# Arizona Silhouette Customer Service



## karlkuehn (Apr 7, 2008)

Listen, I know there's some controversy out there about Bill's 'people skills', but lemme tell ya - I've ordered $50 worth of stuff, and I've ordered $1400 worth of stuff (just now), called him both times, and received the same service on both occasions. Short and to the point, and off the phone again, with me being able to sleep comfortably, knowing that everything's gonna be okay. I think he said about fourteen words to me in all, and they were all perfect. Nice thing is, I don't have to spend the next half hour airing smoke outta my as..uh...nether region. []

I'm fully confident that I won't even have to check the kits when the box gets here from this group buy. Bill's the man, I don't care what you say!

After managing all the orders, building the spreadsheet, and doing the whole group buy unsung hero dance, I realized this morning that maybe the insurance wouldn't be a bad idea on an order that size. So I called him, and lo and behold, he'd paid the insurance out of his own pocket. So, those of you that hopped on board my little group buy, we all owe Bill about $1.50 each. 

It's that kind of foresight and customer care that keeps me heading back there. Between Bill and Ernie, it makes me wonder if Berea requires a dealer to ace some sort of customer service I.Q. test before they get to be distributors.

I won't neglect to count the insurance into future orders, but for Bill to get my back on this over-(or under)-sight of mine, I mean, really, it's just amazing.

Next person that posts something negative about Arizona Silhouette will probably get an earful from me, and I'm pretty good at giving earfuls. [}]

Thank you Bill!


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## Reb (Apr 7, 2008)

Everything I'v order has been right and talk about fast shipping. Wow And I'm a newbe


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## ones (Apr 7, 2008)

I just received my first order and got extra goodies. Fast and accurate.


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## maxwell_smart007 (Apr 7, 2008)

It's too bad he doesn't ship up here, as he sound like he runs a pretty tight ship!  Glad the group buy went well!


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## IPD_Mrs (Apr 7, 2008)

Bill is very good at what he does.  As for being short and to the point there are a couple of considerations that folks not in the mail order business need to understand.

If you are calling an 800 number it costs the vendor much more than what you would pay if you call them direct.  The time that a vendor spends on the phone being chatty is keeping that line busy and preventing a possible order from coming in.

All of the orders I have plased with Bill has been via his web site.  It is a pain in the rear as his shopping cart is antiquated, but it works none the less.  Due to Bill's reputaion on here I have never worried about getting a flawless transaction.  If I have any special instructions on my order I put it in the note section.  He has never responded to the notes but has ALWAYS followed through.  The big difference between Bill and CSUSA is that Bill does not have the errors like they do.

Karl good job in pointing out the quality of service.  It is folks like Bill that have earned and deserve our support.

Mike


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## ed4copies (Apr 7, 2008)

The last order I received from AS had a notice inside, telling me to CHECK everything (including the pen kits) and report any missing parts within 6 days.

This may be fair, but if you are ordering a lot of kits make sure you take the time to do it -- kits HAVE been known to have missing parts.

Bill DOES ALWAYS include some FREE "eye candy", so you CAN consider that the "in case" payback. All depends on your point of view.

Just a FWIW!!


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## Geo in Winnipeg (Apr 7, 2008)

I used to order from him quite often before he stopped shipping outside the US. He always provided excellent service and whenever I phoned he was great helping with any questions I had.


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## toolcrazy (Apr 7, 2008)

Mike,
AS uses Zen Cart, but he has it intergrated his old site into the program. Which, in my opinion, makes it hard to navigate. But, if you know what you are looking for, the search function works great. 

I have never delt with AS on the phone, but I have oredered plenty off the site. I generally get a goodie and the orders have been perfect, every time. Can't ask for better than that.


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## Jarheaded (Apr 7, 2008)

I like the way Bill deals with people. He is blunt and to the point, with no BS. Reminds me of my father.


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## rlharding (Apr 7, 2008)

This homage to Bill seems to appear almost every month. Two things come to mind for me.
1) I wonder if Bill has instigated the thread.
2) I wonder if buyers like the freebies more than they like Bill.

I'm a straight talker, I welcome it in others. I find Bill not to be a straight talker but rather down right rude to the point of being offensive.

Several IAP members have mentioned experiencing this behaviour and also saying they will not shop with AS again.

Having a 1-800 # is a business tool, it is not inherent that one has to be short, sharp, and blunt. 

Karl my friend, getting an earful from you is not what I desire, neither do I wish to have my opinion of Bill as being treated as any less than yours and other posters.


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## karlkuehn (Apr 7, 2008)

Near's I can tell, Bill has no idea that I posted this. As far as freebies go, the last group buy I did, there wasn't a freebie in sight, so that's not my motivation either.

Basically, what I really appreciate is the fact that he didn't waste a bunch of time calling me on the phone to tell me I should've insured the shipment, he just took care of it himself. Had I not thought about it, I probably would never have known that he'd done it.

I just like his mentality of going the extra mile for the customers whether they know it or not. It's like the way he packs his boxes. I swear he must use a gallon of glue making sure that they stay sealed up and safe.

I value your opinion as well as my own Ruth, you know that! I'm just sick of seeing the "I don't do business with AS" statements that get made without an explanation.

As far as Bill's abrupt attitude any rejection or hurt that I've ever received from him has been far outweighed by the warm fuzzy feeling that I got after talking to him today and knowing that he just took care of my needs, even without me knowing that they were needs.

I really sorta freaked out when I thought about what would happen to my business account if a $1400 box of kits got ran over by a truck and I was held responsible for the contents. Bill just took care of me, and it was nice to be able to relax about the shipment.

There's your earful! Who else wants a little!? [] hehe


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## GBusardo (Apr 7, 2008)

Seems to me everyone has their favorites. I have never talked to Bill, but whatever I have ordered came as I ordered and came quickly. Some of his pricing is low, some high but his freebies are nice. I get some personalized notes and freebies from other vendors also. My biggest pet peeve is that I cannot seem to buy all I need from one vendor. For example, I need 150 dollars worth of supplies, I need to go to three vendors.


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## hunter-27 (Apr 7, 2008)

> _Originally posted by GBusardo_
> 
> Seems to me everyone has their favorites. I have never talked to Bill, but whatever I have ordered came as I ordered and came quickly. Some of his pricing is low, some high but his freebies are nice. I get some personalized notes and freebies from other vendors also. My biggest pet peeve is that I cannot seem to buy all I need from one vendor. For example, I need 150 dollars worth of supplies, I need to go to three vendors.



Very true, I was glad to find AS as a source however for most of what I "normally" need.  
As far as Bill----Awesome businessman IMO.  Opinions are what they are and as frequently shows up on IAP I quote:  "If you don't like what I say or do, don't look or listen. You always have an option."  end quote.


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## RonSchmitt (Apr 7, 2008)

> _Originally posted by GBusardo_
> 
> My biggest pet peeve is that I cannot seem to buy all I need from one vendor. For example, I need 150 dollars worth of supplies, I need to go to three vendors.



AMEN!!! If I could get the Jr Gent II at A S or BTW, I would be in heaven


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## pipeyeti (Apr 7, 2008)

I wasn't going to weigh in here but, what the heck. My first experience with AS was kind of strange and put me off a little  I got the ruff and gruff Bill on the phone. I decided what the heck and went ahead and ordered online although I would prefer to order over the phone.  The order went fine. A few days later placed another. Fine again plus freebies, cool. Placed a rather large order for kits somewhere around 50 or more. They all showed. Did I inventory every single part? No, my mistake. Found about 2 weeks later that one of the kits was missing the nib but had 2 tops in it instead ( carbera kit). I placed another order about $500 and also called Bill to explain the situation told him what had happened and was told that I had five days to report it and that since it was outside that time he would not take care of it. Like I said I wanted things to work so I continued with my 500 dollar order and just kind of hoped he would go ahead and make it right. When the order showed everything I ordered was there but not the missing part.There was also about 6 or 7 freebie blanks. I thought what the heck why send free wood and not just send me the part I needed? I called Bill and spoke with him about it. His response was that he adds freebies for every order over 50 bucks. Ok. I asked why not just send me another kit it would have been less money than the wood at his cost. He said that he only gives 5 days because there is alot of dishonesty in this buisness and that he would go broke if he fixed everyones mistakes. Implying that I was lieing about the missing part. I explained that I would not be placing anymore orders with him because of this, his responce was that I should shop with CSUSA because in his words "they have deeper pockets". All I wanted was what I had paid for. How many of you inventory every piece of every kit you order? If you are ordering 50 to 100 kits at a time as I do that sure is a pain. I'll do my shopping with suppliers who trust me and stand behind thier products. Not only do I make and sell pens and tampers but I run a bike shop as my full time real job. If I treated my customers this way I would be out of buisness. I refuse to do buisness with people who do not provide me with reasonable customer service. Now before anyone gives me an earfull these were my experiences and I did try to work it out with Bill before ranting here.


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## kenwc (Apr 7, 2008)

I can't say enough good about AZ and Bill.  I bet he'd actually be fun to hang around with.  I wrote him once and told him of some predrilled bottle stoppers I had gotten that the hole was too large for his bottle stopper chuck.  I had written him just to tell him this was happening because I had already glued hardwood dowels in place and re-drilled.  He wrote me back and more or less thanked me for using my head and not really complaining about it.  Also he posted my testimonial on his Norseman Drill Bits on his websire so I'm a little bias.[8D]


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## Ron in Drums PA (Apr 7, 2008)

> _Originally posted by rlharding_
> 
> I'm a straight talker, I welcome it in others. I find Bill not to be a straight talker but rather down right rude to the point of being offensive.
> 
> Several IAP members have mentioned experiencing this behaviour and also saying they will not shop with AS again



Me for one. I'd sooner quit turning.


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## hunter-27 (Apr 7, 2008)

> _Originally posted by pipeyeti_
> 
> I wasn't going to weigh in here but, what the heck. My first experience with AS was kind of strange and put me off a little  I got the ruff and gruff Bill on the phone. I decided what the heck and went ahead and ordered online although I would prefer to order over the phone.  the order went fine. a few days later placed another. fine again plus freebies, cool. Placed a rather large order for kits somewhere around 50 or more. They all showed. Did I inventory every single part? No, my mistake. found about 2 weeks later one of the kits was missing the nib but had 2 tops in it instead ( carbera kit). I placed another order about $500 and also called Bill to explain the situation told him what had happened and was told that I had five days to report it and that since it was outside that time he would not take care of it. Like I said I wanted things to work so I continued with my 500 dollar order and just kind of hoped he would go ahead and make it right. When the order showed everything I ordered was there but not the missing part.There was also about 6 or 7 blanks freebies. I thought what the heck why send free wood and not just send me the part I needed? I called Bill and spoke with him about it His response was that he adds freebies for every order over 50 bucks. Ok. I asked why not just send me another kit it would have been less money than the wood at his cost. He said that he only gives 5 day because there is alot of dishonesty in this buisness and that he would go broke if he fixed everyones mistakes Implying that I was lieing about the missing part). I explained that I would not be doing anymore orders with him because of this his responce was that I should shop with CSUSA because in his words "they have deeper pockets". All I wanted was what I had paid for. How many of you inventory every piece of every kit you order? If you are ordering 50 to 100 kits at a time as I do that sure is a pain. I'll do my shopping with suppliers who trust me and stand behind thier products. Not only do I make and sell pens and tampers but I run a bike shop as my full time real job. If I treated my customers this way I would be out of buisness. I refuse to do buisness with people who do not provide me with reasonable customer service. Now before anyone gives me an earfull these were my experiences and I did try to work it out with Bill before ranting here.


I'll risk it and bite on this.  I guess I'll start with yes, Bill could have done as you asked but then again, you could have done as he asked, and checked your order.  So far it is an even trade as I see it.  Next on the list I guess is you mentioned what "freebies" he sent were worth more than your missing kit(or part) so I guess I'd hush up and order another kit.  Besides I'm guessing if you had taken your freebies and smiled a little while posting a request on here, Someone(myself included) probably has an extra nib they would send you for free. The lesson here as I see it is you CHOSE to place the orders.  Bill POSTED his policy governing missing parts on the website.  You did not comply with his store policy, I see no reason for you to be upset with him. Yes, Bill could have done things differently as well but neither of you DID do it differently so I see it as an even wash of sorts.  Now that I've said my piece, I'll go back to being my normally mild mannered self.


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## pipeyeti (Apr 7, 2008)

> _Originally posted by hunter-27_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't want to get into a pissing match there is no point but , Like I said my mistake I didn't inventory every single part. I don't make wood pens so why smile at the free wood? Why should I come on here and ask someone to send me what I had already paid for. thanks for you input but I'll place it in the round file. Also I didn't start the post or recommend anyone else not do buisness with Bill I posted my expeirience that all.Take it for what its worth your happy with you service, good for you.


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## loglugger (Apr 7, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Ron in Drums PA_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



There is no room for very rude in any business, I won't be back. I had order from him and was happy, sent 2 of my brother in laws to him and he was rude to both of then at different times and didn't say anything to me about it. I called anouther order and got a ear full of rude and that was enough. Then I heard from the outher 2, they will not be back.
Bob


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## Russianwolf (Apr 7, 2008)

I was going to post something else, but it could have been considered as rude to some of the other posts.

I'll just say that I've ordered from bill several times and have nothign but good things to say. I like his business as he has much better plating options than most places.


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## rjwolfe3 (Apr 7, 2008)

We ordered for the first time from AS and at the same time another order from CSUSA.  Our order came super quick from AS and even though there was a problem with our bank, Bill was willing to wait an extra day and rebill our checkcard without any complaints.  We did check our order carefully and did find one sheet missing from the MicroMesh that we ordered which Bill sent to us just as quick even though the stuff is packaged for him by the manufacturer.  All in all we thought it was great service and will order again.
On the other hand, our order from CSUSA is still screwed up.  We only ordered two things but because one was sanding sealer they had to ship UPS ground.  At the time of our order they had everything in stock. After 10 days when our order finally showed up, the sanding sealer was not in there because it was back ordered.  There was no phone call, email, or letter saying they were out of stock.  Their website said it was in stock.  Now we have paid $7.98 in shipping for one little bushing kit and waited 10 days for it.  The only reason we didn't order it from AS is because he doesn't handle the kit we needed the bushing kit for, which is fine.  Long story short, we would much rather deal with a smaller company like AS, rather then a larger company like CSUSA or even PSI (don't get us started on them, still waiting for stuff we ordered three months ago).
That's our story and we're sticking to it!

(PS for those that don't like the shipping policy of AS not shipping overseas, isn't there a way to work something out with another member here in the States.  We're not sure if this legal but just our two cents.)


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## Russianwolf (Apr 7, 2008)

> _Originally posted by rjwolfe3_
> 
> 
> (PS for those that don't like the shipping policy of AS not shipping overseas, isn't there a way to work something out with another member here in the States.  We're not sure if this legal but just our two cents.)



I'll put an offer out there on this. If anyone overseas wants to order from AS, I'll send you my address. You place your order and use my shipping info. When the box gets to me, I'll slap a label on it to you and drop it back at the post. You pay me the actual shipping to you and we're good. I won't open the box unless you request me to check your order.


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## Jarheaded (Apr 7, 2008)

Instead of complaining here about his mannerisms, why don't you just ask him why he is talking to you the way he is. maybe you called while he was just finishing up a bowl that he had been working on for 6 hours and it blew up as he was putting on the finish, I know if you called me at that point, I would probably be a little tense. He runs an internet website store, he does this because he is a turner also and wants to do his work without getting bothered by phone calls. he will answer a question or two, but he doesn't want to explain to everyone that is trying to turn their first slimline how a skew works. Just look at some of the answers to questions that are asked here. How many times do you see something about a dead horse? Do you think that every question that he is asked is the first time he has answered it. I may be way off, but a lot of people that seem to complain about his manners are the same people that don't want to answer a question that is coming from a newbie because they have heard it too many times. Like I said, I like the way he doesn't waste my time by putting me on hold or transferring me to another rep that has no clue either. Personally, I am done dealing with CSUSA because the last 3 orders from them were missing whole kits or just sent the wrong kit or even worse, when I called and placed the order I was not told that they stopped carrying the product and had to find that out when my order arrived minus the kits. I have never had that from Bill, so I will continue to deal with him. If he is rude with me, I have no problem telling him to speak nicer to me instead of just taking it, but I have never had that problem. I guess some of us see rudeness in different levels, I don't want to be sweet talked, I just want to buy some materials. I am assuming that those of you that find him rude have never called the IRS 800 number to ask a question.


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## thetalbott4 (Apr 7, 2008)

What I believe Bill was intending by saying that CSU has "deep pockets" is that the money they make off of kit sales is secondary to what they do on tools, lathes, wood, ect, but is Bills primary income. It's unfortunate that enough people try to slip one by that he has to impose the 5 day rule. Kinda like pre-paying at the gas pump. They arent saying everyone is a thief, but that there are enough out there that they have to inconvience everyone. 

No doubt, Bill is not a "people person", but that doesnt matter to me much as I do all of my ordering online. I also check every order as soon as I get it, but I do that with ALL orders or purchases that I make. It's an old habit I picked up as a teenager working in a receiving department. For me, Bills abrasive personality doesnt overshadow the excellent products that he carries.


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## hunter-27 (Apr 7, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Jarheaded_
> 
> Instead of complaining here about his mannerisms, why don't you just ask him why he is talking to you the way he is. maybe you called while he was just finishing up a bowl that he had been working on for 6 hours and it blew up as he was putting on the finish, I know if you called me at that point, I would probably be a little tense. He runs an internet website store, he does this because he is a turner also and wants to do his work without getting bothered by phone calls. he will answer a question or two, but he doesn't want to explain to everyone that is trying to turn their first slimline how a skew works. Just look at some of the answers to questions that are asked here. How many times do you see something about a dead horse? Do you think that every question that he is asked is the first time he has answered it. I may be way off, but a lot of people that seem to complain about his manners are the same people that don't want to answer a question that is coming from a newbie because they have heard it too many times. Like I said, I like the way he doesn't waste my time by putting me on hold or transferring me to another rep that has no clue either. Personally, I am done dealing with CSUSA because the last 3 orders from them were missing whole kits or just sent the wrong kit or even worse, when I called and placed the order I was not told that they stopped carrying the product and had to find that out when my order arrived minus the kits. I have never had that from Bill, so I will continue to deal with him. If he is rude with me, I have no problem telling him to speak nicer to me instead of just taking it, but I have never had that problem. I guess some of us see rudeness in different levels, I don't want to be sweet talked, I just want to buy some materials. I am assuming that those of you that find him rude have never called the IRS 800 number to ask a question.


That should do it.


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## rlharding (Apr 7, 2008)

Johnnie, Is this what is called a 'slippery slope' opinion, you start off with a bad premise and it just goes down hill from there?

I have asked him why he was getting so worked up, more abuse was all that gained.

Lets not get off track and make this thread about newbieâ€™s questions, & the IRS.


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## its_virgil (Apr 7, 2008)

I'm going out on a limb with this suggestion, but I've been out on lots of limbs. Why not just bookmark this thread. It repeats itself several times a year if not more often. Bookmark it and when one wants to badmouth Bill just go read this thread. I'm tired of this thread's subject being restarted over and over. Nothing new has been said. Let's put this to bed.
Do a good turn daily!
Don


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## Woodlvr (Apr 7, 2008)

I am wondering why this post was started anyway.[:0]


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## Texatdurango (Apr 8, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Woodlvr_
> 
> I am wondering why this post was started anyway.[:0]


Because it's that time again![]


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## Tanner (Apr 8, 2008)

I first met Bill on his DVD's.  My first thought was, this guy is funny!  He was the first to teach me this craft.  I then met him at a wood turning seminar behind his wares.  We shook hands and talked a bit.  What a great guy!!!  I have ordered many, many times from him.  Every order has free blanks in it.  I know it's 190 miles from Anthem, AZ to Yuma, AZ, but I could swear he has someone drive my order over the next day.  Seriously, it's sitting at my door when I get home.  The mailman leaves my bigger boxes in the large locked mail slot.  He's kind of like Santa Claus.


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## karlkuehn (Apr 8, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Woodlvr_
> 
> I am wondering why this post was started anyway.[:0]



Uhhhh, because I wanted to say something nice about one of our vendors and thank him for a great transaction?

Didn't realize we weren't supposed to do that. I think this has generated so much negative response that I wish I'd never have posted it. What a shame. [V]


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## loglugger (Apr 8, 2008)

Sorry Karl, not your fault.
Bob


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## B727phixer (Apr 8, 2008)

Karl,
Your point is a good one! Its nice to have as Johnnie says "someone covering your six"
Next time I call AS up I dare old Bil to be rude! I'll clobber him with kindness! Were always quick to complain but rarely do we compliment!


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## DCBluesman (Apr 8, 2008)

There is a certain level of rudeness which is a fairly recent addition to this site.  When a fellow member makes a positive post, it is extremely rude to then inject your vitriolic comments into the thread.  Karl shared a positive experience.  If you want to comment on Karl's experience, fine.  If you want to post your bile, start your own thread.  This is getting ridiculous.


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## woody0207 (Apr 8, 2008)

I've ordered several times from Bill. His shipping is fast, the packaging great, and the occasional freebie even gets dropped in the box. 

There was one time a small problem occurred with an order. He took care of it promptly. He is clear and to the point with his communications. I don't have a problem with that.

I will continue to support his family-run business. Thank you BB.


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## wudnhed (Apr 8, 2008)

I wasn't going to post but what the heck!  I like ol' Bill[}] Altho I have not ordered from him recently, I have done business with him several times, each time was perfect.  LOML and I even went to visit Bill at his operation in Yuma a couple years ago.  He took us in his house, showed us his personal turning work, took us around to see his turning set up and his business set up.  He was VERY personable to us and shared his knowledge of pen turning with us freely.  

I'm not positive but I felt he had been in the military because that seems to be the way he runs his business, straight and to the point with rules to be followed.  Not a bad approach, IMHO especially if your a small family run business trying to "turn" a profit, employ a few people and keep things running smoothly.  

Everyone has different takes on personalities and how people present themselves.  I feel if Bill tried to "get to know" alot of his clients, he would be on the phone for hours talking niceities (sp?) instead of getting orders taken care of so quickly.  
JMHO


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## ed4copies (Apr 8, 2008)

To call these comments "vitriolic" is a bit much.

Arizona Silhouette is a business.  People have given dollars to that business, they have a right to relate THEIR experiences.  For the newer members, this can be educational.  Isn't that one of the purposes of this site?

Unfortunately, when you have a SMALL business, like Arizona Silhouette (and my copier business, BTW), the owner BECOMES the business.  The owner's attitude will establish WHAT people think of the business.  As I walk around town, I am known to one and all for what I have said and done over the past 35 years - I am not always proud of that, but "That's the way it is!".

This community is Bill's version of my Racine.  You've worked to establish a reputation, now you have to LIVE with it, or try to improve it.  Neither is easy.

FWIW


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## DCBluesman (Apr 8, 2008)

My selection of the word vitriolic is with the meaning being "caustic" and I stand by my statement.  Here are a couple of out-takes from the thread.  I am not singling out the individuals, because I donâ€™t have a problem with either of them or with them expressing opinions and describing experiences.  I do, however, think a separate thread would be the more appropriate place for these comments.



> Karl my friend, getting an earful from you is not what I desire


In my (never) humble opinion, that is a caustic and sarcastic comment.  I understand if others view it differently.



> Implying that I was lieing about the missing part


Again, I feel this is a caustic comment.  Bill did not imply any such thing.  Bill simply stated his company policy and the reason behind it.  

Now, regardless of whether or not these comments are vitriolic or bilious, they are inappropriate in the context of the thread.  Karl had a good experience.  What the hell does it matter who has had a negative experience?  Does it relate to Karlâ€™s post.  I think not.  

Got a gripe?  Start your own thread in Casual Conversation.  Thatâ€™s what itâ€™s there for.  

As for Karlâ€™s thread, not one person can argue that Karl feels he was treated well.


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## ed4copies (Apr 8, 2008)

Let me start by telling everyone, LOU is a very good friend - we have met in person, spent a few days together and grown to know each other pretty well.

So I take this opportunity to advise him that he is WRONG!!! (With anyone else, I would have phrased it more diplomatically!)

Karl expressed HIS opinion of a company.  From there on, this is REPORTING.  It's been so long since we saw BALANCED reporting on TV or in a newspaper, we have forgotten what it looks like.  We CAN be FORCEFUL (vitriolic is hyperbole, but I'll go along, for friendship sake) in our statements.  We MAY even insert a little OPINION in our relating of the facts.  But, what we see here is REPORTING!!!   

And, I still contend, it helps people who have not done a lot of business make more informed choices.

Now, Mr. Metcalf, I'll shut up if you will - we can retire to private e-mail and "duke it out" (Lou writes a GREAT e-mail!!)


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## pipeyeti (Apr 8, 2008)

"I'm just sick of seeing the "I don't do business with AS" statements that get made without an explanation."

Lou this quote from karl is the only reason I posted at all. In another post yesterday I received a few recommendations to purchase items from AS. I thanked the people for thier advise but stated that I no longer do buisness with Bill and that I had spoken with him and that was all I had to say. I do believe that statement was what promted Karl to start this thread. Thats why I felt compelled to post my experience.


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## Ron in Drums PA (Apr 8, 2008)

People make mistakes. 
Businesses are run by people
So it is not a far reach to realize that businesses can make mistakes also.

As a business person, I've made my share of mistakes
I've learned over the years the most important thing is how we handle those the mistakes we make.
http://www.penturners.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=35870&whichpage=2#374013


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## Blind_Squirrel (Apr 8, 2008)

> _Originally posted by ed4copies_
> 
> Let me start by telling everyone, LOU is a very good friend - we have met in person, spent a few days together and grown to know each other pretty well.
> 
> ...



Mr. Brown, I believe you sir may be incorrect in your use of the word/term reporting.  I was taught reporting is giving a factual account.  The moment one injects personal interpretations or opinions it becomes editorializing.

I can not recall the last time I saw a report on television.


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## Russianwolf (Apr 8, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Ron in Drums PA_
> 
> People make mistakes.
> Businesses are run by people
> ...


I've made my way all the way to the title of CFO in my career. You won't beleive how many mistakes I've made along the way. Mistakes are natural, it's what you do with them that's important.

I can also say that the rudest person I've intereacted with in ages is a member of this site. I hope they conduct themselves differently when face to face with a customer, as their communications with me on the net have left a lot to be desired.


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## karlkuehn (Apr 8, 2008)

> _Originally posted by pipeyeti_
> 
> ...I do believe that statement was what promted Karl to start this thread...



Let me again say that the ONLY reason that I started this thread is that I really appreciated Bill taking the initiative and paying money out of his own pocket to cover my mistake, and wanted to give him a prop about it. 

The mistake I made in not insuring such a costly package could have been devastating. Bill knows his business well enough to recognize my mistake and he covered for me, and for him it was just another day at the office, but for me, it was a real stress-reliever.

I thought it was worth sharing because we all share experiences, good and bad on the forum. Ron makes a great point about businesses being susceptible to mistakes just like the rest of us. Heck, if I boycotted every business that made a mistake, I'd have to grow my own food, forge my own tools, weave my own clothes and do it all without the luxury of any utilities. 

After re-reading my initial post, I realize that I should have worded it differently and left out the 'throwing of the gauntlet' about the 'earful' thing. I sort of invited this mess, and should have just said my positive thing and been done. [B)]


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## Blind_Squirrel (Apr 8, 2008)

> _Originally posted by karlkuehn_
> Heck, if I boycotted every business that made a mistake, I'd have to grow my own food, forge my own tools, weave my own clothes and do it all without the luxury of any utilities.



And would most likley not be able to work for yourself


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## karlkuehn (Apr 8, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Blind_Squirrel_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



LOL...great point! And, for the record, I'd also have to boycott myself, as I've made a couple of mistakes...

It'd suck not to be able to turn my own blanks.

Sheesh, I've already quit twice and fired myself three times this month! My boss is a jerk when he's working under pressure. He and I kind of have a love/hate relationship, but I'm sick of him pushing and pushing and pushing! It's never enough with him!

I need to go lie on a couch and talk to somebody about my troubles before I go postal and pee in the coffee pot. []


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## Ron in Drums PA (Apr 8, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Russianwolf_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



As a business, we can do a million things right everyday and people will only remember how we handled our mistakes.



> _Originally posted by karlkuehn_
> Ron makes a great point about businesses being susceptible to mistakes just like the rest of us. Heck, if I boycotted every business that made a mistake, I'd have to grow my own food, forge my own tools, weave my own clothes and do it all without the luxury of any utilities



How businesses handle mistakes, even little ones, tells you allot about a person and how they will handle bigger mistakes. This is especially true with small businesses that are run by a single person. With a bigger company all you have to do is ask for their manager to help get a problem resolved. The truth is, some companies are just best avoided after learning how they handle mistakes.

Luckily, there are plenty of other companies I can buy supplies from that are both pleasant and want my businesses.


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## PR_Princess (Apr 8, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Blind_Squirrel_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ed and I just had this discussion off line. A report, as referred to above is a statement or series of statements in the media. Those statements can not be altered once printed or aired. There is no interjection from others after the fact that can be added to the initial "report". This however is a forum, and by it's nature invites opinions.

With that being said, Karl you should have known that there are widely varying opinions of AS. This has been brought up as a topic before, and it would only be natural for comments of all sorts to be expressed. 

Personally, I have ordered from AS and have had *no* problems, *no *issues, and *no *complaints. In fact, I have received prompt and good service, and I will continue to order from AS. Can Bill be a little gruff and rub folks the wrong way? Apparently. But whom amongst us hasn't done the same??? Those who deal with the general public know that it takes a special personality that not everyone possesses. None of us know his side, how many stupid calls he takes every day, or what he was doing just before he got *YOUR* call. Inaddition, Bill also has a business to run, and that sometimes involves making unpopular decisions.

I for one, just appreciate that there is an alternative source out there, a choice, some competition. For my money he is doing us a service.


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## winpooh498 (Apr 8, 2008)

I agree with what has been said about the fast and accurate service from AZ.  But when we have called him we have been told to use the website, when we have emailed he has been very rude and not answered any of the questions.  Now there is a point when being direct and to the point is not being direct and to the point it is just down right being an ... well a jerk.[xx(]  But fine if that is the way he needs to be, the last straw for me was his "Christmas message" on his web site.  Shane and I differ on our opinion with ordering from him, we will see who wins that contest![}] Everyone has bad days, everyone says things with out thinking first but over and over and over is a bit much. [B)]
I will gladly give my money to people how appreciate my business, and show me the respect I show them. [^]
I try to treat people the way I want to be treated.
If I am out of line, I'm sure someone here will try and push me back in line.[:0][B)]


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## rherrell (Apr 8, 2008)

I don't have anything but praise for AS.....nuff said...


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## Jarheaded (Apr 8, 2008)

> _Originally posted by rlharding_
> 
> Johnnie, Is this what is called a 'slippery slope' opinion, you start off with a bad premise and it just goes down hill from there?
> 
> ...



Ruth,
 This whole thread was started as a way of saying how Bill helped out and that he was a good guy to do business with. Someone else turned it into a free opinion about Bill and AS and I stated mine. If you asked him why he was being rude and he got worse like you said, why didn't you just tell him to go to h***. My comment about the IRS was said with a smile and a laugh, you should maybe go back and reread some of the threads from the past year and see how threads go off course sometimes. I could bring up a few, but I'm not here to waste my time arguing with you. But if you wish to continue this discussion with me, then please feel free to PM me and we can talk. I have just as much right to say what I have to say as you do.
 To end this part, I like Bill and will continue to deal with him. Karl, I am sorry this had to happen on a thread that was started about Bill doing the right thing for you while you are helping the rest of us with a group buy.


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## Kalai (Apr 8, 2008)

Hi everyone, I think this is all my fault, in the past I have sent Bill at AS a bunch of Macadamia nuts, all kinds, salted, ranch flavor, chocolate covered and a bunch of others and I send him some other local Hawaiian favorites like Kona coffee and stuff like that, well to make a long story short I have not sent him any for awhile and since he did tell me I got him addicted to this stuff so I think if there was ever anythink bad on his part it was because of this.
I can tell you a longer story of how he is a good and honest person and then a few other stories after that.
Everyone think Hawaiian and Aloha
I will get Bill some Mac nuts ASAP
Take care all of you folks and aloha from Hawaii.

Kalai


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## wolftat (Apr 8, 2008)

Johnnie,
 You're wasting your time with this. I'll meet you at the shop in a bit and we can get some work done. You know your place on the ladder and just stay where you are. 
 And while I'm here, Bill has always taken great care of me when I needed anything. If this thread was about Steebar instead, someone would be jumping up and down about beating a dead horse. Seems like you can't say something nice about someone here without getting beat up for it. 
Ruth , last time I read something from you about how Johnnie was picking on a company that robbed him because they were in Israel. You were telling him about how tough it is over there and how if it was any other country it may be different. Are you aware that Johnnie has spent better than 10 years in the Middle East and while attempting to do his job and keep peace, he broke almost every bone in his body due to an explosive device and has been going through surgery for over 4 years now because of it. Are you aware that he worked side by side with the Israelie army and spent time in that country too. You know nothing about him, yet you feel that it is okay to make personal attacks against him, even when someone said some unnice things about you and he defended you. The thread that this refers to is about BOW.
 I think I am going to sign out now and go elsewhere. Too many narrow minds here.


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## Verne (Apr 8, 2008)

Well, I really shouldn't but...! I consider Bill my friend. Yes he has gotten gruff with me, yes I have had pieces missing, and yes I continue to order from him. Oh, my bride has also gotten gruff with me and sometimes supper isn't what I wanted, and yes I still love her. For 38 years...only wish I had another 30+ to enjoy BB and his products.
Vern


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## fafow (Apr 8, 2008)

Just my two cents here.  I have ordered twice from AS.  Both times I got my order fast and it was correct and packed well.  I have never called.  I have sent an email and got a fairly quick response (that was not rude).  I have absolutely no reason to go elsewhere.  I shop for best price for the plating and kit that I want.  If Bill offers the best price, then I will buy from him.

Verne, I like you analogy.


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## Texatdurango (Apr 8, 2008)

*Karl* Iâ€™m glad you had a good experience with A/S and you have every right to post whatever is on your mind but I just gotta ask..... You HAD to know this was going to happen didn't you?[:0]

Being a member since August you no doubt have read at least four, five or more of these A/S praise/bash/argument/discussions and should have seen this coming! 

Personally I think these threads are harmless as long as everyone remembers that EVERYONE is allowed to voice their opinion and to keep personal attacks and smart-alecky remarks out of the discussion.  It gives everyone a chance to add their 2 cents to a discussion where there is no right or wrongâ€¦ just opinions!

As an exampleâ€¦ If someone wants to make a big deal over the â€œfreebiesâ€ and swear allegiance to the company because of them that is their prerogative.  I have the same right to say that I think they are just a gimmick (that seems to be working) and I have never gotten a freebie that I found useful for anything!

I've gotten rude, arrogant non-service as well as decent informative service from A/S and actually boycotted doing business with him for many months then realized I was only punishing myself!  If he has what I want at the best price, why spend more elsewhere just because of his attitude?  I've dealt with far worse issues in life and survived!

*Dawn,* I'm not sure but I think there is a limit as to the number of emoticons that can be used in one post! []


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## karlkuehn (Apr 8, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Texatdurango_
> 
> *Karl* Iâ€™m glad you had a good experience with A/S and you have every right to post whatever is on your mind but I just gotta ask..... You HAD to know this was going to happen didn't you?[:0]
> 
> Being a member since August you no doubt have read at least four, five or more of these A/S praise/bash/argument/discussions and should have seen this coming!



You are correct in that I should have seen this coming. 

You are incorrect in assuming that I _had_ to know this was coming. It never even crossed my mind that this post would end up having a negative impact at all. I was excited and posted as such without really thinking out the possibility of where it would go, otherwise I'd never have worded it the way I did. 

My motive was to give Bill some positive feedback on the site, plain and simple.

Firstly, I shouldn't have come off so flippant and make it sound like a challenge to all those who have had bad experiences. I could have worded it in a much less aggressive manner, although that doesn't seem to help much any more.

Second, although I really think it's a shame to have to do it, I should have politely requested that if anyone has enough of a beef with Bill that they want to flame him in public to please do it elsewhere. It's the same amount of button clicks to start a new thread instead of getting digs in on mine. I didn't go rooting around in the archives and relight a fire, I had a NEW experience that I wanted to share. If anyone has had any NEW negative issues with Bill, those should've been posted at the time if it's really worth mentioning. Otherwise, if a person has already posted about a bad transaction, then duly noted, you're on record as posting about it, move along. 

You know what? *I want to make a very clear public statement:* I don't come on here looking for a fight. As a matter of fact, I'm so flippin sick of all of the pissy, cantankerous, underhanded passive-aggressive cat fight posts around here that I want to throw up, and to assume that I'm sitting here having the time of my life like some punk troll means that you don't know a thing about me.

I'm not at all sorry that I posted positively about my transaction, but I wish I would have taken a little extra time to go through every permutation of possible outcomes and taken steps to prevent the negative.


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## BigShed (Apr 8, 2008)

I would love to buy from AS, but it is one those US companies that thinks the world stops at the US border.

So I continue to do business with a US company that isn't so shortsighted and appreciates my business, a big thank you to Ernie at Bear Tooth Woods.


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## CrazyBear (Apr 8, 2008)

Hey guys....chill out.. Life can be far too short to take so much stress.. None of us are getting any younger and High blood pressure is a Baaaaaaaad thing.

We are too close to being a family on here to start falling out over who has a good or bad experience at a particular outlet. Hey at least you have a decent choice of kit over there..


C'mon guys and dolls lets not have a west side story here it is the dawning of the age of aquarius after all


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## OldWrangler (Apr 8, 2008)

Ol' Bill sure don't waste no time on his emails. I wrote wanting some info and received a one sentence reply which was of no help. I will still buy from him as I like the Baron kit and he has some kinda lock on it. I just won't waste any time expecting any friendly service.


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## rlharding (Apr 8, 2008)

> _Originally posted by wolftat_
> 
> Johnnie,
> You're wasting your time with this. I'll meet you at the shop in a bit and we can get some work done. You know your place on the ladder and just stay where you are.
> ...



Neil,
Your post really interests me: especially since I believe my question in the BOW thread was directed to the posters, if it was to Johnnie, it was still a question. 

Of further interest to me is that you have taken what I supposedly said in that post - I haven't gone back to read it as you did - and turned it on its head.  I asked the question that went something like this 'would you have the same response if it was another country'  I think I even listed a few countries to get across my point. 

From what I understand from the rest of your post, you appear to make a cause and affect link between Johnnie's service in Israel; a post about bad service in Israel from a company selling BOW; and, my two responses to posts of Johnnie's.

You would have to explain it to me further because I'm darned if I can figure out the connection.


This is the third time I have been named in a post while at the same time a torrent of accusations/attacks have been delivered.  Statements purporting to be what I actually said many weeks ago have been presented out of context - as an example, a sympathetic pm that I sent to one person asking him to 'let go' as he was only making a fool of himself (I recall that he was getting hammered by other posters and at the same time kept coming up with things that were taking him down and he didn't appear to realize) was presented by this person in a way that indicated I simply sent him a nasty pm and told him he was making a fool of himself. 

It interests me that it appears nobody else get's mentioned and attacked in this way - or maybe I should say no men get attacked in this way.  I don't know why you and a couple others feel a need to do this, perhaps I have threatened you in some way. Perhaps you are afraid to take this tack with a man, but think it's OK to berate me this way.  Interesting wouldn't you say.


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## wolftat (Apr 8, 2008)

Everyone, I may have been a little out of line before, but that seems to be what is going on here lately. I joined to learn more about pen turning. I just got done spending 25 years of my life in the military, most of it was in combat situations, I am now going to look for some peace and I'm not finding it here. I am just going to sign out and not bother coming back. Karl said it very clear and those are my feelings also. To most, I wish you the best, to the rest, good luck. Good Bye


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## bitshird (Apr 8, 2008)

My one transaction with Mr Baumbeck was very satisfactory, to me, some of his gruffness come through on his web site, BUT it is or should be obvious to any one that he prefers to business via the internet than on the phone. I can only say that his service was very fast, but in view of Pipeyeties &lt;sp&gt; comment I will check each kit I order with in the alloted 5 days. Mater of fact, I was going to place a small order with him this evening.
I still maintain his site is a PITA after using the shopping cart, it takes for ever to re navigate back to the pen kits or what ever else your looking at. other than that. I can stand gruff and rude, after all I've been dressed down by Cav, just for inquiring about cheap Chinese Cross style refills. Some of my students think I can be abrasive, opinionated,acerbic,rude, unfair and just down right mean. My Shepherds on the other hand love me. some times rudeness is in the mind of the insulted.[}][}][}][B)]


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## Verne (Apr 8, 2008)

With all the twists and turns this thread has taken...me thimks it's time it is closed.
JMHO
Vern


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## wolftat (Apr 8, 2008)

Oh come off it already, you're not the only woman here, you're just the only one that stirs the pot.I wouldn't care if you are a woman or a man if I have something to say, the only difference is that being a woman, I was nicer about the way I said it.If you don't want to read about ex-wives,don't. You don't like it if we don't spend the day searching for an answer instead of asking. the reason I used your name was because it seemed like you were going after my brother, so i responded. You can have the soap box all to yourself now, because I am out. I came back after a phone call telling me to take a look. It's all yours have fun. Like I said Good Bye and good luck..


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## IPD_Mrs (Apr 8, 2008)

I have half heartily read this thread after it became distasteful.

It turns my stomach that this thread has become so vile over someone just commenting about getting good quick service.

I think it would be a wise move if a Mod would close down this thread before anyone else gets hurt over a person thanking a vendor publicly.

Mike


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## wdcav1952 (Apr 8, 2008)

Excellent idea, Mike.  I have made that request as I can only moderate the one forum, Members In Need.


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## MesquiteMan (Apr 8, 2008)

ENOUGH ALREADY.  GO TURN SOMETHING EVERYONE!!


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