# Need help making a kitless Fountain Pen



## ChiTown56 (Jun 9, 2015)

Hi, I am a newbie here to this site, and would like to make a kitless fountain pen, but have no idea where to start? Can someone guide me?? Please.....

For what it's worth I have a Jet 10-14 Lathe, Skill bandsaw, 14" Drill press, Craftsman 6" Variable speed grinder, and a hand held belt saw.

Thank You,
Mike


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## BSea (Jun 9, 2015)

Welcome Mike!  At the top of the page, you'll see blue buttons. One of them is labeled "Library".  In there are many articles related to pen turning.  Some of them should answer your questions involving kitless pens.  

My suggestion is to study those, and then design what you want to do.  Then buy the appropriate taps and dies for your design.  You can easily spend $500 in special tooling.  But that isn't necessary at all to get started.  

Good luck.  It is an adventure.  I find it more fun doing kitless than kits.


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## mredburn (Jun 9, 2015)

How far down that rabbit hole do you wish to go?
You can make the pen body and use a 10 x 1 tap  and put an El Grande front section on it,
You can make your own front section and use which ever brand of Feed Assembly you prefer.  Jowo, Bock, Schmidt. or other. 
THe place to start is to draw the pen you want to build and start giving it some dimensions. You can always use an existing kit to measure to get started.


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## mark james (Jun 9, 2015)

Hi Mike:

mredburn and BSea's suggestions are excellent for your questions!

I'll suggest (_IGNORE_ at will :tongue you start with making closed ends pens, with existing kit components.  And as suggested, the "Library" (and "Search") buttons are good starts.  Also UTube will have a wealth of knowledge.

http://content.penturners.org/library/pens/closed_end_pens.pdf


Ask more questions if you need suggestions.  Others will have more experience than I!!   I have not done a kitless pen; but have started with closed-ends and as an intermediate step - I am having fun.


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## Joey-Nieves (Jun 9, 2015)

You will need a 12mm x 1 or .75 tap  and die preferably triple start but not essential, you will need the fountain pen nib and feed with the appropriate tap(Welcome to The Classic Nib), You could use a section from a kit but you would still need the appropriate tap
Watch this video and the others he's got on the subject https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DQna36uThA
joey


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## Codingo (Jun 10, 2015)

Joey-Nieves said:


> You will need a 12mm x 1 or .75 tap  and die preferably triple start but not essential, you will need the fountain pen nib and feed with the appropriate tap(Welcome to The Classic Nib), You could use a section from a kit but you would still need the appropriate tap
> Watch this video and the others he's got on the subject https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DQna36uThA
> joey



I've been spending a lot of time looking into the subject and honestly have found very little of substance on the subject. The problem is that kit pens are so easy, and kitless pens so hard that educators on the subject appear to be forgetting to teach how to transition between the two if you lack critical skills (such as tap and die).

I've sold a great many kit pens and find these very easy, but I'm struggling to find any good resources on how to learn what tools to buy and how to start learning the skills I need to go kitless. I really just wish there was an example of "let's make this pen together" where somebody has defined the dimensions, tools and materials and I can replicate what they're doing to build skills and confidence before starting to build and design kitless pens of my own.


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## mredburn (Jun 10, 2015)

Body of pen  .512
Pen cap .565
Threads for cap 12m x .75
threads for front section 10 x.75
threads for feed  #6 - 7.6 x.6 Bock, 7.4 x.5 Jowo. 6.5 x .5 Schmidt
Threads for feed #5-6.5 x.5 Jowo, 6.4 x.6 Bock
make the front section 1 inch long by 11mm in diameter. Adjust length and contour to suit.


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## Codingo (Jun 10, 2015)

mredburn said:


> Body of pen  .512
> Pen cap .565
> Threads for cap 12m x .75
> threads for front section 10 x.75
> ...



Sorry I'm very green - could you explain these numbers in a bit more detail for me? Very much appreciated though!


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## mredburn (Jun 10, 2015)

Diameters for the cap and body, the rest are thread sizes and pitches in Metric.
The reason there are no step by step hold your hand tutorials is that the members that have made this journey understand that you need to work it out on your own. Every little change affects something else.
The first step is to draw a pen design. Even if its a napkin sketch and start to see how the dimensions need to be a certain size or length.
This subject comes up fairly frequently and its not that hard.  Take a piece of cheap wood and try it. If it fails try again and again. I will look to see if I can find the threads on tapping


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## mredburn (Jun 10, 2015)

You should have a digital caliper, a tap guide, and  a die holder.  You can get around these but if your starting out and dont have the skills already these tools will be needed.


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## mredburn (Jun 10, 2015)

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f30/dummies-guide-tapping-lathe-59693/


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## Codingo (Jun 10, 2015)

mredburn said:


> http://www.penturners.org/forum/f30/dummies-guide-tapping-lathe-59693/



Thank-you very much. Will get to reading!


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## mredburn (Jun 10, 2015)

http://content.penturners.org/library/general_reference/taps_dies_kitless.pdf


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## mredburn (Jun 10, 2015)

Probably the best blank to try it on is one made from alumilite. Acrylics tend to chip and break, Wood doesnt lend itself to threading easily at all. Ebonite is another material that can work well.  Threads can be cut on brass and aluminum parts on a wood lathe and glued onto your pen bodies. In this case you will be duplicating the kit parts yourself.
You could make the whole pen from aluminum or brass if you wanted to.  THe aluminum you get from Lowes or HD etc is usually poor quality and finding an online vendor is not hard, Online metals I believe a lot of members use for small pieces. Brass 360 and Aluminum 6061  will work.


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## Joey-Nieves (Jun 10, 2015)

Codingo said:


> mredburn said:
> 
> 
> > Body of pen  .512
> ...



I was were you are now, Mike and other people gave me some good advice and by the way Mike has most of the stuff you would need at his store silverpenparts.com - TOOLS - Taps and dies.
But I watch some videos on Youtube and saw how some people did them and it was very helpful, specially the link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DQna36uThA.

What you will discover is that there are more than one way to attack the matter.  

You will need some basic tools


Taps & Dies- 12mm is the smallest FP you can make with out using some kind of insert for the section.  What I'm referring to is the cap and body threads.  Triple start threads is what comes on most kits and is what most people expect, but for starters a 12mm x .75 will do.
You will need  Collet Chucking System with 5 Collets at Penn State Industries Expanding chuck and will eventually have to make some jigs with a pieces of 1/2 aluminum rod. Gilrock posted this sometime ago http://www.penturners.org/forum/f56/kitless-tooling-103535/
Sections: I used a section from a kit pen for my first pen. 8.4 mm x1 and 8.5 mm x1 seem to be the most available.   Richard L. Greenwald, LLC, Pens, Pens Parts and Photographs has sections and the appropriate tap.  Exotic blanks Exotic Blanks has nice platinum sections they are 8.4 mm x1.  If you plan on making your own section then Welcome to The Classic Nib has everything you will need.
The body is basically the same as a kit, You will make the 12 mm thread on the outside about 1/4" and a small notch behind the thread so the cap can screw all the way in. You will drill a 5/16" x 3" hole in the body measured from the tip of the thread and thread the inside with the 8.5 mmx1 Tap to fit the section. some people will argue with this step because the appropriate bit should be a hair smaller but I found that the section threads nice and smooth and the ink converter slides in perfectly.  I made a jig from 1/2" aluminum rod with the 8.5 mm x1 thread on the back of a 5/16" by 3" recess so I screw the body on and hold it with the expanding chuck.
The cap is easy 12mm x .75 to match the body and the inside should be 1-7/8" deep. then you make a cap for the clip and make 6mm or what ever you have threads to attack it to the cap.  You can fin other ways to do this in the library.
I hope this helps, If not then just drive over with a six pack and I'll give you a demo.

Joey

Joey


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## BSea (Jun 10, 2015)

Codingo said:


> I've been spending a lot of time looking into the subject and honestly have found very little of substance on the subject. The problem is that kit pens are so easy, and kitless pens so hard that educators on the subject appear to be forgetting to teach how to transition between the two if you lack critical skills (such as tap and die).
> 
> I've sold a great many kit pens and find these very easy, but I'm struggling to find any good resources on how to learn what tools to buy and how to start learning the skills I need to go kitless. I really just wish there was an example of "let's make this pen together" where somebody has defined the dimensions, tools and materials and I can replicate what they're doing to build skills and confidence before starting to build and design kitless pens of my own.



I'd suggest doing the kitless click 1st.  It doesn't cost a lot for the tooling. There is a great tutorial in the library.
http://content.penturners.org/library/pens/kitlessclickpen.pdf 

Here's a video on turning threads.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvOvKpqnykI

Look at some of Shawn's other videos.  He started from scratch knowing nothing about turning.  He had the same questions you did.  But his 1st pen was a kitless pen. He now makes pens full time, and sells them worldwide.

He's watch_art on this forum.


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## BSea (Jun 10, 2015)

There's a really good thread with several links HERE.


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## Codingo (Jun 10, 2015)

BSea said:


> There's a really good thread with several links HERE.



Thanks again Bob, you've helped me a lot. Lots of reading / experimenting to start doing!


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## ChiTown56 (Jun 10, 2015)

*Input*

Wow! Thank You all......You all have really given me alot to think about in my quest to make a kitless pen.

You Folks are just the best!!!


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## its_only_me (Jun 12, 2015)

mredburn said:


> Body of pen  .512
> Pen cap .565
> Threads for cap 12m x .75
> threads for front section 10 x.75
> ...



Are you sure about the bock #6 feed I thought it was 7.9 x .6


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## mredburn (Jun 12, 2015)

You are correct its 7.9x .6  my error.


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