# Win 10 upgrade



## Lenny (Jul 12, 2015)

Knowing there are many tech savvy people on this forum I thought I would ask for some advice. I currently have an older i7 desktop with a Win 7 pro 64 bit for refurbished PC license.
Win 10 will soon be available as a free update (July 29)
I want to install a new ssd drive and would like to do a fresh install of win 10 when I install it. I have heard once the update is available it will have an option to create a ISO file to do this. 
I'm worried I could mess up my license if I do this in the wrong order. It sure would be nice to have an uncluttered install though.
Thoughts or recommendations appreciated.


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## Rick_G (Jul 12, 2015)

I subscribe to a "Windows Secrets" newsletter and they had an article on the update.  I didn't notice anything about an ISO file but they did list a bunch of pro's and con's for the update.  It's supposed to be available free for a year after launch so I will likely wait a few months before installing it.  Here's a link to the article if interested.

What you should know about the Win10 launch


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## mecompco (Jul 13, 2015)

Hi Lenny, how are things in Searsport? We're headed to the coast this week, but a little further down from you. Have you used Win 8/10? I've messed around a bit with the pre-release 10 at work (School District IT) and it seems OK. However, the ONLY reason I would install it would be to get rid of a Windows 8 install. Really, 7 just works so well, I just can't see why one would want to abandon it for 10 (and going to x.0 of any OS is generally not the best idea, anyway). 

Also, if you follow the Win 10 news, M$'s plan seems to be to support 10 for free for a given period of time (which changes), then start charging for continued support (and operation, one wonders).

I do applaud your going to a SSD--they are so fast and boot up in seconds. Depending upon what you have now, some more RAM probably wouldn't hurt, either. Really, there is nothing wrong with a slightly vintage i7 core machine. Of course, once you get the new HD in, I'm sure you'll load anti-virus and anti-malware programs to keep the crap off it.

Sorry for not answering your question, but I do hope your upgrade goes smoothly. If you run into issues, feel free to shoot me a PM.

Regards,
Michael


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## mike4066 (Jul 13, 2015)

Lenny,

Microsoft has stated that once you do the upgrade you are able to re-install on that device.   Windows 10 Upgrade Users Can Clean Reinstall At Any Time | Digital Trends

I'd suggest taking out your current drive, putting in the new SSD and doing a new install of Windows 7 SP1(you have to be running SP1 for the upgrade), register it and then upgrade the OS. (Leaving you old drive/os completely intact if something won't work with the new install/upgrade.)


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## Lenny (Jul 13, 2015)

mike4066 said:


> Lenny,
> 
> Microsoft has stated that once you do the upgrade you are able to re-install on that device.   Windows 10 Upgrade Users Can Clean Reinstall At Any Time | Digital Trends
> 
> I'd suggest taking out your current drive, putting in the new SSD and doing a new install of Windows 7 SP1(you have to be running SP1 for the upgrade), register it and then upgrade the OS. (Leaving you old drive/os completely intact if something won't work with the new install/upgrade.)



My problem with that is the computer store I purchased from installs the OS under a license for "Refurbished PC's".  I don't have a copy of Win 7 Pro and it is my understanding it has to be specifically for "refurbished pc's". Perhaps I will use the migration software to move my current files to the new SSD drive and pull out the old drive for safe keeping until such time as Win 10 comes out. That way I can always swap back or try a "new" install on the ssd and if it goes wrong I can revert to the old drive.
Does that make any sense?


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## mecompco (Jul 13, 2015)

Some thoughts--you can find the Win 7 iso for download (M$ used to let you download it directly). There are instructions on the web to make it "non-version specific". Or, you could use something like Clonezilla to pull an image from your existing machine and copy it to the SSD. Another alternative would be to (shudder) buy a new Win 7 license (I see 7 Pro for Refurbs is $55 on Amazon). I have other options we could discuss via PM.

Regards,
Michael

PS Did you obtain the machine locally? You paid for the license, it would be worth asking them to burn the media for you (for a "reload" of that particular machine, of course, as I'm pretty sure those licenses are not transferable).


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## Lenny (Jul 13, 2015)

Yes, I bought it locally, PC's for MAINE | PCs for MAINE           I could ask them about a disc ... I think I did when I bought it. Their response at the time was "if you have any trouble we can help you with it" .... I took that to mean "for a fee" .... I was able to find my product ID but without a disc I'm not sure it will do any good.


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## mecompco (Jul 13, 2015)

Lenny said:


> Yes, I bought it locally, PC's for MAINE | PCs for MAINE           I could ask them about a disc ... I think I did when I bought it. Their response at the time was "if you have any trouble we can help you with it" .... I took that to mean "for a fee" .... I was able to find my product ID but without a disc I'm not sure it will do any good.



Might be worth a phone call to see what they would nick you to burn a .10 DVD. Or, give this a try:

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-recovery


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## Lenny (Aug 1, 2015)

From what I have been able to find out, it appears as part of the free update you will also get a new product key. Once you have successfully updated you should be able to do a fresh install by downloading an iso installation to a usb drive (4GB min) or burning the iso to cd. 
I think I will give that a try once the update is ready. ( in my case it hasn't become available YET via Windows update. 
Thanks for your help!


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## Lenny (Aug 2, 2015)

After looking up an error code and following the instructions to fix it, I was able to upgrade to Win 10 using Windows update. I now have installed the ssd drive and using the Microsoft tools created a usb boot drive to do a clean install on the new drive. I actually had to redo it again as I had failed to set the drive to AHCI mode in the bios the first time. Now everything seems good. Win 10 is much better than win8 which I refused to use. For me it's worth it just to have the ability (now) to do a clean install at any time.


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## tbroye (Aug 2, 2015)

I am trying to update my Dell computer to Win 10  Hasn't been updated since I got my Mac.  Having trouble downloading and installing all updates  seems to produce error when installing IE 11(where did that come from).  It seem every time we check for updates there are more.  From what I have to able to find out you have to have all the updates to install Win 10.  Maybe all the Hassle is because I went to Apple and now the Minions are playing games. Its times like this when I remember why I did what did.  I have my 14 Grandson her for a couple of week He will fix it.


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## mike4066 (Aug 2, 2015)

tbroye said:


> I am trying to update my Dell computer to Win 10  Hasn't been updated since I got my Mac.  Having trouble downloading and installing all updates  seems to produce error when installing IE 11(where did that come from).  It seem every time we check for updates there are more.  From what I have to able to find out you have to have all the updates to install Win 10.  Maybe all the Hassle is because I went to Apple and now the Minions are playing games. Its times like this when I remember why I did what did.  I have my 14 Grandson her for a couple of week He will fix it.



If you had any other version of IE older than 11 it has to be updated before the Windows 10 upgrade can run.  Internet explorer as a product is almost 20 years old and IE 11 is the last version that MS will product. Going forward Microsoft has created a browser for the "Modern Web" called Microsoft Edge that won't carry any of the old Internet Explorer junk from years ago. 

As for the OS upgrade. You have be running the latest version of Windows 7 SP1  or 8.1 (update).  It's the starting point for the upgrade to make sure its a consistent process across the millions of PC's that are going to get upgraded.


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## tbroye (Aug 2, 2015)

The problem Window update would quit installing 11 saying there was an error. Finally went to MS site and downloaded and installed it that way.  I am downloading Win !0 now 57% complete.  Even after I installed IE 11 and ran Window update it couldn't install IE11 would throw an error message.  We shall see what happens.


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## tbroye (Aug 2, 2015)

11;15 am PDT up and running Haven't messed with yet.  Visiting Grandson want to play his game with buddy back in Idaho


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## monophoto (Aug 2, 2015)

Where I worked we had two policies regarding upgrades to Windows:
1.  Never install a new version of Windows until after Microsoft has introduced its replacement.  New software always has problems - by waiting for the next release of that new software, you allow the publisher to solve many of the initial problems.
2.  Whenever possible, only install versions of Windows that were introduced to replace notoriously bad versions of Windows.  For example, Windows Vista was awful - so when Windows 7 was introduced, it mainly served to fix the problems in Windows Vista, not introduce new features that would proved to be flawed.  Likewise, Windows 8 was a disaster, while 8.1 was clearly an improvement.  Now, what does that say about Windows 10?


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## tbroye (Aug 2, 2015)

Once I got 2 + years of updates installed and IE 11 istalled.  Win 10 downloaded and installed with no problem.  Just in the few minuest I was working with befor Grandson took over Computer it has a different look and feel that 7.  As this isn't my main computer it will give me somthing to play with before I up grad my wife's computer, if she want it.  My main computer is an iMac that talkts to my phone and iPad.  I will go thought and do some clean on the 10 box as there is a lot of junk on it.  Might even put 10 on a dvd and then do a clean install later.


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## Lenny (Aug 2, 2015)

Just be sure to use ProduKey to retrieve your new Product Key.  With the Win 10 update you get a new key and you will need it to do a clean install. Doing it with a usb drive is supposedly even faster than from a cd.


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## mike4066 (Aug 3, 2015)

monophoto said:


> Where I worked we had two policies regarding upgrades to Windows:
> 1.  Never install a new version of Windows until after Microsoft has introduced its replacement.  New software always has problems - by waiting for the next release of that new software, you allow the publisher to solve many of the initial problems.
> 2.  Whenever possible, only install versions of Windows that were introduced to replace notoriously bad versions of Windows.  For example, Windows Vista was awful - so when Windows 7 was introduced, it mainly served to fix the problems in Windows Vista, not introduce new features that would proved to be flawed.  Likewise, Windows 8 was a disaster, while 8.1 was clearly an improvement.  Now, what does that say about Windows 10?



1)   The  primary reason software that ran fine in XP had problems running in Windows 7 was because publishers weren't following the security guidelines that Microsoft had been publishing. I.E. don't let users write to the root of C:\ or the C:\windows folder, or to HKey_Local_Machine.  Those guidelines were published in XP, but actually enforced in Windows Vista (hence all the problems experienced). Software vendors who didn't follow security guidelines had problems, but the visibility fell on Microsoft. Which is why running things as an administrator seemed to "fix" the problem, because it was bypassing security layers, but is a horrible practice.  There are shims and other things for compatibility. 

I say that last piece because Microsoft has stated that if it works on Windows 7/8 then it will work on 10. They put a resources into software (application) compatibility to support that claim. The upgrades I've done of basic software sets have been successful. 


2) They are going to be waiting a long time for the next version of Windows. Windows 10 is the last version.  Windows 10 is now "Software as a service" meaning future enhancements will be delivered through Windows Updates automatically and not through major product updates/revisions.  Similar to how your phone updates automatically. 

What does that say about Windows 10?  People hated the start button/bar when Windows 95 came out. People hated the touch screen interface in 8, and 8.1 brought back the start button.  I've you've used Windows 8 on a tablet/touch device then you understand why the touch/modern interface is necessary.    Windows 10 detect how its being used and adapts to suit your needs.  If you have a tablet, then you get the modern touch enabled interface, but if you dock the tablet then you'll get a desktop with a start menu. 

I could go on but i've got to stop, feel like i'm getting defensive of Windows 10 and that's not what this thread is for. If anyone is still has questions pm me or we can start a new thread.


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## tbroye (Aug 3, 2015)

LENNY

Where to you find the Product Key.  It hasn' asked for it yeat but if and when I do a clean install would like to have it handy.  After Grandson goes back to Boise next week I will take a indepth look at Winn !10.  Don't want to mess up his game by accident.


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## Band Saw Box (Aug 3, 2015)

*Wont be turning for a while*

I requested the download but I'm not sure I want to do the upgrade.


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## tbroye (Aug 4, 2015)

Didn't need the Product key evidently because Win 7 came preloaded on Computer.  So far I like it, Not enough to switch back to a Windows Box, like my Mac and Yosemite better.  I wlll keep it and play with it and learn what I can do as my Wife won't switch the a Mac.  So sometime in the future I will upgrade hers to Win 10.  Will also upgrade our laptops.


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## mike4066 (Aug 4, 2015)

tbroye said:


> Didn't need the Product key evidently because Win 7 came preloaded on Computer.  So far I like it, Not enough to switch back to a Windows Box, like my Mac and Yosemite better.  I wlll keep it and play with it and learn what I can do as my Wife won't switch the a Mac.  So sometime in the future I will upgrade hers to Win 10.  Will also upgrade our laptops.



Correct, the upgrade does not require a product key and future installs should be able to use the original win 7 product key for re-installs.  You won't need to load windows 7, then upgrade to 10.


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## Lenny (Aug 4, 2015)

tbroye, ProduKey is a program you can use to find your Windows Product Key

ProduKey - Free download and software reviews - CNET Download.com

Band Saw Box, you don't have to do it right away. It will still be free for sometime and you can download it an wait to install it.


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## Lenny (Aug 4, 2015)

tbroye said:


> Didn't need the Product key evidently because Win 7 came preloaded on Computer.  So far I like it, Not enough to switch back to a Windows Box, like my Mac and Yosemite better.  I wlll keep it and play with it and learn what I can do as my Wife won't switch the a Mac.  So sometime in the future I will upgrade hers to Win 10.  Will also upgrade our laptops.



I only mentioned using ProduKey (for getting your new Key after installing Win 10 through Windows update) should you want to do a new install on a different drive. I was installing a new ssd drive (will eventually format my old one for use as a second drive). 
Just letting Windows update do the installation of Win 10 is the best and easiest way.


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## Lenny (Aug 4, 2015)

[QUOTE
Correct, the upgrade does not require a product key and future installs should be able to use the original win 7 product key for re-installs.  You won't need to load windows 7, then upgrade to 10.[/QUOTE]

Not so sure this is true. Win 10 generates a new Product Key. So if you ever plan to reinstall, it would be a good idea to find it and write it down somewhere.


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## thrustmonkey (Aug 4, 2015)

*Don't Know If I'll Upgrade*

I don't know If I'll upgrade from Win. 7. I'm pretty happy with it. My mother (she's 88) wanted a new laptop, so she got alaptop with Win. 8 on it and couldn't do a thing with it. Her old one had Win. 7.

I tried to register it for her, set up her e-mail and get everything going for her, and I could only get half way through it and couldn't figure out how to do any thing. Had to call the neighbors kid over to help. And I've been messing with home computers since the most ram you could get was 4k, there was no such thing as an on board modem (I made my own), I was running Win. 3, and software came on a cassette tape. And we still can't do anything with her laptop.

I never did see what was so good about Win. 8, and I haven't heard anything about what's so good about Win. 10. I don't know anything about Macs, but I'm thinking I might be forced to switch.

Ross


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## sbwertz (Aug 5, 2015)

Please read this article...print it out....before doing a win 10 upgrade.  There are some SERIOUS privacy issues with win 10...for example, by default, it shares your router password with all your contacts, including facebook!

Windows 10 privacy problems: Here&rsquo;s how bad they are, and how to plug them.


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## mike4066 (Aug 5, 2015)

sbwertz said:


> Please read this article...print it out....before doing a win 10 upgrade.  There are some SERIOUS privacy issues with win 10...for example, by default, it shares your router password with all your contacts, including facebook!
> 
> Windows 10 privacy problems: Here&rsquo;s how bad they are, and how to plug them.



The first statement is about Wifi password is wrong. It's not a default setting. Yes you can share wifi connections with your contacts, but you have to enable that feature.  You have to select the connection, enter the wifi password, and select a set of contacts for sharing.  Its not something that happens by default with all of your contacts.  It also encrypts the data that gets sent, so the password isn't revealed.   

Windows 10's Wi-Fi Sense is not a security risk. Here's why | ZDNet

All of that "Microsoft account" saving my settings, seeing my search history/contacts.  Guess what google already has https://history.google.com/history/ . What do you think Apple does with the account your using on your iPhone/iMac? You get a new iPhone and all your stuff comes back down from iCloud.  Your android phone? Same things... Sign in with a google account and see how much gets setup/configure based on what you were already using.  

Slate isn't a tech based website, there are better sources for IT news..

But for those worried about it...
â€‹How to secure Windows 10: The paranoid's guide | ZDNet


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## wolftat (Aug 5, 2015)

I was issued a new laptop with Windows 10 on it, I played with it for a couple of days and put it on top of my Window 8 laptop. This is being posted using my Windows 7 laptop. Maybe I'm just too old for the changes but 10 seems to be slow and a lot of the features don't seem to be working on mine. I'll stick with 7 for now.


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## Lenny (Aug 6, 2015)

Sticking with 7 is not a bad idea, however if you are one of the unlucky few STUCK with Win 8, I think you will be happier with 10.

My motivation wasn't to get away from Win 7 which I was very happy with, it was more the opportunity to be able to do a fresh install and have the media available to do so again in the future. 

Thanks again for the help and links. 
Sharon, I looked over and did make some changes based on the article you posted. Thank You!


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## SDB777 (Aug 6, 2015)

I hate being the 'beta tester' for all these 'free upgrades' of Windows.....drives me nutz!



Scott (I'm holding off) B


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## Band Saw Box (Aug 8, 2015)

Ok If I switch to windows 10 and did like it can I go back to windows 7 and if so is there a time limit and how hard is it to do


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## mecompco (Aug 8, 2015)

Band Saw Box said:


> Ok If I switch to windows 10 and did like it can I go back to windows 7 and if so is there a time limit and how hard is it to do



One of my clients called me yesterday looking for video card drivers for the machine I got for him. He upgraded from 8.1 to 10, then tried to uninstall. It ended up hosing Windows entirely, forcing a total re-load. He is a software developer.

IDK if there is a time limit, but really, I can think of no good reason to move from 7 to 10. From 8.1 to 10, perhaps, but 7 just works so well. 

If you read some of the articles about the privacy issues of 10 and Micro$oft's business model for it, there are many concerns. 

Just MHO.

Regards,
Michael


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## Akula (Aug 8, 2015)

privacy issues

I see this come up often on sites.  Sure, everyone needs to be aware of security and privacy.  That said, if you do anything online and I don't care what browser you use or what computer system (linux, apple, windows, unix ect) everything you do is seen and retained by someone some place.  There are things you can do to limit your exposure and many articles and books have been written on the topic.

People and business want to either sell you something or sell your information to someone/ business that wants to sell you something.  Heck, I would venture to say many or most on this very site wants to sell some product.  Everyone has TOS and few bother to read pages of legal speak.  That is far from malicious, it's for their protection.  Now if your online habits are questionable, then you have a higher risk.

Practice safe hex


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## Lenny (Aug 8, 2015)

It is very easy to go back should you decide to. A friend contacted me saying she had upgraded to 10 (from what version I don't know) and couldn't find her favorites. While I told her it's very easy to import your favorites, she just wanted to return to what was familiar. So she did, easy peasy. 
Not sure how long the free update will be but pretty sure it's for several months. There had been speculation that your "free" upgrade would eventually expire and then you would have to pay. That's not true, at least for those who have installed it before the time period ends.


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## Kragax (Aug 9, 2015)

Funny, My wife has Win 7 on her desktop and I hate it can't get it to do anything. I have windows 8.1 on my laptop and I like it. Go figure. All a matter of choices and what works for you. Not going to 10.


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## Lenny (Aug 10, 2015)

Kragax said:


> Funny, My wife has Win 7 on her desktop and I hate it can't get it to do anything. I have windows 8.1 on my laptop and I like it. Go figure. All a matter of choices and what works for you. Not going to 10.



That IS interesting! I guess it's kind of like pen finishes, .... whatever works for you. 

Curious, was Win 8.1 your first operating system?


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## tbroye (Aug 20, 2015)

Down loaded Win 10 to a USB drive this morning so I can install it on Wife's windows box later and also if I decided to do a clean install on mine.  I have an Clickfree back up drive and was able to plug it in, have it recognized and was able to back up the computer.  So far I am pleased.  I haven't really got into it to far but so far everything is fine will look into the privacy issues as we go along with the learning curve.


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## Kragax (Aug 20, 2015)

Lenny said:


> Kragax said:
> 
> 
> > Funny, My wife has Win 7 on her desktop and I hate it can't get it to do anything. I have windows 8.1 on my laptop and I like it. Go figure. All a matter of choices and what works for you. Not going to 10.
> ...



Win 8 was the original on this machine. Took to 8.1. I never wanted to leave win95 but have been through them all. Heck I used to use DOS.


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## sbwertz (Aug 20, 2015)

Kragax said:


> Lenny said:
> 
> 
> > Kragax said:
> ...



HaHa.  I started on CP/M.  DOS about drove me nuts because the copy command worked backwards from CP/M!  I copied the old file over the new file more times than I can count when I first went to DOS.  (And of course there were no hard drives...just floppies, which were a great improvement over tape drives!)  

I had Win 3.1 and loved it.  First real GUI interface.  It was not an operating system...it ran under DOS. (Well that isn't entirely true...I used GEM before Win 3.1.  I did some pretty incredible things with Ventura Publisher with GEM and DOS.  It was a lot easier than Perfect Writer!)  

I had an ME system, for my sins, but I learned my lesson and skipped Vista and Win8 entirely.

On Win 10.  I recommend waiting a month or so for some of the bugs to shake out.  If you have 7, I would wait SEVERAL months.  If you have 8 the temptation is to switch immediately...I understand!  But I generally don't recommend adopting a new operating system...ANY OS in the first three months after release...you are just glorified beta testers if you do.

I've had my own computer consulting business since 1982.


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## Skie_M (Aug 20, 2015)

I'ld also like to recommend people hold off on the "new omg shiny!" bandwagon for a while.  WIN10 is actually Windows Vista with a few visual upgrades and some security upgrades here and there.  They are SLOWLY giving us back our control over the system we had back in Windows XP.


Windows 3.1 was the best stable version for taking over from DOS

Windows 95 was version 4.0

Windows 98 was actually more of an add-on expansion to Win95... call it version 4.5

Windows XP was version 5.0, combining many of the aspects of Windows 98 and Windows Pro

Windows Vista is version 6.0, which is hated due to the many bugs it had and the security lockout that prevented users from doing things they used to do easily under all the previous operating systems, like changing file attributes or creating text files.

Windows 7 is version 6.2.  This version added much of the functionality of Windows XP back into the mix ... it's a cross between XP and Vista.  After the beta testing was done, the stability of this operating system was excellent.

Windows 8 is a revamped version of Windows 7 with Media Center upgrades up front.  It is version 6.4 internally (Vista).  It has basically all the same features that Windows 7 touts, but with software and apps in a smartphone styled interface for snagging users who are used to using phones, but not computers.  (I hate that crap, my start screen goes straight to the classic windows desktop.)

Windows 10 (they skipped 9 due to programming issues ... a software op sys check for a win9x system would accidentally flag Win9 as compatible even if it isn't.) is yet again another face-lift for Windows Vista.  Internally, it is version 6.7.  New feature .... upgrading to it is FREE if you have Windows 8.


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