# If I had known this earlier . .



## leehljp

I am on a fact finding mission. Can you help?

What do you wish you had known earlier in pen turning?

or in different words:

Knowing what you know now - IF you could go back and start over in pen turning - what would you skip, change or do differently?

answers for instance:
- I wish I had known about the difference in an MT 1 and an MT 2 lathe.
- I wish I had known the advantages of VS
- I wish I had known this was going to cost so much!
- I wish I had started with a DC system or learned to use a mask from the beginning.

What can you contribute to this post that could possible help someone else in the future?

Thanks!


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## aggromere

I had no tools what so ever when I started turning pens. nada.  I went out and bought a band saw, drill press and lathe.  The bandsaw and drill press are ryobi from Home Depot.  I still use the bandsaw but it can't cut straight.  The drill press broke and I do all my drilling on my lathe now.

If I know what I know now I would have;

1.  Skipped the drillpress and bought the stuff to drill on the lathe.
2.  Got a good table saw instead of the bandsaw.  With what I paid for the drillpress and the bandsaw I could have gotten a pretty nice table saw.

None of that applies to you guys that are already wood nuts and have tools.  One thing I would warn the new people about is the cost associated with gearing up to produce pens if you start from scratch.  I have spent at least $5,000 on tools and such, blanks and kits.  I had no drill bits now I have at least 30.  

I have even more but I will leave it at that for now.

Good luck on collecting info.


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## edman2

Lee,
My first thought was your first example. Bought an MT1 mini lathe and wish I had known the difference.  And #3...if I had known what it was going to cost I probably would have never started!  Some things are better learned later!:biggrin:

Wish I really had understood how much difference SHARP tools make.


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## 1080Wayne

Don`t think that I would change very much . One of the things that I did from the beginning was to save my mistakes . With time , practice and knowledge gained from this forum , most of those have been reclaimed into satisfactory pens . I don`t want the pile to ever get to zero , because I want to continually push the envelope of what I can create . That , and the remote chance of someday making a profit , keeps me turning round .

                         Wayne


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## dogcatcher

I guess I started back wards.  I had all of my tools and had been woodworking for almost 30 plus years before I even heard of people making pens.  All I had to do was buy some kits and a mandrel.  Costs still add up when adding in machine wear and tear and other little expenses that are incurred especially as a hobby.


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## GoodTurns

use the lathe.  extra parts don't make everything better.  drilling on lathe and turning between centers make everything more accurate (for me anyway!!!).


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## Josh Gertz

Hmmm well since this weekend I had my first "lesson" in turning, the information I have gathered so far is this:

MT#2 all the way, you are way too limited with MT#1 and most people soon realize that they may want to try things that will require them to buy a new lathe.

From seeing the difference between VS and not I dont really think there is a big difference. Let me explain a bit, I dont mind having to move the belt and while the dial is a huge convenience and saves time its a saving to get started. What I never saw anywhere on the forum either was that even on a VS system you have to change the belt for different speed ranges as well so its almost a wash. If I have the money Ill go VS but I may want to use that extra $100 on a grinder which I would argue is more important so you always have sharp tools.

Im going to buy cheap blanks in bulk from eBay until I get the feel for using the tools. Actually turning a pen is much different from watching videos, there is a lot more finesse involved that will come with a lot of practice. Knowing angles for cutting, learning different cuts, learning how to use a skew properly and knowing when to sharpen and how to sharpen. I think I may burn through about 50 or so blanks just figuring it out before I use any good materials for a pen.

Thinking outside the box. Seeing how someone actually works is invaluable, Jason had a lot of tricks that I didnt think of and havent seen anyone else do. Things like turning his own custom MT#2 clamps and jigs to use on specific things, using simple tools to do things that people are buying $50 custom tools to do, little things like where to get cheap glue, etc. 

Thats what I have so far, Im sure there will be more specifically after I go buy my lathe...sooner than later I hope.


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## Randy_

Not too many things turned out to be a surprise for me as I spent several months on this forum and reading books before I vere turned a blank.

One thing I missed was the need for a 60° live center; but I figured that out pretty quick. The thing that took a while to figure out is that all of the relatively small chisels and gouges sold for pen crafting never get out of their box any more now that I have purchased full sized tools.

Also wish I had invested in a digital caliper the same day I purchased my lathe.  I had an old vernier caliper; but it is hard to read, quickly, so I didn't get it out very often.  A digital caliper or a dial caliper will greatly improve the quality of your work!!


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## artistwood

i would have bought a Jet instead of a turncrafter pro, i would have superglued the walnut burl blank when i got closer to the tube, i would have CA'd the ends of the blank with thin ca before i started turning it, i would have come to this site first, i would have gotten professional help using a skew and saved a few practice blanks, i wouldn't have tried to turn alloy silver with a wood lathe (i finally got this one almost finished), i would have rearranged my shop AFTER i finish my canoe so i can find the lathe, drill press, pen press, my blanks and kits, etc.....
i would have thanked all the people here in advance for sharing their knowledge so willingly and for their friendship. it's never to late......THANKS FRIENDS!!!!!   ...bear


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## TBone

I'll echo two thoughts already stated, 60 degree centers and turning between centers with johnnycnc's bushings.  That and how much difference a nice tool rest made.


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## Gordon

I wish I had discovered this forum and it's resources for learning the craft - before I just started throwing money into self training.  Got expensive and lonely !


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## Stephen

Sharp,sharp,very sharp tools, no mandrels, only skew, Johnny CNC Bushes, Ca/BLO, TN kits only, buying from IAP members. Read and reread the forums to update knowledge which is never ending.......


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## hilltopper46

...buy a few extra tubes with your first order of any style of pen. If you really mess up turning a blank, but want to get that first kit assembled, spare tubes really come in handy!  Also, if those barrels that you thought were going to look wonderful turn out sort of so-so, it can be handy to have a couple spare tubes lying around.

... a pack of nitrile gloves from Harbor Freight is a great investment.


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## skywizzard

Lee,
Not much I can add from your observations.  By benefit of this forum I did learn the difference in the MT1 and MT2, and the importance of the VS lathe.  I thought I was aware of the cost, LOL, it just seems to grow and grow.  The most important thing I wish I had know about was the need for good DC and mask, especially dealing with CA.  I, like you, have developed a SERIOUS reaction to the fumes. It is now under control thinks in part to your posting regarding the problem.  Thank you.


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## jkeithrussell

I wish I had known how unreasonably difficult it would be to develop a consistent, reliable way to get a durable finish on a wooden pen.


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## keithlong

Being a newbie, I will chime in and say that I read alot of helpful info on here and got the lathe with a MT#2. I bought the starter kit from Penn State, claimed that it had everything you needed to start making pens. They failed to mention about the 60 degree live center and dead center, which I now have. And I never thought about ordering extra tubes. But I now have them. Thanks Guys for all your helpful info that you so generously shar with us. Keith


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## mikemac

I wish i had of purchased a bigger lathe at the beginning.  I started with a Delta Midi, but quickly realized that bigger is better for a lot of things.  Just having the weight and horsepower of a bigger lathe to turn a larger bowl blank is very useful.


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## RedJeepClub

*The finish on a pen is one of my biggest challenges.*



jkeithrussell said:


> I wish I had known how unreasonably difficult it would be to develop a consistent, reliable way to get a durable finish on a wooden pen.



I agree, I still have not found a finish that I really like on the pens.  I tried CA-BLO once with bad results, I have since tried all sorts of other friction polishes, and have a great looking finish, but I am not sure of the long lasting durability.  I am using a combo of Mylands friction polish and carnuba wax.

Once other thing I had real problems with, it wobble with the mandrel.  So after turning the pens it is out of a round just a tiny bit.  this causes the pen to be out of whack after final assembly, when the pen is turned on the transmission.

I have also ended up making all sorts of jigs for drilling, pen assembly, and sharpening. 

Ian


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## ed4copies

ASSEMBLY!@!!!!

I ruined more pens in the first months, because I rushed through assembly.  The pen was FINALLY turned and beautiful, NOW get the darned thing DONE!!! I knew nothing about glue in tubes (there WAS no IAP a the time), so I forced the fittings in the holes and cracked MANY pens.  Also didn't think about reinforcing the material with CA BEFORE I turned it.  

Probably MY most expensive lessons.


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## fernhills

I have been woodworking for 40 years, so i had most every tool to turn with. Wish i had the HF punch set before i started into pens.


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## wood-of-1kind

Wish that I knew the ease and accuracy of using carbide bits before I invested in pricey skews/gouges that I no longer need or use.


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## Mac

would have bought sharpening system first, and practiced on cheap tools instead of
trying expensive tools from the get go, as there is a learning curve to sharpen tools.
As for pricing ,I took my experience with sales and working in public and priced my pens higher than anybody around here , some $5 more, some $20 more and have done well.So I would'nt change that .


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## pssherman

I would have to say knowing how to tell if a tool was really sharp or just pretending to be sharp.


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## gketell

1) Mandrels make for oval pens.  Use 60-degree centers and good bushings.
2) JohnnyCNC
3) All our vendors on this site!!


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## mdburn_em

Knowing that a mandrel, bushings and a good CA finish are counter-productive.  Attempting to use them all together will cause poor fit or sanding through the finish.

Practice, practice practice my CA finish on test turnings before attempting to do one on a pen.  Explain that if I can do it on the test turning but have problems on my pen, I'm sanding through the finish.

I should know how thick of a finish I am putting on.  (How else can I tell if I'm sanding through it?)

tube insertion tool is a waste of money.

mini-tools are worthless.

You can achieve a fabulous finish without MM.

Most click mechanisms suck.

Don't waste money on an analog caliper, get the digital first time.

Get in line immediately for a PH vise

I would have liked someone to have explained the woes of barrel trimming to me and especially warned me about those crappy, over-priced all-in-one kits.


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## TX_Planes

Great stuff.  I would second what others have said.  I wish I had found IAP sooner....no scratch that....the cash did a immediate outflow after discovering IAP.  

Great site and I am sure saved me from many mistakes and wasted $ on gimmicks.

I wish that I had ordered more kits and blanks with my first several orders.  I spent lots of money on shipping charges due to small orders.  Order up folks you'll be glad you did.


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## GouletPens

I would have found this site sooner.

I would have stopped wasting my time with all my experimental finishes and gone straight to CA.

I would never have bothered with slims, classic americans, carbaras, el grandes, robustos, or any of the other hundreds of kits I bought in my initial excitment, then ended up reselling later. 

I can't really complain about anything else though.....I love making pens and if it weren't for my mistakes, I wouldn't be able to make pens like I do!!


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## chriselle

Finding this user group earlier would have been of benefit.  I had already been turning pens for a number of years and info during the first year or two was pretty rudimentary.  Other than a few stinkers along the way (friction polish:bulgy-eyes the evolution has gone well.


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## Sabaharr

I wish I had known that WOODCRAFT wasn't the only place to get supplies. I could have started for almost half of what I spent.


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## GouletPens

Sabaharr said:


> I wish I had known that WOODCRAFT wasn't the only place to get supplies. I could have started for almost half of what I spent.


 oh yeah.....add this one to mine! Though, the guys at WC were very helpful, and since I didn't know this forum existed at the time, they were actually a big help to me. BUT.....I probably spent thousands more on inferior products than I would have knowing what I know now. Go figure. :neutral:


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## Joe L

Hi Hank...

The list is endless...and some of the things have already been said.  If I had my "I wish I'd...."   It would be very simple.

That you write a reference text  "Before you buy a tool for turning... READ This!"  It would have a bunch of sub-chapters.... "How to avoid...." with recommended solutions.
1.  Tools needed.... sources: IAP Library and IAP Forums
2.  Supplies needed... sources: IAP Library, IAP classifieds, IAP Forums
3.  Other supplies available... commerical catalogs, Google search

You get the idea.  Finding IAP was the best thing for me.  Great tips, lots of posts and pen photos to inspire and motivate.

-joe L


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## wolftat

If I had known that a larger bandsaw was going to help so much I would have bought a bigger one in the begining.


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## John Eberly

*If I knew then what I know now -*

I would've started off buying the $39 25-piece drill bit set from Rockler or somebody else and saved a bundle on one-off drill bits that cost $8.99 each.

I would've followed through on my original impulse to serial number and photograph all of the pens I made.


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## ed4copies

john eberly said:


> i would've started off buying the $39 25-piece drill bit set from rockler or somebody else and saved a bundle on one-off drill bits that cost $8.99 each.
> .




amen!!


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## leehljp

Thanks to everyone that contributed to this. It is helpful and I am including a link to your input for those that are new to this forum. I think this can be very beneficial to those that are new to pen turning and especially to those that are just starting out.


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## keithkarl2007

i'd have asked around about the best lathe to get. I've bought johnny cnc,s bushing and stuff for turning between centres and i'm still turning out of round. It has me so depressed i feel like selling all the penturning stuff i've bought in the past year, i've tried everything and almost broke down during the week, its just really frustrating

(sorry for venting)


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## Fred

Keith ... check your e-mail!


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## keithkarl2007

thanks fred i'll post it tomorrow.


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## kirkfranks

If penturning is your first try at lathe work... Go get involved with some other turners and see how to actually use a skew (other tools too.)


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## JohnU

I wish I would have found this place sooner.  My pen making was the first real turning I had done since High School Shop, so my know how was simply what not to do in terms of safety, rather than how to.  I made lots of sawdust and ruined many of real nice blanks on slimlines.  Not to mention I sold about 100 pens for $5 each in the beginning, but it kept me going and it got the word out that I make them.  Now that Ive started casting, I wish I would have started it earlier, throwing away lots of worthless wood.  Everything I know and learn is because of this place so .... I WISH I WOULD HAVE FOUND ALL OF YOU SOONER!   Thank you all.


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## Don Gaiser

Why is this so?
Every video I have seen, and every tutorial I have read, all use these tools. Can you please explain the nature of the other option? :biggrin:



mdburn_em said:


> Knowing that a mandrel, bushings and a good CA finish are counter-productive.  Attempting to use them all together will cause poor fit or sanding through the finish.


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## leehljp

Don Gaiser said:


> Why is this so?
> Every video I have seen, and every tutorial I have read, all use these tools. Can you please explain the nature of the other option? :biggrin:



Don, 

Lots of people achieve good results with mandrels. However, if a mandrel is not perfect, or if a person does not have the experience for the right "feel" in tightening the tail stock against the mandrel, or overly aggressive cuts or not perfect cuts, the pressure of the chisel can distort the mandrel. Lots of ways for things to go wrong. That said, many many people have no problem with it and in such case there is no need to change for change's sake.

Mandrel-less is basically new in comparison to mandrel turning and people don't like to change unless there are problems. There are lots of posts on this forum concerning your question.


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## Daniel

Lesse, A better quality lathe is worth the money. expect to spend it. The tools sharpening systems are worth the expense also so plan to spend that money. and finally. there are low cost things that claim to be dust collectors. don't waste your money. If it is not $1000 you are not even looking at the bad stuff yet. Just get over it quick and accept that it is part of the cost of doing things safely.
You don't "Need" a band saw, or even a drill press. pens can be pressed together in many many ways. making pens on a cheap (poor quality) Lathe can very well cause you to quit the hobby. Put your money where it will get the most use, your lathe.
Finally if you are looking for a quick easy and low cost hobby, keep on looking cause this ain't it.


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## TomW

Daniel said:


> there are low cost things that claim to be dust collectors. don't waste your money. If it is not $1000 you are not even looking at the bad stuff yet. Just get over it quick and accept that it is part of the cost of doing things safely.


 
Sorry...Strongly disagree.... I think this is overstated by about 100%. Perhaps for a production system with employees at the tools, but for a hobby, a good 1 micron dust collector, an open door, a big fan, etc. There are lots of alternatives that dont cost $1000.

Tom


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## GouletPens

You may not 'need' a drill press, but it's faster than drilling on the lathe. Also, if you're only planning to do pens, then by the time you've spent the money on the chuck and pin jaws and jacobs chuck to be able to drill on the lathe, you have basically spent what you would on a drill press anyway. Drilling on the lathe is better though if you're tight on space and have more time than money.


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## Chris Bar

Old CA will cause headaches (obtaining a good finish).  Clerk insisted that although it was their last bottle, it was fresh because it sells so fast.   Lesson...do not ignore the inner voice and the years of experience telling you otherwise, on new glue or otherwise.


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## Ligget

I never bought from them but after reading many complaints I suggest new turners to keep away from Steerbar.


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## RAdams

i must admit, i didnt read this entire thread, but from all of the posts i did read, there are several people that are dogging the kits. if you dont use these kits, then what kits do you use? kitless only? and if so, then where do you get whatever parts you do use?


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## leehljp

RAdams said:


> i must admit, i didnt read this entire thread, but from all of the posts i did read, there are several people that are dogging the kits. if you dont use these kits, then what kits do you use? kitless only? and if so, then where do you get whatever parts you do use?



Ron,

I know that when I moved from slimlines to Barons - I loved them . . . and then within a few months saw how quickly the gold plating rubbed off of the cheaper gold. Then I noticed that on others. I enjoyed the price though, :biggrin: but in the end, it wasn't worth it to me. I had to evaluate the plating in my choice of pen kits. Many people here do that and refuse to work with certain platings because of this.

Many of us tend to start with less expensive kits and move up - even to closed-ends, semi-kitless, or kitless. Closed ends and Kitless allows far more expression and freedom but demands more skill and insight. Hard to go back once that starts. I am not there yet but hope to do some in the next couple of years. 

Some people make their own parts, some use fitting, nibs, and transmissions from quality kits. To each his own. There is a broad spectrum here and many are very content with the lesser priced kits - and make good money from the sale of them.


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## jusaf

I would have loved to know that woodcraft doesn't have the best prices and that ordering online results in better prices.  I would have liked to have found the IAP from the beginning.


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## cnirenberg

GouletPens said:


> You may not 'need' a drill press, but it's faster than drilling on the lathe. Also, if you're only planning to do pens, then by the time you've spent the money on the chuck and pin jaws and jacobs chuck to be able to drill on the lathe, you have basically spent what you would on a drill press anyway. Drilling on the lathe is better though if you're tight on space and have more time than money.



I agree with you there brother.  I wish I didn't buy that piece of crap, but where would I put all the magnetic holder stuff anyway?


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## alamocdc

The biggest thing for me was starting with the wrong lathe. I tried to save money by going cheap... read Harbor Freight. If you "know" that you have no asperations for turning anything larger than 10" in diameter, go with a Jet Mini or Delta Midi... period.

If you think you might want to do larger turnings, go ahead and buy a larger lathe. I could have saved myself about $600 if I'd gone straight to my Powermatic. I don't turn that many pens on it (I have two Delta midis), but I still use it for drilling, etc., and there is one style of kitless pen that I use it for exclusively.


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## Stephen

Just to add - Thanks to John (jttheclockman) who referred me to IAP from wood on line forum in 2007. Not sure if I had thanked John for his lead. Well never too late. Thanks John.   Finding IAP made a world of difference to pen turning. Thanks Everyone.


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## Rmartin

Never ever buy any pen kit with a cheap plating.


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## bfgladden

I wish I could go back and stop myself from buying crystal coat and put my money into a big bottle of CA.  Oh, and drilling on the lathe.


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## Daniel

I wish I had known more about lathes in general before buying one. my decision was pretty much price only on my first one ($100) function on my second ($300 plus accessories of about $500 so far). I was also surprised at the cost of equipment to keep tools sharp. I also wish I had know the importance of top quality (relatively expensive) kits and materials before I spent so much money on P.S.I. slimlines and plain old wood blanks.


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## dasimm

I wish I would have known long ago that failure is just another path to success! The tutorials and reviews here are excellent and are a great source of information. 

Ultimately though you get better by doing.

I feel like the mistakes I made along the way helped me become a better turner, a smarter consumer, a more knowledgeable vendor, and to think about what I'm doing, and the money I'm spending.

FWIW - I also agree that this is one of the absolute best sites for help and information for any virtual community - bar none.


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## GouletPens

I'm actually very thankful that I was ingorant to how much money pen turning cost when I first started, b/c I think if I would have told my wife "yeah, it's going to be about $10,000, I'll always be boring you with detailed pen talk, and you'll never park your car in the garage ever again", she never would have let me start!!!!:biggrin:


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## DAVIDDECHRISTOPHER

I hope to start some time in October Having major sergery next week.
Thank You
Hank Lee


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## Marc

Reading through this thread, I felt like I could have written many of the posts.  I am a rookie turner, about 18 months into it and while I mostly do pens, I have had some success with pepper mills and even saved a couple of bowls before they became piles of sawdus.

Yes, I have purchased most of my supplies through woodcraft, and realize that I am paying a premium.  I will say our local woodcraft store has been a great place to get tips and to learn.  I also like to see my actual pen blank or bowl blank before I buy it.  So many of the woods that are the name you want or just not distinctive.  I most like burl woods, but also enjoy some laminating.

One thing I still don't do very well is to photograph each pen and log in the type of wood, the type of pen, date and who I sold or gave it to.

Enjoy this forum so far - this is my first post.  Think I'll go over to the introduction thread and introduce myself.

Marc from Reno NV


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## Marc Phillips

*No regrets really....*

I look on this whole pen turning hobby as a constant learning process anyway, so yea, I have spent money and then spent money again and again and again...

.... but

I have learned the whole way... I am on my 4th lathe... whodathunkit! .... but along the way I learned a ton and really, those lathes were the best I could afford at the time. 

I started with a mandrel and carnauba wax finish... now I turn between centers and use a CA finish... I started with $1.65 slimlines... and don't regret any of those pens... I learned! ... and I would not have turned a decent pen anyhoo no matter how great a kit I had back then... so blowing a $1.65 was a good deal. 

It was a progression... when I came across a problem, or grew more demanding of the quality of my finished product, I started reading here and other places to try and make myself smarter... I read that the skew was the tool to use... and the majority of opinions of those I respected online was that you just had to bite the bullet and learn this tool, so I did. Kind of a long learning curve, but the result is that I am comfortable with the tool now.

I had a problem with out-of-round pens, so asked here and the overwhelming answer was to switch to turning between centers... so I did. 

Sharpening... man, lemme tell ya... every time I am silly enough to think "now THAT is sharp" I learn a better way online! ... I just recently started using slip stones on my gouges and a diamond stone for my skew... Mo Bettah for me!

If I had known how much better this lathe was than the previous lathes, I could not have done anything about it anyway... sure glad I have it now though! ... but I sure don't regret those other lathes or tools... they were the stepping stones along the way to learning.

I still have a long way to go... but I sure am enjoying the trip.

... and thanks to all the incredible talent here... I feel like a sponge and you all are the bucket of water pouring on me! ... I try to absorb all and try nearly everything I read about... 

Great thread Hank...


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## omb76

As far as processes go, probably wouldn't change too much.  Learning by the mistakes I made is part of the fun.  I felt like a genius the day I figured out to paint the inside of the drilled acrylic pen blank instead of just the tube so it wouldn't show through.    I also thought about suggesting getting good quality turning tools, but if you don't already know the proper way to sharpen them, then go with cheapies and learn on those first like I did  Probably the one thing I would suggest is to not start out with a slimline pen for your first.  Try a sierra first, simple one tube and straight cuts.  Also, buy extra pen tubes!


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## excalibur

Daniel said:


> I wish I had known more about lathes in general before buying one. my decision was pretty much price only on my first one ($100) function on my second ($300 plus accessories of about $500 so far). I was also surprised at the cost of equipment to keep tools sharp. I also wish I had know the importance of top quality (relatively expensive) kits and materials before I spent so much money on P.S.I. slimlines and plain old wood blanks.


I agree and disagree here - as a new turner the cheaper sets where GREAT to inexpensively learn the basics on - like my "better" lathe more - I really disagree with the plain old wood blanks comment - most of my pens are wood (I do use other materials) and for the most part I like the wood better - I feel that anything man makes can not match the natural beauty of wood - while some wood is boring it is the skill of the turner to get the most out of your material - also for great quality supplies try Wood-N-Whimsies - the cost is good and the customer service Tim and Tracy deliver is bar none :good:
As for what I personally "wish I knew" - I spent a year "flying solo" before I stumbled on IAP (SW MO Chapter) and I have felt welcome and learned so much from the forum and membership - wish I had found this earlier.
I wish I had realized the "total" cost to turn that beautiful wood I bought into sellable pens.
I wish all of you had a wife that is not only willing to support the "habit" but can not wait to get into the shop with you (yeah guys she fishes with me too :biggrin: ).


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## Len Shreck

Well all I just sat here and read every post on this Thread and now I am kinda confused. I am very new to the whole turning thing and have never even TRIED to turn a pen, I don't even know the terminology yet. I am looking to get a new Lathe and read on a diff thread that the HF 34706 works well for doing pens is this true? I have also been looking at a Grizzly G0624 what would work better for Pen Turning? My next question is if you had to pick ONE style pen for a beginner to start with what would it be and what type of material is most "forgiving" for a new/beginner to start out with. anyone can email me at lshreck@hotmail.com just please put Pen Turning in the subject line with info. Thanks Len Shreck


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## dankc908

I guess my "wish I had ... " list centers around my complete shop - not just my pen turning.  I wish I had invested in better quality tools the first time I bought.  I had to replace my cheap Menard's tablesaw with a nice Ridgid Contractor's table saw.  I just replaced my cheap Menard's Tool Shop with a JET 12" drill press.  I replaced my cheap Sears scroll saw with a nice DeWalt scroll saw.  I am currently satisfied with my Turncrafter Pro VS but I do look at the JETs with a little yearning.  I have made myself a promise -- No more cheap power tools!


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## meshel

I did this before I ever purchased or touched a lathe, and I would do it again... and recommend it to everyone.

Take a beginners course on woodturning from a good teacher!!!

This will save you a lot of money, time, and frustration starting out. Also there is nothing quite like actually turning / being near a turner to learn this craft/profession - you can never achieve this level of knowledge and skill from reading (even this great site) or watching a video. Hands on is the way to go.

And no I don't offer courses - but I will gladly teach you something for free if you come over (you need to buy a plane ticket to Israel in order to do that, but my door is always open!)


----------



## Lenny

I wish I had known....
1. That CA glue is better left for finishing pens and not gluing the tubes in.
2. That brass tubes will show through some acrylics if you don't paint the tubes/blanks.
I'm glad I didn't know...
1. How much this hobby was going to cost.  =0)
I'm glad I did know...
1. Enough to come to IAP for the best info on pen turning!


----------



## BigShed

I already had most of the major tools before I became interested in pen turning, so didn't buy those with pen turning in mind.

I bought my lathe (MC900 with Reeves pulley variable speed) at a clearing sale for $100, thinking it might come in handy one day. I had a wood lathe about 35 years ago, but life and a family sort of got in the way of doing much with it, so it got sold.

Now that I have become interested (read obsessed) in pen turning, the one decision I regret is the bandsaw. It is a very nice 14" generic bandsaw with an aftermarket fence, but when you look at some of the logs and burls I am now cutting, a 17", or better still a 19", bandsaw is on my wishlist.

Having bought a metal lathe with EVS (electronic variable speed) the Reeves pulley system and the overall lack of quality of the generic MC900 is trying my patience so I have eyeing off a new EVSequipped wood lathe (same as the Laguna 18 x 47).


----------



## Jgrden

Lenny said:


> I wish I had known....
> 1. That CA glue is better left for finishing pens and not gluing the tubes in.
> 2. That brass tubes will show through some acrylics if you don't paint the tubes/blanks.
> I'm glad I didn't know...
> 1. How much this hobby was going to cost.  =0)
> I'm glad I did know...
> 1. Enough to come to IAP for the best info on pen turning!


Lenny: maybe CA isn't the best for gluing tubes in BUT isn't it a little time consuming and wasteful to mix epoxy just to glue tubes in??? What else can we use, Gorilla glue?  Takes all night to dry.


----------



## 1080Wayne

John : Gorilla glue will be ready to turn in 2 hours if you dunk the blank in water before gluing up . I don`t use anything else .
                       Wayne


----------



## Lenny

Jgrden said:


> Lenny: maybe CA isn't the best for gluing tubes in BUT isn't it a little time consuming and wasteful to mix epoxy just to glue tubes in??? What else can we use, Gorilla glue? Takes all night to dry.


 
I usually use Sumo glue for wood blanks. It's like the gorilla glue but has a shorter wait time. If I want to turn the blanks right away I use the syringe like tubes of 5 minute epoxy. I buy them at Job Lots for $1.50 and only squirt out enough to do 1 or 2 blanks at a time. I can get several blanks glued up from one tube and they will be set up and ready for trimming to size in no time. (I usually give them an hour just to be sure)
I like to plug the tubes with playdough and work a little glue into the blank as well with a q-tip before spreading it on the tube and inserting it. Usually a lot comes off that can be scraped off the end and used on the next one.


----------



## Jgrden

Lenny said:


> I usually use Sumo glue for wood blanks. It's like the gorilla glue but has a shorter wait time. If I want to turn the blanks right away I use the syringe like tubes of 5 minute epoxy. I buy them at Job Lots for $1.50 and only squirt out enough to do 1 or 2 blanks at a time. I can get several blanks glued up from one tube and they will be set up and ready for trimming to size in no time. (I usually give them an hour just to be sure)
> I like to plug the tubes with playdough and work a little glue into the blank as well with a q-tip before spreading it on the tube and inserting it. Usually a lot comes off that can be scraped off the end and used on the next one.


I see. Sumo glue. Hmmmmm


----------



## discdogs

Just turned by first pen a couple days ago. I would say, that all the above is/are good suggestions. I was fortunate enough to read some of this and tap my uncle's experience. I'm sure my answer will change over the next few pens, but after the first one here's my top 3:
1) buy extra tubes
2) take your time, read posts, view videos, get the Penturning book (but you might want to read the first chapters before you turn to the one that says, "how to make the slimline")
3) buy more than one kit of the same kind to start...you might mess that up too. DAMHIK (I like that new acronym!) Buy a couple cheap kits to start with. You can give those out after you have some stock built up.

Future and always a good recommendation...Don't skimp on tools and power tools. I always research my purchases, and unfortunately don't let price be a huge factor, unless we're talking adding zeros.


----------



## lawry76

Discovering micro mesh made a huge change in my pen making.  I could turn okay but my finishing left a lot to be desired.   I wish I would have started with comfort style pens.  I've always thought slim lines were a bad place to begin.  And I echo what has been said above about tools.  I started with wood chisels.


----------



## jttheclockman

Looking back now I probably wish I had developed an interest in pen turning sooner. I have been woodworking for over 35 years so I have collected the majority of tools and was just getting into turning about 4 years ago. But I did stumble on this site and made sure I read and asked a ton of questions about turning pens and finishing and probably started to become annoying because I was not showing any. I like to investagate my adventures before taking them on. But I think it paid off because I picked up on the turning part and even the CA finishing part rather easily. 

So as I said I wish I started this a little sooner.


----------



## Rfturner

*What I could have done better*

Fortunately I learned how to use the lathe from Mr. Crandall, Great high school woodshop teacher. so I avoided many but not all mistakes. what I learned to do is investigate which Lathe and tools were the best that I could afford. I went with the PSI turncrafter pro VS, Ryobi belt and spindle sander combo, Delta 14 inch Band saw, use my dad's old '72 peerless drill press, I easily have $2000 invested in tools alone.

What I would have done differently though is I wish I...
1.  PHOTOGRAPHED EVERY PEN/kept record of what it was made from
2.found this forum sooner
3. knew how much my work was worth, practically gave my pens away in the begining


----------



## Rcd567

I concure with most everything written here.  I was a member here for quite some time before I bought a lathe.  I'm pretty satisfied with the Jet 12x20 I got (except they never paid me the $50 rebate! )

Bigger tools are way better with my old hands.  I still get cramping, but have learned to live with it.

Buy a nice quality floor mat to stand on.  You'll thank me later. 

I've also become addicted to burl turning and all the frustration associated with it.

My wife is my best customer.


----------



## mranum

Lots of great advice here in this thread, but for those reading who haven't done much wood working or bought any tools don't think you need to spend tons of cash.  Take your time and aquire old tools and if necessary do some refurbishing, this does two things, you get some old very well made iron and you get to know the tool intimately.  I've been playing with wood for over 15 years and with very little excess money to spend I built a pretty decent outfitted shop in that time.  I think most of my stationary tools  were born around 1950 and most of my hand tools were born around the early 1900's and work just as good and sometimes better than the mid-ranged priced tools you can buy today.  

Estate sales and local auctions, and the local swap shop type program on your AM radio are your friend. Quality at a fraction of the cost.  But then again I'm cheap too.:biggrin:


----------



## snyiper

I have to agree with the above post, you do not need the latest and greatest. What you do need is to learn to make what you have available work. Use a digital caliper it makes things easy. My first jig for pen turning is the minisled for squaring blanks on disc sander that is a lifesaver. Old tools are very reliable and often cheaper you can sell and upgrade later if need be. I for one do slims and think they teach valuable lessons on the lathe I use a adjustable mandrel as well. Are they the best, I dunno but they work for me so find some thing you want to turn and get good at it!!!
If I can do pens on a old 1936 Atlas/Dunlop lathe anything you pick up can be made to work!!!


----------



## PenMan1

*11 things I wish I had known from the beginning*

1. That filling the brass tubes full of plumber's putty keeps the glue out of the tubes better than anything else. And by pushing the putty out with a shotgun bore brush leaves the tubes sparkling clean and the putty reusable for the next time.

2. That spraying a little "pam" or wiping a little vasoline on a marble floor tile makes a wonderful gluing station that cleans up quiickly with a paper towel and keeps the "sloppyiest" glued blanks from sticking to a $700 workbench.

3. That a $99 Ryobi Sanding Station (belt sander with mitered disc sander) pays for itself after about ten uses by NOT destroying $10-$20 blanks the way that a pen mill does. This also allows you to do the laser cut blanks.

4. That waiting until I could afford that little "white" lathe with the variable speeds was indeed my best choice. The lathe is one place that you want to buy the best that your budget allows.

5. To buy the very best quality platings available and leave the really cheap stuff to the "e-bay guys". Nothing screams "novice" like a $2 pen kit on a $15 blank.

6. To forget about "turning to bushings" and buy 3 or 4 nice calipers. Accurate digital calipers are about $15 each. With kit pens, I set a caliper for each place that a "kit piece" fits. This GREATLY improves the fit and fiinish of kit pens.

7. To upgrade all nibs, rollerball refills, transmissions, etc to Schmidt. Yes, they really do make that much differnce!

8. To buy JohnnyCNC "eliminator" finish bushings. To this day, I can't accurately apply CA/BLO finish without these little jewels. IMHO, no other finish (except perhaps plexiglass) shows off the pen's workmanship like CA.

9. To not rely on kit bushings but to buy or make quality steel or Corian bushings and turn between centers. Out of round pens is ofter the result of overuse of "stock" bushings and bent mandrels.

10. Quit buying the "name" on the lathe tools and start buying carbide tipped tools instead. They cut materials that HSS can't and they stay sharper much longer. I have tried most lathe tools and I do a much better job with a cheap carbide tipped skew than I do with a "big name brand" HSS chisel.

11. Try harder to make my pens look more DIFFERENT rather that try to make them look the same. My best selling work happens when I have a couple of drinks before entering the shop. Then I sorta forget about all the "rules" of penmaking and concentrate on exposing the beauty that is trapped within each piece of material.


----------



## Parson

Hindsight is always 20/20, but my biggest lesson learned is not to buy 22k kits because the gold wears off in a week or two of daily use. My first pens were made with cheap kits (read _not_ titanium) and I was ashamed to see the person using the pen weeks later.


----------



## workinforwood

I wish I had known about turning between centers so I didn't waste so much money on mandrels and bushings.
I wish I had known the turncrafter lathe was junk from the start.

I wish I had known these two things, because all the money I spent there was wasted. The quality of product produced with them was junk and now it's all gone and had to be replaced with better stuff.


----------



## arjudy

I wished that I would not have tried so many different kits in the beginning and just stayed with a few styles.
I wished that I would have bought the best tools that I could afford and learned to sharpen then properly from the start.


----------



## bitshird

I wish I had bought a wood lathe sooner,
I wish I had bought a better table saw, 
I wish I had kept my fingers out of the cheap one I did buy,
I wish I hadn't started turning slimlines with 24Kt plating, 
I wish I'd discovered wood turning long ago.
I am so glad I found the IAP and remember how kind Randy was the first night I logged on and asked about bushing sizes and what size I needed to make my mandrels.


----------



## MDEdwards

That you can't duplicate the angles of Alan Lacer's skew with the Tormek jigs system.


----------



## louie68

TomW said:


> Sorry...Strongly disagree.... I think this is overstated by about 100%. Perhaps for a production system with employees at the tools, but for a hobby, a good 1 micron dust collector, an open door, a big fan, etc. There are lots of alternatives that dont cost $1000.
> 
> Tom


 
Sorry.. Strongly disagree also...
 I purchase a Oasis Dust collector from toolmart.com 1hp .motor on casters so it goes anywhere i choose $129.00 + ship 25.00 from CA to ILLINOIS
Louie56


----------



## markv

as a newbie I have to say that this thread needs to be stickied!

I know that this is an old one but it is GREAT info for a beginner




and aren't you proud of me for using the search feature here! :biggrin:


----------



## rkimery

leehljp said:


> I am on a fact finding mission. Can you help?
> 
> What do you wish you had known earlier in pen turning?
> 
> or in different words:
> 
> Knowing what you know now - IF you could go back and start over in pen turning - what would you skip, change or do differently?
> 
> answers for instance:
> - I wish I had known about the difference in an MT 1 and an MT 2 lathe.
> - I wish I had known the advantages of VS
> - I wish I had known this was going to cost so much!
> - I wish I had started with a DC system or learned to use a mask from the beginning.
> 
> What can you contribute to this post that could possible help someone else in the future?
> 
> Thanks!


 
Wish I had a "Turning" lesson first, before I dove in.  Maybe it wouldn't have taken so long, nor as many broken tools to turn a pen(?).     :biggrin:


----------



## omb76

How to sharpen my turning tools!!  Wait a minute I still don't know the proper way!    :biggrin:  I saving my pennies for a Wolverine system.


----------



## LeeR

For me, I regret buying a "belt changer". Some may say that changing them is no problem, and that is true, to an extent. But when you want to add a finish, slow the lathe at the start, and then speed it up, you just don't do it. You make compromises (at least I do). I bought the Rikon 70-100, primarily because it was on sale for $75 off, and while I think it is a decent entry lathe, I wish I would have spent the money for a more upscale model. I could add the VS kit, but you still have pulleys, just half the number. Not really appealing to me, since belt changes are still required, just a little less often. I'll invest in a Nova or Oneway in the future, more than likely.

I can empathize with pen turners who were not into woodworking previously. LOTs more than a lathe and the pen making tools to buy! I've had a shop for 35 years, so up until I got my lathe, I've acquired almsot anything you'd need -- table saw, radial arm saw, compound miter saw, bandsaw, jointer, planer, drill press, scroll saw, router table and numerous routers, plus hundreds of accessories like bits, clamps, cordless tools, commercial and homemade jigs, etc. (And a very understanding wife ...)


----------



## PenPal

Morning here Hank,

From the get go I surmised that you were intending to establish the definitive manual for all new Pen Makers. So many questions are asked and answered on this forum that would be covered in archives. I refer to the King James publication that has been for so long a standard
text for so many originally written, interpreted from languages, published in various sizes, it took a long time to do this by a skilled group of (Experts) in the field.(controversy still exists)

There is the story of the child coming home from school saying to the mother where do I come from who received the whole 12 yards about the birds and the bees when asked by the Mum at the conclusion why do you ask when the child explained Jimmy said he was from Texas so where am I from.

IMHO a statement from the Forum with a few pertinent guidelines is more valuable than a forty page document and could feature in the guide to new members as they register. As it is now a lot of forum activity is about anything but Pen Making I sense a shift here and there a trend as well to this forum being a social club.

Suggestion turn into rules or so called binding rules of conduct look into the total changes in Construction with safety in OH&S. 

In your society with others what is the success rate doctrinally mixing with folks, how long to introduce where do you start and finish. Personally at 76 yrs I learn a real lot every day
could never cover that in a document of common sense. Basically Pen Turners are curious
people who may or may not pursue their hobby with the proposed intensity. I believe in line apon line with friendly help from face to face interaction, finally a picture is worth a thousand words.

Since my friend you have been largely missing from the hectic contributions over the years this indicates to me we are all no different. Being able to study, learn, qualify, then go out and get practical experience, devote time needed to progress. From my calculations a retirement is in the offing for you I have been retired now for the best part of 15 yrs now having learned to move fast to keep up with the new demands that come with the title.
Fare well ie have success in your endeavor and when you do have it accessible to everyone as a key when we log in  available to everyone since you are polling us for answers.

Kind regards Peter.


----------



## Tom Foster

I learned that if you are not willing to spend a little money on quality tools and kits, you will spend a lot of time producing inferior results.  Your customers or gift recipients are sensitive to the quality of what you produce.


----------



## rkimery

Tom Foster said:


> I learned that if you are not willing to spend a little money on quality tools and kits, you will spend a lot of time producing inferior results. Your customers or gift recipients are sensitive to the quality of what you produce.


 
Can I get a BIG amen here?  You are so right Tom! :biggrin:


----------



## Russknan

One of my biggest regrets is that, not knowing any better, I bought several blank "assortments" when I was starting. Although I have an AWFUL lot yet to learn, I was surprised how quickly I got better at making pens and now don't ever anticipate wasting my time on those bland pieces of kindling. They are just taking up valuable space in the workshop. Also, some of them are of a diameter smaller than 3/4". I don't think that leaves enough flexibility, and condemns you to making only slimlines. There are people on IAP who supply wonderful blanks for a fair price that are worthy of the effort you put into turning them into pens. I also really like someone else's suggestion above (sorry, I'm too lazy to look back up a few pages to give proper credit) that you start out with single-blank kits like Sierra or Gatsby and expand from there. Finally, the info and help from others on IAP is responsible for the greatest part of any improvement I've made. Russ


----------



## Rudderman

*Turning between centers*

Since I'm a new guy I can ask stupid questions. Why is a 60 degree live center better and what does "turning between centers" mean, no mandrel?


----------



## gketell

Rudderman said:


> Since I'm a new guy I can ask stupid questions. Why is a 60 degree live center better and what does "turning between centers" mean, no mandrel?



the 60-degree center matches the angle of the dimple on the end of the mandrel so there is no wobbling of the mandrel.  The standard center has a sharper point so the mandrel can wobble around giving you uneven turning and therefore out of round pens.

Yes, between centers means using high quality bushings and skipping the mandrel.  The mandrel can be bent so even though the ends are held steady the center wobbles: again, out of round pens.  With high-quality (tight) bushings, there is nothing to wobble and your pens come out straighter.  You just have to "visualize" what the two haves will look like together since you will be turning each half separately.


----------



## Jim Burr

Wet Amboyna. I made a Euro set for a crazy rich friend of mine. Looked great!!! He put it in his safe for 5-6 years. I saw it last year. The wood shrunk at least 3/32" and was so embarrassing!! I grabbed it, said I'd be back tomorrow. Made him a "dry" pen. Much better result and his wife asked for a similar one. Good wood is a great start!


----------



## Kretzky

1. Wish I'd got a true VS lathe rather than a belt change one.
2. Wish I'd known it was going to cost so much
3. wish I'd known how many were already doing this "hobby"
4. wish I had more room for things like a DC etc
David


----------



## redneckmedic

Wish I would have read this thread 3 wks ago when I found this forum instead of spending $300 on parts and replacement parts and crap kits and such. 

Learn to sharpen a tool as proficient as you can dull one.

Take your time with every step...no matter how many times you have one it, or how well you can do it.

Keep a tighty work space.

Stay organized with you parts/tools/kits/blanks.

Remember to make stuff for yourself. As much as I always love to see acceptance on others face when they receive my gifts of hand craft... keep the nice ones for yourself every once in a while, you earned it after all, its made by you!

Do be intimidated to try something hard, you might surprise yourself!

Brag on you work, folks will love it!


----------



## Glenn McCullough

I wish I had known this was going to lead to a lifelong love of pens...would have started turning many years earlier.
wish I had known what a waste of money a  GRIZZLY lathe could be.
wish I were retired and could do this full time.


----------



## Loon-A-See

Hi Glenn,

Your writing instruments are gorgeous!

I'm a pen turning neophyte, chomping at the bit to get started.

I've been investigating all the tools, etc. for about 18 months.  I'm disabled by Multiple Sclerosis, so I have the advantage that the State of WA, Dept. of Voc. Rehab. will help me get started.  God Bless America and The American Taxpayer!

Anyway, I've been looking at mini, then midi lathes from almost everyone.  I finally settled on Grizzly over Jet or Delta b/c all my buddies swear by Grizzly.  So, I've selected the 12" x 20" Benchtop Lathe, H0658, figuring that I would gradually "grow" into it.

Why don't you like Grizzly?  What would you recommend?  From my research, it seems that one's lathe is the most important power tool.

It is overwhelming with so many choices, and opinions.  Would appreciate your input.

Thanks!
Maria


----------



## PenPal

Birds of a feather flock together.

Love many trust few but always paddle your own canoe.

Every cent used to follow my passion in Penturning has given me such a great reward ie experience, pleasure.

Spend wisely on equipment. Enjoy the journey. Be fair to others pay fairly for quality anything,

Every day someone says so and so has a special price on this and that.

Everyone is entitled to their living expect wages for effort.

Deal honestly with everyone.

Amazing how wonderful life is living within your means.

Chalking up 79 yrs in two weeks been there done that however same as my family ie wife, kids, their kids, their kids around 65 total penturning is but one of my passions and learning oportunities I welcome every day.

Enjoy the journey.

Kind regards Peter.


----------



## dartman

If i had known the slippery slope was such a fun ride,I would have started sooner


----------



## tim self

Yep, 60 degree live centers, turning btw centers and drilling on the lathe.  Since I started turning like this everything has turned out much better.  Also putting my barrel trimmer on the lathe makes them perfect as well.


----------



## Chasper

I was going to pass on this thread, but over the weekend I was at a show that was a little slower that I had hoped with some spare time I couldn't stop thinking about what I wish I had done differently.  I didn't make a list, I just have one item to mention:

I wish I had never made a wood pen.  I wish I had started with resin and totally stayed with resin.  I've made a thousand or so wood pens and I think all of them will eventually become "defective."  I've made 10 times that many resin and alternative material pens any nearly all of them will last indefinitely.  Not that I can't put on a first class CA finish, they look great when they come off the buffer, but eventually that wears off.  There was one wood pen in my display yesterday when I decided that I am going to go totally un-wood.  I gave it away to a kid who loved everything he saw but had no money to spend.  From this point forward I'm totally wood-free unless it is so heavily stabilized that no finish is needed.


----------



## yaroslaw

1) I wish I would found Exoticblanks.com and beartoothwoods.com BEFORE PSI. It would make life at beginning so much simpler!

2) I wish I would never buy a mandrel and endmill and started straight from TBC and squaring on the lathe (my own way with a skew). That would save a lot of frustration and some initial costs

3) I wish I would NOT buy PSI chuck(Barracuda 2)/live center - they are awfully eccentric! Robert Sorby or Oneway are more expensive, but I've could saved for them!


4) I wish I knew where to get good woodturning chisels. 
*
5) I wish I would start penturning earlier!!! *And start saving money for that thing earlier, few less trips, few less dinners - and voila! New lathe! It was tough at times, as I started penturning after I quit my job.


----------



## Martin G

I wish I had photographed every single thing that ever came out of the shop.  This is a lesson I still haven't learned.   I photograph more things that I used to but some still slip by me.


----------



## Cmiles1985

I wish I had read all of the posts to this thread, researched TBC, bought an MT2 lathe and done everything (drill, turn, square and finish) on said lathe, and I wish I'd have stuck with one pen kit style while learning. As of now, I've been turning for about 4 months and have just realized that my thoughts of "I like that pen" have cost me so much more in bushings and drill bits when I still haven't perfected turning and finishing.


----------



## wildbill23c

I've got Cmiles1985's issue.  I started with the slimline pens as a beginner, then went to woodcraft, then other pen websites and of course that pen looks awesome, that one would be nice for a gift, this one would be nice with a matching pencil for my mom who has arthritis and has a hard time using the slim style pens and pencils.  Then grandpa liked that pen, I like the bolt action.  Then I ended up with 4 boxes worth of pen kits, bushings, drill bits, etc.  Almost every Sunday I go to Woodcraft for more stuff because its something I enjoy doing and its relaxing for me.  Except it gets expensive, and not having much luck selling any and I really can't keep making pens just to have around the house LOL.


----------



## Mike Powell

I dont really think there is too much I would change.  

I bought a MT#1 Lather, and I havent really ran into any limitations yet, YET being the key word.  

I have a 
HF 129.00 Lathe
HF 19.00 Tools

I bought a Band Saw, and bartered for a disk/belt sander and a Drill Press.  the drill press was VERY small and I thought it would be ok, but I cant drill anything bigger than a 2 barrel bank.  

So probably the only thing thing I would change is I wouldnt settle on just enough.  I would get what I know would work.


----------



## SDB777

I should have just bought the Laguna Revo 24-36....

You can always turn small stuff on a big lathe, but it's hard to turn a 300lb chunk of anything on a Jet 1220VS.




Scott (I'm craving a ICEE) B


----------



## wildbill23c

Mike Powell said:


> I dont really think there is too much I would change.
> 
> I bought a MT#1 Lather, and I havent really ran into any limitations yet, YET being the key word.
> 
> I have a
> HF 129.00 Lathe
> HF 19.00 Tools
> 
> I bought a Band Saw, and bartered for a disk/belt sander and a Drill Press.  the drill press was VERY small and I thought it would be ok, but I cant drill anything bigger than a 2 barrel bank.
> 
> So probably the only thing thing I would change is I wouldnt settle on just enough.  I would get what I know would work.



You must have the same lathe I do from HF.  I've had mine since the end of November and I really like it so far.  Turned several dozen pens with it.  I have the HF lathe tool set as well, but I did move up and purchase a carbide min-rougher as the HSS tools just don't hold an edge very long.  The mini-rougher was about $60 and well worth it for me it seems like, couple dozen pens so far and haven't turned to a new cutting edge on the 4 sided cutter head yet.  

I've looked at more expensive lathes at Woodcraft, and just laugh at the prices on them.  For those prices I could burn up my $130 HF lathe a half dozen times.  I got the 2 year extended replacement plan so I'm good for a couple years, and if it burns up after that I'll go buy another one.  I figured I'd have to do a lot of setup with it when I got it, but it was perfectly aligned right out of the box surprised me really.


----------



## Quality Pen

Awesome thread! Should be a starter manual...

Havent turned yet but I'm sure i will be back in here one day.


----------



## Sylvanite

If I had known that they were going to stop making spare parts, I wouldn't have bought a Delta lathe.


----------



## WriteON

leehljp said:


> I am on a fact finding mission. Can you help?
> 
> What do you wish you had known earlier in pen turning?
> 
> or in different words:
> 
> answers for instance:
> 
> - I wish I had started with a DC system or learned to use a mask from the beginning.



Great thread. I was fortunate to learn from others before I started to wear & use protective equipment. Safety first. Safety is everything.


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## oneleggimp

I bought the PSI carbide-tipped pen turning gouge to start with and then the Carbide-tipped pen turning skew and finally the parting tool that goes with the set (HSS). In retrospect, I wouldn't do it again.  They were not all that sharp.  I did it to try and save having to buy a grinder to sharpen chisels.  I should have just bought the grinder.  I don't use the carbide-tipped chisels at all anymore. I use HSS tools which I keep sharp and they cut so much better than the carbide-tipped.  Maybe if I do an acrylic blank, the carbide will still be usable but overall I wasted money on them.  Also I bought the Pen  Blank Trimming Set from PSI.  Total waste of $20.00 ($19.95 actually).  I wouldn't buy that again.  In order to save money I bought the smaller (1" capacity) Dedicated Pen Blank Drilling Chuck.  In retrospect, I should have bought the larger one (2 1/2") since I've decided to try turninng shaving brushes, game calls  and bottle stoppers - all of which involve blanks larger than 1". SO Penny Wise and pound foolish.


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## tomtedesco

Once you start you're hooked.  There is no re-hab for the pen turning addiction.


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## BradG

I wish I only bought accessories for my lathe as and when I needed them
I wish I didn't bother with brush plating and went straight onto Tank plating
I wish I measured pen components rather than relying on the width of bushings
I wish I didn't skimp on the cost of my original lathe. I paid for it later in replacement parts
I wish I burned my receipts before SWMBO found them.


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## vakmere

- I wish I had started with a great DC system and the Mandrel Saver. Experience in turning came with practice practice practice and trial and error.


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## csr67

I wish I'd known not to waste $$$ on a drill mounted barrell trimmer, the Rick Harrell sanding jig works soooooooo much better!


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## scoobiehome

What are TN kits?


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## Quality Pen

titanium... often gold titanium as opposed to gold plating (more common) which is often far less durable.


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## Warren White

*I have enjoyed this thread!*

Much of what I would contribute has already been said.  I will add (or state again) the following; not necessarily items which I wish I would have known, but as things I appreciate:

1.  The importance of a mentor for me was immense.  He shared his time, his passion, his techniques, his praise and his corrections.
2.  This forum and the 20,000+ members have been SO VERY IMPORTANT!  My thanks to all of you!  (Especially to Jeff who welcomed me here.)
3.  My wife, who encourages me.
4.  It is important to be organized.  I share my shop with my car and all of my other woodworking tools.  I bought a small Ikea drawer unit where I keep all of my small items, blanks, and lathe accessories).  Everything I use (lathe, dust collection and the drawer unit) are on wheels, and it only takes 5 minutes to set up to turn, then clean up when I am done.
5.  I appreciate lots of little items I use:  a small round brush to clean out my tubes and blanks; a good quality Exacto knife to clean out the ends of the blanks and tubes; plumber's putty to seal off the ends of the tubes; the fixture to drill on my lathe; Rick Herrell's offset sanding jig because I had NO success with the barrel trimmer I bought; the CSUSA Pen Assembly tool so I can assemble my pens on the lathe.
7.  Vendors who have excellent products and great customer service.  CSUSA comes immediately to mind.
6.  My eyesight, which up close is excellent!  It allows me to see well enough to give proper attention to those items where precision is necessary.  Consequently, I don't turn without protecting my eyes.

While this list isn't complete, it reflects some of the things that allow me to find great pleasure in this hobby.  I put numbers 1, 2 and 3 at the top of my list because they continue to be so very important to me.  I hope that something I have listed will be of help to someone on the forum.

Thanks to all!
Warren


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## Sabaharr

This is a small thing but I wish I had started using dental wax in the tube ends when I glue them up. That sure has saved me a lot of digging epoxy out of the tubes so they will fit on bushings. A box of the wax is $7 on ebay and will last for thousands of pens.


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## csr67

Sabaharr said:


> This is a small thing but I wish I had started using dental wax in the tube ends when I glue them up. That sure has saved me a lot of digging epoxy out of the tubes so they will fit on bushings. A box of the wax is $7 on ebay and will last for thousands of pens.



+1 to that!  I was using plumbers putty and it never quite did the job cleanly.  It was also a pain to get it all out of the tube.  I bought a pack of dental base plate wax from Exotics, and it'll last through hundreds of pens.  Two quick pushes of the brass tube into the sheet, and it's sealed up and ready to epoxy.  Afterwards, I take a chopstick and just push the wax cleanly out.

Here's a link, 5 sheets of wax for $2.75 and that will last you for a couple hundred pens at least!

Exotic Blanks :: Shop Supplies :: Assembly, Disassembly & Miscellaneous :: Base Plate Wax - Pack of 5 Sheets


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## Quality Pen

Sabaharr said:


> This is a small thing but I wish I had started using dental wax in the tube ends when I glue them up. That sure has saved me a lot of digging epoxy out of the tubes so they will fit on bushings. A box of the wax is $7 on ebay and will last for thousands of pens.





csr67 said:


> Sabaharr said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is a small thing but I wish I had started using dental wax in the tube ends when I glue them up. That sure has saved me a lot of digging epoxy out of the tubes so they will fit on bushings. A box of the wax is $7 on ebay and will last for thousands of pens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +1 to that!  I was using plumbers putty and it never quite did the job cleanly.  It was also a pain to get it all out of the tube.  I bought a pack of dental base plate wax from Exotics, and it'll last through hundreds of pens.  Two quick pushes of the brass tube into the sheet, and it's sealed up and ready to epoxy.  Afterwards, I take a chopstick and just push the wax cleanly out.
> 
> Here's a link, 5 sheets of wax for $2.75 and that will last you for a couple hundred pens at least!
> 
> Exotic Blanks :: Shop Supplies :: Assembly, Disassembly & Miscellaneous :: Base Plate Wax - Pack of 5 Sheets
Click to expand...

Thank you to you both!

I will give this a try. I also tried the plumbers putty, but I found it didn't really save me time/energy for the results. Could have done it wrong of course! :biggrin:


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## Ray1955

*bummer*

wanted a mini lathe VS to work on making some pens and a few other ideas and received it as a christmas present.  I have been trying to find out the bear bones of what I need to start to turn.....I don't want to stare at this thing too long.
LOL

Ray


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## Ray1955

*bummer part*

The bummer part from above was reading someone say if they know then what they know now they never would have started as it was expensive.


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## jttheclockman

Ray welcome to the site. Do not listen to things like that. If that were the case might as well just stay curled up in a corner somewhere. Everything today is more expensive. You will always and I mean always get as much out of something as you put in. You do not put the effort into the hobby then do not start it. Collect butterflys or something. Any tool and material and pen kits and finishing equipment can be resold. There is always a buyer. Sell a few pens and you will recoup your money back in no time. But again put the effort into it and become a saleperson. It is all about effort. 

Now reviving a 2009 thread will not get many new answers but you can look back at what others have said. Start your own thread and others will be glad to help. Not sure if you are asking a question or not but there are articles in the library about the basic things needed to get you started down this wonderful enjoyable and rewarding hobby. Again effort is the key. You get out of it what you put into it. 

Here is a good thread to start reading

www.penturners.org/forum/f14/list-items-142449/


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## Skie_M

It doesn't have to be all that expensive to get started .... and once you've got the basic skills down, selling what you make can help pay for your new addiction! 


basic set of HSS lathe chisels at Harbor Freight:  15 dollars (8 tools .... make sure you sharpen them before use!)
basic 3-jaw scrolling chuck #1MT (order online from Harbor Freight): 35 dollars (excellent for holding ROUND stock for cutting blanks to length and drilling)
basic drill chuck #1MT 3/8" or 1/2" from PSI:  18 dollars to 25 dollars (lets you drill right down the center of the blank on the lathe holding the blank in the 3-jaw chuck)

You already have the dead center spur for your headstock and a live center for the tailstock, use them to turn your blanks into smooth round cylinders for further working.

Pen mandrel + mandrel saver with bushings and 7mm brad point drill bit from PSI in #1MT: about 25 dollars for the kit, I think.  Comes with 5 7mm bushings for slimlilne and other kit projects.

Set of drill bits in fractional sizes from 1/16" to 1/2" from Harbor Freight: 15 dollars (if you get the coupon right now, it's 10 bucks for the set of 29 bits.)


That's it for getting started ... beyond pen kits and wood/acrylic blanks this is all you really NEED to get started, but it may help a ton to have yourself a sharpening station or means to sharpen your chisels, as they aren't very sharp right out of the box.  

If you live near another lathe worker, one of the best things to do is take your chisels to them and ask if they could show you how to properly sharpen them, and what they use and recommend.


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## James Schober

*TN Kits?*



Stephen said:


> Sharp,sharp,very sharp tools, no mandrels, only skew, Johnny CNC Bushes, Ca/BLO, TN kits only, buying from IAP members. Read and reread the forums to update knowledge which is never ending.......



Sorry, new to forum and catching up on acronyms....

TN Kits?


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## More4dan

Titanium usually a titanium oxide coating in gold or black.  Extremely hard surface and wear resistant. It's what they coat drill bits with to make them last longer. 


Sent from my iPhone using Penturners.org mobile app


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## jttheclockman

James Schober said:


> Stephen said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sharp,sharp,very sharp tools, no mandrels, only skew, Johnny CNC Bushes, Ca/BLO, TN kits only, buying from IAP members. Read and reread the forums to update knowledge which is never ending.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, new to forum and catching up on acronyms....
> 
> TN Kits?
Click to expand...


Heck there are times I feel I am new to the English language


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## Rockytime

Nice thing about this thread, it entertained me for most of the afternoon. That is a nice thing about the entire forum.


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## Scissortail Pens

If I had only known that turning a pen in 15 minutes was a myth. You can, but if you want to be proud of it, it's a myth.

Next up, the myth of sharpening tools, are your tools really sharp?


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## Wayne

Have followed this thread for years. Been away for a while and with a reminder, rediscovered.
This would make an excellent tutorial with some challenge.
Id imagine something like a FAQ pointing to the advisable point of discussion in the tutorial.
Index up front to help.

Anyone up for this challenge?


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## leehljp

Wayne, I am behind (as usual) but I have some free time coming this week. (Monday afternoon & most of Tuesday). I will get the "Getting tarted completed and will put together a FAQ for this pointing to this thread.


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## Wayne

leehljp said:


> Wayne, I am behind (as usual) but I have some free time coming this week. (Monday afternoon & most of Tuesday). I will get the "Getting tarted completed and will put together a FAQ for this pointing to this thread.


Hank,
That's wonderful! The members will love this. This will be a monumental tutorial.


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## mmayo

I wish TBC was the way of life  when I started.  If you are new or thinking about being a newby to pen turning, start with one kit and TBC (turn between centers) bushings at the start.  You will thank me and your pens will be better from the start.


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## byany2525

GouletPens said:


> I would never have bothered with slims, classic americans, carbaras, el grandes, robustos, or any of the other hundreds of kits I bought in my initial excitment, then ended up reselling later.



so why kits do you use and why?


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## Lee58

To be honest I don't think I would have really changed a thing because every machine I bought, tool I used, or kit I tried served as a great learning opportunity! Sure there would always be things we could have done differently but we all had to learn and adapt with the things we were working on or with which served as a great teaching experience and allowed all to progress to were we are today.  Hopefully, we can now use that experience to better our techniques, equipment, selection of items we make and share that experience with others.


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## Kr23513

Josh Gertz said:


> Hmmm well since this weekend I had my first "lesson" in turning, the information I have gathered so far is this:
> 
> MT#2 all the way, you are way too limited with MT#1 and most people soon realize that they may want to try things that will require them to buy a new lathe.
> 
> From seeing the difference between VS and not I dont really think there is a big difference. Let me explain a bit, I dont mind having to move the belt and while the dial is a huge convenience and saves time its a saving to get started. What I never saw anywhere on the forum either was that even on a VS system you have to change the belt for different speed ranges as well so its almost a wash. If I have the money Ill go VS but I may want to use that extra $100 on a grinder which I would argue is more important so you always have sharp tools.
> 
> Im going to buy cheap blanks in bulk from eBay until I get the feel for using the tools. Actually turning a pen is much different from watching videos, there is a lot more finesse involved that will come with a lot of practice. Knowing angles for cutting, learning different cuts, learning how to use a skew properly and knowing when to sharpen and how to sharpen. I think I may burn through about 50 or so blanks just figuring it out before I use any good materials for a pen.
> 
> Thinking outside the box. Seeing how someone actually works is invaluable, Jason had a lot of tricks that I didnt think of and havent seen anyone else do. Things like turning his own custom MT#2 clamps and jigs to use on specific things, using simple tools to do things that people are buying $50 custom tools to do, little things like where to get cheap glue, etc.
> 
> Thats what I have so far, Im sure there will be more specifically after I go buy my lathe...sooner than later I hope.


Very well put!!


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## egnald

I wish I would have started with a sanding jig and bushings instead of a series of barrel trimmers and reamers.
I wish I would have started with a JET 1221VS instead of a Harbor Freight and a Variable Speed Conversion Kit.
I wish I would have started with Cigar and Jr. Gent kits instead of loading up on Slimline kits.
I wish I would have started with a slow speed bench buffer instead of buy a lathe mounted buffing system.
I wish I would have started with RhinoPlastic and Alumilite blanks instead of loading up on Inlace Acrylester.

I wish I would have.....  many, many, more things.

I wish I would have not gotten in a hurry drilling yesterday instead of blowing out a nice Ironwood Burl blank!

Dave


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## howsitwork

1.To buy the biggest quality bandsaw I can fit in with permission ( SWMBO like me occupied)

2. Dust collection is NOT optional.

3. SHARPEN the skew often and hone it. Not convinced yet by carbide although use it a lot in metalworking.

4 Jigs to sharpen consistently are worth their weight in gold.

5 Epoxy allows assembly time and needs to be left to cure.

6 Analyse your mistakes and learn from them. 

7 ALWAYS have a bottle of ca debonder or acetone within easy reach  ( Dont ask , just don’t ok?) 

8 Nitrile gloves when applying finishes are of great value.


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