# Sanding Padauk and Purpleheart... Problems



## mbellek (Aug 7, 2007)

Believe it or not my favorite wood to turn is actually poplar. It is not very impressive, but it was the wood I got started on and I love how soft and smooth it is when its all turned and sanded...

For some reason when I turn Purpleheart or Padauk, I can't get that same smoothness/softness. No matter what I do, how long I sand, how many different grits I use, I still get big grains showing up in my wood.

Yet I see things turned by others with these two woods that don't look like that. 

I usually use the following sandpapers, in this order:

100
120
not sure of the grit but it says "extra fine flint" on back
216
240
300
400

What am I not doing here? Or is the wood just like that, and I'm thinking the pics I've seen look like something else?

Also, when something says "sand to a 1200 grit... Do they actually MAKE 1200 grit paper?? Wouldn't that just feel like regular paper?! Or is that supposed to be the sum of all the papers you use?


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## wdcav1952 (Aug 7, 2007)

Melanie,

Actually what you meant was 12,000 grit.  This is referring to micro mesh abrasives.

http://www.penturners.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=22645  Follow this link to get an idea of how micro mesh compares to sandpaper.

Using a sealer will help to fill grain and allow a smoother finish.  Lots of us use thin CA as a sealer.  Once all the pores in the wood are filled and the CA is sanded back to the wood surface, you should have purpleheart and any other wood with a smooth, ready to finish surface.

I cannot recommend enough that you explore the library at the home page of the site.  All of the finishing tips apply to your hair sticks just like they apply to pens.

FWIW,


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## mbellek (Aug 7, 2007)

Thanks Cav...

I have tried CA before, and it makes such a mess... I am not sure what I do wrong with that either. But it is hard to keep trying with CA... Superglue is not something that's fun to "experiment" with!! []


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## mikegibs (Aug 7, 2007)

If you really don't like the CA - yes, it stinks and burns the eyes if you get a big wiff - try creating a slurry by applying oil finish like tung or BLO then sand while "wet".  The sluggy sawdust will help to fill holes.  I use a fine grit, usually 320 or 400.  This is called wet sanding.  When the oil dries it will also help to seal the wood.  Resand the dry blank.  Then apply your finish.  

I'm very new at using the CA myself.  It usually requires me to put on 3 or more coats and sand like crazy to get back to smooth...  But, as they say, it gets better with practice and a fan (stand up wind)...

Mike G.


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## LostintheWoods (Aug 7, 2007)

Just for the record, yes, 1200 grit sandpaper (wet or dry) is available, Cav. I agree that Melanie had probably seen reference to 12,000 grade MM, but just wanted to let you know that 1200 grit sandpaper can be found at better automotive paint supply dealers.


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## mbellek (Aug 7, 2007)

When I tried CA, it just flew everywhere! My fingers were stuck together, I had blobs of it on my shirt, on my eyewear, all over the bottle itself... And the more I tried to fill in every little cranny, the worse it got!! 

But apparently it seems to be the best? A lot of people like it.


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## jtate (Aug 7, 2007)

Less is more with CA.  Just a tiny, tiny bit.  let it cure, then sand again.  Sounds like you applied too much.

Watch Russ Fairfield's videos. Very helpful.


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## GBusardo (Aug 8, 2007)

Hi,  Poplar is a very fine grained wood, as you know. The others you mentioned is more open grained. Just as the others said, filling the grain is the key. I think possibly your problems with CA might be that the lathe is turning too fast as you apply it to the blank. This causes a mess, don't ask how I know. Start your lathe at it's slowest speed. Wearing a throw away glove, place your sandpaper, I use 400 grit for this, under the blank, turn on the lathe.  As you put a few drops of glue on the lathe, move the sandpaper back and forth.  The plus here is that CA dries real fast, so fast, it might smoke. After the glue dries, you can try and sand or put on more coats.  This will fill the pores with glue and the wood from the sanding. Once you are done sand and finish. i would suggest that if you do not want to buy the higher grades of sand paper or micro mesh, buy a jar of EEE.  Apply some to your blank after sanding to at least 400 and wipe off toward the bushings (with the lathe running) with a clean soft paper towel. You will be amazed how smooth and shiney the wood will be.  EEE sands to about 3600 grit in my estimation.   
Good luck! []


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## wdcav1952 (Aug 8, 2007)

> _Originally posted by LostintheWoods_
> <br />Just for the record, yes, 1200 grit sandpaper (wet or dry) is available, Cav. I agree that Melanie had probably seen reference to 12,000 grade MM, but just wanted to let you know that 1200 grit sandpaper can be found at better automotive paint supply dealers.



Shannon,

Yes, of course you are right.  Automotive sandpaper goes to 2000 grit or higher.

Melanie, 

I was not referring to using CA as a finish.  Apply a very fine line of thin CA to the wood and let it soak in and dry.  Once the entire hair stick is soaked in CA, sand the hair stick until smooth.  Once you get the wood smooth and ready to finish, use the finish of your choice.  If I remember Russ Fairfield's remark correctly, the CA is "in the wood, not on the wood."


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## cdcarter (Aug 8, 2007)

Funny, but padauk is one of the easiest to work with for me. I haven't used it much lately because I've been digging the woods with more grain pattern. I would recommend a sanding sealer, because padauk tends to have little gaps in it. Invest in some sanding pads and learn to use them. 400 grit isn't enough.

I agree Russ's CA videos are worth watching. I was frustrating myself and making a big mess before I watched him, now I'm doing quite well with it.


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## leehljp (Aug 8, 2007)

This might be a personal preference but I do not start with anything less than 200+ and usually start with 320. My first 4 pens were paddauk. 

I have learned to treat each step in pen making as an individual step, and never to move on to the next until the current step was totally complete. This meant much experimenting, trial and error. If I got sanding streaks, I tried another wood or another pen until I learned how to control the sanding streaks and either 1. not get deep ones in the first place, or 2. sand them out without over sanding the blank.

Sure, I wanted to "make a pen". But the best way to make consistent pens of quality, I knew that I needed to "know" each step of making a pen and how I personally interacted, prevented certain results and how to overcome other problems. I was as intent on learning that as I was trying to get a finished pen. Now, for me, I know how to prevent certain problems and overcome others. 

Back to the Grit of the sandpaper: I do not need to use 100, 120 or 240. I start with 320 sometimes and 400 at others. I spend an extra 30 seconds to 2 minutes sanding down with the higher grits if I need to, but I don't apply more pressure. With a little patience, I let the higher sandpaper grit do its job and arrive at a smooth finish without the chance of a sanding grit scratches. Each pen, including the cheaper slimlines, deserve individual care in construction. That attitude more than anything else is the beginning of taking a person up a couple levels in pen making quality. Get the feel of each step and know it well. Work by experimenting until you can turn different kinds of wood and get it to size without having scratches. It may be different for each person.


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## Rifleman1776 (Aug 8, 2007)

Hank said it first. Starting at 200-220 at slow speeds would do very well for you. On such a tiny object as a pen, the coarser grits put in scratch rings that can be a real [explitive deleted] to get out. You can get 'sorta' good finish results by going to just 400 grit. But many here go into the 4,000 range with Micro Mesh. Slow speeds and don't use force, let the sandpaper do it's job.


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## EeyorIs21 (Aug 8, 2007)

Melanie,

Your issue is not with your sanding (except that maybe you stop at 400), but the open grain of the wood. 

If you do not like the CA finish (I am still struggling with it myself) you can use other products like a sanding sealer(maybe Enduro - there was a group buy a while ago) or a friction polish like Mylands(high build friction polish) or Shellawax(they also make the EEE mentioned previously here). The CA will probally still be the most durable and is well worth the effort to master. I continue to practice on it from time to time but have tried lots of other things along the way. So far I like the Shellawax over Mylands, and am waiting on my Enduro to compare that product. The video(s) by Russ Fairfield are very helpfull in pursuit of CA as grain filler and finish. I review them every time I get ready to make another attempt at mastering this unique finish.

Enduro buy link: http://www.penturners.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=24574
Russ Fairfield video(s): http://www.penturners.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=17155

I can only guess that your hairstick's are longer than a standard pen blank will accomadate(between 5-6") but you may want to visit Arizona Silhouette. He has some Curly Poplar that is both stabilized and dyed. The look AWESOME[]. You may want to give him a call and see if he has any in a length that might work for you. I know some of the colors are red and violet. Just not sure if he has the length you need. Just look for the "eye candy".

http://arizonasilhouette.net/index.html


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## IPD_Mrs (Aug 8, 2007)

Melanie,
You should really spend a lot of time reading the library section of the forum.  Find something that looks and sounds good to you then take the time to try it.

Now for CA....

If this is something you are going to try then you need to buy some micro mesh.  The best way to buy it is in the 3" x 6" sheets and cut them in half.  This will give you two sets of 3" x 3".  Here are the grits: 1500, 1800, 2400, 3200, 3600, 4000, 6000, 8000, 12000.

First once your item is turned and ready to sand to final size turn the lathe down speed wise to around 500 rpms and sand with 220, 300, 400 then 600 grit paper.  Wipe down your piece between grits with a clean cloth.  I like to hit the piece with activator and wipe it down.  This removes the dust and the activator help remove oil from the wood.  After the 600 grit paper I switch to the micro mesh and go up through 3600.  Continue to wipe down between grits.  

Now take a paper towel and fold it in half then in half again then into thirds.  This gives you a nice padded protection for your fingers.  Hold this in your right hand under the item while it is turning as you would if you were lightly sanding.  With the left hand quickly run a thin bead of thin CA across the top of the item.  Run your right hand with the paper towel quickly accross the bottom of the item 4-5 times.  Pull away the paper towel and set it down.  It may smoke and might even ignite into flames so be ready just in case.  lightly spray the item with activator then wipe down with a clean cloth.  I like to use t-shirt material.  You do this all with the lathe running and you will want to do 3-4 applications.  This next step I do with wet micro mesh.  I have two small plastic bowls with water.  One bowl has the mesh I need to use the other is where the mesh goes once used.(it helps me keep what grit is next straight)  This time I will start with the 1800 and work through 3600.  If the surface seems a little too bumpy I will start with 1500.  Again wipe down between grits.  Repeat the CA applications again for 3-4 more coats.  Most people will use medium or thick CA at this point, but it is easier to use the thin until you get use to it.  The thick really helps if you have a wood that has inclusions that need filled.  Anyway once you have 3-4 more coats applied you will sand the item again.  This time I will sand up to 6000 grit.  Again wipe down between coats and dont forget to sand with the grain with each grit.  Now apply 4-5 more coats of thin CA as you did in the first step.  Now you will sand all the way through the MM grits to 12000.  

At this point you should have from 10-13 coats of CA.  When I have a very open grain wood or something I want a very deep finish, then I will put as many as 24 coats on a pen.  Also if you have a wood such as cottonwood and have some small inclusions, you can fill them with the thick CA so your item is smooth even where there are holes.

It will look pretty good at this point but it needs to be polished a step further.  You will want to get a small bottle of Novus 2 polish.  Put a small amount (like 1-2 drops)on a cotton cloth such as the t-shirt material mentioned above and polish your item on the lathe.

At this point you are done and have a VERY durable finish on your item.  Try this a few times on something that does not have much shape to it such as a standard straight slim line.  I know you are doing hair sticks but try it on something that does not have much shape to it so you can get use to applying the CA.  I think if you are patient and don't get scared of the CA, you will like the results.

To the old timers on here, please feel free to add your own steps to this to help Melanie out.  I am just a rookie at this but when I take my time I would compare my finish to most anyone.  Also thanks to Bill B for giving me an instruction sheet on this.

Mike


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## Fred (Aug 9, 2007)

When applying the CA you MUST USE SLOW SPEEDS to avoid slinging the CA all over the place. Imagine where you would be if any got any into your eyes... You DO use safety glasses ... RIGHT? A full face safety shield would be better. []


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## Rifleman1776 (Aug 9, 2007)

To clarify my post and Mike's. MM 12,000 grit is about equivalent to 4,000 grit in standard sandpapers. I was referring to MM 12,000 when I said 4,000 grit.


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