# Anyone feel guilty about using an inlay kit?



## angboy (Mar 17, 2010)

I'm just curious how other people feel when they make a pen out of an inlay kit. I've only done one to completion, but I realized the other day when someone was admiring it, that what he was really admiring was the pink ribbon on it. So I guess that while I like them and plan to make more, I kind of feel like all credit for the artistry should go to Constant or Ken and not to me. I found myself kind of explaining and almost maybe apologizing that I really didn't do that much on the pen, didn't even touch a turning tool to it since I did it all with sandpaper and then applied a finish. The pens are great, don't take this in any way as a cricitism of the kits- they let me make something that's symbolic and that I couldn't make any other way, I just feel like I'm not doing much to earn any kudos on the pen and that the behind the scenes people who made the kit are the real ones whose artistry is being admired. What do other people think?


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## jttheclockman (Mar 17, 2010)

angboy said:


> I'm just curious how other people feel when they make a pen out of an inlay kit. I've only done one to completion, but I realized the other day when someone was admiring it, that what he was really admiring was the pink ribbon on it. So I guess that while I like them and plan to make more, I kind of feel like all credit for the artistry should go to Constant or Ken and not to me. I found myself kind of explaining and almost maybe apologizing that I really didn't do that much on the pen, didn't even touch a turning tool to it since I did it all with sandpaper and then applied a finish. The pens are great, don't take this in any way as a cricitism of the kits- they let me make something that's symbolic and that I couldn't make any other way, I just feel like I'm not doing much to earn any kudos on the pen and that the behind the scenes people who made the kit are the real ones whose artistry is being admired. What do other people think?


 

If you feel guilty get a scrollsaw out and scroll your own in a pen blank. Not that hard to do. Will it look as good, I doubt it so let it go. Do you feel guily when you use a acrylic blank you bought???  You did not cast it. You did not put a finish on it. Same difference. Keep making pens and the guilt will go away.


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## Displaced Canadian (Mar 17, 2010)

I know what you mean. I presently have 4 on my deck (Thank you Constant) and all are spoken for. When people ask if I made them I say that I bought the wood and assembled and finished the pen. When they say the pen looks beautiful I agree with them. Guilt is not quite the right word and, if you did a bad job on fit and finish you would have a lousy pen with a cool design on it. I need to get mine done and in the mail so I can find out if I need to order more before Constant's sale is over. :biggrin:


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## workinforwood (Mar 17, 2010)

There is no reason I can think of that you should feel guilty and there is also no reason you can't scroll out a ribbon into a pen that will look just as good or even better because if you scroll your own you are not limited to someone elses wood or color choice.  I know I can put down a seem that is as tight or tighter than a laser and has no burn marks at all.


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## snowman56 (Mar 17, 2010)

I agree there is no reason to feel guilty about selling a laser kit.Jeff i have seen your scroll your work,and think you do a great job.When you scrool a pen blank is the patter on both side's of the blank?I have never scrolled so i have no knowlege of what you or how you do it.So you can scroll a line as tight as a cnc laser machine?


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## NewLondon88 (Mar 17, 2010)

I'd feel about as guilty as I do for not making the pen components myself..
or not making my own refills.. or not doing my own plating, not growing my
own woods, not making my own CA ..

The finished pen is more than the assembly of it's parts. The choices
you make along the way and the skill involved in making the choices and
carrying them out make a lot of difference in the finished product.


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## Displaced Canadian (Mar 17, 2010)

What, you don't make your own CA?:biggrin::biggrin:


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## glycerine (Mar 17, 2010)

They cheat, they use lasers!!  Don't feel guilty!
Seriously, Constant and Ken do some great work, I was kidding about the cheating thing.  I mean no disrespect.  
  I've only done the stars and stripes kits, but they still take alot of work on my part!
  And I also didn't cast and plate the components of the last jr. gent that I made, but I sure don't feel that CSUSA should get the credit!


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## NewLondon88 (Mar 17, 2010)

Displaced Canadian said:


> What, you don't make your own CA?:biggrin::biggrin:



Shush ..  I was faking it to make a point.

of COURSE I make my own CA. I had to chase those little cyano's all through
the woods so I could harvest their acrylate hides.. and they bite!


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## workinforwood (Mar 17, 2010)

snowman56 said:


> I agree there is no reason to feel guilty about selling a laser kit.Jeff i have seen your scroll your work,and think you do a great job.When you scrool a pen blank is the patter on both side's of the blank?I have never scrolled so i have no knowlege of what you or how you do it.So you can scroll a line as tight as a cnc laser machine?



Usually my patterns are on one side of the blank only, although I have and can do it both ways.  There is a multitude of ways to do it.  Most of the one's I sell are done using resin as a fill, and so of course the seam will be as tight, most likely tighter than a CNC Laser depending on the programmer of the CNC.  I can also do wood in wood that is just as tight, but that requires me to bevel my saw and work far slower which takes the blanks out of the retail price level.  There is a balance that has to be reached between material cost and labour, this holds true for anything.  If I sold pens with images in them and the entire pen was wood, then the cost would double mostly due to labour cost and If a pen blank is too expensive, then it becomes harder for you to sell the finished product.  Therefore the goal is to increase production while decreasing labour and therefore 99% of my scrolled blanks are resin in wood or resin in resin.  The resin in resin is the most popular anyhow, because it saves the user time by not requiring a finish.  The technique I came up with for my resin in resin works pretty quick too, and you can see that reflected in the price.  I do have articles on my website as to how I do 3 different styles of scrolled images in pens, there is another article in line for publication and perhaps they'll take some more different techniques down the pipe.  The techniques I have come up with are rediculously simple to do, as that was the whole point of it all, otherwise I wouldn't be doing it.  There is a definite advantage to scolling pen blanks, but the same can be said about having a laser.  The same can be said about PR vs Alumilite.  The scrollsaw can do things a 4 axis laser can not and the laser can do 4 axis stuff a scrollsaw can not, yet the laser can mass produce items that are all identicle and more fragile and smaller in size.  I could go on all day about the advantages of each machine and in the end I think they would come out equal depending on what you want to achieve.  The bottom line is that your imagination as to what you want and how to achieve it is your limitation.


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## Constant Laubscher (Mar 17, 2010)

You guys should feel great about doing laser kits. It takes a hell of a lot more skill to assemble them than it takes to push the button and watch it cut out on my machine!


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## wood-of-1kind (Mar 17, 2010)

Constant Laubscher said:


> You guys should feel great about doing laser kits. It takes a hell of a lot more skill to assemble them than it takes to push the button and watch it cut out on my machine!




Great now that you've made that statement, I'm now expecting an even larger DISCOUNT from you. Just kidding.:biggrin::laugh:


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## Constant Laubscher (Mar 17, 2010)

Boredom can be expensive.


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## elody21 (Mar 17, 2010)

People have ideas , people make kits, write books or write directions, people make money. You paid for the kit, you paid to make the pen!


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## workinforwood (Mar 17, 2010)

HAHA...That's funny Constant!  You have to pay for Beer as you supervise..you have the electric bill and the payments on the machine to consider.   Heck..lasers are not cheap, especially if they have a 4th axis.  Then there is also the skill factor of programming the machine.  You can't just plug it in and it knows what to do.  So even though the machine will pretty much do all the work, there was a whole lot involved before it reached that stage, so the prices people pay for laser kits around here is pretty cheap.


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## wolftat (Mar 17, 2010)

Constant Laubscher said:


> You guys should feel great about doing laser kits. It takes a hell of a lot more skill to assemble them than it takes to push the button and watch it cut out on my machine!


 I push a lot of buttons, but they don't seem to make any kits.:biggrin:


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## NewLondon88 (Mar 17, 2010)

wolftat said:


> I push a lot of buttons, but they don't seem to make any kits.:biggrin:



You forgot to stare at the beam. You *have* to stare at the beam.
But only with one eye. after that one is gone, you shouldn't stare anymore.


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## ed4copies (Mar 17, 2010)

Well Angela,

Consider this:  When you turn a beautiful burl into a pen, it looks MUCH better than a plain grainless maple.   What did YOU have to do with that???  The beauty of the blank came from nature or god or whatever you believe, but NOT from YOU!!  You just cut the sucker.  

Worse yet, we turn acrylics, PR, etc.  All a bunch of refined OIL products----YUCK!!!  But BEAUTIFUL colorful pens.

So, we have evolved to allowing a few talented guys to produce blanks.  Some scrollsaw, some catch pheasants, some laser engrave.  To ME, you have every right to be MORE proud of the collaborative effort between the "blank artist" and YOU--the "finishing artist".

For ME, the "human enhanced" blanks show MORE talent.  Some I contribute, some another PERSON contributes.

No apologies!!!


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## ROOKIETURNER (Mar 17, 2010)

I am still baffled at this. You bought the parts, assembled the parts, finished the parts, and out the other end came a pen. Just like Nissan makes cars from parts that they buy from other manufactures, we make pens from parts bought from manufactures. Some pen makers make more of their own parts, but they still have to buy parts and materials that other people made.

I say this, and I think that I am repeating or rewording past posts on this thread, but you have to take any arguement to it's logical end. You did not cut the little peices to the kit, there for you feel guilty taking credit for making the pen. As stated previously, you didn't mill the nib or mix your own CA.

Another way to take it to the logical end is to ask who makes their own pen refills? No one. We all buy them preassembled and full of ink. So in order to claim a pen as something I made, I have to mill the steel, to make the tube, press the roller ball, formulate my own ink, insert the rollerball, fill the tube with 'my' ink, make a mold for the refill cap, mold the plastic into a refill cap, seal the refill with the cap and place in my pen.

Come on, don't feel guilty. When someone asks me, "Did you make that pen?" I say yes. If they ask how I did it, I tell them all the steps that it took to make the pen.

That's all I got to say about that...


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## Constant Laubscher (Mar 17, 2010)

ed4copies said:


> For ME, the "human enhanced" blanks show MORE talent. Some I contribute, some another PERSON contributes.


 
Here is my Human Enhanced buckeye burl Blank.    Double dyed Book matched Buckeye Burl

Do you see the alligator on the bottom?


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## WriteRev (Mar 17, 2010)

There are some great comments on this thread.

When I sell the laser inlays, I put them out with the rest of my pens. When people ask how I made them, I briefly explain the process, saying that it is a collaborative work. Something like, "I work with a great laser engraver who cuts the parts. I take the cut pieces (I usually show them a sample flag stripe or star), carefully assemble them.... I continue with my regular brief pitch about the art of penmaking.

Once in a while a curious person will ask, "why don't you cut them yourself." My answer: I've thought about it, but the lasers are really expensive. I'd rather put my effort into being the best turner and penmaker I can be than into being a good laser engraver. I've never had anyone dissatisfied with that answer.

I suspect we all pitch our work in different ways. This works really well for me. I've also turned it into further sales. "You know, I can work with this same engraver for custom work. Look at this example of a business logo..." 

Steve


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## bitshird (Mar 17, 2010)

I explain that the pieces are laser cut by a man I know in Georgia and I assemble and turn them. I'm honest about it, and I don't feel at all guilty.


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## greggas (Mar 17, 2010)

Considering how long it takes to put a clicker puzzle kit together I have no trouble taking credit.  Although I do explain where the pieces came from


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## Dan26 (Mar 17, 2010)

I've only done one kit like that. The pen came out good, but it wasn't much fun to make. Kind of boring.


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## ed4copies (Mar 17, 2010)

*More guts or more money!!*



Dan26 said:


> I've only done one kit like that. The pen came out good, but it wasn't much fun to make. Kind of boring.



Well, on my first one (a "stars & stripes" when they were very new), I figured I had $60 in the kit as well as several hours assembling the kit, so when it started spinning and I went to put a tool to it, I was certainly NOT bored.

Trepidatious??  Uncertain of my ability to turn it without "lifting" any stars??  Concerned about recovering my investment??

YES, to all the above, but NOT bored!


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## Minotbob (Mar 17, 2010)

Constant - I am curious what kind of a laser machine do you have?


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## BRobbins629 (Mar 17, 2010)

Although I do most of my own blanks now, one of my favorite pens is a laser inlay.  It happens to be one I designed, I selected the woods, I turned the blanks and I sent the design to a laser cutter and carefully marked the blanks where I wanted them cut for grain orientation.  I assembled the cut pieces and finished the pen.  So there are many ways to be involved in fabricating a laser inlay pen.  Some of the newer standard designs are remarkable, but there is still a more custom opportunity if you choose to dance to the beat of a different light beam.


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## Grizz (Mar 18, 2010)

No guilt here.  I paid for it... I'm not guilty.  In golf I'm don't feel guilty for playing with better clubs than my competition.


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## angboy (Mar 18, 2010)

Thanks for all the comments everyone. I appreciate the thoughts- it was an interesting topic for me to get feedback on. And even if I feel like I'm "cheating", I'm sure I'll still keep making some of the laser inlay kits because they do turn out nice!


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## Mr Vic (Mar 18, 2010)

I'm feeling so guilty I tossed out my Jet lathe...Start work on the pole lathe this weekend...NOT!!


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## gwisher (Aug 21, 2010)

I have only made one Laser kit and had a blast doing it thanks to a wonderful donation from Lou (DCBluesman) for a silent auction we had this past summer.  The kit was fun to make and I had some professional photos taken of the pen to show future customers what can be created when people work together.  

After showing the picture to my supervisor he wanted me to custom make him one with a heart inlay and was specific on the woods.  I just explained to him that I know a guy with a laser engraver and that he sold me the parts to assemble the pen.  I explained that I could probably get someone to make the blank for me since I don't own a laser and I explained the cost that might be associated with it.   He was fine with my answer and said whatever I come up with he will be happy with.  

When I show the kit I do give credit to the "original" artist and explain that they were a part in the process.


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## Smitty37 (Aug 21, 2010)

*Skill*



workinforwood said:


> There is no reason I can think of that you should feel guilty and there is also no reason you can't scroll out a ribbon into a pen that will look just as good or even better because if you scroll your own you are not limited to someone elses wood or color choice. I know I can put down a seem that is as tight or tighter than a laser and has no burn marks at all.


 Easily said and done by a highly skilled scroller like yourself....not so easily handled by one who's skill with a scroll saw are as limited as mine.


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