# table saw



## aggromere

I want to start making some segmented blanks but i do not have a saw that can cut straight (just have a cheap bandsaw for cutting blanks to length).

I used to build models and I was looking at this table saw;

http://www.byrnesmodelmachines.com/tablesaw.html?id_mm=0419MM105146

Has anyone ever used one or what do you think.  It's got a hefty price tag, but I really would only use it for pen making.  I dont do anything any bigger.


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## jttheclockman

I personally think you should look at a table top full 10" blade saw. If you have the room that is the way I would go. Look at either the Dewalt or the Ridgid.


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## Fred

The unit you are looking at will wear itself out in short order if you use it to cut much hardwood. It simply does not have the ability to withstand cutting woods outside of thin stock ... such as model ship planking, balsa wood, etc. 

Don't buy this for segmented work. Instead either improve your bandsaw or get a regular woodworking saw.


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## Billman

It looks like a pretty nice unit... As you noted a little spendy though.

The only issue I could see it the 15/16 inch limit on thickness.  I would personally like the option to be able to use material bigger than that.


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## USAFVET98

I will chime in as well. I have a 10" Crapsman contractor table saw and for most of the small projects like pens and stuff, I got a Ryobi 10". It's pretty powerfull, small, comes with stand, and reasonably priced ($114.00). If you are going to get one, I would go with a 10" model because for the money, you will be mad when you want to cut something bigger. Check out HD and Lowes. The only problem I do have with the table top models is, they are very light, so it jumps back a little when you turn it on (wont happen if screwed down). Heres the link.
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs...langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100058430


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## aggromere

*jet saw*

I was looking through Home Depot on line for a ridgid or dewalt table saw and fount this.

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs...3&productId=100399037&N=10000003+90401+500744

It's a little cheaper than the others but I really like my jet lathe worked great right out of the box.

Would this be a good saw for cutting blanks and making segmented blanks.

Thanks


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## VisExp

I'm not familair with the Jet you showed. I have the Ridgid 10" table saw. 

http://tinyurl.com/chkgcg

I've been very happy with it. If you keep your eye open in the store you can sometimes get a good deal on them. They are coming out with a new model and getting rid of the older models at a very good price.

If you're looking at starting to make segmented blanks don't rule out getting a scroll saw. I make most of my blanks on one of these http://tinyurl.com/chlkwn


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## rb765

$450 bucks for less than an inch capacity?  I would hold out for better.  I just saw a Jet contractors saw on Craigslist in my area for $175 with a Freud dado blade thrown in.  I would jump on it myself, but I just bought the same Rigid as aggromere and have been very happy with it.  I picked it up on craigslist from a house flipper that bought it just before the market crashed.  It still had the original blade installed with all the writing still legible on the blade.  He said he only used it 4 times and I believe him.  I have heard people rave about the Ryobi BT3000's that have a built in miter table that I believe is in the same price range new.


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## Wild Turkey

For $450 I would look at a Rigid.  I have one used it for years, powerful accurate, safe, solid, what else can I say.  That saw you are looking at is small, won't last and can handle 1 inch material, get something bigger if you have any room at all.


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## Randy_

Here is one more opinion for the junk heap.:biggrin:
 
If you are going to use the saw for nothing more than your pencrafting, it should be more than satisfactory.  Do be aware that it is nothing more than a bench top unit mounted on legs.  Note that the complete unit only weighs 42 lbs. and has a direct drive blade which is typical of benchtop units. 
 
If you are a home handyman and would like to use the saw for projects around the house.....bookcases, dog houses, planter boxes and the like, you will probably be happier with something like the JET.  That $500 Rigid saw looks like a nice one; but is probably overkill unless you want to get into some more serious woodworking or just have money to burn.


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## jackrichington

Just to throw a clunker in here...some people use a mitre saw...if you have one, you can rig up a way to hold the blanks...other option: do you have a mitre box?  that could be used too...your bandsaw could be used and use a mitre gauge on your sander...I've made 800 piece segmented bowls with a mitre box...so it is possible to do stuff "another way"


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## randyrls

Added to the tip:

If you have limited space, check out a job site table saw with a folding stand.  These are intended to be taken to a job site and set up there.  They have wheels and the stand folds so you just wheel it over in the corner and stand it up like a moving dolly.

Hope this helps...

Added Later:  I found this on the Home Depot Web Site: 
 							 								 									 									 										 											Ryobi 										 										10 In. Table Saw W/ Transp Stand 									 								 							
 							 								Model BTS21 								 																 								 																 							
 							 	          				 				 					 					 				 				 				 				 				 				 				 					 								 									 									 										$249.00/EA Each 											 											 	   												 												 												 												 												 												 												 											     	 	 		 	 	 		 	 	 	 		 	 	 	 		 		 			 		 	        	 										




 							 								 									 									 										 											RIDGID 										 										10 In. Heavy Duty Portable Table Saw with Stand 									 								 							
 							 								Model TS2410LS 								 																 								 																 							
 							 	          				 				 					 					 				 				 				 				 				 				 				 					 								 									 									 										$449.00/EA Each 											 											 	   												 												 												 												 												 												 												 											     	 	 		 	 	 		 	 	 	 		 	 	 	 		 		 			 		 	        	 										



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JGWKAwqQE8

http://www.toolking.com/dewalt_DW744XRS.aspx


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## Rodger Bagwell

I have an 8" craftsman table saw that i have had for about 18 yrs and it still does a good job for me....But next one will be a 10" saw min.  This saw has served me well so I wont talk bad about this craftsman product but other equipment......I refuse to comment about it now.


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## Russianwolf

1) check craigslist and see what's available used locally and ask questions here if you find something interesting.

2) The BT3xxx mention in an earlier post is gone. Ryobi no longer makes it, but the Sears version (model 21829) is still in stores but they recently raised the price. It's a damn fine saw though that is very accurate and repeatable once you know how to use it correctly. The thing that confuses many people with it is it doesn't have built in miter slots on the table. Trust me, you don't need them to make great miters with it. I own a BT3100 myself and will retire it only when I am ready to buy a $3000+ European style saw.


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## bitshird

I would avoid a light weight table saw like the plague, they are responsible for more injurys in a workshop than all other tool combined DAMHIKT.., the only tool that causes more injuries are chain saws, but they aren't a workshop tool. a heavy saw with a good supporting structure is far safer than the light weight bench models with legs attached.
It took about 50 years, but I finally got bit by a table saw, my old Delta that weighed close to 300 pounds wouldn't have let it happen a POC delta what weighs about 70 or 80 pounds tend to walk and move unexpectedly when you get a kick back,


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## KenV

The Byrnes Saw is a rolls royce of precision for wood less than an inch thick.  You can do no better without going to high precision metal gear.   It will cut veneer you can read through and with the micrometer precision adjustment will provide consistent cuts every time.   Construction saws have multiple times the runout -- and are a compromise solution for cheap, durable, and building construction design choices into a precision environment.   They will not give precision fits that a UniSaw or similar will provide at much higher cost and space requirements.  The smaller the pieces and tighter the fit needed, the less and less suitable a construction saw will be.  that Byrnes saw will beat a Unisaw hands down for control and consistency and the Unisaw (and similar) beats construction saws hands down for precision.  

I have been lusting for a Byrnes saw since I saw a well used one in use doing repeated precision cuts in tough hardwoods.   Just had other items ahead of it in the list.


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## rwyoung

As long as you are looking around, how about this:
http://www.bridgecitytools.com/Products/What's+New/Jointmaker+Pro

Even more expensive than the Byrnes!  But probably quieter.


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## juteck

If you opt for a 10" saw, a trick my father told me about is to use a good 8" blade instead of a 10" blade when you're cutting segments (he's a segment turner, but not a pen turner) -- with a good quality blade, you'll get less vibration from the smaller blade, and less chatter on your cuts.


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## rherrell

I have the saw AND the disc sander and would't trade them for anything! I do have a regular table saw for the larger stuff but this little saw will cut anything you throw at it and with PRECISION. I got the micrometer fence adjuster with it and can dial in the fence .001" at a time.
When I first got it I practiced making segmented blanks using 7/8" Curly Maple and Bloodwood and I had NO problems cutting right through it. The motor is powerful and it is built like a tank.
Here are some photos of how I set it up.......



I made a little box so I could connect both machines to my dust collection system with a quick connect.





This shows the micrometer for the fence.






Since the blade doesn't tilt I made this 45 degree jig. I can clamp a stop to it so I can get the repetitive cuts needed when making segmented blanks.












Here are some of the results I got. The two on the left are Curly Maple and Cocobolo with dyed wood veneer. The other one is all Tru-Stone with homebrew PR for the black. 
I had no problems at all cutting the Tru-Stone.
I would recommend this saw in a heartbeat for small precision work like pen blanks. It is a joy to use.


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## jdmyers4

I'm actually thinking about getting that Byrnes table saw because I've gotten interested in trying my hand at model ship building.  I suspect it would be nice for making small wooden boxes too, and I think it would be handy for making segmented pens.  It's suppose to be a high quality machine, as you would expect from the price.


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## BruceK

I'll echo what KenV and rherrell said.  I have the Byrnes too and it is a QUALITY built saw.  I haven't gotten into segmenting but will attest to its power.  I've used it for trustone, corian, etc and it has no problems.  I cut all my blanks to size on it.  It's quick and handy.  You can actually cut thicker than 15/16 inch if your really need to by just flipping the piece over.  It's so accurate you can't tell you did it that way.  

I originally got it for model shipbuilding and milling my own planking and timbering.  The byrnes saw and a thickness sander and you are set for making any size modeling lumber you need.


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## leehljp

Another vote for Ken and Rick's advice. Bare in mind that it does NOT replace a large table saw for what they do. But you will have finer tolerances and more consistent cuts with the Byrnes. If you are proficient with a larger TS, you can do most of the same things with a jig and the larger saw, but the problem of changing jigs are re-aligning that goes on between large work on the TS and then small work drives me up the wall. 

I have a very accurate TS that gives glass smooth cuts, but it is no match for the precision that I get from my home made "byrnes" :wink:  for the way it works so well on a smaller scale. I can adjust cuts to .1mm with no problem and don't have to worry about re-aligning jigs and fences like I would if I had to go back and forth on the larger TS.

The down side as already mentioned is that it is not intended to cut 2x4s or 2x2 or 3x3 down to size. But for squaring a 1 inch blank and smaller or segmenting - it is great. Another GREAT benefit is the thin kerf blades that are available which don't eat up as much wood. 

Advise: prepare your mind for experimenting with jigs. Wonderful things happen with jigs and the right tool! :biggrin:


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## jdmyers4

Rick - what do you use the Byrnes disc sander for in your pen making tasks?  I read about it in some reviews and it is suppose to be very precise, just like the TS.


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## cdbakkum

I have a bench top saw, DeWalt 10 inch. I use it the way you want to and it does a nice job. It has been very reliable. I see you live in Phoenix, I live in Mesa and if you would like to try it, come by. PM me if you so desire and I will give you my address. Carl


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## rherrell

jdmyers4 said:


> Rick - what do you use the Byrnes disc sander for in your pen making tasks? I read about it in some reviews and it is suppose to be very precise, just like the TS.


 
John,
When I make segmented blanks I sometimes cut off part of the blank and glue on a different kind of wood. The pieces I glue back on after cutting are oversized so they need to be trimmed. I knock off the majority with the table saw and fine tune it with the disc sander. It is ABSOLUTELY a MUST that you keep the blank perfectly square and symmetrical so the following cuts you make will line up.  The disc sander is the perfect tool for this.:wink:


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## bitshird

Rick I like your dust collection box, but how do you work in a shop that's so clean, aren't you afraid to get it messy?


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## rherrell

That's the whole idea of the dust collection box Ken, to KEEP the shop clean. The trick is to clean your shop REAL good ONE time and then just tidy up EVERY time you're done for the day. I learned that a LOOOOOONG time ago from my father and it's just stuck with me. 
Funny ain't it, how the older you become the smarter your parents get!!!:biggrin::wink:


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## jdmyers4

> Funny ain't it, how the older you become the smarter your parents get!!!



Now if only someone would tell my teen-age kids that!

Rick - BTW, beautiful pens!  I'm going to give that style a try when I get my Byrnes TS and DS.


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## r-ice

i know this is an older topic but do any Canadians have any of these machines?


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## WildcatHollow

I'm thinking about ordering the Rigid 10" table saw from Home Depot. I'm going to use it to make some jewelry from some of my left over acrylic blanks. I had a question about blades. In your opinion, which would make cuts in acrylic that would require less sanding: a 90 tooth wood finishing blade or a diamond blade (normally used for tile and porcelain)? Thank you.


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## BigguyZ

I think the diamond blade would lease one heck of a rough surface.  It's more an abrasive blade than a cutting blade...


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## Geophyrd

*Hi Rick*



rherrell said:


> Here are some of the results I got. The two on the left are Curly Maple and Cocobolo with dyed wood veneer. The other one is all Tru-Stone with homebrew PR for the black.
> I had no problems at all cutting the Tru-Stone.
> I would recommend this saw in a heartbeat for small precision work like pen blanks. It is a joy to use.




Any chance you could post pictures of what the pen blanks above turned out to look like?  They're beautiful!


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## jdmyers4

Rick,

I'm going to attempt to create the segmented pens you showed - with the scalloped ends.  Gorgeous pens, BTW.  My only question is - do you use a glue-up jig of some sort?  I was thinking of putting something together with UHMW pieces and toggle clamps.  Man, I hate using CA glue!  No matter how careful I am, it still gets on my fingers/gloves.  (Of course, that's probably true of any glue I use!)


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## Displaced Canadian

Whatever saw you buy remember to buy a good quality blade. Buy a quality saw and put a $15 blade on it and it will cut about as smooth as a chainsaw.


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## ctubbs

*Saw blades*



Displaced Canadian said:


> Whatever saw you buy remember to buy a good quality blade. Buy a quality saw and put a $15 blade on it and it will cut about as smooth as a chainsaw.



A cheap blade on a $2000 saw will saw just like a cheap saw.  A high dollar blade on a cheap saw will saw better.  It is a complete waste of money to cheap out on a blade when you spend good money on a quality saw.:redface:  DAMHIKT.  OK, I still have the damn shirt and the cheap blade.  It hangs on the wall of shame to remind me!
Me with the cheap blade.  :biggrin:arty:Me with my new blade.
Charles


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## Smitty37

*Use driven*

If you are looking for a pen saw....you got about as good as they come in mind. You will not wear it out quickly, it ain't a dollar dummy it's a hell-of-a tool. Tough and well machined built to last.
If you want to make exotic hardwood furniture it probably isn't the right tool. 

I personally would not like working pen size wood on my 10 table saw which with frued or Forrest blades is a pretty good beast...but it is that, a beast, meant to rip 8 foot 2 x 4's into 2 x 2 's . I isn't meant for cutting a strip off of a 3/4 X 3/4 X 6" piece of hardwood.


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## Hess

I have a 10 inch ridged (sp)  I like the lifetime warranty even the motor bushes are covered.  I look it it like this if I have the room  get the bigger workhouse  today it may be pens next month a Cedar chest


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## GBusardo

Hi,  I haven't posted in eons, but I still follow you guys around. Someone had mentioned the Dewalt 10 table top saw and possibly you could try it out. This is a real good saw for a table top.  You can get one here
http://www.cpopowertools.com/dewalt...efault,pd.html?start=2&cgid=dewalt-table-saws

I had to chime in because I cannot imagine spending over 400 bucks with out at least building a bird house with it    You also can build a ton of jigs, like Hank mentioned,  to help things along.  By the way, someone else had mentioned upgrading the blade,  great advice. 
Good luck with whatever your choice is


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## Chris Bar

Check out used table saws.  You can get them at a fraction of what they are really worth, if you buy a good brand.  Some guys want to trade up to biggger and nicer saws in woodworking, so might want to look at the forum on woodworking (i.e. sawmill creek.org) for leads, and now is a good time.


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## rherrell

jdmyers4 said:


> Rick,
> 
> I'm going to attempt to create the segmented pens you showed - with the scalloped ends. Gorgeous pens, BTW. My only question is - do you use a glue-up jig of some sort? I was thinking of putting something together with UHMW pieces and toggle clamps. Man, I hate using CA glue! No matter how careful I am, it still gets on my fingers/gloves. (Of course, that's probably true of any glue I use!)


 
No jigs, here's a few photos......


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## rherrell




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## rherrell

Geophyrd said:


> rherrell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here are some of the results I got. The two on the left are Curly Maple and Cocobolo with dyed wood veneer. The other one is all Tru-Stone with homebrew PR for the black.
> I had no problems at all cutting the Tru-Stone.
> I would recommend this saw in a heartbeat for small precision work like pen blanks. It is a joy to use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any chance you could post pictures of what the pen blanks above turned out to look like? They're beautiful!
Click to expand...

 
Sorry, I didn't take any photos of the finished pens but they looked just about the same.:biggrin::wink:


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## jdmyers4

Great Pictures!  Thanks Rick.  Looks like I'll need to make myself a jig for the table saw to cut those 45's.


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