# frustration with threading



## Russianwolf (Dec 30, 2008)

the tap I got off ebay for the section seems to be too big. The tap I bought is a m10 x 1.0 g but no matter what size hole I start with, once the tap is done, the section just goes straight through with not a single thread touching. Not being a pro on these things, does that g indicate something that I'm not aware of?

here is the exact tap that I have

http://cgi.ebay.com/M10-x-1-0-D6-3-...ptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116

So should it be a m9 x 1?


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## johnnycnc (Dec 30, 2008)

Mike,I don't see it making a huge difference,but..
the D-6 specification on your tap;
the D is tolerance. in your case : oversize, by .078mm or .003 inch.
How do D-limits affect tap size? The pitch diameter of the tap increases 0.013mm 
(0.0005") between successive tap-limit numbers, the same rate of increase found with H-limits in standard taps. 
I think you may have the wrong size, or you may be just getting it started a bit off.
hand tapping? might try holdin the tap in a drill chuck in your tailstock,and advance
the spindle by hand, no power.
Not sure how you are going about it, but I've wallowed my share of threads out!:redface:


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## Russianwolf (Dec 30, 2008)

Thanks John,
   I'm leaning towards the wrong size. The drilling and tapping were both done on the lathe (hand powered for the tap) in the drill chuck, so I'm not too worried about it being out of whack. 

I'm wondering what others are using for this  in terms of taps and drill bits. If I need another tap, no big deal, I just want to make sure I get one that will work. The threading I'm doing for the cap are working fine with the tap and die set that I'm using.


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## Texatdurango (Dec 30, 2008)

Mike,

As you're probably figuring out, all front sections are not the same size, without knowing what section you are using I can't offer much help with what you are experiencing. I will offer some things to think about however...

When I use a Berea front section I drill the blank with an "R" drill bit then tap with a 10 x 1mm tap. This has worked fine on over three dozen pens now. Before saying anything further, I would appreciate it if folks wouldn't post just to correct me by quoating from a machinist threading manual. The threads used on the front sections we encounter are NOT standard threads, at least none of the sections I have used. The Berea sections are not 10 x 1mm BUT they are close enough to work.

The front sections that come with the Craft Supply kits as well as the smaller Schmidt sections are too small for a 10 x 1mm tap and will fall right through the hole, I suspect this may be what you are experiencing.

If you want to use the 10 x 1mm tap, I would suggest visiting Arizona Sillhouette and having a look at his Berea nibs #BHW-703, BHW-704, BHW-705.

For the Craft Supply, Schmidt and sections sold by several other vendors you will need other taps. It's good to have a nice selection of taps, that is why I visited Victor tap and die.

Another thing, if you look at a front section where the threads stop, there is usually a small shoulder, some are squared off, some have a slight radius.  In either case, once you tap the pen body you will need to clean out the inside where the threads start so the shoulder will fit inside the body.  THis will be very obvious when you try to thread a section into your pen and it won't thread all the way in.

Hope this helps some.


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## BRobbins629 (Dec 30, 2008)

What nib section are you using?  The nib sections from the Churchill/El Grande are the only ones that have a 10x1 thread.  Most of the other nibs are smaller and would fall through.


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## Russianwolf (Dec 30, 2008)

This is the nib section from the Baron that I'm working with. I bought some from CSUSA (now discountinued) and they fit the Baron also. If these are smaller, that would explain it. Just need to have the appropriate size (or acceptable size) so that I can get the right tap if I don't already have it.

just looked again, and it's bigger than a m8 (the m8x1 die will not thread onto it) but smaller than the m10 (It falls through the m10x1.25 die).


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## Russianwolf (Dec 31, 2008)

AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!


Tried Lowes, Sears and Autozone.

No one stocks single taps any more it seems and what they do have are only the basic standards. Heck some of the Sears kits don't even say what they have in them on the box, you have to look in the tiny window and how the taps are turned just right.

That being said, I've narrowed it down to likely being a m9x1 or a 11/32x24 either should work if I can find them. 

Since I can't find one locally, I guess I'll be ordering them from victornet.


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## Dan_F (Dec 31, 2008)

I can't find it now, but someone I think therehave been a few mentions of the correct tap for the Baron sized sections. If you look around, you should be able to dig it up. Might be 9 x .75 or something like that. If I run across it, I'll post it here. I know I wrote it down, but where it is now... 

Dan


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## BRobbins629 (Dec 31, 2008)

I think the Baron is an oddball size.  I have a note that it is approximately 8.4 x 1 mm so it would likely need a special order. No guarantee on the size, just my note.


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## Dan_F (Jan 1, 2009)

So are the Baron sections a different size than CSUSA Jr?

Dan


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## BRobbins629 (Jan 1, 2009)

Dan_F said:


> So are the Baron sections a different size than CSUSA Jr?
> 
> Dan


Pretty sure they are interchangeable. I have used a CSUSA calligraphy nib which comes with the threaded section in a Baron with no problem.


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## Texatdurango (Jan 1, 2009)

You might try a 8mm x .75mm tap for the Baron and smaller Craft Supply sections found on the Jr size pens.

An alternative to tapping the lower body would be visit Elliot Landes' (xylostyle) website and have a look at the brass inserts he sells. 

Rather than drilling and tapping the lower barrel, you drill for and install a brass sleeve which is already threaded for the front sections.  This also aleviates the problem some are having of tapping both inner and outer threads on the lower body. 

Here is a pen I made using the brass insert mentioned above. The front section shown is a modified section from a Jr size kit. They thread together nicely. The downside to the brass insert is that it can be seen with translucent blanks.  The upside is that it gives strength to the threaded area.


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## Russianwolf (Jan 1, 2009)

I'll give a shot in a bit to be sure (I know I have the m8x.75) but if I recall it wouldn't even start to thread into the matching die that I have.


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## Russianwolf (Jan 1, 2009)

okay, I was wrong. I have a m8x1. Checking the thread spacing, it's definitely closer to a 1 than a .75. But the m8x1 is just too tight. I think the m9x1 is likely what is needed but won't be sure until I get my hands on one.


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## ldb2000 (Jan 1, 2009)

Russianwolf said:


> okay, I was wrong. I have a m8x1. Checking the thread spacing, it's definitely closer to a 1 than a .75. But the m8x1 is just too tight. I think the m9x1 is likely what is needed but won't be sure until I get my hands on one.


 
That is one of the problems . The kit companies are using non standard sizes for their threads . The 10x1 is not an exact fit for the ElGrande threads just a "close enough for government work" fit . I stopped using the baron front sections and just use the nib/feed and holder assy in my own front section (grip) which I can thread in several different ways .


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## BRobbins629 (Jan 2, 2009)

Russianwolf said:


> okay, I was wrong. I have a m8x1. Checking the thread spacing, it's definitely closer to a 1 than a .75. But the m8x1 is just too tight. I think the m9x1 is likely what is needed but won't be sure until I get my hands on one.


The 9x1 will be too loose.  This needs a special 8.4 x 1.

Another option that I have thought about but never tried is to fill the threads (either before or after cutting them off) with PR or epoxy and try to recut the threads with a common die size.  Don't know if it will work, but it is on my list of things to try someday.


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## btboone (Jan 2, 2009)

Part of the problem is the molded threads themselves.  Looking at them with an optical comparitor, they are more rounded and stick straight out more than proper 60 degree threads would do.  I had to compensate for this when I made my own taps for my first pen attempts.

One good source for taps is MSCdirect.com  They have M9 x .75 and M9 x 1 hand taps.


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