# Flaming Brass Dragon



## workinforwood (Nov 5, 2011)

This is my dragon cut in Brass along with my new 360 metal flame design I conjured up.  It's cast in PR with silver eye shadow.  I was actually going to make a kitless pen with it, but botched the thread caps :redface:...and there was not much I could do to repair that so I just sliced the scrap ends off and used it with the JR II kit that it was designed for anyhow. Bit of a bugger to photograph as the dragon wraps half the pen and the flames go all the way around, and I'm already photo challenged as it is.

Dragon assembled view






Flip assembled view with Dragon wing





Playing with some more angles


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## alphageek (Nov 5, 2011)

Beautiful Jeff.    ( and with kit Components!   Thought those weren't allowed in your shop any more. :biggrin: )


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## SCR0LL3R (Nov 5, 2011)

That's awesome!


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## Crickett (Nov 5, 2011)

I love it!!  Absolutely stunning!


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## nsfr1206 (Nov 5, 2011)

I don't believe that one will last long at a sale. Really nice!


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## 3Peake (Nov 5, 2011)

that's awesome.


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## Dalecamino (Nov 5, 2011)

That is really slick Jeff. Great recovery.


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## Whaler (Nov 5, 2011)

Beautiful, Jeff.


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## workinforwood (Nov 5, 2011)

Yea..I have a few kits laying around I use for measuring. There is nothing at all wrong with kit pens, I just like to add more personal touch when I can, and this time that just wasn't working out. Not all kitless pens are a success.  The dragon and flames requires about an hr of drilling, and 25 hrs of machine time, around 350,000 lines of code.


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## btboone (Nov 5, 2011)

Nicely done!  That's a lot of machine time.  How did you keep it all together when machining the thin parts?


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## Constant Laubscher (Nov 5, 2011)

Jeff, great job. Worth the time you have put into it.


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## Buzzzz4 (Nov 5, 2011)

Very cool. Love the design. Fantastic work on it.


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## bitshird (Nov 5, 2011)

Looking great Jeff, HoWwlong was your run cycle?? Also is the brass that is showing the actual body of the pen, or are the like appliqued on to tubes then the tubes cast in the resin??


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## Curly (Nov 5, 2011)

It is a really neat looking pen. 

Personally I think it might have looked a touch better on a gold kit.


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## workinforwood (Nov 5, 2011)

btboone said:


> Nicely done!  That's a lot of machine time.  How did you keep it all together when machining the thin parts?



it's all pocket cuts. 5/8 brass rod. I wrapped the design on the rod and put a ring 1/2" in from each side then do a pocket profile and set the depth so it does not go all the way through. When it is cut, it looks like a tube with a dragon glued on it, of course the dragon is not glued on though, it's part of the tube. Then it is easily cast, and spun back down to the metal, stick the rod in a collet and part off the two scrap ends that the mill was holding on to. Looks like the virtual part in this pdf.


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## bitshird (Nov 5, 2011)

I kind of thought you were doing a Pocket and Island thing, Now you need a good set of reamers, to do the inside diameters with, Then I would do one and submit it to the PMG, I think you'll get in with one like that!


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## workinforwood (Nov 5, 2011)

bitshird said:


> I kind of thought you were doing a Pocket and Island thing, Now you need a good set of reamers, to do the inside diameters with, Then I would do one and submit it to the PMG, I think you'll get in with one like that!



I have good reamers, that's how I do the inside holes to get them the same as the inside of the JR Tubes diameter and why it takes so long to drill them out properly.  I don't think the PMG would want me to enter this pen, they'd probably think I lost my marbles since I've been a member for at least 2 yrs already! :wink::biggrin:


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## RichB (Nov 5, 2011)

Jeff  That one is just plain FANTASTIC.  I looks like you are starting to figure out that machine.  They do seem to keep us humble, don't they.  Thanks for showing it.  Richb


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## Mapster (Nov 5, 2011)

Very cool. Toss a blank like that on one of your brass kitless pens and you are looking pro. That is a great design too, must have been tough to draw with all of the arcs and such. When will it hit the stores?


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## Toni (Nov 5, 2011)

Jeff~awesome pen!!


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## BRobbins629 (Nov 5, 2011)

Great job Jeff.  When just looking at it, its hard to believe so many hours went into it, but I know only too well how long they take.  Its been interesting to see how you have taken the equipment in a different direction to incorporate your designs.


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## workinforwood (Nov 5, 2011)

BRobbins629 said:


> Great job Jeff.  When just looking at it, its hard to believe so many hours went into it, but I know only too well how long they take.  Its been interesting to see how you have taken the equipment in a different direction to incorporate your designs.



Thanks Bruce. It does look simple, but like you know, it's repetitive and slow to accomplish, the details are pretty darn small and the bit required is only half a mm to get into those tight spaces. Half a mm cutting metal, that's a slow feed rate and multiple layers of cutting to get the depth. The machine can run pretty darn fast, but with something like this 12.5 hrs is the fastest I can get one barrel completed perfectly and without breaking a bit. If you break a bit and catch it relatively soon after, I have figured out how to get it going again with a new bit and not start all the way back at the beginning, but the odds of catching a bit break early is not good. The machine is running all night long and I'll be in bed. If the bit breaks I couldn't guess where, and sometimes if you do too much rewind you might miss a few steps in the motors winding back too quick and the recut will be screwed up, so the only logical option is to just go slow and easy, the tortoise wins the race. It was real rough in the beginning, and I had many more failures than successes, but now the reverse is finally starting to happen.  I cut through 10 feet of 5/8 aluminum rods (3.25 inches at a time) and only got 3 successful non reject dragons! Now I cut the last 6 (3.25inch)rods with one reject and that was the computer froze up on me. I've learned a lot with all my failures. While I cut a few more of these, I'm working on designing something else brand new and spectacular too. Been wanting to do it for a long time, just wasn't feasible until now.


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## Rick P (Nov 5, 2011)

Really well done! When I worked in tattooing we called that style "Tribal" adding the moniker might bring your pens into a whole new market. Lots of neotribalists out there that LOVE your kind of work!


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## ghostrider (Nov 5, 2011)

That is sooo cool.

I always enjoy coming here to see other people's work.

Thanks for sharing.


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## hewunch (Nov 5, 2011)

Your brass is showing! :biggrin:

Seriously, great looking pen. Even if it is on a kit.


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## boxerman (Nov 5, 2011)

Awesome pen & blank Jeff. You make some of best blanks.


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## bluwolf (Nov 6, 2011)

Very slick Jeff. But I'm with Pete, I think a gold kit would have set off your design better.


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## Jim15 (Nov 6, 2011)

Jeff, that is beyond awesome.


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## jaeger (Nov 6, 2011)

Beautiful Pen!
Most of us will never be able to engrave like this but none the less, this is what inspires many of us. Incorporating engraving and casting takes us to a new level. 
My inspiration from this design is a visit with my engraver and do something more simple like cut outs of veneer burl that I have. My engraver is very reasonable but they want quanity like 20-30 pieces. If I get something going I will attribute work like this for the results.
Even though my idea is not close to your work, it is still kicking up the custom design a notch or two.
Thanks Jeff!


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## witz1976 (Nov 6, 2011)

Woah...that is beyond cool.  You have def. been have some fun now haven't you?


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## Rangertrek (Nov 6, 2011)

Really great Jeff!


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## workinforwood (Nov 6, 2011)

Yes, a gold kit might have been a bit better, but I didn't have one. I don't have many kits laying around. Eventually the brass will age and darken a bit too, so it won't be so gold looking unless it's re polished. I kinda like metal when it ages though. The deep brown will match with this kit more.

Thanks for the great feedback!


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## beck3906 (Nov 6, 2011)

If there's 12 hours of cutting time, how much will this cost to manufacture?  My mental image of the CNC machine is something the size of a dining room table.


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## pensbydesign (Nov 6, 2011)

nice job awesome effect


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## RHossack (Nov 6, 2011)

I'm speechless Jeff.... you don't need your ego stroked stroked and I'm truly amazed at what you conjurer up in that head of yours  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




On another forum a discussion on PR affecting color brilliance and I don't know if you cast it in PR or Alumilite but that brass appears to be nice and shiny and wasn't dulled at all by your medium.

Maybe you can place that pen next to that $40 vase I saw and mark it accordingly for a few giggles. :biggrin:


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## workinforwood (Nov 6, 2011)

beck3906 said:


> If there's 12 hours of cutting time, how much will this cost to manufacture?  My mental image of the CNC machine is something the size of a dining room table.



The first one is the most expensive...That was about 15 grand. They get cheaper though, the next one was only half that! :biggrin:

Really though, I'm not entire sure the cost, talking my cost to make one for me of course.  Brass is more expensive, if it was aluminum the cost would be about 80 cents. $6 for 2 bits, after cutting one barrel, no point continuing with that bit, it's pretty much wore out. I don't know what PR costs, with coloring, maybe another dollar. Cutting fluid..now that's expensive! Seems to burn through about 1/2 gallon over 12 hrs, with splashing and evaporation, $175 for 5 gallons but you add water, so 5 gallons is really 50 gallons, breaks down to maybe $1.75, and then electricity I pray I don't see that bill. So my known physical costs on this pen without the pen kit would be probably $10-12. Not that a blank like this could be retailed that low, as you have a lot of physical labor involved too, it's not all just watching the machine work. There's drilling rods to do, trimming rods, cleaning and oiling and some other maintenance on the machine as it runs every so often you have to go check on it, there's wear and tear on the machine itself and then many many hours of sitting at a computer working on the design. In a retail world, to make and sell a blank like this would not be profitable, just sustaining, because you'd have to charge a fair bit to hit that break even point and people will only pay so much because they also can only charge so much. And the time it takes to cut one out, you only get half a pen a day.

A CNC could be the size of a table or many times larger. Mine takes up a 4 foot square, but the machine itself is only about 2x2x3 without including the stand, and about a 1000 lbs. The size of the machine for something like this doesn't really matter. A much larger machine could not do it any faster, it has the same limitations as to what a cutter bit can handle.


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## PR_Princess (Nov 11, 2011)

Jeff, that is simply awesome!!!! Soo cool!! Definitely up a level!!! You could never of done that on your scroll saw!

But.......350,000 lines of code??


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## CharlesH (Nov 11, 2011)

Hey Jeff,

That's a mind blowing pen you made. Is it for sale? (even if it was I wish I could afford it)

Charles

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S2.


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## drgoretex (Nov 12, 2011)

Wow!!!

That is an incredible piece of work!  The brass on the grey background is just stunning!

Ken


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## workinforwood (Nov 12, 2011)

Thanks everyone. Yes this pen is for sale like pretty much most pens I make, I put it on my website last week..but this is not an advertisement to sell my pen, especially to another penturner, lol..just showing off what I'm learning to do with a new toy.


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## JohnU (Nov 13, 2011)

What an attention getter!  That pen screams " Look at me!".  The brass goes well with the nib and really jumps out at you on top of that silver. As always, your Dragon design looks awesome!  Totally fit for a king!


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## Ruby pen turning (Nov 13, 2011)

Your aluminum dragon was cool but this one is cooler I think. I like the subdued charcoal resin with the dragon coming out of it. Very nice!!


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## joefyffe (Nov 15, 2011)

Jeff:  350,000 lines of code, CNC Machine, running while you sleep,  I am SOOOOOO disapointed.  I thought you did all that stuff FREEHAND!!*NOT!!!!!  *Now back to "serious"  That is so much more than I can ever even imagine accomplishing.  I checked with Webster and there are no words in his book worthy of describing that pen.  So, I will just say Beautiful!!!

Thanks everyone. Yes this pen is for sale like pretty much most pens I make, I put it on my website last week..but this is not an advertisement to sell my pen, especially to another penturner, lol..just showing off what I'm learning to do with a new toy.[/quote]


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## MartinPens (Nov 15, 2011)

Dang! I absolutely love that pen! I really think I need that in my collection.  : )


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