# Which Cutting Tools For Kitless



## Alex D (Apr 30, 2014)

I am getting ready to plunge into the kitless realm and and taking a hybrid approach.  I don't have a metal lathe, but I have a nice old Delta 12 inch wood lathe from the 40's and I was just able to pick up the compound cross slide that was an option on these lathes back in the day.  I know I am not going to be able to do much, if any, metal working (at least not anything beyond brass and aluminum), but it should be able to handle plastic pens without any problems.

In essence, I will be turning on a wood lathe, but using the cross slide to help with accuracy.

So....being new to the world of metal tooling, I could use some advice on where to start.  My slide comes with a rocker/lantern tool post.  Eventually I may want to switch to a QCTP, but for now, I'd like to stick with what I have.

I think the only operations I will be doing with the slide are facing, external sizing and possibly boring.

With that, any tips on where to start?  I've seen straight holders, left holders, right holders, boring bars, you name it and frankly I just need some help with the bare bones of which toolholders and cutting tools I need to get off the ground.

I looked around and did some research and searching and could not come up with the answer for this.  Plenty of info on taps and dies, but nothing this basic!

Thanks,
Alex


----------



## BSea (Apr 30, 2014)

You really don't need a metal lathe or a cross slide attachment to do a kitless pen.  I'll bet the majority of kitless pens on this site have been done with a wood lathe with no attachments like would be used on a metal lathe.

I will say that there are some special tools needed though. but they can all be used on either a wood lathe, or a metal lathe.

Here's what I think you need:
Collet chuck with  collets
Die holder
Drill Chuck
Special taps & dies (I don't mean expensive, just not the normal taps & dies you find in a set from harbor freight. Most of the threading is much finer than you will find in those sets.)
calipers (you should have these anyway)

I'm sure I'm forgetting some things, but this should get you started in the right direction.  I'm not saying you shouldn't get those holders for your cross slide.  I just think they aren't necessary.  And you'll need the other things anyway.

Hope this helps


----------



## Dalecamino (Apr 30, 2014)

Of course you can make a kitless pen on a wood lathe. A metal lathe just takes less effort and, is more accurate. Also makes turning metal parts easier and, more accurate. ( I think I already said that) I would like to see the set up you are describing. Do you have photos? 

I have made aluminum pens on a wood lathe using a Woodchuck Pen Pro carbide tool. It is slow and, have to sharpen often. I quit doing that when I got my ML. It's a smart move in checking out what you need before investing too much on wrong tools. Sorry, I can't help beyond this.But, there are several guys here that, might be familiar with your set up and, can give you better advice than I. Good luck!


----------



## Jim Burr (Apr 30, 2014)

Great video on Youtube from Steve about making a kitless pen on a wood lathe...but you've done your research and already know this


----------



## Alex D (Apr 30, 2014)

Thanks folks! I have watched Steve's great video several times and it is in part what got me to thinking about this hybrid approach. 

He mentions the benefit of the accuracy of the metal lathe and while my set up won't be quite as accurate as a pure metal lathe, I'm hoping it will be more accurate than me trying to do it just with a tool rest and wood tools.

I'm probably overthinking this whole thing, but the cross slide was a steal and I'm sure I can use it for delrin bushings and things of that sort as well.

The slide should be on my doorstep today so I'll get some photos up, hopefully tonight.

Basically, the setup will let me use traditional metal working tooling on the wood lathe.  I think Delta probably oversold the metalworking capacity of the underlying lathe when they originaly sold this stuff, but it seems like it is a good solution for the materials we use for penmaking.  I won't be doing any precision steel machining or anything like that.

Thanks!
Alex


----------



## Hendu3270 (Apr 30, 2014)

I do them on a wood lathe, (only done a handful so far). Just jump in! I made a pen for a rollerball refill and even one using a ballpoint refill. Turned a section, body and caps using basic everyday tap and dies to get my feet under me then picked up the tap and dies I actually needed. Your lathe set up sounds pretty cool. Post up a pic.


----------



## wwneko (Mar 28, 2015)

Let's bring this thread back alive.  Alex, did you take some pictures? how did your setup work?  anything you'd like to change?


----------



## Alex D (Mar 30, 2015)

Sorry folks, I didn't realize this one was back!

So to follow up on this, I was able to get everything up and running and made my very first kitless pens last month.  I will post pics of the pens in a bit, but they were a pair of bride and groom pens using Jonothan Brooks' custom cast blanks in their wedding colors.

The setup was my '40s Delta 1460 12 inch lathe with the optional (and difficult to find) cross slide.  I will post pics of the setup as well, but that won't be until later in the week.

I added a quick change tool post from little machine shop and their starter carbide tool set and boring bar set.

I have to say that I really liked the setup.  I was able to get very accurate cuts both internally and externally.  I am certain it could be done just as well only using wood tools, but I really like being able to sneak up on the precise dimension by specific increments.  I know that those with more experience than I can achieve those results only using wood tools, but I am not there yet!  Someday!

The only drawback I found was that I could not use the tailstock at all due to the size of the cross slide.  So what that meant is that due to the ID of my lathe spindle, I could not slide a 3/4 blank past the collett chuck (ie, the blank would not fit inside the hollow spindle).  This meant that I had several inches of blank sticking out the front of the collett.

The problem with that is that without any tail support and with that much blank sticking out, the blank would flex.

Sooooo, I am still working out a way to get the blank to a smaller dimension that will fit into the spindle so I can reduce the amount of the blank sticking out.  It may be as simple as roughing the diameter down between centers with wood chisels before mounting the cross slide and doing the delicate work.

After I do all the threading and critical dimension work, I take the cross slide off and shape the pens using my custom Rich Herrell mandrels!

All in all, I think it is a nice compromise.  I can probably do some very limited metal work with the cross slide, brass and aluminum, but not steel.  Delta definitely oversold the capability of these slides back in the day, but for pens, I think it is a great tool.

Oh, my lathe is powered by a 1hp 3 phase motor.  I use a variable frequency drive to convert my household single phase to 3 phase.  A side benefit to that is that I have a fully variable speed lathe, including reverse.

I have a batch of kit pens that I have to make, but after that, I'm going to do another run of kitless with the cross slide. I will take lots of pics and post them here.

Thanks!
Alex


----------

