# Turner with a bad back, solutions?



## BigRob777 (Apr 7, 2010)

I'm back at it again, trying to figure out how to turn, without hurting my back. I can do about 15 minutes and then my back is done for the day. I tried a stool, but it feels akward and I end up standing to turn, or sand. 

My idea is to create a steady tilted table, like a drafting table, but with lots of stability. I also thought of bracing my chest on a preacher-curl type bench, so I'm not holding up my bulk all of the time that I'm turning, but haven't really put enough time into that idea.

Weight loss would help too, but it's taken me two years to go from 415 pounds, down to 360. I do work out, but that only helps a little. The solution, at least for now, will have to be an ergonomic one (work station design). 

Any ideas will be greatly appreciated. Oh yeah, if it helps, I was 6'5" tall, before my back operation. I'm still pretty close to that. I can build a stand, but I turn on an old desk, with either a Jet mini, or my Grizzly full sized lathe. I prefer the mini, for pens, of course. I have afree-standing tool rest (for outboard bowl turning), that I thought of using for a chest-rest. Here's a pre-weight loss pic, for those of you left who remember me.

Many thanks,
Rob

I think I was down to 402 here:


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## snowman56 (Apr 7, 2010)

Rob
Check out the oneway site they have a tilting or swiveling lathe you might get some idea's there.


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## chrisk (Apr 7, 2010)

Rob,
About 10 years ago, I remember an advertisement for a lathe build specifically for disabled turners in the UK review "Woodturning". A Google search returned this:
http://www.ableworkshop.com/nicholslathe.htm


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## barkisini (Apr 7, 2010)

Rob,

Keep your eye out for a used drafting table from a school...I scored one for $50 on Craig's List and it is built like a brick outhouse...the tilting half of the top would certainly support a mini lathe.


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## JerrySambrook (Apr 7, 2010)

Is you lathe set up correctly for you, or are you bending over to turn?

Also, proper footwear, and padding beneath the feet help with the lower back greatly. Especially if you are on a cement floor.

I learned to turn on a shopsmith, so I learned to turn in a bent position. (No comments here Neil , Charlie, or Alton)
After working on a friends oneway a few times that was higher, I noticed the lower back was just fine. I bought my own, and have steadily raised it over the last couple of years to where it is real comfortable all the time.

Jerry


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## mick (Apr 7, 2010)

Hey Rob! Great to see you back, we've missed you!
I've found that a lot of my back and neck pain comes from bending over my lathe. like Jerry said have you thought about raising the lathe height? I was turning on an old desk also and my lower back as always hurting....couple of years ago I built a lathe stand from plans in Wood magazine and it was a vast improvement! Seems you could change the dimensions and adjust for our height difference.
I've tried a stool while turning and it just doesn't cut it. Jerry also mentioned padding on the floor. I've got my entire shop covered in those interlocking mats you can get at Lowes or HF PLUS at my bench, lathe and saws I've got one of the nice big green mats WoodCraft sells. Padding really helps me!


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## BigRob777 (Apr 7, 2010)

Thanks all,
I never thought that standing to turn would work better for me, but you're right Mike and Jerry, I do bend over to turn. I also have a cheap drafting table, but the mechanism wouldn't be hard to duplicate. In fact, I have some exterior door hinges that would work just great. I need to get rid of the desk and build a stand. I wonder if I could put my big lathe up on blocks. I can't stand for long, but I can also build a stool to fit the raised lathes, so that I can break up the standing and sitting times, possibly quadrupling my lathe-time.

I do plan to do most of my lathe work on the big Grizzly (table legs), but pens will always be in my repertiore (had to look that word up :redface.  

I studied ergonomics in college 25 years ago, but I'm sure I forgot most of what I learned.  You guys have been most helpful.
Thanks,
Rob


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## Crayman (Apr 7, 2010)

Rob, I agree will Jerry. I am also 6'5" and started with a shopsmith and could not turn for more than an hour with out pain to low. I got a Jet Mini and was looking for a stand and had my chop saw stand, put the Jet on it and it was the perfect height. This may not work for the vertical challenge,:biggrin: but I love it. I have added anti fatigue mats can all night if SWMBO allows me in the garage.


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## BigRob777 (Apr 7, 2010)

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that I have the mats, but haven't applied them yet.
Thanks,
Rob


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## broitblat (Apr 7, 2010)

Rob,

I hope some of these ideas work for you.  Have you tried any of the simpler back support belts, etc.?

  -Barry


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## knifecut (Apr 7, 2010)

BigRob777 said:


> I wonder if I could put my big lathe up on blocks.



Or 4 hydraulic jacks?


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## Dan Henry (Apr 7, 2010)

On the Hunt County Woodturners web sit there are pictures and complete plans to make a sit down lathe using a mini lathe. See http://www.huntcountywoodturners.org/Default.aspx

the Lathe can be rotated to an upright position or used in an intermittent position or rotated  with the lathe  so the head stock is horizontal, it really works!!
The only hard pard part is having  the tool rest support assembly made but the rest is a straight forward woodworking project.

Dan


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## BigRob777 (Apr 8, 2010)

Hi Barry, it's been a while.  Belts don't work.  I have to hold up my upper body, which is quite heavy and my back just gives out.

Dan, wow, what an awesome project.  I never thought of doing it that way.  That will solve half of my problem and I think that a Rob-rest, in front of the tool rest will do the rest.  I just finished reading it and realized that you were one of the two guys who tackled the hardest part.  I have a machinist friend accross the street, who also has an incredible shop on the premesis.  I can take my tool rest problem to him for a solution.  I may have to make him a couple of nice pens though, but that's the easy part.  Any suggestions on how to start?  Thank you so much.

Mike, I'm not sure the jacks would be sturdy enough and would be a lot more expensive than blocks, but thanks for the idea.  I love out-of-the-box thinking.

Rob


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## DurocShark (Apr 17, 2010)

I have harrington rods in my back. Here are a couple things I do:

Saddle stool: I just have one made by 2x6's and 2x4's with some foam stuck on top. It's angled so I'm mostly just bracing against it. 

Padding on the floor: Makes a huge difference! Standing (even with the stool) for more than 15 minutes at a time will tire my lower back to the point where I just want to lie down.

Lathe height: I have most of my tools higher than typical so there's less hunching. But the lathe I keep it right where recommended. If your eyesight is good, you need no changes to the "elbow-height" lathe. 

Light: You need LOTS and LOTS of light to keep you from leaning over to get a look at what you're doing. Amazing what a difference lighting the work can make!


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## hunter-27 (Apr 17, 2010)

BigRob777 said:


> Hi Barry, it's been a while. Belts don't work. I have to hold up my upper body, which is quite heavy and my back just gives out.
> 
> Dan, wow, what an awesome project. I never thought of doing it that way. That will solve half of my problem and I think that a Rob-rest, in front of the tool rest will do the rest. I just finished reading it and realized that you were one of the two guys who tackled the hardest part. I have a machinist friend accross the street, who also has an incredible shop on the premesis. I can take my tool rest problem to him for a solution. I may have to make him a couple of nice pens though, but that's the easy part. Any suggestions on how to start? Thank you so much.
> 
> ...


 I think that you will find standing properly to a properly placed lathe will eliminate some(not all, you have already established the weight issue as the root) of the problems you associate with the process.  Good luck, keep diving on.


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## BigRob777 (Apr 17, 2010)

Thanks Don and Landon,
The weight is secondary.  I broke my back 28 years ago and ruptured 3 discs 13 years ago.  Those injuries are primary, which is why I have trouble standing for any length of time.  I also have poor circulation in my legs, so standing is just not a possibility.  Losing weight will help, but there is damage that can't be undone, shy of a miracle.

Don, I do have bad eyesight, which is one reason I hunch over, but better lighting will help.  I might just buy a pair of glasses, with the focal point set at 12".  I plan to put down the foam mats that I bought, once I get the floor cleared off.  I'm also not familiar with a saddle stool and how you brace yourself against it.  It sounds intriguing.

I thought I had heard enough info to get this done, but this new info shows me otherwise.  Thanks for your input.  I wonder if Costco makes safety glasses...

Semper fi,
Rob


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## DurocShark (Apr 17, 2010)

I got the idea from a stool I saw using a bicycle seat. It was angled with the nose down and was amazingly comfortable. Looked kinda like this: 

http://www.thesalonstore.com/Mercha...&Product_Code=B429&Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TSS

With it angled, you're not actually sitting on it. But it takes half the weight off your legs while letting you easily get up and move when needed. I just did something similar from wood scraps. Get it so your knees are just slightly bent when you're "sitting" on it.


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## seawolf (Apr 17, 2010)

Check out some of the larger office supply stores the make a chair for disabled people that has a padded bar across the front and padded ankle supports to the rear. When you set in them it looks like your riding a racing motor cycle. The work great for peopl with cronic bad backs.
Mark


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## DurocShark (Apr 17, 2010)

With my rods, those never worked for me. But everybody's different. Give them a go! Here's what they look like:

http://www.officechairstation.com/I...1-oc13013-10&gclid=CMHx6-LPjqECFR5ciAodMgnFRg


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## Mac (Apr 17, 2010)

One of the AAW clubs that I am in, has a jet 12 20 that a  wheelchair will slid in between the legs, something like that might work for you. I don't know if it is a special base or not. It will adjust up and down for sitting or standing.


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## Rfturner (Apr 22, 2010)

My back bothers me, I used to have my lathe height so I had to hunch over. I could only make a pen or two at a time, now I changed to a higher table (a laundry folding table that has two drawers) it is about elbow height that really helped mky back.


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## BigRob777 (Apr 23, 2010)

The ideas keep coming in and getting better and better.  The one that sparked an idea was the kneeling chair.  I was thinking that I could use one of them and build a preacher curl prop, to lean on, then I thought....why not just turn a chair around and bulk up the back, so I can lean on that.  I could build it the perfect height and thickness, with maybe a stand for my elbows.  I could cushion the seat, so that I lean forward somewhat too.  I have a couple of really sturdy wood chairs from the nearby University that would be perfect.  I could even whittle the lumbar area down, since it will have to go between my legs.

Either that, or I could just build the preacher curl bench, to attach to the work bench and sit in the chair normally.  I enjoy designing furniture.  It's one of my favorite past times.  I'll make sure that I post any pics, after the garden is finished, and my next pen blank special is cut up, of course.  I decided to get back into it again.  This economic crunch is hurting us and I get to keep in touch with old friends and new penturner customers.  I might even put up a price list from time to time.

Thanks again all.....it's good to be back.
Rob


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## Jim15 (Apr 23, 2010)

Welcome back Rob.


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## BigRob777 (Apr 23, 2010)

Thanks Jim,
Now if I can figure out how to reset my home page to my new price list, I'll be a happy camper. I also have to refigure out how to post links to pics, so that they don't crowd my price list. Ahh, got the signature changed to thread 61200. Now to play with some pics.

Nope, can't figure it out, nor how to do an attachment.
Rob


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## BigRob777 (Apr 23, 2010)

Doh!!!  It showed up afterall.


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## Turnedwritepens (Apr 23, 2010)

Hi Rob.
   Due to bone cancer my lower back vertebrae is completely shattered, and I have lost nearly four inches in height. If attempting to stand and turn I can manage around ten to fifteen minutes at tops.
   As such, my Occupational Therapist visited me in my workshop and watched what i was doing for a while. Afterwards she recommended that I have a basic wheechair to seat myself in and lower my work bench to a height suitable for seated turning.
   The wheelchair I received free of charge from hospital, and my wife lowered my bench within a half hour. The end result is that I can now turn for 3 -4 hours without feeling any pain or discomfort whatsoever. It took a little time adjusting my turning method to become competent whilst seated, but has been worth every minute taken.
   I'm not saying this is necessarily the right track for you to go down, but my build is very similar to yours, excluding the height. It could, however, be worth your while just thinking about it if nothing else appears to really ease your problem.
   I wish you well.

   Stuart - Turnedwritepens


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## BigRob777 (Apr 23, 2010)

Stuart,
That's awesome.  I would love to be able to turn for that long.  I can't even sit that long, but it will give me more turning time, if I design my bench with sitting in mind.  I have an old desk, that we bought for five bucks and it never fit me.  I'm just going to rip the top off and use that for my new bench (I hate to waste good wood).  Then again, it's probably not solid wood, so I might just scrap the whole thing and start from scratch.
I'm so glad you found a good remedy.  It's encouraging.
Rob


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## pensmyth (Apr 24, 2010)

Check out this site 
look at the VL200 sit down lathe

www.vicmarc.com


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## Glenn McCullough (Apr 24, 2010)

I have back problems, too, but they dont keep me from turning. Digging and kneeling are the movements that put me down for a day or two. I find that if my stomach muscles are tight, my back is good, so I do situps...a couple hundred a day.
Oh, by the way, can we get a closer look at you natural looking cane?


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## BigRob777 (Apr 24, 2010)

Glenn,
I quit doing stomach exercises, once I got a 6" rip in my gut. It came from doing crunches after having lap band surgery. 

I got my cane from a shop at the beach in Delaware. It was one of those places that make sure that the artisans get decent pay. I can't recall if it was from Africa, or South America and as much as I hate to admit it, I don't know what the wood is. It looks like some really good Bolivian Rosewood, but I'm extremely allergic to that. I love the way the sapwood is used to accentuate the belly and the curve of the cobra's body. Here are a couple of pics for you. 

Click on these thumbnails:
 

I'm on my way to the gym, after a rough week of recovery (still worked out lightly on Wednesday though), from way overdoing it on Monday (hoed my garden for 1-1/2 hours then worked out at the gym).

Rob


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## jfoh (Apr 24, 2010)

Take a look at the chairs that dental assistants use. They have a bar which comes around the front area. You could rest your left arm on the bar and take a lot of weight off your back. It also has a ring that allows them to pick one or both legs off the floor. Nothing that does not allow you a range of positions will be comfortable for long.  They swivel, will adjust up and down and the arm in front will swing out of the way to make it easy to get up and down. Swiveling should limit the amount of stretching you have to do. Up or down will give you a level that you can work at with out reaching.

Call your local dentist and see if he has an old chair you can borrow and try. Failing that contact the local dental supply salesman for Schein or Patterson and have them look for a old used chair to try. Most dentist save one or two extra chairs when they update to newer chairs and never use them. Offer them a pen in trade if it works.  They are not really designed for your weight but should be fine of light duty. I have seen a few assistants almost you size but not your height.  The dentist version does not have the wrap around arm. Some have two arms which can be set at different heights. Support of your arms will take some of the strain off your back.


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## themartaman (Apr 25, 2010)

I also have a bad back. 10 minutes and I had to stop to straighten up. Lathe spindle height should be elbow high or higher. Made a big difference for me.


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## aplpickr (Apr 25, 2010)

*Lathe support*

I am 6'7", 375# and I am missing half of left foot. My full sized Grizzly factory legs are WAY too short. I cut a 6" x 6"-8' pressured treated into four pieces. Cut half mortices into each piece for a 2" x 6". Stacked the 6" x 6" with long bolts. Use the 2 x 6 to tie the stacks together. This "H" is laid down on its side with lathe bolted on top. Then used scrap plywood to get another inch. The 13 inches got the lathe to a non-bend over height. Adds enough weight to dampen vibs. Still going strong after 6 years. This is totally strong, weight can't compress or break solid 6 by.


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## tim self (Jun 3, 2010)

Dan Henry said:


> On the Hunt County Woodturners web sit there are pictures and complete plans to make a sit down lathe using a mini lathe. See http://www.huntcountywoodturners.org/Default.aspx
> 
> the Lathe can be rotated to an upright position or used in an intermittent position or rotated  with the lathe  so the head stock is horizontal, it really works!!
> The only hard hard part is having  the tool rest support assembly made but the rest is a straight forward woodworking project.
> ...



I saw a version of this in Dallas last year with a Jet.  It was AWESOME!  have considered making one if my basement was larger.


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## BigRob777 (Jun 3, 2010)

Tim,
Oorah!!! I'm assuming by your avatar, that you're either a Marine, or a former Marine. I'm the latter of the two. I've decided to go with a modified version of that set-up, but with no added tool rest. I only need to tilt my lathe 45 degrees, or less, so I'll just have to learn to turn from an angle. It shouldn't be too hard. I'm tall, so the dimensions will need to be tweaked, to fit my long arms. I'll build it, so that I can rest my elbows on the non-rotating part of the bench. That's the modification. I want to make the whole thing much sturdier, and heavier, to reduce vibration. I'll also build a stool, with a chest support, to relieve my back of the strain of holding myself up. I may make a bladder for the support, so that I can adjust it, as I lose weight.

Semper Fi,
Rob


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