# uni-ball 65873  IMPACT RT Refill



## Randy_ (Apr 11, 2009)

I'm getting ready to make up a few experimental Sierra click pens with some letterwood (weak figured snakewood) that Hank Lee graciously donated to my project. The basic idea will be to see if using generously sized holes with flexible adhesives will have any impact on the wood cracking problem that is so common with many snakewood pens. One thing I am especially interested in testing is a flexible epoxy that Hank sent me a sample of that is sold in Japan. Don't ever recall seeing such a product in the US although it probably does exist. This wood has been sitting in his shop for several years and I let it sit for another month or two after its international flight while weighing it to be sure no weight changes were occurring.

My question, however, is what is the length of the uni-ball refill that is used in the Sierra click kit? Personally, I prefer the Pilot G2 refill to the uni-ball and as I recall, the G2 is just a hair shorter than the uni-ball; but I don't have one in-house right now to measure up. The G2 is right at 111mm.

Thanks.


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## KiltedGunn (Apr 11, 2009)

I don't have an answer to your question but DANGIT, you got me all EXCITED!

Ran out into the garage with a Sierra in my hands...snatched the G2 from my uniform (we use them at work) and tried to shove them together...but, alas, it doesn't fit!

Guessing you knew that already! :wink:


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## Randy_ (Apr 12, 2009)

KiltedGunn said:


> I don't have an answer to your question but DANGIT, you got me all EXCITED!
> 
> Ran out into the garage with a Sierra in my hands...snatched the G2 from my uniform (we use them at work) and tried to shove them together...but, alas, it doesn't fit!
> 
> Guessing you knew that already! :wink:


 
Yes and no, Lee.  I assume you are talking about the twist Sierra?
 
Don't give up so quick.  With a little tweaking of the refill, I think you can make it work.  Note that the G2 refill is just a few thousandths more than 1/2" longer than the Parker refill.  Soooooo............
 
Pry the little black cap out of the end of the G2 refill and then use a utility knife to cut off 1/2" of the top end of the refill.  There is some empty space at the top of the refill so you will not get into the ink or the grease seal.  That may be all that is necessary to convert your Sierra to a G2 refill.
 
But it may not................  You may also need to cut off about half of the spring that comes with the Sierra kit or better yet just switch it out for the spring in the Pilot pen.
 
I think those steps will permit the use of the G2 refill in your Sierra; but if you have trouble holler and we will see if we can work it out.
 
Be real careful when you cut off the G2 refill.  Measure twice, cut once.  If you cut off too much, you are fried.  You might actually want to cut off just a hair less and check for fit and then trim a hair more for a final fit if necessary.
 
Good Luck!!


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## Rudy Vey (Apr 13, 2009)

Randy_ said:


> Yes and no, Lee.  I assume you are talking about the twist Sierra?
> 
> Don't give up so quick.  With a little tweaking of the refill, I think you can make it work.  Note that the G2 refill is just a few thousandths more than 1/2" longer than the Parker refill.  Soooooo............
> 
> ...


Why would one make a modification to a refill?? I am selling my pens and I have to rely that my customers can buy readily available refills. I don't think I could sell them the idea to buy a certain refill and then cut a piece off - this makes absolutely no sense to me.


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## NewLondon88 (Apr 13, 2009)

Rudy Vey said:


> Why would one make a modification to a refill??



Personal pen.. not for sale


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## KiltedGunn (Apr 13, 2009)

Thanks, Randy!  I'll give it a whirl!


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## Don_Hart (Apr 13, 2009)

I have made the G2 refill fit in several of the sierra click pens. The biggest problem is not the length of the refill but the diameter of the hole in the nib of the pen. 

The interior of the nib in the sierra click pen necks down pretty quickly and this will not allow the refill to fully extend. 

you will need to do two things. 

1. you will need to open the end hole in the nib just a hair until the end of the refill will pass through it smoothly. test this by pushing the end of the refill in through the hole backwards and making sure it will smoothly pass through up through the nib.

2.you will need to open up the interior of the nib so the refill will fully extend through the nib with the spring installed.

Then it should work fine with a G2 refill.


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## Randy_ (Apr 13, 2009)

Rudy Vey said:


> Why would one make a modification to a refill?? I am selling my pens and I have to rely that my customers can buy readily available refills. I don't think I could sell them the idea to buy a certain refill and then cut a piece off - this makes absolutely no sense to me.


 
Rudy:  It was my impression, as well, that Lee was asking a question about his personal pen.  
 
I would never do this for a pen that was to be sold to the general public unless it was as a customer request and then I would be sure that the customer was aware of the need to trim the refill and that he/she was willing and able to take on that minor inconvenience.:wink:


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## Randy_ (Apr 13, 2009)

Don_Hart said:


> I have made the G2 refill fit in several of the sierra click pens. The biggest problem is not the length of the refill but the diameter of the hole in the nib of the pen.
> 
> The interior of the nib in the sierra click pen necks down pretty quickly and this will not allow the refill to fully extend......


 
What Don says is true.....in some cases.....and may be a consideration.
 
Funny how these kits seem to vary quite a bit.  On my Sierra twist kits, the refill tip only extends out of the pen tip by about 2-1/2mm even with the spring totally removed from the pen.  What that means is the point where the refill tip changes from cone shaped to cylindrical is just even with the tip of the pen.  That is the extension I prefer; but some folks like a little more extension so that a mm or so of the cylindrical portion of the refill tip is also exposed.  That won't happen.....probably.....unless you drill out the pen tip a little unless the tip of your twist pen is different than mine which is always a possibility.
 
Don:  The tip of my Sierra click pen must be different than yours (or maybe my G2 refill is different??) as the G2 refill fits the pen tip just fine and will extend about 6mm beyond the end of the pen tip......way more that anyone would require.  I will say that it won't do that with the spring that is supplied with the kit.  I had to cut off about half of the spring to get the extension that I wanted.  I could have drilled out the pen tip; but cutting off the spring was easier.  I've drilled out tips of pens to convert them to pencils and that can be a little tricky if you are not careful.


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## Randy_ (Apr 13, 2009)

Hey..............  Still waiting for an answer to my original question.
 
Anyone out there have a Sierra click pen with the uni-ball refill installed that could measure it up for me?
 
Thanks.


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## Jim15 (Apr 13, 2009)

Randy, the 70207 uni-ball measures at 111.53 for me.


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## Randy_ (Apr 13, 2009)

Thanks, Jim.  That is about 1/2mm longer than what I measure the G2 refill to be.  One half mm is not enough difference to worry about so I should be OK with the G2 refill??
 
I assume all of the uni-ball refills of that type are the same length; but, of course we can't be absolutely sure.  I sent an email to uni-ball over the weekend and they replied today; but the figures they sent me were obviously wrong so I sent a follow-up.  Hopefully, they will get back to me tomorrow.


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## Rudy Vey (Apr 14, 2009)

The length is not the big difference between the G2 and the Uni-Ball 70207, they look pretty much the same length holding them next to each other (didn't measure them, just eyeballed) - so length should be no problem. The big difference between these two refills in the geometry on the writing end: the G2 has several steps and the Uni-Ball is pretty much straight - in the area where the spring will go - the G2 has no space for the spring.  I tried  to put a G2 in a Sierra Click, did not work.


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## Don_Hart (Apr 14, 2009)

Yes you will either have to cut the spring as Randy suggests or drill the tip as I mentioned. Since I was making the pens for customers at their request I decided to drill the tip instead of cutting the springs. This way the pen would work with all standard components that way if the  spring was lost it could be replaced with a normal spring and the customer would not have to cut the spring. 

Drilling the tip can be tricky if you are using a power drill. What I do is mount the drill bit in a collet style tap wrench and drill it by hand. It takes a little longer but it is much easier to get the results you want. 

The Pilot G2 is a popular refill and can be a good selling point. It takes some work to be able to use it in a sierra click and I normally only do that upon special request. But I do advertise the fact that it can be used as a direct replacement on any pen that uses a schmidt 888 or hauser refill.


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## Randy_ (Apr 14, 2009)

Rudy Vey said:


> The length is not the big difference between the G2 and the Uni-Ball 70207, they look pretty much the same length holding them next to each other (didn't measure them, just eyeballed) - so length should be no problem. *The big difference between these two refills in the geometry on the writing end: the G2 has several steps and the Uni-Ball is pretty much straight -* in the area where the spring will go - the G2 has no space for the spring. I tried to put a G2 in a Sierra Click, did not work.


 
Actually, there is only one step you really have to worry about.  I have an old refill around here somewhere.  I'm going to put that refill in my collet chuck and see if I can remove that step without making a BIG mess. 
 
In fact, I am quite certain that I can remove the step.  The real question is whether or not there will be a mess involved??:biggrin::biggrin:
 
Yeah, I know this is not the preferred solution to the current problem......I'm just curious.  And who knows when this might be useful in the future, assuming that it works.


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## Randy_ (Apr 14, 2009)

Don_Hart said:


> Yes you will either have to cut the spring as Randy suggests or drill the tip as I mentioned. Since I was making the pens for customers at their request I decided to drill the tip instead of cutting the springs. *This way the pen would work with all standard components* that way if the spring was lost it could be replaced with a normal spring and the customer would not have to cut the spring.....


 
Don:  I agree that your way is best.  I was just looking for a quick and dirty solution for my personal use.


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## Randy_ (Apr 16, 2009)

Well, it looks like no one is using the 65873 refill with their Sierra click pens??
 
I called the manufacturer yesterday following up my earlier email.  They repeated the erroneous information that I had been emailed earlier and could not find any better information even after going up the chain of command a notch or two.
 
They finally just offered to send me a refill so I could check out the measurements for myself.  They are also sending a refill for the non-retractable version cause it is likely to be a different length.
 
So the uni-ball customer service folks get a gold star for resolving their earlier bobble.


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## Randy_ (Apr 18, 2009)

Randy_ said:


> .....Actually, there is only one step you really have to worry about. I have an old refill around here somewhere. I'm going to put that refill in my collet chuck and see if I can remove that step without making a BIG mess.
> 
> In fact, I am quite certain that I can remove the step. The real question is whether or not there will be a mess involved??:biggrin::biggrin:.....


 
Well, I turned the step off the G2 refill last night and had no problem. You do have to be careful as there is not a lot of leeway for mistake; but it can be done!!


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## Randy_ (Apr 20, 2009)

Jim15 said:


> Randy, the 70207 uni-ball measures at 111.53 for me.


 
The folks at Sanford sent me another email today.  Seems their technical literature did not contain the length of the refill......who would have guessed??
 
Anyway, someone there was blessed with a kilo or two of common sense, took a refill out of a pen laying around the office and measured it......now who would have ever thought of that??
 
The measurement they sent me for the 65673 refill was 113mm.  That means the 65873 refill is a different length than the 70207 refill or someone has gotten a measurement off a little.
 
Half a mm is not a big deal; but a full 2mm would be enough to cause a problem so guess I will have to wait until I receive my sample refill from them.


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## gbhazel (Apr 20, 2009)

*Uni-Ball Refill*

*Randy
This is what i send out with all of my Sierra Clicks.                                Please Note: Your pen kit is supplied with a Parker style refill. However, this pen also accepts the high quality Uniball™ #65873 black or #71207 blue gel refill. This Uniball™ refill can be purchased at a local office supply store if you prefer it to the Parker style. The chrome extension is not used with the Uniball™ refill
I just measured the Uni-Ball Refill, it measured out at 111.45 mm. the only difference in the 65873 and the 71207 is one is blue and the other is black. Both measure the same length, also each of these numbers are a gel refill the standard refill might be different. i have not used any of them yet.*


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## Randy_ (Apr 20, 2009)

Thanks for the information, Gary,  That seems to support what Jim posted earlier.  Maybe the folks at Sanford don't know how to measure a refill??
 
On another issue, there is something you might want to check on relative to the instructions you are sending out with your Sierra kits.  It turns out that the Parker clone refills that come with most if not all of the pen kits are a little different that the brand Parker refills.
 
On the clone refills that I have seen, the little hole in the end of the refill penetrates completely through the plastic end of the refill and allows the little tit on the end of the extension to fully enter the hole with a nice snug fit.  On the brand Parker refills, however, that little "hole" is not fully formed and is more of a dimple than hole.  The extension does not fully insert into the hole and the fit is very loose.  Could cause confusion or problems for your customers.  I have pointed this out to both the folks at Berea and AS; but don't know if anything has been done to fix the problem.


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## gbhazel (Apr 20, 2009)

Randy 
I found one other issue on some of the Sierra clicks, it appears that the business end of the Parker refill won't go all the way through the nib. this does'nt seem to be a problem with the Parker clones. As well as the issue that you have pointed out.


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## Randy_ (Apr 20, 2009)

Is that a problem you have had recently??
 
Up until a year ago or maybe a little longer the tips on the brand Parkers were slightly larger than the clone tips.  I made a post about it and posted a bunch of measurements of different types of Parker clones.  Not too long after that someone posted that Parker was changing the sizes of their tips downward to more closely match the size of the clone tips.  As I recall the Parker tips were right at 0.1" in diameter and the clones were about 0.003" smaller, some a little more.  Generally, that has not been a problem more recently although some kits that are heavily plated occasionally still cause a problem; but it seems to affect the clones as well as the brand refills.
 
Despite the fact that the problem should be resolved, I keep a Parker brand refill on my bench and test every pen tip that I make to be sure there is no binding.
 
Maybe you have gotten hold of some old refills??


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## Randy_ (Apr 22, 2009)

Jim15 said:


> Randy, the 70207 uni-ball measures at *111.53* for me.


 


gbhazel said:


> .....*I just measured the Uni-Ball Refill, it measured out at 111.45 mm. the only difference in the 65873 and the 71207 is one is blue and the other is black. Both measure the same length, also each of these numbers are a gel refill the standard refill might be different. i have not used any of them yet.*


 
I just got my sample uni-ball 65873 in the mail, today and the refill I have measured 111.38mm so I guess we have a pretty good idea of how long that refill really is.  The variation in our collective measurements is ±0.003" which is more than close enough for government work.
 
BTW, just for fun I happened to have a rollerball refill on the bench from a PSI Classic and from a Jr. Gent.   I didn't bother to measure those two,but they eyeball to be the same length as the uni-ball so there must be some industry standard there that some folks are trying to hit.  It would be interesting to know exactly what it is??
 
Anyway, thanks for all of the comments.  I think we have pretty well resolved this issue!!


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