# HELP blank fused to bit



## artmakersworlds (Apr 10, 2017)

Ok, still learning here.  My last order included some plastic blanks, lava bright, and a set of Cortona pens with stylus.

First time with plastic blanks for me.
So went to drill one of the blanks.  Cut it to size, got it all set up, 
drilled fast and easy.  About half way I pulled out the bit, pulled off all the shavings, went in again, and ALMOST to the end, the bit seized up inside the blank.  It's like the plastic melted and fused with the bit.
It stopped my lathe!   I tried to manually turn the bit end in reverse.  No way.   Took it all off.  Put a clamp around the blank, put the drill bit into my home hand drill and again tried reverse.  It will not budge.   And no hand tool I own will grip the bit tight enough.  I don't want to gouge up the bit.

WHAT can I do to remedy this situation???? 

Yea in hindsight… and lesson learned here, go in and out frequently!  
Meanwhile how in blazes do I get the blank OFF my bit, hopefully without ruining one or both pieces?


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## mbroberg (Apr 10, 2017)

artmakersworlds said:


> Ok, still learning here.  My last order included some plastic blanks, lava bright, and a set of Cortona pens with stylus.
> 
> First time with plastic blanks for me.
> So went to drill one of the blanks.  Cut it to size, got it all set up,
> ...



Heat is NOT your friend, especially when drilling plastic.  Go as slow as you can go.  Clear the shavings frequently.  Spray the inside of the blank with water or DNA each time you clear the bit.  Soak a paper towel with DNA and grasp you bit with it to cool it off each time you clear the shavings.  

I don't know the best way to get your bit out of your blank.  Some say freeze it, others say heat it.  I'm sure you will get some good answers.


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## More4dan (Apr 10, 2017)

I've had this happen and was able to work the bit out with grunts and patience.  I pulled back with the tail stock while turning the blank back and forth until it gave up the bit.  Typically the hole will be oversized when and if you get the bit out.  In hind sight I probably should have just cracked it off the bit with a hammer. 

I did learn discipline though to back out every 3-4 turns of the tailstock. Fighting to get that bit out for 30 minutes will make sure the lesson is ingrained in your soul. And after the 3rd and 4th time you'll realize you better do it Every Time!!!

Good luck!  

P.S.  I was able to save several blanks.   Also it's a good idea to drill the blank to depth and then cut to length. It saves an occasional blowout. 

Danny


Sent from my iPhone using Penturners.org mobile app


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## RSQWhite (Apr 10, 2017)

One thing you might try grip the bit with vice grips place the blank in a  vice. Use a propane torch to slowly heat the drill bit, at the same time try to turn the the bit backwards. Heat is probably what stuck the bit in the first place so maybe heat will un stick it. The blank is probably ruined and too much heat will definitely ruin it. I have removed brass pen tubes that weren't inserted into the blank all the way before the glue set up with a slight variation of this method. 


Sent from my iPad using Penturners.org mobile app


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## artmakersworlds (Apr 10, 2017)

Need to get more vice grips.  Every set I own right now is in use gripping something somewhere.  Need more anyway.   
Don't own a torch.  Was wondering if hot water, then cold might do it.  Which begs the question, how hot can this plastic take?   I work with polymer clay a lot and it cures at only 265.  Scorches and burns not much hotter than that.  Hate to put this thing in boiling water…. yea well, the blank may be a goner.  I'll save that for last.  

Darn it all.  (That's tame.  OH the cussin earlier.  Shees.)


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## BeeAMaker (Apr 10, 2017)

I had this happen once, second plastic blank I believe.
Now, I keep the RPMs below 15K (usually 700 - 1K) I will do 3 to 4 cranks in then back out, clear the bit, repeat. THe shavings should exit just as fast as you enter - if not then back out and clear the bit. If you hear squealing, clear the bit and slow the RPMs.

I have tried water as a lub, doesn't seem to make a difference to me, Haven't tried DNA, works good for taping aluminum, so makes sence it might work good.


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## campzeke (Apr 10, 2017)

I drill all of my blanks on my drill press and have never had this problem. I drill at about 700 RPM and back the bit out about every 1/4". Now of course having said that I will probably have a problem with the next 20 - 30 blanks I drill. Hope this helps.


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## Skie_M (Apr 10, 2017)

Hard to believe that nobody here mentioned sharpening your bits to keep this from happening frequently.


Put the bit and blank into a container of ice-water to cool it rapidly ... the metal should be nice and cold ...

Then hold just the blank under hot running water (water at the boil only reaches 212 degrees Fahrenheit, so shouldn't be a problem).

If you do these steps properly and quickly enough (without getting hot water on the metal drill bit), then the cooled bit should slip out of the expanding plastic blank fairl easily.  If it still seems a bit stuck, then do it again and wrap the bit in a bit of leather or rubber and grip it with pliers or vice-grips, and hold the blank body in a vice as you twist it counterclockwise to remove it.


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## jttheclockman (Apr 10, 2017)

mbroberg said:


> artmakersworlds said:
> 
> 
> > Ok, still learning here.  My last order included some plastic blanks, lava bright, and a set of Cortona pens with stylus.
> ...




Boy did I get a ration of poop when I suggested this a few times here and now I do not even bring it up any more. I do this all the time and have not had anything catch on fire as was suggested over and over and over again. The flash point numbers were brought up. Melting points for metal and plastics, rags and paper towels were brought up. I think the authorities were even notified. :biggrin:

I would put both blank and bit in the freezer and it will break free. It will also break free if you let it cool on its own. May take some wiggling back and forth. It is not for a lack of sharp bit that this happened, it is because of the heat and drilling too fast and too much at one time. Some materials are more prone to this than others. But you are getting another lesson to put in your play book.  Good luck.


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## CREID (Apr 10, 2017)

jttheclockman said:


> mbroberg said:
> 
> 
> > artmakersworlds said:
> ...


Ya but JT, it is in the IAP handbook to give you poop. :biggrin:


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## Edgar (Apr 10, 2017)

I don't know how much the blank cost, but I believe that lava bright blanks generally cost about $3-$4. I hate to throw money away, but my time is also valuable. If you can't get it loose in a few minutes using some of these ideas, my suggestion would be to use a hammer to separate it from the bit & keep the pieces for possible casting material down the road. 

I know it's frustrating, but IMHO, it just isn't worth a lot of time trying to salvage a relatively inexpensive blank that is easily replaceable. Now if it was a rare or expensive blank, that would be another story.


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## jttheclockman (Apr 10, 2017)

CREID said:


> jttheclockman said:
> 
> 
> > mbroberg said:
> ...



I know Curt and I am trying to get ahold of that handbook. Like to edit a few pages. :biggrin:


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## jttheclockman (Apr 10, 2017)

Edgar said:


> I don't know how much the blank cost, but I believe that lava bright blanks generally cost about $3-$4. I hate to throw money away, but my time is also valuable. If you can't get it loose in a few minutes using some of these ideas, my suggestion would be to use a hammer to separate it from the bit & keep the pieces for possible casting material down the road.
> 
> I know it's frustrating, but IMHO, it just isn't worth a lot of time trying to salvage a relatively inexpensive blank that is easily replaceable. Now if it was a rare or expensive blank, that would be another story.




It is rare Edgar but I will have to disagree with this thinking. I believe if it is a blank that is not costly, it is the one to try to figure out what can be done to free this bit up so that if it happens on a more expensive blank such as a segmented blank the OP has some sort of idea what to give a try. Just playing devils advocate:devil::devil::devil:


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## Edgar (Apr 10, 2017)

Good point, JT. I'm not suggesting that the OP shouldn't try to free it up, I'm just saying that I wouldn't spend a lot of time on it. I think the more valuable lesson is to understand why it happened & develop techniques to avoid it happening again. Great suggestions have already been offered for that: sharp bit, slow speed, slow feed, no more than 1/4" at a time & keep it cool.


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## Skie_M (Apr 11, 2017)

jttheclockman said:


> CREID said:
> 
> 
> > jttheclockman said:
> ...



Seriously, JT ... why would you want everybody to give you MORE POOP???  :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:


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## cleve (Apr 11, 2017)

Bite the bullet , use a nut cracker (mechanic's use these to break rusted on nuts) then break the blank then heat up the drill bit then use a brass wire wheel on your drill and clean up the bit . Move on and learn from your mistakes.


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## jttheclockman (Apr 11, 2017)

cleve said:


> Bite the bullet , use a nut cracker (mechanic's use these to break rusted on nuts) then break the blank then heat up the drill bit then use a brass wire wheel on your drill and clean up the bit . Move on and learn from your mistakes.




There would be a lot of people here throwing money away if they do not try to fix their mistakes. Can not hurt anything to give things a try. As I said for a beginner it is a learning experience all around. Unless they are on a strict time schedule then time is money but I am never in a rush. I do not get the throw it away mentality. That sort of the society we live in now throw it away.


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## Skie_M (Apr 11, 2017)

Hmm .. I dunno bout you guys, but I have more than 1 set of drill bits, aside from the specialty sizes required for certain pen kits, like the metric stuff, and even then I have doubles of most of those.

It was always a good idea, for me, to have a spare bit to use before I got my Drill Doctor.


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## BeeAMaker (Apr 11, 2017)

jttheclockman said:


> cleve said:
> 
> 
> > Bite the bullet , use a nut cracker (mechanic's use these to break rusted on nuts) then break the blank then heat up the drill bit then use a brass wire wheel on your drill and clean up the bit . Move on and learn from your mistakes.
> ...



I understand where your coming from, me being a maker I certainly do not like throwing things away. But it all depends on the individuals situation. My time is very valuable to me and in very short supply. If I spend an hour getting a bit unstuck is an hour I could have spent on something else that would net me a profit. Therefore a $3 blank could cost me $50+. If I can quickly save the blank I will, but if it goes beyond 5-10 min I send Mr Stanly Hammer to take care of it. :wink: In some cases, "Throw it away" is a viable suggestion.
(no to mention it is more plastic in the land fill)

The more important aspect of it all is _*learning *_after the first time so it does not happen again. I've had it happen only once, and that will be the last time it happens (knock on wood). Therefore only costing me time and/or money just once and is now irrelevant.
:smile-big:


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## Eldermike (Apr 11, 2017)

I had this happen as well.   Slow and steady with frequent clean out on acrylic. Heat is never a friend to the blank or the drill bit.  I ended up cracking the blank to release the bit but it was trashed in the process.  


Sent from my iPhone using Penturners.org mobile app


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## artmakersworlds (Apr 11, 2017)

Wow you guys are great.  I was thinking about this all night, and decided to try ice, then hot and see.   I need to locate (or probably buy a new) vice grip.  So later today…

Now… I have to ask.  WHAT is DNA you keep talking about.   I typed in google DNA as a lubricant and well… I may as well have been looking up porn.  Lol.  Surely you don't mean THAAAT do you???? hahahaha. 

Someone mentioned keeping the bit sharp.  This was the very first time it was used.  Just got it with the fancy pens I bought.  SO doubt it was that.    I went too fast, too long and yea… well.  Note to self. Don't do THAT again!!!!


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## BeeAMaker (Apr 11, 2017)

artmakersworlds said:


> Wow you guys are great.  I was thinking about this all night, and decided to try ice, then hot and see.   I need to locate (or probably buy a new) vice grip.  So later today…
> 
> Now… I have to ask.  WHAT is DNA you keep talking about.   I typed in google DNA as a lubricant and well… I may as well have been looking up porn.  Lol.  Surely you don't mean THAAAT do you???? hahahaha.



Well if your bit is stuck - I guess it's the same thing, you are F.... either way :tongue: LOL

DNA = Denatured Alcohol (Or double helix, depending on your profession)


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## artmakersworlds (Apr 11, 2017)

OMG…. ok, DNA.   I never would have used those initials for De Natured Alcohol.   (the other stuff I know well actually.)

I can see that as a coolant but doubt it will do any good now.

I'll give the ice/heat a try later.  Vice grips… need vice grips.


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## Edgar (Apr 11, 2017)

Here's a link to most of the acronyms & abbreviations that you'll run into around here. 

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f19/glossary-acronyms-short-names-35262/


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## artmakersworlds (Apr 11, 2017)

OH that's awesome!  Got it bookmarked.

Now am I the only person left on the planet who can still type out full words?
WTF?   LOL.   ROFLMFAO


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## leehljp (Apr 11, 2017)

artmakersworlds said:


> OH that's awesome!  Got it bookmarked.
> 
> Now am I the only person left on the planet who can still type out full words?
> WTF?   LOL.   ROFLMFAO



Typically, I write the words out the first time in a sentence or paragraph with the abbreviation/acronym in parentheses immediately after, and then use the abbreviation/acronym any time after that. It helps in bringing people "not on the same page" up to speed. I'm not a "teacher", but I have had tons of experience in bringing team members up to speed. This helps everyone.


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## jttheclockman (Apr 11, 2017)

BeeAMaker said:


> jttheclockman said:
> 
> 
> > cleve said:
> ...




Man you left yourself open to a whole mess Glenn. First off it will happen again to you. Never say never. Second I feel real sorry for you if every hour of your life has a $$$$ sign attached to it. This will change. I can tell you are a youngin. To me I love challenges. I will be as stubborn as possible to get that bit unstuck if it takes a week to do it. I have no dead lines and will keep it that way. Retired and enjoying life.


If he really does not care about the blank then I suggest put the blank in a vice and put a 1/2" drill motor on the bit and spin it backwards and I bet it comes free. Trying to do it by hand can not get enough torque on it.


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## duncsuss (Apr 11, 2017)

When this happened to me, I chose to leave the drill bit embedded in the acrylic blank and keep the whole thing nearby as a reminder to keep the bit cool when drilling.

I currently use automatic transmission fluid (the red stuff) to lubricate drill bits, taps and dies. I read about it on one of the machinists sites, and it works for me.


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## Dale Allen (Apr 11, 2017)

I'll admit that this happened to me twice.  First time I destroyed the blank with a hammer and the bit was fine.  Second time I got stubborn and worked until I got it removed.
However, after examining the blank it was obvious the hole was way too big and it was not usable anyway.:frown:
My solution is to use spray olive oil and also cool the bit often using the shop vacuum.  Pulling the air across both the bit and blank quickly cools it down.


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## BeeAMaker (Apr 11, 2017)

jttheclockman said:


> Man you left yourself open to a whole mess Glenn. First off it will happen again to you.



Your probably right there, but I like to stay positive. Telling my self it won't happen again sure keeps me on my toes to make sure it doesn't. I believe that most accidents happen because someone isn't paying attention.



> Second I feel real sorry for you if every hour of your life has a $$$$ sign attached to it. This will change. I can tell you are a youngin.


I stated that my time is very valuable to me, it is your assumption that every hour must have a $$$ attached to it. My comment was just an example. Let me put it in a different perspective. I would much rather be home on time having dinner with my wife, than stuck in my shop because i wasn't paying attention and melted a drill bit into a $3 piece of plastic. 

I have about 10 years to retire, so no - I am no spring chicken, but I didn't play marbles with Mosses either. 



> To me I love challenges. I will be as stubborn as possible to get that bit unstuck if it takes a week to do it. I have no dead lines and will keep it that way. Retired and enjoying life.



It is all about current situations. I'm sure there would be times that I would try to save the blank vs destroying it. It just all depends on the situation at hand - that's all I'm trying to say. The more view points the reader has the better assessment they can make in their specific situation.


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## artmakersworlds (Apr 11, 2017)

Ok, update… 
NO it's still not out.   BUT I did get a little bit of movement finally.  About maybe an 8th of a turn.
Can't get anything down in there.  Semi melted plastic ribbons completely filling any voids.

I cooled the whole thing, just outside air, 40s ish.  Then poured hot water over the plastic.

Now no motor I own will budge this.  Not my drill, not the lathe.  
I put tape around the drill bit before the water bath as suggested to keep from gouging up the bit.   yea well the vice grip did a dandy job of removing the tape.  So much for that idea.
IN fact this vice grip will NOT grip tight enough.  Damn bit just spins inside the tool.

SO… I put it back in the drill.  Usually hand tightening the key is good enough but I went down on it with pliars.   THEN put the vice grip around the nose of the drill. More surface area for it to hold onto.   With a few hot water baths I started to see some movement, but I still can't get a full turn, just a little bit of back and forth.   So still hopeful I can save my blank.
And even if the resulting hole is too big for my pen, I can still turn it and do something else with it.  Maybe a lamp pull or pair of them or something.   It's totally useless once I go at it with a hammer.  

Also the vice grip I bought is crap.  It's going back tomorrow.  I walked into Ace hardware and right in front was a clearance table with a vice grip for less than 5 bucks.  I should have gone and looked at what else they have.  But no, impluse buy there.
Now I know why they were on sale.  Cheap garbage.  Yea that's going back.   I don't need a paperweight.

My neighbor is usually out in his shop late.  Just shot him an email.  I THINK he might have a good solid table vice.  Not sure if it will be able to grab a drill bit tight enough but if he's willing I'll work on it some more tonight.

Boy this is one mistake I don't EVER want to repeat.   Maybe next time, besides 
1.  Slow down
2.  Short plunges and come out, CHECK the bit for heat.
3.  For longer pen tubes like the one I'm doing, maybe only drill half way in, turn the blank around and go in from the other end.  SLOW SLOW SLOW.


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## jttheclockman (Apr 11, 2017)

If he has a vice, put the blank in the vice. Protect the blank so the teeth of the vice does not booger up the blank. What the vice will do is keep the blank from spinning. No need to clamp too tight. Put the drill motor back on the bit and forward and reverse it. (Like rocking a car out of a snow pile)  You said there was some movement so it should start to spin. Do not keep the motor stalled it will burn up the motor. I am counting on you Don't make me come down there.


Old thread


www.penturners.org/forum/f14/how-unstick-drill-bit-acrylic-blank-55361/


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## CREID (Apr 11, 2017)

Of course he has a vice. Everybody has at least one. I have many but because this is a family site I can't go into them right now.


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## BeeAMaker (Apr 11, 2017)

CREID said:


> Of course he has a vice. Everybody has at least one. I have many but because this is a family site I can't go into them right now.



Cheetos Cheese puffs. :hypnotized:


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## BeeAMaker (Apr 11, 2017)

If you get it out and the hole is too big, just get a pen with a bigger tube and drill it out to that size.


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## artmakersworlds (Apr 11, 2017)

jttheclockman said:


> If he has a vice, put the blank in the vice. Protect the blank so the teeth of the vice does not booger up the blank. What the vice will do is keep the blank from spinning. No need to clamp too tight. Put the drill motor back on the bit and forward and reverse it. (Like rocking a car out of a snow pile)  You said there was some movement so it should start to spin. Do not keep the motor stalled it will burn up the motor. I am counting on you Don't make me come down there.
> 
> 
> Old thread
> ...



NO you don't understand.   I have a CLAMP around the blank.  That holds it just fine.   NOTHING will grip the smooth round end of the drill bit.   Not the drill, not a vice grip.  Nothing will turn it either.   I finally used the vice grip around the drill itself just to hold it while I manually tried to wiggle the thing. The drill is what's holding onto the bit.


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## artmakersworlds (Apr 11, 2017)

Now….  WOOT WOOT!!!!!!  HAPPY DANCE TIME!

<<<<<   I GOT IT OUT   >>>>>

My neighbor is busy, talking about meeting tomorrow, so every so often I'd get up and go yank at this gizmo a few times.   Well after it all cooled from my last hot water attempt, it seemed to twist easier.  I finally got it to make one full turn.  Then another.   Finally!!!! 
And oh does it ever smell like burnt plastic.  Wow.  Fast for turning, SLOW for plastic blank drilling.  I won't soon forget this lesson.

So.. next time out there, it's only got less than an inch to go.  I'll hit it from the undrilled end.  should eliminate the chances of blow out too.   Won't know how badly expanded my hole is till next time in the shop.  Does't matter.  Either get another pen or make something else.  I saved the blank though. YEA!


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## CREID (Apr 11, 2017)

artmakersworlds said:


> Now….  WOOT WOOT!!!!!!  HAPPY DANCE TIME!
> 
> <<<<<   I GOT IT OUT   >>>>>
> 
> ...


Were going to need video of the happy dance.
:biggrin:


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## artmakersworlds (Apr 11, 2017)




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## 1080Wayne (Apr 12, 2017)

Drilling from both ends doesn`t always result in an exact meeting of the holes .


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## Skie_M (Apr 12, 2017)

220 grit sandpaper wrapped round the drill bit shank ... then into the drill chuck and tighten her down real good.   Remember for next time.

If you gall the bit with something, you'll want to remove the raised ridges .... chuck the bit BACKWARDS (sharp end goes into the drill chuck) and spin the bit as you sand the exposed tail of the bit smooth again.


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## artmakersworlds (Apr 12, 2017)

Skie_M said:


> 220 grit sandpaper wrapped round the drill bit shank ... then into the drill chuck and tighten her down real good.   Remember for next time.
> 
> If you gall the bit with something, you'll want to remove the raised ridges .... chuck the bit BACKWARDS (sharp end goes into the drill chuck) and spin the bit as you sand the exposed tail of the bit smooth again.



Ok, what does "gall the bit" mean?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Update folks, 
I turned the blank around, looked for markings showing me which corners were actually in the blank holder and used those same edges.   Drilled in from the undrilled end, and yes, they met up just dandy.  AND my hole did NOT end up bigger than the pen tube.  Tube is in, glue drying as we speak.

THEN… I got brave enough to drill a second blank.  This time on slow… and only about a half inch pull out. Soon as I'd see ribbons, pull out.
Only the second time, the ribbons I'd pick out of the bit were semi melted.
Holy cow it heats up fast.
So I took a cloth, tried the DNA.  (alcohol version, not the cell material.)lol
Cooled the bit, plunge again.  Ribbons, pull out, pick the semi melted bits off, and now it just got easier to soak a rag in plain old cold water, hold that around the bit just to cool it.  Not trying to lubricate it, just keep it cool between cuts.

Now the pens I bought have longer tubes than the slim lines.  I wasn't even half way to my end point when the bit would start to seize in there.  I'd QUICK back out.  But it was becoming very clear if I kept going in, with the length of that bit just by the time it hit the uncut portion it was already hot.
So with about an inch to go, I took it out, went ahead and trimmed the length, did the same thing I did with my first stuck one, turned it around and made sure I used the same two corners to grip.   Drilled from the other end.   And again, I got a nice clean hole.  No stuck bit.  (at least not hopelessly fused. Couple times it started to.)  And that blank is tubed and drying now.

SO…. once I actually get something turned, Ill post.  Ill use the blank that was so badly stuck, just in case that hole isn't really flush with the tube.  It might break loose.  Doubt it though.  I had to really push that tube in place. Used ample amounts of medium CA.   Should be good.


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## BeeAMaker (Apr 12, 2017)

artmakersworlds said:


> Skie_M said:
> 
> 
> > 220 grit sandpaper wrapped round the drill bit shank ... then into the drill chuck and tighten her down real good.   Remember for next time.
> ...



Gouge, or to create a spur on the bit that need to be sanded down smooth. I believe is what Skie is referring to

What RPM are you drilling at?


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## artmakersworlds (Apr 13, 2017)

Ok, I kinda figured something like that.   I don't think the hot plastic did anything to the shape of the bit.  So I'll leave that alone.

The blank that got hopelessly fused to the bit was at high.  (Yea NEVER doing that again with plastic.)  

Today was at the lowest.  Not sure what RPM my lathe does, just slow. I got an "out of the box" no longer carried lathe so no paperwork with it at all.

Sure hope turning won't be as problematic.  I kinda doubt it would be since the tools and plastic are on the outside, and visible, vs in a closed hole with a ton of friction and no cooling at all. 

I wonder…. (yea I do that sometimes.)  

Would drilling these out on a bench press be any better than doing it on the lathe?  Seems more pressure pushing the bit through might speed up the process faster than binding.
Or no difference at all?  Go slow, pull out a lot, cool down he bit a lot?


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## randyrls (Apr 13, 2017)

artmakersworlds said:


> So.. next time out there, it's only got less than an inch to go.  I'll hit it from the undrilled end.  should eliminate the chances of blow out too.




Jenny;  One technique is to eliminate blowout by not drilling all the way thru the blank,  It is commonly referred to as "Cut long, Drill short, Cut off", and is described in this Wiki article.

Send me a private message if you need further info.....


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## BeeAMaker (Apr 13, 2017)

artmakersworlds said:


> Would drilling these out on a bench press be any better than doing it on the lathe?  Seems more pressure pushing the bit through might speed up the process faster than binding.
> Or no difference at all?  Go slow, pull out a lot, cool down he bit a lot?



You should be around 70 - 1200 RPMs. Without a meter it would be hard to know on your lathe, but I would guess someplace in the middle for you.

Your bit shouldn't be getting that hot. Mine (now that I figured it out) barly gets warm. I drill in about 3/4 - 1"" at a time on acrylics. 

A drill press can certainly do the same thing as far as melting your bit into the plastic. Yes it is a bit faster. My press has a wobble, so I don't use it anymore. But you would want it at about the same RPMs.

Check and see if your tail stock meets your head stock. If you have a point you can place in both ends and bring your tail to the head stock until those two points are touching. Are they in line? I wonder if your bit is actually going in at a slight angle causing excessive heat.

Here is a link to my vid about my lathe,
https://youtu.be/Y8hNjynivu4?t=11m50s
The video starts at the point I am referring to how to check your centers. You can watch the whole thing if you want.


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## artmakersworlds (Apr 13, 2017)

I like your tool rack there.  


Ok, I don't have a point for the headstock.  But the pen mandrel has to meet up with the tail stock and that does just fine.  When I put the drill bit in the tail stock and slide it over, the center point is dead on center.

now.. one thing.  That whole tail stock is wobbly on the tracks.  I wonder… perhaps as it's drilling in it's not going in perfectly straight after all. 

Say, almost forgot.  When I got the lathe I posted in here questions about it.
Someone actually did post a manual.   
http://manuals.harborfreight.com/man...5999/95607.pdf

Just looked… Speed Range is 750 - 3200 RPM   So mine must have been at 3200 when it was fused so bad.   But the last one I did at 750 and it still wants to hang up, especially the further in I got.  It actually stopped the lathe a few times but I quick yanked the bit out.  Ribbons were crusty, half melted.


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## Skie_M (Apr 13, 2017)

It's likely that the bit isn't very sharp or could be a bit dirty (on the sides rather than up by the point).


I have the same lathe ... generally drill at 750 - 1500 RPMs, but I occasionally back the bit out if it starts getting hot (as metal expands when hot) and let it cool for 5 - 20 minutes ... usually as I watch some anime.


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## artmakersworlds (Apr 13, 2017)

It's a brand new bit from pennstateind.   First time ever used.


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## Skie_M (Apr 13, 2017)

Roll the bit across a flat surface like the kitchen countertop or something ... see if it wobbles.  If it doesn't roll nice and flat, then the bit is bent.  I've had bent bits delivered to my door before ... I'm assuming USPS or UPS had more to do with that than PSI.


Also ... you may still want to sharpen brand new bits from some places, just to be sure.  Especially if you are getting that bit hot enough to melt acrylics ... I've never managed to do that.


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## BeeAMaker (Apr 13, 2017)

Does the Tail stock wobble as you turn the hand wheel?

The ribbons will be crusty, it's more important that they are evacuating as the bit goes in.


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## artmakersworlds (Apr 13, 2017)

Well… my NEXT piece of equipment, which should be soon, is a grinder.  Then posting back here to find out what grinding wheels I should buy to replace the crappy ones they all seem to come with.


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## artmakersworlds (Apr 13, 2017)

BeeAMaker said:


> Does the Tail stock wobble as you turn the hand wheel?



It only wobbles on the tracks when it's loose.  Which it has to be when drilling out blanks.  I slide it in the blank by hand. 

I should just get a video.  Mess and all.  (Need to organize bad.)
Got an eye doctor appointment in a little bit so a video may be awhile.


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## jttheclockman (Apr 13, 2017)

I think we are now making too much out of this. All acrylics will get the bit hot when drilled and some woods will do the same such as exotics or hard grained woods. Happens to all of us. I know it happens to me . So that is not a big deal. keep the bit cool and to do this use water or in my case I use Denatured alcohol. Do not advance the bit too far. There is no exact science here. You have to develop a feel for this. Clear the debris from the hole often. 

Tailstock is loose is not possible so not sure what you guys are talking about. Now the chuck in the tailstock can be loose and to combat this. Tighten the jib screw to snug so as you advance the chuck it does not wobble and hold the chuck with your left hand to further take out the movement. 

The bit is sharp and keep it that way. All bits will have a tendency to grab. Slow the speed down on the motor. The above points are more important than the speed though. 

There are many threads on this in here so maybe do a search and read further. As far as drilling on a drill press, many people do it but it has its own set of flaws too but the same principles about drill bit and clearing and keeping cool still apply. One motor is mounted above and the other motor is mounted sideways. Same rules apply. 

Glad you got the bit out and hope you learned a few things along the way. Now it is time to put them to use and lets see some pens. :biggrin:


You mentioned grinder is next. Start a new thread for this. I am thinking you want the grinder to sharpen your turning tools. white or blue wheels is best 80 grit and 120 grit is best. Some grinders come with good wheels on them already so be aware of this.  Slow speed grinder is best. Some sort of jig to hold tools is best. There are many out there. Will talk about all this when you start new thread on this. Good luck.


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## Skie_M (Apr 13, 2017)

artmakersworlds said:


> BeeAMaker said:
> 
> 
> > Does the Tail stock wobble as you turn the hand wheel?
> ...



OK, to answer John's latest question concerning a wobbly tailstock ... well, he apparently doesn't lock it down and turn the knob to advance the quill like most sane people.   (Which means he's kinda like me, but that's neither here nor there.)

Snug the tip of the drill bit up to your center hole or dimple that you made with the sharp end of a tool in the center of rotation of your blank ... lock the tailstock down ...

While holding the chuck steady to reduce it"s movement as much as possible and to prevent it from coming loose from the tailstock itself, advance your quill using the knob on the tailstock 1/2 turn at a time (more or less, depends on how well it seems to be cutting) and back it off a tiny increment in order to allow your lathe's motor to return to it's current speed setting (start at 750 - lowest speed, and increase speed if it starts to bog down to much).   

Clear the bit from the hole completely every half inch or so of progress in order to clean the bit and allow things to cool down. (unlock tailstock, move bit out and clean it off .... move bit back into the hole and lock tailstock back down before progressing again)


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## BeeAMaker (Apr 13, 2017)

artmakersworlds said:


> BeeAMaker said:
> 
> 
> > Does the Tail stock wobble as you turn the hand wheel?
> ...



Wait - are you saying you leave the entire tail stock loose while pushing it into the blank? you *DO *lock it in place before cranking the hand wheel correct? you don't try to push the entire tail stock into the blank.

If you are not locking the tail stock in place every time, then that would be a problem. Other than that, then jttheclockman is probably correct and we are over analyzing this. You just have to find your groove.


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## edicehouse (Apr 13, 2017)

WOW, talk about a long journey.


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## jttheclockman (Apr 13, 2017)

I lock the tailstock down all the time and advance the quill with the turn wheel. Never of heard of anyone not doing that. I said snug the jib screw on the side of the quill to take out that movement along with holding the chuck as you drill. You do not want to tighten the jib screw or else you could not move the quill as you turn. That is why I said I was not sure what you guys are talking about the tailstock wobblying. It can't wobble if you lock it down. No tailstock wobbles when secured.


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## artmakersworlds (Apr 13, 2017)

Ok, I need to go shoot a short video on the loose thing.  I've confused you all.

Be prepared though,  my work area has rapidly turned into a bit of a disaster zone.
(and yet I know where everything is. Stuff gets lost only after I "organize."  It's an artist thing.)


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## artmakersworlds (Apr 13, 2017)

Ok, here ya go.  This will show what "wiggle" I'm talking about.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYcPWi8csrU


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## BeeAMaker (Apr 13, 2017)

You said "_I really have to hold this to slide it in straight_"
That is the part I am still confused with. Do you mean _Hold it down so you can slide it into the hole straight, lock it down and use the hand wheel to continue drilling?_ Or do you mean you hold it tight sliding it in _while _drilling? 
You should be locking it down before you continue to drill. Can you clarify that part?


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## Skie_M (Apr 13, 2017)

Yup ... our assessment was correct.  Tighten the tailstock down so that it doesn't wobble, and use the knob at the right side to advance the quill.  It will take a little getting used to, but your hole clearances should diminish right away!  Go back to my last posting describing the sequence of events and try that out to see for yourself.


Now ... as for the "play" in the tailstock making for it locking down in multiple positions/angles so that it's not perfectly lined up with the headstock spindle ....  This could cause you issues, too.

Unfortunately, that version of lathe from Harbor Freight is built to have that extra bit of clearance, to allow the tailstock to move forward and back with little effort.  Some idiot thought it would be a good idea to make it just a little less accurate, in doing so .... (damn French engineering!)  Anyways ... bring your tailstock up to your headstock and line the points up.  While doing so, note which direction you have to push your tailstock to line it up ... is it tight up against the front lathe rail or rear lathe rail?  

Remember this every time you go to lock down your tailstock and align it properly with the headstock, and you'll have fewer problems down the road.  (Or you can pull the tailstock off and shim it with brass or aluminum strips so you don't have to remember to do that anymore.)

[story time]
If you want to know what I'm talking about concerning French engineering, there's an old story going around concerning NASA selling off a gigantic "turkey gun" to France back when they wanted to test the front windshield of the Concorde during testing and development.  

This "turkey gun" was designed to fire the bird using compressed air at speeds of up to Mach 2, to simulate birdstrikes during re-entry and landing procedures.  The French engineering team set up the gun, and during the actual testing phase they lined up an actual Concorde jet for the target, rather than a cockpit mockup.  

On firing, the turkey passed through the front windscreen (the canard at the front), the main windscreen, took out the captain's chair (thank god the plane was unoccupied), tore through the cockpit bulkhead door, demolished the chairs in the first 7 rows of First Class as it was deflected upwards ... halfway down the length of the fuselage it ripped it's way out of the plane and damaged the tail assembly just before it broke through the concrete wall on the other side of the building.  

The French authorities fired off a hasty telegram, asking NASA what in the world happened, and how they can avoid this kind of damage during flight ....  NASA's response was a single sentence:  "Thaw the damned bird."


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## artmakersworlds (Apr 13, 2017)

Ok, I see what your saying now.  I watched one youtube thing where the guy did what I've been doing. Hand sliding it to the blank.  Just watched several more and everyone else tightens it down, and uses the knob.  Will try that next time.

Meanwhile, this guy is good.  Video on how to clean the chuck.  
This is kinda long but in it, he said if the lathe screws aren't the same thread count, the lathe should not be used on this chuck.  It will burn out the motor.

Swell!!!!! I was sold an adaptor so it will fit.  Which means I probably shouldn't be using it in the first place?  

Here… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQq4e7VCKeo

Good info on how to clean it though. I haven't even drilled a dozen blanks yet but it will need cleaning at some point.  

~~~~~~~~~~
BTW… that turkey gun?   Myth busters did a show only it was a chicken gun.
And they pretty much proved frozen or thawed, makes no difference.


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## Skie_M (Apr 13, 2017)

Uhh ... I think it actually has more to do with the size of the chuck + the weight of whatever you are trying to turn ...  in general, try not to overload your lathe with too much spinning mass.

This is part of the reason why your lathe manual states that you should NEVER try to turn the lathe on without the speed knob at the minimum speed setting.  Spinning up a large mass takes a lot of power, and you only have a 1/3 hp motor.  Let it get up to it"s minimum speed before you turn the speed up.  

The other reasons why are - if it is out of round/balance, it may be thrown off the lathe, causing property damage or injury.

And the last reason on my mind is ... you will want to ensure that your project is spinning in a stable fashion (without the lathe jumping or dancing on the workbench) as you adjust speed upwards without causing those bad vibrations before you begin to approach your project with lathe tools in hand.

As for mythbusters ... they never got hold of a space shuttle or concorde windscreen ... they were using windscreens off of old tweety bird cessnas, and NONE of them were impact resistant or impact rated at any level.  (watched the series myself, loved it anyways!)


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## artmakersworlds (Apr 13, 2017)

Skie_M said:


> This is part of the reason why your lathe manual states that you should NEVER try to turn the lathe on without the speed knob at the minimum speed setting.



AHHHHH.  Did not know this.  See? You just expanded my wealth of knowledge a bit more.

I do have it secure to the table though in an odd sort of way.
I built that table but… if I were to do it again, I'd have made the table top larger than the base it sits on so I could clamp things to it.
Wasnt thinking about lathes when I made that thing.  Just wanted something solid and heavy, and cheap so I could cut wood, stretch canvas, like that. Not a catch all of every little part made like it's becoming.  
(I'll organize soon.)

BUT… off in another corner is a plastic table belonging to my neighbor.  (I think he forgot about it.)  I have plans to build another one there.  Probably move the lathe to that one and bolt it down directly. I'll put pegboards around it or shelves, or both.  Storage!  Keep tools and little parts off the table.
But for now, the lathe is screwed to a scrap board, and THAT is clamped to the table with long clamps.  It's not walking away from me.


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## jttheclockman (Apr 13, 2017)

I would never leave the tailstock loose when drilling. Whoever shown you that or whatever video you saw forget it. Get it out of your mind. For what we do it never will come into play. Lock the tailstock down and advance the quill with the knob. If the bit needs to be moved forward because it is not long enough. Just leave the bit in the hole, back the quill out, loosen the tailstock and advance the whole unit. Now tighten the tailstock again and advance the bit by turning the hand wheel. 

I will leave all that other stuff to others because I am lost. French guys making lathes and harbor freight specials is out of my league. good luck and lets see some pens. Nice inlaying. Should look good.


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## artmakersworlds (Apr 13, 2017)

jttheclockman said:


> I stopped following this because you are all over the place here. Never leave the tailstock loose when drilling. Whoever shown you that or whatever video you saw forget it. Get it out of your mind.



Yea, conversations tend to do that.  If you bothered to read any of it, you might have seen my original problem has been solved.  

As for the youtube thing I saw, I can't find it now but yea, been told, I get that too.  Several posts back actually. Now that I've watched considerably more videos than when I started out, all of them do exactly what was said here.  I was doing it wrong.  Live and learn.

No one is born knowing this stuff.  I am learning.  Isn't that the point of these forums?   If your tired of following it, don't.  Very simple.


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## jttheclockman (Apr 13, 2017)

Now if you are going to take my last comments as a knock or something so be it. But the point is until you did the video we could not follow what you were doing. We are all trying to help you solve the original problem. Which was a stuck bit. Maybe the reason it got stuck was of this way of drilling with the tailstock being left loose. When you start mixing in so many different problems or questions they get lost because people stop reading because the thread is getting so long and floating so much. I am suggesting start a new topic with each new problem and you will get more help. If I am well off base here than I am sorry. Continue on.  Good luck with your turning. I do know how threads shift topics and get side tracked.


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## artmakersworlds (Apr 13, 2017)

You just said it yourself.  The reason it got stuck, at least in part, may have been because I was holding the tailstock instead of using the knob.  So not totally off topic.
I actually made several mistakes. 
1.  Too fast.
2.  Did not stop frequently enough to clean and cool the bit.
3.  The whole tailstock issue which didn't come up until some conversation.
So now I know.  At least three things I know now to do differently.  Thanks to the good folks here.  

(and yea, you do come off a tad like your scolding me.  The best teachers never scold students.  Or put them down for not asking the right questions or in the right manner.
The most memorable lessons never came from teachers who did.)


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## jttheclockman (Apr 13, 2017)

Good luck. I am glad you did pick up a few things that may help you in the future. I tried to help you and add my knowledge. Happy things worked out for you and I look forward to seeing the pens you have on the lathe. I am a sucker for segmenting and inlaying. The typed word is many times misread. I need to once again add more smiley faces.


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## BeeAMaker (Apr 14, 2017)

At least you realized your mistakes and learned something. :music:

I'm still learning myself, many more mistakes and learning ahead so carry on, your doing great for just starting out! :glasses-nerdy:

I'm glade we stuck with it until we found that issue, other wise who know how long you may have had to deal with it!


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## More4dan (Apr 14, 2017)

Also, almost EVERY drill bit I purchased from PSI was dull and would heat up drilling acrylic.  With a sharp bit I can drill acrylic blanks without cooling if I'm careful about cleaning the bit every 1/2" or so.  


Sent from my iPhone using Penturners.org mobile app


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## Woodchipper (Apr 14, 2017)

> I got an "out of the box" no longer carried lathe so no paperwork with it at all.


I have found there are some websites that have manuals for old and obsolete equipment.  Do a search.  Who made the lathe?  There might be something on their website if they are still in business.  Good luck.
I had trouble drilling lignum vita-told to slow down the drill press and use a sharp bit.  Stuff is like drilling tool steel!


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## tomas (Apr 14, 2017)

duncsuss said:


> When this happened to me, I chose to leave the drill bit embedded in the acrylic blank and keep the whole thing nearby as a reminder to keep the bit cool when drilling.
> 
> I currently use automatic transmission fluid (the red stuff) to lubricate drill bits, taps and dies. I read about it on one of the machinists sites, and it works for me.



I'm with you.  For me this would become Lemonade #2.  Here's Lemonade #1.


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## duncsuss (Apr 14, 2017)

tomas said:


> Here's Lemonade #1.



Now _*that's*_ what I call Lemonade :biggrin:


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## artmakersworlds (Apr 14, 2017)

Oh wow, there would be some serious cussin if I did that.  Looks like it would have been an awesome…. bowl?
Wall art.  yup.  

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Well guys, what a difference.    I drilled out one more of those lavalite blanks.  This time the RIGHT way.   NO issues what so ever.   No binding, no problems.  

I do wish my lathe had one of those tailstock knobs with the handle.  Mine is just a knob.  And it sure doesn't reach far.   But… it works.  I trim the blank, drill half way,
Turn it, make sure I use the same two edges to clamp it in, and come in from the other end.    Perfecto!  

I still have that inlay pen project on the mandrel and it might be sometime next week before I can finish that one.  Don't want to take it off to turn one of these plastic ones. Got it perfectly lined up on there.   I can wait.


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## More4dan (Apr 14, 2017)

I do move my tail stock up to drill deeper. You have to stop, unclamp the tail move back to clear the chips and move back each time. Helps to unclamp the tail just enough to get it to move without it being too wobbly.   But if reversing works keep at it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Penturners.org mobile app


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## tomas (Apr 14, 2017)

artmakersworlds said:


> Oh wow, there would be some serious cussin if I did that.  Looks like it would have been an awesome…. bowl?
> Wall art.  yup.
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> ...



It was a bowl and it was almost done...I just wanted to trim a little off the base and used a square carbide tip instead of the round one. I found all of the pieces and thought about gluing it all back together but decided it looked better as a "work in progress."

Tomas


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## artmakersworlds (Apr 14, 2017)

I set that… oh hell what's it called.  The pointy lead bit of the drill right on the blank. Clamp the tailstock down like I'm suppose to.
Then turned it on, went in about a half inch, back out, picked the stuff off, I keep a paper towel there doused in cold water, hold that on the drill bit for a few seconds.  
Then insert the bit into the hole, slide the tailstock until the bit is at the end of it's hole, tighten down the tailstock, turn it on.  Repeat.

Seemed to work.   I don't think it would be good to go the whole length of this blank though.  Half way in it starts to squeak.  Sure sign it's about to hang up right?
But my trick of flipping the blank around, making sure the same edges are in the chuck, seems to work.  NO blow outs, the hole does line up.  Someone said it might not but it does.  This way the drill bit doesn't have to go very far.   

I got this.  
I still have one more blank to drill out.  Thought I'd see what you folks have to say first.
But this one sure was easier than my first blunder.


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## Skie_M (Apr 14, 2017)

Helping people make progress and get better at doing what we do ... that's what the forums are for!


(Kudos to Jeff, by the way ... this is a great place to stop by and ask questions!)


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