# I Need the Alton Brown of pen turning...



## putnamm (Jan 21, 2016)

One of the reasons that I connect with Alton Brown is that he explains why recipes work the way that they do. I've seen a lot of great advice and suggestions on this and other websites. There are a lot of great pen turning videos on YouTube. But very rarely do I come across anyone explaining why things work the way that they do. For example, I watched a multi-part video on YouTube the other day about how to finish pens. It involved multiple steps of CA glue application, BLO, sanding (dry and wet), polishing and more. But rarely--if at all--was it explained why the things were being done and why they were being done in that order.

Is there anyone out there like Alton Brown in the pen turning (or just plain woodworking) community who can help explain the scientific principles behind some of the things we do?

Thanks,
Mark


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## Woodguy95 (Jan 21, 2016)

I may be of some help on some subjects but not on all. Everyone has their different methods of dooing. It's not science or cooking it cannot be explained the same way. Anyway if you ask someone and then go ask someone else they will both give you different ways of dooing and their reasons. 

You need to forge your own opinion of finishes for example. You can watch all the videos you want but the most important part of getting a nice finish is to fail. Then you will get a better sense of what you are dooing it and why you are. you can pm me if you have any question on how it works chemically for a ca finish as I do not want to writes a 2 page post on that XD. 
Hope that helps a bit


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## Curly (Jan 21, 2016)

Nope.

A number of the members can explain portions of it, but there are many ways to skin the cat so most try a few ways of doing things until they lock on to a method they like and champion that. 

Cutthroat Pen Shop anyone?


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## KCW (Jan 21, 2016)

Hi Mark, I am a physical properties testing laboratory manager, when I'm not turning at the lathe, so I appreciate the science behind things.  I am by no means an expert in the pen turning field, but I would venture to guess, that most of what you are seeing and reading, are skills acquired by trial and error in the shop, and not by scientific experiment, or method.  When you come here and someone tells others what worked for them, that is exactly what it is, someone found a way that works for them, knowing why is secondary to the fact that it works.  I'm not saying that the answers are not out there, because they definitely are, but if you go to a casual forum, or youtube, you will likely not find the science behind the actions.  If you went to a chemistry forum and posted your question about BLO and CA, you might have better luck with finding the chemical reaction that may make that beneficial.  This is all from a marginally experienced turner, who looks at things scientifically, I could be way off base.


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## KenV (Jan 21, 2016)

There are a couple significant differences.

1. Alto Brown gets paid

2.  Alton has a paid staff

3. There are a number of publications about food science, both for the restaurant trade, but also for the amateur chefs.


Pro Bono pen turning just does not have the Food Network structure.

There is a lot of information available, but you need to be pretty specific in the asking of questions as well as filtering facts/data from opinions and "works OK for me" responses.


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## chartle (Jan 21, 2016)

Curly said:


> Cutthroat Pen Shop anyone?



If you win this auction you can replace _*ALL*_your competitors turning tools with either ......

a set of kitchen knives
a sharpened screwdriver
or a penknife. get it _"pen" knife_. :wink:


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## magpens (Jan 21, 2016)

This craft is a mixture of science and art in proportions determined by the crafter.


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## lyonsacc (Jan 21, 2016)

If my memory serves me right, and it is a little fuzzy at the moment, there was a somewhat scientific post about CA and BLO - maybe sometime in 2013. I'll see if I can find it.


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## lyonsacc (Jan 21, 2016)

Search for the post "why does BLO speed up CA cure time". About the 9th or10th entry has some of that science stuff in it. The post is from2009. 
Sorry I can't post a link. I am on my cell and don't know how to use it that well.


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## plantman (Jan 21, 2016)

Mark; In the past I have written out answers on this site as too how and why things are done, both scientific and technical. And I have the hope that it will help someone with a question or problem. I don't believe in a single word answer, or an answer without an explanation as to how or why. However, I find these answers to be long winded, boaring, and contain scientific language most people will have to look up the meanings of. Finishing, like cooking, is dependent on heat, humidity, proper mixing, skill. and time to name a few. Now you add in the X factor, and it may work for you or not as stated. Everyone's pinch of this and sprinkle of that is different. So we must rely on trial and err. Also if everyone did something the same way and no one moved beyond, we would never advance. Short answer. Different strokes for different folks.   Jim   S


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## JimB (Jan 21, 2016)

YouTube videos are short and focus on how to do something, not how it works. If you want to know how CA works you can easily Google the information. If you are interested in why you should do things a certain way when turning you will need a longer video than most YouTube videos. If you get a full length DVD from a professional woodturner they often give more detailed explanations as to why you should do things a certain way. Some of the professionals do have full length YouTube videos. However, even among the professionals, you will get conflicting information because they each find a way that works for them.


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## Bikerdad (Jan 21, 2016)

plantman said:


> Finishing, like cooking, is dependent on heat, humidity, proper mixing, skill. and time to name a few. Now you add in the X factor, and it may work for you or not as stated.



This.  The simple fact is that almost everything we do can be reduced to an explicit "recipe".  The problem is, unlike a large manufacturing concern, we lack the resources to pin down and minimize the variables.  We don't have clean rooms with stable temp and humidity levels, so we have to contend with the variables those factors introduce.  We don't have, or rarely use, CNC equipment that will turn objects with repeated accuracy.  Nor do many of us use moisture meters and incorporate the resulting info into our process beyond "yup, it's ready to turn/stabilize" or "nope, back on the shelf/in the microwave to dry some more"

So our processes are much more like art than science.


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## ChewTerr (Jan 21, 2016)

Curly said:


> Cutthroat Pen Shop anyone? [/FONT]



I feel like every time I step into the garage to work, I've already sabotaged myself in one way or another!  I don't need the help, I already make too many "deconstructed" and "rustic" abominations!


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## edstreet (Jan 21, 2016)

putnamm said:


> One of the reasons that I connect with Alton Brown is that he explains why recipes work the way that they do. I've seen a lot of great advice and suggestions on this and other websites. There are a lot of great pen turning videos on YouTube. But very rarely do I come across anyone explaining why things work the way that they do. For example, I watched a multi-part video on YouTube the other day about how to finish pens. It involved multiple steps of CA glue application, BLO, sanding (dry and wet), polishing and more. But rarely--if at all--was it explained why the things were being done and why they were being done in that order.  Is there anyone out there like Alton Brown in the pen turning (or just plain woodworking) community who can help explain the scientific principles behind some of the things we do?  Thanks, Mark



Yes. There are a few of us who can and have done that. The problem is no matter how scientific, factual or correct you may be about the topic the group as a whole will still never move beyond that to the next level. There will be a few who do get it and understand. After you are exhausted by explaining things the very next week someone will ask the same questions and expect instant, free and rapid answers. 

So the advanced users more often vanish or withdrawal than contribute. 

Also Alton Brown gets paid to be scientific answers and the like, all we get is grief.


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## putnamm (Jan 22, 2016)

First, as an admitted newbie to this forum and having been on a two-decades-long hiatus from pen turning, let me apologize if I offended anyone. I did not mean to suggest that the information and advice on this forum is in any way lacking or insufficient. I really do appreciate all of the knowledge that is out there and the time it has taken to acquire it.

Also, as with cooking, I enjoy experimentation in woodworking. And I recognize it as both art and science. In fact, one of the reasons I got back in to it is that one of my sons is exploring different artistic media.

I appreciate everyone's feedback and will take a look in to some of the recommendations you all have made.

Thanks,
Mark


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## plantman (Jan 22, 2016)

putnamm said:


> First, as an admitted newbie to this forum and having been on a two-decades-long hiatus from pen turning, let me apologize if I offended anyone. I did not mean to suggest that the information and advice on this forum is in any way lacking or insufficient. I really do appreciate all of the knowledge that is out there and the time it has taken to acquire it.
> 
> Also, as with cooking, I enjoy experimentation in woodworking. And I recognize it as both art and science. In fact, one of the reasons I got back in to it is that one of my sons is exploring different artistic media.
> 
> ...



Mark; I don't think anyone took offence to you question, I know I didn't !! I think the worst videos out there are the ones with no sound. They may show you how to do something, but have no words telling you exactly how or why they are doing it.  And it is a good question to be asked as well, and I think all answers were spot on for the most. The problem comes down to the amount of time it takes to do a given task and the amount of time you have to explain in detail how it was done and why someone chose to do it in the fashion they did. If you choose to cover a task, I feel you should have a 1-2 hour video with sound, or write a book with a lot of photos to show how and why. The best thing to do is look at as many methods of doing a task that people have presented, and pick out a few that seem correct for your method of work. Try these few to see if something clicks better than others, then practice and perfect that method and add any modifications as you learn until something else better comes along. Ask questions if you run into problems, that's why we all are on this site to learn and teach in order to keep the craft/art alive and moving forward.    Jim  S


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