# Using/finishing wood for razor handles



## Carl Fisher (Aug 28, 2013)

Until now I've avoided using wood for razor handles as the continuous exposure to hot water is not always the best environment for many woods.

I have a commercial customer who wants me to use the whisky and wine barrel staves that I currently make pens and stoppers with to make razor sets.  So it's typically going to be quarter sawn white oak wood and we do not use any CA finishes for this customer.

How would you finish and protect the wood in this environment.  Or would you leave it natural and let it do what it will do?

Thanks.


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## Donnie Kennedy (Aug 28, 2013)

You can't use CA, you might want to look into a  marine spar varnish and build it up like lacquer. I couldn't imagine no finish at all working out well.


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## thewishman (Aug 28, 2013)

Stabilizing the wood would help.


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## ve3bax (Aug 28, 2013)

just thinking out loud here, but what about something like a salad bowl finish...?  salad bowls after all are subjected to a good deal of moisture... bees wax would probably require a pretty frequent maintenance but something like tung oil might fit the bill nicely... 

--Dave


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## Carl Fisher (Aug 28, 2013)

I didn't think about stabilizing.  Wonder how much QSWO would actually absorb.


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## Constant Laubscher (Aug 28, 2013)

Wood Handles And Razors | Elite Razor

This person finishes the wood and have great success. Give Bob a call I am sure he would share his methods with you.


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## Carl Fisher (Aug 28, 2013)

Thanks Constant.  I'll have to get in touch with him.


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## edstreet (Aug 28, 2013)

Carl,

I have a radical challenge for you to consider on this subject.







This is a ship that sank in the 1700's in the bahama's.  As we can see it is in water, been subjected to a ton of abuse and is now home to perhaps billions of creatures.


Products like Tung oil, Teak oil, Linseed oil etc has been used through out history to provide a water proof coating for various things.

another case in point.




This has been through hell and back, war.  Yet she still survives to this day looking quite beautiful.  Other coatings to look at like urethane should almost certainly be on the table.

Products like polymerized linseed oil would be a very excellent candidate for this product 




They are more wipe it on, let it soak in then wipe the excess off.  Being polymerized they dry super fast.

Stabilized wood would also be excellent, just sand and buff, no finish needed.


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## Carl Fisher (Aug 28, 2013)

I was thinking of a teak oil of some sorts.  I am not familiar with polymerized linseed oil.  How does that differ from the standard boiled variety?

My concern of the stabilizing option is that since the wood has a healthy dose of alcohol absorbed into it (smells wonderful when cutting) that some products may not take.  He's bringing me by a bunch of wood today and I'll have to test out a half dozen options to see what works and what doesn't.


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## Chasper (Aug 28, 2013)

White oak would be among the woods with the least ability to absorb a stabilizing medium.  The pores in white oak are filled with tannin, a resin like material that gives whiskey its color and much of its flavor.  I would try the types of oil finishes that are used for gun stocks.  Some gun stock makers immerse the carved stocks in tung oil, walnut oil or used motor oil for days.


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## edstreet (Aug 28, 2013)

Ah, I to had that same concern but I realized that NEW stabilized wood will reek of some nasty things but AGED it does not.  This is why you have seen me complain a few times in the past about hastily pushed orders where stabilizing was involved.  I would say something like 1 month after it's processed it should be near 100% leech free and give it a week or 2 and there should be no smells from it either.

A good block of stabilized wood, property and high professional quality does not change colors when wet, smell like wood or warp when wet.  I have a good number of backyard processed blocks that does change colors, warp and smell like wood which means they are not that good quality.

As for finish on stabilized wood they need none. There is a silky texture to them that is very attractive.

The only oak that I have that is professionally stabilized is oak burl.  I kinda doubt that is what you are looking for here  but I would be more than happy to send you a block if you want.


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## Carl Fisher (Aug 28, 2013)

It has to be the wood that he provides in this instance.

I think I'm going to test a few options.  I don't have high hopes for stabilization just because of the nature of this wood specifically, but I'm going to try it anyway.

I'm also looking pretty hard at the CPES resins.  I have no problem letting it soak up and then sit for a few days.  I'd probably have to do the same treatment to the brush handles and stands just to keep a uniform look to the whole set.

Also going to try some various oils like real teak oil, walnut oil, etc...  Probably pour enough to submerse the finished turning for a day or more and let it really wick into the wood.  My only concern with this method is the heat build up of the drying process if it really sucks up that much.

The trick will be how to simulate long term exposure of use.  I'll probably apply then finish and then track the weight dry and after being submersed in water for various amounts of time.  If it picks up too much weight, it's obviously not sealed very well.


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## Brooks803 (Aug 28, 2013)

Throw them in the dishwasher for a couple cycles :devil:


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## kovalcik (Aug 28, 2013)

In my experience, no oil finish will last with daily handling and exposure to soap and water without having to be renewed frequently.  Granted, I have not used every oil finish out there but for the ones I have they are not durable given the conditions that a razor is subjected to.  

I think your best bet is a durable film finish. If not CA then, as mentioned, Spar varnish is a good choice or maybe an epoxy finish.


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## robutacion (Aug 28, 2013)

Carl Fisher said:


> It has to be the wood that he provides in this instance.
> 
> I think I'm going to test a few options.  I don't have high hopes for stabilization just because of the nature of this wood specifically, but I'm going to try it anyway.
> 
> ...



In my view, properly stabilised wood would be your best option...! 
I have never stabilised white-Oak even though I have some wood from 2 barrels I dismantled, one from American oak the other of French oak, they are also well soaked (1/3) from alcohol (wine to Port) and If I was in your situation, and the client would be OK with losing the whisky smell from the wood, I would cut my blanks oversize and boil them in water.  To note that the blanks should only be inserted in the water after it is boiling...!

They would require to stay in the boiling water until the whisky stain be gone, the boiling will remove the alcohol in the wood and will do wonders for the stabilisation process.  The wood after being boiled will dry naturally very quickly (a few days) but, you can accelerated the process buy putting the blanks in an oven at 80 or 90° until they are bone dry.

At this stage, I would wait for the blanks to cool down and them putting them in the vacuum chamber with the Cactus Juice.  Hot wood would activate the juice to a degree so, feeling the wood temp in your hand, I like to start stabilising when I hardly can feel any heat in the blank, and before it soaks any moisture in the air, in the vacuum chamber they go...!

If you are willing to do some test and have enough wood to play with, I would suggest you try this and let me/us know of the results...!

Good luck,

Cheers
George


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## Harley2001 (Aug 28, 2013)

You must seal the end and when you screw the razor down in put some clear caulk on the theads that will help keep water out .


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## Pjohnson (Aug 29, 2013)

Somewhat related to the original post: FWIW -- I have had issues with the finish on commercially available razor kits (tarnish). My original intent was to sell, as I see an open market in my area. I always make a "user" before I sell and with the kits I purchased I was thoroughly disappointed.


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## frank123 (Aug 30, 2013)

Not a razor but the same enviroment, I made a shaving brush handle out of Tamboti (I think it is also called African Sandalwood) and it has held up to water exposure with no finish other than just fine sanding to polish it and has had no problems.

Maybe the wood is more important than the finish for this.


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## frank123 (Aug 30, 2013)

Pjohnson said:


> Somewhat related to the original post: FWIW -- I have had issues with the finish on commercially available razor kits (tarnish). My original intent was to sell, as I see an open market in my area. I always make a "user" before I sell and with the kits I purchased I was thoroughly disappointed.




Maybe a clear epoxy or clear powder coat to prevent the tarnish?


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## jaywood1207 (Aug 31, 2013)

Out of curiosity why not CA for this customer?


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## edstreet (Aug 31, 2013)

jaywood1207 said:


> Out of curiosity why not CA for this customer?



Maybe because CA is a horrible finish?


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## Carl Fisher (Aug 31, 2013)

Several reasons.  CA for one does not hold up to the wood expanding and contracting and in this use expansion and contraction is a given.  It won't last.

I sent several off to test out stabilization, but after some long discussions with a finish expert, I don't expect the wood to take on much if any stabilizing resin.  Right now the most promising option is tru-oil.  The reasoning as mentioned here as well, if white oak is good enough for ship building and can hold liquids for years without leaking that it will hold up just fine in this application.


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## kovalcik (Aug 31, 2013)

edstreet said:


> Maybe because CA is a horrible finish?




Ummm...  Please expound.  I have been using CA on pens, bottle stoppers, and razors for years with no issues.  Your statement seems a little extreme.


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## edstreet (Aug 31, 2013)

As I have previously stated  polymerized linseed oil should be high up on the list.  You can get good stabilizing results with this wood IF professionally done.

There are other products besides tru-oil (birchwood casey label FYI) that is  polymerized linseed oil.  Even standard tung oil works beautiful *ESP* if you apply it properly on the lathe they will dry in no time flat.  I would also recommend epoxy on the tubes as well.  Other non-CA type glues would work as well, acra, gorilla glue, good high end epoxy.

There is another option you could go with.   Lets call this a hybrid.  You could add something like BLO into the wood then use a somewhat fast drying CLEAR epoxy coating.  Now the problem with this route is it is not going to dry fast and could possibly be very painful to make it work but it could work very good for you.


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## edstreet (Aug 31, 2013)

kovalcik said:


> edstreet said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe because CA is a horrible finish?
> ...



Not that extreme when you see the results of abuse testing, durability and how CA finishes holds up to real world situations.

i.e.

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f14/*old*-pen-2006-when-good-pens-go-bad-very-bad-104892/


This is just one of many that I have seen over the years.  Yes some has been mine and many still are from other turners.

You should see what acids does to pens over time.

I have taken new pens, put them in my hallway display cabinet.  Never used them.  Came back 6-12 months later and the seemingly good CA finish has lines in it, cracks and the like.

P.S.
Dont get me wrong. CA finishes have their place but it is not a method that should be used for everything.  It does have it's limits just like every thing else does.  Many/Some situations mandates that it not be used.


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## Pjohnson (Aug 31, 2013)

frank123 said:


> Pjohnson said:
> 
> 
> > Somewhat related to the original post: FWIW -- I have had issues with the finish on commercially available razor kits (tarnish). My original intent was to sell, as I see an open market in my area. I always make a "user" before I sell and with the kits I purchased I was thoroughly disappointed.
> ...



It was the copper component of the kit that tarnished. I would have thought I would not have  to put a finish on the kit components that I purchased.


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## Boss302 (Aug 31, 2013)

I've been making a selling razors and other shaving products long before the kits were available and I've found nothing that holds up better (and mean years and years) in the tough environment of shaving better than a properly applied CA finish.  Stabilized wood is nice (and I use it myself) but it doesn't fill grain on open grain woods and it doesn't fill cracks on burl wood.  These areas become collection points for soap scum if they haven't been filled or covered with a finish like CA.  Tung Oil and other types of penetrating finishes are okay but they do required periodic maintenance by the user in the form of reapplying the finish every so often.  Most people simply don't want to deal with that.


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## Carl Fisher (Aug 31, 2013)

Ok, although I do appreciate much of the input, let me be clear that CA is not open to discussion.  This thread is not supposed to be a CA vs the world argument.  Just accept the fact that CA is not an option for my customer.

Right now we are down to 3 possible solutions, all of which are being tested.  Stabilizing, Tru-Oil and just flat out natural.  I'll let you know once I have some samples tested and the results.


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## Boss302 (Aug 31, 2013)

Carl Fisher said:


> Several reasons.  CA for one does not hold up to the wood expanding and contracting and in this use expansion and contraction is a given.  It won't last.
> 
> I sent several off to test out stabilization, but after some long discussions with a finish expert, I don't expect the wood to take on much if any stabilizing resin.  Right now the most promising option is tru-oil.  The reasoning as mentioned here as well, if white oak is good enough for ship building and can hold liquids for years without leaking that it will hold up just fine in this application.




After reading the above post, I thought that CA was still in the running but you (not the buyer) has discounted it because of perceived expansion/contraction issues and was merely pointing out that isn't an issue with CA on shaving products.  Good luck with your experiment.


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## kovalcik (Aug 31, 2013)

There is one other option you may want to consider.  Turn the handle close to finished dimensions before stabilizing.  Then the stabilizing material does not have to penetrate the whole blank.


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## frank123 (Aug 31, 2013)

kovalcik said:


> There is one other option you may want to consider.  Turn the handle close to finished dimensions before stabilizing.  Then the stabilizing material does not have to penetrate the whole blank.




 Vacuum stabilizing a drilled blank could be done by hooking the vacuum hose up to the drilled hole on one end with the other plugged -or not drilled all the way through- and submersing the blank in the stabilizing fluid and applying the vacuum till it is sucked through from the outside to the insides (evident by the fluid coming out through the tube and it isn't a bad idea to have a collection chamber in the line to keep it out of the pump).

I've done this for knife handles but not tried it on a pen blank since I haven't done it in a long time.  You don't need real high vacuum, just enough to suck it into the wood (I used a little brake bleeder hand pump at the time).


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