# Jr Gent, Stateman, vs. Baron, Sedona



## jjudge (Feb 6, 2012)

I'm a keen fan of the Baron, Sedona pens.

I believe the Jr Statesman, Jr Gent as of similar size, weight, style-"ish"
And, now there are the Rineharts, Tritons, etc, etc.

Can I get some thoughts from you all on this? I'm fishing to "group" these various kits in my head.
e.g., if they are all mid-sized, weighty pens - whats the natural groupings/key characteristics? or whats the difference?

-- joe


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## SCR0LL3R (Feb 6, 2012)

I think the Rinehart & the original Jr Gents are the same size as a  Baron but the Jr Gent II, Jr Statesman & Triton are all slightly  larger diameter at the nib end of the body since they taper from one end  to the other.

The Triton differ from the Jr. Gent II and Jr. Statesman in that the  body is a little shorter.

The top of the bodies of the Jr Gent II, Jr Statesman & Triton are  about .480"(same as Baron/Sedona) and the nib end is about .512". They  don't feel very different in size & weight but those Hex rollerball grips on the Baron & Sedona are kinda unappealing to me. The fountain  pen versions don't have that issue... They are all round. (Some Sedona rollerballs now have 12 sided instead of 6 sided)

Cap sizes on the Jr. Gent II, Jr. Statesman & Triton are also slightly larger diameter.

The threads on the Jr Gent II, Statesman & Tritons are much nicer  than on the Baron/Sedona/Original Jr. Gent. I am not sure about the  Rinehart's threads.

The nice thing about the Sedonas and Barons from Berea is that the  Titanium Gold plating has a nicer, more natural gold color. Again, I am  not sure about the Rinehart but I believe it's a Berea kit too, so it  should have the same color.


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## jjudge (Feb 6, 2012)

I do have to say, though ... even thought I like the baron/sedona ... that the body of these pens is a turn off.

That is -- lots of nib & metal & post, with a (to me) non-proportional body of material.

If it wasn't for posting the pen, I would not use/make these pens.


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## SCR0LL3R (Feb 6, 2012)

jjudge said:


> I do have to say, though ... even thought I like the baron/sedona ... that the body of these pens is a turn off.
> 
> That is -- lots of nib & metal & post, with a (to me) non-proportional body of material.
> 
> If it wasn't for posting the pen, I would not use/make these pens.



I find they are a little top heavy when posted but then again I find something wrong with every style and am still not sure what I like best. Perhaps you would like a non-postable Jr Gent or Jr Statesman since it makes the body longer (in a way).

I have also made a few Vails from Bear Tooth Woods which is very similar to a non-postable Jr Gent II but in chrome or gold for less $. The cap is slightly larger diameter though. I like them and the price is right. I'll certainly be making more of them.


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## ren-lathe (Feb 6, 2012)

All are similar. You will probably have the same objection as to the amount of metal on the others. Also the jr statesman, gentle man, and the "retro" use the same tubes, in fact they literally use the same exact same bushings craft USA lists them for each pen but if you look at the part # they are the same. below is an image of a statesman jr


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## jjudge (Feb 8, 2012)

That is a pretty pen - beautiful material.


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## PenMan1 (Feb 8, 2012)

The Jr Gent II, Venus, Jr Statesman, Jr Marshall and Triton are all just larger than the Baron, Navigator, Sedona and Rinehart.

IMHO, the "Jrs" all balance better as the "Navigator line's" top is too heavy and makes it awkward to balance. Additionally, the dreaded black threads keeps the Nav line from being a big seller. The Rinehart seems to balance a little better and doesn't have goofy looking black threads. BUT, the components looks like hex nuts, giving the pen a very "home made" look. For these reasons my "Jrs" outsell the "Barons" by quite a bit.


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## jjudge (Feb 8, 2012)

Good point -- I am starting to hate those black threads/couplers.
I do need to make some Jrs, to get a better feel for them. 

What are your thoughts on the Triton, Andy/Penman1?


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## PenMan1 (Feb 8, 2012)

jjudge said:


> Good point -- I am starting to hate those black threads/couplers.
> I do need to make some Jrs, to get a better feel for them.
> 
> What are your thoughts on the Triton, Andy/Penman1?



The chrome /gold Triton is my hardware of choice. IMHO, the chrome plating seems to be more durable than the Rhodium on the Jr Gent. Additionally, the Triton is about 1/8 inch shorter overall and seems to balance better.

Additionally, I had nearly 200 Jr Gent IIs with bad thread couplers. I've never had a single thread problem with Triton.

Finally, the Triton centerband is 3 pieces which makes customization a snap. At the same price point as Jr Statesman, my Tritons out sell the Jr Statesman by a wide margin.

The gold Triton still has some plating/wear issues.


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## OKLAHOMAN (Feb 8, 2012)

Andy and I usually agree on 99.9% of things here but this is the .01% where we differ. 

I really, really really dislike the black threading on the Triton, the issue with threading on the Jr's series was an issue about 18 months ago and as I order them by the hundreds did cause me a problem but CSUSA replaced every one for me.
As to plating with Chrome vs. Rhodium we will agree to disagree ( in selling them it's much more impressive saying Rhodium plating than Chrome, we're selling pens not 50's cars:biggrin and in the over 1,000's I've sold never had a problem.
Andy is right on the C/B being 3 piece but the Jr. Statesman 22K and Black Titanium C/B IMO with out customization is much more defined and better looking than the Triton, so no customization is needed.
Yes Andy the price difference is substantial but worth it in my opinion. 
These are just my opinions and everone has one along with --- -----


PenMan1 said:


> jjudge said:
> 
> 
> > What are your thoughts on the Triton, Andy/Penman1?
> ...


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## avbill (Feb 10, 2012)

I sell 4 jrs. to 1 triton.  But I also use the standard length of the JR barrel on the triton; making all pens the same length.   Just by chance  I did notice that  all my jrs. are acrylic  verses triton being wooden. I finish my wood with CA  or lacquer  I prefer lacquer (i'm old school.)  The biggest problem is allowing the lacquer to cure. min. 45 days Lacquer is actually harder than ca and more flexible than CA  IMHO


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## PenMan1 (Feb 10, 2012)

ROTFLMAO!:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin: Like Roy and I haven't had this exact same conversation a few (hundred) times!

First, let me say that I in NO WAY think that the Jr. Statesman is lacking in any way. (I must admit that about 2 years ago I was a litle "jumpy" when every Jr Gent set I had was defective- This problem was fixed by Dayacom so time ago and doesn't seem to be an issue, today).

Secondly, I STILL SELL Jr. Statesman, A BUNCH OF THEM, AND I have no plans to replace them with Triton or any other component set currently available.

Thirdly, the OP asked me for my thoughts on Triton and I tried to be as fair to both Jr. Gent II and Trition as possible. I really, really, really, LIKE the Chrome Triton.

 First, because I get to put $12.16 (using the same blanks, tooling and finishing as Jr. Statie) more money in my pocket without noticing ANY quality issues. 

Secondly, I really, really, really LIKE the threading coupler of the Trition. It is nearly twice as long as the Gent coupler and in all the time I've been building Triton (+/- a thousand total units), I've NEVER had a coupler "creep up the barrel".

Lastly, quality component sets are just like women....each one beautiful in a unique way. For the record, I never said that I thought (because I don't) that Jr. Statesman is inferior to Triton in any way. I do feel that there is room on my table for both Triton and Jr. Statesman.  AND, the way I configure my Triton's make them more profitable for my market.

ROY AND I DO AGREE on most everything! AND I respect EVERY piece of advice he has ever given me. In fact, we don't really even disagree on Triton. I feel there is room for both Triton and JGII on my table. Roy's table doesn't need both! One of the wonderful things about this forum is that each person brings a unique perspective.

Respectfully submitted.




OKLAHOMAN said:


> Andy and I usually agree on 99.9% of things here but this is the .01% where we differ.
> 
> I really, really really dislike the black threading on the Triton, the issue with threading on the Jr's series was an issue about 18 months ago and as I order them by the hundreds did cause me a problem but CSUSA replaced every one for me.
> As to plating with Chrome vs. Rhodium we will agree to disagree ( in selling them it's much more impressive saying Rhodium plating than Chrome, we're selling pens not 50's cars:biggrin and in the over 1,000's I've sold never had a problem.
> ...


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## crabcreekind (Feb 10, 2012)

jjudge said:


> I'm a keen fan of the Baron, Sedona pens.
> 
> I believe the Jr Statesman, Jr Gent as of similar size, weight, style-"ish"
> And, now there are the Rineharts, Tritons, etc, etc.
> ...



OK the jr gent is the exact same except for one thing as the baron/sedona/rhineharts. The only difference is 1. they have crappy threads and they break easily, and the end cap it slightly smaller.
If you like the look of the jr gent. Go for the baron, you may spend a couple more bucks to get it, but you wont have it coming back for threading issues. 

The jr gent 2/ jr statesmen 2/ triton/ atrax. they are all the same size, except for maybe tube length. I am not sure on that one... But they all take the same bushings. They are all high quality pen kits, threads are good on all of them.

hope this helps


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