# What did I do wrong with CA?



## sandking (Dec 4, 2006)

Hi all,

I recently began turning pens and have been in contact with Fangar and his great CA finishing methods and as a good student try and follow them for a successful finish.  Today I had a heck of a time and was hoping someone could shed some light.

I just got some 1" East Indian Rosewood last week and cut some blanks yesterday for some Cigar pens.  I used thick CA to glue the tubes and milled them square this morning.  The first pen went well until I started applying the CA.  I sanded through 12K MM and started applied two thin layers of CA.  When the CA dried it was very dull almost as if the wood just absorbed the thin CA.  I then applied two coats of thick CA.  This also seemed to be dull in certain spots but shinny in others????  I must have applied five layers of thick assuming eventually I'd have a shiny layer to buff.

Eventually I took my scraper and went down to bare wood and started again.  It took like all day but I got the finish done.

After not having enough of pain I started the second one.  It again turned well and now I'm having the same issues.  Not only is it dull, but there are even white lines on top????

I've done a search and read where people think the moisture content could be the problem, but I don't have a moisture meter.  The people at Craft Supply said the wood was ok to turn when I got it???

Please help&gt;&gt;&gt;


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## leehljp (Dec 4, 2006)

I have found that when the temperatures are not ideal and humidity is moderate or more, some CAs will harden to a dull/flat finish. Being dull or flat does not affect the final finish for me. I use fine mesh sanding sheets 500 or more to smooth everything out and then micromesh or other from there. Usually for me, I use the "other" and it comes out to a super shine.

When I have white spots, I sand it off, all the way off. It is not necessarily moisture content of wood but of humidity also. Another culprit is cheap and or old CA.


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## chigdon (Dec 4, 2006)

There are a lot of reasons as Hank mentioned for each of these to happen and probably more that we don't really know.  My method and Fangar's are different as most people develop their own different but similar methods.  

I use entirely thin CA and only use Hot Stuff CA for my finish (I use cheaper for tubes, etc).  For what ever reason I have found I am less likely to get those dull areas with Hot Stuff.  I am not convinced that is the reason but it seems to be related.  You don't use as much CA doing CA finishes as you think you will so don't go buy a gallon jug of it -- it will go bad.  

You will sand back through the CA when leveling and polishing it.  You have to build your finish up enough to even it out.  I usually use 4 coats once the first of those is 'sitting on top of the wood'.  When you have more pourous woods the first coat or two (or more) will be absorbed and not really count (using my method).  It could be that the dull areas are places where you are sanding back down to the wood.  I have personally done this MANY times and had to build the coat back up and repolish.


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## sandking (Dec 4, 2006)

Seems like this piece of wood works much better with thin CA finish as opposed to thick.


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## Dario (Dec 4, 2006)

Did you use DNA when you cleaned your blank?

I experienced the same as you described when I used DNA...seems like some residue doesn't evaporate fast enough and wrecks havoc on my CA finish.  I now clean my blank with CA accelerator if needed.  No problem since.


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## leehljp (Dec 5, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Dario_
> <br />Did you use DNA when you cleaned your blank?
> . . . I now clean my blank with CA accelerator if needed.  No problem since.



That is a good idea Dario! I am going to try it.


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## sandking (Dec 5, 2006)

Dario I like that idea also, I'll try it.  I did clean some of the sanding dust with DNA before putting the finish on.


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## chigdon (Dec 5, 2006)

That could be it, I have never used DNA for that.


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## Mattmck (Dec 7, 2006)

I use Fangar's method mostly.  Stopped using the sanding sealer, and stopped using DNA. I have my air hose handy and use compressed air to blow off the sanding debris.  The 'tipping point' for me on this finish was when I began using the accellerator. (aerosol only, like Fangar suggests, AND waiting 1-2 minutes after an application of THICK CA before spraying).  This has increased my success with this finish to 100% first time. (knocking on wood)  

Good luck, be persistent, and take notes if you change anything.  It will save you loads of time, frustration, cussing, etc. DAMHIKT

Thanks again to Fangar for your willingness to share your expertise. My enjoyment of this hobby has risen exponentially because of this.  I am now using a 'pared down' version of this finish on bottle stoppers as well.  I just did a craft show about 2 weeks ago, and I sold the CA, very shiny bottle stoppers 10 to 1 over my old Bottle stopper finish.


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## C. Scott (Dec 7, 2006)

Sandking,

Don't give up on the CA finish.  Monty first told me about at a craftshow and up until then I was quite happy with the friction finishes.  I was at first grateful, then mad, then grateful, then mad, etc.  Currently I'm grateful.  Here's the bottomline, find a CA procedure that you can get comfortable with and make repeatable.  Consistency is the key.  I have discovered from turning pens for about 10 years (averaging 20-25 pens per year) is I am always learning and trying to improve my pen quality.  Also, that the more time I put into finishing my pens, the better they look.

When I ask one of my customers how their pen is holding up or actually get to see it, it makes me proud to see that CA finish still looking great.  That being said, the friction polishes have their place, it's not the "end all" finish for pens.  I like friction polishes on certain woods like Blackwood and Olivewood, but that's just me.  

Yes humidity and temp has a lot to do with CA cure times.  I keep a hair dryer next to my lathe (I don't use accelerant, no reason, just don't) to help it cure if it's cold in the garage, (which I don't worry about too much living the Houston area) and sometimes I just wait or go and work on something else.

One techique that has helped a lot though has been the sanding slurry that is been mentioned a lot in CA discussions.  It doesn't work for others.  Also, I don't wipe down with DNA, I use Acetone instead, it evaporates much faster.  I hope this helps. []

Oh, one more thing.  Contrary to popular believe the is no such thing as the "perfect pen" just pens with fewer flaws. []


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## sandking (Dec 7, 2006)

Thanks everyone.  I stopped using the DNA but there are times when the compressed air doesn't get all the dust out.  Is that because I haven't sanded completely smooth and it's caught in a ridge?

Matt, I use the Deft High Gloss Lacquer on my stoppers and it looks great.  Fangar recommended, so I tried it.  I was watching a woodturning show the other day and they didn't recommend using CA glue to put the dowel in the wood b/c of the temp changes from going in and out of a fridge can crack the bond. I don't know how that holds true with the outside finish, but I'd thought I'd let you know.


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## sandking (Dec 7, 2006)

> _Originally posted by C. Scott_
> <br />Sandking,
> 
> Yes humidity and temp has a lot to do with CA cure times.  I keep a hair dryer next to my lathe (I don't use accelerant, no reason, just don't) to help it cure if it's cold in the garage, (which I don't worry about too much living the Houston area) and sometimes I just wait or go and work on something else.]



Does the hair dryer help set the CA faster?  That could take a few minutes off my finish time.  I bought a heat gun at a garage sale for $5 and would use that if it helped.  My garage is about 55* when I get in there.  I put the heater on while I work and can get it to 63* after an hour or so.


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## C. Scott (Dec 7, 2006)

I would think that a heat gun is far too hot.  My hairdryer does help the CA cure quicker.  I don't run it on the highest setting, just one notch below it.  It's cool enougth that I can hold my hand over it for several seconds with no difficulty.  You can't do that with a heat gun.  63 degrees is not bad at all.  The garage during the last cold snap was at least in the low 50's and my little heater and hairdryer worked well.  Heater for me, dryer for the pens. []


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## Mattmck (Dec 9, 2006)

you'll find the accellerator to be unsurpassed by heat, air, etc in drying the CA.  Most of the spots, "dull" areas, etc on a CA'd pen are caused from incompletely cured glue, IMHO.  the acc is the best way to go for me, and it is much much faster.


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## bob393 (Dec 9, 2006)

Good info, thanks also.


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