# UV clear resin or gel discover...? maybe...!



## robutacion (Jan 17, 2020)

G'day peoples,

I have been waiting for a few weeks to talk to you guys and gals about some discoverings that I have been searching and testing for a long time to resolve issues that I was struggling with, one of the main ones was the difficulty in some repairings on cast blanks where the mix had to dry fast to prevent it from running off the repair area with something that I could mix with the same powder/colour I used on the original pour.

I have used thin, medium, thick CA, I used a variety of epoxy glues mainly the fast curing ones for the reasons I explained above from 5, 10, 15 and even 30 minutes ones but they all gave me a problem and that is, the CA's tend to give me more like a solid colour and not the pearl effect seen of the dry epoxy cast, the epoxy's even the more crystal clear ones (more expensive) all have also a similar result, the faster the cure time the worse the colour will come up this is due to the time that would take for the epoxy glue and mixed powder to settle and clear the transparency/translucency effects of the pearl powders, even the 30 minutes ones the mix gell well and truly before the separation occurs, killing the intended result.  The easiest way to explain it is to compare when you prepare a resin pour after you added the powder and stir properly, the mix gets "milky" taking some time for the resin to settle and clear, with most casting resins they give sufficient time for this to happen so when the resin starts gelling, the mix has settled and it slowly cures/hardens maintaining that clarity.  Well, that is exactly what happens when trying to make repairs on castings that are crucial to blend in perfectly with the rest of the blank, some colours are worse than others and while I managed to get them fairly close, not close/good enough for me.  

So, if you image a repair that requires to go around the blank totally or partially, anything that takes more than a few short seconds to harden will run and the mix dry too fast to allow the settling from your mix. 

I get regularly a bunch of knives that I created the blanks/blocks for the handles that after they are machined and put together with the ferrule and blade, they have bits missing from machining, pockets in the wood that didn't allow the resin to penetrate, and lots of Banksia pod seed holes that lose the resin from the inside either totally or partially and other type repairs of various natures so, the need to find a product that I can mix with the powders to do these repairs that settle in a couple of seconds after mixed and that you fill the repair area and hardens immediately as soon as an ultraviolet light is pointed at the repair area, maintaining the exact same characteristics/colouration/clarity as the original epoxy pours.

I got a few types of UV resin, glue, gell on eBay all from China and the results are pretty identical to them all.

NOW, another discover that has certainly resolved a few problems for me was using this UV resin as one of the coats for pens, knife handles, and many other possible applications. you can spread/apply it on a paper towel, or brush depending what it is you are coating, I decided that one of the tests was going to be on one of the Olive wood rounded blanks that I put aside due to cracks or imperfections or a combination of both, why Olive wood...? well, one of the issues when applying finishes on certain oily woods such as the Olive, many of those finishes will fail, mainly by separating from the wood so, Olive wood was my first target wood to test.
I grabbed one of these faulty blanks, wrapped some masking tape about halfway and sanded it to 400 after that I used a very small soft brush and very generously coated the whole half of the blank with it, its viscosity or the viscosity of that particular brand I was testing is similar to thick CA of about 700 cups so quite thick but spreads very easily, similar to applying the liquid gell also called liquid glass.  You keep rotating the blank to allow the thick layer to spread and self-level, giving plenty of time to then grab the ultraviolet torch or lamp and allow the blue light from reaching the covered areas, as soon as the light hits it it will harden immediately, stopping any chances of runnings or other.  Now, this product works better with temperatures under 30°C, I'm not yet sure how it works when we get cold up here but and from what I noticed using it at temps about 20°C or less the hardening is quicker.

I put this coated blank aside for a couple of days and today I though in removing the tape and give it my normal wet sand steps, 600, 800, 1000, 1200, 1500, 2000 and 2500, wipe it clean and straight away I noticed that this resin was not going to give a glossy finish but the type of finish some guys are looking as a more natural look but with a protective coat that from what I tested, is extremely hard, fingernail scratching didn't touch it, and I could feel that when using the sanding grits, even the lowest grits weren't taken much at all, taking it to the buffing wheel using some Novus2 compound, the low sheen results prove to be what I was expecting, the sort of finish that I require every so often.

Interestingly, I could feel that that one single application/coat of the UV resin has given a very noticeable increase in the blanks original diameter so, after all done I measured it and the results actually show on the blank from 17.82mm to 18.10mm about 0.28mm or 11.02 thou 

I have added a few pics I took from this olive blank for you all to have a look and tell me what you think.

Let me know if you knew about this product type and its various applications in the world of blank making and pen turning.

If you have any questions, please shoot...!  
Cheers
George


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## Woodchipper (Jan 17, 2020)

Interesting and detailed thread. Don't know how it would work for pen making but there is a UV activated epoxy (if that is the correct term) that is used in tying fishing flies.


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## hokie (Jan 17, 2020)

Woodchipper said:


> Interesting and detailed thread. Don't know how it would work for pen making but there is a UV activated epoxy (if that is the correct term) that is used in tying fishing flies.


Yup, something like this from Alumilite perhaps... https://store.makelure.com/store/p/1027-Alumi-UV.aspx


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## 1080Wayne (Jan 17, 2020)

Thanks for the idea George . Will get some and try it as I often have the holes and pockets problem you describe . 

My solution to the running off problem is a duct tape dam around the piece , assuming it has straight edges . For irregular shaped dams , I use alumimum Dow Corning 732 RTV sealant . The aluminum sealant is easily removable from wood , but the clear , white or black versions are not . It should be allowed to cure for at least a day before casting though .

Have zero experience with pigments in epoxies or CA so can`t comment on that . My Alumilite clear experience tells me that any time I have to top up a mould with a second pour I will get a visible weld line . Haven`t tried it but it may be possible to mask the weld by routing grooves into the first pour , thereby making a transition zone between the pours .


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## budnder (Jan 17, 2020)

Some previous experiments with UV cured stuff:






						Solarez Finish
					

First attempt at using one of the Solarez (called Thin Hard).  Still learn and still have trying more of their product line.    I have more questions than answers and needs a few more under my belt to provide an initial evaluation. I have finished 3 so far. IMO The look of the finish is same as...



					www.penturners.org


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## robutacion (Jan 18, 2020)

Interesting comments, thank you.

I may have not taken much notice to some older threads about UV products as I can see that this is not a new product by any means just new to me.

I didn't know that Alumilite had UV products and I can see that the finish from it provided a lot more gloss than the ones I have tried but where this product impressed me the most was as a castings repairs on resin areas. that is where I got excited.

I like the idea behind the UV products and how the ultraviolet light makes it react, despite the fact that there aren't many older styles of finishes that I haven't tried or used I can see where this UV product will be handy for me, for sure.

Cheers
George


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## TonyL (Jan 18, 2020)

Bob from San Francisco has had success with Alumi UV. I have own several Solarez products. As far as a pen finish, Bob has had much more success with Alumi UV than I had with Solarez. It may be a matter of his technique, process, etc.. The challenge with may of these UV cure products used in very thin layers is overcoming oxygen inhibition. It can definitely be done. I do use several of the Solarez products for quick repairs, filling voids, and cracks (I just used it Thursday). I am hoping that this eventually evolves into quicker, stronger alternative to CA. I don't have a problem with CA beyond waiting for coats to cure and using accerlator (I rather us UV light). I do use Gluboost as well as others brands of CA. This is just one man's experience.


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## Woodchipper (Jan 18, 2020)

Solarez! That's the name. Saw it demonstrated at a fly fishing expo last February.


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## robutacion (Jan 18, 2020)

TonyL said:


> Bob from San Francisco has had success with Alumi UV. I have own several Solarez products. As far as a pen finish, Bob has had much more success with Alumi UV than I had with Solarez. It may be a matter of his technique, process, etc.. The challenge with may of these UV cure products used in very thin layers is overcoming oxygen inhibition. It can definitely be done. I do use several of the Solarez products for quick repairs, filling voids, and cracks (I just used it Thursday). I am hoping that this eventually evolves into quicker, stronger alternative to CA. I don't have a problem with CA beyond waiting for coats to cure and using accerlator (I rather us UV light). I do use Gluboost as well as others brands of CA. This is just one man's experience.


Hi Tony,
What is this Bob from San Francisco IAP name...?

I don't have problems with CA or CA applications I use litres and litres each year of EZ-bond, the same for their accelerator, I have been getting my recent CA supplies from Exotics but they can't send me the accelerator due to air freight regulations, however, I have sent a couple of emails to Ed asking if he could send me a 1 gallon of accelerator via sea-freight but I never got an answer so I still don't know if accelerator can be sent by ship, I've got a couple of 8oz bottles left that that won't last me long so I need to find a way to get some more, sooner rather than later.

Anyway, I saw the UV Alumilite video/demonstration from the link provided at the beginning of this thread and when I saw him suggesting dipping the items into the 1 litre of this stuff I got thinking, as far as I know, any materials I've used as finishes, as soon as you dip a piece of wood into a container, regardless if 1/4lt or 1 gallon, the product will get immediately contaminate and after some time the product will set/dry/gell, in another word, become useless so, I will contact Alumilite and ask the question, is that procedure advisable/suggested/recommended as one way to fully coat whatever you want to coat without the UV resin to be compromised or not...? The answer will be interesting...!

If it happens that dipping wood/acrylic blanks into a litre of this UV product doesn't compromise/affect the life expectancy of the product, I will certainly want to get some and sooner rather than later, I'm telling you as I need very soon a UV resin that sets as glossy as I've seen in the post.

You mention the possible issue of *oxygen inhibition* when applying very thin UV resin application, most of the UV resins I've seen so far are thick and thick viscosity is what I'm after for a single application only and while I believe I have some idea as to what oxygen inhibition means/represents, could you please give us a simple explanation as to qhat you learn about the subject.

Thank you,

Cheers
George


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## TonyL (Jan 18, 2020)

robutacion said:


> Hi Tony,
> What is this Bob from San Francisco IAP name...?
> 
> I don't have problems with CA or CA applications I use litres and litres each year of EZ-bond, the same for their accelerator, I have been getting my recent CA supplies from Exotics but they can't send me the accelerator due to air freight regulations, however, I have sent a couple of emails to Ed asking if he could send me a 1 gallon of accelerator via sea-freight but I never got an answer so I still don't know if accelerator can be sent by ship, I've got a couple of 8oz bottles left that that won't last me long so I need to find a way to get some more, sooner rather than later.
> ...


Bob in SF

the presence of oxygen exposed to a thin layer of "glue/finishes" refers the polymerization/curing of the glue incomplete.









						Overcoming oxygen inhibition in UV-curing of acrylate coatings by carbon dioxide inerting, Part I
					

The inhibitory effect of molecular oxygen in the photoinitiated polymerization of acrylate resins has been completely eliminated by operating in a car…




					www.sciencedirect.com


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## robutacion (Jan 18, 2020)

TonyL said:


> Bob in SF
> 
> the presence of oxygen exposed to a thin layer of "glue/finishes" refers the polymerization/curing of the glue incomplete.
> 
> ...


Thanks Tony.

Well, I asked, I got it and oh boy, a lot of very complicated words in the process but in general terms, it seems that the situation is more critical when applying thin coats and that is what I'm trying to avoid.

Cheers
George


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## TonyL (Jan 19, 2020)

robutacion said:


> Thanks Tony.
> 
> Well, I asked, I got it and oh boy, a lot of very complicated words in the process but in general terms, it seems that the situation is more critical when applying thin coats and that is what I'm trying to avoid.
> 
> ...


There are ways to overcome it:

The right wavelength and intensity of light
Shield/blocking out the surface by covering it (plastic wrap)
Bathing it in another gas etc.
Creating a vacuum
Remember, I have not tried Alumi UV AND others have had results with Solarez than I have. I am far from an authority.


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## robutacion (Jan 19, 2020)

TonyL said:


> There are ways to overcome it:
> 
> The right wavelength and intensity of light
> Shield/blocking out the surface by covering it (plastic wrap)
> ...


Tony,
I understand what you are saying and I appreciate that you have given me/us your thoughts on the issue, every bit of information can only be helpful in the end.

Cheers
George


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## TonyL (Jan 19, 2020)

robutacion said:


> Tony,
> I understand what you are saying and I appreciate that you have given me/us your thoughts on the issue, every bit of information can only be helpful in the end.
> 
> Cheers
> George


You got it   Maybe Others can share what they learned?  I finished the attached will Solarez.


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## robutacion (Jan 19, 2020)

TonyL said:


> You got it   Maybe Others can share what they learned?  I finished the attached will Solarez.
> View attachment 231213View attachment 231214View attachment 231215


Wow, what a gloss...! well done.

Cheers
George


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## TonyL (Jan 20, 2020)

robutacion said:


> Wow, what a gloss...! well done.
> 
> Cheers
> George


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## TonyL (Jan 20, 2020)

That was after many, many attempts.
"TonyL, post: 2059430, member: 23106"]
You got it   Maybe Others can share what they learned?  I finished the attached will Solarez.
View attachment 231213View attachment 231214View attachment 231215
[/QUOTE]
That was after many, many attempts.


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## Edward Cypher (Jan 30, 2020)

I use the Chinese UV resins in finishing rings.  Seems to work well.  Looks about the same as the mercury CA when finished.


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## MonumentTie (Feb 7, 2020)

Ciao, oggi ho provato un po' di gel uv per unghie che usa mia moglie su un pezzo grezzo. Ha l'idea della plastica e non del vetro come CA, ma sembra dare molta resistenza alla penna. Devo provare su una penna vera.


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## TonyL (Feb 7, 2020)

I just bought and returned the Chinese UV resin and 3 types of UV lights.  Many can get it to work; I cannot.  I did finish  a pen yesterday with Solarez dual cure gloss (I bought it and other products Solarez 3 years ago). I had to work with a bit, but I was pleased with the finish (two coats, hardly any sanding, then buffed).

This is Italian Olive Wood from Marhalls (the department store) . I cross cut it on my band saw. Learning to turn a cross cut blank was interesting' good thing I have a lot of low 150 grit SP LOL. BTW, there was only figuring on one side.


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## MonumentTie (Feb 7, 2020)

wao la tua penna è bellissima, penso che cercherò anche di trovare una resina UV, ma prima voglio testare bene il gel per unghie UV di mia moglie.


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## TonyL (Feb 7, 2020)

I must translate this...but  I will thank you. I do recognize bellissima. My sir name is LoBello.


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## robutacion (Feb 8, 2020)

Hi Tony,

Interesting that some products work better for some than for others, off course there are many different Chinese identical products that are only identical in the claims they make because the results can be very different.  I have found that the Chinese UV products that I purchased work better is cooler days, anything under 25C, the reaction to the UV light is very different in cold and hot days, for whatever the reason, it worked better for me in cooler days.

Cheers
George


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## TonyL (Feb 8, 2020)

I do enjoy experimenting.


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