# 110v lathe plugged into 220v



## Steven Baxter (Jan 26, 2017)

Brief synopsis, I live in Germany which has 220v power. I use a converter to power my lathe. It's a Jet 1014vsi. My friend accidently plugged the power into the wrong outlet on the power converter. It tripped the house breaker.

The lathe still turns on and runs. But it turns at only 1 speed and the dial for speed adjustment does nothing. It turns very fast now at that 1 speed. We took all the internals apart. No visual sign or smell that something got fried. It's a single phase motor

Any ideas on what to do?

I apologize if this question is in the wrong section


----------



## Ed McDonnell (Jan 26, 2017)

I would guess that one or more of the components on the controller circuit board are shot.  Replacing the controller board would make it an expensive mistake.  

If you have a friend with skills in repairing electronic equipment you could have them look at the controller board.  Maybe they could isolate the failed component and replace it for you.

Ed


----------



## Herb G (Jan 26, 2017)

Your friend smoked the computer board in the VS circuit.
Your only remedy is to contact Jet & buy a new circuit board.


----------



## KenV (Jan 26, 2017)

Steven

The vs modules in the US are 110 nominal.  Most/many of those rectifier boards can be set for either 110 or 220.   Unless you have the skills or the friends to fix the existing board, you get to purchase a replacement.  You have a really good shot at getting the 220 volt version (if still available).  The 1014 was discontinued in the US a number of years back.  I got mine on clearance 5+ years back.   

If you are stuck with rebuild, jumper it for 220.


----------



## jttheclockman (Jan 26, 2017)

Something does not sound right. You should never be able to plug a 120V device into a 220V outlet. The configuration is different. Even in Germany. Did someone change the plug end of the lathe and if so why???  You should have just bought the match from the states for the outlet and wired that accordingly. You need to make a change here so this does not happen again or some other safe guard. I hope you do not have things set up like this. I maybe missing something here. But does not sound right. Even if you bought the lathe over there the 2 power chords have to be different.  

I do agree with the others you probably fried a component in the circuit board and it was so quick you never smell it. It might be only the potentiameter but unless you have someone who knows what to look for do not mess with it. You can still adjust speeds with the belt.


----------



## PenPal (Jan 27, 2017)

Does it have an internal fuse?

Peter.


----------



## Kloss (Jan 27, 2017)

Living in Italy and USA this happened to me a lot of times with different appliances. Probably he plugged the lathe with just a plug adapter without power converter or it seems he has one of those universal multi voltage power converter with selectors. I would advice to get one with just one way converter without selectors/switches.
Actually I am surprised that the lathe is still turning on. Usually I completely fried the electronic components.


----------



## frank123 (Jan 27, 2017)

I'm not familiar with that controller but if the board uses MOSFET output transistors there's a good chance you blew the MOSFETs.  I think some other types of outputs have the same symptoms.

An easy and cheap fix for someone with basic electronic experience.  Essentially just identifying the parts (heat sink mounted and probably obvious) and de soldering, removing and replacing with the same or higher rated ones, and re soldering.  Any type of electronic repair shop should be able to do it for you if you lack skill yourself.


----------



## jttheclockman (Jan 27, 2017)

Kloss said:


> Living in Italy and USA this happened to me a lot of times with different appliances. Probably he plugged the lathe with just a plug adapter without power converter or it seems he has one of those universal multi voltage power converter with selectors. I would advice to get one with just one way converter without selectors/switches.
> Actually I am surprised that the lathe is still turning on. Usually I completely fried the electronic components.




You should never be able to buy a 120V adapter that converts to 220V. Just asking for all kinds of trouble. I do not know how power works in Germany because I never been there but that is too dangerous to be able to do this.


----------



## Kloss (Jan 27, 2017)

jttheclockman said:


> Kloss said:
> 
> 
> > Living in Italy and USA this happened to me a lot of times with different appliances. Probably he plugged the lathe with just a plug adapter without power converter or it seems he has one of those universal multi voltage power converter with selectors. I would advice to get one with just one way converter without selectors/switches.
> ...



You can find converters with both ways. The only danger is you can fry the  110 volts appliance if you don't set the converter in the right way. That's why  I only use the simple and single converters. There is no way to fry something in that way.


----------



## jttheclockman (Jan 27, 2017)

good luck


----------



## Steven Baxter (Jan 29, 2017)

He plugged it into the yellow circle. It does accept 110v. I'm taking it to the electricians I work with to see if they can figure anything out. If not I found the part online. 

But would it be this:
Circuit Board [JMLVS-100] for Jet Power Tool | eReplacement Parts

Or this:
Controller Assembly [JMLVS-83] for Jet Power Tool | eReplacement Parts

I think the circuit board may also come with the controller assembly


----------



## Steven Baxter (Jan 29, 2017)

KenV said:


> Steven
> 
> The vs modules in the US are 110 nominal.  Most/many of those rectifier boards can be set for either 110 or 220.   Unless you have the skills or the friends to fix the existing board, you get to purchase a replacement.  You have a really good shot at getting the 220 volt version (if still available).  The 1014 was discontinued in the US a number of years back.  I got mine on clearance 5+ years back.
> 
> If you are stuck with rebuild, jumper it for 220.




Would it be possible to make the lathe dual voltage? I'm in the military, and will most likely be going back to the States, as well as possibly being stationed overseas again


----------



## biednick (Jan 30, 2017)

Steven Baxter said:


> KenV said:
> 
> 
> > Steven
> ...



Not sure regarding lathes specifically, but I know they exist for dust collectors. I helped my uncle install a new dust collector he wanted running on 220v, and it was a simple matter of swapping where the power cable was connected. I would assume there's similar lathes availabile, you'd just have to swap the cable when you move back and forth. Alternatively, you could just have a 220v outlet installed here in the states and not worry about it. We have a few 220s in our shop for some of the bigger tools, I believe our dust collector and table saw run on 220, as well as our planer and joiner.


----------



## jttheclockman (Jan 30, 2017)

I hate to belaborer this but I do not see how this is possible. The blades on a 110plug are different size to fit in a 220 outlet. You can not plug a 220 plug in a 110 volt outlet so why can you do the opposite which is more deadly. I bet the blades on the 220V plug go horizontal and the the 110 go vertical. An American 110V plug are polarized in that one blade is larger than the other with a ground on a motor. Something is still wrong here.


----------



## More4dan (Jan 30, 2017)

Those aren't standard 220 volt sockets. If you look closely you can see where a 120 bolt plug could plug into it like many single plug converters. Dangerous to be sure but also convenient. 


Sent from my iPhone using Penturners.org mobile app


----------



## jttheclockman (Jan 30, 2017)

More4dan said:


> Those aren't standard 220 volt sockets. If you look closely you can see where a 120 bolt plug could plug into it like many single plug converters. Dangerous to be sure but also convenient.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Penturners.org mobile app




No I do not see how they are interchangeable from a USA stand point. Please explain how convenient it is to have someone electrocuted or something blows up because of stupidity. I can not see the the configuration of the outlets that well and not knowing what the 110 V plug end looks like.  Look at the outlets. Unless that 110 volt chord and I highly doubt it for a lathe motor to not have a polarized plug then it is impossible to fit it into a 220 outlet without modifying it. Can you wire a 110v outlet to 220v, yes but it is illegal and not code. What they do in Germany I do not know. Years and I mean many years ago small appliances such as lamps did not have polarized caps but again I do not know what they do in Germany. If what you say is possible I hope the Good Lord protects you and anyone else that does this.  
 Again I do not know what the German chords look like and if they are interchangeable that is amazing. I understand countries abroad have different power sources and set ups such as different cycles and voltages but for safety sake there should be safe guards to prevent things like this from happening. 

www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008GQTXS0/ref=abs_brd_tag_dp?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER


----------



## Kloss (Jan 30, 2017)

More4dan said:


> Those aren't standard 220 volt sockets. If you look closely you can see where a 120 bolt plug could plug into it like many single plug converters. Dangerous to be sure but also convenient.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Penturners.org mobile app



Those 220 sockets are the universal sockets. You can plug any cord in there. European, Schuko, UK, USA, etc.


----------



## leehljp (Jan 30, 2017)

There are a number of electronic devices being sold today with three prongs that will go 100/110/120 - 200/220/240 outlets in different countries. For universal travel, including large appliances there are no set single standards in many cases/countries. This usually happens to be in countries that were reconstructed just after WWII by US aid. It is my guessing that the countries were re-constructed to use both USA standards and that country's standards.   

Imagine my surprise when I checked the wiring on a 200V air conditioner when living in Tokyo (late '80s - early '90s) and found there were only two wires in the wall socket. Both hot. No ground. I never heard of that. It was common over there.


----------



## jttheclockman (Jan 30, 2017)

Well I do not travel so I will never see this stuff. Good luck to all who have to deal with this and make sure you know what you are plugging in. I am glad I live in the good old USA and there are regulations for things like this. Power up and watch the sparks fly. I made a living out of this. Got to love it.


----------



## Kloss (Jan 31, 2017)

jttheclockman said:


> Well I do not travel so I will never see this stuff. Good luck to all who have to deal with this and make sure you know what you are plugging in. I am glad I live in the good old USA and there are regulations for things like this. Power up and watch the sparks fly. I made a living out of this. Got to love it.



Yes, sparks can go further because the higher voltage. But remember, what hurts you is the amperage, not voltage, and with higher voltage appliances can work with less amps.
Efficiency is the reason to use higher voltage.
Appliances requiring less amps generate less heat, need less energy and wiring doesn't need large gauge.
The breaker that Steven is talking about is what in most EU countries they call "life-safer". it is mandatory and it is not just a breaker. It prevents any chance to be electrocuted.


----------



## jttheclockman (Jan 31, 2017)

Kloss said:


> jttheclockman said:
> 
> 
> > Well I do not travel so I will never see this stuff. Good luck to all who have to deal with this and make sure you know what you are plugging in. I am glad I live in the good old USA and there are regulations for things like this. Power up and watch the sparks fly. I made a living out of this. Got to love it.
> ...




Kloss so that you know I am an electrician for 43 years. Just retired out of the IBEW. Worked on all sorts of projects and with all sorts of voltages both AC and DC.  I am not familar what they do overseas and nor do I care. It just seems odd to me from the knowledge I know here in the states. Not allowed. If you believe voltage can not kill you I would not want you hooking anything up for me. When you can plug a 110volt plug into a 220v outlet there is nothing safe about it. Like I said he is lucky all it did was blow his house breaker and not start a fire. Breakers do not always trip. All I am saying about this because there are those that live over there and use these devices all the time so I wish them luck and i am leaving this conversation. I hope he gets his lathe working again and maybe he should pick up a few more circuit boards. If it happened once it can happen again.


----------



## Kloss (Feb 1, 2017)

jttheclockman said:


> Kloss said:
> 
> 
> > jttheclockman said:
> ...



John, nobody is judging your expertise and I agree it is better to be back on the topic of the post. But at least let me add something about your concern on the subject of amps/volts.
It isn't what I say, it is what they teach you at school professors in electronic engineering here in the US. But no big science is necessary to demonstrate that the danger doesn't comes from the voltage, that it is just the potential  difference between 2 points).
Do you remember the game of rubbing a pencil on your sweater and then attracting those little piece of paper? Or getting the little shock touching a door knob or something metallic after dragging you feet on a carpet while wearing sneakers? 
Just dragging your feet on a carpet with the sneakers you can generate at least 3,000V. But nothing happens because the amount of amps it is 
ridiculous.


----------



## jttheclockman (Feb 1, 2017)

I won't get into this with you because it is ridiculous. I know amps is what kills. MA(that is milliamps)  can kill. In the right situation you can get killed from many sources. Getting hit with 277volts will grab you and not let go as opposed to 220V But either is deadly. More deadly than 110volt but 110V is also deadly. DC votage is more deadly than AC. Everyone's body reistance is different. How you get hit and where are factors. How bad is your heart is another and the list goes on but to say voltage can not kill is rediculous. Yes it is amps that will  kill . But you need voltage to produce amps. I DO NOT need you to lecture me on electricity. Comparing static shock to house voltage is in itself ridiculous. By the way that static shock (measured in millijoules ) you refer to can kill. Ask the people on the Hindenburg.

I (amps) = V (volts) / R (resistance) . You know this because your professors taught this to you. 

The reason I got into this conversation was because I am not up on the workings of overseas electrical systems and how primitive and dangerous they can be. Using one of those converters has potential to being dangerous no matter what country you are in. I am familar of the codes in the US and it did not seem possible to do what is being done with those but evidently I am wrong sadly I may add. Not because I am wrong but because of the potential for danger. 

I do hope the OP gets the lathe up and running again.


----------



## Steven Baxter (Feb 2, 2017)

Still have not had the electrician at work check it out. Hopefully tomorrow. If he can't fix it, my friend is going to buy the new circuit board. I'll be sure to cover those two outlets so this does not happen again


----------



## Smitty37 (Feb 2, 2017)

jttheclockman said:


> More4dan said:
> 
> 
> > Those aren't standard 220 volt sockets. If you look closely you can see where a 120 bolt plug could plug into it like many single plug converters. Dangerous to be sure but also convenient.
> ...


Going to Europe is not just changing 110 to 220 or visa-versa for a USA appliance it also has to convert 50 to 60 cycles.  Most American appliances do not on board choices for 50 cycles so you really have to use a converter.  So what we're looking at is what kind of plugs they have in converters -- One would think that since 220 and 110 in the USA use different (very different) plugs that converters would too, but it seems that at least in this case they don't.  I once had an electrical contractor who was converting my house from 60 amp fuse service to 150 amp breaker service wire a 110 outlet to a 220 circuit...killed my freezer which was 110,


----------



## Smitty37 (Feb 2, 2017)

Steven Baxter said:


> Still have not had the electrician at work check it out. Hopefully tomorrow. If he can't fix it, my friend is going to buy the new circuit board. I'll be sure to cover those two outlets so this does not happen again


Well lets say this just as a prediction....whoever you show it to (unless they can work on circuit boards) won't be able to fix it.  Replacing the board will probably fix it - assuming it didn't knock anything else out.


----------



## Smitty37 (Feb 2, 2017)

Kloss said:


> John, nobody is judging your expertise and I agree it is better to be back on the topic of the post. But at least let me add something about your concern on the subject of amps/volts.
> It isn't what I say, it is what they teach you at school professors in electronic engineering here in the US. But no big science is necessary to demonstrate that the danger doesn't comes from the voltage, that it is just the potential  difference between 2 points).
> Do you remember the game of rubbing a pencil on your sweater and then attracting those little piece of paper? Or getting the little shock touching a door knob or something metallic after dragging you feet on a carpet while wearing sneakers?
> Just dragging your feet on a carpet with the sneakers you can generate at least 3,000V. But nothing happens because the amount of amps it is
> ridiculous.


 Close but no cigar--this is basic electricity, not Electronics Engineering.  There are high voltage sources that due to many possible factors will not provide enough current to kill under normal circumstances - But don't ever go to the bank on it.


----------



## Smitty37 (Feb 5, 2017)

jttheclockman said:


> I hate to belaborer this but I do not see how this is possible. The blades on a 110plug are different size to fit in a 220 outlet. You can not plug a 220 plug in a 110 volt outlet so why can you do the opposite which is more deadly. I bet the blades on the 220V plug go horizontal and the the 110 go vertical. An American 110V plug are polarized in that one blade is larger than the other with a ground on a motor. Something is still wrong here.


JJ here is one thing that we are certainly not used to -- as you know well in the USA most appliances are 110/115V 60 Hz and our houses have 220/230 60Hz feed into the house and that is split to give us 2 110/115 feeds and our house wiring is mostly 110/115.  In most of Europe the feed is 230v 50Hz and may be either single or three phase but the house wiring is all 230v 50Hz Countries in Europe use different plugs for the same wiring.  Wiring more than about 10 years old in Europe would mostly not be up to American safety standards.  Also Europe has no independent testing facility like UL and many countries still have very backward codes....

I don't think most American Trained Electricians would like to work in Europe.


----------



## jttheclockman (Feb 5, 2017)

Smitty Smitty Smitty, I know about the 50 cycles I know about the different voltages. I have worked on equipment here that either came from over seas or was going there when a plant moved and in fact I was asked to go overseas to rewire equipment that I and others took apart here. I know all this. Heck they use different rated wires than we do. Many calculations are need to make conversions. 

What stood out and still stands out and I can not believe is the ability to plug a plug into either a 120 volt or a 220 volt outlet using the same chord cap. Mind boggling. There is so much wrong with Kloss, statement about energy saving and heat that it is not worth getting into. No matter weather a device is wired for 120V or 220V it will use the same amount of power and no savings on a bill. Watts = volts X amps His professor should have taught him basic OHM's Law. 


Again I do not want to do this any more. Please leave me out of this. If you can buy those converters to do what is needed to be done then so be it. But you better well be sure what you are doing. Mistakenly plugging the lathe once does not mean it can not happen again. It is  a different world in many respects, not just the electrical field. I am happy to be living here and know what I know. But Smitty you are correct in what you said all around.


----------



## Smitty37 (Feb 5, 2017)

jttheclockman said:


> Smitty Smitty Smitty, I know about the 50 cycles I know about the different voltages. I have worked on equipment here that either came from over seas or was going there when a plant moved and in fact I was asked to go overseas to rewire equipment that I and others took apart here. I know all this. Heck they use different rated wires than we do. Many calculations are need to make conversions.
> 
> What stood out and still stands out and I can not believe is the ability to plug a plug into either a 120 volt or a 220 volt outlet using the same chord cap. Mind boggling. There is so much wrong with Kloss, statement about energy saving and heat that it is not worth getting into. No matter weather a device is wired for 120V or 220V it will use the same amount of power and no savings on a bill. Watts = volts X amps His professor should have taught him basic OHM's Law.
> 
> ...


 Most of Europe wiring is probably 20/25 years or more old and every country over there had pretty much their own code and most of them were not very good. As near as I can tell they were routinely doing things that would not fly here.  Like the converter shown.  Sloppy engineering.


----------



## Steven Baxter (Feb 20, 2017)

Well, I ordered a new circuit board. Should be here in a few days


----------



## Marmotjr (Feb 20, 2017)

Steven Baxter said:


> Well, I ordered a new circuit board. Should be here in a few days



I'm sitting here with my popcorn, enjoying the argument, and there you go, staying on topic, completely ignoring the drama.  Booo!

Hope it works out for you!


----------



## chartle (Feb 20, 2017)

Didn't read most of the posts in the middle and it may have been covered but back to the plug issue.

In China which is 220v some or all the areas of the country use a non polarized NEMA 1 "US" plug even for 220v.  

60W 220V Soldering Iron Tool Electronic Soldering Iron Gun Heat Pencil - US$3.84

and too wondering the outcome.

PS OP if you don't use those 220 outlets I would get some child (adult :wink socket protectors for them.


----------



## monophoto (Feb 20, 2017)

Decisions about voltage (and frequency) were made in the early part of the 20th century (100 years ago).  Those decisions were based on the many factors discussed here - the fact that different countries arrived at different conclusions indicates only that they weighted those factors differently.  Frankly, it is futile to try to argue the differences between them at this point - in each country, it is what it is.

More to the point, however, is that different countries chose to establish different standards for the configuration of electrical receptacles and plugs.  Again, they had reasons for the choices they made.  But those choices were made upwards of 100 years ago, and it would be very difficult to force a change today.  And again, its futile to argue that any one of these standards is better than any other.

The key consideration is that there are more far options for receptacle configuration than there are for voltage (and frequency), and in particular, the range of options for 220v applications is fairly extensive.  

This is the heart of the problem in this instance:  the SIMRAN power converter shown earlier has three '110V outlets for 2 or 3 pin USA plugs' and 'universal outlets at 220 v to accept plugs from most countries'.  This description is misleading.

First, the 110v outlets appear to be similar to NEMA-1-15 receptacles except that they appear be able to accept round pins in addition to flat blades.  I suspect that these are actually the BS 4573 (UK shaver) receptacle that are designed for 110-120v. electric shavers and toothbrushes.  

Second, the 'universal outlet' does not conform to the standards that apply in any country, but does allow standard plugs from any country to be plugged into it.   The use of a 'universal outlet' means that the power converter can be used with 220 or 230v appliances from any country - that's a good thing since there are multiple standard 220-230v plugs.  But the bad thing is that there is an expectation that the user will understand the difference between 110-120v appliances, and 220-230v appliances, and will choose the correct receptacle.  

So the core problem here is that the power converter was manufactured in China for universal application anywhere in the world, and was designed on the assumption that the end user would know what he was doing.  Which means that the cause of this problem was operator error, and not some kind of egregious design flaw.


----------



## Smitty37 (Feb 20, 2017)

monophoto said:


> So the core problem here is that the power converter was manufactured in China for universal application anywhere in the world, and was designed on the assumption that the end user would know what he was doing.  Which means that the cause of this problem was operator error, and not some kind of egregious design flaw.


 Assuming the manufacturer provided sufficient information to the buyer - a manufacturer of any universal electrical device should not assume that everybody in the world will be familiar with all of the electrical codes where it might be used and should have sufficient warnings to inform most users.


----------

