# Barrel Trimming on a Disc Sander....Problems



## wizical (Jan 11, 2009)

so I have been running into problems with barrel trimming on my Delta Disc Sander.  It seems that they come out uneven.  what is the best way to do it?  Any Advice would be greatly appreciated.  

My setup includes a miter gauge that is setup 90 degrees to the sander, '

I cant seem to figure out why they come out uneven.  Thanks again for the help.


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## TellicoTurning (Jan 11, 2009)

I can't help you on this one... when I use the sander mine always come out uneven too.  I stay with the pen mills.


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## Russianwolf (Jan 11, 2009)

Your table may be set to 90 degrees, but when the sander is putting downward force on the piece, is the table staying at 90 or is it flexing?

I've had problems with sanders and the mills, I've since switched to a method I came up with to do it on the lathe. I've had 0 problems since switching.


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## wizical (Jan 11, 2009)

Russianwolf said:


> Your table may be set to 90 degrees, but when the sander is putting downward force on the piece, is the table staying at 90 or is it flexing?
> 
> I've had problems with sanders and the mills, I've since switched to a method I came up with to do it on the lathe. I've had 0 problems since switching.



I dont think the table flexes, I will check it next time i use it.

what is your method on the lathe, you got my attention


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## KenV (Jan 11, 2009)

Are you indexing on the alignment of the tube or the outside of the blank.    Jay Pickens did a nice tutorial on the topic and how to adjust the mandreal/rod to be at right angle to the disk.


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## ssajn (Jan 12, 2009)

When you trim your blanks you must trim them square with the tube not the outside of the blank. It's easiest to use a pen mill.


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## rherrell (Jan 12, 2009)

I recommend making the blank squaring jig from the Jay Pickens tutorial. You MUST square the TUBE, not the BLANK.

Get yourself one of those little 2" machinists squares and square up the SHAFT of the blank squaring jig to the disc, OR, cut yourself a little 2" square of wood, but be sure to check it with your regular square before using it.


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## KenV (Jan 12, 2009)

P.S.  The Jay Pickens article from 2005 is in the library at 

http://content.penturners.org/articles/2005/blanksquaring.pdf

Still a right fine piece of practical work.  

P.P.S.   Do not remember seeing anything about Jay for some time --  Hope all is well with him as he was an inspiration for many of us.


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## VisExp (Jan 12, 2009)

Hope this helps.


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## Timbo (Jan 12, 2009)

I agree totally with the others who recommend making and using the jig in the Jay Pickens tutorial.  After had been using pen mills for about a year without being fully satisfied with the results, I decided to try another method.  I searched the Library, found the Pickens turorial, made the jig, and have been happy ever since. If you follow the instructions carefully, making sure the mandrel is parallel to the table, and at a perfect right angle to the sanding disc you can't go wrong.  This of course assumes that your table and miter slot are also set correctly relative to the sanding surface.  Feel free to PM me if you have any questions. Good luck.


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## GouletPens (Jan 12, 2009)

KenV said:


> P.S. The Jay Pickens article from 2005 is in the library at
> 
> http://content.penturners.org/articles/2005/blanksquaring.pdf
> 
> ...


 You can buy a similar device if you don't want to make it from PSI: http://www.pennstateind.com/store/PKSQUARE.html

Definitely cheaper to make one yourself, but it seems like the same concept....


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## MobilMan (Jan 12, 2009)

Keven, you'll never get it 'square' laying the blank on the table & against even a perfectly square miter.  Everything can be perfectly aligned but--is you're hole drilled perfectly in line with the outer edge of the blank.  More than likely not 'perfectly  That little jig Keith shows ya is the simpliest setup.  I still use a pen mill with no problems, but some mills can be a problem.  My first one left the tube longer than the blank.  I made a jig like Keiths but haven't glued paper to it.  Gonna use it after pen is completed to retrue the ends.  Using the sanding disc on your Delta will cause the brass tube to 'roll' toward the center from the direction of rotation.  Make sure you remove that burr.


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## its_virgil (Jan 12, 2009)

Make the jig as outlined by Jay. You'll be glad you did. It out performs the PSI jig for "squarness"...at least it did the two that I purchased and sent back. Squaring on the disk or belt sander is faster, easier, accurate, and produces better results than a pen mill, contrary to the reports of others. This question comes up often and I must go to bat for the disk sander and Jay' jig. 

You must be sure the table is perpendicular to the disk; that the mandrel is perpendicular to the disk and parallel to the table. Follow Jay's steps and you'll like the results.

I also like the idea mentioned about squaring on the lathe. I must give that a try. That little lathe jig will fit nicely in my tool bag when I turn or demo away from my shop. Thanks for sharing that.

Do a good turn daily!
Don




GouletPens said:


> You can buy a similar device if you don't want to make it from PSI: http://www.pennstateind.com/store/PKSQUARE.html
> 
> Definitely cheaper to make one yourself, but it seems like the same concept....


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## hilltopper46 (Jan 12, 2009)

VisExp said:


> Hope this helps.
> 
> (Pictures removed for sanity)



Does it ever!! Thank you for posting this!!  Sooner or later, hopefully sooner, I will use this.


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## wolftat (Jan 12, 2009)

If you turn a pen mill head around and put a piece of sandpaper on it and use it that way, it takes off the little wave that some pen mills leave.


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## Chasper (Jan 12, 2009)

I trim any barrels larger than slim on a 6 inch disc sander.  I don't use a center insert,  squaring platform, miter gauge or any other machanics, just a disk sander and eyeballs.  When I think I have an end square I insert a bushing to see if there is gap between the bushing and the blank.  If there is I take off a little more off the high side until it is square.  I can't say they are absolutely perfect but they are better than with a squaring mill, it is quicker, adhesive clean out is easier, and they never split out as they occasionally do with a mill.


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## Russianwolf (Jan 12, 2009)

wizical said:


> I dont think the table flexes, I will check it next time i use it.
> 
> what is your method on the lathe, you got my attention




The way I do it is a process, and I do it in batches so the time per blank is only a couple minutes. I did 11 blanks in 30 minutes yesterday.

1)drill blank and glue in tube 
2)mount between centers and turn round
3)mount in scroll chuck and use a skew to trim ends

When I put it in the scroll chuck it's easy to tell if everything is right. When you turn the lathe on, you should see the tube spinning nicely, if it's blurred then the blank isn't mounted correctly.

I usually dish the ends of the blank when I do this, that way the fit of the hardware is bang on. As mentioned, I haven't lost a blank since doing I started doing it this way. I was never satisfied with using the sleeves on the pen mill as I always seemed to have a little slop.


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## wolftat (Jan 12, 2009)

Chasper said:


> I trim any barrels larger than slim on a 6 inch disc sander. I don't use a center insert, squaring platform, miter gauge or any other machanics, just a disk sander and eyeballs. When I think I have an end square I insert a bushing to see if there is gap between the bushing and the blank. If there is I take off a little more off the high side until it is square. I can't say they are absolutely perfect but they are better than with a squaring mill, it is quicker, adhesive clean out is easier, and they never split out as they occasionally do with a mill.


 I tried that a long time ago and found that noone wanted to buy my 1.5" long pens....LOL  I guess you just have to have a good eye for that method.:wink:


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## WoodWrite (Jan 12, 2009)

Keven, I also use a Delta 8 inch disk & belt sander to square the ends of my pens. You have to make sure that both the table is at 90 and the miter is at 90. I use light to med pressure aginst the disk, never down or to the side. I press on the back of the blank aginst the disk, and slide it along. I turn the blank 90 degrees on each pass so that if anything is the slightest bit off, turning the blank on each pass will minimize it.
I also use the belt sander to take off alot of the wood and round the blank, especally on the very dense woods. I hope that this will save me so sharpening, but do not know if this does any good or not. Any opinions on this from anyone?


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## jtrusselle (Jan 12, 2009)

My Dad, a penturner for over a decade, made me a bench sanding jig.  Never had a problem getting square and makes for quick barrel trimming.  See picts via links below.  First time adding links to a message so hopefully this works...

http://www.penturners.org/photos/index.php?n=7354
http://www.penturners.org/photos/index.php?n=7355


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## bruce119 (Jan 13, 2009)

I figure I show how I do it. Simple cheap and accurate. Get a Harbor Freight transfer punch set a must for the pen turn there great for disassembling a pen also. Get a piece of wood corner molding. Find the rite size punch slip the blank on the punch put it in the corner molding that keeps the blank from touching the table top. Then you got a perfect square end. Of course your table and miter must be square to the disk. I think this is a much better way to square the ends especially with blanks that are subject to tear with a pen mill such as snake skin, soft wood, worthless wood castings and of course the circuit board blank.


Here are a few pictures I hope this helps


 


Bruce


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## wizical (Jan 13, 2009)

thanks everyone for all of your help....im going to try a few things tonight and see what happens


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## wizical (Jan 13, 2009)

i had an idea of my own, let see what you think

1) My plan was going to place the Blank in a Scroll Chuck.  

2) Then in the tailstock, put in a Drill Chuck with a sanding pad, 

3) Then bring up the sanding pad to the spinning blank in the Scroll Chuck. 

I think this would work, what do you all think.  I have never tried it before, seems like a fun experiment actually???


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## jimbob91577 (Jan 13, 2009)

wizical said:


> i had an idea of my own, let see what you think
> 
> 1) My plan was going to place the Blank in a Scroll Chuck.
> 
> ...


 

Not to sound condesending, but wouldn't you wear a nice little circle in the sanding pad?  I've often thought mounting a disk in the lathe chuck and creating a table that fits over the ways of the lathe bed would be another alternative to not having a disk sander.


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## jttheclockman (Jan 13, 2009)

You know Bruce, I like your idea the best. It is simple and goof proof. I think next time HF has them on sle I am getting a second set. Thanks for the tip.


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## schaf (Jan 13, 2009)

Here is my method.
Posted on a Aussie forum a while back.
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=54158

Terry


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## rick_lindsey (Jan 13, 2009)

Hey Schaf, would you mind posting those pictures here?  I can't see them on the other forum .

-Rick


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## Russianwolf (Jan 13, 2009)

wizical said:


> i had an idea of my own, let see what you think
> 
> 1) My plan was going to place the Blank in a Scroll Chuck.
> 
> ...



unless you've turned the blank round and concentric to the tubes, mounting in the chuck won't help. I've tried to use my own method with square blanks and it didn't work, I just couldn't get it lined up right in the chuck. turned round between centers, and no problem.

Wearing the hole in the disk mentioned above might be another problem. 

I'll take pics when I do some blanks tonight/tomorrow (would all be tonight if I didn't have to wait for the glue to cure)


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## wizical (Jan 14, 2009)

Russianwolf said:


> Your table may be set to 90 degrees, but when the sander is putting downward force on the piece, is the table staying at 90 or is it flexing?
> 
> I've had problems with sanders and the mills, I've since switched to a method I came up with to do it on the lathe. I've had 0 problems since switching.



I checked the table and it wasnt 90 degree's to the disk, i reset it using an right angle and it works perfectly,  im just more cautious now what i am doing.  Thank for all of the advice


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## schaf (Jan 14, 2009)

Rick, I deleted those photos a long time ago. Will have to retake them for you. Or just enter our forum  and look through my posts. Same name on both forums.
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/

Regards


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## GouletPens (Jan 14, 2009)

WoodWrite said:


> I also use the belt sander to take off alot of the wood and round the blank, especally on the very dense woods. I hope that this will save me so sharpening, but do not know if this does any good or not. Any opinions on this from anyone?


When I first started out I used to do this, b/c I wasn't that fast at turning. Once I got better tools, got better at sharpening those tools, and learned the most effective way to remove materials with each cutting edge, it became much faster and easier to just start turning without knocking down the edges on the sander. The best way to keep sharp tools is use a small diamond hone to keep the edge crisp at all times. The grinder will eat your tools quick if you go that aggressive every time (even using a slow speed one). Using the hone saves me time and certainly saves me a lot of HSS!


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## MobilMan (Jan 14, 2009)

Attached Thumbnails..Hope this works


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## MobilMan (Jan 14, 2009)

Sorry--didn't work


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## tool-man (Jan 15, 2009)

This is the latest version of a sanding mill I made to be used after the pen barrel is turned and finished.  The platen is a washer epoxied to a backup collar held to the shaft by a set screw.








I now find it works just fine held in my hand (second picture) with my fingers lightly holding the disc of sandpaper.  The sandpaper is not glued to the sanding platen of the sanding mill.  No need.


Here you see a pen barrel already turned (you have to imagine that it is finished also ) and ready to have the end sanded square.  Again, I do not use a drill chuck as pictured; I just hold the mill and the piece of sandpaper with my left hand and twist the pen/tube with my right hand.






Even if there is a good glob of CA on the end of the pen I find it sands right down in just a few seconds by twisting the barrel by hand. Since the sandpaper is not glued down it is very simple to change to another grit if needed.

This concept is almost identical in principle to that shown by VisExp above - mine is metal and his is wood. My mandrel shaft is a snug fit to a 7mm tube.  Sleeves just like his are used for larger diameter tubes.  Another member is selling an all metal one piece sanding mill turned from a single piece of steel.  Check that out over in the classified forum.

Since the sanding mandrel shaft and the platen are an accurate 90 degrees to each other (accuracy of the drilled hole) there is no need for any alignment adjustment as with some jigs - the pen barrel will always be at 90 deg. to the platen, and thus to the sandpaper.

I am working on a similar sanding mill design incorporating the 6 blade cutter head just received from the group buy.  I am hoping to eliminate the need for adapter sleeves.


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## Firefyter-emt (Jan 15, 2009)

Hmmm...  That looks familiar there.


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## wizical (Jan 15, 2009)

Firefyter-emt said:


> Hmmm...  That looks familiar there.



how do u make that?


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## bruce119 (Jan 15, 2009)

I have a sanding mill and I like it for final touch ups it's great. But for heavy sanding of full size blanks it clogs quickly and I just can't find an easier method then my harbor freight punch on the disk sander.

Again *Firefyter-emt *makes a great tool I have one and use it regularly good for final touch ups.

Bruce
.
.


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## tool-man (Jan 16, 2009)

bruce119 said:


> I have a sanding mill and I like it for final touch ups it's great. But for heavy sanding of full size blanks it clogs quickly and I just can't find an easier method then my harbor freight punch on the disk sander.Bruce..



For heavier trimming of barrel blanks you might consider a barrel trimmer such as this one from Rockler
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=18001
Lots of folks on the net sell them.

A group buy here (now closed) offered a great deal on a barrel trimmer also.


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## bruce119 (Jan 16, 2009)

Noland sells a carbide tipped trimmer a fantastic tool. Here is a link to his add it is now closed but he still has them BUT at the moment he is recovering from a surgery.
http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=35484&highlight=carbide+mill

Still trimmers just don't work in some instances as I mentioned punky woods and things that are prone to tear out. I still like the table top sanding disk with the Harbor Freight punch set.


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