# poison ivy pen blanks



## psnjoy (Jun 25, 2006)

I saw on a web site someone offering poison ivy pen blanks, since then I have had a couple of the gallerys that carry my pens ask about it. I can not seem to find the sight again.

has anyone used this type of blank?  any imput would be helpful

Thanks again to everyone for all the help and ideas


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## jwoodwright (Jun 25, 2006)

Are you including a bottle of Calamine Lotion?  [:I][:0][]


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## mick (Jun 25, 2006)

I saw and bid on some on eBay awhile back. Stopped bidding after they got up around 30 bucks! I haven't seen any since then


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## woodpens (Jun 25, 2006)

If you are serious about turning poison ivy, get a lawyer before you try to sell it. You're asking for trouble.


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## JimQ (Jun 26, 2006)

Search for a previous thread on the subject!  This was discussed fully a few months back.

OOPS  my mistake. [:I]  It was on the other pen site.  Here is the thread.

http://www.thepenshop.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1416&KW=Poison+Ivy&TPN=1

JimQ


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## RussFairfield (Jun 26, 2006)

I have a question. 

Why would anyone in their right mind make, sell, or buy a pen made from Poison Ivy.


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## ilikewood (Jun 26, 2006)

I'm with Russ on this one.  Why don't we sell pens made from Nitro glycerin too?


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## psnjoy (Jun 26, 2006)

well I see some people think I am crazy for asking... I thought that that what this site is for.
to ask questions and get helpful responses, not to be mocked.

and actually once the wood is dried there is "normally" no problem with handeling the wood. I learned this while clearing brush while growing up. and never got any reaction to the vine, 

also I'm sure other types of wood causes skin problems. 

maybe this is not where i need to be to get the information needed.


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## its_virgil (Jun 26, 2006)

I have a friend who cut down quite a bit of poison ivy and stacket it in a pile. Several months later he decided to burn the pile of brush. Breathing the smoke caused sever poison ivy reaction in his lungs and airways. I'm with the others on this, no poison ivy blanks for me. So sorry you feel mocked because answers to your querry were not what you wished them to be. As for this being the place you need to be to get the penturning help you seek, only you can make that decision. I do hope you stay. We really have lots of good info to offer. 
Do a good turn daily!
Don


> _Originally posted by psnjoy_
> <br />well I see some people think I am crazy for asking... I thought that what what this site is for.
> to ask questions and get helpful responses, not to be mocked.
> 
> ...


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## psnjoy (Jun 26, 2006)

Virgil thank you for your helpful response...feeling mocked was not about getting the right answer, I was not sure about it that is why I asked. when it's said Why don't we sell pens made from Nitro glycerin too. and no one in there right mind would buy or sell a pen... well I do not find that a helpful response.

thank you again for your help


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## leehljp (Jun 26, 2006)

In all honesty Rick, asking questions about things that cause severe illness and near death to some are not often responded to on a real kind note. I understand from your background that you did not get an allergic reaction from dried PI, but some people are deadly allergic to that. I get a sever poison ivy reaction from normal yard ivy that people plant to climb fences and on the side of brick covered buildings. As Don said, some people have reactions from the smoke of dried PI/PO. A person unaware could put a PI pen in their shirt pocket, sweat a tad and then break out in severe allergy. Like some people do with peanut butter. I can eat peanut butter all day long but I don't joke or even talk about it around someone that almost died from it, or talk about it around someone that had a family member die from it.

I know that you were trying to get information on it. Please understand that sometimes in woodworking and here in pen turning, dangerous suggestions are rebutted <b>not with the direct intention to be rude</b> but at a degree equal to the severity of the danger.

I know that your intent was to try and makes something that no one else has done. We all think that way. [}] We have had questions asked about elephant ivory. Some people say no to ivory with a ferver and chide others for even thinking about it. On the other hand there is still pre-baned ivory available and mammoth ivory available too. Last month in Alaska, I asked about walrus tusk while in Fairbanks. I was greeted with hard cold stares. One lady in a whisper said that was a no-no there. Only Eskimos have the right to harvest and carve Walrus tusk. Then in Ankorage, I went into a store where it was "available", along with mammoth tusk.

Trying to make something out of a material that from an endangered species or that is poisonous, or that can have sever moral implications (human bones, skin) draws quick and often severe reactions. I know that from my Fairbanks experience - that the rebuttals can be taken as quite rude. [:I] My wife commented to me that I certainly asked the wrong question in the wrong place.


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## Tea Clipper (Jun 26, 2006)

I was under the impression that the bark from Chechen is similarly poisonous, but the wood itself is harmless.  How does poison ivy compare to Chechen?


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## RussFairfield (Jun 26, 2006)

I apologize if my quick reply offended you. I wanted to get your attention, and I did.

These allergins are accumulative. Just because you were able to rip the Poison Ivy vines out of the trees when you were a kid doesn't mean that you could do the same thing today. Many of us did the same thing for years, and we made things from all sorts of exotic woods like Cocobolo and the other Rosewoods, and we took Penicillin for years whenever we had a bad cold. Everything was good. Then we woke up one morning and discovered that our body had said, "Enough"; and we found ourselves allergic to a whole variety of things from bee stings, to Poison Ivy, to medications, to all of the wood we had collected in our shops. 

Mine started with a violent reaction to Bolivian Rosewood. It has taken me 10 years to get to where I can now pick up a piece of Cocobolo without my eyes swelling shut from it. I an still allergic to penicillin, I run away from bees, and I'm not about to start pulling down the Ivy vines. All of that began with one piece of Rosewood that triggered a whole bunch of things. 

I don't make pens from Cocobolo or any other wood that grows South of Texas because I don't want to take the risk of my having a reaction. Once was enough. I don't make pens from Walnut because I know that there are other people who are allergic to it, and I don't want them to have a reaction. But, I continue as a woodturner because there is a world full of beautiful wood that is safe. 

Yes, Poison Ivy is a pretty wood, and you might be able to make a pen from it. But, I would still say that you better not let anyone else touch it, ever. There are too many other very pretty woods out there that are safe. Why run the risk with one that isn't? 

If your goal is to scare people, then go ahead with the Poison Ivy, but make sure you sell it through that gallery so they will have the liability. However, if it is the appearance that you are after, then I suggest that you find some old Lilac. It looks the same as the Poison Ivy, it is just as rare, it has a appealing name to most folks; but it won't scare anybody and it is safe (as far as I know).

See. We ain't as bad as you thought.


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## alparent (Jun 26, 2006)

OK Russ.....now I'm nervous....Cocobolo.....dangerous?

Is there anybody out there that can make a list of what woods are safe and which are not [?]


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## ilikewood (Jun 26, 2006)

I too apologize.  I wasn't aiming to mock, just make a point.  I am DEATHLY allergic to poison ivy (I just have to be down wind).  I mentioned nitro as an example of "playing with fire".  Not everyone is allergic to it, but you risk a serious reaction if you are and don't know it...especially turning with it (breathing the dust, having the wood all over you body, etc).  Again, it was meant as a warning and not to insult.  If you took it as an insult, I again apologize.

I am not allergic to Cocobolo at all....although I am allergic to Chechen, as it has similar toxic oils as poison ivy.


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## DCBluesman (Jun 26, 2006)

> _Originally posted by alparent_
> <br />Is there anybody out there that can make a list of what woods are safe and which are not [?]


Since sensitivities vary from person to person and can change with exposure, I doubt that a single comprehensive list can be found.  Here are some helpful links. http://tinyurl.com/ny4d8 http://tinyurl.com/mlc4m http://tinyurl.com/7v2lx


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## Rifleman1776 (Jun 26, 2006)

Poison Ivy is called "POISOIN" for a reason. Selling a pen, or any item, made from it could have fatal consequences for the buyer or others handling it. The toxins last and last and last. For the guy who burned a pile, he is fortunate he is not dead. Some things are meant to be left alone. Do check out that other thread reference, there is more of what was said here. I think if eBay was notified of the offering mentioned, they would have pulled the listing.


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## Dario (Jun 26, 2006)

I just read a ton about poison ivy recently because I was harvesting wood near potential ivy infested areas and I have to agree with the warnings you received.

I read that the smoke from burned ivy does carry the toxins and can be fatal when inhaled.  I haven't read about handling cured/aged wood but why take the chance?  It may get you a customer or 2 but why risk it?  I think it is not worth the potential hazard to you and or any one that the pen will get in contact with.


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## RussFairfield (Jun 26, 2006)

If in doubt about a wood, put a sliver, shaving, or a couple pieces of sawdust on a bandaid and stick it to the soft skin on the underside of your upper arm. You will know the next morning if you have an allergy to the wood or not. If there is a welt, you are. If not, you aren't. It works for me.


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## Fangar (Jun 26, 2006)

Poison Ivy + Turning Frock = Bad Situation.


Fangar


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## huntersilver (Jun 26, 2006)

Poison Ivy, Yikes, sounds like a bad situation.


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## ilikewood (Jun 26, 2006)

Interesting article today in USA Today.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/yourhealth/2006-06-25-poison-ivy_x.htm


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## DCWoodworks (Jun 26, 2006)

psnjoy - I was the person that started the thread at Thepenshop.net about PI blanks.  Almost everyone had the same reaction, that they wouldnt turn it because of the toxins.  Does it stay in the wood even if dried after a year or so?  Who knows.  I will not say yes or no because I am not a chemist or doctor or specialist.  I remember what was said in the eBay auction.  The seller stated that he had been cutting PI into blanks for quite some time, and that he had many pens out in the public, and had not heard of anyone breaking out from it.  Yes, he could have been blowing smoke up potential buyers butts just to sell the blanks.  Or he could have been legit.  I am leaning towards smoke blowing, for the simple fact that I have not seen him selling anymore blanks since then.    I might try it someday just to show it around in a plastic case, but it will never be handled just so nobody gets hurt.  It is totally up to you whether or not you want to try it....just read up on all the info you can get on it, and decide for yourself.  Just make sure that it never gets handled.  You do not want to be responsible for other people getting sick from it.


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## huntersilver (Jun 26, 2006)

And remember all it takes is one person to have a reaction.


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## RussFairfield (Jun 26, 2006)

> _Originally posted by huntersilver_
> <br />And remember all it takes is one person to have a reaction.


Add one lawyer and you lose everything you own.


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## penbros (Jun 26, 2006)

who would think of something as dumb as poison ivy pen blanks. boy i thought corn cob was a stretch. gives me the chills just thinking about it. thats just street-stupid


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## DCWoodworks (Jun 26, 2006)

> _Originally posted by psnjoy_
> <br />well I see some people think I am crazy for asking... I thought that that what this site is for.
> to ask questions and get helpful responses, not to be mocked.





> _Originally posted by penbros_
> <br />who would think of something as dumb as poison ivy pen blanks. boy i thought corn cob was a stretch. gives me the chills just thinking about it. thats just street-stupid



I believe this is the type of reply that psnjoy was talking about.  It is one thing to disagree with someone's idea or thoughts by stating it in a professional manner.  Its another to totally ridicule and degrade them by saying they are dumb and street stupid.  There is nobody on any of these sites that are better than anyone else.  Nobody needs to be flamed like that.  It is not needed.


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## DCBluesman (Jun 26, 2006)

> _Originally posted by penbros_
> <br />who would think of something as dumb as poison ivy pen blanks. boy i thought corn cob was a stretch. gives me the chills just thinking about it. thats just street-stupid


I understand that you're only 14, but you need to learn some respect right now.


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## ilikewood (Jun 27, 2006)

I agree with Lou.  My response was not to mock, but just an example of "playing with fire".  Sometimes what you think is sound advice comes across as mocking or plain insults when written out.  I apologized for my error, so I think it would be in order if you did the same penbros.


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## penbros (Jun 27, 2006)

u guys are right i feel terrible.[V]im sorry psnjoy for calling you "street-stupid" and dumb.


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## penbros (Jun 27, 2006)

what i meant to say was i feel that turning a pen out of poison ivy is a bad idea. u are putting your health at risk when turning something that is not to be touched. If under the sercumstances that u should sell a poison ivy pen to the consumer where tolerances to poison ivy is greatly varigated you would  be putting the consumer at great risk. think first then turn![]


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## JimQ (Jun 27, 2006)

I hope you weren't including me as having mocked you.

I have had lots of experience with Poison Ivy back in NJ.  I spent 15 years in the landscape and tree business.  There was one time where I was asked to clear some land of PI for future construction.  Where we found vines going up the trees, we would cut them about 6 inches above the ground, and again about 3-4 feet up, and take out the section and spray a killer on the root section.  The following year I was asked to put off finishing the job.  It was <b>3 years later</b> that we pulled down the vines, and even though they were dead dry and leafless, several of my workers developed rashes.  By the way, the local landfill required PI to be seperated and identified before dumping.

I don't react severely, but I would not willingly handle a Poison Ivy pen.

JimQ


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## Rifleman1776 (Jun 27, 2006)

There is a story from WWII about the American stacking wood near where they thought the Germans were going to camp. The 'wood' included a lot of poison ivy. Sure enough the Germans built a big fire and inhaled the PI smoke. Americans won.
I was once at a big crafts fair where one vendor was selling hand carved spoons and ladles. He had one ladle that he asked people to guess the wood. Few did. It was PI. When people learned what it was they got angry if they had handled it and criticized him for selling it. I told him he could kill people with that thing. He was so stupid and ignorant he couldn't understand what we were talking about. Scary to think of what might have become of that spoon or it's eventual owner.


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## bonefish (Jun 27, 2006)

Would the toxin be in the vines as well? I know it is in the leaves and it's possible, but I don't know how to find out, that the toxin might not be in the wood itself.

I'm not going to chew any of it, or rub the sap on my skin, but it still would be interesting to know if it is safe after it has dried out.


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## Dario (Jun 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by bonefish_
> <br />Would the toxin be in the vines as well? I know it is in the leaves and it's possible, but I don't know how to find out, that the toxin might not be in the wood itself.
> 
> I'm not going to chew any of it, or rub the sap on my skin, but it still would be interesting to know if it is safe after it has dried out.




If I read Jim's post right...seems like the toxins are in the wood and even after they dried.




> _Originally posted by JimQ_
> 
> I hope you weren't including me as having mocked you.
> 
> ...


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## turff49 (Jun 27, 2006)

The poison comes from the oils. It's throughout the whole system not just the leaves. Now, how do you handle it. You use a degreaser like Simple Green. Wash your close in it after handling it.. Now there is a certain time of the year when the oils subside in the growing vines but it's still in the root. I've not tried a Denatured Alcohol bath on it to see if it has any effect. Last year was the first time I've ever had a reaction and it was severe. I normally can pull it and not have any problems. I guess as we get older our tolerances change. I wouldn't worry about it infecting the tree it wraps itself around the oil for some reason doesn't soak in. Now there can be a little topical infection to you though as the oil could just be on the bark. Hope this info helps out some people. Running a large Environmental Construction site we have to cover all the Health and Safety issues. Poison Ivy, Sumac, and Oak are always big topics as our guys are always in the woods.


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## redfishsc (Jun 27, 2006)

I dunno ya'll. How many people on this planet can say that have, much less *made* a pen from poison ivy. I'm sure there's some fruitcake out there that would pay for it (I'd sell it in a plastic case that's CA'd shut!). 

I have no reaction to poison ivy but I would wear a respirator and full face mask during the whole process. I'd also seal it up with the thickest coat of CA finish as possible. And no, I'd NEVER actually sell such an item without requiring the buyer to sign a disclaimer (and a huge price). Would just be neat to have.


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## JimQ (Jun 27, 2006)

Yes!  The oil is in the wood!  It is part of the sap and is retained in the wood.  The leaves are shiny because they have a thin coating of the oil on the surface.

JimQ


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## woodwish (Jun 27, 2006)

I didn't take any of the answers as mocking, I think people on here just have a good sense of humor . . . I have seen some finished PI and it isn't all the pretty to me, more of a novelty I think.  When I was younger it never bothered but as I have gotten older with more exposures I have terrible reactions, so my first thought was that you're crazy.  But after thinking it over I can see that making one would be a rather unique experience, and probably is no crazier than some of the other stuff I have seen on here.

To answer your question I have no idea where to get any PI blanks, but good luck with it.


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## hsingyihsingyi (Jun 28, 2006)

You might try this too.

http://www.susquehannawoodturners.org/Scientific%20Name.htm#b

Later, Jay


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## Rifleman1776 (Jun 28, 2006)

> _Originally posted by bonefish_
> <br />Would the toxin be in the vines as well? I know it is in the leaves and it's possible, but I don't know how to find out, that the toxin might not be in the wood itself.
> 
> I'm not going to chew any of it, or rub the sap on my skin, but it still would be interesting to know if it is safe after it has dried out.



Yes, in the vines. Drying does not eliminate the toxins. Best advice, don't use it for anything.


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## woodpens (Jun 28, 2006)

I spent one of the last 12 months covered in poison ivy rash. All I did was touch a rope I used to drag a small tree that I suspected had poison ivy on it to a burn pile. I immediately washed my upper body just in case I came in contact with it. I was soon covered in busted blisters all over my arms, stomach and legs. I never had any problem with PI as a child. This was a first for me. It also happened to be during the Christmas rush for pen orders. It was pure misery. If I were a judge hearing a case where someone sold a product made of poison ivy, it would be an open & shut case for negligence on the part of the seller. No questions asked.


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## penbros (Jun 28, 2006)

for the sake of safety i just say "forget it!"

No wood is so pretty that you should risk your health


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