# How many Sierra type pens can you make in a hour?



## reido737 (Aug 6, 2008)

Hello, just woundering how many Sierra type pens someone can make in a hour. Drilling blank, glueing tube, turnning, sanding and finish? Wood with just polish finish and acrylic?


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## leehljp (Aug 6, 2008)

Interesting question! I couldn't begin to answer for me. Maybe one in two or three hours. :wink:

You, and probably many others, approach this from a "production" point of view; I approach pen making from a "creative" point of view; and I am sure there are many "in-between" people here also. 

There are those that produce quality in quantity better than some of us can in our attempts at quality in slow motion. :biggrin: :wink:


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## turned_for_good (Aug 6, 2008)

Less than one if I want it to look good and be done right.


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## Brewmeister35 (Aug 6, 2008)

I have to agree with above two posts but it definitely is the easiest and fastest to make.


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## DocStram (Aug 6, 2008)

I'll be honest with you .... and I know this probably sounds crazy, but here goes ....

When I'm in my shop turning a pen, I purposefully slow myself down and take my good old time.  Sometimes, I'll even say to myself, "This kit cost me $9.00 (or whatever) so why do I want to rush through it just to get it done?"  

I guess for me, it's not just the product .... it's the process as well.  

Know what I mean?


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## Skye (Aug 6, 2008)

It's as simple and complex as quality vs quantity. Year and a half ago someone on here said they could knock out some outrageous number of pens a day at the same quality as I do at much, much, much longer a timeframe. He got all bent out of shape when I even suggested the idea that his work may not be up to muster, but what are you going to do. Personally, I've yet to see a pen that someone banged out, unlovingly, that I've really thought was a great pen.

Quick answer, probably 30 minutes if I can find all my tools. Personally, I wouldn't want to though. It's all where your priorities are.


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## Russianwolf (Aug 6, 2008)

No clue.

I cut blanks for about 6-10 pens.
Then I drill all the holes
Then I glue all the tubes
Then I trim all of them to length
Then I turn them and assemble them one at a time.

Since I do alot of the work in batches, I don't know how ong a single pen takes, and I don't worry about it. For me, working with wod in any form is a relaxation and if it can pay for itself, all the better.


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## turned_for_good (Aug 6, 2008)

reido737,

Without and backlash from anyone here, how many pens are you making per hour?  How far do you go in the sanding process and what kind of finish are you using?


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## DCBluesman (Aug 6, 2008)

Zero from wood.  One or two from acrylic.


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## maxwell_smart007 (Aug 6, 2008)

Four days....drill the hole...go fishing
glue the tube...go fishing
turn the tube....go fishing...
assemble...Apologize to SWMBO and leave the fishing rod and lathe alone for a while!


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## stevers (Aug 6, 2008)

reido737 said:


> Hello, just woundering how many Sierra type pens someone can make in a hour. Drilling blank, glueing tube, turnning, sanding and finish? Wood with just polish finish and acrylic?


 


Forty-Six and a half?? :biggrin::laugh::rotfl::bananen_smilies051::rotfl::laugh::biggrin:


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## Nick (Aug 7, 2008)

*Sierra time*

I just finished this one. It took about 1.25 hr. I did add some acrylic on each end
Koa blank
Nick


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## PenWorks (Aug 7, 2008)

A lot :biggrin:


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## airrat (Aug 7, 2008)

I would think it all depends on what glue you use to glue in the tube. Even CA needs some time to set up, even with accelerator. If doing acrylic you have to add in even more time painting the tubes and letting it dry. I tend to choose a few pens to make and do the batch method. That way I have them set up and ready to just put on a mandrel and turn.

I could do an acrylic faster then a wood with CA finish. Even corian needs time for the glue to cure unless you like your blank chipping. I would have to say I doubt I could start one right now and have it finished in 60 min. Plus at this time of night, I believe Kelly would have my head and the garage door would be locked and I pray I have enough bubble wrap to sleep on.:biggrin:


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## ldb2000 (Aug 7, 2008)

Reido , for most of us it's not about how many pens we can knock out in any given amount of time but that the pens we do make be the BEST quality that we can make .
That said I will spend up to several hours on one pen and charge accordingly depending on the type of wood and about an hour on one acrylic pen but when I'm done I have a pen that will have a close to flawless finish that wont wear off the first time my customer sweats on it and my acrylics have NO sanding marks and is as smooth as glass (even BLACK acrylics) .
Just remember that the pens you show reflect the craftsmanship that you put into them and the type of craftsman you are so if you want to hack out a dozen pens an hour please keep them to yourself and don't show them to anybody (I've had a hard time getting to show my pens to shops that have had hacks trying to sell their poor quality crap)
Sorry for the rant but I just had an upscale shop refuse to even look at my pens because some guy was in there before me showing his "Handcrafted" garbage , I felt so embarrassed as the owner told me that his shop only carried "Quality" jewelry and gifts .
As I left his store I handed him a Tru-stone Barron and a business card and asked him to check out my web site when he had the time and that some of us DO care about the "Quality" of our products


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## leehljp (Aug 7, 2008)

Adding another comment on this topic:

I have no inclination to speed up the process from my current slow motion speed, as I enjoy carefully observing each step and planning the next.

*HOWEVER, I have wondered how people who make a living at this do it. Or how do those of you who go to shows with large number of pens every month or two - how do you do this?* I know that some of you do it. So what is your average daily production?

It would take me a year to make enough - if I devoted my time to it - for only one or two shows. I probably could make 8 to 10 pens a day at the most, in mass production, and still hold it to a quality for selling. After a few days of this break neck speed, I would probably get burnt out.

So How DO you guys do it?


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## monkeynutz (Aug 7, 2008)

_How many Sierras in an hour?_  You *must* mean _How many hours for a Sierra?_ :wink:


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## cozee (Aug 7, 2008)

LOL!! I turn simply for the creative release and am not one to just decide, "Hey, I am going to turn a Sierra today." Sometimes it takes me days and even weeks to decide which blank to  use with a given kit. If the two do not flow, the look will not be right.


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## altaciii (Aug 7, 2008)

Depending on the material I'm using, ie solid wood, pithy wood, acrylic, antler, or bone, it could take up to two hours.  I like to take my time to make sure the cuts are right and I've used the section 0n the blank for best results.


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## reido737 (Aug 7, 2008)

Thanks for everyone chimeing in, I have not been turnning pens very long. I'm still trying to find my way around my own shop! But when in the grove so to speak, wood blanks much faster than acrylic. I do notice when rushing there are alot more blow outs. I also have wondered when at a show and see someone with 70,80,100 plus pens. holy crap! how long did that take. I have found doing things in stages works best-- cut ten blanks,drill ten blanks, tube ten blanks,turn, sand and so on. Some times tho, I just have to walk away because things are not going well!


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## rjwolfe3 (Aug 7, 2008)

I'm just speculating on this, but it is possible he is asking this question because he was asked to do a large order for someone and was trying to get a grasp on how long it would take him to do that.  Without knowing the original reason for the post, I think some of us are assuming too much.  That said, I think even production turners might have trouble making more then one or two an hour because of glue time and finish drying time.  Now if you took it in stages and then divide that by total time to say make ten pens, if might work differently.  I think most of us could cut, drill and glue 10 blanks in under an hour.  It might take a couple of hours to turn and finish that many, even if you do two per mandrel.  And once they are finished, I think they can be assembled in less then an hour.  Now this is all speculation because I have never production turned and it normally takes me days to complete a pen, because of so much other stuff going on.  This is all my honest opinion, feel free to ignore, lol.


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## reido737 (Aug 7, 2008)

turned_for_good said:


> reido737,
> 
> Without and backlash from anyone here, how many pens are you making per hour?  How far do you go in the sanding process and what kind of finish are you using?


Hard to say, If evrything is going my way--- 2 maybe 3. on wood 320,400 then 600 grit with friction polish. Acrylic, 320,400,600,1200,2400,3500,then plastic polish. This is just turning and finishing the tubes, not assembleing the pens.


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## leehljp (Aug 7, 2008)

reido737 said:


> Thanks for everyone chimeing in, I have not been turnning pens very long. I'm still trying to find my way around my own shop! But when in the grove so to speak, wood blanks much faster than acrylic. I do notice when rushing there are alot more blow outs. I also have wondered when at a show and see someone with 70,80,100 plus pens. holy crap! how long did that take. I have found doing things in stages works best-- cut ten blanks,drill ten blanks, tube ten blanks,turn, sand and so on. Some times tho, I just have to walk away because things are not going well!



I figured that might be where you were coming from. I have the same inquisitiveness also. And some of these guys DO turn a lot in much less time and do a GREAT job on them too!

How many times do we seen someone post 4 super looking pens done in one day or weekend. It takes me a week doing an hour or two a day everyday to do a fine pen. Not cost effective but sure is fun and rewarding.


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## Gagler (Aug 7, 2008)

I'm with many of the same posters here, mainly because my shop time comes in batches - thirty minutes here, an hour or so there, and every once in a while I get a couple of hours uninterrupted on a Saturday morning.  As a result, my process seems to go in batches, too.  I cut a bunch of wood blanks at one time for different kits and put them to the side, then the same for drilling and glueing them up.  Right or wrong, what works best for me on glueing is to glue them one night, let them sit for at least 12 hours or so and harden really well.

I will turn one or two pens at a time, and most of the time apply a CA / BLO finish.  I like for that to have a good chance to harden well vs. doing the "quick" thing before MM'ng the CA / BLO finish, so I then move these pens to a drying station I made where the pen tube fits over a dowel so as to not mar the finish (as well as free up my pen mandrel for those days I get more than an hour to turn).

So, in a long-winded answer to the question, I guess I can't do a pen in an hour.  Then again, other than when I first started turning pens, I never have been able to do it.


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## mrcook4570 (Aug 7, 2008)

Zero pens in one hour.  It takes longer than one hour for my glue of choice to cure when gluing the brass tube.  For that reason, I take the batch approach.  Cut and drill a bunch of blanks.  Glue a bunch of tubes in blanks.  Mill the ends on a bunch of blanks.  Turning and finishing is one at a time.  

Now, just the turning and finishing part - most wood sierras take me six to eight minutes with a CA finish.  Friction polish would take less time but also diminishes quality substantially.


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## ed4copies (Aug 7, 2008)

Regarding quality vs quantity:

After over a decade of turning and thousands of pens made, my current pens are higher quality and take far less time than the early efforts.

So for those who think speed kills quality, let me assure you I remove a quarter inch of plastic from a blank in VERY short order.  Meanwhile, those who practice the "sharp tool and LIGHT CUTS" are wasting time (IMO) on the plastic that will  COME OFF.  The only plastic that counts is the part that REMAINS ON the finished pen.  The stuff on my floor doesn't have to be pretty.

(I CAN make quite a few in an hour, if I need them for the show tomorrow!!)

Now, if I could SELL them, equally rapidly ------  THAT would be a TALENT!!!


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## its_virgil (Aug 7, 2008)

This is a recurring question we see here often.  And,  I'm sure,  most of us are asked that question often as well. I don't understand what it matters if I can make 10 per hour, or someone else makes 2 or others take hours or days for one pen. We each work at our own comfortable rate which we have found that insures no loss in quality (I hope).  If, as one suggested, that maybe a large order is in the making then I would say no matter how much lead time is had it will undoubtedly not be enough.  So, I'll just end with this,which many of you are probably tired of seeign,  but I'll still post it once again.

How Long Does It Take To Turn One of Those?

(A poem by John A. Styer—The Lathe-meister)

Do you mean…
not plant the tree, but find the wood,
just ‘see’ the piece, (as if I could)?
to find a highly figured burl,
a crotch, an eye, or pearly curl?

And once I spy it, perhaps buy it,
inventory, store, and dry it?
Then saw or cut it, possibly I kiln it’
glue, imbue with fill, or drill it?
You mean, that once I’m satisfied
it’s stopped the warps, checks, cracks, once dried?
And mounted on the lathe, to turn it,
(which takes much practice, just to learn it;
and then employ a gouge, or two,
or use a skew, which I don’t eschew,
to mold it, shape it (what’s your pleasure?)
by all means, I’m sure to measure,
then sand it smooth, please wear your mitts,
from coarse to fine, 10,000 grits,
then braze, or burnish, paint, or polish,
(the goal: enhance, and don’t demolish)?
Is that your question, start to end,
how long’s that path, its way to wend?
Or do you merely want to know how long it turned?
Ten minutes, or so.

do a good turn daily!
Don


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## PenWorks (Aug 7, 2008)

Thanks for posting that Virgil, I have never seen it. Guess I take to many naps :biggrin:


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## Mikey (Aug 7, 2008)

I almost NEVER do a single pen at once. if I only need one Sierra I will drill blanks for Barons or Gents. As long as I have half a dozen I'm golden. Figure half hour for drilling them all, 5 minutes for paint, 15 minutes for glue, then 1/2 hour for each turning/sanding/polishing. Assembly takes minutes once you realize how to align everything perfect before you press certain components. So really my answer could be 2, possibly more depending on how the lathe is treating me that day.

As to speed vs quality, there is a breaking point at which someone couldn't possibly produce quality in such a short amount of time. This is normally when you see pens being sold for $10 at a show. I can say for sure that I can produce a LOT faster now than I did when I started and have way better quality. Now, how fast you can go personally means you need to take a lot into consideration. Are you doing all the same material? Are you doing all the same color? Is your shop set up to where you can form an assembly type line, or do you need to keep walking to the other side of your shop to find a bushing? An efficently laid out shop can save one a lot of time over even the course of a day. Do you have a buffing setup for acrylic or do you sand through 12,000 mm and then polish by hand? I know I cut 1/2 hour off my per pen time when I got my Beall buffing setup. (and put it on a second lathe for production type speed) Wood will normally take me a heck of a lot longer because of my sanding and finishing process. I don't have to paint the tubes but do put coat after coat of finish and then sand in between every coat.


I guess what I'm trying to say is that you+shop+tools= total speed. (plus every tip and trick you learn from here can greatly increase efficiency. I'd rather take my time admiring the finished product than to admire the hole I just drilled.


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## Hosspen (Aug 7, 2008)

I like that one too, it really says a lot about our art and craft.
But I must say the sanding with mitts,
            Tends to scare me to "witts".


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## TBone (Aug 7, 2008)

An hour?  I've never made a pen in less than a week.  First of all, my skills aren't perfected and I tend to be very slow and methodical.  I'm also trying to learn and get better with each pen.  My goal is to get better, not faster.  If they happen together, great.  And shop time doesn't always come regularly or in long sessions.  Besides at 95+, I don't want to be in there too long at a stretch.


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## TellicoTurning (Aug 7, 2008)

Can't answer your question... I don't make the Sierra.

It generally takes me longer to decide what I'm going to make than it does to make it.
I always let my tubes dry over night after gluing so don't move very fast on any pen.


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## JimB (Aug 7, 2008)

I've made only about 50 pens and in the beginning I would think about how long it was taking me. Now I only think about the quality and continually getting better. Making the same pen often takes different amounts of time each time I make it becuase I'm learning along the way and sometimes varying my technique. 

The pen is done when it's done regardless of how long it takes.


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## btboone (Aug 7, 2008)

For large numbers of pens, you can set up and do the different operations of the pens in large batches. This alone saves tons of time because you don't have to relearn how to do each step properly, and you get to tweak in efficiency of that step instead of just going to the next step. You divide the number of pens made by the number of hours and it will be a lot more efficient than onesies. Once you get to that point, the critical path is usually selling the stuff rather than making it. That's a whole 'nuther art to master. I had a pretty good day today.:biggrin:


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## 1JaredSchmidt (Aug 8, 2008)

I do the way RussianWolf says. I never tried it but I have timed myself with one with wood. I could do about 5 in a hour.


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## DocStram (Aug 8, 2008)

*Hmmmmmm*



1JaredSchmidt said:


> I do the way RussianWolf says. I never tried it but I have timed myself with one with wood. I could do about 5 in a hour.




Jared ..... Jared ..... Jared .......... sigh.


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## 1JaredSchmidt (Aug 8, 2008)

Is something wrong Doctor? Is my brain going wacko?


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## maxwell_smart007 (Aug 8, 2008)

I think Doc's trying to tell you to slow down and have some fun with the process, J-dizzle!


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## OldWrangler (Aug 8, 2008)

I like the Sierras as they are easy to assemble and just the one piece of wood to turn. My timing would be as follows......

Turning on the lights in shop.....2 min
Turning on the 3 fans...............2 min
Finding a piece of wood to turn......2 min
Unloading the bandsaw table to get to the blade .....5 min.
Finding the cutting sled.....2 min
Cutting the blank to size......2 min
Getting a slight knick from bandsaw .....1 min
Going to house for a bandaid.....4 min
Cleaning off the drill press......2 min
Looking up the right drill bit size......3 min
Finding the right drill bit............2-5 min
Drilling the blank..........2 min
Looking for the right size brass tube.....2 min
Roughing up brass tube.....2 min
Finding the right CA to glue tube......2 min
Glueing the tube in the blank......1 min
Getting fingers unstuck from blank......2 min
Time for glue to set.............4-5 min
Looking up what bushings to use........2 min
Finding the bushings........5 min
Setting up blank on mandrel......2 min
Cleaning sawdust off of lathe .......3 min
Setting up to turn.....1 min
Turning blank.......2 min
Sharpen the gouge......2 min
Turning some more......3 min
Sharpen skew.......2 min
Turning to size.......2 min
Sanding blank.........10 min
Finishing blank with CA/BLO......10 min
Getting CA off fingers.......3 min
Cleaning off work bench for assembly.......3 min
Finding arbor press............2 min
Assembly of pen........5 min
Disassembly of pen......5 min
Correct assembly of pen....5 min
Quick buffing on wax wheel.........2 min

Hell, it looks like I can whip one out in about 130 minutes if everything goes as normal. That's a couple a day if I don't get caught by the TV or make too elaborate a lunch. And a couple of beers will make things look like they are going faster.


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## 1JaredSchmidt (Aug 8, 2008)

I usually go pretty slow. It took it me 25 minutes to turn a comfort pen today.


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## leehljp (Aug 9, 2008)

OldWrangler said:


> I like the Sierras as they are easy to assemble and just the one piece of wood to turn. My timing would be as follows......
> 
> Turning on the lights in shop.....2 min
> Turning on the 3 fans...............2 min
> ...



Hey, you left out the coffee breaks to get the glue off the fingers, and the coffee breaks to let the glue set up on the blanks, and the coffee breaks just cause you want one - not to mention the pit stops in between. :biggrin:


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## Daniel (Aug 9, 2008)

My list looks more like walk to shop
forget that I left kits on kitchen table.. return to house to get kits.
return to shop just in time to realize I need to go to the bath room... return to house.
Return to shop search for kits I laid down in a hurry, this can take anywhere from moments to 10 minutes. in the case of ten minutes return to house to find kits on back of toilet.
return to shop. well you get the idea. other than that we must be using the same shop. of course I am really good at moving everything from the table saw to the drill press just to insure I have to move it again. from the drill press to the lathe etc. etc.


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## redfishsc (Aug 9, 2008)

maxwell_smart007 said:


> Four days....drill the hole...go fishing
> glue the tube...go fishing
> turn the tube....go fishing...
> assemble...Apologize to SWMBO and leave the fishing rod and lathe alone for a while!




Well I be dern! Great minds think alike!



As far as how-many-per-hour, I cannot say. I tell my customers that a pen takes 1-3 hours to make, but in reality it's more complex than "man hours". 

As mentioned by some above, I do pens in batches unless they are a commissioned work. I drill 10-20.....go fishing:biggrin:...... trim the tubes and turn......go fishing:biggrin:.........spray them all with conversion varnish......go fishing:biggrin:........assemble (if they don't need a gloss buffing), go fishing:biggrin:..... take my wife on a much needed date night (she won't go fishing with me:frown....... Renwax them all, make price tags and info sheets...... then buy more kits.......


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## Randy_ (Aug 10, 2008)

I've got one pen I have been working on for a year and a half and it is still only half done!!:biggrin:


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## Mikey (Aug 10, 2008)

Randy_ said:


> I've got one pen I have been working on for a year and a half and it is still only half done!!:biggrin:



LOL, it took me a year to complete my stars and stripes pen. Also took a year to do an Afzilia X lay pen. Both are astounding to look at though. I now have a few others going on two years, but I have taken a year break.


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## redfishsc (Aug 10, 2008)

Randy_ said:


> I've got one pen I have been working on for a year and a half and it is still only half done!!:biggrin:




What's your hurry?:wink:


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