# Building a seperate Building for a shop



## Fish30114 (May 26, 2015)

My wife and I are contemplating  moving to Fla, and it seems as if I will need to build a separate building from the home we purchase for a shop--I'll be missing the basement down there for sure,

So question to you construction knowledgeable folks, How big would you recommend, I plan to have. 2 lathes, a Powermatic 3520 and a Nova DVR XP, a bandsaw, a table saw, two belt sanders (a 1x42 and a 2x72) a floor model drill press, and a few power tools to be named. I currently have 7 6'x 32" deep tables, accommodating most of my stuff--plus another set of cabinets with a top on them that is 8"x24" deep.

I am wondering if I bought one of the prefab sheds from Home Depot or whomever, put it on a slab I had poured and ran the appropriate electrical, and perhaps installed a window type unit for HVAC need, would that be a solid option to pursue.

I am willing to budget a reasonable amount to the shop--just looking for ideas. 
Any feedback/info appreciated.


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## jttheclockman (May 26, 2015)

That is a question only you can answer. If it were me i would build it as big as I possibly could. Forget the prefab sheds. you can't get the head room needed. Pay attention to local codes. Hurricane restrictions and all. Money will probably be your telltale sign. Build accordingly and build with changeability in mind. Build with access such as larger doors. Build with comfort in mind. There are many sites that offer ideas such as the WOOD magazine site. Google is your friend. Plan ahead. Good luck.


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## maxwell_smart007 (May 26, 2015)

There's a very applicable adage: Buy once, cry once. 

If you do it right the first time, it can save you money and frustration in the end...and be safer in the process!  

I'd price out contracting a real, honest-to-goodness shop, if I were in that position.


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## chartle (May 26, 2015)

I've never seen a prefab from HD that would be big enough for a shop.

Maybe start with a single car garage and work from there. That way when you call around for pricing it's kind of a standard size for comparison.


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## Edgar (May 26, 2015)

My personal advice is to build the largest shop you can possibly afford.

25 years ago, I had a 30x50 building built next to our house and haven't regretted it for a second. A couple of years ago I had a 20x50 shed added to the side of it. 

As someone else mentioned - be sure to pay attention to hurricane specs in Florida. I live in the county, so I didn't have any permit issues, but I did make sure it was built to hurricane specs & so far it's been through 2 direct hits with no problems.


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## jeff (May 26, 2015)

I don't know how you could fit all that into less than 20 x 30! :biggrin:

Make some scale templates of a comfortable work envelope around each machine and arrange them on some graph paper until you arrive at a good layout. 

Do you do flatwork? I didn't see a jointer and planer on your list. You might want a nice lumber rack too.

Does Florida permit pole buildings? Those are pretty economical and make a good shop. I built a 24 x 30 pole building at a former house and it worked very well for a multipurpose shop.


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## tjseagrove (May 26, 2015)

Measure your current shop and make that the baseline.


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## Dalecamino (May 26, 2015)

When I was looking to build a shop in North Port, Fl. I checked with the city about this very subject. They told me I needed to have plans drafted by a certified draftsman (3 copies) Draftsman was $145.00 an hour. There is site prep involved including, pest control etc. Knowing there are sheds for sale almost everywhere, I looked into them. Found one 12x14 with Hurricane straps and, a good latch on the 60" door. It wasn't big enough. They do have bigger sizes to select from. They will bring it set it up level and, come out to tighten the straps for free. At least mine did. I believe I paid around $2800.00 for mine but, 4 years ago. BTW, the wall studs had steel straps on them too. http://www.penturners.org/forum/f30/woohoo-my-new-shop-here-75947/


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## knowltoh (May 26, 2015)

I had a 20x20 shop with 10' ceilings and an upstairs bonus room built a few years ago.  I wish it were twice the size!

Seriously consider the bonus room.  I wasn't sold on the idea, but my builder insisted.  So glad I have it.  Relatively cheap space!


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## bobleibo (May 26, 2015)

_Confucius say :_
_"When packing for a vacation, take out 1/2 of what you packed, you won't need it. "_
_"When building a shop, do a realistic estimate of what you think you will need and then double it._ "


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## Fish30114 (May 26, 2015)

Good feedback folks, using a graph paper to come up with a layout is a great thought. I knew I would get a lot of 'as big as you can' comments, but I was really looking for more practical input. I've seen prefab units at HD that were big enough to put a bathroom in and live in--including some with an upstairs bonus room. Having said that, it may well be worth looking into contracting a builder to build it to specifications.
Dalecamino, I followed the thread on your shop--but I forget-what are the dimensions?

Also, I am very interested in the HVAC part of the equation--Dale, what did you do re: HVAC?

Thanks for the input so far folks!


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## southernclay (May 26, 2015)

Hey Don,

Grizzly has a free shop layout tool on their site you may want to play with as well.

I think 5-10k sf should be almost enough : )

Hope it all goes smooth for you!


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## Fish30114 (May 26, 2015)

Heck Clay, I'm hoping I can afford a 5k sf house!  We will see!


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## jeff (May 26, 2015)

For HVAC I am completely sold on mini-split systems. I put a Fujitsu in this year for the second floor of my bungalow and I am amazed at the performance and the quiet.


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## stonepecker (May 26, 2015)

I also am considering a bigger shop.   First I have to buy the land......NO, First I have to check the local and county codes to make sure I am allowed to do what I want.  No, First I have to win the lotto.  No, First...........there are just to many firsts.

My personal opinion is you can never build to big.  Making sure that you are allowed that extra building is somewhere to start.  Right now, Looking over the area to find how/what/where I can do what I want to do.  Anything within 5 miles is being looked at.


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## JD Combs Sr (May 26, 2015)

I retired in 2009 and built a 20x32 hobby shop.  Maybe this shop tour(of sorts) will give you some idea of capacity versus size.

 Included in it from left of the entry back to right of the entry are:
Left is the South 20' wall, includes:
- 5' deep by 8+8' wide lumber storage, scroll saw(in front of 2nd 8') and dust collector(corner of S&W walls)
Turning right at West 32'  wall:
- the dust collector, 50gal predust collector drum, 10"bandsaw, 14"bandsaw, 12"mitersaw, Griz 1220 lathe and Jet1642(both perpendicular to the wall), router table, downdraft sanding/painting booth.
Turning right at the North 20' wall:
- 10' work bench(starts in corner), portable AC unit, tool box&stand, 3' pen work bench, photo booth in corner of N&E walls.
Turning right at the East 32' wall:
- shop computer station, storage cabinet, floor drill press, air compressor, Griz combo metal lathe/end mill, 50gal trash can, and the entry again.
Center of shop from South to North2' NS walkways both sides of following)
- (north of lumber storage) 3' walkway, Griz 10'tablesaw(W), 36"belt sander(E), TS outfeed(W), Woodcraft Osc.Sander(E), 12.5" planner(W), 8"Grinder&1"belt sander(E), 2-3' EW walkway, 29"x93" cabinet-makers bench(on slight diagonal to shop), 2-3' EW walkway, North wall as noted above.
A photographic tour can be seen on the "Lumber Jocks dot com" forum

Hope this is helpful.  The only problems I have run into at this size is handling 4'x8' sheet stock.  Most ot the time I have to pre-cut it with my 7" circular saw before being able to run it through the 10" table.


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## Ted iin Michigan (May 26, 2015)

Long description follows. Pick what you're interested in. Built and moved into my shop about 7 yrs ago. It's 24x32 with a 6' overhang on the front for a porch, which was a good decision (faces west). 2x4 walls w/R13. R30+ in the 9' ceiling. Elec svc is 240 run from the house to a sub panel. LOTS of circuits and outlets - at least 1 circuit on each wall. Separate circuits for OH lights. I put 3/4 t&g plywood on sleepers over the slab. Insulated between the sleepers. Nice, comfy, warm floor. No a/c. Heat is a propane fired 95% efficiency forced air furnace. 

I love this place. I know, it's bad to be emotionally attached, but it's a good space. 

Things I'd change or will change in the future: get rid of the overhead garage door and put in a set of wide French doors. That will make the place even more efficient - plus, I don't use the oh door. I have 1 floor outlet for the table saw. Think I'd like to make it 220 (and get a new saw!). Would also like to have made provision for in-floor ducting for dust collection. 

One thing that needs emphasis - put in LOTS of elec outlets. My brothers-in-law made fun of all the outlets I put in. I use all of them.

By the way, I'm thinking the size (for me) is about right. I do turning and case work. 2 lathes, table saw, jointer, band saw, planer, etc. The only time I have issues with size is when I'm doing a kitchen in the winter (not very often).


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## Smitty37 (May 26, 2015)

Probably about twice as big as the house will be big enough.  You will have to be very careful of city/county building codes or live far enough out in the country that they won't apply.  At one point I had a 24 X 24 shop and it was not big enough.  Right now I have about 800 square feet and it is crowded if trying to work with 4 x 8 plywood or rip longer than a maybe 9 foot board or chop longer than a 12 foot board.


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## vtgaryw (May 26, 2015)

Great topic, my wife and I will be building a new house and relocating to NC in a few years.  My current workshop is in 1/4 of the basement.  I also have a lot of stuff in the garage now.  I should have used 3/4 of the basement for the shop.

I've always liked Norm Abram's shop on New Yankee Workshop!  I definitely like the idea of having a nice set of double wide doors for moving materials in and projects out.  I won't miss trying to jockey large pieces of wood into a basement whose only entrance is through the kitchen!

-gary


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## Smitty37 (May 26, 2015)

vtgaryw said:


> Great topic, my wife and I will be building a new house and relocating to NC in a few years.  My current workshop is in 1/4 of the basement.  I also have a lot of stuff in the garage now.  I should have used 3/4 of the basement for the shop.
> 
> I've always liked Norm Abram's shop on New Yankee Workshop!  I definitely like the idea of having a nice set of double wide doors for moving materials in and projects out.  I won't miss trying to jockey large pieces of wood into a basement whose only entrance is through the kitchen!
> 
> -gary


I do have a double wide door into my basement which does make things much easier than going through the house.


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## avbill (May 26, 2015)

I went from a 8  x 11   room to 11 by 16  and i'm still needing room  BUT I can't afford it  The SF Bay Area is Pricey.  I'll need to dream for me.


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## Fish30114 (May 26, 2015)

JD and Ted, very valuable input--Thanks--and Jeff, what exactly is a split mini system--I thin I know but not sure, your Fujitsu stuff sounds like a great option.

Appreciate all the input so far folks.


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## MikeinSC (May 27, 2015)

I was looking at some buildings the other day. I saw one that caught my eye at either 16x32 or 16x40, I forget now.  It was pre owned with a sale price in the $11k range without electric, insulation, etc.   

For me, that size would be perfect until its outgrown for storing slabs and processing larger pieces.  

I'm trying to plan ahead for space I'll need.


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## JD Combs Sr (May 27, 2015)

Fish30114 said:


> JD and Ted, very valuable input--Thanks--and Jeff, what exactly is a split mini system--I thin I know but not sure, your Fujitsu stuff sounds like a great option.
> 
> Appreciate all the input so far folks.


Thanks but I should have added as another poster mentioned, like him I work alone so generally there is no more then 2-3 maybe 4 pieces of equipment running at the same time.  Typical scenario is the dust collector, the AC and table-saw OR a lathe OR the band-saw OR etc. etc.  If four units the 4th will be my PC.  Power input to the shop is from a 60 amp 220volt breaker at the house panel that feeds an eight breaker sub-panel in the shop.  Never have had a breaker trip.  As another poster suggested I have multiple outlets on each wall, one 20amp circuit per wall, a 220 circuit to the TS shared with the Jet1642, and a seperate 220 to the dust collector.  Lighting is two(one inside, one outside security) 20 amp circuits.  The inside lighting circuits power convenience style 110v outlets so there are No hardwired lights, all are plugin type shop lights or point of use task lights. The AC is an 8000BTU portable unit, heat is a small 1500 watt Patton milk barn heater(never seen it below 50 inside as long as outside says at 30 or higher, at 0 outside inside will drop to ~40 then I kick in another 1500 watt htr.  Walls are 2x4 stud with T111 outside, fully insulated with 1/4" white(saved painting) hardboard as the inside wallboard, no cieling(open joists) but insulated 2x6 roof rafters with 1-1/2 full length(sofit to ridge-vent) rafter ducts.  Only other utilites is a 6 twisted pair phone line, electrical and phone line are underground.

Entry way is a set of double 36" wide doors for a 6' opening when needed.  Incidentally the double doors started as two single hung steel doors bought on sale.  Knocked off the right side of one and the left of the other, butted them together with dog bone bolts(typically used on counter sections) cutting my cost by about half.  The entry way is in the EW at its south end and includes a loading ramp and an overhead porch/dormer-like canopy protecting the ramp and entryway .  There are 4 24"x36" thermal pane windows, one in the SW, two in the EW, and one in the NW.

Hope all of this gives you plenty food for thought(more likely indigestion but...  ).


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## jeff (May 27, 2015)

Fish30114 said:


> JD and Ted, very valuable input--Thanks--and Jeff, what exactly is a split mini system--I thin I know but not sure, your Fujitsu stuff sounds like a great option.
> 
> Appreciate all the input so far folks.



The compressor is outdoors and the air handler is inside. Just the refrigerant lines, some control wires, and the condensate drain run between them. Here is a white paper on their use in FL. You can get them cooling only or heat pump. I have the heat pump version.


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## TimS124 (May 27, 2015)

When you're moving your graph paper pieces around, make sure to include enough infeed/outfeed room around each tool!  If you work with full sheets of plywood, you'll want enough room in front and behind your table saw to shove those through safely...

Bandsaws can be on wheels and kept against a wall when not in use...roll forward if you need room for cutting a long piece, then roll it back.  Much harder to do that efficiently with a large table saw but it could be done if space was limited.

Good luck (and post pictures once you get it done so we can all be jealous).


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## Fish30114 (May 27, 2015)

Great input folks, I appreciate the link Jeff. JD, that's helpful additional info.

I appreciate all the help--keep it up!


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## ELA (May 28, 2015)

Also check for deed restrictions and covenants and zoning.


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## oneleggimp (May 28, 2015)

HOAs can have a bunch of stuff too.  Aesthetic requirements (must not detract from the appearance of the neighborhood etc),  size restrictions as to how big an outbuilding (i.e. anything that is not the "house"), noise restrictions.  A lot of petty stuff  These are the kind of folks that are telling people that they can't fly an American Flag in that "Sub".


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## Smitty37 (May 28, 2015)

If there is an HOA you will very likely *NOT* be able to build a building large enough to be a shop unless the lots are super large and allow things like multi-car detached garages or guest houses.  You can also run into differing building codes if you do construction off site, than if you build it on site, in our area building a shed we needed a building permit to build it on site but if we bought one already constructed and moved it to our lot we didn't need one.  You can also have different property tax ramifications depending on how you build the building.


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## raar25 (May 28, 2015)

1500 sq ft with a bathroom.  Anything more than that is just showing off ;-)


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## Smitty37 (May 28, 2015)

raar25 said:


> 1500 sq ft with a bathroom.  Anything more than that is just showing off ;-)


Would that be a full bath?  Would a half-bath be good enough?


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## mikedealer (May 28, 2015)

when i built my shed (12x12 was max for my area which is bullshit due to my large property size), i went on ebay and ordered some plans for $8 bucks.  it came with cad drawing, materials list (which i sent to home depot and got price and everything delivered), 3d pdf file to see finished shed..  It was well worth it, all walls were built on ground and bolted to slab, roof went on no problem..
some construction knowledge is required, i mostly winged it and it came out really well.  
most expensive part was concrete basically.

as said above few times.. larger the better, give yourself space to grow and work.


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## Fish30114 (May 28, 2015)

Raar, I like the way you think--don't know if I can afford the way you think--but I like it! I am a real estate developer, for 20+years, so I know the bumps concerning Zoning, covenants, HOA's and the like. Always better to ask them for forgiveness first, it won't always be forthcoming later 
I like the idea of having a set of plans going in, I am seriously considering going the 'hire a contractor' route. I want it to be independently heated and cooled(especially cooled) want to have a shop sink, a bathroom with shower, and a large pad outside the envelope of the shop for washing down various items. Depending on where we buy our home there, and the practicality of having it in Fla. I would like a standing seam metal roof. Long story short, I would not have objections to making it aesthetically pleasing, and would actually like it to compliment the home, not be an 'oh that thing' type building.

I have been reflecting on what flooring would be the best choice--how does finished (say acid-washed) concrete sound--with anti-fatigue mats in front of the appropriate machines. Or is there possibly a carpeting option I should consider--or perhaps a combo of both?

I feel the more brainstorming the better before I actually pull the trigger.


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## vtgaryw (May 28, 2015)

Smitty37 said:


> vtgaryw said:
> 
> 
> > Great topic, my wife and I will be building a new house and relocating to NC in a few years.  My current workshop is in 1/4 of the basement.  I also have a lot of stuff in the garage now.  I should have used 3/4 of the basement for the shop.
> ...



Not having an outside entrance to the basement workshop is a real bummer.
I built two canoes in the side opposite my workshop.  The first was 16' long, and we were able to maneuver it up and out.  The second was a racing boat, 18-1/2' long, and I had to take out a few cinder blocks around a window for that one.  People love the story that I build a canoe in my basement and couldn't get it out, but I knew there was a high probability I was going to have to remove some block.

-gary


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## Edgar (May 28, 2015)

My flooring is finished concrete & I have an anti-fatigue mat in front of almost every machine. They work well for me & the concrete is easy to sweep.


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## vtgaryw (May 28, 2015)

Smitty37 said:


> vtgaryw said:
> 
> 
> > Great topic, my wife and I will be building a new house and relocating to NC in a few years.  My current workshop is in 1/4 of the basement.  I also have a lot of stuff in the garage now.  I should have used 3/4 of the basement for the shop.
> ...



Not having an outside entrance to the basement workshop is a real bummer.
I built two canoes in the side opposite my workshop.  The first was 16' long, and we were able to maneuver it up and out.  The second was a racing boat, 18-1/2' long, and I had to take out a few cinder blocks around a window for that one.  People love the story that I build a canoe in my basement and couldn't get it out, but I knew there was a high probability I was going to have to remove some block.

-gary


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## Fish30114 (May 28, 2015)

Thanks for that real world feedback Ed!


Oh and I'm not planning on any canoes!


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## GaryMGg (May 30, 2015)

Standing on concrete all day sucks.
Floor mats help BUT floor mats on the plywood is even better :biggrin:
I highly suggest building off-grade and using 3/4" tongue and groove sturd-i-floor (or similar) plywood for your flooring.

Be sure to have your lot boring tested to make certain it'll handle the load.
Our ground is rock-solid (3000 PSI) but many areas of Florida are highly karst--nothing more than sinkholes waiting to open  :frown:

One more tip: go high. My shop has 11' walls with 3' tall transom windows starting at 8' up. It lets in lots of natural light without losing useful wall space.


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## SDB777 (May 30, 2015)

chartle said:


> *I've never seen a prefab from HD that would be big enough for a shop.*
> 
> Maybe start with a single car garage and work from there. That way when you call around for pricing it's kind of a standard size for comparison.


 

HD has 20x30 two-story 'garages/shops' here in central Arkansas...how big do you need?



I'd enclosure the entire property I have, if I could get a permit to do it.  No more mowing, plenty of storage room, and neighbors could go pound-sand!




Scott (bigger is better) B


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## Fish30114 (May 31, 2015)

SDB777, that size would probably be fine, it's a question of what all would have to be done to the HD 'shed' to make it code compliant, and also put in  a bathroom and HVAC. but that is the one I mentioned early on from HD as a two story one.

Good feedback on the floor system Gary, I appreciate it.

Thanks all--Don


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## 79spitfire (Jun 6, 2015)

SDB777 said:


> chartle said:
> 
> 
> > *I've never seen a prefab from HD that would be big enough for a shop.*
> ...



I like the way you think!
(Imagine the roof on 5 acres! )


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## shastastan (Jun 7, 2015)

I built one at our previous house.  I bought a 2-car garage kit from our local lumber store that included the materials and plans.  I had to hire the cement work out and also electrical and sheetrock.  I knew that the city bldg dept. would accept the plans because many have been built in the past.  The kit did not include sheet rock, or electrical.  I added a couple of extra windows.  The kit was $3400, but I had $9,000 into it by the time it was done.  I did it myself with another guy who  has a tractor with front-loader.  This was great to put up the trusses and lift the shingles up to the roof.  I would not have attempted to do it alone due to the weight of some of the materials.  I bought a framing nailer just for this project.  We put the shingles on by hand, but I would recommend a roofing nailer.  Rent one.   YMMV


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