# An acrylic finishing no-no lesson on bloodwood



## leehljp (Apr 13, 2009)

Background:
The 30 pieces of sliver pen (click here) present some challenges in finishes in that they can't be sanded. Repeating that - they cannot be sanded. If the finish is applied and then sanded through, SMEARING on the silver dots occur. Therefore, layers of CA need to be built up enough that no sand through WILL occur.

For me, this means that I have to build up several thick coats before I start to sand. Most of the time, CA will crinkle when applied in thick coats, or turn white. Of course, applying more CA over this aggravates the problem.

It takes me about 1 to 2 hours (or more) to apply CA finish to a "30's" pen and smooth it out. I am trying to finish 6 before my trip back to the States.

*SO that brings me to this experiment:* I decided to "dip" a couple of the "30" pens in CA and hang them to set and dry. They seem to be doing fine so far. 

I also decided to dip one in a very syrupy Acrylic (acrylic/acetone). 

BIG MISTAKE! The acetone in the acrylic desolved the bloodwood as soon as I put the blank into the jar. It was not in the jar but 1 to 2 seconds. The holly  looked like it had blood stain all over it. (Appropriate for the situation.) So did the BOW but it wasn't as noticeable there. 

About two years ago I tried a similar mix (but thinner) to try and stabilize the bloodwood as an experiment. I noticed then that acetone will dissolve the pigment in bloodwood and leach the colors. But I didn't think that dipping it in thick liquid acrylic for 2 seconds would do that.

Learned a lesson here. I was looking forward to trying the acrylic approach but since I use bloodwood often and holly often, I will have to stick with the CA for those. Lacquer does not build up enough thickness in layers, so I am stuck with the CA for now.


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## NewLondon88 (Apr 13, 2009)

Do you have any scraps that you can try an experiment with? I wonder if applying
a coating of CA will protect it enough to dip it in the acrylic after that. I know the
acetone will act as a solvent for the CA, but not very quickly.. the CA might hold
back the acetone long enough for the acrylic to set. It dries fast.
Just an idea, I haven't tried it myself.


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## leehljp (Apr 13, 2009)

NewLondon88 said:


> Do you have any scraps that you can try an experiment with? I wonder if applying a coating of CA will protect it enough to dip it in the acrylic after that. I know the acetone will act as a solvent for the CA, but not very quickly.. the CA might hold back the acetone long enough for the acrylic to set. It dries fast.
> Just an idea, I haven't tried it myself.



I thought of that today, and I think it might work - but that is my second option now. I thought of turning the blanks down to .1mm below size (or thereabouts) and seeing how casting it in resin works - like a snakeskin. Then turning the resin. Got to give this a try!

I have a trip to the States later this week and will be there for a month. Will give it a try when I get back.


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## NewLondon88 (Apr 13, 2009)

leehljp said:


> I thought of that today, and I think it might work - but that is my second option now. I thought of turning the blanks down to .1mm below size (or thereabouts) and seeing how casting it in resin works - like a snakeskin. Then turning the resin. Got to give this a try!
> 
> I have a trip to the States later this week and will be there for a month. Will give it a try when I get back.



I don't have anything for the Aero yet, but if the larger EB has the same
tubes as a Sierra then PM me an address where you'll be. I have a mold
for the Sierra tubes I can send you.

It's a prototype, so it ain't pretty..(ok, it's downright ugly) but it works.
No corks, no leaks, no weights or stands.. just pop in the blank and pour.


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## leehljp (Apr 13, 2009)

NewLondon88 said:


> I don't have anything for the Aero yet, but if the larger EB has the same
> tubes as a Sierra then PM me an address where you'll be. I have a mold
> for the Sierra tubes I can send you.
> 
> ...



PM sent.


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## hewunch (Apr 13, 2009)

Hank where are you going to be in the States?

Oh and remember when you were asking me about my plexi finish I told you I always put a coat of thin on first? That is why


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## leehljp (Apr 13, 2009)

hewunch said:


> Hank where are you going to be in the States?
> 
> Oh and remember when you were asking me about my plexi finish I told you I always put a coat of thin on first? That is why



Hans,

Well, old men and Baptist preachers listen the least. . . and I am both! :biggrin: I will give that a try again tomorrow.

I am going to try multiple ways to see what works best or how each method works.

I have a couple of 8 oz bottle of med CA, and tried dipping the blanks in them. That has worked OK so far. I will try coating two coats of thin CA and then try dipping the blank in the plexi.

THANKS for reminding me that I didn't listen well - just like a couple of your deacons! :biggrin: After the experiment, I will let you know how it turns out.

I am also going to try casting a slightly under size in PR and turning the PR.


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## GouletPens (Apr 15, 2009)

Hank, have you tried building up layers of thin CA? I love using thin b/c it dries very quickly, which allows me to build up many layers in a short period of time. If I squeeze 3-4 drops on a half-blank and lightly spread it out with a PT, it'll dry enough to do the next coat in 15-20 seconds, and when I do 8 coats I haven't yet sanded through. Just a thought.

By the way , SWEET looking pens.


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## davinci27 (Apr 15, 2009)

I second the thin CA comment.  I do 6-7 coats of thin.  On top of that I do my first sand after the CA with a higher grit. After I apply the CA I use 800 to sand the ca to an even finish.  After the even finish, it's a quick run through the MM grits.  I used to go straight to MM, but the first MM pad is a bit to aggressive, and I would sand through occasionally.  The 800 allows me to get the finish even without accidentally sanding through anywhere.


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## leehljp (Apr 15, 2009)

I am going to try several ways as an experiment in about 6 weeks. I have several bloodwood/holly blanks sized and ready to be finished. I just ran out of time though as I will be headed back to the States in about 12 hours, and will be there for 30 days.

When I get back . . . Lots of ways to look at this.

1. I am going to put some in Charlie's molds that has plugs built in - and see how that works.

2. I tried something that I haven't seen on this forum and the results were OK - I tried dipping the blanks (with stoppers in them) into medium CA. Did several. I will try the THIN to see how that works for me.

3. I am anxiously awaiting some time to coat some in CA and then dip them in the Plexi-acetone mix. 

Dipping and waiting takes longer overall, but that is only if you do one blank at at time. If you turn 6 to 10 blanks to size and dip them, They should be done in 24 hours at the longest. I take an hour on average and often 2 hours on a finish, so the 24 hours for 6 to 10 blanks should be about the same amount of time.

One thing I didn't mention above - dipping in medium CA with stoppers on them makes them a little uneven on the bottom ends, but that doesn't hurt them. I measure with calipers and sand down, measure and get to the specks that I want. The dipping of several at a time eliminates the one frustrating thing for me - waiting for a thick layer to cure (or many many thin, or several medium layers). 

I don't have good luck with accelerator as it causes either white spots or causes smooth curing CA to go Orange peel - not always but enough that it is unpredictable and time consuming to fix.


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## helgi (Apr 15, 2009)

If I'm not mistaken the silver pieces are solder, just a thought could they maybe be replaced with the apropriate size stainless steel weldind rod? Or won't the rod be soft enough to be worked on the lathe?

Helgi


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## leehljp (Apr 16, 2009)

helgi said:


> If I'm not mistaken the silver pieces are solder, just a thought could they maybe be replaced with the apropriate size stainless steel weldind rod? Or won't the rod be soft enough to be worked on the lathe?
> 
> Helgi



Solder is used because it is soft (softer than some woods) where as steel would dull and knick the blade edges quickly - which would result in the pieces being pulled out and sent flying.

Made it back to the States but have jet-lag big time! I found some great packages here waiting on me. It will take me a couple of days to digest everything.


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