# Welcome to Pen Finishing



## C_Ludwigsen (Sep 25, 2004)

Thanks for taking an interest in the Finishing forum of the IAP discussion boards.  My experience has been that you can work very hard on a turning project, select beautiful wood, turn it cleanly and precisely, sand it to where people doubt it is wood to begin with, but lose much of that on a poor finish.  For that reason, the finishing step has become critical to me to considering a project successful.  But I have also come to realize that what might be considered the best finish for 1 type of wood or for a certain pen profile, might not work well for other woods or profiles.  For example, a CA finish is great, but very difficult for sculpted pens.

And then comes the issue of health concerns.  Which is what ignited my interest in other finishes to begin with.

My hope is that this forum will server several purposes.

1. To collect information and techniques for a variety of finishing regimens and present them in collected form for new and experienced turners.  My hope is that we can periodically cull the posts and replies in this forum into specific sticky posts where folks can get the basic process questions answered as quickly as possible.

2. To help understand why we prefer different finishes and what variables may come into play with various plans.  Do certain types of wood benefit better from using BLO in the finishing process versus others, and what does BLO mean anyway? - that sort of thing.

3. A place for healthy and constructive debate over the merits of different finishes for different purposes, constraints or whatever.

4. A place where we can not only discuss the what, why, and how of finishes, but where we might find the best products and values in finishing tools and materials.

I'm quite sure that this great group of turners will never fail to generate new and interesting conversations surrounding this topic.  While we are getting this forum running, we may beg your forgiveness if we move conversation threads from the other forums into this one if they lend themselves to the topic.

Thanks for letting me serve as your moderator here.  Enjoy...

Chuck Ludwigsen


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## timdaleiden (Sep 25, 2004)

I think this topic does deserve it's own special place. 

  I started looking for diffent kinds of finishes some time ago. I remember the first time I tried a "pure CA" finish on a pen with tiny beads I had turned. What a mess. 

  I have a shelf filled with different finishes at this point. 

  My two favorite finishes at this point are BLO/CA, and spray laquer. The spray worked well to finish the tiny beaded pen. 

  I know not everybody will agree on what is the best finish, but that is OK.


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## penhead (Sep 25, 2004)

I had some interesting results when I first started using a "pure CA" finish...but when ya get it right, it sure looks nice.  (At least half the people who buy my pens still prefer the 'natural' feel of the wood and choose a pen finished with just a friction polish).  Go figure.  

Could you explain or point me to an article if one exists on how to mix, apply, use, etc. the BLO/CA technique..?

Thanks,
JohnPayton


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## low_48 (Sep 25, 2004)

Chuck,
Glad to see you starting this new discussion. People get as confused with finishing their turning work just as much as they do for furniture. Just look at any retail outlet that sells wood finishing materials, the different products go almost as far as the eye can see. Everyone looks for a "miracle" finish, and the manufacturers keep putting out the "new and improved" so we will keep trying these new products looking for something easier. I'll try to help here as much as possible. I've been woodworking for 30 years, 14 of them professionally. I've used quite a few materials and accumulated alot of experience. Let's get this going!! 

I am fairly new to this group, any way to run short "videos" off that you can make with a digital camera? You may find out, I'm alot better woodworker and woodturner than computer jockey.

Rich


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## RussFairfield (Sep 25, 2004)

There is a definite difference in the "feel" of a finish. People will prefer the friction polish because it is shellac, and shellac has a warm feeling. CA is a plastic, and as such it feels cold when it is picked up. People expect wood to have a warm feeling when they pick it up.

We also have to do pens with a shellac for those who are environmentally sensitive. They will accept shellac because it is a "natural" finish. And, you would be surprized by the number of folks who pass up the high shine for the "polished natural wood with a protective coating of wax." 

Just a reminder that what looks the best and lasts the longest is not always the one that people prefer.


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## ilikewood (Sep 25, 2004)

True to the saying "the customer is always right".  Finishing is a personal choice of the buyer, so maybe we should try and master all the elements of finishing (or at least give it our best shot)[]


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## penhead (Sep 25, 2004)

"master all the elements of finishing"....

...heck, I'm still trying to just figure out how many there are..

...had a woodworking friend give me a sample of his 'mixture' for finishing furniture he makes...and as soon as the smell of turpentine wears off the pen blank, I'm gonna revisit it..

JohnPayton


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## pssmith (Sep 28, 2004)

Even in the short time I've been able to turn pens (5 max[]), the biggest question is how to finish.  Each pen carried a little experimentation with the current scheme involving sanding thru MM 12000, BLO/Poly/MS blend with light wet sanding between coats to make smooth, then a couple coats of brushing lacquer applied with a cotton t-shirt while the lathe is running (as I have lite blue paper towel fuzzies on the first few....bad idea[xx(])

Never thought about the more simple and natural wood look that shellac / wax gives minus the protection.  I began by trying to put a gloss finish that would last.  It's a good consideration to remember.  

Any input as to my current finishing technique are more than welcomed and appreciated.   Thanks for the sounding board


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## C_Ludwigsen (Sep 28, 2004)

Thanks Patrick, I for one would like to know more about your blend.  First, what does the 'MS' mean?  Also, can you give us some idea regarding mixing amounts, brand of Polyurethane, and drying time?  Finally, what grits do you use for the wet sanding between coats?

Thanks again.


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## Gary (Sep 29, 2004)

Russ...when you display pens for sale at something like a craft show, do you display pens with different types of finish. By that I mean, do you have out some with the shellac/friction/wax polish finish and some with the high gloss CA or "plastic" look?


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## RPM (Sep 30, 2004)

I appreciate that this thread has been started.  I am just beginning to turn pens (actually, I have just purchased the equipment and I have not turned my first one yet).  I think that says how much of a newbie I am.  However, as a newbie, it would be helpful in this type of thread if acronyms or initials could be avoided or at least spelled out the first time used.  I have read through this thread and while it appears that there is good information here, I have no idea what is being said.  If there is a thread elsewhere with terminology and I have not found it, my apologies and perhaps you could direct me.
Thanks,
Richard


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## C_Ludwigsen (Sep 30, 2004)

Richard, great point.  I was thinking the same thing when I just posted the thread on Boiled Linseed Oil (BLO).  I'll try to make a point of noting the acronym's proper name in each thread.

I'll post a follow-up sticky thread containing acronym definitions.

I do have to give you the required hard time now for using initials as your member ID []

Chuck


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## RPM (Sep 30, 2004)

Why the hard time?  My name is Richard P Marsh.  This is a turning forum.  I though it was a natural, RPM - revolutions per minute.[]
Richard


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## C_Ludwigsen (Sep 30, 2004)

I know what you mean.  Everytime someone says they need to tighten their chuck, I flinch.  What is worse, I was born on Feb 2 - Groundhog's day, which is also known as a................................. you guessed it, Wood Chuck.

[][]


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## Brent (Nov 8, 2004)

Just wondering if anybody has finished any pink ivory? What did you use


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## C_Ludwigsen (Nov 8, 2004)

I have done 1 with a CA finish and one with a lacquer finish.  The CA pen had BLO applied first and showed more pinkish than the one without.

My wife loves her pen.  People do not believe it is natural wood.


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## thostorey (Jan 3, 2005)

I'm currently in a protracted discussion on another forum with a retired teacher who has a knowledge of chemistry. A little history. A while ago, at the request of a member of that forum, I posted Russ Fairfield's formula for friction polish. I said how well it worked and others on the forum agreed. Well, the chemist has great skepticism as to the mixing abilities of the various ingredients (to my knowledge he has never mixed and used the polish on a piece of wood). The oil and water thing. Well, I'm not going to tell him about mixing BLO and CA on the shaft of a wooden pen, he may think I'd lost it[] Anyway, I referred him to Russ's web page so I have the horse as far as the water...

I'm a believer in Russ's formula and because it will eventually wear and wear evenly down to the beautiful wood, I use it exclusively.


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## Fred in NC (Jan 3, 2005)

The ingredients don't mix !!  Just the same as happens with French Polish.  The BLO lubricates so the rag will not stick to the rotating pen.  It also contributes to building the heat.


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## DCBluesman (Jan 3, 2005)

Tom...I'm sure this teacher believes what s/he is thinking, but I can tell you that hundreds if not thousands of folks have used Russ's formula successfully.  The ingredients may not homogenize, but you can form an emulsion with them.  Additionally, when they separate, a good shaking re-emulsifies them.  If s/he chooses to still ignore the experience of others, it will only cost him/her about $20 to test it.  If s/he is stubborn, s/he won't "drink" no matter what.


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## thostorey (Jan 3, 2005)

Fred, I think that is all he is really saying; they do not mix and I don't have a problem with that. But the implication seems to be that the polish will not work as advertised because the liquids don't mix; that I've had a problem with because my pens look just fine[].


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## RussFairfield (Jan 3, 2005)

Sometimes a little knowledge can be dangerous to some folks.

Yes, they are chemically incompatible and insoluble. THAT IS WHY IT  WORKS. The shellac (or lacquer) goes down to the wood surface, while  the oil stays on top as a lubricant. That matte on the surface of the rag is mostly the oil that has been picked up from the surface and fried from the heat. If they were in solution, the result would be a very soft finish. 

The commercial friction polishes also exhibit the similar insolubility of their ingredients. Otherwise, I wouldn't have to shake the bottle every time I use one of them. Some of the commercial manufactures homogenize their product to make the ingredients stay in suspension.

Most people have 4 problems with a friction polish:

1. They didn't read the directions on the bottle. 

2. The wood isn't smooth enough for a high gloss finish.

3. Not enough heat is generated. This is the one that gets most of them. Friction = heat. They miss that connection.

4. They use too much of it. And, adding more will not correct the condition.

I see a general pattern of behavior with how people use a friction polish.

Someone is having a problem with a product.
They ask for advise, buy a different one, follow the directions, and pay attention to what they are doing.
It is successful, and they endorse that product.
And, I am always left wondering if the original polish would have worked as well with the same care and attention to its use.

I always get a kick out of these folks who ask a question, and then tell you that you don't know what you are talking about when you give them an answer. If they're so smart, why did they ask the question?? 

I want to hear what this guy says about CA glue and Boiled Linseed Oil.


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## C_Ludwigsen (Jan 3, 2005)

Wow Russ, that is an excellent detailing of how the process works.  I'm probably one of those that (a) didn't generate enough heat, and (b) used more than necessary.

Thanks for the write-up.


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## Gregory Huey (Jan 20, 2005)

I have found a clear lacqure to be the beat finish on Pink Ivory. I am a very big fan of BLO/CA finishes but it tends to turn a yellow cast on P.I. Idont use fricition polishes for the same reason.


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## Darley (Feb 1, 2005)

> _Originally posted by C_Ludwigsen_
> <br />I have done 1 with a CA finish and one with a lacquer finish.  The CA pen had BLO applied first and showed more pinkish than the one without.
> 
> My wife loves her pen.  People do not believe it is natural wood.



Chuck is true that people doesn't believe pink ivory is natural wood, I did have 4 time the question and poeple laugh at me when I explain to them, I do have a scultured pen on the way to be finish with pink ivory this pen is for a wedding, hard to convinced the Groom so I give them the chance to look for Pink Ivory wood  on the net and this is what I say to them 

PINK IVORY
The Pink Ivory Tree ( Rhamnus Family) grows in Africa, mostly in Zimbabwe, Mozambique and South Africa. It is very scarce wood and commands an exceedingly high price. The wood is said to be rarer than Diamonds and almost impossible to obtain. Pink Ivory Wood from Mozambique is called the "Royal Wood of the Zulu's" because of its importance in local customs religious rituals. It has a lovely tight grain pattern hard and heavy with a naturally deep pink to watermelon red color. The Tree grown from 10 to 50 feet tall with a trunk diameter to 6 to 9 inches. Pink Ivory is generally only used for small fancy articles, inlaid work and carvings.
Africa and South Africa


Serge


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## jwoodwright (Feb 1, 2005)

Russ, I've learned so much from your site.  Your formula works for me.  Effort is rewarded...[]


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## Hugob (Feb 2, 2005)

Hi Richard,
I've started turning pens in Nov 2004. 
The one place (website), that helped me alot was the following:

www.woodturner-russ.com, go to 'the usefull', at the bottom click on "PENS"
READ!!!!!!!!
Regards
HUGO


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## Woodnknots (Feb 18, 2005)

Can anyone tell my your method of applying BLO?  How long do you let it dry before you finish it off with CA?  How do you apply the CA?  Can you apply Hut Friction polish and Carnuba after the BLO?  Sorry, I'm new, and still experimenting with finishes.


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## DCBluesman (Feb 18, 2005)

There's an excellent article in our reference section.  http://www.penturners.org/content/ca-blo.pdf


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## Mudder (Feb 18, 2005)

> _Originally posted by RussFairfield_
> <br />Sometimes a little knowledge can be dangerous to some folks......
> 
> &lt;snip&gt;
> ...



Russ,

Your way with words always makes me smile.

Now for my dumb question.... Can you point me to where you speak of your finishing technique?


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## DCBluesman (Feb 18, 2005)

I'm not Russ, but I refer to his articles on a regular basis.  Here's the link http://www.woodcentral.com/russ/russindex.shtml


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## gunsusn20 (Mar 3, 2005)

I am new at turning pens. how do you mix theblo/ca, how much of what and how do you apply it? will it work on all types of wood? Is the linseed oil already boiled? Sorry if I asked a stuipd question. 
             gunsusn20


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## DCBluesman (Mar 3, 2005)

Welcome, Jim.  We're glad to have you aboard!  There are several excellent "how-to" articles in our library.  Simply go the the front page and click on "Articles" for the complete list.  After reading those, if you still have questions or problems, by all means ask away!


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## ldimick (Apr 16, 2005)

When I learned how to do a GOOD CA finish I fell in love with it UNTIL the finish seemed to scratch too easily. The CA just did not hold up as well as I thought it would.

Now I use Satin Deft spray and put 2 or 3 coats on after MMing to 12000 and a deep rub with BLO. I put Ren Wax on top of that for a stronger finish and top that with TSOW for a shinier finish.

One other thought that I have been kicking around. 

Just because a wax says that it is a friction wax does not necessarily mean that it must be rubbed in to the point of producing heat. The friction may be referring to the method of application. When I came to this realization my Ren Wax and TSOW finishes became much better.

I also do not see any problem with using multiple products for the finish. They each can serve a different purpose and act in a compliementary manner.


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## scalawagtoo (Jun 12, 2005)

I've been turning pens for a couple years now and I almost always final sand to 2500 grit, sometimes 1500, and wax my pens with Trewax, which is sold as a wax for hardwood floors, a combination of waxes, including carnauba wax, the hardest natural wax, from a brazilian palm nut, and god knows what trade secret ingredients. I melt the wax in at 3400 rpm, just as hot as I can stand it, let it set up and buff it with a soft cloth.

I get a lasting warm natural glow,  glossy without artificial coatings.  It's nontoxic, food-safe for pen chewers and I advise my customers to use a little wax, beeswax or whatever and buff it with a soft cloth if it gets dull.

I've never had any complaints about a non-durable finish, but then it's only been a couple years.  

I'd be interested in hearing any feedback on this method of finishing.


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## Ron in Drums PA (Jun 12, 2005)

> _Originally posted by scalawagtoo_
> Persnickety people purchase Paul's precision polished pens, pencils, providing personal penmanship perfection plus punctuation power.



Say that three times, fast.


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## dozuki (Jul 19, 2005)

Good thread it's giving me a lot to think about.  Personally I love the CA finish it gives such a nice sheen.  on the other hand if you mess it up you have a real mess and sometimes it takes forever to mm it to a high gloss.  I just had one of those.  So i stripped it all the way down to the wood mm it to about 4000 and put on some sanding sealer and tried my new handy dandy beel buffing system.  WOW....  It gives the wood a really good shine and retains the feel of the wood.  I like it a lot.  I'll have to try it with a friction polish base.  If anyone has used the system i would appreciate some pointers.[]


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## Penmonkey (Aug 5, 2005)

Polyuerathan works great for me. I use three coats with four hours between coats.


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## krose38 (Aug 5, 2005)

I am really enjoying this thread, keep the good information coming. I've used Blo/ca, & Russ's Friction formula but still end up using OTC friction.


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## Jerry Crice (Aug 16, 2005)

Hi, I am also new to pens. I have made 6 slimlines and one cigar. I prefer the cigar as I like the "heft"; I like knowing I have a pen in my hand. I am having problems with the finish. I used HUT P.P.P. (3 coats) and then HUT Crystal Coat (3 coats). The finish looked great when done, however, after half a day of use at work and it is dull in the areas where handled. I am looking for something that is quick and easy. Is this too much to ask without going for a "plastic" feel? I used Zebrawood for the cigar pen.


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## Thumbs (Aug 16, 2005)

Jerry, most finishes need a "cure" time where the pen is not handled  for an extended time usually anywhere from 3-4 days to as many weeks.  Read through the current thread about "Homemade Friction Polish."  It might help.[]


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## Jerry Crice (Aug 17, 2005)

Thanks Bob,  I picked up the ingredients for a "home brew" mixture that looked good. I will remember the curing time.


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