# Snake Pen blank wasted....



## txcwboy (Apr 22, 2009)

I have always wanted to do a Prairie Rattle Snake skin pen but didnt like the prices . I finally picked one up online from a friend of this board I believe. Didnt come with any turning instructions. I turned it like any of the other plastics Ive turned. Turned down to about 1/16th of inch left of material. Resharpened gouge.... Chunked out down to the skin. Small spot, tried to fix with CA glue. Went to upper barrel and Same thing ! Big chunk , tried to fix it with CA glue. Had to finish the rest of the pen with Sandpaper trying to recover the blank. Looks like crap though. Kinda sad now...wasted 18 bucks and it was gonna be so pretty   What is the turning method for these Casted clear blanks ? 

Thanks

Dave


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## seawolf (Apr 22, 2009)

Maybe not all is lost ask if any of the resin casters can recast for you. Then check with the supplier the proper kit to use with the blanks. Someone else may tell you more here about the proper kit and turning.
Hope this helps, Mark


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## IPD_Mrs (Apr 22, 2009)

A scary sharp skew taking small amounts at a time.  A gouge really isnt the tool for that type of blank.


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## Russianwolf (Apr 22, 2009)

I get my best skins form Exoticblanks.com

Turning them..... Go slow and use a very sharp skew. The last little bit, I use the skew in a scrapper position.


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## ed4copies (Apr 22, 2009)

As a matter of course, you should "sneak up on" your final dimension.  You can always take more off with sandpaper, but putting it back on is harder.

PARTICULARLY the caps can be VERY close.  For those who are just starting to turn "embedded objects" like snakeskins, the Sierra, particularly the Sierra Vista allow the most room for practice.   Also, if your lathe (or bushings) is running slightly out of round - you are pretty much screwed.  

Just a few ideas.   And yes, the skin can be recast (usually) with better than CA results.  Although CA CAN be great, if you get lucky!!

Yes, I have messed up a bunch of them and yes, I have tried every idea I can think of, with differing results.


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## alphageek (Apr 22, 2009)

Ed would be the expert here... But I would also agree 100% with the others notes... A skew is a better tool for acrylics (my gouge gets no use at all these days on any material).... 

Dawn's snakes are fabulous - if you get up to trying another, I'd suggest hers (actually I just turned my last snake at the moment - a copperhead) as I have loved every one.   

I would suggest buying or requesting a practice (non-cast) blank if you havn't turned one of her acrylics.. That way you can get a feel for it first before you risk another snake.

But first - is there a reason you use a gouge?  Have you tried a skew?   It is worth the practice to get it right.. Now there isn't an acrylic that scares me anymore!  Even the certain 'brand' that many are afraid of and some won't go near.


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## Fred (Apr 22, 2009)

Use the skew! It is an amazing tool once you get it mastered ... and the ONLY way to master it is to use it and use it often. 

I prefer the 1" oval as I find the rounded edges of the shaft allow better movement along the tool rest. The square edged tool just "bites" into the tool rest a bit to much for me. 

You MUST keep the tool scary sharp throughout the entire turning process as well. This will also reduce the amount of final sanding when you get the blank turned to shape.
Now, right now, get up and go buy a skew! Make sure to get one with a long handle as this will also increase your comfort level tremendously! :biggrin:


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## KenV (Apr 23, 2009)

It is a secret -- but system three 5 minute clear epoxy can fix it ---   and it turns and finishes just like the polyester resin.


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## Rudy Vey (Apr 23, 2009)

Never use a gouge when you go that close to the final dimensions, especially with a plastic! Carefully use a skew and take very light cuts. I use the skew like a scraper, i.e. horizontal - and this has worked for me for many years.


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## ed4copies (Apr 23, 2009)

All these comments are ABSOLUTELY correct.  HOWEVER, if you are happy with your gouge and don't WANT to learn to skew - 80 -150 grit will do your "final turning" successfully.

BTW, this technique will also WORK if your lathe is out of round.  The skew MAY not.


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## Russianwolf (Apr 23, 2009)

ed4copies said:


> BTW, this technique will also WORK if your lathe is out of round.  The skew MAY not.



Ed, My lathe isn't anywhere near being round. Should I fix it? :tongue:


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## ed4copies (Apr 23, 2009)

Russianwolf said:


> Ed, My lathe isn't anywhere near being round. Should I fix it? :tongue:




Naaah, we've grown accustomed to your oval pens!!


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## baker4456 (Apr 23, 2009)

I use a gouge but I turn it side ways so I am actually cutting the material. I cast my own skins and other things. But, no matter what tool you use it has to be sharp and little thin cuts. I gues I'm a little different because I learned to use a gouge when I first started turning and used it for every thing. But I think after all this talk I might give the skew a try.


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## babyblues (Apr 23, 2009)

I would watch Ed Davidson's videos in the Library here at IAP, specifically the one where he makes a bottle stopper from one of his EPR blanks.  I've used that technique with a skew for turning kaleidoscopes from Ed's PR kaleidoscope blanks and it works beautifully.


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## NewLondon88 (Apr 23, 2009)

baker4456 said:


> I use a gouge but I turn it side ways so I am actually cutting the material.



Ah.. that's how I use it, too. I cut with the 'wings' or .. sides of the flute?
Dunno.. but that's how I use it. It doesn't scrape, although I can do that too.
But if I even whisper the word 'skew' then somewhere in the shop 
.. a blank explodes. If I have no blanks in the shop, then in the place
next door, a chair leg explodes.
I don't want no skew..:tongue:


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## ldb2000 (Apr 23, 2009)

What's this gouge thingy you guys are talking about ? You mean to tell me there are other kinds of turning tools besides a scary sharp skew ?
:wink::biggrin:


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## NewLondon88 (Apr 23, 2009)

ldb2000 said:


> What's this gouge thingy you guys are talking about ? You mean to tell me there are other kinds of turning tools besides a scary sharp skew ?
> :wink::biggrin:



It's that thing that came with your beginner chisel set but you never
opened it.

Since we're talking about gouges and snake skins, here's a few pics of
FakeSkin*  blanks I made and turned with a roughing gouge, wet
sanded with 400, wet micromeshed to 12000 and then did a quick 
PlastX polish.
(just to show that yes, you can do it with a roughing gouge, and
yes, you can polish up Alumilite to a gloss)

*FakeSkin .. SnakeSkin Blanks for Vegans


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## txcwboy (Apr 23, 2009)

I have used a gouge with decent results for a long time. I do have a scraper that I use to finish with but it wasnt doing a thing to this stuff. And I did buy it from Her . I have looked for a rounded corner skew but havent found one. I see lines inside that look like "cracks" or stress lines near where it broke.So I dont think I can be recast. No one mentioned speed. What speed should it be at ? I ll get the skew and try another sometime.

THANKS

Dave


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## ed4copies (Apr 23, 2009)

Speed is relative. Most of us go as fast as the lathe can travel. BUT, we are COMFORTABLE at that speed. Once you have the blank round, speed becomes MUCH less important. 

When rounding, the lower the speed, the more your tool will "chatter": Making turning uncomfortable, noisy and more likely to crack the blank. Again, a belt sander can take off the square edges and make your life easier.

As someone else (Dean, I think) said, order some other polyresin blanks (inexpensive) and get comfortable turning it, THEN go after skins.  They ARE more "temperamental" than regular PR>


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## workinforwood (Apr 24, 2009)

I gouge the skin all the way with no problems. I gouge everything and don't have many blow outs.  You have to go real light when  you get almost done.  I would not use CA to fix a clear blow out because if you put the CA on thick, it tends to cloud or get white bubbles and pits in it.  Sending it to someone to re-cast is one option.  Another is to use Clear inlace, which is almost the same as PR.  Just mix it up..let it sit in the cup for about 5 minutes to start curing, but not cured of course..then with a little baggy on your finger, apply the inlace nice and thick over the blow outs..thicker than the pen is going to be.  Do this on the lathe between centers.  Stand there and turn the lathe by hand for about 5 minutes until the Inlace is set up enough it won't flow anymore.  Give it all day to fully cure before you go back and spin it down.  It will completely hide the damage.  Since you put CA on it now..you might never get it back 100%..but maybe you will.  I would try and scrape away and clean off the CA.


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## KenV (Apr 24, 2009)

I have a couple of snake skin blanks that were sitting after blowing them a couple of year ago.  I had tried CA with failure -- turned white over a few months.  I tried and had success with small chips using System Three clear epoxy (5 minute cure type) so put the snake skins back on the lathe and slowly carefully turned away the PR around the breaks.  I got all but one small crack to clear.  I have used the system three epoxy to rebuild above the "turn line" in about 3 "lifts"   The little crack catches light from an angle but will be under the clip --  

Will these be premium pens - no, but they will make good users for friends and family.  

I noted small bubbles in the epoxy when mixed, but that seems to clear in the curing process.  

I have been having excellent success with a Hunter style cup carbide tool for roughing resin blanks.   It seems to handle the the rounding (working the ends first) as long as I avoid agression -- steady lighter cuts and listen to the tool.  Starts to hum move the tool rest in.  

This is one of those places (and there are others) where CA is not the best approach.


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## mdburn_em (Apr 24, 2009)

I don't do a lot of snakeskin and my skew work is marginal.  So...  I get close with my shallow forged gouge and then let sand paper do the rest of the work.  It doesn't take long to sand the blank down to size.


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## txcwboy (Apr 24, 2009)

I found a 1/2 round scraper. It needs to be sharpened. Should it have  a burr on the top side ?I sharpened at it and it doesnt "feel "sharp.

Dave


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## NewLondon88 (Apr 24, 2009)

txcwboy said:


> I found a 1/2 round scraper. It needs to be sharpened. Should it have  a burr on the top side ?I sharpened at it and it doesnt "feel "sharp.
> Dave



I wouldn't think a burr would do you any good on a round scraper, but
I'm not sure. It just seems like if you're riding the bevel, the burr wouldn't
be in contact with the wood anyway. But .. that's just my thinking, I'm
no expert.

BTW.. what's a half round scraper? Do you mean something like a bowl
scraper?


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## rwyoung (Apr 25, 2009)

Do you mean a 1/2" round nose scraper?  As I understand lathe tools, all those that are specifically designed for scraping are best sharpened so that they have a burr as the cutting edge.  Just like a card scraper for flat-work.


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## txcwboy (Apr 25, 2009)

I ll have to take a pic of it I guess.   Any links to the tool I am suppose to use on this type stuff ? 

Dave


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## txcwboy (Apr 29, 2009)

here is the tool I think yall are talking about. ? If not  show me a picture.

Dave


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## NewLondon88 (Apr 29, 2009)

OK, round nose scraper.

On the burr, there's different trains of thought. Some use it, some don't.
The way I was told to use the scraper is handle down so that the bevel
is riding against the work. In that position, the burr wouldn't be touching
the wood (again.. that's what I THINK .. no expert) I've used burrs on
tools (very sharp!) but it means holding the handle above horizontal so that
the burr, which is on the top side of the tool, can cut. In this position, you
are essentially holding the tool below the work.. something I've been told
NEVER to do.
  Of course, I never heard a good explanation why not.. so I've done it.
I've also used card scrapers on bowls, so what do I know?

I think that when you sharpen, you'll produce a burr anyway. Some take
this off with a slipstone, some do not.


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## txcwboy (Apr 30, 2009)

I read your suppose to use a Skew with rounded corners. So what Skew is it ? I ll buy one just need to know what they are talking about . I havent found it online.

Dave


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## juteck (Apr 30, 2009)

for skews, I use a P&N - it is not oval, but has a rounded bottom edge. I've had good luck with all the P&N tools I've used - they take a good edge, and hold the edge longer then my Sorby tools:

http://www.packardwoodworks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=tools-pn-skewch


http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/s...indle_Tools___P_N___P_N_Skew_Chisel___pn_skew



Doug Thompson tools also get top reviews, but I have not tried his yet. based on the reviews I've read, I would consider this one pretty seriously:

http://www.thompsonlathetools.com/tooltype.asp?TYPE=SK


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## alphageek (Apr 30, 2009)

txcwboy said:


> I read your suppose to use a Skew with rounded corners. So what Skew is it ? I ll buy one just need to know what they are talking about . I havent found it online.
> 
> Dave


I started out with a skew with square corners, and still use is at times  - but I picked up this one (also available at woodturningz) and love it...  This is my #1 tool now even considering its price.   I may actually pick up a 2nd one just to not have to sharpen it as often so I can just pick up a sharp one if I'm in the middle of a blank and its not sharp enough.

http://www.pennstateind.com/store/LX030.html


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## diamundgem (Apr 30, 2009)

I find the snake skins very hard (material) and the hardest to turn of any blanks. I use a shew for close up work. keep it very sharp. When nearing the finish size I use sand paper  to bring it to size. If it should blow ,I use 2 part epoxy. Let it dry several hours before turning again and finishing. You can' see the repair.


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## NewLondon88 (Apr 30, 2009)

(shameless plug ..)
Depending on the kit (I don't have them for all pen types yet) you could
re-cast a broken, blown-out or overturned blank with one of the molds
I'm working on. They're kit specific. You mount the tubes in the mold and
pour more resin. That would allow you to recover from broken blanks or
add more resin to an overturned blank. It won't, however, fix a cut skin..:tongue:


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## Kaspar (Apr 30, 2009)

Haven't read the entire thread, so this may be redundant, and some of this  may seem to be a keen grasp of the obvious, but I'm slow, so I beg your  patience.  

Removing material from a blank is a very violent act, even  with a scary sharp tool.  The harder the material, the more violence required,  and the more brittle the material, the more likely that violent removal will  have unintended consequences.  So the first thing to realize is that the most  dangerous parts of a blank are the ends.  While removing stock, the middle has  the support of the surrounding material.  The ends do not.  Most woods are very  forgiving about this.  Hard, brittle materials are not.  

Purists may  rightly take issue with some of this, but snake blanks are expensive  and hopelessly cool, and my time is valuable, so I have developed an  aggressive, zero blow-outs process for getting snakes done quickly:

First, I trim the blank along the flattest side, to  get one perfectly flat side.  Then, I have a jig that allows me to mount the  blank, bushings and all, aligning the blank along the centerline of the tube, regardless of  far off from 90 degrees any side of the casting was.  Using the mic head on my saw, I set the trimming distance (with the jig I only have to do this once, because the centerline of the tube is the referent) and knock each side down, pretty close to the bushings.   Takes five  minutes to do this, and I will have removed most of the material one would  normally remove on the lathe with a chisel.

 Then, on the lathe, I use a heavy (40 grit) belt sander paper to round off  the hard edges, and I knock them down quite far.  Any hard, square edge on a  piece of brittle material is, like the tube ends, dangerous territory.  Go in  even a little too deep with a chisel and you could break off more material than  you intended.

Then, the chisels.  I have a small Sorby gouge that works  fine for me (the best turners here have recommend mastering the skew, and I am  learning it, but for now, I use the gouge.)  In removing stock, I start with the most dangerous part first, while the chisel is sharpest (and of course, resharpen periodically).  I  go at the edges from a 45 degree angle to the centerline, (not directly from the side) so that  there is some support on both sides of the cut, until I get perfect roundness at  the edges.  Then I'll work from either side toward the center of the bank,  decreasing the angle until I'm finally coming at it from 90 degrees to the  blank.

Normally, I would say the purists are absolutely right; in all but a few cases, using sandpaper to remove a lot of stock is a bad idea. For one thing, it's a cheat, and it ruins the point and the fun of the lathe. For another, if your blank isn't round, the sand paper won't fix that. The objective referent for roundness is the edge of a chisel supported by the tool rest.  However, in the case of snake blanks (and also Micapearls,) I am not above  using 50 grit Gator paper to remove stock, though I usually do this only when I  hear that sound (you all know it, I'd guess) that means I got a bit too  aggressive and put a nice ring of pits around the blank.  But get back to the chisel as soon as that's been smoothed over.  And of course, keep checking for air bubbles as you go, and fill them once they're exposed. 

Hope this is helpful.  It certainly works well for me.


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## txcwboy (May 5, 2009)

Turns out I have a 1 1/4 inch Skew. I just was using it as a scaper and thought it was a scaper


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## jwtrumbo (May 27, 2009)

Eric, I would be interested in how you made your jig? It sounds like the best way to work casting blanks. I have been lucky :biggrin: I picked up a couple snake skin blanks from Arizona Silhouette and a couple of pheasant feather blanks from JohnU. I have not had a blow out (YET) but came close on a feather blank.


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## Kaspar (May 27, 2009)

Simple enough, eh?  The back butts up against your rip fence.  The slotted mandrel rod holder allows you accommodate the varying sizes of the blank, and the changes in size as you cut it down.  It must be exactly the width of the mandrel rod.  Not shown is the block of wood that fits in the slot between the two arms for pinning down the blank as you push it through the cut.  It also keeps important things away from the saw blade.  The block is good.  Yes.  It is. 

Also, should you fail to make the space between the arms wide enough to accommodate a Sierra or Carbara length blank AND their relevant bushings, you can get around that by using your barrel trimming shim inside the tube.  It's the same principle: align the blank along the centerline of the tube.


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