# Liquid ink rollerball



## txbob (Jun 30, 2006)

Recently I mentioned that I was working on a rollerball pen that used either fountain pen ink cartridges or a converter. Well, here are the pictures:

It's a large pen, shown here with a cigar pen.





With the cap off




Here it is showing the rollerball point and an ink convertor.




And here it is completely dissambled. It still needs an O-ring seal so the cap will be air tight, and a pocket clip. No, the cap doesn't post on the back of the pen.




The rollerball point assembly is from a Kaweco Sport pen, made in Germany. It's a very nice writing mechanism, with a very bold line.

Your comments are always welcome.....
txbob


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## SteveRoberts (Jun 30, 2006)

Very nice project, you should be proud.


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## huntersilver (Jun 30, 2006)

Interesting pen, great job.  Do you find
the cartridge to work the same as the converter?


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## txbob (Jun 30, 2006)

> _Originally posted by huntersilver_
> <br />Interesting pen, great job.  Do you find
> the cartridge to work the same as the converter?


Actually, I haven't used the convertor, other than to confirm that it fits. I prefer ink cartridges, and I sized the pen to use the international "small" size cartridges.
txbob


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## Ron Mc (Jun 30, 2006)

Very nicely done Bob!
So...If I understand this right there is something that penetrates into the cartridge that allows the ink to flow?
I'm glad to see you making pens again![]


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## Penmonkey (Jun 30, 2006)

Very very nice Bob![][][]


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## challagan (Jun 30, 2006)

Nice work Bob, I haven't seen anything like that before. 

Corey


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## bjackman (Jul 1, 2006)

txbob,
Very nice!
were the guts taken from a Kaweko by chance?


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## PenWorks (Jul 1, 2006)

Very Very nice Bob. I have not tried that type of writing system yet.
Monteverde makes a FP ink roller ball as well.


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## bjackman (Jul 1, 2006)

Anthony,
I understand you should be able to get "replacement" nibs/tips for montverde's new mega ink ball for about $10 each. The pens come with three replacements as the manufacturer says the ball/tip does wear out eventually with use. Actual realistic durability is still being debated/tested. I would think an ink like noodlers eel inks with lubrication built into the formula would help extend the life.
They seem a bit pricey (at $150+ ), for a fairly basic plastic body with a ten dollar tip system.
Another I've been meaning to look at the possibility of modifying for use is the Borghini ink-o-sphere


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## PenWorks (Jul 1, 2006)

The Montverde rep is really hipping this pen. He says they are flying off the shelf and he loves his. I thought they were pricey as well. I have to order one for a customer, so I will see it pretty soon. I was not aware of another comapny making one.
Maybe Bob will let us know what the cost of that pen system was.


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## Johnathan (Jul 1, 2006)

Nice work, I love that the ball is always turning around here.


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## johncrane (Jul 1, 2006)

Fantastic pens you are very creative Bob keep'em coming mate.


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## txbob (Jul 1, 2006)

Thanks for the compliments and comments.

Anthony, I saw the Monteverde ads and started looking for a cheaper version. The Kaweco pen costs $9.75 at Swisher Pens. http://www.swisherpens.com/ click on Kaweco, then Ice Collection. They also make an eyedropper version. I looked a long time before I found the Kaweco pens. They're a German company that's been making pens since 1883. Check out http://www.penseller.com/pages/kaweco.htm for more information.

Anthony, can we buy the Monteverde replacement tip without buying the pen for $150? I might be interested in trying one of them also.  An upcoming project will be my version of the Fat Mike pen you sell.

Thanks for looking,
txbob



> _Originally posted by PenWorks_
> <br />The Montverde rep is really hipping this pen. He says they are flying off the shelf and he loves his. I thought they were pricey as well. I have to order one for a customer, so I will see it pretty soon. I was not aware of another comapny making one.
> Maybe Bob will let us know what the cost of that pen system was.


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## Rob (Jul 1, 2006)

I can only say WOW!  Turned on a metal lathe I presume?

Regards, Rob


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## txbob (Jul 1, 2006)

Hi Rob,
Yes, on a Taig lathe. The taper on the pen body was cut using a cross slide, but the ends of the cap and body were shaped by hand. I made a tool to hold metal cutting bits in a wooden handle, and use it with a woodworker's tool rest to freehand the shapes.

Glad you like it, it was a lot of fun to make.

txbob



> _Originally posted by Rob_
> <br />I can only say WOW!  Turned on a metal lathe I presume?
> 
> Regards, Rob


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## bjackman (Jul 2, 2006)

I have a source where I can get the Kaweco ink ball pens at $8 each with no shipping charges to get them to me.
If there is any interest I would be willing to set up something in the group buy area.
Probably looking at around a two week time frame.


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## Rifleman1776 (Jul 2, 2006)

Your concept is interesting. Sorry, I don't see any real beauty or advantage. Looking at what you have done brings the question to mind: Why?


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## Chuck Key (Jul 2, 2006)

> _Originally posted by bjackman_
> <br />I have a source where I can get the Kaweco ink ball pens at $8 each with no shipping charges to get them to me.
> If there is any interest I would be willing to set up something in the group buy area.
> Probably looking at around a two week time frame.



Bill,

Couple of questions:

1.  Can you get the extra octagonal clips also?

2.  Would you turn the orders using USPS First Class?

If you can get the clips I may be interested in two pens and two clips.  If no clips I will order directly from the site mentions or maybe stop by next time I am in VA Beach.

Chuckie


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## txbob (Jul 2, 2006)

Hi Frank,
I think the best answer to "why" is "to learn to use my new metal lathe." I'm a rank beginner with it, having always turned on a wood lathe. As for "beauty", that's a subjective thing. I'm happy with it, but the shape is nothing unusual. What is unusual is that it uses liquid ink, and whether or not that's an "advantage" depends on your needs. The advantage for me was what I learned in making it. I don't plan to use it for writing on a regular basis, but I'm glad I made it.

Having been without a lathe for several years, it's nice to be back making pens. I'm enjoying the design freedom that comes from working in metal, and making pens other than what I can make from a kit.

Thanks for looking,
txbob



> _Originally posted by Rifleman1776_
> <br />Your concept is interesting. Sorry, I don't see any real beauty or advantage. Looking at what you have done brings the question to mind: Why?


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## bjackman (Jul 2, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Chuck Key_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...



Chuckie,
Yes on the clips, $1.50 each. I didn't mention them, as I was assuming most orders here would be to disassemble and use the ink ball tip in a custom made body of one's own making, however at this price I plan to order a couple colors (clear being one) just to use as is. []
I have had good success shipping USPS first class. To me a very economical and reliable way to ship small relatively light items like pens. Seems to get there as fast or almost as fast as the three day priority and usually costs about a buck an a half. If someone were ordering many of them a priority envelope might be better. I would be willing to do either one.


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## DCBluesman (Jul 2, 2006)

Bill--I'd be interested in giving these a try.


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## Rifleman1776 (Jul 2, 2006)

> _Originally posted by txbob_
> <br />Hi Frank,
> I think the best answer to "why" is "to learn to use my new metal lathe." I'm a rank beginner with it, having always turned on a wood lathe. As for "beauty", that's a subjective thing. I'm happy with it, but the shape is nothing unusual. What is unusual is that it uses liquid ink, and whether or not that's an "advantage" depends on your needs. The advantage for me was what I learned in making it. I don't plan to use it for writing on a regular basis, but I'm glad I made it.
> 
> ...



Fair enough. Ideas and innovation usually result in progress. Just because it ain't my 'thang' doesn't mean it can't be yours.


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## Chuck Key (Jul 2, 2006)

[/quote]

I was assuming most orders here would be to disassemble and use the ink ball tip in a custom made body of one's own making
[/quote]

Exactly, I plan to use the clips for these and totally unrelated pens.

If you will add me to your order I will take:

2 Pens Blue but color really does not matter
2 Chrome Clips
2 Gold Clips

Please contact me by email with payment information.

By the way, I like you pen TxBob!!

Chuckie


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## bjackman (Jul 2, 2006)

Ok, seems there is some interest, I will get a post set up in the group buys forum. Sorry txbob, didn't mean to hijack your thread. Very nice execution of an idea i've been kicking around for a while. 
Now I have someone to ask questions when I run into issues []


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## txbob (Jul 2, 2006)

For those planning to disassemble the pen and use the writing tip mechanism, it's pretty easy to do. The black piece just snaps into the outer housing. You can rotate it with your fingers, but I couldn't pull it out easily. I didn't want to break anything, so I chucked up the outer housing and turned it down pretty thin. That weakened it enough that the black part snapped out. Careful cutting with a model railroad track saw should work also.

Thanks for the comments,
txbob



> _Originally posted by bjackman_
> <br />Ok, seems there is some interest, I will get a post set up in the group buys forum. Sorry txbob, didn't mean to hijack your thread. Very nice execution of an idea i've been kicking around for a while.
> Now I have someone to ask questions when I run into issues []


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## DCBluesman (Jul 2, 2006)

Oooppsss!  Excellent pen and great way to push the envelope, Bob!


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## Gary Max (Jul 2, 2006)

Great looking pen Bob ---hope to see it in person soon.
Have a great one


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## txbob (Jul 2, 2006)

Thank you Gary! I hope to show it to you this winter. I think we'll be in AZ in February, then head east to your part of the country. Next summer we'll be in Alaska instead of Wyoming.
Keep the wood spinning 'round,
txbob  &lt;-- in beautiful downtown Riverton WY



> _Originally posted by Gary Max_
> <br />Great looking pen Bob ---hope to see it in person soon.
> Have a great one


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## btboone (Jul 2, 2006)

Nice job on it Bob.  How do the parts go together?  I see that the barrel screws into the back portion, but how does the plastic nib part stay in?  Are there fine threads or just a press fit or perhaps just being trapped front and back with the ink cartridge?  Also, how does the cap stay on?  You mentioned the O-ring on the cap.  It may be tough to retain it on the inside of a cap.  Maybe just an internal groove in the cap metal for that?  How might that work?  Any plans on a clip?  I'm having a hard time on custom ones for metal pens.  There never seems to be enough room or a decent way to mount them.  These are the details that are tough on a do-it-yourself pen.  Looks like you're making good progress with the new lathe.  Once the workings are all ironed out, you could probably make some metal fittings that work for wood pens as well.  Here's to continued success with your ventures.


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## thewishman (Jul 2, 2006)

Creative and good-looking, congratulations on a successful experiment.

Chris


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## txbob (Jul 3, 2006)

Hi Bruce,
The cap will be held in place with an O-ring on the body of the pen, not inside the cap. The plastic point mechanism just snaps into place and seems to stay quite well.

The pocket clip is my biggest problem. So far I've been using slide on clips from various pens. I want a more custom look, though, so it's still a problem. I want to try putting a Pentel style clip inside the upper body tube, with a small notch for the clip to come out. For this roller ball pen I think I'll make another cap with the rounded end cut off, and mount a cigar pen clip with a rounded stud, i.e. bury the clip in the end of the cap. Once I get the milling bits and pieces I need I want to try making a solid clip from aluminum and spring load it, hinged on the cap.

Thanks for your comments,
txbob



> _Originally posted by btboone_
> <br />Nice job on it Bob.  How do the parts go together?  I see that the barrel screws into the back portion, but how does the plastic nib part stay in?  Are there fine threads or just a press fit or perhaps just being trapped front and back with the ink cartridge?  Also, how does the cap stay on?  You mentioned the O-ring on the cap.  It may be tough to retain it on the inside of a cap.  Maybe just an internal groove in the cap metal for that?  How might that work?  Any plans on a clip?  I'm having a hard time on custom ones for metal pens.  There never seems to be enough room or a decent way to mount them.  These are the details that are tough on a do-it-yourself pen.  Looks like you're making good progress with the new lathe.  Once the workings are all ironed out, you could probably make some metal fittings that work for wood pens as well.  Here's to continued success with your ventures.


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## btboone (Jul 3, 2006)

Thanks for the details Bob.  That's great that the point mechanism is able to snap in.  Simple is good.  I agree that one of the best looking and more functional clips can be done by machining a solid one and spring loading it.  Visconti does this with great results.  Like any parts milled from sheet stock, the trick is holding it as the machine completes the cut so that the cutter doesn't gouge the part.  One problem I've run into is having space for hinge and spring mechanisms.  This is partly due to me using thread on caps and using fountain pen nibs, which are offset from the centerline of the pen, so you need to allow a whole swath of clearance for when the cap gets screwed on.  This is where a press on cap can eliminate the threads, but ideally it should lock in place to be sure it can't come apart in a pocket.  Just adding extra material to the end of the pen is an option for getting a hinge in there, but is saved as a last option to keep aesthetcs in line.  I also prefer to make the cap in one piece rather than several because of manufacturing considerations, but to get stuff in there, I might need to add the extra parts.  I have a design in CAD but haven't been able to work on it in months because of my heavy ring workload lately.  I am experimenting with stamping my own clip using a hydraulic press.  I tried some simple plastic dies cut with a laser to see if I could get by without having to machine them all from steel, but only got a deep emboss rather than a clean die cut on the sheet titanium parts.  Looks like I'll have to spend the time to make real dies or machine them.


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## alamocdc (Jul 11, 2006)

I'm speechless! Look out, Bruce, it looks like you may have some competition coming up.[}][]


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