# Using Mini Metal Lathe for Pen Turning



## BigShed (Feb 28, 2008)

This may be a silly question, but I'll ask it anyway

I have been considering buying a dedicated pen lathe, such as a Jet Mini.

Ideally it would have EVS (electronic variable speed) from, say, 0 - 3000.

Now all the mini wood turning lathes I have looked at can achieve that BUT only by changing belts for about 3 manual ranges.

To me this defeats the purpose of having EVS!

So, the thought occurred to me, why not use a mini metal lathe, such as a 7x10, 7x12, or even 7x14.

They go down as low as 30 rpm, have a High and Low range, selected by a simple lever, no belts to change.

They have a 1/2-3/4hp motor, have a V type bed (tail stock is more accurately located than on most mini wood lathes, have MT spindle and tail stock, so all "normal" pen turning mandrels etc should work.

Most seem to have an MT3 head stock spindle, but a simple MT3 to MT2 adapter should take care of that.

Price wise they are not much dearer than a reasonable quality mini wood lathe, plus you get "two for the price of one"

Only drawback I can come up with is that you would have to fashion a conventional wood turning type tool rest to fit on the tool post.

So (finally) my question is this, has anyone done this?

Surely I cannot be the first one to think "outside the square"?

Or if no one has done it, can you think of a valid reason why this wouldn't work?

One comment I got from a metal turner was "you wouldn't want to get all that wood dust/shavings all over your metal lathe". Only thing defeating that argument was that he was turning acrylic whilst he was saying it!

Just think, as well as pens, I could turn custom metal/plastic pen parts, custom bushes and a whole lot of other possibilities that will present themselves as I get used to its' capabilities.

Tell me what you think, am I mad or dreaming, or is this at least a possibility?


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## lane223 (Feb 28, 2008)

No idea if your mad or if I'm in your dream, but your logic is sound. As  far as getting wood in your lathe, there is a solution.... clean it every so often. If you want to go off the scale, think of what happens if you use one of those tool post grinders with a lathe. Where does that grit go? However I think you missed one point. I got my small wood lathe for around 250â‚¬ (Euros) and a decent mini lathe cost at least twice to four times that new. 

I won't save any money though because I bought the wood lathe and I'll buy the metal lathe too. Plus, I've just got a tiny unimat SL metal lathe to play with too.


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## England14 (Feb 28, 2008)

Metal lathes are not fast enough.  And most metal lathes even EVS still have belts to change the range.  My choice would be to have both.  Which I do.  I have two no three wood lathes and a couple metal lathes and one milling machine.


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## BigShed (Feb 28, 2008)

> _Originally posted by England14_
> 
> Metal lathes are not fast enough.  And most metal lathes even EVS still have belts to change the range.  My choice would be to have both.  Which I do.  I have two no three wood lathes and a couple metal lathes and one milling machine.



Thanks for that, however the 7x14 I have looked at has 2 speed ranges, selected with a lever (no belts to change). Low range gives 100-1200RPM, High range gives 100-3000RPM, so speeds up to the normal high on a mini wood lathe.


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## BRobbins629 (Feb 28, 2008)

I use my metal lathe all the time to turn pens.  Little Machine shop sells a tool rest if  you want to go that route, else you can use metal cutting tools quite easily.  Final shaping can be done with sand paper or files or with the LMS or home made tool rest.  Only thing I do not do on it is CA finish, but I may even do that with some care.  You can also get a 3MT collet chuck that fits right in the headstock with no adapter, or as you said you can go with the 3MT to 2 MT adapter.  A much more versatile lathe than the wood minis.  Go for it.  You won't be dissapointed.

Also if you have an air compressor, it blows the shavings and sawdust off easily.


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## BigShed (Feb 28, 2008)

> _Originally posted by lane223_
> 
> No idea if your mad or if I'm in your dream, but your logic is sound. As  far as getting wood in your lathe, there is a solution.... clean it every so often. If you want to go off the scale, think of what happens if you use one of those tool post grinders with a lathe. Where does that grit go? However I think you missed one point. I got my small wood lathe for around 250â‚¬ (Euros) and a decent mini lathe cost at least twice to four times that new.
> 
> I won't save any money though because I bought the wood lathe and I'll buy the metal lathe too. Plus, I've just got a tiny unimat SL metal lathe to play with too.



The Mini Metal Lathe I'm looking at sells for $A895, the EVS Mini Wood Lathe (Woodfast - 2 belt changes for whole range) sells for $A795, so not much difference. The Vicmarc VL100 in EVS sells for $A1995, the Jet Mini EVS is $A699.

Admittedly, non-EVS mini wood lathes can be had for as low as $A242.


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## BigShed (Feb 28, 2008)

> _Originally posted by BRobbins629_
> 
> I use my metal lathe all the time to turn pens.  Little Machine shop sells a tool rest if  you want to go that route, else you can use metal cutting tools quite easily.  Final shaping can be done with sand paper or files or with the LMS or home made tool rest.  Only thing I do not do on it is CA finish, but I may even do that with some care.  You can also get a 3MT collet chuck that fits right in the headstock with no adapter, or as you said you can go with the 3MT to 2 MT adapter.  A much more versatile lathe than the wood minis.  Go for it.  You won't be dissapointed.
> 
> Also if you have an air compressor, it blows the shavings and sawdust off easily.



Nice to see some encouragement! I am not familiar with LMS - Little Machine Shop, but will google it.
As I am not a machinist (retired industrial paint chemist turned computer consultant) I am not altogether sure what a collet chuck is.

Is this like the adjustable mandrel I use, that has an MT2 and a little collet type arrangement to hold the A type mandrel? 

Yes, I do have a compressor and tend to use use it a lot for housekeeping functions, as well as the ShopVac, probably habits picked up over a lifetime working in a laboratory environment where "cleanliness is next to Godliness"


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## BigShed (Feb 28, 2008)

OK, found the tool rest at LMS, this the one you are talking about?

http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1685&category=

As there are 3 different tool rests for wood turning listed there, I am pleased to see that obviously there are other people doing wood turning on their metal lathes! Was starting to think that I was hallucinating!

As for the collet chucks, I found quite a few but not sure what I need there.


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## johnnycnc (Feb 28, 2008)

I think a mini metal lathe is a great idea,
I don't have one,but it is in the near future for me.
I make my living making metal chips,and can tell you,wood
dust should pose no problem for a metalworking machine;
the metal isn't all big,one piece shavings,it often is like a coarse grit,and I don't 
believe any wood can rival that.
I say go for it!


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## Ron in Drums PA (Feb 28, 2008)

I think a mini metal lathe is a really good idea. I've been think about getting one myself.

I recently picked up a book called "Run a Lathe" which was published in 1914 by South Bend. It was used in a HS Shop class back then and has all the basics on how to run a metal lathe. It is surprising how little things have changed. One chapter goes into the modifications that the student can manufacture to turn wood. All that is needed is a hand rest (we call it a tool rest), a spur center and a cup center.


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## jhs494 (Feb 28, 2008)

I recently added an old Southbend metal lathe to my home shop.
The lathe was made in the early 30's. It has a toolpost attachment that came with it where you can remove the compound from the lathe and insert a tool rest for wood turning. It has three different length toolrest that fit into it. 
 Just be sure and keep the ways clean. Wood dust tends to absorb oil and you would not want to cause corrosion between the carriage and the ways. In a metal lathe the carriage actually runs on the thin film of oil between it and the ways. This prevent wear to the ways.

This is just my humble opinion.


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## rlharding (Feb 28, 2008)

Would something like this take the place of the tap & die sets we are ordering?

http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=3111&category=


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## jhs494 (Feb 28, 2008)

> _Originally posted by rlharding_
> 
> Would something like this take the place of the tap & die sets we are ordering?
> 
> http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=3111&category=


Are you refering to the special tap and die for the FP?


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## BRobbins629 (Feb 28, 2008)

> _Originally posted by BigShed_
> 
> OK, found the tool rest at LMS, this the one you are talking about?
> 
> ...



From one chemist to another - Yes - thats the tool rest I was thinking of.  As for collet chucks, in my opinion, look on ebay or other places for a 3MT ER32 collet chuck than either get as large a set of ER32 collets that you can afford or a 1/4 ER32 which will hold a pen mandrel and get you started.  You will soon discover that you want more.  Sets of ER32 collets are available from 800watt on ebay.  Several from IAP have bought from him and his prices are reasonable.  He may or may not have the 3MT collet chuck but they are around if you look.


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## rlharding (Feb 28, 2008)

Yes, The tap & die for the fountain pen. I just can't get my head around the need to go to Russia.


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## johncrane (Feb 28, 2008)

Why[?] same reason we go too Asia, China, they work for s---f all $$$$[:0][V]


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## bitshird (Feb 29, 2008)

I never have had access to a wood lathe, I have made most of my bushings, and mandrels as well as a bit over 100 pens, pencils,and key rings on a Jet 920 BN metal lathe, using regular 3/8 Highspeed steel lathe bits, keep a few shaped for profile turning (making beads and big bellies), My lathe turns around  2000 rpm which isn't as fast as some wood lathes, I can drop down to 120 rpm and that's slow enough to do CA on, I just cover my bedways with a paper towel.
 On the 7x12 lathe you don't have to change any pulley positions, but the speed control boards are weak, and you should not try to start the lathe at any thing other than the lowest speed and then crank it up.


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## Daniel (Mar 1, 2008)

I use a Homier (same a harbor freight) 7X12 mini metal lathe. You are correct that there is no belt to change. I think the #3 MT- #2 MT adaptor would take to much room out fo the bed length. I simply hold a mandrel in the jaws that came with the lathe, works great. I also have the tool rest from Little machine shop but do not use it. need to give it a try again now that i have the lathe in my shop. very noce smooth powerful little lathe.
I got my collet chuck and collets from 800watt on e-bay. they work just fine so far. Be careful though you can really drop a lot of money into a metal lathe. Wouldn't want to see you penmaking suffer, But I really incourage you in your line of thinking.


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## Ron in Drums PA (Mar 1, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Daniel_
> 
> I use a Homier (same a harbor freight) 7X12 mini metal lathe. You are correct that there is no belt to change. I think the #3 MT- #2 MT adaptor would take to much room out fo the bed length. I simply hold a mandrel in the jaws that came with the lathe, works great. I also have the tool rest from Little machine shop but do not use it. need to give it a try again now that i have the lathe in my shop. very noce smooth powerful little lathe.
> I got my collet chuck and collets from 800watt on e-bay. they work just fine so far. Be careful though you can really drop a lot of money into a metal lathe. Wouldn't want to see you penmaking suffer, But I really incourage you in your line of thinking.



This is one of the lathes I've been considering. Sounds as if you like this lathe. Any negatives you care to mention?


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## Chuck Key (Mar 1, 2008)

> _Originally posted by bitshird_
> 
> On the 7x12 lathe you don't have to change any pulley positions, but the speed control boards are weak, and you should not try to start the lathe at any thing other than the lowest speed and then crank it up.



I would not consider the original Homier speed control very weak.  I have been using mine for about 6 six years with no problems at all.  Also, you cannot start the lathe at anything but the lowest speed actually zero speed.  The electronics in the speed controller will not allow it.

Chuckie


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## Texatdurango (Mar 1, 2008)

> _Originally posted by BigShed_
> 
> ...Tell me what you think, am I mad or dreaming, or is this at least a possibility?


Fred, I think you would be surprised to learn how many here are using metal lathes to make nice pens.  Making your own bushings, custom closed end mandrels and other metal parts is nice as well as being able to make a perfectly straight barrel when you need to.  

I too am looking into adding one in my shop.  I started out looking at the Harbor Freight models but several more experienced turners recommended the Microlux 7 x 14 http://micromark.com/), as they have more nice features, are capable of holding closer tolerences and are generally thought to be better quality.

As far as speed goes, I never run my Jet mini lathe faster than the metal lathes can go anyway!

*Ruth*, During the purchase decision of the tap/die sets, threading on a metal lathe was discussed.  In a nutshell, threading, especially fine threading for pen bodies and caps is not a skill one picks up overnight.  Plan on spending months if not years honing your threading skills before attempting threading the inside of a cap.  And it was Poland not Russia![)][]


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## Ron in Drums PA (Mar 1, 2008)

George that is the other lathe I'm considering. I've heard many good things about it too.

Check out this site for some info http://www.mini-lathe.com/Default.htm


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## jhs494 (Mar 1, 2008)

> _Originally posted by rlharding_
> 
> Yes, The tap & die for the fountain pen. I just can't get my head around the need to go to Russia.


I believe the T&D set are for a multi lead thread. Doing this on a manual lathe is possible although very tough. Having over 25 years as a machinist, I have only once ever cut multi lead threads on a manual lathe. It was a double lead and it was tough. If you were chasing them on a CNC lathe it is a completely different story.

Chasing standard single lead threads, once you learn it, not a problem.
IMHO, if you want to cut your own threads buy the T&D set.


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## BigShed (Mar 1, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Ron in Drums PA_
> 
> George that is the other lathe I'm considering. I've heard many good things about it too.
> 
> Check out this site for some info http://www.mini-lathe.com/Default.htm



That is the lathe I'm considering, except the local version is red and is on special for $A895.

http://www.carbatec.com.au/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=380_2460_2462


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## BigShed (Mar 1, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Texatdurango_
> Fred, I think you would be surprised to learn how many here are using metal lathes to make nice pens.  Making your own bushings, custom closed end mandrels and other metal parts is nice as well as being able to make a perfectly straight barrel when you need to.
> 
> I too am looking into adding one in my shop.  I started out looking at the Harbor Freight models but several more experienced turners recommended the Microlux 7 x 14 http://micromark.com/), as they have more nice features, are capable of holding closer tolerences and are generally thought to be better quality.
> ...



George, it is quite heartening to see so many positive responses to my question, also good to see that other people are already using a metal lathe for this.
The model I am looking at is very similar to the one on e the mini-lathe site, except it is red.
I don't have a lot of experience with metal lathes, other than in my misspent youth I had a summer job once using a metal lathe to make big aluminium gasket rings for marine engines Boy, that was a long time ago![:0]


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## MichaelS (Mar 4, 2008)

I am one click away from a micromark. Only one question. What tooling would you who do and use it for pens and bushings recommend.


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