# Jr. Aaron



## Leatherman1998 (Sep 15, 2015)

OK, so I have been using a new Aaron that I made the other day, the problem is even when walking around after a little bit when I pull it out ink is all over the grip section. I have a desire that I go running with some and never have an issue like this. Am I doing something wrong. There isn't a LOT of it but enough that I wouldn't want to show it to a customer.


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## duncsuss (Sep 15, 2015)

Are you using ink cartridges or a converter?

What brand ink?

And did you fit a replacement nib? Is the nib & feed secure in the section?


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## Leatherman1998 (Sep 15, 2015)

duncsuss said:


> Are you using ink cartridges or a converter?
> 
> What brand ink?
> 
> And did you fit a replacement nib? Is the nib & feed secure in the section?



Converter, I have a steel and a flexnib coming in from Classic Nib in a few days. My ink is private reserve cosmic cobalt. Nib and feed are seated securely in the section. The nib on it now is a Medium #6 Jowo that is stock with the kit.


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## duncsuss (Sep 15, 2015)

Well ... a bit of a puzzler.

What I'd do in your situation: 

Empty the converter back into the ink bottle, then flush the pen with clean water till there's no trace of ink coming through. You can use the converter, or get an "ear syringe" with a big bulb from a drugstore (or from Indy-Pen-Dance as part of their flushing kit.) The syringe holds a lot more water so it works a lot faster.

Then I'd take the nib and feed out of the section, and with a soft toothbrush clean off the grooves using dilute dishwashing detergent. Mild ammonia solution would also work. Dry them with a soft paper towel.

Clean the inside of the section with a soft paper towel.

Then reassemble and start over -- maybe with a different converter in case there's some gunk in that one.

I'm thinking the problem might be caused by a greasy film on some of the parts, perhaps causing an airlock. But to be honest, I don't have a great deal of confidence in the idea.

Hopefully somebody else can chime in with a useful observation.


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## OKLAHOMAN (Sep 15, 2015)

Levi, Did you use the tubes that came with the component set or did you use a premade Jr. set of tubes? If you used a set of tubes from one of us Vendors that sell something like feather , polyclay, Iron clad etc. they are slightly shorter than the tubes that the Aaron use and you might need to pull the spring out of the final that is there if you were to convert to a roller ball. If you want call me and I'll walk you through it.


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## edstreet (Sep 15, 2015)

Also worth note is over trimming the lower tube will cause ink dumps.


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## Leatherman1998 (Sep 15, 2015)

Can you expound on that a little ed? Trimming the cap too short?


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## OKLAHOMAN (Sep 15, 2015)

Levi, what I think Ed is saying is about what I also said if the lower tube is shorter than what came in the kit and you use a pump it will cause ink to dump because the spring in the upper blank will depress on the pump.


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## edstreet (Sep 15, 2015)

Leatherman1998 said:


> edstreet said:
> 
> 
> > Also worth note is over trimming the lower tube will cause ink dumps.
> ...




The new size tubes are slightly longer in length.  When you use a rollerball it's not a problem at all.  When you remove the front end section and replace it with a fountain pen (hybrid configuration) you suddenly have to deal with the spring in the lower section end causing untold problems, most commonly is with the international converter cartridges.  The twisting action (threading) of the front end assembly onto the lower tube will cause an ink dump if the tube is to short.

One case that can happen with the longer tubes is when you TRIM the ends if you over trim it will shorten the tube and cause the same problem as listed above.

To test this, put the converter cartridge into the fountain pen kit and MEASURE the length from the end of the screw threads to the end of the cartridge.  This is how much 'play' room you have to deal with.  A common depth section of your caliper will very quickly show you how much room you have to work with inside the tube with the cap in place.  Idealistically you do *NOT* want the converter to touch the spring in any manner.  The depth reading is the MAX length it should be.

If you want when I get home I can post some photo's showing this.


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## jsolie (Sep 15, 2015)

Thanks for posting this.

I've noticed the same thing with a Jr. Arron I made a while back.

I use a converter, and used the tubes that came with the component set.  I'm using the Dayacom nib that came with it, and have it inked with Noodler's 54th Massachusetts.  I'm 99.99% sure that there is no spring in the end cap as this was only ever going to be a fountain pen.  I'll double check it when I get home tonight.

I haven't used it as much as I'd like to due to the ink I find at the end of the section (and there isn't much at work to help with cleaning/reinking a fountain pen).


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## edstreet (Sep 15, 2015)

Ok here are the photo's.

Here we have a depth measurement to the spring.
These are samples from Signature Pen Supply the Black TI Aaron with Rhodium highlights.







The tube is on the bottom, the caliper is pre-measured for the detph and the top shows an international cartridge.  Note the extra length hanging over the side, this will come in contact with the spring and will dump ink when it is screwed in.


Up next we have a short cartridge.  More common place now days.






Note here the GAP between the end of the cartridge and where the spring is. (Right edge of the caliper on top)


Adventuresome turners would shorten the lower barrel in adjustments of this to only use the shorty refill cartridges and make posting the pen much more enjoyable. 






Note to, my measurements may not be the same as what you measure.  Measure it before chopping the tube.


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## duncsuss (Sep 15, 2015)

I can see 2 ways you could immediately test whether this is what's causing your ink issue.

(1) Use a cartridge instead of the converter; or

(2) take a saw to the twist handle of the converter, chop 3/8ths off it (or whatever you need to remove to guarantee that it doesn't bottom-out in tail end of the barrel).

Do either of those and see how things go for a couple of days. If you still get ink flooding into the cap, something else is the culprit. If this fixes it ... well, then you have choices.


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## OKLAHOMAN (Sep 15, 2015)

jsolie said:


> Thanks for posting this.
> 
> I've noticed the same thing with a Jr. Arron I made a while back.
> 
> ...



John, As far as I know all Aaron's have the spring in the final, that is why we had the lower barrel made longer so all Aaron's could be converted between roller ball and fountain


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## brownsfn2 (Sep 15, 2015)

Why not just remove the spring from the finial when using it as a fountain pen?


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## Hubert H (Sep 15, 2015)

Just one of the reasons I like IAP so much.  A place to learn about problems or possible future problems and how to correct or avoid them.


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## jsolie (Sep 15, 2015)

OKLAHOMAN said:


> John, As far as I know all Aaron's have the spring in the final, that is why we had the lower barrel made longer so all Aaron's could be converted between roller ball and fountain





brownsfn2 said:


> Why not just remove the spring from the finial when using it as a fountain pen?



I just checked my Jr. Aaron and I did remove the spring.  I also checked  for the seepage and didn't see any.  As I was handling the pen, I now  recall that I did wipe off the pen a couple of days ago.

I also  checked the length of the lower tube against a Jr. Gent rollerball that I  have next to the Jr. Aaron and the lengths are the same.  But with the  spring not in the end finial there isn't any interference.


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## edstreet (Sep 15, 2015)

brownsfn2 said:


> Why not just remove the spring from the finial when using it as a fountain pen?



Spring diameter > I.D. Finial diameter.


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## Smitty37 (Sep 26, 2015)

brownsfn2 said:


> Why not just remove the spring from the finial when using it as a fountain pen?


 That prevents offering it as a convertible.


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## edstreet (Sep 26, 2015)

Smitty37 said:


> That prevents offering it as a convertible.




Grossly incorrect.


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## Smitty37 (Sep 26, 2015)

edstreet said:


> Smitty37 said:
> 
> 
> > That prevents offering it as a convertible.
> ...


Prove it.


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## edstreet (Sep 26, 2015)

Smitty37 said:


> Prove it.



Elementary logic.  The vendor has no say so if the END USER removes the spring to use it as a fountain pen.


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## Smitty37 (Sep 26, 2015)

edstreet said:


> Smitty37 said:
> 
> 
> > Prove it.
> ...


Rather bad elementary logic, the vendor is the one who offers it as a convertible - so he does have a say.


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## edstreet (Sep 26, 2015)

Smitty37 said:


> Rather bad elementary logic, the vendor is the one who offers it as a convertible - so he does have a say.



Why would a vendor order it as a convert only to mod it and restrict its function to only one type. Is vendors in that practice now?


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## jondavidj (Sep 26, 2015)

You could always remove the spring and keep it. When you want to change it to the rollerball, then put the spring back in. another option.


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## Smitty37 (Sep 26, 2015)

edstreet said:


> Smitty37 said:
> 
> 
> > Rather bad elementary logic, the vendor is the one who offers it as a convertible - so he does have a say.
> ...


I don't think they did Ed.  

Any vendor who has the spring fixed ordered roller balls the ordered converters and fountain pen front ends to offer fountain pens. The vendor can then remove the spring attach the FP parts and sell fountain pens.  Or they can offer them as a convertible by giving both the fountain pen and rollerball front end.

Neither is illegal, immoral or deceiving - in fact either is smart business because you can carry just front ends rather than dedicated fountain pens.  The problem discussed here occurs only when they are offered as convertibles.  

I am betting that all three of the US vendors I know who sell the Aaron have been around long enough and are smart enough to know it is much easier to buy roller ball kits and "fountain pen conversions" to reduce the cost of their inventory - I am and two of the three I know selling Aarons have been around a lot longer than I have.


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## Smitty37 (Sep 26, 2015)

jondavidj said:


> You could always remove the spring and keep it. When you want to change it to the rollerball, then put the spring back in. another option.


 I agree Jon and if both removal and reinsertion of the spring can be done with no tools you have a convertible - until the spring gets lost (and we both know it will get lost) and the customer is in a hurry to go from FP to RB.  

If it were me, I'd be a lot more comfortable with what Roy said earlier lengthen the lower tube or better yet shorten the ink converter....that change should be quick and easy and you wouldn't lose any compatibility you have with other kits.  But it's not me.


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## edstreet (Sep 26, 2015)

jondavidj said:


> You could always remove the spring and keep it. When you want to change it to the rollerball, then put the spring back in. another option.



Yes that was my point all along.  This entry was as the end user option, not from the vendor at all.  The vendor in the case mentioned is negated as its new user choice.   

The only choice the vendor has ( all 4 of the us vendors for the Aaron ) is whether or not to stock the hybrid or 'converter' as some seem to degrade it and call it.


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## Smitty37 (Sep 26, 2015)

edstreet said:


> jondavidj said:
> 
> 
> > You could always remove the spring and keep it. When you want to change it to the rollerball, then put the spring back in. another option.
> ...


The vendor is also responsible to provide instructions.  Once they decide to sell conversion kits or sell the pen as a convertible they tell the end user how to do it. or at least warn the end user of any likely problems he/she might encounter.  People don't call them hybrid because that's not what they are.  Calling them convertible rather than hybrid in no way degrades them.  They are from what I've seen a pretty good pen kit.  I'm curious PM me the 4th US vendor ... you know which 3 I know about.


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## edstreet (Sep 27, 2015)

Smitty37 said:


> The vendor is also responsible to provide instructions.  Once they decide to sell conversion kits or sell the pen as a convertible they tell the end user how to do it. or at least warn the end user of any likely problems the might encounter.  People don't call them hybrid because that's not what they are.  Calling them convertible rather than hybrid in no way degrades them.  They are from what I've seen a pretty good pen kit.  I'm curious PM me the 4th US vendor ... you know which 3 I know about.



Going to drop it here.  You are giving the vendor to much credit as you are biased in the matter, not only as a vendor but compelled to attempt to lure me into deceptive traits to argue with you. However I am not doing that. I stated the case and it really does not matter who is right or wrong.   What does matter is the USER HAS CHOICE.  Some refer to it as freedom.  

Sorry no PM with you or the like. I have no intentions of listing and of the 4 vendors either.


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## Smitty37 (Sep 27, 2015)

edstreet said:


> Smitty37 said:
> 
> 
> > The vendor is also responsible to provide instructions.  Once they decide to sell conversion kits or sell the pen as a convertible they tell the end user how to do it. or at least warn the end user of any likely problems the might encounter.  People don't call them hybrid because that's not what they are.  Calling them convertible rather than hybrid in no way degrades them.  They are from what I've seen a pretty good pen kit.  I'm curious PM me the 4th US vendor ... you know which 3 I know about.
> ...


Ed you were the instigator of the discussion between us....not me.  You made a statement saying I was wrong, knowing full well that I wouldn't be likely to let it pass unanswered.  

I didn't give the vendor either credit or blame, I stated a responsibility that I believe most vendors here at IAP would agree they have.

*What on God's little green earth is that supposed to mean --- what are "deceptive traits"?
* 
No one in this thread, ever said or implied that the end user did not have a choice. That was never in doubt.

This thread was about an end user who encountered a problem when he exercised that choice and how to avoid that problem in the future.  Since several end users had the problem it does fall on the vendor to find the cure.  I think all of the vendors here would agree with that.

I have no more bias because I am a vendor than you have because you are not.


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## csr67 (Sep 28, 2015)

Smitty37 said:


> edstreet said:
> 
> 
> > Smitty37 said:
> ...



Smitty, I feel your pain trying to reason with the unreasonable.  As my grandfather used to say "you can't fight stupid".....


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## Leatherman1998 (Sep 28, 2015)

OK y'all, why not just quit arguing over a.....spring??? I didn't even get a spring with mine. I buy fountains OR rollerballs, not convertibles. The whole concept of leaving a spring in the pen to make it "convertible" is irrational in the first place. I keep replacement springs around for months and if you ask my parents I am not the most organized. Loosing it isn't the issue and even though I have got some chuckles out of the banter it is a little crazy.

Just my .02


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## Smitty37 (Sep 29, 2015)

Leatherman1998 said:


> *OK y'all, why not just quit arguing over a.....spring???* I didn't even get a spring with mine. I buy fountains OR rollerballs, not convertibles. The whole concept of leaving a spring in the pen to make it "convertible" is irrational in the first place. I keep replacement springs around for months and if you ask my parents I am not the most organized. Loosing it isn't the issue and even though I have got some chuckles out of the banter it is a little crazy.
> 
> Just my .02


:biggrin::biggrin:You're a day late with your request. The last post in the debate was at 12:36am on 9/27:biggrin::biggrin:


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## jsolie (Sep 29, 2015)

To try to bring this sort of back on topic, I've re-inked my Jr. Aaron with the same ink as before (Noodler's 54th Mass), and have let it sit for a few days.  I checked it the other day, and I think it's starting to form the ink around the end of the section.  I'll let it set for a few more days and then examine it in better lighting.


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## RDH79 (Oct 3, 2015)

I use the private reserve cartridges and have noticed they do not snap in as solid on the Jr Aaron annd Jr Anthony as they do on the gents and statesman. Funny I was on here to ask a question about where to buy feeds and sections.  I hope the ones I have sold dont come back to haunt me. With leaking.


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## avbill (Oct 3, 2015)

I noticed that when I place a roller refill into the Arron it -- the nib section screws on  tight.  I replaced the spring with a spring from the Jr gent.   ---Result is you lose the rollerball nib tip. then pressing the pen to paper  I now stretch the JR gent spring  and it works  OK.  

What I will be doing next is to purchase  more aaron tubes sets. and replacing them with the jr gent's.  and then  buying more arron springs. for  everything in the  jr series.


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## Smitty37 (Oct 3, 2015)

avbill said:


> I noticed that when I place a roller refill into the Arron it -- the nib section screws on  tight.  I replaced the spring with a spring from the Jr gent.   ---Result is you lose the rollerball nib tip. then pressing the pen to paper  I now stretch the JR gent spring  and it works  OK.
> 
> What I will be doing next is to purchase  more aaron tubes sets.* and replacing them with the jr gent's.*  and then  buying more arron springs. for  everything in the  jr series*.*


Do you mean to say "and replacing Jr Gents with them"?


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## edstreet (Oct 3, 2015)

jsolie said:


> To try to bring this sort of back on topic, I've re-inked my Jr. Aaron with the same ink as before (Noodler's 54th Mass), and have let it sit for a few days.  I checked it the other day, and I think it's starting to form the ink around the end of the section.  I'll let it set for a few more days and then examine it in better lighting.



Care to send that one to me if I would send you a working one??


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## vakmere (Oct 30, 2015)

After reading most all of this, where does one store the FP part after installing the rollerball? Desk drawer, briefcase, other? Assembling and disassembling seems a little messy after a while.


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## jsolie (Oct 30, 2015)

edstreet said:


> Care to send that one to me if I would send you a working one??



Possibly.  Let me check the pen tonight.  It's been sitting on it's side for a couple weeks now, so if it's gonna get a ring of ink it ought to have by now.


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