# Friction Polish over Lacquer



## Ryan (Mar 9, 2005)

Ok, I have been told do not use FP UNDER Lacquer but what about OVER Lacquer. I have not been getting the gloss results I want from Just Deft and Ren Wax.

Thanks for all your comments.

Ryan


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## timdaleiden (Mar 9, 2005)

I wouldn't do it. Laquer gets pretty soft when heated, at least until it has cured. If you are using gloss laquer, it should be as shiny as glass, depending on how you use it.


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## ctEaglesc (Mar 9, 2005)

I have never done a "french" polish but from what I understand the "padding" motion is meant to build up heat as in a friction polish.
I believe they use lacquer in a french polish such as grand pianos.
The Mylands 3 step method is cellolose sanding seler, HIgh build polish and carnauba wax, 3 coats of each.
You might want to give it a try.
I would use the lacquer sparingly,try heating it in like you would the FP.
Give it a couple of coats.
then use the fp.
What can you lose?
You're not happy with what you have been using.
it's all a process of elimination.
(If the paper towel or cloth wads up around the barrel while applying it, my advice probably wasn't good.but at least you will know whether it works or not.
Please post results.)


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## Gary (Mar 9, 2005)

Ryan, rather than putting something on top of a lacquer to make it glossy, modify your technique of applying the lacquer. Think of the high gloss finishes you have seen on quality stringed instruments. Most of those are lacquer. The secret to a good lacquer finish is to sand properly then start with a quality lacquer; build up multiple thin layers and rub it out to the depth and gloss you want.

You have probably already done this, but make sure you aren't using a satin finish lacquer. Also, thinning a lacquer will often reduce the gloss. I hope this helps.


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## Gary (Mar 9, 2005)

> _Originally posted by cteaglesc_
> <br />I have never done a "french" polish but from what I understand the "padding" motion is meant to build up heat as in a friction polish.
> I believe they use lacquer in a french polish such as grand pianos.
> The Mylands 3 step method is cellolose sanding seler, HIgh build polish and carnauba wax, 3 coats of each.
> ...



French polishing is a technique. It is not a finish, although there once was a product sold under the trade name French Polish. French polishing is the techniqye of applying shellac with a cloth pad. Lacquer is not used in French polishing. Shellac is the only finish that can be applied by French polishing.


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## ctEaglesc (Mar 10, 2005)

Gary-
Thanks for the clarification, I misspoke.
After reading your post I did a Google on french polish and read a short explanation of the application method.
Quite a while ago I watched the"furniure guys" do a show that included "french polishing" and the had a segment about pianos.
I just figured that a lacquer finish was more durable than shelac.
I put 2&2 together and got 5.
All that withstanding,I would still experiment with it seeing that both finish materials use the excrement from the "lac" bug.


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## Old Griz (Mar 10, 2005)

Ryan, another thing not mentioned on using lacquer for a finish.  Lacquer needs to cure before the final polish... lacquer can take about a week to totally cure depending on temp and humidity, remember that each coat of lacquer dissolves and adheres to the coat under it, therefore it cures from the bottom up... if the lacquer finish is nice and smooth you should be able to get a real nice high gloss finish by using Automotive polishing compound followed by Novus or Hut Plastic polish, but you need to let the lacquer cure... 
I use lacquer a lot on my higher grade scroll saw projects that are done in figured woods... I learned this lesson the hard way.. LOL... had to sand the finish down to almost bare wood and redo it on a 24x38" project in figured redwood... what a PIA... expecially making sure all the sanding dust was out of all the little cut lines.. Lacquer is a gorgeous finish, IF you don't short cut the system and that means letting it cure completely..


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## Fred in NC (Mar 10, 2005)

Shellac is also a "repairable" finish because the shellac will still dissolve in alcohol.  I have refinished a couple old French polished boxes.  Unfortunately it is not good for a table top where you are going to put glasses, etc.  Water also affects shellac.  A wet glass will produce a whitish ring. 

About lacquer.  The original is a nitrocellulose product.  Today there are many finishes that use the lacquer name, but have entirely different formulations.  So they don't all cure the same way or in the same amount of time.


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## jdavis (Mar 10, 2005)

Use gloss lacquer. It will shine highly if applied correctly.


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## Ryan (Mar 11, 2005)

Thanks all for your information.

Ryan


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## RPM (Mar 11, 2005)

I am now sold on lacquer finishes.  I agree with the previous comment about using gloss and if applied properly you will get a high shine.  I have been using a combination of several suggestions from folks here on the forum and this is what has been working for me.

- several coats of sealer, sand, mm to desired smoothness
- three good, even coats of deft gloss lacquer at least 30 minutes apart while lathe is turning at medium speed.  it takes just a little practice but I've found that you fail to get a good gloss under two circumstances, 1 you don't put on enough lacquer and you get an orange peel effect that must be sanded out  2 you put on too much and you get blobs.  practice on some turned scraps and you'll get it.  I built a cardboard spray booth that fits over the pen and mandrel so that I don't get lacquer all over everything.
- allow to cure at least overnight.  lightly buff out with the last two or three grades of mm
- several good coats buffed out of TSW

This process has been giving me a tough glass like finish
Richard


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## Old Griz (Mar 11, 2005)

Richard, I think that if you use the canned Deft instead of the spray you will eliminate some of the problems with orange peel and blobs... just use an old tshirt to apply... 
Also I would recommend a longer curing time at least 2-3 days if your shop is warm and dry to get complete curing... 
Other than that you have a sound technique... keep it up..


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## Ryan (Mar 11, 2005)

Guys I have been playing around and I think I have found a combo that works pretty well.

1st coat Deft spray 
2nd coat Deft from the can
Dry overnight
3rd coat Deft spray

At first I was only using the deft sprayed onto the rag and wiped on. In order for it to be sprayed I am betting they thined it. 

Thined + Wipe on = Too thin of a coat for only 3 applications.

In the above the first sprayed coat will act as a sealer. The 2nd coat is thicker and would be the build coat. The third would add a little to the build and get any missed spots.

This seems to have helped with making it shine, yet not loosing the wood feel.

Ryan


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## timdaleiden (Mar 11, 2005)

It sounds like you found a combination that works for you. If you still use the Ren wax, wait until the laquer has cured. If I use Ren wax, I lightly buff it after it dries. Most of the time, I don't use it at all.


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## Gary (Mar 11, 2005)

Congrats, Ryan. Done properly, lacquer is a great finish. I have yet to find anything that I like as well.


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## Gary (Mar 13, 2005)

> _Originally posted by cteaglesc_
> <br />Gary-
> Thanks for the clarification, I misspoke.
> After reading your post I did a Google on french polish and read a short explanation of the application method.
> ...



Anyone attempting to French Polish using lacquer is in for a big mess. Shellac and lacquer are not "both finishes materials that use the excretment of the lac bug".


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