# Lathe vibrating " HELP "



## Chief Hill (Dec 4, 2009)

Ok everyone got a question here and need advice/help from all the experts here to better understand whats happening here.
I use a Cheapo Mini lathe no name brand variable speed. Now this late uses a # 1 MT and has been great so far.  But my issue is with the loud pitch vibration resonating effect that occurrs while turning items that get closer to the tail stock, FYI this vibration only happens when turnining using razor sharp tools.  No vibrations and smooth turning at the head but it gets worse and louder the closer I get to the tailstock its almost like a resonating effect that gets bad enough to cause materials to explode off the lathe when turning somewhat sensitive materials.  I checked the mandrel and it seems to be slightly off and not PERFECTLY straight hard to see it but it is a bit. It also seems that if I can get egg shaped turnings when I get closer to the bushings not at the head but close to the tail stock (egg shapped is exagerated but using that term as an example.  
Now To test I coated one of my old bushings in Dyed ca Glue and ran the lathe mid point on the mandrel and just slightly touched the bushing with a skew to remove some of the CA.  Sure enough it removed glue from about 1/2 of the bushing and didnt touch the other side.  So could that be whats causing the major vibtrations when turing? 
I only have the 1 A mandrel so I can't "test" to see if that's the issue.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.  And I am not buying a new lathe yet LOL I know someone will say to do that....


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## ed4copies (Dec 4, 2009)

Vibration is like forest fires,   "Only YOU can prevent it!"


My quick suggestion, bring up your tailstock and tighten it, with the lathe running.  The mandrel will be "seeking center" due to centrifugal force, help it find center and lock it there.  (MAY help)


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## David M (Dec 4, 2009)

if its at the tail stock end , how are the bearing in the live center . if you turned something like a bowl or plate with out tail stock ... could it be in the tail stock ?


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## Chief Hill (Dec 4, 2009)

Nope live center works well.


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## hilltopper46 (Dec 4, 2009)

That's somewhat normal. I notice the same thing.  The harder the material is the worse the problem is.  Slowing the lathe down might help some, especially when doing 'sensitive' materials. IMHO the problem has to do with the comparable mass and rigidity of the headstock compared to the tailstock.


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## Daniel (Dec 4, 2009)

I had a problem with tail stock alignment on my old lathe. I dealt with it as Ed suggests. I woudl get everything set up then flip on the lathe. then quickly loosen and re tighten the tail stock. This allowed the tail stock to find it's own center. this worked unless I applied to much force for one reason or another and the tail stock could be nudged out of alignment. turning often meant a series of loosening and re tightening the tail stock. twas a real pain but it worked and as long as I paid attention my turning came out round.


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## Daniel (Dec 4, 2009)

hilltopper46 said:


> That's somewhat normal. I notice the same thing.  The harder the material is the worse the problem is.  Slowing the lathe down might help some, especially when doing 'sensitive' materials. IMHO the problem has to do with the comparable mass and rigidity of the headstock compared to the tailstock.


someone posted a link the other day to a demo of a sherline lathe. the answer to chatter (Vibration) was speeding up not slowing down. faster turning, faster feed of the tool or deeper cut all eliminated chatter. I don't recommend deeper cuts when it comes to pens. the thin material will only take so much stress. but moving the tool faster or increasing lathe speed might be worth a shot.


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## Chief Hill (Dec 4, 2009)

ed4copies said:


> Vibration is like forest fires, "Only YOU can prevent it!"
> 
> 
> My quick suggestion, bring up your tailstock and tighten it, with the lathe running. The mandrel will be "seeking center" due to centrifugal force, help it find center and lock it there. (MAY help)


 

Ok I did it. FYI i turned the lathe on before locking in the mandrel and it waves off over an 1/2" in a "wobble" so it way off center,  locking in the tailstock seems to keep it straight but the mandrel must be off/bent a bit causing an issue here.  

I think I need a new mandrel.

Anybody got a new A mandrel they want to sell.  Maybe an adjustable one would be a good idea.


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## ed4copies (Dec 4, 2009)

If it rotates and does not seek center, I would look at the headstock morse taper.  Is it sloppy??  

IF you have a drill head (Jacob's) chuck, can you put a long drill bit in and see what happens at the tailstock end???

BTW I recently bought 3 more jacobs chucks at Harbor Freight ($5.99 ea) #2 morse taper


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## ed4copies (Dec 4, 2009)

Chief Hill said:


> Ok I did it. FYI i turned the lathe on before locking in the mandrel and it waves off over an 1/2" in a "wobble" so it way off center,  locking in the tailstock seems to keep it straight but the mandrel must be off/bent a bit causing an issue here.
> 
> I think I need a new mandrel.
> 
> *Anybody got a new A mandrel they want to sell.  Maybe an adjustable one would be a good idea.*



Many of them will separate from the morse taper, you can buy just the rod at WoodCraft (and probably others) <$5


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## 1080Wayne (Dec 4, 2009)

Not too hard to straighten . With tailstock off , turn head until the mandrel end is at the top of it`s arc . Give it a light downward tap . Repeat process until there is no visible wobble .


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## Chief Hill (Dec 4, 2009)

I have new a B mandrel and I will see how it works.  I need a new A mandrel regardless.  I typically like buying stuff like that from guys here as they have good stuff.


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## Larry in Harrow (Dec 4, 2009)

Hi Rob,
If you can disassemble the mandrel strip it down to just the rod (pull the rod out of the MT adaptor).  See if the rob rolls free on a flat surface.  A straight rod will,  a bent one won't.


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## Smitty37 (Dec 5, 2009)

If you have been using the same mandrel for applying finish which takes a lot of pressure the rod is probably bent.  It is probably replaceable.  I think the answer is to get another mandrel and use one for turning and the 2nd one for applying the finish.  At least that's what I am going to try.


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## leehljp (Dec 5, 2009)

This is a great opportunity to forgo the use of that which creates so many problems - the mandrel!


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## Rifleman1776 (Dec 5, 2009)

Try turning something without a mandrel.


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## WoodWizard (Dec 5, 2009)

ed4copies said:


> Vibration is like forest fires, "Only YOU can prevent it!"
> 
> 
> My quick suggestion, bring up your tailstock and tighten it, with the lathe running. The mandrel will be "seeking center" due to centrifugal force, help it find center and lock it there. (MAY help)


 I have found that works for me very well.....I was turning the otherday..and had just gotten done sharpening the skew( while turning...lathe still on) and i went back to turn...and had real BAD vibration. well i relized at that moment...its probably not a good idea to have the grinder on the same bench as the lathe. the one side of the grinder wheel is out of alignment...and wobbles real bad( this is what happends when one drops the grinder..).....but back to the tailstock.....yes this works when i have small vibration


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## WoodWizard (Dec 5, 2009)

hilltopper46 said:


> That's somewhat normal. I notice the same thing. The harder the material is the worse the problem is. Slowing the lathe down might help some, especially when doing 'sensitive' materials. IMHO the problem has to do with the comparable mass and rigidity of the headstock compared to the tailstock.


 Harder material due to having more ( hardner in a certain batch) is this what makes certain arcylics turn like butter and some like stone....


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## Chief Hill (Dec 5, 2009)

Thanks for All the tips. I need a new mandrel for sure. It's not 100% true but close.  Tailstock is fine.  Live center is ok as well.  Turning between centers, not with this lathe as I don't have the appropriate stuff for it.


I think it's clear tge harder the material the more the vibrations.


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## KenV (Dec 6, 2009)

I have one of those cheap MT1 lathes on tubes (Ryobi label - also sold by Grizzley for a while) -- the MT1 on the tail stock had two problems -- it needed to be reamed to seat the live center (I was using a oneway) and the tip needed to be cut off the tooling for the tailstock because it did not have the depth.   After those two actions, much better behaved.   Have now move up and am junking that one out.   Need a tailstock???

the MT1 in the headstock was threaded 1/4 by 28 and would unscrew for replacements.


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## Mac (Dec 6, 2009)

My vote is a bent rod also. 
You are using a MT1 60 degree live center on tailstock right, not the live center that came with lathe?


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## Chief Hill (Dec 6, 2009)

Mac said:


> My vote is a bent rod also.
> You are using a MT1 60 degree live center on tailstock right, not the live center that came with lathe?



I am using the live center that came with my lathe 
Mack.  I have not bought anything aftermarket for this thing $140 for the lathe brand new.  I hardly want to customize this low cost lathe.  If it was a delta, or Jet it would be a diffrent story.  Seeing as one day I will go to a better lathe @ a # 2 Mt I won't spend money on this one. My better half has been VERY supportive of my hobby, (mini business) untill she saw the credit card statement LOL...
 But due to lack of shows here, (all booked) or (they suck) or my major one tgst I spent $800 in stock and stuff to get ready for got CANCELLED..... I have a lots of stock 150 pens and little return in at this point.  Now my wife has put down her foot and said no more $$$$$ into turning untill I get into shows start moving some product and pay off the credit card that is almost racked getting into this hobby/addiction/obsession.  Lol. Now I would like to go to an adjustable A mandrel with # 1 MT as it will likely help reduce vibration as I won't need to add tons of spacers.  But if the wife sees me buying more stuff I am a dead man.  I guess she wears the pants in this house eh! wow!  She is 5'2" 120lbs. I am 6'4" 270lbs.  Why is she in charge?


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## hunter-27 (Dec 6, 2009)

While there are many, many, possible reasons for your problem (in fact I'll bet you have multiple causes), the most likely one is a bent mandrel. That alone is going to solve some, but I'm guessing not all of the issue. If you need to, maybe an old fashioned "door to door" approach might be needed to move some inventory. The sooner you upgrade your equipment, the sooner you will be much happier. This is of course an opinion, others may and most likely will differ from mine. :wink:


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## KenV (Dec 6, 2009)

PM me with your mailing address as I have some MT1 tooling that I have not used since parting the old ryobi MT1 lathe.   I expect there is a live center or two with a better point for your use.  

I suspect you have a long point on the live center and have not had a good fit into the machined end of the mandrel.  A good look with will tell you if you have something other than a smooth machined socket to hold the live center.  

The MT1 sockets are easy to get crud accumulations and do need to be lightly cleaned from time to time.   

I am traveling this week, but will try to get something posted before I get on the airplane.


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## Larry in Harrow (Dec 6, 2009)

Rob, chuck the darn mandrel, turn between centers. #1MT dead center at KBC, part #7-560-005 @$4.62 in carbon steel or if you want to splurge part#7-555-005 @$7.36 in high speed steel. Pocket change, bypass Timmy"s and buy the center.


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## Chief Hill (Dec 6, 2009)

Larry in Harrow said:


> Rob, chuck the darn mandrel, turn between centers. #1MT dead center at KBC, part #7-560-005 @$4.62 in carbon steel or if you want to splurge part#7-555-005 @$7.36 in high speed steel. Pocket change, bypass Timmy"s and buy the center.



Ya know what Larry.  I will give that a shot.  Ken from Alaska has been generous enough to send out a couple items that may work well with turning by center.  I won't bypass the Timmys (lol) but I will order a proper dead center from KBC. 
I just always liked doing it all on a mandrel as your able to do an upper and lower simultaniously where you can't between centers.   
but it's about time to try.
Another thing I don't understand why the majority of pens Bushings arnt done by using a B mandrel. Simply said It's larger thicker diameter. So why is 90% of the kits using a flimsy little A size mandrel?


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## Larry in Harrow (Dec 6, 2009)

Chief Hill said:


> Another thing I don't understand why the majority of pens Bushings arnt done by using a B mandrel. Simply said It's larger thicker diameter. So why is 90% of the kits using a flimsy little A size mandrel?


 
Less wasted material when you throw them out?


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## Chief Hill (Dec 6, 2009)

Larry in Harrow said:


> Less wasted material when you throw them out?



Lol...  Very cute...  But honest answer.


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## KenV (Dec 6, 2009)

Some with metal lathes use a boring bar or a reamer to make bushings fit the larger mandrel.   That does provide more heft -- and where available (as in cigars and a few others) it is good practice to use the heaver rod.  (boring bar allows the hole to be true concentric to the outside and does not perputuate any machining error on the bushings).

The 8 mm mandrel does not make it for slim lines and similar 7 mm based pens.

I suspect the similicity of stock makes it more common to have just the "A" bushings.  

Rob -- box should mail Tuesday and be there next week. Do get one of OneWay's PenTurnng tips for the live center and it will be prime for turning without a mandrel.

Pen Turning Point 3673 $8.95 

http://oneway.ca/spindle/live_center.htm#pen_point


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## Mac (Dec 6, 2009)

Chief Hill said:


> I am using the live center that came with my lathe
> Mack.  I have not bought anything aftermarket for this thing $140 for the lathe brand new.  I hardly want to customize this low cost lathe.  If it was a delta, or Jet it would be a diffrent story.  Seeing as one day I will go to a better lathe @ a # 2 Mt I won't spend money on this one. My better half has been VERY supportive of my hobby, (mini business) untill she saw the credit card statement LOL...
> But due to lack of shows here, (all booked) or (they suck) or my major one tgst I spent $800 in stock and stuff to get ready for got CANCELLED..... I have a lots of stock 150 pens and little return in at this point.  Now my wife has put down her foot and said no more $$$$$ into turning untill I get into shows start moving some product and pay off the credit card that is almost racked getting into this hobby/addiction/obsession.  Lol. Now I would like to go to an adjustable A mandrel with # 1 MT as it will likely help reduce vibration as I won't need to add tons of spacers.  But if the wife sees me buying more stuff I am a dead man.  I guess she wears the pants in this house eh! wow!  She is 5'2" 120lbs. I am 6'4" 270lbs.  Why is she in charge?



I too started with a cheap lathe MT1 , messed up my first mandrel ,cause I did not buy a live tail center to fit it. I replaced shaft and bought a MT1 60 degree live center from Grizzly. I did this ,not because I wanted to stay with a MT1 lathe the rest of my life but to insure my quailty of work . And am going to keep this small lathe to carry with ,if I go anywhere to do a demo or turn at craft shows,as it don't weigh but 49lbs. and is vari.speed.
I am sure that someone smarter than me can tell you why ,your bought with lathe tailcenter ,will not fit your pen mandrel, I have been told and also read that it (pen mandrels)have a dimple in them that fits a 60 degree center. So buying a mandrel without buying a 60 degree live center will put you in the same boat your in now. 
I would replace rod (woodcraft) less than $10 bucks you might even get free shipping,and buy a 60 degree live from grizzly(model H3407 MT#1 $8.95) 

Can't help with the wife ,I have my own and she is  very supportive.
Go sell some pens , Make her carry some to work, tis the season to sell them


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## leehljp (Dec 6, 2009)

Chief Hill said:


> I am using the live center that came with my lathe
> Mack.  I have not bought anything aftermarket for this thing $140 for the lathe brand new.



THAT is as much your vibration problem as a bent mandrel! The mandrel is metal! The live center that came with the lathe is meant for wood! A new mandrel will not solve your vibration problems.

The cup in the end of the mandrel is reamed out to 60° and requires a 60° (a metal lathe standard) center to fit into it. The stock LC is NOT 60° because it is made for wood. The point of the stock Live Center does not fit correctly and allows for a lot of slop - hence vibration, or at least adding to the vibration.

Try not to think that just because wood is being turned on the mandrel, that it can use a "made for wood" live center.


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## Randy_ (Dec 7, 2009)

ed4copies said:


> Many of them will separate from the morse taper, you can buy just the rod at WoodCraft (and probably others) <$5


 
Be careful with this!!  Last I knew, Woodcraft used a different threading on their mandrels (10x32 as opposed to the more common 1/4x28) so their mandrels will only fit their own arbors and not those of other vendors.


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