# Pens plus is a different friction finish



## Dan Masshardt

This picture illustrates one difference between pens plus on the left and other common friction polishes.   

The little one in the middle is mylands and the right is hut crystal coat.


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## dudstuen

Dan, Can you explain difference, I have never used pen plus finish. May be interested in trying it.Where to buy it? Thanks


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## Dan Masshardt

dudstuen said:


> Dan, Can you explain difference, I have never used pen plus finish. May be interested in trying it.Where to buy it? Thanks



One different that I was trying to illustrate is that pens plus doesn't separate.    Look closely at the other two.


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## walshjp17

You can buy Pens Plus from the inventor - Mike Meredith at Doctor's Woodshop Pens Plus or from Peachtree Woodworking Supplies Ron Brown's Best Walnut Oil Finishes (Ron Brown licenses it from Mike).


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## Dan Masshardt

I got mine from peachtree.


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## Wildman

Could you save a few bucks buying here?

Natural wood finish 16 oz. oil


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## Dan Masshardt

Wildman said:


> Could you save a few bucks buying here?  Natural wood finish 16 oz. oil



That's just walnut oil I believe   I have a bottle of mahoneys - and use it often for certain projects  

It's nowhere near the same thing  though   

Pens plus is walnut oil, shellac and wax, which is common for friction polishes   What is different is that doctors has found a way to get the wax to say in solution.

It hasn't been long enough prob for any long term results but it does seem based on experiences that pens plus has much better durability than the rest - mylands etc


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## mhbeauford

Have you tried Shellawax? Finishes well with a high polish and is pretty tough after it has cured for a few days. I use it for lower end pens (CA for higher end pens) and various small decorative
items, bottle stoppers, etc. An emulsion of carnauba wax and shellac in alcohol and mineral spirits, as I understand.


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## Dan Masshardt

mhbeauford said:


> Have you tried Shellawax? Finishes well with a high polish and is pretty tough after it has cured for a few days. I use it for lower end pens (CA for higher end pens) and various small decorative items, bottle stoppers, etc. An emulsion of carnauba wax and shellac in alcohol and mineral spirits, as I understand.



Do you use the liquid or the cream?  I like it petter than some of the others but font comment on durability for heavy use items.


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## Jim Burr

But why use it? It is not a quality pen finish by any stretch of the imagination. It does work on un-touched items...HF's, decorative platters, maybe a candle stick or two, but pens?? The stuff has been proven a bad finish over and over again.


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## Dan Masshardt

Jim Burr said:


> But why use it? It is not a quality pen finish by any stretch of the imagination. It does work on un-touched items...HF's, decorative platters, maybe a candle stick or two, but pens?? The stuff has been proven a bad finish over and over again.


  Are you referring to shellawax, pens plus or both?

Personally I don't have any shellawax anymore but used a little bottle for candle bases etc.  

I'm not convinced your statement us true if applied to pens plus.  Are you aware of negative wear with that product specifically?


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## Jim Burr

I am convinced because it's been tried, discussed and re-discussed more than "What is the best kit to use" 
Look at the ingredients...wax, and shellac...neither of which are proven, high use finishes. If it's a display pen...as was discussed just a week or two ago, Mylands style/type finish would work. Take the challenge...make two pens, same every thing...finish one in a wax based finish and the other in WOP or CA...use and abuse them equally for a month and see what wears better. Better to try and have proof than ask and have someone's opinion.


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## Dan Masshardt

Jim Burr said:


> I am convinced because it's been tried, discussed and re-discussed more than "What is the best kit to use" Look at the ingredients...wax, and shellac...neither of which are proven, high use finishes. If it's a display pen...as was discussed just a week or two ago, Mylands style/type finish would work. Take the challenge...make two pens, same every thing...finish one in a wax based finish and the other in WOP or CA...use and abuse them equally for a month and see what wears better. Better to try and have proof than ask and have someone's opinion.



Probably would be wise to try such an experiencent.  

Short of extensive experiments myself, there are other folks here who I respect their expertise and craftsmanship who say that pens plus is proving to be durable.  

What I'm wondering in this thread is if the process that is used to make pens plus different could be a difference maker. 

Have you or are you aware of others who have used doctors woodshop pens plus specifically and found it to not be durable?

That's the question. I don't accept you dismissing it out of hand because of the ingredients   And I mean that respectfully. 

It may be lacking, but that remains yet to be seen. 

Personally, I like CA.  But if there is an alternate finish that is durable and simple, I am interested in having it available.


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## Jim Burr

Have you or are you aware of others who have used doctors woodshop pens plus specifically and found it to not be durable? I seem to remember a few post about that finish...I have never used it

That's the question. I don't accept you dismissing it out of hand because of the ingredients   And I mean that respectfully. I've used wax/shellac based finishes...the questions is have you tried them -vs- others?

It may be lacking, but that remains yet to be seen. 

Personally, I like CA.  But if there is an alternate finish that is durable and simple, I am interested in having it available.[/quote] Of late, using the search function...Les Elm has a great tutorial on WOP that has many people using it...have you tried it?


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## Dan Masshardt

I'm in an ongoing casual look at alternates while keep ca as the finish I use when it matters. 

Wop should be on that list as les's pens look great.  

In another realm of finishes, I have craft cost and wtf that are arill in ongoing experimentation.  

I want to try dipping with craft coat as well.  

But fundamentally I agree with you about most of the friction polishes such as shellawax, mylands and hut crystal coat not being adequately durable for regular handling.


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## Jim Burr

Like you...WTF is kind of a mystery...I have several more iterations to work through...but the cost is a bit rough. Let's keep notes going and make sure we do "clinical" type assessments. Many good finish things to try...the one's that haven't had a good try deserve a good trial and review.


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## NittanyLion

I wasn't a believer in the durability of any friction polish until I started using my own recipe of shellac, walnut oil, and caranuba.  I cook it after mixing and it now does not seperate.

I've been carrying a Venetian from Roy with this finish every day for two months.  My job puts this pen to the test....in and out of my pocket probably 50 times a day.  I swear the finish is as nice today as it was two months ago.

The only difference is the level of shine is less than CA and it does not build like CA.  There was a time when I would never use any other finish than CA.  Now I rarely use it.


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## Smitty37

Jim Burr said:


> But why use it? It is not a quality pen finish by any stretch of the imagination. It does work on un-touched items...HF's, decorative platters, maybe a candle stick or two, but pens?? The stuff has been proven a bad finish over and over again.


 That depends somewhat on what strikes you as a "bad" finish doesn't it? 

My personal opinion is biased because I happen to like a natural look on wood - I am not overly fond of super high sheen on wood pens and if the finish wears some - so what?  I like the look of the wood.

So for what I like, shellawax and mylands are fine, they produce enough shine to suit my taste and last plenty long enough.  I still like the look when the shine is gone.  

I might well try the one mentioned in the OP.


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## BSea

I personally like the pens plus finish for hard wood. I don't think it looks as good on softer wood. I did a desert iron wood pen with pens plus about 7 or 8 months ago, and I think it looks as good as the day I finished it. It doesn't get a lot of use, but it does get some.

But my experience with maple wasn't as good. The finish became dull after a short time. If I use any spalted wood, I'll use CA till I can find an alternative. I do plan on trying the dipped method someday.


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## OOPS

Pens Plus and the other Doctor's products are friction polishes, but there is something substantially different about the chemical breakdown of the Doctor's products.  In this case, the inventor is a doctor of chemistry who spent years working on the microcrystaline structure of the product.  For those who have done a fair amount of friction polishing, you will notice an immediate difference in the way Pens Plus performs while still applying it to the pen.  The inventor can tell you all about why this is so, but I only absorbed some of the science behind it.  It goes on easily and evenly-very nice to work with.

As to longevity of the finish, the inventor claimed that due to the structure of the crystals in the product, they adhere to the wood better and have superior wear resistance.  In his demonstration booth, he had a basket full of bottle stoppers, all of which were finished with Pens Plus.  He told me that he uses the same basket full at each demonstration he does, where the stoppers are picked up and examined over and over, rubbed, etc.  To keep the shine, he sometimes uses a fine cloth over the stoppers.  

So how did they look?  They were beautiful!  What I noticed immediately about the finish is that there was a mild shine, but not intense enough to cause glare.  This allowed you to see the grain much more clearly and as a result, the beauty of the wood dominated.  I have not tried Pens Plus yet, but other members of the local pen turning club are giving it a try.  I know several bowl turners who use the product and endorse it heartily.  

I hope this helps.


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## NittanyLion

BSea said:


> I personally like the pens plus finish for hard wood. I don't think it looks as good on softer wood. I did a desert iron wood pen with pens plus about 7 or 8 months ago, and I think it looks as good as the day I finished it. It doesn't get a lot of use, but it does get some.
> 
> But my experience with maple wasn't as good. The finish became dull after a short time. If I use any spalted wood, I'll use CA till I can find an alternative. I do plan on trying the dipped method someday.



I agree with Bob, and I think this is because it is non-building.  When I apply it to a stabilized blank, I use the 4000 micro mesh pad.  This has helped set the finish in the blank.  On a non-stabilized or soft blank, it is difficult to get great results....at least for me.


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## Smitty37

Dan Masshardt said:


> dudstuen said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dan, Can you explain difference, I have never used pen plus finish. May be interested in trying it.Where to buy it? Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One different that I was trying to illustrate is that pens plus doesn't separate. Look closely at the other two.
Click to expand...

 And yet the bottle is still marked "Shake Well".  That implies to me that the "non-separating" is more apparant then real.


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## Wildman

Dan, if not mistaken directions for all three products in your comparison require you to shake not stir before use!  Just because do not see separation with Pen Plus, what does it mean.  

Except for product contents advertisement hype sounds the same.   If not mistaken Crystal coat might be least expensive product.  

I tried posting a picture of over ten year old cherry desk pen finished with Crystal Coat finish.  Not sure why my EOS program not working.   Have two more pens finished same way been living my vehicles glove boxes (car & truck) for same amount of time.  

 Only point would like to emphasize is expect sheen fade back on pens finished with shellac/oil/wax mixtures.  All three pens talking about still look good.  If want a low or no VOC’s and natural look of wood do not worry about sheen.


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## Wildman

If not for additives put in walnut salad oil you buy at the grocery store to keep it from stinking would say use that with hard auto wax over that.  Quality of grocery,health food, & art supply store walnut oil varies, but can improve it by heating the stuff!


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## sbwertz

I've been using this at the center for the blind because it is a finish my blind turners can easily put on themselves.  Plus it doesn't generate the toxic fumes.  Down there I can't put respirators on all my turners.  For the soft woods, I have had great success with putting a few coats of CA/BLO using Young's method.  It is also easy for my blind turners to apply, and I use a fan to blow away the fumes.  Then I  put the pens plus on top of the CA/BLO to give a high luster.  So far it has been very successful.


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## Dan Masshardt

sbwertz said:


> I've been using this at the center for the blind because it is a finish my blind turners can easily put on themselves.  Plus it doesn't generate the toxic fumes.  Down there I can't put respirators on all my turners.  For the soft woods, I have had great success with putting a few coats of CA/BLO using Young's method.  It is also easy for my blind turners to apply, and I use a fan to blow away the fumes.  Then I  put the pens plus on top of the CA/BLO to give a high luster.  So far it has been very successful.



I've done pens plus over a coat or two of CA as well.  Pens plus does best over a sold, sealed base IMO.  Ca does that without needing to go through the building and polishing process.


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## Dan Masshardt

Since, it's been so long since I've given an update on this, I'll share two things about my own practice.

1. I use CA the vast majority of the time.  I'm so used to it now that there is no time difference between Pens plus and CA.  Pens plus is cheaper cost for the finish though.

2. I still think Pens Plus is one of the best alternatives for those who don't want to use CA.   It seems to consistently be the best of the friction finishes.  And there are a lot more good reports on it since this thread started.  

3. If you are going to use PP, it's important that you get a good system set up that works for you.  Make sure you heat that finish up.


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## pshrynk

Oops.  Didn't look at the post I was quoting carefully enough.  Won't get a reply.


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