# More help with Celtic knots plz.



## Aces-High (Oct 5, 2017)

To achieve a bigger circumference on my knots, do I start with a wider blank?  The knot I just made for a sierra pen is to skinny, it would have worked for a slimline, but not big enough around for a sierra.

Thought?

And Thanks!

Jason


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## Cwalker935 (Oct 5, 2017)

Aces-High said:


> To achieve a bigger circumference on my knots, do I start with a wider blank?  The knot I just made for a sierra pen is to skinny, it would have worked for a slimline, but not big enough around for a sierra.
> 
> Thought?
> 
> ...



What angle are you using?  If I understand your question, a wider blank will not help.  You will get a larger knot with a longer diagonal on your blank.


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## magpens (Oct 5, 2017)

A picture would help, please.

I think Cody is right in suggesting that you may have to consider the angle you are cutting.


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## Aces-High (Oct 5, 2017)

Cwalker935 said:


> Aces-High said:
> 
> 
> > To achieve a bigger circumference on my knots, do I start with a wider blank?  The knot I just made for a sierra pen is to skinny, it would have worked for a slimline, but not big enough around for a sierra.
> ...



I have tried, so far, 35 and 45.  Pic on left is 35 with the bushings, pic on rt is 45.

I used 3/4 inch squared pen blank on both.


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## Aces-High (Oct 5, 2017)

Here's the pic



View in Gallery


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## Brian G (Oct 5, 2017)

I think 52° is about right for a Sierra or clone.  That's also what I use for the upper on a Cigar.


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## Brian G (Oct 5, 2017)

Here's how it looks on a Sierra.



I frequently use 7/8" blanks to give me a little leeway for shaping the barrel.


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## magpens (Oct 5, 2017)

Jason,

I think it all depends on what YOU as the artist perceive as attractive.

In the left pic that you posted, you used 35 degrees for a double knot. . Looks good to me (if alignment is improved)

In the right pic, you used 45 degrees and I don't like it as well as the left, but it is OK and looks attractive enough.

In Brian's first pic using 52 degrees for a multi-loop knot (I think it is 8) and it looks terrific and I think he won a prize for that pen.

I assume Brian's second pic (Sierra) is also 52 degrees and, again, it's terrific again, for, this time, a double knot.

It actually depends on more than the size of the pen, and more than the angle. . It also depends on the number of laminations and the thickness of the laminations, in addition to the number of knots.

I guess only multiple trials will get you to what YOU like.  Keep at it ... you're doing great ?


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## Aces-High (Oct 6, 2017)

magpens said:


> Jason,
> 
> I think it all depends on what YOU as the artist perceive as attractive.
> 
> ...



Mal,
Thanks for reply. 

As I am new to Celtic knots, I'm trying to figure out what is the right angle or size of blank that I need to turn down so that the finished knot is bigger around.  The pic on the left, I had to turn down too much to see the complete knot.  You understand?


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## Brian G (Oct 6, 2017)

The starting size of the blank doesn't determine the size of the knot.  Whether 1", 7/8", or 3/4" the size of the knot on the finished barrel will be the same, unless you decide to settle on an inelegant, portly, finished barrel.

The more acute the angle, the smaller the knot.

One advantage of using a larger blank is that you have a better chance to recover from tear out, which WILL happen, prior to final shaping.

Most of the time, I start with a 7/8" blank.  For the 8-loop above, it was slightly less than 1" because I needed to mill it to an octagon first.


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## magpens (Oct 6, 2017)

Jason,

If you have already looked in the IAP library and found these Celtic knot tutorials (and you probably have), then you can ignore this post:

http://content.penturners.org/library/techniques/celticknot.pdf

http://content.penturners.org/library/tools_and_jigs/celticknotjig.pdf


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## NVSB4 (Oct 7, 2017)

Aces-High said:


> As I am new to Celtic knots, I'm trying to figure out what is the right angle or size of blank that I need to turn down so that the finished knot is bigger around.  The pic on the left, I had to turn down too much to see the complete knot.  You understand?



Jason, If you are having issues with being able to see the full knot, you can either use a larger blank, or cut closer to the edge of the blank when inserting the knot material.


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## dogrunner (Oct 7, 2017)

Here's a 55 degree knot

View in Gallery

 May be this will help
http://www.penturners.org/forum/f179/heres-my-celtic-knot-set-up-136806/


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