# Stuck Faceplate



## Pkweiss (Dec 2, 2015)

I just bought a Nova chuck for my PSI Turncrafter and I'm trying to get the faceplate that came with the lathe off and it it won't budge. Any suggestions?


----------



## CREID (Dec 2, 2015)

You might need to tap it a little. They can get stuck without a nylon washer in there. I have had this problem and a light tap usually works.

Curt


----------



## low_48 (Dec 2, 2015)

Screw a 2' piece of 2x4 to it, and rap it with a hammer. Maybe try a strap wrench, or in a bind, pipe wrench.


----------



## Brian G (Dec 2, 2015)

Use the spindle lock knob to lock the spindle, and then a 1-1/4" wrench will fit on the stock face plate.

Don't forget to release the spindle lock; your belts will thank you.


----------



## stonepecker (Dec 2, 2015)

did you loosen the allen screws?

I know it is a stupid question but ..................


----------



## CREID (Dec 2, 2015)

stonepecker said:


> did you loosen the allen screws?
> 
> I know it is a stupid question but ..................



Now, that would be too easy.:biggrin:

Curt


----------



## stonepecker (Dec 2, 2015)

CREID said:


> stonepecker said:
> 
> 
> > did you loosen the allen screws?
> ...


 


DAMHIKT


----------



## Pkweiss (Dec 2, 2015)

Brian G said:


> Use the spindle lock knob to lock the spindle, and then a 1-1/4" wrench will fit on the stock face plate.
> 
> Don't forget to release the spindle lock; your belts will thank you.



The spindle lock pops every time I turn the the wrench. I'm afraid I'm going to damage the lathe.


----------



## Pkweiss (Dec 2, 2015)

stonepecker said:


> did you loosen the allen screws?
> 
> I know it is a stupid question but ..................



The are no Allen screws holding the face plate.


----------



## The Penguin (Dec 2, 2015)

put some penetrating oil on the threads and let it go to work.

you could also heat up the faceplate

bolt a 2x4 to the faceplate for leverage - than use a strap wrench on the handwheel.


----------



## southernclay (Dec 2, 2015)

Yup, PB blaster, WD40 etc let it soak just a bit. 

I just had the same exact thing happen on a second hand turncrafter. Small amount of PB blaster and let it soak 30 mins. There are flat spots on that faceplate for a wrench also.


----------



## SteveG (Dec 2, 2015)

On many lathes, the spindle lock is actually an indexing pin, designed to provide a solid, accurate positioning index for various lathe operations, but is NOT designed to lock the spindle while it is being pounded on to loosen a chuck or face plate. It will work to do that, but may get damaged in the process. Try some other approach, or at least use the (very) light, but repetitive "tap-tap-tap" approach instead of the "get a bigger hammer":bulgy-eyes:approach. Try to not traumatize your lathe.


----------



## jeff (Dec 2, 2015)

Is it a steel or aluminum faceplate?  A little heat applied to an AL faceplace might work.


----------



## maxwell_smart007 (Dec 3, 2015)

Some sort of penetrating oil such as Aerokroil or the like may help if it's been stuck on there for ages...

But what you're going to want is a strap wrench (if you're lucky), or a really good set of waterpump pliers or a plumbing wrench - three corner bite, if you can...


----------



## jttheclockman (Dec 3, 2015)

May sound dumb but try to tighten it first and then try to loosen it. Sometimes this will break the bond. It does work trust me. After you get it off place a thin plastic washer between there or any other device you use. Many people take a coffee can lid and cut a small ring. They do sell these washers for this purpose. Good luck


----------



## Pkweiss (Dec 3, 2015)

jttheclockman said:


> May sound dumb but try to tighten it first and then try to loosen it. Sometimes this will break the bond. It does work trust me. After you get it off place a thin plastic washer between there or any other device you use. Many people take a coffee can lid and cut a small ring. They do sell these washers for this purpose. Good luck



I bought the washers, just can't put them on yet. Tried a few of the suggestions and still won't budge. I might might have to make it a dedicated buffer and get a new Rikon 70-220.


----------



## jttheclockman (Dec 3, 2015)

Pkweiss said:


> jttheclockman said:
> 
> 
> > May sound dumb but try to tighten it first and then try to loosen it. Sometimes this will break the bond. It does work trust me. After you get it off place a thin plastic washer between there or any other device you use. Many people take a coffee can lid and cut a small ring. They do sell these washers for this purpose. Good luck
> ...



No way. Don't give up, this happens alot. If you have access to some heat try heat. Leverage is your friend. I would not beat on it and would not use that indexing stop.


----------



## CREID (Dec 3, 2015)

Pkweiss said:


> jttheclockman said:
> 
> 
> > May sound dumb but try to tighten it first and then try to loosen it. Sometimes this will break the bond. It does work trust me. After you get it off place a thin plastic washer between there or any other device you use. Many people take a coffee can lid and cut a small ring. They do sell these washers for this purpose. Good luck
> ...



Now your talkin. Or was that the master plan all along?:biggrin:

Curt


----------



## CREID (Dec 3, 2015)

If you can get a wrench around it, try tapping the wrench. You just have to break the metal to metal bind in there. Oh and make sure you are turning things the right way!!!!


Curt


----------



## thewishman (Dec 3, 2015)

My lathes have a hole on the spindle right near the headstock. I put a transfer punch in it to stabilize the spindle and give leverage to turn the faceplate the opposite direction.


----------



## Wood Butcher (Dec 3, 2015)

A fellow pen turner called this morning saying his 4 jaw chuck was stuck on the lathe and he has pulled the knockout bar so hard he bent it 90 degrees.  He lives less than a mile from me so I drove over and we got it off.  I learned this method of removing stuck nuts, bolts etc. from an engineer who worked with me.  I had the drain plug on my motorcycle stuck and had rounded off the flats.  I applied Liquid Wrench (kerosene works as does WD40) and let it set for a while then I applied heat from a heat gun (don't want to start a fire using a torch with the Liquid Wrench all over the part) and then while applying moderate pressure to loosen, I began tapping medium hard on the chuck with a brass hammer.  It took about half an hour but all of a sudden it broke loose and spun right off, no damage to the chuck.  I suggested that he make a couple of washers from a plastic milk jug and place them between the chuck and the head stock...plastic won't stick to plastic without a lot of heat.  That's how we resolved the issue.
WB


----------



## Pkweiss (Dec 6, 2015)

I have tried just about all these suggestions over the weekend. The faceplate still hasn't budged but I now have a steady wobble. I think the darn thing is welded on. Silver lining, I just ordered my new Rikon 70-220 and I now have a dedicated buffing station.

Thanks to all who offered advice.


----------



## Charlie_W (Dec 6, 2015)

Congrats on the new lathe!

I will give one more suggestion just as an FYI.

Take a piece of flat steel at least 1/8" thick by about 1.5 to 2" wide. Have a big nut welded onto it in the center. Drill the steel and bolt to faceplate, then use a power impact wrench with socket on the nut and start giving it a go. 
Again, a strap wrench on the hand wheel. This in addition to solvents may do the trick.


----------



## CREID (Dec 6, 2015)

If you have to have a problem like that, A new lathe eases the pain a little.

Curt


----------



## aggie182 (Jan 15, 2017)

I am currently having this issue.  It's frustrating!  I just sprayed some WD40 and came in to let it hopefully soak in to the threads.


----------



## jttheclockman (Jan 15, 2017)

aggie182 said:


> I am currently having this issue.  It's frustrating!  I just sprayed some WD40 and came in to let it hopefully soak in to the threads.




There are many good responses in this thread. When you do get it free and it will come off. remember to add a plastic spacer washer so it does not happen again and use that for all chucks or thread on items.


----------



## oldtoolsniper (Jan 15, 2017)

Here is what I did. 

Took a 2x6 cut a hole with a hole saw that the indexing handle/wheel just fit in. Cut a slot to the hole, remove a small section. Drill through the end and then inset all thread rod. Nut both ends with big washers in front of the nuts. Use this to clamp onto the wheel. Screw whatever lever works to the faceplate, now you have two big ole cheater bars. Leave the 2 x 6 long so it locks against the bench or the wall, clamp it on and them go lefty loosey or something like that. 

If it slips add some of that rubber, grippy shelf liner stuff and re- tighten. 

The problem is applying leverage without bending something and without cooking the grease out of the headstock bearings. No beating on the lathe. No trying to lever a strap wrench one way and the faceplate the other. The bench or the wall is your other helper or the deadman. 



Here's the concept I'm describing. 












Sent from my iPad using Penturners.org mobile app


----------



## aggie182 (Jan 16, 2017)

I'm not quite following, but will reread later when I am home from the office.  I am a complete idiot with all things mechanical.  Hopefully I can get this dang faceplate off, I spent $120 on parts to drill blanks and can't use them yet.  I used some WD40 yesterday, but it didn't seem to help.  I tried right away, tried 30 minutes later, then finially several hours later before giving up for the night.


----------



## Herb G (Jan 16, 2017)

It might be a reversed thread. Righty loosey, lefty tighty.
The opposite of a normal thread.

Try that before wacking it anymore.


----------



## jttheclockman (Jan 16, 2017)

Does the face plate have holes in it??  If so then the best method is leverage. Place some strong bolts in the holes and use a pry bar or pipe between 2 opposite bolts and apply steady pressure. If it does not have holes you can always drill a couple in there and have no bad affect on the plate.


----------



## monophoto (Jan 16, 2017)

Brian G said:


> Use the spindle lock knob to lock the spindle




This is NOT a good idea.  The Turncrafter lathe doesn't have a true spindle lock.  There is an indexing device, but it uses a plastic toothed wheel, and if you try to use it as a spindle lock, you will break off teeth.  DAMHIKT.  There is a video by SP Wood Art on replacing the wheel if gets broken - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CD9Gv5TU24.

My experience is that the challenge is getting a good grip on both the fixing (in this case, the faceplate) and the handwheel.  Fortunately, there is enough space between the handwheel and headstock housing to get a slip-joint wrench onto the shaft.  Combining that with a piece of wood screwed to the faceplate should provide enough torque to break it loose.

Using a plastic washer helps prevent this problem, but won't eliminate it altogether (DAMHIKT either).  But if you do use a plastic washer, be sure to check it for flatness first - if the washer isn't absolutely flat, it can introduce runout when it is under a chuck.  (Another DAMHIKT).  It's easy to make your own plastic washer from a coffee can lid or the plastic mailer that income tax software comes in, but unfortunately the material used to make those items doesn't get a lot of quality control scrutiny, and the thickness isn't uniform.


----------



## aggie182 (Jan 16, 2017)

I do have 4 holes in the faceplate.  I will try the 2x4 method, but holding the handwheel will be the next issue.  I am going to end up using this as an excuse to buy some new tools.

There are also flat spots on the sides of the faceplate, but they're just smaller than my wrench so I can't put the wrench on very far.


----------



## Skie_M (Jan 16, 2017)

aggie182 said:


> I do have 4 holes in the faceplate.  I will try the 2x4 method, but holding the handwheel will be the next issue.  I am going to end up using this as an excuse to buy some new tools.
> 
> There are also flat spots on the sides of the faceplate, but they're just smaller than my wrench so I can't put the wrench on very far.



... holding the handwheel ...

Grab another 2x4, drill some holes in it about the same distance apart as your handwheel is across ...

Get some spare strap clamps, a bunch of plastic zip-ties, rope, whatever ... and secure the 2x4 to the handwheel.



... just smaller than my wrench ...

You have spare wrenches?  Take one to your grinder/sander and grind the sides down enough for it to fit!


----------



## oldtoolsniper (Jan 16, 2017)

You are making The clamp to go around the handwheel. Use it to lock the handwheel, that's why I said a 2x6 because you need a hole big enough to go around the handwheel. My handwheel is about 3 1/8" in diameter. That hole size doesn't leave much meat on a 3 1/2" 2x4.   Leave it long so it will lock against the bench or the wall. 

Those pictures show you how to make a clamp with a board. The second or black one shows what the board should be cut like. 

The faceplate is already set up to screw things to it. You may have to drill through the board you are attaching to it and use small bolts because it will be hard to get a screw though the back with it on the headstock. 


Sent from my iPad using Penturners.org mobile app


----------



## aggie182 (Jan 16, 2017)

oldtoolsniper said:


> You are making The clamp to go around the handwheel. Use it to lock the handwheel, that's why I said a 2x6 because you need a hole big enough to go around the handwheel. My handwheel is about 3 1/8" in diameter. That hole size doesn't leave much meat on a 3 1/2" 2x4.   Leave it long so it will lock against the bench or the wall.
> 
> Those pictures show you how to make a clamp with a board. The second or black one shows what the board should be cut like.
> 
> ...




Thanks!  I am visualizing it now.


----------



## darrin1200 (Jan 17, 2017)

What type of lathe is it? My Oneway, has two flats on the spindle that fit a special wrench to lock the spindle in place. Then there is a hole in the face plate, that fits a bar, to torque the faceplate off.


----------



## aggie182 (Jan 17, 2017)

darrin1200 said:


> What type of lathe is it? My Oneway, has two flats on the spindle that fit a special wrench to lock the spindle in place. Then there is a hole in the face plate, that fits a bar, to torque the faceplate off.



Turncrafter Commander lathe.  There are flats, but they're a bit small for the wrench I have.  I need to get another one.  The faceplate has 4 holes.  When I have some time, I am going to bolt a 2x4 to it and hope that helps.


----------



## aggie182 (Jan 17, 2017)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## darrin1200 (Jan 18, 2017)

Congratulations on getting it off.


----------



## oldtoolsniper (Jan 18, 2017)

What finally worked to get it off. 
Make sure you cut a plastic washer to put behind it, the washer won't prevent it from sticking 100% but it seems to help. 

Now you have to get brave enough to put it back on there when you need to use it again. 


Sent from my iPad using Penturners.org mobile app


----------



## Skie_M (Jan 18, 2017)

Good ... now order some of these and you'll be all set! 

No-Lock Lathe Spindle Washers | Wood Turning Lathe Accessories


----------



## oldtoolsniper (Jan 18, 2017)

Skie_M said:


> Good ... now order some of these and you'll be all set!
> 
> No-Lock Lathe Spindle Washers | Wood Turning Lathe Accessories





Or cut one from a milk jug, yogurt lid, coffee can lid, milk jug, cottage cheese container, bleach bottle, detergent bottle, shampoo bottle, oil bottle, of any other plastic jug you may have around the house. 

They don't even have to be perfect to work, they only need to separate metal to metal contact. 


Sent from my iPad using Penturners.org mobile app


----------



## aggie182 (Jan 18, 2017)

oldtoolsniper said:


> What finally worked to get it off.
> Make sure you cut a plastic washer to put behind it, the washer won't prevent it from sticking 100% but it seems to help.
> 
> Now you have to get brave enough to put it back on there when you need to use it again.
> ...



Pipewrench secured by my better half on the hand wheel itself.  I was too chicken to put it on the shaft that runs through the wheels the belt go on.  I used a regular wrench on the flats on the faceplate and it broke free.  I boogered up the hand wheel a bit but it should be fine.  I'll probably sand the little sharp parts on the hand wheel down and be good to go.  I did some drilling last night and it seemed like everything was spinning fine.  I cut a plastic washer and put it on.  Hope it helps!  The blank chuck came off just fine.


----------



## jttheclockman (Jan 18, 2017)

oldtoolsniper said:


> Skie_M said:
> 
> 
> > Good ... now order some of these and you'll be all set!
> ...




The main factor when cutting your own plastic washer is that they are truely equally flat. Any deviation or hump will add vibration or out of roundness to the chuck no matter how small.


----------



## monophoto (Jan 18, 2017)

jttheclockman said:


> The main factor when cutting your own plastic washer is that they are truely equally flat. Any deviation or hump will add vibration or out of roundness to the chuck no matter how small.



Very true.

The other point here is to not spin the faceplate/chuck/whatever on so hard that it jams.  

Some of the YouTube guys can be seen to use 'snap of the wrist' to force threaded fixings onto the spindle.  That that does is increase the difficulty of eventually getting the fixing off the spindle.  Instead, just gently thread the fixing onto the spindle leaving it 'finger tight'.


----------



## oldtoolsniper (Jan 18, 2017)

jttheclockman said:


> oldtoolsniper said:
> 
> 
> > Skie_M said:
> ...





I guess I never considered that since I routinely make my own faceplates out of wood with simple lathe tools. Sometimes they are not laser perfect but they seem to work. 

I use the 1x8 nylon lock nuts after I remove the nylon part. Learned it from some lady who wrote a few books on turning wood. I bet all those $1.00 nuts aren't machined to the enth degree ether. 

I bet some of that wood used by more than one woodturner as faceplates may even be lopsided weight wise. I mean one side could be more dense than the other. 

I find it hard to believe a little tiny piece of plastic that weighs next to zero will be causing much for vibration in this case. 



Sent from my iPad using Penturners.org mobile app


----------



## JimB (Jan 18, 2017)

oldtoolsniper said:


> jttheclockman said:
> 
> 
> > oldtoolsniper said:
> ...



I don't think John is talking about the weight of the washer. I believe he is referring to the fact that if the washer isn't flat and even thickness then the faceplate will not sit flat against the washer but will rather make contact only at the point of the 'hump' and can cause vibration. The problem will be more evident the heavier the piece of wood is that you have mounted.


----------



## oldtoolsniper (Jan 18, 2017)

JimB said:


> oldtoolsniper said:
> 
> 
> > jttheclockman said:
> ...





Still I find it hard to believe that every chuck, commercial faceplate, beall collet or whatever you screw onto that $350-$600 lathe is lapped to precision to fit dead flat each time you screw it on. I could understand that if the lathe were made for perhaps brain surgery. I'm going to bet there is some variation and the level of precision you speak of does not exist on a Turncrafter lathe. 


Sent from my iPad using Penturners.org mobile app


----------



## MrPukaShell (Jan 18, 2017)

Get a "Spanner Wrench" to hold the spindle using that little hole next to the headstock.  Get or find the wrench that fits the faceplate.  Make sure the faceplate or check is seated prior to turning the lathe on so it does not lock on by the lathe spinning.  Hope this helps along with the plastic washer


----------



## monophoto (Jan 18, 2017)

JimB said:


> I don't think John is talking about the weight of the washer. I believe he is referring to the fact that if the washer isn't flat and even thickness then the faceplate will not sit flat against the washer but will rather make contact only at the point of the 'hump' and can cause vibration. The problem will be more evident the heavier the piece of wood is that you have mounted.



Exactly!  

Let's put some numbers on this.  Faceplates are generally used for face-grain turning.  So the concern is that if the faceplate is not absolutely perpendicular to the axis of rotation, there will be some 'runout' (aka 'wobble') at the perimeter of the turning.   A faceplate is machined such that the faces are exactly parallel.  That is, if the faceplate is screwed onto the spindle such that the back face snugs up against the face of the spindle, the face where the wood attaches to the faceplate will be exactly perpendicular to the spindle axis.  But suppose that there is a washer between the back of the faceplate and the face of the spindle, and that washer is very slightly not flat.  For the sake of discussion, assume that one side is 0.1mm thicker than the other side.  Now, when the faceplate is snugged up against the face of the spindle, the out-of-flat washer therefore causes it to be cocked as a very slight angle to the axis of rotation.   OP started this conversation with a question about a Turncrafter Commander lathe - which has a 1" spindle diameter.  That means that the faceplate will be 0.1mm away from the face of the spindle at one point, and touching the face of the spindle at a point 180 degrees away.  Then, if you are turning a piece with a 5" radius, that 0.1mm error will therefore be amplified by a factor of 10 - to product a side-to-side wobble at the perimeter of the piece of 1mm.  And if you then machine that edge to be flat using a tool anchored on the tool rest, the result will be a 1mm error in the thickness of the finished turning.  

The same thing is true when using a chuck, but in addition to causing wobble at the perimeter of the piece, there is also wobble along the length of the spindle that is also related to the deviation in flatness in the washer by that same ratio - spindle that is 5" long will experience 1mm of runout at the end.

So the point here is that if you want the turning to be accurate, the fixing (faceplate or chuck) must be exactly perpendicular to the axis of rotation, and anything that acts like a shim between the back of the fixing and the face of the lathe spindle will result in runout that will be amplified as the diameter or length of the turning increases.

And obviously, there will also be vibration that will increase as the blank becomes heavier.


----------



## oldtoolsniper (Jan 18, 2017)

monophoto said:


> JimB said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think John is talking about the weight of the washer. I believe he is referring to the fact that if the washer isn't flat and even thickness then the faceplate will not sit flat against the washer but will rather make contact only at the point of the 'hump' and can cause vibration. The problem will be more evident the heavier the piece of wood is that you have mounted.
> ...





And PSI gets all that precision in a faceplate they have manufactured in china, packaged, shipped to them in the USA and then sent out to the consumer for $17.95. 

I think those plastic washers would need to go up in price if they are machining them to those tolerances. 


Sent from my iPad using Penturners.org mobile app


----------



## KenV (Jan 18, 2017)

A touch of wax on the mating surfaces of the headstock and the chuck/faceplate makes a difference too.   This does not cause wobble that increases runout and other challenges.

Do it the same time you wax the ways and it becomes a habit.


----------



## duncsuss (Jan 18, 2017)

oldtoolsniper said:


> Still I find it hard to believe that every chuck, commercial faceplate, beall collet or whatever you screw onto that $350-$600 lathe is lapped to precision to fit dead flat each time you screw it on. I could understand that if the lathe were made for perhaps brain surgery. I'm going to bet there is some variation and the level of precision you speak of does not exist on a Turncrafter lathe.



You might be right, you might be surprised.

We had a demonstration by Stuart Batty last November. He was turning a cherry bowl, about 8" diameter, on a Powermatic lathe. At one point he stopped and said, "There's some vibration, let's find out why and fix it."

The chuck was fine. The tenon in the chuck was fine. The headstock was clamped down tight.

He loosened the headstock and slid it along the ways, and found a little saw dust had been trapped between the headstock and the lathe bed. Cleaned that out, clamped everything down, and he was off to the races.

It really does not take much to induce vibration.


----------



## jttheclockman (Jan 18, 2017)

Yes to all counts. I am talking about the face of the washer. The question is why add any home made vibration if you can avoid it. That is my point. Now if your chuck is not top quality it is something else. But yes it is a wood lathe and we do not deal with the tolerances that a metal lathe does. But you want to avoid the dreaded frozen chuck to the lathe and this method has been proven many times over to be a good way to avoid that part. Now note those washers do need to be changed time and again. 

When you screw any chuck on the spindle you will notice those threads are nowhere near tight tolerances. There is a lot of slop in them. What stops the vibration is the butting of the chuck to the head stock and that is where that washer is. After that good luck.


----------



## Skie_M (Jan 18, 2017)

John's exactly right ... the spindle shoulder IS machined to tight tolerances because it has to be perfectly parallel to the spindle rotation.

You want your washer to be perfectly flat ... milk jugs and those other plastics MIGHT do the trick, if they are flat enough, but they were made for holding food, and holding an exterior shape only.  If you find plastic that's thin enough and flat all the way around, then use it!

As for a faceplate being out of true .... yes, it'll wobble a bit, but as long as you aren't vibrating the heck out of your lathe and your workstation, you can still turn a piece of wood true, as it'll have it's own center of rotation.  Once you have the tenon turned, take the faceplate off and use your chuck to turn .... and get a new faceplate or make your own!

Making faceplates is easy.  Just need a nut that fits your lathe spindle.  Use epoxy over CA for this, as it'll need to absorb quite a bit of shock and vibration during turning, but you'll drill a hole in a birch ply board or a piece of MDF (or other decently strong flat stock, hardwood works too) roughly the size of the nut exterior ... using a chisel to chip out the 6 corners.  You want the nut to seat at least halfway into the board.  Epoxy it in place, using a vice or clamps to try to keep it seated level.

It doesn't have to be perfect!  Once you get the nut glued in and it's had time to fully cure (wait 24 hours), knock the corners off or rough out the general size you want your faceplate to be, and mount it on the lathe.  Now you round the exterior to your liking, true up the BACK to reduce wobble and vibration, and true up the FRONT where you'll be attaching your work pieces.  Once it's completely rounded and trued front and back, there's no wobble and there should be no out of balance issues as long as the material you choose is of uniform density.  There's no need to finish one of these, unless you just like the nicer appearance or want some extra durability against water or other types of damage over time.


----------



## oldtoolsniper (Jan 18, 2017)

duncsuss said:


> oldtoolsniper said:
> 
> 
> > Still I find it hard to believe that every chuck, commercial faceplate, beall collet or whatever you screw onto that $350-$600 lathe is lapped to precision to fit dead flat each time you screw it on. I could understand that if the lathe were made for perhaps brain surgery. I'm going to bet there is some variation and the level of precision you speak of does not exist on a Turncrafter lathe.
> ...





I've learned a lot. I'll have to take my headstock off and get the sawdust out from under it. 

A $18 Chinese faceplate is machined to absolute tolerances. 

A couple thousands off on one side the thickness of a plastic washer can throw my lathe out of balance. 

I ponder this and wonder how it is that I turn wood that is out of round to round without some insane vibrations. 

I wonder to when I turn a blank that is part Alumilite and part wood why that does not reek havoc on my lathe as well. It would seem to me that there would be an out of balance issue there as well. Either the wood or the alumilite is going to weigh more than the other. 

If you drop a round section of dowel into water the same side floats to the top every time. I was taught to make fishing lures using this method, mark the dowel topside and add the hooks to the side that is the bottom. Why fight the balance of the wood. 

That indicates to me that the dowel is out of balance, when I turn it on the lathe will it not still be that way? Will the density somehow magically balance out because of my precision washer?

So if I understand all of this correctly a lathes threads are so sloppy, yet somehow so precision that a couple thousands of an inch in thickness on a plastic washer or some dust will throw the whole thing out of wack. 

It's no wonder new lathe owners are discouraged. 

Plastic washers. 

I don't even know what skie is talking about. 











Sent from my iPad using Penturners.org mobile app


----------



## aggie182 (Jan 18, 2017)

I cut my plastic washer out of the plastic box my mandrel came in.  It will hopefully work for now.  It's kind of ugly.  Next time I'm near woodcraft, I may stop in an spend the $2, or whatever, on a state of the art, perfectly round and beautiful plastic washer.


----------



## TellicoTurning (Jan 18, 2017)

I have one of the nylon washers on my lathes now, but for several years, I used a piece of thick leather that I had laying about, cut it roughly round and used a 1" pipe as a punch and punched a hole to fit over the spindle threads... worked fine until I finally let loose of the $2 or so for the nylon washers.


----------



## jttheclockman (Jan 18, 2017)

oldtoolsniper said:


> duncsuss said:
> 
> 
> > oldtoolsniper said:
> ...




Not sure but I am detecting some sort of disbelief. But what I think it comes down to is you are not understanding the performance of a wood lathe. You can get vibration from so many things on a wood lathe. lathe Out of square or not lying flat, belt, bearings, wood itself out of round (this is the object here to make it round) chucks or other means of holding said wood, dust in the ways, dust behind the chuck, unflat washers. The list will go on. But all chucks rely on one thing and that is mating up against the flat of the head stock. From there a piece of wood is spun on that particular chucks center. So if the chuck has flaws in the jaws or you mounted the wood wrong it will initially show up but eventually will be spun to center. Now depending how well you tailstock and headstock line up will help determine weather that center line stays centered.   Yes your better chucks will perform better no matter where they are made. Just because you use a true flat washer will not take out imbalance or vibration if it is coming from the many other sources. I just mentioned a flat washer because that is one less thing you need to worry about. The little things like that and cleaning are easy things. Use a washer or not it is your lathe.


----------



## robutacion (Jan 18, 2017)

Well, read the whole thread and initially, the OP had many suggestions to resolve his problem, some of which I experience myself.

The removing of a stuck face place or even a regular chuck, can be a nightmare to resolve, some consideration to the late/spindle system of the machine with the problem, will require slight different approaches, mostly to protect/prevent the locking mechanism system and other things but, and as I said, a number of options have been presented and they all have they own merits...!

As for the plastic washes, I went that route after I got my chuck stuck, I started by making my own of materials suggested here but, I didn't like them and searched for the proper made spindle washes, bought a dozen and half still new, this was 8 or 9 years ago.

Now, before the chuck (Nova G3) got stuck, I was having problems with a wobble that would change behaviour often, depend upon what I had turned before such as a big piece or a small piece.

The wobble was traced to the thread tolerances between the lathe (Nova 1624-44) and chuck tightness, mounted manually (hand tight) the wobble was more significant but because I didn't want to use force to tighten the chuck and make it stuck and have to go through the dramas I heard others going through, I keep losing the chuck and inserting it by hand before every new job.

Particularly with turning bowl, a "catch" is not unusual nor are the big nasty catches that scare the bajivas out of you however, I had very different/opposite results every time a bad catch would happen, sometimes the spindle/chuck would stop wobbling and run smooth and other times the very opposite would happen making me stop the lathe and inspect.

So, what was happening...? because of the thread tolerances as mentioned above, when the chuck was hand tight, the tolerances were more constant due to slight movement of the chuck slightly moving position on the spindle thread however, when a bad catch would happen, the chuck would jam tight and depending on where the "flat" faces of the steel would touch each other, the position of the chuck would either lock on one side of the thread clearance and therefore, creation the out of balance motion of the chuck.  A few time that a bad catch has neutralise the wobble was when the chuck would jam on the flat metal surfaces where the thread tolerance would be equal all around making it to run smooth.

When I started using the proper plastic washers and hand tight the chuck, I could see that the wobble would almost disappear but, as soon as I had a considerable catch, the wobble would increase but it never got stuck in the spindle as before, most times, just by losing the chuck and hand tight it again would solve the problem however, I had a few times where turning the washer around would be a better solution until the washer got too squashed and needed replacement.

With all this said, there was one issue that I had since the beginning when I got the chuck and the insert for it that I never resolved and that shouldn't have happened in the first place and that was the chuck wobble.

At the time, there were various suggestions I was given (other forum) on how to alter the chuck insert to reduce/fix the wobble.  It was evident that the insert that came with the G3 chuck was not made right and the threads had too much tolerances causing the problem.

Now, believe it or not, I have used this lathe all these years, dealing with the chuck wobble the ways I explained however, a large percentage of my turnings started without the chuck but rarely I could finish the piece without its use but by then, most of the important work was done.

Anyway, a few weeks ago, I received a "Sherwood" catalogue (one of the main wood-working tool names in Australia, and the one I acquired most of my machinery) and in it, they had a promotion for all spindle lathe accessories, from chucks, plates, etc, etc., so I saw the G3 chuck inserts listed and they were made by "Teknatool" which make s most of Nova accessories while my original insert was not made by this people.

So, I got the new insert and after cleaning the spindle thread, I installed it and noticed a gap between the back of the insert and the lathe spindle thread stop so, it would not go any further back a distance that I didn't measure but it looked the same as the proper plastics bushes sold to put in there and I thought a little odd.

With the lathe on, the spindle runs true as it should so, I decided to remove the spindle and insert a new plastic bush and see it would run loose or not.  Well, tightening the spindle by hand, I could feel a softer contact when tightening it with the same hand torque as before, putting the fingers on the plastic washer, it was tight and wouldn't move so, trying the turn the lathe on again, I saw no difference than without the bush and that was good enough for me,

I wonder, if the new inserts are made to accommodate these plastic bushes, and if so, why they don't sell the inserts with some of these plastic bushes?

Have you had a similar experience...?

Cheers
George


----------



## oldtoolsniper (Jan 19, 2017)

robutacion said:


> Well, read the whole thread and initially, the OP had many suggestions to resolve his problem, some of which I experience myself.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





I'm not familiar with the chuck set up you have. 
I have a Jet VS 1014 or something like that. 
I own two oneway talon chucks and a PSI six jaw chuck. All three of these seat all the way onto my headstock without anything added. I have never used anything but my hands to put a chuck onto my lathe. Many times after a catch when turning small logs, branches, bowls or whatever the chuck is on a little tighter than hand tight, I'll call it catch tight. Removing a catch tight chuck has not always been fun as has been noted in this thread. 

In my opinion the insert should butt up tight to the headstock. Even the $99 PSI chuck accomplishes this on my little Jet lathe. 

There are differences in the "fit and finish" between a oneway chuck and a PSI chuck but the price point is different as well. I'm using those as my example because I own and use them. Even with the quality difference all three of them butt tight to the headstock without the dreaded wobble inducing plastic washers. 

I use the nylon locking nuts 1x8 when I make things to screw onto the headstock of my lathe. I cut the nylon part out of the nut. The reason I do this is because those nuts are tall enough to bottom out against the headstock spindle. Standard 1x8 nuts are not tall enough for this. 






Standard 1x8 nut clearly showing threads not covered.









Nylon locknut with nylon removed butts against the spindle face on the headstock. I use them for this reason. After you pry out that nylon locking insert they seat fully on my jet lathe. No welding washers or anything else required to get those nuts to seat. I learned it from a Bonnie Kline turning demonstration. 

My apologies for the plastic washer it was once a cottage cheese lid. 









Sent from my iPad using Penturners.org mobile app


----------



## robutacion (Jan 19, 2017)

> I'm not familiar with the chuck set up you have.
> I have a Jet VS 1014 or something like that.
> I own two oneway talon chucks and a PSI six jaw chuck. All three of these seat all the way onto my headstock without anything added. I have never used anything but my hands to put a chuck onto my lathe. Many times after a catch when turning small logs, branches, bowls or whatever the chuck is on a little tighter than hand tight, I'll call it catch tight. Removing a catch tight chuck has not always been fun as has been noted in this thread.
> 
> ...



Well, I understand what you are saying and it may be that I still haven't the right insert however, I was on the phone with the shop guy that is suppose to be the thecn. guy in the shop for these type issues and I was very clear of the type of lathe and chuck I had, which he was very familiar with so, I won't be surprised if the correct insert should butt flat on the spindle, it would make a lot more sense so, I may need to expand this issue a little more.

I will take some pics of my set-up/spindle/insert/chuck tomorrow and I will post here...!

Cheers
George


----------



## Rounder (Jan 19, 2017)

So to me, the most important and yet unasked question is this: Since you got the faceplate off, DO YOU STILL GET THE NEW LATHE???


----------

