# A couple more cartridge pens



## Sylvanite (Mar 10, 2008)

I wasn't going to post these pics here, but a couple of members saw them in my album and asked questions.  I'd rather share information with everyone, though, so I changed my mind.

I've shown similar pens before, but here are two more antler/cartridge slimlines.  One is 308 Winchester caliber and the other is 7mm Remington Magnum.  The 7mm cartridge and all the antler came from the customer.



 



To those who sent me emails, please ask again here so everybody can benefit from the discussion.

Regards,
Eric


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## Tanner (Mar 10, 2008)

Now those are pretty sweet looking Eric!!  It looks like you used a part of the casing for the centerband too.  Hidden clip too!!  Excellent execution!!


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## Rmartin (Mar 10, 2008)

Thanks for posting. I saw this and was hoping you had started a thread. I'm not sure how much you want to share, but I have questions concerning the upper barrel.

Did you turn a tenon and then glue the top on after it was turned?

Did you use the 'hook' method with the recessed clip on the silver one and wrap it around the tube?

I had the bullet size for the 308 at one time, but I seem to have misplaced it, what bullet is used?

Thanks for any info you'd like to share, and, oh, they sure look nice!


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## Dalecamino (Mar 10, 2008)

Very nice pens !![8D]


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## R2 (Mar 10, 2008)

Nicepens. Not a fan of bullet pens but those are quite good.[]


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## Sylvanite (Mar 11, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Tanner_
> 
> It looks like you used a part of the casing for the centerband too.


Yes.  I cut the cases into 4 parts - finial, centerband, waste, and nib.  This makes the upper barrel nearly straight, and gives the lower barrel a slight taper.

I seated the bullet in the 308 cartridge before cutting, and the 7mm afterwards.  That was simply because the 308 was a press fit, and I have dies for it.  The 7mm round I started with had a loose fitting bullet from the manufacturer.  I was able to reinsert the bullet by hand and I glued it in place (after powder-coating).


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## Sylvanite (Mar 11, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Rmartin_
> 
> Did you turn a tenon and then glue the top on after it was turned?


Yes.  There are tenons on both ends of each barrel.  The tenons at the nib and finial are tapered to mate the inside of the case.  The finial end tenon length is such that it presses against the clip.  The nib end tenon length is not critical, but still important to keep the lower barrel overall length (including nib) correct.  The centerbands are not glued on, but held in place by short tenons on both barrels.

These pens took a lot of measuring and test-fitting.



> Did you use the 'hook' method with the recessed clip on the silver one and wrap it around the tube?


Yes and no.  the recessed portion of the clip is cut into a hook shape as described by Bill Jackman in http://content.penturners.org/articles/2006/recessedpf.pdf.  The hook does not, however, wrap around the tube.  Instead, the clip is pressed between the end of the tenon and the case web (the solid brass part of the case head) and glued in place.



> I had the bullet size for the 308 at one time, but I seem to have misplaced it, what bullet is used?


The bullet in the 308 Winchester pen started out as a .308 168g Hornady A-Max.  The bullet in the 7mm Remington Magnum pen was whatever Remington used in their commercial ammo.

The tip of the A-Max is pretty strong, so I was able to glue the pieces together before seating the transmission.  The Remington bullet, however, has a soft tip so I had to seat the transmission before gluing the brass to the antler.

I hope that helps,
Eric


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## Jim15 (Mar 11, 2008)

Hi Eric,
   What do you find the best way to cut the cartridges?

Thanks,


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## Sylvanite (Mar 11, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Jim15_
> 
> What do you find the best way to cut the cartridges?


The last several cases I've cut with a harbor freight mini cut-off saw http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=42307. using homemade jigs to hold the cases.  Before that, I cut them on the lathe.

Cutting on the lathe works quite well, especially if you have a collet chuck.  Use a skew, pointed scraper, or cut-off tool to part off the brass.  A scraper will clean and true the edge nicely.

I switched to the cut-off saw for two reasons:
1) I wanted to make pens with angle-cut cases, such as:




2) I was looking for a less labor-intensive cut.  I'm planning to offer cut cartridges for sale alongside the slimline and cigar pen cartridges I sell now.  I think using the saw and jig may enable me to sell a cut-case-kit at a reasonable price.

Regards,
Eric


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## Rmartin (Mar 11, 2008)

Thanks very much! That was very helpful.


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## Ozzy (Mar 13, 2008)

The pens look great. Thanks for sharing the info.


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## Jim15 (Mar 13, 2008)

Thanks for the response Eric, very informative. By the way your pens look great.


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## brokenbit (Mar 13, 2008)

Is that a live primmer in the last 2 pens


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## Sylvanite (Mar 14, 2008)

> _Originally posted by brokenbit_
> 
> Is that a live primmer in the last 2 pens



No.  The primers are fired - just not dimpled by a firing pin.  

My personal esthetic preference is for the unfired look.  To my eye, a dimpled primer cup just doesn't look right with the bullet present for the nib.  Safety precludes the use of live primers, so I fire them - just not in the traditional way 

Regards,
Eric


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## brokenbit (Mar 14, 2008)

please explain how you fire a primer without dimpling it

Bernie


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## Sylvanite (Mar 14, 2008)

> _Originally posted by brokenbit_
> 
> please explain how you fire a primer without dimpling it



The short answer is that I "cook off" the primers.  Unless you already know how to do this safely, don't.

Please forgive me, but I am not comfortable sharing the full details of the process.  There are a couple of steps that are generally considered dangerous.  I'm satisfied that my safety precautions are sufficient, but I don't want my description to lead to someone else's injury.

As a reloader, I won't use, nor share load data on the internet.  Even if intents are honest all the way around, there's just too great a chance that a mistake will lead to disaster.  I view this case in the same light.

Sorry,
Eric


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## brokenbit (Mar 14, 2008)

I don't feel that an unfired primer is a good idea.


 What wood law enforcement think when they saw this pen with a unfired primer.

I sure wood not go to the airport with this pen in my pocket

Bernie


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## jackrichington (Mar 15, 2008)

I have reloaded for 30 yrs. It is my understanding that you can deactivate a primer by soaking it in WD40...spray it into casing and let it soak into primer, or if primer loose, just spray it heavily...Might save you from hurting yourself, by cooking off..YIKES


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## Sylvanite (Mar 17, 2008)

> _Originally posted by jackrichington_
> 
> I have reloaded for 30 yrs. It is my understanding that you can deactivate a primer by soaking it in WD40...spray it into casing and let it soak into primer, or if primer loose, just spray it heavily...Might save you from hurting yourself, by cooking off..YIKES



I've reloaded for several years as well, and have often heard claims that WD-40 deactivates primers.  I don't, however, fully believe that.  I cerainly don't trust WD-40 enough to depend on it.  I once ran across a fellow reloader who conducted a little experiment.  He dumped a box of primers into a jar of WD-40 and let them soak.  Every so often, he would take a few out, let them dry, load ammunition with them and fire them.  The last I heard, he was up to 6 months of soaking and not a single one failed to fire.

Personally, I suspect the entire "oil contamination" issue was just an excuse used by primer manufacturers to excuse failures in their product.  I don't find primers to be nearly as delicate as they are made out to be.  I've handled many thousands of them without any failures.  The single biggest (perhaps only) cause of misfires and hangfires I've seen is a weak firing pin strke.

I do take multiple precautions with primers.  One such, for example:  when cooking off the primer, I place it in a vented lexan containment.  That shields me from the blast and catches the anvil when it flies out of the primer cup.  Even so, I still wear protective clothing - including  safety glasses and muffs (and I look the other way).  I respect the explosive nature of primers and believe I am processing them safely.  I don't encourage anybody to handle them like I do without developing your own safety procedures first.

Regards,
Eric


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## Sylvanite (Mar 17, 2008)

> _Originally posted by brokenbit_
> 
> 
> I don't feel that an unfired primer is a good idea.


I certainly agree that a live primer is a bad idea.  I think the difference between an empty dimpled primer cup and an empty undimpled primer cup, is an esthetic one.  The major downside to an undimpled primer cup, is that I have to keep explaining that the primer is not live.



> What wood law enforcement think when they saw this pen with a unfired primer.


Well, in these particular pens, there is no wood present, so I don't think wood law, or wood law enforcement is an issue .  Seriously though, anybody knowledgeable enough to recognize a firing pin indent should also understand that the remaining components are now a pen, not ammunition.



> I sure wood not go to the airport with this pen in my pocket


Neither would I.  I also wouldn't go through airport security with a fountain pen, tie-tac, or congressional medal of honor.  I prefer to protect my valued possesions from dangerous places like airports.  My real worry with a cartridge pen, though, is that it might set off a nitrate sniffer - not that a TSA employee can't recognize a pen.

Regards,
Eric


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## jackrichington (Mar 17, 2008)

Eric..thank you for the education..I was educated to believe the wd40 would work, and I went thru the world with that belief..My concern for cooking off was for your safety, and glad to see you are taking the proper steps to keep yourself safe.  I like your pens very much


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## TAFFJ (Mar 17, 2008)

Very impressive! Sadly I could not expand the pictures for a closer look!


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## rhahnfl (Mar 17, 2008)

Nice work as always Eric. How do you cut the brass so neatly and squarely without damaging it?


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## Sylvanite (Mar 18, 2008)

> _Originally posted by rhahnfl_
> 
> How do you cut the brass so neatly and squarely without damaging it?


I've tried several methods.  Of them all, only two have worked acceptably well for me.  A couple others were spectacular failures.

The best method I can recommend is to cut on the lathe.  The best tool I can recommend for this purpose is the Beall collet chuck.  A 1/2 inch collet will hold a 308/30-06 case securely and concentrically without marring it.  A 5/16 collet will do the same for a .308 caliber bullet.  You can make a wood collet to fit in a scroll chuck.  I did that before I bought the Beall but I won't go back.  I wouldn't be making and selling cartridges for pens without the Beall collet chuck.

Mount the case in the chuck, turn at low speed, and you can part the brass squarely with a pointed scraper, parting tool, skew point, or even a hacksaw (held under the piece so it pulls away from you).  Cut a little long.  Then clean, true, and deburr the edge with a scraper.

I hope that helps,
Eric


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## rhahnfl (Mar 18, 2008)

Sure does!! Thanks!! Your multipart cartridge pens are so nice looking.


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## Johnathan (Mar 19, 2008)

I really not a fan at all of the cartridge pens but I actually really like these. Nice jobe. I'd love to see them in a resin or wood too.


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## DKF (Mar 20, 2008)

You make some of the nicest cartridge pens around!


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