# Scroll saw failure



## Neededwill (Jun 24, 2013)

So after trying to get the hang of my new scroll saw I have decided to return it.  I guess it just wasn't for me, I will stick with my coping saw.


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## Gary Beasley (Jun 24, 2013)

They take a bit of learning for such a simple seeming tool. What was your problems?


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## Neededwill (Jun 24, 2013)

Trying to get the blade tension right seemed to be the biggest thing.  Then cutting on an angle seemed to be very different that cutting flat.  The blade seemed to be cutting at the top as you look at it but the bottom only cut a small area, I thought I was making progress.  I am a beginner with it but it just is not my tool of choice.


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## Gary Beasley (Jun 24, 2013)

Flicking the blade and listening to the high pitched ping will get the tension. A good blade will make your cutting way better. The torqued cut is caused by pushing the wood too fast in the cut and bowing the blade. You have to let off the pressure regularly to get back in line with the blade as well. Thicker wood needs a lower tooth count. 
You should learn not to give up too fast, we all went through mistakes like that. If you decide to try again later check out Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum and look for Kenbo and his spectacular scrollsaw works. He has a few videos too.
Another resource is my local woodworking clubs Youtube channel
Gwinnett Woodworkers - YouTube


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## jttheclockman (Jun 24, 2013)

You did not say what brand or type of scrollsaw. The use of a scrollsaw will require patience. If you do not have this get rid of the saw right now and do not try it again. You will never succede at it. Now if you have some patients and are willing to learn it is quite simple. Material is definetly cut slower with a scrollsaw. 

You mention cutting at an angle. It takes some practice because it is not a natural way to cut. You need to let the blade do the cutting and let your hands relax. The blade needs to always be cutting straight up and down. You have a tendency to push the material too fast thus not letting the lower end of the blade to catch up with the cut.

Tension is easy. As mentioned each saw has a method of tensioning. You want a crisp ping when plucked. Hard to describe. If you push on the front of the blade you do not want more than about 3/16" deflection. Again each saw has a different way of holding the blade so make sure the blade is straight up and down. A scrollsaw will cut very fine details if you know what you are doing and take the time to learn. Lets face it you took the time to learn to turn a pen. Take some time before you throw the towel in. 

many good books out there as well as videos on utube.

PS blade choice is also very important. Not one blade does it all.


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## opfoto (Jul 18, 2013)

I agree with the comments above.....I decided to try my hand a scrolling and I learned very quickly that I needed to slow down, way down. My saw is a VS model and I even slowed the speed down as slow as it would go and sped it up as my skills improved. I wouldn't give up....it can be an enjoyable time. Patrick Speilman has a few books that may help.....There used to be a scrollsawing forum. You can get a lot of information. Good luck!


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## plantman (Jul 18, 2013)

There are three factors that will make Scroll Sawing fun and rewarding. Most important is the blade you are using. You need a quality blade designed for the job you want to do. There are hundreds, maybe thousands, of different blades designed to do a single job well. Even a cheap saw will cut better with a quality blade. I keep maybe 50 different style and size blades to use, depending on what my material is. There are extra fine blades for small work, standard wood blades for softwoods and hardwoods, metal cutting blades, blades for plastics, you can even get diamond coated blades for glass work, and sanding boards for your saw. Second. The saw you are using is also very important. My first saw was an AMT. I hated it!!!! Second was the saw for my Shop Smith. Quite an inprovement, but I got tired in mounting it to the power head each time I wanted to use it. 3ed was a stand alone Delta C Arm saw with a larger circular table, VS, and light. Bad thing about this saw was the fact you needed 2 40# sand bags to keep it from moving across the floor, and if you used it to long, your hands and arms would go numb. That's not a joke, ask any old scroller !!! Other than that, it worked great. I still use this saw once in a while. 4th and present day saw is a 20 inch DeWalt VS parailel arm Scroll Saw. No sand bags, no numb hands, hardly any noise at all. As a matter of fact, the salesman sold me on this machine when he stood a nickle on end on the table, turned on the saw, and cut out a piece of wood without the coin ever tipping over. Our local woodworking store will let you try different machines before you commit to buying something that isn't going to do the job you want it to. You may also want to take a class, visit Youtube, or watch a demo at your local tool store. As you may have already guessed, as your skill level goes up, so does the price of the machine to get you to that next level. That first saw made me swear off scrolling for quite awile, but the correct blades, and a better saw made it a very fun hobby. Patrick Speilman, who was a personal friend of mine, and a member of our woodworkers guild, does have many excellent books in the market on Scroll Sawing and woodworking in general. Unfortunately Patrick is no longer with us. May he rest in peace!!! Jim S


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## PaulDoug (Jul 18, 2013)

I have the Dewalt and although I don't practice enough to get good at it I still enjoy scrolling.  I'd like to get the time to experiment with different blades so I can learn what works best for what.  

I always thought I wanted a Hawk scroll saw but when I bought a saw I didn't want to spend $1100+ for one. Now I see lots of Hawks on Craigslist for $400 or less!  Less than I paid for my Dewalt.  Makes me wonder if they are as good as they are cracked up to be.  There were 10 of them on the Portland, Ore. Craigslist today.  The most expensive was $700, the largest model, in like new condition and many extras to go with it.  Most the rest were the 20 in models  for $400 or less.  Anyway, keep at it.  I find it very relaxing and would like to learn more about it.


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## seamus7227 (Jul 18, 2013)

Well, not to jump on this wagon, but since everyone else is trying to be a motivator, maybe I can be too! It makes me feel good to know first of all that what you are going through is exactly the same thing I went through when I first started. I bought books and watched videos and simply learned by just practicing all the time. Boy was I scared when the thought crossed my mind about trying to cut out coins to make pens! But ultimately I am glad I stuck with it. There is something very rewarding when you finish cutting out that detailed design on wood. Knowing that YOU did it, it's just a great feeling! I hope that you might reconsider your thoughts and give it a shot! You are more than welcome to give me a call anytime if you have questions. I will do my best to answer them for you.


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## tomas (Jul 19, 2013)

I belive there are differenct tooth patterns available for the blade that make a difference in how they cut.  Also, if you have a piano or a guitar handy, I think the correct tension is a high C. ;-)

Tomas


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## plantman (Jul 19, 2013)

PaulDoug said:


> I have the Dewalt and although I don't practice enough to get good at it I still enjoy scrolling. I'd like to get the time to experiment with different blades so I can learn what works best for what.
> 
> I always thought I wanted a Hawk scroll saw but when I bought a saw I didn't want to spend $1100+ for one. Now I see lots of Hawks on Craigslist for $400 or less! Less than I paid for my Dewalt. Makes me wonder if they are as good as they are cracked up to be. There were 10 of them on the Portland, Ore. Craigslist today. The most expensive was $700, the largest model, in like new condition and many extras to go with it. Most the rest were the 20 in models for $400 or less. Anyway, keep at it. I find it very relaxing and would like to learn more about it.


 
:redface: I felt your pain. When a wanted a scroll saw, my choises were the $1100.00 Hawk, the $1400.00 Heagner, or the AMT at $150.00. Not knowing if I would like scrolling, I opted for the cheaper one to start. After ragging about the saw at several woodworking meetings, Patrick Speilman invited me up to his shop and let me use some of the different saws he had there and told me what to look for in a good saw. He always said "the proper blade for the task at hand will make a world of difference in your work" Needless to say, he was correct!!! If you look on the internet and go to ( bens scroll saw.com ) you will find a blade for everything you can think of cutting, and a few you haven't thought of. They also tell you what blade to use for each material, why, and what speeds to run your saw at. Good people to deal with and good prices. Seamus 7227 may have a better recomendation for metal cutting blade, but I have always found the Pegas Swiss metal cutting blades to work just great. Anyone that can cut the stars out of a quarter must have the inside track. Jim S


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## jttheclockman (Jul 19, 2013)

PaulDoug said:


> I have the Dewalt and although I don't practice enough to get good at it I still enjoy scrolling. I'd like to get the time to experiment with different blades so I can learn what works best for what.
> 
> I always thought I wanted a Hawk scroll saw but when I bought a saw I didn't want to spend $1100+ for one. Now I see lots of Hawks on Craigslist for $400 or less! Less than I paid for my Dewalt. Makes me wonder if they are as good as they are cracked up to be. There were 10 of them on the Portland, Ore. Craigslist today. The most expensive was $700, the largest model, in like new condition and many extras to go with it. Most the rest were the 20 in models for $400 or less. Anyway, keep at it. I find it very relaxing and would like to learn more about it.


 

I have 2 Hawks. a 220vs and a 226vs, I have a Hegner 18vs. I have a Dewalt 788vs.

I use the Hawk 220 the most so I can tell you that the Hawk is all that is advertised and more and worth the money. The reason you see so many saws on craigs list is basically people like you and others that jump into scrolling and decide they do not have the talent to use them and blame the saws. What in fact is they do not have the patients to learn to scroll and relax. Same as people who buy lathes to turn pens and get bored. 

Scrolling is an artform. It is something you need to work at to get proficient and take your game to the next level. Just as in pen turning. Learning to choose the right blade and speed and tightness of blade are all traits of being a good scroller. Many many scrolling books on the market. So much can be done with scrollsaws.

I use my scrollsaws for my main business. Pen turning is a knockoff to that business. I sell more scroll work than pens by far. Just as an example of what I need my 226 for is to make larger objects such as mirrors of size such as these. Hawks is a very reliable saw.


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## PaulDoug (Jul 19, 2013)

"The reason you see so many saws on craigs list is basically people like you and others that jump into scrolling and decide they do not have the talent to use them and blame the saws. What in fact is they do not have the patients to learn to scroll and relax. Same as people who buy lathes to turn pens and get bored." 

Ouch!  I don't remember saying any of this!


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## plantman (Jul 19, 2013)

jttheclockman said:


> PaulDoug said:
> 
> 
> > I have the Dewalt and although I don't practice enough to get good at it I still enjoy scrolling. I'd like to get the time to experiment with different blades so I can learn what works best for what.
> ...


 
John; I think you got neededwill mixed up with pauldoug. Pauldoug likes his scrollsaw, needdwill is the one that gave up on his. Very nice work on the clocks and mirror.  Jim  S


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## jttheclockman (Jul 19, 2013)

PaulDoug said:


> "The reason you see so many saws on craigs list is basically people like you and others that jump into scrolling and decide they do not have the talent to use them and blame the saws. What in fact is they do not have the patients to learn to scroll and relax. Same as people who buy lathes to turn pens and get bored."
> 
> Ouch! I don't remember saying any of this!


 

Paul, Sorry I should have not said you because I do know you do scroll and was more meant to OP. I used your quote because of the reference to the Hawk quality. RBI has a very good reputation for making a quality saw. People loose interest right away because it does take some practice but it is fairly easy to pick up. What turns people away also is the quality of machine. When you buy those $100 saws you can not expect it to perform as $1000 saw. Just not there. Vibration and frustration from changing blades can deter anyone. Sorry about mixing quotes. Happy scrolling.


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## PaulDoug (Jul 19, 2013)

JTTHECLOCKMAN.  Not a problem. I was just jibbing you.  I'm glad to read that the Hawk is quality.  I wish one had been for sell when I was looking.  Maybe I will pick one up one of these days and sell my DeWalt.  I don't have room for 2 in my little shop.  Sure has been a run on good buys on them in my neck of the woods lately.


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## jttheclockman (Jul 19, 2013)

PaulDoug said:


> JTTHECLOCKMAN. Not a problem. I was just jibbing you. I'm glad to read that the Hawk is quality. I wish one had been for sell when I was looking. Maybe I will pick one up one of these days and sell my DeWalt. I don't have room for 2 in my little shop. Sure has been a run on good buys on them in my neck of the woods lately.


 
Cool. :biggrin:Hey I would not get rid of the Dewalt. That saw is a solid well built saw. I like the up front tension lever. I know when I bought mine I had to do some mods on it to get it to my liking but it cuts anything thrown at it. As mentioned though this hobby is not one you can rush through just for the fact that the saws cut slow. But I have made quite alot of money from scrolling. When craft shows were all the rave I could not keep up with the demand. It sort of a dying artform but I always say things go in cycles and I believe this too will be rekindled to a frenzy again. They are always coming out with new and cool patterns and styles. 

Anyway take care and Happy scrolling and once again sorry about that. 


PS Thanks Plantman for the kind words and pointing out my mistake. I really should reread some of my posts after i post them


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## plantman (Jul 20, 2013)

jttheclockman said:


> PaulDoug said:
> 
> 
> > JTTHECLOCKMAN. Not a problem. I was just jibbing you. I'm glad to read that the Hawk is quality. I wish one had been for sell when I was looking. Maybe I will pick one up one of these days and sell my DeWalt. I don't have room for 2 in my little shop. Sure has been a run on good buys on them in my neck of the woods lately.
> ...


 
Remember the old saying " think twice, post once "   Jim  S


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## jttheclockman (Jul 21, 2013)

plantman said:


> jttheclockman said:
> 
> 
> > PaulDoug said:
> ...


 

The problem with that saying is in my mind it sounded right. It was when it turned into writing that things went wrong. Won't be the first and heavens knows it won't be the last. :biggrin:


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## PaulDoug (Jul 21, 2013)

John, I really like the look of the clocks you posted above.  Do you get patterns for that sort of scrolling or make it up yourself?  If you get patterns will you recommend places to get them and also other supplies like your blades, etc.


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## jttheclockman (Jul 21, 2013)

PaulDoug said:


> John, I really like the look of the clocks you posted above. Do you get patterns for that sort of scrolling or make it up yourself? If you get patterns will you recommend places to get them and also other supplies like your blades, etc.


 

Paul

The answer to your question is yes yes and yes. I am sorry but have to run and won't be home till some time tomorrow. I will try to answer a few of those when I get back. Later.


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## jttheclockman (Jul 22, 2013)

Paul 

To answer some of your questions. I do buy alot of patterns or at least I did over the years and have quite afew. I also create my own works at times too. I use to create some patterns for a certain scrollsawing catalog that gets tremendous abuse here so I won't even bring it up. I worked for them when it was under the original owner and things were all great. I also combine patterns. 

As far as scrollsaw blades, to me there are no finer blades on the market than Flying Dutchman blades. Mike's Workshop selling Flying Dutchman brand fret and scrollsaw blades

Give Mike a call or shoot him a email and he will send you some samples. He has discriptions and uses of his blades on his site along with other valuable scrollsaw info.

I get many of my patterns from Wildwood Designs Home Page I also get patterns from many other sources. Here is a ton of free patterns Scroll Saw Patterns

I am a member of various scrollsawing sites. There are 2 very good scrolling magazines on the market. Scrollsaw Woodworking and Crafts ( also has a web site) and Creative Woodworks and Crafts. Each of these magazines have many new patterns every issue and they range in difficulty. 

I suggest just google scrollsawing and scrollsawing patterns and you will get a ton of hits. Many many fine pattern makers out there. 


As far as finishing my works, it varies but mostly will use Danish oil and hand polish. Gives a nice warm look and feel to the wood. I will also use water based lacquers on items too. 

Any further questions I will be happy to answer.


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## PaulDoug (Jul 22, 2013)

Thanks John.  I emailed Mike.


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## jttheclockman (Jul 22, 2013)

PaulDoug said:


> Thanks John. I emailed Mike.


 

You won't be sorry. Mike is one of the nicest guys in the world and has a strory or two to tell. His delivery speeds are up there too. He stands behind his product. We go back many many years. My scrolling days are abit less these days with the use of the lathe but nonetheless that is the root of my business days. Good luck.


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