# Another tap & die question



## Laurenr

I am deep into learning kit less. I have successfully made the section, for a 6mm Bock feed. I now have questions about threading the body and cap of the pen. Exactly what tap & die size do I need, and where do I get them?

I have been struggling along, doing this by myself, ...hey, I need a mentor. Please, somebody volunteer. I am a well experienced pen maker, kits, and have a metal lathe. 

Help a brother out here!

Lauren


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## Displaced Canadian

Victor Machinery - Metalworking tools and supplies

I use these guys. There's a minimum order of $25 as you get further and further down this road you'll find that it's easy to spend that much at one time. Kitless isn't a cheaper way to make pens. You just spend your money on different things. 
 The advantage of kitless is that for the most part you can make any part any size you want to. As you have probably noticed there are a few parts that dictate size. The nib or refill and the clip. There are things you can do with the clip to make almost any size work the nib, not so much. The main thing that dictates size is strength. Have a hole with 9x1 threads on the inside and 11x1 on the outside and it will break about the third time you put the cap on it. Shallow threads are easier to cut and leave more materiel on the blank. For me I've found that .75 thread pitch works well. I use metric taps and dies because the math is easier. I'll normally use a 12x.75 mm for the cap mostly because that's about as big of a pen that I would want. And the 14mm die requires a larger holder than I have. If you have any other questions don't be afraid to ask. Also remember that most of the fun of the custom world is puzzling out how to make a design work. The journey is more fun than the destination.


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## Laurenr

Are these taps and dies available at, say, Harbor Frieght? If I use the 12x.75 tap on the cap, then what size die do I use on the body?


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## Displaced Canadian

Same size for both. I wouldn't get taps and dies from Harbor Freight because with this type of tooling you definitely get what you pay for. Also most commonly available tooling isn't fine enough for pen making.

Sent from my phone using some program


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## Dalecamino

Lauren, have you looked in the library? There are articals and, tutorials that SHOW you how to make a kitless pen. For some reason I'm not able to copy & paste a link. But, under the "Pens" section, BigShed has a nice tutorial titled "Kitless Pens". There are others including one by Texatdurango titled  " Another way to make a pen" 

I agree Harbor Freight is not the place to buy Taps, Dies or, Drill Bits. Littlemachineshop.com might have them (I'm not sure of that) if you want to avoid the $25.00 minimum. Just trying to give you another option here. I think the .75 pitch increases the price some. Maybe some other members can expand on this, during their coffee break later.:biggrin:


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## mredburn

http://content.penturners.org/library/general_reference/taps_dies_kitless.pdf


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## mredburn

Also check Amazon for the taps and dies sizes you want.  Victor machinery sells some of their stuff on there with no minimum. There are other vendors as well that sell the sizes you will be looking for.  Make sure that they are HSS or carbide not carbon steel Get the round dies not the square.  IF you dont have  a die holder buy or make one.


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## Bruce markwardt

I agree that Victor is the best choice for single start taps and dies.

I think most people make a "standard" pen using one set of taps and dies.  In my case, my "standard" uses 10mmx1.0 for the section to barrel and 12mmx.75 for the barrel to cap.  The 10mm will also work for a finial, although I have found that some clips/pens work better with a 9mm.

In addition to the taps and dies, I would strongly recommend buying a die holder, a tap wrench and a tap guide.  These make it much easier to get the taps and dies aligned properly.  Victor also sells these.  Use lots of lubricant (cooking spray) and go slow.  If it feels like something is going to break, it probably will.

There are a few youtube videos that might help you out.  My one recommendation is to keep notes on what you are doing.  Eg. what size drill bits, and drill depths you are using.  It makes it a lot easier when you have a "blueprint" for what works for you and for your tooling.


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## duncsuss

mredburn said:


> Get the round dies not the square.



To expand on this a little ... the round dies are forcutting threads where none existed. The hexagonal ones I've seen at Harbor Freight are for "chasing" (i.e., renewing/refreshing) existing threads.

That said, since we're normally using acrylics and other soft materials (as opposed to metals) the hexagonal ones might work -- if you get quality ones, that is, not the set I bought off eBay for $17 including shipping.

I'm like the other folks who've said they use metric x 0.75 threads: either M9 x 0.75 or M10 x 0.75 for the section/barrel, and M12 x 0.75 or M14 x 0.75 for the cap to barrel.

Sketch the cross-section of the parts before you make them, add dimensions and note how much material thickness is left in the walls after you've cut threads. (It must be a positive number :biggrin

And have fun.


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## Laurenr

Yeah, good point, re: drawing it out. Several semesters of mechanical drawing ought to of some use here.

Thank you all!!

Lauren


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## mikespenturningz

OK guys I have exactly the same question and the article that Mike points to doesn't answer it. I purchased the tap for the 6mm nib also. It is actually 7.9mm.. I also got a 9 x .75m tap and die for the nib holder to body connection. This doesn't work it is too close to the 7.9m. Will a 10 x .75 work or do I need a 11 x .75m. I have made 2 of the nib holders using what I have and it is just too tight a tolerance. When I try to drill for the inner tap that holds the holder in my threads for the body connection just disintegrate.  So which will work? Is the 10 x .75 still too tight a tolerance?


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## mikespenturningz

I ordered the 10 x .75 tap and die from Victor.


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## Bruce markwardt

I use a 10 X 1.0, also from Victor.

I wouldn't buy an 11mm.  If you use a 12mm cap to barrel thread you won't have enough material.


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