# carbide tools?



## makaiolani (Apr 13, 2011)

Hi guys,

I'm trying to turn some really hard stuff and I was wondering what kind of tool to use.  How are the easy tools carbide tips?  Can they last through some tough stuff?  Any suggestions?


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## el_d (Apr 13, 2011)

I highly recommend the Woodchuck Aaron. 
 Got mine from Ken and haven't used anything else since. If you have tough stuff (harder that Blue lapiz tru-stone) get a few extra inserts.


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## Russianwolf (Apr 13, 2011)

The carbides will eat steel if you ask it too. With mutiple edges, a fresh edge is close by and some use a diamond hone to freshen up the edges a few times.


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## wood-of-1kind (Apr 13, 2011)

What is this "hard" stuff that you are trying to turn? I also provide carbide tools/inserts
and may be able to help to answer your question.

Carbide tools are more effective than HSS in the turning process especially towards dense material and is best turned at high RPM.


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## bitshird (Apr 13, 2011)

Aaron, we have several carbide insert tools for all types of work, and at a reasonable price as well,
Carbide will cut harder material cleaner and faster than HSS and the edges last on the order of 500 to 1000 times  as long as HSS tooling, we can also make a tool to your specs. up to 36 inches long with either Square, radius or two sizes of round insert, and one tool that uses BOTH square, radius and round inserts. sorrry the one that uses all the inserts isn't up on the website yet,  I can't keep one in stock long enough to get a picture of it. 
Ken


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## Fibonacci (Apr 13, 2011)

What is the name of the "universal" tool, for lack of another title?

How much for one?


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## IPD_Mr (Apr 13, 2011)

The new one that holds the 18mm round and the 15mm R2 and R4 is called the Uni-Tool.  :biggrin:


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## HSTurning (Apr 13, 2011)

Aaron
I have a Hunter Tool and love it. 
Any carbide tool is a great tool to have.
The biggest difference between the "Woodchuck" or clones and the Hunter is that the Woodchucks work like a scraper and the Hunter is a cupped insert and cuts into the material.


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## EricJS (Apr 13, 2011)

Aaron, I'm another believer in Ken's "Woodchuck."

I fought my way through a piece of tru-stone one day and spent most of my time at the sharpener with my HSS Sorby tools. I've now done 4 tru-stone blanks and at least 5 other various blanks and I'm still on the same cutting edge with the Woodchuck. 

You can't imagine how long those cutters will maintain their edge! I like the size & shape of it, too. Very easy for me to control.


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## PenMan1 (Apr 13, 2011)

The Woodchuck Pen Pro with the R2 edge is always my "goto" tool. The cut is so smooth that many times (not on aluminum or brass) I can skip right to micromesh.


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## Dudley Young (Apr 13, 2011)

I favor the Rotondo and the Skogger from  Wood of 1 Kind.


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## hunter-27 (Apr 13, 2011)

I have a Skogger and Woodchuck, both are used regularly for "hard" materials.  Both are great.  I've never encountered anything they would not cut including a nail that was hidden within a block one time.  That was a serious "wake up" moment but it did cut through it cleanly.


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## panini (Apr 15, 2011)

The Woodchuck Pen Pro "ROCKS"....Should have invested when Ken first came out with it....


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## ctubbs (Apr 15, 2011)

I use the Woodchuck Bowl Pro for my pen and other turning.  The Pen Pro is shorter but I prefer the longer Bowl Pro for better control.  I have turned well over 100 pens with the first edge and find no difference in the cutting ability.  I do sand but only because I like to assure the finish, but I only use 400 grit on the blank.  The Woodchuck is a go to tool.
Charles


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## KenV (Apr 15, 2011)

Only advise on carbide --- stay away from the metal working or planer blade inserts.  They are cheap and function at about 60% of what an insert from one of the cited sources use.  

I have a couple of Ken's tools with spare inserts and use them steadily.  The FatBoy 18 mm round cutter is new and has some promise as a shear scraping (cutting fine whispy shavings on curved surfaces) when held as an angle.  

I really like the cup shaped cutters (Hunter or Elininator) for rounding and rough shaping acrylic blanks in chippy mixes --- Especially snake skin blanks that tend to buzzz and chip.

Wood including snakewood, ebony, etc -- hard to beat the Pen Pro.


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## Knucklefish (Apr 15, 2011)

Definately see Ken Ferrell, he is da man! He made me a bowl turning tool that holds ALL the inserts! I am new to bowls and I wasn't sure what to get so he made me this new "uni-tool" and it is FANTASTIC. I turned my first two bowls over the weekend and they came out great (for a beginner that is). NO doubt worth every penny I paid him for it. Lastly, I can use the same inserts on my woodchuck I got from him (also wonderful!).


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## micharms (Apr 15, 2011)

+1for the Rotondo. I just spent some time this morning turning some alabaster and soapstone. The Rotondo handle them without breaking a sweat.

Michael


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## glycerine (Apr 15, 2011)

KenV said:


> Only advise on carbide --- stay away from the metal working or planer blade inserts. They are cheap and function at about 60% of what an insert from one of the cited sources use.
> 
> I have a couple of Ken's tools with spare inserts and use them steadily. The FatBoy 18 mm round cutter is new and has some promise as a shear scraping (cutting fine whispy shavings on curved surfaces) when held as an angle.
> 
> ...


 
How would you tell the difference?  I thought that all of the carbide inserts were originally made as planer knives.


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## Rob73 (Apr 15, 2011)

I just bought my first carbide from http://eddiecastelin.com/products_and_services little over a week ago.

So far I've just used the 'round' inset and I love it.  It's a little small but I mostly do small turnings so it works well for me.  My sanding time has dropped considerably using the round as a finish cutter on acrylics. I can pretty much jump right into plastic finishing sanding kit pads.  Going to try it on corian today.  I'm hoping it does just as well. 

I also purchased the 1/2" bar and insets but haven't had a chance to use those yet.  I still have to turn myself some handles as well, but I was so pumped up that I just been using the round inset with no handle.


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## KenV (Apr 15, 2011)

Jeremy asked


"How would you tell the difference?  I thought that all of the carbide inserts were originally made as planer knives."


You ask about the source and providence.   The world of carbide has changed a lot over the last several years.   There are capabilities to get better (described in various marketing terms) finer grained carbide formulations, specific relief angles, and very sharp edges -- and to get this in smaller production runs.  

Most all the mass produced carbide inserts for metal working do not have the edges and relief angles to work with wood most effectively.  Most of those tooling choices are based on lowest cost including labor for a machinist and the tool and die support staffing in a machine tool operation.  The inserts for the spiral planer heads get better, but have a different set of design parameters and need to handle more impact and higher speed contacts than a lathe tool.  

Try some different tools and note the feel of the tools and the surfaces left behind.  Better cutters are like the difference between scary sharp tools and "could be sharper" tools.   You get your best work with the scary sharp tools -- especially with the finish cuts.  

Note that there is a difference between the cup (Hunter and Eliminator Style) tools and the flatter tools that do more shear scraping.    They handle differently and feel differently.  

Rob -- I have not used Captain Eddie's inserts --   I looked and his are priced about twice as high as the planer blades.  

By same measure there are those who try to reshapen inserts.  I gave it a run with a hand hone and observed that they were about 60% as effective of a new insert.   60% is in the "could be sharper" range and I get more enjoyment from the really sharp tooling.

Get one of Ken Ferrell's inserts and give it a spin.   My experience is that Ken is selling inserts that are towards the upper end of the performance.  (I have compared his to those sold by EZ Tools and find Kens were performing in a similar range of situations).  Take note and compare surfaces in similar woods -- and let us know the difference if any.  


You will have to make your own choices ---  I like to turn with really sharp tooling and do not like sanding all that much.


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## Rob73 (Apr 15, 2011)

KenV said:


> Jeremy asked
> Rob -- I have not used Captain Eddie's inserts --   I looked and his are priced about twice as high as the planer blades.



Not sure about prices on planer blades.  When I was looking for carbide tool I looked through forum and found a couple sources and looked at the common wood turning suppliers.  

It seemed most were around 80 bucks a tool with 1 insert.  I got the tool steel already cut/tapped from him for two tools.  3 round inserts and the others (haven't tried those yet)  So I can't really complain, I would rather have the two tools + inserts then just the single one for a higher investment.  This 'hobby' is turning into a damn money pit.  Though granted I do have to turn my own handle, but that no big deal for me.   I believe he says in one of his videos if you can find inserts at a better price that he would match.  I'm not to worried about it at the moment though I"m just happy to have something sharp lol.


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## Garry Hirsch (Apr 18, 2011)

I'm considering these tools, from the videos they seem to be pretty good and priced fair.

http://www.harrisonspecialties.com/...&Store_Code=HS&Category_Code=LatheAccessories


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## corian king (Apr 18, 2011)

I am not saying anything bad about anyone else's tools but I am hooked on Peter's
( wood-Of-1kind) rotondo.I have had it a little over a year and I use it for 90% of my turning.try this link-http://www.wood-of-1-kind.webs.com/  You will be happy you did get a carbide tool no matter who it comes from.
JIM


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