# Nib Smoothing Correctly



## IPD_Mr

From some of the first threads that I have ever read on here the same recommendation has been used over and over again. Brown paper bag and figure eights. In theory it sounds so good and make a lot of sense until you really getting the mechanics of what it is and what you are doing. I just got finished talking with one of who many people consider one of the top nib meisters in the country about this technique. 

This is the gist of what was said.

Unclean!  Don't do it. The paper is not about 12000 grit.  A brown paper sack for lunch is much different than a paper sack for groceries.  There are different grades of pulp as well as recycled materials and  may or may not do anything except waste your time.

If you're going to smooth a nib, do it right: with controlled abrasives, a repeatable technique, and the intent to make it smooth for everyone.
Oh, and a figure-eight does not necessarily cover every curve that you can do to a nib -- much depends on the way you handle the pen when writing. There is a way to use figure-eights, but it involves a roll and swivel action that must be practiced until it's automatic."

Thank you Mr. Binder for your knowledge and experience.

Assuming that you have your nib properly tuned, meaning that the tines are aligned, your nib is positioned correctly to the feed and your slit is properly adjusted, you can begin to smooth the nib using the correct tools. 12000 grit Micro Mesh buff sticks is where you start. Do this with ink in your pen. The ink acts as a lubricant and helps to pull contaminants away from your nib tip and slit. Don't worry the ink will actually wash off of the Micro Mesh so that you can use it over and over. Start to draw small tight circles on the Micro Mesh rolling the nib as you do this. Don't forget to do the top of the tip as well. Many people do not realize this but your fountain pen should write upside down with the feed facing up. Writing this way gives you a much finer line and comes in useful when writing in ledgers or other confined areas. After you have smoothed the nib tip, there are two other abrasives that can be used to further your efforts. There is a film used for fiber optics. It is used to smooth the ends so that light can pass through the cables unimpeded. These sheets are aluminum oxide and are 1-micron and .03-micron. You will use the same steps as you did on the Micro Mesh. Once you are finished it would be a good idea to floss your nib. This is done with a brass sheet that is .002 thick. Do not try this with anything else. Some people have used razor blades and it can really screw up your feed if you cut into it. The brass is soft enough not to mar or overly spread your tines creating a flow problem.

This is a very condensed version of how to properly smooth your nibs. Working on your nibs CAN further damage them and make any situation you have worse. Start with your kit nibs and practice practice practice. You will be surprised when you get a kit nib to work well, and will be even more pleased with what you can get an upgrade nib to do.

If you find that you are going to attend a pen show that Mr. Binder is doing, see if he is offering his nib smoothing class and sign up early.  It is well worth the time for the education that you receive.  Fountain pens are a real joy when you are no longer intimidated by them.  Today I rarely touch anything other than a fountain pen unless there isn't one handy and that is pretty rare.


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## thewishman

Thanks, Mike!


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## Mack C.

IPD_Mr said:


> From some of the first threads that I have ever read on here the same recommendation has been used over and over again. Brown paper bag and figure eights. In theory it sounds so good and make a lot of sense until you really getting the mechanics of what it is and what you are doing. I just got finished talking with one of who many people consider one of the top nib meisters in the country about this technique.
> 
> This is the gist of what was said.
> 
> Unclean! Don't do it. The paper is not about 12000 grit. A brown paper sack for lunch is much different than a paper sack for groceries. There are different grades of pulp as well as recycled materials and may or may not do anything except waste your time.
> 
> If you're going to smooth a nib, do it right: with controlled abrasives, a repeatable technique, and the intent to make it smooth for everyone.
> Oh, and a figure-eight does not necessarily cover every curve that you can do to a nib -- much depends on the way you handle the pen when writing. There is a way to use figure-eights, but it involves a roll and swivel action that must be practiced until it's automatic."
> 
> Thank you Mr. Binder for your knowledge and experience.
> 
> Assuming that you have your nib properly tuned, meaning that the tines are aligned, your nib is positioned correctly to the feed and your slit is properly adjusted, you can begin to smooth the nib using the correct tools. 12000 grit Micro Mesh buff sticks is where you start. Do this with ink in your pen. The ink acts as a lubricant and helps to pull contaminants away from your nib tip and slit. Don't worry the ink will actually wash off of the Micro Mesh so that you can use it over and over. Start to draw small tight circles on the Micro Mesh rolling the nib as you do this. Don't forget to do the top of the tip as well. Many people do not realize this but your fountain pen should write upside down with the feed facing up. Writing this way gives you a much finer line and comes in useful when writing in ledgers or other confined areas. After you have smoothed the nib tip, there are two other abrasives that can be used to further your efforts. There is a film used for fiber optics. It is used to smooth the ends so that light can pass through the cables unimpeded. These sheets are aluminum oxide and are 1-micron and .03-micron. You will use the same steps as you did on the Micro Mesh. Once you are finished it would be a good idea to floss your nib. This is done with a brass sheet that is .002 thick. Do not try this with anything else. Some people have used razor blades and it can really screw up your feed if you cut into it. The brass is soft enough not to mar or overly spread your tines creating a flow problem.
> 
> This is a very condensed version of how to properly smooth your nibs. Working on your nibs CAN further damage them and make any situation you have worse. Start with your kit nibs and practice practice practice. You will be surprised when you get a kit nib to work well, and will be even more pleased with what you can get an upgrade nib to do.
> 
> If you find that you are going to attend a pen show that Mr. Binder is doing, see if he is offering his nib smoothing class and sign up early. It is well worth the time for the education that you receive. Fountain pens are a real joy when you are no longer intimidated by them. Today I rarely touch anything other than a fountain pen unless there isn't one handy and that is pretty rare.


 
From here to the Library, I hope!


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## Robert111

*A Question*

I recently started carrying a fountain pen, in part just because they're something different--and then of course I do sell them so I should be able to answer at least basic questions. In a week I've gotten used to using it and am starting to feel like a convert. 

Now my question: When I take off the cap and start writing, usually the first stroke is dry--no ink, then it writes just fine until I pause for a couple seconds when it seems to repeat the dry stroke. The nib is positioned correctly in the feed. I am using a converter and De Atrementis African brown ink. I polished the  #6 Heritance nib a little by doing about a dozen figure eights on the cardboard from Samuel Adams 12 pack--maybe should have used Sierra Nevada pale ale?. No, my question is actually, Is this initial dry stroke something to be expected with FPs, or can I fix it?


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## joefyffe

Mack has a good idea, you know!


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## studioso

Video! Or it didn't happen...


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## Grampy122

*Any more info*

Mike, I tried to Google Richard Binder and all the links were broken execpt one that said he is no longer repairing pens. Do you have any more information on him. Thanks


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## Timebandit

Grampy122 said:


> Mike, I tried to Google Richard Binder and all the links were broken execpt one that said he is no longer repairing pens. Do you have any more information on him. Thanks




Here ya go
  Enjoy!

Sorry didnt work


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## OKLAHOMAN

Mike thanks for the clarification on brown paper and figure 8's. I will make it a point to attend one of Richard's classes. Wish he came to The Dallas Pen Show, but a trip to Atlanta might be fun.


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## ve3bax

Grampy122 said:


> Mike, I tried to Google Richard Binder and all the links were broken execpt one that said he is no longer repairing pens. Do you have any more information on him. Thanks



try here: 

RichardsPens.com Fountain Pens by Richard Binder

i too, like the video idea  

this post is rather timely for me... i just finished a nice brown mallee  burl jr gent II fountain (the blank came from IPD_Mr a while back when he was selling off his personal stash, it was a real beauty!) and havent changed the nib yet... good practice before i swap it out... 

--Dave


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## vacca rabite

Robert111 said:


> Now my question: When I take off the cap and start writing, usually the first stroke is dry--no ink, then it writes just fine until I pause for a couple seconds when it seems to repeat the dry stroke.  Is this initial dry stroke something to be expected with FPs, or can I fix it?



You should get ink the instant pen touches paper, and it should be smooth and constant the entire time you are writing.

I had a thread on this yesterday and got lots of great hints on tuning the nib.

The pen I was asking about yesterday started working properly after I just made myself use it all day, so if it is a new nib, there may be a bit of nib conditioning that needs to happen - or it flat out just needs to be tuned or upgraded to a better one.

The stock nib I was ready to replace Thursday night now works well enough that I'll keep it and am happy with it.  It has developed into a great writer.

Zach


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## skiprat

IPD_Mr said:


> ........ Do this with ink in your pen. The ink acts as a lubricant and helps to pull contaminants away from your nib tip and slit. Don't worry the ink will actually wash off of the Micro Mesh .


 
Thanks for that invaluable info Mike. Question; if the purpose of the ink is to simply lube things and it's flow during the process just washes stuff away, then can *water* be used instead? And can a nib be 'tuned' in an inked up demo pen and then transfered to a clean new pen? I've heard that FP afficiado's don't like their new pens to be ink stained AT ALL. ( Fussy buggers !! )


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## IPD_Mr

Steven,
Two of the most prominent nib meisters in the US smooth the nibs on pens that they sell before they are shipped or picked up. This is even the case at a show. Here is how it is done.

Have a working pen body that you can screw the nib and feed unit into. If you sell more than one type of FP then you will need one for every type you sell. Put the nib unit on the working body and use a piston converter. Draw ink up into the pen. You will ensure ink flow in both directions this way. Adjust and smooth the nib. Once finished expel the ink and then clean thoroughly. This mean using a proper flush after you have removed as much ink as you can with tap water. Once the nib unit has been flushed and dried, it is ready to put on the pen that was sold and get it to it's new owner. I have purchased several nibs and pens that I know were inked to test them and to smooth the nibs. You could not tell that is was ever inked. Also a nice little card that accompanied the pen or nib would say something like: This pen was tested and fine tuned for ink flow and smoothness. Waterman's Blue/Black was used for the smoothing and testing. The card would be signed by the person who did the work with the nib that you purchased. What people don't like is to receive a pen with a cartridge in it and ink all over the feed, nib and inside the cap. I think the whole uninked thing came about from someone who was not educated in the ways of fountain pens and figure the best way for us to not create problems is to not ink a pen.

As to the question water instead of ink. Ink will flow differently than ink. You are also testing the feed as well as the wetness of the line the nib lays down. Nib meisters will rate a nib from 1-10 for how wet of a line a nib will lay, with 10 being the wettest. I would say that most of the kit nibs would be on the dry side of the scale before any adjusting. You want the customer to know that the pen is ready to go. You do not want the customer to get a pen and find that it is so out of tune that it will not write.

I really encourage anyone that has done fountain pens to make one for yourself and learn. They come with a kit nib that you can experiment with. I am sure there are people out there that will give you kit nibs that they have replaced if you need more to experiment with. Oh and please do not ask me, I am collecting nibs now so that we can practice grinding to cursive italic and oblique. If we screw up a few dozen learning, so what.

Thank you Steven for asking questions, because that is the way we all learn.


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## soligen

As Mike says, water does not flow the same as Ink. this is becasue of surface tension. What I have done it added just a touch of dish soap to water (like we do when we wet sand) to break the surface tension and "inked" the pen with that for tuning and testing. 

Still not the same as ink, but it seemed to flow fairly well and I was able to tune the nib (at least to my abilities)

Since the section needs to be sealed on a bulb filler, I then let the pen sit for a few days to be sure it is sealed. I'll even let it sit overnight nib-down and make sure the inside of the cap is dry, Overnight nib up then make sure the water starts writing right away.

It doesn't flow like ink, but easier to clean up the pen afterwards, and my clear sac is not yet stained with ink. Using ink may be better for tuning too - I'm no Meister.

Maybe I'm doing somethign wrong, but I find removing and re-installing a nib or feed messes up the tune. Is this common, or am I just not that good yet?


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## skiprat

Thanks for the answers !!
This year I'm going to learn as much as I can about FP's, so be prepared!!:biggrin:


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## 76winger

Thanks for sharing this information Mike, as you know I'm in the early learning stages with FPs and this provides a new technique I'll be trying our real soon!


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## 76winger

Robert111 said:


> I recently started carrying a fountain pen, in part just because they're something different--and then of course I do sell them so I should be able to answer at least basic questions. In a week I've gotten used to using it and am starting to feel like a convert.
> 
> Now my question: When I take off the cap and start writing, usually the first stroke is dry--no ink, then it writes just fine until I pause for a couple seconds when it seems to repeat the dry stroke. The nib is positioned correctly in the feed. I am using a converter and De Atrementis African brown ink. I polished the  #6 Heritance nib a little by doing about a dozen figure eights on the cardboard from Samuel Adams 12 pack--maybe should have used Sierra Nevada pale ale?. No, my question is actually, Is this initial dry stroke something to be expected with FPs, or can I fix it?



I have the same experience quite frequently. I don't know if it's normal or not yet. What I've found as a good work-around for this (until I learn more) is to touch the nib to the paper and don't start moving immediately. Give it a half a second or so to start flowing, then write a little slower than what I would with a cartridge pen. 

I don't know if it's right or I need to work on the nibs more. Will look for replies from the more experienced on this!


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## IPD_Mr

soligen said:


> Maybe I'm doing somethign wrong, but I find removing and re-installing a nib or feed messes up the tune. Is this common, or am I just not that good yet?


 
Dennis, I wouldn't say you are doing anything wrong.  The nib, feed and feed holder should unscrew without much difficulty.  Pintch the nib and feed between your index finger and thumb and turn counter clockwise to unscrew it and clock wise to screw it into the other section.  You should not over tighten it so that causes the nib to twist in the nib holder.  The feed and nib should be pressed pretty tight into the holder so it will not twist once installed.


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## IPD_Mr

OKLAHOMAN said:


> Mike thanks for the clarification on brown paper and figure 8's. I will make it a point to attend one of Richard's classes. Wish he came to The Dallas Pen Show, but a trip to Atlanta might be fun.


 
Roy - Please don't feel like I called you out on this.  This was something that we were taught on here from early on.  Even Lou would recommend this.  I felt that we needed to help educate and clear up some mis-information so that those who sell fountain pens can do so professionally and with more confidence.  If your customers are happy with how their new pen feels and writes chances are that word of mouth advertising will kick in and more sales will come your way.


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## OKLAHOMAN

Mike, as has been said by many "your never to old or to smart to learn". The figure 8 on brown paper bag has been around for years and my guess is that back in the day the quality of the bags were much ....lets say smoother and figure 8's are easy to write and did have some characteristics of your handwriting. I think it was Richard I could be wrong that said it has taken him years to develop his way of smoothing and he is still learning and he will sometimes remember what he did a few years ago and wonder why?
I contacted Barbara Binder today to find out where is Richards next seminar will be held.



IPD_Mr said:


> OKLAHOMAN said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mike thanks for the clarification on brown paper and figure 8's. I will make it a point to attend one of Richard's classes. Wish he came to The Dallas Pen Show, but a trip to Atlanta might be fun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roy - Please don't feel like I called you out on this. This was something that we were taught on here from early on. Even Lou would recommend this. I felt that we needed to help educate and clear up some mis-information so that those who sell fountain pens can do so professionally and with more confidence. If your customers are happy with how their new pen feels and writes chances are that word of mouth advertising will kick in and more sales will come your way.
Click to expand...


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## joefyffe

Mike: Thanks for starting this thread. It has been very informative. Either Richard is a heck of a teacher or you are a heck of a student. I have to believe it is a bit of both. After reading some of this I reached up front and took down my Navigator "KIT"  pen , Dayacom Nib, and tried it. It wrote right off the bat. Tried my demonstrator, Bock nib and it wrote right off the bat. Tried my first kitless, and it wrote right off the bat. Still just a tad wet but acceptable. These three pens had been setting in a mug for probably near a week, nib UP. Ya know! You ain't too bad a teacher either!!! :wink:  I didn't really expect them to be that close.  I was getting ready to tell Mom to cook up another pot of veggie soup, BUT!    Oh Well!  We can do that one evening, anyway!!!  Again, THANKS!  NearMiester!


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## ctubbs

Thank you Mike and to all the great information sharers here.  As Ros stated, "Never too old or too smart to learn."  This has been a very enlightening thread.
Charles


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## ericd

Mr. Binder also offers nib smoothing kits containing the supplies he recommends.


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