# What is high end



## Smitty37

I see a lot of discussion about "high-end" component sets.  Tell me, just what price level is high end?  Do you all think in the same terms when you say high end....I'm asking about kit prices not finished product.


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## OKLAHOMAN

Jr.'s, and their full size versions,Majestic Jr and full size,Lotus,Emperor and Imperial.


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## PenMan1

OKLAHOMAN said:


> Jr.'s, and their full size versions,Majestic Jr and full size,Lotus,Emperor and Imperial.


 
Ditto. I include Triton, bucause they currently outsell my Jr's.


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## Smitty37

*Not looking for names*



OKLAHOMAN said:


> Jr.'s, and their full size versions,Majestic Jr and full size,Lotus,Emperor and Imperial.


 What I'm looking for is the price levels $$$ not models or names...most of them don't mean anything to me because I have no idea of their price.


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## nativewooder

I think it depends on your perspective and your wallet!  You guys who are professional and run a business are very different from old fa#%s like me who live off Social Security and have to watch every penny.  Plus this is a hobby that I do for the fun of it.  If I should sell any pens at the few shows our club participates in, the proceeds will go to the club.  I will only recover my cost so I can do it again.  But be advised that very little has sold for the last three years despite the availability of many wealthy people.  That includes pens, bowls, museum pieces, vases, boxes, jewelry, and everything else.


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## PenMan1

YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR........IF YOU ARE LUCKY!


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## OKLAHOMAN

From low to high $18 for Jr Gent  to $64 for Gold/Rhodium Imperial F/P, my biggest seller is the Jr. Statesman accourding to plating and rollerbal or F/p $26.50-$38.50
so you can see there's a large spread of what some call high end.


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## alphageek

Smitty .. for me $25 for the kit or higher is what really seems to be the edge of "high end".   I start getting to that point, then it really means premium blank too, and need to be sure its unique to deserve $$$ sales.


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## hunter-27

High end to me has nothing to do with the cost but rather with proven quality.


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## DCBluesman

Ball park $15 for ballpoints, $20 for roller balls/fountain pens. Then there's the exclusive end. Roller balls and fountains at $30+.


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## ed4copies

You fool yourself if you (all yous, not you-Smitty) believe that dollars dictate quality.

The recent statement that one kit from WoodCraft and Berea HAVE to be the same because their price is the same betrays a level of naivete that amazed me in this group.

Pen kits are priced by the distributors based on what they think they can GET for the kit.  They evaluate where their kit "fits into" the market and stick a pricetag on it.

Then, if they can BS you into believing it's the same as another kit that uses a higher quality plating----AHA!!! they just improved their MARGIN!!!  

Now, enter a new variable.  The "time-honored" vendors are changing their suppliers.  I believe this is an effort to reduce cost of components (you are welcome to disagree, if you choose).  I'm sure they HOPE to maintain their quality---of both operation of the components and durability of the components.  BUT no one KNOWS if these new "manufacturers" will be any good or not.

So, buying kits is a crapshoot.

Berea seems to stand alone in maintaining their stream of supply---they are continuing to have their kits made by the same manufacturing lines in Taiwan--their "partners".  This means they will have a tighter control over quality, and their prices will probably go up.

What you don't seem to consider is the "semi-fixed cost" of transportation.  When you ship a product half way around the world, it adds dollars to each pound of freight, not pennies.  Additionally, the dollar is currently very weak on the international market and unlikely to get much better, any time soon---so there will be cost increases based on exchange rates---another cost completely uncontrollable and completely separate from the quality of the components you purchase.

So, if you try to equate price with quality, make sure you figure FOB point of origin, in local currency---THEN your question makes SOME sense.


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## OKLAHOMAN

Ed,  Leroy asked for pricing of what we consider high end, not quality (although I'd put the quality of the mentioned pens as good as any). I've sold a little over 1,000 pens and most CSUSA pens and have had less than a handfull that gave any problems most were customer related ie:fountain pen won't write, had the cap pulled off by a frind etc. Have had the threading issue and CSUSA took care of them no questions asked. 
Now I'll wait to see if the Jr.'s change but so far they haven't....so far


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## ed4copies

Roy,
I don't mean to demean anyone, least of all CSUSA.  I have used their kits for years and have been VERY SATISFIED.  I believe their customer service is unparalleled.

However, as the financial companies say, "Historical results are not meant as future guarantees".

As they change their supply source, they take a risk.  YOU may want to take that risk with them and certainly you can.  But you should get a lower cost, because they will be getting a lower cost---I doubt you will.

NO insult to CSUSA or any other supplier--again, that's MARGIN---A GOOD THING!!!!


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## DCBluesman

What a bravo sierra post, Ed. I've made a few pens and I know what high end is. High end for $1.65? Heck no. High end for $4-5? Heck no. I've seen the rubbish that all of the distributors offer as a $6-10 fountain pen. Now if you ask what are the most durable or finest made or closest to spec or finest materials, then perhaps you have a leg to stand on. But I think more than a few of us know that high end kits cost more than $5-10 per fountain pen.


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## ed4copies

I believe you are mixing apples and oranges, Lou.

I know of no sierra fountain.  And, I don't BELIEVE I have alluded to any single style of pen--if so it was NOT my purpose.

Far as I know, both fountain pens and ballpoints all have to be transported to the USA.  Fountain pens weigh a little more--again the freight haulers don't care WHAT it is, it's just dollars per pound of weight.

And, you certainly know the Dollar is weak, as I stated.


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## jttheclockman

I read the question abit different too because we had this topic on what is quality and we all saw where that went.

I make the distiction in price of kits but also kits themselves. I do not call slimlines a highend kit and all the dirrivitives of this kit such as the apprentce and so forth. Yes adding better plating makes it more expensive but still is a run of the mill kit. 

You get into the Elegant beauties and Sierra line is where I start calling these midrange kits.

I get into the kits with the more bling the high end kits. Kits that start costing $23 and up are highend in my book.


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## ed4copies

DCBluesman said:


> What a bravo sierra post, Ed. I've made a few pens and I know what high end is. High end for $1.65? Heck no. High end for $4-5? Heck no. I've seen the rubbish that all of the distributors offer as a $6-10 fountain pen. Now if you ask what are the most durable or finest made or closest to spec or finest materials, then perhaps you have a leg to stand on. But I think more than a few of us know that high end kits cost more than $5-10 per fountain pen.



Quote inserted, just to maintain continuity should later editing occur.


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## DCBluesman

Perhaps you should re-read the question. It dealt with the price mark for high end kits. As for the Sierra, it's not in my definition of high-end. And cost* was not part of the question.


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## jttheclockman

Smitty37 said:


> I see a lot of discussion about "high-end" component sets. Tell me, just what price level is high end? Do you all think in the same terms when you say high end....I'm asking about kit prices not finished product.


 

Cost was the question. OOPs maybe a symantics thing going on here.


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## ed4copies

Based on the premise that high end is strictly dictated by high price, every successful forgery would be high end.

So, I differ with the premise.


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## Craftdiggity

Smitty,

For me, high end starts in the $20 - $25 range.


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## greenmtnguy

I agree with Chris. $20-$25 is my break point. The more shows I do, the higher the bar climbs. Nothing worse than talking to a customer and noticing a defect in the hardware, or demonstrating a pen and having something not operate correctly. That first impression is awfully important when you are selling an impulse item.


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## Andrew Arndts

Wow Ed, with all that in mind I might as well get back on stage...   

To me a High End kit and a High Price Kit is not the same.  A lot of what I see are High Priced kits are mostly the pretty ornate Fountain pens.  A High End kit, has to be one that doesn't dent the wallet above $10 maybe $20. Goes together smooth and tight. 
All in all, perhaps what makes a High End is the final completed pen with the artisan's style.

Now if I may say this. Lets take the Civil War Pen from PSI.  That particular pen kit in all reality is for a narrow market of those that are either Civil War buff's, Reenactor's and Historians.  So in my mind it is a High End kit. Yes it goes against what I have stated above. however I feel it still qualifies.  Now again a pen kit that has a narrow market is the Teachers pen.  Though it is a unique it's design is too simple to be High end.  perhaps highly prized by Teachers. maybe an old school CPA who still uses paper worksheets.

I guess what is boils down to is the bling.


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## maxwell_smart007

What apple is tasty?  
Which shade of blue is best?  
What car has pep? 
What pen kit is high end...

These are all questions with various answers depending on your own perspectives and what constitutes 'apple-ness' or 'blue-ness'

More important questions are: which pen kits are the most durable?
which pen kits have the least inherent defects?
Which pen kits look best with which blanks?  

I think the craftsmanship of the finished product, the durability of the finish and the durability of the hardware, and the overall quality of the pen makes it high end, rather than the cost of the hardware used to assemble the pen.  A fifty dollar kit furnished with a Mesquiteman patented Cat Poo pen blank is a wasted fifty dollar pen kit! 

By the same token, a chrome streamline can be made to look elegant as well.  But for me, high-end pens are those that take a rollerball refill - ballpoint pens aren't 'different' enough from regular pens to demand high prices...


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## Russianwolf

I don't think price defines "High-end". To me "high-end" is defined by sophistication.

Take Cigar kits. Most wouldn't consider them in and of themselves high end. but then you have the Ultra-cigars and people may start changing their tunes. I myself don't like the ultra even. But when I put together a Two-Tone Cigar from WoodPenPro, it just looks stylish and sophisticated. Something that stands out from the other cigars. 

Now Cigar kits start at $4-$5 and go to about $10
The Ultras are $12 or so, and the new Cubano (the only other one I consider High-end) can be $14
The Two-tones I get for $6.75 before any discounts.

So to me, price doesn't mean squat when it comes to high-end. It's all about looks.


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## lazyguy

Russianwolf said:


> I don't think price defines "High-end". To me "high-end" is defined by sophistication.
> 
> Take Cigar kits. Most wouldn't consider them in and of themselves high end. but then you have the Ultra-cigars and people may start changing their tunes. I myself don't like the ultra even. But when I put together a Two-Tone Cigar from WoodPenPro, it just looks stylish and sophisticated. Something that stands out from the other cigars.
> 
> Now Cigar kits start at $4-$5 and go to about $10
> The Ultras are $12 or so, and the new Cubano (the only other one I consider High-end) can be $14
> The Two-tones I get for $6.75 before any discounts.
> 
> So to me, price doesn't mean squat when it comes to high-end. It's all about looks.


 

Well said


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## alphageek

Russianwolf said:


> I don't think price defines "High-end". To me "high-end" is defined by sophistication.
> 
> Take Cigar kits. Most wouldn't consider them in and of themselves high end. but then you have the Ultra-cigars and people may start changing their tunes. I myself don't like the ultra even. But when I put together a Two-Tone Cigar from WoodPenPro, it just looks stylish and sophisticated. Something that stands out from the other cigars.
> 
> Now Cigar kits start at $4-$5 and go to about $10
> The Ultras are $12 or so, and the new Cubano (the only other one I consider High-end) can be $14
> The Two-tones I get for $6.75 before any discounts.
> 
> So to me, price doesn't mean squat when it comes to high-end. It's all about looks.



Thats interesting Mike.    On one hand I agree with you on many aspects of this... I love some of the new cigars out there... And I agree that its all about looks... 

Were I differ is that I have a hard time marketing something on any cigar as high end.  For me one of the requirements for high end is that I can put a top refill (rollerball) in it or its a FP.  That being said, the two tone (BT/platinum) cigar is really classy for what it is.

In regards to the OP's question about $$, the way I looked at was the reverse... Which kits do I look at and see as high end from a looks perspective and then see how much do they cost.

That being said.. my answer was still a "ballpark" and given my recent pen making, is more grey for me than ever.   The range of kits seems to be growing and thus the middle ground is filling out too.   The Triton kit is an example of that as its priced lower than similar looking products...


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## Smitty37

*Maybe*



maxwell_smart007 said:


> What apple is tasty?
> Which shade of blue is best?
> What car has pep?
> What pen kit is high end...
> 
> These are all questions with various answers depending on your own perspectives and what constitutes 'apple-ness' or 'blue-ness'
> 
> More important questions are: which pen kits are the most durable?
> which pen kits have the least inherent defects?
> Which pen kits look best with which blanks?
> 
> I think the craftsmanship of the finished product, the durability of the finish and the durability of the hardware, and the overall quality of the pen makes it high end, rather than the cost of the hardware used to assemble the pen. A fifty dollar kit furnished with a Mesquiteman patented Cat Poo pen blank is a wasted fifty dollar pen kit!
> 
> By the same token, a chrome streamline can be made to look elegant as well. But for me, high-end pens are those that take a rollerball refill - ballpoint pens aren't 'different' enough from regular pens to demand high prices...


 
  But they are not the question I asked.  Assume that the asker is looking for the answer to the question he asked...All of those questions have been discussed.  I see many discussions talking about high end kits and I wondered what price range people are thinking of,  I am not asking about quality, or durability or anything else...PSI offers "High End Starter Packages" that include $6.75 Gatsby kits so obviously they think high end starts pretty low.  That is the what I thought was a rather simple question I asked the members...what price do you think of when you think high end.  Not what your taste in pen kits is, not what what vendors you prefer, not who you think makes the highest quality kits.  If you don't have a price in mind when you say high end components then the answer is "I don't consider price when determining high-end"


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## maxwell_smart007

Smitty37 said:


> maxwell_smart007 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *But they are not the question I asked.  Assume that the asker is looking for the answer to the question he asked.*..All of those questions have been discussed.  I see many discussions talking about high end kits and I wondered what price range people are thinking of,  I am not asking about quality, or durability or anything else...PSI offers "High End Starter Packages" that include $6.75 Gatsby kits so obviously they think high end starts pretty low.  That is the what I thought was a rather simple question I asked the members...what price do you think of when you think high end.  Not what your taste in pen kits is, not what what vendors you prefer, not who you think makes the highest quality kits.  If you don't have a price in mind when you say high end components then the answer is "I don't consider price when determining high-end"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree, Smitty - and I'll explain why.
> 
> So you know, I did read your post and all the responses to it - and thought about it for a while before responding.  My post was just a reflection of the idea that asking 'what price makes a pen elegant or high-end' is a question that cannot be answered definitively without referring to the quality of a kit, or one's personal preference for looks and style.
> 
> There is so much involved in what makes a pen high end...many, many factors - but price is not one of them.  I think that price has absolutely nothing to do with the equation, but rather one's personal preferences dictate the essence of high end 'pen-ness', and showing that was the intent in my post.
> 
> Is high-end the same as high quality?  I think that it is.  Is high quality dictated by price.  No, it's not.
Click to expand...


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## Smitty37

*never the less*



ed4copies said:


> Based on the premise that high end is strictly dictated by high price, every successful forgery would be high end.
> 
> So, I differ with the premise.


 
Then your answer would be that you don't associate kit price with "high end".....That would be an answer to the question asked.


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## Smitty37

*That's OK.*



OKLAHOMAN said:


> From low to high $18 for Jr Gent to $64 for Gold/Rhodium Imperial F/P, my biggest seller is the Jr. Statesman accourding to plating and rollerbal or F/p $26.50-$38.50
> so you can see there's a large spread of what some call high end.


I expected a big range but what I was interested in is what the range is.  I know that no one considers 3 dollar slimlines or comforts high end, even if they are plated in Black TN.


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## lazyguy

Smitty, with your clarification in mind I think that generally kits that break the 18 dollar make are what I would consider the start of “high end” for me. Much of the conversation has been tangential to you original post because I think people have such a large variety of points that determine high end. For me it comes down to my scale of production. So when I spend 50-75 bucks on an order I want to get the most bangs for the buck while getting the styles I want. With that in mind the better plating in the RB & FP kits are in the “really high end” column. While the lesser plating’s of the same kit general are on the mid range side. Just like that jewelry store ad so many years ago about the “3 C’s.” I consider high end based on for pens “Classy, Comfort and Cost” ratio. So I would say most kits that are 20ish or above are “high end” generally.


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## ed4copies

Smitty37 said:


> ed4copies said:
> 
> 
> 
> Based on the premise that high end is strictly dictated by high price, every successful forgery would be high end.
> 
> So, I differ with the premise.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then your answer would be that you don't associate kit price with "high end".....That would be an answer to the question asked.
Click to expand...


No, Smitty, I typed MY answer, if you want to ask and answer the question yourself, just note that and I will stay out of the thread.

Otherwise, you seek my "Input"--which I gave you (and everyone else reading).


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## wolftat

I have Gold Ti. slimlines that have a price tag of $200 on them, is that high end? The blank used and the finished product make a big difference in the end results. I sell some slimlines at the same or higher prices then the Jr. Gents and Jr. Statesman. The only thing I have found in selling a pen is that they are only worth what someone else is willing to pay for them.


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## Smitty37

*No*



wolftat said:


> I have Gold Ti. slimlines that have a price tag of $200 on them, is that high end? The blank used and the finished product make a big difference in the end results. I sell some slimlines at the same or higher prices then the Jr. Gents and Jr. Statesman. The only thing I have found in selling a pen is that they are only worth what someone else is willing to pay for them.


 
But I didn't ask about the price of high end pens.  Certainly I agree with what you say that it takes more than a kit to make a great pen and as near as I can tell high end on finished pens is whatever you'd like it to be.  $100/$300/$500/$1500 and I suppose even higher.


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## Smitty37

*Hmmmm*



maxwell_smart007 said:


> Smitty37 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> maxwell_smart007 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *But they are not the question I asked. Assume that the asker is looking for the answer to the question he asked.*..All of those questions have been discussed. I see many discussions talking about high end kits and I wondered what price range people are thinking of, I am not asking about quality, or durability or anything else...PSI offers "High End Starter Packages" that include $6.75 Gatsby kits so obviously they think high end starts pretty low. That is the what I thought was a rather simple question I asked the members...what price do you think of when you think high end. Not what your taste in pen kits is, not what what vendors you prefer, not who you think makes the highest quality kits. If you don't have a price in mind when you say high end components then the answer is "I don't consider price when determining high-end"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree, Smitty - and I'll explain why.
> 
> So you know, I did read your post and all the responses to it - and thought about it for a while before responding. My post was just a reflection of the idea that asking 'what price makes a pen elegant or high-end' is a question that cannot be answered definitively without referring to the quality of a kit, or one's personal preference for looks and style.
> 
> There is so much involved in what makes a pen high end...many, many factors - but price is not one of them. I think that price has absolutely nothing to do with the equation, but rather one's personal preferences dictate the essence of high end 'pen-ness', and showing that was the intent in my post.
> 
> Is high-end the same as high quality? I think that it is. Is high quality dictated by price. No, it's not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I didn't ask "what price makes a pen elegant or High-end"  I asked about pen kit.
> You realize you are telling me that I don't know what I asked? If you do not associate a price range in what you consider to be high end, then that is the answer. A couple of posts said that.
> 
> I'm not looking for what people think is high quality, or great durability, or will produce the "best selling" pen.
Click to expand...


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## Phunky_2003

Smitty,

I've yet to answer any of your posts, due to the backlash each poster recieves.  I'll give this a go.  I think this post has alot of useful information if you would read it and put all the posts together with what your being told.

Problem with this post is there needs to be more clarification.  For example ( I am using each person as an example )  I am no way trying to point out certain individuals.  

What I consider high end is 15.00 due to that is the price which I can afford to put money in until it sells or I give away.  Now others like Roy (Oklahoman) or Ed (Ed4copies) their price may be 25.00, they can buy in bulk which lowers the price more.  The difference being the position we are in.  I still consider myself fairly new and consider it a hobby while others do it for business.  There is too broad of a spectrum for answers to your question.  While you are looking for a simple answer...... the simple answer is the price of a high end kit is what YOU think it is.  Each and every individual will have different answers.


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## Phunky_2003

And you can also have some members tell you a high end kit is a slim line transmission.


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## ldb2000

Phunky_2003 said:


> And you can also have some members tell you a high end kit is a slim line transmission.


 
NO !!! Cigar transmission is the high end kit , slimline is entry level :biggrin:


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## maxwell_smart007

Smitty37 said:


> maxwell_smart007 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Smitty37 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> maxwell_smart007 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *But they are not the question I asked. Assume that the asker is looking for the answer to the question he asked.*..All of those questions have been discussed. I see many discussions talking about high end kits and I wondered what price range people are thinking of, I am not asking about quality, or durability or anything else...PSI offers "High End Starter Packages" that include $6.75 Gatsby kits so obviously they think high end starts pretty low. That is the what I thought was a rather simple question I asked the members...what price do you think of when you think high end. Not what your taste in pen kits is, not what what vendors you prefer, not who you think makes the highest quality kits. If you don't have a price in mind when you say high end components then the answer is "I don't consider price when determining high-end"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree, Smitty - and I'll explain why.
> 
> So you know, I did read your post and all the responses to it - and thought about it for a while before responding. My post was just a reflection of the idea that asking 'what price makes a pen elegant or high-end' is a question that cannot be answered definitively without referring to the quality of a kit, or one's personal preference for looks and style.
> 
> There is so much involved in what makes a pen high end...many, many factors - but price is not one of them. I think that price has absolutely nothing to do with the equation, but rather one's personal preferences dictate the essence of high end 'pen-ness', and showing that was the intent in my post.
> 
> Is high-end the same as high quality? I think that it is. Is high quality dictated by price. No, it's not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *I didn't ask "what price makes a pen elegant or High-end"  I asked about pen kit.
> You realize you are telling me that I don't know what I asked? *If you do not associate a price range in what you consider to be high end, then that is the answer. A couple of posts said that.
> 
> I'm not looking for what people think is high quality, or great durability, or will produce the "best selling" pen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm rather fond of being spoken to like an adult, Smitty.  I've been polite to you, so please return the favour.
> 
> Since you don't seem to like the way I answer, I'll refrain from trying to help further in this thread; but please don't put words into my mouth.
> 
> Best of luck with your endeavour!
Click to expand...


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## Parson

I think "high end" is $20 or more for a pen kit.


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## Phunky_2003

ldb2000 said:


> Phunky_2003 said:
> 
> 
> 
> And you can also have some members tell you a high end kit is a slim line transmission.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NO !!! Cigar transmission is the high end kit , slimline is entry level :biggrin:
Click to expand...

 
I was actually thinking about you when I said that!  Thanks for the clarification.  LOL:tongue:


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## jttheclockman

I am curious if there are those that call slimlines highend kits then what do they call the Majestics and the $40 and $45 kits. Probably "outrageous" We have to come up with a name for them:biggrin:


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## Russianwolf

jttheclockman said:


> I am curious if there are those that call slimlines highend kits then what do they call the Majestics and the $40 and $45 kits. Probably "outrageous" We have to come up with a name for them:biggrin:



There's the root of another problem.

You can have high-end ballpoints that cost more than low-end fountains. There is a low-end and high-end in each kit available (usually based on plating/quality). Then there are the low-end group of kits (ballpoints) and the high-end group of kits (fountains/rollerballs).

Generally, I would call the High-end of low-end kits the better platings (Ti, platinum and chrome) of ballpoints, while the low-end of high-end kits would be the 24k gold fountains for example.

That's why I used the Cigar in my original post. It's not usually considered a high-end kit for the most part, but can be one of the high-end ballpoints depending on platings. 

I like to think that I only offer high-end kit pens. I only make the two-tone cigar, Aero/EB, and long click now in Ballpoint and only use the better platings in my RB/Fountains and they are usually the Jr. series which have had good quality.


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## Smitty37

*fine*



Phunky_2003 said:


> Smitty,
> 
> I've yet to answer any of your posts, due to the backlash each poster recieves. I'll give this a go. I think this post has alot of useful information if you would read it and put all the posts together with what your being told.
> 
> Problem with this post is there needs to be more clarification. For example ( I am using each person as an example ) I am no way trying to point out certain individuals.
> 
> What I consider high end is 15.00 due to that is the price which I can afford to put money in until it sells or I give away. Now others like Roy (Oklahoman) or Ed (Ed4copies) their price may be 25.00, they can buy in bulk which lowers the price more. The difference being the position we are in. I still consider myself fairly new and consider it a hobby while others do it for business. There is too broad of a spectrum for answers to your question. While you are looking for a simple answer...... the simple answer is the price of a high end kit is what YOU think it is. Each and every individual will have different answers.


 
If you read the original question I was asking what each and every individual considered it to be....nothing more.  

I don't know how to make that any clearer than it is in the original post.  

This was not a test.  There is no right price and there is no wrong price.

If for you the answer is $15.00 than that is your answer.  If for someone else is is $50 then that is his/her answer

I did not ask anyone to justify or explaiin their answer.  Just what price kit they considered high end.  If they use chriteria other than price to make that determination they could say that.  Several folks did and that is perfectly ok it still answers the question.

I certailnly wasn't asking for a debate on the relative merits of manufacturers or the relative quality of different platings and while that might be useful information it has been and will be frequently discussed in these forums.

If pointing out to someone that they did not address the question I started the forum by asking is lashing out then I'm guilty.


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## DurocShark

I don't know what I would consider "high-end". A $19 El Grande can be high end to me. 

When I sell a pen, I classify "premium pens" as rollerball or fountain pen. Everything else is a ballpoint. 

So no, I don't think price has anything to do with it for me.


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## DurocShark

That said... I wish I could afford to stock up on $60 kits.


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## Smitty37

*ME too*



DurocShark said:


> That said... I wish I could afford to stock up on $60 kits.


 Well even though I don't sell them I wish you could afford to stock up on $60 kits too.


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## bloodhound

Hello all. 

I have read all of this and dont want to start up a brawl.  I asked in another post about what everyone was calling high end. It seems that was a bad question. So i guess what my problem is when i sell a pen to someone. I feel good about the finish on the turned portion. But i worry about the finish of the pen kit. I have one i bought from woodcraft. it was a copper finish. i use it daily and the finish has warn off. I cant have that. 

So, Who Do You Guys/Girls Suggest I Get My Kits From?

I have been getting them from PSI. No issues that i am aware of to date. but all have been 7mm kits. And its time to step it up a bit.


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## maxwell_smart007

bloodhound said:


> Hello all.
> 
> I have read all of this and dont want to start up a brawl.  I asked in another post about what everyone was calling high end. It seems that was a bad question. So i guess what my problem is when i sell a pen to someone. I feel good about the finish on the turned portion. But i worry about the finish of the pen kit. I have one i bought from woodcraft. it was a copper finish. i use it daily and the finish has warn off. I cant have that.
> 
> So, Who Do You Guys/Girls Suggest I Get My Kits From?
> 
> I have been getting them from PSI. No issues that i am aware of to date. but all have been 7mm kits. And its time to step it up a bit.



This thread is over four years old...


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## skiprat

So what if this thread is over 4 years old??? It is obvious that Bloodhound used the search function to find the topic. If he asked the question in a new thread then he would likely have been told to use the search function.  Jeesh, give the new guy a break......


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## Robert Sherlock

As many have said, there are so many variables and opinions out there...

I think it would be safe to say that a Jr. Gent II / Statesman would be considered 'high end' and with either the rhodium / titanium finish, would be a pen that would last a very long time.  I order from Exotic Blanks or from Craft Supplies.  The pen components run between $15 (for the Jr. Gent II) to $35 for the high end Jr. Statesman.

Robert


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## Fish30114

I think a true high end pen kit will be north of $30. I honestly can't find any pen kits that I feel are of high enough quality to justify prices like--let's say Cross pens get--which are mfg in China BTW, so I know it's possible that 
'they' can produce a Cross caliber mechanism, we just aren't being shown or offered that to my knowledge. I suppose if a real quality mfg offered a diverse line of pens--like Lazerlines may be able to do, they would sell all the brought to market pretty quickly. I suppose also that a Cross caliber mechanism/kit would be priced around $20-$30....

Just my .02


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## Holz Mechaniker

When the price for the hardware starts flirting beyond $20 that is when I will say that is the beginning of the high end exclusive kits.


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## bloodhound

Ok. Thanks for the info everyone. I don't want to beat a 4 year old dead horse. So I will take this info and move on. There are plenty of things in this site. I'm sure I can go kick another tomb stone somewhere else.  Thanks again for your time.  

 And thanks skiprat.


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## Smitty37

This is a good thread for you to read....Learn something from it.  There are a lot of different opinions here and also.  The answers you get will often not be to the question you ask.  I have said in the past "Ask an IAP member what time it is and you likely to be instructed on how to build a wrist watch"


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## bloodhound

Lol I am catching on to that. Thanks smitty  there is a LOT of stuff in the site. Which may be part of the problem. Most threads I will be in will be old. So if I ask a question then I am restarting a dead thread   Which seems to be a no no. So I will keep the question asking to a minimum.


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## wwneko

Restart dead threads if it brings up a question that doesn't have the answer, other's may be interested in the topic.  There are a lot of us that haven't been here for 4 years, so we may have missed a real gem.  The forum is meant for learning and sharing the craft, ask away, please.


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## Cmiles1985

As I sit here not feeling so well, and with a light fever, I have found this to be an excellent read.

In answer to the OP, I'd consider high end to have a sliding scale dependent on the type of pen. I consider a high end ballpoint kit to be >$12. For a RB or FP, I'd say >$20. I find my logic to be a little screwed up as I'm thinking that a ballpoint should be higher due to the mechanical piece, but that's just a random thought.


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## NittanyLion

I do not think you can necessarily equate price with high end.  Take all the new pens from PSI as an example.  All priced over $20, yet many have fit/finish issues, and none of them with what many consider to be a high quality plating.  To me, they are just over embellished glamour kits.  I would never consider them to be a high end pen....yet PSI has done a great job marketing them.  PSI found a niche in the market and a price point where they can likely make a good profit.

Personally, I consider a  Rhodium Jr. Gent with a great blank and custom finial about as high end as you can get from a kit pen.  It also must have great fit/finish.

Just my opinion, please do not crucify......


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## Dan Masshardt

I don't make many pens that I'd consider to be 'high end'.  Quality of blank material and craftsmanship and finish are always factors.  

These are the 'kits' that I'd generally consider these to be at or toward the high end.  

Emperor 
Lotus
Imperial 
Majestic
Statesman. 
Cambridge
Sceptre

The stainless kits and jr gent 2 in better platings are in that direction but can go either way I think depending on what you do with them.


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## GaryMGg

Smitty37 said:


> I see a lot of discussion about "high-end" component sets.  Tell me, just what price level is high end?  Do you all think in the same terms when you say high end....I'm asking about kit prices not finished product.



Funny how a thread like this is pretty timeless.
Smitty, I think IF you wanted a reply based exclusively on kit cost, you should have stuck with that and omitted "Do you all think in the same terms when you say high end" because that language opens the door for all manner of opinion and you can't herd cats. 
Anyway, for me the high-end cost kits were Imperial, Statesman, and Emperors in better platings. They were $50-ish and up each BUT could be had for a fair discount during group buys.
That reminds me, I've got a box full of NOS high-end kits in a drawer which need building -- I think I'll sell them to get kits for ServicePens.


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## Chatham PenWorks

NittanyLion said:


> I do not think you can necessarily equate price with high end.  Take all the new pens from PSI as an example.  All priced over $20, yet many have fit/finish issues, and none of them with what many consider to be a high quality plating.  To me, they are just over embellished glamour kits.  I would never consider them to be a high end pen....yet PSI has done a great job marketing them.  PSI found a niche in the market and a price point where they can likely make a good profit.
> 
> Personally, I consider a  Rhodium Jr. Gent with a great blank and custom finial about as high end as you can get from a kit pen.  It also must have great fit/finish.
> 
> Just my opinion, please do not crucify......



You beat me to it. PSI has so many expensive component sets that are just ornate, blingy, or gimmicky, but not at all high end, that a price point just doesn't do it anymore.


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## Freethinker

LOL.  I can commiserate with you Smitty.

You asked a simple question, yet people wanted for some reason to give answers to entirely different questions. 

As a direct answer to your asking what individuals here think of as being *high end* in terms of dollars and cents....I consider anything above $25 or so to be a *high end* kit. 

As someone else said, the question of how good or bad a writing instrument is created FROM a particular *high end* kit is another question entirely. 

I have seen some modified slims that were very well crafted and slick looking, while I have seen some of the most expensive kits (like the Emperor or Lotus) that were a bit bulbous looking and dressed in some quite unattractive plastic blanks.


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## Smitty37

GaryMGg said:


> Smitty37 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I see a lot of discussion about "high-end" component sets.  Tell me, just what price level is high end?  Do you all think in the same terms when you say high end...*.I'm asking about kit prices not finished product*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny how a thread like this is pretty timeless.
> Smitty, I think IF you wanted a reply based exclusively on kit cost, you should have stuck with that and omitted "Do you all think in the same terms when you say high end" because that language opens the door for all manner of opinion and you can't herd cats.
> Anyway, for me the high-end cost kits were Imperial, Statesman, and Emperors in better platings. They were $50-ish and up each BUT could be had for a fair discount during group buys.
> That reminds me, I've got a box full of NOS high-end kits in a drawer which need building -- I think I'll sell them to get kits for ServicePens.
Click to expand...

But that sentence is pretty clear ... I think.


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## Smitty37

Freethinker said:


> LOL.  I can commiserate with you Smitty.
> 
> You asked a simple question, yet people wanted for some reason to give answers to entirely different questions.
> 
> As a direct answer to your asking what individuals here think of as being *high end* in terms of dollars and cents....I consider anything above $25 or so to be a *high end* kit.
> 
> *As someone else said, the question of how good or bad a writing instrument is created FROM a particular *high end* kit is another question entirely.*
> 
> I have seen some modified slims that were very well crafted and slick looking, while I have seen some of the most expensive kits (like the Emperor or Lotus) that were a bit bulbous looking and dressed in some quite unattractive plastic blanks.


*That is why I didn't ask about finished pens*. We have here some pretty darned good blank makers selling blanks that cost quite a bit....I was wondering at what price level people might start using some of those blanks.....If one has a $50 or $60 blank are they going to put it on a $10 kit was something I was thinking there.


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## Smitty37

Chatham PenWorks said:


> NittanyLion said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do not think you can necessarily equate price with high end.  Take all the new pens from PSI as an example.  All priced over $20, yet many have fit/finish issues, and none of them with what many consider to be a high quality plating.  To me, they are just over embellished glamour kits.  I would never consider them to be a high end pen....yet PSI has done a great job marketing them.  PSI found a niche in the market and a price point where they can likely make a good profit.
> 
> Personally, I consider a  Rhodium Jr. Gent with a great blank and custom finial about as high end as you can get from a kit pen.  It also must have great fit/finish.
> 
> Just my opinion, please do not crucify......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Y*ou beat me to it. PSI has so many expensive component sets that are just ornate, blingy, or gimmicky, but not at all high end, that a price point just doesn't do it anymore*.
Click to expand...

 They didn't have them when the question was asked...I might word the question differently today.  BTW many of those PSI kits are the same kits with different cap/clip/tip. They have found a cheap way to introduce different designs for one, two or all of them.


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## lwalper

I am loathe to pay more than $5-6 for a kit. Most of them don't cost that much to produce. I know the distributors are filling a demand and I don't have a problem with some enterprising individual making a living, covering their costs, and making a business work. That said, a good quality mechanism (one that works well and reliably) coupled with a skilled artist/turner creates a "quality" pen. Quality components would include the components which actually involve more $$ materials, machining and better quality control on the front end.

The slimline/trimline style kits are affordable and can be turned into a "quality" product. For just a couple of bucks investment you can produce a really nice pen. If you find demand for "high-end" there's always the sterling silver or stainless steel available. For what they are even those parts seem to be reasonably priced, but you'll need a market that will appreciate the initial outlay to justify the price of a pen starting out with "quality" components.


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