# dissapointed and angry



## Rifleman1776 (Dec 3, 2010)

I don't make near as many pens as a lot of folks here. But I try to do them right and attempt to sell only top quality to my customers.  I charge more for my pens than I believe others do for similar models. They are sold out of an upscale art gallery. I do not want unhappy customers or returns.
For my gold colored pens I use only Tn gold because of it's durability.
But, I have discovered there is another factor that can make an otherwise high quality pen qualify for a complaint from the customer.  Namely, the supplier does not necessarily always ship what they promise.
The pen shown is one of my personal daily carry pens. It is a European in Big Leaf Maple Burl with Tn gold hardware.
You are going to ask, so I'll tell you, the kit was purchased from Craft Supply USA.
After several years of use, the 'gold' on the band and cap have completely worn away. The nib and clip are still in pristine condition as we have a right to expect.
It is obvious the band and cap were plated with something other than Tn gold. Probably 24K or 10K gold, neither of which has good wear qualities.
I believe when we order a Tn kit we should get all parts in that kit with Tn plating.
I will have to stop carrying this pen because my 'carry' pens are my best salesmen. Now, this one does not speak well of what I produce.
Color me angry.


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## glycerine (Dec 3, 2010)

I'd say it's possible that they got some parts mixed up and didn't do that on purpose or maybe THEIR supplier got the parts mixed up.  But I would definitely contact them if you haven't already.  At least let them know that you are unhappy.  Since it's been several years, maybe others have complained to them and they know of the issue and are willing to do something about it for you.


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## jttheclockman (Dec 3, 2010)

Have not seen you here in awhile. Glad you check in. I can not agree with you more. I have started a couple posts on things like this. When we pay top dollar and there are going to be those again and again who ask what is top dollar. To me when you start paying $10 and up for a kit it is worthy of good quality parts and getting what we pay for should not be too much to ask. It does leave an embarrassing mark on our reputations when parts come flying off or parts start to show wear. I am not sure there is anything we can do about it because if you stop buying what to say another kit is not the same. We are at their mercy and we just have to stand behind our products and hopefully you have understanding customers. Sorry but that is all I have.


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## tbroye (Dec 3, 2010)

Have you let Craft Supply know?  After a couple of years of daily use they might not replace it but may send replacement band and clip cap.  Their supplier may have not packaged the kit properly and mixed the parts.  I don't know if I could tell the difference.


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## Nick (Dec 3, 2010)

Perhaps you should contact the supplier with your problem. If you have, what was their reply? I am sure they would be happy to replace the product to your satisfaction.


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## Rifleman1776 (Dec 3, 2010)

tbroye said:


> Have you let Craft Supply know?  After a couple of years of daily use they might not replace it but may send replacement band and clip cap.  Their supplier may have not packaged the kit properly and mixed the parts.  I don't know if I could tell the difference.



I have not contacted them yet but will do so before the end of today.
I don't expect any adjustment. Really none is possible since the product (finished pen) is worth more than the sum of it's parts.
Since they offer a variety of bands and clips, I suspect they 'pick' the parts for kits and that the parts are of different platings. Not good.


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## Rifleman1776 (Dec 3, 2010)

BTW, due to a shoulder injury and surgery, I have not had any serious shop time for quite a few months. I do hope to be back 100% before spring.
Thanks for asking.


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## dgscott (Dec 3, 2010)

Rifleman1776 said:


> Since they offer a variety of bands and clips, I suspect they 'pick' the parts for kits and that the parts are of different platings. Not good.



Ummmm -- I may be wrong, but I don't think so. It's been my experience that kits come from Dayacom (or whoever) pre-packed, meaning all the parts are packed together in those little ziplock bags. If a non-Tn part wound up in a Tn kit, it probably happened in Taiwan. However, if you "mixed and matched" kit components (like the CB) from other sources, it is your responsibility to insure that the parts you included are Tn plated.

Just my $0.02
Doug


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## turbowagon (Dec 3, 2010)

Frank,

Not sure if the parts have changed over the years, but for at least the past year, the CSUSA Euro in Gold Titanium is not available in the "fancy" trim ring as your pen shows.  The gold centerband from the Gold Titanium Euro looks like this:


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## hilltopper46 (Dec 3, 2010)

If you look at CSUSA's web site this style center band is on their 10K gold pen.  The Ti-gold pen has a solid stripe on the center band.  With all due respoect, I think this is 10K plating - not titanium gold plating.


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## Nick (Dec 3, 2010)

Frank, 
If in fact the plating is 10k or something else and you got "several years" of service, you did good. IMHO before slaming Craft Supply, you should make sure of your claims by contacting them direct and giving them a chance to respond.


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## gawdelpus (Dec 3, 2010)

I bought a couple of Rhodium Lotus pens on Runout earlier in the year from CSUSA . When a customer brought back one after a couple of months with severe pitting in the nib holder ext, I replaced it with one from a different kit but matching finish to get him on his way again , I sent a photo of the damage to CSUSA and they refunded the amount paid in full as they had no more to replace it with .Can't ask more than that from a supplier  I am still trying to get a replacement from Dayacom so my other kit is usable ,the wheels move slowly in that direction   cheers ~ John


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## Smitty37 (Dec 3, 2010)

*Any price - not just top dollar*



jttheclockman said:


> Have not seen you here in awhile. Glad you check in. I can not agree with you more. I have started a couple posts on things like this. When we pay top dollar and there are going to be those again and again who ask what is top dollar. To me when you start paying $10 and up for a kit it is worthy of good quality parts and getting what we pay for should not be too much to ask. It does leave an embarrassing mark on our reputations when parts come flying off or parts start to show wear. I am not sure there is anything we can do about it because if you stop buying what to say another kit is not the same. We are at their mercy and we just have to stand behind our products and hopefully you have understanding customers. Sorry but that is all I have.


 
It does not matter whether he paid $10.00 or $2.00 if he paid for Gold TN then he should have gotten Gold TN.  That's why I push so hard for people to understand that "quality" is conformance to spec. not price the idea is we want manufacturers to deliver what they promise regardless of price.


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## glycerine (Dec 3, 2010)

gawdelpus said:


> I bought a couple of Rhodium Lotus pens on Runout earlier in the year from CSUSA . When a customer brought back one after a couple of months with severe pitting in the nib holder ext, I replaced it with one from a different kit but matching finish to get him on his way again , I sent a photo of the damage to CSUSA and they refunded the amount paid in full as they had no more to replace it with .Can't ask more than that from a supplier  I am still trying to get a replacement from Dayacom so my other kit is usable ,the wheels move slowly in that direction  cheers ~ John


 
Just out of curiousity, does that customer have sweaty hands?  My "daily driver" is a jr. gent and I'm experiencing the same issue.  But I have sweaty hands and I figure it's a reaction to that...  I haven't had complaints from any customers.  But I also don't have that many customers.


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## jttheclockman (Dec 3, 2010)

Smitty37 said:


> jttheclockman said:
> 
> 
> > Have not seen you here in awhile. Glad you check in. I can not agree with you more. I have started a couple posts on things like this. When we pay top dollar and there are going to be those again and again who ask what is top dollar. To me when you start paying $10 and up for a kit it is worthy of good quality parts and getting what we pay for should not be too much to ask. It does leave an embarrassing mark on our reputations when parts come flying off or parts start to show wear. I am not sure there is anything we can do about it because if you stop buying what to say another kit is not the same. We are at their mercy and we just have to stand behind our products and hopefully you have understanding customers. Sorry but that is all I have.
> ...


 
I understand your thinking but you are not getting a tn kit for $2 so the price is higher. When you pay for a higher priced kit you should expect a better product. I expect a downgrade in a lower end product. For which the price will reflect that. 

How do we get our message across to manufactorers then???  How can our voice be heard???  I realize when dealing with the numbers they do and using an assembly line concept things happen but who pays the price???  Us . Yes it is nice that the supplier replaces the parts but the damage is done as far as reputation to this client unless like I said they are understanding. Do the Mount Blancs of the world have these problems???  Probably, but may not be as frequent.


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## glycerine (Dec 3, 2010)

Rifleman1776 said:


> tbroye said:
> 
> 
> > Have you let Craft Supply know? After a couple of years of daily use they might not replace it but may send replacement band and clip cap. Their supplier may have not packaged the kit properly and mixed the parts. I don't know if I could tell the difference.
> ...


 
But if they send you replacement parts, you can always pop it apart and press in the new parts...


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## IPD_Mrs (Dec 3, 2010)

Rifleman1776 said:


> BTW, due to a shoulder injury and surgery, I have not had any serious shop time for quite a few months. I do hope to be back 100% before spring.
> Thanks for asking.


 
Frank don't tell me you shot yourself in the shoulder.  :biggrin:

Honestly I do not think CSUSA had a clue about this, nor would they unless their staff personally packages every kit.  I beleive the kits are packaged in Taiwan.  I may be wrong on this but seriously doubt that CSUSA packages pen parts to complete a kit.  Yes Frank I think it sucks.  It makes the art center look bad, you look bad and CSUSA look bad.  The customer doesn't care who is at fault, they just feel cheated. 

Now the big question.  How can you be sure of what you get without buffing compound and a wheel on ever fitting?


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## gawdelpus (Dec 3, 2010)

glycerine said:


> gawdelpus said:
> 
> 
> > I bought a couple of Rhodium Lotus pens on Runout earlier in the year from CSUSA . When a customer brought back one after a couple of months with severe pitting in the nib holder ext, I replaced it with one from a different kit but matching finish to get him on his way again , I sent a photo of the damage to CSUSA and they refunded the amount paid in full as they had no more to replace it with .Can't ask more than that from a supplier  I am still trying to get a replacement from Dayacom so my other kit is usable ,the wheels move slowly in that direction  cheers ~ John
> ...



Not sure on the customer , but if you are having a similar problem then it makes sense. the human body has an electrical charge present (about 5 volts I think ) and sweat would give you a salt charged medium ,just what's needed for light electro plating ( or damaging plating already done )
with some of the cheaper platings I understand that they can have an epoxy coating ,which until it wears off would insulate the plating ,best is not always best hehe. Cheers ~ John


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## bensoelberg (Dec 3, 2010)

MLKWoodWorking said:


> Honestly I do not think CSUSA had a clue about this, nor would they unless their staff personally packages every kit. I beleive the kits are packaged in Taiwan. I may be wrong on this but seriously doubt that CSUSA packages pen parts to complete a kit.


 
I've been through CSUSA's warehouse. I definitely did not see anybody hand packaging pen kit parts, just bins full of prepackaged kits. If the wrong part was put into the kit, it happened before it got to them. They got screwed also because now their reputation is being criticized. Keep in mind that they don't want a bad name anymore than you do.


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## Dudley Young (Dec 3, 2010)

Nick said:


> Frank,
> If in fact the plating is 10k or something else and you got "several years" of service, you did good. IMHO before slaming Craft Supply, you should make sure of your claims by contacting them direct and giving them a chance to respond.


 I agreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!


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## Jgrden (Dec 3, 2010)

Frank, this was very obvious. Unless you are a chemist or jeweler you would never know the difference until the plating wore off.


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## Jgrden (Dec 3, 2010)

I think a very important point is that I should carry a "seller" pen instead of the old tarnished bullet pen I like so well.


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## Smitty37 (Dec 3, 2010)

*It Does NOT matter*



jttheclockman said:


> Smitty37 said:
> 
> 
> > jttheclockman said:
> ...


 
It does not matter what the price is...he is entitled to get what he paid for...If he bought TN Gold, he should get TN Gold,  I don't care if it was the freebee in a buy one get one free sale.


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## randyrls (Dec 3, 2010)

Rifleman1776 said:


> BTW, due to a shoulder injury and surgery, I have not had any serious shop time for quite a few months. I do hope to be back 100% before spring.
> Thanks for asking.



I'm glad to hear you are on the mend.  Get better soon!!!


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## Smitty37 (Dec 3, 2010)

*not me*



Dudley Young said:


> Nick said:
> 
> 
> > Frank,
> ...


 
If the plating is 10K and he bought TN Gold as he stated at the onset...the fact that the 10K wore fairly well doesn't matter.  He did not get what he paid for..


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## bobleibo (Dec 3, 2010)

Talk about timing......
I walked into CSUSA just yesterday (I only live a few miles from them) in need of 3 of the plastic portion of the center band couplers for 3 kits that I lost -  my own fault. I asked if they possibly had some they could sell me. Without blinking an eye, the person at the counter walked in back and came back a few minutes later with the parts I needed and would not accept a dime. I walked out about 30 minutes later with about $100 worth of stuff since I was already there. They always treat me great. 
I'd certainly give them a call and a chance to make things right prior to posting any critiques here especially if I got a few years of use out of the kit. 
Just my 2 cents worth......
Good luck
Bob


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## louisbry (Dec 3, 2010)

The kit in question has been 10k gold at CraftUSA for at least the past four years. I have bought it in group buys for about $4.00 but sparingly because of the wear characteristics of 10K gold. However the same design in rhodium, which I prefer has been a little more expensive. I only bought the gold version when someone wanted the design in gold and they were made aware of the inferior wear characteristics.


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## Rifleman1776 (Dec 4, 2010)

I contacted CS, they offered a 10K kit as a replacement.
I can replace the cap with Tn easily. But, it is my practice to CA the bands in place. Not likely I can replace the band.


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## Nick (Dec 4, 2010)

louisbry said:


> The kit in question has been 10k gold at CraftUSA for at least the past four years. I have bought it in group buys for about $4.00 but sparingly because of the wear characteristics of 10K gold. However the same design in rhodium, which I prefer has been a little more expensive. I only bought the gold version when someone wanted the design in gold and they were made aware of the inferior wear characteristics.


Louis seems to have the best solution for you. CS has offered to replace the kit ith out question. If that is not a satisfactory solution to your problem, try to have future kits replated locally to your specifications. IMHO this thread has gone on long enough.


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## PennedDown (Dec 4, 2010)

Frank,

I know what will make you feel better and it will be therapy for your shoulder. Grab a fly rod, leave Mountain Home and travel a short distance down Hwy 5 to Salesville. Wade into the Norfolk River and catch one of those beautiful rainbow trout and your troubles will disappear!  :biggrin:

But seriously, I've had just a couple of problems with parts from CSUSA and they were very quick to replace and send them out to me at no charge. Just like others have said, let them know so they may be aware of possible problems with their suppliers.


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## Moosewatcher (Dec 5, 2010)

I just trashed 10 of the gold plated compact mirrors because they corroded and pitted in their boxes.  A customer bought 2 of them and when I dug them out I saw that all of them were no good.  Had to call her and tell her I could deliver them.  I got some from PSI and some from CSUSA, don't know which was which.  These were finished with inserts.  Now I'm thinking some of my customers will never buy again because I sell trash.  I had a similar problem with gun metal plating on sketch pens.  If you held them in your hand for about 3 minutes the plating would come off.  Very discouraging.

Ken


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## Smitty37 (Dec 5, 2010)

*Hmmmm*



Moosewatcher said:


> I just trashed 10 of the gold plated compact mirrors because they corroded and pitted in their boxes. A customer bought 2 of them and when I dug them out I saw that all of them were no good. Had to call her and tell her I could deliver them. I got some from PSI and some from CSUSA, don't know which was which. These were finished with inserts. Now I'm thinking some of my customers will never buy again because I sell trash. I had a similar problem with gun metal plating on sketch pens. If you held them in your hand for about 3 minutes the plating would come off. Very discouraging.
> 
> Ken


 
Well if the plating corroded and pitted it wasn't gold. Most of the time the base metal is pretty resistant to corrosion as well and the alloy metals used in 10 carat are normally pretty safe too. You might have gotten hornswaggled on what you bought.  I have some metal on my watch band that looks like gold too but it isn't, I don't know what it is but the watch was too cheap for it to really be gold.


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