# TSW Discontinued???



## DocStram (Oct 4, 2006)

I just read that Trade Secret Wood was discontinued. Woodpens http://www.woodpens.com/tsw.htm website says "the supplier has removed TSW from the market". Everybody seems to say such wonderful things about it. Was it pulled? Have I miss something here????


----------



## Dario (Oct 4, 2006)

I was surprised to read about it on another thread too.  

Wonder what I missed.[?]


----------



## rduncan (Oct 4, 2006)

I wonder if remaining jars will become collectors items?? Pssst, hey buddy, how much for a slightly used jar??  []


----------



## Dario (Oct 4, 2006)

I heard there are still a few being sold by some retailers.,,not sure how long they will be available though.

Check ArisonaSilhouette and BigRob []


----------



## JimGo (Oct 4, 2006)

Last I heard, Rob had one jar left.  Hmmm...maybe he should auction it off! []


----------



## Mudder (Oct 4, 2006)

> _Originally posted by JimGo_
> <br />Last I heard, Rob had one jar left.  Hmmm...maybe he should auction it off! []



$25.00 []


----------



## gerryr (Oct 4, 2006)

BB still lists it on his site.


----------



## ctEaglesc (Oct 4, 2006)

Get it where ever you can


----------



## BigRob777 (Oct 4, 2006)

I know I usually put my customers first, but I'm keeping my last jar.  I love the stuff.   Sorry folks.  Er, did you say $25.00?[]  Just kidding.  

Edit: Actually, the jar Jim's referring to just sold yesterday.  I held back the other jar for myself a month ago.

Rob


----------



## DocStram (Oct 4, 2006)

I used some on an ash bowl that I turned.  It looks great.


----------



## Randy_ (Oct 5, 2006)

Where's Lou??

BB has posted recently that he still has a stock of the stuff.


----------



## Rifleman1776 (Oct 5, 2006)

Check this out:
  http://www.topoftheline.com/toltradcarwa.html


----------



## JimGo (Oct 5, 2006)

Frank, have you tried that on a pen?


----------



## gerryr (Oct 5, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Rifleman1776_
> <br />Check this out:
> http://www.topoftheline.com/toltradcarwa.html



Is that the stuff that silicone in it?


----------



## Dario (Oct 5, 2006)

> _Originally posted by gerryr_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...



I have been tempted for almost a year now to try this product...but never did.  

How can one tell if it does have silicone in it?


----------



## OKLAHOMAN (Oct 5, 2006)

Dario; I called them this morning and got a recorded msg. from their tec. dept. seems that they are in from 1-5 and will have to call back on the msg they gave me their e-mail addres to ask questions. will e- mail today to see if it has silicone. E-mail address is ask@topoftheline.com


----------



## ctEaglesc (Oct 5, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Dario_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...



So what if it does?
Regardless what product you use if it is the FINAL thing you are going to put on the pen(ON TOP OF THE FINISH) what difference does it make?
As long as you don't go spraking it in the shop as an air freshener and contaminate would that you intend to put a finish on there shouldn't be a problem.


----------



## OKLAHOMAN (Oct 5, 2006)

> _Originally posted by wood-of-1kind_
> <br />If anyone is interested in TSW, I still have some to sell to customers. Same price as before $9.00 USD per jar + shipping.
> 
> -Peter-


Peter check your e-mail and paypal account  paid for 2 jars and thanks


----------



## DCBluesman (Oct 5, 2006)

This will be my only post on the subject.  All of you clever folks who have chosen to deride the product, make accusations as to the chemical make-up, etc. will have to do so without any further response from me.

First, yes, TSW has been discontinued.  No, it is not the same product as the car finish.  The differences are numerous.  I realize that there are many out there who claim to have proof that they are the same.  Members on this forum are will assign credibility as they deem appropriate.  That's good enough for me.

Why take it off the market?  Because it is not particularly profitable and I get sick of having to defend both it and myself.  It's as simple as that.

To those of you who have stood by the product (and me), I thank you.  To my detractors, kiss my ^$$.


----------



## DWK5150 (Oct 5, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Dario_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...



Dario,

Its great stuff. I have actually used top of the line for years to get my supplies.  WEll worth the money.


----------



## ctEaglesc (Oct 5, 2006)

Lou-
Though I will miss TSW when my supply runs out, I for one understand your actions.
Thanks for the posting your reasons.
We have spoken of this and I know that it was just as much a labor of love for members of this group as anything else.
Ironic isn't it that it was just about two years ago this time when yuo requested members of this group to act as gunea pigs to test "Presidents Choice" and everyone loved it.Theior input also prompted you to make changes inthe product that made it even better.
Again thanks.
Eagle


----------



## Dario (Oct 5, 2006)

Thanks Lou,

I have 2 bottles of TSW and at the rate I use it...I have enough for atleast a couple of years.  Hopefully, you'll put the product back on the market before then [] [].


----------



## Skye (Oct 5, 2006)

Or just sell it black market to a select few peeps. *wink wink, nudge nudge*


----------



## Paul in OKC (Oct 5, 2006)

> _Originally posted by DCBluesman_
> <br />This will be my only post on the subject.  All of you clever folks who have chosen to deride the product, make accusations as to the chemical make-up, etc. will have to do so without any further response from me.
> 
> First, yes, TSW has been discontinued.  No, it is not the same product as the car finish.  The differences are numerous.  I realize that there are many out there who claim to have proof that they are the same.  Members on this forum are will assign credibility as they deem appropriate.  That's good enough for me.
> ...



Thanks, Lou. Very much understood. The good thing about my supply is that currently I am only making pens at about 2 or 3 a year, so it should last a life time[]


----------



## DocStram (Oct 5, 2006)

My deepest apologies to Lou.  I didn't mean to stir up a fuss by originating this post.  I had recently purchased three containers of TSW. Although I didn't need 3 I figured I would just store 2 of them away for future use.  I have to admit that I became concerned when I heard it had been pulled from the market.  Thus my inquiry as to why it was discontinued.

Both Lou and Rob generously offered to buy back my TSW. After reading Lou's post I declined their offer.  I have used TSW on pens and a bowl that I recently turned. I was very impressed with the results. 

Lou, I hope that as you read all of the favorable posts about TSW that you can feel the support and appreciation for your efforts. You've been here a hell of a lot longer than I have.  I can only hope that one day I have a even a fraction of the respect that IAP members have for you.

With that said, I am going to ask Jeff to kindly delete this whole post so we can, in at least one way, help you put this behind you.

With respect,
Al


----------



## ctEaglesc (Oct 5, 2006)

> _Originally posted by DocStram_
> <br />My deepest apologies to Lou.  I didn't mean to stir up a fuss by originating this post.  I had recently purchased three containers of TSW. Although I didn't need 3 I figured I would just store 2 of them away for future use.  I have to admit that I became concerned when I heard it had been pulled from the market.  Thus my inquiry as to why it was discontinued.
> 
> Both Lou and Rob generously offered to buy back my TSW. After reading Lou's post I declined their offer.  I have used TSW on pens and a bowl that I recently turned. I was very impressed with the results.
> ...



I would hope this post remains in tact so that the people who ARE pleased with TSW will say so <b>HERE AND IN PUBLIC</b> 
Rumors and innaccurate information have been rife concerning TSW and Lou, buyt apologies and retractions seem to "dissappear" if indeed they are offered.
Please Jeff leave this thread up!


----------



## Ligget (Oct 5, 2006)

I hope it goes back on sale soon too, I love the stuff![]


----------



## DocStram (Oct 5, 2006)

I understand what you're saying eagle.  At the same time, I have the feeling that Lou is just sick and tired of hearing wild accusations. I think he's just worn out by it all. I think I'll just ask Lou to decide what he wants done with it.


----------



## wood-of-1kind (Oct 5, 2006)

To paraphrase an old line:

Not only am I satisfied distributor of TSW, I'm also a satisfied client.

Thank you Lou for creating a wonderful product.

-Peter-
[]


----------



## its_virgil (Oct 5, 2006)

I too have been using TSW since I was asked to test it for Lou when it was President's Choice and Lou was President if the IAP. Seems like good things have a way of ruffing other's feathers and well....we all suffer. Thanks Lou for all you've done for us, the IAP and for TSW. I have two jars and I know where there is more and I'm not telling[] until I get me another jar or two. I trust what Lou tells us and I too hope TSW appears back on the market...Thanks Lou.
Do a good turn daily!
Don


> _Originally posted by wood-of-1kind_
> <br />To paraphrase an old line:
> 
> Not only am I satisfied distributor of TSW, I'm also a satisfied client.
> ...


----------



## redbulldog (Oct 5, 2006)

All:
I AM A VERY SATISFIED USER!!!


----------



## JimGo (Oct 5, 2006)

I don't know, Lou...sounds like there are enough devoted fans (into which I also include myself) that you could justify increasing the cost a bit to make it more worth your while.

If you decide to go that route, I'd LOVE to be able to get some REALLY small jars/containers of it (basically "sample size" good enough for three or four applications) for some of my better customers, so I can get them hooked on it too!  Then I can sell them the bigger jars!


----------



## ctEaglesc (Oct 5, 2006)

> _Originally posted by JimGo_
> <br />I don't know, Lou...sounds like there are enough devoted fans (into which I also include myself) that you could justify increasing the cost a bit to make it more worth your while.
> 
> If you decide to go that route, I'd LOVE to be able to get some REALLY small jars/containers of it (basically "sample size" good enough for three or four applications) for some of my better customers, so I can get them hooked on it too!  Then I can sell them the bigger jars!



Yeah! Kind of like Tide in the washing machines!


----------



## gerryr (Oct 5, 2006)

Another vote from a very satisfied user.  I can't understand why anyone would knock this product.  I can buff all day with White Diamond and the finish will still look even better after I put the TSW on it.  And it sure beats the smell of Ren Wax.[V]


----------



## ctEaglesc (Oct 5, 2006)

> _Originally posted by gerryr_
> <br />Another vote from a very satisfied user.  I can't understand why anyone would knock this product.  I can buff all day with White Diamond and the finish will still look even better after I put the TSW on it.  <b>And it sure beats the smell of Ren Wax</b> .[V]



I do remember someone( I think it was one of the testers)couldn't stand the coconut smell(maybe THAT"S the secret ingredient!, afterall I'm sure there's oil it the essence) 
O.K. who's going to fess up to THAT memory jogger?


----------



## Mudder (Oct 5, 2006)

I have used TSW and Iâ€™m a satisfied customer. I understand Louâ€™s reasons for discontinuing it and I respect his decisions. I have some left and I will cherish what I have until the sad day that it is all gone.


----------



## Geo in Winnipeg (Oct 5, 2006)

Just one more satisfied customer here.


----------



## clthayer (Oct 5, 2006)

Add me to the list of very satisfied users, and very sorry that I will not be able to get more.

Christian


----------



## Rudy Vey (Oct 5, 2006)

Very satisfied customer here, too - love the smell.
BTW, just ordered two tubs from Bill Baumbeck (AZ), so if you need some now - get it from him!


----------



## ctEaglesc (Oct 5, 2006)

It is rumored that only true pen" artists" can appreciate the finish TSW imparts on a pen.[}]


----------



## alamocdc (Oct 5, 2006)

I too am a satisfied customer and will be very disappointed when I run out. So I guess I'll start praying that it stays at the current level like the widow woman's cruses of meal and oil did (Bible reference for those that didn't get it).


----------



## Trapshooter (Oct 5, 2006)

I have finished my last two pens with this so I have a fairly new can  left.  I was hoping to keep it as my finish of choice,  I am saddened to hear we may not be able to continue with this finish.  If there ever is such a list, please ad my email address with those who wish to continue to purchase this product.[][]


----------



## TBone (Oct 5, 2006)

Being a newbie, I have not used TSW.  However, there are people on this thread whose opinion, I realize, should be respected and if it comes back I will be one of the first to place an order.


----------



## angboy (Oct 5, 2006)

> _Originally posted by ctEaglesc_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...


 Well I was one of the ones who confessed I like the smell of ren wax!!


----------



## gerryr (Oct 5, 2006)

> _Originally posted by TBone_
> <br />Being a newbie, I have not used TSW.  However, there are people on this thread whose opinion, I realize, should be respected and if it comes back I will be one of the first to place an order.



Get some from AZ Silhouette before he runs out.


----------



## Tea Clipper (Oct 6, 2006)

I gave it a try a few months ago and quite frankly I was not impressed with it at all.  I thought it was extremely over priced but because it had been so well received by others on this forum, I just had to see what all the fuss was about.  Oh well, can't win them all I guess &lt;shrug&gt;.


----------



## BigRob777 (Oct 6, 2006)

All,
I'm really happy to see Lou's support come out of the jar (corny, I know).  I have to admit that it was a good seller for me and I used it before I sold it.  I love the smell too, but the effect it has on a pen is awesome.  I wish I had more to sell and I'll be sad when my own personal supply runs out, but at my rate of use, that'll be a long time from now.  

I have no doubts in Lou's veracity, or I wouldn't have sold his product.  It's a dirty shame that he's been trashed like he has, but it's good to know that people still believe in him and his product.  I kind of think of Lou as a celebrity of sorts.  I finally get to meet him in just over a week and that makes me smile.  He's been my mentor in pen turning and I couldn't have asked for a better one.

Lou, I salute you.
Rob


----------



## mick (Oct 6, 2006)

I'm another user of TSW that is totally amazed at what it can do to compliment the finish of a pen. The ease of use and small amount required made it a great buy. Lou I hope you'll not let a few deter you and will put it back on the market.............hopefully before I run out!


----------



## Mudder (Oct 6, 2006)

> _Originally posted by BigRob777_
> <br />
> Lou, I salute you.



[}] I salute Lou every chance I get........... First I take my hand and hold it in front of my face with my fingers pointing skyward and so that my palm is facing my face. Then I take my thumb and fold it across my palm and lower three fingers as if I was making a fist [}]







I kid with Lou because he's a good friend and has a nice sense of humor, besides if he gets mad at me I'll just drive down to DC and kick him in the..........(shin)!


----------



## ctEaglesc (Oct 6, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Mudder_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...


[]
Table saw or chop saw accident?[}][]


----------



## rfreeouf (Oct 6, 2006)

I use TSW and like it as well. Lou I hope you reconsider at some point to put it back on the market. I can understand your reasoning for pulling the product. It is always unfortunant that a few have to ruin something good for the majority.


----------



## Rifleman1776 (Oct 6, 2006)

> _Originally posted by JimGo_
> <br />Frank, have you tried that on a pen?



Not yet. Plan to.


----------



## ctEaglesc (Oct 6, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Rifleman1776_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...





> Not yet. Plan to.


Let me see if I have this straight.
It was you who originally made the accusation that TSW was the same as this other product(the automotive one).
You sent me a copied and pasted e-mail that accused Lou of fraud and you have not even used the product  that you "say" is the same as Lous'?
Let me go for the $64,000 dollar question.
Frank-
<b>Have you ever tried Lous' product... TSW or Presidents Choice top coating finish?</b>
If the answer is what I think it is going to be, myself and a  lot of other people will question anything you put in print in the future.( if they don't already)


----------



## Dario (Oct 6, 2006)

Oh no!  [:0]

I think this thread is spiralling down again! [B)][V][xx(]


----------



## RogerGarrett (Oct 6, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Dario_
> <br />Oh no!  [:0]
> 
> I think this thread is spiralling down again! [B)][V][xx(]



Me thinketh you have a point............and as much as I support Lou and his product, and as much as he would probably feel vindicated if it goes that way, it looks like it might get ugly if people are not conservative in interpretation/response..........[xx(]

Hold on to your hats folks! [:0]

Best,
Roger Garrett


----------



## ctEaglesc (Oct 6, 2006)

> _Originally posted by RogerGarrett_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...





> _Originally posted by Dario_
> <br />Oh no!  [:0]
> 
> I think this thread is spiralling down again! [B)][V][xx(]



<b>The fact TSW is not being made any more and the circumstances that surrounded its' demise aren't exactly uplifting to begin with, wouldn't you say?</b>


----------



## Boss302 (Oct 6, 2006)

As yet another satisfied customer, I think it's an excellent product that does what it's suppose to do, which is put an awesome shine on your finished product.  Personally, I don't care where it came from or how it was made.  It works and I'll continue to buy the product.  PLEASE reconsider your decision to pull the product.  You obviously have the support from the people who use your product.  Don't worry about the couple of non-believers.


----------



## Tom McMillan (Oct 6, 2006)

Wow, so sorry to hear about TSW---will miss it greatly.  I've appreciated Lou's friendship greatly too, --- he has always been very kind and thoughtful to me!!!  Thanks Lou!!


----------



## Mudder (Oct 6, 2006)

> _Originally posted by RogerGarrett_
> <br />Me thinketh you have a point............and as much as I support Lou and his product, and as much as he would probably feel vindicated if it goes that way, it looks like it might get ugly if people are not conservative in interpretation/response..........[xx(]



So what are you really saying?

Should we let those who make accusations without knowledge or proof be free to attack?


----------



## Gary Max (Oct 7, 2006)

Lets see I still have 3 full unopened containers and one that is half full. But what am I going to do when that's gone. It's not like that's going to last forever since I use it on every pen and sit around at shows and clean finger prints off with it.


----------



## wdcav1952 (Oct 7, 2006)

I did not speak up when the last of the wax wars broke out, choosing to sit on the sidelines.  I regret that, and feel fresh regret everytime I pick up my container of TSW to finish a pen.

I must agree with those who wonder if the name change from President's Choice to TSW perhaps started the conflict.  I guess we will never know.  

Mainly, I regret not speaking up for Lou.

For What It's Worth,


----------



## DocStram (Oct 7, 2006)

Below is a copy of a post that Jeff made in a related thread entitled "To the Developer of TSW". 
_
"The real ethical and congenial thing for us to do is to let Lou make his personal business decisions in peace. Continually hashing this out in public is disrespectful to his right of privacy, and further polarizes the issue. If Lou was posting here, I would not say this, but he made one post on the issue and obviously was not interested in discussing it or having it discussed. Please, if you have something to say to Lou regarding TSW, send him an email.
Jeff in Westlake, OH"_

With that said, and as originator of this thread, I respectfully request that we conclude our discussion of this matter.


----------



## elody21 (Oct 8, 2006)

[V] I love the stuff and am almost out. If someone has some to sell let me know. Lou I think it is great and makes me think of the beach each time I open it! Alice


----------



## wayneis (Oct 9, 2006)

I think that whome ever is responsible for TSW being taken off the shelves owes Lou and everyone else a big apology.  Come on Lou, you have a whole lot of customers who want TSW so how about getting some out here to us.

Another pissed off satisfied customer,

Wayne


----------



## L32 (Oct 9, 2006)

I agree with Wayne. I to am a very satified customer. Pissed off cannot fully explain my feelings right now. I have customers who after a while of using a pen bring it back asking me if I can put that "new feeling" back on the pen I clean the pen and put TSW back on and they leave happy. More times than not ordering another pen. To me TSW did not stand for "Trade Secret for Wood it stood for "The Secret Weapon". Those few who couldnt keep their Dimwitted mouths shut with there know it all attitudes have deprived me of a great selling tool. I read this thread late and have not been able to find anyone that has any left to sell. BB is out and everyone else I know is out If anyone has any left please let me know as I would like to stock up. 
Lou, if your listening please dont let a few idiots who cant tell the diffrence between wood polish and car polish run you off.
Thanks for a great product


----------



## DocStram (Oct 9, 2006)

Below is a copy of a post that Jeff made in a related thread entitled "To the Developer of TSW".

"The real ethical and congenial thing for us to do is to let Lou make his personal business decisions in peace. Continually hashing this out in public is disrespectful to his right of privacy, and further polarizes the issue. If Lou was posting here, I would not say this, but he made one post on the issue and obviously was not interested in discussing it or having it discussed. Please, if you have something to say to Lou regarding TSW, send him an email.
Jeff in Westlake, OH"
<b>
With that said, and as originator of this thread, I respectfully request that we conclude our discussion of this matter.</b>


----------



## wood-of-1kind (Oct 10, 2006)

I think this discussion has been 'liberating' and shows good support for Lou and TSW. Silencing this discussion is just short of censorship and I vote for  continuation.

-Peter-[]


----------



## Charles (Oct 10, 2006)

Lou, withso much rave about the product, I tried looking for it at all the major turning retail location, Rockler, Woodcraft, Woodwright, When no one had heard of it I insisted on them trying to obtain it. I since got a bottle and LOVE it! I took examples into said stores and when they still didn't have it have talked up the product around the Houston area. Sorry to see it go away, Hopefully we will see it back on the market. I really like it and would love to get a couple more bottles. I use it on all my small turnings, atomizers,perfume pens, braclet asst. and of course PENS!! Sorry to see it go, Great products are hard to find and this was one of them!!!


----------



## JasonF (Oct 10, 2006)

Lou, any interest/possibility in turning the TSW operation over to someone else in order to keep so many penturners happy? I would imagine someone would be willing to come to terms with you.


----------



## jeff (Oct 10, 2006)

Folks you are talking to thin air. Lou has not visited the site in many days. Please, if you have something to say to Lou, send him an email. Thanks


----------



## DCBluesman (Oct 10, 2006)

Thanks for the kind words and the many emails.  They are greatly appreciated.  If or when there is something to report, I'll certainly check in for an announcement.


----------



## melogic (Oct 11, 2006)

I just received 2 containers of TSW from Sheila at Pens of Color. I'm not sure how much she has left, but you may want to get some. www.pocwoodworking.com


Edit: I just went back to her site and can't find it anywhere. I guess she is out of it as well. Sorry![]
I guess you could still give her a call to verify that she is out of it.


----------



## JimGo (Oct 11, 2006)

Yeah, nice gloat Mark!


----------



## LanceD (Oct 11, 2006)

> _Originally posted by JimGo_
> <br />Yeah, nice gloat Mark!



Gloat ? Here's a gloat [}][]







<br />


----------



## gerryr (Oct 11, 2006)

You may be in trouble Lance.[]  Better keep that stuff locked up and outa sight.[]


----------



## L32 (Oct 11, 2006)

As of late I have recieved Emails from some members of this forum suggesting I apologize for my previous remarks yesterday. To Them I say no.
 I continue to stand by my remarks and the insults to My Military and law enforcement careers made buy some were childish and uncalled for. 
I only mention it here because I was able to respond to one but my computer lost the addresses of others and this is my response to them. 
I will not mention names they know who they are. [!] Everyone else please excuse this post


----------



## Dario (Oct 11, 2006)

> _Originally posted by LanceD_
> <br />
> Gloat ? Here's a gloat [}][]
> 
> ...



Lance....my friend!!!  LOL [][}]

Kidding aside, your popularity may have just jumped a few notches LOL []

(BTW, Just making sure you won't mis-interpret the joke/message.  I am not hitting you for a jar.  I still have a couple of it myself [])


----------



## Paul in OKC (Oct 11, 2006)

> _Originally posted by LanceD_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...



Show off[]


----------



## chisel (Oct 21, 2006)

> _Originally posted by ctEaglesc_
> 
> I would hope this post remains in tact so that the people who ARE pleased with TSW will say so <b>HERE AND IN PUBLIC</b>
> Rumors and innaccurate information have been rife concerning TSW and Lou, buyt apologies and retractions seem to "dissappear" if indeed they are offered.
> Please Jeff leave this thread up!



Perhaps the reason why no apologies are offered is because the rumors have never been disproved. At least not that I am aware of. 

What I have seen is that when certain information is brought to public attention, Lou then threatens people with lawsuits. I have seen it happen publicly, and I have seen evidence of it happening via e-mail. 

Was it a good product? I have no idea. Many people have raved about it. 

Was the car wax used as it's base? Unless someone has it analyzed, along with the car wax, it is an open and fair question.


----------



## DocStram (Oct 22, 2006)

> _Originally posted by DocStram_
> <br />Below is a copy of a post that Jeff made in a related thread entitled "To the Developer of TSW".
> _
> "The real ethical and congenial thing for us to do is to let Lou make his personal business decisions in peace. Continually hashing this out in public is disrespectful to his right of privacy, and further polarizes the issue. If Lou was posting here, I would not say this, but he made one post on the issue and obviously was not interested in discussing it or having it discussed. Please, if you have something to say to Lou regarding TSW, send him an email.
> ...


----------



## DCBluesman (Oct 22, 2006)

> _Originally posted by chisel_
> <br />
> Perhaps the reason why no apologies are offered is because the rumors have never been disproved. At least not that I am aware of.
> 
> ...


Since you have <b>NOTHING to add </b>to this thread, why have you posted?  Because you are just another <u>jackass</u> who likes to stir the pot?  And likes to keep it anonymous, since you don't have a name in the Members section?  And who do you suggest pay for a test of the two products?  And why should I defend against assinine comments by people who offer no proof?  Would you defend yourself against my statement that I heard <b>you are, in reality, a child molester</b>?  And how about if I created an email message, in the form of one of those "Urban Myths", which stated it as fact.  What then?  I've left you and those other <u>closed-minded, jealous jerks</u> to your own devices, hoping that you would get the idea that you have only a tiny amount of support and that the support comes from the <u>circle-jerk boys</u> over at Chips and Dust.  Well, no more.  Get a life, chisel (or whatever the hell your name is)...<b>and quit taking your crap out on me</b>.


----------



## gerryr (Oct 22, 2006)

Bravo, Lou.


----------



## chisel (Oct 22, 2006)

> _Originally posted by DCBluesman_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...



What an odd response....

I wrote a calm and reasonable post. Very odd indeed.


----------



## chisel (Oct 22, 2006)

> _Originally posted by gerryr_
> <br />Bravo, Lou.



 A calm and reasonable response would get a bravo from me. A rant is simply odd.


----------



## gerryr (Oct 22, 2006)

Chisel or chiseler might be more appropriate, your post deserves a poke in the eye with a sharp stick.  You have no knowledge of the product, so any post by you about it is lacks even a hint of intelligence.


----------



## Woodlvr (Oct 22, 2006)

Has anyone found a supplier as of yet?  I have not ttried it as of yet but would like to purchase some after hearing you guys rave about how good it is.

Mike in Utah


----------



## rtjw (Oct 22, 2006)

> _Originally posted by DCBluesman_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...



Just for clarification, Chisel is not one of those cicle jerk boys in the Chips and Dust.


----------



## ctEaglesc (Oct 22, 2006)

FWIW
I have run into chisel on another site.My guess is he has more than one account this one is used for trolling purposes.

Jeff reinstated my account on or about August 8th.Note Chisels membership date.
At the time he quoted my post on this subject he had a total of 10 posts.
Since there is little background information on him you can get insight about him by readinghis previous posts.
Click on his user name and go the the non archived posts in which he responded.
(BTW chisel what happened to your"peace" signature line.?)


----------



## ctEaglesc (Oct 22, 2006)

> Just for clarification, Chisel is not one of those cicle jerk boys in the Chips and Dust.



No one ever said he was.


----------



## rtjw (Oct 22, 2006)

> _Originally posted by ctEaglesc_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...



Just making sure everyone knew that.


----------



## Mudder (Oct 22, 2006)

Chisel?

Hmmm,

That name seems to ring a bell.


So Chisel,

Why don't you have it analyzed?
Why don't one of these other folks who make the accusations have it analyzed and speak some facts? I've seen the product and the maker slandered by several people on this and other forum's but I've never seen one of these people come up with any facts.

What I have seen to date is some words that were cut and pasted from an alleged email, supposedly from a representative of the company which I find highly suspect because the company has a privacy policy stated on their website and the person who posted this alleged email has a history of coming up with bogus crap to try to smudge the name of reputable companies.


Truthfully, I know all I need to know about the product..... It works well.


----------



## wdcav1952 (Oct 22, 2006)

Chisel,

Add me to the list of those who feel that hiding behind a user name to knowingly stir the pot on an obviously hot button issue is not appropriate.

With respect to Lou's "odd response" perhaps you should consider how long Lou has been attacked on this an other issues.  While Lou did not give you a civil response, I feel that his short fuse on this issue is certainly understandable.

Others who have spoken out on controversial issues have had the decency to do so without hiding behind a screen name.  Since you choose to hide in this way, I feel that your remarks are not worth considering and should be ignored.


----------



## chisel (Oct 22, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Mudder_
> <br />Chisel?
> 
> Hmmm,
> ...



Since when is asking questions equal to slander? 

I first saw somebody post a link here to the car wax site years ago. He posted it here, and was bashed with about five pages of posts. People called him all sorts of nasty names, and yet he responded with calm and reasonable posts. Nobody answered the actual observation. 

Why does the product description match so closely to that of the car wax?

Why is the product name nearly identical?

Why is the application process nearly identical?

These are simply obvious questions, that any reasonable person might ask when presented with this information. The questions are consistently answered with threats of lawsuits, questioning the credibility of the person who is asking the questions, and name calling. That is highly suspicious.  It raises even more questions. 

I really am not sure why people get so riled up about somebody making simple and obvious observations, and asking a few questions. It makes no sense to me.


----------



## gerryr (Oct 22, 2006)

Obviously, you carry some sort of grudge against Lou.  That's your problem and your perogative.  Lou doesn't need to prove anything.  So what if the names are similar, that proves nothing.  I used to use a product called Classic Car Wax, which had the same application process.  There are only a couple of ways to apply something like this.  If you think the two products are the same, go test it yourself and prove us all wrong.  Wouldn't that be fun?  Quit hiding behind anonymity and harassing Lou.


----------



## Ron in Drums PA (Oct 22, 2006)

> _Originally posted by chisel_
> Why does the product description match so closely to that of the car wax?
> 
> Why is the product name nearly identical?
> ...




There is a difference between questions and accusations.

Please back up your accusations with some facts.


----------



## chisel (Oct 22, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Ron in Drums PA_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...



Please tell me where I am accusing anybody, of anything...I will happily comply.


----------



## Mudder (Oct 22, 2006)

> _Originally posted by chisel_
> <br />
> I really am not sure why people get so riled up about somebody making simple and obvious observations, and asking a few questions. It makes no sense to me.



Maybe people get so riled up because others are so cowardly that they need to "hide" behind a screen name.

Funny thing is that you cannot hide behind your IP address, it will give you away every time.

BTW:
Most any product with carnauba wax in it will have very similar instructions. The wax is very hard and needs to have softeners added. Those softeners flash off fairly rapidly therefore you have a short "open" time. If you had bothered to do any research you would have known that. Instead you choose to hide behind your name and try to stir up controversy. I cannot find one post from you that says anything positive so nothing that you say has any credibility or validity as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## Blind_Squirrel (Oct 22, 2006)

Lou, 

I just want to say that I <b>LOVE</b> your product. So much so that I grabbed up an additional 3 jars as soon as I heard you had stopped selling it.  I do hope that in the future you will reconsider and begin selling it again.  It makes a good pen into a great pen.  

It is my hope and desire to meet with you one day in person and shake your hand for inventing such a wonderful product.


----------



## ctEaglesc (Oct 22, 2006)

> I cannot find one post from you that says anything positive so nothing that you say has any credibility or validity as far as I'm concerned.



In the interest of accuracy I did find one Positive post,It wasn't hard, before this recent series of posts there were only 10.
On my thread about the herringbone desk set Chisel posted( right after my reinstatement)



> I like the fountain pen, much more than the other one. Personal preference




edit in [/blue]


----------



## DCBluesman (Oct 22, 2006)

> _Originally posted by chisel_
> <br />Since when is asking questions equal to slander?
> 
> I first saw somebody post a link here to the car wax site years ago. He posted it here, and was bashed with about five pages of posts. People called him all sorts of nasty names, and yet he responded with calm and reasonable posts. Nobody answered the actual observation.
> ...



Now you are showing yourself to be an idiot AND a liar.

You didn't ask any questions.  You made a dumbass statement based on hearsay.  You have, by your own admission, no knowledge of the product.  Your original post neither asked questions nor contributed any information.  

In terms of you  first seeing a link here years ago, that is NOT possible.  The product had NO NAME years ago.  And when it was given a name, it was called President's Choice until one or two punk-assed posters decided to take exception to that name.  As for the name Trade Secret, do a google search.  There are HUNDREDS of products called Trade Secret.

Application technique?  Take a look at virtually any polish or wax...even Renaissance Wax...and you will see roughly the same techiniques.  Maybe, just maybe you should do some research before you make yourself look so foolish.

Questions have been asked and answered on this forum many, many times.  Use the search function.  I've given the bulk of the ingredients, leaving out only the proprietary portions that make the product distinct.  I have withstood the "due diligence" work of several large businesses who have carried the product.  If you think they didn't pull out all the stops to assure themselves that they would not become party to some misdeeds, you are thinking like a neanderthal.

As for my hardline stance against you and the others who choose to attempt to sully the product or me, you're damned right.  I'm sick of your bull.  You've made 3-4 posts and added nothing but questions about your intelligence, intent, honesty and honor.  Come out of the closet and let us see your face.  Or do you prefer to hide behind a white sheet and hood?

To the rest of you, I apologize for dragging this on in public.  I won't argue anymore with "chisel" or any of the other idiots who want to drag this topic up repeatedly.  I've decided that from this point forward, I will <b>IGNORE THE IGNORANT</b>.


----------



## chisel (Oct 22, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Mudder_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...



IP address? LOL, Johnny and I have been through that one already. Unless you can show that I am a terrorist threat, or have broken some law...good luck on the one. My IP will change throughout the day, because of the way my service provider routes services. 

Anyway, my identity is irrelevant. 

As far as positivity is concerned, that is a matter of perspective I guess. I haven't called anybody any names, unlike others.


----------



## Mudder (Oct 22, 2006)

> _Originally posted by chisel_
> <br />[
> Anyway, my identity is irrelevant.



"And now I know who you are,
I wasn't that hard,
Just to figure you out"


----------



## chisel (Oct 22, 2006)

> _Originally posted by DCBluesman_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...





> Now you are showing yourself to be an idiot AND a liar.
> 
> You didn't ask any questions.  You made a dumbass statement based on hearsay.  You have, by your own admission, no knowledge of the product.  Your original post neither asked questions nor contributed any information.



There are two questions in my original post.


> In terms of you  first seeing a link here years ago, that is NOT possible.  The product had NO NAME years ago.  And when it was given a name, it was called President's Choice until one or two punk-assed posters decided to take exception to that name.  As for the name Trade Secret, do a google search.  There are HUNDREDS of products called Trade Secret.



Technically, it was one year and seven months ago. Rounded off to two years.



> Application technique?  Take a look at virtually any polish or wax...even Renaissance Wax...and you will see roughly the same techiniques.  Maybe, just maybe you should do some research before you make yourself look so foolish.



If asking questions makes me look foolish, then so be it. How else is somebody supposed to aquire information?



> Questions have been asked and answered on this forum many, many times.  Use the search function.  I've given the bulk of the ingredients, leaving out only the proprietary portions that make the product distinct.  I have withstood the "due diligence" work of several large businesses who have carried the product.  If you think they didn't pull out all the stops to assure themselves that they would not become party to some misdeeds, you are thinking like a neanderthal.



Who said anything about misdeeds? As far as I know, you can sell a product that contains other products, so long as they are not patented. I am not saying that your product contains the other product, but if it did...there is no misdeed there. 

As an aside, why not share your secret formula with all of your devoted customers? I mean, since you are not going to make it anymore, and so many people like it...why not let the cat out of the bag? Why not hand it over to somebody else to make? 



> As for my hardline stance against you and the others who choose to attempt to sully the product or me, you're damned right.  I'm sick of your bull.  You've made 3-4 posts and added nothing but questions about your intelligence, intent, honesty and honor.  Come out of the closet and let us see your face.  Or do you prefer to hide behind a white sheet and hood?
> 
> To the rest of you, I apologize for dragging this on in public.  I won't argue anymore with "chisel" or any of the other idiots who want to drag this topic up repeatedly.  I've decided that from this point forward, I will <b>IGNORE THE IGNORANT</b>.



Once again, you choose to attack...when somebody makes observations, and asks questions. That just doesn't seem par for the course for business owners.


----------



## TBone (Oct 22, 2006)

This has to be the first time I've ever seen anyone called out for not proving what's in their product.  Try that with Colonel Sanders and they will laugh in your face.  If someone wants to know the ingredients, pay to have it tested.  Lou was selling the product and people were buying, that's all that matters.  Personally I don't care what's in it, it obviously works and I wish I could purchase some.  If you don't like it or think it's car wax, don't buy it or buy the car wax.   As for the name and the directions, the above posts answer that question.  Just how many ways can there be to apply wax?  I wouldn't care if it were called Turtle Wax or Johnson's Paste Wax.  If I thought they were the same, I'd purchase both and use which I preferred but wouldn't expect the company to prove their's was different.


----------



## chisel (Oct 22, 2006)

> _Originally posted by TBone_
> <br />This has to be the first time I've ever seen anyone called out for not proving what's in their product.  Try that with Colonel Sanders and they will laugh in your face.  If someone wants to know the ingredients, pay to have it tested.  Lou was selling the product and people were buying, that's all that matters.  Personally I don't care what's in it, it obviously works and I wish I could purchase some.  If you don't like it or think it's car wax, don't buy it or buy the car wax.   As for the name and the directions, the above posts answer that question.  Just how many ways can there be to apply wax?  I wouldn't care if it were called Turtle Wax or Johnson's Paste Wax.  If I thought they were the same, I'd purchase both and use which I preferred but wouldn't expect the company to prove their's was different.



Thank you for a reasonable post. That is how I would expect an adult to respond.


----------



## ctEaglesc (Oct 22, 2006)

Chisel-
You may or may not recall I have an <b>Excellent</b> memory.
I can pull up interesting posts on this site because of the excellent search function.
<b>One thing you may not recall is on another site you posted you are a member of a very select pen turning group that requires the prospective members to submit their work and that particular piece gets voted on by 5 other people.</b>
You may think you are anonymous but I can narrow it down to one of approximately 70 people.
What I find interesting is that you still decide to remain anonymous.(but you are not as anonymous as you think)

This remark in no way is meant to cast aspersions or be derrogatory to  anyone. It is just a statement, much like the remarks that Chisel has made in this thread.


----------



## jkoehler (Oct 22, 2006)

my question is.... what the hell difference does it make what is in it? if you like the results, you will use it. if you don't like the results, you won't use it. 
do you call the beer company to find out the ingredients to you favorite beverage?
do you call the maker of your favorite BBQ sauce to find out the ingredients?
or. do you just keep using it because you like it. 
like others on this site, i wish i had a chance to try it. i have read so many great reviews of it. 
and i for one could care less what is in it as long as i like the results. 
so. if there is a list of people that would like to buy some if there is a "hidden stash" found, or if the maker decides to grace us with his great product again, please add me to it.


----------



## chisel (Oct 22, 2006)

> _Originally posted by jkoehler_
> <br />my question is.... what the hell difference does it make what is in it? if you like the results, you will use it. if you don't like the results, you won't use it.
> do you call the beer company to find out the ingredients to you favorite beverage?
> do you call the maker of your favorite BBQ sauce to find out the ingredients?
> ...



What I don't understand is why the formula isn't just shared with everybody. If Lou won't make it anymore, and so many people like it...why not just let people have it? He wouldn't lose a penny by sharing it, he is just depriving people who want it.


----------



## Dario (Oct 22, 2006)

> _Originally posted by jkoehler_
> <br />my question is.... what the hell difference does it make what is in it? if you like the results, you will use it. if you don't like the results, you won't use it.
> do you call the beer company to find out the ingredients to you favorite beverage?
> do you call the maker of your favorite BBQ sauce to find out the ingredients?
> ...



I agree...good post! 

If it works and you are satisfied with the results, that's all that matters. []


----------



## wood-of-1kind (Oct 22, 2006)

I think it's time to turn some pens and forget the 'saltiness' of this post and while I'm at it, I'll apply some TSW to my pen(s) to make them that much better.

-Peter-


----------



## Ron in Drums PA (Oct 22, 2006)

> _Originally posted by TBone_
> <br />This has to be the first time I've ever seen anyone called out for not proving what's in their product.  Try that with Colonel Sanders and they will laugh in your face.



100% correct

ALL finishes on the market are made from the same ingredients.

ALL polishes on the market contain wax

This goes for just about every product imaginable.
Corn Flakes - all contain corn
Hambergers -  the good ones contain beef
Gasoline - you get the idea
Pizza
and so on
---

Jeff, maybe it's time to lock this thread


----------



## dfurlano (Oct 22, 2006)

Your last point suggests your motive and is most likely for your own benefit, why else remain nameless.  

If Lou were to "share" the ingredients as you naively suggest then he would lose any possibility of revenue. But if the product was made as you claim then why would you want then ingredients, unless it was for your personal benefit?  





> _Originally posted by chisel_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## TBone (Oct 22, 2006)

Why should Lou give up the ingredients?  He owns something and it's his perogative to keep it or give it away.  Lou doesn't have to and shouldn't consider our feelings when deciding whether to keep something that belongs to him.  To suggest he give it away is ridiculous.


----------



## melogic (Oct 22, 2006)

I use TSW on every pen I make. I personally want to thank Lou for all he has done with this product. I also do not wish to see Lou further attacked, so as moderator, I AM LOCKING THIS THREAD! If Jeff wants it unlocked, he can do so.


----------

