# Start up cost !



## Hillbilly (Feb 14, 2009)

Here is my list. I hope I have everything ordered that I will need to make Beeuutiful Pens.

Table saw...( I already had this )
Shop Fox Lathe...................................170.00
Drill Press.............................................70.00
8 piece chisel set..................................24.98
#1 morse maxi mandrel...........................24.95
Barrel trimmer.......................................16.95
Digital caliper........................................14.95
PSI pen makers CA glue............................8.95
PSI Insta Cure thin CA..............................7.30
Sand Paper 5 roll box..............................22.95
Micro Mesh Pads 9 pack combo.................22.95
20 cocobolo pen blanks...........................18.50
2  24kt plated slimline pen kits....................5.50
2  24kt plated slimline pencil kits.................7.90 
10 pack of spare 7mm tubes.......................2.50

I got the pen blanks from ebay the guy is probably a member on here. I want to learn how to do the ca finish as soon as I get started, I think that is a must.
I will enter my very first pen in one of the contest, if I get my equipment in time.
Do I need anything else?  

Thanks, Brian


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## rjwolfe3 (Feb 14, 2009)

TIME - you must have lots and lots of this
and maybe a little patience too.


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## Dario (Feb 14, 2009)

glue for tubes (CA will work),
bushing,
face shield,
dust mask,
drill bit,
means to press the pen together (you can use many things for this)


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## OldWrangler (Feb 15, 2009)

Hillbilly said:


> Shop Fox Lathe...................................170.00  may want to consider a better lathe
> Drill Press.............................................70.00
> 8 piece chisel set..................................24.98  Only need 3-4-better to buy singly
> #1 morse maxi mandrel...........................24.95
> ...



This is only my opinion, I am no expert but have made over 500 pens this year so I have some experience. When you get set up and are firmly hooked on turning, pm me your address and I'll send you a bunch of interesting blanks.   George


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## Art Fuldodger (Feb 15, 2009)

Which chisel set are you buying?  My guess would be that they're not HSS, but regular carbon steel.  You don't want to go down that route.

One of the biggest hurdles for beginners is sharpening their tools - and with carbon steel tools, you'll have to sharpen them even more than with HSS.  You want to keep your tools sharp, turning with dull tools not only makes for more sanding, it also increases your chances of catches, and makes your work more frustrating and difficult.  Learn to sharpen well, and do it early on.

If you don't already have a grinder, put one on your list to sharpen your tools with.


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## TellicoTurning (Feb 15, 2009)

Brian,
Suggest you start by using the spare tubes for practice.. and if you have other woods besides the cocobolo, start with that and save the cocobolo until you're a little more confident... If you ever get over into eastern TN, stick you head in and say hello.  
Also, search member list.. I think we have several members in your area in case you want to get together with them and chew the fat or whatever..:biggrin:


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## livertrans (Feb 15, 2009)

I would go with a lathe that has a #2  morse taper, with a #1 you are limited in accessories. You will end up being sorry later on down the road.
All you need is a 3 piece chisel set, PSI has their 3 piece pen turning set that sells for about what you are planning on spending now.
Mico mesh pads are a better price at places such as woodenwhimzies.com
I'd forget about the 24k pencils. I've sold probally 2 in the last 2 years. 
When you make major purchases such as lathe, chisel set and drill press purchase from amazon, most of the time you end up with free shipping and pay no tax. Not to mention such as PSI's woodturning chisels are priced lower than on PSI's site.


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## Joe L (Feb 15, 2009)

I agree with Tony regarding Morse 2 taper lathe.  I bought a lathe that takes Morse #1.  (Enthusiasm vs research<sigh). Only took me a month to realize how limited it was.  Lathe works great... I've just out-grown it (less than 6 months).... Now I am looking at the JET-1014VSI....just looking at the moment<sigh><grin>
-joe L


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## bitshird (Feb 15, 2009)

Definitely get a lathe with a #2 Morse taper.


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## Dario (Feb 15, 2009)

Good comments about MT1 vs MT2 but too late unless he can cancel/return his purchase.  Fact is some ask here and still buy MT1 lathe because of budget restrictions.  

Regret always comes later.


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## spiritwoodturner (Feb 15, 2009)

I would agree with both Art and Chuck about good tools and the right material to start with.

Buy the most expensive tools you can afford, one at a time. You'll have them for years, instead of weeks. And a grinder is a must. Also, Cocobolo is one of the last woods I'd recommend starting with. Start with something like maple, curly, birdseye, something like that. It's more forgiving, and forgiveness is good when you are starting. You'll know what I mean very soon.

That said, have a blast, never be afraid to wreck something, try something new every day and read and ask questions. You are in for quite an adventure, if you want one.

Dale


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## John Eberly (Feb 15, 2009)

*A couple more ideas -*

Start with a 10 pack of kits and practice the same profile a few times.  Slimlines are inexpensive and challenging for a start.  You'll want a change soon enough, though.  I really love the cigar pen kit - it's big enough to show off grain, can take a curvy, voluptuous shape, and has a nice heft.  The twist action is much smoother than a slimline.

I didn't see bushings or drill bits on your list.  I'd suggest you start with the bushings corresponding to the kits for a while.  You may eventually want to turn to dimension using the calipers but that's a slow way to start out.

Speaking of drill bits, it's much less expensive to buy a set like the one Rockler has - 25 piece set, 1/8" to 1/2" in 1/64" increments - than it is to buy individual "pen turners bits".  The whole set costs under $30, individual bits will run you from $5 to $10.  You'll also likely have bits that will work for almost any pen you want to try.  Make sure you get brad point bits.

Wood wise, I suggest you look around where you live for interesting wood and make pens from what you find.  You'd be amazed at th products you can produce using burls and spalted pieces of local woods.  I've made probably a hundred pens in the last 6 months and I just purchased my first few "exotic" blanks.


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## dogcatcher (Feb 15, 2009)

Some good books on woodturning.  You will enjoy woodturning and penturning more if you learn the basics correctly.  

Taunton's Complete Illustrated Guide to Turning (Complete Illustrated Guide) (Hardcover) by Richard Raffan 

"A Foundation Course in Woodturning" by Keith Rowley


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## Rarest wood (Feb 15, 2009)

John Eberly said:


> Start with a 10 pack of kits and practice the same profile a few times.  Slimlines are inexpensive and challenging for a start.  You'll want a change soon enough, though.



I agree why waste money on the expensive pen kits when the slimlines will allow you to learn the craft and enable you to get a good CA technique etcetera.


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## Robert Taylor (Feb 15, 2009)

i agree that a lathe with a #1mt is not the way to go as is the $24.95 lathe tool set. also i doubt that a $70.00 drill press will have enough quill travel to drill your blanks.


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## Hillbilly (Feb 15, 2009)

Thanks, for the replys, I will practice on some scrap lumber that I can cut into blanks. Everything you seen on my list has already been ordered. The mandrel that I ordered came with 5 7mm bushings can I use those for turning the pens? I will be getting a bench grinder so I can keep my tools sharp.


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## Robert Taylor (Feb 15, 2009)

also you might want to check out russ fairfield's site. it has a ton of ideas on making different looking pens using a slimline kit.

http://www.woodturnerruss.com/Pens.html


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## Pen Maker (Feb 15, 2009)

Don't worry about the 1# vs 2# you'll be just fine with a 1# your not making bowls. Even if you were you'd be very limited on a little lathe and a 2#. If one jumps off a building don't mean you have to too!

The 5 spacers that came with your mandrel. Well those are just spacers. You need to order stepped bushings the smaller step inserts into your tube. The high side you you TURN your blank to that dimension to fit the kit your building. Everyone sells 7mm bushings and quite inexpensive.


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## JimB (Feb 15, 2009)

If you have never done any turning at all I would recommend just putting some scrap wood between centers and practice making a square piece of wood round. Don't even bother with tubes or pen blanks. You need to learn how to use the tools first.


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## Hillbilly (Feb 15, 2009)

I will order the slimline bushings Monday. I'm going to practice with some scrap wood. Say you think I should just turn between centers and not use the mandrel. Is it easy to damage or bend the mandrel. And your right I've never used a lathe and have only seen one in person.


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## Pen Maker (Feb 15, 2009)

If your want to turn between the centers, then you will not be using the mandrel but in order to do that. You need to order bushings from user: johnnycnc. His bushings have dimples to fit the centers in your head/tail stocks. He's great to work with.


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## JerryS (Feb 15, 2009)

You can get that 5 roll sandpaper box at HF for $9.95 .


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## Hillbilly (Feb 15, 2009)

JerryS said:


> You can get that 5 roll sandpaper box at HF for $9.95 .


 
 Jerry, What is "HF"

That is a huge savings, Thanks, Brian


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## Dario (Feb 15, 2009)

Try to avoid cheap sand paper...they cause more trouble than they are worth.


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## rjwolfe3 (Feb 15, 2009)

Actually the one from Harbor Freight is a 4 roll.  I have only seen the five roll from PSI.  I have both in the shop right now.  But the 600 grit is the one I use the most.  The five "bushings" that came with your mandrel are not just spacers but they are slimline bushings as well.  If you are turning with a mandrel they will work just fine.  I am pretty sure the ones you ordered, unless they came from Johnnycnc or Paul, will match the ones you all ready have for slimlines.  An inexpensive drill press will work fine for starting out.  I used an el cheapo from HF for about a year until I started drilling on the lathe and I could drill any blank on it including the Long Click.


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## dogcatcher (Feb 15, 2009)

Find the closet chapter of AAW http://www.woodturner.org/community/chapters/LocalChapters.asp

Attend a meeting and makes someone that can mentor you.  Woodturners as a whole bend over back wards to help beginners.  A couple of hours with someone that knows woodturning is worth it's weight in gold.   

Marvin


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## timberview4 (Feb 16, 2009)

Hillbilly said:


> I will order the slimline bushings Monday. I'm going to practice with some scrap wood. Say you think I should just turn between centers and not use the mandrel. Is it easy to damage or bend the mandrel. And your right I've never used a lathe and have only seen one in person.


 
The five bushings that come with the mandrel should be the size you need for the slimline kits.


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## Stick Rounder (Feb 16, 2009)

dogcatcher said:


> Find the closet chapter of AAW http://www.woodturner.org/community/chapters/LocalChapters.asp
> 
> Attend a meeting and makes someone that can mentor you. Woodturners as a whole bend over back wards to help beginners. A couple of hours with someone that knows woodturning is worth it's weight in gold.
> 
> Marvin


 
This is all great advice.  Mentoring is probably the best of all.  The only thing I would add, is that you consider some local turning classes.  One class goes a long way.  The other is to read.  Take for example CA finish.  There are YouTube videos, Web sites and articles in the library here, I attended a demo at my local pen turners chapter meeting.  In the end I came up with my own mixture of the combined knowledge for CA finish.  Practice and knowledge gained through research and mentorship are two things you need to add to your list.


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## OldWrangler (Feb 16, 2009)

Go to YouTube.com and look up Pen turning or wood turning and there are some very good videos that are very helpful. Also our own library has some very good instructional videos. Watch the process several times before starting. Watch the hand positions on the tools, the angle and depth of cuts and all the nuances of pen turning. The videos are a must before turning.


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## fyrcaptn (Feb 16, 2009)

*new to it all*

I think your best decision is that you came here and asked for advice. There is a wealth of knowledge on this site. A lot of these fine people are masters.
If you've never turned and only seen a lathe- watch some videos, read some books/articles,  find a 'mentor', and practice practice practice. There are tons of posts on here from those starting out. Many of your questions will be answered before you ask them by reading through some of them.
Knowledge is no substitute for experience, but its a start. Knowing what to do does not equate to being able to do it. Don't overexpect, and don't forget to enjoy what you're doing. Welcome and good luck~


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## larrystephens (Feb 16, 2009)

Best of luck to you in your new venture, it is really addictive


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## OldWrangler (Feb 16, 2009)

Just remember, your first pen will cost you about $1,000 but they get cheaper after that. My wife has figured I only need to make and sell about 400 more til I break even.

Great hobby but not for the poor!!


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## Pen Maker (Feb 16, 2009)

That's funny but true OldWrangler looking over the statement last month inflation has driven the cost up by 13 hundred though. My second pen should be reasonable though.


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## mywoodshopca (Feb 16, 2009)

Dario said:


> Try to avoid cheap sand paper...they cause more trouble than they are worth.


 
Even more expensive sandpaper is a pain at times.. I have some sheets I paid $2 each for and noticed some small black dots on a pen recently durig finishing.. seems the grit wanted to stay on the wood :frown:

I thought this only happened with the 10pack for $1. at dommar stores :biggrin:


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## Hillbilly (Feb 16, 2009)

I been lingering around here since October, reading, looking and trying to learn the lingo. I will look into the local chapter and see where and when the next meeting is. 

Hopfully my next post is a picture. Good or bad I'll still post it, ya'll may get a good laugh.

Thanks, Brian


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## OldWrangler (Feb 16, 2009)

It won't be any funnier than my first pen. Still got that ugly sucker right here in my desk drawer. I take it out to remember how much I have learned....much of it right here on the IAP. In fact, I wasn't gonna ever show it to anyone but if it will make another new penturner feel better about their first, here it is.  Maybe a candidate for the ugly pen contest.

If you can't be an example to others, at least serve as a warning! That is this pen, with it's over turned barrels, holes in the wood and lack of finish..... Now this is really a "BUTT-UGLY" pen.


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## DurocShark (Feb 17, 2009)

The importance of a class or mentor will show itself the first time you show good tool control. The difference between the gouging/stabbing/scraping you do before you learn good technique and seeing curly shavings come off the blank effortlessly are like night and day. 

Having a mentor/class will shortcut that milestone. It took me a lot of messing around before I figured that out on my own.


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## Tn-Steve (Feb 17, 2009)

6 weeks ago I had never turned a pen, didn't have a clue as to how to do it.  I took the plunge, took an afternoon class on pen turning at the local Woodcrafts shop, and I'm hooked.  

There is a HUGE amount of combined knowledge here, (Several centuries worth easily), and people are more than willing to share. Here's my tips.

Expect that some things just won't go according to plan.  

Even the things that don't work out can still be nice.

Practice is your friend.  Don't just grab the gouge and hack the blank down to size and shape it.  Use the fact that there is lots of wood to be removed to get the inner pen out of it, so use that extra wood to practice your skills.  I've turned 2 practice pens out of a blank before I got down to where I was doing it for 'keeps'

There are 9,999 ways to do anything.  What works for one may not work for you.  Best advice, try things as suggested, and you will build your own skills quickly.

One thing that helps me is to turn the lathe off at times, run my fingers over the wood, get a feel for how the shape is working.  You can feel things with your fingers that your eye can't see.  

Have Fun.   I look forward to my turning time now, it's very rewarding to see a block of wood become a beautiful object in short time.  I've only done about 30 pens, but I've already had a few where I go "WOW, that rocks".  

Enjoy,

Steve


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## sbell111 (Feb 17, 2009)

Hillbilly said:


> Jerry, What is "HF"
> 
> That is a huge savings, Thanks, Brian


HF is Harbor Frieght.  I've bought their sandpaper packs and have had absolutely no problems with them.  They appear to be just as good (or identical) to the 4-roll box that Woodcraft sells.

There are two Harbor Freight stores in Nashville; Lebanon Road and Hickory Hollow.  They also sell online.

Also, it might help you to know that there is a Woodcraft store in Franklin.  I buy stuff there when I can't wait to get something shipped to me.  They also give turning classes.


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## jtrusselle (Feb 18, 2009)

Brian - great advice from everyone.  Buy some maple or other dry/non-oily wood and advance to the tougher working woods like Coco - watch Yo-Yo's, Russ Fairfields and others video tips - read all you can in past posts and in the library - and above all learn from your mistakes.  Having spare tubes on hand is a good thing!

It's good to keep a log of pens that you give away or sell.  Keep a couple plastic bins in the shop... one to hold useless cut offs and massive failures (makes for interesting conversation at the firepit) and the other to hold usefull cut offs and failures that you may be able to reuse later.  Made some nice key chains out of 7mm slim line blow outs and cut offs, plus you can mix and match tops and bottoms if one end fails such as a birdseye bottom with a diamond wood top... If your work'n with a nice wood like purple heart or amboyna, you might want to collect some of the fine sawdust in a cup in case you need to do some gap filling.  Just be sure to label the wood type.

Good luck bud,
Jim


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## gljjr (Feb 20, 2009)

I would NOT buy the box of rolled sand paper. Instead go get some Norton 8 1/2" X 11" sheet paper in each of the grits you want. Then get out the paper cutter and cut the sheets into 1" wide strips. Assemble these 1" strips into packs with 1 sheet of each grade of sand paper in order of the grit. Then put a staple on one end. 

This will cost more up front but the sand paper lasts at least 5 times as long and having them step from 1 grit to the next makes it fast and easy to work your way through the grits.

As for the tools, If you are buying a grinder anyway you might look at the Harbor Freight copy of the Tormek. They often put them on sale for about $80. They actually take the Tormek attatchments and work pretty well. They are NOT the quality of a Tormek but for home use they are good enough IMHO. I've been very happy with mine that I got on sale for $69


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## TellicoTurning (Feb 21, 2009)

dogcatcher said:


> Find the closet chapter of AAW http://www.woodturner.org/community/chapters/LocalChapters.asp
> 
> Attend a meeting and makes someone that can mentor you.  Woodturners as a whole bend over back wards to help beginners.  A couple of hours with someone that knows woodturning is worth it's weight in gold.
> 
> Marvin



If it's a "closet" chapter,:biggrin: how do you know it's out there.... the only closet turner I know about is Skye and he's come out and moved into the living room :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:


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## Art Fuldodger (Feb 21, 2009)

gljjr said:


> I would NOT buy the box of rolled sand paper. Instead go get some Norton 8 1/2" X 11" sheet paper in each of the grits you want. Then get out the paper cutter and cut the sheets into 1" wide strips. Assemble these 1" strips into packs with 1 sheet of each grade of sand paper in order of the grit. Then put a staple on one end.
> 
> This will cost more up front but the sand paper lasts at least 5 times as long and having them step from 1 grit to the next makes it fast and easy to work your way through the grits.




  I second that, the Norton 3x paper is awesome stuff.  And Woodcraft has a decent price on their job packs, $10 for 20 sheets.  Home Depot wants $15 for the same.

  Instead of a paper cutter, I just set the sheet over one of the ways on my lathe, and give the loose end a good downward snap, and it tears it quite quickly and cleanly.


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## Daniel (Feb 21, 2009)

Compare the spacers you have with the mandrel to the center band of the slimline pen kit. if they are the same size you are good to go for slimlines. all other kits need different bushings though.


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## ngeb528 (Mar 7, 2009)

Dario said:


> Good comments about MT1 vs MT2 but too late unless he can cancel/return his purchase. Fact is some ask here and still buy MT1 lathe because of budget restrictions.
> 
> Regret always comes later.


 
I don't regret buying a MT1..... but we also got a MT2 so we have everything covered. 

Nancy


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