# Plastic or natural look to wood pens



## low_48 (Dec 6, 2006)

In a post by "rapost" in the show off you pen section, the idea was brought up to add more CA to fill the pores. I had been heading that way on my latest pens as well. But I am now at home on medical disablility while my doctor researches the idea that toxic exposure is ruining my health.[xx(] It appears that my pens will be taking an au naturale look to them in the VERY near future. Anyone else have any help or ideas with this? Anyone using tung oil or other "natural"(healthy) finishes to their work? Comments on the look of plastic versus natural pens and your sales results would be appreciated as well. My finishing days may be numbered. I've spent the past 35+ years of woodworking shrugging off the idea that this stuff may be hurting me, GUESS WHAT!!!!!!!!!!! I just got bit in the arse.


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## JimGo (Dec 6, 2006)

Sorry to hear that Rich.  I hope it turns out to be something that requires only a simple fix.

I only do CA finishes, so I can't offer any advice, but wanted to pass on my best wishes.


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## alamocdc (Dec 6, 2006)

Rich, that's too bad. If it's any consolation you just convinced me to start wearing my respirator EVERY time I apply a finish. Other than waxing (Ren Wax, etc.) naturally oily woods, I have no experience with "natural" finishes.


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## ctEaglesc (Dec 6, 2006)

Everyone is going to die of something.
Hang on a minute while I light another cigarette.
O.K. that being said.
Keep finishing your wood.
It sounds like the alternative sucks.
I'd rather die happy and early than live a long miserable life playing it safe.
BTW there is no such thing as premature death.
I have never seen a contract that stated how many days we are guaranteed.


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## Tea Clipper (Dec 6, 2006)

Rich, I use Enduro because I work in an enclosed space and cannot stand the fumes of the other finishes.  Enduro is a water based lacquer and there are no fumes/odor of any kind.  The only drawback is that it takes time for the finish to cure.  I give my pens a week to cure before I do my final sanding/polish.


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## pete00 (Dec 6, 2006)

YOu'll have to look up  something like "finishing furniture" to get a list of all the "natural" finishes. 

check russ site there is a page on no finish pens if i remember right.
http://www.woodturner-russ.com/


I've used tung oil, and shallacs on some pens and flat work. YOu just need to touch them up with furniture polish everyonce in a while. 

There is nothing wrong with no finish on a pen. The two i carry have no finish. Well one has shallac the other has none.

Here's what happens 
after turning buff with furniture polish or your choice of wax or something

in a little while (depends on usage) it will begin to look dingy
hit it with polish again and presto shine.

this will happen a half dozen times until the oils from the skin and the olis from the polish build up a nice natural look.

then keep hitting it with polish to keep the shine if you want.

YOu tell your customers your pens are like fine furniture that has to be polished everyone in a while....


good luck and good health.......pete


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## samuel07 (Dec 6, 2006)

How about an exhaust system? One that would completely remove the air to the outside.
Here is a post of the exhaust fan that I use.

http://www.penturners.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=19113

I don't exhaust it to the outside but when I use it while applying CA I cannot smell any CA fumes. Just place something like this directly in front of the lathe and vent it outside.


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## low_48 (Dec 6, 2006)

I've always had that same attitude Eagle, but after basically 5 years of fighting fatigue and other "odd" health occurances, sometime not knowing if I will wake in the morning since I feel so damn bad when I go to bed, my thought process is turning around real quick like!!!

I did a search on friendly finishes. I found that Tried and True finishes have 0 volatile organic compounds. I bought a can of that years ago and loved the smell. Time for a new can and see what it does on pens.

I usually have some kind of ventilation, but I have to handle it, sand between coats, and then there is the outgassing while the finish cures. I think we get more exposure than we think.

Thanks for the personal thoughts. It might not be the solvents, but something is messin' up the works!


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## TBone (Dec 6, 2006)

Time for a respirator.


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## Blind_Squirrel (Dec 6, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Tea Clipper_
> <br />Rich, I use Enduro because I work in an enclosed space and cannot stand the fumes of the other finishes.  Enduro is a water based lacquer and there are no fumes/odor of any kind.  The only drawback is that it takes time for the finish to cure.  I give my pens a week to cure before I do my final sanding/polish.



I just bought a gallon of Enduro.  The can says that it is sand-ready in 20 - 30 minutes.  When I talked to someone from General Finishes (the company that bought out Compliant Systems)he suggested that I use the Enduro as the sanding sealer and the finsih.  I have only done three pens so far, but I have to say that I am _very_ happy so far.  I put Enduro on as a sanding sealer, waited a couple of minutes and sanded with 400 grit.  I applied a second coat as a sanding sealer, waited a couple of minutes and sanded with 600 grit.  I applied a third coat, let that one sit for 20 minutes then sanded with MM through 3600.  I then applied 5 coats of Enduro and let it sit overnight.  The next day I MMed through 12000 and finished off with a coat of TSW.  The results are great!


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## jaywood1207 (Dec 6, 2006)

Not sure but would waterbase finishes be okay?  Could use a waterbase lacquer and then either dip or spray with dipping probably being the most user friendly.


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## low_48 (Dec 6, 2006)

Doing some research on the toxicity. Water base may still contain toluene, benzene, or other nasties. Water base will have VOCs of less than 300g/l and solvent base will have about double that. Here is a good link to "green" wood coatings with less than 350g/l. It certainly is not complete (didn't see General Finishes or Enduro), but is interesting to look at.
http://www.greenseal.org/resources/reports/CGR_wood_finish.pdf


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## Jim15 (Dec 6, 2006)

I can't help with your question, but want to wish you the best.


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## Tea Clipper (Dec 6, 2006)

Scott, you bought a gallon? Wow, I hope you do more than just pens!  The Enduro that I have is in quart cans and has lasted... shoot, I don't know, a long time!  One can is sanding sealer, the other can is clear gloss.  Anyway, I am ultra conservative to allow the finish to dry a week.  Yes, overnight might be fine... two-three days would be better... and a week... well, you get the idea.  I 'wet sand' with the sanding sealer to fill the grain if need be, and allow it to dry overnight.  Regardless of my method, I agree with you that the results are great!

Rich,  you should look into this.  Ernie at Bear Tooth Woods has small sampler bottles for sale so you don't have to buy the larger quart or [gulp] gallon cans!

[edited for spelling]


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## Blind_Squirrel (Dec 7, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Tea Clipper_
> <br />Scott, you bought a gallon? Wow, I hope you do more than just pens!  The Enduro that I have is in quart cans and has lasted... shoot, I don't know, a long time!  One can is sanding sealer, the other can is clear gloss.  Anyway, I am ultra conservative to allow the finish to dry a week.  Yes, overnight might be fine... two-three days would be better... and a week... well, you get the idea.  I 'wet sand' with the sanding sealer to fill the grain if need be, and allow it to dry overnight.  Regardless of my method, I agree with you that the results are great!
> 
> Rich,  you should look into this.  Ernie at Bear Tooth Woods has small sampler bottles for sale so you don't have to buy the larger quart or [gulp] gallon cans!
> ...



They have discontinued the quart cans. []


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## Dario (Dec 7, 2006)

Richard,

Sorry to hear that and I hope it is only with finishing products that you are reacting to.  Wood by itself can be nasty too so double check that you are okay with the wood types that you are using.

I tried 100% Tung oil but it cures super slow...a month and it is not yet fully cured [:0].  I now use, MinWax "Tung" Oil and it is descent but I guess you cannot use it.

If you want to go bare wood, try the hard oily woods like olivewood, rosewood (if you are fine with them), etc.  

Another one you might want to try are stabilized wood...since they already cured, maybe you will not react with them or if ever maybe just minimal.

Good luck and hope you find the best possible option.


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## txbob (Dec 7, 2006)

Richard,

Sorry to hear about your reaction. I hope recovery goes well and quickly.

I've used Tried and True on pens, and like it. The least toxic finish I've used is on the shelf at the grocery store: walnut oil. It's by the olive oil. Nice look and feel, a little slow to dry, dry time gets longer as the bottle ages, but usually 24 hours is enough. It's used to cook with, and in salad dressing, doesn't taste bad. And it has a very high flash point so autocombustion isn't supposed to be a problem. I still treat it like any other greasy rag, with care.

Hey, if you don't like it as a finish your wife can use the rest of the bottle cooking.

txbob


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## Draken (Dec 7, 2006)

Hope you feel better soon as well!  I had many unexplained bouts of fatigue over a few years, my  primary doctor was baffled.  After a couple of specialists later, one decided to have my CQ10 level checked.  Found out it was low, so I'm now on a daily OTC supplement.  Haven't had it come back since.  The CQ10 test isn't very common, the very busy lab I went to had never performed it before, and mishandled the sample, so they had to redo it.  CQ10 is also sometimes called CoEnzyme Q10.

Cheers,
Draken


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## Czarcastic (Dec 7, 2006)

OK... show of hands:
How many of you are sanding or applying finish without a respirator or ventilator?

I'm pretty sure not ONE of us has not heard or read about the dangers of breathing in fine sawdust or solvents.

Lets see...  Top-of-the-line ventilator....  $250.00?
Visit to Doctor / x-rays / MRI / Medication for the rest of your life / surgery(?) / Unable to do woodworking anymore...  ???

You choose.  Seems like a no-brainer to me.


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## DocStram (Dec 7, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Czarcastic_
> <br />OK... show of hands:
> How many of you are sanding or applying finish without a respirator or ventilator?
> 
> ...


Good point!  I know I look like a spaceman with my Trend Airshield. Plus I run an air scrubber and dust collector.  It was either that or stop turning after the respiratory infection I contracted last February. I quit my three packs of Camels a day about 30 years ago .... nor do I walk down the middle of I-75 on my way to work every morning.


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## ctEaglesc (Dec 7, 2006)

I ahve been using a DC boot at the lathe since I first started making pens.
No need to look like a space man.
I cannot smell CA when the DC is on, I watch the sanding dust go to the boot.
I am not worried about the chips,those I can pick out.


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## rapost (Dec 7, 2006)

> _Originally posted by low_48_
> <br />In a post by "rapost" in the show off you pen section, the idea was brought up to add more CA to fill the pores. I had been heading that way on my latest pens as well. But I am now at home on medical disablility while my doctor researches the idea that toxic exposure is ruining my health.[xx(] It appears that my pens will be taking an au naturale look to them in the VERY near future. Anyone else have any help or ideas with this? Anyone using tung oil or other "natural"(healthy) finishes to their work? Comments on the look of plastic versus natural pens and your sales results would be appreciated as well. My finishing days may be numbered. I've spent the past 35+ years of woodworking shrugging off the idea that this stuff may be hurting me, GUESS WHAT!!!!!!!!!!! I just got bit in the arse.[][][][][]



Wow!! I started a finishing controversy!!

Rich, Sorry to hear about the medical issues - hope the find something  and my prayers are with you - I'm going through similar unknown illnesses snd pain.

As for finishing - I'm trying to stay away from CA and other finishes that hide the feel of the wood. I love "Tried and True" on boxes I have make - it adds a bit of color and depth to the wood and also a wonderful feel. I've used it on a couple of pens and I think it makes the pen feel good in the hand. 


As for premature death...if I still have a blank on my shelf when my time comes, I'll be considering it premature!! 
[]


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## KP (Dec 7, 2006)

I'm only a smalltime penturner, but when I started making pens I just used my favorite woodworking finish, which is shellac. It gives a beautiful glossy finish, and the resin itself is harmless enough to be licensed as a food additive. It's dissolved in ethanol, which is harmless enough to drink (although of course there is a small amount of methanol mixed in the cheap cans of it so you won't drink it). The amount you could get in your system via inhalation from finishing couldn't possibly be of any consequence, I wouldn't think.

So I'd think shellac would be pretty safe no matter what health problems one might be having. Just a thought from someone who can't make it as a penturner so has to make a living as an ED doc.[] I'm learning, though.

low_48, good luck with the health issues.

Ken


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## sandking (Dec 8, 2006)

Being new to this now you got me worried.  i use CA as a finish, but I have a poor mans ventilation system set up.  I turn right infront of my garage window so I open it up, put a box fan with a furnace filter on it and let it rip.  the worklight over the lathe seems to show almost all the dust being drawn to the fan, but there is still dust in on some surrounding machines (mostly b/c I use compressed air to clean the dust).  I think most of the CA smell gets pulled away, but now I'm not sure.


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## Grizzlyss (Dec 8, 2006)

Sorry to hear about your health problems I can sympathise with that. I am fairly new to this hobbie, so you can take what I have to say for what it is worth. I have been using Tung oil exclusively for my pen finishing due to my concerns over using CA, and also because I have a pair of knives that a co-worker made over 16 years ago. They still look and feel fantastic, and he finished them with Tung oil, it was the only thing he would use.
When I first started I would apply a light coat of Tung oil with a rag and let the blank dry upstairs where it was warmer and more air ciculation. Then I started doing the finishing only downstairs and found that with the lower temps and less circulation it would take forever to dry, even with a heater fan on it, go figure. The I tried cutting the tung oil with minreal spirits at a 50/50 ratio, and it still took days to dry. After reading everything Russ had to say at http://www.woodcentral.com/russ/russindex.shtml I tried using tung oil as a turning polish. I applied the 50/50 mix with a cloth folded a couple of times, with the lathe on a slow to medium speed (#2 on my General Maxi-Lathe) and then gently press with the cloth until I feel the heat in my fingers, it can sure get hot if your not careful. Don't be surprised if you see smoke! I did but it wasn't that hot and my fingers didn't burn, well not yet anyways, LOL. The next day I then do the same thing with pure tung oil, I do it twice a day for as many coats as I wish. After the last coat it will take 2 days for the pen to dry in my basement. All my pens have stood up very well so far, and everyone loves the feel and look of them, they say it feels so natural. It is not a very high gloss finish like CA, it is more of a semi-gloss, but then again I never did like a high gloss, I think it makes things look like plastic (my personal opinion, again take it for what it is worth). When I figure out how to attach some pics I will gladly include a few for your amusement. I hope that you will find this of some help, again, I am fairly new to this but I have read an awful lot about this and learned everything I can from others so it isn't total cr@p,(my personal opinion again, take it for what it is worth). Live long, and good health.
Sheldon


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## bob393 (Dec 9, 2006)

Richard,

Sorry to hear that and I hope it is only the CA that you are reacting to because wood itself can be just as irritating.

Looks like it's time for a power resporator, CA just makes me gag and cough. Cedar and Mahogany give me a bloody nose. 

But what the heck.


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