# Woodturningz not selling PSI kit



## arioux (Dec 26, 2007)

Hi,

Anyone notice that on the Woddturningz site, the followong statement appeared:

Please note that kits previously sold with part #'s similar to PSI's part #'s are not PSI's kits. 

I was just about to place an order when i saw this.  And they removed the PK acronym from all their kit names.  

Look like they dropped PSI (Dayacom) and went to Reizleing (SP?) or similar Chinese manufacturer.  

Alfred


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## jcollazo (Dec 26, 2007)

Interesting!!!!  What's next? CSUSA starts selling Berea?


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## Brewmeister35 (Dec 26, 2007)

It seems most of the re-salers have been switching to the rhi-zheng kits for the styles that are available.


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## Firefyter-emt (Dec 26, 2007)

Which does lead into which are the better kits?  For the Dayacom stuff, I can say that the fountain pen nibs that have the "Dayacom" name on them over the "IPG" have been far better. Then with some of those really nice looking kits that popped up in the Dayacom e-mail thread a while back, it sure makes one wonder.


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## johncrane (Dec 26, 2007)

You maybe right with the switching,that could also be why Dayacom is looking for new roads to go down. [:0][:I]


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## arioux (Dec 26, 2007)

Hi,

One of the problem for Woodturningz is that Woodnwimshies sells the same kits cheaper.  That could be bad for them.  Plus there is a few EBay reseller that start to emerge with those kit as well.


Alfred


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## Milpaul (Dec 26, 2007)

Does this mean they are switching or just that their kits are not owned by PSI ?


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## Randy_ (Dec 26, 2007)

> _Originally posted by jcollazo_
> 
> Interesting!!!!  What's next? CSUSA starts selling Berea?



I doubt we will see that any time soon; but I did notice and ad on the AS website for some PSI bottle stoppers.


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## Tonto (Dec 26, 2007)

As a new pen turner I must say that the differences in prices for the same or similar kits is a bit confusing and the differences between kits that appear similar are tough to dicipher.  I suspect some are making a killing out there, the early birds in the industry and now that the popularity is exploding, the marketplace will adjust plugging in some competition with who knows what results......I'm all for fair profit but it does seem at times that mystery is applied, prices inflated and only a few do well, the rest of us are at the mercy of the suppliers and their prices.  I welcome more suppliers and opportunities to shop for that best combo of price and service.  I don't buy 1000 kits at a time so when I buy a few and there is a problem, it just doesn't pay to send something back for replacement or repair given the cost of shipping these days so inexpensive components help as I learn a new craft.  Beyond the kits, the same confusion seems to exist regarding bushings and the price differences are amazing.  Funny to sense what the actual differences between Dayacom and Rieslieng kits are too, I suppose we could use some truth in labeling policies from our suppliers.  Slimline, Funline, lets call the whole thing off.....If anything, prices should come down over time when the volumes go up.  While I'm ranting, what am I missing on eBay? I can't see any deals when you factor in shipping.  I'll watch for the group buy opportunity.......


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## maxwell_smart007 (Dec 26, 2007)

The Ebay Reseller might also be Tracey from WOodnwhimsies...she sells on there too! 

Andrew


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## jtate (Dec 26, 2007)

Has anyone asked Ryan about this?

Julia


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## arioux (Dec 26, 2007)

> _Originally posted by maxwell_smart007_
> 
> The Ebay Reseller might also be Tracey from WOodnwhimsies...she sells on there too!
> 
> Andrew



Yes, she goes under oliveoyle, but there are at least 3 others, including one that sell 4 kits with wood blanks for $7 (foxfire)and an other one in the $1.80 range (village workshop) for a single kit.  Wood pen pro is also on Ebay at around  $1.65 for slimline.  Competition is playing hard in the lower end kits.  I hope this will go to the higher end ones too, with the arrival of Dayacom wanting to recruit new resellers.  Overall, we might all profit from it.

Alfred


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## karlkuehn (Dec 26, 2007)

I'm thinking that the old supplier was better. I just made a gold slimline the other night with recent purchases from Woodturningz, and had to go through 3 kits before I found enough parts to make a decent pen, the plating has been a real mess. Similar issues with Woodnwhimsies. I've sent stuff back to both companies and had good customer service related to the issues, but I just don't have the time to mess with that. I've still got some kits that I got from Ryan several months ago, and the plating on those is much better than what I'm seeing nowadays. Those crappy kits are good for practice, but when you need to make something that sells, stick with quality, not quantity.

Seems like all of the PSI clones have jumped on the "how cheap can we get away with" wagon, and there's just been too many cherries picked out of the pie. I really don't mind paying $2.00 for a cheapo slim kit, as long as the plating at least looks like it's new when I finish the pen, regardless of how long it's going to last. Most of the low-end slims I'm seeing anymore look like they were plated after being coated with peanut butter, and I can't/won't even give them away.[B)]

From this point forward, I'm sticking with Ernie, Bill and CSUSA. I'm just trusting that they're never going to sell out to cheaper plating and poor machining, seconds, that kind of thing. I know at least Bear Tooth Woods and Arizona Silhouette still care about quality of product and pride in what they do rather than cut-throating the competition and downgrading to cheaper sources. Way to go, guys! Keep it up, you've got my full-time attention!


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## THarvey (Dec 27, 2007)

I received an order from Woodturningz last week.  All of the 7mm kits (Slimlines and Europeans) were PSI kits.  The 10mm Cigars were Berea kits.


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## jrc (Dec 27, 2007)

Z did switch. A month ago I got some silver kits.  The plating was crap, frosty on one side of the nib and shiny on the other. Also the nib was over sized.  They told me they could not make any money on the better kits so the found a better supplier with kits they can make money on.  I told them if this is what there 7mm kits are going to be like I'll buy better kits somewhere else. Yesterday I ordered 400 kits, 300 could of been ordered from Z.  There going to loose a lot of business, I hope they don't go under before the see there mistake.  To me in this business money is not everything but the quality of what I sell is.


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## Rifleman1776 (Dec 27, 2007)

> _Originally posted by Tonto_
> 
> As a new pen turner I must say that the differences in prices for the same or similar kits is a bit confusing and the differences between kits that appear similar are tough to dicipher.  I suspect some are making a killing out there, the early birds in the industry and now that the popularity is exploding, the marketplace will adjust plugging in some competition with who knows what results......I'm all for fair profit but it does seem at times that mystery is applied, prices inflated and only a few do well, the rest of us are at the mercy of the suppliers and their prices.  I welcome more suppliers and opportunities to shop for that best combo of price and service.  I don't buy 1000 kits at a time so when I buy a few and there is a problem, it just doesn't pay to send something back for replacement or repair given the cost of shipping these days so inexpensive components help as I learn a new craft.  Beyond the kits, the same confusion seems to exist regarding bushings and the price differences are amazing.  Funny to sense what the actual differences between Dayacom and Rieslieng kits are too, I suppose we could use some truth in labeling policies from our suppliers.  Slimline, Funline, lets call the whole thing off.....If anything, prices should come down over time when the volumes go up.  While I'm ranting, what am I missing on eBay? I can't see any deals when you factor in shipping.  I'll watch for the group buy opportunity.......



Tonto, welcome to the world of confusion. Sad to say, you are right on all counts. And you probably haven't seen the tip of the confusion iceberg yet. When you get to what appear to be identical kits but have different drills, bushings, etc. it can drive a sane man to drink. Everyone handles the situation their own way. I stick with one supplier for about 80% of my pens and call when/if there is a defective part. They replace promptly. Use this forum and TPS for advice. It can be confusing, but is fun and potentially profitable.


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## arioux (Dec 27, 2007)

Hi,

I did'nt want the discussion to go to a Woodturningnz trial.  Ryan and his team has always be great with us. Woodturningz was honest enough to warn about the swith.  The problem is that more and more other reseller seems to go to the cheapo kit direction too.  At least they could offer us the choice.  PSI did with their "funline" serie.  CSU with their "apprentice" line.  Hope thay will keap their higher end line.  I think there is a market for those lower quality kit (and for those that still think that there is no difference, i have a full drawer of scrap here ) but i sell pen for a large part of my semi retirement income and the quality is important to me. Paying $1.50 or $3.50 for a slimline kit is just $18 dollars profit instead of $20 on my final sale.  No big deal and i did'nt have to go thru 35 kits to make 25 pens (yes that was my ratio on my last order from a Rizheng dist.) and i don't have to worry about a custummer coming back with a scrap finish or a useless transmission. I know some people still think that those kits are the same quality, and the difference is just in the profit margin, well good luck in your market developpement.  From now on, i will order thru reseller that carry better kit only and at least who knows the difference between gun metal and black titanium or chrome and rhodium[V] and sells them accordingly.  Sorry for the long post, some rant on drill bits i know do on cheapo kits.

Alfred


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## Geo in Winnipeg (Dec 27, 2007)

> _Originally posted by arioux_
> 
> a scrap finish or a useless transmission. I know some people still think that those kits are the same quality, and the difference is just in the profit margin, well good luck in your market developpement.  From now on, i will order thru reseller that carry better kit only and at least who knows the difference between gun metal and black titanium or chrome and rhodium[V] and sells them accordingly.  Sorry for the long post, some rant on drill bits i know do on cheapo kits.
> 
> Alfred


Well said Alfred. If only I had known. I recently bought some Comfort kits. I won't mention from whom. The transmissions (every one) have a real stiff and rough operation and the nib looks like it has turning marks (rings) on it. Looks like ripples on a poor CA finish. I can't in good conscience sell these or even give them away.


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## bkc (Dec 27, 2007)

Okay, so where do I buy the PSI type slimlines. Got an order for a dozen and don't feel like getting junk kits.


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## LanceD (Dec 27, 2007)

> _Originally posted by bkc_
> 
> Okay, so where do I buy the PSI type slimlines. Got an order for a dozen and don't feel like getting junk kits.



Try PSI. (Penn State Ind.)


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## arioux (Dec 27, 2007)

Hi,

Pens of color still carry the regular PSI line, at a lower cost than PSI.

Don't discard Ryan at Woddturningz, he probably still sell everything in the PSI calalog at a lower price too.


Alfred


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## Brewmeister35 (Dec 27, 2007)

augumspenworks still sells them also.


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## Jarheaded (Dec 27, 2007)

I just got off the phone with Jeff at Woodturningz and he told me that this is mostly bull. They are still selling everything that PSI sells and the stuff that is on clearance is Rhezhing. They will always carry from PSI and the only things that will be from the other place will be things that PSI does not carry. It only takes a phone call to find out what is fact and what is fiction. Rumors are a nasty subject and happen all too often in this world. The phone  for Wood turningz is 1-888-736-5487, call for yourselves and find out the facts.
(p.s. no language communication problems with Jeff or Ryan)


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## karlkuehn (Dec 27, 2007)

> _Originally posted by Jarheaded_
> 
> I just got off the phone with Jeff at Woodturningz and he told me that this is mostly bull. They are still selling everything that PSI sells and the stuff that is on clearance is Rhezhing. They will always carry from PSI and the only things that will be from the other place will be things that PSI does not carry. It only takes a phone call to find out what is fact and what is fiction. Rumors are a nasty subject and happen all too often in this world. The phone  for Wood turningz is 1-888-736-5487, call for yourselves and find out the facts.
> (p.s. no language communication problems with Jeff or Ryan)



Well, that would jive with the pattern that I saw I guess. If they recently switched to the cheap stuff, and then back to actual PSI stuff, that would explain why when I first started buying from them last winter/spring, everything was great. Then it went to hell in a handbasket over the summer and fall, and I ended up with lots of stuff I can't use, leaving me scrambling through the my older inventory for good parts when I've ordered bad kits more recently. Keep in mind, *this isn't targeted at Woodturningz alone*. 

The other companies refunded my money after the first order I sent back to them due to just global failure on multiple fronts, sizing, machining, plating. I've continued to place order after order with Ryan, Jeff and Fritz, but have seen a steady decline in quality, so that's what I'm saying here. They've never had a problem replacing parts for me and have been great to deal with, but at the end of the day, spending time managing bad parts just gets old, so I'm done buying the funline/apprentice/crapline whatever you call them. I still buy high end plating kits from them and have been mostly satisfied.

This site is for penturners to help each other out, and if I can share my experiences with people who can benefit from and avoid the bad ones, I'll be brutally honest. That's what makes IAP such a great resource. Don't be so quick to discount the posts that people take time to share on here as 'rumor'. Bottom line, if there's enough of us who are frustrated enough to post about bad kits, then there's a problem.

When's the last time you saw any bad posts about Bear Tooth or Arizona Silhouette? I'm always the first to post great things about a supplier, but on the flip side of that coin, I'll also be honest about the bad things, too, and I believe both sides help out people who want good kits at fair prices.

As far as 'bull' goes, here's the bull that I've been dealing with: Baggie after baggie of disappointment and frustration...


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## arioux (Dec 27, 2007)

> _Originally posted by Jarheaded_
> 
> I just got off the phone with Jeff at Woodturningz and he told me that this is mostly bull. They are still selling everything that PSI sells and the stuff that is on clearance is Rhezhing. They will always carry from PSI and the only things that will be from the other place will be things that PSI does not carry. It only takes a phone call to find out what is fact and what is fiction. Rumors are a nasty subject and happen all too often in this world. The phone  for Wood turningz is 1-888-736-5487, call for yourselves and find out the facts.
> (p.s. no language communication problems with Jeff or Ryan)



Read my previous post, i recommanded Ryan as he sells everything that is in the PSI catalog.  But go to their site, there is not a single PSI kit anymore.  And they are the same kit that they where selling us as PSI kits few weeks ago.  From their site:"Please note that kits previously sold with part #'s similar to PSI's part #'s are not PSI's kits".
Honorable mistake? Coud be.... PSI complain to them?... Mabe but for how long did they sold kits with PK numbering that where not PSI.  So where is the "BULL"?

I started this post and i kind of regret it because i did'nt want to make it a Woodturnongz trial. I was just worry for them because they have always been amoung the best and being concern about the quality of their product.  
I don't want to bash them, they have always been good to me and i will still buy from them, specifing what kind and what manufacturer of kit i want and not relying on a reseller, as good as he could be.  
Karl photo speaks for themselves.  I got a drawer full of these plus crappy transmission and most of them where not from Woodturningz but they now carry them.  Yes exchange is ok and nice guy say sorry.  Too late, i went to my biggest show of the year with 100 less slimline than expected and they are my biggest seller here.  The failure ratio is just too high, and real professionnal should warn their custummer of these issue.  I sincerely hope that no ones think they did'nt know about the poor quality of those kit!! 


Alfred


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## ed4copies (Dec 27, 2007)

We need to realize that Chinese sources (and some other parts of the world) will deliver whatever they believe the market will accept.  

Unfortunately, if crappy product is delivered in small enough quantities (which COULD be tens of thousands, in the greater scheme of things), then NOT returned to them, THEY come out fine.  The distributors' reputations will suffer, but the Chinese won't really care UNLESS they (the manufacturers) are forced to EAT the crappy kits.  Whether any of the distributors have the financial muscle to MAKE THAT HAPPEN will determine whether the quality is improved.

Those of us who are really old will remember the saying "Japanese Junk".  Today, most of the electronics we consider "higher end" are made in Japan-they did WELL with THEIR learning curve - so will CHINA, over time.

So, when you buy cheap, low-end kits (and I do), factor in some cost for helping the distributors educate a supplier.  Over time, these CHINESE suppliers are our best hope to lower the cost of the Emperors of the world.  It WILL happen, just a question of how quickly.

The distributors will also have "bad days" and bad shipments.  Sounds like they are trying to be fair - so far, I've been very lucky.  Threw out a few transmissions, lost a couple of copper clips, otherwise, everything has been pretty fair quality.  I am far less motivated by the lower cost and far MORE motivated by the hope for a good supplier of higher end product in the coming years.

We Will See!!!


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## arioux (Dec 27, 2007)

Hi,

Thanks Ed for bringing back to focus on the right perspective.  The only problem i see with reseller starting to flood the market with cheaper kit is that somehow, WE are the guinea pig (SP?).

They could at least warn us when they switch manufacturer and about the failure ratio involve with those new kits.   They are the ones who receive the complain and i'm sure there must have been a lot, unless most people don't care about receiving 20% bad kit or kit that wont meet the criteria of more consciensious (sp?) pen seller t make it for a living and trust their usual reseller.
I for one will now validate who makes the kits and buy accordingly. (sp?).

Boy my english is put to a rough test today, i appoligize to native speaking english people about al my errors (most of them are not typos[8D])   

Alfred


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## ed4copies (Dec 27, 2007)

Alfred,

There is no need to apologize for your English (or anything else).  I have noticed your improvement week-by-week.  Congratulations.


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## Jarheaded (Dec 27, 2007)

Karl, I am not defending anyone, I am just passing on what came from the horses mouth to me. If I got a shipment of what you are showing in the pictures, I would be livid. I personally buy from a number of different suppliers and when I get a feeling of quality going to hell I switch to a different supplier and send back the bad stuff. I may have used the wrong wording (rumors), but I would hate to see a good reliable dealer getting put out of business over trying something new in which he was trying to save money for all of us. If people like them did not try the other brands, we would never know if there is one out there that is selling better quality at a better price(it may happen--but I am a dreamer), I think Ed said it clearly. I just want a good product so I can make the best possible product for my customers just as I am sure the rest of you want to. This forum has taught me a lot of new ideas and techniques. I try to support it as much as I can and I try to help anyone that I can. I am not trying to put anyone down or defend a poor product,and I definetly did not want to get into any arguments with anyone, I am on your side.
  And finally, Alfred i think your english is fine. I have no problem understanding you and I think it is great that you are learning english, I have heard that it is hard as a second language.
With that said, I hope everyone has had a great holiday so far and hope that it only gets better. PEACE


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## karlkuehn (Dec 27, 2007)

Sorry Jarhead, my post kinda comes off as attacking you, not my intention at all. 

I should also point out that I've had nothing but great service from the guys at Woodturningz, and will continue to use them as my PSI source, as well as CA, micromesh and that sort of thing. They've always had the fastest shipping and have fixed every one of the problems that I took the time to point out to them. I agree that seeing them go out of business over this kind of thing would bum me out. 

My whole post above was directed at the slims that I got from them, not their other stuff. They have been by far the best PSI supplier I've used. The one caveat to this whole thing is that somewhere it seems that they switched manufacturers and the quality went in the toilet, and I don't think I've seen any prices drop, so none of the savings went on to us at all.

Actually, I still don't know - which is better, Dayacom or the Ring Zing place? I think finding out which manufacturer a given retailer uses and basing my orders on that is a good idea (someone mentioned this earlier). Hopefully, the manufacturers will get the picture if us end user types start communicating our gripes to the suppliers.

Alfred, your English is great! Wish I knew more than one language. I know a little Spanish. Cerveza, muchachas, tocador, alimento, mÃ¡s cerveza, Â¿Usted ha visto mi coche?...you know, the essential stuff []


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## jrc (Dec 28, 2007)

I've been buying from WZ from their beginning and they have been great to work with.  When they get back to selling better kits I will buy more.  What it boils down to if we do not buy these bad kits our suppliers will stop selling them.  For my slimline I'm going back to the berea kit with the solid clip and the two beaded center band.  I buy 2000 kits a year, half from WZ and the other Berea.  Now Berea will get most of my business.


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## Randy_ (Dec 28, 2007)

Jim:  You should send a copy of this comment directly to Woodturningz.  A complaint or two from dissatisfied customers that purchase 5 or 10 kits a year may not have a big impact; but the same comment from a customer who purchases 2000 kits a year will have a significant impact, I should think.


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## jrc (Dec 28, 2007)

I did and it's a bottom line thing for them but I think that will change if they can not sell them and or gets a bunch returned.


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## karlkuehn (Dec 28, 2007)

I just emailed Ryan detailing the issues that I've been seeing recently, and explaining that I've always been impressed with their customer service and most of their products. I pointed out that most of us are willing to pay a little more for a kit if we know that we can depend on usable product. I also noted that almost everyone will try one of the substandard slim suppliers like Woodnwhimsies or the Ebay crowd to save a buck, but we'll come running back to a good supplier once we see the quality, or lack thereof, that those other people offer. I figured that taking the time to send an email would at least help the cause a little. It'd sure be nice to have a source for good slims again. In the past, Woodturningz has always had great customer service response, and that's hard to find in a supplier sometimes. We'll see what happens I guess. 

** Update **

Wow! 10 minutes after I emailed, I got a call from Jeff. He wanted to touch base with me about the issues I've had, explained the pains that they're going through to make all this right, reassuring that they're hearing us and fixing my problems without a hitch. They're definitely taking action with regard to getting rid of the crappy kits, too. Jeff was honest and didn't do any shuck and jive on me.

And just like that, they've retained my business. They've started using PSI stuff again where applicable. For me, the ability to talk to someone knowledgeable and truthful about problems goes a long way towards paying extra for kits and supplies. The difference between $1.50 a kit for a bad experience and $2.00 a kit for a good experience is worth the little extra money.

It's a shame the that whole truth of the matter is that they are going to lose money to the cheesey suppliers, but in the end, it'll come back around and pay off. Every one of the suppliers that I sold out to and bought kits on the cheap will never see my business again, but the end result is that I spent money elsewhere that I should have given to a good supplier.

Well done, Woodturningz! Apparently they've got a big sale coming up on the second of January, and I intend to spend some money there.


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## jimwill48 (Dec 28, 2007)

[}]Has anyone thought about ordering/importing the DAYACOM INDUSTRIAL pen kits them selfs. On the website you would have to order 500pcs of a single unit and I'm not sure what would be the shipping and customs. Just throwing it out maybe someone would want to do a huge group buy.[?]

JW


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## maxwell_smart007 (Dec 28, 2007)

This issue has been discussed before, JW..do a search, and you'll find pages upon pages of the discussion about Dayacom 

Andrew


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## jimwill48 (Dec 28, 2007)

Andrew,
Thanks, found info out after the reply, which was more a joke reply than serious, I really had no idea that it had ever really been discussed, says I with egg on face [8], to quote you latin sig line "Sorry about that, chief!

I find that the current vendors such as Woodturningz, CSU, AZ to be very good and needs to be supported. If you want PSI kits from Woodturningz just ask for them. Plus if something is wrong I have always found them to fix the issue ASAP.

JW






> _Originally posted by maxwell_smart007_
> 
> This issue has been discussed before, JW..do a search, and you'll find pages upon pages of the discussion about Dayacom
> 
> Andrew


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## bkc (Dec 28, 2007)

Well, I'm sticking with giving Woodturningz my business. As everyone knows s%7t happens, but a company that makes things right quickly without quibbling is well worth betting customer service will stay good.


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## bradbn4 (Dec 28, 2007)

I have ordered a buch from Woodturningz - and they were one of my first orders when the bug hit me.  The normal "cheap" kits - well I can do without.  If I want to go low end - I order the Chrome or Nickel - that way the pen hardware will last.

Bradbn4 - Colorado is a cool place to be, around 5 outside right now


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## jrc (Dec 29, 2007)

I think there should be a topic on this sort of thing. If someone gets some bad kits, everyone should be aware of it.
I posted something about these kits I got from WZ the first of December.


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## loglugger (Dec 29, 2007)

These kits have been around for over a year. I have 16 that I had to eat because I waited about 11 months to put them together. Check your kits when you get them or you way be out of luck. The kits are from WZ.
Bob


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## DocStram (Dec 30, 2007)

> _Originally posted by loglugger_
> 
> These kits have been around for over a year. I have 16 that I had to eat because I waited about 11 months to put them together. Check your kits when you get them or you way be out of luck. The kits are from WZ.
> Bob



Bob ... did you talk with WZ about returning them?


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## loglugger (Dec 30, 2007)

Al, Yes I did, long story, I called and they said I had bought them 11 months ago and that was to long. The tubes were to big the tips and transmissions slide in very easy I sent the tubes back anyway and they did send me new tubes but that didn't do the job, it helped and with a little CA I got the tips to stay in but the tubes still slipped and would not turn the transmission. That is why I said to check the kits when you get then but it is kind of hard to see if the tips are going to fit until you put them together. I have always gotten the Fancy pen kits from them and up to that time they had been good. I get 20 at a time and always keep 20 ahead is why it had been 11 months.
Bob


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## tnick (Jan 5, 2008)

Hello Gang - This is Tracey from Wood-N-Whimsies.  Tim and I are reading all the posts and as pen turners and suppliers we value opinions from everyone. We have been using the same supplier for all but the first six months of our existence.  We do take a sample of every shipment that comes to us and work with our vendor if there are quality issues.   We do rely heavily on customer feedback to make improvements and take it seriously as we also turn these kits.   We work hard to balance quality/price.    Greed is not part of our motto.  We started supplying because we wanted to be able to help people get the supplies they wanted for their turning projects at a fair price.   You can't rip people off and get them to come back for more.  We do stand behind everything we sell regardless if it's from PSI (via their overseas supplier) or ours.   We know we can't please everyone 100% of the time but do aim to please the majority.  If you have suggestions at any time feel free to let us know.  [:I]


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## ed4copies (Jan 5, 2008)

To all:

Since Tracey has posted, I feel obliged to say she and Tim have treated ME very well.  Their products are not always perfect - I seldom complain, but when I make a "casual comment" the next order includes FREE parts to make up for any problems.

THEY are doing THEIR best and I appreciate it.  As I have said, I EXPECT to have some problems - if we want lower cost suppliers, there WILL be a learning curve.  All Tracey and Tim can do, is their best - and they do.

YOU can purchase from higher price, more established companies and pay more.  I will continue to buy what I can from "Ma & Pa" and hope that they remember me when they get "bigger, stronger".

BEST OF EVERYTHING to you, Tracey and Tim.  From time to time I will replace a transmission - BIG DEAL!!!  At pennies a piece, I'll get over it!


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## arioux (Jan 5, 2008)

Well, i have to dig myself in again.
I have read a lot of good thing about Wood'n wimshies after sale service and that is great.  The only thing that stop me from buing from them is that i want the best for my custommer and don't have to worry too much about pens coming back to me.  I make part of my living from selling those pens.  Continuing to sell that poor quality stuff and knowing it, don't put them i my category of suppliers even if they were the best person in the world.  And ED, please this is not an attack on them, this apply to all those reseller that don't really care about the quality of what they sell, hiding behind a good after sale service.  Woodturningz did the same mistake and is actually getting rid of all this stuff.  That for me is what caring for your custommers is all about.  That' my position and i stick to it.  Last post for me on this subject.

Alfred


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## ed4copies (Jan 5, 2008)

Alfred,

We are not that far apart on our philosophy.  I will be very disappointed if I have a bunch of pens coming back for repair. BUT, I believe that will not be a problem.

Because, I think BAD components tend to fail pretty quickly.  IF I get a pen back within a couple weeks, the purchaser will be THRILLED if I repair it instantly and cheerfully.  I will probably sell MORE pens to them right then!

If I am wrong, it COULD hurt me.  

I am NOT trying to tell YOU how to do business - but for ME, the risk is worth it - I am a small business, competing (in my REAL life) with Xerox, HP and a bunch of other "BIG budget guys".  I will try to help the SMALL businesses wherever possible - color me an incurable romantic - I'd like to HELP them succeed.

Remember, the worst that can happen is I lose a "slimline" customer (and about a $10 per pen profit).  I can absorb that loss, if necessary.


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## Brewmeister35 (Jan 5, 2008)

Some of us do different types of business and that's because of different customer base.  I sell high end AND lower end pens and will use whatever it is that people are looking for.  I can't talk someone who only wants to spend $20 on a pen into $45 because it's a higher quality and I won't try to.  I explain the different types of platings and let them choose for themselves.  I can also vouch for Tim and Tracy as I had a silly problem once and they didn't have to do anything, but they replaced what was sent at no charge and very quickly.  I won't hesitate to go back to them for that type of kit just because of that kind of service.


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