# Blotchy wood dye



## pegasus70 (Jul 25, 2015)

I have been experimenting with some curly maple blanks and wood dye to "pop" the grain and add some color to others. My problem is, every time I try this, the dye ends up very blotchy. I have been turning the blank and sanding to 400 grit then using an aniline dye dissolved in alcohol. Anyone with any ideas on how to prevent the blotchiness? Is there some pretreatment that might help?


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## plantman (Jul 25, 2015)

Look in the dye section of your local hobby or craft store. The alcohol dyes have a blender that will soften and even out the colors the colors. You could also try a light coat of sanding sealer to fill the pores of the more open grain in your blank, than re-sand. Also a thin coat of Thin CA will seal the open pores but may also prevent the dye from soaking into the wood. Use scrap wood to test your methods first.  Jim  S


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## BarryE (Jul 25, 2015)

You are over sanding, in effect, sealing the wood before staining . I wouldn't go pass 180, maybe a little finer for softer woods.


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## KenV (Jul 25, 2015)

What kind of dye are you using?    At what concentration??

You may want to consider use of inks to color the wood as they tend to help the grain contrast, but the finish you use on top will provide the "Pop".   Inks combine both solid color particles as well as transparent color 

Blotch is commonly caused by different grain taking the color differently and you may want to use are more concentrated color and longer contact time.


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## low_48 (Jul 25, 2015)

I'm confused, do you want it to pop, or have an even color? If it's curly maple, the grain goes in and out of the surface of the wood like a sine wave. That's what makes it curly. The wave of grain presents end grain and long grain. So splotch is what you get. If you want to pop the grain, dye the wood with a darker shade of dye. Let it dry, then sand it very hard so the first dye only stays in the porous sections. Then dye it with a lighter color. The darker dye will now provide a shadow.


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## builtbybill (Jul 25, 2015)

I would try the water soluble dyes.


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## RedBeard (Jul 27, 2015)

BarryE is correct in that you are basically sealing off the grain when you sand to that level and then apply the dye. I would sand at 120, or there abuts, and then apply your dye.
Maple in and of itself is notorious for splotching.
Charles Niel makes a pre-stain conditioner that is supposed to be awesome Charles Neil Woodworking - Charles Neil's Pre-Color Conditioner
For what it's worth I've never stained/dyed a pen blank but in my other woodworking when I want the grain to pop I use a coat of shellac underneath my top coat.


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## pegasus70 (Jul 29, 2015)

Just to respond to a few of those kind enough to provide input.
I am using water soluble dyes.
I am trying to "pop the grain" using a dark dye, then sanding that heavily, then a lighter dye.

I have read that Maple is, in itself, notorious for "blotchiness". Yet I have seen many examples of curly maple pieces that don't have the problem I am having so clearly I am doing something wrong or missing a key step.

I'll try sanding to only 150 grit and see if that helps. I may also try the sanding sealer but I am wondering if that might also seal up the grain. Once I figure it out, I'll provide some feedback.


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## pegasus70 (Jul 29, 2015)

RedBeard said:


> BarryE is correct in that you are basically sealing off the grain when you sand to that level and then apply the dye. I would sand at 120, or there abuts, and then apply your dye.
> Maple in and of itself is notorious for splotching.
> Charles Niel makes a pre-stain conditioner that is supposed to be awesome Charles Neil Woodworking - Charles Neil's Pre-Color Conditioner
> For what it's worth I've never stained/dyed a pen blank but in my other woodworking when I want the grain to pop I use a coat of shellac underneath my top coat.


 

Are you saying you put a coat of shellac on before the dye or are you saying you do that before putting on your ultimate finish (poly, oil, or whatever).
Would you try that if your topcoat is a BLO-CA finish? That is what I use on almost al of my pens.


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## RedBeard (Jul 29, 2015)

pegasus70 said:


> Are you saying you put a coat of shellac on before the dye or are you saying you do that before putting on your ultimate finish (poly, oil, or whatever).
> Would you try that if your topcoat is a BLO-CA finish? That is what I use on almost al of my pens.


 No. I don't dye any pen blanks. The shellac method is what I use in my other wood working. I have stained and/or dyed more maple then I care to recall and I've tried most readily available pre-stain conditioners from the various big box stores and none of them gave reliable results. Keep in mind that the splotchyness is due in part to different densities within the wood and trying to account for all those different areas of different densities is maddening.


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## KenV (Jul 29, 2015)

Maple and many other woods do not accept injected color or stabilizing solutions uniformly.

I have a lot of pen blanks of maple and have been using color durable dyes and vacuum to see what can be done -- then turn them to dowels.

Picture shows some of the variation with long contact time and a few pulls of moderate vacuum - moderate in that I do not want to boil water into my vacuum pump.  

Depending on the grain patterns, you can see how the dye penetrates in an irregular manner.


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## RedBeard (Jul 30, 2015)

Those are pretty nice Ken.
As for boiling water into your pump I wouldn't be too concerned with that....depending on the pump. I worked in commercial HVAC/R and used vacuum pumps dang near daily and the entire point of that was to "boil" off any water/moisture that may be in the system.


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## builtbybill (Jul 31, 2015)

In your first post you stated that you were using a dye dissolved in alcohol, but then you later said you were using water soluble dyes.  If you are using water soluble dyes you need to be dissolving them in water not alcohol.  The water does not evaporate as fast which allows for more penetration time, and possibly more uniform colors.


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## low_48 (Aug 4, 2015)

Thinking about the problem again. Are you maybe talking about a problem with overlapping color changes, or just spots on the blank that absorb the color differently? With dye you have to flood on the color, saturating the entire blank, then wipe off the excess to get an even color. Sorry if out in left field.


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