# "Snow white holly ".... NOTTTTTT



## txcwboy (Feb 20, 2007)

I bought some "SNOW WHITE HOLLY" from a dealer on ebay. See pic with black background. This is what showed up.The Pic with White background. Is this normal for "SNOW WHITE Holly"? Or does holly acutally get whiter than this ? I wanted to do a pink ivory and white holly but thought it would be whiter. Did I get HOSED ?

Dave


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## Penmonkey (Feb 20, 2007)

I'm not sure about the wood.  I do know that the first picture is very bad.


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## airrat (Feb 20, 2007)

The seller probably changed the color balance is a photo shop program.  There is one on ebay I have heard people talk about but no one has every posted his name.   Hobbit house makes mention of someone but no name either.


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## toolcrazy (Feb 20, 2007)

If I'm right, I've bought from that vender and never had a problem with his items. In fact I bought some rose myrtle burl from them and let them know that it wasn't much of a burl (not wanting or expecting anything done) they cheerfully refunded my money with an apology. Just let them know your not happy, and they will take good care of you.


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## Tea Clipper (Feb 20, 2007)

You say that your second picture has a white background, but all I see is grey.  No offense intended, but how can we judge the color of the blanks if the color of the background is incorrect?  The top picture does look overly white in my opinion.  I have some 'snow white' blanks from AS, and they have just a tinge of yellow to them.


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## DFM (Feb 20, 2007)

Maybe they haves yellow snow where the ebay vendor lives?


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## txcwboy (Feb 20, 2007)

The Grey pic is on a white piece of notebook paper with not enough light I guess.It was mearly to show you the difference in real white and their show white. DFM  hehehehe I think thats the issue ! they have too many dogs near by ![]

Dave


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## penhead (Feb 20, 2007)

From my experience, pure white holly is hard to come by.
It has to be cut when it is _cold_ outside, and dried before it gets warm, otherwise it will 'stain'.


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## LostintheWoods (Feb 20, 2007)

Lighting is obviously not optimum in your second pic, but the fact that the grain pattern is so prominent in a low-light situation would lead me to believe that your holly is not as nice as it could be. I've gotten really nice holly on more than one occasion from Ryan at Woodturningz...might give his a try. The blanks I've received from him are much closer to the first pic than the second.


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## RussFairfield (Feb 20, 2007)

"Snow white" is a subjective opinion when it comes to Holly. While it may be "white" when freshly machined or sanded, even the whitest of Holly ages to a light amber color that looks similar to that of old Ivory. Some Holly will have a slight greenish color before it is dried.


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## mapleleaf (Feb 21, 2007)

Photographing can be tricky.  When using a black background, the thing that is being photographed will be bleached out and too light.  When using white background you get the opposite with it being too dark.  I think the camera gets confused about how dark or light it show be, looking at the background.  I have had best luck using gray or some light color.  Holly is a white wood compared to other woods but not exactly "snow white."  Looking at your two photos, I would say your holly is probably ok.

Gary


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## martyb (Feb 21, 2007)

The seller's picture was "touched up", and the holly has aged since then.
It will whiten up as you work it, but it will again yellow with age.  I turned down a white holly fountain pen a while back.  Blinding white then, kinda yellow now.  Just the nature of holly.


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## TAld (Feb 21, 2007)

Dave,
Please post a pix after you turn a piece. Just wondering if it might turn a little more white after turning.


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## Ron in Drums PA (Feb 21, 2007)

Ain't no such thing as perfect snow white holly.

Holly has to be cut a certain time of the year and below a certain temperature. Then it has to be dried under ideal conditions. If dried to fast it will crack, dried to slow and you will get variations of color from ivory to gray to green. You can get it (I have some) but expect to pay through the nose for it.

If you want your ivory "whiter" you can use a two part bleach that is available on the market that will achieve the white you want. http://tinyurl.com/2ucg93


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## Rifleman1776 (Feb 21, 2007)

> _Originally posted by penhead_
> <br />From my experience, pure white holly is hard to come by.
> It has to be cut when it is _cold_ outside, and dried before it gets warm, otherwise it will 'stain'.



John, you took the words right out of my keyboard. []
Yep, pure white holly is, indeed, a rare commodity. In addition to what you said, it is usually a smallish tree that doesn't produce very much usable wood.
I have been searching for an 'ivory' wood subsitute for a long time. I once passed up a hunk of French, winter harvested, mountain boxwood that cost about $20.00. I could have gotten about a dozen pen blanks out of it. Wish I had bought. The search continues.


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## txcwboy (Feb 21, 2007)

I guess my complaint is that he advertises it as SNOW WHITE and shows pics of it being brillant white. He did offer to refund my money but thats not the point . He will continue to advertise it as SNOW WHITE I bet and mislead other customers. I will leave positive feedback that says MORE LIKE YELLOW SNOW    I want to do a checker board pen with pink ivory and the SNOW WHITE holly. I ll post when I get done.
thanks all
Dave


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## ilikewood (Feb 22, 2007)

Frank, Holly is the best substitute for ivory with the exception of Boxwood.  I have a bunch of French Holly (15 years aged and slightly yellowed) available.  If you would like to try some, PM me your address and I'll ship you a few blanks for free to play with.[]

As far as this thread goes...this guy definitely altered the pict to get the whitest look.  Holly will oxidize to a yellowish tint though, so you might as well expect it.


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## mewell (Feb 22, 2007)

Dave - I'd be happy to send you some Aspen wood too. I'll be cutting up some more for blanks for myself "real soon now" - if you want to drop me a note with your mailing addr. I'll send you some even if you are in Texas []

As a side note, I wonder if the eBay guy is the infamous "BogusColorVendor" referred to on www.hobbithouseinc.com

Mark


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## txcwboy (Feb 22, 2007)

This guy is from VA with 4400+ feedbacks.I left him feedback that said  MORE LIKE YELLOW SNOW HOLLY !!!!!!! but he does so much business that its already in the 2nd page and will go unnoticed. Oh well.

Dave


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## Tea Clipper (Feb 23, 2007)

I just got some white holly from jeffm19 (check the classifieds) and I'm happy with it.  Might want to give him a try. []


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## angboy (Feb 23, 2007)

> _Originally posted by txcwboy_
> <br />I guess my complaint is that he advertises it as SNOW WHITE and shows pics of it being brillant white. He did offer to refund my money but thats not the point . He will continue to advertise it as SNOW WHITE I bet and mislead other customers. I will leave positive feedback that says MORE LIKE YELLOW SNOW    I want to do a checker board pen with pink ivory and the SNOW WHITE holly. I ll post when I get done.
> thanks all
> Dave



Dave- what's your plan on how to sand the checkboard blank without getting pink color into the holly? I'd love to know how to do that!


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## JohnDrayton (Feb 24, 2007)

I too have been dissapointed in "snow white Holly". In my mind I expected it to be bright white, but in fact it is slightly yellow like ivory. A friend gave me a tree that he cut down and I dried some of it in alcohol, It was  "off white",  I dried some in the microwave (when my wife was gone), it too was "off white", The wood that air dried for a year was whiter, but not bright white like I wanted.  I sent Rifleman some of the wet wood, I don"t know if he has ever used it  to see how white iit is.  There are other woods that are just as white and easier to come by.


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## Rifleman1776 (Feb 24, 2007)

> _Originally posted by JohnDrayton_
> <br />I too have been dissapointed in "snow white Holly". In my mind I expected it to be bright white, but in fact it is slightly yellow like ivory. A friend gave me a tree that he cut down and I dried some of it in alcohol, It was  "off white",  I dried some in the microwave (when my wife was gone), it too was "off white", The wood that air dried for a year was whiter, but not bright white like I wanted.  I sent Rifleman some of the wet wood, I don"t know if he has ever used it  to see how white iit is.  There are other woods that are just as white and easier to come by.



John, it is still in the shop. Ends sealed and waiting to dry. Since this thread began, I started thinking about it again. May cut and micro zap. Also, someone here once said they bleached their holly. It's worth a try on scrap or one blank.


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## hrigg (Feb 24, 2007)

Just a reply to no one in particular--when I want white wood for accents, I do well with birch.  Haven't tried to make a pen out of it, though.


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## txcwboy (Feb 25, 2007)

Angboy   not sure yet on the sanding procedure. I was told to sanding seal it at each grit and that worked good.Havent tried it yet though. I need to figure out how to cut the 3/4" blocks to glue them up with out chopping a digit off ! []

Dave


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## mick (Feb 25, 2007)

Dave I've bought from probably the same seller on ebay and have always been very happy with what I got. I guess "Snow White" is a little misleading but Holly is probably the whitest wood you'll find. All I've got from this seller is a very striking ivory color with very faint greyish veins running through it. <b>This is not a</b> <b>highjack</b> but heres a pen I made out of some of the Holly I got from him.



<br />

As far as sanding it without getting the pink ivory dust in the holly. I always turn to size with my trusty 1/2 inch skew and then before I sand or anything I blow off the blanks and then apply a good heavy coat of thin CA with a paper towel. This acts as a sanding sealer and allows you to sand without contaminating the lighter woods. You may need to apply another time or two as you sand through the grits. Just watch your sanding dust, as long as it's a white powder, you're sanding CA []
 Ain't the IAP just grand!!!


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## hrigg (Feb 25, 2007)

Nice looking pen.  Did you make the CB, or did it come that way?


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## mick (Feb 26, 2007)

> _Originally posted by hrigg_
> <br />Nice looking pen.  Did you make the CB, or did it come that way?



Harry, the stars centerband is a kit available from Ken Nelsen <u>www.kallenshaanwoods.com</u>


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## hrigg (Feb 26, 2007)

Thank you for the information and the link.


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## Rifleman1776 (Mar 1, 2007)

Bill (ilikewood ), just received the holly blanks. Lookin' good. I didn't realize it would be French holly. The two big ones have Gentleman fountain pen written all over them. Big time THANKS from Arkansas.


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## ilikewood (Mar 2, 2007)

Your welcome Frank.  That Holly was harvested in the Pyranees Mountains in France.  From what I understand (and this could be wrong, so if anyone knows please correct me), the Holly is harvested in the winter and is only allowed for about 1 month.  The big difference I have seen between the American Holly and the Frech is the mineral staining.  Some of the French Holly is darn near blue/gray at times, and then can be very white as well.  It yellows to a beautiful ivory color though.


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## Rifleman1776 (Mar 9, 2007)

> _Originally posted by Rifleman1776_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...



Update: John, I took a look at the holly you sent me. I had slabed the sides and sealed the ends with Anchorseal. I dated it May '06. Dunno how dry/wet it still might be. But, I'll wait until May to cut and turn a piece, give it a full year. It has been indoors in my shop.


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## Rifleman1776 (Mar 9, 2007)

> _Originally posted by ilikewood_
> <br />Your welcome Frank.  That Holly was harvested in the Pyranees Mountains in France.  From what I understand (and this could be wrong, so if anyone knows please correct me), the Holly is harvested in the winter and is only allowed for about 1 month.  The big difference I have seen between the American Holly and the Frech is the mineral staining.  Some of the French Holly is darn near blue/gray at times, and then can be very white as well.  It yellows to a beautiful ivory color though.



For experiment, I put the extra sample piece you sent in about a 24% solution of bleach last night to see if it would whiten up more. It is drying now. Will update in a day or two.


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## ilikewood (Mar 9, 2007)

Interesting.  I suppose I should have thought about doing that since I used to work for a research facility that was in the pulp and paper industry.  They don't use sodium hypochlorite (bleach) but use chlorine dioxide which should produce the same type of effect.  It was 15 years ago, so I'm not even sure they use ClO2 anymore because it produced dioxins as a byproduct.  Peroxides were starting to be used...which probably could be tried on wood as well.[]


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## Rifleman1776 (Mar 13, 2007)

The experimental piece has dried out and is now a very pretty nearly-white ivory color. I am happy with this test. I'm on the way out the door for several days. When I return I'll post a picture if I can get the colors right with PhotoShop. Now, I'm faced with a decision. I will be making two pens for a wedding gift. Do I bleach before turning, or after? I think after. But that will really slow down the process. I'll have to think this through.


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