# When do you say enough is enough???



## JAZNCARR (Jun 21, 2012)

I have had several customers call me with silly questions but this past week I've gotten some really stupid questions about my work.
A lady ( that is a school teacher) calls and say her pen doesn't work and It needs to be fixed immediately.  This lady called me Christmas eve day and asked If she could see what I had for last minute gifts... I thought hey i'll have a nice christmas bonus selling a pen or 2  last minute. She was very persnikity about the feel and weight of the pens and  she did buy 3  sets of slim lines for 130.00

She calls me and says the pen doesn't write and the pencil is broken.  My mom picks up the set adn brings it to me, After apologizing and stating I'd fix the  problems and get them back ASAP... This is what I found
the pen was broken....=OUT OF INK
the pencil was a clicker and she had twisted the end off and  didn't push the mechanism far enough to be able to screw the  tip back on...
Mind you I put a spare ink cartridge in the case for each set and i showed her how they were fixed in the parking lot... On christmas day and she still had the nerve to complain about the pen running out of ink.. I  couldn't call her an idiot   but jesus....

How much is enough???


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## seamus7227 (Jun 21, 2012)

Can't fix stupid, just sayin

Sent from my Epic using Forum Runner


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## jasontg99 (Jun 21, 2012)

Jason,

    I would kindly show her AGAIN, how to change the refill and correctly use the pencil.  You never know what good may come of it.  There is nothing wrong with being a little picky.  She probably just got frustrated with the items and forgot what you told her.  I know some people will never be happy, but she does not sound like one of those....yet.

Jason


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## Glen Schumann (Jun 21, 2012)

jasontg99 said:


> Jason,
> 
> I would kindly show her AGAIN, how to change the refill and correctly use the pencil. You never know what good may come of it. There is nothing wrong with being a little picky. She probably just got frustrated with the items and forgot what you told her. I know some people will never be happy, but she does not sound like one of those....yet.
> 
> Jason


 
+1

Suck it up and treat her well. Nothing to be gained the other way.


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## WWAtty (Jun 21, 2012)

I don't sell pens, but I make them to give away to friends, family and clients.  I print out a little set of instructions on a slip of paper to include with each one, stating the "care and feeding of your new pen." It tells how to protect it, replace the cartridge, etc.


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## Texatdurango (Jun 21, 2012)

I don't  get this post at all.

If you dislike dealing with people then perhaps selling them pens isn't your calling!

I don't understand why you are upset with her enough to call her an idiot.  Remember it was that idiot that brightened your Christmas day!  I'll bet you didn't call here an idiot then!


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## Smitty37 (Jun 21, 2012)

Yea, I have a policy of unconditional return if the buyer isn't happy for any reason or no reason at all.  Still I have buyers who if they want to return something feel the need to threaten me with dire consequences if I don't give them their money back....I really get a smile out of the ones that want their money back but tell me they will only return the product if I send them return postage with their refund.

I usually very politely tell them that they must return the product before I will issue a refund.  If they push it I remind them that it was not unsolicited merchandise and they are responsible for the return shipping.


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## Xander (Jun 21, 2012)

I'd tell her it's not a problem with the pen and she can go for a long walk on a short pier. (If you haven't guessed, I can't tolerate 'stupid')


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## EricJS (Jun 21, 2012)

Isn't it a shame that stupidity isn't painful?:biggrin:


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## The Penguin (Jun 21, 2012)

EricJS said:


> Isn't it a shame that stupidity isn't painful?:biggrin:


it is when you thump the stupid one on the head.

the really dumb ones sound hollow - like a ripe watermelon.


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## JAZNCARR (Jun 21, 2012)

Texatdurango said:


> I don't get this post at all.
> 
> If you dislike dealing with people then perhaps selling them pens isn't your calling!
> 
> I don't understand why you are upset with her enough to call her an idiot. Remember it was that idiot that brightened your Christmas day! I'll bet you didn't call here an idiot then!


 
You don't get the lady was ****y because she was too stupid to recognize the pen was empty...  She  acted like the pen running out of ink was my fault....
I dealwith the publicwell....  I just don't tolerate stupidity well


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## Dave Turner (Jun 21, 2012)

Whether someone spent $130 or $50, I feel they've purchased as much support as they require. Some will need more hand-holding than others. If support becomes a burden for me, then I'd be more than happy to refund their money, including return shipping, if they desire.

I don't depend on the income from sales and do a small volume, so a large "money-making" pen business might need a different policy.


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## Grizz (Jun 21, 2012)

Public School teacher was all you had to say.  

( present company excluded :wink: )


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## nava1uni (Jun 21, 2012)

I must say that I find most of the remarks, except George's nasty.  If the lady didn't understand then she isn't stupid or an idiot.  You may not know the reason she doesn't understand and it doesn't matter.  She purchased items from you and called you because she thought you would help her.
I suffered a brain injury almost 3 years ago and for almost a year I had difficulty doing the most simple of things.  I was not stupid, not an idiot, but someone whose brain was not working properly.  I was treated with the same sort of disdain by some people and found it painful and disconcerting.  No one has any idea why this woman couldn't figure out something that we all think is easy.  She bought those pens from you and paid a good amount for 3 slim line items.  
I am tired of the negative and disparaging comments I see here and the distinct underlying anger that is often expressed in posts.


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## seamus7227 (Jun 21, 2012)

I hope that no one has taken offense to what i said, not that i care, but i want people to realize that obviously George makes a good point about the lady making your Christmas better.  Fact remains, she spent money her money on your pens, just make the problem right in her eyes as best possible. She will remember that and spread the word that you stand by your work. Its just good ethics. 

  ......but i still thought it was funny what i said earlier. Not that i would say that to one of my customers.:biggrin:


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## mredburn (Jun 21, 2012)

Is the problem that she didn't really know they weren't broke or is she just trying to blame you to get them "fixed" for no cost to her? I have dealt with people that did not want to pay for anything they didn't have to, in any way it took to get that done. If you believe she is worth the trouble of fixing them for free and personally explaining the problems, then do it.  Along with something like "Detroit doesn't fill up your car with gas after you buy it, I don't give free refills for life"  Or if you believe there is no longer a reason to salvage the account. No further sales from her or referrals to her friends that would generate sales. Then by all means cut your losses and move on.
We all complain about poor customer service when we are the ones on loosing end. We forget that there are just as many people abusing that system to get what they want without having to pay for it any way they can. I have had people tell me they "Were in the business" and I should give them that "courtesy discount" they deserved. My reply "If your in the "business" than why are you in my retail sales environment trying to get a discount. If you could get it cheaper elsewhere you wouldn't be standing here talking to me." The price stands.   I also have a low tolerance for stupidity but will give a client the benefit of the doubt the first time. 
 Good luck with it which ever way you decide to handle it.


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## Texatdurango (Jun 21, 2012)

Jason, Right here on this forum are members who don't know how to fill an ink converter in a fountain pen, don't know how to remove a nib feed from it's housing for cleaning or the simple task of removing the spring from the bottom of a roller ball pen to adjust it's stiffness and yet they call themselves PEN MAKERS!  Would you consider them to be idiots or stupid just because they don't know how?  

When I was selling bottle stoppers alongside my pens I can't recall how many people picked one up and tried to write with it!  Not that they were stupid, they just didn't know better.


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## CatSmasher (Jun 21, 2012)

There is a difference between stupid and ignorant.  Ignorant is not bad, but people should be willing to learn.


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## OLDMAN5050 (Jun 22, 2012)

I have made 2 bullet pens for 1 cop. he threw away the first one because it gave out of ink, told me " I did not know how to put a refill in it"  I simply gave him another pen and showed him how to change the refill(again). since then he has bought  some for his buddies...... be nice and the rewards always follow.................


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## sbell111 (Jun 22, 2012)

OLDMAN5050 said:


> I have made 2 bullet pens for 1 cop. he threw away the first one because it gave out of ink, told me " I did not know how to put a refill in it"  I simply gave him another pen and showed him how to change the refill(again). since then he has bought  some for his buddies...... be nice and the rewards always follow.................



Agreed.

The OP should see this situation as an opportunity and be thankful that the customer retained his contact information.  I would sit down with her and walk her through how to change a refill and how she can correct and avoid the problem with the pencil.  She will be happy to learn that the items weren't actually broken and may continue to buy from you in the future.

That being said, if any of us does not want to fiend 'stupid questions' and deal with maintenance/repair requests, my advice is to stop selling slim pencils and other items that tend to have problems and to start including 'care and feeding' instructions with your pens.


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## jimofsanston (Jun 22, 2012)

I have a client that I have sold pens to at just about what it cost me to make and even less. He has broken a few pens and i have remade or repaired them. But he will always come see me and look at my newer pens. He even has brought his brother to look at them. Word of mouth is the way i do my buisness and always will take care of my customers when ever needed. I have been in the retail market thruout my life and always followed the standard rules. 

*1. The customer is always right.*
*2. If you still have issues refer to rule 1.*


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## CatSmasher (Jun 22, 2012)

Grizz said:


> Public School teacher was all you had to say.
> 
> ( present company excluded :wink: )


 

Not cool.

My wife is a public school teacher and she is the most dedicated, hard working, caring and under paid person I know.  

I feel guilty because I do half the work and get three times the salary that she does.  She doesn't care since she does it because she loves to work with children.

From what I have seen over the years, maybe one in ten teachers could be better at what they do, but over half of the parents out there don't seem to give a rip if their kids learn to behave or do their homework.  

My wife and her friends many times have taken up a collection to help kids whose parents are having a hard time get school supplies, or they buy their own paper, ink, etc, or they make blankets and buy Christmas presents for a family whose mother passed away from cancer, or they stay late almost every day to help kids with tutoring or sports or club activities for no additional pay.

You might want to think twice before you lump a whole group of people together in your paradigms.  You are off base on this one.


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## Pup (Jun 22, 2012)

Well said.


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## dow (Jun 22, 2012)

When I was hired at my current job (well over 10 years back) my then (and now) boss told me, "Your job is to provide our employees the tools to do their jobs."  I look at my penmaking business the same way.  I am, by the narrowest definition, a tool maker.  The tools that I make are used for many purposes, from jotting down grocery lists to signing legal documents to writing condolence letters after a death to creating beautiful drawings or just simple doodles.  That’s why I make them.

  Regardless of the final use, my job IS to provide my customers with the tools that they need to do what they need to do.  If my tools fail (for whatever reason) once they leave my hands and become the property of someone else, then my reputation as a tool maker can suffer and with it, my business.  The only way that I can proactively head that off is to offer excellent customer service, both before and after the sale.  It's none of my concern WHY the pen failed, only that it did fail.  It is DEFINITELY in my best interests to get that pen repaired (even if it's just out of ink) and back into the hands of the owner.  It is also in my best interests to educate the owner on how best to use and maintain that pen.  My reputation and the success of my business rises and falls on the waves of the customer's opinion.  Happy customers will tell a few people about me, and that's great.  Unhappy customers will tell EVERYBODY about me, and that's bad.  I much prefer the assistance of the former over the latter.

  Fix the pen for the lady.  Be kind. Be gracious. Be patient. Smile and make her glad that she called you.  She may be the gateway to your greatest sale ever, simply on the strength of her perception of your customer service.  She is NOT an idiot.  She is NOT stupid.  She may be ignorant, or she might just not understand.  However, when you look at your customers as if they’re stupid or idiotic, it shows in your face, eyes, voice and mannerisms.  It’s rude.  Don’t be rude.  Ever.


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## Displaced Canadian (Jun 22, 2012)

I work in the service industry so I can sorta see both sides of this. Attitude on both sides is everything. The customer may always be right but sometimes they are lying. If it is an honest mistake it is an easy thing to deal with. But when they are telling you that the toilet lid just broke and they didn't touch it You have to find a nice way to ask why is there a piece of it beside the broken TV in the living room. 
 As for when do you cut your loses, With a grumpy customer I would fix and gently explain the issue to them once for free. After that I would charge them a fair price for the refill. For a good customer who brought me a lot of business I would give them free  refills as long as they brought me business. The right attitude could turn a grumpy customer into a good, regular customer. However some people just yell because they want to get something for free and they think if they yell first they must be right. Still treat them fair. How far beyond that would be up to you.


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## tjseagrove (Jun 22, 2012)

Hmmm....since I maintain over 100 computers in a corporate environment and have been for over 12 years, this sounds more like a customer service issue more than anything else.  Customer service, provided correctly, reaps large rewards.

I have private computer clients who come back time and time again.  The new referrals ALWAYS mention that their friend was happy with my service and I can be trusted.  Now it is your turn to turn a disgruntled customer into your best ever cheerleader!!!!  Unhappy customers are an opportunity, not an obstacle. (although there is always some....:smile-big: )


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## Haynie (Jun 22, 2012)

Hey Grizz, Bite me!

To the OP
The buyer's profession is immaterial.  To you they are a paying customer.  I could tell you about doctors, lawyers, engineers, contractors, teachers, and several others.  My mechanics would walk away from them in frustration, but you know what, I had to treat that person with the utmost respect because they were my PAYING customer.  If they came back with a complaint and if they did not break the boat just did not know how to use it, I would patiently explain things, give a crash course, and treat them with respect.  If it looked like they were not going to leave with a smile I went one more extra mile for them because they were my PAYING customer.

Sounds like you had a pretty good sized mark up so do the right thing with a smile on your face.  If she leaves with a smile on her face She will recommend a few people maybe.  You treat her like a moron, then you have lost a LOT of potential customers.  If some one is happy with service they tell a few people, if some one is NOT happy with the service they tell as many people as than can.


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## jd99 (Jun 22, 2012)

tjseagrove said:


> Hmmm....since I maintain over 100 computers in a corporate environment and have been for over 12 years, this sounds more like a customer service issue more than anything else. Customer service, provided correctly, reaps large rewards.
> 
> I have private computer clients who come back time and time again. The new referrals ALWAYS mention that their friend was happy with my service and I can be trusted. Now it is your turn to turn a disgruntled customer into your best ever cheerleader!!!! Unhappy customers are an opportunity, not an obstacle. (although there is always some....:smile-big: )


Come on now you mean you never once used the trouble code "PBKAC"?? :biggrin: (Problem Between Keyboard And Chair)

I do the same thing but the numbers are a little different, over 3,500 servers, and last count was over 6,000 users in multiple states....

And people wonder why I lost all my hair. :wink:


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## sbell111 (Jun 22, 2012)

Grizz said:


> Sounds like you had a pretty good sized mark up so do the right thing with a smile on your face.


Your overall point is well made, but he sold three pen and pencil sets for $130.  His markup was not that awesome.


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## Haynie (Jun 22, 2012)

That was me Franklin and I misread the post.  Too late to edit.  I still think he misses the concept of customer service and how important it is to do it with a smile on his face.


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## dbledsoe (Jun 22, 2012)

Quote

Come on now you mean you never once used the trouble code "PBKAC"?? :biggrin: 

I use PICNIC - problem in chair, not in computer.


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## The Penguin (Jun 23, 2012)

no "ID-10-T" errors?


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## farmer (Jun 23, 2012)

I try to let it role off . Allot of people like that over educated for mankind.
They think different is all. as long as they are a paying customer I just laugh it off.

 The only thing i can add to a business is customer support.
 Everyone offers products.
but fast polite and direct works the best for me.

I dont know of anyone that hasnt acted stupid once or twice in there life !
Best of luck
Farmer


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## edicehouse (Jun 23, 2012)

Someone that ties hooks on fishing line all day can show someone how to tie a fishing knot, 6 months later you may not remember.  And that guy would laugh about what an idiot we are to his friends.

Just think back to some of our previous threads about something we did (CA glue anyone?), and how many outsiders would call us idiots.

Before my grandmother moved to Florida, she would call me once every 3 or 4 weeks that her TV wasn't working, or the DVD player wouldn't work; and I had to walk her through using the tv/video button.


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## Smitty37 (Jun 25, 2012)

edicehouse said:


> Someone that ties hooks on fishing line all day can show someone how to tie a fishing knot, 6 months later you may not remember. And that guy would laugh about what an idiot we are to his friends.
> 
> Just think back to some of our previous threads about something we did (CA glue anyone?), and how many outsiders would call us idiots.
> 
> Before my grandmother moved to Florida, she would call me once every 3 or 4 weeks that her TV wasn't working, or the DVD player wouldn't work; and I had to walk her through using the tv/video button.


 Well I've worked with Technology all my life and if I don't use a function on one of my technology devices for awhile, I have to look it up in the book or go to the instructions on the screen to get it going.  At times when I was working designing Test Equipment I would have to fix a tester that I had designed a few years earlier - I never remembered how everything worked.  I'd have to get out the drawings and figure out what I'd done to make it work right.


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## Xander (Jun 25, 2012)

Smitty37 said:


> edicehouse said:
> 
> 
> > Someone that ties hooks on fishing line all day can show someone how to tie a fishing knot, 6 months later you may not remember. And that guy would laugh about what an idiot we are to his friends.
> ...


 
But.... this is a pen. How stupid do you have to be if you can't figure out it needs ink to work? Really, pens have been in use since man invented language and we have all been using them forever (Well, anyone over the age of 30) so ... to say a pen does not work without thinking about replacing the refill is just.... stupid.


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## dow (Jun 25, 2012)

Xander said:


> But.... this is a pen. How stupid do you have to be if you can't figure out it needs ink to work? Really, pens have been in use since man invented language and we have all been using them forever (Well, anyone over the age of 30) so ... to say a pen does not work without thinking about replacing the refill is just.... stupid.



I think that you're missing the point of the responses that have been posted.  Here's the deal.  It's NOT about the pen.  It IS about the customer.  Whether or not the customer knows how to change a refill is irrelevant. We live in (for want of a better term) a disposable society.  Everything is a throw-away, from TVs to candy wrappers.  It's not inconceivable that someone could use pens and not know how to replace the ink refill.  

Customer service is what this is all about.  This and every other commercial enterprise where you deal with people.  Customer service will keep you afloat when all else seems to fail,  If its good service.


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## randyrls (Jun 25, 2012)

I offer all my friends free refills.  That way I can inspect the pen, see how the finish is holding up, and let them take a look at my latest creations.  I've sold many pens this way.

PS.  I just got off the phone with Comcast Customer Service.  It was a good experience.  I was switching cable modems to a different modem.


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## Texatdurango (Jun 25, 2012)

Xander said:


> ......But.... this is a pen. How stupid do you have to be if you can't figure out it needs ink to work? Really, pens have been in use since man invented language and we have all been using them forever (Well, anyone over the age of 30) so ... to say a pen does not work without thinking about replacing the refill is just.... stupid.


Seems like everyone is focusig on the pen and it's refill, Did you catch this sentence in the middle of the post...... "_She calls me and says the pen doesn't write *and the pencil is broken*_" 

To me, this is a little more than not knowing how to chance a refill in a pen!  Was the MAIN reason for calling to report the broken pencil and the pen problem being secondary?....... we'll never know!

While we're talking about changing refills in a pen, does anyone here know how many kit pens there are that use ballpoint or roller ball refills?  Does everyone know how to open a pen to access the refill in every pen?  How many ways are there to open a simple Sierra type pen?  Some unscrew from the front, some unscrew from the rear, some just pull apart then you unscrew the transmission.  

So. opening a pen to change a refill might just be more involved than we first think!


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## Xander (Jun 25, 2012)

Texatdurango said:


> Xander said:
> 
> 
> > ......But.... this is a pen. How stupid do you have to be if you can't figure out it needs ink to work? Really, pens have been in use since man invented language and we have all been using them forever (Well, anyone over the age of 30) so ... to say a pen does not work without thinking about replacing the refill is just.... stupid.
> ...


 I haven't re-read the OP but from memory the pencil was broken because she could not remember how to use it. This woman must be a real dumb ass and I'm amazed she has survived this long. It does not take much to figure out how a pen opens, or how a pencil works. And this woman is a teacher.... using pens and pencils all day everyday. To say she "just does not know" is ridiculous. The woman is an idiot.

As for customer service..... yes this is a consideration... TO A POINT.... which is what the OP was asking about. When does customer service become too much. I'd say with this customer.


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## Chrome (Jun 25, 2012)

WWAtty said:


> I print out a little set of instructions on a slip of paper to include with each one, stating the "care and feeding of your new pen." It tells how to protect it, replace the cartridge, etc.



I was considering doing this, any chance of seeing an example please? :biggrin:

Cheers,
Chrome


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## Smitty37 (Jun 25, 2012)

Xander said:


> Smitty37 said:
> 
> 
> > edicehouse said:
> ...


My only disagreement with that is this.  I am sure there are customers out there who have never changed a refill in their life and don't even know you can change them.  I know folks who have never owned a pen that wasn't a "freebie" promo pen oe a bic stic or papermate they got at work and when they run dry you toss them away.


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