# Dont Cheap Out.



## rodtod11 (Sep 17, 2013)

I have learned a lesson no doubt many of you here already knew. "DONT CHEAP OUT!!"

I wont mention any specific brand names but.....First I bought a cheap lathe to get started via "Craigslist" . Well, that turned out to be quite a "_Bear_" when the belt broke after a month or two on that lathe and nobody on the planet makes that belt anymore. So, my $200 lathe was now a $200 door stop. Went and got the variable speed mini lathe so many say has such a good reputation and it works soooo much better that my pen making was really "_ready for takeoff_". 

Then I got a large order from a local store that wanted to stock my pens to see if they would sell, but one minor problem...they wanted them to be priced to their customers at $25. Well, on a consignment that still left very little room for my profit since they would get 60% and out of my 40% would come the cost of materials. So I found a good source for the hardware and went to another source and found a sale on a group of acrylic blanks they said would "_line_" up a lot of "_fun_" for a pen maker like me...AND....they were so inexpensive , my profit on these pens would be much better. So , feeling "_well schooled_" in the art of pen making I ordered the blanks from this "_Institution_" . I have turned 4 of them now...and they are just awful!!!!  I painted the brass, yet you can still see the tube through the acrylic it is so transparent. There is no depth, the color washes out after you have turned some of the material away. I dont even want to give them away because I do not want to be associated with such poor work.  So, I am tossing out the acrylics and starting over with decent material. I will have no profit..am late getting the order done and just feel discouraged. So...lesson learned...

Bottom line here is .....DO NOT CHEAP OUT! Dont buy a Grizzly off of Craigslist, save up your pennies and get a Jet or equivalent, use quality materials, not cheap crap Penn State Pens is selling out that they call "funline"  all that means is they are laughing and making fun of you for buying it! , and  sorry for all the silly puns , but if I dont make a joke of this debacle I will break something...


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## its_virgil (Sep 17, 2013)

Hmmmm.. You say "Don't Cheap Out" yet you are willing to sell your slimlines for $10 then take your expenses out of the $10? Hmmmm.  Seems someone is slow to take their own advice.:wink:
Do a good turn daily!
Don


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## Dan Masshardt (Sep 17, 2013)

When a store wanted to sell your pens for $25, your response should have been an explanation of why that's simply not possible.  

Penn state makes decent kits and not so decent kits.  The fun lines are throw always.  Meant to be able to make a pen for next to nothing.  

The real lesson is, you get what you pay for.


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## 76winger (Sep 17, 2013)

For me (and this is my opinion on it), There's too much time involved turning and polishing acrylic to only get virtually nothing out of it. As much as I love making pens, I value my time enough to see the need to *AT MINIMUM* make enough to buy two pens for every one sold. That gives me something to grow inventory, and add & maintain tools and equipment. 

When you're breaking even on the cost of materials alone, you're actually falling behind when you consider time spent, wear and tear on tools & equipment, electricity, shop heating & cooling, etc. etc.


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## edstreet (Sep 17, 2013)

Interesting.  Tho I did pick up several things from your post I am not going to touch those areas because I can feel your anger/frustration and I myself have been there several times.

My #1 rule in the shop: The first mistake, put everything down and walk away.  Have observed to many accidents, goofs, slips, near misses and the like.  Accidents are for the most part a cascade failure of events.  Not only are they costly but they can also be very injurious and even deadly.

My #2 rule in the shop is this: The purpose of the shop is to have fun, enjoyment, relaxing and stress free.  If those things are not there then it is a mistake, goto rule #1.

In the cooling off period from Rule #1 I evaluate what I did wrong, how I would have liked it to go and how I get there.  I also look at why the mistake happened and what caused it, fix that issue then have at it.


As for the belt. I would like to introduce you to a novel concept.  It is called a Link Belt  This particular link is to wood crap, you can also likely buy them local and also at other places to.  These become a very good saver esp when you have oddball things like you mentioned.

Sometimes seeing the tube is not a 'bad' thing but it gives you an avenue of gross options as to how creative, cleaver you can be to change things into something better.  I.e. changing colors on the painted tube, patterns and so forth.  Small things do magnify so if something was put on the tube then it would show up so that gives you things like photo's, stamps, images, clip art, labels and the like.


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## rodtod11 (Sep 17, 2013)

Gee...thanks Don.


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## chriselle (Sep 18, 2013)

You MUST paint the inside of the blanks.  No if's, and's or but's.....


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## mredburn (Sep 18, 2013)

If I may offer some thoughts.
They have determined the selling price, your percentage, and its a consignment sale?
If your going to work for Less than 10.00 a pen you need to be paid on delivery. If you take and subtract all costs, hard and soft how much are you really  making a pen? How long will it take you?  Do  you want to work that cheap? Who eats the cost if a pen is stolen or destroyed? 
I can appreciate your frustration in the process of getting started.
I would however cancel this deal. You will easily come to hate making pens if your losing money with every pen you have to make. There are several threads on consigning pens ups and downs with lots of good suggestions or they will show up here as your  thread gets its own responses.

Good luck which ever way it goes.


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## Glenn McCullough (Sep 18, 2013)

The replies above are spot on (and maybe painful to hear), but thanks for being honest about what you got yourself into. It will save others some of the pain you are now feeling. I never reduce my price unless it "I" want to clear it out because it is not selling. More often, I will disassemble it and make it something better as it has my name associated with it.


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## Wildman (Sep 18, 2013)

There are many inexpensive deals out there if shop wisely and keep track of expenses soon learn what each kit cost to make.   Do not forget there is also a cost to sell your wares.

If go to vendor’s link, check vendors for specials and quaintly discounts on regular kits pen blanks.   Buying the kit specials excellent way to build variety pen portfolio.  Whether buying wood or acrylic blanks look for mix & match quantity discounts.     

Really, have to think hard about going to that consignment shop.  Only reason to work with this store is get your name out there.  One problem with consignment shops is inventory shrinkage that comes from employees and customers.  Definitely need a conversation with person in charge about that.  

If they do not allow little self-promotion, like supply of business of cards and or photo portfolio of your other pens and stuff you make to display with your pens walk away.  

You will make more money selling your stuff at local farmers or flea markets.


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## LL Woodworks (Sep 18, 2013)

rodtod11 said:


> I have learned a lesson no doubt many of you here already knew. "DONT CHEAP OUT!!"
> 
> Then I got a large order from a local store that wanted to stock my pens to see if they would sell, but one minor problem...they wanted them to be priced to their customers at $25. Well, on a consignment that still left very little room for my profit since they would get 60% and out of my 40% would come the cost of materials.



I had a similar request and  "offer" from a retail store and politely told them no thanks. Although pen making is a serious hobby, no point in giving them away so someone else can make money on my work.  Another boutique has my stuff and the arrangement is 60% for me and 40% for the boutique, and I set the minimum price.


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## kovalcik (Sep 18, 2013)

Is that 60/40 split usual for consignments?  I was toying with the idea of doing consignment sales at a place that offers painting classes but we have not talked numbers yet.  Based on my normal prices, getting 40% would make it not worth my time.  Sorry for hijacking the thread.


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## joefrog (Sep 18, 2013)

So... what's a "better" slimline kit?


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## kovalcik (Sep 18, 2013)

I never tried the funline kits, but I have had good luck with PSI's normal slimline kits. Craft Supplies artisan slims are also good. I got some nice ones from Smitty, but I don't think he carries slims any more.  Woodcraft's are pretty good also.  

I don't have much brand loyalty for slimlines. Usually buy them wherever they are on sale or just add a few when I order other stuff.


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## joefrog (Sep 18, 2013)

kovalcik said:


> I never tried the funline kits, but I have had good luck with PSI's normal slimline kits. Craft Supplies artisan slims are also good. I got some nice ones from Smitty, but I don't think he carries slims any more.  Woodcraft's are pretty good also.
> 
> I don't have much brand loyalty for slimlines. Usually buy them wherever they are on sale or just add a few when I order other stuff.



Whew.  Just making sure.  The ones you mention are the ones I usually use.  Good thing, since I'm about halfway through a 80-pen order.


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## underdog (Sep 18, 2013)

As a mechanic/technician, I'm puzzled by the statement that "nobody on the planet makes that belt anymore".

Really? You can't take the old belt down to the auto parts store and have them match it up?

V-belts (of all cross sections) and serpentine belts are made every day for all KINDS of applications. 

I'd be very surprised if I couldn't find that belt for you.


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## edstreet (Sep 18, 2013)

underdog said:


> As a mechanic/technician, I'm puzzled by the statement that "nobody on the planet makes that belt anymore".
> 
> Really? You can't take the old belt down to the auto parts store and have them match it up?
> 
> ...



Sadly I would have loved for this to be true but with a recent belt break on a jet 1220VS lathe I called everywhere in the area for a belt but no place had them.  I even called places that claimed "if its a belt we have it", again no.  I ended up going to jet and bought 2x of them.  Several places had the size needed, the width but none of them had the 3 grooves. 1 and 2 grooves were there but never 3.  Every one of the automotive shops said "oh that's a small appliance belt, goto a vacuum cleaner place for that and come back to us for real belts"


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## HamTurns (Sep 18, 2013)

edstreet said:


> Sadly I would have loved for this to be true but with a recent belt break on a jet 1220VS lathe I called everywhere in the area for a belt but no place had them. I even called places that claimed "if its a belt we have it", again no. I ended up going to jet and bought 2x of them. Several places had the size needed, the width but none of them had the 3 grooves. 1 and 2 grooves were there but never 3. Every one of the automotive shops said "oh that's a small appliance belt, goto a vacuum cleaner place for that and come back to us for real belts"


 
I ran into this problem with a 5 groove belt for my General. No 5 groove belts available other than from General @ $35 each. I called a couple of belt places and ended up talking to V-belts for Less. They told me to buy a belt with more than 5 grooves and cut off the grooves not needed, he said they do that all the time. So I bought 2-15 groove belts, a 6 groove belt and a 10 groove belt, all delivered for under $15.00. I cut the 6 groove belt down to 5 grooves and everything was goovey ( I couldn't help it). :biggrin:

Happy Turning
Tom


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## Wildman (Sep 18, 2013)

JoeFrog, found Berea had better prices on Slimline gold and chrome kits than PSI this morning before posting here.

Also found this Olympia kit on special or close out here. 
Olympia Ballpoint Satin Silver Pen Kit - CLOSE OUT SPECIAL!!: Arizona Silhouette

I do not make pens that need a cross refill any more while have made many Slimlines have not made the Olympia kit.


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## mhbeauford (Sep 18, 2013)

I have one consignment gallery that gets 40% and I get 60%, another gets 20% and I get 80%. Had one that wanted 50% and I declined. They want 60%for no investment in time or money, I think NOT!.


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## Waluy (Sep 18, 2013)

mhbeauford said:


> I have one consignment gallery that gets 40% and I get 60%, another gets 20% and I get 80%. Had one that wanted 50% and I declined. They want 60%for no investment in time or money, I think NOT!.



While I wouldn't personally accept a 40% share of something I made the consignment shop does have time and money invested in a sense. For one they have employees who handle the transactions this equals time and money for the store. Also they have retail space set aside for your product, again this is a money investment because every day your item doesn't sell is a day something else potentially could have sold in that retail space. Along those same lines is the fact that they are taking over other overhead cost associated with selling goods, I.e. electricity, space rent, and employee salaries (even if you sell it yourself you are still paying someone to sell it.).


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## WriteON (Sep 18, 2013)

DON'T CHEAP OUT is right....cheap is cheap is cheap. Cheap is a waste of time. Cheap is harmful or dangerous sometimes. I got a flat today. Pretty good size screw. I have a patch kit, tools, portable compressor, etc. I bought some really good pliers for a buck or two. I use the needle nose to pull the screw out of the tire. As I apply gentle pressure the pliers snap in my hand. A small piece flies. The broken handle was sharp enough to go deeply into my hand if took that direction. I think I'll go buy a few quality tools somewhere a little later.


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## underdog (Sep 18, 2013)

Ok. So Automotive Parts Stores may not have the belt.

How about a commercial/industrial bearings and drives store?

I buy bearings and belts for anything from a small shaper, to a 75HP cyclone in the cabinet shop I work for.

I've never had a problem getting the belts I needed. If someone is making them for Grizzly or Jet, you can get them from SOMEWHERE....


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## mywoodshopca (Sep 18, 2013)

Consignment?  Nope!  Tried that once, sold only one pen there due to the placement and one looked like it was stepped on and dragged under someones foot across the cement floor when I picked up my pens.

They want consignment?  75-80 % to you on consignment or 60% if they want to buy outright.

Your pens - YOU make the price!  Dont let them price you out of business and make you work worthless.


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## WriteON (Sep 18, 2013)

Consignent sales.........only if you know the person very well. 
I would want to get paid or partial payment with the option of return/refund if the pens have not been abused.


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## Smitty37 (Sep 21, 2013)

Dan Masshardt said:


> When a store wanted to sell your pens for $25, your response should have been an explanation of why that's simply not possible.
> 
> Penn state makes decent kits and not so decent kits. *The fun lines are throw always.* Meant to be able to make a pen for next to nothing.
> 
> The real lesson is, you get what you pay for.


Actually they're a pretty decent kit....


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## Smitty37 (Sep 21, 2013)

rodtod11 said:


> I have learned a lesson no doubt many of you here already knew. "DONT CHEAP OUT!!"
> 
> I wont mention any specific brand names but.....First I bought a cheap lathe to get started via "Craigslist" . Well, that turned out to be quite a "_Bear_" when the belt broke after a month or two on that lathe and nobody on the planet makes that belt anymore. So, my $200 lathe was now a $200 door stop. Went and got the variable speed mini lathe so many say has such a good reputation and it works soooo much better that my pen making was really "_ready for takeoff_".
> 
> ...


I never tried to sell pens on consignment but I did have other items on consignment and I never gave the store more than 40% and if the item sold well that number was negotiated down sometimes as low as 33%.  I'd be very careful about how this was handled...the store seems to have nothing at risk and is taking the lions share of the sale....


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