# Dyes



## ysottot (May 1, 2005)

Iâ€™m experimenting with dye and used â€œWoodburstâ€ pure color wood stain on a piece of wood. I think the wood is Maple and has birds eye, is light in color and somewhat soft.
It came in a grab bag from my local Wood Craft store. The dye doesnâ€™t seem to take like some of the pictures Iâ€™ve seen.. The grain has taken color but the whole think looks generally muddy.
Any tips or how to's on staining?

Thanks
Steve


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## Ron in Drums PA (May 1, 2005)

What type of dye did you use?

http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/htdocs/TransTint.htm


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## ysottot (May 1, 2005)

Maybe I'm using the wrong stuff.
This is their site.
http://www.woodburst.com/index.html

Steve


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## Ron in Drums PA (May 1, 2005)

I've used that stuff also, I guess it was 10+ years ago for some toys I made my kids. It held up very well and the colors hardly faded, if at all. But I was always a little disappointed in the colors, just not bright enough for kids if you know what I mean. The transtint dyes is more vibrant. Just don't sand though the color and you should be all right. BTW, the colors are more fade resistant is you use water instead of alcohol.


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## Queso (May 1, 2005)

Teh website above says that liquid TransTint dyes can be mixed with lacquer on the finishing step.  Has anyone tried to do that yet?


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## Old Griz (May 2, 2005)

I bought this up in another thread not all that long ago... 
Satins are made from powdered pigments that float in a medium and need to be mixed before use... these pigments fill the open pores of the wood.  Depending on the type of wood used it can have a "muddy" effect.
Dyes on the other hand are usually more translucent and are absorbed into the wood fibers giving a brighter look.
Depending on what you sanded the blank to before staining/dying it will alter the amount of stain/dye that fills the pores or is absorbed into the wood fibers.
Most flatworkers do not sand above 220 before staining/dying the project.  Sanding above that especially to 400-600 or more like we do will close the pores of the wood and lessen the amount that can be absorbed or filled leaving the excess on the surface... With stains this can definately cause the muddy effect you are seeing as the pigment will dry on the surface instead of in the pores where you want it.
Hightly figures woods like BE or Curly Maple will generally not take a stain well as they are tight grained.. however they will take a dye well.. the dyes will generally be absorbed at different levels in the figure and surrounding wood making the figure stand out a lot more... especially if you buff the wood with 000000 steel wool cloth after the dye is dryed.
Those of you who are using the Prismacolor markers are essentially using NGR dyes since the markers are alcohol based dye markers.  They work great and dry quickly.  But do have a tendency to run under a CA finish.. try a light spray of lacquer as a sealer before going to the CA finish, it helps.. 
Tinting lacquer with a dye is called toning... it gives a nice translucent surface color to the finish that is not in the wood... it is used a lot for matching the lighter sapwood to the heartwood on cherry and walnut.  I see no reason that you would not get a nice finish on a pen with it, other than the fact that the color will not be as deep or vibrant as if it were applied to the wood itself. 
The information on dye and stain difference I got from a very good book on wood finishing and from Fine Woodworking Magazine... the other stuff is just what I have learned from experience (MISTAKES) and is what I do.. it does not mean the only way to do it.. just what I do... 
Dying and staining can make pale woods really shine into something fantastic or just make them colored pale woods.. it is up to you to experiment and try different things... one thing I have found is that dyes work a whole lot better than stains for brilliant colors like we are looking for...

This set was dyed with Chestnut Red Dye and buffed with 000000 steel wool.. the wood is big leaf maple burl... Picture is pre-better picture taking.. sorry.. You can see how the dye took differently on the harder wood of the figure...


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## jdavis (May 2, 2005)

Very nice Griz


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## jdavis (May 2, 2005)

Very nice Griz


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## Ron in Drums PA (May 2, 2005)

Good Info Tom

I just would like to add one thing about Prismacolor Pens. The colors will fade in a few years as will all alcohol dyes. 





This little 3" maple bowl was an experiment I did about 4 months ago. 
The inside is colored with black india ink. The outside was dyed with green transtint dyes mixed in water. The top was sanded back to bare wood for contrast. Sanded to 2000 then lacquered. 

The excellant book you mentioned is by Jeff Jewitt.  http://www.taunton.com/store/pages/070712.asp


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## ysottot (May 2, 2005)

Thnaks to all for the information. This is a great site.
I will experiment and see what I get.

Thanks

steve


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## 53Jim (May 2, 2005)

I went to Ben Franklin to get some dye/ink/coloring stuff for some pens.   What I came home with was drawing ink.   Design Higgins Waterproof drawing ink in Turquoise (#4175) and Design Higgins Fadeproof Artists Color drawing ink in Violet (#44675)



<br />

<u>I apologize for the quality of the scan.</u>  

So far they are holding their color very well.   The only prolem is the Turquoise looks green instead of Turquoise.   I finished the pens with C/A.

I may have used too much ink, cuz the grain doesn't POP out like I thought it would, but what the heck - I a rookie.

Jim


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## Old Griz (May 3, 2005)

Jim, I tried the ink once also and found it blocked the grain... try cutting it a bit. I believe most of those inks are acrylic based so water should be the appropriate thinner... as for the turquoise looking green if the bland had a yellow cast that would do it...


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## jdavis (May 3, 2005)

If you will thin the dye a little, the grain will show better.


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