# Kit Quality



## Sabaharr (Oct 14, 2011)

I have purchased kits from Woodcraft store, PennState, and Craft USA and had good results. Now I am seeing a site from China where you can buy kits direct for around half the others prices. If its too good to be true it usually is. SO, has anyone bought kits like this? I think the company name starts with an X.


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## Haynie (Oct 14, 2011)

Link?


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## chriselle (Oct 14, 2011)

Yes..linky??


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## bitshird (Oct 14, 2011)

it's the old bugaboo company, Xiamen Rizheng yes their kits are worth what they charge, several people by from them regularly, BUT their terms are for most small buyers will seem unreasonable, but it is the way foreign business is handled in China.  http://www.rizheng-stationery.com/


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## Monty (Oct 14, 2011)

And yes, the kits are about 1/2 price of everywhere else, but you'll need to add in shipping to you which, depending on how much you buy, can be 50%-100% the published cost of the kit.


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## Smitty37 (Oct 14, 2011)

*Lots*

If you only want to buy a few kits - they will be more expensive than domestic.  At 100 of their Fancy Slimlnes compared to 100 PSI slim funlines the final cost to you will be about the same.


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## Papo (Oct 14, 2011)

If you only want to buy a few kits - they will be more expensive than domestic. At 100 of their Fancy Slimlnes compared to 100 PSI slim funlines the final cost to you will be about the same. 

So that said, at what amount of kits ordered would be feasible to order from them.


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## Smitty37 (Oct 14, 2011)

*Compare*

For most cases, I don't know because there are a number of variables.  You need to take their price the number of kits you want and their shipping costs and determine the total.  Then compare that to what you'd pay elsewhere. Whether it is economical or not will depend on the individual kit.

One other caution...because they are also a wholesale and OEM company they frequently have many items out of stock.  MOQ to have something made is usually 500 but for some platings it is more.


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## renowb (Oct 14, 2011)

Their shipping is way expensive if you order small quantities!


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## Russianwolf (Oct 14, 2011)

One other thing is the time till delivery can months.


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## Smitty37 (Oct 14, 2011)

*If you order large quantities*



Russianwolf said:


> One other thing is the time till delivery can months.


 They usually ship within two days if they have the item in stock - it's when they have to make the kits (large orders) that they are very good at promises and very poor at keeping them.


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## Sabaharr (Oct 15, 2011)

Yes, Xiamen Rizheng is the company I was talking about. I did a little checking and shipping for the volume I need would be cost prohibitive. So if the quality is worth the asking price, and kit cost is a minimal expense involved in selling price, then I sure want to buy from an American retailer even if they are made in Tiawan. At least I am supporting someones job over here. Thanks for all the input guys. Decision made.


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## Wildman (Oct 15, 2011)

Almost all pen kit suppliers here in the U.S. & Canada, will give you a quantity discount on pen kits and supplies. Prices vary by kit, quantity, and vendor. Some vendors let you mix pen kits to achieve quantity discounts. 

Vendors run specials on pen kits, bushings, and other products they stock.  Berea Hardwood and Arizona Silhouette just two that know of, but check all your favorite vendors for sales too!


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## warthog (Oct 15, 2011)

If it aint AMERICAN made...I don't buy it. Period.


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## Smitty37 (Oct 15, 2011)

*Hmmmm*

What do you wear?  What vehicle do you drive or ride?  What kind of light bulbs do you use?

Buying American is great and I do it when I can - which is not often.  I don't know anyone providing American made pen kits or nibs or refills.  So how do you turn pens?


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## pianomanpj (Oct 15, 2011)

Smitty37 said:


> What do you wear?  What vehicle do you drive or ride?  What kind of light bulbs do you use?
> 
> Buying American is great and I do it when I can - which is not often.  I don't know anyone providing American made pen kits or nibs or refills.  So how do you turn pens?



I know of ONE American manufacturer of pen kits!! :biggrin::biggrin:


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## Smitty37 (Oct 15, 2011)

*Hmmmm*



pianomanpj said:


> Smitty37 said:
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> > What do you wear? What vehicle do you drive or ride? What kind of light bulbs do you use?
> ...


 
Me too but we wouldn't sell many pens if we were waiting for their kits. I do not think they are in volume production quite yet. We could always have gone to a small shop and had them made if we had enough orders for $1000 and up pens. Even if they include the nibs, that leaves the refills and ink, can't write without them.:biggrin::biggrin:

You know the two models of Cars that have enough American made content to be called Made in USA are both Japanese Cars?


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## sbell111 (Oct 17, 2011)

Smitty37 said:


> pianomanpj said:
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> > Smitty37 said:
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I don't disagree with the sentiment of your post, but the bolded bit is incorrect.  According to the NHTSA, there were 37 2011 models that had enough content (75%).  Of these, 28 were from those brands traditionally thought of as 'American' (Ford, Lincoln, Chevy, GM, Buick, Jeep, Chrysler, etc).  The report can be found here.  This count may actually be higher as there were eight 'American' models that were not rated in time for the report.  Also, it should be noted that the top eight vehicles were all offered by 'American' companies.


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## OKLAHOMAN (Oct 17, 2011)

sbell111 said:


> Smitty37 said:
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> > pianomanpj said:
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 Steve, that is misleading, as the report doesn't separate the US and Canada and to be 75% American I would think Canada doesn't come into the equation.


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## Smitty37 (Oct 17, 2011)

*True*



sbell111 said:


> Smitty37 said:
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> > pianomanpj said:
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I may have seen older data --- I'll need to recheck. However it should be noted that the report cited is USA/Canada. So the percentage is not necessarily enough to be labeled "Made in USA" but I think it is what will appear on the sticker. [cars were not a very good example for me to have chosen they fall under different rules and are never labeled "Made in USA".  One other minor point Chrysler is not an American owned company having been bought out by Fiat they are Italian owned.


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## Smitty37 (Oct 17, 2011)

*Another list*

Here is another list....and one could say that Chrysler is not an American Car company.  This list is from Motor Trend

1. Dodge Avenger – 83%
2. Chrysler 200 sedan – 81%
3. Toyota Camry – 80%
3. Toyota Avalon – 80%
3. Honda Accord – 80%
4. Chevrolet Impala – 77%
5. Cadillac DTS – 76%
5. Buick Lucerne – 76%
6. Chevrolet Malibu – 75%
6. Chevrolet Corvette – 75%
6. Lincoln Town Car – 75%
6. Acura TL – 75%
7. Dodge Caliber – 73%
7. Chrysler 300 – 73%
8. Dodge Charger – 70%
8. Dodge Challenger – 70%
8. Honda Civic – 70%
9. Chevrolet Camaro – 66%
10. Toyota Matrix – 65%
10. Cadillac STS – 65%
10. Cadillac CTS – 65%
10. Ford Taurus – 65%
10. Ford Mustang – 65%


Read more: http://wot.motortrend.com/top-cars-north-american-parts-content-67627.html#ixzz1b4dVBuLH​


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## alphageek (Oct 17, 2011)

LOL... I love how some of our threads turn...   Where can I get one of those quality kit "cars"?


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## Smitty37 (Oct 17, 2011)

*Here*

www.hunterscobrakits.com :biggrin::biggrin:


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## Russianwolf (Oct 17, 2011)

Unless you can confirm that at least 50% of the stock of any of those companies is owned by US citizens, you could argue they are foreign owned.


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## Smitty37 (Oct 17, 2011)

*Not quite*

Actually that's not quite the way it works but in most cases it would not be at all difficult to identify every shareholder - how many shares they own, when they bought it, what they paid for it certain other information such as and where they live.  

Chrysler is 53% and change owned by Fiat, managed at the top by Fiat and plans are to integrate the offerings of the two.  A few years ago (from 1998 to 2007) virtually all of Chrysler was owned by DaimlerMotors a German company.  The Chrysler that Fiat owns is NOT the same Chrysler that existed from 1925 to 1998 - that company no longer exists.


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## Russianwolf (Oct 18, 2011)

And at the time, I owned shares of Daimler. Doesn't make me German. 

Not as simple as checking the shareholders of the company, you have to find out who owns the funds and companies that own the shareholders. I may own 10% of a fund the owns 20% of a company that own 5% of fiat that owns 53% of Chrysler. Get all that?


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## Smitty37 (Oct 18, 2011)

*hmmm*

The fund, not fund investors, is the owner of the stock.

You can also own American Mutual fund shares of funds which invest entirely in foreign financial insturments.  That doesn't make all of the companies that fund invest in American companies.


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## Sabaharr (Oct 18, 2011)

And all fo this has WHAT?????? to do with the quality of inexpensive Chinese pen kits?


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## Russianwolf (Oct 18, 2011)

Smitty37 said:


> The fund, not fund investors, is the owner of the stock.
> 
> Then why do I get voting reports from them specific to the companies in the fund? It depends on the fund you are set up in. One fund I invest in owns stakes in 6 companies and the fund's participants get to vote in those companies just as if we owned the stock outright (granted by proxy). Some funds are too big to do this, this one isn't. but that's beside the point. If I own 1% of a fund that owns 20% of a companies stock, then I am technically the owner of .2% of that companies stock. Regardless of if I let someone else vote the share. It's still ownership.
> 
> ...



My point is you said because Fiat owns 53%, some would argue that Chrysler wasn't American any longer. And I said that that could be argued for Ford or GM also as many of the shareholders and Fund owners are foreign. You'd have to track back to the individual owners to find out the true ownership % as there are many vehicles that can hide the true ownership ration, such as funds.

Fiat S.P.A. shares are selling for $6.50 right now. If I buy some, that makes Fiat under partial US ownership (and I'm assuming that there are some non-Italian owners already). If me and others buy up 53% of the stock in Fiat either directly or indirectly, it could be argued that Fiat is no longer Italian.


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## bitshird (Oct 18, 2011)

I can't believe that Americans are stupid/ dumb enough to buy ANY THING made by Fix It Again Tony, this company made Yugo look good!! But back to pen kits. there is an American alternative, and if I know one of the developers, there will be some awesome kits, not just the couple they make now. BUT you will pay for the quality and privilege of saying MADE IN AMERICA, Canada, I guess your still out of luck. And my apologies to OZ, C'mon if a Yank can do it Australia should make a great kit as well!!!


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## Russianwolf (Oct 18, 2011)

bitshird said:


> I can't believe that Americans are stupid/ dumb enough to buy ANY THING made by Fix It Again Tony, this company made Yugo look good!! But back to pen kits. there is an American alternative, and if I know one of the developers, there will be some awesome kits, not just the couple they make now. BUT you will pay for the quality and privilege of saying MADE IN AMERICA, Canada, I guess your still out of luck. And my apologies to OZ, C'mon if a Yank can do it Australia should make a great kit as well!!!



You know, at one point people said the same about Honda and Toyota. Think of the late 60's-early 70's  vintage cars from them. 600cc engine in the rear? Sound familiar? Tin Can Doors, Sound familiar? 

I'm not supporting them as I have only seen a couple of the 500s drive by, but car companies can come a long way in a short time.

Audi was horrible at one point, and now they are one of the "elite" brands.

I still drive  Dodge Truck :biggrin:


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## sbell111 (Oct 18, 2011)

Smitty37 said:


> sbell111 said:
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Regarding the bolded bit, that is one of the reasons that I used the phrase 'traditionally thought of as 'American'.  The other reasons dealt with not really knowing who owns how much stock of any of these companies and what it means to be an 'American' company in a world where products are sourced, built, and sold worldwide.


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## Smitty37 (Oct 18, 2011)

*Unusual*



Russianwolf said:


> Smitty37 said:
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> > The fund, not fund investors, is the owner of the stock.
> ...


 That fund seems to be working more like an investment trust than a mutual fund. By far most mutual funds the owners of shares in the fund have no direct ownership of the funds assets or voting rights in companies whose stocks the mutual fund owns. I'm sure you already knew that. 

I'm also sure that you know most foreign stocks traded including FIAT in the USA are ADRs where your ownership is not direct. I ADR can represent more or less than one share in the actual company and usually the company who issues the ADRs does the voting. If your broker deals on the Italian Stock Market you can probably own stock directly in Fiat.

But You are right about Chrysler --- Chrysler is again an American Company...Under Damlier Chrysler did not have separate stock...its assets were just owned by the German company. FIAT owns 53 % of Chrysler Group LLC stock but Chrysler Group LLC is a publically traded American Company.


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## Smitty37 (Oct 18, 2011)

*I was Wrong*



sbell111 said:


> Smitty37 said:
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I was incorrect in that statement...when Chrysler was absorbed by Damlier the Chrysler Corporation ceased to exist in the USA - when Damlier gave up it's interest in Chrysler a new company called Chrysler Group LLC was formed this is an American Corporation in which FIAT owns 53% of the stock. I think they started with 30 or 35 percent and the last 7 or 7 1/2 percent they got by buying out the US and Canadian Government stakes.


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## Smitty37 (Oct 18, 2011)

bitshird said:


> I can't believe that Americans are stupid/ dumb enough to buy ANY THING made by Fix It Again Tony, this company made Yugo look good!! But back to pen kits. there is an American alternative, and if I know one of the developers, there will be some awesome kits, not just the couple they make now. *BUT you will pay for the quality and privilege of saying MADE IN AMERICA,* Canada, I guess your still out of luck. And my apologies to OZ, C'mon if a Yank can do it Australia should make a great kit as well!!!


We do now...which is exactly why we see "Made in China", "Made in India"
Made in Bangladesh" or "Made IN ????" on so many things and Made in USA on so few.  We like to blame the American Companies for going off shore but in my opinion it was the American consumer.  We stopped looking for Made in USA and started looking for price.  Some of our biggest and best known brands now were NEVER made in the USA.


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## Sabaharr (Oct 19, 2011)

So can anyone tell me where to get the info or link for these American made kits? :befuddled:I , too, would like to support American made products whenever possible.


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## glycerine (Oct 19, 2011)

Sabaharr said:


> So can anyone tell me where to get the info or link for these American made kits? :befuddled:I , too, would like to support American made products whenever possible.


 
Send a PM to these guys, they'll be able to answer all of your questions:

marksman
Constant Laubscher


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## Smitty37 (Oct 19, 2011)

*Made in USA*

One thing we should all keep in mind here is that "Made in USA" is not the same badge of quality that it was when I was a young man.  

A phrase referring to American made that was frequently heard in the 70s was "late American junk".


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