# Sanding Marks In Pen



## tgraytn (Nov 30, 2009)

I was working on an African Blackwood pen Sunday afternoon and experienced what appeared to be sanding marks in the finished product.  Here is the process that I used:

1.  Sanded wood while turning on the lathe with 400 and 600 grit sandpaper.  I stopped the lathe both times and sanded lengthwise to prevent the sanding marks.

2.  Applied 4 coats of thin CA with the lathe turning at appx. 500 RPM with a Scott Xtreme Rag paper towel (purchased from Home Depot-they come 200 to a roll and are in a cardboard dispenser box)

3.  Sanded while lathe was turning with 1000 grit sandpaper and then stopped the lathe and sanded lengthwise.

4.  Applied 6 coats of Medium CA at 500 RPM (sanding between every 2nd coat) 

5.  Wet sanded at 500 RPM and lengthwise with each micro mesh from 800 to 12000.

6.  Polished with "I can't believe this finish" polish.

The light scratches appear to be from the towel and in the CA as the wood blanks were very smooth before I started applying the CA.  I applied the CA by putting several drops onto the paper towel (in a puddle) and with the lathe spinning at 500 RPM went from right to left 2 times on the blank, letting each coat dry thoroughly before proceeding to the next coat.

The outdoor temp. was 74 degrees and 52% humidity.  The temp inside of my shop was 72 and the humidity was at 50%.  It is a very controlled atmosphere (heating, cooling and dehumidifier if needed).

By the way, the gloss was phenomenal!

I WELCOME andy and all thoughts and suggestions.


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## 1080Wayne (Nov 30, 2009)

Tom
  In my experience , it is very difficult to remove sanding marks by lengthwise sanding while the blank is on the lathe , particularly near the ends . Your ability to see the marks varies a lot with the angle of incidence of the light source . Direct overhead is poor - low angle is best . You may also see differences between daylight , incandescant and fluorescent . Try taking a piece on which you see scratches and looking at it under different lighting conditions . 

     To be sure of no scratches , my old eyes need to look at them under a 5 inch dia 3 diopter lens . Again , low angle lighting - the fluorescent tube surrounding the lens is too direct for very fine scratches . 

   And if you want to be really sure , only lengthwise sanding after the above steps have been done after 600 grit . 

   Wayne


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## RussFairfield (Dec 1, 2009)

That high gloss is probably magnifying the scratches from the 400 grit in the Blackwood. Try sanding the wood to the same 12,000 Micro-Mesh before applying the finish. 

Blackwood has a tendency to scratch easily. You might also wet-sand the wood using s little wax as a lubricant.


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## Displaced Canadian (Dec 1, 2009)

African blackwood is a cool wood to work with but it can be a little contrary. I sand with micro mesh then wipe it with acetone to remove the oils.


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## tgraytn (Dec 1, 2009)

Thanks to all!  Much appreciated.


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## Jgrden (Dec 8, 2009)

RussFairfield said:


> That high gloss is probably magnifying the scratches from the 400 grit in the Blackwood. Try sanding the wood to the same 12,000 Micro-Mesh before applying the finish.
> 
> Blackwood has a tendency to scratch easily. You might also wet-sand the wood using s little wax as a lubricant.


magnify the scratch. Now I hadn't thought of that one.


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## ed4copies (Dec 8, 2009)

I heard long ago, your finish will never IMPROVE your final sanding.

It will only accentuate it.


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## Bree (Dec 9, 2009)

The super fine grit of your finish can't hide the scratches on the wood.  I always sand the wood itself to MM-12,000 or at least do a triple buff with Tripoli, China White and the wax buff.  The triple buff is not as good as the MM-12,000 but it can be pretty darn close and it really glosses the wood up.

The black colored woods show scratches like nobody's business so fine sanding the wood is critical to success on them.  I messed up several Ebony pens doing exactly the same thing that you did.


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## candy1land (Dec 11, 2009)

tgraytn said:


> The light scratches appear to be from the towel and in the CA as the wood blanks were very smooth before I started applying the CA.  I applied the CA by putting several drops onto the paper towel (in a puddle) and with the lathe spinning at 500 RPM went from right to left 2 times on the blank, letting each coat dry thoroughly before proceeding to the next coat.



When you say that you go from right to left 2 times on the blank - I just want to clarify....that's all you do.  You don't rub the CA back and forth to create heat and dry the CA.  You are just applying the CA onto the blank and letting it dry on it's own?  

If so I tried this method for the first time and WOW was it a challenge trying to get the CA to evenly lay down on the blank with no swirl marks or uneven patches.  I tried it using gloves with my finger and it just never laid down smoothly enough to leave it at that.  Is that why you are sanding the CA between coats?  

I want to get better at this method versus using the paper towel to heat up the CA with the lathe turning at a faster speed.  I find that when I try that method I end up with splotchy patches where there is no shine and as the CA dries on the paper towel it becomes hard and can scratch the pen while I'm finishing it.  

This is truly the most challenging piece for me and I just haven't found a method I like that will work just yet.  I've watched the videos in the library and tried the CA/BLO method but I just can't get rid of the dull patches.  And it's tricky not scratching the CA with the hard glue that happens on the paper towel from the friction and heat.  

Thanks for clarifying when you get a chance.


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## dustmaker (Dec 11, 2009)

Bree said:


> The super fine grit of your finish can't hide the scratches on the wood.  I always sand the wood itself to MM-12,000 or at least do a triple buff with Tripoli, China White and the wax buff.  The triple buff is not as good as the MM-12,000 but it can be pretty darn close and it really glosses the wood up.
> 
> The black colored woods show scratches like nobody's business so fine sanding the wood is critical to success on them.  I messed up several Ebony pens doing exactly the same thing that you did.



Bree, you are right, black acrylics too.  I just finished a black acrylic hybrid cigar, but I am not happy with the finish after seeing it in brighter light...it will have to go back on the lathe for another round of MM.  One question about the triple buff, are you putting a finish on top of the wax?  If so, wouldn't that make a finish like CA a challenge since it tends not to stick to wax?  Just asking, I maybe reading more than is there, but just wanted to get your clarification.


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## writestuff (Dec 11, 2009)

*I'm curious!*

In most sll of the posts I have seen here on CA finishing problems, I don't remember seeing anything about a brown paper buff on the CA.  I forgot this step for a short time, and experienced pretty much the problems sited here.  At first I blamed the low quality towel I was using, but when I started using this method again, hte quality of the finish improved greatly.

WS


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## Bree (Dec 11, 2009)

dustmaker said:


> Bree, you are right, black acrylics too. I just finished a black acrylic hybrid cigar, but I am not happy with the finish after seeing it in brighter light...it will have to go back on the lathe for another round of MM. One question about the triple buff, are you putting a finish on top of the wax? If so, wouldn't that make a finish like CA a challenge since it tends not to stick to wax? Just asking, I maybe reading more than is there, but just wanted to get your clarification.


 
It's a good question.  The answer is no... I don't use any wax on the third buff of the wood.  Only a naked buffer.  If I see any scratches under a very careful examination I will sometimes take it back for MM-12000 only and rebuff on the lathe with lint-free towels I have that are quite strong... practically unbreakable.  I suppose that is my variant of Russ Fairfield's paper bag.

The bottom line is I too am afraid that the wax will interfere with the CA bonding.  I have stopped using oils to pop grain unless I let them dry overnight.  I am also applying acetone the surface of oily woods prior to CA.  I do sometimes apply some DNA-based TransTint if I really want to pop the grain.  That doesn't seem to bother the CA.  Quite frankly, the CA does a good job popping the grain all by itself.  So I really don't need anything else unless I want to change the color.
:wink::wink::wink:


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