# Tankless Water Heaters



## JimGo (Feb 6, 2006)

Anybody have a tankless hot water heater?  In case you haven't heard about them, you can check out http://www.foreverhotwater.com and the Home Depot and Lowes web pages, among others.

I'm thinking of replacing our tank version with one.  Our current water heater isn't big enough for my wife and I to take showers back-to-back without the last person getting frozen out at the end of their shower.  We don't really have the room to increase the tank size, and I think the "on-demand" hot water concept will be a selling point for the house when we move.  Plus, since we only have electric heat for our hot water heater, the tankless kinds are supposed to be a lot more efficient, so our electricity costs should go down (as long as we don't start luxuriating in the shower on a regular basis!).  

I'm trying to find some good, relatively non-biased reviews of the various brands, including those carried by Home Depot, Lowes, etc., but so far I can't find anything reliable, so I thought I'd ask here.

Thanks in advance for any feedback!


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## Pen Man (Feb 6, 2006)

My company that I own has only put in about 10 of them. They have all been gas style. Have not heard of any complaints Yet.[]


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## Tangboy5000 (Feb 6, 2006)

We looked into it, but deceided to stick with a traditional tank.  The energy saving claims are not as advertised and the units are underated for their performance.  We heard the same thing from several installers, go at least double what the manufacturer claims it will handle.


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## JimGo (Feb 6, 2006)

Too bad you don't live closer Tom! []


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## dubdrvrkev (Feb 6, 2006)

I saw one of these on 'This old house' where they were remodeling. They were talking it up pretty good on there. 
Not that I will get one anytime soon (house is only 2 years old) but I am interested in them and if the occasion arose I would give it a good look. Not only the money savings, but how many times have tanks rusted through when people are gone and flooded the house, or garage/shop as it would be for me. Not too mention the space savings if you have it in a closet or basement. 
I am wondering if these are the wave of the future..? 
I don't know much savings I would have in the summer time because my garage keeps everything plenty warm. Summer I use about half hot on the dial and winter almost full hot.


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## DWK5150 (Feb 6, 2006)

Jim,

 I would advise to stay away.  They are not as good as the clam I have actually just remvoed a few units cause they arent able to keep up with demand and the draw high current so the savings in my book isnt there.  My recomendations is if you can get gas do it and then make sure all of your pipes are well insulated through out the house.  That actually makes a big difference.


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## JimGo (Feb 6, 2006)

Thanks Don!  I can't do gas, unfortunately.  I think the closest gas main is about 1/4 mile away at the entrance to our development!  How old were the units you removed?  Apparently there have been some pretty big advances in these units in the last 2-3 years, including advanced control systems that help stabilize the water temperature and improve the GPM flow through the unit.

As for the insulation, I think that's a good idea regardless of the hot water heater.  I did insulate all the exposed pipe, but the rest of the pipe is hidden and I'm reluctant to start making too many changes since it's mostly in the ceiling of my livingroom![]


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## Rifleman1776 (Feb 6, 2006)

I have heard good things about them. Friend has one, no complaint about keeping up with demand and the savings do seem to be there. My son built a lake house, builder reccomended one because of intermittent use. No complaints there either.


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## DWK5150 (Feb 6, 2006)

JIm,

They were all 3 and 4 years old.  The problems I have seen is if you have really hard water you will get scale build up on the coils rather quickly and also if you drain your lines in your house for some reason to do work you have to make sure YOU bleed all the air out of the heater.  They have automatic air bleeds on them and I have seen them fail.  Well when they get airbound they burn up the heating coil cause the water isnt there to keep them cool.  Seen that as well.  Yes they have sensors on them to try and prevent that from happening but sometimes but the time they kick in its to late.  Like the steam generators at work they run out of water they burn up instanly and new coils for those are $600 a pair.  I just dont care for them especially with what I have seen with them lately.


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## woodwish (Feb 6, 2006)

I have a small one in my shop and love it, but I still have a traditional unit in the house.  When it fails (25+ years old) I will consider replacing with an on-demand model.  It works well in the shop where keeping a load of hot water on hanc for irregular use just wouldn't make sense, in the house is a different story.  When we built we put in a big heater for the time, but now we have 3 teenage girls with showers, laundry, dishwasher, etc.  The only way I get a hot shower is to be the first one up, so every weekday I'm in there at 5:20 AM, and I am NOT a morning person. [}]


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## Skye (Feb 6, 2006)

We sell them at the local fas authority. Expensive but people love them.


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## Rudy Vey (Feb 6, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Skye_
> <br />We sell them at the local fas authority. Expensive but people love them.



I feel so bad for your friend....


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## jwoodwright (Feb 6, 2006)

Our Experience was Overseas.  We were Stationed in Spain and the Azores.  
These Heaters, run on Propape or Natural gas are great.  Turn on the Hot Water Tap, the Heater immediately starts and by the time your BVDs hit the floor, you're in warm water...

Bad News is these are not made for 80 psi water pressure...  We had 20-30 psi and they worked well...   You would need to put a pressure regulator to use one of those.  What flow rate are the New American Models?

Scale build-up for sure.  You have it in your big tank, just don't see it...  

How many people periodically drain their tank of sediment?  This is what kills Water Heaters... 

Less expensive that keeping 50-100 gals of water at 100*F.  

No Timebomb...  Seen the damage they can cause.  They can and will explode.

What do we have?  75 gallon Natural Gas Water Heater in a 8 year old House...[]


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## AirportFF (Feb 6, 2006)

I had one in my first house. It was absolutely worthless. How do you heat your house? If you have hydronic (baseboard) consider putting in an indirect water heater. It'll cost more initially for installation, but they are the most efficient way to heat water. A typical indirect will lose about 2 degrees in temp in a 24 hour period with no water use, where a typical water heater will fire or the elements will come on several times a day just to maintain temperature. The only thing is that since it is essentially adding another zone to your boiler (if that's howyou heat your home) you will need to leave your boiler on all year to have hot water. But like I said, the efficiency can't be beat.
Trust me, when I'm not at work at the firehouse, I'm a plumbing contractor.


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## JimGo (Feb 6, 2006)

Electric heat (heat pump) for our house, so it gets even more complicated!  We basically can only have some kind of electric water heater.

Thanks again for the feedback!


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## AirportFF (Feb 6, 2006)

What about a propane unit? If you use a power vent model you won't have to run vent pipe up the side of your house.


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## JimGo (Feb 6, 2006)

Good thought.  Our homeowner's association probably won't go for that.  It's a VERY restrictive complex.  Heck, I can't even put up a 6'x8'x8' shed in my back yard!


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## woodwish (Feb 6, 2006)

> _Originally posted by JimGo_
> <br />Good thought.  Our homeowner's association probably won't go for that.  It's a VERY restrictive complex.  Heck, I can't even put up a 6'x8'x8' shed in my back yard!



Sorry, but I would consider moving! []  I think our neighborhood covenents forbid: nuclear power plants and/or warheads, burying more than three people per acre, rap music, and UFO landings without proper permits.  I don't think I have violated any of those, yet![8D]


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## JimGo (Feb 6, 2006)

Some days, it's tempting Ray!


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## Doghouse (Feb 7, 2006)

Jim, I know your area and I would go crazy around there.  Just too many people with their noses in other peoples business.


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## Monty (Feb 7, 2006)

> _Originally posted by JimGo_
> <br />Anybody have a tankless hot water heater?



If your water is already hot, why do you want to heat it?[}][}][}]

Sorry, couldn't resist.


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## DWK5150 (Feb 7, 2006)

Jim
Im looking at the link you posted and it looks top me like those are gas only and not electric.  I thought that you need electric cause you dont have gas or am I just blind and not seeing the electrics?


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## Ryan (Feb 7, 2006)

I was talking to a plumber friend of mine about these a few weeks ago. He said it all depends on where you live. The tankless design will only heat the water about 60 degrees. If you live in the South/South West you will probably be fine with one. If it gets cold where you live. You would probably want to stay away from them. I am in UT and our water inlet during the winter is about 35 degrees. Raise that by 60 degrees and a 95 degree shower seems pretty cold to me.

I will stick with my 2 40gal natural gas water heaters.

Ryan


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## JimGo (Feb 7, 2006)

You are correct, Don - the Rennai water heaters are only gas-powered.  However, there are other companies that make electric heaters, and some that do propane-powered heaters.  I meant the link to Rennai to be more exemplary of the style of water heater, and not necessarily indicative of the particular model I intended to purchase.  Although, I'm disappointed, as I've heard good things about the Rennai.

Here are some other links to information on the tankless hot water heaters:
http://www.plbg.com/education-tankless-water-heaters.html

http://laminateflooring.oncloud8.com/archive.php/o_t__t_7191__tankless-water-heaters.html

http://www.plbg.com/forum/read.php?1,251346

http://www.plbg.com/forum/read.php?1,251140


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## JimGo (Feb 7, 2006)

Good point, thanks Ryan.  That concept is just starting to sink in for me.  Maybe a point-of-use tank might be a better answer, though I'll still have to figure out where to <s>hide</s>install it.


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## brobesky (Feb 7, 2006)

I have personally installed 4 tankless hot water heaters. I have no complaints about any of them. I have also never talked to a plumber who would recommend one mainly because they have never used one, nor installed one, nor, in most cases, seen one.

My gas bill in my home went from $30.00 per month to $7.00 per month and we never run out of hot water.

I have purchased all units through Home Depot. I recommend the one without the pilot light. Also, unless your water is very clean, I recommend a filter before the unit.


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## Doghouse (Feb 7, 2006)

Jim, beleive it or not, as long as you vapor isolate the "ROOM" you could have it in the garage.  Now the risk of a boom exists, but your electricity savings could be used to install a "marine" grade blowers system with battery backup.


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