# Decals on white carbon fiber



## mbroberg (Sep 8, 2015)

OK, time to use a lifeline.

I am working on pens with the Seal of the State of Ohio on them.  As the title says, I am using water slide decals and white carbon fiber sleeves.  Attached is three views of one blank (actually the best one to date, I've done around 10 of them).

The seal itself turns out fine.  In fact, it has a bit of a 3D effect which I didn't plan for, but that I like.  My problem is with the stripe on both ends.  The stripe is also water slide decal matching the blue in the seal.  I repeatedly get spots and streaks.

I have used both Alumilite (under 60# pressure) and PR resin (both with and without 60# pressure (the pictured blank is PR).

I've tried clear acrylic spray, polyurethane spray and CA to seal the decals before casting.

I've heated molds and resin.

I believe I wait sufficient time for various things to cure (normally 24 hours before I go to the next step (i.e. glue material to tube and wait 24 hours.  Seal and wait 24 hours, etc.)

The blanks show some spotting on the stripes once they are cast and the spotting gets worse when the blanks are turned.

I've slowed everything down (lathe and the sanding disk used for truing the edge) as slow as I can go and still turn, about 1800 RPM, to lessen the heat that is generated.  That seems to have helped some, as I said this is the best one yet, still far from good enough.

The next thing I am going to try is to "paint" the prepared tubes with resin prior to casting, which is what I read that Don Ward does with his snake skin blanks.

Does anyone have any other suggestions?

Thanks,
Mike


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## H2O (Sep 8, 2015)

Are the coatings you've tried a gloss finish? Did you sand them?
Maybe try a flat finish. Most coatings prefer a "tooth" to grab to. I'm thinking the resin would prefer a "tooth" as well.


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## mbroberg (Sep 8, 2015)

H2O said:


> Are the coatings you've tried a gloss finish? Did you sand them?
> Maybe try a flat finish. Most coatings prefer a "tooth" to grab to. I'm thinking the resin would prefer a "tooth" as well.



The acrylic spray is gloss.  The polyurethane is clear satin.  I did not sand.  I will give that a try.  Thanks!


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## D.Oliver (Sep 8, 2015)

I think it has to do with the state you used!:biggrin:


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## mbroberg (Sep 8, 2015)

D.Oliver said:


> I think it has to do with the state you used!:biggrin:



But it is the only one that matters because of this (insert link to the 2016 MPG once we have the website up to date ).  Come April 8th & 9th, 2016 Ohio is *the* place to be!


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## thewishman (Sep 8, 2015)

If it is the stripes that are giving you trouble, have you considered leaving them off? Or possibly replacing them with solid blue resin bands?


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## mbroberg (Sep 8, 2015)

thewishman said:


> If it is the stripes that are giving you trouble, have you considered leaving them off? Or possibly replacing them with solid blue resin bands?



Chris,

Yes, I did make one with just a white tube and left the bands off, it looked blah.  Of course the plain white tube looked boring even with the bands so maybe it would look OK without bands on the carbon fiber.

I never considered resin bands.  I used Photoshop to match the shade of blue in the bands to the blue in the seal, which is really how I would like it.  I have tried some different colored tapes but the color match was off.  I'll keep plugging away at it.  Just ordered more Silmar 41. :biggrin:


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## jttheclockman (Sep 8, 2015)

Just out of curiosity, why CF??? Why not try on a solid blank. It maybe that the CF is poking through the blue. Being the ends of the tube there maybe lose strands. The decal looks wrinkled to my eye with the uneven surface. Whenever i make any of my braided blanks I also precoat before casting. I do this because i actually glue the braiding on with the same resin. Never put a decal over one so that is out of my scope. Good luck.


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## mbroberg (Sep 8, 2015)

jttheclockman said:


> Just out of curiosity, why CF??? Why not try on a solid blank. It maybe that the CF is poking through the blue. Being the ends of the tube there maybe lose strands. The decal looks wrinkled to my eye with the uneven surface. Whenever i make any of my braided blanks I also precoat before casting. I do this because i actually glue the braiding on with the same resin. Never put a decal over one so that is out of my scope. Good luck.



The background needs to be a light color for the decal to show up well.  White shows it the best.  I made a couple with just white tubes and they were boring.  I also made some with foil that I had textured and they actually look ok but still don't really pop.  I like the texture of the carbon fiber and the white allow the decal to show up really well.

Your comment about the end being rough is probably correct.  I have made several Donkey and Elephant blanks (political season is upon us) with a textured foil wrapped around the tube and used decal stripes on them with minimal problem.

I think I will try building the CF up with CA to give the decals a smooth surface, apply the decals, seal and cast.  We will see........thanks for your thoughts.


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## jttheclockman (Sep 8, 2015)

mbroberg said:


> jttheclockman said:
> 
> 
> > Just out of curiosity, why CF??? Why not try on a solid blank. It maybe that the CF is poking through the blue. Being the ends of the tube there maybe lose strands. The decal looks wrinkled to my eye with the uneven surface. Whenever i make any of my braided blanks I also precoat before casting. I do this because i actually glue the braiding on with the same resin. Never put a decal over one so that is out of my scope. Good luck.
> ...




OR you can cast the CF in resin, overturn it a bit and polish. Then add the decals and cover with CA. Probably same amount of work.


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## larryc (Sep 9, 2015)

American Holly for the blank gives you a grain free background and is just enough off-white.


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## Kenny Durrant (Sep 9, 2015)

I like the look of the carbon fiber. When I use cf I glue it to the tube with epoxy and I use a lot of it. I make sure it seeps through and I smear it around to try to seal it up best as possible. Then I reseal it with ca glue and lightly sand away any rough spots. I'm wondering it it's, like you said, fibers poking through or moisture seeping in while wet sanding, if you do that. Good Luck. I hate to bring it back up but Derek might have a good point as well.


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## Skie_M (Sep 9, 2015)

You may also want to make sure that you are applying your decals to a FLAT surface, rather than curved ....


Turn it flat (straight rod), sand and polish, and then apply decals ...  Afterwards, build up with CA till it's above the bushings and the curvature that you want in the finished barrels.


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## wouldentu2? (Sep 9, 2015)

You might try using the white decal paper and cut the seal out with a paper punch ( they come in various sizes around 1 ") . The colors will be more vivid since you won't see the blank thru it and you may not want the blue an each end.


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## Chasper (Sep 13, 2015)

I apply thin coats of epoxy using a fishing rod dryer.  It is a motorized devise that grips the rod handle and rotates it slowly while it drys.  Mine turns at 18 RPM.  I make mandrels out of threaded rod and oversized bushings out of derlin.  You could coat the carbon fiber with with rod epoxy, but it would not be even.  You would need to turn it down, polish, apply decals, then re-coat with epoxy and turn again.  

For something like this I would try applying the carbon fiber, casting it in poly resin, overturning, sanding and micro meshing, then applying the decal and trim.  After that you could apply either rod epoxy or put it back in a mold and re-cast in resin.  You could do both resin applications with rod epoxy, but you would still need to turn and polish between coatings.

You get the epoxy extra thin by heating it quickly with a heat gun.  The heat also removes the bubbles in the epoxy.  I heat with a heat gun before spreading it on the tube and heat it again before it sets with an alachol flame.


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