# "Other Turnings" Forum?



## jeff

Should we have a dedicated forum for turnings other than pens?


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## JimGo

Wow, you're really on a "new forum" kick!  I think the "other turnings" would be nice, to kind of distinguish those from the other stuff we talk about in Casual Conversation.  I know some people don't read the posts in CC, but they might at least review the stuff in Other Turnings.


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## Gary Max

If you go that route are you going to change the name to--- Pens and other things???????????????


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## Ron in Drums PA

I voted Yes!!


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## ed4copies

> _Originally posted by Ron in Drums PA_
> <br />I voted Yes!!



ME TOO!

(Actually got off the fence for a change!)


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## DCBluesman

Hell NO!  This is the International Association of PENTURNERS.  There are sites out there for hollow forms and bowls and God only knows what else.  I come here to read about PENTURNING.  I hated the fact that we opened up "Casual Conversation" to "Other Stuff" but to go to new forums for other types of woodworking will diffuse the focus and result in this forum looking like every other woodworking forum on the 'net. It won't take long for penturners to become the "red-haired stepchild".  PENS 'R US!


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## Jerryconn

> _Originally posted by DCBluesman_
> <br />Hell NO!  This is the International Association of PENTURNERS.



Hey Lou, tell us how you really feel!  [] Just kidding, please don't get upset ......... I voted no as well.

(Announcers voice on)
With 2% of the votes in, we are ready to call this poll in favor of "Other Turnings"
(Announcers voice off)


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## ed4copies

(Announcers voice back on)

"In poll exit interviews, we find the "No"s are much more passionate!"

[:0][:0][:0][:0]


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## Rifleman1776

A whole new site maybe for other turnings. But, this is a pen turning forum or it ain't.


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## JTaylor801

I voted no.  Like others have said, this forum is about turning pens.  The other category, while it wouldn't be mandatory, I feel would end up being a "free for all" with no organization.  If turning bowls is your passion, then go join the International Association of Bowlturners.

I've only been a member here at the IAP for about a week...so I'm no expert.  But I like the organization of the site and the forum categories.  It's easy for me if I want to research or ask a question on finishing or marketing.  

Jerry


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## DCBluesman

I have placed the call and the hits have been ordered.  Murphy is booking flights, even as I type this, to visit the shop of each person who votes YES.  

Yea, verily I say.  The wrath of Murphy be on all ye who have strayed from the path. The plagues will come upon you.  First will be the drying up of your bottles of CA...opened or unopened.  Next will follow the bowing of your mandrels.  Non-concentric pens will flow from your lathes.  The third plague shall come in the form of plain, straight-grained wood which will re-orient itself straight even if you cross-cut it.  Fourth will be the clogging of sandpaper. Three quick revolutions of your lathe and your sandpaper will be rendered useless...even on dry, hard maple.  The fifth plague will come in the form of unsharp tools.  No amount of honing, no Wolverine jig, no Tormek will give you an edge that lasts more than 15 seconds.  The sixth plague will arrive in the form of drill bit drift.  This drift will be made greater as the cost of your blank increases.  The final plague will come in the form of catches and blowouts.  Any tool, any grit of sandpaper, even Novus polish when applied to your nearly finished blanks will cause them to blowout into at least 5 pieces, one of which will never be found.  Oh ye den of vipers.  Repent while you still can! [8D]


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## Ron in Drums PA

> _Originally posted by DCBluesman_
> <br />I have placed the call and the hits have been ordered.  Murphy is booking flights, even as I type this, to visit the shop of each person who votes YES.



Donworryaboit, My cousin Louie can handle Murphy! []


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## wood-of-1kind

Forgive us, Father (Lou) for we have sinned.[]

-Peter-


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## dubdrvrkev

Wait a minute... You've got a bowl in your album Lou. [}][}] Do you mean to tell us that you would upload such a picture to this Holy place of pen turning?
That said... I think there is a small enough amout of "other turnings" posted to leave it in Casual, as much as it pains some. I post lots of my other stuff here because more e-friends here than some other places. Some of you may want to cover your ears...err eyes while I say that pen turning is not my main focus, its more of a time filler.


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## ctEaglesc

> _Originally posted by DCBluesman_
> <br />Hell NO!  This is the International Association of PENTURNERS.  There are sites out there for hollow forms and bowls and God only knows what else.  I come here to read about PENTURNING.  I hated the fact that we opened up "Casual Conversation" to "Other Stuff" but to go to new forums for other types of woodworking will diffuse the focus and result in this forum looking like every other woodworking forum on the 'net. It won't take long for penturners to become the "red-haired stepchild".  PENS 'R US!


I agree with Lou (He is so over the top!)
I visit other turning forums and usually feel like the red headed stepchild that Lou mentions in fact I believe he got the expression from me.
I have learned to accept it.
It may be the reason I do not turn bowls.
I feel I have just scratched the surface  in the direction I wish to go in with  this craft.
If you turn a piece and want to show it  fine casual conversation.
Are you going to start a forum "Other Woodworking"
I don't want to belittle anyone with their efforts because I know how I feel when I tell a turner I make pens, and the reaction is a big"HO HUM" saying under his breath "I remember when I just started I used to do that too.but then I learned how to turn BOWLS!I am a real turner!"Well I am not a turner at all the lathe is just one of many tools I use.
 I vote a vehement no (but not so over the top as Lou.)[^]


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## kenwc

No No No No No No No No (It would only let me vote once so I'm trying to stuff the ballot box)

BTW....NO - This is Penturners.org.  Not penandcandleholderandbowlandtrivetandhollowform.org...!!!


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## ctEaglesc

> _Originally posted by DCBluesman_
> <br />I have placed the call and the hits have been ordered.  Murphy is booking flights, even as I type this, to visit the shop of each person who votes YES.
> 
> Yea, verily I say.  The wrath of Murphy be on all ye who have strayed from the path. The plagues will come upon you.  First will be the drying up of your bottles of CA...opened or unopened.  Next will follow the bowing of your mandrels.  Non-concentric pens will flow from your lathes.  The third plague shall come in the form of plain, straight-grained wood which will re-orient itself straight even if you cross-cut it.  Fourth will be the clogging of sandpaper. Three quick revolutions of your lathe and your sandpaper will be rendered useless...even on dry, hard maple.  The fifth plague will come in the form of unsharp tools.  No amount of honing, no Wolverine jig, no Tormek will give you an edge that lasts more than 15 seconds.  The sixth plague will arrive in the form of drill bit drift.  This drift will be made greater as the cost of your blank increases.  The final plague will come in the form of catches and blowouts.  Any tool, any grit of sandpaper, even Novus polish when applied to your nearly finished blanks will cause them to blowout into at least 5 pieces, one of which will never be found.  Oh ye den of vipers.  Repent while you still can! [8D]



See what I mean about being over the top?
I agree with him , but I wish he wouldn't get do melodramatic,


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## guts

I think the name says it all(penturners)


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## Ron in Drums PA

Of course this is a pen turning site, but I'll guess most of us turn more than just pens. I know I do.
Why chase us "other" turners away to other sites? Isn't this forum a community where we can share?

Beside, other turning doesn't have to equate to just bowls, there are bottle stoppers, pepper mills, game calls, confetti lamps and so on.

For me, I learned a great deal about segmented turning by turning segmented pens. Along the way I picked up a few tricks in turning segmented pens. 

I started turning finials on hollow forms lately and what I learned in pen turning came in quite helpful. Along the way I have a dozen ideas that I learned in finials that I plan on trying out on some pens.

What one learns in one type of turning can help us learn something new in another. The idea is learning and growing. Why stop?

---
Edit in

Come to think of it, allot of what I learned in flat woodworking has helped me in all types of woodturning. Lately I've found that my flat work has improved because of woodturning. It all goes hand in hand


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## jvsank

I voted no


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## loglugger

> _Originally posted by DCBluesman_
> <br />I have placed the call and the hits have been ordered.  Murphy is booking flights, even as I type this, to visit the shop of each person who votes YES.
> 
> Yea, verily I say.  The wrath of Murphy be on all ye who have strayed from the path. The plagues will come upon you.  First will be the drying up of your bottles of CA...opened or unopened.  Next will follow the bowing of your mandrels.  Non-concentric pens will flow from your lathes.  The third plague shall come in the form of plain, straight-grained wood which will re-orient itself straight even if you cross-cut it.  Fourth will be the clogging of sandpaper. Three quick revolutions of your lathe and your sandpaper will be rendered useless...even on dry, hard maple.  The fifth plague will come in the form of unsharp tools.  No amount of honing, no Wolverine jig, no Tormek will give you an edge that lasts more than 15 seconds.  The sixth plague will arrive in the form of drill bit drift.  This drift will be made greater as the cost of your blank increases.  The final plague will come in the form of catches and blowouts.  Any tool, any grit of sandpaper, even Novus polish when applied to your nearly finished blanks will cause them to blowout into at least 5 pieces, one of which will never be found.  Oh ye den of vipers.  Repent while you still can! [8D]



Heck that is the normal things that always going on around here already.
Bob


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## ctEaglesc

Put a nib on a bowl and write with it and I guess it qould be O.K.


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## kenwc

A few democrats get in office and LOOK WHAT HAPPENS...!!!!


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## cozee

I voted yes simply because I am interested in the possibility of doing other turnings  but only secondary to pens. I do not see where this forum will become overrun with bowl turners, stopper turners, or other turners since they already have thier own, well established forums. 



> Yea, verily I say. The wrath of Murphy be on all ye who have strayed from the path. The plagues will come upon you. First will be the drying up of your bottles of CA...opened or unopened. Next will follow the bowing of your mandrels. Non-concentric pens will flow from your lathes. The third plague shall come in the form of plain, straight-grained wood which will re-orient itself straight even if you cross-cut it. Fourth will be the clogging of sandpaper. Three quick revolutions of your lathe and your sandpaper will be rendered useless...even on dry, hard maple. The fifth plague will come in the form of unsharp tools. No amount of honing, no Wolverine jig, no Tormek will give you an edge that lasts more than 15 seconds. The sixth plague will arrive in the form of drill bit drift. This drift will be made greater as the cost of your blank increases. The final plague will come in the form of catches and blowouts. Any tool, any grit of sandpaper, even Novus polish when applied to your nearly finished blanks will cause them to blowout into at least 5 pieces, one of which will never be found. Oh ye den of vipers. Repent while you still can!



You do realize that it is traditional that when the words of a prophet do not come true, they are to be stoned to death!!!!![] 

Anybody need a rock?!!!!!!![]


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## PenWorks

I voted yes because I like the convenience of the one stop shop. I don't have the time to visit other forums, so seeing the occassional bowl, stopper , vase is a nice change. I think we are all still mostly pentuners at heart, but seeing other things we make won't kill us. 

Oh...cocked & locked should I see Murphy []


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## JimGo

Intresting...the yes people seem to be the (relatively) silent majority.


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## Dario

I voted YES...and proud of it [^]....let the vote tally decide []


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## Mudder

> _Originally posted by DCBluesman_
> <br />Hell NO!  This is the International Association of PENTURNERS.



Hmmmm,

Let's carry this to the extreme.

If you say that this is a site for penturning and penturning only then Casting & Stabilization should be gone because making the blank is not penturning. I don't see where Pen Photography has anything to do with penturning and there are quite a few of those forums on the net. Neither is Shops, Jigs, Fixtures & Tools, or  Marketing & Shows. What does Trades & Giveaways have to do with penturning?  Group Purchases is not penturning, nor is the Individual or Business Classifieds. Where is the line to be drawn?
Lately I have made more bowls and boxes than pens, it would be nice to have a place to post them.

I voted yes so I guess I'll leave the porch light on so the hit man knows the correct house and does not shoot my innocent neighbor. 








P.S. If there was an other turnings forum then it would get all of that out of casual conversation and those who don't care to look know exactly what forum not to look at.


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## jeffj13

I realize that I am a newbie without much say, but I voted "no".  The reason that I began to visit this site is not because it was a penturning forum, but because it was a penturning association.  I appreciated that its sole purpose was the pursuit of making a better pen.  Its focus on one discipline was what attracted me here.

I do other types of turnings and I do flatwork as well, but there are other forums for that.  Would it be convenient to have a bowl forum here, perhaps.  Would it make a better Association, I  don't think so.

I don't believe that the IAP should be the "be all, end all" for woodturning, just for pens.  


jeff


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## ctEaglesc

> _Originally posted by Mudder_
> <br />
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Originally posted by DCBluesman_
> <br />Hell NO!  This is the International Association of PENTURNERS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmmm,
> 
> Let's carry this to the extreme.
> 
> If you say that this is a site for penturning and penturning only then Casting & Stabilization should be gone because making the blank is not penturning. I don't see where Pen Photography has anything to do with penturning and there are quite a few of those forums on the net. Neither is Shops, Jigs, Fixtures & Tools, or  Marketing & Shows. What does Trades & Giveaways have to do with penturning?  Group Purchases is not penturning, nor is the Individual or Business Classifieds. Where is the line to be drawn?
> Lately I have made more bowls and boxes than pens, it would be nice to have a place to post them.
> 
> I voted yes so I guess I'll leave the porch light on so the hit man knows the correct house and does not shoot my innocent neighbor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. If there was an other turnings forum then it would get all of that out of casual conversation and those who don't care to look know exactly what forum not to look at.
Click to expand...


About two years ago there was a debate about adding a Finishing Forum" to this site.To this day I believe a separate forum for finishing is redundant since finishing a pen is most of the "work" .
Once you remove the finishing step from Penturning you are left with "how to turn on the lathe" and "how to turn off the wood"
The addition of the finishing Forum if you will segmented the process.
At that time though, there were few who were casting their own resins,simple glue ups  had been posted  but not to the extent and intricacy we see posted today.
My point being , every section of the site you said would be unnecessary relates to penturning.I choke when I say this but even a casting forum if someone is casting their own pen blanks.
The IAP ran a contest with pens and a way to display them in conjunction  with Wood turning and Design 2 years ago.Would you suggest them displays should not have been allowed if they were not turned?
I relate every forum I read on this site to pen turning, even casual conversation.If we are an <b>Association </b>of penturners would it not make sense to associate with them and what goes on in their lives?
The Casual Conversation Forum allows us to post as a part of the <b>community</b> that has developed here.If as a penturner you make a bowl in another part of your life , post it there.If you make a sleigh bed in your shop and are proud of it, post it in casual conversation.
Sorry Mudder you went so far overboard to refute Lous position you went from the sublime to the ridiculous .
If I got to the Photography forum I expect to find out how to take better pictures of pens.
If I got to the classified section I expect to see items for sale that relate to pens.
The same applies to every section of the site  you mentioned
When I go to a turning site I see very little that is offered to pencrafters.
I have said and still believe Bowl turners look upon those in this craft as "beginners" who will eventually "grow- up" and turn bowls.
Well this "beginner" likes the shallow end of the pool, let the"big kids" stay in their deep end.
This site does not need  a forum for  other turnings.
I think we will have to agree to disagree.
Eagle
Member of the international Association of <b>PENTURNERS</b>


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## Darley

I joined he IAP ( International Association of Penturner ) because of what it's, we do have very good pen makers and pen turners, Eagle reply very well about this subject and I will second him, you want to show your other turning go to the casual conversation or add a 2nd photo album to show your master pieces.

Jeff you created this site with Scott as an "" Association of Penturner "" please keep it as it's, Thanks


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## kent4Him

I voted Yes.  This is an association of Penturners, not pen turning.  Penturners are allowed to turn other things.  The only requirement to using an "Other Turnings" forum should be that the user also turns pens and that is primarily why they are here.


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## Ron in Drums PA

I would like to say thank you to everyone who participated in this thread. 

This has been a very civil debate.

Jeff, when will you make a decision?


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## Jerryconn

(John Kerry voice on)
I voted yes before I voted no!
(John Kerry voice off)


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## Darley

> _Originally posted by kent4Him_
> <br />I voted Yes.  This is an association of Penturners, not pen turning.  Penturners are allowed to turn other things.  The only requirement to using an "Other Turnings" forum should be that the user also turns pens and that is primarily why they are here.



What do you mean by this statement??? are you on med? BTW you look good on the roof[][]


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## chitswood

This one is kind of a strange poll for me, cause I don't turn pens, I turn bowls and such.

My vote says no on an "other turnings" forums. Its usually fun to try something new or experiment, but this forum should stay dedicated to pens only. 
I like it here just the way it is, no need to change what this website represents.


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## jeffj13

> _Originally posted by kent4Him_
> <br />I voted Yes.  This is an association of Penturners, not pen turning.  Penturners are allowed to turn other things.  The only requirement to using an "Other Turnings" forum should be that the user also turns pens and that is primarily why they are here.



Chris,


I respect your position, but the argument you have raised could also be made to allow a forum for virtually any activity.  For example, substitute "flat work" or "home repair" or "golf" for "other turning" and your argument is just as valid.  Do we want to go down that road?

Also, while I can't speak for other, that this is a penturner's association is not why I am primarily here, it is exclusively why I am here.  Speaking only for me, to "water down" focus of the org., would cause it to lose some appeal.

jeff


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## ilikewood

No.  I already have too much to do to try and keep up with other stuff.


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## Ron in Drums PA

Chit and Jeffj13

I don't think Penturners.org will be overrun by a flood of other turnings just because there is a new forum.  What's wrong with showing others the types of work we do on a lathe? Yes, we can post a vase on the Casual Conversation Forum. But I think that forum is better suited for shooting the breeze.


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## jeff

> _Originally posted by Ron in Drums PA_
> <br />I would like to say thank you to everyone who participated in this thread.
> 
> This has been a very civil debate.
> 
> Jeff, when will you make a decision?


Next Saturday morning after the poll has been open for a week. 

Here's what I think <b>in favor</b> of another forum. (1) It might keep more people here. I don't really want to chase people to another forum to post their other stuff. (2) Seeing different stuff can provide inspiration for us to try new things and might contribute to domestic harmony. Perhaps you people with significant others will get more "support" for penturning if something other than pens comes out of your shop now and then. []

<b>Against...</b> Maybe it undermines the "purity" of the IAP. I can see the points being made by those opposed.


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## Mudder

> _Originally posted by ctEaglesc_
> <br />
> Sorry Mudder you went so far overboard to refute Lous position you went from the sublime to the ridiculous .



Eagle,

You missed the whole point.

One other thing, I don't take kindly to being called ridiculous. I guess you forgot what today is the anniversary of (besides veterans day). Perhaps history is doomed to repeat itself.

Scott
Proud member of the International Association of Penturners.

I also make bowls, boxes, candlesticks, rolling pins, Christmas ornaments, turned jewelry, lamps, chair legs, table legs, canes, walking sticks, etc., etc.


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## Mudder

> _Originally posted by jeff_
> <br />Maybe it undermines the "purity" of the IAP.



Can't help but wonder......... If pictures of "other" turnings are already being posted, hasn't the "purity" of the IAP already been undermined?


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## jeffj13

> _Originally posted by Mudder_
> <br />
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Originally posted by jeff_
> <br />Maybe it undermines the "purity" of the IAP.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can't help but wonder......... If pictures of "other" turnings are already being posted, hasn't the "purity" of the IAP already been undermined?
Click to expand...


With all do respect, I can't help but wonder if pictures of "other" turnings are already being posted, why do we need another forum? [?] 

jeff


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## ctEaglesc

> _Originally posted by Mudder_
> <br />
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Originally posted by ctEaglesc_
> <br />
> Sorry Mudder you went so far overboard to refute Lous position you went from the sublime to the ridiculous .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eagle,
> 
> You missed the whole point.
> 
> One other thing, I don't take kindly to being called ridiculous. I guess you forgot what today is the anniversary of (besides veterans day). Perhaps history is doomed to repeat itself.
> 
> Scott
> Proud member of the International Association of Penturners.
> 
> I also make bowls, boxes, candlesticks, rolling pins, Christmas ornaments, turned jewelry, lamps, chair legs, table legs, canes, walking sticks, etc., etc.
Click to expand...


That is nice.
I only make pens.That is why I come to the site that is called the International Association of PENturners.
Is there a site for the international association of the other things you make?(BTW I didn't mention the opther writing implement that looks like a pen but doesn't use ink[]I aint going there)


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## ctEaglesc

> _Originally posted by jeffj13_
> <br />
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Originally posted by Mudder_
> <br />
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Originally posted by jeff_
> <br />Maybe it undermines the "purity" of the IAP.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can't help but wonder......... If pictures of "other" turnings are already being posted, hasn't the "purity" of the IAP already been undermined?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> With all do respect, I can't help but wonder if pictures of "other" turnings are already being posted, why do we need another forum? [?]
> 
> jeff
Click to expand...

Now THAT was good!


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## jeff

Is the concern that we'd get a lot of members who are not penturners just flooding us with other turnings? 

I guess there are two ways to look at this. (1) If we are a community, then maybe we're interested in other things we do which are closely related to penturning. (2) If we're a laser-focused association of penturners, then we should not have casual conversation, marketing, or anything else that isn't 100% tied to making pens. Every single post should be directly related to penturning.

The sense I get from some of these comments is that we need only one forum: penturning. I guess I should start polling about which forums to delete. [}]


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## ctEaglesc

Out of curiosity, does the Mission Statement of this site Still exist?
I can't seem to laocate it.


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## Trapshooter

I voted no, just because it currently has the least amount of votes.  I came TO this site for pen information to learn and someday maybe contribute enough to show somone else an idea they may not have had.  What comes after that is a benefit that a strait, PEN TALK site would not have.
  Having a seperate forum will not change my wanting to visit this site or my desire to look in casual conversation, tips or tricks etc...  I still enjoy the feeling of "family" like wishing someones relatives get well and prayers and thoughts to fellow penturners with relatives serving our country.  That is why I STAY.  So in the end it does not matter, to me this is still an INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF PENTURNERS who choses to share the other things we do that make us who we are.  Look at what you like, don't look at what you are not interested in, simple.


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## kenwc

I've gotten much more from this site than I've given. I've learned ALOT...!!  I'm about to embark on making some bowls but I'd never even think of bringing those issues here to this forum.  I have another forum for that.  I also make Bottle Stoppers but I have another forum for that as well. Nice and tidy. This is the best forum I'm on. I'd really hate to see it diluted.


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## Jim in Oakville

Hi,

After some thought I voted no. 

I think what I like here at IAP are the discussions on pen making and related pen topics.  This forum moves very fast, and I am afraid that it would get diluted from what we like best here.  I like to come here and focus or share thoughts related to pen making.

As many of us here know there are many other turning forums, woodworking forums and places to gain insight from knowledgeable people there as well.  I think that if your passion lies in those areas you should try to benefit from a larger circle of eyes and thoughts that can help you there to gain what you desire.

I also feel that the Casual Forum is a place where we can occasionally maybe show another side of who we are in what we like to make or share.  We often use that forum to discuss and develop thoughts that are less pen focused than the majority of forums here.


I participate on 5 other forums, I like them all.  IAP is a special forum for me and I like the balance we have here.

[]


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## ctEaglesc

A lot of saw dust has gone out the door since you and I met at the Canadian Woodworking site t years ago,huh Jim?


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## Jim in Oakville

> _Originally posted by ctEaglesc_
> <br />A lot of saw dust has gone out the door since you and I met at the Canadian Woodworking site t years ago,huh Jim?



Sure has Eagle...I always appreciated having you on the CWW..  It was always good having you there, it was mostly 99% Canadian and 1% US participants...You did well as the 1%!!  You were always well thought of.  Actually I had lunch with Bill MacDonald from Toronto yesterday, I mentioned I see you here often...he's into building Model cars now and is a moderator on a forum in that topic.  We both turned down chances to moderate the CWW...time has changed the balance there dramatically in the last year.  I have been on the CWW since 1996, it is my longest standing forum I participate on.

Always a pleasure Eagle.

[]


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## jeffj13

> _Originally posted by jeff_
> <br />Is the concern that we'd get a lot of members who are not penturners just flooding us with other turnings?
> 
> I guess there are two ways to look at this. (1) If we are a community, then maybe we're interested in other things we do which are closely related to penturning. (2) If we're a laser-focused association of penturners, then we should not have casual conversation, marketing, or anything else that isn't 100% tied to making pens. Every single post should be directly related to penturning.
> 
> The sense I get from some of these comments is that we need only one forum: penturning. I guess I should start polling about which forums to delete. [}]



Jeff,

I am disappointed in your post.  Your comments remind me of my daughter, who, when in a discussion, will immediately gravitate only on the extremes of a position, without considering compromise and then attempt to make me miserable by taking an unreasonable action. 

The fact of the matter is that there is middle ground and I had thought we had already had it.

I see it this way.:

We are an association of penturners.  Our discussions center around all aspects of pensmaking.  This would include the tools used to make pens, the creating of pen blanks, the making and displaying of pens, pen supplies and the marketing and selling of pens. While our focus is pens, we understand that there are other things to turn besides pens.  For that reason we created the Casual Conversations forum.  Not "1" or "2", but somewhere in the middle.  

That being said, while I would prefer things as they are, I'm not going to go ballistic if you change things.  At the end of the day, we will still have a good site and I will still come here.


jeff


----------



## jeff

> _Originally posted by ctEaglesc_
> <br />Out of curiosity, does the Mission Statement of this site Still exist?
> I can't seem to laocate it.



Here it is:


> The International Association of Penturners (IAP) is an organization that recognizes penturning as a branch of woodturning with unique and distinctive character. Penturning encompasses a vast array of techniques, materials, technical knowledge, and novel approaches to produce a functional, aesthetically appealing writing instrument. The goal of the IAP is to give penturners a place to enhance their skills, share experiences, and promote the art of penturning.



It's on the About Us page.


----------



## jeff

> Jeff,
> 
> I am disappointed in your post.  Your comments remind me of my daughter, who, when in a discussion, will immediately gravitate only on the extremes of a position, without considering compromise and then attempt to make me miserable by taking an unreasonable action.
> 
> The fact of the matter is that there is middle ground and I had thought we had already had it.
> 
> &lt;snip&gt;



Easy there, Jeff. I'm provoking discussion, not taking a position.


----------



## Darley

Here it is:


> The International Association of Penturners (IAP) is an organization that recognizes penturning as a branch of woodturning with unique and distinctive character. Penturning encompasses a vast array of techniques, materials, technical knowledge, and novel approaches to produce a functional, aesthetically appealing writing instrument. The goal of the IAP is to give penturners a place to enhance their skills, share experiences, and promote the art of penturning.



It's on the About Us page.


[/quote]

Well say Jeff and I hope you keep it that way, other turning can go to cassual comversation,


----------



## TellicoTurning

Jeff,
I need to change my vote... Lou's curse of the Murphy has made me see the error of my ways.[][][][][]


----------



## DCBluesman

> _Originally posted by jeff_
> <br />Is the concern that we'd get a lot of members who are not penturners just flooding us with other turnings?
> 
> I guess there are two ways to look at this. (1) If we are a community, then maybe we're interested in other things we do which are closely related to penturning. (2) If we're a laser-focused association of penturners, then we should not have casual conversation, marketing, or anything else that isn't 100% tied to making pens. Every single post should be directly related to penturning.
> 
> The sense I get from some of these comments is that we need only one forum: penturning. I guess I should start polling about which forums to delete. [}]



<b>Well, Jeff, YES, we are (or at least we were) laser-focused on all things personally-made pen-related.</b>  This debate happened shortly after <u>you</u> amd <u>Scott</u> founded this forum.  It was widely debated...<u>Russ</u>...<u>Kenn</u>...<u>Bob</u>...<u>Ed</u>...and a lot of others.  A <b>Mission statement</b> was drawn up.  Guidelines were established.  The group, forum and the association were about PENS (and pencils []).  The <u>objectives were ratified</u> not only by the <u>members</u>, but also by the short-lived <u>Board of Directors</u>.  <b>Yes, the mission of this site is all things (personally-made) pens. Period.</b>  

Now as I have said before, this is your living room.  Host whatever meetings (forums) you want.  But I will predict that there will be a <u>de-focusing on pens</u> in fairly short order.  Once that happens, there will be another <b>Jeff</b> and another <b>Scott</b> who will decide that there's a place in this world for folks who have a tight grip and focus on a hobby...making pens.  Yes, some will want to talk about how to finsh the pens they make, some will want to learn how to photograph the pens they make, others will want to discuss how to market the pens they make.  These people will NOT want to discuss how someone finishes bowls <u>which they do not make</u>.

Generic turning forums:
http://www.woodturner.org/vbforum/forumdisplay.php?f=2
http://www.woodturningonline.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=5.
http://www.woodturningcenter.org/WTCBB/viewforum.php?f=2&sid=63c5ddb97f98f8dbb55ba1d9ac769c6b
http://www.woodworking.com/dcforum/dcboard.pl?az=list&forum=DCForumID13&conf=DCConfID3
http://www.forums.woodnet.net/ubbthreads/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=turning
http://dgroups.woodmagazine.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?webtag=woodturning
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/forumdisplay.php?s=4a3280b899a43163d1f7127b84202c0d&f=20
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/forumdisplay.php?s=1e7044962da094f05a3d4476b8f8faa5&f=8
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/forumdisplay.php?s=1e7044962da094f05a3d4476b8f8faa5&f=22
http://www.canadianwoodworking.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?s=d651ec858813ce6e52cc67dd96aebede&f=10


----------



## dfurlano

I wish there was a pen making forum and not necessarily part of this community.  My feeling it that there is very little non-kit work.


----------



## Mudder

> _Originally posted by jeffj13_
> <br />
> With all do respect, I can't help but wonder if pictures of "other" turnings are already being posted, why do we need another forum? [?]



Well,

As it has been said before...It ain't rocket science.

My reasoning is simply this.....If all turnings other than pens were in one forum then those who want to get their panties in a knot will know what forum to ignore.


I just spent the afternoon turning freedom pens and I had a lot of time to reflect on penturning in general. I guess it the majority here want to have a penturning only site and treat all other turnings and turners as inferior then so be it. If the "purity" of the site is in question then I would suggest that everyone go through their photo album and delete every photo that is not a pen. 

It's also been said to me that my sierra video and PDF tutorial should not be here because it only shows my skills with a drill bit and has nothing to do with penturning. Ok, take it down, makes me no nevermind. While were taking down my video how about the ones about bottle stoppers? Although the techniques can be carried across into penturning we're looking for "purity" and although it is turning, it's not PENturning.

I stand behind my earlier "ridiculous statements". Although you try to justify the pen photography forum because you are taking pictures of pens, I'm sorry folks but it's nothing more than a form of macro photography and spoils the "purity" of the site. If the site is in need of "purifying" then Shops, Jigs, Fixtures & Tools, Marketing & Shows, Trades & Giveaways, Group Purchases, and Individual or Business Classifieds all needs to go to regain our "purity". Justify it any way you please but nothing mentioned above is penturning in it's purist form. Lets not forget casual conversation; by it's own definition it is off-topic & general chat and I think it has no place in a "pure" penturning site..

In the end, I'll still post when I have a pen that I think is "some of my best work" or if I have something to say that's pen related. For now I guess I have to find another place to post my "non-pen turnings".


----------



## DCBluesman

> _Originally posted by dubdrvrkev_
> <br />Wait a minute... You've got a bowl in your album Lou. [}][}]



Not any more. [8D]


----------



## gothycdesigns

I'm sure that other members here turn other things besides pens. It would be nice to get feedback from the pros, besides having to look into other sites pertaining to certain types of turning. It would help all involved. If it was designated separately so that others that oppose the addition, they could keep the forum with no changes, but others that want to learn more can choose an additional forum. I think its a good idea. I vote YES.

Thanks,
Gothyc Designs


----------



## beaverfsu

I like having a place just dedicated to pens.  This isn't just a forum to talk about pens too, but rather THE place that has EVERTHING pen related. Lets keep the focus.


----------



## rtjw

> _Originally posted by DCBluesman_
> Now as I have said before, this is your living room.  Host whatever meetings (forums) you want.  But I will predict that there will be a <u>de-focusing on pens</u> in fairly short order.  Once that happens, there will be another <b>Jeff</b> and another <b>Scott</b> who will decide that there's a place in this world for folks who have a tight grip and focus on a hobby...making pens.  Yes, some will want to talk about how to finsh the pens they make, some will want to learn how to photograph the pens they make, others will want to discuss how to market the pens they make.  These people will NOT want to discuss how someone finishes bowls <u>which they do not make</u>.



I dont think it is bad to have another forum for other turnings. The Pen Shop has a forum for other turnings and we are about to go over 1000 members in our first year. I dont think people will leave the IAP just because he adds a forum for other turnings.


----------



## DCBluesman

Other forums are not relevant to my opinion.


----------



## DocStram

Will we also change the name to the "International Assoication of Other Turning Forums"?  

I vote NO! There are tons of woodturning forums out there already.


----------



## dfurlano

I think we should get rid of the "Polls, Surveys, and Votes" forum.  IMHO a forum like that can take over.


----------



## Darley

> _Originally posted by rtjw_
> <br />
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Originally posted by DCBluesman_
> Now as I have said before, this is your living room.  Host whatever meetings (forums) you want.  But I will predict that there will be a <u>de-focusing on pens</u> in fairly short order.  Once that happens, there will be another <b>Jeff</b> and another <b>Scott</b> who will decide that there's a place in this world for folks who have a tight grip and focus on a hobby...making pens.  Yes, some will want to talk about how to finsh the pens they make, some will want to learn how to photograph the pens they make, others will want to discuss how to market the pens they make.  These people will NOT want to discuss how someone finishes bowls <u>which they do not make</u>.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I dont think it is bad to have another forum for other turnings. The Pen Shop has a forum for other turnings and we are about to go over 1000 members in our first year. I dont think people will leave the IAP just because he adds a forum for other turnings.
Click to expand...


Johnny how many of your members are from IAP,YahooPenturners and other association(s) when you doing your your head hunting, I saw a post from you in this site advertising for your site when you just starter

http://tinyurl.com/y2lyrs

Beside other people who vote yes look at this site I just posted and make sure this happen to the IAP ( or what ever it will be call after ) 

To many CHIEFS NOT ENOUGH INDIANS[] 

So now WHO's going to open another REAL PENTURNER Site ???


----------



## chisel

Oh my...you would think the poll was about whether we should remove oxygen from the atmosphere or not. 

I voted yes, but only because there are many other turnings already on the site. Removing them from Casual Conversations will allow people who are interested in such things, the ability to narrow in on them, without sifting through the other stuff. 

It's not that big of a deal to me either way. Gotta love forum drama though. [xx(]


----------



## jimbo 31751

no.


----------



## DocStram

> _Originally posted by chisel_
> <br />Oh my...you would think the poll was about whether we should remove oxygen from the atmosphere or not.
> 
> I voted yes, but only because there are many other turnings already on the site. Removing them from Casual Conversations will allow people who are interested in such things, the ability to narrow in on them, without sifting through the other stuff.
> 
> It's not that big of a deal to me either way. Gotta love forum drama though. [xx(]



Good one, Chisel!  Forum Drama!!


----------



## Ron in Drums PA

> _Originally posted by DCBluesman_
> 
> Generic turning forums:
> http://www.woodturner.org/vbforum/forumdisplay.php?f=2
> http://www.woodturningonline.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=5.
> http://www.woodturningcenter.org/WTCBB/viewforum.php?f=2&sid=63c5ddb97f98f8dbb55ba1d9ac769c6b
> http://www.woodworking.com/dcforum/dcboard.pl?az=list&forum=DCForumID13&conf=DCConfID3
> http://www.forums.woodnet.net/ubbthreads/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=turning
> http://dgroups.woodmagazine.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?webtag=woodturning
> http://www.sawmillcreek.org/forumdisplay.php?s=4a3280b899a43163d1f7127b84202c0d&f=20
> http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/forumdisplay.php?s=1e7044962da094f05a3d4476b8f8faa5&f=8
> http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/forumdisplay.php?s=1e7044962da094f05a3d4476b8f8faa5&f=22
> http://www.canadianwoodworking.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?s=d651ec858813ce6e52cc67dd96aebede&f=10



Sure! show me more sites, thanks buddy![]


----------



## ctEaglesc

> _Originally posted by Ron in Drums PA_
> <br />
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Originally posted by DCBluesman_
> 
> Generic turning forums:
> http://www.woodturner.org/vbforum/forumdisplay.php?f=2
> http://www.woodturningonline.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=5.
> http://www.woodturningcenter.org/WTCBB/viewforum.php?f=2&sid=63c5ddb97f98f8dbb55ba1d9ac769c6b
> http://www.woodworking.com/dcforum/dcboard.pl?az=list&forum=DCForumID13&conf=DCConfID3
> http://www.forums.woodnet.net/ubbthreads/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=turning
> http://dgroups.woodmagazine.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?webtag=woodturning
> http://www.sawmillcreek.org/forumdisplay.php?s=4a3280b899a43163d1f7127b84202c0d&f=20
> http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/forumdisplay.php?s=1e7044962da094f05a3d4476b8f8faa5&f=8
> http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/forumdisplay.php?s=1e7044962da094f05a3d4476b8f8faa5&f=22
> http://www.canadianwoodworking.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?s=d651ec858813ce6e52cc67dd96aebede&f=10
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure! show me more sites, thanks buddy![]
Click to expand...


One Lou missed[]


----------



## Jerryconn

As I said earlier, I voted no, but I agree with Lou, this is Jeff's site, I appreciate his willingness to accept input, I am also very interested in and make bottle stoppers, and maybe down the road a little, some of those christmas ornaments someone recently posted.  I love this site because I love making pens. I like the fact that this site is, for all pratical purposes a "one stop for all things pens" well except for maybe fountain pens, including tools, lathes, finishes, stabilizing, casting, pen cases, refills, etc, etc, etc. I don't mind the way things are now, such as, when yoyo spin posts a bottle stopper, I go look.  I just don't want the see the art of turning and making pens from any type of material, lost amoung the rest of the postings.


----------



## rgundersen

Well I only read one page of posts on this thread and looking at the otes right now there are a lot more votes on the yes side, but I go with the no personally.

It is a penturners site and there is a forum section in casual conversation to ask those here about general non pen turning content.  If that is about turning bowls, or the current phase of the moon fine whatever, hence casual conversation.


----------



## jeff

I got an email this morning suggesting that had I started the poll after all this discussion, that the results might be different. I've also received several emails saying that had the voter seen all the discussion prior to voting, their vote would have been different.

It does make sense to get all the issues out on the table prior to voting. We have a lot of members who don't know the history of the IAP, and this discussion probably exposed some of the reasons why we're here in the first place.

So, I'm considering closing this poll and running a new one. Any comments on that?

THANKS!


----------



## Ron in Drums PA

Jeff, was it Al Gore who sent you the email? [][][]
Sounds like a hanging chad issue to me.

Personally, I think we should have at least 3 polls for each decision.... Just to make sure.... you know what I mean...


----------



## JTaylor801

I don't understand what closing this poll and creating a new one will accomplish.  I think you'll still receive discussion against and discussion for.  While the voting results lean towards "Yes", and I haven't read every message in this thread...I can say the discussion certainly leans more towards No.  

If you think that members voted Yes prior to really understanding the background of IAP etc. then just don't create the new "Other Turnings" Forum.  

However, it's just 1's and 0's.

Jerry


----------



## DCBluesman

If you are going to run a new poll, may I add a third option.  I've been trying to make the option more inclusive of all members, rather than a contest between members.  What if we create a forum called "Other Things We Make"?  That could include turnings, flatwork, scrollsaw work, rings, fishing rods, game calls, etc.  Also, by calling it "Other Things WE Make" it remains perfectly clear that this is a group of pen makers (primarily) who happen to have numerous talents.  Just a thought.[8D]


----------



## DocStram

> _Originally posted by jeff_
> <br />I got an email this morning suggesting that had I started the poll after all this discussion, that the results might be different. I've also received several emails saying that had the voter seen all the discussion prior to voting, their vote would have been different.
> 
> It does make sense to get all the issues out on the table prior to voting. We have a lot of members who don't know the history of the IAP, and this discussion probably exposed some of the reasons why we're here in the first place.
> 
> So, I'm considering closing this poll and running a new one. Any comments on that?
> 
> THANKS!



I "vote" for a new poll ... for a couple of reasons.  One, being that I my no vote didn't seem to register in the poll count. (I've already contacted the Attorney General's Office about the voting irregularity)

But, more importantly, so many of the comments seem to be opposed to adding other turning forums, yet there is a majority vote for yes.  Something seems incongruent.


----------



## Dario

> _Originally posted by JTaylor801_
> <br />I don't understand what closing this poll and creating a new one will accomplish.  I think you'll still receive discussion against and discussion for.  <b>While the voting results lean towards "Yes", and I haven't read every message in this thread...I can say the discussion certainly leans more towards No</b>.
> 
> If you think that members voted Yes prior to really understanding the background of IAP etc. then just don't create the new "Other Turnings" Forum.
> 
> However, it's just 1's and 0's.
> 
> Jerry



Jerry,

And how did you come to this conclusion?[?][?][?]

Some of us vote then leave it at that...others will insist that only their way is the way and they fight with claws and teeth.  If the silent majority decided that...stay silent after casting their vote...PLEASE DO NOT interpret it any other way for them.


----------



## Mudder

> _Originally posted by DCBluesman_
> <br />If you are going to run a new poll, may I add a third option.  I've been trying to make the option more inclusive of all members, rather than a contest between members.  What if we create a forum called "Other Things We Make"?  That could include turnings, flatwork, scrollsaw work, rings, fishing rods, game calls, etc.  Also, by calling it "Other Things WE Make" it remains perfectly clear that this is a group of pen makers (primarily) who happen to have numerous talents.  Just a thought.[8D]



I think this is a great idea and hope that Jeff will consider it.


----------



## Dario

> _Originally posted by Mudder_
> <br />
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Originally posted by DCBluesman_
> <br />If you are going to run a new poll, may I add a third option.  I've been trying to make the option more inclusive of all members, rather than a contest between members.  What if we create a forum called "Other Things We Make"?  That could include turnings, flatwork, scrollsaw work, rings, fishing rods, game calls, etc.  Also, by calling it "Other Things WE Make" it remains perfectly clear that this is a group of pen makers (primarily) who happen to have numerous talents.  Just a thought.[8D]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think this is a great idea and hope that Jeff will consider it.
Click to expand...


This might dilute and confuse the votes.

If we do this...will a vote for it also count as a vote for "Other Turnings" when a decision comes down to have one or not?

Say...

NO = 200
Yes to Other turnings = 150
Yes to Other things we make = 100

Which one wins?  For me it is "Other Turnings" but then again that is only how I see it.


----------



## jeff

Dario - I think "NO" wins in your example. What am I missing?

So I guess a poll might be:

1 - No new forum
2 - Other Turnings forum
3 - Other Things We Make forum

I kind of like Lou's suggestion... 

(1) it encompasses other turnings.
(2) it defuses the argument "if we're going to have other turnings, why not flatwork, etc."
(3) it doesn't dilute the mission statement by focusing on other lathe work, distracting us from penturning.
(4) it might encourage posting of all kinds of interesting stuff. We have some extremely talented furniture makers in our midst and I'd enjoy seeing their work.

Keep discussing...


----------



## Dario

Jeff,

Exactly my point...it will split the votes that otherwise will be for Other Turnings should the other was not introduced.


----------



## Dario

Would you think it is fair for 2 democrats to run against 1 republican on a presidential election? (or vice versa 2 republican to 1 democrat to be politically correct)

Hope I am driving my point.


----------



## Ron in Drums PA

With all due respect Jeff

You are the CEO of Penturners
If you feel another forum will help this site grow, then do it.
If you feel another forum will hurt this site then, don't do it.

If you try it and it doesn't work out,  then delete the new forum.

But you will never know how it will work out unless you try it.

All the polls in the world won't change the outcome.


----------



## JTaylor801

> _Originally posted by Dario_
> <br />
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Originally posted by JTaylor801_
> <br />I don't understand what closing this poll and creating a new one will accomplish.  I think you'll still receive discussion against and discussion for.  <b>While the voting results lean towards "Yes", and I haven't read every message in this thread...I can say the discussion certainly leans more towards No</b>.
> 
> If you think that members voted Yes prior to really understanding the background of IAP etc. then just don't create the new "Other Turnings" Forum.
> 
> However, it's just 1's and 0's.
> 
> Jerry
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jerry,
> 
> And how did you come to this conclusion?[?][?][?]
> 
> Some of us vote then leave it at that...others will insist that only their way is the way and they fight with claws and teeth.  If the silent majority decided that...stay silent after casting their vote...PLEASE DO NOT interpret it any other way for them.
Click to expand...


I said I didn't read every single message in this thread.  However, I did read several from members who seemed very passionate about keeping site the way it is.  I also read a few that said they voted yes and stated they wish they could change their vote.

I personally don't give a hoot which way it goes.  I can choose to read or ignore whatever content I want.  At the end of the day, it's either going to happen...or it's not.  I personally won't lose sleep either way.  []


----------



## ed4copies

> _Originally posted by jeff_
> <br />Dario - I think "NO" wins in your example. What am I missing?
> 
> So I guess a poll might be:
> 
> 1 - No new forum
> 2 - Other Turnings forum
> 3 - Other Things We Make forum
> 
> I kind of like Lou's suggestion...
> 
> (1) it encompasses other turnings.
> (2) it defuses the argument "if we're going to have other turnings, why not flatwork, etc."
> (3) it doesn't dilute the mission statement by focusing on other lathe work, distracting us from penturning.
> (4) it might encourage posting of all kinds of interesting stuff. We have some extremely talented furniture makers in our midst and I'd enjoy seeing their work.
> Keep discussing...



That, oh great leader, seems to be THAT!!

If YOU would enjoy it, and it's YOUR house, then TRY it.

Always reserve the right to change your opinion if things go south with it!!!

BTW, I don't do a lot of interesting things, so my posting pics will STILL be VERY limited.  I DO enjoy seeing the talents my friends here have exhibited.  

And, for the last several months, this is the ONLY wood-related site I visit.  So, feel free to expand my horizons without making me "surf" a bunch of other sites.[8D][8D]


----------



## kenwc

I agree with putting the debate prior to the vote. In hindsight this would have been better.  I for one agree to just keep this simple.  If you are going to base the decision on the "vote" then creat a new poll...lock out all the passionate responses and go with the vote. Simple..


----------



## Mudder

> _Originally posted by Dario_
> <br />Would you think it is fair for 2 democrats to run against 1 republican on a presidential election? (or vice versa 2 republican to 1 democrat to be politically correct)
> 
> Hope I am driving my point.



Not too well.

It happened in Connecticut just the other day. (Although it was not a presidential race)

A Democrat was defeated in the primary so he created his own party and petitioned to get on the ballot; Guess what? HE WON!

I think that Robin Williams said it best in the movie. "Polititions are like diapers, they should be changed often and for the same reason."  


My yes vote was for one simple reason..... The stuff is already posted on the site so even if a new sub forum is voted down youâ€™re really not changing anything. I simply thought it there was a sub-forum just for the other things we do, be it bottlestoppers, furniture, flatwork or whatever it would be in its own sub-forum and not in casual conversation. It would make the site a little cleaner IMHO and would not detract from the main focus of the site which is making pens & pencils.


----------



## ctEaglesc

Wouldn't it be best to have a poll to see if there should be a new poll?


----------



## gerryr

> _Originally posted by ctEaglesc_
> <br />Wouldn't it be best to have a poll to see if there should be a new poll?



Actually, I think there should be a committee to investigate if there should be a poll to determine if there should be a new poll.[]

But, I like Lou's idea.


----------



## DocStram

> _Originally posted by Ron in Drums PA_
> <br />With all due respect Jeff
> 
> You are the CEO of Penturners
> If you feel another forum will help this site grow, then do it.
> If you feel another forum will hurt this site then, don't do it.
> 
> If you try it and it doesn't work out,  then delete the new forum.
> 
> But you will never know how it will work out unless you try it.
> 
> All the polls in the world won't change the outcome.



I agree with Ron.  Sometimes, nothing is ever easy. I encourage Jeff to just make a decision and do it.  We're just using negative energy with another prolonged discussion.


----------



## Penmonkey

These kind of debates are such a waste of time and bandwidth.
This is the IAP, let us act accordingly.


----------



## ilikewood

Jeff, did you lose your job or something like that?  Let me get this straight...you WANT to start another forum where you have to do MORE babysitting from whiners like me? []


----------



## jeff

> _Originally posted by ilikewood_
> <br />Jeff, did you lose your job or something like that?  Let me get this straight...you WANT to start another forum where you have to do MORE babysitting from whiners like me? []


Not me! I'll appoint a new babysitter []


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## dfurlano

What if its something we didn't actually make?


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## Chuck Key

The results of this poll seems quite decisive with a consistent ratio of almost two to one in favor of a new forum.  Throw out the least popular choice based on the vote then poll again based on the new suggestion.

The choice would be:

Other Turnings forum 
or
Other projects or interestes forum

Chuckie


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## Ron Mc

Jeff,
I think it would be a good idea to have the same poll over again. Let's face it....It's hard to make an educated vote without reading all of the pros and cons first.


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## Mudder

> _Originally posted by jeff_
> <br />
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Originally posted by ilikewood_
> <br />Jeff, did you lose your job or something like that?  Let me get this straight...you WANT to start another forum where you have to do MORE babysitting from whiners like me? []
> 
> 
> 
> Not me! I'll appoint a new babysitter []
Click to expand...


I'll babysit for ya chief. []


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## ctEaglesc

> _Originally posted by DCBluesman_
> <br />If you are going to run a new poll, may I add a third option.  I've been trying to make the option more inclusive of all members, rather than a contest between members.  What if we create a forum called "Other Things We Make"?  That could include turnings, flatwork, scrollsaw work, rings, fishing rods, game calls, etc.  Also, by calling it "Other Things WE Make" it remains perfectly clear that this is a group of pen makers (primarily) who happen to have numerous talents.  Just a thought.[8D]


Kind of like a members gallery of non pen related projects?
HMMMM where did I think of that before?


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## rtjw

<br />

Oh, Jeff, Can you get better smiley's? Or is this something I need to post in the ideas poll?


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## johnnycnc

rtjw,dang it,I laughed so hard
my gut hurts now.dangit![]


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## jaywood1207

> _Originally posted by DCBluesman_
> <br />If you are going to run a new poll, may I add a third option.  I've been trying to make the option more inclusive of all members, rather than a contest between members.  What if we create a forum called "Other Things We Make"?  That could include turnings, flatwork, scrollsaw work, rings, fishing rods, game calls, etc.  Also, by calling it "Other Things WE Make" it remains perfectly clear that this is a group of pen makers (primarily) who happen to have numerous talents.  Just a thought.[8D]



I haven't been around as long as a lot of you but this post seems to hit the nail on the head in my opinion.  A lot of the longer term members are afraid of new members and change.  A lot of the responses to topics in IAP in general seem to be based on who posted the topic and not the content of the post.

I voted yes and if another poll is started again I will still vote yes.  If you don't want the forum then don't look at it if it is introduced.  I think there is enough history here that it will remain a website based on penturning and will not be taken over by other turnings because of a forum that is added.  

You would think that there is a huge crowd of turners that don't do pens standing at the door waiting to run in and take over as soon as the other turnings forum is added if it is added the way some of you are responding.


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## jeff

Someone already suggested better smiles. I'll get to it. It's #43 on the fixes, improvements, and stuff-to-do list.


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## Daniel

I voted no as well. and feel as atrogly about it as others that have posted here. within the turning world. penturning is struggling to shed the image that it is a minor indevor. only for those that don't really turn wood. on other turning groups I have visited, pens get a polite brush off over interest in (see Lous list above)
to introduce such work to this group directly could very well cast it's primary pourpose into the background.


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## Darley

> _Originally posted by jaywood1207_
> <br />
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Originally posted by DCBluesman_
> <br />If you are going to run a new poll, may I add a third option.  I've been trying to make the option more inclusive of all members, rather than a contest between members.  What if we create a forum called "Other Things We Make"?  That could include turnings, flatwork, scrollsaw work, rings, fishing rods, game calls, etc.  Also, by calling it "Other Things WE Make" it remains perfectly clear that this is a group of pen makers (primarily) who happen to have numerous talents.  Just a thought.[8D]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't been around as long as a lot of you but this post seems to hit the nail on the head in my opinion.  A lot of the longer term members are afraid of new members and change.  A lot of the responses to topics in IAP in general seem to be based on who posted the topic and not the content of the post.
> 
> I voted yes and if another poll is started again I will still vote yes.  If you don't want the forum then don't look at it if it is introduced.  I think there is enough history here that it will remain a website based on penturning and will not be taken over by other turnings because of a forum that is added.
> 
> You would think that there is a huge crowd of turners that don't do pens standing at the door waiting to run in and take over as soon as the other turnings forum is added if it is added the way some of you are responding.
Click to expand...


I'm not afraid of you, but if you go the the butcher shop to buy milk and bread sure you will find it [}][]. But like Lou say and other members is Jeff site, he run it as is please and to please you ( I mean all the YES) 

What I see is less true penturners post here with photos and technic(s)

BTW jaywood1207 you go to the YahooPenturner and ask Richard if you can post your other turning on is site, I think you will have a strait and quick answer, same, do ask Ed Davison who give a lot of is knowledge here ( because we ask him and was kind enought to do it, thanks Ed for this ) ask him if you can show your other turning in is bottle stopper site, you will have the same answer, I think Jeff getting too softty because of all of you ( the Yes ) and forgot about is rules and by laws


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## emackrell

Oh come on folks.  We're turning pens, not calling in airstrikes.  No one lives or dies by our posts. Don't take it so seriously.

Put another forum for "Other things we make" on the site and give it a six month trial.  That should give us enough time to tell whether it's worth doing or not.   

Hooah  Eileen  [8D]


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## Dario

What does Nike say???

JUST DO IT!!!

(Dario runs for cover) [][}]


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## Ron in Drums PA

> _Originally posted by Dario_
> <br />JUST DO IT!!!




JUST DO IT!!!!!!!


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## ctEaglesc

> _Originally posted by Ron in Drums PA_
> <br />
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Originally posted by Dario_
> <br />JUST DO IT!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JUST DO IT!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

I agree DO IT.
Keep it a <b>PENTURNING SITE!</b>
The results of the poll are very misleading.
The reasoning FOR  starting a new forum seems to be<b>"JUST BECAUSE"</b>
The reasons against it are based in <b>logic </b>and the <b>mission statement of this site.</b>

[Let the bowl turners post their work on sites where they can compete against BOWL TURNERS for accolades.People who have the knowledge and expertise to make intellegent comments about their work.
There they will be a little fish in a big sea.
I view this request as a group of people want attaboys from those who know little about their craft.
The SOYP has turned into a "Sunshine up your dress forum" and "look what I did today!" rather than show us your best work! We don't need a forum to impress us mere penturners.
Members profiles  can include links to cool sites that should be enough.


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## Dario

> _Originally posted by ctEaglesc_
> Let the bowl turners post their work on sites where they can compete against BOWL TURNERS for accolades.People who have the knowledge and expertise to make intellegent comments about their work.
> There they will be a little fish in a big sea.
> I view this request as a group of people want attaboys from those who know little about their craft.
> The SOYP has turned into a "Sunshine up your dress forum" and "look what I did today!" rather than show us your best work! We don't need a forum to impress us mere penturners.



Eagles,

I am really surprised that this keeps coming up.  Who is competing with whom?

Who looked down on you that you keep on insisting the bowl turners have the "attitude" or star syndrome?  Your work were highy regarded and admired on several forums and you know that.  If there were problems there, I assure you it wasn't your work/talent.

I don't want to say it but there were posts where (I think) some penturners looked down (in effect) on CNC operators.  This separatist attitude stinks!

I wish we can just share, look and admire each others work/talents.

(Dario...walks away sad [V])


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## ctEaglesc

Dario-
I did not create the separatist attitude.
Look at any turning site and count the posts and comments about Bowls versus pens.
Look at views versus responses.
That attitude was there long before I stated posting on any of them.
As far as CNC operators.Well yes they fit here if the product is a pen but by the nature of the tool they use it really desrves its' own forum.
What doyou say Jeff how about a forum for CNC operators also?
That would make more sense since they make pens.
THIS is a penturning site in case anyone has forgotten.
It was when I walked in the door.


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## Dario

Eagles,

I admire your work and most of us do.  I hardly post on your posted work (as well as others) now but that doesn't mean I feel less about them.  

It is just tiring to say WOW, AWESOME, etc. all the time  LOL.

Just know that <b>even in silence your work is admired</b>.[^]


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## sandking

Being new, please don't beat me up too bad.  Are there bottle stopper forums?  I noticed some info on this site, does that mean pens and bottle stoppers are ok?  I would like more info on bottle stoppers, any guidance on a forum for that would be helpful.[]


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## ilikewood

Yup, one over at Yahoo groups for bottlestoppers.


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## penhead

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stopper/





> _Originally posted by sandking_
> <br />Being new, please don't beat me up too bad.  Are there bottle stopper forums?  I noticed some info on this site, does that mean pens and bottle stoppers are ok?  I would like more info on bottle stoppers, any guidance on a forum for that would be helpful.[]


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## brokenbit

I vote No


Bernie


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## BigRob777

Wow, there is much passion here.  I answered yes, but I do understand how some feel.  I hate to disagree with my mentor/sensei, but this is penturners, not pens.  Penturners are often interested in other turning and I've enjoyed a lot of pics of bowls turned by others.  On the other hand, the line does have to be drawn somewhere.  

I'm a member of both my local and the association of woodturners, but I don't go to their site.  This is my home and I like to be able to see other turnings.  I also love flatwork, but does that mean that we should open a flatworkers' page?  I wish I could remove my yes vote, but what's done is done.  I guess that means that I'm not really disagreeing with Lou, but it's more of a line issue, than a subject issue.

BTW, as a member of my local AAW, I'm never made to feel like a RHSChild.  When I have a question about stoppers, I do go to the stopper forum, but I could never replace the family feel this place has, nor the awesome format of the site.
Rob

Rob


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## jeff

Thanks for voting and for the good discussion. Using a suggestion from a post in this topic, I'm going to create a forum called "Other Things We Make" in which we can post photos of our other turnings such as stoppers, bowls, platters, etc., and flatwork, scrollsaw work, etc. -- pretty much any other woodworking effort. 

I hope this gives us a place to show off all the other non-pen things we enjoy creating. If after 6 months the forum has extremely low activity , or for some reason detracts from the primary focus of the site, I'll consider closing it down.


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## Ron in Drums PA

Thanks Jeff


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## wdcav1952

Sounds like a good decision to me, Jeff.


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## ctEaglesc

I like the idea but before you write the explanation does that mean that say bottle stoppers made out of acrylics don't qualify?
(Not that I intend to A. Make a bottle stopper and B.If I was to make said bottle stopper I wouldn't make it out of acrylic.
(Has anyone invented a denim bottle stopper yet?)[]
O.K. would a botttle stopper made out of denim and CA qualify?(That is IF I was to make a bottle stopper)


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## rtjw




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## herper62

I like the idea as long as its a secondary area and does not take over from the pens. things learnwed from other items may be applied to pens and it would be a good area to list them. just a newbies two cents
Herper


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