# New finish testing



## DCBluesman

I'm looking for a few volunteers to try out a new finish.  It's a newly developed polish/wax that I've been using for a month or so.  I like the results, but I'm prejudiced as I have been part of the development team.  I can't give you all of the specifics, but I will tell you that it has the highest concentration of white carnauba wax in a polish and that the carnauba is toughened against human body oils and perspiration with a poly additive.  This product contains NO VOC's or HAZMATs, and has a delighful fragrance...unusual for finishing products in our hobby.

What I'm looking for is 1-2 testers with extensive experience in using 1) friction finish, 2) WB lacquer finish, 3) solvent-based lacquer finish, 4) poly finish, 5) other finishes that I haven't mentioned.  I ask that each tester try the product over their normal bottom and middle coats on a couple of pens or other wood projects.  The application is simple and takes very little time.

The product will be furnished to you free of charge and you may keep any remainder at the end of the test.  You should be able to use it to coat score of pens (if you like it as much as I do).

After your test, and hopefully within 30 days, I would then like your impression of the product in written form, along with a statement as to whether or not you would be willing to endorse it.

That's all there is to it.  Anyone interested?  If you are, please respond and let me know which finish you will combine this polish/wax with.

Thanks!


----------



## C_Ludwigsen

DC, I've used friction polish, CA, solvent-based lacquer, and BLO under solvent-based lacquer.  As you know, I'm looking for alternatives to the CA.  I intend to work more with the lacquers and with BLO to accent grain in certain woods.  I've also come to be fairly analytical in my finishing process as I'm constantly watching for signs of adverse reaction.

I will also continue to work with friction polish when demonstrating.  I have a demo coming up on the 23rd for the Mid South Woodturners Guild.

If I can be of assistance, please contact me at the email address in my profile.

Chuck


----------



## ryannmphs

DC,
I'd be interested in helping out as well.  Chuck and I are "turning buddies", so hopefully that wouldn't be a problem.

You can contact me via my email address in my profile.

Ryan


----------



## Doghouse

DC, count me in if you want.  

If it is solid, I would be interested in mixing it with the beall system and maybe some bowls.

Give me a call.


----------



## Old Griz

Lou count me in for testing if you still need people.. you have my number...
Tom


----------



## darbytee

Lou, I'm also more than willing if you need more volunteers.


----------



## Bev Polmanteer

I'm willing to test also.


----------



## DCBluesman

Thanks to all of you who have volunteered...including Scott whose arm was twisted a bit.[]  I sent an email to each of you asking for your "snail mail" address.  Do not reply here unless you want your address available to our 600+ members...just respond to my email or send me a message at DCBluesman@hotmail.com .  These addresses will NOT be used except for this testing.  Thanks so much for volunteering and I do have room for a few more folks if there is anyone out there who wants to test this new stuff, particularly those who may work in areas other than pens.


----------



## pecartus

I work with alot of flatwork items and am always looking for better finishes. If you still have room for one more, I would like to test it on a couple of flatwork items I am working on presently.


----------



## Efletche

I may not have the experience you are looking for, but I'm willing to help out as well.


----------



## wayneis

I'll through my name in the hat also, I've done most of the finishes that you mention and along with pens I do a few bowls and things.  Let me know.

Wayne


----------



## DCBluesman

Wow!  Thank you ALL for being so willing to help.  I made my partner go scrape the bottom of the beaker (laffing) and I now have room for 6 more testers.  I'm not sure if any of you who turn non-wood have an interest in a product like this, but if you're game, let me know.  All product will go out in tomorrow's mail, assuming I have your address.


----------



## DCBluesman

Alright, folks, I've filled the roster.  While I thought I'd get things in the mail today, it looks like tomorrow is more like it.  Those of you getting samples are Jim R, Scott, Bev, Tom M, Wayne S, Eagle, Patrick C, Chuck L, Jeff B, Fred R, John S, and Ryan M.  IF I missed anyone, please email me asap.  Hopefuly in about a month I can post some results, but I'm counting on each of you!


----------



## Efletche

I've been doing alot of deer antler pens lately. If you want to try your finish on them, let me know.


----------



## DCBluesman

By all mean try this stuff on antler.  I've never worked with the stuff, but am always curious.


----------



## DCBluesman

<b>The Process:</b>   Using it is easy.  Apply your base coat as you normally do, be it a sealer, friction finish, CA, poly, CA/BLO, or whatever you use.  Then simply rub on a coat of TSW-1121 (project code, not its final name), wait a minute or two for it to bond and set, then wipe it off well with a clean cloth or even a paper towel.  It does NOT need to be burned in, but can be applied and wiped down while on the lathe. Let it cure overnight, then lightly buff for a beautiful, hard, durable satin finish.  Buff a bit longer for higher gloss.  

<b>IMPORTANT:</b> This product contains tiny amounts of a polymer, so food and beverages should not be served on or in it.  Itâ€™s fine for bottle stoppers and all display bowls.  Also, although I have tried this product over the past month on at least 20 different woods and over many types of kit parts, I cannot be responsible for damage to any of your products beyond the actual cost of your materials.  Besides, your time is priceless!  October 5, 2004

<b>Addendum</b> October 9, 2004:  If you want to try for an eye-opening finish, try this.  After each buffing, wait 24 hours and add another coatâ€¦the more coats, the deeper the finish.  I have one sample where the pen seems to be glistening deep within the finish.  Even I canâ€™t believe it.

<b>REQUESTED FEEDBACK</b> (courtesy of Chuck L): Please set up a document for each item you use the finish on.  Please include:

- Item description
- Wood type(s)
- Pre-finish if applicable (sanding sealer / BLO)
- Pre-finish sanding grits
- Finish application notes including bonding wait time
- Post finish notes, wait time, observances
- Buffing steps used - desired sheen (semi or high gloss)
- Assembly notes
- Opinion and reasons

If this is too burdensome, just keep what info you can and drop me a note in a month.


----------



## C_Ludwigsen

Lou.  I'm making this post "sticky" while the test is going on so it is easy for folks to find and refresh their memory.  Do you want testing results sent to YOU and (a) not posted here, (b) optionally posted here, (c) please post here?

If you need the results sent only to you I will lock this thread and post a caution message.

Looking forward to the product.


----------



## DCBluesman

Thanks, Chuck....and no, please let the results flow through.  If these folks are kind enough to try my stuff out, I'm more than happy to let the evaluations be public...praise or criticism.  If they wish to send "blind" results, they can email me. [8D] (I hope that's not in bad taste...[])


----------



## Doghouse

- Item description
- Wood type(s) - White oak crotch

- Pre-finish if applicable - none
- Pre-finish sanding grits - 220 and beall (NO WAX)
- Finish application notes including bonding wait time - wiped on and waited to glaze over like car polish.  
   then buffed out with same cloth.  Repeated 1 time.

- Post finish notes, wait time, observances - used the beall system to final buff and it is a glass like
    surface.  Very nice.
- Buffing steps used - desired sheen (semi or high gloss) - see above high gloss
- Assembly notes
- Opinion and reasons - Smell was plesant, wonder if it is safe for clear coat cars?  Considering the level of sheen, I would use it on my whole truck.  I took the wine stoppers to dinner and it was handled all through the meal on and off the bottle.  Wine was splashed on it and appeared to have no ill effect and no loss in sheen.


----------



## DCBluesman

Thanks, John. And let me tell you that this stuff IS great for clear coated cars.  In fact, it's perfectly formulated for them.  You can put on coat after coat to create a deep lustre...you can do that with wood as well.  And that pleasant smell, think cocoanuts. [8D]


----------



## C_Ludwigsen

Nice summary, John.  You know we wants pictures!!!  Can't wait to get my batch to experiment as well.


----------



## Old Griz

- Item description
- Wood type(s) - Red Wood Burl
- Pre-finish if applicable - BLO/CA
- Pre-finish sanding grits - 600
- Finish application notes including bonding wait time - wiped on and waited to glaze over, then buffed out with same cloth. Assembled pen.
- Post finish notes, wait time, observances - Waited until following morning and Soft cotton cloth to final buff it to a glass like surface.
- Buffing steps used - desired sheen (semi or high gloss) - see above high gloss
- Assembly notes
- Opinion and reasons - Nice pleasant smell... 
Was a little apprehensive about time to apply and buff since I usually do 10-20 pens at a time... but final buffing of assembled pen turned out not to be a problem.. 
Gloss went from satin to high gloss with little extra effort.. 
My Wife carry this pen with her to see how the finish holds up... 
Observed same effects on black locust, jatoba, curly maple pens..


----------



## ryannmphs

I got my sample in yesterday's mail.  I'll be testing it and reporting the results in the next day or two.

Ryan


----------



## Efletche

Anyone going to post a few pics of the ir pens with this test finish applied?


----------



## DCBluesman

I certainly hope so.  How about it Tom? John?  I'll be posting a picture tonight of a sindora burl pen that I finished yesterday.  Let's see what results others are getting!


----------



## DCBluesman

Here it is.  Sindora burl Titanium gold Gentleman Jr. pen finished with sanding sealer bottom coat and TSW-1121 top coat.

<b>Image Insert:</b><br />


<br /> 17.83&nbsp;KB


----------



## darbytee

- Item description- slimline pen
- Wood type(s) - Maple Burl
- Pre-finish if applicable - BLO/CA
- Pre-finish sanding grits - 1200 then EEE
- Finish application notes including bonding wait time - wiped on and waited approximately 5 minutes, then buffed off with same cloth
- Post finish notes, wait time, observances - 
- Buffing steps used - desired sheen (semi or high gloss) - high gloss
- Assembly notes- no issues
- Opinion and reasons - Great smell 
Just got my sample today and was anxious to try it out. I'll carry this pen starting tomorrow and will post results on how it wears. 

<b>Image Insert:</b><br />

<br /> 45.31&nbsp;KB


----------



## Old Griz

Here are pics of the pens I did with the new finish... all Executive Roller Balls.... various light to dark woods... all polished up real well to a high gloss.. These were made after the first couple I tested... got a better hand on the application and buffing process on these... just a little learning curve... first time I did not follow the directions correctly and they still turned out good.. but these are even better... 
- Item description
- Wood type(s) - Various (See Pictures)
- Pre-finish if applicable - BLO/CA
- Pre-finish sanding grits - 600
- Finish application notes including bonding wait time - wiped on and waited to glaze over, then buffed out with same cloth. Assembled pen.
- Post finish notes, wait time, observances - Waited until following morning and Soft cotton cloth to final buff it to a glass like surface.
- Buffing steps used - Old cotton tshirt buffed to high gloss


----------



## Efletche

I have to say, not only are your pens great looking but your photographt is great too! I definately like the brilliance this finish added to your work.


----------



## wayneis

Tom, why does some of that look familiar, especially the Redwood and the Thuya.  Is it from what I sent to you?  Wherever it came from you did a nice job with it because they all look good.  I like those kits, they allow for a lot of wood.  I also like the classic rollerballs, but the bits are a little expensive but the lines of the pen is just so nice.  I had to buy a bunch of kits to make up for the expense of the bits.  Nice job.

Wayne


----------



## Old Griz

Yes Wayne that Redwood came from you... the thuya was from another source.. 
I agree those kits are the ones to use if you really want to show off some fancy wood... it is a shame the maples did not come out as good as they really are... 
It is not a photograph... I put the pens on my flatbed scanner and set the resolution to 200dpi and adjust the brightness and contrast to get a good scan...
I got the kits from Cedarman (http://www.penturners.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1179) he is selling off kits for someone whose husband used to be a pen turner.. great prices... and got them real quick...


----------



## wayneis

Tom Let me know when you turn something from the birds eye that I sent you.  I have not had the chance to use it yet but think it will make a really nice pen or something or other.

Wayne


----------



## jwoodwright

Lou, if it's not too late, I'd like to try it.  Can you Mail it?  I'm in Anchorage, Alaska.  Tough to get any finishing materials sent through Mail.[]


----------



## tipusnr

I'm too busy at other things to be a reliable tester but, from what I'm reading, let me know when you go to market with it.  I'll definitely buy some.  

If you, for some reason, decide not to go to market I like to get some anyway.  Keep us posted!


----------



## DCBluesman

Those of you who have already started using TSW-1121 are too kind.  Thanks for the emails and postings of encouragement.  

And for those of you who are asking when it will be available and how much it will cost, please rest assured that it will be available as soon as I feel that my testers have sufficiently tried it and believe that it has value.  This is a test.  IF it doesn't produce excellent results, I'll go back to the drawing board...no harm, no foul.  I value my reputation too much to sell an unproven product.  

I'm shooting to begin sales, <u>to IAP members only</u>, before Thanksgiving if all goes well.  The members of this site have treated me like family...well at least like the dumb cousin who needs schooling [] since I joined and I will partially repay my debt by letting IAP members have first purchase for at least two months before offering it to anyone else (well, my own customers will probably get a chance too...but no other woodworkers for 60 days).  

As for the price, it will be competitive to and probably less than Renaissance Wax.  Quantity discounts will be available to any of you who wish to order for resale to your customers.  Now some of you may wonder why I think it should be priced like that and all I can tell you is that I believe it to be a superior product and since I'm just starting out I do not have a large base of sales to spread my costs over.  I will tell you that ultimately the market determines the price.  I will be as responsive to you good folks as I can be.  

Now if you will indulge me one more time, <b>please let me know if the 1/2 ounce size that seems to sell the best is a good size</b>.  Rather than clog up the arteries here with posts, consider emailing me your responses directly, DCBluesman@hotmail.com .  [8D]


----------



## Doghouse

That would depend on the price.  I would perfer to purchase a larger size.  My fingers don't quite work that size.  (I hope to get a pic up tomorrow morn.)  I have use up a good portion of it.  Just wait until you see.


----------



## C_Ludwigsen

I have 2 pens turned and ready for the finish - which will happen tomorrow.  I also cut and drilled about 10 others this evening.  Three of these are specifically test pens for the TSW-1121.  One of those will get BLO/TSW, one will get sanding sealer/TSW, and the other will get a lacquer finish then TSW.  I will be posting pics sometime next week.


----------



## DCBluesman

<b>FIRST NEGATIVE RESULT:</b> (edited but all relevance retained)
_ used BLO/shelac finish on the pen,followed by Butchers wax(it's advertised as bowling alley wax containing carnauba)
I wanted to see what your finish would do to liven it up.
Since you said it could be used on cars I coated all the pieces.
....in the process of buffing out the filigree in the center band I took all the gold off the band itself.
The band is now silver.( I have a jeweler friend who will replate it for me.)
I am chalking it up to my error but maybe you should warm others.
I normally buff out my pens on the lathe with a buffing wheel chucked into a hand drill.
It's possible that my wheel was contaminated but regardless caution should be taken on plated parts.
Like I said, my mistake, not the fault of the finish._

My take on this is:
1. I do not advise using TSW-1121 with other waxes.  I'm VERY familiar with Butcher's Paste, having worked with it for 6 years in the bowling alley business.  It's a great wax, but full of polishing compounds (it takes the scratches off the lanes).  Combining the polishing compounds with the poly in the TSW-1121 may have resulted in "polishing" the gold-plate right off of the pieces.  So far, none of the other testers have had this problem.

2. A long buffing of the product is unnecessary, even to reach a glass-like gloss.  Less than a minute will bring out all the gloss you will get.  If you want more depth to the finish, wait 24 hours after the first coat and add a second.  Each coat adds depth.

3. For those of you using buffing wheels, be sure to keep them for exclusive use.  Tripoli, Diamond, carnauba and TSW-1121 all need their own wheel.  Contamination can cause awful results.

This being said, I apologize to the tester and offer, as I have stated before, to replace the kit as well as the blank.  I still stand behind this stuff, but please be advised.


----------



## its_virgil

Unless the finish is titanium, or whatever the different mfgs call it,it can be buffed off very easily. I don't think the wax had anyting to do with it. Could be wrong...have been before...and will again.  I have tried to buff off TiAu and was not successful.
Do a good turn daily!
Don


> _Originally posted by DCBluesman_
> <br /><b>FIRST NEGATIVE RESULT:</b> (edited but all relevance retained)
> _ used BLO/shelac finish on the pen,followed by Butchers wax(it's advertised as bowling alley wax containing carnauba)
> I wanted to see what your finish would do to liven it up.
> Since you said it could be used on cars I coated all the pieces.
> ....in the process of buffing out the filigree in the center band I took all the gold off the band itself.
> The band is now silver.( I have a jeweler friend who will replate it for me.)
> I am chalking it up to my error but maybe you should warm others.
> I normally buff out my pens on the lathe with a buffing wheel chucked into a hand drill.
> It's possible that my wheel was contaminated but regardless caution should be taken on plated parts.
> Like I said, my mistake, not the fault of the finish._
> 
> My take on this is:
> 1. I do not advise using TSW-1121 with other waxes.  I'm VERY familiar with Butcher's Paste, having worked with it for 6 years in the bowling alley business.  It's a great wax, but full of polishing compounds (it takes the scratches off the lanes).  Combining the polishing compounds with the poly in the TSW-1121 may have resulted in "polishing" the gold-plate right off of the pieces.  So far, none of the other testers have had this problem.
> 
> 2. A long buffing of the product is unnecessary, even to reach a glass-like gloss.  Less than a minute will bring out all the gloss you will get.  If you want more depth to the finish, wait 24 hours after the first coat and add a second.  Each coat adds depth.
> 
> 3. For those of you using buffing wheels, be sure to keep them for exclusive use.  Tripoli, Diamond, carnauba and TSW-1121 all need their own wheel.  Contamination can cause awful results.
> 
> This being said, I apologize to the tester and offer, as I have stated before, to replace the kit as well as the blank.  I still stand behind this stuff, but please be advised.


----------



## Doghouse

3 are finished wiith beall, 3 have the new finsh.  Which?


The left 3 have the new finish on them.  They even feel slick.


----------



## C_Ludwigsen

- Item description: Silver (shiny) Slimline Pen
- Wood type(s) - Mesquite

- Pre-finish if applicable - Sanding sealer at 320, BLO at 1000
- Pre-finish sanding grits - 220, 320 (SS), 400, 600, 800, 1000 (BLO)
- Finish application notes including bonding wait time - Rubbed on small amount thoroughly and waited 4 minutes.  Wiped clean

- Post finish notes, wait time, observances -
- Buffing steps used - desired sheen (semi or high gloss) - Medium High Gloss
- Assembly notes: No issues, no fingerprints.
- Opinion and reasons - So far, so good.  I may apply a second application tomorrow to build the depth of the finish up a bit.  I did notice that where the TSW had gotten on the bushings, it left them a bit blued.  Nothing major.

Pics to follow when I get time to set up the photo booth.


----------



## DCBluesman

I'm surprised that you got a sticky bushing with this, Chuck.  I almost always put my first coat on while it's on the spindle...just rub it straight across.  I've not had a problem.  Any chance it was the BLO or the sanding sealer?  Also, if you want to do additional coats for depth, make sure you give it about 24 hours between coats.  Otherwise the second coat may soften the first.  I can't wait to see what you've done.

And John...some more really great stoppers/tops.  Sure is tough to tell which is which. [8D]


----------



## C_Ludwigsen

Thanks for the reminder about waiting 23 hrs, Lou.  I'll do that.

The bushings did not stick at all (as in glued), it discolored them a bit (as in BLUEd) [].  No big deal though, they're just bushings.  I put it on a silver pen kit with no discoloration at all.

Okay, I'm tired, headed to bed.


----------



## DCBluesman

I read that as "glued".  Think I'd better get some sleep before other things start failing me. [8D]


----------



## Guest

> _Originally posted by DCBluesman_
> <br /><b>FIRST NEGATIVE RESULT:</b> (edited but all relevance retained)
> _ used BLO/shelac finish on the pen,followed by Butchers wax(it's advertised as bowling alley wax containing carnauba)
> I wanted to see what your finish would do to liven it up.
> Since you said it could be used on cars I coated all the pieces.
> ....in the process of buffing out the filigree in the center band I took all the gold off the band itself.
> The band is now silver.( I have a jeweler friend who will replate it for me.)
> I am chalking it up to my error but maybe you should warm others.
> I normally buff out my pens on the lathe with a buffing wheel chucked into a hand drill.
> It's possible that my wheel was contaminated but regardless caution should be taken on plated parts.
> Like I said, my mistake, not the fault of the finish._
> 
> My take on this is:
> 1. I do not advise using TSW-1121 with other waxes.  I'm VERY familiar with Butcher's Paste, having worked with it for 6 years in the bowling alley business.  It's a great wax, but full of polishing compounds (it takes the scratches off the lanes).  Combining the polishing compounds with the poly in the TSW-1121 may have resulted in "polishing" the gold-plate right off of the pieces.  So far, none of the other testers have had this problem.
> 
> 2. A long buffing of the product is unnecessary, even to reach a glass-like gloss.  Less than a minute will bring out all the gloss you will get.  If you want more depth to the finish, wait 24 hours after the first coat and add a second.  Each coat adds depth.
> 
> 3. For those of you using buffing wheels, be sure to keep them for exclusive use.  Tripoli, Diamond, carnauba and TSW-1121 all need their own wheel.  Contamination can cause awful results.
> 
> This being said, I apologize to the tester and offer, as I have stated before, to replace the kit as well as the blank.  I still stand behind this stuff, but please be advised.




I originally sent Lew an e-mail to tell him this happened.<b>In NO WAY do I blame his finish for this occurance</b> and told him so in my e-mail.
I Use Butchers wax in the shop for a lot of different purposes and am normally happy with the results.
This morning while waxing a pen display I looked on the can of wax and it said "White Diamond"
I had never noticed that before.
That means the buffing wheel I was using to buff the pen was contaminated with the Butchers wax.I only use that wheel for final buffing of my pens, or anything else I use Butchers wax on.

NOw that that is settled,ANyone now how to get the center band off a Perfect fit Pen?[]


----------



## Guest

Applied D.C's formula to 5 pens last night and buffed this morning.
All results were EXCELLENT!
One piece in particular was a power point pencil made of lignum vitae(thanks to ILIKEWOOD)
I knew a CA/BLO finish on this pen would drive me up a wall so I opted for BLO.
Wet sand with BLO 320,400,600 grit.
Burnish in with viva paper towels till my fingers burned.
Micro meshed from #3to #9
I applied DC's formual at 8:00 last night and buffed it out at 8 this morning.
It looked good with the BLO,but it looks great with The magic STUFF!
This will be a good test because I intend to use it as my shop pencil[] and it will take abuse.I will make successive applications as the week progresses.


----------



## DCBluesman

Hey Chuck.  I finally figured out what happened.  If you left the finish on the bushing for 4 minutes, it just hardened on.  It shouldn't cause any problems with the bushings and they may even be a bit slick.  If it keeps happening, try wiping the excess off after just 1-2 minutes before the carnauba starts to harden. The finish will have sufficiently bonded to the blank by then. [8D]





> _Originally posted by C_Ludwigsen_
> <br />Thanks for the reminder about waiting 23 hrs, Lou.  I'll do that.
> 
> The bushings did not stick at all (as in glued), it discolored them a bit (as in BLUEd) [].  No big deal though, they're just bushings.  I put it on a silver pen kit with no discoloration at all.
> 
> Okay, I'm tired, headed to bed.


----------



## C_Ludwigsen

COOL.  That makes sense.  I'll report the results from 3 pens with the TSW on it this evening.


----------



## Doghouse

Here is another non pen with TSW.  

Should we be refering to this as a finish enhancer?  It appears that it is not being used on raw wood, but a full finish is being applied and then TSW is being used to enhance / maintain the finish?  

CA/BLO is a finish, I am using the Beall system, others are using carnuba wax.  Hmmmm.  Just a thought.


----------



## DCBluesman

That's one beautiful bowl, John...you did yourself proud.

As for how to categorize TSW-1121, I really have no idea.  I've come to think of sealer/shellac/carnauba, CA/BLO, sealer/poly/Ren and the like as finishing products.  When I've talked about it to others, I usually mention that it is primarily a top coat.  That being said, I've used it on raw wood (olivewood and rosewood), over sanding sealer only (amboyna burl and afzilia XY-Lay), shellac (plum), WB lacquer (apple and black/white ebony), and numerous combinations.  All of them seem to work well.  The only reason that I suggest a "bottom coat" at all is to seal everything up good.  It may not be necessary, but I'm erring on the side of caution for now.  Maybe I'll just call it a <b>Trade Secret for Wood</b> and let folks use it the way the want!


----------



## Guest

So far the Lignum Vitae/BLO finish us holding up where Krystal Coat would have worn away through just a couple of hours.I applied a second coat last nite and it buffed to a higher gloss today.
I have a question for testers who have had experience with REN wax.
Since I just started turning in June, I have not had the opportunity to try a lot of finishing products.
How does TSW(the magic stuff) differ from REN wax?
The TSW seems like a winner to me and no sense trying anything else at this point.


----------



## DCBluesman

Some new observations and answers to questions.  

_Have you considered adding anything to cut down on the "cure time" so that it would not be necessary to wait 12 hours for buffing?_

The carnauba in TSW is the highest concentration of pure, white carnauba in any polish/finish that I have been able to research.  Softening it with additives is what sets the curing time.  Right now, it appears to be in the five-minute range.  That's why it is suggested that you wipe off the first coat within 1 minute.  I have tried buffing at 5 minutes with very good results.  I'm not certain that the carnauba is 100% cured, but I do not get any secondary glazing.  If you try a short drying time, know that you can always add a new coat if you are not satisfied.  For those of you who like to experiment, go for it!

_What is the maximum coates you have put on any pen pencil?_

I have a tester pen that I've put 5 coats on.  It's brazilian rosewood and the depth of finish is beautiful.  I can see grain that wasn't as obvious when the wood was bare.  I have not really seen any change from coat 4 to coat 5, but I will probably keep adding to see what happens. BTW, I dropped it in a parking lot a couple of days ago, picked it up and wiped it off.  I couldn't see any damage whatsoever.  I would also be interested in seeing if second coat application can be made in less than 24 hours.  The reason I set this is because the finish softens the lower coat a bit so they bond well.  Looks like I need another tester pen!  If anyone tries this, please post results.  [8D]


----------



## DCBluesman

Here's my two cents on Renaissance Wax and the differences between it and TSW-1121.  

Right off let me start by saying that I have used Renaissance Wax on at least 30 pens.  I think it is a great product.  It imparts a tremendous gloss when applied correctly.  It adds a layer of protection to both the finish of the wood and the finish of the metal parts.  From the research I've been able to do, it is a microcrystalline polymer.  What does that mean?  It means it's a plastic coating.  The fact that it's microcrystalline means that it has polishing capabilities and that it will impart a hi-gloss.

When I was working on TSW-1121, I was looking for a more "controllable" finish/polish.  The pure white carnauba was key for me in that it could be lightly hand-buffed for a natural-to-satin finish, or it could be vigorously hand- or machine-buffed for a glass-like finish.  I then looked for a way to soften the product so you wouldn't be sticking a hard bar of wax against a well-sanded piece of soft wood, only to find that it left new "marks" to be re-sanded.  The third component needed was a polymer to protectively coat the metal components.  I have kept this additive to extremely low levels in order to make sure that I was not plastic coating the wood.  I also worked very hard to find a polymer that had no negative information from EPA.  The final thing was to impart a light scent that was pleasant to work with.  Due to the fact that there is only a tiny amount of polymer in the product, I did not have to overcome the "-ene" smell associated with Renaisance Wax.  

That being said, I believe that TSW-1121 is a much harder finish, providing a higher level of protection than Renaissance Wax.  I also believe that it allows the craftsman much more leeway in creating the level of gloss he or she desires.  Finally, the scent is a whole lot easier on the nose. 

As a final thought for this post, I am conducting this test, wholly at my expense, because I do not want to make claims based on my intent or my experience.  I expect you testers out there to throw everything you can at it.  If it stands up to your worst, then it just may be a better product than Renaissance Wax.  If it doesn't, I'll be working on TSW-1122!  

I hope that answers some of the questions and cannot wait to hear from the folks out there using this stuff on all of the various pen-making materials.  

Be blunt and honest, folks.  My ego can handle it.  [8D]





> _Originally posted by Eaglesc_
> <br />So far the Lignum Vitae/BLO finish us holding up where Krystal Coat would have worn away through just a couple of hours.I applied a second coat last nite and it buffed to a higher gloss today.
> I have a question for testers who have had experience with REN wax.
> Since I just started turning in June, I have not had the opportunity to try a lot of finishing products.
> How does TSW(the magic stuff) differ from REN wax?
> The TSW seems like a winner to me and no sense trying anything else at this point.


----------



## pssmith

Lou,

Just curious, do you have any expectations of the "project" also having benefit to keeping cast-iron shop tables (machine table tops) clean and smooth (as some other waxes are used for).  Understanding that the applicability here is for pen finishes, expanded functionality can only help if it's already in the "brew" from a marketing perspective, although I'm sure not the priority of your experiment.


----------



## DCBluesman

Funny that you should mention that, Patrick.  I've used it on a couple of toolbeds to protect the surface and, hopefully, make them slick as can be.  So far, so good.  If I know you folks, someone else is probably already doing the same, as well.


----------



## C_Ludwigsen

- Item description: Premium Designer Pen (Parker mechanism)
- Wood type(s) - Red Mallee Burl

- Pre-finish if applicable - Had to stabilize small voids with CA early on.  BLO at 1000, dried overnight
- Pre-finish sanding grits - 220, 320, 400, 600, 800, 1000 (BLO)
- Finish application notes including bonding wait time - Sprayed with Deft Lacquer spray and set to cure overnight.  Rubbed on small amount thoroughly and waited 3 minutes. Wiped clean.  I think I need to apply slightly higher quantity and only let it set 2 minutes.

- Post finish notes, wait time, observances - If it starts to dull with fingerprints, buff it.  The shine comes back every time.  Unlike other finishes that have truly dulled.  Very nice.
- Buffing steps used - desired sheen (semi or high gloss) - High Gloss
- Assembly notes: No issues, no fingerprints.
- Opinion and reasons - Great.

Image (I apologize for the fuzzy pic, tripod was in the wife's car).


----------



## Scottydont

Lou, It sounds great. I can't wait till you release it to the forum members for general consumption.


----------



## Guest

> _Originally posted by scott m_
> <br />Lou, It sounds great. I can't wait till you release it to the forum members for general consumption.


You mean you can eat it too?
(It smells great!)


----------



## DCBluesman

I almost took a header off my stool when I read that!  Thanks for the laugh! [8D]





> _Originally posted by Eaglesc_
> <br />
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Originally posted by scott m_
> <br />Lou, It sounds great. I can't wait till you release it to the forum members for general consumption.
> 
> 
> 
> You mean you can eat it too?
> (It smells great!)
Click to expand...


----------



## darbytee

Lou, I'm really enjoying the TSW and have had nothing but great results. To this point I have used it on about a dozen pens and will use it on a maple burl bowl as soon as it's done (unless I blow it out TOO!). I think I could give you much better feedback if you sent me another 5 or 6 ounces of it. [] I'll even be gracious enough to pay for the shipping. Seriously though, this is a really good product you've got.


----------



## ryannmphs

- Item description: Slimline pen
- Wood type(s) - Black Wood

- Pre-finish if applicable - None
- Pre-finish sanding grits - 220 - 1000
- Finish application notes including bonding wait time - Applied TSW waited 1 min, then buffed off.  Follwoing morning, applied second coat of TSW waited then buffed off.

- Post finish notes, wait time, observances - Very nice. I did not buff to a high gloss and the finish never showed finger prints 
- Buffing steps used - desired sheen (semi or high gloss) - Semi Gloss
- Assembly notes: No issues, no fingerprints.
- Opinion and reasons - Great.

I would post a pic of the pen but unfortunalty during the last buffing process the lower pen tube cracked, dag nabbit.  Oh well, I've got a few other pens that are just waiting to get on the mandrel.  I will post those results shortly.

Ryan


----------



## DCBluesman

<b>All of my spots for testers are full.</b>  Thanks to those of you have expressed interest.  Keep reading this topic to get the results.

I expect that TSW will be available for sale exclusively to IAP members by Thanksgiving.  Keep watching this space. [8D]


----------



## C_Ludwigsen

I used the TSW on a Designer pen during this weekend's demonstration.  Sanded to 600, sanding sealer, Friction polish, then TSW.  Looked great.  Can't take a picture because one of the attendees insisted on buying it right then and there!


----------



## GregMuller

A newbie question. What are you useing for a sanding sealer and for the friction polish.


----------



## C_Ludwigsen

I'm using the Mylands Cellulose Sanding Sealer and Friction Polish.


----------



## PenWorks

Lou, just read about the TSW, keep me in mind when a batch comes in. Your Statesman pens will ship tomarrow. I read you bowled on the tour. I always wondered if you were not in the top 25 how they made a living. I've bowled for 30 years, just now cut back do to me knee & elbow pain. I really miss it.


----------



## DCBluesman

I'll make an announcement here, and then post on the proper Board when TSP is available.  As for the bowling, I starved, but I was young and didn't notice. [8D]  Oh, and I did make a few bucks as a hustler.





> _Originally posted by penworks_
> <br />Lou, just read about the TSW, keep me in mind when a batch comes in. Your Statesman pens will ship tomarrow. I read you bowled on the tour. I always wondered if you were not in the top 25 how they made a living. I've bowled for 30 years, just now cut back do to me knee & elbow pain. I really miss it.


----------



## Efletche

Lou, I used the TSW on my first cigar pen yesterday, using Australian Coolibah Burl. I sanded thru the micro-mesh and applied one coat of friction polish before applying your finish. The pen came out sooo sweeet! I have received many comments on it. Here is the pen, if anyone wants to see it.



<br />


----------



## DCBluesman

That's a beautiful pen, Edward.  Thanks for taking a picture of it before someone "greenmails" you out of it! [8D]


----------



## jkirkb94

Lou, I have been keeping up with this link and I too would be interested in the TSW when you have it available.  Kirk [8D]


----------



## penhead

Three EZpens for were requested by someone.

All three were sanded to 600 then quick trip through MM.

The Olivewood on the left was then Myland sanding sealer and then TSW. Next night another coat of TSW and buffed.

The two mesquite had only friction polish and then TSW.

Thanks,
JohnPayton




<br />


----------



## wdcav1952

Lou, 
Like most of us, I am interested in TSW when you market it.  At present, I am using the Enduro water-based sealer and Poly followed by Ren wax.  If I follow the ideas presented here correctly, TSW should work well here in place of the Ren wax?
Thanks,
William


----------



## DCBluesman

I have a single instance reported of TSW possibly not working well with Enduro and am awaiting further testing and results.  One thing to keep in mind when crossing poly's is that they are often at odds with each other unless the first coat is fully cured.  With poly, that usually means a full 24-hours.  It sets up quickly, but the internal movement takes a while to stop.  The poly in TSW is no different (even though it's a minute amount.  I have tried a couple of other poly based products and so have the testers with no negative results.  I eagerly await a more definitive answer on the Enduro.  [8D]





> _Originally posted by wdcav1952_
> <br />Lou,
> Like most of us, I am interested in TSW when you market it.  At present, I am using the Enduro water-based sealer and Poly followed by Ren wax.  If I follow the ideas presented here correctly, TSW should work well here in place of the Ren wax?
> Thanks,
> William


----------



## wayneis

As long as I give it the full twenty four hours then it seems to work ok, the only thing I notice though is the is the slick feel and the pen and the plated parts don't show fingerprints as easy.  As far as gloss and depth goes, I don't think that you can get much better than enduro.  I was getting good results with CA but did not get the depth I get wih the Enduro and I also like the soft feel vs the hard feel of ca.  After I add the TSW I have to be carefull because its a little on the slippery side.

Wayne


----------



## Old Griz

I have a question about using buffing wheels... when the TSW had dried 24 hours like recommended do you just use a dry buffing wheel to get the final finish or do you use a wax impregnated wheel... I am considering buying a buffing system... to date my "buffing system" has been elbow and old tshirts.. LOL... 
Also what buffing wheel is recommended for the final buffing.. I have seen flannel and a bunch of others..


----------



## DCBluesman

Thanks for the update, Wayne.  The high gloss finish will produce a "smooth-as-glass" finish that can be a bit slick.  Hmmm...maybe that's why I prefer the satin finish.  The "no fingerprints comment is coming through loud and clear.  I don't know about the rest, but that's a big plus for me.  [8D]





> _Originally posted by wayneis_
> <br />As long as I give it the full twenty four hours then it seems to work ok, the only thing I notice though is the is the slick feel and the pen and the plated parts don't show fingerprints as easy.  As far as gloss and depth goes, I don't think that you can get much better than enduro.  I was getting good results with CA but did not get the depth I get wih the Enduro and I also like the soft feel vs the hard feel of ca.  After I add the TSW I have to be carefull because its a little on the slippery side.
> 
> Wayne


----------



## DCBluesman

You missed a post somewhere, Tom.  You only need wait 4-8 hours for the final buff.  A twenty-four hour wait is only needed if you decide to do more than one coat.  As for buffing, do not use a wax impregnated wheel.  TSW IS carnauba wax.  I mostly hand buff with lint free cotton, like a t-shirt, but I know others who use the third buffing wheel of the Beall system, a cotton buffing wheel attached to a hand drill and others.  [8D]





> _Originally posted by Old Griz_
> <br />I have a question about using buffing wheels... when the TSW had dried 24 hours like recommended do you just use a dry buffing wheel to get the final finish or do you use a wax impregnated wheel... I am considering buying a buffing system... to date my "buffing system" has been elbow and old tshirts.. LOL...
> Also what buffing wheel is recommended for the final buffing.. I have seen flannel and a bunch of others..


----------



## penhead

I made a slimline of Dymondwood tonite per request of someone.

Normal sanding through 600 then quick trip through MM.

Not sure what I was thinking (or maybe I wasn't) but I didn't realize I had used TSW to polish it untill after I had already put it together.

Nice shine actually, so i



<br />s that gonna work or do I need to start over..??

Thanks,
JohnPayton


----------



## DCBluesman

You shouldn't have any problems.  I've used it on bare wood for several pens.  You may want a second coat is all. [8D]


----------



## penhead

Also made a couple of wild cherry stoppers and a wild cherry slimline per request.

Both stoppers and pen were sanded through 600 then MM.

Both stoppers were Myland sealer and then TSW.
Pen was only TSW.

Thanks,
JohnPayton




<br />


----------



## DCBluesman

The majority of my testers have now had the product for a month.  While many have posted pictures and results, I truly need the rest of you to let me know how it worked.  There's a suggested format earlier in this thread.  Thanks!  [8D]


----------



## Scottydont

> _Originally posted by DCBluesman_
> <br />The majority of my testers have now had the product for a month.  While many have posted pictures and results, I truly need the rest of you to let me know how it worked.  There's a suggested format earlier in this thread.  Thanks!  [8D]



Everytime there is a post with a pic showing your finish I start to drool. I can't wait till you release it to the forum members! In the mean time I will sit on my hands.


----------



## penhead

Couple more pens: 

the Cigar pen is an Ambroyna Burl from David Borek. The finish, well, I was trying something a local woodworker asked me to try. Its a combination (he says) of BLO/Poly/turpentine. I personaly wouldn't use it again but thats just me. To save it and get it to respectable in my opinion I then used DC's TSW potion.

The comfort pen is black/white ebony again from Borek. Used a light spray of shellac, then the Beal system (all three wheels) and then finished with DC's TSW potion.

Thanks for looking,
JohnPayton





<br />





<br />


----------



## William Young

Hi Lou;
I am so embarrased to report this but I had asked you to send my sample to my USA address rather than my Canadian address because it would get there quicker.. Shortly after that we went on a camping  trip to USA for several days and I picked up a bunch of mail at my US , PO box on my way  through . I thought I had read all that mail and when we got home I took it all in the house. (at least I thought all of it).  I have gone over the border a dozen different times since then and your sample was never there so I figured it had got lost in the mail.
So today I was taking my backup batteries out of the van and winterizing the plumbing etc. and guess what. There beside the water tank was your parcel.  How it ever got in there I havn't a clue but it was sitting there all lonely and shivering in the cold ;-) 
Now finally I can try your product but with all the  positve results you have had so far , it appears as if it is a first rate product.
Sorry for the goof up on my part on missplacing the sample.
W.Y.


----------



## DCBluesman

Gee, William.  I NEVER have those kinds of problems. []  I'm thinking of doing my first clock later this year.  I'll probably let you off with a warning, as long as I can count on one free consultation.  Anyway, I still value your opinion, so please let us know how it works for you. [8D]


----------



## William Young

Lou;
I finally got caught up with some orders of fretwork clocks and got back to turning a few more pens. I tried your product on a purpleheart and a teak and a dymondwood pen and the first thing that  comes to mind  is WOW ! ! []
Rather than fill out a full report like so many others have  I am going to take a shortcut and say that all the positive responses you have got so far are quite agreeable with me. I can't find any negatives in that product.  I do WB laquer finishing on my pens and have been using Johnsons paste wax as a little extra protection as a final step  The WB finish has a  clear glass like finish and the paste wax would dull it ever so slightly. But with your product I didn't loose any of the inherent gloss in the WB laquer finish. It isn't easy to get a higher gloss than a clear glass like finish I get with WB laquer but I beleive your product actually did acheive  a slightly higher degree of shine.  That is the kind of final gloss and protection combination that I have not found in anyone elses product.
The nice smell of yours was also a surprise bonus.
I beleive you have a fine product there and I wish you every sucess with it.

I wiped these 3 with a kleenex just before taking the picture. That is what the white flecks are. I was too lazy to start over and wipe them with a lint free cloth like I should have done in the first place. Pictures sure  have a way of showing up things that  you don't see when  you are actually taking it.
W.Y.


----------



## Doghouse

Here are some of the latest "PC" turnings.




The stoppers and wing-ed bowl were overnight buffed





Bubinga hollow-form, dried 2 hrs and buffed




<br />

Spalted poplar platter (13" my largest yet) dried overnight and buffed.




<br />
Lastly, a small maple burl bowl with stoppers all dried over night.  The "PC" can even be used on epoxy, I used it to enhance the turquoise on the paduk captive ring stopper.


----------



## Scottydont

Hi Lou. I just tried your new bug juice and man it is the best pen finish I have used yet! I have some pens I am turning for gifts and I will post pics when I am done. Thanks for a great product!


----------



## Guest

Hey Lou wasn't I the one who suggested "Presidents Choice"?


----------



## jimr

Lou, I was one of your very satisfied testers. When is your stuff going to be available or have I missed the grand opening? I do want to get it.
 Jim R


----------



## Gregory Huey

After reading the praises of your new finsh product I only have one question. When will it be available?


----------



## DCBluesman

Can't wait to see your pics, Scott.  And yes, Eagle, you were the first to suggest that name.  Jim R and Greg, it's available in the Business Classifieds...Trade Secret for Wood.


----------

