# Please be careful in your shop



## Marnat3 (Jun 3, 2016)

Ok , so this is the first time since the 16th of May I have been able to sit and type this out.
Here's the story...
While waiting for dinner to cook I decided to rough out a bowl, about 8" across and 3" thick. Measured center and mounted it with a 4 prong drive and live center. 
Spinning to speed went well until it started to vibrate. 
Here comes the fun part, 
as I reach to turn off the lathe, the bowl blank lets loose hitting me on the left cheek bone causing a level 3 LaFort fracture across to the other(right) cheek bone, breaking my upper jaw and moving 3 teeth on the left upper side in. 
So last Wed I had 2 plates put in my face and having my eye sockets put back in place and pinned. My jaw has been wired shut for just over a week now. teeth still out of wack. Tomorrow I might be able to have motion in my jaw back but still eating through a straw.
So ,everyone PLEASE, PLEASE be careful when getting thins up to speed and when ever something doesnt seem right, Make sure you are not in harms way. 
I got hit because I was standing in front of the lathe on the opposite side of the on/off switch and reached across to turn it off when it let go.


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## jttheclockman (Jun 3, 2016)

Hate to ask where was your face shield???


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## Marnat3 (Jun 3, 2016)

Had not put it on yet. Was in my hand.
Doctor said if I had been wearing the safety glasses I usually wear I would have most likely lost my eye.


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## Jack Parker (Jun 3, 2016)

Hate to hear that but glad it wasn't any worse than it was. Here's to a speedy recovery.


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## Herb G (Jun 3, 2016)

Get well soon man. Whew!


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## stonepecker (Jun 3, 2016)

Heal quickly and completely.  Keep repeating your warnings.
Remember what you did wrong and do not repeat.
Can we ever be to careful?  NO..... and by passing on these stories, hopefully we can save others pain.

Thank you.


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## JimB (Jun 3, 2016)

Thanks for posting this as a reminder to everyone about safety. Any idea what caused it to start vibrating? I wish you a quick recovery.

I always wear a full faceshield even when turning pens. Even a pen blank can do some damage if it goes flying.


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## jcm71 (Jun 3, 2016)

Wow, that is scary.  Glad you are on the road to recovery.


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## mark james (Jun 3, 2016)

My thoughts are with you for a quick/complete recovery.  Thank you for posting as it may save another turner an accident.


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## Jim15 (Jun 3, 2016)

Sorry to read this. I hope you heal up quickly.


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## TellicoTurning (Jun 3, 2016)

Been there, done that, only not as bad as what you did... my 10" bowl came out of a Longworth chuck, careened off my left cheek, blacked my eye, bruised my face and taught me to ALWAYS put my face shield on BEFORE I turn on the lathe.... 

We often do the lathe so often we get complacent about our safety and we need something to remind us.... just not a broken face.  We have to remember that the wood is spinning towards us and sometimes at a high rate of speed.  

Another reason I always start a bowl on a face plate... I just don't trust the drives to hold.  

Hope you heal really fast and no permanent damage.


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## hilltopper46 (Jun 3, 2016)

Thanks for sharing - good reminder to be safe.


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## nativewooder (Jun 3, 2016)

No disrespect intended, but your Doctor doesn't know what he is talking about!  Just another W.A.G!

Those of us who learned about Safety Practices from experience while learning to turn wood, can advocate Face Shields, Safety Glasses, and all the Best Practices as stated by the AAW, but there are always you exceptions to all the rules who blame it on equipment, trees, God, and anything but yourselves.  We have had many highly skilled and experienced woodturners come to our monthly meetings with stitched-up cuts on their face and head and arms, and other injuries caused by stupidity.  Every year the AAW loses members to death from brain injuries!  I know a lot of our woodturners can't read much past 3rd grade level, but please use your common sense to realize that your beautiful wood block can become a deadly missile in a split-second!  Take your time and get prepared before you put your unprotected brain in front of that high-speed missile when it comes out of that chuck!:frown:


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## tomtedesco (Jun 3, 2016)

Glad you are able to tell your story, everyone has had close calls so its a good reminder, get well.


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## Bob in SF (Jun 3, 2016)

Awful accident - sincere best wishes for a speedy recovery.


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## Pete275 (Jun 3, 2016)

Gee Barry, Just a little harsh don't you think. I think by posting what happened here he is taking responsibility for his actions and warning the rest of us not to do the same. Secondly I think his doctor meant if he'd been wearing just the glasses and not the face shield he'd have lost an eye. At least that's how I read it.
Mark, hope you have a quick recovery and thanks for posting your experience! 

Wayne


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## Jimos (Jun 3, 2016)

Thanks for sharing and best wishes on your road to recovery.


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## raar25 (Jun 3, 2016)

What was the RPM?  I was using a similar chuck and had a large laminated bowl fly off while still in square state a while back.  Not once but twice.  It bounced off of the near buy wall and across the work shop.  I was standing out the line of fire fortunately but I got a real appreciation what 10 pounds of wood will do to anything it hits (wall, furniture, face etc) spinning at 500 rpm.  

Get well soon so you can get back to turning.  

So to all those reading this, its just another example that safety glasses are crap and do not protect you enough and they don't do a good just of stopping wood chips.  So if  you don't have a face shield save yourself a lot of pain and buy one.


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## Marnat3 (Jun 3, 2016)

The glasses I normally wear are the Buddy Holly type with the wire screen side shields. The Doc said the way the wood hit it would have driven the frame into the eye socket.
That is all I want to do is remind people not to become so complacent in their routine that it becomes unsafe.
From what i can tell there was a softer spot on the drive side that let go. There is a semi spiral groove on that side. 
Thanks everyone for the good thoughts.


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## leehljp (Jun 3, 2016)

Mark, 
I also want to thank you for posting it. There are some people  who feel too embarrassed to post their mistakes. :redface: It helps us all to know that these things happen, and that the damage can be limited in most cases, and prevented in others.

I have read many accidents like this over the years, as Barry wrote about above.

One thing I have noticed here on this forum is that bowl turners who start turning pens generally opt for slower turning speed of pens, simply because of their background. ON The Other Hand, those who start with pen turning and branch into bowls do not realize how much their habits take over as they start turning bowls. (Shucks, there were no seat belts when I started driving. Even today, I habitually pull out into the street before putting on my seat belt. Habits are hard to change.) 

With pen turning, the speed is not much of a factor on a blank. And the face mask is kinda seen as a deterrent to chips flying. So, if it is not on when one cranks up the lathe, no big deal - so we are conditioned to think. However, when we jump to bowls, it is a different beast entirely. 

Lackadaisical Habits, thinking, and even intuition developed through experience MUST change when the turning media changes. I am not addressing this to Mark, but to all of us. TO those who started their turning experience with pens, BEWARE, when going into turning bowls and plates. We don't see the dangers nearly as much as with pens as happens with bowls, and that can be deadly. Put the mask on FIRST; Cut the speed DOWN for bowls BEFORE turning on.

The outside speed of a 1 inch pen blank is turning at 3.14 inches per revolution or just over 500 ft per minute at 2000 RPM. A 10 inch bowl outer diameter is traveling at over 5000 ft per minute at that RPM! Add that to the Mass/weight, and pen turning dynamics are absolutely minuscule in comparison. 

Thanks Mark for this wake up call, and get well!


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## Marnat3 (Jun 3, 2016)

Thats exactly what happened. pens to bowls are a different animal altogether. No offense taken from anyone. It just took a little while for what happened to sink in and my brain to analyze what happened.


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## jsolie (Jun 3, 2016)

Yikes!  Hope you heal quickly.


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## Edgar (Jun 3, 2016)

Wow! Sorry to hear about that, Mark. Best wishes for a quick recovery.

Thanks for sharing your story - we can never be too safe and it is always worthwhile to be reminded to take our time & do our safety checks before switching on the equipment.


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## mecompco (Jun 3, 2016)

Sorry to hear about what happened! I have considered trying a bowl at some point--I will make sure to slow the lathe down (I never take it off max speed when turning pens) and make damned sure I have my shield on! Hope you heal up fast.

Regards,
Michael


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## Rockytime (Jun 3, 2016)

So glad you survived. Turning bowls makes me nervous so I don't. Hope your healing goes well.


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## Marnat3 (Jun 3, 2016)

Thanks all.


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## MTViper (Jun 4, 2016)

Sorry to hear about your injury and wish you a speedy recovery. 

One thing we do need to understand is that there is NO face shield that would have prevented or mitigated your injuries.  That's not what they are for.  Face shields are designed to protect you from flying chips, not flying chunks.  They aren't designed or tested to resist the forces involved in a bowl blank coming off the lathe.  Lynne Yamaguchi learned this the hard way in 2012.  In the June 2014 AAW magazine she wrote an article describing here experience.  

The first thing she did when she went back to turning was to re-install the guard on her lathe that she'd removed because it was "in the way" (I put mine back on too).  That might have saved her.  She's also started wearing a police riot helmet with polycarb face shield when she turns big blanks.  I'm looking into getting one.

I spent 30 years in the safety field and don't believe in "always" or "never" safety solutions.  They teach compliance not judgment.  My prescription bi-focals are safety glasses and I wear them all the time when I'm turning.  That's my choice.  Safety glasses are a minimum protection for turners.  If you wish to wear a face shield when turning a pen, by all means go for it, but don't expect it to protect you from a 5lb chunk turning at 2000 rpm.  The hazard presented by pen blank chips or chunks probably wouldn't require a face shield.  

There are some good practices, though, that we all should incorporate regardless of what we turn:
1) stay out of the plane of motion when starting and stopping;
2) know what speed the lathe is set at before starting;
3) don't start the lathe if the speed is set higher than is safe for what you're turning;
4) know the appropriate speed for turning what's is on your lathe;
5) know the speed limits on using chucks and other tools;
6) know the strengths and limitations of your PPE.

I have a sign on the door to my shop that says "This machine has no brain ... use yours".  I use it as a reminder every time I enter the shop.

Steve


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## jttheclockman (Jun 4, 2016)

MTViper said:


> Sorry to hear about your injury and wish you a speedy recovery.
> 
> One thing we do need to understand is that there is NO face shield that would have prevented or mitigated your injuries.  That's not what they are for.  Face shields are designed to protect you from flying chips, not flying chunks.  They aren't designed or tested to resist the forces involved in a bowl blank coming off the lathe.  Lynne Yamaguchi learned this the hard way in 2012.  In the June 2014 AAW magazine she wrote an article describing here experience.
> 
> ...




Terminology my friend  Face shield can mean different things.

Good read.


http://www.scwwoodshop.com/safety/faceshield.pdf


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## MTViper (Jun 4, 2016)

jttheclockman said:


> Terminology my friend  Face shield can mean different things.
> 
> Good read.



Actually, it's not just terminology.  According to OSHA:  "Face shields are intended to protect the entire face or portions of it  from impact hazards such as flying fragments, objects, large chips, and  particles. When worn alone, face shields _do not_ protect employees from impact hazards."  (https://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/eyeandface/ppe/impact.html#faceshields) 

I know OSHA can't tell you what to do in your own shop, but we might as well be precise in the language.  And they have done the research to see what works and what doesn't so it can't hurt to at least look at what they say.


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## MTViper (Jun 4, 2016)

If someone will tell me how to attach a PDF file, I will upload Lynne Yamaguchi's article.  The piece that hit her had a force equal to almost 30x the force required to be absorbed by a high speed impact for a face shield (as given in JT's posting).


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## jttheclockman (Jun 4, 2016)

There is no need to show us. Just for everyone's information. The lathe is not the only tool to be careful of. Any time in a shop where there are sharp objects, turning objects and tools that are spinning at high rate of speeds need your full attention. We all can post fingers cut off and hands mutilated but it should go without saying to be careful and you should never need to be reminded. It should be in-bedded in your mind. This thread falls off the front page and gets lost in a few days. I hope you do need stories like this to keep reminding you of any danger. 

I am sorry to read the OP mishap. I hope they get better real quick and do hope they do get right back with it  and again it is not only the lathe that can hurt you. Respect your tools and if it doesn't feel right it probably is not. Learn the do's and don'ts of your tools and they will serve you well. 

Work safe all.


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## Marnat3 (Jun 5, 2016)

My wife went to a garage sale today and got me something for when I head out to the shop.
At least she has a sense of humor.(She married me, right).


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## Kragax (Jun 5, 2016)

I wish you a speedy recovery.


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## TellicoTurning (Jun 5, 2016)

jttheclockman said:


> There is no need to show us. Just for everyone's information. The lathe is not the only tool to be careful of. Any time in a shop where there are sharp objects, turning objects and tools that are spinning at high rate of speeds need your full attention. We all can post fingers cut off and hands mutilated but it should go without saying to be careful and you should never need to be reminded. It should be in-bedded in your mind. This thread falls off the front page and gets lost in a few days. I hope you do need stories like this to keep reminding you of any danger.
> 
> I am sorry to read the OP mishap. I hope they get better real quick and do hope they do get right back with it  and again it is not only the lathe that can hurt you. Respect your tools and if it doesn't feel right it probably is not. Learn the do's and don'ts of your tools and they will serve you well.
> 
> Work safe all.



John is exactly right... I've suffered several small accidents in my shop, none of which have been severe or created a drastic injury, but each has served to remind me to pay attention and not get complacent in my working.... I've suffered a kick back on my little table saw, left me walking funny and speaking a little higher for a few hours, I've nicked my thumb, just broken the skin fortunately on my band saw for using a dull blade and trying to force a cut, I've taken a bowl off the cheek using a homemade and unsafe chuck and not wearing the face shield...which may not completely stop an impact, but may lessen the damage... each little reminder though has kept me aware that while wood turning is a tremendous pleasure, it can be fraught with danger if the brain isn't fully engaged.  In and of themselves our tools won't hurt us, but they can allow us to hurt ourselves if not used with proper knowledge and caution.

I too wish the OP a speedy recovery.


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## jttheclockman (Jun 5, 2016)

Chuck mentions the tablesaw. That is probably the #1 tool that causes injuries. Those can be far greater than a lathe too. Kickbacks on a tablesaw can also launch wood with tremendous force in a blink of an eye. Please stay safe and use your head. Do not even go into a shop if tired or in the wrong frame of mind. No commission or contract is worth it.


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