# Ultra-Shear Mandrel



## qquake (Oct 29, 2020)

Has/does anybody used the Ultra-Shear pen mandrel? It's very pricey. Is it worth $130?









						Ultra-Shear Pen Mandrel System and Precision Pen Turning Bushings
					

If you’ve turned more than a couple pens, you’ve probably noticed that there’s just not much material left on top of the brass tube when you get finished. Any amount of misalignment can show up as brass showing through acrylic or even worse, a complete blow-out. None of the mandrels available on...




					www.woodpeck.com


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## elyk864 (Oct 29, 2020)

qquake said:


> Has/does anybody used the Ultra-Shear pen mandrel? It's very pricey. Is it worth $130?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I haven't tried it, but now I'm interested.


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## magpens (Oct 29, 2020)

Mandrels of any kind no longer interest me very much since my "conversion" to TBC.

I don't get the sales pitch for this one ....

"If you’ve turned more than a couple pens, you’ve probably noticed that there’s just not much material left on top of the brass tube when you get finished. Any amount of misalignment can show up as brass showing through acrylic or even worse, a complete blow-out. None of the mandrels available on the market today seem to help matters much, until now. Introducing the Ultra-Shear Pen Mandrel System. Each component is designed and manufactured with one goal…keeping your pen perfectly centered on your lathe.  Mandrel utilizes a #2 morse taper."


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## carlmorrell (Oct 29, 2020)

I have it.  It's well made.  Not sure if it is worth it, since I consider a mandrel to be a consumable.  However, my last one lasted many years and did not need replacing.  Funny how woodpeck thinks you only need about 15 sets of bushings.  I wish that was the case. I must have 100 sets. 

Also, it's a "mandrel saver" type tailpiece.  I abandoned that years ago, and went back to a live center.  It's an adjustment for me.


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## qquake (Oct 29, 2020)

One thing I don't like about it, is it uses a mandrel saver style live center in the tail stock. Those have never worked for me.


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## KenB259 (Oct 29, 2020)

qquake said:


> One thing I don't like about it, is it uses a mandrel saver style live center in the tail stock. Those have never worked for me.


It's all about precision. If the mandrel shaft fits sloppy in the mandrel saver, you won't get good and repeatable results. I wouldn't be without my mandrel saver.


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## leehljp (Oct 29, 2020)

Jim, I remember a few months ago that you wrote you didn't want to have to learn anything new. Did you change your mind?   There is a more accurate way, and much more simple with less complications. It's not that one has to learn anything new, it is that one just needs to "unlearn" complicated things. 

If you do not want to use a mandrel saver type of live center in the tail stock, here is a Whiteside that does NOT use that type of tail stock:








						Whiteside - Pro Pen Mandrel #2 MT
					

Gone are the days of off-centered turnings and the need for spacers for those shorter projects. The Whiteside Pro Pen Mandrel system incorporates similar technology used on today’s most modern CNC machines. This technology allows for a superior hold on the mandrel, while providing quick, easy...




					www.woodcraft.com
				




Whiteside makes top of the line router bits. Their machining is excellent.


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## Kenny Durrant (Oct 29, 2020)

I don’t have that particular mandrel but I have the PSI Mandrel Saver. I’ve had it several years and it seems I paid about $60-$80 for it. It took a lot of getting used to and I even stopped using it for a while. My issues was putting enough pressure on the blank to keep it from slipping. Most of that problem was me being too aggressive and dull tools. Now that’s all I use and the main benefit I get is not having to shim up the space from the bushing to the nut. That’s the nut on the end of the mandrel not the one operating the lathe!


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## dogcatcher (Oct 29, 2020)

It is a collet chuck with a mandrel saver.   The PSI version for the headstock  $35 

The mandrel saver for the tailstock.   $19  

Is the Woodpecker version that much more precise?


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## Jarod888 (Oct 29, 2020)

Woodpecker products are made in the USA. They've built their business on single run, ultra high quality tools. As they've grown and depending on popularity, some of their one-time-tools make it to stock status. They also produce some items that are predestined to be standard stock items.  If you appreciate innovative, well made tools and can afford them, I would highly recommend woodpeckers.


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## RobS (Oct 29, 2020)

I've been waiting for more info on it, but no one has posted anything.  

However, I was getting a lot of misalignment on the tail stock end.  So I ordered the system.  Since placing the order, I discovered, it had a lot to do with how square the ends are.

So I ordered the Woodpecker system, and it just arrived, hope to use it in the next two weeks on my jet 1221vs.

The bushings are turned to a greater precision, and the rod is centerless ground for greater precision, and each end has an ER collet style interface (which is slick)!

It is similar to using a beall er32 collet holder, with a mandrel shaft and a mandrel saver in the tail stock.

However, my mandrel saver had a lot of slop in it, and the standard off the shelf shafts have slop to them as well.

The Woodpecker system, appears to have no slop in comparison, when I was inspecting it last night, the rod was dead straight!  

I also ordered a spare rod to use with my Rick Herrell rherrell Sanding jig

All in all, the Woodpecker system is cheaper than buying an ER-32 collet chuck, rod and mandrel saver, and provides greater precision.  

Lets see how it turns this weekend.
RobS


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## TonyL (Oct 29, 2020)

I am a TBC guy too, but I am likely to turn more two barrel pens if I can turn them together. I bought it. We will see.


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## KenB259 (Oct 29, 2020)

I have one and I absolutely love it. I have no problem paying more for quality. I am getting closer to retirement and my plan is to carry this hobby well into retirement. That’s why I am buying tools I may not be able to afford when no longer working. Woodpeckers tools scream quality. 


Sent from my iPhone using Penturners.org mobile app


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## RobS (Oct 29, 2020)

KenB259 said:


> I have one and I absolutely love it. I have no problem paying more for quality. I am getting closer to retirement and my plan is to carry this hobby well into retirement. That’s why I am buying tools I may not be able to afford when no longer working. Woodpeckers tools scream quality.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Penturners.org mobile app


Totally agree with you.  I hope you are able to stock up on all the pricey long life items now


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## Alchemist (Oct 29, 2020)

Interesting... my opinion is this... I used to use a live center with mandrel kit. Now, I use a mandrel saver. I went back to live center, then back to the mandrel saver. Considering my situation, I like the mandrel saver more. I put it in the tail stock and that’s that. I have found that I tend to smash the mandrel into the live center way too often. The saver, let’s me get nice and comfortable. All in all, I’m thinking that the 11 set bushing for $120(?) is bit cray-cray, but I destroy bushings all the time.


Sent from my iPhone using Penturners.org mobile app


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## bassen (Oct 29, 2020)

magpens said:


> Mandrels of any kind no longer interest me very much since my "conversion" to TBC.
> 
> I don't get the sales pitch for this one ....
> 
> "If you’ve turned more than a couple pens, you’ve probably noticed that there’s just not much material left on top of the brass tube when you get finished. Any amount of misalignment can show up as brass showing through acrylic or even worse, a complete blow-out. None of the mandrels available on the market today seem to help matters much, until now. Introducing the Ultra-Shear Pen Mandrel System. Each component is designed and manufactured with one goal…keeping your pen perfectly centered on your lathe.  Mandrel utilizes a #2 morse taper."


TBC?


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## bassen (Oct 29, 2020)

leehljp said:


> Jim, I remember a few months ago that you wrote you didn't want to have to learn anything new. Did you change your mind?   There is a more accurate way, and much more simple with less complications. It's not that one has to learn anything new, it is that one just needs to "unlearn" complicated things.
> 
> If you do not want to use a mandrel saver type of live center in the tail stock, here is a Whiteside that does NOT use that type of tail stock:
> 
> ...


Have this and dont think there is anything much better


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## qquake (Oct 29, 2020)

leehljp said:


> Jim, I remember a few months ago that you wrote you didn't want to have to learn anything new. Did you change your mind?   There is a more accurate way, and much more simple with less complications. It's not that one has to learn anything new, it is that one just needs to "unlearn" complicated things.
> 
> If you do not want to use a mandrel saver type of live center in the tail stock, here is a Whiteside that does NOT use that type of tail stock:
> 
> ...


This isn't learning something new to me, since I use a mandrel/bushings now. It's more a matter of a better tool than a different method. Plus, I am a tool whore - I love tools! I currently use the Whiteside mandrel. I like that it's adjustable; I used to use the PSI adjustable mandrel. I only ever turn one body at a time, even with two body pens. I get less "rod whip" that way. I guess with the Ultra-Shear mandrel, I was thinking it might be more accurate.


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## qquake (Oct 29, 2020)

Kenny Durrant said:


> I don’t have that particular mandrel but I have the PSI Mandrel Saver. I’ve had it several years and it seems I paid about $60-$80 for it. It took a lot of getting used to and I even stopped using it for a while. My issues was putting enough pressure on the blank to keep it from slipping. Most of that problem was me being too aggressive and dull tools. Now that’s all I use and the main benefit I get is not having to shim up the space from the bushing to the nut. That’s the nut on the end of the mandrel not the one operating the lathe!


That's exactly my problem with the mandrel saver. I'm usually too aggressive, and I can't stop the blank from slipping. I have gone back and tried the mandrel saver several times over the years, always with the same results. I have two savers, one from PSI and one from CSUSA.


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## magpens (Oct 29, 2020)

bassen said:


> TBC?



Sorry .... should have spelled it out .... TBC = Turning Between Centers

Dead (or fixed) center in the headstock, live (or rotating) center in the tailstock ,,,,

.... the blank is held between the pointed ends of the centers and rotated (lathe motor on). . You hold the cutting tool normally.
You use a digital caliper to check the diameter of your blank frequently ( switch lathe off to make these measurements).
No bushings are used.

There are many references to this method of turning on IAP with many folks favoring this method. . You can do a search for further details.


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## qquake (Oct 29, 2020)

dogcatcher said:


> It is a collet chuck with a mandrel saver.   The PSI version for the headstock  $35
> 
> The mandrel saver for the tailstock.   $19
> 
> Is the Woodpecker version that much more precise?


I have a collet chuck set from Woodcraft, and used to use it for turning pens. But it's big, and using the collet wrenches to tighten and loosen it is kind of fiddly. I used it so I could adjust the length of the shaft. When the PSI adjustable mandrel came out, I switched to it.


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## qquake (Oct 29, 2020)

RobS said:


> I've been waiting for more info on it, but no one has posted anything.
> 
> However, I was getting a lot of misalignment on the tail stock end.  So I ordered the system.  Since placing the order, I discovered, it had a lot to do with how square the ends are.
> 
> ...


Looking forward to hearing about your experience with it.


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## leehljp (Oct 29, 2020)

bassen said:


> TBC?


TBC - as mentioned "Turning Between Centers" or turning without using a mandrel . . . therefore eliminating problems often associated with mandrels of different kinds.


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## qquake (Oct 29, 2020)

The closest I've done with TBC, was on a Kaleidoscope pen from Woodcraft. They were out of the bushings, but I needed to make the pen while my sister was here visiting. So I used a smaller bushing on the wide end, and a cone shaped Delrin bushing on the narrow end. Then measured both ends with a digital caliper as I turned it. It worked, but was too much for me to want to do regularly.


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## PenPal (Oct 30, 2020)

qquake said:


> The closest I've done with TBC, was on a Kaleidoscope pen from Woodcraft. They were out of the bushings, but I needed to make the pen while my sister was here visiting. So I used a smaller bushing on the wide end, and a cone shaped Delrin bushing on the narrow end. Then measured both ends with a digital caliper as I turned it. It worked, but was too much for me to want to do regularly.


I do this every pen I am Caliper bound I made enquiries a few days ago and looked at sophisticated calipers ,my problem I use the ones electronic I have without batteries because the fool things chew them ,spit them out ,the estimate was 600 big ones for the ones I favoured. Spent big on an adjustable reamer for slims,want a shock learn how the made in Sheffield guys get rich. So far only reamed a few got thoroughly brassed off with the variations in brasses ,coatings on tips, tops etc. One further step I hope to improve my pressing after all these years. Kind regards Peter. PS I made my own mandrel savers for donkeys cutting the final hole in them using tiny endmills kicked over on a slight angle buying the drill just under by caliper measure. The engineering shop I haunt is dynamite charging but only stock beaut engineering. Then comes the bleeding revolution in mandrel sizes,I love mandrel use still guess I am like one of my progenitors from Ireland To be sure,To be sure,for me it pays off in spades. I check every brass I use against components. Kind regards in your search for the holy grail. Incidentally  good luck.


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## RobS (Oct 31, 2020)

Ok wife gave me 30min in the garage which turned into 45.

bottom line love it!  Reduced the chatter I was seeing on the tailstock end when I was using a mandrel saver.

Pictures attached. Straight off the lathe, no sanding.


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## qquake (Oct 31, 2020)

Is it worth $130?


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## RobS (Oct 31, 2020)

1) yes...I’m not running a beast of a lathe whose tailstock is dead nuts. I’m running a jet 1221vs that is close but there is play that allows for misalignment. The way this system locks up it allows my Tailstock to align true before I lock it down. If you are running a powermatic, robust or oneway you likely have no worries.

however the mandrel saver I had also had play. This system locks down with zero play. 
2) made and designed here in the USA
3) the centerleas ground chromoly rod fits perfect

I’m glad I spent the money. Especially when  running the high end unique aluminum honeycomb blanks or others that require a smooth trued up run.


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## qquake (Oct 31, 2020)

Hmm, I'll have to look closer at it. Although I also have a 1221VS, although I haven't had any alignment issues.


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## qquake (Oct 31, 2020)

Something just occurred to me. If it's a mandrel saver style, how do you lock down the tailstock and the tail end collet and keep everything aligned?


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## RobS (Oct 31, 2020)

The front ER style collet uses a nut with knurling, that locks it down.
The tailstock side uses compression to induce the lock. So by pushing everything together it self aligns, then I lock the tailstock base,  bring it to speed and dial in the tailstock quill untill I get the compression I want and lock that.


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## qquake (Oct 31, 2020)

RobS said:


> The front ER style collet uses a nut with knurling, that locks it down.
> The tailstock side uses compression to induce the lock. So by pushing everything together it self aligns, then I lock the tailstock base,  bring it to speed and dial in the tailstock quill untill I get the compression I want and lock that.


I didn't notice that. So there are no threads on the tailstock collet, it's pressure from the tailstock pushing on it that keeps it tight. Interesting.


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## egnald (Oct 31, 2020)

I have a variation of this that I got from WoodTurningz called a Live Center/Mandrel Saver with Collet for $65. I already have a collet based mandrel for the headstock side from PSI. The combination sounds functionally similar to the Ultra-Shear, but if I didn't already have this, knowing the quality of the WoodPeckers brand, I wouldn't be concerned with spending $130. - Dave


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## qquake (Oct 31, 2020)

egnald said:


> I have a variation of this that I got from WoodTurningz called a Live Center/Mandrel Saver with Collet for $65. I already have a collet based mandrel for the headstock side from PSI. The combination sounds functionally similar to the Ultra-Shear, but if I didn't already have this, knowing the quality of the WoodPeckers brand, I wouldn't be concerned with spending $130. - Dave


Looks like the same idea, but more crude.






						Live Center/Mandrel Saver Body w/ Collet - WoodTurningz
					

The Live Center/Mandrel Saver Body with Collet (GCLCOLLET) from Hold-Fast just may be the last one you’ll ever need to buy. Two features make this product outstanding. First, it’s precision bearings* are built to last, run smoothly, and quietly. Second, the use of a collet to hold the mandrel...




					www.woodturningz.com


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## RobS (Oct 31, 2020)

qquake said:


> I didn't notice that. So there are no threads on the tailstock collet, it's pressure from the tailstock pushing on it that keeps it tight. Interesting.


Correct. The tail stock pressure locks the rear collet down around the shaft.


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## qquake (Oct 31, 2020)

RobS said:


> Correct. The tail stock pressure locks the rear collet down around the shaft.


And you haven't had any problems with the blank spinning?


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## RobS (Oct 31, 2020)

qquake said:


> And you haven't had any problems with the blank spinning?


No I got it to slow down a little so I tightened up the quill then no issue, and I took some heavy cuts. Unlike the mandrel saver the ultra-shear has a larger face to interface with the bushing. So you get more contact.


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## qquake (Nov 1, 2020)

Well, I was going to order one, but with tax and shipping it would be $150. That's an awful lot for a mandrel.


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## TonyL (Nov 6, 2020)

I used mine for the first time tonight. I turned a Jr George. I like the tool. It is the first time I used a mandrel in over 5 years; I TBC.
It was nice to turn two barrels at a time. I did buy some of the bushings, but that is not necessary.

I do not think a mandrel can reduce run out as you move further from the headstock (you machinist and engineers would know).

It suited my budget; it is more durably made, but I don't know if a more durable mandrel is needed. I do use very sharp tools, and therefore don't have to apply as much pressure on the blank/mandrel. I like it, but I think it is one of those tools where the turner decides.

After sliding the steel bushings off, I installed by CA bushings and more quickly completed the pen. To each his own.

Have a great w/e!


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## ajpischke (Nov 11, 2020)

carlmorrell said:


> I have it.  It's well made.  Not sure if it is worth it, since I consider a mandrel to be a consumable.  However, my last one lasted many years and did not need replacing.  Funny how woodpeck thinks you only need about 15 sets of bushings.  I wish that was the case. I must have 100 sets.
> 
> Also, it's a "mandrel saver" type tailpiece.  I abandoned that years ago, and went back to a live center.  It's an adjustment for me.


I absolutely agree. When I rewatched the video & saw that it was pressure from tailstock keeping force on bushings ie friction via separate, independent source—not part of headstock mandrel. Inevitably, unless Woodpeckers magically changes Newton’s 3rd law. The tailstock “clamping” to mandrel may actually magnify the inevitable distortion of mandrel (as anything under compression will flex eventually). The only way any mandrel saver mechanism will save the shaft is if the shaft is literally 100% noncompressable, ie a fluid.

Somehow you have to keep bushings pressed hard enough to have friction do it’s job to keep blanks from spinning, and having a separate force exerting, not supporting (like cone live center) is going to mess up your universe after shelling out that dough.


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## Paul in OKC (Nov 11, 2020)

leehljp said:


> Jim, I remember a few months ago that you wrote you didn't want to have to learn anything new. Did you change your mind?   There is a more accurate way, and much more simple with less complications. It's not that one has to learn anything new, it is that one just needs to "unlearn" complicated things.
> 
> If you do not want to use a mandrel saver type of live center in the tail stock, here is a Whiteside that does NOT use that type of tail stock:
> 
> ...


I am a regular mandrel guy for most of my turning, have been for 20+ years. Some between centers. I like the idea of this more than anything I have seen, myself, to be able to shorten the mandrel when needed. I like the live center, and still do not believe that 'misaligned' tailstock (minor misalignment) causes issues. Someone mentioned above about the ends being square, I think this gives more trouble than we think for many.


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## shastastan (Dec 9, 2020)

I decided to give it a try.  I haven't turned any pens using the TBC method.  The mandrels that I have used and mandrel saver have always had run out and vibration.  I'm using a Laguna revo 12-16.  The ultra shear has solved the problem.  Yes, it's not cheap, but the quality is the usual Woodpecker quality.  I didn't buy their bushings package, but bought some stainless steel bushings for slimline pens instead.  One place where I tried to buy was out of stock so I bought on Amazon for $154.  With Covid going and being close to Christmas, shipping is "iffy" to get things in a week or less.  I decided to make some stuff a little late, but pens can be done pretty quickly and are a good choice of "last minute" gifts.  I'm glad that I bought the ultra shear mandrel setup.


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## sbeebs66 (Jul 16, 2021)

So for those of you who have bought the ultra-shear mandrel, how are they. also would it be worth investing in their bushings or are normal ones you get from PSI/Rockler/ect. work well enough? Thanks.


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## RobS (Jul 16, 2021)

I love mine.  I’m glad I bought it. I would buy it again.  I have the few bushing they have that apply to the kits I make. But I also use it with the other pai bushings that they don’t have.


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