# My method of photo'ing a pen



## SDB777

While there are several methods I've tried, I have only found one way to take a photo that most truely looks like the pen as I see it. So, let's get started.


First thing you'll need is a good, solid tripod. Not one of those cheap Wal-Mart things, but something rock solid! Can't stress this enough....solid!!! But the good thing is, you don't need a super-wizz-bangin' camera. I've used anything from a 3.1M Kodak C330, 14.0M Kodak C1485IS, 10.0M Canon SX10IS, or even my 14.1M Sony a350 w/50mm f2.8 EX Macro lense....anything works as long as you can manipulate the EV setting. The camera needs to be set on a moderate f-stop. Something around f/8 to f/11 to get the proper depth of field.


Get the pen set. Don't move it!


What you need to do:

Camera set on tripod, focused on the centerband of the pen(everything should be well focused---if the pen is focused on the centerband and the nib/cap seem out of focus, move the tripod back and re-focus...this should increase the area that is focused-DOF), move the EV setting to 1-2/3 stop negative value...click(preferrably using the timer function to reduce camera shake). Now, adjust the EV setting to 0(zero) value....click. And lastly, adjust the EV setting to 1-2/3 stop positive value...click.
What you just did is to get a higher dynamic range of the pen being photo'd. How do you get the most from your efforts? First you'll need to download the photo's into your computer....then the hard part. Open a program called PhotoMatix Light, click Browse and select the three photo's you just took. The program will open back up with your three photo's and another photo that has the word Next under it...click it.
A few moments later a screen showing your pen with the three photo's blended together. At this point I use the icon on the top left of the screen saying Exposure Fusion....Process & Save(click), create a file name and your done!

At this point you could simply load the photo into whatever software you use to adjust sharpness, brightness, or whatever...and tweak it a little.(I normally crop and add text in Picasa, sometime I add a border in PhotoShop....) Load the photo into PhotoBucket, or whatever you use and share!!









Links for programs:
Photomatix software 
Picasa 
Photobucket 

(Disclaimer: I have no monetary ties to any of the above links, I use them and like them. And just wanted to save you a few moments if your looking for them)




Scott (hope you find this helpful) B


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## mredburn

Thanks for the tip, My wife uses this for senic shots but I never thought of using it for pens. I will try it tonight.  
Mike


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## rjwolfe3

I understood half of that. You lost me at EV lol. But you do take amazing photos!


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## Stevej72

Scott, thanks for the info.  I will give it a try.


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## wb7whi

You can also do the entire process in photoshop. It is an interesting technique that I have just started to play with. 
Instead of using EV settings most of today's cameras will automatically take 3 frames at once bracketing the initial exposure.


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## SDB777

True, PhotoShop can do this.  But at a much higher cost.  I've used that method, but was discouraged by the overly 'cooked' imagines....

EV = Exposure Value
This can also be changed by adjusting the shutter speed, but more movement of dials on the camera can cause troubles(you need to be sure the camera doesn't move).

Another example:
EV = 0
f/11
shutter speed = 1/125

to get the EV to change to EV -2(that's negative two) you need to change the shutter speed to 1/500
to get the EV to change to EV +2(that's positive two) you need to change the shutter speed to 1/30

Just be sure while your changing things, your doing it carefully and that the lighting doesn't change(if your outside).  Also, be sure you do not adjust the f-stop(f/11 or whatever you have it set at)!


Yes, I use this processing method for 'scenic shots', but I was wondering about the pens....mostly the really dark wood that doesn't show well under typical photo'ing.  So I tried it, and it looked really good....on everything!
The method is actually considered HDR Photography.


If anyone has any questions.....ask away!!!




Scott (trying to help is all) B


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## markgum

thanks for the info.


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## fernhills

Well how do you get glare out, looks like you have trees in your pen.


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## Lenny

That's very interesting. Thanks for sharing!


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## azamiryou

Great idea! My photo software has this feature for things like indoor shots where you can see the bright outside, but I never thought to use it on pens. I'll have to try it.

Heck, I already have 3 different exposures of most of my shots anyway, since I use auto-bracketing in hopes of finding the "best" exposure.


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## SDB777

fernhills said:


> Well how do you get glare out, looks like you have trees in your pen.


 
That my friend is the biggest downfall of shooting outside.  I've attempted to take the light tent outside to use the great effect from the sun, but it seems that the best plans are always overshadowed by a greater power....wind.
You could use PhotoShop, but there is always a downside to that.  Long hours of staring at pixels and masking isn't what I'd call a fun day, but it can be done.

The easiest way to fix the problem would be to get the light tent set-up, buy a bunch of Daylight halogens/tubes and make a holder to keep them in a fixed position.  If you have the room to do this(a spare bedroom/den/whatever) would be great, but I just don't have the room available to leave the set-up in place.(Although the more I think of it....)


Scott (a trip to HomeDepot might be in my future) B


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## SDB777

azamiryou said:


> Great idea! My photo software has this feature for things like indoor shots where you can see the bright outside, but I never thought to use it on pens. I'll have to try it.
> 
> Heck, I already have 3 different exposures of most of my shots anyway, since I use auto-bracketing in hopes of finding the "best" exposure.


 

I've tried this with Auto-Bracketing, but ended up just going fully manual to get the wider range. The camera I have with AB on it only shoots -2/3, 0, +2/3 and can't be changed(go figure).


A little off topic(but it's my topic)....
If you leave your camera set in Auto, and use the AB feature...I bet the better exposure is the top(higher EV) against a white background. This happens due to the camera trying to find a 'neutral gray'.
To defeat the camera giving up just one good photo...
Set camera up on Auto, half-press the shutter and write down(or remember) the camera settings. Switch the camera to shutter(S) and setting the camera to a slower shutter to let more light in...probably two or three stops faster. (Instead of a shutter speed of 1/125, set it to 1/30 or 1/15 and try the AB feature at that setting!)




Scott (cameras are fun) B


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## fernhills

SDB777 said:


> fernhills said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well how do you get glare out, looks like you have trees in your pen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That my friend is the biggest downfall of shooting outside.  I've attempted to take the light tent outside to use the great effect from the sun, but it seems that the best plans are always overshadowed by a greater power....wind.
> You could use PhotoShop, but there is always a downside to that.  Long hours of staring at pixels and masking isn't what I'd call a fun day, but it can be done.
> 
> The easiest way to fix the problem would be to get the light tent set-up, buy a bunch of Daylight halogens/tubes and make a holder to keep them in a fixed position.  If you have the room to do this(a spare bedroom/den/whatever) would be great, but I just don't have the room available to leave the set-up in place.(Although the more I think of it....)
> 
> 
> Scott (a trip to HomeDepot might be in my future) B
Click to expand...


 One way to augment the bright sun light is to shoot on a cloudy or over cast day. On a cloudy day mother nature is brighter then the most brightest bulbs. If i want to shoot and it is sunny out and i don`t want to wait till the sun moves around, i get a sheet and make a tent by throwing the sheet over the picnic table umbrella.  I have a photo box set up, so i don`t have to do that now.  Good luck.


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## johnspensandmore

You lost me at "My method"!


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## PTownSubbie

You discussed being able to do this in Photoshop. Please do share. I haven't heard of such a feature but I am rather new to this....

Thanks!!


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## lazylathe

AWESOME!! thanks Scott!!

Will be using this to see if i can be a superstar like you!:biggrin:

Thanks for all the tips!

Andrew


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## SDB777

PTownSubbie said:


> You discussed being able to do this in Photoshop. Please do share. I haven't heard of such a feature but I am rather new to this....
> 
> Thanks!!


 
PhotoShop Elements 8 is supposed to be able to do this(I use No#6-I really need to upgrade, but I'm super cheap).  And I've been told that HDR is a standard feature in the newest version of Lightroom 3, and PhotoShop CS5....
I've seen the results from Lightroom3(friend has it loaded and running), but I didn't pay too much attention to his workflow.  And I don't know anyone personally using CS5....can't help there.


I've tried to 'layer' the three photo's with different EV settings in PS Elements No#6, but the outcome was less then blah...it sucked!



If anyone knows the 'workflow' for LR3 or CS5 for doing HDR images....please share!!!





Scott (sorry I couldn't help more for this question) B


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## SDB777

lazylathe said:


> AWESOME!! thanks Scott!!
> 
> Will be using this to see if i can be a superstar like you!:biggrin:
> 
> Thanks for all the tips!
> 
> Andrew


 


Superstar.......Holy Moses!!   Not me!!!!!


Just trying to share something that could possibly help your photo's for websites or whatnot....  Some of the best light tent photo's I've seen still don't really compare to what you 'see' when you hold the pen(at least that's my experience)....



Scott (advise is always free) B


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## PTownSubbie

SDB777 said:


> PhotoShop Elements 8 is supposed to be able to do this(I use No#6-I really need to upgrade, but I'm super cheap). And I've been told that HDR is a standard feature in the newest version of Lightroom 3, and PhotoShop CS5....
> I've seen the results from Lightroom3(friend has it loaded and running), but I didn't pay too much attention to his workflow. And I don't know anyone personally using CS5....can't help there.
> 
> 
> I've tried to 'layer' the three photo's with different EV settings in PS Elements No#6, but the outcome was less then blah...it sucked!
> 
> 
> 
> If anyone knows the 'workflow' for LR3 or CS5 for doing HDR images....please share!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scott (sorry I couldn't help more for this question) B


 
Just did a google search since you stated the technique. HDR is capable in Photoshop. Link: http://www.photoshopcafe.com/tutorials/HDR_ps/hdr-ps.htm

Now I need to give it a try!! Hopefully my shots come out as good as yours did!!

Thanks for the tip Scott!


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## SDB777

I hope everyone that reads this gives it a 'shot'!!!

Not only will you learn a new, and simple tool to make your pens look like what they really look like.  It'll give you a 'step-up' in the photos on your website, Esty, eBay or whatever over the competition!


PTownSubbie,
Sure would like to see your results when you get some?!?!?!?



Scott (and everyone else too) B


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## PTownSubbie

SDB777 said:


> PTownSubbie,
> Sure would like to see your results when you get some?!?!?!?


 
Need to put together a simple light box first....


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## lazylathe

*My first attempt!*

Well this is my first attemp at using your method.
Came out a lot better than my normal pics!!

The Gemstone shop pencil is done using Photomatix and Irfanview.
I had to try it out tonight, so turned it up quick!






The celtic knot pen was done using just Irfanview.






I can see the difference!!

Thanks a ton for the lesson Scott!!!

Andrew


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## SDB777

Think your in the club now!!!


Scott (awesome photo) B


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## SDB777

Anyone else have questions?



Scott (gonna make a pen now) B


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## wb7whi

Just found this site and watched the tutorials for using it...

http://www.hdrsoft.com/

It is designed specifically for hdr photography and can stand alone or be intregrated into photoshop. Not sure if the cheaper version will integrate into elements or not but that would be ok anyway. 

I think I will have to own it


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## jttheclockman

lazylathe said:


> Well this is my first attemp at using your method.
> Came out a lot better than my normal pics!!
> 
> The Gemstone shop pencil is done using Photomatix and Irfanview.
> I had to try it out tonight, so turned it up quick!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The celtic knot pen was done using just Irfanview.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can see the difference!!
> 
> Thanks a ton for the lesson Scott!!!
> 
> Andrew


 

I guess my eye is not trained enough to see a difference. Maybe you could put both photos side by side using a standard photo and this method and show us the difference. I would think something like you are experimenting with is worth the time on outdoor events but a single pen in the same light is not worth the effort in my opinion. Put it in one of those photo programs and adjust the shades of light or contrast that way. Just my opinion. Nice pens by the way.


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## azamiryou

*Direct comparison*

The first attachment is from a single exposure. I used software to adjust the highlight/midtone/shadow as best I can.

The second attachment is from 3 exposures (the middle one is the first attachment; the others are EV +/- 1.3), automatically generated by my HDR software with some manual optimization.

Comparing them, I find the HDR photo to be a slight improvement. The difference is most visible in the wood grain at the CB end of the cap, where more detail is visible in the HDR photo than the single exposure.

The other difference is that the HDR photo was faster to make due to more automation. My camera has an auto-bracketing function, and I can set the EV variation for it, and my software can do HDR with just a few clicks. Manually adjusting the HDR image to optimize it seemed easier; with the single exposure, it was finicky, and a change to improve one area tended to degrade another.

If my camera didn't have a lot of auto-bracket flexibility, or if I didn't have a tripod, I'd probably stick with the single-exposure method. But for me and my tools, HDR seems like it'll get me slightly better images with slightly less work.

Camera: Pentax Optio 555
Software: Corel PhotoImpact X3 (formerly Ulead PhotoImpact)


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## SDB777

Very cool Matthew!

Can definitely tell the difference, much better...and I'm glad it's something simple for ya!



Scott (grain is poppin') B


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## DKF

Thanks......going to give it a try......isn't PhotoMatix Light a pay for program?  It says if you use it in the trial form, it will add a watermark to your photos.  Am I missing something?


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## SDB777

DKF said:


> Thanks......going to give it a try......isn't PhotoMatix Light a pay for program? It says if you use it in the trial form, it will add a watermark to your photos. Am I missing something?


 

Yes, unfortunately, it's not free unless you want to have a watermark on the final product that says "PhotoMatix" across the photo(about three times).


Scott (cheaper then CS5 though) B


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## ThePenWizard

SDB777 said:


> While there are several methods I've tried, I have only found one way to take a photo that most truely looks like the pen as I see it. So, let's get started.
> 
> 
> First thing you'll need is a good, solid tripod. Not one of those cheap Wal-Mart things, but something rock solid! Can't stress this enough....solid!!! But the good thing is, you don't need a super-wizz-bangin' camera. I've used anything from a 3.1M Kodak C330, 14.0M Kodak C1485IS, 10.0M Canon SX10IS, or even my 14.1M Sony a350 w/50mm f2.8 EX Macro lense....anything works as long as you can manipulate the EV setting. The camera needs to be set on a moderate f-stop. Something around f/8 to f/11 to get the proper depth of field.
> 
> 
> Get the pen set. Don't move it!
> 
> 
> What you need to do:
> 
> Camera set on tripod, focused on the centerband of the pen(everything should be well focused---if the pen is focused on the centerband and the nib/cap seem out of focus, move the tripod back and re-focus...this should increase the area that is focused-DOF), move the EV setting to 1-2/3 stop negative value...click(preferrably using the timer function to reduce camera shake). Now, adjust the EV setting to 0(zero) value....click. And lastly, adjust the EV setting to 1-2/3 stop positive value...click.
> What you just did is to get a higher dynamic range of the pen being photo'd. How do you get the most from your efforts? First you'll need to download the photo's into your computer....then the hard part. Open a program called PhotoMatix Light, click Browse and select the three photo's you just took. The program will open back up with your three photo's and another photo that has the word Next under it...click it.
> A few moments later a screen showing your pen with the three photo's blended together. At this point I use the icon on the top left of the screen saying Exposure Fusion....Process & Save(click), create a file name and your done!
> 
> At this point you could simply load the photo into whatever software you use to adjust sharpness, brightness, or whatever...and tweak it a little.(I normally crop and add text in Picasa, sometime I add a border in PhotoShop....) Load the photo into PhotoBucket, or whatever you use and share!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Links for programs:
> Photomatix software
> Picasa
> Photobucket
> 
> (Disclaimer: I have no monetary ties to any of the above links, I use them and like them. And just wanted to save you a few moments if your looking for them)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scott (hope you find this helpful) B


 
Hey Scott
What font did you use on this photo?  THANKS for the heads up on Picasa.  Great program


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## Santacraig

*My issue is that when I try to upload pictures, I get a message that my file is too big.  Is there a way to shrink it down?*
*  I'm not an expert with this computin machine so instructions in English is what I need !!!*


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## randyrls

Santacraig said:


> *My issue is that when I try to upload pictures, I get a message that my file is too big.  Is there a way to shrink it down?*
> *  I'm not an expert with this computin machine so instructions in English is what I need !!!*



Craig, Sure, PM me with your software program.   Gimp is a good program and free to boot!


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## rjwolfe3

I use a free program that Curtis told me about called Fotosizer. The picture quality stays the same but the file size shrinks a lot.




Santacraig said:


> *My issue is that when I try to upload pictures, I get a message that my file is too big.  Is there a way to shrink it down?*
> *  I'm not an expert with this computin machine so instructions in English is what I need !!!*


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## Lenny

I use Picasa and Photoshop but I also have Image Re-sizer. Originally a part of Microsoft Power Toy add-ons, it is a free download for XP.  It is also available now for Vista/Win7 .. just not from Microsoft.   
http://www.vso-software.fr/products/image_resizer/
 It is super simple to use .... just right click on the file and you get a drop down menu of sizes to choose from.


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## DavidSpavin

*PS Elements 8*

If any one is interested this is how to do it in PSE8
1. Open the 3 files
2. Highlight all 3 in the Project Bin
3. On the file menu select NEW - Photomerge Exposure
 This then merges the 3 photos in to one, you can take control and do it manualy if you are feeling adventurous.


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## SDB777

DavidSpavin said:


> If any one is interested this is how to do it in PSE8
> 1. Open the 3 files
> 2. Highlight all 3 in the Project Bin
> 3. On the file menu select NEW - Photomerge Exposure
> This then merges the 3 photos in to one, you can take control and do it manualy if you are feeling adventurous.


 

Thanks for adding this.  I knew it was possible to do this, but my cheap butt hasn't upgraded my photoshop software.

Wondering?  Do you have a photo from the above process?



Scott (upgrades, they always get you on the upgrades) B


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## DavidSpavin

How about 4 photos. All of the same pen but with different backgrounds. Opinions on which works best would be appreciated.


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## SDB777

DavidSpavin said:


> How about 4 photos. All of the same pen but with different backgrounds. Opinions on which works best would be appreciated.


 
Normally I'd say white background, but seeing how these open against a black background when clicked on...they all work.

The first one works best for my eyes.  The silver parts of the pen blend in too much with the 2nd and 4th, and the 3rd has some sort of funny shimmer.  Were these all taken in a light tent?



Scott (too early for much more thought) B


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## DavidSpavin

Yes they are taken in a light tent with a Canon EOS550.


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## chrisk

IMHO, the 2d and 4th work better, for the background is more contrasted than 1st and 3d pics.


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## Atherton Pens

Thanks for sharing this.  I guess I'll have to get a better camera!  My old Minolta doesn't allow EV changes.
Gary


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## toolcrazy

wb7whi said:


> Just found this site and watched the tutorials for using it...
> 
> http://www.hdrsoft.com/
> 
> It is designed specifically for hdr photography and can stand alone or be intregrated into photoshop. Not sure if the cheaper version will integrate into elements or not but that would be ok anyway.
> 
> I think I will have to own it



If you can't afford the above program. This program was rated #1 for HDR in the shareware category. 

http://www.hdrlabs.com/picturenaut/


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## striperskin

1 catches my eye best


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## SDB777

Atherton Pens said:


> Thanks for sharing this. I guess I'll have to get a better camera! My old Minolta doesn't allow EV changes.
> Gary


 
Actually all cameras have EV's...some just are not labeled as such.  To change the EV value on a camera without the setting, it's nothing more then changing the shutter speed.

1/125 would equal EV = 0
1/60 would equal EV = 1
1/250 would equal EV = -1

Just remember to keep the Aperature constant!



Scott (had plenty of Minoltas) B


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## Spec Grade

SDB777 said:


> Anyone else have questions?
> Scott (gonna make a pen now) B


 
My only comment is thanks for the info. I will have to try it. And, this thread should be pegged so it's easily found.
Oh yeah, you take great pics of your pens as well.


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## PenMakerWillie

Thanks for the tips, I haven't been able to do anything with the software because of not having a tripod but still learned from what you had to say. Now that I have a tripod I'm going to be integrating the software and see what I come up with!


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## Nikitas

I will go and use these tip to see what I can do as well.....
Thanks,
Brian


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## avbill

Scott,  Are you using the Photomatix light or Photomatix Pro?


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## Rmartin

DavidSpavin said:


> How about 4 photos. All of the same pen but with different backgrounds. Opinions on which works best would be appreciated.


 

I think number 2 shows the best truest color of the pen parts, but I love love number 3! The mirror effect is fantastic. Is it on a mirror? Where does the background color come from? Very nice!


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## DavidSpavin

Rmartin said:


> I think number 2 shows the best truest color of the pen parts, but I love love number 3! The mirror effect is fantastic. Is it on a mirror? Where does the background color come from? Very nice!


 
Its actualy a piece of gold mirror card I stole from my wife's craft box, the last picture is on the same type of card only silver in colour.


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## SDB777

Bring this back around for those that are still wondering.....




Scott (perfect everytime) B


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## penhead

Thanks for the bump...seem to have missed this thread first time 'round.. %>)

I have LR2 and PS CS5...can't wait to get home and try this..!!!






SDB777 said:


> Bring this back around for those that are still wondering.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scott (perfect everytime) B


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## SDB777

penhead said:


> Thanks for the bump...seem to have missed this thread first time 'round.. %>)
> 
> I have LR2 and PS CS5...can't wait to get home and try this..!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SDB777 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bring this back around for those that are still wondering.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scott (perfect everytime) B
Click to expand...

 


Still interested in seeing others examples!

Scott


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## SDB777

Here's the latest bunch...

This one is a three frame interlaced using the standard 'default' setting:






Not sure how many times someone has wondered why dark timber never appears as it looks when photo'd. This one looks just like this photo!


This next one is five frames interlaced using the same standard 'default' setting:






The file is a little larger and took a few more seconds to load into PhotoBucket, but I'm thinking it's a little smoother? Still looks good enough to make me want to go and make another!



Feel free to ask questions, or if you need to vent about this type of photography.....

Scott (here to help) B


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## SDB777

Been awhile.....maybe someone new might enjoy this?



Scott (thanks for looking) B


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## azamiryou

Is this in the library? It oughta be.


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## SDB777

azamiryou said:


> Is this in the library? It oughta be.


 

I don't think so?  Converting regular topic stuff into PDF stuff isn't my 'cup-o-tea'.......





Scott (hmmm? tea) B


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## dgelnett

Have you ever tried to scan a pen with a copier on the computer? Someone  suggested that to me and when I tried it the color and lighting came out great but the focal point is right on the glass. So as the distance between the pen and the glass increased so did the out of focus. To bad there is not a way to change the F-stop.


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## SDB777

Couple of months have gone by, maybe a new 'eyeball' would enjoy?



Scott (thanks for the nice comments) B


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## its_virgil

SDB777 said:


> First thing you'll need is a good, solid tripod.


This is a really good point. Solid = no shaking. Shaking = blurry pictures. 
Excellent point.
 


SDB777 said:


> But the good thing is, you don't need a super-wizz-bangin' camera. I've used anything from a 3.1M Kodak C330, 14.0M Kodak C1485IS, 10.0M Canon SX10IS, or even my 14.1M Sony a350 w/50mm f2.8 EX Macro lense....anything works as long as you can manipulate the EV setting.


And another excellent point. Many posters in the SOYP forum are forever apologizing for the camera not being the newest and greatest. Newest and greatest is not needed. Learning to use the camera one has is the important part. 
 
Thanks for the post. You have given some excellent information and gotten many of us to look at our old camera in a new light. Now, where is that sony mavica and the floppy disks? ....Oh no, my computer will not accect a floppy disk.:biggrin::biggrin:
 
Do a good turn daily!
Don


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## jbswearingen

Here's my first attempt at it.  Easy peasey!

White tail antler:







Camera is my five year old Canon Rebel XTi, OEM lens.


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## lorbay

fernhills said:


> Well how do you get glare out, looks like you have trees in your pen.


 Ha Ha Ha trees it took me a while, I guess you are talking about the pen blank. Right.?
Lin


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## SDB777

Hasn't been bumped up for awhile, and someone new just might get a few good tips....never know?!?!?


Anyone else tried this method?  Got any more photo's using this method, I'd be happy to look too!






Scott (thanks for looking and happy photo'ing) B


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## sbarton22

Guess which method I am using....


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## butchf18a

SBD777 is correct in that Photomatix Elements (formerly Photomatix Light) is good, quickly downloadable program. It is not however free. You download a trial version which will put a Photomatix label over your photo until you pay the $99. Still it's a good program. Of course most any decent editing program will have HDR capabilities, admitedly not as simplified as PE. Check your software before you dish out another $100. That said.....

to avoid ghosts, a sturdy tripod is invaluable. If your camera has exposure compensation capabilities, use it. I've had good results with EV=0 +/- 2.0 as well as EV=0 +/- 1.0.


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## butchf18a

nice composition


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## SDB777

butchf18a said:


> SBD777 is correct in that Photomatix Elements (formerly Photomatix Light) is good, quickly downloadable program. It is not however free. You download a trial version which will put a Photomatix label over your photo until you pay the $99. Still it's a good program. Of course most any decent editing program will have HDR capabilities, admitedly not as simplified as PE. Check your software before you dish out another $100. That said.....
> 
> to avoid ghosts, a sturdy tripod is invaluable. If your camera has exposure compensation capabilities, use it. I've had good results with EV=0 +/- 2.0 as well as EV=0 +/- 1.0.


 


Thankfully, I never stated that any of the programs that were used in this quick 'tip' were free. I just stated that I didn't have any 'ties to them'....
And the latest version of say, Lightroom 3 is going for almost $300 and CS5 will set you back about $400....that said the $99 for Photomatix seemed like a deal(at least to me). True, maybe not for everyone....but if your using Picasa3(free), it doesn't have a way to 'blend an HDR'.


Setting just the EV to +2.0 will severely 'blowout' anything white or shiney. And with nothing to bring the photo 'back to neutral'....you'll just have a 'blah photo'.
I do complete agree with the tripod though....rock solid is best!







Scott (nothing is really free) B


----------



## SDB777

How about a bump for those that are just joining up here....


Remember, I'll answer any questions you might have about getting the photo's looking good!





Scott (trying to help) B


----------



## Knucklefish

*Noise reduction?*

Scott, do you use the "noise reduction" feature in photomatrix? I read the user guide and don't understand what it does. 
Also heres my first try. Ignore the background, etc. I shot this with out any added lighting, just set the lightbox near the window.
John


----------



## Knucklefish

*Heres the pic*

Messed-up the upload. Here you go.


----------



## SDB777

This with the new camera John?

The exposure values are perfect in showing the grain of the wood, and I'm not see those super blown-out shiny spot and no shadows.  We just need to bump you towards the white background a little(it is white, right?)




Scott (thumbs up) B


----------



## Knucklefish

*not exactly...*

Actually, the background is white (material) but i used cheap walmart bulbs which made it look yellow. Bsea (Bob) advised that I need a bulb that has a "color of light" of 5000+. The bulbs i bought are "everyday light" and the packaging isnt very descriptive. I need to find the better bulbs, any suggestions where i can get them?
I have also posted some other pics under "show off your pens" forum if you would take a look i would appreciate it.





SDB777 said:


> This with the new camera John?
> 
> The exposure values are perfect in showing the grain of the wood, and I'm not see those super blown-out shiny spot and no shadows. We just need to bump you towards the white background a little(it is white, right?)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scott (thumbs up) B


----------



## kevrob

John, I purchased my 5000k bulbs at the local Ace Hardware store. Good luck with your quest...


----------



## SDB777

Ace, HomeDepot(seem to have a LOT of them), Lowes.....

Don't want them 'curly-fry' lightbulbs, "Daylight" bulbs work too.



You using Picsas3?  After your photo is saved(photomatic), try just hitting "I'm Feeling Lucky"





Scott (we'll get you there) B


----------



## Knucklefish

*yes, yes and yes*

Yes, this is from the new camera using Photomatix and then Picasa3.
I'll try the feeling lucky thing.
Do you do the "noise reduction" thing at the very end of Photomatix?

John



SDB777 said:


> Ace, HomeDepot(seem to have a LOT of them), Lowes.....
> 
> Don't want them 'curly-fry' lightbulbs, "Daylight" bulbs work too.
> 
> 
> 
> You using Picsas3? After your photo is saved(photomatic), try just hitting "I'm Feeling Lucky"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scott (we'll get you there) B


----------



## SDB777

Yup, they just did add that....

Probably won't have a big noticeable difference, but noise = yuck.



Scott (noise is bad) B


----------



## rizaydog

I have a few questions about this.

What does merging the 3 photos do exactly?  I assume it improves the quality but by what criteria?  

After I turn something this weekend, I am going to try this method of photoing.  I have photoshop cs5 that has an option called photomerge which will combine multiple photos. It also has a merge to HDR pro option that I will try too.

I have a kodak z740.  It's not a great camera.  We have had it for many years.  It works great for gen picture taking.  After reading this post, I looked at it and it has the ability to switch to PASM.  
I assume I would set in on the "M" for manual.  

There is a changable option "f", which I guess is the f-stop. It ranges from 2.8-8.  

When I change that setting, there is a number that I can't change in red that ranges from -6.5 to -12.  As I move the camera around, this red number changes.  I don't know if that is something to do with the light or distance. 

The only other thing I can change is something that ranges from 1/1000 - 8". Not sure what this is.

There seems to be something on my screen called ISO 80.  This number doesn't seem to change when I change the settings.

Any thoughts on this from the pros?


----------



## azamiryou

rizaydog said:


> What does merging the 3 photos do exactly?  I assume it improves the quality but by what criteria?



I believe what HDR does is not simply combining the three (or more) photos. Instead, it looks for detail in the same area in the different photos. The output for that area comes mainly from the photo that has the most detail in that area. There's probably some algorithm to "blend" the different photos, but not evenly. 



> I have a kodak z740.  It's not a great camera.  We have had it for many years.  It works great for gen picture taking.  After reading this post, I looked at it and it has the ability to switch to PASM.


I don't know this camera, but PASM is almost certainly 4 modes of operation: 



Programmed - fully automatic, the camera decides the shutter and aperture
Aperture override - you set the aperture, the camera sets the shutter speed
Shutter override - you set the shutter speed, the camera sets the aperture
Manual - you set both the aperture and the shutter speed



> I assume I would set in on the "M" for manual.


For single shots, 'A' mode can work for you. For HDR, you'll need to use 'M' mode.



> There is a changable option "f", which I guess is the f-stop. It ranges from 2.8-8.


That's aperture. A higher number lets less light into the camera, but also gives you more depth of field. If that's gibberish to you, all you really need to know is: for pens you want it as high as it can go - 8 for you.



> When I change that setting, there is a number that I can't change in red that ranges from -6.5 to -12.  As I move the camera around, this red number changes.  I don't know if that is something to do with the light or distance.


That's probably the exposure (EV). This tells you how the exposure will be for the current aperture, shutter speed, and lighting. Under ideal conditions, the correct exposure is 0. -6.5 means your photo will be way too dark.  As a starting point for HDR, you should take one photo at 0, another at about -1, and another at about +1.

As you set the aperture higher, EV will get lower, so you need to make the shutter speed slower (longer time) to let more light in and raise the EV back up.



> The only other thing I can change is something that ranges from 1/1000 - 8". Not sure what this is.


That's shutter speed in seconds. 1/1000 means .001 seconds, 8" means 8 seconds.



> There seems to be something on my screen called ISO 80.  This number doesn't seem to change when I change the settings.


This is the "film speed" equivalent. It also factors into the exposure calculation - higher numbers are faster. Usually this is set somewhere in the camera settings. Leave it alone, though, 80 is a good setting for pen photos.



> Any thoughts on this from the pros?


Your camera seems to have all the features you need! Here's how to get started:

Set up your pen just how you want it, and set the camera up on a tripod - basically get everything ready to take the shot, but don't take it yet.

For one good shot: set the camera to mode 'A', and set the aperture as high as it will go. Take the picture.

For HDR: set the camera to mode 'M', and set the aperture as high as it will go. Set the shutter speed so that the EV is 0. Take the picture. Adjust the shutter speed so that EV is -1. Take that picture. Finally adjust the shutter speed so that EV is +1, and take the third picture.

Some additional tips:
When taking pictures, use the camera's timer to prevent the image from blurring due to camera movement when you press the button. Some cameras have a short timer (3 seconds) for just this purpose, so you don't have to wait 10 seconds for every shot. If your camera has a remote control, that works, too.

Also, check your camera settings for something called "bracketing". If it has this feature, you can use it to have the camera automatically take the three photos with different shutter speeds, so you don't have to keep adjusting the shutter between shots.

Hope this helps!


----------



## rizaydog

Thanks for your help.  I gave it a try this weekend.  Here is what I got:














Here is what it looks like after putting it into photoshops HDR:





What do you think?


----------



## randyrls

rizaydog said:


> What do you think?



Excellent quality! but may be slightly under exposed.  There may be a smudge on the tip of the pen.  At this level of quality, you will see every imperfection.


----------



## azamiryou

rizaydog said:


> What do you think?



I think that photo sure shows the power of HDR!

I would prefer it with slightly less brightness on the "background", especially towards the bottom of the photo. It feels overexposed and "blown out" to me.

Not everyone agrees with me (see post above), so you get to make your own choice. How does the photo compare to the actual pen?

Your HDR software may let you adjust this with the photos you've got. Otherwise, you could try slightly shorter exposures, like EV -1.3/-0.3/+0.7 for a darker image, or longer (-0.7/+0.3/+1.3) for a brighter image.

The important thing, though, is what you think and how the photo compares to the pen.


----------



## SDB777

rizaydog said:


> Thanks for your help. I gave it a try this weekend. Here is what I got:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is what it looks like after putting it into photoshops HDR:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What do you think?


 

You accomplished what I had intended to teach everyone here about.

Thanks for trying this method.


Scott


----------



## rizaydog

Well I had some time to play last night.  Using the same pen, I took more pics and merged them.  I got the smudge off and took the three pics again.  I changed my lighting a little.  Then I adjusted the exposure and curve in photoshop. Let me know what you think.


----------



## rizaydog

I also tried this meathod on some nested bowl sets.

Small set 6", 10", 12":





Medium set 8", 12", 14":





Large set 7", 10", 13", 15":


----------



## SDB777

Yes, the method works for just about every type of 'object' you can think of....I started using this while taking photo's of a place in NewHampshire...the sun was at the wrong angle and I had no time to wait for it to come up the next day.  Blasted off about 20 shots using different EV values and loaded up the truck.

Basically, we're taking the blow-out spots and tossing those, and then we're taking the too dark spots and tossing those and blending everything together(well, technically the program does this, all "we're" doing is waiting for the blinking finger).




Scott (nice bowls BTW) B


----------



## Twissy

Below are my results of trying this method, although I only used -1 0 +1.
Camera is Canon EOS 300D.
AEB set to -1 0 1
WB-BKT 0
Manual WB (took picture of blank tent)
F10
Software Adobe PE 2.0 (photo merge).
Cheap studio tent with 2 50 Watt halogens (bluish tint of front of GU10 bulbs).

My main gripe is that the pictures don't show the gloss finish of the pen....it looks more like a friction polish finish! Before reading this excellent thread I would have probable chosen the +1 image, but can now see that there is not as much contrast as the merged output.

There's very little difference between the output and the zero.

Is it worth changing the bulbs to 6.4K Daylight bulbs?

Result                             -1                                 +1                    0


----------



## Sawdust Maker

Scott

Absolutely brilliant
thanks for putting this up

now to make a pen and take a photo (or 3):biggrin:


----------



## azamiryou

Twissy said:


> Below are my results of trying this method, although I only used -1 0 +1.



The result looks dark and underexposed to me, probably because the camera is compensating for the white background.

Since you like the +1 (and I agree it looks pretty good), use that for the middle. Leaving everything else the same, try taking a set at 0, +1, and +2 for your HDR image.


----------



## Twissy

azamiryou said:


> Twissy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Below are my results of trying this method, although I only used -1 0 +1.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The result looks dark and underexposed to me, probably because the camera is compensating for the white background.
> 
> Since you like the +1 (and I agree it looks pretty good), use that for the middle. Leaving everything else the same, try taking a set at 0, +1, and +2 for your HDR image.
Click to expand...


Read this and thought brilliant! Unfortunately my camera will only allow brcketing equal sides of zero.
I did notice that I even though I'd saved the manual WB I hadn't activated it. That done I set bracketing to +&-1.3. In the photo merge I only merged the zero and +1.3.

Zero bracketing


 

+1.3


 

Merge Output



 

Looks quite good, but I think could still do with a bit more light.

Clicked on the "auto correct" in Microslop picture manager and got this:



 

Certainly increases the contrast, but is it a bit too much?
Thanks for the help by the way!

I'll eventually get the hang of adding pictures to forums too!!! Wouldn't let me link to a picasa picture.


----------



## azamiryou

Twissy said:


> Read this and thought brilliant! Unfortunately my camera will only allow brcketing equal sides of zero.



If your camera can do it (it probably can), you can bracket around something other than 0 using the manual mode. I don't know your camera, so the following may not apply - but try it and see. 

Set the camera to manual mode.
Turn the bracket function on (set for +/- 1.0 EV)
Set the aperture to the highest number the camera will allow.
EV should be displayed somewhere on the screen; as you make the shutter speed longer, the EV will go up. Set the shutter speed so that the EV is +1. 
Take the picture (the camera automatically takes all three).

Good luck!


----------



## Twissy

azamiryou said:


> Twissy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Read this and thought brilliant! Unfortunately my camera will only allow brcketing equal sides of zero.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If your camera can do it (it probably can), you can bracket around something other than 0 using the manual mode. I don't know your camera, so the following may not apply - but try it and see.
> 
> Set the camera to manual mode.
> Turn the bracket function on (set for +/- 1.0 EV)
> Set the aperture to the highest number the camera will allow.
> EV should be displayed somewhere on the screen; as you make the shutter speed longer, the EV will go up. Set the shutter speed so that the EV is +1.
> Take the picture (the camera automatically takes all three).
> 
> Good luck!
Click to expand...


You sir are a genius!!

I don't think I would have got there just from the manual. Your explanation of moving the centre point by changing the shutter speed was spot on....I was previously on auto shutter speed/manual aperture. I did the shots on F11. Is that still okay, or should I have increased it?

This picture is from the 3 bracketed shots merged:



This is from 0 & +1. A tad over?



What do you think?

So grateful for all your help, and any further suggestions will be gratefully received!


----------



## azamiryou

Twissy said:


> I did the shots on F11. Is that still okay, or should I have increased it?



A higher number aperture means a smaller hole for the light to come through; the smaller hole makes for a deeper field of focus in exchange for a longer exposure (it takes more time to get the same amount of light through the smaller hole).

Depth of field is the "range" of focused parts of the photo. For example, if you point the pen a bit toward the camera and focus on the center band, the center will be in focus but both the near and far ends will be out of focus. I'm sure you've seen pen photos like this.

There are formulas and on-line calculators to predict the depth of field, but you don't need all that - just know that the higher the number, the easier it is to get your whole pen in focus.

The trade-off is that you need a longer shutter speed, but using a tripod and photographing a still subject, that's not important. That's why I say to make it as high as it'll go. But honestly, any value that gets the whole pen in focus is fine. You may even choose to go lower to intentionally put things out of focus!



> This picture is from the 3 bracketed shots merged:
> 
> View attachment 68867
> 
> This is from 0 & +1. A tad over?
> 
> View attachment 68868
> 
> What do you think?



The first one is good on the lower part of the pen, but I think it's a little too dark on the top of the pen. I also prefer the brighter background of the second one, but I feel like the lower part of the pen there is too bright.

Does your HDR software let you make adjustments before generating the photo? Mine lets me play with contrast, move the white/black/gray points around, and also increase or decrease the detail in the highlights, midtones, and shadows.

So with my software, I'd use the three photos (as in your first one), but brighten the shadows a bit and bring out the detail in the cap.


----------



## Twissy

I tried playing with the contrast and brightness but when I improved the top half it was to the detriment of the bottom half.

What I have done is lower my camera so it is more level with the pen, and change the F stop to 25. The aperture has definitely improved the sharpness....but boy is the shutter open for a long time! I will be getting myself a better tripod I can see!

I think there is an improvement, but would welcome the comments from a trained eye!

All pictures are merged from the three bracketed around +1.


----------



## azamiryou

Twissy said:


> I tried playing with the contrast and brightness but when I improved the top half it was to the detriment of the bottom half.



Hmmm, this is exactly the sort of problem HDR should help with. With my software, I can make adjustments to the dark areas (the cap) without changing the bright areas (the bottom half).



> I think there is an improvement, but would welcome the comments from a trained eye!
> 
> All pictures are merged from the three bracketed around +1.


They keep getting better! That said, I think the contrast is too low on these. I used my software's "levels" function to adjust one (this gives better control than the regular contrast/brightness controls). What do you think?


----------



## Twissy

Your picture definitely looks better! I was only using the basic brightness/contrast adjustment. I've now had a play with the "levels" and had a go at redoing the first two from above:





I've also done pictures of another pen I made today, but now sure if I haven't gone too far now! It's amazing how much variation there is depending on what the picture is of. 



 

 



I think I'm going to need to iron my backing cloth!

Thanks again for all your help.


----------



## azamiryou

I want to clarify that "levels" is a separate thing from the HDR adjustments I was talking about.

With my software, the HDR function opens a window where you can pick multiple images to combine and create an "HDR Image" - this is a different file format and contains all the data from all the photos. After I do that, in the same window I can make adjustments; these adjustments use data from all the photos, so there's less tendency for a fix in one area to make another area worse. After I have the photo looking how I want it, I can click a button to generate a regular (non-HDR) image based on those settings.

Once I do that, I have an image I can manipulate the same as any other with contrast and brightness, levels, color balance, cropping, and so on, and save as a JPEG.

What I did with your photo was this post-processing, nothing to do with HDR. If, with your software, you can make adjustments as you make the HDR image, then I think you can get better results than I did.


----------



## Twissy

Unfortunately I'm still on version 2 of Adobe Photo Shop Elements, which I think is from around 2002!!!! The only changes I can make after merging is rotating the picture!

I'll have to keep my eye open for some new software, but at the moment any funds are going into pen making!

You have steered me in the right direction, and undoubtedly improved my photo's.


----------



## SDB777

Twissy, 

If I may make one very small suggestion for your photo-tent....
Get a large enough piece on white construction type paper that you can curve up the back wall.  It'll give the impression to the viewer of your photo's that the 'plane' goes on forever....that, and there won't be a seam in the background to distract the view.




Everyone that is trying this simple experiment is doing great!  Keep on looking, and keep on shootin' them photo's!!!



Scott


----------



## Twissy

Thanks for your input Scott. I've been meaning to iron the white cloth since I got it!!! Spent so much time making pens of late that I've not had much time to spend on other things.
Downloaded Photomatix and had a bit of a play seems quite user friendly, but most of the things you can do with it are way over my head! Anyway, this is the result.
Thank you all for your help, and as usual any feedback more than welcome.


----------



## SDB777

The PhotoMatix program keeps evolving, there's no doubt about that.....and 85% of what it can do-well, I just don't use it(at least for this type of photography).  Just looking to get rid of the shadows and blowouts from typical photography, without needing to spend a day in PhotoShop Version-of-too-much-money....



I have played with the 'grunge look' from time-to-time for shooting old barn lofts and stuff like that, and it is fun to do.



Twissy, really liking that fountain pen you have here.  Awesome turningz!!!






Scott


----------



## Twissy

SDB777 said:


> Twissy, really liking that fountain pen you have here.  Awesome turningz!!!
> Scott



Do you mean the cheats carbon fibre scott? I feel a cheat when I sell these but they are good sellers!


----------



## vthowe

*which settings on this camera do i use?*

Hey there...here are the settings in my camera to do AEB...not sure exactly how these line up with what we're trying to do here?  I did get it to take 3 shots but they look all the same.

Thoughts???

Bracketing in continuous modeEdit
Bracketing is the practice of making several exposures of a scene, with each exposure differing from the next by predetermined steps in exposure or focus settings. Bracketing is used to easily capture a range of exposures so that the best exposure can be selected at a later time. Bracketing is also used to create a series of exposures which will be combined using methods such as HDR processing.
The bracketing features are enabled when the camera drive mode is set to continuous, and custom timer with some models


Usage Tip: If you wish to fire off individual frames and still have bracketing for each one,
after the first shot, lightly let-up on the shutter button to a half- press position.The next 
full-press will give you another bracketed shot. This process may be repeated for as 
many bracketing steps as you need. Giving you finer control over the number of bracketed 
exposures you may require.

Set camera Custom Timer in Canon Menu

TV bracketing value...[Off, 1/3 – 4 Ev]
Set this value to bracket via exposure time. A value of 1 will double or halve the exposure time for the following exposures.

AV bracketing value...[Off, 1/3 – 4 Ev]
Set this value to bracket via aperture. A value of 1 will open or close the aperture by 1 stop for the following exposures.
Subj. Dist. Bracket Value...[0 – 100]
Set this value to enable focus bracketing. This feature is only enabled during manual focus mode. This feature allows you to specify the manual focus distance in millimeters. This value is multiplied by the Value factor below to arrive at the final value.
Value factor (mm)...[Off, 1, 10, 100, 1000]
Used as a multiplier for Distance bracketing value.
ISO bracketing value...[0 – 100]
Set this value to bracket via ISO. This value is multiplied by the Value factor below to arrive at the final ISO value that will be used for bracketing. A value of 2, with a Value factor of 10, will increase or decrease the ISO by 20 for following exposures.
Value factor...[Off, 1, 10, 100]
Used as a multiplier for the ISO bracketing value.
Bracketing type...[+/-, –, +]
BRACKET in the OSD. With all bracketing types the first exposure uses the current exposure settings of the camera. On following exposures the exposure settings are adjusted as described below.
+/-
This bracketing type will alternatively apply the bracketing value by first increasing then decreasing the exposure value. The sequence goes like this…
0 Ev, +1Ev, -1Ev, +2Ev, -2Ev, +3Ev, -3Ev, etc. Bracketing will continue until you release the shutter. For example, TV bracketing is set to “1 Ev”, and when you half-press the :shutter you notice an exposure time of 1 second. When you fully depress the shutter you will get exposures at these times: 1 sec, 1/2 sec, 2 sec, 1/4 sec, 4 sec, 1/8 sec, 8 sec, 1/16 sec, 16 sec, etc.
–
This bracketing type works as above but will only increase the exposure value. Using the above example, the exposure times would be 1 sec, 2 sec, 4 sec, 8 sec, etc.Once the camera’s limit is reached, subsequent exposures will occur at the maximum setting.
+
This bracketing type works as above but will only decrease the exposure value. Using the above example, the exposure times would be 1 sec, 1/2 sec, 1/4 sec, 1/8 sec. Once the camera’s limit is reached, subsequent exposures will occur at the minimum setting.
Clear Bracket Values on Start Enable [●] / Disable [ ]
Enable this option to turn off bracketing when the camera is turned off.
Add raw-suffix Enable [●] / Disable [ ]
In bracketing mode you now have the option to add a suffix to the raw filename, so that later you can easily identify the RAWs that were created during bracketing, it is disabled at default.


----------



## turner.curtis

have not read through all the pages although figured with some of the questions raised on application costs that I would mention another application that you can use for HDR sewing is Hugin. The upside  to Hugin is that it is opensource, ie free. I use it to sew my manual  panoramas together although it can be used for stunning HDR as well though of course YMMV. Hugin - Panorama photo stitcher


----------



## azamiryou

vthowe said:


> I did get it to take 3 shots but they look all the same.
> 
> Thoughts???



If they look the same, the exposure didn't change. So the question is, why not?



> The bracketing features are enabled when the camera drive mode is set to continuous
> Subj. Dist. Bracket Value...[0 – 100]
> ISO bracketing value...[0 – 100]
> Bracketing types... Once the camera’s limit is reached, subsequent exposures will occur at the maximum (minimum) setting.



I've called out the parts of the instructions that seem to indicate ways this might occur.


Did you hold down the shutter to take the 3 photos, or click the shutter 3 times? It sounds like for your camera, you need to hold the shutter down, or possibly there's some way to set it up with the timer. You want to get all the shots with a single press of the shutter.
If you're bracketing on subject distance, it won't change the exposure, just the focus.
If you're bracketing on ISO, it won't change the exposure, just the ISO setting. (Maybe - it's not clear whether it changes the shutter time to compensate for the change in the ISO.)
If the initial exposure is at the camera limit, it might not be able to do the bracketing.
This is just wild guessing from the text you provided, as I don't have the camera in front of me to try it out. But maybe this will help.

By the way, I don't understand what it's saying about using the timer, but it's probably worth it for you to figure it out - you DON'T want to have to hold the shutter down while it takes the photos.


----------



## vthowe

Thanks!  No, it's set on a timer...currently a photo each second x 4...will go up to 6 I think.  I believe I'm coming closer to getting it figured out...need to do more testing AND a tri-pod.

It's funny when there are a lot of options it makes you think you need to use them all!  I think it's only the TV and bracketing type +/- that I need to mess with?


----------



## azamiryou

vthowe said:


> I think it's only the TV and bracketing type +/- that I need to mess with?



Yes! (I forgot to say that.) Turn TV bracketing ON to 1 or 1.3 EV, and all the others OFF. And you want the type to be +/-.

1/3 EV is not much, if that's the setting you had it on it's possible the photos were actually different but the differences were too subtle for you to see.

Glad you can use the timer. You will definitely want a tripod and timer for doing HDR, so the photos align. In the meantime, though, you can experiment with the bracketing feature and get used to using it.

I'm jealous that your camera does focus bracketing: with the right software, you can use that to create an arbitrarily deep focus. In other words, you could make a photo that shows your pen end-on, with the whole pen in focus! But that's another thread, I think...


----------



## SDB777

Hope that everyone has seen some usefulness from this set-up....






Scott (bump for the new folks) B


----------



## SDB777

Just a bump. 




Scott B


----------



## SDB777

Haven't brought this one around for awhile.....



Scott (new eyes might like it) B


----------



## rizaydog

Ok guys I need some help.  I just got a nikon d5000 and I can't figure out this auto bracketing.  I set the camera to manual.  I set the F to 8. And the other setting ranges from 30 to 1/4000. My old camera was easy. I would take a pic at 0, +1, -1. I don't know what to set the second setting at to get a good picture.
I found out how to turn auto bracketing on. However it doesn't take all 3 pictures. It looks like it changes the exposure setting by 1 after I take one exposure. However, I though auto braketing would take all 3 pic with one press of the button.  Is this wrong?


----------



## azamiryou

The 30 to 1/4000 setting is the shutter speed, in seconds. To find the correct setting, temporarily put your camera in 'A' (aperture override) mode, set the aperture, then depress the shutter button half way. The camera should display the shutter speed it chose. For best results, do this while aiming at a gray card - but if you don't have one, just aiming at your pen should get you in the ballpark*. Make a note of the shutter speed, switch back to manual, and use that shutter speed with the same aperture.

For auto bracketing, some cameras may require you to hold the shutter down while it takes the three photos (IMHO opinion, a stupid design decision). Are you using the timer or remote? My camera requires you to hold it down if you're directly clicking the shutter button, but fires all three automatically when I use the remote. I'm not sure, but I think the timer function also fires all three automatically.

_* When you do this, the camera examines the light levels across the picture and tries to find a good balance, so if too much of the scene is white or black, it can get thrown off. If you have a black background, it will choose an exposure time that is too long (to pull all that black up to gray); if you have a white background, it will choose an exposure that is too short (to try to push all that white down to gray). So if you don't have a gray card and you just use the scene you're going to photograph, you may have to adjust. For example, if you're taking a picture of a pen on a black background and it chooses a .5 second exposure time, you may want to try it at like .3 or 1/4 second._


----------



## rizaydog

Thank you for your reply. I'll give that a try...
I do use a remote.  Maybe I'll try the timer and see if it will do all three exposures that way.


----------



## azamiryou

Also look for an option on the screen where you set up auto bracket, maybe there's a stetting for it.


----------



## butchf18a

Sounds like you've recieved good advice. My canon requires 3 separate button pushes


----------



## SDB777

butchf18a said:


> Sounds like you've recieved good advice. My canon requires 3 separate button pushes


 

Have a Sony, Canon, and cheap Kodiak that requires pushing the button three times also.
The Sony is supposed to do AutoBracketing, but it does it in .33/0/-.33 only.  And that isn't enough information to bother with.



Scott (let's get to a 100,000 views here) B


----------



## azamiryou

SDB777 said:


> Have a Sony, Canon, and cheap Kodiak that requires pushing the button three times also.
> The Sony is supposed to do AutoBracketing, but it does it in .33/0/-.33 only.  And that isn't enough information to bother with.



I'm not looking forward to the day I have to replace my camera, but I know it's coming. Guess now I also know to look out for bracketing "features" that suck.

While it would be a pain in the backside, you can do manual bracketing if you have a good heavy tripod and software that will ensure the images are properly aligned. It's such a pain, though, I'd reserve it for only pens that really need it.


----------



## RosezPenZ

to Scott (lets keep bumping it) B
so I've been a member here several years and never seen/taken time to read this.  I will admit I dont get on a lot or when I do I dont have a lot of time to just read.  After reading thru all 12 pages tonight I think I see what your getting at and will have to go home and look at my camera to see what I can do because I want to be able to show off the grain.


----------



## RosezPenZ

Scott,
I dont have any place to buy tripods locally except walmart and best buy.  How do I know I am getting a rock solid tripod when I buy one online without spending a hundred plus dollars?


----------



## azamiryou

Truth be told, even a flimsy tripod will be a huge improvement over none and work fine for many purposes. I've got a cheap one I've been using for years. I could spend a hundred-plus dollars to get a much better one, but I haven't had the need. Light weight is also handy for portability.

Just use a remote or timer to make sure you don't get camera shake from pressing the shutter button.

One situation where you would need a solid, heavy tripod is if you have to touch the camera between shots when bracketing for HDR. If you touch the camera, it will move, and this will affect the alignment of the photos during the HDR process. How much this matters depends on how well your HDR software handles misalignments. A solid tripod helps minimize camera movement.

If you don't have to touch the camera between shots (for example, if your camera's auto-bracketing gives you the spread you want with just one shutter click, or you are able to control the exposure settings and shutter remotely), then just about any tripod or other camera mount will work.


----------



## underdog

I've been reading this with interest, and then realized I probably can't do this with my current camera...

Why? Not because I can't adjust the EV, WB, ISO, or other things.. No.. it's much simpler than that.

Olympus (SZ-20) seems to think that you need to reset the timer every stinkin' time you take a photo. What were they thinking?


----------



## RosezPenZ

I have photoshop 6 and its just not working.  what program do you all recommend I purchase.


----------



## RosezPenZ

I finally read the fine print in () and figured out it was the element part I needed.


----------



## azamiryou

underdog said:


> I've been reading this with interest, and then realized I probably can't do this with my current camera...
> 
> Why? Not because I can't adjust the EV, WB, ISO, or other things.. No.. it's much simpler than that.
> 
> Olympus (SZ-20) seems to think that you need to reset the timer every stinkin' time you take a photo. What were they thinking?



Yikes, another "feature" to look out for when shopping for a new camera.

One possible work-around... most digital cameras have a delay between when you click the shutter and when it actually snaps the photo. In most situations this is a total nuisance, but if you click and let go quick, it can be enough time for the camera to stop moving by the time it takes the picture.


----------



## SDB777

RosezPenZ said:


> I have photoshop 6 and its just not working. what program do you all recommend I purchase.


 


I thought the PhotoShop program had a HDR feature in it....or maybe it's an add-on?  Still recommend PhotoMatix Light(even after all this time).






Scott (this just keeps coming to the top) B


----------



## NotURMailman

I'm trying to figure this out. You could use the Auto Exposure Bracketing feature on a Cannon EOS Rebel T3 with the timer set to take pictures at 0, -2/3, and then +2/3, correct? The manual says it will take the 0 pic, then the -2/3 pic, and then the +2/3 pic in that order automatically aftre the timer goes off. What I'm really not sure about is the -2/3 and +2/3 settings. Am I totally lost?


----------



## azamiryou

EV is the exposure - how much total light falls on the sensor. Too much light makes for an overexposed photo; too much is an underexposed photo. EV changes when the aperture or shutter speed change. Longer shutter or bigger aperture (smaller f number) makes a higher EV, shorter shutter or smaller aperture makes a lower EV. When talking about differences in EV, we often call it a "stop": +1 EV is "up 1 stop" or "1 stop brighter".

The numbers in your manual show you how much the camera changes the EV between shots in auto-bracketing. 0 means a shot with the "correct" EV (either set by you in manual mode, or automatically in P, A, or T mode). -2/3 means a shot with a 2/3 EV lower exposure (2/3 stop darker).

1/3 stop difference is very subtle. At 2/3 you should have no trouble seeing there's a difference, but it's not a big difference. 1 stop is an obvious difference.

You are not lost. Auto Exposure Bracketing is exactly what you want. +/- 2/3 will work for HDR, but if your camera lets you change it, I'd recommend +/- 1 or 1.3, to maximize the data available to the software.


----------



## NotURMailman

The setting are adjustable up to +/-3 in 1/3 increments, with the timer it takes one at zero, then one -, then one +. I don't have the camera yet, I was reading throught he manual online to see if it was going to be what I wanted. Sounds like it will work for this, I already know it will work for my other purposes. So, sounds like it's a go!

Thanks for the help!

Now I just need to decide on a decent tripod...


----------



## azamiryou

NotURMailman said:


> Now I just need to decide on a decent tripod...



Of course a better tripod is better... but if your camera has a timer or remote and you'll be shooting indoors, the tripod is one area it's okay to go cheaper on if your budget is tight. A bigger/heavier/better tripod is more stable, and does a better job of keeping the camera still when it gets lightly bumped, or blown by the wind, or when you press buttons or otherwise manipulate the camera. Shooting pens indoors with a timer, you don't really have to worry about that stuff.


----------



## David Wendel

What a GREAT idea!!  Never thought of using HDR on pens.  I will be using this from now on!!  Thanks!!


----------



## airborne_r6

azamiryou said:


> NotURMailman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now I just need to decide on a decent tripod...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course a better tripod is better... but if your camera has a timer or remote and you'll be shooting indoors, the tripod is one area it's okay to go cheaper on if your budget is tight. A bigger/heavier/better tripod is more stable, and does a better job of keeping the camera still when it gets lightly bumped, or blown by the wind, or when you press buttons or otherwise manipulate the camera. Shooting pens indoors with a timer, you don't really have to worry about that stuff.
Click to expand...


I don't know about where you live but around here the local thrift stores can have pretty good tripods quite cheap. Like several hundred dollar ones for several bucks.  You might just have to check back until you find one.  I think it is something that people donate to get rid of but most of the people shopping at thrift stores aren't really looking for.


----------



## NotURMailman

Thank for that great idea!

I had checked some local pawn shops, but they wanted nearly new prices and if I'm gona do that I'd rather just buy new. I'll check out the thrift stores.


----------



## SDB777

Never been able to get a "good" tripod from a thrift store. Maybe it is where I am located at?  Or maybe it is because most of the Goodwills around here are shipping the goodies to ya'll folks with the real money!


A great tripod can make up for a crappy camera, but not the other way around. 






Scott (digital film is cheap) B


----------



## butchf18a

strange, I've never been able to get a good steak at McDonalds


----------



## airborne_r6

SDB777 said:


> Never been able to get a "good" tripod from a thrift store. Maybe it is where I am located at?  Or maybe it is because most of the Goodwills around here are shipping the goodies to ya'll folks with the real money!
> 
> 
> A great tripod can make up for a crappy camera, but not the other way around.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scott (digital film is cheap) B



Oddly enough, I haven't either, but several friends and family members have been able to pick up Manfrotto's.  Every time I go they don't even have any crappy tripods.


----------



## SDB777

I'm thinking the 'scores' that I hear about from these 'thrift shops' are pretty much as close to urban legend as it gets(JMHO).


I use a Benbo Trekker in the house, and sometimes while on vacation if I'm doing some 'sight-seeing' and want some memories for later.  Think I picked it up from Amazon(of all places) because I just couldn't stomach the prices on those Manfro's!  Also have a mono-pod from the same maker(the head's interchange), for doing some bird photo's while walking throught the woods looking for FOG-wood!




Scott (any more questions....feel free) B


----------



## SDB777

How about a bump for the newer people that haven't seen this one?





Scott (I know there's a few of ya) B


----------



## mmayo

Thanks Scott

Quite an eye opener for me.  Silly me thinking you could produce great photos with only one exposure.  Old dog + new tricks =  and pretty pen photographs.

The problem:  pen drilling with lathe stuff - or - HDR software  ?

Hmmmmmm


----------



## azamiryou

mmayo said:


> Thanks Scott
> 
> The problem:  pen drilling with lathe stuff - or - HDR software  ?
> 
> Hmmmmmm



Definitely the drilling stuff.

Building pens better is way more important than taking better photos.

_(IF you are selling pens, and IF photo quality is holding you back more than pen quality is, then better photos can be more important. But if your photo quality is holding you back, HDR isn't going to help. HDR is a tool to eke out a little more detail and natural look when your photos are already pretty good. If you aren't to that stage, you'll get a lot more benefit from learning about focus and backgrounds and shutter and aperture and light tents. There's an excellent article in the library.)_


----------



## SDB777

mmayo said:


> Thanks Scott
> 
> Quite an eye opener for me. Silly me thinking you could produce great photos with only one exposure. Old dog + new tricks =  and pretty pen photographs.
> 
> The problem: pen drilling with lathe stuff - or - HDR software ?
> 
> Hmmmmmm


 


Something a LOT of folkks don't think about, or know about.....most of the photo's in magazine(you know, those big colorful scenic shots of whatever) are HDR generated.

You can shoot a photo in RAW and use that one single inage to make three(or twelve) images to use in the layering process.....so technically, you can take one photo and make an HDR image.






Scott (I don't like processing RAW photo's) B


----------



## jbswearingen

I finally purchased the program and did this tonight with a picture I took earlier today.  My "light room" is a cardboard box with windows cut into it, a white sheet taped over each window, and three 500W halogen work lights, one on each window.  I shoot in RAW with a T4i, set the white balance to 2800K, sharpen it a bit, and then process to JPEG.  I then used Photomatix to create the image, and then uploaded to Ribbet! Online Photo Editor to crop, add a border, and add text.


----------



## jbswearingen

Playing with it some more, I figured out how to use the built-in bracketing (it's a new camera).  Here's a pen I turned the other day.  I *really* like this software.


----------



## SDB777

Pretty nice experimenting going on with this one here!




Scott (bumpin' for those newer folks) B


----------



## SDB777

How about another bump for the new folks....

And a photo?







This one was made from three exposures of EV -1.3, EV -0.33, and EV +1.6 Blended in PhotoMatix Light 2.0 using the preset setting in the Details Enhancer - Default.
This area of PhotoMatix Light can also compose a 'fake' HDR using one photo(I would recommend playing with a EV 0.0 photo and go from there.

Remember digital photographs are really cheap....take a lot of photo's and use the best of the best!






Scott (any questions, feel free) B


----------



## SDB777

Almost a whole month has gone by....where does the time go??




Scott (bet there is a new bunch) B


----------



## edstreet

Looks like a bit heavy on the reflection burn out with the last image.


----------



## SDB777

edstreet said:


> Looks like a bit heavy on the reflection burn out with the last image.


 


I must humbly agree....I think the upper zipper thing was undone during those exposures.





Scott (good eye) B


----------



## edstreet

Interesting thread, have not read it till now to be honest. Have you any experience with the zone system?  Am thinking there could be much gained from studying it if you have not.


----------



## SDB777

edstreet said:


> Interesting thread, have not read it till now to be honest. Have you any experience with the zone system? Am thinking there could be much gained from studying it if you have not.


 

This method is using one of the Zonal Elements...._dynamic range._


In fact, if memory serves correctly(it probably doesn't)....wasn't the whole Zonal System researched back in the 1930's?  Primarily used for black-n-white by Adams....and later 'molded' for use with regular old film and then digital.  



Scott (things have a way of coming back around) B


----------



## edstreet

Yes that is correct.  It never really left to be honest.


----------



## SDB777

I don't have the ability to make this a PDF file, so if someone wants to...feel free!


Disclaimer(again): I don't own any of these programs, nor am I paid to tell you about them....I just happen to use them and they work for me. You can play with the free stuff, but it will leave a watermark over the photo until you 'pay for it' on the PhotoMatix, but Picasa stuff is free!

Links to the programs I use:
Picasa3: Picasa
PhotoMatix Light: Download HDR Photography software Photomatix

This is my method of presenting photo's of the item(s) I make. The simple title should read: HDR your pens!

Step one:
This is the part that may take you a few tries to get right. But basically, you need to take three photographs of your item without moving the camera(this is very critical-a solid mount will give you the best results)!
I like to use the f/45 setting on the camera(it gives the best depth of field inside my light tent-or in other words...'everything should be in focus'). With the camera mounted on the tripod and the f/stop set, I take three photo's, only changing the EV setting in between(do this carefully to keep the camera from moving).
Here is the result of the three photo's:

Photo #01:



The above photo is the result of:
f/45
EV-1.0
(2second shutter delay used)
exposure time 0.6s

Photo #02:



The above photo is the result of:
f/45
EV+0.3
(2second shutter delay used)
exposure time 1.6s

Photo #03:



The above photo is the result of:
f/45
EV+1.6
(2second shutter delay used)
exposure time 4s

(I know it would have been a good idea to copy/paste the complete EXIF data file(but it would have been huge and probably confusing for a lot of people) But you can see from the limited data I did use that the only thing that changes is the EV setting, and the exposure time.

Here's a screen shot I took from my screen showing all the photo's I took this morning using the pretty much the same setting for each. EV-1.0, EV+0.3, and EV+1.6 
(Note: You can take as many photo's with different EV settings as you want, it will give you 'smoother transitions'. But the downside is you have to be more careful to keep the camera still!)

Photo #04:




Don't worry, after you run the original photo's through the software you can delete the files to reduce the number of photo's you have in the computer!


The next step is to open the program called PhotoMatix Light 2.0, and then select the photo's that I showed above:




From this shot you should be able to see the 'NEXT' button under the larger photo to the right. You will need to 'click' on that to go to the next screen(you can also 'de-select' photos on the left side of the screen to adjust the outcome).


The next photo is the actual merge screen(I call it that, cause I'm not sure of the actual name for it):




This is where you can play around with different 'sliders' and preset options. I use the Exposure Fusion defualt setting, unless I what to 'blow-your-mind' with some 'grunge' stuff(it doesn't look too much like the pen anymore, but it's fun to play with). Anyway, this screen shot should show the 'Process & Save' button(lower left)....you'll need to click that. When prompted you can save it as a file with any name you choose.

Here is the original 'Saved Photo':






At this point I reopen Picasa3 and make the corrections.
Here's a screen shot showing two extra photo(one of which we all going through-I just happened to do two sets cause I didn't know which one I was going to use):




I use only minimal adjustments for 'Fill Light'(to try to re-produce the actual color of the background), then I hit the "I'm Feeling Lucky" option. After that I generally remove the fuzzies in 'Retouch', 'crop' it to show more detail, adjust the 'Sharpen' somewhat.....you get the idea, common stuff you probably already do. And the ending result is:






Of course you can add 'text' in the photo or anything else for that matter. I use to put a border on the photo using Adobe Lightroom to give the photo the 'off the page' look, but I haven't done that for quite sometime? This whole process(the three photo's and then the processing) takes about 4-1/2 minutes, but improves the light seen(or not seen) in the photo.


Scott (step by step) B


----------



## Sawdust46

Your photo is beautiful.  I'll have to wait until I'm ready to take some photos to try your method and I may have some questions then.  Thanks for sharing.


----------



## edstreet

SDB777 said:


> I don't have the ability to make this a PDF file, so if someone wants to...feel free!



This work?


----------



## Sawdust46

*First try...*

This is my first attempt using your method.  I'm happy with it but want to try it some more before I buy Photomatrix.
What do you think of the photo?
IMG_4822_3_4_tonemappedMOD1.jpg


----------



## SDB777

Sawdust46 said:


> This is my first attempt using your method. I'm happy with it but want to try it some more before I buy Photomatrix.
> What do you think of the photo?
> IMG_4822_3_4_tonemappedMOD1.jpg


 


I am not seeing any shadows around the subject(and that is what we are after).  Little out of focus on the finial and the nib(all you need to do there is move the subject further away from the lense-or the camera away from the subject...to fix that).

Try experimenting with different backgrounds....



PhotoMatix Light isn't the only program out there that processes HDR imaging......you might try searching for something else(something free), you never know.




Scott (homemade pizza in the oven) B


----------



## Sawdust46

15% DISCOUNT ON PHOTOMATRIX.  I just purchased Photomatrix and got a 15% discount using the coupon code at Photomatix Coupon Code 2013 - 'HOTSHOTPHOTO' - 15% OFF!.  I think it will work on any of their packages.  Thanks again to SDB777 for the post and thanks for the feedback on my photo.


----------



## SDB777

Discounts are always awesome!  I don't remember getting one back in the day....  Look forward to seeing some great photo's!



Scott (congrats) B


----------



## SDB777

Has it been a month already....where does time go?






Scott (fire them thar questions) B


----------



## azamiryou

I just got around to reading the tutorial you posted in June.

You didn't ask for feedback, so I hope you'll forgive me for taking it upon myself to comment...

I think your choice of pen for the example could be much better. The advantage of HDR is that you can show detail - especially low-contrast detail - in both light and dark areas of the photo. The bocote (I assume that's bocote?) pen is pretty much all high-contrast detail, and you can get an excellent photo with a single correct exposure and/or a little fiddling with contrast and brightness controls.

If you use a pen with both light and dark detail, you could clearly demonstrate the problem (show different exposures, and point out how the detail in this or that area gets lost) and the solution (the final photo clearly showing good detail in both light and dark areas).

And now for something completely different: if you'd like the tutorial to have correct grammar, please note that "photo's" is a contraction or possessive, and "photos" is plural.

Thank you for writing it up, HDR is an excellent tool for people to have in their  photography toolbox.


----------



## SDB777

Just giving her a bump for the new folks that might not have seen this!






Scott (another month about gone) B


----------



## SDB777

Bump for the new folks!!!



Scott (sharing is fun) B


----------



## Kaspar

This is an imperfect try, because it does not use the recommended EV values, but I always do three or four exposures at slightly different EV values.  Next pen pic I take, I'll try this, as well as shoot it in my usual way, for comparison.


----------



## Culprit

Thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread thus far.  I am learning a LOT and took my camera off full auto for the first time 2 days ago to play with the aperture and shutter speeds on my own.

Tonight I tried HDR for the first time using PhotoMatix.

I'm using a Canon SX130is. I downloaded a firmware hack to make this point and shoot do auto bracketing with one shutter press in conjunction with the 2 sec self timer and 3 shot continuous mode.  If you have a Canon point and shoot, Google "Canon CHDK Richart Smrt."  Watch Richard's video, then download the firmware hack and have fun.  And it's not my fault if you brick your camera.  All I can say is it worked for me.  This hack also enables RAW and time lapse on Canon point and shoots, but it's already late enough for one day, so I'm going to bed and will try that another day.

My camera only goes up to f 8.0 so that's where I set it.  Turned Image Stabilizing off.  Bracketed the exposure at -2/3 0  +2/3.  ISO at 800, as low as it will go.

This is leaps and bounds from where I was just 2 days ago.  To continue improving, I am going to try bracketing at different values as my next step.  I also need to get the white balance right so that the background appears white, as it truly is.

What would you guys recommend?


And by the way, this is my first Jr. Gent II and my first custom finial.  It's spalted black walnut with mostly sapwood and a little heart.

Thanks again, everyone!


----------



## SDB777

Congrats to both of y'all!!

Seems that the 'AUTO' mode, doesn't quite cover everything.  It has it's place, but not in photo'ing 'stock' items where time-n-space can be manipulated in any fashion so chosen by the user.


EV values I used in this topic are just 'suggestions', and are not to be considered as a set in stone type of thing.  By all means, playing with any and all setting and use what works for you.



As far as white balance, that can also be manipulated in processing.  If you know the background is 'white', then 'tweak' it until it becomes white.










Scott (let's see those results) B


----------



## Culprit

I continued practicing with HDR today, but I cheated a little - I'll explain in a new thread because it's somewhat of a departure from the intent of this thread.

f2.4, 1/40 sec, ISO 64.


----------



## SDB777

Culprit said:


> I continued practicing with HDR today, but I cheated a little - I'll explain in a new thread because it's somewhat of a departure from the intent of this thread.
> 
> f2.4, 1/40 sec, ISO 64.


 



I'll go look for the topic you start.  Photo seems really well done, with excellent focus throughout....even at f/2.8(I have difficulty there, maybe due to the amount of room I have available to get set-up).



Scott (I might have to clean up here and go faster) B


----------



## Culprit

After the education I got reading this thread and others last week, I was wondering if the iPhone 5 camera would be suitable since the f stop is 2.4, but surprisingly it worked very well.

I guess because the sensor is so small (pixel size is just 1.4 micron), the geometry works out to get decent depth of field with a fixed f 2.4 aperture.


----------



## SDB777

The cell phone cameras are definitely making some nice photo's-and most have the HDR feature built in.  Just need to make sure you go through the photo's stored into the phone memory every once in awhile...run out of room in there if you are like me!



Scott (Nokia got a 41Mp photo camera) B


----------



## SDB777

I tried a iPhone HDR photo just this afternoon.

It was just 'okay', didn't have the range of adjustments like the HDR programs go, and the basic photo was very bright.  I will admit, this photo was taken outside during the noon sun(even as low as it is on the 3rd day of winter).


I think I'll try doing some experimenting with the HDR iPhone and maybe some processing in Adobe Photoshop plugin stuff later(or when it rains next).




Scott (Merry Merry everyone) B


----------



## longbeard

The HDR photo app is all i've used for my pics. I just need some help with my fugifilm camera, i've taken hundreds of pics with it, just can't seem to find the right combo of settings for the right picture


----------



## SDB777

longbeard said:


> The HDR photo app is all i've used for my pics. I just need some help with my fugifilm camera, i've taken hundreds of pics with it, just can't seem to find the right combo of settings for the right picture


 

Not really familiar with any of the Fugifilm cameras, all cameras pretty much operate on the same basic principles....

What kind of lighting do you have?
If your lighting set-up is the same for 'stock photos' every time, then experimenting is a little easier.  We can start there....





Scott (you'll shoot your eye out) B


----------



## longbeard

Maybe latter this evening i can take a few pics. I know i dont have the right bulbs for starts. My tent is just pvc square with white cloth on top, bottom and the back. I also have grey cloth too. Seems as though i just cant find the right combination of settings on the camera, then i get frustrated and say the heck with it. But any help is appreciated, maybe we can do this via Pm.

Harry


----------



## TwoCatsPens

Been following this thread, thought that I'd throw a couple of mine up, let you know my mind-set when doing the pics, and get your feedback.

I'm lucky that photography is one of my hobbies, so I have a few tools at my disposal.  I do all these in manual mode, with a single flash behind a white umbrella to make a big soft light source and a reflector on the other side to fill in shadows.   Only editing I normally do is to crop and add in the vignette effect.  Occasionally I'll touch up a shot, clean up some dust or anything else that got in, but I try and not manipulate them too much.

I usually shoot at F11, on a small sensor DSLR you start losing image quality much below that due to diffraction.  Shots are handheld, 1/200th.  (That's one of the advantages of having an off camera strobe, you get a TON of light so you can hand hold.

Normally I'll do a full-length shot looking down, that gives the overall look and feel for the pen.  Then I'll do a few where I'm shooting at an angle with the focus set on the "key detail" like the centerband, or the wood grain, and allow the rest to go out of focus.  The effect is to really draw the eye to the center of interest.

I don't worry too much about metal getting too blown out, the soft light keeps it from being too bad, and I think the effect gives a nice feel for the sheen.

That said, here are some, love to hear your feedback. 





















Learning every day....


Steve


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## SDB777

I'm seeing shadows still...that is one of the advantages to HDR.  I do like the added vignette, I still much prefer the HDR effect.


Scott (love those blanks too) B


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## edstreet

Glare is not a hard thing to overcome if you know how glare is produced, what it is and how it works. It all boils down to angle management.  That is angle of the camera film plane, angle of the object, angle of the light and angle of the light bouncing off the object.



fernhills said:


> SDB777 said:
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> fernhills said:
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> Well how do you get glare out, looks like you have trees in your pen.
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> That my friend is the biggest downfall of shooting outside.  I've attempted to take the light tent outside to use the great effect from the sun, but it seems that the best plans are always overshadowed by a greater power....wind.
> You could use PhotoShop, but there is always a downside to that.  Long hours of staring at pixels and masking isn't what I'd call a fun day, but it can be done.
> 
> The easiest way to fix the problem would be to get the light tent set-up, buy a bunch of Daylight halogens/tubes and make a holder to keep them in a fixed position.  If you have the room to do this(a spare bedroom/den/whatever) would be great, but I just don't have the room available to leave the set-up in place.(Although the more I think of it....)
> 
> 
> Scott (a trip to HomeDepot might be in my future) B
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> One way to augment the bright sun light is to shoot on a cloudy or over cast day. On a cloudy day mother nature is brighter then the most brightest bulbs. If i want to shoot and it is sunny out and i don`t want to wait till the sun moves around, i get a sheet and make a tent by throwing the sheet over the picnic table umbrella.  I have a photo box set up, so i don`t have to do that now.  Good luck.
Click to expand...


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## SDB777

Glare doesn't typically become my 'enemy', it's mostly reflections in my awesome finishes(okay, I have opened my eyes, the dream of awesome finishes has passed and I'm feeling better)....but I do get reflections.  Even if I think I have every hole filled with a 'material', I still find the camera lens in the photo!


Keep those photo's coming everyone!  I love to see your works!!




Scott (glare from the wife...that's different) B




edstreet said:


> Glare is not a hard thing to overcome if you know how glare is produced, what it is and how it works. It all boils down to angle management.  That is angle of the camera film plane, angle of the object, angle of the light and angle of the light bouncing off the object.
> 
> 
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> fernhills said:
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> SDB777 said:
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> fernhills said:
> 
> 
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> Well how do you get glare out, looks like you have trees in your pen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That my friend is the biggest downfall of shooting outside.  I've attempted to take the light tent outside to use the great effect from the sun, but it seems that the best plans are always overshadowed by a greater power....wind.
> You could use PhotoShop, but there is always a downside to that.  Long hours of staring at pixels and masking isn't what I'd call a fun day, but it can be done.
> 
> The easiest way to fix the problem would be to get the light tent set-up, buy a bunch of Daylight halogens/tubes and make a holder to keep them in a fixed position.  If you have the room to do this(a spare bedroom/den/whatever) would be great, but I just don't have the room available to leave the set-up in place.(Although the more I think of it....)
> 
> 
> Scott (a trip to HomeDepot might be in my future) B
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> One way to augment the bright sun light is to shoot on a cloudy or over cast day. On a cloudy day mother nature is brighter then the most brightest bulbs. If i want to shoot and it is sunny out and i don`t want to wait till the sun moves around, i get a sheet and make a tent by throwing the sheet over the picnic table umbrella.  I have a photo box set up, so i don`t have to do that now.  Good luck.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


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## farmer

*Reflection and glare*



SDB777 said:


> Glare doesn't typically become my 'enemy', it's mostly reflections in my awesome finishes(okay, I have opened my eyes, the dream of awesome finishes has passed and I'm feeling better)....but I do get reflections.  Even if I think I have every hole filled with a 'material', I still find the camera lens in the photo!
> 
> 
> Keep those photo's coming everyone!  I love to see your works!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scott (glare from the wife...that's different) B
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edstreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> Glare is not a hard thing to overcome if you know how glare is produced, what it is and how it works. It all boils down to angle management.  That is angle of the camera film plane, angle of the object, angle of the light and angle of the light bouncing off the object.
> 
> 
> 
> fernhills said:
> 
> 
> 
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> SDB777 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fernhills said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well how do you get glare out, looks like you have trees in your pen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That my friend is the biggest downfall of shooting outside.  I've attempted to take the light tent outside to use the great effect from the sun, but it seems that the best plans are always overshadowed by a greater power....wind.
> You could use PhotoShop, but there is always a downside to that.  Long hours of staring at pixels and masking isn't what I'd call a fun day, but it can be done.
> 
> The easiest way to fix the problem would be to get the light tent set-up, buy a bunch of Daylight halogens/tubes and make a holder to keep them in a fixed position.  If you have the room to do this(a spare bedroom/den/whatever) would be great, but I just don't have the room available to leave the set-up in place.(Although the more I think of it....)
> 
> 
> Scott (a trip to HomeDepot might be in my future) B
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> One way to augment the bright sun light is to shoot on a cloudy or over cast day. On a cloudy day mother nature is brighter then the most brightest bulbs. If i want to shoot and it is sunny out and i don`t want to wait till the sun moves around, i get a sheet and make a tent by throwing the sheet over the picnic table umbrella.  I have a photo box set up, so i don`t have to do that now.  Good luck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

 


If you use cross polarization technic you don't have to worry as much about glare or white out.

Once you get rid of the polarized reflection or glare, then you can turn the strobes up.

You don't go to the lake on a sunny day with out your sunglasses.

I am using 2 1600watt strobes and don't have problem with glare.

Reflection is regulated how smooth the surface is and how the object is shaped and the angles of the camera to the subject to the light.


Farmer


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## SDB777

Seems like it has been quite some time since this one has made the climb back up for newer members to see.

I would recommend going to post #151 at the top of page 16(for some reason the photo's in PhotoBucket have a new address for the first post And I can't edit it to make them show up any longer).




Scott (photo's sell pens....simple) B


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## hcpens

What size /type of floods do you prefer?


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## SDB777

hcpens said:


> What size /type of floods do you prefer?


 

It doesn't really matter to me as long as I can get a lot of light from different directions, I can always 'fix' it in post processing.  I have started shooting ARW(Sony can't spell RAW), with a White Balance set on Sunlight(only because I don't like the Auto setting).


Currently I am using 4 100w 'soft' flood lights inside those 'clamp lamps'.  Two top, and the other two split on the two sides....




Scott (hope this helps) B


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## JohnGreco

Scott- What Sony are you using? I just picked up a NEX-6 and am pretty happy with the auto white balance. For lighting I'm using one 300 w/s strobe bounced off the ceiling in an otherwise pitch black room. 100 ISO, at around f10 I'm needing very little post production.


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## SDB777

JohnGreco said:


> Scott- What Sony are you using? I just picked up a NEX-6 and am pretty happy with the auto white balance. For lighting I'm using one 300 w/s strobe bounced off the ceiling in an otherwise pitch black room. 100 ISO, at around f10 I'm needing very little post production.


 


It's an older alpha350 14.2Mp.
Heard some nice things about the NEX line-up....



Scott (was thinking about going full-frame though) B


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## JohnGreco

I almost went full frame, but don't think I would've been able to afford anything else then haha! The lenses are bigger for the full framed NEX, too, and I do like how small the 6 feels compared to my old Canon DSLR. But then again, they are also faster. I'd say if you have the $$ go full frame


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## hcpens

Thanks for the info. Richard


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## SDB777

hcpens said:


> Thanks for the info. Richard


 


No problem, hope it helps!!


BTW, HDR was originally intended for landscape photography, and I've been trying to find time to enjoy taking some of those shots.

Here's an example of what the 'power' of HDR can create....








I know, it's not a 'pen', but I had a pen in my pocket when I took this photo!





Scott (thanks for peeking) B


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## thrustmonkey

OMG that is beautious!!!!!!!!!


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## MikeL

*My try*

I followed the guidence in this thread and I beleive it has improved my photos some. More adjustments could be made to my picutes but I sure do appreciate the willingness to share techniques. Thanks. And yes, that landscape picture is very cool!

The blank is stabilized buckey burl dyed black and gold from Exotics.


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## BSea

That's a nice picture Mike. Really good depth of field, and realistic colors.  Good job.


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## MikeL

Thanks. I should also give some credit to sylvinite. This thread and some of his tutorials has helped me a lot. 



BSea said:


> That's a nice picture Mike. Really good depth of field, and realistic colors.  Good job.


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## SDB777

MikeL said:


> Thanks. I should also give some credit to sylvinite. This thread and some of his tutorials has helped me a lot.
> 
> 
> 
> BSea said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's a nice picture Mike. Really good depth of field, and realistic colors.  Good job.
Click to expand...

 

Curious as to why you would give credit to 'sylvinite' in this thread?  As far as I can tell from looking all through this topic....he hasn't contributed anything.






Scott (wow.....guess I should bow to him or something) B


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## MikeL

I guess you are being serious?  If so, My mistake if I broke thread etiquette. I've learned much from many and was giving credit to what I have learned regarding pen photography.  If this was inappropriate, I am perfectly fine to delete what I have said if I knew how to do that. If you know to delete its fine with me to hit delete. My bad.


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## pendrijo

That's very interesting. Thanks for sharing!


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## SDB777

Can't believe over 30,500 views on this topic.  I would have never guessed it would have happened.


I've pretty much gone through all my editing programs, and replaced them with newer versions....but the PhotoMatix is still the same and still works great(go figure).  I have been playing with the Samsung Galaxy Note 3 imaging more lately, and the built-in HDR function seems to be producing some pretty good results(with very little, if any, effort on my part).



Also started playing with aerial video too, but that is probably left to another topic someday in the future.....





Scott (still photo'ing everything 3 times) B


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## SDB777

I'm betting at least four(ty) people got something new to snap photo's with this very day!?!  Congrats to you!!!

Let's see some of those great pen HDR photo's!!!






Scott (always room for more) B


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## SDB777

I'm betting there is a number of newer members that haven't thought about doing this yet?  If you'd like to just jump to the 'tutorial', it's a few pages back or you can just click this link to get you there:  >>>>LINK <<<< 



Feel free to ask questions....






Scott (32,000+ viewing) B


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## Browncoat

HDR for pen photography...interesting. There are some good shots in this thread, no doubt. And I'm of the opinion that if you find something that you like and it works for you, then full speed ahead. However, putting on my photographer hat, this is not the right genre for HDR. It's unnecessary and overkill. It's just overcompensating with software what should be much easier to achieve with good lighting and proper camera settings.

Hoping to avoid a long-winded tirade about HDR, I'll sum it up as best I can: HDR stands for High Dynamic Range. In a nutshell, as fancy as camera sensors are these days, they are still in the Stone Age compared to the human eye. We can see a much broader spectrum of light than what can be captured with a *single* camera exposure. And that's where HDR comes in...*multiple* exposures. By layering exposures (typically 3, 5, or 7), we increase the tonal range of light over what a single exposure can achieve.

HDR has many artistic interpretations. It's easy to "overcook" an HDR photo and go for extreme effects. With pen photography, we're looking for "photorealistic HDR", which is to accurately increase the tonal range and add depth to the photograph. In other words, make the wood grain stand out more and add a deep shine to the shiny parts. Here is one of my own artistic HDR photos:





This was five exposures, taken at high noon on a sunny day. There is some Photoshop work here, but mostly just HDR tweaks in PhotoMatix. Contrast the above with the middle exposure below, which is what I would've gotten from a "normal" photograph:





For HDR to be effective, you need a lot of tonal range. Very dark areas, very light areas, and a lot of middle ground. A wide tonal range is something you should not have with product photography using controlled lighting. Those very dark and very light areas should be totally absent from product photography, especially for something as small as an ink pen.

As I mentioned earlier, if using this technique is working for you, great! However, it's certainly not the be-all end-all. Once you're able to control lighting, you'll have a much more stable platform to work from that has repeatable and predictable results.


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## SDB777

Fair enough, but I don't 'burn' my HDR shots such as you have done with the tractor.


Scott (HDR still works better) B


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