# It takes all kinds (you're gonna flame me!) long



## RAdams (Mar 28, 2010)

I started to type out a REALLY long message, but have decided not to. Instead, I have decided on this condensed version.


 I see this website kinda like the school playground. There are lots of people running around all over the place, gathering in their little corners of the site. 

Just like the playground, we have our resident weirdo (ME:biggrin, Our resident funny people, (Charlie, ME AGAIN, Ed, etc. etc.) Our showoffs:biggrin:, (Charlie and Alton, Mr. Scrollsaw, and of course the Cat and the Rat)

Just like the playground, we have bullies. Only our bullies are a bit different. Straight up bullying would never float so we have new age bullying. On the playground, at the beginning of the school year, nobody knows the bully is a bully, so you give him the kickball when he asks for it. After a few times of him kicking it to the convent across the street, you quit giving him the ball. Anyone else, you would gladly give the ball to because you know they will give it back, or give it to the next person in line. 

Well I consider my penmaking supplies and materials as the ball. I would gladly give the ball to anyone on this site that is willing to "Pass it forward". In fact, I have tried on several occasions to do just that. 

Now i am forced to feel like a worm. Someone recently tried to "bully" me. I feel like i have an obligation to the members of this site to share all that i can, including materials, and financials, but i cannot give my scarily small pile of shop stuff to someone that is going to kick my ball to the convent (Don't do it! I didn't do it, so neither can you! I know i left the door WIDE OPEN... Just keep reading and forget the killer joke you were gonna post, it will only get BOTH of us in trouble!:biggrin. 

More than an obligation to just give my materials to whoever asks, I feel i have an obligation to friends (both present and future) from this site to warn them of possible treachery, which is why i am risking getting my pants flamed off for posting this. 

I will never tell anyone who the "bully" is, so asking would be useless. I will offer a simple warning. do some research before you agree to send someone something just because they ask. Make sure that person is on the team! That way you don't have to go ask the Nuns for your kick ball! 

Now where did i put those fireproof boxers.......


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## Mack C. (Mar 28, 2010)

Hi Ron (Scary Looking Guy):biggrin:; I definitely will not flame you and I don't think anyone else should as well.

You have given great "Food for Thought"!


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## snowman56 (Mar 28, 2010)

Ron
You do look a little scary for the playground.But if you get bullied i think it will be becuse you let it happen.I have had something sort of like what you described happen.You just pull the plug.I went along with it until isaw what i needed to see.


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## RAdams (Mar 28, 2010)

Actually Robert, I backed out just in time. I got lucky... It didn't cost me anything but some time. I just know for a fact that there are people on here that would give their last pen blank to help someone out, sight unseen. I don't want those people to get taken as I am afraid a number of people have been. I am not trying to encourage people to be stingy, just smart. 



P.S. Why does everyone think i am scary looking? My wife strongly disagrees! I am gonna go find a picture of a cute little kitten to use as my avatar!:biggrin:


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## skiprat (Mar 28, 2010)

Ron, I'm very impressed by your post!!!  I'm afraid I was 'reading the book by the cover' and I apologise:redface: ( But you really are still a scruffy bugger!!:tongue

I'm sure I'm not the only one that has had PM's saying something like....
'I don't have this because.........and therefore you should send me stuff. Here's my address' 

I even suspect that there is one particular culprit that practices this Emotional Bullying. I did send stuff the first time but fairly recently, I got another PM where it was obvious that he had forgotten that he'd already got stuff from me. 

I'm all for charity and very happy to assist in a good cause, but if he does it again, then I'm going to name and shame. 
There are many people here that will glady give away their last kit or blank or even expensive tools and money and it is really unfair for them to be taken advantage of. 

I know that we probably should report them to the mods, but this is the type of thing you feel you need to keep quiet about until it's too late. :wink:


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## chriselle (Mar 28, 2010)

Ron, your avatar kinda looks like the picture was taken as you were hanging upside down while in a straight jacket....:biggrin:  Not scary....just a little freaky, dude!!:tongue:


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## snowman56 (Mar 28, 2010)

Ron
Your wife and mom has to tell you that they think you look great.When you get ready to take the pic. of that kitten you might get wify to snap the shot.lol


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## RAdams (Mar 28, 2010)

skiprat said:


> Ron, I'm very impressed by your post!!! I'm afraid I was 'reading the book by the cover' and I apologise:redface: ( But you really are still a scruffy bugger!!:tongue
> 
> I'm sure I'm not the only one that has had PM's saying something like....
> 'I don't have this because.........and therefore you should send me stuff. Here's my address'
> ...


 



Thank you Skip! I am not trying to make anyone feel bad. I just want people to "earn their keep" as it were. I would never turn anyone in to the mods unless they blatantly deserved it. In this case, I just want to warn my friends that there are some shady characters even here at IAP. 

I agree whole heartedly about the charity thing, But to me, here is different. I already have a tremendous debt to this site and it's members. So when someone has a need, I go out of my way to help with that need. Not out of charity, but the need to repay what has been given to me. 

The bad part is I really feel like scum even bringing it up. I feel like i am letting down the kind people that help me. Reading your post has helped ease the pain a bit!  


chriselle... How is my new avatar? A bit more friendly??:biggrin:


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## RAdams (Mar 28, 2010)

snowman56 said:


> Ron
> Your wife and mom has to tell you that they think you look great.When you get ready to take the pic. of that kitten you might get wify to snap the shot.lol


 



Have you ever laughed so hard you spewed milk out your nose all over the keyboard??? I just did...:biggrin: 

That was HILARIOUS! I shoulda named YOU as the funny kid!!


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## snowman56 (Mar 28, 2010)

Ron
Payback is hell i am now cleaning the coffee off my keyboard


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## johnnycnc (Mar 28, 2010)

Ron,
Maybe my coffee has not kicked in..I'm a little confused. I realize you are trying to skirt
around the fringes of whatever happened but I am only making 90% of the connection.
If it is a case of someone sponging and begging, getting free stuff, playing on your sympathy, you send free stuff, and then they want something more..I get it because I have been there recently also.And I felt bad too when I had to shut it off, but it became very clear what was being played.
Could you give a confirmation on this, yea or nay.. pm me if need be, I'm quite curious.


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## capcrnch (Mar 28, 2010)

RAdams said:


> I started to type out a REALLY long message, but have decided not to. Instead, I have decided on this condensed version.
> 
> 
> I see this website kinda like the school playground. There are lots of people running around all over the place, gathering in their little corners of the site.
> ...



So, what i'm reading is that a bully kicked all your pen stuff across the street? 

:biggrin: :biggrin:


I understand what you're saying.
As a noob to the site, but not the internet or message boards, I really like the friendly environment that's here. There's a lot of people that believe in "paying it forward" and that's very cool. Trusting as well.
I was buying things from sellers here within a week and the sellers I purchased from, all went a little further than needed. Nice to see and for sure, nice as a buyer!

The internet can be a real shady place and when you have a blueprint for disaster like a message board, it's comforting to find one like IAP. Where, for the most part, you have a "family" that is good people.


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## ttcanuck (Mar 28, 2010)

Well said!

I'm a relative newbie to this art so I can understand the daunting task of building up ones supplies.

But what those 'bullies' fail to truly comprehend is what I get every day has far, far more value than 'stuff' you get someone to send you - wisdom.  The knowledge that is paid forward by those of you in this forum is worth 100 times more than any supplies.  My guess is that their level of mental capacity is about as shallow as their ethics.

Thank you.


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## altaciii (Mar 28, 2010)

Ron, What you posted is seriously a very good post.  I have had people ask for certain things by pm and have obliged on most occasions buy in more than one case the well has gone dry.  I'm glad you said what some of us want to say and I like the way you said it.  By the way, keep the new avatar, it's not as scary.


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## JakeAB (Mar 28, 2010)

RAdams said:


> How is my new avatar? A bit more friendly??:biggrin:



That's a scary looking kitten, Ron!

While I've been more of a lurker than a contributor on this forum, I have always been impressed and not a little amazed at the amount of advice, support and encouragement that is freely offered by the people here.

I too am a firm believer in "paying it forward," in spite of the fact that I've been burned by bullies (more than once, I'm sorry to say). The important thing is not to let these incidents make you so cautious about helping that you miss real opportunities to make a difference for someone who really needs it. I'd much rather lose a few kick balls than become too leery and cynical to help those who can benefit from what I know or what I have.

You'll get no flame from me (or, I suspect, from anyone else on this forum). So put away your fireproof boxers. They chafe something fierce, anyway.


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## ROOKIETURNER (Mar 28, 2010)

I agree, the people here are great. I hope that the bullies don't ruin the reputation of the great people and attitude and tone here.

I joined several weeks ago, and have been on the receiving end of many generous members. I never could have imagined the level of heartfelt and thought-out gifts.

I pray for the day that I can pay it forward. There are 5 guys on here that have been amazingly generous to me, and one close personal friend who has held my hand every step of the way. I am very blessed to have found him and this site.

Thank you everyone!!! Thank you IAP!!!

God Bless,

Rob


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## workinforwood (Mar 28, 2010)

Personally, I have am clueless as to whatever happened.  I haven't had anyone bully me or beg me for stuff.  Of course..I would ignore anyone that asked me for help just because they say they are down on my luck.  It would be rude to come begging to me for stuff.  I'd say go dig yourself out of your hole, get motivated and work harder.  If ya'll say people have done this, I believe it, although I personally don't know how someone can have the b....s to do it.  I believe in capitalism.  I give when I want, to who I want and for whatever reason I want.  I can see the hatemail coming to me soon!  But I don't really care:biggrin:..I'm entitled to have my own opinion and do things however I see fit.

On the side notes..I don't think you look scarey at all Ron.  You do look like you might own a 3 foot bong, but so what if you do.  You look to me like you smile a lot and you have friendly eyes.  I'd shoot the s..t with you if I ran across you on the street and didn't know you.


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## jeff (Mar 28, 2010)

I really wish that when people run into situations like this that they'd let me know. It does no good to write cryptic threads like this. 99% of members (including ME!) don't know what or who you're talking about. New members especially don't know, and they're the ones who could use the warning.

You might think of this as a school playground, and that's a decent analogy, but I think if it as my living room. If I had guests in my home showing dishonest, disreputable, or bullying (physical or emotional) behavior, they'd be given one chance to change their ways, then they'd be asked to leave (or get carried away on a stretcher, depending on their response and on my mood :biggrin

I can solve problems like this here in two minutes, but I have to KNOW ABOUT THEM! Please, for the sake of our community and your fellow members, let me know about bad situations. I'll handle them in complete confidence. A quick PM letting me know about a bad apple could save someone else a world of hurt and potentially a lot of money.


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## jskeen (Mar 28, 2010)

Well, I'm mad now.  Nobody has ever tried to rip me off or take advantage of me at all on here.  What, My stuff not cool enough to try to scam me out of or something?  Only the stars on here get bogus requests or what?  I'll just keep my stuff then, so there.  See if I invite people over or anything  

Really, I have found this to be one of the few really functional examples of a self policing community on the internet.  There have been some incidents, and some frictions in the past, perhaps a pen, or a group project went amiss, but I do believe that those responsible are not really around anymore, for the most part.  Credibility on this site is assumed up to a point, but pretty hard won after that, and people tend to be pretty protective of it.  That's an example of how it is supposed to work.  Only in a society where there is NO freedom are there no abuses, but neither are their any innovations, progress, or benefits.  I think we have hit a pretty good balance here over the years.


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## GaryMadore (Mar 28, 2010)

Ron,

I came across a kitten photo that I think suits you a tad better than the one you chose:







Or, here's another in avatar size:






... I mean, we wouldn't want anybody to think you're all cute 'n' cuddly, right? 

Cheers!

Gary


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## RAdams (Mar 28, 2010)

workinforwood said:


> On the side notes..I don't think you look scarey at all Ron. You do look like you might own a 3 foot bong, but so what if you do. You look to me like you smile a lot and you have friendly eyes. I'd shoot the s..t with you if I ran across you on the street and didn't know you.


 


Smile alot????


Friendly eyes?????


Jeff, Are you hitting on me? 


ROFL! That is funny stuff! I do smile alot, and laugh even more! Life is a game, And i am a WINNER!!!:biggrin:


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## KenV (Mar 28, 2010)

*I call them Gritches and Grinders*

Ron -- there are lot of people in the world who will take advantage of situations and good natured people.   Most of them never cross the lines enouth to become a problem to society.   Some are pan-handlers or all kinds who beg on the generosity of others at the expense of those who have great(er).  The brash approach sometimes works.  

There are a few percent in every group -- and they do leverage situations to personal advantage.

I have been asked to pirate copies of DVDs to make up for lack of resourcs.  I have given gear to people, who then sold it to someone else.   But by an large they are the exceptions and I expect to make bad judgements occasionally with generosity.  

As a police officer friend says -- there are 10-15% out there that you do not want to ever have to count on.....


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## JimB (Mar 28, 2010)

I was glad to see you make this post Ron. I've often wondered about some of the requests that people make on here for free stuff and I didn't realize people were PMing other members directly and asking for stuff. They sound more like internet predators than bullies to me. 

BTW, WOW, just combing your hair and you look so different in your new avatar. I never would have recongnized you.


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## robutacion (Mar 28, 2010)

Hi everyone,

I have been wondering if some of signs I've seen here of possible scams, where only in my mind or indeed a reality.  Is obvious that from what I read, that my gut feeling was right and some other members where targeted.  It can be just me but, some of these unscrupulous culprits where a little to obvious for my taste, reason why I didn't get involved nor anyone did try the trick on me.

Nevertheless, it opens a very wide double sided window, on one side you have those that have been using/abusing the friendliness and generosity of its members by simply taking advantage, and sliding the window to the other side, you have those that are genuinely in need...!

How do you differentiate...??? most times is nearly impossible, particularly those "pretenders" that are very smart and do their home work.  There is simply an assumption and or decision that each individual has to make, depending mostly from the level and or experience with identical/similar situations of this nature one have had in life.

There are certainly "alarm bells", unfortunately only a few are capable to recognize them but, make no mistake, anyone being burnt in a fire, will always be skeptical and doubtful when someone asks them for a match...!
Unfortunately, being unable to be certain how that match is going to be used, one can most certainly make the wrong assumptions and therefore, make the wrong decision and when that happen, believe me, it hurts deeply..!  

On the other hand, I totally agree with Jeff on his sentiment that, unless those affected are willing (by their own rightful decision), name and shame these culprits, will be very difficult to rectify the situation and prevent future attempts.

The only ones that will lose/suffer greatly, while these "smart fulls" are still around, are those there are and or will be genuinely in need of help...! To them I would say, hang in there, don't feel shame in asking for help but please be, a little more cautious when you do...!

For those that hold the key, there is, hold the information, I would encourage them to come forwards for everyone's sake and get those "rats" off their hiding places...!  Going "around" the problem is no solution, and "everyone" here deserves more than that...!

Thinking about those guilty of such disrespect, make my gut turn, I which that I had the hard evidence but, these fellows made the right decision of not knocking on my door, I wish they did...!

These are my thoughts...!

Cheers
George


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## skiprat (Mar 28, 2010)

Perhaps we could have a 'In Need' forum? That way when we get these PM's we could refer them to that forum without actually refusing them. 
It wouldn't be so bad if these people ( I personally only know of one ) actually contributed to the site in some way. They rarely post anything at all. Even if they just periodically gave us a heads-up on some good deal that a vendor might be having, that would be enough to 'Pay it forward' or whatever the phrase is that you guys use.

Jeff, just like the schoolyard analogy, nobody wants to run to the headmaster. I know that it may cost someone getting taken advantage of, but if they learn this valuable life lesson with just a kit or two, then they got off cheaply.


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## GaryMGg (Mar 28, 2010)

jskeen said:


> Well, I'm mad now. Nobody has ever tried to rip me off or take advantage of me at all on here. What, My stuff not cool enough to try to scam me out of or something?...


 
I don't care who y'are; that right there's funny.
:biggrin:


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## GaryMGg (Mar 28, 2010)

Jeff Powell and I have similar philosophies based on what he wrote above.
Having been a recipient of several requests for `Free stuff' I'll say that I never found it to be bullying.
I thought it a little brazen but very direct -- no sugar coating, no hint at ever paying it forward, yet also no entitlement.
Just a simple, (paraphrasing) 'I need this, if you'll send it to me here's my address.'
I find it less intrusive than a panhandler asking for spare change and easier to respond affirmatively or not as I choose.

Just my $.02
G


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## Padre (Mar 28, 2010)

I am confused.  First, that kitten HAS to go! :biggrin:  ACHOO!  Ron, I wouldn't have known it was you!!

I am a newbie here (in playground terms, I'd be the one with the fat head).  Just recently, I did a "Pay it Forward" thread.  I had a few others PM me and I sent out about 7 or 8 boxes of blanks.

Most of the folks I sent them to PM'd me again and thanked me.  But no one tried to get more or ask for extras.  So I am kinda' confused as to what is really going on.  If someone could PM me and let me know what to watch for, I'd really appreciate it.


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## NewLondon88 (Mar 28, 2010)

skiprat said:


> Jeff, just like the schoolyard analogy, nobody wants to run to the headmaster. I know that it may cost someone getting taken advantage of, but if they learn this valuable life lesson with just a kit or two, then they got off cheaply.



I think part of the 'reporting' issue is that by our nature, we don't want
to believe that this is what just happened. We hope that we're reading
it incorrectly, we hope that perhaps the person just isn't wording their
requests quite right .. we believe that we might just be misinterpreting
the whole thing.

But when you're staring at the monitor and you suddenly yell
"OH NO YOU DIDN'T!!!"  then I think it's a pretty good sign that you
should drop Jeff a note.


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## Texatdurango (Mar 28, 2010)

JimB said:


> I was glad to see you make this post Ron. I've often wondered about some of the requests that people make on here for free stuff and* I didn't realize people were PMing other members directly and asking for stuff*. They sound more like internet predators than bullies to me....


 
Trust me... they do!  Last year I cut up a few mesquite logs into pen blanks and posted that they were free to anyone who *needed* them, including the postage.  Well, the first 100 or so flew out the door the first day or so and I told everyone that I was out.  That post was well over a year ago and still, I get a few messages a month asking for free blanks, some referring back to that old thread.  How did they find the old thread... probably searched for "Free"!  

No, some are not a bit bashful in asking for free stuff but they are bashful about posting on the forum since usually these are "_members_" who have no posts or just one or two.  

People do indeed join the forum for different reasons!


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## BRobbins629 (Mar 28, 2010)

Ron - I'm enjoying this thread but not your new avatar.  PLEASE go back to something scary.  Its just doesn't sound right.


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## woodchip (Mar 28, 2010)

RAdams said:


> ROFL! That is funny stuff! I do smile alot, and laugh even more! Life is a game, And i am a WINNER!!!:biggrin:



Ron you are indeed a "weiner" i mean winner lol. I just hate the fact that the few will ruin the chance for someone that could really use some stuff during hard times to miss out. Personally i think the culprits should be held accountable. I don't think i would even reply if someone pm'd me expecting things.


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## ROOKIETURNER (Mar 28, 2010)

BRobbins629 said:


> Ron - I'm enjoying this thread but not your new avatar. PLEASE go back to something scary. Its just doesn't sound right.


 
I second the motion. All in favor say Aye!


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## JimB (Mar 28, 2010)

ROOKIETURNER said:


> I second the motion. All in favor say Aye!


 
Aye:biggrin:


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## Padre (Mar 28, 2010)

Aye!


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## skiprat (Mar 28, 2010)

This one is more like it :biggrin:
You gotta admit that there is some similarity there:tongue:


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## JerrySambrook (Mar 28, 2010)

What the heck is that???????


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## ldb2000 (Mar 28, 2010)

Now THAT is Scary ....... in a cute and cuddly way?


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## skiprat (Mar 28, 2010)

JerrySambrook said:


> What the heck is that???????


 
That's exactly what I said when I saw Ron's previous avatar!!!:tongue:


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## bitshird (Mar 28, 2010)

I have never had any one PM me asking for stuff, but there have been several people post that sounded like they could use some help, and I have, also there was one person a few years back that played on his youthful age and economic background, I think a lot of us sent him thing to get going on, next thing is this kid is selling Jr. Statesman's and Gents at a local farmers market and still looking for handouts.
and there have been several charitable events for members that were in dire need, as well as some of us donating kits, blanks, tools, what ever.
This place is like my extended family, and I'll help as I can, but if some one sends me a PM asking for stuff, either I won't respond, or if I do they won't like me much any more.
and Skip, I would love to con you outa one of your pens, I'm so old and poor I can't afford ink cartridges for my fountain pens nor refills for my Roller balls and Ball points,  Could ya help a brother out????:biggrin:


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## RAdams (Mar 28, 2010)

While we are conning Skip out of pens........ I sure could use a Rat pen myself!!! 



I have recieved quite a few PM's about this topic. I am in the process of speaking to Jeff about it as well. I don't want to snitch on anyone, which is why i posted this instead of telling the Principal. 

The truely messed up part is that I think most of us know who I am talking about, and i think if it is that obvious, then my thoughts and feelings are right on target. 


I also want to add something to this little debate. 

I am unemployed. My wife is on disability. My household (of 4 adults) survives on $700 a month plus whatever i can sell from my shop, which isn't much. I wanted to share that info because some of us are poor and can still manage to make our shop work. No doubt i have enjoyed the generosity of our members.... In fact, I just got a PM from someone that is going to send me a video on using the skew. I remember posting asking about airfare trying to get my wife to Chicago for a funeral... One person was actually trying to give me money to help. 

No doubt if i needed help in some way, I would ask without hesitation. I think there is a big difference in giving someone a hand up, and giving someone a hand out. 

There are members here that i would absolutely go out of my way to help if they even hinted that they needed it. But to me, it is a give and take. I take knowledge from this site, so giving some supplies is a small price to pay for what i have learned, and the fun i have had. 


I just wanted to start this thread to give everyone something to think about and maybe some direction if they get the "I need" PM. Look into the persons threads. See if they are someone you think actually needs help, or someone trying to get a handout. Of course, your best judgement is about all you have to go on, but at least you can do some reading and have a little bit more insight. 



And on the topic of my avatar....... You people are IMPOSSIBLE to please!:biggrin: 

It's too scarey.....
It's too soft and cuddly...

I am darned if i do, and darned if i dont!
I am gonna go find a DOOZY now!!


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## mtgrizzly52 (Mar 28, 2010)

Ron, first of all, no flame here....humans will be humans and some of them just have a strange sense of how they interact with others. In every group, whether a forum, a club, or whatever, there will be a wide variety of individuals to have to deal with.

I don't think that the couple of "please help me out" requests I've responded to were scams, but I definitely have that thought in the back of my mind when I first read the requests. Simple thank you's are proof enough for me that I wasn't scammed, but then I believe in Pollyanna too! *grin*

The only thing that gets my dander up is being a part of a pen swap, make up in this case not one, but two different pens because I was told the first one never was received, and I'm still waiting for a return pen. I cannot believe the second pen was lost in the mail, especially since I got delivery confirmation. If you are going to enter into any of the various swaps, make sure you are going to reciprocate if you get something from your swap partner.

Ok, now I'm off my soapbox!

Rick (mtgrizzly52)


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## bobjackson (Mar 28, 2010)

I've donated some blanks and kits to new turners who've asked for help without batting an eye. I hope and assume they will use what I've sent them and gain a deeper appreciation for the hobby. Maybe once they've become established, they will pay it forward for someone else. If I get ripped off I've only lost a little. If the need is real, I've gained a lot.


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