# Hard finish over oil



## JP1337 (Jan 28, 2018)

So, this is probably a dumb question as the likelihood is that other finishes won't adhere over oil but in the off chance it might work, thought I would ask.

I've been doing a lot of projects with nicely figured red gum (projects other than pens) and to bring out the beauty of the figure in the grain, the most effective thing I have found is Danish Oil. without the oil, the wood is doesn't reveal the depth of the grain and looks quite plain. But with the oil the pattern is stunning. If I can get the attachment to work, I'll upload an example.

What I want to know, is, with sufficient drying time, can I put a harder protective coating over the oiled wood or am I stuck with waxes and such which will be no good for pens.

I have ordered a plastic coating set to use on my pens, so I will eventually try it anyway, but if anyone has any experience with putting finishes over oil I'd love to hear from you.

Btw the coating I have ordered is Rustins Plastic Coating. I have a mate who uses it on pens and it is fantastic.


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## neubee (Jan 28, 2018)

I believe Shellac and lacquer will go over a Danish oil finish.


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## McKenzie Penworks (Jan 28, 2018)

When I built drums I'd use Waterlox tung oil followed with a coat of shellac and then top with poly. The barrier coat is key.


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## chartle (Jan 28, 2018)

The directions for Watco Danish oil say this. 



> PROTECTING THE WOOD
> To complete your wood project and for the best protection finish with any Rust-Oleum® Polyurethane depending on your project needs. Polyurethane can be applied after 72 hours of applying the stain. Darker colors may require a slightly longer dry time.



In order words any oil based poly.


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## chartle (Jan 28, 2018)

For pens I was a BLO (boiled linseed oil) CA Finish. 

https://www.google.com/search?q=blo...0j69i61j0l3.4183j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8


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## Jeremymc98 (Jan 28, 2018)

I've used Danish oil multiple times then finished with CA and haven't had any problems. Now keep in mi d I've only made 20-30 pens and none are older than 7 months but so far none of the finishes have failed to my knowledge.


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## magpens (Jan 28, 2018)

This is a very interesting topic.

Hope we will hear more of your efforts/results with the hard finish.


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## jttheclockman (Jan 28, 2018)

Danish oil has polyurethane in it. In woodworking spectrums not good to mix water, oil or lacquers without a barrier CA is a glue and will stick to just about anything, but as we all have seen water does not like CA. Zinnzer dewax shellac is a good barrier. Do not know the makeup of that plastic coating you speak of. Could be an epoxy resin mix of some sort.


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## donstephan (Jan 28, 2018)

Another option would be to try a wiping varnish that does not contain BLO, to see if the varnish warm up the wood sufficiently without BLO.  If not, you could try mxing your own oil-varnish blend, the "standard" formula being equal parts mineral spirits, BLO, and varnish.  In I think one of his books Jeff Jewitt offered that his experience was a mix of 1/9 BLO, 4/9 mineral spirits, and 4/9 varnish warmed up the wood as much as the "standard" formula and dried much harder because the amount of BLO was much less.  In my wiping varnish and oil-varnish blend I've always used an alkyd varnish (Pratt & Lambert 38 gloss) after seeing many comments that alkyd was the clearest of the three types of varnish.


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## JP1337 (Jan 28, 2018)

magpens said:


> This is a very interesting topic.
> 
> Hope we will hear more of your efforts/results with the hard finish.



I'll post the results once the finish has arrived and I give it a go.



jttheclockman said:


> Do not know the makeup of that plastic coating you speak of. Could be an epoxy resin mix of some sort.



I'm not entirely sure what it is made of, but it is a two part (resin+hardener). Interestingly, after mixing the resin and hardener, it can last several days in the mixing jar before it goes off so to speak. My friend had some in a small glass jar, mixed, that last an entire week (he kept it in the fridge) and was still usable with no problems. So that's interesting.

The instructions say to apply all coats in one day with one hour dry time between, then it takes two days after applying to fully harden.


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## dogcatcher (Jan 28, 2018)

I use a homemade BLO, spar and mineral spirit mix.  Basically the same thing as a Danish oil mix.   First coat has extra mineral spirits in so that it soaks into the wood deeper, second coat maybe the same or have less MS, 3rd coat is equal of all parts 1/1/1 mix.  Then depending on the look I want I may add more spar for faster build up.  

On special stuff, I do what I call a classic gunstock finish.  The easiest way to explain that is Google "Frank Whiton classic gunstock finish", a time consuming, but a very rewarding final finish that is both durable and good looking.

There is no such thing as a good, fast and easy finish, if you want good you have to work at it.


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## Bikerdad (Jan 28, 2018)

Any oil that cures can be used under any poly finish once it cures.  After it cures, you could also put shellac over it first and then you can use any topcoat.

Boiled linseed oil and real tung oil are both curing oils.  Walnut oil, mineral oil, etc, are not.


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## chartle (Jan 29, 2018)

JP1337 said:


> magpens said:
> 
> 
> > This is a very interesting topic.
> ...



I looked it up and I think it would maybe called a catalyzed lacquer in the US.

https://www.rustins.ltd/rustins/our-products/indoor/plastic-coating-hardener-gloss


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## Woodchipper (Jan 29, 2018)

Interesting and informative thread.  The only dumb question is the one not asked.


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## monophoto (Jan 29, 2018)

Bikerdad said:


> Boiled linseed oil and real tung oil are both curing oils.  Walnut oil, mineral oil, etc, are not.




Not so sure about this.

I agree that BLO and real Tung oil are drying oils.  Also that mineral oil is NOT a drying oil.

But I'm pretty sure that walnut oil is a drying oil.


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## chartle (Jan 29, 2018)

monophoto said:


> Bikerdad said:
> 
> 
> > Boiled linseed oil and real tung oil are both curing oils.  Walnut oil, mineral oil, etc, are not.
> ...



All the Walnut Oil I have found is 100% walnut oil without the metallic driers that are added to say BLO. But there maybe a Walnut Oil "Finish" that has the driers.


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## JPW062 (Jan 30, 2018)

Any oil based poly or urethane over the Danish oil should be Ok after the oil dries.  Really, a water based should be OK after it cures.

Try a thin shellac between or even instead of the oil.  Shellac is a miracle product when it comes to finishing.  The more I learn about it and more I use it the more I rely on it.  Also one of the least nasty finishes as the solids are natural and the solvent is denatured alcohol(depending what the "denaturing" additive is to the alcohol).


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