# Question about shop heater?



## navycop (Dec 3, 2010)

I was going to install an overhead space heater type thing in my shop. I have seen them in other shops such as mechanic bays. My question is: Will the dust from turning and sawing ignite the coils??


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## phillywood (Dec 3, 2010)

yes.


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## Mike of the North (Dec 3, 2010)

A place to look for garage/shop answers is the web site. http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/


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## navycop (Dec 3, 2010)

Sorry for the re-post. I just checked the libary and found a heater post on there. Go ahead and dawg the new guy...


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## gregs4163 (Dec 3, 2010)

This is the one I own it is made for the shop, it has sealed coils so it explosion/fire proof. It can be mounted to the ceiling, wall or used as a portable and has a built in thermostat. 


http://www.heateroutlet.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=112&idcategory=26


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## rherrell (Dec 3, 2010)

I have this one.......
http://store.h-mac.com/mohotdahd45b.html

I run it on propane and it has seperated combustion, fancy name for "it gets its air from outside." I run it for 45 min. on cold mornings and it knocks down the chill enough that I can then run my electric heat.
I absolutely love it but you'll go broke buying propane if you run it all day.:wink:


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## Don Wade (Dec 3, 2010)

I use the oil filled radiator type electric heaters.  I leave them on all the time on low at night in the winter and they keep the ambient temp very pleasant and are very safe.


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## Russianwolf (Dec 3, 2010)

If anyone has a documented case of a home shop having an wood dust explosion/fire, I'd like to see it.


The dust saturation amounts needed in the air to get combustion going are incredible. I've never even seen one in the shop DC units so getting it in open air is about impossible as far as I can figure.


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## Jgrden (Dec 3, 2010)

rherrell said:


> I have this one.......
> http://store.h-mac.com/mohotdahd45b.html
> 
> I run it on propane and it has seperated combustion, fancy name for "it gets its air from outside." I run it for 45 min. on cold mornings and it knocks down the chill enough that I can then run my electric heat.
> I absolutely love it but you'll go broke buying propane if you run it all day.:wink:


Rick, we have a portable one of those you just described. I am not sure we are using it correctly. We never feel any radiant hear yet know the coils are warm to hot. What is the theory behind these little guys.


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## Nikitas (Dec 3, 2010)

This has been discussed over and over on other forums as well, Mike is right about the dust in the air. I use a wood stove for heat and have for years. Just my .02 worth....
Brian


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## BigguyZ (Dec 3, 2010)

Mythbusters did a thing about dust and starting a fire.  They had an open flame and tried to get the stuff to light, and they were unable to create any type of fire/ explosion.

It's not impossible, I'm sure, but the chances of it happening are highly over-hyped.


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## rherrell (Dec 4, 2010)

Jgrden said:


> rherrell said:
> 
> 
> > I have this one.......
> ...


 
The theory is that it heats up the coils from the inside and then a fan blows over the top of the heated coils and produces heat. Do you have a fan on the back of yours? Mine throws out MASSIVE amounts of heat. My shop is 700 sq. ft. and on mornings when it's freezing outside I can heat the shop to 65 deg. in 45 min..
I should say that I keep my shop at above freezing (35 deg.) with my electric heat overnight and my propane heat is on a thermostat that comes on at 6:45 am and goes off at 7:30 am.


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## Jgrden (Dec 4, 2010)

rherrell said:


> Jgrden said:
> 
> 
> > rherrell said:
> ...


Nope, no fan. Mine must be a cheap rig.


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## sbwertz (Dec 4, 2010)

Don Wade said:


> I use the oil filled radiator type electric heaters. I leave them on all the time on low at night in the winter and they keep the ambient temp very pleasant and are very safe.


 
That is what I use too.


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## sbwertz (Dec 4, 2010)

BigguyZ said:


> Mythbusters did a thing about dust and starting a fire. They had an open flame and tried to get the stuff to light, and they were unable to create any type of fire/ explosion.
> 
> It's not impossible, I'm sure, but the chances of it happening are highly over-hyped.


 
When I was a teenager, I shook a vacuum cleaner bag into a burning trash barrel.  It knocked me back ten feet, burned off my bangs and eyebrows, and opened up the 55 gallon drum like  a daisy.


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## Padre (Dec 4, 2010)

I use a natural gas Hot Dawg.  No problems.  I love it.


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## navycop (Dec 5, 2010)

This is kind of what I was looking for: http://www.mrheater.com/product.aspx?catid=50&id=40


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## BigguyZ (Dec 6, 2010)

I bought a forced air Kerosene heater.  It get's the shop pretty warm pretty quickly.  Unfortunately, the model I got doesn't have a thermostat.  So I have to turn it on and off mysefl.  With the garage door uninsulated, the heat leaves pretty quickly.  So my next step is to insulate the garage door.  I'm thinking another heater to act as a "maintenance" heater wouldn't be bad.  One to heat up quickly, another to maintain a consistent temp.


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## Russianwolf (Dec 6, 2010)

to highjack this in a slightly different direction.

I'm thinking of getting one of the kerosene torpedo heaters. My concern is CO output. Is this something I need to be concerned with on a new unit. With my shop being in the basement, I'm not willing to take a chance with my family upstairs.


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## BigguyZ (Dec 6, 2010)

Russianwolf said:


> to highjack this in a slightly different direction.
> 
> I'm thinking of getting one of the kerosene torpedo heaters. My concern is CO output. Is this something I need to be concerned with on a new unit. With my shop being in the basement, I'm not willing to take a chance with my family upstairs.




According to the manual, there's minimal worry about that.  They say it's safe for indoors use with minimal ventilation.  They reccomend about 3 sq feet of ventilation per 100,000 BTU output.  So for my little 45,000 BTU heater, I only need about 1.5 sq feet of ventilation.  So I figured one open window will suffice.


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## Russianwolf (Dec 6, 2010)

BigguyZ said:


> Russianwolf said:
> 
> 
> > to highjack this in a slightly different direction.
> ...


How's the odor, or should I opt for the propane version? (no chance of fuel spills that way).


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## snyiper (Dec 6, 2010)

I have a torpedo Propane heater and it heats well and fast I have a 2 car garage/shop and about 20 min running it is toasty but it puts a hurting on a 20 lb bottle. Fumes are ok I dont notice any just the bunt type you would get from a grill. It has been a while since I used it it needs a lot of clear space to operate great to warm a room a bit overkill to keep running.


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## Dave Turner (Dec 6, 2010)

For a shop in a separate building or in the garage, I think the torpedo style heaters or the mounted propane heater (http://www.mrheater.com/product.aspx?catid=50&id=40 )are great.  We have the mounted propane heater in my in-law's garage and it puts out massive amounts of heat and is very convenient to use.

For a basement shop, I think it's a completely different story. I would never install a combustible-style heater in a living space unless it was vented to the outside. If you do, you are gambling that you have sufficient ventilation to dilute the generated carbon monoxide. If something happens to the burners and they become less efficient, they can generate a lot more carbon monoxide and quickly overwhelm the small amount of "normally required" ventilation that you provide. It's just too risky to use in a living space.  For safety's sake, either use a vented heating system or go with electric heating in the basement.​


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## BigguyZ (Dec 6, 2010)

The fumes for the Kerosene heater is noticable, but you get used to it pretty quickly.


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## n7bsn (Dec 6, 2010)

Dave Turner said:


> ...
> 
> For a basement shop, I think it's a completely different story....  For safety's sake, either use a vented heating system or go with electric heating in the basement.​



I am certainly no expert on every building/fire-code, but propane (or any other combustable fuel that is heavier then air) is forbidden in the ones I do know.

As for a basement shop, I would talk to people like my insurance company before adding either a propane or  kerosene direct-vent into a living space.

Personally, I currently use a 220V@30 amp 6KW heater, this will be swapped next year for a mini-split heat-pump

TTFN
Ralph


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## IPD_Mrs (Dec 6, 2010)

Something that I think should be emphasized is insulation.  Insulation will make all the difference in the world.  Some of you have said you can get your garage nice and warm in a matter of minutes with different heaters.  You also say it cools off pretty quickly.  When we built our current home we made sure the walls of the garage were well insulated.  There is one outside wall and of course the garage door.  The first year we were still pretty cold in the garage during the cold winter months.  Our door is aluminum and is sectioned in panels.  we went to Lowes and bought some of the blue insulating styrofoam and it has made a world of difference.  Right now the outside temp is 12 with a below 0 wind chill.  It is running about 70 in the garage right now with two oil filled electric heaters on medium.


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## navycop (Dec 6, 2010)

MLKWoodWorking said:


> Something that I think should be emphasized is insulation. Insulation will make all the difference in the world. Some of you have said you can get your garage nice and warm in a matter of minutes with different heaters. You also say it cools off pretty quickly. When we built our current home we made sure the walls of the garage were well insulated. There is one outside wall and of course the garage door.


 
Does the dimensions matter also (lenght x width x height)?


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## ctubbs (Dec 7, 2010)

The torpedo heaters have been used on construction sites for years.  I'd rather be cold.  The fumes from the combustion give me a roaring headache that last for a couple hours after I get out of the area.  YMMV.  Probably will vary.
Charles


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## IPD_Mrs (Dec 7, 2010)

navycop said:


> Does the dimensions matter also (lenght x width x height)?


 
Not too sure what you mean by dimensions.  Ours is a 2-1/2 car garage.  We cut the insulating foam to fit in the garage door panels.  They actually just pop into the frame.  I could probably make it better with some of the insulating tape they use on HVAC duct work.


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## navycop (Dec 7, 2010)

MLKWoodWorking said:


> navycop said:
> 
> 
> > Does the dimensions matter also (lenght x width x height)?
> ...


 I was wondering if the square footage of a shop made an impact on the size/amount of heat you got from a heater.


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## IPD_Mrs (Dec 7, 2010)

Well whatever a 2-1/2 car garage is 30 x 20 or so.  Heated with two oil filled heaters, one on medium and the other on high.  Nine degrees outside and it is 68 or 69 in the garage.


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## ctubbs (Dec 7, 2010)

Mike, this month's 'Woodcraft' mag has an article on this exact question.  They do not give exact info on brands of heaters but the data is still good.  The square footage is not how to figure heat load, you need cubic feet of heated space to determine the quanity of heat needed to maintain the required temp.
You should have a number of local HVAC contractors in your area.  Contact one or more and ask them to look over your shop and make recommendations.  That way you have the help of professionals and then you can make a decision of which way you wish to go, pro installation of do it yourself.  That is my 2cents.
Charles


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## BigguyZ (Dec 8, 2010)

FWIW, the 45,000 BTU torpedo heater I have works very well in my space.  Though I wish I bought the 70,000 model, since it has a built-in thermostat.  Then I could set it and forget it.


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## Mac (Dec 8, 2010)

BigguyZ said:


> Mythbusters did a thing about dust and starting a fire. They had an open flame and tried to get the stuff to light, and they were unable to create any type of fire/ explosion.
> 
> It's not impossible, I'm sure, but the chances of it happening are highly over-hyped.


 
Wonder why they put a blowout roofs on feedmills around here??
Anybody ever sprinkle flour or sugar sub. over a candle or am I the only one that ever did it, in my youth. 
I went with oil filled heater, cause my dust collection is not up to par. I think you should consider your dust buildup before deciding on a heater.


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## Whaler (Dec 8, 2010)

One word of caution burning kerosene puts out a ton of moisture which results in rust as I learned the hard way.


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## BigguyZ (Dec 8, 2010)

Whaler said:


> One word of caution burning kerosene puts out a ton of moisture which results in rust as I learned the hard way.



Now that I have noticed!  My big iron is still at my old shop, but I'll make sure to keep everything well good and waxed to prevent rust.


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## ToddMR (Dec 8, 2010)

I bought a used kerosene heater this year.  Working well.  My garage is pretty good size.  We need to insulate some, but it for sure has helped thus far when temps have been below 20 degrees.


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## glen r (Dec 8, 2010)

Construction heaters are just that.  One has to remember that on a construction site there is allot of air infiltration.  Using that same heater in a basement or well sealed space causes it to start producing carbon monoxide fairly quickly.  There are always a few people that end up dead during a long power failure because they used one of these heaters or a BBQ to try and keep warm because the furnace would not be working. 

Please ensure that any kind of combustion heater (propane, kerosene, diesel, etc.) used inside a residence is vented to the outside.  We want you to continue being a living member of IAP.


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## sbwertz (Dec 8, 2010)

MLKWoodWorking said:


> Well whatever a 2-1/2 car garage is 30 x 20 or so. Heated with two oil filled heaters, one on medium and the other on high. Nine degrees outside and it is 68 or 69 in the garage.


 

I found if I put a box fan behind the oil filled radiator heater, it will heat the whole 2 car garage.  (Garage is well insulated and has an insulated roll-up door.)  Admittedly, Phoenix is not all that cold, but I only run the heater on medium.  It will warm it up in less than half an hour.


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## Russianwolf (Dec 8, 2010)

you know..... Lillian had me move the vent free propane fireplace down to the basement last spring...... anyone know if I can hook it up to a 20lb tank? That's all I really need I think.


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## ctubbs (Dec 8, 2010)

I was a volunteer firefighter for a few years.  Fact of life, any dust derived from a flammable substance will ignite and under the correct conditions it will explode.  This is known to me from personal experience.  It is impressive, but it is not pretty.  I very highly recommend a non open flame heat source that does not reach the ignition temp of wood dust.  That crap can and will blow up. The flame spread of dust is tremendous.  It approaches gasoline fumes.  
There are many that have used open flame heat sources in a wood shop without an incident.  There are those no longer with us due to doing the same.  I do not know any of you face to face yet, but I would truly hate to get along without any of you.  That is my $0.02 worth.  Whatever you use, please get professional advice before you endanger yourself and your family.
Charles


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## randyrls (Dec 8, 2010)

My uncle has a furnace in his workshop that he salvaged from a house being demolished.  He put a smallish 3 quart(?) tank on it and ran the flue outside.  He runs it for about 30 minutes while he is setting up and it keeps the workspace warm for 2 hours.  Then he runs it for a little while longer.


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## workinforwood (Dec 10, 2010)

Yes or no is the answer.  Depends on the type of heater.  I have a Modine ceiling mount gas fire heater and it will not explode in my shop.  Yes, it has exposed flames, but the air the flames are burning is coming from outside the shop and the burnt gases are also exhaled outside the shop.  So the risk with this heater is extremely low.


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