# CA Frustration >.<



## ChrisD123 (Jun 13, 2012)

Hey Guys!, Newish pen turner here. I'm having difficulties finishing with CA glue and i've tried many different techniques along with reading probably 40 different posts on it. Im using Lee Valley Tools - Important Announcement as my glue and i live in Canada and work outside or just inside my garage with door open. ( you can imagine it gets pretty rainy and cold) I usually apply 1 drop and rub it in but I don't know what the problem is I'm applying 5 ish coats with like maybe 30 seconds between coats and then sanding with micro-mesh but only like splotches are shinny. cold it be because the temperature??? I"m really needing help because i love the shine it gives when you do it right but i cant get it....


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## EricJS (Jun 13, 2012)

You're not getting enough glue on the blank. The shiny spots are good glue coverage and the dull spots are where you sanded through the glue.

Make sure you get good (wet) coverage on each coat. Then try about 12+ coats (thin CA) or 8+ coats (medium CA) and see if that eliminates the dull spots.


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## ChrisD123 (Jun 13, 2012)

What RPM's should i run at and how long should i hold the paper towel under the blank?


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## Wright (Jun 13, 2012)

I run my lathe at 1200 rpm and paper towel is folded to two inches. I put the CA on the towel, not the blank and long enough just to coat blank and let dry before next coat.


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## Gary Beasley (Jun 13, 2012)

CA likes to be warmish when setting up. I get best results over 65F.


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## Justturnin (Jun 13, 2012)

I have to agree w/ Eric.  5 coats is no where near enough.  By the time you smooth it and polish there is no CA left.


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## tomas (Jun 13, 2012)

I apply 16 coats of medium CA with accelerator spritzed between each coat at the lowest speed on my lathe.  I use a couple of drops of CA on a folded paper towel to apply it.  After the first 8 coats, I check for any irregularities and if I find any, I do a very, very light touchup with my PenPro.  I then wet sand through all 9 levels of MicroMesh.

Tomas


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## leehljp (Jun 13, 2012)

AND if you are using paper towel, it absorbs 75% to 80% of the CA. Either allow for that and keep adding layers or use a piece of flexible plastic/nylon to apply the CA, or use rubber gloves to apply the CA.

CA can be applied even at 50° but it takes longer to cure and set up. I heat my shop in winter and will not apply below about 60°. CA works better above 70°. I have a hair dryer by my lathe and use it in cooler weather to aid the curing process. Some use accelerator and that does well for many, but for some, sometimes it causes white/fogging of the CA hours after curing.


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## DestinTurnings (Jun 13, 2012)

How I apply my 20 coats of thin CA - pen turning - YouTube

I use medium CA and probably do anywhere from 8-15 coats depending on the pen. After finishing the last coat, I wet sand the finish starting at 400 then 600, 1500, 2500 and finishing with 2 coats of Meguires scratch removing polish. Then if needed a final buff with carnuba wax.

You will have a rock hard, glass smooth, scratch/ridge free finish when you are done.

One caveat...make sure that you CA the ends of your blank BEFORE doing the finish. You can do this before you turn if you want but it needs to be done. You can seperate the CA finish from the ends when you take it off the bushings and it will leave "shiny" spots under the finish that will ruin all the work you did. Also be careful as the thick CA finish can be slightly soft and can ripple on you when you press the components together if you aren't careful. Just my 2¢.


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## commercialbuilder (Jun 14, 2012)

*Craft Foam*

Get some craft foam from the net or art supply store, it really makes a difference applying ca because it does not absorb any of the glue. It really applys the ca very smooth and you need very little sanding just use a light touch when applying.


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## danielbelltn (Jun 14, 2012)

This is a great post!

I have trouble when removing my bushings. When I remove the bushing it tends to chip or pull at the CA finish on the wood resulting in ruining the wood/finish. I have tried applying CA to the ends of the blanks. How do I separate the bushings without destroying the CA finish?


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## DestinTurnings (Jun 14, 2012)

Three ways come to mind...pick one that works best for you...

1. Turn the excess glue off back down to the bushing using a sharp skew.
2. Carefully with a little pressure, cut around the bushing with a razor blade or Xacto knife. When removing the bushings, don't pull them off...break them by wiggiling. You will hear the Ca actually crack. If you scored it with the Xacto, it will break along that line like glass.
3. (My recommendation) After turning, remove the bushings and turn between centers or swap to a 60° Delrin bushing to finish. Then just clean up the end before assembly.


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## Gary Beasley (Jun 14, 2012)

I would add to wax the bushings too so the CA will have a harder time sticking to them.


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## LagniappeRob (Jun 18, 2012)

commercialbuilder said:


> Get some craft foam from the net or art supply store, it really makes a difference applying ca because it does not absorb any of the glue. It really applys the ca very smooth and you need very little sanding just use a light touch when applying.



Sorry in advance for the newbish question... What do you mean by craft foam?  I searched Michaels.com got 16 pages of hits and nothing stood out as what you're talking about. TIA!


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## leehljp (Jun 18, 2012)

LagniappeRob said:


> commercialbuilder said:
> 
> 
> > Get some craft foam from the net or art supply store, it really makes a difference applying ca because it does not absorb any of the glue. It really applys the ca very smooth and you need very little sanding just use a light touch when applying.
> ...



Basically the purpose of craft foam is that the CA does not absorb into it like it does with paper towel. Therefore about 99% of the drop of CA goes directly onto the turning blank. With this in mind, the craft foam along with dozens of other similar products can do the same. The little plastic parts bags that pen parts come in - put a finger in one of those and apply a drop of CA and watch most of it go onto the pen blank instead of 75% being absorbed into the paper towel. 

Besides the craft foam and parts bags, rubber gloves, nitrile gloves, UHMW tape (tape for making things slide easily over it), thin margarine lids cut into strips and other thin non-sticky flexible flat material are good at applying CA.

Now that you get the concept, you might find some of the craft foam or other material for applying CA smoothly on the pen. If you are going by a Michaels or Hobby Lobby, go in and ask for craft foam. They should help you.

BTW, looks like your newspaper and maybe even their Sunday lagniappe section might be ceasing. Do they still have the Lagniappe section? I know they used to long time ago! Love that Cajun food!


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## NewLondon88 (Jun 18, 2012)

One question comes to mind (because you CAN get a nice shiny coat
with even one application of CA) is "What kind of wood are you trying
to finish?"
Don't know if someone asked and I missed it, but if you're trying to
put CA on an oily wood (cocobolo, for example) the oil will keep the
CA from adhering to the wood. So you need to clean that off first.
(wipe it down with accelerator, DNA, acetone etc.)


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## LagniappeRob (Jun 18, 2012)

leehljp said:


> LagniappeRob said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...


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## leehljp (Jun 18, 2012)

LOML was born in NO and went to school in Chalmette. We lived in the Raceland- Houma-Thibodaux area for about 6 years before going to Japan for 26. I think we had the only REAL cajun food in Japan. Everyone elses was just pretend, and weak at that! :biggrin: :biggrin:

Charlie gave some good advice above about oily woods. Make sure the wood is dry of the Accelerator before applying CA. 

One thing I forgot to mention, in the hot muggy 100% humidity days of NO summers, that kind of humidity can play tricks with CA finishes. You might see fogging up, but then again you "might" not. Although some may say to use Accelerator for the CA itself, I would stay away from it, in general until you got used to CA. Another variable is the "type" of accelerator you use.

Use some of what you have. Spray it on a blank and feel if it turns cold as it dries / evaporates. Some Accelerators do and some don't. Those that do, stay away from (because of high humidity areas) because the quick cooling will draw humidity moisture into the outer layer of wood and you will get cloudy results after a few applications of CA. That cold evaporation is what does it. I have some Accelerator that does not get cold and it seems to be better. Your situation of high humidity will affect your CA different than if you had below 70% humidity, as in other areas.


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## reiddog1 (Jun 18, 2012)

Hey Rob, come on over and I'll show ya how I do my finish.  I'm over the bridge in Belle Chasse.

Dave


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## MattTheHat (Jun 19, 2012)

I got my first acceptable CA finish just last night after about a dozen tries on various woods over the past few weeks. This was on some Desert Ironwood. I've watched all kinds of online vids showing differing techniques which just didn't work for me. Here in Texas it's hot and humid. Craft foam stays wet too long for me. Plastic bags tend to put on the CA too thickly. So, I use paper towels folded into a 1" strip, about 4 layers thick. I spin the lathe at about 800-1000 RPM. I use one or two drops of medium CA and run in quickly from side to side before it dries. I can usually go back and forth a few times before the CA starts to set. This part has always worked flawlessly for the first few coats...

What was causing me problems was that I was trying to do it without accelerator. That or I would try to rub the paper towel until the glue set. It would work for a coat or two, but before long I'd mess up my nice smooth surface or the paper towel would grab embedding itself into the CA. 

What finally worked for me was applying the CA using the paper towel moving back and forth across the blank just 2 or 3 times. Just long enough and fast enough to get the CA really smooth.  Then I would step away from the lathe while it was still running, hold the paper towel strip over the garbage can and cut off the part that had the glue on it. Stepping back to the lathe that layer of CA would be dry, but  I'd hit the spinning blank with three little mini spays of accelerator (I use the aerosol type), just in case. And I'd start over.

After about 20 applications it's ready for my usual MicroMesh pad routine followed by MM polish.

For me, the trick is to keep telling myself that each layer of CA is going on smoothly enough that I don't try to rub the paper towel back and forth too long in an attempt to get each layer perfectly smooth. Just back and forth a couple of times really quickly and it will be smooth enough. If I try get each layer "perfect" I'm going to hold the paper towel long enough to risk it grabbing. 


-Matt


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## leehljp (Jun 19, 2012)

MattTheHat said:


> I got my first acceptable CA finish just last night after about a dozen tries on various woods over the past few weeks. . . . Here in Texas it's hot and humid. Craft foam stays wet too long for me. Plastic bags tend to put on the CA too thickly.
> 
> What was causing me problems was that I was trying to do it without accelerator.
> -Matt



Matt, a lot of finishing is "relative" to the location and situation. To you, Plano is hot and humid. Plano is not humid compared to some locations. Rob, above is in the NO area and that is humid!

Humidity and temp both play an important part of CA curing. As the temps drop late this fall, you may find that your CA techniques will require adjustments. Also, the kind of accelerator used will affect the finish. Different brands and types use different chemical compounds as part of the accelerator make-up. Acetone is one ingredient that is used as a base in some but not it others; water is a base used in another, and of course there are  other ingredients. Some cause the CA to "blossom" and emit high heat. Some cause the CA to suddenly get cold to touch. Some are mild, some are stronger.

Most people do not realize these differences and why 6 months down the road that suddenly they suddenly start having problems. A search on this forum will show these same type of explanations by others from several years ago. Also going back, you will find that some people will say, "I never had a problem with cloudy and CA" and then some will say the opposite. A look at the location of the poster will show those in cooler or humid areas have one set of problems that those in hotter and dryer areas don't.

Here in N. Mississippi, I am finding that thin CA will cure so fast on a turning lathe (about the same speed as yours) that I can't get from one end to the other of the blank before it is cured. I have to douse it with CA to keep if from sticking to the applicator (rubber gloves for me). 

But Having lived overseas and making pen in two different countries and pure observation of the location of people on this forum and their problems, or non-problems with CA, there are a "patterns" to the way that CA acts, reacts, works and doesn't work so well.

CA finishes are somewhat temp and humidity sensitive and mix in the difference in brands, freshness, and accelerator brands, it can get complicated. There is no "one" way that works well everywhere. What one considers "hot" some will say that is mild. What some say is "humid" to others is dry. 70% - 75% humidity is HUMID to me! But I have lived in the NO area and know the difference. And the difference between 70% and 90% can and will affect CA as a finish. The difference between 70% and below 50% will also affect it differently. It is a pot shoot and some people get lucky without knowing it. :biggrin:


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## NewLondon88 (Jun 19, 2012)

MattTheHat said:


> Craft foam stays wet too long for me.



Paper towel soaks up CA. Craft foam doesn't .. so it should dry about
the same as spilling a drop on something.. but wet foam just means
you're ready to put on another coat :tongue:



MattTheHat said:


> Plastic bags tend to put on the CA too thickly.



That sounds like too much CA.




MattTheHat said:


> What was causing me problems was that I was trying to do it without accelerator. That or I would try to rub the paper towel until the glue set. It would work for a coat or two, but before long I'd mess up my nice smooth surface or the paper towel would grab embedding itself into the CA.



That's where the BLO comes in!

There's a zillion ways to do a CA finish, and you'll find the one that
works for you. Other people will shake their head and look at you like
you're from Mars, because they'll do exactly what you do (or so they
think)  and it won't work for them.
BUT..  there's subtle differences in how we do it.. and those differences
make it work for us. (maybe not for anyone else) One turner here does
one of the best CA finishes I've seen with only 3 or 4 coats of Thin, a bit
of oil, paper towel .. and he rubs in that glue like a friction polish!
 No grabs, no paper towel in the glue.. and it works beautifully.

And as many times as I've seen him do it in person, that technique
doesn't work for me.


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## NC Wood Art (Jun 19, 2012)

Practice, patience & it will come. I still have the occasional issue with CA finish when I try to rush through it. Just take your time & do the 2-3 passes paper towel, plastic bag foam etc should not matter too much. Just do not run the lathe too fast I don't have vari speed but I am guessing i am under 800- sometimes I even put my hand the the hand wheel to add a little force to slow it down a slight bit more- It is my manual vari speed I guess you could say.

BH


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## jdporter99 (Jun 30, 2012)

We were in Hobby Lobby today so I asked for craft foam. I was directed to the big rolls of foam rubber used for making cushions. Even I am not dumb enough to fall for that. I can just see someone standing with a 3 inch thick piece of foam rubber with 2 drops of CA under their pen. Looke it up on their web site when I got home, now I can buy it at Michaels. Looks like Walmart and Target also have it.


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