# Turning between center



## Firefyter-emt (Jan 13, 2008)

Thought from another post. If you have given a try at turning between centers, did it convert you? Or did you decide you did not like it and went back to a mandrel? And if so, why?


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## stevers (Jan 14, 2008)

To be honest, I have tried it, but only with a couple of pen styles. I love the accuracy. And the simplicity in mounting the blanks, no more mandrel and nuts to mess with. 
The problems I have are few, but big. First being the cost of converting all of my bushings over to mandrel free turning or BCB. The second being the fact that I can only turn one blank at a time. I like the idea of turning both blanks at once so I can see them together. Simply so I can compare shapes and insure the finish is the same.
I think this could really take off. As I replace bushings, I will decide at the time whether to convert to BCB bushings.
I can thank Lee for getting me involved. He supplied me with my first couple of sets of bushings. 7mm set and two sets of Sierras. And Lee, I have used the standard set, but not yet the casting set. Sorry. The Sierras on my post a while back were done with the standard set.
Good pole Lee.


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## Firefyter-emt (Jan 14, 2008)

That's the idea of the post buddy, no need to be sorry. I do want to clarify that I still turn maybe 80% of my pens with the original bushings. I plan to make my own new ones, but I think that the BCB is far better with stock bushings this way than with the mandrel still. 

I am curious what the poll will tell myself.


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## stevers (Jan 14, 2008)

Cool, cool.
BTW, your package will go out in the morning, how about mine?[][]

Kidding, I'm keeping track of your progress on the post. Don't get much time during the week any more anyway. Couple days a week, few hours a day is about all I get. So busy. Arrrrrrggggg!


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## Firefyter-emt (Jan 14, 2008)

I have four mills that have the drill chuck end and back side of the sander platen turned and the fourth one is on the lathe with about half of the mandrel end turned. Yours is second in line after that one is done. []

See that one in the middle? It's yours! []
www.yankeetoys.org/lee/114081.jpg


.


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## Ligget (Jan 14, 2008)

I am a convert for several months now, still use original bushings for most but bought special ones from Joe for Slimlines, Comfort and Europeans.[]

As many of you already know, I was previously using a Beall collet chuck to support my mandrels which was very accurate, but prefer between centres now.[]


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## stevers (Jan 14, 2008)

Awesome, he already has a home, his bed is waiting for him.


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## jwoodwright (Jan 14, 2008)

In the dark ages, there were mandrel points and one piece was turned at a time between centers.

It was fast, you could unlock tailstock and slide back, remove, measure, replace...  You could also easily flip and reverse sand.
Blanks would be so silky smooth...

I have a #2 MT Drill Driver for my 1st long Mandrel from Berea, Ordered it in 1999...


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## johnnycnc (Jan 14, 2008)

I have been using this method for over
a year,and will continue to do so.


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## Marc Phillips (Jan 14, 2008)

I am just waiting on the dead and live center I ordered to arrive... Looking forward to trying this out!


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## leehljp (Jan 14, 2008)

GREAT POLL! . . . and I know your intentions too! [] Is this what is called proselyting? Good job! 

Steve, I don't use the special bushings although I am going to get some one of these days from John. I really need some good Sierra bushings. Most of my other bushings do well, but I still would like to have the FINELY made ones by John.


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## hughbie (Jan 14, 2008)

i have thought of trying this, but like others, having to replaced every bushing would be annoying.  

for me, the main reason is that my lathe is such a cheapie, that my accuracy isn't the best, and i don't have a way to mount the dead center on the drive head.  heck, my lathe doesn't have a through hole to be able to knock tapers out.  one day, i'll move up to a better quality lathe.  but then, what should i expect for $130.  LOL


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## leehljp (Jan 14, 2008)

Just a NOTE: 

<b>IF YOU ALREADY HAVE BUSHINGS THAT YOU USE ON A MANDREL (other than slimlines) THEY WILL WORK WITH TURNING BETWEEN CENTERS!</b>

But specialized bushings for Between Centers do have better tolearances!


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## Rifleman1776 (Jan 14, 2008)

Hopefully, the poll means a 'no mandrel' method. I now use on all pens that are not 7mm styles.


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## Brewmeister35 (Jan 14, 2008)

Same as Frank.  I use centers for everything but 7mm tubes.


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## Rudy Vey (Jan 14, 2008)

Use mandrel-less turning between centers for some 4 weeks now, and I love it!! I make Statesman Jr, retros, Barons and Sierras with it. The only pen I use a mandrel with is the PFC.


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## Proud_Poppa_of_2 (Jan 14, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Brewmeister35_
> <br />Same as Frank.  I use centers for everything but 7mm tubes.



Just curious, but why not use centers with the 7mm tubes?  Is it just because they won't work with stock bushings or is there another reason?


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## Rifleman1776 (Jan 14, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Proud_Poppa_of_2_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...



Bushing for larger pens actually fit inside the tubes. Not so with 7mm that just butt the blank/tube.


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## opfoto (Jan 14, 2008)

Recently heard of this, but I have yet to try it. Will add to my list of round-to-its.


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## Proud_Poppa_of_2 (Jan 14, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Rifleman1776_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...



JohnnyCNC makes bushings that fit inside 7mm tubes, and I figured you knew that.  That's why I asked.


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## palmermethod (Jan 14, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Firefyter-emt_
> <br />Thought from another post. If you have given a try at turning between centers, did it convert you? Or did you decide you did not like it and went back to a mandrel? And if so, why?



I am still a Newbie but have tried turning without the mandrel and liked the fact that I seemed to have more elbow room on my midi. Plus my tool rest is just a little bit too long for comfortable turning with the mandrel. I'll probably fix that or get a new tool rest.

The final finishing was a breeze this way. Although I may need to get one of the disc sander jobbos to clean the glue from the ends.

Of course the more I turn the batter I get so maybe that has something to do with it. But I do know at least two different ways to pen turn and that ain't bad.  
 [8D]


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## mwenman (Jan 14, 2008)

I had ordered a dead and live center from Grizzley which got delivered today.  I didn't have a dead center and even the live center is much better than the stock one that comes with the Jet.  Figured that since I had these, I might as well give turning between centers a try.  The first thing I noticed before inserting a blank was that my headstock was not parallel to the ways and was rotated approx 1/16" or perhaps a little more. 

Anyway..once things were adjusted I inserted the first blank and after playing a bit with the quill on the tail stock and figuring out how much pressure to apply I began rounding out the blank. I tell you,  I really hadn't noticed how aggressive I was in the past when turning with the mandrel or even when doing segmented bowls, but it didn't take long to back off and use a much lighter touch.  

I'm definately converted now and in just a single run between centers, I can say that I have a much nicer finished product because it also forced me to adjust my turning techniques.  If you haven't tried it you definately should!

Mike


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## leehljp (Jan 14, 2008)

> Just curious, but why not use centers with the 7mm tubes?  Is it just because they won't work with stock bushings or is there another reason?





> Bushing for larger pens actually fit inside the tubes. Not so with 7mm that just butt the blank/tube.





> JohnnyCNC makes bushings that fit inside 7mm tubes, and I figured you knew that.  That's why I asked.



Since your join date in December 2007, it might be that you assumed that Johnnycnc's bushings have been widely known. NOT SO. Mandrelless turning and bushings for that method really began to be popularized only since this past summer. (It has been around but more of a huge rarity). Most people on this forum, even now, are probably still going "huh?" to the statements of mandrelless, between centers turning. Since you just joined, you probably noticed this right off. But most people have not. Frank has been well aware of this and got me turned on to it last spring. But even then, there were no bushings for mandrelless at that time. And especially for 7mm.

Frank's reply was to the question of _"why not use centers with the 7mm tubes?_ Yes, J.CNC does have a bushing and so does (or did) Lee, but that wasn't the question. There are no "stock" bushings commercially available from the major pen kit suppliers because the mandrel does what inside-the-tube bushings do for larger tubes.

The purpose of 7 mm bushings is for "sizing", not mandrel fit. Other bushings serve BOTH purposes, and as such can be used on the mandrelless method. Not so for normal 7mm bushings. Therefore using 7 mm tubes on centers as you asked is a very new thing.

I have used the centers for 7mm slims but I had to be careful because there is a very tenuous connection between the centers and the tube; slips easily; a <b>little</b> too much pressure and the tube is flared as well as the blank cracked on the end. Not so with bushings. But until just this summer no 7mm bushings have been available anywhere except to make your own. 

Without bushings and direct contact, sizing must be done entirely by calipers, which is what I always do anyway (and most good pen turners also.) 

A TIP on bushings: I think it was Lou or Russ that once said a long time ago that bushings were consumables - meaning they will be worn out, sanded down too much, scratched etc.


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## Firefyter-emt (Jan 14, 2008)

Hank hit it right on the head.  As my sig line relates, I am guilty of being a BCB pimp.  But I only do it because of just how much of a change it made in my pens.  

I do make my own bushings, but I do not market them because I do not have the time to make them and Johnnycnc has MUCH better tooling than I do.  I do recomend his bushings becasue they are far better than the stock ones based on how he makes them. However, I do not own any of his bushings myself! [:I] (Although, if I could not make my own, you better believe I would!)

I would not turn a 7mm pen between centers without tubes because it is just too thin to work with a chisel. I am even careful with sandpaper!

100% right on the money about using calipers though. I like to take my hardware and measure it, record it on a post-it note, and base my blank on that. (Less my film thickness allowance for a finish =&gt; .005)

Just so it is noted, I did not create this post to create sales for any proudcts. I am just curious as there seems to be some hesitation for some people to try this method, yet I had never heard someone say they did not like it. Maybe more people will give this method a try and improve thier pen crafting skills. []


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