# Celtic Knott - Amature Style



## Jgrden (Oct 13, 2010)

Well my first attempt at a knott failed. Ivory and Ebony but how the heck to you get those lines to match up????


----------



## tomas (Oct 13, 2010)

Here is a great tutorial.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9uQv5sKibk


----------



## jttheclockman (Oct 13, 2010)

John

Its all about the glue up

If you are cutting all  the way through your blank you need to put the pieces back in the same order and perfectly in line. Some people just cut enough so that there is about an 1/8" piece of material left. Then when they slide the inlay material in it just fits tightly and clamp it. The aligning part is done for you  then. The catch  with this system is you need to be very precise with the inlay material matching the thicknes of the kerf the saw blade  cuts. There are articles in the library explaining this. Also there are videos on utube that explain it well also.


----------



## tankerman (Oct 13, 2010)

Not a bad start.... Take your time and try and try you will get it


----------



## alphageek (Oct 13, 2010)

The above answers are right... The short and simple answer is that your inlays must match the thickness of your blade.


----------



## Russianwolf (Oct 13, 2010)

jttheclockman said:


> John
> 
> Its all about the glue up
> 
> If you are cutting all  the way through your blank you need to put the pieces back in the same order and perfectly in line. Some people just cut enough so that there is about an 1/8" piece of material left. Then when they slide the inlay material in it just fits tightly and clamp it. The aligning part is done for you  then. The catch  with this system is you need to be very precise with the inlay material matching the thicknes of the kerf the saw blade  cuts. There are articles in the library explaining this. Also there are videos on utube that explain it well also.



Regardless of technique used to assemble, thickness of the inlay must match that of the kerf or the lines won't match up. The reason being is that when you make that first cut, you'll be fine regardless of thickness., but the second cut, if the inlay doesn't match the kerf, it will move the first cut out of alignment.


----------



## monophoto (Oct 13, 2010)

alphageek said:


> The above answers are right... The short and simple answer is that your inlays must match the thickness of your blade.



I had the same problem on my first celtic knot - it was supposed to be a bottle stopper.  I couldn't stand the thought of throwing it away, so it's not a fob on my key ring.

The error in the first cut is equal to the difference between the width of the saw kerf and the thickness of the inlay, divided by the sine of the angle of the cut.  And the error accumulates with each additional cut.  

So you must make the thickness of the inlay exactly match the width of the saw kerf.


----------



## spnemo (Oct 13, 2010)

1. To make everything easier use an oversized blank (longer and thicker)
2. Do not cut all the way through the blank but be sure you cut to within 1/8" from the end.
3. Be sure your inlay material (plus glue) completely fills the cut without expanding it.
4. Practice on scrap material.

This one took me three tries and it still isn't perfect:


----------



## Jgrden (Oct 13, 2010)

spnemo said:


> 1. To make everything easier use an oversized blank (longer and thicker)
> 2. Do not cut all the way through the blank but be sure you cut to within 1/8" from the end.
> 3. Be sure your inlay material (plus glue) completely fills the cut without expanding it.
> 4. Practice on scrap material.
> ...


Thank you, 

I noticed the deer pedicle that your pen rested on, in the photo. I have been saving them as I cut antler. I am not sure what to do with them except to make pendants. What do you do with yours?


----------



## Jgrden (Oct 13, 2010)

I see. I will now try to cut without going through and then fill the voids. Whoda thunk??


----------



## spnemo (Oct 13, 2010)

Jgrden said:


> spnemo said:
> 
> 
> > 1. To make everything easier use an oversized blank (longer and thicker)
> ...


 

I save them for accent bands in pens or pen stands.  I am thinking of saving up a bunch for a multi-layered pen.


----------



## Jgrden (Oct 13, 2010)

Thank you Sean.,


----------



## randyrls (Oct 13, 2010)

Jgrden said:


> I see. I will now try to cut without going through and then fill the voids. Whoda thunk??



John;  I created a jig some time ago to help cut the blanks and inlays.
http://content.penturners.org/articles/2008/celticknotjig.pdf

The important concept is that the lead screw allows to to precisely cut inlays for the bands.

If you are using a table saw, try a 7-1/4" circular saw blade.  They are narrower than the standard or even the thin kerf 10" blades.  Mine is .075"


----------



## Bigdaddy (Oct 13, 2010)

You can also use Evergreen styrene sheets to add thickness to whatever you are using. If your inlay is thinner than the blade kerf you can add to it to match the kerf.  It only comes in black and white but the thickness starts at .05" and goes up from there.

Check it out:
http://www.evergreenscalemodels.com/Sheets.htm

You should be able to pick it up at most hobby shops.

Steve in Ottawa


----------



## jttheclockman (Oct 14, 2010)

Jgrden said:


> I see. I will now try to cut without going through and then fill the voids. Whoda thunk??


 


One other good tip is to go to Home Depot or Lowes and get yourself a piece of aluminum angle. I use this when clamping my blanks back together because it will always give me the straight edge that is needed to keep all things lined up. I just place some wax paper between the blank and the angle to keep it from sticking to the angle.

In no time you will be changing the title of your post to PRO knots.  Thanks for showing and good luck. Look forward to seeing the progress.

I need to get back to make some more of these because I have a few ideas I want to try also. 

At some point you want to try something like these.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/JTTHECLOCKMAN/reheartsierra-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/JTTHECLOCKMAN/yellowheartsierra-1.jpg


----------



## Larry in Harrow (Oct 14, 2010)

jttheclockman said:


> Jgrden said:
> 
> 
> > I see. I will now try to cut without going through and then fill the voids. Whoda thunk??
> ...


 

Hi John,

Glad to see you got the harlequin knot to work. Haven't heard from you since those days on Penturner's Paradise. Did you ever try the "Stained Glass Windows" knot I suggested. Should be easy now with all the great acrylics available.

Or you could try this:


----------



## jttheclockman (Oct 14, 2010)

Larry in Harrow said:


> jttheclockman said:
> 
> 
> > Jgrden said:
> ...


 




Hi Larry. 

 I have not been to that site for a long time. Did not have a good experience there thanks to a few  and would rather not relive that experience. This is a more gentle site and very friendly willing to share group here for sure.

I do remember our conversations and you were the one responsible for me getting started with the knots and thank you for all the help. I try to pass some of the things on. 

It is so funny you brought up the stained glass look because that is one of the things I still want to try as I just mentioned there are a few things I want to experiment with. There are a couple others too and I have a metal blank all glued up with this technique but too scared to turn it. :biggrin:

I see you posted your latest creation and still marvel at the workmanship behind these. This is taking knot making to the next level. Thanks for showing and saying HI.


----------



## Larry in Harrow (Oct 14, 2010)

jttheclockman said:
			
		

> ;1107310Hi Larry.
> 
> I have not been to that site for a long time. Did not have a good experience there thanks to a few and would rather not relive that experience. This is a more gentle site and very friendly willing to share group here for sure.
> 
> ...


 
"Scared to turn it"? Go for it John. It's only a chunk of metal as it sits. Could be something great!
I quit that other forum as well, same reason. Haven't done a segmented knot for quite a while. I think the harlequins were the last I did but I still think the "stained glass" idea will work with the right choice of materials.


----------



## jttheclockman (Oct 14, 2010)

Larry in Harrow said:


> jttheclockman said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Yea I know. I am thinking I may want to add some banding before I drill and spin it though.

Sorry to hear you too were overcome by some of the arrogance over there. Better group here. You should actually put some of your tutorials in the library here. I bet others would find them useful.


----------



## Larry in Harrow (Oct 14, 2010)

jttheclockman said:


> Yea I know. I am thinking I may want to add some banding before I drill and spin it though.



I know what you mean John.  It's the old "to enhance or not to enhance" quandary.  Got lots of blanks sitting around in that exact same black hole.


----------



## gwilki (Oct 19, 2010)

Larry says, "or you could try this", like it's as easy as falling off a log.    His hand carved knots are incredible pieces, not for the faint of heart.


----------



## Rfturner (Nov 6, 2010)

that is incredible I have never seen teh harlequin knot but that it amazing


----------



## ctubbs (Nov 7, 2010)

I still have my first attempt at the celtec knot.  I learned something important with that one, if the blank gets drilled off center, the knot just dosen't work right!:redface:  All your work is too beautiful for words.  I still love to watch a craftsman at work.:biggrin:

Charles


----------



## Chthulhu (Nov 7, 2010)

I hate to nitpick, but most of what I'm seeing here are not Celtic knots, but Lissajous curves.


----------



## ericw95 (Nov 8, 2010)

Although in your eyes you failed, I like the end result.  I am looking forward to trying this someday.


----------

