# SCHOOL  -- 1957 vs. 2007



## kent4Him (May 1, 2008)

*SCHOOL  -- 1957 vs. 2007*

Scenario : Jack goes quail hunting before school, pulls into school parking lot with shotgun in gun rack.
1957 - Vice Principal comes over, looks at Jack's shotgun, goes to his car and gets his shotgun to show Jack.
2007 - School goes into lock down, FBI called, Jack hauled off to jail and never sees his truck or gun again. Counselors called in for traumatized students and teachers.  

Scenario:  Johnny and Mark get into a fistfight after school.
1957 - Crowd gathers. Mark wins. Johnny and Mark shake hands and end up buddies.
2007 - Police called, SWAT team arrives, arrests Johnny and Mark. Charge them with assault, both expelled even though Johnny started it.  

Scenario:  Jeffrey won't be still in class, disrupts other students.1957 - Jeffrey sent to office and given a good paddling by the Principal. Returns to class, sits still and does not disrupt class again.
2007 - Jeffrey given huge doses of Ritalin. Becomes a zombie. Tested for ADD.. School gets extra money from state because Jeffrey has a disability.  

Scenario:  Billy breaks a window in his neighbor's car and his Dad gives him a whipping with his belt.1957 - Billy is more careful next time, grows up normal, goes to college, and becomes a successful businessman.
2007 - Billy's dad is arrested for child abuse.  Billy removed to foster care and joins a gang.  State psychologist tells Billy's sister that she remembers being abused herself and their dad goes to prison.  Billy's mom has affair with psychologist.  

Scenario:  Mark gets a headache and takes some aspirin to school .1957 - Mark shares aspirin with Principal out on the smoking dock.
2007 - Police called, Mark expelled from school for drug violations. Car searched for drugs and weapons.  

Scenario :  Pedro fails high school English.1957 - Pedro goes to summer school, passes English, goes to college.
2007 - Pedro's cause is taken up by state. Newspaper articles appear nationally explaining that teaching English as a requirement for graduation is racist. ACLU files class action lawsuit against state school system and Pedro's English teacher.  English banned from core curriculum.  Pedro given diploma anyway but ends up mowing lawns for a living because he cannot speak English.  

Scenario:  Johnny takes apart leftover firecrackers from 4th of July, puts them in a model airplane paint bottle, blows up a red ant bed.1957 - Ants die.
2007 - BATF, Homeland Security, FBI called. Johnny charged with  domestic terrorism, FBI investigates parents, siblings removed from home, computers confiscated, Johnny's Dad goes on a terror watch list and is never allowed to fly again. 

Scenario:  Johnny falls while running during recess and scrapes his knee. He is found crying by his teacher, Mary.  Mary hugs him to comfort him.1957 - In a short time, Johnny feels better and goes on playing.
2007 - Mary is accused of being a sexual predator and loses her job. She faces 3 years in State Prison. Johnny undergoes 5 years of therapy .


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## Firefyter-emt (May 1, 2008)

Did you hear the news about the teacher who is sueing her class with a "class action" law suit because they laughed at her and for "intolerance of ideas" when a student disagreed with her.

No, I am serious... http://www.ivygateblog.com/blog/2008/04/
putting_the_class_in_class_action_also_the_attentionseeking_bookselling_passiveaggressive_trainwreck_in_professor.html


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## PaulDoug (May 1, 2008)

So sad, but so true.   I really feel sorry for the kids of today.


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## rherrell (May 1, 2008)

We used to have fights in the park after school and half the school would show up. The fight lasted until somebody started getting hurt and the losers buddies would jump in and stop it. The next day everybody was friends again. These were real fist fights too, we didn't even THINK about using weapons. Ah, the good 'ol days!


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## tipusnr (May 1, 2008)

My wife is a music teacher and I have qualified to teach under the "Troops to Teachers" program but couldn't get a job interview because I couldn't quit my job to interview (not the whole story but it is the core truth of it).

My wife tells me almost daily of the stupid crap and lack of control by parents and administrators over today's students and I makes me want to cry.  I constantly wonder at how good students get as far as they do in that environment when unruly and so called "special needs" students get more attention and privileges than they do.

If your children are some of those that DO go to school to learn academics, sportsmanship, and citizenship...take time to let them know that you appreciate it.  And then thank them for me!


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## SuperDave (May 1, 2008)

Too true.

The parents are as much to blame as the system that fosters these disconnected philosophies.


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## DocStram (May 1, 2008)

There are others here in IAP who are also educators.  I hope they add their two cents worth to this thread.  Here's my take on it.  

I've been either a teacher or teacher educator for the last 38 years. My specialty is Special Education - Learning Disabilities, Emotional Disorders and ADD. Although I "teach teachers" at a university, I'm also out in the public schools all the time.  I have a pretty good picture of what's wrong with the schools.  The problem is .... us.  You and me.  Society.  

Teachers don't get to teach anymore. They're under the constant pressure of bureaucrats forcing them to give a constant barrage of meaningless, high stakes, standardized tests.  Everything you teach is dictated by what is going to be on the test. No Child Left Behind is a disastrous piece of legislation. Kids aren't being left behind ... they're being pushed aside.

Your shot at kids with ADD is especially disheartening.  Fifty years ago most children with disabilities were excluded from a public education. It took a group of parents of mentally retarded children to sue the State of Pennsylvania (1971) to get their kids into school.  How would you like having your child barred from going to school just because he/she has a disability? 

Want to hear some other reasons why our schools are in trouble?  How about the divorce rate?  What about both parents working and not having time to spend with their child?  Or, maybe another reason is that teachers in many systems are forced to supervise their students at lunch, or have bus duty, or monitor the halls?  Those are all hours that the teacher could be planning or collaborating with other teachers.

By the way, my wife is a teacher. Today was a typical school day for her. Want to hear her schedule?  She left for school at 6:30AM.  She got home from school at 7:00PM.   It's almost 10:30 .... want to know what she's doing right now? Grading papers and writing lesson plans.

Do I sound like I'm sick and tired of people taking cheap shots at our schools?  Damn right I am.


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## fiferb (May 1, 2008)

My wife left for school yesterday at 6:30 AM. She had to work on a blood drive after school. She then came home at 8:00 PM and had to work on two IEP's (Individual Education Plans) that had to be done by today because it is the law to do them once each year and can't be late by one day. She was up until after 1:00 AM last night, got up at 5:30 to go to school and upload them into to the computer early. Today she was home by 8:30 PM after her after school meetings with parents for the IEP's and having to submit grades that are due tomorrow. This is a typical work week and she usually works through the weekend as well. This is her first year of teaching so she is learning as she goes but it is still way too much work for one person.[V]

They don't pay her enough.


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## DocStram (May 1, 2008)

And another thing ... we gotta get our schools on track before that new grandbaby gets to Pre-K.  Right, Bruce??


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## karlkuehn (May 2, 2008)

I, for one, really enjoyed reading this little 'slice of life'. This post is going to run real long, just like any of my posts where I have a conviction, and I want to be crystal clear about where I stand. Someday soon I'll have a blog set up where I can spill this stuff into so people can read it if they want.

If it's too long, take your little pill and skip to another post where things are more modern - where you aren't required to actually kick your brain into actual motion to participate in a discussion. 'Instant gratification' rears its ugly head most prominently on the Internet, where everything moves so fast that the collective intelligence becomes not the few who speak what they have to say, but the many who flit around like hummingbirds sucking non-sustaining sugar water out of so many available sources daily. Those little birds get fed with the superficial energy they require, but if they had to go for more than fifteen minutes without that short lived nectar, the little buggers would drop like rocks.

1957 is a little early for me. I was born in 1970, but I was lucky enough to have a couple of parents who were raised with those same small town methods of raising children. Even in 1982, when 'little Karl' got in trouble for something, I was punished with the 1957 outlook on discipline.

Setting aside the goofiness that you all see me portray here on the forums, I have a deep respect for my elders, God, and my country, and I have a serious side under there somewhere. 

I did the best I could with my own kids (who are now 15 and 13 years old) to follow that same method, and we've been complimented all through their childhood on how well behaved our kids are. There were things in my childhood that I didn't pass on to my kids (just google - "now, go cut a switch" and you'll get the gist). heh

After becoming a parent, there was an idea that I talked with my wife about on many occasions, and it didn't just pertain to parenthood. It was an idea that was 'whupped' into me by my parents at an early age, and I've since applied to my life. 

That idea is summed up just so: When given a situation where you have to make a choice to determine the outcome, taking the toughest/hardest/least-comfortable option is almost always the right one, pretty much all the time.

Al, I appreciate your stance (and your wife's) on this, and not only sympathize, but I also feel for the way your hands have become increasingly tied over the past few decades.

Teachers are screwed today. Enough said. Looking back on the teachers that I had, all I remember is a bunch of tough men and women who only had my best interest at heart, and while there were times when they made me 'uncomfortable', they also gave me the 'black and white' of learning to discipline myself. I learned to 'whup' myself, in later years, when I did (er, do...I still blow it a lot) something wrong. It keeps me moving forward in a positive manner, and it takes the pressure off me, just like my parents did. It's amazing how having a good black and white set of rules allows you so much freedom. I know good, and I know bad, and the gray in between? I just ignore it. The gray is what leads to Enron, it's what leads to Hitler, it's what leads to where America is going. What do we have to choose from in our next election? Another morally corrupt Clinton? Obama, who, from what I hear, refuses to say the Pledge of Allegience? McCain - Another money grubbing 'morally correct' Republican? Phoosh. Okay, I know, no politics...

You know, my dad would wake my brother and I up at 6:00 a.m. on Saturday to go up and get firewood, just about every other week. We worked our asses off, sweating, hauling slivery wood by the cord into the truck, where we'd chuck it out of into a pile on Saturday evening in the driveway (and front yard too, if we had a good day hunting wood).

Then we'd move it into the back yard an armload at a time, stacking it up row by row. By the time Saturday evening came around, we were exhausted. We were also stronger and tougher than most all the other kids in our neighborhood who spent their days inside playing their Ataris and learning how to perpetuate the video-based generation that we have to suffer through every day. Most of the 'successful' people I know can't change their own oil. They can't pull their bicycles out of the shed in the spring and get them ready for the summer's riding. If they even have or ride bikes anymore. They can't even fix a leak on their faucet without just buying some new 'bold' Kohler monstrosity and just chuck the old one. You can just repair them, you know...

When we moved from that house, we had so much firewood stored up that it would have taken 10 years to burn it all through the fireplace.

My dad didn't make us get up and go get wood because we needed it, but because he knew it would be good for my brother and I to get out of the house on the weekend and go do something 'useful', and get some exercise. Every _other_ Saturday, Dad would take us out on the motorcycles, or go hunting, or fishing, or play baseball, or fly kites, or get worms for fishing,  or catch octopus, or go camping, or show us how to tune an engine, or rebuild a bike, or jog down to the little 'Dairy Dell' for an ice cream, or all of those things on the same day. 

He'd also take us to church on Sunday. With the constant bombardment of hard work, hard play and quality time well spent, we got to know Dad, and when he had to 'whup' us for doing something that we did that was out of line, he'd earned the right and respect to do so because he'd spent 100 times as much effort on doing positive things with us. On the wood days, whether on the drive out or the drive back, he'd always say something to us about how we should try and live life. He didn't spend a lot of time doing it when he did it, but he did it, and when you're dusty, sweaty, tired, and sitting beside your Dad who has as much or more mud, blood and sweat on him as you, you JUST LISTEN!

Kids today don't get that. I coached my son's little league sports teams for several years, and nine out of ten of those kids didn't have the spark or drive that comes with the interaction of a "man's man" dad. There were a lot of kids who I hoped and prayed would finally get the Ritalin prescription that they needed to take the place of the positive parenting/teaching that they were lacking, because they ate up all of my time an energy that should have been spent on the kids who really just wanted to have fun and be a part of the team.

In our school district back home, when my kids were in first and third grade, there was a fifth-grade teacher (who went to school with my mom) that was dismissed because he grabbed one of these little derelicts my the scruff of his shirt, put him against the wall, and explained that he'd need to quit sexually harassing the girls in his fifth grade class, or get dealt with.

We lost a great teacher that week, and it made a definite point in my life. The other 25 students in his class suffered through several weeks of disruption because of this incident, and they ended up suffering educationally and socially because of it. Instead of feeling protected from this little predatory wannabe, they realized that for some retarded reason, they had to figure out for themselves how to deal with it. That's too much pressure to put on a kid.

I'm very lucky to have a son who is two years older than my daughter, because I was able to lay the burden of protection on him. I raised him with the mentality of "since me and the teachers can't go 'whup' the kids who think they're entitled to mess around with your sister, that's your job. And if you don't 'whup' them, or you don't get whupped trying, I'll 'whup' you when you get home." That very situation has presented itself twice that I know of, and I'm not only proud as you can imagine of my son. Just like bullies world-wide, when they saw him coming at them, they changed their ways, and my daughter sees him in a light that most girls don't when they look at their brothers.

She still bugs on him a little bit, but she gives him respect that most girls don't give their brothers. They fight, they bicker, but they love each other and know that blood means something more than just someone they have to share a bathroom with. I'm proud of that. I've always told my son that no matter what the school system says, when it comes to protecting your sister, you do what I say that you need to do, and if any authority figure at the school has a problem with that, they can deal with ME. If he ever gets expelled for beating the stuffing out of someone who thinks they can take liberties with his sister, the only person whose judgment he has to deal with is mine, and I lean pretty light on him when it's like that.

But that's me! What about those who aren't blessed with an older son/younger daughter situation? Who do they pass the 'protection' burden to?

In the old days, we could rely on the school system to take care of those situations, but now? No thanks. Gray areas have no place in my family, and since the teachers and administration are so obviously handicapped in that arena, I'll just go ahead and rely on my son to deal with it, in my absence. If, in his youth, he makes a mistake or two, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, and handle anything that escalates. If it escalates beyond the school system and into a 'family feud', there's a good few of us that know right from wrong and will 'deal' with anything that comes up. If we go down, we'll go down together, and we rub elbows with many families that feel the same way.

I've also shown my son how to ride a bike, play baseball, chop wood, clean his room, mow the lawn, fly a kite, build a fire, 'whup' an ass, and make a pen. I trust his judgment, not because he's some super genius, not because he's strong, not because I've ridden him into the ground, but because good and bad, I did the best I could for him, just like my dad did for me, and he's a Kuehn. It's what we do. I'm proud to have the opportunity to pass on the ideal of being responsible not only for his (and hers - my daughter) actions, but also for protecting and holding dear the dying values and ethics that this country seems so dead set on chucking out the window.

I long for the day that some schmuck shows up at my door and says, "your son beat up my son", so I can drag him off the porch and explain things to him, but the sad thing is, any dad who cares enough about his son to show up would've taught his son the ropes long before it ever came to that, and I'd have probably already broken bread with them at a campfire, or we'd have gotten together and showed our kids how to fish, or we'd have build a potato gun or a tree house.  What a shame. All the tough guys who might actually get my blood boiling and running free for a few seconds are probably already my friends, so we'd have to arm-wrestle or something. heh [B)][}]

Al, as far as ADD goes? or ADHD, or ADDAHDHD, or whatever...for the one in ten kids who are diagnosed with it that actually _have_ it? I feel sorry for them. The other nine? Allow me to introduce my son, Nick. I'm sure he'd be happy to knock the ADD right out of them if the situation calls for it.


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## fiferb (May 2, 2008)

Karl, well stated. I think by your description we'll have to call each other friend. I think you'll find if you could meet my two sons the same values and ethics that you've instilled in your children.


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## kent4Him (May 2, 2008)

Doc, I'm sorry if this hit a nerve.  That was not my intention.  I did not write it, I found it a bit funny and I passed it on.  For offending you, I apologize.

That being said, I don't see much, if any of it, aimed at teachers.  I see it aimed at the overly politically correct, overly litigious, nanny state that society at large has become.  

I also do not accept blame for the situation we are in.  I did not create the situation and I do not live into it either.  I spend a good amount of time helping my kids with homework and I am not afraid to discipline them with a whack across their bottom when they don't try.  Its harder and harder to raise kids these days and the educational system is just part of what makes that tough.  Having to deal with "New Math" crap, school books taking time to discuss with 5th graders where or not Columbus "Discovering" America was a good thing or not, citizen of the month awards where a child gets up and reads "I show respect for people when I show respect", and basically trying to teach advanced topic when they don't even understand the basics are just some of the stuff we as parents need to deal with.  I don't think it is the teachers, but the teaching establishment that have brought us these joys.


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## TellicoTurning (May 2, 2008)

I think I have to agree somewhat with what Al and Bruce said.  My step daughter is a fourth generation teacher.  She has won several awards for obtaining grants and special awards for her schools.  But, she is also very frustrated in that she spends more time getting ready for the "tests" than she does teaching.  

I graduated from a small town highschool about 48 years ago.  We had students that didn't graduate because they failed some course of study.  They were held back, not given a social diploma.  I remember one math teached that used an inovative method of teaching... he let us teach each other and he worked with any student that was having trouble with a concept or particular problem.  I've seen him spend one hour explaining to a single student a single problem while the rest of the class worked on whatever assignment we had for that day.  Those of us who "got it", explained to the our friend or classmate.

I personally think one of the worst concepts to come out of the "new" school systems are the TASS tests and such.  We had Acheivement tests in my day, but they were not planned, we would find out on Monday that we were taking the tests on Tuesday.. they were probably predecessors to the TASS, but they measured how well we were doing in our regular everyday schooling.

Mention was made of the divorce rate... Unfortunately, for me and my son, I was a divorced father when my son was only 5.  I sued in court for custody and won.  So I was a single father raising a 5 year old and shortly after the divorce, my wife's daughter from her first marriage (she was 14) called and wanted to come back to live with me.  I more or less put my life on hold until I raised my children.  My daughter chose not to move with me back to Texas in 1980, instead decided to live with her biological father, but I moved an 8 year old boy to Texas and enrolled him in school.  The school immediately decided that he was suffering from ADD and wanted to put him in "special" education.  I knew that they were wrong, he would use the "special" education as a crutch and refused to allow it.. he went into the mainstream of students.  He did struggle some because in his first 2 years of school, he wound up being moved too many times and fell behind.  When he went into the 4th grade, he was really struggling and after a long counseling session with the school, they recommended he do the 3rd grade over... I talked it over with him, explained all that had happened and was going to happen and let him make the decision.. work harder and I would work with him in the 4th, or re-do the third and catch up.  He chose to re-do the third.  He was pretty young in school anyway, since his birthday is June and started in Sept... he graduated with a pretty solid C+ average and then went into the Army for 5 years.  After the Army, he tried college one semester and decided that wasn't for him.  Today he is a manager in a company that is a division of IBM, he's self taught in computer programming and doing very well.  I met my current wife and we were married shortly after his 19th birthday.  

I believe we need to get away from the "now" society, ignore the one or two dissents that want to change things in school so their child doesn't have to be subjected to someone's ideas other than their own.  There are far too many lawsuits from dis-interested parents that want a free baby-sitter and maybe a free ride for themselves and their offspring.. life can be hard, but you can make life hard too.. first thing we need right now is to get government out of the schools and let the teachers do their jobs.. which includes being able to discipline the unruly students.


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## hillikus (May 2, 2008)

Amen Karl. Wonderful post.


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## SuperDave (May 2, 2008)

> _Originally posted by DocStram_
> 
> The problem is .... us.  You and me.  Society.
> 
> ...



My wife is a 30 year educator and has the same "schedule". 

It is difficult, to say the least, when stay-at-home moms, with one or two kids, complain how overworked and busy they are... too busy to come to the parent/teacher conferences. In fact, the Hispanic parents out number the Anglo parents 5:1 at conferences. 

My wife does all this and has children to be a mother to when she gets home. When other married couples are going out to dinner and a movie, ballgames, weekends at the beach, what have you, my wife is going to staff meetings after class, leading teacher workshops, etc., then coming home and working until 10:00-11:00 PM planning for the next days class, getting ready for field trips, correcting papers, doing report cards, calling parents, and the list goes on. There are a lot of teachers that do the minimum to get by. My wife is not one of them.

While at school, she gets no lunch breaks because she keeps kids in class that have not completed their homework (why? because parents don't make them do their homework!) and monitors them... while choking down a salad. There are no 15 minute breaks twice a day like most occupations.

My wife is one of the highest regarded teachers in her district. It is encouraging when student teachers request her as a mentor, when students from past years run up to her on the street, and especially when a past student will be teaching 4th grade with her next year.

And don't get me started on the changes in the social and bureaucratic structures... I want to live a few more years.

Doc... tell your wife "well done" from us. As for you, well, you're a "guy" so it doesn't count...[}]


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## mywoodshopca (Nov 23, 2008)

pretty scary how times have changed..

We have a great christian private school here that my daughter attends.  What a world of difference as far as the kids get along.. kids in the higher grades help the younger kids with boots, coats, etc without even being asked, never any fights, no real clicks, everyone tends to get along.. teachers are all super nice.. The teachers at this school, their payrate is about 60% of a public school teacher. Completely private funding with no government funding. What a woorld of difference from what i attended about 20 years ago...


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## THarvey (Nov 24, 2008)

PaulDoug said:


> So sad, but so true.   I really feel sorry for the kids of today.



I feel just as sorry for the teachers.  They are in an uncontrollable situation.  The kids have more authority in the schools than the teachers and principals.

My wife is a teacher with many years experience in public and private schools.  She currently teaches in a private school.  The pay is about 50% of her public school pay last year.  However, the adults are in charge, not the students.

BTW:  In the last scenario, you left off that Mary has to register as a sexual preditor for the REST OF HER LIFE.


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## THarvey (Nov 24, 2008)

Doc,

Well said.

The public schools are under so much presure to "teach the tests" that they fail to actually educate the students.

The public schools in Alabama added 5 schools days to the year beginning 2005.  The spend 9 days doing nothing by standardized tests and the remaining time teaching the tests.


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## maxwell_smart007 (Nov 24, 2008)

I'm a teacher as well, and I've pretty much gotten used to hearing about how much better it was in the old days.  I disagree.  The world is much different from 1957, and much of it is for the better.  

Society has changed, and teachers must too.  Teaching can no longer be just worksheets and lecture; students are now so used to video games that their attention span has changed.  Luckily, my attention span is as short as theirs, so I switch gears often!  

I'll continue to teach the best that I can, and do my best to help each student succeed.  I agree with Al that students with disabilities have a lot more support today than they have ever had before...individual educational assistants in many cases.  I wish there were more EAs in each classroom (so when your school taxes go up, don't complain - it give more students chances for success).  

Society has changed, admittedly, but that's not a bad thing.  Is it a bad thing that students are prohibited from having guns at school?  I certainly don't think so.  Is is a bad thing that students are prohibited from fighting?  Certainly not.  In fact, I would say that those students who watched the fight should be reprimanded as well.  Should principals still beat students?  Of course not!  Schools need to be safe, supporting, and conducive to learning.  There are other ways to keep people in line outside of fear of bodily punishment!   

Regardless, this has been an interesting topic...I know it was meant in light humour, and that's the way it was taken by me at least....but I still enjoy the opportunity to discuss and debate!  

And sorry, Karl - I didn't have my riddelin this morning, obviously, because I couldn't make it through your post...I'll try again after a few more doses of caffeine.  

Andrew


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## cozee (Nov 24, 2008)

Teachers today have our heart felt sympathies. 13 years ago we saw how constrained teachers in our local schools had gotten. This is why we chose to home school our son, now 17, and graduated. We gave him the option of attending public high school his freshman year and he chose to give it a try. School initiated testing placed him at the same academic level as most sophmores and juniors in the school. The principal was hesitant but agreed to enroll him. 3 days later our son was back in school here at home. The public system caters to the slowest child in the class and this caused our son to get quite bored very quickly. The principal told us that if our son had been in public school at an earlier age, he would have been diagnosed with an "alphabet disorder" (my term) and likely put on some type of medication. Not because he had some type of disability but because the system failed him. Sadly, I have seen this happen all to often to bright, intelligent children. They bore quickly because the curriculum is moving slowly. They get labeled as disorderly and eventually tagged as having some type of disorder and medicated. The medication in turn dulls the child and thus limits their natural ability to learn and grow intellectually.

No child left behind simply means less children get ahead in public schools.



> There are other ways to keep people in line outside of fear of bodily punishment!


I wish these were ways that are well known. The State of Illinois pays out about $40k a year simply to house and feed one incarcerated individual. And the prisons are already over crowded, and even before their built. Seems "back in the day" when punishments actually fit the crime, less crimes were committed. However, since "reasoning" as entered into the disciplining of crimes, there is less of a price to pay. Thus we have more criminals. Same theory applies to students.



> (so when your school taxes go up, don't complain - it give more students chances for success).


2/3rds of my property taxes already go to pay for failing schools. And they are already working on ways to get more in tax dollars. Sorry, I will complain. Especially when there options here locally which are proving to work better than the public system, and at a comparable or even lower cost. Again, no offense to those who teach, my complaint is against those who determine what and how they will teach.

:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:


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## leehljp (Nov 25, 2008)

My home county had casinos 10+ come into it back in the mid-90's. The county has had plenty of money while surrounding counties have been totally lacking. With that in mind, that school system has had money galore but at the same time has been on probation and under threat to be taken over by the state much more than once for academic under achievement. The people in control won't kick a person out for fighting or even expel for 3 days, etc. I can't go into the details of the pitiful state of the school because they don't want anyone left behind their class. Teachers have to turn a blind eye to fairness and good teachers leave. 

That school has been the instigator for support for a local private school! 

I decided I did not want to be a teacher during 'practice teaching' in the late '60s. Corporal punishment was banned, students were allowed to sass teachers, discipline was on the way out and teachers were made to accept it. Not that way in the early '60's for sure.


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## Rfturner (Apr 14, 2010)

I worked with kids for four years as my job. (I still volunteer at my church), I was a school assitant, I would run the after school program. My hands were tied behind my back so tight that I could not even do my job. I had fewer restictions than teachers. I remember coming home frustrated because it was getting so bad. I would be very cautious with my actions because parents are so sue happy. I would be leary of even trying to make the kid feel better after an injury. 

The entire thing about the Schools in 1957 and 2007 is very true. It is sad that it has come this far. I graduated in 2008, in high school I occassionally had a knife that I left in my pocket from the day before. If it happened I was very careful because it could have gotten me expelled.


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## dgscott (Apr 14, 2010)

okay, this is the same kind of nostalgic "remember the good old days" piece that I see once in a while, and it's certainly true that some things were less complicated back when a stamp cost 3 cents. But I'm psychotherapist who spends far too much time dealing with adults whose parents beat the s+++ out of them so "they'd get growed up gud," and are now repeating this cycle in their own families. Honestly? There's never a good reason to strike a child. Beating kids makes not for college educated well adjusted successful adults, it makes for rage filled victims. Sit in my chair for a couple of hours.

And, yeah, alot more kids have attention problems these days than they did 60 years ago -- thank the rapid fire nature of children's television programming for much of that. By the way, there's a lot more juvenile diabetes, too -- primarily because moron parents spoon feed their kids foods laden with high fructose corn syrup and their pancreas breaks down -- we didn't have that in the 50's either. And as far as Johnnie going quail hunting before school and leaving his double barrel in the truck, the pervasive influence of an unregulated internet, gothic fashion, and punk rock that convinces kids that life is cheap means that high school students aren't shooting quail any more -- they're shooting each other. And frankly, I'm damn glad SWAT teams are on the ready when Johnnie brings his Remington to school.

Give me a break. For better or for worse, it ain't the 50's anymore, primarily because dumb is on a world wide rampage. Remember Pogo? We have met the enemy and he is us.

My 0.02.
Doug


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## jocat54 (Apr 14, 2010)

Well I found the OP entertaining and humerous--even if it is true. I could have a lot to say but can't type that fast so--I agree teachers have one hell of a job and my hats are off to them--as for the system that has got us here--we should take most of the responsibilty--we have let it happen. Just an old guy's opinion. (in 1957 I was in the 1st or 2nd grade-I think)


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