# $10 vs $50



## MikeyTn (Sep 8, 2010)

I recently started turning again after being away from my shop for about two years. I normally made my pens as gifts before but now I need to supplement my income if possible. What pens I did sell from my shirt pocket I would ask $10. Most were slim line twist pens that I had been carrying. I searched on Ebay and saw a wide range of prices for pens similar to what I make. 

My question is why some craftsmen seem to be happy selling pens for $10 and others feel comfortable asking $50 for similar pen kits and blanks? Is the difference the finish or does the higher priced pen just come in a snazzy box that costs more than the kit + blank?

Like I said I need to supplement my income if possible so I would like to sell my work for more but at the same time I want to supply honest value and not make fancy marketing the difference.

I did browse Cross and Polaris pens at an office supply store. The least expensive was $50 for a plain jane aluminum pen. Judging from that handmade pens should command atleast $50 IMHO.


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## ToddMR (Sep 8, 2010)

I personally feel it comes down to the person.  I do this strictly as a hobby, so I tend to maybe want less than most people for the pens I do.  If your going all out then you want to cover your supplies, expenses for materials, time, shows, etc.  I have not heard of many people doing only pens unless they are a full time show person.  I am sure it is possible, but I personally can't sell a pen online, even on ebay, even when its super unique.  So who knows, I would look more at what pens are selling and then look at the prices for those pens being sold, just my thought on the matter.  But like I said I think pricing depends on what the person is trying to cover with the price.  Hope you do well for whatever it is you decide.


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## Frank Nemke sr (Sep 8, 2010)

People will pay $20 for a pen they like, but will NOT pay $10 for one that they don't like.  If you raise your price to $20, you will sell just as many pens.  I have had sales of 5 or 6 pens to one person and did not need to discount .  There are alot of little cost that most people do-not think about when pricing. You can go broke selling at a profit if your profit margin doesn't cover all your costs.  4 instence, My son built 3 metal racks for a store.  Charged $200 each wheels cost almost $75 each= $225 Paint $12 used scrap sq. tubing, figured free. I figured $200    Spent $28= welding wire total cost without labor $465.  that left $135 for him, so he thought.  Electric bill came in at $258 more than normal.
  Get the picture?


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## johnnycnc (Sep 8, 2010)

I'll take 50 any day of the week.
The more you ask, the greater the perceived value..up to a point I suppose!


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## azamiryou (Sep 8, 2010)

Some people are hobbyists who just want to make back some of what they spend on the parts. "Woohoo, I get to make pens and it doesn't cost me anything!"

Other people are running a business and want to get paid a fair wage for their time as well as covering all costs, including utilities, tools, marketing, etc.

The $50 pen isn't necessarily better, but there's a lot of perceived value. Consider any item you don't make yourself - would you rather buy it (handmade) from a pro, or a hobbyist? How much difference would you expect in the price?


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## redfishsc (Sep 8, 2010)

I typically charge $25 for any slimline pen unless the customer specifically wants a "raw" finish (ie, only linseed oil and wax). 

But it's definitely going to be the best slimline I can possibly make.

I make sure the pen is about as perfect as I can reasonably get it, and I never (and I do mean NEVER) use 24k gold plating--- I only use gold ti, black ti, plat/rhodium, and sometimes chrome. Thus the cost of the kit is always higher (except with chrome). I do not want a pen coming back to me with the gold plating rubbed off.



A good kit, with a good titanium or rhodium plating, with a good solid finish (like CA finish, enduro, or conversion varnish) is worth at LEAST $25.


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## redfishsc (Sep 8, 2010)

azamiryou said:


> The $50 pen isn't necessarily better, but there's a lot of perceived value.




Our wood turning tools are a good example of this. Most of my turning tools are PSI stuff and they work just fine. I can't see myself paying $100+ for a tool with someone elses name on it when I can get basically the same thing elsewhere for $20.


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## Rangertrek (Sep 8, 2010)

If you are selling pens to supplement your income, then at $10 you are going the wrong way.  This is only a hobby for me and I do sell pens at shows, on the web, etc.  I still want to pay MYSELF fairly for my time and I want to COVER my costs.  My personal opinion - anyone selling a slimline for under $20 is just crazy.  They are just supplementing a gift.

Make the best pen you can and ask a fair price for it.  A fair price will vary around the country.  I have only been doing this for 2 years and I have moved away from slimlines and mostly go Euro, Barons,  and upper end pens.  You can ask more $ for those types of pens and thus you have the potential to make a higher profit on the sale.  Yes, I sell a few less pens; but, I make a little more money in the end.
Hope this helps.


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## aggromere (Sep 8, 2010)

I don't make slimlines and that is one of the reasons.  I try to make pens that a person can't get anywhere else.  I sell a lot of cigar pen kit pens (i do segmentation and such on them and they look nice) for anywhere from $40.00 to $65.00.  As I sell more I'm going to bump the $40.00 pen to $45.00.  I think anyone that wants a nice pen knows the price is gonna be in the $50.00 range give or take.


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## redfishsc (Sep 8, 2010)

I have a very hard time getting a reasonable price with segmented pens. The amount of labor they require is more than I can repeatedly put into a pen that I'd sell for $65, and even then, they aren't that popular around here. Folks usually want either wood or Tru-stone, or sometimes a flashy acrylic (esp. ladies.... or guys that drive hot yellow Corvettes)


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## Andrew Arndts (Sep 8, 2010)

I have to say, Know your area or venue and determine how much you can make.  I sometimes go to Renaissance Faires. I have seen an Item go for $50 at one location.  The same seller, same item, different area, $75.  Their reasoning, "The economics of this area is very good."  
Take this as you may.


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## jskeen (Sep 8, 2010)

As you can tell from the replies, there are a lot of variables on what you can get for a slimline pen.  If you buy the cheapest kits and basic blanks, you might make a little money selling for under $20, but probably not for long.  If you use good platings, high quality blanks  and can do a decent ca finish, you can make a little money selling at 25 to 30.  If you do that plus you can absolutely nail the fit so that you can't feel the transition from wood to metal, at all four junctions, every time, you can sell that same pen for $50 pretty regularly, if you can find the right venue.  That's the way to supplement your income.  It's not easy, but it has the advantage of working.


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## InetKen (Sep 8, 2010)

I'm just getting started in pen turning, but I have experience as a business owner and with small business.  I've also helped my wife with her jewelry sales online and at shows.  

The difference, IMHO, is the value.  I like to tell my consulting customers this story: We got a call from a bank whose server was crashing daily.  Their then current consultants had been working on the problem for a month.  We met with the customer and explained what we do and what we charge, which was more than double than their current people.  They basically said "Don't call us, we'll call you."  No problem.  Later that same day their server crashed again and they called us.  I took a look at the problem and had them up and running in an hour and had a part on order to fix the problem permananently.  They became a contract customer, and when I took the monthly bill I joked to one of the VP's, "Here's the bad news.".  Her response?  "We don't mind paying for good service."  I have several stories like this.

If someone sells a pen for $10, then it is a $10 pen.  I think the difference is that if you are going to sell a $50+ pen for income, you now must be a professional pen maker, not a "hobbyist" or "part-timer" and define yourself as a professional craftsman.  No one needs to know it's a part-time business.  If someone shells out $75 or $200 for a pen, then the quality must at least match that price.  There are some books out there on pricing crafts for sale and selling crafts, which applies here too.  A pen seller is also going to back up their products.  I doubt that $10 pen buyer is going to get any satisfaction if they have a problem with their pen and want the maker to fix any problems with the turning or pen kit.

As far as making sales, a well designed, easy to navigate web site that is easy to purchase from is very important.  That web site is a first impression and well, let's just say, there is some improvements that can be made on some of the web sites out there.

Probably the most important part of selling is MARKETING!  If you aren't a natural salesperson (as I am not) then this seems to be the most difficult aspect of small business.  At Community College Community Services there are usually, here in Sothern California anyway, several courses for small business, including marketing.

This is getting a bit long, so I'm going to stop here, maybe start another thread or reply on something I think could be important.


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## Andrew Arndts (Sep 9, 2010)

InetKen said:


> ...Probably the most important part of selling is MARKETING!...



Perhaps, however I will state this... The most important aspect in selling is CONFIDENCE in the product your selling.  As a long term sales person, I did not have confidence in an add on Item that comes with an appliance like a Stove or Clothes washer. (Yeah that Maintenance Agreement) So I had no sales and I got yelled at.  I changed my attitude, and I got sales.  
Now, If one has Confidence in that the pen they make, whether it is a Slim or cigar, or what ever you turn.  If you think it is worthy of a what you put on that price tag (given this is the market research that you have to figure out by having conversation with others vendors in certain events) then that is what you will get.  Yet, it never hurts to have the "Five and Dime" items for that impulse purchase. One last thing, give yourself haggle room too.  yes even in this time, people still haggle, hoping to get a better price. So it never hurts to tact on 5 or 10% over what you originally feel is your price.


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## sbell111 (Sep 9, 2010)

MikeyTn said:


> I recently started turning again after being away from my shop for about two years. I normally made my pens as gifts before but now I need to supplement my income if possible. What pens I did sell from my shirt pocket I would ask $10. Most were slim line twist pens that I had been carrying. I searched on Ebay and saw a wide range of prices for pens similar to what I make.
> 
> My question is why some craftsmen seem to be happy selling pens for $10 and others feel comfortable asking $50 for similar pen kits and blanks?


Given that you've been selling your pens for $10, it seems that you would be in the best position to answer this question.


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## InetKen (Sep 9, 2010)

> The most important aspect in selling is CONFIDENCE in the product your selling.


 
I guess I mis-spoke. The most difficult aspect of a small business is selling, which encompasses, sales and marketing. I don't know about confidence, I'm sure Yugo salesmen weren't thinking they were selling the best cars. However, if you are manufacturing your pens and are selling them, yes, you have to be confident on the price you are selling them for and that the buyer percieves they are getting the full value of what they are paying for.


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## redfishsc (Sep 9, 2010)

Andrew Arndts said:


> One last thing, give yourself haggle room too.  yes even in this time, people still haggle, hoping to get a better price. So it never hurts to tact on 5 or 10% over what you originally feel is your price.




In my particular case, where I'm not in a hurry to turn a large profit, I never accept haggles unless they want something like an upgraded pen pouch or box (ie, trivial cost). My pens always come with a pen pouch but sometimes on a more costly pen I'll find something like a $3 leatherette pouch for them. 


My price is my price . I also do mostly custom work at this point so the buyer is hand picking their materials/kits, which involves more time working over the details (and more shipping costs) so I never back off of a price.


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## fernhills (Sep 9, 2010)

I don`t sell many slimlines, i carry them in case someone wants one.  I like to sell higher end pens.  I sold one full size Statesman for $230.00 last week. That is 23 $10.00 slims. Of course the kit cost a bit more,but 23 slim kits and 23 blanks and 23 boxes and the time to pakage all them and trips to the PO makes up for the higher end kit cost. I sell a pen like that once a month or so. I sold that one on Ebay.


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## jskeen (Sep 9, 2010)

fernhills said:


> I don`t sell many slimlines, i carry them in case someone wants one.  I like to sell higher end pens.  I sold one full size Statesman for $230.00 last week. That is 23 $10.00 slims. Of course the kit cost a bit more,but 23 slim kits and 23 blanks and 23 boxes and the time to pakage all them and trips to the PO makes up for the higher end kit cost. I sell a pen like that once a month or so. I sold that one on Ebay.



Just curious, but of that $230 how much did feebay get?  Haven't sold there in years, but heard their cut had gotten much deeper than it used to be (and I thought it was steep then).


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## fernhills (Sep 9, 2010)

I think it was $16ish + paypal fee. it is usually is 12% up to a certain amount of which i don`t recall what the cut-offs are. They are costly, you have to price things to get back. Once in a great while i`ll run an auction on a item, i usually lose.


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## Smitty37 (Sep 9, 2010)

*Depends*

If you intend to sell the occasional pen to help defray the cost of your hobby...sell for whatever moves a pen and don't concern yourself with costs.

If you want to get all your costs back and make a profit, it isn't a hobby, it's a business.  Then you find a pen style you can make and sell for more than all of your costs...

People say you should pay yourself for your labor, the IRS says you can't do that with a sole proprietorship.  The pay for your labor is the profit and it is usually less (but can be more) than you make in your day job.  That applies whether your business is making and selling custom pens, or running an ice cream store


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## Smitty37 (Sep 10, 2010)

*More than 16*



fernhills said:


> I think it was $16ish + paypal fee. it is usually is 12% up to a certain amount of which i don`t recall what the cut-offs are. They are costly, you have to price things to get back. Once in a great while i`ll run an auction on a item, i usually lose.


 
 12% up to $50, 6% over that to $1000.  Paypal is close to 3% unless you do at least $3000 a month then it is a little over 2 1/2%.


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