# General Question About Nib Quality



## Fine Engineer (Mar 21, 2022)

Looking at the web site of a nib supplier, I was surprised to see the range of prices. I understand the $3-$4 ones are likely to be pretty rough, and the $8-$15 ones perform generally pretty well. But what about these that are $125 - $250? Some have some obvious bling value, but is the quality and writing performance justified by those high prices? This was just for the nib and nib mount- no converter or anything else.


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## jalbert (Mar 21, 2022)

Link for context?


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## monophoto (Mar 21, 2022)

Jeff

I presume you are asking about fountain pen nibs.  there are several ways to break down nibs.  The factor that makes the most difference in cost is the material being used - less expensive nibs are typically steel, while the very expensive nibs are gold. 

Obviously, cheap steel nibs are cheap, but in general, some steel nibs are very good.  Steel nibs tend to be stiffer than gold nibs; once aligned, they hold their alignment very well.  Brands such as Bock and Jowo are excellent.

Gold nibs are soft and can easily become distorted.  In general, gold nibs require more maintenance because they are so soft.  Gold nibs tsend to be found on more expensive pens (naturally).  And while gold nibs can perform better than steel nibs (specifically, write more smoothly), there is also a vanity factor associated with gold nibs - because they are made of gold, they are inherently better and therefore carry a higher price, so pens with gold nibs are therefore also better, etc.  

There are special nibs that can cost more than standard nibs simply because the market demand for them is so much less.  One of the more popular special nib is the flex-nib - this is a nib that is designed to be very soft so that the nib splays a bit during writing, resulting in variation in line width. 

In terms of writing performance, gold nibs do write more smoothly than steel nibs, but I still prefer steel over gold.  A good quality steel nib can write almost as smoothly as a gold nib, but it has the advantage that it will continue that performance over a long period, possibly over the entire lifetime of the pen.  My experience with a pen having a gold nib was that it had to be returned to the factor for maintenance every couple of years, with each repair costing $50-70.  That quickly adds up.


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## jttheclockman (Mar 21, 2022)

From what little I know about fountain pens, the nib is just one part of a good writing experience. The right ink is big deal (not all inks are alike) and also the paper they are being used on. Again not all paper is the same. Lower priced nibs can perform as well as so called highend ones if tuned right and conditions are right.


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## Fine Engineer (Mar 21, 2022)

jalbert said:


> Link for context?


Here's the site that prompted the question, and a page that has the full range of prices;








						BOCK
					

Gold, titanium, platinum, palladium and steel nibs from the german manufacturer. Whole range of customizations available.




					fpnibs.com
				



In the case of the Bock nibs shown here, the one at the bottom is €270, and is palladium, but very plain. Does this nib write noticeably better than the 250 platinum (€190), or the 250 steel for €12.75?


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## Aurelius (Mar 21, 2022)

As someone who is working exclusively in fountain pens, here is what I can tell you.

There is a lot of cheap crap out there.  These are likely the $3-4 dollar nibs you mentioned and are the ones included with most pen kits.  They are mostly made in China and a lot of them tend to have the "Iridium Point Germany" imprint.  Don't be fooled, this imprint basically means the little ball of irridium may be from Germany, not that it is finely crafted German nib.  I have heard that some of these nibs can be good with a little work but, for the little extra cost, you can get a Jowo or Bock that will be better.

The next step up are the steel nibs.  The main players are Jowo, Bock, and, to a lesser extent, Schmidt.  In the US, Jowo is distributed through Meisternibs and Bock is through Pen Realm.  Both site also have the necessary taps to go with the nibs.  Both Jowo and Bock are mainstays in the kitless pen world and both camps have their following.  The main reason they are popular is because they are consistently good and, once you have a few nibs, you can swap freely amongst your collection.

From there, things escalate quickly.  Bock makes a titanium nib which is the same size as the steel and is bouncier in use but is a much more malleable material so is easily sprung in the wrong hands.  These tend to be in the $75+ range.  Some people love them, others hate them.

The top of the market is the gold nibs. Gold nibs come in both 14k an 18k and I believe both Jowo and Bock are available in both.  What's the difference you may ask? About 4k.  Seriously, it is my understanding that the difference is more historical with certain countries having laws aroudn gold content that led to one or the other and that has persisted to this day.  I have used both and you would be hard pressed to tell them apart.  May people claim vintage 14k nibs are springier and have more flex to them but the modern ones are pretty much equivalent.  The gold nibs are also going to be the most expensive, starting at over $125.

One other thing to think about is customer expectations.  If you are targeting the higher end market, there is a price point after which people just expect a gold nib or, at the very least, will question its absence.  I'm talking $400-500 so, if that's not where you are planning on selling, you don't have to worry about it.

I hope that helps.


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## jalbert (Mar 21, 2022)

I’ve never used the bock gold nibs, so I can’t really say. I would venture to guess that there isn’t any noticeable difference in smoothness, as they all (gold,palladium, platinum, steel) use the same tipping material, which ultimately determines the smoothness. The idea that gold writes more smoothly is a myth that has been perpetuated.


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## Aurelius (Mar 21, 2022)

monophoto said:


> My experience with a pen having a gold nib was that it had to be returned to the factor for maintenance every couple of years, with each repair costing $50-70.


I mean no offense but, if that is the case,  it sounds like you are pressing way too hard on your nibs.  Gold is more malleable than steel so is more likely to get sprung with excess pressure.  I have always thought the best aspect of using a fountain pen is that it should require little to no pressure to use and the nib should glide over the paper with little more than the weight of the pen providing all the pressure needed.

In normal use, a gold nib (and a steel nib as well for that matter) should last decades.  There are plenty of vintage nibs out there, both gold and steel that are pushing 100 years old and still plugging away.


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## monophoto (Mar 21, 2022)

Fine Engineer said:


> Here's the site that prompted the question, and a page that has the full range of prices;
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't own any of the three you mention, but my expectation is that there would not be a significant difference in the writing experience right out of the box.  It is possible that there could be perceptible differences after being tuned by a competent nibmeister.

For my money, the difference between titaniium, palladium, platinum and gold nibs is marketing hype.  The higher prices are mainly a consequence of the mystique of the relatively more rare metals.


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## Fine Engineer (Mar 21, 2022)

Aurelius said:


> I mean no offense but, if that is the case,  it sounds like you are pressing way too hard on your nibs.  Gold is more malleable than steel so is more likely to get sprung with excess pressure.  I have always thought the best aspect of using a fountain pen is that it should require little to no pressure to use and the nib should glide over the paper with little more than the weight of the pen providing all the pressure needed.
> 
> In normal use, a gold nib (and a steel nib as well for that matter) should last decades.  There are plenty of vintage nibs out there, both gold and steel that are pushing 100 years old and still plugging away.


Thanks for the feedback. I've noticed that I use very little pressure when using a fountain pen, as that is part of the attraction for the style, right?  I know paper can be very abrasive, but with the ink providing some lubricity, the effect on the nib should be nearly imperceptible. I've read some articles regarding the supposed faux pas of lending a fountain pen to another person and having it change the writing feel of the pen, and thinking that one would have to use a lot of pressure to change the characteristics of a nib like that.

Here's a page for the Parker nibs, and these look like the bling is the attraction (https://fpnibs.com/collections/parker-nibs).  
I'd like to try the different nibs personally to see if there is any perceptible difference.  I suspect that if there is a difference, it is a case of diminishing returns at the high end, and the improvements in performance become imperceptibly small.  But being pretty new to this, that's why I came here to get the opinions of those with more experience than I.


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## Pierre--- (Mar 21, 2022)

The good question depends of your point of view...
If you are a seller, you have to tune the nib, this is the good question, much more usefull than which one to choose. Very cheap ones are Chinese (Iridium Point Germany). Hard or very hard or impossible to tune, two nibs out of three break or cannot be properly tuned, and the clients usually prefer German Jowo or Bock. So for the price you'd rather choose Jowo or Bock steel nib (around 12$), you still have to tune it, but it works and the client is satisfied. 
About Gold nibs (or titan, or platinum, or anything more expensive than 50$), you do not choose it, the client does and asks for this or that one, so you do not have to worry about choosing or why (snobish, more springy, gold love, whatever). But you still have to tune it.


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## PatrickR (Mar 21, 2022)

Pierre--- said:


> The good question depends of your point of view...
> If you are a seller, you have to tune the nib, this is the good question, much more usefull than which one to choose. Very cheap ones are Chinese (Iridium Point Germany). Hard or very hard or impossible to tune, two nibs out of three break or cannot be properly tuned, and the clients usually prefer German Jowo or Bock. So for the price you'd rather choose Jowo or Bock steel nib (around 12$), you still have to tune it, but it works and the client is satisfied.
> About Gold nibs (or titan, or platinum, or anything more expensive than 50$), you do not choose it, the client does and asks for this or that one, so you do not have to worry about choosing or why (snobish, more springy, gold love, whatever). But you still have to tune it.


This is a very good point but the ”you” should be “it”. I don‘t think a pen maker should be expected to be a nibmeister. That is a specialty and I think best left to the specialists.
I have gotten nibs that worked perfectly out of the box and some that did not. Now i purchase from a company (PR) that does a basic tune with purchase. More up front but worth it to me.


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## Fine Engineer (Mar 22, 2022)

PatrickR said:


> This is a very good point but the ”you” should be “it”. I don‘t think a pen maker should be expected to be a nibmeister. That is a specialty and I think best left to the specialists.
> I have gotten nibs that worked perfectly out of the box and some that did not. Now i purchase from a company (PR) that does a basic tune with purchase. More up front but worth it to me.


Patrick,
Which supplier is this?  I just found www.nibsmith.com, and they offer a 'tune and smooth' service for no extra cost to their nib units.


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## PatrickR (Mar 22, 2022)

Fine Engineer said:


> Patrick,
> Which supplier is this?  I just found www.nibsmith.com, and they offer a 'tune and smooth' service for no extra cost to their nib units.


Pen Realm. Good to know about nibsmith also. It seems to be factored into the price but well worth it to me.
(edit) I just looked at nibsmith and they don’t appear to cary Bock or Jowo.


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## jalbert (Mar 22, 2022)

Basic smoothing of a stock jowo/bock isn’t difficult. I firmly believe anyone who is selling fountain pens should automatically be doing this with any pen they sell. People aren’t going to be thrilled when they pay $200+ for a pen that doesn’t write well out of the box, and even less thrilled when the burden falls on them to send it to a nibmeister for work.


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## PatrickR (Mar 22, 2022)

jalbert said:


> Basic smoothing of a stock jowo/bock isn’t difficult. I firmly believe anyone who is selling fountain pens should automatically be doing this with any pen they sell. People aren’t going to be thrilled when they pay $200+ for a pen that doesn’t write well out of the box, and even less thrilled when the burden falls on them to send it to a nibmeister for work.


I would agree with this, just choose to leave the tuning to someone else. I’ve attempted it and ruined a couple nibs in the process. The small up-charge paid for a known commodity is worth it to me. I don't sell pens, but would think that the fact that the nib had already been gone over by a “nibmeister” would be a good selling point.


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## Fine Engineer (Mar 22, 2022)

I think it would be a good selling point to note that the nib was 'Professionally Tuned' prior to delivery to the customer. Whether that is by the pen maker or the nib supplier is a matter of choice.  First impressions are critical, so having a pen that writes really well right out of the box sets the customer off with a very positive first experience with the instrument.


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## goldendj (Mar 22, 2022)

I've been following this with interest.  Is there anywhere that identifies which nibs the different kit pens use?  I've bought several different nibs and none of them fit right.


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## PatrickR (Mar 23, 2022)

goldendj said:


> I've been following this with interest.  Is there anywhere that identifies which nibs the different kit pens use?  I've bought several different nibs and none of them fit right.


Not that I’m aware of. Kits don’t use the standard Bock or Jowo housings. If you want to use a Bock nib in a kit pen contact Beaufort ink. He can supply a bock nib in a housing for most kits.


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## Bope (Mar 23, 2022)

I have found Jowo nibs to fit the FP kits I have made. All my kits have been from PSI or Exotic Blanks.


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## darrin1200 (Mar 23, 2022)

Nibs are almost a science unto themselves. 

This is an article by Richard Binder talking about nib materials.





						To the Point: Nib Materials
					

Nib makers have used many different materials over the years: gold, palladium silver, steel, brass, titanium... So what's the best material for nibs, and why?




					www.richardspens.com


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