# New generation of pens???



## jttheclockman (Feb 8, 2017)

Was thinking the other day and ran into some articles or ads from Micromark about their new line of 3D printers. It got me to thinking are we that much closer to seeing 3D printer made pens. Maybe 3D printer blanks that can have a ton new designs.

We have the ability now to use routers, lasers and cnc machines to make cutouts and infills, but how about taking it to the next step and having the entire blank done by the press of a button. 

Any thoughts????


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## CREID (Feb 8, 2017)

Yes, I have a thought.
Hmmm, I seem to be having a senior moment. 
Let me get back to you on that.


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## jttheclockman (Feb 9, 2017)

Take your time Curt. We will be waiting.


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## 1080Wayne (Feb 9, 2017)

I think I would rather watch a tree grow .


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## jttheclockman (Feb 9, 2017)

1080Wayne said:


> I think I would rather watch a tree grow .





If  tree grows in the forest and no one is around does it make a sound:biggrin:


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## CREID (Feb 9, 2017)

Only when it's sleeping if it has sleep apnea.:biggrin:


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## mredburn (Feb 9, 2017)

Not impossible but improbable.  Current methods of making blanks are way cheaper than printing.


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## skiprat (Feb 9, 2017)

If you are going to 'print' a pen, why not just 'print' what you wanted to write???? Cut out the middle man....:wink:

Jeesh.......some of us have to do all the logical thunkin around here...:biggrin:


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## Flush1974 (Feb 9, 2017)

I have been working on this idea for the last few months.  I hope to have some working products out in the next couple of months.  There are a few challenges with ensuring the depth of 4 sides are gradient so the image still has the fidelity the smaller it turns.  The other challenges reside around using multiple colors to create pictures versus bicolor blanks.

PS
Nothing replaces the awe of nature's blanks, as long as they are harvested responsibly.  More and more of our favorites are being put on the endangered list.  How do we as an organization have a voice/vehicle to help ensure our hobby has the sustainable/responsible products for years to come?


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## BeeAMaker (Feb 9, 2017)

Already on it, I have worked on a few designs. And no, it is not more expensive than current methods. I can print a 100 blanks for the price of one acrylic blank.

just a taste, I'll post more pics later


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## brownsfn2 (Feb 9, 2017)

No way this can be more fun then making them by hand.


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## BeeAMaker (Feb 9, 2017)

brownsfn2 said:


> No way this can be more fun then making them by hand.



Most of the materials 3D printed are not machinable, so the trick would be to print something, encapsulate it in acrylic, then turn it - so you still get the joy.  But yes, I could simply print a cylinder of the shape/design i want, glue in the brass tube and call it a day. Watching a 3D printer is almost as memorizing as turning a blank. :beauty:

There are some wood infused filaments, but I still don't think they would turn well. But my plan is to come up with some designs and then encapsulate them, much like some of the polymer and thread wrapped blanks.


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## jttheclockman (Feb 9, 2017)

Finally some sensible answers. Thank you Glenn and Mr. Flush Good to know my thoughts are not being wasted. I only have a few more left so I have to use wisely. 


I am not saying that they would be a replacement of anything but an addition to the vast arsenal we have already. Heck they keep coming up with new plastic ideas. We cast with different materials. Making of that special blank so that someone does not have to sit there and file their life away making a stainless steel bolt pen. :biggrin:

I will be watching if you do come up with some workable examples.


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## jttheclockman (Feb 9, 2017)

brownsfn2 said:


> No way this can be more fun then making them by hand.




Hey Ron from what I have been seeing not too sure about this. All I see is someone taking a piece of wood and making round. The imagination here is not tested. I am a little surprised sometimes being this is an elite pen making site that there are not more WOW pens showing up here. I believe we do not push ourselves enough here. You are going to see some special pens show up in some of these contests but it is way far and few between. Just an opinion


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## skiprat (Feb 9, 2017)

My feelings are hurt......:frown:


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## jttheclockman (Feb 9, 2017)

skiprat said:


> My feelings are hurt......:frown:



Which ones:biggrin:


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## brownsfn2 (Feb 9, 2017)

jttheclockman said:


> Hey Ron from what I have been seeing not too sure about this. All I see is someone taking a piece of wood and making round. The imagination here is not tested. I am a little surprised sometimes being this is an elite pen making site that there are not more WOW pens showing up here. I believe we do not push ourselves enough here. You are going to see some special pens show up in some of these contests but it is way far and few between. Just an opinion



Before Skiprat replied I was going to say that you have not seen his pens but he made the point. 

Honestly I know what you are saying but I am the type of pen maker that just has to take what I can get at times.  I get like 1-2 hours to make a pen sometimes I just get to turn it round and polish it.  That is still fun and relaxing for me.  If I had to design something in Corel or Sketch up every time I think I would lose interest.  Your point is not lost on me though.


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## BeeAMaker (Feb 9, 2017)

brownsfn2 said:


> jttheclockman said:
> 
> 
> > Hey Ron from what I have been seeing not too sure about this. All I see is someone taking a piece of wood and making round. The imagination here is not tested. I am a little surprised sometimes being this is an elite pen making site that there are not more WOW pens showing up here. I believe we do not push ourselves enough here. You are going to see some special pens show up in some of these contests but it is way far and few between. Just an opinion
> ...



It is definitely not for everyone, just like making pen blanks is not for everyone, but I bet you may be interested in buying a 3D printed pen blank to turn, _if it appealed to you_ - no different than buying that awesome looking wood blank.

It's just a different median, traditional pen turning is not in any danger.


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## Carl Fisher (Feb 9, 2017)

Stone Mask 2 18111


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## skiprat (Feb 9, 2017)

Carl, there a lot of very cool pens on that site but in my opinion, that 3D printed stone mask one isn't one of them. It looks like nothing more than a wax prototype for a future casting.


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## Curly (Feb 9, 2017)

I remember that one from the Fountain Pen Network. Instantly reminded me of Easter Island. There was another a year or two ago that was a spiral type form, painted red that was outstanding. Crazy shape possibilities but not my kind of pastime. Someday though I see the 3D printer being replaced with the 3D Cursive Writer.


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## BeeAMaker (Feb 9, 2017)

That Stone Mask pen was printed on a very expensive Printer. I'm doing mine on my self designed and built FDM printer (cost me less than the Lathe did)

There are also SLA printers that do a very nice job, you can get some really nice detail with an SLA. For example,


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## jttheclockman (Feb 9, 2017)

I believe there is a future in many things being made by a 3D printer. I also believe pen blanks and pens themselves will be coming off a 3D printer. technology is developing very fast. We maybe adding a contest someday that includes 3D printers. :biggrin:


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## BeeAMaker (Feb 9, 2017)

jttheclockman said:


> I believe there is a future in many things being made by a 3D printer. I also believe pen blanks and pens themselves will be coming off a 3D printer. technology is developing very fast. We maybe adding a contest someday that includes 3D printers. :biggrin:


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## BeeAMaker (Feb 10, 2017)

Played with a concept last night during the Hive meeting,





Now i need to figure out how to encapsulate it in Alumilite or something similar. I tried the XTC-3D stuff from smooth on but I'm not crazy about it. It sat over night and it is still soft, tacky. The rest I had mixed is hard as a rock, so not sure why it isn't hard on the print.

Maybe a mold so I can turn it down to .5mm or less above the print, but then I loose the fluting, might be OK though. I thought about not doing anything, but over time the 3D print will get filthy and it won't be easy to clean it becasue of the layering.

Right now this would be novelty thing. People at Maker Fairs love the 3D printed stuff, they are always wanting to buy my printed examples and such, so maybe a few dozen Trimlines with 3D printed body would go good. 

I was really surprised however, I put one I printed on my lathe and I could actually us the tools on it. I thought sure it would simply shred into pieces, but it actually cut nicely. This is PLA (Poly-lactic Acid, or corn starch) plastic. It is fairly strong and ridged, much like acrylic. It has a low melting point so it's not a pen you would want to leave in your car on a hot summer day lol.

You never discover new things unless you keep exploring - right?


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## darrin1200 (Feb 10, 2017)

There is a guy over on FPN working on an open source file.
The result so fa,  to me, is great.







Here is a link to the thread.

Open "fpn" 3D Printed Pen Design - Pen Turning and Making - The Fountain Pen Network

I think this will be just one more tool in the arsinal.


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## Ed McDonnell (Feb 10, 2017)

Printing in monochromatic plastic doesn't really excite me.  

Printing wax blanks that can be cast in metal is pretty exciting.  I think Mike is doing that with some of his Silver Pen Parts offerings.  This would probably put a bigger dent in the wallet than I would currently be comfortable with.

Printing metal blanks directly is uber exciting to me.  Unfortunately the equipment cost will likely remain uber uber expensive until long after I'm dust.

This was the first metal printed pen I saw a couple of years ago.  I don't like it, but I respect the skill embodied in the result.

https://www.lacouronneducomte.nl/webstore/main/pjotr-cavalry-fountain-print-p-5599.html?language=en

Here's a titanium printed pen that I think is really nice:

3ders.org - The pen mightier than the sword: Dutch designer releases titanium 3D printed fountain pen | 3D Printer News & 3D Printing News

The machine that was used runs over a quarter of a million dollars.  And that's just the printer.  I'd buy one in a heartbeat if I could afford it.  

Ed


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## skiprat (Feb 10, 2017)

Same train of thought as Ed for me. 
If I could make cool blanks like Mr Jon Brooks for example, then perhaps using a 3D printer to make a mold , to make those blanks in, would work. 
But that leads to the next dilemma.. whether you made multiple pens from just printing them out, or even molding the same style, how would that be different than buying a Bic? And where is the art or uniqueness or fun in all that?


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## Carl Fisher (Feb 10, 2017)

skiprat said:


> Carl, there a lot of very cool pens on that site but in my opinion, that 3D printed stone mask one isn't one of them. It looks like nothing more than a wax prototype for a future casting.



I don't disagree but it was on point to the question of why not 3D print the entire pen. As a pen maker it allows you to stop and think about what can be done to take it to the next level.

Me? I view 3D printing as rapid prototyping. I'd do something like that and then convert it to a model that could be milled on a 4 or 5 axis CNC from any stable material.


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## Carl Fisher (Feb 10, 2017)

skiprat said:


> Same train of thought as Ed for me.
> If I could make cool blanks like Mr Jon Brooks for example, then perhaps using a 3D printer to make a mold , to make those blanks in, would work.
> But that leads to the next dilemma.. whether you made multiple pens from just printing them out, or even molding the same style, how would that be different than buying a Bic? And where is the art or uniqueness or fun in all that?



You're bordering on injection molding at this point I would think.


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## Ed McDonnell (Feb 10, 2017)

skiprat said:


> Same train of thought as Ed for me.
> If I could make cool blanks like Mr Jon Brooks for example, then perhaps using a 3D printer to make a mold , to make those blanks in, would work.
> But that leads to the next dilemma.. whether you made multiple pens from just printing them out, or even molding the same style, how would that be different than buying a Bic? And where is the art or uniqueness or fun in all that?



I agree.  Mass producing items, no matter how it is done, is super boring to me.  But, using any kind of tool / machine to create one of a kind works of art is super exciting to me.  The creative process required to dream up and execute a unique work of art is where the fun is for me.  Sometimes CNC tools help me extend my creative abilities and do things that would be difficult / impossible with other methods.  3D printing offers some capabilities that can't be matched with any other methods.  I would love to have a metal printer, but with a cost that is currently eye-watering it's not going to happen.

But whether it's a cnc mill/router or a 3D printer, they are mind numbingly boring to watch in operation (unless the operator doesn't know what they are doing in which case the excitement level ramps up quickly).

Ed


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## Ed McDonnell (Feb 10, 2017)

Carl Fisher said:


> ...
> 
> Me? I view 3D printing as rapid prototyping. I'd do something like that and then convert it to a model that could be milled on a 4 or 5 axis CNC from any stable material.



There are some structures that can be done with 3D printing that would be impossible with any kind of CNC.  There are some abilities that come with additive machining that can't be duplicated with subtractive machining.

I have no experience with 5 axis CNC, but I would love to give it a try (even if it couldn't do everything a 3D printer is theoretically capable of doing).

Ed


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## jttheclockman (Feb 10, 2017)

Lets be realistic here folks. This is something that is in its infancy stage to say the least. But it is happening. Where it goes who knows. It is not for everyone. We as pen turners are always looking for that perfect finish to our pens and there are so many methods of getting there and yet we still are not satisfied. As well as there are so many ways to make a blank today does not mean there are no more. This is what I talk about here all the time. Imagination and thinking outside the box. There are tools that probably have not been invented yet but maybe they are in someones design  pile. Lets not just poo poo it but embrace it and hope it takes us to another level. I love the metal pens. I like the idea of the one of a kind. Skip makes one of a kind pens all the time and we ooh and aah over them so why can not this happen. 

I am not of the mind to be able to work machines like this as well as CNC machines or lasers. Not to say I could not learn but it is just not my thing but i welcome those that can and show us their work.


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## BeeAMaker (Feb 10, 2017)

In my company I use the 3D printers for just that - Rapid prototyping. Make sure the part is correct before sending it for machining or molding. I also use it to print other parts for other 3D printers.

For me it is the challenge of being able to do it, designing it, learning what works and what doesn't.  I'm a true believer in knowledge is power and my brain is a sponge So if nothing else in doing this, I'm learning something.


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## BRobbins629 (Feb 10, 2017)

I often find that designing a new pen is more enjoyment than making one.  Designing and coding for CNCs or 3D printing with or without design software has always kept me going. Not for everyone, but it's something I like to do. My first experience with 3D printing was many years ago at work when even primitive machines were very expensive.  I have seen a few penmakes print feeds which are typically ABS and what most feeds are made from today. Also have seen parts such as roll stops and clips printed in castable materials to make silver parts. The list of printable materials keeps growing as does the equipment resolution. Although I can't say I'm too happy with my personal printer, the future does look bright.


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## TattooedTurner (Feb 10, 2017)

I have a friend that makes shaving brushes. He used a 3D printer to make a 3 part mold so he could cast barber pole blanks. That's something that us hobbyists could never do before, and I'm sure there will be more ideas to follow. I'm not so much excited about 3D blanks as I am the intricate molds that can be made with one.


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## Carl Fisher (Feb 10, 2017)

Ed McDonnell said:


> Carl Fisher said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



Agreed, however there are somethings that can be done the other way around as well. i.e. overhangs and bridging on a 3d printer are problematic while simply flipping a part upside down and removing can create your part.

So they definitely both have pros and cons. No one tool to rule them all in this case.


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## darrin1200 (Feb 11, 2017)

Thats the thing, a 3D printer is just a tool. It's mainly that, after the design phase, each tool has less and less human interaction during the manufacturing process.

While I love to design and make one of a kind unique pens by hand and lathe, I would be exstatic to have a fully automated, industrial cnc. Put in a load of stock material, turn it on, walk away and out comes a $100 pen (or at least the compnents to assemble one). Mind you,  this hinges on having a client base to support it. But I would still sit at my bench and lathe, creating unique one of a kind pens, essentially with enough funding to try any of my hairbrained ideas.

Advancement in technology is facinating. Here we talk about home use CNC, while 20-30 years ago, these machines were delegated to only the big boy manufactureres, and had to be housed in there own buildings. Now guys are building them in their basement.

Much like the development from the early monochrome inkjet print, what will the 3D printer be like when it becomes multicolour, or even multi-material. 

I can't wait to see it, but for now I am in my basement shop, learning how to use my new-to-me metal lathe, working on one project at a time.


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## BeeAMaker (Feb 11, 2017)

darrin1200 said:


> what will the 3D printer be like when it becomes multicolour, or even multi-material.



Already here 
Still in their infancy stage, but here non the less. Just one step closer to the ultimate Start Trek Replicator.


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## BeeAMaker (Feb 12, 2017)

and the other thing I use 3D printers for,





Got about maybe 0.02 cents worth of plastic. I'll print these all day while I work and have a tidy little place to keep all my bushings organized. :laugh:


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## KBs Pensnmore (Feb 12, 2017)

Flush1974 said:


> Nothing replaces the awe of nature's blanks, as long as they are harvested responsibly.  More and more of our favorites are being put on the endangered list.  How do we as an organization have a voice/vehicle to help ensure our hobby has the sustainable/responsible products for years to come?



That is a very hard question, eventually it will come, but could be too late by then. We take timber for granted, think of 2 football ovals being cleared, every minute worldwide.
Most (90%) of my blanks come from prunings or are recycled from other timber objects, products.
Kryn


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## sbwertz (Feb 12, 2017)

Another interesting point...the new 1.5 watt NeJe laser engraver will engrave on 3D printed items.  I tried it on Corian, but it wouldn't engrave it.  Then I thought about it a second and realized that Corian, because it is used for countertops, is made to be heat resistant.  I haven't tried it on other plastics except for the 3d printed item.


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## BeeAMaker (Feb 12, 2017)

sbwertz said:


> Another interesting point...the new 1.5 watt NeJe laser engraver will engrave on 3D printed items.  I tried it on Corian, but it wouldn't engrave it.  Then I thought about it a second and realized that Corian, because it is used for countertops, is made to be heat resistant.  I haven't tried it on other plastics except for the 3d printed item.



Corian is a acrylic polymer and alumina trihydrate (ATH), the 1.5 watts won't touch it because of it's density. You need a stronger Laser. I work with Corian often and it is not heat resistant in the least. In fact, we bend Corian with heat guns and too much heat will cause it to turn brown. Setting a hot pan on it can cause it to scorch as well. Think of this, a Cigarette butt (about 600f) will scorch and discolor Corian but your 1.5 watt Laser won't.


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