# Spray on Lacquer



## Bob Kardell (Mar 1, 2019)

I made some pens over the holidays including some rosewood, Blackwood and oak barrels.   I sanded then DNA then sanding sealer.

I tried spray lacquer for the first time and loved the ease and no smell compared to CA.

But about a week ago my Blackwood which became my everyday pen started cracking and peeling.

I had noticed on another pen I engraved around the letters the finish had peeled a bit as well.

I don’t know about using it again, but has anyone else had peeling issues with spray lacquer?

Is wipe on different?

Would poly peel?  Spray or wipe on?

Thanks for any insight or help!

Bob




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## jttheclockman (Mar 1, 2019)

Bob can you tell us a little more about what woods using, did you use anything under it, did you clean the blank with acetone or anything if it was an oily wood. How many coats?? What brand of lacquer?? Lacquer needs an undercoat of dewaxed shellac for better adhesion. Oily woods will have an ill effect with many finishes including poly. Does not matter if sprayed, dipped, or brushed. There are different types of lacquer. I see you used DNA, that will not clean oily woods such as rosewoods of the oil. You are better with acetone or lacquer thinner.


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## Wildman (Mar 2, 2019)

Feel same way as John T, but have stopped using  lacquer sanding sealer.  Shellac just a better choice to seal and help build finish or reduce number of coats.  Many woods are called Blackwood but belong in other families of wood too and not always black. 

Understand you sprayed and sometimes that might be a problem whether used rattle can or spray equipment.  Lacquer has to have ideal temperatures and relative humidity plus allowed time to fully cure.  

I like and use cellulose lacquer, if want to seal the wood will use thinned lacquer as a sealer. Lacquer sanding sealers contain soap and other stuff and too many coats actually sofeten the final finish. See nice article.

Nice article:
How to Use Wood Sealers | Grain Fillers | Woodworking


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## Dalecamino (Mar 2, 2019)

I don't like posting my photos in others threads. But sometimes I do when I think it will help someone. This is one of those times. I made this pen early in my membership on the IAP. Before I finally mastered CA finishing. I used Deft Laquer. Here is a link to the thread. Hope it helps.
http://www.penturners.org/forum/f13/laquered-sanded-rosewood-burl-finally-8711/


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## Bob Kardell (Mar 2, 2019)

I will post a photo if it helps.

I apologize for not knowing more about the Blackwood - it was labeled diamond cut Blackwood and nothing else - very pretty wood.  The photo is of the Blackwood.

The other woods were an Indian Rosewood and a Jack Daniels Oak Barrel stave.

I didn’t use anything other what I had mentioned which is what is normally do for a pen before A CA finish - DNA and  Mylands sanding sealer.




The spray on lacquer was from menards - Watco, rattle can, satin finish...

Can you tell me more about dewaxed shellac?  

Do you think the rosewood was too oily?

Given the fact that it failed on different types of wood I was taking it as user error or bad lacquer.




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## bsshog40 (Mar 2, 2019)

I've used lacquer in the past on some projects. I don't use sanding sealer under lacquer because sanding sealer is too soft. Sanding sealer is designed to fill porous woods. With it being so soft and then adding a hardened finish on it like lacquer will also cause the finish to crack. I have found that poly will work better over sanding sealer.


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## jttheclockman (Mar 2, 2019)

Hello again Bob,

What is troubling me is this statement::

I tried spray lacquer for the first time and loved the ease and no smell compared to CA.



Lacquer by nature is a stronger odor by 100 times more than CA maybe a bit exaggerating but if you are using waterbased than no it is not. Now I know Watco has changed packaging and do not know if with that they changed formulas. But if you are using the white and tan can with the Satin written in a blue ribbon then you need to check the date on these cans. As with all rattle cans you do need to shake those for at least 2 minutes. They are also temp sensitive. Not below 50 and not above 90 and not humid. 

Shellac is a better choice for undercoating as I mentioned and here is what I use and you can find in spray cans as well. 
www.woodcraft.com/products/sealcoat-universal-sanding-sealer-quart

Yes rosewood is one of the oilest woods and that blackwood is too. Need to wipe down with acetone or lacquer thinner. DNA has too much water. Need to be sure the wipe down is dry as well as the shellac. Use a clean dry cloth and not one of those microfiber cloths. That is a no-no in woodworking. That barrel stave blank definetly needs to be sealed because of the liquor content. Alcohol and lacquer do not mix well. You do not say how many coats you are using. Too many is not good and too little is not either. Spraying technique is important too. read instructions on can.

If all else fails try poly but still undercoat it.


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## Bob Kardell (Mar 4, 2019)

Thanks!  I will let you know how the next round goes!


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## duncsuss (Mar 4, 2019)

jttheclockman said:


> Alcohol and lacquer do not mix well.



It is my understanding that alcohol and shellac mix even worse -- alchohol being the solvent used when mixing shellac.

Lacquer is generally not soluble in alcohol -- though if it's trapped under the lacquer film it will most likely cause trouble.


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## jttheclockman (Mar 4, 2019)

Well then he needs another method to seal if he is not using CA. Most people CA those blanks. Alcohol will definitely ruin a lacquer finish. Have to say I never tried lacquer over CA. Just a guess but doesn't sound compatible. Just mau have to suck it up with those blanks and go all CA.


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## jttheclockman (Mar 4, 2019)

Bob Kardell said:


> Thanks!  I will let you know how the next round goes!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Penturners.org mobile app


 Let us know what???


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## Bob Kardell (Mar 4, 2019)

How it turns out is what I meant - I was going to try it again with shellac - only I cant get in the garage as we aren’t breaking into double digits for a while...

But thanks again for the suggestions..


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## jttheclockman (Mar 4, 2019)

Bob Kardell said:


> How it turns out is what I meant - I was going to try it again with shellac - only I cant get in the garage as we aren’t breaking into double digits for a while...
> 
> But thanks again for the suggestions..
> 
> ...



What about the lacquer??  You said it did not smell as bad as CA. Can not be if it is nitro lacquer. You need to check that lacquer for age and if you stored it out in the shed where it is that cold it probably is bad. Finishes can not endure extreme temps. No matter if you are applying or it is just sitting there.


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## Bob Kardell (Mar 4, 2019)

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## jttheclockman (Mar 4, 2019)

Bob Kardell said:


> View attachment 185880
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Penturners.org mobile app



That is the new packaging so we know the can is this past year. I looked at the ingrediants and it looks like they kept it the same. Maybe the ratio is different to meet guidelines. Something just did not seem right by your comments so I wish you the best of luck Maybe you would want to do a test piece before committing to pens so you do not have to sand back if it fails. good luck.



www.homedepot.com/p/Watco-11-25-oz-Clear-Satin-Lacquer-Wood-Finish-Spray-6-Pack-63281/204787358


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## Wildman (Mar 5, 2019)

Think all versions of the product contain certain amount of nitrocellulose, so could very well not what you assoicate with nitro smell. Guess need a chemistry degree to figure out how they reduced the smell. Still might use a face mask with proper filter when using the stuff.  What hasn't change is proper temp to use the stuff, cold weather definitely a no-no!

https://www.rustoleum.com/MSDS/ENGLISH/63081.pdf

https://www.rustoleum.com/MSDS/ENGLISH/63181.pdf

https://www.rustoleum.com/MSDS/ENGLISH/63281.pdf

https://www.rustoleum.com/MSDS/ENGLISH/321534.pdf


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## jttheclockman (Mar 5, 2019)

Wildman said:


> Think all versions of the product contain certain amount of nitrocellulose, so could very well not what you assoicate with nitro smell. Guess need a chemistry degree to figure out how they reduced the smell. Still might use a face mask with proper filter when using the stuff.  What hasn't change is proper temp to use the stuff, cold weather definitely a no-no!
> 
> https://www.rustoleum.com/MSDS/ENGLISH/63081.pdf
> 
> ...



I use the stuff all the time and the fumes are strong as well as toxic and dangerous near flames. I have not gotten any of the new cans because most Walmarts were selling the old cans at a reduced price so I am covered for a long time. But the link from Home Depot I shown had the same charts and that was one reason I posted the link. Need to pay attention to them. My latest pen stand and pen box I entered in the contest was finished with the Watco lacquer. I lucked out with this crazy winter weather in NJ this year I had gotten a couple days of 60 degree weather in middle of Jan so sprayed outside. Even still I use a mask spraying that stuff. I will need to try a can of the new stuff and see if there is a reduction in fumes. I doubt it because they give the same warnings. If it was waterbased I can see it because I use that too and hardly any smell from that. But from label it would have said and the SDS charts said not.


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## MDWine (Mar 6, 2019)

I use DEFT spray lacquer exclusively.  I spray 5 to 8 coats over as many days, some micromesh in between.  It is a gently deliberate process for me, and it takes time.  I have not had any of them peel or crack, at least not yet!  I don't care for a CA finish and prefer the warmth of the lacquer.


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## Wildman (Mar 6, 2019)

Started out using Deft brushing & spray can lacquer since no longer available in stores here have switch to Watco brush & spray can.  Use a 3M filtered face mask whenever use lacquer.  I like the stuff, have brushed, dipped, sprayed and wiped on lacquer on lot of my woodturnings including pens.  I too am bothered by the smell of the stuff!  

Know Eagle talked about using waterbased/borne lacquers on his pens; he ordered the stuff just cannot remember brand or from where. The one pen he posted using the stuff looked like a matt finish. 

There are a lot more brand named water based/borne lacquers out there today but cannot buy them in my town.  Since can buy several brands of water based poly, see no reason to order WB lacquer.  If can walk in a store and buy WB lacquer give it a try and let us know what you thnk.  Think recoat times going to be about same as WB poly.  WB lacquer will not impart amber hue, but might want to use your face mask.


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## jttheclockman (Mar 6, 2019)

Wildman said:


> Started out using Deft brushing & spray can lacquer since no longer available in stores here have switch to Watco brush & spray can.  Use a 3M filtered face mask whenever use lacquer.  I like the stuff, have brushed, dipped, sprayed and wiped on lacquer on lot of my woodturnings including pens.  I too am bothered by the smell of the stuff!
> 
> Know Eagle talked about using waterbased/borne lacquers on his pens; he ordered the stuff just cannot remember brand or from where. The one pen he posted using the stuff looked like a matt finish.
> 
> There are a lot more brand named water based/borne lacquers out there today but cannot buy them in my town.  Since can buy several brands of water based poly, see no reason to order WB lacquer.  If can walk in a store and buy WB lacquer give it a try and let us know what you thnk.  Think recoat times going to be about same as WB poly.  WB lacquer will not impart amber hue, but might want to use your face mask.



I too use to use Deft all the time but hard to find these days so Watco it became and when they were selling them out I thought for sure they too were going away but looks like all they did was change packaging. But as I said I do not know for sure if they changed formulas. I know it is not waterbased from the SDS sheet. Waterbased poly is more easily found than lacquers. I get mine from Jeff Jewitt. But it is the one where I have to use my HVLP spray gun. I use that when I do larger projects. That stuff looks just like the Nitro when dried and clean up is easy. The smell is less but yes it is always a good idea to wear a mask because of the spray. Lacquer is a product that really needs to be done in a day and one coat after the other. Thus the no need for sanding. I love the look of lacquer and its clarity and depth you get. I have used it on a pen before but have never put it through alot of use so do not know how well it would stand up tp abuse.


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