# A comprehensive CA guide



## Randy Simmons (Oct 4, 2012)

I have gotten a LOT of PM's about giving a pen a good CA finish, so I figured I'd just put "my way" out there. 

A CA finish is, in my opinion, the best and most trusted way to professionally finish a pen. The shine and glasslike feel you get, along with the intense durability, is something that you and certainly your customers will love. That is assuming, of course, that you do it right.

There are a few things you will need. A bottle of thin and medium CA glue (some people use thick, I prefer not to). Micro-mesh sanding cloth, and a few of those little bags that your pen parts come packaged in. You may also want some accelerator.

First, have the "turning" done. Get your ends down to bushings, sand to 600 grit (I noticed that in your other thread you had sanded the wood down to 1500 grit. I usually find that this isn't necessary.) Make sure that the piece is clean. Get out any tool marks, sanding scratches, and most importantly dust. 

Put one of those plastic bags over the finger you'll be applying finish with. I like to run my lathe at only 840 RPM to keep the liquid from being slung off and forming blobs. Hold your finger against the bottom of the wood (not that tightly, just make contact) and hold the CA bottle against the top, and apply a layer of thin. Move your finger along with the bottle, and keep the layer even as you move. The first layer will probably soak in almost instantly and/or dry on the surface, which is exactly what you want, it will strengthen the structure of the wood. After that layer is dry, repeat the process with another layer of thin. This one will also dry relatively quickly. 

Now for the medium. If you have a lot of part bags, change them out after each use, it prevents the flakes on the surface of the plastic from sometimes getting stuck in the finish. Repeat the process. 

This stuff will take longer to dry, as it is thicker and not soaking into the wood as much. This is where you may want to use accelerator. I don't use it, but you may want to. Whether you use aerosol or a squirt bottle, stand back (for the aerosol I would say 2-3 feet, for the squirt bottle about 6-12 inches) if you are too close, it will dry unevenly and look awful, and you'll have to sand it off and start over. I usually do 2-3 layers of medium, you may want more depending on the wood, but definitely no less than two. You don't want "holes" in your finish when you sand.

Now for the real magic. That raw CA prolly looks pretty shiny. You haven't seen anything :wink: I personally like to wet sand, I swear by it. It will prevent your finish from getting too hot and makes the micro mesh more effective. Start with the fifteen hundred. You don't need to spend long, only about three seconds, to get the lumps and bumps out of the top layer. The same goes for the eighteen hundred and the twenty four hundred. But make sure the layer is smooth. It won't be quite shiny yet, but you'll get there.

Tip: keep your hands moving and the paper wet. If you get the CA too hot (it's basically a very thin layer of plastic) it will melt and you'll have a brown ring of melty CA that is very hard to get off. You also need to distribute your hand pressure across the wood to make sure every area gets and even sanding. This will keep your micro mesh from degrading as well

Once you are at thirty two hundred, You'll want to take a little longer. This is when you start to really polish. I like to count to five for each tube I sand on. Do this until you reach four thousand.

Tip: Take a rag of cloth and wipe all the wet CA dust off the pen between grits. The dust particles are the same size as the previous grit, which isn't good for sanding and makes getting a clean polish difficult.

Now you're almost ready for four thousand. Stop the lathe, and examine your finish. Make sure you haven't sanded through in any places, and that there are not any "lines" from when you applied the finish, because four thousand and below won't be able to eliminate them. These streaks will be clear and somewhat diagonal, and you should be able to feel them.

After you are sure that your finish is free of defects, start with the four thousand. I spend longer here, I'd say count to eight. Repeat with six and eight thousand. Once you're down to twelve thousand, I count to ten and really make sure I do a good job. Again, wipe off the CA dust. Once you're done, stop the lathe and bask in the glory. But wait! there's more!

Now you've got to get the thing off the bushings. It can be more of a challenge than you might think. CA can (and should, so you know the ends are done well) "bleed" onto the bushings and glue them together, at least on the surface. There are two ways to separate the bushings. The easiest is to carefully bend the tube and bushings apart until one side cracks (right along the seam where the bushings and wood touch), then you can wiggle the collar out of the tube. If it's really stuck, you can use a disassembly rod (or something else that will fit into the tube) and give it a few taps. Make sure you have a way to catch the bushing to make sure it doesn't go flying. DON'T twist the bushings off. That's the easiest way ever to split the grain in half. 

If you have any pieces of finish hanging off the end of the tube, use your fingernail to push them in toward the center. If you pull them outward, you can bananapeel the finish you worked so hard on (ask me how I learned that)

You're all done! Press your pen together and enjoy your handiwork. It may take you a few (or in my case, twenty three) tries to get it just right, but it is worth the effort. 

Also, in order to preserve the quality of the glue, you'll want to keep it refrigerated. If you live in a cold, low humidity, or high altitude climate, you shouldn't have many problems. But down here in the south when it can get up to two hundred percent humidity, and other mind-bendingly miserable conditions, having your glue sit around in the garage isn't too good for it.

Enjoy!
Randy 

Any other thoughts would be great. I prolly left something out.


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## Schtick (Oct 4, 2012)

*Question on Durability-Old Pros*

Thanks for the info.  I have heard over and over the durability of CA finishes.  I have had beautiful results with CA, but  I have also had  several pens that I have insisted on taking back because the CA  started to chip or fog after a year or two.   I have not found  CA to be a durable finish, at least  not over time.   

Any old pros want to post a picture of a  2-3 year old  ,  daily use CA finished pen and what techniques work for the long haul?  Most of my failures have been on  Oily woods like  Olive.  So maybe that is the problem.

Thanks for the help   Schtick


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## EricJS (Oct 4, 2012)

Schtick said:


> Thanks for the info. I have heard over and over the durability of CA finishes. I have had beautiful results with CA, but I have also had several pens that I have insisted on taking back because the CA started to chip or fog after a year or two. I have not found CA to be a durable finish, at least not over time.
> 
> Any old pros want to post a picture of a 2-3 year old , daily use CA finished pen and what techniques work for the long haul? Most of my failures have been on Oily woods like Olive. So maybe that is the problem.
> 
> Thanks for the help Schtick


 
Yes, the oily finishes are more prone to clouding. All my clouding problems stopped as soon as I started "sealing" the ends of the blank with CA.:wink:

Edit: The only chipping I encountered was from prying loose the bushings after gluing them to the blank. I now use the delrin "eliminator" bushings to eliminate that problem.


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## Tom T (Oct 4, 2012)

Thank you for the time you spent writing this.  Us new guys need help.  I have not made the jump to CA.  Just using friction polish right now.


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## greggas (Oct 4, 2012)

Schtick said:


> Thanks for the info.  I have heard over and over the durability of CA finishes.  I have had beautiful results with CA, but  I have also had  several pens that I have insisted on taking back because the CA  started to chip or fog after a year or two.   I have not found  CA to be a durable finish, at least  not over time.
> 
> Any old pros want to post a picture of a  2-3 year old  ,  daily use CA finished pen and what techniques work for the long haul?  Most of my failures have been on  Oily woods like  Olive.  So maybe that is the problem.
> 
> Thanks for the help   Schtick



For oily woods all you have to do is wipe them down with acetone a few times (how much depends on the wood) until you are not picking up any more oil on the rag.   Wait a minute or so until the acetone is al evaporated and then finish with CA in whatever method you use.

I learned this tip on this site about three years ago and have not had a blister or cloud since on over 600 pens

Good luck


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## bastallard (Oct 5, 2012)

When I apply CA I use a 60 degree live center and a 60 degree dead center and no bushings, and after applying the CA I take a piece of 400 or 600 grit sandpaper and carefully sand any excess CA off the edge of the pen tubes where they meet the centers.  There is a detailed post on how to do this somewhere on here, I'm not sure who posted it, but it works for me.


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## rherrell (Oct 5, 2012)

Randy, while I'm sure your method works...FOR YOU...I think you'll find that there are as many different methods for applying CA as there are members of IAP.

My method is completely different from yours and works...FOR ME!:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::wink:


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## rherrell (Oct 5, 2012)

qqq


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## BSea (Oct 5, 2012)

rherrell said:


> Randy, while I'm sure your method works...FOR YOU...I think you'll find that there are as many different methods for applying CA as there are members of IAP.
> 
> My method is completely different from yours and works...FOR ME!:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::wink:


+1

I've watched a few others put on CA, and watched several video's.  I've never seen 2 people do it the same way yet.

I use 10 coats of CA, 5 thin & 5 medium.  And I use bounty paper towels rather than the plastic bags.  I use 10 coats of CA because the way I fold the 1/2 of the towel allows for 5 applications before I throw it away. So 5 coats of thin for 1/2 of a towel, and 5 coats of medium for the other half.   So there isn't a real reason to use 10 other than that.  In fact I used to use 8 till I found a way to fold the towel a little tighter with each application.

And I also agree with bastallard, and not using bushing to apply finish.  I realize that some don't have 60 degree live & dead centers, and use the mandrel for finishing, so that option is not available.  But I feel it's the best way. YMMV

I also spend more time with the MM.  I haven't timed it, but I know I use the 1st several grits way longer than 3 seconds.  If I had to guess, I think it would be closer to 30 seconds per pad.  One thing you didn't mention about using MM is to stop the lathe, and sand lengthwise.  Do this for each grit of the MM.  I think this is a very important step for a mirror finish.

As far as getting the excess CA off the ends of the blanks, I use a *sanding mill* from Rick (look near the bottom of the page).  If you want your pens to fit together with absolutely no gaps between the blanks and the fittings, then this tool is a must IMHO.  There are other ways, but this is the fastest & best way I've found.


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## yorkie (Oct 8, 2012)

Do you sand, polish and apply the CA all at the same rpm?  I'm guessing you sand faster but do you apply at the lower RPM in order to avoid overheating the CA?​


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## eliasbboy (Oct 8, 2012)

Thanks SO very much for that write-up.

I'm REALLY new to using CA.   I read about it here first and tried it, with horrible results.   I would get the plastic bag stuck, I'd burn the wood, I'd get terrible streaks, and finally if I DID get a good coating on it would get ruined when I tried to get the blanks pried off the bushings.

What solved everything for me was to turn to speed WAY down to apply the CA.   Also, I read about the "eliminator" bushings in another thread here.   They are made specifically for applying CA and are resistant to it, therefor do not stick to my blanks.   I have not had one failure (knock on wood pen) since I started using them.

They were purchased at "penturners products".   Here's a pic:


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## eliasbboy (Oct 8, 2012)

BSea said:


> rherrell said:
> 
> 
> > Randy, while I'm sure your method works...FOR YOU...I think you'll find that there are as many different methods for applying CA as there are members of IAP.
> ...



Thanks for that!  That is the very next thing on my shopping list.


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## Randy Simmons (Nov 29, 2012)

yorkie said:


> Do you sand, polish and apply the CA all at the same rpm?  I'm guessing you sand faster but do you apply at the lower RPM in order to avoid overheating the CA?​



I usually don't change the speed. I am sure that a lot of people would scream at their monitor "Of COURSE you have to turn it down!" or some nonsense, but I turn everything at 1440 RPM. I have a belt speed Nova 1624-44 and I hate changing speed. As long as you keep your MM wet, your touch light, and your hand moving. 

Cheers!!


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