# Gearing up----Econo-watch Blanks



## Gary Max

Here's where I have been spending my evenings----I have a batch of Econo-Watch blanks that I am casting later today---these are already sold. 
Sure made it nice to have one place set aside for this project. Really need to get one of those hard mats for the floor---those little parts are hard to find in the carpet.


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## glycerine

Give us some close up pics!!!!


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## Mark

For a small area, you could probably use one of those trunk liners they mold for SUV's. They are fairly solid and the edges curl up. That would keep the part's local to the area, should they come off the table.


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## rjwolfe3

I can't wait to try some of those. Your area looks good!


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## glycerine

Mark said:


> For a small area, you could probably use one of those trunk liners they mold for SUV's. They are fairly solid and the edges curl up. That would keep the part's local to the area, should they come off the table.


 
You could also buy one of those "magnets on the end of a stick" thing and "sweep" them up...


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## Willee

Watch part pens are one of the coolest looking pens being made ... IMHO.

I would like to see one where the gears mesh together to give the illusion of a working mechanism instead of something that has exploded.

Hummmm ... perhaps I just found a new project ... now if I could just find an old watch.


EDIT ... Due to the path this thread has taken I feel I need to add this legal statment.
Meshing the gears together in a watch pen or a pool cue is my original idea so none of you can do that from now on.


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## glycerine

Willee said:


> Watch part pens are one of the coolest looking pens being made ... IMHO.
> 
> I would like to see one where the gears mesh together to give the illusion of a working mechanism instead of something that has exploded.
> 
> Hummmm ... perhaps I just found a new project ... now if I could just find an old watch.


 
Let's see how many watches it takes to make a watch part pool cue!!!!


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## Tanner

Looks great!  Do you use thick CA to adhere the parts to the tubes?


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## Gary Max

Tanner said:


> Looks great! Do you use thick CA to adhere the parts to the tubes?


 

For this job I like Gorilla Super Glue----it's not cheap but I really like the way it works.


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## scotian12

Hi Gary....the Gorilla super glue ...is that a CA based glue or the expandable poly glue? If the poly type, the set up time is fairly slow, so that it would give you time for adjustments but as it expands it foams into a light colored film which would show, I think. Could you please clarify. Thanks   Darrell Eisner


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## Gary Max

It's CA---the label says ---Super glue-- Impact-Tough


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## Willee

glycerine said:


> Willee said:
> 
> 
> 
> Watch part pens are one of the coolest looking pens being made ... IMHO.
> 
> I would like to see one where the gears mesh together to give the illusion of a working mechanism instead of something that has exploded.
> 
> Hummmm ... perhaps I just found a new project ... now if I could just find an old watch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let's see how many watches it takes to make a watch part pool cue!!!!
Click to expand...


Many pool cue ideas were worked out on a pen before becoming a cue design.
I think your idea of a pool cue made with watch parts inlayed is an excellent idea.
Too bad pool cues can not be made of casting resin like the pens.


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## snyiper

Why cant they have casting resin in them?


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## bitshird

Is that the kind of glue Barry Gross recommends??or is that copyright protected as well as his design??


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## Gary Max

bitshird said:


> Is that the kind of glue Barry Gross recommends??or is that copyright protected as well as his design??


 

Your such a funny person Ken.


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## bitshird

Gary Max said:


> bitshird said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is that the kind of glue Barry Gross recommends??or is that copyright protected as well as his design??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your such a funny person Ken.
Click to expand...


Thanks Gary but you saw how long the beautiful picture of a watch part pen stayed up? I honestly don't see how he can get so self righteous, (but then again look who I'm answering). However, Mr Gross is very touchy about that type of pen, as has been shown on this forum before. 
But Lawyers have to earn a living to!! I think it would be god to see this put to a test and ended one way or the other, lucky for me, I don't have a horse in this race though so I got nothing to loose.


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## MesquiteMan

bitshird said:


> I honestly don't see how he can get so self righteous, (but then again look who I'm answering). However, Mr Gross is very touchy about that type of pen, as has been shown on this forum before.



Ken, with all due respect, why is trying to protect something that you worked hard developing being self righteous?  I do not understand the thought on this site that everything should be copied and that the person that tries to protect their ideas are the bad guys.


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## KenV

Thanks Curtis --   I was thinking about suggesting an "Arggg Shivver Me Timbers" Forum for the site.


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## Gary Max

At this point I stop and quit typing before we start a war over Steampunk Art which has been around for a very VERY long time.


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## Willee

MesquiteMan said:


> bitshird said:
> 
> 
> 
> I honestly don't see how he can get so self righteous, (but then again look who I'm answering). However, Mr Gross is very touchy about that type of pen, as has been shown on this forum before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ken, with all due respect, why is trying to protect something that you worked hard developing being self righteous?  I do not understand the thought on this site that everything should be copied and that the person that tries to protect their ideas are the bad guys.
Click to expand...


Curtis, it is the idea that someone thinks he owns something just because he was the first to do something different.
Who was the first to use casting resin to make a pen?
How do you think he should feel about everyone else copying that process?
Didn't the first person that put watch parts in casting resin become guilty of copying that same process himself?
Placing an object in casting resin then turning it into a pen is one thing just about anyone can do. 
It has become public property and anyone is entitled to use that process.
Thinking you own some sort of special entitlement because you were the first to put that specific object in casting resin is what is so funny!
We have laws in this country to protect intellectual property and they are very specific about what can be protected and what can not.
Just saying something dont make it so and sometimes peoples unfounded and incorrect statements and legal threats are where the humor lies.

As an afterthought ... many of what some people think are original ideas have been done before by others.
Whoever turned the first Cocobolo wood pen had no right to say no one else could use that wood because it was his original idea.


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## bitshird

MesquiteMan said:


> bitshird said:
> 
> 
> 
> I honestly don't see how he can get so self righteous, (but then again look who I'm answering). However, Mr Gross is very touchy about that type of pen, as has been shown on this forum before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ken, with all due respect, why is trying to protect something that you worked hard developing being self righteous?  I do not understand the thought on this site that everything should be copied and that the person that tries to protect their ideas are the bad guys.
Click to expand...


Curtis he published the instructions in a book telling how to do it, as long as the design doesn't look exactly like his I don't see why he's being so hard on people for emulating a design. How many people have you threatened for trying to copy your cactus skeleton blanks, that's all I'm saying, IF the Design is Copyright protected then it is, but the design was out and for sale before Mr Gross did it only thing was it sells for 19,000.00 dollars Barry writes books on how to make pens and when some one makes one he blasts them, Am I missing something here or what?? shouldn't Caran De Arch be the ones hopping up and down, it was apparently their idea, Oh but Barry Gross used a cheaper pen kit.
 There is stuff all over Youtube about how to make them, at what point does this become public domain, I think in that sense none of us should be allowed to make any pens because we are copying someones work some where. or do we get by because we are using different wood, different finishes, different plating's, Well the parts in all these watch part pens are not the same, I do think I'll defriend Barry on Facebook, like it will really matter. And the self righteous comment wasn't just directed at Barry Gross, but if you are going to sell books explaining how to make a pen or any other craft item then you shouldn't get your knickers in a wad when some one does what you have taught them to do or am I just getting senile??


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## Gary Max

Using the words Knickers and senile is the same line of type------Hummm
Anywho----thanks for the post Ken------


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## jttheclockman

I don't want anyone cpying the use of copper sleeving in a cast resin pen. I have never seen this so I claim as my idea.  









Just Kidding. Copy away. But it just shows the sillyness of this whole thing. He is and was not the first with the idea. If I had to copyright every item I made  from my ideas I would go broke.


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## PenPal

Morning everybody.

A comment if I may a long time probably in the 60,s as a Photographer I was totally impressed by a group of Photo finishing technicians in Australia made a tie pin from an encapsulated Dung Beetle, Beetles were imported from Africa and are bred in their millions to counteract domestic flies breeding in the excessive manure distributed the length and breadth of this country.

The inscription applied to Photographers who used their services and it is.

DONT PUSH THAT CRAP ONTO ME. This was an effort to improve the input material something worth striving for as most people copy professional photographs of weddings, vdeos etc if we can even though these pic are copyright to the photographer.

Peter.


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## jttheclockman

pwhay said:


> Morning everybody.
> 
> 
> 
> Peter.


 

Did he say Good Morning??? Say how is tomorrow looking mate????


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## Willee

jttheclockman said:


> I don't want anyone cpying the use of copper sleeving in a cast resin pen. I have never seen this so I claim as my idea.
> 
> 
> Just Kidding. Copy away. But it just shows the sillyness of this whole thing. He is and was not the first with the idea. If I had to copyright every item I made  from my ideas I would go broke.



John, your copper braid pens are simply beautiful.

Now if you would sprinkle a few watch gears and some circuit board components around in there ... it would be really something.

I am so happy to see you and a few other people here actually "get" the concept.


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## Santacraig

I also use the Gorilla super glue,  It is indeed CA and sells at walmart for less than $4.00 here in California for a bottle of 15G or just over 1/2 ounce


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## Gary Max

Nope John----ain't going to work---I am wanting to get my work bench cleared off not add anything new. Plus I am sold out of Salad Bowls and really need to get some turned.  I started working on Econo-Watch pens on our website at 2am this morning.


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## jtdesigns

Yes, while I was bummed my "interpretation of a Barry Gross original" pen was taken down I want it clearly stated and known that our admin has asked me not to write a tutorial or post any more "watch part" pens and I will honor his request.  I do agree that a person who writes a book and gladly accepts the proceeds should not get real upset when somebody makes an item that resembles something in the gallery of said book.  By the way, I have been following the posts regarding this and embedding objects in resin along with coming up with some of my own ideas or improvements, it is quite evident, putting aside some peoples arrogance, that this concept and many others will continue to evolve with or without their input.  

Thank to all for your comments on the pen that was taken down, I will post my latest creation where I used micro gears and cogs from RC servos, fishings reels, etc (not watch parts) for a commissioned piece for a race car driver titled: "Gear Head".  I don't think that is copyrighted but who knows.


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## jtdesigns

jttheclockman said:


> I don't want anyone cpying the use of copper sleeving in a cast resin pen. I have never seen this so I claim as my idea.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just Kidding. Copy away. But it just shows the sillyness of this whole thing. He is and was not the first with the idea. If I had to copyright every item I made  from my ideas I would go broke.



Btw, I think it would be a cool version to do another "gear head" with the stainless steel braid as the backdrop for the gears if you don't mind.  Really cool pens JT!!!


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## Gary Max

Well Jeff it's still your fault that I get up at 2:30 in the a.m. and take watches apart.
Thanks for all the help you have given me. Right now I am building 6 Econo-Watch blanks at one time and hope to start selling them on my web site by the first of the month.


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## S.A.Mappin

Willee said:


> Watch part pens are one of the coolest looking pens being made ... IMHO.
> 
> I would like to see one where the gears mesh together to give the illusion of a working mechanism instead of something that has exploded.
> 
> Hummmm ... perhaps I just found a new project ... now if I could just find an old watch.
> 
> 
> EDIT ... Due to the path this thread has taken I feel I need to add this legal statment.
> Meshing the gears together in a watch pen or a pool cue is my original idea so none of you can do that from now on.


 Funny you should post that, I had been thinking the same thing, and wondered why no one had done it yet!!!


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## Gary Max

Your to late------remember not every pen made gets posted here.


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## MesquiteMan

jtdesigns said:
			
		

> Yes, while I was bummed my "interpretation of a Barry Gross original" pen was taken down I want it clearly stated and known that our admin has asked me not to write a tutorial or post any more "watch part" pens and I will honor his request.



Now, in fairness to our Admin, explain why this request was made.


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## Gary Max

Personally-----I was told to post---sell or talk about making any pen I wanted to.
If I had enough words I would write the tutorial myself.
Ther's a bottom line that folks don't think about here------it's already out there.
Look how many lurkers are reading these post, How many memebers are killing poor little watchs. The word is out and in this country you can't stop people from making a buck.

Oh right now-------12 members --56 guest are here at IAP------plus the members that are hiding


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## pensmyth

Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else.


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## rjwolfe3

MesquiteMan said:


> jtdesigns said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, while I was bummed my "interpretation of a Barry Gross original" pen was taken down I want it clearly stated and known that our admin has asked me not to write a tutorial or post any more "watch part" pens and I will honor his request.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now, in fairness to our Admin, explain why this request was made.
Click to expand...


I am curious to hear this too.


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## bitshird

I believe the request was made since Barry Gross Does in fact have a legitimate Copyright to the CONCEPT. not just the end result, I recently went through a legal discussion regarding the conceptual parts of Patent and Copyright and patent laws with a " much larger competitor" fortunately my understanding of the Conceptual end of a Patent was better than his so I'm still in business, BUT had he been right, I would have been in Deep **it, SO I'd say go for it Gary you are an American Citizen and are entitled to the full protection of the court system, (and you're a pretty good sized guy too")
after all what have you got to loose:biggrin::biggrin:


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## bitshird

And I'm not certain it would apply, but Salvador Dali did this painting in 1931 called La persistencia de la memoria  it involves deformed watch and clock parts


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## Gary Max

bitshird said:


> SO I'd say go for it Gary you are an American Citizen and are entitled to the full protection of the court system, (and you're a pretty good sized guy too")
> after all what have you got to loose:biggrin::biggrin:


 

Ken-----Maybe he wants half the deer in the frezzer?????????

Folks you have to remeber--Jeff Brown is just trying to protect the site.
How can anyone fault him for that.


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## jtdesigns

Please make no mistake I completely understand why the photo was taken down and I have nothing but great respect for our administrators as they were in fact trying to protect this site from legal action (something that was my doing).


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## AlanZ

Bitshird,

It is my understanding that one cannot copyright a concept or an idea... that's what patents are for.


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## bruce119

How fun I just discovered this thread. Been gone over the weekend at a show. Now as most of you know I play with resin. I am self taught trial and error in the beginning then the Internet. Now in my early days of casting I was experimenting with all kinds of stuff my mind works a little different then most. I thought I had all kinds of original ideas that no one could have possibly had. Such as Loofah, weeds, feathers, and much more. Only to discover this site as I advanced to find out that this has all been done before in one one way or another. I also had started collecting watches and clocks for a project that I never finished long before I ever saw a photo.

Now on another note ideas were do they come from. Something you see what ever it may be something on the side of the road a picture of an ear ring done in steampunk (watch parts) art. What ever it may be it is called INSPIRATION. Now a days it is almost impossible to have a very first original and if you think you do where did the INSPIRATION come from most likely something you saw.

Anyway this all fun and if you don't want your work copied don't show, tell or sell it. Most of us respect each other and there's enough space and ideas to go around. And besides things like the watch parts are not easy, not every one can do it. Most have trouble just with casting let alone all the variables that come to play with something with multiple complications.

That's it have fun.


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## bitshird

AlanZ said:


> Bitshird,
> 
> It is my understanding that one cannot copyright a concept or an idea... that's what patents are for.



Exactly!!!!! but there are provisional patents that can do so. Not sure about the wording on the copyright laws, they are pretty vague, but I did have to argue a cease and desist order and was able to win. However I got a PM from Barry gross, and he seemed reasonably certain that he could enforce this issue, and I understand and honor Jeff Browns position as well. I'm certain with the right legal council, while he may not prevail, he could force a large cash outlay to defend his position. I was fortunate in that the Attorney I was against didn't have his facts straight and neither did hid his client who makes a similar too. but it took 5 -8 to 10 hour days back searching the concept and actual first patent to prove that technically we were both infringing slightly on a previously issued patent , and the owner of that patent isn't interested in perusing the matter further Now the tool we will be unveiling at the Turning Southern Style symposium  may get a bit sticky but fortunately I made a crude prototype for Gary a while back which is all based on the same principal and concept of having an interchangeable carbide insert on a square bar,, Oddly enough this was what my legal opponent tried to claim as his proprietary design "a square bar" this should give a reasonable insight to the intelligence of some Lawyers that try and practice out of their certified field. 
I' thinking GO Gary Go tic toc tic toc time is ticking away....


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## jttheclockman

I must say this is one concept I would love to see hit the big time players and see marketed. It really would be a hoot.


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## bruce119

jttheclockman said:


> I must say this is one concept I would love to see hit the big time players and see marketed. It really would be a hoot.


 
For it to be done rite with authentic parts is a TON of work and would cost BIG $$$.

If it was to be mass produced there's no way they could do it it with real parts. It would have to be reproduced parts like paper or plastic gears so they could be easily bent and wrapped.

To make one is a LOT of work and takes a LOT of time that is why you don't see them popping up all over the place. The originator shouldn't be too concerned there's only a handful that would be able to pull it off.

Did I say it is a LOT of work and takes a tremendous amount of TIME as I am sure JT... would attest too.


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## jttheclockman

bruce119 said:


> jttheclockman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I must say this is one concept I would love to see hit the big time players and see marketed. It really would be a hoot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For it to be done rite with authentic parts is a TON of work and would cost BIG $$$.
> 
> If it was to be mass produced there's no way they could do it it with real parts. It would have to be reproduced parts like paper or plastic gears so they could be easily bent and wrapped.
> 
> To make one is a LOT of work and takes a LOT of time that is why you don't see them popping up all over the place. The originator shouldn't be too concerned there's only a handful that would be able to pull it off.
> 
> Did I say it is a LOT of work and takes a tremendous amount of TIME as I am sure JT... would attest too.
Click to expand...

 
I am gathering parts as we speak and I will attempt my rendition soon hopefully. I have a couple ideas I would like to try.

As far as being copied by the big guys, I would not put it past them. If they were able to conquer the circuit board pen and you have to admit that is a nice blank, then this is not out of the possibilities.


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## Russianwolf

jttheclockman said:


> As far as being copied by the big guys, I would not put it past them. If they were able to conquer the circuit board pen and you have to admit that is a nice blank, then this is not out of the possibilities.



With paying people in Asia pennies on the dollar for labor, time isn't a problem for them at all. Remember they have entire towns whose entire economy is based on pulling circuit boards apart to salvage the precious metals and other usable components from them. If that's not time consuming I don't know what is.


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## bitshird

Russianwolf said:


> jttheclockman said:
> 
> 
> 
> As far as being copied by the big guys, I would not put it past them. If they were able to conquer the circuit board pen and you have to admit that is a nice blank, then this is not out of the possibilities.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With paying people in Asia pennies on the dollar for labor, time isn't a problem for them at all. Remember they have entire towns whose entire economy is based on pulling circuit boards apart to salvage the precious metals and other usable components from them. If that's not time consuming I don't know what is.
Click to expand...


Ever listen to the Monty Python song I like Chinese?? it's on Youtube, but out of respect I won't post a link here


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## jttheclockman

Russianwolf said:


> jttheclockman said:
> 
> 
> 
> As far as being copied by the big guys, I would not put it past them. If they were able to conquer the circuit board pen and you have to admit that is a nice blank, then this is not out of the possibilities.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With paying people in Asia pennies on the dollar for labor, time isn't a problem for them at all. Remember they have entire towns whose entire economy is based on pulling circuit boards apart to salvage the precious metals and other usable components from them. If that's not time consuming I don't know what is.
Click to expand...

 



:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

It will happen if there is a demand for these you can bet on it.


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## Tim

JT, those copper sleeving pens are gorgeous!


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## jttheclockman

Tim said:


> JT, those copper sleeving pens are gorgeous!


 


Thanks for the (ego boost)


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## its_virgil

*The Advetures of Chuckleberry Flinn*

I read a novel the other day. After reading it I thought, "I can do that." So here is a summary of the planned work.
_*The Adventures of Chuckleberry Flinn*_* was a comical novel about a boy and a run away slave who travel down the Mississippi and encounter many problems they need to overcome. The first problem is getting away from Chuck's drunk bum of a dad who spends all his money on alcohol. You see Chuck has quite a bit of money, well 6000 dollars to be exact. Chuck gives this money to a man named judge Cratcher ( he is the judge of the town ). After Chuck's dad finds out about this he goes nuts and tries to get it from the judge. However unsuccessful, Chuck's father, pap, kidnaps Chuck from his temporary guardian, and hides out in a cabin, with Chuck, across the river from the own. Chuck's pap beats him so Chuck fakes his own death to get away from pap. * 
*After successfully running away, he goes to Jackson island where he meets up with Tim. During there short stay on the island there is a storm which causes the Mississippi to flood. When the storm passes, Chuck and Tim find a house and a raft floating down the river. They take what the can from the house and the raft and go on a long adventure.*
*Well the town folk are not to happy about Tim running away so they go after him. But luckily Tim and Chuck get away on the raft they found. After there escape they start down the river with a plan to leave the raft at the mouth of the Ohio river and travel upstream to the free states. One night Chuck and Tim encounter some thick fog and miss the mouth of the Ohio river completely. The next night the raft is hit by a steamboat and Chuck and Tim separate.*
*Eventually Chuck ends up in the home of the Dangerfords where there is a Romeo and Juliet type of scene.The Dangerfords and the Leapherdsons are quarreling and a son of one family loves a daughter of the other, so when the 2 families find out there is a shootout and all the Grangerfords are killed, but eventually Tim shows up and they go down the river some more. A few days later they encounter some con men being chased by armed bandits, so Chuck and Tim rescue them and continue down the river with these 2 rapscallions. The 2 men pretend to be an English Duke and the long lost heir to the French throne. Well when traveling into down into one town they hear about the story of a man who has recently died and left everything to his 2 brothers, who should be arriving from England any day. So the Duke and the King enter the town claiming to be the 2 brothers. The guy's daughters who died welcomes them and they start selling everything they can. A few town people start to become skeptical so Chuck figures out a plant to get them caught, unfortunately the real brother shows up and the Duck and King get away with Chuck and Tim.*
*After a few more small scams the Duke and King sell Tim to a local farmer claiming him to have a big reward. Chuck finds out where Tim is being held and goes to free him. At the house where Tim is held a woman greets Chuck excitedly claiming Chuck to be his best friend Ron, who is coming to visit.. So Chuck travels up the road to find Ron before he can get to the house and he tells Ron his plan to break Tim free. But Ron has a different idea and Chuck hates this plan but does decide to go along with it. After a while of preparation Ron and Chuck break Tim free only to get chased down and have a bullet get lodged in Rons leg. So after Ron is nursed back to health and we find Tim back in chains, Ron explains that Tim was free all along, that his owner freed him upon her death. Glad to hear this Tim sets to go up river to free the rest of his family, but before he does that he tells Chuck not to worry about his father anymore because in thehouse that was floating down the river Tim found a dead man and it turned out to be Chuck's father, so being very relieved Chuck sets off for the west.*


What do you all think? Should I continue? I don't think Mark Twain's estates will mind. This is America, right?. Novels have been written before. They don't have a lock on that idea. I will change a few things, as you can see from the summary, so It will not be exactly like the copyrighted version. Now off to the word processor to start.
Do a good turn daily!
Don


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## Gary Max

I won't invest the farm in printing that.


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## BRobbins629

its_virgil said:


> What do you all think? Should I continue?
> Don


Don't quit your day job.  A story like this will never sell many copies.


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## Willee

its_virgil said:


> What do you all think? Should I continue? I don't think Mark Twain's estates will mind. This is America, right?. Novels have been written before. They don't have a lock on that idea. I will change a few things, as you can see from the summary, so It will not be exactly like the copyrighted version. Now off to the word processor to start.
> Do a good turn daily!
> Don




Virgil, I was just about to give you credit for being a bit smarter than that.

Dont quit your day job and forget about law school.


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## its_virgil

I'm not quitting my day job. I need no credit on anything from anyone. I don't care if it sells or not.  I asked no one to sell any farms to help finance this project. I've made no comments on what others in this thread think. I have not criticized any other opinions on the topic of this thread. It is a sad day when someone disagrees (without being disagreeable) with others on this forum and they soon become the target of negative comments.  Sad days here are becoming too frequent. I will not debate the controversy. I think my only post on the topic is quite plain....too bad that so many just don't get it.
Do a good turn daily!
Don


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## johnnycnc

its_virgil said:


> >el snippo>
> I think my only post on the topic is quite plain....too bad that so many just don't get it.
> Do a good turn daily!
> Don



I get it, Don.
And it's a pretty darn funny story too!
I got lost after mention of 6000 dollars, but I see the parody and ironical
twist underlying.
Write on!!

Johnny
♣


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## bitshird

Heck Don, compared to today's literature your novel should be ranked with The Iliad and the Odyssey, but I too get your point, and agree! I wish Mr Tate would explain his position a bit better, I've heard one side from a reliable source that was turning pens with you at SWAT.


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## Russianwolf

its_virgil said:


> What do you all think?


What do I think? You need a better spell checker. :tongue:


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## BigguyZ

Isn't Mark Twain's work all public domain now?  I forget- how long is copywrite good for?  I know he's been gone for almost 100 years, as they mentioned that they can finally print his autobiography soon....

Regardless, I think that's a silly argument.  First off, there's a huge difference between a written work and functional art.  I would say the better analogy would be sunflowers.  Can Van Goh's estate say no one can paint sunflowers?  No, they can't.  If it's exact in it's composition, that's one thing, but if the subject is the same, that's another.

I should probably not jump into this argument, but faulty logic bugs the heck out of me.


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## MesquiteMan

jtdesigns said:


> Please make no mistake I completely understand why the photo was taken down and I have nothing but great respect for our administrators as they were in fact trying to protect this site from legal action (something that was my doing).



The pic was NOT taken down to protect the site from legal action.  There were no threats of legal action made against IAP from anyone.


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## its_virgil

I don't know and that isn't the point. Had I chosen van whoever and sunflowers would my point have been better made? I don't think so. I was trying to make a point and I guess I should just come out and make it. I think Barry Gross does have the rights to his eco friendly pens including watch parts and cigar labels and beer caps. I think it is wrong for others to make and sell them witout Barry's permission. And, I think it is unfair how Barry is being dumped upon here and as Curtis said....Why is Barry made out to be the villian in regards to the watch parts pen? I just don't understand sometimes. Thanks for listening and remember my thoughts only and I know I have the right to have them without all of the negative comments. Thanks again.
Do a good turn daily!
Don



BigguyZ said:


> Isn't Mark Twain's work all public domain now? I forget- how long is copywrite good for? I know he's been gone for almost 100 years, as they mentioned that they can finally print his autobiography soon....
> 
> 
> I should probably not jump into this argument, but faulty logic bugs the heck out of me.


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## jttheclockman

its_virgil said:


> I don't know and that isn't the point. Had I chosen van whoever and sunflowers would my point have been better made? I don't think so. I was trying to make a point and I guess I should just come out and make it. I think Barry Gross does have the rights to his eco friendly pens including watch parts and cigar labels and beer caps. I think it is wrong for others to make and sell them witout Barry's permission. And, I think it is unfair how Barry is being dumped upon here and as Curtis said....Why is Barry made out to be the villian in regards to the watch parts pen? I just don't understand sometimes. Thanks for listening and remember my thoughts only and I know I have the right to have them without all of the negative comments. Thanks again.
> Do a good turn daily!
> Don
> 
> 
> 
> BigguyZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't Mark Twain's work all public domain now? I forget- how long is copywrite good for? I know he's been gone for almost 100 years, as they mentioned that they can finally print his autobiography soon....
> 
> 
> I should probably not jump into this argument, but faulty logic bugs the heck out of me.
Click to expand...

 


Don

You are well respected here as well as other sites so your opinion does carry weight weather you want to admit it or not. I think this is what you should have done in the beginning and not this beat around the bush thing.  I couldn't believe you did that.  I have posted my opinion in the other thread going on about this thing. I disagree with you and my points are made there. 

I think what Barry has a better chance of claiming as copyrighted is the wording ECO-FRIENDLY pens. I explained in the other post that the concept of casting items in resin and making a pen blank has been around for many years. To that is all this is another item cast in resin. Just like the many things show here before and the many thing show in the future, things cast in resin. I won't go into the whole speech again here but you can read what I said in the other thread.


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## DCBluesman

jttheclockman said:


> I think what Barry has a better chance of claiming as copyrighted is the wording ECO-FRIENDLY pens.


 
Those words cannot be copyrighted but he might get a trademark! :biggrin:


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## Greg O'Sherwood

Perhaps I'm missing something here, but why is there contention about this? Barry has a copyright. That affords him protection. If someone else knows of this process or form being done before, then all they have to do is prove it to the USPTO. If there is contention over the legitimacy, then it goes to court. IAP isn't that court. This isn't a matter of personal opinion, it's a matter of law.

Otherwise, he should be protected just like any of us would want to be. 

Why would anyone want to steal from one of our own? Especially when Barry has allowed some to make these as long as they aren't for personal profit? He's one of us. Anyone trying to infringe is no better than some foreign company trying to hawk pirated software or movies.

.


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## jttheclockman

DCBluesman said:


> jttheclockman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think what Barry has a better chance of claiming as copyrighted is the wording ECO-FRIENDLY pens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those words cannot be copyrighted by he might get a trademark! :biggrin:
Click to expand...

 
Thanks. Just goes to show how little I know about copyrights and trademarks. My work is not that inportant to go to those lengths. :biggrin:


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## Gary Max

No one owns Steampunk Art-----that's plain and simple..
You can find it for sale everywhere, for one person to say they have it copyrighted
is nothing more than a joke.
In a court room this would last about 2 minutes.


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## Russianwolf

DCBluesman said:


> jttheclockman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think what Barry has a better chance of claiming as copyrighted is the wording ECO-FRIENDLY pens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those words cannot be copyrighted but he might get a trademark! :biggrin:
Click to expand...


Google Eco-Friendly pen and you'll see that he can't do that either.


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## BigguyZ

Don,

I have nothing personal against you, as you have done a lot for the forum and the community in general.  I've read lots of your articles and I hope to be as good as you are.  The same goes for Barry- I don't besmirch the guy for wanting to protect his idea.

I just think the logic used in the argument was faulty.  I think it's been shown in various threads over and over again that you can copywrite the image of the pens Barry does, but the general idea of it is not something you can copywrite.  





its_virgil said:


> I don't know and that isn't the point. Had I chosen van whoever and sunflowers would my point have been better made? I don't think so. I was trying to make a point and I guess I should just come out and make it. I think Barry Gross does have the rights to his eco friendly pens including watch parts and cigar labels and beer caps. I think it is wrong for others to make and sell them witout Barry's permission. And, I think it is unfair how Barry is being dumped upon here and as Curtis said....Why is Barry made out to be the villian in regards to the watch parts pen? I just don't understand sometimes. Thanks for listening and remember my thoughts only and I know I have the right to have them without all of the negative comments. Thanks again.
> Do a good turn daily!
> Don
> 
> 
> 
> BigguyZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't Mark Twain's work all public domain now? I forget- how long is copywrite good for? I know he's been gone for almost 100 years, as they mentioned that they can finally print his autobiography soon....
> 
> 
> I should probably not jump into this argument, but faulty logic bugs the heck out of me.
Click to expand...


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## Russianwolf

Greg O'Sherwood said:


> Perhaps I'm missing something here, but why is there contention about this? Barry has a copyright. That affords him protection. If someone else knows of this process or form being done before, then all they have to do is prove it to the USPTO. If there is contention over the legitimacy, then it goes to court. IAP isn't that court. This isn't a matter of personal opinion, it's a matter of law.
> 
> Otherwise, he should be protected just like any of us would want to be.
> 
> Why would anyone want to steal from one of our own? Especially when Barry has allowed some to make these as long as they aren't for personal profit? He's one of us. Anyone trying to infringe is no better than some foreign company trying to hawk pirated software or movies.
> 
> .



Protection of what? The copyright says a 2-D item. So just the picture of the pens? That's been a lot of the question.

And yes, he is a member. With 4 posts. 3 hawking his books and dvds, and one addressing his conflict with JTdesign.


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## Greg O'Sherwood

Gary Max said:


> No one owns Steampunk Art-----that's plain and simple..
> You can find it for sale everywhere, for one person to say they have it copyrighted
> is nothing more than a joke.
> In a court room this would last about 2 minutes.


 

I've asked our company attorney - who does handle copyright and patent law, he was also a judge - and this was his determination:

_"I'd be willing to bet that if you made a steampunk art pen, and termed it as such, then you'd be safe. Steampunk is much more than watch parts and brass. Throw in some non-watch parts._
_Barry's copyright seems to hinge on the use of watch parts entirely and the description as such."_

He also believes that this copyright wouldn't survive unless Barry's model was CLOSELY copied, including most of the layout, but the challenge would have to be made in court. Also, Barry could determine that, depending on his confidence level, the defending of his copyright wouldn't be worth the cost and that just scaring others out of doing this for a few years gives him a market advantage, a head start, if you will.

.


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## Gary Max

Good info--I will add Steampunk Art to title


Duhhhhhhh----That's already what it says


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## David M

http://www.etsy.com/listing/43140304/steampunk-gear-pen


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## OKLAHOMAN

The best part is he/she said it used a standard Cross refill????????


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## Brooks803

wow...what a one of a kind pen that I can't find anywhere else....except for the SOYP thread of course...and I doubt the black and gold plating will last longer than ANY clock in my house.


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## arioux

Well i'm going to make one and if he sue me i say that i did not copy his pen , i copied this one !

http://www.slipperybrick.com/2008/10/19k-pen-with-watch-parts-that-dont-work/


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## LarryDNJR

Honestly I'd like to know why after reading most of these comments why I had one deleted by a mod where I was just in a sense trying to shed some light on a comment not needing to be said when someone was showing off something they did to be proud of regardless of who came up with the idea/style first?  I was suggested to post in a another forum if I wanted to discuss it further?  Is this the correct forum for that?  I mean no disrespect to the mod in question, I think he is a decent guy but seeing a posting here by him that basically did the same thing I did calling the person out of a comment.  

If I'm off base I apologize.  Just sort of confused.


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## cinder_ladylocket

Yikes....this took me forever to get thru all the postings. You can buy tons of steampunk watch gears etc on ebay...and if someone wants to make me some blanks...I would be the fist to buy some....I would even buy you the watch parts....Legal or not...its still art in one shape of form...and sorry...I seen that type of pen years ago when I was a teenager....so not sure why anyone thinks they have the right to say they own the idea...but thats just my thought...so...come on....make me some blanks.....


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## glwalker

Here's an idea... maybe original... maybe not.  

Mentioned in earlier posts was the thought of mass production and the associated high labor costs which would make it difficult to make "sellable" watch part/punkart pens.

Though admittedly not a real "classy" idea, could you make a nice layout of parts, take a high quality photo and wrap that around a tube to make a blank. (many blanks!)

If this seems like a good idea, whoever does this, just send me a pen in payment for my original thought.  Also if this is do-able, just think of all the possiblities.


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## jttheclockman

glwalker said:


> Here's an idea... maybe original... maybe not.
> 
> Mentioned in earlier posts was the thought of mass production and the associated high labor costs which would make it difficult to make "sellable" watch part/punkart pens.
> 
> Though admittedly not a real "classy" idea, could you make a nice layout of parts, take a high quality photo and wrap that around a tube to make a blank. (many blanks!)
> 
> If this seems like a good idea, whoever does this, just send me a pen in payment for my original thought. Also if this is do-able, just think of all the possiblities.


 

That has been suggested before and the problem with that is all you have is a decal. It does not have that 3D look you get when using real watch parts. Can it be done, sure it can. I would not want to buy that blank though but that is just me.  Have a great day.


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## bruce119

jttheclockman said:


> glwalker said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an idea... maybe original... maybe not.
> 
> Mentioned in earlier posts was the thought of mass production and the associated high labor costs which would make it difficult to make "sellable" watch part/punkart pens.
> 
> Though admittedly not a real "classy" idea, could you make a nice layout of parts, take a high quality photo and wrap that around a tube to make a blank. (many blanks!)
> 
> If this seems like a good idea, whoever does this, just send me a pen in payment for my original thought. Also if this is do-able, just think of all the possiblities.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That has been suggested before and the problem with that is all you have is a decal. It does not have that 3D look you get when using real watch parts. Can it be done, sure it can. I would not want to buy that blank though but that is just me.  Have a great day.
Click to expand...

 
I agree with JT it has been suggested on many things I do. An unsuspecting customer mite, just mite, get fooled but a true artist would never or should never settle for less than the real thing. And as was said you put them side by side it would be obvious to what was real. This goes for snake skin also a 2 D photo just dose not cut it.

.


----------

