# Clips Help!



## gr8danish (Aug 8, 2010)

Hey all,

So, I've now successfully created a dozen or so pens of my own style, that do not come from kits... I have a metal lathe, a mill, and some other various shop tools and fixtures at my disposal.

I've been curious how difficult it would be to make my own pen clip. From what I can tell, there seem to be 2 different routes that can be taken; both of which will require me to contract a vendor in order to manufacture small quantities of my design.

1) I can have the clips stamped
2) I can have the clips cast (investment casting most likely)

At this point I'm leaning more towards investment casting... It seems that this will be the better route for having small batches of 25-100 clips made at a time, and there is a little bit more flexibility in both the design of the part itself, and the materials that can be used. The only major drawback I can see at the moment is that a 25 piece die will run me about $1,000.00 or so as an initial investment (price includes the first batch of clips cast from argentium non-tarnishing silver).

BEFORE I SPEND THAT MUCH $$$, I was wondering if any of you have any experience in manufacturing custom clips, and if there is a better (or different) way that I have not yet explored as a viable option.

Since my clip design has yet to be %100 perfected, I am still open to different techniques, even if this requires moderate changes in order for the technique or process to be successful.

I am also open to the idea of learning to cast parts myself, as this would greatly expand my capabilities. However, it seems like the initial tooling setup for casting supplies / grains, etc. will run as much or more than the die for my clips.

Any thoughts, comments or suggestions?


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## BRobbins629 (Aug 8, 2010)

The best advice I can give is to take some jewelry classes.  There may even be some local lost wax casting opportunities.  As for casting versus stamping, it really depends on the design. There are reasons for both methods and the design will usually dictate the method.  While its a good idea to learn how to cast, there is no reason to jump in with equipment.  Many jewelry designers just carve the wax and send it off to a casting house.   You will still need jewelry making skills for finishing the raw cast. The only downside is the lead time but if you're patient that is not a problem.  Cranston Casting is one I use and I usually get pieces back in 2 weeks.

You may also need to learn how to solder depending on your method of attachment, and if you solder, you could anneal the parts and then need a furnace for hardening.  Again, 1 or 2 classes will really get you started in the right direction.  Jumping into casting without some instruction is not something I would recommend.  Its not rocket science, but there are techniques and plenty of ventilation required to burn out the wax.


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## IPD_Mrs (Aug 8, 2010)

The problem with punching them is once the die is created you won't have much of a chance to change the die without re-tooling it.  Your base die cost is a few hundred without tooling.  If you want to change down the line sometimes it is possible to re-tool your existing die to fit your needs.  If a progressive die is required then you will be talking a much larger initial investment.  A single punch die would require you to remove the product from the die after each punch.  On a progressive die, the first punch would punch the hole and the second punch could pop the product through a cutout in the die.  Something then would need to be figured out for the waste metal so it does not get in the way for each punch.  Sometimes a tool and die maker will have used dies that can be converted to save some of the initial costs.  The last die we had made was rather simple and ran $2400 from a small tool and die shop.  This was back in the 80s.  One good aspect about a die is you can make the clips from a spring steel with a single punch, then bend the product on a hand brake.  Once made from steel they can then be plated.  A part like this could be barrel plated for around $50 based on a max weight of 50#.  (that would be a lot of clips)  At least that is what our platter charges for nickel and brass plating.  Higher end plating would be more expensive obviously.  The benefit of barrel plating is to keep the cost down.  Rack plating is expensive as each piece has to be hooked then hung on the dip hanger.  Now you are paying for man hours.  Depending on the gage of the metal you want to use a small 5 ton press would do the trick and you would not need much throat clearance or stroke height.  We run a couple of 30s a 20 and a 10 ton horn press.  If you want to talk or if you get far enough down the line to need a great plating company, not too far from you, drop me a PM


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## gr8danish (Aug 8, 2010)

Is there a benefit from having the clip be made from spring steel? I was hoping to make more of a 3-D design of solid silver as my standard clip. I'm not sure if a clip made of solid silver will be quite as durable as spring steel, as obviously it won't have the same metallurgical characteristics. However, my thought was that with a softer metal, it could be easily inlaid when the pen's intricacy called for it.


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## Smitty37 (Aug 8, 2010)

*Clip*



gr8danish said:


> Is there a benefit from having the clip be made from spring steel? I was hoping to make more of a 3-D design of solid silver as my standard clip. I'm not sure if a clip made of solid silver will be quite as durable as spring steel, as obviously it won't have the same metallurgical characteristics. However, my thought was that with a softer metal, it could be easily inlaid when the pen's intricacy called for it.


 
If you have a clip design you can send it to one of the pen kit makers and they can give you a price on producing it.  There is a one time set up charge and then a recurring charge that would be based on the base metal and the plating cost.


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## BRobbins629 (Aug 8, 2010)

gr8danish said:


> Is there a benefit from having the clip be made from spring steel? I was hoping to make more of a 3-D design of solid silver as my standard clip. I'm not sure if a clip made of solid silver will be quite as durable as spring steel, as obviously it won't have the same metallurgical characteristics. However, my thought was that with a softer metal, it could be easily inlaid when the pen's intricacy called for it.


If you make the clips from solid silver and you want them to be springy, you will likely need to harden them. This requires annealing first at about 1200 degrees then 1-2 hour heat soak at 600-650 F.  There are many high end solid silver clips on the market so it is definitely possible to do what you are describing.


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## gr8danish (Aug 11, 2010)

Smitty37 said:


> If you have a clip design you can send it to one of the pen kit makers and they can give you a price on producing it.  There is a one time set up charge and then a recurring charge that would be based on the base metal and the plating cost.



Currently I am in the mindset that I would like to stay away from using a pen kit maker to produce my parts...

First of all, I am skeptical that I would get the best price from someone in the pen industry.

Second, since I am using %100 original designs for my work, I do not want to use anyone that may copy my parts and sell them to other pen-makers. I think this would decrease the value and uniqueness of my work.


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## gr8danish (Aug 11, 2010)

BRobbins629 said:


> If you make the clips from solid silver and you want them to be springy, you will likely need to harden them. This requires annealing first at about 1200 degrees then 1-2 hour heat soak at 600-650 F.  There are many high end solid silver clips on the market so it is definitely possible to do what you are describing.



NICE! Thank you for that tid-bit... With that bit of knowledge, I am definitely leaning harder towards having the pieces cast rather than stamped.


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