# my lathe fried today!



## ZanderPommo (Jan 6, 2010)

my HF mini lathe died a few minutes ago.
was running funny, sounded like it was getting resistance, and the speed was fluctuating. then it started to smell bad, like something was burning. lasted me about a year, with no misreatment
i dunno what i'm going to do! i have orders to fill!, and i don't have enough saved to buy a new lathe (high school student)

if anyone has any suggestions on where to get a new lathe for a good price that would be great, but this is mostly to vent
i need a mini-midi lathe, with a variable speed knob, 1/2 horsepower or more, and needs to come with a live center, preferably 60 degree
my dead lathe was a #1 taper but if i buy a new lathe i'll probably upgrade to a #2
also would like to keep it  under $300
was thinking turncrafter variable speed??? i dunno:frown:
sorry for the rant, i guess this is what i get for counting on Harbor Freight


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## skiprat (Jan 6, 2010)

You said 'about' a year...is it still under warranty?
Either way, I'd just get it checked out, maybe something simple like brushes or capacitor.


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## Russell Eaton (Jan 6, 2010)

It could be the brushes. When they go it makes a funny smell, there should be two at the back side of the motor. It will usually have a large screw to hold them in with a spring. They are usually cheap, you may have to grind one to get the right size or fit. Hope this helps.  Russell


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## ZanderPommo (Jan 6, 2010)

no warranty. ive been penturning around a year but have had the lathe for probably almost two

i'm not sure which parts are what in the lathe, and i think any "having it looked at" may be close to the price of what i originally bought this lathe for (120) but then again as i said even if its a cheap fix i'm not sure i could do it..., i know nothing about lathe motors besides that 1/3 horsepower sucks


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## Russell Eaton (Jan 6, 2010)

Just look at the back end of the motor. It will be the end that is away from the headstock. If it has two screws a little smaller than a dime all you have to do is back them out and the spring will have the brush on the end. Just be sure to unplug the lathe first. they just plug in. Russell


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## THarvey (Jan 6, 2010)

Get on the internet and do a search for lathes in your area.

I have seen some retailers selling factory reconditioned Rikon midi lathes for excellent prices.


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## GaryMGg (Jan 6, 2010)

Again, check the capacitor: they burn out; produce the smell you indicate; and, are inexpensive and easy to replace.


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## ZanderPommo (Jan 6, 2010)

ok backed out those skrews and they were spring loaded. bt they have little rectangular blocks attached. are those brushes? they carry that smell but the whole motor could at this point.
what are they supposed to look like?


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## DozerMite (Jan 6, 2010)

It sounds like the capacitor. Mine did the same thing. Do you have anything else plugged into the same circut? That's what caused mine to fry. I now have it on a dedicated circut after replacing the motor.


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## jleiwig (Jan 6, 2010)

ZanderPommo said:


> ok backed out those skrews and they were spring loaded. bt they have little rectangular blocks attached. are those brushes? they carry that smell but the whole motor could at this point.
> what are they supposed to look like?


 
The blocks should be of a good size like this







and not worn down to nubs.  That being said, I'd agree with Gary and Dozer.  HF variable speed products are notorious for blowing capacitors.  I wouldn't recommend you try to fix it though as you can get a large charge.  You should be able to order a replacement controller board from HF for 50 bucks or so.


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## Displaced Canadian (Jan 6, 2010)

Slightly off topic, can he get adapters to make a #1 mandrel fit into a #2 mandrel to save some cost of retooling?
 Sorry can't help with the motor problem, I would just be guessing. Rockler carries a lathe that might be in your price range. Nothing fancy but it works.


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## nava1uni (Jan 6, 2010)

If you can afford a reconditioned Rikon I would go for it.  Real nice lathe hard working and has lots of power.  Of course I am partial since I own one.


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## Karin Voorhis (Jan 6, 2010)

Good luck!!! and yes please be careful with those capacitors they can be nasty things. not as bad as TV and CRT ones but none the less sparky shockers


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## MrPukaShell (Jan 6, 2010)

Here is on on Ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/JET-1014-VS-WOO...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item35a60ba659  Could be worth the drive.


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## randyrls (Jan 6, 2010)

Displaced Canadian said:


> Slightly off topic, can he get adapters to make a #1 mandrel fit into a #2 mandrel to save some cost of retooling?




Yes;  If you have MT1 mandrels, a sleeve is under $10 from many places.
This will fit into an MT2 spindle nose, and the MT1 mandrel fits inside. 
Look for arbor sleeve:
http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1193&category=

I have used one of these to adapt an MT3 spindle nose to an MT2 mandrel.


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## JerrySambrook (Jan 6, 2010)

I converted a mini to variable speed with the PSI setup.
The job went real easy, and the lather runs super with the system.
You may want to check it out.
It is about $110-$120 shipped

PM me if you want, and I can tell you my experience with doing that

Jerry


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## ZanderPommo (Jan 6, 2010)

thank you all for your help. these are my brushes, they don't look very good, one is considerably shorter and neither have any curvature on the ends, is this normal?


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## jleiwig (Jan 6, 2010)

ZanderPommo said:


> thank you all for your help. these are my brushes, they don't look very good, one is considerably shorter and neither have any curvature on the ends, is this normal?


 
Can you take a picture of them sideways? It depends on how the brushes sit against the armature.  I personally think they look fine. 

I'd look into the VS connversion from PSI.  I forgot about that one.  I know many people who have it and like it.


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## Displaced Canadian (Jan 6, 2010)

Not an expert, but those don't look that badly worn.


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## jedgerton (Jan 6, 2010)

Someone can correct me but...  If your motor has brushes, its a DC motor.  If it's a DC motor, it won't have a capacitor.  Capacitors are used on AC motors at startup to insure torque in a specific direction (specifically to introduce a phase offset between voltage and current).

But I could be wrong...

John


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## ZanderPommo (Jan 6, 2010)

dunno about that, but is one supposed to be 1/4 in shorter?


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## Gary Max (Jan 6, 2010)

Make a call and see if you can buy a replacement motor----you would be running again in just a couple days???????????


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## Displaced Canadian (Jan 6, 2010)

Again, not an expert. I don't think it is normal but I don't think it is a problem. You may try sand them flat and see if it works. Also if you get a lathe without VS you can get a separate VS switch.


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## ZanderPommo (Jan 6, 2010)

they also have soot on the ends and reek of that burning smell


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## Displaced Canadian (Jan 6, 2010)

That is normal.


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## DocStram (Jan 6, 2010)

If it's a HF you may be able to get a new one without paying a cent.  My HF is great for accepting returns . . . even without a receipt and no matter how long I've had it.   Load it up  in the car . . .   haul it into the store with a sad look on your face . . .  and ask the manager to help.
Give it a try!


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## Displaced Canadian (Jan 6, 2010)

If you look down the holes the brushes came you of, how does the armeature look


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## ZanderPommo (Jan 6, 2010)

sorry but what is the armeature?


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## Displaced Canadian (Jan 6, 2010)

It is a series of plates around the end of the shaft that the brushes rub against. Shine a light down the hole and turn the belt and you will see it. There should be spaces between the plates.


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## ZanderPommo (Jan 6, 2010)

looks fine, clean


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## jleiwig (Jan 7, 2010)

I'm telling you it's the VS control unit.  The motor is fine.  It's hard to kill a motor.  The electronics are not so hard to kill...especially the HF ones.  either get a replacement board from HF or order the VS conversion kit from PSI.


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## Len Shreck (Jan 7, 2010)

I didn't read every ones posts but take a look at craigslist, that's where I got my lathe, drill press and lathe stand all from same guy and cheap i think it was like, (150.00) its always worth a look. Good luck.


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## tim self (Jan 7, 2010)

+1 on this one.  This lathe is the same as my Shop Fox.  I have had the control unit burn about 4 times in the last 18 months.  Yes, it is a DC motor and the board is the problem.  If I has an extra, I'd send it to you.




jleiwig said:


> I'm telling you it's the VS control unit.  The motor is fine.  It's hard to kill a motor.  The electronics are not so hard to kill...especially the HF ones.  either get a replacement board from HF or order the VS conversion kit from PSI.


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## Len Shreck (Jan 7, 2010)

Dont they sell VS convertion kits for like 110.00 at CSUSA? Will that work to fix it? Again I didnt read all the posts.


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## jleiwig (Jan 7, 2010)

Len Shreck said:


> Dont they sell VS convertion kits for like 110.00 at CSUSA? Will that work to fix it? Again I didnt read all the posts.


 
Yes they do, but at pennstateind.com


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## Daniel (Jan 7, 2010)

Zander, My full time job that I have done for the last 5 years is a repair person for a large University. Basically I repair Vacuums and Buffers all day everyday. Mostly electrical motor diagnosis and repair. and yes our Vacuums have large motors like a lathe would have. your description of irratic power and burning smell tells my instinct that your brushes wore out. The brushes give off a very distinct odor as they start loosing contact. it is a burning smell but has what I describe as an acrid smell to it. very different and recognizable once you know what it is. Basically this is a repair you should be able to make easily, it is a part that is meant to wear out, and should not cost more than a few dollars. some sets of brushes can get expensive but I would not expect that on a HF lathe that I am assuming is in the 1/2 HP range. Actually finding the parts may be your biggest challenge. I know if I where ther in person I would be checking the brushes with 99 percent certainty that was the problem.


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## jleiwig (Jan 7, 2010)

Daniel said:


> Zander, My full time job that I have done for the last 5 years is a repair person for a large University. Basically I repair Vacuums and Buffers all day everyday. Mostly electrical motor diagnosis and repair. and yes our Vacuums have large motors like a lathe would have. your description of irratic power and burning smell tells my instinct that your brushes wore out. The brushes give off a very distinct odor as they start loosing contact. it is a burning smell but has what I describe as an acrid smell to it. very different and recognizable once you know what it is. Basically this is a repair you should be able to make easily, it is a part that is meant to wear out, and should not cost more than a few dollars. some sets of brushes can get expensive but I would not expect that on a HF lathe that I am assuming is in the 1/2 HP range. Actually finding the parts may be your biggest challenge. I know if I where ther in person I would be checking the brushes with 99 percent certainty that was the problem.


 
Did you not see the pics Daniel?  The brushes he posted look fine to me.


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## Daniel (Jan 7, 2010)

Zander, Just went back and read the rest of the thread. I looked at your photos of the brushes and they are fine. so now we can work on the one percent that is left. Uneven wear on the brushes is not unusual. it does mean one will wear out before the other eventually.
As others have already said look down in the hole the brushes came out of and see if the copper plates in there are clean and look like brass or copper. if they look black you could be loosing contact between these plates and the brushes. if they are dirty you can clean them up with a pencil eraser. The brushes are graphite which is the same thing as pencil lead. while turning the UNPLUGGED motor by hand. just stick the eraser end of a pencil in the hole and turn the motor.
I woudl also suspect the VS Control but that does not come into play in my everyday repairs as none of our equipment has those. any black powder you see on your brushes is normal. that is what is left of the brushes as they wear away but a build up on the armature is a potential problem. 
By the way did you notice if the motor got hot? I know it seems obvious that if it had a smell it was hot. but this is not necessarily true. something got hot but not necessarily the motor. another trick I woudl start using to diagnose the problem is to start bypassing things. connect the incoming power wires directly to the motor and take the switch and VS Control board out of the circuit. if the motor runs (done let it run for more than a quick second) then the problem is not in the motor. if the motor still does not run the problem is in the motor. you can actually disconnect the wires and figure out a way to connect them to the motor or use jump wires to do it. Keep the switch on the lathe in the off position and you will not have any current run through the switch or circuit board. just be careful as you are making yourself at risk of electrical shock from any bare wire connections etc and leave the motor connected to the lathe so it is held firmly. there is a lot of tork in those motors when they turn on. basically it is best to have everything holding itself in place so you do not have to be anywhere near it when you plug it in. then just plug it in long enough to know if the motor runs or not. some problems with electrical things can be intermittant. which means they happen for a while than go away only to return later. but motors tend to be pretty direct about breaking down. once they start going they get the job done pretty fast. OF course something frying on a curcuit board woudl have hte same effect.
On the note of hte curcuit board. sometimes you can look at the board for burn marks or melted parts and see that something burned up. you might give the VS a good looking over and see if you can see anything.


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## Daniel (Jan 7, 2010)

jleiwig said:


> Did you not see the pics Daniel?  The brushes he posted look fine to me.



Yeah I did.... eventually  Still the smell issue tells me there is a problem with the brushes or at least brush contact. of course a smell is a bit broad since a cooked component on a circuit board will have an odor as well.
Being a HF lathe the Circuit board is highly suspect by the way. cheap components is one way they make the lathes cheaper.

I own a HF Mini metal lathe and the MOSFET burned on the VS right out of the gate. I was pre warned about this. Radio shack fixed me up with a quality replacement and I have not had a problem since. I do not recall an odor when it went but cannot recall if I was paying that much attention. when the lathe died I pretty much knew what it was and just went to town getting it up and running again. Most curcuit board components at least that size do not produce enough smell to stink up an entire motor. my gut still says the problem is at the brushes. may just be hard headed but when I read the original post everything in me said brushes. like I said I do this every day all day long. I am not anywhere near always right but I do chew on my most suspected bone until it has no taste left in it.

By the way, it should not be so but we are talking a HF lathe. but that shorter brush may be just at the point of loosing contact. when you put it back in make sure you are getting a bit of resistance from the spring. this insures that the brush is actually pushing against the armature. if there is no resistance the brush may just barely coming up short of touching. loss of contact with just one brush will bring the motor to a complete stop.


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## tim self (Jan 7, 2010)

So that's what you call that part.  Always wondered cause it is a pain when it burns and mine did smell and even heard it pop one time.


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## jleiwig (Jan 7, 2010)

Daniel said:


> Yeah I did.... eventually  Still the smell issue tells me there is a problem with the brushes or at least brush contact. of course a smell is a bit broad since a cooked component on a circuit board will have an odor as well.
> Being a HF lathe the Circuit board is highly suspect by the way. cheap components is one way they make the lathes cheaper.


 
I'd be willing to bet money that it's the circuit board.  It's a known HF issue.  If he took the cover off the VS unplugged he'd probably see a spot where a capacitor had fried. Not sure about being able to replace it, as I don't know his electric skills.  A tech would be just as expensive as buying the PSI VS kit.

I'm not sure, but i'd also guess it's the same speed controller they have for the metal lathes, which you can read about here http://littlemachineshop.com/Reference/DriveTroubleshooting.pdf

But if your at all uncomfortable don't mess with it, just buy the PSI kit.


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## ssajn (Jan 7, 2010)

I was in HF a while back when another customer tried to return a compressor that died. He hadn't purchased the extended warranty but the store manager had him buy the warranty and gave him a new machine. Everyone walked away happy. Talk to the manager and see what he says. You have nothing to loose.
From my own experience, I've never had a problem with HF.
Dave


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## ssajn (Jan 7, 2010)

Here's another option.
http://www.pennstateind.com/store/TCLVSKIT.html
Dave


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## Daniel (Jan 7, 2010)

Justin, your guess that it would be the same board is probably dead on. But without verification of that I would not want to make a recommendation on it. if it was a capacitor you should be able to see it. if it was the MOSFET you will not. that is why I don't think there was a smell when my lathe went out. it does not burn up as much as it just stops working. I also do not recommend trying to replace a capacitor or diode etc unless you know what you are doing. the fumbling around trying to get a correct solder ususally means death for small components. they cannot handle the heat of being soldered for very long so you have to get the touch solder and back out thing down pretty well. the smaller the component the more important it is to be fast. Generally the fix for a bad circuit board is to replace the whole board and you never really know just what part of it went bad. I did the MOSFET thing on my lathe one beasue I do know how to solder electronic parts and two I had already been told that it would go. Basically a by product of hanging around the Yahoo mini lathe group. had a bunch of folks even offer to mail me the parts as they had spares hanging around for other members. it is a very common break down on the mini metal lathe.


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## ZanderPommo (Jan 7, 2010)

ok, I just got home, i see this has been a hot topic
the brushes are gone, as when i tried to put them back in one cracked in half, very fragile.
yes it made a very distinct rancid smell, similar but worse than burning rubber.
im not going to take it apart any more on the off chance i can return it, and also if it was the circuit board or whatever than it would be like $100-$110 to fix when i bought the lathe for 110-$120. i simply find that rediculous.

now i think it is basically down to what lathe should I buy, as i do not think, having done a search, that I will be able to find the replacement brushed for such a cheap lathe, if that even is the problem.

id drive down to HF right now except we have a ton of snow coming down, the roads suck, and the nearest one is 45 min away:frown:
oh and i got my license yesterday:frown::frown::redface:


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## dogcatcher (Jan 7, 2010)

If it was me I would be checking the local Craig's list.  There are some great bargains out there, you just have to find them first.


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## ZanderPommo (Jan 7, 2010)

i did yesterday. all i could find was a rusty old(really old!) metal lathe with no motor...:frown:

its just not my week lol


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## Robert Taylor (Jan 7, 2010)

well, if you can't find a lathe head on up to new lennox and have some "chicago dough" pizza


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## ZanderPommo (Jan 7, 2010)

I'm always open to that!:biggrin:
I'll check them out, 15-20 min away


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## Displaced Canadian (Jan 8, 2010)

You also could get a wheel and a really fast hamster. :biggrin:


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## ZanderPommo (Jan 8, 2010)

lol, any voulenteers?


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## KD5NRH (Jan 8, 2010)

Well, if the motor mount isn't too screwy and you don't mind giving up VS, there should be a shade-tree appliance repair guy somewhere near you who can come up with a motor that will fit, and just bypass the VS controls.  Depending on what he has laying around, you might get more horsepower and a simpler VS setup out of the deal too.


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## ZanderPommo (Jan 10, 2010)

well, i exchanged it today without a problem.very nice folks.
i brought it home to find it is junk.

the motor has no torque and when i touch a tool to the lathe any more than LIGHTLY it just plain out stops, but i can still hear something spinning???

then to the tailstock assembly....

the actual shaft the tailstock taper sits in is stuck in the assembly. had to whack it out of there and clean out the inside of the tailstock with a file before it would fit back in nicely, also the tailstock tightening screw on the top, which screws down snug against the shaft, is in there like somebody welded it there. just trying to move it i needed a wrench for leverage. that is of course until the soft steel bolt just TWISTED OFF! AS IN BROKE!
best of all this was the last they had at that store, it was the floor model.:at-wits-end:

i just wanted it to make a dozen or so pens, until I could afford a turncrafter pro vs midi lathe. I didn't even get a one:frown:


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## DozerMite (Jan 10, 2010)

ZanderPommo said:


> best of all this was the last they had at that store, it was the floor model.:at-wits-end:


 
Never take the floor model. Every person that walks past it, has to mess with it whether they know anything about it or not. Things are going to get screwed up.


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## jbostian (Jan 10, 2010)

Man sorry to hear about your problems.  Is there any adjustments for the drive belt?  It it stops but sounds like something is still spinning I would think your drive belt is slipping.

Jamie


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## jbostian (Jan 10, 2010)

Is this the $120 lathe from HF?  I have a Wilton lathe but it has the same specs and other then color looks like the same lathe.  I just looked at mine and it looks like you can adjust the motor to take up slack in the drive belt.  On mine there are 2 cap screws holding the motor to the lathe.  There is one screw in the front and one in the rear.  If you were looking at the back of the motor from the tailstock end, the screws are in the 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock positions.  The screw in the 9 o'clock position has a slotted mounting hole.  Loosen up both screws and push the motor down to take up the slack.  Hold the motor in place while you tighten up the screw that is in front(the one with the slotted mounting hole).  Then tighten up the rear screw.  Hopefully that will take up any slack that is in the drive belt and you will at least be able to use the lathe.  As fas as the screw that broke off in the tail stock I would try a screw extractor.  Hope some of this helps you get back to turning.

Jamie


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## ZanderPommo (Jan 10, 2010)

thanks i'll take a look.
yep it is the 120 dollar lathe, and no i didn't have a choice to not take the floor model, it was all they had. i was just hoping it wouldn't be too messed up:frown:


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## ZanderPommo (Jan 10, 2010)

that is exactly how it is set up, and i did what you said. im going out now to se if that fixed it and see if i can turn a cigar. update to follow.
thank you everyone, i may now be able to make some pens and buy a new lathe, thanks to this amazing site filled with people who love to help out their fellow man (or woman or in my case kid...)


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## ZanderPommo (Jan 11, 2010)

once again thank you all.
proof that it works enough to make money for a new lathe!
casted myself, i believe it is western diamondback rattler





the seam side


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## rjwolfe3 (Jan 11, 2010)

Looks great and I am glad you got it fixed.


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## seawolf (Jan 11, 2010)

*lathe*

Don't know if ths helps on Chicago CL Palmgren Wood Lathe - $75 - (Near Lawrence/Pulaski)
Mark


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## jbostian (Jan 11, 2010)

Looking good.  Glad you got the lathe working.

Jamie


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