# What Do You Think, Poor Plating and/or Customer Abuse?



## rd_ab_penman (Sep 10, 2012)

I sold this Berea Sierra Elegant Beauty Black Titanium/Platinum to a lady 14 months ago who has bought a lot of the higher end Berea pens from me and is one of her daily use pens that carries in here purse. 

She approached me at the Stettler Gun Show this past weekend and said there was a lot of wear on the plating. This is the first one she says she has ever had a problem with.

I couldn't believe what I saw!
The plating is definitely badly worn, but my problem is the fittings were also beat all to hell. 

The last two photos shows a comparison of new Black Titanium/Platinum fitting and the used Black Titanium/Platinum fittings.

Les


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## Haynie (Sep 10, 2012)

Looks like she should not have tossed it in her purse to rattle with the keys and make up cases, and and snub nosed .38 and whatever else women keep in their purses.


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## hewunch (Sep 10, 2012)

Haynie said:


> Looks like she should not have tossed it in her purse to rattle with the keys and make up cases, and and snub nosed .38 and whatever else women keep in their purses.



And 60 grit sand paper


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## Mason Kuettel (Sep 10, 2012)

Looks like that one spent a few months in the bottom of the change pocket of her purse!


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## Ruby pen turning (Sep 10, 2012)

Ha ...it looks to me like she dropped it in the driveway and found it a few weeks later. Definitely abuse. The end of the clip even has a dent in it. If it was me and she has purchased several pens from you, I would polish up the feather blank and put it on new hardware and lose the $10.00 on the kit. Then I would tell her it is not a Bic and not meant to be treated like one.


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## HoratioHornblower (Sep 10, 2012)

I looks like she let it ride in a very abrasive environment. I can't really see that much wear in the plating that would indicate a poor plating issue, but that might just be the pictures. If she has bought a lot from you then if I were you I would just replace the components and make her happy. But I also would instruct her about the proper protection of a pen. I tell my customers that it is a fine writing INSTRUMENT, so just like a instrument that you would play if you do not treat it very carefully then it probably will have scratches and may not work properly if it is abused. Most people get that before I tell them, but I try to tell them anyway so they don't expect it not to scratch if they drop it on concrete. My 2 cents, hopefully it helps a bit!
 
David


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## ed4copies (Sep 10, 2012)

You may want to suggest she use a "pen pouch".  Leather or just a "velveteen".  That is not wear, it is scratches.  Her fingers will not scratch it--it is  happening in her purse or, as has been suggested, on her driveway or the floor of her car.


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## airborne_r6 (Sep 10, 2012)

I carry a similar pen in my pocket on a daily basis and it looks about like that. Hers is a little worse than mine.


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## Jim Burr (Sep 10, 2012)

It looks like she didn't take very good care of it Les...purse pen no doubt.


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## alphageek (Sep 10, 2012)

airborne_r6 said:


> I carry a similar pen in my pocket on a daily basis and it looks about like that. Hers is a little worse than mine.



Same pocket as change or keys?

I agree with the above that it looks like wear from a harder object.   This is different than what happens when the platings wear from straight use.   I have a pen around that was a cheaper plating and it wore badly, but doesn't look like the above.


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## rd_ab_penman (Sep 10, 2012)

airborne_r6 said:


> I carry a similar pen in my pocket on a daily basis and it looks about like that. Hers is a little worse than mine.



How long have you been using your daily carry?
What is the kit and the plating?
Sounds like a plating ware issue and not abuse.
Would be interesting to see some photos so we could see the wear you refer to.

Les


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## edstreet (Sep 10, 2012)

This one I would have to say the problem is both.

1) The pen style in question is well known for very poor quality plating for starters.  
2) It appears the user has a ring on her right hand.

I did some basic testing few years ago on durability.  This is consistent with every day use.  The real problem here is a sub standard quality kit being used every day is way less than desirable conditions.  You need something very durable.


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## crabcreekind (Sep 10, 2012)

edstreet said:


> This one I would have to say the problem is both.
> 
> 1) The pen style in question is well known for very poor quality plating for starters.
> 2) It appears the user has a ring on her right hand.
> ...



I would agree to this besides the fact that the plating was rhodium and black titanium. What platings are better than those? I cant think of any.


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## robutacion (Sep 10, 2012)

Well I agree that this person uses that pen a lot so, is obvious that she needs something with a more durable plating however, is only so much any plating will take before damage starts to be apparent.

On the other hand, there is also another lesson to be learn from this pen and that is, the feather blanks used on it, has been put through "the works" and is still in great shape so, at least, that shows to be a hell of a strong barrel.  I don't know if the resin was simply polished or had the CA treatment, that would be something also of interest to know...!

We may need to have one of our "steal pen makers" gurus to make a stainless steal pen for her, certainly would resist scratches a lot more...!

As to what to do, only you are in the position to make that decision...!

Good luck.

Cheers
George


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## edstreet (Sep 10, 2012)

crabcreekind said:


> edstreet said:
> 
> 
> > This one I would have to say the problem is both.
> ...



rhodium is chrome plating and low quality chrome jobs does not hold up well at all


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## dexter0606 (Sep 10, 2012)

edstreet said:


> This one I would have to say the problem is both.
> 
> 1) The pen style in question is well known for very poor quality plating for starters.
> 2) It appears the user has a ring on her right hand.
> ...



I have to disagree with the poor plating statement. I do believe that this pen has seen some heavy, every day use but I don't believe for a second that it's a plating problem. I'm also not sure how the scratches are from a ring. I wear rings and I can't for the life of me figure out how a ring contacts the pen during normal handwriting, unless it's on the index finger.
I think this kind of scratching is due mostly to how the pen is stored.
I haven't had any trouble with this brand of pen, and I have quite a number of them in use.
As far as the original issue goes Les, I would replace the components and tell your customer that you think the reason for the scratches is the method of storage


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## edstreet (Sep 10, 2012)

dexter0606 said:


> edstreet said:
> 
> 
> > This one I would have to say the problem is both.
> ...



Did you overlook the massive color shift?

The other question is if the plating is good and all that then you would think the blank would have scratches and pitting as well   from the photo's they do not. Riddle me that one before you discredit the plating quality.

Scratches is indeed in how it is stored but every day use it will see loads of abuse which most of these kits are not designed to see.


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## jcm71 (Sep 10, 2012)

Les,
Concur with above comments.  Definitely scratches.   I did not notice any corresponding scratches on the pen blank.  CA finish??


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## dexter0606 (Sep 10, 2012)

Can you draw me a diagram on the ring contact?


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## dexter0606 (Sep 10, 2012)

edstreet said:


> crabcreekind said:
> 
> 
> > edstreet said:
> ...



The plating is black titanium


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## thewishman (Sep 10, 2012)

edstreet said:


> 1) The pen style in question is well known for very poor quality plating for starters.



I use Sierras and have sold them to customers around the world without hearing of plating problems. The durability of plating is a main reason why I continue to use them (the other key reason is the wonderful transmissions).


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## crabcreekind (Sep 10, 2012)

edstreet said:


> crabcreekind said:
> 
> 
> > edstreet said:
> ...



Rhodium is a completely different element than chromium. And it is in the precious metal group, which is why they use it in jewelry.


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## Tom Foster (Sep 10, 2012)

I had a similar problem with a pen that I had made for my wife.  I found out that she carried it in her purse where she carried emery boards that she used on her finger nails.  You might want to inquire if this is the case with your customer.


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## PaulDoug (Sep 10, 2012)

Well my opinion means nothing but it has never stopped me from giving it.  To me it looks like both, abused and weak plating.  But what would I do about it?  I'd replace the components and give it back to her with a pouch to put it in.  You stated she had bought a lot of higher end pens  from you, I'd want to keep her happy.


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## jaywood1207 (Sep 10, 2012)

edstreet;1442233

The other question is if the plating is good and all that then you would think the blank would have scratches and pitting as well :)  from the photo's they do not. Riddle me that one before you discredit the plating quality.

Scratches is indeed in how it is stored but every day use it will see loads of abuse which most of these kits are not designed to see.[/QUOTE said:
			
		

> Too me it looks like the blank is pretty scratched as well.
> 
> Les can you show us the blank or confirm if the blank is scratched as badly as the hardware.  If it is then I think it is definitely "abuse" from storage method.  My recommendation is to replace based on the fact she is a repeat and good customer and recommend a different way to store it in her purse.  This pen looks very similar to one actually 2 I made my wife and it was plain abuse from rattling around in her purse.


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## dexter0606 (Sep 10, 2012)

jaywood1207 said:


> edstreet;1442233
> 
> The other question is if the plating is good and all that then you would think the blank would have scratches and pitting as well :)  from the photo's they do not. Riddle me that one before you discredit the plating quality.
> 
> ...


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## edstreet (Sep 10, 2012)

Jamie, I agree with you on that and I am quite shocked that no one else brought up that fact before I did but it's out now and being addressed 

Black Titanium is a 0.05 to 1.5 micro plating of Ti-6Al-4V, for those that are not bladesmiths that is 4% vanadium, 6% aluminum and the rest titanium. Basically in a nutshell it is a titanium-aluminum-nitride coating.  As you can see 0.05 to 1.5 microns is HUGE.  Now do I need to post a new topic and ask "how thick is your plating?" like I did with the CA coat? 

As for the rings comment I was going by patterns on the clip vs patterns on the ends. there is a vast difference in type of scratches, the ones on the clip looks almost like some type of ring, could be something else to, is contacting it in a linear manner vs the 2 ends is circular which indicates vibration which is being loose in a bag.  Of all the sanding we do on these damn things we should be very much in tune with scratch patterns and what they are 


Ed


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## edstreet (Sep 10, 2012)

Crap, hold on I need to edit my above post about the plating, just been informed that I am wrong on a few points.


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## Ruby pen turning (Sep 10, 2012)

With that pen it does not matter what the plating is. Even if it was a solid black Ti Rhodium etc... I know Ed it would be imposable, it would still be scratch because the pen is clearly been abused and not treated like an expensive should be treated.


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## edstreet (Sep 10, 2012)

Thickness can be anywhere from 0.1 microns to 10.0 microns.  Titanium plating may not contain titanium.  The titanium used may not always be G23 but G23 is a common one that is used. For tools i.e. drill bits, 1-7 microns.

'Black Titanium' is TiAIN, i.e. Titanium aluminium nitride , the aluminium % is well over 50% commonly 70%.  This is the heavy industrial one anyways.  What they are putting on pens I am pretty sure is vastly different as there is a distinct change in the plating over time.  Coating cost is also around $2.50 to $4 per item depending on size.  My suspicion is some type of anodized dyed aluminum plating.


---

Either way I dont wish to derail the topic and getting back on topic education and communication is always critical in sales.  With every knife I make I give them a crash course in usage, cleaning, storage.  Something that I wish all makers would do.  Ultimately I would think the previously mentioned pen bag would be the best choice.


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## mikespenturningz (Sep 11, 2012)

I think I would be happy to see a pen come back like that after 14 months. She obviously uses her pens and she should be able to keep one in her pocketbook but, she should expect it to get that kind wear. There is a stainless steel version of that pen on lazerlinez that is a bit more expensive but would also show wear after being run around a pocketbook with her 44 Mag. I wonder if she would be offended if you repair it and simply charge her for the components? She could get this done every year and have a beautiful pen? After all this type of pen can be assembled in just a few minutes! Or you could offer a rebuild option for say 2x the kit price?


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## Tom D (Sep 11, 2012)

Looks like one I keep in my tool box and shares the same space as hammers, pliers etc.


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## OLDMAN5050 (Sep 11, 2012)

It has for sure been abused.......... thrown in a purse along with other loose items.........


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## Carl Fisher (Sep 11, 2012)

Ask her if she feels that a $10 charge for repair sounds fair to her and throw a new kit on it.  Polish up the blank while it's apart and send it back to her good as new.  $10 every 14-months of use for restoring a nice feather blank pen like that shouldn't be viewed as an issue by a customer if it's explained properly.


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## dankc908 (Sep 13, 2012)

That could, also, have happened in her washing machine!


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## gbpens (Sep 13, 2012)

All of the comments on the cause of the scratches are right on target. However, if you can, replace the pen with a nice sleeve and remind her about the effect of keys, etc. She sounds like a customer you want to keep and a replacement would go a long way to keeping her loyalty. Sometimes we just have torecognize we do not live in a perfect world and that our "customers" can do some of the dumbest things we can imagine. Just like we do sometimes.


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## sbell111 (Sep 13, 2012)

She's a repeat customer of high end pens and the pen in question probably sold for quite a bit.  As such, I would dissassemble the pen, polish the barrel, and replace the components.  I would return it to her in some sort of pen pouch or leather case and have a conversation about keeping the pen protected while it is rattling around in her purse.


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## ve3bax (Sep 13, 2012)

looks a lot like my daily carry pen after i drove over it (sierra, still works fine btw! clip was a casualty though)


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## Traguh (Sep 13, 2012)

I carry the click version of that pen in my shirt pocket and have done so on a daily basis for quite some time, I'm on about my third or fourth refill. Mine looks nothing like that! With the exception of a scuff here and there mine still looks close to what it did the day I assembled it. I'm with the others, she needs a pen sleeve or something to keep it away from the sand paper and blasting materials.


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## Fishinbo (Sep 14, 2012)

A pen as beautiful as this should be taken cared of.  A pen case perhaps?


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