# The "best" finish?



## jimr (Jan 30, 2005)

There have been hundreds of discussions, opinions, comments and advice on this dozens of other forums about what is the "best" finish. I know that most of this comes from personal experience and what "works for me". It appears to me that there are three factors involved - appearance, durability and ease of application. Appearance and ease of application are very subjective to each individual. Durability is something that should be more objectively measureable. For instance, from what I have read, lacquer is more moisture and wear resistant than shellac. If that is a fact then lacquer should be a "better" finish than a shellac product. Then there is CA, which apparently is an extremely durable finish. What about acrylic, how does that stand up to moisture and wear. Recently I have seen discussions on Enduro poly, how does it measure up. 
I realize that there will be tradeoffs in appearance and ease of application when trying to achieve the best durability. Aside from that is there any data anywhere that can be universally accepted as to what product can provide the highest degree of durability?
Or am I asking a question that simply has no answer? 
Any comments would be appreciated.


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## Fred in NC (Jan 30, 2005)

There will always be lots of opinions on this subject.  As far as factual data, I never found any.


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## tipusnr (Jan 30, 2005)

Durability, in my opinion, is not the deciding factor in a good finish.  Many durable finishes cause you to loose the feel of wood in your hand.  Thick coatings also lack "warmth".  Each finish has it's place which is why they've been on the market so long.  Additionally some woods need to breath to stay viable (though at the thicknesses we use it's probably not a concern).

Again, just my opinion, but I would rather see discussions on how to use (apply) different finishes to different materials, or how different finishes react in different environments (i.e. hot, cold, salt air, dry areas, etc.) than constant discussions on whose number 1.

If your customers are concerned about a writing instrument that will last through the ages with no care on their part - good luck - even the sticks they used on clay tablets had to be sharpened occasionally![]


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## Gary (Jan 30, 2005)

Durability may not be the deciding factor, but it certainly is a big factor. Who want's a pen that the finish wears off in a week or two? On the other hand I don't want one finished with spar varnish, although it would sure be durable. Like so many cases, we end up compromising and using the finish we are most satisified with.


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## Old Griz (Jan 30, 2005)

IMHO, there is no one "best" finish... as mentioned above, some people have a finish or finishing technique that works best for them and gives the results they are looking for... 
Some of us may use a different finish or technique depending on the material we are using for the pen... some woods are extremely oily, some so dry that they soak up finishes like a sponge, others have open grain... all these variables can change the either the way we apply a finish or the type of finish we use.. 
My suggestion would be to experiment with techniques and finishes until you find some that do what you want and look the way you want them to look... then perfect those techniques until you get as perfect as you can.


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## jwoodwright (Jan 30, 2005)

All great advice.  I practice on my scraps.  Haven't been so lucky and still practicing...  [:I]


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## wayneis (Jan 30, 2005)

The thing that has to be understood is that the finishes that many of us use, CA, Enduro and so on never were intended to be used in the way that we use them.  The finishes that were made for pens, in my opinion have no durability and thats why so many of us have been looking elsewhere.  So you will not find written fact sheets on any of these more durable (in my opinion) finishes because we are heading into unchartered territory.  But I can tell you from my experence that you probably will not find a easy to apply, long lasting durable finish.  To me all good things come to those who have the patence to work at it.

Wayne


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## Mac In Oak Ridge (Jan 30, 2005)

What I want to know is this.  The people that make Enduro Water Base Polyurethane varnish also make a water base lacquer.  Why have all of us Enduro users settled on Poly?  Has anyone tried their lacquer?  If so, with what kind of result?


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## Rudy Vey (Jan 30, 2005)

What is the best finish on a wooden pen? I think the best finish is to do a real good job when it comes to the sanding!! What most of my customer appreciate is that the pen has the feeling of wood, and not the artificial feel of a varnish, laquer or any non-natural material.
I did one thing and that was let some of my best customers compare the feel of a pen finished with CA finish and a pen that was finished with friction polish and I had used it for some time, so the polish has worn off. Both pens were made from identical wood and under went the same turning and sanding process: turning with gouge and skew, started sanding with 400 paper and through all MM grades.
Then wiping down the blanks with alcohol swabs and applying two coats of crystal coat friction polish and finished off with Ren wax.

The Ca finished pen had a more glossy, shiny look and a slick feel. But for me and most of my customer the one thing counts and that is that the pen feel natural, and "ages" with time and developes a patina. 
I just got some pens for repair back that were made about 1 and 1/2 year ago and daily used - they looked great, they had darkened a bit but were smooth and still had the good old feel of natural wood.
Thats what my customers want.

Rudy


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## Mac In Oak Ridge (Jan 30, 2005)

Rudy,
"just got some pens for repair back...........

What kind of pens?

What was wrong with them?

What did you do to fix?

What kind of plating on the metal?

How has the plating held up?  Heavy use or light use by customer?

You repair for free or charge?

This is the first post I have seen about getting 1 1/2 year old pens back.   Sure would like to know all the details.


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## wayneis (Jan 30, 2005)

Rudy with a string of questions that long you should charge for the time it takes to answer.  lol

Wayne


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## wayneis (Jan 30, 2005)

Mac when I started using the Enduro I don't even remember why I chose the Poly but I've been so happy with the results I have no reason to try something new.  Heck it took me almost four months to get the process down to the way that I want on a pen to pen basis.

Wayne


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## Rudy Vey (Jan 30, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Mac In Oak Ridge_
> <br />Rudy,
> "just got some pens for repair back...........
> 
> ...



Here are my answers:
1. American style flat top pens
2. People put them in their back pocket and the forget they are there and sit down - results very often in breaking the pen in the middle, so the transmission part that screws onto the lower barrel breaks just about there.
3. Fix is easy: unscrew the finial and clip, press out the brass insert with the transmission from the back (I use an arbor press and a cut off piece from a mandrel, use a small piece of wood with a hole drilled through so just the transmission fit through it). Then remove brass insert from broken transmission and press back in upper barrel, put a new transmission on and assemble the pen again. Takes longer to desribe here than to do it.
4. The plating was Titanium Gold, like all my FT and SL pens.
5. Plating has held up superb, no signs of wear.
6. Heavy use of pen.
7. Repair was free (I did it free for this customer since she had bought 75 pens from me in Summer of 2003, and only the two came back with the same breakage).

Hope these answers leave no open questions. I get spare parts for repairs, like transmissions, from my supplier Berea. My repairs have been so far:
- broken transmission (like above)
- broken clips
- yanked caps of El Grande pens (one can not believe how some people pull and pull until it gives, instead of asking or try to unscrew)
- replacement (!) of refills 

Rudy


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## jimr (Jan 30, 2005)

That was a good discussion. Lots of tips, opinions,etc. I do agree with Gary- durability has to be a strong consideration. Anyone who is going to pay $20 or $200 for a pen is going to expect it to hold up better than a 49 cent walmart special. But I do tell everyone who buys one of my pens- This is wood, not stainless steel, it will age with use like any wood product but it will also feel better with use.
So, the bottom line is the best finish is whatever you decide the best finish is. 
So far I have not tried enough to make that decision. Now, because of one of the responses, I have to try the enduro water based polyurethane!


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## wayneis (Jan 30, 2005)

Jim if you are looking for a durable, lasting finish with depth, high gloss and shine and a nice soft feel you will get a beautiful result with Enduro.  But I have to add that if you are looking for a quick and easy finish then you will have to look else where.  As most good woodworkers will say, a finish is only as good as the time, care and effort that is put into it.  I'm not trying to scare you away just want you to know that the result of using Enduro will only be satisfactory if you take the time and put the effort into it.
Wayne


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## Gary (Jan 30, 2005)

Before I started turning pens, I spent 30+ years working wood, usually furniture and small designer boxes. I've watched many other fellow woodworkers build really nice projects. They would spend a lot of careful time getting the cuts right, getting the right fit and in general working hard to complete a nice object, whatever it was. Then would come the time to finish the project. So often they would botch it up because they wouldn't take the time to do it right. It seems to be a human trait... the closer to completing something, the more hurried we get. It's something you must fight against, if you want to become a good craftsman, wood or whatever.



> _Originally posted by wayneis_
> <br />Jim if you are looking for a durable, lasting finish with depth, high gloss and shine and a nice soft feel you will get a beautiful result with Enduro.  But I have to add that if you are looking for a quick and easy finish then you will have to look else where.  As most good woodworkers will say, a finish is only as good as the time, care and effort that is put into it.  I'm not trying to scare you away just want you to know that the result of using Enduro will only be satisfactory if you take the time and put the effort into it.
> Wayne


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## Mac In Oak Ridge (Jan 31, 2005)

Boy Gary, you got that right.  I am guilty.  Like a horse that sees the barn door.


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