# Now I'm confused!!



## lkorn (Jan 25, 2005)

After trying to read and understand most of what has been posted here, I've got a few questions.  

1. Do all woods need a "sanding sealer" before sanding/finishing?
2. I've been using "Hut PPP" Brown, then white, the Crystal Coat, then "Shellawax" fiction finishes in the order staed above.  Is this the correct order, or should I use the crystal coat, THEN the two polishes? Do the bar polishes leave anything in or on the wood?
3. Is the Crystal coat a shellac formula that can also be used as a sanding sealer?
4. How about Mylands paste wax after all this?
5. I use MM just before polishing, should I be using MM between polishing steps?

Inquiring minds want to know!


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## dougle40 (Jan 25, 2005)

I've tried the Hut bars and IMHO I don't like them at all . I never use a sealer to finish a pen (unless it's a very soft or punky wood , then I'll use CA to stabilize it) . After sanding to 1500 I simply use 1 or 2 coats of Turners Polish and 1 coat of paste wax .
I've used Turners Polish on everything from wood to antler to Corian and the finish is always great .


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## Fred in NC (Jan 25, 2005)

Aren't Crystal Coat and Shellawax about the same thing?  Why use both?

I don't use the PPP either.


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## DCBluesman (Jan 25, 2005)

Larry, you'll get as many answers to your questions as you want and most of them will differ.  In simple terms, trying to leave my bias out:

1) No.  Not all woods need sealing.  Many very dense, closed pore, closed grain and or oily woods will actually reject sealing.

2) Hut brown and white both have polishing crystals in them and should be used prior to applying your finish of choice.  Remember to wipe the piece down after each bar.  

3) Crystal Coat and the other friction finishes can definitely be used as sanding sealer.

4) Any good paster wax will add a nice finish to your pen.  Most waxes are good protectants but wear off fairly quickly.  All you need to do is wax your pen much as you wax your fine wood furniture (or the way we use to wax our cars).

5) Micro-mesh is primarily used for creating the smooth surface to begin applying finish.  Between each major step of your finishing process, a quick scuffing with micro-mesh will create a better bonding surface for the next application.  You do not need to go through all of the grits for this.

Hopefully this helps.  I also hope I have induced too much bias.


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## Gary (Jan 25, 2005)

Lou, that's a nice summary well written.


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## lkorn (Jan 25, 2005)

Wipe Down between bars?  Please explain this.  
Also, as Fred asked, are Crystal Coat and Shellawax similar enough to be interchangeable, or are they different enough to be used in conjunction with each other?   How many coats of each?

Finally, before the paste wax, is this where the CA, CA/BLO, Enduro, Deft, etc?

2) Hut brown and white both have polishing crystals in them and should be used prior to applying your finish of choice.  Remember to wipe the piece down after each bar.


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## Fred in NC (Jan 25, 2005)

Larry, Crystal Coat and Shellawax are both shellac based friction polishes.  One is all that is needed.  Since you have them might as well use them up.  Crystal Coat might be better if you use it as a sanding sealer.


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## DCBluesman (Jan 25, 2005)

> _Originally posted by lkorn_
> <br />Wipe Down between bars?  Please explain this.
> Also, as Fred asked, are Crystal Coat and Shellawax similar enough to be interchangeable, or are they different enough to be used in conjunction with each other?   How many coats of each?
> 
> Finally, before the paste wax, is this where the CA, CA/BLO, Enduro, Deft, etc?



Between the Hut bars, wipe the blank with a clean cloth to remove the coarser residue.

Sealing you wood with Shellawax or Crystal Coat should only require one coat.

Wax goes on top of whichever finish you use.


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## RussFairfield (Jan 25, 2005)

I am always confused by some of the things that penturners do with finishes because there are a few things that defy logic.

PPP are sticks of a carnauba wax that has been slightly softened with the addition of paraffin, and with tripoli and white diamond abrasives in them. Using them leaves a wax finish on the wood. I cannot understand why anyone would then put a shellac over the wax. When doing this, the wax acts as a plasticiser for the shellac, and the shellac will be softer than it would be in a purer state; unless, they are generating enough heat to melt the Carnauba and brink it up to the surface on top of the shellac. I am wondering if this is the reason why so many folks complain that shellac is too soft a finish for a pen. The reality is that shellac should be almost comparable to using a lacquer on a pen.


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## wayneis (Jan 25, 2005)

Larry,

It all just depends on what you are going to use as your final finish after you turn your wax sticks into candles like most have done.  If you use CA or one of the Poly's or whatever then the process and the products will differ.  I use Enduro Poly and use several coats of sanding sealer sanding to 12,000 before and after the SS and then several coats of Enduro and sand with micro mesh again to 12,000.  If you use the right Poly it will give as long lasting finish as CA or lacqure but some of the everyday Poly's will give a softer finish that is not a real good finish for pens.

Wayne


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## lkorn (Jan 26, 2005)

Russ,
As a newcomer, I use what the Woodcraft store recommended.  I'm here looking for better information.  When using the PPP bars they do in fact impart a nice polish to the wood.  Then, when using either the Crystal Coat of Shellawax, I generate enough friction to create 'Smoke' off the wood generating enough heat to burn fingers that slip off the side of the applicator pads.   So does this "Melt" the Carnuba thereby bringing it to the surface and therefore requiring no further waxing?




> _Originally posted by RussFairfield_
> <br />I am always confused by some of the things that penturners do with finishes because there are a few things that defy logic.
> 
> PPP are sticks of a carnauba wax that has been slightly softened with the addition of paraffin, and with tripoli and white diamond abrasives in them. Using them leaves a wax finish on the wood. I cannot understand why anyone would then put a shellac over the wax. When doing this, the wax acts as a plasticiser for the shellac, and the shellac will be softer than it would be in a purer state; unless, they are generating enough heat to melt the Carnauba and brink it up to the surface on top of the shellac. I am wondering if this is the reason why so many folks complain that shellac is too soft a finish for a pen. The reality is that shellac should be almost comparable to using a lacquer on a pen.


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