# Design Software



## NJturner (Jul 23, 2021)

Thanks to Hannah and the group buy for taps and dies, I am now ready to jump down the rabbit hole of custom pen making. I've been building kit pens for some time and other than worrying about bushing diameters, I've not really thought about many other measurements to create a pen. Building a custom pen is a bit different, as I know I have to allow for nib and section sizes, thread pitches, wall thickness, etc, etc. 

So, my question - there are lots of measurements and design considerations for a good pen. Does anyone use or recommend a CAD or design program for laying out their pens? I've used Sketchup for some flatwork in the past, but I am not real good with it. But I don't want to burn through lots of blanks working out all the clearances and measurements I expect to use to create repeatable custom pens.

Thanks all!


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## Penultimate (Jul 23, 2021)

Hi,
I use Autodesk Fusion 360 for pen design. It is free for hobbyists i.e. users not using it for a business. It is a good  3D program with a lot of YouTube training vids.
If I was going to do it over again I would start with FreeCAD. It is also free and has no user limitations like Fusion. It works off a different modeling paradigm than fusion 360 that’s why I haven’t switched over. For me it would be starting over to learn new workflows. 
There is no guarantee that any of these programs will continue to be free. I started with free 2D Draftsight because it was exactly the same as AutoCAD. They switched to pay platform, fusion 360 has continually taken away features and added limitations like only 10 drawings can be editable at a time. Not a big deal if you are a hobbyist.


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## Bats (Jul 23, 2021)

I haven't done a lot of kitless work, and what I have done was all ballpoint, but I generally use Fusion 360, too (having started with it when the free version had less limitations). That said, it's probably not going to be any easier to learn Fusion than to learn more about Sketchup.

Also, I entirely agree with Penultimate about the precariousness of Fusion's "freeness" - it seems like every time I turn around they've taken away yet another set of features. FreeCAD's another story - since it's actually open source rather than just being offered free out of the "goodness" of some massive company's heart - but I have yet to actually work with it.


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## EricRN (Jul 24, 2021)

I use sketchup.  Took me awhile to get the hang of how to use it, but once it clicks it’s pretty intuitive.  When I felt that I was good enough, I upgraded from the free to the intermediate “shop” version.


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## duncsuss (Jul 24, 2021)

Graph paper, pencil, and eraser works fine for me.

My general principle is to start at the innermost dimension (often the threads for the nib housing, but not always) and work out adding clearances as I go.


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## eharri446 (Jul 24, 2021)

Another one that I use is TinkerCad.com. It is free and has a series of lessons that you can work with to learn how to use it.


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## PatrickR (Jul 24, 2021)

Adobe illustrator. I have it, know it and it’s very accurate.


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## pssherman (Jul 24, 2021)

I also got taps and dies from Hannah's group buy. Since I did not know what the dimensions should be, I used Alibre which is real easy to use. It was not free but I got it for working on a commercial project. There may be a trial version available. I started by taking measurements of the nib (#6 JOWO), feed and converter and creating a 3D model of it. Then I designed the body, cap and finial to fit it. The attached files show what I came up with using a G5 clip from Turner's Warehouse. I haven't made one yet so there may need to be adjustments. As you can see, everything fits and is real close.


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## Bats (Jul 24, 2021)

duncsuss said:


> My general principle is to start at the innermost dimension (often the threads for the nib housing, but not always) and work out adding clearances as I go.


This is also good to mention. I usually start at the outside, work inward, then discover something doesn't fit and I have to scrap the whole mess and start over.


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## NJturner (Jul 24, 2021)

Thanks all for your reply's! PSSHerman - your drawings are amazing! Thanks for sharing...

Dunksuss - I'm kind of a pencil paper guy myself, but with tolerances of .5 mm I think something more might be a help. I like that a model can be built in CAD and used as a reference, but I surely would prefer to be turning than learning cad......we will see!

Gonna give FreeCad a shot. Thanks again!


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## duncsuss (Jul 25, 2021)

NJturner said:


> Dunksuss - I'm kind of a pencil paper guy myself, but with tolerances of .5 mm I think something more might be a help. I like that a model can be built in CAD and used as a reference, but I surely would prefer to be turning than learning cad......we will see!



And that's exactly why I choose to draw with a pencil. Many years ago I started my first job out of college as an electronics design engineer and had to design a test stand for the temperature controllers my company manufactured. The mechanical designer said he'd help me if I wanted but didn't insist - to this day I remember his only caveat: "If you can draw it life-size with a sharp pencil, the machinist will be able to build it." Basically he was telling me not to design something beyond the capabilities of the person who had to make it.


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## Pierre--- (Jul 26, 2021)

If you are not used to it, the time you need to learn how to draw with a computer (and the time you need to get the $ to buy what you need for that) is nearly the time you need to make 15 custom pens, to learn from your mistakes, and to know how to do without drawings, just a few figures laid on the corner of a piece of paper. CAD is helpful for mass production, not for custom pens in my opinion especially if you are not used to it: "repeatable custom" is just an oxymoron I guess, can't see how it could be a goal. Of course, I understand that learning to use a computer can be fun...

Sorry, it was not an answer to your question, just my thoughts about computer designing for kitless... Just jump down the rabbit hole!


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## Ironwood (Jul 26, 2021)

I’m with Pierre on this. A paper notebook and a pencil is what I use to quickly jot down a few dimensions I am going to use.
Unless you are going to be using the CAD pictures to aid in sales on a website or market stall, I can’t see the need for them.


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## PatrickR (Jul 27, 2021)

While I agree that it is not necessary to use software, I find it very useful in visualizing, and especially to determine tolerances. Some of the blanks i have been making recently leave little room for error and drawing it accurately at full size lets me know if I want to pursue it or not. 2d is sufficient. Learning 3D software just for this is overkill.


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## NJturner (Jul 27, 2021)

Again, thanks for all who are responding. I'm used to measuring and modeling pretty much everything I build. I'm a big fan of paper and pencil, and agree with lots of the comments here regarding this method. But - tolerances on putting together a good custom made pen are pretty tight. As PatrickR said well, seeing the visualization of the pen and seeing required clearances is something I find helpful to improve. A 2D drawing will give me this, whether the lines come from a pencil or a computer. I'd rather not be guessing as I go along - which drill? How deep? Will this break?  I'm also casting a transparent blank for my first few attempts so I can see the clearances inside the body and section of the pen. As an avid fountain pen user, some of my 'must haves' in a pen are a smooth transition from body to cap when closed. I'm not a fan of a transitional bump of any real size. I also like a postable cap. These two items mandate tight tolerances to accomplish and still offer good strength of construction.

I'll stylize the outer shape as I go, but if the ink pump doesn't fit, or the cap threads shear off because they were too thin, those are indicators of a 'design on the fly' or just not a well thought out effort in my eyes. My statement on 'repeatability' was to those things in the pen which must be perfect each time, and do not change - the nib size, the thread sizing, the clearance for the ink pump, the pen balance. I think drawing it out will help.

Again, thanks to all who offer their thoughts - its helping me work through the challenge! Different is not bad, just something to make you think!


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