# Fought me the whole way & I lossed.



## stevers (Apr 21, 2008)

Hi All,
This closed end Jr. Gent fought me all day and it never did came around. I wound up sanding the finish off twice and never could get it right. I've never had so much trouble with a CA finish. Actually CA/BLO. The wood is Bubinga. You can see the trouble spot, near the end of the lower barrel. The first time I just screwed up the application. So I took it off (to the wood) and tried again. The next one was better, until I tried to put on Ren wax. The CA turned almost completely white. ?????? So one more time, sanded a little and just sprayed on clear poly. And the white spot still showed through where you see. I pretty much gave up. By the third time, I was in jeopardy of under sanding it. The upper barrel is already close to being under the CB. 
Oh, and then theres the fact that I haven't seen a tutorial on turning a closed end cap style pen. Duh. I felt like a dumb-ass. 
So, long story short, (I know, too late) I screwed the pooch big time on this one.  
I guess we need to foul one up once in a while to keep things in perspective. 
By the way, does anyone know where to find a tutorial on closed end Gents? If I have to, I will go to AS, but I'd rather not. No offense Bruce but money is not plentiful these days. The mandrel buy was my splurge for this month. 
Any ideas as to what went wrong on the finish end? The wood, the CA/BLO combo or just the dumb-ass applying it?[B)][B)]


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## rherrell (Apr 21, 2008)

I used to get spots like that but since I quit using BLO they've mysteriously gone away.[:0] Now it's straight CA sanded with 400 and 600 wet/dry(used dry) between coats. Screw-ups are now FEW and FAR between.
Also, I quit wiping the blanks with liquid between coats. Now it's compressed air only. If you MUST wipe with something use accelerator.


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## randyrls (Apr 21, 2008)

> _Originally posted by rherrell_
> 
> I used to get spots like that but since I quit using BLO they've mysteriously gone away.[:0] Now it's straight CA sanded with 400 and 600 wet/dry(used dry) between coats. Screw-ups are now FEW and FAR between.
> Also, I quit wiping the blanks with liquid between coats. Now it's compressed air only. If you MUST wipe with something use accelerator.



The devil is in the details...

Apply the CA to the blank and use a plastic baggie to smooth it out.  THEN use BLO on a paper towel to complete the finish.  Don't over-work or apply too much CA.

I'm not sure bubinga falls in this category, but cleaning the blank with denatured alcohol would be a good idea.


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## redfishsc (Apr 21, 2008)

I've chased this weasel around and around the mulberry bush. I have done  Lord knows how many CA finishes that end this way. 

With BLO. 

Without BLO. 

Wiping with DNA. Wiping with Acetone. Lacquer thinner. Turpentine. 

No wiping--- air chuck. 

Different brand CA. 

Different sandpaper. 

Different woods. 

Accelerator. 

No accelerator. 

Full moon. New moon. half moon. 

Moon pie. 

Cherry pie. 

High tide. Low tide. Voodoo. Sarcasm. Cynicism. Weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Vanity of vanity, says the preacher. 



White blotchy things no matter what I did. 


Therefore, I seldom bother with it and I spray with what I am used to spraying on kitchen cabinets: catalyzed varnish (lacquer will work fine). Spray on 4-8 coats, allow to cure (lacquer needs a week), and micromesh to a high gloss. 

I build up 8-20 pens and spray them all at once. You'd be amazed at how much time you save in finishing when you do a bunch all at once.


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## redfishsc (Apr 21, 2008)

> _Originally posted by stevers_
> 
> Any ideas as to what went wrong on the finish end? The wood, the CA/BLO combo or just the dumb-ass applying it?[B)][B)]



I can't answer that question (or else I wouldn't have posted what I just posted) but I can offer you this old saying: 

"Burn me once, shame on you. Burn me twice, shame on _me_. 

Don't spend your precious hours fighting something like this. Once you find that you are getting that hazy spot, use Acetone to totally remove the CA. Let it dry out good (20 mins tops). Then try a new finish, like you did. If I had to guess about the poly hazing up on you, I'd have to say it was due to the CA underneath it (even if you thought you removed it all, you may not have--- Acetone works well at this).


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## stevers (Apr 22, 2008)

> _Originally posted by redfishsc_
> 
> I've chased this weasel around and around the mulberry bush. I have done  Lord knows how many CA finishes that end this way.
> 
> ...



Thanks for doing all the footwork for me.[}]

The only reason I spent so much time arguing with this one, I don't get to play with the nicer kits often. Lately it's been slims and euros and the occasional cigar. Thats why I picked up five spare sets of tubes for the Jr.


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## jskeen (Apr 22, 2008)

One thing you might try, is to buff the end of that pen with some white diamond, or possibly just with some wax of some kind.  Not so much to change the surface shine, but to generate some heat that will penetrate under the top layers of the finish and possibly finish the cure of the layers that are cloudy.  I have had this fix some problems with cloudy spots, and some others I buffed right through the finish without having the cloudy parts go away.  You never know, but the good think is you can try it without having to change anything, or even disassemble the pen.  just don't buff onto the metal parts if it's a gold kit.  DAMHIKT!

One observation, is that the worst of the fogging seems to be about where the end of the tube would be inside the blank.  It could be some kind of reaction through the wood between the finish on the outside and the glue on the inside holding the tube in.  Stranger things have been known to happen.


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## stevers (Apr 22, 2008)

James,
I didn't notice that. It does seem to be right at the point where the tube ends. I'm going to look into this more. Thanks.


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## GBusardo (Apr 22, 2008)

I havwe tried Redfish's routine (except for the cherry pie) also.  I have gotten better, but the problems still pop up on me sometimes.  One thing I have tried that sometimes works for me is to clean up the blank with some EEE.  Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doens't. If all else fails, I too will wipe off the finish with acetone and use Enduro.


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## rdunn12 (Apr 22, 2008)

There are as many ways to apply ca as there are members on IAP.Here is what I do and what works for me.Turn blank and sand as needed.Usually starting at 400 grit and sanding to 1000.Clean blank.With chemical of choice,I use denatured alchohol.Say a prayer.Put on latex gloves and the usual protective garb.Turn lathe on and apply ca in a quick back and forth motion using an old t-shirt.It should shine.Hit it with accelerator.Repeat 4 more times.Go back to 400 grit and lightly sand while watching the shine line across the blank.Hopefully from the light you have mounted above the lathe.When the shine line goes dull all the way across it is smooth.Micro mesh all they way to 12000,use novus #2 twice.Apply Meguiars Gold Class car wax and there you go,done.


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## workinforwood (Apr 27, 2008)

Tell you what...that cloud might go away by simply spinning the pen with some plastic polish.  The cloud will still be there but you won't see it and over time the cloud might settle, not that it'll even matter anymore.  I've had some clouded pens I tossed in the drawer and several months later pulled them out and the clouds were gone.  seems to depend how severe the cloud, and that's not a severe cloud you have there.

Otherwise...never just toss it out.  Toss it in the drawer.  Some time later, come back to it.  You may by then have a new way of doing things, new solutions arrive, who knows.  You can always build up the finish when it gets to be undersized.


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## RussFairfield (Apr 27, 2008)

I see this as an internal problem rather than something you did with the CA glue on the outside.

This is what the wood looks like when it gets very thin, and just before you break throuh. You are looking at whatever is inside of the hole from the other side. That sharp line suggests that the end of the tube is very close to the surface. It also suggests that the drill got too hot while drilling the hole.


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## stevers (Apr 27, 2008)

Thanks Russ. It's a relief to know that it's not totally because of the finish. I was doing so well with the CA/BLO. Now it will be easier the next time I use it. I wont be questioning myself.


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## huskerturner (Apr 27, 2008)

Steve,
I have had the same problem, I was only using CA for my finishes.  From what I have read the problem stemmed from the use of spray accelerant with the CA.  Some finishes turned out nice but some I got the white crap.  Here is a pic of an expensive, beautiful piece of wood that turned out with the ghosting effect.  I am going to try the CA/BLO method and see if that will make my finishes a little more consistant.


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## stevers (Apr 27, 2008)

GT,
Give the CA/BLO a try. It improved my finishing considerably. And it's 10 times quicker then CA alone. I don't have to go through all the grits any more. If I want it a little shinier, I just hit it with some plastic polish and it shines up nice.
Just my 2 cents.


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## redfishsc (Apr 27, 2008)

I sure wish I had the same luck with the CA/BLO that you all do. If I stay with the satin-dull finish that the CA/BLO leaves, I am fine, but the moment I try to micromesh or polish the finish, the white spots show (they are there to begin with but are hidden by the satin sheen before buffing).


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