# Pendant Backer Plate Howto/Mini-review



## alphageek

OK... Lots of pictures, some text.. Hopefully this will help.
My Setup... Mini lathe, Ruth Niles stopper Mandrel, Deluxe Backer plate.

See Thumbnails for closeups...
Picture 1 - backer plate on mandrel, sacrificial wood double stick taped to the plate. 
Picture 2 - Material double stuck to the wood block. (in this case corian)... I suggest you have turned the wood block round and smaller than the pendant size desired.
Picture 3 - Tail stock brought up to support material during rounding (optional, but makes it more stable for me) .... Lathe set fairly fast.
Picture 4 - Rounded off, thinned out to desired thickness.. Note rounded both front and back, which is why the smaller wood block rounded.
Picture 5 - After decorative cuts made, moved to offset whole and drill brought up to drill starter hole. ... Lathe set much slower for this and next steps.
Picture 6 - whole rounded out and smoothed as desired.
Picture 7 - Final product
Picture 8 -  This is the next one I made and the reason for the 'deluxe' model over the basic.   After all the above steps were done, rotate the front part of the plate to different positions and make other 'offset' cuts.   The deluxe model is what will allow MUCH more variation in patterns.

This is a great little addon... The ways of mounting this are varied, but the tools works GREAT.   I'm quickly getting the knack of this offset turning and looking forward to trying other things with it.

One last comment... As you are playing, I suggest WRITING down the settings you used. As you find variations you like, you'll want to remember how you did it!


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## wb7whi

I have not looked at this very closely yet. I am assuming there are several holes in the back for the mandril offset. Is the glueblock just taped to the faceplace? What are all the holes for on the face? Are the holes the difference between the regular model and the newer plate?

The pictures help. Thanks


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## alphageek

Hopefully these 2 pictures will help again (Richards post has some too, but I figured this will be easier than finding that thread in the future)...
Picture 1 shows the "mandrel side" with one screw removed.
Picture 2 shows the pieces apart (main part, 4 screws and face plate)

There is 7 offset holes in addition to the center one on the main piece.
The 24 holes are so you can easily rotate the part to different angles.  For example, the 2 'arcs' in the 2nd pendant above are from the same offset hole, but rotated by a couple of holes.

And yes, the wood block is just double sided tape stuck to the 2nd plate.  I've done multiple pendants with the same block so far.

The difference between the basic and the deluxe is the 4 additional holes, the screws and the extra plate with the 24 holes.


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## beck3906

What are you using to hold the backer plate in the lathe?


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## alphageek

beck3906 said:


> What are you using to hold the backer plate in the lathe?



As stated at the top I'm using a Ruth Niles bottle stopper madrel.   However any way that you can get a 3/8-16 bolt to spin would work.   See Johns picture in the main thread or see ruths site.   She has some other cheap ways to do this for bottle stoppers and any of those would work too.


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## mokol

i am woundering how the back is handled.
is it done first? if so, is finished at that time?
if it is finished after the front , will the tape hold it? and
would the tape ruin the finish?
thanks for your help, victor


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## alphageek

mokol said:


> i am woundering how the back is handled.
> is it done first? if so, is finished at that time?
> if it is finished after the front , will the tape hold it? and
> would the tape ruin the finish?
> thanks for your help, victor




Victor, this is the area I'm most curious about others replies.   For the corian ones, nothing really is needed.   The back can be buffed out if desired, but I find it looks fine natural, maybe just a little had polishing.

Wood on the other hand it tougher.   So far, I finish the back first then flip it.   The tape doesn't ruin the finish, but it doesn't seem to stick as well for me.   I'm still working on perfecting this and I hope others chime in with their tips.


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## beck3906

I remembered the Arizona Silhouette site and thought of the mandrels and the buffing handle.

http://www.arizonasilhouette.com/Bottle_Stopper_Kits.htm

You could take the backer plate off the mandrel and attach it to the buffing handle to buff on a wheel.  It would get the pendant far enough from your hands and also allow a better grasp so the pendant doesn't get pulled out of your fingers and slammed against the floor.


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## louisbry

Your pendants look great Dean.  Thanks for the review.


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## rsx1974

*Great write-up Brother*

Perfect timing, Richard called me last night and asked me to do the same thing.

For those of you who didn't catch the first thread, Richard (sailing away) designed and sent these out to be manufactured .  I think he is still selling his introductory run of these at a great price, I would get one while the getting good.

I plan to do some segmented off-set pendants this week and will post pictures ASAP.

Can't wait to see what other people do with this new tool.


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## hewunch

Just remember when segmenting you want a solid piece of wood behind the segmenting so it does not blow apart.


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## broitblat

alphageek said:


> Victor, this is the area I'm most curious about others replies. For the corian ones, nothing really is needed. The back can be buffed out if desired, but I find it looks fine natural, maybe just a little had polishing.
> 
> Wood on the other hand it tougher. So far, I finish the back first then flip it. The tape doesn't ruin the finish, but it doesn't seem to stick as well for me. I'm still working on perfecting this and I hope others chime in with their tips.


 
I send the backs by hand.  I find a little vigorous use of sand paper does fine up to 600 and then I move to the buffer.

  -Barry


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## fernhills

I sand the backs on glass, a few drops of water on small squares of the various grits keeps sand paper from moving. carl


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## jimofsanston

*Backer plate*

Where did you get the backer plate?
 Can't seem to find for sale anywhere.


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## alphageek

jimofsanston said:


> Where did you get the backer plate?
> Can't seem to find for sale anywhere.



Richard (sailing_away here on IAP) is having them made.
See here:
http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=48855&page=3

I have no idea how fast these can be made, but man - there has to be one heck of a waiting list right now!


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## mickr

CSUSA carries a small eccentric "chuck" that could be used for this process..same idea..it fits in standard 2" jaws of any chuck...just another option


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## alphageek

mickr said:


> CSUSA carries a small eccentric "chuck" that could be used for this process..same idea..it fits in standard 2" jaws of any chuck...just another option



Thats true, but at 3x the cost of the unit Richard is sellng.  Now for all I know that one from CSUSA may be better, but I don't know its features.


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## alphageek

Update!  I've switched over to using a PSI mandrel that screws on the headstock.  I highly recommend this... I still like the Ruth mandrel for my bottle stoppers, but the PSI one is more stable when used with the pendant backer plate.


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## beck3906

When using one of the off-center holes. do you remove the thumb screw if it's in the way?

Also, my double sided tape seems to not hold the waste block well enough.  Are you using the tail stock to hold the pendant piece in place?


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## alphageek

beck3906 said:


> When using one of the off-center holes. do you remove the thumb screw if it's in the way?
> 
> Also, my double sided tape seems to not hold the waste block well enough.  Are you using the tail stock to hold the pendant piece in place?



Yep.. There is a few holes that require using only 3 thumbscrews.

In picture 3 you can see I tend to bring up the tailstock just while rounding.  This isn't always necessary, but helps with the harder materials.

Also - for waste block, I have been using a hole saw to cut pieces out of an old laminate shelf.   The waste block doesn't budge at all and the face works great until I use too many of the different holes, then I replace it.


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## Grizz

So cool!  Thanks for sharing.


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## bitshird

Are you drilling the through hole with the tailstock or using a drill? I still haven't had much chance to try mine, I guess I started off wrong by rounding my blank using the center hole didn't think ahead enough, Geez I've worked with indexing heads for years but this has me bum fuzzled.


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## bitshird

By the way Duck brand double sided tape has held pretty well 6.00 at Wal-Mart in the paint department


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## foneman

bitshird said:


> Are you drilling the through hole with the tailstock or using a drill? I still haven't had much chance to try mine, I guess I started off wrong by rounding my blank using the center hole didn't think ahead enough, Geez I've worked with indexing heads for years but this has me bum fuzzled.




I do the same as you by rounding and shaping the blank using the center hole. Then I move to a different "drive hole" connected to the headstock to drill and use the tail stock with a drill chuck and bit. Be sure to slow it down a bunch to eliminate the vibration. I then shape the hole I drilled and sand. You can then move back to your center drive hole for any finish sanding or shaping or any other drive hole for other artistic effects. 

Thanks for the heads-up on the wally world tape!! I have some old "stuff" that works but not the best. 

Any recommendations on cord or chain for the pendant?

Thanks,

john


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## pentex

Very nice. Where did you get the clips that the strap goes thru and are these leather straps? Thanks.


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## markgum

o.k. I'm befuddled by the shaping of the hole after drilling.  I get the part about moving it to an off center hole for the drilling but shaping the hole don't click... 
thanks.


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## beck3906

Use a skew and bevel the edge of the hole.


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## alphageek

Ok.. Answering some questions:
The bails (the clips) were found at michaels as was the leather cord.   Still looking for improved versions of both, so if anyone gets some online please give feedback.

As for the hole, a skew works... But I often expand/taper the hole with a really small gouge that I have.  (REALLY small - like 1/4" in diameter).


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## pentex

Dean, one more question, please. What size are these pendants?


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## juteck

My daughter has seen enough of these pendants posted here, and now wants one. In my search of how-to info, I found this article that has some good step by step photos:

http://www.woodworkersinstitute.com/print.asp?p=594

(I may even have saved this link from one of the several discussions on this forum -- so many links / so much information to keep track of.)


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## alphageek

pentex said:


> Dean, one more question, please. What size are these pendants?



Mine tend to end up around 1 1/2" to 1 3/4" in diameter (but I have made a few smaller) and I aim for about 1/4" thick when done at the thickest part..

Here is a few more for ideas for others:


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## sefali

Alphageek, The one in the top right corner - did you shape it that way because of the grain pattern? They match up just perfect, I think. With that said, the one to its left is my favorite. Gotta get some money for one of these plates.:redface:


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## alphageek

sefali said:


> Alphageek, The one in the top right corner - did you shape it that way because of the grain pattern? They match up just perfect, I think. With that said, the one to its left is my favorite. Gotta get some money for one of these plates.:redface:



The top right was a slice of a BOW bottle stopper.. I have a round one with almost the same grain... Looks great both ways.   The one next to it is corian with a strip of yellowheart & purple heart scraps.   And the one next to that has blue chip acrylic and looks WAY better in person.


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## sefali

alphageek said:


> The top right was a slice of a BOW bottle stopper.. I have a round one with almost the same grain... Looks great both ways.   The one next to it is corian with a strip of yellowheart & purple heart scraps.   And the one next to that has blue chip acrylic and looks WAY better in person.



Thanks. Would you mind posting a pic of the other BOW pendant? I'd like to see how the shape change the overall look.


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## alphageek

sefali said:


> Thanks. Would you mind posting a pic of the other BOW pendant? I'd like to see how the shape change the overall look.



NP.. Here you go - an adjacent slice...


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## sefali

Thanks. I like that one too, but the other I like better. The odd shape suites the crazy circle grain better.


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## BobBurt

How is the back of the Pendant finished?????  or Is it?????

Thanks


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## Mack C.

alphageek said:


> Richard (sailing_away here on IAP) is having them made.
> See here:
> http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=48855&page=3
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have no idea how fast these can be made, but man - there has to be one heck of a waiting list right now!
> 
> 
> 
> I was # 137 down the list. I ordered on Aug. 4, and received it on the 12th, and I'm in Canada.
Click to expand...


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## alphageek

BobBurt said:


> How is the back of the Pendant finished?????  or Is it?????
> 
> Thanks



Depends on the material, but I pretty much finish the back by hand... Sand them on a piece of glass and hand finish.  The backs don't end up looking quite as nice as the front, but the look ok enough.


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## BobBurt

alphageek said:


> Depends on the material, but I pretty much finish the back by hand... Sand them on a piece of glass and hand finish.  The backs don't end up looking quite as nice as the front, but the look ok enough.



Sorry....Do you turn the back side???? or Do you just leave it????? I understand you have to finish it by hand

Can you explain how the back is done???? PLEASE

Thanks


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## byounghusband

Most pf the back is not turned.  See Dean's pics at the beginnig of this thread.    

You turn the edge and a bit of the back and the rest is sanded by hand.  You could make the piece the pendant attaches to a bit smaller, but might risk it coming off as you turn the front.




BobBurt said:


> Sorry....Do you turn the back side???? or Do you just leave it????? I understand you have to finish it by hand
> 
> Can you explain how the back is done???? PLEASE
> 
> Thanks


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## alphageek

Yes Bob .... Bob has it right... (tell me that's not confusing)

The back is flat and mostly not turned.  My backer plate is smaller than the final piece so that I can round over the edge, but the majority isn't turned.

Dean


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## BobBurt

Got it....Thank You very much


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## byounghusband

Hey Dean,
I just got  my backer plate and jumped right in...  I had some doublesided tape failures  (still looking for the pendant... ) and wonder if it could be one of the following:
1. Older DS tape in Texas heat
2. Too fast (1800 rpm)
3. Too thick of material.  Started with regular corian, then scrap pine, both 1/2" thick.

Maybe combination of all?


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## wb7whi

I recieved my plates today. The main plate is very straight forward and I have no questions about it but the other plate with all the holes along the edge still confuses me. Is it an index plate similiar to what my lathe uses? How do you use it?

Thanks


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## baileyr4

Hey Wayne, 

Check out this thread where Barry gave some very good instructions on using the index plate to make a triangular pendant.  Read it carefully and it should give you some ideas of how to use it.
http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=49671

Rodney


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## alphageek

byounghusband said:


> Hey Dean,
> I just got  my backer plate and jumped right in...  I had some doublesided tape failures  (still looking for the pendant... ) and wonder if it could be one of the following:
> 1. Older DS tape in Texas heat
> 2. Too fast (1800 rpm)
> 3. Too thick of material.  Started with regular corian, then scrap pine, both 1/2" thick.
> 
> Maybe combination of all?



I don't think 2 or 3 are a problem... I go that fast when on the centered parts (not the offsets) and many of my corian start as standard corian samples, etc at 1/2 inch.

Maybe its the DS tape?  I use the good pressure DS turning tape and have no issues in general.

Also what are you using for a backer?   I used a hole saw to cut small discs out of a white laminate shelf board.   The laminate is an EXCELLENT backer (until it gets too many holes from the offset holes).


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## alphageek

wb7whi said:


> I recieved my plates today. The main plate is very straight forward and I have no questions about it but the other plate with all the holes along the edge still confuses me. Is it an index plate similiar to what my lathe uses? How do you use it?
> 
> Thanks



The index plate has MANY uses - only a few of which I think are discovered YET.

- I have tried the triangles that Rodney linked too.. VERY COOL!
- I have used it to rotate the piece after initial turning to make grooves at different arcs.
- If you have a patterned piece (grain or segmentation), you may want to rotate to put the hole in a specific place.   The plate allows you to rotate the piece to position the hole where desired.

And I BELIEVE there will be more ideas to come.


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## jleiwig

different tapes will do different things.  I have 3m carpet tape here at the house and it's not stout enough to hold.  It basically twists itself off.  I used the turners tape that Woodcraft sells in their store for my demo the other day, and if I used a block of wood and the tailstock to create a clamp for about 2 or 3 minutes it was darn near impossible to get the thing off after I was done turning it!


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## jleiwig

alphageek said:


> The index plate has MANY uses - only a few of which I think are discovered YET.
> 
> - I have tried the triangles that Rodney linked too.. VERY COOL!
> - I have used it to rotate the piece after initial turning to make grooves at different arcs.
> - If you have a patterned piece (grain or segmentation), you may want to rotate to put the hole in a specific place. The plate allows you to rotate the piece to position the hole where desired.
> 
> And I BELIEVE there will be more ideas to come.


 
I'm thinking jar tops for candles or jelly jars or whatever you wanted.  A nice mason jar with a cookie mix made up inside with a lattice turned top would be great. 

The book woodturning wizardry has a good section on lattice circles, but he doesn't have the fancy equipment that we do!


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## jleiwig

http://books.google.com/books?id=Pc_POrbgqNYC&pg=PA58&lpg=PA58&dq=making+lattice+circles&source=bl&ots=6RM-lFweS5&sig=9xJyr35iM_8Ev4vPw9oVfAwwcT8&hl=en&ei=RnGISrv3AtWOtgeim93nDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5#v=onepage&q=making%20lattice%20circles&f=false


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## herbk

just a question,  I am assuming that the back of the pendants are flat (is that correct?) and do you bevel the hole on both sides?


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## alphageek

herbk said:


> just a question,  I am assuming that the back of the pendants are flat (is that correct?) and do you bevel the hole on both sides?



Correct - the back is flat.   I will try to bevel the hole a bit from the front or hand sand it a tad after removed.


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## scturner

Hello all,

I hope you guys can help out with this. I'm trying to elongate the hole after it's been drilled toward the center of the pendant. Today, I turned a 1.5" pendant from some nice cocobolo. I turned it using the center hole in the backer plate, then move to the #2 offset hole for drilling which worked out fine. But if I start to open up the hole to soften the edge staying with the #2 offset (inline with mandrel) the hole simply gets wider as I remove wood but won't elongate more toward the center. 

I've seen some pendants here where the hole opening is toward the center rather than just opened up, hope that makes sense. To do what I'm after, I don't know if you change the backer plate to a different setting (hole) or move the index plate to a certain number or a combination of both... confused about getting this right. When I figure it out then I can do it consistantly. Any help would be appeciated.

Thank,
David


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## alphageek

David, 

I believe the look that you are aiming for is done by cutting at almost 90 degrees to the way you cut to widen the hole.   You didn't say what tool you use to widen the hole, but to make the whole more 'faded' you need to cut the pendant more like a scraper.   AFAIK, this should work with any hole setting.


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## scturner

Hi alphageek, thanks for your reply. I use a 1/4" miniature round nose scraper to open up the hole. It came in a set of mini tools and works pretty well for this purpose. I also do a lot of duck and goose calls and it's always worked great for relieving back pressure and fluting the ends in calls.

Anyway, you may be right about cutting at 90 degrees to the hole. More softing I think needs to be done for a better look, something I will work on with these. Here's a pic of a Bocote pendant done last Saturday with just Mylands FP, not bad but I think a CA finish or spray lacquer would be far better. I'll continue working on the hole thing. Thanks,


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## wb7whi

I have been using a spray shellac with light sanding between coats and it has been working ok.


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