# Zebra Striped blanks



## Pens By Scott (Jun 26, 2010)

Hi there,
Not sure where to put this post, but I thought I would start here.

I bought a few "Zebra Striped" blanks from PSI and have tried to turn them, but for what ever reason, I get close to the dimensions and bang, the sort of catch an edge and shatter.

I'm 4 for 4 right now.  I've made sure i have a sharp edge, and sharpen it mid way.  They are not really an acrylic, as they seem to powder when I turn them.

Just wondering if anyone else has had this experience or if I'm just not that good with my tools...

Scott


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## hunter-27 (Jun 26, 2010)

What tool are you using?


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## Pens By Scott (Jun 26, 2010)

I've tried a gouge and a 1 inch skew.  I've also tried knocking the corners off with a bandsaw.


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## hunter-27 (Jun 26, 2010)

Generally I struggle using a gouge on any acrylic.  The skew would be my choice.  Other than you are changing your approach angle as you near the end causing it to dig in, I don't know what to tell you.


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## cnccutter (Jun 26, 2010)

is it "catching" when you are finishing a pass going out of the blank, or when you are starting a cut coming into the blank. generally speaking I never come into the end of a blank when I'm close to the finished size. I have gone to only exiting the blank using the tip down potion going towards the headstock and the tip up potion when exiting the end by the tail-stock when using the skew. also check your tool post height to make sure your at the proper height. sometimes we forget that the thin skin of wood or acrylic that we have when we are to a finished size is just that THIN! this trouble will go away with a little coaching from a fellow pen turner in your area. and it might only cost you a beer for his time.

Erik


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## Parson (Jun 26, 2010)

Shoot. I messed up a blank a couple of times and just went to 150 grit sandpaper waaaay early so as not to blow it out again. Had to stop a lot and let the blank cool down though. Sandpaper creates a lot of heat if used for long periods of time.

You might try keeping your chisel sharper and either speeding up or slowing down your lathe. You'll figure out the right combination.


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## toddlajoie (Jun 26, 2010)

FYI, when a blank looks like it turns to baby powder as you turn it, it's more than likely polyresin (PR in IAP abreviation). PR is way more brittle than the commercial acrylics, so take it slow, sharp, and easy. Take your time, light cuts...


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## keithkarl2007 (Jun 27, 2010)

Turn it down to round with the skew or gouge. Just as your starting to make ribbons instead of chips, switch to a round nosed scraper. I love turning acrylics with a round nosed scraper, less chance of a catch which will take a chunk out of the blank


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## Pens By Scott (Jun 27, 2010)

Thanks guys, I'll will give these suggestions a try.


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## robutacion (Jun 27, 2010)

I would be given the "Flap" discs on a 4" grinder a go.  I have said this countless times and I'm waiting for the first person to say that it didn't work...!:wink:

My suggestion is select 2 grits of the 4 normally available, I particularly like to use the 40 grit and the 80 grit, the other combination is the 60 and 120 grits.

Good idea to save the discs by taking the square corners on the bandsaw bu, after that no more cutting tools right to the stage of the hand sanding process. Use the courser grit to cut the blank right to the shaping point, then change the disc to a higher grit or get 2 inexpensive grinders and set on disc type on each one.  Make your pen/barrel shaping with gentle passes voiding the bushes as much as possible, stop the lathe, clean the blank and look for any need of filling or CA, after that proceed as you would normally.

While the use of these Flap discs can make the bushings last less, the value of the bushings replacement compared with the time spent and blanks destroyed, just doesn't compare, regardless...!

This works for me and is working for a lot of other people that are now using this system. This is my story and I stick with it...!:biggrin:

Cheers
George


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## ed4copies (Jun 27, 2010)

When people ask, do you still say you are a "penturner" or do you just answer, "I grind em out!!"???


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## Pens By Scott (Jun 27, 2010)

Hmmm, flap disc, interesting concept, think i might go shopping for a grinder...  See what's available.  Although, I still like turning with the cutting tools.


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## Rangertrek (Jun 28, 2010)

I have made a dozen of so Divas using that blank.  Yes it is a little brittle.  Turn slow and easy and you should have no problems.  I use a 3/4" gouge to start and switch to a skew for final sizing.


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## Pens By Scott (Jun 29, 2010)

Rangertrek said:


> I have made a dozen of so Divas using that blank.  Yes it is a little brittle.  Turn slow and easy and you should have no problems.  I use a 3/4" gouge to start and switch to a skew for final sizing.



John,
When you say turn slow, do you mean lathe speed, or take my time?


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## reddwil (Jun 30, 2010)

I've got where I use a round nose scraper. I use the skew to get close to final size and finish with the scraper taking very light cuts. Haven't blown a blank since, not that I won't someday, but it works for me.


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## dgscott (Jun 30, 2010)

Every once in a while I'll find a piece of material that has a tendency to blow at any speed no matter how sharp the tools are. When I have a piece like that I rough it to almost round on the bandsaw, use only the point of the skew rather than the full blade and take my time. 
Doug


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## Mapster (Jun 30, 2010)

I just finished a zebra about an hour ago. It chipped like crazy. But with a high lathe speed and *shallow* cuts, you can do it. Remember anchor bevel cut so you don't jam the sharp tip into the wrong angle on the blank.


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## Rangertrek (Jun 30, 2010)

Scott, sorry for the confusion.   Lathe speed is fast, take your time with the cuts, light touch.  The blanks tend to be a bit "chippy", little small holes in them.  I get them near the bushings and then use a skew or scraper to smooth out the surface.  Then I use wet sandpaper or MM.


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## robutacion (Jul 1, 2010)

ed4copies said:


> When people ask, do you still say you are a "penturner" or do you just answer, "I grind em out!!"???



Hahahahah *Ed*...!:biggrin: 

I'm glad you mentioned that...!

You have no idea how many people I know that now are using the "Flap" discs but they are too embarrassed to say so, and admit it here or in public.  Why...??? exactly for the very same reason, that made you made the above comment.

I understand perfectly what you mean, and I don't have any problems at all with it, after all just look at the many other ways pens are made today, including the most common mini metal lathes to cut and shape the pen barrels, where the automatic feed is used with specially made cutters for wood and acrylic materials.  

Is this incorrect or a bad thing...??? hell no...! people have the right to use whatever they want to "achieve" the results required, and this is exactly the reason why I suggest this "Flap" disc method, particularly in cases where the blank or material to be made into a pen barrel is very fragile (soft, etc...!) or prone to splitting or blowing out.

Countless times we see folks here, pulling their hairs out from failed attempts  at certain types of blanks, many of them admitting to have used all their stock of that particular type of blank and still didn't manage to make a single pen from them...! now, that is desperation...! so why not give them an "option" / "solution" to their problem...???

Is that, really important how one achieves the so needed/intended results...??? in fact using a "Flap" disc(s) to reduce a normal pen blank size into a "semi-shaped" pen barrel, doesn't change the fact that before that barrel becomes really a pen, it will require all the normal processes of hand sanding and finishing methods each one of us would normally use.

Is someone using a "Flap" disc on their pen making process, less of a "pen-maker" because of that...??? absolutely not, in my opinion.  In fact, the whole idea come from my experience and work as an also bowl maker where, this same ideological  line of thinking did became an issue when the electrical tools were use to shape and sand some bowls, particularly the use of round head flat sanding pads, on a electric tool were used to sand the bowls in and out. 

That did upset some more traditional turners that believed that, those using such techniques could not call themselves "Wood-turners"...! not only I believe, that philosophy is wrong but I also thing that, is of no ones help to deny or hide any concept that can improve in some way, the final results...!

"Flap" discs have helped me considerably in all my wood-turning projects from big to small, from dealing with wood pieces/blanks/blocks/logs/etc...!, that would never been successfully and "safely" be finished or created.  This safety issue can not be underestimated, even on pen making, if the use of a "Flap" disc in particular situations, can reduce the risk level to a minimum, I reckon is well worth it, regardless what others may thing...!:wink:

Interestingly, suggesting the "Flap" disc method to those that buy blanks from me, is like shooting myself in the foot, the less blanks they stuff-up, the less I will sell but, I don't really care at all.  With this said, I can understand that those making a living at selling pen blanks, would probably prefer that I didn't suggest such simple method to resolve a big problem, to so many of other people out there but, in the end, I'm not either trying to give or take business to anyone, hold on a minute...! I should start selling some "Flap" discs, huh...?. I'm simply "suggesting" a method/process/way to those that come up here asking for a solution to their problem...!:wink::biggrin:

So please Ed or anyone else, take my comment as an informative/explanatory one, not as an offense or a attempt to disrespect you or your opinion on this matter.  I stand by some principals, one is, everyone has the right to have "an" opinion...!:wink: 

Cheers
George


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## snyiper (Jul 1, 2010)

Also bushings are less of a issue if you are using a Mic to size them anyway!


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## ed4copies (Jul 1, 2010)

Make the pen any way you like.

If I return to the craft show arena, I will continue to demonstrate at the shows, emphasizing the idea that we are "emulating" the masters that created the "aura" around the "names" of the industry. You know, the days when Mt.Blanc had master pen makers?   Who created Masterful pens that earned them a stellar reputation.

Now they are made by machines, that "grind them out".

To each his own.

I can say that I have mastered "pen-turning" and it is true.  To me, this is my reward for countless ruined attempts, in the apprentice and journeyman stages of development..

And far fewer, but still occurring, ruined attempts now!!:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:


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## workinforwood (Jul 1, 2010)

I run my lathe at high speed with acrylics.  Any blank that is chip happy or tears out like PR or a wood burl, I always find it best to round the blank and then work down the ends of the blank first.  Working down the ends, you are pushing in a direction of the blank that has lots of meat on it to support the weaker ends.  Then you spin out the middle and you are done.  I use a carbide rotondo tool and I am very aggressive but when you get down near the end you need to be very gentle with your cuts.

Hopefully those blanks weren't too expensive.  I saw Ed spun one and if he can do it with a cheese knife, anyone can!:wink::biggrin:


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## skiprat (Jul 1, 2010)

George, that is very inventive using the flap wheels and a great idea.

I know several people brag that the only way to chop down a tree, cut it into boards and then into blanks is to use a skew, but although I'm certainly no master of that tool, it seems silly to me that you need to use a 'finishing' tool to start a job from raw. Kinda like starting a fire by rubbing twigs together when you have a box of matches. Once I have perfected the use of a decent skew, I certainly won't be wasting the keen edge by using it to rough out.:biggrin:

I think that you have 'mastered the problem' once you find a way, *any way*, that works for you. Any fool can struggle,( and blow up blanks) but it's the clever ones that find an alternative.:biggrin:


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## ed4copies (Jul 1, 2010)

Well, next time you go fishin, just drop a stick of dynamite into the water.

You'll get dead fish.

"The end justifies the means".

Everyone is entitled to an opinion.


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## robutacion (Jul 2, 2010)

ed4copies said:


> Well, next time you go fishin, just drop a stick of dynamite into the water.
> 
> You'll get dead fish.
> 
> ...



Absolutely..., Ed!

And that is the very reason why I disagree with your (seem quite radical) interpretation of what I said...!

I simply offer a suggestion to deal with trouble blanks, or someone that are having troubles to get even close to the hand sanding and finishing stages of making a pen, no more no less...!

I offer "a" solution to the problem, not the "only" solution.  People have their own ideas to what is suitable to use in their own pens, and in reality using a "Flap" disc to by-pass the initial and critical stages of those "difficult" blanks to work with, is not that much different than someone using the band-saw the round the blank as much as possible and them use hand sanding with cutting grits (60, 80 mainly) to shape the blank to size.

Mastering cutting tools, is a great thing but sometimes, is not enough...! on the other hand, there will be countless number of times that each pen maker can practice and master their cutting tool of choice.  The skew, is just one of many cutting tools, people can use to successfully make pens with, for some reason, is a general perception among pen makers that unless you master the skew, you can't call oneself a pen maker.  This very same subject has appeared directly or indirectly in more posts that I would dare to count.

I remember that some of my first attempts at making a pen, were made using a self made tool, made out of a old trolley axle as the shaft, a bike hand grip as the handle, a half broken screw driver bits holder, some broken flat and Philips head screw driver bits, a old socket and a couple screws to keep it all together.  Did it work...? absolutely...! anything that can be turn in a wood- lathe, I used it quite successfully.  Can I turn anything I want with it...! you bet...!

Obviously, my turning tools variety in our days in a lot more "forgiving" and easier to work with, do I prefer some tools over others, I sure do and that is only normal and expected.  

Coming back to the "Flap" disc issue, what would be the average percentage of "difficult" blanks the average pen maker will attempt to turn if he/she already know they are what they are...??? I would suggest about 10% of the blanks turned so, 9 out of 10 blanks the turner can use any "common" cutting tools to tackle these blanks...! 1 in 10 the turner may require a different approach, I'm aware of many "things" that were tried and failed in these situations, I know from experience that the "Flap" disc method will succeed every time...!  Why does this have to be a bad thing...!

I should also say, that I have absolutely no commercial interests or other, in recommending this method, I don't sell either "Flap" discs or 4" grinders of any sort, nor I get commissioned to talk about it,  I have only suggested this method publicly when someone asks for help with the "difficult blanks" issue, I can also say that numerous times I have mention/stated privately that, "Flap" discs are capable of reducing the time that takes to get a square blank into a shaped barrel ready for the hand sanding steps and finish, in half of the time, most traditional cuttings tools are capable off, even in very capable hands...!

I have pretty much exhausted all my "sensible" / "rational" reasons and explanations to this method issue, therefore further replies would not be necessary...!:wink::biggrin:

This is my story and I stick with it, sorry Ed!:wink:

PS: Ed or anyone else that still puzzled or not sure of the "Flap" disc method functionality, are most welcome to PM me for a chat...! 

Cheers
George


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## ed4copies (Jul 2, 2010)

George and others,

I encourage everyone to have their own opinion.

I respect your defense of your position, very well stated.

I am happy to leave it at that, and stay friends.


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## Rangertrek (Jul 2, 2010)

Well, the "flap" disc discussion was sure interesting.  I can see it as a method to achieve a desired result.
One of the computer circuit board blanks I purchased came with an information sheet that indicated to use a belt sander to reduce the square blank.  I tried it and it worked, then finished the final size on the lathe.  I don't see much difference in using a belt sander vs a flap sander to round down the corners, etc.  Great input in the above posts!


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## robutacion (Jul 3, 2010)

ed4copies said:


> George and others,
> 
> I encourage everyone to have their own opinion.
> 
> ...



No "problemo" Ed...!

Was never my intention to make enemies out of the issue, much less to someone like yourself that sees this issue in a different way as myself.

I appreciate your and others recognition of my statements, I'm glad that our "discussion" allowed others also to have a better understanding of what I believe, the "Flap" disc method in really is.

Is a lot more to game to be able to agree to disagree, then to be childish about it, each one of us have something to contribute, and believe me, everyone one of our words are "soaked in" like sponges from those that come to this place to learn and share experiences with...!

I also encourage everyone to have their own opinion, and not being afraid/concerned/skeptical to participate in an intelligent and productive conversation/discussion between positive people.  Your opinion/ideas/thoughts are most welcome, regardless if they are different, it takes all sorts to make a place like this...!

Cheers
George


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## renowb (Jul 3, 2010)

Put up your dukes! Just kidding! Happy 4th! Isn't it great to live in a wonderful country! Many people fought and died for us! Let's Celebrate!


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## ed4copies (Jul 3, 2010)

A PICTURE is worth a thousand words,
so how much is a MOVIN pitcher worth???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mUv9m21TFs


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## robutacion (Jul 3, 2010)

Hi Ed,

Great demonstration...!

I have also realized (I had not made the connection before) that the Zebra blanks referred in the open thread post (title), are indeed yours...!

To me, the origin or material type of a "difficult" or a "fragile" blank is irrelevant for the suggestion I have for those ("Flap" disc method) never the less, your decision to produce this demonstration video, is a one of the positive results of our discussion.  On behave of those that are not willing to give the "Flap"disc a try, and prefer to use the most common and traditional method, with a good choice of tool, this video does indeed help them, thank you...!

We may need to "discuss" more regularly...!:wink::biggrin:

PS: I do apologize to *writeitdown* Scott, for turning his simple question, in a much more than that, I hope you aren't mad at "us" mate, for what become a very informative and positive change of ideas...!

Cheers
George


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## ed4copies (Jul 3, 2010)

Actually, George,
the OP mentioned he bought the material from PSI, so I stayed off the thread, waiting for PSI to "jump in".

Well, it's just not like me to stay silent---so that's how I got involved in the thread.  

I have turned LOTS of the cats and "cat chow" (zebra), and yes, it takes SOME technique.  But then, anything worth doing is worth ............... doing over.

Hope this vid helps, it was a pain to produce.  But, I could have just thrown the "raw footage" up and let everybody try to figure it out.---

Glad you enjoy the end product, it does make it worth the work!~!!

Oh and PSI----------You're welcome!!!


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## Pens By Scott (Jul 5, 2010)

ed4copies said:


> A PICTURE is worth a thousand words,
> so how much is a MOVIN pitcher worth???
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mUv9m21TFs



Ed,
Thank you very much for taking the time to do the video, editing it and uploading it.  It was a great view!


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## ed4copies (Jul 5, 2010)

You're welcome, Scott!!

Now, go develop some technique!!!

YOU TOO, can turn like this--it's just a matter of patience, practice and ruined blanks!!!!


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## Smitty37 (Jul 6, 2010)

*dynamite way to fish*



ed4copies said:


> Well, next time you go fishin, just drop a stick of dynamite into the water.
> 
> You'll get dead fish.
> 
> ...


Actually I grew up using dynamite caps and what we used to call a dry-cell battery......


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## phillywood (Jul 6, 2010)

ed4copies said:


> You're welcome, Scott!!
> 
> Now, go develop some technique!!!
> 
> YOU TOO, can turn like this--it's just a matter of patience, practice and ruined blanks!!!!


 Hey, Ed,thank you i was giving up on this discussion. BTW, I noticed you used scew from the begining to the end. I hope I'll have same luck as you do buddy, or youthrow in soem extras if I need to buy that balnk form you for the practice. And, George i am not even gonna tell you what I have used the falp disks for, that' swaht inovation is called. Whatever works to get the job doen as long as you stay safe. Now , hope no one will come back to hang me for this comment.


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## Pens By Scott (Jul 6, 2010)

robutacion said:


> Hi Ed,
> 
> Great demonstration...!
> 
> ...



George,
Quite the opposite, this thread has turned out far better than I had originally thought it would.  There have been several ideas and ways to tackle it.  The video demonstration was far beyond what I was looking for, spectacular and a great thanks to Ed for doing it.

Not a chance i'm mad or offended in any way on this one.  A Big thank you to all contributing members on this one.  Now I just need to get in the shop and do it!  or off to the tool store for a grinder and some flap disks.  (still really liking that idea)


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## robutacion (Jul 7, 2010)

writeitdown said:


> George,
> Quite the opposite, this thread has turned out far better than I had originally thought it would.  There have been several ideas and ways to tackle it.  The video demonstration was far beyond what I was looking for, spectacular and a great thanks to Ed for doing it.
> 
> Not a chance i'm mad or offended in any way on this one.  A Big thank you to all contributing members on this one.  Now I just need to get in the shop and do it!  or off to the tool store for a grinder and some flap disks.  (still really liking that idea)




I'm glad that you saw the development of you original post (question) as a positive one and that you didn't misunderstood the reasons and intentions behind mine and ED replies.  You are not alone with the surprise of how the issue turn out, is great when you get such good results out of a "simple" question, and maybe ED would not have made the video so, a win win situation for everyone...!:biggrin:

Got any more questions...????:wink:

Cheers
George


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## ed4copies (Jul 7, 2010)

Now that I struggled through that video construction, I would like to do more, while I remember the techniques and can interpret my notes.

So PLEASE, if you would like to see "how to" do anything with resin/acrylic/plastic blanks, say so--I'll work on it!!


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## keithkarl2007 (Jul 7, 2010)

ed4copies said:


> Now that I struggled through that video construction, I would like to do more, while I remember the techniques and can interpret my notes.
> 
> So PLEASE, if you would like to see "how to" do anything with resin/acrylic/plastic blanks, say so--I'll work on it!!



Pendant


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## Pens By Scott (Jul 9, 2010)

*To all that have contributed*

Well,
Thanks to all the help on this one, I finally got one done, used the skew, and followed the advice of Ed.  Still looking at the Flap Disk Grinder...

Here is the results.

(both the same pen, let me know which photo is better)


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## ed4copies (Jul 9, 2010)

Congratulations on being persistent!!!!

NICE job!!


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