# How do you know the fancy watch faces are legit?



## Quality Pen (Oct 13, 2015)

I'm looking at fancy watch faces like Rolex and they are pricey... but I was just curious... are there any ways to tell if they are fake vs genuine? 

It seems like an obvious question, but it's not like these are cheap parts but Rolex is known to be heavily faked. 

Thank you.


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## mecompco (Oct 13, 2015)

That is a great question. And, does it really matter? I was kinda thinking about trying a watch parts pen and on eBay all the Rolex parts were stupid expensive. I totally understand as I've had my SubMariner since '87 and reconditioned it was $750.00 back then. A fake would look just as good on a pen and who cares about how it worked when it was complete?


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## Quality Pen (Oct 13, 2015)

mecompco said:


> That is a great question. And, does it really matter? I was kinda thinking about trying a watch parts pen and on eBay all the Rolex parts were stupid expensive. I totally understand as I've had my SubMariner since '87 and reconditioned it was $750.00 back then. A fake would look just as good on a pen and who cares about how it worked when it was complete?


Frankly I do understand that the actual impact on the pen would be negligible. It would look just as interesting.

However, I do my best to offer a great product and I would not personally want to sell something that had something like a black market feature part.


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## MrKugelschreiber (Oct 13, 2015)

Quality Pen said:


> I'm looking at fancy watch faces like Rolex and they are pricey... but I was just curious... are there any ways to tell if they are fake vs genuine?
> 
> It seems like an obvious question, but it's not like these are cheap parts but Rolex is known to be heavily faked.
> 
> Thank you.



On a fake Rolex the seconds hand has a click in its sweep whereas a real one the seconds hand runs smooth around the dial.  This is what I have been told.


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## jttheclockman (Oct 13, 2015)

Quality Pen said:


> I'm looking at fancy watch faces like Rolex and they are pricey... but I was just curious... are there any ways to tell if they are fake vs genuine?
> 
> It seems like an obvious question, but it's not like these are cheap parts but Rolex is known to be heavily faked.
> 
> Thank you.




Where are you looking at the dials??  Unless you know what a real one looks like you will never know. There are signs such as weight. A real Rolex will weigh more. There are tabs on the edges of a real one and fakes there are none(mens watches) There are symbols on the back of the dial. Unless you have the dial in your hand you can not tell from a photo. Same goes for the entire watch. 

This goes for any highend brand watches. Too many fakes. When a watch dial is cast into a pen no one will ever know. I have said this before here, if you use real watch dials and parts for casting in pens you are silly. You better be getting a couple thousand dollars for the pen. Then if you say you are using a real watch dial but use cheap watch parts you are a fake. You misrepresent the watch and that is fraud. Nine out of 10 times the dial is worth more sold separately than you making a pen from it and selling it. 

I would never use a real highend watch in making a watch pen. 

Also always keep in mind that grey area about using the names of these watch companies without their permission. Now I have never heard of any instances but this has been discussed here before. Especially if you are claiming as genuine.

Good luck and happy turning


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## jttheclockman (Oct 13, 2015)

MrKugelschreiber said:


> Quality Pen said:
> 
> 
> > I'm looking at fancy watch faces like Rolex and they are pricey... but I was just curious... are there any ways to tell if they are fake vs genuine?
> ...



That has been copied also. Unless you are a true watch expert you will not be able to see the difference. The one thing that has truely not been copied to this date is the magnifying window of the date on some of the Rolex watches. Look at a real one and the numbers look 3 times larger. The mineral dials they use is a special formula and I have not seen it copied and not have heard it being copied. But like all things just because the dial may be correct and the lens be correct other parts of the watch can be compromised and that is how they become fakes also. Buyer beware. Buy from a reputable dealer and have watch in hand and serial numbers that can be traced to the Mother Company.


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## TurtleTom (Oct 13, 2015)

It's always nice to have a real clock man around.


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## CREID (Oct 13, 2015)

As far as using fake or genuine. That is up to you, and i'm not questioning your character.  But if a customer thought it was real and later found out it was fake, they just might question and also may tell other people. Personally if you want to use fake parts, be up front and tell them. People use imitation parts for stuff all the time, they just usually declare it. You know, like imitation crab meat in crab cakes.

Curt


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## TurtleTom (Oct 13, 2015)

Lady, you're telling me you bought this $60.00 pen thinking it had $700 worth of parts in it and now you think I cheated you?  Is that about right?


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## CREID (Oct 13, 2015)

TurtleTom said:


> Lady, you're telling me you bought this $60.00 pen thinking it had $700 worth of parts in it and now you think I cheated you?  Is that about right?



Who you callin a Lady?

Curt


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## jttheclockman (Oct 13, 2015)

$700 Rolex???  How many do you have???


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## Smitty37 (Oct 13, 2015)

jttheclockman said:


> Quality Pen said:
> 
> 
> > I'm looking at fancy watch faces like Rolex and they are pricey... but I was just curious... are there any ways to tell if they are fake vs genuine?
> ...


I think CaptG might take umbrage at the suggestion he is using fake parts and passing them off as real.  Genuine High End Watch dials are sold new and they are not cheap.  People who can afford those watches can also afford to have the dial replaced if they get tired of looking at it.  In a case like that they will probably have it done by an authorized Rolex dealer (often a jeweler).  When the dial is replaced, the dial removed is now a used dial for which I suspect there is very little demand and a person could probably buy one pretty cheap.

I don't think anyone selling watches with Rolex dials is claiming that the other parts are genuine Rolex Parts.  I have two CaptG watches that were sold here on the IAP bash auction.  I think the two Rolex and one Franck Mueller watch dials on them are genuine ... I don't think the other gears and parts are represented to be from Rolex or Franck Mueller watches and who would care? a gear looks like a gear and by looks a Timex gears look pretty much the same.


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## Skie_M (Oct 13, 2015)

Think I'll stop by some of the local custom jewelers and see if they have old watch parts floating about untapped ...


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## jttheclockman (Oct 14, 2015)

Smitty37 said:


> jttheclockman said:
> 
> 
> > Quality Pen said:
> ...




Smitty as usual you can believe what you want. I posted MY thoughts.  Even if a used Rolex dial is used it still valuable and can command $$$ Using your own words. A real Rolex dial looks like a fake Rolex dial who cares then??? If the gears do not matter.
I do not know what Capt G is selling or making and I really do not care or anyone else for that matter.There are plenty of people making them.  I can make the same watch that anyone makes and use fake parts and you would not know the difference by looking at them. Now if you start using dials with real diamonds in them that would be a dead give away. I do not know what people are claiming they make their watch part pens from. I posted my thoughts on the subject. In my mind if you put a real dial and put fake parts then what are you selling???  A half breed watch. This is all I am saying. People can do whatever they want. Go for it.


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## Smitty37 (Oct 14, 2015)

jttheclockman said:


> Smitty37 said:
> 
> 
> > jttheclockman said:
> ...


Come On JT, if some one making a pen blank from watch parts they are NOT selling a watch at all, they are selling a pen blank. Nor does anyone I know of making pen blanks from watch parts claim to be selling a watch.  I said there are legitimate sources for genuine used Rolex watch dials. Read your own post - YOU said anyone who uses them is committing fraud one way or another because someone COULD use a fake dial and claim it's real.  Well I don't stop using $20 bills because someone can counterfeit them and someday I might get stuck....so far I have not.


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## jttheclockman (Oct 14, 2015)

Smitty here you go again and boy do I hate this sh----. I guess whatever I say must **** you off to no end. I stand by what I said. 


Come On JT, if some one making a pen blank from watch parts they are NOT  selling a watch at all, they are selling a pen blank. Nor does anyone I  know of making pen blanks from watch parts claim to be selling a watch.   I said there are legitimate sources for genuine used Rolex watch  dials. Read your own post - YOU said anyone who uses them is committing  fraud one way or another because someone COULD use a fake dial and claim  it's real.  Well I don't stop using $20 bills because someone can  counterfeit them and someday I might get stuck....so far I have not. 

No where did I say you were selling a watch did I????? If you are claiming the blank is made from a Rolex watch then it better have rolex parts. Now if you are claiming that just the watch dial is a real Rolex dial such as what CaptG does then there is no argument. 

People are under the assumption you are selling them a blank that is made from watch parts unless you advertise as something else such as a gear blank

I know Smitty there are sources for both and in fact do you want to buy some???  I have about 300 fake ones if you want. I have some Cartier ones that are real nice too. Now if someone claims that the dial is real and it is fake, YOU DO NOT THINK THAT IS FRAUD. Man you are thick. Don't start putting words in my mouth. This is how you start these wars. I do not want this. I gave my opinion to the OP and that is that. Go fight with Ed.


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## Skie_M (Oct 14, 2015)

Hate to throw more nitroglycerin on the fire, but if I said I was selling a pen blank made with REAL ROLEX PARTS and handed over a blank that contained a fake rolex watch face, a bunch of random gears and bits along with a few genuine rolex gears, would you still say you got scammed?

I'ld be perfectly within my rights to do it, as long as you were duly notified that most of the parts are not genuine.

Would you be able to tell the difference, as to which parts are really rolex and which are not?  Would your customers even care, as long as it looks good?

I know I've seen a few very nice watch parts pens right here at the IAP that tout genuine parts, but they ALSO CONTAINED RANDOM EXTRA PARTS FROM OTHER THINGS TO FILL UP THE EXTRA SPACE.  Are you guys gonna go hunt those penmakers down and tell them that they're scamming?  Do we really care, since they look great?  Did their customers care about the non-genuine parts?


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## TurtleTom (Oct 14, 2015)

Egads, I hope I didn't start this.  I didn't did I?


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## Smitty37 (Oct 14, 2015)

jttheclockman said:


> *Smitty here you go again and boy do I hate this sh----. I guess whatever I say must **** you off to no end. *I stand by what I said.
> 
> 
> Come On JT, if some one making a pen blank from watch parts they are NOT  selling a watch at all, they are selling a pen blank. Nor does anyone I  know of making pen blanks from watch parts claim to be selling a watch.   I said there are legitimate sources for genuine used Rolex watch  dials. Read your own post - YOU said anyone who uses them is committing  fraud one way or another because someone COULD use a fake dial and claim  it's real.  Well I don't stop using $20 bills because someone can  counterfeit them and someday I might get stuck....so far I have not.
> ...


That JT is what starts wars. Making it personal.  I don't call you names JT and I don't tell you you're thick. I also stand by what you said. " You misrepresent the watch and that is fraud."


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## TurtleTom (Oct 14, 2015)

*Sometimes it's not so nice.*



jttheclockman said:


> $700 Rolex???  How many do you have???



  None, Ostentatious is definitely not me, try sundial.
  I guessed at the value of a used, beat up Rolex face.  Can I change my post where I said "It's nice having a real clock man around"?  (Big Grin)  (I have to type these in here as my smilies have all disappeared)


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## healeydays (Oct 14, 2015)

Ok guys, deep breath and lets just talk about dials and not try to get under each other's skins.

  This is a subject I have been interested in for awhile.  I love making watch blanks, but can't justify megabucks dial faces.  Would love to find that occasional high end face for a manageable price.

Mike B


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## thewishman (Oct 14, 2015)

When I sell a pen with a real watch dial, I always make sure that the customer knows that the dial is genuine and the parts and gears are not. 

Please be careful throwing around people's names. CaptG is a man of integrity and honor - he *DOES NOT* make false claims about his watch dials and parts.

*I am not saying that anyone has impinged his honor, just that readers skimming this thread may not take the time to fully understand what is being said.*


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## Smitty37 (Oct 14, 2015)

thewishman said:


> When I sell a pen with a real watch dial, I always make sure that the customer knows that the dial is genuine and the parts and gears are not.
> 
> Please be careful throwing around people's names. CaptG is a man of integrity and honor - he *DOES NOT* make false claims about his watch dials and parts.
> 
> *I am not saying that anyone has impinged his honor, just that readers skimming this thread may not take the time to fully understand what is being said.*


 I have purchased two sets of CaptG's watch part pen blanks which he turned into pens for me as well.  I also had him make a blank and turn a pen made from my fathers Benrus watch.  I certainly did not imply in any of my posts that he was not a man of integrity.


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## hcpens (Oct 14, 2015)

OK, just make sure that the second hand runs without a click when the pen is completed.


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## Smitty37 (Oct 14, 2015)

healeydays said:


> Ok guys, deep breath and lets just talk about dials and not try to get under each other's skins.
> 
> This is a subject I have been interested in for awhile.  I love making watch blanks, but can't justify megabucks dial faces.  Would love to find that occasional high end face for a manageable price.
> 
> Mike B


I seem to remember Gary saying that his source was a jeweler who was a authorized dealer for several high end watch companies.  I could be wrong about that but that's where I would look first.


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## Smitty37 (Oct 14, 2015)

hcpens said:


> OK, just make sure that the second hand runs without a click when the pen is completed.


 Hmmmmm only only one of my Rolex dial pens has hands in place and that one doesn't have the second hand.....I do have another watch parts pen that the face says "Korea" with a second hand in place though.  Unfortunately the time is correct only twice a day.  Maybe the blank is missing a part or two....:biggrin:


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## OKLAHOMAN (Oct 14, 2015)

One of the reasons that most if not all high end REAL faces that are made into pens do not have hands is that the hands themselves cost  anywhere from $30 each up to over $100. So if your making a blank and using a real face you would leave the hands off, that is why Capt G's blanks come without hands 90% of the time. Also no blanks that I know of use the high end watch part gears and I haven't seen anyone claim that the blanks contain real gears from the same watch as the face.


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## jttheclockman (Oct 14, 2015)

Maybe things have calmed down somewhat so I will again try to add some  of my pointers. I stress I am not a watch maker or a jeweler or any kind  of expert. Take the info that I am posting with whatever truth or  reverence you so choose.

As far as buying real Rolex dials or any real watch parts weather used  or new, a reputable jeweler will be a very good source. Maybe you have a  friend who is one or knows one. When people bring older watches in for  repairs it is customary for the jeweler to order the parts and exchange.  They usually will return the broken or replaced parts to you. If not  you can request them. Maybe they have a refurbished part that they can  replace with. But all this should be upfront and legit. 

They may and not always the case have parts that they are willing to  sell to you. Again how well you know the people can make this all a mute  point. Also a source would be Ebay. Yes Ebay. The people selling  highend watches and watch parts there are being observed all the time. I  have seen ads pulled down due to misrepresentation of the real thing.  They have rules. 

With that being said I will borrow a few photos of an ad and point out a  few things to look for in a Rolex dial. Now again these are my thoughts  and points and these are not the only things that can help. 

The first thing is look at the famous crown. I will only state things  that are found on a real one. The crown is a raised emblem and has  depth. The points are all centered on the top balls. The points are all  spaced evenly with the center one lined up with the center of the  12'oclock position. There is sharpness and crispness to the cutout of  the emblem and no slag anywhere.  The name of the watch is raised  letters and again has depth. The hour markers are all the same  thickness, same length, same position in reference to the hour slash or  in this case dots. The Swiss T writing is seen centered on the 6'oclock  hour. letters are spaced the same. The cut of the dial is percise and  clean and the radiant effect used is constant throughout the dial. 


I have to try something else with the photos because they were too large. Thus the editing. Sorry.


http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/TjMAAOSwo0JWGOlv/s-l1600.jpg


http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/ER4AAOSw~bFWGOlh/s-l1600.jpg


http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/d0gAAOSw14xWGOlz/s-l1600.jpg


The side photo show the thickness of the dial which is also key. If you could hold the dial in your hand you will feel the weight and heftness.

The back of the watch shows the tabs or stand off feet. They show the serial numbers and names stamped and not engraved. Those can be checked in a Rolex data base.

Again I emphasis I am no expert and my intention is not to explain what is real and fake. These are a few pointers. there are so many fakes that even the pros have a hard time telling unless they really dissect the watch. My point in all this was to explain my point of view with these blanks or pens and that is be fair to the customer. If you use real Rolex parts then tell them but if you use fake ones be honest to them and do not pass off as real. And then charge prices accordingly.


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## Smitty37 (Oct 14, 2015)

OKLAHOMAN said:


> One of the reasons that most if not all high end REAL faces that are made into pens do not have hands is that the hands themselves cost  anywhere from $30 each up to over $100. So if your making a blank and using a real face you would leave the hands off, that is why Capt G's blanks come without hands 90% of the time. Also no blanks that I know of use the high end watch part gears and *I haven't seen anyone claim that the blanks contain real gears from the same watch as the face*.


Nor have I.


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## jttheclockman (Oct 14, 2015)

Nor have I but i have not seen everyones watch part pens and their sales techniques.


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## edstreet (Oct 14, 2015)

So let me get this straight.  some are complaining about authentic watch parts when used on a stolen/copied pen tube design??  If one is being copied then what does it matter if the other one is as well?


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## Skie_M (Oct 14, 2015)

Smitty37 said:


> OKLAHOMAN said:
> 
> 
> > One of the reasons that most if not all high end REAL faces that are made into pens do not have hands is that the hands themselves cost  anywhere from $30 each up to over $100. So if your making a blank and using a real face you would leave the hands off, that is why Capt G's blanks come without hands 90% of the time. Also no blanks that I know of use the high end watch part gears and *I haven't seen anyone claim that the blanks contain real gears from the same watch as the face*.
> ...



This Thread by LadyCop shows a mickey mouse watch pen blank.  The dial and hands are, of course, authentic, but it's mentioned that there are extra parts from other things added in to fill in the space.


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## Smitty37 (Oct 14, 2015)

jttheclockman said:


> Maybe things have calmed down somewhat so I will again try to add some  of my pointers. I stress I am not a watch maker or a jeweler or any kind  of expert. Take the info that I am posting with whatever truth or  reverence you so choose.
> 
> As far as buying real Rolex dials or any real watch parts weather used  or new, a reputable jeweler will be a very good source. Maybe you have a  friend who is one or knows one. When people bring older watches in for  repairs it is customary for the jeweler to order the parts and exchange.  They usually will return the broken or replaced parts to you. If not  you can request them. Maybe they have a refurbished part that they can  replace with. But all this should be upfront and legit.
> 
> ...


Thank you JT this is useful information well presented.  I will make this note - I looked closely under magnification at the dials on my CaptG pens.  They show every thing you mention and while this might not always be the case on my pens you can see the thickness of the dial the edges are visable, you can also see that there is depth in the date window opening.


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## healeydays (Oct 14, 2015)

Ok, just to be straight with the blanks I have been making and plan to offer at some time, all my parts came from watches.

  Now, did they all come from the same watch as the dial came from?  No they did not.  Here's my story.  I needed watch parts for a line of pens I was planning on doing, so I went onto Ebay and bought a lot of 1200 non functioning watches.  Yes folks, I said 1200!  My wife thought I was nuts and after disassembling about 200, I thought so too, but I now have bags of parts to make the blanks from.  

  As for the dials, I go to alot of auctions, and I bought a jeweler's collection of unused dials all from European 2nd tier manufacturers mostly Swiss and French.  There was well over 400 dials and some watch brands I have never heard of.

  Would I like a source for high end dials at a reasonable price you bet, but I guess I'll stick with what I have with an occasional Betty Boop or Space Cadet dial thrown in.

Mike B


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## jttheclockman (Oct 14, 2015)

healeydays said:


> Ok, just to be straight with the blanks I have been making and plan to offer at some time, all my parts came from watches.
> 
> Now, did they all come from the same watch as the dial came from?  No they did not.  Here's my story.  I needed watch parts for a line of pens I was planning on doing, so I went onto Ebay and bought a lot of 1200 non functioning watches.  Yes folks, I said 1200!  My wife thought I was nuts and after disassembling about 200, I thought so too, but I now have bags of parts to make the blanks from.
> 
> ...



Mike

You are perfectly fine. That is how many people do it. By the way I have wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy more than that. You call it a watch part pen. No specifics. 

Just a side note and again it is my opinion. I believe that that concept (watch part pens)has played out and needs revisions. There are so many ideas you can do with it. I sure hope I am able to get back in my shop next year. I have some ideas I want to try with this concept and take it in a different direction.


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## SteveG (Oct 14, 2015)

jttheclockman said:


> ... I have some ideas I want to try with this concept and take it in a different direction.



TEASE!!:tongue:


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## jttheclockman (Oct 14, 2015)

SteveG said:


> jttheclockman said:
> 
> 
> > ... I have some ideas I want to try with this concept and take it in a different direction.
> ...




Oh yea. I have had basically almost 1-1/2 years away from my shop due to health reasons and one way or other i plan on returning next year. In that time I had much free time to plan and acquire materials and ideas for many new pen blank designs. Now if any or all work out remains to be seen. All I can say is stay tuned.:biggrin:


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## Smitty37 (Oct 14, 2015)

healeydays said:


> Ok, just to be straight with the blanks I have been making and plan to offer at some time, all my parts came from watches.
> 
> Now, did they all come from the same watch as the dial came from?  No they did not.  Here's my story.  I needed watch parts for a line of pens I was planning on doing, so I went onto Ebay and bought a lot of 1200 non functioning watches.  Yes folks, I said 1200!  My wife thought I was nuts and after disassembling about 200, I thought so too, but I now have bags of parts to make the blanks from.
> 
> ...


A well known but not expensive Jeweler chain had their own brand watches.  They were made by one of the well known brands and the only thing different according to a franchise owner who sold me one was the dial which had the jewelers name on it.


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## healeydays (Oct 14, 2015)

LOL

Hi John,

        You and I haven't dealt with each other here much or you'd know I don't take may things like this too seriously and if someone would be hung up on what watchmaker's gear was on my pen, well he's probably not buying mine anyways...

As I say in my tagline:  Life is too short to sweat the small things...
Mike B



jttheclockman said:


> healeydays said:
> 
> 
> > Ok, just to be straight with the blanks I have been making and plan to offer at some time, all my parts came from watches.
> ...


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## BSea (Oct 14, 2015)

hcpens said:


> OK, just make sure that the second hand runs without a click when the pen is completed.


So you're saying that you can't make a click pen with a Rolex? :biggrin:

I know someone posted a long clicker watch pen.  I just don't remember if it was a Rolex or not.


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## pianomanpj (Oct 14, 2015)

healeydays said:


> LOL
> 
> Hi John,
> 
> ...



*Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things... *


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## jttheclockman (Oct 15, 2015)

As I say in my tagline:  Life is too short to sweat the small things...
Mike B


Amen to that. I hope everyone here makes some watch part pens. Love to see them all.


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