# Positioning of cross?



## lwalden (Dec 20, 2008)

Well, the customer who had me make the Texas Flag sierra and Eagle style Cross sierra for her last week asked me to make a second Cross sierra for her, and asked if in the new one I could move the placement of the oval/cross up on the barrel. Now she's thinking she wants three more of the Eagle style cross sierras, but is waffling on which positioning she likes better. I'm including a picture of the two pens with the different positioning- one has the oval/cross centered on the half-way point of the barrel, the other has the oval centered 2/3rds of the way up the barrel. I don't see where either one of the placements looks materially better than the other, so thought I'd solicit feedback from the (cough, cough) professionals..... Do you think placement of the oval/crosses makes one appear more aesthetically pleasing than the other? And if so, can you provide feedback on why it might seem that way to you? 
Thanks-
Lyle


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## kirkfranks (Dec 20, 2008)

not a professional, but I vote for the 2/3


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## Rarest wood (Dec 20, 2008)

number 2 a definitive maybe!


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## wdcav1952 (Dec 20, 2008)

Lyle, the golden mean concept places items of interest off center.  (Yes, I know that is not a decent description of the concept.)  In the spirit of the golden mean, I feel that the off-centered placement of the cross is much better.


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## lwalden (Dec 20, 2008)

Going to go Fibonacci on me, Cav?

That is an excellent point, and may be just the piece of data she needs in order to feel comfortable. Thanks!



wdcav1952 said:


> Lyle, the golden mean concept places items of interest off center.  (Yes, I know that is not a decent description of the concept.)  In the spirit of the golden mean, I feel that the off-centered placement of the cross is much better.


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## HSTurning (Dec 20, 2008)

I personally like the 2/3.  It looks better to me.

SWMBO said she likes the 1/2 because it is more symmetrical but thinkes the 2/3 is more logical to be more likely seen while writing.


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## lwalden (Dec 20, 2008)

Thanks for the feedback, Matt and welcome to the site!! 



HSTurning said:


> I personally like the 2/3.  It looks better to me.
> 
> SWMBO said she likes the 1/2 because it is more symmetrical but thinkes the 2/3 is more logical to be more likely seen while writing.


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## HSTurning (Dec 20, 2008)

Thank you for the welcome.


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## cdbakkum (Dec 20, 2008)

Lyle, I like the one placed higher on the pen. Carl


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## hebertjo (Dec 20, 2008)

I too vote for the 2/3rds placement. It mimics the cross, I believe the cross bar on the cross is also at 2/3rds, no?


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## Randy_ (Dec 20, 2008)

Lyle:  I like the off-center placement(not sure why); but it is "NOT" a strong preference.  I think it is probably a personal thing and you are going to find that different people have different preferences.  Just keep a couple of both in stock and you will have it covered.


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## lwalden (Dec 20, 2008)

Good eye, John... yes, the crossbar of the cross is centered 2/3rds of the way up the oval, another good data point for going with the 2/3rds up the barrel configuration.


hebertjo said:


> I too vote for the 2/3rds placement. It mimics the cross, I believe the cross bar on the cross is also at 2/3rds, no?


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## akbar24601 (Dec 20, 2008)

Lyle, IMO I think the centered one looks best. It makes the pen look more balanced.


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## Daniel (Dec 20, 2008)

Off center, no question for me.


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## fernhills (Dec 20, 2008)

Even is to generic, 2/3 up is better.


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## toolcrazy (Dec 20, 2008)

Right hand #2. 

But, both are very nice.


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## OKLAHOMAN (Dec 20, 2008)

2/3rd!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## BRobbins629 (Dec 20, 2008)

2/3 is close, but why not go one further and do like Visconti - go with Leonardo's divine proportions, add a specially made caliper to the box and up the price.


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## GaryMadore (Dec 20, 2008)

They both look great but I'll throw my "me too" in with the 2/3 crowd.

When I look at the centered version it makes me think of heraldry in that the cross looks like a device on a knight's shield more than it looks like a religious symbol. Or maybe I'm just weird....

Cheers!

Gary


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## Grizz (Dec 20, 2008)

I like number 5.


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## GaryMGg (Dec 20, 2008)

FWIW:
No doubt in my mind: off-center. I'll expand on what Cav said: try to make it 5/8ths off-center to impose the Golden Mean effect.
I believe that if you measure an absolutely traditional Cross, you'll find the whole thing is based on Golden Means; the transects form a Golden Mean; the horizontal members are 5/8ths as long as the vertical and the horizontal member intersects the vertical member 3/8ths of the way down.
Every cross I make for folks is based on the golden mean. I believe they look better that way than any other ratio.

Cheers,
G


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## leehljp (Dec 20, 2008)

I feel right at home going against the flow - the centered one looks well balanced and different. The other looks too common. For me, it is great to see something different once in a while, especially if it looks great.

IMO, if it were a "desk pen" without the clip, it would be perfectly balanced.


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## Randy_ (Dec 20, 2008)

Gary beat me to it.  3/2 is close to the golden ratio; but 5/3 is better and 8/5 is about as close as you can get without going to crazy decimals which would be  1.6180339887.  
 
If you really want to nail it down, Lyle, why don't you try one at 8/5 and see if it is more pleasing to you>


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## bitshird (Dec 20, 2008)

Not a Profeshinul but I prefer the symmetry of the 2/3rds pen, it just appears more within the flow of it.


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## woodchip (Dec 20, 2008)

I like the 2/3 position because it allows the writer to see it in their hand when being written with.


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## rjwolfe3 (Dec 20, 2008)

I like the first one but the wife likes the 2nd, lol.


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## hunter-27 (Dec 20, 2008)

Forget the centered one stay with the offset.


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## thewishman (Dec 20, 2008)

I just want to express the opinion that that I can't decide which one I like the best.


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## arjudy (Dec 20, 2008)

2/3 is best


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## jttheclockman (Dec 20, 2008)

I like the 2/3 also. I think in this situation you have a cross and a cross is a symbol that needs to raised and in the 2/3 thing you are doing this. If I am not mistaken you look at Eugenes stained glass crosses for the sierra pens he has them 2/3. Any other decal or inlay center would probably be appropriate but the cross needs to be raised. My opinion.


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## cowchaser (Dec 20, 2008)

I will go with 2/3. I feel the centered one pulls my eye to it not allowing me to focus on the entire pen. The 2/3 one I can visually see the entire pen with the cross. Just my thoughts though. I also like photos that are off centered better for the same reason.


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## td (Dec 21, 2008)

Stick to the "Golden Ratio".   It's nature's choice and most people don't know why they prefer it.  (Not quite 2/3 but it's better than 1/2)


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## ldb2000 (Dec 21, 2008)

2/3 is definitly "more aesthetically pleasing" .


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## mikegibs (Dec 21, 2008)

The one on right seems to draw more attention to the cross for me.  Either is really nice, but my eye kept going to the right one.

Mike G.


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## Mack C. (Dec 21, 2008)

My vote would be for the one on the right as well!

I also vote for you showing/telling me how you do that!!


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## VisExp (Dec 21, 2008)

I like the off-center one, but that could just be because I'm off-center :biggrin:


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## hughbie (Dec 21, 2008)

well, just because i'm up so early on a sunday morning.....found your post and for my 2 cents..
go with the offset...


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## mwildes (Dec 21, 2008)

Well, since you asked, my (cough, cough) "professional" opinion agrees that the offset cross is more pleasing: at least to my (cough, cough) "professional" eye.


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## wdcav1952 (Dec 21, 2008)

Nah, I really suck at math! :wink::biggrin::biggrin:



lwalden said:


> Going to go Fibonacci on me, Cav?
> 
> That is an excellent point, and may be just the piece of data she needs in order to feel comfortable. Thanks!


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## MarkHix (Dec 21, 2008)

I got my bosses opinion.....right one.   For what it's worth, I would have chosen that one too.


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## Robert Taylor (Dec 21, 2008)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I too vote for the 2/3rds placement. no physical reason, i just like it and if all things were equal would buy it first.


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## sparhawk (Dec 21, 2008)

The 2/3rds just feels better to me.


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## redfishsc (Dec 21, 2008)

While the 2/3 does look better than the centered blank, I'll also say that it's not the location that makes these pens look sweet--- it's the craftsmanship.

I had to re-read your post, I thought those actually WERE Eagle blanks. I have one made by Eagle, yet unused, and yours are just right. Great work!


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## JimB (Dec 21, 2008)

I don't know why but for me it's definately the 2/3 one although LOML likes the centered one.


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## RONB (Dec 22, 2008)

Another vote for the 2/3 placement. It just look better up higher.


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