# Golden Mean?



## DCBluesman (Apr 19, 2006)

You've seen this one before.  There is no optical illusion.  The picture is taken head on.  The Golden Mean (which I don't believe has any value in pen making) has been used twice here.  First, the lower barrel is 1.618 times the length of the upper barrel.  Second, the width of the base is 1.618 times the width of the cap.  This was turned with the aid of one of the new Baron chucks from Arizona Silhouette (thanks Bill!).







Thanks to all who look and particularly to those who take the time and effort to comment.

NOTE: 1.618 is approximate, but pretty darned close.  Also, here's the wiki for the Golden Ratio or Golden Mean http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ratio


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## jthompson1995 (Apr 19, 2006)

This is a case of personal taste, but thae bottom looks way too big to me.  I like the choice of woot and kit finish, the fit is good, and the finish looks real nice.  I wouldn't buy it, though.

Jason T.


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## Huzzah (Apr 19, 2006)

Overall I love the wood ,finish, and craftsmanship, but I have to agree that the Golden Mean doesn't work for pens.  My personal opinion is that the pen is too long and is bottom heavy.  

Again, this is just my personal opinion and if you like it that's all that matters.  BTW - Do you like it, the proportions?


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## Skye (Apr 19, 2006)

What exactly does the Golden Mean.... um... mean? Been outa school for a long time.

I like it a lot, I assume it'll stand on end?

My only critique would be the cap and body's grains dont match. Not that they have to, but I like it when they do.

Speaking of the finishing looking real nice as JT said, may I ask what you finished it with? []


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## gerryr (Apr 19, 2006)

There was an article in PenWorld about the revival of Tibaldi that talked about this although it was called something else, "divine proportion" or something similar, but it still referenced the 1.618 ratio.

Obviously the fit and finish are superb and the wood is enough to make me drool.  I'm having trouble visualizing it without the "bell-bottom" end and I can't.  But, to me, it looks too long and unfortunately reminds me of bell-bottom pants from the 70's.  My personal Baron FP, by sheer luck, has a very similar proportion and I've decided it's too long also.


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## DCBluesman (Apr 19, 2006)

Jason - Exactly the kind of comment I was hoping to draw.  The golden ratio or golden mean is thought to represent a balance in nature between symmetry and asymmetry.  Some folks think it's a proportion that represents people's perception of beauty.  I think they're full of malarkey. 

Steve - in the pen's defense, unposted it feels better in the hand...a nice, full-length.  Do I like it?  Not really.  Will I make more?  Only if someone asks.  I just love to experiment with weird stuff.

Skye - Yes, then pen stands on the end...probably the best feature of the pen. The wood is from one piece and I still can't figure out why the coloring and grain changed, but I cut it at the pattern change!  (It may have something to do with the diameter of the two pieces.)  The finish is sanding sealer followed with TSW.  It will get another coat of two of TSW before I consider it finished.


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## EdwinSSIV (Apr 19, 2006)

I love that wood.  The pen is very nice...but I dod not think I would buy it.


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## alamocdc (Apr 19, 2006)

Lou, while I was chastised by a few professional furniture makers (one was Mark Adams) for violating this with the nightstands I built a few years ago, I suppose it does have it's place. I actually like the use of it here and may just borrow the idea. The only thing I would have done differently is made the cap closed end and clipless. It's too big to stick in your pocket, but will stand nicely on a desk. Because of that, I think a clipless closed ended cap would have really set this off. Plus it would draw more attention to the exquisite grain of the wood. [^]


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## Skye (Apr 19, 2006)

Lol, good point. It is sorta like a trike with a kickstand. []


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## ashaw (Apr 19, 2006)

Lou
Get this issue of Pen World.  There is a Pen Divine Ratio Made by Visoci(sp)reviewed.

Alan


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## alamocdc (Apr 19, 2006)

Okay, just call me a mushroom (in the dark and covered with...), Alan. Care to share? []


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## wayneis (Apr 19, 2006)

Well Lou, I guess that I am once again in the minority because I like what you have done.  I agree with Billy that it would look better without the clip and cap though.  It stands to reason that I would like this because I also like the Panache and this looks kind of like that.

Wayne


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## RussFairfield (Apr 19, 2006)

Besides good proportions, we also have to consider weight, balance, and confort in writing with the pen.

When I first started playing around with closed end pens, I looked at the "Golden Proportions" but they immediately got me into trouble. I ended up with a pen that was too long to be practical. 

The problem is that some pens have a longer grip area between the cap threads and the tip than others. That means they have a longer cap than others. Making the pen barrel 1.618 times the cap length might make a pen that looks better with the cap in place, but it ends up being too long to fit into a shirt pocket. There is a reason for the traditional; pen being 5.5" long from under the clip to the other end of the pen with the cap in place. Sometimes we have to make a choice between being practical and being beautiful.

The other problem is that the closed end pen has to be comfortable and balanced without the cap being posted. Without the metal posting fitting on the end, the pen can end up with too much weight at the tip. Stabilized wood, smaller holes inside, and a larger diameter can provide the extra weight needed to balance the pen for writing. That "hour glass" shape that I use has the benefit of being a nicely balanced pen as either a fountain or rollerball.

On the pen in the photo - I like the pen and I like the cap, but to me they don't go together. The two different shapes are in conflict with each other, and that has nothing to do with their diameter.  To me, this would be a beautiful pen if the cap followed through with the same form as the pen. Maybe even with the same little beads at the end. The cap in the photo would just look better on a more traditional pen with a similar form.

The coloring is spectacular, and your finish looks to be perfect. Both halves of the pen are exquisite. They are just not exquisite together. My opinion.


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## mick (Apr 19, 2006)

Man, it's amazing what you can learn here. I was just reading a new book last night that dealt with the Golden mean, or PHI. I was amazed and now I log on and here it is again! I had no idea that the ratio 1.618 applied to so many things in nature as well as being a basis that so many the "Old Masters" used in their artwork.
 It is odd though, according to the book I am reading, our bodies follow the golden mean proportion-wise. So wouldn't it seem that a pen designed that way would "fit " that same body?


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## jdavis (Apr 19, 2006)

very nice job


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## Rudy Vey (Apr 19, 2006)

Lou, I like it! But I do not like the clip/end finial of it. I think without it it would look better. For the PITH I made an El Grande both side closed ends, and it looks similar to yours (the pen side of it).


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## wdcav1952 (Apr 19, 2006)

Count me in with the guys who say clipless for this pen.  Very interesting concept pen.  I only wish I could push the limits of design, but my brain is rather B2B I'm afraid!


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## micah (Apr 19, 2006)

Lou,
I'm with the Minority as well. I really like it. In fact, I made one that looks a LOT like it a little while back.



I do agree the clipless closed end would look better with it, as well as maybe another type of wood. In fact I think I may have to steal...ooppss, I mean borrow that idea!
Nice job!
Micah


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## jssmith3 (Apr 19, 2006)

Hey Lou, I think you have done a fabulous job again with snakewood.  
Love it.
Janet


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## DCBluesman (Apr 19, 2006)

Thanks, again, for the nice comments.  For those who suggested it would have looked better capless and with no clip--I agree!  Maybe next time.  By the way, there are no brass tubes in this one.  Everything's glued in, so knocking it apart is not an option.

Wayne, Rudy and Micah - thanks for the encouragement. 

Russ - You're spot on about balance.  There is a lot of extra wood on the lower barrel, since I only had to accomodate the fountain pen pump.  It's drilled only as wide and deep as I had to. Also, the upper barrel really should have been B2B at least.  Clipless?  Undoubtedly.  All of that being said, thank you for the comment about the finish.  You know that you and Dresdner (in that order) are my "heroes of finishing" so that means a lot!

The feedback and opinions from you folks will help a lot with my next idea!


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## Johnathan (Apr 20, 2006)

Great looking pen, a little big on the end for me but wonderful look!


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## ashaw (Apr 20, 2006)

Lou
By the way great looking pen.  Lou just check out this issue of pen world.  I will not do the article justice trying to explan it.


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## DCBluesman (Apr 20, 2006)

Thanks, Alan!  Will do. [8D]


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## DCBluesman (Apr 22, 2006)

The February/March issue of PenWorld also has an excellent article on _Tibaldi_ and their use of the the golden mean or divine proportion in their new pens.  It's definitely worth a read!


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## Rifleman1776 (Apr 22, 2006)

> _Originally posted by DCBluesman_
> <br />Jason - Exactly the kind of comment I was hoping to draw.  The golden ratio or golden mean is thought to represent a balance in nature between symmetry and asymmetry.  Some folks think it's a proportion that represents people's perception of beauty.  I think they're full of malarkey.
> 
> Steve - in the pen's defense, unposted it feels better in the hand...a nice, full-length.  Do I like it?  Not really.  Will I make more?  Only if someone asks.  I just love to experiment with weird stuff.
> ...



   As to your pen, the shape isn't to my personal liking. The flat bottom, appearance-wise, looks strange. But to stand up, it must be flat. Who stands their pens up? []
   As for the Golden Mean and "malarkey", a couple members of my woodturning club, who are masters at bowls and vases, claim the Mean is almost an absolute in making great bowls and vases. Their stuff sells for upwards of $3000.00 per. And they claim those made with the Mean rule sell best, fastest and for the most money. Can't argue with that.
  Another member who makes tops says the best spinners are made according to the Mean also.
  As a (former) professional photographer, I was taught to compose a picture following a similar forumla. I hadn't heard of the Golden Mean but the principal was pretty much identical.
  For whatever that's worth. []


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## jeff (Apr 22, 2006)

I've been interested in the Golden Ratio for years, but from a scientific rather than asthetics point of view. (Started in college when I wrote a paper on improving the performance of search algorithms using golden section division rather than halving or other means. I know, a real snoozer...) Anyway, it's hard to read anything about it without touching on the asthetics, which are fascinating as well. I read somewhere that if you average the ratios a huge number of "rectangular-ish things" man-made or biological, the average is extremely close to the ratio. 

Here's an interesting article on the asthetics...
http://plus.maths.org/issue22/features/golden/


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## btboone (Apr 22, 2006)

Back in the early days B.C., (before computers) I worked on some Rubik's Cube type puzzles.  One of those was a dodecahedron (a 12 sided shape consisting of pentagons on each face.)  I was amazed to learn of all the golden ratios hidden in the dimensions.  Even included angles of the solid were divisible by phi.  I stumbled upon this on my own without having read about that first.  It was a little freaky to find it everywhere.


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## mick (Apr 26, 2006)

Fibonacci would love it!!

I'm actually forwarding this thread to my daughter, who teaches Geometry in high school.  Am working on a Fibonnaci spiral & Golden Mean bulletin board idea for the start of school in the fall.  

Me? I stink at math. LOL But I gave birth to two math wizards-- so I KNOW they'd appreciate the pen!



(connie and not mike lol)


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## dfurlano (Apr 27, 2006)

Somehow I posted this in the wrong topic [)]

This Visconti was in this months Pen World:

http://www.airlineintl.com/visconti/visconti_divine.htm


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