# makes a grown man cry .....



## Willee (Feb 3, 2019)

A sad story in 5 photos ...


----------



## Curly (Feb 3, 2019)

Bummer.


----------



## Sly Dog (Feb 3, 2019)

Ugh! That sucks. Beautiful blank. Curious what glue you used, tho I know these things happen regardless...


----------



## Willee (Feb 3, 2019)

Sly Dog said:


> Ugh! That sucks. Beautiful blank. Curious what glue you used, tho I know these things happen regardless...


I used Gorilla glue but did not let it set 24 hrs ... my bad.
Also I drilled the blank but started cutting down down the diameter without installing the brass tube as I wanted to see where the points ended up at ... (they get shorter as the diameter is reduced) again ... my bad.
Oh Well ... lessons learned ... start another one in the morning.


----------



## jttheclockman (Feb 3, 2019)

For a man that makes pool cues and this to happen to makes me feel alot better. Of course it comes at your expense but I do feel better:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin: Sorry i just could not help myself because us mere mortals have this happen many times.

Can you explain what happened and what glue are you using for the glue ups??

While we got your attention here you still owe this audience an answerLets take you back a couple years shall we. Remember this posting and this beautiful pen you made??? 
http://www.penturners.org/forum/f13/mistake-turned-out-good-148690/

You never did tell us where you got that beautiful simulated turtle shell??????????????? See we never forget things here. Everything is documented. 


I see you answered a few questions just above this so it leaves the last one to be answered.


----------



## TonyL (Feb 3, 2019)

That makes me cry. Beautiful design though.


----------



## mark james (Feb 3, 2019)

I greatly admire your skills - the pictures are very helpful to understand.

Your website also has some interesting designs.

Thank you for sharing.


----------



## greenacres2 (Feb 3, 2019)

This is a time where we need a "DisLike" button.  Sure was cool looking though!!
earl


----------



## leehljp (Feb 3, 2019)

I do not trust glue ups, and that is not from pen turning (or pool cue) turning. It is from years of woodwork which the gluing works for a while and then comes apart for one reason or another. 

There was a guy here, (may he rest in peace) that "imagined" what joints could or would do under normal and unusual circumstances and planned from there. As I was facing similar problems with a segment build up - He posted how he wound thread around an unusual blank and CA'ed the heck out of it. After turning the string off and down about 1 mm, on one end, he rewound the string and then turned the other end down about 2mm. And so on. Time consuming but it prevented a blowout.

I guess you could say he went into (and I do also) the turning with the expectation that it is going to blow up - so what can I do to prevent it. Lots of wasted time but the rewards are worth it on artistic turnings.


----------



## Willee (Feb 3, 2019)

OK JT ... Hey I am just a mere mortal, humble pool cue maker, and part time pen turner.
Just get a little bit cocky about it all and life has a way to put you back in your place.
I rushed it ... short and simple!
Had I waited 24 hours the gorilla glue would have set better and this might not have happened. 
Had I glued in the brass tube before attempting to turn down the diameter I doubt it would have happened but I was in a hurry to see where the points would end up.

To answer your question about the pen ... I bought those strips (bout 36" long) off eBay a year ago but I think you can still get them.  
Acrylic MOP and turtle shell. That pen has two strips side by side to make it wider and correct the mistake.




jttheclockman said:


> For a man that makes pool cues and this to happen to makes me feel alot better. Of course it comes at your expense but I do feel better:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin: Sorry i just could not help myself because us mere mortals have this happen many times.
> 
> Can you explain what happened and what glue are you using for the glue ups??
> 
> ...


----------



## lathe monkey (Feb 3, 2019)

Willee said:


> Sly Dog said:
> 
> 
> > Ugh! That sucks. Beautiful blank. Curious what glue you used, tho I know these things happen regardless...
> ...



wow,that really sucks, for what's it worth I haven't had much luck with Gorilla glue, I no longer use it.


----------



## Aces-High (Feb 3, 2019)

Are there any good instructional videos on how to make a pool cue?


----------



## jttheclockman (Feb 3, 2019)

Willee said:


> OK JT ... Hey I am just a mere mortal, humble pool cue maker, and part time pen turner.
> Just get a little bit cocky about it all and life has a way to put you back in your place.
> I rushed it ... short and simple!
> Had I waited 24 hours the gorilla glue would have set better and this might not have happened.
> ...



OK Willie so you cheated us back then with the doubling up on strips of tortoise shell and did not tell us I can live with that.:biggrin::biggrin:

On this pen you say gorilla glue, are you using the CA or that foamy stuff??  I have a hard time believing you would use foamy stuff on detailed work like that that you now have to introduce moisture into tight joints. Plus the expanding pressures. Wood on wood I would always use Titebond II . Any other material it is epoxy for me. Have had pretty good success but as you say you need to let things cure before rushing to turn. In pen making hurry up and wait is the motto. 

You do know I am funning you because I have followed your work for years. You have made a few designs that I have used and there are a few more that I want to try. Being you come from a pool cue background helps in detail and being able to see things in the round as compared to flat. Continue to share your work. People enjoy it.


----------



## jttheclockman (Feb 3, 2019)

Aces-High said:


> Are there any good instructional videos on how to make a pool cue?



Mark Gisi has a good video and also his other video helps with segmenting.

https://woodworld-of-texas.myshopif...i-part-1-part-2-2-dvd-set?variant=38032428746 


There was someone selling these used copies somewhere and I can not remember where it was. But beartoothwoods has them as I am sure other vendors.


I now know where I had seen the DVD for sale and it was here by Mr Burls but I believe it was sold. Have to be quick around here sometimes.


----------



## dogcatcher (Feb 3, 2019)

Glue like Gorilla Glue, Titebond, Elmer's Wood glue all have expiration dates, usually have a shelf life of either 1or 2 years.  The sellers, don't seem to care, so do the research, make sure the glue you buy is fresh, and has not been setting on the shelf at the local big box for 3 years.  Also, don't "cook" it in a hot summer shed, or freeze it in an unheated shed.  

A starting point on finding good glue.   https://www.woodmagazine.com/materials-guide/adhesives/cracking-the-glue-code


----------



## magpens (Feb 3, 2019)

Sorry about your mishap ! . But thanks for posting this thread.

Can you tell me, please, where you got that extruded aluminum piece that features in the first three pictures you posted above.

I see the name of "TG Fixtures" on it, but a search for that name does not seem to yield anything useful. . Thanks in advance.


----------



## sbwertz (Feb 3, 2019)

Willee said:


> Sly Dog said:
> 
> 
> > Ugh! That sucks. Beautiful blank. Curious what glue you used, tho I know these things happen regardless...
> ...



Once I bought a custom made acrylic blank.  Pricey!  When I was turning it suddenly it simply shattered like yours did.  Only then did I realize I had forgotten entirely to put a tube in it!


----------



## Willee (Feb 3, 2019)

Aces-High said:


> Are there any good instructional videos on how to make a pool cue?



Actually there are.
Chris Hightower has a book and videos on how to do the various procedures required to make a pool cue. He also makes and sells machines for that.

Another maker of machinery for pool cue makers is Unique Products but they only have the videos.

You can also go to AZbilliards.com and look for the ASK THE CUEMAKER and MACHINERY forums.

It does take some specific equipment designed for that especially for making the cue shafts.


----------



## Willee (Feb 3, 2019)

magpens said:


> Sorry about your mishap ! . But thanks for posting this thread.
> 
> Can you tell me, please, where you got that extruded aluminum piece that features in the first three pictures you posted above.
> 
> I see the name of "TG Fixtures" on it, but a search for that name does not seem to yield anything useful. . Thanks in advance.



Oh My ... I have had that thing for years and most likely got it off ebay.
I do not know what they are called but any block of wood with a 45 deg groove cut into it will work as well .... just wax it good (renaissance wax) before using it to super glue the V shaped veneers together.


----------



## dogcatcher (Feb 3, 2019)

Willee said:


> Aces-High said:
> 
> 
> > Are there any good instructional videos on how to make a pool cue?
> ...



How about a "pictorial" on how you created the pen blank version?


----------



## Willee (Feb 3, 2019)

magpens said:


> Sorry about your mishap ! . But thanks for posting this thread.
> 
> Can you tell me, please, where you got that extruded aluminum piece that features in the first three pictures you posted above.
> 
> I see the name of "TG Fixtures" on it, but a search for that name does not seem to yield anything useful. . Thanks in advance.



Learning from your own mistakes is part of it but ...the smartest thing you can do is learn from others mistakes so you dont make them too.


----------



## jttheclockman (Feb 3, 2019)

My question would be how are you cutting the staves??  Do you have a jig for that and can we see it??


----------



## Curly (Feb 3, 2019)

Mal look up Press Brake Vee Blocks. There are some from India a metre long for about $220Can plus delivery. They may make shorter ones but I didn't look that far.


----------



## jttheclockman (Feb 3, 2019)

Look up drill press centering drill blocks. Same thing but maybe not as long.


----------



## CREID (Feb 3, 2019)

At first I thought you were footing arrows. I always wanted to do that.


----------



## Willee (Feb 3, 2019)

jttheclockman said:


> My question would be how are you cutting the staves??  Do you have a jig for that and can we see it??




STAVES?   do you mean the V grooves cut into the pen blank or the colored veneers that accent the points and fit into the V grooves?

I spend about 4 to 5 hours getting a 4 point two veneer each point blank set up.
It takes a lot of time and I doubt you can sell them for what they are worth in time alone.
I make them because I enjoying doing a few every now and then.
It is the exact same process that I use to place them in the forearms of pool cues ... just on a smaller scale.
I have in the past used pen blanks to work out designs and methods that eventually are scaled up and used in pool cues.

Here are some photos:
The first shows the setup for cutting the V grooves into the pen blank using a lathe and router. The lathe has a taper bar and indexer.
The second shows some finished pens (notice the points are a bit long)
The third shows another successful pen.

Two veneers seem to be the best number.


----------



## jttheclockman (Feb 3, 2019)

Thanks will have to give that a try someday but will be using a wood lathe. I think it can be done. Another to do.


----------



## MRDucks2 (Feb 3, 2019)

Those are sweet looking pens. 


Sent from my iPhone using Penturners.org mobile app


----------



## dogcatcher (Feb 3, 2019)

I found this link a few years ago when Skip Rat did a pool cue splice.  https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=210048

The time and money spent since then has been a world tour of wondering where it will lead next.  It was a fun trip, but too much of my shop equipment that has been worn out for decades and no longer has the precision that is required.  I can't see me getting rid of the saw that my uncle bought in the 1930's.


----------



## jttheclockman (Feb 3, 2019)

dogcatcher said:


> I found this link a few years ago when Skip Rat did a pool cue splice.  https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=210048
> 
> The time and money spent since then has been a world tour of wondering where it will lead next.  It was a fun trip, but too much of my shop equipment that has been worn out for decades and no longer has the precision that is required.  I can't see me getting rid of the saw that my uncle bought in the 1930's.



Skip has his own version where he shows how he makes them using a router and his metal lathe.


http://www.penturners.org/forum/f19/pool-cue-blanks-dummies-65140/


He has others.


----------



## WriteON (Feb 3, 2019)

Oh no say it ain't so. Life is not fair... I'm calling for a group hug.  Was it a mini Bushka or Bumperless Hoppe?


----------



## skiprat (Feb 4, 2019)

jttheclockman said:


> dogcatcher said:
> 
> 
> > I found this link a few years ago when Skip Rat did a pool cue splice.  https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=210048
> ...



John, my newer method is my preferred way now. The ramp is easier done with a tailstock offset.:wink:

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f30/cue-blanks-yet-another-method-79294/

I'm certainly not saying my way or results are any better, but I personally prefer to see complete points on both ends of the V's. 

Once the process to make these is understood, and the 'moving' of the points during turning is accounted for, then a simple mdf box jig can easily be made.:biggrin:

Willee, I feel your pain, to get that far and it blowing up can be tough. I bet the air in your shop was blue.:biggrin:


----------



## mb757 (Feb 4, 2019)

While I appreciate the jigs fixtures and so forth as well as the next person, this pen was made with a table saw and a sled set to 5 degrees.


----------



## jttheclockman (Feb 4, 2019)

mb757 said:


> While I appreciate the jigs fixtures and so forth as well as the next person, this pen was made with a table saw and a sled set to 5 degrees.



Nice job and just another way of doing it. I will be adding even another way when I get into these. Actually 2 different ways. But that is a surprise for another time.


----------



## EBorraga (Feb 4, 2019)

I made this a few years back. I think i mailed it to Skippy, but memory is a little hazy.


----------



## mark james (Feb 4, 2019)

This is a design I have always wanted to try, simply for the fun factor to say "I made one".  I have the means to make some nice trim rings, which could be a nice feature, and I have made some closed ends.

I appreciate Willee, and Skiprat for posting links for their process, as well as all the others who have posted pictures.  Many ways to get to the same approximate result.  Just need to figure out how to use what I (we) got.

I also have seen several others' pool cue pens that are amazing - many variables to play with.

A failure?  Actually a nice incubator for creativity.  Thomas Edison would approve.


----------



## EBorraga (Feb 5, 2019)

mark james said:


> This is a design I have always wanted to try, simply for the fun factor to say "I made one".  I have the means to make some nice trim rings, which could be a nice feature, and I have made some closed ends.
> 
> I appreciate Willee, and Skiprat for posting links for their process, as well as all the others who have posted pictures.  Many ways to get to the same approximate result.  Just need to figure out how to use what I (we) got.
> 
> ...




Sounds like a roadtrip to Medina is in order  I only require some of that great Bourbon  We can make plenty of these wit Frankie :biggrin:


----------



## Willee (Feb 5, 2019)

Proves you are never to old to learn something new.
I could never figure out how sharp points on both ends were achieved.
(The pool cue people are very protective of their secret methods).
Thanks to Skips excellent photos I now understand what needs to happen and why you would cut and glue only two points at a time. 
Not much difference between a pool cue and a pen except for scale.




skiprat said:


> jttheclockman said:
> 
> 
> > dogcatcher said:
> ...


----------

