# If you don't



## Guest (Dec 24, 2004)

Think this site is confusing(at least for newcomers) look at some of the posts here.


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## jeff (Dec 24, 2004)

Anyone who thinks this site is confusing is encouraged to send me an email saying what is confusing and what the suggested remedy is.  I'll collect these suggestions and post a summary.

If you prefer, post your complaint and suggestion here.

Eagle, I already have your concerns noted;  Bad layout, confusing search, too many forums, etc.

Ok people, let me have it!


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## woodpens (Dec 24, 2004)

Jeff,

You are doing an excellent job responding to requests. I cannot imagine a layout that would be less confusing given the number and type of forums we have here. The site is very flexible and I really like the feature where you can view the latest posts all on one page. This is a complex project, and I couldn't ask for more.


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## Tom McMillan (Dec 24, 2004)

Jeff---I don't know everything it takes to keep this site up, to make changes, and to listen to criticism and to make the changes that seem appropriate.  But, you have been very responsive and obviously dedicated to this most awesome website----and, I APPRECIATE what you do very much!!!!


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## PenWorks (Dec 24, 2004)

I think this site is as good & straight forward as any I have scene for such a broad spectrum of converations we have[]

The origianl poster, could have chosen a better place to start this thread, [}]  but since it is here, who am I not to respond here to his request []

I look down the past threads started here and only found 2 new posters, that started threads that could have been under a more appropiate catagory. Give em a break, they are new and learning. Plus they would be more comfortable in front of thier lathe instead of a keyboard.

Since the board has not approved 50 lashes for started a post under the wrong heading []  let it go [] 

Plus, after the a thread starts, after the 5 or 6 posts, who knows where the conversation is going to go, it can change 3 or 4 times []

Sometimes we loose a little perpective, like FREE, this is a totally volenteer group & web site, and no one I believe has ever been asked for a dime. 

So unless I am paying 19.95 a month to look at &)*(&(*^^(*, how can you beat this excellant forum.

Happy Holidays []    Anthony


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## mikes pens (Dec 24, 2004)

I agree with alot of the others.  I think you people who set up this site have done a fabulous job.  I have no criticisms at all.  On a side note, I am not a person interested in titles such as pen crafter, etc.  However, I think the site should continue with that idea.  The creators of this site have put alot of time into it and they deserve to have a chance to see things like "the titles for pen makers" given a chance to develop and see where they go.  Terrific job guys and continue to go with your dream and develop it as you would like to see it develop.  I am just along for the ride - and enjoying it.

Mike


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## DCBluesman (Dec 24, 2004)

This site works well for most members.  It's not perfect and that's why Jeff spends hours upon hours every week tweaking and twisting it.  The flexibility Jeff has designed into this site let's the most novice computer user use it.  Sure, we get posts a bit cross-ways from time to time, but the membership seems to find the questions and provide the answers without regard for the technical accuracy of geek details.  That's one of the beautiful things about the site and our members.  We prefer substance over form.  And you good folks produce substantial help to each and every fellow member.  And Jeff keeps it sane, organized and looking good.  My hat's off to our fantastic Administrator, Jeff Brown!


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## Dave C (Dec 24, 2004)

Jeff,
Your are doing a wonderful job with this site. I have no problems navigating thru it or using the search function. I have one question to ask. I was wondering if the website software has a function to view the newest post of a thread instead of scrolling down all the replies to see what the newest post is that thread?

Keep up the fine job,
Dave


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## Old Griz (Dec 24, 2004)

Jeff, you are doing a great job here.... I was the volunteer (operative word here) webmaster for one of my woodturning clubs... all but about 2 guys thought the site was great and informative... the 2 guys just kept complaining they could not find what they were looking for or that it was not updated quick enough after a meeting (they expected the site to be updated no later than the next day)... I finally got tired of the crap and at the next meeting handed them a CDROM with the complete website on it and the password to the hosting company... and told them they were now in charge... Needless to say the site has not been updated in 4 months... I have refused to take back the job and am concentrating on our new club closer to home... 
To make my point to all who are complaining.... 
<h4><b>IF YOU THINK YOU CAN DO A BETTER JOB AT RUNNING THIS SITE, THEN VOLUNTEER TO HELP INSTEAD OF COMPLAINING</b></h4>


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## jeff (Dec 24, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Dave C_
> <br />Jeff,
> Your are doing a wonderful job with this site. I have no problems navigating thru it or using the search function. I have one question to ask. I was wondering if the website software has a function to view the newest post of a thread instead of scrolling down all the replies to see what the newest post is that thread?


Dave - In the forum window, there is a "Last Post" column and the blue arrow next to the last poster's name will take you to the last post.  When you are actually looking at a topic, there is no last post link, but I could certainly add one. It would be handy for long threads.


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## Guest (Dec 24, 2004)

I appreciate the amount of time it takes to keep something this complex working.I can't figure out how to set up a free website my ISP provides me with.
The operative word is complex.If it were simpler would it not tale less time?
I belive I heard you say there are 800+ members.
There are only as of today 100 votes on article 3.
12% of the members voted and I wonder how many of them actually read the article or did they just rubber stamp a "yes" vote.
Call me ignorant but because the link to the article was buried at the bottom of the home page I didn't see the stupid PDF file until this am.
It was the same with the finishing forum post in the suggestion forum.Until I griped about the useless need of yet another forum there were 15 posts.
It was only THEN that everyone jumped on the bandwagon.Check the dates on the post. 
I didn't come to this forum to make friends,though that has happened.I came here to learn.If someone picks up a tip from me then it's either pay back or pay ahead.
Bottom line is whether you like or don't like what I say or the way I say it I speak my mind ond don't talk out of both sides of my mouth.
There was a post some where that stated that the pen makers guild wasI believe"full of themselves"I went there to look at some of the work.
For the most part I was pretty much unimpressed by the work of such an exclusive "club"There was some interesting stuff but not warrantying the exclusivity that they have.
When I see something that is ridiculous I'll say so.
How long was it I SUGGESTED a turned pens forum to show a type of wood.\
My suggestion was simple.All the other posts on the thread wanted to make it more difficult.
To date still no turned pens forum but I can see yet another stupid shop tour.
I realize things take time and the work being done is by volunteers and I appreciate it.
Here the operative word is work.
If the forum were simpler it would have to take less work.


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## Guest (Dec 24, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Old Griz_
> <br />Jeff, you are doing a great job here.... I was the volunteer (operative word here) webmaster for one of my woodturning clubs... all but about 2 guys thought the site was great and informative... the 2 guys just kept complaining they could not find what they were looking for or that it was not updated quick enough after a meeting (they expected the site to be updated no later than the next day)... I finally got tired of the crap and at the next meeting handed them a CDROM with the complete website on it and the password to the hosting company... and told them they were now in charge... Needless to say the site has not been updated in 4 months... I have refused to take back the job and am concentrating on our new club closer to home...
> To make my point to all who are complaining....
> <h4><b>IF YOU THINK YOU CAN DO A BETTER JOB AT RUNNING THIS SITE, THEN VOLUNTEER TO HELP INSTEAD OF COMPLAINING</b></h4>


You don't want me anywhere near a keyboard
And why would you posdt this on a polls forum?
Thanks for making my point.


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## ilikewood (Dec 24, 2004)

Eagle does make some interesting points.  Sometimes I miss things that I should read, but considering that happens to me all the time, I don't consider it abnormal (of course, everyone else thinks I am abnormal [])

Jeff, conderering the complexity of this site, I am thoroughly impressed.  Wonderful job.

As far as the voting thing...if you look at the active members list, it isn't anywhere near 800.  Just go to the members list and look at the list and see when everyone's last posts were.  There are a lot of members who really aren't interested in the way things are run or who just aren't there anymore.  It is too bad (for them), but I can see why there are only 100 or so voters.


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## YoYoSpin (Dec 24, 2004)

I find myself being attracted to these personal attack threads like a moth to a flame. Its almost like Iâ€™m looking forward to seeing how far this nasty behavior can go....not...[] 

OK, anything and everything that is wrong with this site, its content, management and presentation is 100% my fault, and I promise to never ever do it again. Now, can we all enjoy the holiday season and be nice?


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## ilikewood (Dec 24, 2004)

Forget it ED!!  There is no way YOU are going to take the blame!!  It was my fault all along and don't forget it!! (definite humor involved)


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## penhead (Dec 24, 2004)

OK, well, I agree this thread should probably be moved to another/better forum, but since this is the first time in almost four days I have been at a keyboard - there is _nothing_ that will slow you down like having a serious case of stomach flu - then heck it could be my fault, too, after all - that was a "virus" thing I had..[]

And after reading some of the posts here lately, seems we are into the  heavy eggnogg season aren't we..

JohnPayton


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## C_Ludwigsen (Dec 24, 2004)

No way, No way.  It MUST be my fault - at least this week.  I'm the one that suggested the finishing forum that got Eagle all hot and bothered to begin with.  So lets each take turns taking the blame.  This can be my week since I've been on here less in recent weeks.


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## Daniel (Dec 24, 2004)

Ed,
 I will share the blame, I'll take the lions share in fact.
You told me so didn't you? 
Merry Christmas my friend


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## Randy_ (Dec 24, 2004)

Another vote from a newbie.....

This may not be the best board in the world; but it is a long, long way from being the worst.  I don't find it at all confusing other than the time thing which Jeff has been working on.  I visit quite a few boards in a number of different disciplines and this one is as good as any and better than most!!!

I think the people who organized and maintain this board can be proud of what they have accomplished!!


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## RussFairfield (Dec 25, 2004)

The only thing that has me confused is that there are now 7 different places to vote on Article-3.

If confusion was the goal, you have succeeded. 

Have a Merry Christmas, folks.


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## Mudder (Dec 25, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Eaglesc_
> 
> You don't want me anywhere near a keyboard
> And why would you posdt this on a polls forum?
> Thanks for making my point.



Eagle,

You speak your mind and I respect that. I would like now to speak mine.
I understand the original intention of your post here, and I agree with you to some degree, but to ask the question "why would you post this on a polls forum" does not make sense to me. You seem to be asking this question because of the replies that are posted pertaining to your original statement, which is not a poll, survey, or a vote, so by your own standards should not have been posted here in the first place. Therefore, it seems to me that you are propagating exactly what you are complaining about.


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## timdaleiden (Dec 25, 2004)

Eagle, 

  When I first joined this site, one of my first observations was that it seemed a bit complex. I saw that as membership, folders, and topics grew, this problem would become worse. 

  I found the suggestion box, and dropped a note to Jeff. He promptly replied to my concerns. Within a very short time he managed to add some new features. They worked great. I found that I did not have to sort through all of the forums, active topics, etc., just one simple click, and I can see what people are talking about. He recently expanded this feature so that even more posts show up. I was going to ask him to do that, but I know how much he gets paid for all of this right now. Nothing...Zip...Zero...Nada. I put him up there with Rich at penturners for doing voluntary work, and getting too much grief in return. 

  At this point, there can be one forum, or an infinite number, and all you have to do is make one simple click to see what people are talking about, and reply. 

  If you need to start your own thread, it gets just a bit more complicated, but nothing that most people can't deal with. 

  If you are having problems, share them, but do it politely. Oh and have a Merry Christmas. []


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## Guest (Dec 25, 2004)

Silly me,Since the subject of this forum is Polls and there is the software to create a poll I just guessed that this was the poll section of the site.
These are some of the threads I ran across yesterday:
http://www.penturners.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2464
http://www.penturners.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2339
http://www.penturners.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1156
These are thre,but is the intent of this forum meant to be for members to start polls(because it is possible to do so)or
Is the intention for the membes to request polls.
Certainly not meant for general dicussion or so I thought.
THat was my only purpose for post this thread.


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## Mudder (Dec 25, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Eaglesc_
> <br />Silly me



Well.....I think you should read the subject line again. It says Polls, Surveys, and Votes. And again, I do agree with you to a point. The posts you mention probably would have been better served in other topics, buy they could still be considered surveys as they are soliciting opinions from the rest of the group. Getting back to your origional post, you cannot make argument that it is a poll, a survey, or a vote, so I believe my earlier statement is correct. Thank you for proving MY point.


Have a Merry Christmas.


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