# Help please!  Lowest price on pen kits?



## DRAT (Mar 20, 2012)

Team IAP,

I have been going crazy trying to find the best prices on pen kits.  I search the web from Berea Hardwoods and Bear Tooth Woods to Pen State Industries and Arizona Silhouette, then follow up again with Highlands, Woodturners Catalog and Woodcraft.com.  This is crazy!

Certainly, there must be a much better way to find the sales than doing what I have been doing.  If you have cracked the case and figured out how to find the lowest prices on various kits from week to week, please do tell.

I'm spending valuable lathe time searching the web for the best deals!  

What's your secret for finding the lowest prices on Gents, Majestics, etc?

Thank tons,

DRAT


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## Andrew_K99 (Mar 20, 2012)

First, remember you get what you pay for, there are many kits that look alike but aren't the same quality.

Second, start searching some of the great vendors found on  the IAP, like Exotic Blanks, Indy Pen Dance and Classic Nib.

AK


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## mbroberg (Mar 20, 2012)

Take a look in the IAP Market Place, particularly the Vendor Catalogs.  Everyone who sells there is a member, and will take good care of you.


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## Canadian_Kid (Mar 20, 2012)

The place I like best is Pen Kits, Pen blanks, Clock Kits and wood turning accessories. and you will also get great service. If they don't have what you want then Pen Kits, Pen Blanks, Pen Mandrels, Pen Bushings, Wood Pens is another good low cost place.


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## longbeard (Mar 20, 2012)

Also, look and see if you can sign up for thier email listing
some send emails of thier specials and discounts


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## Papo (Mar 20, 2012)

DRAT said:


> Team IAP,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## ed4copies (Mar 20, 2012)

You will get the lowest price if you buy the cheapest junk.


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## Smitty37 (Mar 20, 2012)

*Yep....*

And where is the lowest price for a can of peaches? Where is the best price on a Ford F150?

Ya gotta look. There is *NO* single place to always get the best price - for anything.  Pen component sets included.


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## ed4copies (Mar 20, 2012)

I will spend more on pen kits this year than you will spend on your next car.  AND I CAN buy nearly ANY kit (excluding the high end kits) from a vendor for under $2.50.  Someone WILL buy those kits and sell them to you for 4 to 6 bucks.  You will get exactly what you paid for----peeling plating and non-functional parts.

Enjoy.

I will not buy nor  sell that quality.


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## Xander (Mar 20, 2012)

"Lowest price" does not mean most economical. I'd rather pay a bit more and get quality than save a dime and get pens that don't work or don't last. 
Anonther factor is the old 'customer service'. Fast, low cost shipping and good service is worth a few dollars. Do your research, then buy from someone who can provide everything you want at a good price with good service.


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## Smitty37 (Mar 20, 2012)

*So will I Ed....*



ed4copies said:


> I will spend more on pen kits this year than you will spend on your next car. AND I CAN buy nearly ANY kit (excluding the high end kits) from a vendor for under $2.50. Someone WILL buy those kits and sell them to you for 4 to 6 bucks. You will get exactly what you paid for----peeling plating and non-functional parts.
> 
> Enjoy.
> 
> I will not buy nor sell that quality.


  I've already spent more on pen kits this year then I'll spend on my next car (or my last car, or my current car) Ed.


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## BSea (Mar 20, 2012)

I my wife knew how much I've spent on pen kits, I'd be sleeping in my car.


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## Smitty37 (Mar 20, 2012)

*Be Happy*



BSea said:


> I my wife knew how much I've spent on pen kits, I'd be sleeping in my car.


 Count yourself lucky that she lets you have the check book (or credit card - whichever applys).


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## OKLAHOMAN (Mar 20, 2012)

I always cringe when I hear "were is the cheapest". Remember you get exactly what you pay for 99% of the time. Now if you ask were can I get the best "value" thats a completely different story. I like other vendors here can buy from various sources but just can see buying a $2.50 component set that I know when I sell it has inferior workings, plating and is a reflection on me. Most of us vendors here offer a "value" for your dollar. Go the their sites and you'll find most of us have fair prices on better merchandise


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## 76winger (Mar 20, 2012)

Smitty37 said:


> ed4copies said:
> 
> 
> > I will spend more on pen kits this year than you will spend on your next car. AND I CAN buy nearly ANY kit (excluding the high end kits) from a vendor for under $2.50. Someone WILL buy those kits and sell them to you for 4 to 6 bucks. You will get exactly what you paid for----peeling plating and non-functional parts.
> ...



I SOLD more pens last year than I paid on my last car, but then that was only $3k for a "10 year old" minivan in 2006, which I still drive today. So it's not saying much, but I'm just saying... :biggrin:


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## Smitty37 (Mar 21, 2012)

*LOL*



76winger said:


> Smitty37 said:
> 
> 
> > ed4copies said:
> ...


I spent more than that yesterday as a deposit on pen kits......:biggrin:


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## mdwilliams999 (Mar 21, 2012)

Though I know Drat used the words "lowest price", but I think I understand where he is coming from.  As a pen turner, it can get frustrating trying to understand what your getting for the money.  There may be some that only care about price, but I think most of us care about our reputations.  I don't think any of us make or sell pens because we have to, we do it because of the joy we get out of it.

It's always nice when you can get solid advice from other turners who can guide you away from the garbage and direct you to quality products (for the money).  Example, are the slimlines sold by Craft USA really better made and worth the increase over slimlines from PSI or WoodturningZ.  The Gatsby and Mesa look very similar and prices are close.  Is one better made than another.

It's a shame when you have to keep experimenting with all these kits and figure it out on your own.  It can feel like a waste of time and money.

Mike


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## 76winger (Mar 21, 2012)

mdwilliams999 said:
			
		

> Though I know Drat used the words "lowest price", but I think I understand where he is coming from.  As a pen turner, it can get frustrating trying to understand what your getting for the money.  There may be some that only care about price, but I think most of us care about our reputations.  I don't think any of us make or sell pens because we have to, we do it because of the joy we get out of it.
> 
> It's always nice when you can get solid advice from other turners who can guide you away from the garbage and direct you to quality products (for the money).  Example, are the slimlines sold by Craft USA really better made and worth the increase over slimlines from PSI or WoodturningZ.  The Gatsby and Mesa look very similar and prices are close.  Is one better made than another.
> 
> ...



As one reads and participates in these forums they learn these things. But it does take time. And what one person favors you may not, that's just differences because we're all different. Also a generality is prevalent that kits from China are cheaper but lower guilty than kits from Taiwan. But is that 100% true? I doubt it. And even if one is lower quality the question still begs to be asked "Is it good enough for you and your needs?".

Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner


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## 76winger (Mar 21, 2012)

Smitty37 said:
			
		

> I spent more than that yesterday as a deposit on pen kits......:biggrin:



DUDE!

If I could do that I'd give up the day job! 

Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner


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## 1080Wayne (Mar 21, 2012)

mdwilliams999 said:


> It's a shame when you have to keep experimenting with all these kits and figure it out on your own.  It can feel like a waste of time and money.
> 
> Mike



Consider it as part of the initiation ceremony for entry into the penturners club . After all , if you didn`t have to do any experimenting to learn some of these things because the information was all available to you , that would mean other people had borne all of the cost of the mistakes , while you got off scot-free . We all try to learn from others mistakes , most of the time , but life doesn`t allow us to do it all of the time , even in a limited area of endeavor .


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## Smitty37 (Mar 21, 2012)

*Change*



mdwilliams999 said:


> Though I know Drat used the words "lowest price", but I think I understand where he is coming from. As a pen turner, it can get frustrating trying to understand what your getting for the money. There may be some that only care about price, but I think most of us care about our reputations. I don't think any of us make or sell pens because we have to, we do it because of the joy we get out of it.
> 
> It's always nice when you can get solid advice from other turners who can guide you away from the garbage and direct you to quality products (for the money). Example, are the slimlines sold by Craft USA really better made and worth the increase over slimlines from PSI or WoodturningZ. The Gatsby and Mesa look very similar and prices are close. Is one better made than another.
> 
> ...


 
What a lot of folks here are missing is this.  That is exactly what you do with everything.  The best cell phone last year, is not the best this year.  Last year's best vacuum cleaner may be an also ran this year.  Why on earth would anyone expect pen component sets to be any different.  Kits are designed and manufactured, problems arise, changes in materials and/or processes are made....this is an ongoing thing so if someone tells you I "bought some of those once and they were awful"  unless it was within the last 6 monts or year the product might have changed and could be much better.  One supplyer recently upgraded his factory machine tools and is now useing the same tools some of the better known manufacturers are using.  Will that show in their products?  It might.


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## ed4copies (Mar 21, 2012)

Smitty37 said:


> mdwilliams999 said:
> 
> 
> > Though I know Drat used the words "lowest price", but I think I understand where he is coming from. As a pen turner, it can get frustrating trying to understand what your getting for the money. There may be some that only care about price, but I think most of us care about our reputations. I don't think any of us make or sell pens because we have to, we do it because of the joy we get out of it.
> ...



This is not to be argumentative, Smitty---it is my  "observation and experience".  When they told you they upgraded their equipment, what was the context.

For example, if you were saying "That last shipment way a mile from the spec, who the heck is doing quality control in your shop?"  THEN THEY SAID, "Oh, we have NEW Equipment---try us again!!"

To me, the next line is "send me pictures of your new equipment and samples of what is coming off of it and a few of your customers where I can buy the 'output' of your new machine"

My point:  It is easy to SAY anything when you are thousands of miles from your customer.


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## ed4copies (Mar 21, 2012)

76winger said:


> Smitty37 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That would not be a good decision, if you were going to accept delivery of those kits---four months from now and sell them at exactly the same price you paid.   

But if Smitty buys a decent kit for $4 and sells it for $6, according to the premise of this thread, you will buy the one his competition bought for $2.50 and sells at $4.

So, instead of buying decent quality for $6, and reselling it as a pen at $40 or so--proudly!!   You instead prefer a piece of junk at $4, cause you think you CAN SELL it--for $20.

The end result:  All pen makers get a bad reputation for quality and a reputation as "flea market salesmen".  (Marked $40, but he'll sell it for $10!!)

Be careful what you wish for.


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## 76winger (Mar 21, 2012)

ed4copies said:
			
		

> That would not be a good decision, if you were going to accept delivery of those kits---four months from now and sell them at exactly the same price you paid.
> 
> But if Smitty buys a decent kit for $4 and sells it for $6, according to the premise of this thread, you will buy the one his competition bought for $2.50 and sells at $4.
> 
> ...



Ed, I was straying off topic with this because I wasn't thinking or wishing that. I was thinking if I could regularly purchase that in "good quality" components and turn that into pens sold, and do that regularly, then I could give up the day job. 

I agree with points you and Smitty are making about cheap (quality) components and how they might not be cheap in price after being handed around through several resellers/middlemen. And they *don't* do well to represent us (pen makers) as a whole either.

Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner


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## PenMan1 (Mar 21, 2012)

Ah Grasshopper....looks like we must repeat lesson2.....lowest price... Not mean best value.

Grasshopper no can do lesson1.....surpass customer expectations.....if buy low quality.


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## Smitty37 (Mar 21, 2012)

ed4copies said:


> Smitty37 said:
> 
> 
> > mdwilliams999 said:
> ...


That wasn't the context.   Not ducking the issue but most folks here wouldn't be interested in how it came about.


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## iclight0 (Mar 21, 2012)

*pen outside*

Try wood n whimsies they have good prices.


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## brownsfn2 (Mar 21, 2012)

I know I am coming into the discussion late but as a fairly new turner I felt I needed to add.

When I bought my first lathe I only knew what Woodcraft offered in regards to turning.  I did not even know the IAP existed or any of the other resources for that matter.  I was just looking for a hobby I could start now that would keep me out of trouble and I could carry into retirement (Event though that is over 25 years away). 

I started out with Woodcraft and in my opinion although the kits were very nice I thought they were expensive.  It took me a long time before I even tried to turn a pen above $5 in price.  Then I did a search for buying them online and happened to come across PSI first.  Here I found in some cases cheaper prices but (again just in my opinion) the quality and customer service lacked.

As I discovered the IAP and read more and more on this site about the vendors that sell here and how helpful they are I decided to order from a few of them.  Because of my location in the country (shipping speed) and the price and service one vendor stood out as having the best combination of all three.  They are now my primary vendor and I only have to look elsewhere if they are out of stock or I am looking for something they do not carry.  

Every once in a while I have tried some of the old vendors (PSI) that I used to use and all it did was verify that I had made the right decision.

I guess my point is the same as Wayne's.  You have to know for yourself what kind of product you are going to sell and what type of vendors you will work with.  I may not make as much selling a fountain pen from (insert vendor name) as I would from (insert vendor name) but I know through my past experience that it is a good product that will last and will get a good reaction from the customer.  

It is also similar in other areas.  I used to buy computer parts from Best Buy.  Now you could not pay me to do that.  I found Tiger Direct online.  It was through trial and error.  Isn't that life?

I could make a bunch of recommendations (see cheers and jeers section) but I think most would be skeptical of my selection unless they experienced the same thing for themselves.

I would make one recommendation though.  This site is around through the support of vendors and other members here.  Unless you donate to this site you get it for free.  I always look to the vendors on this site first since they support it way more than I do and this site may not be around without them.

I will stop rambling on now....  





1080Wayne said:


> mdwilliams999 said:
> 
> 
> > It's a shame when you have to keep experimenting with all these kits and figure it out on your own.  It can feel like a waste of time and money.
> ...


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## soligen (Mar 21, 2012)

Several names have better reputations.

For me, better quality is cheaper

Our smaller IAP vendors usually only sell better kits, an most of them are re-sellers for the bigger names. So, the bigger names that I think are better are:

Berea
Woodcraft (sells Berea)
Dayacom (would be sold through others)
CS USA Artisan line (not the apprentice line)

Even with this, I perfer the smaller IAP sellers of the same kits

7mm (Cross refill) pens are a different story. Quality seems rather unpredictable, and I gave up on them about 6 months after I started pen turning.

I did find a 7mm kit I like - It is the berea/woodcraft round-top. The final straw for me on the 7mm is that the refills seem to vary in length - some too short, others too long, and I could never deduce what the "proper" length should be.

There is variation in the Parker style kit refills too, but what I found is that the Parker brand and Private Reserve brand have consistent size, so I have a consistent source of proper size refills, and the parker brand available in any office supply store will work as a replacement.


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## DRAT (Mar 21, 2012)

Wow.........I was just looking for a little help from people much more experienced at this than I am.  

I never stated I was looking to purchase the "lowest quality" product on the market (someone made that assumption).  I was simply hoping that some of you, more experienced than I, might be able to steer a newbee in the right direction to find better prices on kits than I've been able to locate in my own search.  I'm sorry that my question seemed to make some of you angry.  I never stated that I was hoping to save money by sacrificing quality (someone made that assumption too).  

From time to time the opportunity to locate a good quality product at a lower cost avails itself to us.....as a person who is relatively new to this activity, that's all I was hoping to better understand.

I do appreciate the help I received from those of you who shared information about the success you've had vendors who are not part of this site as well as those vendors who support this site.  Thank you.

DRAT


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## ed4copies (Mar 21, 2012)

Hey Anthony!!

Speaking only for myself, as I usually am, you did NOT make me ANGRY!

Your question, the way I read it, was seeking an answer based on price alone.

My comments were and are meant to alert ALL people to the intricacies that type of parameter overlooks.  Comparing pen "kits" has become VERY difficult---I try to remind people of that, regularly.

Welcome to the IAP and I hope we get to know each other---if you EVER make me angry, I will not post.  That way, I say fewer things that I may live to regret.

When I post I make every attempt to keep emotion out of it.  

:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:Well, except when I am really happy!!!!:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:​


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## Smitty37 (Mar 21, 2012)

*Me neither*

It didn't make me angry either.  Here's a little tid bit for you --- Ed and I are competitors - each of us is also for some items a customer of the other.  We are always friends.  So even if it seems like we are disagreeing (and sometimes we are) we are not being disagreeable with each other.  :biggrin:.  The same can be said for some of the other commentators - friends who don't always agree on everything, and wouldn't life be boring if we did.

Sometime you should see a thread where we get going on what constitutes quality.:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:


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## 76winger (Mar 21, 2012)

DRAT said:
			
		

> Wow.........I was just looking for a little help from people much more experienced at this than I am.
> 
> I never stated I was looking to purchase the "lowest quality" product on the market (someone made that assumption).  I was simply hoping that some of you, more experienced than I, might be able to steer a newbee in the right direction to find better prices on kits than I've been able to locate in my own search.  I'm sorry that my question seemed to make some of you angry.  I never stated that I was hoping to save money by sacrificing quality (someone made that assumption too).
> 
> ...



Whenever you put a lot of great minds together you et a lot of great rambling. 

That said, I think you were getting a lot of good warnings based on what you asked for (cheaper kits). Which is open to a lot of interpretation as evidenced by the replies. Cheers and Jeers was mentioned as a good place on this site to seek out good vendors and I'd recommend it as well. 

PSI, Daycom and Berea are good sources (i'm sure there's more but i'm still learning too) so long as you stay with their quality lines and back away from their economy lines (funline, apprentice, etc.). Start with those originators and then look around and find who resells their products and can either provide it cheaper, ship it faster, provide better service or any combination of those which, in the end, brings you better value. 

Look also for the models and styles that appeal to you as a good starting point. Then use that as a foundation to build from and try new things as you learn and before you know it you'll be an expert too!

Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner


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## hehndc (Mar 21, 2012)

I have done a lot of shopping for price over the last few years.  I have come to believe that  many times the difference is not that big.

I have found a vendor on this site and that I trust and have kept my business with them every since.  I have found good quality, fair price (i think actually low price) and can get honest answers.

The small savings I may get by shopping around is not worth the effort or frustration with poorly made kits.

Though I do not by a ton of stuff everyone of the IAP vendors have been outstanding.  Fast shipping, fair prices for good stuff and someone that can answer my questions quickly.

I kind of wish I had listened to this kind of advise when I started.  My first few years, I knew I was getting the best on my kits, but I didn't know I was getting inferior kits.  Now I know I am getting really good kits at the best price.  (if that makes since).

Steve


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## PenMan1 (Mar 21, 2012)

Smitty37 said:


> It didn't make me angry either. Here's a little tid bit for you --- Ed and I are competitors - each of us is also for some items a customer of the other. We are always friends. So even if it seems like we are disagreeing (and sometimes we are) we are not being disagreeable with each other. :biggrin:. The same can be said for some of the other commentators - friends who don't always agree on everything, and wouldn't life be boring if we did.
> 
> Sometime you should see a thread where we get going on what constitutes quality.:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:


 

I'm a customer of both of you guys. Mostly, you BOTH sell the best VALUE! 

YOU BOTH HAVE STUMBLED, as I have stumbled as a pen maker. BUT, when delays or quality issues arose, YOU BOTH HANDLED THEM PROFESSIONALLY, and I was always a happy customer.

I BOUGHT CRAP FROM STEELBAR BEFORE, and 4 years later I'M STILL WAITING ON DELIVERY.... BUT BOY, WHAT A GREAT PRICE STEELBAR HAD!!!!!!!!!


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## pianomanpj (Mar 21, 2012)

ed4copies said:


> Hey Anthony!!
> 
> Speaking only for myself, as I usually am, you did NOT make me ANGRY!
> 
> ...



That's sage advice, right there! Ed, can you be my Big Brother?! :biggrin:


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## beck3906 (Mar 21, 2012)

Shopping for the best price is really frustrating for me. The Sierra kit marketed/sold by Berea is resold by several vendors such as Exotics, AZ Silhouette, Bear Tooth Woods and others. 

I have learned to choose a few vendors over the years and stick with them. I began doing business with Arizona Silhouette when Bill was in his early years of starting up. Bill treated me well and I can still contact him and ask him to help with a special need. I can trust Bill will treat me well in fulfilling that need.

I have come to trust Exotics for certain items only they can offer. Likewise, I have done several hundred dollars worth of business with the Classic Nib recently because of the unique products they offer. Bear Tooth Woods gets business occasionaly as Ernie does a great job. Woodturningz is another vendor I occasionally do business with.

I also just recently placed an order directly with Berea because my normal suppliers were out of stock of the items I wanted (chrome styluses in 7mm and Sierra styles).

And, yes, I still do business with PSI as they have certain things I want that may not be available from a reseller. I just plan ahead.

CSUSA also gets a lot of my business but their resellers are limited. I usually go to CSUSA with a big order to capture the best discounts. 

The difference in cost is usually marginal in my normal go-to vendors because I buy in quantity. It's nothing for me to order 50-100 kits at the same time. If one is out of stock, I'll look at another. I know the quality is maintained because they offer kits I seek that originate from the same source.

My time is money. Spending an hour looking to save $3-4 will eventually cost me money where I could have been making product for my next show. Or spending quality time with my grandsons.

Please understand that those on limited budgets or those that have the time to look for the savings can save money by careful shopping. I figure I'll make up the extra dollars spent during a show somewhere.


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## pianomanpj (Mar 21, 2012)

When I first started my journey into pen making, I was also struck by the HUGE selection of what was available. I was dumbfounded why some retailers would have such huge price discrepancies from others, from what seemed to be identical products. I found myself buying from virtually every vendor and sampling WAY too many component sets. I was getting mired and discouraged - my head was spinning.

Sooooo.... I abandoned my quest to find the lowest price altogether, and opted for a different strategy - find vendors that VALUE their product, customers AND customer's satisfaction! As it turns out, there were LOTS of vendors that fit that bill! Dang!

I found that I had to look at it yet another way - what do I, as a consumer, value? So I made a list of all the things that I look for in "value". (Shipping costs, selection, price breaks, selection, etc. My list was MUCH longer - you'll have to write your own!:wink I then numbered them according to priority of importance. (Not as easy as you think!) I then took my "Top Ten" and used that criteria in evaluating a retailer. My list dropped to just a handful. And yes - this took some leg work up front. But having my ideals outlined before me kept my mind from being too cluttered. (I get enough of that at the office!)

Am I paying the lowest price? I don't know, and I don't care!! Because I DO know that I'm getting the best value! I sleep great at night every time I place an order.

A few caveats, however - I constantly reevaluate retailers, new and old alike. Every now and then I've added or removed a vendor from my "short list". Also, this list I consider as my "go to" list of vendors. If there are standard items that I stock, I go DIRECTLY to this list. There are MANY vendors I keep listed for specialty items or limited availability items. Some vendors have certain strong suits that should not be ignored (fewer component sets, but LOTS of blanks, for example).

Anyways, that's how I cut through the large array of retailers. It worked for me, but your mileage may vary. No matter what, enjoy the journey! :biggrin:


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