# Which Kits to Start?



## Bill Arnold (Aug 26, 2008)

I've been reviewing a lot of information on this forum and viewing some of the instructional videos prior to placing my first order for supplies.  It seems the consensus is for a newbie to start with Slimline pens and I've looked at the product information on PSI and CSUSA.  I've kept a wishlist on PSI so I don't lose track of where I am (that's been happening more with each birthday )!

PSI has Slimline and "Funline" Slimline kits.  CSUSA has Slimline and "Apprentice" Slimline kits.  Can anyone tell me the differences among these kits?

Thanks.


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## wizical (Aug 26, 2008)

I might be biased, but I prefer ordering my stuff from CSUSA.  They are very helpful and knowledgeable about the products they sell.  The Apprentice line is just beginner 24k pen parts.  They are good for learning, not for selling.  

I have dealt with PSI in the past and wasnt too fond of their C.S. Skills.  They seem to not know what they are talking about and not very helpful.  

IMO, go with CSUSA


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## Russianwolf (Aug 26, 2008)

Bill Arnold said:


> I've been reviewing a lot of information on this forum and viewing some of the instructional videos prior to placing my first order for supplies.  It seems the consensus is for a newbie to start with Slimline pens and I've looked at the product information on PSI and CSUSA.  I've kept a wishlist on PSI so I don't lose track of where I am (that's been happening more with each birthday )!
> 
> PSI has Slimline and "Funline" Slimline kits.  CSUSA has Slimline and "Apprentice" Slimline kits.  Can anyone tell me the differences among these kits?
> 
> Thanks.



The big difference in the platings. The funline and apprentice lines are less quality platings, while the slimline is better quality. Now you can still have issues in the slimlines with the cheaper platings (24k gold, etc. ) as they can wear quickly. 

If you want good quality only work with the best platings:

Chrome (cheap but durable)
Gold Titanium and Black titanium
Platinum and Rhodium

I buy my slims from Arizona Silhouette as he has the chrome slim for $1.75 each. You not going to find better quality for much less.


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## jerickson (Aug 26, 2008)

Ditto on the chrome slimlines from Arizona Sil. That's a great price, and it will wear better than the gold plating.


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## Hayseedboy (Aug 26, 2008)

You should make sure and order extra tubes so that you can practice without having to committ the kit.  If you order from BB at AS you must order kits to get the extra tubes.

But look at it like this (head tilted slightly to the left) tubes say 50 cents, cheap wood blank a buck.  If you don't like the results... pitch it and turn another.  This is definately a game of practice.  Why not practice the cheapest way.

Then when you have gotten where you are proud of your turning and finishing skills I would definately agree with the others that suggest better platings.  You want them to hold up even if you are giving them as a gift.  Right?

Larry


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## LEAP (Aug 26, 2008)

For what it's worth I would reccomend you start with the cigar. It's a more forgiving kit and easier to learn on. It does not require you to go so thin on the wood and in my humble opinion shows off the blank better. If you want to get some inexpensive kits to learn on woodnwhimsies has great prices and their service is terrific.


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## Hayseedboy (Aug 26, 2008)

I second the motion on Woodnwhimsie Tim and Tracy art tops. Ernie at Beartoothwoods has some good prices on cigars too. Both have great service and great people!

The cigar would be my choice to learn on too if I had known then what I know now. (which still ain't much

Larry


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## its_virgil (Aug 26, 2008)

For some strange reason there seems to be an underlying rule that new
penturners must start with the slimline and progress to other styles.
I don't necessarily agree with this thought process. Several nice pens
are quite easy to make...the sierra, elegant beauty, zen, and heck, even the statesman and gent, the jrs and the baron are easy; just to mention a few of many possibilities.I actually think the slimline is one of the more difficult pens to turn if it is turned as designed...a straight
body with a very very thin layer of wood. I wonder if this is why we see so
many slinlines with large bodies tapering to the bushings on the
ends...the ever so popular "wasp waist" pens. I'll stop my rhetoric
for now and wish you the best of luck in your new found hobby.

Do a good turn daily!
Don



Bill Arnold said:


> It seems the consensus is for a newbie to start with Slimline pens and


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## Bill Arnold (Aug 26, 2008)

Hayseedboy said:


> You should make sure and order extra tubes so that you can practice without having to committ the kit.  If you order from BB at AS you must order kits to get the extra tubes.
> 
> But look at it like this (head tilted slightly to the left) tubes say 50 cents, cheap wood blank a buck.  If you don't like the results... pitch it and turn another.  This is definately a game of practice.  Why not practice the cheapest way.
> 
> ...


Larry,

You make a good point about the extra tubes.  I added some to my list of items to order.  The tubes are certainly cheap enough and, since I'll be using "scrap" wood left over from other projects, it won't cost me anything!

I also agree with you and the others about better platings.  I'd hate to give someone a pen or pen/pencil set made from nice exotic wood, only to have them look bad over time due to a cheap kit!


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## markgum (Aug 26, 2008)

I would lean towards CSUSA.  The shipping from PSI is slower than molasses in January.


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## its_virgil (Aug 26, 2008)

Why buy from PSI? Ryan Polokoff at http://www.woodturningz.com sells all fo the PSI kits for less than PSI and may even carry other kits also. They are great, as are all of our independent suppliers, and ship quickly.
Do a good turn daily!
Don



markgum said:


> The shipping from PSI is slower than molasses in January.


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## el_d (Aug 26, 2008)

PSi is very slow. I started with the slim lines but Ithink I should have started with a sierra first. You can get twice as many pens out of the blanks. 
 I get my stuff rom earnie at Beartooth. He has a really nice chrome click I have been looking at.....


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## Skye (Aug 26, 2008)

its_virgil said:


> Why buy from PSI? Ryan Polokoff at http://www.woodturningz sells all fo the PSI kits for less than PSI and may even carry other kits also. They are great, as are all of our independent suppliers, and ship quickly.
> Do a good turn daily!
> Don




Yep, I like them. As far as I know, they can get just about anything that PSI caries but at a lower, or volume price.


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## Jarheaded (Aug 26, 2008)

I would suggest starting with an El Grande Streamline. It is all easy from there on.


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## jskeen (Aug 26, 2008)

Sure Johnnie, The right way, the wrong way, and the Corps way.  Why not make all the mistakes up front and get them out of the way.   

Seriously, I would start out with chrome slimlines, and plenty of spare tubes, and work my way up.  Slimlines may be a little more demanding in the turning phase, but spare tubes eliminate that problem, and they are very forgiving in the length and assembly departments.  Nothing more annoying than turning a nice looking cigar section just to find out that you got the bushings reversed, or that you trimmed that extra 1/16 of the lower blank and now the tip won't retract.  

James


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## Bill Arnold (Aug 26, 2008)

jskeen said:


> ...  Why not make all the mistakes up front and get them out of the way.
> 
> Seriously, I would start out with chrome slimlines, and plenty of spare tubes, and work my way up.  Slimlines may be a little more demanding in the turning phase, but spare tubes eliminate that problem, and they are very forgiving in the length and assembly departments.   ...
> James


Well, I'm certainly one for making mistakes! 

At this point, I'm planning to order a few chrome Slimlines and plenty of extra tubes for my first attempts.  I'm also looking at the Designer series since it uses 7mm tubes like the Slimline, so the only additional item I need is a set of bushings. 

Thanks for all the great input.  It's helping me decide for sure about my first order.


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## leehljp (Aug 26, 2008)

Slimlines have the _perception_ of being the "entry level" pens to pen turning, and the two lines you mentioned were introduced (IMO) to "entice" the beginner to start there. Nothing but a smart advertising ploy.

I used to think and recommend the slimline as the beginner's pen because of "price". But as I started doing other pens, I found most other pens were easier to make than a slimline. The slimline lines are cheaper for sure, but they are smaller and harder to fit, less forgiving for mistakes in putting together such as pressing the transmission in too far, having the nib end try to cant one sided splitting the blank. Trying to make two blanks straight from end to end in such a small diameter and within tolerances of fit - is not a beginner's strength.

Cigars, Sierras, Polaris/Carbara are much easier as a beginner's pen, IMO.


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## MobilMan (Aug 27, 2008)

Yes, Bill, the Designer is a nice pen.  My favorite & like the handling of it.  Very comfortable.  It's the same as the European at Woodcraft.  Be careful not to turn the tenon to wide.  A fraction narrower is better.  Also to keep from getting too much CA on the tenon & having it push out as you install the ring, Make a small notch [groove] at the base of the tenon, then if you get too much CA it will go in the groove instead of pushing out & getting on the fitting. And if you cut the tenon too deep the fitting will off-center when you put it on.  That can be a fairly snug fit. Just enjoy & have fun.


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## Bill Arnold (Aug 27, 2008)

MobilMan said:


> Yes, Bill, the Designer is a nice pen.  My favorite & like the handling of it.  Very comfortable.  It's the same as the European at Woodcraft.  Be careful not to turn the tenon to wide.  A fraction narrower is better.  Also to keep from getting too much CA on the tenon & having it push out as you install the ring, Make a small notch [groove] at the base of the tenon, then if you get too much CA it will go in the groove instead of pushing out & getting on the fitting. And if you cut the tenon too deep the fitting will off-center when you put it on.  That can be a fairly snug fit. Just enjoy & have fun.


Thanks, MobilMan, for your pointers about the Designer.

And, thanks to everyone for your input.  I'm looking forward to receiving my first supplies and turning a few pens.  I'll post some photos when I have something worhtwhile showing.

:wink:


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## fyrcaptn (Aug 27, 2008)

*yep yep yep nope ?*

To me it doesn't seem to matter where you order from all in all. (blasphemy??) 
I've bought at the stores and now order. Its cheaper to me, and I don't have to scour the ill stocked aisles or wish they had what I want. 
Practice practice practice. And expect problems. Some your fault, some possibly the kits, some the blank, and some ;well gremlins exist, and did I mention YOUR FAULT?! Read and follow the instructions and make sure not to get tubes switched!! They aren't all interchangeable.  
I don't just chuck the bad/oops/ dang it pens/tubes/kits. Each one is a learning experience so I try to learn all I can from each one. When I screw up I disassemble the things and see what I can learn. The $6 (+/-) transfer punch kit from HF as mentioned numerous times is among the best money I've spent! I've taken pens apart and put them back together and saved on one pen the cost of the punch set. I've had 'beautiful' blanks crack while finishing. Heat I believe ( any opinions??) and turned the tubes down and put them in new blanks. Cost me a blank ( they aren't all expensive - some of the nicest I've done I think were free wood).
I seem to find myself pairing nicer woods with more plain kits. not always but usually. Maybe a way to get 'balance' ? 
Turn what YOU like, and you'll learn to make what other people will want.
Good luck on the journey!


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## OLDMAN5050 (Aug 27, 2008)

Sir craft supply customer service is second to none and from experience I will use no one else.. unless it is a product that they don't have.. and I second the motion that start with the slim line and move up. the chrome at craft supply is very good an a good priced product. I make all of my give aways from these . born in Tifton ga. now a tennessee transplant. welcome to the group. a welth of info here....


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## Skye (Aug 27, 2008)

fyrcaptn said:


> To me it doesn't seem to matter where you order from all in all. (blasphemy??)



Well, that may change the more familiar you get with who you're ordering from and how the orders are handled whether it be shipping times or how you're treated if there's a problem with the order.

Places like *Penn State*, while it's nice that they are able to grow the craft as they do since they're so large, they're also a bit of the WalMart of penturning. While yes, they do fulfill their function, they're also somewhat of a faceless megamart. For some people, supporting that sort of a business is ok, others not.

Places like *Craft Supply* are similar to Penn State in that they are able to push out a nice color book for you to drool over, but they also have a presence in the turning forums online, which I think means a lot. They're able to interact with other turners, answer questions, pass along deals, etc. It shows a willingness on their part to connect with the customers.

Places like *Wooden Wimsies* or *Woodturningz* are able to act as a seller for Penn State and can get you the same items Penn State has in their catalogs but at the volume pricing rather than the higher, low volume pricing. I've found that Woodturningz will ship faster than Penn State too. I haven't ordered from WW yet.

People like *Curtis* (the cactus MAN) *Seebeck* was selling blanks a while back in order to help him raise money for a private adoption of his child. If that's not a reason to venture outside your normal mega vendor and spread the money around, I don't know what is. We also have a number of wood sellers here on this forum who are regular turners, regular members.

Sure, you can continue to fund the mega marts, but I don't see why you'd want to considering what's out there for the same price or even less.


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## Bill Arnold (Aug 27, 2008)

* fyrcaptn, *_thanks for your post._
_
To me it doesn't seem to matter where you order from all in all. (blasphemy??) 
_I've spent many hours comparing prices among vendors.  In time, people develop their individual preferences for a variety of reasons.  If I really get the "fever", I'm sure I'll do the same thing.  I will not say which vendor I'll most likely place my first order with for obvious reasons. :wink:

 _I've bought at the stores and now order. Its cheaper to me, and I don't have to scour the ill stocked aisles or wish they had what I want.
_I've ordered a lot of stuff online over the years, even when living in a larger city.  From where we live now, it's a minimum 6-gallon round trip to the nearest store where one can find woodworking supplies and that's HF! 

_ Practice practice practice. And expect problems. Some your fault, some possibly the kits, some the blank, and some ;well gremlins exist, and did I mention YOUR FAULT?!
_Amen, Amen and Amen! :frown:

_The $6 (+/-) transfer punch kit from HF as mentioned numerous times is among the best money I've spent! I've taken pens apart and put them back together and saved on one pen the cost of the punch set.
_That set is $7.99 now with an additional $6.99 shipping! (Ouch!!!)  Methinks I'll work up a bit more of an order before placing it! 

_I've had 'beautiful' blanks crack while finishing. Heat I believe ( any opinions??)
_Heat generation makes sense and gives me yet another thing to watch for while turning pens. (Thanks!  All I needed was one more thing to think about!) :hypnotized:

_Cost me a blank ( they aren't all expensive - some of the nicest I've done I think were free wood).
_All of my blanks will be leftovers from other projects, at least initially.  I have cherry, black walnut, claro walnut, myrtle, jatoba, bloodwood, figured maple, wenge and even some teak.  I also have a good supply of veneers to use as accents for some stacked woods.  It'll be a while before I invest in "store-bought" blanks. :smile-big:

_I seem to find myself pairing nicer woods with more plain kits. not always but usually. Maybe a way to get 'balance' ? 
_Sounds like a plan!  I've also thought about pairing things like cherry and maple on a pen -- one on the top segment and one on the bottom -- to add interest.  Lord knows, I could use a little more "balance" considering how "un" I seem at times!  :yin-yang:

_Good luck on the journey!
_Thanks!  I'll need plenty of that, for sure (along with a few  :beer!!

:cowboy:


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## gpgsm (Aug 27, 2008)

Thanks Bill, 
 for having made the demand and thanks to everyone for all the answers. 

 There are also new and I've never turned a pen, I'm very interested in the topic. 

 Sorry, but I did not understand who they are PSI, CSUSA and if I buy it from American sites with dispatch in Italy. 

 Thanks to all


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## Russianwolf (Aug 27, 2008)

gpgsm said:


> Thanks Bill,
> for having made the demand and thanks to everyone for all the answers.
> 
> There are also new and I've never turned a pen, I'm very interested in the topic.
> ...



Massimo,
   PSI is www.pennstateind.com
   CSUSA is www.woodturnerscatalog.com
   AS is www.arizonasilhouette.com

Some of the US suppliers will ship overseas, some won't.  But for those that won't, there are members here on the site that will drop ship it for you. Place your order and have it delivered to the member, then the member ships it on to you with you paying the extra postage. You pay a bit more for shipping, but if they have what you need you can get it.

I've shipped orders to MitchM (Mike in South Africa) when he needed something from  Arizona Silhouette and the Wood Pen Pro Group Buy I ran.


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## Bill Arnold (Aug 27, 2008)

Russianwolf said:


> Massimo,
> PSI is www.pennstateind.com
> CSUSA is www.woodturnerscatalog.com
> AS is www.arizonasilhouette.com
> ...



Massimo,

I checked the websites.  PSI and CSUSA ship internationally.  AS does  not.

Typically, finishing supplies, some adhesives, etc., require ground shipment so they cannot be shipped outside the US.


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## gpgsm (Aug 27, 2008)

Then if I will have some problems with shipments will try to ask you. 

Now I just decide I need to buy .. I think it is the most difficult, but thanks to you I'm sure of being able to succeed...

 Thank you very much!


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## arjudy (Aug 28, 2008)

I would start with the cigar pen. Bigger diameter and not turning so close to the brass.


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## Skye (Aug 29, 2008)

Problem with the Cigar is that you need to watch that center bushing. In the beginning I made every mistake you can make with a cigar kit. reversed the barrels, had the bushing turned wrong, etc.

I'd just go with a slimline kit. If you find it too easy, omit the centerband and go for a more custom pen.


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## Joe G (Aug 29, 2008)

Hayseedboy said:


> I second the motion on Woodnwhimsie Tim and Tracy art tops.



I have purchased from woodnwhimsies and I have to say they are:
VERY QUICK ON FILLING ORDERS AND SHIPMENTS
VERY RESPONSIVE
EASIEST TO DEAL WITH
CUSTOMER RELATIONS ARE THE TOPS

They even work to save you money on shipping. 
I was looking at my visa bill and found a $5.05 credit from these guys because they fit my items in a smaller container, I have never encountered a refund from anyone on shipping charges.

I will keep looking around, but until I find someone better to dealwith, these guys get my business.


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## heinedan (Aug 29, 2008)

*Starter Kits*

I buy some of my pen kits and blanks from WoodPenPro.com. Outstanding service, and very good prices. I would suggest you check them out.

dan


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