# Camera recommendation help



## BradG

So here I go again..

The last time I went down the route of buying a DSLR I really struggled with it. one because of my lack of photography knowledge but I purchased an older model which didn't have the features I needed.

The main problem I had was with focus. I was using a remote cable and a tripod. I couldn't tell from the little preview screen on the back if it was perfectly in focus or not, and it was only after transferring the picture onto my PC it looked like I had consumed a few beers. Everything else such as exposure I will be able to figure out by reading up on it, but the focusing issue was the crux of it for me.

I then noticed on higher models, that they can output the picture onto a computer screen in live time, and allow you to take the picture by using the software. As my camera didn't support this (I think it was a Canon 300 or 350D) that was the end of my venture and I went back to a point and click cheap as chips camera.

I need to be taking studio quality pictures of my pens for marketing purposes, and I really don't want to buy the wrong camera again

Any pro's like to suggest what I should be looking at? It would be greatly appreciated.


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## wood-of-1kind

If Sylvanite chimes in, I am certain that you will get a few suggestions or else you can try contacting him directly. He is extremely helpful here on IAP.


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## BradG

Going off price, I've narrowed it down to these three. naturally I would want to avoid the dearest one if I can, but if it would give me a significant advantage id lean more towards it.
of course I'm open to other brand suggestions too.


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## KCW

BradG said:


> So here I go again..
> 
> The last time I went down the route of buying a DSLR I really struggled with it. one because of my lack of photography knowledge but I purchased an older model which didn't have the features I needed.
> 
> The main problem I had was with focus. I was using a remote cable and a tripod. I couldn't tell from the little preview screen on the back if it was perfectly in focus or not, and it was only after transferring the picture onto my PC it looked like I had consumed a few beers. Everything else such as exposure I will be able to figure out by reading up on it, but the focusing issue was the crux of it for me.
> 
> I then noticed on higher models, that they can output the picture onto a computer screen in live time, and allow you to take the picture by using the software. As my camera didn't support this (I think it was a Canon 300 or 350D) that was the end of my venture and I went back to a point and click cheap as chips camera.
> 
> I need to be taking studio quality pictures of my pens for marketing purposes, and I really don't want to buy the wrong camera again
> 
> Any pro's like to suggest what I should be looking at? It would be greatly appreciated.



First off, I would like to make a disclaimer that I am by no means a professional photographer.  Now, with the focus issue, that should be easily solved by setting your focal point through the eyepiece, and not using the display at the back of the camera.  If the issue comes from the auto focus resetting after you trigger the remote, you can usually set the lens to manual focus, and alleviate that problem.  I have taken a handful of photography courses at my local college, and the first thing they teach you is that good photographs come from the photographer and not the equipment, so some studying up on the subject will net you greater gains than an expensive camera ever will.  If someone with more experience chimes in with the opposite advise, you should probably listen to them instead.  Like I said I am no professional.  Good luck.


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## Larryreitz

You really don't need to invest in a super high price camera and since you are using a tripod and remote cable it sounds like you have much of the equipment you need already.  From what you say, my initial thought is that you are trying to get too close to the pen.  All lens have a minimal  focal length and you have to get beyond that or it cannot focus on the subject.  For example, my Canon 100-400mm lens will not focus unless the subject is more than 1.8 meters away, but with my Tokina 12-24mm I can get up to within a foot and it will focus.  I don't claim to be a product photography expert (I do landscape and birds mainly), but you can see a couple of images I have taken of my pens here: Hand Crafted Pen - LARRYREITZ.  These were taken with the 12-24mm lens in a small light tent.  If you click on the little info icon at the bottom right you can see all the exposure info.  

Think about investing in a software package for cropping and adjusting exposure etc.  The images referenced above were cropped in Lightroom but less expensive photo processing packages are available.  With the 12-24 lens the crop had to be about 50-70% of the full frame.  If you are using a longer lens, say 50 mm (said to be a "normal" lense), in order to get beyond the minimum focal length you will have to back off further from the subject, and you are still not likely to fill the frame.  So some cropping will be essential.

I would suggest that before you spend the money on a new camera you might want to rent or perhaps borrow a lens that is compatible with your camera body and try it.  If that does not work there could be an issue with the focus on your camera and you could have to get a new one, but, I'm guessing that is unlikely.

Good luck.  I've looked at your pens and they are certainly worthy of good pictures.

I just read your latest post and any of the camera bodies you are showing should do the job if you decide to go that route.

Larry


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## Joey-Nieves

Brad:
I'm a Broadcast engineer since 1980, I also like photography and video photography, So when the Canon D7 pop up you can not imagine the rocus it formed in the industry.  The D7 https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/.../eos-7d-mark-ii#Z7_MQH8HIC0L88RB0AMD0F1Q42OR1 has many features that you will like, and has great automatic features that anyone can use it, what makes it great is it's ability to record 1080p HD video with cinematic quality.
Most agencies are using it to record commercials and film company's are using it to film action scenes, Fast & Furious chase scenes were done with a D7 using a video lens.
Nikon has a more economical modal, D5500 Nikon D5500 | Touch Screen DSLR Camera with Built-in WiFi.  Very nice camera lots of features for the price.  I have a close friend that owns one and he does wonders with it.

I personally use Pentax, Because I owned a few lenses and for compatibility issues continued with the brand.  There new K1 K-1 | Ricoh Imaging has a 36.4 megapixel resolution 14mp more than the rest and shake stabilization that is superb.

Now You live in the UK, so that should be taken into consideration, extras, options and service should be something you can find with ease.  Also since Canon has become the leader, lenses and accessories are very easy to find at very good prices.  Since my personal preference is hitting my little tow with the table in the foyer, I like the Pentax K1.
Now as the grail knight said; "You must choose. But choose wisely, for as the true Grail will bring you life, a false one will take it from you."

Joey


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## Joey-Nieves

BradG said:


> Going off price, I've narrowed it down to these three. naturally I would want to avoid the dearest one if I can, but if it would give me a significant advantage id lean more towards it.
> of course I'm open to other brand suggestions too.



D80


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## carlmorrell

The problem with using a viewfinder is it needs to be "tuned" to your vision.  There is a little wheel close to the viewfinder called a diopter.  What I do to set the diopter is use the autofocus, then tune the diopter so the image looks sharp through the viewfinder.

When shooting pens, I use live view zoomed in all the way, and focus manually.


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## BradG

Thanks all for taking the time to write your replies, its appreciated. Larry while your pictures are good, far better than I can do, I am aiming for pictures such as we see in magazines. They always look more vibrant and alive. no doubt as you mentioned it will be down to post processing. I came close to this last time around by using the depth of field to create a blurry background which is the look I am after so the backdrops do not detract from the pen itself, but as mentioned my focusing was always 'off'.

This can be seen in the attached picture I took of my wife. background good, Jen on the other hand, slightly blurry!


Joey, il be sure to google the Nikon. as I own no lenses I can swing in either direction


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## BradG

carlmorrell said:


> The problem with using a viewfinder is it needs to be "tuned" to your vision.  There is a little wheel close to the viewfinder called a diopter.  What I do to set the diopter is use the autofocus, then tune the diopter so the image looks sharp through the viewfinder.
> 
> When shooting pens, I use live view zoomed in all the way, and focus manually.



Mind if I ask which camera you use? it sounds like your approach is the way I want to go. I didn't know about the diopter. I didn't rely on the viewfinder due to it wasn't best looked after by the previous owner and looked dirty and dark to look through. it was actually awful to look through thinking back on it for anything closeup.


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## BradG

Here's a pic of a montblanc pen off the internet. that's what I'm aiming for. I'm hoping to take pictures like this without having to photoshop out the background etc

Obviously the right lighting and lightbox would be important, but could this be achieved with one of those fold out tents or would something more professional be recommended?


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## Joey-Nieves

BradG said:


> carlmorrell said:
> 
> 
> 
> The problem with using a viewfinder is it needs to be "tuned" to your vision.  There is a little wheel close to the viewfinder called a diopter.  What I do to set the diopter is use the autofocus, then tune the diopter so the image looks sharp through the viewfinder.
> 
> When shooting pens, I use live view zoomed in all the way, and focus manually.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mind if I ask which camera you use? it sounds like your approach is the way I want to go. I didn't know about the diopter. I didn't rely on the viewfinder due to it wasn't best looked after by the previous owner and looked dirty and dark to look through. it was actually awful to look through thinking back on it for anything closeup.
Click to expand...

 
With most modern cameras, like the ones I mentioned before, the picture can be seen in the rear display.  Some more modest models don't have this feature, like the Nikon D300. Now this feature can be very useful because it's a what you see is what you get option.  Now close focusing is mostly use with the macro features of you DSLR, but are limited by your background.  Auto-focus does does not like white or light gray, it confuses them, work around these problems by choosing wisely your backgrounds, high contrast usually works better in many ways. also a white balance calibration can not hurt. 

Some cameras have video out so you can attach a monitor.  Since I wrote my last reply you have given us more information. So you may want to add the Canon d80 to your list, but my favorite is Nikon D3300 Nikon D3300 | Read Reviews, Tech Specs, Price & More

I have a D300 that my sister gave me for my Birthday, great but no video and no monitor preview, that means view finder only, But as all things with age, everything gets more difficult (difficult and hard are not synonymous). Even with correction the viewfinder can be a real pain.

let us know what you choose and post some pictures, I for one enjoy seeing people getting happy!

Joey


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## carlmorrell

I have a Canon 60D.  It was an upgrade from an old Rebel 350. I bought it for several reasons, articulated viewfinder, live view, more ISO range.  But I really wish I had builtin Wifi.


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## Ed McDonnell

From my point of view you have put the cart before the horse.  Buying the best lens you can afford that will do the job you want will be a long lasting investment that will enable superb image production.  A really good lens will usually (but not always) cost as much or more than what you are considering for the body.  A good lens will last a lifetime.  Bodies come and go.  

Consider taking your old body in for service to have the viewfinder issues resolved.  Use the cleaned viewfinder for focusing and learn how to select focus points.  Spend your money on a good lens if you don't already have one.  I like to use a Canon 24-70mm f/2.8L.  That would put a dent in your budget, but it's an investment that would last a lifetime.  Another lens I like, especially for closeups is the Canon 100mm f/2.8 (non L version) macro.  Less of a shock to the budget, but will produce great images.

Plenty of other good lens out there.  Do some research on good lens for product photography.  Once you settle on your lens, then worry about the new body (or just get the current one you own cleaned up).  Or, being as handy as you are, you might be able to clean things up yourself if you can get a shop manual.

That's the way I look at it anyway.

Ed


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## BradG

Ed, thank's for your input. I no longer have that camera so il be picking up a new one.

I must admit I've not given much thought about the lenses other than picking the right mm one lol. il be sure to do some thorough research on those. I will only be using this camera for photographing pens and similar items. it will never be used for landscapes etc.

I don;t mind spending the same again on the lens, I can justify that... but I can;t justify spending over a grand (GBP) on a camera body. Which seems to rule out full size sensors leaving APS-C. A little concerning as I read that full sized sensors are generally recommended for product photography.


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## BradG

Ed McDonnell said:


> I like to use a Canon 24-70mm f/2.8L.  That would put a dent in your budget



I googled it. Nearly died.


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## Larryreitz

You might find this useful: http://www.dofmaster.com/doftable.html Depth of Field Table.
For the picture of your wife you may have had a limited DOF insufficient to get her in total focus.

And oh yes, after reading the description of your camera, I would definitely go for a new one.

And for what it's worth the end use of the image needs to be carefully considered.  If you are shooting for a magazine article enhancement can add considerable value and the likelihood of getting it published.  You have obviously considered this.  If you are shooting to try and sell something on ETSY, the image shown better look like the product the buyer receives or buyers remorse could set in.

Best of luck going forward.
Larry

One more thing.  One trick often lused is to photograph the object or person with a background of a different color,green is often selected.  
Select the background color in photo shop and with one click delete it.  Then you could place the pen on any background you want.


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## Ed McDonnell

BradG said:


> Ed McDonnell said:
> 
> 
> 
> I like to use a Canon 24-70mm f/2.8L.  That would put a dent in your budget
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I googled it. Nearly died.
Click to expand...


:biggrin:  Like I said, a lifetime investment.  And good glass really is an investment.  I could sell mine for more than I paid for it (unlike all the electronic devices that I'm using as doorstops and paperweights).

Did you google the Canon 100mm f/2.8 macro usm?  A lot less money, but a good lens.  You would likely find yourself moving the tripod a bit more with this lens, but you would have a lot more coin left in your pocket.

As to the body, I purchased a Canon 70D a couple of months ago.  I would not hesitate to recommend it.  The one feature I didn't care about when I bought it was the HD video capability.  After playing with it, it might be the thing I like most about the camera.  Video can be much more effective at selling than a still image.  With the 70D you would have both covered well.

I wouldn't worry about the smaller sensors and product photography.  The issues that people raise regarding the smaller sensors would largely be irrelevant to you in the real world.


Ed


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## bmachin

Brad, I would have to agree with Ed that lens selection is probably more important than camera body selection.  What focal length to choose, zoom vs fixed focal length, standard vs macro is a wide ranging discussion in itself.

I am one of those guys who buys as many books as he can afford before investing in expensive hardware.  I can't suggest any current books on product photography, since all of mine date back 20 years or so.  There is an excellent (although fairly expensive) book on light and lighting called Light Science & Magic available from Amazon which takes you through all kinds of lighting scenarios:

Light Science & Magic: An Introduction to Photographic Lighting: Fil Hunter, Steven Biver, Paul Fuqua: 9780415719407: Amazon.com: Books

While there are probably reasons for staying with a DSLR, it might be worth considering going with a mirrorless system, if for no other reason than to cut down on bulk and weight when you go on vacation.

You seem to have this one under control, but just in case, be aware that not all Wi-Fi is live view.

My 2 cents,
Bill


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## ssalvage

Finally a topic that I feel I can offer some advice in.  There have been some excellent tips given here, and I have to second some of them.

1) Invest in a good lens. This is your #1 priority.

2) Of the 3 camera models you mentioned, and for the purpose you intend to use them, there is essentially no difference. Go for the least expensive one.

3) Photography is all about the control or manipulation of light. Yes, you will need to have a method to make the light do what you want, to achieve the results you are looking for. A lighting tent is not required, but will make this task a LOT easier. (as can be seen in the Montblanc pic you posted)

4) Product photography, in itself, is a specialized skill that requires creativity and an excellent eye for detail. (A good video showing some of the details involved can be seen here: https://youtu.be/JP3ykBzk_RU) 

5) A good amount of post production will be required. *ALWAYS* shoot your photos in RAW mode. This allows you the most flexibility during post production.


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## bmachin

One other thing comes to mind.  In the DSLR universe you are going to find Canon people and you are going to find Nikon people.  At the end of the day there is no difference in what either system can do--at least in my not-quite-up-to-date world. and at any given price point, camera bodies are going to be quite comparable.

Since you are more or less starting from scratch with no legacy lenses or accessories, I think it would be worth your while to get thee to a camera store and handle both systems, then buy the one that feels best to you and the way you work.

FWIW
Bill


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## jvisaac

*Good lens*

I have a canon T3i and a prime lens (Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 STM Lens) and I am extremely happy with the lens.  This lens is relatively inexpensive , I believe ~$125 on Amazon.  If you are on a tri-pod and have good lighting you can avoid a lot of post processing activities.  I also recommend checking out SLR Lounge's website (https://www.slrlounge.com/), they have a lot of good tutorials on photography, lighting and product photography.  Good luck!


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## BradG

Ed McDonnell said:


> Did you google the Canon 100mm f/2.8 macro usm?
> Ed



I did, and that's more in my price range  out of curiosity, what makes it a better lens compared to the $125 jvisacc mentioned? (Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 STM Lens)

I can see it's a 50mm, which would be a wider view, and it has a different F stop number, though I've no idea what that means :redface:

Quite a price difference between the two


Thanks everyone else for their valuable input. I've picked up some great tips from everyone


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## Ed McDonnell

BradG said:


> Ed McDonnell said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did you google the Canon 100mm f/2.8 macro usm?
> Ed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did, and that's more in my price range  out of curiosity, what makes it a better lens compared to the $125 jvisacc mentioned? (Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 STM Lens)
> 
> I can see it's a 50mm, which would be a wider view, and it has a different F stop number, though I've no idea what that means :redface:
> 
> Quite a price difference between the two
> 
> 
> Thanks everyone else for their valuable input. I've picked up some great tips from everyone
Click to expand...


Let's break out the questions:

1 - WTF is that F number?  Keeping it simple, it is a measure of how wide the lens can open to allow in light.  The lower the F number, the lower the light you can get a picture, all other things being equal.  Also, the lower the F you use, the shallower your depth of field (area in focus).  Not knowing what the F is and wanting to do excellent product photography is a bit like not knowing the difference between AC and DC and wanting to build excellent electronics....

2 - What makes the 100m a better lens than the 50mm?  That answer will depend on the usage.  Using a studio product shoot with controlled lighting as a frame of reference, the 100mm lens I referenced will be sharper at most settings in more of the picture  than the 50mm.   Chromatic aberration is also better across more of the picture.  The 100mm has macro capability and the 50mm doesn't.  If you want to get an uber closeup of some element of the pen, the macro capability will be super helpful.  I have the older version of the 50mm lens and it is a decent lens.    If I didn't have it, I wouldn't miss it.  If I didn't have the 100mm macro, I would definitely miss it.

Other considerations.  The 50mm STM has a moveable front element for focusing.  It also has electronic rather than mechanical focusing.  I would not want to store the lens with the front element extended.  The only way to retract the front element is to have the lens attached to the camera, powered up and set in manual mode.  Then the focus ring will work.  Otherwise not.  You can still find the older version 50mm F/1.8 II and it should cost a bit less than the STM version.  It has mechanical focusing and the focus ring always works, whether attached or not or set to auto or manual.  Maybe not relevant if you plan on leaving the lens on the camera on a tripod in the studio.

Ignoring the difference in focal length, the difference in image quality between the two lens is a result of the quality (and quantity) of glass (better and more in the 100mm lens).  It's not like they used old coke bottles to make the 50mm less expensive or anything.  It's good value for the money and will get excellent results under the right conditions.  The 100mm will bet able to get excellent results under more diverse conditions and it has macro.

If you get the 50mm you will almost certainly be happy with the 50mm.  Until you want more.  If you get the 100mm you will almost certainly be happy with the 100mm.  Until you want more.  The date of wanting more will likely (but not certainly) be further out with the 100mm.

All just my biased opinions.

By the way, Bill is correct about Nikon / Canon.  Either one will serve you well.  I ended up in the canon camp because they had the first really good DSLR (that I could afford).  The small fortune that I have subsequently invested in Canon lenses keeps me in the Canon camp.  If I were starting today I would look long and hard at Nikon.  I think I would still end up in the Canon camp because I like the lens line up better at Canon than Nikon, but Canon is no longer at the cutting edge of DSLR technology (at the moment anyway).  That could change again in the coming years.  Most DSLRs today are capable of doing way more than their owners will ever ask of them.

Ed


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## farmer

*I enjoy photo*

Not all my pictures turn out great, but I have fun.
I think this photo was done with a canon t3i with a canon 50mm 1.8


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## BradG

Thank you very much for typing all of that up for me Ed, it certainly filled in alot of gaps for me. Il save up for the 100mm option you recommended 

Have to pay for these pen boxes first! (Cost more than the lens lol)


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## bmachin

I think you will be glad that you held off for the 100mm.  One thing that 
Ed didn't mention is working distance.  For example, if you photograph a pen 6" long to fill the diagonal of the APSC sensor, you will be about 6" away with a 24mm, 12" with a 50mm and about 24" with a 100mm.  The additional working distance with the longer lens will give you a lot more flexibility in terms of placing lights, etc.

Bill


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## Sylvanite

Brad,

A lot of good advice has been posted so far.  Let me just say that you don't need to spend a lot of money to take good pen photographs.  Take a look at http://www.penturners.org/forum/f24/photography-basics-composition-125808/.  Some of the pictures there were taken with an expensive DSLR with a "luxury" lens, and some with a point-and-shoot camera.  If you can't tell which ones were taken by which camera, then there's no point in worrying about the high-end lenses.  Another case in point is http://www.penturners.org/forum/f24/photo-better-110903/ where I show nearly identical pen photographs - one taken with an expensive macro lens, and one with a mid-level zoom lens.

Nikon and Canon are the two largest manufacturers, but Sony, Olympus, and Panasonic also make fine cameras.  Don't worry about sensor size either.  Sensor quality is much more important.  There are some excellent APS-C and Micro 4/3 sensor cameras out there.  In fact, a smaller sensor can actually be an _advantage_ in pen photography.  See The advantage of a point-and-shoot camera  for a detailed explanation.

I recommend you go to a camera store, and hold each of the models you think you might be interested in.  Find one that fits your hands as well as your pocketbook.  The first time I bought a camera, I wanted an Olympus based on reviews but when I actually held one, I found it was too small for me.  Nothing beats a hands-on trial.

You already have a good grasp of your current issues (focus), and a good idea for working on that (tethered shooting with live view).  A big part of photography is learning to see what is really in the viewfinder - not just what you want to see.  Live-view shooting really helps with that.  My second digital camera (a Canon 30D) supports tethered shooting but not live view.  That is, I can connect the camera to a computer, set the controls, and trigger the shutter remotely, but I don't see the result until after the shot).  I subsequently bought another camera body (a Canon 60D) primarily to get the live view feature.  With it, I can see the image on the computer screen (with continuous updates) _before_ taking the picture.  That makes it much easier to see what happens when I move lights or change the composition.  My pen photography improved more rapidly after that upgrade.  That's not to say that a point-and-shoot camera can't take an equally good photo - it's just much easier for me to get the shot with the DSLR.

Whatever camera and lens you wind up with, you'll need to invest in some photo editing software.  Again, you don't have to spend much.  I primarily use Photoshop Elements, which can be had for $50 on sale.  The MontBlanc pen photo you referenced had the background removed, so don't expect to get a pure white background without some work.

I hope that helps,
Eric


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## Sylvanite

bmachin said:


> For example, if you photograph a pen 6" long to fill the diagonal of the APSC sensor, you will be about 6" away with a 24mm, 12" with a 50mm and about 24" with a 100mm.


Ummm,

That's not my experience.  With an APS-C sensor camera, at around 2 to 2.5 feet away, I find that most of my pen photos fill the frame in the 50mm - 70mm focal length range.  I almost always use a zoom lens (either 24-105mm or 35-135mm), but also have 60mm and 85mm prime (fixed focal length) lenses.  Both of those work, but I find the 85mm lens puts me a bit farther away from the pen than I like.  100mm would require me to move back more.

Why does distance matter?  See http://www.penturners.org/forum/f24/photography-basics-perspective-122430/ for an explanation.

Regards,
Eric


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## Ed McDonnell

Hi Eric - I happened to have my Canon 70D + 100mm sitting on my desk next to a tape measure.  Just checked.  About 18" distance for a full frame pen diagonally.  About 24" horizontally.  So I get about the same measure as Bill.

I measured to the front of the lens.  Distance to the sensor would add another 7 or 8 inches.

Ed


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## Curly

*Out of the box option.*

I have is an Olympus Tough Series camera that works for me although if I was going to get another camera I would consider the AIR A01. Since it works with your smart phone or tablet wirelessly and can accept a variety of lenses at a lower cost than a camera body, around $400Can, it might have appeal to someone like yourself that snowboards and might want to take movies and then use it at home for the pen shooting. The lenses would also fit a Olympus camera body if you ever decided to get one too. Watch the video and you'll see what I mean.


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## BradG

Hi Eric
Thank you for the info. I've just taken  he time to read all of your threads on different aspects of photography and il be sure to take that one board.

I shall let you two debate the lens issue!


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## BradG

Curly said:


> I have is an Olympus Tough Series camera that works for me although if I was going to get another camera I would consider the AIR A01. Since it works with your smart phone or tablet wirelessly and can accept a variety of lenses at a lower cost than a camera body, around $400Can, it might have appeal to someone like yourself that snowboards and might want to take movies and then use it at home for the pen shooting. The lenses would also fit a Olympus camera body if you ever decided to get one too. Watch the video and you'll see what I mean.



wowsers, so far ive destroyed two cameras (luckily point and shoots) while crashing snowboarding. I don't think I would want an expensive one on the mountain! thanks for the suggestion never the less


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## projectgrover

*Camera vs lighting*

you should try a mirrorless system camera. I am guessing that you are shooting a longer exposure and the mirror going up and down is causing the blur. Since there is no mirror in them they tend to be sharper. Onto the crux of the issue of why you even need a tripod to shoot them in the first place is that you do not have sufficient light so you can try increasing you Iso settings so you can shoot at a faster shutter speed. I apologize if I repeated something someone else said I did not read all the responses. Also I have bean a professional photographer for 12 years and studied in small product photography


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