# Just a quick vent...



## Russell Eaton (Sep 3, 2010)

I recently bought some snakeskin blanks for a seller on the site. The first time I tried to turn them the tubes pushed out the other side of 2 of the blanks and the third had bare skin coming through before it was even turned to the right side. I just though it was a mishap and returned them for some replacements. I just thought that I would show some pictures of the fixed blanks. As you can tell the blanks were not turned to far that is why I included assembled pictures.
 By the way, I will not post the name publicly if you want to know just pm. Sorry for the rant, this is the first negative post I have made. I just don't want anybody else to get "burned". Russell


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## bruce119 (Sep 3, 2010)

Snake skin is a PIA to cast. The seam looks real bad on that. I when I do snake skins have a special way of hiding the seam. It takes time but it can be hidden. The silvery look could be the skins were coated with CA this helps prevent air issues when not using pressure but there are other ways to avoid it. The silvery look is air that is trapped between the skin and resin one of the problem that takes experience to avoid. Turning through a skin well depending on the skin some are thick there not paper. Pythons are known to be very thick skin very hard to hide the seam and take a lot of room. I would not turn a python straight down to the part like you did. I would leave it a little proud and round it it. Also after squaring the ends and always sand don't use a mill it could catch & tear. You should seal the ends with CA remember you are exposing skin it is like a sponge it will let dust and any moisture in from sanding.

I think I addressed a lot of issues associated with snake skins.

Again I don't know who's they are and don't want to know but I do have a little experience with skins.

.


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## rjwolfe3 (Sep 3, 2010)

When I do that I put a little CA over it and wet sand it out. Normally can't tell afterward.


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## Russell Eaton (Sep 3, 2010)

Thanks bruce 119 my point was that of the 6 blanks total that I got, ALL were defective. I just have no desire to do business with this person again. That being said I have had VERY good luck with all the other vendors that I have had dealings with. We just need to be careful with our HARD earned money.


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## LarryDNJR (Sep 3, 2010)

I've had issues using HUTS plastic polish after doing all the work to turn, sand, mm, then go to apply the polish and it leaked onto the skin underneath the resin creating this white/silvery look over the skin.  It was basically my fault for not realizing I needed to ca seal the skins on the ends.  I was able to fix one of the 2 blanks I messed up by soaking it in hot water changing it out frequently and letting it sit overnight in water.  The 2nd one however didn't get as clean but was a little better.


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## tim self (Sep 3, 2010)

It has been my experience to only buy from those who have been making their particular type blank.  Curtis' Cactus are the only I will buy anymore, period.  Sorry for your "loss" but experience is the best teacher.


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## bruce119 (Sep 3, 2010)

Another thing that happens frequently on the ends. When the ends go milky this is usually caused by separation from the resin. What has happen is the resin has separated from the skin I have seen this often. The causes are the bushings too tight perhaps a catch and shocking the ends also when pressing in the parts if they are too tight or you skew off when pressing. It causes the brass tube to expand very bad with snake skin. If the brass tube expands you will more than likely get a separation and it will show as a milky looking on the ends that is not fixable. I would never make a snake skin with Alumilite it is very prone to flexing and separation. Also be sure to seal the ends with CA that will keep dust and water out from wet sanding but will not help with separation. Only good technique and awareness will protect against separation.

I hope that helps someone also.

.


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## Russell Eaton (Sep 3, 2010)

Bruce the blanks were bad before the kit was assembled. I simply put them on the pen to show that they were not overturned. I could build them back up with ca glue but then the kit would not have the proper fit. I guess it is "live and learn".


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## glycerine (Sep 3, 2010)

Looks like the skins are just too thick for a sierra.  Maybe the blank maker should only cast for pens with thicker bodies.


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## DCBluesman (Sep 3, 2010)

Sorry you had a bad experience.  One thing I have learned is that the Sierra Vista is a better choice for anything embedded in resin...skins, shell, etc.


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## PR_Princess (Sep 3, 2010)

Russell, I am sorry that you had a bad experience with this other  seller. I don't know if I can do anything about the red python, but send  me a PM with how many were rattlers. I have a few on sierras that I can replace these with. Let's see if we can't get a pen or two out for you.


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## bruce119 (Sep 3, 2010)

Russell Eaton said:


> Bruce the blanks were bad before the kit was assembled. I simply put them on the pen to show that they were not overturned. I could build them back up with ca glue but then the kit would not have the proper fit. I guess it is "live and learn".


 
Russell I wasn't indicating that was your problem. Just pointing out some of the common things that can go wrong. Like I said before casting snake skin especially rattlers is a PIA and takes a little time to get it rite. Look at the vendors history how long have they been doing it. What kind of pictures did they show before you bought were they hiding something. I always show both sides and turn them round and clean them up so the buyer can just what they are getting. I have seen some new sellers with good prices but bad photos


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## ed4copies (Sep 3, 2010)

Just to clarify, the blanks were not from Exotics.

Dawn's offer is just a gesture of goodwill.  She will try to help with the rattlers, but she does not cast Python for sale--you have identified SOME of the reasons.

Also beware, there are some skins being sold on ebay as dyed python that certainly don't LOOK LIKE python skins.


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## JohnU (Sep 3, 2010)

I think I've encountered everything Bruce mentioned.  Snake skins are one of the hardest things I have ever cast. Way too many variables to go wrong.  I've got more bad blanks than good ones.  I have a small stash of good ones that I set aside for later but have come back later to find their status had changed with silver marks and discolored spots.  I love the look but it's not easy to pull off.

Very generous Dawn!


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## Craftdiggity (Sep 3, 2010)

That's a shame, Russell.  I've struggled with some of those issues with snakeskin as well and Bruce is right.  Some are fairly thick.  When I turn down and run into the skin, I use ca and just try to round it like Bruce suggests.  It's too bad that your seller didn't make things right, though.  

Bruce,  I'd love to hear your seam hiding secret if you're willing.


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## Russell Eaton (Sep 3, 2010)

Ed is CORRECT the blanks in question came from a private seller. I have been in contact with Dawn and once again I have never had a problem with Exotics product or service, it has always been topnotch.


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## bruce119 (Sep 3, 2010)

Craftdiggity said:


> That's a shame, Russell. I've struggled with some of those issues with snakeskin as well and Bruce is right. Some are fairly thick. When I turn down and run into the skin, I use ca and just try to round it like Bruce suggests. It's too bad that your seller didn't make things right, though.
> 
> Bruce, I'd love to hear your seam hiding secret if you're willing.


 
I don't keep too many secrets. It's a matter of detail a nice small sharp scissors. Cut the piece of skin just over size say 1/16 then when you cut the overlapping top piece zig-zag and follow the scales it blends rite in. A straight line is a dead give-a-way and don't look good. That goes for anything a straight line in nature just doesn't look rite always cut on an angle or zigzag the cut a good rule of thumb for anything.

Take a look below that is a photo of the seam. I challenge anyone to find it. The link is to an old sale. I don't have time to make any now and only do them from time to time because they are a pain. I will not take names or am I doing a sales pitch please don't ask just trying to help others.

http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=61324&highlight=snake+skin





&





.


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## ed4copies (Sep 3, 2010)

Actually, Bruce has nailed the answer.

Making the skins as he does (which Dawn posted long ago, as well), takes time and effort.  Then a properly prepped skin needs time for the adhesive to cure fully before being cast.  When cast, the pressure is one of several variables that must be controlled.

This is why you don't see a lot of "extremely well done" snakeskins for sale.  The people who cast them quickly and with some "issues" have lowered the price to the point where it is not worthwhile to spend the time to make them correctly.

Most turners can't tell the difference until they have the problems described above.:frown::frown:


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## jttheclockman (Sep 3, 2010)

Russell Eaton said:


> Ed is CORRECT the blanks in question came from a private seller. I have been in contact with Dawn and once again I have never had a problem with Exotics product or service, it has always been topnotch.


 

And that is the point here I think you may have done an injustice about going about this. Your beef should be with the seller. You come here and vent but do not want to post the name and nor do I think you should. You should work this out with the vendor and explain the problems so maybe they will correct your problem and also correct their procedures. Now you will have everyone and their brother coming here and stating it wasn't me. Don't need to see that. 

I am sure there is many different procedures to cast snakeskins as well as other things. Unfortunately I do not cast snakeskins so I can not speak to the problem you are having. I do cast other things though and even though I have never sold aany, just given them away, I worry about just the thing you brought up. I probably will never cast to sell but if i do I will stand behind the product or money back no questions asked. I am sure something could be worked out with the vendor in question so why not fight the fight with them???  Just my thoughts on the venting part.


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## wolftat (Sep 3, 2010)

I think maybe this should be moved to the vendor review area and something may be able to be worked out where both parties are satisfied.


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## TXPhi67 (Sep 3, 2010)

Personally, I think this is a valid post and a good thread.  Everyone is being polite and focusing on the issue of casting snakeskin blanks.

Dawn and Ed's offer and posting is simply an example of the peerless level of service and quality that we have come to appreciate from Exotics and simply continues to set the bar where it should be for anyone who participates in our little community in any kind of buy/sell transaction.

The information shared regarding the complexity of casting snake skins and the education for those of us who do not cast in terms of being knowledgeable buyers is invaluable.

Besides, if you can't rant to your friends - who can you rant to.  

I do understand concerns about individuals feeling like they need to defend themselves.  However, I would say that it's not necessary.  The individuals who regularly sell have their reputation set and those who are just starting can use this as an excellent learning example on both what not to do as well as what to do (Exotics as an example).

I hope this thread stays positive, informative, and professional.

Thanks,


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## MesquiteMan (Sep 3, 2010)

Going to have to disagree with John T. post above.  This post is a good reminder that you get what you pay for.  Some of us go the extreme extra mile to produce a super top notch product and then someone else comes along and sees dollar signs and decides they too want in on that action.  Then they produce something that is lesser quality and of course it has a lower price.  Nothing wrong with that, I guess, but don't buy a Yugo and expect it to perform like a Rolls Royce!


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## MesquiteMan (Sep 3, 2010)

wolftat said:


> I think maybe this should be moved to the vendor review area and something may be able to be worked out where both parties are satisfied.



Neil,  Without a vendor being listed, it is not a vendor review.


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## Willee (Sep 3, 2010)

I need to ask if your pen kits were sierras or Wall Street III?

The Wall Street III are thicker at the center band leaving more material on the blank.

I learned this the hard way with some PC board blanks from WoodCraft.
They came as a kit with Wall Street III kits and I thought I would do one for a sierra kit.
I found I was hitting components on the PC board.


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## ed4copies (Sep 3, 2010)

The Wall street III is the Sierra Vista--has a larger girth.

The Wall Street II is the sierra---"skinnier"
You can make the computer board pen on a WSII, but you can't turn it "B2B" .

It's much more logical to use the WSIII or Vista--


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## maxwell_smart007 (Sep 3, 2010)

I'd see if you can work it out with the vendor.  Most quality vendors back up their products.  Did you contact the vendor before you posted the rant?  

I agree with the statement above - you get what you pay for!  A worthless wood from woodcraft is unlikely to look like a piece from Curtis - I'd bet good money on that!


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## ed4copies (Sep 3, 2010)

maxwell_smart007 said:


> I agree with the statement above - you get what you pay for!  A worthless wood from woodcraft is unlikely to look like a piece from Curtis - *I'd bet good money on that!*



:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:Where would you get GOOD money???  Thought you just had that "LOONEY" stuff!!:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:


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## maxwell_smart007 (Sep 3, 2010)

At least ours is shiny!  And it makes my pants jingle and sound very Christmassy!


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## ed4copies (Sep 3, 2010)

maxwell_smart007 said:


> At least ours is shiny!  And it makes my pants jingle and sound very Christmassy!



VERY strong argument in its defense---I give up!!!


(Don't want Santa to skip me!!)


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## maxwell_smart007 (Sep 3, 2010)

Ed...rendered silent??  Now THAT'S a rare sight! :wink: :biggrin: 

Where's my prize!


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## ed4copies (Sep 3, 2010)

You didn't do it,

Santa did!!


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## JerrySambrook (Sep 3, 2010)

maxwell_smart007 said:


> At least ours is shiny!  And it makes my pants jingle and sound very Christmassy!



Yeah, it may be shiney, but there is a reason it is called "looney"

And I bet you have a tough time carrying $50.00 ca, (which is worth about $100 american now).

I kinda figure that is how the kids get the style of wearing their pants around their knees


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## DocStram (Sep 3, 2010)

All of us are going to be a little anxious before we purchase any snakeskin blanks.  This is one of the reasons that we started the Product Review Forum.  The Forum isn't just for "good reviews" . . . it's a forum for honest, objective evaluations.  I think Russell should write a comprehensive product review, with photos, and the seller's name.

Then, the person who sold the blanks can respond in the Product Review Forum.  

In my book, just replacing Russell's blanks or refunding his moola isn't enough.  What about others who have purchased from the seller?  And, what about those of us who might buy from him/her in the future.

The seller sold the blanks . . .  he/she needs to take responsibility for their inferior work.  It's just another example of how we in the USA don't hold people accountable.


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## Russell Eaton (Sep 3, 2010)

I have done nothing wrong. I will post the pictures of the blanks and do a review on the Product review Forum. I have been asked to by more than one person. If you want to know I will post it in the next hour.


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## ed4copies (Sep 3, 2010)

Russell, because any ONE member or group of members might have approached this differently most certainly does NOT make your method WRONG.

Handle it as YOU wish--when Doc has a similar problem, he can handle it as he wishes.  

And BOTH of you can be RIGHT!!


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## bruce119 (Sep 3, 2010)

Russell Eaton said:


> I have done nothing wrong. I will post the pictures of the blanks and do a review on the Product review Forum. I have been asked to by more than one person. If you want to know I will post it in the next hour.


 
You can't hide on a public forum. You bought it here it's easy to find it.:smile-big:

.


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## DocStram (Sep 3, 2010)

ed4copies said:


> Russell, because any ONE member or group of members might have approached this differently most certainly does NOT make your method WRONG.
> 
> Handle it as YOU wish--when Doc has a similar problem, he can handle it as he wishes.
> 
> And BOTH of you can be RIGHT!!



I agree with Ed.     It's just my take on things.  And Russell?  If you are writing a review . . .  I'd say run it by Neil first.  He's the Product Review Manager.


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## Monty (Sep 3, 2010)

Definitely run it by Neil before you post it.


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## jttheclockman (Sep 3, 2010)

MesquiteMan said:


> Going to have to disagree with John T. post above. This post is a good reminder that you get what you pay for. Some of us go the extreme extra mile to produce a super top notch product and then someone else comes along and sees dollar signs and decides they too want in on that action. Then they produce something that is lesser quality and of course it has a lower price. Nothing wrong with that, I guess, but don't buy a Yugo and expect it to perform like a Rolls Royce!


 

Curtis, you have every right to disagree with what I said. But there is alot of facts here that are missing and before any ranting is done why not pick the phone up or email the person and see if they can work the problem out between them. Maybe this person is not aware his product has flaws. How do we know the blanks were cheaper than anyone elses??? Now if he or she does not stand behind their work then they should be outed. 

I did not see this thread as a discussion of how snakeskin blanks are made and I see it heading that way along with the "IT'S NOT ME" posting. Just because someone sells something here for a lesser price does not make it a lesser quality product. Maybe they have a quicker easier method of casting or a cheaper source for materials and is passing this savings onto the members. 


Like I said I do not know anything about casting snakeskins but do know about casting and things do happen. I am not defending this person because I have no idea who it is but I am defending the ranting before all facts are known. We all know how quickly a mountain is made out of a molehill on this forum. Next thing you know it the photos of dead Horses shows up. I think this one will head that way. 

As far as an education on the making of snakeskin blanks can and should be brought up under a different forum such as casting and then all can explain their method of making them and we all can learn a thing. 

Did the starter of this thread contact the seller???  Was there a discussion on the problem?? Now if the starter of this thread wants to add more facts and disprove what I said I will accept that. Just my 2¢


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## mick (Sep 3, 2010)

maxwell_smart007 said:


> At least ours is shiny! And it makes my pants jingle and sound very Christmassy!


 
Andrew, I'm very uncomfortable with your pants jingling, just saying!


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## Smitty37 (Sep 3, 2010)

*Exchange rate*



JerrySambrook said:


> maxwell_smart007 said:
> 
> 
> > At least ours is shiny! And it makes my pants jingle and sound very Christmassy!
> ...


 
With the exchange of $1 Canadian = $.95 USD at closing today,  I'm not to sure about your arithmetic.


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## ed4copies (Sep 3, 2010)

:biggrin::biggrin:Twas hyperbole, Smitty.:biggrin::biggrin:

A tool of humor, not found in QC rooms!!!


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## JerrySambrook (Sep 10, 2010)

Smitty,
   Was kind of a joke. Back in the late 90's, if you went to canada, the exchange rate was about $1.78 ca to $1.00 us.

I got a big suprise when I went to a place called Le Bifteque just outside Quebec City.

The waiter gave me a free dessert of my choice when I told him I was paying in us.
He also said if he had know, service and the food would have been much better (although I still do not know how, as it is still some of the best fillets I have ever had)

Now, our friends up there laugh at us for the turn around.

Ed,  thanks for pointing it out to him.


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## Smitty37 (Sep 10, 2010)

*I know that*

I must apologize, I thought my response would signal that I knew it was a joke....must be getting old..


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## Smitty37 (Sep 10, 2010)

*Humor*



ed4copies said:


> :biggrin::biggrin:Twas hyperbole, Smitty.:biggrin::biggrin:
> 
> A tool of humor, not found in QC rooms!!!


 
Ed. Hyperbole can indeed be used for humor, the problem is you sometimes have to wait forever for the audience to get it.:biggrin::biggrin:


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