# Spending too much time on finishing



## Alzey (Nov 2, 2011)

Some times I can put a CA finish on a pen then MM in about 10 minutes.  Some times, like tonight, I start with BLO then I put on a CA finish, have issues, sand it off, CA finish, sand it off, and finish again.  Went to put the pen together, too thin.  back to the lathe for more layers of CA.  Get it built up and sanded with MM and found scars.  This process took about an hour.  @#$% off, so I turned off the lights and walked away.

BTW..This was purpleheart that after turning an BLO ain't purple anymore

So my question is, what is your secret for a CA finish that durable, reliable, and quick?  I am using Thin and Medium CA from Wooden Wonders.

Thanks


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## barrysj (Nov 2, 2011)

Purple heart needs to be put in a partially sunny window for about 2 days (turning once).  It will always turn tan when turned and sanded, but once back in the sun the purple will come back beautifully...then finish it with CA...will color will enhance with age but not fade : )


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## tim self (Nov 2, 2011)

I do not use BLO on Purpleheart.  IMO, it darkens the wood to much.  If you wanna use the BLO, do a couple coats of thin first.  What I've been doing for a while is putting all my CA coats on and setting it aside for an hour or so.  Makes sure the CA is fully cured. I also only use Monty's glue.


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## 76winger (Nov 2, 2011)

I know a lot people use it, but I've never used BLO with CA. I instead use the aerosol accelerator (very sparingly) and it works great. Normally I get the Stickfast CA and Accelerator sold by Rockler and Woodturningz. Since it's worked good for me so far, I haven't saw reason to try any others, although they may be just as good. 

I did try a different accelerator once (ZAP Zip Kicker) but it didn't work well with the Stickfast CA, so I won't blend brands again. It causes what I can best describe as "boiling and smoking" and it leaves a bubbly mess after it hardens.


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## Justturnin (Nov 2, 2011)

I am right there w/ you today.  I have a cigar w. Indian Rosewood that I picked form the WC Scrap bin and my CA keeps chipping on one end.  I have removed and refinished 3 times.  Happened again.  Took it off the lathe put it back in the bag and will revisit someother day.  I will either scrap the blank or try again.


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## Ted iin Michigan (Nov 2, 2011)

Alzey - +1 what Dave said. 

Chris - I have had some frustrating "end chipping", too. I've found that if I take some paste wax and lightly coat the end of the turned blank prior to CA, the chipping turns into CA "sheeting" on the end of the finished blank. Then I can just sand it away. 

Also - Even if I finish Purpleheart right after turning, it still goes back purple. Takes a while, but it'll do it.


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## jppensplus (Nov 2, 2011)

I also use CA with accelerator--I don't use BLO.  Works for me--I usually use 12-15 coats of thick CA, with a spritz of aerosol accelerator after each application.  I use 400-grit sandpaper to smooth out the CA, then use MicroMesh to 12000 to polish out the blank.  Then a good polish and sometimes buffing.  I think attention paid at the point where you're making the blank to fit as closely as possible to the metal parts of the kit and to achieve a truly remarkable finish are what make pen-making fun.  It's fairly easy and quick to make a pen look good, but takes more time and attention to make it look great!!

JP


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## hunter-27 (Nov 2, 2011)

YELLOW SOCKS!!!!!:wink:


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## williamcr (Nov 3, 2011)

I have not used BLO on purpleheart but I do finish purpleheart by first hitting it lightly with a propane torch to bring out the purple then let it cool.  After that I sand with MM then thin and medium CA with accelerator and MM again.  I also prevent the chipping on the end with wax on the ends of the blank before CA if I remember the wax.


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## ve3bax (Nov 3, 2011)

williamcr said:


> I have not used BLO on purpleheart but I do finish purpleheart by first hitting it lightly with a propane torch to bring out the purple then let it cool.



i find that doing this, the colour doesn't change till the second you take your eye off it, then BAM! :biggrin:

heat gun works great too if using an open flame around all those wood shavings freaks you out 


--Dave


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## Timbo (Nov 3, 2011)

Last year I tried to find a way to turn my purpleheart back to purple quickly.  I ran a couple of experiments and here's what I found.  Heat will turn it kind of purple...but not the normal purpleheart color....it's more of a reddish purple.  I was surprised to find that setting a freshly turned blank in the sun does turn it back purple, but not any faster than setting it in a dark shop.  My guess is that exposure to oxygen in the air is what causes it to turn bright purple.   to capture the brightest colors, I turn purpleheart and cocobolo to size, then let them set for a week or so before turning.


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## nativewooder (Nov 3, 2011)

There is no tried and true instant solution when using CA glue as a finish.  Every piece of wood is different.  Your finish on each piece of wood is different.  But it's mainly that each piece of wood is different.  If you don't expect to be an overnight expert, your feelings won't be hurt if you should run into a problem.  Be patient!  Stay with it!  Many thousands before you have survived and you will also.  Good Luck! (And have lots of practice!):smile-big:


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## pensbydesign (Nov 3, 2011)

i stop using blo it was creating to may problem for me, it needs to dry before top coating that can take weeks. if i do use blo to make something really pop i will use one that has a lot of drying salts in it, like the ones used for gun stocks.  apply pressure to create heat to dry it quickly. use only enough oil to cover the pen barley, more is not better.


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## Alzey (Nov 3, 2011)

Thanks everyone for the feedback. 

I guess I need to stop using the BLO that i have.  I read somewhere else that BLO has a shelf life.  The bottle I have had been on the shelf 30+ years. A find in my grandfathers cabinet shop.  Guess if I want to use it to bring our the grains, I need to find me a new (small) bottle, apply and let dry for a few days before finishing.

Thanks for the info on Purpleheart.  Next one i do, I will turn to shape then leave out in the open for a week before finishing. Well see if that gives me the result I am looking for.

And thanks for all the ideas on how to apply CA.  I have 24 blanks cut and tubed ready to turn and I was getting a bit impatient to get to the next turning.  (Deep Breath)  I just need to slow down.  In this case, slower would have been faster.

Thanks again everyone for great advice, support, and this great forum to vent and learn from.


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## leehljp (Nov 3, 2011)

Alzey said:


> Thanks everyone for the feedback.
> 
> I guess I need to stop using the BLO that i have. . . .  Guess if I want to use it to bring our the grains, I need to find me a new (small) bottle, apply and let dry for a few days before finishing.



I use BLO sparingly - to pop the grain on a few woods but not all. If the wood has a beautiful grain pattern that is barely discernible, I put a little on a sample piece to see if it brings out the grain. On many woods, this is not necessary. So the wood itself determines if I am going to "try using" BLO or other oil.



> Thanks for the info on Purpleheart.  Next one i do, I will turn to shape then leave out in the open for a week before finishing. Well see if that gives me the result I am looking for.



 When I do use BLO to bring out the grain, I use some paper towel and "burn" the BLO in by turning the blank while squeezing the PT on it for about 30 seconds to a minute, and then let it cool down. The heat from this will help cure it quickly.



> And thanks for all the ideas on how to apply CA.



After a year of frustration on trying to get consistent finishes, I determined that I was going to learn how to apply a CA finish consistently and here is what I did: I made the "finish" my target for the week, not a finished pen. I took some plain blanks and practiced, practiced, practiced. I was NOT interested in a few finished pens in the process, but learning what I could about CA, wood, sanding, techniques, and my own reactions to certain circumstances.

When a "finished pen" is the target, each step is "pushed" to the next. "Learning" is not the point, but a "finished pen" IS. This is also why we get frustrated over several finished pens and then two or three that are not.

Since "Finish" is usually the most frustrating, that stage should dictate that we spend more time there learning the intricacies of it. 

External factors determine the results as much as technique with CA! Dry weather and dry climates affect CA finishes differently than humid. Temperature changes affect finishes, and then temp and humidity variables affect it also. Throw in wood chemistry (oils/mositure) affect it also. These are very very minor differences but require a change and adaption of the finishing process.

Practice helps identify the differences and helps one make adjustments. AND it also teaches that on occasion, frustration still happens no matter what. It is somewhat like a golf swing - the harder you try the more mistakes you will make! :wink: 

BLO is a mild accelerant and is helpful (for me) when temps drop below 60°F.  High humidity (as in the Southeast, USA) speed up the process, unless it is cold. Higher temps (85°+) do also. Some paper towels affect the curing more than others. Spray accelerants are fairly consistent but even then, the temp and thickness of the CA determines how effective it will be. Medium and thick CA will cure fairly quick at temps of around 80°+, while at 60°, the med and thick CA will be hard on the surface but not underneath.

All of this is learnable with practice and VERY helpful as a skill set - and will vary with geographic location, and also somewhat from person to person.

I spent most of my early learning in Japan and am adjusting to these processes in the southeast of the US now.


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## Jim Burr (Nov 3, 2011)

What's kinda fun about Purpleheart is that it responds to photochemical reactions. If you go back to organic chem (I know we all want to do that!) heat+light = oxidization. More light/heat...more reaction! Getting PH purple again is easy after turning/sanding! Oven at 100 is good...during the summer just set it in the sun for an while, Hair dryers are great during the winter and they keep your hands warm too! Sadly...it will go brown after time passes and depending on the application, heating or sunlight may not be an option. CA works great with some accelerator...just a spritz from a few feet away. If you load it up at close range, you may notice some clouding.


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## Alzey (Nov 3, 2011)

Thanks for all the great info.  I went into the shop this afternoon with the mindset of working on finishes.  The first thing I tried to do was fix the PH from the night before.  I realized the scars were deep in the finish.  So, I tested out my home made round nosed scraper and turned the pen down to brass :smile-big:

Next I grabbed a Burl blank that i got from a grab bag.  Turned to shape, then finished only with thick CA.  Temp in the low 60s and raining.  I don't know why I haven't tried a finish with thick CA.  I figured out my problem before with the thin CA is that I was rushing to get it on the pen before it all soaked into my paper towel.  Lesson Learned.  Thick and medium CA for finishes and Thin CA to stabilize blanks.

Then i turned a one piece pencil from PH.  Sanded to 600.  Then I put a nail in a small clap, set it in the window, and put the pencil on the nail.  Will finish it later once it turns purple again 

Then I grabbed another set of blanks and repeated what i did with the Burl.  Success.  And I only spent 2 hours doing everything.

I did not finish the pens, only made the barrels.  I have a few people at work that are wanting to buy pens, I will let them choose from the barrels before I make the pens.  This way I can customize the pen with an iPod tip if they want in chrome or let them choose from Gold or Gun Metal finishes.

It's all the mind.

Thanks everyone.


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## okiebugg (Nov 4, 2011)

Two coats then hang and lacquer. Works well for me and leaves the color vibrant. Two thin coats of CA arent enough to dull the color. Spraying with gloss or ultra gloss Deft lacquer will not change the color.




Alzey said:


> Some times I can put a CA finish on a pen then MM in about 10 minutes. Some times, like tonight, I start with BLO then I put on a CA finish, have issues, sand it off, CA finish, sand it off, and finish again. Went to put the pen together, too thin. back to the lathe for more layers of CA. Get it built up and sanded with MM and found scars. This process took about an hour. @#$% off, so I turned off the lights and walked away.
> 
> BTW..This was purpleheart that after turning an BLO ain't purple anymore
> 
> ...


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## Wood Butcher (Nov 4, 2011)

It's so much fun reading all of the different questions, comments and answers and the fact that they are all a little different, some are a lot different though.  That's what makes this the best forum I've ever been on.  No way is incorrect if it works for you, pen making not life.  That being said I have found that the craft evolves and improves continuously.  I tried the BLO and CA and didn't like it but obviously it is a good finish as is proven by the pen I see here.  I will try just about anything suggested here for pen production because, after 70+ years I know that I don't know everything and am forgetting some that I did know at one time....what?  Kepp learning and turning and you will come far pilgrim.
WB


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## MSGMP (Dec 26, 2011)

Sat down today to read the finishing posts and was really surprissed at how much debate comes from using BLO. I guess it comes down to what you are looking for in a finished pen. I have used many finishes from friction polish, straight CA and BLO/CA. They all work but each with their own drawbacks. In my opinion, and this is just my opinion, I prefer using BLO/CA because it allows me to get a durable finish (holds up way better than a friction polish) but still lets a wood pen look and feel like wood. I can get a very nice gloss finish without the pen looking like plastic. I am confused about the comments on how much time it takes to put on a BLO/CA finish. It takes me about 5 minutes. Before I describe my method, let me just say it is only my way to do it, not the only way.

I sand to 12000 MM, sanding length wise between grits and blowing the blank off with compressed air between grits as well. I then use Mylands sanding sealer lightly and buff off with a paper towel. Then I apply a drop or two of BLO to a piece of paper towel and run it over the blank and the ends of the bushings, keeps the CA from sticking to them. I use a clean section of the towel to buff off the excess BLO. I then use a few drops of medium CA on top of the paper towel section that I used to apply the BLO. I apply medium pressure to the towel as the CA is worked back and forth over the blank for about 30 seconds. Temp and humidity can increase or decrease the time. I don't time it, just observe the blank as it is spinning. You will see when the CA has dried, hard to describe but you can see the difference as you work the towel back and forth. Repeat this for all 4 coats. I do not sand between coats, there are no ridges to sand out as the BLO levels the CA and allows it to go on smooth. I do not use hardener and I have the lathe running at a fairly fast speed, on 5 instead of 7 I use for turning and sanding, on my Delta 46-460 with the belt set at fastest speed. After the 4th coat, I hit it with a polish compound and then a coat of ren wax. Like I said, about 5 minutes. I have been carrying the same pen for two years that was finished this way and it still looks great. I will occasionally hit it with ren wax to clean it up but that is it. I carry this pen clipped in my pants pocket so it sees a lot of wear but has held up nicely.

Again, just my method. Each to his own and I think that is what we all need to do. Find what works for you and don't be afraid to experiment to get there.


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