# Baron Fountain Pen nib



## mike_l (Dec 26, 2006)

A client asked for a medium nib for his Baron Fountaion pen I made for him last month.  Would this one fit the Baron, and if not where should I look. 
http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/cgi-bin/shopper?preadd=action&key=050-4093
I know very little about fountain pens. 

Thanks in adavance,
Mike


----------



## gerryr (Dec 26, 2006)

I think your customer knows less than you.[]  The nibs that come with the Baron and all other kits are medium.  Is he saying the stock nib is too broad?  I have used both CSUSA and Berea medium nibs and can't see any difference in line width between them, in fact I can't really tell that my Berea fine nib is really finer than the medium.  If he wants a finer line, BB has different size nibs available.


----------



## DCBluesman (Dec 27, 2006)

For clarity's sake, the medium nibs that come standard on our kit pens is a European medium.  If they use Japanese fountain pens with a medium Japanese nib, then they will prefer a fine nib.  Bill Baumbeck (www.arizonasilhouette.com) sells nibs to fit the Baron on his site.  I would be cautious about the CS USA nibs since the new kits are coming in uni-plating.


----------



## jeffj13 (Dec 27, 2006)

Is your client someone who is familiar with using fountain pens?  If not, he may be pressing too hard when he is writing.  This would create a thicker line than normal for a particular nib.

jeff


----------



## mike_l (Dec 27, 2006)

For clarification, he actually thinks this nib is too fine.  He wants a broader stroke to his writing.  He said he thought the pen came with a <u>fine</u>nib and <u>wants a medium</u>.  I hope that makes more sense. 


I'll check BB's site for nibs.  Thanks for all the help guys.  I think I'll try to get him a "broad" nib and see if he likes that.  

I really want to take care of this guy. He works for the local newspaper and got me a full page article on my pens last May.  That got me a lot of business and he bought 9 pens from me himself!

Thanks again,
Mike


----------



## Firefyter-emt (Dec 27, 2006)

Well if that is the case, buy him a broad. If you really want to go all out, but a med & the broad. If he likes the broad, you will now be able to convert any compatable pen to a FP on the fly for a sale. If you had a really nice one, you could sell it as a "Roller ball / Fountain Pen" combo. The nib kits are only about $5.00, just get them both. Hard to loose that way.


----------



## les-smith (Dec 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Firefyter-emt_
> <br /> If he likes the broad, you will now be able to convert any compatable pen to a FP on the fly for a sale. If you had a really nice one, you could sell it as a "Roller ball / Fountain Pen" combo. The nib kits are only about $5.00, just get them both. Hard to loose that way.



Hey Firefyter-emt, Could you expand a little on the combo/conversion idea?  I'm just getting into the fountain pen stuff and this intrigues me, the ability to do either/or.


----------



## ed4copies (Dec 27, 2006)

Beware: The replacement nibs are frequently NOT gold, as are the originals.  AND they need to be TN, if they ARE gold color.

Just watch what you are ordering.[]


----------



## DCBluesman (Dec 27, 2006)

From http://arizonasilhouette.com/Fountain_Pen_Nibs.htm . "The Baron (fountain pen) nibs are two-tone and come with the nib attached to the nib foundation. They simply screw into the plated tube contained with the kit.  The metal ring is chrome plated and compliments all kit platings."  The replacement nibs I have ordered from CS USA have all been uni-tone gold-colored.  I'm not too worried about the fountain pen nib being titanium as it is rarely handled.


----------



## ed4copies (Dec 27, 2006)

Sorry, Lou.

What I meant was the nib housing is frequently plastic (black) and not gold (of any kind).  This may NOT be the case with Bill, but I have had the problem with some replacement nibs, I don't remember where.

As I said (not very clearly), just watch what you are ordering.  I GOT what I ordered, I just did NOT WATCH what I ordered.

NOW, is THAT sufficiently nebulous???????????????/[:0][:0][:0]


----------



## gerryr (Dec 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by les-smith_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...



Rollerball and fountain pen kits, of the same style, are identical except for the nib, so have an extra nib would allow you to remove the RB nib and replace it with a FP nib instantly.  I've done this several times and customers are really impressed.


----------



## ed4copies (Dec 27, 2006)

To further clarify/confuse:

<b>COPYRIGHTED PHOTOS REMOVED</b>

Here is the replacement:

<b>COPYRIGHTED PHOTOS REMOVED</b>

They DON'T have the plating,  they are black plastic!  There is a difference between the replacement and the "original equipment".[][][]


----------



## gerryr (Dec 27, 2006)

Ed,
The original unscrews from the metal part and the replacement screws in.  The long black plastic part is not visible when you after you change them.  I just verified that by removing the nib from my personal Baron FP.


----------



## ed4copies (Dec 27, 2006)

Gerry,

THANKS, but I am still lost.  I will try to educate myself on this tonight.  

You are removing the metal part from the rollerball and installing it over the plastic, round replacement fountain pen assembly????

Do I have this correct?????


----------



## gerryr (Dec 27, 2006)

Ed,
The metal part(nib holder) that screws into the nib coupler(you got all that?[]) is a tapered tube with threads on the outside for the coupler and threads on the inside for that whole plastic nib section in your bottom photo.  To remove the original get a firm grip on the metal tube with one hand, then grasp the actual nib and feed and unscrew it, counter-clockwise as usual.  What comes out will look just like your bottom photo.
Are you thoroughly confused yet??????[]

OOPS, I didn't answer your question completely.  To change a RB into a FP, you have to remove the entire nib assembly from the nib coupler, not just the thing in your bottom photo.  Look at the parts for a Baron RB and FP and you'll see that th nib sections are different shapes, but the threads for the coupler are the same.


----------



## Mikey (Dec 27, 2006)

But can the metal part from the RB be used with the FP to hide the black plastic, or do you have to get the metal nib holder?


----------



## gerryr (Dec 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Mikey_
> <br />But can the metal part from the RB be used with the FP to hide the black plastic, or do you have to get the metal nib holder?


I wish Ed hadn't posted that picture.  You cannot put a FP nib and feed in a rollerball nib holder, but you can easily switch nib holders between a FP and A RB.  What I'm calling the nib holder is the whole section that screws into the nib coupler, on a Baron RB, it happens to hexagonal.  I may need to take some pictures tonight and post them.


----------



## Mikey (Dec 27, 2006)

"You cannot put a FP nib and feed in a rollerball nib holder"

I think this is what the original question was all about. Basically, you need the new chrome nib holder for a FP to go along with the nib/black plastic part. Are the nib holders available seperately?

the way you made it sound at first was that you can re-use the part from the RB and just insert the new FP nib into the RB chrome nib holder.


----------



## gerryr (Dec 27, 2006)

I should have used different terminology.  The entire nib holder can be easily swapped between a FP and a RB.  As far as I know, you can't buy just the metal nib holder part.  I always have Barons in both rollerball and fountain pen configurations so swapping parts is fairly easy.


----------



## ed4copies (Dec 27, 2006)

But, if that's what you are doing, subtract the cost of the WHOLE KIT!  I understand THAT equation.  

I just don't like it and am looking for a better answer. 
(Spelled C-H-E-A-P-E-R)[][]


----------



## Firefyter-emt (Dec 27, 2006)

Huh.. When  I have bought the nib sets from CSUSA they have come with the "outer housing" that threads into the body not just the inner nib holder. It does look like the AZ ones are just the inner nib holder.

Here is the CSUSA nib (although, they do not have the silver holders, only black & gold)


----------



## DCBluesman (Dec 27, 2006)

That's exactly the look that most of us are trying to avoid,


----------



## gerryr (Dec 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by ed4copies_
> <br />But, if that's what you are doing, subtract the cost of the WHOLE KIT!  I understand THAT equation.
> 
> I just don't like it and am looking for a better answer.
> (Spelled C-H-E-A-P-E-R)[][]


You're not losing or wasting anything.  All you do is swap parts between a FP and a RB.  I don't know what cheaper answer there could be.


----------



## Mikey (Dec 27, 2006)

What Lou and to an extent now myself are tying to say is that we don't want to need to buy a whole seperate FP kit if we can buy the parts to convert for half the cost of new. If that could be done, then all that would need to ever be ordered is the RB kit and a few FP parts for a potential conversion. 

In the grand scheme of things, it probably doesn't matter as I always end up making turnings for pen kits I don't have because I buy extra tubes. When I need a certain plating, i just install the pre made tubes onto the kit.


----------



## gerryr (Dec 27, 2006)

Unfortunately, this would be like building a car by going to the auto parts store and buying all the necessary parts.  The $20,000 car would cost at least $30,000 in parts and you would still have to assemble it.  On a few occasions I've had to buy spare parts from CSUSA and have been astounded at the cost.  BB sells a kit to convert the El Presidente, which is only a rollerball, into a fountain pen.  When I needed to do that, I found it was only a bit more expensive to just buy an El Toro, plus I have those extra parts now that will soon be made into a pen.  In an ideal world, suppliers would only sell parts, at reasonable prices, instead of kits, but it would be hell for a beginner to figure out what they needed.


----------



## ed4copies (Dec 27, 2006)

Yes, but after 10 years of making pens, seems I ought to be able to carry just the nibs to transform my rollerballs to dual purpose: fountain pen and rollerball.  Then go home and make more rollerballs, with the possibility of doing this again.

Yes, I can manage to take a fountain pen nib off one pen and put it on another, except now you also have to be concerned if there is no spring in the other end, you can't just use the "once was fountain pen" and make it a rollerball, unless you are also transferring the "spring end" as well.

While it sounds like I am trying to be argumentative, I really have been interested in a way to avoid $10 for a fountain pen kit, so I could NOT USE half the components.  I still would like to hear of such an alternative.

[][]


----------



## bjackman (Dec 27, 2006)

Ed,
Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're asking.
Situation: You have a made/completed Baron RB in chrome plating, Right?
You <u>want </u>to have a Baron FP in chrome plating.
Buy a new Baron FP kit. 
On the completed RB you have already made, unscrew the RB nib/section, remove the refill and fish the spring out of the end.
Screw in the FP nib/section from the new kit you bought.
Put the RB nib/section, refill & spring into the baggie with the rest of the Baron parts. Scribble out Fountain Pen on the baggie label and write Rollerball to avoid future confusion when you complete assemble and sell a full, complet Baron rollerball to a happy customer.
[}][)]


----------



## ed4copies (Dec 27, 2006)

Bill,

You're close.  I want to give the customer the choice (include both the FP AND the RB nibs) so he can make it a rollerball today and a fountain pen tomorrow, then back to a rollerball on Friday.

To do this, I could sell a RB and include a FP nib (for an additional cost).  However, to have that nib include the gold or silver finish, I need to take it from a new kit, NOT a replacement nib.  So, the rest of the new kit is now "spare parts".  This is what I am trying to circumvent![][]

Told you I could be sufficiently obscure![:0][:0][:0]


----------



## PenWorks (Dec 27, 2006)

What do you have against free spare parts [:0] 
You sell him a RB, then for $25.00 you sell him the FP conversion kit, which is the front section and pump . You have now recouped your kit cost, made a few bucks and have some free spare parts. []

I sold 6 pens today and not one was in the right configuration, every RB I had to make a FP & every FP I hade to make a roller. Having the spare pens or parts sure helps save sales.


----------



## Firefyter-emt (Dec 27, 2006)

Anthony hit the nail right on the head. You "can" sell off nib for the cost of the kit and retain the spare parts. This is one thing that CSUSA has going for them. I bought a fine nib once and it came with all the pieces to thread into the Americana kit, for about $5.00 sadly, this might work with the barron, but the nib will not look quite right IMHO.


----------



## jeffj13 (Dec 27, 2006)

Ed,

fwiw, I get it and I agree with you. 

Lee and Anthony, while what you say is will work for some paying customers, it won't work for all in that you will hit a price "pain point".  It also don't think it is feasible for gifts. 

The ideal solution would be to be able to buy just a nib that looks exactly like the one that come with the kit.  Look at it this way,if I want to w ap out for high performance tires, I don't have to buy a whole new car.

jeff


----------



## gerryr (Dec 27, 2006)

From a practical standpoint, selling a pen with both a rollerball nib section and a fountain pen nib section is not a great idea.  The customer uses the FP for a few days, then decides to use the RB so the FP nib section gets taken off and replaced for a week or so by the RB nib section.  When the FP nib is replaced on the pen, it isn't going to write and the customer will not be happy.  The ink will dry in the feed and clog it.  Sorry, but the tire analogy doesn't work, because you can take one set of tires off your car and put on another set and the first set will still work just fine after several years of non-use.  Fountain pens aren't tires.


----------



## Firefyter-emt (Dec 27, 2006)

Ture, but I have had a sale where a woman was really going abck and forth on a FP and was not sure, I had a spare Americana nib set and for the extra $5.00 I was able to sell her that nib at my cost and told her that she would have the FP, but if her husband did not like it, it could be converted back to the RB. I like the clear plastic pen tubes for this use. I gave her one of those cheap tubes with all the RB parts in it to keep them togather. Common sence does need to apply, if they left the cap off for days thy would have the same problems. My only point is that these pens are kits that can be converted just by swapping over parts, either by a new kit, of the nibs that CSUSA sells for the Americana series (I think they fit many other kits like the Euro, Cigar ect) However, only gold [!]

The dried ink problem can be solved by just telling the buyer that the pen will need to be flushed. I like to show people how to fill & flush the pens. I have also started giving ink samples in small glass bottles. (as seen in this photo, this has 2 samples as it was a gift. The buyer did not know if they wanted black or blue)






Again, it's all about the service. If they don't know anything about the pen, then take a few minutes to show them.


----------



## ed4copies (Dec 27, 2006)

Gerry,

I agree the customer will NOT use both.  However, if he wants to BUY both, I would rather not get in his way.  That is not listening to your customer (see CSUSA thread!!)

So far, it has only happened a couple times, so it's not real important - but, initially, I thought you had figger'd out somethin' I missed.  No such luck!![][]


----------



## jeffj13 (Dec 27, 2006)

Gerry,

I wouldn't envision this scenario as one where the customer will be constantly switching back and forth.  I see it where the customer is not certain what type of pen they want ( or it is a gift and I am not certain) or the customer has never used a fountain pen before and wants to give it a try.  They are more likely to purchase a fountain pen if they know that if they don't like it, they can convert to a rollerball.

jeff


----------



## gerryr (Dec 27, 2006)

So far and I guess I have been lucky, I have not had a customer waffle back and forth between a rollerball and fountain pen.  The ones I have sold fountain pens too have been certain that was what they wanted and the same goes for rollerballs.  If they were waffling, I would just sell them a matched set.[]  If they're considering a pen as a gift and they can't decide between the two, I would recommend the rollerball, unless they know absolutely that the recipient uses fountain pens.


----------



## jeffj13 (Dec 28, 2006)

> _Originally posted by gerryr_
> <br />If they're considering a pen as a gift and they can't decide between the two, I would recommend the rollerball, unless they know absolutely that the recipient uses fountain pens.



Gerry,  I agree.  In fact, I won't give or sell a fountain pen to someone who I know has never used one before. 

However, as a fountain pen user myself, I would like to introduce others to the pleasure of using one.  The rollerball/fountain pen "combo" provides a risk free way to do that.

jeff


----------

