# AAARRRRGGGHHH!!!! MEN......



## Snnej (Dec 11, 2010)

I know there are a lot of ladies here. I just need to vent a bit. I was at my closest Woodcraft store. Normally I would go alone but this time my boyfriend went with me. As usual I am one of the only women in the store. I get that it is not as common to see women woodturners but there a bunch of us out there!!! Two men made comments to us about my boyfriend being the turner of the two of us. He does not turn BTW. The first guy had the nerve to pull by BF over and say "you're the smart one look at this". Can you believe this guy? So rude!! After that the man who rang us up had the gall to say that my BF needed to "get to work" on all of the pen kits that I had I just bought! I usually laugh it off and correct these men by saying that I am the one with a garage full of tools. I live in California and like to think that we are progressive but some men just keep proving me wrong! My disclaimer so I don't offend all of the men who might read this is that I know plenty of men who are wonderfully un-sexist so I am in no way generalizing the male species. Ladies..Share the sexist comments you've heard. I'd like to hear your stories.
Jenn


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## turbowagon (Dec 11, 2010)

Pics or it didn't happen!


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## DurocShark (Dec 11, 2010)

turbowagon said:


> Pics or it didn't happen!



THIS!

:biggrin:


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## phillywood (Dec 11, 2010)

Snnej said:


> I know there are a lot of ladies here. I just need to vent a bit. I was at my closest Woodcraft store. Normally I would go alone but this time my boyfriend went with me. As usual I am one of the only women in the store. I get that it is not as common to see women wood turners but there a bunch of us out there!!! Two men made comments to us about my boyfriend being the turner of the two of us. He does not turn BTW. The first guy had the nerve to pull by BF over and say "you're the smart one look at this". Can you believe this guy? So rude!! After that the man who rang us up had the gall to say that my BF needed to "get to work" on all of the pen kits that I had I just bought! I usually laugh it off and correct these men by saying that I am the one with a garage full of tools. I live in California and like to think that we are progressive but some men just keep proving me wrong! My disclaimer so I don't offend all of the men who might read this is that I know plenty of men who are wonderfully un-sexist so I am in no way generalizing the male species. Ladies..Share the sexist comments you've heard. I'd like to hear your stories.
> Jenn


Jenn, I know you feel hurt that those men made those comments, but I think they meant no harm. It's just one of those things that more men are involved in this trade than women. Now, if the guy mad e direct comment towards you or put you down or called you name or something then you should be all over him. Or, better yet turn his nose round on the lathe.
It's just like you won't find guys going to lingerie department that much and trying to sort out through all the stuff that comes for ladies.
Now, I don't know about your boyfriend, if he was really committed to you then he would have defended you by giving a compliment that's directed towards you ,so those guys would get the message and then give you the compliment, in turn, but if he chimed in with them, then maybe that he is not that proud of your talent or maybe jealous of it too.
Just my .20 cents, because of inflation.:biggrin:
Oh, BTW, you can turn soem nice looking pen and take it to the clerk then rub his nose into it then put CA so it would harden and stay that way. :tongue:
Hope you would have a wonderful Holidays and don't let these kind of stuff bother you.


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## tim self (Dec 11, 2010)

Sorry for you sexist encounter.  Try carrying your pens with you and when they talk about your BF turning, show them what YOU did and tell them he could do is "turn" the TV on.  Then look for their reaction.

And BTW, when it's to cold to turn, I sew.  QUILTING.


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## thetalbott4 (Dec 11, 2010)

While I agree that the guys did not MEAN any harm, they should assume every customer that walks in to thier store is a woodworker. Why wouldnt they? Who will be offended by being assumed to be talented enough to be a woodworker? You might want to run that by the store manager in a constructive way.

These days (thankfully) there are few barriers for anyone wanting to do something. Being in a construction related field, I am happy to see more and more females on the job sites as skilled workers, engineers, and architects. On the return trip from Cancun last week, our captain AND co-pilot were female.


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## IPD_Mrs (Dec 11, 2010)

Our Rockler doesn't mess with Linda! She probably knows more and has done more than the current jokers that are working there. That store also has a good history of having female employees. Woodcraft is another story. Even I don't like going into that store. I would guess that the guys doing this just don't know any better. They were most likely raised in an environment that the women did not do things like this. However ignorance is no excuse for bad manners. I posted not too long ago that Linda replaced the ignitor in our furnace. She also put the clerk in his place when she went to pick up the part. One thing you could do whenever you go into the store is to talk above the employee's heads. The duds will leave you alone and the good ones will look for you to come in and be more accommodating. I also encourage you to send your comment to Woodcraft through the corporate web site. If they are anything like Rockler, it will be addressed. We had a guy at Rockler go out of his way for us on a project several years ago. We sent an email to corporate and the next week were in the store, the other employees were tormenting the clerk who went the extra mile because he got recognition from the home office for his efforts.


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## Jgrden (Dec 11, 2010)

As of last Thursday, Woodcraft in Houston does not mess with Mrs. Grden. She was not as polite as you were. I think the word Mary used was "asserted".


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## Drstrangefart (Dec 11, 2010)

Yeah, I hear worse than that out of co-workers frequently. I am all for equality and level fields where they can be level. I'll never give birth and ladies will never get kicked in the nads, but those are really the exceptions, not the rule to social equality. I've been working with my wife to get here to where she can turn pens she wants to be turning without having to ask for help. She pulled off high-gloss medium CA finishing with just over the phone instructions from me. That's impressive in my book. Had to have Dad walk me through it like a dozen times.


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## Gary Beasley (Dec 11, 2010)

Yeah, my wife is a more aggressive shopper at Rockler and Woodcraft than I am. She likes to turn the acrylics and is keen to try new style pen kits when she can get them. She was the one to get me started on pine cone pens when she saw a likely pile of cone cores at a park we were visiting. Only thing she shys at is the table saw, it makes her nervous with all those sharp teeth moving so fast.


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## Drstrangefart (Dec 11, 2010)

Gary Beasley said:


> Yeah, my wife is a more aggressive shopper at Rockler and Woodcraft than I am. She likes to turn the acrylics and is keen to try new style pen kits when she can get them. She was the one to get me started on pine cone pens when she saw a likely pile of cone cores at a park we were visiting. Only thing she shys at is the table saw, it makes her nervous with all those sharp teeth moving so fast.


 
She is an aggressive shopper. That is VERY true. Never seen her around the table saw, though.


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## Rfturner (Dec 11, 2010)

Sorry that you had a bad experience. My favorite though is when people flat out do not believe you that you make pens this goes for guys or girls. There are MANY talented men and women in wood working, there are many from both sides of the gender line that I am not even in the same ball park as, like Toni and her amazing PC pens. Cherish your skills and pass them on to others around you


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## Chthulhu (Dec 11, 2010)

Snnej said:


> ... I was at my closest Woodcraft store ...



Your closest store is what, Westminster/Garden Grove? I'm not the least bit surprised, I'm sorry to say. :-/


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## Displaced Canadian (Dec 11, 2010)

MEN, I'm glad I never was one. Oh wait, umm never mind. :biggrin: Here in the Seattle area it is never safe to assume that the guy is the craftsman. When my wife goes with me they usually talk to both of us. I am rather well known at both stores and they also realize that my wife is an important part of the creative process. Most of the employees are woodworkers and love to talk to anybody about what they know. Sorry about your experience.


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## Andrew Arndts (Dec 11, 2010)

Jenn
Sorry you had a run in with those cave men...

and with that.

If all men will recite after me, the man prayer.:biggrin:
"I am a man, But I can Change, if I have to, I guess."


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## PenMan1 (Dec 11, 2010)

I feel your pain, Jenn. Every time we go to the high end kitchen stores, the sales people are all over my wife like white on rice. My lovely wife has many attributes, but doesn't know a spatula from an egg timer.

I would sorta like a new Oster stand mixer and a new set of knives, but not from those yeahoos!


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## Timbo (Dec 11, 2010)

Jenn,

I generally don't like to get personal on forums, but your experience hit an old nerve.  You can't take things like that too seriously...its not worth the stress.  My wife and I are different races (if there really is such a thing).  I can't tell you how many times we're standing in a checkout line together, sometimes talking to each other, and the checkout person asks each of us separately "can I help you".  It ticked me off greatly the first 2 or 3 times it happened because it was so obvious (to me) that we were together.  Then I realized that these folks mean no harm, nor are they ignorant.  People just go with what they're use to seeing...it's human nature...maybe even part of our survival instinct.  The more often they see interracial couples, the less often they'll assume they are not together.  The more often the woodcraft guys see female wood turners, the less often they'll assume they're just along for the ride.
When someone makes that mistake with us now, I don't get upset...I just say "we're together".  I figure that person is less likely to make that mistake again, and I'm doing my part to normalized the world.  OK...back to being impersonal.


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## Mr Vic (Dec 11, 2010)

I work at a Harley Dealership and know the owner would love to get back the millons of dollars in sales lost by just such attitudes of salesmen. They not only showed extreme chauvnistic attitudes but also a lack of good sales traaining. Everyone who comes through the door is a customer looking to spend money. Also a bit suprised your BF didn't correct the lug heads.

Remember the scene from Pretty Woman...Walked into the store and says "Remember me, I was in yesterday and you wouldn't help me....BIG Mistake...."


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## ctubbs (Dec 11, 2010)

Jenn, as  I have mentioned before, I make my living as a construction electrician.  Our work is rough and tumble from time to time.  I have had many working buddies over the past 35 or so years in this trade.  I have worked with linemen and apprentices, but my very best working buddy ever was and still is a woman.
Many men have a problem, even today, with women in the construction trades.  I enjoy them being here with us for many reasons.a  Sue's hands are smaller than mine and will reach into places where mine just will not go.  I am stronger, so I can move more than she.  WE work as a team and get more done that way.
When a woman has to work outside the home, and it happens most of the time today, why not make a decent wage at it instead of less than minimum wage slinging burgers and getting your but groped.
When my wife was treated unfairly at an auto parts store where I do much of my business, I had a short talk with the manager and that problem was solved quickly.
There is absolutely no excuse to treat one sex any different today than the other, no matter what type of establishment is involved.  Not if you want to keep my money coming through your door.  That is one of the quickest ways to move me into your competitors store.
Charles


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## nava1uni (Dec 12, 2010)

Jenn,
I absolutely understand what you are talking about.  For most of my life I have worked in male identified careers and now I am a woodturner.  I have encountered odd comments and downright rudeness.  I don't agree that the comments are not meant to be harmful.  They exhibit small narrow minds and the comments are made without thought because they don't believe that women have the capability to do whatever task or skill.
I have found that on this site there does not appear to be that bias and I find that here there are generally not those types of comments.  One of the reasons that I patronize my local Woodcraft is because not only do they NOT make those kinds of comments, but share knowledge, ask me to share my knowledge and are very encouraging not only to me but any other women and men in the store when I am there.  
The attitudes here make me glad that I have such a place to share, learn and grow my skills as a woodturner.


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## phillywood (Dec 12, 2010)

Jenn, I know you feel hurt that those men made those comments, but I think they meant no harm. It's just one of those things that more men are involved in this trade than women. Now, if the guy mad e direct comment towards you or put you down or called you name or something then you should be all over him. Or, better yet turn his nose round on the lathe.
It's just like you won't find guys going to lingerie department that much and trying to sort quote]

Jenn, I like to clear something above, when I said they meant no harm I meant to say that if the guy is an ignorant then if he knew any better he wouldn't make those comments, plus he just did that good old saying ASS uming that you were not a woodturner. So, what can you expect from a stupid, not much, right?
On the other hands, your BF didn't help either. Here is what I would do next time just ask a qsn about woodworking from them that they would really feel embarrassed for not knowing the answer and *ass*uming.


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## Snnej (Dec 12, 2010)

Thanks for all of your great comments everyone. This is such a great forum.  I need to clarify one thing here. My boyfriend has never allowed one of these comments to pass without interrupting and Clarifying that I am the woodturner not him. He is wonderful and very proud of me. I don't take this stuff personnally I am just amazed at how often it happens. Some stores less than others. My local Rocklers are wonderful. 
Jenn


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## Donnie Kennedy (Dec 12, 2010)

I wouldn't sweat the fact that the people assumed that your boyfriend is the turner. We are wired to make assumptions based on what we know to be typical and woodworking in general is dominated by men. the comment about him being the smart one was tacky and says a lot about that individual, but other than that I think the rest of it was just people being people. I've been around a lot of women in male dominated professions and hobbies, but I'm still guilty of making such assumptions from time to time.

Just the other day I was talking to a customer at work who was buying her husband some Christmas presents so we were talking tools and such. Woodworking came up in the conversation and that lead to woodturning and on to tool making. She mentioned that she had a small blacksmith shop at home and I asked her what her husband makes and she explains to me that SHE is a custom knife maker. Luckily she thought it was funny and we exchanged numbers so go over and see how knives are made, and she is interested in my woodworking and turning... maybe some collaborations will result.


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## jttheclockman (Dec 12, 2010)

thetalbott4 said:


> While I agree that the guys did not MEAN any harm, they should assume every customer that walks in to thier store is a woodworker. Why wouldnt they? Who will be offended by being assumed to be talented enough to be a woodworker? You might want to run that by the store manager in a constructive way.
> 
> These days (thankfully) there are few barriers for anyone wanting to do something. Being in a construction related field, I am happy to see more and more females on the job sites as skilled workers, engineers, and architects. On the return trip from Cancun last week, our captain AND co-pilot were female.


 


Humm  I almost commented on the construction statement but will stay out of it. I too am in construction.


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## dogcatcher (Dec 12, 2010)

This flows both ways.  I also make and sell custom camo hunting gear, when I go into the fabric store with my wife the gals in there always ask my wife if they could help her.  She has to tell them that I am the customer, that she is just along for the ride.  Only difference is I am too darn old to give a flip, I just want so many yards of camo material, and get out of there.  Besides most of the gals won't be there the next time we there, so why waste my time trying to explain it to them.


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## markgum (Dec 12, 2010)

Jean;
  they may have meant no harm, however, in a customer service world there is no place for this.  I would let the owner of the store know about the incident and as has been said, take some of those fancy pens you make with you the next time.  I'm sure you could teach those employees a thing or two about turning. 
my 2 cents worth.


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## JimB (Dec 12, 2010)

My wife has the opposite problem. She doesn't do any turning or woodwork but she often goes with me to Woodcraft and Rockler. She even belongs to the local turning club with me becuase she likes to see all the things everyone makes. 

The 'problem' she has is everyone talks to her like she is a turner and she often has no idea what they are talking about and she is always reminding them that she doesn't turn. Once she reminds them they are still very nice to her and they try to convince her that it is time she gave it a try!

I often see women in both Woodcraft and Rockler and it always seems to me they are treated just like the male customers. Our local turning club has a number of female members who are active turners and have been for a number of years.


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## gwisher (Dec 12, 2010)

I have way more hobbies than my wife and this always brings me to our local Michaels store to get supplies.  I have weekdays off and often go there during the day by myself.  It is amazing how many of the women look at me like I am out of place and should not be in their store.  I had one woman ask me if I needed help finding something for my wife.  I said no this is what I need...

On another note I was raised to be polite and respectful and to hold doors open for women.  I don't know why but it bothers me when I see a woman behind me entering a mall and I stand and hold the door while freezing for her and she looks at me like I'm a rapist and goes to the next set of doors and opens them herself.  I don't know why it bothers me but it does.  I am sorry you went through this as it shouldn't happen.  I think sometimes we as men get treated differently in certain situations as well.


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## dgscott (Dec 12, 2010)

Try to remember that men are God's beta version, women are version 2.0. Didn't have all the kinks worked out first time around, ya know?

Doug


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## gketell (Dec 12, 2010)

My wife has gone though that several times.  One time she went in to buy a sliding compound miter saw.  After talking with the sales man for almost an hour she decided on the Dewalt.  As he is ringing it up he says "your husband will love this".  Considering she had never mentioned a husband...

Another time we were working on a project and we had rolled the table saw out into the driveway to cut some long pieces.  As she is cutting one of the boards one of our male neighbors is driving by.  He stops in the middle of the intersection staring at her with his mouth hanging open.  Not surprising considering he needs help changing a light bulb.

*shrug*


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## jthompson1995 (Dec 12, 2010)

I think it is just human nature to follow the sterotypes we grow up with and it happens to both men and women. 

I used to work at a fabric store, the only male working there, and was (hopefully still am) quite adept at sewing. Many times I would ask a (female) customer if I could help her and she would say "No, I'll just get one of the ladies to help me." It was always funny to me, though, when the ladies they went to ask told them that I could help them better, I knew more about their project than they did.


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## TellicoTurning (Dec 12, 2010)

MLKWoodWorking said:


> Our Rockler doesn't mess with Linda! She probably knows more and has done more than the current jokers that are working there. That store also has a good history of having female employees. Woodcraft is another story. Even I don't like going into that store. I would guess that the guys doing this just don't know any better. They were most likely raised in an environment that the women did not do things like this. However ignorance is no excuse for bad manners. I posted not too long ago that Linda replaced the ignitor in our furnace. She also put the clerk in his place when she went to pick up the part. One thing you could do whenever you go into the store is to talk above the employee's heads. The duds will leave you alone and the good ones will look for you to come in and be more accommodating. I also encourage you to send your comment to Woodcraft through the corporate web site. If they are anything like Rockler, it will be addressed. We had a guy at Rockler go out of his way for us on a project several years ago. We sent an email to corporate and the next week were in the store, the other employees were tormenting the clerk who went the extra mile because he got recognition from the home office for his efforts.



When I was in Houston, my favorite wood store was called The Woodright... there was a sales lady there that I generally would turn to for answers, before any of the guys that worked there... I watched her do a demo and even though I've been turning nearly 10 years, I'm still hoping to improve my skills to her level.  I was really disappointed when she left and went to the Rockler's in Houston... it' was 50 miles away across town.  I was disappointed for me, not for her... it was a bigger store and better opportunity for her.


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## Grizz (Dec 12, 2010)

You need to tell them you are the turner.  If you they say something the first time, and you don't correct them.  They assume they are correct.  This is in your error for not correcting them in the first place.


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## phillywood (Dec 12, 2010)

Grizz said:


> You need to tell them you are the turner. If you they say something the first time, and you don't correct them. They assume they are correct. This is in your error for not correcting them in the first place.


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## LarryDNJR (Dec 12, 2010)

At the Columbus, OH Woodcraft store the owners are a couple, both Husband and Wife.  They have a female employee who when you talk to her you can tell she knows her stuff.  Probably more so than a few of the other guys that work there.  Nothing wrong with that at all.  Half the time I go up to her and ask her questions over the guys.  Sorry about your discriminating issue.

Larry


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## LarryDNJR (Dec 12, 2010)

Grizz said:


> You need to tell them you are the turner.  If you they say something the first time, and you don't correct them.  They assume they are correct.  This is in your error for not correcting them in the first place.



I wouldn't go saying this is error on her part.  Sometimes people are taken aback by the situation at hand and when they have a moment later to reflect they decide was irked them or what didn't.  Maybe next time it arises she will have the chance to address it but I wouldn't fault her for not doing so at the time.

LarryDNJR


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## LarryDNJR (Dec 12, 2010)

gwisher said:


> I don't know why but it bothers me when I see a woman behind me entering a mall and I stand and hold the door while freezing for her and she looks at me like I'm a rapist and goes to the next set of doors and opens them herself.  I don't know why it bothers me but it does.




Post a picture maybe we'll know why.  LOL kidding

What gets me is I hold the doors open for a-lot of people Men, Women, Young & Old and varying races.  You would be surprised how many people just walk by without saying thank you.

LarryDNJR


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## YouthMinisterDan (Dec 13, 2010)

tim self said:


> Sorry for you sexist encounter. Try carrying your pens with you and when they talk about your BF turning, show them what YOU did and tell them he could do is "turn" the TV on. Then look for their reaction.
> 
> And BTW, when it's to cold to turn, I sew. QUILTING.


 
So Tim....are you quilting right now? It is suppose to be 20 in the morning here.


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## ctubbs (Dec 13, 2010)

When I find a lady working in a "men's" store(auto parts, paint, lumber yard) she is the one I need to talk with.  First off she has to try harder and is usually better informed than the men.  Now for my sexist rant. That only applies when the lady is not made up like she is out for the evening and wearing her shirt two sizes too small.  She is there to catch what she can. Sorry for the qualification on my first statement.
Charles


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## tomcatchevy (Dec 13, 2010)

Years ago I worked in an auto parts store and the best coworker I had was a young woman who knew more about cars than all the other guys combined.  She worked with her father in their garage from a very early age and it showed.  I also when I first started turning a few years ago, my female next door neighbour came over to see my wife I decided to show her some of my work.  She came right back an asked if I used rosewood in any of my pens and how big my lathe was.  Turned out that she made Xmas ornaments in her spare bedroom on a little Taig lathe.  Who would have thought??  A little suprising but at the same time it's awesome to find women that know what I'm talking about!!  Keep up the good work!


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## Smitty37 (Dec 13, 2010)

*AAARRRRGGGHHH!!!! WOMEN......*

I find women to be much worse on this sort of thing than men. My wife is treated like a customer just about everywhere she goes anymore, while I am frequently ignored in traditionally women's shops.


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