# Should We Clone A Neanderthal??



## Randy_ (Nov 25, 2008)

I saw a piece on MSNBC tonight to the effect that cloning our ancestor.....the Neanderthal man.....is now a technical possibility.  I forgot to grab the link to the article,
 
There have been many discussions recently about the ethics of cloning humans and the opinions are mixed.  (I'm not sure how I feel about the possibility; but suspect that, right or wrong, someone is going to do it just because they can.)
 
The question for this poll, however, is would you be for or against cloning a Neanderthal?


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## leehljp (Nov 25, 2008)

I think we are going backwards fast enough without help from our ancestors ! :biggrin:

On the other hand if they do, starting over with a fresh infusion into the gene pool might be advantageous. :biggrin:


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## wdcav1952 (Nov 25, 2008)

Why, we already have Ed!!!!!!! :tongue::biggrin:


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## LEAP (Nov 25, 2008)

They must be looking to make a new Geico commercial


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## Skye (Nov 25, 2008)

My problem is that they'll be creating a life that will do nothing but live as an experiment. I expect it's brain would be underdeveloped so it would have a lower intelligence, would never find a mate which is a primary urge for any man or animal, and it would live it's live being poked and prodded, ex rayed and then people would be just waiting for it to die so they could cut it up and examine it.

Just seems like a horrible existence to me.


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## pipecrafter (Nov 25, 2008)

I agree with Skye, the only purpose for cloning a Neanderthal would be scientific experimentation.  You can't do that to an intelligent, self aware, and sentient being.  

Not that I don't think it's interesting that they think they can.  Neanderthals were actually supposed to be highly intelligent, and nowhere near as simple as most people imagine.


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## sbell111 (Nov 25, 2008)

Skye said:


> My problem is that they'll be creating a life that will do nothing but live as an experiment. I expect it's brain would be underdeveloped so it would have a lower intelligence, would never find a mate which is a primary urge for any man or animal, and it would live it's live being poked and prodded, ex rayed and then people would be just waiting for it to die so they could cut it up and examine it.
> 
> Just seems like a horrible existence to me.



I agree with Skye.  We should DEFINITELY clone a neanderthal.


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## alphageek (Nov 25, 2008)

wdcav1952 said:


> Why, we already have Ed!!!!!!! :tongue::biggrin:


Wow... I was wondering who would make that kind of crack first as soon as I saw the title of the thread.


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## randyrls (Nov 25, 2008)

Ed;  I want you to know that I appreciate the posts you make.  You try to help and You helped me when I needed it.

Thanks.....    Randy.

Have a Happy Thanksgiving everybody!


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## Chasper (Nov 25, 2008)

I'm a yes vote, not that I know of a good reason that we should clone Neanderthals, wolly mammoths, dodo birds or any other extinct species; but when technology becomes available it should be tested and used.  Each new technology spawns future generations of additional new technologies and we are a technology dependant species.

What is next?  Do we allow foolish and wealthy pet lovers to clone their dear little dog?  Its their money, let them blow it any way they want.

Do we clone Winston Churchill and FDR to come back as voices of comfort in troubled times?  That begs thinking through untold numbers of new questions.

How about we allow a deep pockets casino to clone a young Oscar Robertson and a young Michael Jordan so they can play a few games of made-for-betting one-on-one to see who was the best basketball player ever?

The applications of cloning are ethically frightening, physically mind-boggling and unimagable all at once, but the technology has already been unleashed.  If we don't explore ways to use the technology for good it will be used for evil, or at least frivilous purposes.


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## Skye (Nov 25, 2008)

Chasper said:


> we are a technology dependant species.



Well, we're only as dependent on it as we allow ourselves to be. We're no more reliant on technology as a _species_ than we were 2000 years ago. If suddenly we lost all electrical production instantaneously for ever, we would be thrown into turmoil, there would be an age of normalization, but we'd still continue to thrive as a species. Being able to eat, drink, reproduce is all we need. The rest (technology) is just icing on the cake.

We've populated the earth without significant technology, it's just a matter of creature comforts and pushing the envelope in life expectancy with current technology.


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## maxwell_smart007 (Nov 25, 2008)

Cloning Winston Churchill....one wouldn't know if it was successful until his third birthday! (Because all babies look like Winston! :wink 

But I don't think cloning a competing species is necessarily a good idea: the Neanderthal has a larger brain capacity than homo sapiens, and a larger, more robust build...

However, I'm of the opinion, based on a study of some of the ugly mugs and protruding foreheads of some of my junior high classmates, that Neanderthal and Homo Sapiens cohabitated and interbred...

Cloning for the sake of cloning is just providing tenure and using tax dollars for no good reason.  There is nothing much to be learned from a Neanderthal that cannot be studied from their bone structure; at least not enough to make cloning worthwhile in my mind...


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## Mudder (Nov 25, 2008)

wdcav1952 said:


> Why, we already have Ed!!!!!!! :tongue::biggrin:


 

And Lou!


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## jkeithrussell (Nov 25, 2008)

pipecrafter said:


> I agree with Skye, the only purpose for cloning a Neanderthal would be scientific experimentation. You can't do that to an intelligent, self aware, and sentient being.
> 
> Not that I don't think it's interesting that they think they can. Neanderthals were actually supposed to be highly intelligent, and nowhere near as simple as most people imagine.


 
Not trying to be contrary, but how do we know that they were intelligent, self aware, and sentient?  Remember, this species branched off another direction in the supposed (academically accepted) version of human evolution.  I don't see how we could know much of anything about what was going on inside their heads.   

I'm against cloning in this instance, but I like to argue.


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## pipecrafter (Nov 25, 2008)

I think that would evolve into an argument of pure academics.  However, people who have done more research on this than me have made those assertions, and I respect their experience and views, and it makes sense to me, so I'm going along with it.


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## Skye (Nov 25, 2008)

jkeithrussell said:


> Not trying to be contrary, but how do we know that they were intelligent, self aware, and sentient?



They did make hand tools.


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## jkeithrussell (Nov 25, 2008)

Skye said:


> They did make hand tools.


 
Well, if they were penturners, then I'm convinced.  But not otherwise.


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## jkeithrussell (Nov 25, 2008)

pipecrafter said:


> I think that would evolve into an argument of pure academics. However, people who have done more research on this than me have made those assertions, and I respect their experience and views, and it makes sense to me, so I'm going along with it.


 
Just checked out your website -- very cool pipes.


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## maxwell_smart007 (Nov 25, 2008)

jkeithrussell said:


> Not trying to be contrary, but how do we know that they were intelligent, self aware, and sentient?  Remember, this species branched off another direction in the supposed (academically accepted) version of human evolution.  I don't see how we could know much of anything about what was going on inside their heads.
> 
> I'm against cloning in this instance, but I like to argue.



From the Journal of Human Evolution: 



> Paleontologists from the University of Exeter, Southern Methodist University, Texas State University and the Think Computer Corporation, have shown that early stone tool technologies developed by our ancestors were no more efficient than those used by Neanderthals.



Also, while brain size alone is not an indication of the strength or number of synapses, the fact that Neanderthals were genetically similar to humans, and had brains larger than homo sapiens, tends to imply that they were at least potentially smarter than homo sapiens from the same time period.


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## pipecrafter (Nov 25, 2008)

jkeithrussell said:


> Just checked out your website -- very cool pipes.



Thanks!


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## tbroye (Nov 25, 2008)

LOML voted yes.  She thinks I need a playmate.


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## cozee (Nov 26, 2008)

I'd vote for one if he was running for office!!!:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:


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## babyblues (Nov 26, 2008)

Wow, I think some of us have been watching too many movies.

I would think that if it were actually possible, it would prove or disprove any current theories about Neanderthals and be an invaluable tool in understanding our early history.  They would sure be the most popular person on the planet.


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## wdcav1952 (Nov 26, 2008)

Anyone watch the movie Jurassic Park?


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## alphageek (Nov 26, 2008)

wdcav1952 said:


> Anyone watch the movie Jurassic Park?


 
Yes... And to stay on topic - Jurassic Park was a good movie on this topic... A movie that leads a bit closer to the topic, but NOT a good movie is The 6th Day.


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## kruzzer (Nov 26, 2008)

Interesting you mention Jurassic Park ... I've often thought about that if you had the knowledge and the ability to re-create lets say the T-Rex would you do it?  moral or not..??? The thought that these creatures acutally existed just fasinates the hell out of me and again if you could would you???  
Re-creating a human??? nah!!! I know that world wouldn't want anymore of me...


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## tim self (Nov 28, 2008)

If we're using the logic of "Just because we can", I do not agree with cloning.  If there is some scientific justification, immunity to certain diseases, proven not assumed greater intelligence, moral justification and such then by all means do it.  But the thought in my mind is, there must be a reason they are extinct.  And that reason may be genetic dificiencies or subpar intelligence by todays standard.  That answer will not be know until it has been done and at what cost to our society.

On the other hand, with the state of our economy, people starving in our own neighborhoods, etc. couldn't that money and technology  be used in a more efficient manner?


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## jkeithrussell (Nov 28, 2008)

tim self said:


> On the other hand, with the state of our economy, people starving in our own neighborhoods, etc. couldn't that money and technology be used in a more efficient manner?


 
People are starving in your neighborhood in Oklahoma?


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## bitshird (Nov 28, 2008)

I think cloning any thing is a bad Idea, Great scientific advance certainly, but look at the results of Dolly the sheep, it's life span was not near the normal for sheep, and had many health issues. It was a starting point of course, but I think it also should have been a stopping point. Besides, if any one wants a Neanderthal, or see what they look like or observe how they mate, just drive through the back roads of Mc Nairy county Tennessee.


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## wdcav1952 (Nov 28, 2008)

bitshird said:


> I think cloning any thing is a bad Idea, Great scientific advance certainly, but look at the results of Dolly the sheep, it's life span was not near the normal for sheep, and had many health issues. It was a starting point of course, but I think it also should have been a stopping point. Besides, if any one wants a Neanderthal, or see what they look like or observe how they mate, just drive through the back roads of Mc Nairy county Tennessee.



And your address is??????:biggrin:


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## TellicoTurning (Nov 29, 2008)

bitshird said:


> I think cloning any thing is a bad Idea, Great scientific advance certainly, but look at the results of Dolly the sheep, it's life span was not near the normal for sheep, and had many health issues. It was a starting point of course, but I think it also should have been a stopping point. Besides, if any one wants a Neanderthal, or see what they look like or observe how they mate, just drive through the back roads of Mc Nairy county Tennessee.



If you hear banjo music, drive faster.


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## Rarest wood (Dec 15, 2008)

your never alone with  clone:biggrin:


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## gmcnut (Dec 22, 2008)

Leave it all to the Almighty!


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## Skye (Dec 23, 2008)

gmcnut said:


> Leave it all to the Almighty!




Well, technically, some people think scientific achievement is only accomplished with God's will, so....

It's a squiggly wiggly bucket of worms...


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