# Alt Ivory from CSUSA



## Grizz

Hi,

I just purchased some alt Ivory and thought it felt kinda weird in my hand. (at least not what I was expecting).

Is there anything special I need to do or worry about turning this stuff?  And I thought it would be really white and it is a pale white... is that normal?

Thanks.


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## marcruby

Ivory isn't really white - off white to yellowed would be more what I would expect.  Does the material have any noticeable grain?  That seems to be what's missing in the alternate ivory I've seen.

Marc


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## pipecrafter

When turning the alt ivory, go slow and make sure your tools are fresh and sharp.  It's going to want to chip out if you get too aggressive, or have to pres hard due to a dull tool.  And when it start to go, it's going to go bad - little tiny chips will fly everywhere, and the surface will look like a shiny oak tree.  It's truly a pain in the ass on a wood lathe.  I try to turn as much of that stuff as I can on the metal lathe with a really fine feed, and only turn it on the wood lathe when I absolutely have to.


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## DonWood

*Alt Ivory*

Hi Everyone:

I couldn't agree more with the comments about the Alt Ivory.  I had a special request for a couple of pens made from this, but I don't think I will ever use it again.  I ended up bringing down to final shape by sanding instead of cutting.  Lots of sanding, but at least I ended up with the pens I needed, but it took quite a while.


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## Mack C.

pipecrafter said:


> When turning the alt ivory, go slow and make sure your tools are fresh and sharp. It's going to want to chip out if you get too aggressive, or have to pres hard due to a dull tool. And when it start to go, it's going to go bad - little tiny chips will fly everywhere, and the surface will look like a shiny oak tree. It's truly a pain in the ass on a wood lathe. I try to turn as much of that stuff as I can on the metal lathe with a really fine feed, and only turn it on the wood lathe when I absolutely have to.


 And here I thought it was me and my technique.

I just purchased 5 blanks from Ed4copies. I ruined the first one attempting to turn it like I would turn wood. Tiny chips did fly everywhere.

Turning the 2nd blank just about frayed my nerves, since every once in a while I would get small chipouts.






This is my end result on a Sterling Silver/Ti. Gold Cambridge RB that I hope will be a bride's wedding pen someday.

I'm hoping that my nerves will settle long enough to turn another one. I don't have the luxury of a metal lathe. I can only wish!

Jon; You can see it isn't white. It has picked up some of the colour of the lights used to photograph it.


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## wdcav1952

I've turned a few alternative ivory from Ed4Copies, and while not the easiest material to turn, the mantra of sharp tools light cuts makes things much better.


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## VisExp

I made this pen using Alt. Ivory from Ed. I found the Alt. Ivory cut beautifully on the scroll saw. I don't remember any problems drilling or turning the pen.


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## scotian12

In October I turned 13 alternative ivory pens. The blanks came from Ed, CSUSA and Arizona Silhouette. No problem turning them if you are patient and use sharp tools. the CSUSA alternative ivory is a bit brittle and would probably be my third choice for turning. For realistic appearance of ivory my choice is the alternative ivory from AS and found in the trustone section...I'm not sure that it is trustone as it was not hard to turn.


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## jttheclockman

Keith

That is one of the nicest pens I have seen. Great work on that one. I checked your site. Other great looking pens there. You have a PM


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## Rifleman1776

Keith, very beautiful pen.

Grizz, "pale white"????

pipecrafter "shiny oak tree"???

Enneyhow, for those who have experience turning this material please explain your technique. Some say to turn slow. I don't know if they mean with patience or slow lathe speed.
Methinks that high speed, sharp tools, light touch and much patience would be required. I dunno, never tried this material. I do have another alt ivory material I'm about to turn. It might be easier. But, it may be harder. We will see.


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## ed4copies

Well, the show is set up. So, I am back here today.

Alternative Ivory is made by one company. We (CSUSA, me, AS, etc) all sell the same stuff. 

There is no better teacher than experience. I turn it all the time. My lathe is an old Delta that can barely muster 2600 RPM at top speed. I turn ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING at that speed. I just turned 20 alternative ivory pieces to 0.5", then put them (one at a time) on the Pen Wizard, made my patterns and filled, then turned them again to the size of a Sierra. NO PROBLEM!!

Yes, I messed up some when I was learning. NO, I can't make YOU turn the same as I do. I have made a couple short videos last weekend to try my new camera, they went well. So, I WILL make a video next week (working the show this weekend). HOWEVER, I can HEAR plastics, I FEEL plastics, my fingers can tell me if a blank is about to break. I CAN'T GIVE that to you, you have to EARN it. 

Soon, Dawn will be selling "practice blanks" on her new website. I recommend using them. IF they come out ok, they will make a nice pen. IF you break them, cost is minimal.

Also, if you are drilling on the lathe and want to practice alt ivory, I have a bunch that is 15mm (I goofed). I will sell these on the IAP for $2 for a 5 inch piece. This is the material I am using for the Pen Wiz experiments. Makes a GREAT sierra. Would make ANY pen that is under a half inch finished diameter.

Sorry, some knowledge just can't be "packaged".

I am HAPPY to answer questions, but I can't TELL you how to FEEL something.

I CAN and DO wish you LUCK gaining EXPERIENCE!!!!!!!!!!!


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## sbell111

Interesting post.  Strangely defensive, but interesting and informative.


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## ed4copies

Not defensive, FRUSTRATED!!!

I do get calls asking me, "What did I do wrong??"   I CAN'T TELL YOU!!!!  I WASN'T THERE!!!

I WISH I could make you all turn "just like me", but I can't.   I HAD to mess up a LOT of blanks when I started ---- There WAS NO IAP!!!   But, in doing so, I HEARD the material, I FELT the breaking.

IF you have seen me in Urbana, please tell others that I am NOT kidding, I CAN turn plastic, FAST.  Also, those who have seen me, if you can contribute WHAT  YOU gained from watching, maybe that will help.

Defensive, NO!!  Turning plastic is a CHOICE.  I would like to make it EASIER for you, but I do NOT guarantee YOU can DO it.  THAT requires YOUR expertise which I cannot control.


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## BRobbins629

ed4copies said:


> Not defensive, FRUSTRATED!!!
> 
> I do get calls asking me, "What did I do wrong??" I CAN'T TELL YOU!!!! I WASN'T THERE!!!
> 
> I WISH I could make you all turn "just like me", but I can't. I HAD to mess up a LOT of blanks when I started ---- There WAS NO IAP!!! But, in doing so, I HEARD the material, I FELT the breaking.
> 
> IF you have seen me in Urbana, please tell others that I am NOT kidding, I CAN turn plastic, FAST. Also, those who have seen me, if you can contribute WHAT YOU gained from watching, maybe that will help.
> 
> Defensive, NO!! Turning plastic is a CHOICE. I would like to make it EASIER for you, but I do NOT guarantee YOU can DO it. THAT requires YOUR expertise which I cannot control.


 Calm down Ed - only 2 days and you'll be back with Dawn:wink:.


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## pipecrafter

I agree - this material is something you have to feel and listen too.  It's not easy.  Luckily, most of what I use it for needs to be done on the metal lathe, and the belt grinder, so I almost never need to turn it on the wood lathe.  When I do, I like to use a really deep bowl gouge at about 1800RPM, then the finishing cut is an oval skew in sort of a planing cut - just shaving off a thin layer of material.


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## sbell111

ed4copies said:


> Not defensive, FRUSTRATED!!!
> 
> I do get calls asking me, "What did I do wrong??"   I CAN'T TELL YOU!!!!  I WASN'T THERE!!!
> 
> I WISH I could make you all turn "just like me", but I can't.   I HAD to mess up a LOT of blanks when I started ---- There WAS NO IAP!!!   But, in doing so, I HEARD the material, I FELT the breaking.
> 
> IF you have seen me in Urbana, please tell others that I am NOT kidding, I CAN turn plastic, FAST.  Also, those who have seen me, if you can contribute WHAT  YOU gained from watching, maybe that will help.
> 
> Defensive, NO!!  Turning plastic is a CHOICE.  I would like to make it EASIER for you, but I do NOT guarantee YOU can DO it.  THAT requires YOUR expertise which I cannot control.


I still don't get why you are so frustrated.  No one in this thread blamed you for their poor results or begged you to make them turn 'just like you'.

It's great that you are so good, but no one has expressed any expectation that you are to do anything at all.  If you have advice to give those who are having trouble with this material and you would like to share those pearls, it would be great if you did so.  Otherwise, don't bother.

I simply don't understand why this thread should give you any angst.


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## ed4copies

Steve,

Put simply, when someone trusts me and buys a product, I want them to be insanely happy with it.

I sell copiers for a living and achieve this daily, in an industry known for it's nonchalant attitude toward customer problems.

I sell Alternative ivory and other turning products to all who wish to purchase them.  I want THEM to be insanely HAPPY, too.

It IS a personality quirk and I recognize MANY will NOT understand it.

Sorry if it sounds like I am ranting, if you could hear my voice, it would be more of a PLEA than a RANT.

I WILL make a video, showing it happening.  MAYBE that will make everyone ABLE to do the same.  Worth a shot!


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## thewishman

ed4copies said:


> IF you have seen me in Urbana, please tell others that I am NOT kidding, I CAN turn plastic, FAST.  Also, those who have seen me, if you can contribute WHAT  YOU gained from watching, maybe that will help.




I've met Ed, I've watched Ed turn plastics, I've talked wit Ed - in person and on the phone. I can tell you this - Ed, you're no Jack Kennedy!

Ed IS a resin master, he turns resin blanks from square to finished diameter in less time than it took you to read this sentence. Get the 2007 MPG DVD from poppersandpens and learn the plastic turning technique from the Resinator.


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## jttheclockman

Where can this dvd  bee seen??


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## sbell111

ed4copies said:


> Steve,
> 
> Put simply, when someone trusts me and buys a product, I want them to be insanely happy with it.
> 
> I sell copiers for a living and achieve this daily, in an industry known for it's nonchalant attitude toward customer problems.
> 
> I sell Alternative ivory and other turning products to all who wish to purchase them.  I want THEM to be insanely HAPPY, too.
> 
> It IS a personality quirk and I recognize MANY will NOT understand it.
> 
> Sorry if it sounds like I am ranting, if you could hear my voice, it would be more of a PLEA than a RANT.
> 
> I WILL make a video, showing it happening.  MAYBE that will make everyone ABLE to do the same.  Worth a shot!


As far as I can tell from this thread, everyone is happy with the product.  Grizz merely asked for tips before he turned his.  The tips that he was given were 1) Use scary sharp tools, 2) Do not be aggressive, and 3) Use the force.  These appear to be very sound bits of advice.  Do you have any other pearls to offer him?


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## Skye

Does anyone else do what I do when turning easy to chip PR? I tend to make rather light cuts and move the tool slow enough and with enough pressure that I can feel the PR almost start to melt right where my tool it taking material away. If I move forward too fast I can get chips, but if I keep it slow enough, letting the blank soften slightly, I notice I get a much more dependable cut. Sure, it's not always as clean as others, but it always sands out the same.


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## sbell111

That's my method.  I find that prayer helps a little, but mostly success comes for me by not getting too cocky and trying to speed up because everything is going so good.


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## Grizz

ed4copies said:


> ...I do get calls asking me, "What did I do wrong??"   I CAN'T TELL YOU!!!!  I WASN'T THERE!!!



That was so funny!  I understand that so much.... I coach High School golf and a kid will come in after a round and tell me he hit the ball in the water on hole #7 and ask, "What did I do wrong?"....    My exact thought.... I can't tell you... I wasn't there.   And even if I was, I probably still wouldn't know, do you have any idea of how many different components to the golf swing there is?

If they still want an answer I tell them they had a brain fart.

Anyway, I think I understand this Alt Ivory stuff.  Practice and pray a lot!!!!!

Thanks everyone.


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## VisExp

I've spoke to Ed on the phone. The thing that struck me the most was that he didn't talk in CAPITAL letters :biggrin:


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## Grizz

*Piece of Cake*

Okay here it is, turend Alt Ivory.  No real problems, I first tried a bull nose scraper... no good, then my Monster Tool, no good, then I tried a roughing gouge.... no good... All of them chipped!

But then I pulled out my trusty lancer style skew and the Ivory turned like butter!!!!  I had the second barrel turned in a few minutes.

Thanks everyone for your help!

-Grizz


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## OldWrangler

The best alt. ivory I've tried was from San Jac Stuff. They are on E-bay as Sanjacstuff1620. I think they sell the white Corian. It is cheap and turns like a dream. No chip out and have never lost one. It comes in about 6 colors of white from bright white to a yellow off-white. And polishes up great.


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## randyrls

Grizz said:


> Okay here it is, turend Alt Ivory.  No real problems, I first tried a bull nose scraper... no good, then my Monster Tool, no good, then I tried a roughing gouge.... no good... All of them chipped!
> 
> But then I pulled out my trusty lancer style skew and the Ivory turned like butter!!!!  I had the second barrel turned in a few minutes.
> 
> Thanks everyone for your help!
> 
> -Grizz




Grizz;  All plastics need to be *CUT* as you found out...   The skew presented to do a shearing *CUT*, not a scraping cut, will peel off ribbons of acrylic so long, I have to stop my dusk collector and clean the ribbons out the debris screen.


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## thewishman

jttheclockman said:


> Where can this dvd  bee seen??



At the 2007 Midwest Penturners Gathering in Champaign, Illinois - Ed demonstrated his resin turning techniques and the demo (with others) was put on a DVD offered by Poppers-N-Pens (a member here.) The post offering it is over a year old and I can't access it, but he may still be able to make copies. I sent Poppers an email to see if he has any left.http://www.penturners.org/forum/member.php?u=3705


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## jttheclockman

Chris

Thanks alot and let me know what he says.


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## nava1uni

I turn plastics and use a round nose scraper to round them and then a skew to do the rest of the turning.  I understand what Ed was saying about feeling the plastic.  I think that applies to most everything.  I practice a lot on 1X1 and scrap wood to understand how things apply and what will and won't work.


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