# How to support the hobby



## RussFromNH (Aug 2, 2011)

Hi All, 
I am newish to pen turning, and I would like to find out how would I get myself into a position where I can support this as a "self-sufficient” or “self-funded" hobby? I would like to pay off the amount that I have spent on the tools, but then be able to buy some of the more exotic woods and better kits.
 
I enjoy working with the wood and seeing the patterns come out of the bowls, pens and other trinkets that I have been turning.  I also build wooden boats and those kits are very pricy as well.  Mostly I am finishing some that my grandfather started.


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## GoodTurns (Aug 2, 2011)

RussFromNH said:


> ... I would like to find out how would I get myself into a position where I can support this as a "self-sufficient” or “self-funded" hobby? .....



Marry well.  This stuff is addictive and you will be able to find many ways to exceed the incoming revenues!


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## OLDMAN5050 (Aug 2, 2011)

Good Luck. I can't think of any addiction that is self supportive................


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## RussFromNH (Aug 2, 2011)

How would one start getting any incomming revenues?  right now I give away my pens as gifts.


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## HSTurning (Aug 2, 2011)

Best of luck.  I have spent at least 10x what I have made back.  
If you can find a store to buy or carry your pens that would help.  Most do craft shows and those can be hit or miss and cost additional money.

I did the marry well route


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## HSTurning (Aug 2, 2011)

The best way is word of mouth.  If you have given pens away let those people know you are selling pens now.  Carry pens with you.  You never know who likes or collects pens.  Remember hand writing is dying off.  Most people e-mail or text now.  I make pens and the only time I use one is to fill out a time card.


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## PenMan1 (Aug 2, 2011)

Bank robbery immediately comes to mind as a way to fund this "hobby". I know drug addicts that spend less money!


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## JimB (Aug 2, 2011)

RussFromNH said:


> How would one start getting any incomming revenues? right now I give away my pens as gifts.


 
Start by stop giving them away. You need to be telling everyone you are selling them. show them to coworkers, friends, relatives, neighbors etc but when they ask you need to let them know you are selling them.


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## John Pratt (Aug 2, 2011)

Think like a drug dealer. Find a group like police officers, fire fighters, nurses, teachers, dentist offices. Give away one to someone in the group, after that they cost money. Just like the drug dealer, the first ones free after that you get to set the price the market will allow.
I have several orders for different pens (I think I am putting Constants kids through college with the laser pens) by simply making it known they exist and giving away a free one. I think my best luck is to give it to a mid level person, and then everyone wants one. If you give it to the senior person, they see it as a status symbol and don't want to divulge where they got it. The junior person wants to keep it special because it is something they have that all their superiors don't have. It has worked so far.


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## RussFromNH (Aug 2, 2011)

John Pratt said:


> If you give it to the senior person, they see it as a status symbol and don't want to divulge where they got it. The junior person wants to keep it special because it is something they have that all their superiors don't have. It has worked so far.


 

Great Ideas, thank you!


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## wouldentu2? (Aug 2, 2011)

There are jobs and there are hobbies and there is a reason they are spelled differently.


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## redfishsc (Aug 2, 2011)

JimB said:


> RussFromNH said:
> 
> 
> > How would one start getting any incomming revenues? right now I give away my pens as gifts.
> ...



Exactly. One of the quickest ways to guarantee a hard time selling pens is giving them away willy-nilly. 

The ONLY time I give away a pen is if it is to a worthy cause that others are likely to give to. Or if the person has done something extraordinary that, in my eyes and the eyes of others, has earned a reward. For example, I donated a pen/pencil set to my company to give away at an employee recognition dinner, and it went to the longest tenured employee. Who happened to be a pen collector that, in turn, ordered another pen from me at full price (which, I had no idea would happen lol). 


Now, other suggestions. 

1) Time and patience. Everyone's market is different. I don't "market" my pens much. I'm on a seminary campus, I've been here for 4 years, and people KNOW where to go for a nice pen. I have enough business to keep me going while I work a full time job, take 1/2 time grad classes, teach at church, grade for a professor, etc.......  I just don't have time, nor need, to market much. Word of mouth does it for me for now. 


2) Stick to quality, proven pens to sell. My personal policy-- I sell NOTHING that has 24K or 18K (or any gold) plating. I ONLY carry items that are pretty tough--- Ti-gold, black ti, rhodium, platinum, chrome, gunmetal, etc. 

----This also applies to pen kits. Nowadays, kits seem to be pretty dang good, but 4-5 years ago we had a handful of kits that were, (for lack of a better way to put it) complete bullchit. Transmissions, especially, had this tendency to be either very hard to twist, or they were scratchy, or they failed completely. I only sell pens I have tested (the first one I make) for a month or so. Once the first pen passes the test, it gets put in my "pen pile" of daily use pens, and I start making/selling the others. 


3) Limit your pen choices at first. Stick to some of the nicer 7mm kits, cigars, etc, and maybe a couple nice fountain/rollerball kits like the Jr Gent or Baron. Have, maybe, 6-10 types of kits at the most. Otherwise you spend a LOT  of time and money learning new kits, and less time learning the art/science of making pens efficiently and enjoyably. After you really get the hang of those kits, move on to more advanced kit items, like custom wood center band kits, etc.... (Russ Fairfield's videos... rest in peace good friend.... if we still have them available, are wonderful at this).


4) Decide on your favorite, DURABLE wood finish, and get VERY good at it. I spray my pens with a commercial, catalyzed conversion varnish that you can't get at most paint stores (some, though). But most of us end up using stuff like lacquer, CA finish, enduro, or similar products. Friction polish is easy/cheap but worthless over the long haul. 

5) Buy a Wet/Dry grinder NOW (like the Grizzly version of the Tormek). This single device helped me truly LAUNCH my skills since it greatly helped me have truly sharp tools. $200-300 is definitely worth it.


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## tim self (Aug 2, 2011)

Sell a kidney, should buy plenty of components and accessories.


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## Jgrden (Aug 2, 2011)

Heh,heh,heh, I love these responses because they are all correct. This is an addicting sport. The more you make, the better they get and the more you have tied up in inventory. 
There was a gentleman named Steve who had the Golden Key but he retired. The other turner who holds the Golden Pen award is Roy from Oklahoma. If you listen to Roy carefully, he can tell you how to make this a profitable business.


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## RussFromNH (Aug 4, 2011)

Thank you everyone for the great advice!


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## jimship15 (Aug 4, 2011)

I have donated to local fundraisers. Depending on the group the pen style varies. A nice cigar pen for the high school band, a sketch pencil for the drama group, a buulet pen for Ducks Unlimited, etc. Make sure you try to attend the fundraiser as well. Include cards to be placed in front of your item.
Works Ok so far


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## dennisg (Aug 4, 2011)

Pen turning is like the other story I've heard. If you want to make a million dollars you need to start with 2 million. 
It's not that bad, I can say this is the only hobby I've had that was self supporting.


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## 76winger (Aug 4, 2011)

There's several good responses in the replies above and some good humorous ones as well, so you've got a lot to sift through. 

In my own experience over the past 3 years (in Sept.) I've not been turning pens, I had the blessing of already having the lathe and beginning set of turning tools in the form of a basket-case Shopsmith I purchased the summer of 2005 and rebuilt that winter. All I needed was a mandrel and some kits to get started, I even had the initial wood in the form of some cut-offs from where I narrowed some white-oak molding some time before I started turning. 

The first year, I mostly made just a few and gave most away at Christmas time as money was tight and there wasn't a lot for buying presents then. Through the next couple of years I started selling some on ebay and etsy and although it's only amounted to averaging 2-3 per month, it's been enought to start building upon. For every pen I've sold I've been able to buy the materials to make around 2 more pens, and that's been better refined as I've gone along so that selling fees and shipping are covered in the sale too, and now I can add another tool every now and then into the collection as well. 

The addiction that everyone has mentioned above is the hard part. If you get in a hurry, yes you'll be spending more than your making real quick! But if you go slow like I've tried to do the hobby has been able to sustain itself. And it it weren't for reinvesting all the funds to grow what I've got, there would even be little in the bank by now. Maybe some day!

Just take your time and enjoy the creation process and you'll do fine. You don't need every new goodie someone shows you, so be extra careful when wandering the halls of Rockler, Woodcraft, etc.. It's not as much fun that way, but it does keep the hobby overwhelming the checkbook.


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## U-Turn (Aug 4, 2011)

+1 for John's suggestions. I started with some hunting clubs and the bullet and over under pens. Have an order for 20 pens for a bank board of directors since I gave my banker a pen with his college colors. Have done several laser kits with the medical emblem for doctors. Just some ideas.


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## RussFromNH (Aug 5, 2011)

I do find it very addicting. My wife and kids have been away all week and I have spent every night in my little workshop "playing". In fact, I am still picking CA and Gorilla glue off my thumb.

All of the suggestions have been very helpful, thank you. Keep them coming!!!

Currently I am working on a few laser cut blanks from Lazerlinez. A cross for my brother (minister) for his birthday, a few Greek flags for my wife's side of the family, a football for my other brother, and a fleur'd les for myself (Cub Master). But I am also expanding a little by trying an acrylic blank for a letter opener, and a seam ripper for my mother. 

I don't like the acrylic yet... I think I am doing something wrong. I have checked the forums today during lunch for some techniques and I am going to try some of the suggestions..

I am getting frustrated by my tools, one in particular is getting dull on the side that I use the most. I cannot spend the $$ right now to get a grinder yet, hence the question. My tools are a bit limited... lathe from Rockler, chop saw and some accessories for the lathe for drilling and making the pens. Eventually I would like to pick up a band saw, grinder and table top sander. With my 8'X5' workshop that I share with the freezer, water pump and furnace it is also a bit tight. 

I also make wooden model ships, but that has taken a bit of a back seat to this until I can make some room…

Russ from NH


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## Andrew_K99 (Aug 5, 2011)

RussFromNH said:


> ... I am getting frustrated by my tools, one in particular is getting dull on the side that I use the most ...


Lathes should almost come with a grinder built in as they go hand and hand. Dull tools will frustrate you and turn you off the hobby in no time. Unless you are using carbide tipped tools I can't imagine turning without a means for sharpening.

I would put that at the top of your wish list as it will really improve your time on the lathe.

AK


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## arioux (Aug 5, 2011)

PenMan1 said:


> Bank robbery immediately comes to mind as a way to fund this "hobby". I know drug addicts that spend less money!



And the are desintox center for drug addict.  Never heard of "Turner anonymus "


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## edicehouse (Aug 5, 2011)

http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=53620

Surprised no one suggested this yet!  That would be something to consider.


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## sbell111 (Aug 5, 2011)

edicehouse said:


> http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=53620
> 
> Surprised no one suggested this yet!  That would be something to consider.


Since the thread is about bootstapping the hobby, I wouldn't recomend his buying an expensive tool, especially one that he could easily make at a fraction of the cost.


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## Jim Burr (Aug 5, 2011)

I to have the Grizzly wet sharpener. Can't get by without it! Make business cards and network with places you have done business with in the past. Give aways...for awards and the like are cool because they can lead to sales. I made a few Jr Gents as gift for speakers at a medical conference or department put on. In 3 months I had sold 60 pens as a result. Most importantly...make really superior pens! I saw some I made 6 years ago...ughhhh, it depressed me! Anyone can make a pen...to sell them, they need to be exceptional and I don't mean fancy kits and woods...fit and finish are everything. If you won't give it to your boss...or mom! don't try to sell it. Pick 2,3 or 4 styles and learn everything about making those. Trying to make 15-20 kits gets expensive and you forget details about each type. Last...ask questions!!! Watch videos...look at what other pen makers are doing. Bring your A game and you'll sell well!


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## thewishman (Aug 5, 2011)

I used a $5 whetstone for the first couple of years, until my sales supported buying a grinder. After a year of whetstone sharpening, I bought some leather and a stick of honing compound to get the tools a little sharper.
Attend a woodturners  or penturners meeting and ask questions - there will be people that enjoy sharing their knowledge, and someone that can show you how to sharpen.


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## jbswearingen (Aug 5, 2011)

Russ--

Keep your eye on CraigsList for a grinder.  It's a boon for those building up tools on a budget as long as you're patient.


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## randyrls (Aug 6, 2011)

jbswearingen said:


> Russ--
> 
> Keep your eye on CraigsList for a grinder.  It's a boon for those building up tools on a budget as long as you're patient.



Second on Craigslist...  Also look at Estate sales in your town.  you might be able to turn up a grinder for cheap money.   If so, make sure the wheels are in good shape.  You will need a diamond dresser.  HF has 8" grinders for $50.00  The wheels are likely crap, but you can use them until the hobby allows you to get better wheels.


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## Daniel (Aug 6, 2011)

The first thing I suggest if you want to try and recoup some of your costs. Make sure your since for the value of your work is well adjusted. Most craftspeople undervalue their work. It is usually more than just being told you are selling your work to low to change that. Focus on understanding what your work is worth to your potential customer. this lets you not be apprehensive when asking $100 plus for a pen that is probably really worth three times that much. Look around at what other pens sell for, try them out. you will start getting a feel for what $100 will buy. And if you are like me you will begin to realize it isn't that much.
Otherwise making money at pens is not really that hard to figure out. Promote them. You can do that in many ways. Do shows in your area. tell friends and family that you are selling your work. make a web site. Websites are not a great way to sell pens. but they are a great way to spread the word that you make them. Find business owners that will display your pens in there shop. I now have business owners hunting me down believe it or not.

also learn to sell them. I have found it takes selling to sell my pens. I have to talk to my customers. Not convince them to buy. but more just chat and be friendly. listen to them and actually take part in helping them find their best selection. I am the one that knows about the 100 or more pens in my display and I am the one that can help them sort through them in a short amount of time and find just what will make them happy.

Also learn that what seems like a lot of money to you, may be nothing at all to your customer.

Years ago I had a girlfriend that was still in High School. Her mother was going to take her to get some new school clothes and asked if I wanted to go along. Now I have always had a pretty good since for fashion. putting together nice outfits etc etc etc.
We walked into a Macy's and I was walking through the clothes just pointing out different items. how this top would go with that skirt and then you could add this or that belt and that sort of thing. After a few minutes of this it turned around and there stood my girlfriends mother with every item I had pointed at. My jaw dropped, I was thinking that maybe we might end up with one outfit out of all this. The girl tried on a few of the outfits when the mother suddenly said they would finish this at home. She bought every single item I had suggested. Over $2000 in clothes in one stop. I could not believe anyone could afford that much money for just clothes. I don't think every stitch of clothes I had at that time would have totaled that much. At first I thought she was goign to just pay for them then return what she didn't really want later. but that is not what happened. At some point I said something to the mother about I didn't mean for her to buy all of that stuff. The mother told me that she had never had the ability to put outfits together. and that this was the first time that shopping for school clothes did not leave her worried she would send her daughter to school to be laughed at. She also said something about how she saw how truly beautiful her daughter was when she saw her coming out of the dressing room again and again looking the way she did. For the mother the $2000 meant very little, that her beautiful little girl would go to school looking beautiful was beyond any price.

Things have a value that is beyond dollars and cents. When you sell your pens you are not getting dollars. you are giving value. Learn that and you will sell your work.


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## DurocShark (Aug 7, 2011)

I agree with Daniel. I walked into a Pelikan store and checked out the pens around $100. They don't feel any better than a 12c Bic. 

When you get into the $250-300 range, you start seeing the solid heft of one of our pens.


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## RussFromNH (Aug 8, 2011)

I will have to give stropping the tool a try tonight, I have some compound and a leather strap for my carving tools. I have started sanding my work earlier with rough paper (80 grit) rather than getting too close with the tool and risk taking a chunk out or splitting the blank. I had a blank that I was working on last night split. Fortunately I was able to glue it (and my fingers) together. 
 
I would like to see what people here think of some of my more recent pens. I will post some pictures up soon. I am still playing with the finish coat a little. I have tried some that I really like, and some that I REALLY don't like. So I currently have 4 blanks sitting on my desk waiting for the kits. 
 
One other project that I am working on is building a pen press. My clamps all wobble at the base so they are not as good for pressing in the kits. I have seen pictures of what others have built so I thought I would give it a try.


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## jbswearingen (Aug 8, 2011)

RussFromNH said:


> One other project that I am working on is building a pen press. My clamps all wobble at the base so they are not as good for pressing in the kits. I have seen pictures of what others have built so I thought I would give it a try.




You got me to thinking.  GoodTurns (Jon) has a home-made press made from welded-up square tubing.  I thought maybe I'd try a wooden one.  Googled it and found this:


http://www.woodturningonline.com/Turning/Turning_content/pen_assembly_press.html








I think I'm gonna give it a try.


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## RussFromNH (Aug 8, 2011)

Yes, that is the one I found a while ago and lost...  Thank you for finding the URL for me again!!!


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## okiebugg (Aug 10, 2011)

*Black Hole*

My spouse used to say about my Bass boat the same thing she says about my shop.

"They are black holes that you throw money into"


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## Focushere (Sep 11, 2011)

I wanted the same thing when I started. I figured if I could make one pen and mark it up enough to buy two more then I would be doing OK. What I found out is that after the cost of setting up shop I was already 2500.00 + in the red. Then I started blowing up blanks on the lathe at a high rate. (learning curve) After about turning for about 6 months I had sold about 800.00 worth of pens. I figured they cost me about 900.00 to make. I then noticed that the cheap pen kits I was buying were not holding up and I was replacing parts on some coming back.  So now I buy the higher end kits and I sell one every now and then. Most of my sales are to friends and I don't make anything on them. I like giving people a nice pen at a great price and I give a lot away as gifts. People really love them and I take my time and do a good job. I'll make a pen for someone by request every so often, but I am in the hole thousands of dollars. I now consider myself a pen maker/collector. This is all about thearpy and stress release for me. I already have a 50 hour a week job. Maybe when I retire I'll make a business out of it and start setting up at shows just to keep me busy and get me out of the house. But, for now I am happy making a couple of pens a week just for the fun of it. Plus I am getting a really nice collection started.


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## n7bsn (Sep 12, 2011)

RussFromNH said:


> Hi All,
> I am newish to pen turning, and I would like to find out how would I get myself into a position where I can support this as a "self-sufficient” or “self-funded" hobby? I would like to pay off the amount that I have spent on the tools, but then be able to buy some of the more exotic woods and better kits.  [/FONT][/COLOR]




Do you know the difference between a Professional Wood Turner and a Large Pizza?

A Large Pizza can feed a family of four

(heard from Dave Schweitzer, a professional turned and wood-turning tool maker)

TTFN
Ralph


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## BradG (Dec 9, 2012)

Hi everyone my names Brad and im a Penoholic....

The sign said free cake and coffee? :biggrin:


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## BradG (Dec 9, 2012)

Theres my pen press behind me :biggrin:

It will level the most of stubborn pens with 10 tonnes behind it


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## Glenn McCullough (Dec 9, 2012)

This is your first error!!! I only give them to family or to a special event like retirement, promotion,etc . I tell people if I give one away, everyone will want one free. Your best marketing is carry one or some, make people want one and when they cant "have one" they will buy one. But you have to show it at every opportunity.





RussFromNH said:


> How would one start getting any incomming revenues?  right now I give away my pens as gifts.


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## CharlesJohnson (Dec 9, 2012)

tim self said:


> Sell a kidney, should buy plenty of components and accessories.


 

For a while.I find the more toys and supplies I buy,the more I want.Of course, my buying is "much" more limited than my wants.


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## Draconias (Dec 9, 2012)

For a pen press, you can use your lathe.  Simply turn two blocks of a hard wood like maple with a morse taper that will fit into your lathe head stock and tail stock.  Turn a small depression in the other end of the blocks. Then simply crank the tail stock to push the pen together.  It is working well for me and gives me alot of control pressing the pieces together.  Lots cheaper than buying a pen press or arbor press 

Ron


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## gbpens (Dec 9, 2012)

In the long run I have found that giving away pens generates very little in sales. You need to do shows if you expect any sales. Start with local schools, churches in your area. See where you fit. Strive for quality! Each pen is your reputation. You will be entering the business world wearing many different hats. It's a real learning experience. Good luck!


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## OKLAHOMAN (Dec 9, 2012)

You need to define what is a hobby and what is a business, In my view a hobby is just that, I might sell enough to cove 50% of my cost and the other 50% spent is what my "HOBBY" cost. Now if your looking to recoup all your investment and put the time and effort into doing that it becomes a business, and besides the cost of materials, you'll have the cost of shows, transportation, taking credit cards, all the overhead of running your shop (Electric, tools, supplies, collecting taxes, paying yourself for the many hours invested at the shows, in front of the lathe,drill press,assembly station, travel (even if it's just to your local farmers market it is a cost.) This is just a drop in the bucket of costs involved in making your "HOBBY" pay for itself and it no longer is a hobby but a business. Been there bought the tee shirt.


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## Jim Burr (Dec 9, 2012)

Good point Roy!! I use pen sales...really up this time of year!, to fund my shooting hobby. I just picked up all the stuff for another M4 and put down cash. My wife said "Where did that come from?!!" My gun dealer said "Did you see these really cool bullet pens he makes?" She smiled and gave me a pat on the bottom. It's good to keep the Mrs happy during Christmas and still get toys!


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## plantman (Dec 9, 2012)

:bananen_smilies046: You could be drinking, druging, hunting, fishing, snow sking, chaseing wild wemen, or paying it out in docter bills for theropy. Consider it money well spent !! You could also consider selling a few items once in a while. The giving is priceless and good PR, but doesn't buy you new equipment. Most people that make a living selling pen, also sell kits, blanks, write books or have some other connection with the craft. You could try setting up a web site, but you better be very good, or very cheep to compete with the number of people out there already. Have business cards printed up to give to anybody that shows interest in your work so they have something to go back to when 2 months down the line they need a pen. Mosts of the arts and crafts we go into are because we enjoy what we are doing. It's nice if we can sell something and get our costs out of them. It's a Godsend if we can actualy make a living from them. One thing I have learned over the years is that it's fun to do what you want to do, when you want to do it, it no longer becomes fun when you have a deadline to meet, a customer that wants something done in a manner that you wouldn't want your name tied to, or things just get out of hand. Moral of the story, "be careful what you wish for". Merry Christmas to all !!! Jim S


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## Displaced Canadian (Dec 9, 2012)

I support my hobby with a full time job.


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## ALA (Dec 9, 2012)

When I started turning pens I was planning on giving most of them away but that stopped pretty quick. Just too costly for me. I still give a few away mostly to relatives but sometimes, like others, in hopes of making a sell. I still don't have near the inventory others here have but my kitchen counter is completely covered. :biggrin:


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## CharlesJohnson (Dec 9, 2012)

eddiecastilin@cox.net
I have some other chissels.And i enjoy using them.But when I discovered this guy and his first carbide tool I was hooked.Not only the tool,the way he goes about teaching too.He is very generous with 152 videos on utube.Not speciallixed on pens,turning.He does demonstrate how good they work on pens.Shortly after the discovery he started offering a cutter.I started with that one and followed through.He offeres a very good selection now.You will be suprised how resonable they are.He also offers bars for them /our handles at great savings.If you have access to some ones grinder the bars are easy /fun to make.As are the handles.He has videos on this too.I only had to spend $10-$15 on each,compared to $90-$130+.Using a friends (aquaintance?-sp)wouldn"t be like trotting over there every time you need to sharpen.I did mine one or two at a time.Made it a lot easier.Lets have a lot of fun in this adiction.That is harder to do with injures.


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## Lenny (Dec 9, 2012)

The real secret in making money turning pens ......

Where is the real money in wooden pen making? « Woodcrafts


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## plantman (Dec 10, 2012)

Lenny said:


> The real secret in making money turning pens ......
> 
> Where is the real money in wooden pen making? « Woodcrafts


 
:search::search: Lenny; No truer words were ever written !!!! Thanks for bring up that article for all to see. Even though sometimes the truth hurts or sets you back a little, that doesn't mean that you shouldn't keep trying to be the one that gets to the prize. I would rather have tried something knowing that I gave it my best shot and learned lessons along the way, then to not have tryed and wondered forever if I was good enough to have done it in the first place. " Nothing ventured, nothing gained ". Jim S


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