# Problems turning Black Palm



## tazhunter0 (Jun 8, 2013)

I have tried 4times to turn some Black Palm I have and they blow apart.  Not talking about just a little on the end either.  They blow apart completely in half!  I have made sure everything was sharp and I have tried slowing the lathe down.  Nothing seems to work.

Any suggestions?  :redface:


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## crabcreekind (Jun 8, 2013)

buy stabilized black palm pen blanks.


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## low_48 (Jun 8, 2013)

What is "every thing is sharp"? What tool? Faster is better, shaving type cuts with the skew are better, light cuts are better (take 20 minutes to turn if you have to, just go lightly), epoxy to glue in the tube with lots of movement of the tube so epoxy is spread completely and has full coverage. When you blow up the blank, are there little bits of wood still stuck to the brass tube? If not, you're not gluing right. Cut from the ends into the center, from both sides. If you get nervous as you get close to the end, take if off the lathe and soak with thin CA.


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## robutacion (Jun 8, 2013)

tazhunter0 said:


> I have tried 4times to turn some Black Palm I have and they blow apart.  Not talking about just a little on the end either.  They blow apart completely in half!  I have made sure everything was sharp and I have tried slowing the lathe down.  Nothing seems to work.
> 
> Any suggestions?  :redface:



Yes, use the "flap disc system" here and you will finish the pen...!

PS: Don't forget the CA soaking of the blank as you go...!

Good luck...!
Cheers
George


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## Wraith (Jun 8, 2013)

For the pens where the wood is turned down really thin I only turn down to just past rounding the blank and then sand with the lathe on and very course sand paper to close to size and then work with decreasing grits.

For the thicker pen kits I turn down to 1-2 mm larger than I need and sand down from there.


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## robutacion (Jun 8, 2013)

Wraith said:


> For the pens where the wood is turned down really thin I only turn down to just past rounding the blank and then sand with the lathe on and very course sand paper to close to size and then work with decreasing grits.
> 
> For the thicker pen kits I turn down to 1-2 mm larger than I need and sand down from there.



Same as the flap disc, only not even close as fast as the flap disc system nor running the risk the start getting out of round turning, typical of hand sanding, flap disc takes it to hand sanding stages the rest is the same as normal...!

Cheers
George


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## edstreet (Jun 8, 2013)

Palm is not really easy when you look at the big picture.

Palm is the opposite of traditional wood (soft on the outside and hard on the inside).  The heart wood of palm is soft and the closer to the center the softer the wood is.  Also the grain is lumpy, hard spots in one area and not in others, inconsistent at best.

So you have a wood (I dont really call it wood  that has hard lumps in a mesh of soft tissue, this is where/why your blowouts are happening.  The best solution is to adjust your cut angle and the cut width.  

The angle is very complex, you have to take the rotation into account (speed and direction), the directions of the fibers, the angle of the cutting edge on the chisel and the style/type of edge on the chisel.

This may help greatly.
Black Palm | The Wood Database - Lumber Identification (Monocots)


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## RDH79 (Jun 9, 2013)

I turn alot of Black Palm & Red Palm slims. First you need to drill the blanks slow. Drill a little then out to clean the bit. If yu go too fast you can easily crack the blank without really knowing it till you turn it. I use 5 minute epoxy and make sure the inside of the blank  is totally covered with glue. Then like others have said slow shallow cuts.


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## tazhunter0 (Jun 9, 2013)

low_48 said:


> What is "every thing is sharp"? What tool? Faster is better, shaving type cuts with the skew are better, light cuts are better (take 20 minutes to turn if you have to, just go lightly), epoxy to glue in the tube with lots of movement of the tube so epoxy is spread completely and has full coverage. When you blow up the blank, are there little bits of wood still stuck to the brass tube? If not, you're not gluing right. Cut from the ends into the center, from both sides. If you get nervous as you get close to the end, take if off the lathe and soak with thin CA.



I use carbide cutters.  I have gone very slowly only to have it come apart.  I will try the epoxy on putting the tubes in, I have been using Med CA.

Thanks


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## jfoh (Jun 9, 2013)

Palm is more like a modified grass, not a true wood. Turn to oversize then sand to finished size. Some will turn to final size with tools but if there are any soft/hard spots the chance of your tool catching is too great. I use black and red palm for inserts on segmented blanks. I leave the segmented area over size and either turn by tool or sand to final size based on how it has turned to this point and how much risk I wan t to take. Turning end grain always is more prone to tear outs than with the grain but palm makes a very interesting segments and is worth the risk.


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## low_48 (Jun 10, 2013)

Carbide cutters sure won't make your work any easier. Some of the palm has big strands and lots of material in between. They are not going to turn easily with a carbide scraper. Have your lathe wide open on speed, and VERY LIGHT CUTTING! Wondering if all of these sanding turners have worked in palm? With the extreme difference in hardness between the strands and fillers, sanding is going to remove the filler much faster than the hard strands. It would be really challenging to get a nice round pen. Not impossible I guess, but palm is a way different beast!


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## edstreet (Jun 10, 2013)

I hate to be rude but the tendency is, even on this forum, to throw $$ equipment after a method problem.  That seems to be the way society is going and it's appalling to say the least.

Carbide tools has their place and all that but they are not the fix all solution for everything under the sun.  The same goes with CA for a finish.


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## KenV (Jun 10, 2013)

tazhunter0 said:


> low_48 said:
> 
> 
> > What is "every thing is sharp"? What tool? Faster is better, shaving type cuts with the skew are better, light cuts are better (take 20 minutes to turn if you have to, just go lightly), epoxy to glue in the tube with lots of movement of the tube so epoxy is spread completely and has full coverage. When you blow up the blank, are there little bits of wood still stuck to the brass tube? If not, you're not gluing right. Cut from the ends into the center, from both sides. If you get nervous as you get close to the end, take if off the lathe and soak with thin CA.
> ...



Not a place that I use carbide scrapers.   Hunter cup carbide in a shear cut (riding the bevel) works well, but a spindle gouge with a long flute or a skew doing light shearing cuts will be successful (and works better for me).   Just finished a tool pen for my wife (quilter) in black palm with skew making light shearing cuts.


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## tazhunter0 (Jun 10, 2013)

I will try a skew on the next one.  

Thanks everybody.


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