# Black and Chrome Maze pattern



## Ted Sachs (Nov 4, 2015)

I just did this one the other night right after doing a Black and Gold snowflake pattern. I had to do my Saints' colors after that awesome game Drew played Sunday. LOL  I cast a couple of blanks after getting my PR the other day only to find out that PR and epoxy don't play well together. The PR will not stick to the epoxy at all.  About two weeks worth of wrapping turns out to be just practice wraps.  I had tried a test on first and it looked great. I found out when I tried turning it that it wasn't so great.  Anyway, here's the black and chrome maze and the black and gold snowflake for y'all.

Oh, and now I"m going to try brushing some PR I'm going to mix up when I get a couple of more tubes wrapped.  I'll brush on a good coat of it and stick that in the toaster oven to see if that works. Hopefully I can get something going consistently now.


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## OKLAHOMAN (Nov 4, 2015)

Ted, you never seem to cease to amaze me not only with your talent but attitude


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## Ted Sachs (Nov 4, 2015)

Life is nothing but choices. You can choose to have a good attitude or a bad one. The bad one only makes life miserable for you and those around you. A good attitude will get you across the rough spots in life a lot easier than a bad attitude.  When someone asks me how I'm doing I always reply that I'm down to great but things will get better.


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## magpens (Nov 4, 2015)

I think that maze pattern is FABULOUS !!! .


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## Ted Sachs (Nov 4, 2015)

magpens said:


> I think that maze pattern is FABULOUS !!! .


That sucker is a hard wrap. It's so easy to lose your place in the order and a lot of it has to be wound on in a backwards motion. It only took about three or four hours to wrap it so it isn't that bad. I just need to make sure and put a check mark by each step as I do it.  I got interrupted a couple of times and when I went back I wasn't sure which step I left at.  I ended up missing a step and had to go back and undo about three steps to get the one I missed. With that pattern everything has to be done in exactly the right order or it won't come out right. Go ahead, ask me how I know. :befuddled::curse::at-wits-end:


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## Jack Parker (Nov 5, 2015)

Ted, your ability to imagine and construct these is truly amazing. Good luck with finding the answer to the casting issues that have plagued you up to this point. I'm sure you'll hit on the right combination in short order. Wish I could offer some advise, but I've got nothing


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## wob50 (Nov 5, 2015)

Great job Mr Ted still blowed away at your talent....and all-around great guy...
Doesn't hurt being a Saint's fan.....


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## jttheclockman (Nov 5, 2015)

Ted this one stands out very well. The colors are what set it off. These are not easy to do but you are making it look simple and that comes from years of experience. I would like to see something on a pen. I know you are making blanks to sell but hope you are also making a few pens for us to enjoy too. Keep up the great work and always look forward to seeing what you do next. 

Are you into doing exotic things like flags within a pattern or characters, or animals???


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## Ted Sachs (Nov 5, 2015)

jttheclockman said:


> Ted this one stands out very well. The colors are what set it off. These are not easy to do but you are making it look simple and that comes from years of experience. I would like to see something on a pen. I know you are making blanks to sell but hope you are also making a few pens for us to enjoy too. Keep up the great work and always look forward to seeing what you do next.
> 
> Are you into doing exotic things like flags within a pattern or characters, or animals???



I may have sometHing along that line after the next three I've got in line.  By the way, the black and gold and the black and chrome are on tubes for the Zen pen.


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## Indiana_Parrothead (Nov 5, 2015)

Hi Ted, your wrapped blanks look great. I seen that you stated that epoxy and PR do not mix well and you ruined some blanks. Why not cast in epoxy instead of PR. The watch parts blanks that I make are all cast in epoxy. I use the West Systems 105 resin and 207 hardener. I like the epoxy because it has a much longer pot life and doesn't smell as bad. 

I can discuss more with you if you have questions.

Mike


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## jttheclockman (Nov 5, 2015)

Indiana_Parrothead said:


> Hi Ted, your wrapped blanks look great. I seen that you stated that epoxy and PR do not mix well and you ruined some blanks. Why not cast in epoxy instead of PR. The watch parts blanks that I make are all cast in epoxy. I use the West Systems 105 resin and 207 hardener. I like the epoxy because it has a much longer pot life and doesn't smell as bad.
> 
> I can discuss more with you if you have questions.
> 
> Mike




Hello Mike

This is interesting. I assume Silmar has something that is comparable. Is it possible for you to write a tutorial of your process or at least give us some insight??? I may want to try this method. Does it have the same problems as PR with bubbles? Do you need to do this in steps? Do you need to use pressure?? I would be very much interested. Thanks in advance.


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## Indiana_Parrothead (Nov 5, 2015)

Casting with epoxy is not a lot different than casting with Alumilite. The West Systems epoxy that I use has pumps that fit the cans of the resin and hardener, so it is one "pump" of each no measuring. I mix the two parts as gentle as I can so as not to induce air into the mix. The pot life is about 25 minutes, so I have cast without pressure and had good results but since I got my pot use pressure all the time now. With such a long pot life it allows many of the bubbles to escape before the resin hardens.

The casts are hard in about 6 hours and can be demolded but I usually wait 24 hours before turning them. This epoxy has a Shore D hardness higher that PR or Alumilite but it is a lot less brittle so there is a lot less chipping and breaking when turning it. I have made hundreds of blanks like this and only had one that broke out on the lathe. I use CA glue to attach the watch parts to the blanks and the epoxy sticks to it just fine, and unless it was just a huge glob of CA you can't even see it anymore. 

The down side of epoxy is that it is about twice as expensive as PR or Alumilite, but you are still only at about $.75 per blank (for tube in). It is also very hard on the silicon molds, it seems to draw out the oils and changes the pink color to a white. Once the white happens as you start taking the blanks out of the molds pieces of the mold will start to adhere to the blank. I have started using a mold release that has extended the life of the mold. I can get about 35-40 blanks out of a mold before it is just no good anymore.

Mike


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## jttheclockman (Nov 5, 2015)

Thanks Mike. A couple other questions. As far a being clear, is it as clear as casting resin?? Does it yellow over time?? Does CA stick to it??? Thanks


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## Ted Sachs (Nov 5, 2015)

I may have to give this a try if the brushing PR idea doesn't work out.  Like John asked, how is it as far as color?


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## Indiana_Parrothead (Nov 5, 2015)

The West Systems 207 hardener is formulated to dry clear, and is just as clear as PR or Alumilite. I have watch parts blanks that I cast that are over two years old now and have not seen any yellowing. CA does stick to it, on the few occasions that I have had pin holes I used CA to file them.

There used to be a user on here that went by the name Russianwolf (Mike Shue), for several years he made and sold hundreds of blanks and only used the West Systems epoxy to cast with, there may still be a few offered on the Exotic Blanks website, under the name Mike's Opal FX and Dicho blanks.

Mike


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## Turned Around (Nov 5, 2015)

that's awesome


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## jttheclockman (Nov 5, 2015)

Indiana_Parrothead said:


> The West Systems 207 hardener is formulated to dry clear, and is just as clear as PR or Alumilite. I have watch parts blanks that I cast that are over two years old now and have not seen any yellowing. CA does stick to it, on the few occasions that I have had pin holes I used CA to file them.
> 
> There used to be a user on here that went by the name Russianwolf (Mike Shue), for several years he made and sold hundreds of blanks and only used the West Systems epoxy to cast with, there may still be a few offered on the Exotic Blanks website, under the name Mike's Opal FX and Dicho blanks.
> 
> Mike


  Well I have to say this has made my to do list. Thanks for the info.


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## OKLAHOMAN (Nov 5, 2015)

If not mistaken Michelle (Lady Cop) also uses the West System epoxy on her watch part blanks.


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## BRobbins629 (Nov 5, 2015)

jttheclockman said:


> Well I have to say this has made my to do list. Thanks for the info.



I too have used epoxy but not in a while.  It was System 3, but I found that I couldn't get quite as good a gloss as PR.  Could well have been my technique as it was early in my pen making days.

What I would really like to see though is your list John!  You always seem to have something interesting up your sleeve.


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## dthayer (Nov 5, 2015)

Is there a shelf life on the West Systems resin and/or hardener?  I'd like to play around with making some blanks and I'm looking for something that I don't need a pressure pot for (at least initially) but I won't be going through it very fast and am wondering how long until it goes bad.

Thanks!


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## Indiana_Parrothead (Nov 5, 2015)

The cans that I am using now are six months old, not sure I have had it any longer than that.

Mike


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## jttheclockman (Nov 5, 2015)

BRobbins629 said:


> jttheclockman said:
> 
> 
> > Well I have to say this has made my to do list. Thanks for the info.
> ...




Bruce

I probably will not be alive long enough to execute all my ideas in just this hobby alone. My mind is constantly working. Unfortunately I ran into some health issues this past 2 years that have kept me out of my shop and it is killing me. In that time I kept active here and collected various materials and jotted down some of the ideas I came up with. Hopefully it will be sometime next year that I can once again return to the shop and get reunited with all my friends there I am hoping I will not disappoint people with some of these things. Keep those lathes spinning.


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## Kenny Durrant (Nov 6, 2015)

Ted I love your work. I have a cousin that builds fishing rods and does he same thing you do on his rods. I had him wrap a few tubes for me and I watered down some plain white Elmers glue and soaked the thread down on the tubes before casting. It worked for me. Good luck


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## nvignola (Nov 20, 2015)

Ted
how are you making these?


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## nvignola (Nov 20, 2015)

Ted:
How are you making those?


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## nvignola (Nov 20, 2015)

Ted, how are you making these?



Ted Sachs said:


> I just did this one the other night right after doing a Black and Gold snowflake pattern. I had to do my Saints' colors after that awesome game Drew played Sunday. LOL I cast a couple of blanks after getting my PR the other day only to find out tat PR and epoxy don't play well together. The PR will not stick to the epoxy at all. About two weeks worth of wrapping turns out to be just practice wraps. I had tried a test on first and it looked great. I found out when I tried turning it that it wasn't so great. Anyway, here's the black and chrome maze and the black and gold snowflake for y'all.
> 
> Oh, and now I"m going to try brushing some PR I'm going to mix up when I get a couple of more tubes wrapped. I'll brush on a good coat of it and stick that in the toaster oven to see if that works. Hopefully I can get something going consistently now.


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## Ted Sachs (Nov 20, 2015)

nvignola said:


> Ted, how are you making these?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sorry for not getting back to you on this sooner. I'm wrapping thread around the brass tube like when doing fishing rods.  You wrap in a spiral with a set spacing and go all the way across then back at that spacing.  You then wrap on one side our the other of your first thread and on some patterns you wrap on both sides. You keep repeating this and change colors at different stages to make the pattern develop.  Once finished you put a color preserver on it then brush on a couple of coats of polyester resin letting each one dry.  This will lock the threads together and keep them from unraveling when you cut it off of the mandrel that you wrap on.  I've attached a couple of pictures of what I use to wrap these on.


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