# Ok another to look at....



## Old Griz

Ok here is a slightly different technique... I kept the front in focus and blurred the background... there is a bit too much brightness on the pen and I did not see that until I finished the pic and got ready to post it...


----------



## Fleabit

I like the left one....the pens seems to stand out more.


----------



## C_Ludwigsen

left


----------



## wayneis

I have to agree, the grain on the left pen stands out better.

Wayne


----------



## Daniel

Tom,
 this is a great example of what I wrote about trying to keep everything but you subject out of focus. it causes your eye to be drawn to the subject. it also causes the in focus object to be more vibrant. you have a very good busy background for this example. nice. we need to make a how to artical for pen photography. including using photo editors and such. this set of pics would be perfect for showing what a blured background will do for the looks of your pen. You've gotten extremely good at knowing how to talk to your camera. Lately i have been thinking about adding a florescent bulb behind me when I shoot my pictures. something to give those highlights that show the finish. I've really enjoyed seeing what several members have been doign with there photos. Sort of following along as there ideas progress the same way you can follow a turners progress as they get better or alter there style here and there.


----------



## woodscavenger

I like the first.  The background is recognizable yet it does not out do the pen.  But it is not as unfocused as the previous ones.


----------



## wicook

Tom, I too like the one on the left. The out of focus background really makes the pen stand out!


----------



## WoodChucker

I like the first one too! I think the right background can flatter a product your selling and sometimes is a good idea. But I think we sometimes go overboard with backgrounds and props too, I know I have. Either one can make a picture look pretty, but we're not selling pictures, we're selling pens. The <b>pen</b> should jump out at you, not the background or prop. 

When people look at your pens, you don't want there eyes to drift, you want them glued on the beauty of the pen. Tom, I think your picture is very nice, but I find myself trying to read the post cards and looking at the big rock. The reason I look at photos here is to see pens, so if my eyes are drifting I would have to say that your customers eyes would be doing the same thing. Is that what we want? 

I'm no pro at advertising or photography, or even pens for that matter. [] I'm just giving you my opinion and I could be off base. But maybe others will be able to give you opinions on this too. I'm guilty of it too, and its something I've just recently starting thinking about, so I'd be more then happy to hear what you and other members think about it. So I'm happy this post got started. Thanks!

Oh I forgot to say, your pen looks fantastic and you did a beautiful job on it,but heck,your pens always look good. []


----------



## Darley

Left one, nice pen Tom

Serge


----------



## Gregory Huey

I take the door on the left.


----------



## DCBluesman

> _Originally posted by WoodChucker_
> <br />we're not selling pictures, we're selling pens.... if my eyes are drifting I would have to say that your customers eyes would be doing the same thing.


Tom--I have to agree with R.T. on this.  I think the pen and the photograph are excellent, but I too want to focus on the pen without any "clutter".  

In the course of a year, I buy a number of pens for my collection.  In looking at the major manufacturers and distributors sites, which is usually where I make my decisions, I find that their pens are all displayed on very plain backgrounds--or no backgrounds at all.  I can focus in on the specifics of the pen quite easily because there are no other visuals to distract my eye.

In the high-end pen market, I would think that jewelers would be another source of how to display items.  Again, the jeweler web pages and catalogs that I peruse have very neutral or no backgrounds.  I find it a lot easier to focus on the piece.

In no way do I want you to interpret this as a slight to your pen or photography, but I just think that many of us need to consider what the marketers of high-end pens (and jewelry) have discovered before us.  AND this is only one person's opinion...mine.


----------



## Old Griz

I agree Lou, and that is why I am going nuts trying to find the "perfect" system.. I am pretty confident I got the photography down from a technical concept... now I have to work on the "artistic" concept without detracting from the pens... backgrounds I can take out easily.. it is the support function I am having a real deal with... will probably play some more today since I have a couple to turn and photo later on...


----------



## Daniel

R.T. Actually you are pretty much desribing two seperate types of photos. and you simply prefer the one type over the other. At least in the context of this sight.
The one like the above is what I would call a Glamour shot. it is hard to do and still get the subject of your photo to obviously be the object. Tom has done a wonderful job of that in photo one. The other that it looks like you are discribing is what I would call the Mug shot. this type of photo is for getting as clear an image as you can get. grain, form, finish etc. These are characterized by plain solid or nearly solid backgrounds with close up tightly cropped edges. So that others can see in detail the elemints of the pen and how it was made. It is understandable that the mug shot would be prefered on this sight. The Photo Tom is working on is as much an art form as making the pen in the photo was. As for me personally. I start getting really bored with the mug shots. But if someone posts a Glamour shot of a pen i am really interested in I always wish they would follow up with a mug shot. It really is easier to see the pen from a how was it made prospective in a mug shot. The glamour shot is not only fun and challenging to achieve but it is what is needed to present the item to the general public. it can speak Wal-Mart, or Macys to the viewer. Most people will not notice details about a pen unless they actually buy it and spend some time holding and looking at it. But they will recognize in an instant if they like it. Everything about this photo is pointing the viewer in that direction. The pen is electric and exciting. It stands out, it even causes questions to sort of fleet through the viewers mind. It says this pen is gorgeous. it causes the viewer to want it as well. The question is does it make them want it bad enough to part with $XX.XX (Just some of my understanding of marketing)
In short this type of Photo is intended to display the pen in such a way that it will catch the eye of the casual viewer. I think this one would do that very well.
Now unless you want to build a web sight, print a catalog or simply enjoy the challenge of the Glamour shot. There really isn't much need to try and take them. your complicating an already complicated task. But also exorcising some skills that will translate to penturning (Design wise).
Ah well this is getting long enough. I started thinking about some of the elemints that make a good glamour shot. but there are entire college courses that cover that. don't think I'll fit it in here.


----------



## WoodChucker

Daniel, I agree that Tom's picture is beautiful. I might be missing the objective here. If it's a glamor shot he was after then I think he nailed it. I guess what I thought he wanted was a picture that would draw the attention to his pen and I don't think it does that. All of us here will look at, and right away see how nice the pen is because thats what he asked us to do. I'm just not sure if it would be the best photo to sell his pens. 

Like I said in the other post, I'm no pro at this and I'm fishing for the right bait also. I've seen many beautiful pictures here on this forum and I give Tom and the others all the credit in the world for being able to master nice photos. I'm just trying to find the middle of the road which is what I thought he was doing too. 

Tom, I sure hope I didn't make it sound like I didn't like your picture or your pen. Because I think there both great. Also, I hope you understand the point I was trying to make? I don't always do a good job at that when I write. Guess I need help there too. lol.


----------



## Old Griz

RT, I appreciate all and any criticisms, you are not huring my feelings, but giving me more to think about...
I am trying to do two things at once and may not be able too... I want people to see my pens for what they are and at the same time see them in an interesting image... I am trying to make the customer see the pen as a unique instrument for writing.. therefore the postcard background... and at the same time I want them to see the beauty of the pen and the fit and finish... 
I probably will never be able to get that balance... so for now I am doing some Glamour shots to see if I can find that balance... if I can't I will most likely go to a plain background and a simple support... but I am hoping to be a little more artsy... LOL


----------



## Daniel

R.T.
 I started writing something and then hit control B by accident. that delets the message I was writing. but here is a shorter version.
I am not knocking your opinion at all. just trying to describe anouther point of view. this sort of photo probably is not the best to sell a pen with. more of a presentation photo in my thinking. like get there attention then show more details. what it really comes down to is personal taste as it is very much in the realm of art. it is also getting into subtle details and how they effect someone emotionally. and you can never really predict that for every individual. The only person that can really know if this photo is right is Tom. He knows what he set out to get, even if it was a general idea. asking everyone there opinion is begging for the full spectum comments. I think its the cats meow, you think it's wrong. and you know what. we are both right. that's the magic of art and creativity. You are ahead of alot of people in that you have an idea of what you like and don't like. that is your style showing up.
that is what in time will cause your work to be recognizable as your work. I can recognize a Norman Rockwell painting from a mile away. and there are many other instances of that sort of thing. look at a dozen of Ed's pens and see if you don't start recognizing the from just a glance. sure you will still look for his name on the post, but that will just be to confirm what you already knew. if we all had the same taste there would only be one pen kit and it would be everyones favorite. of course that would have to be the Platinum Gent's Rollerball cause that is my favorite and I am sure knowbody could possibly have any other pen as there favorite.
I actually have a way of taking pictures of people that when you look through my family photo albums you will start saying. "Daniel took that one" that is simply style and there si no right and wrong when it comes to style. but say you liked how the photos look. I could then teach you the mechanics behind repeating it. tell you what tools to use etc. that si what I see Tom is descovering. the tools, settings etc. that will produce his look. that he posted this picture for comments tells me he is at least close to what he wants with it.


----------



## DCBluesman

Wow, Daniel.  I'm glad we got the "short" version. []


----------



## WoodChucker

Tom, glad you understood what I meant. I have much respect for your work and wouldn't want you to think otherwise. I think you will find the look your wanting and I'm sure sooner or later I will too. But hey, if we don't then thats OK too, because then it will keep our interest and have something to shoot for. []

Daniel, I didn't think you were knocking my opinion. I just wanted to make sure Tom understood what I meant. I wouldn't want everyone to agree with me, I'd never learn anything if they did. []

I think if you and I had a verbal conversation we would find that our opinions are not that far off. But what we like might be a little different and thats fine. The biggest problem I have with reading is I tend to read between the lines. That can get me in trouble and I try not to, but it still happens. Anyway, thanks for taking the time to see if I took what you said the wrong way. But I didn't, and I always learn a little from your post and find them interesting. []


----------



## Old Griz

OK RT... I see where you get your attitude... your a retired Detroit Police Officer,... I can relate.. my Dad is a retired NYC Homicide Detective... almost 30 yrs on NYPD... forced retirement at 65... he would have gone back in a minute... thought I recognized that kind of attitude.... 

Only Joking... had to toss something in here.... LOL...


----------



## WoodChucker

lol, yeah I guess that has something to do with it, but its a secret so don't tell anyone. []

I give your Dad credit, I left the day of my 25 years and you couldn't pay me enough to go back.


----------



## Daniel

> _Originally posted by DCBluesman_
> <br />Wow, Daniel.  I'm glad we got the "short" version. []


O.K. so I either have way to much time for this group or non at all. So I have to make up for lost time. I want a counter that keeps track of words posted not just messages. I think it woudld put me back at the top of the heap. unless it edits out typos


----------



## lkorn

Tom,
Quit listening to these windbags [].  Obviously they have way too much time on their hands. Actually I enjoyed the discussion.  When I get there I want to see your photo setup, and ten minutes on the software.  

Daniel,  If you broke your posts up into shorter 'thoughts' and then kept sending additional thoughts, your post count would skyrocket and you soon approach the No.! spot for the windbag club [][:I]


----------



## Dario

The one on the left is definitely better and color/contrast on the pen itself is also much crispier...I think you are cheating Tom. LOL

GREAT jb!!!

Now if only I can take pictures that nice...


----------



## jdavis

on the left gets my vote


----------



## pastorbill1952

All said, I personally like the left one.


----------

