# Format?? Computer guys needed, please.



## ed4copies (Dec 4, 2010)

OK, here's the problem:

I want to make "informational cards" available for anyone to download and use with their pen sales.

I want to make them in various sizes---biz card, postcard, letter size.  Each will be it's own file, but I want the "end user" to be able to use them without "fidgeting" with them.

So, the user downloads the file, says "print", puts the right paper in his printer and bango--has his documents.

What format(s) can I use to make this happen?
Can .pdf be adapted to print on "odd" sizes?

What are my best options, please???

Thanks to all who are much smarter than I in this area!!!:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

BONUS POINTS!!!!  FOR ANSWERING THIS ONE:
Can we make a card where the "penmaker" can add his name or logo to the text provided, in a space provided?  As far as I know, pdf will not allow you ANY editing--is there a better way???  (Only a True Alpha-alphageeky guy would know this!!)

Thanks again for any input---keep it in simple AMERICAN, I have to understand it!!!!


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## Padre (Dec 4, 2010)

ed4copies said:


> OK, here's the problem:
> 
> I want to make "informational cards" available for anyone to download and use with their pen sales.
> 
> ...



I think just making documents in Word would be the easiest.  Then the person can download it and tweak it any way they want.  You can set up a set of files in Word for different sizes and post them to your site.  Then just put a link to the file to download, or make it an auto-download, you know, when you click the link the file automatically downloads.

HTH


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## leestoresund (Dec 4, 2010)

Can't answer all of your questions  but

Adobe has a "typewriter" function that allows you to type additional information onto the document. If you have the professional Adobe you can even change fonts.
I would thus assume that some of the freebie pdf makers will have a similar function.
The Adobe reader has no additional functions.

Lee


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## leestoresund (Dec 4, 2010)

Word is a good idea. But 2003 is not compatible with 2007 is not compatible with 2010 (altho' the reverse is compatible.)
It also has the advantage of being able to be modified by the freebie OpenOffice.

Lee


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## Fred (Dec 4, 2010)

I would think there has to be a way to do this ... BUT, then I think about all the printer types out there, the choice of fonts, the various choices of How many to be printed, should the lettering be centered, bold, italic, etc.

And then I say it would be far easier to just let the individual do it themselves...

Whatever you do, DO NOT offer your telephone number for support. That opens the door to far more questions and such not!


Hummmm, Plausiable Deniability also comes to mind!


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## renowb (Dec 4, 2010)

Microsoft Publisher?


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## arioux (Dec 4, 2010)

You might want to look at the stationnary companies, like avery.  They all have template for their product.

http://www.avery.com/avery/en_us/Templates-&-Software

And these template work with a lot of other stationnay brand too.

forgot to add that they are free


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## ed4copies (Dec 4, 2010)

would it be fair to assume we could make this in "early Word" and everyone would have SOME way to read and print?

As far as I know, this is limited in size, though.  It will print on letter or legal but what about postcard size?  (Honestly, I think there will be too much information for it to fit on a business card, anyhow--but postcard should work)


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## Padre (Dec 4, 2010)

ed4copies said:


> would it be fair to assume we could make this in "early Word" and everyone would have SOME way to read and print?
> 
> As far as I know, this is limited in size, though.  It will print on letter or legal but what about postcard size?  (Honestly, I think there will be too much information for it to fit on a business card, anyhow--but postcard should work)



Word has the capability to save it in 'early' or 'late' versions.  You could also do a .rtf file, Rich Text File that many different types of word processors could use.


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## Curly (Dec 4, 2010)

If you do the instructions as a .doc then they can be copied and pasted into almost any thing else. The end user can then use Avery (to make cards etc.,) or any other word processor or print on the paper of their choice. 

Thanks for being so generous with your time.
Pete


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## toddlajoie (Dec 4, 2010)

PDFs can be sized to anything withing reason (not sure about the extremes of large or small, but I have done PDFs in just about everything from business card size to 4 foot by 8 foot posters. Depending on how they are created, since PDFs often start in other programs and are the results of a print driver that creates the PDF, the original program often has some limitations. For example, we have clients that want to make 4x8 foot posters, and do them in Powerpoint. But Powerpoint won't let you make a document with those dimensions. You can make the Powerpoint at 1/2 size (2x4 feet) but it will nor print out properly. You have to make it significantly smaller proportionally to get it to work. The printout issue can increasingly complicate things, as the Adobe reader allows printing output to scale in a number of ways, reducing or enlarging as needed to fill the printer paper with the image, printing to a fixed percentage of the size or printing to the original size and "tiling" the printout if the document page size is larger than the printer paper (so each page would be partially printed on multiple pages that can be taped together to make a larger piece.

I'm not entirely clear on what you're trying to do, but if, for example, I wanted to make a "business card" size document for others too print out, I would make a standard page size (i.e. letter paper, 8.5x11) with the document repeated on the page as often as possible to use the paper, so a single page might have 4, 8, 10, whatever number would fit and blank space to make up the difference. That way the user could print it out on standard Letter paper (probably 98% of printers can do this size) and get the closest approximation of the original size (every printer has slightly different margins, so if scaling is selected it may be printed within 95-105%).

As for editing PDF files, it can be done. You typically would need the full version of Adobe Acrobat or another program that can edit PDFs (Adobe Illustrator, InDesign, Photoshop, probably some others), but there are issues with it, mostly around the conversion process between the original application (Word, Powerpoint, whatever) and the PDF File. It often will create random breaks in the text of the document, so if for example the document had the following line:

"The quick brown fox did something I can't remember."

the PDF might have the text broken into the following pieces:

"The qu" 
"ick brow" 
"n fox did something I c" 
"an't rem" 
"em" 
"ber."

and then those text boxes are laid out on the page so it looks just like the original. However, if you try to change "quick" to "fast" you run into problems because the text is in 2 different fields, and you may or may not be able to move them, so removing or adding text causes REALLY strange headaches.

Now if you use the Adobe apps that use PDF as their format, Adobe Illustrator for example, you don't get this problem, because the print driver conversion process is not used. But that's not necessarily a good solution, because PDFs also use a funky system to replicate any unusual fonts you may or may not be using, so you still may get font errors when trying to edit them.

There is a method for making "forms" in PDF format, that are intended for users to fill out, and have some areas where text can be added, but I have not dealt with these too much to know how flexible they can be with design and such. All the ones I have worked with were just fields to fill in your name/address/etc. Not sure if something like that would work for your ideas.

I have seen some examples of Adobe Flash apps that can do these sorts of things on a web page, with formatted text that can be edited and moved around within a fixed design layout and then printed, but I'm not sure of any easy way to make it something that could be saved by the end user (unless of course they had the PDF print driver) for future use, and saving them to your web site would require a whole bunch of Database know-how, which is beyond my understanding...

I've been looking at doing something similar to that in Adobe Flash, so if I get some time and feel like playing I may be looking into setting something like that up, if I find out anything I'll post it...

(hope I didn't go to geeky for you...)

While I was typing all this giberish, the Word option came out. Another option in that end is to save it as HTML from Word. Most Word versions back to 2000 or so will edit in the HTML format without having the version compatability issues, and allowing editing in other applications like Dreamweaver or even Text...


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## mtgrizzly52 (Dec 4, 2010)

Ed,

You are able to do a lot with PDF documents if you have the full version of Adobe Acrobat. I have both the regular full blown and the pro version and there is quite a bit you can do, to include setting up forms with fill in blanks. It sometimes takes some work to do what is easy in Word, but when you get it set up, things work great. You should be able to do what you want if you are willing to spend a couple of hundred dollars for the Pro version of Acrobat and take some time learning the program.

Rick (mtgrizzly52)


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## ed4copies (Dec 4, 2010)

Rick,
I am both old and obstinate!!  I have been working with CorelDraw for 20 years and I use it acceptably well.  I can make all these formats in Corel and it will "translate" them to other formats.  So, all the "work" here will be done in Corel.

BUT, I know the average pen-turner will not have Corel, so the form will be useless to them, unless I can convert it to a format that they have and know how to use.

So, that is the real goal---Word makes sense--but i am concerned that the default margin settings  could "mess up" anything we design, when the penmaker downloads and tries to print.

Hope that more accurately states my dilemma!!

Yes, the Avery formats are a good choice--I use them regularly and could "work around" that, if most users can figure them out.

"Universality" is our goal---


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## ctubbs (Dec 4, 2010)

Ed, most word processors today can take .pdf files and work with them. Even the cheap - free ones can to some extent modify a .pdf file to add things such as a name, address, price,etc.  There are free or nearly free programs available just to modify .pdfs.  They have an easy to learn front end and take up very little space.
Charles


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## alphageek (Dec 4, 2010)

Ed, 

Getting the output to PDF is your best bet.   Not only can you size it specifically to the output size in pdf, it is possible for ANYONE to add their own text to any PDF as an "overlay" in other words, you typically cannot edit text, but if you leave a space, they can add their own.

I'll put together some instuctions for you for PC or Mac, but this is really easy and won't require any software purchase for the people who use this.   And in general you can create the PDF from any software you want because there is a PDF printer software where you output from any app to a pdf file.

Dean


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## ssajn (Dec 4, 2010)

I was going to tell you to talk to me bout this tomorrow but I think dean nailed it. Even so I might have another option.


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## Dave_M (Dec 4, 2010)

PDF is your best bet.  PDF - Portable Document Format was created specifically for that purpose.  If you chose Word, Corel, or any other word processor you would have to ensure you used a common truetype or postscript font in the document.  Otherwise each printer would print a slightly different size & space for each character and the document would be formated differently from printer to printer.  One idea behind using truetype / postscript fonts or PDF documents is to ensure the document is formated exactly the same for each person using the document.


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## Rick_G (Dec 4, 2010)

Ed, Avery has free software available that has templates for all their labels, card stock etc.  You do one card and then when you print let it know how many labels or sheets you want.  I use it all the time.

You can only use the output with their software but they they give you the software free so anyone wanting the info could download the sofware.  It even has a database function so you could put a different name on each card.

http://www.avery.com/avery/en_us/Templates-&-Software/Software/Avery-DesignPro-for-PC.htm


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## ed4copies (Dec 4, 2010)

Still working on it, haven't forgotten.  I'm not happy with it, yet.


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## sparhawk (Dec 4, 2010)

ed4copies said:


> Rick,
> I am both old and obstinate!!  I have been working with CorelDraw for 20 years and I use it acceptably well.  I can make all these formats in Corel and it will "translate" them to other formats.  So, all the "work" here will be done in Corel.
> 
> BUT, I know the average pen-turner will not have Corel, so the form will be useless to them, unless I can convert it to a format that they have and know how to use.
> ...



Since i have Correl Ed , i wonder about your statement.:biggrin:


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## ed4copies (Dec 4, 2010)

OK,
anyone who wants to be a "critic", PM me with your email address and I will send you the PDF--proofread and critique.

Be nice though, it has been reduced from a full page to a postcard in only five hours!!  But the format will work for other parts of this project, so it's not as bad as it sounds.

Your name, etc can be printed on the other side--the whole page will be blank.


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## Timbo (Dec 4, 2010)

I think I would stick with OpenOffice.  It's free, and avialable on Windows and Mac, so just about anyone can use the output without additional costs.  But instead of distributing documents, I would save the files as Templates and distribute those.  Unlike a document file, templates are not changed by the user.  Generally, when you select "new document", in addition to being offered the option to start a blank document, you will be offered an option to start a document based on a template.  Everything that you saved in the Template, will automatically appear in the new document...formatting, graphics, fonts....everything.  Form fields allow users to input their own information.  Form field can be saved in the template also.  If you stick to a limited set of fonts common to both platforms, that should eliminate formatting issues caused by unavailable fonts.

PM me if you want to investigate this route further.


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## randyrls (Dec 4, 2010)

ed4copies said:


> OK, here's the problem:
> 
> What format(s) can I use to make this happen?
> Can .pdf be adapted to print on "odd" sizes?
> ...




Ed;  Most PDF printers can create any size label, or form that a word processor can.  There are even free versions that install and look like a printer on your system.  Just bring up the document in whatever program you happen to use, select File, Print and select the Pdf printer.  It askes you for a file name and DONE!

The full blown ADboe PDF program can create editable PDF forms too.  I don't know too much about that, I just know that the IRS has PDF versions of tax forms that you can directly enter data into and print the result.  It can even save the data you entered into a form!   I'm not sure if you could insert an image(?)


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## randyrls (Dec 4, 2010)

Timbo said:


> I think I would stick with OpenOffice.  It's free, and avialable on Windows and Mac,
> PM me if you want to investigate this route further.




This intrigued me, so I took a quicky look at what Open Office could do.  I was able to create a Text Input Field using Form Control in Open Office.  I then printed directly to PDF format from Open Office and was able to open and enter data into the form from Adobe Acrobat Reader.  All this was no cost because all this is free software.


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## randyrls (Dec 4, 2010)

To add to the thread;  On some business cards you can print on both sides of the card, so a card could have Ed's information on one side and the penmaker's information on the other side.  Others, you can only print on the front side of the card.  If you try to print on the back side, the ink doesn't penetrate the paper, just pools on the surface.

Ed;   Is there any rhyme or reason to which are which????


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## nativewooder (Dec 4, 2010)

If you can't do it with Open Office for free...........................?


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## ed4copies (Dec 4, 2010)

I use Sam's Business cards and can print on both sides with any of my printers---laser or inkjet.

If you have "pooling" ink, you are using (most likely) a coated paper---designed to make your cards look "glossy"--like magazine stock.

Inkjet may not penetrate glossy stock---laser toner will do fine, since it sits on top of the paper anyhow.

Hope this helps---I will usually use postcard size as my choice, because the type gets REALLY small on biz cards.

But you COULD reduce the postcard to fit, if you wanted.


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## ed4copies (Dec 4, 2010)

Thanks to all who are proof reading and critiquing--we should have this available Sunday late in the day (I will be at the IAP meet in Milwaukee early in the day)

After a few folks use this one (for ink cartridges), we will design a different one for bottle ink users.  Then, this will expand to other products and uses---may want to buy a little 4 x 6 card file box---I had one for my shows.  Very convenient.


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## PenMan1 (Dec 5, 2010)

Ed: 
This is an easy question. Make it PDF files. Leave it "editable", or don't lock it. Those who have Acrobat can munipulate the document to suit there needs. Those that don't have acrobat can print, then scan (all in one printer/fax/scan machines are cheaper that OEM ink cartridges) and make the document fit any size they want.

The wheel has already been invented! Make the perfect tire.

Respectfully submitted


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## TellicoTurning (Dec 5, 2010)

leestoresund said:


> Word is a good idea. But 2003 is not compatible with 2007 is not compatible with 2010 (altho' the reverse is compatible.)
> It also has the advantage of being able to be modified by the freebie OpenOffice.
> 
> Lee



I use open office for all of my word processing... mostly because I lost the original Microsoft Office program when my computer crashed and I didn't want to buy it.... open office will open almost any format... It can be a little funky, but after you use it a while, it gets easier to work with.


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## DurocShark (Dec 5, 2010)

The easiest way without requiring software such as Word be installed on the users computers is to buy Acrobat Pro and make it a form. Then anybody with Acrobat Reader can add their information and print the PDF.


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## TerryBlanchard (Dec 5, 2010)

Avery as someone else said is the easiest.  You can make almost anything and use word to fill in the blanks.  I use their templates all the time and works great.


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## Rick_G (Dec 5, 2010)

DurocShark said:


> The easiest way without requiring software such as Word be installed on the users computers is to buy Acrobat Pro and make it a form. Then anybody with Acrobat Reader can add their information and print the PDF.



That would be ok but then I don't think anyone would want to put out $450 for one form that is being given away free.  

Everyone seems to be getting hung up on what format it is in.  To me it's the wording that I have problems with, I'm not a writer.  If Ed writes it as a text document and gives us permission to copy and use it, I think just about any body on here is capable of cut and paste to whatever format wanted.


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## DurocShark (Dec 5, 2010)

Who says $450? I paid a hundred bucks for Acrobat Pro. 

I feel PDF is the best way to go for something like this. That way you're not having to provide tech support to folks who can't open your Word doc in Word 1.0.


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## Padre (Dec 5, 2010)

There are free PDF programs out there as well as Adobe.  I have Adobe Acrobat Pro and like it.


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## Rick_G (Dec 5, 2010)

DurocShark said:


> Who says $450? I paid a hundred bucks for Acrobat Pro.
> 
> I feel PDF is the best way to go for something like this. That way you're not having to provide tech support to folks who can't open your Word doc in Word 1.0.



That's the price on the Adobe website  if you can find it cheaper great, but I still would not expect someone to shell out $100 for something he is giving away for free and may never use the software again.


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## alphageek (Dec 5, 2010)

My initial thought was that it would be important to have a space for each person to customize.

Now, I'm re-thinking that.   I think that much space would be wasted.   I think that these would be best as is.   If you want to print more information on the back, so be it - however to share this with a customer as "your own" would be grey.   As a generic instruction, it works really well.

I really like the idea of a box "full of these" - inking and FP are a start... I can see a "how to replace your ink" in standard pens too..

Great idea Ed!   I see nothing to change with the one you sent me (other than turning it into a 4-up) and I think these could be a great idea to expand upon.


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## Curly (Dec 5, 2010)

Rick_G said:


> Everyone seems to be getting hung up on what format it is in.  To me it's the wording that I have problems with, I'm not a writer.  If Ed writes it as a text document and gives us permission to copy and use it, I think just about any body on here is capable of cut and paste to whatever format wanted.



I am in agreement with Rick and would reformat the information and print it to suit our needs. If Ed Does choose to put the instructions as a PDF and I can't manipulate it to suit then it isn't a hardship to retype it into a format we like. It's the information Ed is giving to us that is the most important part.

Pete


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## ctubbs (Dec 6, 2010)

Curly said:


> Rick_G said:
> 
> 
> > Everyone seems to be getting hung up on what format it is in.  To me it's the wording that I have problems with, I'm not a writer.  If Ed writes it as a text document and gives us permission to copy and use it, I think just about any body on here is capable of cut and paste to whatever format wanted.
> ...


Amen to both.  Just getting the correct info will be grrrrreeeeeat as Tony says.
Charles


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## jttheclockman (Dec 6, 2010)

I know my memory is not what it once was but din't someone here do this before???  If I recall someone posted a card they use for their pens and you fill in the details but it is a standard business card. Going to have to hit the search program here but I have seen this before.


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## penhead (Dec 6, 2010)

Is it Sunday already..??  





ed4copies said:


> Thanks to all who are proof reading and critiquing--we should have this available Sunday late in the day (I will be at the IAP meet in Milwaukee early in the day)
> 
> After a few folks use this one (for ink cartridges), we will design a different one for bottle ink users.  Then, this will expand to other products and uses---may want to buy a little 4 x 6 card file box---I had one for my shows.  Very convenient.


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## ed4copies (Dec 6, 2010)

As the old song goes, "Sunday will never be the same!!!"

Today, it looks a lot like MONDAY!!!

Here is the link to the finished document:
http://www.exoticblanks.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=71&Itemid=85

Obviously, as the author and "publisher", I have a copyright.  I will allow anyone who wishes to reprint it and distribute with your hand-made pens permission to do so.  If you wish to make it available from your internet site, I will ask that you get my permission.  If your website does not compete with Exotics, you are likely to be allowed to use this and future forms.

Comments are encouraged.


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## Donnie Kennedy (Dec 6, 2010)

Your mission accomplished.


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## ed4copies (Dec 6, 2010)

The next one will be for "Ink Converters".  After a week or so for any improvements that are suggested, I will offer a series of these.


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## aggromere (Dec 6, 2010)

That's cool ed, way to go.  I emailed you one in word format on a folding business card, but edited it down to fit.  Yours looks much nicer.


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## jttheclockman (Dec 6, 2010)

Boy did I misunderstand what you wanted to do. Must be getting old the brain cells are falling out.


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## ctubbs (Dec 7, 2010)

AMAZING, Ed.  That is awesome.  Thank you for all the effort and time you have put into this information sheet for each of us to use as handouts.  Thank you again for your efforts on this project.
Charles


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## penhead (Dec 7, 2010)

haven't printed it out yet...need to stop by Sams and pick up some cards..
the info is awesome...thank you..!

Wish i had had that a couple weekends ago when i was trying to explain to the lady who purchased the FP for her hubby that i would be more than glad to let her put ink in it and write with it 'after' she paid for it...but she really should wait and let her hubby do it...


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## ribanett (Dec 7, 2010)

toddlajoie said:


> "The quick brown fox did something I can't remember."



"*The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dogs back 1234567890*"
Used as a keyboard check


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## penhead (Dec 7, 2010)

Ed (or anyone) can you tell me if these postcards that are for 'inkjet' printers, will they work in a color laserjet..??
http://www.samsclub.com/sams/shop/product.jsp?productId=164476&navAction=

..and presume these are the kind of cards that your ink pen info is formatted for...


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## ed4copies (Dec 7, 2010)

That is the one I use.

I have run them through many laser copiers, high and low speed--use the bypass, if you have one.  They also work in inkjet printers that I have used.

NEVER say ALWAYS!!  So, let's say every thing I have tried has worked----I have probably NOT tried every possible combination of technologies.


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## turner.curtis (Dec 7, 2010)

Hey guys, I did not read every reply in the post, so please forgive me if this is off base or already suggested. Could Google Docs be used to alleviate the formatting and software issues?


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