# Cheapest finish?



## Jay_bobo (Oct 26, 2013)

Hi I'm new to penturning and was wondering what kind of finish I should get, I don't want something to expensive just something to practice with. Thanks and thing is helpful!


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## paintspill (Oct 26, 2013)

You will hear alot of talk about ca finishes around here and they look great and really aren't that expensive in the grand scheme of things because the do go a long ways. But from a beginner's stand point I think you should look at some of the wax options or what are commonly referred to as friction finishes. They are by far the easiest  to apply and probably the cheapest. The one that I am currently using consists of 2 bars, a dark and Light. Super easy to use and they seem to last forever


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## Lucky2 (Oct 27, 2013)

What I use is the cheapest CA glue I could get, I got it at one of the local dollar stores. It works fine, and it can be used to glue the brass tubes into the blanks also. Usually you can get two different concentrations to pick from, thick and thin both work well. And your not going to get much cheaper then a dollar to do a pen, one tube is plenty to do a pen. Good luck and, just don't glue yourself to anything!!
Len


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## dogcatcher (Oct 27, 2013)

Considering how much finish is used on a pen, the cost factor is really not something you need to worry about.  An easy and good finish is what you should to be looking for.  All of the finishes have some learning curve.  Look in the library and read up on the various finishes, pick one and try it.


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## Monty (Oct 27, 2013)

Lucky2 said:


> What I use is the cheapest CA glue I could get, I got it at one of the local dollar stores. It works fine, and it can be used to glue the brass tubes into the blanks also. Usually you can get two different concentrations to pick from, thick and thin both work well. And your not going to get much cheaper then a dollar to do a pen, one tube is plenty to do a pen. Good luck and, just don't glue yourself to anything!!
> Len


You will get way more than 5 pens from a $5, 2oz bottle of CA from Exotics. 
While a friction polish or the 2 stick method that paintspill is referring to look good at first, the finish will not hold up very long.


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## LanceD (Oct 27, 2013)

Deft lacquer. One can can finish many pens with several coats on each.


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## LouF (Oct 27, 2013)

Monty said:


> Lucky2 said:
> 
> 
> > What I use is the cheapest CA glue I could get, I got it at one of the local dollar stores. It works fine, and it can be used to glue the brass tubes into the blanks also. Usually you can get two different concentrations to pick from, thick and thin both work well. And your not going to get much cheaper then a dollar to do a pen, one tube is plenty to do a pen. Good luck and, just don't glue yourself to anything!!
> ...



Not trying to highjack the thread, but you stated Friction polish will hold up long with normal use how long do you figure? The first pens I turned I used Mylands friction polish I now use CA.


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## ChrisN (Oct 27, 2013)

I started out using CA finish. The 8oz bottles last quite a while.


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## pesto126 (Oct 27, 2013)

How does everyone deal with the odor and fumes from CA for a finish?  I'm in a closed basement and dont' want to breathe all those fumes/odors for health reasons... thoughts?


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## Monty (Oct 27, 2013)

pesto126 said:


> How does everyone deal with the odor and fumes from CA for a finish?  I'm in a closed basement and dont' want to breathe all those fumes/odors for health reasons... thoughts?


I use my dust collector to suck the fumes away. Some use a fan to blow them away. Others use odorless CA.


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## pesto126 (Oct 27, 2013)

good ideas... wonder if odorless CA still has harmful fumes though...


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## Fred (Oct 27, 2013)

I figure it this way ... cheap on, cheap results. Nothing I have used or seen others use lasts as long as nor is anywhere as durable as a properly applied CA finish.

Practice with what you intend on using. Otherwise what is the lesson(s) to be learned. You must have something that is durable, long lasting, able to withstand the different chemistry in people's hands, etc. It can be akin to applying an oil base paint over a water based undercoating. 

Remember the ole addage concerning computer programming ... SISO. If the finish you use does not withstand the use it is subjected to well, ... nothing lasts forever. Well, maybe the government does.


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## randyrls (Oct 27, 2013)

Monty said:


> I use my dust collector to suck the fumes away. Some use a fan to blow them away. Others use odorless CA.



To join the thread;  Or use a face mask rated for VOC's.  A pair of goggles will keep the fumes out of your eyes.


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## Wildman (Oct 27, 2013)

Why people believe high gloss or sheen equals durability is beyond me.  Simply not true folks!

When selecting a finish think need to consider wood grain’ are you dealing closed or open grain, and is the wood oily? Then select best finish for that wood.

Finishing techniques (application) consist of brushing, dipping, spraying and wiping. Choose a finish and technique that is easiest for you! 

I have never had a problem with a CA finish but apparently many people do if read post in the finishing section. For the longest time could not buy CA glue in my town now you can.  So when add up cost plus shipping CA was not the least expensive finish for me.

I do more than turn pens so look for finishes available locally whether penetrating or film finish.


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## Lucky2 (Oct 27, 2013)

Monty said:


> Lucky2 said:
> 
> 
> > What I use is the cheapest CA glue I could get, I got it at one of the local dollar stores. It works fine, and it can be used to glue the brass tubes into the blanks also. Usually you can get two different concentrations to pick from, thick and thin both work well. And your not going to get much cheaper then a dollar to do a pen, one tube is plenty to do a pen. Good luck and, just don't glue yourself to anything!!
> ...


 
Monty, I'm aware of how many pens one can get from a 2oz bottle of CA, but, where I live the cheapest I can purchase a 2oz bottle of CA costs me around $12.00. This is what I based my calculations on, yes I can purchase it cheaper then that, but, I would have to add about $10.00 for postage, so it's a wash. The reason I like the dollar store glue; is that that there's no large bottle with a plugged up glue nozzle laying around. As for the friction polish method, I knew that it doesn't stand up, that's why I mentioned the CA finish.
Len


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## LouF (Oct 28, 2013)

I will be using CA to finish all of them from now on I am just worried about the few slime lines I gave a polish finish. I am a newbie and did not know about CA finish when I started. I do agree Cheap gives you cheap as my Dad would say "buy the best and only cry once".
Thanks guys for your replies.


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## Monty (Oct 28, 2013)

Lucky2 said:


> Monty said:
> 
> 
> > Lucky2 said:
> ...


Len, That may be true in your location in Canada, but if you order CA when you order other pen supplies, the shipping cost per item can drastically drop.


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## fitzman163 (Oct 28, 2013)

LouF said:


> Monty said:
> 
> 
> > Lucky2 said:
> ...



I did the same thing all CA now!


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## LouF (Oct 28, 2013)

Jim, you have some very nice looking pens on your facebook.


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## maverickgal (Nov 22, 2013)

We quit using CA finishes as we would see that the acidity of folks hands wore off the finish after a few years in certain areas of the pens.  Would have been ok if it had ALL worn off the same, but it ended up splotchy from where their hands came in contact with the pen the most.  Gave up and started our woods PROFESSIONALLY stabilized with acrylic.  NO finish needed from that point on, and it's pretty much idiot proof - I'm a living example of that!!  Plus it's quicker, less things needed for a stunning finish, and I have pens that have been out there being used for 15 years with this finish method, and they look as good as the day they were made.  Think about this as a good option for a fantastic finish...  :biggrin:

Sharon


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## Dan Masshardt (Nov 22, 2013)

maverickgal said:


> We quit using CA finishes as we would see that the acidity of folks hands wore off the finish after a few years in certain areas of the pens.  Would have been ok if it had ALL worn off the same, but it ended up splotchy from where their hands came in contact with the pen the most.  Gave up and started our woods PROFESSIONALLY stabilized with acrylic.  NO finish needed from that point on, and it's pretty much idiot proof - I'm a living example of that!!  Plus it's quicker, less things needed for a stunning finish, and I have pens that have been out there being used for 15 years with this finish method, and they look as good as the day they were made.  Think about this as a good option for a fantastic finish...  :biggrin:  Sharon



That's  solid advice.   Stabilized wood alone is pretty fool proof.  

Do you have a good method for buffing?   I can get a nice finish with professionally stabilized wood but I've never seen a wood finish from stabilized wood with nothing added or any friction finish that to me is 'stunning' that wasn't done with ca.


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## maverickgal (Nov 22, 2013)

Yes Dan - the best way that I've found is to take it up to 1,000 grit sandpaper, then the piece de' resistance is to then use the white jewelers buffing compound.  Comes in a tube/stick form - just rub it on while the lathe turns, then take a lint free cotton cloth and (again while turning) remove the compound.  You will have a stunning finish if the stabilization was done well and you use the white buffing compound!

Sharon


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## Rodnall (Nov 22, 2013)

Those who use a dust collector to suction the CA fumes must have their dust collector vented outside. I tried to use my dust collector and all I did was send the fumes all over my garage.


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## maverickgal (Nov 22, 2013)

Everyone should be aware that CA glue is a neurotoxin - can you say "brain dead" after a certain amount of that stuff in your system!!??  Anyone up for some Alzheimer's??  Definitely vent it outside and don't breathe it.  If you can, use the carbon filtered type of mask that filters out VOC's best if you "must" work with it.

Sharon


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## Dan Masshardt (Nov 22, 2013)

maverickgal said:


> Everyone should be aware that CA glue is a neurotoxin - can you say "brain dead" after a certain amount of that stuff in your system!!??  Anyone up for some Alzheimer's??  Definitely vent it outside and don't breathe it.  If you can, use the carbon filtered type of mask that filters out VOC's best if you "must" work with it.  Sharon



Any evidence?   Neurotoxin?   I don't believe the science says that at all.  Irritant?  Yes.  Some are very allergic. Neurotoxin?  Again, I'd like to see evidence.


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## maverickgal (Nov 22, 2013)

Heck, even the cleaning chemicals we put under our sinks are labeled as neurotoxins - I can't imagine that something as strong as CA isn't.  I would have to check the MSDS and other research on it...  I could be wrong, but I would be surprised if it wasn't one...  Just my two cents worth.  Since I got rid of all the chemicals in my house and quit working with CA, my fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue have both gone away and my brain works better now than then.  Who knows...


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## davidspens (Nov 24, 2013)

*CA Finish*

I never look for a cheap finish. I use a thin CA and apply 14 coats.
The lathe is set at 300 RPM. Apply one drip at the centre of the pen blank and spread it rapidly with a paper towel. after two coats spray with an accelerator, then repeat the process. Tip: if you apply to much CA at one time you will get a ribbed coating. If this occurs then sand it smooth and continue. Light coats are the answer. Having completed the coating I use Micromesh down to 12000 grit then finish with HUT white wax stick.
The cost is not high. It takes a little more time, however the result is fantastic.
Watch out I have glued fingers together. Keep a bottle of ACETONE handy.
Best Regards David Hallett


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## Bill in Buena Park (Nov 24, 2013)

davidspens said:


> ...I use a thin CA ...Having completed the coating I use Micromesh down to 12000 grit then finish with HUT white wax stick.
> The cost is not high. It takes a little more time, however the result is fantastic.



David, I just recently tried this approach (with thin CA, mesh, then HUT white) - I like it, but am curious to hear your experience with how durable this combo finish is over time.


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## kovalcik (Nov 25, 2013)

maverickgal said:


> *Everyone should be aware that CA glue is a neurotoxin* - can you say "brain dead" after a certain amount of that stuff in your system!!?? Anyone up for some Alzheimer's?? Definitely vent it outside and don't breathe it. If you can, use the carbon filtered type of mask that filters out VOC's best if you "must" work with it.
> 
> Sharon


\
While I believe your intentions are good, claims like this are really irresponsible.  There is nothing in the MSDS for CA glue even mentioning neuro-toxins.  For that matter, CA and stabilizing liquid which you promote as a replacement have the same HMIS Health Hazard rating (*2.* Temporary or minor injury may occur).   This information was taken from MSDS forms on Stick Fast website. Took less than 5 minutes to look up and read.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but when you state something with such import as fact (ie. CA glue is a neuro-toxin.) you should at least give your source for the information so people can make there own informed decisions.


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## LagniappeRob (Nov 25, 2013)

There a paper on peripheral neuropathy (numbness, pain, etc.) for CA on MedLine...  but I don't find any linking it to Alzheimer's or any other dementia.


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## LagniappeRob (Nov 25, 2013)

maverickgal said:


> ...
> Since I got rid of all the chemicals in my house
> ...




I doubt it.




> In chemistry, a chemical substance is a form of matter that has constant chemical composition and characteristic properties.[1] It cannot be separated into components by physical separation methods, i.e. without breaking chemical bonds. It can be solid, liquid, gas, or plasma.
> Chemical substances are often called 'pure' to set them apart from mixtures. *A common example of a chemical substance is pure water*;


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## maverickgal (Nov 25, 2013)

kovalcik said:


> While I believe your intentions are good, claims like this are really irresponsible...
> 
> You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but when you state something with such import as fact (ie. CA glue is a neuro-toxin.) you should at least give your source for the information so people can make there own informed decisions.



My deepest apologies.  You are right, I should have googled it first.  It isn't a neurotoxin.  I had bad info on that one.  And Rob, I wasn't saying anything about CA specifically going towards Alzheimers - just chemicals that are labeled neurotoxins - in general.   My mom had severe ALZ before she mercifully passed away before it reached the horrors of the final stages.  So please discount all my "rantings" about chemicals - it all comes from my multiple chemical sensitivity, and mom's Alzheimer's.  I will refrain from further commentary on the topic of chemicals!  Thank you guys for cutting me some slack - give an old gal the pass...

Sharon


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## LagniappeRob (Nov 25, 2013)

My mother has a form of dementia now so this hits close to home... but passing things along haphazardly doesn't help. I have heard all sorts of things passed along as facts with little to no evidence to support them. It's become a bit of a pet peeve.

It did get me curious so I pulled the SDS on 3 different CA's we use in this hospitals/clinics - 2 medical (Dermabond), 1 general purpose.  All 3 are listed with "No neurotoxic effects".


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## maverickgal (Nov 25, 2013)

Good to know (about the CA).  Again - sorry for my error.  :redface:


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## kovalcik (Nov 25, 2013)

I am sorry to hear about your mother.  I can understand your strong feelings.  

Also, my criticism is not meant to discount the other points you made about adequate ventilation and filter mask when using CA or the use of stabilized wood as a "no finish needed" option.  All are very valid points for discussion.


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## maverickgal (Nov 25, 2013)

Thanks for understanding about where I come from on all that other stuff...  I would hate to think that one misspoken, erroneous, statement would discount any helpful tips, tricks, or suggestions that I might throw out there!  :foot-in-mouth:


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## OOPS (Nov 25, 2013)

I think you will find that MOST here are willing to forgive.  I appreciated your information on stabilized wood and the way you "finish" it.  I will be anxious to try that myself.


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