# Barrel Trimmers



## jhudson1977 (Oct 1, 2009)

Hello everyone.

Anyone have any secrets to a good barrel trimming system.  I have one that came with my beginners kit when I first got into this hobby, but that is only for 7mm tubes.  I've since found out that it doesn't work so well with the larger tubes, regardless of how well I aim!

So, I've seen those for $36 or so on Penn State and various other web sites, but I could have SWORN I saw the whole kit for $20 or so somewhere else.

Anyone have any ideas?

(P.S. From what I've read about squaring the ends on the lathe, I don't believe I have the equipment for that yet as I think I need a chuck and all that good stuff.)


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## Displaced Canadian (Oct 1, 2009)

I bought a set from Woodcraft and I think they were a reasonable price.


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## kenlicciardello (Oct 1, 2009)

Check with IAP user Daniel.  He has run group buys with the cutter head at $3 or $4 and the whole set for not much more.  

There are also several people selling delrin sleeves to fit over the 7mm shaft to fit whatever kit you are using.

Ken


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## jskeen (Oct 2, 2009)

Least expensive option is to get some spare 7mm tubes, mount them in some plain hardwood blanks, then turn them down to slip inside the tubes you want to square.  Make several extras, put them somewhere you won't forget....no, put them somewhere in plain sight with a large sign that says "new blank trimmer inserts".  That way next time you need to make a new set, and have forgotten where you put the new blank trimmer insert blanks, you can look around, notice them, and identify them by the sign.  DAMHIKT


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## jkeithrussell (Oct 2, 2009)

Belt sander.  It never needs sharpening.


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## Crashmph (Oct 2, 2009)

jkeithrussell said:


> Belt sander.  It never needs sharpening.



Just a little cleaning... :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:


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## Chief Hill (Oct 2, 2009)

jskeen said:


> Least expensive option is to get some spare 7mm tubes, mount them in some plain hardwood blanks, then turn them down to slip inside the tubes you want to square. Make several extras, put them somewhere you won't forget....no, put them somewhere in plain sight with a large sign that says "new blank trimmer inserts". That way next time you need to make a new set, and have forgotten where you put the new blank trimmer insert blanks, you can look around, notice them, and identify them by the sign. DAMHIKT


 

HA... GREAT IDEA.....(so simple too why did I not think of this?)
 I have been using my Belt/Disc sander and it works good but it seems to take longer. And the DUST PFFTT even with the DC.
I love your idea.  I have an old 5' round Hickory handle from my shovel that broke.  10 10" 7mm brass tubes.  Will get cracking on all the different sizes this afternoon. 

Thanks this will make life much easier with only 1 Mill to use.


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## YouthMinisterDan (Oct 2, 2009)

*trimmers*

Got a email today from Wood Whimsies....

They have theirs on sale this month for $17.95

woodnwhimsies.com


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## KenV (Oct 2, 2009)

I started with a PSI kit and found that the steel used was not holding an acceptable edge.  Moved to the Berea heads and found they were much more durable.  Also discovered that what that pen mills were a variation on the standard machinist tooling called a piloted end mill.   Many of those are designed for 1/4 inch pilots which is only .004 to .006 different from my smaller mandrels.  A piece of old mandrel (or d sized drill bit or d sized drill rod) and you can use standard tools that hold really good edges.

Paul Huffman (member here) will resharpen pen mills and tooling as a tool grinding pro for a moderate cost --  

Best rule of thumb -- get as good a steel as you can and have it sharpened by a pro with tool grinding gear for best function and long life.   

Keep your eye out for piloted endmills -- why -- price, life of edges, and odd sizes like the Panache which will not mill at 3/4 inch standard heads.


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## jskeen (Oct 2, 2009)

Chief Hill said:


> HA... GREAT IDEA.....(so simple too why did I not think of this?)
> I have been using my Belt/Disc sander and it works good but it seems to take longer. And the DUST PFFTT even with the DC.
> I love your idea.  I have an old 5' round Hickory handle from my shovel that broke.  10 10" 7mm brass tubes.  Will get cracking on all the different sizes this afternoon.
> 
> Thanks this will make life much easier with only 1 Mill to use.



I wish I could claim to have thought it up myself.  But no, got it off here somewhere.  The Method for not losing them is mine though, I have to use that for about everything.  And here's a hint on how to turn them down to the right size easier.  Dig out your mandrel, slide on a slim bushing for a spacer, then the blank trimmer insert, then another slim bushing, then a bare 7mm tube.  Then slide a bare tube for the pen you're making the insert for over the 7mm tube, add a couple more slim bushings, and tighten down lightly.  Rough the blank down and then slide the larger tube over the middle bushing to test fit till you get a nice snug fit down the whole length of the insert.  LABEL the insert with a sharpie, hit it with a little wax then part it off to just a touch shorter than the target tube.  Remember to debur the inside of the 7mm tube and Bob's your uncle.


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## zig613 (Oct 2, 2009)

I bought a carbide tip trimmer from IAP member Nolan (Harris Burl Supply) about a year ago.  Works like a charm.  Contact him to see if he is still making them.

Wade


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## MikeDe (Oct 3, 2009)

Check this out. 10 bucks for the whole set.
http://timberbits.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=4&products_id=58


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## Daniel (Oct 3, 2009)

If anyone Orders the set from above. Please let me know how they are quality wise. A year ago or so I got a batch of mills that where very poor quality. The hole in the cutter head was not even centered on some of them. At this price I am wondering if the manufacturer found someone to unload all those defective heads on. I hope not.


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## Mr Vic (Oct 5, 2009)

Gie this post a try: http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=48603&referrerid=5703 . I know you mention not having the stuff but? You can get the Transfer Punches at Harbour Freight on sale this week for about $8 and you can probably find the jacobs chuck there for less then $20. Not only will you be able to square blanks but will have the punches for dissasembly (if you ever have too). You'll find the chuck handy as well...You know...Multi tasking.


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## leehljp (Oct 6, 2009)

Three other links and ideas:

http://content.penturners.org/articles/2005/blanksquaring.pdf 

http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=50112 

http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=50144


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## dow (Oct 6, 2009)

Mr Vic said:


> Gie this post a try: http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=48603&referrerid=5703 . I know you mention not having the stuff but? You can get the Transfer Punches at Harbour Freight on sale this week for about $8 and you can probably find the jacobs chuck there for less then $20. Not only will you be able to square blanks but will have the punches for dissasembly (if you ever have too). You'll find the chuck handy as well...You know...Multi tasking.



I bought a MT2 jacobs chuck at harbor freight on Saturday for $8.00.


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## Nolan (Oct 16, 2009)

zig613 said:


> I bought a carbide tip trimmer from IAP member Nolan (Harris Burl Supply) about a year ago. Works like a charm. Contact him to see if he is still making them.
> 
> Wade


 


Yes still making them.....35.00 each


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## tool-man (Oct 16, 2009)

KenV said:


> ... Also discovered that what that pen mills were a variation on the standard machinist tooling called a piloted end mill.   Many of those are designed for 1/4 inch pilots which is only .004 to .006 different from my smaller mandrels.  A piece of old mandrel (or d sized drill bit or d sized drill rod) and you can use standard tools that hold really good edges.
> 
> Keep your eye out for piloted endmills -- why -- price, life of edges, and odd sizes like the Panache which will not mill at 3/4 inch standard heads.



Let me second the idea about using piloted end mills designed for metal working.  I pickup up one cheap on eBay and let me tell you the metal quality beats the Asian products by leaps and bounds.  Mine has a morse taper and I use it in the drill press while holding the blank with some vice grips.  With the leverage of the drill press the end mill cuts through anything with ease, and it is so simple to raise the cutter a bit to check for the shiny brass tube, and take another small cut as necessary.


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## cal10simmo (Dec 2, 2009)

When trimming Barrels of the larger pens I use a bushing that fits inside the tube to be trimmed the trimmer fits into the hole of the bushing and you get a nice straight trim without having to buy or make new sleeves as any penturner aquires a lot of different size bushings
Paul


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## randyrls (Dec 2, 2009)

jkeithrussell said:


> Belt sander.  It never needs sharpening.



Agreed;  A belt or disk sander and set of transfer punches works well for most pen blanks.  

The suggestion to make sleeve tubes for the blanks is a good one.  Write the name of the pen on the sleeve, and keep it (them) with the bushings.


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## dow (Dec 2, 2009)

cal10simmo said:


> When trimming Barrels of the larger pens I use a bushing that fits inside the tube to be trimmed the trimmer fits into the hole of the bushing and you get a nice straight trim without having to buy or make new sleeves as any penturner aquires a lot of different size bushings
> Paul



Me too.  AND, they're easy to make.  Just drill a scrap blank, glue in a 7mm tube, and turn to the desired outside diameter.  I've got a set for jr. gents, one for aeros, one for long clicks and cigars, etc.  Oh yeah, and I seal them with CA after turning.


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## dow (Dec 2, 2009)

tool-man said:


> Let me second the idea about using piloted end mills designed for metal working.  I pickup up one cheap on eBay and let me tell you the metal quality beats the Asian products by leaps and bounds.  Mine has a morse taper and I use it in the drill press while holding the blank with some vice grips.  With the leverage of the drill press the end mill cuts through anything with ease, and it is so simple to raise the cutter a bit to check for the shiny brass tube, and take another small cut as necessary.



Care to share who on ebay you got that from?  I just did a search for *piloted end mill* on ebay, and came up dry.  A search for *end mill* alone gave umpteen pages of things.

Also, what's a fair price to pay for one?

Thanks.
dow


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## Daniel (Dec 2, 2009)

Ditto Dow's question. I have searched all sorts of sites for "Piloted End Mills" and as far as I can tell no such tool exists. I have even searched places like MSC, McMAster Carr, and others. I have heard of them for years but never seen one except what we can get from penturning suppliers.


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## dow (Dec 2, 2009)

Daniel said:


> Ditto Dow's question. I have searched all sorts of sites for "Piloted End Mills" and as far as I can tell no such tool exists.



Hmm... Sounds like they may be made by S, L.N. & Y. Inc., better known as Sasquatch, Loch Ness & Yeti,  Inc. :biggrin:.

Maybe tool-man will answer back and give us a lead.


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## randyrls (Dec 2, 2009)

You should search for piloted counterbore, or countersink


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## JBCustomPens (Dec 2, 2009)

I personally use a belt sander. If you prefer to use a barrel trimmer, you can buy adapter shafts. They are available at many places in Delrin and steel. You can also get different size shafts for different kits that clean out the tubes unlike the adapter shafts. I found them at Arizona Silhouette. 

http://www.arizonasilhouette.com/Barrel_Trimers.htm

They are both great options. Hope this helps.


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## L1Truckie (Dec 2, 2009)

Jhudson....I believe your thinking of the universal kit at www.woodnwhimsies.com for 19.95...

http://www.woodnwhimsies.com/produc...rect)|utmcmd=(none)&__utmv=-&__utmk=243495302


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## tool-man (Dec 2, 2009)

Here is a commercial source for the piloted end mill.  Not cheap, $55.50.
http://www.fastenal.com/web/products/detail.ex?sku=7013376

That end mill has a shank dia. of 1/2", ok for the typical drill press.  And the pilot hole is 1/4" which is important.  What I do is use the various shafts that come with the pen blank trimmers we all have, insert the 1/4 shank in the piloted end mill, tighten a set screw, and you have exactly the same operational trimming capability as with a woodturning pen blank trimmer. A big plus is that the commercial end mills (counterbores) are made with quality high speed steel for use in metal working. 

I use my drill press for trimming blanks, especially antler.  After gluing in the brass tube I use a belt sander to get the ends more or less perpendicular to the tube.  I hold the irregular shaped blank with vice-grips, and place the blank up on the pilot shaft before turning on the drill press.  I have experienced no tendency for the end mill to grab the blank and twist it, but I do wear a glove. Of course the cutting edge of the counterbore is not touching the blank when the drill press is first turned on.  It is so easy to trim a little, lift the drill press arm slightly to inspect for appearance of the brass tubing, and trim a bit more as needed.    

I got my counterbore on eBay as a estate sale item.  I'm sure the person does not have them in quantity.  Here is a counterbore I found on eBay just now. (2 Dec 09) http://236n.sl.pt
Unfortunately the shank of the pilot is 3/8" - unsuitable for use with our pen trimming shafts - but this gives you an idea of what you can find on that site.



dow said:


> Care to share who on ebay you got that from?  I just did a search for *piloted end mill* on ebay, and came up dry.  A search for *end mill* alone gave umpteen pages of things.
> dow


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## low_48 (Dec 2, 2009)

Daniel said:


> Ditto Dow's question. I have searched all sorts of sites for "Piloted End Mills" and as far as I can tell no such tool exists. I have even searched places like MSC, McMAster Carr, and others. I have heard of them for years but never seen one except what we can get from penturning suppliers.



Search on eBay for counterbores. One guy sells them in lots of 10 for $150 without the pilots.


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## dow (Dec 3, 2009)

Hmm... Anybody have the actual shank diameter of the pen mill inserts handy?


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## tool-man (Dec 3, 2009)

I measured 3 of mine and they were .246 - .248.  So you need a 1/4" pilot hole I would say.


dow said:


> Hmm... Anybody have the actual shank diameter of the pen mill inserts handy?


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## dow (Dec 3, 2009)

tool-man said:


> I measured 3 of mine and they were .246 - .248.  So you need a 1/4" pilot hole I would say.



Well, maybe this'll help, then:

http://tinyurl.com/yj9j5hs

The ones with the 1/4" pilot hole start about half way down the page, and are available in diameters from 45/64" to 15/16" and from $31.10 to $35.90..


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## Daniel (Dec 3, 2009)

Although the link dow posted looks promising I am a bit shy on these. I have an entire selection of pilots that I have made over the years but would like to find a cutter head that is more durable than the ones that come with the kits. I don't want to buy a $35.00 cutter that does not work on the 20 plus pilots I have.



low_48 said:


> Search on eBay for counterbores. One guy sells them in lots of 10 for $150 without the pilots.


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## bradbn4 (Dec 3, 2009)

One option is to have a customized cutter head built - I think Paul H did my cutter head a year or so ago.  I was doing something that needed a larger than normal pen size and he was happy to help me out.


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