# Lathe Question



## jleiwig (Sep 27, 2008)

I know most will say the JET mini is the way to go, but that kind of cash is not in the budget right now so it's out. 

I should be getting around $200 bucks here shortly for a tile job i'm doing. I'm looking to buy a mini lathe to get into the smaller turnings like pens and stoppers and such. I was looking at the grizzly H8259 which is their new mini lathe which looks almost identical to the rikon mini lathe. It would be $216 and some change shipped to my door. Does anyone have any experience with this lathe? I know it doesn't have indexing like the Rikon, but I think I can live without that for right now.

Or

The PSI turncrafter is around the same price. And the variable speed is in similar price range to the Rikon.

on the other hand.....

Woodcraft has the Rikon on sale for $299 til the end of October, but I would have to come up with the extra $100 bucks, plus additional $$$ for turning tools and other necessities. I just don't think the CFO (aka wifey) would be willing to part with that extra money this close to christmas when money is tight. 

I'm looking for honest opinions to help me out here and hopefully pick up a decent little lathe to make some neat stuff with. I'm hoping someone with some knowledge of this Griz lathe can tell me that I won't be wasting my money like if I bought one of the cheapo ones from Harbor Freight.

Thanks Guys and Gals 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Justin


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## bad (Sep 27, 2008)

Justin:
I just bought my lathe last summer and the cost of the lathe ($450.00) was actually less than half of the start up cost. As you mentioned you will need some turning tools. I found some good deals on ebay. The deals for you should be even better because you won't have to pay to get them across the boarder like I did. Then once you've got the turning tools you will need to be able to sharpen them. You will need a bench grinder at a minimum although I would recommen you invest in either a variable speed grinder or a slow speed grinder. Most people say that an 8" grinder is best but I have no problem with my 6" grinder (also found on ebay). Then the tools can be sharpened free hand on the grinder but it takes a lot of experience to do that properly so you might want to look at a sharpening system. I bought a Oneway Wolverine system for about $100. Now you've got a lathe and some sharp turning tools but no way of holding the wood on the lathe. You must buy a chuck if you're going to turn anything more than pens or a pen mandrel if you want to turn pens. If you're going to turn pens then you'll also need a small drill press to drill out the pen blanks. 
I'm sorry Justin if I'm discouraging you but if you're going to get into lathe work you need to know the true start up costs. For me it was about $1000.00. On the other hand, if you look at all the fun I've had, it was worth every cent.


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## toolcrazy (Sep 27, 2008)

If it boiled down to customer service. I think I would buy the PSI lathe. Grizzly customer service sucks, from what I've read many times over.


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## thewishman (Sep 27, 2008)

Join the Central Ohio Woodturners for $25 per year and borrow a club Jet mini lathe, stand and chuck. Sell a few pens and then buy your own outfit. You'd still need your own tools and mandrel, but it is a great return on your investment.

www.centralohiowoodturners.org

I have a Jet and like it. Have been looking at the Rikon, too.


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## Wildman (Sep 27, 2008)

Think you would be better served saving your money for a better Grizzly lathe over the H8259 model. 

For not much more money you can get a Jet 1014 VMH 7083755DA for $189.95 at Redmond Machinery.  Currently out of stock, might be able to order you one with free shipping. Have had not much luck posting their URL. You can check them out yourself at their web site or call them at 1-800-428-9898.


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## jleiwig (Sep 27, 2008)

Wildman said:


> Think you would be better served saving your money for a better Grizzly lathe over the H8259 model.
> 
> For not much more money you can get a Jet 1014 VMH 7083755DA for $189.95 at Redmond Machinery. Currently out of stock, might be able to order you one with free shipping. Have had not much luck posting their URL. You can check them out yourself at their web site or call them at 1-800-428-9898.


 
I looked at those and they are scratch and dent with only a 90 day warranty.  They do have the steel city VS for 249.99 though.  Not bad.


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## oldcaptainrusty (Sep 28, 2008)

Check Amazon.com for the PSI lathes, they are usually sold with free shipping.


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## jimbryan (Sep 28, 2008)

Justin, look at the Steel City lathe, I think you will be surprized at what $250 will get you
If you have a Woodcraft near you, you can touch what your thinking of buying instaed of relying on a picture.


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## wdcav1952 (Sep 28, 2008)

Justin,

You can also check out Craigslist in your area.  Sometimes you find some great deals.


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## Wildman (Sep 28, 2008)

Didn’t catch, Jet 1014,  at Redmond’s was scratch and dent. 

Speed range listed in 2008 catalog and web site don’t make sense to me for either the H8259 or G0624. That’s why say look at the higher priced VS Grizzly mini lathes if your must have a Grizzly lathe. 

If you check the spec sheet on the H8259 at Grizzly, speed range is different than what’s listed in the catalog and on web site. Spec sheet, says 609 to 2800 rpm.


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## Rifleman1776 (Sep 28, 2008)

toolcrazy said:


> If it boiled down to customer service. I think I would buy the PSI lathe. Grizzly customer service sucks, from what I've read many times over.



I would appreciate seeing some of those items you have read. Invariably negative comments about Grizzly are unsubstantiated.
I have many Grizzly tools and have found their service, before, during, and after the sale to be unsurpassed. They are a model I wish other businesses in America would use as an example.


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## RMB (Sep 29, 2008)

IMHO, the G0657 from grizzly is probably your best value for penturning and gives you the ability to expand into larger turnings like vases and medium sized bowls. It's one solid lathe. The VS is great, and the digital readout is really useful. I have NO complaints after about 4 months. And the price difference is only that of a couple good pens! I made enough pens to just about pay for mine in two evenings.


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## RMB (Sep 29, 2008)

Rifleman1776 said:


> I would appreciate seeing some of those items you have read. Invariably negative comments about Grizzly are unsubstantiated.
> I have many Grizzly tools and have found their service, before, during, and after the sale to be unsurpassed. They are a model I wish other businesses in America would use as an example.



Yeah, I haven't had problems with Grizzly, and the one time I did, (accidentally ordered and paid for two lathes, but it was with a whole ton of other stuff) they responded to my emails and fixed it promptly. Also had a problem with the Arbor alignment on a TS from them, and they picked it up and dropped off a WHOLE NEW ONE.


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## Ron in Drums PA (Sep 29, 2008)

toolcrazy said:


> If it boiled down to customer service. I think I would buy the PSI lathe. Grizzly customer service sucks, from what I've read many times over.




Grizzly customer service is good, which is important, because their lathes are lousy. In matter of fact, I know a couple of Grizzly die-hards that have become good friends with Grizzly's CS people.

Save up until you can afford something a little better.

Also, I wouldn't have a problem with a scratch and dent Jet lathe. I think I might even pick one up for that price.


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## Rifleman1776 (Sep 29, 2008)

On a wood working forum I used to belong to, a member discussed a problem he had with Griz service. It was one of those things where everything went wrong. One day a message was posted by Shiraz Bilola, the owner of Grizzly. Unknown to most members, he was also a member but seldom posted. He read about the situation and jumped in promising instant satisfaction for the member/customer.
When I was researching for the purchase of my new lathe, which ended up being the G0632, I found a discrepancy between the catalog description and that on the web site. I notified Griz and got a nice reply. About two weeks later they contacted me with an explanation and apology. Somewhere in the company the information got confused between the print and web people. They thanked me for bringing this to their attention and sent me a $50.00 gift certificate. Later, I received a phone call from one of their top executives. We had about a two hour conversation. He asked about my experiences with Griz tools, employees, service, etc. He brought me up to date on what and how the company does to try to stay on top of what the market wants.
Most of my purchases are at the store in Springfield, MO. I have never had less than a 100% positive experience dealing with the company or any of their people. If I lived closer I would want to work in their store. When everyone is smiling, you know something is being done right.
BTW, some people have told me, flat out, they hate the company because of the ethnicity of the owner, Shiraz Bilola. He is Iraqi. But he is an American citizen. He started small and built the American dream. He supports causes he believes in and principals I share, specifically, politically conservative. He is a gun collector and avid supporter of the 2nd Amendment.
I fear much of the venom spewed about Grizzly company is born of bigotry. That is sad if true. That is why I always ask those who criticize without facts to state the genesis of their comments. Few ever do.
Perhaps I am overly sensitive. But, when I see comments, without supporting factual basis, that say things like "Grizzly tools are %$^&*." , I feel they are insulting the intelligence me and the millions of other people who choose to purchase that brand of tool.
My hot button was hit. Sorry for the length of the rant.


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## jleiwig (Sep 29, 2008)

thewishman said:


> Join the Central Ohio Woodturners for $25 per year and borrow a club Jet mini lathe, stand and chuck. Sell a few pens and then buy your own outfit. You'd still need your own tools and mandrel, but it is a great return on your investment.
> 
> www.centralohiowoodturners.org
> 
> I have a Jet and like it. Have been looking at the Rikon, too.


 
Do you know how long you can borrow a lathe?  Is it like a weekend or something longer.  Being that it would be an hour drive each way to attend a meeting or turn in a lathe I would hope it would be longer than just a weekend.


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## jleiwig (Sep 29, 2008)

Rifleman1776 said:


> On a wood working forum I used to belong to, a member discussed a problem he had with Griz service. It was one of those things where everything went wrong. One day a message was posted by Shiraz Bilola, the owner of Grizzly. Unknown to most members, he was also a member but seldom posted. He read about the situation and jumped in promising instant satisfaction for the member/customer.
> When I was researching for the purchase of my new lathe, which ended up being the G0632, I found a discrepancy between the catalog description and that on the web site. I notified Griz and got a nice reply. About two weeks later they contacted me with an explanation and apology. Somewhere in the company the information got confused between the print and web people. They thanked me for bringing this to their attention and sent me a $50.00 gift certificate. Later, I received a phone call from one of their top executives. We had about a two hour conversation. He asked about my experiences with Griz tools, employees, service, etc. He brought me up to date on what and how the company does to try to stay on top of what the market wants.
> Most of my purchases are at the store in Springfield, MO. I have never had less than a 100% positive experience dealing with the company or any of their people. If I lived closer I would want to work in their store. When everyone is smiling, you know something is being done right.
> BTW, some people have told me, flat out, they hate the company because of the ethnicity of the owner, Shiraz Bilola. He is Iraqi. But he is an American citizen. He started small and built the American dream. He supports causes he believes in and principals I share, specifically, politically conservative. He is a gun collector and avid supporter of the 2nd Amendment.
> ...


 
I don't have a problem with your rant it's well warranted.  I am on a forum that Shiraz frequents when he can and he has always been courteous and helpful, often donating time and money to the forum.  Maybe if people weren't so quick to bash him or his products he would help out here with sponsorship or donations.  

I really don't think that people like the gibson custom shop or other shops who do production woodworking on a daily basis would trust Grizzly if the quality wasn't there.  Sure there are certain things that aren't the highest quality, but my way to avoid those things are to cross reference them in the Harbor Freight catalog.  If the same Item exists in both I won't buy it from either.  It's a simple method and it works.  

The thing that bothers me is when someone says something about a company without direct experience ala what Mr. Toolcrazy has posted.

That's about as helpful as teets on a boar hog as my father would say.


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## jleiwig (Sep 29, 2008)

jimbryan said:


> Justin, look at the Steel City lathe, I think you will be surprized at what $250 will get you
> If you have a Woodcraft near you, you can touch what your thinking of buying instaed of relying on a picture.


 
Unfortunately my local woodcraft only has JET lathes or I would check out the steel city lathe.



			
				wdcav1952 said:
			
		

> Justin,
> 
> You can also check out Craigslist in your area. Sometimes you find some great deals.


 
Unfortunately the only things I see being sold on the local craigslist are powermatics.  Not that I wouldn't love to have one, just not able to afford it! :biggrin:


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## Ron in Drums PA (Sep 29, 2008)

jleiwig said:


> I really don't think that people like the gibson custom shop or other shops who do production woodworking on a daily basis would trust Grizzly if the quality wasn't there.



Most of Grizzly's flat woodworking tools are decent tools to own. Unfortunately, the quality of their lathes are not up to par with the rest of their product line.


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## Rifleman1776 (Sep 29, 2008)

Ron in Drums PA said:


> Most of Grizzly's flat woodworking tools are decent tools to own. Unfortunately, the quality of their lathes are not up to par with the rest of their product line.



And on what facts do you base that statement? 

I would really like to know.

I am now on my second Griz lathe. The first cost $325.00 (G1067Z) and provided yeoman's service daily for six years. It is now in daily use by a professional. That is a great "par" standard IMHO. It never gave problems except for a few belt changes.
Current one cost $1,200.00, is an EVS, and I would say it is 95% the lathe that a $4,000.00 PM is, or other well known brands for that matter.
Some very experienced turners have seen my current lathe (G0632) and taken test drives. I'm sure Griz has sold several based on their try-outs.
I am still waiting for someone to state factually; "this 'specific' feature is lower quality than brand A". Folks can't because the Griz lathes are excellent quality and, IMHO, far and away the best dollar value on the market. Qualification: the two lowest end minis are, again, IMHO, no more than toys. The rest are serious machines.


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## Brandon25 (Sep 29, 2008)

If borrowing one can work out for you, that'd be your best option until you can afford what you need. However, if that doesn't work, a little thrift can go a long way. I know your situation very well. I was, and am, in a similar boat, financially. The important thing is to set aside tool money. If you make a pen, keep the profit for tools. Try to do an extra odd job with the specific intention of supplementing the tool fund. Sell something you have for the sole purpose of a specific item you want. That's how I got what I have so far. Here's what I know from my experience, and may catch some static for it, but here goes....

1. The set of 8 lathe tools from Harbor Freight for $10 WILL work for spindle turning. My set smelled bad out of the box, had cobwebs on them, and the grinds on them are a joke, but you can clean 'em up and grind them well, and they WILL work for the short time it takes to build up a little cash. I have nicer ones now, and I'll say you DO NOT want to use the HF set for turning large items. The tang is not very beefy, but for pens and small spindles, they're well worth the money. I still use both skews and a few others to this day.

2. A regular highspeed grinder will work. I bought one at Home Depot for like $60. Or check Craigslist or yard sales. The wheels that come with it WILL work. The tool rest, while deemed worthless by many, will work. A dressing tool is a must. The wheels are not really APPROPRIATE for woodturning tools, but that just means they clog faster, and the tools get hot faster. So dress the wheel and quench the tools frequently. Learning to grind some things freehand is easy as pie, like a skew. A gouge is tougher, but it's not impossible. Watch a video or two. If you're practicing on the HF set, break down the cost per tool- You're wasting steel from a $1.12 tool or something like that. Who cares?

3. You CAN drill without a drill press. It's a little more tricky, but I drill on my lathe. I bought the drill chuck with Morse Taper from Harbor Freight for $7 and it works perfect. Straight up.

4. Buy a face shield. They go on sale at HF for like $10.

By my count, you're still under a hundred bucks plus the lathe and pen making supplies. A mandrel and mill will set you back anywhere from $25 to $50 for both. A 60* live center can be had for $15. It's not great starting this way. I have the grinder still, with better wheels. Works fine. I have better tools. I still drill on the lathe though, and I still sharpen freehand. And I still use the HF drill chuck. This stuff will tide you over. You'll replace some of it. It wasn't all a waste, but if you had the funds to start out with better stuff, it'd be better. That's my honest experience.

Brandon


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## jleiwig (Sep 29, 2008)

Brandon25 said:


> If borrowing one can work out for you, that'd be your best option until you can afford what you need. However, if that doesn't work, a little thrift can go a long way. I know your situation very well. I was, and am, in a similar boat, financially. The important thing is to set aside tool money. If you make a pen, keep the profit for tools. Try to do an extra odd job with the specific intention of supplementing the tool fund. Sell something you have for the sole purpose of a specific item you want. That's how I got what I have so far. Here's what I know from my experience, and may catch some static for it, but here goes....
> 
> 1. The set of 8 lathe tools from Harbor Freight for $10 WILL work for spindle turning. My set smelled bad out of the box, had cobwebs on them, and the grinds on them are a joke, but you can clean 'em up and grind them well, and they WILL work for the short time it takes to build up a little cash. I have nicer ones now, and I'll say you DO NOT want to use the HF set for turning large items. The tang is not very beefy, but for pens and small spindles, they're well worth the money. I still use both skews and a few others to this day.
> 
> ...


 
You speak my language well.  I already have the grinder so that's not a cost factor so to speak.  I'm sure we'd all love tormeks and the like.  

I thank you for your candid honesty. :biggrin:


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## wdcav1952 (Sep 29, 2008)

Hey, everyone has, and is entitled to, an opinion.  A couple of people I know bought the Grizzly minis, and had bad experiences.  From what I can gather, their bigger lathes are better made.

I don't believe that complaints are based on the nationality of the owner of Grizzly.  Handling complaints via the phone or email can be a problem.  Since I live close to a Grizzly, if I ever have any complaints, I will handle them in person.  As yet, I have not had any problems.  True, my two lathes are CarbaTec and Jet, but I own a Grizzly air compressor, brad nailer, bandsaw, etc.

Back up and take collective deep breaths.

Re: Craigslist, it took 3 or 4 months of looking before the Jet 1236 I bought came available.

As a side note, how about adding some first names at least?  I like to know in some way to whom I am speaking.

Disclaimer:  The above was written after consuming an excellent Hendricks gin martini.  Any errors, omissions, or general BS problems should be referred to the Hendricks web site.


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## Wildman (Sep 29, 2008)

Rifleman, Grizzly today’s is not the Grizzly dealt with in mid 1990's.  Back then Harbor Freight was their biggest rival in mail order tool business.  Grizzly has some great products and some real dogs. In any event, product manuals are written well, and helped me fix what ails my scroll saw, lathe & bandsaw. Prices and shipping cost may not be as competitive as before.  Grizzly faces tougher competition today.

Bought my first lathe at Grizzly, real piece of crap.  They no longer sell that model. Kept breaking the tool rest base.  To be fair, did stuff on that lathe that was not very wise or safe.  Became a real Mac Gyver fixing that piece of junk. Replacement parts and shipping fees were reasonable. Even paid a little extra for them to weld threads where the lever screwed into the tool rest base. Back then, order taker put me in contact with a technician, to solve tool rest welded thread problem. Didn’t have to make a toll call to get a simple problem resolved.  Finally put it out to the trash after buying a little better lathe. 

In the past few years dealt with a couple order takers that made me feel I was wasting their time with my small orders for stuff and parts. I just want to place my order and get off the phone, not going to waste that person’s time taking my order.. If am paying UPS price for shipping, don’t mail me the item through U.S. Post Office at half the cost. Grizzly is not the only company doing that today. 

Last year replaced 2 thrust and 4 guide bearings for $21.95 which included shipping from Reid supply.  Normal wear & tear on my ultimate bandsaw. Checked yesterday, item # 82 thrust bearing still not listed, used to cost $5.00 ea.. I’ve replaced them before. Four guide bearings would cost $8.20 + shipping $9.00, total $17.20.   

Wonder if they’ll give me a $50.00 gift certificate for telling them their data sheet on H8259 doesn’t match catalog or web site specs? Also they’ve omitted item # 82 on their parts price list for G0555.  Hey anybody seen  Papa Grizz, and me money?


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## Rifleman1776 (Sep 29, 2008)

Wildman said:


> Rifleman, Grizzly today’s is not the Grizzly dealt with in mid 1990's.  Back then Harbor Freight was their biggest rival in mail order tool business.  Grizzly has some great products and some real dogs. In any event, product manuals are written well, and helped me fix what ails my scroll saw, lathe & bandsaw. Prices and shipping cost may not be as competitive as before.  Grizzly faces tougher competition today.
> 
> Bought my first lathe at Grizzly, real piece of crap.  They no longer sell that model. Kept breaking the tool rest base.  To be fair, did stuff on that lathe that was not very wise or safe.  Became a real Mac Gyver fixing that piece of junk. Replacement parts and shipping fees were reasonable. Even paid a little extra for them to weld threads where the lever screwed into the tool rest base. Back then, order taker put me in contact with a technician, to solve tool rest welded thread problem. Didn’t have to make a toll call to get a simple problem resolved.  Finally put it out to the trash after buying a little better lathe.
> 
> ...




Interesting report on your experiences.
I note the "not wise or safe" usage of your lathe. Wonder how other brands would have held up under similar abuse.
Sorry to hear you have not had good experience with order takers. Quite different than mine. I once ordered a belt for my lathe. Order taker noted my purchase history and told me the belt I was replacing had been purchased less than a year ago and they sent me a belt free under warranty. That kind of service has been the norm in my experience.
You asked: "Wonder if they’ll give me a $50.00 gift certificate for telling them their data sheet on H8259 doesn’t match catalog or web site specs?"
Try them. Maybe.
I believe I have been hard on my G0555 for the past six years. Still runs flawlessly. Oh, well.
Good luck in future.
BTW, if I have a bad experience I will report it. I owe nothing to Grizzly. My relationship with them is business. I give them good money and expect to get good products and service in return. If that changes, I'll snap like a dawg.


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## NewLondon88 (Sep 29, 2008)

Hmm..  I bought my Jet mini on sale for $199 .. and then another $45 for the extended bed.

The Rikon is similar size and features (Woodcraft's house brand) but doesn't feel quite as solid to me. But, I didn't work with it for more than a minute.. so that impression isn't based on a lot of experience.

I see Jet mini's on CraigsList all the time .. I saw a variable speed 1014 for $200 about two months ago ..and I only read my small area.


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## bdonald (Sep 29, 2008)

Well, I picked up the rikon 2 years ago, and it has served me well.  I use it for pens, bowls, platters, you name it. One of the nice things is, you can get the extension beds as you need them, and you can also add the PSI vs motor to it if you choose.  I also looked at the steelcity one today that Jim mentioned, and talked my brother into getting that one.  For 250 at woodcraft for the vs one, it's a pretty well built machine.  The rikon is a 12" swing over bed compared to 10 on the jet, and is 16 inches between centers.  No big deal if you are just looking at pens, but I also turn platters, and the extra 2 inches comes in handy.


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## el_d (Sep 30, 2008)

I got a rockler special from my father 2 yrs ago and it still runs true.  My father has a Jet and is impressed with the rockler lathe. For the price its a good deal IMO. Customer service is good. I needed to replace the bearing on it and contacted them, since the tool was still under warranty they sent me a new one and told me to strip the other for parts if I wanted.
 The lathe purchased for 160.00 but now they are on sale for 199.00 and go by the name Excelsior.


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## jleiwig (Sep 30, 2008)

bdonald said:


> Well, I picked up the rikon 2 years ago, and it has served me well. I use it for pens, bowls, platters, you name it. One of the nice things is, you can get the extension beds as you need them, and you can also add the PSI vs motor to it if you choose. I also looked at the steelcity one today that Jim mentioned, and talked my brother into getting that one. For 250 at woodcraft for the vs one, it's a pretty well built machine. The rikon is a 12" swing over bed compared to 10 on the jet, and is 16 inches between centers. No big deal if you are just looking at pens, but I also turn platters, and the extra 2 inches comes in handy.


 
Do you find that you use the indexing of the Rikon at all?  Does the Steel City have the indexing feature too?


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## vangaspens (Sep 30, 2008)

Rockler sells the Excelsior. Identical to jet min lathe except longer bed and slowest speed is 700 (Jet is 500). Speeds are changed manually. I've been using this lathe daily for 6 months with no problems, turned 100's of pens and bottle stoppers. You can buy it at Wood Werks in Columbus for $199.99. If you wait 'tll Oct 16, 17, 18, during their Expo you can take 10% off that and get a PSI mandrel at half price along with a bag of 25 bubinga blanks.


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## FloridaDon (Sep 30, 2008)

Have you tried Craigslist?

Quite often you will find lathes, tools etc. for a fraction of the cost and you won't have any shipping.

There is one on there now for $90 with some tools.  May not be the greatest, but then again it may be.  It has a phone number to call the guy - give it a try.

Florida Don


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## jskeen (Sep 30, 2008)

Hey Justin, 

You sound like a person in almost exactly the same situation I was in one year ago.  I had been interested in turning for a long time and really wanted to give it a try, but cash flow was absolutely critical.  I had 2 kids with another due just any time, just barely enough money to pay the bills with the wife taking a few years off work to be with the offspring, and a full time job.  BUT..... where there is a will there is a way.  I ordered my wilton microlathe from amazon for $99.99 (it's up to $161.00 now).  Harbor freight sells the same lathe with different paint for $139.00 now.  It's not perfect by far, and I'm now looking at upgrading it to a jet mini, but if I had to wait till I had $300 or $400 to get the jet up front, I would not have made a pen yet.  It may take a little more time and a little more effort to set up, but I've made pens on that little $100.00 lathe wigh my second hand set of   $10.00 craftsman tools that I am proud of, and that other members here have seen and given good reviews.  

I will second the statement that the lathe itself is probably about half of your initial investment before you turn your first pen, but with a little scrounging and borrowing, you can be set up and running for about what you have available to invest in the near future.  

BY FAR the best advise is to show up at the next meeting of your local turning club!!!  I can guarantee you will meet people there that will help you, show you things, loan or give you stuff, and generally make your beginning experience much cheaper, easier, safer, more enjoyable and productive than you could ever do by yourself, even with the great source of info that this site is.  

Lastly, Feel free to drop me a PM and ask any questions you might have.  I'm not the most expert turner around here by far, but I am a past master at scrounging stuff for little of nothing, and getting by with the absolute minimum cash outlay possible.  Plus I work at home and can talk on the phone pretty much anytime


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## bdonald (Sep 30, 2008)

jleiwig said:


> Do you find that you use the indexing of the Rikon at all?  Does the Steel City have the indexing feature too?



Yeah, I use the indexing, which I left out on my original post, but not that often.  It is a nice feature, and a nice one handed lock when switching chucks and stuff.  I'm not sure if the SC has indexing though.  I did run across one at HF yesterday that is 120, it's a little benchtop lathe, 8 x 12, vs, #1mt, and looks identical to my little wilton that I started out with.  I can vouch for the wilton, as I turned quite a bit of stuff on it, and to this day use it for CA/BLO finishing since it has the vs motor.  Only thing I ever had to do was rewire the cord because I moved some stuff on it and broke through, but that was my fault.  If I were starting out <and this is just my opinion after searching for a while> I'd look at the HF benchtop, if I could afford more I'd move up to the Steel City vs, and if I could go a little more it would be the rikon.  Anything higher than that would be the Nova DVR   I have also found it nice to have 2 <actually 3, but one isnt set up> lathes since I do different things like bowls, and if I want a finial or something on the lid, I can just toss a piece on the wilton without having to remove chucks and stuff, taking longer to do that than it would to turn.  Also nice if I am doing a batch of pens, and can let the finish sit on the baby lathe while turning another one, and coming back to it.  And when I'm done, the wilton goes back under the bench, not taking up space.  Sorry if this is a long winded answer to a short question


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## Ron in Drums PA (Sep 30, 2008)

Rifleman1776 said:


> Ron in Drums PA said:
> 
> 
> > Most of Grizzly's flat woodworking tools are decent tools to own. Unfortunately, the quality of their lathes are not up to par with the rest of their product line.
> ...




You said you where never going to respond to my posts anymore and asked that I do the same for you.

What is your point in baiting me? You know how I feel, I never kept the facts about grizzly quiet.  

If you want to know what I've said, just do a search and stop boring me with your nonsense.


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## jleiwig (Sep 30, 2008)

vangaspens said:


> Rockler sells the Excelsior. Identical to jet min lathe except longer bed and slowest speed is 700 (Jet is 500). Speeds are changed manually. I've been using this lathe daily for 6 months with no problems, turned 100's of pens and bottle stoppers. You can buy it at Wood Werks in Columbus for $199.99. If you wait 'tll Oct 16, 17, 18, during their Expo you can take 10% off that and get a PSI mandrel at half price along with a bag of 25 bubinga blanks.


 
Hmmm..not sure if I'll have the money by then, but I will be near Columbus that weekend.  :biggrin:


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## Rifleman1776 (Sep 30, 2008)

Ron in Drums PA said:


> You said you where never going to respond to my posts anymore and asked that I do the same for you.
> 
> What is your point in baiting me? You know how I feel, I never kept the facts about grizzly quiet.
> 
> If you want to know what I've said, just do a search and stop boring me with your nonsense.



Does that mean you are unable to present facts to support your claims?


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## musky (Sep 30, 2008)

Rifleman1776 said:


> Does that mean you are unable to present facts to support your claims?




Are you 2 really going to argue back and forth on this again.  I posted a question about buying a lathe on woodturning online and 75% of the post were you guys arguing about grizzly lathes.


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## Brandon25 (Sep 30, 2008)

I have the Rikon as well, and have mainly used the indexing for holding it still while changing faceplate, drill chuck, etc. It is very handy for me though. 

Also, Bob mentioned the HF benchtop lathe. I dont own it, but I know of a guy who does and he makes nice shiny stuff just like the rest of us. Haven't heard a complaint from him yet, and I do envy the variable speed a little.


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## Rifleman1776 (Sep 30, 2008)

musky said:


> Are you 2 really going to argue back and forth on this again.  I posted a question about buying a lathe on woodturning online and 75% of the post were you guys arguing about grizzly lathes.



Who is arguing? I am asking if facts can be presented to substantiate statements that Grizzly lathes are poor quality.
I realize I always get in trouble with these threads. I seek facts from people who insult others for their choices of tools and come close to libeling the companies that make them. I only want those statements backed up with first hand or documented information.


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## Texatdurango (Sep 30, 2008)

jleiwig said:


> I know most will say the JET mini is the way to go, but that kind of cash is not in the budget right now so it's out. ....
> 
> I'm looking for honest opinions to help me out here and hopefully pick up a decent little lathe to make some neat stuff with. I'm hoping someone with some knowledge of this Griz lathe can tell me that I won't be wasting my money like if I bought one of the cheapo ones from Harbor Freight.
> Justin


Justin, you got some good suggestions but I would like to reiterate one thing, and that is the lathe itself is just the tip of the iceberg! A decent set of turning tools, a few live and dead centers, a chuck and or a pen mandrel will quickly approach the cost of the lathe itself! Then there are the supplies… turning stock, glue, sandpaper, finishes, polishes, pen kits or stopper bases, and on and on… to the tune of hundreds of dollars!

If funds are really that tight, you might want to look at ALL of the tools and supplies you will need before buying the lathe. Perhaps a simple spreadsheet might be in order.  The tally might suprise you as you start adding up all the little things, I know I was shocked at the amount of money I spent the first month I had my mini lathe. 

I don’t have a Grizzly wood lathe so can’t offer any suggestions but for what it’s worth, I have one of their metal lathes and really like it and the superior customer service I have received so far is second to none!


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## jleiwig (Oct 1, 2008)

Texatdurango said:


> Justin, you got some good suggestions but I would like to reiterate one thing, and that is the lathe itself is just the tip of the iceberg! A decent set of turning tools, a few live and dead centers, a chuck and or a pen mandrel will quickly approach the cost of the lathe itself! Then there are the supplies… turning stock, glue, sandpaper, finishes, polishes, pen kits or stopper bases, and on and on… to the tune of hundreds of dollars!
> 
> If funds are really that tight, you might want to look at ALL of the tools and supplies you will need before buying the lathe. Perhaps a simple spreadsheet might be in order. The tally might suprise you as you start adding up all the little things, I know I was shocked at the amount of money I spent the first month I had my mini lathe.
> 
> I don’t have a Grizzly wood lathe so can’t offer any suggestions but for what it’s worth, I have one of their metal lathes and really like it and the superior customer service I have received so far is second to none!


 
I know..that's why I want to stick to a lower cost lathe so there is a little something left over to buy all the other stuff.  Plus with my birthday and Christmas coming up I'm hoping gift cards for woodcraft and rockler will show up in my stocking! :biggrin:

See, I know this will sound weird, but buying the little stuff as time allows isn't going to be the problem.  It's the outlay of the $300 bucks for the lathe up front that is the problem.  My wife is already complaining that I always get to buy toys and she never gets anything.  I told her if she wanted to spend the money then she was going to have to do the tile job.  I don't complain to her every couple weeks when she spends $30 bucks a shot getting her nails done because I know it makes her feel better about herself for some crazy reason. But I know if she outlayed $300 bucks for a something I'd be pretty ticked.


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## Rifleman1776 (Oct 1, 2008)

jleiwig said:


> I know..that's why I want to stick to a lower cost lathe so there is a little something left over to buy all the other stuff.  Plus with my birthday and Christmas coming up I'm hoping gift cards for woodcraft and rockler will show up in my stocking! :biggrin:
> 
> See, I know this will sound weird, but buying the little stuff as time allows isn't going to be the problem.  It's the outlay of the $300 bucks for the lathe up front that is the problem.  My wife is already complaining that I always get to buy toys and she never gets anything.  I told her if she wanted to spend the money then she was going to have to do the tile job.  I don't complain to her every couple weeks when she spends $30 bucks a shot getting her nails done because I know it makes her feel better about herself for some crazy reason. But I know if she outlayed $300 bucks for a something I'd be pretty ticked.





Good luck with your (very) typical marital struggles.
Only you know how to mollify your wife when it comes to buying new toys. I have a rule for my tool/toy buying. It is: 'nothing comes in unless something goes out'. I may have a flurry of good sales on pens or other items; or I may sell some tools or other 'stuff' I no longer need and those funds are used to purchase more 'stuff'. On occasion I do prowl garage sales and flea markets. Those can often proved to be treasure troves at little cost. Sometimes you get lucky. Last night, at a large event, I purchased $4.00 worth of tickets for a Chinese auction. I won a Bosch angle grinder, retail value almost $300.00. Hang in there.

And, BTW, good luck with your choice of lathes. I have given up on the hopes of folks stating facts to support their hate for certain tools. Unfortunately, without facts to back their negativity, you have not been helped at all. I'll be happy to share my experiences and research with you off forum. But, now, I will bow out of this thread. Fini.


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## bdonald (Oct 1, 2008)

jleiwig said:


> See, I know this will sound weird, but buying the little stuff as time allows isn't going to be the problem.  It's the outlay of the $300 bucks for the lathe up front that is the problem.  My wife is already complaining that I always get to buy toys and she never gets anything.  I told her if she wanted to spend the money then she was going to have to do the tile job.  I don't complain to her every couple weeks when she spends $30 bucks a shot getting her nails done because I know it makes her feel better about herself for some crazy reason. But I know if she outlayed $300 bucks for a something I'd be pretty ticked.



Naw, doesnt sound wierd at all, we all do that.  Once the $ starts turning into the $$ and $$$, we have to re-evaluate because your explanation to your spouse <and yourself> needs to be justified.  Then it becomes a joint decision,at least if you want to stay married!! <or not come home to find a new mink coat sitting in the closet> .  One thing that helps me, I look at the higher priced lathes, like, oh, the oneway 2436 and show her that, then she doesnt complain so much at the 300 instead of the 4000+.  Works with computers and guitars too   Good luck, and if you need any more info on the Rikon, shoot the questions, I'll be more than happy to share what I know and answer any questions you find.


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## Wildman (Oct 1, 2008)

Really surprised nobody mentoned the HF 12x33" 34706-4VGA wood lathe. It list for $299.99, but often goes on sale for $177.99. With a 15% off coupon not a bad deal. While not my first choice for an entry level lathe have a lot of satisfied turners with that lathe. 

Rifleman, I don't hate Grizzly wood lathes, some are better than others though.


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## bdonald (Oct 1, 2008)

Wildman said:


> Really surprised nobody mentoned the HF 12x33" 34706-4VGA wood lathe. It list for $299.99, but often goes on sale for $177.99. With a 15% off coupon not a bad deal. While not my first choice for an entry level lathe have a lot of satisfied turners with that lathe.
> 
> Rifleman, I don't hate Grizzly wood lathes, some are better than others though.



I own one, bought it about a year ago, but it's still sitting in the hallway in pieces <bought it used for 100 bux>.  Just waiting to move,since my shop is way too small for it now.  The guy I bought it from said it was a nice machine, and I want to like it since it has a lot of features, but I havent used it first hand to recommend it and have that come back to bite me in the butt   The really nice features of that are the rotating headstock, which is why I got it to do bigger platters, and the speed controls.  Am looking forward to hearing what others experiences are of this, as this would be a great alternative for the OP.  Good thinking!


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## Brandon25 (Oct 1, 2008)

Rifleman1776 said:


> And, BTW, good luck with your choice of lathes. I have given up on the hopes of folks stating facts to support their hate for certain tools. Unfortunately, without facts to back their negativity, you have not been helped at all. I'll be happy to share my experiences and research with you off forum. But, now, I will bow out of this thread. Fini.



Rifleman,

I know I'm new here, you're a long-time member, and I certainly don't want to make any enemies from those that have gotten me this far in our craft, but with all due respect, I humbly submit that I think you're wrong. Justin's gotten quite a bit of very helpful advice, contrary to your assertation. Truth be told, it seems like those who are arguing ad-infinitum are the only ones not being helpful. Keep in mind we're likely leaving a first impression on at least one person here.

Brandon


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## nava1uni (Oct 2, 2008)

I have a Rikon mini lathe and it is great.  It runs well, easy to change belt to change speed. Minimal vibration. It is a solid machine.  I also have their 14" bandsaw and drill press.  They are all solid pieces of equipment and workhorses in using them daily with only regular cleaning and maintenance.


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## Rifleman1776 (Oct 3, 2008)

Brandon25 said:


> Rifleman,
> 
> I know I'm new here, you're a long-time member, and I certainly don't want to make any enemies from those that have gotten me this far in our craft, but with all due respect, I humbly submit that I think you're wrong. Justin's gotten quite a bit of very helpful advice, contrary to your assertation. Truth be told, it seems like those who are arguing ad-infinitum are the only ones not being helpful. Keep in mind we're likely leaving a first impression on at least one person here.
> 
> Brandon



Let me get this right, you think I'm wrong after I stated facts and first hand experiences? Do you think I am also wrong in asking others to state facts rather than just vague negative comments? And, your "seems like" comment is a common tactic here. Imaginary complaints do pop up often here. If you are able to show specifically where I have misstated something, I will apologize and correct. Understand, I realize I am the villain in these discussions for wanting helpful facts for myself and others. Those who use "seems like"; "I think"; "I hate"; and other non-specific arguments, straight from their imagination, are the ones who usually prevail. It's a strange world.


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## Brandon25 (Oct 3, 2008)

Rifleman1776 said:


> Let me get this right, you think I'm wrong after I stated facts and first hand experiences? Do you think I am also wrong in asking others to state facts rather than just vague negative comments? And, your "seems like" comment is a common tactic here. Imaginary complaints do pop up often here. If you are able to show specifically where I have misstated something, I will apologize and correct. Understand, I realize I am the villain in these discussions for wanting helpful facts for myself and others. Those who use "seems like"; "I think"; "I hate"; and other non-specific arguments, straight from their imagination, are the ones who usually prevail. It's a strange world.



No, I dont think you're wrong for stating first hand facts and experience. That is not what I said. Fact is, Frank, you said he hadn't been helped at all, and that's simply not true. The purpose of my post was to say that he had received help, which you ascertained was not the case.

Additionally, I don't know what type of late night alleyway run-ins you've had with this mythical "seems like" demon, but I'll not be dragged into a word-mincing contest.

Finally, you said  "If you are able to show specifically where I have misstated something, I will apologize and correct." Specifically, nothing was errant in your posts. Generally, the tangent was unnecessary, hence my words "those who are arguing ad-infinitum." I wasn't just talking to you. If you've got a recurring "Grizzly" problem, why not hash it out via private messaging with your adversaries instead of repeatedly littering open forum threads with personal vendettas?
If you've got more to say, feel free to message me. I'd hate to become a deserving recipient of my own admonition.
Respectfully,
Brandon


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## jleiwig (Oct 3, 2008)

Children!  Stop bickering.  It was ok to make a point but to keep going back and forth is like peeing into the wind.  I thank all of you for  your suggestions and I will take them to the CFO to see if she will release funding for a lathe purchase.  I may have even sold a pen to a guy at work just telling  him about them.  I also know a bunch of hunters who will buy pot calls and such when I start making those.


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## randyrls (Oct 3, 2008)

Rifleman1776 said:


> I would appreciate seeing some of those items you have read. Invariably negative comments about Grizzly are unsubstantiated.
> I have many Grizzly tools and have found their service, before, during, and after the sale to be unsurpassed. They are a model I wish other businesses in America would use as an example.




I have always had good service and great customer support from Grizzly.  Tech Support didn't even laugh "How do I unscrew the knob from this shaft?"   ANS: "It just pulls straight off sir, it doesn't unscrew".  "Oh, that is why the vice grips I used to try to unscrew the knob didn't work!"

Lately their supply of parts seems to be dwindling though.  2 months wait to get replacement / enhancement parts.  I suspect that they are tired of people buying their lathe at HF and getting parts from Grizzly.   I don't blame them as this isn't a big ticket item.

I bought tools and my lathe from them as I want them to stay around.


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## ldb2000 (Oct 4, 2008)

OK I know I'm gonna get beat up for suggesting this but... I was just at Harbor freight and they have a New lathe that is almost an exact copy of the Jet 5 speed lathe (the 1014) , it's most likely made on the same assembly line and just not finished as well as the Jet . It sells for $199.99 , I looked it over and it looks pretty good , I have the Jet 1014 VSi and the castings look the same as mine . It might be worth a look if you have a HF anywhere near you .


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## bdonald (Oct 4, 2008)

nava1uni said:


> I have a Rikon mini lathe and it is great.  It runs well, easy to change belt to change speed. Minimal vibration. It is a solid machine.  I also have their 14" bandsaw and drill press.  They are all solid pieces of equipment and workhorses in using them daily with only regular cleaning and maintenance.



And to add, I have had GREAT customer support from them the two times I called them, one not even really related to thier product, specifically.  Rod took the time to check if the PSI vs motor is a direct replacement, even telling me the little things to look for.  So far have had a really positive experience with both thier equipment and thier support, and like Cindy said, the thing is a workhorse.  If only they had one inbetween the mini lathe and the monster lathe, I wouldnt even be looking at the nova dvr right now!


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## Texatdurango (Oct 4, 2008)

jleiwig said:


> ...See, I know this will sound weird, but buying the little stuff as time allows isn't going to be the problem. It's the outlay of the $300 bucks for the lathe up front that is the problem. *My wife is already complaining that I always get to buy toys and she never gets anything*. I told her if she wanted to spend the money then she was going to have to do the tile job. I don't complain to her every couple weeks when she spends $30 bucks a shot getting her nails done because I know it makes her feel better about herself for some crazy reason. But I know if she outlayed $300 bucks for a something I'd be pretty ticked.


Good Grief.... do we have to do all the thinking for you??? 

Buy the lathe, wrap it in a nice package with a big ribbon and bow and surprise her with an early Christmas present!  Be sure and tell her that you are really looking foreward to the bonding time you will have with her as you spend scountless hours out in the shop together and would appreciate being allowed to borrow the lathe now and then yourself! :biggrin:

When you get the lathe and a few tools, hollar and I'll send you some blanks and slimline kits to help you get you started making some pens and bottle stoppers.


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## bdonald (Oct 4, 2008)

jleiwig said:


> Children!  Stop bickering.  It was ok to make a point but to keep going back and forth is like peeing into the wind.  I thank all of you for  your suggestions and I will take them to the CFO to see if she will release funding for a lathe purchase.  I may have even sold a pen to a guy at work just telling  him about them.  I also know a bunch of hunters who will buy pot calls and such when I start making those.



Well, I think <there goes that word again!> I see where Brandon25 is coming from.  It doesnt seem to matter where it started, just that the thread is almost hijacked <I say almost only because you did mention the grizzly in your original post> with the arguments and detracting from the original intent of the post.  I know that you were just looking for information on the best bang for the buck, and see what the rest of us had to throw in so that you could have some good intel to weigh your decision on.  I wont go any further because I feel, as Brandon stated, this would probably be best if moved to a private discussion between those involved, because as you stated about peeing in the wind, looks like the rest of us just happen to be standing downwind LOL.  Good job on selling a pen, and  looking forward to seeing the pot call pics posted, always wanted to make one of those.  Let us know what you and the better half decide!


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## bdonald (Oct 4, 2008)

Texatdurango said:


> Good Grief.... do we have to do all the thinking for you???
> 
> Buy the lathe, wrap it in a nice package with a big ribbon and bow and surprise her with an early Christmas present!  Be sure and tell her that you are really looking foreward to the bonding time you will have with her as you spend scountless hours out in the shop together and would appreciate being allowed to borrow the lathe now and then yourself! :biggrin:
> 
> When you get the lathe and a few tools, hollar and I'll send you some blanks and slimline kits to help you get you started making some pens and bottle stoppers.



Looks like we needed some humor to break it up in here, and that did it!  I've been tempted to do that, but have always been afraid of what MY Christmas present would be next year!


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## NewLondon88 (Oct 4, 2008)

bdonald said:


> I've been tempted to do that, but have always been afraid of what MY Christmas present would be next year!



Just be sure to remind her that you're a 'Summer' and it had better go with your shoes. :tongue:


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## jleiwig (Oct 4, 2008)

Texatdurango said:


> Good Grief.... do we have to do all the thinking for you???
> 
> Buy the lathe, wrap it in a nice package with a big ribbon and bow and surprise her with an early Christmas present! Be sure and tell her that you are really looking foreward to the bonding time you will have with her as you spend scountless hours out in the shop together and would appreciate being allowed to borrow the lathe now and then yourself! :biggrin:
> 
> When you get the lathe and a few tools, hollar and I'll send you some blanks and slimline kits to help you get you started making some pens and bottle stoppers.


 
She's a little lady, but I think she could lift it high enough to clock me on the head with it if I did that! :biggrin:

Thanks for the offer on the kits.


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## jleiwig (Oct 4, 2008)

bdonald said:


> Well, I think <there goes that word again!> I see where Brandon25 is coming from. It doesnt seem to matter where it started, just that the thread is almost hijacked <I say almost only because you did mention the grizzly in your original post> with the arguments and detracting from the original intent of the post. I know that you were just looking for information on the best bang for the buck, and see what the rest of us had to throw in so that you could have some good intel to weigh your decision on. I wont go any further because I feel, as Brandon stated, this would probably be best if moved to a private discussion between those involved, because as you stated about peeing in the wind, looks like the rest of us just happen to be standing downwind LOL. Good job on selling a pen, and looking forward to seeing the pot call pics posted, always wanted to make one of those. Let us know what you and the better half decide!


 
I'm not mad or anything and I hope that no one else is mad at me for my reply, I just think it's pointless. Make your point once and move on.  Stop going back and forth..that's all I asked. 

Thanks for all the positive kudos sent my way all!


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