# Any reloaders here?



## snyiper (Sep 3, 2010)

I need a little advice, Dont worry I am not depriming live rounds with a ball pein hammer. I just purchased a lee single stage press that's bench mounted. I would like to deprime shells and learn how to size the neck for a tight fit for bullets. This is for cartridge pens BTW. Lets say I want to do 30-30, 270,30-06 308 and 7mm rem mag. Can I do all these with the same gear? What type of dies or depriming stuff do I need to look for? Yes somewhere down the line I may reload for deer season but for now Factory rounds are spot on. Recommendations on gear I need and what is nice to have..?


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## BigShed (Sep 3, 2010)

I'm not a reloader, but I do make a lot of bullet pens. Whenever I get some fired shells I resize the neck using my ER25 collet chuck, just insert the neck in the right collet, tighten the collet (you get a feel for how much) and that's it. As I always use boat tail projectiles it doesn't matter if I go a little too tight, the projectile soon expands that a tad and gives a nice and tight fit for the bullet pens.

I prefer new unprimed shells though as fired ones often have a bit of a bulge at the primer end, but sometimes people want a pen made as a memento of a particular trophy kill.


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## Smitty37 (Sep 3, 2010)

*NO*



snyiper said:


> I need a little advice, Dont worry I am not depriming live rounds with a ball pein hammer. I just purchased a lee single stage press that's bench mounted. I would like to deprime shells and learn how to size the neck for a tight fit for bullets. This is for cartridge pens BTW. Lets say I want to do 30-30, 270,30-06 308 and 7mm rem mag. Can I do all these with the same gear? What type of dies or depriming stuff do I need to look for? Yes somewhere down the line I may reload for deer season but for now Factory rounds are spot on. Recommendations on gear I need and what is nice to have..?


 
30-30, 30-06 and 308 are all the same size (30 cal.)  .270 and 7mm are different ... 7mm is about .280

If you are using real bullets you would need at least 3 different dies to get them back to the right size.


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## Displaced Canadian (Sep 3, 2010)

You would need a resizing die for each shell. The resizing die will also knock out the primer and will reshape the bulge at the base of the shell.


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## mredburn (Sep 3, 2010)

Freds advice is pretty good. If you decide to actually invest in the dies I would advise using the carbide dies sets and you would need one for each caliber.  plus you will need different holders for the base of the shell, Im not sure about the 7mm holder but the 3030 is different from the 30-06/308.  You might pick up just the resizing/depriming die for each caliber.


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## hunter-27 (Sep 3, 2010)

You will soon find out unless you are doing the reloading, buying the different dies will not be cost effective. Best to try the collet thing or find someone who reloads already in those calibers. My 2 cents has been deposited. :wink:


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## Andrew Arndts (Sep 3, 2010)

I reload ever time after I shoot....
Thompson Center Hawken, .50 cal Patch Round ball with 70gr of powder.






But I only use it during Firearm season in Michigan.
Archery Season I bust out my Grayling era Fred Bear Alaskan Longbow. 50# at 28"
For small game season I use my Thompson Center Seneca in .36cal and 25gr of powder and patched round ball.


Sorry no picture of that.:wink:


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## jskeen (Sep 3, 2010)

Actually while the 30-30, 308 and 30-06 all fire a 30 caliber projectile, the actual casings are very different.  Each caliber requires the use of it's own resizing die.  The die screws into the top of the press and the casing is pressed up into it by the ram.  The casing is held on the ram by a shellholder that clips into the u shaped slot in the top of the ram.  Many casings will use the same shellholder, with their own individual resizing die.  The 30-30 is a rimmed cartridge, it is the only one you mentioned that uses a number 3 shellholder.  The 270 winchester, and 308 are both derived from 30-06 casings, and all use a number 2.  The 7mm belted case uses a number 5.  

Most dies are only sold in sets, including the resize die, a bullet seating die, and in some cases a crimp die.  The sets are not cheap and acquiring one for each caliber just to make pens with would be a bit expensive


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## hunter-27 (Sep 3, 2010)

hunter-27 said:


> You will soon find out unless you are doing the reloading, buying the different dies will not be cost effective. Best to try the collet thing or find someone who reloads already in those calibers. My 2 cents has been deposited. :wink:


 


jskeen said:


> Actually while the 30-30, 308 and 30-06 all fire a 30 caliber projectile, the actual casings are very different. Each caliber requires the use of it's own resizing die. The die screws into the top of the press and the casing is pressed up into it by the ram. The casing is held on the ram by a shellholder that clips into the u shaped slot in the top of the ram. Many casings will use the same shellholder, with their own individual resizing die. The 30-30 is a rimmed cartridge, it is the only one you mentioned that uses a number 3 shellholder. The 270 winchester, and 308 are both derived from 30-06 casings, and all use a number 2. The 7mm belted case uses a number 5.
> 
> Most dies are only sold in sets, including the resize die, a bullet seating die, and in some cases a crimp die. The sets are not cheap and acquiring one for each caliber just to make pens with would be a bit expensive


 Ya, what he said. :biggrin:


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## soligen (Sep 3, 2010)

I haven't done a cartridge pen, but I reload.

when I reload I use 4 dies, but you can get away with 3. One die re-sizes the brass and deprimes. The second drops powder and puts a slight flare on the neck to make seating the bullet easier. The third seats and crimps the bullet, and the fourth (optional) is called a "factory crimp" and improves the crimp and does a final re-size.

You can buy dies in sets for each caliber. Lee Precision maked good dies for a reasonable price. If you get Carbide dies you can often get away without lubing the casings. Midway USA is a good place to buy dies. The set also comes with the shell holder specific to the caliber.

For bottle neck casings, you also would trim the brass to length after sizing. There is a special tool for this.

With a single stage reloader, it is kind of a pain becasue you have to install and adjust the die for each stage in teh operation. I like using what is called a turret press. This is the one I have. Works quite well for small batches (I have a bigger press for higher volume).

http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/cat...l/catalog/turretpress.html#ClassicTurretPress

If you can find a reloader in your area to show you a setup it helps tremendously - I had someone show me the ropes and I used his loaders until I saved the money to buy my own.

As someone else said, if you know someone that reloads the claiber you are interested in, may be easyest to have him just do a bunch for you once a year.


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## Mark (Sep 3, 2010)

The overall cost of covering several different cartridges is one reason I settled on using only 30.06 cartridges on a multi-stage press. Once I got the press set up, I feed the cartridge in and a de-primed, re-sized cartridge kicks out the side. Pretty much move as fast as I can get a new case in the press.

In every day reloading I only load pistol ammo. 38, 357, 9mm, 357Sig and 40S&W. Mostly 38's and 40S&W. That is what I do most of my shooting with. My wife shoots the 9mm, so I got the equipment to reload that too.


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## dogcatcher (Sep 4, 2010)

Check this place out.  http://www.mdshooters.com/  Sign up and ask if there is anyone in your area that can help you get started.  You might find sources of brass, used dies, and bullets that someone did not like but will work in pens.  A lot easier to get someone to show you than struggle through reading and trying it yourself.  And it can save you a lot of money if you trade pens for brass and bullets or even dies.


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## livertrans (Sep 4, 2010)

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=136543
This is a decapping die that will deprime all the calibers you need. You will also need shellholders. Note that 30-06 and .308 use the same shellholder.


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## SDB777 (Sep 4, 2010)

I reload all the calibers you mentioned, and if you were closer you could just come over and knock yourself silly on the reloading press....but Maryland is quite a drive.


One important item I have not seen anyone mention.....Hornady Case Lube!  Nothing worse then getting a rifle cartridge stuff in a die....





Scott (try handloadersbench(dot)com) B


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## rjwolfe3 (Sep 4, 2010)

Scott, I just joined that forum. Been playing amateur gunsmith/reloader for a little bit.


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## SDB777 (Sep 4, 2010)

rjwolfe3 said:


> Scott, I just joined that forum. Been playing amateur gunsmith/reloader for a little bit.


 
Glad to have you there!  Been a Board Founder for a long time there, so if you need anything....just ask.  Lots of really smart guys and gals there!


Scott (they make it easy to moderate too) B


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## KenV (Sep 4, 2010)

Seems that a collet "crimping" die would be adequate for many of the pen cases. --  I think I have one of those in the stack of dies for the 308 family (one die for all the 308 bullets plus any shell holders).  .   Would not be a firm as a solder == will have to try that if I can find it.  I generally use new nickel plated cases and barnes bullets but sometimes use chrome slimline nibs with 30 cal.


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## ssajn (Sep 4, 2010)

I've been a reloader, gunsmith, shooter for 30+ years.

IMHO you would be better off buying new Remington brass and using that to make pens. Fired brass often has blemishes that would show up on the pen. 

It would also take a lot of pens to recover the price the price of the press and die sets. Instead of crimping in the bullets use Loctite.


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## Bellsy (Sep 4, 2010)

Rather than spend a lot of money on a fancy press, I opted to make a brass tapering tool that I simply push and turn the casing into to make it smaller. If the casing is damaged where the projectile goes in, I use a tapered round chisel to open it up and then re-size it with the tapering tool. The bullet acts as the go - no go gauge.

Dave


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## Sylvanite (Sep 5, 2010)

ssajn said:


> IMHO you would be better off buying new Remington brass and using that to make pens. Fired brass often has blemishes that would show up on the pen.


I prefer Winchester brass over Remington for pens.  Remington tumbles their brass right after annealing, which often leaves small dings on the case shoulder.  The last time I bought a box of 100 nickel-plated Remington shellcases, only 10 were undented.  Winchester brass is a little harder and arrives in better shape.

A small reloading press isn't very expensive, and dies can be had pretty cheaply too.  Look for Lee brand Pacesetter die sets, or (if you don't need the shellholder) RGB die sets.  For rifle brass, lubricating the cases is a must.  I mix my own, but any brand of spray case lube works well.  Check out www.midwayusa.com, and good deals can often be found at gun shows.

I hope that helps,
Eric


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## snyiper (Sep 5, 2010)

Thanks for all your help I got a single stage press now just need some dies that will size and deprime...are all dies compatible with the lee press? Ill start with 30-06 then move to 7mm or 270 as I shoot all of these. The cost of the dies and shell holders wont be in vein even if I load a couple boxes a year.


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## Sylvanite (Sep 5, 2010)

snyiper said:


> ...are all dies compatible with the lee press? Ill start with 30-06 then move to 7mm or 270 as I shoot all of these.


MOST die sets and shellholders are interchangable, but there are exceptions.  I generally use RCBS and Lee Precision brand dies, and (in the normal calibers) the dies and shellholders fit both RCBS and Lee presses.  Lee and RCBS use different numbers on their shellholders though.  

If you're going to reload a variety of calibers, Lee sells two shellholder sets.  One is for a single-stage press and the other is for the hand primer.  I prefer to prime the cases off-press, so I have both.  RCBS die sets are nicer in some ways than Lee, but the Lee sets are cheaper and come with lock rings.

Rifle dies usually come in sets of 2 to 4.
A deprime/size die.  This die has a center mandrel with a punch on the end.  It pushes out the spent primer and sizes the inside of the case neck to the correct diameter.  The inside of the die body reforms the outside of the case.  It's vitally important to lubricate the case before resizing or it will get stuck in the die.
A seat/crimp die.  This die has a center screw that seats the bullet to the correct depth.  The inside of the die body (usually) has a shape that first tapers the case mouth and then rolls it over into the bullet.  You can adjust this die to provide no crimp (neck tension only which is typical), a light taper crimp, or a heavy roll crimp.
Some sets provide a neck-only size die.  If you are loading for a particular rifle, you can fire-form the brass to that rifle's chamber, and then only resize the neck.  This extends the brass life, and can yield better accuracy.  For hunting or semi-automatic shooting, however, you need to full-length size the brass.
Some sets provide a separate crimp die.  This die lets you seat the bullet in one operation and crimp the case neck separately.  In theory, this can give you more consistent results without having to trim brass as carefully.

RCBS die sets are usually 2 dies.  Lee RGB sets are 2-dies.  Lee Pacesetter sets are 3-dies (they include a "factory crimp die") and also come with a powder scoop and a shellholder.

If you're planning to take up reloading, I recommend getting 2 or more reloading manuals.  Lyman's is one of the best for general reloading information.  Speer, Sierra, and Hornady are also quite good.  Hodgdon is ok.  The Lee manual isn't bad, but their load data is  simply reprinted from other sources, which defeats much of the purpose of having different books to cross-check.  Read them thoroughly before starting, and make sure you understand all the steps involved, and the reasons for all the procedures.

Good luck, and enjoy!
Eric


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## KenV (Sep 5, 2010)

Glenn --  I hope you have already figure out that you will not save any money -- but you will have better fit of the loads to your rifles/pistols and you will shoot more rounds.

And then there is bullet casting.......


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## KenV (Sep 5, 2010)

Dave -- 

Good tip -- Loctite Red is in effect liquid solder


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## Smitty37 (Sep 5, 2010)

*Love it*



Andrew Arndts said:


> I reload ever time after I shoot....
> Thompson Center Hawken, .50 cal Patch Round ball with 70gr of powder.
> 
> 
> ...


 Gave mine to my son-in-law...mine was a CVA kit.  I was totally amazed at how well it shot...at 50 yards it was very accurate.  I never tried it at a longer range than that.


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## Smitty37 (Sep 5, 2010)

*Not quite*



jskeen said:


> Actually while the 30-30, 308 and 30-06 all fire a 30 caliber projectile, the actual casings are very different. Each caliber requires the use of it's own resizing die. The die screws into the top of the press and the casing is pressed up into it by the ram. The casing is held on the ram by a shellholder that clips into the u shaped slot in the top of the ram. Many casings will use the same shellholder, with their own individual resizing die. The 30-30 is a rimmed cartridge, it is the only one you mentioned that uses a number 3 shellholder. The 270 winchester, and 308 are both derived from 30-06 casings, and all use a number 2. The 7mm belted case uses a number 5.
> 
> Most dies are only sold in sets, including the resize die, a bullet seating die, and in some cases a crimp die. The sets are not cheap and acquiring one for each caliber just to make pens with would be a bit expensive


 
If I confused anyone I apologize I was thinking only of the bullet end of the cartridge.

But the .308 Winchester the shell casing is unique...not derived from or at all like the 30-06 it is shorter and bigger around at the base and has a different shoulder.  It was derived from the NATO 7.62mm round.  as was the .243 Winchester which is a necked down 308.  

The 30-30 is a rimed cartridge and the .270 is a necked down 30-06.


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## JerrySambrook (Sep 5, 2010)

Actually the .308 is derived from the 7.62 nato, which in turn was derived from the .300 Savage, not the .30-06 like most people think. The major difference between the 7.62 and the .300 savage is the length of the neck. The .300 Savage was the first to be considered in the .30 caliber family to be successor to the .30-06. The reason it was not adopted is the neck length and the poor feeding for machine gun usage.

The rim and base size of all four cartridges are the same, as originally there was a lot of .30-06 brass already partly extruded, and there was also the ease of converting the .30-06 into a .308 by just changing barrels, and in some cases, putting a second guide at the back of the magazine to accomodate the new shorter length.

As an aside, the .308 and .30-06 had the same performance when the .308 came out due to the higher proof pressures of the new rifles and cases, and that the .30-06 had many older rilfes in the 36000 lb pressure band, rather than the .308's newer 55000 pound pressure band.
There is a small shoulder and taper difference in the 7.62 nato cartridge which sometimes might not allow .308 to feed into the 7.62 chamber,


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