# Bethlehem Olive Wood



## spnemo (Sep 8, 2010)

Who has the best price for figured Bethlehem olive wood?  So far the best I've seen is about $2.25 per blank (shipping included).

Thanks,
Sean


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## ed4copies (Sep 8, 2010)

Both Monty and Nolan have BOW.  Probably not the cheapest, but you will be able to see the figure!!

I have purchased pretty "bland" BOW, that was said to be "figured".

Just a FWIW


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## Lenny (Sep 8, 2010)

ed4copies said:


> Both Monty and Nolan have BOW. Probably not the cheapest, but you will be able to see the figure!!
> 
> I have purchased pretty "bland" BOW, that was said to be "figured".
> 
> Just a FWIW


 

What Ed said!!!
I got my last batch of BOW from Nolan and it was VERY NICE!
Both guys are great to do business with as well!


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## ed4copies (Sep 8, 2010)

Now, if you got your prices directly FROM Bethlehem Olive Wood, out of Bethlehem---they have NICE wood, if you can wait six months for delivery.


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## GoodTurns (Sep 8, 2010)

ed4copies said:


> Now, if you got your prices directly FROM Bethlehem Olive Wood, out of Bethlehem---they have NICE wood, if you can wait six months for delivery.



yep...what do you have more of...time or money?


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## Andrew Arndts (Sep 8, 2010)

*kinda have to gloat.*

I purchased 20 BOW blanks Via eBay for $40 which included shipping.  it also had 110 BOW 8mm beads that I turned around and sold to a jewelry maker. for $20.  so in the end mine were $1.00 a blank....:biggrin:  Plus I got em in 10 days.


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## Scratch (Sep 8, 2010)

spnemo said:


> Who has the best price for figured Bethlehem olive wood?  So far the best I've seen is about $2.25 per blank (shipping included).



I'd like to find it for 2.25 a blank.:biggrin:
Best I've found was 3.00-3.50


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## spnemo (Sep 8, 2010)

I bought some off eBay since that was the cheapest I could find.  I have gotten blanks from them before, it takes a while but they are decent quality. I might have to order some from Nolan and/or Monty to see how they compare.


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## PenPal (Sep 8, 2010)

BOW I had a Jewish friend collect through his daughter in Jerusalem, paid the supplier in Bethlehem (Arab Occupied) exchanged by Taxi at a semi safe spot. Paid expenses to my friends daughter in Jerusalem cost was more than double all in US dollars.

My advice after lengthy delays numerous phone calls buy from IAP suppliers where you can select your own blanks to avoid the real problems buying from the source in Bethlehem yourself. At that time there was only the designation BOW Blanks not just blanks , figured etc.

The lottery for me in purchasing from Australia is selection is out of my hands, to date after a large number of purchases has ranged from ordinary to excellent quality blanks, prices all over the place. I commend those dealers who have honoured their commitments well, I am not in the name blame game. I will say I was flamed together with a large number of IAP members by an unscrupulous member really badly, my dismay was shared by a large number of folks at the time. He appears to have dissapeared from the scene thankfully for all concerned.

I admire the great variety of Pen Blank suppliers in the IAP for their range and service.

Take care Peter.


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## keithkarl2007 (Sep 8, 2010)

Andrew Arndts said:


> I purchased 20 BOW blanks Via eBay for $40 which included shipping.  it also had 110 BOW 8mm beads that I turned around and sold to a jewelry maker. for $20.  so in the end mine were $1.00 a blank....:biggrin:  Plus I got em in 10 days.



Can you recall the seller, my girlfriend has just taken up Jewelry Making


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## ed4copies (Sep 8, 2010)

Buy em by the hundred, Keith!!----$9

https://shop.rings-things.com/cart/...tCnt=10&keyword=olive+wood+beads&submit=Go+>>


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## Padre (Sep 8, 2010)

I have been to Israel 4 times now, hoping to go back again soon.  Made friends with the Nissan brothers in Bethlehem.  Efram and George are both good folks and they have quite the factory in their store basement.  I used to get bulk wood from them, but they don't sell it anymore.

I have resorted to buying mine from Ebay, and it comes directly from Israel.  However, another pen turner told me that some, if not most, of the time the wood comes from California, is shipped to Bethlehem and just re-posted in Bethlehem and shipped back.  Sigh.


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## Andrew Arndts (Sep 8, 2010)

keithkarl2007 said:


> Can you recall the seller, my girlfriend has just taken up Jewelry Making




Sent ya a pm with that info.


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## robutacion (Sep 8, 2010)

Padre said:


> I have been to Israel 4 times now, hoping to go back again soon.  Made friends with the Nissan brothers in Bethlehem.  Efram and George are both good folks and they have quite the factory in their store basement.  I used to get bulk wood from them, but they don't sell it anymore.
> 
> I have resorted to buying mine from Ebay, and it comes directly from Israel.  However, another pen turner told me that some, if not most, of the time the wood comes from California, is shipped to Bethlehem and just re-posted in Bethlehem and shipped back.  Sigh.



Actually Padre, the big bulk of the wood that is sold as BOW, is imported from the South of Italy, where the best and most Olive wood exists.  Containers are loaded up with this wood and exported to Bethlehem/Jerusalem/Israel, etc., in a weekly bases.  Wood is then cut into pen & BT stopper blanks and sent all over the world as BOW.

The true and original BOW has been non existent for many years, is just not possible to get that much wood from trims from the few old trees left, and those never leave the country, they are fearsomely sourced by local craft shops where the only raw material used is the Olive wood (the original...).

Really, it doesn't take much thinking to realise that was just not possible to provide so much Olive from a very small resource, now totally protected by Government. The demand has forced the import of Olive wood from the best sources they (original suppliers and now a lot of others that saw the opportunity) can find, there is a Olive tree species that has the age and the characteristics of the original BOW.
California has indeed nice Olive wood and I have no doubt that some of it is going to Bethlehem also.

My olive wood has come from the same source (South Italy) as seedlings, and planted in this area (SA [Fleureau Peninsula] Australia) in the first half of the 1800's by Italian Settlers.  Does it make it BOW, absolutely not, it only makes it AOW (Australian Olive Wood) or FPOW as I call it and to be accurate (Fleureau Peninsula Olive Wood).

The BOW Olive wood issue has been discussed to exhaustion everywhere, everyday for a long time, in all sort of Internet locations and others, nevertheless it still brings the same curiosity and passion as when it all started, years ago, I know because I've been there from the beginning.

Some people don't like to be told that their BOW is not BOW, others prefer not to know about it, particularly those with a religious interest in the meaning of the true BOW, I can understand that as myself, with a European background I learnt to respect and admire the Olive tree as a symbol, regardless where that tree is growing.

The Olive Tree symbolizes a lot of things I like and respect, apart from the fact that has been one of my preferred woods since a little kid.  I've made furniture from it, house pillars and other house interior ornamental pieces, I even done a donkey push car trolley wheels out of Olive wood and many other pieces that I forgot.  Not the easiest woods to work with but certainly one of the best to achieve stunning results...!

There is a lot of people out there that has a similar passion, respect and admiration for this wood, and I don't believe that the origin of the tree in this case is relevant, sure having a "piece" of Olive wood from one of the old (2.000 years old) Olive trees from Bethlehem would be something that some would pay good money for.  Is it pretty wood...??? maybe yes maybe not, the same tree produce both and trimmings are 90% sapwood so the odds are you could get just a piece of yellow Olive wood.  Would it matter to those that really want to have that small piece of wood as something close to their heart...??? no, not at all...!

So, for the purpose the OP started this thread for/about, sourcing good quality and high figured Olive wood is not difficult, eBay and many other places have excellent suppliers.  Are they being honest in not "tagging" their Olive wood as BOW for a higher financial reward, if they know has come from elsewhere...??? probably not all but, a few minority will...!

You find those suppliers and you stick with them, they normally sell what they say they sell, you try and if you like it you continue to buy if not, you simple try the next one...!:wink:

I'm sorry for my long post, I'm all forwards for nice figured Olive wood, is plenty out there for a fair price...!:biggrin:

Cheers
George


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## David Keller (Sep 8, 2010)

George, the old Australian olive root that you sent me in our last exchange is some of the prettiest olive that I've ever seen...  It looks like olive burl.  It's much nicer looking that the BOW/JOW that I've seen.  I've got some California olive that I got from wolfdancer a while back...  It, too, is much better figured than most of what I've seen listed under the title of BOW/JOW.


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## rjwolfe3 (Sep 8, 2010)

Would you mind pointing me to some sources of this info on BOW not being BOW? I ask because I have these COA's that came with this wood. If this wood is really not BOW then I can't sell it as such.




robutacion said:


> Padre said:
> 
> 
> > I have been to Israel 4 times now, hoping to go back again soon.  Made friends with the Nissan brothers in Bethlehem.  Efram and George are both good folks and they have quite the factory in their store basement.  I used to get bulk wood from them, but they don't sell it anymore.
> ...


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## robutacion (Sep 9, 2010)

rjwolfe3 said:


> Would you mind pointing me to some sources of this info on BOW not being BOW? I ask because I have these COA's that came with this wood. If this wood is really not BOW then I can't sell it as such.



Your question is pertinent and has been asked many times before, I will answer to you the best way I can within the legal terms and responsibilities of my claim which I have the photographic and correspondence exchange "evidence" from the source (the Italian Olive wood supplier himself).  Names, prices, sizes, quantities, and destiny were all discussed, together with a fair amount of pics of the whole operation/process.

I was actually contacted by this person, after he read and find out my involvement with Olive wood, which has been openly shared with everyone for about 6 years or maybe a little more...!  The whole think started as an attempt to have me as his distributor here in Australia, and the whole discussions took some amazing turns when I requested "verification" of his identity and position.

Now, I was asked confidentiality on the discloser of any evidence publicly and I can perfectly understand why, in fact, and as I found out some time later, all the individuals from Bethlehem buying Olive from Italy and selling it as BOW find out that I know about it, from something I said in a open forum where one of these suppliers was posting, in no time this person was an-contactable through the forum, and never posted again...!    

If you want to ready thousands of posts about this issue and others that know what has been going on for a long time about the issue but, have never manage to get the "evidence" or maybe the evidence was in front of their eyes but they never realised it, you simply do a search on the subject, I will guarantee you plenty of results...!

The question is very simple, do you believe that a tinny piece of paper is sufficient to authenticate a product...???
Do you believe that this claim has legs...???
Do you believe that would too easy for anyone to sell BOW...???
Do you believe that the person selling these blanks to you is totally unaware that is a good chance that the blanks are not what they are suppose to be...???
Can anyone print these "certificates"...???            
What do you want to believe...???

I have said this a million times and I repeat it again, you have the choice to believe in all this or not, and only you can decided what you want to do about it, if this issue concerns you badly.  I'm not telling you or anyone else what you should or not to do, but I feel you and everyone else have the right to know about the possibilities...!

Please, don't try to make this any more than what it is, I wouldn't appreciate it, you have the right of not believing in anything I say/said, instead you could see it as just an interesting subject...!:wink:

Interestingly, I had a fair number of emails from other wood-turners over these pass few years, telling me that, they couldn't care less where the Olive wood comes from, when they decided to buy or use Olive wood, is because they want to enjoy the nice smell it produces while turning and the final results/appearance when finished, nothing more nothing else...!:biggrin:

Cheers
George


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## Lenny (Sep 9, 2010)

I'm glad MY certificates are the real deal!  :biggrin::biggrin::wink:




"I know it's true because I saw it on TV" 
John Fogerty


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## Andrew Arndts (Sep 9, 2010)

Yikes
I would hope that what I got with a Israeli post mark on the box was the real deal.

Granted I can see a Deceitful international ring of Olive wood distributors taking Mediterranean Olive Wood, Shipping :airplane: to Israel then repacking it be shipped to points unknown.  

Though that sounds unprofitable yet not implausible.


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## rjwolfe3 (Sep 9, 2010)

George, I am not saying I don't believe you, I just asked for some proof. You said that no olivewood coming out of Israel is native from Israel and I have a hard time believing that since you won't name your sources.

When I purchase something from someone I tend to believe what that supplier is telling me unless proven otherwise. 

For example, the historical wood that is sold at Exotics Blanks. I believe that the wood is from where ever they say it is because no one has proven that it isn't. I was not there at the historical location to watch it being cut down so how do I know? Simple, I believe my supplier.

As far as BOW is concerned this is the first I have heard of it not being from Israel and I have been frequenting wood forums for over 10 years. I definitely do not remember this ever being brought up on this forum. I am not trying to be argumentative here, I am trying to be educated so that I am selling a correct product.




robutacion said:


> rjwolfe3 said:
> 
> 
> > Would you mind pointing me to some sources of this info on BOW not being BOW? I ask because I have these COA's that came with this wood. If this wood is really not BOW then I can't sell it as such.
> ...


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## ed4copies (Sep 9, 2010)

Rob,

Unless you have been standing next to the guy cutting the tree down, you need to be able to "trust".

In the case of our historical woods, we make every effort to "vet" the wood to be certain it is what we have been told.  Diver's certificates are really nice and we have them for the Doria (the most expensive wood we have handled).  When it comes to BOW, or JOW, there are dozens of small merchants who handle the product and it is shipped from Israel.  To ME, this is reasonable assurance for a blank that is less than $10 to purchase.

After all, if it came from Italy, it MAY have been touched by the POPE, himself!!  Much holier than a bunch of Isreaelis with machine guns!!!

You do the best research you can, but the wood really has no magic, no matter WHERE it came from.  That (magic or "holiness") is in the brain of the buyer, who BELIEVES it came from some special source.

TO THEM, it has special meaning---we do our best to confirm it's pedigree!!


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## rjwolfe3 (Sep 9, 2010)

Ed I hope you didn't think that I thought your wood was not right. I was just using the first example that I thought of. I do trust all of my suppliers because none of them have given me reason not too.



ed4copies said:


> Rob,
> 
> Unless you have been standing next to the guy cutting the tree down, you need to be able to "trust".
> 
> ...


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## ed4copies (Sep 9, 2010)

Rob,
I took your comments in  the spirit you posted--not as an accusation, but as a request.  

In the end, wood is wood.  You do your best to be honest with the customer.  But, honestly, do you think a piece of wood changes your customer's behavior based on where it has been???

So, sell it as Bethlehem, Jerusalem or, if you want to be REAL safe, Mediterranean.  

When I sell olive, I frequently ask the customer if they ever buy olives or olive oil.  With the price of those products, we can say with certainty that the pen blank was beyond its "bearing years" --- so no trees were damaged that were capable of producing olives!!

And I usually say it is from the Mediterranean Sea area, where Olive trees are plentiful.  Could even be from Bethlehem---that's what I was told when I bought it!!


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## robutacion (Sep 10, 2010)

rjwolfe3 said:


> As far as BOW is concerned this is the first I have heard of it not being from Israel and I have been frequenting wood forums for over 10 years. I definitely do not remember this ever being brought up on this forum. I am not trying to be argumentative here, I am trying to be educated so that I am selling a correct product.



Where have you been mate...!!! I found your comment above absolutely amazing and unexpected, in fact unbelievable...! 

I strongly suggest you to do 2 things as soon as you can, firstly do a search on the present situation of the Olives trees in Israel, find out what is left, what size they are, who owns them and what happen to the "pruning's" as they call it.

Get the actual facts from the Government sites and not webs sites made by those trying to sell Olive wood from that area.

Find out who keeps those trims and find out how big they are, or what size heartwood is in a 2" to 4" max trimmed branches...!

Find out how many of the old trees are left and how protected they are...!

Then when you done with all that, look on all my posts list here, and read those related to olive wood.  If that is not enough, go to the Australian wood workers forum and do a search on Olive wood issues, look for my forum name in there, if still not satisfied, have a look on my web site, and if wasn't for the fact that the Canadian Paradise pen turners forum has banned me and removed every letter that I wrote, every pic that I posted and indeed any traces that I ever been a member of that forum for nearly 18 months, I would be giving you them as reference for a search in the subject too...!

This another one of "those" subjects that have created very heated arguments in many places but never once, I and many others have ever been given proof that this is not the truth, in fact many other people out there already got the proof they needed that this situation has been going on for quite some time.

There has been an enormous POSITIVE sight of making people aware that they are probably not getting what they thing they are, even if it has a printed certificate and the parcel stamp is from Israel, and there is, the prices. Some time ago, you wouldn't buy a BOW "labelled" Olive wood blank for less than $5, now you can get them for half that price, why do you think that is...???

I do feel sorry for those people that pay good money to get the original BOW wood, particular those with religious inclination, those that this situation have target specifically, remember millions of people all over the world, then we have all the wood suppliers that bought the wood in good faith and are selling it also in good faith, only to find out that, they have been used...!

Just think for a minute of the old olive wood (the one with commercial heartwood value) that the country can produce and the PHENOMENAL amount of Olive wood that is posted/shopped every day, all over the world...! make your sums, they don't add up, it just couldn't...!

Is the Olive wood people are getting, good...??? 80% of it it is, Italian wood is just some of the best in the world but, that is not the point is it...???:wink:

Look at this way, some time ago, you would find difficult and extremely expensive to get decent Olive wood, now you have as many options as you could thing of, for half of the  money so, not everything is a loss...!:biggrin:

Cheers
George


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## robutacion (Sep 10, 2010)

ed4copies said:


> Rob,
> I took your comments in  the spirit you posted--not as an accusation, but as a request.
> 
> In the end, wood is wood.  You do your best to be honest with the customer.  But, honestly, do you think a piece of wood changes your customer's behavior based on where it has been???
> ...



Ed,

From what you're saying I can see that the subject is not totally new to you, nor I believe it would be in fact, you have apparently taken steps to be as truthful as you can with those that you sell your Olive wood too, I commend you for that...!

The sad/true fact is that, unless you call it BOW and you provide a printed certificate with the blank, most people won't buy, particular the religious orientated people and those that want the maximum return from selling a pen in Olive wood, even if they don't believe it, that small piece of paper is all they have to ask for higher price, fair enough...!

The true also has been proven time and time again, when it comes to selling a Olive wood pen blank and a made pen with Olive wood, you display a very ordinary BOW pen blank with a certificated behind it for $5 and next to it you display another Olive pen blank, this time you select the best looking blank you ever saw, and tag it as Australian, Californian, Russian or other country origin, and mark it at $2.50, which one do you thing will sell first and why...!

Make yourself 2 pens with the same kit made out of Olive wood, one with an ordinary piece of Olive and the other with and exceptional piece of Olive, now display the ordinary pen with the "certificate" behind/under it for twice of the value/amount of the best looking Olive wood pen, again which one will sell first and why...!

What stops anyone to print those "certificates", buy local Olive wood, make some blanks and sell them as BOW, either in pen blank format or finished pen format...??? or if someone don't want to worry about printing these certificates and simply order some BOW blanks just to get the certificates and if they have a access to exceptional hand selected Olive wood pen blanks for half of the price, they simple use the better blanks (non-BOW) and use the certificate on the finished pen, and voila...! what's the difficulty in that, is all business, huh...???

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of being able to make a buck or two for my efforts, nothing wrong with that but, what really upsets me with this real BOW and non-real BOW issue is the fact that, most of those affected/target are those with religious background and inclination/believe, these people have been taken for a ride for a long time, and that is not right...!

Another thing that I find hilarious is the attempt to be environmental conscious about the health and well being of the Olive Trees by making that end of the page "claim", [no damage was done to the tree to produce this wood...,bla, bla, bla...!] or something of that effect...! Came on people, how silly they think we are...??? 

Cheers
George


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## robutacion (Sep 10, 2010)

spnemo said:


> Who has the best price for figured Bethlehem olive wood?  So far the best I've seen is about $2.25 per blank (shipping included).
> 
> Thanks,
> Sean



Sean,

Sorry mate, you made a simple question and I don't thing that you were given a proper answer, instead we all got involved with details, from which you can learn something, I'm sure..!:wink::biggrin:

Anyway, If you know where you can get good figured BOW Olive wood for $2.50 including shipping, I don't really thing that you will find any better.

Even if the Olive wood is not BOW, for exceptionally figured Olive wood pen blanks that price is very good.  I believe you are in the US and that these blanks are also in the US as the freight from overseas would make those blanks a lot more expensive, for sure. 

Olive wood has become a lot more accessible and affordable to a degree, these last few years so I have no doubt that you will find many other Olive wood suppliers, including on eBay...!

Good luck...!

Cheers
George


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## robutacion (Sep 10, 2010)

Andrew Arndts said:


> Yikes
> I would hope that what I got with a Israeli post mark on the box was the real deal.
> 
> Granted I can see a Deceitful international ring of Olive wood distributors taking Mediterranean Olive Wood, Shipping :airplane: to Israel then repacking it be shipped to points unknown.
> ...



Hi Andrew,

You would be surprised how profitable it is, as you would be surprised of the reasonably low prices you can get good Olive wood from Italy, either in log form or cut into blocks green or kiln dry, if you have the capital to invest in at least one 22' container.  I'm not going to disclose the prices I was offer some time ago but I can tell you that I would make 3 times more money in selling this imported Olive wood, than what is costing me to sell Olive wood from 150 years old trees that I cut myself...!

This mean that I had obviously rejected the distribution rights they offered me, I don't have that sort of capital nor I'm interested in become a business.
They sell it by the cubic meter by the tonne but specially they like to sell it by the "quintal" which represents 100kg.  Euro is the only currency accepted, and goods are sent as soon as the money hits they account.

They get a considerable number of visitors form Israel, that see the samples, production, stock, lock the deal, make the deposit and fly home. 3 months or so later the container arrives and then is all hands on deck, cutting it into pen blanks mostly...!

There has a high increase of new people (dealers) from Israel buying such wood and containers, about 2 years ago when the BOW price was still high but certainly the prices have decreased due to "certain pressures" and some of those guys got stuck with a lot of Olive that is not profitable as before so they just try to get rid-of-it at cost price if possible and look for other better business opportunities to invest their money on...!

These Olive wood cubs/blocks are very interesting, they are about 12" x 12" x 10" and they have to come from large olive trees indeed, top stuff...!  Just imagine a 22' container full of dry blocks like these...! $$$$$$$$$$$:biggrin:

OK, I'm going to show a "edited" pic with a small portion of a pallet ready to go into a loading bay.  The picture is modified to show only, how these blocks look like, don't ask for any more because you ain't gora get it...! I was not suppose to even do this but it will be alright...!

Cheers
George


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## rjwolfe3 (Sep 10, 2010)

George when I have more time, I will do a little research into this. However, I think it is funny for this being such a hot topic why are you the only one proclaiming it to be true. I see no one else agreeing with you at this time. I am not saying you are wrong or right because I don't know. You seem to have done some research from what I can extract from your posts. I will leave it at that until I do my own research but if anyone would like to pm me supporting George's claims I would love to hear from you.

I apologize to the original poster for stepping all over his thread. If I decide to continue this discussion I will start a new thread.


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## spnemo (Sep 10, 2010)

I did search the news for stories on olive trees in Israel.  It turns out that many of the trees are being destroyed cultural and military reasons.  Others are trying to protect the trees for their symbolic significance to both Arabs and Jews.  

However,  I could not find anything that suggested this is a wide spread problem.  Nor could I find anything to suggest the blanks I am getting from Jerusalem actually come from Italy.  I can't imagine that they could make any money unless they were being shipped directly from the source.  

I don't have enough of a reason to doubt the claims of the seller.  However, I some of what George says seems plausable.  I don't think I will ever be able to find the truth without actually going to the source and seeing it for myself.

For now, I will continue to do what I have done from the beginning.  I call it Bethlehem Olive Wood and give out the COA's but I make it clear that _this claim of my supplier_ and I can't prove it one way or the other.


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## Padre (Sep 10, 2010)

robutacion said:


> Padre said:
> 
> 
> > I have been to Israel 4 times now, hoping to go back again soon.  Made friends with the Nissan brothers in Bethlehem.  Efram and George are both good folks and they have quite the factory in their store basement.  I used to get bulk wood from them, but they don't sell it anymore.
> ...



Having been to Israel many times, I support your assertion about the lack of trees, how protected they are and that the native olive wood is like gold.  Even the Nissan brothers never claim their olive wood is from Bethlehem, or even Israel!  And their factory is in Bethlehem!


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## Padre (Sep 10, 2010)

rjwolfe3 said:


> George when I have more time, I will do a little research into this. However, I think it is funny for this being such a hot topic why are you the only one proclaiming it to be true. I see no one else agreeing with you at this time. I am not saying you are wrong or right because I don't know. You seem to have done some research from what I can extract from your posts. I will leave it at that until I do my own research but if anyone would like to pm me supporting George's claims I would love to hear from you.
> 
> I apologize to the original poster for stepping all over his thread. If I decide to continue this discussion I will start a new thread.



I am the one who kind of hijacked it with my comments.  I too apologize to the original poster.


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## DCBluesman (Sep 10, 2010)

A momentary diversion...

What value is a certificate of authenticity? 15 years ago the sports memorabilia market was flooded with Babe Ruth, Knute Rockner and Bobby Jones signatures which were always accompanied with COA's.  95% of these were found to be obvious frauds. The COA is worth nothing more than the paper it is written on. I would think that the same is true for woods like this.  I'd rather have the storyline as evidence of provenance.

One more thing.  Mediterranean olive (_Olea europaea_), which grows all over the Mediterranean Sea area including Bethlehem, is not the same as Russian/California olive.  Russian/California olive is an ornamental shrub, _Elaeagnus angustifolia_.


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## rjwolfe3 (Sep 10, 2010)

The point, I think, is that we as pen makers get charged more from BOW or JOW then for regular olivewood. I can buy regular olivewood for under $2 from quite a few places. However when I want BOW or JOW I expect to pay more because it is coming from those places. If I were unethical I would buy regular olivewood and then sell it to my customers as BOW/JOW. I am not like that and I won't sell BOW/JOW on a pen if I don't have at least some assurance from my supplier that it came from over there. My customers have to trust me just like I have to trust my suppliers. I have no way of knowing where any of my blanks come from for sure without going and getting them myself. I understand the COA can be worthless but like I said, I trust my suppliers. Saying that BOW is not BOW could be similar to saying that Jack Daniels blank aren't from Jack Daniels and that the historical woods are not from where they say they are. At some point we just have to trust our suppliers and take things at face value.

Dangit I said I wasn't going to keep hijacking this thread, lol.


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## Padre (Sep 10, 2010)

New thread here!


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