# FYI Berea Elegant Beauty



## makaiolani (Aug 1, 2008)

Hi guys,

I just wanted to let everyone know that Berea's Elegant beauty is NOT the same as Dayacom's.  I've contacted the president of Dayacom to see if he sold them his kits and in his reply he was a little upset that Berea copied his pen so quickly.  He is still waiting on his patent number to come through for his Elegant Beauty pen kits.  He said he is tired of them copying and wants to take them to court.  In my opinion I don't think there is much he can do.  

Anyway, I just wanted to make sure people had knowledge of this because their might be slight differences in the two kits.  Especially in the plating.  Thanks


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## DozerMite (Aug 1, 2008)

But they use the same bit and bushings as the Sierra. Big plus for me. I don't have more bushings to buy. Their plating seems to be good too, at least the titanium.


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## brycej (Aug 1, 2008)

makaiolani said:


> He is still waiting on his patent number to come through for his Elegant Beauty pen kits.



Aaron, do you know which country he is trying to patent the pen in and what the basis of the patent is?


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## makaiolani (Aug 1, 2008)

I'm not sure.  But some of their other pens have patent numbers.

D115589 for the magnetic cap pen
D121279 for the Retro Pen


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## brycej (Aug 1, 2008)

Those are not US patents. Those numbers are for other patents in the US.


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## makaiolani (Aug 2, 2008)

Probably.  That's why I said that he probably can't do anything unless Berea's manufacturer is in Taiwan or something.


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## ldb2000 (Aug 2, 2008)

I'm not so sure that Berea even violated any patents , it looks like they took a sierra and made it look like the Elegant Beauty , it looks like the barrel twists not the finial so it is a different design


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## MesquiteMan (Aug 2, 2008)

ldb2000 said:


> I'm not so sure that Berea even violated any patents , it looks like they took a sierra and made it look like the Elegant Beauty , it looks like the barrel twists not the finial so it is a different design


 
Probably true but pretty crappy and poor marketing to use the same name.  That is just absurd!


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## brycej (Aug 2, 2008)

MesquiteMan said:


> Probably true but pretty crappy and poor marketing to use the same name.  That is just absurd!



Then I guess you would have to say that Dayacom is pretty crappy too. They have Sierra type, Sedona type, Churchill type...


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## makaiolani (Aug 3, 2008)

hmmm.  I should ask if Dayacom came up with those kits.  Do you think I'll get a straight answer?  It does seem like Dayacom comes up with a lot of original pens.


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## MesquiteMan (Aug 3, 2008)

Who konws where the truth is!  As far as we know, Dayacom may make the Sedona and Churchill for Berea.  We know that they make most of CSUSA's pen kits, thus the similar names. 

I still stand by my original comment about the absurdity of Berea using the same name.  That would be similar to Gorilla Glue calling a white urethane glue "Sumo Gorilla Glue"!


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## redfishsc (Aug 3, 2008)

MesquiteMan said:


> I still stand by my original comment about the absurdity of Berea using the same name.  That would be similar to Gorilla Glue calling a white urethane glue "Sumo Gorilla Glue"!




SSSSHHHH!!! Don't give them another gimmicky name! Though that does conjure up an interesting mental image!


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## clthayer (Aug 3, 2008)

makaiolani said:


> I'm not sure.  But some of their other pens have patent numbers.
> 
> D115589 for the magnetic cap pen
> D121279 for the Retro Pen



Didn't CSU come out with the Jr. Retro FIRST???


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## MesquiteMan (Aug 3, 2008)

clthayer said:


> Didn't CSU come out with the Jr. Retro FIRST???


 
Dayacom makes the ktis for CSUSA.


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## brycej (Aug 4, 2008)

MesquiteMan said:


> Who konws where the truth is!  As far as we know, Dayacom may make the Sedona and Churchill for Berea.  We know that they make most of CSUSA's pen kits, thus the similar names.
> 
> I still stand by my original comment about the absurdity of Berea using the same name.  That would be similar to Gorilla Glue calling a white urethane glue "Sumo Gorilla Glue"!



It is hard to imagine that a company that originates a design would call it xxxxx Style. All I am getting at is that this practice is very common in this industry and all manufactures do it. Dayacom is no better than anyone else.

I really like Dayacom kits. I think the do a great job of them. I have made a number of their Elegant Beauty kits and they are very nice. But I am not a Dayacom fanboy either.


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## MesquiteMan (Aug 4, 2008)

brycej said:


> But I am not a Dayacom fanboy either.


 
I guess you think I am, huh?:laugh:  Seriously, I could not care less on this issue other than I think it is really lousy marketing to use someone else's name as part of yours.  I might expect it from a Taiwan company but certainly not an American company.

Anyone want to buy a Ford Tahoe Expedition?  How about a Diet Pepsi Coke?  I got it, how about a Uni-Saw Stop!


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## Russianwolf (Aug 4, 2008)

I know what you're getting at Curtis. In this case it's especially obvious since one is a completely different pen than the other. One is a dressed up Sierra, while the other is a completely original kit (different size, different bushings, different mechanism).

It would be like someone taking a Baron and adding embelishments (new clip, new centerband, new trim) to then selling it as a Lotus.


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## wood-of-1kind (Aug 4, 2008)

MesquiteMan said:


> I
> Anyone want to buy a Ford Tahoe Expedition?  How about a Diet Pepsi Coke?  I got it, how about a Uni-Saw Stop!




Curtis, "Super Moderator"? How about "Super Salesman"?


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## jrc (Aug 5, 2008)

These companies all copy each other.  Look at china.  Berea has had pens copyed over the years and I think it is good they do what has been done to them.


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## redfishsc (Aug 5, 2008)

MesquiteMan said:


> I guess you think I am, huh?:laugh:  Seriously, I could not care less on this issue other than I think it is really lousy marketing to use someone else's name as part of yours.  I might expect it from a Taiwan company but certainly not an American company.
> 
> Anyone want to buy a Ford Tahoe Expedition?  How about a Diet Pepsi Coke?  I got it, how about a Uni-Saw Stop!




Hey---- I just bought an Altendorf 66 Unisawstop. Goes great with my Grizzlyjet bandsawlathe.


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## bitshird (Aug 5, 2008)

Guys China is not exactly recognized as a country that goes out of it's way to honor or observe any copywrite whether design or for intellectual property.
 A few very large companies have tried to bring suit for violation and gotten nowhere one being little Billy Gates and his Makro$haft software company.
 I'm not sure what take Taiwan has, but I doubt if their official position places copywrite infringement very high on it's list of things to stop.


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## brycej (Aug 5, 2008)

MesquiteMan said:


> I guess you think I am, huh?:laugh:



Not even for a second Curtis.


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## makaiolani (Aug 5, 2008)

Russianwolf said:


> I know what you're getting at Curtis. In this case it's especially obvious since one is a completely different pen than the other. One is a dressed up Sierra, while the other is a completely original kit (different size, different bushings, different mechanism).
> 
> It would be like someone taking a Baron and adding embelishments (new clip, new centerband, new trim) to then selling it as a Lotus.



Actually The Baron was a copy of the Jr. Gentleman that Dayacom and CSUSA come up with first.  The Gentleman and Jr. were out for at least a year before the Barons came out.  Then CSUSA changed their sizes due to the imitations because the original Jr.'s were the exact same drill bit size.


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## redfishsc (Aug 5, 2008)

In the midst of wondering who has copied who, consider that a good number of our companies have basically cloned the shape of a lot of other pens. 

Consider how the "euro" pens look identical in shape to the typical Mont Blanc twist pen.

The Jr. Retro is a near identical clone to another FP that I've seen, though I can't recall the name. I was selling a FP to a customer who collected FP's, and he had a rather old pen that had a cap, clip, and finial that were a spitting image of the Retro.


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## Rudy Vey (Aug 6, 2008)

makaiolani said:


> Actually The Baron was a copy of the Jr. Gentleman that Dayacom and CSUSA come up with first.  The Gentleman and Jr. were out for at least a year before the Barons came out.  Then CSUSA changed their sizes due to the imitations because the original Jr.'s were the exact same drill bit size.


And Berea brought out the El Grande and CSUSA copied it a few years later with the Ligero - so this copying of each others product is going both ways.


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## DCBluesman (Aug 6, 2008)

These discussions regarding patents are full of inaccuracies and half-truths.  The claims being presented do not follow acceptable guidelines for either international protection or USPTO protection.  Additionally, as best I can determine, they do not follow Taiwanese protection either.
 
Standard roller ball, ballpoint and fountain pens are really not eligible for protection as a utility patent as utility patents are only issued for a new and useful *process, machine, manufacture, or composition of matter*, or any new and useful improvement thereof.
 
Obviously these items are not eligible for plant patents as these are only issued to someone who has invented or discovered and asexually reproduced any distinct and new variety of plant, including cultivated sports, mutants, hybrids, and newly found seedlings, other than a tuber-propagated plant or a plant found in an uncultivated state.
 
The leaves the final category, the design patent.  Not all countries recognize design patents.  Design patents are issued to any person who has invented any *new and nonobvious ornamental design* for an article of manufacture.
 
A design for an article of manufacture that is dictated primarily by the function of the article lacks ornamentality and is not proper statutory subject matter under 35 U.S.C. 171. Specifically, if at the time the design was created, there was no unique or distinctive shape or appearance to the article not dictated by the function that it performs, the design lacks ornamentality and is not proper subject matter. In addition, 35 U.S.C. 171 requires that a design to be patentable must be “original.” Clearly a design that simulates a well-known or naturally occurring object or person is not original as required by the statute. Furthermore, subject matter that could be considered offensive to any race, religion, sex, ethnic group, or nationality is not proper subject matter for a design patent application (35 U.S.C. 171 and 37 CFR § 1.3).  (for additional information on U.S. design patents, see http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/design/index.html#top
 
As the holder of two design patents, I find it a bit discouraging for folks to perpetuate myths on the subject.  Just because one design looks for the world like the next does not mean there is a violation.  A patent is NOT like copy right.  Copyright exists at the time of creation.  Patents must be applied for and granted (and often defended).
 
I have yet to see any kit which is truly unique and does not borrow heavily in its design from pens manufactured in prior eras.  And as a factual record, the patent numbers listed by Dayacom are not international or US patents.  A search of Taiwan patents does not list these patents, however I cannot claim these are not Taiwanese patents as I do not read Chinese.
 
Additional discussion on international patents can be found at the World Intellectual Property Organization website, http://www.wipo.int/classifications/en/ 
 
Let's try to be a bit more vigilant in stamping out *misinformation*.


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## Mikey (Aug 6, 2008)

Sweet. I just came up with this new device that uses ink held inside a tub type body and it has a cap on it to keep you from getting it in your shirt pocket. Yes, there is even a holder that fastens on to your shirt.

What you say, that is nothing new!?!? DARN!!! 

LMAO. it's a pen and most of these designs have been copied from pens that are decades old. 

Anyway, thanks Lou.


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## Jarheaded (Aug 6, 2008)

"Let's try to be a bit more vigilant in stamping out *misinformation*"

Oh come on Lou, thats what the internet is all about, passing on as much misinformation as possible in the shortest time possible.


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## mrplace (Aug 6, 2008)

Jarheaded said:


> Oh come on Lou, thats what the internet is all about, passing on as much misinformation as possible in the shortest time possible.



You forgot to add that this message needed to be sent to everyone in your address book or you won't win the lottery!!:tongue:


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## makaiolani (Aug 7, 2008)

Sorry I wasn't trying to spread misinformation.  I was just trying to get some information.


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