# Insert Tools



## soccer2010 (Sep 13, 2009)

Is there much of a difference between the skogger and the woodchuck?  You can PM me if you prefer.


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## Texatdurango (Sep 13, 2009)

soccer2010 said:


> Is there much of a difference between the skogger and the woodchuck? You can PM me if you prefer.


One is about the same price as the Easy Rougher from Craft Supply while the other is about half that price for the same tool..... go figure!


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## jleiwig (Sep 13, 2009)

soccer2010 said:


> Is there much of a difference between the skogger and the woodchuck? You can PM me if you prefer.


 
Other than price, not that I can tell.  But order both and make your own opinions.


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## sdemars (Sep 13, 2009)

*I currently have . . .*

I currently have both size of the Easy Rougher's & planning to purchase a Woodchuck. I also like the looks of the ROTONDO(same maker as the Skogger).

My concern with all these tools is the same. Should any of them go out of business, where would you buy the inserts for their particular tool?

Steve


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## Glass Scratcher (Sep 13, 2009)

I don't know anything about how the others work, I looked at the Ci1 at Woodcraft, and one that another turner has in our club, and read an article by Frank - Rifleman1776, and made my own.

I enjoyed learning some new skills in making the tool.  I have 2 more ready to go, and I am going to try some other inserts.

The first one took a little over 3 hrs to make.  I must also say that JohnnyCnC, gave great advice and encouragement for me to undertake this project.  The inserts I used were from Grizzly.





I can't compare it to the others as I have never used them, but it certainly makes wood round, very quickly.


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## traderdon55 (Sep 14, 2009)

Glad to know the Grizzly inserts work well as I had just ordered some to make my own to.


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## jleiwig (Sep 14, 2009)

Grizzly sells the inserts, they are for helix planer blades.  You can also buy inserts for carbide router bits that work as well.  I used to have a website to buy the inserts directly from the manufacturer, but I lost it when my computer crashed.


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## Texatdurango (Sep 14, 2009)

soccer2010 said:


> Is there much of a difference between the skogger and the woodchuck? You can PM me if you prefer.


soccer2010, Judging from comments above and from other threads, it's obvious that all the tools being discussed are simply holders for carbide tips.  If one does not have the skills or tools to make their own, these readily available tools are just fine and a little shopping around will reveal some pretty decent prices.
 
Having the tools and the time to work with steel stock myself (sawing, drilling, tapping, etc) I chose to make my own carbide tipped cutting tool.  I found some great prices on carbide cutters and the hardened attaching screws at http://www.globaltooling.net/.  Click on Products then carbide insert knives.  
 
I caught the cutters I needed on sale and am tickled pink with the way they cut.


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## jleiwig (Sep 14, 2009)

I purchased my inserts from woodchuck/bitshird and got a piece of 1/2" steel from the scrap yard.  A couple minutes with the grinder and a quick drill and tap and I was set.  It's not super hard to do, but if you don't have the ablility to do it yourself then by all means get it from one of the suppliers.


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## bitshird (Sep 14, 2009)

jleiwig said:


> I purchased my inserts from woodchuck/bitshird and got a piece of 1/2" steel from the scrap yard.  A couple minutes with the grinder and a quick drill and tap and I was set.  It's not super hard to do, but if you don't have the ablility to do it yourself then by all means get it from one of the suppliers.



The only bad part about grinding out the insert pocket is getting it dead level,and getting the back line right since it has to hold the insert from rotating. Carbide while extremely hard is also very brittle, it's easy to snap an insert by over tightening it, that's the advantage to owning a CNC Milling Machine, the new Woodchuck comes in two lengths, one for pens, and one for bowls, both made from stainless steel and both take 3 different inserts, 1 of which is rather difficult to find, it's a 2 inch radius insert that's 15 mm wide. The 15 mm square inserts and 4 inch radius inserts are easier to find, I don't even make the 14 mm tool any more but I still have plenty of inserts for them,


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## wood-of-1kind (Sep 14, 2009)

bitshird said:


> The only bad part about grinding out the insert pocket is getting it dead level,and getting the back line right since it has to hold the insert from rotating. Carbide while extremely hard is also very brittle, it's easy to snap an insert by over tightening it,



Ken, I'm glad that you have chimed in to remind all that there is a great deal of skill in making these types of tools "right". My greatest fear here is that "safety" and proper tool design will be thown out the window from those that do not have the skill to properly make a safe and useable tool. It's not quite as simple as some of implied to just "get a hunk of scrap steel and put on an insert". If you do make your own tool, please make sure you have an understanding on the characteristics of carbide inserts and how to properly "seat" them.


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## soccer2010 (Sep 14, 2009)

Thanks to all who replied.  I was looking for input on the differences between available tools, namely those offered by IAP members as that's who I would look at buying from first.  I'm not really looking to make my own at this point.  It would be nice to have one tool that had both the round and the diamond cutters on the same tool.


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## Texatdurango (Sep 14, 2009)

soccer2010 said:


> Thanks to all who replied. I was looking for input on the differences between available tools, namely those offered by IAP members as that's who I would look at buying from first. I'm not really looking to make my own at this point. It would be nice to have one tool that had both the round and the diamond cutters on the same tool.


That would be a trick since the holding rod needs to be shaped and beveled to allow the cutter to sit without twisting when the screw is tightened.

I've got it... a double ended tool with a round tip on one end then a square end on the other


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## wood-of-1kind (Sep 14, 2009)

Texatdurango said:


> I've got it... a double ended tool with a round tip on one end then a square end on the other




I made one but decided NOT to sell it for SAFETY reasons. Ever think what would happen if the tool  "twisted/turned" ackward and thrust into your belly with a sharp carbide or sliced your hand?


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## TomW (Sep 14, 2009)

wood-of-1kind said:


> I made one but decided NOT to sell it for SAFETY reasons. Ever think what would happen if the tool "twisted/turned" ackward and thrust into your belly with a sharp carbide or sliced your hand?


 
I had a "slide over" handle cap invisioned.  Would be good practice for those coarse "kitless" threads.


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## Glass Scratcher (Sep 14, 2009)

Texatdurango said:


> Um, Er, Snip?
> 
> I've got it... a double ended tool with a round tip on one end then a square end on the other



Oi!  I see a new tool for a mohel!


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## soccer2010 (Sep 15, 2009)

I was thinking of having a spot for each insert at the same end just on opposite sides.  Only one insert would be on the tool at a time.  I wasn't thinking of having both inserts in at the same time for obvious safety reasons.  It sounds like a nice addition for someone that would use one insert most of the time and didn't want to spend another chunk of money on the additional tool.  Thanks for everyone's help.


wood-of-1kind said:


> I made one but decided NOT to sell it for SAFETY reasons. Ever think what would happen if the tool  "twisted/turned" ackward and thrust into your belly with a sharp carbide or sliced your hand?


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## wood-of-1kind (Sep 15, 2009)

soccer2010 said:


> I was thinking of having a spot for each insert at the same end just on opposite sides.  Only one insert would be on the tool at a time.  I wasn't thinking of having both inserts in at the same time for obvious safety reasons.  It sounds like a nice addition for someone that would use one insert most of the time and didn't want to spend another chunk of money on the additional tool.  Thanks for everyone's help.




While this can easily be done, my fear here is that the user will most likely leave the "second" unit on and thereby still pose a SAFETY issue. Convenience/laziness will usually prevail over safety (JMO). I do however like the suggestion of the "sliding cover" for protection and although it can be done I'm concerned about the added cost to the unit price of the tool. There's good ideas coming out of this thread.


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## Texatdurango (Sep 15, 2009)

Texatdurango said:


> That would be a trick since the holding rod needs to be shaped and beveled to allow the cutter to sit without twisting when the screw is tightened.
> 
> I've got it... a double ended tool with a round tip on one end then a square end on the other


 
Before the discussions about a double ended tool get too carried away, I just want to add that I assumed that everyone would know that I was just kidding when I made the above comment!


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## SnowLeopard_2001 (Sep 15, 2009)

wood-of-1kind said:


> I do however like the suggestion of the "sliding cover" for protection and although it can be done I'm concerned about the added cost to the unit price of the tool.


  Since you would be getting "two tools" instead of one, IMHO if the price was less than the price of two individual tools, then the additional cost over a single tool might be worth it.


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## bitshird (Sep 15, 2009)

SnowLeopard_2001 said:


> Since you would be getting "two tools" instead of one, IMHO if the price was less than the price of two individual tools, then the additional cost over a single tool might be worth it.



In my opinion No, the metal is not the main cost, The actual machining is the main cost per tool, I'm not sure about Peters tool, but having a diamond shape or square insert on one side and a round on the other wouldn't really be feasible, do to 1 the center of the inserts would not be in the same location which would mean you would have to use two separate holes and very short screws, and 2 on my tool the front of the tool is relieved 15 degrees to allow for tool clearance in a pocket, should someone want to do a small lidded box or very small bowl, with the Pen Pro , it's also relieved on the longer Woodchuck Pro but that tool while it can be used on pens with out any problem is primarily designed for turning bowls and larger turnings. after many years in a machine shop I really put safety first, I've seen too many accidents, and I'll be damned if I want to see my tools cause any one to get hurt.


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## BigguyZ (Sep 15, 2009)

Who sells the skogger?  I'd be interested in comparing the prices.  PM me is it's uncouth to ask....


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## Texatdurango (Sep 15, 2009)

BigguyZ said:


> Who sells the skogger? I'd be interested in comparing the prices. PM me is it's uncouth to ask....


Uncouth, I don't understand.  The way I see it there are at least half a dozen "versions" of basically the same tool floating around, two of which are being sold by IAP members, perhaps a third, I don't know.  Just because they are forum members I don't see why discussing their tools or the prices of those tools is any different than discssing anything else we buy around here especially when similar tools are offered elsewhere.  If someone is interested in a nib, folks are willing to say Greg sells them for $XXX or Joe sells a certain blank for $XXX or kit xyz is on sale for $xxx over at John's place so what's different here?  Competition is good right... may the best man (tool) win!

If I'm wrong in my thinking someone please correct me HERE not with a PM, I get enough of those as it is. 

Bigguyz, both members offering their tools posted above, both have their websites listed so it should be easy shopping, they are:

Ken (bitshird) and Peter (wood-of-1kind)


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## BigguyZ (Sep 15, 2009)

Texatdurango said:


> Uncouth, I don't understand.  The way I see it there are at least half a dozen "versions" of basically the same tool floating around, two of which are being sold by IAP members, perhaps a third, I don't know.  Just because they are forum members I don't see why discussing their tools or the prices of those tools is any different than discssing anything else we buy around here especially when similar tools are offered elsewhere.  If someone is interested in a nib, folks are willing to say Greg sells them for $XXX or Joe sells a certain blank for $XXX or kit xyz is on sale for $xxx over at John's place so what's different here?  Competition is good right... may the best man (tool) win!
> 
> If I'm wrong in my thinking someone please correct me HERE not with a PM, I get enough of those as it is.
> 
> ...



Eh, always feel wierd talking brass tacks.  And I saw wood-of-kind's website, didn't see a price.  

Are these tools any better than the Robert Sorby scraper on sale at CSUSA?  I see that on salfe for only $38...


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## johnnycnc (Sep 15, 2009)

That looks pretty good, Charles.



Glass Scratcher said:


> I don't know anything about how the others work, I looked at the Ci1 at Woodcraft, and one that another turner has in our club, and read an article by Frank - Rifleman1776, and made my own.
> 
> I enjoyed learning some new skills in making the tool.  I have 2 more ready to go, and I am going to try some other inserts.
> 
> ...


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## randyrls (Sep 15, 2009)

sdemars said:


> My concern with all these tools is the same. Should any of them go out of business, where would you buy the inserts for their particular tool?
> 
> Steve



Steve;   If the insert has a flat top, it is easy to sharpen them on a credit card style diamond sharpener.  Stay away from the ones with holes in them.

A couple of passes across the card and they cut like new, but buy an extra one!


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## jleiwig (Sep 16, 2009)

randyrls said:


> Steve; If the insert has a flat top, it is easy to sharpen them on a credit card style diamond sharpener. Stay away from the ones with holes in them.
> 
> A couple of passes across the card and they cut like new, but buy an extra one!


 
That plus the inserts have been around a while before anyone started making wood turning tools from them.


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