# segmenting with aluminum



## Parson (May 26, 2010)

I'm using aluminum from a leftover pie plate for segmenting. It looks great, but the stuff won't remain glued to the PR I'm using no matter how much I scratch it up or score it. I'm even hitting it with denatured alcohol before I do the glue ups.

BTW, I am allowing the denatured alcohol swiped pieces to fully dry and not using wood in this particular project... so it's not an issue of moisture. I am using medium and thick CA glues.

What are you guys doing to get better bonds with aluminum?


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## PenMan1 (May 26, 2010)

I have tried and tried to do exactly the same thing with CA. The heat makes it turn loose when drilling. My theory is that this aluminum is so thin that it puts too much heat on the CA. I now glue aluminum and brass segments with Loctite 5 minute expoxy which works well for me.


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## Rfturner (May 26, 2010)

try 5 minute epoxy


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## DurocShark (May 26, 2010)

If it's dark stuff you're gluing to the aluminum, try JBWeld.


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## Craftdiggity (May 26, 2010)

I think those pie plates are coated with a non-stick coating.  Try using a cut up soda can.  That is what I use and I've never had a problem.  I just use CA and it works fine.


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## Drcal (May 26, 2010)

I too think it is the pie plates.  Try another source for aluminum.

I am still turning simple pens.  I went toy9our I went to your website and your segmentations are outstanding.  Can you just tell me how you square your wood or whatever?  Table saw?  Chop saw?  I have been experimenting with a wide blade on my band saw but it just doesn't work.  The first problem I have is starting with a squared up side on a tiny blank.

Carmen


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## seamus7227 (May 26, 2010)

try using coke cans or any 12 oz aluminum cans, cut the tops  and bottoms off and sand all of the logo off. If that is too thin, try some old license plates, they are aluminum as well. It just depends on the thickness that you are looking for. and i would use 5 min epoxy too. i agree with others as well.


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## Parson (May 26, 2010)

Drcal said:


> I too think it is the pie plates.  Try another source for aluminum.
> 
> I am still turning simple pens.  I went to your website and your segmentations are outstanding.  Can you just tell me how you square your wood or whatever?  Table saw?  Chop saw?  I have been experimenting with a wide blade on my band saw but it just doesn't work.  The first problem I have is starting with a squared up side on a tiny blank.
> 
> Carmen



Just tonight I was cussing under my breath about my inability to square up my latest pen blank... sometimes I nail it and get it square and keep it that way and other times (like tonight) I can't get it square for nuthin!

If you don't own an engineer's square, go get a small one. Make sure it's one of those heavy ones from India or even the more expensive USA made ones. It won't be cheap, but it's an indispensable tool. I check my blanks as I build them with this tool on the X, Y, and Z axis.

For squaring, I use a table saw with an 80 kerf blade, a home-made sled, and an Incra jig screwed down to it. I can slice totally square and ultra thin slices of materials and do it in repeated fashion if I need to do it. I'll take pix of it and post it here so you can see what it looks like.

I also use my table top disc/belt sander to grind material down to proper angles, but you gotta be so careful because every half second shaves off tons of material. I've screwed up lots of work with the sander.

BTW, the pen in question (pie tin) was completed tonight after it repeatedly blew apart at every single stage of the process. What a pain in the butt. It's also nice enough for my private collection, but not really nice enough to sell for the amount of time I put into it... I've got nearly 15 hours in it and I don't think I could get more than $125 for it, so it will stay in my case for show.

I'll post pix of the pen here too.


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## Parson (May 27, 2010)

Well folks, here's the finished product. The colors are actually much brighter than these crappy pix, but I must learn how to get a base blank totally square and keep it that way. This pen has some issues with squaring and the bottom piece wasn't drilled perfect so the line down the center just a bit.


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## moke (May 27, 2010)

That is a beautiful pen, very well done.  Could you post a photo of that sled?
Thanks
Mike


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## Parson (May 27, 2010)

moke said:


> Could you post a photo of that sled?



Yup. I just gotta get home and do that. I shot the pic of the pen at my office this morning.

I'll post it on this thread later today or tonight.


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## daveeisler (May 31, 2010)

I used 5 min epoxy with great results, but I had issues when finishing, you know the black dust , how did you avoid that problem, please share your finishing technique, thanks Dave


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## hewunch (May 31, 2010)

what kind of drill bit are you using? I have found that brad point bits like to mess up metal segments so I use jobber type bits (twist)


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## tnilmerl (Jun 1, 2010)

I have had great success with a glue called Roo (excuse the rhyme).  Yes, its from australia.  Picked up at local Woodcraft store.  I also have had great success with polyurethane glues.  Because of the expansive power of the glue when curing, you HAVE to make a clamping jig.  Moisten the parts (helps activate glue, smear a complete even coat and clamp.  Don't worry about overclamping.  You simply cannot clamp too much as to squeeze out all the glue.  So clamp with a lot of pressure.  Be very careful not to get on skin.  It WILL stain your skin.  Wipe off all the excess and squeeze out.  You may have to do this a couple of times until it starts to 'set'.  I lay out blank on wax paper and use as a shield between clamp and blank.  keeps things nice and neat.  Let setup and harden overnight.  Remove from clamping jig and cleanup.  I use a chisel to cut off all the squeezed out hardened glue.  YMMV.


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## Craftdiggity (Jun 1, 2010)

The pen looks great, Randall.  What did you end up using for the aluminum strips?


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## Parson (Jun 2, 2010)

Chris, it's the bottom of a frozen pie shell you get at the grocery store.

You know that saying that when your only tool is a hammer everything looks like a nail? When your favorite tool is a lathe, everything looks like a pen!

I'm going to use coke can next. It's thinner.

Now does anyone know of a "gold" colored material that's soft that shines up to match titanium kits?


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## DurocShark (Jun 2, 2010)

Parson said:


> Now does anyone know of a "gold" colored material that's soft that shines up to match titanium kits?



Brass sheet is available at Hobby Lobby (and other hobby and model shops) for a couple of bucks. It looks great as part of a pen.


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## PenMan1 (Jun 2, 2010)

Parson said:


> Chris, it's the bottom of a frozen pie shell you get at the grocery store.
> 
> You know that saying that when your only tool is a hammer everything looks like a nail? When your favorite tool is a lathe, everything looks like a pen!
> 
> ...


 
Ace hardware has brass shims in all different thicknesses. MUCH cheaper than Hobby Lobby or Michaels. And you can get about any thickness you want.... Of course, I bought 3 of every thickness.....I need more STUFF clogging up the shop

For what is is worth..... They also sell aluminum shims the same way. Much easier than cutting Coke cans.


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## Lenny (Jun 2, 2010)

That's a great pen!

fwiw... most lumber/hardware stores sell aluminum flashing in rolls or packages of pre-cut pieces (for step flashing sidewalls).
The local one I use will sell by the foot, cutting from rolls that vary from 4" to 24" (and more) wide.


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## Craftdiggity (Jun 2, 2010)

You can also try aluminum sheathing from Home Depot.  It's thicker than soda cans and looks great on a pen.


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## LarryDNJR (Jun 2, 2010)

DurocShark said:


> Brass sheet is available at Hobby Lobby (and other hobby and model shops) for a couple of bucks. It looks great as part of a pen.



I picked up some Brass/Tin/Copper sheets recently.  I'm going to try them out here in the next few days.  They are nice and flat to start with, not real thin or thick and have some flexibility to them.


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## Parson (Jun 4, 2010)

Quick update. Sold the pen pictured in this thread for $125 to the first guy who saw it. I'd have held out for a lot more, but the top band wasn't straight and it wasn't my best work. He loves it though! Said he signed a big contract with it today. Nice.

BTW, if you guys aren't going after financial planners, they love a fine writing instrument. Sell them one and then show up with another rollerball with a cross highlighter refill in it and you'll sell that one to them too!


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## phillywood (Jun 5, 2010)

First congrats. on selling the pen it looked good. Secondly, don't qoute me ,but i have heard that aluminum has a peoperty for not bonding with glue that well. On the other hands anything that's Al and shiny has coating on it. That's why you had hard time guing it ( although the glue manf. didn't mind to get your money for that). And i agree with the other guys in buying the sheet Al. I used to live in Houston and if I am not wring there is Recycling place behind that Bus. park between 610& 10 & 290 on the west side of town and you can get to it form Wirt RD. of course this was late 80's I am not sure if it's still there. Anyways,sometimes you can get sheets and what not from ther at $.20/Lbs and you cna find all kind of stuff for fraction of the cost. Good Luck.


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## PenMan1 (Jun 5, 2010)

CFP (certified financial planners) and CLU (certified insurance underwriters) are some of my best customers, along with lawyers, who always want to haggle over the price.


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## phillywood (Jun 6, 2010)

PenMan1 said:


> CFP (certified financial planners) and CLU (certified insurance underwriters) are some of my best customers, along with lawyers, who always want to haggle over the price.


 
man they are Lawyers what did you think, they would haggle you for a penny if they can.


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## jocat54 (Jun 6, 2010)

Randall have you had time to get a picture of your sled with the incra jig?
Nice pen.


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## soligen (Jun 8, 2010)

I gave this a try over the week end, and discovered some things.  Any advice on these welcome.

The aluminium I bought was .025 inches, which is narrower than the kerf on my band saw.  The pattern I tested has multiple lines that cross symetrically, and will not be possible to do accurately if the kerf and aluminium dont match.  Is it possible to match? How? or does everyone simply avoid patterns where this is critical?

I wasnt able to make a curved cut wothout it being wavey.  I finally made a small circle cutting jig, which gave me a nice smooth cut, but limits me to circle radius curves.  Is it reasonable to expect free-had curves to be smooth, and i just need more practice (and maybe a different blade)?  or do others all use a circle jig?  using a 1/4 blade with 15 tpi (or maybe 18 ).

Any advice appreciated.  Thanks


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## Parson (Jun 9, 2010)

jocat54 said:


> Randall have you had time to get a picture of your sled with the incra jig?
> Nice pen.



I just posted pix of the sled and Incra jig in the shops jigs fixtures and tools area.


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## Rfturner (Jun 9, 2010)

Great job parson it looks great, I had a pen one time that I brought it to a show thinking if it sells it sells, it was the first one gone. I think that you did a great job on it keep it up


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## navycop (Dec 7, 2010)

seamus7227 said:


> try using coke cans or any 12 oz aluminum cans, cut the tops and bottoms off and sand all of the logo off. and i would use 5 mn epoxy too. i agree with others as well.


Can you please PM me on how to use soda cans? Do you wrap the aluminum around the tube like the denim pen?


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## snyiper (Dec 7, 2010)

Mike you cut the top and bottom off and slit the side lay flat and sand off logo and coating on the can aluminum. Then you make cuts in your blank and glue in the aluminum. It can be at any angle or even straight. Drill your blank and turn, you will see the aluminum in the curves.


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## aggromere (Dec 8, 2010)

The few times I have used aluminum i had no problems.   I got the tip from the forums and cut up an old coke can, flattened it out and sanded each side real well.


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