# Ca finish over friction polish



## kennspens (Feb 11, 2010)

Want to try and use ca finish over friction polish, has anyone else tried this?


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## rsmith (Feb 11, 2010)

My experience has been the CA doesn't really stick well to the finish and the oil in the finish clouds the CA.  It may work if the finish was allowed to dry for a period of time, but I just haven't had that kind of patience.  I HAVE used other finishes, such as diamond-flecto and other bar-top hard lacquer type coatings on top with some success, but no luck with the CA, at least for me...


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## grub32 (Feb 11, 2010)

I am not an expert on this topic but Friction polishes have Carnuba wax in them right?? I think so, we use was to keep CA off our bushings? It would therefore make sense that it wouldnt make a strong bond then. Am I on the right track?

Grub


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## wb7whi (Feb 11, 2010)

Actually, I have considered this for oily woods like cocobollo but ended up using shallack to seal the wood before using the ca. I prefer the shallack over DNA as with dna I suspect that the wood oils would eventually work back to the surface.

I do not use BLO


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## its_virgil (Feb 11, 2010)

I'm sure they have but I must ask why? Unless you have a really good reason (and I can't think of one) I will say use one or the other, but not one over the other. Someone once used friction polish over CA. I ask him why and he answered, "so when the friction polish wears off ...."   I can't remember what his reason was. I couldn't think of one either. Or, go ahead and give it a try and tell us how it worked. Maybe you are close to that magic finish we have all been looking for.  Happy finishing.
Do a good turn daily!
Don




kennspens said:


> Want to try and use ca finish over friction polish, has anyone else tried this?


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## Mac (Feb 11, 2010)

Yes ,I have, after going to see Georges demo on CA finish. I came home and took all my upscale pens apart put them back on the lathe and sanded my friction polish off all them and replaced it with CA.


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## its_virgil (Feb 11, 2010)

I clean off oily woods with accelerator....from a bottle not from an aerosol can. Works great and I've had no problems. Nope, it doesen't case the CA to instantly cure....it evaporates very quickly with no ill effects.
Do a good turn daily!
Don



wb7whi said:


> Actually, I have considered this for oily woods like cocobollo but ended up using shallack to seal the wood before using the ca. I prefer the shallack over DNA as with dna I suspect that the wood oils would eventually work back to the surface.
> 
> I do not use BLO


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## rsmith (Feb 12, 2010)

Ok, science lesson here...the main reason that CA doesn't work well over a FF, is the properties of both the glue and the finish.  Most Friction polishes, are just that. Polishes, not finishes.  They are usually a shellac-based liquid, that has been impregnated with multiple types of oils, mainly to serve as a lubricant, but also to make the curing time of the shellac a little more predictable.  Keep the oils part in mind now...CA glue, is just that, a glue, again not a finish.  It works great as a finish, and will give a shine for years to come, which is why we all use it.  BUT, since it is a glue, there are certain conditions necessary for the glue to set correctly.  CA bonds differently than most glues, in that it cures in the presence of water vapor (again, water, not oil)  Since the normal affect of diluting a liquid with any type of water type substance is that it thins and looses potency, the CA compensates for this by generating internal heat, thus effectively evaporating the same vapor that it used to cure in the first place.  Still with me?  Ok.  When a layer of CA is placed over the friction finish, the heat generated by the curing actually work to separate the oil-based lubricants of the original finish, thus creating a slight amount of "moisture" (remember oils, not water vapor) and giving a cloudy appearance under the CA, much the came way as trying to put a finish on an oily piece of wood like olivewood or cocobolo with no treatment.  The cloudiness if a by-product formed by the combination of oil and CA gas.  This is why it is used in fingerprint analysis.  The fumes bond with skin oils to create a white surface on the ridges.
But why, you might ask, if oils cloud the finish, do most people combine BLO with their CA finish with great results?  Boiled Linseed oil, along with a few other oils (tung, etc...) have a unique property that allows the oil to effectively "cure" or harden when exposed to a heat source.  Therefore, when used in conjunction with CA, it provided a lubricant to allow the glue to be spread more evenly and predictably, but as the CA generated heat in the curing process, this heat also cures or "polymerizes" the BLO.  Most oils in a friction polish are not as heat reactive, thus by "melting" the original friction finish you will be leaving "moisture" under the hard glue, which in turn creates that thermogenic white by-product, and CA+liquid oil=crap finish.
In summary, probably not worth the hassle, but hey, if you can make it happen, thats all that counts. 
Now you can't go to bed saying you didn't learn something new today :biggrin:


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## jttheclockman (Feb 12, 2010)

I have no idea what Rob said but I guess it must be right.

My thoughts are you treat CA as you would any top coat finish such as lacquers or polys. You do not put them on top of a wax or polish ever. The adhesion properties are not as good as if you applied them on top of a wood product that has been dried and cured. There is no layer of wax between the top coat. To me you are wasting time and effort by polishing before doing the CA. If you want a shine before you apply the CA just buff with a soft paper towel you will get the same shine provididing you sanded properly. That is my 2¢

One other thing and I see this alot here. People wanting to take off a finish and they start sanding. You want to take a finish off have some acetone around and wipe the finish with acetone and there is no need to sand and next thing you know it you are changing the dimensions on you perfectly turned blank.


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## knowltoh (Feb 12, 2010)

I finish with CA, lightly sand with 600-1000 grit, them apply a friction polish.  Not sure why I do it that way, but I like the finish that is produced.  It has been a trial and error process for me.


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## ssajn (Feb 12, 2010)

I've used wipe on poly over friction coat on ebony and it worked great. Going on a year and it still looks like new.


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## Pioneerpens (Feb 12, 2010)

I also usually put a friction polish on after i've used ca. It just seems to shine up the finish a little better for me.  Of course i'm new to using the ca and still experimenting to get the hang of it too.


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## Rchan63 (Feb 12, 2010)

I did a couple of pens with ca over friction polish http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=57934 I hope I didn't screw it up.


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