# I was only a few more minutes away...



## MorganGrafixx (May 2, 2011)

...from turning my last pen ever. 

Went out into my shop to work on some more "Pens for Hope" (talk to Reddwill). I picked up one of the kits (gold) then went over to the wood cabinet to find a suitable wood blank. Haven't turned Marble Wood in a while, I thought to myself. Marble Wood will go nicely on that gold hardware. So I picked out a blank, marked it for cutting, cut it, drilled the holes, scuffed then CA'd in the tubes, then milled them flat. 
Over to the lathe to set them up for turning. All is still good. Then I notice this weird tickle in the back of my throat. I've inhaled dust from wood all the time, and when I do, i get some dust in the back of my throat and all I need to do is drink some water to flush the dust out. No biggie.
I turn on the lathe and start to round the blanks over. Tickle becomes stronger. Then I try to clear my throat and notice that my voice box has stopped working. Total time elapsed from first touching wood to this point is about 10 minutes.
I keep working. Get the blanks rounded in the next 30 seconds or so. Then I notice that I can't breathe in deeply at all. When I try to, it just sounds like wheezing followed by a really rough cough. This is when I knew something was wrong. Stepped outside to get some air and the hives started. 
I came in the house, grabbed a Benadryl and chewed it, stripped down and got in the shower. Total time elapsed now is about 15 minutes. 
As I write this, about 40-50 minutes has passed. I still can't breathe deeply, but it has not gotten any worse. Scary, scary stuff. 
I have never had an allergic reaction to anything in my life (other than Red Wasps as a kid). I've turned plenty of Marble Wood....and about every other kind of wood on Earth. Has anyone else experienced anything like this?


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## Lenny (May 2, 2011)

Not as severe as what you described but Cocobolo made me break out in a rash ... it took several weeks, topical ointment and medication to get rid of it. 
I was warned by some good people here that the next time could be worse .... so I avoid Cocobolo.

Anything that is messing with your ability to breathe is something that should be taken VERY seriously! I hope, for your sake, just avoiding certain woods will be all you have to watch out for!


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## hewunch (May 2, 2011)

Glad you figured it out. I haven't had this happen to me, but it would totally freak me out.


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## thewishman (May 2, 2011)

Yikes! Been thinking about dust collectors - you're made me think more seriously about getting one.


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## MorganGrafixx (May 2, 2011)

Yeah, years of training to be able to complete a task even under extreme conditions has made me able to push through most any pain or physical/mental problems. Fortunately for me, my wife hasn't been trained as a Marine. One look at her face told me something was really bad wrong. If she hadn't come out to the shop and made me stop, I probably wouldn't be typing this right now.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


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## terryf (May 2, 2011)

Anaphylactic reactions can be killers.

Our system tolerates allergies up to a point and then all of a sudden shows a reaction. Bee stings are a good example, many people show no reaction to bee stings and then all of a sudden almost die from one.

Glad you got the tablets in before the throat closed completely!

Even the best dust extraction equipment wont prevent it. You will need to protect respiratory tract as well as skin/eyes etc. Level C protection or better - probably easier to avoid the wood!


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## MorganGrafixx (May 3, 2011)

They are very expensive, but I think it's time I looked into one of those self contained helmets that has the respirator tube attached to a powered filter. Any of you guy have one of these? Thoughts?


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## micharms (May 3, 2011)

I used a Triton for a number of years but the bushings on the motor wore out and it would squeal loudly. Also the batteries wouldn't hold a charge. I liked it before all that happened but I recently purchased a used Racal (now 3M) Airmate 3 power respirator and it is great! Much more airflow than the Triton so it will work well during the summer. I have a couple of turner friends that have had these for a few years and swear by them.

Michael


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## MorganGrafixx (May 3, 2011)

THIS thing.


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## MorganGrafixx (May 3, 2011)

micharms said:


> I used a Triton for a number of years but the bushings on the motor wore out and it would squeal loudly. Also the batteries wouldn't hold a charge. I liked it before all that happened but I recently purchased a used Racal (now 3M) Airmate 3 power respirator and it is great! Much more airflow than the Triton so it will work well during the summer. I have a couple of turner friends that have had these for a few years and swear by them.
> 
> Michael



I'll look into that one. Do you have a link?


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## micharms (May 3, 2011)

I'd try and find a good used one if you can. I saved a bundle not buying new.

Airwareamerica.com has them. They price out around $800 and I paid less than half that for a very gently used model. I have some battery issues but I'm working through that with the seller.


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## micharms (May 3, 2011)

They don't sell a helmeted version of the Airmate 3 anymore but here is a link to the airstream.http://www.airwareamerica.com/3mhepaas400airstreamsystem.aspx
It is the one you see Bill Grumbine wearing in his video.
They both have HEPA filters.


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## Daniel (May 3, 2011)

Yes you need something just like that trend. A no fooling around air filter. Just consider the cost the hospital bill you narrowly avoided this time. Very likely will not next time. I didn't avoid the bill when it came to a hornet sting. trust me that shield is cheap cheap cheap in comparison. Of course no shield would have protected me from a sting but still do what you know to do.


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## Andrew_K99 (May 3, 2011)

Thank goodness it wasn't worse!  It's crazy how all the sudden you can become allergic to something.

I find it very strange how I and so many others will spend so much money on tools and kits and blanks but hesitate when spending money on safety items.  It's always the last thing someone wants to buy.  I've been meaning to buy a good respirator but just haven't gotten around to it ... it should be a lot higher on my list.

AK


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## Smitty37 (May 3, 2011)

*I have a Trend*

The only thing you need to make sure with the trend is that you get the right filters.  Mine filters good but not the real fine stuff, but you can get approved filters.


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## PenPal (May 3, 2011)

As a follow up on Air Stream batteries are easily repacked at low cost. The pack is easily cut around to expose the batteries inside and ganged anew for a fraction of the replacement battery pack, been doing this for many many years now, follow the seam around the pack it then opens up use a dremel with a cutting disk carefully. Then tape around or strong rubber bands and back in business.  Tip for today.

Kind regards Peter.


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## MorganGrafixx (May 3, 2011)

What about something like one of these? There's no way I can afford the Airmate at $1,000. Even the other one at $400 is way over my head. The one in the link looks to be what I will be able to afford....but I'll have to wait until payday before I can even get that one.


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## glycerine (May 3, 2011)

MorganGrafixx said:


> What about something like one of these? There's no way I can afford the Airmate at $1,000. Even the other one at $400 is way over my head. The one in the link looks to be what I will be able to afford....but I'll have to wait until payday before I can even get that one.


 
I have one like that and I FEEL like it works well, but who knows if it's really doing a good job.  I'd say at least get one like that so you have SOME kind of protection.  Also, I believe you can get those at lowes and home depot if you need it right away.  That's where I picked up mine...


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## Andrew_K99 (May 3, 2011)

Lee Valley also sells a few including a low profile model if you wear a face shield.

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=43647&cat=1,42207

AK


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## Steve Busey (May 3, 2011)

Scott, all the talk about a respirator is fine, but if you've developed a heightened sensitivity, skin contact or even airborne dust after you've removed the helmet might still cause a reaction. You might consider migrating to acrylic and other non-wood blanks - you wouldn't be the first one here. You should also get checked out at an allergy specialist. A pretty pen is not worth risking your health or life!


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## alinc100 (May 3, 2011)

MorganGrafixx said:


> What about something like one of these? There's no way I can afford the Airmate at $1,000. Even the other one at $400 is way over my head. The one in the link looks to be what I will be able to afford....but I'll have to wait until payday before I can even get that one.




Here is teh Trend Airshield Pro slightly cheaper and if you click the coupon in the link you get another 20% off.I am trying to save the money for one of these myself.

http://www.envirosafetyproducts.com/trend-airshield-pro.html


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## PaulDoug (May 3, 2011)

Here is where I ordered my Trend Pro.  $298 The cheapest I could find and no tax or shipping.  I received great service from them:

http://www.performancetoolcenter.com/face-shield.html


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## Dan_F (May 3, 2011)

Last I checked the Trend doesn't filter the finer, most dangerous dust. Even with protection, I'd stay away from marblewood from now on, maybe find out what it's related closely and stay away from those too. Many reactions are pretty species specific. Russ Fairfield used to say there are two kinds of turners: those who are allergic to cocobolo, and those who will be allergic to cocobolo. 

As someone else pointed out, skin contact with dust can cause a reaction too, so it's not just about breathing the dust. I'd check with your doc about getting one of those emergency "epi pens"  http://www.epipen.com/ people carry when they are allergic to bee sting, and keep it in the shop, just in case something similar happens in the future. 

Dan


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## sbell111 (May 3, 2011)

MorganGrafixx said:


> Yeah, years of training to be able to complete a task even under extreme conditions has made me able to push through most any pain or physical/mental problems. Fortunately for me, my wife hasn't been trained as a Marine. One look at her face told me something was really bad wrong. If she hadn't come out to the shop and made me stop, I probably wouldn't be typing this right now.


You forgot the bit about 'Improvise, Adapt, Overcome'.

Pushing through to death when alternatives are available to meet your goal is not something that I learned in the Corps.


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## reddwil (May 3, 2011)

Dang Scott, Sorry you went throught that. Call me if your up to turning some more for Pens For Hope, I got some more kits for you.


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## MorganGrafixx (May 3, 2011)

Thanks for the feedback guys! Going forward, I think I will try out wood that I'm unfamiliar with in very small doses. I turn equal parts wood and acrylic along with the occasional antler, horn, aluminum, corian, etc. I HOPE this is just species specific and not something that will cause me to stop turning wood all together! I love acrylics, but there's something about a highly figured, spalted or burled piece of wood that no acrylic can touch. 

One more question...Are there any sites or references out there that can show me a genus tree for wood species and/or common allergic properties of exotic wood?


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## MorganGrafixx (May 3, 2011)

sbell111 said:


> MorganGrafixx said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, years of training to be able to complete a task even under extreme conditions has made me able to push through most any pain or physical/mental problems. Fortunately for me, my wife hasn't been trained as a Marine. One look at her face told me something was really bad wrong. If she hadn't come out to the shop and made me stop, I probably wouldn't be typing this right now.
> ...



To right your are! Semper Fi by the way!


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## MorganGrafixx (May 3, 2011)

reddwil said:


> Dang Scott, Sorry you went throught that. Call me if your up to turning some more for Pens For Hope, I got some more kits for you.



Think I've got about 4 more to go on the ones I have now. But when I'm done with them, I'll come grab some more from you. In all honesty, there is no allergic inconvenience that I can comprehend that will compare even the slightest to what those kids have to go through on a daily basis at such a young age. I'd be willing to risk the allergies if it brightens even one kids' day. And that's the God's honest truth.


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## G1Pens (May 3, 2011)

http://www.hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/marblewood.htm

http://www.hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/index.htm


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## ghostrider (May 4, 2011)

MorganGrafixx said:


> ...
> 
> One more question...Are there any sites or references out there that can show me a genus tree for wood species and/or common allergic properties of exotic wood?


http://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/wood-allergies-and-toxicity/

http://www.cs.rochester.edu/u/roche/rec.wood.misc/wood.toxic

http://www.lumberpost.com/ArticleID-105.htm


Probably more out there, but that's what I found.


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## MorganGrafixx (May 4, 2011)

G1Pens said:


> http://www.hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/marblewood.htm
> 
> http://www.hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/index.htm





ghostrider said:


> MorganGrafixx said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



In all of these, there is TONS of great info that I can use for future reference. However, I can't find anything at all on the charts for Marblewood. The only thing I've found so far is the species information with pictures and such. I mean, it's great to know that there are 4 different types of Marblewood but only 1 true Marblewood, or the fact that it is a member of the Legume family and closely related to the Pea tree....but nothing on the wood toxicity.


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## CabinetMaker (May 4, 2011)

Allergies can develop over time.  Something that has never bothered you in the past can suddenly become deadly.  Talk to your doctor about an Epipen (no, it does not come in kit form :wink.  The next reaction you have could be much more severe and you might not have time for the Benadryl. Keep the Epipen with you and when that tickle starts, use it.


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## Hess (May 4, 2011)

Just an FYI If you shower to remove the contaminate DONT make it a hot steaming shower.
  When we go into Shock and /or have breathing or asthma like symptoms  Heat and humidity breathed in during a hot shower will increase  the breathing problems .

Take a cool shower  and see your doc about giving you what are called Epi Pens that you can inject yourself with

glad your ok.  I have a severe latex allergy from working as a RN  Just try to avoid Latex!  it even in our underwear!!!


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## ghostrider (May 4, 2011)

MorganGrafixx said:


> In all of these, there is TONS of great info that I can use for future reference. However, I can't find anything at all on the charts for Marblewood. The only thing I've found so far is the species information with pictures and such. I mean, it's great to know that there are 4 different types of Marblewood but only 1 true Marblewood, or the fact that it is a member of the Legume family and closely related to the Pea tree....but nothing on the wood toxicity.



Found this.

http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/hardwoods/marblewood/


> *Safety:* There have been no known adverse health effects associated with Marblewood. See the articles Wood Allergies and Toxicity and Wood Dust Safety for more information.



Also found this:
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/23524


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## MartinPens (May 4, 2011)

Taking into consideration that a respirator may not eliminate the issue - I still wanted to comment on the Trend Airshield Pro.  I purchased one of these about a month ago. I have been wanting to have the time to do a review and post here on the forum. I'll do a truncated version here.

I was having respiratory problems that were getting worse and finally, after turning some indian rosewood even with a dust collector,  had to take a break from turning to find a healthy solution.

I paid the bucks for the Trend and have been wearing it for a month.  I wish I would have gotten the deal that was posted in the earlier thread. I didn't do too bad with the deal I got through Amazon.com

I haven't had any problems since using the Airshield pro. I put it on, turn it on and keep it on the whole time I'm working in the shop.

Here are the CONS I have experienced:
* The helmet is a bit top heavy. It took me a good week to get used to it - but it has resulted in some stronger neck muscles. 
* It is NOT a complete sealed environment. While it does a great job - I think it's good to know that air flows out through a vented place under the chin. I have noticed a very slight whiff of CA smell when working with CA glue. So it's not impermeable.
* There is a very slight mirrored reflection of my face in the shield. I don't notice it anymore, but it was enough that I thought it should be mentioned.

Here are the PROS
* I breathe filtered clean air. I have experienced NO respiratory irritation since wearing it and I sleep better at night. (less snoring)
* I wear glasses and find it comfortable to wear them under the Trend
* My glasses do not fog up. My exhale passes through and out the bottom and I breathe in clean air. I'm a coffee drinker and I can't even smell the bad coffee breath - which I can smell when wearing other respirators (other respirators are uncomfortable to wear with glasses and cause fogging)
* My eyes are protected from the CA fumes. I might catch an occasional whiff of CA, but nothing like I used to.
* The battery life is long.  
* I did not find the helmet to be noisy - but take into consideration that I use a dust collector and wear earplugs to protect my hearing.

I bought the Trend Airshield Pro with the external battery cradle.   I realized after purchasing that the cradle wasn't necessary because the helmet can be plugged in while not in use.  However I have left the battery in the helmet without recharge to see how long it would last. It took two weeks of use (approx 3hrs a day 4 to 5 days a week) before the beeping sound which indicates a need for recharge.  I haven't found it necessary to buy an alternate battery, but could do this to have a charged battery waiting in the wings.

I did not buy the connectable ear protection - the reviews were not good on them and I have little ear plugs that I wear.

Overall I am very pleased with my purchase and now I breathe clearly.

Martin

Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner


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## okiebugg (May 4, 2011)

MorganGrafixx said:


> THIS thing.


 
I used to wear one of those things (medical quality) in the operating room (scrub tech) when doing or assisting in hip surgery or any large trauma to someones bones.

One thing that hasn't been said...If turning many of the exotics such as Coca Bola or other heavy oil filled rosewoods, do NOT touch your genetalia without thoroughly washing your hands. I may well be speaking from experience! No sex for nearly a month waiting to clear up the rash. Just think about it...An STD caused by wood to your woody.

Another to remember. If you've had a reaction to any type of wood, You can also have a reaction to dust getting into your armpits and the inside of your elbow joint. No matter what type of respirator you use, you cannot guard against this type of entry. If you're still having problems with taking a deep breath and swelling in your throat, I personally would see a Doctor for an Rx for an epinephren pen to carry with you when working with wood. You have had an anaphlactic reaction or induced asthma and need to guard against it.

*Semper Fi *34 years and five months in the greatest organization/Brotherhood in the world! Retired CSM


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## BKelley (May 4, 2011)

Scott,

Like Lenny, I get a rash when working with cocabolo, especially in the summer when my shop is hot and I sweat.  Evidently the dust sticks where sweat collects.  My eye lids get swollen and itch, chest gets rash as well as hands.  I still use cocobolo, but use a  product called "Liquid Gloves" and take a shower very soon after working.  It is my understanding that some woods have a natural bug repellant and this is what causes trouble when coming in contact with skin.  Be careful


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## Tage (May 4, 2011)

CabinetMaker said:


> Allergies can develop over time. Something that has never bothered you in the past can suddenly become deadly. Talk to your doctor about an Epipen (no, it does not come in kit form :wink. The next reaction you have could be much more severe and you might not have time for the Benadryl. Keep the Epipen with you and when that tickle starts, use it.


 

+++++1 on the Epipen.  You should have it on you at all times, it could save your life.  I too recommend following up with an allergist.  You'd be surprised how many other things (stuff you wouldn't even think is related to the wood you had the reaction to) you may have positive reactions to.  Thanks for opening the discussion on dust collection as this is something I've been thinking I need to get more serious about, esp since my 11 year old son enjoys turning pens.  I just bought one of those 3M masks shown in an earlier response, but the fit really wasn't airtight, which negates any benefit.  Lots of info from this thread to go through now.  Thanks all.


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## sbell111 (May 5, 2011)

I wonder what the quality of dust collection is for those that are having allergic reactions.


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## MorganGrafixx (May 5, 2011)

sbell111 said:
			
		

> I wonder what the quality of dust collection is for those that are having allergic reactions.



Oh. Yeah, dust collection.....er......yeah. Mine is a very sophisticated and technologically complicated series of mechanisms, whirligigs, doodads, and gizmos. Okay, you got me....the only "dust collection" I have is a shopvac hose clamped to whatever I can clamp it to so that it is facing the general direction of the lathe bed. Pretty pathetic, I know. But it's all I have.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner


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## bitshird (May 5, 2011)

Scott, I got hit with some Cocobolo dust, it had no effect on my skin, nor do any other of the Dalbergia family, and Rosewoods are notorious for respiratory problems and Dermatitis.
So far the only wood that has caused me any problems was the Coco I thought I had the Flu, my lungs felt like I had snorted Cayenne pepper. 
I do have a Dust Deputy Cyclonic dust separator with a large mouth which seems to catch a big part of what ultra fine dust from sanding and it's hooked to a Big Shop Vac, and being a financially challenged individual I was forced to cheap out, and get a pretty decent respirator for 45.00 and change, but when I'm turning Ash,Sapele or now Yellow Birch for tool handles I don't use the respirator, just when doing Cocobolo.
 I've turned several pens with Marblewood and I did have one piece that smelled like a gym sock, Not as bad as Sourwood or any thing just an unpleasant odor, I hope you bounce back fast.


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## sbell111 (May 6, 2011)

I'd equate the smell of turning marblewood to a backed up septic system.


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## rkimery (May 6, 2011)

After this I went out to the shop and finished the final connections to my new dust collector!  Hope all is well now by now Scott!  Take care of yourself!


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