# Some pens using thread wrapped blanks



## Ted Sachs

Here are some pens that I've been doing lately. I've only been making pens for just over four months now so it must be very recently. LOL  I am working at combining an old hobby that I used to do over thirty years ago, custom fishing rod wrapping, and pen making. C&C is always welcomed in order to get better at this.


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## magpens

Gorgeous work, Ted !


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## jttheclockman

This is going to be fun. You have to show the green one with the chevrons and the green with the black carbon fiber. Beautiful works of art.


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## Jack Parker

Ted, those are truly outstanding!!! MORE:biggrin:


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## Ted Sachs

As requested. I think this is the green chevron one you are referring to.


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## Jack Parker

That green one is amazing, I can see what got John so excited:smile-big: I like that blue one on the CF, too. Very nice work.


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## jttheclockman

Ted Sachs said:


> As requested. I think this is the green chevron one you are referring to.




That is the one. The hits just keep on coming. Do save some for another posting. Let us absorb these. Man that work is great. The detail is fine. When you get settled in you need to make an album here and preserve these photos. Thanks for showing.


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## magpens

AMAZING !!! . That green chevron Celtic pen is purely amazing !!  When Mark sees it he'll want it for The Collection !! (or one like it)

And that threadwork over top of the carbon fiber !!!!!  Especially love the blue one !!!!

I love this amazing new "twist" to pen crafting !


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## thewishman

Those are amazing! Welcome!


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## Ted Sachs

Thanks y'all. I'm downloading some from the phone to the computer now and will post them tomorrow. I've got pics of a few I have in progress now, some that blow these away to me at least.


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## OKLAHOMAN

Ted, as we spoke last week you know what I think of these. Have you gotten the package I sent?


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## Ted Sachs

OKLAHOMAN said:


> Ted, as we spoke last week you know what I think of these. Have you gotten the package I sent?



I've not received it yet. I'm waiting on it so I can send you one of the blanks. I'm still having problems casting that I thought I had resolved already. I may go with the option of letting you get them cast if that is still on the table.


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## Indiana_Parrothead

Ted those are beautiful. I was toying with the idea of doing that myself but the high cost of all of the equipment to get started and the learning curve ( I have never done this before like you) detured me. 

Congratulations you have come up with one of the truly newest forms of pen blanks I have seen in years. A very exciting new direction.

Mike


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## mark james

...  So I've spent 2 years trying to reinvent the wheel !  And I simply needed to go fishing to see what I was missing.

Very nice application, I hope you run with it in front of the crowd.

Welcome to IAP.


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## qquake

Spectacular!


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## GaryMGg

Welcome aboard Ted. There's some stunning work displayed.
Love the green chevron.


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## Ted Sachs

Thank you y'all.  I'm having fun learNing what works and what won't. My biggest challenge is getting decent casts. I'm at about fifty pErcent success rate right now but getting better with a new step I've added.


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## stonepecker

While the green one is a work of art........my personal choice would be the blue one on CF.
That is stunning to me. Of course, in another color.....or combo.....it could be even better. (Which I would find hard to believe)


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## Jim Smith

Nicely done.  I have built a number of fishing rods and know the amount of work and detail that goes into wraps that are that complicated.  Excellent work!!!

Jim Smith


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## Kenny Durrant

Those are Sweet! I have a cousin that builds fishing rods and he wrapped some tubes for me by just wrapping the thread like you would the eyes and they looked good but not like those. I thought about trying it myself but liked mentioned before it's a whole different art so I figured I might try to get a little better a the ones I'm doing now than add something new. I'm impressed with what you did and can't wait to see the next ones.


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## OKLAHOMAN

Ted Sachs said:


> OKLAHOMAN said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ted, as we spoke last week you know what I think of these. Have you gotten the package I sent?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've not received it yet. I'm waiting on it so I can send you one of the blanks. I'm still having problems casting that I thought I had resolved already. I may go with the option of letting you get them cast if that is still on the table.
Click to expand...


Ted, yes that option is still open.


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## OKLAHOMAN

After talking to Ted ,these take hours and hours to wrap, and Ted has the patients of Jobe.


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## ladycop322

absolutely gorgeous


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## ericofpendom

Hi Ted, these are fantastic. We must have some video of how this is done or some step-by-step pics. Really great to see such quality.


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## kruzzer

Stunning work... now there is another style pen I can't make


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## Dale Lynch

Do you wrap the pattern right on the tube or do you weave it into a mat and then apply? Beautiful pens Ted.They would fit right in with the coachwipped  blank in the library if you would be willing to submit an artice in the future,


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## Ted Sachs

Spanx said:


> Do you wrap the pattern right on the tube or do you weave it into a mat and then apply? Beautiful pens Ted.They would fit right in with the coachwipped  blank in the library if you would be willing to submit an artice in the future,



Long story short, I wrap directly on the tube.  Some blanks I will put carbon fiber or fiber glass sleeves on and then coat with epoxy then wrap, some blanks get what is called the underwrap first, and some patterns that are closed in are wrapped right on a bare blank that has been scuffed.  A closed in pattern just means that you are wrapping the entire tube so that no brass shows through.  It is also the most time consuming and tedious wrap to do.  Wraps that have the carbon fiber or underwrapped are much easier since you are just wrapping a simple design that lets part of the underneath show through. In this case, the carbon fiber, or the thread you did the underwrap with. The underwrap is nothing more than starting at one end and wrapping your thread directly next to itself all the way down the tube.  The pattern wrap part is started basically as a spiral down the length of the tube with the spacing between "tops" of the spiral equal to the circumference of the tube. From that point you make your pattern come out by wrapping on either side of the starter spiral, or on only one side.  There are patterns where you might have two or more starter spirals spaced like a quarter of an inch apart, as an example,  running parallel to each other and  then wrap on one or both sides, or even both on one and only one on the other.  Patterns are created by one thread covering up the other on the return pass.  By changing the amount of wraps before crossing you change the shape of the pattern.  It's all really a lot simpler than it sounds if you can watch someone doing it and explaining as they go. To try and describe it without the visuals will only confuse for the most part. I'll try and get back to work on a simple pattern tutorial so people can better understand what is going on with wrapping.


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## Dale Lynch

Thank you for the information Ted.


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## Ted Sachs

Not a problem bud. Teaching is how this gets passed on down.


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## Waggoner

The wraps look great. I also have tried wrapping my own fishing rod its the past. It was no where near as nice as yours. However I never thought about putting it to use on pens. Great idea. My question is how do you finish them out,the same as you would for a rod???? Do you still make fishing rods? Would love to see a couple of them. Great work again.


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## Ted Sachs

Waggoner said:


> The wraps look great. I also have tried wrapping my own fishing rod its the past. It was no where near as nice as yours. However I never thought about putting it to use on pens. Great idea. My question is how do you finish them out,the same as you would for a rod???? Do you still make  rods. G reat work again.



I haven't made a rod in about thirty Five years now.  I wish I still had a couple of the ones I made and a couple of the cue sticks I wrapped back then. 

As Fit finisHing pen wraps, I still put pretty much the. I leave about a sixteenth to an eighth sick pay the end of the tube and cast that and clean it off after castingame finish on them I did back when but now I take that and cast it.  When doing a rod you have enough length to work with so that you can do a pretty turnaround whereas with pens I'm wrapping a very short tube it's on a dowel rod so there isn't the room to do that.  I run my pattern out on to the Dowel rod and do a quick turnaround for the spiral going back.  Once I've finished the pattern and put the finish on I take a brand new X-acto blade and cut off everything just pay the end of the tube


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## Skie_M

Ted Sachs said:


> Waggoner said:
> 
> 
> 
> The wraps look great. I also have tried wrapping my own fishing rod its the past. It was no where near as nice as yours. However I never thought about putting it to use on pens. Great idea. My question is how do you finish them out,the same as you would for a rod???? Do you still make  rods. G reat work again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't made a rod in about thirty Five years now.  I wish I still had a couple of the ones I made and a couple of the cue sticks I wrapped back then.
> 
> As Fit finisHing pen wraps, I still put pretty much the. I leave about a sixteenth to an eighth sick pay the end of the tube and cast that and clean it off after castingame finish on them I did back when but now I take that and cast it.  When doing a rod you have enough length to work with so that you can do a pretty turnaround whereas with pens I'm wrapping a very short tube it's on a dowel rod so there isn't the room to do that.  I run my pattern out on to the Dowel rod and do a quick turnaround for the spiral going back.  Once I've finished the pattern and put the finish on I take a brand new X-acto blade and cut off everything just pay the end of the tube
Click to expand...


Mud Hole has a very nice little kit for rod and cue stick wrapping by hand ... it's just a cardboard folding rod holder that costs about 10 bucks.



> "As for finishing pen wraps, I still put pretty much the same finish on them I did back then, but now I take that and cast it.  I leave about a sixteenth to an eighth sticking past the end of the tube and cast that and clean it off after casting.  When doing a rod, you have enough length to work with so that you can do a pretty turnaround, wereas with pens I'm wrapping a very short tube.  It's on a dowel rod, so there isn't the room to do that.  I run my pattern out onto the dowel rod and do a quick turnaround for the spiral going back.  Once I've finished the pattern and put the finish on it, I take a brand new xacto blade and cut off everything just past the end of the tube."



Fixed spelling and grammar for the guy on pain meds.


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## Ted Sachs

Thank you Skie.  I'm recovering from surgery last week after having a tumor reMoved from my middle ear and this has not been my best moment answering on my phone.  I appreciate the help. I noticed a whole paragraph was missing too that I somehow deleted.  When I get back on the computer I'll redo it all.  Between the pain meds and trying to do this on a phone I managed to just muddy it all up.


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## jttheclockman

I have to admit I have seen this done on a pen before, some 6 or 7 years ago if memory serves me well. If i can dig up the photo I will try to find it. That was the launching pad for me to get into doing this. Then I quickly learned it is not as easy as it looks. the more complex the pattern the more threads you need and it is a learning curve. Well life and health got in the way and never did pursue it but it was always in the back of my mind. Along with other ideas. I always liked this look and they do it many colors
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




This is an example of what i try to preach on this site all the time. Think outside the box. There are mediums to work in and ideas that have not even been touched. Along comes someone who has broken through and the next person can be you. I hope to see more such great artisan ideas come through here. I know I sound like a broken record by now but it is true. 

Ted keep up the great work and thanks for sharing.


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## tomtedesco

Outstanding work.


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## Ted Sachs

jttheclockman said:


> I have to admit I have seen this done on a pen before, some 6 or 7 years ago if memory serves me well. If i can dig up the photo I will try to find it. That was the launching pad for me to get into doing this. Then I quickly learned it is not as easy as it looks. the more complex the pattern the more threads you need and it is a learning curve. Well life and health got in the way and never did pursue it but it was always in the back of my mind. Along with other ideas. I always liked this look and they do it many colors
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> This is an example of what i try to preach on this site all the time. Think outside the box. There are mediums to work in and ideas that have not even been touched. Along comes someone who has broken through and the next person can be you. I hope to see more such great artisan ideas come through here. I know I sound like a broken record by now but it is true.
> 
> Ted keep up the great work and thanks for sharing.




Believe it or not, that's a relatively easy pattern to wrap and with the right colors really pops.


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## jttheclockman

Ted Sachs said:


> jttheclockman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have to admit I have seen this done on a pen before, some 6 or 7 years ago if memory serves me well. If i can dig up the photo I will try to find it. That was the launching pad for me to get into doing this. Then I quickly learned it is not as easy as it looks. the more complex the pattern the more threads you need and it is a learning curve. Well life and health got in the way and never did pursue it but it was always in the back of my mind. Along with other ideas. I always liked this look and they do it many colors
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> This is an example of what i try to preach on this site all the time. Think outside the box. There are mediums to work in and ideas that have not even been touched. Along comes someone who has broken through and the next person can be you. I hope to see more such great artisan ideas come through here. I know I sound like a broken record by now but it is true.
> 
> Ted keep up the great work and thanks for sharing.
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> Believe it or not, that's a relatively easy pattern to wrap and with the right colors really pops.
Click to expand...



OK you have been challenged:biggrin:


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## Ted Sachs

I've got a couple of wraps ahead right now, but as soon as I get those done I'll do this one for a Sierra pen. Actually, the wraps I do need to go on the Sierra Vista.



Edit: Are there any particular color ranges that you would like to see this in and do you want flat sided boxes like this our would you rather tubular shapes intersecting like this?


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## jttheclockman

Ted Sachs said:


> I've got a couple of wraps ahead right now, but as soon as I get those done I'll do this one for a Sierra pen. Actually, the wraps I do need to go on the Sierra Vista.
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: Are there any particular color ranges that you would like to see this in and do you want flat sided boxes like this our would you rather tubular shapes intersecting like this?




Surprise me. You are in the driver's seat. No rush I was having a little fun. It amazes me that you can see a pattern and without a blink of an eye you know the pattern. Glad that you joined our group.


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## OKLAHOMAN

*Eventually*

*Some one will try to copy your work, it's just the nature of of things here, but I just don't see them living up to your quality. I've always said to be copied is one of the biggest complements a person can receive.  *


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## MShepard

Those are awesome!


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## jttheclockman

OKLAHOMAN said:


> *Some one will try to copy your work, it's just the nature of of things here, but I just don't see them living up to your quality. I've always said to be copied is one of the biggest complements a person can receive.  *



Not to be negative but Ted is not the first to do this . I saw weaved patterns on a sierra pen about 5 or 6 years ago. Like I had mentioned before that is what got me interested in the idea. I dabbled a little but did not dedicate the time needed to learn tying to begin with.  There are also many people that make pens using thread but no weaving patterns, They use them in place of doing a segmented blank. Here is an example.

Now the dedication to doing what Ted is showing us is extreme. Not at all easy to do on such a small tube. I marvel at his work. I will continue to enjoy every minute of it as long as he continues to show us mere mortals.


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## alphageek

I'm not sure why Roy introduced the topic of someone copying Teds designs (nor do I understand the need to highlight it all by bright red posting).... but I have to say that in my opinion Ted makes the perfect IAP member and am glad to see him here.   He is showing something that is beautiful, he is sharing significant tips about how its done.  I don't know that I've seen it here, but I know that on Facebook he has even shared the public domain plans that he has used for these pens (admitting that even his stuff stands on others shoulders).

I don't think he is afraid of copying - and I'm GLAD for that.   I know that there is some people here who want to keep some designs/processes unique to themselves and they have the right to do that.   But I'm glad that many, many more post their ideas to share and let people try their own twist (pun intended) on things.

We need to share with the next generation, otherwise every amazing thing we do here will die with the maker.   In some ways, I wish the old ways of apprentices would return to keep the arts/woodworking more alive!


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## Ted Sachs

alphageek said:


> I'm not sure why Roy introduced the topic of someone copying Teds designs (nor do I understand the need to highlight it all by bright red posting).... but I have to say that in my opinion Ted makes the perfect IAP member and am glad to see him here.   He is showing something that is beautiful, he is sharing significant tips about how its done.  I don't know that I've seen it here, but I know that on Facebook he has even shared the public domain plans that he has used for these pens (admitting that even his stuff stands on others shoulders).
> 
> I don't think he is afraid of copying - and I'm GLAD for that.   I know that there is some people here who want to keep some designs/processes unique to themselves and they have the right to do that.   But I'm glad that many, many more post their ideas to share and let people try their own twist (pun intended) on things.
> 
> We need to share with the next generation, otherwise every amazing thing we do here will die with the maker.   In some ways, I wish the old ways of apprentices would return to keep the arts/woodworking more alive!



Many years ago I started out as an apprentice under an Englishman working to be a cabinet maker.  I worked my way up slowly until I finally made shop foreman.  In that process one of my duties was to teach those under me the different facets of cabinet making.  That mindset has forever been engrained in to my thought process.  I don't believe in keeping things like that a secret.  I will help anyone that has the desire to learn anything I know.  I did it as a cabinet maker and I did that in the oil field. I consider it selfish to know how to do something and not want to share it with someone wanting to learn how to do it.  Will this less to less sales for me?   I doubt it with this.  This process takes a lot of dedication and even more patience.  It takes a certain person willing top spend the hours I spend wrapping these tubes.   I work on these pretty much all day every day.  It took a lot of trial and error to find out how to make rod wrapping work on pen making because a lot of it doesn't directly transfer over to the other and most patterns have to be altered to work on pens.  My canvas is a lot smaller than the rod maker had with a fishing rod.  I'm not trying to tout my own horn here,  but only give a piece of the picture of what this is that I'm doing.  I welcome others to get in to this genre of pen making. It's only when you have many people doing it that it grows in what can be done.  There are a lot more people wanting this type of blank than I imagined and a lot less doing it that I would have thought.  I never expected to be pretty much the only one.  I never posted my stuff here until now because I just knew there were others doing it and doing it on a much better scale than I.  

I apologize for the long post and the rant, but I don't understand the thought process of not sharing how to do something others want to learn.  If I could make videos I'd have made one by now. I've been deemed disabled by the doctors and the line of work I was forced out of its no longer an option.  Disability pays do little that the wife and I had to move in with our daughter and her husband so that I am close to the VA hospital.  DOing the wrapping had been a blessing in that I can no longer do a bunch of pens every day like I could turning wood.  That was something I couldn't do on my budget.  Thread is relatively cheap and the process is long so now a pen a week it's doing good.  There are a bunch of easy patterns I'll be doing just too sell that I've figured a way to do and still make a solar our two an hour on.  I'll still play with the"theme" type of pen like the Dragon pen and a couple of other ideas I want to explore and I'll offer those blanks as a custom order at a substantially hight price.


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## jttheclockman

Last 2 posts is what it is all about. Ted your work will stand alone here. It will be a huge pleasure to watch you continue to dazzle us. A pen medium that is not readily used and to do it with such exactness. I do know first hand this is not an easy thing to do so I appreciate it even more so. Continue success here and thanks for sharing.

The discussion about sharing ideas and new blanks has been discussed many times here. I have voiced my opinion on this many times and I truely believe that there is so much more out there to this hobby. I have said this time and time again and I do it to try to motivate people to try new things and not be afraid of failures. 

Along comes a perfect example of these thoughts. There is more out there. Thanks again Ted.

Happy turning.


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## Ted Sachs

It would appear that it is I that should be thanking y'all. I'm getting kits sent to me by a couple of people now so I can experiment with new kits. As I have said, I am on disability and in that, I can't go out and buy every kit out there to try the ideas in my head.  Like I just said to one of the donors, I can't believe the generosity of this group. I am beside myself and only hope I can do them all justice.  I have so many patterns floating around that I want to see done. There are new patterns that I find everyday that when I see it the first thing that pops in my head is "Hey, that would look awesome on........"  I found a pattern that has a Phoenix rising from the ashes, one that has a Navajo blanket look to it if the colors had been changed, and another with the Thunderbird flying that would look great on the Southwest pen.  There are some really elegant looking patterns that would look good on some of the high end pens, or what I call high end pens, and with the right color combination with just a edging of either chrome, metallic black, or gold to tie the blank in to the finish of the pen. Now I have to get back to work. Just starting a red metallic Dragon pen. This one ought to slay y'all.


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## tjseagrove

OKLAHOMAN said:


> *Some one will try to copy your work, it's just the nature of of things here, but I just don't see them living up to your quality. I've always said to be copied is one of the biggest complements a person can receive.  *



But how many years before the quality of the wraps that are presented can be duplicated?  This has a strong artistic quality that will be difficult the match.

9395


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## tbroye

PSI and others will have copies out by the first of the year.  Those are a work of art.  Wrapping a Fishing Pole is hard enough but a pen tube and then casting is a whole different level.  There is a program being written as we post about this, or some kid in Asia is sitting in his hut working on it.


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## Ted Sachs

tbroye said:


> PSI and others will have copies out by the first of the year.  Those are a work of art.  Wrapping a Fishing Pole is hard enough but a pen tube and then casting is a whole different level.



I'm using mostly PSI pens for my "Theme" pens.  
They are what get my cobwebs turning. Check out the thread I started just a minute ago on Patterns  for future pens I want to do.


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## OKLAHOMAN

*You can't copy quality*

Ted and Dean, my post was not meant to say anything but what it said that Ted's work is so far out there that anyone that tries to copy it will not get to the quality Ted has. Ted has no thoughts of being the only one that makes these and as we have talked I know he would answer any questions as to how. My post was simply to let him know that some will try but fall way short of his quality for now.  
My highlighting it in red was only to show to the entire IAP membership that read the post that there are and will always be those that would rather as said by you Dean, stand on others shoulders than think for themselves.
Ted, your showing and sharing is to be commended, but as I said in my original post that Dean referenced I just don't see in the near future anyone meeting your quality sir.


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## Skie_M

Simple brainstorm...


Oh, and I also advocate sharing ... how else would we be able to sit miles apart from each other and STILL help advance each other's art, as though we were sitting next to you?



Use a nylon rod or PVC pipe rather than a wooden dowel for your backer rod.  If it's long enough that it gets too floppy, you can run a steel rod inside it as a backbone to keep it straight.  CA doesn't readily stick to nylon or PVC, and epoxy also has issues with nylon.  In this way, you could line up several pen tubes (perhaps spaced a half inch apart on the rod) and wrap a multitude all at once.  Apply your color seal and a few layers of rod building epoxy or whatever you wish to seal with ...

Cut the blanks apart and trim back to the brass tubes ... then send them off for casting or sell them as is to someone who wants to do the casting themselves ... or cast them and sell them like that.  Don't cut the backing rod, just slide them all off the nylon rod at once!

This technique would work with any kit pen style that uses short tubes of ANY size, you just need the properly sized nylon rod to use as a backer.

This technique would also work best with any static pattern ... especially if the pattern's signature matches the gap between brass tubes perfectly.


Have you thought about stickers on top of your thread art, sealed in place?  It would make a pattern like the confederate flag an easy piece.  Decals would work as well.


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## Ted Sachs

I understand what you are saying and might have to give some of it a try. As for the stickers or decals, I can't see doing that. The whole thing about the wrapping is being able to, while not duplicate, create something that when you look at it, you know what I'm portraying. Your example, for example, about the Confederate Flag. It just so happens, I found a pattern that if I wrap it using the right colors you will immediately say that's the battle flag.  It won't be it exactly, but it will sure bring that to mind.  For me, my wrapping has to stand on its own for the most part. When I do a themed pen like the dragon pen, I want you to look at it and see his scales running down his body. I'm not so sure about the sticker or decal aspect. At least, not right now.  I do thank you for the advice though. I will give it more thought, but that was my immediate impression.


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## MikeL

Outstanding work. Very impressive.


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## jttheclockman

I agree 10000% do not ever add stickers. This is an art in itself that needs to stand alone. The patterns themselves tell the story. PSI would never be able to duplicate this medium even if they tried. No worries there.

Now Ted I am sure you know of these sites because of your past doings with rods. But these are the ones I belong to and joined back in 2009 when I became interested. There is a site dedicated to weave patterns and you can see many examples of the patterns in the galleries. This is where I saw the pen but for the life of me I can not find it again. I may have saved the photo on my old computer and never brought it over. I searched for the owner but was never able to find out who did it. Maybe of interest to you or others. Billy40 is the main owner and is the best of the best in thread wraping. He holds classes and I was to attend one back in the day but was never able to make it. 

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## Marko50

Those are absolutely amazing pens!


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