# Purchasing a buffing system



## brownsfn2 (Jan 1, 2012)

I am looking to purchase buffing wheels and compound to put on a spare mandrel I have.   Can someone tell me if this thread is still valid as a good system to use?

http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=55476&highlight=buffing

If so do the caswell canton wheels fit on a pen mandrel?

I am not ready for a dedicated buffer and I was hoping they would.  I think the PSI system is probably low quality and the beal is overpriced.

Hope I am not opening up a can of worms here.  Thanks for any opinions or assistance.  Hope your New Year's day is going well!


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## Mack C. (Jan 1, 2012)

brownsfn2 said:


> > I am looking to purchase buffing wheels and compound to put on a spare mandrel I have. Can someone tell me if this thread is still valid as a good system to use?
> >
> > http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=55476&highlight=buffing
> 
> ...


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## dogcatcher (Jan 1, 2012)

I use 1/2" bolts with the head cut off, 2 nuts and washers hold the buffing wheel in place.  I use drill chuck in the headstock and the live center in the tailstock.  The pressure from the TS keeps it in place.  3 bolts, 6 washers, and 6 nuts, cost less than $5 for all 3.  Then add in the cost of the buffing wheels, compounds and wax.  

I also made up extra wheels that are dedicated for steel polishing, plastic polishing, and polishing brass.


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## tool-man (Jan 1, 2012)

brownsfn2 said:


> If so do the caswell canton wheels fit on a pen mandrel?


No they will not fit.  The buffing wheels have a 1/2" hole.  

You will need to rig up some type of mandrel to mount the buffing wheels on.  Personally I have a dedicated buffing set-up using an old double ended motor I happened to have in the shop.


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## brownsfn2 (Jan 1, 2012)

Hmm...  Not sure I understand.  I thought it would be just the two wheels since there are only two buffing compounds.  Why triple up the wheels?  Also why have three different ones?

I am sorry if this is a really basic question.  I am just new to using buffing as a means to get a good polish.  

I was going to order 2 wheels and plastic and plastic-glo buffing compounds.  Now that I see yours I think I am missing something.


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## Texatdurango (Jan 1, 2012)

brownsfn2 said:


> Hmm... Not sure I understand. I thought it would be just the two wheels since there are only two buffing compounds. Why triple up the wheels? Also why have three different ones?
> 
> I am sorry if this is a really basic question. I am just new to using buffing as a means to get a good polish.
> 
> I was going to order 2 wheels and plastic and plastic-glo buffing compounds. Now that I see yours I think I am missing something.


 
No, you're not missing anything.  I personally use two different wheels just as you mentioned above.  Some people like to wax their wood pens so have the third wheel for wax OR for polishing metals.  I've even heard from some who buff wax on their acrylic pens, why I have no idea!  I don't know why Mack tripled up his wheels.  If I were in a music repair shop buffing french horns (which I did in the 60's) perhaps the wide buffs would be nice but for pens?  BUT... they look cool!

Whatever you do *DO NOT* try to rig up some system using bushings, etc just to use the wheels with your 1/4" diameter pen mandrel.  If you do you will soon find yourself with the wheels and mandrel wrapped around YOU!

Follow the lead of the guys above, go down to the local hardware store and buy some 1/2" all-thread or a long 1/2" bolt, a few washers and nuts and you're good to go.


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## Mack C. (Jan 2, 2012)

Texatdurango said:


> brownsfn2 said:
> 
> 
> > > I don't know why Mack tripled up his wheels.
> ...


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## Mack C. (Jan 2, 2012)

brownsfn2 said:


> > plastic and plastic-glo buffing compounds.
> 
> 
> I use Caswell 515-6163 Plastic-Glo (Ultra-fine, Dry), & 515-6165 Plastic Buffing Compound (Fine).
> ...


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## Texatdurango (Jan 2, 2012)

Mack C. said:


> brownsfn2 said:
> 
> 
> > > plastic and plastic-glo buffing compounds.
> ...


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## Mack C. (Jan 2, 2012)

Texatdurango said:


> Mack C. said:
> 
> 
> > brownsfn2 said:
> ...


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## Texatdurango (Jan 2, 2012)

Mack C. said:


> Texatdurango said:
> 
> 
> > Mack C. said:
> ...


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## tool-man (Jan 2, 2012)

Here are two DIY articles I found on making your own buffing system:

Beal type 3 wheel setup for lathe http://goo.gl/Kw6iQ

System using an old motor http://goo.gl/JjW76


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## philb (Jan 2, 2012)

Do you still you tripoli or WD before these two compounds? Or going straight in with the FINE and U-FINE?

Im guessing if so, Ill have to keep the Tripoli and WD for the bowls and platters!

PHIL


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## brownsfn2 (Jan 2, 2012)

This forum is great.  Thanks for all the great information guys!!


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## Mack C. (Jan 2, 2012)

philb said:


> Do you still you tripoli or WD before these two compounds? Or going straight in with the FINE and U-FINE?
> 
> Im guessing if so, Ill have to keep the Tripoli and WD for the bowls and platters!
> 
> PHIL


I use the Ultra-Fine (1st), then the Fine (2nd). The Tripoli and White Diamond went to the purchaser of the Beall buffer when I sold it.

I know of no reason the Ultra-F and the F can't be used on your bowls and platters.


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## philb (Jan 2, 2012)

Mack C. said:


> philb said:
> 
> 
> > Do you still you tripoli or WD before these two compounds? Or going straight in with the FINE and U-FINE?
> ...



Im thinking that they'd be better for just Oil finishes. I assumed the Ultra-F and F were better for plastic finishes like CA or Polymer blanks, not bare wood?


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## Texatdurango (Jan 2, 2012)

philb said:


> Do you still you tripoli or WD before these two compounds? Or going straight in with the FINE and U-FINE?
> 
> Im guessing if so, Ill have to keep the Tripoli and WD for the bowls and platters!
> 
> PHIL


To get a clearer picture of buffing (often called polishing) compounds, think of them as you would grades of sand paper, ranging from course to fine.

There are literally hundreds of compounds to select from but for CA covered wood and plastics, Tripoli is considered one of the courser compounds followed by the "white" compounds and here is where it gets a little fuzzy.  Different manufacturers make their own compounds and I don't believe that there is an industry standard where they have to say what "grit" the compounds are so it's just a matter of choosing a compound you like and going with it.

Like most here, I started with the tripoli/white diamond compounds and when I bought the Caswell "ultra fine" and "fine" compounds, both produced a brighter lustre than the white diamond telling me that both were a finer "grit" so I decided to replace the tripoli and white diamond all together since both were coarser than what I wanted.  

I never used the tripoli much and based on the times I did use it, I would swear that it actually introduced new marks on the blank that the 1000 sandpaper had removed so in my mind it may even be coarser than 1000 grit paper on our soft CA and acrylic finishes!  Now I usually go from 600 or 1,000 paper straight to buffing.  

But remember, NONE of this is etched in stone somewhere, there are so many variables involved in getting a good shine, including how much pressure you apply when buffing that you really need to come to you own conclusions as to what works best for you.


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## Mack C. (Jan 2, 2012)

philb said:


> Mack C. said:
> 
> 
> > philb;1334276
> ...


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## Leviblue (Jan 2, 2012)

Is there a disadvantage to changing out the Beal buffing wheels and replacing them with the Caswell systems mentioned?  The shaft is already mated to the MT on the lathe.

Just curious.


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## Mack C. (Jan 2, 2012)

Leviblue said:


> Is there a disadvantage to changing out the Beal buffing wheels and replacing them with the Caswell systems mentioned? The shaft is already mated to the MT on the lathe.
> 
> Just curious.


There probably is no need to change out the Beall system, a good cleaning with 80 grit sand paper backed by a board won't hurt their buffs. I just wanted to make my own system to see if I could, never having made anything like that before. 

Order the buffing compound from Caswell and you are good to go. You can call it the Beallwell buffing system!:biggrin:


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## SCR0LL3R (Jan 2, 2012)

Mack C. said:


> I use Caswell 515-6163 Plastic-Glo (Ultra-fine, Dry), & 515-6165 Plastic Buffing Compound (Fine).
> 
> And as strange as it may seem the Ultra Fine is to be used 1st, and the Fine 2nd. The micron size of the grit -- Ultra is 3 microns, the Fine is .5 microns. I have confirmed this information with Caswell. They don't manufacture the compounds themselves.
> 
> Be prepared for the size of the bars, about 10" long, 2" high, and 1 1/2" thick.:smile-big:



I wish I would have known this before I initially ordered from Caswell.  I only have the ultra-fine (which I use on a string buff) but it does do a pretty nice job on it's own.... It seems to clean up scratches left by 12k mm and HUT ultra gloss even though it has a larger particle size.


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## philb (Jan 2, 2012)

Texatdurango said:


> philb said:
> 
> 
> > Do you still you tripoli or WD before these two compounds? Or going straight in with the FINE and U-FINE?
> ...



Thanks!


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## brownsfn2 (Jan 2, 2012)

Thanks for all the advice.  I just ordered 4 canton flannel buffs from caswell along with the two polishing compounds.  So here is what I think my process will be.  Let me know what you think:

1. Sand
2. Micromesh
3. novus 2
4. Mag Platx
5. buffing

Should that give me the best finish?  Or is it overkill?

Thanks again!


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## Texatdurango (Jan 2, 2012)

brownsfn2 said:


> Thanks for all the advice. I just ordered 4 canton flannel buffs from caswell along with the two polishing compounds. So here is what I think my process will be. Let me know what you think:
> 
> 1. Sand
> 2. Micromesh
> ...


 
My opinion.......*Overkill!*

Just for grins try this little experiment........

1. Turn two identical acrylic blanks.

2. Sand both the same except stop sanding one at 800 or 1000 grit, hit it with a drop of Novus #3, then a drop of Novus #2, then take it to the buffer and lightly buff then set it aside.

3. Continue on with your routine with the second blank then set both blanks side by side and ask your sweetie to have a look and tell you which looks better.

You may be surprized with the results!  Did I already say Overkill?


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## philb (Jan 2, 2012)

Texatdurango said:


> brownsfn2 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for all the advice. I just ordered 4 canton flannel buffs from caswell along with the two polishing compounds. So here is what I think my process will be. Let me know what you think:
> ...



Would you recommend plastic polish before buffing, or after?


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## Texatdurango (Jan 2, 2012)

philb said:


> Would you recommend plastic polish before buffing, or after?


 
Well I'm sorta wishy washy on that or it depends on what phase the moon is in or what mood I'm in or what music is playing at the time or.....!  

I will usually wet sand to 1000 then while the blank is on the lathe between centers and the polish is right there handy, I'll put a couple drops on and hit it with a smooth paper table napkin instead of a paper towel.  Then I'll step over to the buffing machine and hit it quickly with one wheel or both, again it depends on my mood and how the blank is looking.  About the ONLY thing I am consistant with is that I buff with the length of the pen or at a very slight angle but never sideways as if it were on the lathe spinning.  

Other times I'll take it straight to the buffer after wet sanding to 1000 or possibly 1500 and the gloss is just as nice as when I used the Novus.


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## brownsfn2 (Jan 5, 2012)

I got my package from caswell today. They kind of screwed up the order. I ordered 4 canton buffs and the two stick of compound. THey included the 4 canton buffs only the plastic-glo compound and a string buff seen pictured below. I was not able to call them when I got home but I will in the morning. In the meantime does anyone know what I do with this string buff? Is it good for anything?



Also I am thinking about making a mandrel for this setup and I thought I knew what I would do but I am not sure yet.  The hole through the buffs are 1/2 inch.  If I get a threaded rod that is 1/2 inch it will not fit into the taper for my mandrel.  Can I make my own taper and thread the rod all the way through?  If I use a bolt I will have to put a bowl chuck on my lathe to turn it.  What have you guys done?  I only have some tapers for mandrels, a bowl chuck and a collet for the 7mm mandrel.  Thanks.


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## SCR0LL3R (Jan 5, 2012)

I use the string buffs myself. They work fine. They are supposed to generate less heat for use on plastics.


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## JoeOCNJ (Jan 5, 2012)

I got the Barry gross buffing kit from PSI and I'm very pleased with the results it takes out all the little sanding marks and adds a nice shine to the pen.


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## Mack C. (Jan 6, 2012)

brownsfn2 said:


> > Also I am thinking about making a mandrel for this setup and I thought I knew what I would do but I am not sure yet. The hole through the buffs are 1/2 inch. If I get a threaded rod that is 1/2 inch it will not fit into the taper for my mandrel. Can I make my own taper and thread the rod all the way through? If I use a bolt I will have to put a bowl chuck on my lathe to turn it. What have you guys done? I only have some tapers for mandrels, a bowl chuck and a collet for the 7mm mandrel. Thanks.
> 
> 
> Hello Ron; I mentioned in one of my 1st posts to this thread how I made my Caswell buffing system. There is such a thing as a stub arbour in whatever MT you require. See here http://www.busybeetools.com/products/STUB-ARBOR-MT-2-X-1IN..html
> ...


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## brownsfn2 (Jan 6, 2012)

Thanks Mack.  Makes sense.  

I may ask this over in the tools discussion but do you guys know if I can take the Harbor Freight 6" buffer and put blocks under it to support my 8 inch flannel wheels?  That thing is only 40 bucks and looks like it would work for a dedicated system.


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## dogcatcher (Jan 6, 2012)

In my opinion the HF buffer runs too fast, 3600 rpm.


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## moke (Jan 6, 2012)

brownsfn2 said:


> Thanks Mack. Makes sense.
> 
> I may ask this over in the tools discussion but do you guys know if I can take the Harbor Freight 6" buffer and put blocks under it to support my 8 inch flannel wheels? That thing is only 40 bucks and looks like it would work for a dedicated system.


 
I tried a HF buffer, it was too aggressive. As Dogcather mentioned, it was because of excessive speed. I tried a Router speed control to slow it down and it lost all it's power, you could easily reach in and stop it. Macks solutions looks great. I finally ended up with a Beall Buff, it is great. It is not overpriced if you look at the cost of components. I used single buffs mounted on MT 2's and it was a lot of trouble continually changing them. 

I did have trouble with both Beall and Casswell not centering the holes on a couple of buff pads and it shook terribly. Maybe I missed something but the caswell holes were 3/8" off...Beall's one buff was almost as bad. I tried to manipulate the holes with no luck. I chose not to return them as shipping was as much as the pads, but you might want to watch that.


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## Mack C. (Jan 6, 2012)

dogcatcher said:


> In my opinion the HF buffer runs too fast, 3600 rpm.


I must admit, I didn't consider the speed of the buffer at all.

I run mine on the 2nd pulley which is 1270 rpm's. The 1st pulley is 480 rpm's, which might be somewhat slow!


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## Texatdurango (Jan 6, 2012)

brownsfn2 said:


> Thanks Mack. Makes sense.
> 
> I may ask this over in the tools discussion but do you guys know if I can take the Harbor Freight 6" buffer and put blocks under it to support my 8 inch flannel wheels? That thing is only 40 bucks and looks like it would work for a dedicated system.


 
I have the orange H/F 6" buffer P/N 94393 and if you are looking at the same model the shaft sits high enough from the bench that 8" buffs will clear everything without using any riser blocks.

I bought it because of the 3600 rpm speed!  I have a triple buff setup I used on my lathe but it just sits on a shelf somewhere these days.

I worked my way through college in a musical instrument repair shop and we used big fast buffers so I don't ind the speed at all.  Just a light touch when buffing and you'll be fine.


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## r1237h (Aug 5, 2012)

Mack C. said:


> Leviblue said:
> 
> 
> > Is there a disadvantage to changing out the Beal buffing wheels and replacing them with the Caswell systems mentioned? The shaft is already mated to the MT on the lathe.
> ...



Just to clarify, can one take the beall system, and simply use the compounds from Caswell? I ask because in the "Buffing - kicked up a notch" thread, it said to get flannel wheels. The beall system, if I understand correctly, has one linen wheel, one linen/flannel wheel, and one flannel wheel. In other words, will it give the hopefully amazing result if I use the linen/flannel wheel, and the flannel wheel?


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## Westbury (Aug 15, 2012)

hi I use the Beale system and swear by it .It might appear expensive. Ii is not.
          david


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