# Crackes in the finish of all my buckeye



## Linarestribe (Oct 11, 2013)

So I was looking over my stock yesterday and found that most my pens made with buckeye burl had crackes, crackle or something throughout the whole CA finish. The pens very in completion date from a year ago to two weeks ago so the wear made the different seasons here in the Northwest. Any ideas. Here's some pics.


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## 1080Wayne (Oct 12, 2013)

CA finish , I assume and fairly thick . You don`t see this on other woods , made over the same time frame , finished in the same way ? To my eye , it looks like an environmental stress crack problem , but I have no idea what would induce it . What is your finishing procedure ?


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## Gary Beasley (Oct 12, 2013)

When that has happened to me it's been from moisture content, more often with incompletely dried and stabilized wood.


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## mhbeauford (Oct 12, 2013)

I suspect the blanks were not dry enough.


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## mhbeauford (Oct 12, 2013)

Also, much burl wood is very light and porous when dry. For those I like to dry them to less than 7% and stabilize them, this stops stress cracking due to moisture changes.


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## Linarestribe (Oct 12, 2013)

Thanks for the tips. It only happened on the buckeye. Three different sources of buckeye. One was a buckeye/acrylic blank. Maybe it wasn't stabilized. My shop is just a shed so maybe buckeye is more susceptible to moisture up here in WA. 

I finish by applying around ten coats with a paper towel, wet sand through the colored m/m and polish with Nova. 

Would old CA do this?


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## Nikitas (Oct 12, 2013)

When that happened to me I contributed to a bad batch of CA got a brand new bottle and it worked out perfect...


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## Parshooter11 (Oct 14, 2013)

I've had the same thing occur...pens..and more recently this weekend on segmented bottle stoppers...not sure of an answer. I do use several coats...with activator sprayed on each coat. They polish up really well...and then after sitting over night....cracks or cloudiness??


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## bjbear76 (Oct 14, 2013)

so when this happens, do you attempt to save them or call it a loss and pitch them?


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## Parshooter11 (Oct 14, 2013)

I've gone back at them with sanding and acetone...generally end up going back to the original surface....it is an interesting phenomenon.


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## Gary Beasley (Oct 14, 2013)

Are you using the new CA wood finish or regular CA?


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## Linarestribe (Oct 14, 2013)

I use the ca that exotic blanks now stocks. He took over another business. 

I think I'll keep the components, toss the blank and start with a news tube. The closed end razor is a loss I think. 

I wonder if the accelerator is causing it. I'll try lighter coats next time.


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## Gary Beasley (Oct 14, 2013)

Accelerator would be one thing to check. That would make the waits kind of annoying while coating the pen. Whatever works though.


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## ed4copies (Oct 14, 2013)

There have been numerous reports of different problems with CA finishes.  Many pen makers have speculated as to the cause, but the fact is no one knows!!

Personally, I suggest using Woodturner's finish, which is MADE to be a finish for wood.  Originally it was a wood floor finish.  

CA puts a plastic coat on wood.  We know wood moves, we know brass (as in brass tubes) expands and contracts with heat.  I don't think we should be surprised when the plastic "overcoat" cracks as the materials inside move or exude moisture.

I'm not a chemist, I don't play one on TV and I did NOT stay in any special hotels last night.  So, I am NOT an expert.

But, logic tells me a coat of plastic will NOT move, unless it cracks.

And there have been numerous threads here on IAP to confirm that the plastic is cracking and there is "cloudiness" building up inside the CA coating, on top of the wood.  Until we KNOW a cause, I would avoid CA finishes----but I am extremely conservative in the way I make pens.
I HATE returns!!!!


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## Parshooter11 (Oct 16, 2013)

Went tonight to my helpful Woodcraft store owner and showed him my crackled/cloudy CA coated bottle stopper. He immediately asked if I used accelerator and how long between coats. I told him yes and about a minute or two. His personal experiences, when he's had this happen, have been too much accelerator used and need to wait about 5 min. between coats for proper curing. So, going to slow down my finishing and enjoy the process. He also showed me some pieces he did with Wood Turners Finish. They polished up great and looked super!!! I bought some WTF...


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## thewishman (Oct 16, 2013)

I stopped using a finish on wood blanks. I only use stabilized wood or BOW now.


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## Donnie Kennedy (Oct 16, 2013)

I haven't experimented with this idea yet, but I wonder if the WTF will stick to CA... If using CA to fill the grain and firm up the blanks?


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## ed4copies (Oct 16, 2013)

Donnie Kennedy said:


> I haven't experimented with this idea yet, but I wonder if the WTF will stick to CA... If using CA to fill the grain and firm up the blanks?


  Yes, it will.


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## Parshooter11 (Oct 17, 2013)

I went to my helpful Woodcraft store owners and showed them the crazed/cracked/cloudy CA finished bottle stopper I had. They said too much accelerator and not allowing enough time between coats will do that. They had had the same thing happen to them. So, I'll start enjoying my finishing process and wait longer between coats (they suggested about 5 minutes) and then not do the final polishing until the next day. I also bought a bottle of the Wood Turners Finish. They showed me some blanks they had done with it and they really looked great!! Will be using that to see how I do with it. It sounds pretty easy..and no fumes or glued fingers!!


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## rd_ab_penman (Oct 17, 2013)

The problem I found using WTF urethane compared to MINWAX WBOM Polyurethane is that it discolors (Yellows) light colored woods.

Les


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## Marc (Oct 17, 2013)

My local woodworking store owner opined that the CA finish was put on too thick.  It was better, he said, to use thinner coats before applying the accelerator.  The accelerator was curing the top layer of CA, but not the stuff immediately under the cured CA.  

Thinner coats was his answer.


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## patrik1 (Nov 19, 2013)

I had a conversation with the Mfg.  seems that this is caused by the CA(thicker) Setting unevenly, and Old material.  I was warned that a year + was too old.
seems that the surface sets at one rate, and the center of the coat sets later. They replaced the CA for me.  I have a dummy sitting on desk for 2 weeks to be sure.
I had followed the instructions as shown, thin coats, accelerator etc.  up to 7 coats.
I will come back in 2 weeks and report on the results.  Pat


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## 76winger (Nov 25, 2013)

*CA cracking crackling broken glass whatever you call it*

*Not try taking over this thread but I wanted to vent/rant and keep it in an existing discussion of this increasingly frequent problem
*
For several years I never had a problem with this and yet over the last year I've now had about 10 instances of it. In once case just this week I noticed it on a pen I just refinished for the same problem a month ago! 

All along I've been using Stickfast thin & thick and mixed those together to make my own medium and one day it just started happening about a year ago. I figured maybe an older batch at that time, but I've since gotten new stuff. The latest incident I had switched to using 3 or 4 coats of Stick Fast's new CA Wood finish formula in thin, using their accelerator between each coat. Then I top that with 3-4 coats of "their" medium of the CA Wood Finish, not my mixture, and using accelerator on each coat as well. Two weeks later CRACKS ALL OVER THE PLACE! On two different pens!

Before this I tried using their CA Wood Finish formula without accelerator. I found that to produce a "rubbery" finish that was hard to smooth and polish up and clogged the sandpaper very quickly. And after that attempt without accelerator, the finish kept drying and shrinking over a month or more and ended up with a wrinkled texture on the finish instead of the glass-smooth finish I originally put on. 

I don't know what's going on, but it's getting very frustrating after all the success I had in the past to be in the position of refinishing some pens 2 or 3 times trying to get a stable shiny finish that used to happen so easily for me. I've even ruined one laser cut body now from turning it back down too thin, attempting to get all the former cracked coat off. 



 My medium coats are usually applied fairly thick, could that be the problem?
 Maybe a dozen or more thin coats like others do and no medium?
 Should I try a different brand (and if so what)?
 Move away from CA?
 Does anything else give a CA-like finish?

CA works with wood, acrylic, clay, bone/antler and more which has made it a very versatile finish. But Crackles and Wrinkles are Unacceptable and I'm ready for a new approach.


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## ed4copies (Nov 25, 2013)

Step back and re-evaluate!!

You don't have to AGREE with my thoughts, but at least decide WHY you don't agree.

For many years, wood has been considered "rich" and "warm".  It has been coated with numerous oils, that enrich it by "soaking in" or "building" to a shine.  But there has remained the "feel" of smooth, luxurious wood.

Now, we are attempting to put a plastic coat on the wood.  We claim it will make the pen more "durable".  But, will it?  FACT is, we don't know.  There is substantial evidence that the coating will crack, or there will be "whiting".  So, why are we so convinced this is a GOOD way to treat our pens??

I liked CA, originally.  But I LOVE knowing my customer will be happy and, at present, there is no way to KNOW CA will last.  Spray lacquer is a certainty---more difficult to apply, but a KNOWN durability.  Woodturners Finish is another "good bet" based on it's history as a floor finish.

Personally, I recommend abandoning the CA build up.  Buy plastic blanks and make plastic pens---the material will "move" at one speed, so it will not encourage cracking AND there is no moisture to suddenly show itself UNDER your finish.  

Your customer will LOVE their pen and come back to you to praise your craftsmanship.  NOT complain about your cracking plastic finish, applied to their NATURALLY BEAUTIFUL Exotic wood.

Call me "old-fashioned", but I think "hand-made pens" are a tribute to the past, particularly in this age of "typed communication".

FWIW,
Ed


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## 76winger (Nov 25, 2013)

Ed, 
I do agree with what you're saying and understand the reasoning in your logic. Or is that the logic in your reasoning... :wink:

I've also seen it happen on one of the Toni's blanks I recently assembled. So it's not just wood, although still a different material (clay) than CA and probably different expansion/contraction rates than CA just as your attributing to wood/CA.

I'm mostly confused as to why it's just started happening in the last year or two. Maybe others have had the problem longer, but I've only seen it lately.

Actually, on a lot of HARD woods, I still use Shellawax, which I started with back in 2008 and it's a fine finish in my opinion. Most of my bad experiences, but not all, seem to happen with laser-cut bodies and only a couple on solid wood bodies that I applied CA for the finish. Maybe different wood materials all expanding at different rates are contributing to the effect, but the cracks are showing up on the opposite side of the images in most cases, so that doesn't make sense either. 

Would WTF, lacquer, BLO, and many of the other finishes be good for these after they've been assembled and somewhat stabilized with CA underneath? 

If change is what's needed I'm ready for it, because disassembling and re-finishing pens before I even get them up for sale does not enhance the level of fun from this hobby. When I was a mechanic, I did my best to do the work right the first time so I didn't have "comebacks". I would certainly prefer to have that same level of reliability in my pen finishes. Even if I have to move toward using different finishes for different materials. 

I guess I'm looking for some best practices based on the experience of others who are successfully NOT having this problem.


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