# I am certainly not a doctor....



## ladycop322 (Aug 26, 2014)

but wanted to throw this out to all you members...

Something to ponder:

While in the hospital last week due to neck pain from a bad chiropractic adjustment, the docs thought I had a Vertebral Arterial Dissection due to my symptoms.  After many, many CT Scans, MRIs and MRAs, the outcome for dissection was negative Thank God!

While performing these tests, radiology reports found dense bilateral basilar condensation in my lungs, aka pneumonia.  I did not present with any symptoms prior to learning this.  

I was wondering....is it possible that it was not condensation they saw but dust from the wood and acrylic from turning?  I mean, I do not have a vacuum set up to suck up dust nor do I wear a mask.  So, maybe those particles are actual build up of dust from inhaling and not pneumonia....

Anyone have an opinion on if this could be a possibility?  And yes, I will now be wearing a mask until I can find someone who can help me set up a vacuum system to suck up the majority of the dust when turning....

Thank you in advance for your time.  Have a blessed week....and happy Hump Day tomorrow!

Michelle


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## Tom T (Aug 26, 2014)

What help me the most with the vacuum was getting a wirer less remote switch.  That way I turn it on every time just before I start.  I keep it right on the vacuum hose. And a washable plastic dust mask with Velcro tying works great also.  Being in Florida I have a very small fan that blows a very slight breeze in my face so my safety glasses do not fog up due to perspiration from the mask breathing up under the glasses.  Also safety glasses come in readers of different powers for your eyes if they need correction.  Hope that helps.  Tom


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## ladycop322 (Aug 26, 2014)

Thanks Tom...sounds foreign to me since I have no idea how to set one of them up....I will have to look for a handy man or someone to come help me....

I have a huge shop vac and did buy a contraption that is supposed to hold the hose but no idea how to make it all 'hold'...I'm am not mechanically inclined and have no idea how to even begin...lol

Michelle


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## Tom T (Aug 26, 2014)

I just bought a vacuum extension kit at WC before I went on vacation.  Have not set the new flex hose up yet.  What I had was a pain and involved duct tape.  I do A/C work.  Anything can be fixed with duct tape.  I worried a little about it getting  sucked into the lathe and dragging me in with it so I am hopeful the new device will work better and safer.  It looks like it will.  The wife and I get home from vacation tomorrow.  I will see if I can get it hooked up and get you a photo of it.  Plan not to be impressed.


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## stonepecker (Aug 26, 2014)

Even having a fan blowing away from the work area will help move the dust away from your face.  That is the very least I would do.  Even working outside, I have a fan blowing away the dust.
I also wear hearing protection and a face shield.  You can never be to safe.


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## BW Design Works (Aug 26, 2014)

Don't know if you have the tools or supplies to make this but Curtis posted this a while ago http://www.penturners.org/forum/f30/darn-near-perfect-penturning-lathe-dust-collection-52714/

This would help a lot.


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## commercialbuilder (Aug 26, 2014)

I just want to comment on the bad adjustment that caused the neck pain.
I know about 2 people that have died from having a chiropractor adjust their neck, both times a vein was ruptured causing a slow leak into the brain. Both people had very bad headaches for a couple of days then died. My Nephews wife also was adjusted and she ended up in the hospital after passing out and they thought she had MS because of lesions on the brain. They ended up finding a small tear in the brain at the base where the spinal column is and the liaisons were caused by excess blood in the cavity. She luckily was diagnosed very quickly and they were able to stop the bleeding and she is fine now.
I think a chiropractor can do some very good things but after these issues and research on the internet I tell everyone I know not to have them crack the neck. 
Mike


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## low_48 (Aug 27, 2014)

I see you joined last year. Have you been woodworking longer than that? Doing 40 to 50 pens per day? Turning in a closet? I've been making and inhaling wood dust since 1972. In those 42 years, I've made my living as a professional woodworker for 26 years. Before that, I worked on a farm in my youth and at the end of the day I would be covered in dirt, hay dust, and grain dust. In some of my early hobby years, I set off my basement smoke detector a couple of times from the wood dust. Not proud of what I've done to myself, but just saying I've never had a chest X-ray with that kind of result. I'd say it's pneumonia.


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## sbwertz (Aug 27, 2014)

I bought this..And I love it.  It is light weight, it doesn't fog up. And when I don't need it,it hangs around my neck and is easy to pick back up.  I don't use the nose clip, I just don't breathe through my nose.

http://www.hartvilletool.com/product/1272/respirators

I have a Jet dust collector that comes on automatically whenever my lathe is running, and in addition, I have a box fan with a furnace filter bungeed to the intake side that sits beside my sander.


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## nava1uni (Aug 27, 2014)

I am an RN and you are really doing yourself damage to your lungs.  You should, at least, wear an N95 dust mask with a valve.  Use a shop vac to pull the dust away from your face.  You should be wearing a face shield and a good dust mask.  You could do an Oneida small cyclone with a shop vac and most of the dust would be collected.  Look on Craig's list and you might find a dust collector for a reasonable price.  You want a filter that goes down to 1 micron and also use a fan to blow the dust away from you face.  Prevention now will save you from getting emphysema, re-occuring pneumonia, asthma or other lungs problems.  Sorry if I sound too strong, but I deal with people who have failed to do these things and can no longer turn or breath.


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## randyrls (Aug 27, 2014)

BW Design Works said:


> Don't know if you have the tools or supplies to make this but Curtis posted this a while ago




I made a slightly different one like this but with a sloped and hinged top.  It works excellent, but I am looking at a version 2 of the design.


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## nativewooder (Aug 27, 2014)

Ask your chiropractor if he is a Medical Doctor, or something else.  You are making being  in law enforcement twice as dangerous.

You can purchase a very good half-mask from any number of companies and filters by 3M that will protect you as completely as spending a couple of thousand on a dust collector system, for around twenty dollars.

When you get wood dust in your lungs, it does not sprout into seedlings, it just sits there forever.  Take care!!


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## rblakemore (Aug 27, 2014)

I am asthmatic and use a WC respirator, Buy Toxic Dust Respirator at Woodcraft.com, and a face shield for eye protection.
I use fans to blow shavings and dust (there is both and they are different!!) away from me when it is at least cool.  I have a shop vac for the table saw.  And I am going to make both a portable dust collector on wheels that I can move around (even in the house where I can work) and a cyclone based (Oneida at WC) dust collector.  My son is building a shop and is building a cyclone dust collection system up front.


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## Jim Burr (Aug 27, 2014)

After all the talk about breathing and impact protection, people dont use it for two reasons...ignorance and arrogance. The dust you seem to enjoy is not showing up on the cxr... but could very well be the results. Really easy to find the blame here.


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## low_48 (Aug 27, 2014)

nativewooder said:


> When you get wood dust in your lungs, it does not sprout into seedlings, it just sits there forever.  Take care!!



Better check you medical advice. I'm no doctor, but pretty sure that wood dust does not just sit in your lungs forever. Look up mucocilliary escalator. Healthy lungs encase inhaled dust with mucous and the cilia move that mucous out. Like I said, no health expert, quoting wikipedia here. Inhaled particles do damage for certain, and do scar the lungs. Really a world of things that can happen, but it just doesn't sit there forever.


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## Shock me (Aug 27, 2014)

Beware of anecdotal evidence. The fact that somebody has been heavily exposed to wood dust since 1972 and has had no problem is meaningless and irrelevant. It certainly does not prove that there is no risk, nor that the risk is small. Plenty of heavy smokers never get lung cancer, plenty of speeders never get tickets.

Beware of uninformed medical advice. Opinions based on conjecture as to what stays in the lungs or based on a single wikipedia article are worthless.

The risk posed by inhaled particulants depends on the substance itself as well as the particle size and shape. Some particles (most notoriously, asbestos) remain trapped in the lung tissue, causing longterm mayhem. Others may be cleared, but can still do damage to the clearing mechanisms themselves. Your body's reaction to specific materials will vary from others.

The radiologic study is in all likelihood not imaging accumulated inhaled material itself, but rather a reaction to _something_, not necessarily lathe shavings. You should discuss these findings with your physician, making sure she is aware of your exposure.  If the original study was a chest x-ray, perhaps a CT scan will be recommended. Perhaps a follow-up study should be performed later to see if the problem has resolved. If your physician seems uncertain, consider seeing a pulmonologist for specialized expert advice.

And yes, wear a mask and use a dust collector since nobody thinks inhaling that stuf is good for you.


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## vtgaryw (Aug 27, 2014)

Just happened to be at the Doctor this morning for an annual checkup, and some of the nurses were talking about viruses going around and how many cases of pneumonia they've seen in the last week.

-gary


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## epigolucky (Aug 27, 2014)

It is difficult to say if turning is the exact cause of your PNA, the dust from wood and acrylic can irritate the lungs and contribute. I dont know what is circulating in your area, but we've seen quite a bit of respiratory viral illness this summer.

After coughing and sneezing up walnut dust after my first afternoon of turning, 
I purchased a shop vac with high filtration bags from the local home improvement store. I was able to get a flexible/rigid hose kit from WC that you can set up to sit right at the base of your turning - not the best or fanciest set up, but I haven't sneezed wood shavings in a while. 

Hope this helps.


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## low_48 (Aug 27, 2014)

Shock me said:


> Beware of anecdotal evidence. The fact that somebody has been heavily exposed to wood dust since 1972 and has had no problem is meaningless and irrelevant. It certainly does not prove that there is no risk, nor that the risk is small. Plenty of heavy smokers never get lung cancer, plenty of speeders never get tickets.
> 
> Beware of uninformed medical advice. Opinions based on conjecture as to what stays in the lungs or based on a single wikipedia article are worthless.
> 
> ...



I would suggest that explaining what asbestos does to the lungs has no more relevance to this post than what you think of my responses. Unless of course she is making an asbestos pen! LOL I have never said not to protect yourself. I was basically saying the same thing as you, that it was unlikely to be showing up on the imaging. My point was that if wood dust showed up on imaging, I would be the poster child. Could you also explain what was incorrect about the lungs function in removing the dust? I would prefer to be informed rather than just criticized.


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## Shock me (Aug 27, 2014)

low_48 said:


> nativewooder said:
> 
> 
> > When you get wood dust in your lungs, it does not sprout into seedlings, it just sits there forever.  Take care!!
> ...



I mentioned asbestos because both opinions had been expressed-that inhaled dust remains in place and that inhaled dust is cleared. The truth is (as usual) more complicated. Some inhaled material is cleared, some is not. I cited asbestos parenthetically as an example that does "just sit there forever"

The lungs have a variety of mechanisms for clearing bad stuff out, the "mucociliary escalator" being just one. Some material damages this system which then reduces the lungs defense against other bad stuff. Some of the ingredients of tobacco smoke are believed to do this. 

I agree with yourself and others who doubt the dust itself is what is being seen, but that doesn't mean the finding isn't the result of the dust exposure. There's an abnormality here that needs explained. The most prudent advice is for her to discuss her exposure history with her physician and pursue it further as needed


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## Curly (Aug 27, 2014)

Michelle since you have stated in the past that you turn outside on your porch, any screaming vacuum cleaners or dust collectors are going to bug your neighbours to no end. A good light weight mask and face shield is going to be your best bet after your lungs clear up. A powered respirator or heavy cartridge mask isn't likely going to work for you because of your bad neck. You issues are probably not from the dust this time, but from a bacteria or virus you picked up, maybe from work.


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## sbell111 (Aug 27, 2014)

low_48 said:


> I see you joined last year. Have you been woodworking longer than that? Doing 40 to 50 pens per day? Turning in a closet? I've been making and inhaling wood dust since 1972. In those 42 years, I've made my living as a professional woodworker for 26 years. Before that, I worked on a farm in my youth and at the end of the day I would be covered in dirt, hay dust, and grain dust. In some of my early hobby years, I set off my basement smoke detector a couple of times from the wood dust. Not proud of what I've done to myself, but just saying I've never had a chest X-ray with that kind of result. I'd say it's pneumonia.


Some people smoke for decades and never have a problem.  That doesn't mean that smoking doesn't kill people every single day.


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## sbell111 (Aug 27, 2014)

low_48 said:


> Shock me said:
> 
> 
> > Beware of anecdotal evidence. The fact that somebody has been heavily exposed to wood dust since 1972 and has had no problem is meaningless and irrelevant. It certainly does not prove that there is no risk, nor that the risk is small. Plenty of heavy smokers never get lung cancer, plenty of speeders never get tickets.
> ...



So replace 'asbestos' with 'antler'.


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## sbell111 (Aug 27, 2014)

ladycop322 said:


> but wanted to throw this out to all you members...
> 
> Something to ponder:
> 
> ...


It is certainly possible that what they saw was a result of dust inhalation.

link


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## low_48 (Aug 27, 2014)

sbell111 said:


> low_48 said:
> 
> 
> > I see you joined last year. Have you been woodworking longer than that? Doing 40 to 50 pens per day? Turning in a closet? I've been making and inhaling wood dust since 1972. In those 42 years, I've made my living as a professional woodworker for 26 years. Before that, I worked on a farm in my youth and at the end of the day I would be covered in dirt, hay dust, and grain dust. In some of my early hobby years, I set off my basement smoke detector a couple of times from the wood dust. Not proud of what I've done to myself, but just saying I've never had a chest X-ray with that kind of result. I'd say it's pneumonia.
> ...



Can someone explain why my reply has irritated several people? All I was saying is that with one year of pen turning as a hobby, it would be very unlikely to have visible lung damage on a scan. Maybe folks just don't like to hear about me? Cheez, sorry!


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## sbell111 (Aug 27, 2014)

low_48 said:


> sbell111 said:
> 
> 
> > low_48 said:
> ...


I think that it's because your post seems contrary to the facts.  It read exactly like the guy who claims that smoking is fine because he's smoked all his life with nary a problem.  (My dad was this guy for years.  He stopped making that claim several years before he died as he developed really bad COPD.  He died not too long ago.  I feel bad that he never got to know my kids.)

The reality of it is that a person could develop a lung irritation that would show up on an x-ray in just a day of turning.

A number of years ago, my wife was turning some pens with her dad in his shop.  His dust collector was out of service and they were stupidly trying to make do with just a fan moving the air out of the shop.  She turned one pen:  a dear antler cigar.  By the time she was done turning it, she was having some trouble breathing.  She went to sit down in the house, but as the minutes ticked by, her breathing got worse so we tossed her into the car and visited the local ED.  She was diagnosed with acute hypersensitivity pneumonitis caused by breathing in the dust and it certainly did show up on her x-ray.

Before someone posts that they were discussing wood dust, not antler. I welcome you to take a look at the previous link that I posted.


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## Shock me (Aug 27, 2014)

low_48 said:


> Can someone explain why my reply has irritated several people? All I was saying is that with one year of pen turning as a hobby, it would be very unlikely to have visible lung damage on a scan. Maybe folks just don't like to hear about me? Cheez, sorry!


 
Don't include me amongst the irritated, I am not.

My original reply warned about the dangers of accepting uninformed medical advice, and yours is simply that.

You DO NOT KNOW that a short period of exposure to wood and acrylic dust would be unlikely to result in visible lung damage. And you certainly cannot cite your own personal experience as proof. Your advice was bad and in my opinion, the OP should disregard it.

You DO NOT KNOW whether or not an individual might be highly sensitive to a particular form of inhaled dust and might indeed react quickly and dramatically to even a brief exposure.

You DO NOT KNOW what the significance of bilateral basilar pulmonic consolidation is and should not be offering your opinion of it.

The only sensible advice for the OP is to discuss this finding with her physician and to wear a mask/use a dust collector.


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## low_48 (Aug 27, 2014)

Shock me said:


> low_48 said:
> 
> 
> > Can someone explain why my reply has irritated several people? All I was saying is that with one year of pen turning as a hobby, it would be very unlikely to have visible lung damage on a scan. Maybe folks just don't like to hear about me? Cheez, sorry!
> ...



Thanks guys. Gregory, she asked if anyone had an opinion in post #1  "Anyone have an opinion on if this could be a possibility?"


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## magier412 (Aug 27, 2014)

Hi.  It's unlikely that what is showing up on your films is dust itself...however, it COULD be the result of inhaling turning dust (or any number of other things).  Radiologists are trained, and can tell the difference between fluid (pneumonia) and solids (turning dusts).

I think that the bottom line here is this:  protect yourself appropriately with dust and vision safety equipment - whatever and however that works for you.  

Inhalants that include foreign objects are generally bad (medical inhalers aside), and it's good to protect yourself from those things when you can.  There's enough out there that we can't protect ourselves from, so try to wear appropriate equipment when you can.  

I use this (in addition to dust collectors):  

http://smile.amazon.com/Trend-AIR-P...ned&sr=8-1&keywords=air+filtering+face+shield.

It's a pain at times, and can get a bit heavy, but it does the job for me.  

I think that's the point - use what you feel comfortable with to mitigate the danger.  We all may do things differently, but the overall result is often the same.

Just my two cents...

~~ Kay


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## ladycop322 (Aug 27, 2014)

Jim Burr,

Why are you such a hateful person?  Frankly, I am tired of seeing your insulting comments on my posts as well as others.  Come down off that high horse would you?  

Thanks.


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## Sawdust1825 (Sep 2, 2014)

Take a look at the Trend Airshield Pro. It's not for everyone and you might find it to large or to expensive. I love mine. Some woods are very irritating to the lungs when the dust is airborne. I am not going to debate anyone but you can look different materials up and see their respective ratings for being a lung irritant. I know I will be corrected if wrong but all wood dust has some undesirable effects on your lungs and some woods have a lot. I know for example walnut is one of many woods that can have adverse effects on you. I noticed my nose burning after working it before I got the Trend Airshield. It serves as a respirator and eye protection as well. Protect yourself even if it's an inexpensive mask it's better than nothing at all.

http://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/wood-allergies-and-toxicity/


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## jaywood1207 (Sep 2, 2014)

I'm a little late with this one but if you are turning on your porch (assuming it is open to the outdoors and not enclosed) I would think that you could have very effective dust control with a dust mask (paper type) and a fan blowing across your work to take the dust away from you.  Obviously not as good as some of the other suggestions but if you aren't inside they might be overkill in this case.


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## SteveG (Sep 3, 2014)

I decided to read through this entire thread, because it addresses a serious topic, and wanted to gain from it what I could. I do not have a device-related suggestion based on my experience, except for this: try to find a solution that is both effective in what it does, and is also something you will use all the time. If, for example you select a solution that is uncomfortable, or a little difficult to use, there could be a tendency to not use it all the time. Selfdiscipline varies from person to person, and I find myself only "selectively" using my "solutions", which means that some of the time they are 100% INEFFECTIVE!...That is my experience, YMMV.


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