# Decal, what did I do wrong



## soligen (Jan 11, 2011)

Here is a pic of my first decal attempt (on antler).  The decal is quite noticable under the CA.  A pic doesn't really show it well - it just looks like the area around the decal is rougher then the rest, but the issue is under the surface.  

So, what did I do wrong? any thoughts?

Thanks


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## G1Pens (Jan 11, 2011)

Looks to me like the decal did not "set" on the antler. I would do a few coats of CA before applying the decal.


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## arioux (Jan 11, 2011)

Did you seal the antler with CA before applying the deal.  Looks like the antler was a little rough and the decal material just took it's form.


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## Gary Beasley (Jan 11, 2011)

A peel and stick decal? Issue was probably the adhesion of the sticker was not super tight even though it stuck well. The adhesive is comparitively thick and needs rubbing in to get complete contact. Even then it may have problems. Did you use thin CA as your first coat?
Best quality is going to be the water transfer type described here and there in the forums and I'm sure folks experienced in that will drop in and share some better knowledge with you. Good luck!


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## Drstrangefart (Jan 11, 2011)

I agree with getting some thin CA down BEFORE you put the decal on. I've done dry rub-on transfers, plain old stickers and clear stickers and they all like thin CA first.


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## renowb (Jan 11, 2011)

Maybe did not get the bubbles out first and making sure it is completely flat and dry.


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## soligen (Jan 11, 2011)

Its a waterslide decal. I did put CA down first, but only gave it a quick hit with MM and I doubt it was fully smooth. I'll go through my regular MM routine like I was finishing the pen and try again.

I wasnt sure if it was that or too much bonder, but seems to be a consensus here 

Thanks


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## aggromere (Jan 11, 2011)

I agree with all that.  Make sure you have a completely smooth surface on which to apply the decal.  Use the water slide decals, clear or white, depending on what you are doing.  I use a wet paper towel or my fingers to press out all the air bubbles and get the decal firmly in place and make sure the edges are smooth.  This takes a good bit of water being put on the surface and i would let the decal dry overnight before putting a finish on it.  I use thin CA only.  It may take 10 coats of thin to completely cover the decal and make it impervisous to sanding with micromesh.


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## soligen (Jan 12, 2011)

Second attempt was an improvement, but still not good enough.  So, I just turned it off and put on attempt 3 (attempt 3 not counting crinkled and backwards decals lol).

Hopefully 3rd time is the charm.  I just wish I got more than one try per day.

This last time I wiped some decal glue onto the blank from waste parts of the deal, then balanced a good bead of water on top of the blank and applied the decal through the bead.  It looks promising, so fingers are crossed


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## soligen (Jan 13, 2011)

Ok, this is frustrating. Third time was not the charm. Looking at the decal right after application I thought I had it, but no. After finishing it is no better than attempt 2.

So, I have a couple questions.

1) Is it really possible for the decal to not be visible, or are my expectations too high?

2) Could CA outgassing be causing an issue? No mention of a waiting period in the research I did, so just wondering.


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## AceMrFixIt (Jan 13, 2011)

I don't ca over the decal till it is good and dry, wait overnite. Most of mine are well hidden when finished. How many ca coats are you putting on?


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## soligen (Jan 13, 2011)

i waited 24 hours.  I didnt count the coats, but lots


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## KDM (Mar 3, 2011)

Hmmm... thought this thread was going to give me an answer tot eh same question. I'm using clear waterslide decals. I can also clearly see the border of the transfer. My surface is completely smooth before application. Then I go through about 8 layers of CA and I can still see the border quite clearly.

I have an additional problm. I've got laser printable decals. The laser ink seems to rub off when applying CA glue!! Even if I give it a good few coats of acrylic spray varnish first!


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## wouldentu2? (Mar 3, 2011)

I have done a number of these and have found you must use a light wood such as a soft maple to usually not see the edges.

If you are looking for perfection you need to use a vinyl decal such as temporary tattoos that are self sticking.


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## AceMrFixIt (Mar 3, 2011)

*Decals*

I have had pretty good luck with decals so far. I sell more pens with them than without.


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## G1Pens (Mar 3, 2011)

I assume you created the decal?

There are a couple things that will cause the decal to not disappear under the CA. If the layer of "fixative" on the decal when you created it is too thick then the decal does not have the flexibility to settle into any texture on the surface you apply it to. Also, even on a perfectly smooth surface, the thicker the decal film (with fixative) the more likely it is to show up under the CA.

Another thing is the gloss on the surface of the decal vs the gloss on the surface of the pen. It has been my experience so far that if the CA is not polished and the decal is glossy it tends to show up more. You can either MM the surface to a gloss before applying the decal or use a flat clear when sealing the decal....kinda depends on the final finish you are trying to achieve.

How long are you waiting between applying the decal and finishing the pen. I always wait at least 24 hours.


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## soligen (Mar 3, 2011)

I think I was washing too much of the glue away with too much water adn too much soak time.  I finally got an acceptable result, but it took a number of tries.

I finally did a minimal soak time, then put just a speck (much much less than a drop) if water on the blank before putting the decal over it.  I also pressed it down with a dry paper towel (press, not rub) instead of trying to use water to smooth it out.

I have the feeling this might be a little liek a CA finish.  Everyone does it different and you have to find what works for you.


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## larryc (Mar 3, 2011)

I find the method described in this YouTube video from one of the IAP members (ribanett) works real good.


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## SGM Retired (Mar 3, 2011)

AceMrFixit,

Rick,  How close do you trim decal edge to letters?  Do you leave a good border 1/16 or 1/8 inch?  Gary


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## ribanett (Mar 3, 2011)

G1Pens said:


> I assume you created the decal?
> 
> There are a couple things that will cause the decal to not disappear under the CA. If the layer of "fixative" on the decal when you created it is too thick then the decal does not have the flexibility to settle into any texture on the surface you apply it to. Also, even on a perfectly smooth surface, the thicker the decal film (with fixative) the more likely it is to show up under the CA.
> 
> ...


 
As Gary said above, The fixative needs to be as thin as possible for two reasons.

1. A thick decal will not "flow" around the barrel as easy as a thin decal. Also, with a thick decal you are more likely to have a rough edge when you trim the decal. The rough edge will be harder to hide in finishing.

2. The thicker the decal, the more you have to build up the finish around it to hide it. Polish the undercoat to a hi-gloss. 



larryc said:


> I find the method described in this YouTube video from one of the IAP members (ribanett) works real good.


 
Larry thanks for the plug. I have written an article on applying water-slide decals to rifle cartridges. Tom posted it to the Lib along with a link to my YouTube video. http://content.penturners.org/articles/2011/Applying Decals to Rifle Cartridges.pdf


As with so many things in penturning. There are a thousand ways of applying decals. You need to find the 1001 way that works for you. 
Trial and Error is the only way to find it.
Good Luck and don't quit until you find it.


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## Grizz (Mar 3, 2011)

soligen said:


> Here is a pic of my first decal attempt (on antler).  The decal is quite noticable under the CA.  A pic doesn't really show it well - it just looks like the area around the decal is rougher then the rest, but the issue is under the surface.
> 
> So, what did I do wrong? any thoughts?
> 
> Thanks



Check out my blog here.  It was done a few years back.  http://lumberjocks.com/Kerux/blog/3811


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## Texasbeachbum (Mar 5, 2011)

On the lazer printed decals I have found if you will print the image reversed then soak the decal in hot water and apply direct to a smooth surface they seem to work better. That makes the ink on the bottom so it don't smear when you apply the CA. When the decal goes through the lazer printer it heats it up a lot and make the film a little more brittle. The hot water makes them more pliable.


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## leestoresund (Mar 5, 2011)

Try reducing the amount of decal by cutting it as close to the lettering/image, etc. as you can before you transfer it to the blank.
From your picture it looks like you have a fair amount of acreage surrounding the characters of your decal.
The smaller the area the less there is to attract the eye.

YMMV.

Lee


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## AceMrFixIt (Mar 5, 2011)

SGM Retired said:


> AceMrFixit,
> 
> Rick, How close do you trim decal edge to letters? Do you leave a good border 1/16 or 1/8 inch? Gary


 
I would say 1/8 to 1/4. That way if the edge turns under I have room to trim it off. As far as soaking, I dip mine enough to soak the back( just a few seconds), then lay it on a paper towel for a few min. The back will soften the glue. If left in water too long it slides off the backing in the water.


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## trapper (Mar 21, 2011)

Hi well im no expert hence my request for advise tooo. Ihave used a product called lazertrans admittedly on boxes... going to try it on some pens. Their instructions say to coat any "unsealed" surface such as wood with turpentine prior to applying the decal this effectively etches the decal to the surface. They also say it must be turpentine and NOT white spirit or other substitute. This certainly worked on atray i made but no experience with pens. One point these transfers dry with awhite background that can be rendered transparent using any oil based varnish as a finnish ... not sure what effect ca would heve. Hope this helps
Steve


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