# Comparison of High End kits



## BarrierBob (Nov 1, 2009)

Just a question for all of you that make those"High End "Pens. What is the quality comparison between, let's say Emperor,Statesman,Imperial and Lotus, with Magestic, and Septre. I'm not relly looking at just individual cost of kit, but the true quality of components that are in those kits. Considering moving up to a few High End type kits, but it's a big step for this price range. I know that the fit and finish is important not matter what pen you make, but that initial kit cost is a factor for all of us, I would think. There are alot of fantistic pens made by IAP members and I really respect, the opinions I see here.


----------



## BarrierBob (Nov 2, 2009)

Oh Come on now. I can't believe that No One has at least an opinion.


----------



## Texatdurango (Nov 2, 2009)

BarrierBob said:


> Just a question for all of you that make those"High End "Pens. What is the quality comparison between, let's say Emperor,Statesman,Imperial and Lotus, with Magestic, and Septre. I'm not relly looking at just individual cost of kit, but the true quality of components that are in those kits. Considering moving up to a few High End type kits, but it's a big step for this price range. I know that the fit and finish is important not matter what pen you make, but that initial kit cost is a factor for all of us, I would think. There are alot of fantistic pens made by IAP members and I really respect, the opinions I see here.


 
I have no idea what a Septre is but the quality on the others is about the same and usually several notches above the intermediate kits and a lot better than the cheaper kits. One thing to remember is that the prices on the Craft Supply is 75% of the listed prices when done in a group buy so that $50 kit isn't so bad at $37.50 and any of these pens will easily sell at $150 +.


----------



## BarrierBob (Nov 2, 2009)

george, thanks so much for your input. The kit is the Nouveau Sceptre- Penn State. I guess the main reason for the comparison is that P.S is offering starter kits, and they are what seems to be a good deal. Sometimes, things aren't how they look. I have started to switch over to mandrel-less turning with JohnnyCNC's bushings,(they are great), but not real cheap when you are switching over all types of kits. I figure if I try High End, do the best ones.  Again thanks for your input, it does help.  Bob


----------



## Rstyleusa (Nov 2, 2009)

Good Afternoon,

I have no experience with the Craft Supply kits, but I have heard that they are of good quality and I plan to try some out soon.  I do create a lot of the Majestic, Majestic Jr, and the Sceptre and I love the quality.  I have never had a customer complain about the finish on the kit and I have never had a flawed kit.  Their sale that they have with all the bushings, drill bit and kit is an awesome offer, I would jump on it if I needed it.

My 2 cents.


----------



## BarrierBob (Nov 2, 2009)

Thanks for the reply. I looked your site, great looking pens. Your work really compliments the kits.


----------



## OKLAHOMAN (Nov 2, 2009)

I've made a few of the Nouveau Sceptre and as far as quality, its on an equal footing with the Jr. Statesman from CSUSA and the pen is way out of balance when posted and the center band looks cheap IMHO. I know George doesn't like the way the clip at times has to be filed, (about 1 in 30 in my case) but it makes a very nice mid to lower high end pen. The Emperor also from CSUSA again has great quality and just is more versatile  compared to the Majestic from Penn because it doesn't have that awful crystal in the clip which most men don't like.


----------



## BarrierBob (Nov 2, 2009)

Roy, I agree with the balance issue of the Nouveau Sceptre and the center band looks alittle wide to me. I guess now I'll ask for opinions on which is a good "High End" to start out with? I guess it will come down to $$ and personal preferances. I think overal I perfer the CSUSA line of kits overall.  great info. from all concerned, thanks.


----------



## Munsterlander (Nov 2, 2009)

Among that set I think you're going to find comparable quality with just the occasional annoyance (e.g., somebody posted a few months back about having to sand down the the piece on a majestic that goes in the lower end of the cap barrel - it was just a tad too big for the brass tube).  I had a Maj Jr. where some of the decorative Blk Tn stuff had some junk left on it where it seems some of the material didn't get cut cleanly - fortunately it snapped/brushed off cleanly.  Stuff happens.

(As an aside, I have to say I have not had a good experience with some of the PSI middle grade pens.  E.g., gold TN tycoons - bought about 10 at some point and darned if almost every single one of them didn't have flaws in the plating.  Similar experience with gold tn gatsbys.  Frustrating as I've got two sets of some of the prettiest barrels I've ever come up with just waiting to finally get a clean gold tn tycoon kit.  After a while I get really tired of calling in with problems and getting that skeptical voice on the other end of the line.  So I don't buy much of anything from them anymore outside of rhodium execs (a favorite) and the occasional majestic.)

Anyway, to me it boils down to taste.  I personally don't like the Majestics as much, they just seem "too much" to me - but I've made them and sold them to people who thought they were just the most awesome things.  I personally think the Lotus is similarly a little overwrought (1 too many bands in the middle, wish all the bands were narrower), though I did buy a few with the closeout price (better get them while you can).  I prefer the Emperor Jr. as an upscale but not huge pen - although it is still a little busy for my tastes.  Statesmen Jr. is very nice. 

And George is right about price.  I just sold an Emperor Jr. fountain with very cool dialium cochin barrels for $160 and I know some of the serious turners on this site sell them for more.  I don't come across those kind of buyers often, but they're out there.


----------



## Texatdurango (Nov 2, 2009)

Bob, There is a problem on the horizon! Craft Supply is closing out their Top end kit, the Lotus and the gold Lotus kits are now sold out leaving only the black titanium kits which are nice looking kits and worth the closeout prices. 

I just read in another thread they are now considering closing out the Emperor. If they do, that will only leave the Imperial as their flagship pen with the statesman a step down. Personally I never liked the statesman, for it's size it's a pretty plain jane pen!

I just made my second Lotus today. look for it in the SOYP forum in a little bit... it's gonna be a stunner! (even if I do say so myself)


----------



## jedgerton (Nov 2, 2009)

I have a suggestion.  Try the Jr. Gentlemen's models from Craft Supply.  They are rather simple but high quality kits.  They don't have the bling factor that may or may not complement your work.  The are however high quality kits that result in high quality pen.

The other reason I suggest this type for starting out with higher end kits is that Jr. Gent, Jr. Retro, Jr. Statesman and Jr. Majestic all use the same tube sizes and the same bushings (I would have to confirm that last statement for the Jr. Majestic).

This would give you a reasonable space to experiment provided the Jr. sized pens are what you are looking for.

I have built many of these models and I've been quite pleased.  I recently tried a Baron model and was quite disappointed compared to the kits named above.

Just my two cents, your mileage may vary!

John


----------



## BarrierBob (Nov 2, 2009)

John, That sounds like a good idea. I have made a few Jr. Retro's, in fact I have the JohnneyCNC bushings for that kit. That gives you several variations, all about the same size. Sorry to hear that the CSUSA kits are dropping out, but there must be a reason, $$, right?


----------



## Russianwolf (Nov 3, 2009)

Bob, if you have the Jr. Retro bushings, you can use them to make the Jr. Gent and Jr. Statesman. They all use the same tubes and bushings.

You can even use the bushings for the Jr. Emperor, but you have to be careful on the lower blank as you need to size BOTH ends to the larger bushing size. No taper. That's how I made the three I bought without any problem.

Now, for the opinion part. I like the Stretch Fountain from Aaron (LauLauwoodwork) for an entry level fountain. I only get the Jr's as non-postable because of the balance issue mentioned, and I'd avoid the Scepter and Jr. Majestic for that same reason (only available as a postable)


----------



## ed4copies (Nov 3, 2009)

jedgerton said:


> I have a suggestion.  Try the Jr. Gentlemen's models from Craft Supply.  They are rather simple but high quality kits.  They don't have the bling factor that may or may not complement your work.  The are however high quality kits that result in high quality pen.
> 
> The other reason I suggest this type for starting out with higher end kits is that Jr. Gent, Jr. Retro, Jr. Statesman *and Jr. Majestic *all use the same tube sizes and the same bushings (I would have to confirm that last statement for the Jr. Majestic).
> 
> ...




Can anyone confirm this????

A PSI kit that crosses with CSUSA Jr Gent?????  Would be VERY interesting, if accurate!!!


----------



## dennisg (Nov 3, 2009)

The tubes are the same diameter. There is a smalll difference in length on the clip end. The bushing are different. I don't have the Majestic Jr kit now but I can measure the bushings if needed.


----------



## Munsterlander (Nov 3, 2009)

Majestic uses a 10.5mm bit for lower tube and .492in for upper

Gentlemen Jr, Retro use 10.5mm bit for lower tube and 12.5mm for upper (.492 inches = 12.4968 millimeters)

I've been using the PSI Majestic Jr. barrel trimming sleeves on CSUSA kits for the past year.

However, the bushing sizes are different - won't mix - recall that the jr gent and retro are thicker at the nib end than the lower end.

Maj Jr:  upper cap .550",  upper center .570", lower .516" both ends
Gent  Jr:  upper .567 both ends, lower nib end .512", other lower end .480


----------



## ed4copies (Nov 3, 2009)

Thank you!!

I was hoping it would give me another alternative.  Looks like you would have to "set out to" turn a Majestic Jr, then, if not satisfied, you could downgrade to the Jr. Gent, by taking off some more material.  

I will get the required kits and play.

Appreciate your help!!!


----------



## workinforwood (Nov 3, 2009)

I'd take a Jackson over an Emperor or Lotus pen any day of the week! Those babies are solid all the way through...like the good old days.


----------



## BarrierBob (Nov 3, 2009)

This may sound funny, but what's a Jackson?


----------



## workinforwood (Nov 3, 2009)

BarrierBob said:


> This may sound funny, but what's a Jackson?



It's a make your own kit from solid unplated metal.  You'll figure it out eventually.  He's damn good.


----------



## OKLAHOMAN (Nov 3, 2009)

Jackson........Just a hint.......a grown up rodent!


----------

