# Choosing quality kits...



## Rusty914 (Mar 22, 2008)

Good afternoon, everyone.  

I've been lurking for some time, but only registered this week.  I recently finished my pen turning class and have the PSI instructional DVD.

I've made a few pens, mostly "slim line" style kits.  I feel I'm ready to move onto what I really love - fountain pens.  The ball point and pencil kits that I used seemed, well, a bit cheap.

I've been writing with fountain pens for many years.  I believe there's nothing like the feel of a good pen.  I don't plan to sell my work, but rather give them away to loved ones and build a collection for myself.  

I've spent time reading past threads and have noticed comments that certain kits seem to have specific flaws.  Can anyone suggest some quality kits & sources to start with?  

kind regards,
Rusty


----------



## BrentK (Mar 22, 2008)

Rusty I have found that most of the retailers sell a nice pen. Arizona Silhoette sells the Baron and Sedona very nice pens in my opinion. There is also the Jr. Gent and Jr Retro. I have only used the roller ball kits but they do come in the foutain pen also.
Thats just my two cents.


----------



## Malainse (Mar 22, 2008)

Rusty, Welcome to the group... 

Craft Supply USA has several fountain pens kits...That are of good quality.
http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/store/Pen_Making?Args=
The Jr Gentlemen,s, Jr. statesman and Retro all take the same tube/bushings and drill bits.   

They have other kits that might be to your liking, Emperor, Lotus and Imperial that are of good quality...

-------------
As far as nibs, the ones that come with the kits are not the best.  I recommend you purchase upgraded or 18 K ones form DCBluesman (Lou) who is a member of this site. Good quality and price. Plus he is a good guy...
http://www.penturners.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=32430


----------



## igran7 (Mar 22, 2008)

CSUSA AKA www.woodturnerscatalog.com has the best selection of higher end fountain kits.


----------



## Texatdurango (Mar 22, 2008)

Rusty, If it were me in your shoes, knowing what I know now, I would visit Craft Supply as mentioned above and buy a couple #050-4407 24k Artisan Fountain Pen Kits for only $7.25 apiece.  Some would scoff at these pens but they are light, well balanced pens and their nibs write smooth.  I made several and have two in my rotation of fountain pens.  They are easy to make kits and for the price, can't be beat.

Then I would visit Arizona Sillhoette and pick up a couple El Grande fountain pen kits and try my hand at making a "closed end" fountain pen with one of them.  They are very easy kits to make and are light as a feather.

You will have no problems with either of these kits and will end up with a couple nice pens that will last for years.

That's what I would do!


----------



## aurrida (Mar 23, 2008)

i recently started off making the csusa kits listed previously, excellent quality. have now begun making closed end with arizona's baronÂ´s for the same reasons george has said, though smaller than an elgrande. also excellent quality. 

in terms of practicalities, drill bits, tubes and bushings are all the same for: 

csusa, jr series jr gent, jr statesman, retro and i think the jr emperor

arizonaÂ´s, sedona and baron

arizonaÂ´s, elgrande and churchill 

there are other and i am sure within these two companies you will find  something with the quality you want.


----------



## redfishsc (Mar 23, 2008)

I am quite partial to the Sedona/Baron kits from Ariz. 

If you want a high-end look at a good price, the Jr. Majestic from PSI is a very nice fountain pen.

However, I will respectfully disagree about the quality of the Churchill/ElGrande. While they look good and feel good in the hand, they both have a PLASTIC nib coupler that is VERY prone to breaking. Every other FP I have made uses metal nib couplers that do not break. I will not make nor sell a Churchill/Elgrande until they remedy this inexcusable flaw. Too many people have complained about it and Berea doesn't seem to give a rip.


----------



## Texatdurango (Mar 23, 2008)

I thought I would take a moment to clarify a few points since I received several emails about my comments above.

First, I did not mean to imply that the Artisan pen was a "high End" pen, simply that when purchased in a group buy, the $5.43 it cost is a real bargain since Craft supply sells the nib alone as their replacement nib for $4.50.

Wrap a $2 acrylic blank around the $5 kit and you have a nice smooth writing fountain pen that can easily and affordably be given as gifts or sold inexpensively to those wanting to experiment with a fountain pen.

The second point is about the Berea nibs being problematic because they are plastic rather than metal.  Without starting the metal versus debate all over again and since Rusty did ask about kits having problems I think it fair to point out a few things.

The Berea nib holders used in the El Grande and Churchill kits are indeed plastic, as are countless thousands of other fountain nib holders from the finest nib manufacturers in the world!  I am contemplating doing a group buy on Schmidt front parts and last week they sent me samples to examine, all of which are plastic and these are not junk nibs, they are the finest Schmidt produces!

Custom fountain pen makers across the country are using plastic nib holders in pens and have been doing so for over half a century.  This â€œmetal versus plasticâ€ controversy popped up in the kit making community since most kits use metal end caps, center bands and nib holders all in their favorite plating and some argued that metal is better.

To those who think this is a â€œbig dealâ€ I say educate yourself before taking sides in this debate and venture out into a pen shop where you will you start seeing something differentâ€¦ fewer brass tubes in barrels, fewer pens with 50% metal plated components, pens weighing mere ounces rather than half a pound and LOTS of very nice pens with plastic fountain pen nib holders!

All I suggest is pick up a copy of Stylus magazine. Flip through it and notice how many fine pens are made using plastic nib holders.  Obviously, some pen makers donâ€™t see this as a flaw and Rusty if you choose a kit having a plastic nib holder, relax, you are in good company!


----------



## DCBluesman (Mar 23, 2008)

Well said, George!


----------



## aurrida (Mar 23, 2008)

here, here and i might be interested in the schmidt components. are you looking at the the press fit cap fitting as well george?

rusty what have you started


----------



## ed4copies (Mar 23, 2008)

Someone (sorry, I didn't note who) made a comment the other day that I will start using for MY pens.

Paraphrased: "Gee, for what I spent for that Waterford Crystal, you would think it would be more durable"  After shattering on cement floor.  Are we selling hand-crafted writing instruments or "silly putty"??[:0][:0][:0]


----------



## Texatdurango (Mar 23, 2008)

> _Originally posted by ed4copies_
> 
> Someone (sorry, I didn't note who) made a comment the other day that I will start using for MY pens.
> 
> Paraphrased: "Gee, for what I spent for that Waterford Crystal, you would think it would be more durable"  After shattering on cement floor.  Are we selling hand-crafted writing instruments or "silly putty"??[:0][:0][:0]


Good point!  I also read in a thread a few days ago where we were discussing making pens from acrylic bodies and someone asked would they withstand being dropped on the floor and another said they tested their pens for durability by dropping them out of a second story window.  I guess some need to submit their pens to the US Army for battleground use!


----------



## Rusty914 (Mar 24, 2008)

thanks for all the information, everyone.  I purchased a variety of kits.  I'll will be interesting to hold each in my hand and compare quality, etc.

Tex... you might have been joking about submitting pens to the Army for battleground use, but four of my pens (including two fountains) will be going to Iraq in May with a fellow Soldier.  

-Rusty


----------



## Aderhammer (Mar 24, 2008)

Wait, before you start turning, since you want high quality the pens need to be round, I'd switch to mandreless turning where you turn between centers rather than with the mandrel.


----------



## Rusty914 (Mar 27, 2008)

Mandreless?  Can you explain or point to a thread/FAQ?


----------



## Dan_F (Mar 27, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Rusty914_
> 
> Mandreless?  Can you explain or point to a thread/FAQ?



This is where it pretty much started as far as I know: 

http://www.penturners.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=29489&SearchTerms=between,centers

You can do the same thing with standard bushings, but John's fit the tubes so much better you'll get spoiled real quick. Much more can be found by entering "between centers" in the search function.

Dan


----------



## Rusty914 (Mar 27, 2008)

Those are very beautiful... but considering the investment I've already made in pen kits, wood, and tools... it's something that will have to go on hold for a while!


----------



## Dan_F (Mar 27, 2008)

You can still do between centers turning with standard bushings. All it will cost to get started is a dead center. You will want a hardened live center as well, but you'll need that for a mandrel anyway. If you are picky, you can use the chameleon tubes from CSUSA, which have additional plating, and will snug up the fit of the standard bushings just a little. 

Dan


----------



## RogerGarrett (Apr 8, 2008)

> However, I will respectfully disagree about the quality of the Churchill/ElGrande. While they look good and feel good in the hand, they both have a PLASTIC nib coupler that is VERY prone to breaking. Every other FP I have made uses metal nib couplers that do not break. I will not make nor sell a Churchill/Elgrande until they remedy this inexcusable flaw. Too many people have complained about it and Berea doesn't seem to give a rip.



I must, unfortunately, agree with this post.  While the Churchill looks nice and ElGrande both look nice, the plastic coupler is a problem.  I have only sold a couple - but I use one myself, and it broke at the coupler after one year.  I don't lay asleep at night hoping those I sold remain in one piece, but I don't want to sell any that have this weakness.  I use my remaining Churchill/ElGrande as gift pens now - until I'm out of stock.

Best,
Roger Garrett


----------



## bitshird (Apr 8, 2008)

I used a Baron as my daily writer, but the metal nib section just doesn't feel right, I did a few churchills and a couple El Grandes and they just feel better, I have some 2000 series American flat tops but forgot to order bushings and they also have a plastic nib section, The Barons, and Gents and others are nice eye candy, but lets remember they are Writing instruments, NOT weapons.
What happens if you drop a collector grade Mont Blanc or Parker, Waterman on the nib ???[:0]


----------

