# Need a little advice from you 'Bowlers'.



## karlkuehn (May 1, 2008)

Well, the pots are full and curing, so I'm waiting around and working on my third bowl, they're slowly getting a little bigger as I learn, but I'm a tad stumped.

I started with one of my box elder blanks that's basically a bias cut cross section off one of the limbs from my tree. Here's the blank I'm working on:












I wanted to see what my new roughing gouge was capable of (just finished the handle...heh), so I screwed a face plate on this, lopped a couple of the bigger 'corners' off the blank, and then proceeded to wobble the buhjeezus out of my shop roughing it down on the lowest speed. This basically equated into 20 minutes of 'WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK!" and me worrying about snapping my tool rest off or destroying my lathe bed or something. My little Rikon chugged through until I had it round enough to speed it up a little without vibrating the windows out of their panes. 

Sidenote: the Patience & Nicholson 1" roughing gouge whooped some serious tail on this blank, I'm going to be cleaning shavings off my top shelves for weeks...heh. I did sharpen it once in the middle of all this, there were some mineral deposits (dirt and mud) in the edge bark, and it cleaned off the scary sharp pretty good.

Here's what I ended up with; I really like the shape that I'm seeing form, but I need to either turn a dovetailed foot on there to grab with the scroll chuck, a dovetailed inset to 'reverse' grab with the scroll chuck, or glue on a waste block to turn into a foot. If it helps, the dimensions are 7 1/2" diameter and 2 3/8" tall, er...thick? []
















I'm leaning towards the waste block, because I like the height that I have, and I'm not sold on the dovetailed inset holding the bowl on there good enough without splitting out the bowl. I've never tried the inset method yet, I'm just going on gut instinct about how the blank has felt thus far...box elder's not the toughest wood in the world, so I'm concerned about popping off a piece of the bottom if I crank the chuck into the inset.

Ultimately, in my limited experience, the dovetailed foot has been very stable. What are your thoughts on the aesthetic design of the bowl, do I have enough height that I can turn a foot on there and turn it away later, while still preserving the shape that I'm aiming at?

Any thoughts/comments/questions and guidance would be appreciated! Aside from reading a bunch of books and watching videos from guys who make all this look reeeeaallly easy, I'm sorta wingin' it. While I learn, I'm looking for something stable that will support a quasi-catastrophic catch or two while I gather experience with flute angles and riding bevels and 'holy crap, what'd I do wrong that time!?'.

Thanks! []


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## winpooh498 (May 1, 2008)

I have no advice for you,[B)] but that blank is awesome and I like the shape so far! Hope that helps.


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## MarkHix (May 1, 2008)

The wood is too pretty to waste.  I would glue on a waste block to turn it.  I started out with tenons and recesses and have gradually moved to using a waste block all the time.  It may sound strange but I have even used the waste block in the chuck because I only have 2 face plates.  The shape is looking good.  Be sure and post a finished picture so we can drool on our keyboards.


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## karlkuehn (May 1, 2008)

Thanks Dawn! I'm still looking at it, trying to decide whether I can trim 1/4" off the bottom for a foot or not.

I held my thumb up there and closed one eye while I was looking at it, but nothing happened. I really wish I knew why those artsy fartsy people did that. For what's it's worth, anyone who happened to be watching thought I was really knowledgeable. In reality, after the first second or so, all I was doing was assessing whether or not I could peel the little hangnail off my thumb without it hurting. heh


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## karlkuehn (May 1, 2008)

Mark, thanks for the reply! I'm like you, I've just got a few limited tools, and my cheapy ($65, when did that become cheap!?) scroll chuck has been great for lidded boxes and stuff, but I'm wishing that I had a name brand chuck that I could 'accessorize' with a set of those cool big flat jaws with the little rubber knobbies on them to grip the bowl when I flip it around to and clean up the bottom for the last step. I've got a good bit of MDF scraps, so turning a jam chuck is what I'll probably do when I go to finish the bottom.

I'm going to have to step up to a good Vic or Oneway eventually, I guess, not because I can't make it work 'old school', but because there's better tools out there to be able to knock stuff out quicker while saving as much wood as I can. I'm really pleased with the way this BE is looking. I've got a bunch of this wood left, and I'm happy that even the limbs are turning out so well.


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## JayDevin (May 2, 2008)

waste block, just make sure the bottom is level so you dont have a rocker


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## rlharding (May 2, 2008)

I wouldn't use a waste block.  I would turn a small recess - about 3/16th.  I would also completely finish the outside before turning it around.

You may want to experiment with turning between centre the next one you do. You can turn pretty much outside and most of the inside.  By turning a foot you won't need face plates.


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## CrazyBear (May 2, 2008)

Hi Karl... I would go for a glue on scrap piece for that bowl.

On the next one I would try and cut it round on a band saw (if you have one) before mounting it on the lathe. It takes out a lot of the whack - whack - whack and is easier on the nerves


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## holmqer (May 2, 2008)

Normally I turn a foot, or recess, but in this case I think a foot would waste too much of some very nice looking wood. Is the wood dry enough for a waste block to glue to? I have never tried this wood, so I am not sure how prone it is to having a recess break while turning the inside.


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## dalemcginnis (May 2, 2008)

Waste block.


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## Ron in Drums PA (May 2, 2008)

> _Originally posted by karlkuehn_
> *I wanted to see what my new roughing gouge was capable of* (just finished the handle...heh), so I screwed a face plate on this, lopped a couple of the bigger 'corners' off the blank, and then proceeded to wobble the buhjeezus out of my shop roughing it down on the lowest speed. This basically equated into 20 minutes of 'WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK!" a



*NEVER, EVER* use a roughing gouge to rough out a bowl. Not only can you break the tang off the tool, but you can cause serious injury to yourself!


Both a waste block and a recess will work. 

If you are going to let this wood dry before finishing than I would use a waste block. Remember you will need two perfectly flat mating surfaces.

If you are going green to finish I would use a recess. All you need is a 1/8 dovetail recess slightly rounder then your chuck. (2"chuck = 2-1/8" recess)

Completely finish the outside, Remove from chuck and insert a paper towel in the recess and insert chuck. I'm not sure how big the base is, but if it less than 3.5"-4" you need to be careful not to tighten the chuck to much, wood can split you know.

BTW - Do you know that that red is going to fade and turn brown?


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## alamocdc (May 2, 2008)

Karl, you can actually go two ways with this: 1) waste block as has been mentioned, and 2) slightly dovetailed recess (also mentioned). Either way will yield about the same result. I sbsolutely would not turn a tenon on this piece b/c of the waste involved. However, a 3/16" recess like Ruth said won't really waste any wood compared to the waste block idea. Why so, you ask? I'm glad you asked. The waste difference between the two will be quite minimal because since you'll lose some off the bottom getting it flat for a good glue surface for the waste block. If you don't feel comfortable with a 3/16" recess, make it 1/4". One sixteenth inch difference is no big deal really.

Now hurry up and get it finished so we can see it.


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## TellicoTurning (May 2, 2008)

Karl,
I tend to use the recessed dovetail for the reverse chucking, but I think this is too nice to cut into the bottom... the waste block will save wood on the bottom.  Biggest problem will be that you need to make sure the bottom is absolutly flat so you get a good seat on the waste block, then when you cut it off, you'll have to clean up the bottom some and make sure it comes back to flat so the bowl sits level... with the recessed dovetail, you shouldn't run into that as a problem.

BTW, that is some outrageously beautiful wood.


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## Aderhammer (May 2, 2008)

Karl, since you want a cole jaw set but can't afford one, search for longsworth chuck.  You can make it yourself and should only cost about $20 in material to make


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## workinforwood (May 2, 2008)

I feel silly now...I read the title and thought you needed advice on how to improve your bowling skills as a sport.  you're bowl is looking pretty nice to me.  I will leave the advice on turning a bowl to the experts as I break more than I make.


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## tomahawk54 (May 2, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Ron in Drums PA_
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He was able to get away with using a roughing gouge on this blank safely because it's in spindle grain orientation, not typical bowl grain.


I would turn a recess and use a chuck in expansion mode. just take light cuts and you'll be fine.


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## Ron in Drums PA (May 2, 2008)

> _Originally posted by tomahawk54_
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Sorry, Wrong Answer. It's the size thats the problem


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## DocStram (May 2, 2008)

Hey Karl ... next time, fire up your bandsaw.  

Now that you have it this far ... I lean towards the waste block.  The recess and expansion chuck could work but ....  first try a little experiment (over a rug).

Take a glass and hold it in your hand with your fingers wrapped around it. Now, try to work it loose with the other hand.

Next, turn the glass over and put your finger tips about 1/2" inside the glass holding it with your finger pressing out against the inside of the glass.  Just like your expansion mode of your chuck.  Now try to work it loose with the other hand. 

See what I mean?  

You can use your chuck in expansion mode, but .. be ready to duck. 

My vote is ... waste block.


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## Draken (May 2, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Ron in Drums PA_
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And is is a bad habit that he's better off not even starting.  Just because he was "able to get away with it" doesn't make it any safer.  Go for the bowl gouge next time.  I don't want to see any more gory injury photos. [xx(]  I also agree with rounding it a bit more with either a chain saw or a bandsaw to prevent the Whack-Whack part.

Nice looking bowl which ever way you go with with it.  I tend to use tenons, then shape the remaining wood.  Harder to do that if the shape is determined first.  I do like the profile you came up with, can't wait to see the finished roughout and final product.


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## Fred (May 3, 2008)

Since I now turn more bowls than anything else I might offer my opinion along with the others here.

I have found that a dovetail is best for me when turning my bowls. I turn many that are 12" or better and find the dovetail to work very well. When finished with the bowl I use one of the rim chucks from Chick & Duck manufacturing to hold onto to the outside edge of the rim. Then I go back to the dovetailed area and actually trim away the dovetail and make a slightly domed area inside. This makes folks wonder how in the world I ever mounted the bowl on the lathe.

The rim chuck is rather expensive, but it sure does make working on the base of the turning very easy. This particular rim chuck is heavier that all the others I considered. After a bit of experience with it, one begins to wonder how they got along without it.

Here is the website if you are interested. BTW, Richard is quite a character and is fun to talk to. Be patient if you order one since they don't make very many at one time. The time spent in waiting is very well worth the end results.

http://www.chickandduckmfg.com/

Hurry and finish your bowl and be sure to post the pictures.


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## MarkHix (May 3, 2008)

The rim chuck is a great tool.  I use the "home version".  I found it on somebody's website.  I don't remember who.  It is 2 pieces; a base on a face plate and a donut looking piece that holds the bowl to the base.  Three bolts hold it place.  Works like the "professional" model and only cost me $1 for the bolts and wing nuts.


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