# USPS thieves can easily rob you.



## TurtleTom (Oct 17, 2015)

I tried to find the thread that someone up in Detroit had some blanks go missing from a USPS shipment. I couldn't find the thread but I guess everyone should know this.  I didn't.
I just received a slightly heavy order in a USPS small flat rate box.  Somewhere along the way something heavy was dropped/thrown onto the box and the sides split out.  I noticed then that the sides didn't even have to split out to get inside, all you have to do is pull the little flap up on the side and the entire side will fold out.  It doesn't lock like I thought it did.  Poor design!  
  I have always done my shipping at the Post Office because I'm not sure what size box I need.  So now my clear packing tape goes with me and I wrap that sucker up.  Maybe if they have to use a knife they'll pick on an easy one.  :tongue:


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## low_48 (Oct 17, 2015)

With the volume of packages that go through a sorting facility, I'd say it is very unlikely that someone decides to take out a couple blanks. A more likely situation is those blanks are sitting under some conveyor somewhere after they fell out. Expecting a single layer of cardboard to hold a "slightly heavy" order may be partially to blame. Packages going through sorters aren't lightly handled. They will get beat up.


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## ed4copies (Oct 17, 2015)

We receive many boxes with pen blanks.  Often in medium flat rate boxes.

We have learned, tape all the corners, and tape the flat sides as well.  That cardboard was never designed to hold 20#.  Then they tell you to fill up to 70#----BULL!!!

We now have some nice fiberglass based tape.  For large flat rate, we completely encase the box in this tape.  A little pricey, but they don't "break"!!!

FWIW


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## Jim Smith (Oct 17, 2015)

I'm afraid that I'm with Low 48 and Ed on this one.  During my career, I spent some time where we handled both US mail and lots of cargo.  Pretty much everything is just another box.  When "over-heavy" boxes get onto a sort system where every roller pounds the box just a little, it only takes a couple of trips around the system to cause seams to split.  If the cardboard is wet or ever was wet, then it splits/rips much easier.  One of my jobs as low man on the totem pole was to clean out under the sort system every month or so.  There was ALWAYS tons to loose pieces under the system.  Screws, bolts, machine parts etc. etc. etc.; just stuff that slipped out of a tear in the box.  Is there a possibility of employees stealing stuff, sure.  Is it likely that they would open a box to see what's in it to steal, very unlikely unless a dishonest employee and the box obviously contains high value items like electronics, watches, jewelry, coins etc.  Just my two cents worth.

Jim Smith


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## KenV (Oct 17, 2015)

Bill Bomback of AZ Sil  when he had it in Yuma was the packer of merit --   Had boxes that were in the condition of a paper bag for rigidity arrive without loss  -- Tape and glue won.   Bill glued cardboard across the bottom and engulfed the package in Tape.  

I am convinced there is a gorilla in the sorting facility in Kent Washington who spindles and mutilates boxes of turning supplies.  

Never any loss out of a package from Bill --   Now having the box delivered to the wrong address was a different story, but I live in a cooperative neighborhood.


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## CREID (Oct 17, 2015)

KenV said:


> Bill Bomback of AZ Sil  when he had it in Yuma was the packer of merit --   Had boxes that were in the condition of a paper bag for rigidity arrive without loss  -- Tape and glue won.   Bill glued cardboard across the bottom and engulfed the package in Tape.
> 
> I am convinced there is a gorilla in the sorting facility in Kent Washington who spindles and mutilates boxes of turning supplies.
> 
> Never any loss out of a package from Bill --   Now having the box delivered to the wrong address was a different story, but I live in a cooperative neighborhood.



It's funny you should mention Kent, Washington. I used to live there and for years my mail was sent back undeliverable. I lived within a stones throw of the post office. They always blamed it on the sorting facility.

Curt


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## dogcatcher (Oct 17, 2015)

You lost those pen blanks because of POOR PACKING, the sender was at fault.  From the time the package was mailed it was mostly sorted by the bar code and done mechanically.  Machines cannot read fragile or handle with care, they move along conveyor belts, drop into hampers and move to the next sorting facility.  There they are mechanically dumped and sorted again.   This can happens 3 or 4 times, they get thrown, dumped and finally delivered, if the sender packs it right, it makes it one piece.  

I receive 1000's of packages a year, some are packed like they know the post office.  Some pack them like they were being delivered next door and the shipper sometimes gets to ship again or refund my money.   It is the SHIPPERS RESPONSIBILITY TO PACK IT CORRECTLY, not the post offices job to handle it like it like it was a carton of eggs.  Now I simply refuse packages that come to me in poor shape, never open them.


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## ed4copies (Oct 17, 2015)

While I agree packing can reinforce the package,
why would USPS ISSUE BOXES that are not suited to move the goods they advertise??

If their motto is, if it fits, it ships and the weight is 70# limit, why will the box split at 20 pounds???

Yes, those who ship a lot KNOW this is not accurate, but the "casual user" should be able to rely on the post office (experts) to give reliable information.

Certainly SHARED responsibility for breakage!!


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## Skie_M (Oct 17, 2015)

CREID said:


> KenV said:
> 
> 
> > Bill Bomback of AZ Sil  when he had it in Yuma was the packer of merit --   Had boxes that were in the condition of a paper bag for rigidity arrive without loss  -- Tape and glue won.   Bill glued cardboard across the bottom and engulfed the package in Tape.
> ...



They lied.  The one person responsible for updating your address as deliverable or not is your local carrier and nobody else.  If the local postmaster can't get your carrier to fix the problem, kick it upstairs to the district manager.


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## Smitty37 (Oct 17, 2015)

Skie_M said:


> CREID said:
> 
> 
> > KenV said:
> ...


On a related note.  I recently had a package 'returned to sender' marked as undeliverable. Problem, it went to the wrong sort facility and that facility returned it to sender rather than sending it on the the Sort facility...further they showed it as out for delivery while it was sitting a couple of hundred miles from the address.


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## Smitty37 (Oct 17, 2015)

dogcatcher said:


> You lost those pen blanks because of POOR PACKING, the sender was at fault.  From the time the package was mailed it was mostly sorted by the bar code and done mechanically.  Machines cannot read fragile or handle with care, they move along conveyor belts, drop into hampers and move to the next sorting facility.  There they are mechanically dumped and sorted again.   This can happens 3 or 4 times, they get thrown, dumped and finally delivered, if the sender packs it right, it makes it one piece.
> 
> I receive 1000's of packages a year, some are packed like they know the post office.  Some pack them like they were being delivered next door and the shipper sometimes gets to ship again or refund my money.   It is the SHIPPERS RESPONSIBILITY TO PACK IT CORRECTLY, not the post offices job to handle it like it like it was a carton of eggs.  Now I simply refuse packages that come to me in poor shape, never open them.


It is the Post Office, not the shipper who says they can put 70 pounds in a flat rate box.  If the box isn't strong enough  for that (and it isn't) they shouldn't promise that they can handle it.  It is also the responsibility of the Carrier to use resonable care in handling the packages.


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## Smitty37 (Oct 17, 2015)

ed4copies said:


> We receive many boxes with pen blanks.  Often in medium flat rate boxes.
> 
> We have learned, tape all the corners, and tape the flat sides as well.  That cardboard was never designed to hold 20#.  Then they tell you to fill up to 70#----BULL!!!
> 
> ...


 And I can vouch for that...that tape is hard to cut with a knife and might break if it got run over by a M1A1/2 Abrams Battle Tank....


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## CREID (Oct 17, 2015)

Skie_M said:


> CREID said:
> 
> 
> > KenV said:
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It went to the district manager, what the problem was, someone had the same number address on 109th and I lived on108th, we had different mail carriers and my mail went on the other truck. However it still shouldn't have been marked undeliverable and no such address. To solve the problem the sorting facility and the post office itself had signs up with my address on the walls and anything with my address had to be taken to a supervisor.

Curt


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## Smitty37 (Oct 17, 2015)

I think the worst beating any of my packages get is those shipped from mainland China via DHL,  They sometimes arrive in condition that really makes you wonder - Yet as bad as they look I've never but once had any missing or damaged items.  The packages from Dayacom regardless of who the carrier is are the best boxes...really heavy cardboard and taped and strapped.


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## edstreet (Oct 17, 2015)

Those who do ship a VARIETY of boxes, i.e. read packing / shipping services does indeed know.  i.e. UPS store.

You can easily use your own box (also still get the small flat rate box pricing to BTW) also you can use a box with a higher ECT and BST rating for the heavier weight items.

In case some of you are unaware of what ECT and BST is I did some google-fu for you.



> Edge Crush Test (ECT) – This measure determines how well a box will hold up during stacking. Measured in pounds per square inch (psi), a higher rating indicates a sturdier the box.
> 
> Burst Strength Test (BST) – Also known as the Mullen Test, this measure indicates how much weight a box can hold without failing.
> 
> These ratings can be found stamped on one of the bottom flaps of corrugated cardboard boxes in the Box Manufacturer’s Certificate. Higher numbers indicate sturdier boxes.




However when the postal system box is treated badly during shipping, as denoted in the image below (as it came to me from a nameless pen vendor) then no amount of cardboard is going to save the goods inside. 







BTW above box was submerged in liquid for a weekend and no the vendor was not notified of the snafu.


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## jttheclockman (Oct 17, 2015)

I have told this story a few times before here but will mention it again. All delivery outlets run into the same problems and customer frustrations. I worked a few years ago at the largest FedX facility in NJ. We installed new conveyors and also did a huge solar array system on their roof. While working there I witnessed many times the abuse packages take due to conveyor malfunctions or overloads. I have seen packages fall off the lines and just lay on the floor for who knows how long. I witnessd packages being loaded on trucks fall off conveyors and land on the ground outside the truck and lay in the rain and or snow for days. Then one wonders why a package is lost or damaged. Just visit one of those facilities for 1 day and you will quickly realize why. It is amazing that the majority of packages do make it to the destination. Christmas time is the worst for abuse. Those places are about time and volume. 

Packing a package to be able to withstand some abuse is the first line of defense.


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## dogcatcher (Oct 17, 2015)

Smitty37 said:


> dogcatcher said:
> 
> 
> > You lost those pen blanks because of POOR PACKING, the sender was at fault.  From the time the package was mailed it was mostly sorted by the bar code and done mechanically.  Machines cannot read fragile or handle with care, they move along conveyor belts, drop into hampers and move to the next sorting facility.  There they are mechanically dumped and sorted again.   This can happens 3 or 4 times, they get thrown, dumped and finally delivered, if the sender packs it right, it makes it one piece.
> ...



Properly packed the box will survive the 70 pounds.  I get steel and aluminum shipments all of the time, they KNOW how to pack it, and the USPS box arrives in good condition.  I say again, it up to the shipper to KNOW how to pack the packages CORRECTLY.


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## edstreet (Oct 17, 2015)

Dogcatcher indeed correct. The flat rate boxes can handle that weight if the item is packed properly. That is up to the shipper to do however.  

I have received a number of boxes for knife steel, properly packed mind you. Most have been in the 40-50 pound range.


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## Smitty37 (Oct 18, 2015)

dogcatcher said:


> Smitty37 said:
> 
> 
> > dogcatcher said:
> ...


 I have received some heavy boxes that would probably have withstood being dropped from 10 feet....I have not received a lot of flat rate boxes no matter how pack that would have withstood having that heavy box land on its corner on them without damage to the contents. Which might very well be what happened to the box Ed pictured.  BTW what is a properly packaged box?


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## Smitty37 (Oct 18, 2015)

edstreet said:


> Dogcatcher indeed correct. The flat rate boxes can handle that weight if the item is packed properly. That is up to the shipper to do however.
> 
> I have received a number of boxes for knife steel, properly packed mind you. Most have been in the 40-50 pound range.


 Steel is pretty tough stuff...isn't the concern when shipping something like steel keeping the box from being damaged from the inside....Heavy cardboard on any sharp corners inside the box and a really tight fit in the box?


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## edstreet (Oct 18, 2015)

Smitty37 said:


> Steel is pretty tough stuff...isn't the concern when shipping something like steel keeping the box from being damaged from the inside....Heavy cardboard on any sharp corners inside the box and a really tight fit in the box?



Sorry no gumdrops here.  


Go back and re-read the quote I gave for ECT and BST.  Also understand what those two mean then try again.


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## Smitty37 (Oct 18, 2015)

edstreet said:


> Smitty37 said:
> 
> 
> > Steel is pretty tough stuff...isn't the concern when shipping something like steel keeping the box from being damaged from the inside....Heavy cardboard on any sharp corners inside the box and a really tight fit in the box?
> ...


 I took your word for what ECT ans BST mean Ed.  Gumdrop packages crush pretty easily but gumdrops don't have sharp edges so they seldom break from the inside.  But what do gumdrops have to do with steel packed in cardboard?


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## Kragax (Oct 18, 2015)

jttheclockman said:


> Just visit one of those facilities for 1 day and you will quickly realize why. It is amazing that the majority of packages do make it to the destination.st for abuse. Those places are about time and volume.
> 
> .



I was working as a purchasing agent for a small company at one time and sometimes had to go to UPS to pick up something that the maintenance guys needed ASAP.( our delivery guy came in the late afternoon) I watched those folks handle packages. They didn't seem to be overly rough with them, but nobody had the time or was alone enough to steal anything.


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## TurtleTom (Oct 18, 2015)

jttheclockman said:


> I have told this story a few times before here but will mention it again. All delivery outlets run into the same problems and customer frustrations. I worked a few years ago at the largest FedX facility in NJ. We installed new conveyors and also did a huge solar array system on their roof. While working there I witnessed many times the abuse packages take due to conveyor malfunctions or overloads. I have seen packages fall off the lines and just lay on the floor for who knows how long. I witnessd packages being loaded on trucks fall off conveyors and land on the ground outside the truck and lay in the rain and or snow for days. Then one wonders why a package is lost or damaged. Just visit one of those facilities for 1 day and you will quickly realize why. It is amazing that the majority of packages do make it to the destination. Christmas time is the worst for abuse. Those places are about time and volume.
> 
> Packing a package to be able to withstand some abuse is the first line of defense.



   This is the one that bothers me the most.  Good supervisors are supposed to prevent this sort of thing.  It also tell me the Plant Manager isn't doing his job because he should do a complete walk around the plant at least once a day to look for things like this to clue him as to his plant effectiveness.  
   I sure wish I could e-mail this to the CEO of FedEx with some hope of getting past 35 VPs and 47 secretaries.  
   This is the sort of information that can bust a company and put the CEO's children on welfare, they just don't know it and don't care.  
   One day golf, next day:  "What happened?  Everything was perfect."  It pretty much happened to the Post Office, else why would there even be a Fed Ex and UPS if the grass roots in this country had not deserted them?
   Fed Ex, UPS, don't look now but you need us little folk.


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## dogcatcher (Oct 18, 2015)

Smitty37 said:


> edstreet said:
> 
> 
> > Smitty37 said:
> ...



It is not UPS or USPS"s fault that you do not know how to properly pack your packages.  I would suggest volunteering a few days at a Pack n Mail type business.  They will teach you.


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## ed4copies (Oct 18, 2015)

If one needs packing lessons, the USPS should change their "advertising tag line":

"If it fits, it ships (if you are adept at packaging the products you wish to ship and can reinforce the boxes we compel you to use to achieve this advertised "flat rate" cost)!!"

"If the above does NOT apply to you, plan on losing a percentage of your items.  That percentage will vary depending on how many of our sort facilities handle your package."

To me, that loses some of it's appeal, but it IS more accurate.


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## oneleggimp (Oct 18, 2015)

Kragax said:


> I was working as a purchasing agent for a small company at one time and sometimes had to go to UPS to pick up something that the maintenance guys needed ASAP.( our delivery guy came in the late afternoon) I watched those folks handle packages. They didn't seem to be overly rough with them, but nobody had the time or was alone enough to steal anything.


Big Difference between UPS (United Parcel Service) and USPS (United States Postal Service).  UPS runs pretty good.  USPS not so.  Just got a package Friday handled by USPS.  Had a hole in the side big enough to put my hand through.  Merchandise was wrapped in bubble wrap and survived but USPS STiNKS ON ICE.


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## oneleggimp (Oct 18, 2015)

Smitty37 said:


> It is the Post Office, not the shipper who says they can put 70 pounds in a flat rate box.  If the box isn't strong enough  for that (and it isn't) they shouldn't promise that they can handle it.  It is also the responsibility of the Carrier to use resonable care in handling the packages.


"the carrier should use reasonable care to prevent damage".  My carrier stands at the bottom of my porch stairs and throws the package over the porch rail.  No concern for any
"Fragile" stickers.  Have had lots of items damaged.  Calls and face-to-face discussions with the station "Manager" were fruitless.  He refused to even discuss the matter with the carier. Complete Moron.


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## dogcatcher (Oct 18, 2015)

ed4copies said:


> If one needs packing lessons, the USPS should change their "advertising tag line":
> 
> "If it fits, it ships (if you are adept at packaging the products you wish to ship and can reinforce the boxes we compel you to use to achieve this advertised "flat rate" cost)!!"
> 
> ...



The USPS and the UPS moves millions of packages everyday a lot of them in the UPS and USPS provided cardboard boxes, very few get damaged.  Most of those will the packages that are IMPROPERLY packed.   The box is only the container, the inside is the shippers responsibility to fill it properly.   If not, then why does the majority not complain, only those that do not pack properly get complaints.


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## MrWright (Oct 18, 2015)

A saving to be had.  Take a small flat USPO box, tape it good, put it in a larger paper USPO envelope (yes it will fit) and you save a dime on the shipping, and a little more protection.


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## Smitty37 (Oct 18, 2015)

dogcatcher said:


> Smitty37 said:
> 
> 
> > edstreet said:
> ...


 And just where did you come by that information?


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## PR_Princess (Oct 18, 2015)

KenV said:


> Bill Bomback of AZ Sil  when he had it in Yuma was the packer of merit --   Had boxes that were in the condition of a paper bag for rigidity arrive without loss  -- Tape and glue won.   Bill glued cardboard across the bottom and engulfed the package in Tape.



LOL Ken, I remember that.  IIRC he also hot glued the top flaps before taping. You needed a TEAM of gorillas to open one of his boxes! (Obscure reference to a 1980's American Tourister ad)


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## Smitty37 (Oct 18, 2015)

dogcatcher said:


> ed4copies said:
> 
> 
> > If one needs packing lessons, the USPS should change their "advertising tag line":
> ...


 *How do you know that? *Majority of whom do not complain? How do you know that?


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## Smitty37 (Oct 18, 2015)

dogcatcher said:


> You lost those pen blanks because of POOR PACKING, the sender was at fault.  From the time the package was mailed it was mostly sorted by the bar code and done mechanically.  *Machines cannot read fragile or handle with care*, they move along conveyor belts, drop into hampers and move to the next sorting facility.  There they are mechanically dumped and sorted again.   This can happens 3 or 4 times, they get thrown, dumped and finally delivered, if the sender packs it right, it makes it one piece.
> 
> I receive 1000's of packages a year, some are packed like they know the post office.  Some pack them like they were being delivered next door and the shipper sometimes gets to ship again or refund my money.   It is the SHIPPERS RESPONSIBILITY TO PACK IT CORRECTLY, not the post offices job to handle it like it like it was a carton of eggs.  Now I simply refuse packages that come to me in poor shape, never open them.


From the USPS web site...
                 Fragile Items                                                       Collapse                 FAQ question                              

                              Ordinary items that are breakable or fragile do not  need special handling if they are packed with the right cushioning and  *marked clearly with the word, “FRAGILE.”*  You may add Registered Mail™  to your delivery to further protect valuable or irreplaceable items.


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## PR_Princess (Oct 18, 2015)

Not sure if this will help some?..

But here is the USPS's published "A Customer's Guide to Mailing", dated May 2015. They do have a section advising customers on packaging and cushioning....

http://pe.usps.com/cpim/ftp/manuals/dmm100/dmm100.pdf



And before you can think that you can use a different, heavier box for USPS flat rate...no, by USPS regulation that is not allowed. The same also holds true for regional rate.


* "1.5.2    Flat Rate Boxes—Price Eligibility *

*Only* USPS-produced Flat Rate Boxes are eligible for the Flat Rate Box prices." <snip>

*"1.6.1    Price and Eligibility  *

Regional Rate Box prices are available to Priority Mail customers who *use **USPS-produced Priority Mail Regional Rate Boxes*."


Red emphasis added, full text available here - 
DMM 123 Priority Mail Prices and Eligibility for Retail Letters, Flat



You can use pretty much any box (within certain limits) for the Priority Mail by weight, however.


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## Skie_M (Oct 18, 2015)

Bah ... Edstreet and Smitty are fighting again, no news there .... dogcatcher got caught in the middle.


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## dogcatcher (Oct 18, 2015)

Smitty37 said:


> From the USPS web site...
> Fragile Items                                                       Collapse                 FAQ question
> 
> Ordinary items that are breakable or fragile do not  need special handling if they are packed with the right cushioning and  *marked clearly with the word, “FRAGILE.”*  You may add Registered Mail™  to your delivery to further protect valuable or irreplaceable items.



Wow, *if they are packed with the right cushioning*, problem solved by the USPS.  See I told you, proper packing would eliminate the problem.   Over 40 years in business, we have received and shipped thousands of packages, those that were damaged were 99.9 percent poorly packed.  Properly packed you can send a dozen eggs to anywhere an they will arrive whole, maybe rotten, but still whole.


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## dogcatcher (Oct 18, 2015)

PR_Princess said:


> Not sure if this will help some?..
> 
> But here is the USPS's published "A Customer's Guide to Mailing", dated May 2015. They do have a section advising customers on packaging and cushioning....
> 
> ...


I get steel shipments that are inside of another box within the flat rate boxes, they are packed so tight that there s no movement in the inside box or the flat rate box.  Some of these boxes weight close to the 70 pound limits.   But then I got one with a piece of Damascus steel a week ago, that the sender stuck it in the box with no packing, the box can flattened but at least the steel was in one piece, 2 shippers, one correctly packed and another used NO COMMON SENSE.


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## Smitty37 (Oct 18, 2015)

Skie_M said:


> Bah ... Edstreet and Smitty are fighting again, no news there .... dogcatcher got caught in the middle.


 No fiighting  he made a statement, I did not question what he said, I asked a related question.


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## Smitty37 (Oct 18, 2015)

dogcatcher said:


> Smitty37 said:
> 
> 
> > From the USPS web site...
> ...


 I guess you missed the part about "clearly marked with the word Fragile"  such word that YOU said they don't look for....


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## dogcatcher (Oct 18, 2015)

Smitty37 said:


> I guess you missed the part about "clearly marked with the word Fragile"  such word that YOU said they don't look for....



Spend a day at the post office and UPS, you will realize the people handling the package will see the fragile markings.  But once it gets on the on a conveyor and the barcode reader sees it, all that is seen is the barcode.  The machines don't read, if you want personal hand to hand service, it is available, it is called Registered Mail.  But even then sometimes the machines reads and moves the package.  

*It still boils down to who packed it and if they know how to pack it properly. *


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## Brian G (Oct 18, 2015)

PR_Princess said:


> LOL Ken, I remember that.  IIRC he also hot glued the top flaps before taping. You needed a TEAM of gorillas to open one of his boxes! *(Obscure reference to a 1980's American Tourister ad)*



[yt]749iU2Zv1kw[/yt]

He earned a promotion to Postmaster General in the 90s. :biggrin:

When I send stuff, I use more tape and packing protection than is necessary.  It's inexpensive.  Even with opposable thumbs, it's gonna take a smart gorrila with a boxcutter to break into my packages.


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## edstreet (Oct 18, 2015)

Just goes to show, yet again, there is no intelligent conversation to be had here.


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## Brian G (Oct 18, 2015)

Don't be so hard on yourself.  You were making progress.


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## Smitty37 (Oct 18, 2015)

dogcatcher said:


> Smitty37 said:
> 
> 
> > I guess you missed the part about "clearly marked with the word Fragile"  such word that YOU said they don't look for....
> ...


Whatever makes you think I have never seen how packages are handled at the post office?  

With very few exceptions, like airplane crashes and highways collapsing under trucks, if UPS or USPS or FedEx always do their job properly and never mishandle a package, every package would arrive at the receiver's door in exactly the same shape it left the senders.  Period.  

If a package falls off a conveyor, that is the carrier's fault - not the sender's.  If a package marked "fragile" is sent through a conveyor that is the carrier's fault not the sender's.  If a package gets dropped on the floor and run over by a forklift in the sort facility that is the carrier's fault not the senders.  

I am a small business but I have been shipping about 1200 packages a year since 2003.  In that time I can count on one hand the number of packages where the contents were damaged but have had hundreds of reports where the package was damaged. and a couple where it was not delivered.  I had one mailed to NYC and delivered to someone in Portland Oregon.  I also self insure so if the goods I send are damaged in transit it is my loss. Quite frankly I take umbrage at the suggestion that I don't know how to pack the items I ship.  

BTW I'd be interested in knowing how many packages a year you ship?  You said you receive a lot but didn't mention how many you send.


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## Smitty37 (Oct 18, 2015)

edstreet said:


> Just goes to show, yet again, there is no intelligent conversation to be had here.


If you would stop taking offense every time someone asks you a question it would help.


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## edstreet (Oct 18, 2015)

Smitty37 said:


> If you would stop taking offense every time someone asks you a question it would help.



No offense taken. I just really don't care to answer any of your questions. If you look you will clearly see I purposely refuse to answer questions you ask because I really don't care, if you are seeking attention then look elsewhere. It's just not worth my time.  There is a very clear reason why I have never ordered from you and never plan on it. Also I am not alone in either.  Sorry.


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## oneleggimp (Oct 18, 2015)

edstreet said:


> Just goes to show, yet again, there is no intelligent conversation to be had here.



Ed,

It seems that you are tarring everyone on this thread with the same brush. It seems from looking further down the thread that you have some issues with Smity but your remark seems directed at all.   I personally don't like being called not intelligent when in fact I am intelligent.  My views may not be yours but that does not make them unintelligent.  It just makes them different than yours. Your Meme says "Agree or Be Wrong".  I disagree with that and am NOT WRONG.  We deserve better.


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## Smitty37 (Oct 18, 2015)

edstreet said:


> Smitty37 said:
> 
> 
> > If you would stop taking offense every time someone asks you a question it would help.
> ...


 edited out: I should not have replied.


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## edstreet (Oct 19, 2015)

oneleggimp said:


> Ed,  It seems that you are tarring everyone on this thread with the same brush. It seems from looking further down the thread that you have some issues with Smity but your remark seems directed at all.   I personally don't like being called not intelligent when in fact I am intelligent.  My views may not be yours but that does not make them unintelligent.  It just makes them different than yours. Your Meme says "Agree or Be Wrong".  I disagree with that and am NOT WRONG.  We deserve better.



This very statement is what I was trying to show. If you look a good chunk of the previous postings you will see endless mindless banter among several people whom just does not understand the other sides view point.  With a good intelligent flow of beneficial replies will be progressive and fulfilling.  No, what we have here is the same old passing the buck, avoiding responsibility and passing blame onto others.  Smoke and mirror CYA is not what I would call intelligent by no means, defensive yes.  Some will likely argue it's intelligent defense but the truth of the matter is its still smoke and mirrors.  


Oh and one more thing.   Has the OP mentioned the company is package originated from?


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## Smitty37 (Oct 19, 2015)

edstreet said:


> Smitty37 said:
> 
> 
> > Steel is pretty tough stuff...isn't the concern when shipping something like steel keeping the box from being damaged from the inside....Heavy cardboard on any sharp corners inside the box and a really tight fit in the box?
> ...


Where do you find those numbers on the flat rate boxes we are discussing Ed?  Since you have said you will choose to not answer my questions I'll answer it for you....you don't.


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## TurtleTom (Oct 19, 2015)

The bottom line?  UPS and FedEx employees can get fired if they screw up.
USPS employees can't.  
Now which is going to care more about job performance?
(IMHO):biggrin:


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## low_48 (Oct 19, 2015)

TurtleTom said:


> The bottom line?  UPS and FedEx employees can get fired if they screw up.
> USPS employees can't.
> Now which is going to care more about job performance?
> (IMHO):biggrin:



You seem to have a real hatred for USPS employees! First you call them thieves, now implying they are uncaring and unlikely fit for employment. Those must have been some precious blanks you lost!


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## oneleggimp (Oct 19, 2015)

Low_48  Many USPS employees  ARE indeed unfit for the jobs they hold - at least those in the Detroit area. Lazy uncaring, incompetent.  Some, I suspect are illiterate since they can't seem to  distinguish between a street beginning with "W" and one beginning with "M".  I get stuff addressed to the other street and they get mine - sadly all too often.  I have already mentioned that carriers stand at the bottom of my porch stairs (six steps) and toss my packages over the porch rail.  I've had packages damaged by this "tender" delivery technique.  They do the same to neighbors on my block so it's just not me. We all get our packages delivered by "air mail". I don't hate them - I just think they don't deserve the high paying jobs they hold with USPS.  The postal Union has created a monster.   BTW I am NOT anti-Union.  I am, in fact, a Union Steward, where I work.


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## Sabaharr (Oct 19, 2015)

I quite often ship custom blended lead alloys for serious bullet casters. I do this in the form of one pound ingots. 25 will fit in a SFRB. That's a solid 25 pounds of lead in a little thin box. I have 4 inch wide heavy duty clear packing tape that I wrap the entire box in around all 3 axis then do it again in the same order so I have 6 cross lapping layers of heavy duty tape around it. I ship them all over the USA and have never had one come open on me. It all depends on the care the shipper takes in the packaging. I have also had an order of 25 walnut duck call blanks shipped to me in a vinyl bag. It took 3 months to arrive from Arkansas to Louisiana by way of Minnesota (per tracking info) where it spent most of the trip in one spot. When it arrived the bag had been ripped and sloppily taped back together. It had only 16 blanks in it out of the 25. Post office not responsible since no insurance was purchased. I am beginning to think that postal insurance is like paying protection to the mob. If you don't pay you will have problems. If you do pay you have a 50/50 chance of no worries but have miles of red tape to process if you do want to make a claim.


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## maxwell_smart007 (Oct 19, 2015)

Enough vitriol and venom...

As it's not showing signs of abating, I'm closing this thread.  

Andrew 
assistant moderator


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