# Inlay or Segmented?



## Rmartin (Dec 19, 2009)

No picture here, just a question.

How do you decide if a pen is inlayed or segmented?

Take the Celtic knot for instance. Most don't cut all the way through to keep the cuts oriented. To be considered segmented, do the pieces need to be seperate and glued back together? If not, what if a powder is used to fill the celtic knot? Is it then an inlay?


----------



## kirkfranks (Dec 19, 2009)

In my opinion (worth only what you paid for it)
An inlay does not go all the way through the finished pen.
The celtic not would qualify as a segment since the finished pen will have the know go all the way through.

Too early in the morning to ponder the powder question.


----------



## mick (Dec 19, 2009)

Generally  speaking using Kirk and Richard's Celtic Knot as an example. If you don't cutt all the way through,You "inlay" the "segments" to create the pattern. Once turned, how you inlaid the segment isn't apparent  as it appears segmented.I would say that The finished pen determines whether or not it's inlay or segment.

I hope I've confused everyone enough this early morning...lol


----------



## KenV (Dec 19, 2009)

May l suggest that the segmented woodturners (there is a separate chapter of AAW for segmentation -- http://segmentedwoodturners.org/forum/photopost/index.php) would look at pieces and glue as being the joining of pieces (segments) that will be turned.

Some of the pieces involve inlay as well as segmentation.  

Pen turning continues to be under represented in the segmented woodturning chapter.


----------



## wolftat (Dec 19, 2009)

While making each cut in a celtic knot you don't go all the way through it but the final results are showing that the blank does get completely cut through. An inlay would be removing some material but not cutting completely through at any point so the celtic knot winds up being a segmented design in the long run.


----------



## Rmartin (Dec 19, 2009)

wolftat said:


> While making each cut in a celtic knot you don't go all the way through it but the final results are showing that the blank does get completely cut through. An inlay would be removing some material but not cutting completely through at any point so the celtic knot winds up being a segmented design in the long run.


 
So, if I read you correctly, if I make a celtic knot using a brass powder glued into each cut, once turned, it would be a segmented piece.


----------



## wolftat (Dec 19, 2009)

Rmartin said:


> So, if I read you correctly, if I make a celtic knot using a brass powder glued into each cut, once turned, it would be a segmented piece.


 In short yes. While you aren't segmenting in any other woods, you are segmenting the main blank. This of course is all just my opinion, there are many ways to look at something and I just see it this way, it's not wrong or right, it's just how I see it.


----------



## KenV (Dec 19, 2009)

Richard --  Me thinks you are playing with words --  a lawyerly hair split perhaps.

If you do use adhesive to fasten individual pieces of metals/wood together you are putting segments of material togther.


The general use of the term adhesive/glue is not to saturate with CA which can be used in several different forms --  CA and resins can be used in either or both.   

Soaking sawdust in CA is not a generally understood process of segmentation --

See http://www.denswoodturning.co.uk./spider.php for both


----------



## Constant Laubscher (Dec 19, 2009)

I would say with a laser inlay kit you have a barrel with laser cut outs and some laser cut pieces to fit into it. 
Segmenting would be a barrel that is made up of different pieces glued together.


----------



## DennisM (Dec 19, 2009)

Usualy a inlay is any material that in layed into the piece and not part of the structure itself. It can be metal, wood, powders etc.

Segmenting is multiple material put together to complete a whole. When cut apart or looked at the entire piece will have the it all the way through.

lasercut blanks I would say are a hybrid of sort.

A celtic knot that is cut in after the blank is turned round and glued in IMO would be an inlay.

Take a pool cue for instance, the points are usually segmented woods together, along with the butt sleeve. Where as the stones or ivory pieces are inlaid into it.


----------



## Rmartin (Dec 19, 2009)

Oh yes, I am splitting hairs, that's what we love to do at the IAP.

Would everyone agree with this?

(1)The material used does not determine if it's a Segment or Inlay.
(2)It is a segment if after turned it shows all the way through.
(3)It is an inlay if after turned it shows only at the point of entry.


----------



## DennisM (Dec 19, 2009)

Yup


----------



## wolftat (Dec 19, 2009)

Rmartin said:


> Oh yes, I am splitting hairs, that's what we love to do at the IAP.
> 
> Would everyone agree with this?
> 
> ...


 I sort of agree, I guess it is all in how you want to see it. we are just splitting hairs as this is one of those topics that we are all going to see differently. When it all comes down to it, as long as we are happy with our work, what is in a word?


----------



## Rmartin (Dec 19, 2009)

wolftat said:


> I sort of agree, I guess it is all in how you want to see it. we are just splitting hairs as this is one of those topics that we are all going to see differently. When it all comes down to it, as long as we are happy with our work, what is in a word?


 
What is in a word?

The reason I ask is because I'm not sure if a pen blank I'm working on should be described as segmented or inlayed.


----------



## alphageek (Dec 19, 2009)

Rmartin said:


> What is in a word?
> 
> The reason I ask is because I'm not sure if a pen blank I'm working on should be described as segmented or inlayed.



Describe it as "fred"... then there will be no confusion 

Really ... Call it what YOU feel comfortable describing (to your customers if you sell them)... or to whomever you are describing them to.   "A rose by any other name will still smell as sweet!".


----------



## leehljp (Dec 19, 2009)

alphageek said:


> Describe it as "fred"... then there will be no confusion
> 
> Really ... Call it what YOU feel comfortable describing (to your customers if you sell them)... or to whomever you are describing them to.   "A rose by any other name will still smell as sweet!".



I agree with Dean. You create it, you name it! Just be prepared to face other "hair splitters." :wink: :biggrin:

AND listening to an international community over here - Many English word's meaning will change from country to country; and even French, German and Spanish words change their meanings within a second culture from what they meant in the original country/culture! 

Many years ago, I used a German word (arbeiten) in Japanese (pronounced a-ru-bai-to in Japanese). The Japanese man corrected me and said that my usage was wrong. A German friend said I was correct, and then explained that when the Japanese adapted the word into their culture, they changed the meaning! :wink:

_What is in a word?_: "Handkerchief" has different meanings in different countries.  So does "Tinkle" and many others. :biggrin:


Call it what you wish and enjoy your creation! And please show it to us if you can.


----------



## wolftat (Dec 20, 2009)

Rmartin said:


> What is in a word?
> 
> The reason I ask is because I'm not sure if a pen blank I'm working on should be described as segmented or inlayed.


 
When in doubt it may be best to cover all your bases and called it a segmented inlay. My own opinion on it is if the blank has been seperated at any point from one end to the other it is segmented. While making a celtic knot design the blank is not completely cut through but once you turn the blank, the main body is no longer one piece so it has been segmented. Again, this is just my opinion.


----------

