# BOW Finish



## wdcav1952 (Apr 2, 2005)

Thanks to Lou I have two very special pens to make in Bethlehem Olive Wood.  The pens will be Jr Gents.  Although I have my personal favorite finishes, and those I don't care for, I don't wish to mention my feelings.  What I am asking for is what would you use to finish a BOW pen you wanted to be very special.  Thanks to all who respond, and again to Lou for inspiring and supplying the project.


----------



## DCBluesman (Apr 2, 2005)

From my perspective, Bethlehem olive wood is one of the easier woods to finish.  After sanding to a million (or MM12000, whichever comes first []), most BOW looks finished.  

A quick wipe down with denatured alcohol will remove any excess surface oil.  At that point, you'll probably want to seal the grain.  A sanding sealer works well, but I prefer a friction polish which usually pops the grain a bit more.  

After "burning" it in realy well, let the pen sit for a day, then barely brush the surfact with MM8000 or MM12000.  A couple of coats of lacquer will add some protection.  If you want to add depth, wait at least a day after applying the lacquer, re-scuff the finish with MM8000 or MM12000 and apply two additional coats.  

Once you've got 4 coats on, the lacquer really needs a 2-3 or more days to cure.  At that point you can add as many coats as you want, typically in series' of four.  After the final coat of lacquer, wait a day, scuff the surface with MM12000 and apply your top coat. (I already know which one you use. []) Wait another day before assembly.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it! [8D]


----------



## wayneis (Apr 2, 2005)

Well William, I guess you know what I would use.  Enduro is the only finish that I use for any wood.

Wayne


----------



## wdcav1952 (Apr 2, 2005)

Two different answers from two different artists!  This is what I envisioned when I posted this.  Thanks Lou and Wayne.  More input?


----------



## woodpens (Apr 2, 2005)

> _Originally posted by wayneis_
> <br />Well William, I guess you know what I would use.  Enduro is the only finish that I use for any wood.


How long does it take to complete an Enduro finish? If you consistently had orders which required you to make around 8 to 16 pens in a day, would you still use Enduro?


----------



## KKingery (Apr 2, 2005)

I've used furniture wax finish, and also the BLO/CA. I like both. Personally, I'm leaning towards the CA finish.


----------



## Gary (Apr 2, 2005)

Sand to 320 or 400 grit. Then sand with ABRALON pads starting with the 500 grit pad. Proceed to the 1000 grit pad then the 2000 and 4000. Finish with a coat of Behlen's Woodturner's Finish. Let it cure overnight then wax/buff with Renaissance Wax.


----------



## woodscavenger (Apr 3, 2005)

1000 members, 1000 finishes.  Don't you love it.


----------



## dougle40 (Apr 3, 2005)

Sand to 3000 grit then Turners Polish and Paste Wax .


----------



## wayneis (Apr 3, 2005)

Jim yes I would still use Enduro.  As to how long it takes...both sites have instructions that I wrote on exactly how I do this finish.  I have many pens going at the same time so I am completing pens almost everyday.  Part of each day is drilling and gluing up a few blanks, then I will turn sand and put on three coats of sanding sealer.  Then its off to MMing the pens that I put the SS on the day before and I then put on the three coats of Enduro.  I usually save the best for last, MMing the blanks that I put Enduro on the day before and assembling them.  Both the sanding sealer and the Enduro dry very fast, I can put on three coats of either in about 10 to 15 minutes.  To me, Enduro is cheaper than CA, its better for my health than CA, it builds up more than CA giving more depth and I think that I get a more consistent finish from pen to pen.  It took me a long time to figure out the best way to do it, but ever sense it just gets easier each time.  There are also a couple of people who use a hair drier to speed it up, I don't but I'm not in that big a hurry and how I do it works great so I have no inclination to change.

Wayne


----------



## wdcav1952 (Apr 3, 2005)

Wayne, 
Well said.  Wasn't it Russ who said that there are quick finishes and good finishes, but he didn't feel that there were any good quick finishes?  The SS is setting on the pen I mentioned.  When I go for my true "masterpiece", I will use Waterlox, for my "normal" (a word not often applied to me) work I will continue to use Enduro.


----------



## PenWorks (Apr 3, 2005)

William, Just want to know, do you throw away as much Waterlox as I do. I even bought that spray to spary in the can, and it still gells on me? What is the trick I'm missing?


----------



## wdcav1952 (Apr 3, 2005)

> _Originally posted by penworks_
> <br />William, Just want to know, do you throw away as much Waterlox as I do. I even bought that spray to spary in the can, and it still gells on me? What is the trick I'm missing?


Anthony, 

So far I haven't thrown ANY Waterlox away.  The trick that I am using is that I haven't bought any yet.  [] I plan to when I do a pen worthy of the best finish.  I did read one source that said use glass marbles or the like to raise the level of the liquid to minimize air in the can.  Sorry, couldn't resist being a smart a**!


----------



## woodpens (Apr 3, 2005)

Wayne,
I have not tried Enduro because I cannot start and finish a pen in one day if I use it. I have always been in the mindset that a pen that has been ordered needs to be shipped ASAP. I make very few pens that have not been ordered such as those many of you take to shows and fairs. I want to try Enduro and see for myself how it differs from a good CA finish. I believe you that it is a better finish, but I need to convince myself that it is worth holding onto the pen for two days. You mentioned the two sites posting your method. What are these two sites? Thanks for the help!


----------



## wdcav1952 (Apr 3, 2005)

Jim,
I don't think Wayne will mind if I attach his technique here.

Applying Enduro Finish to Pens

I sand with sand paper starting with 220 through 400. This part is
up to the individual turner as to how smooth and how far you turn
your blank. You may need to start with 150 or whatever you feel is
better.

Next I use Micro Mesh 1500 through 12,000 at the slowest speed
keeping the Micro Mesh moving at all times. Remember Micro Mesh will
melt.

For the sanding sealer and the Enduro I use Viva paper towell. I cut
off a piece of towell about 4" x 6" and fold into a 1/2" to 3/4" x
6" strip. I make two, one for the sanding sealer and one for the
Enduro. I also purchased a couple small bottles like CA comes in and
I put my sanding sealer in one and Enduro in the other. Its a lot
easier that trying to drip from a quart container.

I now put on three coats of sanding sealer. With the lathe again
running at the lowest speed I hold the folded paper towell behind the
slowly turning blank and drip sanding sealer on the top of the blank
moving the towell back and forth to even out the SS. The sanding
sealer will only take 2 or 3 minutes to dry. After the first coat
dries I then put on another just like the first. Lastly with the
lathe off, I put a drop at a time on the folded pad I put on the last
coat in the opposit direction, from end to end.

At this point the sanding sealer will need to cure for in my opinion,
at least four to six hours. I let mine cure overnight. I take the
blank off the mandrel and put on another spare mandrel and work on
another pen.

Now the sanding sealer has cured and I sand with the Micro Mesh
starting with 3200 through 12,000. I DO NOT sand all of the sanding
sealer off the blank, I am just smoothing it out and polishing it.

I now take the second folded pad of paper towell and again with the
blank turning at the slowest speed I put on three coats of Enduro
Poly. I do this again holding the pad behind the blank and drip the
Enduro on top sliding the pad back and forth a couple times to even
it out. Enduro dries very fast so be carfull to just even the Enduro
out on the blank. I put on three coats total of the Enduro Poly each
in the same direction with the lathe running at low speed. There
will be rings but they will even out later with the finial sanding
and polishing.

From what I've found the cure time is a little faster for the poly
that the sanding sealer, I only let the Enduro cure for 3 or 4 hours.

I get the Micro Mesh out again and starting with 3200 I lightly
smooth the blanks, again with the lathe at low speed. I use all of
the Micro Mesh grits from 3200 up to 12,000.

At this time if you have a beautifull set of blanks that are ready to
be assembled into a pen, or whatever it is you are making.

WARNING: For anyone that uses bluesman's TSW 1121 finish, I have
found from experence that you need to let the Enduro cure a full
twenty four hours. He says that he uses a small amount of poly in
tsw and it reacts with the Enduro and dulls the finish if you use the
tsw too soon. I have in the past, after waiting 24 hours tried the
tsw and other than the smooth slick feel I see no difference. I have
choosen to use Renaissance wax after assembling the pen and letting
it set for 24 hours. I don't know if you have to wait with the Ren
wax but after my experence with TSW I'm not taking any chances.


----------



## Gregory Huey (Apr 3, 2005)

I have had good results with BLO/CA on olive wood.


----------



## jdavis (Apr 4, 2005)

Finish is a matter of personal preferrence.


----------



## wayneis (Apr 4, 2005)

Jim my feeling is that when a customer orders something they will know that it is being made just for them. I give them an estimate, always allowing myself an extra couple days just in case and usaually end up finishing early.  I think that anyone who is making a special order realizes that they will not get it immeadiatly, they know that you are not sitting there just waiting for their order.  When someone does make a special order my time estimate is usually two weeks, so far noone has thought that it was unresonable.

Wayne


----------



## wdcav1952 (Apr 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by jdavis_
> <br />Finish is a matter of personal preferrence.



Quite profound.  That is why I asked for personal preferences in my original post.


----------



## woodpens (Apr 4, 2005)

Wayne,
I understand your viewpoint. I have three orders on my desk now for "special orders" that specified Express Mail. I could put my foot down and post something on my website that states custom orders take 2 weeks to fill, but that would have a serious impact on the number of orders placed. I get a lot of orders that are for birthdays less than a week away. Something a lot of customers don't realize is the size of my business. My website is fairly elaborate, so they often come to the conclusion that my business is much larger than it actually is. A lady cancelled her order last week when my 12 year old daughter answered the phone and she realized it is a home business.
Normally, the only time I give a customer a time estimate is if it requires me to make 25 or more pens, or if they specifically ask for one. I could still probably work the finishing time for Enduro into my schedule, but I hesitate to change anything that requires more time than my current process. I'll give it a try. Does Bill Baumbeck sell Enduro? If not, where can I find a good price on it?
Thanks!


----------



## wdcav1952 (Apr 4, 2005)

Jim,
The only source for Enduro is Compliant Spray Systems.  This link shoul take you to the page that shows their "sample kit."  You have to order by phone.  Wayne recommended the poly kit.  Hope this helps.
http://www.compliantspraysystems.com/enduro_water_base_coatings/exterior_interior_poly_page1.htm


----------



## wayneis (Apr 6, 2005)

Jim as I stated in another post, if you have something thats not broke, why fix it.  Enduro is not a pen in a day finish and I'm not trying to convince everyone to switch to it.  But when someone has a problem with CA due to health maybe, or just wants to try something else and asks then I explain that Enduro is an option to look at. 

Wayne


----------



## rtjw (Apr 6, 2005)

Will,you need to finish the pen with the finish you are most comfortable with. You said this is a SPECIAL pen. Why waste a special pen trying out someones technique when you can use a finish you already trust and know how to do.


----------



## JimGo (Apr 6, 2005)

Johnny,
Although I agree with you in theory, if it is truly special, it might be worth Jim practicing a different finish if he's not happy with CA.  I plan on making a few "gift" pens for friends before I make one out of pink ivory set for my wife.  I think for that special set, I will be both practicing on a pen for someone else, and using a more time-consuming finish like poly or Enduro, because from what I understand, those finishes are more likely to hold up longer, which is what I want on such a special pen.


----------



## wdcav1952 (Apr 6, 2005)

> _Originally posted by rtjw_
> <br />Will,you need to finish the pen with the finish you are most comfortable with. You said this is a SPECIAL pen. Why waste a special pen trying out someones technique when you can use a finish you already trust and know how to do.



Excellent points, Johnny and Jim.  I was leaning toward Enduro, and ended up using it, although I am not yet through with the project.  Given the oily nature of BOW, I wanted input untainted by my preference for Enduro.  Also, I wanted to stimulate some discussion of finishing techniques, and feel that I was relatively successful in that regard.  I have to get the engraving designed and done on the pen for my wife who is serving in Kuwait, then I will post the pair of pens.  That is, if I can get up the nerve to post any pix after Lou's incredible Grecian series!  Thanks to all who contributed to my question.


----------



## DCBluesman (Apr 6, 2005)

You've made the wise decision, William.  After seeing what you, Wayne and Anthony (among others) are able to do with Enduro, I'm quite certain these will be beauties...and you darned well better post pics.  I don't provide advice for free, you know! []


----------



## PenWorks (Apr 6, 2005)

Stimulate hell William, [] you just wanted to
start another fight ! []


----------



## JimGo (Apr 6, 2005)

William, when you send the pens over, please also send our thanks and best wishes.


----------



## wdcav1952 (Apr 7, 2005)

> _Originally posted by penworks_
> <br />Stimulate hell William, [] you just wanted to
> start another fight ! []



Wasn't Elvis who sang the song "Truth Hurts"?  I may have the title wrong [}]


----------



## MDWine (Apr 8, 2005)

No wonder I spend so much time on this site, reading threads like these... so much good information and so much to learn.

Thanks everyone, and keep it coming!!!


----------

