# Bronze Kitless FP



## More4dan (Oct 16, 2020)

This is my first experience turning bronze.  I used carbide inserts on my mini metal lathe.  Turning was problem free.  Drilling took some care, good cutting fluid and frequent chip clearing. It did not like my HSS cutoff tool, grabbing the tool and torquing the tool post. I used a hacksaw to make cuts on the lathe. On to the pen.

The pen uses a M11 x 0.8 triple start for the cap and a M9. X 0.75 for the section.  The finial uses a M7 x 0.75 thread.  The front section was made to use either a JOWO #5 or a Schmidt FPS rollerball nib.  It currently has a JOWO #5 “Arrow” nib in polished Stainless Steel with a fine tip. The converter is a Schmidt K6 threaded converter. The clip is recessed in the cap and is from a PSI seam ripper kit. I’m anxious to see how the color changes with time.  Comments and suggestions are always welcome. 








Danny


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## alanemorrison (Oct 16, 2020)

Danny, I'm impressed.
That's a fine, polished work of art.

Alan


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## DrD (Oct 16, 2020)

Really, really NICE!


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## moke (Oct 16, 2020)

One word Danny......WOW!!!


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## Jim15 (Oct 16, 2020)

Great work.


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## magpens (Oct 16, 2020)

Very B*E*A*U*T*I*F*U*L, Danny !!!

Very well done !!!

Where did you buy the bronze rod ?


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## Dalecamino (Oct 16, 2020)

I really like this pen Dan. Great job!


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## Dieseldoc (Oct 16, 2020)

Danny : You are on a roll with these metal pen, great work.


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## More4dan (Oct 16, 2020)

magpens said:


> Very B*E*A*U*T*I*F*U*L, Danny !!!
> 
> Very well done !!!
> 
> Where did you buy the bronze rod ?



Thanks Mal. I got the phosphorus bronze from Online metals, make sure you get the “free turning” spec. It makes drilling and turning easier. Also check the available diameters, sometimes the larger one was cheaper. 

Danny




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## magpens (Oct 16, 2020)

Thanks, Danny !!


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## BRobbins629 (Oct 16, 2020)

One of my favorite materials. Well done!!


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## lorbay (Oct 16, 2020)

Very nice Danny. 
Lin


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## Penchant 4 (Oct 17, 2020)

Quite impressive!  Beautiful writing instrument.


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## EricRN (Oct 17, 2020)

That looks really cool!  The nub in particular really suits the pen.


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## Bryguy (Oct 17, 2020)

Great job Dan. That nib looks great on this pen. Seamless transition, wonderful design.


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## PFMan (Oct 17, 2020)

amazing job and amazing, stunni pen!!!

Great, great job Dan.


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## leehljp (Oct 17, 2020)

Beautiful design and superb finish! That is the kind of design I could only expect from an artist & engineer!

There was a thread many years ago here on IAP that discussed (in a couple of posts only within the thread) the difference between a "good design" versus "magnificently artistic" - was often the difference of a half a degree in an angle or curve, or the placement of a curve or angle just 1mm different. You got that one perfect!


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## More4dan (Oct 17, 2020)

leehljp said:


> Beautiful design and superb finish! That is the kind of design I could only expect from an artist & engineer!
> 
> There was a thread many years ago here on IAP that discussed (in a couple of posts only within the thread) the difference between a "good design" versus "magnificently artistic" - was often the difference of a half a degree in an angle or curve, or the placement of a curve or angle just 1mm different. You got that one perfect!



Thanks Lee! Your feedback has always been helpful. I’ve spent a lot of time trying to get the taper and curve “just right”. I lengthened the body a bit but I think the cap may be a bit long. More experimenting will tell. 

Danny


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## Jans husband (Oct 17, 2020)

Very impressed Danny!!!

May I ask what the dimensions of the cap, body and section are, because I am particularly drawn to the proportions which finish a stunning pen?

Mike


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## wolf creek knives (Oct 17, 2020)

I'm more than impressed Danny.  Another beauty for sure!  You, my friend, have some mad skills.


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## Lucky2 (Oct 17, 2020)

Danny, that is an absolutely beautiful pen, and I hate the thoughts of allowing it to tarnish/turn color. If it belonged to me, I would make sure that it was thoroughly sealed to prevent/protect it from turning color. I would have given it a coating of lacquer right after sanding, and then given it even more coats to get the shine and finish I wanted. But, to each their own, it's your pen to do as you like with. I just hate the idea, of it tarnishing.

Len


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## More4dan (Oct 17, 2020)

Lucky2 said:


> Danny, that is an absolutely beautiful pen, and I hate the thoughts of allowing it to tarnish/turn color. If it belonged to me, I would make sure that it was thoroughly sealed to prevent/protect it from turning color. I would have given it a coating of lacquer right after sanding, and then given it even more coats to get the shine and finish I wanted. But, to each their own, it's your pen to do as you like with. I just hate the idea, of it tarnishing.
> 
> Len



I can always polish it back if I don’t like the patina look. I’m guessing a clear lacquer should work. 

Danny


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## Lucky2 (Oct 17, 2020)

Danny, lacquer is my main finish for a pen like this one, it seems to work better and lasts longer than a varnish. Any pens that I've used lacquer for a finish on, are all still in good shape finish wise. And if I still lived where I used to, I could post a few pics of those pens. But I don't, and I no longer have any contact with those people. 

Len


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## PreacherJon (Oct 17, 2020)

Impressive ... to say the least.


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## Pierre--- (Oct 18, 2020)

Design and craftsmanship are just perfect, no question about it. 
But as an user, I would worry about the duration of the finish. Some speak of adding varnish, I would say it will necessarily wear off. If you let the bronze without any, it will necessarly tarnish, for instance if one live by the sea. And the wheight could be an issue. What d'you think Dan?


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## Alchemist (Oct 19, 2020)

Whoa! 


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## More4dan (Oct 20, 2020)

Thanks everyone for the kind comments and suggestions.  There were a few questions on dimensions, so here goes. 

Cap:
OD is 0.480" at the body and 0.345" at the end of the finial
Length is 2.515"

Body: 
OD above the cap threads is 0.425" and 0.300" at the end
Length is 3.275" plus 0.875" front section for an overall length of 4.150" to the front of the section.  The nib adds another 0.765" in length

Front Section
OD at the threads and the nib is 0.400" tapered to 0.365" in the middle

The Pen capped is 5.580" long

Weight is 40 grams uncapped and 68 grams capped.  

For comparison a PSI Art Deco rollerball made with Rino Plastic is 31 grams uncapped and 57 grams capped.

Danny


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## Bats (Oct 21, 2020)

Not to repeat what's already been said, but the pen is absolutely gorgeous.

While I'm a big fan of patinas and "evolving" finishes, though, there's a chance you might want to give some thought to lacquer after all. 

I'm far from an expert (read: basically clueless), but I do know that a lot of "free-machining" metals get that way by adding lead (wikipedia says free-machining phosphor bronze uses 0.5-3% lead, and McMaster-Carr lists some Easy-to-Machine Bearing Bronze with 11-13%), which may be less than ideal for something that gets as much handling as a pen.  I don't know much (read: anything) about skin absorption, though, or how high a percentage one actually _needs_ to worry about, assuming the pen isn't being licked, chewed on, or... err... taken internally.


-Bats
(mmm... pen-licking...)


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## mark james (Oct 21, 2020)

Superb!  Very well done.  That is one I would be very proud of!


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## More4dan (Oct 21, 2020)

Bats said:


> Not to repeat what's already been said, but the pen is absolutely gorgeous.
> 
> While I'm a big fan of patinas and "evolving" finishes, though, there's a chance you might want to give some thought to lacquer after all.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the concern Bats. Your post sent me searching the internet. Lead doesn’t enter the body through the skin. It’s dangerous if eaten or the dust is inhaled. So, I’ve already gotten through the dangerous time, sanding and finishing the pen. It should be okay now. I will have to don the respirator next time I sand bronze though. I did order lead free brass for turning but didn’t think of the lead in the bronze. I’ve also discovered that even some stainless steels contain lead. Check the MSDS sheets folks when working new materials. 

Danny


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## Bats (Oct 22, 2020)

More4dan said:


> Thanks for the concern Bats. Your post sent me searching the internet. Lead doesn’t enter the body through the skin. It’s dangerous if eaten or the dust is inhaled. So, I’ve already gotten through the dangerous time, sanding and finishing the pen. It should be okay now. I will have to don the respirator next time I sand bronze though.
> I did order lead free brass for turning but didn’t think of the lead in the bronze. I’ve also discovered that even some stainless steels contain lead.


Interesting - I'd never run into it in a stainless before... although I suppose I also haven't worked with a whole lot of stainless.

Funny you should mention the sanding & inhalation issue, since I've turned & sanded a lot of 12L14 free-machining steel, and was always very conscientious about washing my hands afterwards (gotta worry about hand-to-mouth contamination on taco night, after all), but didn't even think about respiratory protection. Oops. 



More4dan said:


> Check the MSDS sheets folks when working new materials.


If only they'd include one with raw stock... Wishful thinking, I guess. Sometimes it can be hard to even figure out what alloy they're selling, never mind what precautions it requires.


In any case, glad it was actually helpful.


-Bats
(...as opposed to being that _other_ kind of "help")


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## NT_2112 (Oct 22, 2020)

Danny, did you use a collet chuck with that?  Where there any issues with the chuck marking the surface area you were holding?


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## More4dan (Oct 23, 2020)

I used a collet chuck for most of the turning. However, I used a threaded piece of aluminum to hold the bronze for sanding and polishing. The aluminum was in the collet. The chuck didn’t mark the bronze when holding it but it wasn’t in final finish. It would likely scratch it. I have wrapped pens in painters tape and use the collet chuck without marking. 

Danny


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## Bob in SF (Oct 23, 2020)

Beautiful!


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## More4dan (Oct 24, 2020)

Bats said:


> Interesting - I'd never run into it in a stainless before... although I suppose I also haven't worked with a whole lot of stainless.
> 
> Funny you should mention the sanding & inhalation issue, since I've turned & sanded a lot of 12L14 free-machining steel, and was always very conscientious about washing my hands afterwards (gotta worry about hand-to-mouth contamination on taco night, after all), but didn't even think about respiratory protection. Oops. [emoji849]
> 
> ...



My last orders from Online metals did include composition and heat number data. MSDS are available on their site. 

Danny


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## Bats (Oct 24, 2020)

More4dan said:


> My last orders from Online metals did include composition and heat number data. MSDS are available on their site.


Serves me right for buying my metal on Ebay. 

Sounds like I'll have to give them a try next time - although it's too bad they only ship UPS.


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## More4dan (Oct 24, 2020)

Bats said:


> Serves me right for buying my metal on Ebay.
> 
> Sounds like I'll have to give them a try next time - although it's too bad they only ship UPS.



Shipping can get expensive. I play with quantities and lengths to try to get the best overall deal. Sometimes 6’ lengths can be better. 

Danny 


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## howsitwork (Oct 25, 2020)

Danny 

very impressive work , as always ! 

I think you’ve got the cap proportions right from the photos .

Re the turning and cuttighosrphor bronze does “grab” as does brass and apparently ( not tried it much)  usng tools with minimal top rake (ie flat topped ) to return it does improves things. 
When drilling it , like brass,  it’s recommended in the model engineering books, to use drills with the tips slightly blunted as the drill tends to grab and pull into the material due to the helix angle. 

This is a good site for advice as well. https://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=11229.0

Not sure how it will age and colour but should be interesting.


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## More4dan (Oct 25, 2020)

howsitwork said:


> Danny
> 
> very impressive work , as always !
> 
> ...



Thanks for the comments. 
That’s a very good point on the drill bit geometry, it also holds for copper. I did take my diamond card and “flatten” the cutting edge a bit and it does make a difference. MagicTap cutting fluid helps too. 

Danny



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## Displaced Canadian (Oct 25, 2020)

More4dan said:


> Thanks Mal. I got the phosphorus bronze from Online metals, make sure you get the “free turning” spec. It makes drilling and turning easier. Also check the available diameters, sometimes the larger one was cheaper.
> 
> Danny
> 
> ...


I like the look of the pen. Is it mean to mention that I live about 5 miles from one of Online metal's locations?


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## More4dan (Oct 25, 2020)

Thanks Christopher. I’m very jealous. I’d be in trouble living that close. 


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## More4dan (Nov 9, 2020)

After a couple weeks the bronze is starting to darken a bit showing some nice “copper” hues. Here it is next to a slightly larger version I’m working on.


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## jttheclockman (Nov 9, 2020)

How the heck did I miss the original posting That is one fine piece of work. Even taking on the hue it has now still makes it a great looking pen. Sorry I missed the first posting but well done.


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## magpens (Nov 9, 2020)

Beautiful work, Danny !!! . Thanks for showing !!!

I think I like the darker hue even better than the lighter (in its original showing) !!!


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