# Close end / custom / kitless is it worth?



## ALexG (Jul 27, 2012)

This is a question I was asking myself when I read your posts, first let me add that I never went beyond the kit pens, and I understand the challenge these ones might bring to your own skills. But from the selling point of view, are they worth the extra effort?, I'm assuming that they should be sold for more money and some collectors might appreciate them. Can anyone bring me some thoughts, I like to start trying them, just for the challenge but not sure from the selling point of view.

cheers


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## Ruby pen turning (Jul 27, 2012)

I dont make them and probably never will. I like the looks of a kit pen better and the creativity for me is segmenting. If and where you would sell them is what would determine if the extra effort is worth it. I could never sell a kitless pen in my area, most here buy bullets. I would think you would need to be doing higher end shows where people have more money to spend and like the more vintage looking pens.

Just what I think, not necessarily so.


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## ed4copies (Jul 27, 2012)

One of the best "pen salesmen" I know is Gerry Wilhite (Chasper).

He has posted previously on this question and, my paraphrasing of MY reading of HIS post:  Gerry MAKES some "kitless", but they don't sell, next to his "kit" pens.

Hopefully Gerry will speak for himself on this thread, but he may not see it or may figure he has already addressed that question--

FWIW,

Ed


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## OKLAHOMAN (Jul 27, 2012)

Custom (Kitless) pens just won't sell at your average craft show or for that matter even high end Art Shows. At these venues they want BLING especially at the high end art shows. I tried for a year to sell three very nicely made Custom (Kitless) pens at high end art shows and never even got close to a sale. First thing  I would do when a customer would say " these are so pretty but way to heavy" I would bring out the "Custom" pen and say "Now here are 3 pens that meet your requirements as to weight". Their comeback would be "so plain looking"  and I would end up selling them a component pen most of the time. 
I haven't done any pen shows but from what I'm hearing that would be the venue for Custom (Kit Less) pens. 
I will be at the Dallas Pen show in September to get a feel of these type venues and might fly out to San Francisco in Oct. to their pen show.


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## glycerine (Jul 27, 2012)

Take a look at "Edison Pen Company".  They certainly DO sell if you know where and who to market them to.  The biggest thing is time vs. money.  That's where CNC equipment comes into play...


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## ed4copies (Jul 27, 2012)

glycerine said:


> Take a look at "Edison Pen Company".  They certainly DO sell if you know where and who to market them to.  The biggest thing is time vs. money.  That's where CNC equipment comes into play...




I would say the biggest thing that makes "kitless" work for Edison is Brian Gray (the owner).  He does "pen shows" and has advertised his brand for many years.

So, yes, if you want to make a career out of it, you CAN sell "completely custom" pens.  Well, Brian can, which does NOT mean "anyone" can.

FWIW


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## glycerine (Jul 27, 2012)

ed4copies said:


> glycerine said:
> 
> 
> > Take a look at "Edison Pen Company". They certainly DO sell if you know where and who to market them to. The biggest thing is time vs. money. That's where CNC equipment comes into play...
> ...


 
Doesn't mean that "anyone" CAN'T either.  Heck, there's no guarantee that "anyone" can even sell "kit" pens.  There's no reason that Alejandro shouldn't try it.  As I said, the biggest thing is time vs. money.  Seems that Alejandro knows this already since he asked "are they worth the extra effort?"  There IS extra effort in making a "kitless" pen and there ARE guys who sell them.
Alejandro, I would suggest finding some of the guys who sell them and talk to them directly...


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## mrcook4570 (Jul 27, 2012)

Depends on the venue.  Pen 'snobs' tend to turn their noses up at component pens.  They are more interested in the nib and how the pen writes.  This group generally prefers custom pens.

The average art or craft show attendee may not even know what a nib is, but they sure like things that are bright and shiny.  This group generally prefers component pens.


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## azamiryou (Jul 28, 2012)

Also bear in mind - it's possible for a pen that doesn't sell to increase sales of other pens. Even if someone decides for budget or style reasons to buy a pen with commercial parts, they may appreciate that they are buying from someone capable of making a nice pen "from scratch".


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## Robert111 (Jul 28, 2012)

OKLAHOMAN said:


> Custom (Kitless) pens just won't sell at your average craft show or for that matter even high end Art Shows. At these venues they want BLING especially at the high end art shows. I tried for a year to sell three very nicely made Custom (Kitless) pens at high end art shows and never even got close to a sale. First thing  I would do when a customer would say " these are so pretty but way to heavy" I would bring out the "Custom" pen and say "Now here are 3 pens that meet your requirements as to weight". Their comeback would be "so plain looking"  and I would end up selling them a component pen most of the time.
> *I haven't done any pen shows but from what I'm hearing that would be the venue for Custom (Kit Less) pens.
> I will be at the Dallas Pen show in September to get a feel of these type venues and might fly out to San Francisco in Oct. to their pen show.*



I definitely think so Roy. The people who buy custom FPs are collectors who love FPs and appreciate their writing qualities. Making the custom pen is only half the job; you have to know the FP entirely--especially the nibs and filling systems. You have to use a FP and appreciate it, like your customer. And you have to be familiar with the brand name FPs and their writing qualities. You have to be able to tune a nib and recognize its strong and weak points. All this and much more. That's why its different craft and a different business entirely from the tubed pens.


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## watch_art (Jul 28, 2012)

I've only turned one kit, a deluxe sketch pencil, so all of my experience really is with custom pens.

So from my point of view, from the selling aspect of it, yes they're worth the effort.  Mine go from $125 - $200 each and the oversize 16mm thick pens seem to be really popular.  

Is it worth the time involved?  To me yes it is.  I may only spend 3-4 hours on a pen start to finish.  Maybe less now - I dunno.  But I enjoy the whole process so I don't really keep track.  I know a section takes about 30-40 minutes start to finish, give or take a few minutes.

Is it worth it from an economics point of view?  With only about $25 or so in parts, from nib to converter, blanks to clip, yeah, definitely.
Now bear in mind, I'm not trying to make a living at this.  I'm a high school art teacher, so my bread is bought with that, but this is excellent extra money - going to be paying for the little one's daycare the next two years with this money.
Also bear in mind that I'm not making that much on each pen since I'm making twins of each pen to give to students - so my investment per order is double what I just mentioned.  Now if a customer orders celluloid or wood or micarta, I'm going to make the student pen out of acrylics.  No need to go all out and spend all that extra time or money for give away pens.

I've never been to a craft fair so have no clue about that, but the two pen shows I've been to these are the types of pens that will sell.  Kit style pens don't move at all from what I've seen.  Be they $40 or $400.

Do I sell very many pens?  I sell a few - enough for me to keep busy.  My queue is down pretty low right now, and as soon as I get one or two pens left to go before I'm out of orders, I get 3 or 4 more, so I definitely keep busy.  I've never sold at a show either, I just have my website and word of mouth (and FPN).

I wouldn't call FP users 'snobs' though.  They're a very friendly bunch of people for the most part - they are usually very knowledgeable about their pens and what they want.  But you're going to find snobs in any group - hopefully you won't let them color your perception of the group as a whole.


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## jj9ball (Jul 28, 2012)

Heres a fun one.  I just finished a kitless pen that I had been working on off and on for the past 3 weeks.  I also just listed that pen on ebay for $.99... to see what it will bring.   If anyone wants to follow along here is the listing.
APPLE BERRY ACRYLIC CUSTOM FOUNTAIN PEN HANDMADE | eBay

I know this seems like a dumb move, but I have been pondering the "is it worth it question" for a little while now and this is the only thing I can think of that might give me an idea.


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## watch_art (Jul 28, 2012)

Selling a pen like this on ebay isn't exactly the best move in my opinion - how will people find it?  When pen collectors are looking for pens on ebay, they look for the name.  If nobody knows about you or your name then nobody is going to find it and you'll be lucky if it gets any attention or bids.  

Not trying to sound negative, or like a downer, just thinking logistically.  I would never put one of my pens on ebay unless there was some sort of advertising first and a REASON to put it on ebay.  I think half the fun of customs for people is getting to pick out the materials and talking to the maker about what they want and how big or this and that and the other, waiting for it to be made, anticipation and all that, and then finally getting it in the mail.

I hope that makes sense...


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## OKLAHOMAN (Jul 28, 2012)

Bad move, flea Bay has been notorious for very low prices on non name pens. I will be very surprised if you get much over if even the cost of the blank for it on e bay. That venue is just not where you'll find out the value of your pen, you need to show it to fountain pen people and that is where the kicker comes in as to where. After you've built up a name by going to pen shows or joining a Fountain pen forum such as FPN as Shawn has then you'll get the value of your work. 





jj9ball said:


> Heres a fun one. I just finished a kitless pen that I had been working on off and on for the past 3 weeks. I also just listed that pen on ebay for $.99... to see what it will bring. If anyone wants to follow along here is the listing.
> APPLE BERRY ACRYLIC CUSTOM FOUNTAIN PEN HANDMADE | eBay
> 
> I know this seems like a dumb move, but I have been pondering the "is it worth it question" for a little while now and this is the only thing I can think of that might give me an idea.


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## KnB Polymers (Jul 28, 2012)

jj9ball said:


> Heres a fun one.  I just finished a kitless pen that I had been working on off and on for the past 3 weeks.  I also just listed that pen on ebay for $.99... to see what it will bring.   If anyone wants to follow along here is the listing.
> APPLE BERRY ACRYLIC CUSTOM FOUNTAIN PEN HANDMADE | eBay
> 
> I know this seems like a dumb move, but I have been pondering the "is it worth it question" for a little while now and this is the only thing I can think of that might give me an idea.





LOL! It's already up to $26 and you still have 6 days left ... you go boy! :highfive:


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