# Lens Suggestions



## amboyna

I have a Nikon D80. The only lens I have for it is a Nikkor 24-120mm f/3.5 AF VR lens. I have had no luck taking pen photos with this lens, despite what the people at Ritz Cameras told me. I have a light tent I built. Even that does not help. So I'm thinking of getting a Macro lens. One I've been reading about is a 55mm f/2.8 Micro Nikkor AIS. This is a manual focus lens. And that is ok.
I just was curious as to what the professionals think of this lens. Or maybe suggestions on another lens. Thanks in advance


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## Dudley Young

I use an 18-200 VR Nikor lens on a D50.


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## penmaker56

Look for the Nikon 60mm f/2.8 micro, either the old or the newer VR, your camera's features will work with those lenses.


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## amboyna

Dudley Young said:


> I use an 18-200 VR Nikor lens on a D50.



Are you saying the lens I have will work?


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## amboyna

penmaker56 said:


> Look for the Nikon 60mm f/2.8 micro, either the old or the newer VR, your camera's features will work with those lenses.



Richard,
   I did see the 60mm. That one may be too expensive for me. 
Looks like a great lens though. Reviews on it were awesome.
Maybe if I get some money I can swing it though.


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## G1Pens

The purpose of a macro lens is extreme close ups. That is not what you need to take suscessful photos of your pen. The lens you have should be the ideal lens. You should be using it showhere around 90-100 mm. If you put it on a tripod (which you should) you should turn off the vR feature to keep the focus sharp. Thowing money at a new lens will not fix whatever problem you are having. It may be a good excuse to get a new lens, but it will not fix your problems 

If you want to PM me and tell me what troubles you are having I will be glad to help as much as I can.


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## widows son

I use a Sigma 105 macro, I have had shorter macro lenses but prefer something longer than 55mm. The longer lens allows me to work further away from the subject. The Sigma produces excellent quality images. The 85mm Nikon is about the same price and a great lens as well. I would not buy either lens without putting on your camera and trying it first. 

Keep in mind that the depth of field on a macro lens is pretty shallow. I usually start at F11 or F16.


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## warreng8170

G1Pens said:


> The purpose of a macro lens is extreme close ups. That is not what you need to take suscessful photos of your pen. The lens you have should be the ideal lens. You should be using it showhere around 90-100 mm. If you put it on a tripod (which you should) you should turn off the vR feature to keep the focus sharp. Thowing money at a new lens will not fix whatever problem you are having. It may be a good excuse to get a new lens, but it will not fix your problems
> 
> If you want to PM me and tell me what troubles you are having I will be glad to help as much as I can.



Exactly. I have a D40 with an 18-200 VR lens. Very similar to what you have. Your lens is perfectly suited to what you want to do. Maybe you could show us a few pics to see what issues your having and we could give you some suggestions on how to improve.


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## amboyna

*Thanks*

Wow. Thanks for all the great suggestions. It sounds like the lens I have will work. I am really just starting to understand the settings on my D80, despite having it for several years now. I'll upload a couple bad photos soon.


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## wjbowling

Bruce,
There is a good tutorial for photographing pens on the IAP Homepage by Gerry Rhoades.  Also mount on a tripod and use a two second delay to reduce any vibration.
Good luck
Wes


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## amboyna

wjbowling said:


> Bruce,
> There is a good tutorial for photographing pens on the IAP Homepage by Gerry Rhoades.  Also mount on a tripod and use a two second delay to reduce any vibration.
> Good luck
> Wes



I have read that tutorial. It did help. I do have a tripod and use shutter delay. But I think I should not use auto focus. I need to focus manually maybe.


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## amboyna

Here is one pen I photographed with my D80-






Note the coffee ring in the photo. Great!


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## 76winger

warreng8170 said:


> G1Pens said:
> 
> 
> 
> The purpose of a macro lens is extreme close ups. That is not what you need to take suscessful photos of your pen. The lens you have should be the ideal lens. You should be using it showhere around 90-100 mm. If you put it on a tripod (which you should) you should turn off the vR feature to keep the focus sharp. Thowing money at a new lens will not fix whatever problem you are having. It may be a good excuse to get a new lens, but it will not fix your problems
> 
> If you want to PM me and tell me what troubles you are having I will be glad to help as much as I can.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly. I have a D40 with an 18-200 VR lens. Very similar to what you have. Your lens is perfectly suited to what you want to do. Maybe you could show us a few pics to see what issues your having and we could give you some suggestions on how to improve.
Click to expand...


I'm very close as well, using a D40 with the 18-55 kit lens. Most of my attempts so far have been made about 1 ft away and focal length in the 40-ish range. I'm still learning as well, but will in with the others and offer any helpful thoughts that I can.


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## 76winger

amboyna said:


> wjbowling said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bruce,
> There is a good tutorial for photographing pens on the IAP Homepage by Gerry Rhoades.  Also mount on a tripod and use a two second delay to reduce any vibration.
> Good luck
> Wes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have read that tutorial. It did help. I do have a tripod and use shutter delay. But I think I should not use auto focus. I need to focus manually maybe.
Click to expand...


Yes, I'd recommend manual focus. Controlling everything manually is the best way to go as you learn more and get more familiar with the settings you need for your lighting, tent, surroundings, etc., but until you're at that point, I think Aperture Priority and Manual focus is a good way to start. You'll be able to set the focus to the optimal point you want, and control the depth of field (the front to back range that's in focus) by using the Aperture Priority auto setting. Then since you're on a tripod and using the timer already, the resulting shutter speed shouldn't be a big concern.


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## Whaler

I use a Nikon D70 with the factory 18 - 70 mm lens, usually set at about 50mm. Camera is set at ISO 200 and on full manual. I take my meter reading on a photo grey card and usually use F16 and bracket using the shutter speed. Using the self timer shouldn't be necessary with the image stabilization in the lens. My lighting is 3 27 watt photo correct CFLs.
Practice the film is free.
This was taken from about 12" F22 @ 1/10th second, on a tripod.


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## Sylvanite

Bruce,

As Gary mentioned, try turning off the VR.  It isn't needed when shooting from a tripod, and can actually induce softness as the lens tries to compensate unnecessarily.

Also, it looks like the camera focused somewhat in front of the pen.  I recommend manual focus as well.

Shooting aperture priority until you are comfortable with manual exposure is good advice too.

Once you start getting nice sharp pictures, then you can work on composition and lighting to really make the pen stand out.

Keep trying, and good luck,
Eric


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## toolcrazy

As said above, always turn off the image stabilization when on a tripod. As the lens will actually over compensate and cause vibration. I always use the 2 second delay, this gets me out of the way of the tripod so I don't bump it. I use an 18x55mm wide angle lens, spot metering and full manual.


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## 76winger

I just updated my own thread with some of the settings I'm using on my D40, the lighting, the process I followed and settings used in final results. It's also a pretty good example of what you can do with just a stock lens. You can read about it in this thread:
http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=74186

Good luck and keep learning, you'll get get there!


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## G1Pens

In looking at your picture, I agree with the comments provided so far. The focus is off. It looks like it is focused in front of the pen. Manual focus will cure that, but I have somewhat bad eyesight and have trouble focusing sometimes manually. I use Canon and am not too familiar with Nikon, but you should have the ability to move your focus point around. I have my camera set to focus on the exact center of the the screen, so I make sure that the center band of the pen is on that center point and use autofocus. As noted use either manual settings or aperature priority with the f-stop set to at least f11 and possibly f16 to give you the depth of field needed to keep both ends of the pen in focus. Use the tripod, turn off VR and use the self timer to release the shutter as others have noted.

Once you get your focus issued nailed then we can start working on the lighting. But solve one issue at a time.


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## MatthewZS

The photo you have there looks pretty good for the most part except you could stand to get more light on all sides of the pen.

And I use a little sigma 18-55 for most of my stuff and it does great...... I PERSONALLY have off days, but that lense does great


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## ctubbs

Your point of focus is about 1 inch in front of the pen.  The depth of field range is 1/3 in front of the point of focus and 2/3 behind the pof.  This info is not always made easy to locate.  Usually, the dof is somewhat larger in the shorter focal lengths, but most variable vocal length lens that focus very close limit the 'macro' focus area to the longer focal lengths.  It is due to the make up of the individual lens elements, an optics thing.
You are making improvements in your photos.  Now that everything is digital, film is free and prints are way cheap on the monitor.Shoot, shoot shoot.  Just like turning, practice may not make perfect, but it sure does help!
Charles


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## amboyna

*Better But...*

Everyone has been really helpful. I appreciate the time spent in trying to help. So I have my D80 settings at 200 iso, F16, center weighted metering, Manual Focus and I tried both Aperture and Shutter speed as priority. Then I used different settings for exposure compensation, finally using +1.7. Nothing was coming out with a white background so I switched to a piece of Maple. The pen is now looking better. But the background is pink.
I'm going to play around with it some more.


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## Sylvanite

Bruce,

Keep at it.  The focus is better, but something is still softening up the photo considerably.  It might be camera shake (check the tripod and make sure VR is off), or it could well be the software that you are using to shrink the image.

The pink color cast is a white balance issue.  Check your camera manual on how to adjust the white balance.

I did a quick edit on your photo, setting levels, shadows, color cast, crop, resize, and way oversharpened it.  With some practice, you'll be able to get the desired results right out of the camera.


I hope that helps,
Eric


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## amboyna

Sylvanite said:


> Bruce,
> 
> Keep at it.  The focus is better, but something is still softening up the photo considerably.  It might be camera shake (check the tripod and make sure VR is off), or it could well be the software that you are using to shrink the image.
> 
> The pink color cast is a white balance issue.  Check your camera manual on how to adjust the white balance.
> 
> I did a quick edit on your photo, setting levels, shadows, color cast, crop, resize, and way oversharpened it.  With some practice, you'll be able to get the desired results right out of the camera.
> View attachment 43962
> 
> I hope that helps,
> Eric



I was having trouble with my diffused lighting so I was moving the lights around. I know I'm not using 6500K bulbs. But anyway I will read up on white balance.
VR is off. But I need to check the compression I'm set at in Paint Shop Pro.
I have Corel, just too lazy to open it.


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## amboyna

Here are my settings-
Manual and VR off. Camera on a tripod and using shutter delay to take the photo.
Mode dial on M 
Shutter speed is 2.5
Aperture @ F18
ISO 200
Metering is center weighted
White Balance +1
Exposure compensation 1.7
No flash. Just two lights. One on each side. On the right is a 75 watt CFL bulb. On the left side is a small Halogen light with a UV filter. There is no light over the top of the box. Having the light above kept putting very shiny streaks across the pen.

And here is what I got:





It seems M is the correct mode. That setting allows me to control the Shutter Speed and the aperture. After moving my lights around and taking many shots I put one on each side of the tent and turned the overhead light off. I just check the color temperature settings. It was on a Flourescent light setting. I just changed it to 5000K. Time to take more photos.


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## stolicky

I know I'm a bit late here.  As far as the macro lens, I was thinking the same thing recently until someone pointed out one key problem to me - macro lens are great for very thin slices in depth of field.  We actually want something with a greater DoF so the whole pen will be in focus.  I have resorted to shooting:

- Tripod
- 2 second delay
- Around 50mm on a 1.6x camera
- Use both a 50mm prime and a 17-55mm zoom
- Use three "daylight" cfls from home depot.
- Usually set the white balance and play with exposure
- Tend to use pure manual more than not these days
- Sometimes I also shoot in RAW

I'm also shooting Canon, but that really does not matter.  The basics are the same.


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## amboyna

stolicky said:


> I know I'm a bit late here.  As far as the macro lens, I was thinking the same thing recently until someone pointed out one key problem to me - macro lens are great for very thin slices in depth of field.  We actually want something with a greater DoF so the whole pen will be in focus.  I have resorted to shooting:
> 
> - Tripod
> - 2 second delay
> - Around 50mm on a 1.6x camera
> - Use both a 50mm prime and a 17-55mm zoom
> - Use three "daylight" cfls from home depot.
> - Usually set the white balance and play with exposure
> - Tend to use pure manual more than not these days
> - Sometimes I also shoot in RAW
> 
> I'm also shooting Canon, but that really does not matter.  The basics are the same.



Chris,
    been changing settings trying to figure things out. Part of my problem (I think) lies in my lights. May need to go to Le Depot for "daylight" lights.


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## toolcrazy

Your last image is getting better. But, the focus is still off which is making the image soft. And I think it is a bit over exposed. You may want to back off a bit on the exposure compensation.


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## Cincinnati

*Balanced lighting*

To get a good color balance, use the same lights. The kind doesn't matter as much as the color temp. you can make adjustments to neutral in your photo editing software.


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## G1Pens

I agree with most comments. Pictures are getting better but focus still seems soft to me. Make sure you lens is clean. The only other thing that seems "weird" to me is that you are using exposure compensation on manual. Just change the settings by 1.7....in your case change the shutter speed. Keep your aperature between f11 and f16. Its a little more work, but shoot in raw and then adjust the white balance is your software. Also adding just a touch of sharpening in the software will be needed if you shoot raw...and could be beneficial with the shots you are taking now.


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## amboyna

G1Pens said:


> I agree with most comments. Pictures are getting better but focus still seems soft to me. Make sure you lens is clean. The only other thing that seems "weird" to me is that you are using exposure compensation on manual. Just change the settings by 1.7....in your case change the shutter speed. Keep your aperature between f11 and f16. Its a little more work, but shoot in raw and then adjust the white balance is your software. Also adding just a touch of sharpening in the software will be needed if you shoot raw...and could be beneficial with the shots you are taking now.



So I should not be using exposure compensation?

I changed the settings to shoot RAW.

And I'll change the aperture and try it again.

It is a good thing the film is free.


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## 76winger

amboyna said:


> G1Pens said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with most comments. Pictures are getting better but focus still seems soft to me. Make sure you lens is clean. The only other thing that seems "weird" to me is that you are using exposure compensation on manual. Just change the settings by 1.7....in your case change the shutter speed. Keep your aperature between f11 and f16. Its a little more work, but shoot in raw and then adjust the white balance is your software. Also adding just a touch of sharpening in the software will be needed if you shoot raw...and could be beneficial with the shots you are taking now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I should not be using exposure compensation?
> 
> I changed the settings to shoot RAW.
> 
> And I'll change the aperture and try it again.
> 
> It is a good thing the film is free.
Click to expand...


For manual mode you don't need exposure compensation. You'd use E.C for the automatic and semi automatic modes where you want to lighten or darken the picture over what the camera determined to be the correct exposure. 

In manual mode, you set the aperture and shutter speed manually to get the exposure you want. For pens, you want some of the higher numbered aperture settings as mentioned for greater depth of field, then adjust the shutter speed to get the exposure at the level you want. Take the settings you last used for A & S and leave the aperture alone, then adjust shutter speed, one increment at a time for each shot, and take a series of shots from 2 or 3 steps above to two or three steps below that initial setting. This is called "Bracketing". Then look at series on your computer and determine which one provides the light levels and color saturation that's most appealing to you. 

The RAW mode has to do with how the camera save the image file, and unless your and advanced photographer, I wouldn't mess with it personally. Drop down to the next lower setting and save them as a .JPG image file. They'll be much smaller in size and have enough image info for you until you go pro. :wink:

Also: IMHO you may want to stop and tweak your white balance a little more before proceeding to the perfect exposure level. I notice, from you last picture, that it still has a pink-ish cast, which would indicate you might not have the correct setting for the lights your using yet. And as mentioned, you need to have all lights of the same type, or you'll have much difficultly trying to find the sweet spot. 

Get these settings right and you won't have to worry so much about corrections in software after the fact. Just in the old days of using film, I prefer to get a good of a picture as I can from the camera, saving the need for a lot of post-processing corrections later. 

I'm guessing your D80's settings menus are pretty close to the same as my D40, so I'll try to help as much as I can since I'm just getting mine dialed in.


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## G1Pens

"So I should not be using exposure compensation?

I changed the settings to shoot RAW.

And I'll change the aperture and try it again.

It is a good thing the film is free.[/quote]"


Like Dave said, with manual mode you don't need exposure compensation. You just change your settings. In your case you want to leave the aperature and change shutter speeds. 

As for RAW, that is an ongoing argument among photographer....but...If you are not familiar with RAW and do not have, or are not familiar with the software to handle RAW, then you are better off shooting jpg. I shoot everything in RAW because I feel like I have total control of the exposure that way. Dave is right though, you want to get the best exposure you can from the camera. Software should be used to tweak, not fix bad photography.


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