# First Kitless: Homage a Dawn



## Kaspar (Sep 15, 2011)

I realize is might not be technically kitless because I used leftover parts from a PSI Apollo kit.  While I don't think much of PSI, they did a real good job getting the Gold Ti to look, well, gold.  I used the innards a while back for something else, and it seemed a shame to waste the rings and the clip.  Of course I could have done it without all that (except the clip) so I would say its my first kitless.  

It has few flaws, but I now know how to fix them, and my next should be perfect.  





I wanted my first kitless pen to be from one of Dawn "PR Princess's" Polyresins.  She was one of the first to really "get" how to do these homemade blanks.  As anyone who has done kitless with PR knows, it has many pitfalls, all of which I found.  I actually have not yet finished the nib.  But I'm almost there.  If I hadn't discovered a freebie of the Burnt Copper in my FIB (Forgot I Bought) box, I wouldn't have been able to finish it.  The main problem with PR is how hard and brittle it is.  Further compounding this is how the brittleness varies within even a single blank.  

You can tap thread it, as long as you leave enough supporting material around it.  You will have to "face" the first part of the hole because it will likely have chipping, but it works well.  However, die thread it at your peril.  (If you can do internal and external threading with a lathe, that would probably work.)  Thus to use PR with taps and dies, I recommend tap holes only, and anywhere the parts need to be joined do a screw made of Lucite.  (Lucite does not have this problem.  It is a dream to turn and thread.)

Along with using centerband threads on the nib, instead of the lower barrel, I wanted to do a postable finial.  That meant die threading, so I had to make Lucite triple start thread sleeves, slipped over a Burnt Copper tenon.  That meant that both required five different parts.  It took three tries to do the finial.  (I started hearing cracking sounds in my dreams.) 

Kitless can be done with PR, if you're willing to work through the complications.  Or perhaps some of the more expert kitless folks have found a better way, which I'd love to hear about.  I plan on doing Cetacean Seas, Golden Dawn, Verdigris, and Ancient Mars PRs at some point, but my next will be Lucite.


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## BRobbins629 (Sep 15, 2011)

Though not a panacea, you can make an insert with the same thread as the internal to provide support for when you cut external threads.  Makes a big difference in failure rate.  I made mine from delrin and cut a little slit in the top to screw in and out.

Nice start anyway.


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## Kaspar (Sep 15, 2011)

BRobbins629 said:


> Though not a panacea, you can make an insert with the same thread as the internal to provide support for when you cut external threads.  Makes a big difference in failure rate.  I made mine from delrin and cut a little slit in the top to screw in and out.
> 
> Nice start anyway.



Yeah, I did that.  I made two 3/8 NC24 delrin plugs for the tap holes in the lower barrel, and one with the M12 x .8 for the cap.  You definitely want to provide support for the PR whenever you can.  

The only real trouble was when it came time to die thread a PR tenon.  Especially one that small (3/8), although even the m12 x .8 was a mess.


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## Rick_G (Sep 15, 2011)

Looks great.  One of these days I may try that but I don't think it will be any time soon.


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## Rounder (Sep 15, 2011)

I have seen the outside threaded first and then a piece (delrin or similar material) that screws on to the outside threads, then drill and tap the inside threads. So it could work either way.


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## philb (Sep 15, 2011)

That's a stunner!!

Really need to get some taps and dies, seeing all these kitless Pena lately is near ripping me to purchase point!!


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## Toni (Sep 15, 2011)

Nice to see one of your creations Eric and you as well!!  Gorgeous Pen!!!!


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## Justturnin (Sep 15, 2011)

Wow, that is a great looking pen.  Maybe it is just me but I really like the bands to break up the pen.  Great job.


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## EarlD (Sep 15, 2011)

Congrats on a beautiful pen!
EarlD


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## 76winger (Sep 15, 2011)

Very nice looking pen. I think you did well for your first go-around.


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## Parson (Sep 15, 2011)

Love the craftsmanship!


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## drgoretex (Sep 15, 2011)

WOW!

Very, very impressive.  I have had so much trouble with PR that I have almost completely stopped using it.  You are inspiring me to put it back on the bench.  Though I must admit I have had ZERO success with any outside threading, and have no solution to this....any tips are welcome :redface:

Anyhow, gorgeous work there!

Ken


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## boxerman (Sep 15, 2011)

Wow that's one fine looking pen.


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## Brooks803 (Sep 15, 2011)

Wow Eric! That's beautiful! I did my first kitless in PR as well and I got lucky with the cap/body threads. The front section gave me alot of trouble though, I think it took me 4 blanks just to get that done. I also had nightmares about that "cracking" sound. You know you have to turn that die just one more time but you just don't want to! I like how you incorporated the bands and LOVE that you made it postable. With the cap/clip section, is that threaded as well or is it pressed in? You have such a perfect fit there! Congrats again!


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## Kaspar (Sep 15, 2011)

The cap finial / clip assembly  is threaded.  Everything is threaded.  It's really pretty cool to be able to do that now.  I've been hoarding extra special blanks for when I would finally be able to do this and I'm excited anew about making pens.    

I also finally hunkered down and learned to tram a four independent jaw chuck with a dial indicator.  It's not that hard but it seems daunting at first.  The 4 Indy Jaw chuck is my new best friend.  I may even sell off my Grizzly precision collet set.


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## workinforwood (Sep 16, 2011)

Looks super classy!


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## bluwolf (Sep 16, 2011)

That's very sharp looking. I'm usually not a fan of gold but it looks great with that color of blank.


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## alfa189 (Sep 16, 2011)

Sorry for the dumb question, but I LOVE that blank. Are they for sale anywhere?  I'm embarassed to admit that I tried googling Dawn the PR Princess and came up with zilch.


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## Kaspar (Sep 16, 2011)

Exoticblanks.com 

However, they are out of these at this time.


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## jasontg99 (Sep 17, 2011)

That is absolutely beautiful!


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## Kaspar (Sep 17, 2011)

Kaspar said:


> Exoticblanks.com
> 
> However, they are out of these at this time.




Looks like Dawn's been busy.  She has a few now.


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## hewunch (Sep 17, 2011)

I really like it.


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## wizard (Sep 18, 2011)

Eric, As usual, another gorgeous pen!! You picked a hell of project with which to start your kitless experience. Another testament to your skill and perseverance! Regards, Doc


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## PR_Princess (Sep 18, 2011)

Eric your pens are ALWAYS outstanding, always gorgeous, and always perfect! Everyone a  true work of art! But for you to choose to do PR, and my PR for your first  kitless...well you have now left me speechless! And forgive me, but even after all this time, I'm still not sure what to say. 

I am truly honored, humbled...and maybe  just little embarrassed too.  



Oh, BTW Eric I did want to say one more thing...





That is one heck of a pen!!!!


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## Kaspar (Sep 18, 2011)

wizard said:


> Eric, As usual, another gorgeous pen!! You picked a hell of project with which to start your kitless experience. Another testament to your skill and perseverance! Regards, Doc




If I had known at the beginning, I might have started with something else.  However, having it sussed, I know how to do it and I have some very sharp blanks that are just wasted on kits, yet too good not to use.  

I made about six pages of notes on this pen.  Some of the notes were superseded by the time I was done.   



PR_Princess said:


> Eric your pens are ALWAYS outstanding, always gorgeous, and always perfect! /




I know. :tongue:


I don't put up those that aren't.   :biggrin:


I seem to recall in reading through some of the casting threads, there is a PR type that, once cured, is easier to turn.  I don't know if switching to that is possible, or if it would solve all of the difficulties in doing a kitless PR pen, but perhaps it would be worth looking in to?  A metal lathe makes turning them round very safe and easy, but I did notice how some sections of even a single blank could have greater degrees of brittleness.  Bit one of those with a skew, and well ....  I can understand why some have had difficulty turning PR on a wood lathe.  Your single and multi-colored blanks are just too nice not to get used.  

At any rate, that one was worth the trouble.  I think, on this pen, I made just about every mistake one can with this kitless turning, and I know how to get around them, so I'll be doing more.  Save your best blanks for me.  :biggrin:


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## Kaspar (Sep 18, 2011)

And BTW, thanks all for looking and /or commenting!


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