# PRICING FOR PENS 13 year old turner



## Cody Winters

Hi i am about to make my first fountain pen and i would like to no what i should price it at. I am going to turn a Chrome Olympian fountain pen. And i was thinking of doing it in acrylic. :question:


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## wildbill23c

First of all welcome to the forum.  Great to see someone this young interested in pen making.  

For pricing, as I've been just getting into this selling business myself, it can be quite frustrating.  If you plan on selling them locally depending on where you live, it can be a hard battle.  Price them too high and you won't sell any, price them too low and you won't make enough money to recover cost of supplies.  

Your best bet is to write down and add up the total cost of your supplies, the pen kit, pen blank, etc.  Total all of that up, then figure up how much time it took you to make it, and factor in a bit of money for yourself in the time it took you to make it.  Then if you are selling them and have to ship a pen, figure in an additional cost for shipping as well.  Fountain pens can be tricky, not very many people use them anymore, so the clientele is going to be hard to find.  Acrylic pens usually will bring in quite a bit more money just because of the coloring schemes available.  I'm seeing that particular pen kit about $10.  Now the issue is, you probably have to order it as you don't have an actual store where you can purchase it locally.  So now you have to figure the cost of having that shipped.  Your best bet is to order several kits at a time.  Then average out your shipping costs between all the pens.  So possibly you may be at about $13 for each pen kit.  

Here's what I'd end up with if I was doing what you are:

$13  Pen Kit
$5    Acrylic Blank
$5   Time in turning/finishing/assembly
______________
$23 Sub Total W/O Shipping
$5   If you have to ship a pen to someone.
______________
$28 Total W/Shipping

Now I'm not saying your time isn't worth anything, I'm just making my pens more for the hobby, and if I sell a few great.  So I don't charge much ($5) for my time, it really doesn't take very long to make a pen start to finish, usually you can do 2-3 an hour and sometimes even more depending on your speed.  

I really hope some of my rambling helped you out some.


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## nava1uni

I would imagine that it will take a fair amount of time to turn, finish and assemble the pen.  Not to be discouraging I would encourage you to make a few pens before you begin to sell them.  Since this will be your first fountain pen it may take you a while to become proficient in making them.  I don't know how long you have been making pens but it took me quite a while to make pens that were of a quality that would be worth selling.  Make sure that the quality of your work is the best that you can do and when it is then think about pricing.  I sell my fountain pens for $75.00 to begin and they go up in price depending on material, finish and nib.


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## wildbill23c

nava1uni said:


> I would imagine that it will take a fair amount of time to turn, finish and assemble the pen.  Not to be discouraging I would encourage you to make a few pens before you begin to sell them.  Since this will be your first fountain pen it may take you a while to become proficient in making them.  I don't know how long you have been making pens but it took me quite a while to make pens that were of a quality that would be worth selling.  Make sure that the quality of your work is the best that you can do and when it is then think about pricing.  I sell my fountain pens for $75.00 to begin and they go up in price depending on material, finish and nib.



How did you arrive at the price?  Do you sell online?  Reason I'm asking is because I'm just getting into selling myself, and having issues trying to price things.  Are you using really expensive kits, or how do you figure prices generally?


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## joefyffe

Wildbill:  Not to be a smarta$$, but if you can only charge five bucks for your time, your pens are probably worth what you are charging.  If you are making two or three per hour, I can almost assure the finished product is worth no more than that.  It really ticks me off when turners price pens at 20 and 30 dollars with 10 and 15 dollars of their money invested.   If you are into it as a hobby, how about just giving them to friends so the rest of us can  make a living?  If you are making a quality product, and you have invested 30 dollars in materials, you should  be able to reap 75 bucks minimum, and some of the higher end names on this site will say, I'm being too generous.  Don't sell yourself short, my friend,  make a good pen and CHARGE  for it!  That is the end of my rant!


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## joefyffe

P.S.  Stay away from 24 k. gold.  I'ts junk!   If that's what you're using, your pens are probably not worth more than 20 bucks.  Now this really is the end of my rant!


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## thewishman

Post a picture when you finish it and we'll be able to give you a better idea on the pricing.


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## Holz Mechaniker

Well personally if the young man who is I assume is 17 or 18 nowadays was selling on the high end 

Pens For College youtube Video


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## Smitty37

joefyffe said:


> Wildbill: Not to be a smarta$$, but if you can only charge five bucks for your time, your pens are probably worth what you are charging. If you are making two or three per hour, I can almost assure the finished product is worth no more than that. It really ticks me off when turners price pens at 20 and 30 dollars with 10 and 15 dollars of their money invested. If you are into it as a hobby, how about just giving them to friends so the rest of us can make a living? If you are making a quality product, and you have invested 30 dollars in materials, you should be able to reap 75 bucks minimum, and some of the higher end names on this site will say, I'm being too generous. Don't sell yourself short, my friend, make a good pen and CHARGE for it! That is the end of my rant!


Joe, what I sell my pens for has zero impact on what you can charge for yours?  I think a lot of folks who sell pens live with what I consider to be the mistaken notion that if I sell a pen for $25.00 they will have a hard time selling a similar one for $50.  

That isn't the case at all, I recently sold an order of pens for $25.00 each that most sellers here would probably priced at $45.00 or more.  Even at that I had a better margin than I have on the kits I sell.

Now, the buyer was not going to buy those pens from you or anyone else, nor was he doing price comparisons with other pen turners.  He came and looked at my pens, decided they (the pens) would be suitable for what he had in mind (Christmas gifts for a group of people both men and women) and gave me an order.  My competition in that case was not other pen turners, it was anybody selling gift items suitable to his purpose within his price range.

Value of time - to me it is what I could get for alternate use of the time. If it is time I would otherwise have spent watching the idiocy on the boob tube then I probably should be paying the customers.  The pen making time is so much better spent.


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## greggas

Every time  someone posts about pricing it inevitably leads to the " you have no right to tell someone what they should charge in their market" posts.

This is true.... although I wish folks would remember the internet is everyone's market before they sell their pens at less than material costs ! 

This young man is just starting ( I assume) to work for money. I think it is  better to teach him to charge a fair price for his efforts than to  advise him to work for less than the minimum wage.  But that's just me 

Good luck Cody

P.S. if you really start to sell pens on a regular basis I would start at  3-4 times your total material ( kit, blank, sand paper, finish material, tax, electricity, wear and tear on equipment, shipping) costs.


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## healeydays

Folks,

*Please remember that a 13 year old just getting into pen turning asked the question.  Please don't scare him off as we want to encourage the next generation, not discourage...*

  I had a sales at a "crafts fair" at the place I am doing some consulting work at, and even though I could have gotten a lot more for them elsewhere, I priced some very nice Sierra/Mesa pens at $25 so that these folks, who process insurance claims and don't make a ton of money could give a nice pen to someone special for the Holidays.  At other locations, I would price these at $50-$75 depending on the materials.  

  Bottom line, sell to what your market can bear.  If you can sell high dollars, go for it.  If you don't have a market for that, plan accordingly by either making the decision not to sell at all or find a new market.

  Sorry if I upset the folks who try to make a living on this, but you can't sell a Porsche to someone who just wants to haul around the 4 kids and get groceries...

Mike B


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## LanceD

If you're just getting started I would not even think about selling my first couple of dozen pens or even more until you become proficient on your fit and the quality of your finish. As stated above, give most away to friend and relatives and learn from each one you make. Then after you feel that you could put out a quality pen, fit and finish wise then start selling them at a cost you feel they are worth.


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## Chasper

We have a forum called Marketing & Shows.  Only members can go there.  Discussions about pricing should take place on that forum.


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## wildbill23c

joefyffe said:


> Wildbill:  Not to be a smarta$$, but if you can only charge five bucks for your time, your pens are probably worth what you are charging.  If you are making two or three per hour, I can almost assure the finished product is worth no more than that.  It really ticks me off when turners price pens at 20 and 30 dollars with 10 and 15 dollars of their money invested.   If you are into it as a hobby, how about just giving them to friends so the rest of us can  make a living?  If you are making a quality product, and you have invested 30 dollars in materials, you should  be able to reap 75 bucks minimum, and some of the higher end names on this site will say, I'm being too generous.  Don't sell yourself short, my friend,  make a good pen and CHARGE  for it!  That is the end of my rant!



Ok, so how do you guys figure on making a pen a $75 pen, when you only have about $15-20 tied up in it?  Surely you aren't paying yourself $40+ an hour to make the pen.  

Any links or places to visit that shows a good demonstration of different quality and pricing?  Curious how that works.  

Thanks for the info as well, always good to hear back on what something should be priced at and how its going to sell.  I think my issue is the lack of a market.  Even online its not working.


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## Smitty37

My observation at this site is that a lot of folks forget Economics 101 when they discuss pricing.  That's no surprise, most of the folks here never took Economics 101.  Failure to instill an adequate understanding of Economics and our economy is (in my opinion) a major short coming of our educational system.  It is almost ignored completely below college and not required for many degrees.

That btw is not a new thing caused by education going down hill, in fact, it was probably worse 50 years ago than it is today.


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## Tieflyer

I've been in retail manufacturing my entire working life, starting in 1982. Rule of thumb right now is the 3X rule, a third to cover cost of supplies, a third to cover labor and a third to go back into the company. This is a guideline and market response will have to be considered. I can make a slimline with a good friction polish finish in no time and sell it handily for a low price. I can make a good Sierra style and NOT be able to get 3X because that pen isn't what my market wants. My market, low end craft shows, wants functional art at affordable prices. Pens are a supplement to my other turnings because my other turnings sell better. I do rely on kits, exclusively still, and can't be competition for someone making custom kitless. We're not in the same market. Pricing is subjective, customers are fickle and skill sets vary. My pens are made fast and my quality is high and consistent. Can I make  $75 or more per pen?  Absolutely. Is that for the majority of my current target market?  No.  I make what I believe they will buy. 

To the original poster...start at cost times 3. Add a box and shipping if needed on top. THEN determine if your target market will pay for the product you're offering. Adjust accordingly.


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## glenspens

Do you look at yourself as 1: laborer if so  then add all your stuff up and add in your mark up an put a price on or 2: artisan/craftsman if so then you decide what you are worth(or your goods are worth ) and go with it , if someone else see what you see then it will move if not then you have a choice to make. as for the new 13 year old turner goes i say.. X2or3 or what he has in kit and blank so he can buy another kit and blank ......keep on turnning  ....just how i see it


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## wildbill23c

Awesome information guys, thanks.  I'm just starting out, and have thus far turned a few dozen pens, I admit the first 6-7 went in the scrap box LOL.  However, I was learning at the time and figure mistakes are going to happen more so early on than later as I have learned from past mistakes.  

Many of you have far more knowledge than I have especially on the business side of things, yes, I took economics in high school, but that was all a blur, hardly remember anything from it unfortunately.  I have some small business books from a small business course I took, I think for myself its time to get to studying and comprehending what I have forgotten.  

Thanks again everyone.


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## Haynie

Age is beside the point.  If your pen can stand up to another, made by an adult, it should command the same price. 

 If I was your age and wondering this I would contact a pen maker in your area, or close to you who sells pens.  Many of us do not.  Ask that person to give you a real world once over of your pen.  It might hurt but you will grow and you will KNOW your pens can command the high prices or what it will take to make it so.  Good luck.


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## tjseagrove

Try looking at www.PensInk.com - Home for some inspiration.  She is around 13-14 and has been making pens locally for a few years.


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## wildbill23c

Wow you guys are awesome with excellent advice.  Thank you.


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## kovalcik

Go to a few craft/art shows and look for pen turners.  Note their pricing, what they are selling, the quality of their work, and their selling methods. Watch to see how they do.  If you see a slow period, you can try talking to them (usually very early  or very late in the day).  Some people are more open than others regarding sharing marketing strategies with other turners.  I will gladly talk to other turners at shows, just don't be offended if I excuse myself a few times to talk to customers. 

Different environments and locations will have different types of customers. In the end, you have to set your inventory and price your pens to match the customer.


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## Mike Powell

I sell mine 3 x kit price + blank+ 10.  For lower end kits  for better ones it just depends on how hard it was for me to make it  The most expensive I have sold is a classic FP for 50, that was made of Olive Wood.


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## Tage

Cody, good for you.  My son started turning and selling pens at age 11 when after he saw a Wood Magazine article on penturning (about the young man linked to earlier).  He started selling Slimlines and Trimlines for $15 to friend and family and that's probably what his pens were worth.  Now he's 14 and did his first small craft show in December.  The pens he does are generally more expensive (he does well with Sierra's, Atrax, and the occasional fountain pen).  His pricing formula has changed too.  Typically he uses the 2.5 to 3 times materials rule to keep it simple.  Some pens he adjusts up or down from there.

The gist of my advice is start simple and go from there.  You will do well.
Good luck.


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## GDGeorge

I've been using this as my "rule of thumb." It's from an article and seemed to fit my needs:  

3x the price of the kit 
Plus
5x the price of the blank
Plus
a markup depending upon the kit. The markup starts at $5ish (for a low-end thinline)  and goes up depending upon e the pen itself, the finish, and the market.

If it starts looking to high or too low to me, I modify the price accordingly.


Here are a couple of links to the stuff I read (in addition to this site!) before settling upon this formula. The Timberbits blog article is short and sweet!

http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/woodnews/2009april/goingpro.html

http://www.timberbits.com/blog/?p=197

Cheers,
J


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## Waluy

I went a slightly different route. I chose a number I wanted to make off each pen. For me this was $15 then add price of kit rounded to the nearest $5 then add price of the blank rounded to the nearest $5. 

Then if I notice a certain kit is not selling at the desired cost I either lower what I want to make or more likely don't make that pen anymore except on custom orders.

EDIT: The one exception to this pricing is the bolt action as I asked for $50 for the first one and immediately sold it and 3 other custom orders for them. So $50 seemed like the best price for them.


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## wildbill23c

Awesome answers everyone.  Thank you very much.  I am in category B, I do it for more or less a hobby, and like others if I sell one great, if it sets around the house for a while before someone wants it, fine.  

P.S.  Just sold a Bolt Action Pen like the picture of the one I made that I posted in the show off your pens under the "My first Bolt Action Pen".  A guy at the feed store saw my mom filling out a check with it and wants one.  So out to the shop I go.  I like when stuff like this sells right off the bat, it makes me feel better, and gives me an idea of what is most popular.


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## Cody Winters

thanks i will have a pic soon


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## wildbill23c

Cody Winters said:


> thanks i will have a pic soon



Can't wait to see the results Cody.


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## edicehouse

It's all about what you are comfortable with.  Some people here will get $100 for a pen and you would be lucky to get $35.  I imagine some will not turn on their lathe for under $50.

If you are satisfied with making $1 dollar on a pen, then price it at that.  Just remember if you blow up a blank and you have $1 profit margin, you lose money.


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## wildbill23c

Where is a good place to find a list of Pen Shows around the country?


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## Holz Mechaniker

there are 14 pen show
the first is in Philadelphia that is happening next weekend.

the others are located throughout the U.S.

Please note,  unless your doing kit-less fountain pens or kit-less pens in general.  or you have a massive collection of vintage fountain pens. Or have an account with Twsbi, Montblanc, Pilot, Pelikan, Lamy, (just to name a few) Chances are you will NOT do much if any business with anything made from a kit. DAMHIKT.  


some of the other that I know of are the DC pen show  Ohio Pen show, Chicago, Los Angeles, Detroit    From those you may find the others.   
Good Luck


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## Tage

Cody,
One other piece of advice.  When you have a few pens in stock, create an Etsy page.  My son does not sell a lot of pens on Etsy, however, it's an inexpensive place to send people to see samples of his work and it lends credibility to his business.  People are generally impressed when they go to the site and see a logo and "professional" presentation.  It gives him a bit more credibility.  We came up with a load of $5 to $7 to defray Etsy and Paypal fees for any pens he does happen to sell there.


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## keithbyrd

I use a very simple formula on excel - plug in the numbers and get an answer then adjust based on market, uniqueness etc etc
Pen Cost 	 $20
Labor/Hr     $45
Mark Up      1.5
Time           1.0
Labor Cost   $45
Price             $97.50
cost = cost  of materials in pen kit, blanks, sand paper, glue, shipping etc
Labor is what I would have to charge as a business person to make my time worth it
Mark up generates the profit on the cost (material and labor)
Time equals time to produce
Total labor cost = labor x time
Price = cost+labor cost x markup


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## Smitty37

keithbyrd said:


> I use a very simple formula on excel - plug in the numbers and get an answer then adjust based on market, uniqueness etc etc
> Pen Cost      $20
> Labor/Hr $45
> Mark Up 1.5
> Time 1.0
> Labor Cost $45
> Price $97.50
> cost = cost of materials in pen kit, blanks, sand paper, glue, shipping etc
> Labor is what I would have to charge as a business person to make my time worth it
> Mark up generates the profit on the cost (material and labor)
> Time equals time to produce
> Total labor cost = labor x time
> Price = cost+labor cost x markup


Don't let the tax man see that....


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## keithbyrd

[/quote]Don't let the tax man see that....[/QUOTE]
Not being a  tax man - what is wrong with this?  Don't want to create any problems for my self!


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## Smitty37

A sole proprietor can not figure a salary or cost of their own labor into the cost of their business. So both the price of your labor and the markup you're making on it would be considered "gross profit".


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## keithbyrd

Smitty37 said:


> A sole proprietor can not figure a salary or cost of their own labor into the cost of their business. So both the price of your labor and the markup you're making on it would be considered "gross profit".



DUh!
I knew that!  Been too many long days!:redface:


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## wildbill23c

Well apparently nobody in Idaho makes pens, or uses or sells them because there aren't any pen shows here in Idaho of course, closest one would be Vegas, and with only 1 day off from work a week that ain't gonna happen.


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## Dan Masshardt

wildbill23c said:


> Well apparently nobody in Idaho makes pens, or uses or sells them because there aren't any pen shows here in Idaho of course, closest one would be Vegas, and with only 1 day off from work a week that ain't gonna happen.


no competition  woo hoo!


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## wildbill23c

Dan Masshardt said:


> wildbill23c said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well apparently nobody in Idaho makes pens, or uses or sells them because there aren't any pen shows here in Idaho of course, closest one would be Vegas, and with only 1 day off from work a week that ain't gonna happen.
> 
> 
> 
> no competition  woo hoo!
Click to expand...


That's what I thought, but every time I go to Woodcraft there's always people in there buying pen kits.  Had a guy tell me the other day that he's seen the bolt action pens around town, next time I see him I'll ask him where, because I've never seen them anywhere.  Gotta get some display cases and get my pens out there first .


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## Jjcold

*Don't sell yourself short*

I, too, am just getting into the selling end of my hobby.  I have sold quite a few, but had to lower my expectations a bit .  However , I would not sell even a Slimline for only $5 for my time and skill.  
One formula to strive for is called "the 4 quarters model". Add up your materials, then quadruple it.  For my current market, I find I can't price quite that high.  But most of the time I get very close.  More like 3.5 quarters!

Pens make great gifts, and if yours are done right, friends, relatives, neighbors and teachers and many others will scoop them up because YOU made them.


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## Indiana_Parrothead

Wildbill, I think that you are looking for the wrong kind of shows. You don't want to look for pens shows, that is going to be very very high end pens. I think that you want to look for either arts and crafts or "art" shows depending on the market you want to hit. The arts and crafts shows for the most part are going to be lower cost items and the art shows higher. But may art shows are juried meaning you have to submit samples of your work to get accepted and the booth fees at these can get very high. 

Mike


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## Monty

wildbill23c said:


> Well apparently nobody in Idaho makes pens, or uses or sells them because there aren't any pen shows here in Idaho of course, closest one would be Vegas, and with only 1 day off from work a week that ain't gonna happen.


Do a search on craftlister.com for shows close to you.


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## wildbill23c

Tons of shows of different types, my problem is working 6 days a week there isn't much going on to get out and do on Sundays.  Going to try and get a few of the Bolt Action pen kits made and get set out at work because everyone seems to really love them...which is great if people would just stop loving them and buy some LOL.  

Anyhow that craftlister is pretty useful though.  

As for pen shows I was just hoping there would be one close to where I live as I'd enjoy going through that to look around at stuff I can't afford.  However, I'm not really sure what you would classify hand-made pens under is it really art, is it crafts, LOL.  Depends on the person looking at them I would assume.  To me it would be a craft, but then again if you start making exotic type pens out of acrylic then maybe it would become art if you are making your own acrylic blanks mixing colors and that sort of thing.


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## plano_harry

Welcome Cody! I think Chris had the best suggestion. First pens can vary a lot in quality. If you post a picture in Show Off Your pens, we can give you feedback on how well made it is. Age is not a limitation, but skill is acquired by making more pens. If your turning is a traditional shape, matches the components perfectly, and you use a durable finish like CA or similar, (except not on acrylic) you should be able to get a very good price for your work. 

Depending on your customer, you may get bonus points for your age - or they might discount your work - could go either way. If your customer appreciates pens, they are used to paying for it and expect a quality product to cost them some money. If they are not pen buyers, then $10 is going to sound like a waste of money.

I charge 2x what the kit and material normally cost and then I charge $25 per tube for my time and expertise. Assuming $10 kit, $5 blank, I would sell that for $80 plus any shipping that might be required. If I have an unusual blank, the price goes up. Even at $40 you can make a nice profit and start to grow your business. Always make sure your customers know how to refer others to you. Nine people that see it, probably wouldn't pay the cost of the kit, but that 10th person will pay your price. One thing seems pretty certain - you won't get more than you think it is worth.

Good luck with your turning. Show us the picture :wink:

Harry


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## wildbill23c

plano_harry said:


> Welcome Cody! I think Chris had the best suggestion. First pens can vary a lot in quality. If you post a picture in Show Off Your pens, we can give you feedback on how well made it is. Age is not a limitation, but skill is acquired by making more pens. If your turning is a traditional shape, matches the components perfectly, and you use a durable finish like CA or similar, (except not on acrylic) you should be able to get a very good price for your work.
> 
> Depending on your customer, you may get bonus points for your age - or they might discount your work - could go either way. If your customer appreciates pens, they are used to paying for it and expect a quality product to cost them some money. If they are not pen buyers, then $10 is going to sound like a waste of money.
> 
> I charge 2x what the kit and material normally cost and then I charge $25 per tube for my time and expertise. Assuming $10 kit, $5 blank, I would sell that for $80 plus any shipping that might be required. If I have an unusual blank, the price goes up. Even at $40 you can make a nice profit and start to grow your business. Always make sure your customers know how to refer others to you. Nine people that see it, probably wouldn't pay the cost of the kit, but that 10th person will pay your price. One thing seems pretty certain - you won't get more than you think it is worth.
> 
> Good luck with your turning. Show us the picture :wink:
> 
> Harry



I completely agree.  I live in a town full of people that want hand outs.  They will go to the store and buy a package of junk pens for a couple bucks, lose or break half if not more of them, then throw the pen away when it runs out of ink and go do the same thing with another package of pens.  

Given that you are pretty young, your ability to sell these items will be more popular because its something that a kid made.  I'm not trying to put you down for being young, I think its great to see people your age making stuff like this rather than running around town causing trouble.  Many people will look at it as being made by hand by a child, they gotta buy one.  Then they tell their friends, their neighbors, etc.  and pretty soon you may end up having to spend quite a bit of time in front of your lathe LOL.


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## rthines

I take the cost of materials double it and add 10% to that.  Then I add the turning time at the rate of around $20.00 per hour.  My fountains and roller balls start at $75.00 and go up.  Have fun and if your demand goes up so should your prices!  Good luck!


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## wildbill23c

rthines said:


> I take the cost of materials double it and add 10% to that.  Then I add the turning time at the rate of around $20.00 per hour.  My fountains and roller balls start at $75.00 and go up.  Have fun and if your demand goes up so should your prices!  Good luck!



Wow, I was just figuring pretty much the same number for a fountain or rollerball pen.  

I figure that the slimline pens are only about $10 each, they don't take much time and effort LOL.  I've got a lot of people inquiring about my Bolt Action Pens, and have sold 4 of them so far for $45, nobody has questioned the price either.  I just made a Wallstreet II Pen/Pencil set and priced it at $40 not much work in the Wallstreet pens either but kits are more expensive of course.  Nobody has even questioned any of the prices I've mentioned when they ask how much, and I've been getting a few sales here and there now, so apparently my prices aren't off by much.  I think once word of mouth gets around it will pick up more too.  Also, I haven't done any advertising or anything, just a few friends, co-workers, and family have purchased pens/pencils from me, and of course they get asked hey where did you get that pen or pencil.


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## Tooth and Nail

joefyffe said:


> P.S.  Stay away from 24 k. gold.  I'ts junk!   If that's what you're using, your pens are probably not worth more than 20 bucks.  Now this really is the end of my rant!



I'm new to turning, what is the matter with say, the 24 karat on a slimline
I thought they coat it with a sealer
I did also see that , I believe 10k is more money?


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## Dan Masshardt

Tooth and Nail said:


> I'm new to turning, what is the matter with say, the 24 karat on a slimline I thought they coat it with a sealer I did also see that , I believe 10k is more money?



Don't worry about the karats - just avoid gold.  Go chrome, gun metal...


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## Smitty37

joefyffe said:


> Wildbill: Not to be a smarta$$, but if you can only charge five bucks for your time, your pens are probably worth what you are charging. If you are making two or three per hour, I can almost assure the finished product is worth no more than that. It really ticks me off when turners price pens at 20 and 30 dollars with 10 and 15 dollars of their money invested. If you are into it as a hobby, how about just giving them to friends so the rest of us can make a living? If you are making a quality product, and you have invested 30 dollars in materials, you should be able to reap 75 bucks minimum, and some of the higher end names on this site will say, I'm being too generous. Don't sell yourself short, my friend, make a good pen and CHARGE for it! That is the end of my rant!


  Joe, venue and reputation count.  This is a middle school student.  His time is worth what an alternate use of it would bring in and for most 13 year olds that number is 0, and in fact many alternate uses would cost (probably his parents) money so even a low "wage" added to the kit and blank is appropriate.  BTW I do not share the belief that one persons prices hurt someone elses.  I sell pens locally for a very low price, but I will guarantee that when I make a sale in Milford DE it does not take one away from you out there.  People who usually buy from me don't even know what I'm going to charge them until they've picked a pen.


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## kovalcik

Dan Masshardt said:


> Tooth and Nail said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm new to turning, what is the matter with say, the 24 karat on a slimline I thought they coat it with a sealer I did also see that , I believe 10k is more money?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't worry about the karats - just avoid gold.  Go chrome, gun metal...
Click to expand...

 
You may have noticed that Dan is a tiny bit biased when it comes to gold finishes .  

24K gold is the softest finish available and will wear the fastest.  10K will a little more durable (less gold), but still behind the other finishes as far as durability.  The coated ones are a little better.  Titanium Nitride Gold finish (not sure how much actual gold is in it) is very durable. That said, I have a 24K gold stylus I have been using for about 6 months and it show no signs of wear so YMMV. 

I will use 24K gold for my low end pens or my give aways, but if I am charging someone a decent amount I go for the TN.  IMO some wood blanks really need the warmth of a gold finish to set them off.


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## ottotroll

*a pen is only worth what you feel it is....*



Smitty37 said:


> joefyffe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wildbill: Not to be a smarta$$, but if you can only charge five bucks for your time, your pens are probably worth what you are charging. If you are making two or three per hour, I can almost assure the finished product is worth no more than that. It really ticks me off when turners price pens at 20 and 30 dollars with 10 and 15 dollars of their money invested. If you are into it as a hobby, how about just giving them to friends so the rest of us can make a living? If you are making a quality product, and you have invested 30 dollars in materials, you should be able to reap 75 bucks minimum, and some of the higher end names on this site will say, I'm being too generous. Don't sell yourself short, my friend, make a good pen and CHARGE for it! That is the end of my rant!
> 
> 
> 
> Joe, venue and reputation count.  This is a middle school student.  His time is worth what an alternate use of it would bring in and for most 13 year olds that number is 0, and in fact many alternate uses would cost (probably his parents) money so even a low "wage" added to the kit and blank is appropriate.  BTW I do not share the belief that one persons prices hurt someone elses.  I sell pens locally for a very low price, but I will guarantee that when I make a sale in Milford DE it does not take one away from you out there.  People who usually buy from me don't even know what I'm going to charge them until they've picked a pen.
Click to expand...



I have only been active for 2 months, but in that time I have turned @40 pens. I have given away probably 12, donated a couple and sold 17 more for @$20-$25 each. The reasoning for my pricing is that I am simply trying to my habit (hobby) pay for itself (hopefully). I am getting my practice in, and developing more technique and skill. I actually am "picky" on who I sell to - I want these pens to be "used", not just some trophy in a drawer. A great deal of my payment is in the reaction of the new owner, not just the money (don't get me wrong, I am not wealthy, lol, I will gladly take money.
I cannot understand some people charging $65-$75 for a pen (say for a $7 kit and a half-piece of $4 acrylic) - I can understand that craftsmanhip levels can vary greatly, cost of booths and travel expenses, etc, but.... This is a 13 year old young man - make a quality product, and charge a price that allows you to make a mistake (I have killed many an acrylester block...). I would say to simply charge about double your material cost (@$25), and worry about taking advantage of the market when you are out of college!


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## Darkshier

Well I started my day with the belief I was going to finally make my steampunk tie clip before I came across this article. Needless to say this is was time better spent. It looks like some of my pens are on target as far as some other pens are going for. But really when I started turning there was one thing my wife told me had to happen. If I were to start pen turning I had to sell pens because I didn't need another money draining hobby... I guess I collect hobbies :bulgy-eyes: That being said some of my pens will probably go up in price after reading all of this since I may be scaring away some of the dedicated pen collectors of my area with my low prices. However like many have said "You sell to the customer's price range." Most of my sales are to friends and family and there are times that even I cringe at the price I'm asking (never in front of the customer) but they still sell. Thanks everyone for the advice lots to think over.


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## Smitty37

kovalcik said:


> Dan Masshardt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tooth and Nail said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm new to turning, what is the matter with say, the 24 karat on a slimline I thought they coat it with a sealer I did also see that , I believe 10k is more money?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't worry about the karats - just avoid gold. Go chrome, gun metal...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You may have noticed that Dan is a tiny bit biased when it comes to gold finishes .
> 
> 24K gold is the softest finish available and will wear the fastest. 10K will a little more durable (less gold), but still behind the other finishes as far as durability. The coated ones are a little better. *Titanium Nitride Gold finish (not sure how much actual gold is in it) is very durable. *That said, I have a 24K gold stylus I have been using for about 6 months and it show no signs of wear so YMMV.
> 
> I will use 24K gold for my low end pens or my give aways, but if I am charging someone a decent amount I go for the TN. IMO some wood blanks really need the warmth of a gold finish to set them off.
Click to expand...

The short answer is none...Gold Tn refers only to the color.

With respect to 24K gold - regardless of the people bad mouthing it, it is still world wide the most popular finish for pens....who makes a typical slimline, r comfort, classic, designer, euro, sierra style, or about any other  pen that can't be had in 24K gold if it sells in the popular $3.00 to $15.00 range.


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