# AAW Proxy Vote



## bradh (Jul 29, 2010)

FYI, for any AAW members. There is a special meeting planned in August and a proxy vote going on. You probably want to read this info:
http://www.supporttheaaw.com/index.html
You can also connect to this off the AAW home page:
http://woodturner.org/
__________________


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## ed4copies (Jul 29, 2010)

While I know little about the AAW, before I would sign a proxy vote, I would like to hear both sides of the argument.

In Mr Ellsworth's letter, I was particularly taken by the statement that there have been four successive Administrators and each one, in turn, has been fired by the board.

Has anyone considered that the ED may need better treasurers?  These financial issues involve $180,000+ and the board didn't notice it?  Did the treasurer make this report, or the ED?

Is there a website for the "Lacer supporters"?

This whole matter MAY be considered political and I want to be CLEAR that I personally have no position, just an interest in fairness to BOTH sides in this matter.


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## jpr28056 (Jul 29, 2010)

I thought the same thing, where is the treasurer?  Does the ED handle all of the day to day running of the group?

Sounds like a big mess.



ed4copies said:


> While I know little about the AAW, before I would sign a proxy vote, I would like to hear both sides of the argument.
> 
> In Mr Ellsworth's letter, I was particularly taken by the statement that there have been four successive Administrators and each one, in turn, has been fired by the board.
> 
> ...


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## Lenny (Jul 29, 2010)

Sounds like a need for an independent auditor!


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## BRobbins629 (Jul 29, 2010)

Turns out the $180,000 may be the value of donated pieces to the permanent collection and has nothing to do with cash flow.  This whole thing is a political mess of egos and I hope doesn't get much discussion here.  Many other wood hobby related boards have banned talking much about it.  Argue all you want on the AAW board.


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## louisbry (Jul 29, 2010)

It is interesting that a 5% proxy allegedly allows dissenters the ability to resend the by-laws and rewrite them to their choosing and to replace the current board with people of their choosing. If true one would have to question the current board and previous board's oversight in allowing such a clause to exist in the by-laws.


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## Russianwolf (Jul 29, 2010)

louisbry said:


> It is interesting that a 5% proxy allegedly allows dissenters the ability to resend the by-laws and rewrite them to their choosing and to replace the current board with people of their choosing. If true one would have to question the current board and previous board's oversight in allowing such a clause to exist in the by-laws.



actually, it just means that if they get 5% of the members to agree, they can hold a meeting to vote on things. It doesn't mean that they will win the votes if the other 95% show up, just that they can demand a meeting be held.

Now if they demand a meeting and the other 95% don't show up, the AAW has bigger problems.


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## louisbry (Jul 29, 2010)

Thanks Mike.  Your clarification makes more sense.


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## ed4copies (Jul 29, 2010)

IF they demand a meeting and hundreds show up, but the website has convinced thousands to send in proxies supporting the board, the meeting is meaningless.

This appears to be what the board hopes to achieve, by making the proxy ballot available on THEIR website.

No matter WHO is right, it looks like a nice big meeting would help "clear the air".  And, if all sides are heard, they MIGHT even find a compromise SOLUTION!!!!!

(May I suggest more HELP for the ED, based on what is shown??  ---four for four of the last four fired!!!)


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## Russianwolf (Jul 29, 2010)

I could be wrong, but I would wager the by-laws don't allow for 5% of the membership to make that big of a decision. It all depends on the by-laws though.

The other thing that strikes me, is they say the auditor identified deficiencies in the internal controls. Well, auditors always find deficiencies because no company is absolutely perfect. But they don't list what those deficiencies are. In a small org, like I assume they are, if you have the person writing the checks also signing them, that's a major deficiency for an auditor, but if the management team of the org is only one person, what can you do?

Now I have no dog in this fight either, I'm not a member or know any of the parties to my knowledge, but I'd want more info than has been provided if I were involved.


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## PenWorks (Jul 29, 2010)

Does this mean if I can collect 5% of registered voters, I can vote out and overthrown our current administration in Washington?? :biggrin: Better yet, they all should go.

Okay, so sounds like some real big issues at the AAW, I would have to side with the board and thier meeting. 

This must be pretty big, as I got emails & letters from about everybody today


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## its_virgil (Jul 29, 2010)

I agree 100% with what Bruce just posted. Go over there and join in (http://www.aawforum.org/vbforum/index.php) but let's don't bring it over here.
Do a good turn daily!
Don



BRobbins629 said:


> Turns out the $180,000 may be the value of donated pieces to the permanent collection and has nothing to do with cash flow. This whole thing is a political mess of egos and I hope doesn't get much discussion here. Many other wood hobby related boards have banned talking much about it. Argue all you want on the AAW board.


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## alphageek (Jul 29, 2010)

Wow... I have no ties to AAW (other than having considered becoming a member).    However, I have served on a board and talk about 'drama'.  I'm not completely sure all thats going on with AAW (I've read just a little), but it definitely seems a little out of round. (pun intended).  The proxy vote that they are asking for will give full power for ANY topic brought up.   And not only is the web site awfully one sided, it also seems to strike fear.   I just read some of the bylaws as well as some of the complaints against the board.   Yes, both sides can get proxy votes, but I still read that to remove a board member requires majority of the board.   I see nowhere that the by-laws allows membership to vote to remove the board.

All I can say is YIKES!   Makes me glad that I get most of my turning info from IAP!


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## Russianwolf (Jul 29, 2010)

Okay, I found the by-law. 



> Section 5.07 Removal of Directors. Any Director may be
> removed for cause by majority vote of the Directors then in office
> at a Regular Board Meeting or at a Special Board Meeting called
> for that purpose.



Now I'm no attorney, but what I'm reading right here, says only the BOD can remove a director, not a group of members.



> Section 14.01 Amendments. These Bylaws may be altered or
> amended by a majority vote of the Board of Directors. However, if
> a majority of the Board determines that addition, revision or repeal
> of a fundamental principle of these Bylaws is required, then that
> ...



And this says only the BOD can make changes to the by-laws.

So according to the by-laws, the fears are unfounded. But what do I know.


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## Gin N' Tonic (Jul 29, 2010)

I have been a member of the AAW for many years but come December I will NOT be renewing my membership. I don't know what's going on but 
I will not contribute one more cent of my money to it.


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## alphageek (Jul 29, 2010)

Russianwolf said:


> So according to the by-laws, the fears are unfounded. But what do I know.



Thats what I read too..   Makes you wonder whats really up.   Also makes me remember why I am not likely to want to join a board again.


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## PR_Princess (Jul 29, 2010)

I think that what you see posted over on the AAW forum is really only the tip of the iceberg. The whole thing makes me very sad.

And I agree with Bruce and Don. We can not solve their problems here.


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## greggas (Jul 29, 2010)

Ugh! After 40 days of reading endless posts on the AAW website about this mess I was so glad that I could go to my trust IAP site to escape it...no longer..we are infected!!!!!!!


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## rjwolfe3 (Jul 29, 2010)

Weird, I have a been a member for about a year and I have not received one email about this. I knew they were having problems but only because someone posted something about it here. I guess they don't send out emails to members?


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## hdbblue (Jul 30, 2010)

*The rest of the story*

For the other side of the story, go to:

www.memberactiongroup.com

A sad state of affairs for a stellar organization


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## BigShed (Jul 30, 2010)

greggas said:


> Ugh! After 40 days of reading endless posts on the AAW website about this mess I was so glad that I could go to my trust IAP site to escape it...no longer..we are infected!!!!!!!



Yes we are, so is another forum (PTP) I frequent. Soon it will not be safe to visit any forum even remotely wood turning oriented, especially the North American ones

It would be nice if that squabble could be confined to where it belongs, on the AAW forum, and it would be even nicer if they could raise the standard of debate.


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## Jim in Oakville (Jul 30, 2010)

They seem to have them selves a dilema over in the AAW, hard to say how it will turn out, one thing for sure is from what I have read there are hard feelings in both camps....division is not good for any organization.


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## MesquiteMan (Jul 30, 2010)

There is nothing forcing anyone to open this thread.  The title is pretty darn clear and if you don't care to read about AAW's problems, then why open the thread to gripe about having to read about AAW's problems?  This will not be deleted since none of the TOS or AUP have been violated.

Curtis
IAP Moderator


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## BigShed (Jul 30, 2010)

MesquiteMan said:


> There is nothing forcing anyone to open this thread.  The title is pretty darn clear and if you don't care to read about AAW's problems, then why open the thread to gripe about having to read about AAW's problems?  This will not be deleted since none of the TOS or AUP have been violated.
> 
> Curtis
> IAP Moderator



Curtis, haven't seen anyone (including myself) ask for this thread to be deleted.

I merely voiced my opinion, as are the disgruntled AAW members, so please extend the same courtesy to me that you are extending to them.

Isn't America supposed to be the land of the free?


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## ed4copies (Jul 30, 2010)

Fred,

Curtis' comments are usually prompted by his email, not the posts.  So, he is probably NOT addressing your post.

I'm sure he will say so, soon, but just thought I would try to put your mind at ease!!


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## bruce119 (Jul 30, 2010)

I do belong to the AAW only because the wood turning club I belong to says I have too. So I have been getting all kinds of emails and such. I hate politics even though I was the president of a model airplane club for 2 years.

So I really don't care but it seems to be a stupid mess. 

.


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## rjwolfe3 (Jul 30, 2010)

Bruce, how do I get any of these emails? I had to contact them last year three times just to get my membership info sent to me. I am signed up under their forum. I just like keeping informed even if it is a mess.


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## jeff (Jul 30, 2010)

This issue makes me a bit glad that I've dragged my feet in considering IAP affiliation with the AAW! See, procrastination is not all bad! I do wish all parties the best in resolving their differences.


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## MesquiteMan (Jul 31, 2010)

BigShed said:


> Curtis, haven't seen anyone (including myself) ask for this thread to be deleted.
> 
> I merely voiced my opinion, as are the disgruntled AAW members, so please extend the same courtesy to me that you are extending to them.
> 
> Isn't America supposed to be the land of the free?



BigShed, no discourtesy was meant or directed towards you.  My message was more in response to an e-mail that I received regarding this thread.


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## BigShed (Jul 31, 2010)

MesquiteMan said:


> BigShed, no discourtesy was meant or directed towards you.  My message was more in response to an e-mail that I received regarding this thread.



No worries mate :handshake:


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## bruce119 (Jul 31, 2010)

rjwolfe3 said:


> Bruce, how do I get any of these emails? I had to contact them last year three times just to get my membership info sent to me. I am signed up under their forum. I just like keeping informed even if it is a mess.


 
I get emails via the wood club I belong to. The way I understand it is that to do anything at the meeting like do a or participate in a demo you must be a member of the AAW. I believe that is for insurance purposes they must provide the club insurance. I really didn't like this when I jioned the club because you have to pay club dues and AAW dues.

Same thing with the model airplane club. Tobe a member of a model airplane club you must be a member of the AMA that is an origination like the AAW that provides clubs with insurance and a bi-monthly magazine kind of like the AAW.

I missed the last meeting when this all first broke. I will be at the next meeting next Wednesday. And don't you know we have member that attends meeting and is a sitting member of the board of the AAW. So would guess there will be just a little discussion on the topic.

Only other time I needed to be show I was a member of the AAW was when there was a wood symposium in Tampa. And I volunteered to help run a lathe and make pens with the public for CSUSA. It was required to have AAW membership.

So there are a LOT-LOT of organizations connected to the AAW. I am sure they will prevail and get though this.

I am starting to sound like I show interest when I want nothing to do with the politics of a club. I gave that up when I gave up being president of the model airplane club.

.


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## stolicky (Jul 31, 2010)

The whole thing is really a shame.  We have heard from two sides of the story, but no one will ever know the third side - the truth.

I gave up following the saga after the first week.  It is pretty scary that only 5% of the membership can 'overthrow' the elected member representatives.  What happens if there are more (or several) individual 5% groups?  That would be an interesting event...

Anyway, I am glad that the IAP is a separate entity; and thank you Jeff for your procrastination.

I just hope things work out and we can all get on with the hobby we all enjoy.  I have many, many, more years to enjoy turning.

I wonder if anyone has considered taking an ADR route (alternative dispute resolution)?

Ah, never mind, let's go make a pen, or many.....


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## islandturner (Jul 31, 2010)

A big surprise in the whole mess yesterday.  The AAW forum administrator announced that as of tomorrow, he's banned any new posting re the this ongoing mess.  I think the existing threads will be remain locked, but nothing new.  My bet, they'll move to some public forum, and carry on there without moderation.


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## alphageek (Jul 31, 2010)

islandturner said:


> A big surprise in the whole mess yesterday.  The AAW forum administrator announced that as of tomorrow, he's banned any new posting re the this ongoing mess.  I think the existing threads will be remain locked, but nothing new.  My bet, they'll move to some public forum, and carry on there without moderation.



Actually - in some ways, I'm surprised there was as much public threads on there in the first place.   Really makes me glad we have such a nice place here.   The few 'tiffs' that happen are peanuts compared to there.

Thanks for keeping us sane, Jeff!!  (oh, wait - we're turners.. theres no room for sanityarty


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## cozee (Jul 31, 2010)

Just observation . . . 

I do not see where the original post asked for any opinions. Isn't that the root of the issue causing the problems at the AAW???? From the way it reads, the OP was simply alerting and possible AAW member who does not frequenty the AAW site of purposed actions that concerns them. Nothing more.

If one has something to say about the issue at the AAW then why not make it over there instead of here? Makes more sense, well, as long as what is said is constructive. Otherwise, isn't one just making the issue their own?

There are always those who . . . 

 . . . choose to be a part to make things right no matter the cost.
 . . . choose to be a part but do care to make things right unless it makes them look good profits them.
 . . . and those who do not choose to be a part but are more than willing to stand afar off and throw rocks.




Some AAW affiliate clubs do require all members to also be a member of the AAW. Not all clubs do, as ours doesn't. And non-AAW members can and do participate in doing demos. The AAW has two different classifications for these clubs. At the moment I do not recall what they are called. Insurancve does come into play.


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## splinter99 (Jul 31, 2010)

I have followed this from the begining and all I can say is what a poorly handled mess this whole thing is


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## PR_Princess (Jul 31, 2010)

islandturner said:


> A big surprise in the whole mess yesterday.  The AAW forum administrator announced that as of tomorrow, he's banned any new posting re the this ongoing mess..



Oh, OK that should help. 

All I can say is -*

THANK YOU JEFF!!!!!*


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## Jim in Oakville (Jul 31, 2010)

jeff said:


> This issue makes me a bit glad that I've dragged my feet in considering IAP affiliation with the AAW! See, procrastination is not all bad! I do wish all parties the best in resolving their differences.



Jeff, please don't do it


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