# If you  Stabilze using a vacuum



## ctEaglesc

Do you use a glass or  threaded metal chamber


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## wood-of-1kind

Never had a problem using the 'ol' pickle jar.

-Peter-


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## alamocdc

Been using 1 gallon pickle jars for over a year now with no problems. And the best part... they're free!


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## Dario

I got some free pickle bottles and some I bought.  

The first one I got from my grocery store.  Not sure what we did with its contents, I know I didn't eat any of it []


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## guts

pickle jar set inside a five gallon bucket,just in case.


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## loglugger

A gallon jar with a quart olive jar inside. I think it has been well over a year. Time flies when you are having fun or if you are behind in what you are suppose to be doing. 
Bob


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## smoky10

Well, I do use the pickle jars.


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## ctEaglesc

So far the results are what I expected, but I would be interested in seeing the set up of whoever voted for the metal/threaded pipe.
No pictures,it didn't happen.


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## bonefish

"I've never built a vacuum chamber. I have been reading the posts about paint cans and pickle jars.

It seems like a very strong, and safe, vacuum chamber could be made from steel pipe about six inches in diameter, about a foot long, and threaded on each end."

These are directs quotes from the first two sentences I made on this post on this subject.

Eagle, you have ranted and raved about seeing my setup, and why it won't work. In one of your post, you said that something tipped you off that I didn't have any experience at this.

If you could, or would read, this first sentence would have tipped you off.

]"I've never built a vacuum chamber."This is the very first sentence I wrote.

Mudder, and Eagle, who don't you try to learn to read, or at least try to comprehend what you read?

Now, for practice, go back and read the second sentence.

"It seems like a very strong, and safe, vacuum chamber could be made from steel pipe about six inches in diameter, about a foot long..." 

If you are unable to either learn or comprehend, would you at least let someone else read it for you, then let that person attempt to explain it to you?

One of you said that you didn't understand a thing I wrote. Why does that not surprise me?

And Mudder, where is there any mis-information in those two sentences?

You also want to do it in public so that you can show your a** to every one, instead of keeping it to yourself. 

I reapeat, try to learn to read or let someone else read it for you, then take lessons on comprending what you did read or had read to you.

There is nothing more frustrating than trying to explain something to someone who is unable to understand the most simple things, then wants to argue about it.

I apoligize to the rest of you, but I am frustrated about all that has been said. These two guys...well, you could fill 40 books on what they don't know.

Notice to site monitor: 

If I make any more posts about this subject, please delete them. I have let these two objects frustrate me, not because of their ignorance, although they have their full and complete share of that, but because they absolutely refuse to understand, or else they are unable to understand.

When I get frustrated, I am liable to say things that would be better left unsaid. This is some of these things.   

Bonefish


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## ctEaglesc

And now back to our irregular unscheduled poll replies[]
Bonefish-
Since you said you haven't made a vacuum chamber I did not think you would reply to this poll.
There was one vote that did indicate someone(who's identity is unknown) did in fact make a chamber using metal.
Since many post pictures I was wondering if that person  cared to share what their set up was.


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## bonefish

Wasn't me.

I don't use either one, glass, steel, or anything else.

Bonefish


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## ctEaglesc

"I apoligize to the rest of you, but I am frustrated about all that has been said. These two guys...well, you could fill 40 books on what they don't know."

I can't speak for Mudder, but as for me I think you could save yourself some time by writing a couple of sentences of what I sort of  understand(but not really know).


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## Mudder

> _Originally posted by bonefish_
> <br />Mudder, and Eagle, who don't you try to learn to read, or at least try to comprehend what you read?



I think the one who need to learn how to read is you.
You should also work on your comprehension a little while you are at it.

Let me bring it down to a level that you might be able to understand.

If you go back to Donâ€™s post and read you will see that I actually posted a link to a vessel made from water pipe. Are you with me so far?  (See pg. 2 of the post)

If you read page 3 of Donâ€™s post you will see I only corrected what I believe to be false information because a Champaign bottles is under pressure and I guess thatâ€™s where my comprehension is lacking because I fail to see where you can make a valid comparison between a Champaign bottle, which is designed for pressure with a pickle jar, which is designed to hold vacuum. Not once did I say anything about your pipe idea.

BTW: you also said on Don's thread that it was your last post on the subject but since then you have decided to open another thread to try to get your point across and now you are replying to a poll and calling me ignorant? Who is the one showing their A** I wonder.


Glass vessels have been used for vacuum vessels in many industries for many years but you being super intelligent person that you have convinced yourself that you are and without any facts to back yourself up get your panties in a knot when someone disagrees with you?


In summation I will agree with you 100% on one of your statements because you seem to be describing yourself perfectly.




> _Originally posted by bonefish_
> <br />There is nothing more frustrating than trying to explain something to someone who is unable to understand the most simple things, then wants to argue about it.



I wish you all the best in your turning endevors.

In your case I believe Robert Heinlein said it best:

â€œNever try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig.â€


&lt;edit in&gt;

You should learn to spell or use a spell checker. A reply littered with misspellings makes you appear to be a fool. Are you aware there is a spell check button right in the reply box?


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## Mudder

Further proof that I'm talking out of my A**

Here is our oldest vessel used almost daily for the last 26 years. I have used it for 10-1/2 years myself and it appeared to be older than dirt when I started.

BTW: if you look closely at the rim you will see chips and nicks in the glass.

















What do you think?


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## ctEaglesc

"You should learn to spell or use a spell checker. A reply littered with misspellings makes you appear to be a fool. "

Hey I resent that!
I believe my mispellings and typos just give proof to everyone who already thnk I am nut!


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## jtate

Mudder,

Where would one purchase such a cool vessel as that?

Julia


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## alamocdc

> _Originally posted by Mudder_
> <br />Further proof that I'm talking out of my A**
> 
> Here is our oldest vessel used almost daily for the last 26 years. I have used it for 10-1/2 years myself and it appeared to be older than dirt when I started.
> 
> BTW: if you look closely at the rim you will see chips and nicks in the glass.
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> What do you think?



Wow, Scott, that looks just like the vacuum jar we used at the lab.

Julia, many science supply houses carry them. Here's one with a hand pump for just under $100. There are more sophisticated models that use a vacuum plate and the jar fits on top of it. They range in sizes from 3" high to about 15" high, but they tend to be quite expensive.


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## wood-of-1kind

> _Originally posted by ctEaglesc_
> <br />"Hey I resent that!
> I believe my mispellings and typos just give proof to everyone who already thnk I am nut!



Don't know about the 'nut' part but 'classic' Eagle yes. Spellcheck? We don't need no spellchecks. Enjoyable nonsense so far but let's not get testy. "Can't we all just get along".  [?]

-Peter-[]


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## Skye

Remember Einstein couldnâ€™t even tie his shoes.


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## bonefish

Oh, how I hate to do this. Should I? Heck, just go ahead and do it. I'm bound to get banned sooner or later, so why not have sum fune in the meantime.

It is a pruven fack thet a wurd does not have to be spelled korrectly for MOST people to unnerstande itt.

I'm with wood-1-of-a-kind. Can't we just get along?

Whut's all this big deal abut a pikkeral jar? People use them all the time. Sum pepple even put pikkles in them. Whut I rote does not degrade any1 who uses thim. 

And spelling? You don't have to have Mensa intelleck to be able to spel. Thinking of the wurds is the difficult parte. You cun hir some1 offen the strete, part time, at minimum wage, to correck the spelling.

Iffen you dont beleve me, ask some1 at your next Mensa meating.

Thet jar youse showed pitchers of? Is hit made to hole one large, round pickeral, or a bache of liddle biddy picerals?

Bonefish

Oh, buy the way, I was talking about the bottum of the champaygne jar being convex. Or is it concave? The kork is in the top. The kork would be in the bottum if youse helded it upside down sos you culd read the directions on how to pore it out.

Could you store pikkels in a champagune jar? Say, liddle biddy slender pikkels? Wuld the hole, whur youse stuff them in be in the top or bottom? Iffen youse hole a shampaygune bottle upside down, would the hold be en the top are bottom?

On a more serious note--even if you have a vacuum container completely full of vacuums, (or even vacuum shrunk pickerals) there is atmospheric press ure on the outside of whut ever the container is made uf, so you still got a press ure defferenatal.

You shore did open up a kan uf pikkels. Uh, scuse me. A can uf wurms.


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## Mudder

Now how did you know that I was a member of the Mensa society?

You should consider changing your name, Bonefish just donâ€™t fit.
I can think of another name that has bone in it and describes you perfectly.


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## bonefish

Eagle:

This has sort of gotten out of hand. When I originally went to this site, I was hoping that it would be different than some others I have been on. The last one I was on, there were two or three mud slingings going on at the same time.

I didn't want it to be this way, and my largest regret is that I became a part of it.

As one-of-a-kind said, could we please try to get along?

This is a quote from one of your post:

"I can't speak for Mudder, but as for me I think you could save yourself some time by writing a couple of sentences of what I sort of understand(but not really know.)"                         '

The first post I made about vacuum usage goes like this: 

"I've never built a vacuum chamber. I have been reading the posts about paint cans and pickle jars.

It seems like a very [red]strong, and safe, vacuum chamber could be made from steel pipe about six inches in diameter, about a foot long, and threaded on each end."

Please tell me what it is about this that you don't understand or that you don't really know. I'll tell you what I meant by my statement. I meant that I think a steel container would be stronger than a glass container, regardless of what it is used for.

The reason I even thought about it was because the lid to Don's container broke. I don't think one that was made out of steel would have. Or even thick aluminum for that matter.

The clear part didn't break. I don't know what it was made from but the same principal could be used with a metal top. One change I would suggest, though, is that a round hole be used instead or a square one.

There was no intention to insult anyone or ridicule anyone about their use of pickle jars. The only thing I meant was that I thought one made from metal pipe would be stronger. Maybe glass is strong enough, I don't know, but there have been a few failures.

At the risk of opening up another can of worms, I think a better solution would be to use one of those paint cans, with a window in the lid (round), then place the pickle jar inside it. If the lid was left off the pickle jar, only one hook up, to the paint can, would be necessary. With the lid of the jar off,The paint can and the jar would both be subject to a vacuum from the same fitting and vacuum pump. 

That wouldn't change anything, but it would a greater margin of safety.

If there is ever anything that I write, if I am still allowed to write, and which you don't understand, please ask me. You know yourself that there are many things people can say and which others don't understand. It can happen to anyone.

I don't know if that was the problem here. I don't think that was the root of the problem. I think the problem was that mud-slinging got in the way of using good sense.

It's like a bucket of sh**. The more your stir it, the worse it is going to smell.

I repeat, can we get along?

Bonefish


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## beamer

I get the strange feeling that we've been visited by Robert Louis Stevenson.


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## Mudder

> _Originally posted by ctEaglesc_
> <br />Hey I resent that!
> I believe my mispellings and typos just give proof to everyone who already thnk I am nut!



I already know you are ole' buddy and I still likes ya []


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## ctEaglesc

"I don't know if that was the problem here. I don't think that was the root of the problem. I think the problem was that mud-slinging got in the way of using good sense."

If you had any good sense you would not have made the suggested the threaded pipe in the use of a vacuum stabilizing liquid.
If you had any good sense you would not have started a second thread.
If you had a good sense you would not have replied to a poll about a subject you confess you had no experience in.
If I had any good sense I would never read another word you wrote.(I can't resist I enjoy the laughs)

Actually it was an imppractical suggestion made by someone with no experience on the subject of vacuum stabilizing that got in the way.
The more you write the more I shake my head in disbelief of your lack of ability to understand the subject at hand though you continue to expound volumes of uesless information.
I do thank you for the laughter you have provided.


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## btboone

I don't do vacuum stabilizing either, but if I did, I would probably go with a tube of 1/4" acrylic 6" diameter by around 9" long and have either 1/2" aluminum or 1" acrylic end plates milled with a slot for an O-ring.  It would have a higher safety factor than the glass jars and would still allow visibility.  Still, as was mentioned, an implosion's not as bad as an explosion.  I'd still wear safety glasses around either setup though.  If more safety was wanted, a glass jar could be done in an enclosure of plexiglas or something.

I used to do high vacuum stuff using a gallon cider jug cut off at the bottom and sanded flat on an aluminum plate with a rubber sealing ring glued to it.  The hole would be stopped up with a rubber stopper, and I could insert an electrode through there for coating glass and stuff.


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## ctEaglesc

> _Originally posted by btboone_
> <br />I don't do vacuum stabilizing either, but if I did, I would probably go with a tube of 1/4" acrylic 6" diameter by around 9" long and have either 1/2" aluminum or 1" acrylic end plates milled with a slot for an O-ring.  It would have a higher safety factor than the glass jars and would still allow visibility.  Still, as was mentioned, an implosion's not as bad as an explosion.  I'd still wear safety glasses around either setup though.  If more safety was wanted, a glass jar could be done in an enclosure of plexiglas or something.
> 
> I used to do high vacuum stuff using a gallon cider jug cut off at the bottom and sanded flat on an aluminum plate with a rubber sealing ring glued to it.  The hole would be stopped up with a rubber stopper, and I could insert an electrode through there for coating glass and stuff.



You know of course that acetone will compromise the acrylic over time.( we are speaking of safety here)


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## btboone

Good point you got there.  (If you wear a hat, maybe noone will notice.)[8D]  I didn't know what you were stabilizing with.  Yes, acrylic's pretty bad for chemical breakdown.

I guess a big part of the safety factor is figuring out how much vacuum is needed.  I guess canning pulls a pretty low vacuum, maybe what, 10" of mercury?  How much is used for stabilizing?  I guess worst case, a secondary shield might be the answer.


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## ctEaglesc

I pull 26" of mercury with a $10.00 venturi vacuum from HF.


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## btboone

That's a pretty strong vacuum.  I have one of those hand held pumps that Billy refers to, and it might do around 20".  A refrigerator compressor works pretty well.  I've gotten over 29" with those.  Does a higher vacuum make it easier to stabilize, or is there a practical limit?


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## RussFairfield

> _Originally posted by beamer_
> <br />I get the strange feeling that we've been visited by Robert Louis Stevenson.


Does he have a scruffy beard, a funny hat, a patch over one eye, and a parrott on his shoulder; and does he say, "AWrrrrr" a lot?


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## beamer

> _Originally posted by RussFairfield_
> <br />
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Originally posted by beamer_
> <br />I get the strange feeling that we've been visited by Robert Louis Stevenson.
> 
> 
> 
> Does he have a scruffy beard, a funny hat, a patch over one eye, and a parrott on his shoulder; and does he say, "AWrrrrr" a lot?
Click to expand...


No, the other one!


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## Mudder

> _Originally posted by btboone_
> <br /> I guess canning pulls a pretty low vacuum, maybe what, 10" of mercury?  How much is used for stabilizing?  I guess worst case, a secondary shield might be the answer.



Depends if you are canning with the boiling water method or a pressure canner. I believe the pressure canner is closer to 22" mercury.


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## alamocdc

> _Originally posted by btboone_
> <br />That's a pretty strong vacuum.  I have one of those hand held pumps that Billy refers to, and it might do around 20".  A refrigerator compressor works pretty well.  I've gotten over 29" with those.  Does a higher vacuum make it easier to stabilize, or is there a practical limit?



Bruce, I use the same system (and usually chemicals) as Eagle, but I only get 22-23" w/mine.

Side note #1 - I've seen 26" of vacuum crush a one gallon paint can.

Side note #2 - I don't know how anyone else has been doing it, but I've been pulling a vacuum on what I wish to stabilize and then leaving it under vacuum for however long I felt was necessary. I was talking to a chemist about this yesterday and he kindly gave me a lesson. I'll try to summarize it as best I can. Yes, simply via diffusion the mixture will penetrate quite a bit over time. Acetone evaporates very quickly and removing the air via vacuum will help keep the mixture in solution, but that's about all it will do (it will also boil the acetone and aid in it's evaporation so keep this in mind). Now it gets interesting (I haven't tested this yet, but I've been thinking about it and it makes sense... at least to me). He continued to say that if I truly wanted the solution to penetrate better, I should release the vacuum and draw it again over and over. Here I was scratching my head, but he explained... drawing the intial vacuum does not pull the solution into the wood. It simply evacuates the air from the pores. Releasing the vacuum is actually what draws the solution into the now evacuated voids. Repeating this process will achieve better penetration and hence a better result... says the chemist. Not that it matters, but he's a scientist at the Air Force Research Laboratory.

I intend to try this with my next batch, leaving the sixth pull under vacuum for a few days and I'll report on the result.


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## Mudder

Now you let the cat out of the bag!

I release the vacuum every hour (and that's what we do at work to)


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## loglugger

I donâ€™t know where to find it but I think it was Dario that tried a paint can and it crumpled. There was a picture of it some time back.
Bob


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## alamocdc

> _Originally posted by Mudder_
> <br />Now you let the cat out of the bag!
> 
> I release the vacuum every hour (and that's what we do at work to)



Sorry, Scott, I didn't know it was a secret. [B)][:0] But I'm on to you now. []


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## bonefish

Eagle and Mudder, it has been fun and also a learning experience. 

The most important thing I learned, though, and thanks to each of you, is that although intellegence has it's boundrys, there is no limit to stupidy, as both of you have proved beyond any doubt.

Something that both of you need to learn, and I doubt that you have the capability, is that I am the last person that you want to trade insults with. You are way out of your league.

And Mudder, you hinted that you were in Mensa. From the demonstration of your intellegence on these threads, it is obvious that you wouldn't make a pimple on a Mensa member's butt.

Eagle might, make a small pimple that is, but it is obvious that he isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer. Or should I say the highest pressure in the tank.

Guys, I'm outta here. It's been nice, and there are some really nice, talented, knowledgable, and artistic people on this site, and I have learned a lot from you. The problem is that it only takes two bad pickles to spoil the batch, and it worrys me that the amount of stupidy these two bad pickles have demonstrated might be contagious.

From reading what they have to say, I have come to the conclusion that the most vacuum is in their heads.

Some might say that it is my fault. I have heard that before, but I have come to realize that I have never had any problems with people who have any sense. Problems with the dumb ones is not important, because they are everywhere you look. I found two, and I wasn't even looking.

Goodbye and happy turning,

Robert Rogers, formally known as bonefish.


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## loglugger

I  pull and release the vacuum until there is no more air bubbles coming from the blanks. On some woods and on corn cobs that can be 8 or more times.
Bob


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## ctEaglesc

Bonefish-
After reading your insults all I have to say is :
"Thanks you sir, may I have another?"


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## Mudder

> _Originally posted by bonefish_
> <br />
> Guys, I'm outta here. It's been nice, and there are some really nice, talented, knowledgable, and artistic people on this site, and I have learned a lot from you. The problem is that it only takes two bad pickles to spoil the batch, and it worrys me that the amount of stupidy these two bad pickles have demonstrated might be contagious.



Here we go again.

Well Bonefish, I have seen guys like you come and go and I suspect that since you are making such a big deal about leaving, I will predict  that you will quietly return in a short time. That is the usual pattern of those who display such a child like behavior.






> _Originally posted by bonefish_
> <br />And Mudder, you hinted that you were in Mensa. From the demonstration of your intellegence on these threads, it is obvious that you wouldn't make a pimple on a Mensa member's butt.




After reading dribble like this it is abundantly clear that you could not make a pimple on MY butt, although it is entertaining to see a supposed grown man act like a 12 year old.

You are correct in one respect. You certainly are in a league of your own.


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