# Cambridge KIt???



## jttheclockman (Oct 25, 2010)

Have a few Cambridge kit questions because I am thinking of getting a few of these high end kits. In the instructions on all sites and even the dealers including Exotics sells the 33/64" bit for the top. All the reviews I have read say that bit is too small and a 17/32 is needed. Does anyone who has made these have an opinion and if it is true where can I get this bit???

Second is there a way to either eliminate that black plastic center ring or make a new one to match the pen blank??  Has anyone done this and if so how did you do so??  It looks like that is what holds the center ring parts to the tube. Any opinions on this ???

Would love to see some photos as examples if possible. Thanks and have a great day.


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## DurocShark (Oct 25, 2010)

The metric is 13.3. I bought one from Arizona Silhouette and love it for both the Cambridges and the El Grandes. 

http://www.arizonasilhouetteinc.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=593


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## johncrane (Oct 25, 2010)

13.3m is also for Churchill, and after drilling there's enough room for glue.


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## bad (Oct 25, 2010)

I've used the 33/64 bit with no problems.


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## PenMan1 (Oct 25, 2010)

Ditto on the 13.3mm.

This is how I hide the ring.


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## snyiper (Oct 25, 2010)

http://www.mcmaster.com/#metalworking-drill-bits/=9fg89s


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## jttheclockman (Oct 25, 2010)

PenMan1 said:


> Ditto on the 13.3mm.
> 
> This is how I hide the ring.


 

That looks great. Can you explain how you did it please???


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## PenMan1 (Oct 25, 2010)

Measure the OD of the black plastic ring. Drill a small cut off of the blank that size (seems like it was aroung 33/64). Again, using calipers, cut down a 3/4 inch maple dowel (oak dowel doesn't work as well, too uneven) until the drilled (grain matched) blank segment snugly fits onto the dowel. Put tape on either side of the blank segment to hold it in place and secure the dowel in a jacobs chuck or beall collet chuck on the lathe. Turn the ring to the same dimension as the upper barrel right at the top of the center band. Part off the ring at the correct width for your application. Attach the (mighty thin) ring over the black plastic ring, match the grain (critical for wood) then secure with 5 minute epoxy if necessary. The plastic ring has a good bit of flex, so if you drill the hole exactly ( I drill a little smaller and final dimension with a dremel sander), the epoxy should not be necessary.

This is not quick or easy, but IMHO, the trim ring gives back what this hidious black ring steals from this wonderful component set.

I'm sure there are other ways to do this. This is just "my way"

Respectfully submitted.


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## jttheclockman (Oct 25, 2010)

PenMan1 said:


> Measure the OD of the black plastic ring. Drill a small cut off of the blank that size (seems like it was aroung 33/64). Again, using calipers, cut down a 3/4 inch maple dowel (oak dowel doesn't work as well, too uneven) until the drilled (grain matched) blank segment snugly fits onto the dowel. Put tape on either side of the blank segment to hold it in place and secure the dowel in a jacobs chuck or beall collet chuck on the lathe. Turn the ring to the same dimension as the upper barrel right at the top of the center band. Part off the ring at the correct width for your application. Attach the (mighty thin) ring over the black plastic ring, match the grain (critical for wood) then secure with 5 minute epoxy if necessary. The plastic ring has a good bit of flex, so if you drill the hole exactly ( I drill a little smaller and final dimension with a dremel sander), the epoxy should not be necessary.
> 
> This is not quick or easy, but IMHO, the trim ring gives back what this hidious black ring steals from this wonderful component set.
> 
> ...


 


If I am reading this right, basically what you did was use the black ring but put a veneer trim piece on top of it????  Maybe I need to order some kits to get a feel for what is needed. Now I have to find a good best price source


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## PenMan1 (Oct 25, 2010)

jttheclockman said:


> PenMan1 said:
> 
> 
> > Measure the OD of the black plastic ring. Drill a small cut off of the blank that size (seems like it was aroung 33/64). Again, using calipers, cut down a 3/4 inch maple dowel (oak dowel doesn't work as well, too uneven) until the drilled (grain matched) blank segment snugly fits onto the dowel. Put tape on either side of the blank segment to hold it in place and secure the dowel in a jacobs chuck or beall collet chuck on the lathe. Turn the ring to the same dimension as the upper barrel right at the top of the center band. Part off the ring at the correct width for your application. Attach the (mighty thin) ring over the black plastic ring, match the grain (critical for wood) then secure with 5 minute epoxy if necessary. The plastic ring has a good bit of flex, so if you drill the hole exactly ( I drill a little smaller and final dimension with a dremel sander), the epoxy should not be necessary.
> ...


 
That's it in a nutshell! Much easier said than done, though. The final thickness of the ring is about .002 to .004. Be very carefull, especially with sanding.

As far the price. My experience has been (I buy a bucket load of these) is that they are within $.50 from one vendor to another. For me, it has come down to the vendor with the best and least expensive shipping. 

If you find these kits (in FP) for less than $32 in quantities of 20, I would be interested (in a PM). All the vendors who I have bought them from charge $34 for one, or $34 for 20, so I buy them in small quantities from the vendor with two day shipping.


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## zig613 (Oct 25, 2010)

William-Wood-Write in Canada has them on sale until Saturday October 30th.  Here is the infor...

Canadiana pen kits - 25+ price!


Fountain pen kits, all platings - $29.95, regular price $35.95 each.
Rollerball pen kits, all platings - $27.95, regular price $33.95 each.

http://www.penblanks.ca/home.php?cat=141

Wade


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## devowoodworking (Oct 25, 2010)

zig613 said:


> William-Wood-Write in Canada has them on sale until Saturday October 30th.  Here is the infor...
> 
> Canadiana pen kits - 25+ price!
> 
> ...



I need to place an order with Bill soon...if anyone Stateside would like some, send me a pm with amounts...shipping would be $10, no matter how many


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## ed4copies (Oct 25, 2010)

John and all others!!

Unfortunately, right now Exotics is "parroting back" the information that we have gotten from Berea--we have not yet had time to write our own instructions (YES, I WILL) nor evaluate their recommendations for drilling.

We have 44 pen types (mostly plating changes) that each require their own prices, discounts etc.  On top of this, I was advised that my first effort (over 40 hours work) needed revision, so another 30 hours have been spent on this project.

While I clearly AM complaining---the real purpose is to let you know that we WILL be adjusting the recommended bits (I have used the 13.3mm and agree it is a nice fit) and then we will buy wholesale and have them available.

I do apologize for the delay in the "frills and extras".  This project has gone much more slowly than I had hoped.  But, we WILL Git-r-dun --- hopefully soon!!

Thanks to all for your patience!!


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## jttheclockman (Oct 26, 2010)

OK

I have looked at a couple sites and I see the hybrids Cambridge kits which I am interested in state that the platings in use are Titananium gold and sterling silver. In the Woodcraft site  they list the platings as "Woodcraft gold" and sterling silver. My question is there a difference and what is it???  Has anyone used their kits and is this the same kit???  Thanks


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## PenMan1 (Oct 26, 2010)

The Woodcraft set is the same as everyone else's. In fact they were the $.50 less ($.01 less on rollerball) that I mentioned in the earlier post. In my case, Woodcraft is in reality the MOST EXPENSIVE in my area because I must pay 7% sales tax and thier minimum shipping us also more than I usually pay.


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## jttheclockman (Oct 26, 2010)

PenMan1 said:


> The Woodcraft set is the same as everyone else's. In fact they were the $.50 less ($.01 less on rollerball) that I mentioned in the earlier post. In my case, Woodcraft is in reality the MOST EXPENSIVE in my area because I must pay 7% sales tax and thier minimum shipping us also more than I usually pay.


 

They also have quantity discounts that noone else has so makes cheaper yet. With free shipping also make me want to try them.


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## ed4copies (Oct 26, 2010)

Wood Craft has the pens made by Berea, yes.

HOWEVER, if they SAY Woodcraft gold, it probably IS Woodcraft gold (Berea upgrade gold).  Why would they NOT mention TiGold???

Do what you wish, but don't read their ads then change their copy to comply with what you WISH it said.

FWIW


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## jttheclockman (Oct 26, 2010)

ed4copies said:


> Wood Craft has the pens made by Berea, yes.
> 
> HOWEVER, if they SAY Woodcraft gold, it probably IS Woodcraft gold (Berea upgrade gold). Why would they NOT mention TiGold???
> 
> ...


 

I called them and talked with a tech and his words were that it is titanium gold plated. He gave a hardness rating and mentioned these are the same kits. He does not know why that is not mentioned and why they call it woodcraft gold. This is the reason I asked the question if anyone has used them and have you run into any problems???  The price is basically the same as everyone else so there is not much difference there. If it were a lesser quality it should reflect in the price. 

By the way they have a 20% off sale till the end of the month on certain kits. A Cambridge kit is one of them but the lesser kit.


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## DurocShark (Oct 26, 2010)

I talked to them too. There are several Woodcraft kits listed as "Woodcraft Gold" that are actually TiN. And several that are just 10k with the clearcoat. 

Nothing like vendors muddying up the water, huh?


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## jttheclockman (Oct 26, 2010)

DurocShark said:


> I talked to them too. There are several Woodcraft kits listed as "Woodcraft Gold" that are actually TiN. And several that are just 10k with the clearcoat.
> 
> Nothing like vendors muddying up the water, huh?


 

Yes and there is no need for that. Call it what it is. I guess I will see with time because I just placed an order. Sometimes you have to find out on your own. 

All this different plating stuff drives one coocoo. Just like all these copper kits. It is copper with a clear coat. That wears off and there goes a beautiful looking kit. Copper is such a cool color on a kit. Oh well.


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## ed4copies (Oct 26, 2010)

IF anyone has Cambridge kits from Woodcraft, will you PM me, please with the code number.

Thanks--it's long but it will answer a question for me.
Much appreciated.


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## jttheclockman (Oct 26, 2010)

ed4copies said:


> IF anyone has Cambridge kits from Woodcraft, will you PM me, please with the code number.
> 
> Thanks--it's long but it will answer a question for me.
> Much appreciated.


 
What code # Ed?? It is on their web site.


http://www.woodcraft.com/Family/2020402/Cambridge-Deluxe-Pen-Kit.aspx


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## ed4copies (Oct 26, 2010)

The bag with the kit in it has a label.  Sometimes that label has letters in it---those are the letters I am looking for.

When advertising and an employee say different things, I like to research and learn the CORRECT answer.  Since advertising claims are covered by law...they usually prove more accurate. I have always found it is best not to take a position until I have confirmed one way or the other.


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## ctubbs (Oct 26, 2010)

ed4copies said:


> The bag with the kit in it has a label.  Sometimes that label has letters in it---those are the letters I am looking for.
> 
> When advertising and an employee say different things, I like to research and learn the CORRECT answer.  Since advertising claims are covered by law...they usually prove more accurate. I have always found it is best not to take a position until I have confirmed one way or the other.



Ed, you are one smart man.  I wish I had your restraint!:wink:


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## ed4copies (Oct 26, 2010)

ctubbs said:


> ed4copies said:
> 
> 
> > The bag with the kit in it has a label.  Sometimes that label has letters in it---those are the letters I am looking for.
> ...



thanks!!

Grandpa, who was about my present age when he died, always said, "Too soon old, too late schmardt!"  

Maybe I'll get a few more "schmardt" years than he did.


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## jttheclockman (Oct 26, 2010)

ctubbs said:


> ed4copies said:
> 
> 
> > The bag with the kit in it has a label. Sometimes that label has letters in it---those are the letters I am looking for.
> ...


 


ed4copies said:


> ctubbs said:
> 
> 
> > ed4copies said:
> ...


 



Hey listen before this takes a turn that I see it is, that is not my intention. Boy I tell you how things get misinterpreted. 

We all know Ed sells kits such as these and that is fine. I asked a question and you see the replies I got. Not many so I have to make my my own conclusions. I am going on what was told me and that is all I can do. If you have a way to disprove these are not what was claimed that will be great ED we all can learn. 

If anyone still has used the woodcraft Cambridge kit I would like to hear your opinions still


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## jttheclockman (Oct 31, 2010)

I still see no one has come forward and said they used the Woodcraft Cambridge kits. I sure would like to hear from some people. My question is in the plating. Is it the same as the other Cambridge kits out there from Berea. Who makes Berea kits????


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## ed4copies (Oct 31, 2010)

Berea kits are made in Taiwan FOR Berea.  Jim (who owns Berea-I've known him to be the owner since about 1995) has a "partner" in Taiwan who runs manufacturing lines for Jim.  I consider some of our conversations confidential, but I can say Jim's commitment to creating consistent quality kits is the reason I chose Berea for the kits we are selling on Exotics.

As to the gold, I now know the answer, but some prefer to ignore facts.  I can't be bothered with those who question my knowledge or veracity.  I have made a reputation selling HONESTLY and making statements ONLY when I know the correct answer.  So, if you prefer to accept others' answers---enjoy!!

Cambridge pens sold by Woodcraft have WCG in their product code WCG=Wood Craft Gold.


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## DCBluesman (Oct 31, 2010)

I visited my Woodcraft yesterday and Ed is exactly correct. Their Cambridge (and several other higher end components) is labeled WCG. Now I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing...or maybe it's purple...but it's not gold titanium. I haven't experimented with WCG because I have had such good success with gold titanium.


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## DurocShark (Oct 31, 2010)

Nicely done Ed! 

Now I know what to look for regardless of what the guy there tells me!


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## ctubbs (Oct 31, 2010)

Thank you Ed, for your knowledge and effort.
Charles


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## jttheclockman (Oct 31, 2010)

In case anyone else is interested, I found this in their catalog. Without being a metalurgist(sp) I don't know the difference. I guess I will keep the kits and give them a try and see how the customers take to them. 

Woodcraft catalog page 140 (I can't seem to put a link to it) Sorry 

Thanks for the info.


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## ed4copies (Oct 31, 2010)

Wood Craft defines "Woodcraft Gold" as follows:

"A high-tech titanium gold plating process, which has a Rockwell hardness of approximately 85, provides an extremely hard, durable base for our heavy 24kt gold plating."

This allows you to read whichever half appeals to you.
JT could be correct---it could be TiGold and Wood Craft just chooses to call it something different.

So, John is NOT incorrect in his statement that it has titanium---AND I am correct in my statement it IS Woodcraft Gold, which woodcraft states is 24 kt.--as I understand 24kt, it has to be PURE gold.

Pick the definition you like.


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## ldb2000 (Oct 31, 2010)

I don't know if the woodcraft kits are just an upgrade gold or true Ti gold so why not just buy them from Berea who sells them as "Titanium Gold" to be sure of what you are getting . 
As for price Woodcraft even with a 20% discount and free shipping is still about $15 more expensive then Berea shipped for an order of 25 pieces .


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## jttheclockman (Oct 31, 2010)

Here is what Berea says and is posted on Bill's site at AZ. Everyone can make their own choice I guess. I just asked a question and di not want to start any sales wars. I am satisfied for now. Thanks everyone once again. 

*Berea Hardwoods Pen Kits Are Different
*by Mr. Jim Heusinger, President, Berea Hardwoods, Inc.
The Berea Hardwoods pen kits are not the same as the "discount' kits, generic kits or kits for people on a budget.  All of these terms are very often used as a nice way of saying poorly made and/or inferior kits.  Berea Hardwoods makes every attempt to offer kits that are well engineered, designed and plated.

"It would be very easy for us to cheapen the kits and sell them at a lower price.  There are many ways to do this such as using a cheap tumbler 24k "epoxy" coated plating or to use less durable twist mechanisms or to put less ink in our refills or use cheap center rings, clips, etc.

*Superior Plating*

When we use 24k plating we use an upgraded 24k gold "rack" plating where each part in individually plated on a 'plating tree'.  We offer a wide range of superior platings such as titanium gold, black titanium, real platinum, heavy sterling silver and chrome.​


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## jttheclockman (Oct 31, 2010)

ldb2000 said:


> I don't know if the woodcraft kits are just an upgrade gold or true Ti gold so why not just buy them from Berea who sells them as "Titanium Gold" to be sure of what you are getting .
> As for price Woodcraft even with a 20% discount and free shipping is still about $15 more expensive then Berea shipped for an order of 25 pieces .


 

Butch where could I have gotten those from??  Would be interested for next time. Thanks.


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## ldb2000 (Oct 31, 2010)

Direct from Berea , www.bereahardwoods.com .


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## jttheclockman (Oct 31, 2010)

ldb2000 said:


> Direct from Berea , www.bereahardwoods.com .


 

Might be a misunderstanding Butch. I was interested in the Hybrids. No discount for quantity that I see. 


http://www.bereahardwoods.com/pen-kit/sets/Cambridge_Hybrid_Rollerball_Tit_Gold_Ster_Silver.html


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## ldb2000 (Oct 31, 2010)

Ok , I didn't see the "hybrid" in your OP so I was figuring reg Cambridge kits . Sorry for the misunderstanding .


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## Smitty37 (Nov 1, 2010)

*True enough*



ed4copies said:


> Wood Craft defines "Woodcraft Gold" as follows:
> 
> "A high-tech titanium gold plating process, which has a Rockwell hardness of approximately 85, provides an extremely hard, durable base for our heavy 24kt gold plating."
> 
> ...


Could also be taken to claim that it is 24kt gold over TI gold....which is the way I read it.


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## Smitty37 (Nov 1, 2010)

*Not adverse to a little hype themselves*



jttheclockman said:


> Here is what Berea says and is posted on Bill's site at AZ. Everyone can make their own choice I guess. I just asked a question and di not want to start any sales wars. I am satisfied for now. Thanks everyone once again.
> 
> *Berea Hardwoods Pen Kits Are Different*
> by Mr. Jim Heusinger, President, Berea Hardwoods, Inc.
> ...


Which does nothing for the wear properties of 24kt gold and in what way are real platinum and heavy sterling silver superior? 
Superior to what...  I am in no way running down Berea's products, I know nothing about them at all.  But, at least in one respect they are like all other companies - there is some hype in their advertising.


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## Kaspar (Nov 1, 2010)

You can also get Berea kits from Bill Baumbeck at Arizona Silhouette in case this hasn't been mentioned already.  

My understanding of the Berea Gold Ti may be inaccurate (and I welcome correction on the matter) but is as follows:

Gold Titanium, Yellow Ti etc. is titanium plating that has been chemically oxidized to a gold-ish color.  It may or may not contain actual gold.  The Berea Gold Titanium is both yellowed ti and a good deal of actual gold imparting a much closer match in the color of gold and the durability of titanium.  The superior quality of the Berea REAL Gold Ti is very obvious to me, especially when comparing it to CS-USA's Gold Ti junior gent.  (I love CS-USA kits best of all, but that gold ti is just sickly looking.  I mention this in the hope that CS-USA might try to get that excellent REAL gold Ti into that kit.  :wink

Re: Berea kits in general, though I have some problems with the aesthetics of some of them, I do not doubt their quality nor do I doubt that a lot of deliberation went into them.


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## Smitty37 (Nov 1, 2010)

*TN*



Kaspar said:


> You can also get Berea kits from Bill Baumbeck at Arizona Silhouette in case this hasn't been mentioned already.
> 
> My understanding of the Berea Gold Ti may be inaccurate (and I welcome correction on the matter) but is as follows:
> 
> ...


 
The plating Titanium Gold  or TN Gold is mostly Titanium Nitride which is a ceramic..it is gold in color whether or not there is any actual gold present.  It is not created by oxidation [from Wikipedia--The most common methods of TiN thin film creation are physical vapor deposition (PVD, usually sputter deposition, cathodic arc deposition or electron beam heating) and chemical vapor deposition (CVD). In both methods, pure titanium is sublimated and reacted with nitrogen in a high-energy, vacuum environment. ].  Some manufacturers add a small amount of gold to the alloy. 

 Perhaps TN can also be used as a base coat with gold being applied over it the gold would wear but wear would be less noticable because the gold color base....but I don't know if that is possible.


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## jttheclockman (Nov 1, 2010)

Well I guess you can just about read anything you want into anyone of the manufactorers plating claims. My question started out with the drill bit size in question and then graduated into the plating on woodcraft hybrid canbridge kits. I asked if there were users out there and if any one seen any problems or differences and since no one has I chose to keep the kits and will field test them for myself. If they are of the same quality then why should I pay a higher price for a name??  I am just like everyone on this forum looking for a better price on a quality product. I am all for buying from members but that just goes so far. There are lots of examples in the past and will continue to be in the future.


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## MesquiteMan (Nov 1, 2010)

Why don't someone call Berea and ask them what Woodcraft Gold is, if they will say.  They import and sell to Berea so they would know.  They may not be able or willing to say, though.


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## ed4copies (Nov 1, 2010)

MesquiteMan said:


> Why don't someone call Berea and ask them what Woodcraft Gold is, if they will say.  They import and sell to Berea so they would know.  They may not be able or willing to say, though.



Curtis, as you know, in industry, unlike some think the IAP should be, there ARE trade secrets.

I believe you just found one.
But feel free to call them.


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## DurocShark (Nov 1, 2010)

The gold Ti on my Cambridge Ultra from Arizona Silhouette is what I made my latest gold nugget pen from. It's a darn near perfect match with the gold leaf in the resin, however they did the plating. 

My only complaint with the Cambridge (and the El Grande) is how loose the coupler is in the cap tube. Every single one I've made has needed a dab of loctite to keep it from spinning.


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## jttheclockman (Nov 1, 2010)

DurocShark said:


> The gold Ti on my Cambridge Ultra from Arizona Silhouette is what I made my latest gold nugget pen from. It's a darn near perfect match with the gold leaf in the resin, however they did the plating.
> 
> My only complaint with the Cambridge (and the El Grande) is how loose the coupler is in the cap tube. Every single one I've made has needed a dab of loctite to keep it from spinning.


 

Don, that is good info that I was looking for. I will look out for this. Are there any other parts of this kit that need attention??  There seems to be an awful lot of parts to this kit as I look at the package.


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## DurocShark (Nov 2, 2010)

Not that I've seen. Just the press fit parts, particularly the coupler.


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## dexter0606 (Nov 2, 2010)

> My only complaint with the Cambridge (and the El Grande) is how loose the coupler is in the cap tube. Every single one I've made has needed a dab of loctite to keep it from spinning.


 
I have only used the Berea kits and to this day have never had an issue with the center band coupler being loose. And I've made a fairly large number of this style, including Churchills and Canadiana's.


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## Smitty37 (Nov 6, 2010)

*dead in the middle*



jttheclockman said:


> Well I guess you can just about read anything you want into anyone of the manufactorers plating claims. My question started out with the drill bit size in question and then graduated into the plating on woodcraft hybrid canbridge kits. I asked if there were users out there and if any one seen any problems or differences and since no one has I chose to keep the kits and will field test them for myself. If they are of the same quality then why should I pay a higher price for a name?? I am just like everyone on this forum looking for a better price on a quality product. I am all for buying from members but that just goes so far. There are lots of examples in the past and will continue to be in the future.


 Regarding your original question when converted to decimal inches 13.3mm is just about dead half way between 33/64 and 17/32.


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