# your reply please



## phillywood

Recently, in a thread which was generated by a very new member in Trades and Giveaways some of the generous members here got taken by sending supplies and kits to this none-true member and we caught on to it. In a large replies to that thread Curly ( IAP member) suggested that we check by going and verifying the need of the next person before we start helping out. would you please vote your opinion as if you are pro or against this idea.




Curly said:


> I don't know how this particular story may play out, but I have a suggestion for future requests of this sort. With the large number of members on this forum the next time someone unknown to the membership asks for donations. One of the members living closest to the requester goes to visit them and verify the need. If it is genuine, help will be offered, if not then the forum members good will isn't taken advantage of.
> 
> Pete


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## Daniel

I voted yes although I am not sure sending someone would always be necessary. I think that some form of verification of the need is only wise and someone paying a visit is about as good as that can get.


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## Drstrangefart

I tossed a yes up there. If someone legitimately needs help especially with something that's at least partly recreational, they should be willing to talk to someone in person. If they won't, it's probably a bad idea.


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## jskeen

I voted yes, but with a caveat, if somebody wants to go check it out, fine.  If not, but the requester can supply some supporting info, that works as well in my book.  I'm not suggesting that we ask for a note from the Dr's office, just some pictures of past work, a link to some pictures of items for sale somewhere, a pic of the person in their shop, something like that.  I know, none of that is definitive, it could be faked with some effort, but a scam artist is unlikely to make the effort, and a genuine new member would probably be happy to show off something they have done.  I suspect that this idea may very well be implemented all by itself, without any need for a rule or whatever, just on the principle of "once bitten, twice shy"  

I do not believe that one bad experience will sour this wonderful group on helping those who genuinely need help, or even those who just would like to learn and are interested in becoming part of our little community.


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## witz1976

I don't think it is up to the IAP as a whole to see if a person is legit or not simply because we are not donating as a whole.

Kinda goes with the buyer beware warning....giver beware.

*Edit*  As a caveat, if the mods want to modify the rules in the trades and giveaways specifying requirements for donations then so be it.


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## Texatdurango

Several years ago I attended a local "Bubbasville" meeting where I met my first pen turners from the Dallas/Ft Worth area face to face. At that meeting a turner offered me some blanks for free to practice on since he had no use for them. I opened the box and....... what a mess, the blanks were knarly and twisted and basically useless for anything but fire kindling!

The reason I mention that here is that he bought the blanks from an IAP member who advertised one thing and shipped another and he could never get his money back from the character, who is still a member here and is still selling blanks! 

How does this fit in with this story, well, the sad thing is that regardless of how vigilant we are in life, there always has been and always will be those willing to take advantage of others, any which way they can and the internet has just made it so much easier for unscrupulous people to prey on others and believe it or not, regardless of how we see our "family" the IAP has it's share of these people as members.

Rather than sending out a "verification party" to check out new members who post questionable posts, why not just use common sense and think before jumping in with everyone else to welcome a new member and shower them with care packages after their first post.

Don't worry, the truly needy folks will continue to be taken care of!


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## skiprat

I voted 'No'

I would neither like to be the person doing the 'inspection' nor the person being inspected. 

If I was unfortunate enough to need help from my friends here on IAP, then I like to think that they would now know me well enough by now and not to have to check up on me. 

If I hadn't been here long enough, or at least contributed in some way, then I wouldn't deserve any help. 

There have been a few one shot con artists here ( remember that dodgy pic of the soil under the house? ) and we still have one guy that only comes here to plead poverty and beg for free stuff. I'd pay him a visit, but he would only get my boot!!
Strange how they all have enough money for a computer with internet connection though. :wink:


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## Padre

I voted yes, but also with a caveat.  If the asker is a long time member of the IAP, known to us, then no.  If a 'newbie' that is posting for the first time, etc., then yes.


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## snyiper

I voted no as well but I would think that a person would be more active in the forum than on their first or second post asking for help or donations. If they havent posted at least a couple dozen times asking about stuff then it starts to smell bad for me.


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## JimB

This is wrong on so many levels. Who are we to take it upon ourselves to do this? When you donate food or clothing etc to a charity do you ask to meet the family they are giving it to? Is this the way to greet new members? Are you going to ensure you treat everyone the same so we are not accused of discrimination? Who are the members who will have the final say about someone's need? What makes them qualified to make that decision? Since when is someone's need so obvious to the outside world? 

My list of questions goes on and on. We don't even do this for people who sell on here. 

Then there is a huge liability issue both for the person making the decision and posting it on IAP and for IAP. I don't think Jeff would never aprrove this.


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## Mark

I voted No. Shooting from the hip on one bad request, is something I can't support. I wouldn't think a rule of any kind is in order.. A gift is a gift. 

IMHO - a required visit is not right. If someone is close and wishes to do that, so be it. It's always nice to meet other turners. I can just imagine the PM's that would be flying around, if the visit couldn't be made until a weekend or at least several days.

A face to face, if convenient, would be nice for all members to feel warm and fuzzy about the request. I try not to inherently distrust anyone. I'd likely sit back and see what rolls out with the request then jump in when/if I was comfortable.. At that point if it goes downhill, well, my bad. Onward and upward.


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## Akula

Give from the heart.  Expect nothing in return.

Con artist are everyplace.  Lazy people even more.  We live within our bounds.  I have seen here when someone asks, there is usually a very good response.  When Kalai posted about the box of wood-pen trade, I jumped at the chance.  Kalai took a chance sending me some wood and I returned some pens.  Kalai didn't know me and I don't post that much.

My point is don't close your heart if giving is what you want to do.  When I can, I give.  Have some taken advantage of it, sure.  But I won't change because of them.

Maybe better if everyone didn't jump on the bandwagon.  Maybe limit to the first few to help and everyone wait for a response.  Then proceed with results.

It's a tough call for sure.  Some of the boards I'm on, once word gets out someone got some help, then we used to get flooded with needs, donation requests and benefits.  We had to slow down because over time people get burned out.  People would not help.  We ask now that requests be approved by Mods or Site Owners before just posting.  This slowed down all the requests and let the members better serve the people in need.

Well, that's about all my 2 cents worth.

Have a great day


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## Padre

Jim, 

No one has to physically go there, I agree, that would be a huge liability.  But I am a volunteer for Labs4Rescue and I do make home visits for those wanting to adopt a lab.  It is the right thing to do.

Furthermore, all legitimate 501-C3 charities MUST be audited every year.  Almost every major charitable organization is audited financially as well as their inventory.  That way people feel fairly safe that their money/goods go to where they are told they are going.  But what happens to those "charities" that keep 70% or more of the monies/goods they collect?  They become fodder for the newspapers and quickly go out of business or run and assume a different name.

Who are we?  We are a voluntary group of pen makers who spend their money on kits, blanks and other items in order to pursue our hobby/business.  I think if we give away our kits, blanks, tools and other things we should be able to have a reasonable assurance that what we are giving is:  a.  going to a worthy cause or individual  and b. going to an organization/individual who actually is in need.  Do you really think that is too much to ask?

What if the Marines took the "Toys for Tots" merchandise and sold them to make money for themselves?    What if the pens we make for "turning for troops" end up on Ebay, sold by the person 'organizing' the event?  Or how about donating for Cody on Penefit.org and having the proceeds go to the person organizing the event to support an abuse habit?  *Now, NONE OF THESE THINGS HAVE HAPPENED OR WILL HAPPEN*, but what if they did?  Would you then feel differently about someone who comes on here, posts 1 or 2 posts, asks for 'help,' is sent hundreds of dollars of items, then disappears and may be a fraud?

Just wondering.


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## IPD_Mrs

Texatdurango said:


> Rather than sending out a "verification party" to check out new members who post questionable posts, why not just use common sense and think before jumping in with everyone else to welcome a new member and shower them with care packages after their first post.
> 
> Don't worry, the truly needy folks will continue to be taken care of!


 
Bingo, Duh and whatever other noise you want to make.  There is a huge difference between a newbie coming on asking for some help and someone that we have all known for years on here that needs some help.

Just use some common sense.  If you want to send to a newbie, then do so smartly.  Send a small amount and because you want to.  Honestly there are times that we get more out of giving than the recipient does.  

Also, just because you did not get a thank you doesn't always mean something bad other than manners.  Most of us on here are from the "Greatest Generation" :tongue:  Many are war babies from WWII.  These are the folks that have top notch manners and hearts.  Somewhere along the line that didn't always pass down the the Gen X and Gen Y.


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## Simplex

I think that people need to use their judgment.  If you are comfortable donating, do it.  If not, don't.  IAP does not need to get into policing donation requests.


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## maxwell_smart007

The IAP cannot be verifying and legitimzing requests for help.  This is exactly why there's no longer the fledgling 'persons in need' forum, which was removed a long while back.  

If you wish to donate to a person in need, use your judgement and decide for yourself.  The IAP does not condone or verify any donation requests.  

In a practical sense, those of you that live in cities don't seem to realize that we're international, and include rural and remote turners in our midst, so 'verification parties' are not at all practical or advised.  Donations are certainly caveat empire.  

Maybe consider donating to a registered charity instead, and help people out that way...


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## wolftat

No one is being forced to donate anything, if you don't want to donate, then don't. If the person asking is a scam artist, they will get caught up in their own actions sooner or later, maybe by the wrong person at the wrong time.

Over the summer I had a young man come to my door selling magazines in order "to support himself while he went through Marine boot camp" he told my wife. She asked him to wait a minute and asked me to come to the door and talk to this person. He actually had the nerve to show me a obviously fake military ID that was in terrible shape from "the stress it took while in combat". I tore up his ID and advised him if I ever found out he was trying this again I would beat him silly. I also took all the checks he had and his list of customers and called them up to let them know they were scammed. The local police were also notified and after combing the area, they could not find him. He just picked the wrong door to knock on and got caught. (for those of you that don't know me, look at my profile and you will understand how I knew he was a fake).

Just use your own judgement and if you are in doubt, stay away from it.


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## MesquiteMan

Any OFFICIAL IAP SANCTIONED fundraiser or benefit will be properly vetted.  All others are allowed simply as a courtesy to our members and as such, are the full responsibility of the member doing the asking as well as the member doing the donating.  ALL requests that are suspected of being fraudulent will be removed as necessary.  IAP had NOTHING to do with requests for help just as we have nothing to do with stuff for sale. 

There has not been an official IAP sanctioned fundraiser or benefit in a long time.  Even the Penefit.org benefit was not an Official IAP endeavor but was fully vetted.  Just use your best judgment and if it smells bad, it is probably rotten!


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## witz1976

MLKWoodWorking said:


> Texatdurango said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rather than sending out a "verification party" to check out new members who post questionable posts, why not just use common sense and think before jumping in with everyone else to welcome a new member and shower them with care packages after their first post.
> 
> Don't worry, the truly needy folks will continue to be taken care of!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bingo, Duh and whatever other noise you want to make.  There is a huge difference between a newbie coming on asking for some help and someone that we have all known for years on here that needs some help.
> 
> Just use some common sense.  If you want to send to a newbie, then do so smartly.  Send a small amount and because you want to.  Honestly there are times that we get more out of giving than the recipient does.
> 
> Also, just because you did not get a thank you doesn't always mean something bad other than manners.  Most of us on here are from the "Greatest Generation" :tongue:  Many are war babies from WWII.  These are the folks that have top notch manners and hearts. * Somewhere along the line that didn't always pass down the the Gen X and Gen Y.*
Click to expand...


I am glad you said it didn't *always* get passed down...I am a Gen Xer and I try to uphold the manners I was taught from my grandparents.  That being said it really depresses me when I go, well, anywhere people are becoming more and more rude everyday:frown:


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## Hess

I voted NO  if I read something and it brings up a flag  that cool.  Are next time we members who felt is was odd should ba able to bring it up with not fear of being put down my any other member.

You cant have a cop squad  thats not right .  You read what they say if you cant see the problems and are not willing to listen to others who may see an issue, Well thats the old shame on me story.

I think there were some that saw this coming that did not post a warning in case they were wrong or getting Flamed

Next time simply slow down  a bit   feel them out  make them get to know us some,  look at the number of posts.  If they dont want to provide or provide miss info like this one  than maybe it will throw flags .


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## Donnie Kennedy

What puzzled me about the thread that spurred this one is that someone from the ether just popped in and asked for "stuff" right off the bat and (what seemed like a lot to me) people jumped at the opportunity. *It speaks volumes about the character and good will of the folks that pitched in to help*, but maybe just a little individual discretion would be more effective than a verification process. Besides, how can you verify the needs of virtually anonymous people anyway?

And just for the record, I have sent things (bowl blanks and videos mostly) to people that I interact with at online forums, so I am not one opposed to helping a brother or sister out when I can.


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## bobjackson

I have helped people starting out who can't afford to buy wood or blanks because I want to. I would help a disabled person who can't afford wood or blanks for the same reason. I don't knoe the level of their need or the legitamacy of their disability, but by the same token I'm only sending them a few dollars worth of stuff. Their disablilty also may not be real evident. I've seen many people with handicapped stickers on their car that look ok to me. Iwill still occasionally send stuff to pelple that ask nicely because I want to, not because I've verified their need. I will alaso say that most people I've sent stuff to have PMd me back with a thank you.


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## Toni

You would have one hell of a time checking on someone such as myself living in New Zealand..Remember international site


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## KenBrasier

If someone expresses a need and I feel comfortable with their request, I'll respond by sending what I can.  I have probably been "had" in the past, but my ability to help someone in need, overrides any loses I may have had.  That being said, I'm not against "checking" to ascertain that persons needs.


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## Timbo

My vote would be no.  I see too many issues (most already stated) with trying to make a policy/process to control the possibility of someone taking advantage of our generosity.  It's up to each of us to make our own decision, based on our own judgment.  
That said, I see no problem with the IAP helping out by posting a set of "member developed" guidelines (NOT rules) to help folks in making a decision weather to send donations or not.  Basically, a "what to look out for", or "what questions you might want to ask" list.  Nothing exhaustive is needed, I'm sure our membership could come up with a very adequate 10 point list.  No one is required to use it, but it'll be there to reference if one wishes to use it.


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## RDH79

If a member lives close and would like to meet them then thats up to them. 
I have watched when someone asks for help alot of people respond. i have a couple times and received a nice Thank You note.  I think just sending a few things would be enough to start out. It will give them something to do and see if they really like to turn pens. If someone turns a couple pens and is able sell them then the money from the sale should buy them more kits or wood. Not cigarettes or beer.


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## bking0217

I can't vote one way or the other. I, myself, have asked for help in the past but my post count was almost 100 when I did. I think we all learned a valuable lesson with Tina. Be wary of new members with their hand out in their first post.


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## its_virgil

I do all of the official checking when traveling to New Zealand or Australia is involved.....go ahead and just ask for a donation!
Do a good turn daily!
Don

I didn't vote (and don't uaually vote in polls) but I think I will start a poll to put out feelers and test the waters to see if we want to shut dowm the poll forum. 



Toni said:


> You would have one hell of a time checking on someone such as myself living in New Zealand..Remember international site


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## ThomJ

Let your gut be your guide. If you donate to someone, that alone, whether you got bit or not should give you a good feeling glow


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## soligen

Any charity that gives to those in need has some sort of verification process. Now, the IAP is not a charity, but if someone in need asks for help, then I dont think they should have a problem validating it - may not take an in person visit, and I preach caution to my kits about meetings/person info to people in the internet in general, but some warm fuzzy that it is legit I think is in order.

I declined to vote - I need more than a first post to send something, but an in person visit may be too much.


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## randyrls

My idea is not to inspect, but to visit the person and help them to start out right.  There is nothing like being there and helping someone to start on the right foot.


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## phillywood

wholly smoke, I didn't even expect this kind of responses. First of all I didn't mean to insult anyone. And, by laws we can not ask someone specific Qsn.s about their disability. those of us who are disabled we know that is against ADA laws. My main concern was if we don't check this on a new person that comes and asks for this kind of help on the first post and then say that she was selling at the shows. Well, it didn't sound that impressive. 
I am just proposing that we be careful, so when a long time member who has been active and need help then they can step forward and ask for it. And, we should have in our resources to help instead of getting burned out and not having anything available for our good friends who may need our help.
I as well as very many others are on disability, but never we have asked for that kind of drastic request.


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## phillywood

randyrls said:


> My idea is not to inspect, but to visit the person and help them to start out right. There is nothing like being there and helping someone to start on the right foot.


Randy thanks for your suggestion, I am not on my good writing skill today that's exactly what I wanted to say.
You said it right. Today was one of those typical Mondays for me.


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## LEAP

I voted no, If I send a gift to someone it is because I am fortunate enough to be able to do so. If occasionally someone is less than honest, and it has happened to me, I hope that it is out balanced by those who actually do need a little help. If I can help a few people who really need it then it was worth the effort.


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## mywoodshopca

Personally, I had a bad feeling from that thread. I dont mind helping out turners as needed, but it seemed weird to have his/her/its first two posts asking for blanks and kits.

I think people need to use a little personal discretion as to sending packages off to brand new members like that one.

Perhaps its all on the up & up, but maybe not. We will really never know unless that user comes back and starts posting often and showing off work. 

Heck, after reading that thread, maybe we should be sending a few care packages off to their mailman. Bad enough with the extra workload due to holiday mail, this poor mailperson got swamped with heavy packages of wood and metals :biggrin:


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## el_d

I got no problem handing out a few blanks of zebrawood to any stranger. The more I know/like them the more I will give when possible. 

I give FOR myself, what happens afterwards is on the recipients head.


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## trickydick

I vote no. Feel good about giving to others.  There are still significntly less cheaters than actual folks in need.


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## mtgrizzly52

I voted shortly after this post was put up and after some real soul searching, had to vote no. I can see where some people can feel angry, take advantage of or even hurt, when a small minority attempts to take advantage of the generous and caring spirit of the members of this fantastic forum and I guess I can say, this wonderful family.

In spite of that, I still would hate to have to wonder any time someone asked for a favor or some help if they were legit, or trying to take advantage of me. I'd rather give freely of what I have and take a small chance then be suspicious of every request that is posted. Maybe that's a Pollyanna approach to life, but that is how my value system is built and I guess I'll take the chance, but I don't want people to be subjected to inspection because they have the courage to ask for a hand up; legit or not.

Rick (mtgrizzly52)


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## phillywood

jskeen said:


> I voted yes, but with a caveat, if somebody wants to go check it out, fine. If not, but the requester can supply some supporting info, that works as well in my book. I'm not suggesting that we ask for a note from the Dr's office, just some pictures of past work, a link to some pictures of items for sale somewhere, a pic of the person in their shop, something like that. I know, none of that is definitive, it could be faked with some effort, but a scam artist is unlikely to make the effort, and a genuine new member would probably be happy to show off something they have done. I suspect that this idea may very well be implemented all by itself, without any need for a rule or whatever, just on the principle of "once bitten, twice shy"
> 
> I do not believe that one bad experience will sour this wonderful group on helping those who genuinely need help, or even those who just would like to learn and are interested in becoming part of our little community.


James. I am hoping that the main message was not lost here,since the whole purpose is to eliminate the scam request. 
I know that many like to give without any attachments which I admire. I commend those who do it, and have no problem with that. I just wanted to send the message out there that this family's giving spirit is not to be taken advantage of.


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## phillywood

witz1976 said:


> I don't think it is up to the IAP as a whole to see if a person is legit or not simply because we are not donating as a whole.
> 
> Kinda goes with the buyer beware warning....giver beware.
> 
> *Edit* As a caveat, if the mods want to modify the rules in the trades and giveaways specifying requirements for donations then so be it.


Dan, I am with giving, and I don't think that Mods need to modify any rules. it's just our great giving spirit that wants to give and those who are indeed in need of it should benefit, not the scams.


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## greggas

I voted no.  Who are we to invade someone's privacy and decide weather or not they are worthy?  

If you do not feel comfortable giving to someone when they request it then don't.

I have been amazed during my 20 +/- months on IAP with  the generosity of many members. Many of you should be proud.  But I have also been equally amazed at times by how often folks have been taken by obvious free-loaders ( for lack of a better term).   

I have seen folks ask for handouts and then complain about what they received.  I have read posts where people stated that they had no money to buy kits, supplies, etc and in the same post state that they were selling at shows !??!  I would always say to myself If you cannot afford to go into business for your self don't go into business for yourself.  I even remember the guy last year who posted that he was looking for anything that we could give him because he was out of work and posted a week later that he was going on vacation.

I imagine our perception of this situation may be dependent somewhat on our life experiences and where we live.   I have lived in large cities in the northeast most of my life and have much experience with free-loaders, scam artists and thieves so perhaps I am more skeptical than most.  I also consider myself very hard working and proud and tend not to ask for help.  It is not a bad thing to ask for and not everybody that holds out a hand is scamming.  But if you are going to help out with folks that you have never met and do not know if they are even giving you a real name keep in mind that you run the risk of being played,

All that said I reiterate my original point that we really do not have the right to vet out weather someone is "in need" or not.  If you are not comfortable just don't do it and donate your time, money or whatever to a cause or person that you are sure of in your own area.


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## phillywood

skiprat said:


> I voted 'No'
> 
> I would neither like to be the person doing the 'inspection' nor the person being inspected.
> 
> If I was unfortunate enough to need help from my friends here on IAP, then I like to think that they would now know me well enough by now and not to have to check up on me.
> 
> If I hadn't been here long enough, or at least contributed in some way, then I wouldn't deserve any help.
> 
> There have been a few one shot con artists here ( remember that dodgy pic of the soil under the house? ) and we still have one guy that only comes here to plead poverty and beg for free stuff. I'd pay him a visit, but he would only get my boot!!
> Strange how they all have enough money for a computer with internet connection though. :wink:


 
Steven, you will not do either, you have proven yourself to be worthy of all. No one will check on you. I was just mentioning the people who jump put of the wood work and ask and never been around.
And. your last sentence is my exact point.


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## ctubbs

I voted 'NO' but I did offer help.  The decision to help or not is just mine and mine alone.  If I were to help someone in need, then it is between myself and that person.  If it is a few blanks, so what.  I blow $6 on a small flat rate box to ship a hand full of wood to someone.  The wood is free to me, local out of my back yard or scrap from somewhere I picked up.  If anyone here needs some, I am still more than willing to help.  Were we scamed?  WE may never know, but we were willing to offer what we had to help someone we did not know.  Charity is giving without any expectation of recognition or return.  If your neighbor needs food or clothing, take a box of the needed material to their door, knock and leave.  Do not stand there with your hand out waiting for them to come blubbering all over you with thanks.  That is a terrible way to embarrass your neighbor and gains you nothing.  If it is not charity, then why give it at all.  So we have been scammed, so what.  Grab your wounded pride, throw a bandage on it and go on to the next one.  Heck fire, I have blown up more blanks than I had packaged up for this one.  There, that is my rant for now.  Thanks to all for putting up with me tonight.  Oh yes, this is my opinion and it just isn't humble at all.
Charles


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## blade.white

I voted yes. If there is someone that lives in the same area and is willing they could pay a social visit. At least that's what we called it in the south. Get a better idea of how to best help the individual and a better understanding of the situation. If there is no one that lives close, give out of the goodness of your heart and hope it is received in good faith.


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## navycop

I vote no also. I hope that if I need wood, some one would help me. I am willing to pay shipping cost. It is easier to sent $5.00 for flat rate (or whatever it is now) an get a "ton" of wood then to pay $5.00 for one blank. Plus you have to factor in gas and the time driving...


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## jaywood1207

skiprat said:


> I voted 'No'
> 
> If I hadn't been here long enough, or at least contributed in some way, then I wouldn't deserve any help.



This is the point I think we all need to think about.  It's nice to offer and help out somebody but to be soooo generous to a person that registers and the first post is asking for handouts should be a red flag for everyone.  Get to know them first.  I could be wrong but I don't think anyone asking for handouts needs them to make a living which means it can wait until they are better known especially in the case of the recent one who is doing shows and making money and has all the equipment.  Common business sense says to reinvest some profits into more supplies to keep it going.


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## fernhills

Most requests are from an IAP member for someone in need and not the person who is receiving donations, he is not asking. I voted no, we are able to see a scam or not, in short order.  Carl


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## phillywood

well, I 'll appreciate the folks that would like to give and it doesn't matter to them if the recipient will take advantage of the gift and same to those who would be cautious when they give. It's all in the spirit of giving and that's what makes this group a very unique one as for the giving group. 
I am hoping that next time when some one is in need they would step forward and ask for our generosity knowing that we have good intentions and for them be wary that we'd know if they are up to a fraud.

Thanks to every one who voiced their opinion on this issue.


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## alphageek

phillywood said:


> witz1976 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think it is up to the IAP as a whole to see if a person is legit or not simply because we are not donating as a whole.
> 
> Kinda goes with the buyer beware warning....giver beware.
> 
> *Edit* As a caveat, if the mods want to modify the rules in the trades and giveaways specifying requirements for donations then so be it.
> 
> 
> 
> Dan, I am with giving, and I don't think that Mods need to modify any rules. it's just our great giving spirit that wants to give and those who are indeed in need of it should benefit, not the scams.
Click to expand...


I just want it made clear... the mods do NOT modify the rules... We just "enforce" them.   All rule changes come through Jeff.

Dean Charlier
Assistant Moderator


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## BKelley

I try to help those who are less fortunate than me.  If I do this then I've done right.
If it is a scam then that person will have to answer for his/her misgivings.  We don't need a police department to examine these request, do what you feel is right and you won't have any regrets.


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## Curtis

snyiper said:


> I voted no as well but I would think that a person would be more active in the forum than on their first or second post asking for help or donations. If they havent posted at least a couple dozen times asking about stuff then it starts to smell bad for me.


 

I feel the same. I am new to this site but I have done a lot of post. I would not expect you guys to send me anything if I posted once or twice.


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## ThePenWizard

I voted no, because it is up to you to use your best judgement if you want to help someone.  Once you give up your money it is no longer yours to worry about.  If that person uses it for good then you are richer and so is he.  If he uses it for the wrong purpose, his negativity will come back on him 10 fold.  All you have to worry about is did you do the right thing, and since you did, good things will happen to you.


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## jimm1

I went no, BUT, I also live by "It is better to give than it is to receive." 

Here is something else to ponder, how many contributions must a member have in order to ask for some help, 11?


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## jasontg99

skiprat said:


> I voted 'No'
> 
> I would neither like to be the person doing the 'inspection' nor the person being inspected.
> 
> If I was unfortunate enough to need help from my friends here on IAP, then I like to think that they would now know me well enough by now and not to have to check up on me.
> 
> If I hadn't been here long enough, or at least contributed in some way, then I wouldn't deserve any help.
> 
> There have been a few one shot con artists here ( remember that dodgy pic of the soil under the house? ) and we still have one guy that only comes here to plead poverty and beg for free stuff. I'd pay him a visit, but he would only get my boot!!
> Strange how they all have enough money for a computer with internet connection though. :wink:


 
Well said.  I voted no as well.


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## Scotty

Nope, if someone asks for help and you want to help, go ahead.  If you don't want to help, don't do it.  I would never go check someone out for asking for help.  I would try to contact that person privately and make my decission from that.  Shows poor taste to either go or ask someone to go check it out.  My $.02.


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## DocStram

*Wanted Free OneWay Lathe*

Can somebody please give me a new OneWay Lathe?  I prefer a Model 2436  but I guess a Model 2036 will do.   Please select one of the following  reasons for donating the lathe to me:

A. I am an old guy and us old people need all the help we can get.

B. I have a disability and us disabled people need handouts.

C. I spent all of my money on Lotus and Emperor Pen Kits and now I can't afford a lathe.

Thank you!
PS Please do not try giving me a PowerMatic 3520.  I don't mean to sound ungrateful but I really need a OneWay.


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## nava1uni

I think that a person gives or doesn't give based on what he/she is feeling.  I give because it feels good.  I still think that there seems to be an overreaction to this event.  People are assuming a lot without real facts.  I read that some people did get thank you notes.  Jeff's post stated that the woman had been ill.  Who are we to decide if she was sick enough to warrant help or anything.  I wish her well and hope that she recovers enough to post more.  However, if she has read the numerous posts she might just be scared off, even afraid, to post.  If it were me, I would hesitate to post as I would feel that I had already been judged and people were ready for a hanging.


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## AKPenTurner

Wow, Phillip, you're good at hitting the controversial subjects!!:biggrin::biggrin:

Anyway, I voted no as well. I agree with a lot of the posts here. We give because it is good to give. 
Now there is nothing at all wrong with being cautious, and in a lot of situations, it would be great if someone could go to the person's house, make a new friend, and introduce them to the pen making world...


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## Fred

IF this thread is about the one I think it is, then if one were to look back at the original request, then it would be the first and only post this individual made. No introduction, no "Hello!", no comments, nothing ... just send me stuff.

That right there made me suspicious enough to not send anything.

Maybe if any person who needs something would simply contact the local IAP chapter in their area, quite possibly some one of that membership might live near enough to do a 'drive-by' and put eyes on the requesting individual/ Take a goodie bag from the members ... something.

Or ...

Maybe a separate Forum topic area labled 'Donated Supplies Needed' (or something) could be used to identify the area of the local Chapter first and they could possibly contact the requesting individual. Then the rest of us could be contacted by a known chapter member and ask for 'stuff.'


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## robutacion

*How much "juice" have he got out of this orange...???*



nava1uni said:


> I think that a person gives or doesn't give based on what he/she is feeling.  I give because it feels good.  I still think that there seems to be an overreaction to this event.  People are assuming a lot without real facts.  I read that some people did get thank you notes.  Jeff's post stated that the woman had been ill.  Who are we to decide if she was sick enough to warrant help or anything.  I wish her well and hope that she recovers enough to post more.  *However, if she has read the numerous posts she might just be scared off, even afraid, to post.  If it were me, I would hesitate to post as I would feel that I had already been judged and people were ready for a hanging*.



While I agree and understand with your sentiment on the last part of your comment, I believe that, "Tina" is reading every bit of this and while one would thing that "she" could feel scared in saying anything now, I'm once again giving her the benefit of a doubt and invite her to clear/clarify/put on ease, the situation...!

"She" seemed strong enough to come up here, among strangers and ask for help, one would thing that coming on site again and say, sorry for not posting nor thanking everyone that sent me stuff, I've been unable to do so...!

Would this answer all the questions raised, definitively not, would this be enough to put the situation on ease, probably yes...!

There will be a number of us that would prefer a more "validating" answer from "her" but that is an issue that we have to live with...!

Was and has been this case handled probably, yes and no, there wasn't a lot more a I could have done from the very beginning, and I tried to spin the fleshing lights of caution to everyone with my approach.  Some may have respond accordingly and those are the ones that didn't lose anything nor are feeling scammed or betrayed about it, but make no mistake, I'm disappointed that I wasn't given (in my books) the opportunity to help someone in real need, I would be feeling a lot better with myself than, and after all this time and events, to be "inclined" to believe that I was right, unfortunately...!

There is no reward/award in getting to such conclusion and I would be much happier if I was proven wrong, wouldn't be the first time nor it will the last.  Modesty and life experience has tough me to be cautious and alert to the things I most despite, these cases are certainly badly ratted in my books and I would like to thing that I would prefer be part of the cure than the disease, which is allowing people to get away with it.

There is so far, and I'm not nor I ever accused "Tina" of being a "scammer", a few lessons to be learn for those that care, I certainly know and feel sorry for those that in the future will come to us for help.  This is obviously only applicable to those that we don't know or heard off, after all there is a common feeling of trust among those that daily (or close enough) maintain a presence in this community.  Sure, you don't need to post everyday to be know and trusted by others, this sentiment is rarely found in any other community forums and we should all be proud that we can still maintain this "in risk to extinction" behavioural attitude among us.

Will this be enough to scare away/off any other scammers ready to target our community...??? yes and no.  Is nothing worse for a scammer than being exposed, nothing worse is desired by other sacmmers than seeing a fellow scammer being exposed.  Will this case and the many discussions within, help to make some people more alert and less prone to be part of the problem, I sincerely hope so...!

Cheers
George


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## phillywood

AKPenTurner said:


> Wow, Phillip, you're good at hitting the controversial subjects!!:biggrin::biggrin:
> 
> Anyway, I voted no as well. I agree with a lot of the posts here. We give because it is good to give.
> Now there is nothing at all wrong with being cautious, and in a lot of situations, it would be great if someone could go to the person's house, make a new friend, and introduce them to the pen making world...


 


Fred said:


> IF this thread is about the one I think it is, then if one were to look back at the original request, then it would be the first and only post this individual made. No introduction, no "Hello!", no comments, nothing ... just send me stuff.
> 
> That right there made me suspicious enough to not send anything.
> 
> Maybe if any person who needs something would simply contact the local IAP chapter in their area, quite possibly some one of that membership might live near enough to do a 'drive-by' and put eyes on the requesting individual/ Take a goodie bag from the members ... something.
> 
> Or ...
> 
> Maybe a separate Forum topic area labeled 'Donated Supplies Needed' (or something) could be used to identify the area of the local Chapter first and they could possibly contact the requesting individual. Then the rest of us could be contacted by a known chapter member and ask for 'stuff.'


 Silas, I was not accusing anyone or saying if she did scammed us or not simply was trying to warn that we should be cautious. As far as controversial, I just asked for opinion and only the ones who wanted to participate, did so. I have been taken before and i am just cautious to give only to the ones that I know that really need it. Those who know me they know that I go way out of my way to help another person in need, and never ever expected anything in return, but I definitely will not give in to a person for using the gift for the wrong reasons or feed a bad habit. Read what I colored in red of what Fred said, that's the whole idea.


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## AKPenTurner

> Silas, I was not accusing anyone or saying if she did scammed us or not simply was trying to warn that we should be cautious. As far as controversial, I just asked for opinion and only the ones who wanted to participate, did so. I have been taken before and i am just cautious to give only to the ones that I know that really need it. Those who know me they know that I go way out of my way to help another person in need, and never ever expected anything in return, but I definitely will not give in to a person for using the gift for the wrong reasons or feed a bad habit. Read what I colored in red of what Fred said, that's the whole idea.


I'm not saying you're accusing anyone of any wrongs. The question you asked is completely appropriate, and is something we all need to think about, I'm also extremely cautious (probably more so than you), I very rarely participate in anything like this unless I am aware firsthand of the need.
Overall, I completely agree with you, it just surprised me that some folks seemed to get a little upset over this...


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## jonrms

I only voted no because of 2 reasons.. 1, why should we invade there space.. and priviacy. and the second is that I am in England who would come and visit me... although all are welcome!


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## phillywood

jonrms said:


> I only voted no because of 2 reasons.. 1, why should we invade there space.. and privacy. and the second is that I am in England who would come and visit me... although all are welcome!


I'd come and visit for good intentions and we go look for woods in the countryside, not for anything else. And, then for some English tea with milk in it. then we'll go to your shop and make some chips and saw dust.


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