# Spiral



## Hexhead (Nov 13, 2006)

I need to make a spiral on some pen blanks, Any jigs out there?

Thanks


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## Hexhead (Nov 13, 2006)

Helllllllllllllllp! Someone must heard something somewhere NO? I'm getting desperate I need to crank these pens out, maybe I bit off more than I can chew. I might end up making my own jig, which I don't mine doing if it weren't for the time constraints.


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## dfurlano (Nov 13, 2006)

Either by hand, Legacy mill or CNC. You pick. Do a search in the archives. Chuck Key made a jig it was a while ago and not to simple.


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## PenWorks (Nov 13, 2006)

If you need to crank them out, then don't use "by hand" in the same sentence.
If you need to make many, then go find a Legacy model 200 somewhere. Once you have it set up
for a paticular pen blank, then you can crank. But then you have to sand. Sanding takes 50 times longer than cranking.


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## woodscavenger (Nov 13, 2006)

So how big a bite did you take?


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## tnilmerl (Nov 14, 2006)

Woodcraft used to sell a tool called the MillLathe (LatheMill?).  Sold for about $400.  Very well made.  Apparently the company went out of business.  Anyway.  You mounted your regular pen mandrel in it and use a dremel-like tool to cut spirals or flutes or whatever.  Really cool.  My local Woodcraft still has one in stock they'll sell real cheap.  Downside is they do not have the spiral adapter jig you need.  (That the only reason why I did not buy it). So you would have to try to get that from some other store.  Bad news is that Woodcraft is changing computer systems nationwide, and not all the stores are on the same inventory system yet.  So you can't call one store and have them check all the other stores in the nation.  And since this is a discontinued item, it may not still be listed on the inventory, even though it may be in each individual store's clearance area.


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## Hexhead (Nov 14, 2006)

Penworks, where did you read "by hand" in my message? "Crank" out was a expression.It means to hurry up not necessarily to make many, I hope this helps. I didn't realize I had to be politically correct on this site, I'll try harder not to do that for your sake.


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## ilikewood (Nov 14, 2006)

Whoa Hex...Anthony (Penworks) is one of the nicest guys on the forum...also one of the most helpful.  Don't misinterpret anything here as "politically correct" as it does not have to be.  He was just giving you some great advice as he turns LOTS of spirals.  I think he is the only guy here who really actually makes money on his hobby!![]


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## ctEaglesc (Nov 14, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Hexhead_
> <br />Penworks, where did you read "by hand" in my message? "Crank" out was a expression.It means to hurry up not necessarily to make many, I hope this helps. I didn't realize I had to be politically correct on this site, I'll try harder not to do that for your sake.


I have a reputation for insulting people but you have me  beat.
Let's see.
Been on this forum less than a month, less than 10 posts, haven't offered much, haven't shown us anything you have made.
It appears you made a commitment to make something you evidently know nothing about.
There was a member who got admittance to the Guild by hand cutting spiral beautiful spiral pens.
A legacy mill is another method but costs more.
The remark Anthony made to you was not deemed to me as being smart a$$ed.
Your reply to him was another matter.
If you told me you committed to make fifty of these the answer might be different than if you needed to make 1 or 2.
I suggest the next time you ask for help you don't smack the hand that is willing to reach out to you.
Now is it 3 or fifty.
BTW have you ever made a pen?
Try searching Tom McMillan in the archive search section of this site or find Tom McMillan's photo album .
on the second page there are some beautiful examples of his work.
I could post the link but I think you should at least make the effort.
Now I have probably insulted you too.


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## wdcav1952 (Nov 14, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Hexhead_
> <br />Penworks, where did you read "by hand" in my message? "Crank" out was a expression.It means to hurry up not necessarily to make many, I hope this helps. I didn't realize I had to be politically correct on this site, I'll try harder not to do that for your sake.



Hexhead,

Take a moment and read your signature line.  There is some good advice there.


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## alamocdc (Nov 14, 2006)

Hex, if you'll read the post above Anthony's (Penworks), you'll notice that Dan made the first reference to hand made and that is partly what Anthony's reply was addressing. Like Bill, Eagle and Cav, I think you jumped the gun a bit.


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## PenWorks (Nov 14, 2006)

Still not sure if you have to make 1 or alot of them ? I interpet crank out, as you need to make alot of them. 
As stated above, in Tom Mcmillan's album is a spiral pen cut by hand using a rasp file.
Don Ward, using the now out of prodution Pen MIll, a good machine if you can find it with all the parts.
Chuckie, now he has the brains around here. He modified his lathe and made his own jigs, you can look in his album.
I happen to use a Legacy Mill model 200, from what I hear, no longer made either. to bad, still a good machine. They are still around. Here is how I make my spirals.

http://www.penturners.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=9010&SearchTerms=legacy,mill

Oh....I am anything but politically correct []

Good luck.


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## tnilmerl (Nov 14, 2006)

Since we're on the topic, does anyone know if Beall has made a final decision to drop his little milling system for the Jet lathe?  When I called some time back, they had stopped producing them for lack of interest.  Wonder how much interest would be needed to get them to crank up a production run?


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## PenWorks (Nov 14, 2006)

It is not on production. There is one or two that pop up every now & then.
Ron Mc, had bought one then sold it, not sure if he ever used it.
Scubaman has one, I have seen the guliche work on his pens made from the machine and really like the patterns. I think one of Beall's down falls was, they made the machine and said, here is the machine, go figure out how to use it []


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## Skye (Nov 14, 2006)

Any links to someone making one with a file? I'd like to make one some day, but wont have the bread for a machine to do the hard work for me.


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## PenWorks (Nov 14, 2006)

I don't know of any links, but I saw a demo of a guy who made a spiral candle stick by hand. Same principal,  took his round stock on the lathe, and drew a pencil line for his spiral and then with his files, followed the lines and cut in his spiral by hand. If you look at Tom McMillan pens, I am sure that is how he does it. But his two tone wood ones are cool.


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## gerryr (Nov 14, 2006)

I saw a write-up by Tom on how he does his, but I can't remember where I saw it.  It isn't in the PMG articles list so it must have been in a magazine.  I'll try to remember to look for it tonight.  It was a good article, but it sure looks very time consuming.  You don't make one of those in an evening.


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## bob393 (Nov 14, 2006)

wow: Just check out Kip and Rex's book. Some ideas at least.


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## Skye (Nov 14, 2006)

I appreciate it. I'm not real worried about doing it the fastest way, so that's cool.


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## redbulldog (Nov 14, 2006)

Search the archives for "Spiral El Grande FP" This is an article by Tom McMillan explaining his method.


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## Hexhead (Nov 14, 2006)

Wow, I just got back and read the flames. Perhaps I did jump the gun and I apologize to penworks. But do you feel justified jumping me like you did? If I speak out of turn I well correct it without being belittled, flamed, all you have to do is just put forth a point of reason. Yes I jumped to a conclusion but as you mention it was because there was a misunderstanding. In retrospect I should have asked Penworks what he meant, but I didn't and I can't take it back, but I would have like that better myself instead of what I got. So a lessoned learned. Again I apologize to Penworks


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## PenWorks (Nov 14, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Hexhead_
> <br />Wow, I just got back and read the flames. Perhaps I did jump the gun and I apologize to penworks.



Personally, I thought the group was pretty cordial [B)]
I seen flames so hot here, make a flame thrower look like a match []

No harm, no foul [] Keep an eye on the classifieds in the next day or two [?] [?] [] For those who may be interested in a twist.


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## Hexhead (Nov 14, 2006)

Ya I guess your right reading back there was only one that stood out. Is there going to be something for sale do you think?


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## btboone (Nov 14, 2006)

Another potential technique might involve a steel plate that is drilled with holes in a daisy pattern.  It is used as a scraping device, and would be forced over the pen body to shave away wood, leaving a spiral rope pattern.  The scraper would be forced on as the pen body is slowly rotated, or the scraper itself might just be forced on by hand following a helical pencil mark.  It would probably take making a couple scrapers of decreasing sizes, so one scraper doesn't have to scrape too deeply.  This would lend itself to higher volume and less sanding than doing it completely by hand.


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## its_virgil (Nov 14, 2006)

Bill,
Maybe this can be scaled down to pen size. I have some insturctions on how to lay out spindles for hand spiraling. I will scan a copy and email them to you. 

As for sprialing tools, your choices are: The Legacy 200 (out of production), a larger Legacy mill (http://www.legacywoodworking.com),
a Beall Lathe Wizard (out of production), a Sears Router Crafter (out of production), The MillLathe which was sold by woodcraft and is now out of production but some are still availavle but the kits needed are may be difficult to find, and some kind of homemade jig. These out of production tools pop up from time to time...if you want on, keep your eyes open...check the classifieds here and on other forums. 

Anthony really is a nice guy and quite helpful, as are most all of our members. 

do a good turn daily!
Don


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## Hexhead (Nov 14, 2006)

I looked at the legacy and after I caught my breath I knew I wouldn't be going there. I make a lot of things myself because of being so broke the wolf leaves stuff at my door. I'll keep my eye open for those systems out of production. I just found a little motor out of a  display turntable that might work for the rotation device now i need to find something that has coarse threads to use to move the pen. If I get something together I'll post it.


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## its_virgil (Nov 14, 2006)

Here  is the link to the setup that Chuckie built back in the summer. 
http://www.penturners.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16148

Some good info there.

Do a good turn daily!
Don


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## Hexhead (Nov 14, 2006)

OH YA that fits the ticket, thanks a bunch for your good memory. I have one too but it's just so short. Out to the junk pile!![]


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## PenWorks (Nov 14, 2006)

> _Originally posted by its_virgil_
> <br />
> Anthony really is a nice guy and quite helpful,



Come on....you hurting my image of being a Bad A** []

Chuckie should make one of his spiral lathes and sell it. This way we can add his machine to the list of defunk rotary tools that died a quick death. I think the samll ones died early because they were aimed at pen turners and small craft market. The bigger machines that can handle longer work seem to have stayed in the market place, like the bigger Legacy machines.


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## Hexhead (Nov 14, 2006)

I agree there's not many around for sure. The one I'll attempt to make will be a stand alone unit just for pens and on a much smaller scale. I'll use a dremel or rotozip (everyones got one of those right?) and perhaps a serpentine belt and cog pulley system rather than chain. No great turning forces on a pen right.


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## Chuck Key (Nov 14, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Hexhead_
> <br />OH YA that fits the ticket, Out to the junk pile!![]



Ahem junk?  Each piece is a priceless treasure [)] Defunct, naa.  I am making continuous changes to it.  An enhanced version may be ready for show soon[]

Chuckie


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## Tom McMillan (Nov 14, 2006)

Spirals----Yup, they're fun to do by hand!!  Of course, Anthony's still gonna send me his Legacy--right Anthony??  And Bruce--have you tried this daisy patterned scraper??  Where would one get one??  Anyway, for those who want to read a little about how I do mine as referred to by Red---here's a link to the post:  http://tinyurl.com/yd56ql Not really much of an article, but some basics.

After I draw a straight line lengthwise on the blanks, I set the points of my spiral---I start in a little from each end of the blank and make a mark about 5/16" apart between spirals--then I take a thin piece of tape and wrap it around the wood in a spiral fashion lining it up with each mark on the line.  I eyeball the tape as best as I can.  Then I make a pencil line around the tape and remove the tape.  I use a small rasp (actually a 4" bastard file which is tapered---about 1/16" at the tip up to about 1/8").  I made a wood handle for mine making it easier to use.  I follow the line as best I can and make cuts with the rasp (I turn the mandrel with my left hand and rasp with the right).  I cut progressively deeper and true the spiral as I go.  After I reach the depth I want, I use a small nail and sandpaper and sand the spiral.  I have gotten faster over time---but can't compare to how long a Legacy or other mechanical device would take.


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## Tom McMillan (Nov 14, 2006)

At one time folks were sick of seeing this pen---but, I'll show it here as an example of what can be done by hand.  I did want to say I think you might be able to get tighter spirals by hand than by a machine---maybe, others can clarify if I'm wrong.


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## PenWorks (Nov 14, 2006)

Overlay rope twist...ala Tom McMillian style.....

Oooopppps ! I rushed this one tonight Tom, after cutting 65 ropes today, I finally glued up 5 overlay blanks. I was a bit tired tonight and kinda rushed this one. But still learned from it. I had planned on scrapping the first couple anyway. []





<br />


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## ctEaglesc (Nov 15, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Tom McMillan_
> <br />At one time folks were sick of seeing this pen---but, I'll show it here as an example of what can be done by hand.  I did want to say I think you might be able to get tighter spirals by hand than by a machine---maybe, others can clarify if I'm wrong.


Sure, the one place the TN feature would be nice asd you do use it[]
Tom I never get tired of seeing this pen, espescially since it was done with the method you use.
Didn't it win some kind of pen and display contest?
I realize they are time consuming,as far as I am concerned YOU wrote the book on this design(no offense Anthony,AFAIK Tom did it first)


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## PenWorks (Nov 15, 2006)

None taken [] Tom's pen and stand was one of the classiest pieces to grace our pages.


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## gerryr (Nov 15, 2006)

I couldn't find that article last night.  Maybe Tom could fill us in on where it is.  The Winter 2005 issue of Woodturning Design has an article on Spiral Turnings by Bill Bowers.  The article shows how to do them by hand.


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## DCBluesman (Nov 15, 2006)

Here's Tom's description from awhile back.  I tried this once.  If you haven't noticed, it's not in my album or on my site.  A miserable failure.  But I'll try again when I have the patience!  http://www.penturners.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=3564&whichpage=1#29279


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## Tom McMillan (Nov 15, 2006)

Unfortunately, I haven't done a magazine article yet---I started one, but am now busily trying to eak out a meager living making miniatures I sell on EBAY, so just haven't had time to complete it.

The link Lou gives above is the same link I have posted above, and gives a brief description for hand spiral.

Thanks Eagle---yes, this pen and stand won the IAP/Woodturning Design Contest in Advanced Category---guess that was a couple years ago or so now.


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## Hexhead (Nov 15, 2006)

Funny I just got online and read the post about doing it by hand. I in fact tried just that and it didn't come out to bad. It was pretty fast too. I used a flex shaft grinder and a slender carbide bit (the fuzzy type).


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## Hexhead (Nov 15, 2006)

Whoops, that's very big picture, any thought how to make it smaller, what size are you loading your pic's


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## bob393 (Nov 16, 2006)

Nice job!


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## Hexhead (Nov 16, 2006)

Thanks I wish I would have seen Tom McMillans pens and how to do before I tried it, it would have saved me a lot of aggravation. Looks to me as he is the master this type of pen, they are really sharp. I got my idea off another web sight, it actually might have been one of his pens, He said he did his with a gouge but me being of the lazy sort had this slim carbide bit and craved it out with flex shaft, I had a few failures before this result. you have to make sure you don't take too much off when your turning it or the wood underneath starts feathering in. If you look at the photo close you can see it started that on the end of the blank. You can't really see it while it's spinning so you have to check often. This is a great site to learn from the masters![]


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