# Micro Mesh



## dgelnett (Apr 18, 2011)

So how do you know when your MM is worn out? I know you can wash it to extend its use. It always feels smooth to me so that just leaves looking at it for worn spots.


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## Dana Fish (Apr 18, 2011)

What steps do take to wash your MM?


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## dgelnett (Apr 18, 2011)

They say you should put them in your jean's pocket and then wash them. I normally put them in the sink and run water over them and rub with my hands to get the dust off.


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## TomS (Apr 18, 2011)

If you are using all 9 grits, you should be able to produce some slurry with the first 5, or sometimes 6 grits. When the slurry stops, they're worn out.
Tom


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## leestoresund (Apr 18, 2011)

I used mine for a year and still got good results (maybe 250-300 pens).
I keep them soaking in a large container and when I use one I put it into a smaller container of water so that I can get the slurry off. When I have run the full 9 grits I put them back into the large container.

They worked so I was happy.

But I decided that they probably were worn out so I bought another set. 

The new ones cut a lot better and faster.

So by my experience I can get about 200-250 pens from one set of MM.

I turn wood, acrylic and truestone and use MM on all.

Lee


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## OOPS (Apr 18, 2011)

When I took my first class in penmaking, the instructor said that the grit is pretty well used up at about 125 pens.  That seems substantially less than the results you are getting.  Perhaps using them wet extends their life.


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## Wildman (Apr 19, 2011)

Have never used micromesh dry on wood or acrylic.  Not sure why you would want too.


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## leestoresund (Apr 19, 2011)

Perhaps your instructor just has different guidelines.
Perhaps your instructor is not as frugal as I.
In the end it is just a matter of what you are happy with.
You now have a reasonable range of pens from which you can form your own opinion as to the efficacy of MM.

Lee


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## Russianwolf (Apr 19, 2011)

they are worn out when they stop producing the results you want in the time you want.

If you get the results in 5 minutes (guestimate as I've never timed it) when new, you have a base line. Then figure out how long you are willing to add to it to get to the same point as the abrasives wear.


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## nativewooder (Apr 19, 2011)

Micro Surfacing Products suggests alway using MM for wet sanding, they suggest water, I suggest mineral spirits, 'cause wood absorbs water.  If you want to replace your MM quite regularly, use it for dry sanding as the heat generated will ruin it.  It's hard to believe that the MM Woodworking Kit I purchased back in the day for $29+ now sells for $57+!


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## workinforwood (Apr 19, 2011)

I have no answers. I have been using the same pads for 5 yrs now and I never even wash them.  I only use them for wet sanding. They still look good to me.


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## Daniel (Apr 19, 2011)

The last three gits of regular MM are made of different stuff than the rest. It wears out faster. Some people say they don't use the 12000 at all since they don't think it makes a visible difference. So that leaves still two grits that will wear out faster. I've noticed they start getting a glazed look to them. But the other grits last a very very long time. As for when it is worn out, when it stops working. I have so many sets around my shop now I couldn't tell you how long any of it lasts anymore. I know my first set lasted for well over 100 pens and I finally just decided to replace it.


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## SteveG (Apr 19, 2011)

I like to get through the MM process (actually the entire pen making process) quickly. For this reason I replace sanding materials (Abranet) and MM fairly frequently. The reality is that the new material works much more quickly, but we are lulled into accepting the old because the change happens slowly. On a "per pen" cost basis, the cost of my time is far more expensive than the cost of sanding materials.
Steve


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## PenMan1 (Apr 19, 2011)

$57! Wow! I am perfectly happy with the $9.99 set of nine grits from CSUSA. I'd be afraid to use a $57 set. I'd mess 'em up too quick.


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## hunter-27 (Apr 19, 2011)

nativewooder said:


> Micro Surfacing Products suggests alway using MM for wet sanding, they suggest water, I suggest mineral spirits, 'cause wood absorbs water.  If you want to replace your MM quite regularly, use it for dry sanding as the heat generated will ruin it.  It's hard to believe that the MM Woodworking Kit I purchased back in the day for $29+ now sells for $57+!


Just to be different, I will disagree.  I have never wet sanded anything, wood or acrylic (don't care for water in my shop).  I also have used the same MM sheets for about 3 years.  I do wash them on occasion and they still perform well and I'll put my finish next to about anyone's and feel confident in it being up to par.  Of course this is my opinion, take it as you wish after all it was provided at no cost. :wink:

Landon


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## MartinPens (Apr 19, 2011)

hunter-27 said:
			
		

> Just to be different, I will disagree.  I have never wet sanded anything, wood or acrylic (don't care for water in my shop).  I also have used the same MM sheets for about 3 years.  I do wash them on occasion and they still perform well and I'll put my finish next to about anyone's and feel confident in it being up to par.  Of course this is my opinion, take it as you wish after all it was provided at no cost. :wink:
> 
> Landon



The whole wet sanding thing is something that I have never heard of until recently.  I use my MM pads dry as well for a year or more and never wash them. When it comes time to sand - I take a folded up paper towel and brush them off in front of the dust port. I might try washing them to see how that improves - but I have no interest in wet sanding and my finishes usually come out like glass. If someone wants to send me a pen that has been done with wet sanding : )  I would be glad to compare and photograph using a macro lens. 

Martin

Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner


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## LeeR (Apr 19, 2011)

Dry definitely wears them out faster.  My first MM pads were used on wood, prior to using acrylics or composites, and I went thru a set pretty quickly.

Using mineral spirits rather than water while finishing a wood pen is an interesting idea I'll try.  I prefer to never use water on anything wood -- I don't even use water-based finishes. I've developed a routine over the past 40+ years, so I'm a little slow to change.  (But I have done a few CA finishes lately, so I am not totally set in my ways to finish wood.)


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## leestoresund (Apr 19, 2011)

I, too, will try the mineral spirits, because the water will screw up a CA finish.
I've looked at the MM website. The cost for the 9 piece kit is about 1/3rd of what the retailers sell it for but the shipping costs make it prohibitive.


Lee


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## Russianwolf (Apr 19, 2011)

Woodpenpro still has the 2x2 pads for $13 and the 3x4 pads that I like for $17.50 Both are double sided.

I highly recommend them. They are color coded so no guessing which is which.


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## TexasTaxi (Apr 19, 2011)

Hold on a second!

You're supposed to use them WET? 

This is all making sense now. :frown:


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## dgelnett (Apr 19, 2011)

The reason I asked this question beside not knowing was that I noticed my old MM got my pen shinier than my brand new ones. It did take longer to use the old MM which made me assume they are ready to be replaced but when I saw how much shinier the pen is I thought I would hold off a little longer.


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## jttheclockman (Apr 20, 2011)

MartinPens said:


> hunter-27 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

Martin

Lets put the challenge back on you. Why don't YOU wet sand a pen and compare. Don't wet sand a wood pen that is not the thing to do. You can wet sand a wood pen if it has a finish on it such as CA or poly. If you decide to try it take note of the friction when sanding and the ease at which it glides. 

Wet sanding has been around for years. They do it in furniture making all the time. There they use an oil such as lemon oil. A good lacquer job needs polishing. 


I wet sand all the time when using MM. No need to wash the pads because they get washed in the water. You do need to cover the lathe bed so to not get water on it and have rust spots. MM does wear out and everyone is different. Depends alot on how long you sand with them, the pressure you apply when sanding, the speed at which you sand causes heat and wear, and to me if you use water or oils or not. To me dry MM will wear faster. Just some thoughts.


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## jttheclockman (Apr 20, 2011)

dgelnett said:


> The reason I asked this question beside not knowing was that I noticed my old MM got my pen shinier than my brand new ones. It did take longer to use the old MM which made me assume they are ready to be replaced but when I saw how much shinier the pen is I thought I would hold off a little longer.


 

This should not be the case. When MM wears out all you are doing is burnishing the finish as opposed to sanding. Make sure you are sanding in the proper order. Some of those colored MM pads the colors look way too much alike. If you use out of order you maybe taking a step backwards when you get close to the final steps and the pad after it can not take the swirl marks out. Just some more thoughts.


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## MSGMP (Apr 20, 2011)

Just my two cents. I keep two sets for finishing pens. When I buy a new set, it is strictly used for dry sanding my wood pens. After each use, I blow them off with the air hose which is kept next to my lathe. After I start to notice a difference in the length of time it takes to sand, usually after 125-150 pens, I order a new set and then use the old set for wet sanding acrylics and get at least as many acrylics done with the old set. I clean the wet sanding set with a soft tooth brush and water after each pen. I turn pens almost every day and have gone through 4 sets of the CSUSA 9 piece sets in a year and a half that I have been turning.


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## lorbay (Apr 20, 2011)

jttheclockman said:


> dgelnett said:
> 
> 
> > The reason I asked this question beside not knowing was that I noticed my old MM got my pen shinier than my brand new ones. It did take longer to use the old MM which made me assume they are ready to be replaced but when I saw how much shinier the pen is I thought I would hold off a little longer.
> ...


 
+1 on this. If it is pollishing rather than cutting like a newer piece, it's worn out. I was always tought by the big guns to use sandpaper or sanding pads like they were someone elses. If you think they are worn out they most probably are.
When dry sanding I get about 20 pens out of a set and wet 50. Anyone want my old ones??? seems like some of you guy's will get another 6 months out of them.Lol

Lin.


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## Smitty37 (Apr 20, 2011)

*Hmmmm*

I wet sand wood--almost all the time. Yes wood will absorb water but It drys. and wet sanding keeps a heck of a lot of dust out of my lungs, where I sure don't need it. Don't think I'd do it with segmented wood blanks though because of running colors but then I won't do much dry sanding so I won't do many segmented blanks. 

I've done a lot of stuff with water based stains and antique milk paint (also uses water). They work just fine for many applications.


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## thewishman (Apr 20, 2011)

lorbay said:


> When dry sanding I get about 20 pens out of a set and wet 50. Anyone want my old ones??? seems like some of you guy's will get another 6 months out of them.Lol
> 
> Lin.



I would really take you up on your offer, but I just started buffing - which means my current MM may never wear out.:wink:


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## jttheclockman (Apr 21, 2011)

I am still amazed at those that say they sand wood with MM. Can't figure at why you would use such expensive sandpaper. If you are putting CA on a wood pen there is no need to go over 800 grit at all. If you want to carry it to 2000 grit go and buy some automotive sandpaper. How many people do other woodworking???  Do you MM that before putting a finish on it and if not what is the difference and please don't tell me because you take a pen and look under a microscope. I don't believe it. 

And wet sanding wood that is a new one to me. Again I will refer to other woodworking projects, do you wet sand them too. Imagine wet sanding that desk you built. :biggrin:


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## jlord (Apr 21, 2011)

jttheclockman said:


> I am still amazed at those that say they sand wood with MM. Can't figure at why you would use such expensive sandpaper. If you are putting CA on a wood pen there is no need to go over 800 grit at all. If you want to carry it to 2000 grit go and buy some automotive sandpaper. How many people do other woodworking???  Do you MM that before putting a finish on it and if not what is the difference and please don't tell me because you take a pen and look under a microscope. I don't believe it.
> 
> And wet sanding wood that is a new one to me. Again I will refer to other woodworking projects, do you wet sand them too. Imagine wet sanding that desk you built. :biggrin:


I agree with this. I use just 600 dry after turning then apply CA & wet sand from 600 & MM to 12000. I never wet sand wood before finish is applied. 

When building cabinets I only dry sand to 220 then apply polyurethane finish & lightly sand with 320 between coats. There are no sanding marks seen by the eye. I never go that coarse with the pens.


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## mdwilliams999 (Apr 21, 2011)

*Learned something new*

I just started using MM.  I didn't realize you should use it wet.  It is also interesting that some are recommending to NOT use water.


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## Jgrden (Apr 22, 2011)

mdwilliams999 said:


> I just started using MM.  I didn't realize you should use it wet.  It is also interesting that some are recommending to NOT use water.


I have two sets. One for dry sanding and the other for wet. When deemed necessary by my Eagle eye, I wash them in soap and water.


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