# ?? Enhancements to Celtic Knot pens ??



## Warren White (Feb 3, 2016)

So many questions....

I would like to enhance my Celtic Knot pens with metal on either side of the wood inlay.  I hope I am not asking too many questions of those whose business it is to make these beauties.  It is something I want to try as I improve my skills.  Nearly all of my pens are slimline, in case that makes a difference in the approach I should use.

1.  I hear that flashing is a choice for the metal.  Is that what you suggest, and/or are there other choices?
2.  Do you scuff the metal so the glue/epoxy holds?  How?
3.  What type of glue/epoxy have you had success with?  What should I avoid?
4.  Any suggestions regarding drilling the combination metal/wood inserts?
5.  How do you trim the metal to the blank as you are assembling the pen blank prior to turning.  I have used a chisel for the wood, then sanded, but I haven't a clue regarding trimming the metal.
6.  Do normal tools work for turning the blank with metal enhancements?
7.  Any precautions or suggestions not covered by my questions?

Again, I hope I haven't overstepped any boundaries here.  I know many of you sell your pens and it isn't my intention to compete in any way.  If these are trade secrets, I respect that.

Thank you for your consideration.  I am so impressed by the artistry shown in the work of members of the IAP.

Warren


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## jttheclockman (Feb 3, 2016)

Warren White said:


> So many questions....
> 
> I would like to enhance my Celtic Knot pens with metal on either side of the wood inlay.  I hope I am not asking too many questions of those whose business it is to make these beauties.  It is something I want to try as I improve my skills.  Nearly all of my pens are slimline, in case that makes a difference in the approach I should use.
> 
> ...



Hello Warren

First off ask all the questions you want. There is absolutely no trade secrets to making this type segmentation. So many  people are doing them. 

I will try to answer some of your question in a manner that works for me. You will get varied ways of doing things but find one that works for you. 

As far as enhancing with metals and a good choice would be aluminum and you can get this in flashing material in any home center. I recommend not to use soda cans as some may suggest. You need to have a clean surface and to do this just take some 150 grit sandpaper and wrap around a block of wood and sand both sides of the metal. What is key though you need to match the infill layers with the size of the saw kerf. Just want it to be snug and not too tight because you need room for glue. My glue of choice is always epoxy and I use System III T88 but other 5 minute epoxy is fine. I like more open time.

Now as far as cutting the blank and the sled used I suggest you do a search for this because it will get too lengthy to address all this. But the jist is do not cut all the way through the blank so that it is easier to glue up. Make the infill material (sandwich) small enough so it does not stick out past the sides. 

The blank will be fragile to drill so sharp bits are a must. Slow speed is a must. Cool bits and blank is a must. And an added precaution many people wrap the blank in gauze or popsicle sticks before drilling. What I do is just add some thin CA to the outside of the blank before drilling and it has worked for me. 
 I always glue my tubes in with epoxy because it dries with some flex to it which is important to me when working with woods. 

Turning these blanks can be done with any good quality sharp woodworking tools. The metal is not that thick. 

Good luck and hope that answers some of your questions.


By the way you do not always have to use metal to enhance a celtic knot. You can use pickguard materials or as I did here just wood veneers.:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:


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## Krisfiz (Feb 3, 2016)

I've just recently seen a youtube video using soda cans cut up as an inlay to create celtic knot pens. It would be an inexpensive way to start!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMd5p-sLn68
this guy has several other videos on a similar theme


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## jttheclockman (Feb 3, 2016)

Krisfiz said:


> I've just recently seen a youtube video using soda cans cut up as an inlay to create celtic knot pens. It would be an inexpensive way to start!
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMd5p-sLn68
> this guy has several other videos on a similar theme



I told you someone would suggest a soda can.:biggrin:
Flashing is so cheap and you get more than you will ever use from a small roll. The problem with soda cans is contamination. You need to strip the paint off (some say you don't but I am not taking that chance) and you need to clean the inside from the soda. Any contamination can have a negative affect on your glue job. You will have enough problems to worry about when you are lining things up and then drilling down the center and these must be drilled dead center. Cutting up a round can could also prove dangerous. But has it been done, yes it has and people are successful doing it. But again for the time and efort I am putting into making one of these I am not taking a simple chance as that. Not worth it. But good luck and happy turning. Love to see what you come up with.


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## Warren White (Feb 3, 2016)

*Thank you!*

John, that was exactly the information I needed.  Thanks.  Your pens are fantastic!

I looked at two of the videos using pop cans. I didn't like the fact that you could see the color through in a couple of places. I will try it using some flashing. 

Thanks to both of you. 
Warren


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## Krisfiz (Feb 3, 2016)

That'll teach me to read your post more carefully in future John! Agree that flashing would be the better option given everything you point out. Thanks again for the advice and those pens look really good. Look forward to seeing Warrens pens
Chris


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## jttheclockman (Feb 3, 2016)

Krisfiz said:


> That'll teach me to read your post more carefully in future John! Agree that flashing would be the better option given everything you point out. Thanks again for the advice and those pens look really good. Look forward to seeing Warrens pens
> Chris





Thanks Chris. You can use soda cans and many people have done so. But it takes some extra work.  Many people sand the paint off and sand the inside and you have a piece of aluminum. I believe it maybe just a tad thinner than flashing too. Just not for me. Happy turning.


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## DougDrury (Mar 8, 2016)

*Beautiful Pens jttheclockman*

I have made quite a few celtic knot pens, and like you have used inlaid veneers to enhance the knot, but I have never seen the wood inside the knot changed out with another species before.  Ive been thinking about how you achieved this all day, and have a few ideas about how it was done, but haven't come up with an idea on how it could be done safely and with consistent sucess.  Would you be willing to share your method?

Doug Drury
DBD Workshop
"Still an amature  - always will be..."


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## jttheclockman (Mar 8, 2016)

DougDrury said:


> I have made quite a few celtic knot pens, and like you have used inlaid veneers to enhance the knot, but I have never seen the wood inside the knot changed out with another species before.  Ive been thinking about how you achieved this all day, and have a few ideas about how it was done, but haven't come up with an idea on how it could be done safely and with consistent sucess.  Would you be willing to share your method?
> 
> Doug Drury
> DBD Workshop
> "Still an amature  - always will be..."



Welcome to the site Doug and glad you saw my post and made it your very first post on the site. Not sure if you know how to use the search feature here so this maybe somewhat awkward


Doug you are over thinking it:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin: A lot easier than you know. I will play a game with you. I have given this answer here before because I have shown this quite a few times before. If you do a search here you will find the answer but if you can not find it I will be happy to tell you. Tell me what you find and when and if you want to give in. :biggrin: All in fun.

I remember when I made those pens I did not have 2 the same kits. So I had to put one on a Sierra Vista and the other on a Sierra. Have corrected that problem these days.:biggrin:


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## SteveJ (Mar 9, 2016)

jttheclockman said:


> I will play a game with you. I have given this answer here before because I have shown this quite a few times before. If you do a search here you will find the answer but if you can not find it I will be happy to tell you. Tell me what you find and when and if you want to give in. :biggrin: All in fun.
> 
> :biggrin:



Thanks for nothing JT....I know eventually I could find the instructions, but I got stuck looking at some of the great pens you have shown here and now have four more pens on my bucket list....


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## jttheclockman (Mar 9, 2016)

SMJ1957 said:


> jttheclockman said:
> 
> 
> > I will play a game with you. I have given this answer here before because I have shown this quite a few times before. If you do a search here you will find the answer but if you can not find it I will be happy to tell you. Tell me what you find and when and if you want to give in. :biggrin: All in fun.
> ...


  S


Sorry Stephen. I know I keep saying it but eventually it is going to happen. I will return to the shop. A few new things came up that I need to take care of first. But I will add a few more to your bucket list if I can get them done right. 

Hope you found the answer.


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## DougDrury (Mar 9, 2016)

Hi John,

I played your game but you won.  I searched, found your original post back in 2009 when you showed the pens, found lots of other posts regarding swirls and feathers.  I search the library, blank preparation, whole bunch of places.  I found that you are a very prolific poster (5,000+Posts) but I don't have time to read all of your posts.  Please either give me some hints and clues on what to search on, or tell me where the post is hidden.  I really did look, just no success.

Doug


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## jttheclockman (Mar 9, 2016)

DougDrury said:


> Hi John,
> 
> I played your game but you won.  I searched, found your original post back in 2009 when you showed the pens, found lots of other posts regarding swirls and feathers.  I search the library, blank preparation, whole bunch of places.  I found that you are a very prolific poster (5,000+Posts) but I don't have time to read all of your posts.  Please either give me some hints and clues on what to search on, or tell me where the post is hidden.  I really did look, just no success.
> 
> Doug




Ok Doug I will show you the blanks before they were turned and let me know if that clicks in.:biggrin:  A couple years ago I was involved on another forum and we did a whole couple weeks of trying to figure it out with a few of the members. When they found out i was glad I was not standing next to them because they sure as heck would have tared and feathered me


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## DougDrury (Mar 9, 2016)

I think you are right, I was over thinking it.  I thought of the method first, but for some reason I thought I'd end up with the wrong top/bottom at the end (was thinking it was an odd number of cuts for some insane reason).  Will go to the shop tonight and see if I really do have the method right.  Thanks for the slap to the side of head.

Doug
Still an amateur, always will be...


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## Dale Lynch (Mar 9, 2016)

You can do it on the cheap using less accurate hand power like I did for the bash a couple yrs ago.http://www.penturners.org/forum/f13...ts-120142/?highlight=valentines+gift+segments


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## jttheclockman (Mar 9, 2016)

DougDrury said:


> I think you are right, I was over thinking it.  I thought of the method first, but for some reason I thought I'd end up with the wrong top/bottom at the end (was thinking it was an odd number of cuts for some insane reason).  Will go to the shop tonight and see if I really do have the method right.  Thanks for the slap to the side of head.
> 
> Doug
> Still an amateur, always will be...



I knew it would come to you.The key answer here you have to cut all the way through the blank every time. 2 different looks can be had too. When Doug comes back with his rendition he will give the details for all. Spanx has shown some how to's also.


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## DougDrury (Mar 9, 2016)

Yup, theory worked.  Thanks for the idea.  Now lots more exploding in my brain...

Doug
Still and Amateur, Always will be...


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## jttheclockman (Mar 9, 2016)

DougDrury said:


> Yup, theory worked.  Thanks for the idea.  Now lots more exploding in my brain...
> 
> Doug
> Still and Amateur, Always will be...




Look forward to seeing what you come up with. Red white and Blue is always cool.


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## magpens (Jun 20, 2020)

OK, thanks Richard. . I will try that.


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