# Need family advice...



## MesquiteMan (Nov 27, 2010)

Folks, as I said in another thread, we had to put my dad back in the hospital a few days ago with pneumonia for the 5th time this year.  He is now home but we have some other issues to deal with.  

My dad is only 65 but 5 years ago had nasal-pharyngeal cancer.  As a result of the radiation treatments to his head, his health has taken a very big nose dive.  He has a real hard time swallowing and as a result, aspirates some of his food which is causing the pneumonia.  The doctors say he needs a feeding tube but he does not want one.

On top of all this, the radiation has caused frontal lobe necrosis to his brain and as a result, he now is experiencing pretty bad dementia/Alzheimer.  He had his left eye removed a year or so ago and has a hard time seeing well.  Also, due to the brain issue, he sometimes gets real mad and makes harmful threats.

I need some advice!  We are having a family meeting tonight to sit down with him and tell him he is no longer allowed to drive his truck.  He recently hit a tree and we are worried about him hitting another car and killing someone.  The doctors have also told us we need to ask him what he wants us to do the next time he has pneumonia.  He has not wanted to go to the hospital the last few times but I went over and told him he had three choices, he could walk to the car, I could throw him over my shoulder and carry him to the car, or we can call an ambulance.  A couple of times with his pneumonia he also had a seizure so we did not feel safe in personal transportation so we called an ambulance.  

Anyway, the doctors say that we need to ask him while he has a rational mind what he wants to do.  If he does not want to go to the hospital, then they say we should not force him and we should just call hospice.  I find that hard to swallow, knowing that I would not be doing everything that I can for him but if it is his wish, then I guess his wish should be honored.

Also, this past time while he was in the hospital I went over to their house and removed all of his guns.  We were really worried that in one of his altered mind states that he might do harm to my mom or himself.  I don't know how to handle telling him about it.  He is going to feel that I betrayed him but I would rather him feel that then have him harm himself or my mom.  I don't think he would but you never know.  Should I tell him I took them or just wait and hope he does not notice and then deal with the fallout?

I am just thinking we may be putting too much on him at one time.  Telling him he can not drive is going to be bad enough, then telling him I took his guns will be even worse.  Then having to ask him if he wants to just stay home and possibly pass away may just break his spirit. Although, he does say all the time that he is good with the Lord and is ready to die and sometime even says he wants to die.

If anyone has any experience with anything like this and can provide some good advice before 7pm central time tonight about our meeting, I would sincerely appreciate it.  You can post here, PM me, or call me at 512-738-0775

Please, I am not asking for sympathy and am not telling you guys this to tug at your heartstrings.  I just need someone with some advice and don't know where to turn.  Since you guys are my extended family, I decided I would post it here!  Thanks in advance.


----------



## skiprat (Nov 27, 2010)

I can't offer any advice, but I actually think you already have a strong enough character to handle this in a way that is not only best for him, but especially for the rest of the family.
'Needs Must' Good luck.


----------



## keithkarl2007 (Nov 27, 2010)

Just be honest with him. Tell him you love him and don't want to see him get hurt. Tell him for his safety and the safety of others you felt it appropriate to remove the things you felt a danger to all involved. If he needs to go anywhere offer to take him.


----------



## just_call_me_dusty (Nov 27, 2010)

Let the LORD guide you Curtis...  HIS. will, will be done.   Trust me it works.


----------



## Russianwolf (Nov 27, 2010)

PM sent. Call me if you want.


----------



## witz1976 (Nov 27, 2010)

Curtis, there is no good answer or easy answer.  

When my grandfather passed over 5 years ago, he went though episodes of dementia.  My selfish uncle simply put him in a home as he did not want to "deal with his issues". My Mom & I wanted to try to help, however living over 500 miles away has its disadvantages and needless to say we were helpless.  

I think if you are honest, prove anyway you can that you are doing everything for him and his well being he may hopefully understand.  Good luck!


----------



## PTownSubbie (Nov 27, 2010)

Curtis,

First off I wish you luck! Having just lost my Father to cancer, I have a feeling what you are going through.

All I can say is like you want, give him everything that he desires. I wished I could have given more to my Father!

The choice is yours but I think that I would not tell him about the guns. If he finds them missing then it is a good thing that you took them. If he never looks for them then he never knows they are gone. 

I would also break things to him slowly on the changes. Like you said, he has a bunch to deal with and the fewer changes that happen at once the better.  I also think that even though it will be hard, you need to reason with him on why you are wanting him to stop driving. If he has a hard spot with the reasoning, maybe you can get the doctor or someone to recommend his license being removed or something along those lines.

You have a lot to deal with right now and I hope things go well for you!

Take care and Good Luck!


----------



## PenMan1 (Nov 27, 2010)

Curtis: 
My thoughts and prayers are with you. We have a neighbor with very similar problems. Ron, the neighbor, has recovered from the cancer and from multiple bouts of phenemonia. Unfortunately, the frontal lobe demensia only gets worse with time. It now takes our entire community to look after Ron.

These decisions have to be hard to make, but they must be made. If I can help in any way, you have my contact info.


----------



## alphageek (Nov 27, 2010)

Curtis, I'm out with family, but I'll give you the limited advise that I can..

Stick to the truck - no one in your family needs the guilt if he were to hurt anyone.

As for the guns, I'd say take them and don't tell until he notices.  Then if he notices, I'd suggest outings if he wants to shoot/hunt.  That way he isn't alone.  And it's really easy to say "someday soon" if it becomes an issue that he shouldn't have them even with support.

Other than that ... Good luck, and if you need to vent you know where you can!

Dean


----------



## JimB (Nov 27, 2010)

Hi Curtis - my advise would be for one family member to speak to him one on one. If you do it family meeting style it may be overwhelming for him and potentially embarrassing. 

Good luck with it. I wish you, your father and your family all the best.


----------



## ssajn (Nov 27, 2010)

Curtis, I think Dean gave you some good advise about how to handle the guns. 

As far as the truck I also agree, he shouldn't drive. Years ago a friend of mine was unable to drive safely although he said he could. His wife talked to his doctor and had him make a call where he was responsible for having the license pulled. Marshall was still t'd off that he couldn't drive but couldn't blame the family.

Hope this helps


----------



## OKLAHOMAN (Nov 27, 2010)

Curtis, I'm in a very similar situation myself, I wish you the best. I have no advise to give because I just don't know what I'll do when I go to Florida the week after next to meet with my sister and his Doctors. His is not a question of  physical sickness...dementia/Alzheimer is a sickness that seems at times even worse. He and Mom have a condo in Clearwater and his dog is his treasure but lately he can't remember the dogs name. He also is still driving (he's 89) and we're worried one day he'll leave for Publix and wind up in Georgia. Mom is no help as she seems oblivious to it all (aftet 71 years of marriage you become blind to your mates decline).


----------



## mbroberg (Nov 27, 2010)

*Your Father*

Curtis,

I'll make this short because I think that as I write this it is only an hour to your meeting.

My parents were in a bad auto accident 9 years ago while vacatining in Colorado from Ohio. My Mom dided sortly after the accident. My Dad hung on for about three weeks.

My Dad had a broken back and was paralyzed from the neck down. Still, like you, my brother and I felt as if we had to do all we could for him. We flew out there the night of the accident and stayed with hm the entire last 3 weeks of his life. We were attempting to make arrangments to get him back to Ohio. But here's thing, one night he looked me square in the eye and said, "Help me go home". I assured him we were attempting to get him back to Ohio. "No, help me GO HOME".

I tell you this because I strongly believe now, after undergoing this experience, that many people, "attempt to do all they can" for a loved one, but really they are doing it all for themselves. In my Dad's case, he had just lost his wife and his mobility. He had no QUALITY OF LIFE left. He would not wanted to live under those circumstances. He later went into arrest and we told the Doctor to not resusutate. I cried for quite a while, but in my heart I know we made the right decision, for him, not us.

What is your father's quality of life? My advice is to make decisions based on what you know about your father and the kind of life he leads. Keeping him at home, may make you feel good but what about him? Keeping him alive may make you feel good, but what about him? If you were your father what would you want done for you?

This is a hurried up story and opinion about an extremely complicated and amotional situation. I hope it helps a little. Good luck! I'll say a prayer or two for you and your family.

Mike


----------



## GoodTurns (Nov 27, 2010)

Curtis, it sounds as if he is still rational and sounds like a man who would rather have it straight than a "pity party", talking to him about your / the family's concerns one on one, man to man, might work better than "ganging up" on him, which he may see the meeting as.  Fair, honest and heartfelt would be my approach.


----------



## Jgrden (Nov 27, 2010)

My only advice, looking back on events with Mary's father and my own, is to be the foundation and strength of the conversation. Avoid any emotion if possible. Once the issues are out and on the table, things will take care of themselves, with your guidance and the Good Lords help.


----------



## LizardSpit (Nov 27, 2010)

You are in my prayers!!!

About the guns - I a rational moment he would thank you for being brave enough to think of everyones safety.

The same about the truck.


----------



## gketell (Nov 27, 2010)

At some point he may decide life isn't worth living any more.  If he decides that too late then there is nothing that can be done.  The Dr's will do everything to keep him alive as long as possible possibly bankrupting everyone.  

When you have your meeting with him talk about "would there ever be a situation where you don't want the Dr's to try anymore?".  If there is, get a Living Will so the Drs have to follow his wishes.  My parents both had a "if it is terminal apply no extraordinary measures to prolong my life"  but added "oxygen and pain reducers should be used to improve the quality of life while I do live".

It is a hard hard discussion but not having it is far worse if things go badly.

Good luck and I hope things improve for your dad.
GK


----------



## LEAP (Nov 27, 2010)

Curtis,
I just saw this to late for your meeting, but just wanted to offer my support. After watching my FIL go through a long lingering demise, I admire your Dad's wishes to go with dignity. It sounded like you had a great visit with him this fall. I'm sure he will understand that his son has only the best intentions. Take good care of him He will know.


----------



## BKelley (Nov 27, 2010)

Curtis,

God will prevail, all things work out for the best in the long run.  The guns, my dad loved guns, I did not have the heart to take them away from him, but without his knowing I did remove the firing pins. Daddy had his guns and never knew that they would not fire.  I can promise you this, I will pray for you & your dad tonight.


----------



## broitblat (Nov 27, 2010)

Curtis,

My parents both lived in another state from my brothers and I.  They are not together -- they've been divorced 30 years.  My mother passed away last November and my father was in the hospital at the time.  When we all came into town to  make arrangements for my mother, my father said "well maybe I should just go now, too".  Three weeks later, he did pass away.

I'm finding it difficult to get my message across.  My father was 80, and still going to work every day, but he was at peace with his life and that made it possible for him to go on his own terms.

I have not been close to my parents.  Still, their passing leaves little holes in my life every day.  

My mother needed a lot of help before she passed away, and the decisions we made on her behalf were not always easy (or welcome by her), but we always consulted as a family and tried to do what was best for her.  I think that's the best we could do.

  -Barry


----------



## TomW (Nov 27, 2010)

Curtis,

Sorry I am late.  

My parents both had Alzheimers.  Dad became very dangerous/threatening, especially to my mom.  Mom had a bad car wreck, and later was found inside her neighbors house "looking for my little daughter" (who was 40 at the time).  She was almost shot by the homeowner.

Anything you do as a family is better than the results of doing nothing.

Praying for you.
tom


----------



## kyclay (Nov 27, 2010)

I AM A RESPIRTORY THERAPIST AND WORK IN A HOSPITAL.  i SEE SIMILIAR SITUATIONS FAIRLY OFTEN.  If he is in his right mind, let him amke his won decision and then honor it.  To avoid placing your family is such a difficult place, it's a very good idea to appoint one person with a medical POA and discuss yur desires in some detail with them.  My heart goes out to you and your family.  If he is right with the Lord, it's a win/win situation for him.


----------



## Pens By Scott (Nov 27, 2010)

Curtis,
All I can say is remember what your folks likely taught you, honesty is the best policy.  We may not always like what we hear, but we can respect the ones saying what has to be said.  I may not know you or your father, but you both seem to be strong people from what I have read, he's been through a lot, and, I am sure he has the courage and the strength to hear what has to be said.

As for the guns, removing the firing pin, seems to be the safest for all involved, likely your father may not feel up to going out shooting over the next little while, so making them safe to have around, and reducing both your stresses and his, may be the best course of action their.

I know, the discussion around the ability to drive will likely not be a good one, but remember, it's about keeping him safe as much as every other person, friend and family member...  Again, a driver's license is never an easy thing to surrender, but likely he will see the reason and choose the better path.

I don't envy you and your family's situation, you will be in my thoughts over the next few days, as I see these types of conversations in my near future with my family as well.

Take care, be strong, it will all work out over time.


----------



## phillywood (Nov 27, 2010)

Curtis, sorry I am late. I just got through reading this. I am hoping that everything went the way which is best for all involved. I admire you trying to seek advise and sometimes it's good to talk it over with other people who may have experienced it before you. some of the folks above gave you very good advise, and I agree giving your Dad benefit of the doubts and respecting his wishes is the best you could do. I had to do many papers for the issue of taking the drivers license away from the elderly and it's not a very easy issue. The best thing is to try to make them to understand that you are ding it for their own safety and the others as well w/o feeling pity for them or make them feel unworthy. As for the guns I have never owned one and can't give you any advise, but it seems that the folks who offered that you should remove the safety pin are very wise, since that will not feel that all of a sudden he is loosing everything he loved in life.
I pray that all your meeting went smooth and positive. it's better that you had this discussion with him now than when things may not be easier if the situation gets little more difficult. You and your family would be in prayers and I pray that God gives you the wisdom to deal with all these situations that you are undertaking these last few months.


----------



## Lenny (Nov 27, 2010)

I know I'm too late to offer advice and probably couldn't have offered anything beyond what you already know in your heart anyway. I still am trying to deal with the passing of my dad recently myself, but I KNOW THIS .... If I ever come to a point in my life where another person has to step in and make tough decisions for me, I HOPE that person has even half of the character, compassion, fairness and good sense that you display here every day!  I wish you and your family the best in these trying times!


----------



## sdemars (Nov 27, 2010)

Wish you all the luck in the world on this . . . .

Take care,
Steve


----------



## dasimm (Nov 27, 2010)

Curtis - not that I can add much that has not already been said - but know this - most of us have gone through or are going through something similar. It tests your emotional strength, makes you question the powers to be, and puts the entire family under duress... Over time you can look back and know you did what was right and you can take comfort in that knowledge.

Good luck & God Bless


----------



## Old Lar (Nov 27, 2010)

Our thoughts and prayers are with you, your dad and your family.  Do what is right in your heart.  That is the way your dad would want it; that is the way he raised you and would want you to react.  Best of luck with your decisions and don't forget, the Lord will not give you more than he thinks you can handle.


----------



## Dave Turner (Nov 28, 2010)

I see by the posts here that many people will eventually face this situation. Having been there a few times, I cannot overemphasize how helpful the people at hospice can be. They have the experience and resources available to steer you in the right direction.


----------



## EmersonMA (Nov 28, 2010)

*I know what you're going through*

Sorry I didn't read your post earlier.  
I know exactly what you’re going through.    We are going through the same situation, only it’s been going on for three years now.  Unfortunately my story doesn’t end well.
Good luck, being truthful wasn’t easy for us but it was absolutely necessary.  A matter of a heart attack and a couple strokes followed by dementia made it necessary, it was then and continues to be so now.


----------



## Jim15 (Nov 28, 2010)

Curtis I hope your meeting went as well as possible. He will be in my prayers, as will your entire family.


----------



## dogcatcher (Nov 28, 2010)

I am one of those parents that was asked to give up driving.  On December 24th it will be 6 years since I have driven on a public road.   Blind in one eye, and a compression of the spinal cord.  My family was lucky, I already knew the answer and drove very little before I was asked.  

But they have to abide by my rules, every time I want to go fishing or hunting, I better have a driver.  If I don't I get a new pickup, that day and I keep the keys and they know I will do it.  To keep them on their toes, I renewed my drivers license this month, passed with flying colors.  

Hope all went well, because I realize not all of us old people are that willing to give up our freedom.  Some of us do have some stubborn streaks.


----------



## jttheclockman (Nov 28, 2010)

Curtis

You have already gotten some good sound advice about the guns and the driving because you do not want to add the guilt to the family if something terrible should happen to others  because of his situation. You I am sure are well aware of this and probably have had this discussion. Yes taking away one's freedoms is the hardest thing to do and I know when it comes my time to be stripped of these I will fight with all my might. Just a natural reaction. For this though you will have peace of mind.

As far as the health issues, I can go into a whole story about my Dad 4 years ago when he passed. How painful that was then and still I feel the loss. I remember talking to him about all his health issues and asking him to help me make the tough decisions because he always was there for me when the road got toughest. I remeber him saying was all he wanted to do was live and to help him. Well we did all we possibly could and yet to this day I am not sure we did and I have been told over and over again to let the guilt feelings go. But the day we had to make the decision to take him off life support was the toughest day in my life. My mom right now is deteriating and the dimensia is continuing to increase and I know I will be faced once again with the same questions and doubts our family went through with my Dad and what you are going through. 

Having a family meeting is wise and everyones feeling can be heard and all possibilities are layed out on the table. Getting your Dad's input while he still is in a somewhat state of comprehensive mind will help you in your decisions. The decisions will not be at all easy and no one here can tell you what to do. All we can do is off the shoulder to hold onto. These are things that must be made within your family and with God. I am sure you and your family will do the right things because you will be guided by the hand of God. Good luck and take care.


----------



## Jgrden (Nov 28, 2010)

dogcatcher said:


> I am one of those parents that was asked to give up driving.  On December 24th it will be 6 years since I have driven on a public road.   Blind in one eye, and a compression of the spinal cord.  My family was lucky, I already knew the answer and drove very little before I was asked.
> 
> But they have to abide by my rules, every time I want to go fishing or hunting, I better have a driver.  If I don't I get a new pickup, that day and I keep the keys and they know I will do it.  To keep them on their toes, I renewed my drivers license this month, passed with flying colors.
> 
> Hope all went well, because I realize not all of us old people are that willing to give up our freedom.  Some of us do have some stubborn streaks.


I love this guy. Sharp as a tack.


----------



## el_d (Nov 28, 2010)

Curtis, sorry to hear about the tough situation your in.

 Life sometimes hands us hard decisions but I believe as long as you feel what you are doing is right in your heart you have to have faith that you decisions will be guided by our father above. 
 You have a good head on your shoulders and your dad had a hand in shaping it. 
 The decisions you make may not be understood by you father in his fragile state but he would most likely make the same choices you would.


----------



## Drstrangefart (Nov 28, 2010)

I'd have to say honesty is the only viable policy. At least that gives him the dignity of being able to make what decisions he can. You and your family probably know in your hearts what the right thing to do is, and will probably go with it even though it's hard. I've seen my grandfather go through a lengthy hospice and towards the end there he was getting pretty hard to try to help. No one kept the truth from him, and he was mostly in good spirits the last few years. Not saying that's gonna be what happens to you, but at least you'll know you did what was right for the situation. Sometimes when it feels like you're not doing enough, God's about to hand you exactly what you need to know for it to be right.


----------



## MesquiteMan (Nov 29, 2010)

Thank you all so much for your advice and heartfelt replies and PMs.  You guys are all amazing people!  I received over 30 PMs on this and a couple of phone calls.  Most of the PMs had phone numbers and offers for me to call.  I did not have time to call everyone but it sure is nice to know that you all were there for me.  THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!

The meeting with my dad went fair.  I choose not to tell him about the guns yet.  I will do that when we are alone some time soon.  Did not want to hit him with too many things at once.  Naturally, he is bitter about not being able to drive but I think we came up with a good solution.  We are going to buy him a Polaris Ranger or a Kubota RTV.  That way he will have something to drive around his property and drive down the subdivision to his commercial rental property to check on things.  That way he will still have some mobility.

As for the other part, we discussed his issues and had him fill out and sign an Advanced Directive so we all are on the same page when the time comes.  It was a difficult discussion and naturally, he felt nothing was wrong and that we were just over reacting but deep down, he knows.

Thanks again everyone!


----------



## nava1uni (Nov 29, 2010)

Sounds like you came up with a good solution.  I hope that the days are somewhat easier for all of you.  I don't know if you know it, but you can utilize Hospice services, they are covered by Medicare, for 6 months to a year.  They provide lots of support, and getting them involved earlier will give your father, and your family, an opportunity to develop a relationship that will be helpful later.


----------



## ctubbs (Nov 29, 2010)

You are one of the wise ones.  So many try to hang onto the very last possible breath.  Thank you for sharing your wisdom with so many of us.  I totally agree with the idea of a 4 wheeler.  That allows him to maintain his freedom of movement and independance.  Great decisions all.
Charles


----------

