# Selling pens



## Irish Pat (Jun 24, 2013)

Is there any money in selling pens.I'm only new to the business.What are the best ways off selling my pens,I have a website but sales are not that easy to get,what am I doing wrong?I sell local but I would like to sell elsewhere.

Handcrafted pens wood, acrylic pens, wooden pens, donegal, ireland


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## RickLong (Jun 24, 2013)

Juried shows with paid admission I find do best.. If the customer is paying to get into a show, generally (IMO) this eliminates the freeloaders.. 

Free shows and outdoor concerts generally do not do very well... IMO Don't get me wrong, there are some awesome outdoor shows but you need to find them by working shows first. Never make your mind up on the productivity of a show until you do it at least two times if not three.

I mostly do indoor shows too.. Reason being Mother Nature can wipe out a show fee with rain... Less security, more freeloaders, etc.. 

For internet sales, you need to work your site everyday... Make updates, add new products, trade links with other sites, and most of all SEO your web site pages. Find key words that fit your products and optimize the pages for your terms. Your Internet marketing question is hard to answer unless you have a clear plan. SEO is a full art on itself.  (SEO = search engine optimization)

If you have something of value on your site besides just selling really helps with the SEs.. explaining techniques, etc.. Have more on your site that "buy this pen". 

Good Luck!

Rick


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## mredburn (Jun 24, 2013)

Loaded question. The answer is yes and no.  How much money do  you want to make and how much  work do you want to do.   The market you choose will determine some of those answers. I dont sell pens but some use Ebay, Etsy and websites. You can sell locally at craft shows or local events but the events that will make you the most will be juried art shows. However thats not without a lot of caveats.  You have to be a top notch seller to make money at those venues. THere are a lot of members here that sell pens, each has their own way of doing it. THere are those that are hobbiest selling pens that just want to cover hard costs and make a buck or two. There are those that track both hard and soft costs and its a business not a hobby.  Then there are all the steps inbetween.  Your Market in Ireland will be different than here in the U.S.


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## Ruby pen turning (Jun 24, 2013)

Alot depends on your location and how good of a salesman you are. I live in Louisiana which is not the richest place to sell pens + I am not a very good salesman. I have sold thousands of dollars worth but I am sure that if I could talk to people and "sell" my pens I would have made many thousands more. We do pretty much only local shows (craft type shows) because the few more expensive and further away ones that we tried, we came very close to breaking even and found it not worth it.


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## Irish Pat (Jun 24, 2013)

Good advice,sorry what do you mean by IMO?


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## mredburn (Jun 24, 2013)

In my opionon


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## Irish Pat (Jun 24, 2013)

Thank you,I've only been in the woodwork business this past 2 years,I did a lot of woodwork when I was at school so I always had a interest.I would like to become someone inbetween,a bit here and there,making a few euro.The main problem we have in Ireland is that it is very small in size and in the market place for crafts.


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## Irish Pat (Jun 24, 2013)

Thanks for your comments.Well I am a good salesman,I have owned a sales business for 18 years but I always wanted to do something else so after I sold the business I now have more time on my hands.


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## RickLong (Jun 24, 2013)

A thread that helped me a lot from this awesome BBS for producing better sales: 

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f22/become-better-salesperson-82942/

Bruce Baker makes a set of three CDs that are definitely worth the couple bucks he charges.. the CD are Sales and merchandizing, Booth Design (important), and Jury process. 

It takes a lot of work to be successful but if you love woodworking pen making can be very rewarding. You are not going to get rich over night (or ever). Nobody is perfect but trying to better your sales skills and booth design after/before every show will pay off in the long run. Stay away from the know it all exhibitors and always have a smile on your face. If a show is slow do not complain about it to the few customers or other exhibitors. Your booth must be a happy and "fun/interesting" place at all times during show hours.

I've been making pens full time for a couple years and only became profitable (covering everything) about a year ago. Almost quite a few times because sales were not steady... My first year full time Aug/Sept was scary with how retail sales slow down. I do a lot of wholesale to retail stores.. Margins are much smaller but it keeps cash flow coming in. 

Good luck!

Rick


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## bellringer 75 (Jun 24, 2013)

I think your problem might be close to home an it is this Handmade Pens by Donegal Pens not sure if you have seen them but there pens are nothing to write home about (pun intend) but they just have so much media buzz around them they take a lot of the sale in Ireland but i might be wrong but in my opinion they are plan and they only make streamlines nothing else


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## Carl Fisher (Jun 24, 2013)

bellringer 75 said:


> I think your problem might be close to home an it is this Handmade Pens by Donegal Pens not sure if you have seen them but there pens are nothing to write home about (pun intend) but they just have so much media buzz around them they take a lot of the sale in Ireland but i might be wrong but in my opinion they are plan and they only make streamlines nothing else



Wow.  Definitely some marketing and PR specialists at work there.


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## bellringer 75 (Jun 24, 2013)

yes lot of it they say that they can make 50 pen in about four hours in one of there interview now i want to know how they do it


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## CharlesJohnson (Jun 24, 2013)

Let me add my thanks, too.  This thread and the refferd one are packed full of great advice and ideas.  I would like to put a name to part (a lot) of it.  I really enjoy   meeting and getting aquianted with people.  And their are a lot of great people out there.  In a booth I approuch it as meeting new friends. Some said ginuan?  And I have some thing I am excited about to introduce them too.  My greeting for those passing is "Have you ever held a nice wood barreled pen in your hand before?".  Showing them one.  Very few walk on by. They will try at least one and look over what I have.  And we will enjoy the visit.  But most will check out my pens good. Some will buy. These last two groups will obviously enjoy their visit even more.  Not all are going to buy.  I certainly don't buy from every thing I look at. But they are now aquianted with what we do.  Some may come back.  Or buy from one of you when I am not available.  And I get to enjoy a new friend, which ever group they are in, for at least a short time.  Maybe I will see them again.  Thanks again for all your help and encouragement.


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## Irish Pat (Jun 24, 2013)

bellringer 75 said:


> yes lot of it they say that they can make 50 pen in about four hours in one of there interview now i want to know how they do it


I don't know what you mean by your last comment.


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## Irish Pat (Jun 24, 2013)

bellringer 75 said:


> yes lot of it they say that they can make 50 pen in about four hours in one of there interview now i want to know how they do it


These lads are only very young,I think there profile works in there favour,fair play I say.We all have to start somewhere.


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## bellringer 75 (Jun 24, 2013)

Irish Pat said:


> bellringer 75 said:
> 
> 
> > yes lot of it they say that they can make 50 pen in about four hours in one of there interview now i want to know how they do it
> ...



they say in a interview the gave to the media and in that they were asked how many pens they can make and they said that they can make about 50 in about 4 hours that is a lot of pens in a sort space of time


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## jfoh (Jun 24, 2013)

I stopped doing shows.  Some were great and some not so much. One show I did well for several years and then four other pen turners all came. Their quality was poor and two had copied my display from last year to a fault. My new display was enough different that others might not have noticed but I sure did. 

The prices they were asking were half of mine which was fair as their quality was less than half. Friction polish just does not cut it and the fit and finish was poor at best. Then one fellow started cutting his prices to sell his stock on the second day. He ended up selling slim lines for $6.00 and larger pens for $10.00.  

I now have several, about a dozen very good, retail outlets selling my pens. I still do large orders and a number of custom orders.  But most sales are by the retail venue. I get less out of it but the volume is decent and the total profit is good. Retail sales are restricted to six pen types in four or five total finish combos. With different woods or acrylics the total number of pens gets into several dozen different combos. I deal with mostly consignment sales these days. If it does not sell the seller has no money tied up and I will take back or exchange for new stock anytime.  I have never lost a pen yet, when selling consignment. You do not just walk up to anyone and give them money. Look at the store, inventory, staff and location to see if it fits into your market. 

Two salons have become good outlets with sales about fifty pens a month. Both are near major regional high schools with very strong local support and anything in the school colors sells well. Bling and color is what sells there. Another location is only high end kits. If it does not sell for $80-150.00 it does not interest them. And they sell a lot of $100-150.00 pens with upgraded refills.

I keep very detail records of what they purchase, how fast it sells and prices both my cost, my selling price and the listed retail prices. Marketing is all about identifying what works, why and when it works and getting rid of that which does not. If a pen does not sell quickly I will take it back into stock and replace it with another one to help in sales. Outlets even a half a mile apart will have vastly different results. Match you items to what they can sell. Find a niche and fill it but do not be afraid to fail. Sometimes pens that I was sure would sell well become house pens of gift for unsuspecting family and sometimes pens made on a whim become staples.


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## kyaggie (Jun 25, 2013)

jfoh said:


> I deal with mostly consignment sales these days.
> 
> Two salons have become good outlets with sales about fifty pens a month.



I have the possibility of selling in a couple of local shops on a consignment basis and I was hoping you would tell me what your arrangement was with the retailer... do the keep 30%, 20%, or what?

Thanks,
Mike


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## jfoh (Jun 26, 2013)

I have tried several different consignment arrangements. Tried 50-50 down to 25-75. In the end I found that 60-40 worked best for everyone. A prime seller might be worth 50-50 if they can get top dollar. But most end up in the 40% profit range. Much less than that and there is no point in them selling for me. They have all the storefront overhead. 

I use to be in retail. If you can not get around 40% margin you will not last long in high end gifts. Explain to the seller what a reasonable selling price is. You are not going to set the world on fire selling cheap pens. Think upscale, with a low retail price of about $80.00 to a high retail of about twice that much. Use only the best kits you can find.  Pick out the best blanks you can find. Do not skimp on anything. If you make the pens as good as you can then they should sell for top dollar. If you pen cost 20-30% to make, 40% seller profit that leaves 30-40% for you. 

I rather the seller make a nice profit so when I walk in they are glad to see me because I make both of us money. You can get them down to a smaller margin but they will soon tire of you and move on to other craftsman. A pen, a bowl, a trinket is all just something to stock to them. If it sells they are happy but if it makes them good money that are even more happy.  All return of problems are handled at once and with no questions asked. I have taken back pens which were abused or at least mistreated. Just the cost of doing business. You can not do this if you are working on too tight a margin.

If you go for the low end business then you will cut corners and not do well in the long run. Educate your customer so they know a good pen from a bad one. I had another turner try to take over one of my best outlets by cutting prices. Sorry for him but his quality was not even close and the seller pointed out his flaws to him because I showed her what to look for. He got huffy and took his wares else where. I was not there but was told the story in full. Point is that had I not shown the seller what to look for they would have gone with the cheaper guy. 

Pick your pen styles very carefully. You do not need 20 different kits in five finishes. Pick four or five in one or two finishes. Sellers have never seen a pen kit catalog and have no understanding just how many kits there are. So keep it simple. That keeps your inventory down and does not tie up too much money.

I wish there was a upscale slimline in the $8-10 kit range. The  $2-4 kits are just too cheap to work in a high retail price point. A good kit, with durable plating, smooth transmission and a decent refill would make for a nice $50.00-60.00 price point pen. I have tried everyones' kit and they all miss the mark in one way or another. A slim kit would make a nice thin pen for the ladies. Men like big pens but ladies not so much. You have to use color or grain to get them interested. But a thin, colorful pen would be a nice addition to my lines. 

Make a check list. Are your pens well shaped? Not too fat or too straight. Does your finish last? Is the pen smooth to operate? Is the fit perfect? Does the final pen look special? Could you improve it in anyway? Does it have a good refill in it?  If wood is the grain something that pops out at you? The better the list, the better the pen and the easier they are to sell. And last of all nothing in 24K gold. Even with a clear epoxy coating the finish last such a short time that it is junk. Up grade, up scale and up price are what you need.


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## Irish Pat (Jun 26, 2013)

Thank you for all your comments,much to look over.


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## kyaggie (Jun 26, 2013)

jfoh said:


> I have tried several different consignment arrangements.



Thank you for all of your fantastic comments!

Mike


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## Seamus (Jun 30, 2013)

bellringer 75 said:


> I think your problem might be close to home an it is this Handmade Pens by Donegal Pens not sure if you have seen them but there pens are nothing to write home about (pun intend) but they just have so much media buzz around them they take a lot of the sale in Ireland but i might be wrong but in my opinion they are plan and they only make streamlines nothing else


 

I think your comments are unfair to these two young chaps, I am a stockist of their pens and I think they actually ARE something to write home about - good quality, good craftsmanship, and they do sell more than the streamline range. Yeah, they've hade huge PR and fair play to this but negativity like this towards two young lads is unhelpful and I think you should in fairness remove your post or at least edit out the unfair bit!!


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## Seamus (Jun 30, 2013)

Irish Pat said:


> bellringer 75 said:
> 
> 
> > yes lot of it they say that they can make 50 pen in about four hours in one of there interview now i want to know how they do it
> ...


 

Hi Pat, I am a stockist of these two young lad's pens - thanks for 'standing up' for them - yeah they seem to have scored PR wise because of their age and undoubtedly a good product - I have asked the other chap to remove his remark that their pens are 'nothing to write home about' - unfair I think? Best of luck with your business - do you sell your pens to retails outlets on a wholesale basis?


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## bellringer 75 (Jun 30, 2013)

Seamus said:


> bellringer 75 said:
> 
> 
> > I think your problem might be close to home an it is this Handmade Pens by Donegal Pens not sure if you have seen them but there pens are nothing to write home about (pun intend) but they just have so much media buzz around them they take a lot of the sale in Ireland but i might be wrong but in my opinion they are plan and they only make streamlines nothing else
> ...



I can have my opinion if i want and that is my opinion


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## Seamus (Jun 30, 2013)

bellringer 75 said:


> Seamus said:
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> > bellringer 75 said:
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Oh, by all means, everyone is entitled to their opinion and that is what these forums are about, but no need - in my opinion - to use it to criticise anyone!


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## bellringer 75 (Jun 30, 2013)

Seamus said:


> bellringer 75 said:
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> > Seamus said:
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I am not using it to criticise just say what i think of there work


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## Seamus (Jun 30, 2013)

bellringer 75 said:


> Seamus said:
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> > bellringer 75 said:
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Have you experienced their work? or are you just judging by their website? I have had their work in my hands often an can't at all fault it. If you have an issue with them then the best thing to do would be contact them directly rather than 'having a go' at them on a public forum, that from what I can see, they are not registered with.


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