# closed ends with a 7mm mandrel



## mickr (Jan 4, 2010)

Awhile back I had a post saying the blue closed end pen pen was made on a 7mm mandrel..a person asked how that could be done..I said I would explain after the new year..but I just got an order for 4 shaker rockers and have no time to turn a new pen and take pictures...but I will show 2 pens on this post...the desert ironwood was turned on a closed end mandrel in the normal way...the blue pen was turned on a 7mm mandrel in the normal way (except no end bushing) ..you'll see if you "think outside the box" that there really is no difference in the pens except a piece .250x1/16" or so....to me both can be called closed end...good luck:wink:


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## jleiwig (Jan 4, 2010)

Plugged end may be a better term for your pens than closed end, but either way they are nice pens.


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## Rmartin (Jan 4, 2010)

A closed end can be made with a mandrel, but I would call yours a filled end.


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## mickr (Jan 4, 2010)

why would one call the blue one a filled end, while the brown one done on a closed end mandrel is a closed end?  A closed end pen is one without hardware??? They are virtually the same except the brown one has a shallow tan insert...the insert in the blue is just a 16th deeper...lingo here is the culprit...we can call them anything we want based on criteria we each choose..but to the customer eye they are the same..and this is easier for newbies or people without $ for closed end mandrels to achieve..one can do any pen..not just ones that arizona silhouette has a size for...or one can grind down a "mandrel" for...(in IAP library)  This whole concept came from a repair and I think it has merit...no extra $  no grinding bolts..SIMPLE...


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## jleiwig (Jan 4, 2010)

mickr said:


> why would one call the blue one a filled end, while the brown one done on a closed end mandrel is a closed end?


 
I call them both plugged end pens as previously stated, not closed ends.

Nothing wrong with that if that's what you want to do, but I definitely wouldn't call them close end pens. By definition that is not correct since at one point the end was open and has been filled with a different material. 

Since your the maker of the pen you get to call it whatever you want, that's the beauty of pen turning.  To each their own! :biggrin:


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## jimbob91577 (Jan 4, 2010)

I call them gorgeous!


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## mickr (Jan 4, 2010)

jleiwig said:


> I call them both plugged end pens as previously stated, not closed ends.
> 
> Nothing wrong with that if that's what you want to do, but I definitely wouldn't call them close end pens. By definition that is not correct since at one point the end was open and has been filled with a different material.
> 
> Since your the maker of the pen you get to call it whatever you want, that's the beauty of pen turning. To each their own! :biggrin:


  :biggrin:You've have missed  small nit pick here..the brown one done on a closed end mandrel and enough brown was left to inlay a piece without breaking into the drilled cavity for the brass tube..therefore it is not a plug...the blue one is a plug as it is drilled thru to the cavity...difference between the 2 pens is .250 of material ...No customer knows the difference or cares..and again no special madrels, bolt grinding etc....


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## mickr (Jan 4, 2010)

jimbob91577 said:


> I call them gorgeous!


  Thanks Jimbo


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## mtgrizzly52 (Jan 5, 2010)

I don't care what you call them, they are both beautifully done and I'd be proud to own either one of them. Some times we get too wrapped up in definition and terminology and forget the talent of the person who created such lovely pens.

Rick (mtgrizzly52)


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## RAdams (Jan 5, 2010)

They are both nice no doubt. 

But what if you thought of it from the other side. Even though one of these pens was made on a "Closed End Mandrel", They both seem to have a "plug" in the bottom. The customer would have no idea that one is a true closed end and one is plugged. They both APPEAR to be plugged. 


I am a bit confused though. I make ALOT of closed end pens, In fact i would exclusively make closed end if i could sell them all. 

Every closed end pen i make is on a standard 7MM mandrel. I think the bolt shaving technique you speak of is outdated. Since i learned to make closed end pens on the regular mandrel, I have done away with the shaved bolts. You can make pretty much any closed end pen on a mandrel. The "Tactical" pen i just posted is a 10mm tube with a cigar nib. One piece, CLOSED END. I made it with the standard pro mandrel, and a Cigar bushing.  I believe the tutorial is on Don's website but not for sure.


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## RAdams (Jan 5, 2010)

FYI:


The 7MM mandrel closed end technique that i use...


Drill a 1/4" hole deep enough for the refill. Drill the tube hole (7MM, 10MM or whatever) deep enough for the tube. Glue the tube and true the blank. Shorten the mandrel to just long enough to go in the 1/4" hole and have room for the bushing in the open end. Pull tailstock up for support. Turn, sand, and finish all but the very end where the tail is at... Tape the sanded barrell to the mandrel and remove the tailstock. Clean up the closed end, sand and polish. Remove, and assemble. 


True closed end pen with no special bolts, mandrels, plugs, or other weird tools. All you need is a mandrel, and bushings!  It is so easy, even I can do it!


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## mickr (Jan 5, 2010)

appreciate everyone's imput..The post seems to have taken a turn, but it was a good turn..I was attempting to say a closed end pen could be made in a "new way" than had been shown on this forum..that anyone could make one on a 7mm mandrel..no homemade mandrel.. and not like in Woodturning Design Magazine a couple years ago...I had never seen it done this way & I wanted to "pass a new SIMPLE concept on" I attempted to show a classic closed end (the brown, made on a closed end mandrel, with an inlay in the end to match the cap end) vs. (what we could call) a "plugged closed end"(the blue one)  If one held both in their hands, one could not determine which was which.SO, the method to get there was a "new" method & quite valid... I hope this helps people who just want to make a few closed end pens and not have to invest in closed end mandrels, or homemade wood ones with o-rings, etc...there's many way to skin a cat and this just seemed a new concept on how to do it


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## mickr (Jan 5, 2010)

RAdams said:


> FYI:
> 
> 
> The 7MM mandrel closed end technique that i use...
> ...


  I think I understand your method and it seems easy too..why not post this before?  I don't believe it has appeared here, has it?  I think people love closed ends and find that figuring out a way is difficult..you have figured out a way and I have too, so now others can give it a try


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## rstought (Jan 5, 2010)

Here is a link to another 7mm mandrel solution:

http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=40199&highlight=Closed+end+pen+mandrel

This is not my idea, but I have used it with great success...


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## RAdams (Jan 5, 2010)

mickr said:


> I think I understand your method and it seems easy too..why not post this before? I don't believe it has appeared here, has it? I think people love closed ends and find that figuring out a way is difficult..you have figured out a way and I have too, so now others can give it a try


 


Actually, I learned this technique from here. Don (AKA ItsVirgil (i think)) has it on his website. redriverpens or something similar. I think that is where i learned it anyway. 

That is why i said that i thought the bolt technique was outdated. It is indeed a way to do it, But if you have the adjustable mandrel, Or if you are somewhat handy, you could use the HF punch set and a jacobs chuck or even just the punch set and a scroll chuck. There are ways to do closed end that are very simple. Almost as simple as doing a factory pen.  

I started with the shaved bolt technique. I used it once or twice, and then learned this way. It is super simple, needs no special gear, and is safe and fun. I will stick with this technique until something better comes up. A "between centers" bushing for it might be REALLY slick!!


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## wolftat (Jan 5, 2010)

I see what you're doing Mick and I think it's great, they look fantastic. Any new idea is going to meet opposition in the beginning, keep building on it. I'm looking forward to seeing the rockers when you get them done.


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## Glass Scratcher (Jan 5, 2010)

I like it!  It brings a bit of class by having a contrasting color.  Kinda reminds me of those bigboys Mont B...


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## its_virgil (Jan 5, 2010)

Whatever it is finally called it is a nice pen. I actually like the black plug in the end of the blue one. And, a very clever idea. ...very clever. Ane yes, cats have been skinned in several different ways and the end product is always a skinned cat...or in this case a closed end pen.
Do a good turn daily!
Don



mickr said:


> appreciate everyone's imput..The post seems to have taken a turn, but it was a good turn..I was attempting to say a closed end pen could be made in a "new way" than had been shown on this forum..that anyone could make one on a 7mm mandrel..no homemade mandrel.. and not like in Woodturning Design Magazine a couple years ago...I had never seen it done this way & I wanted to "pass a new SIMPLE concept on" I attempted to show a classic closed end (the brown, made on a closed end mandrel, with an inlay in the end to match the cap end) vs. (what we could call) a "plugged closed end"(the blue one)  If one held both in their hands, one could not determine which was which.SO, the method to get there was a "new" method & quite valid... I hope this helps people who just want to make a few closed end pens and not have to invest in closed end mandrels, or homemade wood ones with o-rings, etc...there's many way to skin a cat and this just seemed a new concept on how to do it


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## its_virgil (Jan 5, 2010)

I've done demonstrations on closed end pens at both symposiums and at club meetings. The techniques I cover in these demos can be found at http://www.RedRiverPens.com/articles   There are two articles, part one and part two. I always make the pen using the alternative method I show using just a 7mm mandrel, a bushing for the kit I'm making and blue painters tape. Take a look....
Do a good turn daily!
Don


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## DozerMite (Jan 5, 2010)

RAdams said:


> Actually, I learned this technique from here. Don (AKA ItsVirgil (i think)) has it on his website. redriverpens or something similar. I think that is where i learned it anyway.
> 
> That is why i said that i thought the bolt technique was outdated. It is indeed a way to do it, But if you have the adjustable mandrel, Or if you are somewhat handy, you could use the HF punch set and a jacobs chuck or even just the punch set and a scroll chuck. There are ways to do closed end that are very simple. Almost as simple as doing a factory pen.
> 
> I started with the shaved bolt technique. I used it once or twice, and then learned this way. It is super simple, needs no special gear, and is safe and fun. I will stick with this technique until something better comes up. A "between centers" bushing for it might be REALLY slick!!


 


I did one this way and it's important to get the live center in the exact center of the blank or it throws the square end off. Thus giving a lop-sided pen.


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## Hosspen (Jan 5, 2010)

Both are very nice! Do you have any pictures of the Shaker Rockers you make? It sounds very interesting.


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## mickr (Jan 6, 2010)

Hosspen said:


> Both are very nice! Do you have any pictures of the Shaker Rockers you make? It sounds very interesting.


  At present, I believe there may be one or two shots of my chairs in my gallery here at IAP..


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## mickr (Jan 6, 2010)

wolftat said:


> I see what you're doing Mick and I think it's great, they look fantastic. Any new idea is going to meet opposition in the beginning, keep building on it. I'm looking forward to seeing the rockers when you get them done.


  Thanks for your imput, and yes I am jealous your voices won't talk to me!


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## arioux (Jan 9, 2010)

Hi,

Great pen and great idea. Thanks for sharing.

For those intrrested,  Russ Fairfield (my all time mentor!) have on his site a way of doing a closed end with a 7 mm mandrel.   Look at his long line pen .  The concept can be applied to any pen model as far as i'm concern.  I use it for my dip pen as well.

http://www.woodturnerruss.com/Pen10.html

Alfred


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## KDM (Mar 29, 2010)

I think this is a closed end pen. Made on a 7mm mandrel BEFORE inserting the brass tubes. 7mm is a nice tight fit in a 7mm hole. I have a 6.5mm mandrel which I use if I'm turning after the tubes are in place.

I happened across your thread when I was looking for how to do closed end pens and I didn't find what I was looing for. mickr, don't get me wrong - the pens are lovely and I really like the idea of the white (contrasting) plug, but I don't see the difference between your pens and pens that are drilled all the way through and plugged with a piece of brass.

For me a closed end pen is one where the end has never been opened! Maybe this is one for the terminology nerds to sort out? Heh heh.

Having said that, I'm off to see what an oak plug looks like in a mahogany turning...!


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