# cutting threads



## wb7whi (Jan 30, 2010)

I was trying to match up one of my dies to the back end of a kit fountain pen nib (the kind that fits the common screwcaps like the Sedona) so I would know which tap to use but had no match. Is this some kind of a special thread and size? It appears to be just under 3/8 inch.

Go ahead, tell me its metric and I need a new set...

I can take it!


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## BRobbins629 (Jan 30, 2010)

Worse than that.  Most are not even standard metric.  The one that is a very close 10x1m is the nib that fits the ElGrande or Churchill kits.  You can but these separately from several vendors.


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## mredburn (Jan 30, 2010)

If I have the right part its measures 9.6mm x .75  a custom tap starts at 180.00 dollars but it gets cheaper if you make more than one.  The best value i found is 12 at 23 dollars each, costs about the same as having two made.


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## Manny (Jan 31, 2010)

It's a freaking conspiracy!


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## mredburn (Jan 31, 2010)

Hmmm probably not  Manny


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## wb7whi (Feb 1, 2010)

just keeps getting better and better...thanks guys


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## Manny (Feb 1, 2010)

Don't they need to be multi start as well?


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## Dan_F (Feb 1, 2010)

Wayne---If you are talking about cap threads rather than section threads, the price goes up quite a bit for multi-start tap and dies. Some of us did a group buy on sets for the El Grande size pens a while back, and they came out to over $200.00 a set for the group purchase. 

Dan


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## workinforwood (Feb 3, 2010)

There really is no conspiracy.  If you purchased one of my custom pens and wanted to replace a part, you would have a hard time finding a tap or die to do so as well.  This is because of the ability to build a pen on a whim.  With a metal lathe, there is no rules as to what diameter, pitch or angle that a thread needs to be.  I can spin down a rod to any size I feel comfortable.  I don't need to use any calipers or calculations. I can then thread the rod with a single point bit to whatever angle and depth looks good to me.  I can take a piece of that rod about 2" long or so..eyeball is fine because it isn't important.  I part the rod.  I chuck the small piece, grab a die grinder and cut four notches across the threads.  Now I have a tap that perfectly matches the rod.  The rod becomes the nib and finial and the tap is used in the cap.  Pens are not like cars, needing some parts to be somewhat universal.  Now if you are a large pen company, in the design stage, you may start of somewhat similar.  You need all the parts for that line to be the same, but they don't have to be usable with another line of pens, and maybe you don't want people to intermix different types of pens together, so you make yours a bit different.  If you were to get into doing vintage repairs, then you would find out quickly that you need to purchase 10,000 taps and die's, or else you need to get a metal lathe, figure out the diameter and pitch of the threads, and make your own taps.  Pens are like art, and there doesn't have to be rules in art.   You go with what you feel as you build it.  That's why it's special.


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## bitshird (Feb 3, 2010)

Nothing like precision machine work right Jeff?


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## cnirenberg (Feb 3, 2010)

wb7whi said:


> just keeps getting better and better...thanks guys



Welcome to the club.  Sorry Wayne.


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## workinforwood (Feb 3, 2010)

bitshird said:


> Nothing like precision machine work right Jeff?



Uh..yeah, maybe Ken.  Depends how I read the comment I suppose.  I know it can look like if you don't worry about the diameter and just thread it anyway you want, then it doesn't sound precise, but at the same time it is exactly precise, as all the parts fit like a perfect glove.  Or I can read it as...because the threading can be done this way in custom and vintage pens, that you need to practice precision machine work to do repairs...that's either a fun time or not, depending on the individual.  Personally, I like challenges.


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## wb7whi (Feb 3, 2010)

*custom built pen*

If you are talking about putting the two parts of the pen together I agree and do not have a problem with that. The nib, or where the nib fits (sorry, do not know pen nomenclature that well) is a different story. Because you need a specific tap for the nib unit to screw into. 

The inside of the houseing (grip) has 'stuff' in it for the nib so I do not know if you can make a custom holder for the nib and feeder (?) to slide into. 

Then there is the back end that accesses the ink cartridge. Actually I would not be adverse to making my own housing for the nib to replace the black plastic but all I have seen is a wood sleeve that fits over the plastic.

If I could make my own, what is it called, the grip, then I could use a tap and die of my choosing to thread the grip into the barrel.
Jeeze, which I knew what I was talking about...

Wayne




workinforwood said:


> There really is no conspiracy. If you purchased one of my custom pens and wanted to replace a part, you would have a hard time finding a tap or die to do so as well. This is because of the ability to build a pen on a whim. With a metal lathe, there is no rules as to what diameter, pitch or angle that a thread needs to be. I can spin down a rod to any size I feel comfortable. I don't need to use any calipers or calculations. I can then thread the rod with a single point bit to whatever angle and depth looks good to me. I can take a piece of that rod about 2" long or so..eyeball is fine because it isn't important. I part the rod. I chuck the small piece, grab a die grinder and cut four notches across the threads. Now I have a tap that perfectly matches the rod. The rod becomes the nib and finial and the tap is used in the cap. Pens are not like cars, needing some parts to be somewhat universal. Now if you are a large pen company, in the design stage, you may start of somewhat similar. You need all the parts for that line to be the same, but they don't have to be usable with another line of pens, and maybe you don't want people to intermix different types of pens together, so you make yours a bit different. If you were to get into doing vintage repairs, then you would find out quickly that you need to purchase 10,000 taps and die's, or else you need to get a metal lathe, figure out the diameter and pitch of the threads, and make your own taps. Pens are like art, and there doesn't have to be rules in art. You go with what you feel as you build it. That's why it's special.


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## wb7whi (Feb 3, 2010)

Ok, I think I have it. First you make a section that fits over that black plastic thingy then cut your own threads on the back of it and by default you would then have the right tap size for the barrel.
I suppose you can turn down the black plastic a touch, the one I am looking at appears to be slightly tapered - OOOhhh, I feel many mistakes and a whole new language coming up


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## ldb2000 (Feb 4, 2010)

Wayne , The black plastic thingy is called the housing , it holds the nib and feed and has the nipple to accept the cartridge/converter and threads to screw it into the grip . This is not a replaceable part , the nib/feed is usually keyed into it and/or is bored to a precision size . The grip is the outer sleeve that accepts the threaded nib/feed/housing and the whole assembly is called the front section . The section on some pens is a one piece design , the nib/feed fit into a one piece section , the El Grande sections are one of those one piece sections and must be used as is .
Jeff , not to pick nits but if you just make random size threads that you like , you better make a list of all the sizes of the parts and hope you can reproduce them so if you ever have to make a replacement part you will be able to duplicate it exactly . It is far better to use standard sizes when making the threaded parts . It will make your life much happier if you do . I try to use standard size taps and dies for most of my pens with the exception of the cap threads (multi start) which I already have a tap and die set for . For section to body threads I use either 3/8" x 24 for the small nibs or 10mm x 1 for the large nibs , I also use the 3/8" x 24 for blind caps and finials . 
For using sections from other pens I will make a tap for the section on the metal lathe but I still use the standard sizes for the other parts . It just makes making replacement parts easier in the long run .


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## Manny (Feb 4, 2010)

workinforwood said:


> There really is no conspiracy.  If you purchased one of my custom pens and wanted to replace a part, you would have a hard time finding a tap or die to do so as well.  This is because of the ability to build a pen on a whim.  With a metal lathe, there is no rules as to what diameter, pitch or angle that a thread needs to be.  I can spin down a rod to any size I feel comfortable.  I don't need to use any calipers or calculations. I can then thread the rod with a single point bit to whatever angle and depth looks good to me.  I can take a piece of that rod about 2" long or so..eyeball is fine because it isn't important.  I part the rod.  I chuck the small piece, grab a die grinder and cut four notches across the threads.  Now I have a tap that perfectly matches the rod.  The rod becomes the nib and finial and the tap is used in the cap.  Pens are not like cars, needing some parts to be somewhat universal.  Now if you are a large pen company, in the design stage, you may start of somewhat similar.  You need all the parts for that line to be the same, but they don't have to be usable with another line of pens, and maybe you don't want people to intermix different types of pens together, so you make yours a bit different.  If you were to get into doing vintage repairs, then you would find out quickly that you need to purchase 10,000 taps and die's, or else you need to get a metal lathe, figure out the diameter and pitch of the threads, and make your own taps.  Pens are like art, and there doesn't have to be rules in art.   You go with what you feel as you build it.  That's why it's special.




My comment was about the OP's question.


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## workinforwood (Feb 4, 2010)

Yes, Butch, I agree about keeping within some standards.  I should clarify that what I said is what can be done and not necessarily what I do...easy to get confused. I practiced cutting threads for a while and quickly learned that I can cut a million thread sizes and styles with just a single cutter.  I switched out to a specific cutter tip for .75, which will only cut those threads, because that is the size I chose for my couplers. Now I do not have to worry much about diameter.  If I cut a thread, I can duplicate it over and over again, just buy measuring the OD of the threads. This does make life easier for me.  
 For a nib feed, you can shave off the threads on it and slip a threaded insert over it, and the housing can also be shaved down and a new one slipped over that.  Don't worry about the taper, the plastic sleeve on an El Grande has a taper, but can be turned down and straight.  You also have the option of buying Lou's nibs and he has taps that fit his nib housings.  His housings are straight and can still be added on to.
This is an El Grande.  The housing was shaved down thin and a new housing was made and slipped on with some epoxy.


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## wb7whi (Feb 4, 2010)

It makes life so much easier when other people know what I am talking about 

I have been looking at the nib houseing for the screw caps that have a small metal band at the front. Is this so much different than the el grande? 
Also, as mentioned before does a 3/8X24 tap create a thread that the nib houseing will screw into? I did not see that in my tests.

Wayne





workinforwood said:


> Yes, Butch, I agree about keeping within some standards. I should clarify that what I said is what can be done and not necessarily what I do...easy to get confused. I practiced cutting threads for a while and quickly learned that I can cut a million thread sizes and styles with just a single cutter. I switched out to a specific cutter tip for .75, which will only cut those threads, because that is the size I chose for my couplers. Now I do not have to worry much about diameter. If I cut a thread, I can duplicate it over and over again, just buy measuring the OD of the threads. This does make life easier for me.
> For a nib feed, you can shave off the threads on it and slip a threaded insert over it, and the housing can also be shaved down and a new one slipped over that. Don't worry about the taper, the plastic sleeve on an El Grande has a taper, but can be turned down and straight. You also have the option of buying Lou's nibs and he has taps that fit his nib housings. His housings are straight and can still be added on to.
> This is an El Grande. The housing was shaved down thin and a new housing was made and slipped on with some epoxy.


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## wb7whi (Feb 5, 2010)

Ok, I think I have it now. I need the small tap for the small nib housing and a 6mm hole to tap.

Now all I have to do is find the part of the heritage web site that sells the tap. So far I have not got the right combination into google. Been reading back posts as well...back to July so far 

Thanks for the help folks


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## ldb2000 (Feb 5, 2010)

I think you have to PM Lou and request access to the pen makers section of his site .


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## workinforwood (Feb 5, 2010)

I like the small nib sections that Lou sells.  If you get the tap, it is a perfect fit into a 7mm tube.  So you can just spin a 7mm pen and tap the tube for the nib. Great for the ladies with small hands.


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