# Need Help with Photo



## olsenla

Hi,

I just received my American RBL Studio light box.  I am using the two lights that came with it on the sides.  I am using a knock-off Ottlight on top and in the front.  I am using a Canon A520 camera.  This is the picture and I really don't know what to do with it.  Neither this photo or any of the others that I posted tonight have the wow factor that I was hoping for.  Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Larry


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## Tea Clipper

1. Turn on macro mode by pressing the flower button (you should see the flower icon)
2. Turn flash off
3. Set camera to AP and set f/stop to 8
4. With the lights on, and everything in place except the pen:
a. place a white card/paper in place of the pen
b. go into your cameras setup and pick custom white balance and press set button
c. remove white card/paper and place pen
5. Take picture

I hope I didn't forget anything. [8D]


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## olsenla

Thanks Ron.  I will try that tonight when I get home from work.  I had the flash off and I was in macro mode, but I had the camera on auto.  I didn't know anything about the white balance or f/stop.  Thanks again, I will post the results.

Larry


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## Mikey

Tea Clipper. Does this method work with most all cameras, or just that one? I thought I was getting nice pictures, but if they can get better I'm all for trying.


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## Tea Clipper

That's the general formula for all cameras.  Proper white balance to ensure correct color, and a deep depth of field (large f/stop) to ensure the pen remains in focus.  (When in macro mode, the depth of field may only be a few inches, so a proper focus point is also critical.)

You may also want to add a target somewhere in the frame that will be cropped out later that would allow you to set black/white/midtone points (in photoshop, for example).


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## gketell

If you have the ability to go to "full manual mode" add one step after setting the white balance.  Put an 18% grey card (available at your photography store or artist supply store) in where you plan to have the pen (angled so it picks up light from all the lights).  Set your shutterspeed for "perfect exposure" for the card at the f8 you selected earlier.  Remove card, put in pen and shoot.  As you aim at the pen it will register either very high or very low (depending on your background) but the exposure will end up being perfect for the pen, which is what you care about.


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## olsenla

Well, this is what I ended up with after taking Ron's suggestions.  I think it looks better that the original picture I posted.  I know I need to fuss with the light placement and focus.  Hopefully that will come with experience.  To tell you what a novice I am, I didn't even know how to set the tripod low enough to get a head-on shot till this morning.  gketell, I am going out this afternoon to see if I can find a 18% grey card and then I will try your suggestion.  Thanks for all the help so far!!





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## Tea Clipper

You still have a bit of a focus problem, and I realized that I did forget a step and this should help:

Set your camera up for a 2 sec timed release.  That way you don't accidentally jiggle the camera when you press the shutter button.


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## olsenla

Thanks for the reply Ron.  I am using the timed release (2 second) but I don't have a clue why it won't focus good.  The pen is about 4" from the camera lens.  I push the shutter button 1/2 down till I see it focus, then push it all the way and it counts down the 2 seconds and then takes the picture.  I'm studying the manual now---but sometimes I think it might as well be written in a foreign language.  I'm really on unfamiliar ground.  Thanks and please let me know if you think of anything else I might try.

Larry


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## Skye

Keep in mind, I have no idea what I'm talking about, but I think your light is too difused. Even the painted metal part of the clip's clare looks fuzzy.


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## DCBluesman

> _Originally posted by olsenla_
> <br />I am using the timed release (2 second) but I don't have a clue why it won't focus good.Larry



I'm not too proficient with photography, but part of your focus problem lies in your object not being squared to the lens.  The stand shows your pen to be angled with the finial being further away than the nib.  It's not much, but with a 4" focal distance, the percentage is significant.


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## gerryr

Check your camera's instruction manual and see what it says about the macro focusing distance, there should be a range.  If you are outside that range, the camera cannot focus and nothing except moving the pen or camera will fix it.  Bear in mind that depth of field is dependent on both the f-stop used and the distance to the subject.  Depth of field decreases exponentially the closer the camera and subject are, so at macro focusing distances, and even using f/8, the depth of field is likely to be around 1".  Lou's suggestion is correct, but in your case, I think you're outside the macro range of the camera.  Also, on most cameras, macro only works if the lens is set at the shortest focal length - not zoomed.  The suggestion of using a gray card is absolutely correct as was the suggestion about setting the custom white balance.


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## DCBluesman

Yay for me! [] My first response to a photography question and I didn't butcher it!  Thanks for all of your help in getting me started, Gerry!


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## gerryr

Lou, you were doing pretty good before I came along.  I didn't get you started, I just tweeked you a bit.[:0][]


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## Tea Clipper

Here's the A520 specs on focus when in macro mode: (I have the same camera as you do)

2.0" - 1.5ft Wideangle
11.8" - 1.5ft Telephoto (zoom)

So reading between the lines... if you used zoom, you will be changing the minimum focus distance anywhere from 2" to 11.8".

I do not use any zoom whatsoever, and postion the camera approx 8-10" from the pen which is about midrange for our camera.  However, in my pictures the pen is not full frame -- what I do is crop the photo and usually resize it when I save it for my website.


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## gketell

The more the depth of field (DoF) the more of the pen will be in focus.  There are three things to remember about DoF.  1) The wider the angle of the lens, the less the DoF; the more telephoto the more DoF. 2) The bigger the f-stop the better the DoF.  3) DoF will extend about 1/3 towards the camera from your focus point and 2/3 away from your camera from your focus point.

So to maximize your pen focus do the following: set your f-stop as big as you can f22 or bigger for SLRs; back the camera up a bit so you are in the telephoto range of your camera's lens; and manually focus the camera about 1/3 back from the nib.

For lighting "perfection": adjust your white balance to match the lighting you are using (read your manual, but the 18% grey card can usually be used) (or use a pure white light box / sheet and "daylight" flourescent bulbs and set your camera to bright-sunlight mode); adjust your brightness for the lighting you have, not the pen you have (again, the 18% grey card is your best friend); 3 lights: one left/low/back + one right/high/forward through the lightbox for even lighting and one front-top right over the camera without the lightbox to produce the highlights you like (look through your lens and move the light until you get the reflection you want).  

I used the "daylight mode", 3 lights method, and f22 to get 

.  I needed to back up a bit to get more of the telephoto into the f-stop focus range; it is still a little soft.  This was taken on black acrylic for the reflection.


GK
ps in the second photo above your background has a sharp bend.  You can have it gently curved from vertical to horizontal to get rid of the lines in the background.


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## scubaman

> _Originally posted by gketell_
> <br />1) The wider the angle of the lens, the less the DoF; the more telephoto the more DoF.


I think you got that backwards...  or forgot to add 'for the same field of view' or something like that - and then it's a secondary effect, isn't it?  Here is a useful link for DOF and another one

One comment on the aperture:  Many lenses are actually sharper not stepped down quite as far as f/22.  In the end it's a trade-off betweem DOF and lens performance.  Most point and shoot cameras are limited to f/8

What is your camera and favorite lens?  Mine's a Nikon D70 with 60mm or 105 macro lens.


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## gketell

Scuba,

Yup, you are correct, I listed that backwards[]:  The Wider-angle lens the deeper the DoF.  Thanks for catching that!  

It is a trade-off, I agree.  The best way to figure out your proper f-stop setting would be to have a striped piece of paper laying front to back along your pen and then play with the fstop until you get sharp results on each stripe from just in front of your pen to just behind your pen.  That would give you the "minimum" f-stop to get a perfect picture and (hopefully) keep your f-stop setting in the middle of the lenses abilities for best performance.

I knew that the point and shoots had less of an f-stop range but I didn't know they were all f8.  I actually took "f22 for your SLR and f8 for your..." out of the post because I wasn't sure so wanted the shooters to look up their camera's limits.  []

I use one of two cameras depending on mood.  For the posted pictures I use a Canon D20 with the kit 18-55 lens.  I need to get a better lens but that one does well for most everything other than trying to do macro stuff.  I also have a 50mm macro lens that I don't use because it is too hard to get the framing right using the light tent and tripod.  The other camera that I use for most of the "quickie" shots (of pens/my wifes jewelry/etc) is her Casio Exlim ex-s500.  It takes great pictures in macro mode but doesn't have a "manual" mode so I always end up fiddling the image in iPhoto to get the lighting correct.  I much prefer using the grey card and having perfect lighting to start with.  

The other "grey card" post where the person is using a white/grey/black card to use photoshop to get perfect lighting and color balance is a great hint if don't have a "full setup" like I've been talking about.  $99 for photoshop and "a few" dollars for the grey card and your done. Much cheaper solution especially when you consider you really want some photo editing software no matter what you do with the camera rig.

GK


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## bob393

Nice picture.


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## olsenla

Thanks to everyone, you have been most helpful.  I have spent last evening and this morning trying to figure out what they were trying to tell me in the manual.  Your comments have been quite a bit more help.  It turns out I was doing several things wrong.  I have cut down on the amount of difussed lighting, I went to center focus, I quit using the telephoto and placed the pen about 10" from the lens.  I used Microsoft Picture to crop and resize the image.  I know these are not perfect, but they are the best I have been able to do this morning.  These were taken F8, Macro, 2 sec timer, 1 flourecent desk light next to the camera, spot focus, and pen 10" from lens.  Thanks again for all your help and any more suggestions you might have.

Larry





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## les-smith

Hey olsenla, isn't this fun.  Trying to get the pen to look as good in the photo as it does in person.[]  All in do time, that's what I keep telling myself.


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## Rmartin

Thanks for all the helpful information. I plan to try out all the suggestions, just as soon as I finish thumbing through the yellow pages for a professional photagrapher in my area. []


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## headref

Larry,
Where did you get your light? I have been making pens for the past 4 years and I quess I should have gotten the camera details taken care of long ago.
Nice pen & picture.

Bill


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## olsenla

Bill,

I bought a studio in a box from Amazon.  It included a box, a tripod, and two lights.  Here is the link:  http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009E3UUY/105-7281278-2884422
It was about 10 dollars cheaper when I bought mine in December.  Hope this helps and thanks for the compliment.  I'm still trying to figure photography out.

Larry


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## RogerGarrett

Don't underestimate the power of Adobe Photoshop - in fixing white balance, hue/color, and sharpening photos that are pretty close to begin with.  Here is your original picture that you posted after some editing:




Best,
Roger Garrett


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## olsenla

Thanks Roger!!  That is the look I am looking for.  I have some photo editing software coming that I bought on ebay.  Now I am anxious for it to arrive so I can play with it.

Thanks again,
Larry


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## philland

Superb advice given above.  One point to reiterate is, as Greg stated, make sure you are using "manual focus."  You said that you press the shutter down 1/2 way, then when properly focused, you press the shutter to release.  If you will set your lens to manual instead of AF (if your camera can do that), the camera will not be able to change your focus.

[]


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