# I'm really hurting...



## Dario (Aug 6, 2006)

...since I average about 3,000 miles a month.  [xx(]

These regular gas price increase is killing me!!! [xx(][V]


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## Ron Mc (Aug 6, 2006)

I feel your pain! Between my wife and 2 sons my gas bill is ridiculous!
It may be time to trade everything in for some hybrid vehicles. I wonder what a hybrid truck looks like?


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## Dario (Aug 6, 2006)

Ron, 

You might want to rethink that (for now).

Due to the premium price of hybrid cars right now...studies showed that the break even point for a vehicle used an average of 1,000 miles a month is 10 years!!!  [:0]

Ofcourse that point is bound to lessen due to the gasoline rate increases and the selling cost of hybrids bound to go down as more manufacturers and models are offered.

I believe we should explore ethanol option more too.


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## dubdrvrkev (Aug 6, 2006)

Well I was feeling that sting too. So I traded my truck for new Honda Fit sport and now I'm averaging 32+ mpg [] and thats city driving with a/c all the time. Parking is a breeze now too, I like small cars. [^]


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## mrplace (Aug 6, 2006)

To top it off Dario, BP is shutting down their operation in Alaska. That accounts for 8% of our oil. 400k barrels a day, cant wait to see how much gas goes up now.


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## jaywood1207 (Aug 6, 2006)

I hear you and feel your pain but I think we are still higher.  We are averaging 1.10 per litre which is just over 4.00 CDN a gallon.


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## rpasto92 (Aug 7, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Dario_
> <br />...studies showed that the break even point for a vehicle used an average of 1,000 miles a month is 10 years...


Does that factor in the tax break you get for owning a hybrid?


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## Dario (Aug 7, 2006)

I am not sure but I know the break was negated (and then some) by the "premium" paid by those who are in the waiting list...atleast for Toyota Prius.  Last I heard, people were paying as much as $6,000 over the MSRP! [:0]

Not sure if this "trend" changed these past few months.


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## kkwall (Aug 7, 2006)

Gas prices in the UK are now terrible.


They have steadily went up and up over the past 10 yrs, and now we are at 97p - Â£1 a litre. thats about $1.70 - $1.90 your money.


It doesnt look as if it's going to get any better either.


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## johncrane (Aug 7, 2006)

Fuel prices are out of control here in OZ the city  petrol price is $1.36 a litre  Country price is $1.50 a litre. Having a car will soon be a luxury thanks to the greedy oil companies and CEO'S[!][V]


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## johncrane (Aug 7, 2006)

just remembered go to GOGGLE and type in ACETONE. there is some very interesting stories  on increasing mpg buy adding very small amounts of Acetone.


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## Dario (Aug 7, 2006)

> _Originally posted by mrplace_
> <br />To top it off Dario, BP is shutting down their operation in Alaska. That accounts for 8% of our oil. 400k barrels a day, cant wait to see how much gas goes up now.



GREAT!!! Just the kind of news we need now... NOT!!! [xx(][]


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## Rifleman1776 (Aug 7, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Dario_
> <br />I am not sure but I know the break was negated (and then some) by the "premium" paid by those who are in the waiting list...atleast for Toyota Prius.  Last I heard, people were paying as much as $6,000 over the MSRP! [:0]
> 
> Not sure if this "trend" changed these past few months.



I believe you are hearing false rumors. The Prius and Highlander hybrids sell for sticker and there is some kind of tax credit. My son has one of each and loves them and saves money on gas. Averages 60 mpg with the Prius and about 26 with the Highlander, a fairly large SUV. There are discussion groups for the Prius where you can check out what's happening with hybrids. BTW, your $6000.00 over list story may come from Hollywood where the wealthy, liberal stars with go to any length to prove they are 'green'.


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## Dario (Aug 7, 2006)

I know about the tax credit $2,000.00 I believe? The amount over the MSRP is not a rumor either.  I know a few who paid that and they are not from Hollywood []...but those were about two years ago.  Then, Toyota Prius sells more than a Camry does.  I know because I inquired.  Production might have caught up with the demand now though....in which case they should go lower.

Note that the calculation was done with comparable sized vehicle (Toyota Tercel at that time I believe which is even smaller than the Corolla).  They got the price difference then used that to calculate the savings per month.

Don't get me wrong, I am an advocate for more energy efficient vehicles.

I apologize for using an outdated study though [B)]


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## alamocdc (Aug 7, 2006)

> _Originally posted by johncrane_
> <br />just remembered go to GOGGLE and type in ACETONE. there is some very interesting stories  on increasing mpg buy adding very small amounts of Acetone.



John, I don't remember if they tested acetone, but Mythbusters did a show on fuel savings tips and devices and none of them proved effective.

Corporate greed is the key. I saw on the news last week where Exon reported a 10 billion dollar profit for the last QUARTER! If that's not greed, I've never seen it. And it smacks of price gouging too. So much for the Whitehouse threat of prosecuting those folks!

I've seen quite a few Chevy commercials where they are selling these ethanol (not gasohol) converted vehicles. My question is where do you get the ethanol? I haven't seen any place selling it.


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## Dario (Aug 7, 2006)

That is it Billy.

They can easily retrofit existing stations but refuse...maybe there will be less profit in it?

Re: greed I agree 100%.  They reported that for the past 6 quarters gas companies showed a steady increase in income and the last is the all time high (if I am not mistaken and they want MORE.

Re: gov't persecution...don't hold your breath, they are VERY "chummy" with these folks if you know what I mean.  Hope I am not getting political.


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## rgundersen (Aug 7, 2006)

Trying to avoid the political piece but at the same point since when is its the gavernments area to prosecute a company for making money?

Exxon is not a monopoly so it cant control pricing anymore than Shell or others.

I agree with the basics that I hate the increase in fuel prices and they are going to have some major ipacts on the US economy. 

If the government would do more to promote alternatives in both fuel and energy in general rather than waiting for things to become critical, as they tend to do with most things it seems then they could have a useful impact, but as stated most politicians have nothing to gain and as such do very little about it.  The general politicians concerns for themselves far more than for what is "right" is always been an issue though, perhaps not as extreme as it is these days.


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## Bob A (Aug 7, 2006)

You can find stations that sell E85 in your area at this link.  http://www.e85refueling.com/

I have a flex fuel vehicle and live in the midwest where there is corn everywhere and there are only two stations within twenty five miles of me that sell E85.

From what little research I have done on E85 I have found that you get less mileage (aprox. 2MPG less)  and the price is getting near regular gas.  It may not be cost effective to use until their are more production facilities.


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## baldysm (Aug 7, 2006)

According to what I hear on NPR (yup, I admit I'm a nerd), there is considerable debate, even among the experts, about ethanol and how much it really saves on oil consumption. Apparently it takes considerable energy to convert corn into ethanol, more so than oil into gas. 

I may be missing something, as it gets load when I'm roughing out some pen blanks and I often miss parts of the conversation.


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## DWK5150 (Aug 7, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Bob A_
> <br />You can find stations that sell E85 in your area at this link.  http://www.e85refueling.com/
> 
> I have a flex fuel vehicle and live in the midwest where there is corn everywhere and there are only two stations within twenty five miles of me that sell E85.
> ...



E85 is a good fuel you will loose gas mileage but if you have a performance vehicle it is better for you cause E85 has a octane raiting of 100+.  The price is a little cheaper but you have to out weigh that with your lose in gas mileage but there are ways to counteract that and get your gas mileage back to where it was with E85.


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## RogerGarrett (Aug 7, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Dario_
> <br />Due to the premium price of hybrid cars right now...studies showed that the break even point for a vehicle used an average of 1,000 miles a month is 10 years!!!  [:0]
> 
> Ofcourse that point is bound to lessen due to the gasoline rate increases and the selling cost of hybrids bound to go down as more manufacturers and models are offered.



There are a few factors that led us to NOT purchase a hybird this past month (see my posting under Mercedes!!!).  

Despite the tax break and the good fuel efficiency, neither Toyota or Honda could tell us the life expectancy of the batteries that run the electric motor in the hybirds.  Their best estimate was 80,000-90,000 miles.  Since it is a wear and tear item, it can't be covered by extended warranty.  Replacement batteries are estimated to be, at this time, $8,500-10,000.  

In order for the Hybrid to be cost effective, you must be traveling approximately 4000 miles per month on the average and have paid no more than the MSRP for the car.  If those two factors are met, you should break even in the difference of the cost of a non-hybrid vs. a hybrid within about three years.

I have a gut feeling that alternatives are on the horizon - that the hybrids are a stepping stone to a new vehicle that will not rely on gasoline at all - but that's just a hope.

Best,
Roger Garrett


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## gerryr (Aug 7, 2006)

My primary vehicle is a Ford F350 Diesel that get about 15 mpg if I'm not towing the horse trailer with 2-3 horses in it, then it gets about 11.  Diesel was $3.20 a gallon yesterday and will probably be higher later today.  At lunch I bought a 1995 Honda Civic DX hatchback 5 speed for $3500, one of my all time favorite cars.  The guy is repairing some body damage and I'll pick it up when I come back from Bonaire.  I figure I should get about 35mpg with that little baby.  I figure the car will pay for itself in about 1.5-2 years since I drive about 20,000 miles year.  Plus it produces a lot less pollution than the diesel, which is as important to me as fuel efficiency.  Only when, and if, the snow gets really deep here will I need to use the truck for everyday driving.  Other than that it will be relegated to being just a horse hauler.


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## alamocdc (Aug 7, 2006)

Does anyone remember the days when diesel was half the cost (or less) than gas? I do, and I even know why (growing up in the west Texas oil fields has its advantages[]). Diesel is a by-product of refining gas from crude and as such was basically free to the oil companies or refineries. Then they discovered it would burn and began producing different grades (kerosene, etc.). With that, some enterprising soul developed an engine that would run on it and the heavy equipment industry (and maritime) jumped all over it. The oil companies loved it because they now had an avenue to get rid of this previously all but useless product and even make a buck or two. Then came the auto makers and their diesel converted V-8s. Yes, they were POS's (save the German and Japanese manufacturers who had already been using small diesel engines that were actually designed as diesel engines), but it didn't take long for big oil to see where this was headed and the price of diesel began to sky rocket. Supply and demand my happy @$$! By the time the auto makers abandoned the idea of using diesels in family vehicles and only use engineered diesel engines in their trucks it was already too late for we the consumer. I used to think only lawyers (sorry, Jim[}]) and insurance execs were doomed to hell because of their vocation. I've now added doctors and oil company execs because none of them (yes, I know there are exceptions in doctors... even a few lawyers) give a damn about anything but making the almighty dollar.

You know, my ancestors once threw a bunch of tea in a harbor because of times quite similar to these (Son of the American Revolution, thank you very much!). And it's only going to get worse until we the people stand up and shout, "We're mad as hell and we ain't gonna take it any more!"

Sorry, you guys got me on a roll![]


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## johncrane (Aug 7, 2006)

Come to the lucky Country yer right!! hi taxes hi fuel prices hi Int rates and then thers p/m John howardS new work place IR LAWS which is killing the working class people! what the hell is going on here! is U.S.A like this


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## PenWorks (Aug 8, 2006)

I am ahead of the curve, got rid of my Land Cruiser and Envoy in the last year or two.
My Scion gets 35+ miles and the Element about 25 , both cars have lots of room for people and cargo. Coming from Detroit, it really hurt to buy my first Jap car, but they beat us at our own game and really dought I would ever buy an American car again. But I think they are all made here now anyway. [] My son is the only one left in the family with  a GMC 3/4T V8, I hear him crying all the time.


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## SteveRoberts (Aug 8, 2006)

<b><b>I use my 2004 XLE 4cyl. camry to take two large people, 200 lbs of weights, 5 full size tables 50 lbs. of pens and 50 lbs. of drapes and displays and a 10x10 ez-up to shows. It routinely gets 30+ mpg over mountains at 75-80 mph.

We bought the wife a new xb scion, too new to know mpg cuz we are on the first tank!</b></b>


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## Firefyter-emt (Aug 8, 2006)

I beat it another way, the best way, About 2 years ago I changed jobs and got a company car. Same line of work, but I was using my old CJ before, sure I loose some serious fun factor by going from my Jeep (topless & doorless from April to October) [] to a Malibu [xx(].. But it did come with this really nice fleet gas card! and "fix all card" I only do about 500 a week now, but I was up around 1000 with the Jeep. That is a benifit worth about $3714.00 at $3.00 a gallon! []

At todays prices gas for the CJ would be about $8666.00 plus any repairs I had to do to keep her running []


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## Firefyter-emt (Aug 8, 2006)

You hit the nail right on the head Roger! WE are going to have a big issue with the disposal of these battries when they wear out. I am also curious if they will be like a rechargeable flashlight say at 75k where the charged life is a lot less than new.

BUT, on the good note.. you can always chop it all up and have a shop weld in a Corola drivetrain ![]




> _Originally posted by RogerGarrett_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...


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## PenWorks (Aug 9, 2006)

> _Originally posted by alamocdc_
> <br /> You know, my ancestors once threw a bunch of tea in a harbor because of times quite similar to these (Son of the American Revolution, thank you very much!). And it's only going to get worse until we the people stand up and shout, "We're mad as hell and we ain't gonna take it any more!"
> 
> Sorry, you guys got me on a roll![]



Billy, just when do you think the breaking point is? $4.00, $5.00 ?
I say, don't re elect one person running for office this November [:0] Then, someone may just get the message, we are tired of their political BS [!]


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## DWK5150 (Aug 9, 2006)

What really sucks is I HAVE to run premium in my car and 3.50 a gallon now that sucks!!!


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## alamocdc (Aug 9, 2006)

I'm with you, Anthony. The sad part is, they will still get the inflated retirement salaries. [:0][B)]


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## PenWorks (Aug 9, 2006)

> _Originally posted by alamocdc_
> <br />I'm with you, Anthony. The sad part is, they will still get the inflated retirement salaries. [:0][B)]



Wouldn't that be special, to elect 100 NEW Senetors and 435 NEW Congressmen, then they can appeal the retirement package for all the ones that left [] Give them what they deserve, nothing, no health insurance like half the folks in this country, and cut their pensions 80% 

When do you think the last time Ol Georgy filled up his tank or any of our Senetors  [?] Hell, even if they did, they probablly had a credit card that was paid by the TAX PAYERS [xx(]


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## GBusardo (Aug 9, 2006)

Is this the new "venting forum" I heard might be in the works??  [}]   []
May I chime in?  First, am I alone when I read about the pipeline and thought, CONSPIRACY????  <b></b>NOW <b></b> BP decides there is a corrosion problem?????  So because BP didn't do any maintenance work for years,  WE got to pay the price? What a crock of S***
I am fully convinced our governments are in cahoots with the oil companies.  How else can you explain Senators and Congressmen knocking down plans for windmills?  We have a few in Atlantic City and to be honest, itâ€™s a breath of fresh air, so to speak  []
I heard yesterday on the radio, these windmills have generated 350 million dollars worth of energy. (No I do not know how long they have been there, but not for very long) But one Senator of note says "not off my coast."  How bout one of them doing something good for the country instead of saving his or her view. 
Our government has no trouble mandating car have better pollution controls, why can't they say,  if you want to sell cars in this country, 50% have to be hybrids by say 2010. Also, the government can mandate each state to generate so much "green energy" for tax credits or whatever lese they seem to be always holding over our heads.  Why won't this be done? 
Sorry for such a long post, but this is one area that really gets my dander up
Thanks
Gary


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## GBusardo (Aug 9, 2006)

PS I didn't know about the cost of a battery, so I did some reasearch.  check this out if you are interested.  The cost is conciderably less than $8000

http://hybridcars.about.com/od/hybridcarfaq/f/batterycost.htm


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## esheffield (Aug 9, 2006)

One (sorta) problem with the hybrids is that they only charge the batteries from the engine. If you dig around on the net there are some folks modifying their hybrids so they can be charged by plugging in. Apparently greatly increases the mileage, especially if you mainly drive short distances.

As for windmills, I'm all for them. Personally I like the way they look. But I know around here (SW VA) it's not the gov blocking them - it's the residents. There has been a push to put some in around hear and in nearby WV, but the people living there say they'll ruin the view and are dangerous for birds.


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## Dario (Aug 9, 2006)

> _Originally posted by esheffield_
> <br />One (sorta) problem with the hybrids is that they only charge the batteries from the engine. If you dig around on the net there are some folks <b>modifying their hybrids so they can be charged by plugging in. Apparently greatly increases the mileage, especially if you mainly drive short distances.</b>
> 
> As for windmills, I'm all for them. Personally I like the way they look. But I know around here (SW VA) it's not the gov blocking them - it's the residents. There has been a push to put some in around hear and in nearby WV, but the people living there say they'll ruin the view and are <b>dangerous for birds</b>.



The mod to allow AC charging will surely make them a lot more attractive to some.  Not sure if it will save much with the power rates but sure is nice to have an option.

I can believe the residents voting windmills out...especially the rich ones but I cannot believe they will factor the birds getting hurt.  Sure, some may but the birds are much more intelligent than what these people make them appear.  They will adapt fast and before you know it...use those windmills to their advantage.


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## GBusardo (Aug 9, 2006)

I would almost bet that some Peregrine falcon has nested atop one of those windmills  hahaha I love the way they look too. 
If anyone is  really serious about helping fix our fuel/enviromental problems, write your representitive and ask why more isn't being done. I wrote our governor and got a reply that the possibilities of windmills in the ocean are being studied, but their is opposition from the towns that are afraid that they will be an eye sore and will hurt tourism. I know I am the supreme skeptic, but somehow, somewhere, there is a hidden agenda.

Here is a link i just found,  decide for yourself

 http://www.acua.com/about/pressrelease1.cfm?id=103


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## woodbutcher (Aug 10, 2006)

The wind mills are actually a danger to bats. Tree huggers want wind mills and animal lovers don't. Just home from vacation that involved 3000 mi of drivimg in a Lincoln Town Car. The trip average was 24.5 mpg. Some of that was city [south Philly] and time in the mountians on old roads. [twisty windy hard climbs and decents] Interstate driving was at 70-80 mph. Vehicle maintenance and driving style really help. My car has 128,000 miles on the odometer. I use synthetic lubricants bumper to bumper. The little things really add up when talking fuel mileage. I don't see an electric motor in my immediate future. I have considered a golf cart for short trips in my local area.[No I'm not a golfer] Part of the problem with electric plug in vehicles in they have a tendency to burst into flames while rechargimg. Destroying the cart and the structure they are contained in. I see cars and trucks on the road constantly with low tire pressures. If every car in the country had properly inflated tires and a tune up I feel the fuel savings would be in the 10-20% area. This is just my opinion and is in no way scientific. Check your tires today and if low top them off. It really does help.
Jim[]


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## rgundersen (Aug 10, 2006)

The people complaining about windmills being unsightly or screwing up the view have abviously never been to countries that use them extensively.

Having been to a few I know I personally find them to be somewhat fascinating regardless of the age they happen to be.  

When in Copenhagen last year the hotel I was at was right next to the airport, immediately off the coast at the airport is a line of windmills.  It seems everytime I would look out the window of my room eventually I would be drawn to the windmills and the variability of each blade turn and it being out of synch with its neighbors...but hey maybe its just the latent autistic in me...

Regardless the view is subject to change wherever you live.  People that have refineries near them dont appreciate the view the smell or the danger but they did not have a choice when they were built 30 years ago, or whenever they were.  If the people who dont want their view to be changed are willing to revert to colonial times then they can keep their view otherwise adapt and thrive.


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## Monty (Aug 10, 2006)

If gas prices keep going up, we may see this soon.


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## Dario (Aug 10, 2006)

Monty,

Ain't that the truth [B)]

Anyway, after reading the lengthy thread about acetone on woodworking.com I went  ahead and braved to do a test.  I'll probably do this the next few tank fullls which shouldn't take long  and report my findings.

It will be easy since I have been monitoring my mileage for the past 5 years LOL and I average 3,000 miles a month [V] (about 6 tanks).

For those who want to read about the acetone here are a few links:
http://pesn.com/2005/03/17/6900069_Acetone/
http://www.lubedev.com/smartgas/additive.htm

I am not endorsing it but as I said...will do the test in case it really works.  I have gallons of acetone on stock anyway [][].

The biggest concern is will acetone damage any car components and after weighing/considering all arguments I believe (and I may be mistaken) that it shouldn't especially at that dilluted amount (from 1-3 oz acetone per 10 gallons of gas).


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## clewless (Aug 10, 2006)

And one of the biggest guns blocking windmills in Sen. Kennedy who doesn't want is pristine ocean view diturbed....

WE NEED ALTERNATIVE FUELS...NOW and should start pressuring the pols...


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## DWK5150 (Aug 10, 2006)

Dario, 
One thing I see with that artical about acetone they dont really talk to much about using it in a fuel injected car.  Deisels are injected yes but they dont run in tank electric fuel pumps in them.  The reason why most cars still arent E85 approved is that the alcohol eats the coating off the windings on the pump and fuel injectors.

The better for most vehicles just run top tier fuel.   http://www.toptiergas.com/index.html


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## guts (Aug 10, 2006)

Dario,i'm not an expert at anything,but i don't think i would put anything in my truck that the manufacturer did'nt recomend,and if you think it's hard now just wait a few weeks,now they have an excuse to get the price of fuel up where they want it,who's fault is it OURS for electing the wrong people,nuff said.


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## GBusardo (Aug 10, 2006)

> _Originally posted by clewless_
> <br />And one of the biggest guns blocking windmills in Sen. Kennedy who doesn't want is pristine ocean view diturbed....



The Senator of note I mentioned [}][}][}]

Gas Pices are down signifigantly today!!!  I think the pols heard of a  potential hoard of pen turners that were going to storm their respective state capitols waving toy windmills  [)][)] 

Gary


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## ilikewood (Aug 11, 2006)

Somebody mentioned that ethanol is maybe not cost effective.  That is actually true, BUT only for corn production.  Bio-ethanol is where we need to be spending our research time. (that is, cellulostic waste being converted into sugars which are then fermented).  As many of you know, I am a research chemist and I get the pleasure of being involved in this.

Corn is limited by how much can be grown (by land area, water, etc).  Waste cellulostic items (straw, wood, corn stover, etc, etc, etc) are in unlimited forms and it takes no money or energy to produce these (they already exist in huge quantities).

The US government is trying to research this using an enzyme to break the cellulose down to basic sugars.  Another possibility is using a strong acid to hydrolyze the cellulose.  The Japanese have looked into this very deeply.  I attached a presentation the Japanese company NEDO with JGC did.  It is being pursued by a company in the US called Bluefire Ethanol right now.  BTW, the last page in the presentation shows a picture of some of the people involved in the project at a facility in Japan.  It labels them as their "trained and professional staff", but this is not true.  They added a couple other guys to the picture that don't work for them.
http://www.bluefireethanol.com/images/IZUMI_Status_2004_for_BlueFire_051606.pdf
I am the one on the right in the back row.[]


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## Rifleman1776 (Aug 11, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Dario_
> <br />I know about the tax credit $2,000.00 I believe? The amount over the MSRP is not a rumor either.  I know a few who paid that and they are not from Hollywood []...but those were about two years ago.  Then, Toyota Prius sells more than a Camry does.  I know because I inquired.  Production might have caught up with the demand now though....in which case they should go lower.
> 
> Note that the calculation was done with comparable sized vehicle (Toyota Tercel at that time I believe which is even smaller than the Corolla).  They got the price difference then used that to calculate the savings per month.
> ...



My son paid $26,000.00 for his Prius. His was a loaded model, all the extras. This really isn't any different than a well equiped model of almost any other mid-size car on the market. I don't know what he paid for the Highlander but he did buy it off the lot. No waiting on a list and no having to bribe anyone. Mentioned in another post is the used battery issue. I'm sure the trade-in value will be pretty low. Wouldn't make much sense to buy a $10,000.00 used Prius then spend another $10,000.00 for batteries.


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## DWK5150 (Aug 11, 2006)

Heck just get a diesil and start running biodiesil in it.  friend of mine tried it out in his and runbs pretty good I was impressed.


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## johncrane (Aug 13, 2006)

These goverment mongrels are over paid and full of s---  why wood they care about the cost of living.[!][!]


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## Rudy Vey (Aug 14, 2006)

The cost of gas actually has influenced our decision where to live when we move back east quite a bit. First we thought that we end up in eastern PA (Easton area) and I would drive daily, as many of my colleagues now do, into central NJ. But at $3 per gallon, and this is not going down again (in Germany my brothers already paying $6.75 per gal!!!), we thought we maybe look to find a house closer to work. We found a house approx. 9 miles away from my workplace instead of doing 55-60 twice daily. Doing the math at 25 mpg, the savings for me alone are over $200 a month!! Not counting the reduced wear and tear on the car, nerves and time saved not being behind the wheel, but in my shop turning pens!!


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## whatwoodido (Aug 14, 2006)

The other day I ran into a Starbuck's for a very rare purchase of a Java Chip Frapacino ($4 and yes I think that is insane but it really tastes good, and sometimes you need a caffiene hit) and I got the biggest kick out of hearing two Starbuck's regulars (the staff welcomed them by name) complaining that gas was so expensive while they ordered their "regulars" from the clerk for more than $4 each, and after she paid said see you tomorrow.  

I dislike paying a lot for gas as much as everyone else, but you get to hear the complaints in most interesting places.  Let's all just be glad that our cars don't run off Starbucks coffee.  

Drew


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## Rifleman1776 (Aug 14, 2006)

> _Originally posted by GBusardo_
> <br />PS I didn't know about the cost of a battery, so I did some reasearch.  check this out if you are interested.  The cost is conciderably less than $8000
> 
> http://hybridcars.about.com/od/hybridcarfaq/f/batterycost.htm



My son, the Prius owner, had been out of town. Today I posed the $8000.00 battery issue to him. Below is his response:

&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;There have only ever been a handful of batteries replaced in both the first and second generation Prius.  The battery is designed to last the life of the vehicle.  There are multiple Prius running, on the original battery, at 250k miles.  There are literally fleets of Prius running in Canada with no battery issues at all.

There are personal friends of mine at well over 100k miles with no sign of deterioration of the battery.

The handful of batteries requiring replacement were done either under warranty (which goes to 100k miles in the US, and 150k miles in states with California Emissions requirements), or for less than $3000 (full cost of a brand new battery), though most expect they would only need to pay around $500-1000 for a refurb or salvage battery.  Considering the minimal engine wear, fewer moving parts, lack of a traditional transmission (also a frequent failure part requiring expensive replacement on traditional cars) the Prius is quite economical.

And, no, it can't run on the ICE alone...it can, briefly, run on the battery/motor alone, but the ICE can't start without the traction battery.

Please point those with further questions that want accurate informed answers to http://www.priuschat.com where we can give them good accurate information.  They might also be interested in looking at the resale values of the Prius on a site like Edmunds.com...they'll find that they're holding their value quite well. &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;


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