# Stuck Tubes in blanks



## ezekiel371 (May 10, 2014)

I am new to the world of pen turning and am still trying to perfect my shaping and polishing but I seem to continue to have a reoccurring problem.  Frequently my tubes get stuck part of the way in.  I drill, dry fit (it is tight but not too tight) and then when I apply the glue and start to insert the tube into the blank it gets stuck about half of the way in.  I have read ways to deal with this once it has happened ( cutting the tube and using it from the other end) but I am looking for a way to avoid it all together.  What am I doing wrong?

Thanks


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## Wheelman (May 10, 2014)

My guess is your ca is setting up before you have it in all the way...I've got a handful of those on the bench. Woodcraft sells ca glue with a longer working time, I'll check the brand name when I get home. Also if your blanks are still hot from drilling the ca will set faster.


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## plantman (May 10, 2014)

You didn't mention what type of glue you were using. If you are using CA, use thick or gap filling CA and make sure your blank has cooled down before trying ti insert the glued tube. Using thicker CA gives you a little more time before it sets up. If useing 5 minute epoxy, make sure you have everything lined up and within reach before you mix. You could also go up a drill size if you have the 115 piece set using the meteric or letter sizes. Last but not least, you could use a rat tailed file or reamer to slightly inlarge the hole. I alway do my glueing close to my open bench vice. Tht way if the tube gets stuck, I can quickly press it in flush.   Jim  S


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## Lathemaster (May 10, 2014)

Just to add my 2 cents. I have totally switched to Gorilla Glue. I glue in the tubes and set them aside to cure. I realize CA is faster but I have had too many issues like the one mentioned here and tubes coming loose from some cast blanks on the lathe. I just plan my work so to longer set time is not an issue.

Cheers
Mike


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## ed4copies (May 10, 2014)

Frequently overlooked factors are heat as mentioned above and water.  If you have cooled your blank as you drill, using any liquid, make certain the blank is dry before using CA.

Last, DON'T use THIN CA.  Medium is "iffy" and thick is good.  Not only does it set more slowly, it also fills gaps better and will give you a better long-term adhesion to the blank.

Hope this helps,
Ed


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## Falcon1220 (May 10, 2014)

All good info above. If using ca, Place blanks in the fridge for couple minutes to cool down. Make sure it is dry before glueing in


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## walshjp17 (May 10, 2014)

As Ed said, water does not play well with CA -  it acts as an accelerator with CA.  Wood that has not completely dried (AKA 'green' wood) contains a lot of moisture.  Make sure the blanks you used have a moisture content below 6%.


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## shastastan (May 10, 2014)

Falcon1220 said:


> All good info above. If using ca, Place blanks in the fridge for couple minutes to cool down. Make sure it is dry before glueing in



Good tip on the fridge.  Quite logical, but I never had thought of it. Duh!


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## nativewooder (May 10, 2014)

In my humble opinion, CA glue has many uses, but gluing tubes in blanks is not one of them.  I have used high quality slow cure epoxy (24 hour) when I can find it.  If you insist on using CA glue in ways it is not meant to be used, then buy extra tubes and extra blanks while you learn.  Woodturning is a wonderful hobby, in all its' forms and I wish you much good fortune in the future.:wink:


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## ed4copies (May 10, 2014)

Everyone has their own "best method", I made several thousand pens using CA.  Chasper has made several thousand each YEAR using CA.

The key is good distribution of the glue.  Once you have glue on the tube, revolve it in the blank, push it in from both ends to coat both ends of the blank and, when you are done, let it sit overnight for a good, full curing.

Other glues can be equally effective, possibly even better.  But, if you like making LOTS of pens, you can't beat CA for ease and speed.


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## Phillip Kelley (May 10, 2014)

I  use the gel glue from Wal Mart & keep a small hammer close just in case it doestn't slide in quickly...


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## plantman (May 10, 2014)

Phillip Kelley said:


> I  use the gel glue from Wal Mart & keep a small hammer close just in case it doestn't slide in quickly...



Phillip; I am not sure what Walmart's gel is, so I can't make a comment on it. But a hammer blow may distort your tube or crack your blank. Slow even pressure applied with a vice or clamp is a better way to go. If this distorts your tube you were proably up the creak any`way.   Jim  S


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## Jim Burr (May 10, 2014)

nativewooder said:


> In my humble opinion, CA glue has many uses, but gluing tubes in blanks is not one of them.  I have used high quality slow cure epoxy (24 hour) when I can find it.  If you insist on using CA glue in ways it is not meant to be used, then buy extra tubes and extra blanks while you learn.:wink:


 
With that thinking, CA would never be used for wound closure, morphine for heart failure or Viagra for pulmonary hypertension. Thinking outside the box is what many of us do best and has resulted in great additional uses for stuff.
OP...always test fit your tubes before adding adhesive!! Once that adhesive is on place, my choice is CA, move your butt!! You have about 2-5 seconds if the correct conditions are met to set and place that tube.


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## ezekiel371 (May 10, 2014)

Thanks to all for your responses.  I am currently using medium CA glue and am going directly from the drill to gluing them in.  Heat is likely a big part of my issue.  I will try a thicker glue and allow them to cool.  
Thanks
Mic


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## Rolland (May 10, 2014)

I have had the same problem with CA glue so I went to 5 minute epoxy and found I like it a lot better. Found that if you stir it a bit longer that the directions say it sets up better.


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## ARTreadwell (May 10, 2014)

I have started using Advanced Pro Bond Glue by Elmer's to fasten brass tubes            
 in wood blanks.  It is easy to work with and does not have any of the negative
issues that are found with CA glue.  It is not as "messy" as two part Epoxy resin.
I do not know about the long term effects of Advanced Pro Bond, but it is easy
to work with and cleans up with soap and water.  I have used it on twelve blanks so far.  Has anyone else out there used Advanced Pro Bond by Elmer's?


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## wouldentu2? (May 10, 2014)

Use playdoh to make a plug at each end of the tube. Roll Playdoh till its 1/4 inch thick and press each end of the tube in it so it seals each end.

Place tube on end and drizzle CA all the way around the tube end so it runs down the tube, not the full length of the tube only about twice around the end in the air. This CA will be pushed to the other end.

Take the end of the tube being inserted first and go around it several times 3/4 inch up the tube.

Insert tube into blank half way and upend it onto a piece of cardboard pressing the tube into the blank, this should take about 1 second. This eliminates playing around with it trying to insert it exactly so.

Place aside to dry, push out the Playdoh and use a tapered file to clean the end of the tube.

Medium or Thick CA will work better than thin.

Never had one get stuck in the blank with this method.


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## sbell111 (May 10, 2014)

nativewooder said:


> In my humble opinion, CA glue has many uses, but gluing tubes in blanks is not one of them.  I have used high quality slow cure epoxy (24 hour) when I can find it.  If you insist on using CA glue in ways it is not meant to be used, then buy extra tubes and extra blanks while you learn.  Woodturning is a wonderful hobby, in all its' forms and I wish you much good fortune in the future.:wink:



I can't think of a better 'on-label' use for CA than gluing tubes into wood blanks.  If you argued that finishing wasn't what CA was made for, I'd be with you 100%.  Gluing in tubes, on the other hand, is CA's bailiwick.


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## Phillip Kelley (May 10, 2014)

*Locktite...*

I was going to run out to the shop and double check the brand but I am pretty sure I'm correct....they have thin and this gel that I have been using which is similar to the thick CA.  It is a little more expensive but I just prefer the smaller quantities...now about that hammer; lol,  I have moved  around a little too slow & on occasion have had to gently tap the tube!  I will agree that if you are using the thin CA it may get stuck part way inserted and a strong hammer blow would be too much..





plantman said:


> Phillip Kelley said:
> 
> 
> > I use the gel glue from Wal Mart & keep a small hammer close just in case it doestn't slide in quickly...
> ...


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## sbell111 (May 10, 2014)

My gluing station is right next to a bench vise.  If a tube sticks, it gets a squeeze in the vise.  Usually, this pops the tube in without a problem.  Sometimes, it bends the end of the tube a bit.  That's generally repairable, however.


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## switch62 (May 10, 2014)

Your tubes are too tight in the hole.  You have to allow for the thickness of the CA between the tube and hole.

I make my holes large enough so that a tube will fall through when the blank is held vertically (without being too loose). To make the hole bigger, I run the drill bit through the blank applying some side pressure while rotating the blank(by hand), or fine sandpaper on a dowel.

I also use thick CA as it takes longer to set and will fill any gaps.  I use a tube insertion tool, put the tube on it, cover the top half of the tube all around with thick CA, then insert the tube with a twisting motion.  Enough CA gets squeezed out to cover the lower half of the tube completely.  You will get a lot of overflow that will drip off, newspaper to protect floor/bench.  I leave the insertion tool in until the CA sets enough to hold the tube (otherwise you can inadvertently pull the tube out).  I just wiggle the tool to loosen and break any CA bond to it.

CA sets when it absorbs moisture from the air and materials it is in contact with.  When you have a thick blob of CA it takes time for the moisture to penetrate all the way through the blob, so it will stay liquid longer. (Actually becomes a mixture of set CA particles and unset liquid).  If you squeeze the CA into a thin film the moisture penetrates faster.  Thicker CAs have additives that slow the setting process as well as making it thicker.


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## kovalcik (May 11, 2014)

When I saw the title of the post "Tubes stuck in blanks" my first thought was "Isn't that where you want them?".


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## Gumbercules563 (May 11, 2014)

One thing I didn't see was.  Once you have drilled the blank and let it cool, redrill your blank.  If it warped a little or shrank a little while cooling redrilling will fix it.  I know that a few of my split blanks (after being turned and finished  ) split because of shrinkage when the wood cooled down around the pen tube.  I can't prove that, however looking back on many of them I do remember having to use more pressure to seat the tube.  
As far as the CA goes I use med directly one the pen tube.  I make a wiggly line from the inserted end up to about 1/2 way.  As I put it in I am doing a twisting - pushing - twisting - pulling motion to coat the pen tube.  You do need to be quick but 2 seconds is plenty of time.  Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.  Just don't stop.  Good luck.


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## Harpazo (May 12, 2014)

There is a CA that is formulated to give the joint more flex.  I would think that would make CA a good tube-to-wood glue.  I've only used the ordinary types for this application.  CSUSA sells Insta-Bond Flexible for this but I've not yet tried it.

What I currently prefer is System 3 company's 5 minute epoxy for tubes.  I'd rather look down the road to what my customer might have to deal with after 6 months of hard use.  That's when things start to fall apart from poor glue joints.  I also hesitate to use PolyUrethane Glues (such as G-rilla).  Using expoxy is a bit more of a pain but I trust it.  PolyUrethane glues have proven to me to fail.  I believe Franklin International, a.k.a Titebond, has product spec sheets etc. online and make fair comparisons between products.  They manufacture every imaginable type of adhesive. 

With CA I've had some nice ebony bands on a slimline pen crack partly off leaving a large 1/4" void and showing the brass tube.  Not good if you're looking for repeat sales or have a cherished gift pen fall apart after it's been used it a bit.   Although ebony WILL most certainly crack (the way I used it), as long as it stays on the tube and looks good I'm cool.


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## Wood Butcher (May 12, 2014)

Saw off the part stickin out and put it in the other end.
WB


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## Lathemaster (May 14, 2014)

Wood Butcher said:


> Saw off the part stickin out and put it in the other end.
> WB



YADM

Yet another Dahhhh Moment


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## bedangerous (May 14, 2014)

Rubber mallet works for me.  Mitch


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## jcm71 (May 14, 2014)

Wood Butcher said:


> Saw off the part stickin out and put it in the other end.
> WB



Sorry, gotta disagree.  While it does solve the immediate problem, you are leaving yourself wide open for a dissatisfied customer down the road.  The brass tube provides strength to the pen.  If a completed pen has two "1/2" tubes inserted in it, eventually the pen is going to break where they meet, as it is only being supported by as little as 1/16" material around the circumference.  You leave yourself wide open for establishing a reputation for shoddy workmanship.

For my money, the best bet is to throw the blank and tube into some acetone until the the tube comes out.

My $.02


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