# Using Gorilla Glue



## Stuart (Jun 21, 2004)

How do you keep the glue out of the tube when using Gorilla glue? I'm currently using CA. I run beads the length and sort of around the tube and then twist it into the blank. So far I haven't had any problems but would like to give Gorilla a try.

Stuart


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## ttpenman (Jun 21, 2004)

I use Gorilla Glue all the time and love it.  I know some people try to keep it out of the tube but personally I don't worry about it.  I just let it dry overnight and I clean up the dry foam with a round file.  You really need to let it dry.  Before it is dry it is a sticky mess!  If you don't want to let it dry overnight you should use something else.  I do my pens in batches so it's not been a problem for me.


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## Doghouse (Jun 21, 2004)

cut potato in half
push tubes into potato
voila

the tubes are held upright untill ready for use and put the potato side in first. You will never get glue in a plugged hole.


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## jrc (Jun 21, 2004)

I use Gorilla Glue too and I trim mine the next day also but use a drill bit that's is the next size smaller glued into a handle.  It useualy cleans it out fairly easy.  I think if you trim them the next morning the trimer cleans more out than if you wait a few days.

Jim


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## Rudy Vey (Jun 21, 2004)

Bill Baumbeck sell so-called base plate wax sheets for a couple of pennies a sheet. This is one option to keep the tubes closed so no glue runs into them. I use it from time to time, but mainly use a drill bit and/or the barrel trimmer. I do mainly american style flat tops from Berea, so i have always a "L" bit in a chuck handy.
Rudy


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## Daniel (Jun 22, 2004)

Plumers Putty works to but I have had better luck with the potato. and if you like raw potatos you have a handy snack as well. (the remaining Potato not the plug)
 wax seems like a good idea but I am leary of any waxes or oils on anything I will be trying to finish later. SO I would take extra care in cleaning up the wax before turning. cutting away the surface of the blank would take care of any other issues along that line.


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## Rudy Vey (Jun 22, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Daniel_
> <br />Plumers Putty works to but I have had better luck with the potato. and if you like raw potatos you have a handy snack as well. (the remaining Potato not the plug)
> wax seems like a good idea but I am leary of any waxes or oils on anything I will be trying to finish later. SO I would take extra care in cleaning up the wax before turning. cutting away the surface of the blank would take care of any other issues along that line.



Never observed any problems when I used the wax. Your must make sure to remove it, and it is anyways only a plug in the brass tube that will be pushed out before the parts go onto a mandrel. And then the wood, which might have been contaminated will be turned off to a great extend. So the chance that a small amount of wax will interfere with the later applied finish is pretty small if not existant.
Rudy


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## tipusnr (Jun 22, 2004)

How do you apply the gorilla glue?  With CA I make a circle about halfway down the tube and near the far end then slowly turn the blank to while moving the CA between the two circles.  I then turn the blank as I insert the tube.  Would the same technique work with gorilla glue?


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## Rudy Vey (Jun 22, 2004)

> _Originally posted by tipusnr_
> <br />How do you apply the gorilla glue?  With CA I make a circle about halfway down the tube and near the far end then slowly turn the blank to while moving the CA between the two circles.  I then turn the blank as I insert the tube.  Would the same technique work with gorilla glue?



I lay a bead of glue around one end of the tube and insert it in the blank with a twisting motion and I go back and forth with the tube, then I turn the blank around and do the same and insert the tube finally completely in the blank. This works the best for me.
Rudy


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## ilikewood (Jun 22, 2004)

I personally don't like to use PU glue.  I use the 5 min epoxys and have had no problems whatsoever (of course, I can't stand to wait overnight for the PU glue to set) []

I was reading the methods of keeping the glue out of the tubes, and they all work.  I suggest to experiment and find the one that works good for you.  I am like many of the people in this thread and don't worry so much about a bit of glue getting in there.  I also use a drill bit to ream the glue out of the brass when needed.  As long as you dont take any brass out, it works like a charm.


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## melchioe (Jun 22, 2004)

I'm a big fan of Gorilla Glue - it means I can use the same glue for almost all of my woodworking.  I love the baseplate wax from Bill Baumbeck, only $0.25 per sheet (cheaper than a potato, since once you open the potato, the shelf life is negligible), and you can do a lot of 7mm kits with one sheet...  I plug both ends of the tube with them.  There's no wax cleanup issues - the plug comes out beatifully whole before turning, and if any was left on the outside of the blank, the turning process would remove it...

I've had more blowouts during turning when using CA than with Gorilla, and I have had more tubes let go inside finished pens with CA (and NONE with gorilla), and I'm pretty nitpicky about gluing - am very careful with CA as well as Gorilla.


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## melchioe (Jun 22, 2004)

Technique can make a difference too -- I drip glue into one end of the drilled blank (on two edges of the same opening, so I get two separate drips down the side of the hole - better coverage), use a q-tip to spread it down, and a strong light to make sure I got every square millimeter, and then use a fresh q-tip to do the outside of the tube.  Q-tips are cheap...  I also use Q-tip brand swabs, as i find they cotton sticks to the stick better than on the generic ones, and I hate finding little cotton pieces in my pens...

I like gorilla glue because:
1 - it's waterproof (I know, so is CA)
2 - it has a nice long setup time, allowing me to fully spread inside the tube without worrying about running out of time before it sets
3 - it expands to fill gaps, so if you do like Bill Baumbeck advises and drill your holes slightly large, you'll still get solid coverage
4 - I'm less likely to glue myself to other things or myself (although if I'm not careful, my fingertips turn dark for a day)[:I]


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## melchioe (Jun 22, 2004)

An indirect benefit of using Gorilla is setting the pace.  When i first started pen turning, I was in a hurry all the time.  I wanted immediate gratification, and CA let me do that.  After a time, I noticed I was making more mistakes than I usually do with wood projects, and I tried to slow down - without much luck, since I was addicted.

The benefit of Gorilla Glue in this scenario is to make me stop and think.  I now need to plan more ahead to do the work, so I'm more likely to allow myself more (and sufficent) time.  I've also started doing much more "assembly line" work, drilling and gluing a number of blanks ahead of time, which has the added benefit of letting me focus on one activity for longer, rather than having to shift gears.


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## melchioe (Jun 22, 2004)

Oh, and just a quick aside, this should probably be in the penturning section rather than in the help and questions area - this area is nominally intended for help and questions on the site itself, where the penturning area is for discussing the actual pen-turning.  (not that we don't like a good discussion wherever it may be found...)


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## ilikewood (Jun 22, 2004)

Although Ed gets a commission for the Gorilla glue he sells (just kidding Ed [] ), with any glue, keeping the glue out of the tubes can be done with any of the methods listed (wax, potato, etc).  Try as many as you can of the suggested methods and find one that works the easiest and cheapest for you.  And potatoes are cheap too...oh yeah, sorry...I live in the potato heart of Idaho.

I would also suggest trying some and letting the glue enter the tube and then use the listed reaming methods.  All the posts here had excellent ideas and suggestions.  I also bet there are a few more out there too, but I haven't personally tried any different ones.


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## Scott (Jun 22, 2004)

Hi Guys,

I use polyurethane glue, and I apply it to the inside of the blank with a Q-tip.  I swab it all the way through, then insert the brass tube.  That's it!  I do use Bill Baumbeck's Base Plate Wax to plug the ends of the brass tubes.

Potatoes are for cookin' and eatin', don't you know!   ;-)

Scott, also in Idaho!


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## jrc (Jun 22, 2004)

I use a toothpick to aply glue inside the hole.  Where do I find the wax sheets, I would like to try it on the larger pens.


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## melchioe (Jun 22, 2004)

Bill, I surely wish Gorilla woud send me that comission check...  [}]

Scott, dontcha know, you're right, dem dere taters are good eatin. Yaa der.  (Minnesotans, Sheboyganites, and most Wisconsinite or others of scandiavian descent will know what I mean).

Stuart, the "baseplate wax" (I'm not sure what baseplate it's for, but that's what Bill Baumbeck calls it) can be found at http://arizonasilhouette.com/search_result.asp?PRODUCT_ID=BP-Wax


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## jrc (Jun 27, 2004)

I glued up about 175 blanks this morning and just finished trimming them and it seems that the trimmer cleaned out most of the Gorilla glue, some completely clean.  If you trim within a few hours of glueing the trimmer does work better.


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## Daniel (Jun 28, 2004)

I came across some general information and experiences with Poly glue the last cople of days.
  One on a general woodworking forum it was pretty much decided that poly glue was not desirable. this was also pretty much due to the mess it makes when working with large projects so does not apply to us. what was interesting to penturners was the need to apply good pressure to the joint to get a strong bond.
  these comments casued me to rethink the few problems I have had with poy glue. this could have been due to loose fitting tubes.
  My experience was with using poly glue to glue a bunch of scrap pieces to blocks in order to turn some Bookmark buttons. any piece that even had a slight gap failed. so even though poly will foam and fill a gap i am seeing evedence and comments that it is a very weak bond.
  there was one additional comment I saw several times. the addition of moisture creats a stronger bond. the glue will foam without intentionally adding water but it is a weaker bond than without it. Keeping this in mind may lead to a stronger bond even though it needs to fill a gap. kind of comes full circle that way.


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## tipusnr (Jun 28, 2004)

175 blanks!?! Is this your day job!  That blows me away as I do maybe 10 at a time for my hobby production and the most was 26 half blanks during a Christmas rush for relatives.

How do you stay focused and creative?


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## jrc (Jun 28, 2004)

Last year when I ordered kits I would order 100 extra tubes and now I have enough to glue about 500 pens blanks ahead.  If I get a big order I can start turning and then order the kits.  I hate glueing blanks thats why I do so many at once.  I stay focused by seeing each pen is a different pen from the last, music, cool shop and wonderful wood to work with.


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## pecartus (Jun 28, 2004)

Daniel,

I use poly glue on all my woods, especially wood pen blanks, but I go one step further, I apply water to both the brass and to the inside of the blank, yep, there is a lot of foaming that goes on, but the tube and the blank are cemented together. In principle, they foam towards each other, thus making the foam a stronger bond. The glue bonds and fills the gap within the wood and the glue on the brass foams towards the wood and creates a stronger bond. the ends on the blanks are cleaned up by the barrel trimmer and I normally run a small file through the tubes to clean any left over poly out that may have gotten into them. The secret I believe is the water and appling Poly to both pieces. Havent had a blow out since I went this way with my wood blanks.


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## Daniel (Jun 29, 2004)

Jim,
  Was just looking at your blank production photos. I'm tired of drilling and gluing just looking at them. Would love to see a pen turned out of them.


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## jrc (Jun 29, 2004)

Hi Daniel,  I just posted 2 of my best sellers, lilac pens.  I like to have the heart wood and sap wood together in the lilac.


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## melchioe (Jun 29, 2004)

Geez, I was impressed by myself when I glued up 25 blanks the other day and trimmed them the next day.  You leave me gasping in the dust...  

Very nice lilac.  I like the contrast between the hart and sap.  Nice work!


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## Daniel (Jun 29, 2004)

I really like that Lilac wood. 
And ED. you could cut and drill a few hundred blanks to. just get that saw and drill press up to 10-or 20 thousand R.P.M. [] and that 25 becomes 250.


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## tipusnr (Jun 30, 2004)

How old does the lilac bush have to be before you can harvest slimline blanks from it?  Mine's about 4 years old and doesn't seem anywhere thick enough.  Not that the wife would let me cut it down anyway!


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## jrc (Jun 30, 2004)

I don't know what age but I use it when it's 1 1/2" to 2" in diameter. Some lilac has purple in it some don't.  Some is mostly white wood and very little heart wood.  I cut them to 18" to 24" long and quarter them on a bandsaw. Sometimes I cross stack them for a few weeks before I cut them into blanks and sometimes I cut them right to blanks.  I'm trying something new for drying, laundry baskets and a small fan.


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## melchioe (Jun 30, 2004)

Hmm, 10-20,000 RPM, you say?  Not sure my 1.75-horse motor is up to it.  Perhaps I now have a use for that small-block Chevy sitting in the storeroom.  Now I just have to figure out a transmission to hook it to the DeWalt...[8D][][}]


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## Evan (Jul 5, 2004)

I was going to start a new topic with my question, but since it's about Gorilla Glue...


I used gorilla glue for the first time yesterday... glued two sets as practice.  Anyhow, I forgot I had already put in some thin CA on the inside of the drilled holes in the pen blanks.  I only noticed it when the foam seemed to come off easily from the leftover dried CA on the outside ends of the pen blanks.

Now I'm worried about a blow-out if the PU glue on the inside did not adhere very well to the inside of the pen blanks due to the thin CA.

Any thoughts/help?

Thanks!


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## Daniel (Jul 5, 2004)

Evan,
  I find most of the foamy glue does come off easily. it has a consistance of styrafoam. from what I can gather the pressure of being sandwiched in a gap has alot to do with it's strength. From my experience your blanks will be O.K.


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## pecartus (Jul 6, 2004)

I agree with daniel, you shouldnt have a problem with the glue. I have done this in the past.


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## Evan (Jul 7, 2004)

Thanks - I guess I won't find out until I turn.

I used the gorilla glue for the two sets (birds eye maple and padauk) because the holes were unusually too large at one end... must've drilled it improperly.


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## melchioe (Jul 9, 2004)

OK, now I must take a break from my Gorilla glue evangelizing to ask a question - has anyone had the glue force the tube out of the blank?  I have never had that happen before in 100+ Gorilla-glued blanks, but then all of a sudden I drilled and glued 15 blanks, and the next day over half of them had the brass tubes sticking out of the wood up to an inch!  I haven't had even one do that before...

Sound familiar to anyone?


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## Tom McMillan (Jul 9, 2004)

Hi Ed

Yes, I've learned to watch my blanks closely when using Gorilla glue.  The last time this happened to me I had turned the blanks up on one end, and I caught them in time to push the tubes back in.  But, you do need to be careful, and I'm sure it has something to do with how much glue is used.  Also, it seems like it's especially important to be careful with acrylic blanks.  

Tom


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## Scott (Jul 9, 2004)

Hi Ed,

Yes, I've had that happen, but not real often.  Just wrap a rubber band around the glued up blank longways, and that seems to hold the tubes in just fine.

Scott.


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## Daniel (Jul 9, 2004)

Ed,
  I had this happen right off the bat when I started using Poly Glue. Lucky for me I was watching. sice then I stand them on end on a piece of wax paper. the tube is then nice and even with one end of the blank which is nice for getting matched grain. and the glue hasn't been able to overcome gravity yet.


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## melchioe (Jul 9, 2004)

These were all wood blanks, about 50% of them stabilized.  But the tubes sticking out are on both pure wood and stabilized wood.


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## melchioe (Jul 9, 2004)

Thannks for the tips - standing on end and rubber bands.  My concern with that is that I like to have the tube in just a squosh (squosh = 1/16" or thereabouts, in this case - it's a relative term) so that when I square up the blank to the tube I have some material to remove.  If it's against the absolute edge, I take away tube when I trim.  The problem there isn't that tube is missing (there's usually some tolerance), but that I don't know when it's even.  If there is some extra wood, then when the edge of the tube becomes bright, it's square - if it's butted up against the edge, it becomes bright right away.  I suppose that as soon as it's bright all the way around it'll be square...  Granted, as long as I'm fairly straight in my drilling, I still won't lose much and can be sure of the squareness - OK, now I'm just rambling.  I'll try the standing on end trick and see how it works...

Thanks, all!


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## Daniel (Jul 9, 2004)

Ed,
  Withthe standing on edge method I do have to watch for a severly uneven end. othewise I stand them so the the edge of the tube is at the lowest edge of the blank. Hope that makes since. what it looks like is one point of the brass tube will be flush with the end of the blank. wile the other side whill be below the surface somewhat. when trimming I try to insure that eh barrel trimmer has cut a circle completely around the tube. at least far enough for the final shape of the pen at that point. on most pens this is a very thin margin. I havn't had a problem yet. but you do need to pay attention for severly uneven blank ends.


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## pecartus (Jul 10, 2004)

Daniel,

I glad you pointed that out, I was wondering what you did to compensate for a uneven end before turning. Now here comes the question, to make a pen tube to float like that, wouldnt you have to be using a lot of poly glue to make this happen[?] I just use a very thin coat of glue (using a Q-tip)on a wet tube and a thin coat of poly glue on the inside of a wetted blank and never have experienced the problem with floating tubes nor do I experience any problems with a tube spinning or a blank blowout on the mandrel.


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## Daniel (Jul 10, 2004)

Patrick,
 I wooudl suspect you are correct withthe to much glue assesment. I wills tart using your method. hopefully it will cut down on the foam that oozes out the ends of the blank as well. my current method is to pour glue directly into the hole int he blnakk. then with a tube that is plugged at eh ednd i simply push it through. the idea is to have enough glue that it beads on the end and thouroughly coats the surface of the hole as it is riding along on the top of the tube. as this bead begins to come out hte other end of the blank, I am able to pour it into the next blank. I keep this bead going until I have glued the last tube in. it oes very quickly this way and have glued up to 200 blanks in just about a half hour this way. but he glue will foam up so much it completely covers the hole at one end. I have to peel it off with my fingernail and sometimes cut it away with a box knife. a real pain and practically nulls any time savings from the gluing method. nearly no waste of glue though, and being a hard core tight wad. well let's just say such benefits are hard to ignore []


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## bjackman (Jul 16, 2004)

Just thought I would toss my 2 cents in on this one.
I use PU glue on probablly 90% of my blanks. The only times I use something else is when I: 
1. did not plan far enough in advance, and _must_ turn quickly, (5 min epoxy)
2. need to use a clear glue for light/thin semi-tranparent materials (5 or 30 min epoxy)
As for plugging tubes to reduce foam clean-out I have come to prefer play-doh. I tried BB's baseplate wax, and while it works well to seal the end of the tubes, I don't like how it clogs and sticks to the drill bit I use to clean out the remaining glue/foam. Compared to my play-doh, which dries completely in the day it takes the glue to dry. So, when I ream with the drill bit, it just drills out and crumbles away, (in a fairly colorful way 
My next purchase of PU glue will be Titebond brand, as it claims to dry in 4-8 hours instead of 24, and is cheaper than Gorilla Glue as well.
I also always try to add a drop or two of water into the drilled blank and shake it back and forth to coat the inside before I add a glob of glue at the top of the hole to let the glue slowly drip downward. By the time I have coated the tube with glue on my insertion tool, the glue in the blank has drained all the way down to the bottom of the blank, making a little pool at the bottom.


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## Rudy Vey (Jul 16, 2004)

> _Originally posted by bjackman_
> <br />Just thought I would toss my 2 cents in on this one.
> I use PU glue on probablly 90% of my blanks. The only times I use something else is when I:
> 1. did not plan far enough in advance, and _must_ turn quickly, (5 min epoxy)
> ...



I have used Gorilla in the past and found now Titebond. About half the price of the Gorilla glue, is a bit thinner and better spreadable.
It sets and dries much faster than Gorilla glue and foams a bit more. I have not found any difference between the two during turning or on the finished product.

Rudy


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## jwoodwright (Sep 12, 2004)

Poly is the best.  Terribly messy though.  I use disposable gloves when I remember.  Otherwise stained fingers...


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## jwoodwright (Oct 9, 2004)

Don't forget that Poly needs moisture to set-up.  Most times there is enough moisture in the air.  I usually swab the inside of the blank with a wet Q-Tip.  This way the Poly works better.  Foam is good.[]


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## terry q (Nov 11, 2004)

I also use Poly on my pens.  For glue removal I use a hardened bolt slightly smaller than the pen tube.  The threads pull the glue right out.

Terry


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## Fred in NC (Nov 11, 2004)

No potato or plate wax to plug the ends?

For 7mm tubes, I have a size D drill bit (.246") that I put a wood handle on.  It cleans the tube real well.


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