# Help with my dark images, please?



## jbswearingen

It's been a couple of years since I've done any real pen turning and product photography, and the lack of practice in shooting shows now.  I'm using Photomatix HDR software to combine three images at -1, 0, and +1 aperture steps.

Canon T4i camera
75-300mm lens so I can zoom in tightly (no macro lens...yet)
1600 ISO
1/400s
aperture set by camera
three 500 watt tungsten work lights--one on the left, right, and one above
translucent light box with a white back drop

I'm using Canon's Digital Photo Professional to process from RAW to JPEG, with minimal adjustments--mainly setting color temperature to 3300K and sharpening the image.

With that information, can any of you help with what to do to make the images better?

HDR image:







And the three images, processed from RAW to JPEG, fed into Photomatix.  I have raised the aperture 1.6 stops before processing to JPEG because they seem really dark.


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## Boz

The reason your images are dark is you are letting the camera set the aperture. The camera sees everything as 18% grey.  Your background is white.  Pure white is 1.5 or 2 stops brighter than 18%.  You can go to manual exposure and do the calculation in your head or you can program in an exposure compensation to over expose the image to get the correct exposure initially.  I have a Nikon so I can't give you details on how to do it with your Canon. In my mind it is always better to spend the extra time getting it right at the time of exposure than spending so much time fussing with the image in the computer.  But I am old school and come from the days where all we had was film and you had to get it right and you did not have a computer and all the fancy software to fall back on.


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## jbswearingen

Thanks, Boz.  I'll give that a try.


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## Sabaharr

+1 to Boz for the old school film process. Set the f-stop, film speed, and shutter speed and start snapping away. Perfect every time (at least after 10000 rolls of trial and error).


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## jsolie

Couple of questions:

Are you using a tripod?

Are you using a shutter release cord or the 10 second shutter timer?

I've done a few shots of the type you're trying to accomplish (enough to pay for my camera equipment and then some).  Once I know this, I'll have some specific suggestions.


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## SDB777

As a fellow HDR shooter for product placement.....


Get your ISO back to 100, noise is not your friend with HDR software.  If possible bracket your photo's at -2,0,+2(the extra range is helpful).  The f-stop sounds about right, and looks spot on as far as focusing....


Scott (few tweaks and you're there) B


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## Sylvanite

Starting from your last image, a few minutes in PhotoShop yielded this:






Your images do not exhibit extremely high contrast or dynamic range, so I don't believe HDR processing is worthwhile.

An ISO setting of 1600 is rather high for that camera, and will start to show digital noise (pixelization).  For best results, use ISO 100.  See http://www.penturners.org/forum/f24/photography-basics-iso-setting-116576/ for more information.

At the distance you're shooting, with a focal length of 170mm, the aperture of f/20 is more than sufficient to achieve the necessary depth-of-field.  I'd probably move in closer, zoom out, and (possibly) drop down to f/16.

I recommend turning off exposure bracketing, putting the camera in manual mode, and setting the exposure yourself.  Try starting out at:

ISO: 100
Aperture: f/16
Shutter Speed 1/30s

Which should yield an exposure similar to (or slightly brighter than) what you had.  You'll need a tripod.  Take a look at http://www.penturners.org/forum/f24/photography-basics-depth-field-116545/ and http://www.penturners.org/forum/f24/photography-basics-exposure-115586/ for more information, and also http://www.penturners.org/forum/f24/pen-photography-putting-concept-into-practice-128555/ to see how the settings interact.  If you'd rather see all the info in one place, check out http://content.penturners.org/library/techniques/pen_photog.pdf.

I hope that helps,
Eric


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## jbswearingen

jsolie said:


> Couple of questions:
> 
> Are you using a tripod?
> 
> Are you using a shutter release cord or the 10 second shutter timer?
> 
> I've done a few shots of the type you're trying to accomplish (enough to pay for my camera equipment and then some).  Once I know this, I'll have some specific suggestions.




Yes, a tripod and shutter release cord.



SDB777 said:


> As a fellow HDR shooter for product placement.....
> 
> 
> Get your ISO back to 100, noise is not your friend with HDR software.  If possible bracket your photo's at -2,0,+2(the extra range is helpful).  The f-stop sounds about right, and looks spot on as far as focusing....
> 
> 
> Scott (few tweaks and you're there) B



Cool.



Sylvanite said:


> Starting from your last image, a few minutes in PhotoShop yielded this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your images do not exhibit extremely high contrast or dynamic range, so I don't believe HDR processing is worthwhile.
> 
> An ISO setting of 1600 is rather high for that camera, and will start to show digital noise (pixelization).  For best results, use ISO 100.  See http://www.penturners.org/forum/f24/photography-basics-iso-setting-116576/ for more information.
> 
> At the distance you're shooting, with a focal length of 170mm, the aperture of f/20 is more than sufficient to achieve the necessary depth-of-field.  I'd probably move in closer, zoom out, and (possibly) drop down to f/16.
> 
> I recommend turning off exposure bracketing, putting the camera in manual mode, and setting the exposure yourself.  Try starting out at:
> 
> ISO: 100
> Aperture: f/16
> Shutter Speed 1/30s
> 
> Which should yield an exposure similar to (or slightly brighter than) what you had.  You'll need a tripod.  Take a look at http://www.penturners.org/forum/f24/photography-basics-depth-field-116545/ and http://www.penturners.org/forum/f24/photography-basics-exposure-115586/ for more information, and also http://www.penturners.org/forum/f24/pen-photography-putting-concept-into-practice-128555/ to see how the settings interact.  If you'd rather see all the info in one place, check out http://content.penturners.org/library/techniques/pen_photog.pdf.
> 
> I hope that helps,
> Eric




I've had really nice results from HDR shooting, but it's been a few years (and on an older camera), so I've forgotten how to set it up.

I'll play with the suggestions offered here (including non-HDR shooting) and get back to you guys.

Thanks a bunch.


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## jbswearingen

I don't have Photoshop, so I'm stuck with the basic editing capabilities of my Canon software. 

First image is the HDR version.






It's not *bad*, but I think I like the "regular", non-merged version:







ISO 100
1/30s shutter speed
auto aperture

Thanks, folks.  I think with a little more tweaking I'll be good.  As it is, this is MUCH better.


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## jsolie

jbswearingen said:


> Yes, a tripod and shutter release cord.



Good.

Eric is right on with some setting to try.  Manual mode is your friend here, as is ISO 100.  On a Canon, I forget which wheel controls which setting.  The thumbwheel on the back controls either shutter speed or aperture.  The wheel by the shutter release button controls the other.

What I would try for is get your aperture somewhere f/8 to f/16.  f/16 will give you much better depth of field (more of the pen in focus), but for side shots like what you've shown, f/8 might be enough.

At the bottom of the viewfinder is the exposure meter.  While either looking through the camera (or via live-view if your camera has that), run the wheel for the shutter button until the little tick mark moves up to around the +1 area.  Try taking a photo and preview it.  If it's too dark, keep moving on up.  Overexposed, back it down a notch or two.  If you max it out and things are still too dark, drop your aperture by one setting, or increase your ISO up one setting.  The trick is to sneak up on it (kind of like how Tim Yoder always says to sneak up on a bead).

Anyway, I hope this helps!


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## tjv

Trying to sum up:

1. Tripod - good
2. Cable release - good
3.  HDR - no point 
4. High ISO - bad
5. Using a 70-300 at the working distances I suspect (300-600mm), you have no depth of field so whether you set the lens to f/4 or f/22 it's not going to improve your DOF.  Around f/8 or f/11 is where you will get a millimetre or 2 and its likely to be the sweet spot for this type of lens.

So, I'd set ISO 100, f/8 or f/11, frame the shot and let the camera determine shutter speed.  Since your pen isn't going to take off in a hurry shutter speed isn't critical.

I shoot a Fuji XT-1 with either a 18-55 or 50-200 and always ISO 100-200 and f/8 or f/11.  I shoot to the right, i.e. I over-expose to the right end of the histogram (+1EV max.) and process through Lightroom/Photoshop.  In Lightroom I remove any sharpening and reduce exposure by 1EV (sounds counter-intuitive) open in Photoshop and use a proprietary action (sorry but can't hand out) to process.  I'll then set levels to get the background as close to white as possible and add contrast.

I'll then take the time (usually 2-3 minutes) to cut the pen from its background and place it on whatever coloured/textured background I like, but mostly white at this point.)

A recently processed photo:





By no means perfect.  I still need to decided on whether I put shadow back in, how I do close-ups of detail etc.The important bit is to practice, learn and improve.

Hope this helps and more than happy to share my experiences.

Cheers and beers
Tony


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## thewishman

Picasa is free and gives you plenty of tools to fiddle around with your pictures. Less powerful than Photoshop and less complicated to start out.


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## SDB777

jbswearingen said:


> I don't have Photoshop, so I'm stuck with the basic editing capabilities of my Canon software.
> 
> First image is the HDR version.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not *bad*, but I think I like the "regular", non-merged version:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ISO 100
> 1/30s shutter speed
> auto aperture
> 
> Thanks, folks.  I think with a little more tweaking I'll be good.  As it is, this is MUCH better.


 

Loss of detail in the non-HDR might be able to be brought around with about 2/3stop added, but at the expense of added noise. But on a forum it wouldn't account for much due to the low-resolution required....

Remember, HDR doesn't just 'fill in' stuff, it reduces noise in the image....and if you have a website that you can use high resolution imagery on....it will help.

Personally, I buy the pens in the first image because the photo is better....the second image looks dark, like someone was trying to hide something(YMMV).....





Scott (jump on) B


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## projectgrover

jbswearingen said:


> I don't have Photoshop, so I'm stuck with the basic editing capabilities of my Canon software.



Download gimp it's similar to photoshop but free.


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## stuckinohio

Thank you for this thread. I have lots or reading to do. I'm sure my photo taking skills cost me some votes in the various summer bash contests! That and miserable lighting.


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