# Where is the hobby going?



## Smitty37 (Jun 8, 2014)

When I first started in this hobby, the focus was turning wood blanks into ben barrels.  The popular kits were usually attractive enough but the designs were mostly kind of plain - I always assumed that was because the barrel was going to be the focus of attention.  

But there seems to be a change taking place with Plastic and other materials moving into the barrels and at the same time there seems to be a move toward the hardware becoming the center of attention.  PSI has a whole bunch of relatively new offerings that bear witness to this...kind of beginning with the cartridge kits, 30 cal, then 50 cal, then over/under (BTW I know full well that PSI was not the first folks to make these kits - I bought one long before PSI listed them - but PSI is the industry leader in kit sales) the bolt action, magnum bolt action mini bolt action, civil war, dutchess,princess, victorian, celtic, knights armor, sparten. southwest and on and on.

Now let me say this I am offering no opinion as to whether this is good or bad.  I am asking a question related to this --- well more than one question.

Am I correct in assuming this is taking place or am I reading too many PSI Catalogs?

If I am correct, will it continue happening?

Where do you think it's going?

What is driving it.


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## toddlajoie (Jun 8, 2014)

For me personally, I like things that are new and different, which is difficult to come by when we're all working with mass produced component sets. I know that there is also a market for what sells, and what sells can be directly affected by where people try to sell. I think that's the main reason that the various cartridge sets are so popular...

Personally, there are about 5 or 6 pen styles that I find to be ones that I would purchase or carry myself, and as a wood nut, I'm fine with sticking with those 5 or 6 styles and let the wood remain the focus. I've never been one for the overly ornate sets...

But as a group, you can easily see how someone here comes up with an idea that has a new look (recent examples would be the Steampunk and Japanese paper blanks) and many others try to make something similar or develop variations on that theme. I think the new styles of components that get made are similar. You see different manufacturers making similar styles once something becomes popular, or take an existing set and produce a modification to it that makes it a little different (i.e. the larger centerbands added to the basic slimline kit) just to keep things fresh and hope that it catched fire commercially.


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## Cmiles1985 (Jun 8, 2014)

In PSI's recent releases and upcoming component sets, the focus does seem to have shifted towards the components. I have a difficult time with wanting to show off someone else's design personally. The exception being the 30 cal/magnum bolt action. And that is strictly due to my locale and interests of my colleagues and customers. I don't really do ornate blanks in the way of segmenting or shaping. I like for the "natural" portion of the pen to be the focal point. Technically that puts me showing "someone else's" design, but I'm the one that uncovered it and made it into what someone else wants.

I've seen some great pens made with these new kits, but my personal preference is towards the traditional styles. That could just be my inner "old guy" talking.


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## BSea (Jun 8, 2014)

OK, I'll give my 2¢.

I agree with you that it is happening. And yes, you are reading too many PSI catalogs.:biggrin:

I do think it will continue because I believe the pen makers that are buying the majority of the kits are people who sell a lot of pens.  And who buys the majority of the kit?  I think they are people that want an gift for someone, or something a little unique for themselves.  Those people generally don't know the first thing about pens other than to use it to write.  So to them, a bright blingy pen is cool.  Just don't expect the majority of them to go above $100 for a pen.  They like the crystals, the turquoise, and the themed pens like the medieval & southwest.  And as long as it's wrapped in something that compliments the kit, they are happy.

But aren't we as the pen makes kind of the same?  We OOOH & AHHH over the steampunk blanks, the metal foil blanks (which I guess is steampunk too), feather blanks, coin blanks, you name it.  And we generally put those on more conservative kits.  I have yet to see a watch face blank on a shock absorber kit. And I think the reason is we want the pen to appeal to someone who will pay over $100 - $200 or more for the pen.

And what drives it is what has always driven sales of anything - Demand.


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## skiprat (Jun 8, 2014)

Where's it going? It's going down hill....fast.

When guys moved out of their garages, sheds and workshops and then moved into studios....
When guys stopped being turners and became 'artists'......
When kits became component sets......
When kit pens became Fine Writing Instruments....

All the pretentious crap made the vendors think we needed more bling and now offer us these over priced junk kits....

Save the pretentious nonsense for your sales pitch when you sell the pen, but don't kid yourselves here.

Ok, off my soap box now....


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## Dalecamino (Jun 8, 2014)

skiprat said:


> Where's it going? It's going down hill....fast.
> 
> When guys moved out of their garages, sheds and workshops and then moved into studios....
> When guys stopped being turners and became 'artists'......
> ...


Steven...get back on that box....you're doing great!:biggrin: 

I don't know where IT'S going but, I have a good idea where, I'M going. :wink: One thing....there are increasing choices of man made blanks being produced which, are more attractive than wood (IMO) although, I DO love a nice wood blank. But, MAN...the prices of kits have soared over the past few years. Seems the more turners are buying, the higher the price goes.


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## plantman (Jun 8, 2014)

I agree with skiprat, but maybe with not so harsh words. The industry is progressing by leaps and bounds, more and more people are putting more and better looking pen kits together, but fewer and fewer of us are actualy creating new styles and pens that are  actualy one-off  works of craftsmanship or art. We had a thread the other day that asked everyone how fast can you make a pen? In my eyes, the question should be , how good can you make a pen?. Not to pick on PSI, but I have been watching the new pens they have been putting out lately. They are very impressive looking, but there aren't to many blanks out there that will add anything to make them better looking. They are selling someone elses skills and talents in the designs of the kits and leaving little or no room for the penmakers to display whatever talents they may have. Personaly I don't see it as a good thing for the craft itself or for the craftsman. I have yet to buy any of PSI's new kits.   Jim  S


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## Smitty37 (Jun 8, 2014)

dalecamino said:


> skiprat said:
> 
> 
> > Where's it going? It's going down hill....fast.
> ...


In Economics 101 they call that supply and demand.  The price of an item will go to the point of greatest return (not, as some think, the highest possible price) to the seller


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## Dalecamino (Jun 8, 2014)

Not pointing fingers Leroy. Just an observation which, has a lot to do with my direction. Not to say, I will never buy another kit. I am sure I will. Some day.


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## turncrazy43 (Jun 8, 2014)

I think the new kits from PSI are very interesting and  I have bought them and have sold them. The customers are interested in the new looks and they appeal to a certain segment of the public. Are they adding to the artistic or skill and craftability of the turner? Probably not. However, there are a portion of my customers that like the creativeness of certain pens and others are drawn to the new kits. The market seems to support both. As long as there is interested in both types of products the makers will continue to produce these newer kits. In MHO its good and will continue.
____________________________________________
Everyday I'm vertical is a great day


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## Jjartwood (Jun 8, 2014)

I think that the latest array of offerings is an attempt at marketing to the unimaginative and lazy. I enjoy making things that are different but I also realize that there are pens made to show to other pen makers that are somewhat different and there are pens for pen buyers.
If you can't get the idea across with a general look and feel, then all the "theme" kits in the world will not get it done. I sell bolt actions because people like the bolt action not because of the bullet theme. I did several Knights Armor kits for fun and they will probably be in the cases at the end of the season. I am relatively new at this pen thing by comparison to some but I do know that if you do not build a sound pen all the bling in the world will not help. I hope that I have not offended anyone this is JUST MY opinion


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## Krash (Jun 8, 2014)

plantman said:


> I agree with skiprat, but maybe with not so harsh words. The industry is progressing by leaps and bounds, more and more people are putting more and better looking pen kits together, but fewer and fewer of us are actualy creating new styles and pens that are  actualy one-off  works of craftsmanship or art. We had a thread the other day that asked everyone how fast can you make a pen? In my eyes, the question should be , how good can you make a pen?. Not to pick on PSI, but I have been watching the new pens they have been putting out lately. They are very impressive looking, but there aren't to many blanks out there that will add anything to make them better looking. They are selling someone elses skills and talents in the designs of the kits and leaving little or no room for the penmakers to display whatever talents they may have. Personaly I don't see it as a good thing for the craft itself or for the craftsman. I have yet to buy any of PSI's new kits.   Jim  S



I've only been turning pens for 4 months so I don't have the history or experience from the past. But most of what Jim says is correct in my eyes and it is true of any technological advancement. The new pen styles are someone else's creative design to make the craftsman's output looks better or more exquisite. It doesn't demand any artistic input to put out a fantastic looking pen that will sell well. All that is needed is good woodworking skills and finishing techniques and you can crank out tons of pens for craft shows. The internet is filled with these pens .... superbly executed pens with beautiful wood or other material. But, nothing can replace the original expression of an artist. Every year we have a competition ... The Russ Fairfield contest. Why? Because Russ took the ordinary and artistically created something new. Entry after entry tries to recapture what Russ did or qualify for something Russ would have given a thumbs up to. But it's hard to recreate since it's the artistry that we are drawn to. 
So, technology has again given us new tools for our belts. What new ideas can we come up with to distinguish our work above the craftsman level? There is nothing wrong with this trend because it allows more people to create better looking pens. Don't take it as negative, but as a challenge.


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## ed4copies (Jun 8, 2014)

The assertion that pen kits are getting more expensive is probably inaccurate.

This industry publishes very little in the way of statistics, but the slimline has always been the most popular.  In the  mid-1990's I paid over $4 a kit, buying in hundred to 300 quantities.  NOW, you buy ONE kit and pay under $2.

PSI is forging forward with new designs.  "Everyone" wants NEW>  so PSI flourishes and continues to produce NEW.  When demand for the bolt action cools, they will have a replacement that will be "HOT".  Just keep throwing it at the wall and see what sticks.

As pen makers today you have a selection of kits that is incredible! And a selection of price points from under $2 to nearly $100.  You can select blanks that again range from under $2 (sierra takes half a blank) to well over $100.  The pieces are available to anyone who wants to fill any single part of the market.  Remember, Russ Fairfield turned LOTS of pens that did not LOOK  like slimlines, using the slimline "kit".  

And, if you just enjoy penmaking as a hobby, you can choose to spend as much or as little as you wish.  

As penmaking becomes more widely practiced, I suspect the field will widen even more, but it has sure broken down the boundaries of the last century!!!

FWIW,
Ed


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## sbell111 (Jun 8, 2014)

I've been pretty outspoken about how I feel about PSI's recent offerings.  I find them to be over embellished and tacky.  But that's not why I won't buy them.  I won't buy them because I don't want our pens to be seen as the same as the pen guy down the way.  

I prefer it to be as Smitty put it.  The fittings are there to showcase our work.  They are not the canvas.  They are the frame.  When a customer compares our work to that of the next guy, I want him to think of the beautiful blank that was expertly turned and wonderfully finished.  I don't want him to look at the embellished PSI kit and think to himself that he just saw the exact same pen down the row.  Similarly, I don't want the judges of the shows that we attend to key on this fact.


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## Smitty37 (Jun 8, 2014)

dalecamino said:


> Not pointing fingers Leroy. Just an observation which, has a lot to do with my direction. Not to say, I will never buy another kit. I am sure I will. Some day.


Didn't think you were pointing fingers...just saying why it is that as the number of kit sales increase so does the price.


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## GaryT45 (Jun 8, 2014)

Here is my 2 cents worth.
PSI is in the business of selling pen kits.  If they come out with something new, they know that a certain number of people will buy it (and bushings, spare tubes, blanks, etc.) just to say they have made one of that style.
If that style does not last long, well, by then they will have something new, and the cycle repeats itself.
I have not purchased any of the new PSI styles, and at this point, have no plans to.


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## clieb91 (Jun 8, 2014)

Interesting discussion, I have browsed through the PSI catalog a number of time recently and think the kits look cool. However, I can not seem to picture myself making them and putting the proper picture in the frame so to speak. I like the challenge of of getting nice looking finished pieces primarily out of Slimlines. I have purchased a few different kits recently but they still stick to something a little more basic.  
As to blanks, I will say that some of the man made materials look good and folks here do some fantastic looking things with them but I just prefer wood. 

Just my thoughts. 

CtL


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## Kenny Durrant (Jun 8, 2014)

The few years I've been in the hobbie I noticed the change in pen kits. I think it is relevant to the hobbie as a whole. The more people that get involved with the turning side of things the more creative the turners have to be to catch the eyes of potential buyers. Now there are more kit suppliers they have to do the same thing. On the same note when I first started fishing with my father in law we would go restock our tackle boxes and I would always ask what would be the best lures to buy. He said he didn't think it was that big a deal that most lures were made to catch fisherman and not fish.


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## Smitty37 (Jun 8, 2014)

GaryT45 said:


> Here is my 2 cents worth.
> PSI is in the business of selling pen kits.  If they come out with something new, they know that a certain number of people will buy it (and bushings, spare tubes, blanks, etc.) just to say they have made one of that style.
> If that style does not last long, well, by then they will have something new, and the cycle repeats itself.
> I have not purchased any of the new PSI styles, and at this point, have no plans to.


I don't doubt that at all.  But I have been receiving the PSI catalog for years and for most of that time the only thing that changed from catalog to catalog was the page the items were on and perhaps the "featured" page.  The kits they offered were the same, and offering a new plating was the "new".  Now there are new kit(s) in almost every issue.


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## Smitty37 (Jun 8, 2014)

Kenny Durrant said:


> The few years I've been in the hobbie I noticed the change in pen kits. I think it is relevant to the hobbie as a whole. The more people that get involved with the turning side of things the more creative the turners have to be to catch the eyes of potential buyers. Now there are more kit suppliers they have to do the same thing. On the same note when I first started fishing with my father in law we would go restock our tackle boxes and I would always ask what would be the best lures to buy. *He said he didn't think it was that big a deal that most lures were made to catch fisherman and not fish.*


MyDad said the same thing and always fished with night walkers or live minnows.


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## plantman (Jun 8, 2014)

BSea said:


> OK, I'll give my 2¢.
> 
> I agree with you that it is happening. And yes, you are reading too many PSI catalogs.:biggrin:
> 
> ...



Bob; I think you are  on the correct page !! There are three kinds of penmakers. Those who want to make the most amount of money with the least amount of work. Nothing wrong with that formula !! Those of us that like to push the box a little and make something different and new. This will advance the hobby and skill levels. Then there are those who enter a whole new level of creation, and put out pens that we mortals can only dream about !! They can make what they want and charge top dollar for their ideas and craftsmanship. When I do a show, I want something in my display that the guy or girl in the next row over hasn't thought of yet, or hasn't mastered the process of making yet !! I have found in the past that if you come to a craft show with a new idea, and it sells, the next week there will be ten other venders selling the same thing if they have the skill to make it !!!    Jim  S


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## Joe S. (Jun 8, 2014)

Maybe the hobby is splitting in two? There are business hobbyists who enjoy making something and selling it, they get money for their artistic eye and ability to match a kit to a blank (not always as easy as it seems). There are also the people who create pens, they use the "simple" kits and make kitless pens. They sell and get money for their mechanical ability along with their artistic ability. Both create pens (or groups of pens) that are impressive in different ways. Neither hobbyist will likely get along with the other because they don't understand that they are in almost entirely different hobbies. Think of one person spending the whole day producing bolt actions as fast as possible, and another person spending exactly the same amount of time on a single pen or maybe a set of pens. Both (hopefully) enjoyed their day, created items close in value (this is assuming they are both very skilled in their field), will probably sell the whole group or single pen in the same amount of time, and one probably could not do what the other did.

Just thinking out loud.


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## mredburn (Jun 8, 2014)

I would think that they are simply doing what lots of companies do, create excitement over new products to generate more sales.  Car companies come to mind. With new designs in their line up they generate sales on an exciting new product. While you are ordering a new kit to try you will order more items to reduce the price per item shipping charges.  This means you wont order those items from another supplier if your shopping in their store.  Without new designs after awhile you as a turner might get bored and slow down or stop turning pens.  While we have a great deal of inspiration from designer pen makers  here I bet there are"a hundred to one" turners that just like to make a pen without having to remake the wheel.  Every once in awhile one of those new designs kicks off a fad or hits a home run where no one knew there was a need or want.


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## mredburn (Jun 8, 2014)

Joe
We have had that division for quite a while. You will see it in some of the replies in the different threads.  However we differ in that respect we still get along butting heads only occasionally. Mostly we respect each others decision on how we approach this from pure  Hobby to Business.


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## PenMan1 (Jun 8, 2014)

If I could buy a nice assortment of various sized pen clips and high quality center bands in stand alone form, THAT's All I'd buy.

There is some REAL CRAP out there, today. And some of the "old, reliable, high quality stuff",  today leads the CRAP MARATHON. I used to rely on Jr. Gent II hardware as a reliable "goto" set.

Today, the only time I'll buy this turdburger is to FIX a previous customer's pen. AND, at that, I have to rebuild, refit, resize everything. THIS USED TO BE AN "industry standard". Now, it's the bad joke of the industry- AT $30!


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## kovalcik (Jun 8, 2014)

In thinking about this I came up with another reason for all the new kits.  There are a lot more pen turners so now something has to be done to expand the market of people who buy pens.  That is done by targeting a new tier of pen buyers (and probably pen makers) with the themed pens.  Now people who may not normally buy a nice high end pen might buy a bolt action if they like hunting or a knights pen if they are into role playing and so on.  I don't think PSI cares about the artistic integrity of the pen maker.  They care about selling more kits.  They are doing this by making the pens less of a luxury item or status symbol and more of a personal statement on a persons favorite pastime or interest. Now the civil war buff who would never buy a Sierra can have his civil war pen. The guy in New York who spends his money on cowboy apparel and would never think to buy a Big Ben pen can get a Southwest pen.  More people buying pens means we make more pens which means PSI sells more kits.  That is the bottom line.


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## PenMan1 (Jun 8, 2014)

I (last week) ordered 2 "Rhodium" Jr Gent II sets. One in RB and one in FP format.  I used to buy these in very big quantities from several different suppliers. Didn't MATTER which vendor I bought them from, as they were UNIVERSAL and stuff from one vender fit the stuff from all other vendors. 

You'd have to have a very vivid imagination to visualize the "big redneck happy dance" that occurred WHEN THE FRONT SECTIONS OF THE RB AND FP interchanged, JUST LIKE THEY DID WHEN THEY COST $12 and $14 per set.

The happy dance DIDN'T last very long when I realized that NEITHER SECTION fit into the pen I'D made less than 2 years ago. The happy dance turned to EXTREME ANGER when NONE OF THIS $60 expenditure fit the centerband insert or the "post" threads of the older hardware.

The REALLY SAD thing was that the "rhodium" platings didn't match. The 2 year old HEAVILY USED HARDWARE looked better than the new platings

I DON'T know WHO is making the new stuff, but TURDBURGER is speaking kindly!

WHAT A FREAKING NIGHTMARE!


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## PenMan1 (Jun 8, 2014)

SO, I guess where the above rant is going is when that "king's knight's arrmor's Celtic pewter sword titan BREAKS.... GOOD LUCK FIXING IT.

I DON'T look for these sets to be any more popular than a rennisaunce  fair with salmonella turkey legs and horses with diarrhea .


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## Edward Cypher (Jun 8, 2014)

Kenny Durrant said:


> . He said he didn't think it was that big a deal that most lures were made to catch fisherman and not fish.


 
I think this applies to most things in crafts.  Seriously look at what the old turners (Craftsman) had to work with, no HSS, no Carbide, none of the exotic steels, no dialable speed control and yet they did beautiful work.  Same thing happens in leathercraft then you look at what Al Stohlman did with horseshoe nails and wagon springs.  Amazing.  I think all crafts create the new is better attitude so the pen kit (component) manufacturers are just trying to cash in just like the pen makers.  

I love some of the new stuff but I also like the old classics.  The thing that dictates what I buy is usually first do I think it will sell and second if it doesn't do I want it.  Because as you all know sometimes we end up with our products at least until we decide to donate it to some good cause.

This is just my opinion.


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## BayouPenturner (Jun 8, 2014)

I don't know if I am the only nut on here, but I have 400 various kits in my shop and don't sell any pens.  i do like buying the new kits with the thought I will do some work that the artist on this forum create.  I don't have the patience nor the talent to get close.  the tooling needed when we have a lot of different kits is mind boggling.  I a majority of my pens made are for my Woodturner club's a Freedom Pens project.

kits are like tools we all need a lot of them in our man cave/studio.


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## PenMan1 (Jun 8, 2014)

Sorry. Smitty! Your accurate observation hit a never here, so I'm gonna "empty the cylinder, reload, and KEEP SHOOTING!

PSI isn't the only one out there dumping JUNK! You are RIGHT! The price of slimes HAS GONE DOWN! BUT NOT in direct proportion to the quality. I DON'T EVEN MAKE 7 mm twist pens anymore. The transmissions went to hell about 3 or 4 years ago. The included Cross type refills won't write a full page, and the "24K" gold plate won't survive a microfiber cloth and polish wipe down. The price HAS decreased about 30 percent the quality control has decreased about 80 percent.

Back to the "upper priced" sets. The "new" JR GENT II set NO LONGER HAS an adjustable nib setting. It's now Stationary, so adjusting the writing action is done by "goobering around" the hit or miss spring tension. While on the subject of springs, take out one of the new ones and compare it to old one. NUFF SAID.

Also, the included refill use to be a SCHMIDT 888 (5888 pressurized, on the Statesman).The new one is Schneiderman (even though it says so, Schneiderman HASN'T been manufactured in Germany since I've been wearing long pants).

On a Jr Gent II FP, observe the piston pump.....BRAHAHAHAHAHA! Atmospheric changes (such as being ABOVE sea level) will  sometimes cause it to leak. The leakage ONLY  OCCURs on the one or two infrequent occasions that it actually siphons ink.

They DON'T even pretend the nib is worth a crap anymore. The "key way" feed and housing connection is marginal AT BEST. AND THE REAL INSULT is that a Schmidt K4 piston converter doesn't "actually" FIT without leaking.


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## Cmiles1985 (Jun 9, 2014)

I just can't see selling the ornate kit pens for the kind of margin that sustains a penmaker's business. To me, they qualify as novelty items. That is exactly what I consider the bolt action pens I make: a novelty item. A novelty item earns a novelty price. I turn those because I KNOW they will sell, I can crank them out pretty quickly and I'm not fully operating my pen making as a "business." I'd rather spend my $12 on a kit that I'll sell a completed pen for $100+, but the volume isn't necessarily there in my area. So, I sell about 5 bolt action pens per week at $45 to $60 and my hobby is somewhat paid for.


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## Smitty37 (Jun 9, 2014)

*Hmmmm,*

Does all of this mean that you are a little disturbed about things Andy??:biggrin::biggrin:





PenMan1 said:


> Sorry. Smitty! Your accurate observation hit a never here, so I'm gonna "empty the cylinder, reload, and KEEP SHOOTING!
> 
> PSI isn't the only one out there dumping JUNK! You are RIGHT! The price of slimes HAS GONE DOWN! BUT NOT in direct proportion to the quality. I DON'T EVEN MAKE 7 mm twist pens anymore. The transmissions went to hell about 3 or 4 years ago. The included Cross type refills won't write a full page, and the "24K" gold plate won't survive a microfiber cloth and polish wipe down. The price HAS decreased about 30 percent the quality control has decreased about 80 percent.
> 
> ...


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## BayouPenturner (Jun 9, 2014)

I think product quality control had lessened and the pride of masking good kits has gone downhill to make more profit, this will eventually hurt our hobby.  We take great vCard to make a beautiful pen but the kits sometimes cause returns which lessens the desire for customers to buy additional pens since the quality of the product materials lack mfg qa/act.


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## PenMan1 (Jun 9, 2014)

No Smitty, it doesn't mean I'm disturbed. It means that like ANY business, I'm being held hostage by my suppliers. It means I'm firing the kit guys.

The problem has been, for me, that kit less offerings looked like Frankenstein concoctions.

I'm just finding new suppliers and getting BACK into the business of quality control . As more of us do this, the market (or us) will adapt.

I CAN sell Bic pens! Of course, instead of selling 3,000 pens, I'll have to sell 30,000,000 of those. If you are going to sell crap, your strength lies in volume. Look at DOG TREATs. The same folks that are making our pen stuff is making dog treats. 

THOSE TREATS KILL DOGS, but if the price is low enough, millions will STILL BUY themem.


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## Smitty37 (Jun 9, 2014)

I can't speak for other's but the quality of the kits (mostly lower priced) I sell has improved greatly in the six years I've been selling.  Contrary to what some folks seem to think, a manufacturer does not increase profits by putting out junk.  Businesses thrive on repeat customers and junk loses repeat buyers.


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## OLDMAN5050 (Jun 9, 2014)

I'm just doing this as a hobby so all the new kits are far beyond what I can pay. I hope the vendors can keep the creeklines and slims for those of us who enjoy this as a hobby not a business. I would love to have some of the new style kits to add to my personal collection. They are out of reach for me.


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## Chasper (Jun 9, 2014)

The PSI style proliferation is all about pipeline filling.  Introduce a new style and 3-4 thousand pen makers will each buy a few to try it out.  Many will buy bushings and a drill bit as well.  4,000 pen makers X 5 pens each = a very healthy sales volume for a new product introduction, it doesn't matter if another production run is ever needed or if none of the turners ever order the kit again.  That is fundamental product line expansion theory and it appears to be working well for PSI.

I do not believe that any high volume pen sellers are using large quantities of the new crop of ornate PSI kits (I use kits, not component sets here, because these are gimmicky kits).  And I certainly do not agree that I'm selling pens to people who don't know a thing about pens, the customers I talk to range from reasonably well informed to expert.

Resin and alternative materials verses wood?  That is not especially new, but the trend is accelerating.  I believe the future of pen making as a hobby has just begun to see the influx of novelty pens.  

Pen making as a business?  It is going to get tougher, to survive will require a diversified addition of other products along with new selling approaches.  It will be a challenge to look fresh and exciting, but making pens from all the novelty kits is not the answer.


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## Smitty37 (Jun 9, 2014)

I was not really looking for a discussion of quality here - but I do know a little bit about manufacturing quality control having been associated with it for about 32 years.  Hence, I can tell you a few things.  

Manufacturing quality is conformance to specification - period.  Nothing else. 

Specifications can and do change for lots of reasons, none of them associated with deliberately trying to screw the buyer. 

If a vendor selling to the end user, like me or Ed or Roy or CSUSA is buying an item 'off the shelf' we will get it the way they are making it ''today'' which isn't necessarily the same as we got it the last time we ordered it.  

Neither we, nor the manufacturer are trying to screw the end user.


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## dbledsoe (Jun 9, 2014)

I'm kind of in Penman1's camp. If someone would build a component set I was not afraid to sell, I might try to get into the business. As it is, I give mine away, and I hold my breath for each one, wondering how long it is before it comes back with a problem. I just can't imagine selling hundreds of these things for real money, knowing they are not going to last. I know a lot of people do it successfully, but I can't figure out how.


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## Smitty37 (Jun 9, 2014)

dbledsoe said:


> I'm kind of in Penman1's camp. If someone would build a component set I was not afraid to sell, I might try to get into the business. As it is, I give mine away, and I hold my breath for each one, wondering how long it is before it comes back with a problem. I just can't imagine selling hundreds of these things for real money, knowing they are not going to last. I know a lot of people do it successfully, but I can't figure out how.


 I'm kind of at a loss here --- What do you think isn't going to last?


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## Carl Fisher (Jun 9, 2014)

This hobby is going wherever you as a pen turner/maker/artist or whatever you want to call your self is willing to take it.

The quality triangle comes into play here.  Speed/Cost/Quality. You can only pick 2.

If you want to view this from a pen sellers perspective, you can chose to go the PSI route and turn fast product out the door at the expense of quality control. Your costs are less and a large portion of the work is already done for you to the tune of them even sanding your tubes for you now.

Alternately you could also choose to go the route of buying from suppliers like Richard Greenwald, Indy~Pen~Dance, or The Classic Nib and integrating their offerings of clips, bands, nibs, sections, transmissions, etc... into your own designs.  But going this route takes time and your selling prices will go up accordingly and you're now selling to a different demographic and likely at a different quality of show.

For me, the PSI pen kit of the month club got old for me within my 2nd month of turning pens. I have settled on about a half dozen staple "kits" for my general lineup and use those to get my foot in the door and segway into higher end offerings.  I do buy kits to fill orders and I do buy kits to populate the show table, but they are a segway offering for me to fund the custom work until the custom work becomes self sustaining.

Now if you're doing this purely as a hobby, then I don't believe there is a right answer other than to do what you enjoy.


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## JohnU (Jun 9, 2014)

I get a catalog or email from just about every large supplier out there.  I usually spend some time looking through and trying to notice what's new or different.  On one hand...with PSI in mind...  Lately I haven't been that impressed with the new stuff out.  Maybe its because I'm drawn more to classics with less bling, giving more attention to the pen material rather than the clip or nib although I do believe that there are some out there that need to be classed up.  I understand the marketing strategy of trying to appeal to the interests of others but lately it just seems like they are giving a Polaris pen kit a face lift.  For now I'm eagerly awaiting to see something truly different that will work with a broad variety of material,  without getting overly pimped out. 

On the other hand, or the suppliers hand,  I get wanting a variety to offer.  There are more hobbiest pen makers out there than professionals making a living at it, so I bet they sell a lot of anything new, just because its new.


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## beck3906 (Jun 9, 2014)

Maybe I'm not the innovator.

But my question I ask myself.....
How many of any one variety can I sell before the market is lost?  
Ideally, my last sale depletes my inventory and I know when not to order more.

I didn't get in on the bolt action when they came out and definitely lost sales.


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## ed4copies (Jun 9, 2014)

beck3906 said:


> Maybe I'm not the innovator.
> 
> But my question I ask myself.....
> How many of any one variety can I sell before the market is lost?
> ...


 
Hey Rick,
You are unlikely to sell as many of any one style as Mont Blanc, Schaefer or even Parker.  Yet they all sell the "same" style, year in and year out.  

Should you add the gimmicks?  Why not?  But, plan to change to the next gimmick---we rode the circuit board and early 30 cal--made hundreds of sales.  I wouldn't be putting a lot of them out now.  Meanwhile, I'd still be selling the triton (having replaced the jr. gent series when they stopped being predictable).

I suspect that nearly every successful "hand made pen seller" has sold a large number of juniors, barons, sedonas, atrax, tritons or some other very similar body.

FWIW,
Ed


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