# Highest Quality Current Kit



## mark james

I recently sold some pens that were gifts to a group of Company CEO's, Executives, Doctors, Attorneys, etc... (members of Vistage)  Average price was $120.

I got a call yesterday asking for additional pens from one of the recipients:  "I want the most RELIABLE, highest QUALITY, pen (actually 7 as gifts to Office Staff), irregardless of style and material!"  (He received Majestic Jr's).

So...  What currently available kit is your favorite of all available??? This is based on Reliability of mechanism/refill, and overall quality.  Cost/style/color/finish is NOT a concern.

I have bought over the past 3 years from 15-20 vendors, so I spread my purchases.  Curious if there are "Quality" favorites.  (I am not up to kitless pens yet :frown.

VENDORS:  I'd also like input!  A PM for YOUR QUALITY favorites for sale would be great.  (I own a business and understand that some folks want the highest quality and will pay for it... and others want to have good quality at a reasonable price).

Thanks for the input.


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## Smitty37

*Best Quality*

Sorry should have been PM


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## Ted iin Michigan

For a rollerball, I can't beat the Desire/Hancock. Absolutely wonderful balance/feel in the hand. Stainless, not chrome plated. Easy assembly. And it can be a roller ball or a fp. What's to not like? It's a wee pricey - but worth it.

For a click ballpoint, I have a couple. The Big Ben cigar click is up there, as is the Aero. But I have to go with the PSI Vertex. You can put nearly any blank on it and it looks super. Plus I love the feel of this one in my hand. I can write with it all day and still love it. Again, easy assembly plus it's quite affordable.

For a twist ballpoint, I have to go with the PSI Gatsby. Probably pretty much the same as the others (Sierra, etc) but I prefer the center band on the Gatsby. I just don't like the knurled ones you see on many of them. Seems cheap. But then there's the Big Ben twist.

What a horrible question! I HATE having to make choices!


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## mark james

I've gotten some excellent PM comments from vendors!  That is very appreciated!


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## edstreet

Currently and sadly there are no 'high quality' pen kits sold in the US by any vendor.  At most is high-medium quality.  Every one in the high quality arena is cost prohibitive to stock.

Most certainly the Majestic's are decent kits but still very far from what I would call 'high quality'  While they do have higher quality production machining done they fall very short on the total pen quality.

Now it's also possible to take a medium quality pen kit and turn it into a high quality pen by replacing loads of parts, this to is often cost prohibitive.


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## Smitty37

edstreet said:


> Currently and sadly there are no 'high quality' pen kits sold in the US by any vendor.  At most is high-medium quality.  Every one in the high quality arena is cost prohibitive to stock.
> 
> Most certainly the Majestic's are decent kits but still very far from what I would call 'high quality'  While they do have higher quality production machining done they fall very short on the total pen quality.
> 
> Now it's also possible to take a medium quality pen kit and turn it into a high quality pen by replacing loads of parts, this to is often cost prohibitive.


There are those, including those with "quality" credentials at least comparable to yours who will disagree with you Ed.  Truth be known, I don't recall ever having seen how you define quality -- that does not mean you haven't given your definition, I could have missed it


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## edstreet

Smitty37 said:


> edstreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> Currently and sadly there are no 'high quality' pen kits sold in the US by any vendor.  At most is high-medium quality.  Every one in the high quality arena is cost prohibitive to stock.
> 
> Most certainly the Majestic's are decent kits but still very far from what I would call 'high quality'  While they do have higher quality production machining done they fall very short on the total pen quality.
> 
> Now it's also possible to take a medium quality pen kit and turn it into a high quality pen by replacing loads of parts, this to is often cost prohibitive.
> 
> 
> 
> There are those, including those with "quality" credentials at least comparable to yours who will disagree with you Ed.  Truth be known, I don't recall ever having seen how you define quality -- that does not mean you haven't given your definition, I could have missed it
Click to expand...



Well as you know what they say, talk is cheap and proof is in the pudding.  I do have to mention on this note that at the end of the day when all is said and done all that we are left with is your opinion and my opinion; however, if one was to post proof of quality (as I have done numerous times on this forum over the years) then that fact alone removes opinion and takes you into the realm of what is there, tangible proof that transcends opinion and speculation.  

On this note of 'credentials' we could either drop the drawers and use yard sticks to measure or we could just simply show proof of quality of pen kits like the OP was asking.  So, unless you are willing to show proof otherwise, very unlikely, I will have to say what I said holds true.  I often love to be wrong and I would very much love to be wrong on this note.


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## Sandsini

Mark,
I think this is an excellent question. One that I, as a relitave newbie here, am very interested in hearing the feedback on. I have tried several vendors and several kits from each of those vendors, trying to find the answer myself, and as I feel it's a bit early for me to weigh in on the subject I will watch the responses closely. 

Hopefully the folks with something of value to share will be willing to contribute.


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## kingkeyman

I haven't tried the eagle yet, but all of the other lazerlines stainless pens are fantastic.


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## Smitty37

edstreet said:


> Smitty37 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edstreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> Currently and sadly there are no 'high quality' pen kits sold in the US by any vendor.  At most is high-medium quality.  Every one in the high quality arena is cost prohibitive to stock.
> 
> Most certainly the Majestic's are decent kits but still very far from what I would call 'high quality'  While they do have higher quality production machining done they fall very short on the total pen quality.
> 
> Now it's also possible to take a medium quality pen kit and turn it into a high quality pen by replacing loads of parts, this to is often cost prohibitive.
> 
> 
> 
> There are those, including those with "quality" credentials at least comparable to yours who will disagree with you Ed.  Truth be known, I don't recall ever having seen how you define quality -- that does not mean you haven't given your definition, I could have missed it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Well as you know what they say, talk is cheap and proof is in the pudding.  I do have to mention on this note that at the end of the day when all is said and done all that we are left with is your opinion and my opinion; however, if one was to post proof of quality (as I have done numerous times on this forum over the years) then that fact alone removes opinion and takes you into the realm of what is there, tangible proof that transcends opinion and speculation.
> 
> On this note of 'credentials' we could either drop the drawers and use yard sticks to measure or we could just simply show proof of quality of pen kits like the OP was asking.  So, unless you are willing to show proof otherwise, very unlikely, I will have to say what I said holds true.  I often love to be wrong and I would very much love to be wrong on this note.
Click to expand...



I have a very simple, straight forward and widely accepted definition of quality....conformance to specification.  

I agree we have a different opinion as to what high quality is and I believe that is what my first post said. 

And, I did imply that my credentials in the field of quality are as good as yours.

We would also disagree on whether or not your pictures (which are excellent) prove much of anything since you take the pictures but do not have access to the specs (or at least you have never indicated that you do).


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## designer

For crying out loud.  Will you two quit bickering please.


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## Krash

To restate the desire of the original post,

 "I want the most RELIABLE, highest QUALITY, pen (actually 7 as gifts to Office Staff), irregardless of style and material!"

Where would these kits be found? In the US? No? Outside the US? If so, where? 

I think there are a lot of artists that would like to know which kits are worth investing in so we all stand to gain.


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## Smitty37

The Stainless Steel pens by Lazerlinez are well made and pretty good looking and the non moving parts will not wear out in this lifetime.  The transmissions seem to wear as well as most and the refills provided are excellent.


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## commercialbuilder

In my book the Jr. Statesman is about as good as it gets with out being pimped out.


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## Dale Lynch

My  opinion is as follows;single barrel ballpoint would be the Aero sold by several venders,two barrel ballpoint Duke sold by laulau woodworks,upgrade the ink cartridges to Parker Quink flow.Capped pen would be the Citizen rollerball and or fountain sold by R&B crafts.Upgrade the rollerball refill with a Schmidt 5888 , upgrade the fountain nib with a Bock nib.Almost forgot about The Major sold by Smitty's if it is the final twist version,great for the ladies.Need the refill upgraded like the previous ballpoints stated.I'm a big fan of Dayacoms products.

If money is no object get some of the solid silver ones from classic nib, I believe they call it the Tuscany.No experience withem myself but they will stand out if you can make a body to go with them.


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## Smitty37

Krash said:


> To restate the desire of the original post,
> 
> * "I want the most RELIABLE, highest QUALITY, pen (actually 7 as gifts to Office Staff), irregardless of style and material!"*
> 
> Where would these kits be found? In the US? No? Outside the US? If so, where?
> 
> I think there are a lot of artists that would like to know which kits are worth investing in so we all stand to gain.


Unfortunately, no one can give a definitive answer to that question because no one has ever undertaken a study of all available pen kits to determine the answer.

So the best you are going to get are opinions based mostly on personal experiences.  And, they will vary.

At art shows "kit" is a dirty word.


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## Smitty37

designer said:


> For crying out loud.  Will you two quit bickering please.


 eventually one of us will die and we'll never bicker again after that.  You being a Quality guy should know that intuitively.:biggrin::biggrin:


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## edstreet

Smitty37 said:


> designer said:
> 
> 
> 
> For crying out loud.  Will you two quit bickering please.
> 
> 
> 
> eventually one of us will die and we'll never bicker again after that.  You being a Quality guy should know that intuitively.:biggrin::biggrin:
Click to expand...


No need to bring death threats into this.  Ignoring the rude factor I will say that I would urge you to seek professional help rather than sling threats of harm to yourself or others in this manner.


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## alphageek

edstreet said:


> Smitty37 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> designer said:
> 
> 
> 
> For crying out loud.  Will you two quit bickering please.
> 
> 
> 
> eventually one of us will die and we'll never bicker again after that.  You being a Quality guy should know that intuitively.:biggrin::biggrin:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No need to bring death threats into this.  Ignoring the rude factor I will say that I would urge you to seek professional help rather than sling threats of harm to yourself or others in this manner.
Click to expand...


Ed.. There was no death threat here.   I see no threat of harm.  You and Smitty have a difference of opinion.   All he was stating is that its unlikely for either of you to change your opinion.

If this is a death threat, so is every marriage vow "until death do us part"!?

Said another way, you two just need to "agree to disagree" and move on.

Dean
Assistant Moderator


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## Smitty37

alphageek said:


> edstreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Smitty37 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> designer said:
> 
> 
> 
> For crying out loud.  Will you two quit bickering please.
> 
> 
> 
> eventually one of us will die and we'll never bicker again after that.  You being a Quality guy should know that intuitively.:biggrin::biggrin:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No need to bring death threats into this.  Ignoring the rude factor I will say that I would urge you to seek professional help rather than sling threats of harm to yourself or others in this manner.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ed.. There was no death threat here.   I see no threat of harm.  You and Smitty have a difference of opinion.   All he was stating is that its unlikely for either of you to change your opinion.
> 
> If this is a death threat, so is every marriage vow "until death do us part"!?
> 
> Said another way, you two just need to "agree to disagree" and move on.
> 
> Dean
> Assistant Moderator
Click to expand...

I did Dean.


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## John Pratt

mark james said:


> I've gotten some excellent PM comments from vendors! That is very appreciated!


 

I find this to be the most disconcerting post in the thread. I am not a vendor, but I am interested in what vendors and turners consider their highest quality pen. If the results are restricted to the OP's PM account, how does that help the rest of us who are interested in the thread results?

John


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## sbell111

John Pratt said:


> mark james said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've gotten some excellent PM comments from vendors! That is very appreciated!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I find this to be the most disconcerting post in the thread. I am not a vendor, but I am interested in what vendors and turners consider their highest quality pen. If the results are restricted to the OP's PM account, how does that help the rest of us who are interested in the thread results?
> 
> John
Click to expand...


The problem is that vendors often recommend some kit that they sell.  Doing this within the thread would tend to violate forum rules.  If their kits truly are outstanding, some non-vendor purchaser will recommend it.


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## sbell111

alphageek said:


> If this is a death threat, so is every marriage vow "*until death do us part*"!?


Some would see the bolded part as a threat, just not a death threat. Death is the consideration part of the marriage contract. 

(Not me, obviously, as I thank the Lord every day for the opportumity to be married to my wife.)


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## Smitty37

sbell111 said:


> John Pratt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mark james said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've gotten some excellent PM comments from vendors! That is very appreciated!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I find this to be the most disconcerting post in the thread. I am not a vendor, but I am interested in what vendors and turners consider their highest quality pen. If the results are restricted to the OP's PM account, how does that help the rest of us who are interested in the thread results?
> 
> John
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The problem is that vendors often recommend some kit that they sell.  Doing this within the thread would tend to violate forum rules.
Click to expand...

 In addition, I am not likely to tell anyone what I personally think is the "best" pen kit I sell unless they specifically ask.  Then I probably would not tell them either.  I would tell them the offerings that I think represent the best buy in the price range they are suggesting.


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## Smitty37

sbell111 said:


> alphageek said:
> 
> 
> 
> If this is a death threat, so is every marriage vow "*until death do us part*"!?
> 
> 
> 
> Some would see the bolded part as a threat, just not a death threat. Death is the consideration part of the marriage contract.
> 
> (Not me, obviously, as I thank the Lord every day for the opportumity to be married to my wife.)
Click to expand...

After 52+ years of wedded bliss, you might get the impression the my wife and I took that part pretty seriously too....however I have to admit that my wife has always been a little slack on the "obey" part of the "love, honor and obey" phrase that used to be included in the marriage vows.


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## sbell111

Smitty37 said:


> sbell111 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alphageek said:
> 
> 
> 
> If this is a death threat, so is every marriage vow "*until death do us part*"!?
> 
> 
> 
> Some would see the bolded part as a threat, just not a death threat. Death is the consideration part of the marriage contract.
> 
> (Not me, obviously, as I thank the Lord every day for the opportumity to be married to my wife.)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> After 52+ years of wedded bliss, you might get the impression the my wife and I took that part pretty seriously too....however I have to admit that my wife has always been a little slack on the "obey" part of the "love, honor and obey" phrase that used to be included in the marriage vows.
Click to expand...

My wife made the priest use alternative vows. :frown:


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## southernclay

The vendors that carry multiple manufacturers lines are cautious to put one vendor in front of the other publicly as well I would think. 

My input, +1 on stainless. My only concern at this point in with the Liberty. I use one as my carry pen. If my finish wears out eventually I don't think it can be disassembled without hurting the blank. I do think the solid metal will outlast any finish...or at least my finish so that has a little concern for me.


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## keithbyrd

What could have been an interesting discussion ended up being a pissing match by two guys that should know better.  I'm sorry I read it.  Too much of this kind of stuff on here.


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## Krash

Smitty37 said:


> Krash said:
> 
> 
> 
> To restate the desire of the original post,
> 
> *"I want the most RELIABLE, highest QUALITY, pen (actually 7 as gifts to Office Staff), irregardless of style and material!"*
> 
> Where would these kits be found? In the US? No? Outside the US? If so, where?
> 
> I think there are a lot of artists that would like to know which kits are worth investing in so we all stand to gain.
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, no one can give a definitive answer to that question because no one has ever undertaken a study of all available pen kits to determine the answer.
> 
> So the best you are going to get are opinions based mostly on personal experiences. And, they will vary.
> 
> At art shows "kit" is a dirty word.
Click to expand...

 
That's true LeRoy. But, I don't think the original question was, "Is there a study that has been done that proves the highest quality pen components?" Even very high quality pens fail from time to time. For sure, there are those, like yourself, that proudly inspect your offerings to ensure they continue to meet the design specifications, and we all appreciate your integrity there. But, specifications are not everything. The Ford Pinto had fine dimensional specifications and was probably built to them. So was my old Porsche. Which one proved to be the better car? 

So, in addition to any study that showed how well manufacturers met their design dimensional tolerances, I would dearly appreciate the hands-on experience of the wonderful artists here on IAP. Most likely, their opinion would be held in a higher position than the specs anyway, otherwise we would all just get off the site and read a book. It's about relationships and if you, LeRoy, tell me that you love a certain pen component and carry it yourself, I would be urged to try one myself, not because of the manufacturing fidelity but because of our relational fidelity. I trust you won't steer me wrong.

I will listen to edstreet also even though his delivery is offensive. His opinion is valid and he obviously has tons of experience to offer. I went looking on his site after reading his posts and saw some of the pens he has made. I took note of the pen components he used because I know him to be discerning of the components he uses and I will tend to consider them more highly when I buy. 

Make it a great day!


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## Krash

keithbyrd said:


> What could have been an interesting discussion ended up being a pissing match by two guys that should know better. I'm sorry I read it. Too much of this kind of stuff on here.


 
I hear ya Keith. But, it still is an interesting discussion.

What is your favorite component and why?


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## Smitty37

Krash said:


> Smitty37 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Krash said:
> 
> 
> 
> To restate the desire of the original post,
> 
> *"I want the most RELIABLE, highest QUALITY, pen (actually 7 as gifts to Office Staff), irregardless of style and material!"*
> 
> Where would these kits be found? In the US? No? Outside the US? If so, where?
> 
> I think there are a lot of artists that would like to know which kits are worth investing in so we all stand to gain.
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, no one can give a definitive answer to that question because no one has ever undertaken a study of all available pen kits to determine the answer.
> 
> So the best you are going to get are opinions based mostly on personal experiences. And, they will vary.
> 
> At art shows "kit" is a dirty word.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's true LeRoy. But, I don't think the original question was, "Is there a study that has been done that proves the highest quality pen components?" Even very high quality pens fail from time to time. For sure, there are those, like yourself, that proudly inspect your offerings to ensure they continue to meet the design specifications, and we all appreciate your integrity there. But, specifications are not everything. The Ford Pinto had fine dimensional specifications and was probably built to them. So was my old Porsche. Which one proved to be the better car?
> 
> So, in addition to any study that showed how well manufacturers met their design dimensional tolerances, I would dearly appreciate the hands-on experience of the wonderful artists here on IAP. Most likely, their opinion would be held in a higher position than the specs anyway, otherwise we would all just get off the site and read a book. It's about relationships and if you, LeRoy, tell me that you love a certain pen component and carry it yourself, I would be urged to try one myself, not because of the manufacturing fidelity but because of our relational fidelity. I trust you won't steer me wrong.
> 
> I will listen to edstreet also even though his delivery is offensive. His opinion is valid and he obviously has tons of experience to offer. I went looking on his site after reading his posts and saw some of the pens he has made. I took note of the pen components he used because I know him to be discerning of the components he uses and I will tend to consider them more highly when I buy.
> 
> Make it a great day!
Click to expand...

Specifications do matter, you can specify that a pen be made of pure platinum you can also specify that the same "kit" be made of pure stainless steel.  All other things being equal you can not say the platinum is a better kit only, that because platinum is more expensive than stainless steel, it is a more expensive kit and more likely to be unique relating to the materials used to build it. The same would be true of the cars....I had a Dodge minivan for 4 years that never saw the inside of a garage except to get the oil changed, I wore out 1 set of tires.  During the same time frame a guy that I worked with who had no kids bought a Porsche (don't remember the exact model) it was in the garage so often he thought he was going to have to send to Germany and import a mechanic who could speak to it in German.  

Which was a quality car?  The one that didn't cost much, hadf much looser specs but did what it was supposed to do or the one that had better specs that it did not meet.

And if comfort for passengers was a criteria of defining quality the caravan would have one hands down.


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## mark james

John Pratt said:


> mark james said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've gotten some excellent PM comments from vendors! That is very appreciated!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I find this to be the most disconcerting post in the thread. I am not a vendor, but I am interested in what vendors and turners consider their highest quality pen. If the results are restricted to the OP's PM account, how does that help the rest of us who are interested in the thread results?
> 
> John
Click to expand...




Hi John:

I did not intend to create an issue with my request.  I understand your point though.

Having said that, I do not expect any vendor to tell us publicly their PERSONAL opinion of their highest to lowest quality product.  But...  they have vast amounts of knowledge of their product line, and try to provide excellent products across price ranges and styles.  That knowledge was what I was seeking.

As an example:  I was at a gathering this spring where one of our vendors was selling kits at a drastically reduced price because they did not meet HIS standards for platings (I believe that was the issue).  This greatly impressed me.  While I would like to give this individual credit for their integrity, his issue was with one of his longstanding suppliers and it may have been a bad batch, a bad design, or any number of issues.  The point is that he had the integrity to maintain high quality, and he recognized the problem far quicker than I would have.

In hindsight, I could have asked the vendors their opinion myself through PM's


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## Smitty37

southernclay said:


> The vendors that carry multiple manufacturers lines are cautious to put one vendor in front of the other publicly as well I would think.
> 
> My input, +1 on stainless. My only concern at this point in with the Liberty. I use one as my carry pen. If my finish wears out eventually I don't think it can be disassembled without hurting the blank. I do think the solid metal will outlast any finish...or at least my finish so that has a little concern for me.



Generally, a vendor will say something like "If I didn't think it was good enough, I wouldn't sell it".  Additionally, there is always what sells.  Most vendors will carry kits they don't especially like personally, but their customers might. I don't want my personal taste to prevent me from having what the customer wants to buy.


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## Smitty37

John Pratt said:


> mark james said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've gotten some excellent PM comments from vendors! That is very appreciated!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I find this to be the most disconcerting post in the thread. I am not a vendor, but I am interested in what vendors and turners consider their highest quality pen. If the results are restricted to the OP's PM account, how does that help the rest of us who are interested in the thread results?
> 
> John
Click to expand...

 It doesn't, but as a vendor and speaking only for myself, for a whole host of reasons,I will never answer that question in a public forum.  My guess would be that there are a lot of other vendors who would not answer it either so I don't really think you were deprived of any information.


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## Jim Burr

Smitty37 said:


> Krash said:
> 
> 
> 
> So the best you are going to get are opinions based mostly on personal experiences.  And, they will vary.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is the best answer...IMHO
Click to expand...


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## keithbyrd

Krash said:


> keithbyrd said:
> 
> 
> 
> What could have been an interesting discussion ended up being a pissing match by two guys that should know better. I'm sorry I read it. Too much of this kind of stuff on here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hear ya Keith. But, it still is an interesting discussion.
> 
> What is your favorite component and why?
Click to expand...


What is your "Favorite" component is a good question!  I like the Statesman Series both regular and Jr II series.  I find them to be consistently standard - I haven't had any problems with components and tubes not fitting, I have had no thread problems.   I did find two out of round end caps - could have been struck/bent somehow.  Proportions and weight are good and are well balanced. Platings are always good - good feel in my hand.  The accent trim pieces are classy without being gaudy and I have good luck selling them.  They are on the higher end in price and easily can sell them for well over $150 depending on the blank/finial/ etc etc.  It is my go to pen.  That is why they are my favorite!


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## Jim Burr

[/QUOTE]
What is your "Favorite" component is a good question!  I like the Statesman Series both regular and Jr II series.  I find them to be consistently standard - I haven't had any problems with components and tubes not fitting, I have had no thread problems.   I did find two out of round end caps - could have been struck/bent somehow.  Proportions and weight are good and are well balanced. Platings are always good - good feel in my hand.  The accent trim pieces are classy without being gaudy and I have good luck selling them.  They are on the higher end in price and easily can sell them for well over $150 depending on the blank/finial/ etc etc.  It is my go to pen.  That is why they are my favorite![/QUOTE]

For a swap a couple years ago, I received a Havana...appeared to be clean, well milled, simple and with the right blank...could be very elegant. Have to revisit that for the "Monster, but cool" category! Keith, I'm just not sure about the Jr Gent II...well milled...but I maybe confusing flash and quality. 
A previous post mentioned a gritty feel when threading parts. 
Since I've been making pens I have always put a thin sliver of wax on the male end...end-o-grit and squeak. JMHO and offering.


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## mikespenturningz

I have had very good luck with the Jr. Gent 2's but they have changed now and I am not sure  about the change yet? I know there were some cost saving measures taken in the most recent version of them that were actually cheapening them up. For instance the rings that go on the main barrel are now part of the threaded piece and the cap to body thread is cheaper especially in the fact that there is no taper at the end to help get it started. That would have been one more machine task so it was dropped to keep the kits price to make down. I don't see any lowering of kit prices because of these changes so it is more about holding price and profit I guess.

I have made lots of the Lazerlinez pens and have another 40 or so on order. These pens are a pleasure to make and they are certainly quality component set. I look forward to more designs from Constant in the future. I am waiting for it so I can go full made in USA. 

I ordered 4 of the pens in the recent group buy but don 't know what the quality of them will be but I am expecting them to be way above what I have used before since they are normally $70 or so per unit. Maybe Ed can chime in on what he think of them?

Also what about the solid silver component sets that are around. I have not made any of these but would like to.


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## keithbyrd

Keith, I'm just not sure about the Jr Gent II...well milled...but I maybe confusing flash and quality. 
A previous post mentioned a gritty feel when threading parts. 
Since I've been making pens I have always put a thin sliver of wax on the male end...end-o-grit and squeak. JMHO and offering.[/QUOTE]

Jim - I don't care too much for the Gents - don't care for the plastic threads showing - I have had some plating wear off - I generally only make them now if someone asks for it specifically.


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## Charlie_W

As for the Aero, I had one with the Rose Gold accents in which the finish on the finial has gone bad just from my wife's fingerprints. I would rather go with the black Ti/ chrome. I still like the size and feel of the pen.


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## Smitty37

Charlie_W said:


> As for the Aero, I had one with the Rose Gold accents in which the finish on the finial has gone bad just from my wife's fingerprints. I would rather go with the black Ti/ chrome. I still like the size and feel of the pen.


If you  think gold is too soft, you'll probably find rose gold the same since it is about 18K gold (75% Gold, 22.5% copper and 2.5% silver is a typical alloy) and will wear almost like 24K since copper doesn't wear much better.


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## kyaggie

They are not the most expensive hardware sets (fortunately) nor the most "flashy" but when someone wants my highest quality pen they get the Desire rollerball/fountain or Liberty ballpoint both from Lazerlinez... simple and elegant lines, solid stainless so there is no finish to wear off, machined here in the USA and great feeling pens in your hand.

Mike


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## Leatherman1998

If possible I would go with the Hancock and Liberty. I have never had a problem with the Liberty mechanism.


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## MikeinSC

How about the Artisan Venus? Any thoughts there? 
 It's on my short list of kits...err...components...to try. Looks great and the CSUSA commercial on YouTube has sexy jazz music playing that has helped influence me.


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## edstreet

MikeinSC said:


> How about the Artisan Venus? Any thoughts there?
> It's on my short list of kits...err...components...to try. Looks great and the CSUSA commercial on YouTube has sexy jazz music playing that has helped influence me.



The Venus is not a bad kit overall and one of the 'better' kits.  However ...  They, along with the rest of the line suffers greatly from plating faults, the center band and embeds in the ends have alignment problems, the center band is poor construction quality, the top cap still uses a low quality plastic sleeve.  The entire lower tube is poorly designed (even with the recent changes)

One of the big redeeming qualities on this kit was transparency with the Gent Jr, that to has gone away with the recent bastardizing and bad business practices.

However, visually it is a very nice looking but has a lot of bling to it.


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## MikeinSC

Is the Venus worth the $45? I've done a few of tue Zen's without issue.


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## edstreet

MikeinSC said:


> Is the Venus worth the $45? I've done a few of tue Zen's without issue.



Considering the Nouveau Sceptre is $32, carries the same design problems, minus the center band and of equal or slightly better construction quality then Yes I would have to say it's over priced.  However Dayacom feels they are Montblanc and loves to charge more $ due to their logo.  As in marketing, jewelry and others they love to push products with a label and equate the label to something of high value so you feel better about over paying.


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## Smitty37

MikeinSC said:


> Is the Venus worth the $45? I've done a few of tue Zen's without issue.


That is something you have to decide. Not if it is worth $45.00. but if it is worth $45.00 to you.  Frankly it would not be worth that much to me....but I am not you.

The Artisian Venus is sold by CSUSA and they determine their selling price...if it is too high they won't sell enough to continue the line.  That's true regardless of who the manufacturer is.  I think in this case it is Dayacom but you can rest assured that Dayacom does not care what CSUSA sells the kit for.


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## flyitfast

Charlie_W said:


> As for the Aero, I had one with the Rose Gold accents in which the finish on the finial has gone bad just from my wife's fingerprints. I would rather go with the black Ti/ chrome. I still like the size and feel of the pen.


 
+1 on your comments. I have several Aeros with Rose Gold that I have put away for the same problem. All other Aero finishes have worked out well.
gordon


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## ladycop322

I got a lot of great ideas from all of you plus this thread was better than my soap opera!  Thank you for the entertainment! Happy Healthy New Year to all!

Michelle


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## Bikerdad

Coming in late here, interesting conversation.  Methinks though that the bickering between the two curmudgeons :wink: distracted from the main question, or more importantly, from accurately framing the question.

I would put it this way:  The OP's customer wants the highest quality.  How is the CUSTOMER most likely to assess that?  There have been hints of it in the discussion here, but nobody has seized up the answer.

If you were asking your average high school kid who has just gotten his license about the "highest quality car", his answer isn't likely to be very helpful because he doesn't have much experience with cars HIMSELF.  Ask your average "Company CEO's, Executives, Doctors, Attorneys, etc..." about high quality cars, and *they* will have a frame of reference.

So with regards to pens, what is the frame of reference that our "Company CEO's, Executives, Doctors, Attorneys, etc..." are likely to have?

THAT'S your quality standard.  The world of premium (not necessarily ultra-premium/jewelry quality) "over the counter" pens.  Properly made, will the kit pen provide as reliable and "enjoyable" a writing experience as  a $100 - $500+ Parker/Cross/Mont Blanc/Aurora/Namiki/Waterman/Sheaffer/etc?  If it doesn't meet THAT bar, then the plating is inconsequential.  Sure, the ink cartridge can be replaced/upgraded, but you're still faced with the quality of the mechanism.  Along with that is the ergonomics.  A kit may be loaded with bling and top notch plating, but if it's actually miserable to write with the pen, then it falls into the category of "low quality" in my book, although others may disagree when the purpose of the pen is actually to be pen-like art/status marker.  (This is one facet of the ancient art vs craft arguments).  Then one can worry about the plating, the balance of the finished pen, the ergonomics (actually, ergos come into the enjoyment).

This points to something I've not seen a lot of here, although in fairness I've not looked for it.

How do the kits we're using realistically compare to the "industry standards"?


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## Brian G

They might have resolved that in other threads about quality since July of 2014.


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## mark james

...This thread is over 18 months old, and quite frankly...  My question/issues are resolved.  Have fun folks!


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## Smitty37

mark james said:


> ...This thread is over 18 months old, and quite frankly...  My question/issues are resolved.  Have fun folks!


 It is an old debate...quality vs luxury.  With our use, abuse and misuse of the English language it will never be settled....:biggrin::biggrin:


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