# Pen Shapes



## jttheclockman (Oct 20, 2008)

Being new to pen turning I noticed different pen shapes. I see a few like the bushing to bushing straight line look and others like to add a bulge for a lack of a better word. Sierras are one of the ones I am refering to. My question is when doing the bulge look which I prefer more, do you have a certain method to get it exactly in the center and looking proportional on both ends.???  Please do not tell me it is an eye thing. Maybe after doing 100 or so it becomes an eye thing. But maybe there is a formula as to how fat to make the center to look decent????  Does this question even make sense, not sure how to ask it???


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## stevers (Oct 20, 2008)

Hi John.
I personally think the Sierra looks better straight. Maybe a "slight" bulge. Some call the bulge shape a "wasp" shape. Some of the two barrel pens can look OK with a wasp shape. Also some other contours like beads and ribs can look nice. 
When I need to center something on a blank, I will measure to find the center, then measure out and make reference marks of some sort. Getting the shape the way you want is a matter of personal taste and takes practice. Just like most phases of turning, practice, practice, practice. 
Just my 2cents.


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## leehljp (Oct 20, 2008)

I like a very slight bulge with the center point being about 55% to 60% away from the bottom. The angle of the top half is very close to the same as (and in line with) the upper pen cap angle.

Here is a link to one pen that I made about a couple of years ago that is exactly like mentioned above. It has been hard for me to duplicate this exact shape. Even with following Sierra's a bulge at the 50% (middle) or angle a half a degree off changes the appeal to me.

http://www.penturners.org/photos/images/940/1_Best_pen.jpg


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## chriselle (Oct 20, 2008)

OK, I'll be the bearer of the bad news.  Until it becomes "an eye thing" its just a "hit or miss thing"...:tongue:  The good news is that it shouldn't take you any more than 30 or 40 pens to get it down..:wink:

There is no formula unless you dig out the digital calipers and make up your own method.

Don't forget...your fingers will tell you a lot about the balance of your curve.


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## rherrell (Oct 20, 2008)

I turn a Sierra to .525" and then taper the ends. When I'm done the middle is about .515". (but not always)


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## Mack C. (Oct 20, 2008)

rherrell said:


> I turn a Sierra to .525" and then taper the ends. When I'm done the middle is about .515". (but not always)


I turn my Sierras to 9/16" (.5625) before sanding and then taper the ends.

I designed one by the Golden Mean formula once (1.6181). While I liked it for a while, it looked like a pregnant pup, and I eventually turned it down.

See my Avatar.


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## Rifleman1776 (Oct 20, 2008)

For whatever reason, beginners (myself included) tend to put a lot of bulgies, curves, coves and weird stuff on their pens. With time, and experience, they make their pens straighter and with fewer embellishments. As far as sales go, my experience is that straight, bushing to bushing turnings sell best. The key is quality in turning, finishing and selection of attractive woods.


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## avbill (Oct 20, 2008)

Go to the internet and look at the different professional pen manufactures  They are 98%  straight  or slightly curved.  I myself have made many of my sierra type pens have a vase shape to them and have received very well.  All my curves are understated. Just remember the pen's clip then you create your curve.  

another 2cents


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## JimB (Oct 20, 2008)

I've only made about 50 pens and most are B2B but a few have very small bulges. I've never tried to measure any of them to get them centered. I know you don't want to hear it but I eye-ball them to get them to a look I like. That doesn't mean the slight bulge is in the center though. I do the opposite of what several people said. After turning down to the general shape I then taper the ends. After tapering the ends I do the final shaping of the center. I run my fingers across it very lightly to feel for any unwanted bumps that I can't see. Then sand and finish.


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## Wildman (Oct 20, 2008)

Guess the easiest way to learn how to include a bulge is practice on any kind of scrap wood turning between centers. Use dimensions from  your favorite kit,  and 5/8“ or ¾“ blanks of scrap wood.  Not sure a formula a big help. 

Once your satisfied, drill holes in blank insert some bushings put on mandrel and see how it works for you.   

This approach will save on blanks, & extra tubes.


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## steve_mcloon (Oct 20, 2008)

You have asked an interesting question in that it made me reflect on how I shape pens. I have made at little over 200 pens, so I am still learning and evolving my style. I think I will quit pen making when I am no longer learning and evolving. I moved past the lumps and bumps stage after my first pen. With each new kit, I experiment with the shape going from straight bushing to bushing to a slightly expanded waist of varying sizes and centerings. I keep notes on the details. (You need a micrometer to do this.) For some kits, I have several 'perfect' shapes (perfect by my taste). For example, the lowly slim pen, I have three different shapes that I like and use. Generally, I turn the barrel down to the largest diameter (plus a little extra for sanding). I then shape each end from the high point. If the pen was to have a waist, I use to mark where I wanted the high point positioned with a pencil mark, but I don't seem to need to do that lately. I think the key things are to have a plan and to keep written notes on the plan and how you liked it. As well as the kit and shape, my notes include info on the wood and finish. Good luck experimenting and developing your style.
-Steve


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## ed4copies (Oct 20, 2008)

Rifleman1776 said:


> For whatever reason, beginners (myself included) tend to put a lot of bulgies, curves, coves and weird stuff on their pens. With time, and experience, they make their pens straighter and with fewer embellishments. As far as sales go, my experience is that straight, bushing to bushing turnings sell best. The key is quality in turning, finishing and selection of attractive woods.


 

Once in a while, Frank "Nails" one.

This is one of those times.

Ditto!!!!

(except he should hav added his "transparent woods"!!!!):biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:


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## jttheclockman (Oct 21, 2008)

I just want to thank all for responding and I will note all comments. I will try to experiment and see if i can find my taste. I just look at you pros and marvel at your creations and hope i reach that level. this is going to me my goal this winter season to develop a pen making skill. Wish me luck.


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## nava1uni (Oct 21, 2008)

I find that most of my shapes evolve as I turn the wood.  I stop often, observe what is happening, run my fingertips along the pen body and then proceed until the shape looks well and more importantly feels balanced.  A lot of the time the wood dictate the shape, especially when making bottle stoppers and other items.  I use a mic to ensure that the bushing ends are a good fit, but I have never used it to turn the pen body.  I might try it, but I am not sure.  For me there is something about allowing the wood dictate shape.  Might sound odd, but I really think that the wood  or other material does have a lot of influence for me.


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## jcollazo (Oct 21, 2008)

Following up with what Cindy said... What happens at the bushings is workmanship. What happens in between them is art!


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## Rudy Vey (Oct 21, 2008)

All depends also a bit on the pen type. For example a Flattop style American looks for me horrible when it has even the slightest of curves or bulges. This is a typical b2b pen. Initially on Euros, I also tried the "pregnant" or scallion form, and also beads, coves, you name it on slimlines. They don't sell, at least not for me.The Sierra is a very fine example for a pen that looks good b2b or with a very, very light bulge or curving - just a bit, too much looks not good at all. Have you ever studied the pens made and offered by the famous companies? You will see mostly straight or very little bulged pens.


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## RussFairfield (Oct 21, 2008)

There is an optical illusion working with columns, and the same thing happens with a pen. A straight pen will appear to be smaller in the center, and a small bulge will make it appear to be straight. Putting a small swell in the pen barrel , no more than 1/64" is all that is needed. Having the swell 2/5 from the bottom is what I remember as the location for Grecian columns, and that works for pens as well. Try it. I think you will see a difference.


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## chriselle (Oct 21, 2008)

RussFairfield said:


> There is an optical illusion working with columns, and the same thing happens with a pen. A straight pen will appear to be smaller in the center, and a small bulge will make it appear to be straight. Putting a small swell in the pen barrel , no more than 1/64" is all that is needed. Having the swell 2/5 from the bottom is what I remember as the location for Grecian columns, and that works for pens as well. Try it. I think you will see a difference.



+1  I agree.


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## marcruby (Oct 21, 2008)

I use only a few embellishments these days.  I like a pen with a slightly curved line but the bulges move around a bit depending on the hand that will hold it.  Some pens, like the lotus, do work well with straight lines.  I do dislike 'fat' pens intensely.  I hate to admit it, but I turn by eye and feel.

Marc


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## mick (Oct 21, 2008)

RussFairfield said:


> There is an optical illusion working with columns, and the same thing happens with a pen. A straight pen will appear to be smaller in the center, and a small bulge will make it appear to be straight. Putting a small swell in the pen barrel , no more than 1/64" is all that is needed. Having the swell 2/5 from the bottom is what I remember as the location for Grecian columns, and that works for pens as well. Try it. I think you will see a difference.


 
Russ you never cease to amaze me! I've often wondered why when I "think my b2b barrels are straight I'll use the the calipers and find that it's larger in the center. Eyeballin' just don't make it in some circumstances!


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## Zirnike (Oct 22, 2008)

Keep in mind your customer, too.  I've turned a few pens with shapes that are different in order to match up with people.  For example, my mechanical pencil (which I made by taking a woodcraft ultra cigar and substituting the mechanics with the premier pencil) has a large bulge on the tip.  This is because my hands are huge.  I designed another modified slimline with a large tip, and a larger 'groove' for the fingers, and a largish ring on the tail end.  It's designed for people with grip problems, like arthritis, carpel tunnel, etc.

And don't get me started on pens for lefties...


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## OKLAHOMAN (Oct 23, 2008)

He's right!


ed4copies said:


> Once in a while, Frank "Nails" one.
> 
> This is one of those times.
> 
> ...


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## leehljp (Oct 23, 2008)

While this has probably run it course, I will add something else about shape - It is pretty much a combination of several responses and individual preferences!

HOWEVER, there are some shapes that just don't go well and some that do (for the majority of people). In making another Elegant Sierra like the 30 pieces of silver for LOML, the new pen was about a half a degree off (fatter) and we both could tell. I removed .5 mm at the center line and changed the angle to both ends to adjust for that - and the "appeal" changed considerably. Angular adjustments by half a degree, the degree or radius of a curve over the body by a minute' amount makes the difference in a pen with good balance and appeal versus just a good looking pen.  

Shape does matter. It is not just a "personal choice" most of the time, although people will say that it is. There are some overall parameters that make a pen more noticeable. These parameters are not huge shape changes but as said earlier, minute' angles and radii added in at the proper places - IMO.


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