# Cryogenic Turning Tools



## Grampy122 (Apr 14, 2012)

Has anyone tried using a Cryogenic turning tool? I saw the TAX-DAY FORTUNE SALE at Woodcraft and decided to get a 1/2" spindle gouge. What had made me try one was I had bought a set of kitchen knives that were cryogenic and they are super sharp and cut very easy.


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## Ed McDonnell (Apr 14, 2012)

When I first started turning I bought a few Sorby HSS gouges and a bunch of chinese tools (from woodcraft).  I eventually replaced all the chinese tools with thompson lathe tools, which  include cryogenics as part of their tempering process.  Here's my conclusions after years of use:

1) I would never buy chinese tools again.  I wouldn't use chinese tools even if you offered to pay me to use them.

2) The thompson lathe tools ("TLT") are noticebaly harder steel than the Sorby HSS ("SHSS").  This is really obvious during sharpening.  The TLT are a lot tougher on the grinding wheel and will groove it if I'm not careful while sharpening.

3) Both the SHSS and TLT sharpen to a razor sharp edge.  With really tough woods on large turnings, the TLT lasts longer between sharpenings.  In pen turning,  I don't see any difference between the two.  Probably because I always sharpen before starting a new pen, and a pen (wood, resins, whatever) doesn't involve enough turning to wear out the SHSS edge .

4) I would not pay a premium for cryo tools over good quality HSS.  Fortunately the thompson lathe tools are a great value.  After years of hard daily use, I still haven't had to replace one.  But when I need a new tool, that's what I'll get.

Ed


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## juteck (Apr 14, 2012)

I've found the same with the Thompson tools - last longer between sharpenings than my HSS Sorby. For cryogenic treated tools, I like the Thompson tools better than the Henry Taylor "Kryo" tools.   That said though,  I still love my Sorby HSS bowl gouge, probably because I'm most comfortable with the shape of the flute and the grind I finally have on it.  For other HSS tools, I've had good luck with the P&N tools, and I've heard good things about the Packard 2060 HSS tools.   Agreeing with Ed, the premium of the cryo tools may not be worth that extra value over good HSS tools for pen turning, but the Thompson tools are a good value and worth it.  Besides, you get to learn a new project and turn your own handle for the Thomson tool!





parklandturner said:


> When I first started turning I bought a few Sorby HSS gouges and a bunch of chinese tools (from woodcraft).  I eventually replaced all the chinese tools with thompson lathe tools, which  include cryogenics as part of their tempering process.  Here's my conclusions after years of use:
> 
> 1) I would never buy chinese tools again.  I wouldn't use chinese tools even if you offered to pay me to use them.
> 
> ...


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## Jim Burr (Apr 14, 2012)

I know Doug Thompson's stuff is cryo treated and some of the best tools I use...I still use my 3/8" V gouge for pens...why not!


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## el_d (Apr 14, 2012)

Doug's got some nice stuff and a great guy to deal with.


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## juteck (Apr 15, 2012)

I was just looking at the Woodcraft website -- I assume you picked up a Pinnacle cryo tool?  Keep us posted on your thoughts on it -- I haven't used any Pinnacle brand tools yet, and am interested to hear some feedback on how you like it.


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## Ed McDonnell (Apr 15, 2012)

When I referred to the chinese tools I bought at woodcraft (that I would never buy again) I was talking about pinnacle.  I notice that Woodcraft is now advertising them as being made in Sheffield (which is presumably in the UK and not some  knockoff city in China).  Maybe they are better than the tools I bought (which were not cryo) years ago.  Look at the steel.  If it is stamped HSS China, then good luck.  Sticking a handle on chinese steel isn't "made in sheffield" in my opinion.

Tool steel has a lot of components that are critical to the performance of the steel.  Things like chromium, tungsten, molybdenum, vanadium, and cobalt.  If some chicom factory boss decides to substitute dog turds for some of the more expensive elements to save a buck on production costs, then the steel isn't worth anything.

You couldn't pay me to use pinnacle tools.  But that's just me.  The prices on the pinnacle cryo tools at woodcraft don't even look very good.

Ed

Who, having read what he just wrote, admits that he is not being objective and has a very strong bias on the matter.


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## Grampy122 (Apr 15, 2012)

*Pinnacle tool*

The tool has a label that says Crown tools   made in Sheffield England.  I also had a fortune cookie with a slip for 15% off.


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## Ed McDonnell (Apr 15, 2012)

Grampy122 said:


> The tool has a label that says Crown tools   made in Sheffield England.  I also had a fortune cookie with a slip for 15% off.



You should be happy with your crown tool.  

Ed


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## bitshird (Apr 15, 2012)

Doug makes the finest Gouges, and scrapers there are. is new 15 V series I haven't tried, but with 15% vanadium they are going to hold an edge a long time, IF they don't encounter something embedded in the wood. I have a few of Doug's tools and my favorite is my Jimmy Clewes gouge.
 Carbide is nice, but turning with one of Doug Thompson's gouges is an amazing thing, and a lot of fun, plus a great way to develop a higher standard of skill in bowl/spindle turning.


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## frank123 (Apr 15, 2012)

I've never used cryogenic treated turning tools but one of my other hobbies is knife making and I do cryogenic tempering of some of the knives I make.

Some steels respond well to cryogenic treatment (usually done as a part to the heat treating process in between initial quenching and final tempering) and some don't.  Some (not most) require very specific treatment procedures or nothing of note happens.  Most just require what amounts to tossing in some liquid nitrogen at some point after heat treating.

Cryo treating can produce edge retention on some tool steels of as much as 500 or so percent or as little as 0% on others.   Cryo by itself is sort of meaningless other than as a selling point for the tool, but some tooling made from some steels will have dramatic results from it.  You have to know the reputation of the toolmaker for using those steels to get the most benefit, steel that doesn't respond just has more cost with no benefit.

You can pretty much cryo anything after the fact, so next time you have some extra liquid nitrogen with nothing to use it on, try soaking one of your tools in it and see if you notice any improvement or not.


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## SCR0LL3R (Apr 15, 2012)

Here's a little infoRead* "Cryogenics, why is it so important?"

*at Thompson Lathe Tools


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## keithbyrd (Apr 15, 2012)

bitshird said:


> Doug makes the finest Gouges, and scrapers there are. is new 15 V series I haven't tried, but with 15% vanadium they are going to hold an edge a long time, IF they don't encounter something embedded in the wood. I have a few of Doug's tools and my favorite is my Jimmy Clewes gouge.
> Carbide is nice, but turning with one of Doug Thompson's gouges is an amazing thing, and a lot of fun, plus a great way to develop a higher standard of skill in bowl/spindle turning.


 
I have Doug's tools including the 15V series and love them.  You can't  find a better tool or a better guy to deal with - IMHO!


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