# Kaleidoscope help



## LEAP (Jan 14, 2007)

I've had a couple of requests for Kaleidoscopes. The egg scopes are neat but not quite what they had in mind. Does anyone know of a good resource for information or supplies? I found some nice mirrors on ebay but thats as far as I have gone so far.
Thanks in advance,
Phil


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## fiferb (Jan 14, 2007)

Try this at CSUSA.

http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/catalog/project_kits.html


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## Randy_ (Jan 14, 2007)

Both PSI and CSUSA sell a number of different kits.


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## clewless (Jan 14, 2007)

Warner-Crivellaro in Allentown,PA. is an excellent source of stained glass, kaleidoscope materials and front surface mirror.  It is imperative to use front surface mirrors to make quality images.

http://www.warner-criv.com/

Here are their 5 pages of kits/parts/etc.  This is like making pens, in that once you buy the essential kit parts, you can make as many "7 mm" variations as you want.  My experience with scopes was in stained glass because I didn't have a lathe at the time, but now you guys got me thinking again and the stained glass materials are adjacent to the pen materials...oh, how will I find the time....[][]

http://www.warner-criv.com/search/search.aspx?&type=dept&strSearch=280&sort=n&page=1

You might also want to check out the Brewster Society which is the authoritive source of kaleidoscope info.

http://www.brewstersociety.com/

Be prepared, this is a very enticing alley to go down...been there...happy to answer questions on scope construction.


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## Woodlvr (Jan 14, 2007)

Phil,
   I noticed that BB at A.S. is clearing out bushings for kaleidoscopes. Check his clearance and sales page.

Mike


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## KenV (Jan 14, 2007)

Jerry Beall also makes some spectacular kaleidoscopes.  Slippery slope here, so be careful where you go.  The CUSA small oil wand scopes are nice for a small sum.  The egg scopes do not have to be an egg - just anything you feel like turning that is 2 1/4 inches long.

Fun stuff!!


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## LEAP (Jan 14, 2007)

Thanks guys, as always the folks here are a tremendous resource. Joe, I may just take you up on your offer. I find that the more I look into this, the more I need to learn. 
Phil


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## Rifleman1776 (Jan 15, 2007)

IMHO, it is best to stay away from the mini (egg) k'scopes. They are too small for children to use and adults don't seem to enjoy. Plus, the assembly of the three tiny mirrors inside can be very frustrating [}] trying to get just right.


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## TellicoTurning (Jan 15, 2007)

Frank, 
I've had good success with the egg K-scopes.. don't always do eggs though.. but at my price, it's usually not for kdis.

I don't have much problem with the mirrors they forma a triangle and will slip into the little pipe.. I generally put in first two to make a "V" the slide the third over the top....
 biggest problem I have is getting the length just right... 
and the eye piece has a sharp edge that can give you a nasty cut during the assembly if not careful... I've sliced my finger tips several times screwing the eye piece to the pipe inside.


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## clewless (Jan 15, 2007)

Chuck, 

Haven't done any egg scopes, but made a bunch of little tube scopes, so I find in general, it's easier and you'll get better results if you lay first mirror strip on "scotch" tape-good side up then, one at a time, stand each of the other pieces right against the first piece and lay them onto the tape. You can then fold them into the triangle and tape them securely before inserting them into the tube.


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## LEAP (Jan 15, 2007)

Joe and Chuck, 
thats funny as I combined both your methods. I used one piece of tape to hold them in a triangle as I started them in the tube. Then added two more strips after I had about a half inch or so started down the tube. I made about a dozen of them when I first got my lathe including one from from Amboyna for a sister who has a stone egg collection. Thats what got this whole idea for larger scopes going.


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## woodwish (Jan 15, 2007)

Phil,

I made my first "real" kaleidoscope maybe 30+ years ago from stained glass, and became fasicnated.  Later made them from brass and copper tubing, antique spindles, ceramic hand made tubing, etc.  I have honestly sold thousands of them.  When I got into turning almost 4 years ago I toyed with the idea of a wooden one, and not one of the eggs or oil wands.  Took me some time but soon I was turning out wooden ones with the same collection of ends that I used with my copper and brass tubing.

Explaining the whole process is lengthy but if you have any specific questions I will be glad to answer.  I hate the oil wands, just because they are so common and take no imagination.  Most of mine have two glass wheels.  Used to make them from stained glass, now I make my own fused glass wheels which has been a whole new adventure.  I also use hand-blown marbles, clear containers full of beads, and chambers full of all kinds of colorful junk.  I drill the hole in the blank (which most people seem to be very frustrated with) on the lathe using a 4-jaw chuck to hold the blank and a forstner bit in a drill chuck in the tailstock.  In small quanitities it makes sense to buy the mirrors from CSUSA or someone.  I used to cut my own always using (expensive)sheets of front-surface mirror, but now I use enough to have them custom cut usually from a mirror supplier.

I find k'scopes to be extremely fasicinating.  Each one seems nicer than the last.  They are more addictive than pens to me so be careful with getting into them[]


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## woodwish (Jan 15, 2007)

I should at least attach a photo-




<br />

Just a variety of the ones I make


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## LEAP (Jan 16, 2007)

Wow. Ray those are really nice. As I look into them I'm finding more and more variations and styles. As with pens I started easy with a few "bushing to bushing" egg kits but now I want to add some shape and personality. One wuick question what do you use for the eye piece? is it just clear glass or lexan or do you use some type of lens?


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## woodwish (Jan 16, 2007)

My mirrors are cut 7.75 inches long so from end to end the bodies are about 8", and most people can focus that distance.  Therefore you really don't need a lense of any type.  I use clear plastic Lexan-type material.  Once I found a company to custom cut them but never could agree to a price.  Now I buy sheets of cheap plastic that is made for storm windows, maybe 1/8" or less thick.  I use a hole saw in the drill press without the center drill.  

It will grab and ruin them if you are careful.  If you are only making a few you can clamp the plastic down before drilling.  I found for me I will make a 100 or so at the time.  First I cut the plastic into strips on the table saw.  Then I have a piece of plywood that I clamp down with two runners on it spaced the same distance as the plastic is wide.  I just slide the plastic strip in and hold it with my fingers to keep from advancing, the runners keep it from moving side-to-side.  It's rough but it works for me.

If you buy the mirror sets from most suppliers, like CSUSA, then they come with plastic pieces that do the same thing.  The only thing they really do is keep dust out of the body.


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## LEAP (Jan 16, 2007)

Cool, thats kind of what I was thinking. Now it's out to the shop to start experimenting. We'll see how much wood I can waste before I get a prototype. Time to go glue up some blanks.
Thanks,
Phil


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## TellicoTurning (Jan 16, 2007)

> _Originally posted by woodwish_
> 
> It will grab and ruin them if you are careful.



I don't even have to be careful to ruin things.. [}][}]

Cool Idea.. mind if I TRY [] to copy some of your technique... how do you attach the wheels and colors at the viewing end and is there a lense at that end to amplify the colors[?]


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## woodwish (Jan 16, 2007)

The wheels on mine are usually fused glass.  I carefully drill a hole in the center and glue in a short piece of 1/16" I.D. piece brass tubing.  To hold it on the k'scope body I use a 1/16" piece of brazing rod with a small glob of solder on the end. The solder holds the wheels from falling off, I usually put on two wheels with different colors and shapes.  I drill a 1/16" hole on the end of the body about 1/2" deep.  I put a drop of CA in the hole and insert the end of the brazing rod w/o the solder into it.  This hold the wheels from falling off.  Biggest problem is keeping the CA from seeping up into the tubing.  I use a little vasoline on the rod where the wheels go but not the end that gets glued (or the glue may not hold) to help prevent this.

I have also tried bigger tubing on the wheels and some small diameter threeded rod with a nut holding on the wheels.  This also allows the wheels to be exchanged.  Biggst problem is I have never found a reliable source for the threaded rod in small diameter.  BTW- where you drill the hole (rotation point) will change the way it looks, experiment some.  Also changing the angle of the mirrors by varying the size will change the number of images.

I use just clear plexiglass on both ends.  Although once I did buy some faceted glass pieces from a stained glass place and just glued those on the end with no wheels, really was pretty neat just using the multiple images and the mirrors.


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## ed4copies (Jan 16, 2007)

Ray,

Doesn't the eyepiece accumulate "junk" by static electricity?

I have used glass (a PIA) to avoid this - if it isn't an issue, bye,bye glass!


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## woodwish (Jan 17, 2007)

Ed,

In my experience it hasn't been a problem.  Basically the plexi and mirrors become an almost sealed unit so any dust would have to be on the outside, where a quick hit with a q-tip or something will clean it.  I've never noticed a problem even with the ones we take to outside dusty shows.

One other thing to think about is that with our constant high humidity we don't have as much static problem as you may.  I know that the tricks like rubbing feet on carpet (like I did when I lived in drier places) will not cause any great sparks.  Not sure how that carries over to plastic.  I know that when I lay the plastic pieces on the bench they will attract some sawdust, but wipes off easily.  Overall given the difference of cutting little glass circles (I've done a bunch with my old brass tubing models) versus a hole saw on plastic makes the plastic worth the dust problem.


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## clewless (Jan 17, 2007)

Ray, Ed,

What are you using as finish on wooden scopes?

...this damn thread has rewhetted the appetite...even sent me looking into the glass supplies for mirror stock, etc.[!][]

I feel a detour coming on,,,,[]


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## woodwish (Jan 17, 2007)

Joe-  Depends on the wood but I usually use wipe-on poly.  I have tried other things including spray lacquer if I am in a hurry.  A good k'scope gets lots of handling and the wipe-on poly seems pretty durable.  I usually use a lacquer sanding sealer first, and use a gallon can of it so I can dip the entire k'scope body in it.  That seals any sawdust on the inside just to prevent problems later.  I sand lightly after that (on the lathe) and then apply several coats of wipe-on.  It is a lot of trouble and time consuming for one but I'll make anywhere from 10-25 bodies at a time, kind of an assembly line process to finish them.

Be sure you use front-surface mirrors.  I have bought the sets of mirrors from CSUSA about as cheap as anyone.  I have also bought mirror stock locally from glass places, it's sold as replacement glass for rear-view mirrors in small sheets.  Also you can order in large quanities from Mirotek online, but the best deal I have found is Delphi Glass online (www.delphiglass.com I think).  Cut carefully and probably should not do it in the dusty shop.  I usually do it on the kitchen counter when the LOML is out shopping or something []


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## ed4copies (Jan 17, 2007)

If there is interest in this, I get front-surface mirror pretty reasonably (Dawn gets dealer pricing from all the distributors).  Stock size is 16" squares, so shipping is a problem; however, if you want specific sizes we may be able to do that, based on interest.

I use a 1" hole, so the mirrors (one-eighth inch thick) are pretty well established sizes.  Then, the question is 6, 8, 10 or 12 inches long?  

Ray, do you also use eighth inch thick, or are you using thinner? If so, what is the breakage in shipping and are you also getting 16" squares?

Feedback appreciated.


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## woodwish (Jan 17, 2007)

Ed,

I use the thinner mirror, not sure why but I always have.  Delphi sells it in 12 x 16 sheets and 8 x 12 I think.  It cost the same either way it seems and shipping is better on the small sheets.  Haven't ordered any in a while so I am at work doing this from memory.  I have never had any break in delivery or in a scope that I can think of.  I drill a 1 1/16" hole.  Most of mine are three equal sized mirrors but some are two larger ones equal sized and the third is half the width of the others.  Exact size was something I have done through trial and error to get a good fit.  I try to get 8" out of wood for the body but usually have to trim to 7 3/4"

I make most or them from 2" or 8/4 stock, but I have made a few from some 3" stock I found.  In those I drill 2 1/8" hole and make them 12" long.  Not much more work but material cost is greater.


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## ed4copies (Jan 17, 2007)

Ray,

I think the thinner mirror looks better, but then the customer is not supposed to be looking at the side of the mirrors, anyhow!!

I've never made a hole larger than 1.25", but aside from that our process is the same.  

Were you able to use the little jars???


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## TellicoTurning (Jan 17, 2007)

Ray,
I work better from pictures than from written descriptions... if it's not too much trouble, can you make a couple of pictures of the wheels and how they are attached on your K-scopes.. I have a piece of mirror left over from re-doing my extra bathroom... it is very thin.. not typical bathroom mirror so I may be able to cut and use that in two or three Scopes.


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## clewless (Jan 17, 2007)

Chuck, 
The left over mirror is rear surface, and is not really the best thing to use for scopes becasue of the image having to go through the glass to be reflected.  Front surface eliminates that and gives sharper, brighter images.


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## TellicoTurning (Jan 17, 2007)

ok, that was said earlier.. didn't think further about the surfacing.. thanks.


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## LEAP (Jan 17, 2007)

I found a number of ebay sales of front surface mirrors. bought 12 pcs 3/4" wide by 8 inches long for $9. Not sure if thats a great price or not but there was more than one seller offering them.


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## LEAP (Jan 28, 2007)

Well guys I finished my first scope today, It came out pretty good but I would not consider it sale worthy. I used an oil cell filled with sea shells that I bought from CSUSA. I sank it a little too far into the scope and it does not catch the light as much as I had hoped. Also I put a small disc of thin black foam under the eyepiece to hide the ends of the mirrors. This worked good except when Iglued it in I used a tad too much glue and it crept up around the foam and made a visible uneven ring around the edge. Other than that I'm happy with the first try. quite a few lessons learned. Thanks for your help and support.


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## clewless (Jan 28, 2007)

Hopefully, you'll be able to look back at that one in a while and smile at how far you've come.

I'm working on getting some plastic chambers that can be used for either dry cell or wet cell scopes so we can fill our own.


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## TellicoTurning (Jan 28, 2007)

Phil,
How about a picture of your first..


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## LEAP (Jan 28, 2007)

Chuck,
funny you should mention that. I finished the scope pretty late last night then dug out the digital to take a photo. First I could not find the manual to learn how to use macro. I down loaded the manual from Canon and read up on it a bit. Then grabbed some fabric from my wifes quilting stash to lay it on, cleaned off the runner and centerpiece of the dining room table for a "studio". Found the tripod. got it all set up to go only to find the camera battery was just about dead. At that point I said screw it tomorrows another day.


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## LEAP (Jan 28, 2007)

I am not having any success posting a photo here but it is in my album. Thanks for looking and apologies for the crappy photo. I really need to learn how to do this whole photo thing.


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## clewless (Jan 29, 2007)

Phil,

Turning looks good...you'll find the optics are the bugger to get good symmetry...


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