# Spelling police



## Malainse (Jun 6, 2008)

Have not posted here in a while... Was 100% turned off by the spelling police on every other post... Received this email today and thought I would share. Do not think it was posted here before ?
-----------------------------------
I'm one of the 55.  Are You? 

If you can raed this, you have a sgtrane mnid too. Can you raed this? Olny 55 plepoe out of 100 can.

I cdnuolt blveiee that I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd what I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno't mtaetr in what oerdr the ltteres in a word are , the olny iproamtnt tihng is that the frsit and last ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can still raed it whotuit a pboerlm. This is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the word as a wlohe. Azanmig huh? 
 If you can raed this forwrad it.


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## 1JaredSchmidt (Jun 6, 2008)

Yep. I can.


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## DocStram (Jun 6, 2008)

Glad to see your back, Mal. Actually, we have long moved on past The Great Spulling Debate.  We're pretty much one big happy family . . . except when some idiot is stupid enough to disagree with me.


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## TBone (Jun 6, 2008)

I can read!

Welcome back.  Don't let it get to you.  Do like I do, blame it on typing.


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## medemt (Jun 6, 2008)

Malainse,

You mean you make spelling misstakes two. The is grate, now there is at leest two of us. I guess you are human also!!

Dan


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## sbell111 (Jun 6, 2008)

Initially, I tried to read that by looking at each word and figuring it out.  I could made it through the first few words with difficulty.  Then I tried to 'scan' it, reading each sentence at quicker and quicker speed.  Surprisingly, as I spead up, it was easier to read.


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## wdcav1952 (Jun 6, 2008)

tolÂ·erÂ·ance â€“noun 1. a fair, objective, and permissive attitude toward those whose opinions, practices, race, religion, nationality, etc., differ from one's own; freedom from bigotry.


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## ed4copies (Jun 6, 2008)

Not bad enough you want us to spill write, now you want "Tolerance" TOO???

Prettty hi standards around hear!!!

Sure glad I lernt how to ignore them!~!!


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## leehljp (Jun 6, 2008)

kono bun o yomimasuka? yasashii desuyo!  [}]


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## karlkuehn (Jun 6, 2008)

> _Originally posted by leehljp_
> 
> kono bun o yomimasuka? yasashii desuyo!  [}]



Wow, that's so weird...you know, I was _just_ thinking that very thing! heh [)]

Don't worry, Cav! We still love you. 

for-give : _verb_  1. To excuse for a fault or an offense; pardon.


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## Malainse (Jun 6, 2008)

> _Originally posted by wdcav1952_
> 
> tolÂ·erÂ·ance â€“noun 1. a fair, objective, and permissive attitude toward those whose opinions, practices, race, religion, nationality, etc., differ from one's own; freedom from bigotry.


You forgot, drinking one handed instead of Two....


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## wdcav1952 (Jun 6, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Malainse_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hey, I start drinking one handed.  When I start spilling too much I switch to two handed!!


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## 1JaredSchmidt (Jun 6, 2008)

yokomoshinhg  hoohomhhchcaas. Heh!


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## rincewind03060 (Jun 6, 2008)

I had no problem reading that, but it really doesn't address my main gripe about casual spelling: incomprehensibility.

Everybody makes typos, everybody forgets (or never knew) how to spell a word. Most misspellings can be read over without a pause, as was so eloquently demonstrated in the quote that started this thread.

Misspellings usually only causes problems for comprehension when the writer gets too casual about spelling and mixes up homonyms. If you confuse "to" with "two" or "too" or type "there" when you meant "their" or "fur" instead of "fir" (especially when discussing pen blank materials) it can make it tough to suss out the meaning of your sentence. If more than one such error occurs per sentence, it can make the sentence nigh on to impossible to understand. Unfortunately, this is a problem that spell checkers can't solve; they see no error in such mistakes.

P.S. I just came close to doing what I was complaining about above. When responding to another thread, I typed in "you're" when I meant "your". Big difference in meaning and very easy to do. Glad I caught it before I posted.


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## maxwell_smart007 (Jun 6, 2008)

A mistake is an opportunity to learn something.  A spelling mistake, if corrected, is an opportunity to learn how to spell correctly.  A grammaticall error, if pointed out, should never be repeated again.  

As an English teacher, I think that spelling is important.  However, as we have just celebrated the life of Nelson Mandela in our school, it's important to note that tolerance is important too!  

So spelling is good.  Tolerance is good.  Moving on is good!


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## TBone (Jun 6, 2008)

> _Originally posted by leehljp_
> 
> kono bun o yomimasuka? yasashii desuyo!  [}]



Yeah?  Well, Oye Como Va to you.   [}]


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## alamocdc (Jun 6, 2008)

> _Originally posted by rincewind03060_
> 
> ... mixes up homonyms.



I like homonyms... especially when ground into grits.[}]


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## rlharding (Jun 6, 2008)

There are misspelled words, which we all do on occasion; then there is poor grammar combined with constant spelling errors. I tend to think the latter speaks to a poor education system and ignorance. Some of the posts are appalling and I don't think it speaks well of the poster.  I don't understand why people think it's OK to write poorly. Some say that this is a pen turning web site; that doesn't mean language goes out of the window. I wouldn't be in the least surprised if display/website text have the same errors. It does affect my choices when I am looking to buy product. To me it's on par with being unable to count. It takes nothing to run a spell and grammar check. If I had kids that came home from school writing in the same way as some of the posts then I would be down banging on the English teacher's door or pulling my kids out of the school.

If corrections offend, rather than shooting the messenger, go take a remedial English class. If corrections irritate enough to stop one from posting then that's one's choice.


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## Ron in Drums PA (Jun 6, 2008)

Has anyone else ever notice the funny corrections spell checkers make?


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## DocStram (Jun 6, 2008)

A Little Poem Regarding Computer Spell Checkers...


Eye halve a spelling chequer
It came with my pea sea
It plainly marques four my revue
Miss steaks eye kin knot sea.

Eye strike a key and type a word
And weight four it two say
Weather eye am wrong oar write
It shows me strait a weigh.

As soon as a mist ache is maid
It nose bee fore two long
And eye can put the error rite
Its rare lea ever wrong.

Eye have run this poem threw it
I am shore your pleased two no
Its letter perfect awl the weigh
My chequer tolled me sew. 

Author Unknown


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## wdcav1952 (Jun 6, 2008)

OMG Al, is this what you are teaching the youth of our nation????

[}]


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## THarvey (Jun 6, 2008)

> _Originally posted by DocStram_
> 
> 
> Glad to see your back, Mal. Actually, we have long moved on past The Great Spulling Debate.  We're pretty much one big happy family . . . except when some idiot is stupid enough to disagree with me.



You mean only some idiot bothers you Doc? [)]


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## ctwxlvr (Jun 6, 2008)

> There are misspelled words, which we all do on occasion; then there is poor grammar combined with constant spelling errors. I tend to think the latter speaks to a poor education system and ignorance. Some of the posts are appalling and I don't think it speaks well of the poster. I don't understand why people think it's OK to write poorly. Some say that this is a pen turning web site; that doesn't mean language goes out of the window. I wouldn't be in the least surprised if display/website text have the same errors. It does affect my choices when I am looking to buy product. To me it's on par with being unable to count. It takes nothing to run a spell and grammar check. If I had kids that came home from school writing in the same way as some of the posts then I would be down banging on the English teacher's door or pulling my kids out of the school.
> 
> If corrections offend, rather than shooting the messenger, go take a remedial English class. If corrections irritate enough to stop one from posting then that's one's choice.
> Ruth



I have to take offense to this statement as there are some me included that have LEARNING DISABILITIES and no matter how much schooling they have they will never be good spellers or writers, many are great artist, actors, scientist, leaders (most are good), and very well learned in other areas, but because of the LD they cannot process the written word as a "normal" person does.


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## stolicky (Jun 6, 2008)

> _Originally posted by DocStram_
> 
> A Little Poem Regarding Computer Spell Checkers...
> 
> ...



That's awesome.  Being an engineer, and the typical bad speller, spell checkers have burned me before if I relied too much on them.  [B)]


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## rlharding (Jun 6, 2008)

Ctwxlrv
half my family (10 siblings) are dyslexic. I know how learning disabilities affect the written word. You appear to have overcome your learning disability. As have I.

This thread is not about the exceptions: people with English as a 2nd language, people with learning disabilities. I would have thought that much was clear since this has been discussed so many times.


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## Rifleman1776 (Jun 6, 2008)

I am one of the less tolerant ones here. I have short patience with those who don't even try to use the spell checker or bother to re-read their posts before sending. I have a touch of dyslexia and frequently transpose letters. Never mind words with double letters, I rarely get those right. I make many errors when I write.  But, I do use spell checker and catch many of those errors. Much of the bad grammar we see here, and on other forums, is a matter just plain laziness. Generally the writings of those with genuine disabilities are obvious. Just as obvious are stupid mistakes made by (lazy) people of normal intelligence with no excuse for not having a basic command of the English language.


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## maxwell_smart007 (Jun 6, 2008)

How about we end the debate here, eh?  I'm sure this will get out of hand in a hurry...Yes, there needs to be more focus on attempting to use the English language proficiently, but there also needs to be tolerance for those who cannot, or have not, developed a grasp of the subtleties of English; as my fiance tells me, having one's grammar corrected constantly gets old in a hurry (ah, the joys of being engaged to a teacher!)  

So here's where I chime out of this discussion...let's not let this debate rage on, else it'll get out of hand, I'm sure...


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## Jarheaded (Jun 6, 2008)

I read this thread before. It was a couple of months ago. Next we will start discussing the beating of dead horses again. Can anyone tell me about Steebar? Why is this blank stuck to my hand? Is this glue supposed to stick to skin too? On that note, I am going to another topic somewhere. I will see you there Andrew.


HaHaHa beating dead horses...what a waste.


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## wolftat (Jun 6, 2008)

There are other disabilities besides learning. There are also social disabilities. Some people that may have overcome their LD, are over compensating to the point of being ED (emotionally disturbed(nothing against you Ed)). I feel that is far more problematic than a few slips with spelling or grammar. When we are on the computer, spelling and grammar may be a big issue to some, but in person, all of that can be forgiven, while rudeness never is.

Yes, I am still out here lurking and laughing.


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## karlkuehn (Jun 6, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Jarheaded_
> 
> I read this thread before. It was a couple of months ago. Next we will start discussing the beating of dead horses again. Can anyone tell me about Steebar? Why is this blank stuck to my hand? Is this glue supposed to stick to skin too? On that note, I am going to another topic somewhere. I will see you there Andrew.
> 
> ...



Hey, who's this 'Eagle' guy I keep hearing about? [][)]

I think there's valid points on both sides, but I lean towards the 'try a little harder' direction myself. There, I committed, now I'm going to go find Andrew and Johnnie.


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## monkeynutz (Jun 6, 2008)

I think all people can be expected to do is their best.  My best may not be as good as someone else's, but that does not make him better then me.  What is interesting is that sometimes it *does* make him a *jackass*.


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## Ron in Drums PA (Jun 6, 2008)

Must be a sign of our times

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D914ES9O0&show_article=1


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## Texatdurango (Jun 6, 2008)

Good grief!  What some people choose to bash others over!


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## tmhawk (Jun 6, 2008)

Irony, definition: person stops posting on IAP because in his own words, â€œWas 100% turned off by the spelling police on every other postâ€ Many, many people begin posting aboutâ€¦.wait for itâ€¦.tah daâ€¦SPELLING. Pro and Con. Riots ensue, people get mad at other people, yelling screaming, CAPITOL LETTERS, OMG. (Yep, more irony) So, guy comes back and tell us he hasnâ€™t posted for a while and why he has not posted andâ€¦..wait for itâ€¦.HE GETS IT ALL STARTED AGAIN.  In the immortal words ofâ€¦someone who was at Woodstock, or something, â€œCome on people now, smile on each other Everybody get together Try to love one another, RIGHT NOW.â€  You know you like each other, so just LET IT GO. (Resentment: taking poison and hoping the other person dies.) For the record, we all have learning disabilities, We are Human. OKAY, (Little League Rules) enough, shake hands, Smile on each other, and go TURN SOME PENS. If spelling were our biggest problem, gas and milk would not cost $4 a gallon, weâ€™d all have more wood than we could turn, we wouldnâ€™t sell our pens people would be lined up begging us for them, every person would just be happy.
About IAP, people I have never met have sent me wood, pen kits, Corian, and given me help and instruction. WHERE ELSE YOU GOING TO GET THAT? (People I've never met have been sent wood and what ever I could to help them out, WHAT KIND OF PLACE IS THIS? It is a good place with good people.) 
â€˜nuff said.


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## DocStram (Jun 7, 2008)

As incredulous as it may seem, spelling problems are not recognized as being an official Learning Disability.  There are seven areas in which a person can be LD:  
Basic Reading Skills  (word recognition)
Reading Comprehension
Math Computation
Math Reasoning
Spoken Language
Written Expression 
and
Listening Skills

As a professional in the field of Special Education I have always been at odds with other professionals who refuse to recognize spelling as a type of learning disability. When I work with someone who can't spell worth a flip, I tell them to let people know that they are "creative spellers".


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## bitshird (Jun 7, 2008)

> _Originally posted by THarvey_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry Doc, I won't post any more, (probably no less either)


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## MesquiteMan (Jun 7, 2008)

The neat thing about the computer is that most of the time your spell checker will fix most all of your errors if you are not too lazy to use it.  If you are using IE, download and install the Google toolbar.  It has pop-up blocking as well as a great spell checker.  The only drawback with the spell checker is you have to run it, it does not run automatically.  As long as you are not to lazy to push an extra button, most all of you spelling will be correct.


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## wdcav1952 (Jun 7, 2008)

Uh Oh, Curtis!!  As the original spelling cop, I never called the spelling challenged lazy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [}] 

(BTW, it should be your spelling, not you spelling!) [}]


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## MesquiteMan (Jun 7, 2008)

Yeah, that may have been a little harsh but with modern technology, there is no reason for grossly misspelled words.  I have lots of spelling errors.  I am a pretty good speller, I just type real fast and have a lot of typos.  I use the spell checker most of the time and it catches most.  Obviously not everything as pointed out above, but most!  When I am too lazy to push the extra button to check the post, I end up with a lot of extra errors.  That is what I meant by being lazy and I am guilty of it on occasion as well.

Here is a screen shot of checking this exact post for those who might be interested.  At the top is the Google toolbar with the spell check button.  Once clicked it then highlights errors in the window in red.  You simply click on the misspelled word and it offers suggestions.


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## Texatdurango (Jun 7, 2008)

You know, the spell checker is only half the battle.  One still has to determine if the word being used is the proper word!

As Ben Henderson mentioned earlier..._"If you confuse "to" with "two" or "too" or type "there" when you meant "their" or "fur" instead of "fir" _ 

Let's say a stranger in town asked if the drugstore was within walking distance and you replied "It's pretty fur down the road from here", some would challenge the spelling even though it's correct!

And I might add, even in this day of total social correctness with everyone being afraid to say what's on their mind because it might offend someone, as mentioned above, there is still such a thing as being just plain ole 100% LAZY with a care less attitude and if the shoe fits, just wear it rather than coming up with a disability, disorder or a third grade teacher to blame it on!


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## markgum (Jun 7, 2008)

yeah; spell check.  I was reviewing resumes at a University work shop; and this young man came up to me with his resume; and I asked what type of work he was looking for and he said "I want to be a Certified Public Accountant".  I looked at his resume and right there on top the "Objective:  To become a Certified Pubic Accountant"  [:I]
  I pointed it out to him; and he said NO ! ! !  I just mailed a copy to all of the Big 5 Accounting firms... [xx(]


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## DocStram (Jun 7, 2008)

Yep, like I said before ..... we're pretty much one big happy family here and we have long moved on past The Great Spulling Debate!


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## Ron in Drums PA (Jun 7, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Texatdurango_
> 
> You know, the spell checker is only half the battle.  One still has to determine if the word being used is the proper word!



Back in the day before spell checkers, we actually had to learn how to check the spelling the old fashion way. One of the tricks a typesetter would use is to read from the bottom up and from right to left. It's easier to spot a misspelled word when you are not reading a sentence.

30 years ago, I was given a task to design a program for a banquet. This was for a very prominent, well loved Doctor. A lot of doctors, surgeons and politicians where to attend. This was a really big shindig. Towards the end of this affair, the Doctor was to be awarded a plaque for his service. In the program there was a line that read "Presentation of Plaque"

I finished the design and typeset the program. Sent a copy to my boss for an approval and after his inspection he forwarded off the person in charge of the affair.

They liked the design and the job was approved. The next day it went to press and we shipped them to the customer.

About a week after the program, I get a package from the doctor that was being honored. I opened it up and it was a framed copy of the program and a little note that said, "Thanks for the chuckle."

Not really sure what he meant, I looked over the program again and then is when I noticed that I used a "g" instead of a "q" in the word plaque.


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## arjudy (Jun 7, 2008)

I can read it.


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## Jarheaded (Jun 7, 2008)

I had a moment to waste, so I decided to pop back here and waste it. One moment wasted, a drop in the bucket. Have a great night and I hope I spelled everything correctly.


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## Dalecamino (Jun 8, 2008)

I have a moment , too ! Gee whiz , I thought they were ALL here to help us . Maybe I missed the literacy exam to become a member of the IAP . SPELL CHECK ? I don't even know where it is ! GOOGLE , slows down my computer , so I dumped GOOGLE ! Is that OK ? Yes it is . What does SPELLING have to do with making PENS ? And wanting to learn how ?


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## leehljp (Jun 8, 2008)

My kids used to ask me "WHY" I (or LOML) were strict about certain things including WHY  we insisted on the correct spelling within context. We replied "We don't set the rules. Business Owners, Company Managers, Organizational requirements, People in charge who
- have certain standards that are demanded or required
- that deal with certain clientele
- know that one letter mistakes are critical
. . . these people set the rules. They have the right to reject you if you don't measure up to their standards. Would you want a substandard brain surgeon working on you? No! These people who hire and fire don't want to alienate others, cause mistakes that cost money because of one wrong letter." People who write with lots of mistakes are not usually disturbed with correct grammar or spellings, but people who do comply are irritated by those who don't.  So the standard is usually the one that drives some customers away! Correct grammar and spelling does not drive people away; incorrect does!

One newly appointed prime minister of Japan once tried to greet Clinton by using English. Unfortunately for Japanese, the pronunciation for the word "How", when read, can be easily misconstrued and spoken in a sound similar to "Who". Therefore the PM greeted Clinton with "Whooo are you?

Pronunciations as well as spellings are critical in many ventures and the ones in charge have every right to demand correct spelling. If anyone does not want to  conform to this strict spelling regiment, that is their perfect right. I have a nephew who does not conform and does well in his work. However, this kind of outlook must realize that they will limited in their job opportunities. 

Having said all of that, I am not going to get into the debate as to whether high and strict standards are a necessity for this forum to exist in a friendly manner. I have my preferences but, IMO, it is a personal choice here.

How is this for spelling:
After WWII, Gen. MacArthur spent a good bit of time in Japan and the Japanese began to respond to him. It became known that his name was being mentioned within the US as a presidential candidate. 

One Banner in Tokyo proudly proclaimed: "We play for your erection."
What a difference in swapping two letters around! Not "to" letters, not "too" letters but "two" letters.


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## Daniel (Jun 8, 2008)

Ever hear of live and let live? If you have some hang up over correct spelling, that is your burden to live with. I have my own.


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## wdcav1952 (Jun 8, 2008)

I am the one who started this problem, and believe me, I regret it.  If I could go back in time, people would still be selling Emporer pens instead of Emperor pens.  I think people might note that I am much more circumspect in my corrections, usually only correcting friends who I know take it in the right spirit.  Well, I do slip occasionally when someone uses bowel when they mean bowl, but I try to restrain myself.

Lee makes some excellent points.  People who make decisions in the world will note incorrectly used language.  That is simply a fact.  Now, what does that have to do with posts on a pen turning site?  On the surface there is little correlation.  However, there is some small equivalence.  The last time this subject came up, I was taken to task by a member who sells pens from his web site.  He stated that he wished to relax while posting on the site and didnâ€™t worry about his grammar and spelling.  He further stated that when he wrote his web site, he took care to use correct grammar and spelling.  I decided to visit his site.  Oddly enough, it was full of the same errors as his â€œrelaxedâ€ posts.  Now, again, what does this have to do with posts on the IAP?  Nothing, if all you are doing is â€œtalkingâ€ with friends online.  When you step into the "real" world, however, mistakes can cause problems.  A single letter or digit written wrong can cause a package to go astray.  An incorrectly placed decimal can really cause problems with your bank account.  Face it, accuracy  is important.

The point I wished to make, and I think Lee was making is this: Good grammar and spelling does not offend people who do not care about grammar and spelling.  Poor grammar and spelling offends those who do care about grammar and spelling.  Lack of care in presentation of a site can make those who care about grammar and spelling wonder if there is the same lack of care in the products offered for sale.

Yes, I know that I have made this point repeatedly.  I will not make it again.  The grammar cop has retired his badge.


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## Rifleman1776 (Jun 8, 2008)

Hank, you example is excellent. Another story that illustrates the point happened when John F. Kennedy visited Berlin, Germany. He did not speak German but had a prepared phonetic speech he read to the crowd. Unfortunately, he mispronounced the phrase "I am a Berliner" and it came out, "I am a jelly doughnut".


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## Rifleman1776 (Jun 8, 2008)

> _Originally posted by DocStram_
> 
> As incredulous as it may seem, spelling problems are not recognized as being an official Learning Disability.  There are seven areas in which a person can be LD:
> Basic Reading Skills  (word recognition)
> ...



Al, it is my (layman's) theory that most of the grammatical and spelling errors we see here, and on other forums, can be directly traced back to grade school. Many never learned in the first place. By the time these people are in middle and higher grades, the basics of English are expected to be used and are no longer taught. I have seen this many times over the years when I would substitute teach in our local schools. What saddens me is that many people never seem to recognize their mistakes and live their lives using a hodge-podge of phonetic gibberish.


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## Ron in Drums PA (Jun 8, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Rifleman1776_
> Al, it is my (layman's) theory that most of the grammatical and spelling errors we see here, and on other forums, can be directly traced back to grade school.



Without a doubt!


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## Mudder (Jun 8, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Rifleman1776_
> 
> Hank, you example is excellent. Another story that illustrates the point happened when John F. Kennedy visited Berlin, Germany. He did not speak German but had a prepared phonetic speech he read to the crowd. Unfortunately, he mispronounced the phrase "I am a Berliner" and it came out, "I am a jelly doughnut".



http://urbanlegends.about.com/cs/historical/a/jfk_berliner_2.htm


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## DCBluesman (Jun 8, 2008)

You know, there are getting to be too many damned prima donnas on the forum.  I, for one, try to improve myself each day.  If someone lets me know I am making a mistake, particularly when it is possible that I will look foolish in public, I appreciate it.  I have typed Emperor incorrectly on more than one occasion and then, to make matters worse, I used copy and paste such that it was misspelled several times.  If not for folks like William, I would look quite foolish to a number of my customers, particularly to one of my newest who is an English Professor at Penn State University.  I understand that some folks have a difficult time with spelling and with grammar.  They should be particularly pleased to have someone help them out.  Instead, a few jerks decide that since it is a weakness of theirs, they choose to put down those who know better.  As my daughter tells me, "The world is full of stupid people."  And there are none so stupid as those who complain about someone trying to spread a little knowledge.


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## DocStram (Jun 8, 2008)

Up until now I have maintained a neutral position regarding "The Great Spelling Debate". However, after reading some of the comments in this thread, as well as the recent IAP discussion that criticized teachers and our public schools . . . I've decided to state my position. 

What does spelling have to do with penmaking and being a member of IAP?  Everything.  It has everything to do with being a member of a civilized society . . . be it your church, a hunting club, IAP, and anything else that has to do with living in a civilized society. Communication is the key to our quality of life. Communication includes your spoken language, written expression, and ability to spell correctly.

It is my opinion, careless spelling is just another reflection of the "dumbing down of our society".  It ranks right up there with guys at baseball games who refuse to take their hats off when the National Anthem is being sung.  Want to know why our kids aren't learning?  It's not their teachers ..... it's their parents who don't read, don't use critical thinking skills, don't challenge themselves in any sort of intellectual fashion and misspell words with reckless abandon. 

Careless spelling is just another example of how our society and quality of life is spiraling downward.


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## fernhills (Jun 9, 2008)

Hi,well i should not say any thing,but maybe i should.I think the spell cops are right to a point.But do they have to correct you in front of the world,Do you not realize that every word typed here is for the world to see.Do a search on Google and see how many forum topics are there for all to read.Stop,think,would a teacher bring a student up to the front of the class and say HA! HA! (gotcha)You took about business and how important,well there is some thing else just as important it is called MANNERS,if you care that much,why not contact that person privately, I have. Carl


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## Mudder (Jun 9, 2008)

Hey Doc?

How about those Pirates?


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## Blind_Squirrel (Jun 9, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Texatdurango_
> 
> Let's say a stranger in town asked if the drugstore was within walking distance and you replied "It's pretty fur down the road from here", some would challenge the spelling even though it's correct!



I believe in these parts it is spelled "fer" e.g. "It's pretty fer down the road from here", [}]


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## Rifleman1776 (Jun 9, 2008)

Scott, the writer of that piece sure took a convoluted route in an attempt to prove a pre-determined conclusion. Fortunately, he was honest enough to say, "In spite of the fact that it's also the correct way to say "I am a jelly donut," no adult German speaker could possibly have misunderstood Kennedy's meaning in context."
This would be a situation similar to when one of our members used the words "waist black" and another member, somehow, was able to translate that piece of butchered English into 'waste block'. Yes, slang and colloquillisms are used in conversation and are often understood by most others.
But, sorry, no brass ring today Scott.


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## Ron in Drums PA (Jun 9, 2008)

> _Originally posted by DocStram_
> 
> Want to know why our kids aren't learning?  It's not their teachers ..... it's their parents who don't read, don't use critical thinking skills, don't challenge themselves in any sort of intellectual fashion and misspell words with reckless abandon.



I hear what you are saying but I half disagree with you. It's the teachers, parents and the school system's fault.

Today, grade school teachers let many spelling errors go by because the child is supposed to feel good about themselves. They don't want to hurt the child's feelings and claim that it is better for the thier esteem. When my oldest started school, I thought this was a passing fad. She is graduating from HS today and I can see that this problem has gotten worse. So many kids today can't spell because they where never taught or corrected when they made mistakes. At least they feel good about themselves. 

High school kids are being taught to pass a test that helps the school look like they are doing a good job. http://www.pde.state.pa.us/a_and_t/site/default.asp  If a teacher deviates from preparing the student for this test they get reprimanded.  I've heard teachers complain they are not allowed to teach their subject anymore. I have seen instances where forcing a student to take this test has been to the detriment of the student. I know of one science teacher that was fired because he dared to teach his kids how to be curious and explore.

Many parents are just to busy to teach their kids today. Sometimes both are busy working just to make ends meet. You can't blame them.  They are trying to keep food on the table and a roof over their heads. Others believe the school system should do their job. You can't blame them either.  They came from a time where teachers actually taught. My wife and I never missed a Parents/Teachers night and it looks like 95% of the parents work at night or believe the teachers are doing a good job.

There are a few teachers that will leave a good lasting impression on a student, and thank heavens for them. But there are too many teachers in our HS that are just waiting for retirement. "You Can't Get Me I Got Tenure"


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## ScribbleSticks (Jun 9, 2008)

Just look at what you are doing....again!!  
This thread started off with:

    "Have not posted here in a while... Was 100% turned off by the spelling police on every other post..."

and:

    "Actually, we have long moved on past The Great Spulling Debate."

We are now into page four of 'moving on'!!!


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## Mudder (Jun 9, 2008)

> _Originally posted by fernhills_
> 
> Hi,well i should not say any thing,but maybe i should.I think the spell cops are right to a point.But do they have to correct you in front of the world,Do you not realize that every word typed here is for the world to see.Do a search on Google and see how many forum topics are there for all to read.Stop,think,would a teacher bring a student up to the front of the class and say HA! HA! (gotcha)You took about business and how important,well there is some thing else just as important it is called MANNERS,if you care that much,why not contact that person privately, I have. Carl




No, no, no, this just won't due.










> _Originally posted by fernhills_
> 
> Hi,(Should be a space here.)well i should not say any thing,(Should be a space here.)but maybe i should.(should be a space here)I think the spell cops are right to a point.(Should be a space here.)But do they have to correct you in front of the world,(Is this a question or a statement? If it is a question perhaps proper punctuation would be in order.)Do you not realize that every word typed here is for the world to see.(Is this a question or a statement? If it is a question perhaps proper punctuation would be in order.)Do a search on Google and see how many forum topics are there for all to read.Stop,think,would a teacher bring a student up to the front of the class and say HA! HA! (gotcha)You took about business and how important,well there is some thing else just as important it is called MANNERS,(Should be a space here.)if you care that much,(Should be a space here.)why not contact that person privately, I have. Carl




HA! HA! (gotcha)  




I think we all need to lighten up a little. 
(No Frank, this is not intended to be translated into "we all need to lose weight")



Edited to correct MY poor spelling and grammar! [8D]


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## ed4copies (Jun 9, 2008)

> _Originally posted by markgum_
> 
> yeah; spell check.  I was reviewing resumes at a University work shop; and this young man came up to me with his resume; and I asked what type of work he was looking for and he said "I want to be a Certified Public Accountant".  I looked at his resume and right there on top the "Objective:  To become a Certified Pubic Accountant"  [:I]
> I pointed it out to him; and he said NO ! ! !  I just mailed a copy to all of the Big 5 Accounting firms... [xx(]



So, did any of the secretaries make him an offer???[8D][8D]


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## fernhills (Jun 9, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Mudder_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



    Thanks, you made my point. Carl


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## DocStram (Jun 9, 2008)

We are hilarious! Gawd, I love this place!!  We're onto 5 pages of rehashing "The Great Spelling Debate" and it doesn't look like it's about to come to an end.  I make a motion that the Acceptable Use Policy be revised as follows:
*
Discussions of politics, religion, and spelling are not allowed. *


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## DCBluesman (Jun 9, 2008)

Hey, Doc...you'd better include word selection, grammar and intelligible sentence/paragraph structure while you're at it. [8D]


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## Mudder (Jun 9, 2008)

> _Originally posted by DCBluesman_
> 
> Hey, Doc...you'd better include word selection, grammar and intelligible sentence/paragraph structure while you're at it. [8D]



All of which I would fail miserably at [8D]


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## ed4copies (Jun 9, 2008)

> _Originally posted by DocStram_
> 
> 
> We are hilarious! Gawd, I love this place!!  We're onto 5 pages of rehashing "The Great Spelling Debate" and it doesn't look like it's about to come to an end.  I make a motion that the Acceptable Use Policy be revised as follows:
> ...



Doc,

YOU, of all people, should CERTAINLY know that we cannot debate the merits of YOUR motion, while we are engaged in debating in the great "Spelling Debate".  So, just sit back and relax.  We can (if you can find a second for your motion), engage in debate on YOUR issue as soon as we have DEFINITELY RESOLVED the "Spelling debate" issue, currently on the floor.

I might recommend, you will have time to buy the chair a beer, which MAY also elevate the standing of YOUR motion, so there is more motion on your motion after the debate on the debate is complete.

GOT IT????????

GOOD!!  Now, get my beer!!!  


THANK-YOU!


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## Jarheaded (Jun 9, 2008)

Oh cwap, It's still going on.


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## DocStram (Jun 9, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Jarheaded_
> 
> Oh cwap, It's still going on.



Is it just me?  Or, has Johnnie been sounding a lot like Elmer Fudd lately???


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## Mudder (Jun 9, 2008)

> _Originally posted by fernhills_
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, you made my point. Carl



While some folks feel it is bad manners to publicly correct the spelling and grammar mistakes of others there are also those who feel that it is also bad manners to subject your fellow forum members to such poor spelling, grammar and punctuation. I guess it has a lot to do with what side of the fence you find yourself on. I'm also quite sure that someone will chime in with "If you don't like what I have to say you don't have to read it". And for that my reply would be "right back at ya!"


Have a sparkling day!


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## alamocdc (Jun 9, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Ron in Drums PA_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I've tried to stay out of this, but as an educator who once taught in the public school system (and as the spouse of someone who still does) I just can't hold my tongue... er, fingers any longer. I agree with both of you actually, but from a slightly different angle. It IS the parent's fault, primarily, and the schools don't help much. But how can they? If the parents do not and will not hold their child accountable, how can the school system? I saw it with my students 20 years ago and I see it with LOML's nearly everyday... only it has gotten worse! Parents have to hold their children accountable. By and large teachers ARE teaching. Yes, there are a few who shouldn't be in the profession, but that's equally true of all professions. It's just that the few we have in the fields of teaching and let's say law enforcement have more visibility. I was one of those who didn't belong in law enforcement and after 3 years I recognized it and got out of the field. Granted I never over stepped my bounds, but it was clearly not the field for me. I just didn't have the "right stuff". But back to teaching. Anybody can stand up before a group of students and impart information, but this isn't teaching. And I can (and have) taught tried and proven teaching techniques to hundreds of would be educators. Does that mean that they can teach? Not in the slightest. Some imparters of information get lucky once in a while and actually reach a student. But a real teacher does it daily. It is a gift. Show me someone who is truly passionate about their field and I'll show you someone who can truly teach (given the tools, of course). Sorry for the rabbit chasing, but this is a subject near and dear to my heart. Anyway, learners have to be held accountable for there incation, as is usually the case. All too often the kids today just don't give a crap. They'd rather not do their work and then cry to mom & dad that the mean ol' teacher is picking on them. So again, how can the school system hold the student accountable for their own learning (or at least the attempt at learning) if parents won't?


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## rdunn12 (Jun 9, 2008)

I have read this post from front to back,you know what I have learned from it?Nothing!Not one thing!I will tell you in a nutshell what is wrong with kids and their learning to spell or anything else.It is discipline(punishment inflicted by way of correction and training),for those of you who don't really understand what that means.I have two kids in public school and I can say from what I have seen it is NOT the school system,or teachers that is causing kids to be the way they are,it is the parents.My kids know that,if they mess up,there will be a nice black leather belt waiting on them,and there won't be any time out crap.Well,o.k. time out WHACK.I see how parents are every day,how they baby them and tell them it's o.k.Well it is'nt o.k.A lot of parents don't believe in spanking their kids.Well I have seen how those who are'nt disciplined turn out,going into schools and killing kids.If I had done something like that(or even thought about it) I had better kill myself,if not my Dad would have done it.I don't think for one minute he would even hesitate to kill me dead for something like that.Sounds bad,but that's the way he is.And another thing,I was always taught that I am responsible for my actions and nobody else is.Everybody wants to blame someone else for their troubles.How about taking a step back and looking at yourself.O.k back to spelling.I mostly overlook spelling errors and keep reading,not really a big deal.Let's all make pens and marvel at how nice they are and forgive each other for our spelling mistakes.It makes me think no less of someone when they don't spell something right,it makes me remember we are all human.AND WE ALL MAKE MISTAKES.

Ronald


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## DocStram (Jun 9, 2008)

> _Originally posted by rdunn12_
> 
> I have read this post from front to back,you know what I have learned from it?Nothing!Not one thing!



There is a whole lot to learn from this thread. It's called "tolerance". The common bond that holds us together is our passion for penmaking.  Tolerance of other's views and beliefs is what keep us from falling apart.


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## rdunn12 (Jun 10, 2008)

> _Originally posted by DocStram_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Ron in Drums PA (Jun 10, 2008)

> _Originally posted by alamocdc_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I believe the three of us are on the same page, we're just expressing our views differently. I'm confidant that if we sat together around a kitchen table we would all be in agreement.

There is one thing I'd like to add. You mentioned that there are _a few who shouldn't be in the profession, but that's equally true of all professions._ </u> 

I totally agree with this, but all professions are not teaching our youth. I feel we should hold people who are teaching our children to a higher level.


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## Ron in Drums PA (Jun 10, 2008)

> _Originally posted by rdunn12_
> 
> I have read this post from front to back,you know what I have learned from it?Nothing!Not one thing!I will tell you in a nutshell what is wrong with kids and their learning to spell or anything else.It is discipline(punishment inflicted by way of correction and training),for those of you who don't really understand what that means.I have two kids in public school and I can say from what I have seen it is NOT the school system,or teachers that is causing kids to be the way they are,it is the parents.My kids know that,if they mess up,there will be a nice black leather belt waiting on them,and there won't be any time out crap.Well,o.k. time out WHACK.I see how parents are every day,how they baby them and tell them it's o.k.Well it is'nt o.k.A lot of parents don't believe in spanking their kids.Well I have seen how those who are'nt disciplined turn out,going into schools and killing kids.If I had done something like that(or even thought about it) I had better kill myself,if not my Dad would have done it.I don't think for one minute he would even hesitate to kill me dead for something like that.Sounds bad,but that's the way he is.And another thing,I was always taught that I am responsible for my actions and nobody else is.Everybody wants to blame someone else for their troubles.How about taking a step back and looking at yourself.O.k back to spelling.I mostly overlook spelling errors and keep reading,not really a big deal.Let's all make pens and marvel at how nice they are and forgive each other for our spelling mistakes.It makes me think no less of someone when they don't spell something right,it makes me remember we are all human.AND WE ALL MAKE MISTAKES.
> 
> Ronald



While I may agree with you about nobody is willing to be responsible for their actions, you scare the hell out of me when I read your thoughts about corporal punishment.

There are studies that show show that when kids are subject to abuse at home, they in turn abuse their children and others as well.

I think you should accept responsibility for your actions.


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## gerryr (Jun 10, 2008)

I agree with Ron, that is probably the most frightening thing I've ever read here.

Our 17 year old son has made more mistakes than I care to count, including totaling 2 cars, but he has never been spanked or otherwise physically abused.  He just finished his junior year in high school with a 4.0 GPA, 99th percentile on ACT and SAT tests, already has 18 college credits.  Should I kill him if he wrecks another car?


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## doddman70 (Jun 10, 2008)

> _Originally posted by gerryr_
> 
> I agree with Ron, that is probably the most frightening thing I've ever read here.
> 
> Our 17 year old son has made more mistakes than I care to count, including totaling 2 cars, but he has never been spanked or otherwise physically abused.  He just finished his junior year in high school with a 4.0 GPA, 99th percentile on ACT and SAT tests, already has 18 college credits.  Should I kill him if he wrecks another car?



I thought this was the great spulling debate[8D]


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## rdunn12 (Jun 10, 2008)

I was not talking about abusing kids.That is not how it was meant at all.I was simply saying that when they know that there are no consequences for the actions they take they seem to have less respect for authority.If they know there are consequences they tend to think a little harder about what they are about to do before they do it.Sorry,it really was'nt meant to sound the way it did.Maybe I should have stepped back and really looked at it before posting.My bad guys.


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## DocStram (Jun 10, 2008)

> _Originally posted by rdunn12_
> 
> I will tell you in a nutshell what is wrong with kids and their learning to spell or anything else.It is discipline(punishment inflicted by way of correction and training),for those of you who don't really understand what that means.I have two kids in public school and I can say from what I have seen it is NOT the school system,or teachers that is causing kids to be the way they are,it is the parents.My kids know that,if they mess up,there will be a nice black leather belt waiting on them,and there won't be any time out crap.Well,o.k. time out WHACK.I see how parents are every day,how they baby them and tell them it's o.k.Well it is'nt o.k.A lot of parents don't believe in spanking their kids.Well I have seen how those who are'nt disciplined turn out,going into schools and killing kids.If I had done something like that(or even thought about it) I had better kill myself,if not my Dad would have done it.I don't think for one minute he would even hesitate to kill me dead for something like that.Sounds bad,but that's the way he is.
> Ronald



I was really disturbed by this post when I first read it last night.   I decided to walk away from the computer rather than saying something that I would regret. Well, as the night went on I thought about it more. I've decided to speak up. So here goes ....... 

Ronald . . . I was one of those kids who had a dad like you. He never  hesitated to spare the belt . . . or paddle . .  or a fist if one of those other "tools" wasn't nearby.  I hope your kids don't grow up hating you as much I hated him. In later years, he apologized for his anger. It was difficult to forgive him. But, he did teach me an important lesson . . . how not to treat my kids when they make a mistake.


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## rdunn12 (Jun 10, 2008)

You are probably right Doc.Maybe I need to step back and take a long look at myself rather than criticizing others.This has been a real eye opening experience reading these replies.


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## Ron in Drums PA (Jun 10, 2008)

> _Originally posted by rdunn12_
> 
> You are probably right Doc.Maybe I need to step back and take a long look at myself rather than criticizing others.This has been a real eye opening experience reading these replies.



I'm happy to hear that Ronald.

I have two teenage daughters and I can honestly say I can't think of a single incident that caused me to want to spank them, let alone hit them with a belt.  

But this is not to say that I never gotten angry at them, and the rare occasion that I have lost my temper, I have always left the room and returned when I was calm.

BTW - My oldest just graduated HS, in August she will start college as a sophomore. I never hit her, but, there has been times she lost privileges.


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## Jarheaded (Jun 10, 2008)

> _Originally posted by rdunn12_
> 
> I have read this post from front to back,you know what I have learned from it?Nothing!Not one thing!I will tell you in a nutshell what is wrong with kids and their learning to spell or anything else.It is discipline(punishment inflicted by way of correction and training),for those of you who don't really understand what that means.I have two kids in public school and I can say from what I have seen it is NOT the school system,or teachers that is causing kids to be the way they are,it is the parents.My kids know that,if they mess up,there will be a nice black leather belt waiting on them,and there won't be any time out crap.Well,o.k. time out WHACK.I see how parents are every day,how they baby them and tell them it's o.k.Well it is'nt o.k.A lot of parents don't believe in spanking their kids.Well I have seen how those who are'nt disciplined turn out,going into schools and killing kids.If I had done something like that(or even thought about it) I had better kill myself,if not my Dad would have done it.I don't think for one minute he would even hesitate to kill me dead for something like that.Sounds bad,but that's the way he is.And another thing,I was always taught that I am responsible for my actions and nobody else is.Everybody wants to blame someone else for their troubles.How about taking a step back and looking at yourself.O.k back to spelling.I mostly overlook spelling errors and keep reading,not really a big deal.Let's all make pens and marvel at how nice they are and forgive each other for our spelling mistakes.It makes me think no less of someone when they don't spell something right,it makes me remember we are all human.AND WE ALL MAKE MISTAKES.
> 
> Ronald



I have dealt with a lot of violence in my life, but I always walked away before I would pick up a hand to any of my kids, no matter what they have done. They are more responsive when I get quiet, and the quieter I get the better they act. If I really need to strike someone, I would rather find someone that can give me a good fight, it's a lot more satisfying for me. Some day you will be the smaller, weaker one AGAIN, then what? I hope you can change your ways. This is a mistake that you need to fix.


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## karlkuehn (Jun 11, 2008)

Holy cow, took a break from the thread for a few days, come back and we're talking about corporal punishment? What the harry, Larry?! [:0]

You know what?

I've mentioned this before, and I will again. Like many in my generation, I was raised by a great father, and yes, he spanked when we needed (as young boys often do) to learn our boundaries, black and white, no grey area, no time out, no taking away the X-Box for a month. It wasn't about anger, it wasn't about abuse, it was about me learning, RIGHT NOW, what's acceptable and what's not so we could move on and get back to fishing or riding motorcycles or getting wood or playing ball.

My dad balanced that discipline by spending TONS of time with us, talking and teaching how the decisions we make form us as young men and adults later on in life. It wasn't about hitting the younger, smaller neighbor kid with sticks (which I got spanked for), it wasn't about disrespecting and back-talking my mom or other elders (spanked), it wasn't about stealing a pack of life-savers from the local store where they knew me and my family name (ouch!), and it wasn't about throwing a rock through one of the neighbor's windows just to see if I could do it (again, with the spanking). It was about teaching me that it only takes one small, stupid decision that will follow us and scar us for the rest of our lives if we choose wrong, which is the reality that all of us face every day. It was about reinforcing the ideals that he'd spent so much time teaching us through the years, and proving to us that there are clear and present consequences for every stupid or negligent decision that we make all through life.

To this day, no matter how many times I lose my temper or rational judgment in a given situation, when I feel like my only option is to do something that's just not allowed by society, or, more importantly, my dad, I step back and look at what the outcome would be and _usually_ make the best decision that won't get my backside tanned, literally or figuratively.

I'm so sick of hearing about how spanking is abuse or whatever. You know, any REAL parent hates spanking their kids. That's part of the job, no one wants to do it, we all hate it, but there are times when it's needed, I'll take that belief to my grave. I'm proud that I raised my kids the way my dad raised me. Clearly defining the rules and regulations of being a proper human being is extremely important during the formative years, and I don't care what anyone says, unless your kid is a social and intellectual genius, they aren't going to have the ability to sit down, shut up and learn through namby-pamby half hour lectures that define the finer points of acceptable behavior. Later on in life, unless they're taught how serious a lot of consequences can be, they're going to be looking for that soft love, and lemme tell you if you haven't figured it out yet, there ain't no soft love in life. 

When someone pisses you off, just walk away, because that's harder than raising a fist and 'settling' it right then. When you really want something but don't have the money, walk away. Earn it, earn everything. Work hard, play hard, love your friends, excuse your enemies when possible, crush them when not. When I have a choice in business to do something shady (which is always the easy choice) or do something with integrity, I choose integrity (which is always the harder choice). When life has worn me thin, the easy, sneaky, stupid, dishonest, lazy choice always looks tempting, but my dad would whup my ass. To this day, when I walk outside the lines, he whups me. No, I don't go cut a switch and he doesn't yank his belt out, but he doesn't baby me, either, and I'll always respect him, admire him, try to be like him, and I value his input in my life.

Had I not had that firm foundation of right and wrong instilled in me when I was throwing sticks or stealing Life Savers, I'd be making the easy choice. Instead, I think about what my Dad taught me, suck it up, man up, cowboy up, stiffen my neck or upper lip, keep my nose to the grindstone, put my shoulder to the wheel (whatever metaphor you use), and I forge ahead into the path less traveled, and it makes me a stronger, better, more tempered and refined man. I'm proud of that.

Are my beliefs rare? They're getting that way, I'd suspect. It's much easier as a parent to listen to someone tell you that there's an 'easier, more loving' way to discipline than spanking, but many times that easier way is also the way that doesn't get the job done right. I've coached enough "time-out Timmy's" over the years to tell you, it may be easier for you, but every other adult in their lives have to take up the slack by expending unnecessary levels of patience and time that should be reserved for kids who really need it, and many of the truly needy ones end up slipping through the cracks, ending up monsters that live and give lifetimes of pain and suffering.

Parenting is frigging hard, and I don't mean hard like mowing the lawn or paying the mortgage, it's not a do-it-right-once thing. It's about a lifetime of always making the tough decisions that sometimes rip your heart out, and it's about spending enough real time with your kids to show them that what you have to say is to be respected, not feared or ignored.

A parent should never be angry when they spank, their hearts should be aching. Constantly avoiding heartache at the expense of a child not learning early boundaries will most of the time lead to heartbreak later on.

Whew. Okay, let the flogging begin.

I would like to go on record as saying that I was never spanked for misspelling any words.


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## rlharding (Jun 11, 2008)

Karl, raised in an extremely violent household you move me to tears. Thanks for the hope.


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## el_d (Jun 11, 2008)

Bravo Karl. 
  It is VERY hard spanking the fruit of you loin. I have four kids  and they have all been in time out and x box taken away but it seems like they pay more attention when they see dad in pain for spanking them. "Time out" is so easy. I was raised "spare the rod spoil the child". 
  I was raised by a good man who was raised by a good mother who wasnt the "huggy" type, so in turn he wasnt he "huggy" type. I was his first born boy and he wanted me to be a man right from the start. I got alot of "walk it off"s and "men dont cry". I got a whole lot of whuppins for things I thought were unfair,at the time, now I can see where he was coming from. Like the time I shoved the bratty neighbor kids hand in dog poo just because he was a pain.....
  I wasnt the easiest kid to raise but he kept me on the right track. I thank God that I was blessed with two daughters first that "softened me up" and now I can hug my sons and my Father. And thats a big deal in my family.
  He helped me become the man I am today. He taught me patience, understanding and how to LET THINGS GO..........


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## alamocdc (Jun 11, 2008)

Great post, Karl! And I think you captured the essence of corporal punishment. Discipline (regardless of form) must be 2 things, and both are critical. The first is balanced. Discipline w/o love isn't discipline, it's abuse (again, regardless of form). By the same token, love w/o discipline isn't love. I'm not sure what I'd call it, but it isn't love. The second is consistent. If you discipline a child only 1 or 2 out of 4 times for an infraction, that isn't consistency. The once or twice they get away with it is worth (to them) the other consequences when they don't. And threatening discipline is nothing short of a joke... and they know it. Don't threaten, do.


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## rjwolfe3 (Jun 11, 2008)

Thank you, Karl.  You words have inspired me and reaffirmed that I am raising my own kids right and that I was raised right.


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## winpooh498 (Jun 11, 2008)

I agree wholeheartedly with Karl! Parenting is the hardest thing in the world! He was raised the way we were raised, and the way we are raising our children. There is a time and a place for different forms of discipline, BUT all forms MUST be surrounded with love and guidance. There is a difference between abuse and discipline, and Karl hit that point right on the head.


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## DocStram (Jun 11, 2008)

Do you hit your boss when he assigns you a job that you don't like?  How about your wife ..... when she doesn't do something you want her to do? Did you paddle her?  Or, maybe your parents come for Sunday dinner and your father says something you don't like ... are you going to spank him? 

If it's not acceptable to hit another adult . . . then why is it alright to hit  a child?


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## Paul in OKC (Jun 11, 2008)

I haven't read a lick of this thread until the last post on the home page and thought, what has this got to do with spelling? Only read back to Karl's post. AMEN. WELL SAID. BRAVO.
 Needless to say, I agree, and excellently put, Karl.  I was spanked as a kid, by parents, and in school when needed. And I spank my kids when needed, probably to few times, actually.
 You are right, it can never be out of anger. I talk to my children before  (which they usually already know!), to go over the reasons, and about honor and respect for others or their belongings, and after.


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## loglugger (Jun 11, 2008)

Karl, well stated.


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## loglugger (Jun 11, 2008)

Al, by the time you are old enough to be a boss or wife you know or should know right from wrong, kids need to learn this or they don't make bosses, wifes or husbands worth a darn. I think Karl has it right.
As far as spelling goes there are so many things more important than a few missed spelled words.
Bob



> _Originally posted by DocStram_
> 
> Do you hit your boss when he assigns you a job that you don't like?  How about your wife ..... when she doesn't do something you want her to do? Did you paddle her?  Or, maybe your parents come for Sunday dinner and your father says something you don't like ... are you going to spank him?
> 
> If it's not acceptable to hit another adult . . . then why is it alright to hit  a child?


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## Ron in Drums PA (Jun 11, 2008)

Nice piece of writing Karl.

I do have one question for you...

When was the last time you used a black leather belt to hit your kids?


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## jeff (Jun 11, 2008)

This topic has gone way into the weeds. Locked.


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