# I Want a Smooth Pen! --Sandpaper Question



## Johnathan (Feb 22, 2006)

I'm thinking of switching from 3x sandpaper to Finkat--the Japanese stuff. I hear that it's great sandpaper. A bit expensive, but well worth it if it works as good as I hear. As I only turn pens, I'm not worried about the price, just the outcome. Does anyone use this stuff? How does it hold up? Please help me[8D]


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## Dario (Feb 22, 2006)

Never heard of it.

I use Klingspor and micromesh...I can swear by those two brands. []


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## Johnathan (Feb 22, 2006)

Thanks Dario, I use the micromesh as well. The Finkat is through Craft Supply. Where is the best place to purchase Klingspor? Thanks for your help.


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## gerryr (Feb 22, 2006)

You can only buy Klingspor from Klingspor.  I think there's a link on the home page.


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## vick (Feb 22, 2006)

Mirka is also very good paper.


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## mrcook4570 (Feb 22, 2006)

I use the Finkat and find it to be an excellent paper.  It will also outlast most other papers.  Klingspor is also very good.  My experience with 3X is limited - it cut well but did not last as long as 3M.

My coarser grades (up to 400) are 3M - primarily because it is relatively inexpensive and holds up relatively well.  Beyond 400, however, I use Finkat, Klingspor, and MM.


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## TomServo (Feb 22, 2006)

A lot of tool shops seem to carry the Mirka Gold (bulldog). Good stuff...


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## Ron in Drums PA (Feb 22, 2006)

Finkat is good paper, but I use klingspor.

Here is the best answer about sanding  http://woodcentral.com/russ/finish2.shtml


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## leehljp (Feb 23, 2006)

If you want a smooth pen, you will need to go higher than the 600 Finkat that is available at most outlets. I live in Japan most of the time and I found several papers and meshes there that I liked better. What I like best there are their spongy like fibre mesh. Goes up to 8000, which is think is more like a 2000 sandpaper. 

There are several fomats of abrasives here that go higher. One thing that I learned from these fellows on this forum about getting a smooth pen is that it is best to go through the steps of one grit, then the next and so on without skipping a level.


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## Johnathan (Feb 23, 2006)

> _Originally posted by leehljp_
> <br />If you want a smooth pen, you will need to go higher than the 600 Finkat that is available at most outlets. I live in Japan most of the time and I found several papers and meshes there that I liked better. What I like best there are their spongy like fibre mesh. Goes up to 8000, which is think is more like a 2000 sandpaper.
> 
> There are several fomats of abrasives here that go higher. One thing that I learned from these fellows on this forum about getting a smooth pen is that it is best to go through the steps of one grit, then the next and so on without skipping a level.



Thank you all for your advice. I normally go to 600 grit then through the MM. I am really looking for a good quality paper that will last a bit and that will not deposit material into the grain of the wood.


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## Dario (Feb 23, 2006)

Johnathan,

Go to this link 

http://www.woodworkingshop.com/cgi-bin/4EB2BB6C/mac/template.mac/loadHtmlPage?htmlPage=chart_saop_sheets.htm

On lower right side there is a drop down box for "Sheets"  choose "Stearate"

You will get a list of the grits and prices that Klingspor offer.  This is the best sandpaper I've tried...coupled with micromesh.


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## MDWine (Feb 23, 2006)

I have just started using Klingspoor, and it is great!  It doesn't load up as much as the "lesser"  papers (no offense intented).

MM speaks for itself!!

Also, I never sand across the grain.  All my sanding is done on the lathe, not turning, with the grain.  In my opinion and experience, it produces a very fine surface!  Might take a minute or two longer, but is worth the effort, IMHO.[]


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## Johnathan (Feb 23, 2006)

Dario, Thanks for the link. The sandpaper is now on the way. It looks like everyone loves the Klingspor.[]


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## Daniel (Feb 23, 2006)

Not exactly on the topic of this thread, but the "Lesser Papers" comment brought this to mind.
the quality of your sandpaper, wherever you choose to get it, has a mountain of effect on the outcome of your final finish.
"Cheap" Sandpaper leaves far more pieces of itself behind after you are finished with it. with lots of those pieces still imbedded in your wood. 
just wanted to mention that for any of you stuggling for that perfect finish. this could be just one more way to get better results.
I currently use 3X because it is easily available. I keep promising myself to place an order for Klingspor. somehow pen kits keep getting in the way.


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## Dario (Feb 23, 2006)

I also want to add...with proper care the higher end sandpaper lasts very long so in the long run, they are actually much cheaper.


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## Mikey (Feb 23, 2006)

I'm not sure how everyone else does, but you can easily do 50 pens and not go through a full sheet of 3M paper and a set of the MM sanding sheets. Heck, the MM sheets seem to last forever.


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## stilgar (Feb 23, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Mikey_
> <br />I'm not sure how everyone else does, but you can easily do 50 pens and not go through a full sheet of 3M paper and a set of the MM sanding sheets. Heck, the MM sheets seem to last forever.



I must be doing something wrong because I seem to go through MM in a hurry.


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## Dario (Feb 23, 2006)

Brian,

I bought a set of MM more than a year ago...cut 1" strip off it.  Until now I am still using that first batch of 1" strips!!!

So yes, maybe you are doing something wrong.


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## Dario (Feb 23, 2006)

Mikey,

I'm with you...the Klingspor sandpaper I did a group buy on last year is still almost complete.  I probably used less than 1/4 sheet of each making 25 or so pens.  I cut each sheet into 32 pieces (approximately 1.375" x 2.125" each).

For MM, read my post above []


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## chigdon (Feb 23, 2006)

I started using Finkat also and love it.  I use the 400 and 600 of Finkat and one of the reasons I love it is that the 600 is not black.  It keeps you from having to worry about light colored woods.

My micromesh also lasts forever.  I through it into the washing machine every now and then.


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## Johnathan (Feb 23, 2006)

> _Originally posted by stilgar_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...



Mikey, the big problem with the MM is that people get to heavy handed with it. Micro Mesh will fall apart if you get it too hot. I have never replaced my MM and it is still doing great. I always bring down the RPM on the lathe when I get over 4000. I like to sand on the lathe for just a bit, turn off the lathe and sand with the grain. Make sure that you wash your MM, if it gets full of stuff, it will also heat up and "melt". I hope this helps. I'm sure you can find a care sheet on the stuff.[]


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## alamocdc (Feb 23, 2006)

Three words... My Crow Mesh. 'Nuff said. []


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## RussFairfield (Feb 24, 2006)

The grit designations of sandpaper do not represent a uniform fixed particle size. Rather, they are a range of particle sizes; with the majority of them being the stated size. Think of it as a typical bell-shaped distribution curve. The smaller particles are no problem, but the size and how many bigger ones there are on the paper can cause problems. 

I have seen specs that allow 2% of the grit on a sheet to be 3 grit sizes larger than designated. That means that 2% of the grit on a sheet of 320 grit can be 220 or 180 grit depending on the sizes that are screened by the manufacturer. It also means that we would have to sand to 600 or 800 grit to insure that the larger scratches on the surface are made with a grit that is no larger than 320.

Don't buy cheap sandpaper.
The number and size of the particles that are different from that designated depends on the equipment and the quality specifications of the abrasive manufacturer. Unless we have access to their product specifications, we have to rely on either price or experience to determine quality. Cheap sandpaper isn't necessarily a bargain because it usually has a broader range of particle sizes within a designated grit size, and it is the big ones that we don't want because they leave the deepest scratches. 

Quality and tighter specs cost more to make, and we pay a higher price. Micro-Mesh was designed for polishing plastic airplane windows and similar materials. Therefore, it has the tightest grit specification of any sanding medium. To prevent comparison, they made their own grit designations. It is also the most espensive.


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## RussFairfield (Feb 24, 2006)

If anyone is having problems with a short life of Micro-Mesh or getting black streaks from wet/dry paper, you are sanding too fast. Heat is the problem. The backing on Micro-Mesh is a soft plastic with a low melting temperature, and the same is true for the black adhesive on the wet-dry paper.

If you don't want to slow down, then lubricate the sanding medium with water or wax. 

If you don't want to do either, buy Micro-Mesh in larger quantities, and accept black marks as a surface enhancement when you use the wet/dry paper on light colored woods.


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## GBusardo (Mar 1, 2006)

Dario,   Thanks also for the link. One statement in there I really don't understand.  
Rule 3 - Sand through all of the progressively finer grits without skipping any of them, and don't quit before 320.
    "I usually start with 60 or 80, and proceed through 100, 120, 150, 180, 220, 250, 280, 320, and stop at 400,"
Does anyone really 250 and 280 in between 220 and 320? 
Gary


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## Dario (Mar 1, 2006)

> _Originally posted by GBusardo_
> <br />Dario,   Thanks also for the link. One statement in there I really don't understand.
> Rule 3 - Sand through all of the progressively finer grits without skipping any of them, and don't quit before 320.
> "I usually start with 60 or 80, and proceed through 100, 120, 150, 180, 220, 250, 280, 320, and stop at 400,"
> ...



From what I recall (and I do use this as a guide) the easier rule to remember is about 50% increments between grits (i.e. 100, 150, 220, 320, 400, 600, 1000, 1500, 2500, etc.).  Of course you can have more or other configurations but this work great for me.


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## Rudy Vey (Mar 1, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Dario_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...



Who would use such coarse sandpaper for pens:
"...usually start with 60 or 80 grit.."
What tool do you use to turn????
I normally start sanding with 400 (3M yellow paper) and once in a while I need to use 320 or 280 (for real coarse woods like Bog Oak). And then go through all MM grits. My pens are very smooth...


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## RussFairfield (Mar 1, 2006)

You guys are reading this like a bunch of politicians, and leaving out half the story. This was written for bowls and bigger things than pens, and there comes a point where the grain tear-out and shaping problems makes it easier to go to a 60- or 80-grit turning tool to get the job done faster than trying to get the perfect surface with a gouge or a scraper. 

Pens and small spindle turnings have the advantage of being able to use a skew or a sharp spindle gouge and get a better surface on the wood to start with.


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## Rudy Vey (Mar 2, 2006)

> _Originally posted by RussFairfield_
> <br />You guys are reading this like a bunch of politicians, and leaving out half the story. This was written for bowls and bigger things than pens, and there comes a point where the grain tear-out and shaping problems makes it easier to go to a 60- or 80-grit turning tool to get the job done faster than trying to get the perfect surface with a gouge or a scraper.
> 
> Pens and small spindle turnings have the advantage of being able to use a skew or a sharp spindle gouge and get a better surface on the wood to start with.


If we are talking bowls, I agree with you completely. I did not not read the one post where the link to bowl turning was mentioned.


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