# Drum sander failure...!



## robutacion (May 17, 2016)

Hi peoples,

Workshop equipment failures and problems are as old as tools themselves so, most of you like me is not new to that but, it always happens at the wrong times, huh...?? (is ever a good time..??)

Well yesterday, my Carbatec drum sander, one of these 
  decided that would stop for good, what I mean is, about 1 year after I got it, I started to notice some considerable loss of power on the main sanding drum motor to the point where the safety heat button would turn the motor off at the least sign of the drum starting to bog.

I reduced the amount of wood sanding to a minimum each pass but even that, would kick that switch/button to quick so, I decided to bypass that switch that had become far too sensitive and continue using the machine.

The lack of power was really getting low and I was spending far too much time making several passes when one should have been sufficient but, I did not realise that every time the drum jammed the wood, the table conveyor belt would either stop turning or spin the belt under the wood but not strong enough to push the wood from the jam.

I contacted Carbatec late last year, just before I got sick, the machine had 3 years warranty and about 18 months use so, I spoke to the guy that actually sold the machine to me and requested a possible solution for the main problem that at the time was the main sanding drum motor.

We spoke about the possibility to have their technician to come on site from Adelaide (about 70km away) and check the motor but that visit would cost me unless I would take the machine to their shop for testing.

The damn thing is heavy for me and I was using it almost daily so, I considered what would be the best option, take the machine to them have the motor possibly replaced and be without a machine for some weeks or, continue using it and when it would burn, I was considering to buy a stronger motor for it, the 1Hp is just not enough.

I then got sick and the last thing on my mind was the damn machine so, months later, and with so much work to catch up, I have been using that sander quite a lot until yesterday when, halfway through one lot of pen blanks, the table conveyor belt stop turning, while the main drum sander was still going but obviously, the wood got jammed.

The small motor that runs that table belt seemed that was not turning so, I reduce the belt tension and tried again and this time, the whole power to the shed went out

Tried again, the same result so, I had to try find the problem and with some luck fix it.  It took me a little while to figure out how to dismantle that small motor and attached gearbox, I had to undo a lot more bolts and screws than I ever though but after some time, I had the whole thing out.

The motor brushes seemed OK so, that was not the problem, the "finger joint" between the gear box and the rod that turns the belt seemed OK so, it had to be something inside the gearbox.

Was not lack of grease, it had plenty but I could see immediately that, the bottom cog that engages the motor shaft was chewed up pretty bad.  Cleaning all the grease, it became obvious that the whole gear box was stuffed, cogs and pins were all damaged.

There was nothing else I could do then contact Carbatec and tell them the news.  I told them that I had some pics of what I had found and that I was going to send them for their viewing and deliberation.

What are they going to do...?? I have no idea, are they going to send me a new gearbox so that I can put the machine back together..?? and about the problem with the main motor loss of power..??? after all, was that constant jamming that caused the cogs to strip so, a new gearbox is not going to resolve all the problems with that machine so, what will they do..???

Are they going to void the warranty because I worked on the machine? possibly, are they going to replace it? I doubt.

I wouldn't mind an upgrade to an identical size machine from Jet, the 16-32, same drum size and belts that I have a lot spare however, what am I going to do with this one and, it's a $1,500 investment that I could do without, at the moment.:redface:

I haven't heard anything from them today, I need to wait and see what they are willing to do, the one way or the other, I need a working machine here, ASAP so, is not going to be fun, for sure...!

Here are the pics I took;

Cheers
George


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## stonepecker (May 17, 2016)

Three year Warrenty? Used two years? Sounds like the company needs to help you out. I understand that you are busy George. However, there are times we just have to bite the bullet. Do you have a young neighbor that would help you load the machine?

Personally........I would take it back and ask for a loaner.....or buy another bigger one and get back to work. I would also have them fix this machine and set it up also.

Now you would have two machines and could keep going even if one breaks down. And if the problem is the machine itself........Maybe it is time to upgrade to a better sander.

Sorry to hear all the problems but sadly, sometimes the only answer is the one we don't want to do. That is spend more money. But in the long run we are happier and get more done in the future.

Best of Luck,


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## robutacion (May 18, 2016)

Yes, I agreed with you, sometimes we have to do what we don't want however, the situations decide the determining factors and choices have to be made.

There is always the issue between DIY and Industrial equipment, not always the prices are the determining factor, machine sizes Vs workshop room/space available do sometimes play a big role, big machines are stronger and more durable but they can an overkill in some situations, running costs can also enter the equation a good example of that was my upgrade from a single bag 3/4Hp dust collector to the industrial double bag 3Hp unit, I was in shock when my power bill increase 25% after I started running that unit daily or nearly...!

There is also the very true fact that, most of us try to use DIY tools that were not made to work as hard as we push them, we are all guilty of that.

I did however got a call from Carbatec late afternoon to let me know the technician had reviewed my case and that he requested the machine to be sent back as is (in the pics) no point in me putting it together when he have to pull it all apart again so, the machine is going back tomorrow.

I have booked my local courier  early tomorrow to help taking it off the stand and into the van, the gearbox parts are not in stock so, any parts required will have to come for overseas, it will take 4 to 8 weeks to have it repaired.

The people on that Carbatec store know me well and I have a good customer to them for many years so, and after explaining that I couldn't afford immediately a replacement upgrade to the Jet 16-32, they agreed to have the Jet sent by the same Adelaide courier in the morning and allow me to pay if off in 3 months.  This means that, the courier will deliver the new machine before takes the damaged one away and I will continue to do my work.

At this point, they are glad that, I won't be on their back to have the damaged machine fixed in a hurry and I'm considering to sell the sander after being refurbished, space in my workshop is very limited. 

Is good to know that some people that know you, trust's you, huh...?:wink::biggrin:

Back to the sawdust, tomorrow...!

Cheers
George


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## jttheclockman (May 18, 2016)

Did you ask them if they would be interested in buying the old unit back and you using that money to buy the new one??? They could sell as a refurbished unit if they do those things.


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## stonepecker (May 18, 2016)

It sounds like they are doing the 'right thing' with you George. You are so very right when you have a history with people/companies, it helps to make everything happen smoother. Also glad that they are willing to give you the time it takes to make it happen on your end.

That is great service on their part.

Better and bigger machines always seem to take more power. The trade off is better and faster time getting the work done. Hopefully, you noticed a change worth the extra cost in the quality of air and less dust floating around in the shop. Using the equipment for what it is designed to do and not trying to push it past it limits will help it to last longer and hopefully, give you years of enjoyment.

Personally, I would love to see pictures of your shop.
Best wishes with the new equipment (TOYS?) Have fun. That is what it is all about.


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## KBs Pensnmore (May 19, 2016)

Hi George, when you get the old unit back and you decide to sell it, please let me know as I'm looking for one. Send me a PM, I can pick it up from you as I'm in Murray Bridge.
Regards
Kryn


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## robutacion (May 20, 2016)

KBs Pensnmore said:


> Hi George, when you get the old unit back and you decide to sell it, please let me know as I'm looking for one. Send me a PM, I can pick it up from you as I'm in Murray Bridge.
> Regards
> Kryn



Absolutely mate, I will be glad to sell it to you, I would expect the machine to come out of the refurbishment as most new condition.

I will let you know, don't worry and will be great to have your visit...!:biggrin:

Cheers
George


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## robutacion (May 20, 2016)

*New Jet working*

Hi peoples,

As mentioned on my last post, the courier came and conquered so, the new jet is up and running and with a dozen hours of work on it.

I'm using the stand from the other sander, the Jet stand is very low for my likings so, I endup using the bottom metal tray of the Jet stand to put on top of the old stand as the Jet is a lot narrower but similar lengths.

Bolted it all down, adjusted drum to the table, put a 36 grit belt of it and Bob was your uncle...!:biggrin:

Interesting that, the conveyor belt on the rotating table, is made of some weird course material looking like a wide sanding belt of 60 grit or so, it grabs like hell...!

I'm pleased that, in times of need, there is always someone willing to give you a hand minimize the difficulties however, reaching that position, has been a careful and constant working to maintain my good name and character with everyone I dealt through the years, hard work sometimes but very rewarding in the end.

I'm going to try upload a couple of pics I took of the new machine from this Tablet, my home pc and Internet connection has been down all day so, I use the Tablet on emergencies like this.

All back to normal again, plenty of sanding to do...!

Cheers
George


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## jttheclockman (May 20, 2016)

George, it is a sanding belt and I highly suggest you get yourself a spare. They do break. Happy sanding.

Can I ask what is it that you do so much sanding for???


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## robutacion (May 20, 2016)

jttheclockman said:


> George, it is a sanding belt and I highly suggest you get yourself a spare. They do break. Happy sanding.
> 
> Can I ask what is it that you do so much sanding for???



Sure, all blanks are cut  on the bandsaw oversized, particularly the green woods that are either air dried or oven dry, this mean that, they move considerably requiring some work to get then straight and within ideal sizes.   Since we got it I sanded approx 500 pen blanks, mostly of the new wood I got from the firewood process place.Then I have the Resifills that are also cut on the bandsaw and then sanded to many sizes.  Other things I need that machine for is to sand timber boards that I used to do my CNC carvings and a few things more.

Yes,  I was also convinced that the table belt was indeed a wide sanding belt, I will have to contact Carbatec and find out costs for a spare.

Cheers
George


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## jttheclockman (May 20, 2016)

robutacion said:


> jttheclockman said:
> 
> 
> > George, it is a sanding belt and I highly suggest you get yourself a spare. They do break. Happy sanding.
> ...



OK George you will have to forgive my ignorance because sometimes I do not see the trees through the forest.

When you say you sand pen blanks, two thing come to mind. One is why. If you sell them , why not sell them the way they are. Or why not sand the board before you cut the blanks. To individually sand pen blanks on a tool like that would drive me completely bonkers. That is what a lathe is for to make them round. 

I do understand sanding boards. That is what that tool is meant to do. Before I bought my Performax I use to sand with a belt sander. 

As far as that belt make sure it is a belt for the Jet and not the other machine. Could be different sizes. Good luck and have fun.


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## robutacion (May 21, 2016)

jttheclockman said:


> robutacion said:
> 
> 
> > jttheclockman said:
> ...



Well, my woods processing is never based on boards, many trees are very small and logs are cut no longer than 11 or 12" long so, blanks are cut on the bandsaw (free hand, most time) to utilize what I can from each log that produce a fair amount of waste that I would see no point in putting through the drum sander when in reality, they will move while drying, if simple pen planks can twist and bend as much as they do, short boards (11" long or so) would be a nightmare to keep straight.

For my own use, I wouldn't bother with squaring and sanding after all, they are all going to the taken to a lathe and turned round(ish), right...?? sure, however, when selling processed stuff, wood or anything else, people like myself, we want to see how each type of wood will look like with smooth surfaces and some kind of finish, before you decided what we like and order so, presenting the blanks finished that way, is a must...!

So many of my woods don't look much when raw and in rough form, make it presentable to allow the wood to show what is all about (colours and grains) and it completely transforms to something very special, there are no tricks or falsifying what each wood looks like so, finishing/presentation and good pics are very important in the buyer's eyes.

You are probably thinking that I'm sanding the 4 faces of each pen blank, one at the time, huh..???? no sir, I'm not that silly, I have made a flat tray that has a capacity of 3 rows of 16 blanks each so, every time the tray completes each pass, 48 blanks have passed through, each face requires 4 passes, 2 at 45° to the sanding drum and 2 with the grain, left side and right side.  Each blank requires this done on all 4 faces, before they are marked/identified and then waxed at the selected best face.

So, I'm basically using the machine for the intents if was made for, furthermore, I actually use the whole table of the machine, the tray is made to the drum width, with similar length (almost square), the drum/motor works harder that way, pretty much as if I was sanding long boards and the full machine width when in reality, regular size boards most people use, would only use half or less of the drum width.

Bear in mind that, I don't really use sanding grits, in fact, the only grit I use is 36 and that is a cutting grit. Sometimes I only need half mill removed from each face, other times, 2 or 3mm are removed from each face, depending on how bigger I have to cut the green blanks so that while drying I still have sufficient wood to sand to correct sizes.  I have had (too often) blanks from some woods cut at about 30mm square, coming out of the oven or let to air dry for 2 to 4 years, by the time they are dry, the wood is already under my average finished sizes of 21mm, it twisted or badly bent, they endup as firewood that, after all that work and time waiting is a nasty disappointment.

Any belt replacement will come from Carbatec for this Jet model machine, no messing about...!:biggrin:

If you were closer, I would invite you to come over and see what I do the way I do it, each dog gets his owner, huh...!:wink:

Cheers
George


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## jttheclockman (May 21, 2016)

Thanks George. Now I understand a little better your process. Seems like you have things under control. I did not know you make so many blanks from such odd sources. Well good luck with the machine and happy sanding. Those tools were a great invention for sure.


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## KBs Pensnmore (May 22, 2016)

Hi George, 
Look forward to meeting you and seeing your operation of doing blanks.
Instead of throwing the undersized ones in the firewood heap, why not try to sell them as slimline blanks? At least all the effort is not wasted.
Regards
Kryn


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## robutacion (May 22, 2016)

KBs Pensnmore said:


> Hi George,
> Look forward to meeting you and seeing your operation of doing blanks.
> Instead of throwing the undersized ones in the firewood heap, why not try to sell them as slimline blanks? At least all the effort is not wasted.
> Regards
> Kryn



Hi Kryn,

At my place, no piece of wood is wasted, I do however salvage and offer for sale a certain percentage of blanks that did not make my regular sizes, one is particular has consistently disappointed me when it comes to excessive shrinking while air drying, and that is the Olive root, a very different material than Olive wood, many hundreds of high grade (grain) have simply shrunk and open cracks like is no tomorrow.

I have just recently processed (or tried to) hundreds of Olive root blanks that were cut/processed from those large root slabs, about 3 years ago.  I was sure that 1" square green wood would be sufficient to give the 21mm square finished sizes but, that was not to be, the grain is amazing and many with the rare Olive burl in them but, they were already under 20mm when I decided to finish a few of my frying wood towers (about 100 blanks each) so, I carefully tried to square them the best I could and take the very minimum, even then, they are not as presentable as I would like and off-course, the size is compromised for bigger size pens, most blanks are not giving much more than 18/20mm.

For that very reason, I made them into the normal 4 blank packs and marked them as "seconds", they have been done for some time but I haven't yet listed them on my web-store.

Would the less finished quality/presentation and the slightly thinner blanks make that much difference, considering the amazing grains they have...???
To certain people, it may not but for many others, it would.  Can they buy/bet blanks like these anywhere else? not likely...!

Let's test it shall we...??

I'm going to add here, a bunch of pics of the type blanks I'm talking about, let's see if anyone is interested, if they are, I will sell them here, no problem...!

Oops...! is only one problem, most of my threads are made from my Vendors Forum, I rarely now post outside of it because of the regular mentioning of my own woods, and the possibility to always turn any of my threads into some sort of sale or offer and I do not want or need to contravene IAP classifieds rules so, I will open a new thread where I will offer these "second grade" #22 Olive root/burl for sale and go from there...!:biggrin:

Cheers
George


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## robutacion (May 24, 2016)

Well, this morning I received and email from Cabatec with the deliberation on the repair issue of my drum sander after 2 years use and with 3 years warranty.

While disappointed, I'm in no way surprised with their decision to cancel the warranty because I basically touched it, pull it apart.  Their focus or should I say, the point the hold on to justify their decision was that, I bypassed the motor safety switch and therefore caused the gearbox to self-destroy.

They offered to repair it at my own cost and the quote was for "in excess of $450.00" according to their own words...!:frown:

I was expecting something like that, so, nothing new.

I have requested that they give me a cost for the parts I need so that I can fix it myself, their labour hourly rates are very hight so, I will get it repaired.

It Happens that, I had to take Merissa this morning to the Repatriation hospital for her monthly Infusion so, I used the opportunity to drive to Carbatec in the 2 hours I had of waiting so that turned out OK.

Parts ordered are, gearbox, safety switch and the capacitor with those replaced, the machine should be back to perfect working order, again...! and if the parts cost far too much, I will put it aside as spares...!

Such is life...!

Cheers
George


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