# Tripple nSegmented Glue Up Experiment



## W.Y. (Jul 12, 2013)

Here are three identical Segmented  glue ups  with  sacrificial strips attached and ready to run through the planer .
Although they are all identical I am going to "try" to make them all look quite different from each other when turned into bowls . 
Most time involved in this type of thing is the glue up waiting time  and the suspense of seeing how they will eventually turn into bowls  which  can turn into pleasing looking ones  or  ugly ones  . .


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## jyreene (Jul 12, 2013)

Can't wait to see how or looks.


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## W.Y. (Jul 13, 2013)

jyreene said:


> Can't wait to see how or looks.




Here is an update on those three segmented  boards that I glued up  and showed yesterday . 
Although they all started out looking identical I was able to  get three totally different designs from them. 
They are finished with four coats of WB lacquer and feel beautiful in the hand . The pictures sure don't do justice to these three. If there was a gallery close by that would be where I would place them for sale but there are non  locally that are not already full to the door and no room to take on new business. 
There are only three rings  plus the base but they  have the illusion that there are  8 rings plus base viewed from outside and 6 rings plus base viewed from inside. 

Like has been said by many people  , many times , the possibilities with a Ringmaster are endless.


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## Jim15 (Jul 13, 2013)

Wow! Those are just awesome.


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## Tom T (Jul 13, 2013)

Wow also.  I really like the bowls.  Always looking forward to the next post from you.
Some day I will have one of those machines.


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## sbwertz (Jul 13, 2013)

The top picture of the completed bowl is a great optical illusion.  Are you looking at the bottom or the top?  You look at it once and they look concave, the next time they look convex.  The others, the perspective makes it obvious that you are looking at the top or bottom, but that top one is wonderfully ambiguous.

Sharon


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## W.Y. (Jul 13, 2013)

sbwertz said:


> The top picture of the completed bowl is a great optical illusion.  Are you looking at the bottom or the top?  You look at it once and they look concave, the next time they look convex.  The others, the perspective makes it obvious that you are looking at the top or bottom, but that top one is wonderfully ambiguous.
> 
> Sharon



The camera is held above the bowls showing what they look like straight down inside them .


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## theidlemind (Jul 13, 2013)

Beautiful work.


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## Hendu3270 (Jul 14, 2013)

These look great. Very striking appearance.


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## mikespenturningz (Jul 14, 2013)

Wow that is an awesome piece of work. Those are just beautiful.


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## Dale Parrott (Jul 14, 2013)

First, I must say these look FANTASTIC!  Second is how did you do it?   Maybe I just didn't get enough sleep but the process in not just popping into my head. Looking at the blanks I don't even see a solid color piece that the bottom must have been made from. 
If you wouldn't mind I'd love to learn more about your process for this work of art. Every time I see your bowls I get closer to making the plunge in to my own Ring Master.
Dale


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## kyaggie (Jul 14, 2013)

Beautiful set of bowls!

Mike


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## plantman (Jul 14, 2013)

:bananen_smilies046:Bill; As always, fantastic craftsmanship. I know from the things I had made many years ago about the endless combinations that can be achieved with the ring master. Last week I came across a box in my shop of rings and several items I had made on the Ring Master, that fits on my Shop Smith, for a woodworking show demo 30 years ago. In that time only one ring had broken and even though the rings had not been sanded or finished, they all still fit together perfectly dispite being cut from Pine. I will take a few photos if anyone is interested. There are no bowls, just a large vase made out of Curly Maple and odd shaped containers made out of Pine. Keep that Ring Master turning. Jim S


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## W.Y. (Jul 14, 2013)

plantman said:


> :bananen_smilies046:Bill; As always, fantastic craftsmanship. I know from the things I had made many years ago about the endless combinations that can be achieved with the ring master. Last week I came across a box in my shop of rings and several items I had made on the Ring Master, that fits on my Shop Smith, for a woodworking show demo 30 years ago. In that time only one ring had broken and even though the rings had not been sanded or finished, they all still fit together perfectly dispite being cut from Pine. I will take a few photos if anyone is interested. There are no bowls, just a large vase made out of Curly Maple and odd shaped containers made out of Pine. Keep that Ring Master turning. Jim S



Jim S

Yes, I would surely like to see some of your previous work on your RM . 


Thanks for all the comments.

 I sure was glad I had sharpened my band saw blade the day before I made those bowls  . It sliced through those 8" deep  re-saws with ease and quicker and smoother  than my little 14" underpowered saw has ever cut before .


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## Fishinbo (Jul 15, 2013)

Beautiful bowls! Like the patterns and colors, very appealing to the eyes. Great to stack and collect them. Great job!


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## W.Y. (Jul 15, 2013)

Fishinbo said:


> Beautiful bowls! Like the patterns and colors, very appealing to the eyes. Great to stack and collect them. Great job!



That is one of the nice things I like about a RM. Once the cutters are set at the correct angle  for a certain thickness of wood you can get repeatability of any number of exact diameter and depth of bowls without any further measurements or adjustments.
I often make sets of three or more like this and price them as  each or a price for the set. 
Although these three are identical in size and shape they each have a different pattern which makes them  a unique set.
The three  posted in this thread won't last long at my next craft sale at $40.00 each or $100.00 for the set.


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## sbarton22 (Jul 15, 2013)

I love the planer trick!


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## 76winger (Jul 15, 2013)

Really Striking visuals on those bowls. Great work!


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## W.Y. (Jul 15, 2013)

sbarton22 said:


> I love the planer trick!



It is trickier  than you think unless you have tried it. A thickness planer would be much better but beyond my price range because . Cutting across grain with a planer  requires numerous pass's  of very light  cuts and very sharp knives . Dull knives will only make a mess of it.


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## plantman (Jul 16, 2013)

William O Young said:


> plantman said:
> 
> 
> > :bananen_smilies046:Bill; As always, fantastic craftsmanship. I know from the things I had made many years ago about the endless combinations that can be achieved with the ring master. Last week I came across a box in my shop of rings and several items I had made on the Ring Master, that fits on my Shop Smith, for a woodworking show demo 30 years ago. In that time only one ring had broken and even though the rings had not been sanded or finished, they all still fit together perfectly dispite being cut from Pine. I will take a few photos if anyone is interested. There are no bowls, just a large vase made out of Curly Maple and odd shaped containers made out of Pine. Keep that Ring Master turning. Jim S
> ...


 
Bill; check my thread "30 year old Ring Master projects" for a few photos. They are very plain, but a vast improvement in wood conservation and management for the time. Jim S


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## W.Y. (Jul 16, 2013)

> Bill; check my thread "30 year old Ring Master projects" for a few photos. They are very plain, but a vast improvement in wood conservation and management for the time. Jim S



Thanks a bunch Jim for posting that and sorry I missed it. I have now put a reply  in your thread there.

I have made some vase's and hollow forms on my RM but they do take a little longer and I can hardly keep up to sales on bowls  which are quicker and easier to make .  Wife has claimed  some of them and won't part with them  . .lol . . .. I want to get into making more of them probably this winter after the pre-Christmas sales events.


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## OOPS (Jul 16, 2013)

Whenever I see your name posting photos, I go there first.  I really enjoy looking at the bowls you make.  Each one is beautiful and unique, even though you say the process is repeatable.  Thanks so much for putting these on display for us.


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## plantman (Jul 20, 2013)

Bill; I saw in my thread that you said many of the new lathes will only cut 8" rings. The size is limited by the swing of the lathe of course. I think my Shop Smith has a 16 inch swing, but I never tried anything bigger than a one by twelve board. I was always going to try mouunting my Ring Master to the outboard side of my Shop Smith. Since the cutting blades move side to side and the rings are made by moving the whole machine forward as you reduce the size of your board, I see no reason why there would be any limit on the size board you start with as long as the corners are removed. Two foot, maybe three foot bowels???? A little food for thought !!! Jim S


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## W.Y. (Jul 20, 2013)

plantman said:


> Bill; I saw in my thread that you said many of the new lathes will only cut 8" rings. The size is limited by the swing of the lathe of course. I think my Shop Smith has a 16 inch swing, but I never tried anything bigger than a one by twelve board. I was always going to try mouunting my Ring Master to the outboard side of my Shop Smith. Since the cutting blades move side to side and the rings are made by moving the whole machine forward as you reduce the size of your board, I see no reason why there would be any limit on the size board you start with as long as the corners are removed. Two foot, maybe three foot bowels???? A little food for thought !!! Jim S



The size of the lathe has nothing to do with it. There are  lathe mounted Ringmasters and  stand alone Ringmasters. The stand alone will cut rings to a maximum of 12" diameter. The lathe mounted ones will cut from 8 to 10" rings  depending on the model of RM  that fits a persons particular  make and model of lathe.


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## plantman (Jul 21, 2013)

William O Young said:


> plantman said:
> 
> 
> > Bill; I saw in my thread that you said many of the new lathes will only cut 8" rings. The size is limited by the swing of the lathe of course. I think my Shop Smith has a 16 inch swing, but I never tried anything bigger than a one by twelve board. I was always going to try mouunting my Ring Master to the outboard side of my Shop Smith. Since the cutting blades move side to side and the rings are made by moving the whole machine forward as you reduce the size of your board, I see no reason why there would be any limit on the size board you start with as long as the corners are removed. Two foot, maybe three foot bowels???? A little food for thought !!! Jim S
> ...


 
Bill; I understand what you are saying, but you are thinking of using the Ring Master as it comes out of the box. My idea is to build a sliding carriage on the outboard side of my Shop Smith with no limit on the size of board you are turning other than the floor. You wouldn't even need the lathe, just a VS motor driven shaft supported on both ends to take the extra weight. Could you see what you could get for one of your beautiful segmented bowls or a segmented vase 2 feet across and 3 or 4 feet high?
It could be in the thousands!! I also have an old sears machine called an Edge Crafter that would allow you to put fancy scallops or waves on the top or bottom edges of your pieces. Just a few far out ideas. Jim S


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## johncrane (Jul 21, 2013)

Excellent work William!


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## W.Y. (Jul 21, 2013)

Bill; I understand what you are saying, but you are thinking of using the Ring Master as it comes out of the box. My idea is to build a sliding carriage on the outboard side of my Shop Smith with no limit on the size of board you are turning other than the floor. You wouldn't even need the lathe, just a VS motor driven shaft supported on both ends to take the extra weight. Could you see what you could get for one of your beautiful segmented bowls or a segmented vase 2 feet across and 3 or 4 feet high?
It could be in the thousands!! I also have an old sears machine called an Edge Crafter that would allow you to put fancy scallops or waves on the top or bottom edges of your pieces. Just a few far out ideas. Jim S 



Jim S.
You are thinking of manufacturing a whole new machine attachment . No parts of a RM could be used for it. 
No bigger bowl  than 12" can be turned on a Ringmaster and that has to be a stand alone one . Many have tried  what you are thinking of but none have succeeded to any degree of satisfaction but have wasted a lot of time and money making it. .

Along with that the bowls from 6" to 9 or 10 inch are by far the best sellers and quite hard to  sell 12" ones because they are too big . I have made a few 12" ones but the smaller ones sell 100 to 1 against the big ones. 

Who would ever want a bowl  2 feet across and 3 or4 feet high ?  and who would ever pay thousands for it ? I think you're dreaming :biggrin:
The maximum I can get for bowls in my area is  $60.00 and the greatest majority of them sell for  $25.00 to $40.00.


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## plantman (Jul 21, 2013)

William O Young said:


> Bill; I understand what you are saying, but you are thinking of using the Ring Master as it comes out of the box. My idea is to build a sliding carriage on the outboard side of my Shop Smith with no limit on the size of board you are turning other than the floor. You wouldn't even need the lathe, just a VS motor driven shaft supported on both ends to take the extra weight. Could you see what you could get for one of your beautiful segmented bowls or a segmented vase 2 feet across and 3 or 4 feet high?
> It could be in the thousands!! I also have an old sears machine called an Edge Crafter that would allow you to put fancy scallops or waves on the top or bottom edges of your pieces. Just a few far out ideas. Jim S
> 
> 
> ...


 
Bill;  Let me see if I can address your doubts one at a time. Am I going to design a new machine? No! Only a carrage system that would allow my Ring Master to move in and out allowing me to turn larger rings. Can any parts of my Ring Master be used? Yes! I will use the tool holder and crank system as they are. I may use the angle plate or make a more precise one. I will use my Incra Jig tracks for movement in and out and that will give me .001 or better readings. I won't need the present system that mounts it to my Shop Smith. Only a stand alone unit can cut a 12 inch ring. As you have seen in my thread, I can cut a 12 inch ring on my Shop Smith using my Ring Master. Cost? It wouldn't cost a lot of money to make this setup. I think I could make it for $100 or less. Size? I agree with you that bigger bowls are not going to sell in the craft and flee market markets. Anything above $20 is hard to sell in these markets, and it would take something like your unique bowls to get higher prices. 100/1 ratio. You could sell 100 bowls for $40 each, or you could sell 4 bowls/vases for $1000 each. 4 larger bowls/vases, would actualy take less time and materials to make than 100 smaller ones!! And, you would never have to leave home to sell them. That's the choises we make. Who would want a bowl or vase that big? Interior designers, architects, and home builders. Anyone dealing with upper end housing and clients. If it's something that nobody else has, they will pay for it. It's the same idea as someone being able to sell a pen for $40 while someone else can sell a pen for $1000 or more. It's the market and the clientele that you are dealing with. Of course skill also enters into the equation. You think I am dreaming? If we don't dream and think outside the box, we will never move forward. Jim S


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## W.Y. (Jul 21, 2013)

That's lovely Jim. 
Be sure to post pictures  of the  modifications and of some gigantic bowls when you get around to doing it.
In the meantime I will keep cranking out  fast selling  smaller ones up to 12" diameter  on my machine that was designed for it  . Getting close now to my 200th bowl . Sold well over 100 since I got my RM  one and a half years ago and stocking up again for pre-Christmas craft sales this year . 

A person on my own  site posted a tutorial last week of how he can make a  completely no hole/plug  bottom on RM bowls both inside and out but still within the size limitations of any RM . His limit was 8" diameter because he has a lathe mounted RM .  He was good at machining and also has a metal lathe to machine some of the required parts . With that said, he also mentioned he will be  doing most of his bowls the faster and easier way with the hole because after well over 100 bowl sales I have never had  a complaint about the plugged hole except occasionally a person will inquire  about it and after a simple explanation they pull out their wallet/purse and purchase it. 
He has a very  old  used lathe mounted  RM  he got on ebay  (I think) so didn't mind  tearing into it  and drilling holes and adding machined parts  while  making  the modifications . .
Not many people with money invested in  newer machines would be interested in even trying that. 
I agree , such things can be done if a person has machining and metal working skills .
Will be interesting to see if you ever get around to do what you are proposing . Good luck if you do .


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## jasonbowman (Jul 21, 2013)

Having never used one, please excuse my ignorance.... but why are the lathe attachments of a lesser capacity than the standalone?  I understand if the lathe has a smaller capacity but they seem to  sell an attachment for a 14inch delta on their site...


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## W.Y. (Jul 21, 2013)

jasonbowman said:


> Having never used one, please excuse my ignorance.... but why are the lathe attachments of a lesser capacity than the standalone?  I understand if the lathe has a smaller capacity but they seem to  sell an attachment for a 14inch delta on their site...



I understand what you call your ignorance and it is ignorance at all . You are not the first to ask about that and won't be the last and hope I can clear up your curiosity about it. 

Having never owned a  lathe mounted one I cannot say from experience.
 I am only going by what the ringmaster company says   and videos I have viewed as well what  some of the members in the dedicated Ringmaster Lathe Turning board in my  own site say about it. 
Some have said they can turn up to 10" and some only 8" because on their particular model of lathe mounted ones .There are many lathe mounted models to fit various makes and models of lathes. One size does not fit all  when it comes to lathe mounted ones. I believe  it has something to do with the  thickness  of the mounting  plate  and hardware above and below the  lathe bed that is required in order to mount it whereas the stand alone model is fastened to a 3/4" plywood base with no obstruction .

It has absolutely no  bearing on the size of   lathe being a 12" or 14"  or 16" or 18" . .

With that said I sure wouldn't want a lathe mounted one . I know a few that have got discouraged  and gave up soon because of having to mount it and line it up before ever using it and then their lathe can't be used for other types of turning unless they take it all off again . Even though a bowl can be sanded right on the RM ,  I use my regular lathe for sanding all my bowls and for some other  jigs  I have made for putting a solid no hole  base on the under side  of segmented bowl bottoms. It would drive me nuts forever  taking a lathe mounted one off to use the  lathe for other things and have to put it back on to cut more rings . . 
I much prefer the stand alone model. There are only two models of those and are exactly the same in every respect apart from one having a VS function and both will cut full 12" rings. 

Also , with a lathe mounted one   , ,  if  you decide to upgrade to a different lathe some time in the future  you will have to buy a different model RM to fit the new lathe  if it is a different make and model to your previous one. 

You might notice messages here and there  about ones that have cut a few rings and even shown pictures of non completed projects  when they bought a lathe mounted one years ago but have nothing to show since . It sits somewhere in a corner collecting dust .  I probably would have got that discouraged  as well if I had not bought a stand alone model .


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## plantman (Jul 21, 2013)

William O Young said:


> jasonbowman said:
> 
> 
> > Having never used one, please excuse my ignorance.... but why are the lathe attachments of a lesser capacity than the standalone? I understand if the lathe has a smaller capacity but they seem to sell an attachment for a 14inch delta on their site...
> ...


 
Bll; :wink::wink:  I agree with everything you said 100%. I did get tired of mounting the Ring Master to my Shop Smith. It takes to long to set it up to turn perfect rings. However, once set up, you can cut exact rings all day long. Now that I have several other lathes, I wouldn't mind setting it up every now and than. And your right on, lathe size doesn't matter. The ring size is limited by the Ring Master itself. That would be the reason for the open sliding carrage, and I wouldn't need the mounting base. At the time I was using my machine, I was not into segmenting, so most things I made all looked alike as you coulld see from my photos. I also moved on to scroll sawing and clock making at that time. The machine I am proposing would be a stand alone model I think, simply for the fact I still use my Shop Smith for other things. I am at the age where I would rather put my time into other things than build this item. I only put it out there as an idea that could be done if someone wanted to do it. As you said, it hasn't been done so far with any amount of success. One reason for this may be the fact that there wouldn't be enough demand to produce them. But the person that made one would be heads above every one else in the market. Keep up your excellent work,and show us your projects. The Dreamer !!   Jim  S


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## jasonbowman (Jul 21, 2013)

William O Young said:


> I understand what you call your ignorance and it is ignorance at all . You are not the first to ask about that and won't be the last and hope I can clear up your curiosity about it.
> 
> Having never owned a  lathe mounted one I cannot say from experience.
> I am only going by what the ringmaster company says   and videos I have viewed as well what  some of the members in the dedicated Ringmaster Lathe Turning board in my  own site say about it.
> ...


Thanks for the enlightenment!  Do you reccomend the 723 or 724?


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## W.Y. (Jul 21, 2013)

> I was not into segmenting, so most things I made all looked alike as you coulld see from my photos.



You do not have to  do any segmenting at all to make some fantastic looking bowls, vase 's and hollow forms  etc.  . Just some simple straight board glue ups of different color woods and rotating the rings to make  different patterns works quite well . I only got into trying segmenting  board blanks recently to kick it up a notch (as Emirl Legasy)  would say .

Whatever you do , have fun doing it  . That is what it is all about. It has been fun exchanging ideas with you .


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## W.Y. (Jul 21, 2013)

> Thanks for the enlightenment! Do you reccomend the 723 or 724?
> __________________



I have a 723 . 
The only difference  in the 724 is that it has variable speed .
99% of ones I have encountered with the 724 say they leave it on the same speed at all times so it is a case of  feeling the extra price is warranted or not.


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