# Hybrid Cambridge kits



## jttheclockman (Feb 11, 2011)

Has anyone done one of Timberbits Hybrid Cambridge kits yet???  I am looking to put in an order and was wondering how it compares to the other Cambridge???  Does this still have the black ring on the centerband???   Love to see a photo if you have done one. Thanks.


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## Russianwolf (Feb 11, 2011)

the piccie on his site shows the black bit.


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## ed4copies (Feb 11, 2011)

I'm putting on my "Berea reseller" hat here, and I mean no offense to anyone.  So, please don't take offense.

BEREA introduced the Sierra---there are Chinese copies using the same name---they are NOT BEREA Sierras.

BEREA introduced the Ultra Cigar----there are Chinese copies using the same name---they are NOT BEREA Ultra Cigars.

BEREA introduced the Cambridge and Cambridge Hybrid, there are Chinese copies (the current copies say they came from Taiwan, but they admit they are copies)----They are NOT the BEREA Cambridge.

I have asked Berea to enforce their copyrights---to try to stop these forgeries from using their names.  They have indicated they are "working on" doing so.  I guess the legal system takes a LONG time.  I would LOVE to see these forgeries confiscated by customs. (As they do with name brand leather goods that say "Gucci").

But, can we please at least differentiate, so that when they develop difficulties with fit and finish, the BEREA name is not dragged through the mud.

Thank you for your consideration to those of us who put a value on Berea's reputation for reliable fit and finish.

Ed


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## RodNeep (Feb 11, 2011)

ed4copies said:


> I have asked Berea to enforce their copyrights---to try to stop these forgeries from using their names.  They have indicated they are "working on" doing so.  I guess the legal system takes a LONG time.
> 
> Ed



The copyright, and even the trade names have no meaning to China! They do whatever they wish with impunity! It is thier law to be able to do so.

The USA's oldest guitar manufacturing company C F Martin & Co., Est. 1833 recently attended a musical instrument expo in Shanghai.... to find another company set up in the hall. C.F. Martin & Co. Est. 1833. With the same branding, same logo, same products. That company is selling guitars worldwide, including to the USA. The US company has raised the matter with the US government, who, it appears, are more concerned about maintaining trade links with China to do *anything* about it!

Rod


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## Jim in Oakville (Feb 11, 2011)

jttheclockman said:


> Has anyone done one of Timberbits Hybrid Cambridge kits yet???  I am looking to put in an order and was wondering how it compares to the other Cambridge???  Does this still have the black ring on the centerband???   Love to see a photo if you have done one. Thanks.



yes I have, look at a post I made on SOYP called Customers Choice,


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## jttheclockman (Feb 11, 2011)

Jim in Oakville said:


> jttheclockman said:
> 
> 
> > Has anyone done one of Timberbits Hybrid Cambridge kits yet??? I am looking to put in an order and was wondering how it compares to the other Cambridge??? Does this still have the black ring on the centerband??? Love to see a photo if you have done one. Thanks.
> ...


 


Thanks Jim. What did you think of the kit?? Have you made one of the Cambridge kits from Berea and if so how do they compare???.


I just looked at your post you refered to and that is not one of Timberbits kits. I made Cambridge kits but i am looking to compare those to the Timberbits. I guess I will just have to order some and see for myself. the price is reasonable.


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## jttheclockman (Feb 11, 2011)

Just wanted to make a point here because Ed posted that these are not Berea kits. He is right but Dave spells that all out in his add on this forum. No one stated there were Berea kits and as far as the name goes that is something the courts and people with more authority than anyone here has to make those dicisions. 

Now the problem lies here when making decisions as to what to buy and where. Dave is a very reputable seller and stands behind his product. That should not be an issue. Buying from Aus. may to some be an issue but again he is reputable.

My question was if anyone has made both kits and do you see any physical differences and if so what are they???

Getting into who makes a better kit is something we as buyers have no clue and rely on past experiences from others and this is a good source to read about them. If Dave has got a source to make kits and is cutting out the middle man and passing the savings on to us who are we to say they are inferior kits to what we use to see. They maybe just as good or even better but the markup is lower. We as buyers are not privied to the makeup of the platings and the thicknesses used or whatever methods are used to appy to each kit and we again have to rely on reputation. We all know the better grades of plating but there are different ways to apply and who is to say one is better than the other. 

All I am after is is there a difference to the kits. Just like the Sierra line, there are major differences.


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## ed4copies (Feb 11, 2011)

Let me clarify that it is not my intention to besmirch the reputation of Timberbits.  I have never dealt with them and therefore don't know, one way or the other.

My point is, if they believe their "kit" has better plating and is more durable, why not call it something DIFFERENT????  Then, as time proves them right or wrong, they will be building or destroying their OWN Brand, not Berea's.

If they have  faith in their product, this would be automatic in today's world of "building a brand".


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## Russianwolf (Feb 11, 2011)

ed4copies said:


> Let me clarify that it is not my intention to besmirch the reputation of Timberbits.  I have never dealt with them and therefore don't know, one way or the other.
> 
> My point is, if they believe their "kit" has better plating and is more durable, why not call it something DIFFERENT????  Then, as time proves them right or wrong, they will be building or destroying their OWN Brand, not Berea's.
> 
> If they have  faith in their product, this would be automatic in today's world of "building a brand".



YEah Ed, but Berea isn't exactly innocent either....... Elegant Beauty.


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## ed4copies (Feb 11, 2011)

There's a LONG story behind that (Elegant Beauty), but it was relayed to me in confidence.   So, I am afraid I will never repeat it.


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## NewLondon88 (Feb 11, 2011)

ed4copies said:


> There's a LONG story behind that (Elegant Beauty), but it was relayed to me in confidence.   So, I am afraid I will never repeat it.



aw .. . come on. I'll give you a nickle..


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## Jim in Oakville (Feb 11, 2011)

jttheclockman said:


> Jim in Oakville said:
> 
> 
> > jttheclockman said:
> ...



I have made both the Cambridge and Hybrid Cambridge (AKA Canadian), both came from William Wood-Write, both are Berea, I like them, I get a lot of positive client feedback, sales are good.  Clients don't seem to see the black ring either, so what can I say..I make'em to keep the clients happy


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## jttheclockman (Feb 11, 2011)

Jim in Oakville said:


> jttheclockman said:
> 
> 
> > Jim in Oakville said:
> ...


 

Jim thanks. I too make the Berea kits and those are the ones I showed photos of in the forum here. I was looking for someone who has made the kits from Timberbits which are not a Berea kit.


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## Timbo (Feb 11, 2011)

I've been wanting to get into some of the higher end kits, the $18 Cambridge Hybrid special from Timberbits was the push I needed to get started.  I ordered RB and FP kits on 2/8, and received them today...2/11...not bad from Aus.  

Here's a customer service note for you:  The box arrived damaged with a hole large enough to fit 4 fingers in.  I did not open the box, instead sent David (Timberbits) a note explaining what I found, and asking what to do.  I got a phone call 15 minutes later from David (from Australia!) telling me that he would replace anything that was missing.  He stayed on the phone with me while I opened the box.  To my surprise nothing was missing.  I have no doubt David would have replaced anything found to be missing.  He also asked me to send him the photos of the damaged box I had taken prior to opening, so that he could follow-up with his delivery service.  So...fantastic price, quick product delivery, great customer service, desire to improve service...if that's not the making of a great vendor then I don't know what is.  

Now the kits.  This is the first time I've had my hands on any Cambridge kits, so I can't compare them to Berea's or anyone else's.  The fit and finish of what I have in my hands looks pretty darn good.  I have not made a pen since the kits have been in my hands for less than 90 minutes, but if someone wants me to post closeup pics of the kits I'd be willing to do that.


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## jttheclockman (Feb 11, 2011)

Timbo said:


> I've been wanting to get into some of the higher end kits, the $18 Cambridge Hybrid special from Timberbits was the push I needed to get started. I ordered RB and FP kits on 2/8, and received them today...2/11...not bad from Aus.
> 
> Here's a customer service note for you: The box arrived damaged with a hole large enough to fit 4 fingers in. I did not open the box, instead sent David (Timberbits) a note explaining what I found, and asking what to do. I got a phone call 15 minutes later from David (from Australia!) telling me that he would replace anything that was missing. He stayed on the phone with me while I opened the box. To my surprise nothing was missing. I have no doubt David would have replaced anything found to be missing. He also asked me to send him the photos of the damaged box I had taken prior to opening, so that he could follow-up with his delivery service. So...fantastic price, quick product delivery, great customer service, desire to improve service...if that's not the making of a great vendor then I don't know what is.
> 
> Now the kits. This is the first time I've had my hands on any Cambridge kits, so I can't compare them to Berea's or anyone else's. The fit and finish of what I have in my hands looks pretty darn good. I have not made a pen since the kits have been in my hands for less than 90 minutes, but if someone wants me to post closeup pics of the kits I'd be willing to do that.


 



Tim thanks for that reply. I have dealt with Dave before and also have great service from him and he will stand behind what he sells. I went ahead and ordered some of both and will see for myself first hand. You will like the kits. As far as selling this type kit goes, there is a love hate notion out there. Some think it is too gaudy and some think it shows cash. Your customers will decide. Have sold 2 green truestone Cambridges for $200 each so not a bad return. Also sold a nice pen box to go with one and that added some cash too. I will keep them in my line for sure.


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## Russianwolf (Feb 11, 2011)

Timbo said:


> I've been wanting to get into some of the higher end kits, the $18 Cambridge Hybrid special from Timberbits was the push I needed to get started.  I ordered RB and FP kits on 2/8, and received them today...2/11...not bad from Aus.
> 
> Here's a customer service note for you:  The box arrived damaged with a hole large enough to fit 4 fingers in.  I did not open the box, instead sent David (Timberbits) a note explaining what I found, and asking what to do.  I got a phone call 15 minutes later from David (from Australia!) telling me that he would replace anything that was missing.  He stayed on the phone with me while I opened the box.  To my surprise nothing was missing.  I have no doubt David would have replaced anything found to be missing.  He also asked me to send him the photos of the damaged box I had taken prior to opening, so that he could follow-up with his delivery service.  So...fantastic price, quick product delivery, great customer service, desire to improve service...if that's not the making of a great vendor then I don't know what is.
> 
> Now the kits.  This is the first time I've had my hands on any Cambridge kits, so I can't compare them to Berea's or anyone else's.  The fit and finish of what I have in my hands looks pretty darn good.  I have not made a pen since the kits have been in my hands for less than 90 minutes, but if someone wants me to post closeup pics of the kits I'd be willing to do that.



Now Tim, 90 minutes is plenty of time to finish a pen.


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## Timbo (Feb 11, 2011)

Russianwolf said:


> Now Tim, 90 minutes is plenty of time to finish a pen.



LOL...I haven't made a pen in a month.  It'll take 90 minutes just to clean up the shop enough to find my lathe.


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## ldb2000 (Feb 12, 2011)

Timbo said:


> Russianwolf said:
> 
> 
> > Now Tim, 90 minutes is plenty of time to finish a pen.
> ...


 
90 minutes Tim ? ..... It will take me 90 days to find mine , so get to work !!! :biggrin:


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## ctubbs (Feb 12, 2011)

ldb2000 said:


> Timbo said:
> 
> 
> > Russianwolf said:
> ...



After some of the shop photos posted recently, I was getting a complex.  THANK YOU BOTH!  I feel much better now about my trash pile, uh er shop.
Charles


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## terryf (Feb 12, 2011)

just as a matter of interest, does anyone know where Berea kits are made?


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## arioux (Feb 12, 2011)

terryf said:


> just as a matter of interest, does anyone know where Berea kits are made?



From Berea site:

"In the late 1980's a chance meeting with a Taiwan businessman, Mr. Frank Cho, President and owner of G.E. Products led us to a new idea for turners-making pens from wood. A formal and exclusive business partnership was established"


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## BigShed (Feb 12, 2011)

Russianwolf said:


> ed4copies said:
> 
> 
> > Let me clarify that it is not my intention to besmirch the reputation of Timberbits.  I have never dealt with them and therefore don't know, one way or the other.
> ...






ed4copies said:


> There's a LONG story behind that (Elegant Beauty), but it was relayed to me in confidence.   So, I am afraid I will never repeat it.



The issue of kit suppliers using each others' kit names is not new and not confined to any one "manufacturer", so the old saying of people and glass houses springs to mind (or indeed, "let he who is without sin etc"

As a very satisfied user of Timberbits kits let me say that David stands behind everything he sells, I have never received the sort of customer service that David extends to his customers from any other company, pen kit suppliers or otherwise.

At the end of the day it isn't about what a kit is called, it is about the quality of the kit and whether the supplier stands behind his product.

Tim's experience over in the UK is by no means unusual.

I have ordered some of these Cambridge Hybrid kits, but have not received them as yet so can't comment on the quality, but if they are anything like the other kits that Timberbits supplies then I know I will be happy.


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## Heck (Feb 12, 2011)

Big Shed,

I have to agree with you statement, "it is about the quality of the kit and whether the supplier stands behind his product."

Customer service is where it all starts, building a relationship with the buyer. Once the relationship is established the rest will fall into place.

I too have a few kits ordered to give them a try. David emailed me to confirmed the order added the bushings I requested that I left off the order too...


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## terryf (Feb 12, 2011)

thanks Alfred, and so knowing that Timberbits states whether his supplier is Chinese or Taiwanese etc on his site makes one wonder if the supplier of the Cambridge kits is not one and the same!
Kinda like CD players all made in the same factory and then labeled Sony, Pioneer etc
Food for thought as they say :wink:



arioux said:


> terryf said:
> 
> 
> > just as a matter of interest, does anyone know where Berea kits are made?
> ...


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## Papo (Feb 12, 2011)

UUUUUuFFFFFFffffffff


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## jttheclockman (Feb 12, 2011)

terryf said:


> thanks Alfred, and so knowing that Timberbits states whether his supplier is Chinese or Taiwanese etc on his site makes one wonder if the supplier of the Cambridge kits is not one and the same!
> Kinda like CD players all made in the same factory and then labeled Sony, Pioneer etc
> Food for thought as they say :wink:
> 
> ...


 


Just to be clear on something. The Cambridge that Timberbits is selling is made to their specs. Thus the difference in platings.


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## terryf (Feb 12, 2011)

Irrespective of the platings, I was merely making reference to the fact that the manufacturer of the Berea kits may very well be the same manufacturer as the Timberbits kits. 

In which case the quality should be the same and Ed can take off his cap :biggrin:



jttheclockman said:


> terryf said:
> 
> 
> > thanks Alfred, and so knowing that Timberbits states whether his supplier is Chinese or Taiwanese etc on his site makes one wonder if the supplier of the Cambridge kits is not one and the same!
> ...


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## timberbits (Feb 12, 2011)

terryf said:


> thanks Alfred, and so knowing that Timberbits states whether his supplier is Chinese or Taiwanese etc on his site makes one wonder if the supplier of the Cambridge kits is not one and the same!
> Kinda like CD players all made in the same factory and then labeled Sony, Pioneer etc
> Food for thought as they say :wink:



I have been asked to reply to this thread. 

May I first start by saying this is a very politically charged topic and in the past I have always tried to stay out from the discussions because it only infuriates the different players.

As stated in a previous post, a "project manager" handles the manufacture of the pen kits. Different steps such as plating, threading, flanging, CNC engraving etc are farmed out to smaller factories. There are fewer and fewer of these smaller factories in Taiwan because they our going out of business due to Main Land China super low prices.

I use a project manager that has traditionally done contract making for the super high end completed pens for the big expensive brands. Yes they too farm out work to Taiwan. My Mother use to run and own a high end Jewellery shop - this is how we met the factory/project manager. Traditionally the project manager works for an "Agent" who can speak both Chinese and English/French or Japanese. The Agent works for client and goes out to look for and engage a suitable project manager. This particular project manager (as most) cannot speak or read a word of English. Again traditionally, depending on the size of the order, the agent can earn a commission of 50% - 150% (yes your reading it right). Guess who pays for the commission - yes you the end user. 

The project manager probably farms out specialist work to the same small factories as the other pen kit manufactures, who knows? I surely don't because they keep these things a guarded family secret. It's like telling your competition where you source your goods from.

Pen making is not like a DVD manufacturer where it comes off a production line, its a lot more of a cottage industry. Toyota's and Lexus' comes off the same production line - hell they are even owned by the same company, would you be game enough to call your Toyota a Lexus? or even the other way round, would you call your Lexus a Toyota. They are made to different specs and made with different components.

Regarding the Name - Cambridge Hybrid. This has been discussed at length about different names for the same kits. It confuses the living daylights out of everyone. Its just a name for a particular kit.

If you want to protect the name or the design, you can get it protected by registering the Trademark or put a paten out on the name and design. Even though I have gone through Law school, I am by no stretch of the imagination a IP Lawer. With a quick search of the United States Paten and Trademark Office, there has been nothing lodged for that particular name. 

From what I can see, its only the Berea Brand Quality logo that has been trademarked - (Jan 28 2011) The mark consists of the word Berea in all capital letters followed by the word Brand in sentence case; the word Quality appears underneath both words with a check mark through the leg of the Q in Quality. No Trademark number has been issued yet for this logo.

I hope this clears a bit of the confusion, but being a realist its probably done the reverse and only raised more questions. 

Thanks for reading

Timberbits.


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## ed4copies (Feb 12, 2011)

Thank you for the courtesy of a reply!

Ed


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## Heck (Feb 12, 2011)

Thank you for taking time to explain the process and marketing of some high end pen kits.
I would like to express my gratitude for you giving the IAP group a special discount.

Every IAP member has a option.


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## terryf (Feb 12, 2011)

+1 your response is appreciated!



ed4copies said:


> Thank you for the courtesy of a reply!
> 
> Ed





Heck said:


> Thank you for taking time to explain the process and marketing of some high end pen kits.
> I would like to express my gratitude for you giving the IAP group a special discount.
> 
> Every IAP member has a option.


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## Heck (Feb 16, 2011)

Hi Timberbits,
I  recieved my order today. 
Awesome looking pen kits!
Thank you for the quick shipping and excellent service.


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## Spats139 (Feb 16, 2011)

My package from timberbits was waiting for me when I got home tonight, and my first impression is that they look great; the wife likes them a lot as well. 

And what about that shipping - placed my order mid-afternoon on the 12th (Saturday), and they are at my door on the 16th - 4 days! My orders from the USA routinely take from 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 weeks; I suspect mostly due to our Canadian postal service getting involved.

I'll definitely want to try out some of these this weekend. I have some blanks from Exotics that should be perfect for these kits.


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## Bowl-basher (Feb 16, 2011)

I will add my 2cents worth here
I started using the Cambridge some time ago and purchased my kits from the agent here in Sydney I had a few problems with the "silver inlay" falling off and in fact when I went to get some more from this source I was told that they would not be imported because of ongoing problems with this
I have since used the kit from Timberbits and to date have had no problems,, I like a lot of others would like to see this kit without the black plastic ring on the cap
But I will continue to use it as my customers seem happy to buy it
Regards
Bowl-Basher


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