# Nib help



## triw51 (Apr 19, 2013)

I have some Baron fountion pen kits and I ordered some with fine points and some with medium points.  When I look at the nib all I see is the words "Iridium Point Germany"  Where is the nib marked for the size tip?
Do I have to take the nib assembly apart?


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## OKLAHOMAN (Apr 19, 2013)

They are not marked as to point at all. What bran of nib?


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## ed4copies (Apr 19, 2013)

William,
The Heritance nibs that you added as an "upgrade" are packaged separately in a small jewelry box.  

You remove the "Iridium point Germany" and replace it with your Heritance nib.
These are not marked fine or medium, but the box lid will say which is in  the box.

Hope this helps!!
Ed


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## triw51 (Apr 20, 2013)

but on the kits I got in trade how do I tell if the nib is med or fine?


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## ed4copies (Apr 20, 2013)

Very few kits have fine nibs.  If they are barons, here is what Berea's website says:
The Baron Fountain pen is extremely easy to make and includes a high  quality, medium nib with a standard ink converter and ink cartridge.

I added the color.


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## OKLAHOMAN (Apr 20, 2013)

For general reference Bock nibs and I think most European manufactured nibs here are the tip measurments measured up from the bottom of the tip .05MM

EF 0.45-0.55 MM .017IN-.021 IN
F 0.60-0.70MM .0231N-.027IN
M 0.80-0.90MM .031IN-.035IN
B 1.00-1.10MM .039IN-.043IN

I think Asian will be different


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## ed4copies (Apr 20, 2013)

I believe that F, M, etc are defined differently in Europe and the USA, so I would surmise there is no "right" definition of the size.

Asia probably makes the nibs to the specs given to them, since little is marketed under an Asian name.


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## OKLAHOMAN (Apr 20, 2013)

Ed while I agree that people will define EX,F and M ect. differently the measurments for these varie only by a tenth of a MM, my stroke will give a broader line with a fine nib than most others as first I'm left handed which means I push the nib vs a right handed person that pulls the nib across paper, second I'm also heavey handed where as most fountain pen users are not heavy handed. Your writing style will determine your line in combo with your nib. The OP wanted to know how to tell a fine from a med etc so the measurments I gave are a guide only to give a starting point as most upgraded nibs come from Germany and these measurments cover a good % of upgraded nibs sold by vendors here, also good info for the person who might mix up his/hers fine with their medium as has been asked here before.


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## ed4copies (Apr 20, 2013)

I have no argument with ANY system.  Just advice against taking any yardstick and trying to apply it, universally.

I watched that discussion unfold at a show in Washington DC once---everyone was an expert, yet there was no "common ground".  

I adopted the answer, "Here, try this and see if it is what you are looking for".  Then go up or down, based on this buyer's answer.  Try to avoid categorizing, since the customers' version can be very different from yours.

When separating at home, I agree with Roy, in part.  Just look at the nibs, there is a visible difference from "fine" to "medium".  If they are Iridium point--Germany, there is about a 85% chance they are "medium" (according to some manufacturer's spec).


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## triw51 (Apr 21, 2013)

How do you let a customer try out a fountain pen with out loading a cartridge?


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## Texatdurango (Apr 22, 2013)

triw51 said:


> How do you let a customer try out a fountain pen with out loading a cartridge?


William, here is my take on all of this.

I think I have been where you are at right now so can feel your pain.  A few years ago I had all my nibs separated in a plastic container similar to a tackle box with cotton pads lining the bottoms and all was well until the day I tipped over the box and 150+ nibs got mixed.

Me trying to determine if a nib is a fine or a medium by simply looking at it is a waste of time so here is what I do.

I separated my nibs by brand, Bock and Heritance, gold plate and stainless.  I then used calipers to get a rough measurement and sort by tip size.  It doesn't matter what nibs you are measuring, where they were made or what they are made of, just select a common place up from the tip of the nib and measure the widths.  *You will quickly start to see them falling into groups and don't really need to be concerned if one nib measures .026" and another measures .028".*

Using the Bock chart below You will see the low and high limits of each size nib, I use these *as a guideline* when determining which pile a certain nib goes into.

*How I used to do it:*
If a nib measured .025" I put it in the fine pile, if one measured .033" it went into the medium pile.  When at a show and a customer wanted a fine, I would reach into the "FINE" compartment , the same for a medium. 

*How I do it now:*
Once I learned that more times than not, the proper fitting feed determined the line a nib would put down, I started keeping Bock nibs on Bock feeds and Heritance nibs on Heritance feeds and sorted the feed/nib units together.  *I measure the nibs while seated on the feeds. * You can actually put a fine nib on a feed that is a few millimeters wider than it was designed for and it will actually separate the tines enough that it writes like a medium, all other factors considered equal.







*As far as inking pens*, I display the various models I offer for potential customers to pick up and handle and I have inked "Demos" which are identical to the models I offer for potential customers to try out on a nice pad of paper.  If a potential customer likes the way one demo writes over the next, we focus on which color/style they want.  I usually display my pens with "Throw away" nibs and will only switch the throw away nib with a nice nib on an actual "for sale" pen when the customer either indicates they will buy it OR I think they will buy it.  I don't ink pens otherwise and this has worked fine for me.

To me dipping a nib in a bottle of ink doesn't give you a real sense of how the pen will write once loaded with ink in a converter or cartridge relying on the feed to supply ink to the nib.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it! :wink:


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## Dan_F (Apr 29, 2013)

Have a bottle of ink, and simply dip the pen in it - it will wick up enough to write a paragraph or two. You can have a spare nib assembly or two on hand, to screw into the pens for trial, then substitute a new one if they want to buy the pen and want a brand new nib in it. If they are smart, they will say no to that offer, as a new one may not be properly aligned and tuned. This is assuming that the sample nib is properly aligned and tuned. 

Dan


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## PenMan1 (Apr 29, 2013)

The only "kit" nibs that I'm aware of that are marked are the Dayacom kits.

On the Dayacom sets, there are three lines of type below the "copyright" symbol.
The First line reads "Dayacom" (even though Dayacom is MADE in Taiwan),
The Second line reads "Germany"
The Third line reads either "F", "M" or "B".

After making THOUSANDS of Dayacom sets, I have only seen "F" on the third line maybe 10 times. I've seen "B" (which should mean "broad") twice. Interestingly enough, EVEN AFTER EXAMINING the points with a jeweler's loupe (I spilled a nib box, once- DON'T EVER DO THAT), I could see NO difference in the Dayacom sets marked F, M or B. SO, I tried them....and saw NO difference it the width of a pair of parrell lines.

At one point, both Schmidt and JoWo (Miester nibs) did mark the nibs. Schmidt is a little finicky about hopping onto other feeds, and my customers are not big fans of the JoWo (except for the broad and italic) that I just simply DON'T know their current markings, as I have no reason to buy them.

Lately, I just order Bock nibs and DUCT TAPE the lid shut on the containers that I well mark. With bock, YOU CAN see the difference pretty easily with a 17X jeweler's loupe. I suggest you keep a loupe in your nib box.

Respectfully submitted.


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