# Bullet Pen Experiment



## Rockytime (Aug 20, 2014)

Yesterday a friend of mine gave me a couple of Mauser empty cartridges. I just wanted to experiment to see how a slimline kit would work with it. Unfortunately I do not have access to bullets so I just used what I had, a slimline nib. The experiment was not quite successful as the cartridge is too short. I was only able to press the tranny in a very short way and the refill does not back up into the slot properly. I thought of stretching the neck to fit the nib but was afraid I might split the neck. I think I will be able to use a 30-06 if I can find a re-loader.  I would also like to use a copper clad hollow point if I can find one. i can go a re-loading shop and purchase them but will probably have to buy a bunch. I don't know if they are sold by the 25's, 50's or 100's. I just want to try it. I'll inquire t a gun shop not far from me. Anyway this is my little experiment for today. It is 11 PM. Good Night.


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## loydstuts (Aug 20, 2014)

The bullet pen kits I buy are made from .30-06 cartridges, and psi and others sell .30 cal. bushings. Bass pro shop or Cabelas should sell new brass by the 100. Hope this helps.


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## WriteON (Aug 20, 2014)

If you posted this on a gun website someone would probably send you a few cases....and most likely buy something from you. 

try http://www.thehighroad.org


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## plantman (Aug 20, 2014)

Check PSI catalog #144A page 57. They sell Rose Gold Bullet tips in paks of 5 for $6.95.   Jim  S


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## sbell111 (Aug 20, 2014)

plantman said:


> Check PSI catalog #144A page 57. They sell Rose Gold Bullet tips in paks of 5 for $6.95.   Jim  S


Those are made to screw onto a fake cartridge kit.  I'm not seeing a way to easily adapt them to a slimline-based real cartridge pen.


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## JD Combs Sr (Aug 20, 2014)

sbell111 said:


> plantman said:
> 
> 
> > Check PSI catalog #144A page 57. They sell Rose Gold Bullet tips in paks of 5 for $6.95.   Jim  S
> ...


Don't know that it would work but maybe if you had the mating part that the tips screw onto you might be able to come up with something that would work.  Getting the mating part could be a show stopper though.


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## texaswoodworker (Aug 20, 2014)

Rockytime said:


> Yesterday a friend of mine gave me a couple of Mauser empty cartridges. I just wanted to experiment to see how a slimline kit would work with it. Unfortunately I do not have access to bullets so I just used what I had, a slimline nib. The experiment was not quite successful as the cartridge is too short. I was only able to press the tranny in a very short way and the refill does not back up into the slot properly. I thought of stretching the neck to fit the nib but was afraid I might split the neck. I think I will be able to use a 30-06 if I can find a re-loader.  I would also like to use a copper clad hollow point if I can find one. i can go a re-loading shop and purchase them but will probably have to buy a bunch. I don't know if they are sold by the 25's, 50's or 100's. I just want to try it. I'll inquire t a gun shop not far from me. Anyway this is my little experiment for today. It is 11 PM. Good Night.



Nicely done. 

Bullets are generally sold in boxes of 50 or 100. Try looking into Barnes bullets. They make lead free, all copper bullets. Something in the 150gr-165gr range would probably be what you'd want since those are popular weights for the 30-06. 180gr would well work too. They are not cheap though. These are high quality hunting bullets and are priced accordingly. Expect to pay $30-$40 per 50. 

TSX - One Of The Deadliest, Most Dependable Bullets | Barnes Bullets

Nosler also makes a lead free bullet. 

http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm?contentID=productDetail&brand=NO&prodID=NO59415&prodTitle=Nosler%20E-Tip%20Bullets%2030%20Caliber%20%28.308%20Dia.%29%20168%20Grain%20Spitzer%20Boat%20Tail%20Lead-Free%2050/Box

You MIGHT be able to make a .311 diameter bullet work. 30-06 uses a .308 bullet, but a lot of foreign militarizes used .311 bullets during WWI and WWII (Russia, England, Japan). Many of these bullets were jacketed steel core bullets, and a lot of them are still floating around. 7.62x54R Russian is extremely common. You might be able to find some pulled bullets from one online. Just make sure they are steel core, not lead. 

As for a press, I don't think your probably wanting to invest in a true reloading press and a set of dies (cheapest press is around $60, dies are $30), but know of something that may work for you.

I have never used one of these, so I do not know how well they work. It may fit your needs though. All you need is a rubber mallet. 

Amazon.com : Lee Precision 30/06 Spring Loader : Gunsmithing Tools And Accessories : Sports & Outdoors

In order for the bullet to stay seated for the pen, you'll need to do one of two things. Either use the tool to put a good strong crimp on the case mouth if the bullet has a crimp grove, or glue to bullet into the case. (make sure not to glue it to the tool though).

Happy turning.


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## plantman (Aug 20, 2014)

JD Combs Sr said:


> sbell111 said:
> 
> 
> > plantman said:
> ...



Your right, it's not just going to screw or slip into the cartrage. Having a mini metal lathe, I would have no problem adapting this tip to fit something it was not designed for. Actualy, I would turn my own tips out of Brass, Copper, or Bronze. Turn down a shoulder on the end and glue it to the shell caseing, or tap and thread it. This  can all be done on a wood lathe as well using metal files or lathe tools  to shape your bullet !! Drill your hole first to clear your refill. (may need two size drills) Turn your shoulder to fit the cartrage. Mount the shoulder in your chuck and shape your bullet. Polish the bullet and install. It's the same steps used in making a kitless pen, only easier because it would be made out of metal and not acrylic or wood. I never just look at something for what it's designed for, but what I can make out of it's design to suit my needs. if we only used things as they were ment to be used, we would never move forward in life !!   Jim  S


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## Rockytime (Aug 20, 2014)

Many thanks for the replies and suggestions. A kind turner on this site has offered to send me several 30-06 cartridges for further experimentation. as you can see from the attached photo the first experiment failed because I should have extended the brass tube in the cartridge further to allow for the transmission and reduced the length of the brass tube in the wood blank. Live and learn.I have a small machine shop and can turn a bullet shaped nib from aluminum or stainless. I see bullet pens on ebay supposedly made in the USA selling for under 20 dollars. If it is true someone is not even covering their costs considering equipment and supplies. Pens are just entertainment for me.


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## texaswoodworker (Aug 21, 2014)

Rockytime said:


> Many thanks for the replies and suggestions. A kind turner on this site has offered to send me several 30-06 cartridges for further experimentation. as you can see from the attached photo the first experiment failed because I should have extended the brass tube in the cartridge further to allow for the transmission and reduced the length of the brass tube in the wood blank. Live and learn.I have a small machine shop and can turn a bullet shaped nib from aluminum or stainless. I see bullet pens on ebay supposedly made in the USA selling for under 20 dollars. If it is true someone is not even covering their costs considering equipment and supplies. Pens are just entertainment for me.



I make bullet pens, and I usually sell them for $15. Though, there's a few reasons why I can charge that low of a price. Some of the ammo I shoot is steel cased. It's cheap, but not really reloadable so it's basically trash after being fired. I don't have the tools I need to accurately bore out a bullet, so I make my own which is cheaper than buying the real things. Mine don't have a clip, but that doesn't seem to bother most.

Here's a few of mine made from 7.62x54mmR


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## nightowl (Aug 21, 2014)

I made one from a .300 Weatherby(sp) shell casing.  The nib from a slim line mates almost perfectly with the shell casing end.


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## BayouPenturner (Aug 21, 2014)

The trick I found is to use a shell die to resize the casing for a 30-06 and the casing lip meets really well.  I don't think there should be a offset where the bellet casing and the 7mm nib meets.

Good luck


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## sbell111 (Aug 21, 2014)

I just buy 30 caliber bullets and drill them out.  They're pretty inexpensive and the drilling is easy.  I don't see how an 8mm bullet for a pen made from Mauser brass would be any different.


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## NittanyLion (Aug 21, 2014)

Rick Herrel, Don Ward, Eric Rasmussen, and others all have good articles in the library and other sites on bullet pens.  Take a look.


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## Edgar (Aug 21, 2014)

Here's a supplier who has press-in bullet shaped nibs similar to the PSI screw-ins.

Bullet Pen Tip- Replica [BT-REP] - $1.00 : Pen Making Supplies, Kits for pen makers, Fountain Pen Parts and more


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## Sylvanite (Aug 21, 2014)

Les,

That doesn't look like an 8mm Mauser shellcase, but then again, Mausers (and copies of them) were sometimes chambered in other calibers.  I'm not sure what caliber your case might be - it isn't long enough for 6.5x55mm.  As you discovered, some calibers are a little short.  One solution (as shown in Short Action Instructions) is to let the brass tube extend from the case head and recess the tube in the pen upper barrel a corresponding amount.  Then there is something for the refill to press into.

It doesn't take specialized equipment to drill a bullet for use as a ballpoint pen nosecone.  I drill most bullets on a regular wood lathe.  A collet chuck and center bit are helpful, but not absolutely necessary.

I recommend that anybody who wants to sell a pen made from ammunition components take a look at [url="http://content.penturners.org/library/general_reference/bullet_anatomy.pdf]Bullet Pen Anatomy[/url].  It helps if you use the correct terminology when speaking to a gun enthusiast.

Regards,
Eric


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## texaswoodworker (Aug 21, 2014)

Sylvanite said:


> Les,
> 
> That doesn't look like an 8mm Mauser shellcase, but then again, Mausers (and copies of them) were sometimes chambered in other calibers.  I'm not sure what caliber your case might be - it isn't long enough for 6.5x55mm.  As you discovered, some calibers are a little short.  One solution (as shown in Short Action Instructions) is to let the brass tube extend from the case head and recess the tube in the pen upper barrel a corresponding amount.  Then there is something for the refill to press into.
> 
> ...



It looks like it's 7x57mm Mauser, which means it needs a .285" (7.24mm) bullet. 

The case should be 2.244" long if it is a 7mm Mauser.


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## Wingdoctor (Aug 21, 2014)

That looks to be a 7mm Mauser cartridge. .284 bullet diameter. A 7mm bullet could be drilled, they are normally sold in boxes of 100 for reloading.


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## navycop (Aug 21, 2014)

sbell111 said:


> plantman said:
> 
> 
> > Check PSI catalog #144A page 57. They sell Rose Gold Bullet tips in paks of 5 for $6.95.   Jim  S
> ...



I got a set of these in the past and couldn't get them to work with shell I bought from Bass Pro Shop.


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## Sylvanite (Aug 21, 2014)

I considered 7x57mm Mauser, but the 57mm shellcase is longer than a slimline tube, so there would not have been a problem seating the transmission deep enough.  Also, the .284" bullet diameter is larger than the press fitting on a slimline nosecone.  If the case were 7mm Mauser caliber, the nosecone would be flopping around loose, not threatening to split the case neck.

The case mouth diameter led me to suspect 6.5x55mm Swedish Mauser, but like I said before, even the 55mm case is longer than a slimline tube.

250 Savage would be about the right size, but I don't know of a Mauser chambered in that caliber.

What does the headstamp say?

Eric


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## Rockytime (Aug 21, 2014)

texaswoodworker said:


> Sylvanite said:
> 
> 
> > Les,
> ...



Actually it is a 6.5x55. The length is  2.150" and 6.5x55 PPU is stamped on the end of the head. I drilled out the spent primer with a letter "I" drill which was a perfect fit for the slim line brass which is .267". I now presume the neck can be resized larger to fit a slimline nib. I have not ever seen this done. However, I can make a die and press it into the neck on my milling machine or a large arbor press. Hopefully the neck won't split. The slimline nib I am using is .330 at its widest dimension.

Also I appreciate your suggestion on learning proper terminology. I did read the Bullet Pen Anatomy. I belong to a clockmaker's website. if I called a suspension spring a springy thingy I would be laughed off the site. Lots of great information on this site.

Again, many thanks, Les


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## Sylvanite (Aug 21, 2014)

That settles it then.  By the way, the headstamp "PPU" means the brass was made by Prvi Partizan, an ammunition company in Serbia.  I'm kind of surprised, as 55mm is longer than a slimline tube (just over 51mm).  You should have had no problem seating the transmission deep enough.

You could probably "neck-up" the brass to match a slimline nosecone, but it might be challenging without the proper dies. 

I generally recommend 308 Win (or its military twin 7.62x51mm NATO) caliber shellcases for making pens with a slimline nosecone.  The 51.2mm long case is almost an exact match for the length of a slimline tube and the case mouth diameter is close to the nosecone diameter.  That means the whole assembly is a direct replacement for a normal slimline lower half.

For pens using a real bullet as the nosecone, 30-06 Sprg caliber is a good choice.  When the bullet is seated to SAAMI specs (taking into account the length lost by drilling out the tip), the transmission will seat a little deeper, but sill hold the upper barrel and function well.  Pen proportions still look good, especially if you omit the centerband.

I hope that helps,
Eric


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## texaswoodworker (Aug 22, 2014)

Rockytime said:


> texaswoodworker said:
> 
> 
> > Sylvanite said:
> ...



There are ways you can enlarge the neck diameter, your idea may work. You'll want to anneal (heat) the neck of the case to prevent it from cracking/spliting. This makes the brass softer. It needs to be heated to to around 750 degrees (F). Normally, you want to keep the base cool (below 400 degrees) otherwise you could create a very dangerous situation if it were to be fired in a gun, but that doesn't apply here since it won't ever be fired. Just make sure the neck gets nice and hot. It should just begin to turn a slight blueish color when it is annealed. That can be polished out. With a propane torch, it should only take a few seconds.

The 2nd casing has been annealed.


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## vtgaryw (Aug 22, 2014)

I can make slimline style bullet pens pretty cheaply (not including labor).

Here's what I found works good for me.

I buy 150 grain FMJ 308 dia. bullets from Midway USA.  Box of 100 for 
$ 22.99.  Once-fired brass from Ken's Brass.  21 pieces for $ 8.88.  I can put a nice rifle or deer clip on it, and still have only $ 5- $ 6 into it.  Most of the ones I make are of deer antler.

I turn a tenon on the end of the bullet first.  Then melt out most of the lead with a mini-butane torch.  Then drill out the tip.

The brass I go in down the next with a bit through the flash hole, knocks out most of the primer.  Then size the primer end to fit the transmission.

Solder the bullet to the tube, then glue or solder the bullet/tube into the brass.  Might have to round the neck of the brass a bit on some, but it's pretty simple.

-gary


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## vtgaryw (Aug 22, 2014)

Whoops, posted two of the same pics in my last post.  2nd pic was meant to be this one.


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## Rockytime (Aug 22, 2014)

I am pleased and impressed with all the suggestions and ideas from all of you. This is like an electronic encyclopedia. Thanks to each and every one of you.
Kindest Regards, Les


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## wyone (Aug 22, 2014)

I would be very interested once you figure out how to do that. I have a good friend who I am sure has whatever bullet size might be necessary.  He is shall we say a gun enthusiast.  LOL.  Anyway, if you figure out what you might want to use I can ask him to send me a few.  He lives in Cheyenne, so would take a few days, but he probably has buckets, LITERALLY, of spent ammo in his garage.


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## Rockytime (Aug 23, 2014)

Thanks everyone for the many replies. It's a been a good education on rifle cartridges. I have attached a few photos of what I did today. I made a die of 12L14 and used the tailstock of my lathe for a ram. It works OK. I made a successful stretched neck but is it worth the work? I don't think so. But it is fun just to see what will work, and it did work. The photos are as follows:

1. This is the die I made.
2. This is the first stretching I tried.
3. O CRAP! I annealed the neck as well as the shoulder of the cartridge. One lesson learned.
4. Having a bit more luck. I wrapped the cartridge in a wet shop cloth and re-annealed the neck. I did this several times because with each press of the neck onto the die the brass work hardens. But at last the neck went onto the die. I know nothing about bullets and reloading but I doubt anywone would stretch the neck .025" which I did.
5. Which die has the Toni. If you are under 50 you will probably not know what that means. Most of us older gentlemen (I use that loosely) know. The top worked out perfectly. The bottom?

Thanks again to everyone for some interesting reading of which I do a lot.

Kindest Regards. Les


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## Janster (Sep 17, 2014)

texaswoodworker said:


> Rockytime said:
> 
> 
> > Many thanks for the replies and suggestions. A kind turner on this site has offered to send me several 30-06 cartridges for further experimentation. as you can see from the attached photo the first experiment failed because I should have extended the brass tube in the cartridge further to allow for the transmission and reduced the length of the brass tube in the wood blank. Live and learn.I have a small machine shop and can turn a bullet shaped nib from aluminum or stainless. I see bullet pens on ebay supposedly made in the USA selling for under 20 dollars. If it is true someone is not even covering their costs considering equipment and supplies. Pens are just entertainment for me.
> ...




...762X 54?


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## Wayne (Dec 14, 2019)

Anyone have the original Little River Craft Bullet instructions? 
They are no longer available, new owners of web site, weird!


ShortActionInstructions.pdf

LongActionInstructions.pdf

300WinMagInstructions.pdf

338WinMagInstructions.pdf

50BMG_Instructions.pdf


Or any others from them.

I'd like to have these available for our bushing and pen charts.


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## Don Rabchenuk (Dec 15, 2019)

Here is one I found.


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## Wayne (Dec 15, 2019)

Thank you!


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## Wayne (Jun 3, 2020)

Wayne said:


> Anyone have the original Little River Craft Bullet instructions?
> They are no longer available, new owners of web site, weird!
> 
> 
> ...



Still Looking for:

ShortActionInstructions.pdf
LongActionInstructions.pdf

Yes I know they are not selling these anymore.


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## keithlong (Jun 3, 2020)

When I make cartridge pens using brass casing, I use 30.06 or 308 casings. I bought a box of 100 copper jacker bullets for 30.06 and melted the lead out of them, then you can put the bullet jacket in a drill chuck or collet chuck on while the lathe is running slow file down the point to where there is a flat spot on it and measure the tip of the cross refill with calibers to get the correct drill size and drill a hole nt the jacket and you have a nib now. I usually turn the jacket around and drill a shallow 7mm hole in it for the tube to rest in and also to glue the tube in. Or if you want to use the nib from a slimline kit, just cut a short piece of 8mm tube and glue it in the bullet end of the casing then just place the 7mm tube inside it and press the nib in it.


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## Sylvanite (Jun 3, 2020)

Wayne said:


> Still Looking for:
> 
> ShortActionInstructions.pdf
> LongActionInstructions.pdf
> ...


Before you publish(ed) them, did you seek permission from the copyright holder?


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## Wayne (Jun 3, 2020)

Sylvanite said:


> Before you publish(ed) them, did you seek permission from the copyright holder?


Does some person have a copyright ownership that you think would upset them? Do you feel I should not make then available on the forum? We have many suppliers instructions online and they know I'm just offering them as a helping hand. 

I would understand. It would be there for past purchased kits, as a backup for those who might have lost them.

What do you thing Eric?


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## Sylvanite (Jun 4, 2020)

Wayne said:


> Does some person have a copyright ownership that you think would upset them? Do you feel I should not make then available on the forum? We have many suppliers instructions online and they know I'm just offering them as a helping hand.


I'm pretty sure that permission would be easy to obtain if you asked .  Posting copyrighted material without permission, however, is against the law.

Regards, 
Eric


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