# Dentists - money pit!



## maxwell_smart007 (Dec 10, 2008)

As some of you know, I'm a supply teacher.  That means that I don't know from day to day if I'm going to get paid or not...basically, I'm an on-call teacher! 

I went to the Dentist today, and I could not believe how much everything costs.  A mouthguard to stop my ridiculous teeth grinding is 500...surgery to replace some bone loss that's threatening my last molar on the left side, a thousand...surgery to remove my abscessed wisdom teeth - 2 grand...anasthetic extra...teeth need cleaning...might need a filling...man, it all adds up!  

Initial patient visit was 200 dollars!  I have now exhausted my entire budget for dental work, for a fifteen minute visit!  

Does anyone know a good source for dental insurance?  I looked online, and most limit your payments in the first year, so that your premiums cost more than your payments...

I can't afford to have many of these procedures, and I apparently need all of them, so insurance is a must.  Hope someone knows a good dental insurance provider that they can tell me about...not sure if it'll work in Canada, but it's worth a shot!  

Andrew


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## ed4copies (Dec 10, 2008)

Go to Pennsylvania and do a crappy job of robbing a store.  Get caught.  Get a LOUSY lawyer in the public defender's office.  Go to prison for a couple years.

NOW the taxpayers will graciously allow you to get first class dental work, done by a first-class dentist with whom you will be able to discuss penmaking. (Ever notice how a dentist strikes up a conversation when he has BOTH of his hands in your mouth???)

No charge for this valuable advice, unless you get dental insurance.  THEN, I will be sending you a bill for "consultation", which your insurance should cover.

You're welcome!!


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## DocStram (Dec 10, 2008)

Darn ... ed beat me to it!!  GMTA  :biggrin::biggrin:


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## Russianwolf (Dec 10, 2008)

go to the drug store and look for a "night guard" or try this

http://www.amazon.com/Doctor%27s-Night-Guard-Advanced-Comfort/dp/B001HOIQZ4/ref=pd_sbs_hpc_25

I'll split the difference with you :wink:


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## rjwolfe3 (Dec 10, 2008)

Get em all yanked and get some dentures.  Will cost ya a lot less in the long run.


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## THarvey (Dec 10, 2008)

Wow.

A lot of people in the US are pointing to Canada as an example of affordable healthcare.

I am not sure this is an example I want to follow.


As for Ed's recommendation....ROTFL :laugh:


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## cowchaser (Dec 10, 2008)

I know all about the teeth grinding. I do it and my wife says it isn't usually to bad. Bad part is sometimes she'll ask what's bothering me when I would think she wouldn't know. She says I grind my teeth really bad when something is bothering me. Huh, the odd things you pick up on after years of marriage. 

As far as dental insurance, I don't have first hand knowledge, but a buddy of mine uses blue cross blue shield and says it's not to bad.


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## Daniel (Dec 10, 2008)

Holy Cow! that is some outrageous dental charges. I just had bone work, dentures, and 14 teeth removed for a grand total of less than 2500. you can get it done even far cheaper in Mexico. There is one town just across the border that is just dental office after dental office for about two blocks. 200 dollars for an office visit. I paid 50.


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## Woodlvr (Dec 10, 2008)

Ed do you have a particular dentist in mind? :')


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## ed4copies (Dec 10, 2008)

Really not fair to pick on him WHILE he is at work!!!

But YES, I do. 

Pennsylvania's finest CAJUN!!!!!

Could only be one!


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## Mudder (Dec 10, 2008)

ed4copies said:


> Go to Pennsylvania and do a crappy job of robbing a store.  Get caught.  Get a LOUSY lawyer in the public defender's office.  Go to prison for a couple years.
> 
> NOW the taxpayers will graciously allow you to get first class dental work, done by a first-class dentist with whom you will be able to discuss penmaking. (Ever notice how a dentist strikes up a conversation when he has BOTH of his hands in your mouth???)
> 
> ...




Ed,

He's from Canada so they'll probably deport him first :wink:

Secondly, If you try to rob a liquor store your probability of getting shot is very high. Perhaps a McDonald's would be safer.

Finally, I've talked to William and I fear that the sadistic old codger would drill a hole in my tooth big enough for my brain to leak out just for fun.  Also, I don't think he's allowed to give out any good drugs :biggrin:


(I kid my friend William because he has a good sense of humor)


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## Russianwolf (Dec 10, 2008)

Mudder said:


> Finally, I've talked to William and I fear that the sadistic old codger would drill a hole in my tooth big enough for my brain to leak out just for fun.  Also, I don't think he's allowed to give out any good drugs :biggrin:
> 
> 
> (I kid my friend William because he has a good sense of humor)



So what you're saying is that Steve Martin's character in Little Shop of Horrors was based on our own dear Cav?


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## maxwell_smart007 (Dec 10, 2008)

I didn't want that to sound like a rant about dentists in general, by the way!  My dentist just seems to be pricing her work rather highly...it's way above what I can pay, so I was hoping someone knows something about dental insurance...

Maybe a visit to the good ol' USA is in order, if your prices are lower than that...to get everything done that she recommended (at her cost) would cost about 1/3 of my yearly salary!  

We have an AWESOME health care system up here, but it in absolutely no way relates to dental work - that's all privatized, and I really wish it wasn't...

So, Cav, I'm not directing this at you!  I can't speak for the rest of these jokers, though! :wink:


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## devowoodworking (Dec 10, 2008)

Andrew, I really feel for you...teacher's should have dental coverage!  Quite a noble profession and you're not nearly paid enough to do it


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## ed4copies (Dec 10, 2008)

*Backpedalling!!!*



maxwell_smart007 said:


> I didn't want that to sound like a rant about dentists in general, by the way! My dentist just seems to be pricing her work rather highly...it's way above what I can pay, so I was hoping someone knows something about dental insurance...
> 
> Maybe a visit to the good ol' USA is in order, if your prices are lower than that...to get everything done that she recommended (at her cost) would cost about 1/3 of my yearly salary!
> 
> ...


 

See headline, Cav!!


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## maxwell_smart007 (Dec 10, 2008)

ed4copies said:


> See headline, Cav!!



:biggrin:


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## Skye (Dec 10, 2008)

devowoodworking said:


> Andrew, I really feel for you...teacher's should have dental coverage!  Quite a noble profession and you're not nearly paid enough to do it



Oh, they have it, it's just the worst form of it possible. My wife needs a root canal, the state's insurance won't pay $700 of the root canal, so that's out of pocket. What a joke.


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## SuperDave (Dec 10, 2008)

I almost hate to post this...

My wife is a teacher and we opted for the Kaiser Plan this year. I have not been to the dentist in two and a half years. I had a broken molar that was partially repaired under ODS (BIG TIME JOKE COMPANY) and took two years to just pay my portion.

Went to the Kaiser dental office and had full set of x-rays and impressions. Cost $10 co-pay.

Second visit for full cleaning and evaluation. Cost $10 co-pay.

Third visit to finish the preparations for a crown on the broken molar from two years ago. Cost: $10 co-pay.

Fourth visit to have crown installed and two fillings: Cost: $10 co-pay.

I had two molars removed 30 years ago and the Kaiser dentist said their coverage for implants is 50%, so as to save the lower teeth from erupting and needing replaced. Many plans have no implant coverage.

Best coverage we have ever had. I know that getting everything done will improve my health as well, since a lot of health problems are attributed to oral issues.

One last point: Many dental collages and dental schools will do dental work as part of their curriculum. Sometimes its free and most of the time it is at a significantly reduced rate. Expect to be on a waiting list, but it can work well for many people.

D


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## gerryr (Dec 10, 2008)

ed4copies said:


> Really not fair to pick on him WHILE he is at work!!!
> 
> But YES, I do.
> 
> ...



Is that because after he moved in they decided it wasn't a good idea to allow any more cajuns in?:rotfl:

(ducks and runs for cover)


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## wood-of-1kind (Dec 10, 2008)

Andrew, you are NOT paying for valued work that is done by the(Canadian) denstist. You are paying the "monopoly" fees that the CDA imposes. Would suggest that you find a good Canadian dentist who is willing to accept hard "cold" cash and do the work outside the posted fees CDA fees.


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## ed4copies (Dec 10, 2008)

HHHHHhnnnmmmmmmm,

I think I hear the discordant notes of disgruntled Cannucks!!!

(I thought we (USA) had a monopoly on disguntlement!--- can we charge them royalties???)


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## Skye (Dec 10, 2008)

I can see it now, PR dentures....


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## sam (Dec 10, 2008)

You cold get a dentist like mine who has a weakness for pens. When I found this out he bought 3 and credited my bill. After the credit was applied, he told me my prices were too low. That was a mistake he should not have made. Those price tags are cheap & really easy to change. He still has bought(or bartered) every time that I have been back & taken in new inventory for him to admire.


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## les-smith (Dec 10, 2008)

Yeah, dentists are high dollar. I'd go get some "grillz'. You'd be lookin sweet and they come in gold, platinum, and some have diamonds.


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## wolftat (Dec 10, 2008)

Sounds like you just need to go to a bar and mouth off to a couple of brawlers, that should take care of the tooth problem, then when you are in the ambulance, tell them your name but use the dentists name, that should take care of him.


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## wdcav1952 (Dec 10, 2008)

Ed, Al, Tim, Mike(1), Scott, Mike(2), and Gerry,

I am reminded of the old quote that begins with "With friends like these...." :wink:

If anyone chooses the advice of Ed, just remember that I don't work in mental wards!

I tell people I have the perfect job:  I get to hurt people, I get paid for it, and it is LEGAL!!!!  (Some of my patients had two of three of these factors in their line of work.  )

Now, for those who prefer to avoid rants, please avoid my next posting on the subject of dentists!


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## altaciii (Dec 10, 2008)

It may not be worth the trip, but I have found very good dentists and pricing south of the border, in Mexico.  I realize it may not be cost effective but you asked........


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## woodboys (Dec 10, 2008)

My sister goes to Mexicali Mexico for her dental work. Seems their pharmacy and Doctors are cheaper there then it is here even without the Insurance. But at least here I know that the FDA or whoever covers the Doctors and Dentist make sure the Doctors are legit and sanitary. How sanitary can a place be if you can't drink the water?


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## RMB (Dec 10, 2008)

I just got some work done at a dental clinic. I really don't know how it works, but I got 4 fillings done for $95 each, and my wife got a root canal and a couple other things for around 600. That was far less than the first denstist we went to. He also happened to be a great dentist. Maybe Canada has similar clinics, I don't know.


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## wdcav1952 (Dec 10, 2008)

Please bear in mind I consider Andrew to be a fine person and the following diatribe is not aimed at him.  I come from a long line of school teachers.  In fact, when my father resigned himself that I was not interested in becoming a medical doctor, his second choice for me was that I get a PhD in Biology and replace him as head of the department at the college where he taught for over 30 years.  Instead, I chose to become a "mechanic working in spit." :wink:

With regards to dentistry, there are those whose prices are outrageous compared to other practitioners.  At least here in the US, comparison shopping is not a bad idea.  I cannot speak as to the system in Canada.  As far as dentistry in Mexico, it is not regulated as US dentistry is, so "you pays your peso' and you takes your chances."  I have seen good dentistry from Mexico, and I have seen horror stories from there as well.

One of the reasons I left private practice for the Public Health Service was the constant battle over fees.  OSHA and other regulatory agencies mandated a number of changes, some very necessary and others pure drivel.  These changes made for a big increase in maintaining a private practice.  The public welcomed the regulations, but hated the fact that dental fees increased.  Unfortunately some people who have never owned a business seem to believe that all fees go straight into the dentist's pocket, ignoring the costs of supplies, staff, insurance, required continuing education, real estate for the office, and so on and so on.

Dentists are very often blamed when the patient's insurance does not cover the entire bill.  The dentist is not a party to the agreement between the patient's employer and the insurance company.  The level of coverage an employer provides can be considered a measure of the level of importance the employer assigns to dentistry.  Like many things in this world, some insurance plans are better than others.

Whether we like it or not, dental and medical practices are businesses that provide a living for the practitioners and their staff.  Businesses need to be profitable, whether they are involved in health care or retail sales.  It is not uncommon for patients to have treatment done, and then ask if they can pay next week.  Not a charge card, just a "promise" to pay.  Just for fun, go to Walmart and load a cart to overflowing with everything you could want.  After the cashier totals your purchase, ask if you can return next week to pay for your cart full of goods.  Walmart, as a multi-billion corporation does NOT allow that, yet it is relatively common for people to ask that of a dentist or physician because everyone knows they are rich.

Again, I understand that there are good, bad and indifferent dentists, just as there are in any profession.  Does dentistry generally provide a good living?  Yes it does.  People select their vocations for various reasons of their own choosing.  For me, I am incredibly fortunate to have chosen a profession that is personally satisfying, provides a decent income, and is one I still love after 31 plus years.

Rant over, you may now return to your normal programing!


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## Mudder (Dec 11, 2008)

wdcav1952 said:


> Please bear in mind I consider Andrew to be a fine person and the following diatribe is not aimed at him.  I come from a long line of school teachers.  In fact, when my father resigned himself that I was not interested in becoming a medical doctor, his second choice for me was that I get a PhD in Biology and replace him as head of the department at the college where he taught for over 30 years.  Instead, I chose to become a "mechanic working in spit." :wink:
> 
> With regards to dentistry, there are those whose prices are outrageous compared to other practitioners.  At least here in the US, comparison shopping is not a bad idea.  I cannot speak as to the system in Canada.  As far as dentistry in Mexico, it is not regulated as US dentistry is, so "you pays your peso' and you takes your chances."  I have seen good dentistry from Mexico, and I have seen horror stories from there as well.
> 
> ...




Very well written William.


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## ed4copies (Dec 11, 2008)

Nah, Dental propoganda!!!

Nearly all medical professionals CHOOSE their careers because they want to help people. NOT because they want to keep books for a corporation!

Over the years, I have watched them "run" their offices to achieve a profit. The ones that are most successful hire an office manager and allow her (usually) to keep them profitable. This is, normally, the most successful.

My friend Cav has found the other successful method -- work for someone who is responsible for making billing decisions. This allows him to do what HE enjoys as well as providing him a good living. The only downside is, he is a government employee, so we all detest him for being lazy (since I've been on the IAP, I've found there ARE exceptions to this rule - Cav and Doc among them)

Now, to be more serious, be careful if you "comparison shop". As a small businessperson, I have no dental insurance. Dawn called three places for a quote a couple years ago for a procedure she needed. Picked the one that gave her the lowest (over $1000 for less than 4 hours work) and had it done. They billed her (and she had to pay before she left) about 25% more than the quote. When she protested, they said the quote was not binding since they had not SEEN her. At the time, we thought professionals were ethical enough to mention any "variables" on the phone, we now realize that is not ALWAYS the case.

Shop carefully!!!


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## scotian12 (Dec 11, 2008)

Andrew...I would second what SuperDave has said. In Halifax, Canada, we have a Dental College at Dalhousie University. They do take on patients for free or a low cost to help new dentist train. Check with your local dental colleges to see if there is a waiting list and go from there.


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## devowoodworking (Dec 11, 2008)

Thanks for the tip Darrell, I had no idea 'Dal' had that sort of program:wink:


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## wolftat (Dec 11, 2008)

scotian12 said:


> Andrew...I would second what SuperDave has said. In Halifax, Canada, we have a Dental College at Dalhousie University. They do take on patients for free or a low cost to help new dentist train. Check with your local dental colleges to see if there is a waiting list and go from there.


 No offense meant, but does the term Guinnea Pig mean anything here? I would rather have Cav do my work while he is listening to Ed and Al(all red faced and shaking mad)....LOL:biggrin:


Actually, it might not be a bad thing, the students are probably well monitored when they are touching aaaa .....breathing person.


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## ed4copies (Dec 11, 2008)

In Milwaukee, there is Marquette Dental School.  One of the prominent attys. in Racine drives 50 miles to use them.  He says he can't find the same level of expertise anywhere else - one dentist and two students watching his every move.

I don't know what they charge.


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## Mudder (Dec 11, 2008)

wolftat said:


> No offense meant, but does the term Guinnea Pig mean anything here?



No Neil, that term means nothing to me, however we have another term, Guinea Pig that does :biggrin:


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## amosfella (Dec 11, 2008)

Go to some tropical paradise.  Dental work for $200-350, enjoy your vacation.  including flights from toronto, probably cheaper to get the vacation and the dental work in the same package.
many of the dentists in those tropical paradises are better than the dentists here, or so my uncle (who was the prof of dentistry at the U of M) says.


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## wolftat (Dec 11, 2008)

Mudder said:


> No Neil, that term means nothing to me, however we have another term, Guinea Pig that does :biggrin:


 Great...just what I need... the spelling and grammar police.

 We are going to have to go out back:hammer:.  Ooops sorry, wrong thread:redface:


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## SuperDave (Dec 11, 2008)

wolftat said:


> No offense meant, but does the term Guinnea Pig mean anything here?



... would that be be the same as a fat drunk?     Oooops, my bad, that's a Guinness Pig!:biggrin:


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## SuperDave (Dec 11, 2008)

ed4copies said:


> In Milwaukee, there is Marquette Dental School - one dentist and two students watching his every move.
> 
> I don't know what they charge.



... I hear they get to keep the "Operation" game they were issued at admission...:biggrin:


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## maxwell_smart007 (Dec 11, 2008)

I don't know if there's a dental school nearby, but apparently I need an oral surgeon...

I wonder why dentists aren't on the Canadian medical spectrum...we have great health care if you're sick, but if your teeth are trouble, then you're on your own...that's always been a puzzle to me.  

I think that it's mostly because I cannot go to the dentist that often, that I need so much done now.  Prevention is better than cure, but when you have to decide between food and teeth to eat it with, it's a tough choice!  Things aren't that bad yet, thankfully!  I've dealt with these abscessed teeth for a few years now - a few more won't kill me!  

In the meantime, I'm sure there's a GOOD dental insurance plan out there...and I'll find it eventually!  

And just to reiterate - I wasn't trying to say that DENTISTS are a money pit...but my mouth apparently is right now!  I've got a smile like Shrek! :wink:


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## amosfella (Dec 11, 2008)

As I said earlier, vacation.  I know a guy who was telling me that I dentist in the US quoted him $13K for a job, and he got the same job down somewhere for around $800.  I can ask where as I don't remember.  He said the dentist did a really good job too.


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## wdcav1952 (Dec 11, 2008)

amosfella said:


> As I said earlier, vacation.  I know a guy who was telling me that I dentist in the US quoted him $13K for a job, and he got the same job down somewhere for around $800.  I can ask where as I don't remember.  He said the dentist did a really good job too.



That is an excellent idea!  You probably should consider having all medical treatment done in a country where there aren't all those troublesome regulations, sterilization requirements and all that other silly stuff.

Heart surgery in Tijuana, that sounds great!!  Oral surgery in Haiti! Surely all that HIV/AIDS talk is just Madison Avenue hype!


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## rjwolfe3 (Dec 11, 2008)

No, no, no ya go to prison to get exposed to that kind of stuff as well as a fun thing called MRSA.

(And no that is not a stab at Cav, I work at a state prison and see it every day, lol)


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## wolftat (Dec 11, 2008)

Andrew, I got to tell you that with all this talk about dentists and teeth, I think I am going to have to hold you responsible for my breaking a tooth tonight. I will be sending you my bill.:biggrinretend one of these are half blacked out.

Thank god I own a dremel.

Now that I was able to get a better look at it, I may just take a .22 cartridge and cap it myself. That may be an interesting grill.


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