# What all taps are needed to make pens?



## Joebobber (Nov 20, 2020)

I am thinking about advancing into makining my own fountain pens.  I know you need specific taps for each companies nibs you are going to use, but what else am I going to need as far as taps/dies go?  Cap threading/ body threading?


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## eharri446 (Nov 20, 2020)

There have several posts dealing with that information. However, in a nut shell you will be taps for the Bock #5 and #6, and Jowo #5 & #6 if you plan to use those two most commonly used vendors. Here is a list of the various taps and dies, and their cost, that many of us have purchased: 


Triple lead taps and Dies1​2​3​6​9​12​24​M14-.8178.64​137.61​104.39​80.41​69.19​5,808.00​51.81​M14-.8M13-.8 1pc162.40​125.10​94.90​73.10​62.90​52.80​47.10​M12-.8159.00​121.90​91.50​68.40​563.00​48.40​43.20​M11-.8158.00​119.80​89.50​63.45​53.45​44.10​37.70​Triple lead DiesM14-.8 HS 1"OD Die184.80​138.60​103.60​78.40​70.00​M14x.8 HS 1 1/2"OD Die204.10​165.10​126.10​89.70​80.60​M13-.8 HS 1"OD Die184.80​138.60​103.60​78.40​70.00​M12-.8 HS 1"OD Die184.80​138.60​103.60​78.40​70.00​M11-.8 HS 1"OD DIe184.80​138.60​103.60​78.40​70.00​SIngle lead tapsM6.4-.6 1pc125.00​90.20​61.90​40.15​26.15​22.45​18.40​M7.9-.6126.10​91.60​62.90​41.50​31.60​23.50​18.50​M6.5-.5125.00​90.20​61.90​40.15​26.15​22.45​18.40​M7.5-.5126.10​91.60​62.90​41.50​31.60​23.50​18.50​M8.5-1130.35​94.10​66.99​44.66​34.35​25.65​20.80​SIngle lead diesM8.5-1 HS 1"OID DIe131.60​99.40​74.20​56.00​50.40​

These taps and dies can be very expensive to purchase if you try to purchase them as an individual. However, there are periodically group buys put together to get them at a discounted price. The table above shows what one group buy got them for in 2017.

Having given you the bad news first, let me give you some good news. You can use standard single start metric taps and dies for the body, cap, and sections. One document available in the library show a member using a triple (Nib, feed, and housing) for a Cigar pen kit which has a thread of M10X1.

My recommendation would be to get the single start taps and dies and use them first to see if you really want to make what we term as kit less pens. It will be much cheaper if you decide that these types of pens are not for you.


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## Wayne (Nov 20, 2020)

Elwin,

This is a great post, I'd like create a article with this and place it in the LIbrary.

Comments, Ideas?


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## eharri446 (Nov 20, 2020)

I have no issue with that idea. I was trying in this post to give an idea as to how expensive buying the tooling for making kit less pens is, and showing that there is another option, even if it is not the one everyone likes.

Also, the price for the M14x.8 triple lead tap when the quantity being order is greater than and equal to 12 and less than 24 should be 58.08 not 5808.00.


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## Don Rabchenuk (Nov 21, 2020)

There are a few for sale here on the forum.
Used Tapco HSS M11x.8 Triple Lead Tap/Die Set | The International Association of Penturners


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## bmachin (Nov 21, 2020)

Prices on the Bock and Jowo taps appear are, I assume, based on group buys from Tapco or similar. I don't know if there are still domestic retailers for those taps or not, although there used to be. 

Taps for Bock nibs are available here (priced in British Pounds):






						Beaufort Ink - Thread taps for Bock fountain pen nibs
					

Thread taps for Bock fountain pen nibs




					www.beaufortink.co.uk
				




Beaufort also sells some triple lead taps and dies.

Taps for both Bock and Jowo are available here (priced in Euros):









						TAPS
					

We are specialized in providing the widest range of fountain pen nibs and customize them to your requeriments.




					fpnibs.com
				




Really quick estimation puts US dollar price at around 35-40. No idea what shipping might be.

You might check with Brian at Meisternibs to see if he knows of a source fo Jowo taps. Don't know who the importer for Bock is.

One nib that is rarely mentioned is Schmidt. Richard Greenwald sells several different models and he generally has the necessary taps in stock although you may need to call him to figure out which tap you need for which nib. They are quality products.






						Convertors, Sacs, Front Sections Archives - Richard L Greenwald LLC
					

Everything required to make or repair the mechanics of your fountain pen. Converters, Pistons, Sacs, J-Bars, Pressure Bars, Sac Cement, and so much more….




					richardlgreenwald.com
				




 Hope this is useful.

Bill


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## Joebobber (Nov 21, 2020)

Yeah i saw them and wanted to buy them but I had no clue as to what a person needs.  


djrljr said:


> There are a few for sale here on the forum.
> Used Tapco HSS M11x.8 Triple Lead Tap/Die Set | The International Association of Penturners


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## Joebobber (Nov 21, 2020)

bmachin said:


> Prices on the Bock and Jowo taps appear are, I assume, based on group buys from Tapco or similar. I don't know if there are still domestic retailers for those taps or not, although there used to be.
> 
> Taps for Bock nibs are available here (priced in British Pounds):
> 
> ...


Yes bill, Thank you!


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## Joebobber (Nov 21, 2020)

eharri446 said:


> There have several posts dealing with that information. However, in a nut shell you will be taps for the Bock #5 and #6, and Jowo #5 & #6 if you plan to use those two most commonly used vendors. Here is a list of the various taps and dies, and their cost, that many of us have purchased:
> 
> 
> Triple lead taps and Dies1​2​3​6​9​12​24​M14-.8178.64​137.61​104.39​80.41​69.19​5,808.00​51.81​M14-.8M13-.8 1pc162.40​125.10​94.90​73.10​62.90​52.80​47.10​M12-.8159.00​121.90​91.50​68.40​563.00​48.40​43.20​M11-.8158.00​119.80​89.50​63.45​53.45​44.10​37.70​Triple lead DiesM14-.8 HS 1"OD Die184.80​138.60​103.60​78.40​70.00​M14x.8 HS 1 1/2"OD Die204.10​165.10​126.10​89.70​80.60​M13-.8 HS 1"OD Die184.80​138.60​103.60​78.40​70.00​M12-.8 HS 1"OD Die184.80​138.60​103.60​78.40​70.00​M11-.8 HS 1"OD DIe184.80​138.60​103.60​78.40​70.00​SIngle lead tapsM6.4-.6 1pc125.00​90.20​61.90​40.15​26.15​22.45​18.40​M7.9-.6126.10​91.60​62.90​41.50​31.60​23.50​18.50​M6.5-.5125.00​90.20​61.90​40.15​26.15​22.45​18.40​M7.5-.5126.10​91.60​62.90​41.50​31.60​23.50​18.50​M8.5-1130.35​94.10​66.99​44.66​34.35​25.65​20.80​SIngle lead diesM8.5-1 HS 1"OID DIe131.60​99.40​74.20​56.00​50.40​
> ...


Thank you so much!


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## eteska (Nov 22, 2020)

I too am thinking about trying my hand at kit less pens. I appreciate all the help I can get. I just placed an order for a few of the schmidt fountain pen nib units, matching cartridge rollerball, grip sections, and the corresponding tap. I plan to try my first ones with the snap caps that come with as I do not have any triple start tap and dies yet. Guess we will see how it goes..


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## Joebobber (Nov 22, 2020)

I guess I am wondering what tap/die set is mostly used for the cap, body, nib, and feeder?


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## bmachin (Nov 22, 2020)

I think that you have the cart way before the horse. There is more to kitless pens than just taps and dies.

My suggestion (for the 345th time) is to buy this book:






						The Pen Turner's Bible: The Art of Creating Custom Pens: Kleinhenz, Richard: 9780941936613: Amazon.com: Books
					

The Pen Turner's Bible: The Art of Creating Custom Pens [Kleinhenz, Richard] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. The Pen Turner's Bible: The Art of Creating Custom Pens



					www.amazon.com
				




It has a step-by-step plan (with drawings) for making a kitless, clipless pen with a list of all the tooling necessary. As I recall, in terms of taps and dies it uses a single start 1/2-28 or 1/2-32 tap and die and a 10mm-1 tap and die along with a few drills. You will of course need to make a couple of mandrels. The nib assembly used is the Berea/El Grande

I am assuming that you are working with a wood lathe. Check out the videos from Steve4948 on YouTube. He shows making a kitless pen on a wood lathe as well as making mandrels on a wood lathe.

Believe me the book is worth the 17 buck price of admission.

Bill


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## eteska (Nov 22, 2020)

Believe me the book is worth the 17 buck price of admission.

Bill[/QUOTE]


Definitely worth the money. I have it on kindle. Have read it twice and referenced several parts multiple times!



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## Joebobber (Nov 22, 2020)

I have made pens that I needed to make mandrels for.  A few didn't have tubes.  I've made capless (i think they are called) as well.  Basically I  am understanding that I could use whatever I wanted to put threads in the cap and pen body, but best option would be to measure the nib with calipers and go from there.


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## bmachin (Nov 22, 2020)

Joebobber said:


> I have made pens that I needed to make mandrels for.  A few didn't have tubes.  I've made capless (i think they are called) as well.  Basically I  am understanding that I could use whatever I wanted to put threads in the cap and pen body, but best option would be to measure the nib with calipers and go from there.


Sorry for jumping to conclusions. This might be of some help. Seven years or so ago when first started thinking about kitless pens, the canonical three start was 12x.08. IIRC nobody even talked about 11 or 13 or 14. So if you’re looking for an all around starter go with the 12 or the 13. Either will work with a 5 or 6 nib. The 13 will give you a bit more flexibility. I would stay away from the 11 and 14. 

Bill


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## Joebobber (Nov 23, 2020)

bmachin said:


> Sorry for jumping to conclusions. This might be of some help. Seven years or so ago when first started thinking about kitless pens, the canonical three start was 12x.08. IIRC nobody even talked about 11 or 13 or 14. So if you’re looking for an all around starter go with the 12 or the 13. Either will work with a 5 or 6 nib. The 13 will give you a bit more flexibility. I would stay away from the 11 and 14.
> 
> Bill


Thank you  Bill, i really appreciate that information!


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## chris_11 (Jan 4, 2021)

Hello,

does anyone have experience with milling the tap on a CNC mill with thread-whirling? That should be a lot cheaper since you do not need those expensive dies. A single whirling tool should do for both sides.

BR
Christian


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## TurnTheWorldAround (Aug 6, 2022)

I have been turning Pens since 2008 and have been doing the standard glue/epoxy tube with all sorts of Pen Kits using bushings.  Kitless pen making has been a growing desire for many years and it is time for me to give it a try.  I do have Richard Kleinhenz Pen Turner's Bible and a very useful guide.  The youtube videos are very useful and great to see the diverse ways that different people go about solving problems and different techniques, a big shout out to #RJBWoodTurner on youtube for some great videos.  I have done some simple videos and it takes a ton of work so my hat is off to you RJB hope to meet you someday.

Here are my questions:
1. I am stuck on tap and dies.  Mainly on the price of the ones I think I should get.  I get everything else pretty well with the kitless process, I am sure once I am hands-on there will be many "learning opportunities".  I understand basic principles with tap and dies but I don't understand the price difference with the ones I believe I may need.
2. Is the quality really that different? 
3. What is the core difference between the high-end Tapco tap/dies? (I believe I understand the difference between triple start compared single start.  Is the machining of these Tapco Tap/Dies really that superior we are cutting fairly soft material compared to what you would normally cut with a tap/die)
4. I am also needing a good starting point and then expand as I grow into kitless.  What would be the best starting point from a standpoint of a set of Tap/Die/Jowo/Bock sizes I should start with where I can hone my skills and then expand into other sizes later?  From what I see it is going to be a $ 600-ish investment for a good set of tap/die tools and size just to get entry into kitless.  I am looking at getting the right setup first and not having to buy something I don't need or something that just does not work.
5. Jowo or Bock?  Is there a good guide on what the difference is between Jowo and Bock?  Advantage Disadvantage?

Here is what I think I am going to start with and please comment whether it may be a good starting place or not:
1. Tapco M13 Tap/Die Triple Start paired/set ~$229.00
2. Jowo #6 Tap 7.4-.5 ~$46.00 (I believe these will be always single start taps?)

I believe the most expensive thing you can do is buy the cheapest thing and then not have it work throw it away than buy the right thing.

Thank you for your help!
Andy


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