# A $250,000.00 pen



## Monty (Oct 26, 2006)

Ever wondered what a $250K pen looks like? Check out the cover and page 84 in the November issue of Pen World.


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## Ligget (Oct 26, 2006)

You tease!!  I dont get that magazine![]


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## Monty (Oct 26, 2006)

Don't know if I could post a picture or not since it's in the magazine.


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## jthompson1995 (Oct 26, 2006)

Go to the website penworld.com.  there's a PDF of the atricle on the front page (the stratosphere one).


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## TBone (Oct 26, 2006)

> _Originally posted by ligget_
> <br />You tease!!  I dont get that magazine![]



You can view online.  You can see as html or pdf, but the html is only one small pic.  The pdf has several.  Here is a link to the pdf

http://www.penworld.com/images/p84-89.pdf


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## Rob (Oct 26, 2006)

Looks just like the Jr Gent I made last week [}]  I think I screwed up only charging $75.00 for it...

Jest aside, that is some remarkable work...belongs in a glass case in a museum.


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## fritzmccorkle (Oct 26, 2006)

that's a nice pen.  i actually have several pens in stock right now ready to ship in the .5 to 1.2 million price range.  i'd post pics but i would require the submission of financials to screen out any looky loos. i have to protect my designs you know.


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## Monty (Oct 26, 2006)

> _Originally posted by TBone_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the liks. Didn't think to look.


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## rpasto92 (Oct 26, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Monty_
> <br />Ever wondered what a $250K pen looks like? Check out the cover and page 84 in the November issue of Pen World.



Yes, I have also wondered what the Tooth Fairy and Big Foot look like too but considering none of the above exist I'll just keep wondering.  You will have a very hard time convincing me that any pen ever made is worth $250K.


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## angboy (Oct 26, 2006)

> _Originally posted by rpasto92_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...


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## btboone (Oct 26, 2006)

It's only a $250,000 pen if they actually sell it for $250,000 otherwise it's a nicely crafted cover page pen.


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## alamocdc (Oct 26, 2006)

Bruce, I don't think it holds a candle to your Spira! Maybe you aren't asking enough... but don't raise the price until I buy one... when I can afford it. []


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## airrat (Oct 26, 2006)

reguardless of the price,  I think the work is nice.  I have always been a fan of Jade.


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## ctEaglesc (Oct 26, 2006)

> _Originally posted by btboone_
> <br />It's only a $250,000 pen if they actually sell it for $250,000 otherwise it's a nicely crafted cover page pen.


A total of ten were made, only two remain unsold.
I guess it isn't done on a CNC machine.
It sure beats a lasered engraving.


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## btboone (Oct 26, 2006)

Yeah.  Cnc machines and lasers are for untalented hacks.


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## dfurlano (Oct 26, 2006)

*fumes*


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## Dario (Oct 26, 2006)

I won't even take it if they give it to me FREE...IF there is a provision that I have to use it [][}]

Really, that looks nice and all but will give the user a lot of calusses.[B)]


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## ctEaglesc (Oct 26, 2006)

> _Originally posted by btboone_
> <br />Yeah.  Cnc machines and lasers are for untalented hacks.


I didn't say that but if you clicked on the link earlier in the thread you would get an idea of why it cost so much.

They did not resort to computerized mass production.


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## btboone (Oct 26, 2006)

I got the magazine.  It looks like it was a lot of work.  A quarter million dollars for a pen is definitely for someone with more money thn sense, no matter how it was made.


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## JimGo (Oct 26, 2006)

> _Originally posted by btboone_
> <br />Yeah.  Cnc machines and lasers are for untalented hacks.



No, just people too lazy to do the work by hand.

Sorry Bruce, I couldn't resist! []  CNC's and lasers are great for production work, precision, and repeatability.  I certainly wish I had one or both.

The Loiminchay is a heck of a pen, and the time needed to make it with that level of precision certainly justifies the cost in my opinion, especially when you consider that it was done by hand.


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## ctEaglesc (Oct 26, 2006)

> _Originally posted by btboone_
> <br />I got the magazine.  It looks like it was a lot of work.  A quarter million dollars for a pen is definitely for someone with more money thn sense, no matter how it was made.


How much was the CNC machine?
You can do repetative work but the machine does not have the skill to do work like that and neither does the operator.
A word of note.
Theplates that print our currency are engraved by hand there are more than one and they are all alike.
That is Craftsmanship.


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## dfurlano (Oct 26, 2006)

Your naive if you think CNC is only a production tool. And the rest of your comments follow that same flawed logic, I see a lot of crap made by hand.


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## JimGo (Oct 26, 2006)

Dan,
Not sure if you were responding to Eagle or me.  I don't think CNC's are only for production work; they have a LOT of uses, especially for precision and repeatability as I said.  The time that goes into programming a CNC to make a pen probably far exceeds the time it takes most of us to just turn one by hand.  

And I agree, I've seen a LOT of crap made by hand, and that includes many of the pens I've made.  Then there's the table I made in wood shop in Jr. High (my previous attempt at woodworking), the circuit board I hand wired in college, and...  But you gotta admit, that pen is an amazing piece of craftsmanship, I don't care whether it was hand-carved, CNC'd, lasered, or spat out of the heavens.


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## gerryr (Oct 26, 2006)

My guess is that it was hand carved.  Jade carving is a high art form in China and the people who are truly good at it are much revered.


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## baldysm (Oct 26, 2006)

> Theplates that print our currency are engraved by hand there are more than one and they are all alike.
> That is Craftsmanship.




A someone who does engraving by hand, I can tell you the engraving on money plates is absolutely phenomenal. 

I work with a microscope as it is, and I don't know how they get such fine detail engraved.


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## btboone (Oct 26, 2006)

&gt;How much was the CNC machine?  It was a lot.  It also pays for itself every month and a half.  If the $250,000 pen could do that, I'd probably buy one of those then too.  Short of that, I would think that it's quite a lot to spend for a writing instrument, when pencils or Bics could serve that function.  If it's for an investment, and you could be reasonably assured that it would appreciate greatly, I say go for it.  Heck buy two.


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## chisel (Oct 26, 2006)

It's just my personal taste, but I find that pen to be quite unattractive. Great crafting, but the result is not appealing, IMO.


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## ctEaglesc (Oct 26, 2006)

My Bruce but we are a little testy.
It was your original post that had a "shirking" air to it qhewn you said



> "It's only a $250,000 pen if they actually sell it for $250,000 otherwise it's a nicely crafted cover page pen.


They have sold 8 out opf 10.
Now I don't care for Oriental design especially laser engraved plastic pens, I am not fond of jade though I appreciate natural materials and the beauty they hold.
I will never have enough money to buy a pen like this if I wanted.
I do admire the crafts person that made it.
Ther is a difference btween an artist and someone who turns the machine on even if he told the machine what to do.


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## chisel (Oct 26, 2006)

> _Originally posted by ctEaglesc_
> Ther is a difference btween an artist and someone who turns the machine on even if he told the machine what to do.



An artist is somewhat different than a craftsman. Craftsmen are usually defined as using manual tools. An artist has a much broader definition, that can include the design process. 

I see a great deal of artistry in what Bruce does. His CNC is simply a very sophisticated tool for implementing his designs.


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## btboone (Oct 26, 2006)

Yes, perhaps you've picked up on my getting testy with you constantly belittling CNC, lasers, and everything else I do.  I simply stated that it's a lot to pay for a pen.  Not a house, CNC machine, or large boat, but a pen.  I think few of us would argue the point.  It reminded me of the stuff you read in the Guiness Book of Records, like the World's Most Expensive Toothpick that's diamond and ruby encrusted.  It's only that expensive if someone agrees to pay that much.   I didn't read that they had sold 8 of the 10.  Frankly, the pen looks silly to me and I wasn't interested enough to read the article.  There is no denying that it took a lot of work to create them and that they are masters of their materials.  It doesn't mean that it couldn't be done by CNC or that stuff of that complexity isn't regularly done day in and day out by CNC machines.  I used to design very complex parts from plastic.  Nearly every piece of plastic such as the uniform keys you are typing on has a mold or at least an electrode for EDM that's machined by CNC.  I doubt that you would care to drive your car if the parts weren't made by CNC.  I think you way underestimate the artistry and design skills it takes to make real parts on CNC.  It's a bit more complex than sitting back and pressing buttons and getting perfect parts.  CNC is used wherever accuracy counts.  Molds for plastic parts routinely cost in the hundreds of thousands of dollars.  It better be right the first time.  CNC helps to do just that.  Computer controlled grinding machines can make telescope mirrors to within 1/100 a wavelength of light.

I think you might have the wrong idea on what it takes to create parts in the computer and program the stuff.  On my Flame pen, I spent hundreds and hundreds of hours working that out and writing code before ever making a part.  It took several iterations to get everything dialed in.  It's not a simple matter of sitting back and pressing the button.  I sure as hell could have made several of them by hand in the time it took to develop that.  Yes, I have the talent to be able to do it by hand, and no, I CHOOSE to make them with the machine.  That certainly doesn't make them better or worse than handmade items, but at least they are repeatable and could be produced again if the market demands them.


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## Ausdan (Oct 26, 2006)

8 pens sold - 2 left hey??? I wonder if they're open to a bulk discount on the two remaining?[][]


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## ctEaglesc (Oct 26, 2006)

What ever you say Bruce.


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## cozee (Oct 26, 2006)

A CNC machine, no matter what it is, is a tool, just like a lathe and a skew. Granted, technology takes away a large part of the hands on but it does require more ingenuity and planning!! And then, how much of our hands on is far less than the effort one had to put into turning prior to electric lathes and hi-tech materials in our turning tools?

I applaud many of the works of those controlling and programming CNC machines!![]


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## Ron Mc (Oct 26, 2006)

Chisel,
I very rarely make a disagree known. But I want you to think about this quote, "Craftsmen are usually defined as using manual tools. An artist has a much broader definition, that can include the design process."
I have to design every segmented pen I make. I know several others, including btboone, and eagle, that do the same thing. I personally consider myself an artist and always will because from start to finish, I sit with music playing, draw a design, and work my cuts out for the blank.
I find nothing wrong with the term craftsmen yet the line between craftsman and artist can be thrown to the side in a moment.


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## Skye (Oct 26, 2006)

Just saw the PDF for the first time.

I'm not impressed. Now, I'm not saying _I_ could do it, but I've seen tons of Japanese and Chinese carvings that look about the same as that pen.

Heck, I'd pay more for one of those stone balls that's inside another ball, that's inside another ball, and there's a frog inside of that. Now, that's some carving skill! Last I remember, you could get those for like $50 at the beach!

I dunno. Guess it's like baseball cards. People pay a ton for them. To me, it's just a piece of paper. No value at all.

Now this is cool:


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## Skye (Oct 26, 2006)

Oh, and check this out: Ebay item # 150008168665

A <b>12</b> layer carved puzzle ball. Could be yours for $90 shipped.


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## rtjw (Oct 26, 2006)

You can find anything Skye. I compliment you on your pictures. You seem to be able to find the most interesting pictures![]


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## btboone (Oct 26, 2006)

I'm with you Skye, the pens do nothing for me, but those carved balls are cool.


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## chisel (Oct 26, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Ron Mc_
> <br />Chisel,
> I very rarely make a disagree known. But I want you to think about this quote, "Craftsmen are usually defined as using manual tools. An artist has a much broader definition, that can include the design process."
> I have to design every segmented pen I make. I know several others, including btboone, and eagle, that do the same thing. I personally consider myself an artist and always will because from start to finish, I sit with music playing, draw a design, and work my cuts out for the blank.
> I find nothing wrong with the term craftsmen yet the line between craftsman and artist can be thrown to the side in a moment.



Don't misunderstand me Ron. A craftsman can also be an artist as well.

I only drew the distinction because Eagle had stated:



> Ther is a difference btween an artist and someone who turns the machine on even if he told the machine what to do.



and



> How much was the CNC machine?
> You can do repetative work but the machine does not have the skill to do work like that and neither does the operator.
> A word of note.
> Theplates that print our currency are engraved by hand there are more than one and they are all alike.
> That is Craftsmanship.



While I may agree that much of what Bruce does might not be strictly considered craftsmanship, it is still an art form, and requires artistic abilities. I am not saying that other methods do not require artistic abilities. I hope that makes sense.


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## chisel (Oct 26, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Skye_



Those are awesome.


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## DocStram (Oct 26, 2006)

Chisel, et. al.  .... if you'll check out your local dictionary, or dictionary.com, you will read that a craftsman is an artist. Thus, "craftsman" and "artist" are synonymns.  

Actually, people like Ron Mc, eagle and those IAP members on the cutting edge are Master Craftsmen.  I like to think of them as "artisans".  As for Bruce, with the advent of technology, I think of him as falling within the ever expanding realm of artisans that integrate technology within their designs. 

Frankly, it's all a question of semantics.  Oh yeah, as for penturners like me ... I know my station in life ... I'm a journeyman ... or an apprentice, at best.


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## DocStram (Oct 26, 2006)

Sorry chisel,  our posts were hurtling thru cyberspace at the same time. We concur .... artists are craftsman.


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## chitswood (Oct 26, 2006)

If I could make pens that sold for a quarter of a million dollars, I don't think I would care how they are being made...[]

Btboone, are you saying you can make another one of those flame pens, even one for me?


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## chisel (Oct 26, 2006)

> _Originally posted by DocStram_
> <br />Chisel, et. al.  .... if you'll check out your local dictionary, or dictionary.com, you will read that a craftsman is an artist. Thus, "craftsman" and "artist" are synonymns.
> 
> Actually, people like Ron Mc, eagle and those IAP members on the cutting edge are Master Craftsmen.  I like to think of them as "artisans".  As for Bruce, with the advent of technology, I think of him as falling within the ever expanding realm of artisans that integrate technology within their designs.
> ...



<b>My local dictionary was similar to a few other definitions I found through Google...</b>

_craftsÂ·man [krÃ¡ftsm#601;n]
(plural craftsÂ·men [krÃ¡ftsm#601;n]) 
n 
1.  somebody who makes things by hand: somebody who makes decorative or practical objects skillfully by hand  
2.  skillful person: somebody who does something with great skill and expertise  

_

<b>And</b>

_artÂ·ist   

artÂ·ist [#63471;rtist]
(plural artÂ·ists) 
n 
1.  creator of art: somebody who creates art, especially paintings, drawings, or sculptures  
2.  skilled person: somebody who does something with great skill and creativity 
an artist with a basketball 

3.  performer: a member of the performing arts 
a well-known recording artist 

4.  cunning person: somebody who is very good at doing something, especially something involving cunning or deceit (slang) 
a ripoff artist 



[Late 16th century. Via French artiste from Italian artista , from arte â€œartâ€ (see art1).]_





<b>I do agree that this is a matter of splitting hairs though.  </b>


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## btboone (Oct 26, 2006)

&gt;Btboone, are you saying you can make another one of those flame pens, even one for me?

Yup.  Even a left hand version in the new Blue Hawaii acrylic I found.


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## cozee (Oct 26, 2006)

> _Originally posted by btboone_
> <br />&gt;Btboone, are you saying you can make another one of those flame pens, even one for me?
> 
> Yup.  Even a left hand version in the new Blue Hawaii acrylic I found.



Alright!! Power to south paws!!!

I do have to laugh though. Back some 25 years ago when I first started airbrushing, most "artists" I knew looked down on my airbrush. It wasn't considered art, for the most part thanks to Playboy. However, over time and airbrush artists who kept to thier art, today it is fully recognized as art and the airbrush itselff as mush as an extension of the artist as a painter's brush. Hang in there Boone! After time, what you do will be welcomed as art!!


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## Ron Mc (Oct 26, 2006)

Chisel,
Yep....It makes sense.[]


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## alamocdc (Oct 26, 2006)

Tell me about it, Greg! And they get top dollar too. The airbrush work I want on my Harley will cost me about 5 times more than just getting a nice looking three tome fade.


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## btboone (Oct 26, 2006)

&gt;Hang in there Boone! After time, what you do will be welcomed as art!!

As in the Museum of Modern Art?
http://www.moma.org/exhibitions/1995/mutantmaterials/metals.html


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## mrplace (Oct 27, 2006)

Think he could get in the guild with that?[][][]


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## johncrane (Oct 27, 2006)

Money means jack too some people. But if you could sell a pen for $250.000 you sure would have the last laugh all the way to the bank.[]


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## cozee (Oct 27, 2006)

Nice display of _industrial_ art!!


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## Skye (Oct 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by johncrane_
> <br />Money means jack too some people. But if you could sell a pen for $250.000 you sure would have the last laugh all the way to the bank.[]



Yeah, if I could grab a granite rock out of my driveway, sell it to some sucker for a quarter mill, I'd do it in a heartbeat. That doesnâ€™t, however, mean there was anything special about my rock. It doesnâ€™t mean I'm a pro at picking out rocks. It doesnâ€™t mean everyone around me should respect my rock. It doesnâ€™t necessarily mean anything about me <b>_or_</b> the rock. It may just mean that someone wants everyone to know they have money falling out of their orifices and they can blow that kind of money.


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## jeff (Oct 27, 2006)

This topic clearly illustrates why the Critiques Forum is not coming back.


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## btboone (Oct 27, 2006)

Skye, I'll give you $1.50 if it's a nice rock.


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## DocStram (Oct 27, 2006)

I don't know about you, but selling a pen for $250,000 isn't exactly one my aspirations in life .... nor is getting into "the" guild.


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## DocStram (Oct 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by jeff_
> <br />This topic clearly illustrates why the Critiques Forum is not coming back.



Jeff, I'm not trying to be a smart-a** but I'm not certain I understand what you mean by the Critiques Forum not coming back.


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## JimGo (Oct 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by DocStram_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...


Scroll down to the bottom of the forums list, and you'll see that there are two "closed" forums, one for a charity auction, and one for critiques.

BTW, I laughed pretty hard when I read your comment Jeff!


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## jeff (Oct 27, 2006)

That forum was supposed to be out of public view. It is now.

Al, regarding your question... this topic clearly illustrates the fact that nobody agrees on any issues of art and craftsmanship, and the process of disagreeing gets nasty. 

I was just a few clicks away from creating a new forum called "The Penturners Laboratory" where critiques would be encouraged, but it would be the same old thing as the old critiques forum. Two people would offer different opinions, then the arguing starts, the peanut gallery chimes in, and it all goes to hell. It's typical of the faceless, nameless, impersonal nature of the internet, which encourages much worse behavior and much more disrespect than would ever happen in person.


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## rtjw (Oct 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by jeff_
> <br />This topic clearly illustrates why the Critiques Forum is not coming back.



Now thats funny, I dont care who you are.

Of course, it is the only time I have seen eagle give up on an argument!


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## baldysm (Oct 27, 2006)

> It's typical of the faceless, nameless, impersonal nature of the internet, which encourages much worse behavior and much more disrespect than would ever happen in person.


Jeff obviously is busy with the IAP forum and has missed both the political advertising and the face to face debates concerned the upcoming elections.


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## JimGo (Oct 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by jeff_
> <br />That forum was supposed to be out of public view. It is now.



Darn...me and my big mouth (or is it fingers?)!


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## Skye (Oct 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by jeff_
> I was just a few clicks away from creating a new forum called "The Penturners Laboratory" where critiques would be encouraged, but it would be the same old thing as the old critiques forum. Two people would offer different opinions, then the arguing starts, the peanut gallery chimes in, and it all goes to hell.



The good thing about that is that you can say something other than an 'attaboy' without someone getting their feeling hurt. I think everyone gets tired of the one line, took 3 seconds to type "Nice pen." replies. Also, the old 'If you donâ€™t have anything good to say..." line isnt productive. If you've got sanding lines, bad fit, you should be told. You wont improve if everyone gushes over your bad pen. Just my skewed thoughts on it.



> It's typical of the faceless, nameless, impersonal nature of the internet, which encourages much worse behavior and much more disrespect than would ever happen in person.



I agree a billionity percent. One small red herring though would be old buzzard here. This is an actual conversation regarding bullet casing pens. No newbs were hurt in this discussion. All rights reserved.

Me: I think Iâ€™m going to â€¦ _long rant_â€¦., is that the way you would do it?
Eagle: No.
Me: Why not?
Eagle: Because that's the way an a**h**e would do it.
Me: Ah.

Baahhaahahaaa!


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## alamocdc (Oct 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by baldysm_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...



Scott, I didn't know you lived in Ohio. There's been more mud slinging going on than I've seen at some very entertaining mud wrestling... oops, I almost forgot... this is a family site.[}][]


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## dfurlano (Oct 27, 2006)

All in all I would say this was very tame.  

Critiquing someones work is a lot different what was discussed here.  If you make the forum make some rules; ie nothing can be personal or about topics not directly related to what is being critiqued.  

I would volunteer to moderate the forum and heard the cats.


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## dfurlano (Oct 27, 2006)

This site has a great process for critiquing.

http://www.jasonsantamaria.com/archive/2006/02/02/utl_2_critiquing.php


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## jeff (Oct 27, 2006)

We had rules. The quote below was posted as guidelines for the critiques forum.

It wasn't so much that there were arguments about what was being critiqued or disrespect between the maker and the reviewer. It was one "critiquer" arguing with another about what could or could not be seen in photos, or whether one had enough experience to offer a particular opinion. As the link to that other site points out, it's all subjective and a number of us have a very difficult time letting others have their opinions without challenge. Some of us just feel the right, or as I've been told "the duty" to flame on endlessly about things until our collective brains have melted into mush.

Unless we're ready to eject people for posting "I like it!" in a critiques forum where that's not welcome, or for griping about someone's photography skills because they can't see how metal mates to wood, there is no point in encouraging critiques.



> <b>General:</b>
> 
> The intent of this forum is to provide a place for members who desire serious, constructive critique of their work. This is not the place to get a bunch of â€œnice pen!â€ and â€œwow, great job!â€ posts. If you just want to show off your work without critique (and there is nothing wrong with that!), visit the Show Off Your Pens forum. (See note below about posting in both forums.)
> 
> ...


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## alamocdc (Oct 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by jeff_
> <br />Unless we're ready to eject people for posting "I like it!" in a critiques forum where that's not welcome, or for griping about someone's photography skills because they can't see how metal mates to wood, there is no point in encouraging critiques.



Agreed. I entered one pen in to the Critiques forum and withdrew it the same day. I was basically told my photography wasn't good enough for the pen to be properly critiqued so I removed it and never attempted it again. I didn't get all PO'd about it either. I just figured it was a waste of my time and effort and I have better things to do.


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## JimGo (Oct 27, 2006)

I actually liked the critiques forum, even though it did often end up in certain members sniping at others.  I felt that I got some good feedback from it.  Thankfully, I have DCBluesman, MDWine, Draken, and others to chat up in person.


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## dfurlano (Oct 27, 2006)

You wouldn't want to eject people but you should eject posts.  

It wouldn't be a big deal if you didn't have the forum but then again it would be very unique if you did and it worked.  The number one rule is that you can't challange someone else critique, you can offer your own about the subject but not about an individual.


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## DCBluesman (Oct 27, 2006)

The critiques forum did not die due to flaming.  Flaming goes on in the Casual Conversation area quite frequently.  It died because it was not properly moderated.  I don't really care whether or not we have a new forum, but I don't want anyone hiding behind the fact that certain wars are allowed to flame on ad infinitum and others are heavy-handedly squelched.  As for the other forum, who gives a rat's rump what they do over there?


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## DocStram (Oct 27, 2006)

I read over the Rules for Critiques very carefully.  They seem to be well thought out and clear to understand. Here's a crazy idea .... but think about it .....  maybe we could have an objective moderator who is NOT and who has NOT been a member of IAP .... a person who doesn't even turn pens. Somebody who is an impartial observor who doesn't give a rat's a** about who the power people are in IAP or who has history of flamethrowing. Then, that person could objectively monitor the posts and pitch out any that do not follow the guidelines. I reckon I'm trying to find someway of salvaging the idea of a critiue forum.


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## JimGo (Oct 27, 2006)

Al, that will never work.  You've seen how addictive pen turning is!  The minute we introduce the non-turner to the topic and they see all the creative and technically accurate pens that can be made with "just a few hand tools" (not to re-kindle the earlier aspects of this thread), you KNOW they're gonna want to give it a try! []


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## gerryr (Oct 27, 2006)

What about someone who was a pen turner, but can't anymore?


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## jeff (Oct 27, 2006)

Moderation has little to do with whether or not someone is involved in the activity they're moderating. If anything, a penturner would better understand the relevance of some comments. Personality is the key. 

It seems like a lot of you would like to have a critiques forum. I'm going to open up a new topic for discussing this. Let's see how long it takes to have an argument in that topic []


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## Skye (Oct 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by gerryr_
> <br />What about someone who was a pen turner, but can't anymore?



Nah, I think if it's going to be someone with experience, it needs to be current experience.

The idea isnt the person's skill level, it's the simple ability to know a critique from a personal attack, advice from an insult, and someone taking advice from someone getting their panties in a wad.


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## chitswood (Oct 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by JimGo_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...


[][}]

Geez, NOW I wish I could see it.


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## mrplace (Oct 31, 2006)

Wonder why his pen is worth $250k and these aren't?

http://www.airlineintl.com/loiminchay/loiminchay_forbidden-jade.htm


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## GreggR (Oct 31, 2006)

Why Mr. Boone! Didn't I see a Mazak Quick-Turn behind you??! [] See, that's why I have a Haas VF-3 in my garage, cuz' I ain't got no skills either... LMAO


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## Skye (Nov 1, 2006)

> _Originally posted by mrplace_
> <br />Wonder why his pen is worth $250k and these aren't?
> 
> http://www.airlineintl.com/loiminchay/loiminchay_forbidden-jade.htm



Simple; He's not asking $250K for them.

This whole thing reminds me of an church auction I was at. There was a painting, just a normal painting, nothing great. Bidding started at $25......$25.... do I hear $30?..... $30...... etc, etc. Sloooow to start, but then these two guys got into it. Back and forth, back and forth, the damn thing sold for <b>$3,000!</b>  Now, does that mean the painting is worth $3,000? Absolutly not. The only thing that means is someone can say they paid $3,000 for it, and to some, that bragging right is worth paying for.


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## btboone (Nov 1, 2006)

Why yes it is.  If I could have powered it from the house, I would have gotten the live tooled Mazak Nexus Quick Turn MS-Y or 5th axis Integrex.  That would have added a whole new set of capabilities, allowing me to be yet lazier and less creative.  

Mrplace, that's exactly what I thought when I first saw them.  I think they are usually something like $10,000 or $20,000.  I guess the grade of material might have something to do with it, or perhaps the ones you showed are more mass produced with assistance by machines.  Maybe it the fact that there are more dragons per square inch. []  They also create value by limiting the number to so few.  I think the ultimate reason is because they can.


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## Rojo22 (Nov 2, 2006)

I am an avid carver as well as turner, and appreciate the work that went into this pen.  The difference between the pens in question are that one is much more deeply releived, almost to the point of a pierced carving style (the $250,000 pen), the carvings on the less expensive pen, are much shallower and less detailed.  I have never worked on jade, but the skill involved to create such an object must have taken many hours, and a very deep knowledge of the medium.

The article states that the "pen" is an object of art, and I believe that the price tag reflects the art object, not the usefulness of the object as a pen.

I would be willing to bet that an electronic tool was used to create the pen.  Dental drills and Foredoms have been used to create works like this, and I would expect that they were used in making this pen as well.  Because a tool was used makes it no less beautiful to look at, or admire the art object.  A tool is a tool is a tool.....


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## Rojo22 (Nov 2, 2006)

I thought these were funny:

"there are two men inside the artist, the poet and the craftsman. One is born a poet. One becomes a craftsman..."
Emile Zola to CÃ©zanne, 16 April, 1860


I must be an artist rather than a craftsman, because my wife continues to tell me that I have no common sense.
Wesley C. Rolley

Any fool can paint a picture, but it takes a wise man to be able to sell it. 
- Samuel Butler 


Art is a collaboration between God and the artist, and the less the artist does the better. 
- AndrÃ© Gide


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