# Marketplace Changes



## jeff (Dec 29, 2016)

Some changes will be occurring in the Marketplace, effective January 1, 2017.

The most significant change is that all use of the Marketplace will be *FREE*. 

*Within the next few days, you'll notice:*
Restructuring of the Classifieds, Premium Classifieds, and Deals forums
Elimination of the Vendor Catalog Forum
Revised Vendor Forum Policies
*1. Restructuring of the Classifieds, Premium Classifieds, and Deals Forums*

The Classifieds Forum will close, and the Premium Classifieds Forum will be renamed "For Sale" 
Use the For Sale forum when you are selling something for money
Personally owned or business sales are allowed
Repeat offerings are fine (be polite, don't flood the forum with your ads)
Claiming posts, questions/answers allowed

The "Deals, Trades, Gifts, and Wants" forum will be renamed "Trades, Gifts, and Wanted"
Use this forum for no cost transactions
You are giving something away for zero cost (you may ask for postage)
You are offering an even trade (you may ask for postage)
You are looking for a particular item to buy or trade
Claiming posts, questions/answers allowed

*2. Elimination of the Vendor Catalog Forum*


The Vendor Catalog Forum will be closed. The recommended alternative is to request a Vendor Forum (see below) and use a sticky post as your catalog.
*Note:* Vendor Catalogs were static posts that advertised a vendor's offerings. They were designed primarily for small vendors who did not have an external web site, but who did have a standard list of products they wanted to advertise.
*3. Revised Vendor Forum Policies*


Going forward, there will be no cost for a Vendor Forum
To be eligible, you must be an IAP member for at least one year, and sell through an external web site (stand-alone site, well-established eBay or similar store) or have demonstrated an active selling presence at IAP.
*Note:* Vendor Forums are a place for vendors to advertise, announce, help, and communicate about topics specific to the vendor's products, services, and business operations. See this post for more information.


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## jeff (Dec 29, 2016)

WHY? You might ask...

1 - Traffic in the Marketplace has declined over the last couple of years, due largely to other, free, advertising venues.  I'd like to level the playing field and make sure that sellers have equal motivation to advertise their wares to our members as well. Lots of us don't use Facebook, etc., and I think we're missing some deals.

2 - As far as any lost revenue, I am 100% certain that people who make significant amounts of money from their ads here will send a donation now and then and support our contests and activities. (Which many do even with a cost for ads!)


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## jeff (Dec 29, 2016)

A few logistics items:

1 - If you have already paid for a vendor catalog or vendor forum beyond Jan 1, let me know how much you'd like refunded and I'll send that amount to you.

2 - If you currently have a vendor catalog but not a vendor forum, and you would like a vendor forum, let me know and I'll create one and move your catalog there.

3 - I will move any active for sale ads from the deals and classifieds forums to the new for sale forum. If I miss yours, let me know.


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## magpens (Dec 29, 2016)

Hooray !!!!!!! . Worthwhile changes, in my opinion, Jeff. . A BIG THANK YOU !

It will be nice to see the "for sale" activity increase to what it was a few years ago.

It will be nice to be able to post to all "for sale" threads without having to send a PM for some.

I am sure that members represented in Vendor Forums will appreciate the new free exposure and consequent reduction in operating costs.
Our vendor members are a special bunch who, I am sure, will continue to respond, in the appropriate ways which you have mentioned, just as they have been doing up to now.


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## TonyL (Dec 29, 2016)

Sent.

Thank you for all that you ALL do.


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## liljohn1368 (Dec 30, 2016)

Thanks for what you do, Jeff. I don't envy you at all...


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## Herb G (Dec 30, 2016)

Jeff, your hard work is greatly appreciated here. This is _*THE BEST*_ pen forum on the web, hands down.


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## jeff (Dec 30, 2016)

Herb G said:


> Jeff, your hard work is greatly appreciated here. This is _*THE BEST*_ pen forum on the web, hands down.



Thanks! I agree with you, but it's because of our members.


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## jeff (Dec 30, 2016)

After a good question via PM, I added a little clarification to "sell through an external web site" above. I added "(stand-alone site, well-established eBay or similar store)"

The intent is that we have some indication that you are a legitimate business engaged in regular selling (here, or somewhere) of things related to penmaking. Vendor forums are a service to members allowing question, comment, and discussion related specifically to things you sell.

Hope that helps!


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## robutacion (Dec 30, 2016)

Hi Jeff,

You never stop to amaze me and I appreciate your understanding of what makes this forum run/breath.

Sometimes we have to go back to basics and make things easier for the "little guys", I have expressed multiple times my feelings towards the way the "sales" were done in the old days, something that I have missed considerably and I'm sure, other members will feel the same.

Those of us that have the most honest and clear intents about IAP, have always contributed to keep things rolling for the benefit of EVERYBODY, that won't change...!

Sometimes changes are necessary and sometimes we have to try things and get them time to define themselves as positive or not, you have always had the best at heart towards the members that form this family, one that you have created and nursed all these years, we "all" may have had something to do with its present status/success but you manage to navigate this boat smoothly and you always had my highest respect for that reason, thank you...!:wink::biggrin:

Cheers
George


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## jeff (Dec 30, 2016)

I've just cancelled all recurring payments for vendor forums.


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## jeff (Dec 30, 2016)

robutacion said:


> Hi Jeff,
> 
> You never stop to amaze me and I appreciate your understanding of what makes this forum run/breath.
> 
> ...



Thanks for your kind words, George! It's been my pleasure to help this community grow in whatever way I can.


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## geffre (Dec 30, 2016)

*Good Changes*

Thank you for reviewing how the site runs.  I agree that this is the best pen forum on the net!


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## Terredax (Dec 30, 2016)

So does this open the door to advertising throughout the forum, or will it be required to remain in the classifieds?
There are forums that allow constant advertising in threads, signatures, etc., and it has the effect of ruining a thread and the forum as a whole.


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## duncsuss (Dec 30, 2016)

Question about elimination of the Vendor Catalogs ...

My first thought was "how will this impact Rick Herrell?" and any other folks like him, who don't necessarily have their own store but are great resources and provide valuable services to the IAP community?


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## jeff (Dec 30, 2016)

duncsuss said:


> Question about elimination of the Vendor Catalogs ...
> 
> My first thought was "how will this impact Rick Herrell?" and any other folks like him, who don't necessarily have their own store but are great resources and provide valuable services to the IAP community?



From first post above:

To be eligible, you must be an IAP member for at least one year, and sell through an external web site (stand-alone site, well-established eBay or similar store) or have demonstrated an active selling presence at IAP.

The part in red qualified Rick and others. I've already been in touch with Rick and he'll be getting a vendor forum.


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## jeff (Dec 30, 2016)

Terredax said:


> So does this open the door to advertising throughout the forum, or will it be required to remain in the classifieds?
> There are forums that allow constant advertising in threads, signatures, etc., and it has the effect of ruining a thread and the forum as a whole.



Marketing and sales activity will continue to be allowed only in the Marketplace.

We do allow links in signatures and we always have. That's reasonably non-annoying.


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## Skie_M (Dec 30, 2016)

duncsuss said:


> Question about elimination of the Vendor Catalogs ...
> 
> My first thought was "how will this impact Rick Herrell?" and any other folks like him, who don't necessarily have their own store but are great resources and provide valuable services to the IAP community?




Jeff already addressed that ... 



jeff said:


> The Vendor Catalog Forum will be closed. The recommended alternative is to request a Vendor Forum (see below) and use a sticky post as your catalog.
> *Note:* Vendor Catalogs were static posts that advertised a vendor's offerings. They were designed primarily for small vendors who did not have an external web site, but who did have a standard list of products they wanted to advertise.



As you can see, their catalog will still be quite usable and visible.  All they need to do is request their own free Vendor Forum, and then sticky their catalog thread at the top of their own forum.  They can then use that forum for their own specific sales events and possibly contests, or new item offerings, as well as feedback from customers and friends.

In other words, yes .. the Vendor Catalogs themselves are going away, but they are getting upgraded to their own forum where they can still maintain their catalog at will!

I'm thinking that just to ensure that they are still around and offering their wares, they will be needing to request such a forum rather than have the administrators move their catalogs for them and face the possibility that those individuals are no longer in business.


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## duncsuss (Dec 30, 2016)

jeff said:


> ... or have demonstrated an active selling presence at IAP.



Sorry, I missed the word "or" when I read it. Thanks!


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## jeff (Dec 30, 2016)

Skie_M said:


> ... I'm thinking that just to ensure that they are still around and offering their wares, they will be needing to request such a forum rather than have the administrators move their catalogs for them and face the possibility that those individuals are no longer in business.



I will be making direct contact with all affected people.


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## jttheclockman (Dec 30, 2016)

I have been here a long time and lived through the advertising wars here and that was one of the reasons that you (Jeff) had to resort to the separate forums  off the main forum. The one thing is I hope with the more liberal way of going about this it does not resort back to having advertising for every forum. Whenever someone brings up a point about a particular kit we do not need to see a bunch of vendors jump in and start saying how they sell XX and XX. Do not need to see that again. 

I trust Jeff to do what is best for the site. He and the members have taken us this far and we can always continue to grow. Good luck and continued success.


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## jeff (Dec 30, 2016)

jttheclockman said:


> I have been here a long time and lived through the advertising wars here and that was one of the reasons that you (Jeff) had to resort to the separate forums  off the main forum. The one thing is I hope with the more liberal way of going about this it does not resort back to having advertising for every forum. Whenever someone brings up a point about a particular kit we do not need to see a bunch of vendors jump in and start saying how they sell XX and XX. Do not need to see that again.
> 
> I trust Jeff to do what is best for the site. He and the members have taken us this far and we can always continue to grow. Good luck and continued success.



We're not returning to that situation! The Product Reference Rules won't change. 

It's worth pointing out that vendors are the ones with the most information about their products, and those rules DO in fact allow vendors to respond to questions about their specific products anywhere on the forum. Outside of the Marketplace, vendors are not allowed to push their own products.

Because our vendors do have a lot to contribute, we created the vendor forums a few years ago to give them the opportunity to freely discuss their products. Pretty much anything the vendor wants to discuss is fine in their forums. Of course we still very much welcome their wisdom anywhere on the site, but in their own forums they don't have to worry about any rules.


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## jttheclockman (Dec 30, 2016)

Very good.


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## TonyL (Dec 30, 2016)

I personally enjoy and learn much from the vendor feedback; it has helped make me a better, more patient turner, aware of new kits, work-arounds and product pitfalls and saved me money (and time).  Perhaps, I feel that way because, I have not been turning as long as others. I also have no perspective on what it was like earlier, but I am assuming I don't have to read it.

I am not agreeing or disagreeing with how anything should be run - just stating that my own experience with most, if not all, supplier contributions has been very positive at least as it has existed over the last 3  years.


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## robutacion (Dec 31, 2016)

jeff said:


> jttheclockman said:
> 
> 
> > I have been here a long time and lived through the advertising wars here and that was one of the reasons that you (Jeff) had to resort to the separate forums  off the main forum. The one thing is I hope with the more liberal way of going about this it does not resort back to having advertising for every forum. Whenever someone brings up a point about a particular kit we do not need to see a bunch of vendors jump in and start saying how they sell XX and XX. Do not need to see that again.
> ...



Oh boy, what a relief it was to stop looking over my shoulder every time I would post something, that was the best think I ever experience on IAP and probably the only reason I continued to be part of this community.

It is true that sometimes we say things that take a completely different meaning by others and then the troubles start, I always thought that someone like myself would have a place somewhere in places such IAP, the vendors forum has given me/us tools that I rarely used, was never the "sales" that was important to me and I think that became obvious over time, was my kind/type/style of freedom of speech that I was desperately looking after, Jeff and some others understood that and the vendors forum was created.

Did it work?  Absolutely, it may have pushed away some of the opportunistic sales persons that were here for nothing else but who missed that...?

What is important to note and Jeff has just confirmed that is, the principles/rules/criteria of the vendors forums are the same, the only thing that has changed is that now, it's free

If you want to sell stuff here, simply request a vendors forum and you can talk about your products until the cows come home, is that simple...!:biggrin:

Cheers
George


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## jttheclockman (Dec 31, 2016)

I was starting to wonder when the cows were going to come home:biggrin:


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## Skie_M (Dec 31, 2016)

Don't ask Jeff Foxworthy ... he's too busy dancing with Patty .... 


There goes her shirt again!


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## Marmotjr (Jan 3, 2017)

Herb G said:


> Jeff, your hard work is greatly appreciated here. This is _*THE BEST*_ pen forum on the web, hands down.



Not only that, one of the best wood working related forums out there, and one of the best communities in general I've ever dealt with.   Thanks again Jeff!


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## Neil (Jan 4, 2017)

Thanks Jeff, we appreciate all the work that goes in to this site, some people probably don't realize the hours of work it takes you to keep the IAP going very smoothly I must say


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## rockb (Jan 4, 2017)

Thank you Jeff, changes are great.


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## jeff (Jan 6, 2017)

OK, folks, the Marketplace changes are done.

The classifieds forums have been consolidated into "For Sale"

The vendor catalog forum is closed (catalogs were moved to vendor forums)

Several new vendor forums are now active, so check them out!

By the way, did you know that you can get a feed on your front page of new threads in the Marketplace? Just go to your UserCP and under "Group Memberships" pick "Marketplace". You'll then see a new box in the center of the front page with the most recent marketplace threads.


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## jeff (Jan 16, 2017)

Our new marketplace structure has been in place for a couple weeks now. Any thoughts on how it's working? I have not received any complaints, and it seems clearer and more logical now.

Suggestions welcome!


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## Skie_M (Jan 16, 2017)

It's certainly looking like these changes are gonna stick pretty well!


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