# CA Glue as a finish, how I do it



## RussFairfield (Dec 1, 2009)

I have posted an article on how I use CA glue as a finish, with 5 YouTube video clips that are linked and viewable on the page. It is how I do it, and does not include anything about how other people do it. 

If you are having problems with CA as a pen finish, perhaps this article might help.

http://www.woodturner-russ.com/PenPages-FinishingPens-CAglue.html


----------



## gothycdesigns (Dec 2, 2009)

Thanks Russ. Will check it out. Currently working on a pen now that will have a CA finish.


----------



## RAdams (Dec 2, 2009)

I had a problem the very first time i tried it, since then i have learned that a very light hand is vital. Wish i could watch your vids. I am always down to learn new tricks!


----------



## gothycdesigns (Dec 3, 2009)

I had a chance to watch the vids. I'll have to try it next time. I'm kinda too far with the one I said I am working on. I have done only 2 pens with the CA finish. I did a thick CA, brushed it on to even the coat. and sanded. I probable did it 4 thick coats. I would say it was a process. But Russ's vids look more easier to apply by simply doing quick passes.

Thanks again for the info. I'll have to save the vids.

Not to hijack the thread, but this is how mine turned out just for an example.


----------



## altaciii (Dec 3, 2009)

Russ, Thank you for the vids.  They explain alot of what I was doing wrong.  I have had my share of expletives at the lathe with finishing.  Hopefully these will belay those a bit.


----------



## W3DRM (Dec 3, 2009)

Russ,

Yet more great videos from you!!! Am wondering if you have considered uploading these new videos to the IAP Library so all of them can be kept together for all IAP members to use? There is already a special Library section for your existing videos so they could be added to that. Folks are more likely to see them in the IAP Library.

Thanks again for sharing your "secrets" with the rest of us. I am a fan of CA finishing and am getting better at it all the time. It's just practice, practice until I get it right.


----------



## HawksFeather (Dec 3, 2009)

Russ,

I have watched your videos in the past and they have helped me more that you will ever know.  I also appreciate the fact that you say that this is the way you do it and unlike some not the ONLY way to do it. 

Jerry


----------



## Jon-wx5nco (Dec 3, 2009)

Russ,
I watched your video and followed _most_ of your steps.  The only thing I didn't do was sand between layers on the thin (red) CA.  I also didn't use an accelerator at the end because I forgot to buy it.  After 6 or 7 coats of CA, I let the blank spin on the lathe for about 5 minutes.  I then started the wet sanding process with MM up to 12K.  The finish looked like polished glass.  After I assembled the pen, I took it in the house to show the wife.  Needless to say, its her pen now.   

The wood used was plain 'ol maple
The kit used was a Slimline pen kit. 

Hopefully I can get the pen from her long enough to take some pictures LOL :biggrin:


----------



## jimbob91577 (Dec 3, 2009)

Regarding the CA/BLO finish - are there any pro's/con's to using tung oil versus BLO?  

Will Tung Oil react differently with the CA glue versus BLO?


----------



## RussFairfield (Dec 3, 2009)

You can use any drying oil or any oil finish, but Boiled Linseed Oil does it better at about 1/4 the cost.

I have no idea why Boiled Linseed Oil works better than other finishing oils, but it does.


----------



## judgesawdust (Dec 4, 2009)

*Still trying for the perfect CA finish!!*



RussFairfield said:


> You can use any drying oil or any oil finish, but Boiled Linseed Oil does it better at about 1/4 the cost.
> 
> I have no idea why Boiled Linseed Oil works better than other finishing oils, but it does.


 
Russ,

Thanks so much for your video tutorials; like the others, I am deeply indebted to you for your tuteledge. I have tried (some with success, others not so much) to get the CA finish perfect. My most recent blank just would not dry. Perhaps I wasn't waiting long enough, too cold in the garage, ?? but I was waiting over 5-10 min between coats! I was using Berea's "thick" to try to build a bigger layer. Since it hadn't fullly dried when I tried to sand, it became a gummy mess:curse::bulgy-eyes::laugh: and the blank was pretty disaterous. 

I had tried the BLO then CA then BLO method I saw on another video earlier. I had some success with it, but again not perfect.

So far, this CA is tough! And I thought I was a decent WW'er! These pens are going to be gifts for my staff, so I want them to look good. Any other hints Russ, would be welcomed.

Thanks, Jeff


----------



## MikeDe (Dec 4, 2009)

Thank you, Russ. I've done a total of 3 pens so far using CA as a finish. I must say I didn't have the problems that a lot of folks said they did to start with. Probably 'cause I read so much on it and watched so many videos on it and read all of the posts on the forum on it. However, I used it with BLO and now I know why I can't get the glass like shine. I do get a very nice soft glow for a shine but haven't been able to reach WOW. On the 3 pens I've used 6 coats of medium CA along with BLO. Are you simply saying that if I eliminate the BLO it will come to a glassy shine?

MikeDe


----------



## NewLondon88 (Dec 4, 2009)

Thanks for this article, Russ. I know there are a lot of techniques out there
and they list many reasons for why things work the way they do. It can be
difficult to sort out what is actually going on from what we THINK is going
on. This should help a lot of people get the finish they're looking for.

I did have one question about something I read, though.

"I expect the finish to be a matte when using the BLO because there are oil 
molecules in the surface and an oil makes any finish have a duller gloss than 
if it weren't there. I could use any other oil for the same thing. Mineral Oil works, 
but the non-curing oil will always be an imbedded liquid in the surface and the 
finish can never be polished to as high a gloss as with a cured oil or no oil at all."

How does this square with the French Polish technique? This finish uses shellac
with mineral oil embedded in the layers (hundreds or thousands of micro-layers)
and has one of the (arguably) nicest gloss finishes you could hope for. Is there
something else going on that is counteracting the dulling effects of the mineral oil?
Or is the mechanical action of the polish creating a sort of emulsion 'on-the-fly' ?

I'm not suggesting we use a French Polish on pens, and that isn't a 'quick and easy'
finish to do, by any means.

Thanks again
[/font]


----------



## RussFairfield (Dec 4, 2009)

There is a difference between shellac and CA glue, and a French Polish and a Friction Polish.

French Polish is different because it is using shellac which behaves different from CA glue, and the oil and shellac are never mixed into an emulsion. The shellac and the oil are placed on the rubber alongside of each other without mixing them together, and the rubber hits the wood with the shellac in the lead so it goes down on the surface and the oil goes on over the top. The oil is always ON top of the shellac, not IN the shellac. 

We use the same oil and shellac with a Friction Polish, but it is mixed into an emulsion in a bottle. That means the oil has to come out of an emulsion and rise to the top of shellac film. Otherwise it is trapped in the finish and we get the soft and poor finish that friction polish has a reputation for being. 

The shellac friction polish finish can be as good as the French Polish if we get the emulsion really hot (friction) on the wood so the oil is boiled to the surface and the shellac is melted onto the surface in a continuous film. This is difficult to do because that means about 160F temperature, and that is way hotter than most wood turners are willing to cope with and burned fingers.

We can also get a better friction polish film if it is applied just as I describe the CA/BLO finish. Put on a wet coat of shellac, and follow that with a light coat of oil. We can also put both on the same piece of cloth, but alongside of each other, and apply them to the rotating pen with the shellac leading the oil just as with the French Polish rubber. Either way, the oil is always on top of the shellac, just as it is with the French Polish, and the shellac will be a harder and more durable finish just as it was with the French Polish. 

Nobody ever does this because we love our Friction Polishes in a bottle because they are fast and easy to use. The price we pay for the speed and convenience is a shellac finish that isn't all that it could be.  A shellac Friction Polish emulsion will always be softer than one where the oil was layered on top of the shellac as in a French Polish. The pen finish that kept the shellac and oil separated will have a hardness similar to that of a nitrocellulose lacquer.


----------



## TowMater (Dec 4, 2009)

Russ,

Thank you very much for the article. Just so you know I posted a link to this on another forum giving you credit (of course). If you'd like to see that post please PM me and I'll send you the link.


----------



## nava1uni (Dec 4, 2009)

Thank you for sharing your knowledge and methods with us.  I watched all of the videos several times and learned quite a lot.


----------



## NewLondon88 (Dec 4, 2009)

RussFairfield said:


> French Polish is different because it is using shellac which behaves different from CA glue, and the oil and shellac are never mixed into an emulsion. The shellac and the oil are placed on the rubber alongside of each other without mixing them together, and the rubber hits the wood with the shellac in the lead so it goes down on the surface and the oil goes on over the top. The oil is always ON top of the shellac, not IN the shellac.



Ah.  The little light bulb just turned on over my head. This is why they
apply it with the rubber moving in a "sideways figure 8" instead of a circle?
(turning the wrist as you move)
That way, your leading edge is always shellac and never oil?


----------



## Builderguy (Dec 5, 2009)

Great videos, Russ. I do have one question if you are still checking this thread. Do you use the same applicator pad through the entire CA application or do you use a new one for each coat? Thanks!


----------



## RussFairfield (Dec 5, 2009)

Never though about that. I use the same end of the same applicator to apply 3 to 5 coats of CA on a pen because the CA is still soft in the applicator.  You may have to use both ends of an applicator on a single pen if it took lomger for some reason and the glue became a hard lump. I get 2 pens per applicator most of the time because there are 2 ends.


----------



## Builderguy (Dec 5, 2009)

Thank you, Russ. I really appreciated your videos!


----------

