# Ebay seller rip-off!?



## yorkie (Jun 19, 2011)

I just came across this listing on Ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Diva-Charm-Pens...536?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item230f8d0168

This guy is selling a set of 5 Diva kits you buy from PSI for $54.75 on Ebay for $250.

How can ripping people off to this degree be legal?  I guess 'a foll and their money...'

Yikes!


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## LanceD (Jun 19, 2011)

Looks like he's selling completed pens and not the kits only. Read the description down below.


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## workinforwood (Jun 19, 2011)

Doesn't seem so bad to me. I see you get 5 pens, so you are buying each one for $50 ea. Completed pens, not just kits. From what you say, the cost is $11 ea for kit, and lets just say $5 ea for resin, so that's a cost of $16 per pen plus whatever shipping he paid to get the kits and his ebay fees, so he's charging $30 labor per pen. That's not unreasonable. I could be convinced to do it cheaper, but not by much. Especially since part of your labor will include any paint, glue, and electricity and heat or A/C ..I think this guy is right on the money.


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## yorkie (Jun 19, 2011)

I don't think so.  His description states: "Parker style refill and is easy to turn and assemble'.  

There's a bleeding heart above the description about supporting nephews etc.  I have contacted him to see what's going on but these do not read as finished.


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## TellicoTurning (Jun 19, 2011)

Looks like he is selling a finished pen... he's setting prices where he thinks his work should be... no faulting him there... we see a number of pens made from kits that are far less than the final price of the finished pen... in the end though, I think this particular pen style is far too gaudy and I would not make it nor attempt to sell... I wish him well and lots of profits.


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## yorkie (Jun 19, 2011)

If they were completed pens it would be a deal, but the picture is a straight copy and paste from PSI.  If completed, where's the picture of the finished pens?

Sorry to sound so fussy about this but it's just plain wrong.


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## workinforwood (Jun 19, 2011)

I read same thing.

You are looking at a stylish new Diva Charm Pen series. The caps feature genuine Swarovski® crystals on the cap band and an attractive Swarovski® crystal charm suspended off the cap end. This beautiful, smooth writing pen is sure to get noticed. Pen components are plated in Gold T/N and Rhodium to match. Features a single 3/8" tube, a flawless mechanism (in the cap), Parker style refill and is easy to turn and assemble. Please note the pen colors will have some variations but will match the crystals!  Unless you have a different presence, please ask- Please allow 2-3 weeks  for delivery~

As you continue reading is says pen colors will have some variations but will match crystals..I interpret that means each blank is the same but not, and it says allow 2-3 weeks so I have to think that means he hasn't made the pens until you order them, and then he has to get busy.

You may be right that it's just kits, I don't really know, but I interpret it as an order for completed pens.


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## pensbydesign (Jun 19, 2011)

defiantly confusing, that write sounds to me can go ether way


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## yorkie (Jun 19, 2011)

Just to be sure, I've emailed him for clarification and will post back when I hear.


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## beck3906 (Jun 19, 2011)

yorkie said:


> Just to be sure, I've emailed him for clarification and will post back when I hear.


 
Are you emailing him to purchase some of his work? If not, I don't understand why asking him about his listing should make a difference.  If he's selling the kits and can get the price, more power to him.  If he's selling completed pens, his price is fair.

Now the site below is one that I laugh about knowing the price I can buy for elsewhere.

http://www.usadisplay.net/pen2.htm


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## ohiococonut (Jun 19, 2011)

He copied the picture and description from PSI then added the last two lines. I have to agree with Jeff. Looks like he's actually taking orders but may or may not have enough to complete an order which is why he wants the lead time.


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## renowb (Jun 19, 2011)

WOW! You can definitely get those items cheaper!



beck3906 said:


> yorkie said:
> 
> 
> > Just to be sure, I've emailed him for clarification and will post back when I hear.
> ...


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## JimB (Jun 19, 2011)

To me it looks like he just forgot to edit what he copied from the PSI website desciption. I bet he didn't intend to leave in the part about 'easy to turn and assemble'.


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## monark88 (Jun 19, 2011)

Also maybe he or she is including a blank matching each crystal. Whatever, remember its "Buyer Be Ware"

If someone Bites on this ad, then who's to blame. I don't care what they charge. Profit is profit last time I looked. Unscrupulous overcharges are still legal, if unethical.

Bottom line, the guy ain't gonna sell these and he gets to give eBay money to list these ugly kits/pens.

As always, just MHO.

Russ


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## Timebandit (Jun 19, 2011)

So how is it a Con to sell something for way over priced in a place that allows you to set the price on each individual item as you see fit. Con??? I think not!!!....Rip off maybe....but Con no. Ebay allows you to sell these for what ever you see fit. There is no Con work going on here. Not only that but he isnt telling you hes selling you something that they are not(like saying they are one kit when they are clearly another).


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## DozerMite (Jun 19, 2011)

Who really cares what their price is?

If you don't like it...move on. There isn't any reason to criticize them.
You do what you do... and let them do what they do.


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## yorkie (Jun 19, 2011)

You're right, TimeBandit not a con, maybe, but definitely a rip-off by anyone's standards.  So, I just changed the thread header respectively.

I'm hoping they come completed but I have a suspicion they are just the kits.  I'd like to be wrong but I feel that people have a duty to point out when an injustice is happening otherwise where does it all end?

Ripping people off is not profit, it's ripping people off.


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## JimB (Jun 19, 2011)

yorkie said:


> You're right, TimeBandit not a con, maybe, but definitely a rip-off by anyone's standards. So, I just changed the thread header respectively.
> 
> I'm hoping they come completed but I have a suspicion they are just the kits. I'd like to be wrong but I feel that people have a duty to point out *when an injustice is happening* otherwise where does it all end?
> 
> Ripping people off is not profit, it's ripping people off.


 
The injustice being done here is being done by you. You do not even know what he is selling (kits or completed pens) and you are saying he is ripping people off.


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## youthinthewild (Jun 19, 2011)

Would it be wrong if someone bought these for $250 made and sold each pen for $250 is that person then ripping off another person?


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## Finatic (Jun 19, 2011)

I see no problem here. The seller is allowed to ask whatever he wants for the item he's selling. If you think it's too high, then don't buy it. I read somewhere in my misguided youth, try not to judge lest ye be judged.


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## Holz Mechaniker (Jun 19, 2011)

most likely he did a copy and paste off of PSI.


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## dogcatcher (Jun 19, 2011)

Willing buyer and a willing seller, I don't see it as a rippoff.  If it was for only a kit I see it as more of a case of an ignorant buyer.  Personally I would like to have a few buyers that would pay $$50 for a kit that cost $11.  I wonder if PSI drop ships?


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## Holz Mechaniker (Jun 20, 2011)

I received a message  back from that seller, he states that they are completed pens so his/her pricing is right on.


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## ghostrider (Jun 20, 2011)

yorkie said:


> If they were completed pens it would be a deal,  but the picture is a straight copy and paste from PSI.  If completed,  where's the picture of the finished pens?
> 
> Sorry to sound so fussy about this but it's just plain wrong.


Regardless of what he's selling, and what he's selling them for, people are free to spend their money as they see fit.

What surprises me is how people seem to think little of what is commonly known as theft of intellectual property. 

Maybe a discrete note to PSI to inform them of someone who is most likely using their property without their permission.


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## Smitty37 (Jun 20, 2011)

*Yes*



dogcatcher said:


> Willing buyer and a willing seller, I don't see it as a rippoff. If it was for only a kit I see it as more of a case of an ignorant buyer. Personally I would like to have a few buyers that would pay $$50 for a kit that cost $11. I wonder if PSI drop ships?


 They will if you are an authorized reseller.


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## workinforwood (Jun 20, 2011)

No doubt this entire thread was a misunderstanding to begin with. I don't think the real intent was that the seller has no right to charge whatever, I think it was more of a buddy buddy comment amongst friends like "wow can u believe someone would pay that for a kit?" And let's be honest, the ad implied some confusion. I believe what this thread is is what happens in typed conversation rather than spoken word.


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## Smitty37 (Jun 20, 2011)

*Hmmm*



yorkie said:


> If they were completed pens it would be a deal, but the picture is a straight copy and paste from PSI. If completed, where's the picture of the finished pens?
> 
> Sorry to sound so fussy about this but it's just plain wrong.


The picture is of completed pens....

He asks for lead time of 2 -3 weeks.  Sounds like he is turning the pens after he gets an order. 

Whether kits or completed pens, his asking price is his business.  If someone wants to ask $100 each for slimline pen kits - so what?  I suspect they would not sell very many but the asking price can be whatever they want it to be. 

We can only be "ripped off" if we are mislead as to what something is or  its value.  We are not "ripped off" if we don't know what the market value of something we buy is and pay more....we're just dumb. 

Sorry it looks like nothing illegal, immoral or fattening going on here....


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## Woodlvr (Jun 20, 2011)

This is ridiculous- One person writes what he thinks MAY be an injustice but his so called pen turning friends tear him apart for trying to warn other about a possible rip off situation. No wonder so many of the old timers have quit contributing and posting. JMHO.


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## jimm1 (Jun 20, 2011)

Woodlvr said:


> This is ridiculous- One person writes what he thinks MAY be an injustice but his so called pen turning friends tear him apart for trying to warn other about a possible rip off situation. No wonder so many of the old timers have quit contributing and posting. JMHO.


 
       +1 here


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## Smitty37 (Jun 20, 2011)

*Not quite*



Woodlvr said:


> This is ridiculous- One person writes what he thinks MAY be an injustice but his so called pen turning friends tear him apart for trying to warn other about a possible rip off situation. No wonder so many of the old timers have quit contributing and posting. JMHO.


He said 

"This guy is selling a set of 5 Diva kits you buy from PSI for $54.75 on Ebay for $250.

How can ripping people off to this degree be legal? I guess 'a foll and their money...'

Yikes!" 

That reads to me like he is not simply trying to "warn" others of a possible injustice -- he is accusing the seller of "ripping people".  

He was chastised for not having the facts straight before he put forth his accusation.  The person was not selling kits, he was selling finished pens.


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## Woodlvr (Jun 20, 2011)

never mind- disregard my post-


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## workinforwood (Jun 20, 2011)

A lot gets lost in threads like these. Could be Yorkie was just having a bad day. We all make mistakes regardless. He screwed up and jumped the gun to boot, be it by bad wording or whatever the intentions may have been. Now lets stop piling on the embarrassment and forgive him already. Lets not turn this into the, uh...emotional gender forum.


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## yorkie (Jun 20, 2011)

Who'd have thought my comments would have led to such a long debate.

My intention was to raise awareness of an act I feel unfair by any standard; overpricing and waiting for a fool to come along and be taken for a ride.  

It does appear that this is for a set of completed pens however, I sent an email to the Ebayer asking about completed or not and am still not sure that is actually the case after a short and ambiguous email.  His Ebay history does not include any pen selling and none of his other items for sale are for completed pens; I'm no fool guys.  In addition, he has a ton of negative comments from people claiming he ripped them off.

Not sure what I'm more disturbed by, the amount of comments implying it's okay to rip people off if they're dumb enough to buy it, or the chastising for trying to do the right thing by alerting everyone to what could be seen as a sore upon our hobby.

Either way, my intention was to do the right thing by shining a light on the wrong thing.  Sorry so many of you took it the wrong way, thanks to those who appreciated the effort.


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## workinforwood (Jun 20, 2011)

It's all cool Steve. I get what your intentions are. But...on the flip side, if I need a pen I'll be making my own rather than contacting anyone on ebay. :biggrin:


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## Texatdurango (Jun 20, 2011)

Woodlvr said:


> never mind- disregard my post-


 
Mike, You did the right thing in deleting your post, you were getting ready to be chewed up for no reason.  I didn't get a chance to read it but in your earlier post you hit the nail on the head as to why so many are posting less and less all the time.  You can count on the fact that there are a dozen or so members who live at their keyboards just waiting to pounce on you for the least little thing willing to spend all day making a mountain out of a mole hill just for the sake of a good argument which goes on and on and on and on.... as seen above by several of our "right-fighters"!


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## DurocShark (Jun 21, 2011)

/me pounces for no reason


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## IPD_Mr (Jun 21, 2011)

Texatdurango said:


> Woodlvr said:
> 
> 
> > never mind- disregard my post-
> ...


 
_I was going to send this in a private but felt is need to be said out loud. _

Truer words were never spoken and good for you for posting this. We need to go back to the days of posting about spelling errors not which side of the fence your legs are on when we want to stir a pot. This is why so many of our old time good contributing members have bailed ship. At one time this site use to be about pen crafting and advancing our skills. 

Thank you to the long standing members who have ignored most of these types of post and continue to try and advance our hobby.


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## Smitty37 (Jun 21, 2011)

*I disagree guys*

I just read back through this whole thread....And I did not see anyone being "ripped apart" or even heavily critized.   There were one or two posts mildly critical because the original poster posted before finding out the facts.  Several posts mentioned the ebay listing being lifted from the PSI Catalog and a few mentioned a different site referring to overcharging.  No one got nasty - even the critical posts were made using factual statements.  That's what a casual conversation forum is for.


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## yorkie (Jun 21, 2011)

So, to continue the 'casual conversation'.  

I still have not received a reply from this Ebayer when I asked about what kind of acrylics, wood or color choices are available and if the pens will arrive completed.  His feedback is full of accusations and it seems pretty clear that all he has done is copy and paste to see if anyone will bite.  

I'm still inclined into this being someone re-selling pen kits and allowing ambiguity to be a defense.  No history of ever making pens and no pens for sale within a huge list of items for sale currently, all obvious evidence points to this guy not being a pen turner.

So, posting a thread without facts aside...I don't think it takes a Sherlock Holmes to figure this one out.

Anyway, let's all move on to other topics and let this one die a slow death.


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## alphageek (Jun 21, 2011)

yorkie said:


> So, to continue the 'casual conversation'.
> 
> I still have not received a reply from this Ebayer when I asked about what kind of acrylics, wood or color choices are available and if the pens will arrive completed.  His feedback is full of accusations and it seems pretty clear that all he has done is copy and paste to see if anyone will bite.
> 
> ...



Stephen,

I agree that some of your post has good points (like bad writing, copying of info, and mediocre responses to questions.... all common to many on ebay) , but I think your making some very big assumptions too.   Maybe this person isn't a pen turner, but maybe they are acting as a 'drop ship' type thing for a turner.  

 You have said two things now that really catch my eye... "_In addition, he has a ton of negative comments from people claiming he ripped them off."_ and _"His feedback is full of accusations"_ .   This person has over 6000 sales and less that 40 negative feedback in the last 6 months.   Only 1 person said ripoff and 30 of the 40 comments came from only 3 buyers.    I think you are being a bit rough given a 99.5% positive rating.

As for ambiguity.... that may be true, but eBay as a whole should be rated: "caveat emptor".


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## yorkie (Jun 21, 2011)

Truly, not that big a deal.  Looking forward to moving on.

Thanks for your comments, guys.


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## itzapen (Jun 24, 2011)

I'm gonna take a seat over here in the corner, prop my feet up, open a frosty Dr Pepper and watch the fur fly.  Life is way to short for all of this.


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## alphageek (Jun 24, 2011)

itzapen said:


> I'm gonna take a seat over here in the corner, prop my feet up, open a frosty Dr Pepper and watch the fur fly.  Life is way to short for all of this.



?? Yet you opened the thread back up for comments 3 days after it quieted down?


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## Texatdurango (Jun 24, 2011)

alphageek said:


> itzapen said:
> 
> 
> > I'm gonna take a seat over here in the corner, prop my feet up, open a frosty Dr Pepper and watch the fur fly. Life is way to short for all of this.
> ...


 
WOW........... me and alphageek finally agree on something!


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## CREID (Jun 24, 2011)

Woodlvr said:


> This is ridiculous- One person writes what he thinks MAY be an injustice but his so called pen turning friends tear him apart for trying to warn other about a possible rip off situation. No wonder so many of the old timers have quit contributing and posting. JMHO.


 I don't think others are ripping him apart, there are just a lot of people on this forum and you get a lot of responses, which seems like you are getting ripped. 
We are after all encouraged to participate and contribute. 
This just goes to show however the importance of fact checking before starting a thread like this.
I applaud him however, for after hearing from a few, that he might have made a mistake, he is emailing the person to get clarification.
Curt


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## CREID (Jun 24, 2011)

IPD_Mr said:


> Texatdurango said:
> 
> 
> > Woodlvr said:
> ...


 Oh, nouw ware goen aftar spellers!:monkey:
Curt


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## CREID (Jun 24, 2011)

Smitty37 said:


> I just read back through this whole thread....And I did not see anyone being "ripped apart" or even heavily critized. There were one or two posts mildly critical because the original poster posted before finding out the facts. Several posts mentioned the ebay listing being lifted from the PSI Catalog and a few mentioned a different site referring to overcharging. No one got nasty - even the critical posts were made using factual statements. That's what a casual conversation forum is for.


 I agree, there are all kinds of personalities here, from different cultures and different locations on the globe. What you may call ripping someone may be just someones way of politely saying "I think you got it wrong".
Curt


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