# Emperor and Jr Emperor discontinued!?!?



## babyblues (Nov 2, 2009)

I just spoke with a customer service representative at CSUSA and they informed me that the Emperor and Jr Emperor pens have both been discontinued.  How disappointing.  All they knew was that it just wasn't a big seller.  They still have several hundred Emperors in stock, but most of the Jr Emperors are out.

This really sucks because I have a big opportunity to sell these pens on a regular basis.  If enough people complain, maybe they'll change their mind.  Or if enough people are interested, it might be worth revisiting the possibility of a group buy right from Daycom.  Disappointing.


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## ed4copies (Nov 2, 2009)

Gee, no market for a $50 "kit pen"???

If they reintroduce it at $20, they may find a different result.


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## Daniel (Nov 2, 2009)

At least for the moment any revisit to a Dayacom Group buy woudl result in what every other visit to it discovered.
1. the Emperor is exclusive to CSUSA. it cannot be sold to anyone else.
2. Even if it could be sold to other (Which it may very well become) it will not be sold to anyone but Licensed businesses. Even then min orders are in the hundreds for any one kit. No mix and match for plating etc.
3. More than one person has tried to ask about being able to order kits from Dayacom, they will get one e-mail saying that Daycom only sells to suppliers, any other inquiries are then ignored. 

In short, Daycam never has been and most likely never will be a source for group buys. Sad I know but true.


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## Texatdurango (Nov 2, 2009)

Daniel said:


> At least for the moment any revisit to a Dayacom Group buy woudl result in what every other visit to it discovered.
> 1. the Emperor is exclusive to CSUSA. it cannot be sold to anyone else.
> 2. Even if it could be sold to other (Which it may very well become) it will not be sold to anyone but Licensed businesses. Even then min orders are in the hundreds for any one kit. No mix and match for plating etc.
> 3. More than one person has tried to ask about being able to order kits from Dayacom, they will get one e-mail saying that Daycom only sells to suppliers, any other inquiries are then ignored.
> ...


 
If they discontinued it, how could it still be exclusive to them?


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## ed4copies (Nov 2, 2009)

They COULD own the design patent, as I understand it, it would protect the design from copying for a period of time.


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## Texatdurango (Nov 2, 2009)

babyblues said:


> I just spoke with a customer service representative at CSUSA and they informed me that the Emperor and Jr Emperor pens have both been discontinued. How disappointing. All they knew was that it just wasn't a big seller. They still have several hundred Emperors in stock, but most of the Jr Emperors are out.
> 
> This really sucks because I have a big opportunity to sell these pens on a regular basis. If enough people complain, maybe they'll change their mind. Or if enough people are interested, it might be worth revisiting the possibility of a group buy right from Daycom. Disappointing.


 
Not a big seller... heck they are my biggest seller!   While they retail at $40 to $56, I always buy mine in group buys at $30 to $42 like everyone I know so the price is reasonable since the pens easily sell from $150 up.

I have already given up on the Jr series of gents and statesman kits because I'm tired of messing with the haphazard quality control of the ill fitted clips, having to grind 1 out of 5 clips so they will fit the caps.

Keep it up Craft Supply, from $3k a year to $0, soon I will have no reason to visit your site at all!


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## RDH79 (Nov 2, 2009)

That figures I bought the bushings and a couple kits about a month ago. Should get more kits but dont really want to pay the full price. Any group buys soon??


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## ed4copies (Nov 2, 2009)

George, 

Just buy out their remaining inventory.  I would, if I liked the pen, but I think it's overpriced--even at $30.


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## jimbob91577 (Nov 2, 2009)

*On another note...*

...the new gold and silver variations of the Cambridge look pretty nice and at $30-34 a kit from Ernie at Bear Tooth Woods and Berea - they might be a viable alternative.


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## sbell111 (Nov 2, 2009)

Texatdurango said:


> ... I have already given up on the Jr series of gents and statesman kits because I'm tired of messing with the haphazard quality control of the ill fitted clips, having to grind 1 out of 5 clips so they will fit the caps.


Heck, that's just part of my normal Jr Gent assembly process.  It may as well be printed on their instruction page.


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## Grizz (Nov 2, 2009)

If they sold and made money.  They wouldn't be discontinued.  Obviously there are only a handful of penturners who really can sell these at a decent profit.  Lower the price down there with the gents... and they won't be able to keep them in stock.:usflag:


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## hilltopper46 (Nov 2, 2009)

Maybe they are coming out with another pen in a similar style and price range and don't want two in that category.


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## babyblues (Nov 2, 2009)

Texatdurango said:


> Not a big seller... heck they are my biggest seller!   While they retail at $40 to $56, I always buy mine in group buys at $30 to $42 like everyone I know so the price is reasonable since the pens easily sell from $150 up.
> 
> I have already given up on the Jr series of gents and statesman kits because I'm tired of messing with the haphazard quality control of the ill fitted clips, having to grind 1 out of 5 clips so they will fit the caps.
> 
> Keep it up Craft Supply, from $3k a year to $0, soon I will have no reason to visit your site at all!



Yeah, this guy is willing to pay over $300 apiece with gold nibs and will be selling them from his jewelry store for a LOT more.  He's a pen guy with a marketing degree from Harvard and he knows his stuff, so if he thinks he can do it, I'm all for it....or I was until I learned I can't get the dang parts anymore.  We'll have to rethink this, but I'm not quitting on this guy.


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## OKLAHOMAN (Nov 2, 2009)

Well, its time to change my marketing strategy. I still have a few kits left.....They sold well for me as limited editions..


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## Rmartin (Nov 2, 2009)

ed4copies said:


> George,
> 
> Just buy out their remaining inventory. I would, if I liked the pen, but I think it's overpriced--even at $30.


 
Hey Ed, what is your favorite high end kit?


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## Texatdurango (Nov 2, 2009)

ed4copies said:


> George,
> 
> Just buy out their remaining inventory. I would, if I liked the pen, but I think it's overpriced--even at $30.


 
I won't argue that they are overpriced... as most kits are, but all things relative, I enjoy making them, they sell well and I like my profit margin.  I am certainly going to grab my share! :biggrin:  

It's not that I'm in love with the kit itself but I actually have steady customers who buy my emperors when I make one with a new blank.  I thought I would mix things up a bit and offer some Imperials and while I have sold several, the "regulars" don't want them and prefer to stay with emperors.  Go figure!


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## Daniel (Nov 2, 2009)

I have one of each of the Emperor Pens for my collection, but I think those are the only ones I have ever made. i have never really tried to sell them either. What bothers me about discontinued pens is if I have not gotten one for my collection yet and don't have the money to get them before they close out. CSUSA seems to be the worst about continually turning over what they offer. It may simply be that the Emperor pens number came up. It could be that the money they have invested in them could make a better profit elsewhere. Not all products have to be an outright looser to be cut, they just have to be one of the lowest performers.


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## Texatdurango (Nov 2, 2009)

An interesting thing, at least to me.... I just visited the Craft Supply web site to see if they were close out priced yet and they weren't.  I looked to see if they still had Lotus brass and noticed that they have the Lotus fountain kits back in stock!  They were sold out last week!

Now would be a good time to grab some Lotus kits if you missed out last week.


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## PenWorks (Nov 2, 2009)

I won't miss either kit Emp or Lotus. I would never have thought I would say this, but I think Penn State Majestic for the money is a good large kit replacement. They have also been coming out with different kits lately. Some good some bad, but at least they seem to be trying differnet things. CSU has not really come out with anything new lately. Also PSI has seemed to raise their level of service a bit, not much, but at least it is trending in the right direction. I have been at able to order from them more without blowing a gasket.


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## babyblues (Nov 2, 2009)

On the website, the Jr Emperor fountain kits with gold accents are out of stock and when I asked about it, I was told that they had discontinued both the Jr Emperor and the full size Emperor.  It doesn't say anything about that on the website, but I'm trusting the person I talked to.  What doesn't make any sense to me is that the Imperial hasn't been discontinued but is more expensive than the Emperor.  Maybe they just don't have to make a decision about restocking that kit any time soon.

The aggravating thing is that the Emperor kits are still being made, there's just no way for us to get them if a wholesaler isn't willing to distribute them in the US.  And since CSUSA had exclusive rights to distribute them in the US, distributors in the rest of the world aren't allowed to sell to US customers.  I wonder if that will change now.  I'd pay to have them shipped from Australia if I have a legitimate opportunity to sell Emperors for $300 a pop.


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## PenWorks (Nov 2, 2009)

Assuming minimum order for them is $15,000,  I can not imagine to many distibutors stocking a slow moving kit. JMO


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## mick (Nov 3, 2009)

OKLAHOMAN said:


> Well, its time to change my marketing strategy. I still have a few kits left.....They sold well for me as limited editions..


 
I guess they all just became "Limited editions" :biggrin:


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## Rifleman1776 (Nov 3, 2009)

Texatdurango said:


> I won't argue that they are overpriced... as most kits are, but all things relative, I enjoy making them, they sell well and I like my profit margin.  I am certainly going to grab my share! :biggrin:
> 
> It's not that I'm in love with the kit itself but I actually have steady customers who buy my emperors when I make one with a new blank.  I thought I would mix things up a bit and offer some Imperials and while I have sold several, the "regulars" don't want them and prefer to stay with emperors.  Go figure!



George, you must be in a very unique market. I congratulate you for selling high end pens so well. My market goes into cramps when they see a price tag over $20.00. My pens are sold in another location and sales are, well.....OK....but not brisk. Best are in the $50.00 to $85.00 range. The Emp kits were grossly overpriced, no doubt. I have always preferred the Gents and Jr. Gents. But, business being what it is, if there is a need for a luxury high end pen kit, someone will introduce a new one.


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## Russianwolf (Nov 3, 2009)

babyblues said:


> The aggravating thing is that the Emperor kits are still being made, there's just no way for us to get them if a wholesaler isn't willing to distribute them in the US.  And since CSUSA had exclusive rights to distribute them in the US, distributors in the rest of the world aren't allowed to sell to US customers.  I wonder if that will change now.  I'd pay to have them shipped from Australia if I have a legitimate opportunity to sell Emperors for $300 a pop.



Where there's a will (or a buck to be made) there's a way. I'm willing to bet that one of our Aussie members would be willing to drop ship them to you if you need to order some. It'll mean paying a bit more to ship since it has to ship locally in Australia, then internationally to you, but it isn't hard to find friends around here.

Now, I sold 2 Jr. Emps last week at $350 a piece and that was a discounted price. I have 1 on my site that I haven't even put a price on yet, but expect $300-400 on it as well.


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## diamundgem (Nov 3, 2009)

I bought a lot of the Lotis pens when they discontinued them, what now the Emperiors. That's my best seller. They could offer them cheaper, then maybe they would sell.Looks like the manufacture would reduce the price. If csusa is the only seller then the manufacture will have to quit making the pen.  I agree about the Gent 2. I had to carve out the clip on the last ones I did but that's pretty routine on lots of the kit today. Quality control is poor


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## ed4copies (Nov 3, 2009)

*Not in a "high end" market*



Rmartin said:


> Hey Ed, what is your favorite high end kit?



Richard,

I REALLY LIKE the Jr. Gent, Jr. Statesman option.  The Jr Statesman is not FULL of bling, but it is nicely appointed with gold.  AND, I don't have to decide WHICH pen it will be until after the pen is completely turned and finished.  THIS is the main draw, for me.

IF CSUSA were to add "emperor" bling, as a third option on the same tubes........................  That could be a winner.

HOWEVER, I have maybe ten emperors and Majestics that I show.  Have sold a couple, but not one in ten, compared to jr statesman, which are not one in ten compared to Jr. gents.  So, my real point is, the market is so small for these gaudy pens that it is not surprising they get discontinued.

Of course, when they are selling a "kit" with 5 pieces and a refill,  they SHOULD be making about 80% on each kit.  With that ROI, they should expect to sit on inventory.  In today's economy, however, their bank may not see it that way.

Lots of things they need to consider-----that part I do understand!!


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## Daniel (Nov 3, 2009)

On a similar issue, CSUSA Discontinued the Havana. a short time later the same pen design was available from several other sources under different names.


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## BigguyZ (Nov 3, 2009)

I hope the emperor doesn't go bye bye completely...  I think the Majestic is nice, but the crystal is waaaaay too cheesy for everyone who's seen it.  If it didn't have that, it'd be a winner.  I thought the Emperor was ornate, but not over the top like the Majestic.

I might pick one up to keep for myself...  But they're too expensive to buy more than one.


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## babyblues (Nov 3, 2009)

I'd be willing to bet that one of the smaller pen suppliers that carry Dayacom kits in the US will pick up the Emperor.  Where CSUSA might be under more pressure to generate a higher percentage of profit, a smaller business might be willing to augment their business even with whatever profit they can get.  Maybe if enough of us start asking questions and showing interest, we might see something like that happen.


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## ed4copies (Nov 3, 2009)

Assume Dayacom will make 500.

Assume they WILL sell them to the USA, at $20 each

Tying up $10000.  

Put a second mortgage on your house and go for it.  At about 8% interest, you will pay only $70 a month in interest.

This is no joke, this IS the math.

Oh, if you fail you COULD lose your house.


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## ed4copies (Nov 3, 2009)

Oh, and I forgot freight.  But what's another $500 bucks or so.


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## Rmartin (Nov 3, 2009)

ed4copies said:


> Richard,
> 
> I REALLY LIKE the Jr. Gent, Jr. Statesman option. The Jr Statesman is not FULL of bling, but it is nicely appointed with gold. AND, I don't have to decide WHICH pen it will be until after the pen is completely turned and finished. THIS is the main draw, for me.
> 
> IF CSUSA were to add "emperor" bling, as a third option on the same tubes........................ That could be a winner.


 
Yes, the Jr. Gent is one of my favorite platforms. I haven't tried the Statesman, but I do like the idea of interchangable tubes and bushings.


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## randyrls (Nov 3, 2009)

Daniel said:


> On a similar issue, CSUSA Discontinued the Havana. a short time later the same pen design was available from several other sources under different names.



Daniel;  It may well be that the supplier jacked up the price so far that CS didn't or couldn't pay the increase and maintain a profit margin.  It would not be the first time that a supplier hijacked a distributor.


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## sbell111 (Nov 4, 2009)

It's also possible that they merely have a slow supplier issue combined with someone on the phone who did not have correct info.


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## george (Nov 4, 2009)

They have just sent me an email and confirm this ... however, there are still some kits on stock. Buy quick if you need it.


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## bitshird (Nov 4, 2009)

I'm saddened they dropped the Emperors, Jr Emperors and Lotus, The lotus I have on display has sold a lot of 40 to 50 dollar pens, my personal Jr emperor has sold several custom orders for IBO pens, I think the Majestic soul look great if they would loose that Pimp stone, it looks trashy to me. I hadn't thought much about the Cambridge, since it's a El Grande Re do, but it's looking better, and it has a nice grip, which to me was lacking on the Jr Emperors, I might even try a Neuveau Scepter.


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## hewunch (Nov 6, 2009)

I just checked CSUSA and all the Emps and Jr. Emps are in stock


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## Daniel (Nov 6, 2009)

randyrls said:


> Daniel;  It may well be that the supplier jacked up the price so far that CS didn't or couldn't pay the increase and maintain a profit margin.  It would not be the first time that a supplier hijacked a distributor.


I am not certain but I think that the Havana was also a CSUSA Exclusive up to the time they discontinued it. Now I don't know how the contract was written or anything. But it would make since to me that if a manufacturer and a distributor had a contract, it would cover both parties doing their part. The manufacturer in this case would only be able to supply the particular kit to a single distributor. on the ohter hand the distributor woudl have to sell them or at the very least purchase X number per year etc from the manufacturer. If either party fails to live up to their part the contract is broken and the manufacturer can then sell the kit to anyone. they still have to be able to make a profit on their work regardless of what CSUSA does.

That is the behind the scenes thinking for my previous comment.

I wonder what could be worked out amoung multiple small suppliers? Rather than one person trying to take on the whole financial burden. I wonder if all the little guys we have around would be interested in a coordinated effort to purchase a min order of kits. again the demand is the key. it is a lot of revenue to have tied up in one kit that moves slowely.


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## babyblues (Nov 6, 2009)

hewunch said:


> I just checked CSUSA and all the Emps and Jr. Emps are in stock



Yeah, I just got off the phone with them and while they have been discontinued, they do have some still in stock.  I don't know what the deal was earlier this week when I called previously and they told me they were out of stock, but they confirmed through e-mail that these pens have been discontinued.  We'll see how long their current supply lasts.


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## babyblues (Nov 6, 2009)

Daniel said:


> Again the demand is the key. it is a lot of revenue to have tied up in one kit that moves slowely.



That's the problem.  The manufacturer has tied both the distributor's hands and our hands behind our backs.  It's not worth it to the distributor to spend $40,000, at a minimum, on rollerball and fountain kits in both 22K gold and black titanium just to have them sit around forever.  And we have no other access to the kits.  Dayacom advertises that they "take care of their customers."  Yeah, in this case, not so much.  They don't appear to be very accommodating or willing to sell to anyone other than a wholesale company for any less than their 500 piece minimum.

I wonder how long before other distributors around the globe are unable to afford to carry these kits too.  They're even more expensive in Australia by about $10 USD per kit.

I might just have to start making my own parts.


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