# Theft!



## hewunch (Dec 15, 2008)

Well, I had $360 of my pens stolen in 2 weeks (8 pens total). 1 was taken about 2 weeks ago and 7 and a case were taken today. Anyone else dealt with this? I am so frustrated right now I could spit nails.


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## wdcav1952 (Dec 15, 2008)

Hans, what was the venue?  Were you at a show or what?


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## ed4copies (Dec 15, 2008)

I'm guessing consignment store, Cav.  We will see.


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## hewunch (Dec 15, 2008)

it was at a store owned by friends. Lady took the display (padlock and all) off the counter.


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## ColoradoHermit (Dec 15, 2008)

Man that Sucks! I feel for you man. That's a lot of work that went Poof. 
How did it happen? I don't know about you other guys but I'm new to this penturning and I'm getting a lot invested in it. So anything to watch out for would be a big help.
Where were they stolen from? During a show? In a consignment store? Cuz I was just thinking about trying one of those. 
 Do you have any pictures of them?  Might get lucky if the scum bucket try's to sell them on eBay or something.


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## ColoradoHermit (Dec 15, 2008)

They got a security vid camera? Most places do these days.


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## OKLAHOMAN (Dec 15, 2008)

Hans, in the last 2 years I've had 4 or 5 pens shoplifted at shows, and one attempt to steal 7-8 this summer at a show when 4 teenage thugs came to my booth and made a racket while a fifth started to pick-up 3 pens at a time. I caught him starting to put them in his pocket and yelled loud enough for him to put them back that he dropped them on the ground and all 5 ran off.


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## pipecrafter (Dec 15, 2008)

That's disgusting!  What are they going to do with them?  Sell them at the pawn shop?  There's not a lot of places a pen is going to be worth much if you're not the maker.


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## hewunch (Dec 15, 2008)

I am thinking they are going to give them as  Christmas gifts.


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## Robert Taylor (Dec 15, 2008)

i had one stolen at a craft show last month. i guess i'm so new at this yet that i almost felt honored that they thought it was worth stealing. it was a modified slimline made of grapevine on a cheap copper kit.


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## jttheclockman (Dec 15, 2008)

Theft

Now I can relate to that. I used to do consignment stores in 3 big malls in my state and within those malls there were actually 2 locations for this particular ctype craft store. When it first opened under the original owners it was always well run and well staffed. I did this for about 4 years and was doing well selling my scrollsawn items and other woodworking items. I was not into turning at that time. Then the franchise got sold and the new owners did not have enough staff or security. I had over $1000 worth of merchandise stolen in one year I had to pull out. I am talking sheves that were 4' long, magazine racks and other items. Small items such as wooden wristwatches and such. It was very disheartening and the owners did nothing to replace. If I ever do anything like that again I will make sure they stand good for theft and make sure they have some kind of security setup. 

My last show I was at, as I was cleaning up and returning things to my truck I had a portable battery drill stolen from a closed box with my jacket on top. I use it to take my display down and set up. $130 drill so there went those profits for that show. Bad enough the crowd was not that good at that show either. 

It really sucks when things like this happen. People have no scrupples any more.


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## beck3906 (Dec 15, 2008)

I did a show over Thanksgiving weekend and realized after I had gotten home that I had my 2 directors chairs stolen.  I was busy loading my trailer and never missed that I wasn't loading them.  I had them leaning against the traler when I went back into the showroom  to get my last load.  

Bad enough when shoppers steal.  Different story when the other vendors steal.


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## VisExp (Dec 16, 2008)

Hans, I'm sorry to hear that.  It must be frustrating.


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## leehljp (Dec 16, 2008)

Don't know what to say here either. Lifting you in prayer because I know that had to be a part of your Christmas expectations.


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## Chasper (Dec 16, 2008)

We have had instances of theft at craft shows.  One case was with a very slick professional couple, middle age and respectable looking, well dressed.  We believe they took turns looking over pens and asking good questions.  While one was making inquiries the other was pocketing pens, probably 2-3 pens each.  Another case was some teenagers working together, five of them were grabbing and touching everything while one of them quietly grabbed a handful of pens and wandered away.  We believe that there was a man who bought two pens, paid by credit card, picked up one of our pens and signed the credit card receipt, then put the pen he signed with in his pocket.  It is possible that it was an innocent mistake, but he ended up with a pen he didn't pay for.


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## ed4copies (Dec 16, 2008)

Consignment or "franchise" stores will have a clause in their contract relieving them of any responsibility for theft.  Dawn had her glass in such a store and lost a sail boat, with stained glass sails.  Stood about two feet tall.  HAD to be employee theft, with two other pieces as well.  We have left all stores, as a result.

Craft shows are another issue.  I have left pens sitting out for people to try for about a decade now.  When I started that, Dawn suggested I would "lose about two in each show".  Close as we can determine, we have NEVER lost even one.  Usually, when I think one has disappeared, I find it uinder my rolling cart during breakdown.  I attribute this to going to higher class shows.

One year at Rosemont, there was a group of three ladies who got several booths.  One lady would ask a question that took the artist to a corner of the booth, away from the cash.  The center lady stayed in the line of sight, while the third stole the cash box.  After this story, I built our cash register into a "checkout stand" that is about four feet tall.  (Kinda obvious if you are walking down an aisle with it).

Yes, there are thieves - hopefully not many.  Try NOT to look like the easiest mark in town.  With pens, that is NOT always easy.  IF you put your pens on pallets, remember how many "spaces" there SHOULD be.  So, at least you know if someone has removed a pen and can pay special attention to them.  In a single booth, you are within five feet of the customer - make them feel "close" to you - harder to rip you off.

FWIW


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## wolftat (Dec 16, 2008)

We caught a guy lifting at a show and he won't do it again. I have no patience for that crap, if he wanted the stuff and couldn't pay I would have given it to him. Thieves are lowlifes that need a beating.


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## sbell111 (Dec 16, 2008)

ed4copies said:


> Yes, there are thieves - hopefully not many.  Try NOT to look like the easiest mark in town.  With pens, that is NOT always easy.  IF you put your pens on pallets, remember how many "spaces" there SHOULD be.  So, at least you know if someone has removed a pen and can pay special attention to them.  In a single booth, you are within five feet of the customer - make them feel "close" to you - harder to rip you off.


This is great advice.

We sell from the front of our booth, rather than setting it up so people walk into it.  This allows us to be able to talk to the customers and keep an eye on our wares at the same time.  We also replace sold pens in our displays as soon as one is sold so we always know how many pens are in the hands of customers at any time.  Also, at busy shows we always try to make sure that two people are working the booth at a time to make it difficult for theives to use distraction to steal our items.


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## sdemars (Dec 16, 2008)

Any time you are involved with consignment you will lose . . . . It's like loaning tools to people who own none . . . They never take care of your stuff . . . 

You are better off selling to a store & agreeing to buy-back un-sold at a specified length of time . . . Pure consignment is a very poor way of marketing your products . . .


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## ed4copies (Dec 16, 2008)

Something I learned from a ring vendor.

IF you keep your inventory FULL, all the time, you notice ONE missing.

He puts "sold" signs in all the holes in his ring case that are empty. So, if a ring is missing, its on someones finger around the booth.

IF you can't keep up to keeping pallets full, you may want to cut a bunch of doweling to 6" long.  Put  a dowel where the pen should be, so every pallet is full, all the time.  Except for the pens that people are "testing".

FWIW


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## jskeen (Dec 16, 2008)

Neil;

I assume that you advocate the "Marine Corps Tune Up" approach for repeat theft prevention?  I assume it works as well for that as it does to ensure correct bunk making technique, knowing which way to turn when somebody yells "Left" and remembering to remove and replace a cover at the appropriate times?


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## hewunch (Dec 16, 2008)

yeah, the good news is, I had taken a picture of the case so I knew exactly what was in there


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## spiritwoodturner (Dec 16, 2008)

It's too late for you to help on this go-round, but have you read the posts about consignments? I personally would rather pay a visit to the butt doctor than do consignments, and most that have posted about this subject agree. Well except for the butt doctor...

I've done it, when I was starting, NOTHING could get me to do it again. The risk is ALL yours, the losses are ALL yours, the upside after you pay them half is silly, and I have never heard of a consignment working well. The one guy mentioned having them buy them, with a negotiated buy-back date. That makes some sense, but include clauses that shoplifting is on them, damage is on THEM, and then all you have to worry about is giving up half of your gross to them. That just don't make sense to me, but that's just me.

I'm doing something tomorrow I've never heard of anyone else doing, although I am sure it's been done. We had a Securities Arbitration case a few years back (if any of you are still invested through Merrill Lynch-em, you too will have the fun and laughs of one of these) and the law firm that helped us has a huge, fancy office downtown. I'm going to be showing in their lobby from 11:30 to 6 tomorrow. Thousands of people walk through this lobby every day, and they all have jobs. Good jobs. And the fee they are charging me is very reasonable. Zero. My kind of number. If I do well, I'm going to offer to donate to Children's Hospital in the building management's name, so no losers here. 

Unlike consignments.

Dale


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## ed4copies (Dec 16, 2008)

You MIGHT want to make a sign that "Part of the proceeds from every pen will benefit Children's Hospital".

Then you are committed to making a donation, but the size is still up to your discretion.  

AND some people may be "pushed over the edge" to purchase from you if they know PART is a donation.


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## spiritwoodturner (Dec 16, 2008)

VERY good idea, Ed, my sweetie is working on one as we speak, after hearing your suggestion!

Thanks,
Dale


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## ed4copies (Dec 16, 2008)

Hope it helps!


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## ashaw (Dec 16, 2008)

Hans
I know what you mean.  About 6 years ago I had over $1200.00 worth of product stolen from a craft mall.  It was on consignment so it was my loss.  Now if any of my product is on consignment, the store owner is responsible for any thief.  Please make sure you file a police report.  That way you have documentation for the insurance company, or may be able to write off loss on you income tax.


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## hewunch (Mar 11, 2009)

Good news everyone. Today the thief was ordered to pay restitution! IT is a good day!


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## Art Fuldodger (Mar 11, 2009)

LoJack for pens.  Detonate the pressurized ink cartridge remotely.


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## ldb2000 (Mar 11, 2009)

Sorry to say but  this is why in most cases consignment sales don't work . Nobody will take responsibility for stolen items . Did it once with my wood toys , lost several pieces in a shop and was told by the shop owner "oh well , cost of doing business" .


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## workinforwood (Mar 11, 2009)

Tell you what...you get the red head wife standing behind the pens, and nobody dares to steal them!  I understand the consignment thing.  I tried that and someone stole a pen of mine.  I don't consign pens anymore.


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## NewLondon88 (Mar 11, 2009)

Glad you at least got some recognition, after all that!


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## thewishman (Mar 11, 2009)

Congrats, Hans. Hope they pay as ordered.


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## hewunch (Mar 11, 2009)

They paid today. So the $ is in hand


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## marionquill (Mar 11, 2009)

I've had several expensive pens stollen and stopped doing the consignment thing. I was really upset about it but figure somebody is enjoying my work and I learned a hard but valuable lesson out of the deal--don't do consignment!

Jason


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## sbell111 (Mar 12, 2009)

Now I'm hungry and lunch is still a while away.


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## babyblues (Mar 12, 2009)

I would think if you do choose to do consignment, you should make sure that your items will be in a locked display case.  And I don't mean a small one that someone can carry off.  I mean a big, honkin' floor model like in jewelry stores.  Good luck walking off with one of those suckers!  A friend of mine sold pens at a watch shop where they gave him a small space in one of their cases and theft isn't much of a problem for them.  That and an agreement that the consignor is responsible for theft, as has been mentioned severl times already.  I really think that common sense on our part is the best way to prevent theft, like the suggestions Ed has posted.  Those are good practical ways to help you be aware of it as it's happening before it's too late.


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## NewLondon88 (Mar 12, 2009)

When I did consignments, that wasn't really my worry. We just agreed that nothing had
to be paid for until it wasn't there anymore. I'd stop by once a month and replenish the
stock. Whatever wasn't there was paid for. I don't care where it went.


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## bitshird (Mar 12, 2009)

NewLondon88 said:


> When I did consignments, that wasn't really my worry. We just agreed that nothing had
> to be paid for until it wasn't there anymore. I'd stop by once a month and replenish the
> stock. Whatever wasn't there was paid for. I don't care where it went.



That's pretty much the way LOML and I used to do in New Mexico, we had 3 stores one in Santa FE one in Taos and one in Albuquerque, if it was gone we got our money, but these were all privately owned shops, and of course it was in the consignment agreement.
 I don't know if merchants would be willing to do things like that today, but these were honorable people to begin with, The store in Santa Fe had a Concho Belt disappear and they paid no problems, as far as I know, that was the only item we ever had shoplifted from a consignment location.
 We quit doing Jewelery after moving here, and getting ripped off first in Florida on Credit cards, and at a show in Nashville just plain old theft, it kind of takes what little fun there is out of the game. Guess since I got accepted into the Tennessee Association of Artists and Craftsmen. we will be doing some higher class shows. so got to learn to watch it.
 Hans I hope you get full restitution on you goods.


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## jackrichington (Mar 13, 2009)

sorry for your loss..I stopped using consignment 20 yrs ago..they have nothing invested and you are giving them "decor"  ..why should they watch your stuff?  It's your loss not theirs.  I also use 2 people at craft shows..never alone..people get you talking and the other thief steals while you are busy...


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## GouletPens (Mar 13, 2009)

I have never done consignment, and it will always be a 'process of last resort' for me. I'd rather wholesale and give them an extra 20% cut than worry about stuff getting stolen. I have a huge seller of mine dealing with my product but on a 'referral' basis. They have a display of my products but refer the business to my website. I put it in the agreement that anything I send them is their responsibility. I'll be gal darned if I'm going to pay for someone else's negligence. I put way too much work into what I do to have my pens treated like that.


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## diamundgem (Mar 13, 2009)

I use to sell rings at a flee market, laying on top of a counter, About 1700 open to the public. Just think how many of them I lost. I now make pens and sell at craft shows. Yes, I have lost a few but not many


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## dasimm (Mar 13, 2009)

I was considering consignment but now me thinks I should re-evaluate. Thanks everyone for sharing.


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## jttheclockman (Mar 13, 2009)

Dave

Do not be discouraged all together about consignment. Check out the place that you want to deal with. If you read my post in here I did quite well in about 4 to 5 years selling my scrollsawn products and was very glad I did. I made quite abit of money doing it and the best thing was I never had to be there and my product was always on display 365 days a year. There are certainly better selling times of the year but that goes with the entire package. I sold in 6 dufferent stores in 3 large shopping malls. The thing that selling in craft shows and consignment stores that outweighs selling on line is accessability and being able to see the product first hand. I have seen people sell things on line that are totally different than what is pictured on their site. 

Look into what the people running the store have to offer. Look at their security, look at liability factors, look at store hours, look at other crafters products, look at sales amounts. Then make a dicission. What we did here is give accounts of our experiences but if you talk to others that have done well they will give you the other side. I have seen both sides. I left the stores I was in because of theft but it was because the original ownersd of the store sold it off to another party and it took on a whole different look and security was nil. If the original owners would have stayed with it I may still be with them. Good luck with whatever choice you make.


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