# Why I switched to epoxy



## MPVic (Oct 5, 2019)

As soon as you look at the photo, you will know EXACTLY why I, and probably countless others, switched from CA to epoxy for gluing tubes.  This particular blank is Cocobolo & was glued up a looooong time ago, before I gained some wisdom.  But I found it gathering dust & wanted to give it a try.  Hope some of our new members can learn from my experience ......... it's certainly how we learn from one another.


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## leehljp (Oct 5, 2019)

Thanks for the post and picts. I use either epoxy or polyurethane (Gorilla) glue. - Epoxy about 80% of the time, and polyurethane about 20%.

For very delicate blanks, I will use the poly and let them set overnight. Epoxy holds better than CA in situations as you posted. But the expanding polyurethane GRABS and sticks! Takes longer and it can push the tube out if one is not careful.


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## Woodchipper (Oct 5, 2019)

IF, and a big IF, I switch, I would go with the Gorilla glue as it expands to fill in the gaps.
Like Hank's approach of setting overnight. Sometimes we gete in a rush. Quality can't be rushed.


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## wolf creek knives (Oct 5, 2019)

I've used the System 3 epoxy for years and never had a problem, plus I can dye it different colors.  I do wait overnight before turning but it's always worked great.  Other than pin's on knives, the epoxy is the only other product that I use to attach the scales.  And, a quart of part A and a pint of part B will last for years and even freezing won't ruin it.


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## jttheclockman (Oct 5, 2019)

wolf creek knives said:


> I've used the System 3 epoxy for years and never had a problem, plus I can dye it different colors.  I do wait overnight before turning but it's always worked great.  Other than pin's on knives, the epoxy is the only other product that I use to attach the scales.  And, a quart of part A and a pint of part B will last for years and even freezing won't ruin it.



I second this 1000% forget the expanding gorilla glues not for me. Too messy. Never ever had a failure and that includes segmented blanks. I too now dye the epoxy at times.


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## Chippa (Oct 5, 2019)

I’ll be that guy and say that I have never had an issue after switching to star-bonds keg-500 flexible ca.


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## bsshog40 (Oct 5, 2019)

I have always used thick CA. Never had a problem. Just got done with a set of cocobolo darts that I glued the tubes in with thick CA. No problems.


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## ramaroodle (Oct 5, 2019)

leehljp said:


> Thanks for the post and picts. I use either epoxy or polyurethane (Gorilla) glue. - Epoxy about 80% of the time, and polyurethane about 20%.
> 
> For very delicate blanks, I will use the poly and let them set overnight. Epoxy holds better than CA in situations as you posted. But the expanding polyurethane GRABS and sticks! Takes longer and it can push the tube out if one is not careful.



+1 That about sums it up!  CA just has no sheer strength plus when you look at those separated blanks there usually is very little glue in there. Notice how in the pics there is no glue on the blank but the glue stuck to the tube?  Epoxy and GG don't have that issue especially on oily woods like cocobolo.  GG is activated by water so I always use a wet Q-tip on the inside of the blank.



bsshog40 said:


> I have always used thick CA. Never had a problem. Just got done with a set of cocobolo darts that I glued the tubes in with thick CA. No problems.



True but I have found that on the more delicate blanks like spalted or burled wood even thick CA can let me down.

Also, I rarely turn the blanks on the same day I glue them up. I've had blanks come apart after 2 hrs of thick CA and found the CA in the middle of the blank is still wet. I now do a batch of blanks at night and let them dry until I get home from work the next day or at the very least, overnight.

YMMV.


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## bsshog40 (Oct 5, 2019)

ramaroodle said:


> +1 That about sums it up!  CA just has no sheer strength plus when you look at those separated blanks there usually is very little glue in there. Notice how in the pics there is no glue on the blank but the glue stuck to the tube?  Epoxy and GG don't have that issue especially on oily woods like cocobolo.  GG is activated by water so I always use a wet Q-tip on the inside of the blank.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yea, I always let my glued blanks sit overnite or even longer. I sometimes do them during the week if I want to turn something over the wknd. I usually have no reason to turn them within a couple hours.


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## BEW-NZ (Oct 5, 2019)

I have been using CA glue for many years, 10years + and now have changed over to Epoxy Glue much
better .


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## magpens (Oct 5, 2019)

I have always used 5-minute epoxy.

And I sometimes turn within an hour of gluing.

Never had a problem. . But I use a metal-working lathe and take very light cuts. . It's well worth the extra time involved.


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## nebens (Oct 5, 2019)

John T, what do you use to tint your epoxy and does this usually eliminate the need to reverse paint the blank? Ernie


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## jttheclockman (Oct 5, 2019)

nebens said:


> John T, what do you use to tint your epoxy and does this usually eliminate the need to reverse paint the blank? Ernie


I use the dyes from System3 designed for their epoxies. 
https://www.systemthree.com/collections/fillers-foam-and-pigments/products/epoxy-paste-pigment

Absolutely not on the eliminating need to reverse paint the blank Forget painting tubes. waste of time. Paint the blank on those transparent blanks. I will use tinted epoxy for a couple reasons. One is if the blank gets scratched then the epoxy is the next layer you will see through the blank. You are not scratching paint off epoxy. Stop and think what a blank is and what happens when it is transparent. When you turn it down to pen size the first layer you see is the underside of the blank. The next layer is the adhesive you used, and finally the tube used. The use of belt and suspenders is fine but the use of belt, suspenders and safety pins is over kill.  

The next reason I tint epoxy is when making segmented blanks. I will match colors usually white or black or red with the color of materials used. This is sort of a fill in case there is any gaps in the segmenting. I will give you an example. The pen I shown here is black acrylic and aluminum knot. I glued the aluminum in with black tinted epoxy and you probably can see the edges of the metal have the hint of the black epoxy. It works well.


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## nebens (Oct 5, 2019)

Thanks JT. I looked at my epoxy and realized it's a System 3 epoxy. Will get some tints. Have been through your albums and greatly admire your work.


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## jttheclockman (Oct 5, 2019)

nebens said:


> Thanks JT. I looked at my epoxy and realized it's a System 3 epoxy. Will get some tints. Have been through your albums and greatly admire your work.


Thanks. Their epoxies is what I have used for years and have not had any failures and I use them for many things.


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## Wayne (Oct 6, 2019)

I agree CA has always been questionable. When I use it I always use thick formula or epoxies.

Next problem, oily woods or wood that moves even after drilling.

Notorious for cracking after drilling and gluing immediately are woods like Snakewood, Pink Ivory, Ebony among others.

It's not only the glue but it's the movement of the wood. I've found on those mentioned above, I will always drill them carefully and let them sit for a week.

Slide the drill in, doesn't? Then redrill, sit another week. Check it again. When the drill slides in the wood has stabilized. Now you're ready to glue. Sand the tubes and wipe them clean.

Remember for oily woods to clean the blanks hole using a q-tip with something like DNA just before you glue tube in. I always clean any blank this way.

Another trick I've learned from Bill at the original Arizona Silhouette is to plug the ends of the Tubes. I use dental wax, available from them.

Just push the end of the tube perpendicular into the wax sheet. Wipe the outside end of the tubes to remove excess wax.

I learned a long time ago plastics, acrylics and the like are stable and don't move. But you always have to get the glue in the blank.

This is how I glue. Now that the Tubes are plugged, you place your glue over complete tube, press it into one end of blank.

Quickly remove tube, add glue again, place the opposite end of tube into other end of blank, rotating it as you push it in.

One problem here. Oily wood, tight holes and other issues may not allow you to remove and replace the tube. DAMHIKT. Work fast!

Now let the glue set up at least a day or more based on the glue used.

Next punch out the wax, scrape any glue that may have rolled over the tubes end with a sharp knife or a fine round file, then use a q-tip to remove wax and filings from each end inside of tube. Trim the ends of tubes and your ready to turn.


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## Bryguy (Oct 6, 2019)

I'm totally sold on Gorilla glue. I have been using it for years with no failures. It is quicker and less messy than epoxy. I always give it at least 8 hours to dry/cure before turning. The glue's expansion helps cover a multitude of sins. 
When segmenting I use thick CA for gluing plastic-plastic, plastic-wood.  I use Tite-bond for gluing wood-wood. I find epoxy expensive, wasteful (a lot gets thrown away after mixing, and somewhat unpredictable.


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## WriteON (Oct 7, 2019)

Just my .02.. Sharp tools and technique override that kind of damage. Bob Smith CA has been working out very well.


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## howsitwork (Oct 16, 2019)

I’ve tried CA and epoxy and prefer epoxy , slow curing for the extra working time. I bung the tube end with blu tac ( flexible adhesive for posters , still marks your walls but doesnt  usually pull the wall paper off ). I also made a tapered insertion tool from HDPE cos it’s easy to wipe clean. 

For oily woods such as Lignum vitae I had to use a wider drill and degrease with cellulose thinners on a Q tip then leave over night before trying the tube again to make sure it went in !

Not tried gorilla glue for pens but it sure ruins t shirts ! I do use CA to secure fittings if I’m worried but disassembly then becomes an issue . If you leave the damaged bit/to soak in acetone overnight ( or leave it a few days ) then it turns the CA to mush and you can often get the bits apart relatively easily. With araldyte heating until it just smokes denatures it and you can scrape it off. 

Thanks for the idea of colouring the epoxy , brilliant  why did i never think of that !


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## ramaroodle (Oct 19, 2019)

jttheclockman said:


> Absolutely not on the eliminating need to reverse paint the blank Forget painting tubes. waste of time. Paint the blank on those transparent blanks. I will use tinted epoxy for a couple reasons. One is if the blank gets scratched then the epoxy is the next layer you will see through the blank. You are not scratching paint off epoxy. Stop and think what a blank is and what happens when it is transparent. When you turn it down to pen size the first layer you see is the underside of the blank. The next layer is the adhesive you used, and finally the tube used. The use of belt and suspenders is fine but the use of belt, suspenders and safety pins is over kill.
> 
> The next reason I tint epoxy is when making segmented blanks. I will match colors usually white or black or red with the color of materials used. This is sort of a fill in case there is any gaps in the segmenting. I will give you an example. The pen I shown here is black acrylic and aluminum knot. I glued the aluminum in with black tinted epoxy and you probably can see the edges of the metal have the hint of the black epoxy. It works well.




Yes, brilliant! Just wondering if Alumilite dyes can be used to color 2 part epoxy glue?  It makes sense to do that with blanks made from cast Alumilite etc. that can be a little transparent when close to the tube and when segmenting.


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## VA Jim (Oct 19, 2019)

I've used Alumilite dyes with Devcon two part epoxy - seems to work just fine.  Can't imagine it wouldn't work w/ other brands as well.  Try for a very small drop - a little goes a long way.


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## randyrls (Oct 20, 2019)

leehljp said:


> For very delicate blanks, I will use the poly and let them set overnight. Epoxy holds better than CA in situations as you posted. But the expanding polyurethane GRABS and sticks! Takes longer and it can push the tube out if one is not careful.



Yes;  I have had this happen.


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