# Bushings---beware!!



## ed4copies (May 16, 2011)

I ordered a couple of sets of bushings and a few kits the other day (personal stuff).  Before making any pens, I mounted the bushings on the mandrel and turned on my lathe.  Bushings APPEARED to be turning "out of round".

So, I got out a "broad felt tip" and just touched each rotating bushing, in turn (they were sandwiched together, so they would keep turning).

Rather than write a book here, after a lot of "futzing", I realized what the problem is----the hole in the bushing is larger than my standard mandrel.  Well, I HAVE a couple "B" mandrels, so I tried to put them on it----NOPE!!  Too small a hole.

So, a word to the wise----if you buy new bushings, check them before making pens.

I don't want to "throw stones at" anyone, so I will only say I know for a fact these were made in China.  

So, check your bushings---if you order new ones---BEFORE you make the pen!!


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## Russianwolf (May 16, 2011)

Ed.... What's a Man-drel??????


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## omb76 (May 16, 2011)

I'm glad you posted this because it caused me to put 2+2 together.  I've noticed that when I'm turning with some bushings lately that my blank is spinning true, but the bushing is not.  Example, when I'm sanding the blank feels nice and true, but once I hit the bushings it's just a tiny bit out of round.  Is this the same thing you were experiencing or did the blank spin OOR also?  I'm trying to figure out of the bearing problem I think I'm having with my headstock may also be causing this problem.  Thanks for posting!


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## mredburn (May 16, 2011)

Man-drel is a province in mainland CHina.


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## MesquiteMan (May 16, 2011)

I had that problem with some cigar bushing when I first started 6 or so years ago.  I bought them from a company that gets a lot of praise on here.  I put the bushings on the mandrel and could feel the slop in the center hole.  I contacted the seller and was told my pens were out of round because I did not know what I was doing and that I was applying too much pressure while turning!  I am not the average dummy when it comes to this kind of stuff so I knew darn well it was not due to my technique.  I contacted him again and was told to wrap the mandrel with teflon tape!  He did send me a new set that was no better so when I told him about that, I was told to contact the "manufacturer" with my problem.  I told him I did not buy them from the manufacturer but was told that was my only option.  Bought some bushings from a different manufacturer and they worked perfect.


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## arioux (May 16, 2011)

Had that problem happen few times.  PSI bushing on Berea mandrel, Berea bushing on PSI madrel.  CSUSA bushing Berea mandrel.  Berea on Berea, PSI on PSI, CSUSA on CSUSA, Chinese on Chinese name it.  They are mass produced and the manufacturing tolerance on these is not very high.  Usually keeping the bushing whit the same manufacturer mandrel help but still not a garantee.  The most frequent problem i had was very slightly of center hole but enough to make the blank wobble on the late, resulting in out of round. 

So your right, check your bushing but i don't think that it's just a question of "chisese made", unless they make them for eveybody.


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## ed4copies (May 16, 2011)

I agree Alfred!!

My real point here is to check them before you make a pen.  Out of three sets, I was able to make one very acceptable set.


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## Smitty37 (May 16, 2011)

*Me too*

I bought several 3 bushing sets - some to sell and a set for myself.  1st set I opened to use, one of the bushings would not go on the mandrel.  2nd set one of the bushings would not go on the mandrel.  I found 3 out of 7 sets that wouldn't work, the rest were tight.  Odd thing about that was the bushings that wouldn't work were the same size as standard slimlines so I was just able to replace the bad ones with slimline.


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## OKLAHOMAN (May 16, 2011)

Best way to fix.......................Johnny CNC:wink:


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## mick (May 16, 2011)

OKLAHOMAN said:


> Best way to fix.......................Johnny CNC:wink:


 
What Roy said!


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## bitshird (May 16, 2011)

OKLAHOMAN said:


> Best way to fix.......................Johnny CNC:wink:



YUP Johnny bushings are the only way to turn..


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## DozerMite (May 16, 2011)

OKLAHOMAN said:


> Best way to fix.......................Johnny CNC:wink:


 


I was going to say the same thing but, some people believe in the.........

 what's that rod thing?:tongue:

If you want to keep tolerances, start with quality machined tools.


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## witz1976 (May 16, 2011)

OKLAHOMAN said:


> Best way to fix.......................Johnny CNC:wink:



Exactly!!


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## MesquiteMan (May 16, 2011)

Yeh, I don't even have a mandrel any more.  I threw it out a LONG time ago!


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## OKLAHOMAN (May 16, 2011)

You got to remember Mr. Brown is of the older...much older generation and these new fangled tools just confuse him.


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## thewishman (May 16, 2011)

Mandrels are for Mandrills!


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## skiprat (May 16, 2011)

You can take the best bushings in the world and slip them on to a mandrel and get massively different readings on concentricity each time you mount them.  Exactly how are you 'proving' these bushings?

The *FACT* is, if they *easily* slide over a mandrel shaft then the fit is loose by *several* thousandths. It doesn't matter if the bushings were made in China, Outer Mongolia or even by NASA. However, I have been told that if you get them via *your* preferred supplier, then they will be PERFECT for any old lathe.:biggrin::wink:


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## Smitty37 (May 16, 2011)

*I believe you*



skiprat said:


> You can take the best bushings in the world and slip them on to a mandrel and get massively different readings on concentricity each time you mount them. Exactly how are you 'proving' these bushings?
> 
> The *FACT* is, if they *easily* slide over a mandrel shaft then the fit is loose by *several* thousandths. It doesn't matter if the bushings were made in China, Outer Mongolia or even by NASA. However, I have been told that if you get them via *your* preferred supplier, then they will be PERFECT for any old lathe.:biggrin::wink:


 
I believe you. I TBC most of the time with JohnnyCNC bushings - my pens still don't come out perfect and I'll be d****d if I'm going to put the blame on the bushings, the lathe, the turning tools, the hard concrete floor, the sandpaper or anything else. I don't even blame the fact that I don't have a lot of feeling in the fingers of my left hand. The imperfections (speaking only for myself here) come from the man behind the tools.


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## PenPal (May 16, 2011)

In relation to fit and slip fit and discomfit since i have all of these and other problems with most mass made metal objects. Even making your own on your metal lathe as I do when you buy your drills my rule with no exception is measure twice buy once.

With mandrels they vary as well in finite size. What is a slip fit on one set of bushes can be lock up on another.

Great initial measuring and matching pays huge dividends. Baggie sets that agree in size is the only solution.

The facts are there are many variables there is no one solution at all.

In coming out of the closet with my predudices long held from experiences with wood lathes and metal lathes I know we should adopt careful choices as would a metal worker every time.

Set up time is never wasted. It is a complete nonsense to ever say so and so makes a perfect anything the minute it is matched to an unknown eg the best accurate bush deserves a drill rod standard of mandrel for some consistency. Heck amortise quality mandrels , fitted bushes, etc taking an interest in what you use a lot of and suddenly the gremlins diminish and accuracy becomes the norm, costs are very small over hundreds of pens.

I regret not living nearer sometimes as I have said so many times I vote with my feet, put my money where my mouth is.

Before purchase is a great time to seek out helpful advice it abounds on this site, better not to be a Google authority but someone who knows. Cultivate friendships with Engineering supply firms as well as reputable dealers.

If you turn between a live and a dead centre also use quality.

Have fun I do and I really appreciate the Skippies who have become grafted in giving me confidence to work with Stainless etc and share unselfishly with us those videos recently provided a wealth of top information given thoughtfully and carefully. New London with his careful attention to real designed products and having started to name people let it be known I am in awe of so many of you for your sincerity and honesty.

In preparation check measure twice keep like with like. All my important drills are in baggies with written sizes on the bag and as I select them I measure again.

Kind regards Peter.


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## ed4copies (May 16, 2011)

Thank you for your comments, Peter.

Always a pleasure to read!!
Ed


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## KBs Pensnmore (May 17, 2011)

Even buying from the same supplier does not neccesarily mean quality. I've bought 3 replacement mandrel rods and they all differ. What is the actual size supposed to be? Mine end up at .239-.244  and with the bushes anything upto .256 inside, no wonder I have trouble?


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## ed4copies (May 17, 2011)

KBs Pensnmore said:


> Even buying from the same supplier does not neccesarily mean quality. I've bought 3 replacement mandrel rods and they all differ. What is the actual size supposed to be? Mine end up at .239-.244  and with the bushes anything upto .256 inside, no wonder I have trouble?



None of our "suppliers" make the components or the mandrels.  They have manufacturers.

Over  the years, PSI has had the "thinnest" and the others have been respectively "thicker".  I used to purchase most from WoodCraft, who seemed to be about the "thickest".  Then, I would sand down a couple (I have about 10 mandrels with MT2 ends) and use the sanded ones when a tube or bushings would not slide onto the "thicker" versions.

Although I realize many of the members are advanced pen makers and, in some cases, make their own bushings or contract this out to Johnnie, who does a GREAT job, I am familiar with the ordering pattern of at least one company (since a few are tired of reading about it--I'll let you all GUESS whose records I can access).  That company sells a fair number of bushings.  They do not manufacture these, so there is no assertion here that any one company is any better than another.

My primary purpose for posting this was to alert those who USE bushings to check them before making the first pen.  

Like most of my posts, I HOPE it HELPS those who have not made hundreds of pens.  A kind of "free education", which I had perceived to be one of the purposes of the IAP.


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## w5brw (May 17, 2011)

mredburn said:


> Man-drel is a province in mainland CHina.



It is near USA Taiwan... :biggrin:


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## pssherman (May 18, 2011)

The method I use to "fix" sloppy bushings uses a spring loaded center punch. I make 4 - 6 dimples inside each end of the bushing. Then push it onto the mandrel, which may take some force to do it. This flattens the dimples so that the bushing is now tight on the mandrel. If the bushing is out-of-round, add a few more dimples on the low side and remount. What you end up with are bushings that have no slop (tight) and are concentric with the mandrel.

I hope this proves to be helpful for those using mandrels.


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## joefyffe (May 18, 2011)

Good point!!  :wink:  I've never had that problem with johnnycnc b/c bushings and I know for a fact they are made in the USA.  :biggrin:  





Russianwolf said:


> Ed.... What's a Man-drel??????


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## KBs Pensnmore (May 18, 2011)

What is the Diameter of the mandrel shaft supposed to be? I turn mainly slimlines and  a few cigars, any comments would be appreciated thanks.
Kryn


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## sbell111 (May 18, 2011)

Smitty37 said:


> I bought several 3 bushing sets - some to sell and a set for myself.  1st set I opened to use, one of the bushings would not go on the mandrel.  2nd set one of the bushings would not go on the mandrel.  I found 3 out of 7 sets that wouldn't work, the rest were tight.  Odd thing about that was the bushings that wouldn't work were the same size as standard slimlines so I was just able to replace the bad ones with slimline.


I have also had this problem with Rizheng slimline-size bushings.  Like you, my solution has always been to throw the bad ones in the trash and move on with my life.  Slimline bushings only cost something like 50 cents for a set of three, so it's just not a big deal to me.  I tend to throw in a bunch of bushings and other small items with each order anyhow to maximize my order/shipping charge ratio, so I always have several of these bushings on hand.

I haven't noticed any problems with their non-slimline bushings.


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## Mark (May 18, 2011)

I ran into a similar problem with the Jr Retro bushings. Three sets and the same two bushings in each set would not fit on my mandrel. I tried using a rasp on one set and effectively ruined them. 

I substituted my Majestic Jr bushings and use the calipers when I get it down to being close to final size. Now I use calipers for nearly all the different hardware.


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## Smitty37 (May 18, 2011)

*Source*



sbell111 said:


> Smitty37 said:
> 
> 
> > I bought several 3 bushing sets - some to sell and a set for myself. 1st set I opened to use, one of the bushings would not go on the mandrel. 2nd set one of the bushings would not go on the mandrel. I found 3 out of 7 sets that wouldn't work, the rest were tight. Odd thing about that was the bushings that wouldn't work were the same size as standard slimlines so I was just able to replace the bad ones with slimline.
> ...


 
To be frank I intentionally did not mention the source because I'm not sure - I have had both Rizheng Streamline and PSI Trimline bushings and I don't remember which it was so I wouldn't blame either.  I have really had no complaints from customers on bushings from either source except once where in a Le Roi set of bushings there was one of the two was for a smaller diameter tube.  I suspect a bushing sized for 3/8th tube somehow got into the 27/64th Le Roi bin.


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## Padre (May 18, 2011)

I am also heaping praise about JohnnyCNC's bushings.  He doesn't have them all, so sometimes you still need that metal rod 'thingy,' but he has most of 'em!  TBC, in my humble opinion, is THE way to go.

And thanks Ed for the head's up.  That's what makes this such a great place.


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## sbell111 (May 19, 2011)

Smitty37 said:


> sbell111 said:
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I was sure of my source for these bushings, so I stated as much.  Given that you intend to sell these bushings, my advice to you is to be sure which of your items come from which source.  Not only is this a good accounting practice, but the information is likely important to some of your potential customers.


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## Smitty37 (May 19, 2011)

*Trust me*



sbell111 said:


> Smitty37 said:
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Trust me on this - none of my customers got a bad set of bushings from me.


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## sbell111 (May 19, 2011)

Smitty37 said:


> sbell111 said:
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I never suggested that they did.  My thinking is that you didn't read my post very carefully.


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## Smitty37 (May 19, 2011)

*Yes I did....*



sbell111 said:


> Smitty37 said:
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> > sbell111 said:
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My post was simply to state why I had not mentioned the source - because your post implied it was Rizheng. Most of my bushings at that time came from PSI but I did buy some from Rizheng and it happened that I *have *some from each source (present tense) and I do not *remember* which was at fault. I'm sure I knew when it happened and informed the vendor. Since it was a small number I fixed it myself.  I do not need or want your advice.


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