# ink cartridges



## montmill (Mar 21, 2022)

My wife has used up the ink in the first fountain pen I've made. It is a Junior Gent kit. I salvaged some spares from some old kits and was surprised to find the first one she tried she couldn't get to open, even after poking the end with a pin. She discarded it and another one worked just fine. These kits were no doubt over five years old but had been in a controlled environment so I know they didn't freeze. She's looking at getting some Waterman refills but wonders will the long fit in that kit?  We think they will but don't want to order the wrong ones. Thanks for your help.


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## monophoto (Mar 21, 2022)

David

Fountain pen 'refills' are usually referred to as 'cartridges'.  You and your wife need to first understand the difference between 'standard international' cartridges (or more correctly, 'standard international short cartridges') and proprietary cartridges.   The differences relate to the dimensions of the cartridges, most importantly, the dimensions of the female portion of the cartridge that must match exactly a nipple in the pen section.  

Proprietary cartridges are those that are made by a pen manufacturer for exclusive use in the pens they make;  they generally won't fit pens from other manufacturers (although there are a few exceptions).  There is a fairly short list of manufacturers who choose the vertically-integrated approach and make proprietary cartridges:  the list that I have includes Cross, MontBlanc, Platinum, Aurora, Faber-Castell, Lamy, Namiki, Parker, Pilot, Sailor, Shaeffer, and Waterman.  

By contrast, other manufacturers design their products to use essentially universal cartridges, more generally called 'standard international short cartridges'.  (There are also 'standard international long cartridges', but they are possibly misnamed because as far as I know, only one manufacturer makes them and they fit only one brand of pen - Pelikan - so they really aren't standard standard, but that's a diversion). 

That said, the first thing that is important to your situation is that pens made from kits are all designed to work with standard international short cartridges, and because Waterman cartridges are proprietary, they won't fit your wife's pen.

You mentioned that you were unable to install a cartridge that came with another pen kit in your wife's pen.  Obviously, while the dimensions of  standard international short cartridges can be standardized, there can still be differences.  Most pen kits and components come from China which also produces a lot of cartridges, some of which are good, and some are junk.  It therefore wouldn't be a surprise to find variations in the quality of cartridges supplied with kits.

But that said, it is true that sometimes it takes a bit more force to install a cartridge.

So where does that leave you.  I think you have two choices:

There are many very good inks out there from reputable suppliers that are packaged in standard international short cartridges.  Brands include Diamine, Private Reserve, Pelikan, Jacques Herbin, Montegrappa, Monteverde, Kaweco, and many others, and those manufacturers offer a dazzling variety of inks to choose from.
It is also possible to purchase a device called a 'converter', or sometimes a 'pump' that fits into pens that accommodate standard international short cartridges, and that can be filled using bottled ink.   Most major pen retailers sell standard international converters, as well as converters to fit pens that are designed for proprietary ink packaging.   Converters hold a bit more ink than standard international short cartridges, but the process of refilling can result in stained fingers (a point of pride among fountain pen fanatics!), but rubber gloves prevent that problem for those who are more fastidious.  The selection of bottled inks is even broader than the selection packaged in standard international short cartridges - AFAIK, every ink packaged in cartridges can also be purchased in a bottle, but there are probably five times as many more inks that are only available in bottles including some small boutique brands.  So what that means is that if your wife really likes Waternan ink, the option is there to use bottled Waterman ink in a converter. Alternatively, purchasing a converter opens the door to hundreds of other inks to choose from.  And while ink is actually very inexpensive, ink purchased in bottles is even less expensive that ink packaged in cartridges. 

Finally, let me point you to some suppliers.  First, pen kit suppliers often sell converters as accessories.  I know that PSI offers converters at two price points - I've used both, and I prefer the more expensive version, but I've had success with the cheaper model also.  

Second, for converters, cartridges and bottle inks, my suggestion is Goulet Pen Company, .https://www.gouletpens.com.  The founder and President, Brian Goulet, started out as a hobby pen turner.  While Goulet does carry some proprietary pens and cartridges, they don't carry Waterman products.  However, there are other very reputable suppliers on the internet - Dromgooles, Fountain Pen Hospital, Pen Chalet, Fahrney's Pens, Goldspot, etc.


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## duncsuss (Mar 21, 2022)

Further to Louie's excellent post: the plastic that ink cartridges are typically made from is not perfectly air/water tight, and over time the ink in them can degrade. Glass bottles are significantly better in this respect.

I find Schmidt cartridge-converters more reliable than the "no-name" varieties.

Of the "conservative/traditional" inks, Waterman Mysterious Blue is one of my favorite inks, although I just bought a bottle of Serene Blue to see how that compares. Pelikan 4001 Royal Blue is also excellent.

But the vast array of options is very enticing - Diamine, Sheaffer, Parker, Pilot, J Herbin, Noodlers, Oster ... there are hundreds, and there's a special kind of pleasure in seeing how one looks next to another. Which means that your wife needs more fountain pens so she can have several loaded at the same time.

Get busy making more


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## monophoto (Mar 22, 2022)

monophoto said:


> But that said, it is true that sometimes it takes a bit more force to install a cartridge.


Let me expand on that thought.  Cartridges are injection molded from a plastic; I'm not sure what plastic it is but it feels a bit like LDPE.   A quick investigation involving a very small and likely non-representative selection of cartridges disclosed that there are two ways that cartridges are sealed at the factory.  In some cases, the end of the cartridge is solid plastic, and the the  nipple on the pen section  has to actually poke a hole through that plastic.  It also appears that the molding process may set the stage for this penetration by leaving the plastic thinner at this point.

The other design appears to have a small glass or metal ball pressed into and occluding a channel molded into the end of the cartridge, and when the cartridge is attached to the section, the nipple forces that ball back into the main body of the cartridge.  This ball serves a secondary purpose as an agitator.  

For the pen to continue writing, the ink in the reservoir must always flow to the nib end when the pen is held nib-down for writing. As you deplete the ink in the pen, the surface tension in the very small amount of ink left in the reservoir can be strong enough to resist the weight of the ink, so the remaining ink forms a drop that can be trapped at the opposite end of the reservoir.  As a result, the pen may stop writing even if a small amount of ink is left in the cartridge.  The small agitator is heavy enough to break up that ink drop and allow the remaining ink to flow down to the nib. 

I mentioned that converters are a form of refillable cartridges.  Some fountain pen afficianados prefer instead to refill standard international short cartridges using a blunt syringe.  This can be done, but there is a potential issue - if the objective is to have refilled cartridges available on standby it is necessary to come up with a way to reseal cartridges after they has been refilled.  It is possible to buy small plastic or metal plugs on e-Bay that are intended to reseal the end of cartridges.  Another solution is to put a bead of hot-melt glue over the open end of cartridges to reseal them - the glue won't stick to the LDPE, but it will occlude the hole and can be easily popped off when the cartridge needs to be installed in a pen..


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## montmill (Mar 22, 2022)

Thank you for the information, it's very helpful. Another vortex to get sucked into. LOL
Is a converter fit for a Junior Gent rollerball transferrable to a similar Jr. series kit?


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## monophoto (Mar 22, 2022)

montmill said:


> Thank you for the information, it's very helpful. Another vortex to get sucked into. LOL
> Is a converter fit for a Junior Gent rollerball transferrable to a similar Jr. series kit?


Ed is the best guy to answer this question.

Schmidt is a German manufacturer of high-quality pen components - nibs, feeds, sections, converters, etc.  Their web site shows four varieties of converter - one is a screw-in converter that only fits pens with a threaded female coupling at the back of the section.  I've seen that on MontBlanc pens, but not on any kit pens.

The other three standard international converters plug fit onto the section, and seem to offer variations in style/quality  - two metal bands, one metal band or all plastic.

And the Schmidt documentation also implies that the differentiation between fountain pens and roller balls is limited to the feed and nib.

But the thing to be aware of is that most converters are physically longer than standard international short cartridges.  Typical modern converters have a piston mechanism that operates from a screw post on the back end of the converter, and that screw post makes the converter around an inch longer than a cartridge.  I have a J Herbin roller ball that accepts a standard international short cartridge.  I can plug a converter into the section, but body of the pen is too short and won't fit over the converter.  This pen was apparently intended to be used with the cap posted to add length and bulk to the body.

The possible exception is the 'aeromatic' converter.   These are basically rubber sacs that are housed in a metal sleeve with a mechanism on one side that can be pressed to force air out of the sac, and then draw ink in to replace it.  I've only seen these on cheap Chinese pens that are knockoff's of an venerable Parker design.

So based on this, I think that if you have a cartridge/converter fill roller ball pen that will accept a converter, that converter will also fit a Jr Gent fountain pen.  However, a converter from a Jr Gent fountain pan won't necessarily fit into a roller ball unless the body is long enough.

And you are so right - this is just another vortex!


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## Fine Engineer (Mar 22, 2022)

If I could just interject an experience I've had with converter vs. cartridges.  I have an inexpensive fountain pen, and I initially used the cartridges in it.  I don't use it all that often, so what happened is the cartridge ink would evaporate.  This left a residue in the feeder and the nib that needed to be cleaned by flushing with water in order to get it to flow ink again.  

I picked up a bottle of quality ink, and installed the converter just to see what the difference was, and found a couple of things. One was that high quality ink makes a big difference in how a pen operates (I know, kind of a 'duh' finding, but still..). The other was that even though the ink evaporated at a much slower rate, it could still form a block in the feeder. What I could do with the converter though is to hold the writing section over the ink bottle and push the old ink back into the bottle, then pull up a fresh load, and it completely flushed out the feeder and the nib, and it would write perfectly again.

I suspect that the cartridges that came with the pen were filled with cheap ink, so this was by no means a direct comparison, but the flushing capability of the converter seems like a significant advantage in terms of ink management.  Yes it takes some care to refill the pen without making a mess, but it is possible to do, just takes some work on the technique.


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## Bope (Mar 23, 2022)

montmill said:


> Thank you for the information, it's very helpful. Another vortex to get sucked into. LOL
> Is a converter fit for a Junior Gent rollerball transferrable to a similar Jr. series kit?


I have made Jr. George, Baron, Vertex Supreme and the Broadwell from PSI. They all take the standard international and all came with both a cartridge and a converter. There are some converters out there with a small nib on the screw mechanism. On some pens that makes them just a little too long. It is easy to grind off. 

Going to converters really opens your options for ink. When my daughter went down this rabbit hole we started at Anderson Pen. They have a lot of inks in sample sizes. Do searches for reviews of inks you are interested in. Just because it is a "good" ink doesn't mean it will always meet your needs. Things like dry time, bleeding, shimmer can very greatly over good inks. Look at some reviews and get some samples and start having fun. My daughter prints out her college homework just so she can do it with a fountain pen instead of doing it on the computer.


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## Martin G (Mar 23, 2022)

I have also noticed that with the Jr. series you may need to pull the spring out of the end of the body cap in order to fit some converters.  The spring is there to hold a rollerball refill in place and is not needed for the fountain pen version.


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## monophoto (Mar 23, 2022)

Martin G said:


> I have also noticed that with the Jr. series you may need to pull the spring out of the end of the body cap in order to fit some converters.  The spring is there to hold a rollerball refill in place and is not needed for the fountain pen version.


Yes - springs are not required on Fountain Pens.

Folks who prefer cartridges often find that pens that are designed to accommodate a standard international converter can actually hold two standard international cartridges within the body cavity, one in use and one as a spare.  And in the case of kit pens, its not a bit deal to make the body a few mm longer to make sure there is adequate storage space.

I generally prefer converters, but one of the frequent arguments against them is that they are less convenient for travel - its easier to transport spare cartridges than it is to transport a bottle of ink.  My solution to this is that when I travel, I take multiple pens, and make sure that their converters are all full before leaving home.


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