# Dying Lighter Colored Veneer Black Experiment



## W.Y. (Jun 18, 2010)

Not sure if this is the right board to post this in this site. If not, perhaps one of the mods will be so kind as to re-direct it to the most appropriate one. 


I put this topic on the Segmented Turning board of my own  Woodworking Friends  site because  black as well as white and colored veneers are used extensively  in making segmented bowls and vessels.
I decided to share it here as well for the benefit of anyone that might be interested because wood  veneer is also used by some in pen making and for some it is favored over using colored plastic veneers. 



I have gathered various sources of information on how to dye veneer black so decided to try this particular method. 
Why ?  because it doesn't cost much and uses ingredients  readily available . .
Apparently darker wood like walnut  and oak   with its tannin  content  works better in combination with the steel wool and vinegar solution so we will see how this goes with cherry and birch. These are  the only two species of veneer I had to work with .

Here are the ingredients to start with.







To one quart of cider vinegar add one pad of steel wool . First wash the steel wool in warm soapy water because it contains oils to prevent rusting. . Rinse and dry either in the sun or in a  regular warm oven on an aluminum pie plate. DO NOT use microwave oven for this. If rust forms  when drying in the sun , it is not a problem. 

Here is the steel wool in the vinegar right at the start. It should be left like that for several days or even weeks. Extra time will not matter. 






Steel wool totally dissolved in one week.






Four pieces of veneer cut .  two cherry and two birch.






Soaking in solution with paper towel on bottom and between each piece and on top. 






Covered with lid and waiting for complete saturation. 







After one day soak  I removed veneer from liquid and put it between two pieces of plywood with a sheet of paper towel above and below  and between every piece  of veneer.   Clamped it down tight and set aside to dry. 






After a couple days of being clamped between plywood and layers  of paper towel , here is the result . 






.

I was curious to see if the dye was only on the surface or all the way through  so I cut a corner off and took a photo of the edge. Although it was difficult to get a good edge photo, it is apparent that the dye did go all the way through . 






Conclusion.
Apparently  woods  with tannin content  respond  best to this  method . The birch veneer obviously has low tannin content so didn't  go black like the cherry veneer did under the same circumstances.  . Walnut veneer  is apparently a better choice  than cherry but I did not have any to try.
It has been said that strong tea added to the vinegar and steel wool helps some because of its strong tannin content  but I did not try that . I probably will the next time.  

Next experiment whenever I get time will be with Rit dyes  with DNA to get more  colors of pieces than plain black. 

Have never tried aniline dyes but they are supposed to be very good. Just don't want  to tie up the money of having to buy them on line  and pay S/H etc. until I hear and see  proof that it is the best way to go.  .

Sure, I know colored veneer is available  on line  but I enjoy doing stuff like this myself if it is at all practical .  It is the price per square  foot  of pre-made ones verses  shop made ones that must be figured in.


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## nava1uni (Jun 20, 2010)

Thanks for the dying inservice, very informative.  I like the idea of Rit dyes.  I use liquid watercolors for dying light colored wood for pens.  I wonder if mixing it with DNA would have the same effect on veneer?  The veneer looks real good.


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## Pioneerpens (Jun 20, 2010)

Thanks for the information...


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## W.Y. (Jun 21, 2010)

nava1uni said:


> Thanks for the dying inservice, very informative.  I like the idea of Rit dyes.  I use liquid watercolors for dying light colored wood for pens.  I wonder if mixing it with DNA would have the same effect on veneer?  The veneer looks real good.



My next experiment on dying will be with the Rit dyes because they are inexpensive and readily available . I need some dark green and dark red and a few other colors.   I have heard of some that use water with it and don't suffer grain raising or warping while others say  DNA is best used with it.
It might have something to do with the wood the veneers  are made from.
I would think the  best way to find out is to try sample pieces with  both ways first.
For darker colors  the Rit dye apparently has to mixed a LOT stronger than when used for dying clothing so that too will have to be experimented with.
I am in the middle of making segmented vessels  now so if anyone tries the Rit dyes before I get a chance to , please post the results in this thread if possible.


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## jttheclockman (Jun 21, 2010)

William O Young said:


> My next experiment on dying will be with the Rit dyes because they are inexpensive and readily available . I need some dark green and dark red and a few other colors. I have heard of some that use water with it and don't suffer grain raising or warping while others say DNA is best used with it.
> It might have something to do with the wood the veneers are made from.
> I would think the best way to find out is to try sample pieces with both ways first.
> For darker colors the Rit dye apparently has to mixed a LOT stronger than when used for dying clothing so that too will have to be experimented with.
> I am in the middle of making segmented vessels now so if anyone tries the Rit dyes before I get a chance to , please post the results in this thread if possible.


 


I have used rit dyes with DNA before and the thing I noticed that the DNA will only accept so much dye so you really can't control the color but you have soooooooo many colors to choose from. There is a color chart on their site and you can buy these colors from their site because not all colors are sold in the same place. Just too many to carry. The way to control the color of the wood is to use sparingly. You will find that the granules will just lay on the bottom of the jar. One other thing don't bother with baby food jars, they do not reseal well as I found out. Maybe if you put sarran wrap on the top but never tried that.   One other thing rit dyes come in liquid form also which you probably already know. 

I have found also that the professional alchol dyes penetrate the deepest and again tough to control colors. But if you are looking to just soak a piece of veneer and accept whatever color comes out then that is the way to go.


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## fernhills (Jun 26, 2010)

I have used Aniline dyes and found that water is the way to go for color brilliance. All you do is put a small amount of the powder dye in hot water, mix a little bit, then let cool. You can make up your colors by the amounts of powder and mixing different colors. Just use brown paper bag to knock down the raised grain. I got about 6 colors from CSUSA about 10 years ago, still have a lot.


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## W.Y. (Jun 26, 2010)

fernhills said:


> I have used Aniline dyes and found that water is the way to go for color brilliance. All you do is put a small amount of the powder dye in hot water, mix a little bit, then let cool. You can make up your colors by the amounts of powder and mixing different colors. Just use brown paper bag to knock down the raised grain. I got about 6 colors from CSUSA about 10 years ago, still have a lot.


.

Thanks a bunch Carl for your help and experience and source of the product. 
 I will get  some on my very  next order from  CSUSA.

Seems like an easy way to go about it.


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