# bullets in school



## mdl7070 (Jan 24, 2014)

Look for some thoughts .
My daughter wants me to make a bullet for for her boyfriend for valentines day.
With the way schools are i would hate to see him get in trouble if he takes it to school.   Any thoughts


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## Edgar (Jan 24, 2014)

I would check with the school regarding their policies on such things. If it would be considered contraband, then be sure to caution him not to take it to school.


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## Carl Fisher (Jan 24, 2014)

I won't sell bullet pens to parents if they even hint that it's for their kid. The schools have lost all common sense and all I need is for someone to get expelled because they brought one of my pens to school with them.


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## fitzman163 (Jan 24, 2014)

I made one for my son and it doesn't leave his room for the same stupid reason. Our country is going to hell. You never know when someone my put that pen in a 30 cal gun. lol


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## Cmiles1985 (Jan 24, 2014)

Watch out, he may unload an ink cartridge in class! I would advise him against taking it to school just because of the delicate nature of emotion surrounding schools now days. It's ridiculous that he MAY get in trouble over a pen, but that is just how sensitive and scared people are now. I have had the same thought about making them for my business customers due to the way refinery security and DHS are.


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## ossaguy (Jan 24, 2014)

I heard that a student who bit off his Pop-Tart to the shape of a gun was expelled....I wouldn't bring it to school.


Steve


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## lorbay (Jan 24, 2014)

I would say that there is a hell of a lot of worse stuff at schools than some little bullet pen. It's OK to have that crap in schools but OMG you can't have a pen that looks like a bullet.
Lin.


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## Charlie_W (Jan 24, 2014)

Just plain NO to the pen in school. Are you prepared to pay tuition for your child to attend school in another county? If you find one nearby that will accept a student with a weapons charge. Also, you would be responsible for transportation to and from that school.
This would of course be on their academic record.

NOT WORTH IT!


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## kruzzer (Jan 24, 2014)

you might want to speak with His parents to get their thoughts. Ultimately they will be responsible.


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## edstreet (Jan 24, 2014)

Guys please. Some intelligence is in order here. A bulletin pen is safe and legal everywhere and no reason to limit its use. Also keep in mind that 1/2 of the school problem is the parents at fault. 

The writing utensil is legal everywhere and it's usage needs to be encouraged. Fear is the mind killer, don't go down that road

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


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## Mike Powell (Jan 24, 2014)

I dont see where he could get into trouble using it.  No primer, no powder, with out those two there is no projectile.  

Ya'll say our country is going to hell, well dont enable it.  Take your pen to school.  Most of the teachers probably wouldnt even know it was a bullet casing.  Some of his teacher that do know will think it is cool.


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## Jim Smith (Jan 24, 2014)

I'm actually a bit surprised at some of the responses being posted.  While we all know that the pen being discussed represents no threat at all, the public education system in the United States has lost any common sense it may have once possessed, especially when it comes to guns or weapons.  We're in a time when a middle school student is expelled because there is a one inch cheap metal pistol on his key chain and second grader gets expelled from school because he brought a 2 inch tall green plastic Army man to school because the Army man had a one inch plastic gun in his hand. Really?  And you don't think a pen made from a real bullet will be an issue?  I suspect that if he were to bring that pen to school and other students see it and report it to the administrators, that boy will be expelled from school at the very least and the pen confiscated and destroyed.  Now a days, it could actually become an item on the local news channel.    I realize what I'm saying makes no logical sense, but that's because you're using common sense in your decision making that the school systems have completely lost.  Sorry, this would be a no-go item from me.

Jim Smith


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## Carl Fisher (Jan 24, 2014)

edstreet said:


> A bulletin pen is safe and legal everywhere and no reason to limit its use.



I hate that I even have to say this, but so are Pop Tarts and finger guns that have now ruined otherwise normal school records for some of these kids.



Mike Powell said:


> Ya'll say our country is going to hell, well dont enable it.



I don't think enabling is the issue. From my perspective, I have to protect my business and my personal assets. Schools are over-reaching and parents are lawyer happy especially when it comes to their children. It's CYA common sense regardless of my personal belief. I for one don't want to have to hire an attorney and spend days in court over a $65 pen sale.

It's my choice and my loss if I choose not to sell a bullet casing pen to someone who has come out and said it was for their school age child. If they don't tell me, then there is nothing I can do about it.


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## denniszoomy (Jan 24, 2014)

I would deffinatley put a stipulation to the daughter that he does not take it to school, and possibly talk to the parents. On a doifferent note.  I just came back from flying to California and brought a bunch of my pens in a caes as a carry on. I have several bullet pens in it. TSA did not even blink an eye at them.

Dennis


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## truckerdave (Jan 24, 2014)

*I just went through this LAST week!*

First off, I am a 43 year old white male who is attending college for the 1st time. I used to have several .50 caliber pens with me, along with a few of my other pens, and also a pocketwatch I made. You never know when someone sees you with a unique pen and, BOOM, you get a sale!

That being said, I sold several of my .50 caliber pens at school, both to students AND STAFF MEMBERS.

Well, imagine my surprise when I had occasion to meet with the Dean of Students. She almost had a cow!!! You would have thought I exposed myself to her the way she reacted!!! I was then subjected to a 10 minute diatribe of how "that kind of thing in today's environment was so inappropriate!" (yadda, yadda.):yawn:

Even after I showed her, IT WAS ONLY A PEN. She insisted that I put it away and not bring it to school again.

My $.002 (not a mistake, that's is how much my advice is worth!)

I wouldn't risk it. Some people (liberal, gun-hating educators) just don't get it!


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## Mike Powell (Jan 24, 2014)

Carl, Im not pointing figers at anyone.  I agree with you.  But I also think that the sillyness that the schools are going to is crazy.  My cousin got a ticket for mooning another boy in gym class.  A boy that sees my cousins butt everytime they change, and shower.  Also this was a high school gym class, all boys no girls, and a male coach.  

I see that the school would freak out over it.  I just dont see the harm in it. No primer, propellant, or projectile = no bullet.  I brought up this discussion here at work, and everyone says the same thing.  The schools are over reacting to anything that looks like a weapon.  I know they are.  But like Jim said, the schools have lost alot of the Not So Common, Common Sense.  When it comes to a good kid portraying a hobby, whats the harm?  I'm tempted to email the high school my boys go to and see what their out take is on it.


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## Carl Fisher (Jan 24, 2014)

I didn't take it that way Mike.  :biggrin:

I'm pro responsible gun ownership in every way. Just saying that I can't let that get the better of me when it comes to sensitive topics like our school system and their current state of mind. I have to just say no and wanted the OP to see all sides before making a decision.


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## ed4copies (Jan 24, 2014)

News reported on a kid (2nd grade, if I remember correctly) who was suspended for pointing a finger at another kid (making the finger and thumb sign for a "gun").

Personally, this would have merited another "hand signal", for which there seems to be no ban.

Don't sell (or gift) bullet pens to kids---save yourself a lot of grief.


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## Haynie (Jan 24, 2014)

*here we go again*

If your daughter goes to the same school as her boy friend you should have a handbook.  Read it it will outline the rules.  If your daughter really wants you to do this have her ask the principal while showing him/her an example.  What is acceptable at one school may not be at another. 

Watch the news.  Shootings at schools are happening more and more. communities are reacting and this reaction trickles into the schools.  Schools and their rules are often brought about by community members' feeling about certain things.

School rules, in the US, have to be approved by the board of education. The board of education is made up of people from the community, not employees of the school they over see.  You elect those people, and have a say.  If you find a rule dumb, then by all means go talk to someone about it, talk to the board, talk to the principal.  If you feel as strongly as some of you act on this board, run for the school board and be a part of the change.

pointless @#$%^ about schools never fixed anything and gets pretty tiring.

I am a teacher.  If it were me, and I am making one of these for a friend's son, I would make a bullet pen like some of these.  Obviously not live rounds.  I would stay away from the ones made from the .50 cal. or the mini .30 cal. as they will get a negative reaction.  He will most likely be told to not bring it again, or, yes, worse can happen. There are stupid people in every profession.


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## Janster (Jan 24, 2014)

...sign of the times! My best friend in high school get expelled because his hair was too long. It touched his ears. They were afraid of the Beetle's influence in 64'. Back on track, I had a bullet keychain taken from me at the airport even though the primer pocket will drilled out and replace with solid brass. "This sir, could be used as an  intsrument to poke someone." What about the  frame of the my glasses, my in pen etc.!  Duh!


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## LeeR (Jan 24, 2014)

Janster said:


> ...sign of the times! My best friend in high school get expelled because his hair was too long. It touched his ears. They were afraid of the Beetle's influence in 64'. Back on track, I had a bullet keychain taken from me at the airport even though the primer pocket will drilled out and replace with solid brass. "This sir, could be used as an  intsrument to poke someone." What about the  frame of the my glasses, my in pen etc.!  Duh!



My wife has routinely boarded planes inthe past few years with knitting gear.  They didn't even blink at those long, pointy, metal knitting needles.  But I sure felt safer sitting next to her ...    If I travel alone, I may have to take up knitting ...


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## thebillofwrites (Jan 24, 2014)

After reading this thread, and reflecting back on all the relatively recent news stories about Pop Tarts, imaginary weapons, etc., I am left to wonder what the reaction might be if "Little Johnny" went to school with a pen disguised as a 16" long Louisville Slugger?

Bill


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## edstreet (Jan 24, 2014)

TWO things separate criminals from citizens.  That is MOTIVE and INTENT.  With out proof of *BOTH* of those things there can be no conviction in a court of law.

There has been political hype recently and trigger happy paranoid people all around with the media, politicians and parents alike but when you really get down to the nuts and bolts of what really happens you see a vastly different story.

Having said that.  If you take a lug nut wrench, something every vehicle in the nation has, and you are caught outside a gas station trying to break into the building or assaulting someone that tool because a weapon.  That 'tool' does not matter if it is a pencil, a skate board, your belt, a screw driver or any other object.

Now back on the subject of pens.  One could potentially argue that the nib on *EVERY* pen resembles a projectile from ammunition.  So are you going to refuse to use any pen, pencil or similar device out of fear of what someone else will think?


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## alphageek (Jan 24, 2014)

Lets just remember to keep this discussion away from politics, blame, gun control laws, etc please.   (taking moderator hat off now)

As for the initial question Mark posed... I would hope you already have enough information to make your own judgement.    You didn't specify age, but I would say that if it was ME - and the recipient was dating my daughter, then I would know enough about the person to know if they would try to take it to school, especially if warned.    Just the fact that your doubting giving it to him says maybe you should follow your gut?


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## PTsideshow (Jan 24, 2014)

edstreet said:


> Guys please. Some intelligence is in order here. A bulletin pen is safe and legal everywhere and no reason to limit its use. Also keep in mind that 1/2 of the school problem is the parents at fault.
> 
> The writing utensil is legal everywhere and it's usage needs to be encouraged. Fear is the mind killer, don't go down that road



You are wrong period! Zero tolerance means zero tolerance period! plastic toys aren't allowed, anything related to guns or ammo isn't allowed. the front office has no choice but to follow the letter. Of the school systems guide lines.

If they didn't and a child told their left wing parents and they called the tv, papers the admin of the school would be fired.

Having retired after 35 years, in a large metro school system, I can tell you two things today Zero means zero and NO leeway!

I had a cigar box filled with ammo and clips and magazines that kids in elementary and middle had brought to school, along with the ones that the idiots they had teaching would throw live ammo in with the paper trash and send down to be burned in the incinerator. The idiots couldn't understand why the custodians would be upset and jumping about the bullets whizzing by their heads if the door was open as they were feeding the paper in the unit!

Pen or no pen, even if it is called a writing instrument! 

If it looks like a bullet, and writes like a pen it still considered a bullet or ammo or gun accessory.

Talking to the kids parents is a good idea, so you aren't libel in this sue happy society. They may not win the case against you but the lawyers will:wink:
:clown:


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## mywoodshopca (Jan 24, 2014)

Mike Powell said:


> I dont see where he could get into trouble using it.  No primer, no powder, with out those two there is no projectile.
> 
> Ya'll say our country is going to hell, well dont enable it.  Take your pen to school.  Most of the teachers probably wouldnt even know it was a bullet casing.  Some of his teacher that do know will think it is cool.



But all it takes is some morons to cause issues.

Example:   DC police can arrest tourists with empty bullet casings | Fox News


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## edstreet (Jan 24, 2014)

PTsideshow said:


> edstreet said:
> 
> 
> > Guys please. Some intelligence is in order here. A bulletin pen is safe and legal everywhere and no reason to limit its use. Also keep in mind that 1/2 of the school problem is the parents at fault.
> ...




Then you can provide for us details, as in a paste from the 'zero tolerance' citation you are quoting proving that I am wrong.


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## Ambidex (Jan 24, 2014)

I didn't read all the replies, but as someone that's had kids and been involved with school extensively for the last 20+ years..
#1
not worth the grief
#2 
not worth the grief
#3 why's it seem worth it??
not a 2nd amendment issue and you're not going to change school policies the way the worlds leaning..accept it as a lost fact of life. Even though we can argue left and right about how incredibly wrong this is, that doesn't mean an iota in real life. This isn't the 50's, 60's or the 70's and even though we understand the facts, it doesn't mean they apply to today. My father said a few..uh, quite a few years back..it doesn't matter what a experienced person says..it only matters what you experience. He was waywayway wiser than his son will ever be:wink:


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## Justin H (Jan 24, 2014)

This whole post just makes me sad that we even have to argue about it... 

Is our generation really this ignorant?  I am truly ashamed of the world we are releasing our children into.


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## mdl7070 (Jan 24, 2014)

thank you everyone for your comments on this. there will be some very strict rules that i will give with the pen. your views have been noted.


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## kovalcik (Jan 24, 2014)

Just a little perspective, I took my pens with me visiting family at Christmas. While I was showing my bolt action pens, one of the nephews across the room exclaimed loudly "Hey, that looks like a bullet!".  Can you imagine what would happen if that occurred in a classroom these days?  It just is not worth the potential hassle. Save the bullet pen for a graduation present.  Make him a few slim lines since he will probably lose them anyway.


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## panamag8or (Jan 24, 2014)

Make him one with a pretty pink blank... guaranteed he will never take it to school.


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## Mason Kuettel (Jan 24, 2014)

I guess I just live in an area where this does not seem to be an issue.  

I am a teacher and have seen many of the stories of suspensions that make NO sense, but I have never had any negative reaction to a bullet pen.  There is one teacher who proudly uses his every day and sits in meeting with administrators and parents and has never had an issue.  Just this Christmas a lady from my church got a bolt action pen for her son (not sure, but around 12-13 years old), and as far as I know, no issues.  

Here's to hoping that never changes in (somewhat) "small-town" Texas!


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## PTsideshow (Jan 24, 2014)

> edstreet Then you can provide for us details, as in a paste from the 'zero tolerance' citation you are quoting proving that I am wrong.


If you watched any TV news in the last 5 years there have been stories week after week. The google search turned up 800,000 hits about it in schools.

As been said in some of the other posts in some schools or area's of the country it is less of a problem. Then in others.

Imagination Nazis Trying To Eliminate Childhood Play - Bullets First | Bullets First

Zero Tolerance Government Functionary Of The Day: Thomas McLemore | The Truth About Guns


> A Suffolk, Virginia high school student has been suspended and is facing permanent expulsion after an empty magazine _from a BB gun_ was  found in his backpack at school. In another example of  zero-intelligence policies gone amok, the mere possession of harmless  (air)gun related accessories on a school campus is treated as though it  were actually dangerous or threatening . . .





> KELSEY OSTERMAN:  The gun grab: How ‘zero tolerance’ school policies ignore common sense.   “According to the National Association of School Psychologists, 94  percent of schools have zero tolerance policies for firearms, compared  to 91 percent for other weapons and 88 percent for drugs. The NASP also  concluded that zero tolerance policies can be incredibly harmful to  children in the long run and are usually ineffective as a means of  discipline.”


Whether you like guns or not makes no difference. it is the way the schools are run now days.
I have been retired 8 years and no longer have a copy of the boards policies.
Just front line daily experience, The great teachers and admin people go along, with the PC nut jobs because that is what has to be done to keep their jobs. 
Because the kids go home and tell their PC parents and the first thing they do is call the news so they can get their 15 minutes of u-tube time and hope it goes viral. 

:clown:


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## edstreet (Jan 24, 2014)

I do apologize for this but I have to invoke Godwin's law here.  Not only that but using the 'media' as a credible legal source which I ask for is fail logic.  As far as I am concerned (and I bet that Jeff would agree with me 100%) this thread is now dead.  

Not trying to be rude or anything but pointing out going down this road any further is very pointless as the OP already has made an executive decision in the dilemma of post #1.



PTsideshow said:


> > edstreet Then you can provide for us details, as in a paste from the 'zero tolerance' citation you are quoting proving that I am wrong.
> 
> 
> If you watched any TV news in the last 5 years there have been stories week after week. The google search turned up 800,000 hits about it in schools.
> ...


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## amanofdragons (Jan 25, 2014)

Coming from a student, I brought a bolt action pen to school. My first period class went by without a hitch as i had to use a pencil. Second period, with a male teacher, i started using my pen. As the teacher was walking around he noticed my pen. He kindly asked if he could see it. He handled it for a few minutes and handed it back to me and said thats cool. After a two more classes of using the pen without further incident, it was lunch period. While eating lunch, the principal comes up and says "i here you have an interesting pen, can i see it?"i say sure and hand it to him. He looks it over hands it back to me and asks me if it was for sale. To say i was surprised was an understatement. i ended up selling him that pen and another two teachers similar pens. it really depends on the school. my school is in rural washington where we share hunting pics and ask hunting advice from the teachers.


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## wouldentu2? (Jan 25, 2014)

Seems like you already know the answer.


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## alphageek (Jan 25, 2014)

Locking down the thread.   Too much name calling and this can only get worse.  

Dean 
Asst mod


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