# Minwax Polycrylic and water based stains



## samuel07 (Sep 12, 2006)

I am just stating to turn pens and was wondering if anyone has ever tried Minwax Polycrylic and or Minwax waterbased stains on pens?

I have a bunch of cherry that I have been cutting into blanks but it is not very exciting wood. I was just hoping to deepen the color a little. I've got some walnut and wormy chestnut also.

I wanted to use materials that I already have before I go purchase CA/BLO.

Thanks.


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## RussFairfield (Sep 12, 2006)

I tried the Minwax Polycrylic as a pen finish when I made my "Finishing Secrets for Pens" video. I finished 5 pens with it, and let them age before testing thei hardness. My conclusion was that as a pen finish, it was slightly harder than a shellac friction polish, but not as good as Deft lacquer. 

I didn't include it in the video because there are better things that we can use as a finish. 

That doesn't mean you shouldn't use it. The pens looked fine. It just means that I choose not to use it again because I can get almost as good a finish with a friction polish with a lot less work. Others may have different things to say about it.


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## alamocdc (Sep 12, 2006)

I've used Polycrylic in spray form on a few pens. One is my daily carrier (as a test of the durability). I've only been carrying it for two weeks and it still looks good. However, the jury is still out.


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## Monty (Sep 12, 2006)

Russ, I read the post as he wants to <b>"stain"</b>the pen to change/intensify the color. I may be wrong but I don't think the stains he mentioned would be a problem if he then finishes with a laquer or CA or plexi topcoat finish.


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## samuel07 (Sep 12, 2006)

My main goal is to get some experience before spending a lot of money. I have the polycrylic and the stain and the cherry and walnut for blanks. 
How long should it take to complete a pen with the polycrylic using a hairdryer?
Can the waterbased stains be topcoated quickly or should I wait overnight?

I can't imagine the walnut benefiting much from the stain but I would think that the cherry would take the stain nicely.


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## alamocdc (Sep 12, 2006)

Sam, I'd let the stain dry over night. I also let my Polycrylic finished pesn set up for two days before buffing.


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## g.alemy0218 (Sep 12, 2006)

i use polycrylic a bunch and i put it on the pen while on the lathe with a small rag at a slow speed and put a blowdryer to it, while turning and dries real fast so you can apply additional coats, my pens hold up pretty darn good
I just receieved some laquer based friction polish called, turners magic, suppose to be excellent stuff, wont get to use it until late this weekend, but will posst come pics when i do.

Thanks
Gregg


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## redfishsc (Sep 12, 2006)

Being a cabinet finisher, maybe I can offer some "industrial strength" advice. 


Polycrylic is waterbased and, as a rule, waterbased is rarely if ever anywheres near as hard as the solvent based counterpart-- this is no excpetion  <br />

You can get as good or better finish using Deft or a similar lacquer, and quicker at that-- lacquer cures fairly swiftly  <br />

 Stain will not likely do a pen wonders since we typically sand the snot out of a pen blank (up to 12,000 micromesh, which is around 6-8,000 grit)---- stains need something for the pigments to bind into, and close-pore woods like cherry aren't going to accept much pigment. Most stains are actually blends of pigments and dyes. The dyes will color the wood and the pigments will mostly rub right off. The final effect will be a color not at all like what's promised on the can lid (not that it ever is even in perfect staining conditions.....I hate minwax!)  <br />

 Stick with a straight dye (like regular old grocery store RIT dye or solvent-based aniline dyes from www.woodturnerscatalog.com or somewhere similar. A good alcohol or acetone based dye will dry superfast and will be ready to finish in less than a minute. The color will look great-- you can mix them as well to get the color you want. <br />


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## samuel07 (Sep 12, 2006)

redfishsc

Sounds like the Deft is what I might like. Can you walk me through the process


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## Joe Melton (Sep 13, 2006)

Samuel, if you can turn a pen ok, why waste time using such plain woods? The differential in selling price of a plain pen vs. one made with a unique wood more than justifies the latter. Go ahead and spend the two bucks.
And, as for hardness of oil-based vs. water-based, while it was true a few years ago that oil-based cured harder, I don't think that is still true. We had our hardwood floors refinished and the company used water-based poly. Enduro, which is so often mentioned here, is used on cabinets, bar tops and gym floors.
Just my opinions.
Joe

What war would Jesus start?


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## RussFairfield (Sep 13, 2006)

The hardest finish we can put on a pen, short of dipping it an acrylic, is Enduro; and Enduro is a waterborne Polyurethane. There is no comparison between Enduro and the MinWax Polycrylic.


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## mrcook4570 (Sep 13, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Joe Melton_Samuel, if you can turn a pen ok, why waste time using such plain woods?



While I certainly agree with you, there are some people who are dead set against anything else.  I don't know if it's because they have heard of walnut and cherry (and associate them with fine furniture) or what the deal is, but hey, the customer is always right []


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## samuel07 (Sep 14, 2006)

Joe:
Your right about the wood being plain but I already have it and I have bunch. I have started collecting some other stuff. I found what I think is a peice of bubinga that should yeild about 10 or 12 blanks for just over three dollars. 

What type of exotic woods worked well for you when you started?

I did try my first CA/BLO finish last night and was pretty happy with it.
I'll try to post a picture soon


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## samuel07 (Sep 14, 2006)

Here is a picture of my first CA/BLO finish.

Lousy picture but I am pleased with the pen for my first try with CA/BLO.

Anyone want to try to Identify the wood?

I have no idea what it is! I picked it up in China when we were adopting my daughter so I could build some keepsake boxes. It is actually three pieces glued together. This wood is grey in appearence and almost as light as balsa wood. The pieces were cut into 1/4' x 1 1/2" strips cut across the very straight grain (kinda like quarter sawn)


Thankfully it seemed to turn OK.

I'll try to take some better pictures of the pen and some of the wood before it is glued up.






<br />


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## Joe Melton (Sep 14, 2006)

Samuel, if you have a Woodcraft within driving distance, they have many different pen blanks. You can pick out the ones that are interesting to you. There are probably a thousand web sites selling blanks. Two, arizonasilhouette.com and beartoothwoods.com, are popular with list members and have lots of blanks with pictures. Pennstateindustries.com has some nice blanks. Ebay is awash with pen blanks.
You will discover that the more you impress your wife with your pens, the more money will be available for your hobby. Try a piece of Tulipwood or Canarywood. They are cheap and pretty. Bocote and the rosewoods are nice. These are all easy to turn and relatively cheap (less than 2 bucks), and the oohs from her will persuade you to try even more exotic stuff. About any of BB's stabilized burls are beautiful, though a bit more expensive. I wouldn't go for those until I was able to comfortably turn a pen that has all the fittings perfectly matched, though.
Perhaps other list members can direct you to other sources or other inexpensive and beautiful woods.
Joe

What war would Jesus start?


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## redfishsc (Sep 14, 2006)

> _Originally posted by samuel07_
> <br />redfishsc
> 
> Sounds like the Deft is what I might like. Can you walk me through the process



Looks like you have found a good finish with the CA/BLO method. Develope  it and you'll likely not use much lacquer. I personally use catalyzed lacquers and conversion varnishes to finish my pens b/c I have them available and find them easier to use than CA finishes (I usually turn 5-10 pens at a time and finish them all at once using an airbrush). 

There are various articles and topics on using lacquer--- spraying or dipping. Use the search option and you'll get a LOT of info. Personally I've never even sprayed Deft on a pen since I have much more durable finishes available to me.


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## jeffj13 (Sep 15, 2006)

Samuel,

If you have a compressor, I would suggest buying an airbrush for spraying lacquer.  I started spraying lacquer with a rattle can, but I got tired of wasting lacquer because of the overspray.

I found I had more control, got better results and wasted less material with an airbrush.

Since money appears to be an issue for you (as it is for me, you can typically pick one up on sale at Harbor Freight for around $6.00.

jeff


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## samuel07 (Sep 15, 2006)

jeffj13

Are you refering to an artists type airbrush? I have a Badger model 150 and a small compressor. (I think that is right?)


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## alamocdc (Sep 16, 2006)

Samuel, your Badger should work just fine. My Pasche brushes do.


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## Blind_Squirrel (Sep 16, 2006)

> _Originally posted by RussFairfield_
> <br />The hardest finish we can put on a pen, short of dipping it an acrylic, is Enduro; and Enduro is a waterborne Polyurethane. There is no comparison between Enduro and the MinWax Polycrylic.



Russ, 

Is Enduro harder than CA?


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## RussFairfield (Sep 16, 2006)

Enduro was harder than CA for me.


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## mijanderson (Sep 18, 2006)

I have used Minwax Polycrylic on several pens.  I apply it with a foam brush and use a hair dryer between coats.  I usually run the lathe at 2200 rpm when applying the finish.  The finish usually reaches its final hardness after 3-5 days at room temp.  I am a coatings chemist.  Based on my formulating experience, acrylic latex coatings (Polycrylic) can be as hard if not harder than a solvent borne coating.  It really depends on the glass transition temperature of the resins used in the formulation.


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## Thumbs (Sep 19, 2006)

Thanks, Jim.  I might just have to try some Minwax, too.  It seems to be a good deal cheaper than Enduro.[]


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## Mike_in_CA (Sep 25, 2006)

Hi Samuel, you've gotten plenty of good advice on final finishes. So I'll try not to be redundant. You want to get rid of what you have which I certainly understand.
As far as the raw blank is concerned, there's a ton you can do with "plane" wood. For the Cherry and lighter wood, like Maple, you may have lying around, try something like the Behlens alchohol based dyes. There's a bunch of color tones available. You can use right from the bottle, or delute. 

A friend thought he was doing me a favor and gave me a lot of wood, long pieces in pen blank sizes. To make the pens a bit more interesting, after sanding, I dyed the blank with different dyes. Then did final sanding, then a clear gloss finish.
The grain, what there was of it, did come out which made the color and wood a little bit more interesting. But not fantastic. Is it better than a clear finish? That's strictly subjective. It just adds some variety.
Good Luck, Mike


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