# End of my penturning?



## Dario (Mar 18, 2008)

I haven't been turning much lately because it is not fun anymore.

Not fun because of my eczema (allergy?) attacks.  Despite the heat/sweating, I turn now with gloves and I still get flare up on my fingers.  Not sure if it is the wood, the accelerator, CA, etc.

Every flare up, I have to treat myself with hydrocortisone for a week or so to stop the cracks/bleeding and oozing.  There are times when I can hardly bend my fingers due to thickened skin and pain.  Just one pen though and the eczema attack starts again! [xx(]

If this keeps up...I really might have to give up penturning. OUCH!!! [V]


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## leehljp (Mar 18, 2008)

Dario,

We can't lose you here! What do you need? Have you tried nitrile gloves? What about a mask?, What kind do you have? 

I went from a mask to a Triton and now to a good dust collector system. I have used rubber gloves for over a year. If I don't have the Triton on or the DC system going and If I also don't use rubber gloves, I get severe flu like symptoms for 2 or 3 days and sometimes get double vision.

Take care of yourself.


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## GBusardo (Mar 18, 2008)

Hi Dario,   Have you thought about turning just acrylic for a while? No more need for CA. What you need to do is rule stuff out.  If you start doing ok with out the wood and CA, you could introduce maybe one type of wood, like oak and see what happens. I always thought eczema outbreaks were due to nerves, I guess I was wrong.
Dont give up the ship with out trying!


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## jcollazo (Mar 18, 2008)

Say it isn't so[:0]

Have have seen a dermatologist or gotten the battery of allergy tests? Is it any wood? Acrylic? The paint on the walls in your shop? I'll be praying for you. Even though I've never met you I've read your posts here and on Woodnet and you know what you're talking about.

Man, oh man.


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## Dario (Mar 18, 2008)

Hank,

Respiratory is okay, my 3M mask seems to be sufficient.

It is my fingers (pointy and middle of right hand and thumb and pointy of my left) that are reacting.  It starts with small watery dome (almost like insect bite) and they grow sideways until fused as one...then my skin cracks. If I don't treat it...it just keeps on going.  Old ones heal then new ones start again.  Lately, I've been doing damage control by "draining" them using a nipper as soon as I see them. Seems helping but having sore (and embarrassing) fingers 3 weeks in a month turning 2 pens or so is not worth it.

My finger nails are starting to show "damage" too since the eczema crept to the nail root area.

I guess I will have to see a dermatologist.

Man, the things we endure for our hobby. LOL

BTW...even if I stop turning (which I hope will not happen).  I will stick around here.  [] LOL

Thanks!


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## Woodlvr (Mar 18, 2008)

Dario, You have to stay regardless of what happens. I am very close to also selling off all of my equipment so I know how you feel. See a doctor soon and get well please.


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## LEAP (Mar 18, 2008)

What a bummer, Hope you find a solution, Else we'll have to all chip in and get you a hazmat suit. It might be a little ackward but the bright yellow would look sharp.


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## MichaelS (Mar 18, 2008)

See a dermatologist, I had the same problem about 5 years ago when I first started turning pens. The Dermo gave me an RX for Eldel (think that is the wrong spelling). Also cut down on the CA it can and will make some people sick. Use as stated above Triton with good dust collection also a double air filter with remote that hangs from the ceiling. Try Nitrile gloves a hazmat suite and take it off outside with the gloves still on. Also good hand cream from the Dremo, every night. I suffered from cracked skin on finger tips bleeding, extremely painful and worse for three years and it sucks. I know it sounds like alot unless you want to start gardening then what to do in the winter.


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## Dario (Mar 18, 2008)

Michael,

If you are talking about Elidel...I've used it.

I am using nitrile gloves now but it is possible that my fingers are still exposed while removing the gloves.

Thanks!


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## England14 (Mar 18, 2008)

Dario, check your e-mail.


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## airrat (Mar 18, 2008)

Dario I hope you get it figured out.  Would hate to see you stop.


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## DocStram (Mar 18, 2008)

Dario ......
The exact same thing happens to me.  It's been going on for the last three years. At this very moment I have four band aids on my fingers. Cracks slowly start and grow deeper and longer, usually about 3/4 of an inch. Then, they start to bleed. The pain is relentless.  Sometimes, I can't even type.

I'll be at the office and look down to see blood smears on my shirt from my fingers bleeding.  The other day I went to pass back some tests to my students and my fingers bled onto a student's paper.  Disgusting. 

I'm teaching a computer class this semester. It's awful when I reach down to show a student something on the computer and they see my fingers such a mess. 

The pain often keeps me up at night. 

I've been to a dermatologist time after time after time. When it gets really bad he injects cortisone into each of my finger tips. Pretty exciting, as you can imagine.

Nitrile gloves aggravate the condition.  The perspiration makes things worse. 

Let me know if you find a solution.


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## Dario (Mar 18, 2008)

> _Originally posted by DocStram_
> 
> 
> Let me know if you find a solution.



Al,

Will do my friend.

Seems like your case is worse! [:0]


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## Russianwolf (Mar 18, 2008)

Dario , not quite the same but I've had "non-specific dermatitis" for years. On mine I get dry blisters (no fluid ever in them that I've seen) then they open and the the skin beneath is so tender and dry that it cracks and if I'm not carful about putting oitments and creams on them, they crack to the point where they bleed, especially in the joints. For me the worse is my pointer and middle on the right hand, but it sometimes comes up on the left too. never had it it on either ring or pinky. I'vce given up trying to figure out what it is. let me know if you do and I'll give the cure a try.

I'm also going to have to take a hiatus from woodwork though. I've appearently become sensitive to some of the dust and won't be allowed back in the shop until I have a good mask to keep it out of my lungs.


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## leehljp (Mar 18, 2008)

Dario,

You are contagious! Look at all the people with similar problems!  Praying for you here! I enjoy your wisdom and part of it does come from your experiences. I sure would hate to see that stop. 

The rest of you fellows, my heart goes out to you. Take care of yourselves!


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## les-smith (Mar 18, 2008)

Hey Dario,

I hope you get a handle on it.  I've always admired your work and input.  I don't have dermatitis, but have always had problems with cracking.  If I wear latex or nitrile gloves I always wear cotton gloves underneath.  A dermatologist told me to try that and it has seemed to help.  I agree with GBusardo, try and rule the bad stuff out.  That'll probably lead to some answers.  I also agree with seeing the dermatologist, it really helped me out.  I hope things get better.


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## jscola (Mar 18, 2008)

Dario, I have a similar problem. Went thru all the test & the deremtologist said I was allergic to some forms of plastics . I have a friend who is a chemist & he says CA glue is a form of plastic. So I try not to use CA glue and also use a ointment (halobetasol propionate 0.05%) The ointment helps quite a bit. Maybe you should see a dermtologist. Maybe they can help you . Don't give up & good luck.       : Joe S.


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## GoodTurns (Mar 18, 2008)

Dario-
Please see the dermatologist!  As others have suggested, maybe you need to come to the dark side and stick to acrylics for a bit...I felt guilty the first couple of times but now I enjoy it!


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## alamocdc (Mar 18, 2008)

I'm really sorry to hear that, my friend! Keep trying preventative measures and ask your local doctor  how you might be able to prevent it... like you haven't already. Don't give up without a fight, buddy!


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## Glass Scratcher (Mar 19, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Dario_
> 
> Snippity-do-da
> I am using nitrile gloves now but it is possible that my fingers are still exposed while removing the gloves.



Are the Nitrile gloves from HF?  When I blast(glass etching) I live in HF Nitrile gloves.  I sometimes blast for 8-10 hrs on various jobs.  When I take off the gloves the "powder" has become a green muck.  My hands are leathery for a few days after long stints.  

You may want to try some gloves that are powder free.  Or perhaps switch to some of the polyvinyl gloves.


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## ashaw (Mar 19, 2008)

Dario

I hope you stay but most important take care of yourself.  I use nitrile gloves for a while but they were give me more problems than solutions.  I then tryied the gloves in suppermarkets you know the yellow one for dishes.  They work great.  I have made about thirty pens so far using the sme gloves.  The only problem the thumb is about 30 sizes bigger then it was.  
Switch over to plastics for awhile.  I can not go never any of the rose woods because of breaking out.  

Again take care of yourself.

Alan


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## leehljp (Mar 19, 2008)

One OTHER suggestion: See an allergist and ask if you can bring some small samples of the major woods along with the finishes that you use. If your specific reactions can be isolated, then it might go a long way to keeping you in making pens. I don't know your insurance situation and if your insurance will pay for it, but at least check it out to see if it is possible.


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## rincewind03060 (Mar 19, 2008)

Have you tried "Gloves in a Bottle"? I have no idea if it would be uesful in your case or not, but it seems worth a try.

http://www.leevalley.com/garden/page.aspx?c=1&p=10256&cat=2,42407,33246

I hope you find a solution. I would be heart broken if I couldn't work wood any more.


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## MichaelS (Mar 19, 2008)

How long did you use the Elidel? It took a LOOOOONG time for it to work on me.


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## Nolan (Mar 19, 2008)

Dario if you need anything just ask.


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## Rifleman1776 (Mar 19, 2008)

Dario, update please. Have you made any decisions yet. We sure would to lose you.


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## Nolan (Mar 19, 2008)

Like this Dario? Mine do this like Doc explained, mine are irritating but thats about it. I trade ten cracked fingers a day and trade it in on my leg anyday. Let me know if you find something that helps, glove make mine more iritated it seems.?? Maybe I just dont like them.


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## DCBluesman (Mar 19, 2008)

Nolan - Next time you are going to post a nude of yourself, warn us! []


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## Nolan (Mar 19, 2008)

> _Originally posted by DCBluesman_
> 
> Nolan - Next time you are going to post a nude of yourself, warn us! []



LOL I have three more I can show you if I "un-dress" them. Its gonna cost you though[:I]


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## Ron in Drums PA (Mar 19, 2008)

What a bummer.

What type of gloves are you wearing?

Did you see a doctor?

Can you turn acrylics?


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## Dario (Mar 19, 2008)

Nolan,

That is very mild.  Mine is like 100 times worse than that.

At its worst, picture the finger of a zombie (not the falling off ones)...and you will have an idea what I am talking about.

Currently, my hands are about healed again and not sure if I am willing to risk it once more.  I do have some acrylics and may give those a try.


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## Nolan (Mar 19, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Dario_
> 
> Nolan,
> 
> ...



Sorry to hear that Dario, like I said mine are mostly irritating, not blistering like you explained but crack and split like Doc did. Mine only get about twice as long as the one pictured. They just crack/split then I put neosporen(sp?) and bandaid on them till they heal. Then do it all over again Would a piece of DI burl make yours feel better?


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## Dario (Mar 19, 2008)

> _Originally posted by MichaelS_
> 
> How long did you use the Elidel? It took a LOOOOONG time for it to work on me.



I know it works and it actually is the one we use for my daughter.  I just fid that it is much slower than 1% hydrocortisone in my case.

I was told by my "local" doctor that I shouldn't use Elidel and any hydrocortisone creams for extended periods of time.  

Same thing is said here http://www.elidel.com/info/elidel_ppi.jsp#2

I normally do it for 5 days to a week and stop.  Can't remember now but she told me about giving my system time to re-adjust/correct itself from the effects of the medicine.

I do respond to treatment well but my problem is the recurrence of it when exposed to "whatever" it is while turning.

That said, I just might try it again...I still have some here.

Thanks!


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## Dario (Mar 19, 2008)

> _Originally posted by n4631x_
> 
> Would a piece of DI burl make yours feel better?



That's what's sad!  

I have lots of your premium wood and I might not be able to use them! [xx(][V] WAAAHHHHHHHHH[B)]


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## Nolan (Mar 19, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Dario_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well just let me know if I can do anything.


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## RussFairfield (Mar 19, 2008)

Dario, you can do a simple test for yourself and identify the allergens. Put a sample on a bandaid, and then put it on the soft skin on the underside of your upper arm for overnight. If there is a red spot or a welt the next morning, you have identified a culprit. If there is nothing, you have eliminated a possible cause.

Start with a couple drops of cured CA glue. Don't use the accelerator. There will be enough residual after the initial cure to cause a reaction. Follow that with a patch that is wetted with accelerator. Then go with little slivers of wood, starting with Cocobolo. Follow that with a patch test of stabilized woods to isolate the resins, and follow that with every exotic wood that you use. 

I'll bet you a pen that you will find the source after the test with the Cocobolo.

The problem with trying to isolate these things without a test is that it may not be caused by the last wood or finish you used, but by the residual dust from a wood or something you used weeks or months ago.

And, it may not be wood related. The binders that hold the grit on sandpaper is also a suspect. Give the sandpaper a test and see what happens.


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## Dario (Mar 19, 2008)

> _Originally posted by RussFairfield_
> 
> The problem with trying to isolate these things without a test is that it may not be caused by the last wood or finish you used, but by the residual dust from a wood or something you used weeks or months ago.
> 
> And, it may not be wood related. The binders that hold the grit on sandpaper is also a suspect. Give the sandpaper a test and see what happens.



Thanks Russ, I'll give the test a go.  Residuals from previous turnings could be it also since there are various dusts everywhere around my work area (even though I vacuum after each session).

The sandpaper theory is very possible.  That and the CA+accelerator are the ones am leaning on more now because of the areas/fingers affected.

Thanks again!


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## Tanner (Mar 19, 2008)

I hope you can figure this out Dario.  You have been a great source of information and inspiration!  Get to a dermatologist and an allergen.


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## Dario (Mar 20, 2008)

For those who are inquiring...I haven't turned a pen for about 2 weeks and my hands are much better.

We will see this coming week because I will have to make some .

Thanks guys!


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## GaryMGg (Mar 21, 2008)

Dario,
I just caught this thread and all's I can say is I hope you find a solution that keeps you turning. It would be a shame for you to lose the ability to share the beauty you produce.


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## OKLAHOMAN (Mar 21, 2008)

Thanks for the update,lets keep our fingers crossed that you find a cure soon.





> _Originally posted by Dario_
> 
> For those who are inquiring...I haven't turned a pen for about 2 weeks and my hands are much better.
> 
> ...


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## Randy_ (Mar 21, 2008)

Dario:  Sorry to hear about your unfortunate situation.  Was this an issue before you moved to far South Texas or has it developed (or been aggravated) since your move?


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## Doghouse (Mar 21, 2008)

Dario, CA is nasty stuff.  I would not doubt that it would be your main problem.  I wear latex gloves when using it, and stopped haveing some of the problems I was having.  Now I have gone back to laquer for finish and epoxy for inlay.


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## Dario (Mar 21, 2008)

Randy,  This have been going on but lately seems to be getting worse.  If it is related to my move I really cannot tell.

John, I will be testing for CA and if it is the culprit, I might have to go with lacquer or Enduro.  My problem is my lack of patience. [8)]  I will have to work on it though if that is the only way.

Thanks!


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## MichaelS (Mar 22, 2008)

Do you use hand cream every night it seems to keep it at bay. My hands get really dry and used to do the same thing as I have said.


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## TellicoTurning (Mar 22, 2008)

Dario,
What ever happens, please stay with us... I enjoy your insight.


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## maxwell_smart007 (Mar 23, 2008)

My dad has Eczema, and has used cortisone every day for about 50 years with no problems thus far!  My sister and her kids have it too, so I'm glad I inherited my mom's skin...

Here's a list of tips for Eczema: 
 Ways to manage your eczema

    * Don't scratch, moisturize!
    * Follow a daily routine, even if there is no visible eczema
    * Take as many baths or showers as you like
    * Keep cool and calm (stress can cause flare-ups)
    * Wear cotton, sleep on cotton
    * Find out what triggers your 'flare-ups'
    * Test any new product for your face or body first
    * Be patient
    * Follow your doctor's treatment advice


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## maxwell_smart007 (Mar 23, 2008)

Just had a thought...you turn with gloves on?  What type of gloves? 

I bought a box of latex gloves, and my dad used a set.  Turns out, his eczema is triggered by latex, so his hands got dry, cracky, and broke out in a rash...

Maybe it's the gloves that are the culprit?  Try latex-free and see if that helps!


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## Shep (Mar 23, 2008)

Dario - I use Man-O protective cream when turning and for a lot of other jobs.  It comes in a tub like a pound of margarine and is about the same consistency.  Grab a blob, and rub it all over your hands until dry. You don't even notice you have it on. It will protect your skin and when you want it off, just wash with soap and water.

When I am gluing tubes, I tend to get CA on my hands and it just washes off with soap and water.  I was blacking some tubes with a Sharpie permanent marker and managed to get black marks on my hands and they washed off with water.  The cream really seems to protect your hands without all of the problems associated with gloves.

I have no connection with the company that makes the stuff, just a satisfied customer.  Maybe it could help you.


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## Randy_ (Mar 23, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Shep_
> 
> Dario - I use Man-O protective cream when turning and for a lot of other jobs.  It comes in a tub like a pound of margarine and is about the same consistency.  Grab a blob, and rub it all over your hands until dry. You don't even notice you have it on. It will protect your skin and when you want it off, just wash with soap and water.



Never heard of this stuff so know nothing about it.  My concern with applying any sort of cream to the hands just before working with blanks is that the stuff would rub off on the blanks and cause problems in the finishing process.


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## darrylm (Mar 23, 2008)

Dario, you mentioned that you thought taking off the gloves might also be aggrevating things, I wonder if giving your gloved hands a wash prior to taking the gloves off might help...

hopefully you can find a solution to keep turning.


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## Dario (Mar 23, 2008)

Thanks guys.

You all gave me a few tricks to try...I've slowed down a lot but definitely far from throwing the towel yet.


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## DCBluesman (Mar 23, 2008)

So far I think switching to acrylics is your best bet, Dario.  Just so you won't be tempted to kick up your allergies again, I will be happy to give your exotics and burls a nice home. [8D]


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## wizical (Mar 25, 2008)

I read all of the posts, Have you tried using "gloves in a bottle" it works well with me against cocobolo and other allergens, maybe for you too.


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## randyrls (Mar 25, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Dario_
> 
> I haven't been turning much lately because it is not fun anymore.
> 
> ...



Dario;   Take a look for Vtek (house-wrap) suits.  They make them with long sleeves and a hood.  Cheaper than a hazmat suit   

The suggestions about dermatologist and possibly allergy doctor are good ones.

Hope it clears up for you.


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## Hastur (Mar 27, 2008)

Hey Dario sorry to hear about your situation with the allergies.  I sure hope you find the culprit and continue doing something you enjoy doing.  I know I do not get on the site much but I have always enjoyed your words of wisdom!


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## helgi (Mar 27, 2008)

Dario:
I just caught on to this thread and here is my two you know what, after being in the painting trade 40 yrs or more, one thing is sure thinners will dry out skin faster than anything else and accellerator and CA are nasty stuff.WE used to before we started coat our hands with a barrier cream then gloves, So if you have any industrial safety supply store around check them out. I think this is the best protection a person can start out I still do use it everytime.Lee Valley or a vetenarian for big animals have a product called bag balm sounds queer i know but works, its mainly used on cows bags before milking. Why LV sells it I do not know, but it sure softens up the skin nice and that's what you want. Hope that this will work for you when you decide to give it a try. I enjoy your insight and ability to share. helgi


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## maxwell_smart007 (Mar 27, 2008)

have you tried talking to Ictoos yet, Dario?  He seems to know his stuff!


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## Dario (Mar 27, 2008)

> _Originally posted by helgi_
> 
> WE used to before we started coat our hands with a barrier cream then gloves, So if you have any industrial safety supply store around check them out. I think this is the best protection a person can start out I still do use it everytime.Lee Valley or a vetenarian for big animals have a product called bag balm sounds queer i know but works, its mainly used on cows bags before milking. Why LV sells it I do not know, but it sure softens up the skin nice and that's what you want.



Thanks guys for all the good input.  I'll surely give this a try.

Andrew, I might if all else fails but don't want to bother him if at all possible. [8)]

Still no turning and my fingers are almost all healed. [^]

Thanks again!


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