# Using Metal Inserts



## beck3906 (Mar 10, 2009)

I see several people using some type of metal for segmenting work on their pens.

Question.....

Has anyone experienced a problem where the wod has shrunk after turning leaving the metal higher than the wood surface?  My thoughts are that the wood would contract some due to drying and leave an exposed edge to the metal.

Anyone have thoughts or experiences?


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## leehljp (Mar 10, 2009)

Several factors:
• Use dry or stabilized wood and it won't happen. 
• Unless you use very green wood, you won't have much of a problem most of the time.
• Some woods move more than others. The least moving/shrinking wood is mesquite. 

Read up on the wood and find out how much it moves as it dries. I like segmenting with brass and have done a few with aluminum. I have not had a problem yet.

Microwave the blanks for 20 seconds; cool for 5 minutes, 20 seconds, cool - do this 3 or 4 times to remove moisture and it should help.


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## stolicky (Mar 10, 2009)

I don't want to change the direction of this thread, if this is beyond the original intent please ignore my question, but what glue do people use when gluing metallic pieces to wood?

I have done limited variation so far, and I ended up using CA after some trial and error.  I would think that the glue used would also play a role in the flexibility of the interface between the metal and the limited movement of the wood.

Thanks.


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## WoodWrite (Mar 10, 2009)

I have used Med CA to hold brass, copper, silver, and gold to wood. You need to be careful not to allow the CA to "spill over" onto the metal. I have not tried any other glue, so this is the only method I have.

I would also like to know what others have tried.


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## leehljp (Mar 10, 2009)

I will add in a second and third aspect that is easy to cause problems:

1. IF not careful, it is easy to turn a bit more wood off - next to the metal thereby exacerbate the problem that you mentioned.

2. Sanding on mid and light colored woods will cause tremendous about of metal dust. Cleaning gets complicated. I turn my final turns with a just sharpened and finely honed scraper or skew, and often do not need to sand.

I use Epoxy and clamps. CA does not give me the open time that I need to get everything set perfectly. But that is my method only. Other methods and glues work fine for different people.


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## workinforwood (Mar 11, 2009)

I have had  your problem.  My wood is dry.  Like you say though, wood changes all year long and it changes the opposite that metal does.  When it's hot, the metal expands, but the wood shrinks.  I have not had one fall apart, but I have had them with a CA finish where the CA cracked at the joints due to the differences.  Now I use either acrylic poly or catalysed urethane as a finish.  The finish is nice and hard and long lasting, but flexible enough to allow the wood to expand, with or without metal inlays.
  Like Hank..when using metal inlays, I finish with a light pass of a skew..no sanding.  At certain times of the year, the metal is going to raise beyond the wood and you can do nothing about it buy apply a finish that can expand and contract with it.  Sanding the blank exacerbates the problem because the metal will be proud of the wood before you even start finishing.  So my answer to you question is Yes, but that doesn't mean not to make them, just know how and what you are getting into.


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## marcruby (Mar 11, 2009)

I've only just begun using metal segments (not inlays) and so far I'm enjoying beginner's luck.  So this discussion is of a great deal of interest.  I've been using silver rather than aluminum stock since it's easier to clean silver than aluminum.  I's like to use gold instead of brass, but the cost is prohibitive - especially when a significant amount of the metal becomes shavings.  

For a comparison, it costs about $5.00 to put a few 28 gauge silver segments in a decent sized pen and about $200 for the same in gold, so brass it is.  I've also just discovered that jewelers brass is a great improvement on hobby shop brass.  

Based on what I've read I'll probably use something like Waterlox as a sealer/finish on wood.  It's a hard, tung oil based finish that is pretty handling resistant, but retains some flexibility.  Of course, if you're doing plastics the issue just doesn't arise.

Any advice anyone can offer would be more than welcome.


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## jkeithrussell (Mar 11, 2009)

I recently did a nice cigar pen with holly and purpleheart with 0.10 aluminum in between the wood sections. It was perfectly flat and smooth when I finished, now it has a couple of bumps. No big deal. 

As for sanding, I agree with Jeff that you should use your skew (as sharp as you can get it and a very, very light touch) to very carefully smooth the aluminum. You should just barely feel the aluminum bumping the skew until it is smooth. Sandpaper is dangerous when you have reached your final shape/size because it will act more aggressively on the wood that surrounds the aluminum. 

I imagine but don't know for sure that the thinner the metal inlay, the less of a problem this would be (also the less noticeable the metal would be).

BTW, I use thick CA for the glue up and leave it tightly clamped for at least 24 hours.


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## jackrichington (Mar 12, 2009)

Just my 1cent worth..ca glue is brittle stuff..bowl turners use it to glue on waste blocks, then when they are done they hit (smartly) and the waste block cracks off...how much this applies to pens, I don't know, but I could envision dropping a pen on a sharp edge or on concrete and have it break the joint


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## marcruby (Mar 12, 2009)

In most cases there's a metal tube running up the pen that really provides the important support.  In the case of a non-kit pen there are other possible reinforcement schemes.  I used structural epoxy for the tube as a better option than CA.

Marc



jackrichington said:


> Just my 1cent worth..ca glue is brittle stuff..bowl turners use it to glue on waste blocks, then when they are done they hit (smartly) and the waste block cracks off...how much this applies to pens, I don't know, but I could envision dropping a pen on a sharp edge or on concrete and have it break the joint


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