# Alternative Finishes?



## crabcreekind (Jul 29, 2011)

OK so lately, whenever im around ca for more than a minute my eyes start to hurt and water, so i just have to walk away. (i use a respirator but thats no good for eyes) Other than getting a full head mast than protects the eyes from fumes. I was wondering what other finishes there are that make just as shiny as pen as CA. I used to use friction polish so i know that finish. Thanks.


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## GColeman (Jul 29, 2011)

This looks promising'
http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=82967


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## kovalcik (Jul 29, 2011)

I just started using the Doctor's Woodshop Finish.  It definitely shines up very well and is a pleasure to use. No fumes and shines up fast and easy. I will be interested to see how it stands up.


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## bnoles (Jul 29, 2011)

I like this 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNgaCv3aPdw&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL


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## RHossack (Jul 29, 2011)

James ... next time you are in Woodcraft have Nick show you the Enduro VAR and High Performance waterborne finishes.  Two of the pens I had their Tuesday 
were finished with that ... low to no odor, high gloss shine.

Enduro ...







High Performance ...






Or wait about a month for the New Pen Turners Finish from General Finishes.


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## thewishman (Jul 29, 2011)

I use plexiglas, it is easy, quick and cheap. Here's how I do it:


After the plexi is dissolved I pour it into a clear
condiment bottle (Wal-Mart $.79, but any container 
that allows you do dispense a drop will work - though 
you should check to make sure the acetone won't 
dissolve the bottle) and add a bit more
acetone until the solution is a bit thicker than thin
CA glue. I check mine by putting a drop on a paper 
towel, the drop should retain its shape for just a second 
before being absorbed.You can experiment to get your ideal
viscosity, some people like the solution much thicker
than mine. 

I sand my blanks to 400 grit and then remove all of
the dust from them. I lay newspaper across my lathe,
under the mandrel and set the lathe at 1800 rpm, I
also have a spacer bushing at each end of the mandrel.
I put a small bag from a pen kit and put it over my
index finger, fold a 1/2 paper towel to about 1/2 inch
wide. 

Put a couple of drops of solution on the paper towel
and run it under the spinning blanks. Start applying
just a little pressure on the bushing set before the
blank and make a smooth motion through the bushing at
the opposite end (the motion should take about as long
as it takes to say "motion.") Then put another drop on
the towel and go the opposite way, use enough solution
so that the towel is transferring the solution to the
blanks through the whole range. I put 40 coats on
in about 3 to 4 minutes (drip, slide, drip, slide) it
dries quickly enough that the  time it takes to add a
drip is all the time you need to wait. (Thicker
solutions mean slower drying time.) 

After the coats have been applied, I let the lathe
spin for 2-3 minutes and then start wet sanding (just water)
 with Micro Mesh. Be careful with the 1500 grit, with my
first few tries I removed most of the plexi with that
one. Just a few seconds with moderate pressure is
enough for each grit, and dry off the blank between
grits to remove the slurry. The MM work is done at the
same 1800 rpms. After some practice the whole
procedure from the first drop to removing the polished
blanks takes about 6 - 7 minutes.

I turn the lathe off and use a utility knife to score
the plexi just a bout 1/16 - 1/8 inch from the end of
the blank, be careful to do it lightly so you don't
cut into your bushings. I learned the hard way to
score, since the finish is built up on the bushings as
well as the  blanks. I then remove the blanks and trim
any extra finish off the ends. I put a small piece of 400
grit sandpaper on the lathe bed and rub the finished ends 
of the barrels (holding them perpendicular to the bed) to clean 
off any extra finish that might extend from the ends.


I got a sheet of plexiglas from Lowes' scrap bin for a dollar. That 2' X 2.5' piece was enough for well over 1000 pens. You don't have to do anything special to the plexi, just break it up small enough to fit in your dissolving jar (the jar you use for dissolving, not a jar that dissolves) and pour enough acetone to cover the plexi. You can then pour from that jar into your plastic bottle and adjust the ratio in there.

Be sure to get plexiglas (acrylic) not the polycarbonate - that is completely different - it won't dissolve, it will just become a soft blob.


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## dabeeler (Jul 29, 2011)

Here is my preferred finish http://www.woodturnerruss.com/FSOriginal5.html


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## okiebugg (Jul 30, 2011)

*Plexiglass????*



thewishman said:


> I use plexiglas, it is easy, quick and cheap. Here's how I do it:
> 
> 
> After the plexi is dissolved I pour it into a clear
> ...


 
How long have you been using this for a finish? Does it work well as far as absorption on semi-pithy wood....Would this type of wood take several coats again because of absorption? I have some OLD Box Elder and spalted Ash that are quite pithy. I can get them turned OK, but unless you soak them with CA, there is no way to put a finish on them. Thanks in advance


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## kevrob (Jul 30, 2011)

Chris, thanks for your detailed description of your process.  Although I am newer to pen turning, I have never heard of using plexiglass.  What a fascinating idea and process.  Do other turners use it?  How does it hold up over time. Thanks for sharing!


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## workinforwood (Jul 30, 2011)

Eduro, water based poly, very strong and can be brought up to a mirror shine and last super long..it's an awesome finish. The downside is it takes lots of time to do. You need to apply many coats, and you should let it cure before you smooth and polish it. You can be looking at a week to finish a pen, but of course you can set up a system where you finish many pens at a time, so in the end the time spent is not so bad.


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## RHossack (Jul 30, 2011)

workinforwood said:


> Eduro, water based poly, very strong and can be brought up to a mirror shine and last super long..it's an awesome finish. The downside is it takes lots of time to do. You need to apply many coats, and you should let it cure before you smooth and polish it. You can be looking at a week to finish a pen, but of course you can set up a system where you finish many pens at a time, so in the end the time spent is not so bad.


Jeff ... is this the enduro you typed about?






I use this and I 'dip' my pens and place in hot box and re-dip every 15-30 minutes as I remember and usually do 4 dips total and then let it sit in the hot box until the next day and use the brasso to polish.


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## bnoles (Jul 31, 2011)

Hi Ron,

I for one would love to hear more details about your "hot box" ???

TIA


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## thewishman (Jul 31, 2011)

okiebugg said:


> How long have you been using this for a finish? Does it work well as far as absorption on semi-pithy wood....Would this type of wood take several coats again because of absorption? I have some OLD Box Elder and spalted Ash that are quite pithy. I can get them turned OK, but unless you soak them with CA, there is no way to put a finish on them. Thanks in advance





kevrob said:


> Chris, thanks for your detailed description of  your process.  Although I am newer to pen turning, I have never heard of  using plexiglass.  What a fascinating idea and process.  Do other  turners use it?  How does it hold up over time. Thanks for  sharing!




I've been using this finish for about six years. It is very durable and shiny, Russ Fairfield rated it at the top of his list for durability, a bit above CA.

There are several (many?) that use this solution to stabilize their own wood in a vacuum chamber - it works well. Just applying it like thin CA will not work for stabilizing - it won't be absorbed very well, it is not a penetrating finish.


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## RHossack (Jul 31, 2011)

bnoles said:


> Hi Ron,
> 
> I for one would love to hear more details about your "hot box" ???


not much to it ... a multi-purpose tool.

1 x 3 oak frame, a cardboard box, table lamp with 30 watt bulb and a thermometer.  I use 1/4" Eyebolts to hang the pens from while I dip.

Sits on an old drawer for airflow and it keeps it around 95º - 100º 

MJ, the Ragdoll Cat helps ... he likes to watch the waterborne poly drip on the 2x4 base.

In the winter I dip in the kitchen because its too cold in the garage and he'll lay on top of the cardboard box for the heat.


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## bnoles (Jul 31, 2011)

Ron,

Thanks ever so much for the most informative reply with pictures.  It looks like I am going to have to make me one of these and try your method.  Your time in sharing this is much appreciated.


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## wb7whi (Jul 31, 2011)

Do you use a dust vacuum? That would suck the fumes away. A common shopvac can be rigged to do the job. I also like enduro. I am the type to set it and forget it so the time factor is not a problem for me.


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## IPD_Mrs (Jul 31, 2011)

I too have had problems with the fumes from the CA products (various brands) and ultimately found two things - first, the odorless CA works much better for me personally.  Second, IF I take my time when doing this and don't get it to a point where it "smokes" the paper towels then the effects are quite as bad either.  
Different brands that are not odorless also have different levels of annoyance to my system.  The ZAP brand is my personal favorite followed by EZBond (but only when it comes to how it bothers me).

Linda


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## Oldmanwheeler (Jul 31, 2011)

crabcreekind said:


> OK so lately, whenever im around ca for more than a minute my eyes start to hurt and water, so i just have to walk away. (i use a respirator but thats no good for eyes) Other than getting a full head mast than protects the eyes from fumes. I was wondering what other finishes there are that make just as shiny as pen as CA. I used to use friction polish so i know that finish. Thanks.



I've been very pleased with Doctor's Woodshop finishes. I've tried them all and Doctor's woodshop seems to be the best of all worlds.  Give it a try, you can't bet Mike's pricing.


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## StephenM (Jul 31, 2011)

A couple of years ago, the blower went out on our furnace.  A few months later, the entire unit shot craps.  I didn't want to throw away a new 200 blower motor so I rigged it up in the shop for extra wind.  Whenever the fumes start getting to my eyes, I plug that sucker in and no more problems.  I would imagine a regular box fan blowing right at the lathe would accomplish the same thing.


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## snyiper (Aug 1, 2011)

Could rig a computer fan to do the same thing for air movement. It wont blow as hard but wont pick up dust and toss it either.


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## Russianwolf (Aug 1, 2011)

Deft Lacquer for me. Both spray and dipped depending on what mood I'm in.

Takes longer to fully cure, but nothing comes close to it in terms of look and feel for me.


Was watching an episode of Pawn Stars this weekend and Chumley bought a Gibson mandolin. When he took it to get it authenticated, the guy said something to the effect that the finish looked too much like plastic to have come from Gibson which used only lacquer. (one of about 5 things wrong with the mandolin, that was an obvious fake)


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## kovalcik (Aug 1, 2011)

RHossack,

When you dip a pen, do you just dip it and let it drip or do you take off the excess in some way (rag, brush, etc.)  Do you have to smooth it out by sanding at the end or just go straight to polishing? 

Thanks for any tips.


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## RHossack (Aug 1, 2011)

kovalcik said:


> RHossack,
> 
> When you dip a pen, do you just dip it and let it drip or do you take off the excess in some way (rag, brush, etc.)  Do you have to smooth it out by sanding at the end or just go straight to polishing?


Just let her drip.  No sanding and usually no polishing


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## okiebugg (Aug 1, 2011)

RHossack said:


> kovalcik said:
> 
> 
> > RHossack,
> ...


 
When dipping, I hope you're dipping just the tubes! Do you plug te tubes so as to not get the lacquer inside the tubes? Thanks for the info, I'm gonna have to try it.


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## RHossack (Aug 2, 2011)

okiebugg said:


> When dipping, I hope you're dipping just the tubes! Do you plug te tubes so as to not get the lacquer inside the tubes? Thanks for the info, I'm gonna have to try it.


No, I don't get any of the various dipping agents I use inside the tubes ...

I use 1/4" Eye Bolts with nuts and extra bushings.  A nut, Bushing, Blank, Bushing, Nut and then finger tightened.

The bushings provide a capillary action and the Enduro and/or High Performance wicks off the blank.

There is no collar build up of the finish on the end of the blank and the bushings come off very easily when finished.

Hopefully this pic explains it better than my words.


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## okiebugg (Aug 2, 2011)

*Alternative finish*

Thanks for the info....I'm gonna try it today!


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## okiebugg (Aug 10, 2011)

*Plexiglass finish*

I've gone and done it. Plexi finish in the beginning is a trial and error proposition. Viscosity (IMO) is the key for me. After doing the melt, keep adding Acetone to the mix untio it appears like thin Tomato soup. After that, follow the above instructions.

I find the finished product makes a pen shine like a diamond in a goat's arse. It does require you to undertake a bit of a steep learning curve (and practice makes perfect).

What you end up with is a perfectly presentable pen that you aren't discouraged to show because of the finish.

One caveat. Any sanding marks left behind on the blank are almost magnified because the finish is SO clear


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