# Guess: Craft Coat or CA?



## NittanyLion (Dec 1, 2014)

Guess which finish this is.....Craft Coat or CA?  I'll give a hint:  It's not CA:laugh:

So I've been playing with a bottle of Craft Coat this week, and here are the results.  The pic is taken with my IPhone, I apologize.  In the end, I have a finish that is 95% of what a CA finish is, without the smell, mess, cracked finish, etc.....  No other alternative I have found gives me the depth like CA.  Not sure of the durability, but I am satisfied with the look.


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## William Menard (Dec 1, 2014)

they use this stuff on basketball courts, I'm sure it will hold up, looks great, i use it on wood and gator jawbone.


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## avbill (Dec 1, 2014)

Lacquer will give you the durability and the shine.  Yet MOST turners  will not allow the lacquer to harden first before polishing it. My woods sit for 45 days before polishing.  Yes I do very few woods.


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## Dan Masshardt (Dec 1, 2014)

Looks pretty good Steve.  

Have you experimented with your process to get the result you're happy with?


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## robutacion (Dec 1, 2014)

avbill said:


> Lacquer will give you the durability and the shine.  Yet MOST turners  will not allow the lacquer to harden first before polishing it. *My woods sit for 45 days before polishing*.  Yes I do very few woods.



G'day,

The number of wood pens you make, has nothing to do with the amount of time, most chemical products that are made as a finish, require to set/cure properly, 98% of these products will require 14 days for the full curing process to complete, your 45 days seems a little excessive, the difference is that, some of those products are made to produce a hardened surface within a much shorter period of time, some a couple of days and other a couple of minutes.

Believe it or not, even CA will take days to cure properly, the thicker the coat the longer it will take however, this is the finish of choice among most penturners, just for the simple fact that, if allows for things to get "finished" rather quickly...!

Ideally, pen coated/finished with artificial products, should be left in store/resting for a couple of weeks before put for sale, handled, etc., this would avoid many nasty situations some penturners get into because, they went from making it to expose it (sale, handle, etc.) too quickly and "reactions" can occur that can be resolved or even minimized while in "resting"...!

Sure, making pens is so well received due to its fast start to finish stages, the quick gratification is infact, one of the reasons some people turn pens.  I'm no exception, I do prefer a finish that gets the job done, fast, I like most of you, hate to wait particularly, being stuck waiting a few times through the making process of a pen, but not only...!

With this said, the day "they" invent a product that can do what the CA does, with all its various viscosities, being harmless to us and cost the average prices we pay for normal CA, I would one of the very interested persons, I use in average 10 litres of CA each year, 98% of that is the very thin CA (5cps) used to soak various of my made blanks, at certain stages of their making, there is nothing out there that I know of, that can replace this very thing and hot CA...!

Those pen barrels look to have a good shine and depth, I would suggest you to finish them on a buffing wheel, to remove the circular marks and deepen the finish even more...!

Cheers
George


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## NittanyLion (Dec 1, 2014)

Dan Masshardt said:


> Looks pretty good Steve.
> 
> Have you experimented with your process to get the result you're happy with?




Yes Dan, I went through many methods to get this.  In the beginning....not too good.  In the end,  I applied each coat like CA, wait almost a minute between coats....did about 12 coats.  Allow to cure for 24 hours, then micro mesh.  This is where u need to be careful.  I start with the second pad, only two seconds on each blank.  For every pad I go up, add a second or two.  You really need to be careful not to remove all of the finish in spots.  The first several pads will eat right through all 12 coats real fast.

George is right, a good polishing will help with the final small scratches.


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## NittanyLion (Dec 1, 2014)

avbill said:


> Lacquer will give you the durability and the shine.  Yet MOST turners  will not allow the lacquer to harden first before polishing it. My woods sit for 45 days before polishing.  Yes I do very few woods.



Bill,

I've tried this, with no success.  Maybe it's the humidity(basement shop), or bad lacquer, but as coats get thicker(dipping), the lacquer gets gummier and never sets up right.   Have you experienced this?


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## Bowhnter (Dec 2, 2014)

I have been using craft coat for a while,  but could not get rid of the swirl marks to my satisfaction when I was applying with the lathe on.  I recently (this week) have resolved to apply with a foam brush with the lathe off, and then turning the lathe on for a few minutes, and either apply another coat, or if it was still wet would set it aside for an hour before the next coat. So far, this is eliminating the swirl marks to my satisfaction. It takes less coats due to being applied thicker.


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## Dan Masshardt (Dec 2, 2014)

Anybody tried dipping in craft coat?


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## NittanyLion (Dec 2, 2014)

Dan Masshardt said:


> Anybody tried dipping in craft coat?



Yes....I plugged my tubes and dipped, allowing about an hour dry time.  I still had build up on one end, even with botching it on a towel.  Didn't work for me.


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## Janster (Dec 2, 2014)

CC was not my friend! I personally found it to be less enduring than CA by miles! I had one pen comeback within 4 months. I stripped it down and refinished w/CA and Blo, customer is as happy as a clam. He has had the newly finished pen for near a year. I see him 2 to 3 times a week as he works out at the same gym as do I. If there was a problem I would be the second to know as he would be the first!


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## jfoh (Dec 6, 2014)

I have been using Qual. Lac on a number of pens for several years now. Wear resistance and finish durability have been good unless I fall into building it up too thick. Then ti tends to chip if hit in small spots. I spray it on using a refillable spray can. The key for me was multiple coats and letting it dry, then cure, before final sanding if needed or polishing. We get into too much of a hurry sometimes and do not let things cure fully before we go onto the next step.


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## ClutchCargo (Dec 22, 2014)

jfoh said:


> We get into too much of a hurry sometimes and do not let things cure fully before we go onto the next step.



I've been a serious woodWORKER for over 20 years (but a relatively newer woodTURNER). Years ago, at one of the woodworking shows, the featured presenter asked the audience what percentage of completion we were at when our project was just ready to start the initial finishing. The correct answer was *50%* (not a typo). Of course it would be difficult, if not impossible, to finish both the inside and outside of a rectangular jewelry box or a chest of drawers using a CA finish. Spraying lacquer is the industry standard for those types of items for various reasons, not the least of which is the superiority of the look of the final finish and also its durability. But lacquer takes time to fully cure, is flammable, and requires working with a respirator. There's a process commonly referred to as *"finishing the finish"* or *"rubbing out the finish"* which takes an already great looking finish even further in terms of depth and shine, and this is where you wait weeks until *fully cured* before you start rubbing out the finish with pumice and rottenstone, followed now by high end liquid automotive polishes to maximize the sheen. It's a lot of work, but when it's properly done, the results are astonishing and it's what separates good work from really great work.

On my woodworking projects, after letting the finish of my choice completely cure for a few weeks, I will "finish the finish" with a three-step product  system made by a German company called *Menzerna *(used by the Steinway and Baldwin piano companies, as well as Martin guitars). It's pretty hard to argue with the quality and depth of finish on a black lacquered Steinway piano! I then complete the process with *Behlen's OZ cream polish *which dries to a high luster, repels dust and absorbs harmful UV rays. The hardest part of the entire process is developing the patience to wait for the finish to cure before starting the rubbing out process. I find that the instant gratification of the pen turning process doesn't contribute to developing that patience. Case in point: with CA finishing, we seem to measure curing time in minutes, and when using an accelerator, it's reduced to seconds!


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## Crashmph (Dec 22, 2014)

Dan Masshardt said:


> Anybody tried dipping in craft coat?



I have been experimenting with this.  I have dipped a few pens to test this process out.  I did plug the tubes.  The excess drained to the plug so there was no bulge on the tube.  

Here is my process so far as I am still working out the process:



I have plugs with eye screws in both of the ends of them and hang the tube to dry on a hook.
A quick dip on each tube, hang to dry
Wait 30-90 min 
3a. Alternate step - use a heat gun or hair dryer if in a hurry
A quick dip, hang to dry with the tube inverted to the opposite side up from step #2.
Repeat steps 2-4 for 6-8 total coats.
Quick wet-sand of micro mesh from 2400-12000. 
6a. Alternate step - quick wet-sad with 2000 grit wet-sand paper and then polish with Woodcraft's Polarshine Polishing Pack (this stuff has lasted about 100-150 pens now)

This process is not 100% yet, but it is about 95% there for me.  It takes a little longer to do for a few pens at a time, but the finish has been very easy for me to do about 20-50 pen tubes at a time rather quickly.

Full disclosure: I am a rep for Eco Advance, and Eco Advance is the manufacture of Craft Coat (Craft Coat). 
Polarshine Polishing Pack


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## NittanyLion (Dec 22, 2014)

Crashmph said:


> Dan Masshardt said:
> 
> 
> > Anybody tried dipping in craft coat?
> ...




Thanks for the tip.  So what are your expectations, or proven results on the durability of CC?  Is it prone to wear, cracking or spiderweb, or peeling after a period of time?


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## Crashmph (Dec 24, 2014)

NittanyLion said:


> Thanks for the tip.  So what are your expectations, or proven results on the durability of CC?  Is it prone to wear, cracking or spiderweb, or peeling after a period of time?



I have never experienced any cracking or spiderweb effects with CC.  I have had CC peel off before, but I figured out why.  Do not sand past 600 grit before applying CC. From my experience, the surface becomes to slick for CC to adhere. YMMV...

As for the wear issue, some my first pens finished with CC show some wear to them, but I have drastically changed my application method from the first time using CC.  I have a few everyday carry pens that have been in my rotation for six months or better. They all still look good as new on the finish.

Another note about CC... CC is flexible after it drys/cures to the extent where when wood moves a little it does not splinter the the finish as a CA finish will.  I do not claim to know the science behind this, but I have done a side by side challenge of my CA finish vs my CC finish with some Pink Ivory (this wood is always a challenge for me) and the CA cracked where the CC did not. Again... YMMV

Michael


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## butchf18a (Dec 24, 2014)

With this said, the day "they" invent a product that can do what the CA does, with all its various viscosities, being harmless to us and cost the average prices we pay for normal CA, I would one of the very interested persons, I use in average 10 litres of CA each year, 98% of that is the very thin CA (5cps) used to soak various of my made blanks, at certain stages of their making, there is nothing out there that I know of, that can replace this very thing and hot

Cheers
George[/QUOTE]

10 liters a year??? WOW!!! 2.64 imperial gallons, with standard bottle being 4.6 oz, that equates to 73 bottles. Now i can easily get 80 pens out of a single bottle, and feel I'm quite liberal in my application. Still that is 5,878 pens per year, or 16 per day every day. Assuming 8 hours to eat and sleep, thats still 1 hour per pen all day every day.

George don't misunderstand I am not challenging your word. You say you use that much, then you use that much. I just wonder if and when you find time to eat and sleep.


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## snyiper (Dec 26, 2014)

George also stated he used a lot in some of his blanks at different stages I would guess most is used in spalted or soft woods to try and stabilize somewhat that in itself can lead to a lot of CA use!!


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