# Shop Safety



## wolf creek knives (Jan 10, 2020)

Wow, I just got word that a good friend of mine for more than 30 years died yesterday after being electrocuted from one of his shop tools.  No details other than to say please be careful in your shop.  My friend was a wood craftsman for many years and did beautiful custom furniture.  He left behind his wife and 3 adult children.  I'm still in a state of shock.


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## WriteON (Jan 10, 2020)

So sorry to hear this. And yes to safety. There is no substitute for being aware of surroundings and safe habits.


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## magpens (Jan 10, 2020)

Sad, SaD, SAD !! . Sorry to hear this, Tom !!


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## bsshog40 (Jan 10, 2020)

Wow, Sorry Tom! My condolences to his family. I know I almost cut thru my skill saw cord not realizing it was under my path of cut. I have paid more attention to where my cords are on my cutting tools since then.


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## mark james (Jan 10, 2020)

Tom, I believe you do an annual safety check for your shop.  I do not and fully believe I should.  Given this tragedy, which I extend my condolences to his family and you as a friend, do you have a checklist of items/topics/issues that would be a suggested shop safety check?  I would be very interested in this and suspect it would be a deserved library article.


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## Curly (Jan 10, 2020)

Nothing I can say will make you feel better or help your friend's family. Condolences. 

Once you have details of what happened would you post them? It could prevent someone here doing the same.


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## Dalecamino (Jan 10, 2020)

Sorry to hear this Tom. I'm going to have a look around my shed tomorrow. Take care!


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## jttheclockman (Jan 10, 2020)

Wow my condolences also to the family. I too would be interested if you could find out the details to this. The equipment ground is there for a safety reason and if not carried all the way back to the panel then you have a potential problem. Something strange had to happen.


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## leehljp (Jan 10, 2020)

Offering prayers for your friends family and you as you miss your friend.

I do some electrical re-wiring on occasion, as well as testing outlets for friends and family, and have not had formal training, but I have talked with several friends/people (qualified in the electrical field) at length about safety precautions in wiring and testing. That stays first and foremost in my mind. 

Electrical is not to be taken for granted, especially if working with 220 or the high voltage wood burning - Deadly. And 220v equipment that malfunction create their own problems with electrical discharge.


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## PenHog (Jan 11, 2020)

I'm sorry for your loss.


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## Woodchipper (Jan 11, 2020)

Sorry for the loss of a friend and our condolences to the family. Please let us know what happened. Would be a note for all of us to follow.


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## Buckmark13 (Jan 11, 2020)

Very sorry for your loss! 

Thoughts and prayers are with you and them!


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## MPVic (Jan 11, 2020)

Tom, thank you for sharing this tragic news - it signals us all to be diligent about our power tools.
Heartfelt prayers & condolences for the family and for your personal loss.


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## wolf creek knives (Jan 11, 2020)

I got word that Ronny was electrocuted using an engraving machine.  I've seen them used on TV where you plug an electric source onto a piece of wood and then it burns a random pattern based on the grain.  I'm not sure what they're called but I know that he built a lot of custom conference room tables and the last time I talked with him he was in the process of doing a custom one.  The tool was new to him and I can only guess he wasn't familiar with it.


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## walshjp17 (Jan 11, 2020)

Tom, sorry for your loss and condolences to Ronny's family.  Sounds like he was doing Lichtenberg Fractals.


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## wolf creek knives (Jan 11, 2020)

mark james said:


> Tom, I believe you do an annual safety check for your shop.  I do not and fully believe I should.  Given this tragedy, which I extend my condolences to his family and you as a friend, do you have a checklist of items/topics/issues that would be a suggested shop safety check?  I would be very interested in this and suspect it would be a deserved library article.



Mark, I don't have a formal list per se but I start with one tool at a time.  I break it down into pieces like the band saw, I'll inspect each wheel to make sure none of the spokes are cracked, check the bearings for wear and check the rubber tires to make sure there are no cracks.  I also make sure the track the tires fit in have no cracks or missing metal.  I make sure the tension spring is still good and if not replace it.  When it comes to the motors I thoroughly check all the exposed wires to make sure they are still sound.  I'm not an electrician so if I think there might be something wrong with the motor, off to the shop it goes.  I look at the wiring and if I think I see something I either replace the switch or have a professional take a look at it.  Every piece and part of the tool is looked at for any kind of wear or cracks in the metal.  And don't for get about the blades, if they're bad get new ones and throw the old ones out.  I also vacuum, dust and clean the entire machine I think you get the idea about the tools.  You many not find everything but it's a start.  One thing I know people forget is the outlet/switch boxes.  I take every face plate off, one at a time, and check for saw dust and dust in general and I make sure to vacuum them out and inspect the connections.  Takes me on average about 1-2 hours per machine but it's a good way to give the machine a good once over.  I apply this concept to all my tools.  And like I've mentioned before, it's a great way to get rid of all the clutter and junk you don't need.  My entire shop, not just tools, gets looked at including the shelf racks.  Hope this helps and maybe I see if I can't get a formal type list done in the future.


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## wolf creek knives (Jan 11, 2020)

walshjp17 said:


> Tom, sorry for your loss and condolences to Ronny's family.  Sounds like he was doing Lichtenberg Fractals.



That sure sounds like the machine.  I know I won't be getting one.


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## bsshog40 (Jan 11, 2020)

Stats claim that "Unintentional Accidents" is the #3 cause of deaths. This does not include any Traffic, Fall or even accidental poisoning cases. And the majority of those are males. I still catch myself saying, "I don't need to read the manual, I know how it works". Of course, I have gotten better on equipment that has the potential to badly hurt or even kill a person. Over-confidence is the fastest way to an injury!


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## Gregf (Jan 11, 2020)

"Unintentional Accidents" ?  What is an intentional accident?


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## Dalecamino (Jan 11, 2020)

I just did a search on this tool out of curiosity and found this.









						Death prompts ban on fractal burning | Woodworking Network
					

Wood turning association bans high-voltage Lichtenberg wood burning process after deaths reported.




					www.woodworkingnetwork.com
				




I won't be buying one either.


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## ramaroodle (Jan 11, 2020)

That is sad.  My first thought was, "I wonder if he was doing the Lichtenberg thing?"  So sorry for your loss.  Was it a homebuilt unit or one of the commercial ones?  If you must do that buy a commercial unit, better yet, don't do it.


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## wolf creek knives (Jan 11, 2020)

ramaroodle said:


> That is sad.  My first thought was, "I wonder if he was doing the Lichtenberg thing?"  So sorry for your loss.  Was it a homebuilt unit or one of the commercial ones?  If you must do that buy a commercial unit, better yet, don't do it.



I was told he had bought it but I don't know where or from whom.  Knowing Ronny the way I did I'm sure he was in a hurry to get something done and it bit him...really badly.  He was a stickler for customer service and I used to tell him all the time to slow down.  Funny story, when I first met him and he found out I was a woodworker he showed me this really nasty scar on his lower arm.  Very brazenly he asks me "you know where I got this"?  Obviously I didn't and he told me in his younger years he was working at a saw mill and piece of wood shot back just as he was reaching across something and a piece about 2'x2' shot into his arm, didn't go through but he had to pull it out.  His worst fear was not the surgery he went through but the stupid Tetanus shot.  Boy he and I could tell some stories from way back.  And what a craftsman, you could give him a fossilized turd and he could make a master piece out of it.


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## Woodchipper (Jan 11, 2020)

Dalecamino said:


> I just did a search on this tool out of curiosity and found this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The American Association of Woodturners has banned this procedure for demonstrations, instructional videos, etc. as being too dangerous. One might find some information at the link. www.woodturner.org


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## Curly (Jan 11, 2020)

Here is a little more direct link.  




__





						Safety: Fractal Burning / Lichtenburg Burning
					






					www.woodturner.org
				




I too wondered if that was the cause but didn't want to speculate.


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## ramaroodle (Jan 11, 2020)

wolf creek knives said:


> I was told he had bought it but I don't know where or from whom.  Knowing Ronny the way I did I'm sure he was in a hurry to get something done and it bit him...really badly.  He was a stickler for customer service and I used to tell him all the time to slow down.  Funny story, when I first met him and he found out I was a woodworker he showed me this really nasty scar on his lower arm.  Very brazenly he asks me "you know where I got this"?  Obviously I didn't and he told me in his younger years he was working at a saw mill and piece of wood shot back just as he was reaching across something and a piece about 2'x2' shot into his arm, didn't go through but he had to pull it out.  His worst fear was not the surgery he went through but the stupid Tetanus shot.  Boy he and I could tell some stories from way back.  And what a craftsman, you could give him a fossilized turd and he could make a master piece out of it.


That is doubly sad and scary since he obviously knew what he was doing and triply scary if it was a commercial unit and not a homebuilt one he bought from someone. The unique end results make the process very tempting to do which is why people try it.  I've seen people get similar results on pens and other small items using jpegs of fractal images and laser engravers instead.

Again, sorry for your loss.


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## jttheclockman (Jan 11, 2020)

wolf creek knives said:


> I got word that Ronny was electrocuted using an engraving machine.  I've seen them used on TV where you plug an electric source onto a piece of wood and then it burns a random pattern based on the grain.  I'm not sure what they're called but I know that he built a lot of custom conference room tables and the last time I talked with him he was in the process of doing a custom one.  The tool was new to him and I can only guess he wasn't familiar with it.


That explains it all. Those things and that process should be outlawed. I do not care how careful you are you have open voltage flowing across wood that can jump to ground. Process looks nice when done but you are talking high voltage with the transformers they use.

https://www.woodturner.org/Woodturn...fety-Fractal-Burning-Lichtenburg-Burning.aspx


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## Curly (Jan 11, 2020)

Already put that link up JT but it bears repeating. 

I have to wonder since the project was a table, if he was reaching to the middle and he got too close making contact at the waist? At this point it doesn't matter as it doesn't change the outcome but serves as a good reminder to the rest of us as something to avoid.


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## WriteON (Jan 11, 2020)

jttheclockman said:


> That explains it all. Those things and that process should be outlawed. I do not care how careful you are you have open voltage flowing across wood that can jump to ground. Process looks nice when done but you are talking high voltage with the transformers they use.
> 
> https://www.woodturner.org/Woodturn...fety-Fractal-Burning-Lichtenburg-Burning.aspx


The warning is pretty clear. One mistake and you are dead. Dead. Personally it looks insane. And for what?


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## bsshog40 (Jan 11, 2020)

Gregf said:


> "Unintentional Accidents" ?  What is an intentional accident?


Right? Lol


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## wolf creek knives (Jan 11, 2020)

jttheclockman said:


> That explains it all. Those things and that process should be outlawed. I do not care how careful you are you have open voltage flowing across wood that can jump to ground. Process looks nice when done but you are talking high voltage with the transformers they use.
> 
> https://www.woodturner.org/Woodturn...fety-Fractal-Burning-Lichtenburg-Burning.aspx



JT, you nailed it.  Ronny was using the machine he bought with all the safety equipment needed.  Apparently the machine shorted, went to ground, and his death was the outcome.  He was making a custom table when it happened.  Tragic is all I can say


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## ramaroodle (Jan 11, 2020)

wolf creek knives said:


> JT, you nailed it.  Ronny was using the machine he bought with all the safety equipment needed.  Apparently the machine shorted, went to ground, and his death was the outcome.  He was making a custom table when it happened.  Tragic is all I can say


Everybody knows it's dangerous kinda like wingsuit flying. The problem is that people use the machine without understanding the science and potential danger and the proper steps to take to avoid accidents. None of the utube videos address that other than a cursory aside and don't go into real depth.  On any forum when this comes up woodworkers say it looks beautiful and woodworkers who are retired electrical workers say "you must be crazy!"


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## TellicoTurning (Jan 11, 2020)

I think the Lichtenberg Fractals burns are interesting and beautiful, but as Tom said I wou't be trying it anytime soon -- like NEVER --  when I was in the Navy I cross joined a repererator machine (a machine that punches telex tapes) leads and sent about 300 volts through my elbows... fortunately the current was relatively low, but when I got up off the desk that sat about 6 feet away from where I was making the re-perf change, I had knocked out every circuit in the communication room, including the lights, and somebody hit me in the elbows with a baseball bat.  The fact that the circuits blew out likely saved my life.  There was a place where the re-perf maching hit the base case which was a little over 1/8" thick metal and blew a quarter sized hole in the case.  I don't mess with electricity much other than changing a light bulb.


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## mbroberg (Jan 11, 2020)

Safety can NEVER be stressed too much.  You and your friend's family are in my prayers.


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## WriteON (Jan 11, 2020)

TellicoTurning said:


> I don't mess with electricity much other than changing a light bulb.


I never messed with electric, natural gas or car brakes. And never will.


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## bsshog40 (Jan 11, 2020)

I do all my own electrical work in my home and shop. It is not something to ever take shortcuts with and safety is a must 110% of the time.


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## jttheclockman (Jan 11, 2020)

I am an electrician for 43 years and no way I am doing that stuff and I could be careful as can be but that potential is always there. You learn to respect what electricity can do. I have seen my share of oops and stupid stuff. This to me falls in the stupid category. It may look nice as I said but at what cost.


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## TonyL (Jan 12, 2020)

beyond tragic...especially with all of the published warnings. we are all on one unintentional careless move from hurting ourselves.
Prayers and continued health and safety to all.


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## wolf creek knives (Jan 12, 2020)

bsshog40 said:


> I do all my own electrical work in my home and shop. It is not something to ever take shortcuts with and safety is a must 110% of the time.



When we had the off grid solar system installed I watched the installer like a hawk to see what he was doing.  He became a friend and I was putting the shop together I asked him to give me a hand with the electrical.  He showed me what I needed to do and ran me through a couple of the circuits.  Once he felt I had it down he told me to call him with any questions.  The day I did the work he called up that night to make sure everything went okay but more importantly he wanted to check to make sure I was okay, which I was.  He came out and inspected all my work and gave me an A+ which I was pretty happy about.


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## WriteON (Jan 12, 2020)

TonyL said:


> beyond tragic...especially with all of the published warnings. we are all on one unintentional careless move from hurting ourselves.
> Prayers and continued health and safety to all.


It’s a good time to take inventory. How are our safety habits. Eyes, face, ears, lungs. No jewelry. Loose clothing. Long hair( not me).  Are you protecting yourself?


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## wolf creek knives (Jan 12, 2020)

WriteON said:


> It’s a good time to take inventory. How are our safety habits. Eyes, face, ears, lungs. No jewelry. Loose clothing. Long hair( not me).  Are you protecting yourself?



Frank (WriteOn) is right on )) here.  I know I get complacent with my tools that sets me up for an accident or worst.  While in training in the Navy they trained, actually they beat it into us, to get into a routine so that everyday we did the same thing and we knew what every other team members was doing at any given time.  I carried that over in my working life but I've gotten complacent since retiring. I've decided after this loss to reestablish that habit.  Check and recheck and check again.  I want to be around for another 30 years.  By the way, Ronny was just 61.


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## WriteON (Jan 12, 2020)

wolf creek knives said:


> I want to be around for another 30 years.


Stay around for spite WC.  Add to safety.... I try to be aware of what is behind me. A chair, stool. Tool box. I worry about backing up and tripping over it.  Came close repeatedly.


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## MDWine (Jan 14, 2020)

I'm sorry for your loss Tom, and my prayers go out for your friend and his family and his friends.  

The Lichtenberg process is beautiful, and VERY SCARY in my opinion.  We had a demonstrator do it in our turning club.  They made it look easy, but the mention of how much electricity passes through it scared the stuff out of me.  I just won't risk it.  I unplug everything but the lights when I leave my shop...  EVERYTHING!  (Even the dang radio!)

I hope we can all remember to be safe, and do that mental check before/during/after shop time.


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## TellicoTurning (Jan 14, 2020)

MDWine said:


> I'm sorry for your loss Tom, and my prayers go out for your friend and his family and his friends.
> 
> The Lichtenberg process is beautiful, and VERY SCARY in my opinion.  We had a demonstrator do it in our turning club.  They made it look easy, but the mention of how much electricity passes through it scared the stuff out of me.  I just won't risk it.  I unplug everything but the lights when I leave my shop...  EVERYTHING!  (Even the dang radio!)
> 
> I hope we can all remember to be safe, and do that mental check before/during/after shop time.



ME too, takes me at least 10 minutes to shut down the shop... going around to double check that every thing is off and/or unplugged.


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## howsitwork (Jan 14, 2020)

Tom

really sorry to just catch up on this and my sympathies to his family. i strongly suggest to one and all to get an earth leakage breaker installed in your workshop supply. This could save your life! I’m not qualified to say exactly how it works but I understand it compares the incoming electric current with the outgoing and if there’s any difference between the two cuts the power , as the missing current must have gone somewhere  . We use higher voltages over here ( 240 v ) compared to your 110v systems  but all my workshops have had these fitted whilst setting them up.  

Only pain is if you touch the neutral wire even with the live power off  the static charge you carry can be enough to grip the breaker and turn all the house power off ( at which point you become very unpopular with SWMBO )


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## wolf creek knives (Jan 14, 2020)

howsitwork said:


> Tom
> 
> really sorry to just catch up on this and my sympathies to his family. i strongly suggest to one and all to get an earth leakage breaker installed in your workshop supply. This could save your life! I’m not qualified to say exactly how it works but I understand it compares the incoming electric current with the outgoing and if there’s any difference between the two cuts the power , as the missing current must have gone somewhere  . We use higher voltages over here ( 240 v ) compared to your 110v systems  but all my workshops have had these fitted whilst setting them up.
> 
> Only pain is if you touch the neutral wire even with the live power off  the static charge you carry can be enough to grip the breaker and turn all the house power off ( at which point you become very unpopular with SWMBO )



I've never heard of the earth leakage breaker.  I wonder if they have them in the U.S.  Hey JT, you know about these?  I'd like to know more about them.  Thanks for sharing


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## jttheclockman (Jan 14, 2020)

wolf creek knives said:


> I've never heard of the earth leakage breaker.  I wonder if they have them in the U.S.  Hey JT, you know about these?  I'd like to know more about them.  Thanks for sharing


He is talking about GFCI measures incoming and outgoing currents. I use many GFCI breakers for my shop and use outlets for rest of the house where needed.

https://spyrkaelectric.com/ground-fault-circuit-breaker-work/


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## howsitwork (Jan 15, 2020)

John and Tom

yes having checked the link that’s the thing I mean. Ian is SERIOUSLY WORTH FITTING one or more of these to your house and workshop. I have miniature breakers in both house and workshop and  earth leakage protection or GFCI as you call it on incoming main supplies to both. 
They’re so good as I said even static from you touching the neutral wire with the power to the circuit turned off , can trigger a shut down. This knowledge has been found by trial and ear ache as SWMBO was watching one of her favourite programmes on TV whilst I was adding an additional light in the workshop and yes ALL the power went off 

I now do things like that having checked what she’s doing first !


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