# What is Acceptable?



## firewhatfire (Aug 31, 2011)

You take the time to take a blank and do all the the prep work.  You turn it and finish it only to find that your nail ever so slightly catches as you drag it down the cap of the pen.  Is it something you would call good enough?  If not, how would you go about correcting the issue as not wanting to ruin the rest of the blank?  Do you just sand it all off or can you sand down 1 end?


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## navycop (Aug 31, 2011)

Looks good to me?


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## butchf18a (Aug 31, 2011)

First of all let me echo Navycops' sentiment, nice looking pen. The "lip" you have is minor. I would ask, how long have you been making pens? Now that you've identified an area for improvement address it with subsequent pens. Practice practice practice. You could get crazy and use a micrometer on your turned blank prior to finishing, I don't think you need go to that extreme. That you are aware of it, you will work to eliminate it. Keep up the good work. Nice finish.


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## bensoelberg (Aug 31, 2011)

butchf18a said:


> You could get crazy and use a micrometer on your turned blank prior to finishing, I don't think you need go to that extreme.



I go that crazy. I figure it takes much less time to measure while the blank is on the lathe than it will to take the pen apart and fix it.  To answer your question about what is acceptable, I would be willing to bet that that little lip is not acceptable to you because you asked about it.  If it was acceptable, you would've accepted it and moved on.  Acceptable and worth redoing are two different things however.  If the pen is for your use, I probably wouldn't fix it, it will always bug you a little, but not enough to motivate you to action.  If it is for a collector who knows pens and may buy more from you based on this one, it would become a necessity to fix it.


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## Phunky_2003 (Aug 31, 2011)

bensoelberg said:


> butchf18a said:
> 
> 
> > You could get crazy and use a micrometer on your turned blank prior to finishing, I don't think you need go to that extreme.
> ...


 
I agree. 

If I noticed it and thought twice about it, I'd have to fix it.  Even if I was keeping it for my own personal pen, I'd still have to fix it.  If I carried that pen and someone looked at it knowing I made them then to me its not up to my standards.

If it is just slightly noticeable, then it may not be too difficult to fix without having to redo the entire finish.  Would just going back over with MM be enough to satisfy you?  Its hard to tell what someone elses slightly noticable compared to anothers is.


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## firewhatfire (Aug 31, 2011)

Phunky2003 says 
If it is just slightly noticeable, then it may not be too difficult to fix without having to redo the entire finish. Would just going back over with MM be enough to satisfy you? Its hard to tell what someone elses slightly noticable compared to anothers is.
this may be my answer.....willl take other suggestions also


I have only been making pens since March of this year. 

The issue is that when turned the pen was dead on. It was in my finishing process that the lip developed with 10 coats of CA finish. 

The pen pictured is one of my earliest segmented pens. The current one(no pic available) is a Jr Gent II non postable and you feel a slight bump coming down that smooth cap. It is a little more elaborate segmented pen with wood and acrylic. Thus my question on the best way to fix or leave it be.  


Preciate any help on the matter.


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## leestoresund (Aug 31, 2011)

Haven't you answered the question yourself?
You now know that your finishing technique will add a significant thickness to the finished pen.
So you should anticipate that in the future and take an RCH more off the pen before you finish it.

Just my $.03

Lee


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## soligen (Aug 31, 2011)

If your pen was dead on before finish, then you risk sand through trying to fix it, so be prepared to re-finish, and remember in the future to allow for finish thickness.

Personally, If it think I can improve it, I fix it. but, thats just me and my own personal, never ending, quest for perfection.

However, fair warning. I have ruined perfectlly functional completed pens while "fixing" them. Just ruined one last week


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## KenV (Aug 31, 2011)

No right or wrong answer  --- this is one of those "is it good nuf??" personal issues that we each face.

I suspect you have your answer already --   Mine is more like Dennis -- I will redo until it get it to work as I expect it should.


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## Pete275 (Aug 31, 2011)

Having just recently started doing CA finishes with success, I now find that I must make everything slightly smaller in diameter and am trying to use a micrometer instead of totally relying on the bushings. I learn something new every time a turn a pen. 

Wayne


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## firewhatfire (Aug 31, 2011)

Well I took the advice of phunky and started working through the mm.  It wasn't enough and I went back to some 320 and did as expected.  I sanded through it.  Took it back down and resanded and finished it.  I was trying to hurry and did not change bushings to do my finish and popped a small edge off when removing my bushings.  I have now made the appropriate repairs all around.  

I appreciate all of the advice, I believe it has saved the pen.  I know the no pics it didn't happen but this one is going to the judges for the IAP contest.


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## Brooks803 (Aug 31, 2011)

For me, if it's not flush with the components then it either gets tossed or refinished. I'm my worst and best critic. If it passes my inspection then it's deemed fit for sale or public. If you do decide to refinish it you could try sanding that one side down until it's flush. If you don't have calipers you can just use the clip as a checkpoint since that's the part it's pressed up against. Also, when I know I'm needing a CA finish I'll overturn the ends a bit since the edges usually get a larger buildup of CA when I put on my finishes (between centers).


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## Justturnin (Sep 2, 2011)

When I turn mine I turn to the bushings then I sand below the bushing.  Sometimes I will even take a skew and clean up next to the bushings so it is slightly lower.  This way I can fill w/ CA.  Once I finish w/ CA I take my 1/16" parting tool and clean the excess CA off the bushing to reviel the lip.  I will also remove the pen from the mandrel and seperate the bushing.  I do this in case the bushing are really glued on I can break them free and fix any damage prior to sanding.  Then I will sand down the CA wet w/ 600 grit pretty close to the bushings.  Then comes the calipers.  I start from the Tip and work back.  One day I will have 4 sets so I can measure all at once.  Never the less I sand it down to the correct size (almost) and MM the rest of the way.  I have had to run through the MM more than once to accomplish this but in the long run I think it is worth it.  If you know its there and you can see it how long until the new owner notices it.  My thinking on them is turn it like you are giving it to another turner.  They will notice every flaw right away.  When I finish I take them outside and let the sun hit and look for flaws and take them inside and sit w/ them for a while before pressing.  A little obsessive?  Maybe, but it is my way and I am still refining it.  If I dont get it perfect in my eyes it goes in the pile and the tube may be salvaged one day if I am in a bind and need it on the fly.  I have turned multiple tubes for a single kit before I am satisfied.


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## hunter-27 (Sep 2, 2011)

firewhatfire said:


> You take the time to take a blank and do all the the prep work.  You turn it and finish it only to find that your nail ever so slightly catches as you drag it down the cap of the pen.  Is it something you would call good enough?  If not, how would you go about correcting the issue as not wanting to ruin the rest of the blank?  Do you just sand it all off or can you sand down 1 end?


Some had it as their sig line, not sure who but..............


"When you think it is good enough, it isn't."


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## bitshird (Sep 2, 2011)

butchf18a said:


> First of all let me echo Navycops' sentiment, nice looking pen. The "lip" you have is minor. I would ask, how long have you been making pens? Now that you've identified an area for improvement address it with subsequent pens. Practice practice practice. You could get crazy and use a micrometer on your turned blank prior to finishing, I don't think you need go to that extreme. That you are aware of it, you will work to eliminate it. Keep up the good work. Nice finish.



Actually you should go that crazy, I would recommend using of Dial Calipers over Micrometers as you are too apt to get a bad reading with Micrometers, a set of claipers has a " sharp edge" which can be use on or near the end of a piece and by only contacting a small area can give a better result.
I think we come across enough half finished "Almost" perfect things in our daily routines, I know that I sure as heck don't want something going out  associated with me, that I know I could have done a better job on.


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## Lonn (Sep 5, 2011)

*Metal to wood/finish fit*

I make pens in set of 10 typically so you might assume that i am a production pen crafter with compromising standards, not so . before i begin to make a kit that is new to me, i sacrifice a kit for the purpose of making a set of what i call no or yes exact feel gauges. I do this by taking a nib and jambing the point into a closed pin jaw  and slightly pressing the live 60 degree center of the tail stock into the end that normally is pushed into the appropriate tube, then use a sharp small skew to turn the brass of the nib down so as it is exactly the diameter as the starter alignment space that is a design feature on any piece which is to be pressed into a tube. I do the same procedure to a finial insert and assemble the finial (and clip if the clip is of a different diameter or if it is tapered) onto the modified insert. If this particular pen has a center ring i slightly drill out the center so as it will not be a press fit, but a hand push exact fit. If i have explained myself properly any one that has ever assembled a pen then said o-------, now for a few bucks and a little time can eliminate this problem occuring in the future. My motto is that i want to feel the fit before i commit. Look on the bright side, you will inventory a transmission and refill and a set of tubes for this particular kit style that may come in handy in the future.

I anyone after reading this post believes that it should be a separate thread or topic, please suggest a name for the thread and i will start it so  more members might be inticed to read it.


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## spilperson (Sep 5, 2011)

Lonn, so if I understand, you use these slightly modified parts to check the OD of the barrel that you have turned?

On the dial calipers vs micrometers issue, you can buy different "anvils" for micrometers with different shapes, knife edges being a common one. I am just pointing that out, i use calipers myself. They are cheaper and faster and plenty accurate for this work. If i has a critical measurement I would break out the micrometers. Using mikes is a learned skill, though.


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## Lonn (Sep 6, 2011)

spilperson said:


> Lonn, so if I understand, you use these slightly modified parts to check the OD of the barrel that you have turned?
> 
> On the dial calipers vs micrometers issue, you can buy different "anvils" for micrometers with different shapes, knife edges being a common one. I am just pointing that out, i use calipers myself. They are cheaper and faster and plenty accurate for this work. If i has a critical measurement I would break out the micrometers. Using mikes is a learned skill, though.


 
Yes Frank, i use feel instead of the micrometers. I have the blade type as well but error for me creeps up while repetitively measuring a metal part then measuring a wood barrel. Could be that i am too production minded.


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## wouldentu2? (Sep 6, 2011)

Practice, Practice, Practice and Measure, Measure, Measure. It does Matter.


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## bitshird (Sep 6, 2011)

The gauges Lonn has made are actually a good idea they are like go/no go gauges we use in thread fitting and precision machining where your tolerances are with in + o - .003 or .005 and stop and think how much CA do you put on , so cut them just a tad under to allow for finish. I checked the other day I calipered a finished pen it read just shy of dead nuts, and the other end at the finial was plus .003 the difference is so minute it's laughable to try constantly and turn any quantity of pens. Sure on a good CNC lathe or even a CNC Mill with 4th Axis you can get real close, there is one thing I can tell you after many years in many departments of Machine shops, and having access to incredibly accurate measuring machines,some costing many many  thousands of dollars do not believe perfect exists, but damn it we can sure get close. Any time you can turn a pen and there is a difference of lets say .0025 difference either way under turned or over turned. I can get REAL close on Acrylics, but with wood consider that over time it will shrink, and shift around, moist weather it will probably expand.  Could it be this is the reason the major makers use mostly metal or Precious resin (in one case) and the extra anvils for mics I have set for my Mitutoyo  good for wall on bored stuff,thickness ans thread pitch but a pain to keep up with., I still go to my Browne and Sharps,  Calipers are rated at +/- .001 thats close enough


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