# Tired of all this



## keithbyrd (Nov 4, 2015)

I logged in tonight to read a few logs, see a few pens, maybe encourage somebody, maybe see something that I wiould like to try.  But once again we have three or four people who decide its time to jump into a post and start ctiticizing and taking cheap shots at each other.  Sometimes I feel like I am reading posts by a bunch of disgruntled and self centered pre schoolers.  Sorry for being so negative but I am giving serious consideration to leaving the IAP over the pettiness I continue to see.  The IAP won't lose much if I leave- I am the loser - But I am finding more and more of the time that I can spend my time more constructively not logging into the IAP.


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## OKLAHOMAN (Nov 4, 2015)

Keith, please accept my apology for anything that I might have posted to add to your displeasure with the IAP. The IAP is made up of some of the best folks you'll ever find. There are always in a group some that will argue with the wall and I have always tried to avoid the bait and I happen to fall into the trap that was set. Please stay as we need level thinking folks like you here to keep me straight .


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## magpens (Nov 4, 2015)

Keith, please stay.

I had the same thoughts as you both yesterday and today.

But there is so much good here that I decided it is worth it to stay.


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## bobleibo (Nov 4, 2015)

keithbyrd said:


> I logged in tonight to read a few logs, see a few pens, maybe encourage somebody, maybe see something that I wiould like to try.  But once again we have three or four people who decide its time to jump into a post and start ctiticizing and taking cheap shots at each other.  Sometimes I feel like I am reading posts by a bunch of disgruntled and self centered pre schoolers.  Sorry for being so negative but I am giving serious consideration to leaving the IAP over the pettiness I continue to see.  The IAP won't lose much if I leave- I am the loser - But I am finding more and more of the time that I can spend my time more constructively not logging into the IAP.


 
I wish I could hit the "like" button a dozen times for this. I faded away for 2 years once because of people who did nothing but stir up trouble. Then I realized exactly what you said, I was the one losing out. 
For every 1 trouble maker, there are 999 great people here who I have learned so much from that it makes it worth sticking around. Eventually the trouble makers fade away - some are just a little slower than others.


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## maxwell_smart007 (Nov 5, 2015)

Please consider using the ignore feature on your profile - then those members just disappear from your view, and you'll never have to read their posts again.


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## TonyL (Nov 5, 2015)

Just like in baseball,football, most sports... if there is little or no officiating everything falls apart.  

in a related issue: suppliers...some of you have reached an all time low, by participating publicly, and inciting more ignoble exchanges. Most would-be patrons won't express their dissatisfaction, they will just shop elsewhere - people buy from people they like especially when it comes to patronizing smaller family-oriented enterprises.
Despite being men and women before you are vendors and trusted advisers, I would think you (plural) would be aware of the higher regard that you are held to. Customers are buying from YOU and want a relationship with someone they trust and respect.....we can get the kits anywhere.

IAP staff ....we don't spend $50 on a mug because we think it is a good deal (and yes, I know no one is getting rich on them). I think most buy them to support something that they are proud to be associated with.

We know the folks that seem to be fighting some old battles and avenging hurt feelings, and we know they use the IAP as forum for their schoolyard antics. Why folks choose to participate in them, I don't know. And then the comments are followed by some transparent pretext that the membership is supposed to believe...what's the average or median age here? It has to be in the early 50s. You tell me that we don't have enough life experience to smell garbage or a argument in the making? 

I have met some of the best people in the world here. I slept over their homes and some have slept over mine. And I have a couple coming on Monday and Tuesday. However, It is getting to the point where for me the negatives of visiting the IAP are outweighing the positives.

Well, I must have broken a few rules here. I would be delighted to accept the consequences. I am signing out for two weeks unless the moderators make it permanent. Jeff and several others founded this and it is their prerogative to do what they want to and to keep whom they want to keep. It has survived/thrived for 12 years, and will most likely be around long after I am worm food. 

Mike Redburn...I will honor my commitment to sponsor a prize for the loser's contest.
If you don't want it..I understand. 

Thanks to all that have treated me selflessly with their friendship and expertise.


Peace to all. Taking a vacation.


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## SteveG (Nov 5, 2015)

I COMMAND YOU TO STAY.

Obviously I cannot do that, but how about if I say "Please"? 

As others have mentioned, there are ways to avoid the few who typically cause unpleasantness. Maybe you can give that a try? We (IAP collectively) will gain if you are still here tomorrow. I hope you will rethink the thoughts about departing. Thanks for reading my sincere thoughts. ALOHA!


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## magpens (Nov 5, 2015)

Please, Tony - Stay


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## Bob Wemm (Nov 5, 2015)

magpens said:


> Please, Tony - Stay


 
And from me too Tony.
Have your holiday but be sure to come back again.

Bob.


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## keithbyrd (Nov 5, 2015)

maxwell_smart007 said:


> Please consider using the ignore feature on your profile - then those members just disappear from your view, and you'll never have to read their posts again.



Yes I know that the ignore button will shut some out of my view - however I think the biggest offenders here have an awful lot to offer and I have learned a lot when they act like adults. 
*Proverbs 16:7**     When a man’s ways please the LORD, He makes even his enemies to be at peace with him. 
* Proverbs 16:32**  Whoever is slow to anger is better than the mighty, and he who rules his spirit than he who takes a city. 
*Proverbs 17:14**   The beginning of strife is like letting out water, so quit before the quarrel breaks out. 
*Proverbs 17:28**   Even a fool who keeps silent is considered wise; when he closes his lips, he is deemed intelligent. 
*Proverbs 19:11**   Good sense makes one slow to anger, and it is his glory to overlook an offense.
*Proverbs 20:3**    It is an honor for a man to keep aloof from strife, but every fool will be quarreling. 
*  Proverbs 26:20** For lack of wood the fire goes out, and where there is no whisperer, quarreling ceases. 
* Proverbs 26:21**  As charcoal to hot embers and wood to fire, so is a quarrelsome man for kindling strife. 

I don't mean to preach but there is some profound wisdom in the above proverbs!


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## TonyL (Nov 5, 2015)

I am just taking a two week break  from viewing posts.  See you in a fortnight!


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## jttheclockman (Nov 5, 2015)

This stuff has been going on for as long as this site has been in existence as with most sites. Thankfully it is not an everyday occurance and is far and few in between.  I too have left this site on a couple occasions and it was due to the direct attack of a few here and not from reading.  Reading you can always avoid but when you are being attacked all the time that takes on a different feel. So leaving because of reading of the feuds is pointless. You are hurting no one but your self. Being constantly attacked is another problem that at times quiets down but then again raises its ugly heads. It becomes a matter of how much can one take. If you can look the other way then you are the stronger person but if it starts affecting others around you then you must stand and fight and it then is up to the people in charge to take charge. I returned on the persuasive emails from a few members here. Others have not returned at all. Many times this is our loss as a whole. I believe I still have some value that some people may find useful. I still get the occasional onslaught but I have dealt with it. 

My point I guess is this. Yes it looks bad for any site. But before we condemn someone know all the facts and yes if you leave just because of reading then that one is on you. As mentioned the ignore feature works well.  Humans what are we going to do with them???:biggrin:


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## Sabaharr (Nov 5, 2015)

I be mussa missed sumthin.


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## Skie_M (Nov 5, 2015)

Sabaharr said:


> I be mussa missed sumthin.



That's probably actually a good thing. :tongue:


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## Jim Smith (Nov 5, 2015)

I am a huge fan of one of greatest statesman of all time, Winston Churchill; and I try to live by his speech to the people of Great Britian during WWII; "Never, Never, Never Give up".  When I come across the Negative Nellies spewing their "stuff", I simply ignore them.  It's not always easy, but I get so much from IAP, that I refuse the let them spoil my experience and drive me away from the cyber-friends I have here.  Hang in there and don't be afraid to call them out when they get into one of their hissy fights.  Admittedly, there are times when I feel like saying "Now children, if you make me stop this car...",  but I don't want to join their squabbles so I just push through it and look for the nuggets of golden inspiration I find here like the pen on the front page now.  Jim Smith


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## stonepecker (Nov 5, 2015)

Happily I know very little about what has/is happening.  More important I could care less.   It has nothing to do with me.   And even if it did, I would deal with it outside of the IAP.

The IAP is a wonderful site for what we learn here.  The "family" here is something I feel that is important.  Sadly, even family members find themselves in petty disagreements.  The really bad thing is when someone not involved steps in.  There are times that nobody can 'fix' the problem.  It is what it is and will continue to be.

Any member can have an opinion.  As adults, we choose who to interact with.  As customers we choose who to support.  And as friends, we sometimes get carried away with the moment.  NONE of this is a bad thing.......it is in the natural way we are made.   We are all human beings with faults and everything else.

Sometimes the best thing is to walk away.  But to leave the IAP because of a few people is only hurting yourself.  You ened up missing out on the 98% of the good that happens here.

There is nothing wrong in taking a vacation from here.  We do it with work.  We do it with hobbies, We do it with many things in our daily lives.  What seems to be making the stink here is that the membership is giving to much value to those few that have a problem.  As a friend, we listen to the people we like and try to help them.  But a true friend lets others fight their own battles and stay out of the middle of things.

I don't want to see anyone leave the IAP.  But as an adult and member, I know I have no control how others behave or how they think/react/judge to what is happening around them.

Sometimes the best thing to do is ignore the trouble makers and move on with your life.  Again, I wish that nobody leaves and I wish everyone the best in their lives.

Time moves so fast and there are times we wish we could turn those hands back.
Peace to all.


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## mark james (Nov 5, 2015)

Last weekend I visited with two IAP friends and was able to watch them play with a metal lathe.  Last Friday I received a Skype phone call from another IAP friend in another country - we chatted for 1 hr and 15 minutes.  The weekend before I visited the great folks in Wisconsin.

There are GREAT folks here *(and some rotten apples)*...  It is very challanging at times, but I try to focus on the 98% positive instead of the 2% negative (I don't do this all the time :frown.

And finally, when I read some knuckle-heads being mean-spirited, I try to learn from what they are teaching me... 

*TO APPRECIATE EVERYONE ELSE!​*
(Maybe we need a few bad apples to really appreciate the nice ones (yes, I do realize that I am just rationalizing, but it helps me). But, I do realize that rotten apples may really stink! :biggrin:


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## beck3906 (Nov 5, 2015)

I take a different approach.

I cannot watch soap operas during the day, so I read some of the posts here to get my "drama".  Some of it almost becomes a tear jerker.  :biggrin:

I just read and usually move on.  Most of these types of posts are just entertainment for me.


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## maxwell_smart007 (Nov 5, 2015)

Yes, there are people who try the patience of moderators - but we don't ban them unless they break egregious rules...why not?  If we did, then we'd have banned some of the members that are now some of the most prominent and helpful people on the site.  

Sometimes people act like they're involved in a food fight in the cafeteria...but more often than not, the site functions like a round table discussion...if a food fight breaks out, try reading in a different room!  Move on to a different room, and listen to a different discussion...the lack of an audience diffuses most arguments.  

I teach my students resilience by telling them the famous sentiment that used to be spoken to Roman emperors during a triumph - "this too, shall pass". (also a phrase attributed to Persian and/or Chinese sources)

If you're wondering why we're not deleting posts where people are acting like donkeys, it's because we don't like to do that - we only remove those that violate the rules, and we don't delete posts lightly.  

The IAP is quite dynamic, and it sometimes has argument (it's inevitable when you have this many personalities in one area).  As in all things, the arguments will end -  "this too, shall pass".  We're a strong, forgiving community - and if we let a few proverbial bad apples spoil the barrel for thousands of good ones, it would be a terrible shame. 

Andrew
assistant moderator


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## jd420214 (Nov 5, 2015)

I,m a  newbie on here just really starting out turning pens I quit showing my pens because of some nasty comments I know there there not perfect but just want some in sight on what I might of did wrong or a tip to correct it.
 When I see the nasty comments thats when I stop ready the post dont get me wrong but I have also gotten some good tips also which keeps me coming back.
 Keith I work just down the road  at the proving grounds nice to see a few people close to me.


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## Krash (Nov 5, 2015)

jd420214 said:


> I,m a  newbie on here just really starting out turning pens I quit showing my pens because of some nasty comments I know there there not perfect but just want some in sight on what I might of did wrong or a tip to correct it.
> When I see the nasty comments thats when I stop ready the post dont get me wrong but I have also gotten some good tips also which keeps me coming back.
> Keith I work just down the road  at the proving grounds nice to see a few people close to me.


 
Dave,

I went and looked at your pens and you have nothing to be shy about. Those antler pens are great!

Keep posting and asking for input. You'll get good feedback even if given awkwardly.


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## Smitty37 (Nov 5, 2015)

*Hmmmmmmmm*

When I log in to this site I go to the Home page.  I scan down through the posts - If I see one that looks interesting, I open it and read the OP.  If that seems interesting I read the responses.  If I feel like responding to the OP or another response, or have something to contribute I respond and will then subscribe to that thread and follow it until I get tired of it. When I get tired of it I stop following it.

Notice a couple of things here:



I am not obligated to read any thread I don't want to read.
I am not obligated to respond to any thread I don't want to respond to.
I can stop following any thread whenever I want to.
I can put anyone on "ignore" and not have to read their responses if I choose not to read them.
I understand that people will disagree and that there are people here who don't like each other.  That is their problem. It's not mine.
In short, each of us is  totally in control of our experience here.  No one else has any effect on it that we don't let them have.
Stay or leave...that's your choice....but you could be cutting off your nose to spite your face.


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## tbroye (Nov 5, 2015)

I am like Stonepecker,  I must have missed something other than H2O.   It is interesting to read some of nasty threads just to see who you want to avoid.  I have been warned by Moderators in past when I have ventured to far politicly but I have never been in a heated discussion of flame job.  For the most part bad apples leave after a while for lack of attention if not then the Mods take care of them.


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## jcm71 (Nov 5, 2015)

Smitty37 said:


> When I log in to this site I go to the Home page.  I scan down through the posts - If I see one that looks interesting, I open it and read the OP.  If that seems interesting I read the responses.  If I feel like responding to the OP or another response, or have something to contribute I respond and will then subscribe to that thread and follow it until I get tired of it. When I get tired of it I stop following it.
> 
> Notice a couple of things here:
> 
> ...



You are completely in your last sentence, Smitty.  However, you could be throwing out the baby with the bath water.  :biggrin:


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## Smitty37 (Nov 5, 2015)

BURLMAN said:


> Smitty37 said:
> 
> 
> > When I log in to this site I go to the Home page.  I scan down through the posts - If I see one that looks interesting, I open it and read the OP.  If that seems interesting I read the responses.  If I feel like responding to the OP or another response, or have something to contribute I respond and will then subscribe to that thread and follow it until I get tired of it. When I get tired of it I stop following it.
> ...


Well I could have said that too or in place of what I did say....The main point is simply "don't read the posts you don't like":eat:


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## greggas (Nov 5, 2015)

In my 6 years on IAP I have seen this same scenario play out probably a half dozen times.  This site is no different than most other sites based on interaction.  There is always gong to be conflict that ebbs and flows...we are humans after all.  I think most of us that have frequented this site for years take breaks from visiting when needed and then inevitably come back for the love of pen making and the fact that this site is one of the better ones for that subject matter.

If I see a post(s) going in a direction I do not enjoy I simply stop reading.  I think that is the key to long-term enjoyment of a site.  IAP has always done a good job policing when things heat up and I have always let the moderators do their job while I sit back and relax...that is my motivation is donating when I do.

Don't sweat the small stuff folks.  Life can hit you a hell of a lot harder than some annoying posts online.


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## low_48 (Nov 5, 2015)

I always get a kick out of the folks that feel they have to announce they are leaving. Just take a break, we'll carry on just fine, no announcements necessary. As mentioned, it's happened a lot over the years. There were a lot of people that thought the member Eagle was one of those that put people "off". Personally, I didn't care for the guy. Now some rank him with the greatest members of all time! I feel Jeff and the moderators do a wonderful job. We don't need every post hit with a fine tooth comb and edited. I've been banned from another site because I posted too often about my dislike for Grizzly machines, that won't happen here! No financial interests with advertisers to taint the system. There are posts that I just pass over, some folks I do the same when they post. It's very easy to do. It's a wonderful site, keep up the good work Jeff!!!!!! By the way, I've had my feelings hurt over the years, and got into a couple of rhubarbs as well. If we learn from the experience, we're all the better for it!


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## keithbyrd (Nov 5, 2015)

I'm still here - will continue to participate and fully expect to continue to learn!


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## jttheclockman (Nov 5, 2015)

keithbyrd said:


> I'm still here - will continue to participate and fully expect to continue to learn!



Yea you are still here because you can't figure a way out of that damn box. :biggrin: Hello.


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## stonepecker (Nov 5, 2015)

Know how to drive a blond crazy?

Put her in a silo and tell her to sit in the corner.

Keep smiling


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## CREID (Nov 5, 2015)

stonepecker said:


> Know how to drive a blond crazy?
> 
> Put her in a silo and tell her to sit in the corner.
> 
> Keep smiling



My sister has been running around for years trying to find the corner. :biggrin:

Curt


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