# My COMPLETED First Kitless.



## wizard (Aug 18, 2011)

Thought I'd post a work in progress. Made this over the space of two mornings. It's my first kitless with our triple start tap and die. It's a double closed end fountain pen made from a Burgundy acrylic. Has an ElGrande front section to which I substituted a Heritance medium nib. Still trying to finish an acceptable and intact  front section.  Will post better pictures when I finish the front section. By the way,  this creation would definitely not have happened without Justin (TimeBandit) who has been my mentor and teacher.  Thanks so much Justin. Comments welcome but most of all thanks for just looking. Doc

8/19/2011 Made Front Section this A.M. Didn't want to start a new thread just to show the front section :biggrin:. Doc


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## Rounder (Aug 18, 2011)

Looking good Doc. Very nice on the first try.


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## Curly (Aug 18, 2011)

I hope my first looks as nice.


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## bluwolf (Aug 18, 2011)

I think you're off to a great start! Nice and clean looking and the threads look look very well done.


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## witz1976 (Aug 18, 2011)

Wow, great looking pen there Doc!


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## ToddMR (Aug 18, 2011)

Doc that is a really nice kitless.  The proportions look right to me.  The blank is really nice as well.  Good job!


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## beachlover (Aug 18, 2011)

It's beautiful! Well done!


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## hewunch (Aug 18, 2011)

Nothing wrong with that! Great job.


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## omb76 (Aug 18, 2011)

That looks great Doc!  The threads are some of the nicest and cleanest that I have seen done.  Congrats on such an accomplishment!


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## BRobbins629 (Aug 18, 2011)

That's one to be proud of.  Very nice for #1.


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## Dalecamino (Aug 18, 2011)

Looks good from here Doc. Congratulations!


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## turbowagon (Aug 18, 2011)

Looks great, Doc!  Keep trying the front section.... took me about 4 or 5 attempts before I got the hang of it.  Not much thickness in the walls when you're using the 12mm triple-start combined with a #6 nib.  I find drilling the cap with a 29/64" bit works great and allows for a little more clearance for the section (compared w/ a 7/16" bit).  Just be sure your male threads outside diameter isn't much below 12mm if drilling with the 29/64".

Looking forward to seeing more kitless pens from you!

- Joe


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## dgscott (Aug 18, 2011)

Great work, Doc. You're on your way....
Doug


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## Timebandit (Aug 18, 2011)

There it is!!!!!! Congrats Doc!!!:biggrin: After seeing the pics you sent me yesterday i was anxious for you to post it!!! Like i said yesterday, this looks great and i am really happy for you!! Your threads look great!!! Now get to work on that section!!! I know its the hardest part and takes the longest, but just hang in there and you will have them in no time. Ether way, I am really proud of you. This is great for your first one!!:biggrin:

PS: It was a pleasure to be a part of this pen, as i wouldnt have made the front page without you Doc!!:redface::biggrin:


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## PaulDoug (Aug 18, 2011)

You are now a "penmaker".   I turn blanks and put kits together.  Great looking pen.


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## Katsin (Aug 18, 2011)

Looking good.


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## el_d (Aug 18, 2011)

Great job Doc. Your picking up well grasshopper....

You got a great Sensea.....


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## Brooks803 (Aug 18, 2011)

Excellent 1st try Doc! I know exactly what you mean with the front section, those really are a pain. Keep it up and I look forward to the finished piece!


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## cnirenberg (Aug 18, 2011)

Doc,
Well done.  That is a sharp looking pen.  Nice shape, clean cut threads.  I would say that you are off to a sweet start.


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## seamus7227 (Aug 18, 2011)

thoroughly impressive Doc!!! I hope to try that one day as well!


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## Rick P (Aug 18, 2011)

Wonderful!......course we will be holding you to a higher standard now. ;>)


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## bitshird (Aug 18, 2011)

Nice way to start doing kitless, it's a really nice looking pen Doc!!!


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## Simplex (Aug 18, 2011)

Great!  I like the incorporation of the "off-the-shelf" front section.  This is just a matter of preference, but I think it gives it a more professional and sleek look.  Where did you get it at?  I know I have seen them for sale, I just can't remember where.


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## mrburls (Aug 18, 2011)

So does this mean we only get to see a AM pen every other day now :frown: 

Threads look very nice and clean. You do a fine job on your first kitless pen Doc 

Keith "mrburls"


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## simomatra (Aug 18, 2011)

Beautiful work Doc, I hope my first is as good as that one, I have the gear now just need the time.

That one is definitely a keeper


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## boxerman (Aug 18, 2011)

Very fine looking pen.


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## johncrane (Aug 18, 2011)

Well done Doc! looks really good.:biggrin:


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## PR_Princess (Aug 18, 2011)

Looks like Justin is not only a good teacher, but that he a had a great student too! Really nice Doc!!!!


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## workinforwood (Aug 19, 2011)

Looks super, congrats Doc!


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## rizaydog (Aug 19, 2011)

It's beautiful Doc! Well done!


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## Andrew_K99 (Aug 19, 2011)

Great looking pen Doc.  I think I'm going to have to try a 'kitless' at some point.

AK


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## wizard (Aug 19, 2011)

*Thank You! ...and I finished the pen!*

Thank you all for the kind comments and encouragement. I really appreciate it! 

I finished the pen !!!  and added to this post rather than start a new one.
Doc


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## turbowagon (Aug 19, 2011)

The finished pen looks great!


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## Timebandit (Aug 19, 2011)

That section looks great Doc!! Good job!!


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## Dalecamino (Aug 19, 2011)

There you go Doc. It looks like you've been doing this forever. That Justin guy is a darn good teacher. :biggrin: I really like the pen and great choice of material. Again, congratulations!:good:


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## wizard (Aug 19, 2011)

*Thank You Justin !!*



Timebandit said:


> That section looks great Doc!! Good job!!



Justin,
There isn't a chance in the world that I could have accomplished this without your teaching, patience and guidance. Knowledge is the most sacred of gifts and I cannot express enough how much I appreciate it!!
Thank you!!
Doc


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## philb (Aug 19, 2011)

Looks 100% better with the matching section, and it looked excellent before! haha


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## Rounder (Aug 19, 2011)

Not a thing wrong with that Doc. Really looks great with the matching section. And it makes me very proud that my son was able to teach and guide you in the way to do this. I hope to be able to do half as good as him once I acquire all the dies and tools I need to do this. You keep this up and you and Justin will be taking turns on the FRONT PAGE!!!:biggrin:


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## Dan_F (Aug 19, 2011)

Very nice indeed!

Dan


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## Toni (Aug 19, 2011)

Great looking pen Doc!!!! Way to go


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## gwilki (Aug 19, 2011)

Well done, Doc. The grip looks perfect.


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## EarlD (Aug 19, 2011)

Excellent!


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## maxman400 (Aug 20, 2011)

Amazing work for your first time Doc.


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## mrburls (Aug 20, 2011)

That really finished the pen off Doc. Looks great. 

Keith "mrburls"


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## wizard (Aug 21, 2011)

Simplex said:


> Great!*  I like the incorporation of the "off-the-shelf" front section.*  This is just a matter of preference, but I think it gives it a more professional and sleek look.*  Where did you get it at?  I know I have seen them for sale, I just can't remember where*.



Gary, Thank you. I'm sorry I didn't notice your question earlier..The off the shelf front section is one I borrowed from an El Grande kit that I had. I just switched out the stock nib for a Heritance. I'm not sure where you can get the nib, feed, housing and front section that all come together. I'm sure there is someone on the Forum that would probably know. Doc


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## Simplex (Aug 22, 2011)

wizard said:


> Simplex said:
> 
> 
> > Great!*  I like the incorporation of the "off-the-shelf" front section.*  This is just a matter of preference, but I think it gives it a more professional and sleek look.*  Where did you get it at?  I know I have seen them for sale, I just can't remember where*.
> ...



Doc -

No problem.  I actually did some hunting around after I posted this question and found (I think) a couple sources for the front section only:

http://www.bereahardwoods.com/pen-kit/sets/Nib_El_Grande_type_medium.html

http://www.beartoothwoods.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=35_39

http://www.arizonasilhouetteinc.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1060

Looking forward to seeing more of your kitless work!


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## Lenny (Aug 22, 2011)

Well done, Doc!


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## PenMan1 (Aug 22, 2011)

Doc, they just kep getting better and better!  I wake up each morning hoping to see a new Wizard post. EXCELLENT WORK! I am a "clip guy", simply because otherwise I lose them. IMHO, a clip would ruin the look of this beauty!


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## JeffT (Aug 22, 2011)

That's a beauty! When going kitless like this, does the shaped pen still have enough beef to be durable or does the shell become delicate/brittle. I would be nervous as heck to have a beautiful pen like that and even think about dropping it!


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## wizard (Aug 23, 2011)

Jeff,
Most everything I've learned is from Justin (Timebandit).I'll ask Justin to comment on what he thinks about the durability because I'm still a novice.  I've only made one kitless pen so with that in mind I can tell  you what I think. The body of the pen has a outer diameter of 14 mm and the inner diameter of 9 mm leaving a wall thickness of 5mm near the central portion of the cap. The cap has an outer diameter at 16 mm with inner diameter of around 10.2 mm. The walls decrease in thickness with the taper toward the ends but still seem sturdy enough. The major problem or weak area that I see is the thinner area at the threads on the body of the pen holding the section. Justin gave me a kitless pen similar to this for my birthday and it rolled off a dresser dropped about 4 feet onto a wooden floor and the pen broke at the threads. :redface:. 
Regards, Doc


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## OKLAHOMAN (Aug 23, 2011)

Doc, your early morning posts just start my day off along with a cup of coffee. Each morning I need my coffee and Wizard fix. This one is a must see when we see you in October.


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## Rounder (Aug 23, 2011)

wizard said:


> Jeff,
> Most everything I've learned is from Justin (Timebandit).I'll ask Justin to comment on what he thinks about the durability because I'm still a novice.  I've only made one kitless pen so with that in mind I can tell  you what I think. The body of the pen has a outer diameter of 14 mm and the inner diameter of 9 mm leaving a wall thickness of 5mm near the central portion of the cap. The cap has an outer diameter at 16 mm with inner diameter of around 10.2 mm. The walls decrease in thickness with the taper toward the ends but still seem sturdy enough. The major problem or weak area that I see is the thinner area at the threads on the body of the pen holding the section. Justin gave me a kitless pen similar to this for my birthday and it rolled off a dresser dropped about 4 feet onto a wooden floor and the pen broke at the threads. :redface:.
> Regards, Doc



I had the same thing happen on a pen Timebandit gave his Mom for Mother's Day. I admired the pen, then laid it on a table and turned away. I suddenly saw parts flying and the pen had rolled off and broke at the thread area. Made me feel about a half inch high to break such a beautiful gift.:frown: That is one of the ONLY reasons I can see adding a clip to these beauties. So I make it a point NOT to lay my clipless FP down unless I am POSITIVE it can not roll off and break. I keep it in my pants pocket when not in use.


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## Timebandit (Aug 23, 2011)

JeffT said:


> That's a beauty! When going kitless like this, does the shaped pen still have enough beef to be durable or does the shell become delicate/brittle. I would be nervous as heck to have a beautiful pen like that and even think about dropping it!





wizard said:


> Jeff,
> Most everything I've learned is from Justin (Timebandit).I'll ask Justin to comment on what he thinks about the durability because I'm still a novice.  I've only made one kitless pen so with that in mind I can tell  you what I think. The body of the pen has a outer diameter of 14 mm and the inner diameter of 9 mm leaving a wall thickness of 5mm near the central portion of the cap. The cap has an outer diameter at 16 mm with inner diameter of around 10.2 mm. The walls decrease in thickness with the taper toward the ends but still seem sturdy enough. The major problem or weak area that I see is the thinner area at the threads on the body of the pen holding the section. Justin gave me a kitless pen similar to this for my birthday and it rolled off a dresser dropped about 4 feet onto a wooden floor and the pen broke at the threads. :redface:.
> Regards, Doc





Rounder said:


> I had the same thing happen on a pen Timebandit gave his Mom for Mother's Day. I admired the pen, then laid it on a table and turned away. I suddenly saw parts flying and the pen had rolled off and broke at the thread area. Made me feel about a half inch high to break such a beautiful gift.:frown: That is one of the ONLY reasons I can see adding a clip to these beauties. So I make it a point NOT to lay my clipless FP down unless I am POSITIVE it can not roll off and break. I keep it in my pants pocket when not in use.



Jeff,

As you can see from these two accounts, these pens are not invencible. Nor is a MontBlanc, Parker, Swan or any other pen that is made in this fashion without the reinforcement of the brass tubs inside and all metal fittings for threads and such. That being said, many kit pens have met there fate with a fall or drop as well. CA can easily crack or chip as well as the wood underneath with the right fall. The threads are going to be the weak area on any pen of this sort. I have a few design changes that are going to strengthen the body a little more as well as starting to use the new 14mm tap & die set i just got which is going to add more meat at the threaded area. Again, with the right fall these pens WILL break, but with a little TLC, these pens should last for many many years with no problems.

PS: Doc, your measurements are a little off there on the cap:biggrin: The cap outer is more around 15.5mm and the inner is 11.2 not 10.2:tongue: Good answer though. Spoken like a true professional:wink:


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