# Does buffing last?



## Tiger (Jul 9, 2012)

I'm wondering whether buffing pens provides as durable a finish as MM with a CA finish? Buffing involves waxes and my experience with those is that they will dull after a while whereas if you finish with MM there should be no dulling effect.

Also after reading a number of posts there seems to be some variation as to how far to sand before buffing, some say 600, others say 1500 before applying Tripoli, White Diamond and sometimes Carnauba. My experience suggests that 600 grit may not be enough and I found that the Tripoli did not remove some of the scratches caused by the 600 grit, it was only when I sanded further with 1000 grit that I got a smoother (albeit still with some scratches as seen under a magnifying glass) surface.


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## KenV (Jul 9, 2012)

The answer is maybe --

Get a grit table from the library and make sure that you are working the scratch patterns towards fine.

My final buff is with a 1 micron micro-gloss that is kept carefully free of contamination from other grits.

Many buffing/honing compounds are a mix of grit sizes, so you need to use care in selection and application.


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## jd99 (Jul 9, 2012)

I buff after I sand to 320, wet sand 400 through 2,500, then mm (wet) through to 12,000, then buff with tripoli (I think its tripoli it's a bar I've had for years to buff clear acrylic)


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## The Penguin (Jul 9, 2012)

jd99 said:


> I buff after I sand to 320, wet sand 400 through 2,500, then mm (wet) through to 12,000, then buff with tripoli (I think its tripoli it's a bar I've had for years to buff clear acrylic)


a bar of tripoli is tan colored, I think. 

the bar that came with the "acrylic pen buffing kit" I bought was blue.

back to the original question...

buffing is a method of removing scratches to leave a smooth finish. CA is a finish - you're comparing apples to elephants.


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## NewLondon88 (Jul 9, 2012)

It might be easier to understand when you consider that the buffing
compounds are a continuation of your sanding. Tripoli or white diamond
are abrasives, just like your sandpaper.. only instead of putting the grit
on paper, it is in a bar. Plastic polishes are the same thing, only the grit
is suspended in a liquid. (although some 'polish' manufacturers have 
confused the issue by selling products that use oils, waxes or silicone to
temporarily fill in scratches so you don't see them.)

So 'buffing' itself doesn't provide any finish at all. However, if you have
applied a finish, buffing will bring up the shine of that finish.

You're right that wax is temporary if handled. If you applied wax, buffed
the wax and then didn't touch it, the finish would look good forever if
stored appropriately. But.. that's not what we do! :tongue:

But as for buffing itself?  It is merely a continuation of finer sanding.


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## jd99 (Jul 9, 2012)

The Penguin said:


> jd99 said:
> 
> 
> > I buff after I sand to 320, wet sand 400 through 2,500, then mm (wet) through to 12,000, then buff with tripoli (I think its tripoli it's a bar I've had for years to buff clear acrylic)
> ...


 Then it is tripoli the bar is whitish-tan, I didn't get it with any kit i bought it at the plastic's supplier I use when I made a bunch of parts out of clear acrylic years ago, all I know is it works great, and I have enough to last my life time of making pens....:wink:

Oh and in my orignal post, after i sand to 320, I apply CA, then do the other sanding and bufing.


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## triw51 (Jul 9, 2012)

I sand to 600 dry, then wet sand 400 through 1500, then MM to 12,000, then do a white dimond buff and finish with canuba wax.
Can some one tell me which is finer White diamond compound or tripoli compound?


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## jd99 (Jul 9, 2012)

triw51 said:


> I sand to 600 dry, then wet sand 400 through 1500, then MM to 12,000, then do a white dimond buff and finish with canuba wax.
> Can some one tell me which is finer White diamond compound or tripoli compound?


I often wondered that. I found this:
"White diamond compound 
A buffing compound made of tin oxide and a binding wax that polishes fast and provides a moderately high shine. It isn't made of real diamond dust. It is often categorized as a type of Tripoli. This is also different than white rouge. White Diamond Compound is used on brass, copper, aluminum, bronze, nickel, silver, gold and softer metals. May also be used on plastics. This compound will cut and gloss in one operation. This compound is water based. Finer than Tripoli, coarser than rouge. There are two classifications of white diamond, XXX White Diamond which is a superior dry compound for cut on gold, silver, brass, copper and plastics and XXXX White Diamond which has finer abrasives for better color, less cut and scratch. This polish is an excellent choice for use on ivory and bone where you don't want your material picking up the "green tint" common with most aluminum oxides. Use with yellow buffs."

On this site:
[Ganoksin] Jewelry Making - Notes about Buffing and Polishing Materials

Now I'm not sure what I have is tripoli, as the bar is more white then tan, and it's not bright white, but that could be because of the age, not sure. All I know is it works great on CA, Acrylic, PR, Trustone, and Corian. and it will take a peice of clear acrylic that has just been orbital sanded with 400 grit paper to perfectly clear with no scratches.


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## nativewooder (Jul 9, 2012)

White Diamond is finer than Tripoli.


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## Tiger (Jul 9, 2012)

Thanks guys for your input, I'd like to know whether replacing MM with your typical buffing setup eg Beall will give just good a result as it's certainly quicker and less messier. I recall reading posts where users swear by their buffing system and have relinquished the MM

In terms of coarseness, Tripoli is coarser than White Diamond.


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## Jjartwood (Jul 9, 2012)

Try liquid emory and a soft cloth,if the finish is sealed, if you want a hard wax finish
that will hold up better but still not forever,spit shine the pens surface( yes like military boots) with a quality paste floor wax and cover with an acrylic liquid shine agent like
Future floor finish I have used the former on sealed surfaces ( painted surface )
and the later Well.... much more than I care to recall!
just a shot in the dark,


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## Wright (Jul 9, 2012)

I personally like MM better. For me I get better results with MM. All my sanding with PR is wet. I start at 320 thru 600 wet paper then go thru all MM, hit it with Novus 2 then Huts plastic polish and my results are great.


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## mredburn (Jul 9, 2012)

My tripoli is greyor tan in color  my white diamond is grey to white it is several years old. Tripoli was used for fast metal removal and the first level of polishing followed by white  diamond and the a rouge. 
In repairs white diamond or several products that were finer than white diamond and coarser than rouge are used. Zam, and Fabuluster were a couple of brands.  Color is not a good indication of what your using. Different manufacturers use different colors for different materials. I have used red blue green and black rouge's all claiming to be better for different kinds of polishing.


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## Texatdurango (Jul 9, 2012)

Tiger said:


> Thanks guys for your input, I'd like to know whether replacing MM with your typical buffing setup eg Beall will give just good a result as it's certainly quicker and less messier. *I recall reading posts where users swear by their buffing system and have relinquished the MM*
> 
> In terms of coarseness, Tripoli is coarser than White Diamond.



*The way I see it, those reading this thread should go back and read Newlondon88's post again then after a few minutes, read it again and let it soak in, then the next day read it again!*

On this (and probably other forums) there are three basic camps of folks;

1. There are those who swear that going up through all the micro mesh grits gives the ultimate shine.

2.There are those (like myself) who don't use micro mesh on pens at all and just sand to a certain point (myself it's 1,000 or 2,000 grit) then buff for that ultimate shine.

3. Then there are those who (in my opinion) are lost in what they are doing and try a hodge podge or combination of just about everything they have read about.  Sanding up through all the micro mesh grits, then buffing, then applying Brasso or some sort of automobile polish/cleaner/sealer with God only knows what all it contains then buff with a carnuba wax loaded buff then top it off with some brass cleaner then top it off with a dozen COATS of ren wax or the latest Whiz bang miracle polish displayed at the end of the isle at Walmart!.

I think there have been so many FORMULAS and PROCESSES using different SYSTEMS that many are getting confused about one simple fact........  If you start out with a course grit then finish with the finest grit you can find, including the compounds, pastes and liquids, you will have a nice finish.

Another thing, Don't get hung up on names and colors of compounds, just understand what grit they are.  Tripoli, White diamond, red rough, Plasti-Glow, etc are just names of different compounds and companies making these compounds will differ as to the size of grit particles much like the difference between Nortons 800 grit paper and the 800 grit paper you will find at Harbor Freight!


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## thewishman (Jul 9, 2012)

Thank you, George!


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## Tiger (Jul 10, 2012)

I've tried buffing and I get a reasonable shine but not as shiny as the MM. In either case to get a deeper shine I apply some Brasso followed by Swirl Remover. I will assume that Brasso has a smaller micron size than the 12000 MM and the Swirl Remover even smaller than Brasso, I've been trying to quantify this but various grit comparisons only cover sandpaper, MM and other straight abrasives.


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