# Kitless Pen Adventures Redux



## cool44 (Aug 6, 2013)

Redux. I previewed the previous one and it looked fine. Please delete the previous version of this thread. I couldn't figure out how to edit the original without making it longer. Anyway...

I posted in another area that I was having concentricity issues. Click here for more on that. I  figured out what they were and I said I'd post a small chronicle of my  journey from first kitless pen to finally something worth showing to  everyone. It took me 8 tries so I will post a pic or two of each step  along the way. Here we go...











It's obvious what happened here. It was a functional pen for a short  time. I tried to do too much with my first try. It's all stabilized wood  except for the black parts. I was trying to mimic a Broadwell kit from PSI using wood/ plastic. This, despite what it looks like now, gave  me hope. I realize the file size is too big but I want to get these  posted.
Here is #2...







A perfectly functional pen but slightly off contrentricly. There is also  the nick on the threads as well as the ugly section (I just wanted to  finish it one late night but didn't have any ebonite yet and it was on the previous pen where it matched).
#3...







Not a horrible pen if it wasn't off so horribly (it feels worse than it  looks). And another...




Also a success since I added some aluminum and it doesn't look  that bad.
#4...







Got a catch and boom. Still haven't found the piece that went flying...  Eugene at Mutt Blanks very kindly sent me a replacement and  unfortunately this happened...
#5...







Such a rookie mistake. Again, late night and turned the die just that extra little quarter turn and ugh! For whatever reason I wasn't that mad since I figured out how to turn the alumilite without it exploding on me. 
#6...







I actually carry this pen around. I love the colors and the #5 Meister  is just great. It is off concentricly (if that's a word... 2nd time I've  used it) a little but when writing it isn't an issue. I was happy with  the way the bronze accent turned out also. Here's another...







The section is ebonite that isn't completely finished. I went back and  tried to even things out and only made it worse and I haven't finished  it yet.
#7...







Had to try one with a clip. It's extra work but it worked out well. The  only issue is the body to cap threads are very tight. It will bottom out  but it takes a little effort. #5 Meister nib with m12x.8x3 cap to body  threads and m10x1.25 section to body threads. Another pic...







The hole in the cap is for an accent piece that I haven't decided on yet  (which means it'll probably never happen... my A.D.D.). There is a hole  at the end of the body waiting for a piece as well.
#8...
Finally what you've all been waiting for... 







Finally concentric. Here's another...







It's got a #6 Med. Meister nib and is cartridge/ converter feed. The cap  to body threads are m14x.75 and the section to body threads are m10x1.
Capped length... 5 1/2"
Uncapped...5"
Posted... 7"

Again sorry for the big pics and the large post. I am looking for comments and criticisms please. Come on let me have it.

dave


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## Harley2001 (Aug 6, 2013)

Very nice looking pens I really like the one you carry .


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## cool44 (Aug 6, 2013)

Harley2001 said:


> Very nice looking pens I really like the one you carry .



Thanks. 

Why does the post show two pics per image? I only posted one. 

dave


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## anthonyd (Aug 6, 2013)

Love the last one.

Tony


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## thewishman (Aug 6, 2013)

Looks like you are making progress. Love the Lava Lamps!


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## SteveJ (Aug 6, 2013)

Man, I was thinking of doing a kitless for my next pen, but this is giving me second thoughts...


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## plantman (Aug 6, 2013)

You could be the poster child for the saying " If at first you don't suceed, try, try again " Your learning curve reached the top with that last one!!!! Very nice craftsmanship.  Jim  S


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## cool44 (Aug 6, 2013)

SMJ1957 said:


> Man, I was thinking of doing a kitless for my next pen, but this is giving me second thoughts...



That's the opposite of what I was trying to do. I am trying to show that it isn't that hard. Just take it slow and easy and don't try to do 10 different things with each try. My first one was a success as far as I made it from scratch and it worked. Yes it was ugly but it was my ugly. Also my guess is your headstock and tailstock line up better than mine does. 

dave


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## hard hat (Aug 7, 2013)

good work! seeing failures along the way is a great teaching and learning tool. keep up the good work


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## ShallowJam (Aug 7, 2013)

As someone about to take the plunge myself, whats your take on tools? What size taps/dies/bits do you find useful? What turning tools do you find yourself frequenting?

These pens look really nice. I'm impressed. The accent ring is really nice on that one pen, how do you do that?


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## cool44 (Aug 7, 2013)

ShallowJam said:


> As someone about to take the plunge myself, whats your take on tools? What size taps/dies/bits do you find useful? What turning tools do you find yourself frequenting?
> 
> These pens look really nice. I'm impressed. The accent ring is really nice on that one pen, how do you do that?



I am by no means an expert but I can certainly tell you my opinion based on what I have experienced above. So...  let me start with the obligatory FWIW, IMHO and "just my $0.02."  With that out of the way...

Tools: I normally use old Craftsman roughing gouges on wood. By today's standards they'd be considered fingernail gouges or even spindle gouges. These SUCK on plastics. I switched to using carbide tools using the radius and straight tools first. They worked okay but when the blank is still square it freaks me out each time the tools knocks an edge off. It works but I was uncomfortable. I switched to the round carbide and everything was going well until I got a catch and the blank exploded. I had a modern 1" roughing gouge that I never used because I couldn't figure out how to sharpen it. I was forced to figure out how to sharpen it and now I wouldn't use anything else. It works great. PM me for a good source of carbide tools if you don't have them yet. 

Taps/dies: I originally took the leap and spent the $150 and bought the m12x.8 triple start tap/ die set from Silverpenparts.com for the cap to body threads. I then bought an m10x1.25 from a local tool supply for the section. The triple start is great if you're like me and want the blank to line up as if it wasn't cut in two pieces. This lasted until I wanted to use the #6 nibs I bought. I realized that although I could make the threads 12mm, everything had to be perfect for the larger nib to fit. Also it didn't look right to have a "thin" pen with the larger nib. I decided that spending another $150 on the m14x.8 triple was just a leap I didn't want to make... yet. Instead I got the m14x.75 single start from victornet.com as well as the m10x1 from Indy-Pen-Dance.com. I will eventually get the m14 x.8 triple start but just not yet. I need to see if people like my stuff enough to pay for it. As far as the nibs go, I decided to stick with Meister/ JoWo to start. I got the m6.5x.5 and the m7.4x.5 from Silverpenparts.com. You could get the Bock taps from Indy-pen-dance.com if you so prefer. I plan on doing this some day.  If I could go back I would not buy the triple starts to begin with. I would buy the nib taps from silverpenparts.com and then get the m12 and m14 single starts from victornet.com. This will get you started and won't break the bank. FYI the triple starts are REALLY nice. Also they take much less effort to screw/ unscrew the caps onto/off of the bodies. If you can afford them, get them. 

Procedure: I start out using a 4-jaw chuck to do the drilling/ tapping/ threading. I then switch to jigs I made from 3/4" ebonite with the appropriate threads to turn down and finish. For the body I use the outside threads and support the end with the tailstock. For the cap you don't have a choice but I also support it with the tailstock. 

Accent rings: The aluminum rings were simply glued with CA glue and drilled and turned down. This worked but is not a great idea. The bronze ring on the pen I carry around was created by drilling a hole in the metal and turning a shoulder on the plastic to fit the hole. I glued it with CA and then turned it to size. This worked much better. 

Let me reiterate that I am only speaking based on MY experience and so far I only have TWO passable pens. Hopefully this helps. 

As usual I'm open to C&C from anyone that knows better. 

dave


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## Hexhead (Aug 8, 2013)

failures are good for the soul helps you keep things in prospective, Thanks Great pens!!


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## ShallowJam (Aug 8, 2013)

Thanks for the reply, very helpful. 

I could spend the extra on the triple starts, but I'm just a little hesitant. $200+ is a lot for a couple taps/dies. How big is the difference in terms of number of times the cap needs to spin to be removed? 

I've been wondering if I should get the 14 x .75 tap/die but I noticed it requires a 1.5" die holder which means another holder just for one die. Are there adjustable holders? or do you just have two? also, do you use a spring loaded tap holder? because I assume then I'd need two of those as well...


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## cool44 (Aug 8, 2013)

ShallowJam said:


> Thanks for the reply, very helpful.
> 
> I could spend the extra on the triple starts, but I'm just a little hesitant. $200+ is a lot for a couple taps/dies. How big is the difference in terms of number of times the cap needs to spin to be removed?
> 
> I've been wondering if I should get the 14 x .75 tap/die but I noticed it requires a 1.5" die holder which means another holder just for one die. Are there adjustable holders? or do you just have two? also, do you use a spring loaded tap holder? because I assume then I'd need two of those as well...



I'm just guessing but there is about half the threads on the last pen versus the one I carry and it takes double the revolutions to tighten it up. There is a big difference. 

There is a guy on here named BigShed that makes the 1 1/2" die holder but right now he's traveling the Outback in Australia and won't be back till September. In the mean time, I use a technique I figured out when I was using hex dies (which I now know are not for new threads... but they're really cheap).   I just put the die in some vise grips and put it onto the tenon I want to thread. Then I bring my regular die holder up to it so that it stays perpendicular as the threads begin to cut. Then I keep pressure on the die to make sure they continue straight and the vise grips stop on the bed of the lathe so I never have to hold them unless I am backing the die out to clear the swarf (not sure if that's what it's called?). Anyway, it works until I can get my hands on the correct tool. 

As far as tap holders go, I just put the taps into my tailstock and let it ride on the bed. I've never even heard of spring loaded tap holders. I'll have to check that out. 

dave


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## JayLo (Aug 8, 2013)

Good job! The last one looks perfect. I'm inspired.


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## mikeschn (Oct 24, 2016)

Sorry to bring up an old thread, but does anyone know what blank is used for that last pen? It's really nice!!!

Mike...


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## magpens (Oct 24, 2016)

Don't know ... but if you look through the Lava Explosion blanks listed on ExoticBlanks.com you stand a good chance of finding it or something very similar. . Also look at the Lava Lamp listings.

I am quite sure the blank was made by ElMostro ( a.k.a. Eugene Soto). . He is a member here and you could ask him.


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## ElMostro (Nov 2, 2016)

mikeschn said:


> Sorry to bring up an old thread, but does anyone know what blank is used for that last pen? It's really nice!!!
> 
> Mike...



That blank is Lava Lamp #85

Eugene.


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## mikeschn (Nov 2, 2016)

Cool! Thanks!

Mike...



ElMostro said:


> That blank is Lava Lamp #85
> 
> Eugene.


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