# FP kit that doesn't dry out?



## mikeschn (Nov 13, 2022)

So I am looking for a fountain pen kit that doesn't dry out. I've turned Barons, Sedonas, Olympians, PSI Classics and Classic Elite 2s for example... After a week of sitting on the table, capped of course, they are all dried out. Compare that to my Platinum Preppys, which just keep on writing and writing and writing! The secret of the Platinums is the slip and seal cap. I don't expect to find a slip and seal cap in a kit, but I was wondering if any kits can keep the pen writing after not being used for a week? Suggestions?


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## monophoto (Nov 13, 2022)

Platinum pens do offer an unusual slip-seal closure that prevents them from drying out quickly.  However, I don't share your fascination with Preppy's - the one I bought only lasted a couple of weeks before the body cracked such that the section would no longer screw into the body.  So when I tried to remove the cap, the section would separate from the body instead.  I ended up replacing the plastic body with the aluminum body from a Plaisir, and it's been going strong for a couple of years with no problem.

As to the drying out problem - my observation is that pens with 'snap caps' almost always dry out faster than pens with screw caps, and any fountain pen that is not regularly used will eventually dry out.  That's true of both factory-made and kit pens.  Even my Platinum Preppy-Plaisir will dry out if I let it sit for a few weeks without use.

I keep several pens inked and in regular use, choosing one pen each day as my 'carry pen', and trying to rotate between them on some kind of regular basis.  Sometimes they don't want to start - so I keep a scrap of paper towel on the desk that I use to prime my selected pen for use.  I find that if the pen is just starting to dry out, touching the nib several times to high-absorbant paper towel will draw out enough ink to start the flow.  If that doesn't work, plan B is to open the body and twist the converter a quarter of a turn to force ink into the section.  And if that doesn't work, plan C is to run a little water over the nib.  And yes, there is a plan D - flush and refill the pen.

So if you want a pen kit that has a longer 'dwell time',  go with one where the cap screws onto the body.


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## rixstix (Nov 13, 2022)

The FP kits from Bullseye turning do well after sitting.  My first Apollo has been inked for nearly a year & a half & has yet to dry.  It gets used infrequently.  I have never had any other kit last over a few weeks.

The original version came with Bock nibs.  The current versikn comes with Schmidt.

https://bullseyeturningsupply.com/products/apollo-neos-pen-kit


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## mikeschn (Nov 13, 2022)

@rixstix

I agree. My Apollo has been sitting idle for a month. I uncapped it this morning and it still writes. It's a first gen with a Bock nib. I also have a 2nd gen with the triple start threads. I've never inked that one up. I think I'll ink that one up today. I'll get back to you in a month with the results! Ha!

I wish I could find more pen kits that don't dry out.


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## Bstrauch (Nov 13, 2022)

The Beaufort Ink FPs (Mistral and Cyclone) are very reliable and I have not had one dry out.  They come with a good nib, which will make a difference.


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## mikeschn (Nov 13, 2022)

@Bstrauch 

Those look good. Do you actually buy those in the UK? Got a US source?


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## rixstix (Nov 13, 2022)

I must retract comment regarding Apollo rev 2.  Something about the design change is not playing nice.  Either loose triple start or Schmidt nib or both.  The first inking had issues & I thought a minor change on my part helped but I just tested & it's gonna take some work to write.  There's less than a turn, triple start rev2 vs multiple turns, single start rev 1.


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## mikeschn (Nov 13, 2022)

@rixstix 

You might want to consider swapping out the section and the nib with a section and nib from another Apollo gen2 kit. 

I inked up my gen 2 Apollo, and it's writing just fine. I grabbed another kit and tested the parts for air tightness, and everything seemed to be nice and tight. (I was concerned about the triple start threads...)

Here are my 2 Apollo's... Gen 2 on top, Gen 1 on the bottom





Medium point Schmidt nib, writes just fine!


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## rixstix (Nov 13, 2022)

@mikeschn 

Your rev 2 has been inked how long?

Mine writes fine, just not after an idle week or so vs rev1.


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## mikeschn (Nov 13, 2022)

rixstix said:


> @mikeschn
> 
> Your rev 2 has been inked how long?
> 
> Mine writes fine, just not after an idle week or so vs rev1.


@rixstix

30 minutes!  Ha! I will check it again next weekend, and report back...


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## mikeschn (Nov 13, 2022)

I am sitting here staring at a Baron Fountain Pen. I sure would like to make it a little more air tight...

I am debating if I can make an inner cap that fits over the nib. I would have to slide it into the outer cap before I press in the other components.


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## mikeschn (Nov 13, 2022)

Okay so here is the inside cap idea for the Baron Fountain Pen...  it's a little rough, hoping you can see what I am thinking... your thoughts?


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## Bstrauch (Nov 14, 2022)

mikeschn said:


> @Bstrauch
> 
> Those look good. Do you actually buy those in the UK? Got a US source?


In the US: https://www.turnerswarehouse.com


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## mikeschn (Nov 14, 2022)

Bstrauch said:


> In the US: https://www.turnerswarehouse.com


Thanks!


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## monophoto (Nov 18, 2022)

Further information:  this subject was discussed by Ian Schon on the Goulet Pen podcast this week.  Schon is a mechanical engineer by training who runs a high-quality specialty pen manufacturing company in Philadelphia.  He was asked specifically about the issue of pens drying out, and he pointed to three pens (one of his, one by Edison Pen Company, and one by Esterbrook) that were especially good about not drying out, and noted that the things they had in common were that they had screw caps. Schmidt converters and used Jowo #6 nibs.  But he also noted that in his design, he went further to include an o-ring in the cap to further seal it from air to prevent drying.

I have a vague recollection of a pen kit that I became aware of when I first got into pen making 12 years ago that had an o-ring.  I don't recall which kit it was, and it's probably no longer available anyway.


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## mikeschn (Nov 24, 2022)

@monophoto Is this the pen with the o-ring you are thinking about?






						Premium Classic Fountain Pen v2 - WoodTurningz
					

These have a threading system which is far superior to the previous metal on metal threading before!<br/><br/>WoodTurningz Premium Classic Fountain Pens have the quality you've been looking for at a price that can't be ignored! <br /><br />*Uses 10mm drill bit, PARK10BU bushings and turns on a...




					www.woodturningz.com
				




Do you have any links to the 3 pens you are talking about in your post? 

I think this is the SchonDSGN pen…









						Full Sized Engineered Plastics - Ultem/Peek/Black Ultem
					

The first full sized fountain pen from Schon DSGN! AND its machined from Ultem, Black Ultem and Peek! I say full sized since it fits not just cartridges that fit in this pen but a converter as well. This pen uses a Schmidt K5 converter and a Jowo #6 nib. It was also designed to be as compact as...




					www.schondsgn.com
				




Edit: It looks like any of the SchonDSGN pens that have an oring in the cap keep from drying out longer…

I found the video you were talking about… Ian shows up at the 1 hour 7 minute mark!!!


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## monophoto (Nov 24, 2022)

mikeschn said:


> @monophoto Is this the pen with the o-ring you are thinking about?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Perhaps - it's been a minute since I last saw the pen.  I know that at the time I saw it, I was focused on kits from PSI and Craft Supplies so it had to have been available from one or the other of them.


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## mikeschn (Dec 11, 2022)

mikeschn said:


> @rixstix
> 
> 30 minutes!  Ha! I will check it again next weekend, and report back...


@rixstix, @monophoto, @Bstrauch 

So I dug out the 2nd gen Apollo, which I inked up on 11/13. Just two days shy of a month, I uncapped it, and it wrote instantly, perfect flow! So that's good news!

Mike...


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## monophoto (Dec 11, 2022)

mikeschn said:


> Okay so here is the inside cap idea for the Baron Fountain Pen...  it's a little rough, hoping you can see what I am thinking... your thoughts?
> 
> View attachment 343558


As discussed above, my experience is that fountain pens with slip on caps tend to dry out faster than those with screw on caps.  But in addition, my experience with kit fountain pens with slip on caps is that the device inside the cap that snaps onto the section is a source of great frustration when assembling the pen.

The first problem is installing the snap cap.  In most kits, the device is supposed to thread onto a male stud on the bottom of the top finial.   The hole in the snap cap that goes onto that thread is unthreaded, and the material is a hard a hard plastic that doesn't want to thread easily.  The instructions that come with the pen suggest inserting a No. 2 Phillips screwdriver into the bottom of the device (where the section normally goes), and using that to rotate the plastic bit onto the threaded stud.  My experience is that that approach just doesn't work very well.  The plastic material is too hard, and the end of the screwdriver doesn't grip the plastic; so instead of driving the unthreaded female portion onto the threaded male portion, the screwdrive simply rotates inside the plastic shell.   I've found that a Torx screwdriver works marginally better.  Better yet, sacrifice a cheap Harbor Freight phillips screwdrive by grinding the nose off so that there are four sharp corners.  But the best solution is to carefully measure the threading of that stud, and then use a machinist's tap to cut real threads on the female portion of the plastic gadget.  But the problem that creates is that if the threads are too loose, the snap cap will quickly become loose as the cap is removed and replaced.  Adding a drop of thick CA (or Loctite) may solve that problem, but its important to not use too much.  

And then there is the matter of getting the snap cap aligned so that the cap and body are spaced properly when the section snaps in place.  If the snap cap is installed dry (with no thread locker), it may be possible to rotate the body to advance or withdraw the snap cap enough to get the desired spacing, but if CA or locktite are used to lock the threads, that's difficult.  

Finally, I've been known to totally destroy a plastic snap device when trying to install it inside the finished cap of a pen.  Bad words were said! Some pen kit vendors have spare parts, but that means another order, and waiting another week before completing the assembly.  GRRRRRRR.


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## mikeschn (Dec 25, 2022)

More food for thought... Has anyone seen these caps for kits out in the wild?



			Pentrace Article #102501_127 Anatomy of a Fountain Pen I: A Typical Lever Filler


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## monophoto (Dec 25, 2022)

mikeschn said:


> More food for thought... Has anyone seen these caps for kits out in the wild?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This article was written by Richard Binder who was one of the best known fountain pen repair persons in North America.  Here's a link to a National Geographic video about him:  




The drawing depicts a typical lever-filling fountain pen.  For years, this  was the most common design from the invention of transportable fountain pens until it was replaced by cartridges and converters.  Ink was contained in a rubber sac inside the barrel; to fill the pen, one would pull back on a lever to force a metal plate to squeeze the sac, and when the lever was released, the resulting vacuum would draw ink through the nib and into the sac.  One of the shortcomings of the design was that the rubber used to make the sac would dry out and crack, and much of Binder's work involved replacing old sacs.  There aren't many lever fillers being made any more, but you will see many of them in pen show collections.  I presume that some of them may have the inner cap arrangement show in the sketch, but its not possible to know for sure without disassembling the cap.  However, I do know that none of the screw-cap fountain pens currently residing on my desk has an inner cap.

The text accompanying the image includes this description:  "The inner cap, also shown cut away, is pressed permanently into the cap, and the lip of the inner cap mates with the flat face of the section to form an airtight seal when the cap is screwed on tightly."  That means that the air seal was created when the end of the inner cap was pressed against the face of the section as the cap was screwed onto the body.  However, the potential weakness of this arrangement is that it relies on the two mating surfaces being absolutely flat, and on the cap threads assuring that they are perfectly parallel so that they seal tightly against each other.  

I would think another way to accomplish the same effect would be to incorporate a rubber o-ring in the seal.  However, o-rings periodically need to be replaced, and that introduces a new set of problems.

Snap cap pens have a semi-flexible plastic inner cap that works by capturing a ridge at the end of the section in a recess inside the cap.  That works well as a way to hold the cap onto the body, but because the ridge is only loosely held in the recess, it's not airtight.  Screw cap pens can seal better than snap-caps,  but require that the cap be screwed onto the body, and if the cap isn't tightened enough, the seal won't be effective, and also the cap can work its way off the body.  The Japanese pen manufacturer Platinum uses  a patented  'slip and seal' design that supposedly overcomes the shortcomings of both snap can and screw-cap designs.;  this design appears to employ a spring inside the cap to maintain pressure on the mating surfaces of the air seal. 

Fountain pens are notorious for leaking.  Hence, those of us who were considered nerds in high school typically used plastic pocket protectors to avoid ink stains on our shirts.


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