# Pen In The Hat, and other pen and wood swaps



## RussFairfield (Mar 25, 2006)

Lou in DC posted a question about donations. That has prompted me to post this message about pen and wood swaps.

These swaps of pens and wood have become a popular part of this IAP Site. The 2006 Pen In The Hat had a large participation, and there are several others being discussed for the future. However, they are not without their problems. One of these problems is the growing number of "no shows" that are evidenced by the messages in the PITH-2006 thread.

I have no idea what others may have experienced with these swaps, but mine hasn't been good. Prior to the PITH-2006 for which I am waiting, I have participated in 3 pen and 2 wood swaps, and I mailed out my 3 pens and 2 packages of wood. In exchange I received 1 pen (Thank you, Old Griz), no wood, and no acknowledgement that anything I had sent had been received.

I think that is a sorry response. And, that is the reason that you won't be finding my name among the participants in future swaps. 

From my perspective, these exchanges have been a failure. Have others had a similar experience?

Do we need to start making rules?? Making folks use real names and addresses might solve one problem and create another. Would kicking them out of the IAP prove anything to  someone who has only posted 2 messages in the past 2 years? Would haveing a 2-star membership requirement make the swap any better?

Maybe the solution is just sitting back and not making commitments that we are unable to keep, and keeping those we make.

I will get off the soapbox now.


----------



## Dario (Mar 25, 2006)

Russ,

I have been very lucky to always swap with excellent people.  Be it with the pen (only once) or with wood/blanks.  A few times I actually feel bad that I ended up getting a lot more than hat I bargained for.

While your experience is sad...I hope your position about not joining anymore will change.  Though it can never be justified, I bet those who got your name really got intimidated (I know I would).  

There's a few icons here amongst us...you are one of them.


----------



## gerryr (Mar 25, 2006)

My prespective is definitely skewed, [] since the person who was to make a pen for me was Mudder and it's a beauty.  I got a thank you from the person I sent a pen to, but haven't seen anything of him around here for a very long time.
This was my first pen swap since I wasn't around for the previous one.  I fully understand why you would view it as a failure.  There isn't really any excuse for someone to voluntarily sign up for a swap and then just blow it off, even if they're supposed to send a pen to somebody like you, Russ.  I would feel intimidated if I got your name, but it would just make me work that much harder at doing the best job I could.  Personally, I look forward to the next one, but I suppose my attitude could change depending on what happens next time.


----------



## dubdrvrkev (Mar 25, 2006)

Maybe if we viewed the exchanges as a donation it wouldn't sting so much, and if you got something in return it would be an unexpected surprise. Yes that is half sarcasm, but half truth too.
I didn't get in on the PITH '06 because I had other things going and didn't want to rush a pen or be late on it.
Sorry for your bad experiences with these things, maybe someday one will work out and bring a better light on them.


----------



## jeff (Mar 25, 2006)

I'm really sorry to hear this has happened. Anyone who has not received a pen in a swap may send me the no-show member's name and I'll look into it. 

Russ points out an actual use for the stars! It's up to the person running the swap, but how about requiring that a person with less than two stars send their pen first to their partner in the swap. Of the known no-shows, were they regular contributors?


----------



## Fangar (Mar 25, 2006)

I know that I got a wonderful pen in the exchange.  My recipient dropped off the face of the earth and in turn blew off his recipient.  Knowing this, I contacted who was to be his recipient and gave him the pen that I had made for my original guy. 

Kinda weird that one would step up and enter their name and then bail out without a word.  In my case, I hope that all is well with him as he has not logged posted here since January.

Unfortunately, people procrastinate, give up when somtehing does not seem good enough, and fret about quality.

Unfortunately, it is to be expected with exchanges.  Regardless of the reasoning, it is still bad tact to leave one hanging without word.  

Sorry to hear that you have been left hanging...

Do you turn aluminum?

The reason I ask is this Russ... If so, I would like to send you a couple of drilled, tubed and faced blanks for you to work with yourself.  My reasoning is that when you think of the latest pen exhange, I would like you to think about receiving something nice as a result of it.  The blanks.  If you are interested, drop me a PM.  It would be my pleasure.    Especially from all I have learned from your site exchange of information.  

Cheers,

Fangar


----------



## gerryr (Mar 25, 2006)

Fangar,
That's a cool idea.  If all of us who've learned from Russ's site and posts sent him a pen or some blanks, he'd need a dumpster for a mailbox.[][]


----------



## RussFairfield (Mar 25, 2006)

> _Originally posted by jeff_
> <br /> Of the known no-shows, were they regular contributors?



I don't remember them as being regulars of the IAP at the time, but I didn't keep track.


----------



## vick (Mar 25, 2006)

Russ sorry you have had such back luck.  I was thinking along the same lines as you that if the pen in the hat was limited to established members or the pens to go to nonesstablished members were "held" until there pen was confirmed to have been delivered would probably increase the sucess rate but would be harder for he volunteer organizers to run.  I personally had my beautiful canary wood pen hand deliverd to my house by the member that drew my name, and the person I sent to promptly confirmed that he recieved my pen.


----------



## gerryr (Mar 25, 2006)

If Russ hasn't received his pen from this year, the person who was to send him his pen is still active here.


----------



## Dario (Mar 25, 2006)

> _Originally posted by gerryr_
> <br />Fangar,
> That's a cool idea.  If all of us who've learned from Russ's site and posts sent him a pen or some blanks, he'd need a dumpster for a mailbox.[][]



Good idea Gerry and Fangar,

I actually sent him a care  package last week for the very same reason [].  A thank you for all the help he gave most of us.


----------



## LanceD (Mar 25, 2006)

Just go back to the original thread. The pairings are listed for everyone to see.


----------



## RussFairfield (Mar 25, 2006)

2006 isn't a problem. I sent a pen, received a "thank you" via a message posted here, and a note that my pen will be coming. The difference is that this years exchanges were with folks who have been long time menbers of the IAP. Previous exchanges were not. That was my reason for my suggesting a 2-Star qualifier for the exchange.

While the number of posted messages might prove intent, I am not in favor of any separation by skills. To do so would prevent the newcomer from getting a pen from one of our skilled pencrafters, and denying them the inspiration that they might get from such a pen.  However, that doesn't relieve them from their responsibility to let the sender know that the pen was received. 

Maybe just talking about the problem, if there is one,  will solve it.


----------



## dmadis (Mar 25, 2006)

One solution would be to have a coordinator who receives all the pens, (with accompanying return postage) and sends them on to the recipients.  We do this with a woodblock print exchange and it works out well.  A deadline is set and all the prints are sent at the same time.  The number of participants is limited, if anyone drops out a reserve member can be put in place.  Rules we use and the exchanges of prints are at http://www.barenforum.org/  The coordinator is a volunteer; in a pen exchange it would be a delightful job to be able to examine all the pens before mailing them out.


----------



## RussFairfield (Mar 25, 2006)

> _Originally posted by dmadis_
> <br />One solution would be to have a coordinator who receives all the pens, (with accompanying return postage) and sends them on to the recipients.  We do this with a woodblock print exchange and it works out well.  A deadline is set and all the prints are sent at the same time.  The number of participants is limited, if anyone drops out a reserve member can be put in place.  Rules we use and the exchanges of prints are at http://www.barenforum.org/  The coordinator is a volunteer; in a pen exchange it would be a delightful job to be able to examine all the pens before mailing them out.



That would solve the problem with stragglers and no-shows. But, it would add to the burden of the coordinator. 

I hope Jeff is reading all of this.


----------



## its_virgil (Mar 25, 2006)

There was a deadline set and its just as easy to mail to the reciepent as it is to mail them to someone who must handle and remail every pen. Honoring a commitment and following through is all it takes to make these exchanges work. My pen is being delayed but the sender is keeping me informed of its progress. It is delayed because of someone else, not the maker. The person who recieved the pen I made was thoughtful enough to acknowledge it arrival and offer his thanks for the pen.
Do a good turn daily!
Don
[/quote]_Originally posted by dmadis_
<br />One solution would be to have a coordinator who receives all the pens, (with accompanying return postage) and sends them on to the recipients.  We do this with a woodblock print exchange and it works out well.  A deadline is set and all the prints are sent at the same time.  [/quote]


----------



## rtjw (Mar 25, 2006)

> _Originally posted by dmadis_
> <br />One solution would be to have a coordinator who receives all the pens, (with accompanying return postage) and sends them on to the recipients.  We do this with a woodblock print exchange and it works out well.  A deadline is set and all the prints are sent at the same time.  The number of participants is limited, if anyone drops out a reserve member can be put in place.  Rules we use and the exchanges of prints are at http://www.barenforum.org/  The coordinator is a volunteer; in a pen exchange it would be a delightful job to be able to examine all the pens before mailing them out.



We got if I remember correctly 160 something pens for the contest. It is really really really really really really hard to keep track of that many pens.


----------



## smoky10 (Mar 25, 2006)

In 2005 when the pen exchange came up I was excited about it and started my pen right after I found out who it was. Looking at his sign in name I knew he must like the outdoors so I thought deer antler and walnut might be nice. I sent his pen in a week or so and waited to receive mine and I'm still waiting. When PITH 2006 came around I was hesitant to join in but I did. I mailed my pen out right away, but I didn't have to wait long for mine. I started to pass this one up because I was disappointed last year. 
  I don't think I would be to intimidated to send a pen to anyone. If I did my best, regardless of my skill level, it would be appreciated by most of the better pen turners on this forum.


----------



## airrat (Mar 25, 2006)

I hope that people would have enough morals to deliver if they commit to something. However, it is just not so.  

The thing I have against sending the pens to one person would be the cost and the burden they would have.  I dont want anyone to get left out.  Maybe the two star posting would be good.  Nothing against newer members I actually have enjoyed meeting my pen receiver.  We have been keeping in contact with emails and when I finally get this box to the post office we have exchanged some blanks. (Splinter it is coming I promise)

I look forward to the next pen exchange and will participate in it.


----------



## Mudder (Mar 25, 2006)

I for one have been following this thread very closely and I must say that I am sorry to all who have not received a pen from the Pen In The Hat 2006. Unfortunately there is no real way to enforce these types of exchanges and we must rely on the integrity of everyone involved that they will live up to their commitment.

My original plan was to have every participant send me their real name, mailing address and a valid telephone number before I would put their name on the list but reading how the privacy policy of the site is currently written I donâ€™t think that would have been allowed? Perhaps it should be viewed as an event totally outside of the site and run that way? Perhaps I should have made up some sort of entry form for everyone to fill out and mail to me before the person was entered?

Perhaps we should have had everyone send in a deposit so if they did not live up to their agreement the money would have been forwarded to the person who did not receive a pen? 

Perhaps I should have had all of the pens mailed to me with money for forwarding postage to the recipient? Who would have been responsible if the person did not include the postage to forward the pen? And what about all of the time involved to the organizer if it were done that way? As it was, this â€œlittle eventâ€ took roughly 18 hours to do. It was not too bad because it was 10-15 minutes a night except for the matching of participants and making sure it was done correctly and nobody was double posted.

I agree with Russ. I was fortunate that I received a very special pen from Laserturner. This pen sits on a special shelf along with my birthday present from DCBluesman and the Sierra pencil that was submitted for entrance into the Penmakers guild. I was also fortunate that the person for whom my pen was made liked it and posted so. I do not think it should be all that hard for everyone to live up to the commitment that they made or at least to let the organizer know that they would have a problem living up to the commitment. I did receive 6 emails from members that would have been willing to make and send an extra pen to help out another member who might have run into a problem but to date I have not heard from ONE person letting me know that they had an unforeseen problem and would not be able to participate.


I also agree that there should be some kind of guideline set up so that this could be a more enjoyable experience for everyone. 

Again, to all who did not receive a pen, please accept my sincere apology. I feel that I have in some way let you down. Iâ€™m Sorry.


Scott


----------



## airrat (Mar 25, 2006)

Mudder your not responsible for the irresponsible.


----------



## clewless (Mar 25, 2006)

Scott,

You certainly are to be praised for undertaking the job.  I was happy to give and receive a pen, but wouldn't blame you for another's lack of committment.

I'll happily send a pen to someone who was shortchanged and NOT expect one in return.  The pleasure of giving is enough to satisfy,  getting one in return is an added pleasure.

Thanks again.


----------



## DocStram (Mar 25, 2006)

Please carefully consider the idea of two star ratings. I may only be a one star guy but I am honest, diligent, trustworthy and an American to boot. 
On the other hand, I'm hesitant to participate only becuase I want to avoid disappointing the recipient.  I've been turning pens for only about 6 months. I just can't imagine sending one of my pens to Russ or Dario or Patricia or Ron or Richard or Fangar or Gerry or any of the others gods of penturning ... maybe in a couple of years ... or 4 ... or 5.  (sorry if your name wasn't included as of the gods. Believe me, I admire and respect all of you and your contribution to the PenMaking World.)


----------



## Hastur (Mar 25, 2006)

> _Originally posted by its_virgil_
> <br />There was a deadline set and its just as easy to mail to the reciepent as it is to mail them to someone who must handle and remail every pen. Honoring a commitment and following through is all it takes to make these exchanges work. My pen is being delayed but the sender is keeping me informed of its progress. It is delayed because of someone else, not the maker. The person who recieved the pen I made was thoughtful enough to acknowledge it arrival and offer his thanks for the pen.
> Do a good turn daily!
> Don



Not to hijack the post but I use your pen everyday at school and my students' (852 of them) love it when I show it to them and then tell them that it is made out of snakeskin.


Scott this was the first exchange I have been in and I thought it was great.  Don't "Monday morning" yourself about what you could have, should have, or would have done.  I am sorry some people are having trouble getting their pens, maybe we should get the names of all who have not received their pen and match those names up again to the new list. Just a thought.


----------



## Mudder (Mar 25, 2006)

> _Originally posted by DocStram_
> <br />Please carefully consider the idea of two star ratings. I may only be a one star guy but I am honest, diligent, trustworthy and an American to boot.
> On the other hand, I'm hesitant to participate only becuase I want to avoid disappointing the recipient.  I've been turning pens for only about 6 months. I just can't imagine sending one of my pens to Russ or Dario or Patricia or Ron or Richard or Fangar or Gerry or any of the others gods of penturning ... maybe in a couple of years ... or 4 ... or 5.  (sorry if your name wasn't included as of the gods. Believe me, I admire and respect all of you and your contribution to the PenMaking World.)




Two of the most stunning pens that i've seen come from this swap came from relative newcomers to penturning. The number of stars under your name has NOTHING to do with your integrity.


----------



## Johnathan (Mar 25, 2006)

Well, I too am sorry for those that have had some bad experiences because of a few "problem" members. As I am organizing the blank swap right now, I truly hope that we will have no problems with it. []


----------



## wood-of-1kind (Mar 25, 2006)

Let's put this thing into perspective. How many participants have not followed through? I bet it's only a small number. Shame on you!!! There's always a rotten apple in the barrel right? Why should it be different here? The inconsideration of a few should not be a deterrent for future pen-in-the hat exchanges. I did not participate in the last one BUT will in the next, despite the possibilty of having to deal with a 'no show'. I may be disappointed in not getting one BUT I still have the pleasure of knowing that someone else appreciates the one that I've submitted. No sour grapes here JMHO.

-Peter-[]


----------



## AdamB (Mar 25, 2006)

RussFairfield:
I don't have many stars but here's a swap just for you.

Send me a email with your address.
I will send you some stuff.

Sorry things didn't work this time around for you

Adam


----------



## L32 (Mar 25, 2006)

I for one gave and recieved a pen. I must say I got better than I gave but I enjoyed It and the pen(s)I got inspired me to do better. I dont think the process should be complicated to much or people wont participate and participation is the ultimate goal of a thing like this. If you signed up and didnt fulfill you obligation shame on you. You missed out on something special perhaps the names of the procrastinators should be collected and they should be barred from the next exchange or any future sign up's unless they have a crediable excuse. I would be happy to keep track of the none participants names and could give them to any future exchange or swap coordinator's. just a suggestion[B)]


----------



## Dario (Mar 25, 2006)

> _Originally posted by airrat_
> <br />Mudder your not responsible for the irresponsible.



I agree 100%.

This is a toughie...a lot of new comers are as responsible as can be.  But being an established member has it own merits too.  

As I said, my experience have all been pleasureable and I might get a bit disappointed too if I didn't receive anything (not because of not receiving a pen but because of the person letting me down).  BUT I will most likely keep joining the next swaps...if I can find time.


----------



## gerryr (Mar 25, 2006)

Unfortunately, I think some people get caught up in the excitement of the moment when something like this is announced and they see others signing up.  Then they lose interest for one reason or another and don't have the courtesy to withdraw.  More than once I almost signed up for the Charity Pen deal, but my lack of experience and generally not very well done pens kept me from doing it.  Then I started to see pictures of the pens people were donating and I was really glad I didn't do it.  There may have been some of that going on with this also.  I have no idea if Johnny actually received pens from everyone who said they would donate one, but my guess is that some people probably said they would and then didn't follow through.


----------



## Ron Mc (Mar 25, 2006)

I'm not sure that I like the 2 star idea. This will eliminate a lot a great turners from the swaps which in turn will rob them from the joy of giving. I participated in my first pen swap this year and found that the joy of sending one of my pens to a fellow turner was fantastic. It's nice when another turner actually gets to see your work first hand. The pen that I received was wonderful and it sits in my private collection with some of mine and some from other turners.

I'll tell you what. If for unforeseen reason you signed up for the swap and couldn't come up with a pen during the time frame given go ahead and e-mail the member that you were supposed to mail one to and let them know that you just aren't ignoring them.
This would be a great gesture.


----------



## pete00 (Mar 25, 2006)

Fortunately most that participated had a good time. I cant think of anything different to do next time. Human nature being what it is, there will always be some that dont deliver. 

Come to think of it, maybe next time , have a cut off date for the acknowledgement of all recipients. If someone does not here from there partner by such and such date reassign some names. And / or the â€œgroupâ€ has a couple spares pens ready for the folks that dont receive one(especially for the new folks).  I would give an extra one out if i had any ready.  

pete


----------



## woodmanplus (Mar 25, 2006)

I am sorry to hear that some people have had a problem whith the exchange. I am farly new to pen turning , but must have been lucky as I sold a good number of sets for Christmas and als have a number on consignment at present. I was lucky to recieve my pen and  am proud of it. It is made from two of my favorite woods Walnut and Maple, from the makers own property. I make use some of my own wood. I made a display case for my pen and people that see it love it. I was offered a good price for it but I made no qualms,that it was never to be sold.
  I do not have an answer to the problem, but am sympothetic to the problem. 
  I am a new member and have enjoyed the forum and the Charity Pen and the exchange. I also, al;most did not join iether,because I felt that I was not good enough. I have enjoyed both more than I can put into words.
  It is a shame that these situations happen, but we just do have some bumpy roads to travel as humans.
  I just hope that this does not deture any future exchanges.


----------



## DocStram (Mar 25, 2006)

As the "Designer Guys" on HGTV (one of my wife's favorite shows ... while I head to the lathe) would say ... this may sound "harsh" but maybe we could have a forum called "DEADBEATS" and list the names of people who received a pen but never sent one.  Ok, "DEADBEATS" does sound pretty rough ... maybe call the forum .... "PenHeads" or something.  It might be incentive enough to get people to fulfill their commitment.


----------



## woodscavenger (Mar 25, 2006)

Shame on me.  I contributed to this mess.  I was paired with Russ.  He sent me the DI slimline with and wood tip  with the metal nib buried in it.  I love it.  I posted a thank you on the board and in an email.  I also said a pen would be coming late.  We just had a newborn....she's finally sleeping right now but I have not been out to my pen shop in many weeks.  I have a ton of good pens I could easily send but I have been working on a completely new design that has given me more trouble than anticipated which really make me feel terrible after seeing this mess. 

Apologies to all.  

Russ, I promise you will get your pen.


----------



## wayneis (Mar 25, 2006)

I've been involved in three exchanges and have had good luck so far and it is disturbing that some have been burned.  I think this may be the first exchange that this has happened.  We have had, it seems to me anyways a rash of new members in the last six months or so.

I don't think that the stars should have anything to do with deciding wheather a person should be included, what I would propose is that everyone should be a member of the IAP for maybe three to six months or so.  Anyone could join up and just recieve a pen and drop out without sending one.  Like I said, I think that somehow who ever runs an exchange should check and make sure that everyone has at least been a member for a certain period of time.

Wayne


----------



## Mudder (Mar 25, 2006)

> _Originally posted by wayneis_
> <br /> Like I said, I think that somehow who ever runs an exchange should check and make sure that everyone has at least been a member for a certain period of time.



Does this mean that you are volunteering to run the next one?

It boils down to one fact; whether you've been a member for 6 months or 2 years if a person does not have the integrity to live up to their commitment no amount of checking or rules are going to fix it.



> _Originally posted by wayneis_
> <br />
> I think this may be the first exchange that this has happened. We have had, it seems to me anyways a rash of new members in the last six months or so.



Did you read the post by Russ?



> _Originally posted by RussFairfield_
> <br />
> 2006 isn't a problem. I sent a pen, received a "thank you" via a message posted here, and a note that my pen will be coming. The difference is that this years exchanges were with folks who have been long time menbers of the IAP.


----------



## BigL (Mar 25, 2006)

I've had mixed feelings about this.  I received an absolutely wonderful pen from Dario.  My pen that I sent (I sent it express mail when it was completed) was not received by my recipient until March 14th.  I was late due to work related problems (I own a funeral home and we had 102 deaths since January 1 and the day I sent the pen - a HUGH number for a small 8 person funeral home.)  My recipient sent me an email at the end of February saying he felt he had been slimed - also implying that I did not have much integrity.  I am new to turning - in fact, this is only the 3rd pen I've turned and the first I completed without help â€“ and I had put alot into this.  I drove the 50+ miles to Craft Supplies to find the right kit and pick out the what I thought was a great piece of wood (I chose a Statesman and cocobolo) and purchased the kit, bushings, both drill bits, etc.  I responded to every email my recipient sent me and also sent him others.  To date, he has not acknowledged that he received it. I have to say that this diminished the joy I felt in creating this for my IAP friend.  I would just close by telling you all how much I appreciate your willingness to share - I would sign up again for this again.  I hope we can do this again in the future.  Lane


----------



## Dario (Mar 26, 2006)

Lane,

I am so sorry that you went through that.

We should expect nothing from these swaps other than receiving a pen.  We all know that these pens are made by different people...of different skill level and talent. I believe that before joining the PITH, we should first think hard about what we expect from it.  Personally the craftsmanship of the pen is immaterial, it is the camaraderie that it promotes that matters.

What I received is a very special "GIFT" from cigarman.  I am very happy with it and I am not going to ever part with it.  I hope everyone feels that way on whatever "GIFT" they received.


----------



## micah (Mar 26, 2006)

I was personally very reluctant to signing up for the wood swap since I didn't recieve a pen in the PINTH. The gentleman wouldn't reply to my inquiries, but was told by the person that sent him a pen that he was in contact with him and was very prompt in returning his emails. I wonder why? O'Well, although it kinda ticked me off, I decided to give it another shot.
As for the star system....I'm not sure if I'd qualify for the swap if you have to have a certain number of stars, but would totally understand and would accept it if I wasn't included due to time or number of posts on my membership. I haven't payed any attention to how many stars I even have, but will now look.[]
Just my 2cnts.
Micah


----------



## Radman (Mar 26, 2006)

> _Originally posted by DocStram_
> <br />
> On the other hand, I'm hesitant to participate only becuase I want to avoid disappointing the recipient.  I've been turning pens for only about 6 months. I just can't imagine sending one of my pens to Russ or Dario or Patricia or Ron or Richard or Fangar or Gerry or any of the others gods of penturning ... maybe in a couple of years ... or 4 ... or 5.  (sorry if your name wasn't included as of the gods. Believe me, I admire and respect all of you and your contribution to the PenMaking World.)



I CAN RELATE!  Imagine my horror when I discovered I was to send a pen to Jim Lambert!  At the time, I had only a month or two of pen turning under my belt.  Jim was most gracious in his reception of my pen and for that I'm most thankful, more than he'll ever realize.  Having that experience, I would not hesitate to partake, no matter how much experience one has.  Everyone had a starting point.

Regarding the no shows from this past PITH event, I would suggest that those that signed up but failed to particpate not be allowed in the next go around.  Maybe that's been suggested, I've not yet gone through the entire thread.
Radman[8D]


----------



## mrcook4570 (Mar 26, 2006)

Could a list be compiled of all those who did not receive a pen?  And more importantly, could one be compiled of all those who did not send a pen?  This would help to see if the 'deadbeats' are newcomers to the site, regulars, or if they just totally disappeared after receiving their pen.  By identifying the problem few (I hope it is a small number anyway), suggestions to improve future exchanges would have more relevance than just trying to guess what the problems are.

That said, my personal experience was fantastic.  I received a beautiful pen and my recipient emailed and posted when he received a pen from me.  I also very much enjoyed seeing the pictures of the pens that were exchanged.


----------



## RussFairfield (Mar 26, 2006)

My original message was out of curiosity about "no-shows". Every exchange has had a couple conplaints here on the IAP forum, and I have been aware of others that did't get into the forum. I was curious how many there were and whether they were having any effect on participation in the pen and wood exchanges. And, I was curious if there was any agreement that some Rules might be submitted to Jeff that would make the exchanges a beyyer experience for everyone.

I thank everyone who has offered to correct my less than perfect experience with previous exchanges, but I will decline your kind offers because that was not the reason for the message.

I read the messages as saying that those who are sending pens are not concerned that they might not get anything in return, and that the bad apples have not yet spoiled the barrel. I admire that generous spirit. I accept that doing nothing is an option, and will leave it at that.

However, I can't accept anyone on the receiving end of a pen not having the courtesy to acknowledge that they have received what was sent.

I will say "Thank You" for your responses. And with that, I will shut up on this topic, and leave it to future volunteers to run these exchanges, and thank them for their efforts.


----------



## Trapshooter (Mar 26, 2006)

(first-sorry for the long post) 
I would like to add a little something based on my experience with the PINTH.  I am a "newbie" that I like to believe takes advantage of the wealth of information shared on this site and puts it to practice. This has been a slow process for me wich 90% of what I do now is reading and re-reading so I have not put out many pens.  I like to see thought put into each pen I make and make it mean someting for the person who recieves it.  Half of this echange has fulfilled my expectations, as I have recieved emails from the person who recieved my pen with positive comments.  I have looked into that persons photo album before I made my pen and it was intimidating to me, however the feed back I recieved from him means more than he may ever know.  I have read his responses on this forum and I know that someone who makes quality pens has MY pen in his collection with other pen turners. Thats a good feeling for a newbie, or anyone I guess.  That alone will make me anxious to be part of the next PINTH exchange.
  The other half is a little disapointing, as I have no collection, I was looking forward to starting mine with this first pen recieved. 
 I recieved first communication from my partner asking for my address so I could be sent a pen.  This too was a little intimidating to me as I had not started on the pen I was making and I probibly would get my pen before I had sent one.  Then I sat back and did nothing.  It was only until messeges started showing up that I realized that I am not alone.  At that point, I responded in kind.  Not knowing if there were legitimate reasons I did not want to offend and used my post office as a reason to suggest for my missing pen, hopeing that the person making my pen is following this thread (thus avoiding embarrasing posts)and shoot me an email that at least it was sent or it was not forgotton.
  Then I realized that I needed to be more responsible by bringing the conversation to the person directly.  Yesterday, while my echange partner was on line, I sent and email through this website looking for info, I hope he sees it and responds.  If there is a reason then no harm no foul in my book.  If I recieve no response, I will remember his name and move on.  There are far too many quality people on this site to worry about one.
  As for suggestions of sending pens to people who have not recieved one, ONLY speaking for myself, I would not expect or accept a pen given to me under these circumstances.  I do however look forward to next year when I can exchange something I have worked on for a specific individual and will graciously accept one made for me.


----------



## RussFairfield (Mar 26, 2006)

Several have suggested that a list of the deadbeats be published after every exchange. Public disclosure is not something to be taken lightly. I see two problems with doing this.

The first is the logistics of doing it. Everyone will have to notify whoever is the leader of the exchange, Scott for the PITH-2006, that someone has failed to honor their commitment. Other than doing that, Scott will have to sort through the messages posted on the forum to determine which complaints are real or immagined. That is asking a lot of a volunteer.

The other problem is the personal judgement required to make such a list. Who is determining whether someone met their commitment or not?? There will always be the obvious ones who have just disappeared; but what about the less than obvious? Do we really want someone's reputation ruined by a public posting just because there is one individual who in their judgement feels they were slighted in the exchange?? 

I think it is best left to the participants to discuss the "bad risk" people on this forum. Those who are the topic of the discussion will have three options - defend their actions, disappear, or renew their membership under a new name.


----------



## Ron Mc (Mar 26, 2006)

I have a quick question.
Could all of this be eliminated if the person you give to send one to you as well.
Basically you could pull two names then those two people trade pens.

As far as disclosing names of people that haven't sent pens I believe this is an extremely bad idea! We don't know their circumstances and don't have the right to do that.

This point of the IAP is to assist fellow turners not to make anyone look bad.


----------



## Mudder (Mar 26, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Ron Mc_
> <br />I have a quick question.
> Could all of this be eliminated if the person you give to send one to you as well.
> Basically you could pull two names then those two people trade pens.
> ...



I ask again; Does this mean that you are volunteering to run the next one?

It was done this way so there would be no hard feelings. For example one person made a Jr Statesman but received a cigar.

And Wayne, Why don't you post the email that you sent to me in the public forum for all to see? I took your post as monday morning quaterbacking and as far as I am concerned if your not willing to run an exchange, you have little to say.


----------



## Ron Mc (Mar 26, 2006)

Mudder,
I hope that you didn't find my post as a complaint. It wasn't meant that way at all. I'm just trying to help find a way to make sure it doesn't happen again.
I'm sorry if it was taken in a different context as was meant. I believe I have stated that you did a wonderful job and commended your for it. If not then I am telling you this now.
I don't recall you asking me if I was volunteering for the job next time already. Must have mist it. If next year no one that has done this type of thing before wants to do it then I'll be more than happy to take care of it.
Once again, Thank-You for running this.[]


----------



## DCBluesman (Mar 26, 2006)

If I were as clever as some of the folks on the site, I would insert the "beating a dead horse" emoticon here. [8D]
[editing per psudo request]



<br />
[end edit]

My post from a couple of days ago has been given it's own life and I'm not sure it really needs it.  Mudder ran this event better than I ran the one in 2005 and for that I thank him.

Yes, there are a few, stress the word FEW, folks who didn't live up to their end.  There were good reasons for some (like Shane), there was good communication from others who still want to fulfill their commitment.  All-in-all, by my estimate, 95% or more of us participated and enjoyed the heck out of it.  That's a pretty small percentage of the people who failed...at least in my book.

My original note had two intentions.  First, to serve as a not-so-gentle reminder to those who hadn't 1) sent their pen and 2) acknowledged the receipt of their pen.  Second, to make sure that anyone who hadn't received a pen let me know such that we can be sure to share a keepsake.  The response of volunteers to make additional pens is nothing short of phenomenal!  It makes me even more proud to be a member here.

So please, let's not overly complicate this for the 5% or less who haven't kept up their part of the bargain.  Let's focus on the 95% who have.  

<b><b>For those of you who still have not received a pen, please drop me a note.</b></b>  <b>The volunteers are eager to send you a special keepsake to remind you of the Pen in the Hat 2006!</b>

(And yes, Mudder, I may well volunteer next year. [])


----------



## micah (Mar 26, 2006)

One thing that I would like to see if I had the compasity too would be to take some of the noshows and get their IP addresses, compare them and see if maybe this might be one or two "bad seeds" that are registering under differant names getting several pens sent to them. It just seems suspicious since I've heard more than once that the "no shows" only had a few posts.
I know it sounds like some kind of conspiracy theory, but it would still be interesting too see, and the next time we have a swap just compare any new comers with the same IP. Personally, if someone was checking my IP and cross checking it with known "no-shows" I wouldn't have a problem with it since I have nothing to hide.
Just another 2cnts.
Micah


----------



## wayneis (Mar 26, 2006)

Mudder you seem to have the impression that anyone that offers an opinion or a suggestion is attacking or putting you down for the way that you ran PITH exchange, speaking for myself that is not the case at all.  All anyone is trying to do is offer suggestions and opinions as how to do it better next time around.  Sense when is that not allowed here?  Did I miss a new rule?  As long as I have been a member here we have always offered opinions and suggestions on how to do or make our site better, most of the time I don't think that anyone was burned at the stake for doing so.  So, get off your high horse and take the these offers and suggestions for what they are meant, no one is blaming you for anything in fact many people here have praised you and the job you did.

Wayne


----------



## Thumbs (Mar 26, 2006)

Would this problem simply be solved by changing the event timing or rules?  

1. Everyone who wants to participate signs up. 2. Those who signed up let the event coordinator know by a certain cut-off date that their pen is ready.  3. Those who have responded to the event coordinator are then matched up by him for the exchange.  4. More likely, real pens are then exchanged not promissory notes.

We don't really know why some of the people who promised pens didn't.  Maybe they died.  Maybe they got scared.  Maybe they were just nasty.  We don't know in most cases.......  Maybe this method would help minimize the missing exchanges.  FWIW!


----------



## BigRob777 (Mar 26, 2006)

Wow, this is a hot topic.  I got in on this swap and was happy with what I got and, as a beginner, sent the best pen I had ever done.  The person who got my pen is a much more accomplished turner than I am, but he was very kind in his appreciation of the pen.  I have done swaps, as I am a member of a mostly now-defunct wood swapping forum.  I have had great experiences with it and one long drawn-out one.  The first koa I sold here came from my first swap.

The stars are, of course, not a guarantee of integrity, but if a pattern were to emerge, which showed that people were doing the swap, who were new to the forum and didn't reciprocate, then it may be a viable solution (a 2 star minimum).  After all, it doesn't take that much to get to 2 stars, as I recall.  It does show a committment to this forum, but less than 2 stars doesn't show the opposite.  Maybe it will help. 

I like Jeff's idea, though it is a lot on him.  Thanks Jeff, for offering it.  Fortunately, I won't need your service with this swap, but it is good to know that the guy at the top is willing to do this.

<b>IMH</b>,(sometimes)<b>O</b>,
Rob


----------



## fhinde (Mar 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by RussFairfield_
> <br />Several have suggested that a list of the deadbeats be published after every exchange. Public disclosure is not something to be taken lightly. I see two problems with doing this.



Russ, there is another reason also. I have been absent from this forum for over a year due to health and other commitments. I have only been able to make 3 pens in all this time and hated ever moment that I was in the shop. Hopefully this is about to change but I would have been hard pressed to make and send a pen during that time. Of course I would have made every effort to contact the person I was to swap with and let them know why I was not able to respond. Still with as many people now in the IAP there are bound to be personal problems beyond a persons control.


----------

