# what is considered kit less



## cwolfs69 (Sep 18, 2011)

just wondering, because i've got some ideas i plan to attempt this fall and winter. what do you guys consider "kit less". i've done a few where i took parts from one kit, modified, parts from another kit, modified and combined with a transmission etc and put them together in a pen. not having a metal lathe, i cant make those parts myself yet and even if i had the equipment it would be silly to make some things that are better off production produced. 
how about a little guidance on what you guys call " kit less" here. i have had a couple of items i would have liked to have shown but wasn't sure how to present them.


----------



## mredburn (Sep 18, 2011)

This comes up every once in a while, there is no real definition of what is kitless or componentless. For some its not using any component that comes out of a kit you bought. Most of us that use transmissions or feed assemblies but make all the other parts consider the pens to be kitless. Some kitless pens use clips they bought rather than made. It can be pretty loosely defined as a pen you made with out using all the parts from a kit. Show them in SOYP forum or advanced pen making and call them what you will. Or don't even worry about what they are called.


----------



## its_virgil (Sep 18, 2011)

I don't understand (well, really I do) why we call these pens made with kit parts 'Kitless" pens...are they not just pens? Fountain pens, rollerball, ballpoints... By our definition of kitless, whatever that may be, then the pens made by OMAS, Mt.Blanc, Visconti, and the others are also kitless. My point is this: kitless is not a flattering word for a pen. But, I don't have a better suggestion as to what they should be called, except just pens.:biggrin:
Do a good turn daily!
Don


----------



## Smitty37 (Sep 18, 2011)

*hmmmm*

I suspect that all of the 'big name' pens have some manufactured parts that can and are used in other models.  

We have to accept that every 2 X 4 used in a custom uniquely designed, custom built home is still the same as a 2 X 4 used in a low priced mobile.  That does not change the fact that the home is custom designed and custom built, nor would anybody suggest that it is a "kit" home because it uses some standard parts.  

I do not understand why folks get all wrapped around the axle about what is or is not "kitless".  

If someone gets pleasure from being able to make all of the various parts to make a pen themselves, that's great but keep in mind - at one time ALL pens along with most everything else were made that way - one at a time by a master craftsman.  

But be humbled by this, most of them didn't work as well as the mass produced stuff that replaced them.  Also, common hard working folks couldn't afford to own them either.

All cars were made that way at one time also - and if they were still all made that way most of us wouldn't need a driver's license because we couldn't afford one.


----------



## Dalecamino (Sep 18, 2011)

Don brings up a good point. I personally am guilty of calling the pens I've made using only a clip from a kit, "kitless". That's because, since I joined the forum, I've seen the term used by others. But, that does not mean it's the correct terminology for the pens I've made. However, considering the amount of time I spend planning, designing, fabricating,finishing and, assembling, and sometimes repeating any one of these steps, I want to call it SOMETHING more than a pen. Maybe I'm being selfish:redface: And, I suppose I COULD get used to calling it a pen.:biggrin:


----------



## Texatdurango (Sep 18, 2011)

cwolfs69 said:


> just wondering, because i've got some ideas i plan to attempt this fall and winter. what do you guys consider "kit less"./quote]
> 
> Charlie, a little insight...........the term was first used on this forum a couple years ago in a post I made. I used the term "kitless" in describing the pens I was starting to make. I basically got bored with opening a bag of parts (kit), turning a blank round then pressing all the kit parts together one after another after another! To keep my interest in pen making up I started pouring my own alumilite resin, cutting, boring and tapping to make my pens without all the typical kit parts. I don't think anyone is really bent over the axle over what the official definition is since there really is none.
> 
> It amuses me to no end the lengths some go to in describing what a kitless pen should or should not be or what is "allowed" or not when it really doesn't matter. When I show a customer a pen, I say I make these in my shop, I don't go into detail saying which pens have parts that come from China, Taiwan, Germany or even Albuquerque since again.... it doesn't matter. Just make what you like, call it what you like and as long as you have a big ole grin on your face when you show it off, THAT's what matters! :biggrin:


----------



## mredburn (Sep 18, 2011)

We use the word kitless to describe to other turners a pen we make with out just taking all the components in the bag/box out and stuffing them onto a turned blank. We dont have to define it and we have never agreed on a definition of kitless. Its like art I cant define it but I know it when I see it.

And as George posted as I was forming my post 
"Just make what you like, call it what you like and as long as you have a big ole grin on your face when you show it off, THAT's what matters! :biggrin: "


----------



## Kaspar (Sep 18, 2011)

Strictly speaking no one is making kitless pens.  I don't know of anyone who is planning to make his own nibs, feeds, transmissions, rollerball cartridges, etc ...  though it would be interesting to see someone try.

Kitless may be hard to define, but I think of it in "functionalist" terms.  It's a mentality.  The more you move away from kits, the more liberty you will have to take a special piece of material and make the pen all about it.  Even the best-looking kits are limiting.  In fact, the better looking they are, the more you have to think about whether the material is distracting from the fine craftsmanship of the kit parts.  There are degrees and exceptions on this, but "plain blank for a fancy kit" is reasonable advice.

I kind of consider doing your own threading, at all points, to be the moment when you've passed the frontiers of kitlessness.  You're are no longer limited to kits, and could take off and do anything, make the pen any length you want, shape it how you want.  You probably still have a lot to learn, but your skills are now complete.


----------

