# Danish Oil Over Shellac/BLO



## _Greg_ (Aug 13, 2016)

Hello,
I am trying to achieve a top coat with a natural wood feel, and finish on some of my wood pen blanks. I have spun a couple of thin coats of BLO/Denatured Alcohol/Bulls Eye Shellac at a ratio of 1/3-1/3-1/3 after sanding with MM 600 grit. And of course the Shellac just doesn't last, so I would like to know how this shellac sealer will react with Danish Oil as a top coat before I mess the whole project up? Would it be more durable than the Shellac? I have used General Finishes clear, but I just don't like the plastic look/feel. Unfortunately I haven't had any experience with CA, so that's for another turning session, but for now the natural look is what I would like to solve, hopefully with Danish oil. I would appreciate any advice and help.

Greg


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## KenV (Aug 13, 2016)

Shellac as a finish or a wood sealer is compatible with about everything but water.  It works in the coatings on M&Ms

"Danish Oil" is generally a varnish, oil (usually boiled linseed oil), and a solvent (often mineral spirits).   One of the classic mixes is 1/3 oil based varnish 1/3 boiled linseed oil, and 1/3 mineral spirits.  I often used spar varnish.

Commercial mixes are trade secrets, and do change from time to time.  Some include pigments.

All tend to be soft, but are easy to reapply.  Not my first, second, or third choice for a pen finish, but bettter than a wax stick.


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## _Greg_ (Aug 13, 2016)

Thanks for the reply. 
Ok, so does this mean that the mix that I have just put on these blanks (Shellac/BLO/Alcohol) is basically the same thing as the 1 to 3 ratio mix of BLO/Danish Oil/ Mineral Spirits that you were speaking of? I want to learn more about finishes, and I hope that everyone doesn't mind the dumb questions. Thanks again


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## KenV (Aug 13, 2016)

Shellac/alcohol mixtures with oil and usually a wax are called a "friction polish"

Varnish oil mineral spirits are an oil-varnish finish when cured.  Also called danish oil.  Your mix will be oil rich and resin poor and I would expect it to be very slow curing and very soft.


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## jttheclockman (Aug 13, 2016)

Hello Greg

Now this is my opinion but I have been doing this for quite some time so I do know a little bit about what I am talking. When you sealed the wood with shellac you did close the pores of the wood. Now trying to put an oil finish on top will only cause problems. It will bead and form little pockets that will not look good. It will do nothing to enhance the feel of the wood because you sealed the wood as I mentioned. 

As mentioned Danish oils are a combination of usually boiled linseed oil, polyurethane, and some sort of driers such as mineral spirits.

What I would do is sand the blank up to 600 grit and then apply a couple coats of Danish oil alone. This will seal the wood, add a top coat with the poly and can be buffed to a beautiful warm shine. It will not polish to a high gloss. If you want that then you need to top coat again with straight poly. Now I must warn you that using Danish oil or any oils will tint the wood yellow somewhat. Unless you are using holly then this is not a problem. Even maples look better with a warm color. I use this for all my scrollsawn projects when I want that warm velvet touch of wood when people feel it.


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## _Greg_ (Aug 13, 2016)

This is exactly what I wanted to know, both of you guys have explained what I asked. Ken, I appreciate your input and your knowledge. J.T., obviously you evidently like no frills projects at times, where growth of the wood and grain itself and the feel of it, is the star of the show. And that is a very good thing. I guess I'm a sentimental old fool in a way. 

Have a nice weekend to all!
Greg


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## leehljp (Aug 14, 2016)

Greg,

The "wood feel" is fine for wood that is looked at and touched on occasion. Most new guys to pen turning with a woodworking background don't realize the difference in the way a pen is handled versus a fine piece of wood furniture or wood shelf decoration/ornament. A pen is handled many times a day. For men, it is put into a pocket where (almost 100%) humidity from sweating affects it. Or sweaty palms and dirt from hands. It goes from 120° heat in a car (if left there) down to below freezing. In a purse, it will bang around; same in trousers as it mixes with coins jingling.

Normal and fine wood finishes are not designed for this kind of temp changes, humidity swings, and rough usage, and neither are the fine pieces of wood work designed to handle what pens go through.

The finish that you asked about - can and will work if one cares for the pen, rubs  and cleans it daily, and keeps it in a velvet pouch. But how many people will do that. A wood pen is not a piece of furniture. It is a fine piece of wood work, but it needs a different finish to handle the unintentional beating it gets.


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## jttheclockman (Aug 14, 2016)

You bring up good points Hank. These are all factors. As I sit here I was thinking one of these days I have to put a Danish oiled pen through some rigorous testing and see what results become of it. Any suggestions on the type wood you would like to see this happen to???  If I have some or something close I will give it a try in the near future.  Or maybe someone has tried this before and I would love to hear their results.


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## donstephan (Aug 14, 2016)

It is important to distinguish between traditional and dewaxed shellac.  Shellac naturally has a wax component, and water borne finishes often will not adhere to it.  One can buy dewaxed shellac flakes from many sources to make your own various cuts, and at least one commercially available liquid shellac is dewaxed, but I'm not sure the brand name.  If dewaxed, likely that is indicated on the label.

My understanding is that Danish oil (DO) is a mixture of mineral spirits, boiled linseed oil (BLO), and (oil based) varnish.  It is difficult or impossible to learn the ratios of commercially mixed DO, or the particular type of varnish that is used.  Many woodworkers mix their own as needed in the ratio 1:1:1.

Recommendations for using DO generally suggest applying a wet coat, waiting a minute or two, then wiping as dry as possible with clean paper towels.  Many users will apply a number of coats (with adequate drying time after each) quickly the wood surface is completely sealed.  So it's not clear why DO applied over dewaxed shellac would bead up because the surface is sealed, or why a wet coat of DO would be left on the surface.  I've applied as many as five or six coats of mineral spirits/BLO/P&L38 alkyd varnish on a number of different woods and never saw any beading up.

It is widely accepted that DO is a "softer" finish relative to some others, because of the BLO component.  A couple years ago I switched from the DO mix in the prior paragraph to a 1:1 wiping varnish of mineral spirits and P&L 38 to get a more durable finish.  With five or six coats of this wiping varnish my red oak cereal bowl shows no sign of water damage after a year of daily milk and corn flakes for breakfast.  Red oak is not impervious to liquid, which is why water, denatured alcohol, and other liquids quickly move through red oak and the wood is not used for wine and whiskey barrels.  But the wiping varnish seals the wood completely, is impervious to water, and does not water spot.

The question of suitable finishes for "working" pens kept in sweaty pockets with other metal objects is an excellent one.  One wonders if any finish can stand up to such use over time.  In part, the wood would have to be completely sealed on all surfaces, including the drilled hole and the end, so moisture could not get behind a still effective coating.

Perhaps the original poster could experiment on some scrap wood over several days to see if there are any compatibility issues.


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## leehljp (Aug 14, 2016)

donstephan said:


> . . .
> The question of suitable finishes for "working" pens kept in sweaty pockets with other metal objects is an excellent one.  *One wonders if any finish can stand up to such use over time. * In part, the wood would have to be completely sealed on all surfaces, including the drilled hole and the end, so moisture could not get behind a still effective coating.
> 
> Perhaps the original poster could experiment on some scrap wood over several days to see if there are any compatibility issues.



You don't have to wonder about that. CA does this well and time proves it. Thinly and wrongly applied CA will allow moisture in, but that is due to inexperience. Lacquer does well too, and some poly/varnishes. Gym floors take a beating, so do bowling alleys. There are finishes that will take it, but it must be applied correctly for the job it is expected to do. 

I have mentioned the sweaty palms and humid pockets many times over the years, but I do that to get people's attention. The real culprit is the simple unseen dirt build up over the course of two or three hours, once in the morning and once in the evening will have an effect on the pen over 3 to 4 months just like the grim on a kitchen cabinet. That is not counting the humidity aspect. 

Someone posted this very problem earlier this week. A nicely made pen that showed the dirt/hand stain on the wood over a few months. It was given to a surgeon who washes his hands rigorously several times a day. You cannot equate normal fine finishes on fine furniture to that of pens.


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## KenV (Aug 14, 2016)

Greg,

The "natural wood feel" term is one I hear from flat work woodworkers who mostly work with domestic woods.  

Fine grain hardwoods like boxwood, pink ivory, eboneys, snakewood, and mesquite when sanded to P800 do not have much texture to feel.  Pens, with a durable finish have about the same feel as a french polished table.  And I have put a polished french polished on a few display presentation pens.

A working pen needs durability of the finish on a tavern table in a working pub,  a bar top, or a well used wood floor.  

If you want feel on an open grained hardwood as the paramount goal, use Hut wax sticks.  If you want durability and appearance over time, feel will have to give.

By the way, I like hand tool woodworking and furniture restoration too.


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## _Greg_ (Aug 14, 2016)

Sooo? this really has opened up a big can of worms. If the nostalgic or (old school look) and feel, is what one is after in a pen. Durability from everyday use, wear and tear will suffer in it dramatically. I guess I need to explore other finishes. Can you guys lead me to other applications CA or Poly, Satin or Gloss? Stains etc. 

I have boo-coos of Red and White Oak and they are beautiful. I just need to develop a finish/stain for them, as they are native woods to N.C. This particular project is a pen that I am going to give to the Pulmonary Surgeon that saved my life last August, and I really don't think that it is going to be something that he would want to use everyday. Not that my work is a museum quality instrument LOL! But, I think he will hold onto it because he is a very fine person IMHO, but you never know.

Anyway, if there are any suggestions for tutorials on IAP that might help me to be a better finisher, please don't hesitate to let me know. As I said earlier, CA is a possibility, and Poly, although the CA ... that is some bad stuff in your lungs. Believe me I know, this is a fact.

Thanks again guys,
Greg


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## jttheclockman (Aug 14, 2016)

Greg it is not a can or worms you opened up because finishing our pens is a constant discussion and there are many thoughts, methods, and formulas used along with many products. 

Let me step back to Don's comment because I think in a way he is answering or questioning my findings about using dewaxed shellac and Danish oil. There is no need to use shellac of any kind if using Danish oil. It has the properties of sealing the wood and also top coating to a certain degree. I say certain degree because it is not design to be a film top coat as is straight poly, lacquers, or even CA. Those are film finishes. When you use a shellac of any kind you are sealing the wood pores. Now there is no place for the Danish oil to be absorbed. It will lay on top and weather it beads is irrelevant. It will dry in clumps unless you wipe it off and when you do that it is like not even putting it on. This is what I use when using shellac of any kind.  http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/ProductImages/finishing/195831.jpg  This is my findings on this because I use Watco Danish oil by the gallons and have a feel for it. 

Again this is my thoughts on the subject. When you use exotics which are very oily in nature, have different reactions to finishes than say woods like oak or maple or other domestic woods. I just wish I could have each and everyone feel a sample of any wood with Danish oil applied as opposed to any wood with CA, compared to Poly compared to Lacquer. They all have a different feel. If you do not believe me run your own tests. Now I must tell you I sand only to 220 grit but on occasion I will step up to 400 grit but no higher. The example of the horse clock is made from red oak and zebra wood as the base. Both were dipped in 2 coats of Danish oil. Not sure if you can see the difference in sheen. The oak is flatter and the zebra is more shinier because of the oils in the wood. It was polished out and need to be because of puddling. The feel is a wood like feel. Not plastic. Again my thoughts.

Now your concerns for a finish are valid. Do some searches here and you will find tons of threads on this subject. Each and every person will have their opinion and there methods. CA has been proven over the years to be the best most durable finish but it comes with a learning curve and again many methods of applying. Do a search of the library and also utube has many videos. I think there are some members here that have done videos who love being in front of the camera. 

Poly and lacquer are also very durable finishes and I have never heard anything to the contrary in spite of everyone touting a CA finish. I wish I could tell you what the final results of a Danish oil finish would be but I never done a pen. One thing to remember because you said oak was your wood of choice. It is a very open grained wood and to get that smooth CA finish will take a few extra coats to fill that grain in.    

I wish you luck and again I must stress these are my opinions and I will stand behind them. There are a few finishing gurus in the woodworking world and it may behoove you to give them a read. 

www.penturners.org/forum/f28/flexner-pen-finishes-141408/index2.html




Just did a little web searching and found this which backs up what I am trying to say.

www.thewoodwhisperer.com/articles/danish-oil-on-top-of-shellac/

www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?156630-Danish-oil-over-shellac


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## _Greg_ (Aug 15, 2016)

Your reply is surely appreciated J.T. and the information that you have given me will be used very soon. All of these suggestions will give me a good starting place in my future attempts at pen making, not to mention any other finishes that I might want to try my hand at. 

Many thanks 
Greg


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## leehljp (Aug 15, 2016)

_Greg_ said:


> Your reply is surely appreciated J.T. and the information that you have given me will be used very soon. All of these suggestions will give me a good starting place in my future attempts at pen making, not to mention any other finishes that I might want to try my hand at.
> 
> Many thanks
> Greg



Greg,

People are often discovering a new technique or finish that works for them, and maybe not for others, but still we like to know. It might help someone else. A few people take acrylic sheets and dissolve it in acetone, basically creating liquid acrylic. It works for some but not for others. I was one that had trouble with it. I did try the dipping method with poly and with lacquer. It worked fine for me but just took too much time for what I needed.

Here is a link that discusses the "feel" a few posts down under "tactile" feel:

http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=32496&highlight=shine 

I posted that way back when because of the "plastic" look of CA. By using micromesh at a low enough number (3600 - 4000 IIRC), it gave the protection that was needed for all the situations that we put pens through, but also let the wood show through somewhat better than pure shine does. And even then it produced a different "feel", even though that may be perceptive as much as real.


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## donstephan (Aug 16, 2016)

My apologies for careless wording in my post in this discussion.  My comments were for generic oil-varnish blend, not the commercial product "Danish Oil".  A couple years ago I decided to explore oil-varnish blends and wiping varnishes, and read everything I could find on these finishes by Jeff Jewitt, Bob Flexner, and three others whose names escape me.  One point I omitted, the most commonly mentioned formula for oil-varnish blend is equal parts mineral spirits, boiled linseed oil, and one of the varnishes (alkyd, polyurethane, and a third whose name also escapes me).  The mineral spirits is to make the result spreadable by rag, the boiled linseed oil is to "warm" the wood and lengthen the working time, and the varnish is to provide a more durable finish.  Jeff offered he used the ratio 1 part boiled linseed oil, four parts varnish, and four parts mineral spirits to increase the rate at which the finish will build.  All of the literature I found was in terms of applying multiple coats, whether using oil-varnish blend or wiping varnish.  Yes, each coat applied as those authors suggested is very thin, but there is a noticeable build after four or five coats.  Again, sorry for the inattention to wording.


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## Wildman (Aug 17, 2016)

Just my two cents!  

Today almost all polyurethane & varnishes contain very little natural resins thanks to life thru chemistry.  Generally speaking they contain chemical resins and can contain both chemical dryers and oils.  

Have used both commercial & homemade oil varnish blends and never had a build up of finish no mater how many coats applied. I have used mineral oil in place of BLO with great results.  

I prefer making my own wiping varnish using 50-50 mix varnish or poly & mineral spirits know 2 coats of that gives me the same a one coat of varnish or poly.   Same with oil varnish blend 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 resin, oil, & thinner.  Found less expensive to mix as needed and not end up throwing away half a can of commercial product. 

Would never use oil varnish blend on a pen, garden dipples, hand mirrows, or bowls that I make.  No problem with my table lamps.   For anything needing more durable finish prefer to use any film finish includeing lacqure, poly, shellac, & varnish. On bowls for food contain only use mineral oil (non-drying oil) every customer gets a bottle of mineral oil with their bowls.  Other bowls & hollow forms, etc get a film finish. 

I include CA as a film finish but no longer use it.  Used both oil and no oil procedure and liked both methods. 

I only by gloss film finishes because can agust the gloss & still keep a depth of sheen and no look & feel like plastic. It's called finishing the finish. 

Nice article by Bob Flexner. 

Oil Finishes: Their History and Use - Popular Woodworking Magazine


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## _Greg_ (Aug 19, 2016)

Thanks again guys, and these latest suggestions and formulas are  appreciated. I have some Pecan, Holly, Red and White Oak blanks that I am looking forward to trying them out on. I have picked up some Danish Oil, Polyurethane Gloss and Satin, as well as Mineral Spirits to add to these recipes to try this week. This will be a great learning tool for me. 


Greg


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## JoshuaFisher (Aug 21, 2016)

I think people dismiss true oil finish way to quickly on pens, to be quite honest a pure tung oil (not tung oil varnishes like formby's) finish on a pen is by far the most durable finish you will ever get on a pen. What people dont think about is there are multiple aspects that constitute durability, sure you have durability on the surface, like a film finish and in that aspect ca wins hands down it is one of the hardest finishes but that is not always a good thing, ca will wear like plastic because thats basically what it is, it will get scratched and if its a high gloss it will show scratches very easily and then what do you do? your left trying to take the pen apart hoping nothing breaks, you can only do very minor repairs on a ca finish, which brings me to my next point, repairability, how easy one can repair a finish is part of the overall durability of the pen, if you cant repair a finish thats damaged then its no longer very durable is it? with a pure tung oil you can buff a fresh coat into a pen using 0000 steel wool and it will blend scratches and work stains out, not to mention a matte or satin sheen appears to wear better than a gloss anyway, pure tung oil is also very water-proof when applied properly. If its good enough for flooring and boats then why wouldnt it hold up on a pen? Now someone mentioned open grain collecting dirt and thats true but there is a very simple fix for that, when you finish turning and start sanding a blank slow the lathe down to about 700-800 rpm and lets say you start with 220 grit paper, sand the blank for a second with the paper under the blank catching dust and then with a cloth under the sandpaper so you dont glue yourself to the blank, take thin ca glue while sanding and pour it over the blank and sand the glue into the pores after 5-10 seconds stop and apply accelerator and grab a fresh 220 grit paper and sand all the ca off except whats left in the pores, now sand through your normal grits and your ready for finish, I use abralon pads from 500-4000 and I buff the pure tung oil in with that and it gives a really nice matte/satin finish that feels like wood not plastic, I have several pens finished this way that I carry for daily use in a pocket and they still look great, and if needed I can repair the pen without any hassle by putting on a fresh coat. Now the whole point of this isnt to dismiss a ca finish as it is a very nice looking finish and very durable, but when someone asks a question about a certain finish do some research and answer what they wanted to know with facts before dismissing what flat work wood workers have been doing for generations long before ca was around. For anyone interested the Real Milk Paint Co. makes a very good pure tung oil mixed half and half with citrus solvent that works very well, personally I like there dark tung oil half and half as it adds more color. No finish is permanent and anyone thinking that a good fine pen shouldnt need maintenance is fooling themselves, all of the best things in life need maintenance, and the things that dont need maintenance are things that are thrown away.


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## jttheclockman (Aug 21, 2016)

Hello Joshua. Welcome to the site. You make good points and this is one reason that I mentioned Danish oil as a top coat finish by itself. As you mentioned though all finishes may need touch up or maintenance. The problem comes is we as sellers may never see the pen again. How people take care of their hand made items is up to them even though you may stress how they should be treated. Everyone will treat them differently so there is no absolute best finish. But we continue to search for it, that is for sure.

Good luck and glad you jumped in.


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## leehljp (Aug 21, 2016)

JoshuaFisher said:


> , ca will wear like plastic because thats basically what it is, it will get scratched and if its a high gloss it will show scratches very easily and then what do you do? your left trying to take the pen apart hoping nothing breaks, you can only do very minor repairs on a ca finish, which brings me to my next point, repairability, how easy one can repair a finish is part of the overall durability of the pen, if you cant repair a finish thats damaged then its no longer very durable is it?



1. When you put CA on par with tung oil as durability, you are dismissing the parts that make apples - apples and oranges - oranges, in this case TIME. CA will scratch and tung oil finished pens will get grime. TIME: CA - 2 to 8 years; Tung oil finish 3 months to 1 year. I have a pen that I made in 2008 and it barely has scratches. 

2. The idea that taking pens apart to re-finish them subjects them to greater opportunity for damage, then that purely is a statement of inexperience. I haven't taken but two or three apart since I have been back from Japan, and over there I guess I took 20 or 30 apart over the last 5 years there, I didn't damage a single one that I can remember from taking it apart. 


3. The finest finish that I have seen here (and overseas) are the Urushi finishes. They scratch too, but I honestly would prefer an clear urushi finish which is difficult over anything. For most wood, I prefer tung oil hands down. I can read "tung oil" in a couple of asian languages too. REAL tung oil. So I am not biased against tung oil. The deal is that USAGE and PURPOSE should drive the selection. redface: Before I learned what the word for tung oil was in Japanese, or the kanji for it, - pre-9-11, I carried a gallon of pure tung oil back to Japan in my luggage. Pure Tung oil in Japanese is referred to and written as China tree oil. No one over there knew what "tung oil" was, not even in their dictionaries.) 

On a woodworking forum back in 2004/2005, one fellow from Australia and I agreed that TO was the best water proofing finish out there (flat work). Others called us to task. He did an experiment. He put two towels in two buckets. He soaked one in pure tung oil, the other in the other finish that others were espousing. He then hung both over a clothes line and let them harden for about 10 days. Then he put them in a wash tub of water for a week. The tung oil towel was the same shape as it came off the clothes line and was still stiff. The other was a soggy whitish blob.
TUNG OIL IS GOOD/GREAT for what it does. No dispute on that from me.

But it isn't the best in all situations or most situations on pens for most people, nor is it what the general public wants (including LOML.) 



4. Most oils/liquids (except for purely clear) will change the color/tint/hue on woods, and on some you do NOT WANT this. On some woods, you want protection. Tung oil finished holly will lead to an ivory as well as grime show in about 3 months. But not on a CA. Some finishes will cause some woods to "bleed", which will ruin the pen if those are done in segments. 




> . . .and lets say you start with 220 grit paper, sand the blank for a second with the paper under the blank catching dust and then with a cloth under the sandpaper so you dont glue yourself to the blank, take thin ca glue while sanding and pour it over the blank and sand the glue into the pores after 5-10 seconds stop and apply accelerator and grab a fresh 220 grit paper and sand all the ca off except whats left in the pores, now sand through your normal grits and your ready for finish, . . .



Why would you sand all the ca off? If one just want to fill the pores, yes there are other finishes that do that well also. But Sand the CA off? Why? Sand down to sizing by measuring with calipers. I use abralon for rough finish and to a decent smooth finish, but micromesh to 12000. Abralon's advantage is that it lets the dust out. I also have sandpaper that goes to .5micron. 4000 Abralon is the same as 3 micron. I don't sand the CA off, and most people here don't either. I did sand the CA back to a non-shine finish as noted in the link below. But CA's primary purpose is not just to seal pores, but to "finish" the pen. Shine is a personal preference for many. In addition, CA will protect more than you are giving it credit for. But even that may be a technique issue.

As far as using accelerator and "catching dust" and "gluing yourself to a blank" that is a matter of " proper technique and experience" (not enough).

Non plastic feel - Read Russ's comments about 4 or 5 down about tactile feel:
http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=32496&highlight=shine 

A truth: Going back to almost the beginning of this forum, you can find the arguments put forth on this thread, but you cannot dismiss one fact: If you want to sell, you better have a shiny finish. Put a dozen sheen or flat finished pens beside a dozen shiny, the public will buy the shiny ones. This kinda reminds me of the "cupcake wars". A polished pastry chef felt it was beneath his dignity to make cup cakes. But it was the sales of cup cakes that made the money so he could make fancy pastries on the side.

A true connoisseur will clean and care for his pen; a normal daily user will not. For me, it is not which finish is mine, but which finish does the end user want and can I provide it? Most users don't know, and will complain of the grime in 3 to 4 months versus scratches in two to eight years. Believe me, I like the connoisseur approach because these guys (and gals) will pay a pretty penny AND take care of their pens.

Bottom Line: 
Tung oil is not the best, neither is CA, neither are different forms of lacquer. It is what the user wants, the maker wants, the needs, and the perceptions. And there is no "one" answer.


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## Sappheiros (Aug 21, 2016)

I've enjoyed following this thread and hearing everyone's opinions and professional experience through years of turning. I found an article in the various wood finished out there and I found it a good read. Like each poster here, take it with a grain of salt but give it a read!
http://www.finewoodworking.com/toolguide/articles/selecting-a-finish.aspx


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## JoshuaFisher (Aug 21, 2016)

Hank im not sure if maybe i didnt explain clearly about the ca's role in my process of finishing a pen with tung oil, I was not suggesting using the ca as a finish, Ive made many pens with a straight ca finish and many with a tung oil and personally I like the feel of tung oil and some of the materials I work with the tung oil lets the woods natural smell come through once the oil dries which alot of my customers like. but back to the first point, when Im finishing say a oak pen with tung oil I start by sanding thin ca into the pores to fill the grain, I then sand off all the ca that isnt in the grain so it will accept the tung oil, this does two things, one it fills the grain which stops grime from building up, any grime you get on the surface can be wiped off easily when tung oil is applied properly its what normally gets in the grain that doesnt come out which is what you are fixing with the thin ca, you are preventing grime from being able to get in the grain. the second thing that sanding the ca in does is it gets the ca below the surface which can stabilize a blank and I think improves the water resistant qualities of tung oil. You could use a number of products to fill the grain the same qay but ca is by far the quickest, also try sanding in thin ca glue to a blank by pouring the ca on the blank while snding and youll soon realise why you need the cloth under the sand paper its not a matter of experience its just the nature of that method of filling the grain. Im not sure if you thought I was describing how I do a ca finish (I wasnt) but I was talking about something else entirely, Also as far as not giving ca durability enough credit, I did say it was the hardest top coat you could use but that can be a downside at times, Imagine taking a knife and running it across a laminate counter, its a very hard surface but what happens? it scratches and it is noticeable, now take the same knife and run it across a piece of rubber, it still scratches it but not as much and it isnt as noticeable and that beccause the rubber is softer and more flexible, that very reason is why polyurethanes are used for floors and not lacquer, lacquer is the harder of the two finishes there is not doubt about that (thats one reason lacquer buffs better) but poly is more flexible and rubbery so it does better with abrasion. Something else to consider but when I carry around one of my pens finished with ca and polished to a mirror shine I am much more careful and reluctant to use the pen in a work environment (my shop for example) so yes I could have a pen 10 years old finish with ca but barely used other than special occasions that wouldnt be scratched up, try finishing a pen with ca and actually abuse the pen like you would if it were finish with oil to prove a point and you may be surprised. That all said ca is a wonderful finish but so is tung oil just from a different point of view. Also I sell quite a few pens, its a small business for me and it is easier to tell a client to clean the pen off with a soft cloth if it does collect some grime then have them send me a en back to fix scratches in a ca finish, again thats my personal preference and so far its worked for me, also shinny verses satin does not matter as much as how well you pitch your pen, I have sold a few hundred pens and have sold probably half and half shinny verses not, you just have to know the finish well enough to be able to give a pitch to get the customer excited about the pen regardless of sheen. These are just my opinions and I welcome your comments so please dont take my comments the wrong way. I hope you have a great day


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## jttheclockman (Aug 21, 2016)

Just add it to the list of ways to finish a pen. Josh you found a system that works for you so good luck with it.


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