# WHY STAY at IAP?



## wood-of-1kind (Jul 29, 2010)

There is a rather interesting thread from a fairly new member that advocates leaving IAP and cancelling their membership. The request came since it was "perceived" that the members here are the like the feuding McCoys and that uncivil behaviour is rampant. Those that stick around have realised that this is far from what actually occurs here at the IAP.

Not once during my tenure here would I dream of leaving this great "community". There is just so much to absorb here if you're into pen making. Oh, we bicker and whine, but for the most part that is the "side show" here. What it's all about is the knowledge and skillsets that are so freely shared (for the most part). It's where we come together to see those wonderful show off your pen(s) delights. Where else can you get such fabulous blanks offered at great prices/selection from other members? Where else can you get the insight on how pen parts are plated? IAP is a minefield for activities (PITH), knowledge, marketing (shows) insights, new pen designs coming on board, pen kits that are being phased out. We can go on and on for all the benefits of being here at the IAP.

I choose to stay here and am very thankful to be given this privilege. Hope that 'newbies' and 'veterans' do the same. It's worth it for me. Is it valuable to you? Just in case I've not expressed myself clearly, yah I love being here.:biggrin:


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## elody21 (Jul 29, 2010)

Does anyone really think that putting this many persons with all their different opinions is going to go smooth all of the time?!
Sure we bicker and disagree sometimes, but what family doesn't?
This is the nicest, most generous, most helpful bunch there is
I challenge anyone to find a more informative group.
Alice


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## rTURNERg (Jul 29, 2010)

I agree with what Peter wrote 100 percent. I have learned so much in a short time from the members of IAP. My thanks and support to those who have made IAP an open and free forum.


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## warreng8170 (Jul 29, 2010)

I participate in quite a few internet communities, both work-related and personal, and I can say without a doubt that this is the friendliest, most respectful, and encouraging community I belong to. 

Some of the other places I frequent often have very heated arguments and can get downright hateful. Try visiting a firearm-related site sometime. 

The other thing about this group that I like is very few people try to hide behind the internet cloak of anonymity. Alot of people here share their real names and where they live and even family photos. This I think is what gives the IAP a very unique sense of community. 

Even if I never turned another pen, I think I would still check in on a regular basis just to keep up with all the people on here who, although I have never met, I feel a connection to.

Just my .02.


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## kinggabby (Jul 29, 2010)

I personally think for most things that if you don't like what someone  writes then close your eyes or go to the next post. I know I don't agree  with everything someone else post. But I respect that persons opinion  even if it my not be mine. No matter what everyone else believes they  have the right to believe that. So if I don't like it I can choose to  read it or not. Just my  $.01  on the matter. 
Thanks
Dave


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## Pioneerpens (Jul 29, 2010)

Peter that was very well put!  I love it here and enjoy the people, knowledge, products offered and just the general atmosphere where we all have at least one major common bond. The love/art/craft (whatever you want to call it) of pen turning!!


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## Parson (Jul 29, 2010)

As far as online forums go, I find this one to be nicest bunch of people on the planet! Of course, I do believe the average age here is over 50, and that must have something to do with the civility and respect offered to others.

On no other non-religious forum have I ever seen so many requests for prayer and transparent sharing of deep personal issues AND page after page of gentle responses and offers to pray for the person sharing the deep need or issue.

As an ordained minister, this is just about the coolest thing ever and it really gives me a lift when I see it. Unconditional love and concern for the well being of others, plus cool pictures of pens, the sharing of techniques and equipment, and more!


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## arioux (Jul 29, 2010)

I'll just repost what i posted in the last thread.   My position is the same:

Well i got to agree. There is a lot of "proselytizing" around this site.

From lacquer to CA
From 24k to Titanium
From Allumilite to PR
From slimline to sierra
From sand paper to micromesh
From Rizheng to Dyacom
From casting my how to exoticblanks (you how me for that one Ed)
From mandrel to between center turning
From Ca glue to epoxy

And the list goes on. And you know what? I got the choice. And whatever the choice i make, some will agree some won't. But one thing is sure around here, whatever the choice i made someone will help me when i'm in trouble with it and no one care what my religion, my language or my beleiving are.
So make your choice, we will support you in it, but it will be easier for us if you stick around


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## Jon-wx5nco (Jul 29, 2010)

I joined IAP to *read* and to *learn* from the other members on the forum.  I can't possibly start to tell you how much I have learned from this site.  The work on my pens has improved drastically.  Not to mention the friendships that have been made here.  As far as IAP goes, as long as there is an IAP, I will be an active member!


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## snyiper (Jul 29, 2010)

I do agree with the comments above and can only add that this is a place with a wealth of knowledge and limitless kindness, I doubt you will find as diverse group on the net or in person as giving as this group. Think about it well wishes from all walks of life and all religions and not a single conflict. I do think we have a good mix of us older coots as well as young bucks and that evens things out...Greatest place around bar none!!


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## cnirenberg (Jul 29, 2010)

Jon-wx5nco said:


> I joined IAP to *read* and to *learn* from the other members on the forum.  I can't possibly start to tell you how much I have learned from this site.  The work on my pens has improved drastically.  Not to mention the friendships that have been made here.  As far as IAP goes, as long as there is an IAP, I will be an active member!



I agree 100% with John.  I really wanted to slam that posted thread, but felt I should keep my thoughts to myself.  I'm glad I did, nobody would benefit from that neagativity and rant.  From the IAP I've learned that you get what you put into it and that the principle of paying it forward works here and in the real world.  I have gotten to know a bunch of folks here and consider them friends and appreciate all that they have done to further my skills, knowledge and vocabulary.


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## mredburn (Jul 29, 2010)

I kinda like to start arguments.:biggrin:


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## PaulDoug (Jul 29, 2010)

Well I've been a member for quite a while and I'm embarrassed to admit I got upset once about something said to me (I don't even remember what it was about).  I left for about 6 months, but got to thinking who is getting hurt by this, only me.  I'm was really missing the place so I came back.  Not going to let anyone chase me off, I will ignore those few that just want to cause friction.  This is a great place, I feel I have friends here.  I don't turn many pens anymore, because I don't sell them (how many pens can one have).  I'm trying to expand into other types of turning.  What I learn here helps me do that.


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## Craftdiggity (Jul 29, 2010)

Where have I been???  I didn't see the thread in question.  Has it been deleted?


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## EBorraga (Jul 29, 2010)

The thread hasn't been deleted. It's in Introductions.

I myself have been mad enough to leave, and I did for 4 days. After some convincing by a few members I came back. Then I figured out how to ignore the one's I dislike. Now I don't see any of their posts. That being said there is a lot of priceless info on here (especially the stuff that Skippy does). My turning has increased an enormous amount from stuff and people I've met on here. I also enjoy razzing the hippies on here, as I'm well below the average age of people on here. 

So folks I'll leave you one thought.  I Love This Bar!!!


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## snyiper (Jul 29, 2010)

Yea Chris it was a bit of a flash in the pan.....The idea was great but I think we failed on execution.... you could say we caught the tip of the skew on a segment!!!!!


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## bruce119 (Jul 29, 2010)

Boy I seen this thread when it started before any post. I didn't have time then to comment. I know this is going to be one of those volcano threads that is going to explode.

Now to me this more then just a forum it's a community. There are a lot of members we have for the most part been tight. This forum offers a LOT we all have at least one thing in common we like to make to pens. There is a ton of information here and most are willing to share there hard found techniques. There are some great deals and unique items in the classifieds section. For the most part we trust each other it's kind of like the old neighborhood. But lately it seems like maybe it may be changing a bit. With a lot of new members moving in the history is being lost but I guess that is evolution.

Again to me this is a community of (for the most part) good trusting friends. A place to ask questions, get questions answered, share ideas and techniques, show off your work, find great deals, and just have a good chat.

THIS IS THE BEST FORUM I EVER BEEN A PART OF
it's more like a giant club i just wish we could get more face to face time.

that's my thoughts.


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## Daniel (Jul 29, 2010)

I have so many reasons to be in this group I cannot even begin to list them all.
But most of them have a common root. That is the amazing ethics of ever member of this group I have ever met. I believe that not only does this group constantly push the threshold for penturning. It also facilitates a never ending stream of new turners. IT also has established and held fast to the single most valuable thing in this group, Ethics. No single word sums it up. But this group pushes the threshold of what an internet group can even be. Trust is something that is almost non existent on the net as a whole. But here it is common. Actually reaching out and helping, not with just words. But members actually being there for each other, putting shops back together after disasters. sending free blanks or kits to those that have the desire but not the funds. and more often than not this happens with no fan fair, no public display of any kind. The people here really care about each other.
Are they grumpy at times? Yes but that is actually very seldom in comparison to everything else that goes on. Most arguments are a result of people being afraid the group will be harmed as a whole. seldom do I see people take a stance because of what they will or will not get out of it. Their argument is rooted in it will harm others.
In a way this is saying even when people act like jerks it is to protect their friends. Sort of hard to stay mad at that.

As for uninformed opinion. Well consider the source. We all know who we are.


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## bitshird (Jul 29, 2010)

Craftdiggity said:


> Where have I been???  I didn't see the thread in question.  Has it been deleted?



Chris look in Introductions and the thread was "cancellation" actually it evolved into one of the best and more amusing threads of the summer. I think it broke a lot of the heat related stress and built up vitriolic attitudes, The OP didn't even come back for a look, and if He. She, It did was or should have been quite embarrassed for making such an asinine opening post to begin with. A large time was had by all and it relieved a lot of stress for a bunch of whacked out wood and pen turners.
My view is this is the most Diverse, Charitable, giving group on the internet, and I am very lucky to be a part of it. For some noob to come in and want to rewrite the TOS, is not the kind of member that will help this organization grow, and that’s what it's about Growth and sharing of Ideas and to some extent Culture. Personally I wish the person had stayed around long enough to understand that we are a community of over 9000 members for all over the world, so naturally there are going to be differing, Personally I don't like people that make pens out of Poison Sumac, but I don’t take it upon my self to offer to quit, withdraw or cancel my membership. to each his choice.


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## lorbay (Jul 29, 2010)

*WHY STAY at IAP?* 
Because I love it here, my wife always says "are you talking to your penturning buddies again". YEP.

Lin.


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## Craftdiggity (Jul 29, 2010)

EBorraga said:


> The thread hasn't been deleted. It's in Introductions.
> 
> I myself have been mad enough to leave, and I did for 4 days. After some convincing by a few members I came back. Then I figured out how to ignore the one's I dislike. Now I don't see any of their posts. That being said there is a lot of priceless info on here (especially the stuff that Skippy does). My turning has increased an enormous amount from stuff and people I've met on here. I also enjoy razzing the hippies on here, as I'm well below the average age of people on here.
> 
> So folks I'll leave you one thought.  I Love This Bar!!!



Found it.  Read it.  Loved it.  

Didn't feel the need to respond to the OP, but...oh well, never mind.  Good riddance.  Some people just want/need attention I guess.


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## Rob73 (Jul 29, 2010)

I think of someone truly feels like this is a 'feuding' forum they should cancel their internet, get a work at home job, and never leave the house.   This forum is fairly tame as forum communities go.  Sure people are going to disagree on things.. that's a community. I've seen more heated arguments at holiday dinners and run into more aggressive people at the local gas station. 

 If someone thinks they going to get hundreds or thousands of people together and were all going to be smiling, holding hands and signing kumbya all day and night they are simply naive.


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## skywizzard (Jul 29, 2010)

The IAP is not just a forum, or a community, it is a family.  I don't post a great deal, I have "taken" much more than I have given, I don't always agree with some of the opinions of other "family" members.  That said, this site is one of the most giving, educational, informative and humorous forums I have ever been a part of.   What little skill I have at pen turning I have obtained here.  I have learned techniques, acquired blanks, tools and kits at great prices. I have taken part in "casual conversations" which have broaden my horizons and hopefully help broaden others.  Although I have only met a few members in person, I feel like I know many of you as well as my real family.

Leave the IAP.   NO WAY.....


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## Daniel (Jul 29, 2010)

Ken, Your "Tiny Brain" comment made me actually laugh hard. thanks I needed that. It may be just the way it sounded in my head when I read it but it really gave me a tickle.


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## Rob73 (Jul 29, 2010)

skywizzard said:


> The IAP is not just a forum, or a community, it is a family.




Really, a family..  Hmm,  so Sky I've been thinking I need to redesign my shop and buy some new equipment.  Think you can loan me ten grand, and by loan I mean never expect any repayment.  :biggrin:


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## TellicoTurning (Jul 29, 2010)

I stay at IAP because it's fun to read all the comments and opinions, plus garner all the knowledge of the collective.  We are a lot like the BORG.. a collective mind with a universal purpose... but unlike the BORG, we also have our own minds to express our own opinions... if I run across a thread that's controversial, bickering, or just unpleasant, I have the options of reading or passing.... there is just too much knowledge not to participate.


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## burr (Jul 29, 2010)

All I can say is, while you guys are arguing I am here just for the food, just like those damn family get togethers, now that I think about it how many families can get together and get along for more than a half a day? bet there are not very many. I love this place even if I dont post much.


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## cnirenberg (Jul 29, 2010)

bitshird said:


> Personally I don't like people that make pens out of Poison Sumac, but I don’t take it upon my self to offer to quit, withdraw or cancel my membership. to each his choice, I guess his 2 posts were too much for his/it's tiny little brain to endure



That's good.  I had made chips out of Brazillian Pepper once and I still itch and break out into a rash just thinking about it.....I didn't stop turning as a result.


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## glycerine (Jul 29, 2010)

burr said:


> All I can say is, while you guys are arguing I am here just for the food, just like those damn family get togethers, now that I think about it how many families can get together and get along for more than a half a day? bet there are not very many. I love this place even if I dont post much.


 
Food!?!???!?!???  ...oh, you mean that metaphorically.


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## Jim15 (Jul 29, 2010)

*WHY STAY at IAP?*

*   Because in my opinion it's the best site on the internet.*


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## renowb (Jul 29, 2010)

I like it here. I have learned a lot from IAP! That's my story and I'm stickin' to it!:biggrin:


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## skywizzard (Jul 29, 2010)

Rob73 said:


> Really, a family.. Hmm, so Sky I've been thinking I need to redesign my shop and buy some new equipment. Think you can loan me ten grand, and by loan I mean never expect any repayment. :biggrin:


 
Sure Rob, I will loan to you on the same terms as my "real" family.  Just let me know how much you need and bring all the titles to your property, 2 pints of blood and your first born.... Ah, on second thought you can keep your first born... been there, done that.....


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## soligen (Jul 29, 2010)

We are a great community and I agree with the spirit of this thread.  This leads me to point something out.

We haven't heard anything from Butch (ldb2000) for what? a week now?  Seems he left as fall out from the wussie thread.  I think this is a huge loss to this forum/community.  I sent him a PM about this 4 or 5 days ago and recieved no response.  I wish I had a way to contact him outside of this forum.

Many may not have like his approach, but I feel we should strive to keep people who have made such a huge contribution so selflesly.  I know I owe to Butch a great deal of my learning.

If anyone has a way to contact Butch outside this forum, please do so and encourage him to come back.  

Anyone who is/was upset at Butch, I suggest an olive branch may be in order.


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## panini (Jul 29, 2010)

So much information to learn...Why leave IAP...'nuff said..

P.S.. Great deals to buy things...


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## Russianwolf (Jul 29, 2010)

okay, I've come to a conclusion....... I'm in the right place. You see, I always seem to agree with myself, even when I change my mind.

Now, as for the rest of you. I have to ask you all to leave. :tongue:


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## jeff (Jul 29, 2010)

I love this thread.  :biggrin:


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## bruce119 (Jul 29, 2010)

jeff said:


> I love this thread. :biggrin:


 
*YOUR THE BEST*​ 
*:biggrin::biggrin:WE LOVE YA:biggrin::biggrin:*​


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## ed4copies (Jul 29, 2010)

jeff said:


> I love this thread.  :biggrin:




Why???  I haven't seen ONE entry about the GREAT OWNER or BENEVOLENT DICTATOR!!!!

:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:Bunch of ingrates!!:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:


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## RAdams (Jul 29, 2010)

This is a sweet thread indeed! 

For me, this forum is a wealth of ability. Ability that i haven't yet learned, and hope to get around to one day. 

I have been the center of my fair share of controversy, and continue to be "in the middle of stuff". I have had long email conversations with our Beloved Dick-tater (A little SNL humor there), and even longer phone conversations with peers, and mentors. 

More than penturning, The relationships i am building here are teaching me how to be a man, a father, a husband, and a friend. The people on this site really are family, Even the ones I don't like, or that don't like me. 

I have had heated "arguments" with alot of people on this forum, and pretty much all of em (except the grumpy one) has PM'd me back and forth to the point that we are laughing and carrying on like kids at the end. Even the grumpy one teaches me stuff, rather he likes it or not!!! AND THAT IS WHY I LOVE IT HERE. 

Disagree on casual convo. That is what it is here for, to talk about stupid stuff... But when it all boils down, The same people getting brutal with each other on the wussies thread will be discussing the best alternative for applying CA finish on another thread. 

What saddens me is when we lose valuable members, Like Butch and Gary because of stupid arguments. It is hot, we are all grumpy, but we love each other still. Even if it is a Love/hate relationship!!

So, in closing...... Just in case they are lurking around.........COME BACK GARY....... COME BACK BUTCH......... WE MISS YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## jttheclockman (Jul 29, 2010)

arioux said:


> I'll just repost what i posted in the last thread. My position is the same:
> 
> Well i got to agree. There is a lot of "PROSELYTIZING" around this site.
> 
> ...


 
Now there you go, I am going to have to break out the dictionary. I liked this site because they did not use words I don't understand and now I am going to have to rethink this.:biggrin:  Where did I put that darn dictionary


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## witz1976 (Jul 29, 2010)

Just to be a pain... +1 to all the above, now pass the Kool-Aid.  

Seriously, though I usually HATE forums and on-line groups.  Usually because there is far more pissing and moaning that what goes on here.  This group is by the the most genuine and caring group I have come across. Here's to IAP:beer::beer:


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## jimm1 (Jul 29, 2010)

IGBOK


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## el_d (Jul 29, 2010)

Id still be turning plain grain purpleheart and paduke and probably puting them on a Majestic. Going Ohhhh and Ahhhh like a dummy.

 There is soooooo much knowledge here that you cant let some people who dont share your same opinion get to you.


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## steeler fan1 (Jul 29, 2010)

I realize there is no reason for me to add to this thread but what the hey:redface:. As has been stated again and again, this is truely a unique forum. Like all forums, if one doesn't like it then just go away - simple. After I started reading the "CANCELLATION" thread I got the distinct impression the OP was nothing more than a troll. There are people out there that enjoy causing confusion and strife. 
For me the simplest thing is to just to ignore them. Certainly not going to change my opinion of the IAP, its the best:laugh:.

Carl


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## Jgrden (Jul 29, 2010)

I have laid low and not looked at the Casual Conversation site because it is not casual and people take things a little tooooooo seriously. I'd like to tell a few people off who made comments about my post counts but decided to use IAP for another reason and that is pen building only. No kidding around anymore because some of you are not fun. The only reason I checked in this time is because I have a serious question about gel refills.


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## johnnycnc (Jul 29, 2010)

Good post, Peter.
I hang out here because it is a great community, and fun.
I have made a lot of friends here, and I mean true friends, not just online buddies.
Penturning is addictive, so why not hang with like minded turners!
I have learned so much here, and hope one day to be smart enough to give back.


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## OKLAHOMAN (Jul 29, 2010)

Great post Peter, and I echo Johnny's post.


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## Dalecamino (Jul 29, 2010)

johnnycnc said:


> Good post, Peter.
> I hang out here because it is a great community, and fun.
> I have made a lot of friends here, and I mean true friends, not just online buddies.
> Penturning is addictive, so why not hang with like minded turners!
> I have learned so much here, and hope one day to be smart enough to give back.


 Same here John ! You need to take some time off and come up this way. We'll run down the streetand see Mike Kennedy. :wink:


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## johnnycnc (Jul 29, 2010)

dalecamino said:


> Same here John ! You need to take some time off and come up this way. We'll run down the streetand see Mike Kennedy. :wink:



I know, Chuck. Sorry I haven't seen you for so long.
Ernie was talking coming up, maybe then? 
Yeah, you are not real far away form Mike. That sounds ok, too.


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## Smitty37 (Jul 29, 2010)

*knowledge, knowledge, knowledge*

I'm fairly new here but find this to be a really good site.  You can ask any question about pen turning and in half-an-hour have half-a-dozen answers, hints or opinions.  

I've seen some pretty strong opinions put forth, but so what?  I've had the same peope who disagreed with me in one thread help me out in another and that's the way it should be.

Some folks love to look at pictures of the work that others are doing, and exhibit what they are doing.  I figure if I stay around long enough I might someday post a picture of a pen that I've made, but I doubt it.  Trying to get good pictures of my stuff frustrates me.  But the point is that it gives some of the guys a great deal of pleasure to look and post their own. That's great.

On the other hand, why leave.  If there is something posted that I don't like I can just skip the thread.  

Right now I'm here almost everyday...in my busy season you can make book that I won't be and that's ok too, most of the threads I am most interested in don't need to be checked everyday...if somebody writes how to do something, if I don't see it until a week after it's written, what is lost? Nothing.


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## Smitty37 (Jul 29, 2010)

*good stuff*



johnnycnc said:


> Good post, Peter.
> I hang out here because it is a great community, and fun.
> I have made a lot of friends here, and I mean true friends, not just online buddies.
> Penturning is addictive, so why not hang with like minded turners!
> I have learned so much here, and hope one day to be smart enough to give back.


 
And we also meet a lot of folks like yourself that do just one hell-of-a-job of providing some great additions to our pen turning tools...I've gotten a couple of things from you that three or four months ago, I didn't know existed.  It is nice to deal with folks who are reasonably priced, honest and take pride in what they make....


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## Smitty37 (Jul 29, 2010)

*You too*



wood-of-1kind said:


> There is a rather interesting thread from a fairly new member that advocates leaving IAP and cancelling their membership. The request came since it was "perceived" that the members here are the like the feuding McCoys and that uncivil behaviour is rampant. Those that stick around have realised that this is far from what actually occurs here at the IAP.
> 
> Not once during my tenure here would I dream of leaving this great "community". There is just so much to absorb here if you're into pen making. Oh, we bicker and whine, but for the most part that is the "side show" here. What it's all about is the knowledge and skillsets that are so freely shared (for the most part). It's where we come together to see those wonderful show off your pen(s) delights. Where else can you get such fabulous blanks offered at great prices/selection from other members? Where else can you get the insight on how pen parts are plated? IAP is a minefield for activities (PITH), knowledge, marketing (shows) insights, new pen designs coming on board, pen kits that are being phased out. We can go on and on for all the benefits of being here at the IAP.
> 
> I choose to stay here and am very thankful to be given this privilege. Hope that 'newbies' and 'veterans' do the same. It's worth it for me. Is it valuable to you? Just in case I've not expressed myself clearly, yah I love being here.:biggrin:


 
What I said to John goes for you too Peter...my Rotunda is a great tool...


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## Hucifer (Jul 29, 2010)

I only have one gripe about this forum - I don't have enough time to read everything I want to!
I have learned a lot and appreciate everything that is written - one way or the other.


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## Rfturner (Jul 30, 2010)

there has been some resentments by some members about heated debates but I do know that this is where I go to learn more. There is no other way to learn more or faster than have a big giant family. Do families ever fight? Yes? Go past the arguements keep going.


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## EBorraga (Jul 30, 2010)

I've definately made a lot of friends from this site. Quite a few of them I see once or twice a month. Others that I will soon meet, one way or another, even if Johnny has to buy me lunch on my way through his town:biggrin:. When I had a kidney transplant in January, I received numerous calls from members here that I had only talked to through PM's. Was really mindboggling that someone would take the time to somehow get the telephone number and call. It's truly amazing that a simple penturning forum could bring people from all walks of life together and help one another when they're in need. No amount of money could ever change that. I've talked enough already, so I'll leave it at that.


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## Dustygoose (Jul 30, 2010)

I also have learned a lot in a short time here.  I would have never thought of using some of the stuff used in PR casting I have seen here.  I want to start casting but funding is low atm but the knowledge  of the people here is huge.  I'm staying...lol


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## workinforwood (Jul 30, 2010)

There is a lot less crap on this site than many others, especially when you compare membership levels.  I find the IAP is a very cival place to be.  There are some great resources here, but it's a community beyond just pens.  

If someone wishes to not stay, that's ok with me.  To tell people that they should leave is not ok with me.  Let people decide on their own what they wish to do, and when they do so, I don't need to hear why, just do it.


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## johncrane (Jul 30, 2010)

I think your right Jeff.


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## Rick_G (Jul 30, 2010)

The little bickering I see on this site reminds me a little of when I went back to college after 10 years in the Air Force. It was a special program set up for ex military people so we could get that little piece of paper that seems so important.  After the first month there were only 2 of us left in the class.  An ex army Captain and myself an ex Air Force Corporal.  We shared some of our classes with the kids right out of high school so they kept the program going.  I don't think I ever called him anything other than turkey and it was around Feb. 6 months into the program before the kids realized we were best friends.  Up until then the way we went at each other they were sure we hated each other.  

Although I have never met any of you personally I consider most of you to be friends so if I ever call you a turkey take it in the above light.


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## Jim in Oakville (Jul 30, 2010)

This is a pen forum???  


One day I'm going to have to learn how to make a pen, LOL....oh yeah...


I love this place, just wish I had more time to read it all, amazing crew, from top to bottom....


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