# Equipment Opinions



## designer (Jan 25, 2011)

Hello Everyone.  I have been looking at all the great posts and all the help that has been offered here.  Being new here and to pen turning, I hope to sponge some of this vast knowledge up.


 Being currently unemployed and a tight budget I need opinions as to what I need at a minimum to begin with.  Other than MM, bushings and CA that is.  So far I have slowly collected these tools.  


 Excelsior 10 X 18 lathe
 5 pcs set of Crown miniature turning tools
 WS3000 sharpener (could not afford a Tormek)
 Drill bits, blanks and 3 slimline kits (thanks to Landfill Lumber)
 Nobex Proman miter box


 Opinions on my list of additional needs here are what I am looking for.
 Pennstate chuck CUG3418CCX http://www.pennstateind.com/store/CUG3418CCX.html
 7mm barrel trimmer since I can't afford a belt sander
 1/2” drill chuck for the tail stock
 Mandrel and saver http://www.pennstateind.com/store/PKMS2SET.html


 Do I need the the dedicated jaws or will the chuck hold the blanks?  http://www.pennstateind.com/store/CJAWPEN.html


 All input is greatly appreciated by this newbie


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## hdtran (Jan 25, 2011)

designer said:


> Hello Everyone.  I have been looking at all the great posts and all the help that has been offered here.  Being new here and to pen turning, I hope to sponge some of this vast knowledge up.
> 
> 
> Being currently unemployed and a tight budget I need opinions as to what I need at a minimum to begin with.  Other than MM, bushings and CA that is.  So far I have slowly collected these tools.
> ...



Hello, designer, welcome to IAP!

Some comments:

It looks like you're planning to drill your blanks in the lathe.  That's a fine idea.  Your proposed chuck should do it.  The PSI website is almost correct:  The direct page to your chuck does not show that the #1 jaws will squeeze down on a blank (as opposed to expand out into a recess), but they will.  If you look at the catalog, it shows that the #1 jaws can hold a cylinder from 3/32" to 1 7/8".  This easily accommodates your typical 3/4" blank.

I don't know your lathe, but if the headstock has a Morse #2, then, the mandrel should be fine (ditto tailstock).  Ditto lathe tailstock chuck, if it's a Morse#2 chuck.

I prefer barrel trimmers to sanders for trimming barrels, frankly.  I'd spend the extra $ and get the carbide-tipped barrel trimming set.  You can reverse the trimmer, and glue some sand paper, if you're working with segments or inlays that will tear out.  The non-carbide trimmer will quickly wear when working harder woods, and it's a real pain to sharpen.  I normally clamp the blank in a vise (you could use a clamp and a tabletop) and use a handheld drill (cordless, low-ish speed) to trim barrels.

You didn't list a pen press.  For a large number of years (but few pens), I used a bar clamp to press my pens.  Then, I built my own pen press.  Then, my family gave me a Woodcraft pen press.  You may be able to use your lathe, but I'd buy a bar clamp.  No woodworker ever has enough clamps!

Nitrile gloves for handling CA; you can use the top of the CA bottle as your tube insertion tool; safety glasses (I personally prefer a faceshield).  These should also be on your list.

Again, welcome!


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## drphobus (Jan 25, 2011)

A drill press would be a advantage . You can get away with a normal drill, but would need to use larger wood size, as drill will wonder.


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## designer (Jan 25, 2011)

drphobus said:


> A drill press would be a advantage . You can get away with a normal drill, but would need to use larger wood size, as drill will wonder.



Unfortunately, I can't afford a drill press right now.  I am also in an apartment so besides not having a lot of room for a shop money is tight.  Yes, Still need a DC of some sorts too.

Yes, I forgot the Nitrile gloves.  I do have safety glasses and a face mask.  Thanks for the reminder of the mask.  I would have just grabbed my glasses and learned the hard way.

The late is an MT#2 on both ends and I do plan to drill on it since I already have it.

Fast answers.  Thank You.


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## OOPS (Jan 25, 2011)

Just for added thought--I HAVE a belt sander, yet I prefer to use the barrel trimmer.  At first, I HATED that barrel trimmer, because I was new to it and not really sure how to use it.  But by the time you've done a dozen pens or so, you learn that it is really quite a good tool.  Because money is tight, learn to use the trimmer, and save the $$$ for the other stuff you will need as you move forward.


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## jskeen (Jan 25, 2011)

I think you are well on the right track.  The chuck should be fine for anything you are likely to run into making pens.  I don't see that the dedicated jaws would be of great benefit for someone starting out.  You should be fine using the ones that come with the chuck until you get much farther along.  A penmill is pretty much necessary, but don't bother with all the different size shafts.  Once you get beyond the 7mm kits, you can make bushings for other size tubes with the one big thing you missed.  Spare tube sets!  Cheapest way to immediately improve your first few pens.  Buy several and practice before you take the step of dedicating a kit to a given blank.  Don't put a set of blanks you aren't thrilled with on a pen.  If a finished set of blanks is really not worth keeping, you can turn the wood back off the tubes and try again.  But turn lots of tubes and only put the best on a pen kit.  

The mandrel saver set looks to be a good price compared to an adjustable mandrel and a good 60 degree live center, but will not be as flexible in the long run.  If you get the latter and add a 60 degree dead center, you can finish your blanks between centers without sanding your bushings down, or gluing them to the mandrel (not that any of us ever did that) or getting metal dust from sanding them onto your blanks, and a host of other problems.  You can also turn the blanks between centers after you square the ends and check the size with calipers when you get tired of them being out of round, or not fitting the kit hardware exactly.  You can also do closed end pens on an adjustable mandrel.  

Not really mandatory stuff, but may make your first few pens better and more enjoyable.  And that's the point, really, is to have fun.


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## 1080Wayne (Jan 25, 2011)

A barrel trimmer is not necessary if your blanks are reasonably square on the ends . My procedure is to turn down to about 1/16 oversize , then sand the ends square by drawing the blanks toward me on a sheet of 100 grit sandpaper on a flat surface , rotating the blank a quarter turn each time . Takes a bit longer , but you will find there are issues with the trimmer too .

A small vise will work as a pen press , using a small pad of notepaper on one jaw to protect the most scratchable surface .

Would recommend ditching the miniature tools for regular ones .


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## designer (Jan 25, 2011)

OOPS said:


> Just for added thought--I HAVE a belt sander, yet I prefer to use the barrel trimmer.  At first, I HATED that barrel trimmer, because I was new to it and not really sure how to use it.  But by the time you've done a dozen pens or so, you learn that it is really quite a good tool.  Because money is tight, learn to use the trimmer, and save the $$$ for the other stuff you will need as you move forward.



With the carbide mill or trimmer on wood, am I correct planning on light pressure when using it?  I don't want to split the wood or have chatter marks either.


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## designer (Jan 25, 2011)

jskeen said:


> I think you are well on the right track.  The chuck should be fine for anything you are likely to run into making pens.  I don't see that the dedicated jaws would be of great benefit for someone starting out.  You should be fine using the ones that come with the chuck until you get much farther along.  A penmill is pretty much necessary, but don't bother with all the different size shafts.  Once you get beyond the 7mm kits, you can make bushings for other size tubes with the one big thing you missed.  Spare tube sets!  Cheapest way to immediately improve your first few pens.  Buy several and practice before you take the step of dedicating a kit to a given blank.  Don't put a set of blanks you aren't thrilled with on a pen.  If a finished set of blanks is really not worth keeping, you can turn the wood back off the tubes and try again.  But turn lots of tubes and only put the best on a pen kit.
> 
> The mandrel saver set looks to be a good price compared to an adjustable mandrel and a good 60 degree live center, but will not be as flexible in the long run.  If you get the latter and add a 60 degree dead center, you can finish your blanks between centers without sanding your bushings down, or gluing them to the mandrel (not that any of us ever did that) or getting metal dust from sanding them onto your blanks, and a host of other problems.  You can also turn the blanks between centers after you square the ends and check the size with calipers when you get tired of them being out of round, or not fitting the kit hardware exactly.  You can also do closed end pens on an adjustable mandrel.
> 
> Not really mandatory stuff, but may make your first few pens better and more enjoyable.  And that's the point, really, is to have fun.



What about waxing the mandrel and bushings?  I do that when laminating fishing rod handles so glues do not stick.  In order to keep from sanding the blocks I use I put a piece of wood laminate on the ends of the grips I make.  Is there any reason I cannot do that when I sand and finish pens or pencils?


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## jskeen (Jan 25, 2011)

designer said:


> What about waxing the mandrel and bushings?  I do that when laminating fishing rod handles so glues do not stick.  In order to keep from sanding the blocks I use I put a piece of wood laminate on the ends of the grips I make.  Is there any reason I cannot do that when I sand and finish pens or pencils?



Sure, you can do both, and if you are consistent with it, it will work just fine.  We tend to get lazy after doing this stuff for a while and look for the easy way to do things.


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## mtgrizzly52 (Jan 25, 2011)

If you send me a PM with your shipping address, I'll send you the spare 1/2" drill chuck I have. It is mounted on a MT #2 mandrel. The mandrel is a bit long, but I've used it on a couple of mini-lathes with no problem. I'll also send you a few blanks and such to help get you started.

Rick (mtgrizzly52)


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## dow (Jan 25, 2011)

I'd like to echo 1080Wayne. Don't get the mini tools.  Get regular, full size turning chisels.  If money is tight, you can get a good starter set from Harbor Freight.  I got the red handled ones, and they're fine.  High speed steel and great for the money.  I think that I gave about $50-60 for the set of eight chisels, which will give you everything that you'll reasonably need except for a bowl gouge.  With full size tools, you can turn pretty much everything from toothpicks up.  With mini tools, you're pretty much stuck with small stuff.


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## hdtran (Jan 25, 2011)

designer said:


> OOPS said:
> 
> 
> > Just for added thought--I HAVE a belt sander, yet I prefer to use the barrel trimmer.  At first, I HATED that barrel trimmer, because I was new to it and not really sure how to use it.  But by the time you've done a dozen pens or so, you learn that it is really quite a good tool.  Because money is tight, learn to use the trimmer, and save the $$$ for the other stuff you will need as you move forward.
> ...



Yes, use a handheld cordless drill if you have it.  For me, my inexpensive black & decker cordless is great.  I can make holes in my walls, unscrew my cabinet door handles, etc.  Basically, clamp the blank (w/ tube glued in), insert the trimmer in the tube, start the drill, and lower into the wood.  With a freshly sharpened mill, you get nice shavings immediately.  With carbide, your sharp mill stays sharp, even after cutting through epoxy goop & hard woods.  Basically, the pressure is about the weight of the cordless drill.  You get pretty good control hand-held; you can apply a bit more pressure or less, stop the drill, & lift to see if the blank is at the level of the brass tube.

One thing that I do (I don't know that it makes a difference, but it makes me feel better):  I generally use epoxy to glue in my tubes.  When I insert the tube, its barely inside the blank on the side it's inserted (1/32 to 1/16 deep inside the hole).  I then use my epoxy mixing stick (take out chopsticks are good if you're too cheap to buy craft tongue depressor sticks) and swab the top of the blank.  The epoxy soaks a bit into the end grain and hardens the end grain.  I like that on the sides where the pen twists against the center band.


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## Dave Turner (Jan 25, 2011)

Just plan on turning between centers and buy a 60 degree dead center and 60 degree live center. This saves you the cost of a mandrel and you don't have to buy any bushings. Just buy a $12 digital caliper from Harbor Freight. 

Also, I really like using my disc sander to square the ends of the blanks instead of a pen mill. It cost $50 on sale at Harbor Freight. It can also be used to sand the corners on blanks to save you time turning. As a economic alternative, use your lathe as a disc sander. Hold the blank perpendicular to the disc using your Jacobs chuck in the tail stock and the blank slid over an appropriate sized transfer punch (punch set about $10 at Harbor Freight).

Dave

P.S. For pen turning, a carbide tipped tool such as a Woodchuck Pen Pro or one of the many similar tools out there would be high on my list.


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## designer (Jan 25, 2011)

Dave Turner said:


> Just plan on turning between centers and buy a 60 degree dead center and 60 degree live center. This saves you the cost of a mandrel and you don't have to buy any bushings. Just buy a $12 digital caliper from Harbor Freight.
> 
> Also, I really like using my disc sander to square the ends of the blanks instead of a pen mill. It cost $50 on sale at Harbor Freight. It can also be used to sand the corners on blanks to save you time turning. As a economic alternative, use your lathe as a disc sander. Hold the blank perpendicular to the disc using your Jacobs chuck in the tail stock and the blank slid over an appropriate sized transfer punch (punch set about $10 at Harbor Freight).
> 
> ...



Dave, Thanks for the sander suggestion.  I don't want to spend the 50 bucks on a sander right now, but using the lathe as a disc sander works for me.  I think I will turn a mandrel for this use from aluminum tomorrow. I already have about 4 pair of calipers so that is not a problem.  Being from the fastener industry, I am used to metal not wood.  I will as soon as I can upgrade to carbide anyplace I can.  I am already looking at making a pen trimmer with 4 or 6 carbide bits.  I think I can make it pretty easily.


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## Russianwolf (Jan 25, 2011)

If it were me, I'd skip that scroll chuck in favor of a collet chuck.

Turn the blank round between centers to fit a collet then you can drill it on the lathe with much greater accuracy than a scroll chuck allows.

Then glue the tubes and return between centers to true it to the tubes (sometimes it will be dead on from the start, some times not so much, depends on the grain direction, drill bit sharpness, etc.) 

Then put back in the collet chuck and true the ends with a skew. (saves the need for the trimmer)

Forget the mandrel and go straight to turning between centers for all but 7mm kits. (you can turn any kit with stock bushing between centers except for the 7mm ones)

But this is what I'd do in your shoes.


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## Nate Davey (Jan 25, 2011)

I've migrated to doing just about everything on my lathe.  I've made a sanding disk that fits in my chuck jaws to square my blanks, drill my blanks holding the blanks with the chuck and drilling with the Jacobs chuck and turn between centers with JohnnyCNCs kit.  I have the bushings but with a cheap set of calipers and attention to detail you don't need them.


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## designer (Jan 25, 2011)

There are so many ways to skin a cat.  Russianwolf has a way that works  but sounds more experienced and professional than the level I am at.  

There  are lots of suggestions to using my lathe for just about everything  (which for reasons of money works for me).  After some of the videos I  have seen, I am thinking of using it as a pen press as well with some  pieces of wood turned down for each end as push blocks.  Looking and  reading, I plan to move to turning between centers after I get some  experience.

Everyone has thrown out so much info that my notes  are growing rapidly.  I think as I start turning that everything will  fall into place.


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## hdtran (Jan 25, 2011)

Sounds like you're a metal machinist.  I have some metal shop experience.  I found that there were things woodturners would do that boggled my mind (riding the bevel, then, lifting the handle to bring the cutting edge into the part; rolling the tool; changing cutting angles so the skew goes from shearing to scraping; shearing cuts on the skew; sticking your fingers/hands into the workpiece to sand; etc.).  I'm still a novice, but I have to say that you'll have a blast!

Stay safe, and have fun!


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## Dave S (Jan 26, 2011)

Your about an hour and a half from me, If you like PM me and well work out a time you can come to my shop and "play" for a few hours or so, I have probably all the above mentioned stuff (and then some) that way you can see what works for you, save some time and a lot of money buying the wrong stuff. I don't have a lot of experence in pen making but I make about 8 or 10 a week and have all kinds of equipment to play with
Dave


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## jskeen (Jan 26, 2011)

Dave S said:


> Your about an hour and a half from me, If you like PM me and well work out a time you can come to my shop and "play" for a few hours or so, I have probably all the above mentioned stuff (and then some) that way you can see what works for you, save some time and a lot of money buying the wrong stuff. I don't have a lot of experence in pen making but I make about 8 or 10 a week and have all kinds of equipment to play with
> Dave



Now that is an offer you really should try hard to take advantage of.  You can read and look and ask questions for weeks, but you will learn more in an hour of watching somebody do it and trying it yourself.  I was not fortunate enough to know anyone that turned when I first started, and I still have stuff I bought thinking I would need it and never used.  (not as much as I used to, but still have some)


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## designer (Jan 26, 2011)

@hdtran 
Yes, my back ground is in the metals area...and yes things are a LOT  different.  The one that amazes me is holding the workpiece while  cutting it off.  Do that on a metal lathe and you will either get red  meat for the dogs dinner or loose something completely.  I have a learning curve  to go thru for sure.

@daves  I will take you up on your offer.  I will PM you so we can set it up.  I appreciate your offer.

Allan


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## designer (Jan 28, 2011)

Well I ordered everything Wednesday based on all this great input from everyone here.  4 orders, 3 are already received.  Now if Pennstate will just ship my order from them.

Next step, visit a local turner and watch and learn.

Thank You All


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## LeeR (Jan 28, 2011)

If you did not order a pen press yet, I'd recommend getting a 1/2 ton arbor press. Smooth, powerful, and holds pen vertically, which for me made perpendicular alignment during pressing so much easier. Got mine for $35 at Harbor Freight. You will want to put a protective plastic pad on the ram (Delrin, UHMW, etc), although I pressed pens in a woodworker's vise at first, just using small pieces of plywood as the soft jaws. And you may need to fabricate a different base when pressing tall items. (I used aircraft grade plywood.) All is easy to do with normal woodworking tools. Several of the books on pen turning cover using an arbor press.


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## its_virgil (Jan 28, 2011)

Just remember that PSI is in the current snow belt and got hammered earlier this week. I placed an order this morning and it has already shipped so they are back up and running.
Do a good turn daily!
Don



designer said:


> Well I ordered everything Wednesday based on all this great input from everyone here.  4 orders, 3 are already received.  Now if Pennstate will just ship my order from them.
> 
> Next step, visit a local turner and watch and learn.
> 
> Thank You All


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## designer (Jan 28, 2011)

Lee, I grabbed a couple of scrap pieces of UHMW from work.  They were relining a couple of hoppers.  Nice timing.  I have a clamp to start with and I may try using my lathe too if they assemble easy enough.

Don, I feel better now.  I was getting concerned and almost ready to call and inquire.  Thanks for the reminder of the snow out there.  I wonder how many people did not make it to work for a few days there.......That'll put a hooker in the shipping.


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## designer (Feb 1, 2011)

I have finally received everything to get started!

I have a lot of pine that I will begin with.  Hey it was free.  If i blow it out, oops.  I have some hardening in soap and water.  I Hope what I read was right.  If not, it is free wood anyway.


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