# Pen vise



## ken69912001 (Aug 25, 2006)

I saw today where Lee Valley has a pen vise now. I wonder how good it would be.
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=54855&cat=51&ap=1
Looks like it runs on three guide rods. It only $39.50.


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## wood-of-1kind (Aug 25, 2006)

Thanks for posting. I have a Lee Valley closer by my home. Will check it out by next Saturday. Usually items carried by LV are of good quality and they don't carry the 'cheap' stuff.

-Peter-


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## DocStram (Aug 25, 2006)

To be honest with you, that vise looks like the same one I bought from WoodCraft. I'll sell you mine for $25.00 plus shipping. 
Meanwhile, take a look at the Paul Huffman Vise being auctioned off in Fundraising.


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## jjenk02 (Aug 25, 2006)

I have one from Pennstate item # DRILLCENT3 that I purchased several months ago and it works great. It is differant from the one Leevalley has.


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## kenwc (Aug 25, 2006)

The Lee Valley vice in the link is basically the same design as the Woodcraft and the older PSI model.  I see nothing in the design that would prevent it from the flex that the two vises suffer from. (Perhaps the brass bushings?)

I would like to hear feedback from someone who has touched the LV vise and checked the flex.

I also just bought the new drillcent3 from PSI and have not used it yet but I'm not happy with the lack of real estate on the base needed to clamp it to the table.


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## cozee (Aug 25, 2006)

Yep, 3 guide rods. Should provide for one stable vise.  I may have to look into getting one, or making my own. My Channel Lock vise works quite well at the moment but can be a little questionable at times. Just might fashion one out of hardwoods.


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## chigdon (Aug 26, 2006)

I think that one looks like it would work a lot better than the PSI vise and not nearly as good as Paul's vise.


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## cozee (Aug 26, 2006)

I admit Paul's vise is a useful looking unit but presently $200??? I'll pass. Besides, the donation button on the home page does work I have found out.


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## jjenk02 (Aug 26, 2006)

> _Originally posted by kenwc_
> <br />The Lee Valley vice in the link is basically the same design as the Woodcraft and the older PSI model.  I see nothing in the design that would prevent it from the flex that the two vises suffer from. (Perhaps the brass bushings?)
> 
> I would like to hear feedback from someone who has touched the LV vise and checked the flex.
> ...



I added a larger base to the bottom of my vise for clamping and it
works great. The Drillcent3 from PSI is a new version, that is a lot better than their old one.


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## DocStram (Aug 26, 2006)

Hey Greg .... I agree that it's alot of money for a vise, but it's also a lot of vise for the money. The Paul Huffman Vice is like sitting down behind the wheel of a high performance sports car. You're a bodyman, right? You know the difference between an everyday body repair guy and a bodyman whos a craftsman.  The 200 dollar mark is a real benchmark no question about it. But, it's more than a purchase. It's a way of making a sizeable donation to IAP and getting something really special in return.  
By the way, I took a look at the pictures of your shop. Pretty conveniently laid out. Is it in your basement? What are the plans for the bowling pins? I was trying to figure out what the row of glass looking shelves or trays or whatever they are  ... are those storage bins. Just seeing if I can swipe any ideas for my shop.


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## chigdon (Aug 26, 2006)

> _Originally posted by cozee_
> <br />I admit Paul's vise is a useful looking unit but presently $200??? I'll pass. Besides, the donation button on the home page does work I have found out.



I know that is a lot for the vise but I don't know what his normal price is.  Just so you know I would not even consider selling my vise for $200.  It is the best tool for pen making I have ever bought period!


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## ctEaglesc (Aug 26, 2006)

What am I missing here?
If the table is oriented 90* to the bit all you need is a "V" block and an"F" clamp (Or a derivation there of) to hold the blank "plumb"
If you have a DP you should have a machinist DP vice.It will refrencethe blank to the bit providing the blank is square.
$40.00 for a plumb hole? you have got to be kidding.


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## cozee (Aug 26, 2006)

> _Originally posted by DocStram_
> <br />Hey Greg .... I agree that it's alot of money for a vise, but it's also a lot of vise for the money. The Paul Huffman Vice is like sitting down behind the wheel of a high performance sports car. You're a bodyman, right? You know the difference between an everyday body repair guy and a bodyman whos a craftsman.  The 200 dollar mark is a real benchmark no question about it. But, it's more than a purchase. It's a way of making a sizeable donation to IAP and getting something really special in return.



I am not saying that IAP isn't a worth donating to and have done so on my own. Nor am I saying the vise isn't worth anything. Just saying that this vise isn't for me. Some people like high performance sports cars while others like hipo muscle cars!!!!!! Me, I prefer classic motorcycles!!!![][8D]



> By the way, I took a look at the pictures of your shop. Pretty conveniently laid out. Is it in your basement? What are the plans for the bowling pins? I was trying to figure out what the row of glass looking shelves or trays or whatever they are  ... are those storage bins. Just seeing if I can swipe any ideas for my shop.



Yep , one half of the basement. Still looking to add a woodworking table and an airhockey table. It has changed a bit since this photo was taken. Things have again been moved around a bit. Not sure what you are speaking of when you say glass shelves or trays. Unless you are speaking of what you see behind the miter saw. Those are a couple rows of 1/64th diecasts. Top row are for the most part Yada Big Time muscle cars and the lower row is a mix of Muscle Machines and Hot Wheels. Oh yeah, we've also added a 65" projection TV. My son and his buds find it great for playing video games and watching the races!! We got it since my parents decided to downsize to a 46" TV!!!  We still lots of remodeling to do and things will change and move a few more times before it's all said and done!! 

The bowling pins are the last of about 3 dozen I have been refinishing and flaming for various awards and trophies. These last 3 (along with a toilet seat or two) are going to be done for a friend of mine as awards for his last slotcar race. The far end in the picture is my airbrushing area. About all I do anymore is small items, i.e., helmets, tanks and fenders, t-shirts, and things such as the bowling pins. Done a set of golf clubs earlier this year. Have to finish my table top booth so as to please the LOMF!!![]


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## chigdon (Aug 26, 2006)

> _Originally posted by cteaglesc_
> <br />What am I missing here?
> If the table is oriented 90* to the bit all you need is a "V" block and an"F" clamp (Or a derivation there of) to hold the blank "plumb"
> If you have a DP you should have a machinist DP vice.It will refrencethe blank to the bit providing the blank is square.
> $40.00 for a plumb hole? you have got to be kidding.



You seem to be happy with however you are doing it so I guess you are not missing anything.  Is there a question here?


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## ctEaglesc (Aug 27, 2006)

"Is there a question here?"
Why does someone feel they  need to spend $40.00 to drill a hole.


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## Dario (Aug 27, 2006)

Eagles,

You of all people knows how important a perfectly centered hole is when drilling a special blank.  Whether it is something you spent hours/days to make or just a piece that is really rare or special to you.

The PH vise helps us get better results and all it takes is a few "saved" special blanks to pay for itself.  With your handmade blanks probably just one.

For more than a year I drilled my blanks with a hand drill setup and home made vise made of scrap wood...it worked and was happy with it but (knowing and having the experience I have now) if I can swing it then I would have bought a DP and PH vise and won't regret it a bit.

I am not saying it is the only way...as I said I did without for more than a year...but for me, I would pay more than twice to drill a perfectly centered hole.


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## cozee (Aug 27, 2006)

I mentioned my "Channel Lock" vise above. I am speaking of a set of pliers. I have drilled Corian blanks with them square on. But then I have attached two simple little battery powered lasers to my DP. This way I can see on the outside of the blank where the bit will go on the inside. I can drill blanks of all sizes this way along with about anything else I choose to drill. Even with a vise, one will need to be sure the blank is as square as possible in it. If a blank isn't cut fairly square then you cannot assume it will set square in the vise jaws. I haven't seen a vise that "self centers" a blank vertically without at least two sides being cut square. I have checked several of my blanks that appear to be square but when measured are not. Since the drilling of a "special" blank is important, the perfection of the bore starts before the vise. Anything that sets square to the DP table which is square to the bit is able to hold a blank square for boring. 

I can understand the purpose and intent of the vise being up for auction but please just don't make it sound as though there is some miricale vise which will change the direction of penturning all by itself. And that if one doesn't have it they just are not doing things right. If one looks outside of the penturning box, there are vises which will work just as well and or better due to their versatility. Especially since some models have optional jaws to accomadate various shapes, sizes, and variances of materials.


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## DCBluesman (Aug 27, 2006)

The issue here is NOT whether or not the Paul Huffman Sidevise is worth the money.  This is a simple matter of where you choose to spend your energy and your money.

For some people, drilling a straight hole through the center of something is like falling off a log.  They can use pliers or whatever else is around and do a perfect job.  For those of you with this ability, thank your lucky stars.  You will have more cash for other hobby purchases.  

For those of us who are more challenged (considerably more challenged in my case), a tool like this is a blessing.  I bought mine in 2004 after blowing out numerous blanks.  Yes, it was more than other vises, but I have confidence in it and that has made a world of difference.  

Where has I cut corners?  Let's see...Ryobi benchtop drill press and bandsaw, both of which were under $100.  $15 arbor press.

Instead of knocking another person's choice of where they spend their money, why not spend more time either 1) in your shop, or 2) admiring the work displayed by others.  

The negativity in portions of this thread goes far beyond "sharing".


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## Ron Mc (Aug 27, 2006)

My, My.
This has turned into on odd thread. Everyone has their preference on where to spend their pen funds to help them make the best pen they can. Honestly I don't see anyone putting anything down, They appear to be making a personal comment that truly does make sense. No matter how good Paul's vise is it can't create the turner. I personally enjoyed using this vise method for years and was extremely successful with it.







I have used one of paul's vises now for about a year and am happy with the results.






I do find that I can center the blanks much faster and find that it is  well worth the investment.[] Personally I would spend the extra money and get on the waiting list for one of Paul's vises instead of buying a different one. Spend the $12.00 at woodcrafts for the two blocks of wood that can be placed in a regular vise and get on the waiting list. I have a friend that purchased the pen vise that woodcrafts sells and they are very disappointed in it. It appears to be rather sloppy. I guess I really need to get on the list again so that I can give him one as a gift.


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## chigdon (Aug 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by cteaglesc_
> <br />"Is there a question here?"
> Why does someone feel they  need to spend $40.00 to drill a hole.



I am happy to answer the question of why <b>I</b> would spend <b>$70</b> to drill a hole.  Pauls vise allows me to drill accurately and almost as importantly to me I can do it over and over very quickly.  I am not retired, like a lot of people here, and I do this for extra money, unlike a lot of people here, and everything that helps to save me time makes me money.  That is the reason <b>I</b> would spend that to drill a hole.

The reason I asked "is there a question" is that is seems you have a system that works for you.  No one is going to doubt it works for you as your work speaks for itself.  I am just not sure why you are on this thread.  It does not appear you are looking to change the way you do things.  Were you just questioning everyone elses spending habits?  If so, now you have my answer.


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## Mudder (Aug 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by DCBluesman_
> <br />....Yes, it was more than other vises, but I have confidence in it and that has made a world of difference......




I can drill a straight hole and I can use all of the things mentioned above to do it. You know what? Since I purchased Paul's vise I don't need to challenge myself to do it. This vise makes it a no brainer so I can concentrate on things I consider to be more important.











> _Originally posted by cozee_
> <br />I can understand the purpose and intent of the vise being up for auction but please just don't make it sound as though there is some miricale vise which will change the direction of penturning all by itself. And that if one doesn't have it they just are not doing things right. If one looks outside of the penturning box, there are vises which will work just as well and or better due to their versatility. Especially since some models have optional jaws to accomadate various shapes, sizes, and variances of materials.





BTW: You can get on the list and buy the vise for less than the price of this auction but there is something else going on here........

It's called a donation for site support.

You already said it's not the right vise for you so why do you continue to knock it?


If you don't want one then don't get one. 




> _Originally posted by DCBluesman_
> <br />Instead of knocking another person's choice of where they spend their money, why not spend more time either 1) in your shop, or 2) admiring the work displayed by others.
> 
> The negativity in portions of this thread goes far beyond "sharing".



Amen.


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## ctEaglesc (Aug 27, 2006)

Whoa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think you  are reading too much into what I posted.
There are a lot of new pen turners on this site.Many who may experience problems with diffrent aspects of the steps in making a pen.
After blank selection and cutting , drilling a blank is usually the first step. If one of these new pen makers is having difficulty in drilling a "plumb" hole without a blow out due to the fact the drill bit is dull, the table on the DP is misaligned, there is too much run out on the quill because of a defective DP then all the money thrown at a pen vice is not going to change the results of his drilling.
I can see the benifit of Pauls vice or any other tool that make a repeatable operation more efficient.
As a matter of fact I spoke with Paul last evening about his vice and we agreed on a lot of issues.
Is a good pen vice necessary? depends on what you define "good" as.
Is the one from Paul or Rocklear necessary? No.
A new turner would benifit far more by investing in other things rather than a $40.00+ vice to drill a plumb hole.
I apologise if you I didn't make myself clear.
As far as why I am on this forum,There may be a some who would like to read why there is not a reason to buy a $40.00 vice to do a most basic operation.These people may turn one or two pens a week.I was just pointing out it was not necessary to always buy an expensive tool for every operation.
One could also question why when the thread started out discussing the Rocklear jig a mention was made of Pauls.


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## jeff (Aug 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by cozee_
> Besides, the donation button on the home page does work I have found out.


It's working for me.  What are you experiencing?


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## cozee (Aug 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by jeff_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...



Uh, that was my point. It has worked for me and hopefully work for others as they purpose to use it. And I hope to be using it again.


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## cozee (Aug 27, 2006)

Thanks Ron MC.  I do forget that what seems simple and easy to me may be something very complex and impossible to others. 

 I will again restate what I have said since it seems apparent that it is getting misunderstood or overlooked. I have in no way said for otthers not to but Paul's vise, or any other vise for that matter. What I have said is that for me persoanlly I would not spend that kind of money on a vise. I have said that donating to the site is a good thing and even pointed out the donation button on the front page for those who choose to donate directly.  I have not said that anyone bidding on the auctions are throwing their money away. 

It would be nice if people would read what is actually written without bias. Scheesch!!! (special? right!!)

And now, I sincerely apologise to anyone whom may have become offended do to a misunderstanding in discussion. And due to the sensitivety of some, in respect, I will learn to tread lightly around here from now on.[B)]


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## jeff (Aug 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by cozee_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry, not enough coffee... I read does NOT.


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## chigdon (Aug 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by cteaglesc_
> <br />Whoa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> I think you  are reading too much into what I posted.
> There are a lot of new pen turners on this site.Many who may experience problems with diffrent aspects of the steps in making a pen.
> ...



Just so you know, I think all of this is a valid point explained the way it is here.  I think that a brand new turner can definately start with a less expensive system although he/she would still do well to get one of Pauls if they wanted.  I think the more proficient turner would see the advantages after owning one of Paul's.  If anyone here does not have one of Paul's and is happy with their system then keep using your system with one caveat -- if you get the chance to try Paul's vise (Atlanta folks are welcome to try mine) give it a shot, you will probably want one.


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## Paul in OKC (Aug 27, 2006)

Wow, it's fun to start something[]. I agree with you, cozee and eagle, that it doesn't take an expensive tool to drill a straight hole. (Mine DOES make it easier, though!) They are just better options, depending on what you want to spend your time on. I can take the same trip down the road in a VW or a Caddilac, how much is the trip is worth, well...
Anyway, thanks for the good words from you guys that have one.
Eagle, as always a pleasure to speak with you. Next time I'll call AFTER the kids are bathed[]


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## scubaman (Aug 28, 2006)

> _Originally posted by kenwc_
> <br />The Lee Valley vice in the link is basically the same design as the Woodcraft and the older PSI model.



Absolutely not.  This vise seem to take some of Paul's ideas and just from the picture, looks better the WC/CSU and older Pennstate models.  In this vise, the front support is bolted down.  Used to be only Paul's had that feature, the new PSI model also has it.  Secondly, notice that the jaws have a gap over the base - you can slide in a replaceable waste block, something to drill into.  On other vises (other than Paul's) you either drill into the base which you'll eventually have to replace, or you have to modify the design.  Or use a narrow strip that fits between the jaws.



> I see nothing in the design that would prevent it from the flex that the two vises suffer from.



Well, look at that front bracket, bolted down.

I have not had one of these in my hands, but it looks like a winner.  Not quite as nice as Paul's vise, but very very nice and at a reasonable price.  Paul's vise has better loading/unloading yet than this one, with the open jaws on the left, but this, with the 1 low guide rod, is also much better than the other designs.  I have a feeling the capacity of Paul's is also better, important if you do bottle stoppers etc. and want to use the same vise.  For pen blanks that would not matter.


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## wood-of-1kind (Sep 9, 2006)

I took a LV pen vise for a test drive this AM. Solidly built for the most part but comes up short on the 'cheesy' turning handle. The worm gear mechanism is rather unique in that you have one gear 'riding' within the other as the unit is contracting. This same gear mechanism does not seem to be too sturdy and IMO will wear out prematurely. Overall conclusion: I'll wait to get one of the Hoffman vices as funds allow. The comments are my own and are not intended to sway the potential purchaser one way or another. As someone so eloquently pointed out, "you get exactly what you paid for".
-Peter-


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## Geo in Winnipeg (Sep 9, 2006)

This is my setup for the vise. I'm very happy with the quality. Note the waste blocks under the blank. The cam clamps sure make things easy.




<br />


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## Cam (Sep 12, 2006)

> _Originally posted by ken69912001_
> <br />I saw today where Lee Valley has a pen vise now. I wonder how good it would be.
> http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=54855&cat=51&ap=1
> Looks like it runs on three guide rods. It only $39.50.



I bought this vice.   It seems ok.  It sure is a lot better than the homemade jig I was using.  Of course this is the only pen vice I have seen live.  I stated to get a little over confident with it this morning.   I can drill a nice clean hole due to the support of the blank which I didn't have before.  I had a piece of ebony I was trying to reclaim as the cap blank for a Gent pen.  Using a CSU 37/64 normal drill bit the blank blew apart pen vice or not.  I forgot to add a little length to the blank. So I've learned that a pen vice dosn't compensate for bad technique.

Scubaman's  observations about this vice are correct.

Cam


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## smoky10 (Sep 12, 2006)

WOW, its been a while since we've had such an energetic discussion here. []


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