# This might interest some.



## Mudder (Oct 19, 2005)

Did you know that you can take a 3/32" drill and open up that little center hole in a cigar twist mechanism:







Put a Schmidt pencil mechanism in:








And make a pencil from the kit?

If you get a little play and can't live with it you can shorten the lower tube a little or put in a spring from an old click pen or even shorten the spring of the refill you just took out.









You can pull the same trick drilling the twist mechanism of the Atlas and you won't have to cut the pencil mechanism.

This opens up a world of possibilities don't you think?

You now have the opportunity to make pen & pencil sets in the whole line of platings.


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## scubaman (Oct 19, 2005)

Sure ;-)  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/penturners/message/18594

The picture is long gone off the site, of course.  Note that if you use a spring in front, that spring works against the internal spring in the Schmidt pencil mechanism, can make for some intresting competition ;-)  I think you're better off using a solid spacer there.  Nibs from different manufacturers have different internal bores, btw


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## ctEaglesc (Oct 19, 2005)

I found out about it last year about this time.
I didn't bother to drill out the tranny.
A pencil without an eraser is just a lead holder.
Plus you still have to manually lock the lead in position.
I might use it for myself but would not dare sell a "converted" pen that way.
http://www.penturners.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=1355&SearchTerms=Cigar,pencil


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## scubaman (Oct 19, 2005)

> _Originally posted by cteaglesc_
> <br />Plus you still have to manually lock the lead in position.
> I might use it for myself but would not dare sell a "converted" pen that way.


I agree, the double-twist transmission is just too stiff, plus the vague center position makes it awkward - with the Schmidt it springs back


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## Randy_ (Oct 20, 2005)

Mudder:  I don't wish to diminish your discovery or inventiveness; but both Berea and PSI offer kits with the cigar pen profile and a pencil insert.  Whether the insert they use is the Schmidt pencil insert or some other mechanism, isn't mentioned in their catalog.  The PSI kit uses 0.5 mm lead.  The Berea kit did not specify.  One nice thing about the Schmidt insert is that you can have either 0.5 or 0.7 mm lead.  I would hope that both of those companies have a design that does not require the use of spacers or washers to have the insert function properly.  I wonder if anyone out there has purchased one or the other of these kits and can comment on their construction??


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## Mudder (Oct 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Randy__
> <br />Mudder:  I don't wish to diminish your discovery or inventiveness; but both Berea and PSI offer kits with the cigar pen profile and a pencil insert.  Whether the insert they use is the Schmidt pencil insert or some other mechanism, isn't mentioned in their catalog.  The PSI kit uses 0.5 mm lead.  The Berea kit did not specify.  One nice thing about the Schmidt insert is that you can have either 0.5 or 0.7 mm lead.  I would hope that both of those companies have a design that does not require the use of spacers or washers to have the insert function properly.  I wonder if anyone out there has purchased one or the other of these kits and can comment on their construction??



Do they make it in Black? Satin pearl? Satin nickel? I have only seen the kits in Gold but I understand that chrome has been added recently.


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## Mudder (Oct 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by scubaman_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...




A quote from the Yahoo post:



> I like this a WHOLE lot better than making a dedicated pencil! I don't have a
> lot of calls for pencils, but converting one on the fly is the cat's meow as far
> as I'm concerned.



There IS a way to remove the stifness. but it is a lot of work and a couple of my customers who want pencils don't like it.

Sorry folks, Eagle's conversion did not come up on my search, perhaps I dod not check the archived posts box and I do not frequent the Yahoo group. My intention was to put up something that would give our newer members an option or an idea, I guess in the future I'll keep them to myself.


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## ctEaglesc (Oct 20, 2005)

My reason for trying the Schmidt mechanism was due to the fact that I had just started making the Perfect Fit by the "b" company at the time.
I had already made a few Wood Craft pencils as in the Euro style or American Classic and the fact that the pencil kits were exhorbatantly more expensive bothered me.
Also in some cases it required different bushings.
What peaked my curiosity was the fact that the Perfect Fit could be converted to a pencil by just removing the Parker style ink refill and inserting the Schmidt mechanizm.($2.00)
This was far less expensive than a Euro Pencil kit.

Since the ink refills are all the same in the Parker style pens I just tried the Schmidt in the Parker Pens I had out of curiosity.
It happened to work in some but not all.
There's nothing wrong with experimenting.


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## Old Griz (Oct 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Mudder_ My intention was to put up something that would give our newer members an option or an idea, I guess in the future I'll keep them to myself.



Don't keep information like that to yourself, I for one think the idea is great and had not seen it before either.. Great info for our newer turners.
As you know I was doing the conversions by modifying the pencil mechanism and that took some trial and error and luck.. If I had seen the conversion posted by Rich on Yahoo or Eagle's earlier I would not have had to modify the mechanisms... 
You made life easier for me... 
I sat here last night and went over my Cigar pen inventory... 80% did not need the modification and the remainder got it. I now have all my Cigars pencil ready if a customer so desires
Thanks Mudder..


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## scubaman (Oct 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Mudder_
> [I guess in the future I'll keep them to myself.


Sorry, I didn't realize that this was a one-way forum.  I should look very carefully whether comments are welcome or not in the future.  Just came across the pics in the picture feed...



> _Originally posted by Mudder_
> Do they make it in Black? Satin pearl? Satin nickel? I have only seen the kits in Gold but I understand that chrome has been added recently.


Exactly.  It can be used with pretty much any kit that uses a Parker-style refill.  Isn't this what people did to make Atlas pencils?


> _Originally posted by Mudder_
> There IS a way to remove the stifness. but it is a lot of work and a couple of my customers who want pencils don't like it.



Don't like it snappy?  I'm quite sure there are!  I've also had (a few) people that don't like pens with the Schmidt mechanism for that very reason.  But I wonder whether you can make a cigar double-twist mechanism that snappy...  I knw some people flush out the tranny with WD40, I've never done it and always wondered whether something like that is a good idea.  It removes the lubricant.


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## Mudder (Oct 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Old Griz_
> <br />I sat here last night and went over my Cigar pen inventory... 80% did not need the modification and the remainder got it. I now have all my Cigars pencil ready if a customer so desires



Point of interest Tom,

The Woodcraft cigar kit (at least the ones I have) has a different twist mechanism than the ones from Woodturningz and Arizona Silhouette (maybe others to but these are all I have purchased so far) The woodcraft twist mechanism is all metal and fairly easy to disassemble. I use these twist mechanisms. Disassemble them completely, polish everything inside so it's nice and smooth, spray the internals with dry moly, use a drop of instrument oil and it snaps back to center.


Scubaman;

I misunderstood  the intent your post(s) and took them to be an attack, which happens so often here. In doing a little research I have found that you are not that type of person and I apologize to you for my misunderstanding. 

Yes, the two springs will have opposition of forces but I have found that it is not enough of an opposition to unlock the mechanism as it needt to be pushed down nearly an 3/32 of an inch before it unlocks.


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## Old Griz (Oct 20, 2005)

Mudder, I only buy my Cigar kits from Arizona Silhouette.  I refuse to pay the high prices that places like Woodcraft charge
The mechanisms on all of my kits are metal (with the exception of the plastic inside that needs to be reamed)... I have not seen any Cigar kits with mechanisms other than metal... 
Woodcraft is generally a Berea kit reseller.. they just rename the kit and charge a whole lot more for it.. their Navigator is a perfect example.
I may be misunderstanding, but how do you disassemble the cigar twist mechanims.. pictures would be nice..


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## Mudder (Oct 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Old Griz_
> <br />Mudder, I only buy my Cigar kits from Arizona Silhouette.  I refuse to pay the high prices that places like Woodcraft charge
> The mechanisms on all of my kits are metal (with the exception of the plastic inside that needs to be reamed)... I have not seen any Cigar kits with mechanisms other than metal...
> Woodcraft is generally a Berea kit reseller.. they just rename the kit and charge a whole lot more for it.. their Navigator is a perfect example.
> I may be misunderstanding, but how do you disassemble the cigar twist mechanims.. pictures would be nice..



Unfortunately Tom,

If you don't have the Woodcraft twist mechanism (which is completely made of metal) my technique will not work. I will post pictures tonight if I get time but the Woodcraft mechanism is different than the others. At least the ones I have are different.


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## scubaman (Oct 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Mudder_
> Scubaman;
> 
> I misunderstood  the intent your post(s) and took them to be an attack, which happens so often here. In doing a little research I have found that you are not that type of person and I apologize to you for my misunderstanding.


That was definitely NOT the intent!  And it is also true what oldgriz said - information buried in archives is OK but a new presentation brings it into new people's view.  To tell you the truth - I don't know if there is any useful info buried in the old thread I gave you a link to, often there is - a pointer to old info might help someone trying to re-invent the wheel!  I was not trying to steal your thunder 

You probably did some research, but may have missed old penturners info.  If I didn't remember I would have had a much harder time looking for that post.  (I've been around for a while ;-)


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## Fangar (Oct 20, 2005)

I have noticed the difference too.  The Woodcraft Mechs are all metal.  No plastic insert and they both sections are nickel in color.  The AS ones are nickel and brass and have a plastic insert.

Fangar


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## Mudder (Oct 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Fangar_
> <br />I have noticed the difference too.  The Woodcraft Mechs are all metal.  No plastic insert and they both sections are nickel in color.  The AS ones are nickel and brass and have a plastic insert.
> 
> Fangar



Ah, Someone else knows of what I speak. Was beginning to think I was losing what little I had left of my mind. [:0] It is easy to take apart. Never tried to take the others apart so I think I'll look into it, so to speak.


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## ctEaglesc (Oct 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Old Griz_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...




But you did.
I know it was a year ago but here's your reply in the thread I started and linked to.





Old Griz
Member



USA
2217 Posts

Member Since:
Mar 17 2004

My Photos
 Posted - Oct 11 2004 :  1:03:37 PM US Eastern Time        
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I tried it on 5 pens I have and it only worked in one... so it might be a fluke of design... 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Mullane

My Favorite Pen
Old Griz Scroll Art
A man who works with his hands is laborer
A man who works with his hands and mind is a craftsman
A man who works with his hands, mind and heart is an artist


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## Old Griz (Oct 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by cteaglesc_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...



As you get older the memory starts to go.... DUH!!!![][]


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## ctEaglesc (Oct 20, 2005)

[]
I have noticed that also. about me.


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## Mudder (Oct 20, 2005)

Here you go Griz;

Woodcraft mechanism:








Disassembled: Just need a pair of needle nosed pliers to squeeze the "claw" on the top VERY GENTLY.








Polish this piece:







And the section in which it rides:








I then spray it small "pusher" with Dry moly and use a toothpick to get it on the channel that the "pusher" rides in. A drop or two of instrument oil before reassembly and you have a mechanism, which "snaps" to center all by its lonesome.

But alas, as others have said "If it does not have an eraser it's just a lead holder"........ I just wanted to show you the pitiful excuse for an eraser that is provided with the "real" cigar pencil. Here it is next to a plain old penny.







I do hope there is another adventuress sole out there who has a woodcraft cigar kit who can verify that indeed you can make it into a "snap mechanism" I want to know if my method can be verified by a third party of it I just happen to be extremely lucky?


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## Randy_ (Oct 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Old Griz_<br />I sat here last night and went over my Cigar pen inventory...80% did not need the modification...




I only have one cigar pen in the house right now.  It is my personal user; but I don't remember which company it came from.  Anyway, I removed the Parker ink cartridge and the spring and inserted the Schmidt pencil mechanism.  It worked just fine without any fiddling or modifications.  BTW, anyone know if the cigar pens from Berea, CSUSA and PSI are identical or if they are noticeably different??

On another subject, can't understand why anyone would need an eraser on a pencil.  If you can use a pen without an eraser, why can't you use a pencil without an eraser??  [][]  

Note:  Guess I didn't read all of the replies before posting.  The tranny in my kit sounds very much like the description of the Berea kit...brass coupler, chrome-plated brass twist and plastic sleeve inside.


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## Randy_ (Oct 21, 2005)

This thread has gotten a little confusing for me.  Not sure if I am misunderstanding some of the information or if there is some contradictory stuff?  If anyone can clear up any of following questions. I would be very appreciative.

Tranny in very first pictureâ€¦..I assume this is the one that was reamed out.  What company did it come from??

From Richardâ€™s old post: â€œâ€¦Some 8mm mechanism have no hole in the insert push block, those would not work.  Some have a hole that fits, others, like the one here need a little reamingâ€¦â€  Why not just break off the top part of the thin â€œspikeâ€ on the end of the Schmidt cartridge?(down to the ribbed section)  You only ream out the tranny to make room for it.  It doesnâ€™t really serve any function in the operation of the mechanism.  All it is is a piece to hang onto when removing the cap to add more pencil lead.

â€œâ€¦I agree, the double-twist transmission is just too stiff, plus the vague center position makes it awkward - with the Schmidt it springs backâ€¦â€  Not sure what Richard is referring to, here?  My cigar pen is a single twist pen and not what I would call stiff??

Comments by Mudder: â€â€¦The Woodcraft cigar kit (at least the ones I have) has a different twist mechanism than the ones from Woodturningz and Arizona Silhouetteâ€¦â€¦â€  I thought Woodcraft and AS were Berea resellers so I wonder why the kits would be different.  IIRC, Woodturningz is a reseller of PSI kits.  Does anyone have a picture of the tranny from a PSI cigar pen??

Comments by mudder:  â€â€¦If you don't have the Woodcraft twist mechanism (which is completely made of metal) my technique will not work. I will post pictures tonight if I get time but the Woodcraft mechanism is different than the others..."  I assume you are talking about the polishing and lubricating procedure here.  Did you also drill out this mechanism so it would work with the Schmidt pencil cartridge?? 

Guess that about covers it.  Thanks.


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## Mudder (Oct 21, 2005)

I can see where it would get confusing.  After reading this thread from the beginning Iâ€™m lost to. Let me see if I can help you out a little.

The tranny in the first picture came from Woodturningz (I donâ€™t know whose kit it is)

It is possible to break off the top but if you sell the pen and the customer needs to replace the mechanism will they know to do that? Also, there is a possibility that the mechanism can be placed in the pen at a very slight angle, over time this could cause the â€œspikeâ€ to bend and become useless. I think that leaving this â€œspikeâ€ intact helps keep things in better alignment. My intent is to nor alter the pencil mechanism if I donâ€™t have to but if you want to make a pencil and the mechanism does not have a hole in it I donâ€™t see where you would have much choice.

I cannot answer your single twist question because every cigar kit I have made to date has a double twist mechanism.

The second set of pictures is the twist mechanism from a Woodcraft kit. I donâ€™t know who makes them but I bought 100 kits a little more than a year ago and so far all of the twist mechanismâ€™s have been all metal

Yes, I was talking about polishing the woodcraft mechanism and that one did not need to be drilled out to accept the pencil mechanism

You might be able to get away with soaking the all metal twist mechanism in acetone to dissolve the yak fat that is in then and lubricate it with really good oil but I have not had first hand experience with it so I am just speculating.

Hope this helps and if you have more questions, Iâ€™ll do my best to answer them.


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## scubaman (Oct 21, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Randy__
> <br />This thread has gotten a little confusing for me.


It's called information overload ;-)

Few people have bought every kit from every supplier. Why would one? Unless it's for a research project ;-)  I can tell you that cigar ballpoint pen kits ARE different from different suppliers.  If you were able to drop a conversion cartridge right in - great.  You probably have a CSU kit.  Probably not Berea (especially since you say your has a single-twist mechanism).  The steps inside the nib are different for differnt suppliers.  In some cases the conversion cartridge just drops through and protrudes 1/2" (don't quote me on the number ;-))  In addition, you can't be assured that there was not a change made by a manufacturer over the years.  Originally there were no cigar pencils available.  It's quite possible that suppliers made changes to use 1 nib and be able to accommodate a pencil mechanism

What is stiff?  If you've ever used a pen using a Schmidt mechanism you'd know what 'snappy' or 'free-moving' is.  Stiff is what this one is not ;-)  In a pencil conversion, you twist to advance the lead.  If the transmission snaps back, great - I feel this is how it should be.  I sure don't like the idea of finding the center in a double-twist mechanism that is not that well defined by feel.  I find with most non-Schmidt ballpoint transmissions you have to turn it back manually so that the lead is locked.  It's not a big deal, but it's that little extra thing that would keep me from making more than one or 2 on request.  If that conversion mudder mentions works as advertised - super, I have not tried that.  I don't get a lot of requests for pencils.

One last thing to remember is that even though Berea may be the importer, a large customer undoubtedly can spec certain parts to be different.  So I would not be surprised if a seemingly similar kit sold by BB would be different from one sold by WC, e.g.

Maybe referring to old info is not a good thing for more than 1 reason ;-)


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## Mudder (Oct 21, 2005)

> _Originally posted by scubaman_
> <br />It's called information overload ;-)



Quite true.

My method may not work for all but it does work for me.
I also agree with Scubaman that things do change over the years and what might work for me today might not in the future.

Thanks to all for adding useful information to this thread.


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## Randy_ (Oct 23, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Mudder_<br />...The tranny in the first picture came from Woodturningz (I donâ€™t know whose kit it is)...I cannot answer your single twist question because every cigar kit I have made to date has a double twist mechanism...
> 
> It is possible to break off the top but if you sell the pen and the customer needs to replace the mechanism will they know to do that? Also, there is a possibility that the mechanism can be placed in the pen at a very slight angle, over time this could cause the â€œspikeâ€ to bend and become useless. I think that leaving this â€œspikeâ€ intact helps keep things in better alignment. My intent is to nor alter the pencil mechanism if I donâ€™t have to but if you want to make a pencil and the mechanism does not have a hole in it I donâ€™t see where you would have much choice.....



One last question for Mudder just to confirm one point.  My tranny looks "EXACTLY" like the one in your first picture...the one you said came from Woodturningz.  My tranny is a single twist pen.  You twist the top about a quarter turn clockwise to expose the tip.  You can feel a noticeable detent when the tip is fully extended.  To retract the tip, you turn the top the same quarter turn but in a counterclockwise direction.  Just wanted to confirm that the pictured tranny is a double twist mechanism.....i.e. you can extend the tip by turning it a quarter turn in either direction??  

Last point:  I think your comments about NOT removing the top portion of the Schmidt spike make a lot of sense.  Should I ever need do another pencil conversion, I will drill out the trannys unless I have one with no hole at all.


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## Randy_ (Oct 23, 2005)

".....I just wanted to show you the pitiful excuse for an eraser that is provided with the "real" cigar pencil....."

Amazing!!!

Now that I have read this thread for about the seventh time, things that went flying totally over my head are now coming together and making some sense.  Unfortunately, with understanding, comes more questions.  Hey Mudder....!!  Since you have an eraser from a real cigar pencil, I would assume you have/had a real cigar pencil.  Was the cigar pencil from Woodcraft  and was the tranny in the pencil the same as the tranny in the pen or were they different??  If they are both from the same place and you still have the pencil tranny and if it is different, could I impose upon you to post a photo of it in a disassembled state??  Thanks !!

I promise...that the last question for you!! [][]


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## Randy_ (Oct 23, 2005)

And now one last question to Rich for clarification of a point he made earlier:


"...What is stiff? If you've ever used a pen using a Schmidt mechanism you'd know what 'snappy' or 'free-moving' is. Stiff is what this one is not ;-) In a pencil conversion, you twist to advance the lead. If the transmission snaps back, great - I feel this is how it should be. I sure don't like the idea of finding the center in a double-twist mechanism that is not that well defined by feel. I find with most non-Schmidt ballpoint transmissions you have to turn it back manually so that the lead is locked..." 

Do any of the cigar pen kits that are available have this Schmidt pen mechanism you are talking about or are you talking about commercial pens available in retail stores??  The Berea catalog says its Perfect Fit Pen has a "high grade German twist mechanism"; but does not identify it, specifically, as a Schmidt.  And the trannys in my Perfect Fit Pens appear to be mostly plastic which calls into question the "high grade" description??  Are the cigar pencil kits better than these conversions that we are talking about or do you consider the cigar pencil kits to be stiff, as well?  Thanks.

*


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## Mudder (Oct 23, 2005)

Hereâ€™s a picture that might answer more questions.

On top of the picture is a mechanism and assembly from a woodcraft cigar pencil I purchased 2 weeks ago. Notice the pencil mechanism is a Schmidt and the twist mechanism is also the same as on a perfect fit. In fact I tested a twist mechanism from a perfect fir and it works.

The middle of the picture shows a mechanism and assembly from a woodcraft cigar pen. Note the twist mechanism is all metal and is easy to disassemble and polish to get the snappy "return to neutral" that the "real" pencil kit does. It does not need to be drilled out (at lease the 30 I have left) for the pencil conversion.

The lower piece in the picture is a mechanism and assembly from a woodturningz cigar pen. note brass and chrome with a green plastic "pusher " inside. This one  does need to be drilled out for the pencil conversion.








If your cigar mechanism is a single twist, then all the better. You need just to turn it one way until it stops to advance the lead and turn it the other way until it stops to lock it.



As a side note: I'm going to experiment with some of the PSI kits to see If I can get a single twist mechanism to work for the pencil conversion. Only problem is that we're now getting to where it would make the conversion economically impractical.

Hope this helps.


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## Mudder (Oct 23, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Randy__
> <br />[teal]One last question for Mudder just to confirm one point.  My tranny looks "EXACTLY" like the one in your first picture...the one you said came from Woodturningz.  My tranny is a single twist pen.  You twist the top about a quarter turn clockwise to expose the tip.  You can feel a noticeable detent when the tip is fully extended.  To retract the tip, you turn the top the same quarter turn but in a counterclockwise direction.  Just wanted to confirm that the pictured tranny is a double twist mechanism.....i.e. you can extend the tip by turning it a quarter turn in either direction??





Yep, Mine is a double twist..... Where did you get your kit from as a single twist? If I can get kits like that it would make life a little easier for the customer who purchases this kit.


Funny little side story:

I sold a Sierra pen & pencil set yesterday to a woman who was probably in her sisties and I told her that these pencils don't come with erasers. She asked If I had any sets that did include an eraser and I showed her the poor excuse for an eraser that comes with the Cigar, Executive & Polaris. After looking at the others she giggled a little, looked up at me and said, "Son, I thought you were going to show me a pencil with an eraser on it". She then purchased a box for the set and ordered 2 more sets to be delivered by Dec. 20th. That little sierra kit has provided almost 3/4 of my sales over the last month.


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## scubaman (Oct 23, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Randy__
> The Berea catalog says its Perfect Fit Pen has a "high grade German twist mechanism"; but does not identify it, specifically, as a Schmidt.


Oh well, occasionally we know something learned outside of the catalogs ;-)  Rest assured, it's made by Schmidt.  Fot whatever that matters, since Schmidt does not sell retail 



> And the trannys in my Perfect Fit Pens appear to be mostly plastic which calls into question the "high grade" description??


Plastic should not automatically mean low grade...  Have you had any problems with a plastic transmission, ever?  I've not, and never heard of one.


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## Mudder (Oct 23, 2005)

> _Originally posted by scubaman_
> <br />
> Plastic should not automatically mean low grade...  Have you had any problems with a plastic transmission, ever?  I've not, and never heard of one.




Excellent point!
For some applications, engineered plastice are far superior to steel. Plastics can be made that don't need to be lubricated.


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## arioux (Oct 23, 2005)

For what it is worth, i have a chrome cigar kit here from Wood Pen Pro and it is single twist transmission.

Alfred


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## Randy_ (Oct 23, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Mudder_<br />....The lower piece in the picture is a mechanism and assembly from a woodturningz cigar pen. note brass and chrome with a green plastic "pusher " inside. This one  does need to be drilled out for the pencil conversion.
> 
> As a side note: I'm going to experiment with some of the PSI kits to see If I can get a single twist mechanism to work for the pencil conversion. Only problem is that we're now getting to where it would make the conversion economically impractical...



Mudder:  Thanks for the additional picture....quite helpful!!  My tranny looks exactly like the bottom one.  But it is only a single twist and the pusher is drilled and white in color.  I don't remember where it came from.  Since it appears to be neither a Berea or a PSI kit maybe Rich was correct in his speculation that it was from CSUSA??

Your comment on "economic" practicality puzzles me a bit??  I looked at the PSI and CSUSA catalogs and their twist pencils are all from $4.50 to $6 more expensive than the same kit as a pen.  Berea also has a cigar pencil; but there is no price listed in the catalog.  With that much difference in price plus the fact that you will end up with an extra refill and spring, it seems like the conversion is still a good option??

We haven't had any input from the owner of a CSUSA cigar pen.  I am going to email Nils and see if he can give us some information about their cigar pen tranny.


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## Randy_ (Oct 23, 2005)

> _Originally posted by scubaman_<br />...Plastic should not automatically mean low grade...



I don't "automatically" assume plastic is low grade and I didn't say that!!  But whenever the option is between a metallic item and a plastic item, I evaluate both items carefully to be sure which is most likely to function the best.  I would certainly agree that there are many applications where plastic will outperform metal(I doubt that anyone would choose a brass garden hose over a PVC hose); but, as a general rule, plastic is usually the second choice.  I haven't had any problems with plastic trannys; but I don't make all that many pens and most of what I do make have metal parts.


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## nilsatcraft (Oct 24, 2005)

Wow, I'm lost.  There's so much info here.  I got the e-mail from Randy requesting a pic of our mechanisms.  Eric, our customer service manager, turned some cigar pens this weekend so here's one from his newly turned cigar pen.  I hope this helps.  If not, let me knwo and I'll try to get the info you need.


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## Mudder (Oct 24, 2005)

Nils,

Is that one all metal? Silver top & bottom like the one I posted on the second page of this thread? The picture is not all that clear but I suspect it is the one that I am referring to.


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## nilsatcraft (Oct 25, 2005)

It is all metal.  I just took one apart and it looks just like the disassembled mechanism on page two of this thread.


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