# Pen Parts



## Rod (Apr 16, 2007)

Where can you buy parts for pen kits? I recently bought a Baron kit from Arizona Silhoulette and it was missing the roller ball nib assembly. I contacted them and the reply was I don't stock parts for Barons. The kit is useless if you can't finish the pen. I will not buy there again. Rod


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## Mikey (Apr 16, 2007)

Rod, there was a response to your post downstairs. I believe you should call him back and explain a kit you purchased from them was missing parts. He can either send you a part from one unopened kit, or he can send you a new kit as an exchange. The suggestion in the classifieds was to call Berea. What you need to do is make the company you purchased from make it right. (Arizona)


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## GaryMGg (Apr 16, 2007)

I also posted a reply in the Classified where you wrote.
Call Bill again and explain that you received a Baron from him that was packaged incorrectly.
He might not have understood that you weren't simply looking for replacement parts but that the
packaging was defective.

Gary


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## Rod (Apr 16, 2007)

I thought I was clear in the E-Mail I sent but I'll give a call, thanks..Rod.


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## leehljp (Apr 16, 2007)

Communication is a pain sometimes! [:0] If the first thing he understood was "I need a part to a  . . ." then I can undertand his answer. 

If the first thing was he understood or read was  "I bought a kit from you that is missing . . . " - then he probably would have responded differently. 

As I stated in the first line, communication is a pain sometimes. I am guilty of that.


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## BUGSY (Apr 16, 2007)

THATS REAL STRANGE BECAUSE BB USUALLY JUMPS RIGHT ON A PROBLEM..bugsy


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## Bill Baumbeck (Apr 17, 2007)

Hello Rod,

Your message to this group was a little misleading when you mentioned that you recently purchased a Baron pen from us.  The actual purchase took place in June 2005.  If you had, in fact, <u>recently</u> purchased the kit from us I would have cannibalized a kit to replace the missing part.  

You stretched the truth a bit and I don't appreciate it. 

Bill Baumbeck
Arizona Silhouette


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## cozee (Apr 17, 2007)

I have yet to purchase anything from AS but have not had any problems with the suppliers I have bought from. At the least, he should have exchanged the kit.


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## thewishman (Apr 17, 2007)

June 2005 is not recent. Now <u>July</u> 2005.....  []

Chris


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## Mikey (Apr 17, 2007)

Bill, you know he made the purchase and he needs ONE freaking part. So what if he made the purchase a week ago, a month ago, or even a year ago. You know he purchased the kit from you and yet you refuse to take care of a customer. I had no idea pen kits went bad sitting in the bag, so if I ever order from you again, please supply me with items you have gotten in stock within the last two weeks.


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## Paul in OKC (Apr 17, 2007)

Sorry, I do think the time passing is relevant. It is kind of like the fine print, kits should be inspected when they arrive to make sure it's all there. 
 And as for kits going bad, other than the ink, I have kits that I have still in bags that I have had for two plus years, no problem.  
 I have only ordered once from Bill, but we have spoke on the phone as well on another thing. You won't find a better person to do business with IMO.


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## DCBluesman (Apr 17, 2007)

I'm with Paul on this.  I know Bill and Kathy better than most folks on the site and he is a very responsible business man with a great deal of integrity.  He's given far more than his share of support to the pen turning community and continues to do so.  

As for calling a problem his attention to a missing part on a purchase made nearly two years ago, I think the time to complain has passed significantly.  If you look at Bill's website and at the attachment he places on every invoice, he advises that "Any errors must be reported to us within five (5) days of receiving your order."  

Somehow I think the consumer has the responsibility to check their order for accuracy.  Blaming the vendor for you not taking the time to check your order is really inappropriate.


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## Mikey (Apr 17, 2007)

> _Originally posted by DCBluesman_
> 
> Somehow I think the consumer has the responsibility to check their order for accuracy.  Blaming the vendor for you not taking the time to check your order is really inappropriate.


To me, there is a difference between pulling out the bags from your box and saying I have xx kit- check, 2 of xx kit-ckeck and so on and actually counting all the parts in each kit. I have gotten kits before that have sat for quite a while and when I go to make them, I notice they are missing a tube or some small part. I am lucky enough to be able to find some parts locally or from other members, but if not I would call the company I ordered from and expect them to be reasonable to satisfy a customer.

I would agree with you and Paul if he just now looked in his box and said hey wait, I'm missing a pen kit as I ordered 6 and only got 5. To argue over a part is silly IMO.

As to knowing Bill a long time, I am glad that you have become at least friends. My experience differs though. I have called him exactly onetime. That one phone call will also be the last as he was very rude and came across as not wanting to spend even a minute of his time to deal with me. This was not from me demanding anything, but from the very first word he spoke. 

Oddly enough, when I walk into another supplier and say I need xx for such and such a kit, I am handed the parts no charge as a thank you for the business. I am not asked when the kits were purchased or even if I purchased from them. I am treated well and with respect and I will continue to give that company whatever business I can. YMMV


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## samuel07 (Apr 17, 2007)

Rod
What part do you need? I might or I'm sure someone around here will have it.

Mikey
I would encourage you to reconsider your opinion of Bill Based on one phone conversation. I know people have told me I have sounded rude on the phone and I surely didn't mean it. I'm not trying to defend Bill but my dealings with him have alweays been great and I appreciate the level of service he provides. 

We have all been rude to others at times and didn't mean it. I am finding as I get older that it is much easier to give someone the benefit of the doubt rather than holding a grudge. More times than not I find that once I get all the info of a given stuation that I begin to view things differently.
So many here on the forum have benefitted from dealing with AS and I think you and Rod would be the ones to lose out if you decide not deal with them based on single incedences.

Maybe just maybe you could call Bill again and say " Bill, I may be wrong but... this is why I feel the way I do" then just tell him why you thought he sounded rude. I think only two things could happen. Either you will get confirmation of your original opinion or you might end up with a new friend.


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## Ligget (Apr 17, 2007)

Rod I think you have done wrong posting your complaint on here about Bill`s service, heck you are lucky as he doesn`t sell to us outside the USA.[]


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## Mikey (Apr 17, 2007)

Mark, you can buy the same kits from more than just AS. There are suppliers in Canada and Europe. Don't know what the prices are, but they do exist. 

Samuel, there is an old saying that you only get one chance to make a first impression. I heard great things about the site and products and was shot down in the water and it left a bad taste in my mouth. Perhaps another call may be in order someday, but I am the customer and expect to be treated much better than I was everytime I call, not just on good days or when I have gotten to know someone.

I am just glad this whole conversation has remained civil with people on both sides chiming in to offer an opinion and experience.


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## Lynn Livingston (Apr 17, 2007)

> _Originally posted by ligget_
> <br />Rod I think you have done wrong posting your complaint on here about Bill`s service, heck you are lucky as he doesn`t sell to us outside the USA.[]



Why do you think he has done wrong? Would you also think it wrong if he posted a "kodos"? 
Are we here to share experiences? 

Lynn


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## oldtoolsniper (Apr 17, 2007)

Would w-mart or one of the box stores replace the part after two years? Most wonâ€™t even look at you after 30 days and god forbid you donâ€™t have a receipt. Heck the receipts turn white after that long so what do you do? 

As a Marine I learned to check my gear and be careful about what I signed for. Inventory the gear when you get it will be the lesson learned here. 

I will give you credit on being honest. You could have just ordered another kit and called to say the part was missing. I salute you for that and if I had the part I would send it out to you. I have never turned one of those or I would have some parts as I tend to wreck a few before I get the hang of each new kit.


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## samuel07 (Apr 17, 2007)

I wanted to apologize for something that might be mis-understood.


> So many here on the forum have benefitted from dealing with AS and I think you and Rod would be the ones to lose out if you decide not deal with them based on single incedences.


Poor choice of words on my part; From my experience I feel that I have benfitted from Bill and the business he runs and that I would not want anyone to miss out on the things Bill has to offer (experience, value ... etc.)

Mikey and Rod forgive me if I came across self righteous.


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## Randy_ (Apr 17, 2007)

I agree with those who suggest that the sellers responsibility in this particular matter has been extinguished after nearly two years.  The buyer does have the responsibility to see that the items purchased meet his approval and he should do so in a reasonable period of time.  Bill's 5 day limit is probably a little strict. But if you haven't checked out your purchase within 30 days, I don't think you should hold the seller responsible any longer.


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## Pipes (Apr 17, 2007)

Its why I buy all my Berea kits from Bill he handles a problem fast ! has for me anyway . And I don't know him at all just a customer . a happy one .. []


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## jack barnes (Apr 17, 2007)

Rod recently two years ago I bought something at Sears it is missing a part now, Should I expect them to replace it now?
Mikey could it be partly the way you came off on the phone to Bill that cause him to react the way he did?
Rod I'm going to make an order from Bill shortly, If you let me know what finish it is I'll order one and send the part free of charge.

Jack


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## Poppy (Apr 17, 2007)

Maybe this should be started as a poll but I wonder how many folks open every kit they receive and check that every part is included and is the correct fit etc.? Not intended to be sarcastic.....just wondering.

Many points to be taken here, interesting thread.


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## Rod (Apr 17, 2007)

When I ordered these kits from AS, yes it was more than one,(4), I had never made a Baron. I was excited when I got them and made one to show around.I did'nt know how many parts were in the kit. I just followed the directions to put it together.The rest of the kits I put into my stock, incase I had someone order one. I did not count pieces in the kits.I had not sold any Barons but had not made one in awhile so I decided to do another.Thats when I found I was missing a part.I was just disappointed in the way I was treated. But thanks to the good people on this forum I have had several offers to help and will be able to complete this pen.This order was 6/05. Pen born on 4/07. Pen makers check your kits you may be missing parts!. Thanks to all Rod..


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## GaryMGg (Apr 17, 2007)

I've been involved in several group buys recently and haven't checked each individual kit. I merely check to make sure the label agrees with what I ordered and the quantities are correct.
This thread gave me cause to think because WHAT IF some of those expensive kits are missing parts.
So, I called CSUSA and asked their customer service rep. what would be the policy IF I found out that a kit I bought two years ago was missing parts -- what I call a packaging defect. Worse, I wouldn't have a reciept and they'd have no record I bought it because it was part of a group buy.
Her answer was IF it's a CSUSA kit, we'll take care of the problem forever without any time limit. Period.

Perhaps there is a difference between the importer/wholesaler and the reseller/retailer and the way they must manage their business. IF I were a retailer/reseller, I think I'd have to have a time limit because I don't control the main inventory, what gets imported, or when styles change.

I've been in retail and stocked lots of small parts and did repairs and service.
The guys who do this like Bill, Tim & Tracey, Ernie, and the rest have my thanks as well as my respect. It's a tough nut. Glad I don't have to make that choice anymore. []

Gary


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## Randy_ (Apr 17, 2007)

> _Originally posted by Poppy_
> <br />Maybe this should be started as a poll but I wonder how many folks open every kit they receive and check that every part is included and is the correct fit etc.? Not intended to be sarcastic.....just wondering.




I did not used to; but after an incident where I discovered a problem, I now check every kit for every part and where screw caps are involved, I screw the parts together to make sure the threads work properly.  I also operate the transmissions to make sure they are functioning properly.  I have caught a few problems so it is worth the effort of a careful check!!!  Be sure to check your bushings, too.[^]


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## Lynn Livingston (Apr 17, 2007)

[/quote]

I did not used to; but after an incident where I discovered a problem, I now check every kit for every part and where screw caps are involved, I screw the parts together to make sure the threads work properly.  I also operate the transmissions to make sure they are functioning properly.  I have caught a few problems so it is worth the effort of a careful check!!!  Be sure to check your bushings, too.[^]
[/quote]

This is good sane advise. I also have run into all these problems mentioned. However, I'm the worst at checking my orders in. Well, I mean all the way down to individual parts and such. But, I've payed the price for not being judicious as well! But, OTOH, I do have a decent "junk" box??? Ouch!

Lynn


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## jughead (Apr 17, 2007)

Originally posted by Mikey


> As to knowing Bill a long time, I am glad that you have become at least friends. My experience differs though. I have called him exactly onetime. That one phone call will also be the last as he was very rude and came across as not wanting to spend even a minute of his time to deal with me. This was not from me demanding anything, but from the very first word he spoke.



I have ordered from B.B. a couple of times. He comes across as rude over the phone but is still very helpful. I will order from him again in the future. I have a friend that has talked to him one time on the phone and sent an email one time and now refuses to ever do business with him again because of the apparent rudeness.

Unless I caught B.B. on a bad day ........[?]


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## reed43 (Apr 18, 2007)

If you call before the times listed there is the possibility that I will not be able to spend much time talking to you.  My mornings and afternoons are spent packing and shipping orders.   I realize that our business hours are different than most other businesses but this schedule allows us to maximize our efforts to accomplish our work load.
We are more than happy to discuss anything you want to talk about during our indicated business hours.  If our business hours don't meet your needs then I respectfully suggest that you call one of the other suppliers who have business hours more to your liking. 

Idon't know if this helps anyone but I though it worth posting.
This is from BB site under Phone Number


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## Pipes (Apr 18, 2007)

> _Originally posted by Poppy_
> <br />Maybe this should be started as a poll but I wonder how many folks open every kit they receive and check that every part is included and is the correct fit etc.? Not intended to be sarcastic.....just wondering.
> 
> Many points to be taken here, interesting thread.



I didn't use to but sense I have received so many kits freom dealers missing or with the WRONG parts mostly tubes I check them all the day they show up ... Last time I received my order for 7mm Roundtops I got  tubes both the same size . The kit has 2 diffrent size tubes to be right in length  . But It seems If I order 50 to a 100 kits somthing is wrong with a few a them everytime . NO MATTER WHO the dealer is ..


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## Ligget (Apr 18, 2007)

Mikey ~ thanks for the info, I already use www.penblanks.ca who ship real fast and have some beautiful eye candy too.[]


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## Ligget (Apr 18, 2007)

> _Originally posted by Lynn Livingston_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...



Lynn I thought he done wrong for bringing down Bills customer service in an open forum, I would have kept it between myself and Bill in private especially considering the massive time laps since he ordered the kits.
Just my opinion![]


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## Mikey (Apr 18, 2007)

Just for the record, I called after the hour the site said to call, and my exact words were "Good evening, I have a few questions about some of the pen kits you sell". That's it guys.

Second, I am sure glad some of you guys have time to check every part in every kit. If I started doing that I would have to charge more for every pen as I would be wasting a lot of time on this stuff. When i make something I grab the tubes out of a kit, make the blanks and then grab the rest of the bag for assembly. Like I said, if I had a problem with a missing part, I've never had a problem getting parts handed to me, no questions asked.

Third, I am glad that CS issues are brought out in the open. What good is sharing knowledge if nobody finds out who the sellers are that people may want to stay away from? this post reminded me of why I try to order from everyone else before I order through AS. A wise person elsewhere said "If a customer has a good buying experience they will tell one person, if they have a bad experience they will tell 10 people and in turn they will tell another 10". Had BB just sent out a part, the OP may have come here and said what a great experience he just had and I may have rethunk my position and it may have caused people who normally don't order there or who have never ordered there to spend some $$ with BB. It would have taken a few $ to make a happy customer, and potentially it may have generated many $ in return.

Mark, you mentioned the should have kept it private. I do believe he did until he got an answer that wasn't to his satisfaction. When I deal with a contractor at wwork, I give them a chance to make right until they choose to end our business relationship. At that point I make sure I let everyone know what type of contractor they could be dealing with if they go with that company.


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## ctwxlvr (Apr 18, 2007)

I check all my kits, for major parts when they come in, I don't always check the fit of parts, but do check threads and such to make sure they are at there.  As to customer service I have to say if the customer is a "regular" placing an order every month or so then yes I would replace the part after a year or so.... but if this was the only order they had placed since that time I would have a hard time justifying breaking a kit for a one time customer who's order was placed over a year ago. I also look at the cost of the kit/item as to "is it worth my time to fight for a replacement" a slimline heck no, use the parts for other experiments, a EL Grande heck yes it is an expensive kit.

If I order a large amount(50+) of one type of kit, I expect to loose 1 to 2% to defects in manufacture or packaging, on the other hand if I order only one or two of a kit I expect it to be defect free.


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## Mikey (Apr 18, 2007)

No actually, I don't. I am sitting here at work on hold waiting for someone to help me out with a problem I have.  What's your excuse?


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## GaryMGg (Apr 18, 2007)

> _Originally posted by ctwxlvr_
> <br />
> I have to say if the customer is a "regular" placing an order ...
> If I order a large amount(50+) of one type of kit, I expect to loose 1 to 2% to defects....


Tracy,
I disagree with both these points; as a former retailer, a customer is a customer and a business needs a consistent policy for taking care of customers. Now, there's nothing to stop a retailer from going above and beyond their policy for a good customer but running a business without a plan is like navigating a ship in the dark without a map or compass.
As to defects, I expect 100% of the kits I buy to be 100% defect free in material and correctness, and I expect the vendor to stand behind that. Once I receive the kits and they're correct, any problems I create are mine and I deal with them as best I can. Having said that, on a slimline kit, the question is one of time/energy vs. moving on as to whether it's worth the time to worry about a singular defect. Usually, I'll email the vendor and ask if we can take care of the problem on the next order.
IF I wanted to accept a percent of defects, I'd be in the wholesale business. I believe that's the normal expectation for a relationship between retail and wholesale.

Respectfully,
Gary


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## ctwxlvr (Apr 18, 2007)

Gary, you just stated what I said, only in different words, I consider 50+ of a single kit to be a wholesale buy. and as to a business plan, I treat all of my customers the same, and by policy, to replace an item from from a sale over a year old would be above and beyond my policy, Yet I would do it for a loyal customer, as they are your best advertising you will ever get.


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## GaryMGg (Apr 18, 2007)

Tracy,
Wholesalers are buying kits in the thousands. Wholesale price for 2,000 PSI-style fancy slimlines is $1,340
plus freight, duty, importation, etc. We're paying $1.70 +/- per kit, a little less in 100's.
From my perspective 50 units of one kit isn't wholesale, it's retail inventory for pen making.
Let's say we agree on some things and not others BUT I think we agree in principal on the most important item:
Don't take care of your customer, and your business will let you know.

Gary


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