# To buff or not to buff?



## bgio13 (Dec 7, 2009)

I have been applying a ca/blo finish similar to how William Young applies his with the exception that I don't fold the paper towel over at the end. I apply the blo and then medium ca and rub back and forth until the finish hazes over and then continue to rub until the finish shines up. I end up with a smooth finish as William describes in his video. I know some apply a ca finish by rubbing across the blank once or twice and letting it build up and then sanding smooth. When I tried this I ended up leaving more scratches in the ca which required a lot more sanding. My question is, is sanding and buffing with MM or a wheel recommended  to bring out more of a shine, or gloss  in the finish. I know there is no right or wrong answer, just curious what others have experienced as I have only finished three pens this way. Thanks, Bill


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## rjwolfe3 (Dec 7, 2009)

I tried it last night and made mine worse. Normally I just follow his video but I wasn't happy with the final product so I tried buffing. Now it has streaks in it from the buffing.


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## dustmaker (Dec 7, 2009)

Well there is buffing and then there is buffing.  What did you buff with?  Tripoli is probably too aggressive if you have MM'd to 12000.  Even white diamond can be too aggressive if you are buffing hard.  I usually buff lightly with white diamond with the Beall buff and it seems to enhance the gloss a bit.  With the buffing wheel less is more.  Keep the RPMs below 1800 and go lightly and take notice of your progress.


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## mrcook4570 (Dec 7, 2009)

If you do not sand and buff PROPERLY, you WILL have circular rings in your finish.


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## rjwolfe3 (Dec 7, 2009)

If you follow William Young's method then there is no sanding of the CA/BLO if I remember correctly. He sands the wood and adds the finish and then hits it with a plastic polish. I wanted a little extra shine in mine so I hit it with White Diamond but I may have been to aggressive. I didn't have rings in mine but rather dull streaks that ran up and down  the blank.


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## marcruby (Dec 7, 2009)

I just use coats of plain medium CA (I don't really believe the BLO adds anything) sanding lightly in between coats to keep everything even.  Once it's built up to my satisfaction I take it up through MM 12K.  That usually produces a final finish.


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## bgio13 (Dec 7, 2009)

When I tried just ca the paper towel came off on the blank if I left it on too long. For some reason it seems the blo keeps the towel from sticking when using William's method. When I buffed I used tripoli and white diamond and even waited a day after applying the finish. I didn't have rings either just not the shine. Wonder if some Plastix would help or if this is overkill.


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## rjwolfe3 (Dec 7, 2009)

I really think it depends on the wood. I had a beautiful finish on the bottom part which was a different wood but not the top. Same method of CA/BLO on both.


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## bradh (Dec 7, 2009)

I buff my CA/BLO finish and it improves the gloss. I only buff with a very fine polish after MM to 12,000. I buff at about 3000 rpm with 6" buff wheels.
   Buffing with tripoli or white diamond is a step backwards after MM. Tripoli is similar to 900 grit paper and w-d about 1800 grit.
See this old thread:
http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=49987


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## RussFairfield (Dec 7, 2009)

If buffing or a plastic polish will improve the gloss and remove any sanding scratches, then do it. 

If you like the gloss and there are no scratches after the 12,000 Micro-Mesh, then buffing is a waste of time and may be a step backwards. 

Some folks advocate sanding to no finer than 600-grit with sandpaper and following that with buffing. If that works for them and they like the results, there is nothing wrong with their doing that.


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## marcruby (Dec 7, 2009)

I probably should have mentioned that I only rarely use a paper towel as an applicator either.  Most paper towels as well as BLO are accelerants.  I like to apply a coat with my finger, let the blank turn for a bit and then let it set naturally.

Of course, I'm never trying to make a number of pens in a row, so I just walk away from the little lathe and go into the other part of the shop and turn a bowl on the big lathe.  I tried making pens in quantity and what happened was that I got really tired of making pens.

And as Russ said, it's not what ritual you follow, but what finish you get that really counts.



bgio13 said:


> When I tried just ca the paper towel came off on the blank if I left it on too long. For some reason it seems the blo keeps the towel from sticking when using William's method. When I buffed I used tripoli and white diamond and even waited a day after applying the finish. I didn't have rings either just not the shine. Wonder if some Plastix would help or if this is overkill.


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## dustmaker (Dec 7, 2009)

Russ, I don't think I could have said it any plainer.  Well put, and I agree.


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## Bree (Dec 7, 2009)

I sand and buff but I go very easy on the Tripoli and China White unless I am trying to remove a flaw.  I also buff at a 45 degree angle so the piece forms and X against the wheels after two passes.  I go extremely light and often only use the wax buff if there is a lot of black or deep brown that will reflect back scratches.  For something like Ebony, I only do MM-12,000.

I do MM-12000 on both the blank and the finish.  I figure that the quality of the wood will show through the CA so I want the wood sanded and buffed to very high smoothness and gloss.
:wink::wink::wink:


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## tim self (Dec 7, 2009)

Regardless of what material I'm turning, I buff.  Only with the carnuba wheel and at a 45 degree angle.  I inspect with a 10x glass after and will not allow any scratches.


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## wb7whi (Dec 8, 2009)

What I have started to do...

I sand to 600 now then buff with tripoli to remove all the sanding marks. I then apply Several coats of CA sanding with 4000 between coats. The final buffing is with white diamond and carnuba.
Really need a second lathe


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## Marc Phillips (Dec 8, 2009)

Interesting reading indeed... so many ways to skin that cat!

I apply 2 coats of thin Ca, then at least 4 coats of thick CA, sanding every other coat with whatever grit I need to... usually 1500 unless I get a CA blob. 

After sanding through 1500MM, then buff with all 3 wheels. Then I put the blank between centers and buff with a very fine cloth until all the wax has stopped uhh.. visibly ... hmm... I can see the wax marks for a few seconds so I buff until they are gone.

I am going to get one of those 10X thingies so I can take a good look... I am thinking about adding a plastic polish step.


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## NewLondon88 (Dec 8, 2009)

bgio13 said:


> When I buffed I used tripoli and white diamond and even waited a day after applying the finish. I didn't have rings either just not the shine. Wonder if some Plastix would help or if this is overkill.



The PlastX is a finer grit than the white diamond, I think. Sandpaper, triploi,
micromesh, white diamond, plastic polish .. they're all doing the same thing.
They're abrasives. If you go with successively finer abrasives, you increase
the shine.

One of these days I'll make myself a list of the various products in order
from coarse to the finest so I'll know. I keep meaning to do this, because
I forget which one is finer. Do I do Brasso before white diamond? Do I use
tripoli before 1000 sandpaper or after?
It can get confusing.

If I can figure it out, I'll just start writing the equivalent grit on each
bottle or bar so I won't forget.


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