# Rubbing wet CA w/ paper towel and accelerator



## les-smith (Feb 8, 2007)

I tried something new tonight.  I was applying CA to my pen as I was finishing it.  For some reason the CA was not drying very quick.  So, I decided to spray some accelerator on a folded up piece of paper towel and rub it on the wet CA.  It worked great and it seemed to smooth the CA a little and really made it shine.  I did four coats that way.  I held the paper towel under the revolving barrels for a little while and then rubbed the wet CA.  I think holding it under the barrel caused the CA to set up a little so that the towel doesn't catch or deform the CA.  Has anyone else tried this?  What do you all think about this?  The finish turned out great.  I kind of felt like it was like doing a CA/BLO finish, except instead of BLO I was using accelerator.  Tell me what you think.


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## RussFairfield (Feb 9, 2007)

Yes, it will work just as you have discovered. The paper towel itself acts as a mild accelerator. Adding accelerator to the paper towel just makes it work faster, but not as fast as spraying the accelerator directly on the wood. 

However, do not let a sample of one make you over-confident. Use too much accelerator or a different accelerator, a different brand of towel, or make one hesitation with the moving paper towel, and you can find yourself with a paper towel that is now as one with the wood.


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## bgray (Feb 9, 2007)

I've tried your method, and I think that it makes the CA dry too fast.

If you want to slow it down a little try spraying the blank with accelerator, and then wipe it off.  Then apply your CA.  There will be enough residual accelerator that it will speed up the curing time, but not real fast.

But I still don't like to use any accelerator at all.  My best results are just with patience for the longer cure time (which really isn't that long).

Is your shop cold right now?  This leads to a slower cure.  Or maybe your CA is old.


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## RussFairfield (Feb 9, 2007)

There is merit in not using an accelerator. The CA glue finish is harder.


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## Marc Phillips (Feb 9, 2007)

> _Originally posted by RussFairfield_
> <br />There is merit in not using an accelerator. The CA glue finish is harder.



Heya Russ....

If you would, please define "harder" ... this is the first I have heard of this... 

I have heard that using an accelerator would make a bond less effective due to the quick bonding does not allow the CA to penetrate as deep.... and that I understand. 

So... "harder" is "not as soft"? ... why?

Thanks...


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## RussFairfield (Feb 9, 2007)

Besides that the CA will get better penetration into the wood, and a better bond with the wood, it will consistently be one grade harder with the Pencil Hardness Test when the accelerator is not used until after the glue has started to cure naturally. In other words, waiting for the smell before using the accelerator.  

Without the hardener, the hardest pencil lead that will not scratch the CA finish is consistently a 5H. When the hardener was used there will be some scratching of most finishes with the same 5H pencil. 
Those are the numbers I get with fresh Hot Stuff in my shop in North Idaho in the summertime. Others may get different numbers, but the results should show a similar slight softening of the finish when an accelerator is used.

I have no idea whether this can be related to the durability of CA as a finish, but we usually associate "harder" with "longer". I doubt that most people can tell the difference in one pencil hardness.


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## Marc Phillips (Feb 9, 2007)

> _Originally posted by RussFairfield_
> <br />Besides that the CA will get better penetration into the wood, and a better bond with the wood, it will consistently be one grade harder with the Pencil Hardness Test when the accelerator is not used until after the glue has started to cure naturally. In other words, waiting for the smell before using the accelerator.
> 
> Without the hardener, the hardest pencil lead that will not scratch the CA finish is consistently a 5H. When the hardener was used there will be some scratching of most finishes with the same 5H pencil.
> ...



Thanks Russ.... to be honest, I use the accelerator just because I don't want to wait... and the whole time I have been thinking it made no difference at all.... I really haven't had any problems with the finish on my pens, and I have a couple that get used daily and look new still...

So what I am hearing is that it does make for a less "harder" and not as long lasting finish, but it is minimal... i.e. hardly noticable... 

Hope I have this right []

Thanks again....


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## les-smith (Feb 9, 2007)

Very interesting.  I'm going to keep trying this, Lord knows I haven't had any luck with the BLO.  Thanks for replys.


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## wudnhed (Feb 9, 2007)

I keep my lathe on slow and put 5 coats of thin CA with no accelerator waiting a few minutes between each application.  I then do 3 coats of medium Ca/Blo.  I like doing the 5 coats as a first step, I feel and as Russ has said, it makes the finish "harder" []


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## Pipes (Feb 10, 2007)

I think folks WAY over think this CA thing ! I just put  it on until I get nice coverage and Iam done ! Its NOT rocket science IMO anyway ! []

pipes


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## Marc Phillips (Feb 10, 2007)

> _Originally posted by Pipes_
> <br />I think folks WAY over think this CA thing ! I just put  it on until I get nice coverage and Iam done ! Its NOT rocket science IMO anyway ! []
> 
> pipes



What great advice! ... why didn't I think of that?... just slop it on until it's covered!

Guess we can shut down the finishing forum now... pipes has solved the problem []


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## Pipes (Feb 11, 2007)

> _Originally posted by Marc Phillips_
> <br />
> 
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> ...



I think maybe you took what I said wrong ! But NO I don't mean slop it on ! But it is NOT rocket science and NO no one should or needs to slop it on ! here is a pic of a pen I did and I doubt you could say I slopped it on ! But it only took about 10 minutes to finish with CA if that ! I really IMHO think folks way over think this is all just my 2 cents!! [:I][]

So advice you want :O) well here is one piece from me thou Iam NO expert :O) Try a first coat or 2 with thin CA and sand it back each time from 6000 MM to 12000 MM and then add your thick and polish that out ! :O) M

Most all problems IMO with CA finishes are because of to cold a temp in the shop just my 2 cents :O) NO don't slop it on or close the finishing forum:O) [:0]


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## RussFairfield (Feb 11, 2007)

> _Originally posted by Pipes_
> <br />Most all problems IMO with CA finishes are because of to cold a temp in the shop just my 2 cents :O)



One small correction. You should have said:

"Most all problems with _ALL_ finishes are because it is too cold in the shop."

Regardless of the season, most of our finishing problems are caused by temperature and moisture. If we added in order, surface preparation, old finishing products, incompatable solvents and thinners, and application techniques, we would have 99% of our finishing problems covered.


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## Marc Phillips (Feb 11, 2007)

> _Originally posted by Pipes_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...



I think we need a finishing forum.... and I enjoy all the discussions, even though I am quite happy with the finish I get on my pens... I love learning, and helping others if I can... 

I was being tongue-in-cheek and a little sarcastic with saying "we should just slop it on and close the finishing forum"... I just felt that telling someone who is seeking help that _"I think folks WAY over think this CA thing ! I just put it on until I get nice coverage and Iam done ! Its NOT rocket science IMO anyway !"_ makes people who do need help feel belittled and embarrassed.

I am glad you have no problems with your CA finish... I don't either... although I have plenty of other problems that I am thoroughly enjoying trying to figure out with the help of people here... 

Replying to a request for help isn't rocket science... you just be helpful and polite and maybe even consider others feelings before you hit the post button ...

Of course, that is just my opinion... your mileage may vary [8D]


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## Pipes (Feb 11, 2007)

> _Originally posted by Marc Phillips_
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YOU sir are right and I sir was wrong ! I didn't take into consideration who and how the qustion was being asked ! I forget that a LOT a folks here are new to this and other things and I run off at the mouth ! I truly am sorry [B)][:I]

PIPES


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## Marc Phillips (Feb 12, 2007)

> YOU sir are right and I sir was wrong ! I didn't take into consideration who and how the qustion was being asked ! I forget that a LOT a folks here are new to this and other things and I run off at the mouth ! I truly am sorry [B)][:I]
> 
> PIPES



You're a class act Mr. Pipes sir... []

Onward we go!


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## mick (Feb 14, 2007)

Pipes, Maybe it is closer to "rocket Science" than we realize. Just think if one variable is changed, be it brand of glue or paper towel or how many time we wipe back and forth over the blank, this could be the making or breaking of a great finish! Heck I had 27 cents in my pocket and finished a pen Monday and it looked great! Tuesday I had a buck fifty ,finished a pen and it didnt take. Sometimes I think it matters how we hold our mouth! []

All kidding aside. I'm sure we all take the suggestions available here, modify them to suit our needs and go from there. I know I do! Every varible is important in a good finish and just because a certain finish works for, say Russ, doesn't mean it will work the same for me, or for Marc.

I don't say any of this to "prove" anyone or any method wrong. I'm just stating what I've found out over my short penmaking career, from experience and from what I've read and learned here. []


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## keithz (Feb 20, 2007)

FWIW, I use Russ's CA/BLO technique as close as possible to how he describes/demos it on his website.  I have not had a failed finish with it.

I have tried using accelerator with a paper towel and discovered, as Russ mentioned, that if it is left in contact with the wood too long, it truly does become part of the wood.

keithz


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