# CA Glue finish problems



## TreeBits (Aug 17, 2012)

I am seeing clouding in my CA Glue finishes on several different pens made from a variety of different woods.  I see this on Koa, Kingwood, Bubinga, Dogwood, to name a few.  I have other pens finished at the same time that I am not seeing this problem on.  This is showing up from a few days to a few weeks after the pen is finished.  I'm pretty sure the blanks were all dry (but maybe not dry enough?)  What else might be causing this problem.  I work in my garage - closed if it's cold out, open if it's not.  I know I've seen this topic here before but I searched back a few months and couldn't find a releavant post.  It's not just frustrating, but humiliating whn a customer is returning a pen for this reason.


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## edstreet (Aug 17, 2012)

Clouding happens when there is to much heat, also accelerators can cause that.


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## Craftdiggity (Aug 17, 2012)

Could also be moisture.  Even a small amount could ruin the finish.  Another possibility is oil from the wood.  If you're working with oily woods like cocobolo or ebony, etc., try wiping the barrels down with acetone just before applying your first coat.


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## thewishman (Aug 17, 2012)

Tom, with the clouding occurring so long after the pen is completed, it seems like it has to be moisture. Heat or accelerator would cause clouding rather quickly. Though it has been a rather dry summer around here, your wood could still hold plenty of moisture.


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## jdporter99 (Aug 17, 2012)

I ran into the same thing about a week ago. I finished 2 tubes in paduak. Got the best finish on any of my pens so far. About a week later I noticed that one tube had a cloudy mark. It looks to me like it might have been my finger, either when I was pressing on the clip/cap, or maybe wiping a bit of dust off. The mark goes down and around the tube, but not all the way, just about wide enough that it could have been a finger. The bottom tube is completely clean, and the rest of the top tube is good. I finished them both at the same time, on a mandrel, with accelerator.


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## DannyHeatley (Aug 17, 2012)

I used to get clouding but now that I use ez bond ca and ez bond accelerator I don't have a problem.


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## TreeBits (Aug 19, 2012)

Thanks all for the answers.  I was away all weekend.  I knew that mositure could be the problem.  I did not know about heat or accelator being a problem.  I learned about how to do this by watching the Penn State Industries video on their website.  I don't think I am introducing heat into the process anywhere but do use the accelator every other coat or so.  perhaps I shouldn't?  I wonder if the humidity is just too variable working in my open garage in all manner of weather conditions - I'm pretty sure my blanks are dry - but could be holding more or less moisture due to the ambient weather conditions?  Thanks a lot everyone.


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## ossaguy (Aug 19, 2012)

I have had the best consistant CA finishes by starting with 4 coats of thin with no acellerator,then I go 4 coats of medium before giving it a light spray from about 2 feet away,with the dust collector hood & the dust collector pulling the spray thru.Then repeat,1 shot every 4 coats.Maybe experiment with using less accelerator like you were thinking?
  Just my 2 cents worth...

Steve


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## edstreet (Aug 20, 2012)

Moisture IN the wood, not in the air.  If you are wet sanding the wood (should not be at all) that would do it.  

Personally I don't use nor recommend ca accelerator's.

ossaguy, Why so many coats?


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## ossaguy (Aug 20, 2012)

I like the deep shine,and mostly it can make up for my overturning errors.My fit quality would be lost without CA.........I guess it's kindof a crutch for me.I get the best glass-like finish by going a little bigger,then using 400 to get it totally smooth and sized before micro meshing it.I'm getting better at sizing with my calipers,that's really improved my fit quality.

Steve


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## jppensplus (Aug 20, 2012)

I use Super "T" medium CA and BLO for my CA finishes, and use no accelerator.  When using other CA's from various vendors, I almost always have some sort of clouding problem, either immediately or after some time passes.  I also use denatured alcohol to clean and dry the blank before I start the finishing process.


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## edstreet (Aug 20, 2012)

Hmm, Ok. I can see the glass like finish but the number of coats was what I was wondering about.  You can do just one thick coat and sand it to size and be done with it.  Really no need for multiple coats at all, just make things harder on you with more points of failure and more time spent.


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## longbeard (Aug 20, 2012)

I use the ca and accelerator from woodcraft, normally put between 4 to 10 coats on wood with my lathe on the slowest speed, i hit it with accelerator after every pass, give a few seconds, run my finger on it to make its dry and hit with the next coat. I use the medium ca and havnt run into any cloudy issuses yet. now i did put 20 coats ( i know, overkill ) on a pc long click pen i just finished ( sanded 19 of them off ) but i wanted to make sure of a good finish and fit.


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## kovalcik (Aug 20, 2012)

> @edstreet:You can do just one thick coat and sand it to size and be done with it.


From my experience, I get all kinds of problems when I get too thick with my CA layers.  All kinds of clumping, bits of paper towel in the finish, air pockets, cloudy finish, etc.  

I prefer 6-10 thin layers using medium and no accelerator. Much easier to control and I can go straight to Micro Mesh to start polishing.

CA finishing is an inexact science at best. If 1 heavy coat works for you, that's great, but that has not been my experience.


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## turn4fun (Aug 25, 2012)

Moisture can get into a CA finished pen blank from the ends of the blank.  The end grain there has very open pores and moisture readily passes in or out.  

I have been sealing the ends of my finished pen blanks with thin CA just before I assemble the pens as insurance against clouding.  My method is to lay a quadruple folded small piece of paper towel on top of a piece of wax paper.  Then I drip several drops of thin CA onto a small area of the paper towel.  Next I take the finished pen blank and twist-roll one end in the CA.  I repeat this process for the other end of the blank.  Then, I'll put a 2nd coat of CA on each end.  This process leaves a nice smooth CA finish on the ends of the blanks without a lot of build-up.

I have not had any clouding issues since I've been doing this and I've turned clouding sensitive woods like ebony, cocobolo, olivewood.  I always do this no matter what wood I'm using.  Anyway, this might be worth a try.. Larry


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## JD Combs Sr (Aug 26, 2012)

turn4fun said:


> ...I have been sealing the ends of my finished pen blanks with thin CA just before I assemble the pens as insurance against clouding... Larry



Like Larry I seal the ends of my blanks to prevent moisture entrapment but my method is significantly different, more on that in a moment.  After applying my standard 1 coat of thin CA and then 10 coats of thick CA I always "wet" micro-mesh sand with "water", my mm pads stay in container of water next to my lathe ready for use.  I have *never* experience nor had any customer complaints about clouding of the finish and you can't get much wetter on the CA surface then dripping wet.

As for my sealing method:
I use a standard pen mill to square the ends of my blanks before turning.  Squaring of the blank typically leaves a slight recess in the end of the blank the size of the mill, I will place a few drops of thin CA in this recess and allow it to cure.  Normally slight surface tension on the CA prevents it from running into the brass tube but it is absorbed into the end-grain of the wood.  I do on occasion have to clean it out of the tube due to over doing the few drops:redface:.  When the ends are cured I will just touch the endgrain surface with the pen mill again to make sure that the CA is flat, then the blank with tube is process through the lathe and the 1+10 coats of CA are applied then mm'd to 12000.  I usually finalize the finish with a light coat of Ren wax, mostly because I like the feel of the waxed surface versus the CA plastic like surface.  BTW this method also solves another minor problem that I have experienced.  I use medium CA as my glue of choice for gluing in the tubes and on some occasions I have noted a small gap(absence of glue) at the end of the blank/tube opposite of the end that I inserted the tube into.  The endgrain sealing will also fill this occasional gap with CA eliminating the gap.


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