# kreg jig?



## maxwell_smart007 (Dec 3, 2015)

Anyone have the kreg jig?  It's a bit pricey (and likely beyond what I can/should spend)...

How does it compare to a biscuit joiner? 

We need a vanity - I figure I could build one for about the same price, including the cost of the tool...


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## Jack Parker (Dec 3, 2015)

Which set are you looking at Andrew? I have had one of the R3's for years and bought one the K4MS master systems when Lowes had them on sale a few years ago before the K5 and Foreman came out. They both work great, the K4 is a little easier to use, both are flexible and capable.


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## Curly (Dec 3, 2015)

I have both. 

The Krieg is one of the sets before the vacuum attachment kind came out. They work as advertised and they will join narrower pieces than a biscuit. Fast and simple but not the strongest joints. 

My biscuit joiner is a Lamello that I bought in the early 80's. Very versatile and the joints are strong enough that an Oak screen door I made was still going strong after being slammed daily for 24 or so years. Took it with me when I sold the house.  The joints are also not visible unlike the pocket screws. 

If I could only get one tool for joinery it would be a Festool Domino. Best tool for all jobs including making chairs. Downside is the stratospheric price. Then again that's what the Lamello was like 35 years ago when I bought it.


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## wwneko (Dec 3, 2015)

The R3 works, but if you plan to use it much in the future I'd spring for K5 which is totally worth it IMO.  If you had the budget for a Domino that's what I would go with over all Kreg tools but very few have that kind of budget. The Domino IS my next LARGE ($) woodworking purchase, even if it's 4 or 5 years from now.  I wonder if someone will make something very similar in features but half the price by the time I get the money to buy one.


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## Indiana_Parrothead (Dec 3, 2015)

When you want to cut down on your build time the Kreig jig is much faster. Not clamping and waiting for the glue to dry. It is stronger joint in an end grain to face grain joint. But you are not going to use a Kreig jig to say glue up a table top, biscuit joints is what you want there. Both have their place.

Mike


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## Dan Masshardt (Dec 3, 2015)

There are some good dowel jigs on the market too.  

I'm on the fence with getting a kreg too.  I do not like visible fasteners for joints in nicer furniture but it's fine for some projects. 

Concensus seems to be extremely positive about them.


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## monophoto (Dec 3, 2015)

I have the simple (one hole) jig.

Made a new ironing board for the wife a couple of years ago that required joining two boards on edge.  It was easier to cut the taper before joining the boards, but that presented the problem of how to clamp the boards for gluing.  I used biscuits to do the joint, but then added pocket screws near the tapered end because there was no obvious way to clamp them together.  

Mattias Wandel did a video a few months ago in which he tested both biscuit and pocket screw joints for relative strength.  My recollection is that his conclusion was that pocket holes are convenient but relatively weak compared with biscuits.


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## brownsfn2 (Dec 3, 2015)

I love the kreg jig I have.  I have built a desk, a closet organizer, shop cabinets, pen chest, drawers, etc with mine.

I would not build a piece with it that I would sell as fine furniture though.  With the Kreg jig you will always be able to find the joinery.

A while ago I took a close look at how my commercial cabinets in my kitchen were made.  All of the face frame joints were pocket hole construction.  I thought it was just because I had cheap cabinets.  Then I bought a used cabinet from a custom builder in town.  Sure enough the face frame and the carcass was built with pocket holes.  You can  minimize their exposure and make a great looking piece.

So bottom line is that it is definitely worth it.  For the things you have to build it is much faster than other types of joinery.


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## ElMostro (Dec 3, 2015)

I have an older model, bought it in 2003 at a woodworking how.  Quite frankly in changed how I do joints forever.  It is east to use and set up for accurate joints and they are plenty strong.  I already had a biscuit jointer (BJ)but I have not used it since I got the Kreg jig. With the BJ I occasionally had alignment problems (probably operator error) and all the BJ does is help align the pieces but require glue and clamps to hold it together...and did I mention the wait time for the glue to dry.  With the kreg the screws bring and hold the joints together and in some cases where no loads are involved I don't even use glue and avoid the squeeze out that can mess up a good finish.  

They even have their own forum;  Discussion Forum - Kreg Owners' Community

I will eventually upgrade to one of the newer ones with a vacuum attachment but for now it still works great and I use it alot.


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## mg_dreyer (Dec 3, 2015)

Just so you know it is on sale:
The December Woodworker


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## Dan Masshardt (Dec 3, 2015)

mg_dreyer said:


> Just so you know it is on sale: The December Woodworker



Just the project kit or the full jig?


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## low_48 (Dec 3, 2015)

The Kreg jig is worth the money, but not always the best method to join wood. It can look bad, seeing a row of holes. If heavily loaded, the joint can fail by pulling a plug of wood from under the screw head. Always use glue wih the joint. I would suggest that you do a good cost analysis. Bathroom vanities can be very reasonable compared to buying all the wood, hardware, tools, and finish.


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## csr67 (Dec 3, 2015)

I love my Kreg Pockethole jig.  Best $40 I ever spent on a tool!  I use it all the time for basic jigs, cabinets, etc.. where the pockethole on the backside won't matter.  I promptly gave away my nice Porter Cable Plate Joiner after using the Kreg.


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## plantman (Dec 3, 2015)

Andrew;  I also have both screw and biscut systems. They both do the task they were intended to do, and it depends on the type of woodworking you intend to do, which one will work best for you. Everyone so far has given you advice on the Kreg Jig, So I will take the side of the biscut joiner and point out some of the features of this system. I have the Porter Cable 555 biscut joiner plus the Ryobi DBJ50 Detail biscut joiner. They both use 3 different size biscuts each, and are fully adjustable for size, depth, and angel of cut. One of the advantages of a biscut is that the cut is slightly larger than the biscut itself. This gives you a little wiggle room when putting together pieces. As the glue absorbs into the compressed biscut , it expands and forms tight fit in the slot. The wood will break before the biscut will loosen. You can join 45 degree angels on end and have a seamless hidden edge not possible with a screw system. You can join two boards at very small inside angles that you could not get your hand into. The Porter 555 will do any heavy duty jobs you have such as workbench tops or cabinets. The Ryobi DBJ50 is designed to do small projects in thinner woods. It has 5/8", 3/4", and 1" biscuts. Good for photo frames and small boxes. A much stronger way of making cabinets is to add gussets in the corners with biscuts, screws, and glue. This also gives you a place to mount your top to. If you are making this for yourself, I don't think speed is the most important element, quality would be the top objective. In the end, considering wood movement, nails, staples, and screws will loosen over time. Glue is your best bet, and when added to any of the other fasteners, will last the longest. When I build something that I may want to change sometime in the future, I use screws with no glue. I found this to be both time and material savings when finishing the lower level of my house. You know when you have worked hard all day, and suddenly out of nowhere this voice behind you says, " I think I would rather have that closet on the other side of the room". A lot quicker to unscrew the studs that beat them out with a sledge hammer, and you can reuse them. By the way, I have never used my my Kreg jig to build anything, when doing large projects I find the joiners much faster. One setting and your good to go. You don't have to measure, just mark both boards and cut the slots.  Jim  S


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## jttheclockman (Dec 3, 2015)

I echo what Jim just said. I too own the Kreg system and you have gotten good advice there. I have joined wood in just about every method possible. Each method has their advantages and also disadvantages or shortcomings. I rarely use the Kreg system but had to have it when I saw it and bought it at a woodworking show. Depending on the project the joining system used varies.

Speaking of the Ryobi biscuit joiner, I have that one also and that is the only Ryobi tool in my shop. It was the only detailed biscuit joiner on the market and I do not even think they make them any more. Home Depot used to sell the biscuits. They closed them out one year and i bought all I could from different stores. Not many to be found. That tool got a good work out with some boxes I made that had 3/8 " sides.


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## moke (Dec 3, 2015)

I have a problem with buying tools....I have the K3-k4 and K5....the K5 is awesome, a little more convenient, but the other two work fine too.  I also have a biscuit jointer, I really only use it for cabinets, for putting on the face frames, and then only one side ( I use a router slot on the plywood side).  I have read a couple of times about how eventually you can see where the biscuits are, because they swell over time in the created void and it shows through the wood.  Now, I have to tell you, I used to biscuit a lot and I have looked at my joints on things up to 20 years old and I don't see anything, but I read it on the internet, so it must be true!!!!  lol
On a couple of wood working blogs the Kreg joints are maybe looked at dimly because of the tell tale holes....but it's really easy and considerably quicker.   I don't even use glue anymore on the joints.  With plywood having such paper thin top ply, it is too easy to sand through, and if it is not glued, I can replace that panel very easily. 
I am from Iowa and so is Kreg...it's in Huxley and very much a family owned business.  The only downside to Kreg is their prices...they are proud of those products!  Overall they are good products well engineered, but they have some quirks too.  As far as the strange holes, just learn how to hide them as best as possible, and for the ones that would show, use a different method of joinery.
Just IMHO....


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## KenV (Dec 3, 2015)

For box cabinets like a vanity, hard to beat pocket screws.  They handle face frame and faceless cabinets with the screws inside where not visible.

For more general future use, there are other ways that will work on the current project, but probably not as simple and direct.


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## jttheclockman (Dec 3, 2015)

moke said:


> I have a problem with buying tools....I have the K3-k4 and K5....the K5 is awesome, a little more convenient, but the other two work fine too.  I also have a biscuit jointer, I really only use it for cabinets, for putting on the face frames, and then only one side ( I use a router slot on the plywood side).  I have read a couple of times about how eventually you can see where the biscuits are, because they swell over time in the created void and it shows through the wood.  Now, I have to tell you, I used to biscuit a lot and I have looked at my joints on things up to 20 years old and I don't see anything, but I read it on the internet, so it must be true!!!!  lol
> On a couple of wood working blogs the Kreg joints are maybe looked at dimly because of the tell tale holes....but it's really easy and considerably quicker.   I don't even use glue anymore on the joints.  With plywood having such paper thin top ply, it is too easy to sand through, and if it is not glued, I can replace that panel very easily.
> I am from Iowa and so is Kreg...it's in Huxley and very much a family owned business.  The only downside to Kreg is their prices...they are proud of those products!  Overall they are good products well engineered, but they have some quirks too.  As far as the strange holes, just learn how to hide them as best as possible, and for the ones that would show, use a different method of joinery.
> Just IMHO....




This is true if the biscuit is more toward the face. That is why many people favor the lower half of a panel and do not put it in the center. Just below center which allows a little more wood.


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## plantman (Dec 3, 2015)

jttheclockman said:


> moke said:
> 
> 
> > I have a problem with buying tools....I have the K3-k4 and K5....the K5 is awesome, a little more convenient, but the other two work fine too.  I also have a biscuit jointer, I really only use it for cabinets, for putting on the face frames, and then only one side ( I use a router slot on the plywood side).  I have read a couple of times about how eventually you can see where the biscuits are, because they swell over time in the created void and it shows through the wood.  Now, I have to tell you, I used to biscuit a lot and I have looked at my joints on things up to 20 years old and I don't see anything, but I read it on the internet, so it must be true!!!!  lol
> ...



Also many people use biscuts on particle, board which has no inherent strength to speak of, and will move, swell, or distort quite readily . 

JOHN ; All four Home Depot stores in our area carry and have in stock #0, #10, and #20 Ryobi biscuts at $7.97 per jar. 150, 125, and 100 pieces per jar.   Jim  S


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## maxwell_smart007 (Dec 4, 2015)

Thanks everyone!  I wish the K3 was still sold - the K5 has gotten a bit pricey for a tool with no moving parts!


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## tjseagrove (Dec 4, 2015)

Every furniture shop has one.

Our custom kitchen uses them a lot on the outside parts that are hidden between the cabinets once they were installed.  It is an excellent was to join boards at 90 degrees.

Every joint type has its purpose, this is one more.
57


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## tbroye (Dec 4, 2015)

I have both but use the Kreg to build a set of cabinet for our sunroom.  Used them on the Face Frames, the Doors (8) and the the boxes worked great us a little glue also.  I have use the Bisket Jointer to glue up board for table tops and raised panel doors.


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## twinsen (Dec 4, 2015)

Go with the PorterCable quick jig. It is build like a tank. It's all one piece, and it automatically adjust to the thickness of the wood.
THe k5 jig tried to be more like the quick jig but didn't quite make it. To bad Porter Cable doesn't advertise better. It really is a Superior product.
Porter-Cable 560 Quik Jig Pocket Hole Joinery System-560 - The Home Depot

Here's a good video of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehvSdDv5yfI

Material support is stupid simple since they designed the base to be the same thickness is a 2x4. see this post where this joker mocks the Kreg jig material support projects: Porter Cable Quick Jig Material Support (Eat your heart out Kreg!) - by ThorinOakenshield @ LumberJocks.com ~ woodworking community

Oh... and I built this with it: Built in Entertainment Center - by ThorinOakenshield @ LumberJocks.com ~ woodworking community
and this: LP Record Bin - by ThorinOakenshield @ LumberJocks.com ~ woodworking community
and this: Phase 1 Entryway: Solid Cherry Bench w/ Drawers - by ThorinOakenshield @ LumberJocks.com ~ woodworking community

Biscuit joiners are great too. They allow for slop, you can really dial in the join. But you have to let them dry as you are are well aware. So, if you have lots of joins, you need lots of clamps, or lots of time.


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## Dan Masshardt (Dec 4, 2015)

Interestingly enough in the midst of this discussion I found a brand new k4 for half price $50.). Couldn't resist


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## DLesan (Dec 4, 2015)

I own the K4 master system, one of their router tables and several of their clamps.  All are well thought out and very solidly constructed.  I am not a professional cabinet maker by any stretch of the imagination - but have had better than expected results using all of their tools.


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