# To ink or not to ink



## Texatdurango (Oct 6, 2009)

OK, let's talk about something and clear the air!  Up until now all I have ever heard is *"NEVER INK A NIB"* prior to selling it and that seems to be taken as gospel, at least around this forum since so many members tell the newbies that it is forbidden then they tell someone else and so on until EVERYONE is singing out of the same song book!  

BUT... The more I am around fountain pens and fountain pen users, the more I don't that is a good rule to follow and the more I think about it, it doesn't really make sense and I wonder where it got started.  

I hate to keep referring back to my recent pen show experience but it was a real eye opening experience and I had the good fortune to be bumper to bumper with some very savvy folks who shared a lot with me. 

I saw salespeople selling _brand new_ name brand pens for insane amounts of money and every table I saw there was a spot to dip a pen in a bottle ink and take it for a test drive!  I watched people try out a pen then grab another then lay it down and grab another... until they decided on which pen to buy, probably based on how they wrote.  

I watched as the salespeople cleaned the nibs then returned them to their boxes, put back on the display awaiting the next customer to come along.

So, do all these folks know something we don't?  Or do we know something they don't?

I'd love to hear some sound rationale either way not just "I've always heard..." or I thought....." so let's kick this around and see if we can all learn something here.


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## OKLAHOMAN (Oct 6, 2009)

George, let's take the term "INK YOUR PEN" and what it implies. Maybe we're talking about two different things. When I say never ink your pens I'm saying do not install a pump and fill it up before having a customer that wants the pen, so I guess that when we dip our pens we could be inking in someones understanding. Your experience at the show you said that they dipped the pens then cleaned them, in my way of understanding Inking a pen differs from dipping as when you install a pump you now have inked the entire feed, feed holder insides, nib and the potential customer now sees you having to take the pen completely apart to change nib,and ink.


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## DCBluesman (Oct 6, 2009)

If you are acquiring a pen as an investment and you believe the value will increase over time, you want a pristine pen which has never even been dipped.  Personally, I would never buy a pen without dipping and test driving the nib.  But, I buy pens to use.


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## PTJeff (Oct 6, 2009)

I agree with Roy.  
I believe the phrase has matured over time, but has been taken out of context.  "Never ink your pen", to me, refers to never putting an ink cartrige in a pen you have just finished.  Much the same way I never put a rollerball into one of those that i make.  the ink will foul the FB and dry out in the RB.

I agree with Lou as well.  
When a "collector" is looking at a pen as an investment, they usually are referring to a vintage pen, and whether it has been inked.  Those seem to have a greater value.

So in a nutshell, inking is good and bad, depending on what context you are referring to.  I have always inked/dipped a FP for the person who will potentially purchase it, have them test drive a few lines, and adjust as needed.  But I don't have any personal experience of making a pen that is considered "vintage" and more valuable in pristine condition.  I'm striving for that on a daily basis, but for now I also make pens to be used.


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## wood-of-1kind (Oct 6, 2009)

"dip" vs. "load". I allow a "dip" to try it out, but allow for "load" when the FP is sold.


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## Chief Hill (Oct 6, 2009)

wood-of-1kind said:


> "dip" vs. "load". I allow a "dip" to try it out, but allow for "load" when the FP is sold.


 

Exactly what I do. I never put on the pump / disposable cartrage at all I  do it after its sold if the buyer requestst it.  

Then give instructions how care and cleaning.


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## bitshird (Oct 6, 2009)

Chief Hill said:


> Exactly what I do. I never put on the pump / disposable cartrage at all I  do it after its sold if the buyer requestst it.
> 
> Then give instructions how care and cleaning.



Same for me, and I NEVER give a customer the garbage ink that comes with the kit, but I also dislike having to clean a dipped nib and feed, I keep a jar of water with a bit of Ammonia under the table, that works pretty well for rinsing it off.


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## DurocShark (Oct 11, 2009)

Can you guys share what your instructions look like?


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## Texatdurango (Oct 11, 2009)

DurocShark said:


> Can you guys share what your instructions look like?


 
What Instructions?


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## DurocShark (Oct 11, 2009)

The care and feeding instructions mentioned a few posts above.


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## PR_Princess (Oct 11, 2009)

bitshird said:


> Same for me, and I NEVER give a customer the garbage ink that comes with the kit, but I also dislike having to clean a dipped nib and feed, I keep a jar of water with a bit of Ammonia under the table, that works pretty well for rinsing it off.



Ok I got to ask. I deal with platers, (specifically gold platers) a fair amount as I get stained glass gift-ware gold plated. I have been told by these platers not to use products that contain ammonia to clean the glassware as, overtime, it will damage the plating. 

Would not the same be true for a gold plated nib?


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## RAdams (Oct 12, 2009)

I think your glassware would probably last alot longer than a nib, therefore you would need to be more careful in how you care for it. It is my understanding (especially with plated nibs) that the nib itself is a fairly disposable piece. 


I don't ink my fountains at all. I don't even offer dip ink for the test drive. I tell them to write with a dry nib, and I try to use this as a selling point on two levels. First, When they start writing with the dry nib, I say "Now imagine it with silky smooth high quality ink." Then Of course i use the "You will be the first person to write with this pen inked up." If they just have to write with an inked pen, I offer one of my own pens. So far, this has worked well for me.


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## Exotichardwoodpens (Oct 12, 2009)

RAdams said:


> I don't ink my fountains at all. I don't even offer dip ink for the test drive. I tell them to write with a dry nib, and I try to use this as a selling point on two levels. First, When they start writing with the dry nib, I say "Now imagine it with silky smooth high quality ink." Then Of course i use the "You will be the first person to write with this pen inked up." If they just have to write with an inked pen, I offer one of my own pens. So far, this has worked well for me.


 

I always keep a bottle of ink and let them dip it and try it out and I keep a pad of Rhodia paper for them to use.As for letting them write with a dry nib it is totally meaningless without ink. I personally use a fountain pen daily and would not purchase one without testing the nib first .


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## DCBluesman (Oct 12, 2009)

PR_Princess said:


> Ok I got to ask. I deal with platers, (specifically gold platers) a fair amount as I get stained glass gift-ware gold plated. I have been told by these platers not to use products that contain ammonia to clean the glassware as, overtime, it will damage the plating.
> 
> Would not the same be true for a gold plated nib?


 
Pure gold will not corrode under normal conditions. However, it is very soft, so most 'gold' objects contain other metals such as copper and silver. These can corrode and discolour the surface of the gold. *Any chemical treatment should be left to a specialist.*

Clear, luke-warm water should be sufficient to clean nibs and feeds.


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## Texatdurango (Oct 12, 2009)

Last week I sold two fountain pens from my website and in both cases I contacted the new customers and asked if they were fine with me inking and testing the nibs prior to shipping and both replied yes and both indicated their appreciation for me  caring enough to ask.

I am NOT a nib meister by any stretch but have been around fountain nibs enough to know that every nib won't write well right out of the box!  There is always the chance that they have been mishandled.  I make sure by testing them that they will at least write without that scratchy feel and I think the tine alignment is probably the most common cause of this.  That's just my opinion, nothing proven.


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## skiprat (Oct 12, 2009)

What I know about fountain pens could easily fit on the back of a postage stamp, but I just don't get it....
Is it really impossible to PROPERLY clean all the parts so that once re-assembled, the next person to see it would *never* know it had been inked before? I don't care if the nib has the Dayacom or the Crown Jewels stamp on it, I wouldn't buy it without trying it and wouldn't expect a customer to either.
I don't know if *I'd* be able to take a 'practice run' with a dry nib either, I think my instinct would automatically make me press harder to make the non existing ink flow. 
Is it possible to get the little ink throw-away cartridges with decent enough ink in it that will at least save inking up a nice convertor? 

Jeesh, no wonder BIC make so much money!!!!  

And using Ammonia or other chemicals????  What the heck is that all about???  If the damned things can't be cleaned with soapy water then I'll just stick to good old ballpoints:biggrin:

...end of rant:biggrin:


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## DCBluesman (Oct 12, 2009)

skiprat said:


> I don't care if the nib has the Dayacom *or the Crown Jewels* stamp on it, I wouldn't buy it without trying it and wouldn't expect a customer to either.


 
Wouldn't that annoy Prince Charles?


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## skiprat (Oct 12, 2009)

DCBluesman said:


> Wouldn't that annoy Prince Charles?



That prat hasn't needed them since the dumdum traded Diana for the Horse:biggrin:


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## Texatdurango (Oct 12, 2009)

Here are some of my thoughts....in red



skiprat said:


> What I know about fountain pens could easily fit on the back of a postage stamp, but I just don't get it....
> Is it really impossible to PROPERLY clean all the parts so that once re-assembled, the next person to see it would *never* know it had been inked before? I don't care if the nib has the Dayacom or the Crown Jewels stamp on it, I wouldn't buy it without trying it and wouldn't expect a customer to either. I really doubt that if the nib were dipped in ink then washed off and dried with a towel that anyone could tell and* THAT* is part of my point to this whole thread... *WHO MADE UP THESE RULES?* It's looking like no one follows the rule since it doesn't make much sense, just another wives tale perhaps.
> 
> I don't know if *I'd* be able to take a 'practice run' with a dry nib either, I think my instinct would automatically make me press harder to make the non existing ink flow. "_Practice__ rub with a dry nib_"? I'm not following you on that one, doesn't make sense.
> ...


 
I wonder what the crown jewels logo would look like, a sideways figure 8 perhaps!


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## skiprat (Oct 12, 2009)

George, a few posts up Ron says he lets the potential customer use the pen without any ink.  ie; Dry Practice Ru*n*, :wink:   however, a Dry Practice Ru*b*  as you called it is something else entirely:biggrin:


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## DurocShark (Oct 12, 2009)

That acutally sounds kinda painful...


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## raltenhofen (Oct 13, 2009)

*Me Too Thanks*

This thread was quite timely. At my last show, a customer wanted a calligraphy nib replacement for one of my pens. Fortunately I had one. Then he wanted to try it, so, having read this thread, I offered him to dip the pen and try it. It took two dips but he got it going and the sale was made!

Thanks!


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## Texatdurango (Oct 13, 2009)

raltenhofen said:


> This thread was quite timely. At my last show, a customer wanted a calligraphy nib replacement for one of my pens. Fortunately I had one. Then he wanted to try it, so, having read this thread, I offered him to dip the pen and try it. It took two dips but he got it going and the sale was made!
> 
> Thanks!


 Don't you love it when a plan comes together? :biggrin:

Now....... Where did you find calligraphy nibs that fit the feeds in our kit pens, or precicely which kit?


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## raltenhofen (Oct 14, 2009)

*Calligraphy Nib*

Our friends at Craft Supply have everything you need. At least they used to. Have not checked lately.


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## glycerine (Oct 16, 2009)

raltenhofen said:


> Our friends at Craft Supply have everything you need. At least they used to. Have not checked lately.


 
Cool, I was wondering the same thing...


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## Jgrden (Oct 24, 2009)

Tex. I think it depends onthe event. Sophisticated people will try the pen.


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