister 3M half mask respirator, I will have symptoms unless I also minimize dust in my eyes.


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## GouletPens (Mar 7, 2009)

I use Curtis's trick of the DC at the lathe....had to when I started to have an alergic reaction to brazilian tulipwood, but I also use it for CA. I've never had problems with it, but I'm getting freaked out now b/c I'm only 24 and I have many, MANY years of exposure ahead of me. I'm thinking a better DC system and Triton respirator might just be in my future....safety related things are the easiest purchases to justify to my wife anyway....though she is probably wondering why I'm not coming to bed right now!!!!!:beat-up:


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