# What would it take...



## Jake Byrd (Feb 9, 2005)

...to make our own pen kits?  This is just an idea, I doubt I can actually do it.  But what would it take?  Do the major suppliers such as CSUSA make their kits?  Wouldn't it just be molding the metal parts and putting the plating on?  I would imagine the companies just buy the refill and twist mechanism.

Thanks in advance,
Jake Byrd


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## Fred in NC (Feb 9, 2005)

There are only 3 suppliers in the US:  PSI, Berea, and CSU.  The kits are made in China or Taiwan.  All the others buy from one or more of these.  

Tips, bands, and finials can be made with a lathe, or cast.  The clips are usually punched and molded with a hydraulic press. Then they are plated. Then the transmission is needed.  Some kits need even more operations.  

Kind of a large investement in my opinion.


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## opfoto (Feb 9, 2005)

Fred,
Interesting, prices on the same kits vary as much as the turnings to dress them up. As I said interesting.


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## jwoodwright (Feb 9, 2005)

Nice concept...  Start-Up Costs would scare you....[:0]


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## Jake Byrd (Feb 9, 2005)

Yep, start up is what's scary...but you could make a little money off it once you got past that.  Once again, I am just curious...not planning on doing it.


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## Fred in NC (Feb 9, 2005)

Just my opinion, OK ?

I don't see any way we can make a slimline kit and sell for $1.50.

Higher end kits, and CUSTOM PARTS, like special centerbands and finials, YES !  There is always a market for specialized items.  Sometimes the aftermarket is more profitable.  Some people spend more in customizing than the original cost of the item.


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## TheHeretic (Feb 9, 2005)

I had discussed with Berea some time ago about the costs with coming up wiht a new pen kit.  I would like to see one similiar to the Sharpie.   Assuming I could get Sanford to liscence it, Berea indicated that it would probably take about 25K to bring a pen to market.   I am guessing more for different platings etc.    


Dean
columbus OH


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## woodscavenger (Feb 9, 2005)

Here's my dream.  A centerband with some style...beads, engraving, etc ...that fits the cheap slimline kits but has a larger O.D. so you can make a larger pen.  And it should cost less than a quarter.


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## Gary (Feb 9, 2005)

It's my understanding that Berea owns a state-of-the-art factory in Taiwan. That's what you would be competing with.


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## Darley (Feb 9, 2005)

> _Originally posted by TheHeretic_
> <br />
> Berea indicated that it would probably take about 25K to bring a pen to market.   I am guessing more for different platings etc.
> 
> ...



And the rest, if you have to lisence and trade mark it, make yourself confortable and have a thick walet, because to design something cost a lots of time and money, then your creation you want to keep it to get return from it, in the States you have 3 big suppliers who will look at your kit to grab it in a blink of the eye.
You will have to find who can manufactured the kit for you ( very expensive for the start ), a disgner, a good solicitor and a good advertiser. That is of course you want to keep the pen kit for yourself and reseller to the big company ( tha t where money is ) then it will take 4 to 5 years to get just your money back, the rest you will LOL ( profit )

investigate if you 're serious

Serge

PS you will not find a friend in business


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## Fred in NC (Feb 9, 2005)

> _Originally posted by woodscavenger_
> <br />Here's my dream.  A centerband with some style...beads, engraving, etc ...that fits the cheap slimline kits but has a larger O.D. so you can make a larger pen.  And it should <b>cost less than a quarter.</b>



Wake up !!!!!


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## woodscavenger (Feb 9, 2005)

I can dream can't I?


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## Gary (Feb 9, 2005)

> _Originally posted by woodscavenger_
> <br />I can dream can't I?



Sounds like Alice and the Mad Hatter![}]


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## JimGo (Feb 9, 2005)

Wood Scavenger, I'd settle for a plain band that was thicker!  I may try the idea you posted here a few days ago of a custom centerband.


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## btboone (Feb 10, 2005)

The only way that the factories in Taiwan or China can even afford to do that is to make tens or hundreds of thousands of parts once the tooling is paid for.  It takes a lot of 10 cent parts to pay for $25,000 worth of tooling.

You should be able to make custom width centerbands with your current tooling and getting creative.


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## jwoodwright (Feb 10, 2005)

OK, has anyone approached Berea with the Desire for a Larger CB for the Slimline[?]

What we need is hundreds of positive posts for it, Ask Jeff to forward Posts to Berea...  

They see a Need, they make us Happy, they make Money...  [8D]


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## DCBluesman (Feb 10, 2005)

As I see it, we all would like a slimline price, custom-fancy centerbands, parker style refill, highly customizable and parts available starting at quantity one.  I think that's why there are about 100 kits that I've identified worldwide.  Problem is, we all want em just a little different.


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## Travlr7 (Feb 10, 2005)

Hey Jake, since you're probably watching this thread, I'll ask you here. Do you or do you NOT want the blanks you won in the birthday Bash drawing???????????????????????????????????? 

If you don't answer, I must believe you don't. I have tried to get your address to no avail. No hard feelings here, just not willing to keep asking you if you want them.

Bruce


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## Jake Byrd (Feb 10, 2005)

I replied your email Bruce...and I replied on the board...have you not gotten them?  I do appreciate them very much.

Thanks,
Jake Byrd


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## Gregory Huey (Feb 10, 2005)

After you you put togeather the money to design and build your own pen kit how much would the drug rehab and the divorce cost.? Oh well guess I'll just keep on using the kits for awhile longer.


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## Fred in NC (Feb 10, 2005)

NOTE:  This post is about new KITS, and METAL parts.  

The larger centerband for the slimline is a totally different issue.  

First of all, it is only one small part of a kit, and a simple one to make at that.  I think a very small investment would give the supplier a new kit.

Second, there are large centerbands already.  One comes with the PSI comfort pen, which is just a slimline with the larger centerband, AND a piece of rubber that most of us don't use. A band like this could be sold separately, or the kit offered without the rubber part at a lower price, or as an option to the slimline.

Third, since it can be made in a lathe, maybe someone with the proper equipment can make some nice centerbands and sell them.  These would probably be high end centerbands with all the bells and whistles, and cost more than the imported parts.  

PLEASE, don't tell me that I can make my own centerbands, or omit them.  I already KNOW that, and have been doing it for a couple years.  We are talking about METAL, and possibly plated. OK?


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## Guest (Feb 10, 2005)

There are custom bands available in the Craft Supplies catalog starting at $1.10 .
That's not the $.25 your looking for but that wasn't realistic to begin with.
Even so you have a "cross style" pen with a total cost of $2.60.
For another $.70 you can get the PK Mont Par with a Parker refill that will accept gel refills.
What to are trying to do is make a silk purse out of a sows ear.
How much experimenting have you done?
I you take a look at the Euro style,all it is is a glorified slim line with a band and a cap.
You can get studs and finial stems and make your own finials.
Yep we are all looking for something different. but how different can it be if we rely on someone else to make the components?
Don't you think the manufacturer hasn't already figured out all the possible combination that can be made with their kits?
Just my take.


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## Fred in NC (Feb 10, 2005)

For a SLIMLINE with a wide center band, and Ti Gold, PSI offers the PKCFPENTN at $5 quantity one.  

Eagle, that is a good idea !!!  SOWSEARMASCUS !!!


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## woodscavenger (Feb 10, 2005)

"What to are trying to do is make a silk purse out of a sows ear."  Nice touch.  Again, I cn dream can't I?


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## Guest (Feb 10, 2005)

> _Originally posted by woodscavenger_
> <br />"What to are trying to do is make a silk purse out of a sows ear."  Nice touch.  Again, I cn dream can't I?


I've been tring to do that since I finished my first pen[xx(]


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## tipusnr (Feb 10, 2005)

Never understood why anyone would want to make a silk purse anyway!  Can't be a whole lot of call for them!![]


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## Travlr7 (Feb 10, 2005)

Well Jake, I haven't gotten any from you. so let's try again. I am putting "_"'s in the address here to pervent spam. When you type my address , queeze the letters together, removing the "_"'s.

M_H_Woodturning@Hotmail.com

Thanks, Bruce

PS If this doesn't work, I'll send you my mailing address and you can "Snailmail" me.


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## its_virgil (Feb 10, 2005)

Take a look at http://www.david.broadwell.com
David makes his own parts...he only buys the nibs and inking mechanisms...and the raw materials of course. Nice stuff, huh.
Do a good turn daily!
Don


> _Originally posted by Jake Byrd_
> <br />...to make our own pen kits?  This is just an idea, I doubt I can actually do it.  But what would it take?  Do the major suppliers such as CSUSA make their kits?  Wouldn't it just be molding the metal parts and putting the plating on?  I would imagine the companies just buy the refill and twist mechanism.
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> Jake Byrd[]


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## its_virgil (Feb 10, 2005)

The streamlined slimline has a larger CB or make you own. Or, use none at all. I rarely use a CB on a slimline kit.
Do a good turn daily!
Don


> _Originally posted by jwoodwright_
> <br />OK, has anyone approached Berea with the Desire for a Larger CB for the Slimline[?]
> 
> What we need is hundreds of positive posts for it, Ask Jeff to forward Posts to Berea...
> ...


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## woodscavenger (Feb 10, 2005)

Now why did you have to put that link there?  I thought I was doing good to make a few fine pens and then you had to go and post that sight!![!] Those are AMAZING!!  I would love to see him in action!  I think I willtake my little pens and go home now until I can muster the courage to come out of hiding.  We have a local art building that offers classes in jewelery making/silver smithing.  After seeing his stuff it makes me want to go sign up and get a peek at some basic metal working skills.


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## its_virgil (Feb 10, 2005)

We live in the same town and attend the same church. His work is incredible.
Do a good turn daily!
Don


> _Originally posted by woodscavenger_
> <br />Now why did you have to put that link there?  I thought I was doing good to make a few fine pens and then you had to go and post that sight!![!] Those are AMAZING!!  I would love to see him in action!  I think I willtake my little pens and go home now until I can muster the courage to come out of hiding.  We have a local art building that offers classes in jewelery making/silver smithing.  After seeing his stuff it makes me want to go sign up and get a peek at some basic metal working skills.


[][]


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## its_virgil (Feb 10, 2005)

Sorry Fred!  I didn't mean to tell you that.
Don


> _Originally posted by its_virgil_
> <br />The streamlined slimline has a larger CB or make you own. Or, use none at all. I rarely use a CB on a slimline kit.
> Do a good turn daily!
> Don
> ...


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## btboone (Feb 10, 2005)

Wow Don.  That stuff is awesome.  I didn't notice the area for the $15 pens on his site.  Maybe I overlooked it.  []


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## Jake Byrd (Feb 10, 2005)

yeah...$15 times 1000...lol


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## Travlr7 (Feb 10, 2005)

Evenin' Jake. Did you try to email me? I checked both Inbox and Junk File - Nothing there. Let me know and I'll email you my Snail Mail.

Thanks, Bruce


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## Jake Byrd (Feb 10, 2005)

could you please e-mail me your snail mail? 

Thanks,
Jake


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## Travlr7 (Feb 10, 2005)

Will do! Can't understand why I can't get your Emails. Just got one from Jim, buying some blanks from me.


Here Comes.

Bruce


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## jwoodwright (Feb 11, 2005)

Thanks for the info...[8D]


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## GregD (Feb 11, 2005)

Ya know, I was thinking the other day (This is usually where I get in trouble) Why buy pen kits from PSI, Berea, Woodcraft, CSUSA etc.? Why not find a supplier and buy wholesale in bulk?
If what Fred says is true, These companies owning the factories, then that answers that.


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## Rifleman1776 (Feb 11, 2005)

Something like that could be designed and manufactured, probably in Hong Cong. There are companies that can turn out zillions of items on request. I have an English friend that has products made in Hong Cong that way. He reports that the Hong Cong companies are trustworthy businessmen. Other Asian manufacturing centers may make your product but don't expect the idea to be protected. Internet searches will find you companies that will do that for you.







> _Originally posted by woodscavenger_
> <br />Here's my dream.  A centerband with some style...beads, engraving, etc ...that fits the cheap slimline kits but has a larger O.D. so you can make a larger pen.  And it should cost less than a quarter.


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## Deere41h (Feb 11, 2005)

> _Originally posted by jwoodwright_
> <br />OK, has anyone approached Berea with the Desire for a Larger CB for the Slimline[?]
> 
> What we need is hundreds of positive posts for it, Ask Jeff to forward Posts to Berea...
> ...



The Comfort or Soft Grip pen is just a slimline with a larger center band.  Why not use it and save the investment of thousands of dollars.


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## jwoodwright (Feb 11, 2005)

Thank for the info...


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## Fred in NC (Feb 11, 2005)

John, I mentioned that earlier in this thread.  

I made the point that maybe the suppliers could offer the Soft Grip without the rubber part as an option, since it would be cheaper that way. Most of us don't use the rubber part anyway.

Tooling for a centerband is a LOT cheaper than tooling for a complete kit.  This small variation on the slimline will be a LOT cheaper than a completely new kit.


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## its_virgil (Feb 11, 2005)

Except for the wall street pen, Woodcraft sells Berea Kits. WC does not manufactor their own. Buying from Berea is buying from the source. 
Do a good turn daily!
Don


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## Deere41h (Feb 11, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Fred in NC_
> <br />John, I mentioned that earlier in this thread.
> 
> I made the point that maybe the suppliers could offer the Soft Grip without the rubber part as an option, since it would be cheaper that way. Most of us don't use the rubber part anyway.
> ...



Fred...Sorry I missed your thread.  But you are right.  I have a couple hundred rubber bushing that I will probably never use.  I don't buy a lot of slim lines but they do offer a lot more choices in plating than the soft grip lines does.  A new line of centerbands would be nice.


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