# Piston / Syringe Filler



## Ed McDonnell (Oct 17, 2012)

I'm starting to plan out an experiment in making a fountain pen with a piston / syringe pull filler.  For the experiment I will cannibalize a \syringe and build the pen around the piston / plunger.

I spent time searching the web to see if I could find a source for different size pistons / plungers (not syringes), but didn't find anything.  I thought about making my own custom sized piston using leather, rubber or silicone (my own cast) as a seal, but I suspect that would require a lot of trials / time to find a material that will work suitably over the long run.  After thinking about that I decided it's probably not a good use of my time to try and reinvent the wheel.  I'll just keep looking for a source of suitable plungers / pistons.

As I think about the pens I see posted in SOYP, I see a lot of cartridge / converter pens.  I see a lot of bulb fillers.  I don't recall seeing any piston pull fillers.  Is that because the people making them just don't post pictures of them or is there another reason? Is there a reason why a fountain pen user would not want a piston pull filler?

Ed


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## BRobbins629 (Oct 17, 2012)

Quite the contrary, I think there are many fountain pen enthusiasts that actually prefer a piston filler. I think the reason you don't see many on here is partially due to the availability of a low cost unit. Bulbs and twist converters are more easlily sourced at lower prices. For a relatively low cost option, you can salvage one of the Noodlers Ahabs or similar models, usually for less than $20. Else Richard Greenwald carries a better version here:

Piston Fountain Pen - Large Steel Nib [20179] : Richard L. Greenwald, LLC, Pens, Pens Parts and Photographs

This is just the thing that could separate you from most.


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## Gilrock (Oct 17, 2012)

I tried to look at that product.  I think the "Larger Image" needs to be a lot larger...


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## MartinPens (Oct 17, 2012)

There is a great article in this month Pen World magazine on Pull Fillers. The article title is "Suck it Up!" and begins on pg 64

Very interesting link above. I ordered one. Looks interesting.

Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner


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## Ed McDonnell (Oct 17, 2012)

BRobbins629 said:


> Quite the contrary, I think there are many fountain pen enthusiasts that actually prefer a piston filler. I think the reason you don't see many on here is partially due to the availability of a low cost unit. Bulbs and twist converters are more easlily sourced at lower prices. For a relatively low cost option, you can salvage one of the Noodlers Ahabs or similar models, usually for less than $20. Else Richard Greenwald carries a better version here:
> 
> Piston Fountain Pen - Large Steel Nib [20179] : Richard L. Greenwald, LLC, Pens, Pens Parts and Photographs
> 
> This is just the thing that could separate you from most.



Hi Bruce - I've looked at the picture on Richard Greenwald's website in the past and not been completely sure what I was looking at.  I had decided it was just a fancier version of a converter type piston filler.  Screw operated instead of pull operated.  It's impossible for me to tell from the tiny picture on the website.  I believe it to be a Schmidt unit though.  I found this on the Schmidt website and it looks like a screw rather than pull to me.

SCHMIDT® ink feeding system, front parts, piston fountain pen unit

It would be tempting to buy a complete set of guts for a pull filler and just add my own decorative shell, but I think I wan't to go a little more in the DIY direction.  I hadn't thought about salvaging parts from another pen (thinking that would be an insanely expensive source for parts).  $20 for an Ahab pull filler!!!  Glad I just make pens for fun.  How could I compete with that.  The Ahab looks like a hybrid bulb / pull filler to me.  I think I would prefer a pure pull filler like that Belmont from Gate City...too pricey to use as a source of parts though (for me anyway).

Ed


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## Ed McDonnell (Oct 17, 2012)

MartinPens said:


> There is a great article in this month Pen World magazine on Pull Fillers. The article title is "Suck it Up!" and begins on pg 64
> 
> Very interesting link above. I ordered one. Looks interesting.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner



Hi Martin - This is the very article that inspired me to have a go at a pull filler.   That October 25 anniversary issue is just full of inspiration.  So many ideas....so little time.

Ed


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## IPD_Mr (Oct 17, 2012)

Ed you are correct.  Those are the Schmidt units.  They are good quality but I was like you when I looked at them and wanted to be able to do more custom work and not just a shell and cap.  The other issues are the thread sizes for the shell body,   you are limited by the unit.


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## frank123 (Oct 17, 2012)

If I understand what you're talking about essentially you're just working with small a hydraulic cylinder with a nib on the end.

Thought about just making the piston/plunger out of a piece of small rod with an O-ring for a seal and skipping all that leather, rubber, or silicone stuff?  The cylinder would be the pen body - you'd need to ream the hole and polish it for smoothness of the seal between the piston and body, or maybe just cast it if you're casting the blank or use a small seamless stainless tube (brass may not be compatible with ink) for the inner pen cylinder wall.  

O-rings come in enough different sizes to cover just about anything you might make so you can design the pen without a ready made part limiting your design.  You'd probably need to grind a groove cutter specifically to accommodate the O-ring you decide on.


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## BRobbins629 (Oct 17, 2012)

parklandturner said:


> BRobbins629 said:
> 
> 
> > Quite the contrary, I think there are many fountain pen enthusiasts that actually prefer a piston filler. I think the reason you don't see many on here is partially due to the availability of a low cost unit. Bulbs and twist converters are more easlily sourced at lower prices. For a relatively low cost option, you can salvage one of the Noodlers Ahabs or similar models, usually for less than $20. Else Richard Greenwald carries a better version here:
> ...


Richard is a very friendly person and full of knowledge on pen parts.  Call or write him if you have a question.  He may have other options.


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## Ed McDonnell (Oct 17, 2012)

frank123 said:


> If I understand what you're talking about essentially you're just working with small a hydraulic cylinder with a nib on the end.
> 
> Thought about just making the piston/plunger out of a piece of small rod with an O-ring for a seal and skipping all that leather, rubber, or silicone stuff?  The cylinder would be the pen body - you'd need to ream the hole and polish it for smoothness of the seal between the piston and body, or maybe just cast it if you're casting the blank or use a small seamless stainless tube (brass may not be compatible with ink) for the inner pen cylinder wall.
> 
> O-rings come in enough different sizes to cover just about anything you might make so you can design the pen without a ready made part limiting your design.  You'd probably need to grind a groove cutter specifically to accommodate the O-ring you decide on.




I had looked at hydraulic seals at McMaster and Enco to see if I could find something that might work, but nothing jumped out at me for the small size needed for a pen.  I didn't check out the o-rings but I know from other projects that there are thousands of different types.   I wonder if a round o-ring would have enough surface contact to make a leak proof piston seal or if it would need to be flat sided?   Any ink getting past the plunger would quickly lead to disaster.  It would be pretty easy to grind a tool to cut a recess for an o-ring.   Or to implement the design published by Richard Binder where the o-ring could be compressed as needed to maintain a tight fit. 

I would plan on reaming the ink cylinder hole.  I don't think casting (particularly with my home made molds) would give a perfect enough result to insure no ink leaks.  

Thanks for the suggestions.

Ed


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## frank123 (Oct 17, 2012)

parklandturner said:


> I had looked at hydraulic seals at McMaster and Enco to see if I could find something that might work, but nothing jumped out at me for the small size needed for a pen.  I didn't check out the o-rings but I know from other projects that there are thousands of different types.   I wonder if a round o-ring would have enough surface contact to make a leak proof piston seal or if it would need to be flat sided?   Any ink getting past the plunger would quickly lead to disaster.  It would be pretty easy to grind a tool to cut a recess for an o-ring.   Or to implement the design published by Richard Binder where the o-ring could be compressed as needed to maintain a tight fit.
> 
> I would plan on reaming the ink cylinder hole.  I don't think casting (particularly with my home made molds) would give a perfect enough result to insure no ink leaks.
> 
> ...



If your fit between the piston and cylinder wall is at all close a regular round O-ring should seal just fine, I suppose you could do two to be extra sure.  I think I'd consider using some heavy silicone grease to lube the O-ring to both insure smooth movement and low wear as well as an extra insurance against a leak caused by any unseen irregularity in the cylinder bore.

As for casting the cylinder in the blank, it may be easier than you think - I'm thinking to just cast a polished Teflon rod of the right size into your blank and turn the ends of the cured blank down to free the rod from any casting plastic enclosing it and then it should push right out leaving a polished bore.  (This is actually something I'm getting ready to do on a non pen item, it should work fine but I can't guarantee that till I get my thingy made later this week.  Maybe I'll try casting a tubular pen blank first since the  more I think about it the more I think about how I could use it that way.).


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## Jgrden (Oct 18, 2012)

Interesting conversation. Thank you.


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