# Wild Idea - Name Change



## jeff (Apr 29, 2008)

Hey all... I have been thinking about something for a long time and I wanted to run it by you for comments. 

I've noticed increased use of the terms "pen making" and "pen makers" rather than "pen turning" or "pen turners". Literature also uses the "making" variation more often than not. Although the turning is a big part of the equation, I think that "pen making" is possibly more descriptive of what we do.

So, what do you all think about a name change for the IAP?

What about the "*International Association of Pen Makers*"

A few thoughts to seed the discussion...

I own the domain penmakers.org (and it has always redirected here) 

Our acronym IAP would not have to change (although there's that dangling "M" we'd need to ignore...or use one word "Penmakers")

The logo would need to be modified, but we could either modify the existing logo, or go nuts and have a logo contest.

Any and all comments, positive, negative, or neutral are welcome!


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## Draken (Apr 29, 2008)

Would that make my current turning smock with the current IAP logo a collectible? [}]  Seems to me it is just a matter of semantics, and we'll probably be called different things at different times.  I personally feel the current IAP brand is well established, and changing the name may cause some loss of momentum.  I'd suggest that as long as the kit users out number the custom pen creators, we should stay "Pen Turners" and change once/if the tide shifts over to the custom "Pen Makers".


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## JayDevin (Apr 29, 2008)

if it aint broke......
I say leave it as it is.


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## redfishsc (Apr 29, 2008)

I'm for it. I tell people I "make" custom fountain and ballpoint pens, not "turn" them. 

People usually come close to choking when they see the awesome pens, and only when they ask me how I do it that I do not say I "turn" them on the lathe. I say that I "machine it" on the lathe or "carve" with the lathe. 

"Turn" isn't a verb that evokes a sense of "action" or "artistry". Machine and carve do. If a person were to watch what we do, they would not naturally say "he is turning wood"-- they might say carving, machining, or who knows what else. 

Use words that evoke a mental image. Learn to choose your words carefully (and spell them rite). Hey, preaching class is paying off in places other than the pulpit!


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## cowchaser (Apr 29, 2008)

Bic is a pen maker. Mine don't look like theirs because I turn them myself. Just my thought though.


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## MesquiteMan (Apr 29, 2008)

LEAVE IT ALONE!  We turn pens, all of us.  If you start casting pens insted of turnig them, then you are a pen maker.  Otherwise, all pens on this fourm are "turned"!


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## PaulDoug (Apr 29, 2008)

Ok how about pen crafters?


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## Woodlvr (Apr 29, 2008)

I agree with Jay. I recall someone here mentionging that we turn pens NOT make  them.
JMHO.


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## LEAP (Apr 29, 2008)

I'm with Curtis on this. I may be wrong but think everybody here is using a lathe of some sort to turn their pens. Besides this is not a marketing site it is a gathering of crafts people with a common interest. I think you got it right the first time Jeff and if it aint broke dont fix it.


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## maxwell_smart007 (Apr 30, 2008)

I will always think of this place as the Penturning forum...so that's my two cents...


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## DocStram (Apr 30, 2008)

I ran a Google search and had the following results:
                          Hits         Term

                       490,000  for pen making
                         87,100 for penmaking
                       341,000  for pen turning
                          6,770 for penturning 

I'm not certain if the number of hits should be a factor in determining a name change.  I just did it out of curiosity. 

The term "turners" or even "turning" isn't readily understood by many people in the USA, especially younger people.  Sadly, many of my university students have no idea what a lathe is or even looks like.  Thus, the phrase "penturning" isn't readily understood by the lay public. On the other hand, "penmaking" sounds a little less mysterious or romantic. 

Frankly,I prefer the term artisan .... as in "Pen Artisans". I'm certain I'm in the minority on that descriptor.  

With all of this said, I could go along with changing our name to the International Association of Penmakers.


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## Ligget (Apr 30, 2008)

Keep it as it is!


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## redfishsc (Apr 30, 2008)

> _Originally posted by DocStram_
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I think Doc spelled that one out pretty well. I tell people I like to do wood turnings and get that glazed-over look (you know, the look YOU give people when they are telling you about something you do NOT understand but you are going to act like you know JUST what they are talking about). 

So then I tell them I carve bowls and pens on a machine.

OH!

Then the barrage of questions come, which I am quite happy to answer.


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## wdcav1952 (Apr 30, 2008)

> _Originally posted by redfishsc_
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> I'm for it. I tell people I "make" custom fountain and ballpoint pens, not "turn" them.
> 
> ...



Wait a minute, preachers as salesmen!?  Now that is an image for you!!


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## rherrell (Apr 30, 2008)

If you're gonna change then I'm with Paul, PENCRAFTERS.[8D]


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## kent4Him (Apr 30, 2008)

I think telling people that I am going to turn some pens opens up an opportunity to talk about turning.  Since I turn more than just pens, I consider myself a wood turner, not a wood maker.  I also think that if what we did was not on the lathe, most of us wouldn't enjoy doing it.  Keep it as it is.


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## altaciii (Apr 30, 2008)

When I happened on the site, I was on a quest for _penturners_ not makers.  What we do is turn materials on lathes. Lets keep it like it is.


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## redfishsc (Apr 30, 2008)

> _Originally posted by wdcav1952_
> 
> 
> 
> Wait a minute, preachers as salesmen!?  Now that is an image for you!!




Lol, no I don't sell Amway!

Now as far as preaching, if I can't climb into the pulpit and talk for 30-45 minutes about something that I am excited about and can talk about in interesting, powerful ways, then I have no business climbing into the pulpit.


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## Mudder (Apr 30, 2008)

I'm pretty much neutral, but leaning to the "Don't change it" side.


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## rincewind03060 (Apr 30, 2008)

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

This is an organization and a forum for the initiated not the general public. We know who we are. When we are presenting ourselves and what we do to a stranger (potential customer) we would have to explain what we do first, then list our credentials (number of years experience, memberships, etc.) afterward.

Every craft an profession has its jargon. Among ourselves we are penturners. Strangers will probably need an explanation regardless of the term used. Besides, we would want to hype the product (and ourselves) a bit. You might say something like, "I'm a penturner. I create unique handcrafted pens in natural and man-made materials using a lathe and a variety of other tools. I have been woodturning for 15 years and have been focusing on creating pens for the past 7 years. I have been a member of the International Association of Penturners for the last 5 years."

If a person already knows what you do, any term will work; if they don't know what you do, no term will work with out further explanation.


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## Ron in Drums PA (Apr 30, 2008)

I'll go with Bob " If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Imagine if Kraft changed their name to International Cheese Makers, I really don't think it would help thier business. 

But... It is an excellent idea having penmakers.org redirected to this site.

Edit in:

There is already a penmakers.com and a penmakers.net, changing to penmakers.org might cause some confusion.


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## fernhills (Apr 30, 2008)

> _Originally posted by wdcav1952_
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                   Rite,Right,, Huh!


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## TellicoTurning (Apr 30, 2008)

> _Originally posted by kent4Him_
> 
> I think telling people that I am going to turn some pens opens up an opportunity to talk about turning.  Since I turn more than just pens, I consider myself a wood turner, not a wood maker.  I also think that if what we did was not on the lathe, most of us wouldn't enjoy doing it.  Keep it as it is.



I vote keep it as is... Like Chris, I'm a wood *turner*.. pens are one of my products that I "turn" on my lathe.


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## Dario (Apr 30, 2008)

While the new suggested name will cover some who actually make pens without turning...I believe they are in minority (probably less than 1%?) and hopefully don't feel out casted with the current name.

I too believe it is better to leave the current name as it is.


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## Texatdurango (Apr 30, 2008)

Pen turner, Pen crafter, Pen artisan, Pen sculptor, Pen maker, what's in a name, some just sound fancier, I'd say leave it alone too.  

True, we could get carried away and come up with a hundred phrases for what we do or call ourselves but in the end we put things on a lathe and turn them.  In this case, those things are pens so pen turners sounds fine to me.


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## Russianwolf (Apr 30, 2008)

Don't change.

I don't make anything. I buy a kit and buy/find a piece of wood or other material. I modify the material by turning/carving, Then assemble everything. So what did I make?

Some who cast their own blanks are getting closer to the description, and Skiprat may be the one closest to the Penmaker Description.


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## redfishsc (Apr 30, 2008)

> _Originally posted by fernhills_
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Just using a bit of irony[)].



Even though I personally like the idea of using the term "pen crafters" or "pen makers", I'd have to say that by and large most folks here disapprove of the idea. Therefore, in the spirit of good ol' democracy (if such a thing exists) I'd say we leave it.


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## gerryr (Apr 30, 2008)

The only people I've encountered at shows who understand the term "pen turning" are other turners.  I quit using that term a long time ago so I didn't have to keep explaining what "turning" is.  I have yet to encounter anyone who really cares how I produce the pen, they only care what it looks like, how it feels in their hand and how it writes.  I don't understand what the hang-up is on using maker instead of turner.  What about saddle makers?  You can buy a saddle made by the thousands by a manufacturer or you can buy a custom saddle from a saddle maker.  How is that really different?  You can buy a pen made by a pen manufacturer or you can buy a custom pen from a pen maker/turner.


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## jeff (Apr 30, 2008)

Thanks for all the comments. I think we'll leave well enough alone!

penmakers.org and pencrafters.org have both redirected here for years.

Thanks for all the opinions!


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## Rifleman1776 (Apr 30, 2008)

Agreed, leave it alone. But, we could start a heated debate over the "dangling" 'T' for pen _*turners*_. []


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## opfoto (Apr 30, 2008)

I say leave it alone.


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## Jarheaded (Apr 30, 2008)

I'd rather not fall into the larger group of pen makers and remain a pen turner. That's what we do. Plus all the confusion that would go along with it, probably not worth it. But it is your call.


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## CrazyBear (Apr 30, 2008)

Hey...That means that I could say I was a pen maker..you know..like Mont Blanc, Watermans, Schaeffer etc.... On second thoughts I dont want to embarrass the little guys[}][}]..Lets stay as we are


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## Scott (Apr 30, 2008)

Hi Jeff!

I know you've already chimed in and said you won't change anything, but with my big mouth I wanted to say something!   

I have no problem with changing to a new name, OR with staying as we are.  I'm good either way.  But when people started saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" well, that just sets me off!  What that means to me is that this might be exactly the time to consider "fixing" it!

Let me give you a little history.  I once suggested a simple name change, and a number of people shouted me down, with the most common comment being "If it ain't broken, don't fix it!"  Shortly thereafter I got an E-Mail from a guy named Jeff Brown, and the IAP is the result!

Jeff is very aware of all the negative side effects that could come from a name change, but I know that if he is suggesting it, then a name-change might just be a very good idea!  Everybody should at least think about it!

OK, I'm off my soapbox now!   [:I]

Scott.


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## RussFairfield (Apr 30, 2008)

The word "Pencrafter" saw some use everal years ago. I still prefer "Pencrafter", but think I am the only one who uses that word.


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## Rojo22 (Apr 30, 2008)

I think we should call ourselves the Penmaking International Turning Artisans......No wait, that might not look good on the business cards.....


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## MarkHix (Apr 30, 2008)

I kinda like penmaker or pencrafter.  I frequently have to explain what turning is.  If the name change helps the site and the community grow, I am for it.  I "craft" several different things, some of them by turning.  The name is probably not as important to me as it is to some of you who do this for a living.  My 2 cents.  No refunds.


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## palmermethod (Apr 30, 2008)

Jeff, either or any are good with me. All would be a compliment to my meager efforts. [8D]


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## DocStram (Apr 30, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Scott_
> 
> 
> Let me give you a little history.  I once suggested a simple name change, and a number of people shouted me down, with the most common comment being "If it ain't broken, don't fix it!"  Shortly thereafter I got an E-Mail from a guy named Jeff Brown, and the IAP is the result!
> ...



I thought you told me that "Jeff Brown" was in your spam list??


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## redfishsc (Apr 30, 2008)

> _Originally posted by RussFairfield_
> 
> The word "Pencrafter" saw some use everal years ago. I still prefer "Pencrafter", but think I am the only one who uses that word.




After folks read your post, I can with confidence say "not for long you aren't the only one"


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## cowchaser (Apr 30, 2008)

> _Originally posted by redfishsc_
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I jump on the wagon first. After seeing a few explanations with Russ and Scott included. Pencrafters does sound pretty good. Penturners could still be used to redirect people to the site. Just my 2 cents. So I will change my vote to whatever those powers that be think is best.


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## Randy_ (May 1, 2008)

Just to add my 2Â¢, I think it is fine as it is; bum if a change were to be contemplated in the future, my vote would go to some variation of pencrafter.


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## alamocdc (May 1, 2008)

No, Russ, you are not the only one.


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## skiprat (May 1, 2008)

I don't really care either way, but I think that 'turning' is just one of the steps we use. As we progress, we add other steps too.
Sometimes a pen may not have any turned parts in it.

We often mix our own resins,
segment our woods
drill the holes
turn the blank
sand and finish the blank
assemble the pen.

When we start adding doing closed ended styles, threading, doing non-round shapes and actually designing and the hardware, then we are certainly pen makers.


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## maxwell_smart007 (May 1, 2008)

Coincidentally, I'm teaching Romeo and Juliet right now:
_What's in a name - that which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet!_
(My guess is that if it were called a Stink Flower, we might have a different opinion of roses, but her point is well taken!)  

The forum title won't change anything, but my preference is to keep the name the way it is...I found this site by typing pen turning into a web browswer...if it was pen makers emporium or some such, I wouldn't have stumbled across it!  And that would have been a shame...(O shame, where is thy blush?)


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## RussFairfield (May 1, 2008)

The name depends on the image we want to project. If what others think doesn't matter, then it is fine to leave it alone. If what others think matters to us, then we might want to consider a name change. 

Pwersonally, I think "Pencrafter" or "Penmaker" is a more descriptive expression of what we do. They are self-explanatory words. "Penturner" requires an explanation for most people. That is why I have chosen to call myself a "Pencrafter" of sorts, however, I have no problem with being a "Penmaker". 

It's the word "turner" that nobody understands. The larger world of woodturning has the same problem. Nobody knows what a "woodturner" is either, and there is no simple way to correct that.


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## redfishsc (May 1, 2008)

> _Originally posted by RussFairfield_
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> It's the word "turner" that nobody understands. The larger world of woodturning has the same problem. Nobody knows what a "woodturner" is either, and there is no simple way to correct that.



Right on. Many of my friends know a LOT more about automotive stuff than woodworking, and when they hear the word "turn" they immediately conjure up images of turning their brake rotors.


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## workinforwood (May 2, 2008)

I vote no change.


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## drayman (May 3, 2008)

jeff, sometimes when i say i am a member of i. a. penturners they think i twirl pens through my fingers. so i think penmakers is a good idea.


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## BigRob777 (May 9, 2008)

I'm for not changing it too.  I haven't seen a pen yet, except for the famous pickle pen, that wasn't turned.  Ditto on the "if it ain't broke...".
Respectfully submitted,
Rob


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## Malainse (May 9, 2008)

Just leave it....  We all were able to find our way here...


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## karlkuehn (May 9, 2008)

Figured I'd better chime in while I'm browsing and waiting for the table saw to cool down a little - Don't change it! I'll get lost and never find you guys again!

I can just see me clicking into my bookmark and ending up in a virtual ghost town complete with the cow skulls and tumbleweeds...

"Guys...? Hey guuuuyyyysss...hey, what was that noise?...YOU GUYS THIS AIN'T FUNNY NO MORE, C'MON OUT!"


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## ericw95 (May 9, 2008)

I am in favor of keeping it as is because it generates conversation to say you are a penturner.  I am always asked what is that, how do you do it, and how did you get into it?


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