# Posting pictures?????????????



## ctEaglesc (Sep 3, 2005)

When the photo experts post suggestions and tips, I normally don't understand what they are referring to.I'm sure they are great tips.
My purpose in writing this is to explain is simple terms how to get a picture of a pen to post on the forum.I remember when I was elated to get two pictures to post in a row even if they were lousy pictures.Quality can be tweaked with lighting set ups, etc. That is not something I am going to talk about  here.

I am a camera and computer Neanderthall.(My knuckles drag on the keyboad when I try to type)This is not to mean I don't appreciate the suggestions and tips, but when I have to do research to make something work I usually forget what it was I was trying to do in the first place.
I had a conversation with a forum member last nite and relived my frustrations of uploading pictures because he said he was experiencing the same frustrations I went through.
I have viewed some pens that I would like to get a better look at but for different reasons have found it difficult to view the  pens posted.
My camera is a Kodak I bought a few years ago at Wally World on closeout.It was reduced to $150.00 and that was about 1/2 price.
It is a Kodak dx3600 and received good reviews at the time and I believe it is a 2.1 megapixel camera.
Without getting technical these are the settings I have found that works best for close up pictures of pens.
1.If you can choose what type of picture to take go to the menu and select "best".That will limit the number of pictures but the quality will have the best detail you can take.

2.If you have a choice as to what type of picture you can take, pick the "flower".Even if your camera has a "zoom" lens the "flower" setting will probably take a much better picture for what you are trying to do.

3. If you can screw your camera onto a tripod use it. No shaking to knock you out of focus.Because of the "flower" setting you may have  to rig something to set the tripod on to make it adjustable so the pen can fill the viewing screen.

4. The timer setting is a good one if it is on your camera but not necessar.once you get the first picture on the forum you can experiment with that.

5.Frame the pen using the viewing screen not the view finder(unless you have an SLR digital.(I don't want to make this technical, but chances are if you paid for an SLR you know why you bought it and if you paid that kind of money you don't need any tips on taking pictures from me)

6.Try to keep the pen and the camera parallel to each other And "focus" on the center of the pen. This will keep the pen in perspective rather than having it appear that either end is longer than it really is.

7.A pen that is framed diagonally in the view screen will show as much pen as it can.
The frou- frou settings are nice and will look great in your catologue but I like the pen, the whole pen and nothing but the pen.
Also it is possible for the funky props  to "confuse" the camera (Did I say this wasn't going to be technical?)
When XP came out it was highly praised for its photo software.I do not use any photo programs other than it when I download my pictures into my computer.
I put them in "My Pictures" using the XP program.It is frusrating at times because the Kodak software wants to take over but it's my camera, computer, pen and picture and I think I should have a say as to how I download it and where I put it.

7.Resizing.
Because you selected "best" for the picture you can PRINT a BIG picture.The problem is you don't NEED, want, or are able to post big pictures here.This is the frustrating part of posting pictures on the IAP.
It is not the forums fault, but When I first started trying to upload pictures my failure rate was 90% and was quite frustrating to say the least.
I felt like I was playing a one armed bandit everytime I hit the submit button to upload a picture. ( I didn't get the three cherries) It was due to my lack of knowledge, I realize that now.
To upload pictures I found a foolproof "magic button". It is called image resizer in Windows power toys.It is a beta program and works everytime for me.
Here is the link:
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx
On the right hand side of the page is the resizer.It is your choice to install a beta(non supported) program in your computer, but I have been successfully using it  for over 8 months without a hitch.
Once the resizer is installed on your computer, a right click of the mouse button on your picture you wish to upload will bring up a window that has "resize" pictures on it.
when you choose that option  you will ge a screen that gives you choices of size to change your picture to.
I use small.
It will allow you to post your pictures anywhere on the site , at least that has been my experience.
Though it is permissable to post pictures up tp 90 somethings in a thread, anything over the smallest option makes it necessary to scroll to view a picture and all the posts that follow.For me that is as  obnoxious as writing every post in caps.  I don't bother reading those posts or looking at the pictures. If I have to scroll to see a pen I move on. The fact that the rest of the posts are too wide for my monitor is an inconvenience I don't need to put up with.
The choice is yours.

I got a little brave with the resizer option and clicked "Advanced" at the bottom of the window.
If you click both boxes you will have one picture in your album when you resize and it will be the one you want to post.If you don't select the option about not making copies, you will have more than one picture and they will be labeled according to size.Anything that is  not labeled is the original and probably will be too big too post.
Lastly. To upload the picture after you have selected the "insert image" on the submit a post form here on the forum,
When you open the file to select the folder, I have found that you always need to use the "Select" option.I am sure there is a correct term for this but if I try to open the file or folder with "open" I cannot get the picture to a point that will upload.
At the risk of getting technical I willoffer one litte tip I found out about my camera that may be of benifit to anyone whose camera is set up to do video out.
The same cord that allows me to use my T.V. as a viewer allows me to use a T.V. instead of the view screen on my camera.
When I am taking a lot of picurres,I plug my camera into the T.V. and use it to view the set-up before taking the picture.
My camera has a small viewing screen and many times it is hard to see if I have the whole pen in the picture.

I hope this will help anyone who has decided it was too frustrating to upload pictures. I had to use my trial and error method to get the success I have managed to get.
It is not the fault of anyone who has tried to help but the fact that I don't always understand information as it is offerd.
Also since I find the subject of Photography intimidating I don't read that forum very often.Because of that reason I have put this little "How to"(cringe) here.
My computer is relatively archaic,The camera is not much "newer" I don't like the software that came with either and don't want to buy anything more for the type of pictures I take.
I hope this helps someone.
Thanks for reading this.

(edit in)
If you notice, nowhere in this long winded "how to" do I mention using any programs or software to adjust the picure other than resizing.Those who can edit their pictures with the wonderful(usually after market purchased software do remarkable  things with it.Griz showed me what A different clip would look like on a pen I turned and I wondered how he managed to turn the same pen within a matter of minutes of my posting with the same woods.)
My method is bare bones.Normally once I get a picture in an editing program I futz with it and then decide the original captured what I wanted better than anything I did after the fact.I agree it 's fun and can also see the beniit from a design aspect.
That was not my purpose.My intention was to show a relatively painless, inexpensive(read cheap) way to get a viewable picture up loaded.
thanx again


----------



## mrcook4570 (Sep 3, 2005)

Ok, who stole Eagle's id and password and posted this "How to" article???[]


----------



## ctEaglesc (Sep 3, 2005)

> _Originally posted by mrcook4570_
> <br />Ok, who stole Eagle's id and password and posted this "How to" article???[]


----------



## jwoodwright (Sep 3, 2005)

That was great help Eagle.


----------



## wdcav1952 (Sep 3, 2005)

OK, Stan, you owe me for a new keyboard!  My old one is soaked by the spray of Diet Coke that erupted when I read your post!  (For you literal types, I'm kidding!!)

Thanks Eagle, both for the tutorial on the fly last night, and for writing it down today.


----------



## RussFairfield (Sep 3, 2005)

Excellent tutorial.

The only other thing that I might add will avoid the problem that I had with posting photos. Keep the photo file name simple. This Site doesn't like files with dashes, parens() or any characters or symbols other than letters and numbers.


----------



## Ligget (Sep 3, 2005)

Brilliant, thanks Eagle![][]


----------



## Old Griz (Sep 3, 2005)

_<b>OK since Eagle has started to post tutorials and share information, this is only fair</b>_
<b>I am going to stop sharing and posting information.... [][][]</b>

BTW, for those of you who take things a bit literally... this is a joke... [][]


----------



## ctEaglesc (Sep 3, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Old Griz_
> <br />_<b>OK since Eagle has started to post tutorials and share information, this is only fair</b>_
> <b>I am going to stop sharing and posting information.... [][][]</b>
> 
> BTW, for those of you who take things a bit literally... this is a joke... [][]


Hey Griz!.................

v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
I just saw the part where you said it was a joke... sorry.

(Gilda Radner voice on)
Never mind.
(Gilda Radner voice off)


----------



## wdcav1952 (Sep 3, 2005)

You know, in nature the eagles and the grizzlies tend to leave each other alone [] [] [] []

The emoticons indicate levity!  [}] [}] [}] [}]
This one however indicates devilment!


----------



## mrcook4570 (Sep 3, 2005)

> OK, Stan, you owe me for a new keyboard!


Your check is in the mail, William.[]

And, thank you Eagle.  Lots of good info there.


----------



## ctEaglesc (Sep 3, 2005)

William


I left the smilies out as I figured any "how to" thread I started might be considered a joke.
The levity was implied.
Do I need to post a link for you on the subject of subtle humor?
I can find one you know.
Besides any post I make about a "how to" just aint natural.

Fair Game!

( get it natural?...Fair GAME?)


----------



## mick (Sep 3, 2005)

> _Originally posted by cteaglesc_
> <br />
> Though it is permissable to post pictures up tp 90 somethings in a thread, anything over the smallest option makes it necessary to scroll to view a picture and all the posts that follow.For me that is as  obnoxious as writing every post in caps.  I don't bother reading those posts or looking at the pictures. If I have to scroll to see a pen I move on. The fact that the rest of the posts are too wide for my monitor is an inconvenience I don't need to put up with.
> The choice is yours.



Damn Eagle I always wondered why I had to scroll sometimes. You ain't as computer illiterate as you make out....lol Thanks... I do learn something here evereyday![]


----------



## Daniel (Sep 3, 2005)

Eagle,
Thanks for writing pen photography for dummies!!!
you did a good job with it.
I've tried to make a fairly big deal out of this issue for this reason.
on groups I have seen time and time again that a penturner really works hard to get there penmaking down. wether it is using the tools, getting that extra special finish or whatever, they finally get something they are proud of. only to come up against that wall of needing to learn how to get a good picture. without that ability they cannot trully share something they are really excited about. I have actually seen flame wars in the past over this issue. comments like "And what about those of us that turn a fine pen but either don't have a camera or can't take great pictures?"
for that reason alone I see a need for this info on this group. at least arm people with the info they need. and it can never be explained in enough ways. 
and remember, a more expensive camera does not take better pictures. more experienced photographers do. glad to see you made it over so many hurdles.


----------



## Rifleman1776 (Sep 4, 2005)

I use Photoshop Elements to edit my pictures. What I have found, but often forget, is that the size you adjust your picture to does not translate to that same size on the forum. A picture that you create at, say 5" wide, will show up here at about 3". When I am taking time with posting pictures I'll adjust using file size. If the forum server gremlins reject as too big, it only takes a few seconds to import back into PE, or any photo editing program, cut down and try again. Getting just under 90kb makes it 'just right'.


----------



## ctEaglesc (Sep 4, 2005)

Frank-
Please don't take offense at what I am about to say but your post is the reason I wrote what I did.
While talking to Cav on the phone, an educated person,He made the statement "I was so frustarted attempting to upload photos I just gave up".That was exactly how I used to feel.
I did not understand anything you just wrote.
In my "how to" there are no descions to make.
I tried to use the KISS method.
No editing software is necessary other than resizing.
just click the buttons.
Explanations like yours have been posted before and in my case they were not very helpful.
If the picture is framed correctly with enough lighting the image resizer makes it automatic.
Not meant as an attack just an observation based on personal experience.


----------



## wdcav1952 (Sep 4, 2005)

Frank,

I've got to fly with Eagle on this one. []  I can do moderate oral surgery, complicated root canals, and think on my feet while taking relatively hostile questions from a group of 200 inmates.  When it comes to PhotoShop, at present I resemble a deer in the headlights!  I have the program, and hope to eventually learn to use it, but as yet I freeze up like my pipes did last winter when I try.  I don't think that I am alone in this, given the responses Eagle's how-to post has received.

As the "kinder, gentler" Eagle said, none of this is to be construed as an attack, just an explanation of why some of us need a simple approach to the subject of posting photos to the site.


----------



## jeff (Sep 4, 2005)

I'm open to suggestions on how to make photo uploading easier. I can auto resize, crop to any dimension, sharpen, etc., but since the server can't "see", I've always felt that your eyes should supervise the asjustments. []


----------



## alamocdc (Sep 4, 2005)

Jeff, I don't know that there is much you can do. I resize all my pics to ~640 pixels, but that doesn't always help. Some of the "high powered" graphics programs, like PhotoShop, Fireworks, etc., leave too much "stuff" (sampling information, color pallette, software tags, etc. for you technical types) in the graphic after resizing. This extra stuff can leave the file anywhere from 3 - 25KB larger than the 90KB limit. The result, the pics won't upload so they have to be resized again. Eagle's explanation is simple and works because of the nature of the tool he uses for resizing. Their are ways to "remove" the "stuff" and trim the file size down. The easiest way is to save the file with MS Photo Editor. It came with a few versions of Windows, but is no longer available. I suspect it's the predecessor to the software Eagle is using.


----------



## ctEaglesc (Sep 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by jeff_
> <br />I'm open to suggestions on how to make photo uploading easier. I can auto resize, crop to any dimension, sharpen, etc., but since the server can't "see", I've always felt that your eyes should supervise the asjustments. []


JEff I think You hit on a point that expresses what I was trying to accomplish with my post.
I do not have enough knowledge about photography or computers to make an intelligent suggestion as to how to improve the present way it works.(Even if I wanted to use the thumbnail gizmo it doesn't work for my&lt;I have tried with the same frustrating results that I used to get when I first tried to upload pictures.
I found that using XP photosoftware and the image resizer in power toys, I could get a picure posted.
That is "mechanical"
There is a sense of accomplishment in successfully uploading your first picture of a pen you are proud of even if the picture itself sucks.
Lighting suggestions, color pallette, cropping, fancy borders, floating pens in mid air don't do me or anyone any good if I can't upload them.
If you boil down everything that I wrote in the post it can be stated this simply if you have the image resizer installed.

1.take the picture
2.download it into "My Pictures on your computer"
3.resize the picture
4 .post and insert the picture in the thread using the "insert image file" feature of the forum software.

Four steps. That's it, if the resizer is downloaded and installed.

( I am assuming most are using XP.If you are using Win98 then based on my experience, if you put your pictures in your computer with it you may never see them again.)

If someone has a way that it can be done with fewer steps all the better.
Adding anything else for a new "poster" might become extranious information.
Again my intent was to get "A" picture posted not a "Perfect Picture" posted.
Once the mechanics are mastered(should take about 5 minutes) then you can go playing around with lighting and all the rest of the stuff that you  think will enhance the presentation.(leaning the pen on something "artsy")
If I can offer one more suggestion.
If you haven't uploaded any pictures, make your first attempt to do so in your album.
The size limit is larger and you can get a lot by it.
(150 somethings as opposed to 90 somethings)
The average size of the pics I post is between 35-65 somethings,well within the forum limits and that includes my album and they seeem big enough for me on a small flat monitor..


----------



## vick (Sep 4, 2005)

http://www.codezwiz.com/viewlink-290.html
Paint dot net is a good free program that has some good features but is a lot easier to use than photo shop.  I am a DBA and programmer and I cannot figure out PhotoShop[B)]


----------



## Rifleman1776 (Sep 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by wdcav1952_
> <br />Frank,
> 
> I've got to fly with Eagle on this one. []  I can do moderate oral surgery, complicated root canals, and think on my feet while taking relatively hostile questions from a group of 200 inmates.  When it comes to PhotoShop, at present I resemble a deer in the headlights!  I have the program, and hope to eventually learn to use it, but as yet I freeze up like my pipes did last winter when I try.  I don't think that I am alone in this, given the responses Eagle's how-to post has received.
> ...





Wm., For twelve years I taught computer usage to a large club of retirees and wrote a computer advice column. And, all this, without being any kind of computer expert, I am totally non-geek. I am, however, a fairly adept computer 'user'. As such I helped a lot of people to learn how to use their computers without worrying about geeky stuff. One of the tips I often gave was, when learning new software, was to just 'click around' and see what was in the program. That is excellenet familiarization. As for Photoship Elements, it can be a complex program to use. There are many other simpler photo editing programs available. But for basic editing, I suggest you just learn to use the resizing and enhancing features first. At the top of the screen are those tools. For this forum you may never need anything other than the cropping, brightness/contrast controls and resizing tools. Cut the excess away from around your subject, lighten/darken to taste, adjust contrast to taste, resize either by pixel (that's geeky stuff) size or actual size. Play with any picture then when you close, if you don't want to save the changes, just check 'no' when the box appears. You can't hurt anything.


----------



## wdcav1952 (Sep 4, 2005)

Frank,

After 300  miles on the road today, 50 of which were the result of missing an exit [!] I am a bit tired.  At first I thought you were making one of those sly Arkansas digs, but realized you were trying to help.  For now, I'll stay with the power toys and power tools []  You and Griz have both given good advice WRT PhotoShop, and I promise to give it a try soon.  Those of us who are more into skews than pixels are just looking for a simple way to post our pens.

Thanks again, Eagle!


----------



## rtjw (Sep 4, 2005)

Okay Eagle, talked to you a couple of times this week. Prolly more than you wish, but here is my dilemma.

I have trouble posting pictures also, but mine is more with setup of the pen. These are great instructions Eagle. Now can you do a "How To" on pen set up?[]


----------



## ctEaglesc (Sep 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by rtjw_
> <br />Okay Eagle, talked to you a couple of times this week. Prolly more than you wish, but here is my dilemma.
> 
> I have trouble posting pictures also, but mine is more with setup of the pen. These are great instructions Eagle. Now can you do a "How To" on pen set up?[]


I'll catch some heat for this, but I don't care for the "Artsy-Fartsy" pen posses. 
All you need in the picure for the purpose of showing it  is the pen.
You don't need no steenkeng shells or blocks of wood or anything like that.
The backgrounds get confusing and detract  from what the intended subject is.
The friggin pen.
It started out as cute and now it is basically a mindless fad.


----------



## wdcav1952 (Sep 4, 2005)

Eagle, 
You almost made it 24 hours in your kinder, gentler phase.  BTW, when can we expect the next tutorial?  (Anybody got a ducking for cover emoticon?)  (Frank, please don't tell me your class of retirees can do emoticons! [}])


----------



## timdaleiden (Sep 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by wdcav1952_
> <br />
> Anybody got a ducking for cover emoticon?






<br />


----------



## wdcav1952 (Sep 4, 2005)

Thanks, Tim!  Since my foot has a curious affinity for my mouth, I really should get me a copy of that one!


----------



## timdaleiden (Sep 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by wdcav1952_
> <br />Thanks, Tim!  Since my foot has a curious affinity for my mouth, I really should get me a copy of that one!



 Join the Foot in the Mouth Guild, FMG for short. Our standards are not that high really, but you do have to make a social blunder that is both original and embarrassing. I made it on my first try. []


----------



## ctEaglesc (Sep 5, 2005)

> _Originally posted by timdaleiden_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...


THAT is funny![]

(edit in 7:00am)
I stand by my original remark.
The placement of a pen on something to lean against was novel at one time and I will admit attractive in some instances but ususally has nothing to do with the pen presented.
In the two forums where pens are shown SYOP and the Critiques forum the purpose is to show the pen.Anything more serves as a distraction.
I read some where that for display purposes the best display should be invisible so the item being viewd is the center of attention,That makes perfectly good sense.
In looking at some catologues and brochures of expensive pens recently I noted that the pens were not presented in any fancy backdrop.I.E. the pen, the whole pen and nothing but the pen.
To make my comment even more of a social blunder, if the maker of the pen feels it necessary to put it in an artsy photographic setting  they are sending the message to me
"this pen is not striking enough to stand alone" 
The the addition of other objects is intended to make the presentation pleasing, not the item (pen) that I am intended to pay attention to.
Even if the pen that is made is considered "art", the "frame" should be as understated as possible.
I make no apology, my point of view.
(This thread is now really getting hijacked and I am driving the vehicle)


----------



## Rifleman1776 (Sep 5, 2005)

Never an attack, Eagle. If I didn't explain well, my fault. But, it's basically just four clicks, using basic tools in PS. Now, I'm confused, you said, "I found that using XP photosoftware and the image resizer in power toys, I could get a picure posted." I use XP but don't have XP photosoftware, where did you get yours? BTW, I have at least four photo editing program PS, Kodak, Picasa, HP, probably more. Find PS easiest. Maybe it's what you get used to.


----------



## ctEaglesc (Sep 5, 2005)

Frank-
I don't know haow to make it any simpler.
I don't edit my pictures that I post.
XP came with a photho file in my documents.
They go from my camers to that location .
resize that's it.
The link to the resizer is in the original post.
There is a mickey mouse editing program in the software that came with my computer, I don't use it.
I have the Kodak program that came with the camera I don't use it either.
I use the 4 steps I listed with no other programs.


----------



## Fangar (Sep 5, 2005)

This topic seems to arise on almost every forum that I have visisted over the years.  It is a good one, and can often raise information that helps people post photos of their work.  Which is what we all like to see.  

I use a simple program that came with my digital camera to adjust the size down to 640x480 and often adjust brightness and contrast.  Compression is needed to knock the file size down.  Otherwise, it will be too large.

I agree that the backgrounds often detract from the pen.  However, I am guilty of that one.  When I photograph the pen, it is for my website.  I like the pens to have a similar presented sort of look there.  I guess I should also photo the pen without the background for the Critiques forum at the same time as I have noticed that at times joints can't been seen (Sometimes for the better [] ).  

The main problem I see is that the resolution or lighting is often so bad on some submitted photos that the pen can't even be seen.  

I think Eagle has raised some nice simple pointers, but I also don't think that it is always that easy. His method will work, but there are also some free simple tools available to greatly ehnace the process allowing for actual color and texture (Finish) portrayal.

Cheers,

Fangar


----------



## ctEaglesc (Sep 5, 2005)

Fangar-
You raised some great points and thanks for the comments.
The idea for the "how to" came from William's statement that trying to upload a picture was so frustrating that he had about given up.
I also had those feelings at one time.
Once someone gets the hang of posting a picture using the 4 step method they can always tweak their techniques to get better pictures.
Photography can be as simple or as complex as you want to make it and I like simple better.
I am not even a good photographer and should actually  refrain from using that phrase as a self description.I have already ticked off alot of pen turners in this world, no need to get the photographers up in arms against me also.
Granted we have a photography forum here but when I did lurk a little bit I understood very little of what was said.
It just may be  case that my basic software is not user friendly. I am not going out to be more software when the method I am using to post pens works.
You mentioned in your post reducing the size to 640 x 480 Call me dumb but my monitor is way bigger than that so your numbers don't mean anything to me.
Compression? what's that?
The resizer says small medium or large. Just like the fries at Mcdonalds.That I can relate with.
I posted a simple method and anything beyond that is information I don't need to know at this time.
They are probably some good tips and
I am sure most of it can be found in the photography forum but I don't read that forum  much as most of it is over my head.


----------



## Fangar (Sep 5, 2005)

Eagle,

Good points made in both your original post and the last. Keeping it simple, there are really two issues that come up when posting photos.  Viewable image size, or the size it shows up on your monitor/ screen, and file size, or how much space that the file takes up on disk.  

I understand and applaud your KISS method, as I think you intended to give a simple foundation to allow anyone to post.  However, I think that based on other peoples cameras and software, it might not work for all due to different compression settings in a given program.  Compression, simply put is like placing a threaded bolt in a vice.  You want to tighten it as much as you can without damaging the threads.  This whole goal of compression is to result in a smaller file size.   

I know that you don't like tutorials (When it comes to pen techniques anyways[] ) I might write up a tutorial if anyone would like, or ther are no objections.  It would really be the KISS +1 method that you started.

Cheers,

Fangar


----------



## ctEaglesc (Sep 5, 2005)

I know there have been instructions previously and there is also a photo FAQ(Ithink) that D.C. put together.
Anything that would help someone "tweaak" their photography I am sure will be a geat benifit.
(providing I understand it. (90 somethings is almost too technical for me and I can equate size with bags of French fries, small, medium and large I know that supersisize won't fit.)


----------

