# This beginner is confused.



## cestmoi (Feb 10, 2014)

I just got my new lathe and made my very first pen on it yesterday. I've never used a lathe before, so I'm very excited to get some practice. The rosewood blank and pen kit were part of PSI's basic pen making kit. The package also included a DVD about pen making and I've watched numerous other videos. So here are my questions:

1. I don't really like the rosewood blanks and would like to try some other woods and/or acrylics that are more colorful/pretty. What would be some suggestions for less expensive blanks since I'm such a beginner?
2. The PSI dvd shows the pen maker using EEE and Shellawax, but everyone here talks about CA glue. Why is CA glue so much better than the other products? I bought a bottle of thin CA and made a mess of trying to use it.
3. Along the same lines as question #1, what are some suggestions for less expensive pen kits that are more interesting than the slimline kits that came in the PSI pen making set?

Thanks, in advance, for your help.


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## D.Oliver (Feb 10, 2014)

2.  The reason PSI uses EEE and shellwax is that it is easier to apply than CA.  For beginners that is a plus.  CA is a more durable finish but it takes time to learn how to do it.

3.  Cigar pen kits are a relatively low cost kit that you might want to look at.  Also look at modifying your slimlines with things such as custom centerbands to acheive differnt looks.  Have a look at this article in the library.  There  are some great examples in it.


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## Bean_Counter (Feb 10, 2014)

Hi Leslie, first welcome to the IAP

1. Probably a good start might be to find some walnut, cherry, eastern red cedar. A good place to get some great blanks would be woodbarter.com. I wouldnt go with anything high end until you are completely ready for them. 
2. Really the difference between shellawax and CA glue is durability and sheen. CA puts a very high sheen will last much longer than any shellawax. I use CA exclusively bc that's what the people want. CA takes a while to master and there is def a learning curve to it. Also everyone's way of doing CA is different so you will get many many opinions on how to do it. Just try them out through trial and error and you will find your way. 
3. In my opinion a single tube pen like the Sierra is a great kit for a begginer. If you go to smittypenworks.com, Smitty (great IAP vendor) sells Le Roi's which are almost the same. These are a great value and also a great kit. Smitty is running promotions for the birthday bash as well so check out the vendor forums at what he has to offer. Also if you like the slim line but wanted a fatter kit try the trim lines or even the Creek Line (again Smitty offers these).

Hope this helps and good luck


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## William Menard (Feb 10, 2014)

For the record, I'm still new too.
1. pretty woods depend on who is turning, everyone has their own likes. The acrylics can be purchased at numerous online stores and from vendors here. You may even ask members here to look at all the freebies they have gotten through the years and they may gift you some. People here are so helpful.
2. CA gives a look of glass if properly applied, lots of info in the library and on you tube.
3. The European is also a less expensive kit but you will need to cut a tinion so the middle band will slip over it. Don't be so down on slim lines, its a great practice pen and with a pretty wood or acrylic, makes for a beautiful pen. I just bought 12 trim line pen kits just to have something to do and use up my freebie blanks while sales are down. Hope this helps. Another wood project is check out segmenting in the library. Pretty cool but not for someone just starting unless your used to woodworking.


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## Ed McDonnell (Feb 10, 2014)

Make sure you check out the Russ Fairfield Memorial Modified Slimline Contest (Sponsored by Brooks Blanks).  It's one of the IAP Bash contests currently underway.  There are links to some educational materials and there will be lots of pictures of modified slimlines.  

A lot can be done with the inexpensive slimline kit to create interesting pens.

Even though you are "new", consider entering the contest (it doesn't cost anything to enter).  You just might win and if you do, you'll have lots of really nice blanks delivered to your door as a prize.

Ed


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## Edgar (Feb 10, 2014)

Personally, I like friction polish and rarely use CA. But I don't sell pens, so I don't have to worry about what customers like to buy. I make pens the way I like them - with as natural of a wood feel as possible & give away or donate most of what I make.

I sand to 600 grit then burnish the wood with shavings followed by sanding sealer, then friction polish, then a coat of Renaissance Wax.  It may not be as durable as CA, but it really looks nice and has a great feel.

If you ask 3 woodworkers, you'll get at least 5 opinions of how best to finish your work.

Welcome aboard
Ed


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## toddlajoie (Feb 10, 2014)

I would also suggest you get some inexpensive plain old wood (maple/poplar/oak, etc. If you have scraps, that works great. if not a small board will yield a lot of practice materials) and just play, don't worry about making anything in particular. Practice taking something square and making it round. That can be a hair rasing experience until you become comfortable with it, and it often the source of destroyed wood...  After that just play with making spindle shapes ( look at chair backs and stair cases and see what shapes the spindles have on them, slow sweeping curves, beads, coves, angles, etc) and get used to how the tools feel while you make these shapes. Without the worry of what the end product is going to come up with, or paying attention to turning down to the bushings, you can just try something, if it doesn't work, turn it away and start again, when you've tried so many things that there isn't much wood left, toss it and start a new piece.

Once you feel comfortable with that grab a nicer piece of wood ( Walnut is great. I think cocobloa, bocote, bubinga, and higher grades of maple are good solid woods with a consisten density, and by the way, a few of those are actually "rosewoods" too...) and you will feel much more confident in your ability to do what you envision. I also wouldn't discount that rosewood, It can often look very nice, but more importantly, it is often nice even stable wood to turn (much like maple and poplar can be), oak can tend to chip and tear out and is very "open grained" by comparison, and when you get into the more interesting looking wood (the burls, and spalted such and such) those woods are far less consistent throughout, and more likely to fall apart if you are not comfortable with your tools and techniques...


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## Carl Fisher (Feb 10, 2014)

#1 - to get practice turning, the cheapest way to get blanks is to buy actual 4/4 boards (3/4" thickness) and cut them down to blanks.  Simple 1x6 or 1/4 pine boards from your local home store are great for practice.  Buy a bulk pack of spare pen tubes with the intent of using them for throw away practice blanks or save them and turn the practice wood off the tubes and reuse them later.

#2 CA gives a high gloss glass like smooth finish.  Many like this, many don't.  CA finish takes some time to develop your preferred method.  For a beginning turner, look more towards the friction finishes (Doctors Woodshop, Shellwax, etc...) which will give a soft shine that still leaves the texture of the wood, or take a look at something like the new Craft Coat/Call Coat products as an alternative if you want higher gloss.

#3 Lots to choose from.  Pick a price point and go search out pens below your price point.  Single tube styles are actually a bit easier on newer turners such as any of the Sierra knock offs. Otherwise there are dozens of 7mm style slim pens, larger cigar pens, etc... that are all relatively inexpensive.


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## buttonsHT (Feb 10, 2014)

I'm still a beginner but didn't want to wast nice blanks so I bought a 2x4 and practiced turning pieces of that with no tubes in them just so I could get profiling down. You can get A LOT of blanks out of a 3' piece of 2x4. haha


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## toddlajoie (Feb 10, 2014)

I'll agree with Carl on the variety of pen kits. When I started I took an early liking to the Euro/Designer 7mm pen kits, as they had the same 7mm drill and tubes, but the final pen had a bit larger diameter, and therefore more wood left on it which I think makes it a bit easier.

I also LOVE cigar pens for the same reason, it leaves a nice amount of materials. Another thing about cigars that actually can make them a bit harder, but it is a GREAT lesson to learn early, is that ALL 4 bushings are different, and the 2 tubes are different sizes, so you NEED to pay attention to how you mount your blanks and the order and direction you put your bushings. If you can do that (and don't ask why I'm so familiar with the "potential" for this mistake...) the pen is quite easy to turn and comes out great.


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## mredburn (Feb 10, 2014)

The basic sierra style pens from different vendors are great beginners pens.  Check out Exoticblanks.com. woodnwhimnsies.com, beartoothwoods.com arizonasilhouette  THere is an abundance of inexpensive materials to learn with that you might like.


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## preacherman (Feb 10, 2014)

Hey Leslie PM me your shipping address and I'll pack a flat rate box and send it your way with some nice blanks. I have some that I'd be glad to give to a starter.


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## Jerryz (Feb 11, 2014)

I make slimlines all the time. They are great pens to experiment with shapes, techniques, and just about all facets of pen making.


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## sbwertz (Feb 11, 2014)

For an easy, and pretty much foolproof CA finish, see Wm. Young's video.


WoodTurning BLO and CA Pen Finish - YouTube


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## TimS124 (Feb 11, 2014)

You can buy 10" long replacement tubes for popular sized pens.  For slim lines, use the 7mm tubes.

That would let you make your own replacement tubes if you don't like how something turned out (no pun intended).  It also lets you create longer top sections when you're ready to experiment a bit.

You can also just turn away all of the wood on a blank that didn't come out the way you wanted…just turn carefully as you get close to the tube…or, go with pre-sized replacement tubes (but I think the 10" tubes are a better deal if you shop wisely for them).

Replacement tubes are cheaper than just setting the rest of the kit aside unused because a blank doesn't look good enough to bother assembling. 

Congrats on the new lathe and hobby.


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## StuartCovey (Feb 11, 2014)

I think everyone is pretty much hitting it right on.


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## skiprat (Feb 11, 2014)

Once you get the basic concept of using CA on cheap blanks, then continue to practice on the actual piece you want to use. Each type of wood and sometimes even blanks of the same wood often act differently
Turn the blank till it just becomes round and then sand it and practice the finish.
Then turn off the finish and do it again. By the time you get to size, you'll have found the method for that particular blank.:biggrin:


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## Mike Powell (Feb 11, 2014)

Look at Slabs blanks and Boards, he has some very inexpensive blanks.   Scott is awesome to work with also.  

On the PSI site look up starter kits, there are multiple on there that have many different styles of pens in them.  I still use the basic $35 one.  It has slim lines, designers, comfort, and trim lines I think, with all the bushings and bits.  Its a good start for practice, and the designers sell pretty well for me.


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## CatSmasher (Feb 11, 2014)

toddlajoie said:


> I also LOVE cigar pens for the same reason, it leaves a nice amount of materials. Another thing about cigars that actually can make them a bit harder, but it is a GREAT lesson to learn early, is that ALL 4 bushings are different, and the 2 tubes are different sizes, so you NEED to pay attention to how you mount your blanks and the order and direction you put your bushings. If you can do that (and don't ask why I'm so familiar with the "potential" for this mistake...) the pen is quite easy to turn and comes out great.


 
I'm with you - I wish I had a nickel for every time I assembled a cigar pen and found that I couldn't retract the refill in all the way!

I still consider myself a beginner - I like to sand down with micromesh, use EE then both hutt wax sticks to get a nice polish.  No complaints yet!


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## plano_harry (Feb 11, 2014)

Hi Leslie, welcome to IAP.  Nice Avatar .  Lots of good advice above on low cost sources for wood blanks and pen kits.  Sierras are the easiest to make well and they write great - especially if you put a Schmidt refill in it.  Buy extra tubes for the kits you like and only assemble the ones that meet your expectations.  The failures go on the shelf to remind you how far you have come, or you can turn them back down to the tubes and start over.  

While you are perfecting your wood finish, try some acrylics.  They cost a little more but don't require a finish application, only sanding and polishing and are fun to turn as well.  Acrylics cost $2-3++.  You can get 10 corian pen blanks at Amazon for $2.50!
Amazon.com: 10 Corian Pen Blanks 1/2" x 5" Various Colors: Everything Else  Might find them cheaper on ebay.

All you would ever need to know about making pens is available through our search function and the library.  Have fun!  It's a great hobby - but is often addictive. :redface: 

Harry


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## CabinetMaker (Feb 11, 2014)

cestmoi said:


> I just got my new lathe and made my very first pen on it yesterday. I've never used a lathe before, so I'm very excited to get some practice. The rosewood blank and pen kit were part of PSI's basic pen making kit. The package also included a DVD about pen making and I've watched numerous other videos. So here are my questions:
> 
> 1. I don't really like the rosewood blanks and would like to try some other woods and/or acrylics that are more colorful/pretty. What would be some suggestions for less expensive blanks since I'm such a beginner?
> 2. The PSI dvd shows the pen maker using EEE and Shellawax, but everyone here talks about CA glue. Why is CA glue so much better than the other products? I bought a bottle of thin CA and made a mess of trying to use it.
> ...


You must learn to walk before you learn to run.  Go to the scrap wood pile and start making things round.  Learning to get a uniform diameter over 3 or 4 or more inches is a challenge.  Learn to cut beads and coves.  Learn to use your skew.  Learn what speeds work for roughing and sanding and experiment with different finishes.

Once you are comfortable with your tools, then begin to experiment with materials.  Taking the time to learn your tools and lathe will be obvious in your pens as you progress.


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## Haynie (Feb 11, 2014)

I solved the wood and finish problems by not turning wood anymore, for pens that is.  I prefer the nonwoody substitutes.


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## BSea (Feb 11, 2014)

CabinetMaker said:


> You must learn to walk before you learn to run.  Go to the scrap wood pile and start making things round.  Learning to get a uniform diameter over 3 or 4 or more inches is a challenge.  Learn to cut beads and coves.  Learn to use your skew.  Learn what speeds work for roughing and sanding and experiment with different finishes.
> 
> Once you are comfortable with your tools, then begin to experiment with materials.  Taking the time to learn your tools and lathe will be obvious in your pens as you progress.


WHAAAAT?!?!?  You mean people really start that way.  JK

While that makes perfect sense, it's not much fun.  Jump right in.  You'll be surprised what you can do.  Mistakes are what make us better.  While CabinetMaker has a lot of good advice, I suggest you practice a little and turn a lot.  When I feel like I need to do something better, I go practice on scrap before I ruin something really nice.  Of course, I've ruined some really nice potential pens even with some  practice, but I've learned a few things along the way.  I think it's a  matter of preference.  Some people read the manual before they start.   Others read the manual after they break something.  Guess which one I  am. 

One of the best things about this hobby is there is almost immediate gratification.  And I promise you that once you've done 3 or 4 pens, you'll show it to someone & they will say with a totally surprised look on their face "YOU did THAT?"  I always like when someone says "Where did you get that cool pen?"  I say "In my garage."


I will say, that once I got about a hundred pens done, I started going back and doing everything CabinetMaker suggested.  I almost always practice with my skew before I turn something, even though I'm still not great with it.  In fact I've started doing warm up exorcises with scrap before I start turning.  I've found that if I'm away from my lathe for more than a week, it helps to do a few coves and beads, and practice with my skew. Probably about 10 minutes or so.  Then I get to work.

I think most of us started with slimline pens and then quickly get bored with them.  I know I made 3 or 4 then didn't do another for over a year.  Then I started doing pens for the troops, and re-discovered how much fun they can be.  I still don't do a lot of them, but I never do a stock slimline anymore.  I don't use the centerband anymore, and many times I don't use the finial.

Another great beginner pen is the Jr Gent I (also called the Jr Gent apprentice).  While a little more money than a slimline, they can also be modified easily by beginners.  I get mine from Timberbits, but you can also get them from Smitty, or Craft Supply USA.  Woodturningz has a similar pen called the Orion.  I like it because it really shows off the blank.  But because of that, it doesn't post.  But it's almost double the cost of the Jr Gent I.

There are many of us that have been saving a special blank for just the right pen, and we'll do it once we get good enough.  I know I have some special pieces that I'm saving for just the right project.  I just don't know what that is yet.  :redface:


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## cestmoi (Feb 11, 2014)

Thank you all so much! Your responses are incredibly helpful and I will be referring back to them regularly. As with most things, I find that I expect to go from novice to expert in 60 seconds, but it's pretty clear that this expectation is unrealistic. It will be fun learning, though. I'll be trying many of your suggestions and we'll see what happens. I may even get up the nerve to enter a pen in that contest going on right now (do they have an "ultra beginner" category?).


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## WriteON (Feb 11, 2014)

I'm new also. Do not under estimate Slimlines. You can make a very creative pen with that kit. Practice with anything cheap. I learn from making every mistake once or twice. Forgetabout the CA. It's a mess, it stinks, my towel caught fire. Here are some of my Slimlines. Have fun. Be safe...protect your face,eyes & ears. Wear your safety stuff.


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## butchf18a (Feb 12, 2014)

Being confused is part and parcel to this wonderful hobby. I've been at this for almost 18 years and still get amazed and confused. Though i have added amazed to my list.


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## Quality Pen (Feb 12, 2014)

You can use corian? Learning more every time i read on here...

Is there any danger in dulling your chisels with certain plastics?


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## sschering (Feb 12, 2014)

Quality Pen said:


> Is there any danger in dulling your chisels with certain plastics?



Anything will dull your tools at some point.. This starts the next great debate.. sharpening.. Like CA there are many opinions and methods.


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## BSea (Feb 12, 2014)

sschering said:


> Quality Pen said:
> 
> 
> > Is there any danger in dulling your chisels with certain plastics?
> ...


I agree.  Everything you turn will dull your tools.  You have 2 choices.  Learn to sharpen your tools, or go straight carbide.  You won't regret learning to sharpen your tools. And it isn't hard.  Especially if you use a jig.


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## TimS124 (Feb 15, 2014)

When you're ready to experiment with acrylics, look for closeouts and clearance prices.  I've picked up some nice looking acrylics over the years for huge discounts by shopping that way.


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## mikespenturningz (Feb 15, 2014)

Hi Leslie,

We all had to start somewhere. Keep up the good work and you will also get there. None of us was an expert to begin with.. You will be making great pens in no time. Keep posting images of what you make and don't get upset if you get a few critical comments. I know I got a few and it really helped me. Think outside the box and innovate new ideas. Good luck we are all routing for you.


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## Smitty37 (Feb 15, 2014)

cestmoi said:


> I just got my new lathe and made my very first pen on it yesterday. I've never used a lathe before, so I'm very excited to get some practice. The rosewood blank and pen kit were part of PSI's basic pen making kit. The package also included a DVD about pen making and I've watched numerous other videos. So here are my questions:
> 
> 1. I don't really like the rosewood blanks and would like to try some other woods and/or acrylics that are more colorful/pretty. What would be some suggestions for less expensive blanks since I'm such a beginner?
> 2. The PSI dvd shows the pen maker using EEE and Shellawax, but everyone here talks about CA glue. Why is CA glue so much better than the other products? I bought a bottle of thin CA and made a mess of trying to use it.
> ...


 Are you Totally confused yet???

I also had never turned anything on a lathe when I started so you aren't alone at being a complete novice to begin with.

I did have the advantage of not finding the IAP website until AFTER I had learned the basics of turning - this is a great place but I think a beginner can be overwhelmed with information getting questions answered here.

What I did - I found a seller on eBay who was selling a large flat rate box full of cutoffs (that were perfect length for slimline pens. and bought them
I then drilled all of them.

I found the lowest cost source of slimline pen kits I could (also turned out to be on eBay) and bought a hundred kits.  I would then pick two cut off blanks (mostly matched but sometimes different) glue in the tubes and turn a pen.  If you turn different shapes (slimlines are the best for doing this) you can practice using several different tools and perfect your techniques.

I do not like CA for a number of reasons 1st it's a mess and a bear to cleanup. 2nd I don't especially like wood pens to look like they're encased in glass. 3rd lately there seem to be a lot of posts with different problems with pens finished with CA.  Shellawax with or without EEE is fine for the finish. (EEE changes the color of the wood and turns black if you get it on the bushings and that black can get transferred to your pen if you're not careful) 

After you've done about 3 times as many pens as you think you'll need to master things, you'll be about ready to tackle something really nice.

One other thing - slimlines are about the hardest pens you will ever turn not the easiest, the difficult things with turning some of the larger pens come from the blank, not the pen style.


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## Lenny (Feb 15, 2014)

As far as the subject of other kits you might want to try, some of the single tube pens, sierras, elegant beauty, Le roi, etc. ... They have the advantage that you can get two pens from one blank. 

On a totally differnt subject ... You might find this old thread of some interest ...
http://www.penturners.org/forum/f14/if-i-had-known-earlier-46654/


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## Jim Burr (Feb 15, 2014)

Quality Pen said:


> You can use corian?


 
Corian is really fun to use!!! But if you aren't using breathing protection, as with any tool in the shop...stop turning until you do.


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## Quality Pen (Feb 15, 2014)

Jim Burr said:


> Quality Pen said:
> 
> 
> > You can use corian?
> ...



I have this for soda blasting - 3M Tekk Paint Project Respirator, Medium, P95 -h ttp://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004Z4EB/ref=oh_details_o09_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 

Would that be sufficient for turning corian? I planned on using this mask for all turning on the lathe, whether wood or plastic.


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## Smitty37 (Feb 15, 2014)

Quality Pen said:


> Jim Burr said:
> 
> 
> > Quality Pen said:
> ...


 The short answer is more than likely depending on how safe you want to be.


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## plano_harry (Feb 15, 2014)

Yes, that is a good one.  You might want to add on the organic vapor cartridge if you are going to use CA.  The misleading thing about dust is that the particles you can't see are the ones that get you - the sub micron stuff. Most people are worried about what they see floating around in the air. While you are building that workbench, you might start reading about dust collection.  Lots of info on here.

Harry


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## Quality Pen (Feb 16, 2014)

plano_harry said:


> Yes, that is a good one.  You might want to add on the organic vapor cartridge if you are going to use CA.  The misleading thing about dust is that the particles you can't see are the ones that get you - the sub micron stuff. Most people are worried about what they see floating around in the air. While you are building that workbench, you might start reading about dust collection.  Lots of info on here.
> 
> Harry



Oh yes... it reminds me of back in undergrad learning briefly about interstitial lung disease. Can't be too safe IMO!


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