# denatured alcohol problems



## Rifleman1776 (Sep 2, 2005)

Based on the advice who use it for their pens, I have begun using denatured alcohol a/k/a DNA for cleaning my turned pens before applying finishes.
  I have encountered problems with this technique that may dissuade me from using it further. The first time I used it the freshly sanded to 12,000 MM (that's Micro Mesh ultra-fine grade) blank raised it's ugly grain and I had resand before applying finish.       
   Today, doing a bloodwood blank with nice white maple inlays, the DNA caused the 'blood' in the bloodwood to 'bleed' into the nice white maple. Not fatal to the project but not what was desired either.
  Voices of experience with DNA solicited.


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## Old Griz (Sep 2, 2005)

Are you using the DNA between sanding grits or just after the final sanding.... you are supposed to use it between each sanding grit to remove the sanding dust... and like any liquid it will raise the grain a little...


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## vick (Sep 2, 2005)

Frank,
  Not sure if it is right or not but I have stopped doing the DNA on non oily woods after my last 2 grits of MM before finishing.  I have not done any oily wood since I have changed my method, so not sure what I will do when it comes time.  I would be interested in others opinions on this.


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## smoky10 (Sep 2, 2005)

I was under the impression that it wouldn't raise the grain also. The only blanks I've used it on were oily woods like cocobolo and had no problem.


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## MDWine (Sep 2, 2005)

As I was advised, don't need to really soak the blank either.  As you approach final dimentions, lighten up on the quantity.  You're only looking to remove the dust, not soak the pen down... DAMHIKT []

...been there, done that, got the messed up wood to prove it! []


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## JimGo (Sep 2, 2005)

I almost fell off my chair when I read your post, Frank.  First, YOU are using MicroMesh???? [:0]  (don't hit me!)  And second, you used an Acronym!  What is this world coming to???  []

If you wipe with DNA early enough in the sanding process, as Tom suggested, any grain raising should be sanded out by the subsequent sanding grits.  It should also help get rid of the sanding dust that causes the "bleeding", but you might consider compressed air or a tack cloth in lieu of the DNA where you have drastic color changes.  You could also try sealing the wood early on with CA or a sanding sealer to help prevent the bleed-over.


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## Dario (Sep 2, 2005)

To date I always use solid wood (meaning no laminates/glue ups) so can't comment on bleed-over.

I never had any problems with DNA too but maybe just my luck that I use sanding sealer earlier that I don't really get grain swell when I use DNA.  It might also helped me that I use spray bottle to apply it....just a spritz on the turning blank with a paper towel on the other side and I am done.

BTW, I rarely use DNA after I started using MM too, since I always had the thought that MM don't loose their grits like regular sandpaper does.


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## RussFairfield (Sep 2, 2005)

It isn't the alcohol that is raising the grain, but the water that is absorbed into it. 

Alcohol can absorb a lot of water, 30% or more, in the form of atmospheric moisture without any change in volume. That happens every time the can is opened and a fresh charge of air is introduced. It gets worse as the can is emptied.

That raising of the grain can be a good thing. By removing it, you will have a better sanded surface under the finish. One of the reasons for a pen finish coming apart is the raising of the grain from atmospheric moisture, perspiration, wet hands, or spilled water.  It might be better to remove the fuzz now than have it happen later in the hands of the user. 

There are 2 ways to get rid of the raised grain. One is to buy the alcohol in small cans, decant it into a squeeze bottle for use, and hope for the best. The other is to use mineral spirits to clean the wood. Use lacquer thinner if want it to evaporate faster. Neither will have the problem with absorbed water, and neither should raise the grain.


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## Mudder (Sep 2, 2005)

> _Originally posted by RussFairfield_
> <br />
> There are 2 ways to get rid of the raised grain. One is to buy the alcohol in small cans, decant it into a squeeze bottle for use, and hope for the best. The other is to use mineral spirits to clean the wood. Use lacquer thinner if want it to evaporate faster. Neither will have the problem with absorbed water, and neither should raise the grain.



I learned something today.

Thanks Russ.


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## JimGo (Sep 2, 2005)

> I learned something today.
> 
> Thanks Russ.


I learn something every time Russ contributes!  Thanks Russ!


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## Dario (Sep 2, 2005)

Me too...learned a new thing again.  Thanks Russ!


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## Rudy Vey (Sep 2, 2005)

First of all I do not use alcohol for my pens, I drink it (but not DNA, only single malt).
For my pens before applying a finish I use the little alcohol swabs one would use to clean the skin before an injection. They can be found at Sam's Club, and cost about $5 or for 200. I use one swab for two pens, it works well. The alcohol in the swabs is Isopropyl alcohol, also commonly known as rubbing alcohol.


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## dubdrvrkev (Sep 2, 2005)

This comes at a good time as I am still experimenting from my change from acetone, which is also hygroscopic but I never had a problem with raising the grain. I got a quart of DNA and Mineral spirits and have been using both successfully but now I have something to watch out for.


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## JimGo (Sep 2, 2005)

Rudy,
I've found rubbing alcohol to have serious effects on other products, and have sworn off its use except on my person.  I used rubbing alcohol on some plastic in my car - it turned the black plastic a very light grey, and it had a powdery consistency.  With a little skin moisturizer (it was an accident!), the plastic returned to a normal color, and thankfully it was in an area of my car where it wasn't a big deal, but it was still a pretty nasty outcome.  DNA, on the other hand, doesn't do this to plastic.  As a result of my experience, I am not a big fan of using isopropyl alcohol on anything valuable (had a similar experience with wood).  Just a word of warning.


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## Rudy Vey (Sep 2, 2005)

> _Originally posted by JimGo_
> <br />Rudy,
> I've found rubbing alcohol to have serious effects on other products, and have sworn off its use except on my person.  I used rubbing alcohol on some plastic in my car - it turned the black plastic a very light grey, and it had a powdery consistency.  With a little skin moisturizer (it was an accident!), the plastic returned to a normal color, and thankfully it was in an area of my car where it wasn't a big deal, but it was still a pretty nasty outcome.  DNA, on the other hand, doesn't do this to plastic.  As a result of my experience, I am not a big fan of using isopropyl alcohol on anything valuable (had a similar experience with wood).  Just a word of warning.



Use them now for over two years and never had any problem with it so far. But I must say I never use it on plastics, only on wood. The charm of the swabs is that they just so handy, no need to find that little squeeze bottle with the alc and rag....


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## Rifleman1776 (Sep 2, 2005)

JimGo said, "I almost fell off my chair when I read your post, Frank. First, YOU are using MicroMesh????  (don't hit me!) And second, you used an Acronym! What is this world coming to??? "
 Saying what the world is coming to would take to long for here. Read my book. [] But, yes, I am trying MM acquired in a trade. Jury still out on that. Strange stuff. Please note: I explained in English what stuff was before acronynmizing it. [][]


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## Rifleman1776 (Sep 2, 2005)

Thanks all, I'm going to re-read all the advice, then like a good curmudgeon, decide for myself what to do. [] Actually, I had considered that anhydrous, water loving, alcohol had adsorbed moisture from the air when opened for use. And, like Tom said, any liquid will raise grain. Makes sense and not a bad thing. I'll use in early sanding then avoid later. Don't recall that I had ever turned bloodwood before, so the 'bleeding' thing wasn't anticipated. It's a never-ending learning process.


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