# Berea Rant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



## Guest (Nov 25, 2004)

Well maybe just a question.
When I first started turning pens I got my kits a Woodcraft not realizing a lot of the kits were Bereas.
As I got into researching different suppliers on the net I looked into Berea.
I was immediately turned off by their 2 mandrel system.A's,B's  it just seemed too complicated.
As I got more into pen turning and discovered their perfect fit pen(a post from one of the members) and Bill having them on sale I tried them along with their "B" mandrel.
Now I understand the concept of a larger dia mandrel to stop a larger pen from "whipping" while it's turning,but then I did a cigar pen.
THe thing is huge but  it is turned on a normal mandrel(A) that didn't make sense, a least not to me.
THis morning I tried one of their roller ball pens, again the "B" mandrel.
The blanks on these pens are so long combines with the bushings that both blanks are not designed to fit on the mandrel the same time unless you unscrew the shaft from the M2 shaft holder.
If you do this the has more of a tendency to "wobble" as you turn it.
I have talked to D.C&gt; about his feelings on this, actually he just let me know without my asking.
Can anyone explain the need for a different sized mandrel if the reason for its' use is not consistent with the size of the pen?
Sorry for the long post,I just had to vent.


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## Scott (Nov 25, 2004)

Hi Eagle,

No explanation here!  I will say that I wish I could use the "B" mandrel to turn all my pens!  It is so much stiffer.  Of course it's too big for all my 7mm kits, but I can dream, can't I?   ;-)

I didn't realize that Berea's cigar kits were set up for the "A" mandrel.  It doesn't make sense, when you think about it, unless they have some "marketing" reason.  Maybe I could invite Jim or Larry (from Berea) to venture an opinion on this topic?

Scott.


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## Rudy Vey (Nov 25, 2004)

What about drilling, or better said reaming the bushings out so they fit a "B" mandrel?? A size "L" letter bit should do it.
I have not tried to increase the size from A to B, but just this morning I had to open up some bushings that would not fit on my "B" mandrel, although they were meant to fit on it; they were just a tad too tight. The only thing that one should take good care of, is that the drill bit must be exactly centered before reaming out the bushings. They should be held in a centering vise anyways. 

Rudy


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## Fred in NC (Nov 25, 2004)

Rudy, the best way to drill out bushings is right in the lathe, preferably a metal lathe.


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## Bill Baumbeck (Nov 28, 2004)

I just spoke to Jim Heusinger (the owner of Berea Hardwoods) about this last Wednesday.

When the Berera cigar kit was first introduced the thought of having two different bushings was contemplated (an 'A' and a 'B' bushing set).  Most of the pen turners at the time were and are still using the standard 7mm pen mandrels (the 'A' shaft) so that is the size the kit was designed for.

There are basically two reasons why there isn't a 'B' set of bushings:  (1) the minimum order required for having the bushing sets made (thousands) and (2) the reluctance of turners having to buy another mandrel when there is already one out there that works.

Bill Baumbeck


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## Guest (Nov 29, 2004)

Bill that does not even come close to a good explanation.
I realize it is no fault of yours.
What would be their explantion for the roller ball kit that requires a larger B mandrel but the madrel shaft is not long enough to hold both blanks securely at one time?
A single dual stepped center bushing would shorten the assembly and allow for the madrel to be screwed into the MT all the way.


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## wayneis (Nov 29, 2004)

If you are using their black mandrel shaft then on some of their kit instructions it says to slide the bushing that is attatched back to make room for both blanks.  It does not look like it will move but it does.  

Why it doesn't make sense to me is that they have many other kits that use the B mandrel why not one more.

Wayne


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## jeff (Nov 29, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Bill Baumbeck_
> <br />I just spoke to Jim Heusinger (the owner of Berea Hardwoods) about this last Wednesday.
> 
> When the Berera cigar kit was first introduced the thought of having two different bushings was contemplated (an 'A' and a 'B' bushing set).  Most of the pen turners at the time were and are still using the standard 7mm pen mandrels (the 'A' shaft) so that is the size the kit was designed for.
> ...


I work 5 minutes from Berea Hardwoods.  There must be 10 little machine shops within a couple miles of there. Why make thousands of bushing sets when any one of those shops would probably ream the A-shaft bushings for a few bucks a set.  I'd pay a few bucks more for those, I bet others would too.


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## DCBluesman (Nov 29, 2004)

Ok, Eagle, maybe a dose of sales and marketing reality is needed here.  I think the actual reason for the differences is that each of the major suppliers wants to have captive customers.  The best way to do that is to have slight variations in the basic equipment...i.e. the diameters of the "A" mandrel and the use of the "B" mandrel.  There are others, like the TPI in lathes and chucks, drill bits that come in US, metric and letters, and so on and so on.  

No supplier wants to spend R&D money plus machining setup costs and design costs, only to see a competitor throw up a cheap knock off that can be duplicated at a lower price point with little or no effort.  

As for the mandrel being too short for a pen type, remember that most overseas manufacturers offer kits that are turned between centers with no bushings at all.  It's the turner's demand that says we need to add two, three or four bushings.  We want new designs each year, better lasting finishes and pens that can't be replicated for less than $50 while at the same time we shop for the least expensive suppliers.  Does that make any more sense than what Berea or other suppliers do?

Now I do not pretend to know the owners of Berea, CSUSA or any of the others, but I DO know business.  This is how it's done.  And it's one of the beautiful parts of capitalism.  The market determines which suppliers best meet the needs of the users.  And as a consumer, you get to vote your dollars!  You know how I have chosen to vote mine.[8D]


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## Fred in NC (Nov 29, 2004)

Lou, very good points.

You said "remember that most overseas manufacturers offer kits that are turned between centers with no bushings at all"  Could you explain a little?  Thanks


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## C_Ludwigsen (Nov 29, 2004)

Lou,

I'm probably going to get my head chopped off for this, so I'll be very respectful to everyone's views and let this stand as mine...

I'm on Eagle's side on this one and have refused to order Berea kits for this very reason.

Pen kits require tools.  The mandrels and bushings are tools in the same sense as drill bits, screwdrivers, and various jigs.  While there are different standards, you still expect the tool suppliers to provide tools that fit those standards.

For example, I could choose metric or SAE bolts, two major classes.  But if I choose a 1/2" bolt from ANY company, I expect the 1/2" wrench from ANY company to fit it.  If it didn't, I would return it and fully expect a refund.  I won't buy a wrench from some company that is selling a 1/2" wrench but calling it a "G".  Its the whole caveat emptor concern.

Tool manufacturers and their corresponding hardware/component makers have developed these standards based on the demand from professionals and hobbyists.  But that demand has seldom brought about change unless those professionals or hobbyists united under an organization with the weight to represent their concerns to the makers.

In walks the IAP!  As an organization, we should strive to advocate standardizations of measures for tools and components from all suppliers.  We should also advocate standardized descriptions of those measures.

It is fine if CSUSA wants to sell kits with a 25/32 tube while PSI sells kits with 7, 8, and 10mm.  But the tools - the bushings, mandrels (diameter AND length) - should be standardized.  I have no issue buying a set of bushings to match the pen kit I wish to buy, but it SHOULD fit my tools and equipment.  None of us would stand for a supplier who sells a mandrel with a #3 morse taper.  None of our lathes could take it.  By the same logic, I shouldn't have to buy a mandrel (a TOOL) from multiple suppliers to turn different kits.

So far, I have only seen Berea move away from standardized sizing.  I have bought CSUSA kits and they fit the mandrels I got from PSI and Woodcraft.  If Berea feels a legitimate need to have 2 different sized mandrels, fine.  But label them 7mm and whatever the other one is...

When newcomers get interested in this craft, they can be discouraged to proceed when faced with the maze of differing kits/mandrels/bushings and such.  We have the opportunity to help the suppliers by advocating standardized tool requirements.

Understand, that I'm mainly talking about the mandrel diameter and the diameter of the hole in the bushings.  This is the key element that makes people I know think twice about penturning.

If the IAP adopted a standard mandrel size and length (for fixed mandrels or maximum length for adjustable ones), and if we developed a logo mark such as "IAP Standards Certified", then we can offer this logo for use by suppliers who adopt our standard.  They would benefit because, as the IAP and it's notoriety grows, people will ask what they should buy.

We can simply reply, "buy wherever you see the IAP logo".  If by then, all suppliers have adopted standard mandrel sizes, then they all win.

Its a win-win.  I, for one, will not buy Berea kits until they make their components understandable so I know they will fit my tools.  Its a shame too, because they have some nice ones I would like to try.

I guess the alternative would be for some of our members with metal lathes to start a pen-bushing manufacturing biz that offers bushings to match your mandrel and desire pen kit [].


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## DCBluesman (Nov 29, 2004)

You'll not get your head bitten off by me.  I'd love to see us set standards for the industry.  And I'm more than willing to open negotiations with our primary suppliers.  But I will warn you that it's likely to be an uphill battle.  Standards or so hit-or-miss in this biz that JET even introduced a new MT #0 on their pen lathe.  Hopefully the IAP will quickly gather the respect needed to wage a winning discussion on standards for primary turning components.  BTW, it only get's worse when you start dealing with bottle stoppers!


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## Guest (Nov 29, 2004)

> _Originally posted by wayneis_
> <br />If you are using their black mandrel shaft then on some of their kit instructions it says to slide the bushing that is attatched back to make room for both blanks.  It does not look like it will move but it does.
> 
> Why it doesn't make sense to me is that they have many other kits that use the B mandrel why not one more.
> ...


I'm not sure what you mean by this,
I am trying out the streamline rollerball and the directions give this as an option,and I hace no idea what they are talking about.
I am using their B shaft and m2 shaft holer.
In order to get both blanks and 4 busings on the mandrel you have to unthread the mandrel shaft enough to get the components to fit.
Which part is supposed to "slide"?


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## its_virgil (Nov 29, 2004)

No head chopping by me but here is my viewpoint on this topic. I think we are rather lucky that as many of our supplier's toolings are interchangeable as they are. I use everyone's bushings on the same mandrel and have had no problems. (except for the larger Berea mandrel, and I don't consider that a problem) We don't require  autos, TV's or refridgerators to have standard parts.  Since Woodcraft sells mostly Berea kits, I use Woodcraft bushings that fit the smaller... actually 1/4 inch ...mandrel. I can use WC's cigar pen bushihngs with the Berea cigar pen and use the smaller mandrel, although the larger mandrel is better for the cigar pen.  WC  does not sell all of Berea's kits but I find it no problem to have the larger size mandrel from Berea so I can turn the kits they sell that WC does not which use the larger mandrel. Bushing must be purchased anyway. Does it really matter whether it fits the A or B mandrel. We use computers, cameras, VCR's, DVDs, and other equipment where there is not 100% standardization. I just don't see the big deal with something as munadane as a mandrel. Actually the larger mandrel from Berea works better than the 1/4 inch standard mandrel, at least on the larger pens. It flexes and whips less and I have had some of my larger pen's bushings reamed to fit on the larger Berea mandrel and I get better results....and I get to make some really nice pen kits. Just my thoughts and not intending to take sides with or against anyone on this topic. Just a different viewpoint. Have a good week.
Do a good turn daily
Don 


> _Originally posted by C_Ludwigsen_
> <br />Lou,
> 
> I'm probably going to get my head chopped off for this, so I'll be very respectful to everyone's views and let this stand as mine...
> ...


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## Guest (Nov 29, 2004)

> _Originally posted by its_virgil_
> <br />No head chopping by me but here is my viewpoint on this topic. I think we are rather lucky that as many of our supplier's toolings are interchangeable as they are. I use everyone's bushings on the same mandrel and have had no problems. (except for the larger Berea mandrel, and I don't consider that a problem) We don't require  autos, TV's or refridgerators to have standard parts.  Since Woodcraft sells mostly Berea kits, I use Woodcraft bushings that fit the smaller... actually 1/4 inch ...mandrel. I can use WC's cigar pen bushihngs with the Berea cigar pen and use the smaller mandrel, although the larger mandrel is better for the cigar pen.  WC  does not sell all of Berea's kits but I find it no problem to have the larger size mandrel from Berea so I can turn the kits they sell that WC does not which use the larger mandrel. Bushing must be purchased anyway. Does it really matter whether it fits the A or B mandrel. We use computers, cameras, VCR's, DVDs, and other equipment where there is not 100% standardization. I just don't see the big deal with something as munadane as a mandrel. Actually the larger mandrel from Berea works better than the 1/4 inch standard mandrel, at least on the larger pens. It flexes and whips less and I have had some of my larger pen's bushings reamed to fit on the larger Berea mandrel and I get better results....and I get to make some really nice pen kits. Just my thoughts and not intending to take sides with or against anyone on this topic. Just a different viewpoint. Have a good week.
> Do a good turn daily
> Don
> ...


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## dougle40 (Nov 29, 2004)

This has been a very interesting thread . From what I've been able to gather so far , I don't think that I would ever consider buying from Berea if I have to purchase all the additional supplies from  them because those from other people won't work with their kits .
It sure would be a kick in the butt getting the kits and then finding out that you couldn't use them until you buy THEIR bushings and mandrel system .


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## DCBluesman (Nov 29, 2004)

Lively debates and excellent points by all...THAT is what makes this organization and this forum the best on the web!


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## its_virgil (Nov 29, 2004)

I guess I personally like the larger mandrel on the larger pens. Just my personal preferece. I make cigars on the smaller mandrel and the larger mandrel...I use the larger mandrel on CSUSA kits and Bereea kits.  I buy all CSUSA kits from Bill and buy Berea kits 50-50 f rom Bill and Berea. I rarely buy from woodcraft, but do occassionaly.  I buy from Ryan but not  directly from Hut or Penn State. And I agree that standardization would be nice but I don't think it will happen. mExcept for Berea's larger mandrel, things are pretty standard. I have no problem interchanging mandrels and bushings from all mfgs. I also mike the wood to the pen parts on every pen. Just a habit I formed early on. Keep turning and discussing. I love this place.
do a good turn daily!
Don


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## DCBluesman (Nov 29, 2004)

Interesting take, Doug.  Up until this thread I was firmly in your court, feeling frustrated at the second mandrel requirement.  However, having read some really good points here, I'm ordering the B mandrel today along with some of the kits (the Perfect Fit) that I've been dying to make.

And Don, what do you mean by I also mike the wood to the pen parts on every pen?  [8D]


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## wayneis (Nov 29, 2004)

I have to agree with Don on this one, the B mandrel is stiffer and is a better idea.  I think that when Berea started the B shaft it was a way to make a better shaft for their larger kits, it worked.  I make kits from both CSUSA and Berea and have no problems between the two.  The way I look at it is that if I did not purchase any of the kits that take the B mandrel its only hurting me because they still will have customers who buy plenty and the Berea kits that use the B mandrel are some of the nicest kits.  To reduce the whip on the kits that use the A size I only turn with one blank at a time.  It may add 1 or 2 minutes but its not a big deal and I want the best product that I can make.  I use the Beall Collet chuck so I can adjust how much of the shaft sticks out, I don't use the MT at all anymore.  The shorter the shaft the less whipping and flexing, sense I went to the Beall collet I don't have any of the problems with consentricity that I used to.  Anthony mentioned about with the new purse kits from CSUSA he kept hitting the end of the drill chuck with his tool and fingers.  Well with the collet chuck you don't have that problem, you just add another 7mm bushing and there is nothing to hit your tool on.

Wayne


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## dougle40 (Nov 29, 2004)

Lou ,
I think what Don is referring to is using a micrometer to gauge the turned size . It's a method that I use constantly whenever an area has to be turned to a exact specific size (EG - the size of the recess cut for the band of a Mont Blanc pen ) .


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## its_virgil (Nov 29, 2004)

Lou,
I guess mike should have been mic (micrometer callipers). Sorry about the confusion.  My fingers are quicker than my brain.  I  use callipers and measure the nib dia, the finial dia, and 
CB dia and any other diameter where a metal part meets wood to make sure the fit is as close as I can get it. Bushings tend to reduce in dia as they get sanded, or atl least mine do.

Dougle40,
Did you miss the part where I mentioned I use other mfgs. bushings with Berea kits. I've used the CSUSA cigar pen bushings with berea kits and use the 1/4 inch mandrel. In fact I don't own any larger mandrel bushings from Berea, I just had other bushings reamed out to fit the larger mandrel. I really think most mfgs's bushings will work on each other's pens if the hole size works. I mix bushingsl all the time.
Do a good turn daily!
Don



> _Originally posted by DCBluesman_
> <br />Interesting take, Doug.  Up until this thread I was firmly in your court, feeling frustrated at the second mandrel requirement.  However, having read some really good points here, I'm ordering the B mandrel today along with some of the kits (the Perfect Fit) that I've been dying to make.
> 
> And Don, what do you mean by I also mike the wood to the pen parts on every pen?  [8D]


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## its_virgil (Nov 29, 2004)

Wayne,
I'm changing to the Beall Collett chuck also. I know several penturners who use it and they say the same thing as you. It's on my  Christmas list and if Santa doesn't come through I'm getting one ASAP after Christmas. Know where the cheapest place to purchase or does anyone have a source for a cheaper collett chuck than the Beall?
Do a good turn daily!
Don


> _Originally posted by wayneis_
> <br />I have to agree with Don on this one, the B mandrel is stiffer and is a better idea.  I think that when Berea started the B shaft it was a way to make a better shaft for their larger kits, it worked.  I make kits from both CSUSA and Berea and have no problems between the two.  The way I look at it is that if I did not purchase any of the kits that take the B mandrel its only hurting me because they still will have customers who buy plenty and the Berea kits that use the B mandrel are some of the nicest kits.  To reduce the whip on the kits that use the A size I only turn with one blank at a time.  It may add 1 or 2 minutes but its not a big deal and I want the best product that I can make.  I use the Beall Collet chuck so I can adjust how much of the shaft sticks out, I don't use the MT at all anymore.  The shorter the shaft the less whipping and flexing, sense I went to the Beall collet I don't have any of the problems with consentricity that I used to.  Anthony mentioned about with the new purse kits from CSUSA he kept hitting the end of the drill chuck with his tool and fingers.  Well with the collet chuck you don't have that problem, you just add another 7mm bushing and there is nothing to hit your tool on.
> 
> Wayne


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## RussFairfield (Nov 29, 2004)

I don't see there being different mandels as being a problem. The pen parts are often not interchangeable for the same design or style. Why should we expect there to be standardization on the mandrel shaft diameter or length??

We have to remember that there are only three (3) manufacturers of pen kits in the US- Berea, Craft Supplies, and Penn State. All others are re-sellers for these products. Even though they looked similar, there were always differences in their kits. The tubes and fittings often look to be the same, but there is often enough difference that one suppliers finial will be too loose in another's brass tube, or so tight in another's that the wood is cracked from the expansion of the tube. 

we have to keep this discussion of mandrels in perspective; and we have to rmember that there has not always been the proliferation of kits and designs that we see today. In the beginning there was the 7mm Cross-style Slim-Line pen, period. That was followed by the Parker-style ball point and fountain pens, or Americlassic, or whatever other name it is now known by. Some suppliers chose to make stepped bushings for their Slim-Line mandrel for turning these pens, Berea chose to make a dedicated mandrel that required a simple bushing because it was stiffer for the larger pen. I don't think it was any marketing ploy or plan on the part of any of them. It was just their different way to accept the realities of the time.

As the numbers and sizes of the kits grew, I find it to be almost a miracle that everyone chose to build on the mandrels that they already had, rather than make even larger ones for their larger diameter pen tubes. Why did Berea choose the smaller mandrel for the larger pen?? Who knows?? I would guess that they did it because the 7mm or "A" mandrel was longer than their "B" mandrel. Remember that the "B" was sized for the Parker pens, and that every other use came later.

As for "industry standards", think about what you are asking for. You may not like the result. Standardization means that someones standards become "The Standards". Stressing "industry standards" would be our choosing  whose kits will be acceptable on the market and maybe, who will stay in business. I would prefer that the capitalist marketplace make that selection for us.

Just keep on making pens. Don't worry about the differences in the kits and mandrels. It could be worse.


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## tipusnr (Nov 29, 2004)

Well said Russ!


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## C_Ludwigsen (Nov 29, 2004)

Russ,

As always, you make some great points.  Especially about the earlier availability of kits, mandrels, and bushings.  And from the perspective that the "B" mandrel is stiffer than the "A" for larger bore pens, I certainly agree that making something better and marketing it because it as better is valid.

My issue is specific to the mandrels as tools and not the interchanging of parts between kits.  If every kit maker sold a different mandrel for every bore size, it would be not be a wise marketing choice unless the mandrels cost significantly less than they do today.

Maybe it is fine to have 2 mandrel standards.  But Berea needs to do more to clarify what works with what and what the sizes are in plain english.  I think Berea is beginning to understand this because I found the following on there website and had not seen this before...



> A Brief Explanation of Our Mandrels
> All of the above items are in general known as tooling. We produce high precision straightforward tooling that is designed to assist you in easily making our kits.
> 
> 
> ...



People who are new to the hobby will want to get the most value from their purchases.  Tooling is an investment towards a subsequent goal.  If people see that the 1/4" mandrel is the best value for most kits, they will buy that tool first.  They then face another investment to turn the larger Berea kits.

I just think that any kit that Berea sells that does not have bushings for a 0.25" mandrel is limiting their market access.  On the otherhand, if PSI or CSUSA start selling bushings for Berea's kits that do fit on their 0.25" mandrels, they stand to capture market share from Berea.

I do respect your experience and views.  I'm simply looking at this from a limited budget & best value for the customer perspective.

Thanks for the food for thought.

Chuck

~~~~~
On another note, here is a design question.  If the stepped bushings for larger bore pens that fit on the 0.25" mandrel had a longer "step" section - say 3/4", would that not reduce opportunity for "whip" while being more price-acceptable than buying both a new mandrel and bushings?


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## Mac In Oak Ridge (Nov 29, 2004)

Chuck,
I don't think a longer bushing sleeve would have any effect on "whip".  Where the two center bushings butt together you have a hinge point.  The only thing that will reduce the whip effect is a stiffer mandrel and that is the effect you get with the Berea "B" mandrel system.


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## Fred in NC (Nov 29, 2004)

The "whip" effect is often due to the barrels not being squared to the tube.  When the barrels are not square, tightening the nut will put a bow on the shaft.  If the mounted barrels vibrate, take them out, and run the mill on them.


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## C_Ludwigsen (Nov 29, 2004)

That may be my lesser experience showing, Mac.  The bushings I have for the 6 styles I've turned all have a single center bushing.


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## Randy_ (Nov 29, 2004)

I use a JET Pen Lathe that I bought at a garage sale.  Because of its pecularities, you cannot use a "B" mandrel with it.  There was one Berea kit that I particularly wanterd to make; but could not because it required a "B" mandrel.  After talking to bunches of people from manufacturers to experienced pen turners, the only solution has been to make my own bushings from wood or Corian.  They don't last as long as steel bushings; but I am not a high volume pen maker so it doesn't really matter for me!!


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## Guest (Nov 29, 2004)

> _Originally posted by C_Ludwigsen_
> <br />That may be my lesser experience showing, Mac.  The bushings I have for the 6 styles I've turned all have a single center bushing.


I had no problems until I Got Bereas streamline roller ball.
All the other kits I have fit on the madrels easily. In someinstances I need to add a bushing so My tool rest will fit between the Head stock and tail stock.
With the Roller ball,You can either turn one section at a time or uncscrew the mandrel shaft until you have enough length for both blanks to fit.
THis could easily be solved by making one stepped center bushing or making the bushings shorter.
The part I don't understand is this kit fits on their prorietary "B" mandrel.
Why were the components designed to fit their special mandrel?
I like the looks of Bereas kits but I don't like they way they are designed?
D.C. don't forget to order the $2,00 pencil mechanism for the pperfect fit.


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## wayneis (Nov 30, 2004)

I just do not understand why there is such a big deal about a six dollar mandrel shaft.  You have to buy bushings no matter what kit you purchase.  You only one morse taper and the shafts screw in and out.  If we were talking fifteen or twenty bucks I might see the point but at six dollars, I don't get it.  Now if we want to be picky why do all three have different size A shafts?  Why not everybody just have a 1/4" shaft?  If I were to be upset over anything that would be it.  I wish that all of the larger pen kits used the larger size mandrel.

Wayne


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## its_virgil (Nov 30, 2004)

While we're standardizing lets add the threads on the end of the mandrel.  Both ends while we're at it. I have to use 3 different nuts on the shaft end to accommodate everyone's threads.  Geesh!
Do a good turn daily!
Don


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## DCBluesman (Nov 30, 2004)

I've bought a number of pen kits from both English and German companies.  At least a third of the kits are designed for placement of the blanks on a mandrel with no bushings whatsoever.  They rely on dial calipers to get the appropriate widths at each point where either wood meets wood or wood meets kit part.  In addition, a number of the kits require that a single blank be turned between a dead center and a live center.  The ones I've seen like that tend to be the single blank style pens. There sure are a lot of ways people are turning pens out there.  [8D]





> _Originally posted by Fred in NC_
> <br />Lou, very good points.
> 
> You said "remember that most overseas manufacturers offer kits that are turned between centers with no bushings at all"  Could you explain a little?  Thanks


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## Guest (Nov 30, 2004)

> _Originally posted by its_virgil_
> <br />While we're standardizing lets add the threads on the end of the mandrel.  Both ends while we're at it. I have to use 3 different nuts on the shaft end to accommodate everyone's threads.  Geesh!
> Do a good turn daily!
> Don


Now that I have not run into.
I have mandrels from woodcraft,PSI and Berea.
The brass thmb nuts are interchangeable.
On the tail staock side that is.
Thread are different on each end of the mandrel,either that or I am cross threading one side.[]

Is there any supplier that makes longer manderls?


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## Fred in NC (Nov 30, 2004)

A 1/4" shaft is too big for 7 mm tubes.  Most shafts are about .246", which is about the size of a "D" drill bit, and also of "D" drill rod.  1/4" bolts fit inside the tube because they are a bit undersized.  

Yes, the threads are a mess.  1/4-20, 1/4-28, and maybe some metrics!  Ugh!


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## PenWorks (Nov 30, 2004)

I have tried to avoid this topic, but you guys get me going every day. One of my bones is, When you buy a threaded kit. Why don't they disclose the size & TPI of the threads? Some of us don't like their parts and would rather turn and thread our own. Knowing this info would be helpfull, without having to ask 3 or 4 people each time. I'm sure they would be happy to add dies and taps to the list of tools to sell us.


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