# Skew



## panini (Mar 17, 2008)

I'm looking to getting a skew, the question is. What kind,  rounded tip skew, rounded edge or oval and size? It'll be used mostly for pen making..Too many to choose..


----------



## rherrell (Mar 17, 2008)

I like the standard skew, 3/4" for pens.


----------



## R2 (Mar 17, 2008)

Thefirst pens I ever turned were with a rounded end oval skew. Did alright for a beginner!


----------



## ed4copies (Mar 17, 2008)

http://www.pennstateind.com/store/lx030.html

I have 5 of these, three in the shop, two that go to shows with me.

They hold an edge OK, I also have 2 sorby skews.  They hold an edge even better.  But the five skews were not as expensive as my 1" sorby.

Up to you!


----------



## Hello (Mar 17, 2008)

I hate skews of all sorts.
I rarely use anything more than a 1/2 inch roughing gouge and a fingernail gouge.


----------



## karlkuehn (Mar 17, 2008)

I just got a 1" Australian Patience and Nicholson skew from CSUSA. It came unhandled and took about an hour of honing, but it is razor sharp, and is holding an edge about 10 times as long as my beat up old HF 1" that I'd been using for the last year and a half. I like the P&N a lot because it's got a radiused bottom and square edges on the top, with flat sides. It's a heavy sucker, and doesn't chatter like the HF one. It was around $50. Handles are easy to make, just drill a 1/2" hole in a 16" spindle blank and go! My handle's going to be a little on the fancy side, though. 

I tell you, I should've upgraded a long time ago! This thing is so much fun to use, and the edge gets razor sharp! I had to refine my edge testing technique a little bit after a couple of close calls - there's no more checking with my thumb, and even testing on my thumbnail it catches even at the steepest angle. Now I just have to finish the handle. I've been using it roughed out until my ferrule gets here.


----------



## gerryr (Mar 17, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Hello_
> 
> I hate skews of all sorts.
> I rarely use anything more than a 1/2 inch roughing gouge and a fingernail gouge.



If it works for you, that's fine, but it's hardly relevant.

I use a 3/4" Crown Pro-PM rounded edge skew.  If I were buying it again, I would just get a regular edge.


----------



## Chasper (Mar 17, 2008)

> I just got a 1" Australian Patience and Nicholson skew from CSUSA.



Karl,
I only see one P&H skew offered at CSUSA, and it is in three sizes, that must be the one you are referring to.   

There is not mention of HSS HHS HYZ and whatever all those initials are that people throw around when talking skew?  Is this the good steel that is hard to shapren but holds an edge better?   You think one inch is better than 3/4 for pen turning?  Thanks


----------



## wdcav1952 (Mar 17, 2008)

Wise decision to learn the skew, Mark.  It takes a bit of time but delivers a far better finish than gouges.  I use a $10 flat 1 inch skew chisel I got at a flea market, so that isn't much help.


----------



## dalemcginnis (Mar 17, 2008)

I use a curved skew with a rounded edge.  Have Sorby straight oval skews but don't like them as much as my curved Lacer skew. Probably because the Lacer was the first "good" skew I used.


----------



## Brewmeister35 (Mar 17, 2008)

I like both the oval skews and the rounded tipped Lacer style skew.  I just bought a 3/4" oval skew and love it since it won't catch on the tool rest at all.


----------



## karlkuehn (Mar 17, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Chasper_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah, that's the one! Before I bought it, I went rooting around looking for information on the steel, it is M2 HSS. I did a lot of research on different tool companies and types of steel, and for the money, I think that these are the best. There's no 'Signature' line where you pay for a name, and like many of the reviews I read, I'm not sold on all the new powdered metallurgy and kryo stuff to warrant paying out that kind of money for something that stays sharp '10x' longer. I imagine it's a lot harder to get it to sharp in the first place, and M2 is plenty hard to begin with. Besides, if you don't get to hone your tools on a regular basis, you'll never get really good at it.

Here's a little blurb about P&N from the Lee Valley site:

"Though relatively new to North America, the Australian-manufactured Patience & Nicholson (P&N) turning tools are well known in the South Pacific and valued for their robust construction and ability to hold an edge. The tools are hard-wearing, M2 high-speed steel. Supplied unhandled, they can be fitted to a custom handle you make or you can use a heavy-duty metal handle (like the Kelton handles), which allows you to set the projection of the shaft to increase comfort, bolster rigidity and reduce chatter."

One of the other things that sold me on these is the weight. They're bulky and rigid, and the flimsiness of the HF really gets me aggravated sometimes. You can have the best mandrel in the world, but if your tool flexes, it's gonna chatter. Also, having the square edge on the top two edges is nice for turning it over and roughing out blanks. The rounded edges tend to slip around a little bit when you're going point-down across the tool rest and working the 'front' of the blank.

I'm very impressed at the quality of the tool. I've looked at the Crowns and Sorby's at Woodcraft, and IMO, this is much better quality. I also liked that I was only paying for the steel, not some half-assed handle made out of ash or something that doesn't fit me perfectly. I ordered a brass ferrule from CSUSA, too. You could get away with the 1" ferrule, but I'm going to use th 1 1/4" one. I actually bought 5 of the P&N tools from them to get the 10% discount, too, so I get to make a bunch of handles, which will be fun, and by buying a quality tool and investing some time in it, I'll have something really personal and unique to hand down to my successor someday. I haven't decided yet whether I'm going to make a set with matching wood handles or use a bunch of different woods and designs. I got their 1" roughing gouge, too...I was going to get the 1 1/4" one, but that thing's monstrous. It'd be great if I was turning telephone poles, but for the stuff I do, small bowls and stoppers and such, I think the 1" gouge will be a lot better. I got a couple of their bowl gouges and a spindle and detail gouge, too. I really like that all of their gouges are turned from round stock, too. Makes drilling the handles simple, and they'll also fit in the composite and wood interchangable handles. I'm planning on drilling out the back of my wood handles to add bb's for counterbalance weight, and I'll put enough bb's in there to balance each tool at the ferrule. once I fill it with bbs, I'll add some styrofoam or whatever to keep them from sounding like maracas when I shake them, and then attach some sort of finial or cabochon over the hole. I guess I'm going to have to weigh the plug with the bb's for proper balance - just thought of that. heh

As far as size, it's really a matter of preference, but when I first started using the skew exclusively, I read something that someone said which basically summed up to: The wider the skew, the easier it is to learn, because there's less chance of catching because of the wide cutting edge. They also said as you get better, you get more comfortable and will eventually be able to swing a 1/4" skew with no problem. I just got used to the 1", and I like how wide it is for those times where I use it laying flat across the tool rest to smooth off ridges and stuff. There's more edge there, too, so it's less trips to the sharpener. I personally like having a bigger tool to hold, as I'm a kinda bulky guy and small stuff sort of gets lost in my hands.  Besides, you just get used to whatever you're using. I turned that beaded purple resin pen last night with my 1" skew alone, so it's not too hard to get real detailed with the bigger tools.

Hope this helps!


----------



## Chasper (Mar 17, 2008)

Thanks Karl, you have really thought this through.  I'm about to take the bait for the P&N.  I've been looking for several weeks, taking in all that others have to say.  I don't think I've run across anyone who is more sure of their tool choice than you.  

Its going to take a lot of BBs to counter weight those hefty tools, you might do better with a steel rod.  I used to do a little black market business in corked softball bats.  I'd drill them out and epoxy in a steel bar for a few ounces of illegal extra weight.  None of them ever broke lose and rattled, but after enough weather exposure the steel bar would rust.  That paid pretty good.

I think I'll stick with 3/4"  I learned on a 1/2 inch skew and I really like that tool, but it seems to be growing shorter in its old age.  I've had adequate to practice my honing skills.  Its good to know that the 3/4" might be easier.  So many experienced users seem to be doing micro fine work with 1 inch skews or even larger.


----------



## ranchonodinero (Mar 18, 2008)

Who has the best price on the P&N skews?


----------



## karlkuehn (Mar 18, 2008)

> _Originally posted by ranchonodinero_
> 
> Who has the best price on the P&N skews?



Best price I found was at CSUSA. They have Lee Valley beat by a couple of dollars. The 1" skew was 48.99 or something. Make sure you get the ferrule, too. They're nice heavy brass ones for just a few dollars. I guess you could just use copper pipe or something, too, but I didn't want to have to buy a whole pipe for a few ferrules. The brass ones have a directional barb stamped into them, too, helping to keep it on the tool.


----------



## Rifleman1776 (Mar 18, 2008)

I use a standard 1" skew for 90% of my spindle turning. My new one is a Taylor in HSS.


----------



## pianomanpj (Mar 18, 2008)

Anyone happen to know what Ed Davidson (yoyospin) uses for a skew in his videos? Man, can he make beautiful shavings with that thing![]


----------



## Fred (Mar 19, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Hello_
> 
> I hate skews of all sorts.
> I rarely use anything more than a 1/2 inch roughing gouge and a fingernail gouge.



IMHO you are missing out on the use of a very important tool.


----------



## panini (Mar 19, 2008)

Ed Davidson (yoyospin) uses a 1in flat top looks like oval skew in his videos


----------



## karlkuehn (Mar 22, 2008)

If you haven't watched them, I highly recommend Alan Lacer's 'Skew' and 'Son of Skew' videos. I just bought them and watched both, and I'm sorry I waited so long to do so. Like others have said, they are amazingly educational, and I learned a ton. There were many things that he mentioned in there I knew about already, but he explained them in such a way that now I not only know the effect, I know the cause as well.

Of note, the first project that he works on in 'Son of Skew' is a tool handle project, which was great for me to see as I'm in the beginning stages of making 10 or 12 of them. A lot of good tips, and I also noticed that between his first and second videos, he has switched a lot of his tools to Patience and Nicholson stuff, and his main skew is just like the one I bought from CSUSA, so I'm sold that it's a really good tool if the likes of Mr. Lacer is using one! Now, if only I can learn to use it as well as he does...

Hmmm...after looking at his web site, I'm thinking that he's using Glaser, not P&N, but I'm not sure, I'm still trying to find good pictures of a glaser skew. If it is Glaser, they look identical to the P&N, though.

Yep, after further review, they are Glaser, and made from A-11 tool steel. Not sure how that compares to M2, though.

Here's the price from his website for those tools:

    *  1-3/8" is $175 handled or $145 unhandled and unsharpened
    * 5/8" is $125 handled or $100 unhandled and unsharpened.

They're definitely proud of them! heh...I think I'll stick with mine.


----------



## Scott (Mar 22, 2008)

I have lots of skews!  The one I always reach for is the big Lacer skew, like 1 3/8" or something.  I really love the shape and the detailing.  The weight soaks up vibration and makes it more stable.  It is a great skew.  The only other one I use at all is a 3/4" Sorby, and then only to get into tight spaces.

I have three P & N gouges.  I love them because it's nice to see the emphasis on what works, rather than on what's easy to make.  Everybody should have one of their roughing gouges!  P & N makes some of the nicest tools around.

If I could get my hands on a Glaser skew, I'd do it.  I have never seen a Glaser tool that wasn't just about the best in it's class (and that's a pretty high class!).  I have one Glaser gouge, and it is amazing!

I applaud you on wanting to learn the skew!  There is a reason that so many good turners use them, and it isn't because we love frustration!   [8D]

Scott.


----------



## chigdon (Mar 22, 2008)

I have a couple and do have a Glaser as well.  The Glaser is the main one I use but I have been wanting to try an P&H for a while and I think I am sold on trying it now.  

As for larger tools they can be more forgiving IMHO and somehow many people see that as a negative.  I don't think that more forgiving means using training wheels but instead means less screw ups.  The money and time I spend getting my wood and materials is never fun when something blows up.  Thankfully it is not very often any more but part of that is finding  the right tools as well as technique.  If larger tools, more steel, and more vibration absorbing handles helps then why not.

As for making a handle to counterbalance the weight I have 3 thoughts.  One, start with a larger handle that you can tuck against your side for more stability anyway.  (If it works for bowls and vessels it still makes sense for pens.  Just because pens are small doesn't mean you need small tools.)  Two, make then out of more dense woods.  If the ash handle blank isn't heavy enough for your needs get some lignum vitae or something like that.  You don't need snakewood (unless you have the $) but there are some affordable dense woods that would do the trick.  Third, if you want to "cork" them with some weight use lead shot instead of bb's.


----------



## stevebuk (Mar 23, 2008)

just bought myself a new standard shape skew, 3/4inch, love it..


----------



## randyrls (Mar 23, 2008)

> _Originally posted by karlkuehn_
> 
> I tell you, I should've upgraded a long time ago! This thing is so much fun to use, and the edge gets razor sharp! I had to refine my edge testing technique a little bit after a couple of close calls - there's no more checking with my thumb, and even testing on my t



I "blooded" one of my skews yesterday.  I thought I just touched my thumb, but blood will tell.

Boy that's sharp!


----------



## IPD_Mrs (Mar 23, 2008)

I started with a Sorby oval skew.  Had my share of catches and other problems with it.  Broke down and bought Son of Skew by lacer and got educated.  I have since bought the 5/8" lacer skew put out by Hamlet and the difference is unreal.  I will round and finish a blank with this skew with no problem.  Many times the finish is good enough from the skew that I can skip the 220 and 320 sanding.  I have even had PR good enough to just start MM sanding once turned to size.  

Is it a miracle cure to using a skew?  No it is just good basic fundamentals and things seem to fall in place from there.

Mike


----------

