# Ouch... showing a new Baron...



## SuperDave (Feb 4, 2008)

... to a visitor and the rollerball would not write! Ouch... how embarrassing![:0][:0]

Guess I need to "test" all the pens prior to the show and replace all the malfunctioning refills...


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## Woodlvr (Feb 4, 2008)

PM Anthony and get some of the Schneider refills. I change all of mine before handing them over to a customer to test.

Mike


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## jwoodwright (Feb 4, 2008)

Good point.  Hopefully you still sold the pen after changing the refill...


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## airrat (Feb 4, 2008)

I hate the Hauser refills on them.


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## Rifleman1776 (Feb 4, 2008)

Did you pick off the black protective material that covers the tip?


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## LanceD (Feb 4, 2008)

All rollerball refills come with a protective cap. The refill won't fit inside the nib with the cap on. Usually gel fefills have a small protective covering over the very tip of the refill.


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## SuperDave (Feb 4, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Rifleman1776_
> 
> Did you pick off the black protective material that covers the tip?



No black coating on the tip, only the protective rollerball cover. She got a few hit-n-miss lines on some paper, so I took the pen and wore holes in the paper trying to get it to write and it was as if the refill was out of ink...


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## ed4copies (Feb 4, 2008)

This topic came up about six months ago, someone suggested we not insert the refill until the pen is purchased.

I think this is a pretty good idea (I have done it, since the post).  One or two pens have refills to "try".  The rest are empty and the customer can SEE that they are getting a "brand new" refill when they buy.

Just a thought


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## SuperDave (Feb 4, 2008)

> _Originally posted by LanceD_
> 
> All rollerball refills come with a protective cap. The refill won't fit inside the nib with the cap on. Usually gel fefills have a small protective covering over the very tip of the refill.




Not the issue. It tried to write but died. Hate to have to replace refills on expensive kits... if the Hauser refills are that bad, then AZS should swap them out or get a different supplier for their kits.


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## ed4copies (Feb 4, 2008)

Some years ago, I bought 100 rollerballs from CSUSA, WITHOUT refills.  

They gave me the appropriate discount and everyone went away happy.

Try that with YOUR supplier.

(Ducks and runs for cover!!)


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## SuperDave (Feb 4, 2008)

> _Originally posted by ed4copies_
> 
> Some years ago, I bought 100 rollerballs from CSUSA, WITHOUT refills.
> 
> ...



You can be my Emissary, Ed...

... Ed, how come spell check hits your user ID and suggests "Endoscopies" for a correct spelling...[}][}]... it knows something we don't?


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## ed4copies (Feb 4, 2008)

If you sell copiers, you spend a lot of time with "purchasing" (low level, new guys) people.  Easy to mistake for the parts that are studied in endoscopies.


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## SuperDave (Feb 4, 2008)

> _Originally posted by ed4copies_
> 
> This topic came up about six months ago, someone suggested we not insert the refill until the pen is purchased.
> 
> ...



Thats what I did, actually. The Baron was only a couple of days old and I inserted the refill and stated shooting blanks... she was disappointed to say the least. What I took away from this, is test the pens first so you don't have to make excuses to a buyer. Even taking the refill out and replacing it in front of the buyer is not good IMHO.


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## SuperDave (Feb 4, 2008)

> _Originally posted by ed4copies_
> 
> If you sell copiers, you spend a lot of time with "purchasing" (low level, new guys) people.  Easy to mistake for the parts that are studied in endoscopies.



... okay.... I'll just make sure I never turn my back and that your hands are empty and in plain sight if we ever meet!


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## gketell (Feb 4, 2008)

Take away that most all kit refills are for looks only.  Even after learning that the hard way on the cigars and slims I ASSuMEd that the refills on the JrStatesmans and Sedonas were of much better quality/quantity.  I'm no going back to my customer's customers and giving the each a new refill (or two) and an apology.

[xx(][V]

Just take the refill from the kit and toss it in the trash.  Replace with a good refill from Anthony and be happy to know your customers will be happy!

GK


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## gerryr (Feb 5, 2008)

I don't agree that the refills that come with the kits are all junk.  The Hausers are definitely junk, but the Schmidt are in an entirely different league.  I've been writing with the same refill in a Jr. Statesman rollerball that I made last summer.  When I make a Baron, the kit refill goes in the junk drawer.  When I sell the pen, a new Schmidt refill goes in the pen.  I haven't had a Schmidt 888 or 5888 fail yet.  In fact I have one customer who was buying Mont Blanc rollerball refills for the rollerballs he bought from me.  I gave him a Schmidt to try and he's quit using the Mont Blanc refills.  He likes the Schmidt better.


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## igran7 (Feb 5, 2008)

I agree with Gerry.  The Hauser refills are absolutely horrible!  However, the Schmidt refills have always worked flawlessly for me.  I have about 150 Schmidt refills on hand and replace all of my Hauser refilled pens with a Schmidt.  I havn't had a complaint yet.  All Parker refill pens get changed out with a Parker gel G-7 as well.


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## SuperDave (Feb 5, 2008)

Am I correct in my thinking that the Baron is an AZS design? If so, I wonder why BB has not changed refills in his kits...[?]


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## wdcav1952 (Feb 5, 2008)

Dave, the Baron is a Berea pen.  ArizoniaSilhouette has exclusive distribution rights on this particlar kit.


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## avbill (Feb 5, 2008)

The trend is the Hauser refills  has not work well enough so the better turner's are s replacing the    Hauser refills for a Schmidt refill.

A baron replace it with =_____________
A cigar replace it with =_____________
A slim-line replace it with =_____________


Someone suggested to replace the normal refill with a gel,   Why?


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## SuperDave (Feb 5, 2008)

> _Originally posted by wdcav1952_
> 
> Dave, the Baron is a Berea pen.  ArizoniaSilhouette has exclusive distribution rights on this particlar kit.



Thanks Cav... guess BB needs to put the heat to Berea... It makes absolutely no sense to have customers replace poor quality refills in a $15 kit. There are many quality kits out there, which you do not have to take "corrective action" with, to tolerate the inconvenience and nuisance of the Baron Von Hauser.

Thanks Cav, appreciate it.

Dave


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## SuperDave (Feb 5, 2008)

> _Originally posted by avbill_
> 
> The trend is the Hauser refills  has not work well enough so the better turner's are s replacing the    Hauser refills for a Schmidt refill.



My question is WHY should the customer have to do that? Does CSUSA sell a kit that we HAVE to consistently replace a part in order to confidently sell it to a client? I don't know of any.

That's like paying $32,000 for a Ford Exploder and replacing the motor when you get home because the one, only to get the same motor.[B)]

I am sure the reason most people "replace the Baron Von Hauser" with a Schmidt, is because of the inconvenience of having AZS replace the bad Baron Von Hauser... with another Baron Von Hauser.

For me, it's easier, more convenient and a better use of my time and resources, to buy a different kit from CSUSA until AZS fixes the problem. I had a missing part in a $38 kit from CSUSA and what did they do?; they sent another $38 kit I guarantee you, if CSUSA had parts missing regularly, they would correct it at the source.

Dave who is voting with his wallet...[}]


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## Gary Max (Feb 5, 2008)

I handel this in a different manner----personally I don't trust any refill that come with any kit---no matter where I bought it or how much I paid.
Simple trick------you buy a pen from me---I always give you a extra refill---makes for good PR --folks like free stuff---plus not every new refill is bad---so they have a spare when the first one does die.


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## Mudder (Feb 5, 2008)

> _Originally posted by wdcav1952_
> 
> Dave, the Baron is a Berea pen.  ArizoniaSilhouette has exclusive distribution rights on this particlar kit.



Hmmm,

Then how do we explain the navigator kit from Woodcraft?

http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=5300

Or the Tropical Island navigator?

http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=5981


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## SuperDave (Feb 5, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Gary Max_
> 
> I handel this in a different manner----personally I don't trust any refill that come with any kit---no matter where I bought it or how much I paid.
> Simple trick------you buy a pen from me---I always give you a extra refill---makes for good PR --folks like free stuff---plus not every new refill is bad---so they have a spare when the first one does die.



Gary,

As a policy, I agree with you. I ordered several refill styles from a vendor to check them out. If they perform well, I plan on doing the same and making them available on my web site.

D


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## Gary Max (Feb 5, 2008)

I started buying ink from another member here last year---Penworks---Anthony. You can spend a bunch of money keeping a good stock of ink on hand----but if you are going to be in the pen business----it's just part of my inventory. I only needed one person to complain about a pen not writing after two weeks to make a believer out of me.


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## DCBluesman (Feb 5, 2008)

For those who prefer not to have to order by the thousand, I will have Schmidt 5888F refills (the metal casing style), in both blue and black, in stock in about a week.  Check in the Most Valued Vendor Forum.


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## Rifleman1776 (Feb 8, 2008)

It seems that the smallest non-issues draw the most comments. I'm a guilty as the next on this. This is my second post. Enneyhow, whenever I finish a pen, I write the description on a string tag with the pen just finished (excepting fountains). That way, I find out if the refill works or is defective. Once in a jillion pens, I must replace the refill. Not a big deal. BTW, I find the Hausers OK. Not great but acceptable. Like most others, I agree, the Schmidt clearly excels. So, my advice is: test your work and you will avoid being embarrassed in front of customers.


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## SuperDave (Feb 10, 2008)

I checked all the Baron Hauser rollerball refills and tossed them all in the trash. One failed completely and all the rest were like writing with sand mixed in with the ink... just plain nasty. I replaced them with Schmidts and will not look back. "Acceptable Performance" is one thing and means different things to different people. For me, the only acceptable performance, is the best performance... especially in a $90.00 pen... and the customer's reactions prove this out and justifies the decision.


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