# Pen Finishing with Floor Polyurethane?



## JoeP (May 13, 2008)

I watched an old episode of "How It's Made" on the Science channel and the person making pens used a polyurethane for floor finishing.  The pens looked nice and I assume it was a durable finish.  I was wondering has anyone tried that and what was the outcome?


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## sbell111 (May 13, 2008)

I suspect that it was done just like this one:

http://www.penturners.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=37135


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## kent4Him (May 13, 2008)

Steven Russell has said the poly is the kiss of death on a pen.


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## sbell111 (May 13, 2008)

All I know is that rd_ab_penman's sedona is really great looking.

Who's Steven Russell and what does he mean by 'kiss of death'?


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## Texatdurango (May 13, 2008)

> _Originally posted by sbell111_
> 
> Who's Steven Russell and what does he mean by 'kiss of death'?


My sentiments exactly, I've never heard of Steven Russell!  I think all too often someone will try something and not care for it for one reason or another and just because their name is easily recognizable, no one challenges what they say.

I have used Minwax poly for over a dozen years and think it's one of the best finishes I have ever used on furniture, which coincidentally is WOOD!

My thinking is that if it can hold up to table-top use every day for 10 years, a ride in a shirt pocket and being man-handled briefly now and then wouldnâ€™t be so bad![]

If you think about it, how far fetched is using polished glue for a finish, and yet we scoff at polyurethane which is a tougher finish than lacquer!  Perhaps it didnâ€™t fit within a 20 minute per pen time frame! [:0]


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## workinforwood (May 13, 2008)

Seems like an almost great idea to me.  That floor finish polyurethane is tough stuff and has some UV protectant too.  Only issue is that it's pretty thick on application so you will likely need to rig a very slow revolving rotisserie.  Other than that, I think it's great.  I wouldn't know who Steve is and or what he's talking about.  I'd take poly over laquer in a heart beat.  Heck, with laquer you can sometimes scrape the finish off just attaching the clip.  You use floor poly and a rotisserie and you'll have a great looking durable pen in maybe 6-12 hrs.  I'd set it aside for a full day before assembly.


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## maxwell_smart007 (May 13, 2008)

I just did the exact same thing on a briar pen...worked beautifully, albeit slower than a CA finish...

It did tend to want to drip, so I think I'd put it on a bit thinner next time with more coats, but it's gorgeous! 

Andrew


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## Texatdurango (May 13, 2008)

I was taught the "dip and drip method" by a pen maker whose lacquer finishes are second to none and the best I have ever seen.  Ont thing he taught me was to take an all thread and insert the blank AND bushing before dipping.  That way when the finish runs off the end it doesn't bulge at the end of the blank but continues down and bulges on the bushing instead.  This leaves a very uniform thickness of finish on the pen.  I have worked with urethane quite a bit and thinning it just a bit should give a nice dipping consistancy.


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## Rmartin (May 13, 2008)

Most floor Polyurethanes are oil based. They will amber over time. The water based poly is said to stay clear. And, while drying time is 12 hours or less, most polys take 30 days to fully cure. Only then does it become harder than lacquer.


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## doddman70 (May 13, 2008)

> _Originally posted by sbell111_
> 
> 
> 
> Who's Steven Russell and what does he mean by 'kiss of death'?


This is Steven Russell
http://www.woodturningvideosplus.com/index.html


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## RonInSpringTX (May 14, 2008)

howdy Joe and everyone. Here's my 3 cents worth!! I've done a lot of furniture, pool cue racks, shot glass racks, candle holders, etc., and love the polyurethane, don't know what the difference is between the "floor" poly & the regular Minwax stuff, I guess maybe the floor stuff may have other stuff in it, don't know.  I tried the high gloss dipping solution that Penn State sales, I tried it diluted in 1/2 and even down to 1/3, rigged up some wire clothes hangers w/loops on the end (to keep blanks from flying off during shaking off excess) one turned out half-ass, but I really wasn't happy, because no matter how much throwing off excess, it still ended up with a slight bead on the bottom end. (even if I switched bottom to top, several times, same results) I went to the spray polyurethane (Minwax, gloss) A light short 2 or 3 spray on each area, overlapping slightly, let dry, sand with 320, wipe, repeat about 3 times & the finish is great!! (not too thick of coats or you may need to slightly hit it with foam brush) I wouldn't do the more exotic woods (cocobolo, maybe bocote, other oily woods) I did a cocobolo bottle stopper, 1 coat of poly and it was still tacky after 5 days. My older brother suggested that "those exotic woods" have oil in them & won't adhere to the poly. He was right. So I cleaned it with mineral spirits, & finished it with the Crystal Coat (Rockler) & Ren wax. Looks great!! It works on olive wood, the laminated striped pieces, the spalted tamaring, maple, zebrawood. Haven't tried any others I can thing of, Hope this helps!!!
Ronnie


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## doddman70 (May 14, 2008)

Ron Just curious as i'am thinking of going out and getting some polyurethane this morning to play with a little. in your dipping did you dip with bushings on the blanks? also does anybody know what the difference is with polyacrylic? is it the same as the polyurethane?


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## Ligget (May 14, 2008)

I have used Rustins Plastic Polish on pens and it is awesome, longer than CA to apply and cure but excellent results. [8D]


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## Texatdurango (May 14, 2008)

Since it is semi-relevant to the thread, for anyone interested....

Here is one way to "dip n drip" blanks.

Start with a 3/16" or similar size all-thread, which you glue into a small wood block (your least favorite pen blank will work) and screw an eye bolt into the opposite end.

When the blank is ready to finish, just thread a nut onto the rod and slide the blank on WITH the bushings still intact.  Thread on a lower nut to hold the blank in place then dip the blank into a container of finish then S L O W L Y withdraw the rod to keep air bubbles off of the blank.  I use a pegboard hook to hang the rod while drying but anything would work.  After the finish tacks, remove the blank and reverse it then repeat the dipping process.  I usually put at least 4 coats on.

The reason you leave the bushings on is that when the finish runs down the tube it will want to bulge at the end.  With the bushing still attached, the finish runs beyond the end of the blank and will bulge on the bushing instead.

I keep another jar of thinner and toss the bushings and all threads in to clean off the finish.

To use this method, obviously you will need more than one set of bushings BUT you can make your own from any material.

Credit for this idea goes to Lyle Walden who showed me how to do it.

Here is a photo of what I am talking about...


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## Jim15 (May 14, 2008)

Thanks George and Lyle for sharing this.


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## JohnU (May 14, 2008)

> _Originally posted by doddman70_
> 
> Ron Just curious as i'am thinking of going out and getting some polyurethane this morning to play with a little. in your dipping did you dip with bushings on the blanks? also does anybody know what the difference is with polyacrylic? is it the same as the polyurethane?


Polyacrylic is water based and very thin.  Looks like milk.  polyurethane is oil based and thicker.  Ive used urethane on pens but not acrylic so I dont know how it would work.  Like above, urethane will not dry on some exotics.  Ive had problems with cocobolo and BOW so I switched to sparurethane for a while.  Now I use lacquer (brush several coats on with small craft brush while on mandrel) or CA.


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## workinforwood (May 14, 2008)

Polyacrylic is water based as stated above.  It does not amber and is as hard as regular polyurethane.  You can also step up to catalyzed polyacrlic which is super duty hard but still maintains flexibility, but requires some mixing and spray equipment.  There's always a but though...acrylic is destroyed by alcohol.  You don't use it on a bar top or the drinks being spilled will ruin it.  Some abrasive cleaners will eat it up too with their amonia's and acids.  It's amazing technology that is super duty tough, goes on thicker than regular poly, no ambering, UV protectant included, dries in an hour, cures in a day, yet it has it's place.  Be a great pen finish as long as your not an alcoholic.  Oh...just remembered another downside to acrylics is that it raises grain more than oil.  Water tends to do that, so you are urged to use a sanding sealer first and the sanding sealer should be made for the product being put on top.  Catalysed acrylic polyurethane will stick, dry and cure on oily woods like ebony, although you do still need to wipe the woods with some mineral spirits first.  Spraying anything on top of oil, well that's like trying to paint a gravel driveway.


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