# Calipers?



## texasfootball21 (May 17, 2009)

Okay, I know this is a stupid question, but I'm going to ask anyways.

*Are calipers really that helpful in pen making?* I've made hundreds of pens and never learned to use them. Always just looked and touched the blanks to judge whether they needed to be thinned down.

I'm one of those guys who can't make anything besides pens, and any advice is helpful.


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## ldb2000 (May 17, 2009)

IMHO Calipers are the MOST important tool in Pen making . I use my calipers to check the size of the tubes to make sure that I'm using the RIGHT drill bit , not the one that the supplier says I need . Then I turn my blanks round between centers so I can hold them in my collet chuck and drill the blanks , I use the calipers to check the blank size as I turn it round so I know when my blanks are the right size to fit in the collet .
Since turning and sanding will make your bushings smaller with each pen you make , you should use the calipers to make sure that your finished barrels will fit the kit parts correctly . And much , much more .
I won't even go into how much they are used in making kitless pens or we could be here all night .


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## johnnycnc (May 17, 2009)

I'll throw my 2 cents in; I use calipers very often for many things
when I turn pens and consider them to be an important tool.
Wouldn't want to be without them, as a matter of fact!
I don't use them to measure blanks as I turn,
but I do use them for measuring:
*tubes, inside and out, and length.
* bushings, to make sure they are the right order, and match kit
properly.
*Kit fittings, to verify they are what size you just picked the bushing for.
*drill bits, there are times when you want to know exactly what size it is.
* length of finished blanks, or trimmed blanks, to see if you made it too short
for the parts to work right.
* measuring all the small things in your shop that you never knew just what size they were. For example; segmenting..what size kerf blade have you got. what size strip
for that kerf did you just saw.
handy for measuring bolts, screws, dowel rods, pins,etc.

I have at least two pairs at any time in the shop.Reason being, about once a year
I drop one and ruin it.Need another to carry on until replaced.
I also have micrometers, but that is more metalworking related.
A good dial/digital caliper is usually good for +/- .001 accuracy, check the mfg. specs on this. 
AVOID the plastic framed calipers like the plague, accuracy varies, but average
is +/- .005-.015 range.a waste of good money in my opinion.

Also, for anyone's calipers out there, if they have not been calibrated and verified to be accurate still, don't bet that they are. A drop in the floor or good flip
on the workbench can work ruin.Also, keeping the little teeth clean, or sliding area
can be a factor in accuracy.Burrs on the jaws are a killer.Dropped hard, and a burr is very likely to occur. Burrs can be gently stoned off, but it is 
a delicate thing.

Just my thoughts!


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## texasfootball21 (May 17, 2009)

Thanks guys. 

Any you would recommend? I'm thinking about making a small order at CSUSA, any good ones there?


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## holmqer (May 17, 2009)

I use calipers a lot in turning for all the reasons described above. I use them not just for pens, but for all sorts of small turnings. They are the sort of thing that once you have them and start using them, you discover how helpfull they are and end up constantly using them.


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## johnnycnc (May 17, 2009)

This one would be my pick of what CSUSA has to offer.
http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/s...ectronic_Digital_Caliper___elec_caliper?Args=

I think the price is very low, especially for them.They have great customer
service if you have a problem, so...

If it is any good, it's a bargain.
Just remember to turn it off, it likely does not have an auto off at that price.
batteries will expire quickly if you do not shut it off.DAMHIKT!!


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## Randy_ (May 18, 2009)

johnnycnc said:


> .....Just remember to turn it off, it likely does not have an auto off at that price.
> batteries will expire quickly if you do not shut it off.DAMHIKT!!


 
You can buy batteries that will fit your digital calipers at the various dollar stores.  They will be the alkaline type rather than the longer lasting and much more expensive mercury oxide batteries; but at a buck for a dozen or ten they are a tremendous bargain relative to buying a 2-pack from Home Depot or Walmart.  Other benefit is you are unlikely to be caught without a battery when yours goes dead from a forgetful mistake which you, surely, will make sooner or later!  :wink:


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## Paul in OKC (May 18, 2009)

Oddly enough, I don't use calipers when turning my pens.


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## RHunter (May 18, 2009)

I use my calipers (HF calipers) to determine the bushing size and compare them to the instructions - helps prevent putting the wrong bushing against the wrong "side" of the pen.  Flipping the blank during assembly messes up grain alignment. 

I also use them to "extend" the bushing measurement onto the blank.  I do this for pens that need tenons (El Toro, El Presidente, Robusto).

HF has their versions on sale most often, and if not their 20% off coupons come in handy!

-Doug


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## leehljp (May 18, 2009)

I use calipers to determine the size of the blanks being turned because I do NOT use bushings for that.

The reason I do not use bushings is that:
1. I use woods whose colors often are affected by sanding dust from the bushings.
2. I use oily woods often and quite often CA will stick to the bushings. When separating, (even if scored) the separation occasionally causes the CA to lift off of the oily wood. Therefore, I do not use bushings at this stage.
3. Bushings are considered as consumables because they will wear down due to sanding or "touches" from the chisel. If bushings are not used in the sanding stage or finish application stage, the bushings will not become consumables, and . . . money saved! :highfive:

I use calipers to determine the size and eliminate the problems listed above.


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## texasfootball21 (May 18, 2009)

leehljp said:


> I use calipers to determine the size of the blanks being turned because I do NOT use bushings for that.
> 
> The reason I do not use bushings is that:
> 1. I use woods whose colors often are affected by sanding dust from the bushings.
> ...



So, you turn between centers, using no bushings? Sounds like an idea I'd like to try. Have any tips or can you explain a little?


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## texasfootball21 (May 18, 2009)

johnnycnc said:


> This one would be my pick of what CSUSA has to offer.
> http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/s...ectronic_Digital_Caliper___elec_caliper?Args=
> 
> I think the price is very low, especially for them.They have great customer
> ...



*Should that one be accurate enough to turn without bushings? *


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## texasfootball21 (May 18, 2009)

Just placed an order for the calipers John suggested. I think I am going to try turning without bushings, as suggested by Lee.

Thanks guys!


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## johnnycnc (May 19, 2009)

texasfootball21 said:


> *Should that one be accurate enough to turn without bushings? *



Indeed it should, accuracy is probably .001 or so, more than accurate enough.
I won't presume to speak for Hank on the "no bushings" but I would suggest that you may wish to get clarification on that.:musical-note:


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## randyrls (May 19, 2009)

Randy_ said:


> You can buy batteries that will fit your digital calipers at the various dollar stores



Randy;  Mitutoyo has "solar powered" calipers now.  Just like a solar powered calculator.  Never have a dead battery again.  Of course at $133.00 or so, you have to have a lot of MONEY!


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## Randy_ (May 19, 2009)

Interesting!!
 
You also need a very bright shop!!:biggrin::wink:


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## texasfootball21 (May 24, 2009)

I just got the calipers John mentioned from CSUSA. They measure into the hundredth, not thousandth of a millimeter. Was expecting nn.nnn and instead it measures only nn.nn

Is this how its supposed to be? Or should I try to return them?


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## DCBluesman (May 24, 2009)

One-hundredth of a millimeter is just under 4 ten-thousandths of an inch.  That should be accurate enough for everything except rocket science and brain surgery.


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## johnnycnc (May 24, 2009)

texasfootball21 said:


> I just got the calipers John mentioned from CSUSA. They measure into the hundredth, not thousandth of a millimeter. Was expecting nn.nnn and instead it measures only nn.nn
> 
> Is this how its supposed to be? Or should I try to return them?



Sounds right to me, my 95.00 Mitutoyo calipers read the same in metric
as what you describe (n.nn) .Mine have n.nnnnn in english.
For reference, .01 mm is .00039 in english, this is very small.
Also, I doubt your calipers (or mine, for that matter) are truly capable
of that kind of accuracy.
Manufacturers give a tolerance for calibration accuracy
on these things, and it is not the same as the smallest unit of display.
Typical calipers are good for +/- .001 (one thousandth).
I use calipers every day at work ,and find this to be true when double checking measurements using more precise instruments such as micrometers or bore gages.
Bottom line, you're good to go.


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## texasfootball21 (May 24, 2009)

Sorry guys I got millimeters and inches mixed up somehow. I was looking at pen instructions and I was thinking millimeters and not inches.

Thanks.


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## cdbakkum (May 24, 2009)

Calipers? I have never used a set of calipers. They are just a waste of time. You should not need to use this kind of helper to make a pen. Carl


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## texasfootball21 (May 24, 2009)

cdbakkum said:


> Calipers? I have never used a set of calipers. They are just a waste of time. You should not need to use this kind of helper to make a pen. Carl



I don't believe I need them, as I've been making pens more then 3 years without them. I'm just hoping they might help improve my pen quality and could be a very useful tool as I begin to make more difficult pens.


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## cdbakkum (May 24, 2009)

John, it sure took you a long time to express your thoughts. Carl


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## texasfootball21 (May 24, 2009)

cdbakkum said:


> John, it sure took you a long time to express your thoughts. Carl



I appreciate it when members like John take the time to explain things to the rest of us. The tool is new to me and I believe he was making sure to effectively explain its purpose.


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## ldb2000 (May 24, 2009)

Joseph , I think Hank meant to use bushings to turn the blank down but then remove them for final sanding and finishing . If you try to turn the blanks down with out the bushings you stand the chance of messing up the inside of the tubes and if your not careful about how tight hold the blanks you can crack the blank when it gets thin at the ends .
Oh , and as for not needing calipers , for kit pens they are not needed but they really help get it right as far as a perfect fit is concerned .


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## texasfootball21 (May 24, 2009)

ldb2000 said:


> Joseph , I think Hank meant to use bushings to turn the blank down but then remove them for final sanding and finishing . If you try to turn the blanks down with out the bushings you stand the chance of messing up the inside of the tubes and if your not careful about how tight hold the blanks you can crack the blank when it gets thin at the ends .



Butch, 

I talked to Hank about it a few days ago and you are correct. I thought I would try it anyways but you bring up a good point about the insides of the tube. I didn't really think about that. Thanks for pointing that out. 

Do you think it could be done if I was careful about not applying too much pressure? 

I guess it wouldn't be a good idea. Too bad, I'll never be truly free of bushings.


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## ldb2000 (May 25, 2009)

I have done it on several occasions , mainly on my kitless work where there are no bushings for the pen that I am making . If you are careful about how much pressure you put on the blank with the tailstock and you take very very light cuts it can be done with out any real damage to the tubes or the blank , but be prepared to take five times longer to turn the blank down to the right size , you just can't put enough pressure on the blank to keep it from spinning if you get even a minor catch .


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## texasfootball21 (May 25, 2009)

ldb2000 said:


> I have done it on several occasions , mainly on my kitless work where there are no bushings for the pen that I am making . If you are careful about how much pressure you put on the blank with the tailstock and you take very very light cuts it can be done with out any real damage to the tubes or the blank , but be prepared to take five times longer to turn the blank down to the right size , you just can't put enough pressure on the blank to keep it from spinning if you get even a minor catch .



Sounds pretty tough. I guess I will just stick with the bushings. I definately feel like I have the capacity to make pens with a much better fit. Can't wait to try it out.

Thanks guys.


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## bitshird (May 28, 2009)

I use a Mitutoyo  6 in Dial calipers that was certified but that was done in 1998, but since they have carbide jaws, are kept in their case, and never been dropped, I still trust them. I also have a set of the digital calipers I got from O Rileys Auto parts for 20.00 they always bump an extra .0005 The odd part is all Dial or Electronic calipers can only certified to be with in .001 even the high dollar Starret's or Eatalon.


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## ldb2000 (May 29, 2009)

Just a quick note about the calipers that CSUSA sells for $17.99 . I wanted a digital caliper because my Starret dial caliper is getting harder for these old eyes to read easily , so I got this one and I must say it is a nice caliper for under $20 . I seems to be accurate to .001" as compared to my Starret . The good thing is it has an auto off feature , if you let it sit for 5 minutes it automatically turns itself off so battery life should be very good . Overall a nice caliper for a great price .


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## Randy_ (May 29, 2009)

ldb2000 said:


> Just a quick note about the calipers that CSUSA sells for $17.99 . I wanted a digital caliper because my Starret dial caliper is getting harder for these old eyes to read easily , so I got this one and I must say it is a nice caliper for under $20 . I seems to be accurate to .001" as compared to my Starret . The good thing is it has an auto off feature , if you let it sit for 5 minutes it automatically turns itself off so battery life should be very good . Overall a nice caliper for a great price .


 
I assume it will measure either Imperial or metric??
 
That is a good price.  The same item (064-6000)was $24.99 a year ago!!


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