# Relative Sales Volume



## Chasper (Nov 22, 2010)

It seemed that we had a pretty good show over the past weekend, sales were a little above our average for a major show. Today I saw the summary of the show survey results that the sellers turned in to the promoter and found out that our sales were below the average for the survey respondants. I've always thought that we were outselling the majority of the other sellers and was suprised to see that we fell below. 

The survey question is, how do you think your sales compare to the average sales of the shows you attend?


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## Mark (Nov 22, 2010)

We need to get into some "higher" Quality Shows. The ones we have been doing are basic church, firehouse, craft shows and several vendors have told my wife, she needs to get into the "juried" circuit. Next year we will be starting some of those. Some of the apps have gone out, but they are 4, 6, 8 months off at this point. But yeah, our sales have been below the show average, for sure.

I think we move more by word of mouth, than we have in the last 3 months of shows.


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## Chasper (Nov 23, 2010)

For me is it usually the smaller shows where I can sell well above the average of the other vendors.  In the big juried shows with hundreds of artists and jewelers there is a lot of competition for the available cash.


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## Mark (Nov 23, 2010)

Interesting. 

We get a lot of tire kickers. Key chains, fan pulls, maybe a slimline or two is what they are purchasing. Don't get me wrong. I'm not complaining. So far, we have made our table costs.

Being placed next to the Avon lady, doesn't seem to help... :frown:


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## makaiolani (Nov 23, 2010)

I generally stay out of the School and church shows.  My price points are too high for this.  One year I set out to do every craft fair and trade show I could.  At least 3 a month to find this out.


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## Chasper (Nov 24, 2010)

Sales are generally better at the bigger shows, but the competition is greater as well.  Sometimes the school and church shows have some of the right type of customers and the competition is light.  There is always someone else competiting for attention and money at the bigger shows.


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## ed4copies (Nov 24, 2010)

Gerry,

I always doubted those surveys.  

The people in the booths around you will give you a better guage, I believe.  At big shows, you usually know a few of the exhibitors.  I had a handful that "shared sales numbers" with me.  But, we were all pretty successful.  The ones that usually did not want to "say" what they were selling were usually also complaining about what a cruddy this one was.  (Compared to last year???  Or last week??? Or expectation??)

Also when we started doing shows (mid 90's), sales of ten times booth fees were "expected".  When we quit, five times booth fee was "GREAT" and, most said, RARE.


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## OKLAHOMAN (Nov 24, 2010)

Damn hate to agree with Ed once again:wink: but sigh...... I always gage the sales of those around me and a few of the vendors that SHARE their sales #"s. There is a jeweler from Florida that seems to get juried into a number of the same shows I do and our #"s are always within a few hundred of each other and a glass artist that is also within a few dollars at most shows. Where I disagree with Ed is  x's booth fees.
What are we calling booth fees? What the promoter charges for the space? Or what it cost us for the space in order to sell your product? I've always calculated my booth "cost" as total cost, hotel,travel expense,promoter cost,jury cost and yes even food, and I better dam well cover that 5 times or look for a new show.


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## PenMan1 (Nov 24, 2010)

Same here. We have a number of other artists that end up at the shows as us. We certainly compare notes and are always VERY close in sales, unless one of us has a new product, new display, etc.


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## ed4copies (Nov 24, 2010)

OKLAHOMAN said:


> Damn hate to agree with Ed once again:wink: but sigh...... I always gage the sales of those around me and a few of the vendors that SHARE their sales #"s. There is a jeweler from Florida that seems to get juried into a number of the same shows I do and our #"s are always within a few hundred of each other and a glass artist that is also within a few dollars at most shows. Where I disagree with Ed is  x's booth fees.
> What are we calling booth fees? What the promoter charges for the space? Or what it cost us for the space in order to sell your product? I've always calculated my booth "cost" as total cost, hotel,travel expense,promoter cost,jury cost and yes even food, and I better dam well cover that 5 times or look for a new show.



That is the number we worked off of, Roy and that could well be why YOU are still doing them and WE are not!!  I salute you and all the other show exhibitors who are still "making a go".  For us, the numbers just got too low--and our friends had already QUIT---they were not willing to work as cheaply as we were.


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## Smitty37 (Nov 24, 2010)

*Not Surprised*

I'm not surprised that the return multiple at shows has declined over the last 15 years.  "Art" depends greatly on what is "in" which changes over time. Also, the tendency to over indulge in visible trappings that said "I've made it" has been declining, some of the more expensive brands are now putting the labels/brand name inside again.  I just heard recently that it is now "in" among the uppper middle income group to shop at "Sally's Boutique' or Goodwill Industries.

Not making as much at shows has worked its way down also.

 I have noticed in the last 2 -3 years that the small local shows are "dropping" dead.  Myy wife and I (well OK my wife) used to find booths filled with hand made crafts usually made by someone local and reflected the "beaches" Shells, starfish, horseshoe crabs etc..  Now the "crafts" are nearly all manufactured - mostly somewhere in Asia.  They have that "Walmart" feel to them.


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## bitshird (Nov 24, 2010)

Mark said:


> We need to get into some "higher" Quality Shows. The ones we have been doing are basic church, firehouse, craft shows and several vendors have told my wife, she needs to get into the "juried" circuit. Next year we will be starting some of those. Some of the apps have gone out, but they are 4, 6, 8 months off at this point. But yeah, our sales have been below the show average, for sure.
> 
> I think we move more by word of mouth, than we have in the last 3 months of shows.



Mark, We just finished the second best show in West Tennessee, a very high 400.00 a space show, last year we did almost 1800.00 for the show, and anticipated doing better this year with our bowls abd other turnings. BUT we came up short. This was a Gift show, I have found this to draw a larger more prepared to buy market, (in my area) in other Art and craft shows are much better.



Chasper said:


> For me is it usually the smaller shows where I can sell well above the average of the other vendors.  In the big juried shows with hundreds of artists and jewelers there is a lot of competition for the available cash.



I thoroughly agree in the gift shows it's the same, cheaper prices lower quality but still bling bling and then the jury process it's self. BUT I think people expect to pay nore for an item at an Art or Art and Craft venue.



OKLAHOMAN said:


> Damn hate to agree with Ed once again:wink: but sigh...... I always gage the sales of those around me and a few of the vendors that SHARE their sales #"s. There is a jeweler from Florida that seems to get juried into a number of the same shows I do and our #"s are always within a few hundred of each other and a glass artist that is also within a few dollars at most shows. Where I disagree with Ed is  x's booth fees.
> What are we calling booth fees? What the promoter charges for the space? Or what it cost us for the space in order to sell your product? I've always calculated my booth "cost" as total cost, hotel,travel expense,promoter cost,jury cost and yes even food, and I better dam well cover that 5 times or look for a new show.



We can't quite get it to 5 times, we manage about 4.7 or so, and this has been consistent through 3 years now, but we are breaking away from the Tennessee Craft Artist Association, I'm getting to the point the long trips take a lot, with the tools we are doing much better percentage wise at symposiums and demonstrations. 



ed4copies said:


> OKLAHOMAN said:
> 
> 
> > Damn hate to agree with Ed once again:wink: but sigh...... I always gage the sales of those around me and a few of the vendors that SHARE their sales #"s. There is a jeweler from Florida that seems to get juried into a number of the same shows I do and our #"s are always within a few hundred of each other and a glass artist that is also within a few dollars at most shows. Where I disagree with Ed is  x's booth fees.
> ...



I'm looking forward to a day when I don't HAVE to but can still do a show for fun, and that is what this last show of the year is about, it's close to home, it a nice venue but it's still  gift show.  OH well, I gotta change my ways....or else I'll teach ""Animefan""some bad habits!!


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## ed4copies (Nov 24, 2010)

That is the "death spiral". We watched over 30 shows from two promoters take that path.  All thirty are no longer even trying to exist.  CLOSED.

RE: Smitty's comments, Ken posted while I packed and typed--bad combination for getting either done.


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## hilltopper46 (Nov 24, 2010)

I just want to say my hat is off with a deep bow to those of you who do this on anything close to a full time basis. If I name names, I'll miss someone obvious but Chasper, Oklahoman, Bitshird, Jeff Powell and PenMan1 come to mind. Ed, I know you were previously into this as well, with another full time business as well. I'm sure I have forgotten someone obvious.

I just got a VERY SMALL taste of this a couple weekends ago when I had two pretty good shows back-to-back on Saturday and Sunday and sold down on those items that for me are quite dependable.  So now, for only one additional show and some custom orders that seem to keep cropping up from out of the woodwork, I find myself in the shop every night and instead of a hobby it's beginning to feel like a second job.

For those of you who do this every weekend, and more, time after time after time, and then go home to make up the gaps in your inventory, you have earned my undying respect. The fact that you come by IAP and offer your invaluable advice and put up at all with us part-timers has earned my heartfelt gratitude and respect.


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## Chasper (Nov 25, 2010)

hilltopper46 said:


> I just want to say my hat is off with a deep bow to those of you who do this on anything close to a full time basis. If I name names, I'll miss someone obvious but Chasper, Oklahoman, Bitshird, Jeff Powell and PenMan1 come to mind. Ed, I know you were previously into this as well, with another full time business as well. I'm sure I have forgotten someone obvious.
> 
> I just got a VERY SMALL taste of this a couple weekends ago when I had two pretty good shows back-to-back on Saturday and Sunday and sold down on those items that for me are quite dependable.  So now, for only one additional show and some custom orders that seem to keep cropping up from out of the woodwork, I find myself in the shop every night and instead of a hobby it's beginning to feel like a second job.
> 
> For those of you who do this every weekend, and more, time after time after time, and then go home to make up the gaps in your inventory, you have earned my undying respect. The fact that you come by IAP and offer your invaluable advice and put up at all with us part-timers has earned my heartfelt gratitude and respect.



Its Thanksgiving morning a little before 5:00 am and I'm about ready to leave to take my wife to the airport to fly to North Carolina and set up a show.  She left the vehicle with equipment and pens in it when she flew home on Monday.  I've been working until midnight to fill in the gaps in inventory since she called with an inventory update last Saturday night.  Thats what it takes, but then nearly everybody works hard at whatever they are doing.  Thanks Tony


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## PenMan1 (Nov 25, 2010)

Gerry:
I am up, too! Planning around the holiday to get my stuff done. Special orders have been very good for us and we've sold good stock items as well.

Unfortunately, my crystal ball needs new batteries. All of my special orders must be made from materials that we don't have in stock. We carry a huge inventory of parts trying to keep this from happening, but something always happens.

Additionally, a major corporate account that I have been working all year, has finally "pulled the trigger" and is making a huge order of their product (peanuts and peanut butter) that each must be hand glued and cast.

This happened the day after I just got a big "show" order and the day before another large corporation wants prototypes made from their products (cedar).

Not complaining, I'm glad to have the business! But it all seems to come at once- feast or famine.


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## Constant Laubscher (Nov 25, 2010)

Sales are pretty good but I do not do shows - no time available.

I am in my shop right now working on orders and stuff that needs to be done to keep things running smoothly, as some of you know I make and process everything in my shop and try not to be dependent on other people for most of the time. 


Will be back home in time for the Turkey!


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## OKLAHOMAN (Nov 25, 2010)

Gerry,and Andy we're all in the same boat except this week-end, but had a call last night from a Customer that wants two pens made and shipped out Friday, so out to the shop today after turkey then we leave on Tuesday to Arizona for a 3 day show, drive 1500 miles, arrive and then spend 3-4 hours setting up in the dark as this show is downtown and we set up after the police dept. blocks the streets off.....oh well we decided that this is what we wanted and we do meet some very nice people, travel,eat at some nice restaurants, and make a few dollars to boot. 
Yes Tony it is a job! But enjoyable....


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## PenMan1 (Nov 25, 2010)

I'm the most demanding sob I've ever had to work for! The shows and travel schedules can be brutal. Trying to rebuild inventory after a show or series of shows can sometimes demand 12-14 hour days, back to back. The pay isn't always good and is never a "sure thing". Despite the best planning, things can sometimes go very wrong and sometimes it seems like when one thing goes wrong it creates a snowball effect. Lots of hard work.

AND, despite all the perils and pitfalls, I can't think of anything I'd rather do!


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## Chasper (Nov 25, 2010)

You should meet the sob that I work for.



PenMan1 said:


> I'm the most demanding sob I've ever had to work for! The shows and travel schedules can be brutal. Trying to rebuild inventory after a show or series of shows can sometimes demand 12-14 hour days, back to back. The pay isn't always good and is never a "sure thing". Despite the best planning, things can sometimes go very wrong and sometimes it seems like when one thing goes wrong it creates a snowball effect. Lots of hard work.
> 
> AND, despite all the perils and pitfalls, I can't think of anything I'd rather do!


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## ed4copies (Nov 25, 2010)

HEY both you guys!!!   You know it's Thanksgiving so you "are entitled" to TRIPLE time, today!!!

The jerk I work for should be reported, I don't even make minimum wage from 3PM to midnight, yesterday!!!  NO health insurance either!!!

Ah, yes, the COST of being FREE to do what we want to!!!!!

Happy Thanksgiving--------get back to WORK!!!


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## OKLAHOMAN (Nov 25, 2010)

I'm sure that the bast#@^$:devil: I work for had slaves at one time.


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## ed4copies (Nov 25, 2010)

OKLAHOMAN said:


> I'm sure that the bast#@^$:devil: I work for had slaves at one time.



He still does, look in the mirror!!

(Know this from personal experience!)


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