# Finishing question



## jyreene (Jun 8, 2009)

Okay, so I am slowly coming to the conclusion that I suck at a CA finish.  I'll keep working on it but damn I can't get more than a half penny sized area to take the finish (keep the finish).  That aside, lacquer.  I have a can of melamine (sp?) lacquer and it has no instructions on it.  I remember reading that Lou Metcalf does a lacquer dip because he gets a consistent finish that way.  Is that the kind of lacquer I have?  What does it involve?  Because I envision an assload of hangers with pens precariously perched on them while dripping lacquer on a floor.


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## NewLondon88 (Jun 8, 2009)

jyreene said:


> I envision an assload of hangers with pens precariously perched on them while dripping lacquer on a floor.



.. you say this like it's a bad thing.. :tongue:

I'm not familiar with melamine lacquer, but I use the Deft or Minwax clear
gloss. I put the blank on a long eye bolt with a washer/nut on the end to
keep the blank there. After you dip you can shake most of the extra lacquer
off, but I still put some newspaper under it when I hang it from the shelf.

Worst thing about lacquer for me is that I have to do it just before I leave,
since the fumes aren't so good for you. And I can't do anything that will
generate dust while it is drying, so that means I can only do it last thing
before I go home. That's one coat per day.


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## GouletPens (Jun 8, 2009)

NewLondon88 said:


> .. you say this like it's a bad thing.. :tongue:
> 
> I'm not familiar with melamine lacquer, but I use the Deft or Minwax clear
> gloss. I put the blank on a long eye bolt with a washer/nut on the end to
> ...


 You could overcome that by building a small box to house the blanks after dipping....granted the smell is still not good for you, but at least the blanks would be protected from dust. At least if they're in a container free from dust you could open the shop doors and blast the fans to get the smell out of there!


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## aggromere (Jun 8, 2009)

It took me a few attempts before I got the hang of the ca finish.  Search the forums for William O Young.  He has  a video on Utube about it.  I watched that a few times and haven't had a problem since.  Occassionally I put on a coat that has a few ridges in it.  If I do I just sand that coat with 1500 micro mesh till it is smooth them go back to the ca.

I have tried all kinds of finishes and that the CA is about the best for wood.

Before I begin the CA finish I often clean the blank on the lathe with acetone.  I let it dry and then start with a coat of BLO, then immediately begin the CA.  I apply it by putting a drop of BLO on my papertowel, then  a spot of CA on the BLO and then slowly apply it to the spinning pen until it starts to get hard to turn then begin applying more and more pressure till it becomes shinny again.


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## GouletPens (Jun 8, 2009)

Everyone has an opinion about how to apply a CA finish, but the honest truth is that it acts differently in different areas of the country b/c it's affected by moisture, humidity, age of the glue, type of wood, moisture level in the wood, the direction of the wind blowing, the alignment of the stars, which elected party is in power, and what you ate for breakfast! That being said, once you find a method that works for you, it is a reliable, consistent finish and that's why more than half of pen turners use CA religiously, far more than any other finish. Usually, it takes trying over and over again, giving up on CA, trying something else, eventually coming back to CA, and repeating at least 3 or 4 times before finally finding what works for you. I went through this myself until I finially found what works for me. Now I can consistently put on a CA finish from sanding the wood to polishing to a glassy sheen in about 10 minutes. I'm very happy with that and there's basically not much better I can do than that.


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## wdcav1952 (Jun 8, 2009)

Charlie, 

If you have an old apartment sized refrigerator or something similar, you can rig a very low watt light bulb inside of it and put your fresh lacquer in it.  The bulb will make for a warm environment that will help in the curing of the lacquer.


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## GouletPens (Jun 9, 2009)

wdcav1952 said:


> Charlie,
> 
> If you have an old apartment sized refrigerator or something similar, you can rig a very low watt light bulb inside of it and put your fresh lacquer in it. The bulb will make for a warm environment that will help in the curing of the lacquer.


 If you go through the work to make the fridge setup, you can double it as a way of 'home kiln drying' your wood too. Just make sure you put holes in the top!


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## jfrantz (Jun 9, 2009)

aggromere said:


> It took me a few attempts before I got the hang of the ca finish. Search the forums for William O Young. He has a video on Utube about it. I watched that a few times and haven't had a problem since. Occassionally I put on a coat that has a few ridges in it. If I do I just sand that coat with 1500 micro mesh till it is smooth them go back to the ca.
> 
> I have tried all kinds of finishes and that the CA is about the best for wood.
> 
> Before I begin the CA finish I often clean the blank on the lathe with acetone. I let it dry and then start with a coat of BLO, then immediately begin the CA. I apply it by putting a drop of BLO on my papertowel, then a spot of CA on the BLO and then slowly apply it to the spinning pen until it starts to get hard to turn then begin applying more and more pressure till it becomes shinny again.


How fast are you turning and how many coats.
Thanks,
Stem


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## John M (Jun 10, 2009)

when i do it, it is shiny, then gets dull, then sort of gets shiney again, but ends up ripping the towel.  I do not use blo but is that what keep the paper towel or shop towel from sticking to the blank?


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## jkeithrussell (Jun 11, 2009)

John M said:


> when i do it, it is shiny, then gets dull, then sort of gets shiney again, but ends up ripping the towel. I do not use blo but is that what keep the paper towel or shop towel from sticking to the blank?


 
Depends on the method you are using.  The towel is sticking to the blank because you are rubbing it while it is curing.  2 possible fixes:  (1) do not use BLO and either wait for the CA to cure before you wipe the blank or use accelerator to get it cured before you wipe the blank, or (2) use BLO to wipe down the blank while the CA is curing.  

Also, the type of paper towel matters.  For me, the shop towels are too coarse and they seem to have some sort of oily substance in them that makes the CA not want to cure.  The only paper towels that have worked consistently for me are plain white Viva -- even then, the kind that are cut in half-sheets work best for me.  If this sounds crazy, set out a blue shop towel and a plain white Viva towel, add 2 drops of medium CA in a puddle on each, and see which one cures first.  Where I live, the CA on the shop towel stays wet for 10 minutes -- the Viva is dry and hard in 25 seconds.  

As others have said, experiment with all of the variables until you find something that works for you.


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## Rollerbob (Jun 11, 2009)

I agree with Keith on the blue shop towels. They do not seem to be user friendly when using CA. However, I do use them when applying friction polish. I know the BLO/CA finishing has been visited probably more than some care to know. But, for me, when I apply CA, I do use the BLO throughout the finishing process. My experience, even though short, using the BLO/ Ca throughout the process does stop the white paper towel from hanging up. It just takes a very small amount of BLO and it may just be me, but paper towel hang up is cut to a minimum. This being said, if your blank is turning to slow or you are not rubbing the blank rapidly, you will get paper towel hang ups. And yes weather condition and wood properties will effect CA finishes. But that's where experience kicks in! As a side note; I think sometimes we have a tendancy to try to overwork the CA, it begans to set and we feel we must get busier trying to get it to lay on the blank, thus causing towel stickage and frustration. So we sand and try again. But after all this ain't rocket surgery, so if CA is what butters your blank, then keep at it. Sorry, we were talking lacquer finish weren't we?:redface:


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## george (Jun 11, 2009)

You might take a look on this link; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rv1WoQtwVVE
it is by PSI how to make a stamp-pen.
It is interesting how they apply thin CA. I have tried it today and after 7 or layers the surface was very smooth and shiny ; I did not even had to sand with anything, just buff.

I know there is a difference between wood and stamp surface, so I have tried it on wood - after 2 layers the surface was great ... so smooth, that I went to medium CA with no previous sanding.

Keep up trying with CA ... a year ago I needed an hour from first layer to final sanding, now I need like 20 minutes. And I know some guys (and girls of course) are even faster.


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## jyreene (Jun 11, 2009)

Yes, but this will be good when the frustration levels go down and I"m willing to try CA again.  So...back to Lacquer, can anyone give me a down and dirty on the process with pens and what I will need to get it done?


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## JimB (Jun 11, 2009)

I use wax paper rather than paper towel to apply the CA/BLO. The wax paper never sticks to the blank.


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