# What's wrong with these picture?



## Ron Mc

Here are some pictures of a recent pen I turned that is an amazing pen.


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## wdcav1952

Ron,

I don't know if this is a quiz or not. [?]  The only thing I can see is that the cap on the second shot appears to be rectangular rather than round.  On further reflection, there is a difference from "stock" with the postable tip.

Do I win anything?  []


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## Ron Mc

Will,
No it's not a test.[]
I have received a comment in the show of your pens area and am just testing the waters in regards to my pictures. I personally don't see a problem with them but you know how it is.
[]
Now as far as a prize? Shall I send you some postable JS1 tips that are postable?


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## Snazzypens

Ron how did you get no background
Toni


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## Ron Mc

These pictures are taken outside and the pens are sitting on a piece of printer paper. That's it, very simple. In my part of the world the pictures should be taken between 12:30 and 1:30.

William....How do you take your pictures?([][])


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## wdcav1952

> _Originally posted by Ron Mc_
> <br />Will,
> No it's not a test.[]
> I have received a comment in the show of your pens area and am just testing the waters in regards to my pictures. I personally don't see a problem with them but you know how it is.
> []
> Now as far as a prize? Shall I send you some postable JS1 tips that are postable?



Dang, further proof that I never win anything! [8]  Since I don't know what postable JS1 tips are, I'm scared to answer! You might be [}] rather than []  

[][][]


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## TellicoTurning

Ron,
Don't know if you are looking for more comments, but I like the way they are done.
Personally, I prefer pen pictures with no background so there is nothing to detract from the pens... while I don't like snakes, I like this pen and the photography.

I use a light blue background so as to minimize the background in all of my photos.


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## Ron Mc

Chuck,
I am always looking for comments. This is the only way that I will improve both pens and pictures.
If I may say so...This picture in your album is fantastic!
http://www.penturners.org/oldalbums/ozmandus/CG-WS-BOXB%20CIGAR%20PEN.JPG


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## ashaw

Ron
I see nothing wrong with your photos.  
Like you all of my pens are taken outside since right now I do not have a photo tent.  Normally I trying to take them at dawn or at evening when I do not have direct sunlight for shadows but that my preference.

Alan


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## airrat

To me Ron when its posted the color looks even throughout.   When you have the cap casting a shadow it makes the cap seem darker then the bottom.  However, on the flip side, the colors seem richer in the second picture.   So guess I am no help. [8)]


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## rpasto92

Ron, I'll give you some constructive critisism.  The pictures appear to be over exposed or something.  I was thinging that the contrast was too high but then I read that you did nothing to the pictures to remove the background so I don't think that could be it.  Does your camera have a setting to modify the exposure time?


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## Fangar

Ron,

I am a fan of your work for sure.  If you are looking for constructive critcism reagarding the photos, I must say that the photos don't work for me.  They appear to be over exposed, have contrast issues and really don't showcase the work you put into this lovely pen.  The contrast issues are most seen at the extremes of the kit near the ends. Note how the hot spots in the caps and screw ends get lost into the white background.  This is usually a sign of too much direct light in the wrong spots.  The top photo appears to have a smokey unclarity to it.  The bottom is over sharpened.  Note the grain-i-ness to the shadows.  

I try to shoot in a more controlled environment.  I am guessing these were taken outside.  If not, too much light was used. Anyway, none of this is meant other than as constructive cristicism for us to learn by.

Thanks for sharing,

Fangar


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## Randy_

Ron:  I think this a very personal thing and if you like the result, go ahead and use the technique.  The pictures are a little "stark"(high contrast) for me and I would prefer to see a light neutral background rather than the white.(light gray, tan, blue)  I also think you would get a better rendition of the hardware using multiple source filtered light or indirect lighting.  Take a critical look at the pen pictures in some pen catalogs or magazines and find a look that you like and experiment until you have achieved it.  (Sort of like making a pen??[])


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## rpasto92

Sorry Fangar, I was 42 seconds faster than you on the exposure/contrast comments[][]


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## bradh

I think the picture exposure is very good. I think what we are reacting to is the harsh dark shadow that is beside the pen.
  A second light or even a reflector will tone down the shadow. A reflector can be a simple as a second sheet of white paper on the dark side aligned to bounce light from the main light source back into the shadow area.
Hope this helps,
Brad


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## Penmonkey

They are sady washed out. []


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## DCBluesman

Ron - I'm a reasonably poor photographer, but the improvements I've made have been by talking to one or two of the professional or semi-professional photographers on the site.  One, in particular, was gracious enough to let me send the raw files to him for an in-depth analysis and suggestions for improvements.  My photos have gotten better (still not great, but better) due to the fact that the raw information gives the trained photographer all of the information needed to "read" how the photograph was taken...you know, all of that "focal length", "f-stop" kind of stuff.  Personally, I think your photos are pretty good...I just offer the suggestion in case you want to tweak something.


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## gerryr

Ron,
I agree with Ryan and Fangar.  I would guess that your photos are as much as 2 stops over-exposed.  Over-exposure and under-exposure both can alter the colors in the photos.  The single best way to get the correct exposure is by using a gray card.  They're available from B & H Photo and depending on where you live you might be able to find a "real" camera shop that has them.  Personally, and as a former professional photographer, I would not photographs outside at noon.  When photographing things like this, you need to control the lighting, whether it's natural or artificial.  Building a tent and using artificial light is actually the easiest and most consistent way to photograph something like pens.  If you want more information about using a gray card, I know I posted it here at least once or send me an email.


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## ctEaglesc

NOte the clarity and definition of another pen posted on SOYP.
I selected this at random.
It is NOT my work but that of a recently rgeistered  member
It actually looks like a photograph of a pen.The "borders of the pen are clean and crisp with definition.You can see the actual edges of the pen.

In the picture I can see with clarity great detail.



I am not a photographerbut I do know when I present a pen to be seen on this forum I want to show as much clarity and definition as I can.
How could anyone comment on the fit and finish if you cannot determine where the pen ends and the background starts?
Your fittings are "outlined"in white or grey. I am not saying in any way you intentionally put them there but that is what I see on my monitor.

Your pictures have an "artsy appearance" that some may appreciate but certainly not a realistisc one as presented in the picture I posted above.

That is something I do not see in your posted picture


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## Ron Mc

Thank-You for all of the very constructive comments! Pen photography has been a big problem for me from the start and I am constantly trying to work it out with what I have available to me.
I agree that it his hard to tell where the pen starts and stops in the picture. Especially at both ends. Especially at both ends. I believe this is due to the reflection of the son on the hardware that makes it appear white like the background.
Once again, Thanks!


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## Rudy Vey

Ron,
your photos look very often too overexposed (see what Fangar said).
I would recommend two things:
1. don't use white printer paper as a background, use something more neutral like a light grey or light blue
2. don't take your pictures in the direct sunlight outside (too much contrast!!, see the hard shadows you get) try to take them at a day with overcast sky or use some kind of diffusors like a thin, white cloth.

I like to take my pictures outside as well, I copy a link to my pictures. Some were taken outside with overcast sky and the background is a old garden table made from Cypress or Mahogany and has a natural grey tone or inside in a light tent made from an old lamp shade and posterboard as a background:

http://www.penturners.org/forum/photo_album_view.asp?cname=Main+Album&mid=97&cid=103


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## Daniel

Outside in full sun. that is how you end up with the washed out over exposed look. How did you come up with the 12:30 to 1:30 time frame? for landscapes early morning or late afternoon light is usually prefered. I like early morning for pens and you still need the light broken up so a cloudy day works real good.
I wouldn't claim that anything you did was wrong though. but there are definite reasons you got the look you did. harsh light gives you the hot spots, strong, flat deminsion and  fadded contrast of this picture. noon day sun is not good for color either. stepping down the exposure would only result in loosing details in the snake skin. 
the picture over all has an eye catching effect though.
If you don't see anything wrong with the picture then there is nothing wrong with it. ever seen a picture of someone with lighting real strong on only one side. it leaves half the face lit and the other half in realy dark shadow. and it's not done by mistake.


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## Ron Mc

I came up with 12:30-1:30 because this is when the sun is just about overhead which provides less shadow.
I will be trying an evening shoot to see if the washed out look goes away.


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## Rifleman1776

Is this a trick question? [] Actually, both pen and picture look good. The photo could be improved upon using suggestions already posted. Mainly, try to get your background about the same shade (not necessarily same color) as the subject pen. Most of my pictures are taken outside in shade to avoid glare. That is a 90% successful, quick and easy technique. I bought about a dozen felt squares from the crafts department at Wal-Mart in a variety of colors for background. Very cheap, I think 39 cents each. I sometimes use a tripod but my new camera has a stabilization feature and with sufficient light I get sharp pictures. Inside, I always use the tripod.


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## Daniel

Ron,
If you are one of those that are cursed with few cloudy days to work with. try getting one of the plastic sheet defusers that go in florecent light fixtures. position it so that the sunlight that falls on the pen passes through it first. I think that will help the washed out look more than anything. early morning and late evening help with color as well. morning light has lots of blue in it, evening lots of red.
place some sort of refective material on tha shadow side of the pen to help bounce some light back at the pen from that side. this helps weaken the shadow. even white paper helps. tin foil is usually to much. you can even add an artificial light from that side and really knock down the shadow. remember you do want some shadow though.
as far as sun. think of a photo as a picture that was painted using light. the source of your light determins what colors you have on your paint pallet. even sun light has different colors at different times of the day. artifical lights of verious types have different colors to them. sunlight has all of them and then some that we can't see and film or cameras are designed with sunlight as the standard light that will be used. they have to have something to center all the settings around so they use sunlight as the standard. that is why it is much easier to get a well exposed picture outdoors. anyway morning light will inhance the blue end of the color spectrum and evening will inhance the red end of the spectrum. try both it will be a learning experience.


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## kiddo

May I ask, did you use Microsoft picture manager to edit this? The Edit-Picture--&gt;Color--&gt;Enhance-Color tool? Maybe two passes?

If this guess is true, try using the sliders instead. It may not make the background quite as clean, but it will not make such hard edges on the shadows and blend the reflections into the background so pieces look like they missing (like on the final).

If you use different tool, sorry, I shut up.

But lovely pen.


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## bob393

Ron, I love the pen.
Photography is a highly personal thing and realy anything goes. 
However for what it's worth, in my opinion, and all that,
You are about, oh I'll guess two stops over exposed and the high noon sun is so harsh that the contrast is off the scale. I bet if you look at the histogram on that picture the exposure is packed on one side of the scale. Single source lighting is problematic at best and with it I don't think, without reflectors anyway, that you can get rid of the harsh shadows.

Since I hate criticism without sugestion I would shoot in the shade with a reflector to fill in hte shadows and bracket the exposure, heavy on the underexposed side. 
Most things look better about a half stop underexposed.


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