# Funline vs slimline



## jasonmac73 (Mar 6, 2018)

I'm trying to figure out the difference between the two.  Price obviously but what is different that makes the slimline cost more than a funline?

I'm not complaining about price but curious the difference.  I personally detest these pens but many people want me to make them.  Customer is always right.  I like the slimline PRO myself because it's bigger, gel ink, and click pen.


----------



## CREID (Mar 6, 2018)

The plating on the funline is not as good as it is on the slimline. I THINK that PSI gives a guarantee on the plating of the gold slimline. Also, I have heard that on the funlines the transmission may not be as good but I can't verify that.


----------



## magpens (Mar 6, 2018)

Slimline Pro is my pick also for the reasons you gave.  I make it as a single barrel without the center band, and I also make it without any brass tubes at all.

I have not made any Funlines, but I don't like slimlines because of the small material thickness at the barrel ends.

Here is PSI's own blurb about the Funline .... kinda leaves you wondering .... the red part is indeed red in their website listing ....

"Our new Funline Slimline Pen Kits offer some of the best values on the  market and come in 6 different platings. This new Funline Slimline  Chrome pen kit includes an attractive ball clip and oriental style band.  *Note: Our lifetime warranty does not apply to this line. (must order in quantities of 5)"*


----------



## jasonmac73 (Mar 6, 2018)

The fact they don't guaranty is an indication they use inferior materials.  Just curious what part is inferior.  I can believe it is the plating.  I've had others complain of chipping


----------



## CREID (Mar 7, 2018)

Well, there is in both the funline and slimline 
A nib end
A center band
A finial end 
And a clip
Along with a transmission, 2 brass tubes and a cheap refil.
But along with the funline PSI clearly states that the lifetime waranty does not apply to the funlines. Ask people that have made both and they will tell you that the plating is not as good on the funlines and that as I have said before the transmission being not as good has been brought up.
Your not talking a lot of money between the two, but the funlines are meant as a cheap fun pen to make. They make no bones about the fact you get what you pay for.


----------



## magpens (Mar 7, 2018)

jasonmac73 said:


> The fact they don't guaranty is an indication they use inferior materials.  Just curious what part is inferior.  I can believe it is the plating.  I've had others complain of chipping




It can't be anything but the plating.

The rest is brass and a little bit of steel in the clip.  The brass and steel will be the last to fail.

Everybody is concerned about the plating ... that's what you see and touch.


----------



## Argo13 (Mar 7, 2018)

I got PSi fun line starter pack years ago when I started. Plating was the biggest fail. Gold plating was not good but the satin finishes were the worst. The chrome was ok. The transmission were fine. I still make slim lines but won’t use the fun line kits.

Jason


----------



## vmsherp (Mar 7, 2018)

Same experiences here. Satin platings just rubbed right off while traveling in a display case. Not worth it for a dollar savings, your customers deserve the best quality. 


Sent from my iPhone using Penturners.org mobile app


----------



## monophoto (Mar 7, 2018)

When you buy cheap, you get cheap.


----------



## Wagner11 (Mar 7, 2018)

I had some ordered at one time.  Couldn't speak for the plating as they never really got used.  However in the ten kits I had every single transmission felt like it was full of sand when turned.  They aren't worth your time. 

Sent from my SM-S975L using Tapatalk


----------



## jasonmac73 (Mar 7, 2018)

That makes complete sense.  I have had a couple that the plating has come off of.  I have not experienced a bad transmission though.  

I'm tossing my funline kits and re-ordering the regular slimlines.  I just told a lady that I will have to remake her pen because I do not want my name attached to crappy work.  

Thanks for the advice and detailing the differences.  That helps me a lot!


----------



## Dehn0045 (Mar 7, 2018)

Throughout last year I made about 70 pens that I gave to coworkers, most of them were funlines, simply due to cost.  I pretty much stuck with gun metal and chrome.  I'd say they are fine for give-away, I see a lot of them around the office that folks still use regularly.  I definitely like the Berea Hardwoods Slimline the most out of all the slimlines I've tried, the mechanism tends to be a little stiff, but the plating is much better and the styling of the clip is better IMHO.


----------



## CREID (Mar 7, 2018)

Dehn0045 said:


> Throughout last year I made about 70 pens that I gave to coworkers, most of them were funlines, simply due to cost.  I pretty much stuck with gun metal and chrome.  I'd say they are fine for give-away, I see a lot of them around the office that folks still use regularly.  I definitely like the Berea Hardwoods Slimline the most out of all the slimlines I've tried, the mechanism tends to be a little stiff, but the plating is much better and the styling of the clip is better IMHO.


I don't use funlines but for the slimlines I also stick to chrome and gunmetal, they seem to hold up well and still cheap compared to the more expensive finishes they have for slimlines that go for over 6$.


----------



## jasonmac73 (Mar 7, 2018)

I don't really like turning them but for some reason people like that really skinny look.  For me, 8mm is the perfect size.  I like turning the larger more expensive pens but I don't like writing with them.  

I really like the stuff at Berea Hardwoods but I do not want to buy new bushings and drill bits so I just stick with the PSI stuff.


----------



## magpens (Mar 7, 2018)

jasonmac73 said:


> I really like the stuff at Berea Hardwoods but I do not want to buy new bushings and drill bits so I just stick with the PSI stuff.



Strongly recommend you make the transition to turning between centers without using any bushings ... ever. . The cost is only a pair of calipers and a very short learning curve. . The little extra time per pen is more than offset by the added satisfaction of a pen which meets the specs more closely and also meets your expectations of what the result should be.

The frustration and expense of dealing with bushings and finding the right ones when you "need" them is gone.

Happy to help you get there if you want to fire off any questions you have.


----------



## Dehn0045 (Mar 7, 2018)

I'm with Mal, one $15 digital calipers has save me loads of money on bushings.  I do a lot of kits where I only make 1 or 2 pens, the freedom is nice.  You can do the same thing with a mandrel, not just TBC... Though I prefer TBC.


----------



## jasonmac73 (Mar 7, 2018)

Are there special tbc bushings to use?   I have digital calipers already.  


Sent from my iPhone using Penturners.org mobile app


----------



## Dehn0045 (Mar 7, 2018)

Just a dead center and live center, mount the brass between the two cones.  There are bushings that have 60 degree tapered end (TBC bushings), these fit snug on the centers and slide into the brass on the other end.  IMHO just between centers is best.


----------



## magpens (Mar 7, 2018)

Yes, there are special TBC bushings ... but they are still bushings, and once you get started without bushings you won't miss them.

The TBC bushings are more expensive and you can't get them off the shelf for every pen kit.  You can, of course, get any bushings you want made for you ... member Nikitas and several others can help you here.

One more thing that came to mind .... there are some alternatives to conventional mandrels that have fairly recently come on the market ... BEWARE and read some reports about them here on IAP before buying.


----------



## jasonmac73 (Mar 7, 2018)

I like the idea of turning between centers without bushings.  I just need to get a dead center.  Never had a need for one but this sounds like a great idea to get one now.  Thanks!


----------



## magpens (Mar 7, 2018)

What I use as a dead center is a diamond cone ... higher friction than a plain steel cone.

It is actually intended for sharpening mortise chisels.  Got mine from Lee Valley.  Grizzly and HF and other companies almost certainly sell them ... about $35 per set of two (slightly different angles, but that is irrelevant in this application).  It works great for me.


----------



## Brotherdale (Mar 7, 2018)

magpens said:


> Slimline Pro is my pick also for the reasons you gave.  I make it as a single barrel without the center band, and I also make it without any brass tubes at all.
> *Note: Our lifetime warranty does not apply to this line. (must order in quantities of 5)"*



Mal, how do you make it with no tube? Can you do that with wood?
I have been making slimline pros with a single 8mm tube. I bought a pack of 10 tubes 10 inches long from exotic blanks.


----------



## magpens (Mar 7, 2018)

Yes, Dale, you can put in a long tube and leave off the center band.

I like to make my pens a bit thicker in the middle than the kit allows for.  I go for up to 0.560" diameter, but 0.480" is OK, or even less.
Without the center band that is obviously possible.  See my pen #4 in the BASH Kitless Contest this year. . It is made this way.

Another thing that works in your favor is that the center hole can be drilled to a smaller diameter than if you use a tube.  You only have to allow for insertion of the Parker refill which is 0.227" (drill it a bit bigger than that - I use a 15/64" drill = 0.234").

And I have found that with the extra thickness, the wood barrel is strong enough. . I use both wood and acrylic as well as metal.
The beauty of the single barrel is that it really shows off your blank and your work. . I don't use any fragile woods.

Did you know that you can buy the click mechanism for the Slimline Pro from Wood-N-Whimsies.com ? . Search for CLICKMECH on their website.  But that item is just the 3 plastic parts of the mechanism ... they do not supply the top-end spring that comes in the Slimline Pro kit in addition to the standard Parker refill spring.  But I have, as of today, found a source for that extra spring ... it really is better to have it in there if you are making a custom click ballpoint pen ... although things might work without.

So while I say that the pen barrel is strong enough without the internal brass tube, I have not tried standing on it or even sitting on it ! :biggrin:

Note:  As stated by PSI for the Funline kits, I have to qualify my warranty to customers ..... (of which I don't have any yet !!) .....

*Note: Our lifetime warranty does not apply to this line. :biggrin:

*


----------



## Dr_N (Mar 7, 2018)

Happy to help you get there if you want to fire off any questions you have.[/QUOTE]

I'll hijack your offer to help!  What is your approach to sanding and polishing the blanks when done between centers?  I tried a couple blanks this way and seemed to round over the ends of the blank losing that nice crisp, square, edge where the blank meets the hardware.  I'd love to give up the bushings!


----------



## magpens (Mar 8, 2018)

I am going to make a political reply to you, Dr_N.  

And in keeping with that stance, I am going to ask how many pen blanks/kits you have assembled in the few weeks you have been on the membership here !  :biggrin:

Have you actually tried to avoid bushings ? . Can you think of any strategies to deal with the issues you raise ?  Perhaps you can contribute your solutions.

One suggestion might be to avoid kits that require a razor sharp transition between the turned/sanded barrel and the (usually) metal hardware. . Many people on here have actually stated that they prefer to turn their blanks a bit oversize and deliberately round the blank ends a little bit. .  A lot is personal preference. . I think penturning is as much an art as it is a science ... and it is certainly not a precise science that can be controlled by levels and protractors.

So how have you coped ?

Have you read any posts in which the writer has recommended using skew chisels to turn the blanks so precisely and smoothly that no sanding is required ?

I might get slammed for this response, but so be it.  This is indeed a thread about Slimlines vs Funlines and it might be time to start a new thread ... a thread which can attract the participation of the people who are true experts. .  My offer to help is out there, but I was actually doing that with regard to the basic mechanics of the turning-between-centers-without-bushings techniques.

Back to you.


----------



## magpens (Mar 8, 2018)

Dr_N,

Just reread what I wrote and it seems kinda harsh ... sorry about that. 

I really do think it is the subject of a new thread ... perhaps you will start.

BTW, have you seen this (you are interested in Android as I recall)

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f302/android-version-iap-app-ready-153616/


----------



## jasonmac73 (Mar 8, 2018)

Magpens,

I did not see any diamond cones on the dead center so I just got a standard one.  How easily will the brass tube distort and the end becomes flared from over tightening?  I suppose if that happens, a drop of CA during assembly and problem solved.


----------



## magpens (Mar 8, 2018)

Re: diamond cones ... you have to look a bit harder for them.  In fact, the idea of using them for this purpose only came to me after I saw some diamond cones on clearance sale at Lee Valley.  I have found that in the pen-making "business" you look at everything as potentially used for our purpose and, if you do that, innovative ideas pop up from time to time.

As for the brass tube distorting / flaring due to over tightening the tail stock ... You have to learn what works.  You have to tighten a bit more than with mandrel/bushings, but there is not the worry that you might think. .  You see, the brass tube is by now glued into the blank and is supported thereby. .  So a little ... I would not call it flaring ... can occur ... let's call it "tapered enlarging".  The end of the brass tube will SLIGHTLY take on the 60* shape of the center at both ends but that is not a problem because the brass portion affected this way is quite short.  A little such tapering is OK.

Some people even deliberately ream the end of the brass tube routinely to make the insertion of the kit hardware a little easier to start.

If you want to apply a little glue, you can, but put the glue inside the brass tube ... just a small amount.  Do not put the glue on the component part that you are pushing into the brass tube. . Use epoxy for this, not CA.  CA cures too quickly and you might have your component get solidly stuck before you have fully pushed it in.

Hope that helps.


----------



## Dehn0045 (Mar 8, 2018)

Mal, does your diamond cone have a round shank, all I could find are hex like this one: https://www.amazon.com/Diamond-Repl...pID=411WDa7S3kL&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch

Nevermind, searched on Lee Valley (duh) and found these: http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=41702&cat=1,180,42240,53317


----------



## magpens (Mar 8, 2018)

Sam .... I bought mine at Lee Valley .....

.... yes, those are the ones in your second link .... they have round shanks


----------



## jasonmac73 (Mar 8, 2018)

Thanks for the advice.  I will give it a try on Saturday when my dead center arrives.  I like the idea of turning without bushing.  Lots aof stuff I read about turning between centers involves using bushings.  I don't get turning between centers with bushings.  Might as well put on a mandrel at that point.


----------



## magpens (Mar 8, 2018)

That's right ... the mandrel does add another problem or two, though.

As long as you have bushings you are going to have errors, maybe small, but errors and inconsistencies none the less.  The tolerances on all bushings are significant and you will get slight out of round.  Dead and live centers are made to better tolerances and by their geometrical shape allow much better centering of your work.


----------



## Dr_N (Mar 8, 2018)

magpens said:


> I am going to make a political reply to you, Dr_N.
> 
> And in keeping with that stance, I am going to ask how many pen blanks/kits you have assembled in the few weeks you have been on the membership here !  [emoji3]
> 
> ...



Honestly, as a fellow educator, I'm surprised that you aren't more accepting of those who are trying to learn/improve their technique.  I've taught wood shop for 11 years, so I'm pretty familiar with the various ins and outs of working with wood and plastics.  You had offered help with eliminating bushings and I thought I would pick the brain of someone with far greater experience with it than I.

If anyone needs to know, I have probably completed 18-20 pens since joining IAP, but in the past 8 years or so of making pens casually I could not accurately say how many I have made.  I did not think that the number of pens made would increase the value of a person's questions or interest in improving.

As I had stated, I have not tried many times without bushings, and almost exclusively use bushings.  I recognize many of the issues associated with their use.  I have interest in moving beyond bushings, which led to my questions about moving in that direction.

Perhaps my question does belong in a new or different thread, but let's not overlook that the original intent of this post was comparing slimline and funline pens, and I was not the one who made the first off topic post suggesting between centers turning without bushings.  We have further derailed the intent of the original poster with this conversation. 

I appreciate that you have taken notice of many of my other posts since your initial response, and have provided some valuable answers to some of my other questions.  It's good information like that that encouraged me to move from browsing the forum to joining.  I hope to continue learning from you and all the other good people on this forum.  There is much to be leaned.


----------



## magpens (Mar 8, 2018)

Yes, you are right.  I am very sorry.

I had just finished reading/listening to newscasts about politics in Washington and feeling infuriated and I took it out on your post.

I feel totally sorry for you guys south of the border.

Very sorry indeed and it won't happen again.

I tried to come back and delete most of my post (you can't delete completely because of this software) but it was too late (one hour limit)

Please send me an email (not a PM) if you want to discuss further.  Thanks . I'll try to make up for my hasty, rude response.


----------



## Dr_N (Mar 8, 2018)

magpens said:


> Dr_N,
> 
> Just reread what I wrote and it seems kinda harsh ... sorry about that.
> 
> ...


After reading your post, I did try a quick slimline this evening without bushings, but still on a mandrel, and did get better results.  I think some of the questions you posed made me think more about my approach.  Baby steps!

I got the Android app, thanks for thinking of me though!


----------



## Dr_N (Mar 8, 2018)

magpens said:


> Yes, you are right.  I am very sorry.
> 
> I had just finished reading/listening to newscasts about politics in Washington and feeling infuriated and I took it out on your post.
> 
> ...


No worries, I appreciate that you are willing to share your experiences to make us all better...even the bad ones [emoji2]


----------

