# Precision Scrap?



## skiprat

Wasn't sure where to put this....here or the tool forum, but as I made it I guess it can go here:wink:

Just over 4 years ago this month I joined IAP and while cruising through the library I came across some really cool vids by Ed Davidson ( YoYoSpin )
In one of his videos he was using a weird contraption that I found out was called a Rose Engine Lathe. I had never seen anything like it, but promised that it would be on my lengthy 'to-do' list.
So over the last few months I've been building this monstrosity:biggrin: from 99% scrap parts or tools I had already like the router and compound table. 

This beast has two speeds from two motors. Under the table there is an old drill press motor that drives it at 1450 rpm. Between the sides of the machine is a small DC motor that drives a double worm gear arrangement to turn the spindle at a whopping 1 rpm ( yep, one rev per minute! )

In these pics it is shown with my tailstock with a homemade spring loaded live centre. I threaded the spindle so it takes other chucks. 

Still work to do making the 'rubbers'
The only parts I bought are the two collet chucks and the plumber block bearings. The rest comes from old electrical switchgear and even bits from an old bicycle.

I haven't actually used it yet, cos I'm having too much fun making the attachments for it. 

So thanks Mr Davidson!!!!:biggrin:


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## wood-of-1kind

Sheer genious!!!! Good to see you 'postin' again.


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## IPD_Mrs

When I look at those gears all meshed together, all I can see is your brain at work.  You really are in a league all your own.


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## ldb2000

Leave it to you to bodger up a Rose engine lathe . That is an awesome piece of precision machinery

Great to see you back Steven !!!!


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## louie68

This is truly amazing keep thinking steve.
Steve did you every find that cross inlay pen picture ? I still like to see it, 
Louie56


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## GoodTurns

wow. 'nuff said.


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## Phunky_2003

See thats what we been missing.  Absolutely amazing!  With the unbelievable pieces of  art your able to do on a lathe, I can wait to see what you can turn out with this.


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## mrburls

That's AWESOME. I'm impressed  
I went to try one out this summer back in Pa. when visiting my parents. The guy who makes them actually lived only an hour away from where I use to live and never knew it. They are very impressive machines. Takes alot of time and practice to learn how to use one. 

*YET ALONE BUILD ONE* 

Keith "mrburls"


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## alphageek

Sweet.... Looking forward to seeing cools stuff made with this.


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## sptfr43

Oh great you're back! Just when I was getting over feeling inadequate next to your stuff. ; )  I would love to know where you come up with these inspirations. welcome back!


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## witz1976

Dang Skip, no wonder why you haven't been posting.  You were to damn busy building a new machine!  Impressive work, glad to have ya back posting!!


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## skiprat

louie56 said:


> This is truly amazing keep thinking steve.
> Steve did you every find that cross inlay pen picture ? I still like to see it,
> Louie56


 
Sorry Louie, I think I must have lost it or something.:frown:



mrburls said:


> That's AWESOME. I'm impressed
> I went to try one out this summer back in Pa. when visiting my parents. The guy who makes them actually lived only an hour away from where I use to live and never knew it. They are very impressive machines. Takes alot of time and practice to learn how to use one.
> 
> *YET ALONE BUILD ONE*
> 
> Keith "mrburls"


 
Keith, are you talking about Messrs Lindow and White? I'd love to have one of their machines!!!  I may buy a cutting frame from them.....and a straight line chuck.....and .....:biggrin:


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## JohnU

Glad to see you posting again Skiprat!  Was afraid we lost you.  That tool is unbelievable. No surprise YOU built it.  Can't wait to see how you amaze us with it!


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## hewunch

Skip, you never cease to amaze me. Very slick!


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## el_d

......(Jawdropping)

:redfaceSpeechless) 


I still want to be a Rat when I grow up.......:biggrin:

Im still trying to turn a stupid Bolt for a grip.


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## ctubbs

el_d said:


> ......(Jawdropping)
> 
> :redfaceSpeechless)
> 
> 
> I still want to be a Rat when I grow up.......:biggrin:
> 
> Im still trying to turn a stupid Bolt for a grip.


Heck! I'm still trying to get some wood to come out the right size to fir my pen parts:redface:.  Still too big/too little.
Charles

Oh yes, Skiprat, way AWESOME!!!


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## scotian12

This is certainly a project worthy of your talents. We will look forward to the masterpieces doming off the lathe in the near future.   Darrell Eisner


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## Displaced Canadian

I'm just wondering how much head scratching and swearing went into that. :biggrin: Any chance we can get some pics of it in action to get a better idea of how it works?


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## Padre

How super cool!  That is some very nice engineering and building.  I can't wait to see what you can do with it.


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## Fred

Yep, truly amazing device. Now, make a YouTube of it in action so we can see it make coffee or something.

I have one question ... Do you go to bed at night and have several simple/normal dreams, or, do you toss and turn designing 'stuff?'


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## OKLAHOMAN

How appropriate Skippy the "Mad Scientist" comes back on Halloween.


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## skiprat

Many thanks for the comments and particularly for the 'welcome backs':wink:



Displaced Canadian said:


> I'm just wondering how much head scratching and swearing went into that. :biggrin: Any chance we can get some pics of it in action to get a better idea of how it works?


 
LOL, *lots* of swearing:biggrin:

The theory behind them is actually fairly simple. It *gets* EXTREMELY complicated, but the basics are straight forward. I honestly haven't even scratched the surface yet.

Like any lathe, it has a headstock. Instead of the headstock being solidly fixed to a bed, it has a pivot point at it's base.
The spindle is traditionally rotated slowly by hand or treadle. Many modern ones have motors with gearboxes to turn it slowly.
The spindle not only carries the workpiece in a chuck but it also has 'Rosettes' with specifically designed lumps and bumps around it's circumferance.
There is a solid pillar next to the headstock that has a 'rubber' mounted on it. It's called a rubber because it 'rubs' against the rosette. 
As the spindle rotates with the rosette and the rubber touching, the headstock is forced to rock back and forth about the pivot point. Either a spring or a counterweight keeps it against the rubber. 

Next, a cutter ( which is mounted on the compound table) is advanced into the workpiece in increments until the desired depth is attained. 

From here on it can get infinitely complex, but a common feature is 'pumping'. Here the spindle not only rotates, but also moves in and out along it's own axis. Most often a rosette with bumps on it's side does this, but there are other methods. Mine will bump off a standard rosette. 
The bumps on the rosette will push the spindle forward and a spring will push it back. You can see the springs on mine behind the rhs bearing block.

Sometimes when a pattern is being explored, before possibly ruining an expensive workpiece, a trial run is done on a piece of paper. 
This actually needs some imagination as the line produced by the pen really only shows the very point of the cutter being used and of course doesn't show any depth. It gives you only a 2D image of what will be a 3D cut. 

I clamped a roller bearing ( rubber) on my pillar just to show the principle.

Clear as mud?:biggrin:

Edit in; I just added the third pic to show how the pattern reverses simply by moving the pen ( cutter ) to the opposite side of the workpiece. So what ever the movement caused by the rubber - rosette, that pattern will be inversed. I think this is the single biggest change that can be done without changing the shape of either the rubber or the rosette. 
I'm only using a simple 24 bump rosette, but I believe that even this settup can give thousands and thousands of different patterns.:tongue:


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## LEAP

Let's see:
blank flange: Got that
Bicycle chain and sprockets: Got those
Ali plate: Got that
Pen Mandrel: got that too
Dremel: yup
Pillow blocks: around here some where


A clue on how to put it all together: not a chance

I give up! Rube Goldrat  has struck again!

Can't wait to see what you produce with this. 

Glad to see you back, you always keep me thinking.


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## nava1uni

hewunch said:


> Skip, you never cease to amaze me. Very slick!



I agree. Steve, you are amazing.  Nice to see your work once again.  Thanks for posting the pictures.


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## Jim15

Glad your back, i love looking at your creations.


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## LEAP

Alright Steven,
Thanks to the pics and explanations I see how most everything goes together and works. One question about the little drive motor on the inside what does that one do? compared to the motor with the step pulley?


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## turbowagon

Like a mad scientist!  Amazing -- can't wait to see what you create on that beast.

On a side note, I perused your online gallery this weekend for the first time, and it's quite impressive and inspirational.  You're truly a master, and I'm really glad you're back on the forum.

- Joe


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## YouthMinisterDan

You definetly have a gift. Glad your back.


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## PenMan1

That's just Brilliant. Yep, that's what it it----Brilliant. I can't wait to see it perform. Any chance for a YouTube clip?


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## Steve Busey

Amazing *Frankenlathe* there, Skippy! No doubt, you have more inspiration by accident than I do on purpose! :beat-up:


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## stolicky

What a piece of %#$@!  I mean, what is that plastic Staedler thing?  : )

All joking aside, rose engine lathes are amazing machines, and you have, once again, demonstrated your skilled and creative talents.  Thank you.


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## cnirenberg

Holy #$%%$ Mr. Gingery, where do you find the time?  Steven looks too cool. (hey that's funny, me and Chris (Stolicky) speak the same lingo.  Must be that Loudonville thing)


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## skiprat

LEAP said:


> Alright Steven,
> Thanks to the pics and explanations I see how most everything goes together and works. One question about the little drive motor on the inside what does that one do? compared to the motor with the step pulley?


 
Phil, the little motor is the primary motor. This is the one that drives the spindle at about 1 rev/minute. 
The big motor underneath ( you can see the step pulley ) will rarely be used and is used as a conventional lathe motor. The headstock is simply prevented from rocking while this motor runs. It will be used to 'true-up' the work piece prior to decoration using the smaller motor.
It really just allows me not to lose any accuracy by transferring the work from another lathe to this one.

The small DC motor spins at around 1250 rpm ( at 24Vdc), but has two worm gear reduction gears that give an output of 3 rpm. The ratio between the small cog and big cog is around 3:1 thus a final drive of 1 rpm.  The torque is phenomenal !!! So to take advantage of this I used the bike chain and cogs. I found that using round rubber belts, to ovecome slipage and 'springyness' I needed to make the belt so tight that it refused to 'pump'. With the chain, I only need to take up the slack gently and it still pumps beautifully. 
Of course, to stop the chain de-railing while pumping, I hand to keep the cogs as far apart as possible. They are about 350mm between centres now. This is why there are more holes in that side of the frame than in a Swiss cheese. :redface: No planned engineering in my shop!!! Everything is done by trial, error, blue air and coffee:biggrin:

If the cutter ( so far only a router in my case ) tends to dwell on the workpiece too long then of course it may just burn a finished cut, so I will put a variable resistor in with the motor and up the supply volts to 48Vdc and then I will have variable speed range of between 1 and 3 rpm. 

Thanks again for comments:wink:

I'm going for a pint.....I just spent 7 1/2 hours driving to Dundee, Scotland. 2hrs of that were stuck in roadworks outside Mr Liggets house!!!!
Mark, tell them to hurry up and finish that damned M80 upgrade!!!!:tongue:


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## LEAP

Thanks, makes sense now. Of course you know I hate anybody who just happens to have a spare X-Y table hanging around to build a new lathe with.


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## TurnerJohn74

Very good ingenuity! Impressive to. Good job.
                                  John


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## Rfturner

Skippy You never cease to amaze me, I would love to just watch you work and glean as much a I can from you. At the very least I can say that I watched a mad scientist work and create another beautiful piece


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## gwilki

Welcome back, Steven. What have you been doing in your absence?     

Seriously, she is a beauty.


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## Pens By Scott

Awesome work!  I had to Google what the Rose Engine Lathe was, and what it does.  Amazing!  I can't wait to see what you craft with it!


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## Rojo22

If I am ever on a deserted island, I want you there with me Skip!  You could make a turbo charged raft with only coconuts and a ball of yarn!  Looks awesome and  I cannot wait to see what comes off that contraption.


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