# The Golden Mean



## eharri446 (Apr 9, 2018)

I was looking around on Amazon.com and came across a divider which marks out the golden mean for any length.

I am waiting on it to be delivered and once it gets here I will add more information. 

From what I have seen, you set the two outer ends to the length of the pen you want to make, and the inner pointer will show you the dividing line between the top and the bottom.

Time will tell if I made a good purchase or just wasted some more money.

Here is a link to the set that I ordered:  https://www.amazon.com/CALIPERS-Eyebrow-Microblading-Permanent-Stainless/dp/B0732V4MK5/ref=sr_1_3_sspa?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1523293434&sr=1-3-spons&keywords=golden+mean+calipers&psc=1

Here is what they look like: 
View in Gallery


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## Curly (Apr 9, 2018)

I bought the Phi Rules from Lee Valley to do the same for flatwork like boxes etc. I have to admit I rarely use them. Curious to see how you feel about your purchase.


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## magpens (Apr 9, 2018)

Thanks, Elwin. . Could be useful ... I like gadgets like that. .  I checked the Amazon ad:


                              Measures the Golden Mean, also known as The Golden Ratio and Phi
                              Used extensively in Microblading and other Beauty practices
                              Stainless Steel, Fully reusable and able to sterilize
                              Microblading eyebrow divider
                              Eyebrow Permanent Makeup Supplies


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## Curly (Apr 9, 2018)

magpens said:


> Thanks, Elwin. . Could be useful ... I like gadgets like that. .  I checked the Amazon ad:
> 
> 
> Measures the Golden Mean, also known as The Golden Ratio and Phi
> ...



Mal how would it be used on a crocked face? You know. The people with one eye lower than the other. 


Or am I just being "mean"?


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## Charlie_W (Apr 9, 2018)

Curly said:


> magpens said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks, Elwin. . Could be useful ... I like gadgets like that. .  I checked the Amazon ad:
> ...



Pete....Is a “Crocked Face” occur when someone gets their head stuck in a crock?.....Or when someone has had too much to drink? :biggrin:


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## magpens (Apr 9, 2018)

Who knows what Curly is talking about ?  Help please. :biggrin:


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## Lucky2 (Apr 9, 2018)

Elwin, you could have made one out of wood, for a lot less money. I have three of them I made, I used 1/4" thick wood. The plans are available in numerous internet sites, just look for the plans by searching Fibonnacci scale.
Len


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## Curly (Apr 10, 2018)

Crooked. Darn phone spell check changed it to Crocked. Sorry. Didn’t mean to turn the thread into a crock.


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## magpens (Apr 10, 2018)

Yeah ..... right ...... Curly ! . Blame it on the spell checker !! . LOL !

Nice try ..................... !!


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## GaryMGg (Apr 10, 2018)

I typically think of the Golden Mean for flatwork.

For round, I think of the Fibonacci sequence.


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## Penultimate (Apr 10, 2018)

Here's a little insignificant trivia. If you create a Fibonacci series and divide the last number by the previous you will approach to the Golden Ratio. It works with any two seed numbers not just 1,1. Also, the Golden Ratio is one of the few ratios where the reciprocal is the decimal portion. 1/1.618=0.618. Furthermore, Leonardo de Pisa aka Fibonacci brought the Arabic number system and arithmetic method to the Mediterranean. 


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## magpens (Apr 10, 2018)

Thanks, Mike ! . Nice to be reminded of those facts.


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## Dehn0045 (Apr 10, 2018)

Does anybody else call it the golden ratio?  I remember seeing a scientific analysis that said that all of the natural observations of the golden ratio (or mean) are basically no more common than random chance.  Fortunately I had already learned just how many times I was lied to in high school, so my world wasn't too shattered.  Anyway, all of this math discussion makes me want to catch up on Numberphile (a super nerdy YouTube channel).  Just so you know, the largest known prime number is 2^77,232,917 − 1.   You're welcome.


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## Edgar (Apr 10, 2018)

Dehn0045 said:


> Does anybody else call it the golden ratio?  I remember seeing a scientific analysis that said that all of the natural observations of the golden ratio (or mean) are basically no more common than random chance.  Fortunately I had already learned just how many times I was lied to in high school, so my world wasn't too shattered.  Anyway, all of this math discussion makes me want to catch up on Numberphile (a super nerdy YouTube channel).  Just so you know, the largest known prime number is 2^77,232,917 − 1.   You're welcome.



I've always referred to it as the golden ratio also. Other common names are golden section, divine ratio, divine proportion, golden number, and a few others that I don't remember off the top of my head.


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## Lenny (Apr 11, 2018)

One of my favorite woodworking authors co-wrote a couple of books that take a more historical look at ratios in design. Check out "By Hand and Eye" or the more practical "By Hound and Eye" written by George Walker and Jim Tolpin.


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## leehljp (Apr 11, 2018)

I have heard it called - or more specifically Written - as both golden mean and golden ration. 99.9% of the people I know don't have a clue as to what that is, , so the only way I run into those words is through the printed word! :wink:


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## Gregory Hardy (Apr 11, 2018)

I was fortunate to have an Art teacher in school who was a very well educated and well-rounded man.  The "golden mean" was a part of his instruction to us.  (He also always reminded us that a quick rule of thumb was 5:8.  It's not exact, but it's a great down-and-dirty ratio to use during the design phase of nearly anything that you want to have a "comfortable proportion" in the end.)


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## Wildman (Apr 14, 2018)

Long but does dis-spells Golden Mean & Fibonacci numbers: Fact versus Fiction

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oyyXC5IzEE

fhttps://www.quantumbalancing.com/images/goldenmeangauge.jpg

You can convert mm's to inches online or just layout with digital caliper.

https://www.harborfreight.com/6-in-...sae-and-metric-fractional-readings-62569.html

Believe what the professor says debunking the golden mean.  Most design is derived by ratios & proportions and entire books devoted to the subject for fussy butts  that have serious math skills. 

While don't use the golden mean or ratio do follow Rude Osolnik's rule of thirds and lay out most of my turning with my homemade Fibonacci Gauge with pencil lines. Certainly don't need my gauge to make a pen but for other turned item it's quick & easy.   Listen to many woodturning guru's extol virtues of golden mean but do we need it for turning pleasing shapes? I don't think so if your mileage is different from mine so be it!


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## Wildman (Apr 14, 2018)

Woodturning Design by Laura & Barry Uden 

http://www.westbaywoodturners.com/tutorial/pdf_files/Woodturning_Design.pdf

While not a fan of golden mean do think these folks tackled a very difficult subject and worth your taking a look only 37 pages.


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## carlmorrell (Apr 14, 2018)

I used the golden ratio for determining a set of drawer heights. If I remember correctly, I started with the height of the bottom drawer. The next drawer up, it's height is based on the drawer below. No calculations, just a radius. The procedure iterates for each drawer.   Figured cherry with bocote trim. inlaid pulls and top. This chest of drawers was in Fine Woodworking periodical,  around 20 years ago.


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## jaybreda (Apr 22, 2018)

It’s useful.  If you purchased one that is large enough you can use it for a multitude of other things.  Measure the ratio for pepper mills for example


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## eharri446 (Apr 22, 2018)

I recently made a Baron pen for someone and when I placed the two ends of the divider on the ends of the pen, the center pointer was almost exactly where the cap met the body when the two were put together.

So as far as it goes for me, I think that it will help me in making kitless pens, especially if I decide to make one a little longer or shorter than the norm as seen by the kits that are available.


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## Gregory Hardy (Apr 22, 2018)

Wildman said:


> Long but does dis-spells Golden Mean & Fibonacci numbers: Fact versus Fiction
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oyyXC5IzEE
> 
> ...



I'd love to see a photo of your homemade Fibonacci Gauge - share if you have time?  (And I think you made a case against yourself in your post.  The golden mean really is simply a "ratio or proportion," and it's a pretty easy one to use...and is probably less "fussy" than Fibonacci sequence!)


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## Wildman (Apr 26, 2018)

Cannot find original PDF file turners have been using for years.

http://www.goldennumber.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/golden-section-gauge.gif

Here are couple lamps used my fibonacci gauge to mark off lines few year ago.   Beauty of  fibonacci gauge  just lets you mark off layout lines on the lathe before turning something.  

Just got into hollowing marked off where would make separations on the log in order to do my hollowing.  No a fibonacci gauge will not make everything you turn a masterpiece!  Same goes for golden mean!  

Last Pine Lamp & Maybe not last Dog Wood Box - by Wildwood @ LumberJocks.com ~ woodworking community

Table Lamp - by Wildwood @ LumberJocks.com ~ woodworking community


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## Wildman (Apr 27, 2018)

So what say you now Gregory Hardy, my simple homemade fibonacci gauge allows me to mark out different design elelments on my lathe with a pencil  on a woodturning without any math.  While don't always use my fibonacci gauge and do resort to ruler and pencil marks for laying out different design elements on small turnings.  Guess could make or buy a smaller fibonacci gauge for smaller turnings and save some time maybe later.

There are design Books available devoted to different proportions & ratios formulas for every line can put on paper. Also computer software available to do the same.  

Posted a link to Uden's, “Woodturning Design,”  trying to point out lot of different ways to come up with more pleasing shapes using various methods to achieve your personal design goals.   

What works for me most of the time is rule of thirds whether use my fibonacci gauge or not to come up with pleasing shapes.  Have no problems different approaches people use achieving their design goals!


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## magpens (Apr 27, 2018)

I just enjoy the mental activity of remembering the Golden Ratio as 1.62 and applying it whenever I need it.  I keep a calculator handy for all sorts of reasons, including proportioning with the Golden Ratio.

If I had one of those gauges I would only lose it !!  LOL !


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## lorbay (Apr 27, 2018)

Here is yet another link to make your own.
Lin
https://www.goldennumber.net/do-it-yourself/


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## Penultimate (Apr 27, 2018)

I just noticed that Wildman's drawing follows Fibonacci numbers if you divide them by 10. 


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