# How much Wood Could a Pin Chuck, Chuck?



## Fangar (Sep 30, 2005)

Hello all,

Today I had a little time with Dad's Metal Lathe and milling machine.  I turned some stock down and milled out a nice Pin Chuck to fit the baron small tube.  I also turned an aluminum bushing that slides over the pin chuck to size the end of the baron that will accept the nib fittings.  

I got to thinking that there might be others who would like a pin chuck, but don't have the tools or possibly the know how about making their own.  If there was enough interest, I might be able to get some together with the bushing for the barons.  Just chumming the waters here to see if there is even any interest.  Not sure what they would go for, but I am sure they would be fairly inexpensive.  

Comments, Questions, Suggestions.

Fangar


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## PenWorks (Sep 30, 2005)

I would opt for one, would take a gents to if you and the old man get busy.  [] 
I miss my pops, he worked a machine lathe for 40 years, then died to soon. I could have kept him real busy cutting threads for me.


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## Fangar (Sep 30, 2005)

> _Originally posted by PenWorks_
> <br />I would opt for one, would take a gents to if you and the old man get busy.  []
> I miss my pops, he worked a machine lathe for 40 years, then died to soon. I could have kept him real busy cutting threads for me.



I know what you had Anthony.  My old man can make anything, though I fear he is not in the best of health.  Fortunately  about 10% of his skill rubbed off on me... I hope... My Grandpa (His Dad) died at 97 years old.  He was a peach.  

What is the Inner Diamter of the gents tube for the barrel end?  I have not made one of those.  The Baron is 23/64".

Fangar


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## PenWorks (Sep 30, 2005)

The ID of the gent tube .428  and the OD of the  nib bushing is .595


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## lkorn (Sep 30, 2005)

Color me ignorant, but what is a custom "pin Chuck" for?  How 'bout a photo?

Thanks


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## btboone (Sep 30, 2005)

I had never heard of one until I came here either, Larry.  It's a round metal shaft that fits fairly tightly into a tube, in this case, the brass tubes that the pens are made on.  The shaft has a flat that is ground on one or more sides, and a cylindrical roller rides on that flat.  It works like a roller clutch in that the cylinderical roller gets wedged between the flat and the tube.  It allows someone to turn a part only holding onto the inside of the tube, so a pen with a closed end can be made this way.


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## vick (Sep 30, 2005)

I have a picture of one I made here

http://www.penturners.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9322&SearchTerms=pin,chuck

also a link in their to a long discussion about pin chucks

It would depend on the price but I might be interested.


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## Ron in Drums PA (Sep 30, 2005)

Larry
scroll down about half way down on this page
http://www.fholder.com/Woodturning/tips.htm


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## Fangar (Sep 30, 2005)

Vick posted a photo of a great example.  The problem is that the closest to a Baron inside you can find in a bolt is 3/8" which is too large. You pretty much need a different chuck for each of the inner diameter pen tubes you inted on turning.  The good thing is that a 10mm Cigar is the same as the baron lower tube.  So you get a two-fer.

Anthony.  I will look into those sizes.  I might just try to do the Baron's for now as the setup of the lathe and milling machine is critical.  I will look into it though.

Fangar


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## Fangar (Sep 30, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Ron in Drums PA_
> <br />Larry
> scroll down about half way down on this page
> http://www.fholder.com/Woodturning/tips.htm



That is another good example Ron.  However just as a side note, that design is more fitting for a bottle stopper.  A Pen blank (At least for a rollerball type) has to be drilled deeper.  The filed groove like in vicks example is nice as the pin stays put inside of the tool's slot.

Fangar


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## Ron in Drums PA (Sep 30, 2005)

Fangar

Couldn't you use drill rod?


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## Fangar (Sep 30, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Ron in Drums PA_
> <br />Fangar
> 
> Couldn't you use drill rod?



Exactly.  I didn't have any on hand, so I turned a piece of 3/8" stainless down a hair.  The drill rod would work out better.  It is fairly inexpensive too.  The bushing for a Baron is just under a 1/2".  I used a piece of aluminum, as it was easier to turn and bore, but some nice steel tubing would work well for that and hold up better to bumps with the tools.  

Fangar


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## Ron in Drums PA (Sep 30, 2005)

Fangar here are some drill rods

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=657&PARTPG=INLMK32


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## Fangar (Sep 30, 2005)

Anthony,

What bit is the Gent tube drilled with?

Fangar


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## darbytee (Sep 30, 2005)

James, I'd be interested also, depending on the price. And if you're making one for the gent's pen for Anthony...


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## woodscavenger (Sep 30, 2005)

Hey guys, if you don't have a metal lathe in your back pocket modify the 10mm insert that comes with the barrel trimmer kit.  I cut a slot in mine and it works great as a pin chuck for the Barons.  It still works great as a barrel trimmmer insert.


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## PenWorks (Oct 1, 2005)

James the bit is a 15/32 for the gent bottom tube. Don't knock yourself out over it. If you do fine, if not, fine to. I just thought you would want one for yourself as well. Can't believe you haven't made a Statesmen or Gent pen. []


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## vick (Oct 1, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Fangar_
> <br /> You pretty much need a different chuck for each of the inner diameter pen tubes you inted on turning.
> Fangar



I tried sizing different tubes useing a trasfer punch set that goes by 64th and of course none of the tubes inside diameter matches a standard size.  It is amazing how big a 64th seems now.  My idea was to by drill rod in the right size and just have to file the pin cutout.  Well back to the drawing board.  I have a couple ideas in the works still if this does not work out.

Woodscavenger - I think you have a real good idea my only concern would be that it would not be long enough for a closed end pen with out the inside of the tube being unsupported internally while turning.  Did you have any problems with that, especially after you parted the end and were unsupported by the tail stock?


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## Ron in Drums PA (Oct 1, 2005)

Mike

Did you look into metric sized drill rods?


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## lkorn (Oct 1, 2005)

Bruce / Ron,
Thanks for the explanation of the pin chuck.  I guess it can't be too tightly wedged or it wouldn't release.  Snug in, snug out?


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## Ron in Drums PA (Oct 1, 2005)

A twist clock wise tightens it and a twist counterclockwise loosens it.


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## vick (Oct 1, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Ron in Drums PA_
> <br />Mike
> 
> Did you look into metric sized drill rods?


I did not think of that.  To tell the truth I am not set up to measure metric.  If anyone else is hint hint


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## wayneis (Oct 1, 2005)

Fangar, I'd be in for any of the sizes, Baron, Gent and both the pen top and bottom.  That way we could make a closed end for the top and bottom.

Wayne


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## Fangar (Oct 1, 2005)

> _Originally posted by PenWorks_
> <br />James the bit is a 15/32 for the gent bottom tube. Don't knock yourself out over it. If you do fine, if not, fine to. I just thought you would want one for yourself as well. <b>Can't believe you haven't made a Statesmen or Gent pen</b>. []



I know, I know.  

Fangar


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## Scott (Oct 1, 2005)

I'd be interested!  Let me know!

Scott.


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## Fangar (Oct 1, 2005)

Looks like there might be enough interest.  Been doing a bit of research.  I would like to get some input of pricing.  I was thinking in the range of 15 bucks for the pin, chuck and bushing.   That would cover any paypal fees and also include shipping.  I think what I will do is start with the Baron and Gent (Bottom tube only) for now.  I will make up a bunch of them and then post in the Individual classifieds when ready.  Does that sound reasonable?  

Fangar


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## Jim Boyd (Oct 1, 2005)

OK let me see if I understand what a pin chuck is. A rod the diameter of the particular tube of the pen you are working with. This rod has a flat milled in it. The depth of this flat when combined with the diameter of a small nail equals the diameter of the rod. The small nail is placed on the flat and the pen tube is inserted over the rod and nail. Turning the tube causes the nail to roll on the flat and wedges inside the tube, effectively holding it in place so it can be turned. Correct? What is the bushing you speak of for?


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## Fangar (Oct 1, 2005)

Jim,

The bushing is what you turn the end of the pen down to.  Just like when you turn a Baron or a Gent.  The only difference is that the hole is drilled out to slide over the rod that the pin chuck is made from.  

So a Baron bushing which is around .488 or so +- has a hole in the center for the 7mm mandrel.  The bushings I make for the Pin Chucks have a 23/64" hole in the center to mate with the inner diamter of the 10mm tube.  The Gents woould be around 27/64" or whatever the proper size is.  (Still have to look intot hat one).  Hope that helps.

Fangar

Fangar


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## Fangar (Oct 1, 2005)

Here is a quick example I drew up for the Baron.  Me like Pictures... Pictures GOOD!










Cheers,

Fangar


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## PenWorks (Oct 1, 2005)

Price sounds good to me James, when ever you get to them, save me one. 
If the pin chuck looks as good as your drawings, they should be worth every penny []


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## rtjw (Oct 1, 2005)

I would l.ove to have a pin chuck, just dont have the stuff to make it. Would be willing to pay good money for one though.


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## Jim Boyd (Oct 1, 2005)

I guess this means it is a good to have both a metal lathe and a mini mill[]


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## darbytee (Oct 1, 2005)

At $15, I'm in too James. Just let me know when they're ready.


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## woodscavenger (Oct 1, 2005)

I have done many closed ends with my modified trimmer/pin chuck and don't have any problems after parting it off.  Everything is nice and solid.


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## Fangar (Oct 1, 2005)

Thanks guys.  I ordered up some drill rods tonight for the Baron size as well as the pins.  I am going to hold off on the Gents for now.  I don't have any around and want to be sure of the sizing before I order a bunch of rod stock.  I will likely get some Gents in the near future and make some test chucks to be sure they function properly first.  

Cheers,

Fangar


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## Ron in Drums PA (Oct 2, 2005)

Fangar

I just checked another supplier and found that McMaster Carr  http://www.mcmaster.com/  has drill rod in fractional, lettered, numbered and metric sizes.
For future reference.


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## Fangar (Oct 2, 2005)

Ron,

Thanks for the link.  That place is very pricey compared to enco (About 4 times as much).  Also, the size for the gent is .428 ID according to Anthony.  That is 10.88 mm.  So metric from them won't work, since they only have whole sizes.  27/64 is .4218 which is as close to .428 as I can find.  7/16 or .4375 is the next size up and obviously too large.  I think the 27/64 would be close enough for the Gents, but want to check first.  Wayne said he would sent me a lower tube to get things rolling.  That would be great so I could make a tool and make sure it actually works first.

Thanks for the assist.

Fangar


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## Ron in Drums PA (Oct 2, 2005)

Oil Hardening Steel  36" length

McMaster Part #8893k78.. $5.63 
Enco Part #422-1317....... $5.40

McMaster carries more types of steel, if you compare same type, prices are a bit closer.
McMaster's catalog can be a bit confusing to use.

FWIW  .4218 = 10.7mm


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## rtparso (Oct 2, 2005)

Watch out fo rshipping and handleing I ordered some brass tube and the S&H was more then the tube.


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## btboone (Oct 2, 2005)

MSC is another that carries it all.


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## Fangar (Oct 2, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Ron in Drums PA_
> <br />Oil Hardening Steel  36" length
> 
> McMaster Part #8893k78.. $5.63
> ...



Yeah, I must have been comparing apples and oranges.  When I looked back Enco was only about $1.47 a rod less (3.53 compared to 5.00) for the same stuff that I ordered.  

Cheers,

Fangar


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## Ryan (Oct 3, 2005)

Just an FYI for anyone who wants to know. I used the bushings from the softgrip pen and they fit perfectly into the tubes of a gents pen. I did not have a jacobs chuck so I had to get creative by using my mandrel.

Now if I file a flat on one of those bushings you could make a pin chuck using you mandrel instead of a chuck.

Ryan


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## Ron in Drums PA (Oct 3, 2005)

Fanger,
do you have a milling machine?
I have an idea.


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## Fangar (Oct 3, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Ron in Drums PA_
> <br />Fanger,
> do you have a milling machine?
> I have an idea.



Yup... A big Arse One!

Fangar


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## Ron in Drums PA (Oct 3, 2005)

PM Sent


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## jwoodwright (Oct 3, 2005)

Just a thought...  Why not use rod the same size as the bushing, turn down to inside size and then add flat for pin[?]

Of course this may be the Percocet talking.  Siatica[?] Has me down and out for the last Month...[][xx(]


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## vick (Oct 3, 2005)

> _Originally posted by jwoodwright_
> <br />Just a thought...  Why not use rod the same size as the bushing, turn down to inside size and then add flat for pin[?]
> 
> Of course this may be the Percocet talking.  Siatica[?] Has me down and out for the last Month...[][xx(]



You would have to waste a lot of metal this way, and it would increase production time quite a bit (taking off the extra metal).  With him using the nearest sized drill rod you can guarentee that he is removeing less that 1/64 of material.


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## alamocdc (Oct 3, 2005)

James, I'm in for one (or two... Gent) of these as well. Just let me know when they are ready.


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## Jim Boyd (Oct 3, 2005)

> _Originally posted by jwoodwright_
> <br />Just a thought...  Why not use rod the same size as the bushing, turn down to inside size and then add flat for pin[?]
> 
> Of course this may be the Percocet talking.  Siatica[?] Has me down and out for the last Month...[][xx(]


That is the way I am going to make one. No mass production here[8D]


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## RPM (Oct 8, 2005)

I would be interested in one also.
Richard


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## epson (Oct 8, 2005)

I would like to buy one.  Let me know when they are ready.


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## Fangar (Oct 8, 2005)

Thanks guys,

I made a few of them this weekend, but then had some issues with the milling machine. I need to get a better cutter (Carbide).  I am going to do dump a few bucks and do a large production run soon. It might be a couple of weeks though.  Very sorry for the delay.  I will post up a thread in the Individual Classifieds when I get them done.  

Fangar


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