# glue quandry



## woodman95 (Jun 2, 2006)

Hi all,

I'm making some fountain pens, you know the ones with the stepped tubes from PSI.  On most types of pens I make, I usually use Gorilla Glue because of the gap filling properties it has.  I love it and would recommend it highly.

However on my first fountain pen (the one from PSI with the stepped tubes), the glue's expansion pushed the stepped tubes out of the one of the ends of the blank as it dried.  I caught it after a short period and pushed it back in, and taped it tightly with masking tape.  Still a small bit of the tube ended up pushed out about maybe 1/32".  But with a little sanding and lots of praying,  the pen worked out fine.

Is there another type of glue I can use which has gap filling ability but which won't push out the tubes?

What glue would you suggest to use with these stepped tubes in fountain pens?

Thanks for your advice.


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## gerryr (Jun 2, 2006)

I used to use Gorilla Glue until I had that happen on 2-3 blanks and I unfortunately didn't see it until the next day when it was too late.  I now use 15 minute epoxy for all the tube gluing.  It doesn't expand, but you can put it on the tubes pretty thick.  I have yet to have one come unglued.


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## Jerryconn (Jun 2, 2006)

There is a new glue out (I cannot find the name right now) that is a poly glue but it doesn't foam near as bad as GG


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## Dario (Jun 2, 2006)

Jerry,

Are you talking about the Sumo Glue?  I will try that next [][]


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## Paco (Jun 2, 2006)

I use the 15 minute epoxy as well.  It's easy to use and covers great.


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## alamocdc (Jun 2, 2006)

I use 5 minute epoxy on all of my tubes. I didn't like the mess from poly glues.


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## mick (Jun 2, 2006)

Ditto what Billy said...I used Gorilla Glue on all my wooden blanks, until I got tired of the mess. Now I use 5 minute epoxy on my wooden blanks....great minds, huh Billy? []


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## woodman95 (Jun 2, 2006)

Thank you for your suggestions.  It looks like epoxy is the winner so that's what I'll use.

The only thing I was worried about with it, was the lack of the epoxy expanding some to fill any gaps.  But I guess if I use it liberally enough I'll be ok.

Thanks again.


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## bonefish (Jun 2, 2006)

Probably the strongest is J-B Weld, the one that takes 24 ours to cure. The problem is, most glues won't stick to the brass tubes very well.

The Gorilla Glue will, if you want to put up with the mess, and the J-B Weld mentioned above will adhere. Most others won't.

A few years ago, I used CA and five minute epoxy, and had several tubes come out after the pen was completed. Most of these were the slim lines, and the tube came loose when I twisted the cap to expose the writing tip, or pulled the cap off to put in a refill.

About this time, I had several different types of epoxy laying around, and I smeared different epoxies on different brass tubes.

After it dried, I tried scraping it off. The J-B Weld was the only one that held good. The others held somewhat, but peeled off easily. 

Somewhat wasn't good enough, and I use the J-B Weld. Another good one, if you can find it, is the Devcon White, with an overnight cure.

Some glues are only good enough to hold something in place until you can get a nail in it. That's what I discovered when I used the clear epoxies.

I have also used Brownell's Acru Glass, and it works, but no better than the J-B weld, and not as good if you get the item hot.  

Bonefish


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## low_48 (Jun 2, 2006)

I also use 5 minute epoxy but slip the tubes on a mandrel and clean and rough them up with 60 grit before gluing. That gives the epoxy plenty of surface and roughness to grip on.


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## Jerryconn (Jun 3, 2006)

Dario,
That may be it, I think I saw it in a Woodcraft email but I can't find it (they say the mind is the 2nd thing to go []). But they side by side picts of the glues after foaming and this new stuff has virtually none even squeezing out much less running all over everything.


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## Max (Jun 3, 2006)

Bonefish, where do you get J-B weld?
-Max


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## bonefish (Jun 3, 2006)

Most auto parts stores have it, and I have found it in ACE hardware stores, and a few times in Lowes and Home Depot, and I have found it at Wally World. It is not as common as the other brand name epoxies.

J-B makes two types that I know of. One is the fast drying type, which I have never tried, and the other is the overnight drying type.

I used to make knives, using slab handles (scales) glued to the sides of the full tang.

Sometimes, I would have to take them off. I would clamp the blade in a vise and hammer a wood chisel between the knife tang and the


 scale. There were many times that the wood split and the glue joints held to the splintered wood and the steel knife tang. Even with a chisel, it was difficult to scrape the glue and splintered wood off the metal, and I would end up having to grind it off.

In my previous post, I mentioned heat. I doubt that anyone will use a pen fast enough for it to get hot. If you do, you could carry two pens and let one cool while you used the other. (Insert smiley face here, but I don't know how.)

When I would grind the scales to fit the knife tang, I would grind all the way to the steel, sometimes a little bit too agressively and the metal would get hot. The J-B weld and the Devcon were the only two that wouldn't turn loose when the metal got hot. Of course, they would turn loose after you reached a certain point, but by then it would be too hot to hold and I could drop it into a bucket of water before the glue turned loose. No such luck with the fast setting epoxy. It would turn loose if the wood and/or tang got just a little warm. CA wasn't any better, or even as good.

I am not talking from just recent experience. I made knives for about 25 years, and used any number of glues.

Still, I didn't trust the glue to hold by itself. I would put rivets through the handle, just in case. The glue was used primarily to hold the scales in place while I located and drilled the holes for the rivets.

Excuse me for being so long winded, but I thought sharing some of what I learned over the 25 years of grinding metal and using glue might be beneficial to others on this site.

Bonefish


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## Max (Jun 3, 2006)

definitely helpful!!  Thanks so much.

Max


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## Dario (Jun 3, 2006)

I have to agree, JB Weld is probably one of the bets out there.  They use that to glue steel blocks together!!! [:0]

That said, it may be over kill for pens and the color (gray) if I am not mistaken will have to be considered when gluing transparent/translucent materials.

I am a proponent of poly glue just because of it's filling property.  If Sumo glue expands less as advertised then I surely will stick with that.

If and when I need something quick, I use a 30 minute epoxy.  The 15 minute ones just cure so fast for me.  Maybe it has to do with the Texas heat, etc.  I cannot finish gluing 3 pen sets without it setting on me! [B)]

Note that most glue failure is NOT because of the glue being weak...it is because of incomplete coverage and contact between the parts being glued together.


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## rfreeouf (Jun 3, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Dario_
> Note that most glue failure is NOT because of the glue being weak...it is because of incomplete coverage and contact between the parts being glued together.



Dario,

I totally agree. I sand my brass tubes first and then apply glue over the entiretubes. I also use a smal dowell to smear glue around the inside of the hole in the pen blank. I then insert the brass tubes and let them dry. I haven't had trouble with tubes coming lose after switching to this process.


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## KenV (Jun 3, 2006)

Steve Knight, a wood plane builder in the Portland Oregon area (http://www.knight-toolworks.com/) has advised that he cannot get any epoxy or glues to stick to brass under heavy repeated stresses.  Luckily pen tubes do not generally get those stresses.  Some suggest that roughing the tubes to increase mechanical adhesion is a waste of time, but I still do it.  

I use JB Weld for the heavy duty epoxy work where brazing or welding is not practical.  

I have also found that clamps or strong rubber bands are a necessary protection from movement with PE glues.  Have not use SUMO glue yet -- look forward to finding it


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## Blind_Squirrel (Jun 3, 2006)

Do you GG and epoxy users plug your tubes to keep the excess out?  If so, what material(s) do you use for the plugs?


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## Dario (Jun 3, 2006)

I've used beeswax but seems like clean up is also difficult.  I've read some use sliced potato then they punch the strip with the tube, plugging the ends in the process.  I haven't tried it personally.  Most of the time I just apply oil inside the tube using Q-tip and it helps ease the clean up a lot.


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## mick (Jun 3, 2006)

When  using Gorilla glue or any glue for that matter I always plug both ends of my tubes with base wax that I get from AS. it's cheap and fairly easy to clean up!


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## Pipes (Jun 3, 2006)

I been using thick CA on my pens and never had a blank fail or problem with it yet because of GLUE !! BUT I have only made about 100 pens so Iam a newbie at this ! BUT If I was concerned about staying power I would use 30 Minute epoxy like we use on Golf clubs sets up in 30 min and in 1 HR you can go play golf with the club ....Now if it a hold up to a golf club on a course in 1 HR it a dang sure hold a pen blank and stay put IMHO[] But I use Gorilla glue on my pipe tampers ONLY because it takes the buffing heat better than CA when I buff the brass out ! If it wasn't for that I would use CA ...I like thick CA because I can cut and glue and be turning a pen in less than 5 min Gorilla Glue IMHO is a PITA for pens  remember just IMO now please don't throw fruit [:I]






http://affordablepipes.com/


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## bonefish (Jun 4, 2006)

Max:

Most auto parts stores carry it, and some Wall Mart stores. Home Depot and Lowes, and Hardward stores.

It is not a popular as other brands, and some of the above named stores don't have it all the time.

Bonefish


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## RussFairfield (Jun 4, 2006)

Everyone uses a different glue and for different reasons. They will all do the job, but we use what works for us. 

I started with CA and filled the end with a piece of potato. Someone told me that epoxy was better, so I used that for a couple years. I discovered that there was less cracking on woods like Ebony if I drilled the hole a bit oversized and filled the gap with a foaming Polyurthane Glue. That was followed by a couple years when I used it for everything. I never had a problem with loose tubes or tubes falling out with any of them. 

I am back to using a medium CA glue in a tight hole, and not plugging the ends. I have few problems with glue in the tubes that a rifle or shotgun bore brush in the drill can't clean out. I always wondered about the CA glue joint until one got stuck half-way into the wood. I tried to drive it out with a hammer, and squashed the tube without breaking the glue loose; and that is strong enough for any pen that I make. 

I still use the Poly Glue for woods that are likely to split. I don't know that it solves the problem, but it makes me feel better. I like the Titebond because it doesn't foam as much as Gorilla, and it will cure in less time without wetting the wood surface. It lasts longer in the opened bottle, and it half the price of Gorilla.


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## bjackman (Jun 4, 2006)

I like the cheap white poly clay to plug the tubes. For me the baseplate wax ended up as more work to remove the wax residue from the inside of the tubes than the glue. Btw, I glue with both Poly glue (elmers) and epoxy.


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## arioux (Jun 4, 2006)

Hi,

Probably a lot of you know it but just for remembering, when using poly glue, just rap a rubberband around the blank, covering the tubes and they wont come out anymore.


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