# First lathe help



## e094228 (Nov 24, 2016)

So after a long time of wet shaving, Im wanting to turn my own handles. Nothing more. Mostly wood with some resins and acrylics. I was all set to buy a used Delta 1642 for $550, but for whatever reason the seller backed out and decided to keep it. I have a budget of about $800 for the lathe, but have never turned. Heres what im looking for. 

-I DO NOT want to change any belts. Time doing that is time away from turning or family. 

-need the adapters/parts to work on upgraded lathe down the line. Dont want to buy a nice chuck now, only for it not to work later on an upgrade. 

 Ive looked at everything from HF 1/2hp lathe to Jet 1221 and everything in between. $219-$799. Its kinda overwhelming. Please help


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## Marmotjr (Nov 24, 2016)

I'm not very well versed in the full range of lathes out there, but here's a couple things I have learned:

My lathe is an electronic variable speed, but it also has a belt change system for low and high range.   A well designed belt system only takes a few seconds to swap over.  I actually enjoy having the option of the multiple speed ranges.  Don't discount a lathe that has complimentary drive systems, as it expands the range of what you are capable of doing, with minimal time loss on your part.  

AS long as you get a Morse Taper 2 (MT2) and a 1"-8 thread drive shaft, the vast majority of the accessories made for mini and midi lathes will fit.  MT1 parts are harder to find and are pretty much usable (AFIK) on the smaller mini lathes.  I haven't really seen MT3 parts, but I know they exist, but they (and the bigger MT setups) are really for the bigguns.  Some midi/full lathes have a 1 1/4" - 6 (or -8?) drive, but in my experience most of the chucks and other threaded do-dads are 1"-8.  And if the accessory you want is not of the same thread, adapters are very common.

But if all you're planning to do is turn some handles, then you could easily do this with a home built drill powered lathe.   There's tons of videos on how to do this.


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## JimB (Nov 24, 2016)

There are VS (variable speed) lathes from Jet, Rikon, PSI and others that will fit your budget. Remember, VS does not mean no belt changes. It usually means on each belt setting you have VS. If you want the very lowest or very highest speed you move the belt. I have the Jet 1014vs. I do all turning on only one belt position as that gives me all the range I need.

You also make it sound like changing the belt position is a major task. It isn't. It takes seconds, not minutes.

As far as tooling fitting future lathes goes, well that depends. You will want an MT2 taper as that is standard on the lathes I mention and on most bigger lathes. As far as chucks that is a different story. 1x8 Spindle is the standard on the lathes I mention. On larger lathes such as the Jet 1642, Powermatic and other large lathes the spindles are usually 1 1/4 by 8. You will need a different chuck or an adapter. There's really no way around that.

I hope that helps you.


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## e094228 (Nov 24, 2016)

Thanks everyone. So knowing that im ONLY using this for shave brush handles, what would you recommend?


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## Marmotjr (Nov 24, 2016)

Well, since a shave handle is nothing more than a pen with different ends on it, take a look at some of the starter kits that PSI offers.   Pen turning takes a bunch of little pieces of hardware, and the PSI kits have 95% of the stuff you need to get started.  And like I said, there is no difference between razor handle turning and pen turning, so try researching pen turning lathes too, you'll get better results too.


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## JimB (Nov 24, 2016)

e094228 said:


> Thanks everyone. So knowing that im ONLY using this for shave brush handles, what would you recommend?



The problem is, many people say they will only turn pens (or in your case shaving brushes). Then after a few months they realize they want to do more and want or need more lathe to do it. 

To only do brushes all you need is a basic lathe. Get one with MT2 taper and 1x8 Spindle because you will find it much easier to get accessories. VS will add at least $100 to the cost and is a very nice feature but is not necessary. The Jet 1015, Rikon or Commander (PSI) equivalents will all do the trick. I think the HF lathes have different MT and Spindle size.

As I said, i started with a Jet 1014vs (Jet has since replaced it with the 1015) because I thought all I would do is small items. 2 years later I bought my second lathe, a full size from Grizzly because I wanted to do larger items.


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## e094228 (Nov 24, 2016)

Would the Rikon 70-105 be worth the extra $120 over the HF mini? Looks the same. Or should money be spent on at least a 1hp motor


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## Mr Vic (Nov 24, 2016)

My advice for what it's worth. . . Take a trip over to the Woodcraft in Rochester. Take to the folks and look at lathes, tooling etc.. If they offer them, maybe take a class on pens/other turning. You may find you love it or decide you don't.

I also recommend checking out a nearby American Association of Woodturners. A lot of them have classes, mentors and just plain old folks more then willing to help new turners. A good way to check out some different lathes in operation. Here's a link to your Local AAW Chapter: Genesee Valley Woodturners Guild - American Association of Woodturners . 

Have fun turning...


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## JimB (Nov 24, 2016)

Not sure which HF lathe you are looking at. They have 2 mini lathes. One is $99 but is 1/3 hp, MT1 and I believe a smaller Spindle. All of that means you will have trouble finding accessories. The other one they have is $220 and is similar to the Rikonyou mention but since I have never used it or really looked at it I will not speak to quality.

The Rikon you mention is currently a Black Friday offer at Woodcraft for $250. It a good deal if that is all you need in a lathe. It is a belt changer. 

FYI, I suggest adding your location to your profile. You might find by adding your location that another member may be near by that could help you decide by showing you their lathe.


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## e094228 (Nov 24, 2016)

Clarence, NY (outside Buffalo)


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## Mr Vic (Nov 24, 2016)

JimB said:


> Not sure which HF lathe you are looking at. They have 2 mini lathes. One is $99 but is 1/3 hp, MT1 and I believe a smaller Spindle. All of that means you will have trouble finding accessories. The other one they have is $220 and is similar to the Rikonyou mention but since I have never used it or really looked at it I will not speak to quality.
> 
> The Rikon you mention is currently a Black Friday offer at Woodcraft for $250. It a good deal if that is all you need in a lathe. It is a belt changer.
> 
> FYI, I suggest adding your location to your profile. You might find by adding your location that another member may be near by that could help you decide by showing you their lathe.


 
Oops, I looked at JimB's location when I looked up Woodcraft and the AAW Chapter.


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## Skie_M (Nov 24, 2016)

If you really JUST want to get into basic pen and razor handle turning (with some seam rippers and keychains on the side) the Harbor Freight Mini Wood Lathe (8x12) for 130 dollars is probably the best deal you'll see.  Wait till there's a 25% off coupon and you can take your lathe home for 100 dollars + tax.

This 1/3 HP mini wood lathe comes with electronic variable speed control ... only one belt and pulley, just turn a knob and you have between 750 and 3200 RPM, though I think the low speed on mine is half the stated value, around 300 RPM.  I have more than enough power to turn razor handles, pens, keychains, even bottle stoppers ... and if I feel like it, small bowls and other little projects.

In order to turn the small items, you'll need a mandrel and the kits ... may as well get all that from PSI.  I highly recommend the MT1 mandrel saver kit, which will come with 5 7mm bushings, the MT1 mandrel, the MT1 mandrel saver, and the 7MM brad point drill bit.  After that, pick up the razor handle kit of your choice ... perhaps toss in some wood or acrylic blanks, and if you feel up to it, grab a starter kit for some pens or keychains too!  

Your wife or mom (or some other lady in your life) will likely appreciate a hand made seam ripper for sewing projects too ... and handmade turned Christmas ornaments aren't all that difficult! 

As for lathe tools ... Harbor Freight, 8-pack of lathe chisels for around 15 dollars.  They aren't very sharp right out of the box, so unless you have a decent sander already, grab one of the combo sanders from Harbor Freight and that should help you keep a good edge on your tools.  You'll want to keep the same bevel angles, to start with, and just put a good sharp edge on them.  You'll also want to pick up your sandpaper in packs from Harbor Freight as well ... decent quality at a good price.

While you're there ... their tubes of superglue make an excellent finish for wooden items, especially if you are making razor handles!  Always make sure to seal the ends of your razor handles as well, to keep the ends from absorbing water and swelling.  I put 9 coats of CA on my cocobolo safety razor handle, and it's held up well for over a year now!   Still shines like the day I finished it, chrome and all.


The mini wood lathe has #1 Morse Taper attachment points, as I mentioned above.  The spindle is threaded for 3/4" x 10  (10 threads per inch, 3/4 inch wide).  You'll want to ensure that any accessories you get for it will fit or have an attachment to let you fit it to this lathe.  Most lathe accessories you get WILL be made for a midi lathe or larger, with a 1" x 8 spindle attachment, but 90% of them will ALSO come with an adapter that will attach internally to a 3/4" x 10 spindle, adding barely half an inch to your spindle length.  I have no problems working with my 4-jaw chuck.

The lowest cost way to obtain a chuck of some sort for this lathe is to order one online through Harbor Freight Tools.  They have a 3-jaw scrolling jaw chuck with a #1 Morse Taper built in.  It's only about 30 dollars + shipping.  The nearest competitor is PSI at over 50 dollars + shipping, and the quality is pretty much exactly the same.  (edit - forgot PSI's 3/8ths drill chuck with #1MT ... it's only around 15 bucks, and is an improvement over the handheld drilling, so get one when you can!)


I generally just turn my blanks round between centers (spur center and live center), and then grip it in the 3-jaw chuck (automatically centers round objects) to cut it to length ... Once I have the length I want, then I put it right back into the 3-jaw chuck and drill it.  I took the 3-jaw keyless chuck off of a cheap 12-dollar Harbor Freight corded 3/8ths drill and put my 7mm drill bit in it ... and HELD IT BY HAND to drill my hole through the blank as it was spinning on my lathe.  Make sure you have a center hole and hold the bit steady as you drill .... the spinning blank will NATURALLY self-center the hole.  Just don't pull it to the side as you drill. 

After that ... superglue the barrel into the blank, put it on the mandrel between the bushings, and turn it to your satisfaction .... sand, finish, polish, give it a coat of wax for extra protection if you like, and enjoy!


Now ... if you EVER decide to move up to a larger lathe in the future ... the only items you likely won't be able to re-use is anything with a 3/4" x 10 spindle thread or #1MT.  In my case, I'll still be able to use my 4-jaw scrolling chuck from PSI, but I'ld have to replace my mandrel and mandrel saver as well as my drill chuck #1MT and my 3-jaw scrolling chuck with #1MT.  All in all, that's not that big a replacement cost ... we're talking less than 70 bucks lost.


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## JimB (Nov 24, 2016)

e094228 said:


> Clarence, NY (outside Buffalo)



There is a Rockler in Buffalo very close to you. There are also 3 turning clubs in the Buffalo area. All of them are AAW chapters. There is a Woodcraft here in Rochester.


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## e094228 (Nov 24, 2016)

been to rockler. nice people. They recommended at least 3/4 hp for polyester resins and acrylic turning.


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## Skie_M (Nov 24, 2016)

Oh, by the way ... any 4-jaw chuck you buy other than PSI's MINI barracuda 3 will be made for a midi lathe, with the 1" x 8 spindle attachment ... they also pretty much all come with an adapter for mini lathe use already included in the package.  I got the Utililty Grip 4-jaw scrolling chuck from PSI .... uses tommy bars to open/close rather than a key, but I like it.  It also uses type "C" jaws, making all the jaw sets I got 100% compatible with a Barracuda 2 keyed 4-jaw chuck, if I ever want to upgrade to that base in the future.  I only paid 100 for my Utility Grip ... the basic Barracuda 2 will run you around 160 dollars.

YOU DO NOT NEED A 4-JAW CHUCK TO TURN JUST RAZOR HANDLES.  If you get one, and you obviously have a little extra money to spend, you may as well go for the Barracuda 2.  You'll still be able to use it if you upgrade the lathe later ... you just won't need the adapter anymore! 



e094228 said:


> been to rockler. nice people. They recommended at least 3/4 hp for polyester resins and acrylic turning.



Oh yeah, they sure lied very nicely to you.  I use the Harbor Freight mini ...

I turn antler, bone, every type of plastic and acrylic I've come across, alabaster, soapstone, crystal, ect ...

I even turn wood.... Ebony is about the hardest wood I've turned ... it gives me a LITTLE trouble with the drilling, but it finishes up just fine.  I even play with hard surface countertop materials like Corian and imitation marble.  My carbide tipped tool gets a heck of a workout with Italian Alabaster ... my high speed steel tools lose their edge against that in under 10 seconds flat, but with carbide, it's no problem.

1/3 HP is plenty for what you wanna do right now ... they just want to make a sale.


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## RobS (Nov 24, 2016)

Rockler is having 15% off on jet. I love my 1221 and the belt changes are less than 30 seconds. The new locking clutch is awesome in clicks into position 1 or 2 (engaged/ disengaged) with minimal effort for tooless belt changes. 
Rockler also has the nova Chuck on sale for $80 which would screw right on. They also have a $60 full sized round carbide cutter.

All are tools I love and have been using for bottle stoppers, pens and handles.


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## JimB (Nov 24, 2016)

e094228 said:


> been to rockler. nice people. They recommended at least 3/4 hp for polyester resins and acrylic turning.



That's nonsense as far as I'm concerned. Although 99% of everything I turn is wood I have never had my 1/2 hp Jet even hint at slowing when turning the size pieces you will be turning. I have had it bog down when turning large spindles or bowls that are near the capacity of the lathe.

If you are going to get into larger turnings, yes, you will want more HP and lathe capacity. 

I'm actually surprised they told you that. I have shopped at that store many times and always felt I got good advice from the people there.


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## e094228 (Nov 24, 2016)

tbh, i didnt think anything of it. If I can turn my brush handles on 1/2 great. I just want a "quality" lathe. If 1/2 hp is plenty sufficient, then pleas recommend me sonething decent that will last, which a nice quality chuck


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## Dan Masshardt (Nov 24, 2016)

The nova comet is at rockler Black Friday with G3 chuck for $500

Jet lathes will also be on sale.  The 1221 is a great lathe and much more than you need for brushes but is heavy and super stable.  

The rikon midi is similar in specs to the jet 1221 and a great deal especially when on sale.  

The jet mini with variable speed would be all you need to turn brushes well.  

All these lathes have belts but use the knob within a belt setting.  

If you want to look into something for the different models, look at the rpm range on the medium and high settinngs for each one.  I know I can leave my 1221 on the high pulled and spin the knob for everything from turning, sanding and finishing.  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TonyL (Nov 24, 2016)

1221vs with reverse  within  your budget   you get 15% off    you will get all that you want and more if you want to turn  larger objects  the  belts have a large range  after w2 .5 years , I still  haven't changed the belts
     I have the 1015vs for fellow turners or a spare and find it to do thejob, but not as easily as the 1221vs    I  turned  on similar ly equipped Rion and Hf,   and  prefer the  1221 for a lathe within your stated budget     many reallylike their Rikons, Deltas, Novas,  and HFS but I havery limited experience  with them


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## leehljp (Nov 24, 2016)

You mentioned that you DO NOT like or want to be changing belts. Watch it, some of those mentioned above do not take that into consideration.

I hate belt changing too! Some Electronic Variable Speeds advertise a wide range of speeds, but even though they are EVS, that full range includes three or more step pulleys to change speeds. 

WATCH out for that. 

Harbor Freight has the 34706 which has what is called a Reeves drive that gives continuously variable speeds, but it has stops in the levers. You don't change belts but you change the speed by changing adjusting the lever on the drive. That lathe is $319 currently but with a 20% coupon, can be had for about $256 or so plus tax.
Wood Lathe w/ Reversible Head - 12'' x 33-3/8''

Grizzly has a more powerful one (and heavier) with the Reeves drive here
Wood Lathe With Digital Readout | Grizzly Industrial

Currently on sale for $495 plus $99 shipping. It is considerably heavier and far more powerful motor. It also has a LED tach.

Once you get into EVS, they jump up above $1000. There are some EVS ones cheaper but watch out for the belt swapping to be needed to be a part of the speed range.


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## monophoto (Nov 24, 2016)

There are three numbers in the specification for a lathe that are pretty important - swing, bed length, and horsepower.  Swing refers to the maximum diameter piece you can turn and is the dimension between the spindle and the bed of the lathe.  However, you have to be careful in interpreting this number because of two factors.  One is that you will often need to move the banjo under the piece, and to do that will consume an inch or more of the specified swing.  The other factor is that blanks rarely start out round; if you have a lathe with an 8" swing, and you want to turn a piece that is 8" in diameter, you will start with a square piece of wood with an 8" cross section - that that simply won't work!  (Think round peg in a square hole.)

The bed length refers to the maximum length of the piece you can turn, but again you have to be careful in interpreting the specification.  If you are using a chuck to hold the blank, it will consume 3" or more of the available bed length.

Finally - horsepower.  And again, be careful - there is an industry standard way to specify the horsepower rating of motors, but you can't be sure that the lathe manufacturer is following that standard.  There is a reason that manufacturers of lawnmowers and other power equipment are no longer allowed to use horsepower ratings to describe their products - horsepower is easily manipulated to make the product seem 'better' than it really is.

If you are only interested in spindle turning (pens, handles, etc), you won't need a lot of swing, and you won't need a lot of horsepower.  Bed length can be important, but there are clever ways to address that constraint.  You typically will need more speed range, or perhaps more correctly, you will find yourself wanting to turn at higher speeds when you are working on something with a small diameter.

However, if you later move into face grain turning (platters, bowls, etc), you will need swing (to accommodate the larger diameter), and you will need horsepower.  When you try to turn the outer diameter of a face grain turning with an underpowered lathe, you are constantly fighting the tendency to stall the motor.

The other area where horsepower is important is in drilling.  Drilling small diameter holes on a light lathe may not be too difficult, but attempting to drill a larger diameter hole, especially in end-grain using a forstner bit, can stall an underpowered lathe.

I started out with a 6x10 mini-lathe with a nominal 1/3 horsepower motor.  That was fine for pens and handles, but when I tried to move up into larger items, I realized that it was just too small.   So I moved up to a 12x18 midi-lathe with a 1 horsepower motor.  Much better; there are still imitations, but I can't fit anything larger into my shop.

My lathe has electronic speed control, but it also has two speed ranges selected by the choice of pulleys.  It only takes a few seconds to switch pulleys, but to be honest, in the three years I've owned the lathe, I don't think I've changed pulleys more than a couple of times.

Others have pointed out that mini-lathes usually have 3/4X16 spindles with an MT1 taper.  That was the case with my starter lathe, and when I upgraded to a midi, it came with a 1x8 spindle and MT2.  I was able to find accessories for the mini, and I was also able to manage the transition to the midi without having to scrap most of the accessories I had purchase for the smaller lathe, but it is very true that if there is any possibility of upgrading in the future, that transition will be much simpler if you start out with a 1x8 spindle and MT2.


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## e094228 (Nov 25, 2016)

Just left Rockler. Played with the Excelsior mini, Nova Comet II and Jet 1221vs. For me, it felt like jet was miles ahead on quality  and looks. I like that the Nova came with a G3 chuck and I def want one. Here are my options. 

-stand alone Jet 1221vs (1hp) No chucks, with HF tools. $679 + cheap HF tools.

-Jet 1015vs (1/2) with G3 chuck and decent tools. $725.

-Jet1015 with no VS and save $85

only turning shave brush handles. Nothing more.


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## leehljp (Nov 25, 2016)

In your original post, you said you did not want to have to change belts.

the 1221 has three pulleys with the speed range for each as:
1. 60-900 RPM
2. 110-1800 RPM
3. 220-3600 RPM

The 1015VS has 3 pulleys also, with the speed ranges of:
1. 200-1050, 
2. 300-1750,
3. 600-3600,

Some people see "VS" or "EVS" and do not realize that there are still "steps" in some brands and models. Delta introduced a lathe a few years ago and listed it as "Continuously Variable". But that was over the speed range of 4 or 5 sets of pulleys.


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## Charlie_W (Nov 25, 2016)

e094228 said:


> Just left Rockler. Played with the Excelsior mini, Nova Comet II and Jet 1221vs. For me, it felt like jet was miles ahead on quality  and looks. I like that the Nova came with a G3 chuck and I def want one. Here are my options.
> 
> -stand alone Jet 1221vs (1hp) No chucks, with HF tools. $679 + cheap HF tools.
> 
> ...



Glad you were able to see those lathes in person and settle on what you like.( I agree with your decision to go Jet)
Yes to either the Jet 1221 vs or the 1015 vs.

I am sure I am going to ruffle some feathers but would rather put it out there as you are asking for our opinion here.......BUY quality tools to go with your quality lathe. Would you put cheap tires on a Ferrari?....no way!
Don't go cheap on your tools. You don't need high end either. Middle of the road should be fine.
If need be, you could pick up the chuck in the future.

Good luck!


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## e094228 (Nov 25, 2016)

I hear ya. Just trying be reasonable with this, as ive never turned before. The $180 more Id be paying for the 1hp vs the 1/2hp could go toward tools accessories. Spending $500, whats another $180 for the 1hp. I dont know, maybe i dont even need 1hp, but if I do, its cheaper to do it now. Can buy better tools later I suppose


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## JimB (Nov 25, 2016)

The decision is really up to you at this point. All the lathes you list are capable of making what you want. The 1221 will be better if you get into other (larger) things in the future. I know you say you will only make shave brush handles but I have never met a Turner, in person or on here, that only makes one thing. Eventually they want to try other things.

Don't forget you will need other things as well such as some type of sharpening system, dust collection, kits for the brushes, glue, sandpaper, polish etc. The lathe and tools are only the start.


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## RobS (Nov 25, 2016)

It's easy to save up to buy tools as you need them. However in the need you can not upgrade your lathe without buying a whole new lathe. The 1221 has been awesome, I thought I'd only make pens, now I'm adding on bottle stoppers, handles, vases and eventually brushes. I love silver tip badger so I have expensive taste so it will be an expensive brush when I make it. 

Good luck.


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## wyone (Nov 25, 2016)

something else I was taught to always consider was resale value.  What if you decide you hate turning?  I have yet to purchase one, but think the Jet 1221VS will be the easiest to sell if you ever decide to.  I have been looking high and low for a used one and they just do not come up, either because they are purchased by people who love turning so much, or they sell fast


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