# tap, die, threading sizes - etc



## jjudge (Jan 14, 2012)

I've mined out various sizing info and stuck it in this spreadsheet.
[attached  pen_related_sizes.xls]

There was talk about some chart being assembled, but I never found it ... so I put this together.

*Please validate, post info so I can incorporate, & correct me where I'm wrong, etc.*

This thing needs improvement -- and I'll be doing that (e.g., tenon & drill bit sizes)
It could use more NON-fountain pen info (e.g., rollerball nib threads) and references to kits (e.g., does that nib feed assembly match the Baron kit feed? will the Jr Gent RB section fit that tap?)

This includes:
metric tap/die sizes, some non-metric, 
related kits, nibs, feeds, and sometimes some drill bit or tenon info,
and some URLs (links) to places that sell the item (indy-pen-dance, silverpenparts, etc.)

-- joe


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## jjudge (Jan 14, 2012)

*PDF version*

PDF version for those w/o Excel


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## mb007 (Jan 14, 2012)

This is GREAT!  Thank you for putting this together!


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## Dalecamino (Jan 14, 2012)

Excellent ! Thanks Joe. I needed this a few months ago, and may need it again. This will be real handy for many of us.


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## 043Turning (Jan 15, 2012)

this is great work


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## Old Lar (Jan 15, 2012)

thank you!


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## Jim15 (Jan 15, 2012)

Thank you Joe.


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## Wayne (Jan 15, 2012)

Joe, this is great! Make sure this ends up in the library.


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## Pete275 (Jan 15, 2012)

Thanks Joe this is good stuff. Is there a tap and die set that covers most of those sizes that is worth getting?

Wayne


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## jjudge (Jan 15, 2012)

*answers*

@wracinowski -- once done, updated, and cooked-enough ... how to get it into the library?

@pete275 -- here is just my thoughts:

You should get corresponding dies for any tap you get -- because you'll want to make something to hold the threaded thing on your lathe. So, having a die to thread up some acrylic or acetal rod to hold in the collet or chuck, is nearly necessary.

You need a cap tap and die, preferrably multi-start. But, folks say it could be more inexpensive single-starts. This should be in a large enough size -- 12mm or 14mm. 

You need a way to connect the nib + feed, or nib + feed + section, or rollerball nose cone, into your pen body. This is where it gets annoying.

Answers, fountain pen centric, sorry:

Summary = cap tap + die, section tap/die, nib feed assembly tap (for FPs). For RBs, skip the nib tap and make sure to get a larger cap size.

*#1 -- Buy the $1 couplers*
The metal couplers from BearToothWoods.com will save you from the agony of M10x1 and M12 threading and breakage.

These are the metal El Grande replacement couplers. You can use the El Grande sections to fit right into them.

Yes, evidently tapping M10x1 and threading M12x0.8 on top of that leave a very ... weak ... plastic ... weak ... joint between the body and the section. So, these metal replacements are available. Then all you need to do is glue those into the body -- and use existing section + nib, or make your own M10x1 section. I am starting to do this now, as I am hating the M10 & M12 weakness.

*#2 -- make your own sections*
Buy the nib feed taps ... one or both ... depending if you want to use the smaller #5 or larger #6 nibs. Its a matter of look and proportion, to me.

Note that this might "lock" you into Bock, Heritance, Schmidt, whatever. I need to check the chart, I'm not 100% sure of this statement. I've been using the pre-made sections, so I'm just at this decision point now.

*#3 -- make your own sections, again*
This also means you have a choice to make. How will these nibs + feeds, once threaded into some acrylic, get attached to the body?

I currently use M10x1 (for premade sections with nibs), and now bought M9x1 or M9x.75 taps and dies. So, I'm ready to start my own sections now. You can choose whatever size you want.

I chose 9mm because its between (a) I believe the inner diameter (converter, ink cartridge) is near 1/4" (~6.5mm) ... just larger than the nib feed tap; and (b) the M12x0.8x2.4 triplestart tap/die I already have for the cap.

... and I know the M10x1 and M12x0.8 are WAY too thin. So, M9 should be strong enough and visually good enough.

-- joe


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## Wayne (Jan 15, 2012)

Joe,
I think you can contact TomW IAP Library Manager.


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## Haynie (Jan 15, 2012)

Are these special buy taps and dies?


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## jjudge (Jan 16, 2012)

*special?*

A lot of the taps & dies are special orders.  I put links into the spreadsheet for a lot of those odder sizes. 

These custom ones are mostly the ones that have to match an existing pen size (e.g., Bock feed assembly). The ones you choose to use for mating your section to the body are your choice ... so choose a common threading 

For cost example, the multi-start taps & dies are expensive, custom orders. The M12 x .8 multistart tap & die I bought (a couple years ago) was nearly $200 in a group buy.  

Meanwhile, a M12x1 "normal" single-start tap is $9.60 at Victornet


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## Parson (Jan 16, 2012)

If anyone decides to buy something from victornet, I need a couple of small things and I don't have enough for a minimum order.


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## Haynie (Jan 16, 2012)

The only taps I need are for the feed assy.  Trying to justify the cost right now.


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## wiset1 (Jan 17, 2012)

Well, I'm new to the idea of the whole Tap and die sets, but I know I'll need some here soon with the purchase of a metal lathe knowing that a gear change will be a headache so the tap and die option may be a solution.  This is a fantastic thread...knowing which tap, die, and drill to use...man I need help with this.


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## firewhatfire (Jan 17, 2012)

good info here for a beginner, and I wanted to be able to find it again


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## jjudge (Jan 18, 2012)

*Call for updates -- *

I got email from folks, with some tweaks and some Pelikan nib assembly sizes.

I need to update some comments to include Majestic and the larger kit assemblies.

I'll post an updated spreadsheet before the weekend.

-- joe


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## LeeR (Feb 19, 2012)

jjudge said:


> PDF version for those w/o Excel


 
Just an FYI ...

If you do not have Excel, you can download for free from Oracle the OpenOffice suite of Office-compatible products (compatible with Word, Excel, Powerpoint, etc.)

I have Office 2007 on our home desktop PC, but use OpenOffice on my laptop (the PC I am using now). The biggest downside is the user interface, it is more like the old Office applications, and not the newer 2007 style. Not a huge disadvantage, and if you are not accustomed to the newer Office interface, a erally minor point.

I did open jjudge's Excel file in "Calc", just to make sure all was fine, and it was.

BTW -- great reference -- I've not gone kitless yet, and the whole threading subject is quite confusing, with so many options.


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