# Help with Minwax Poly



## AKBeaver (Apr 11, 2009)

I am doing some pen and pencil sets for my son-in law and my CA is just not working very well. I got a bright idea to try Min-Wax Fast drying gloss Poly finish. It went on smooth and I let it cure 3-4 hours before sanding with 400 grit before adding another coat. Did this for 4 coats and let sit for the past week. The finish is dry to the touch, but there still is some tackiness to it. When I slid my fingers across the finish it instantly went dull. I reviewed Les's instructions and I pretty much did the same as called out there. I am at a loss on why the Min-wax does not want to harden. I am applying in on Macassar Ebony. Not sure if this wood is too oily and I need a different finish. I am trying to avoid CA for a while to see if I have a sensitivity to it or not. 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Dave


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## GouletPens (Apr 11, 2009)

Did you wipe down the wood with acetone before you put the finish on? if not, the oil in the wood could very well be the problem. Also, humidity could be a factor. This time of year is very rainy for us here in the Old Dominion and that affects all finishes esp. poly. Also, how old is the poly? That could be a factor. I heard somewhere it stays good for a year then starts to go downhill, but I'm no expert on that. Some may say otherwise.


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## jttheclockman (Apr 11, 2009)

The fast drying poly is that the waterbased poly acrylic???  Will have problems with oily woods and that stuff. You need to seal the wood if you are going to use it. It is something I have been doing for many years and when I need a sealer I use Zinnzer dewaxed shellac. Can't ever go wrong. Will take any top coat.


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## Mack C. (Apr 12, 2009)

jttheclockman said:


> The fast drying poly is that the waterbased poly acrylic??? Will have problems with oily woods and that stuff. You need to seal the wood if you are going to use it. It is something I have been doing for many years and when I need a sealer I use Zinnzer dewaxed shellac. Can't ever go wrong. Will take any top coat.


Even if you aren't using the WB stuff, as John T. says you must seal the wood. You won't go wrong with his choice of sealer.

Now you have to varsol that poly off and start over with the sealer etc. Good Luck! This time after sealing you will have an awesome finish.

Between coats only lightly sand with 4000 grade mm. There is no need to go down to 400 grit sandpaper. If I recall Les's instructions, he calls for 7 coats.  Only difference, I apply the poly with a small artist's brush. I am very happy with my finishes.


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## AKBeaver (Apr 13, 2009)

mackc said:


> Now you have to varsol that poly off and start over with the sealer etc. Good Luck! This time after sealing you will have an awesome finish.


 
varsol = Mineral Spirits Correct?


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## Mack C. (Apr 13, 2009)

AKBeaver said:


> varsol = Mineral Spirits Correct?


 Yup!


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## sol92258 (Apr 14, 2009)

okay, this may answer a question that's been holding me back from finishing a project...with an oily wood, like cocobolo, wipe it down with acetone, seal it with dewaxed shellac, then apply finish?


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## stolicky (Apr 14, 2009)

I'm glad this topic came up.  I have been attempting the minwax poly alternative lately and have had mixed results with the number of coats.  I kind of gave up on CA for a while until I get some fresh stuff.  It comes out very blotchy and/or cloudy.  When I tried the minwax on a bubinga pen, it only took a few coats and it was smooth and glossy.  When I attempted it on a couple of amboyna burl pens, it took 12-15 coats before I got a good smooth and consistent finish.  Note, I do all of this off of the lathe.

I really haven't sealed the wood before hand.  Only burnished some BLO in to pop the grain and let sit for a while.  The lack of sealing could certainly be the problem.  If you can use a shellac finish, would the Behalen's (sp?) Woodturner finish work as an under coat?  That would certainly be an easier way to go.

Oh, I find that using Abralon pads between coats works really well.  2000 early on, and then 4000 once the coating is fairly consistent.


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## jttheclockman (Apr 14, 2009)

Yes it would. You could also use Danish oil which has blo and poly in it and will seal the wood and give it a bit of color as the blo does.


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## GouletPens (Apr 14, 2009)

Cloudiness under CA is typically caused by oily woods w/out rubbing w/ acetone before applying the CA, or using too much accelerant during the CA application. 

Behlen Woodturner's Finish is shellac based, and should work as a sealer. I used this before getting the CA technique down. It's not surprising a burl like amboyna would take that many poly coats. But seriously though, I would consider learning a good CA technique before applying 12-15 coats of poly. Seriously, save yourself some hours there.


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## Mack C. (Apr 14, 2009)

sol92258 said:


> okay, this may answer a question that's been holding me back from finishing a project...with an oily wood, like cocobolo, wipe it down with acetone, seal it with dewaxed shellac, then apply finish?


That's exactly the way that I do it with good results! Be sure the MinWax poly you use is the fast dry 4 hr. brand, and only buy a 236 ml. (7.98 oz.) can. It will be stale before you use it all, if you are only using it to finish pens.


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## stolicky (Apr 14, 2009)

GouletPens said:


> Cloudiness under CA is typically caused by oily woods w/out rubbing w/ acetone before applying the CA, or using too much accelerant during the CA application.
> 
> Behlen Woodturner's Finish is shellac based, and should work as a sealer. I used this before getting the CA technique down. It's not surprising a burl like amboyna would take that many poly coats. But seriously though, I would consider learning a good CA technique before applying 12-15 coats of poly. Seriously, save yourself some hours there.



I'll have to try one using the Behlen Woodturners finish first.  I know that its not durable on its own.  

I actually used to use CA/BLO religiously and loved it before I started having problems last summer; after probably 50 pens or so.  Agreed, when you don't have any issues with it, its great - definitely the quickest vs. durability.  It got to the point where I even had similar issues in stabilized woods - cloudiness, matte vs. shiny sections, etc.  Like I said, when I get a new batch I'll give it a go again.  I really think either I got some bad cheap CA (very possible), or moisture got to it last summer.  I really haven't used much CA, except for things like stabilizing corncobs, filling voids, and inlay, since then.

Thanks for help.


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## sol92258 (Apr 14, 2009)

mackc said:


> That's exactly the way that I do it with good results! Be sure the MinWax poly you use is the fast dry 4 hr. brand, and only buy a 236 ml. (7.98 oz.) can. It will be stale before you use it all, if you are only using it to finish pens.


cool.
I haven't started trying pens yet, I actually got the scratched the itch by starting with shaving brushes.  I read somewhere someone used the minwax wipe-on poly, and that's what I've used thus far (2 brushes, pink ivory).
So far it seems to be fine.
On this cocobolo piece I'm working on, would the wipe-on poly work? after, of course the acetone bath and dewaxed shellac sealer?


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## NewLondon88 (Apr 14, 2009)

sol92258 said:


> On this cocobolo piece I'm working on, would the wipe-on poly work? after, of course the acetone bath and dewaxed shellac sealer?



Absolutely.


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## schaf (Apr 14, 2009)

Hi mackc,
You say you use a brush to apply the poly,I do also. I got sick of the time wasted cleaning and drying the brush between coats.
Do you have a method of storing your brush between coats.

Terry


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## Mack C. (Apr 14, 2009)

schaf said:


> Hi mackc,
> You say you use a brush to apply the poly,I do also. I got sick of the time wasted cleaning and drying the brush between coats.
> Do you have a method of storing your brush between coats.
> 
> Terry


Hi Terry; I have 3 little bottles of mineral spirits ready. #1 is the first clean, shake off on dirty rag, #2 is next, shake off on same dirty rag, #3 is the final cleaning, dry off on same dirty rag, and put away. I'm only using a ½" wide artists brush. It takes but a moment!


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## AKBeaver (Apr 14, 2009)

Thanks for all the help.  Will be going to the Big Orange Box and pick up some supplies the next couple of days and will let you know how things come out.

Dave


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## LizardSpit (Apr 16, 2009)

This thread has been extreamly helpful!!!  Thanks.


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## workinforwood (Apr 16, 2009)

Put your brush in a zip loc bag if you are going to be using it again in a couple hours and it will be just like when you put it in the bag when you take it out.

JT is sure right, with ebony you have to remove the oils or use shellac as a sealer.  Shellac sticks and dries on pretty much anything and can be used over anything and under anything.  That goes for minwax poly or minwax poly acrylic.  Now..if you want to upgrade to a can of acrylic poly and spray with an air brush..now it's different.  The water base poly will stick using this method, because the poly is internally mixed with air and is a much harder poly with a much stronger adhesion rate and far quicker set time than from a can.  You get a better coverage too.  It all comes down to how the air and the poly come together.  From a can, the air mixes externally..well the air really doesn't mix much, more like it just propels a spattering of uneven poly.  A decent sprayer or air brush will mix the air with the poly inside the gun so they become an even unit before they exit the nozzle, allowing for speed, control and consistency.  You can buy a good quality quart of acrylic for barely more than the cost of a spray can and a good air brush for $120 and spray a heck of a lot of pens, and clean up is easily accomplished with a bottle and a jar of water.  The finish on the pen should actually outlast a CA finish.  The Minwax in a can poly is much softer and will wear over time from finger acid, although not as quick as Laquer will.  Water base Poly's also add the benefit of UV protection and they do not yellow over time.  Everyone will have a finish of choice for one reason or another.  Unfortunately no finish is truly perfect and all finishes are subject to scratches.


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## AKBeaver (Apr 26, 2009)

*Update*

Well, got some acetone and Zinnzer SealCoat.  Removed the poly with the acetone and the shellac went on with no problems and a beautiful shine. I have put on 2 coats of the oil based poly and other then the small bubbles I am very happy with the results.  Need to lightly sand to remove the bubbles and apply the last coat.  Before I do any more will have to get some small artist's natural bristle brushes and mineral spirits.  Thanks for everyone's advice and input.
 
Dave


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## jttheclockman (Apr 26, 2009)

Good to hear someone report back with remarks about the info they received. Glad it worked out for you and remember if in the slighest doubt about the wood and the oil content of it. Follow those steps and you can't go wrong. Good luck and happy finishing.


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