# An honest critique my pen request



## Carl Fisher (Apr 25, 2012)

Ok, just to test the waters based on the conversation in the general forum, I thought I would throw this one out there for an honest critique.

I know of a few minor things that I have worked to correct in subsequent pens, but I'd like to see what sort of responses come up here.

Critique of the photos welcome as well


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## Turned Around (Apr 25, 2012)

i like it, but it might have a better look if you make a sharper angle with the light wood. it would blend better with the other acents. it still looks good, don't get me wrong, but if it were a sharper angle, it might go better with the flow.


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## TomW (Apr 25, 2012)

I dont like the way the pen kit "bling" interferes with the blank.  The black bands on the kit and the details on the center band draw attention from a great looking blank.

Tom


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## ZanderPommo (Apr 25, 2012)

I love the design and the finish looks fantastic.
Critiques would be it looks like at the centerband end of the cap, and the bottom end, it is a bit overturned, and you may need new bushings.
thats the only thing I can think of besides that I dislike your choice of plating, I've done away with all satin platings, and am down to chrome, rhodium, gold t/n, and black t/n, they just dont hold up well.

Also not a fan of the kit, but thats completly personal opinion, and shouldn't be viewed as a critique


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## jd99 (Apr 25, 2012)

I don't care for the band, it looks like it doesn't go with the blank for some reason.

Also I can't remember if the sedona band is supposed to be flush with the pen body or stand proud like you have it, and it looks like the blank is slightly smaller then the coupler in the Nib end. 

As far as colors I think something with a little more contrast.


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## Xander (Apr 25, 2012)

Fit and finish is very good. Blank matches hardware, color wise. Shape is pleasing.
I'm not sure about the segmenting. This is a personal thing and everyone has an opinion so not an issue, just my own liking.

Overall, very well done, totally sellable.


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## Carl Fisher (Apr 25, 2012)

Good and welcome comments all.

My own personal critique.

This has some of the tightest glue lines we've done to date.  No obvious joints where glue can be seen taking up a gap in the clamping.

I'm not a huge fan of the satin copper for longevity reasons and feel the dull sheen takes away from the overall finish on the body.  Sellable but not the best pairing choice.

The band end of the cap isn't noticeably overturned when you run your fingernail across it, HOWEVER there appears to be a shadow line caused by overflow of the finish not being sanded completely back to the blank leaving it looking a bit off on the fit.  The pictures seem to accentuate this more so than when you are actually holding the pen.  I've adjusted the way I clean the end of the blanks after finish and before assembly and haven't seen that show up since.  The same issue appears to be present in both ends of the pen body as well.  Minor yes, but still something addressed moving forward.

The random segmenting is definitely a personal opinion.  Chrissy has been doing a lot of experimenting with segments to see what works and what doesn't overall.  I personally like the overall random look and the mix of woods but again that is personal opinion more than critique.


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## PenMan1 (Apr 25, 2012)

I love you work on the pen, particularly the interesting segments. I also like the Sedona hardware. What I dislike is the black threads. A "close up" photo would add to the interest in this pen.

When I make Sedona, I use the gold or silver threads from Rhinehart hardware. I prefer the gold threads on gold rings. It's a personal thing, but the black threads just look out of place to me.


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## wouldentu2? (Apr 25, 2012)

Would look better without the mahogany. 

With the metal color thought it was a bit busy.


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## jd99 (Apr 25, 2012)

Lets learn something... I'm interested in your process on how you are doing the ends now vs what you did on this pen.

Do you sand back completely to the blank? Leave some finish on the end? etc.

What I do is after I square the ends of my blanks and before turning, I coat the ends with just enough thin CA to seal them, but try not to build up any CA, if I do I run the tool back over the blank by hand to get the build up down as thin as possible.

I also right after I pull the blank off the centers after applying the CA; I run the squaring tool on the blank again (by hand) to take off any CA that has run off the end and make a nice square edge to the diameter.

Maybe if we can all learn from everyones critiquing of each others pens if we explain what we do to fix, or try to fix what the problems are.

But then again maybe this should be in tips and tricks???




Carl Fisher said:


> Good and welcome comments all.
> 
> My own personal critique.
> 
> ...


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## Gilrock (Apr 25, 2012)

Yeah my first thought was I wanted to see that blank on something like a Jr Statesman or Majestic kit.  I feel like when you spend a lot a time to make a beautifully segmented pen you need to hurt you're wallet when you buy a kit for it.


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## David M (Apr 25, 2012)

overall , I like it . Not a fan of the satin copper . With the alum. inlay I think a chrome kit would match a little better. ( or leave out the alum. ) I do like the black threads with the black in th blank.
David


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## juteck (Apr 25, 2012)

Glue joints look tight as you mention. It looks like there is an ever-so-slight bulging curvature between ends -- I like that -- not quite bushing to bushing and gives a pleasing shape without being out-of-proportion. The fit looked off to me as well, but you explained that above as being an apparent photo illusion due to the shadows. The black/silver/white bands look out of place. If anything, I'd think using copper/black/copper would tie in the black threads to the copper hardware at both ends of the body. The random segmenting doesn't quite do it for me on this one -- I'm thinking that there are too many random elements happening at once. Maybe consider randomizing the angles of the laminations but not the banded materials, OR randomize the materials but not the cut angles.


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## HoratioHornblower (Apr 25, 2012)

I love these comments! About the pen, I think the center band does not fit with the design in my opinion, and the cork (?) lines running through the other segments is too much for me. It makes the pen look too busy, and I think that if you took that out it would improve it greatly. This is just my preference and I know that there is someone out there that would "have" to have it, but I think removing the cork would make it more appealing to a broader audience. I agree with the CA making the fit look bad as I have had this myself. I do thing that you did very well with executing the segmenting and the lines look very clean.
 
David


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## Carl Fisher (Apr 25, 2012)

To answer the question on cleaning the ends, I have made a small sanding disc of sorts that gets chucked into my 4-jaw.  I use this to square the blanks before turning and then switch to finer grit paper to clean up after the finish is applied.  Using psa (pressure sensitive self adhesive paper) makes swapping grits easy.  I use a jacobs chuck in the tail stock with a transfer punch that fits the tube.  Then it's just a matter of touching the ends of the blank to the sand paper with a high grit on the slowest speed the lathe will turn (by hand is also an option) to take it back down to the blank.  Typically once I get there, there has been no need to re-seal the ends that I've seen.

I find that this eliminates the "glue line" that can happen when the CA flows over the edge of the blank during the finish process when not using bushings to finish.


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## Ed McDonnell (Apr 25, 2012)

I find it hard to comment on a pen from just a photo.  Some things you can see by zooming in on a photo aren't going to be visible to the pen owner unless they are looking at it with a magnifier.  Other things that would become obvious by being able to hold it and feel the pen aren't going to be easy to discern by just looking at a photo.  So, my comment on the pen is that "it looks nice as far as I can tell by looking at the photo".

Looking at the photo, I have a couple of comments:

1) I don't think the acrylic pen holder is doing justice to your pen.  A better choice of props (or no props at all would) allow all the attention to fall solely on your pen.  

2) Color is always a tough one.  I think the warm tone of the background detracts from this pen.  A more neutral or cooler color would allow the pen to really pop out.  Based on the tone of the background (as I see it on my monitor), I'm guessing you need to work on your white balance (either while shooting or later in post processing (especially if you are shooting raw)).  But it could just be that a choice of a slightly different toned background would make all the difference.  It's worth having a couple different backgrounds in your studio. 

3) Paying attention to your depth of field for the settings you have chosen and setting the angle of the subject relative to the focal plane to keep everything in focus will give better results for "documentary" type photos.  These look pretty good, but the nib appears to be verging on blur in two of them.   

Just one person's very subjective opinion.  Others could justifiably feel very differently about these things.

Ed


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## Mapster (Apr 25, 2012)

Your critiques seems spot on!

I know from experience copper doesn't last too long, and it interferes slightly... The aluminum needs to have some silver of some sort as a kit with it. The ivory looking material has no business being in that pen, completely wrong color family. Also, slightly overturned on the cap end.

Despite the critique though, it is still a very appealing pen that any customer would be more than thrilled to have. It catches the eye pretty well, and is very interesting to look at


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## renowb (Apr 25, 2012)

IMHO, too much segmenting going on, that is, I don't care for the vertical part. Very talented to do it, just not my thing. Of course, opinions are like a****** so take it with a grain of salt.  Excellent fit and finish. I like the color coordination.


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## booney0717 (Apr 25, 2012)

I realy like this pen. Keep in mind i'm kinda new to pen making but my only thought is gold components might have been a better option. I do like copper just not in this pen. I hav'nt had much expeirence with segmenting but it looks like you did a good job at that. The finish is very nice.


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## 1080Wayne (Apr 25, 2012)

Guess my critique would be that highly segmented designs look best when made with solid colours , not figured woods such as the tulipwood ? Personal opinion only . Also agree with the ivory comment re wrong colour family . Your treatment of the ends is the best that can be done .


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## TerryDowning (Apr 25, 2012)

Just not digging the copper.
It's ok sometimes, but generally, I just don't care for it.

On this pen the silver segment and the copper definitely clash rather than compliment.


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## OKLAHOMAN (Apr 25, 2012)

Use of the likes button on critiques seems appropriate.


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## keithbyrd (Apr 25, 2012)

Ithink this has been a great example of what the forum should/could be!  I would love to get this kind of constructive discussion on some of my posts.  
On this pen I like the segmenting but not the plating choices.  A component pen such as Jr Statement - silver or black titanium would look great IMHO.


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## crabcreekind (Apr 25, 2012)

Maybe if you used it on a simpler kit like a blk ti jr gent 2, or rho


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## 76winger (Apr 25, 2012)

To me, it looks like the main body is ever so slightly overturned where it meets the ring adjoining the section. Whereas the fit next to the finial ring looks right on, maybe a fraction larger than the ring, then rounded to blend. This might just be due to the angle of the camera to pen, close-ups would reveal the details better. 

The photos look like the white balance might need tweaked just a little as the overall color is a bit pinkish. I thought this might just be the copper plating, but looking back at them. I don't know how much you can adjust your camera, but the one I'm familiar with has settings for different types of lighting then you vary the scale up and down for each lighting type to fine-tune it for the lights you use. So that could be worth checking out to see if you can tweak it just a little.


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## 76winger (Apr 25, 2012)

Although I think this seems to be a good example of critiquing, I also see where lots of opinions about looks or plating or coloring is weaved in the mix as well. And for critiques, I think I would really want good suggestions on how to make it better and not a statement of ones opinion on how it looks in general. 

However an option rephrased as a suggestion isn't a bad thing, like one mention I can recall without going back and looking pointed out how the aluminum clashed with the copper. In itself, that's an opinion, but it was followed by a suggestion of how the pen would look better with a plating that matched up with the aluminum. Thus pointing out something and offering a possible solution. I think that's what we want to see in critiquing forum.


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## Carl Fisher (Apr 25, 2012)

I need to get a good gray card to set the camera to the lighting.  The only thing I really can't do is shoot RAW format.  It just doesn't have the option.  I have since bumped up my exposure 2/3 when shooting and it seems to do a little better.  I may have tweaked it a bit too much in photoshop as well since one of my monitors has a bit different color representation than the other.

Love the comments and want to thank everyone for their honesty.  I think going forward, coming out and asking for criticism is a good way to get solicit ways to improve. If everyone just says it's great then you don't always see how to improve.


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## Carl Fisher (Apr 25, 2012)

Actually the opinions I have seen so far have been well taken and digested as exactly that.  I agree with many, some I don't.  However all of the opinions that are offered with a reason behind them are closer to critique and every one can be considered when moving forward with the next design.  Some will help guide us, others can be set asside for future consideration, but not everyone will be pleased by every choice.

Great thread and I think it lends itself to the consideration for either a critique forum or at least a format for asking for input when wanted.

I haven't gone back and Liked all of the posts, but rest assured each and every one is valued.


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## ghostrider (Apr 25, 2012)

One suggestion I would make.

Pictures look good in the composition you use, but if you were to not worry so much about composition, and more about detail, it would be easier to give it a better assessment.

For instance. It looks pretty good in the picture (This is judging F&F, without letting my personal tastes come into play), but if it were closer I would be able to see more detail. Even shooting the pen in sections as to give a better image for scrutiny would help. It may not be the most eye pleasing presentation that way, but it will allow the viewer better information with which to make a judgement.


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## 76winger (Apr 26, 2012)

Carl Fisher said:
			
		

> I need to get a good gray card to set the camera to the lighting.  The only thing I really can't do is shoot RAW format.  It just doesn't have the option.  I have since bumped up my exposure 2/3 when shooting and it seems to do a little better.  I may have tweaked it a bit too much in photoshop as well since one of my monitors has a bit different color representation than the other.
> 
> Love the comments and want to thank everyone for their honesty.  I think going forward, coming out and asking for criticism is a good way to get solicit ways to improve. If everyone just says it's great then you don't always see how to improve.



Carl, I don't use photoshop for dressing up my photos, just the simple program that came with my camera. Mostly just crop, run a function that highlights dark areas if needed and sharpens the image. All on the .jpg file produced by the camera. Mine does RAW, but it's really not necessary for pen photos. Also, high MP rating isn't necessary, I never shoot the pens above 3 MP and those even get reduced for many needs. Once you get the exposure pretty close, which it looks like it is, do some bracketing of the white balance settings then review those un-tweaked on your computer to find which setting looks the most natural in color without the need for photoshopping. Once you figure the best setting for your lighting, record it. It should continue to work for you until your lighting situation changes. At that time you'll have to run another series to re-tune the WB to the new lighting.

I hope that helps!

Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner


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## Parson (Apr 26, 2012)

My "honest feedback" for you is something I learned the hard way. You did a lot of great segmenting work and then put it on a relatively cheap kit.

If you're gonna go to all the work of segmenting with wood and metal and plastic, put it on a $25 kit that has plating that won't wear off and has metal threading.

Just my opinion after doing a lot of segmented pens with cheaper kits (not cheap mind you, just cheaper)...


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## Lucky2 (Apr 26, 2012)

Personally, I would like it better if you had used a Chrome kit rather then a Copper one, seeing as you have steel included in the blank. Plus I don't like the look of Copper pens of any style, as for your photography, skills it needs a bit of work.
Len


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## Mike D (Apr 26, 2012)

I like it. I don't care for the copper finish that I've seen on some pen kits but the segmented barrels and the copper plating works very well. Great job!


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## edicehouse (Apr 26, 2012)

It is definatly a head turner, with would get the interest of people.  I read a few comments, but getting ready to head home, so decided to just go ahead and leave my 2 cents.  The kit should have been chrome to bring out the hint of metal you have in the segmentation.  (once again as many said that is personal choice).


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## Smitty37 (Apr 27, 2012)

Carl Fisher said:


> Ok, just to test the waters based on the conversation in the general forum, I thought I would throw this one out there for an honest critique.
> 
> I know of a few minor things that I have worked to correct in subsequent pens, but I'd like to see what sort of responses come up here.
> 
> Critique of the photos welcome as well


 
I assume you are most interested in comments on the blank.  The component set could be any of a half dozen or more that the blank would work with.  Personally I would like Rhodium, Gold Titanium or Black Titanium better - but that is just taste.

I like the idea in the blank design and my comment might be more related to the photo than the blank.  The lighter color in the design near the nib (not the stripes) doesn't seem to be defined enough, it doesn't seem to have quite enough contrast with the main barrel color and the color of the inlay or segment seems a little washed out itself. I won't say anything about workmanship, I don't think I can see well enough in the photo to tell you anything of value.

I would definately continue with that blank design though, I think it can be made into something really good and unusual enough to be very desireable.


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## Jgrden (Apr 27, 2012)

Beautiful artisan work with the wood and segmenting. I'd like to see this work on another type of component.


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## Jim Burr (Apr 27, 2012)

Although not a fan of copper...this works well. The "silver" segment, aluminium, whatever, is great, but maybe a sheet of copper would fit better. The more acute angle thought is worth a look. Copper isn't my favorite...but this works real well!


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