# Generators?



## longbeard (Jul 5, 2012)

As most of ya may or may not know, WV got hit with a bad storm last friday evening and i was without power til monday evening, and there are still alot of places without power today. The little misses said it was time for a generator, been looking at the one harbor frieght has on sale for $499.00 6500 watt. Does anyone have any input about these generators, good or bad. Predator series. 
Thanks for any and all advice
http://www.harborfreight.com/engine...generator-certified-for-california-68526.html


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## PTsideshow (Jul 5, 2012)

Can't address the generators as such. The engines are Honda clones (Honda GX 200 Series) and all the parts are interchange able as such. I put one of the 6hp horizontals on a 60's craftsmen snow blower this past fall it worked well. I will say that it didn't get a lot of use this past winter.

Somebody I know has one of the $99.00 ones and said it is fairly quite and worked well when they went camping and used it.
I have a 12.5KW Generac from 1998 and wish i bought the one that hooks to the gas line instead of gasoline. It can be a pain in the A$$. It did save the bacon with that 5 day regional power outage a couple years ago.

If you get a gasoline one make sure you have one of those jiggler siphon devices to get past the car/truck anti siphon devices. with the car and truck gas tanks just under 40 gallons. 3/6 gallon cans 2/5 gallon cans along with always keeping the tank on the unit full 8 gallon. We can run for over a week 6 am to 11:30pm 

I'm thinking of getting one from Harbor Freight for my parents house. They have a sump pump, and my old one is only 1,100 watts. So its the pump and fridge and a small fan and radio and it trips on occasion.

I do change the gas out over the course of the year, fill the truck and then refill the cans. Also use stabill, de icer in the unit and gas cans to cut down on any problems.

I wired the house with a transfer switch and plug by the shop so I just plug it in, and then switch over from line to generator. Sure cuts down on the extra BS with extension cords more so in winter trying to rewire the furnace with wifey jumping up and down about freezing to death.
 Also get a good heavy chain and padlock to lock it up, so it doesn't walk. The cable company has lost two chained to the pole across the street when the powers out.













It was a perfect swap the parts and bolt it down. I can say that I am a firm believer in them. Get the extra warranty and any problems swap it for another one! I'm thinking of getting another engine and mount it on another blower carcass to make a powered trailer dolly!
:clown:
EDIT
I forgot to add this web site, They have a lot of great info on choosing a system etc.  I do own a old generac system. I have no other interest in them. They do have the best no bull info.
It is important that what ever system you get, You figure out before hand how big you will need it. AS neither HF or any where else will take back a genny after it is purchased other than a direct swap for a working one. For obvious reasons even home despot and Lowes have certain restrictions that apply. To many people buy power washers use them once and say they are broke! :wink:
http://www.generac.com/Residential/


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## rherrell (Jul 5, 2012)

I have this one... All Power America Propane Powered Generator — 3500 Surge Watts, 2800 Rated Watts, Model# APG3535 | 1,000 - 4,999 Watts| Northern Tool + Equipment

It starts right up every time and because it's propane I don't have to worry about gas going bad, even after sitting for 6 months it starts on the second pull. It's not quite as big as the one you're looking at but it runs everything I need to get by for a day or so, any longer than that and I go to a motel.:biggrin::wink:


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## longbeard (Jul 5, 2012)

Thanks guys for the input, they (news) say the power could go out again with the power guys removing trees and such from the lines. Talked to a buddy today, his brother said they told him maybe by the weekend he would have his power back.
Temp. been in the 90's since the storm, 94 degrees now. Makes ya think about what you have and how much you depend on things when situations like this happens.

Glen, for sure chain it, bolt it down, cable co. had 2 of thier big ones stolen. Im only gonna use for the house, frig, 1 air cond. and some lights.  

Rick, no chance on going to a motel if we wanted too, sheetz only had power with generators enough for thier pumps, everything else had no power what so ever. Really wierd to drive around at night and not see one light on any where. But i've looked at the ones with propane and wondered how well those do if there was any difference in performance.


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## PTsideshow (Jul 5, 2012)

The propane ones are good too, we can't have any larger LPG cylinders than 40 pounders in the city.  If it is a 110volt window AC unit it will work. Central air 220v on start up can pull triple the run amperage. I looked at it as a long term investment In 1998 I paid 1,850.00 for the transfer switch set up and the generator 2 cylinder 18 HP robin engine. I bought it for my welder and figured that if I got ten years out of it I would be happy.
If you get one with an electric start, the battery will have to be on a float charger during the cold weather. I try to test it every couple of 3/4 months, and then shut the gas off and run it out dry starts everytime since I bought it.
:clown:


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## PTsideshow (Jul 5, 2012)

If you don't have any of the 20% off coupons here is the link wiki for them
Harbor Freight Coupon Thread - Slickdeals.net

Toward the bottom of the page are some coupons that are screen shots and will print out.
:clown:


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## longbeard (Jul 5, 2012)

My bro-inlaw has a 5700 watter and it will power his whole house, minus his furnace and washer & dryer so i figuered that one from HF would be suffient. Now my bro-inlaw has 2 male to male extension cords and just plugs them into 2 different outlets in the house and has power thru out his house.
Thanks for the coupon link.


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## glycerine (Jul 5, 2012)

Good question, I've been curiuos about the "Predator" as well.  I couldn't find a generator anywhere last Saturday!!


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## glycerine (Jul 5, 2012)

longbeard said:


> My bro-inlaw has a 5700 watter and it will power his whole house, minus his furnace and washer & dryer so i figuered that one from HF would be suffient. Now my bro-inlaw has 2 male to male extension cords and just plugs them into 2 different outlets in the house and has power thru out his house.
> Thanks for the coupon link.


 
Is that safe?!?!!  What happpens when the power comes back on?  Doesn't it just flip the breaker on the generator?


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## longbeard (Jul 5, 2012)

Sorry, i shoulda pointed out first. Shut the main OFF, then leave only the breakers you want on. Power will run thru the circut and power just those that are on the circut and turned on. Does that make sense? Lets say left side of the panel box: shut the breakers off on the right side of the box, anything on the left side that the breaker is on, you will have power to it as long as your generator is plugged into an outlet that is on the left side. Hope that helps. or confused you more dont know which.
But yes, shut the main off first.

I should add: i wouldnt let the inspecter see that but you can buy an outlet that goes directly into your breaker box and does the same thing.


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## Andrew_K99 (Jul 5, 2012)

Not to point out the obvious but this is NOT how it should be set up!

If you 'power' your house through one receptacle your running all the load through a single 14/2 wire to get to the other outlets.

This may work for a couple of lights but it is down right dangerous if you plan to do this to run your refrigerator, cooking appliances, or anything else that'll exceed 15 amps.

The so called suicide cord (male-male) is also not safe at all ... if pluged in the live prongs are easily touched and you'll figure out why they got their nick name.

AK


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## glycerine (Jul 5, 2012)

longbeard said:


> Sorry, i shoulda pointed out first. Shut the main OFF, then leave only the breakers you want on. Power will run thru the circut and power just those that are on the circut and turned on. Does that make sense? Lets say left side of the panel box: shut the breakers off on the right side of the box, anything on the left side that the breaker is on, you will have power to it as long as your generator is plugged into an outlet that is on the left side. Hope that helps. or confused you more dont know which.
> But yes, shut the main off first.
> 
> I should add: i wouldnt let the inspecter see that but you can buy an outlet that goes directly into your breaker box and does the same thing.


 
Yes, that makes sense.  I had just never heard of that being done before.


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## PTsideshow (Jul 5, 2012)

Have to agree with Andrew that that way is a no no, and if there are problems a house fire, or damage to electrical appliances. The insurance adjuster will ask to see the hook up from the generator to the house distribution system.
Before I installed the transfer switches I had a pig tail with a two way switch so either the pigtail feed it or the line feed the furnace. I would plug the fridge and other stuff in to extension cords. Got to be old real fast.





 Is the type of transfer switch set up. Two separate load centers with 6 breakers each  two of which can be tied together for a 220volt 30 amp beaker on each one.




The load center has a breaker for each and a line or generator feed switch. along with a watt meter for each three breakers.
It is the greatest thing I drag the generator out of the shop. Chain it up, Plug in the cord to the receptacle box. Turn the key, start the genny, then go down the basement and flip the switches from line to gen and you are good to go.
I do have a desk lamp plugged in to the garage shop which isn't on the generator. When the juice comes back on it is lite and I can switch over and then shut down.
:clown:


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## glycerine (Jul 5, 2012)

Andrew_K99 said:


> Not to point out the obvious but this is NOT how it should be set up!
> 
> If you 'power' your house through one receptacle your running all the load through a single 14/2 wire to get to the other outlets.
> 
> ...


 
Yeah, funny story, I made my own male-male extension cord one year for some Christmas lights... ah, we won't get into that.


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## PTsideshow (Jul 5, 2012)

glycerine said:


> Yes, that makes sense.  I had just never heard of that being done before.


It does feed back and out to the pole and down the street if it isn't disconnected form the circuit
:clown:


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## longbeard (Jul 5, 2012)

PTsideshow said:


> glycerine said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, that makes sense. I had just never heard of that being done before.
> ...


 
Yeah, the 10th post in this thread i mentioned that you need to shut the main off so that dont happen. They also make a pig-tail that goes into your breaker box that you can plug your generator into.
So i tthink im gonna try the Predator generator from HF, not gonna be in this situation again.
Thanks for the advice guys.


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## Smitty37 (Jul 5, 2012)

Andrew_K99 said:


> Not to point out the obvious but this is NOT how it should be set up!
> 
> If you 'power' your house through one receptacle your running all the load through a single 14/2 wire to get to the other outlets.
> 
> ...


Hmmmm...I have one, used rarely and I forget what I needed it for.  Tagged it at both ends with a red tag that said  "plug into the live power source last"

I agree that I would not try to power my house through an outlet or two even though my outlets all have 12-2 rather than 14-2 only the overhead lights and the outdoor wall lights use 14.

I did power a shed that way (just remembered that's what I needed the cord for) but all the shed had was a couple of light bulbs. and there was a separate breaker that only had the outlet I plugged into to get the power for the shed.


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## randyrls (Jul 5, 2012)

Sorry Duplicate deleted.


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## PenMan1 (Jul 5, 2012)

Andrew_K99 said:


> Not to point out the obvious but this is NOT how it should be set up!
> 
> If you 'power' your house through one receptacle your running all the load through a single 14/2 wire to get to the other outlets.
> 
> ...


 
It's called the IDIOT cord. Pretty easy to figure out how it got it's name. You'd better make sure to be at home when the power comes back on, or have pulled the main disconnect!

Generators should be run from an "isolation box", single 12g extension cord,(or better) or not at all.

To answer you question about generators. I own two. A small "suitcase" Honda 4 stroke for shows and emergencies, and a "Honda Clone" from Sam's Club. The clone uses a Honda engine with the rest made by Excel (I think, or....that could be the big pressure washer). Both have performed flawlessly for over a decade.


On the HF generator.....DO YOU REALLY TRUST the people who can't make a drill chuck center to keep you house from burning down? PLEASE DON'T TELL your insurance agent that you are powering your house with a non-UL generator!


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## Smitty37 (Jul 5, 2012)

PenMan1 said:


> Andrew_K99 said:
> 
> 
> > Not to point out the obvious but this is NOT how it should be set up!
> ...


 I agree a UL Safety approve unit is a good idea but the problem is Andy that anyone using an portable generator built prior to March 2009 will be doing that because there was no UL standard prior to UL 2201 which came out then.  I suspect it took a year for most manufacturers to get one designed, approved and in the market.  So approved generators have been available for only about 2 years or so and there are more than likely still a whole lot more unapproved in use than approved.


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## PenMan1 (Jul 5, 2012)

Well Smitty, that's SORTA true. Before 2009, only a few of the Japanese generators sold in the US (Honda, Yamaha, and Suzuki, for sure) were UL certified. I'm looking at my 2001 Honda 650 suitcase generator and it has the UL "halogram" on it.

It could be that like "CARB", these regulations are written well in advance. The standard was written "at the Millineum", but enforcement happened in 2008.

On insurance policy, My policy specifically EXCLUDES damages arising from any and all alternative power sources from "non-UL approved" alternative sources.


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## Smitty37 (Jul 5, 2012)

PenMan1 said:


> Well Smitty, that's SORTA true. Before 2009, only a few of the Japanese generators sold in the US (Honda, Yamaha, and Suzuki, for sure) were UL certified. I'm looking at my 2001 Honda 650 suitcase generator and it has the UL "halogram" on it.


 I don't doubt your word but I got my information from the UL's own website Andy - from their own press release:
Underwriters Laboratories (UL) published UL 2201 - Standard for Safety Portable Engine-Generator Assemblies - First Edition, a standard for portable engine-generator assemblies. Prior to this standard, there was no voluntary safety standard for portable generators sold in the U.S.


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## PenMan1 (Jul 5, 2012)

It's not a deal....other than that "addendum to coverage" page that comes between my annual insurance premiums, specifically nullifies my insurance for such devices.


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## Smitty37 (Jul 5, 2012)

PenMan1 said:


> It's not a deal....other than that "addendum to coverage" page that comes between my annual insurance premiums, specifically nullifies my insurance for such devices.


 I don't doubt that at all.  Portable generators used in the rain and snow and sleet with nothing to protect them from the elements and operated outside as they should be are about as unsafe as you can get.


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## PenMan1 (Jul 5, 2012)

My wife says I need to stop reading the "small print" on the bills and quit readingthe WSJ and the news.

According to her, I'm a handful when I get "notices" like this


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## Smitty37 (Jul 5, 2012)

PenMan1 said:


> My wife says I need to stop reading the "small print" on the bills and quit readingthe WSJ and the news.
> 
> According to her, I'm a handful when I get "notices" like this


 I just knew that summer before last I looked at portable generators and also whole house automatic generators and none of the portables I looked at were UL Listed.


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## PenMan1 (Jul 5, 2012)

Smitty37 said:


> PenMan1 said:
> 
> 
> > My wife says I need to stop reading the "small print" on the bills and quit readingthe WSJ and the news.
> ...


 

DAMMIT, Smitty! Now, I've got to go look at the labeling on the Generac! Next, PenWife1 will forbid me from looking at "warning labels":biggrin:


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## Smitty37 (Jul 6, 2012)

PenMan1 said:


> Smitty37 said:
> 
> 
> > PenMan1 said:
> ...


 Save the time.  I don't know if I looked at a Gererac portable I did look at the Generac whole house automatic....Got a neighbor who installed one but I don't recall looking at whether it was UL listed - I just assumed it was.


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## PTsideshow (Jul 6, 2012)

Just a general bit of info for anybody that owns a  older GENERAC portable generator, and can't find the manuals at Generac support site.
The model lines and manuals were sold to Briggs and Stratton a few years ago!
As silly as that sounds, I did find a pdf copy of my generators manual at B&S support site!
Small Engine Manuals | Lawn Mower Manuals | Briggs & Stratton 
The world just keeps getting stranger 
:clown:


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