# grizzly rant



## nwcatman (Jan 21, 2008)

grizzly has an internet sale on dewalt dw788 scroll saws, starts today. includes the saw, stand, and light, delivered for $469.95 plus $20 shipping. hell of a deal. HOWEVER.........they MAY be available in 6-8 weeks. i know..........lots of people see this as an acceptable business practice, get the backorders built up THEN order the units. means a guaranteed sale of X # of units. personally, i think if you advertise a product for sale then you should have the stuff in stock. if you do run out thats a diff. story. but to sell it KNOWING you don't have it in stock? something wrong w/this picture or is it just me. and no, the shipment didn't get held up in customs or the boat delayed. these people been playing this game way too long for me to buy that BS.


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## byounghusband (Jan 21, 2008)

If you want one of these REALLY badly, go to http://www.amazon.com/Factory-Recon...f=pd_bbs_3?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1200939252&sr=8-3 and get the reconditioned one for $399.
No stand and no light, but save $100.  
You could get a stand thrown in for $471.00 and it appears that it is free shipping.  You could find a light for a few $$ and be happy..... 
Since you would probably have to pay shipping from Grizzly, you could afford a really nice light locally....


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## Aderhammer (Jan 21, 2008)

Hey your still getting a good deal you just have to wait.  It's better than our local woodcraft where they get 4 units on sale and once their gone sales over.


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## nwcatman (Jan 21, 2008)

> _Originally posted by byounghusband_
> 
> If you want one of these REALLY badly, go to http://www.amazon.com/Factory-Recon...f=pd_bbs_3?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1200939252&sr=8-3 and get the reconditioned one for $399.
> No stand and no light, but save $100.
> ...


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## nwcatman (Jan 21, 2008)

> _Originally posted by byounghusband_
> 
> If you want one of these REALLY badly, go to http://www.amazon.com/Factory-Recon...f=pd_bbs_3?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1200939252&sr=8-3 and get the reconditioned one for $399.
> No stand and no light, but save $100.
> ...


why would i pay $471 for a used saw and no lite when i could pay $490 for a new one including stand and lite and shipping?


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## MesquiteMan (Jan 21, 2008)

Re-con does not necessarily mean used.  It may be one that someone bought, took home, and decided they did not want it.  It then goes back and be re-con.  I have bought a couple of Dewalt recon tools and if it was not for the small sticker, I would never have known that it was recon.


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## maxwell_smart007 (Jan 21, 2008)

[/quote]why would i pay $471 for a used saw and no lite when i could pay $490 for a new one including stand and lite and shipping?
[/quote]

Well, you didn't like the idea of buying one that's not in stock, so that's the next best solution...

I think the reason that you're able to get such a good deal at Grizzly is because they don't have them in stock yet...they can bring in just as many as they need to cover the orders, and not have to worry about ending up with pallets of unsold tools...

As far as acceptable business practices - if you don't like their policies, you have the ability to shop wherever you like!  But be willing to pay more!  

Andrew


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## wdcav1952 (Jan 21, 2008)

> _Originally posted by nwcatman_
> 
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> ...



Because you really didn't want to wait from what I read.


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## DozerMite (Jan 21, 2008)

One of those instances where you either save money and wait or pay more and get it now. Depends on how bad you want/need it.


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## Ron in Drums PA (Jan 21, 2008)

> _Originally posted by nwcatman_why would i pay $471 for a used saw and no lite when i could pay $490 for a new one including stand and lite and shipping?



Because you want it *NOW</u>*

Think of this as a group buy run by Grizzly, just take a deep breath and be patient


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## IPD_Mrs (Jan 21, 2008)

Hold off on the DW788.  The reason nobody has them is a new model is coming out.  When I say nobody, even places like Sears and Rockler are out.  Rockler has removed the DW788 page.  You also might get a good deal if you can find someone online that has it left over when the new stock comes in 6-8 weeks. 

Mike


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## ed4copies (Jan 21, 2008)

> _Originally posted by MLKWoodWorking_
> 
> Hold off on the DW788.  The reason nobody has them is a new model is coming out.  When I say nobody, even places like Sears and Rockler are out.  Rockler has removed the DW788 page.  You also might get a good deal if you can find someone online that has it left over when the new stock comes in 6-8 weeks.
> 
> Mike


<center>
Which would mean WAITING for 6-8 weeks.</center>

I think this is where I came in (as we used to say when movies just kept running, and you watched til your "entry point")


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## TowMater (Jan 21, 2008)

At least they are telling you up front there is a wait before shipping.....

I don't understand why this upsets you, either you want the deal and  you wait, or you go somewhere else and pay more to get it right now.

Now if they didn't tell you up front and you found out after your CC got billed that it was 6-8 weeks, I think you'd have a right to be plenty upset.

Todd


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## Rifleman1776 (Jan 21, 2008)

You said, " get the backorders built up THEN order the units. means a guaranteed sale of X # of units."
Do you know for a fact this is what they are doing? And, if, as YOU say it is an accepted business practice, what are you upset about?
The units may just be on a slow boat from China. Literally.
You have the freedom to buy elsewhere.


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## nwcatman (Jan 21, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Rifleman1776_
> 
> You said, " get the backorders built up THEN order the units. means a guaranteed sale of X # of units."
> Do you know for a fact this is what they are doing? And, if, as YOU say it is an accepted business practice, what are you upset about?
> ...


well, obviously i DON'T think its an accepted or acceptable business practice. thought i made that clear. sorry bout that. next time i will type v-e-r-y  s-l-o-w-l-y so you can get the point.


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## jeffj13 (Jan 22, 2008)

Your own post states  "lots of people see this as an acceptable business practice".  

Just because no one is giving you a shoulder to cry on, that's no reason to get testy.

jeff


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## Ron in Drums PA (Jan 22, 2008)

> _Originally posted by nwcatman_
> 
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We got the point, you are upset. Take a chill pill and relax.


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## jwoodwright (Jan 22, 2008)

John, you have it easy, you're in the Continental United States.  (Someone needs to explain that Alaska is part of the Continent, as is Canada)   
I want a Delta P-20 Model 40-680.  It's a belt drive and built like a tank.  You should have a look at the P-20.  As for speed changes, you rarely change once you get cutting.  
I know a little about scrolling.  For the past 4 years, I've been President of the Scrollers, part of the Alaska Creative Woodworkers Association.  

I've had my DeWalt 788 for 5 yrs or so.  I love it.  Then I was introduced to the P-20.  What a difference, like going from my 20 yr old single speed Craftsman to the DeWalt...
I can't get it through any of the local tool suppliers.  It's around $550.00 and weights in at 120 pounds for the saw.  Shipping for that weight is several hundred dollars and 10 - 12 weeks...  Barge and all...   

I'm off to have some crackers and cheese with my whine...


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## byounghusband (Jan 22, 2008)

> why would i pay $471 for a used saw and no lite when i could pay $490 for a new one including stand and lite and shipping?



Shheeesshhhh  John!!  Just trying to help a Brother out.  Take my advice for what it is, ADVICE.  

That and a dollar still won't buy you a cup of coffee..... 

Let me know is 8 weeks if you like your scroll saw...  I've been thinking about one of those as well.....  i'll be waiting patiently.


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## nwcatman (Jan 22, 2008)

> _Originally posted by jwoodwright_
> 
> John, you have it easy, you're in the Continental United States.  (Someone needs to explain that Alaska is part of the Continent, as is Canada)
> I want a Delta P-20 Model 40-680.  It's a belt drive and built like a tank.  You should have a look at the P-20.  As for speed changes, you rarely change once you get cutting.
> ...


so what makes it better than the dewalt? the weight? i know that would cut down on the vibration so......is that it or is there more that makes it better?


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## nwcatman (Jan 22, 2008)

> _Originally posted by byounghusband_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


ur right and didn't mean to bite ue head off. just that everyone everyone thinks that the wait is the problem and its not, its the business practice i object to. used to be in the retail firearms business a few years ago and had the same problem with some suppliers. someone would see an item written up in a magazine and had to have it so i would order it and sure enough, it hadn't even
hit the docks yet. i'd hear "so why are you trying to sell it to me"?  and i understood why they were upset.


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## Rifleman1776 (Jan 22, 2008)

nwcatman said, in part, " used to be in the retail firearms business a few years ago and had the same problem with some suppliers. someone would see an item written up in a magazine and had to have it so i would order it and sure enough, it hadn't even
hit the docks yet. i'd hear "so why are you trying to sell it to me"? and i understood why they were upset."

 Well, coincidence. I was too. Gun shop. Also have been in publishing business. Understand some from both ends. Gun production has problems not associated with other products. Mostly regulations, customs clearance, a real rats nest. Even accessories are not fully exempt from this bureaucratic tangle. And magazines have to plan many months ahead and advertising agencies, sometimes even further ahead. Sadly, gun enthusiasts do get excited over new products and suffer disappointment when items are not available. I tried to minimize those disappointments by calling my distributors and asking when the new items were expected before placing orders. They usually could give a pretty good date to expect delivery. Wasn't a perfect system but it helped. Bottom line, no one is at fault. In a world economy, such things are going to happen. 
BTW, have you taken that chill pill yet?
BTW #2: Does anyone know just how slow a slow boat from China really is?


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## byounghusband (Jan 22, 2008)

John,
I understand your frustration with Grizzly on this business practice, but I gotta look at that price for the saw, stand, and light and TANSTAAFL.  
The best I could find in stock was at Maxtools.com.  NEW Saw for 465.99, Stand for 69.99 and light for 32.99.  Free shipping.  Total of 568.97.  Just about $70.00 more.  Personally, I'd wait.  But that's just me.  
I do hope you work something out and get the scroll saw you want.  Once you do, talk to me, as I am starting to get into scrolling too.  Bummer is my new Delta is in the shop due to bad blade wobble.  Over 1/8" side to side.  Makes any fret work nearly IMPOSSIBLE!!!


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## nwcatman (Jan 22, 2008)

> _Originally posted by byounghusband_
> 
> John,
> I understand your frustration with Grizzly on this business practice, but I gotta look at that price for the saw, stand, and light and TANSTAAFL.
> ...


what model DELTA is it?


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## byounghusband (Jan 23, 2008)

I bought a Delta Shop Master 250. Model SS-250.  DON'T get one!!![xx(]  Parts are backordered and I have read reviews and regret buying it.....


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## jwoodwright (Jan 23, 2008)

John, the Delta P-20 is virtually vibration free and straight stack cuts every time.  For around $550.00 you get a machine that works better than a $1500.00 Hegner, or $1200.00 RBI Hawk.

Many DeWalt owners, that is why I bought mine, tried it and loved it.

Mr. Bill Young of B.C. has actually worn out scroll saws, he loves his P-20 and he has a woodworking site.  He has made many clocks, some very large fretwork, really impressive.

http://wmyoung.proboards107.com/index.cgi


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## nwcatman (Jan 24, 2008)

> _Originally posted by jwoodwright_
> 
> John, the Delta P-20 is virtually vibration free and straight stack cuts every time.  For around $550.00 you get a machine that works better than a $1500.00 Hegner, or $1200.00 RBI Hawk.
> 
> ...


thanks! i went to his site and joined. and thanks for the tip on the delta. thats probably what i will go with. soon. maybe.


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## jwoodwright (Jan 24, 2008)

John, did you check out some of his scrolled work?  His photos are great!  Glad I could point you in a good direction.


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## nwcatman (Jan 27, 2008)

> _Originally posted by jwoodwright_
> 
> John, the Delta P-20 is virtually vibration free and straight stack cuts every time.  For around $550.00 you get a machine that works better than a $1500.00 Hegner, or $1200.00 RBI Hawk.
> 
> ...


 i bought, on ur advice, a factory refinished P-20 that i will recieve in about a week. if it doesn't work good i need ur address and directions to ur house so we can talk about this further!  seriously, thanks for the tips!


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## jwoodwright (Jan 28, 2008)

John,
Post pictures.  Sounds great.  They give you any warrenty since it's a factory reconditioned?

You know, you'll get to William Young in B.C. before you get to Alaska!  LOL  Haven't met Bill, we have emailed and he knows a lot.

I do hope you're happy with your P-20.  John


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## byounghusband (Jan 28, 2008)

Hey John,


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## byounghusband (Jan 28, 2008)

Hey John,
If you don't mind me asking, how much did you get teh REcon'd P-20 for?  PM me if you don't want to post it.

BTW, I got my Dleta SS250 back from the shop and it has a lot less wobble than before, but still has some.  I guess that's whatI get for a $100....[B)]


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## nwcatman (Jan 28, 2008)

> _Originally posted by byounghusband_
> 
> Hey John,
> If you don't mind me asking, how much did you get teh REcon'd P-20 for?  PM me if you don't want to post it.
> ...


i paid $325 for it. it is 45 miles east of dallas and a "pick up only" item. but a neighbor is close by visiting family and he picked it up for me today. will get it at the end of the week when he returns. told him i'd buy him a tank of gas.


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## byounghusband (Jan 29, 2008)

Nice find!!  Do yo uknow of any more??


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