# Herrinbone 360 - a how to guide



## darrin1200

I posted my first Herringbone 360 a little while ago. A few people asked how I did it. There are a couple of good places to find this online including other forums, but they all have there own problems or points of confusion.

I therefore decided to write my own guide for this project. Remember it is my first. It is probably full of mistakes (let me know what they are and I will fix them). Since everyone writes from a different perspective, I highly recommend reading my guide in conjunction with other info in the forum.

I am by no means an expert (when you read the tutorial you will understand), but if you have any questions, please feel free to ask.

I am not sure if this is the correct way to post this up on the forum, but I am sure the admin's will fix it if I'm wrong.

Whew!! A lot of 1st's here.
Enjoy

Darrin
Timber Elegance


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## tim self

I think you did a fine job explaining it.  The pics helped tremendously.  Made my simple mind understand it better.  The end product looks good and as with all firsts, there will be areas to work on.  Like making sure all segments are square and no voids.  Thanks for posting.


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## Mark

Great Tut. It is straight forward and the pix cover the needed visuals. Thanks for taking the time to put it together...


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## wood-of-1kind

Thank you Darrin for the great tutorial. With your instructions and pics from Neil (wolftat) I'm now ready to tackle the 'challenge' of the 360. A little knowledge and some pics is a wonderful thing.


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## handplane

I figured this out a while ago but used a completely different way of doing it.  Your way is much simpler than mine.  Just goes to show there is more than one way to skin a cat as the saying goes.


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## bobleibo

Darrin,
I've read a bunch of these tutorials - all far better than I could come up with - but yours  is probably the easiest for me to understand. I like the step-by-step with pics explanation. Very clear and systematic which is what works best for me. 
Thanks for taking the time to help us less perceptive types. 
Cheers
Bob


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## arw01

Wow  even with pictures my head cannot wrap around that one yet!  Very cool and will have to give that a try.

Could you save a step by making a table saw jig and using a smaller diameter fine crosscut blade?  You have to spend quite a bit of time sanding on the worksharp I imagine.  With a fine crosscut blade and sled made to capture the small offcuts, I would think you could speed up your piece preparation some?


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## soligen

A few other observations I have made.

If things are a bit uneven, you can sometimes adjust in the first few courses by altering the thickness of a peice or 2.  I figure the first few courses are scrap as I get things true.

If at the end things are staying tight and true, do 4 extra courses of a less expensive wood to server as a starter template for your next blank


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## soligen

arw01 said:


> Wow even with pictures my head cannot wrap around that one yet! Very cool and will have to give that a try.
> 
> Could you save a step by making a table saw jig and using a smaller diameter fine crosscut blade? You have to spend quite a bit of time sanding on the worksharp I imagine. With a fine crosscut blade and sled made to capture the small offcuts, I would think you could speed up your piece preparation some?


 
Yes, I use a sled on the table saw and a 3/32 Forrest woodworker II blade. No need to sand these cuts. You have more wood waste this way.  Note which sides get the chip out from the blade and plan accordignly.

However, on my comments, please be aware that I havn't made a full blank yet, so darrin is more experienced than me.  I made a short blank, to prove my process, and I have a 4 course starter template made.  I've been deferring a full blank until I have more confidence in my ability to drill true through the center.  This is WAAAAY too much work to blow the blank on a off-center drill.


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## Rmartin

Nicely done. The pictures with captions are easy to understand.


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## glycerine

Good tutorial, but I have a suggestion.  If you do it with triangles instead of squares, you'll waste less wood.  You cut off this excess when you're done glueing up anyway, so why not just start without it?  So basically, take your squares and cut them diagonally to make two triangles.  Glue it up the same way, always putting the 90 degree angle to the center of the blank.  Since you are cutting your material in half, you'll get twice as far with the same amount of wood, using more in the blank and wasting less by trimming it off later.


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## soligen

glycerine said:


> Good tutorial, but I have a suggestion. If you do it with triangles instead of squares, you'll waste less wood. You cut off this excess when you're done glueing up anyway, so why not just start without it? So basically, take your squares and cut them diagonally to make two triangles. Glue it up the same way, always putting the 90 degree angle to the center of the blank. Since you are cutting your material in half, you'll get twice as far with the same amount of wood, using more in the blank and wasting less by trimming it off later.


 
I did some math on this, and there really isnt much difference.  You can do 1/2" squares (or maybe 9/16) but you need triangles from a square over 3/4 to get the same diameter.

3/4 squares are a bit big.  9/16 should give you a 3/4 round blank.

Squares are easier to deal with too.


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## glycerine

soligen said:


> I did some math on this, and there really isnt much difference. You can do 1/2" squares (or maybe 9/16) but you need triangles from a square over 3/4 to get the same diameter.
> 
> 3/4 squares are a bit big. 9/16 should give you a 3/4 round blank.
> 
> Squares are easier to deal with too.


 
You may be right.  I just know that when I make a herringbone from standard pen blanks, I cut them lengthwise diagonally and then slice them like a loaf of bread and it turns out perfect doing it that way.


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## darrin1200

Thanks to everyone for the comments. I will try to remember to take pictures again next time. I consider my tutorial to be a living document that will grow with my own experience, and all of your points help with that. Keep your eyes peeled in the future for version 2.



glycerine said:


> Good tutorial, but I have a suggestion. If you do it with triangles instead of squares, you'll waste less wood. You cut off this excess when you're done glueing up anyway, so why not just start without it? So basically, take your squares and cut them diagonally to make two triangles. Glue it up the same way, always putting the 90 degree angle to the center of the blank. Since you are cutting your material in half, you'll get twice as far with the same amount of wood, using more in the blank and wasting less by trimming it off later.


 
Excellent idea with the triangles. It can't be any more fiddley than the 1/2" squares I used in the first one. I think I will definitely give this a try on my next blank.



soligen said:


> Yes, I use a sled on the table saw and a 3/32 Forrest woodworker II blade. No need to sand these cuts. You have more wood waste this way. Note which sides get the chip out from the blade and plan accordignly.
> 
> However, on my comments, please be aware that I havn't made a full blank yet, so darrin is more experienced than me. I made a short blank, to prove my process, and I have a 4 course starter template made. I've been deferring a full blank until I have more confidence in my ability to drill true through the center. This is WAAAAY too much work to blow the blank on a off-center drill.


 
My next step is to make a sled for the tabel saw. How do you hold the blank on the sled.

I agree it is very frustrating doing all the work then having it go bad. I cannot garantee that the first time you drill your Herringbone blank that it will work, but I can garantee that if you don't drill it you won't have a Herringbone Pen. My motto is the worst that can happen is that I start over.




soligen said:


> A few other observations I have made.
> 
> If things are a bit uneven, you can sometimes adjust in the first few courses by altering the thickness of a peice or 2. I figure the first few courses are scrap as I get things true.
> 
> If at the end things are staying tight and true, do 4 extra courses of a less expensive wood to server as a starter template for your next blank


 
I never thought about applying each piece individually on each row, rather than making up modules. It makes more sense, but I think it will require some concentration not to mess up the positioning. One piece on wrong with the CA, and its all over. With that in mind, I think I will give it a try with the next one. I think it will be easier to correctly position small pieces like 1/2"squares or 5/8" triangles.

Darrin
Timber Elegance


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## Craftdiggity

Thanks for the Tut, Darrin.  I'm going to give this a shot real soon.


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## Gary Beasley

I wonder how it would work to clip the inside corner of the 3 piece glueup where it meets with the other half to create an intentional void that will help guide the drill bit down center.


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## Jim15

Thanks for the tutorial Darrin, great job on it.


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## CSue

Great job explaining it all.  Thanks.


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## seamus7227

THANKS FOR THE TUTORIAL! VERY WELL LAID OUT, STILL VERY TIME CONSUMING AND PRECISION IS A MUST, LOVE IT.  EXCELLENT JOB ON THE PEN!


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## Pens By Scott

Excellent job, I am looking forward to getting into the shop and try this...


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## DurocShark

Nicely explained. Thanks!


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## Dai Sensei

Briliant tutorial 

I've always wanted to know how to do these, so now I can have a try :biggrin:


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## cschimmel

Great tutorial,   thanks for making and sharing it.   What are some other ways to cut the pieces if you don't have a band saw that can do it.   Thanks for the help.


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## DurocShark

cschimmel said:


> Great tutorial,   thanks for making and sharing it.   What are some other ways to cut the pieces if you don't have a band saw that can do it.   Thanks for the help.




Table saw with a sled?


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## LarryDNJR

darrin1200 said:


> My next step is to make a sled for the tabel saw. How do you hold the blank on the sled.
> 
> 
> Darrin
> Timber Elegance




Here is a suggestion on what the sled I made looks like.  Hope it helps..

I have it posted over on Lumberjocks.

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/32481


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## LarryDNJR

darrin1200 said:


> I posted my first Herringbone 360 a little while ago. A few people asked how I did it. There are a couple of good places to find this online including other forums, but they all have there own problems or points of confusion.
> 
> I therefore decided to write my own guide for this project. Remember it is my first. It is probably full of mistakes (let me know what they are and I will fix them). Since everyone writes from a different perspective, I highly recommend reading my guide in conjunction with other info in the forum.
> 
> I am by no means an expert (when you read the tutorial you will understand), but if you have any questions, please feel free to ask.
> 
> I am not sure if this is the correct way to post this up on the forum, but I am sure the admin's will fix it if I'm wrong.
> 
> Whew!! A lot of 1st's here.
> Enjoy
> 
> Darrin
> Timber Elegance





Darrin,

Thanks for the tutorial I have finally set down and started my own 360  Herringbones following it.  It is definitely a learning process.  I have  worked on about 5 different ones in the last week.  Some looked better  than others.  I found that for me it is easier to glue up the initial  level then glue each piece on individually rather than make up the 2  sections of 3 pieces.  This way I can keep it tighter and more level.   Also I use triangles that have at least 1 90 degree angle.  I do this  after the initial base level using squares.  This saves on wood for me  and less waste in my opinion.

I have had some requests on Lumberjocks for this tutorial after posting some pens of my own.  Would you care if I posted it there or linked others to it?


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## darrin1200

Not a problem Larry. I am a firm believer in the dissemination of information.

That is a good idea of combining the two methods. I am definitely going to try that base section of squares then attaching triangles for the rest.


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## LarryDNJR

darrin1200 said:


> Not a problem Larry. I am a firm believer in the dissemination of information.
> 
> That is a good idea of combining the two methods. I am definitely going to try that base section of squares then attaching triangles for the rest.



I have found anything over 2/8" thickness it becomes a pain to work with plus it doesn't look right in my opinion. 1/8" or 2/8" seems about ideal to me.

I'm thinking of doing a quick little photo or video segment to show my glue up process.


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## LarryDNJR

Here are some photos that might help with the glue up I was discussing.


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## PTownSubbie

LarryDNJR said:


> Here are some photos that might help with the glue up I was discussing.


 
Larry,
What type of glue are you using? I have tried both Epoxy and CA but CA doesn't work so great for wood IMO.


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## Lenny

Darrin, it's members like you that make this such a great site. Great tutorial! Thanks for taking the time to do it and share it!


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## LarryDNJR

PTownSubbie said:


> Larry,
> What type of glue are you using? I have tried both Epoxy and CA but CA doesn't work so great for wood IMO.




Titebond Thick CA for now

Going to try some Gorilla Glue soon as well as Titebond III Wood Glue just to see how they work once I get better at assembling these.


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## gr8danish

Wow, seriously nice write-up!

I'm going to try one of these for my next pen... Since I'm not sure how it'll turn out, I'll use one of the 15 "kits" I have laying around that I never ended up using, instead of burning my own milled parts.

Out of curiosity: are there any maximum or minimum final diameters that are possible with this type of blank? I would imagine that the larger the OD is the better the design looks, but I suppose you could modify by changing the thickness of the original squares, and the number of "layers" you use to construct it.

If it works well, I'll end up putting together a Delrin jig so that I can glue all 6 squares of each layer together at the same time. Should be fairly easy; screw together a few cubes of Delrin in the right pattern / dimension, and good to go!

I'm thinking about using Titebond III for my first one, so I'll let you know how that turns out.

BTW, has anyone ever tried to use a thinner epoxy as a filler? I have some super thin epoxy that I think was originally designed to be used as a finish. It's clear, UV resistant, and pretty runny. I've been using it as a sealer underneath my CA finish anyway to give a "deeper" appearance since I can't seem to get a thick enough layer of straight CA.


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## mick

Gary Beasley said:


> I wonder how it would work to clip the inside corner of the 3 piece glueup where it meets with the other half to create an intentional void that will help guide the drill bit down center.


 
Gary I noticed as I followed Darrin's tutorial that every other course had a small square void at the center. It actually acted as a guide to keep the bit centered as I drilled it
BTW Darrin this is a great Tutorial! Straight forward and easy to follow.


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## glycerine

PTownSubbie said:


> Larry,
> What type of glue are you using? I have tried both Epoxy and CA but CA doesn't work so great for wood IMO.


 
What problems are you having with CA?  Every herringbone blank I have done has been glue up and "soaked" in CA and I've never had any problems.  Actually for any segmenting I've done for pen blanks, I've always used CA.  It might not be so great for large pieces of wood though...


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## PTownSubbie

glycerine said:


> What problems are you having with CA? Every herringbone blank I have done has been glue up and "soaked" in CA and I've never had any problems. Actually for any segmenting I've done for pen blanks, I've always used CA. It might not be so great for large pieces of wood though...


 
The HB blanks that I have made were with Corian so I used Epoxy thinking that would work better.

It just seems like when I use CA to glue wood together it doesn't get a good bond. Either the CA soaks into the wood too much and doesn't leave much on the surface to bond with the other piece of wood. Maybe I am not using enough....?


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## gr8danish

Had the same problem... Try putting a dab of thin CA on the parts to be glued. Let it soak in and harden. Then use a medium or thick CA to glue the parts together.

I did this for a while, but to be honest, I've been using Titebond-III for most wood to wood glueing. It holds up really well, and leaves an almost invisible glueline.


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## glycerine

PTownSubbie said:


> glycerine said:
> 
> 
> 
> What problems are you having with CA? Every herringbone blank I have done has been glue up and "soaked" in CA and I've never had any problems. Actually for any segmenting I've done for pen blanks, I've always used CA. It might not be so great for large pieces of wood though...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The HB blanks that I have made were with Corian so I used Epoxy thinking that would work better.
> 
> It just seems like when I use CA to glue wood together it doesn't get a good bond. Either the CA soaks into the wood too much and doesn't leave much on the surface to bond with the other piece of wood. Maybe I am not using enough....?
Click to expand...

 
Maybe so.  I use a good bit when doing the glue up.  Then, once I get the blank glued together, I go and soak the "seams"...


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## gr8danish

Ok, so now that I've actually tried this; USE CA!!! I can't stress that enough. Otherwise it'll take forever between glueing sessions, and TONS of tiny clamps.

Titebond takes 30 min to set, so it's really not ideal for this process. I can see how 5 min epoxy would work on less porous materials, but for wood, CA is the way to go.

big THUMBS UP for the wicked tutorial!


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## johncrane

Darrin!
Excellent Tutorial, when it come's to kit choice the Elegant Beauty maybe a better kit to use,having a much smaller tube and the drill size of 23/64 which would leave much more blank on the tube.then again you may not like that kit, it's just a thought :biggrin:


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## ldubia

handplane said:


> Just goes to show there is more than one way to skin a cat as the saying goes.




Where are all the skinned cats?  And why does everyone keep picking on soft lovable fuzzy critters.


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