# Does Shellawax Cream Last



## jrap (Sep 9, 2012)

Ok so i have been using some cheap poly to finish my pens and wanted to take a step up. I dont like ca finishes as it keeps woods from looking natural. So i was looking at shellawax but wanted to know if the finish lasts well.


----------



## nativewooder (Sep 9, 2012)

If I expect a finish to last, I don't use anything with "wax" in the name.  That's just the way it is.  Perhaps you should try General Woodturner's Finish.


----------



## hunter-27 (Sep 9, 2012)

jrap said:


> Ok so i have been using some cheap poly to finish my pens and wanted to take a step up. I dont like ca finishes as it keeps woods from looking natural. So i was looking at shellawax but wanted to know if the finish lasts well.


In short, NO!


----------



## JF36 (Sep 9, 2012)

The best finish I have found for keeping wood looking natural but yet protected is general finishes arm-r-seal semigloss


----------



## longbeard (Sep 9, 2012)

Finishing 

good stuff from exoticblanks


----------



## edstreet (Sep 10, 2012)

Lets see here



> Shellawax Friction Polish is a blend of Shellac and Wax



Does Pigs fly?

Two of the things that does not hold up very well at all. Sure use it by all means as a dressing but not the main finish.  A dressing is something you maintain it with every so often.

If you want something that will stand the test of time then you want tung oil, Boiled linseed oil, walnut oil.


----------



## jrap (Sep 10, 2012)

ok thanks for the info. so does the wood turners finish last well


----------



## edstreet (Sep 10, 2012)

NO, that one is water based.  Water raises grain, increases moisture content of the wood and those are bad bad and bad.  it is: 60-70% water, 3-10% glycol ethers, 7-25% polyurethane, 3-5% nonionic polyethylene,  less than 6% n-methyl-2-pyrrolidone, 1-1.5% trimethlybenzene-1,2,4.  If you want poly then go get some wipe on poly and use that. works wonders and does not have water in it.

CA seems to last on pens but larger objects you can forget it.  Tung oil, Teak oil, Boiled Linseed oil, Danish oil.  Those will last very good.


----------



## alphageek (Sep 11, 2012)

edstreet said:


> NO, that one is water based.  Water raises grain, increases moisture content of the wood and those are bad bad and bad.  it is: 60-70% water, 3-10% glycol ethers, 7-25% polyurethane, 3-5% nonionic polyethylene,  less than 6% n-methyl-2-pyrrolidone, 1-1.5% trimethlybenzene-1,2,4.  If you want poly then go get some wipe on poly and use that. works wonders and does not have water in it.
> 
> CA seems to last on pens but larger objects you can forget it.  Tung oil, Teak oil, Boiled Linseed oil, Danish oil.  Those will last very good.



Interesting opinion Ed, but I'm not sure that I agree with it.

The oils you listed may be great for larger objects that aren't handled much, but pens - on a lot of woods, many don't consider those finishes at all.

As for wood turners finish, I don't think that you can base it completely on the listing of materials as the people that designed it made it so to make it easy for turners to use by making it partially water based, but since they make floor finishes they know how to make long lasting.   I saw some things finished with this and they looked VERY good.   I just finished my first pen with it and will be using it as my daily carry to test out the durability that others have seen.


----------



## edstreet (Sep 11, 2012)

I know for a fact that CA finish will not hold up on knives. I have tried that on several and they flake off in patches very quickly.

The oils you will need to build them up with multiple applications and they will fill holes and form a glass like surface that is smooth.  We use them in the black powder arena on small objects as well as firearm stocks and they indeed hold up super well under intense abuse for a very long time.

These oils I mentioned are used heavy on saddles, bags and the like which see's more use than pens. stonemasons use it in kitchens; painters, etc.

How do you consider the oils not a finish?


----------



## alphageek (Sep 11, 2012)

edstreet said:


> I know for a fact that CA finish will not hold up on knives. I have tried that on several and they flake off in patches very quickly.
> 
> The oils you will need to build them up with multiple applications and they will fill holes and form a glass like surface that is smooth.  We use them in the black powder arena on small objects as well as firearm stocks and they indeed hold up super well under intense abuse for a very long time.
> 
> ...



See post #5 in this thread:  http://www.penturners.org/forum/f28/tung-oil-93366/

Hank (leehljp) has done many type of finishes and does some amazing pens and stated very well the reason why something that holds abuse on certain objects doesn't necessarily translate to other areas.


----------



## GaryMGg (Sep 11, 2012)

edstreet said:


> ... Boiled Linseed oil ... Those will last very good.


Ed,
I can't speak to any of the other oils but WRT BLO, this suggestion is not a good one in my experience.
BLO w/o a protective built-up sealed finish over it will allow your nice, clean looking pen to become dirty and muddy looking.

Take a hard maple blank, coat it with BLO, let it cure then handle it a while.
It'll look grey and dingy soon enough.


----------



## soundman (Sep 11, 2012)

UM sorry I have to disagree.....shelawax  does last...it realy depends on what you are expecting and how you have applied it.

I have daily user pens that have been finished with shelawax glow that have been in my pocket day after day in a tradesmans pocket for years.
I also have some friends and relatives that still carry some of my early wooden pens from 5 to 6 years ago, finished in shelawax, and they still look fine.

I have a couple that have been thru the wash, if the finish is properly burnished in, it is surprisng what it will,stand up to....the pens that have been thru the wash don't look marvelous but the finish is still there

BUT

On pens I use shelawax liquid, mostly shelawax glow.
Cream I find too thick for the small turnings......you will not get enough heat and friction on pens to get cream to go off properly.

I used cream on some early pens, and the results where disaponiting.....the general rule is cream above 50mm ( 2 inches) dameter  use the cream below use the liquid....there is some variance.
I was having problems with the glow the other day on a marginal sized piece ( gear knobs) not working right, changed to the cream all good.

Shelawax is an blend of shelac, waxes and other stuff, do not assume it is a wax it is not.

A lot of people have disapointing results, because they do not use the correct product and they do not apply it properly.
Check the U beaut web site for instructions and the shelawax problem solver.

Here in Australia shelawax is pretty popular, and  a great many of us know Neil, the maker personaly....AND we have all seen it demoed  and been told what people commonly do wrong.

Don't get me wrong its not as durable as CA or a number of other products......but it is a hell of a lot faster...I can lay up a pretty damn fine shelawax finish on a pen in about 5 minutes.......not many other finishes can do that.....AND......it is far less toxic than lots of other finishes.

I still do most of my low end wooden pens in shelawax and move to CA and other finishes as the price increases.

So jrap......go get ya self some shelawax glow, and give it a try.

Sand thru the grits up to 600.....800 or further if you like then follow the instructions....High speed and lots of preasure.

Yes it is a step up from cheap polly.

No commercial connection, no vested interest.

cheers


----------



## edstreet (Sep 11, 2012)

alphageek said:


> See post #5 in this thread:  http://www.penturners.org/forum/f28/tung-oil-93366/
> 
> Hank (leehljp) has done many type of finishes and does some amazing pens and stated very well the reason why something that holds abuse on certain objects doesn't necessarily translate to other areas.



Er ok,  I did read that like you mentioned and here is what was said.


> I am not against TO or BLO, as TO is and has been my finish of choice for more than 30 years when the project would allow it. I know what you are asking and I love the TO protection and way that it brings out a beautiful piece of wood. But overall, fine furniture and most fine wood products are not handled and treated the same way that pens are.
> __________________
> Hank Lee



Ok, 

Here is what YOU said.


> The oils you listed may be great for larger objects that aren't handled much, but pens - on a lot of woods, many don't consider those finishes at all.



Now I am greatly confused, you advocate that oils are not a finish then point reference to someone who is comparing apples to oranges (furniture to pens) and labels oils as a finish.

I suppose this would negate someone having to epeen about the 20+ coats of CA they used on a pen.

I also have to ask why are we comparing POLISH to FINISH?


----------



## Nick (Sep 11, 2012)

We make pens and other turned items for the enjoyment and any profit we can to support our craft. I for one don't give a bum about all the hype, 20% of this material and all the other chemical make up of finishes. We use what works for us. Some oof the finishing materials I use, contain "water" and I never had a grain raising problem, ever. Friends and customers have never complained about the end product.
The bottom line, do what works best for you and forget about all chemical hype of the various finishes and enjoy your turning
Happy Turning
Cheers


----------



## alphageek (Sep 11, 2012)

Ed... I never said that oils are not a finish.  I said many do not consider it a finish FOR PENS.  

That exactly what Hank said above too... "But overall, fine furniture and most fine wood products are not handled and treated the same way that pens are." which is part of his explanation why oils are not a finish FOR PENS.


----------



## jrap (Sep 12, 2012)

i did make a pen using shellawax and it turned out great. Take a look! it does shine like glass. The picture doesnt do it justice


----------



## soundman (Sep 12, 2012)

Power to ya jrap.

Did you get some "glow" or did you make the cream work.


As for the others.....there as many ways of finishing a pen as can be imagined.

Oil's aint oil's, Sol......( did you get that add in the US)

Some oils and some methods are going to do bugger all ( sorry can I say that on a US forum) as a durable finish, people may be able to make other oils work very well.

A bloke was posting on our local forum that his old dad told him about stabalising timber for  knife handles and dip pens by soaking in tung oil, it made the timber hard as' and it would take a fabulous gloss. ...this must have been in the 50's...I went to shool in the 60's and there where no ink wells on the desks then......but you could see where they had been.

Its not what ya got but how ya use it.

cheers


----------



## jrap (Sep 13, 2012)

i got the cream and i like how it turns out


----------



## PenMan1 (Sep 13, 2012)

You may want to give General Wood Finishes product "Wood Turner's Finish" a try. It is RELATIVELY inexpensive, and IMHO, it is a more durable finish the Shellawax. You can build the coats for maximum protection, but still "feel" the wood grain underneath.

Be advised that WTF or any other friction polish that I have used, to date, DOES NOT provide the protection of CA or Plexiglass, but WTF is simple to apply and seems to outlast many of the other friction polishes.

Respectfully submitted.


----------



## soundman (Sep 13, 2012)

I used cream on some of my very early pens.......you will get it to turn out, but the liquid (particularly the glow) is better to work with on small diameter items.

I seem to remember the glow has more resin in it than the standard product and will go off a little harder.

cheers


----------



## raar25 (Sep 14, 2012)

I have found all shellac products with wax only hold their shine for a day of constant use.  The wood is still sealed and the finish is still there but the gloss has turned to matt.  Wood turners finish works well for me, as does CA and laquer.  Even for quick turn pens I wipe on laquer right on the lathe.  The finish takes 5-10 minutes and gives a nice soft sheen which lasts nicely.


----------



## GaryMGg (Sep 14, 2012)

jrap said:


> i did make a pen using shellawax and it turned out great. Take a look! it does shine like glass. The picture doesnt do it justice


 

Jacob,

The pen does look great. Looks like bloodwood to me.

Having said that, the question is "Does Shellawax last?"

You have a new pen; it ought to shine.
I'd be interested to here you report back how it shines after 30-60-90 days of handling.
Please do if you're so inclined.

Thank you.


----------



## Smitty37 (Sep 14, 2012)

*Shellawax....*

I think the Shella in shellawax stands for shellac - now shellac has been used as a wood finish on many things for about 300 or so years...

I use shellawax in both liquid and cream forms and I think it works well...you need to apply several thin coats but you can get a high long lasting shine on wood...it is, in my opinion, a better looking finish on wood than CA which does not look natural at all

Shellac is a natural product and it is non-toxic when disolved in denatured alchohol...


----------



## Wildman (Sep 14, 2012)

Most recent MSDS for product could find.

http://www.rockler.com/tech/RTD20000376AA.pdf
http://www.carbatec.com.au/pdf/manual/MSDS-Shellawax-Cream.pdf

Not impressed with ingredients listed and price for small jar of the stuff. Yes, pretty sure can finish a lot of pens with just one jar. 

Most friction finishing materials made up of petroleum products, solvent thinner, dryers, and who knows what kind of wax. 

While many provide shinny sheen off the lathe, sheen fade back or matte finish not un-common. Depending upon what looking for might be okay. If like natural look of wood very durable

Agree GF Woodturners finish better less expensive op.

http://www.generalfinishes.com/site...downloads/MSDS-Wood-Turners-Finish-071711.pdf

Or even easier and less expensive Mahoney Walnut Wax finish. Many turning vendors carry the stuff too. 

Woodturning Finishes for Bowls and Platters - Walnut Oil and Wax Finishes

There is another walnut oil vendor on-line folks here have been using, maybe someone could post a link.


----------



## soundman (Sep 17, 2012)

Sorry to be a pain but how many of you fellas have actually tried Shellawax, further how many of you have followed the instructions and learned how to use it well.

As I said..I know the bloke who makes it...hell half the woodturners in Australia would recognise Neil if we saw him in the street.....he can probably call a couple of hundred of us by either our first names or our on line handles.....

It is a deliberatley simple product manufacturerd for turners by a turner.

As I said before it is a blend of shelac, waxes and other stuff....neil is not telling exatly what and what proportions. Less people know the formular for shellawax than know the recipe for Coca Cola...you can bet on that.

BUT it works very well if you apply it correctly......if its going dull after a day you did not apply it properly, most likely you did not sand to a fine enough gritt or you failed to achieve enough heat during application.

Besides, not everybody wants a glassy finish.....which by the way shellawax will do if you want it.
Fair enough it want be as hard a durable as CA.....but it will happen a hell of a lot faster and some will say it looks more natural.

cheers


----------



## KenV (Sep 17, 2012)

Joseph, 

I have that product as well as others in my finishing kit.  I use it a fair bit, but  my exprience with it has not been good for durability.  It gives a wonderful "sales table shine".

I use it to great effect on ornaments and other turnings that do not get handled much.

And yes I use a fair amount of shellac, and yes can do french polishing.

Good product for 24 k gold slimmies, but not the best for durable finish on wood


----------



## Katya (Sep 17, 2012)

I just finished my first pen with it and will be using it as my daily carry to test out the durability that others have seen.

I'd be very interested to hear how this works out for you.. could you please post results when you have them?
Many thanks
Catherine


----------



## jrap (Sep 17, 2012)

I will post results as i get them. I am also trying pen turners finish from general finishes courtesy of ed from exotic blanks


----------



## soundman (Sep 17, 2012)

KenV said:


> Joseph,
> 
> I have that product as well as others in my finishing kit.  I use it a fair bit, but  my exprience with it has not been good for durability.  It gives a wonderful "sales table shine".
> 
> ...



Now the question is, are you using the cream or the liquid?

and

Is the "Glow" version of shelawax liquid available over there? I believe it my not be.

It is a mistake to view shelawax like you would any wax or shelac product on their own.

cheers


----------



## KenV (Sep 17, 2012)

Joseph,

The products I can get are the "liquid friction polish" and the "creme".   Shipping restrictions to Alaska make  Rockler in Seattle my source and they have these two.

"Glow" is not visible on the bottle.


----------



## soundman (Sep 18, 2012)

Yeh I don't think GLOW is available for export......I think it must have more solvent in it or something and that pushes it over the edge as far as dangerous goods is concerned.

Seems Neil is now making his shelawax on his hard shelac, which should make it more durable than the old formular..I don't know for how long he has been using the hard shelac.

So you will have normal shelawax cream and liquid.

cheers


----------

