# advice from the pros needed



## nwcatman (Jul 24, 2008)

i am building a stars and stripes baron and have the following finishing sequence in mind but i have never gone this route b4 and am sure theres a better way. anyway, heres the plan:
1. sand with 220, 360, 400, 500, 600, 800, 1000, 1,200 then with abralon 1000, 2000, 4000.
2. buff on a wheel, holding the blank vertically, with tripoli then white diamond.
3. apply waterlox high gloss one coat at a time, rubbed on, for at least 12 coats, waiting 24 hours between coats. 
now.....the instructions say to buff between waterlox coats but does that mean w/a hand held soft cloth, a buffing wheel with tripoil or...????


any suggestions are appreciated.  thanks


----------



## redfishsc (Jul 24, 2008)

I would NOT buff bare wood with a buffing wheel and tripoli/white diamond before applying Waterlox. I am sure some folks have done it, but tripoli will sometimes stain wood a red tint, and if the wood is open-pored like oak or zebrawood, you'll get the buffing compound in the grain more or less. 


Personally if I was applying Waterlox (which is the finest oil-based polyurethane on the planet if you ask me) I would sand up to around 600 grit and NO MORE. 

Someone here will tell me that I need to polish the wood to a glassy surface before applying the finish, but professional finish manufacturers will tell you that their finishes need something to bite into (especially Waterlox b/c it's a LOT higher in solids). Lots of people gloss-up their wood blanks before applying finishes and never have a problem with it. Others, like me, don't bother spending the time doing something that the Waterlox will do for me.



Here is what I'd be a lot more inclined to do, and I assume you are shooting for a gloss finish.

1) Sand to 600, finish your sanding by sanding along the grain to remove the scratch rings from lathe sanding. If you want to sand higher, go for it. 

2) Apply the Waterlox however you want--- I'd spray it with an airbrush or a small spray gun, personally. DO NOT put on heavy coats. 

3) Allow to dry until it's sandably hard (you'll need to use your own judgement). This may mean overnight, I can't recall if Waterlox is fast drying.

4) "Buff" in this case means very gently "abrade" or "scuff" the finish with a very fine sandpaper (you can use 0000 steel wool) to give the next coat something to bond to, and also to smooth out any dust nibs in the finish. 

5) Lay however many coats you want. Thicker is not always better--- thick finishes will chip a LOT easier than a thin finish. 



Personally if you airbrush on Waterlox, you should be able to get a dreamy finish in 3-5 coats. You MAY need to thin the Waterlox a bit with mineral spirits to make it behave if doesn't flow out into a nice, slick coating. 


For the high-gloss: if the final coat doesn't give you the gloss you want, let it cure for several days, preferably a week, and micromesh it (start around 4000, perhaps, and go all the way to 12,000, use water to wet sand). You can finish the final gloss with a scratch remover like Novus or something. I use 3M's Finesse-It II ($40 a quart).



BTW this is a LOT of work for a finish! I'm much more inclined to use lacquer since it's a LOT faster drying. I can do everything in the above procedure in one day (except the micromesh gloss-buff) with the catalyzed lacquer. Just wear a mask!!!


----------



## DCBluesman (Jul 24, 2008)

Assuming you are using one of the Stars and Stripes kits, you are wasting your time with Waterlox.  The wood used in these kits is stabilized, so the Waterlox will not penetrate.  It will not wear, but will simply rub off the areas which are more plastic than wood.

For stabilized woods, run through about 600 grit, then buff with tripoli.  Add a couple of coats of sanding sealer, lacquer or CA, then polish with White Diamond.


----------



## nwcatman (Jul 24, 2008)

redfish- i mentioned 12 coats as thats what i read in a post titled " finishing for pen turners" from  woodturnerruss.com.    " twelve coats of waterlox will give an unbelieveable gloss" etc etc


----------



## nwcatman (Jul 24, 2008)

dc- i have been using  shellawax on my pens/peppermills, but buffed the wood w/tripoli and white diamond b4 i put on the finish and have noticed it really shines up the wood that way b4 i apply the shellawax. i thought about buffing w/tripoli again after the shellawax but didn't know it it would scratch the finish.


----------



## marcruby (Jul 24, 2008)

I use Waterlox as a bowl finish and love it, but I've never needed more than 6 coats, and that, rarely.  Whatever you decide remember that Waterlox sets slowly.  If you're going to but a full 12 coats on (the finish might weigh more than the pen at that point) wait a day between coats after the first 2 or 3.

Hmmm.  I just saw Lou's comment - he's right.

Marc



nwcatman said:


> redfish- i mentioned 12 coats as thats what i read in a post titled " finishing for pen turners" from  woodturnerruss.com.    " twelve coats of waterlox will give an unbelieveable gloss" etc etc


----------



## RussFairfield (Jul 24, 2008)

Did I say that.
Yes, Waterlox will give you an unbelievable finish, but I would use it on bare wood. Oil finishes don't work very well on stabilized wood, or wood that has been filled with CA glue or a sanding sealer.  The oil stucks OK, but there is no penetration into the stabilizing plastic, and no accenting of the grain; and accenting of the grain is the reason we would be using it. There can also be a difference in gloss between the stabilized areas and the void areas that Lou mentioned because the oil penetrates the voids and not the stabilizing plastic and accents the difference more than any other finish. 

Rather than putting on many single coats, sand just as you have, and then soak the pen barrels in the Waterlox for 2-hours. Remove them, wipe off the excess, and set them aside for a week to get fully dry. Then buff with the Tripoli, White Diamond and wax.

You can use little corks to keep the finish out of the tubes, or forget about it and clean them out with a brass gun cleaning brush of the appropriate caliber that is held in a drill.  

The reason for polishing the wood surface to a higher gloss than 600 is that the higher grit closes the wood to penetration by the oil and there will be less color change and more accenting of the grain after sanding with 12,000 Micro-Mesh than there is at 600. 

Your flag pen will look great with a CA finish and even better under a lacquer. The Waterlox will give it a darker colorand a more aged appearance, but that will also look good.


----------



## nwcatman (Jul 24, 2008)

russ- how about sanding to a high luster then 3-4 coats of shellawax?


----------



## redfishsc (Jul 24, 2008)

Lou, Russ, thanks for clarifying about Waterlox on the stabilized wood.


----------



## RussFairfield (Jul 25, 2008)

We usually think of a shellac finish as being too soft for a pen when it used on bare wood, but it is more durable finish when put on a wood that has been hardened by  stabilizing or a CA glue.

I show the use of the shellac in my website instructions because it is a good way for a beginner to get a nice finish without a lot of problems. It is also a reasonably good finish that is almost equal to a lacquer for durability.  
http://www.woodturner-russ.com/Pen32.html


----------



## nwcatman (Jul 25, 2008)

russ- what laquer finish do you recommend?


----------

