# Dragon Pen Blank I'm working on. WIP



## Ted Sachs

I've been toying with finding a way to make a good Dragon pen blank and so far this is about the best on yet, but I have an idea that I'm going to try on the next one that may make it look even better. Here's what I have waiting to be cast. I'm trying to get a scales look to the wrap. I think I need to extend the yellow and light green portion some at the top of each of the scales to get a more gradient look to the scale.  Also, I may wrap it where you see the black outline for the shadow of the scale above it a lot more pronounced than it came out in this one.

Ideas and critique are always welcomed.


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## magpens

Beautiful !! . That looks like many hours of knowing with absolute certainty exactly what you're doing !!


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## Skie_M

Absolutely stunning, and it isn't even cast or finished yet!


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## Ted Sachs

While figuring out a different pattern, I had a revelation on this pattern that will make this one posted look like child's play.  I now know exactly how to get the transition I was looking for.  I have some long lengths of tubing coming in that I want to wrap on since the Dragon pen is a two tube pen. This way I can wrap one long length and cut the two pieces from that and have a perfect match.  Yea, that's the ticket.


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## Skie_M

While you're at it, more colors in the mix to make it a gradual deepening of the shade? 


A lot of blanks are made exactly to size because of issues that people have run into trying to cut through a design on the tube ...

It may be easier to wrap your long blank, then give it a few coats of clear protection, and cut the tube prior to casting, rather than casting it first and then trying to cut through the tube.

I wish you luck, whichever road you take!


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## Ted Sachs

I did a practice run on cutting a long cast blank and didn't have a problem with it and things turned out much cleaner overall.  I'm very picky about my end result and this seems to get me where it needs to be to make me happy.  I appreciate the idea though.  I listen to all ideas and usually try them all to find what works best.


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## TurtleTom

I think the black string may be overwhelming the design.  Is there any way to put a thinner thread up?  Then the black to the bottom would be shadow and more convincing.  
I absolutely love what you've done so far.  I'm an old knot tyer, among others here, from way back but I've never tried the decorative fly rod work you do.


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## Ted Sachs

Tom, you are right about the black and I plan on doing the next one tonight using "A" weight thread instead of"D" weight that I used on this one.  This one took about 8 hours to wrap but the next one well take half again as long with the much thinner thread. 

Skie, you hit on exactly what I'm planning to do on this next version.  By going to the thinner thread I can put more resolution in the scales which means I can get a better gradient change in the colours. I can go from the yellow to dark green more gradually and get a much better look.  Now off my Dragon kits come in today I'll be set.


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## Curly

Ted Sachs said:


> While figuring out a different pattern, I had a revelation on this pattern that will make this one posted look like child's play.  I now know exactly how to get the transition I was looking for.  I have some long lengths of tubing coming in that I want to wrap on since the Dragon pen is a two tube pen. This way I can wrap one long length and cut the two pieces from that and have a perfect match.  Yea, that's the ticket.



Your thread wrapping to make blanks is amazing.

Two things you need to consider. 

1) Most kits have 2 diameter sizes of tubes so you need to check to see if the one you are making is the same for both. I don't know if this is the case with the Dragon.

2) Tubes diameters from one seller to another may not have the same wall  thickness and that includes the K&S tubes from the hobby store. This may cause assembly problems in that kit parts may not fit into the tubes or be too loose.


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## Skie_M

Dragon Twist Pen Kit - PSI

Front - 3/8ths dia, 1.45 inches long

Back - 3/8ths dia, 1.6 inches long

A single long tube cut to lengths would work fine.

Pete's caution is still valid, however ... if you plan to do some styles of pen, you have to watch this feature.

For example, PSI's Breast Cancer Awareness Twist Pen Kit ...

8mm lower (front)
3/8ths upper (back)

And any of the high end kits that use a cap that posts ... one tube will fit inside the other so that the cap actually functions.

That's pretty much every single Jr and full size fountain pen on the market.


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## Ted Sachs

There aren't a lot of choices yet for ten inch lengths, but from the choices I do have, if by chance a pen has two different size tube diameters then I will get ten inch lengths of both sizes and do it up like that.  That way I'll be making even more than three pens every time I wrap for one pen. I've already checked wall thicknesses on the brass from K&S and their's is quite a bit thicker. I'm checking on sources for the pen tubes though. I've already made a list of the main pens I planned on doing and their tube sizes and wall thicknesses so I won't make that mistake.  I've even started getting bushing sizes so I'll know how thick I can go with the thread on each pen.


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## jttheclockman

Ted I do not believe you will have much luck finding 10" tubes other than the 10mm. 
Yes I forgot about the slimline tubes 7 and 8mm. I do not make those so that slipped my mine. 
If they are out there I am sure others would love to hear about them too including me. So what does everyone say???


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## Ted Sachs

I got some ten inch tubes in 3/8 diameter from PSI today.  I know they have 7, 8, and 10mms tubes as well.    I'm finding that my idea of using A weight line want the best idea I've come up with. I'm using C weight regular this time around and we'll try the A weight metallic again later.


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## Ted Sachs

After almost sixteen hours of wrapping on a ten inch pen tube here is where I am.  I started out with the thinnest size thread but had to many problems with it breaking off.  I switched to a heavier thread and non metallic just to see what would come out.  It looks good but not what I'm trying for.  I'll have to go back tho the thin thread and be Extra Careful.  It will also mean that this one at sixteen hours will become around thirty hours with thread half as thick.

At this point on this wrap I still have a few more wraps to make them pack all PhD the thread in tight and then I can prep for casting.


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## TurtleTom

Nevertheless, it's still stunning.  I'd like that on a fly rod!


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## Ted Sachs

My father used to fly fish with a Tom many years ago and when I first saw your avatar I had to take a double take. You favor him a lot but I imagine he's a lot older than my memories of him.  He and my dad used to see who could come up with a better fly every time they tied  some. I learned from my dad when I was about eight how to tie flies. Anyway,  Mr Tom wrote a book on tying flies and I was given the original manuscript for it.  His name is Tom Nixon and used to work with my dad many years ago at PPG in Lake Charles, La. 

Thank you sir for the compliment on the work.


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## Charlie_W

Beautiful work for sure! Definitely a talent there!

You might want to look at the Zen pen from Craft Supplies. One long tube with plenty of thickness for on tube casting.


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## magpens

Extremely beautiful !!! . I agree with Charlie ... would like to see that on a Zen.


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## Ted Sachs

Thanks y'all.  I'll see about ordering a couple of them.  Who sells the Zens?


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## Skie_M

Check out the vendors section here at the IAP's Marketplace.  I know Exotic Blanks carries the Zen/Zap pens, but I'm sure other vendors do as well.


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## alphageek

Ted Sachs said:


> Thanks y'all.  I'll see about ordering a couple of them.  Who sells the Zens?



I agree with this and think the Zens would be a perfect kit for this type of thing.   The single longer tube would be fabulous and the relatively "plain" hardware wouldn't draw attention away from the work you're doing.

I'm not sure if you could do it on a slimmer tube or not, but other product that would be interesting (due to a longer tube) is this:
Exotic Blanks :: Other Projects - Kits & Larger Blanks :: Desk Accessories :: Magnifying Glass - European Style - Choose Plating

As a matter of fact,  I have 2 of those kits from exotics that I didn't use and don't have any plans for anytime soon.   If you think you can wrap a slim tube - PM me your mailing address and I'll mail them to you - think of them as a new member gift. :biggrin:    Unfortunately I have used all my zens, or I'd offer you a couple of those too.


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## Ted Sachs

That would be awesome. I know of a couple of patterns that would work on small diameters,  at least I think they will.  Since you are willing to do this, and since you are from my dad's home state, I'll do you one better.  Send them down here and I'll send one back to you wrapped and cast and built as a thank you gift.


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## alphageek

Ted Sachs said:


> That would be awesome. I know of a couple of patterns that would work on small diameters,  at least I think they will.  Since you are willing to do this, and since you are from my dad's home state, I'll do you one better.  Send them down here and I'll send one back to you wrapped and cast and built as a thank you gift.



That would be VERY cool.. But one of your wrapped blanks is worth way more than these couple of kits.   I have some others that you might like too... Will contact you via PM.


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## Ted Sachs

alphageek said:


> Ted Sachs;18064gift43 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That would be awesome. I know of a couple of patterns that would work on small diameters,  at least I think they will.  Since you are willing to do this, and since you are from my dad's home state, I'll do you one better.  Send them down here and I'll send one back to you wrapped and cast and built as a thank you gift.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That would be VERY cool.. But one of your wrapped blanks is worth way more than these couple of kits.   I have some others that you might like too... Will contact you via PM.
Click to expand...


Someone one told me that it wasn't how much the gift cost that counts, but rather the thought that did.  The thought of offering is what meant more to me than the price you paid for the kits. If you want to go by what it actually took money wise, you spent way more money than I will be. Thread really isn't that expensive yet.


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## Skie_M

Don't forget the time you're putting in to each of these .... assuming a master craftsman would expect at least 20 dollars an hour and an apprentice gets at least 10 dollars an hour, (making up numbers, here), you should expect to command a pretty high price for the time you put in to making each blank, shouldn't you?


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## Ted Sachs

I understand what you are saying, and for the most part agree. In this case, though, I'm referring to what out actually cost me out of my pocket.  Another way of looking at it is the advertising aspect.  What better advertising could I get than from about pen Turner? I also take in to account that he offered to send them at no cost at all in the first place and didn't expect anything in return.  There is a lot to be said for that. 

Don'tvery basic pattern get me wrong here.  I'm not in this strictly for the money.  Friends are more valuable to me than money ever could be. The patterns I have in mind are not complex, but rather simple.  I'm thinking that this simple pattern on a long thin tube might look rather elegant instead of on your face, jaw dropping fantastic like I'm trying to get to on some of these other patterns.  Believe it or not, the pattern for the Dragon Skin blank is a beer basic pattern.  What makes it work is the color changes in it and the size I'm doing it at.


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## Ted Sachs

Power is back and I've finished the wrapping on the Dragon Skin. I'm ready now to put  color preserver and then the epoxy. Here's what it looks like do far.


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## Ted Sachs

After the first cost of epoxy it looks pretty darned good.


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## Skie_M

Heh ... yeah, that looks amazing!


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## jttheclockman

Fantastic. I think we all are going to run out of words to describe your work. Another winner. for sure. :good::good::good:


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## Leatherman1998

Amazing work Ted. I love the dragon look.


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## Dale Lynch

I'm green with envy.


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## Ted Sachs

After almost thirty hours of wrapping time I'm almost through with the red dragon skin.  My Simlar should be here Friday and I will have a lot of stuff to cast this weekend. I can't wait to see this stuff cast and turned. Here's the red one with just a few wraps left to close it up and then to pack it and burnish it. I hope to put the first coat of epoxy on it tonight.

For some reason the camera couldn't get a decent picture. I guess it's all of the shiny stuff throwing it off.


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## Ted Sachs

After epoxy it really popped out nicely. That red is killer. This weekend I'll get all of my stuff cast and then it will be time to start massaging the Dragon pen kit.  I've got a lot of work planned for it to make it pop out as well.


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## Skie_M

Absolutely unmitigated ecstasy... that's what I'ld feel if I had a blank like that at my disposal every time I opened my case.


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## junosdad

*'nother option*

Try a Google search for

'dragon scale rod wrap'

Several places have instructions; this search should reveal them.


I'll apologize now 




~Sam


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## Ted Sachs

junosdad said:


> Try a Google search for
> 
> 'dragon scale rod wrap'
> 
> Several places have instructions; this search should reveal them.
> 
> 
> I'll apologize now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Sam


 No need for apologizing for anything here. Those are pretty interesting, and most of them are like mine in that they all use the chevron pattern as the basis for the theme.  There were a couple that were way out there that were really nice, but not the type of wrapping I do.  I'm trying to recreate something that is on the pen already to some degree and using the colors that I'll be using on the pen kit when I "massage" it.

I'm trying to figure out what you were apologizing for.



Edit:  Was it that you were revealing plans on how to do this wrap?  There's no need for that, I'll explain thread by thread on any pattern I do to anyone wanting to learn to do this. If you are in the Houston area I'll invite you over and teach you first hand on wrapping and I'll even make a copy of my pattern book I've been making. Shoot, I WANT people to learn this art. I might have ten or so years left wrapping and then if no one picks this up it dies until the next idiot,,, uh person tries to mesh the two skills. I love what I do and I love teaching what I do. There is no problem with others learning what I'm doing.


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## Jack Parker

One word, WOW!!!


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## jttheclockman

Once again Ted that is a winner. What color preserver are you using before the epoxy???  Thanks.


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## Ted Sachs

On this blank I didn't use any color preserver.


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## magpens

Superb work, Ted !!!!! . What tube size did you use for the red dragon ? . And what pen kit will you use, if you know yet ?


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## Ted Sachs

I used 3/8" tubing, which is what comes with the Dragon kit from PSI.  I used a ten inch length of tubing so that I can cast the whole length and then cut it to size for three pens.  I promised my daughter one, I'm doing one and I'll have one for sale.  I'm doing my daughter's pen stock, but plan on doing a bit extra to mine. Many years ago I had another hobby, scale modeling. I plan on cleaning up this kit considerably and then getting out the oil paints and painting up the Dragon kit in much the same way we did figures for contests. I used to compete in the scale model contests country wide and did a pretty good job of it winning Regional and National events.  I was mostly in to modern aircraft, but did do almost all of the different categories at one time or another.  I'm not as good at it as I was as it is a perishable skill and I haven't kept up with it at all.  We'll see what I have left in it though.


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## jttheclockman

I find it a bit odd that you can cut into a pattern and have it look symetrical??? Is that no problem? I am also assuming then that you are not doing a typical rod sequence where you start and end the threads under others and tie them off. ???


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## Ted Sachs

I do cut them at certain areas of the pattern and on this pattern the starting areas are close together since its a repeat pattern that is small.  I start and stop all of my threads off of the tube on the dowel rod that is used as a mandrel. Once the wrap is complete I"ll epoxy the pattern and tube. After the epoxy dries I can cut it off of the dowel rod just about an eighth of an inch past the tube and cast that whole thing at one time. After the casting is dry I can cut it on the sled I have and cut it about a sixteenth long and then square up each end taking off about a thirty second of an inch.  When you get the blank it's already to length and squared up.


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## liljohn1368

You do really nice work. I have a few ideas that Im thinking about playing around with as soon as I get a pressure pot.


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## Draconias

You have opened up the possibilities for me.  I have been playing around making fishing bobbers from wine corks.  I picked up some thread and bobbins and have been wrapping the bobbers.  I have a dragon kit and I am going to try my hand an wrapping it now, lol.  I am thinking of making a few small wooden plugs to plug the ends of the tubes (after filling with BBs (to weigh down the blank in PR).  Then press in a straight pin on both ends to tie the thread to.  I'll see if this method works  

Thanks for blazing the trail on this technique
Ron


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## Fish30114

Man this is a cool application for 'wrapping' I built a few fishing rods back in the day, but never thought about taking my wrapping to this hobby(obsession) If you still need the tubes for a Zen pen to wrap I have several extra Zen tubes, if you shoot me your address I'd be happy to send you some. 
Is it possible to have a rounded end to either side of your wrapping?? I was just thinking a dragon scale (who really knows) would be more realistic if it had more of a teardrop shape.....I love your stuff and will be anxious to see where you end up on this journey!

Good on ya!


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## Ted Sachs

I'm trying to figure out a wrap like that now with a rounded bottom to it and getting close to it.


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## Fish30114

Damn brother, if you even get close I would love to get in line to buy a couple of blanks like that for you--preferably for a cigar pen--2 tubes :wink:

Good luck and nice going!!!


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## Ted Sachs

Ok y'all, I've been steady working on all kinds of things lately trying to get all of the little problems I've been having worked out and I think I'm finally there. In the meantime when things got really frustrating and I had to take a break I started working on the display stand I want to build for the Dragon pen.  I'm sure a lot of y'all saw the target stand I made for my bullet pens. Well, I think I have something that will be rather unique for this pen.  The pen I'm working on for myself will be a red dragon and for a display base try to imagine a stand that has a pair of dragon wings made in to the base and where the two wings meet will be a clear plexiglas U-shaped cradle for the pen to rest in.  The wings will be attached to the base, and the base itself will look like a mountain top. Through the years I've had many hobbies, one of which was model railroading. The mountain part will be easy enough. The wings will have a brass rod skeleton covered with paper towel soaked in a mix of white glue and water and stretched across the skeleton.  Anyway, here's a few pics of the wings so far. I've now got them primed and will start airbrushing them after all of the Thanksgiving festivities are through here.


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## Skie_M

I like the detail added to the wing claw there ...


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## jttheclockman

Looking good Ted. I was wondering where you were. Just a little heads up. On this site every Feb. there is a Bash party that happens all month long. There are many different contests and plenty of prizes. This year a new catagory will happen and it is a contest for the best Pen Stand. You may want to save one of your next ideas for that contest and give it a try. The key though is the stand can not be seen anywhere on the net. You may also want to check out some of the other contests and I bet you can do really well in them. I like your way of thinking. Keep posting.


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## Ted Sachs

Fish30114 said:


> Damn brother, if you even get close I would love to get in line to buy a couple of blanks like that for you--preferably for a cigar pen--2 tubes :wink:
> 
> Good luck and nice going!!!



I just got this pattern that I'm going to try for the Dragon scales.


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## Ted Sachs

jttheclockman said:


> Looking good Ted. I was wondering where you were. Just a little heads up. On this site every Feb. there is a Bash party that happens all month long. There are many different contests and plenty of prizes. This year a new catagory will happen and it is a contest for the best Pen Stand. You may want to save one of your next ideas for that contest and give it a try. The key though is the stand can not be seen anywhere on the net. You may also want to check out some of the other contests and I bet you can do really well in them. I like your way of thinking. Keep posting.



I've been working out all of the little problems I was having trying to get a good cast consistently.  I finally narrowed most of the problems to the color preserver I was using.  I have changed over to a new thread (new to me at least since it wasn't around when I built rods) that doesn't need color preserver. This new thread is much thinner than what I've been using so now I have to wrap three times as many windings around a tube as before, but all is good and the color is way more vibrant looking now.  Here's a shot of what I'm almost through with on this tube.

Each color band on this pattern is eight threads wide so that gives you an idea of just how thin this thread is.


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## magpens

That last picture shows truly amazing work on your part, Ted.  Words are inadequate.
You seem to have the patience of Job multiplied over and over !!!


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## jttheclockman

Ted, that last pattern is really cool but then again so are all the rest you have shown. I guess this is a lot like segmenting a pen blank in that the sky is the limit and it keeps your interest. keep them coming. Never get tired of looking at your work. Truely amazing.


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