# How does CA affect you?



## Warren White (Oct 30, 2016)

As a follow-on to my earlier thread about sanding sealers, I binged and did three pens at once.  

I had some severe nasal congestion on my last binge turning and thought it was probably the dust from the turning and sanding.  I have purchased and dutifully used a very good respirator during those operations and did not experience any congestion.

Yesterday I used the respirator during the turning and sanding but removed it while I applied the CA.  Last night I was plugged up something fierce.  I am wondering if it could be the CA.

I do have a pretty good dust collection system which I always leave on while I apply the CA.  I don't smell it at all; and there is no eye irritation during the operation.

I have a different set of filters for my respirator for organic vapors which I could use.

What say you?  Do any of you have this reaction to CA?  If so, short of giving up CA, do you have any suggestions?  I really like the CA for finishing pens and would not like to give it up.

Thanks!


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## Skie_M (Oct 30, 2016)

I occasionally get a burning/searing sensation while working at the lathe and get a whiff of the CA fumes ... I don't always have my vacuum cleaner running (my dust collector) while I use the lathe, for various reasons...


The major reason for me NOT running it is to avoid sucking up all the wood chips and dust generated by the roughing all the way up to initial sanding. I collect that with a brush into a gallon ziplock bag and save it for use in my smoker.  Of course, after I do that I really SHOULD turn it on and complete the finishing tasks for my project, but I sometimes forget till I get that first whiff of CA fumes.  I generally just step away from the lathe for a few minutes for fresh air and let it dissipate over time.

I've never had any respiratory blockage or other such issues from using CA... wondering if just using a dust mask (filter mask from Harbor Freight) would stop the fumes from irritating me...?


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## Sataro (Oct 30, 2016)

It doesn't affect me too much. If I don't open the windows & get some circulation it does get strong though. On the other hand my allergies bother me year round so I don't notice it too much.


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## ed4copies (Oct 30, 2016)

Mount one or two small fans in the ceiling, behind you.  (I used clamp on fans, worked in the basement, attached them to the floor joists) That way you create a flow of air, over your work in into the dust collector.  Always worked for me.


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## TonyL (Oct 30, 2016)

No noticeable, immediate effect - but only finished about 100 using CA over 30 months.
75% of the time I wear an organic vapor mask, have a fan behind me, dust collector on and air filter while apply. I do that just to avoid inhaling it.


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## Herb G (Oct 30, 2016)

I can only use it outside. That severely limits when I can use it.
I have an immediate asthma attack if I'm anywhere near it, or I go in a room where it was used & not well ventilated.

I opened a cabinet at the local wood working club years ago that had spilled CA in it. It was dry, but never aired out.
I caught a lung full of it & started choking out from it.

I had to run to fresh air & use my rescue inhaler.

So, no CA at all for me. I use epoxy & even that stuff causes me problems.
I can use it, but not be around it while it cures.
That probably came from years of building skate boards, and fixing boats using fiberglass mat & epoxy resins.


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## jttheclockman (Oct 30, 2016)

Does not affect me much. But then again I do not stand over the top of it waiting for it to dry. Apply and out of there.


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## Larryreitz (Oct 30, 2016)

As far as I know I haven't had any respiratory issues from using it.  However I have developed a different kind of allergy.  After using it, admittedly in my poorly ventilated basement work space, I will wake up the following morning with large bags under my eyes.  I mean it is zombie like.  The bags eventually go away, but unless I can come up with a near perfect ventilation system, CA finishing is out for me.  I bought some of the odorless variety and have used it for filling crack is bowls and know I had better quickly get out of the area or get the piece I'm working on moved.  I may give Ed's suggestion a try and see if that will help when there are times when I just have to suck it up and use it.

Larry


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## wood-of-1kind (Oct 30, 2016)

'Burning' sensation on the eyes but no noticeable sinus (breathing) issues experienced when using. I put up with it but only do one pen at a time. If I had to do many pens in a short period of time then I would use an alternate finish.


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## More4dan (Oct 30, 2016)

wood-of-1kind said:


> 'Burning' sensation on the eyes but no noticeable sinus (breathing) issues experienced when using. I put up with it but only do one pen at a time. If I had to do many pens in a short period of time then I would use an alternate finish.



Lately my eyes have been crazy itchy and burning. I've traced it back to CA fumes. I'm miserable for 2-3 days. It just started in the last month after over a year w/o problems.  I will be MUCH more careful with running a fan when using it from now on. Great subject to discuss. I've read by someone else On the the forum about serious lung problems from friends that used CA finish in their daily work. 

Danny


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## leehljp (Oct 30, 2016)

For some people, maybe many, CA fumes and dust will not bother you for a long while. And suddenly one day, some sniffles; then full flu like symptoms.

I turned pens for about 2 years without a problem. Then one day, after making a couple of pens, I had some sniffles about 3 to 4 hours later. Due to work it was a week or so before I could make another pen. That night about 4 to 5 hours after making the pen, I had a sudden allergy attack. Drainage and eyes watering. I never had anything like that before. A couple of hours later, flu like symptoms. I kept that for about 2 days.

Suspecting the CA (duh!) . . . because of some other guys on this forum warning about this before my episode, I went to using a respirator. I thought that did OK and I took my mask off about half an hour after finishing my pen. That night, 4 to 5 hours later, the flu like symptoms came back and the next day I had double vision. It could have been CA dust on my hands or lingering fumes in the air half an hour after finishing the pen. Later, I learned that the CA dust on my hands and wiping my face was enough to trigger the flu like symptoms.

Decisions, decisions. Do I change finishes? I tried liquid acrylic. Spent a couple of weeks trying it. I couldn't get it down right, plus I liked working with bloodwood and liquid acrylic with acetone in it cause bloodwood to bleed. Didn't like that. Tried lacquer and dipping it. It was OK but not what I wanted. I was spoiled on CA.

Next thing to try was building a dust collector system. Took me about 2 months or so to do that. I wore a respirator, used a dust collector and a fan blowing across. I still got dust on my hands and a return of flu like symptoms. Last thing I did (in addition to the DC being on and respirator and fan) was keep a damp cloth/towel near by in a bag. Wipe down my arms and hands and mask and I escaped those flu like allergies. 

I use CA on occasion to fix things in the house. As long as I don't get a good long whiff of CA fumes and CA dust, I am OK there.

I am a person that grew up on a farm and around farm chemicals of all kinds and never had a problem with allergies much until the CA two years after I started using it. 

There are many examples of the CA causing severe allergies in the archives. I did a search on "flu" a few minutes ago and for some reason, the "search" doesn't work for "flu".


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## Monty (Oct 30, 2016)

I've never experienced a problem from using CA as a finish (knock on a wood pen blank). I have however experienced eye watering and nasal burning from the acrid fumes given off from time to time while gluing tubes.


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## Skie_M (Oct 30, 2016)

I suppose it may be an example of minor issues becoming larger over time ...

I loved turning cocobolo ... it's a GORGEOUS wood, especially finished in CA!

I made myself a cocobolo handle for my safety razor, I made a cocobolo pen for my sister with a genuine turquoise stone inlay, and several other lovely little things from this wood.  I had planned quite a number of very nice pens and keychains and thus went out of my way to purchase a nice deal for a medium flat rate box full of the stuff, only to find that I am one of those who have such a problem concerning cocobolo oils.  It's a cumulative type of reaction, where the irritant starts out with no effects or only mild effects, but builds up the more often and longer the duration you are exposed to it.  By the time my box of cocobolo got here, I was itching so badly that I was actually SCRATCHING SKIN OFF, because I had been so badly exposed to it over a weekend.  Right now, that box is still sealed up with a double layer of packing tape, sitting on a shelf, waiting for me to get my wood shop built, complete with dust collector.  I'm still gonna use that wood, I love the look of it and it turns beautifully.  I just have to be very careful on how I go about it.


In addition to a dust collector, some good ideas are Air Filter Circulation fans ... an easy and dirt cheap way to do it is to set up several of the 20 inch box fans you can buy for around 20 bucks around your shop, just to blow air around in a circle around you and away from you ... on the back of each fan, put one of those cheap air filters you can pick up at the big box stores for 2 or 3 bucks.  It doesn't have to be the super expensive ones, just have to give the CA fumes or whatever irritants that may be floating in the air a place to land other than you or your lungs.


Turn up the AC in your wood shop and use long leg pants and socks, long sleeve shirt with tight fitting cuffs (or rubber-band your cuffs) to limit your exposure ... vacuum yourself off with the dust collector hose if you need to!  Take a shower RIGHT AFTER you finish up in your wood shop, and set a timer to keep your dust collector and air filter Circulation fans going for an hour or two after you leave the shop...

In other words .... work smarter, not harder!


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## keithncsu (Oct 30, 2016)

About three hours after using CA I feel like I'm having a fit with allergies or a bad sinus infection. Pretty much sucks. Finally traced it to the CA. I was already using a fan, etc.  So I immediately switched to Pens Plus. Definitely not the same finish but I've been pleased. Not to mention much easier.


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## Tiger (Oct 30, 2016)

For me, tears well up in my eyes, runny nose. This only happens when I glue up with CA, when applying the finish I have the dust extractor on and I don't notice any symptoms then.


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## liljohn1368 (Oct 30, 2016)

I've never had a problem with CA. Even if I get some on my hands I have some adhesive remover that works getting it off. I buy the adhesive remover to help when I have to replace a door sign on a truck or car. Works great...


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## bpgoldo (Oct 31, 2016)

Warren, If it isn't a reaction to the CA, I wonder, what type of wood were you turning? There are several families of wood that are classed as "sensitizers". They give off alkaloids and other chemicals when turning or sanding raises temps. I nearly died of Cocobolo. Didn't realize what the cause was....so I kept using it. Beautiful stuff....and eventually for everyone, can be deadly.


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## edstreet (Oct 31, 2016)

folks this is like did you die from liver cirrhosis after drinking alcohol or get lung cancer from smoking a cigarette.  The cold/flu like symptoms associated with CA use BUILDS UP OVER TIME.  Some people are more sensitive than others.  

It is not a question of IF you have a reaction it is a question of WHEN will you have a reaction.  It builds up over time and one day you to will have sensitivity issues with it.

It is not just breathing the fumes however that is the #1 source, but any membrane exposure, i.e. eyes and the mouth.  The P100 respirator does indeed help greatly in reduction but it does not remove exposure at all.  Also use of a fan is not 100% effective either.

The ONLY solution you have is to switch to odorless CA or use a non-CA product entirely.

There is a detailed article I wrote on CA in my tag line. ....


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## Warren White (Oct 31, 2016)

bpgoldo said:


> Warren, If it isn't a reaction to the CA, I wonder, what type of wood were you turning? There are several families of wood that are classed as "sensitizers". They give off alkaloids and other chemicals when turning or sanding raises temps. I nearly died of Cocobolo. Didn't realize what the cause was....so I kept using it. Beautiful stuff....and eventually for everyone, can be deadly.



Brian,
I don't think it is the wood.  This was just garden variety cherry.  
Thanks for suggesting it though.

Warren


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## Warren White (Oct 31, 2016)

*Thanks to all!*

I really love this forum!  You can ask a question and get a lot of really great and well considered answers.  It is my go-to place for expert help.

I have learned a lot from your answers.  My thoughts at trying to mitigate my body's reaction are these, especially since this seems to be a cumulative issue:

1.  After turning and sanding, switch to the organic vapor canisters on my respirator.
2.  Since I turn in my garage, it would be best to have a couple of doors open during the process.  That can be done by opening the large garage door a smidge and opening the side door as well.
3.  In addition to the dust collection, I will bring another fan in to the garage and point it over my shoulder toward the lathe.
4.  I hadn't even thought about the dust during and after the CA application.  Great point.  I will limit my exposure to the dust as well, and have something damp to wipe my hands when I am done.  I will also shower after turning when I can.

If all of this fails, I will be looking for an alternative finish.   I will so a search on the forum for ideas, but if you have any that you have tested and like, please send me a PM.  I really like CA, but I can't stand two or three days of sleeping with my mouth open  ;-(

Again, thanks so much!


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## farmer (Oct 31, 2016)

*Bigger projects*

Do a pool cue or a cane  with CA and its  enough to make everyone with in 25 ft gag.

CA is toxic ,,, says it on the bottle, look up or ask to see the MSDS sheet that by law the seller has to have just to have the product in there building or on the property ......just for the other employees that work there ............
Just because you cant smell it or it doesn't make you sick now doesnt make it safe for you to breath.

I use stick fast CA when I use a CA which is rare anymore .
The stick fast CA is soft compared to Epoxy or Solarez UV finish.
So I have switched to epoxy and Solarez.

I want a finish that is scratch resistance, shatter proof and water proof and will last up to 3 generations without it killing me .

If it takes me a couple of hours to put on a finish and then buff or polish it out then so be it .

Most hard crystal clear scratch resistance ,water proof finishes are toxic to man in some way or another .

Research it, get educated, get the safety equipment needed, use it and live.

Many of you are old farts that make pens for the people around that you like or love .
My point is what do you think your grand kids rather have , Grampa or the D@mm pen he made that gave him bad health.
 because grampa didn't wear a mask when applying some stupid finish .


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## smik (Oct 31, 2016)

*Use a 3m mask*

I developed sensitivity to CA, same issues stuffed up nose etc. I can work with it if I use a 3m mask with the cartridges(organic vapor P95), but I prefer other methods of finishing primarily lacquer. I also wear the mask when using lacquer and it works well, no sensitivity so far.


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## leehljp (Oct 31, 2016)

Warren White said:


> I really love this forum!  You can ask a question and get a lot of really great and well considered answers.  It is my go-to place for expert help.
> 
> I have learned a lot from your answers.  My thoughts at trying to mitigate my body's reaction are these, especially since this seems to be a cumulative issue:
> 
> ...



Warren,

Instead of a PM, I want others to see this also, if you don't mind. Our health is the most important thing, as farmer said. I looked for other finishes but was addicted to the speed of CA. And that was 8 years ago. With Solarex and QUALITY Epoxy that I can get here, (I was overseas almost forever, and couldn't get industrial epoxy easily) I will practicing new finishing techniques soon.

Take care of your self! That is what is important. And for those who are not yet sensitized to CA, just pray that you don't get allergic to it.


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## jttheclockman (Oct 31, 2016)

You know I read all this and yes CA is harmful to you and some are more sensitive to it than others which as you find out you learn to work around it. But and I have to say this with a BIG BUT there are sooooooooooooooooooooooo many things in a work shop that are harmful to you. Acetone, mineral spirits, lacquers, poyurethane finish,  sanding dust, different woods, preservatives that were put on those woods,  and the list goes on. Then there are the tools we work with. We make a huge deal about the use of CA but little do you hear or read about the many other dangers in that same shop you are battling CA. Read all those safety sheets on any liquid in your shop or any of the dust you breathe in and you will run as fast as you can from your shop and start asking what the heck am I doing. 

My point here is take the knowledge you have learned and read more so that you can work safer in the shop. Those finishes mentioned epoxies and Solerex and break out those safety sheets and see that they are just as harmful. Maybe not right away but work with these things long enough and who knows. Wear safety equipment when needed, gloves masks, eye protection, hearing protection and face shields or helmets. More than CA in the shop that can kill you or even endanger your health. Be aware...  Happy turning


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## Anglesachse (Oct 31, 2016)

After a piece of cotton cloth with CA started burning, I don`t use CA in my shop.
Interesting, we used to use CA where I work and the Safety people banned it.

I`m not a fan of shiny wood anyway, so for me no loss.


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## Monty (Oct 31, 2016)

Anglesachse said:


> After a piece of cotton cloth with CA started burning, I don`t use CA in my shop.
> Interesting, we used to use CA where I work and the Safety people banned it....


Never had it start anything burning in my shop. 
I'd like to know the reason the safety people gave for banning CA.


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## jaywood1207 (Oct 31, 2016)

I end up with a bad sinus infection and suffer for days. Went through that a couple times and then started wearing a mask when I figured out it was the CA. I now wear the mask whenever using CA and also have an exhaust fan running direct from the lathe outside. No issues now.


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## edstreet (Oct 31, 2016)

Cotton has been well known to cause nasty issues with CA.


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## lorbay (Oct 31, 2016)

Not at all.
Lin


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## edstreet (Nov 1, 2016)

Now it's known by all on IAP. Not just hose who look on wiki and search engines.


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## linkbelt66 (Nov 1, 2016)

edstreet said:


> View attachment 155889
> 
> Now it's known by all on IAP. Not just hose who look on wiki and search engines.



That information should be included with the sale of this glue, it is not.
Being new to this hobby, I ordered and used thin CA for the first time.  I was wearing gloves  and got a instantaneous burn on a finger from this stuff.  This was only a couple of drops and the burn was very minor. I don't think I will continue to use the toxic material, it ain"t worth it!


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## edstreet (Nov 1, 2016)

The key aspect here is to know your material that you are turning. Know the material that you are using , i.e. CA and others.  As for 'toxic' goes all wood is toxic, but in most cases you will not have a reaction but you will be more sensitive to some species.  All dust is bad for your health, don't breath it. The small 1 micron particles does more damage than larger sizes. Key to remember on anything if you smell it you are breathing it.


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## farmer (Nov 1, 2016)

*CA as a fire hassard*



Anglesachse said:


> After a piece of cotton cloth with CA started burning, I don`t use CA in my shop.
> Interesting, we used to use CA where I work and the Safety people banned it.
> 
> I`m not a fan of shiny wood anyway, so for me no loss.



I haven't seen the towels catch fire , seen it smoke on white paper towels.

when I use CA I would throw the pieces of blue paper towels in a tin coffee can just because I was afraid of a fire .



In my comment above I didn't stop using CA because of its health hazard .
I stopped because I think there are better finishes  on the market.
I found that CA can be unpredictable on some woods or just a unpredictable
finish that has a short shelf life .

I don't care for the surface hardness of the CA I was using .
I can feel a noticeable difference in the finishes hardness from CA to epoxy to Solarez 
That is the main reason I stopped Using CA .


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## Herb G (Nov 1, 2016)

You know those blue gloves you use in the shop?
Well, I had them catch on fire using CA once.

I dropped some CA on the glove & got it off just in time.
It burst in flames, I knocked it on the floor, and stomped it out before it burned down my house.

Be careful using those blue gloves.


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## jttheclockman (Nov 1, 2016)

Herb G said:


> You know those blue gloves you use in the shop?
> Well, I had them catch on fire using CA once.
> 
> I dropped some CA on the glove & got it off just in time.
> ...




Not sure what gloves you have and why, but i use blue nitrile gloves all the time and what I do is actually cut the fingers off and just use the fingers. I get 10 fingers (duh) Never had any problems and never got hot. I do use blue shop towels to apply the CA but it always gets on the gloves.


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## Herb G (Nov 1, 2016)

jttheclockman said:


> Not sure what gloves you have and why, but i use blue nitrile gloves all the time and what I do is actually cut the fingers off and just use the fingers. I get 10 fingers (duh) Never had any problems and never got hot. I do use blue shop towels to apply the CA but it always gets on the gloves.



I hope you take this the correct way it's meant, and I have no dog in this fight, so to speak.
But, I have noticed no matter what opinion is expressed in this forum, but you seem to always have the opposite view, even if it contradicts your previous statements. 
Mind if I ask you a serious question?

Are you contradictory based on your personal opinions, or on proven facts?


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## Skie_M (Nov 1, 2016)

I have a pack of blue nitrile gloves that I got from Harbor Freight.

Once, while putting a CA finish on a small turned box, I had some kind of exothermic reaction that started to melt the gloves while I was still wearing them ... I assumed that it was actually a reaction directly between the CA and the nitrile glove itself, but there are no issues whatsoever when I used the fingers of the gloves directly to apply CA to a very small piece of wood.

I'm pretty sure it was actually a combination of things that caused that reaction ... the items on the table at the time of the glove meltdown were: Minwax Stain'n'Seal, Harbor Freight Super Glue, tap water (from the wet sanding), 90% strength Isopropyl Alcohol, and the nitrile gloves themselves.


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## jttheclockman (Nov 1, 2016)

Herb G said:


> jttheclockman said:
> 
> 
> > Not sure what gloves you have and why, but i use blue nitrile gloves all the time and what I do is actually cut the fingers off and just use the fingers. I get 10 fingers (duh) Never had any problems and never got hot. I do use blue shop towels to apply the CA but it always gets on the gloves.
> ...




Not sure where that is contridictory. But I made a statement about my gloves I use.Stated what I use to apply CA. There are different types of blue gloves on the market and maybe you are using ones that may do as you mentioned. Maybe the CA you used is different than mine and causes this reaction. Maybe there was a combination of things that caused your mishap. 

Whenever I post answers it is usually with my own personal opinion and it is because I have been woodworking for well over 35 years so I have seen a thing or two. I do like to follow up when a topic is going. 

If I do come across  as irritating and hard to read ( I am sorry for that) then the only thing and civil thing to do is block me so you can not see my posts. It is an easy thing to do. Other than that I am who I am and too old to change. Do not know what else to tell you. Happy turning


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## PenPal (Nov 2, 2016)

Warren White said:


> As a follow-on to my earlier thread about sanding sealers, I binged and did three pens at once.
> 
> I had some severe nasal congestion on my last binge turning and thought it was probably the dust from the turning and sanding.  I have purchased and dutifully used a very good respirator during those operations and did not experience any congestion.
> 
> ...


 A couple of pics , I picked up on CA very early on fitted an inline fan to a roof ventilator very low power but very efficient fan to atmosphere. This directly over the lathe. I turn it off when I do the turning of plastic all the ribbons float out as well. The fans are flame proof.

These pics incidental when changing from a Vicmarc VL100 to my then new Vicmarc 150 from TIMBERBITS during the installation. I use an industrial Vac under the Mandrel as well. CA problems all gone outside thanks to the fans.

Peter.

Peter.


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## Sataro (Nov 2, 2016)

I guess I use CA a little different than some. It is my finish of choice because of simplicity's sake. But I have another use for it. I'm not sure whether I have a vitamin deficiency or what? But my fingernails keep splitting apart on the ends. It has gotten so bad that if I try to use my fingernails, they want to split on me. 

So when they start getting in bad shape, I will use an emery board to try to file the upper layer of nail down flush with the bottom layer. Then I use a qtip to apply a couple of layers of thin CA on the ends of my nails to keep them from splitting. Probably should see a doctor one day but this method helps so I use it...


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