# Eagle



## brokenbit (Jan 16, 2007)

Where is Eagle


Bernie


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## ed4copies (Jan 16, 2007)

He has been excommunicated.


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## DCBluesman (Jan 16, 2007)

Of course, it is likely that a Mod will delete this thread so not many will see the question.


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## jjenk02 (Jan 16, 2007)

I saw it.


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## NavyDiver (Jan 16, 2007)

Sorry to see that.  He was very generous with me and the boys.


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## dfurlano (Jan 16, 2007)

I missed it, hopefully he'll be back.


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## DCBluesman (Jan 16, 2007)

Of course, a few emails to the site admin couln't hurt.


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## Pikebite (Jan 16, 2007)

That seemed to happen very quickly and quietly.


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## wood-of-1kind (Jan 16, 2007)

Hope that he is properly reinstated after he does his 'time'. What is that old saying... "To err is human but to forgive is divine". Lord Jeff how about it?

-Peter-[]


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## wdcav1952 (Jan 16, 2007)

I have to agree with you, Peter.  I don't know what the "time out" is about, but I hope it is a finite excommunication (being Protestant, I'm not sure what those are, think it has something to do with Linda Blair and split pea soup.) and that Eagle will be back in flight before too long.


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## gerryr (Jan 16, 2007)

I think it stinks.  If someone is accused falsely and tries to defend themselves, they should not be banned.  Ban the jerk who made the accusation, but the not accused.  
I want him back.


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## wudnhed (Jan 16, 2007)

We want Eagle - We want Eagle.......pounding my wudnhed on the table!!!!!!!!


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## jjenk02 (Jan 16, 2007)

Let Eagle come back and play.......


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## Ron in Drums PA (Jan 16, 2007)

IMVHO

It's time to let him back on.


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## DaveO (Jan 16, 2007)

Another Eagle fan, who has noticed that it has been too quiet around here. Bring Eagle back.
Dave[]


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## Dario (Jan 16, 2007)

I think Eagle behaved well since his come back...if he did something bad, I surely missed it.

I emailed him a few times and he is not too optimistic about getting re-instated.  I sure wish he is mistaken.  We don't see eye to eye a lot of times and I can't even call him friend yet but I do respect him and I believe IAP will benefit from him as a penturner and as a man.


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## NCWoodworker (Jan 16, 2007)

What is this about!?!?  As a newer member, Eagle has been a HUGE influence to me and has helped me quite a bit. He even called me one night to offer some advice/direction.  In any case, I expect that his positive contributions outweigh his offence.  Typically, I would expect when a active participant has been 'banned' or whatever, it is because of his intollerence of newer members and their neophyte questions.  In all of the posts that I have read by Eagle in the past 3 mos or so, all I have seen is him being helpful (or clarifying a post that has been misunderstood) and actually encouraging others.  In all honesty, I have read the posts that put him down and have been watching...waiting to see this side of Eagle that people have hinted at.  I have not seen it in the past couple months that I have been a member, nor in the months prior that I was a 'lurker' 

Is Eagle the Terrel Owens of IAP???  

And to think, I simply assumed that he was only taking a break after finishing his latest creation...kind of like Santa after Christmas ;-)

Chris


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## Dario (Jan 16, 2007)

Chris,

You are correct.

These past months...I almost cannot believe it is Eagle posting. He is so mild, I would expect him to be bursting any moment for holding back LOL.  Sure, there were baits and he avoided them well.

As I said, I didn't even notice he did something bad lately which makes me curious what really happened.  I really wish, the admin and moderators would just lock a thread and not delete it.


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## jjenk02 (Jan 16, 2007)

Dario, I would like to know what happened also, Eagle help me numerous times when I had questions. I don't think he ever heard a stupid question, if you ask he gave you an honest answer and any help you needed. He never "talked down" to us newbies.

Lets bring him back, we all miss him.


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## wdcav1952 (Jan 16, 2007)

OK, comparing Eagle to TO is an insult!  To Eagle, not to TO! [][][]


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## alamocdc (Jan 16, 2007)

> _Originally posted by wdcav1952_
> <br />OK, comparing Eagle to TO is an insult!  To Eagle, not to TO! [][][]


You got that right, Cav!

I've never seen Eagle drop a blank.[}][]


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## dfurlano (Jan 16, 2007)

> _Originally posted by alamocdc_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...



Ha- never seen Eagle drop a blank! 

But doesn't every forum have a TO!  Nothing like a little spice to keep things interesting.


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## jjenk02 (Jan 16, 2007)

With some help from a friend I finally figured out which thread it was that got Eagle in trouble. It was the one were cozee was the instigator, Eagle was just defending himself, so both were canned. I don't think it is fair!!!!!


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## Randy_ (Jan 16, 2007)

As good as he was, TO was traded by San Francisco and Philadelphia and it's even money he won't be with the Cowboys next year.....something to think about??[^]


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## DCBluesman (Jan 16, 2007)

> _Originally posted by Randy__
> <br />something to think about??[^]



You're right, Randy.  After T.O. left San Francisco in 1983, they finished 2-14 without him in 2004 while his new team, the Eagles, went 15-3 before losing to New England in the Super Bowl. (T.O. had 9 catches for 122 yds in the Superbowl and 14 TD's that year.)  And when Philadelphia set him out in 2005, they finished the season 6-10, losing 7 of the 9 games they played without him.


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## Randy_ (Jan 16, 2007)

Exactly the point, Lou.  It was a risk those teams were willing to take??  No one ever said he wasn't a good football player......just that he had other issues.


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## MesquiteMan (Jan 16, 2007)

I guess you guys missed the thread that got Eagle and Cozee banned.  There was some bickering going back and forth between Eagle an Cozee and then Jeff, the OWNER of this site, posted a message saying "Regardless of whether or not you agree or disagree with me that your posts are inappropriate, more of the same is going to get you banned. Take my word on that." Less than 15 minutes later, Eagle posted again with a message directed at Cozee that was quite a bit less than friendly.  Then, 6 hours later, Cozee responded, adding more fuel to the fire.


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## DCBluesman (Jan 17, 2007)

> _Originally posted by MesquiteMan_
> <br />I guess you guys missed the thread that got Eagle and Cozee banned.  There was some bickering going back and forth between Eagle an Cozee and then Jeff, the OWNER of this site, posted a message saying "Regardless of whether or not you agree or disagree with me that your posts are inappropriate, more of the same is going to get you banned. Take my word on that." Less than 15 minutes later, Eagle posted again with a message directed at Cozee that was quite a bit less than friendly.  Then, 6 hours later, Cozee responded, adding more fuel to the fire.



That, Curtis, is a GROSS misrepresentation of the facts, particularly your quote.  There was a preceding part of the post which is CRITICAL to the understanding.  Jeff's post indicated that (paraphrase begins here) if you think I'm talkng to you then I am. (end of paraphrase)  Eagle did not believe Jeff's post was addressed to him.  After all, who posted the "picture" of Big Bird flipping us off with a reference to it being Eagle?

Cozee made a statement that half of Eagle's posts were (again, paraphrasing) mean spirited (end of paraphrase).  Eagle's response was to ask Cozee for proof.  Now you can term this as you will, but don't for one minute think that the rest of us believe that is (paraphrasing Jeff) inappropriate (end of paraphrase).  I will tell you that if someone on the forum makes such a statement about any one of us, I hope that the recipient of such a comment will demand the same proof.  If it's me they will get an EARFUL! As for banning someone for asking for proof of such an accusation, who the heck thinks THAT is some sort of "bannable" offense?  

Free Eagle.  No one died.


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## clewless (Jan 17, 2007)

...and if you guys keep up the bickering, this thread is going to degenerate into the exact same problem.[B)]

It's Jeff's site, he makes and enforces the rules.

They'll be back after they've cooled off...so why can't the rest of you let it die...sometimes you're like friggin' gnats.[]


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## GaryMGg (Jan 17, 2007)

Be fewer gnats around here if there was an Eagle to swallow 'em up.

[]


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## melogic (Jan 17, 2007)

The bottom line is, Eagle has been banned from this site and that is the end of this story!


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## jeff (Jan 17, 2007)

I really believe that the issue between Eagle and me should remain between us and not be up for public discussion. However, since he's orchestrating this discussion via a few friends, I'm going to assume that he won't mind me making this post.

When I readmitted Eagle to the forum we agreed on some ground rules for his behavior. I told him that there were people on this site who wanted him gone and would troll, bait, and annoy him until he did something to get ejected. My very specific instruction to him was that when he felt challenged by someone and was being drawn into an argument, he was to notify me and I'd take care of it by dealing with the trolls. This was our agreement, plain and simple. 

Cozee trolled Eagle in the topic with the big bird pictures, and rather than honor our agreement, Eagle decided to deal with Cozee on his own. In an email after I locked his account, Eagle complained that I was making him "run to Jeff" rather than letting him make Cozee justify his remarks. 

Lou points out that it's human nature to want to defend against what you feel are false statements or accusations. Nobody wants to run to the principal. But that was the agreement between Eagle and I. Had he not wanted to abide by it, he should not have agreed to. 

Yes, our agreement was that he was to let me deal with people who trolled him. I asked him to do that because I felt it was the only way to avoid confrontations between him and those who don't want him around. Eagle does not exactly have a reputation for calm discussion when he's put on the spot. Most of us calmly and logically deal with such things, and he does not. If he had followed my instructions as agreed, Cozee would have gotten the boot instead of both of them.

Let me further say that even though I had promised to eject him permanently if he broke our agreement, I did not intend that after the Big Bird incident. I had given him umpteen breaks already, I figured I'd let him cool off for a while, let him stew over it, then we'd see about getting him back in. 

I received a number of emails from him after the incident. He referred to me as "having no credibility", "making boneheaded decisions", "not having the guts" to deal with him, and "not being able to admit a mistake." I don't have the inclination to deal with someone who has zero respect for other people. 

I went against the advice of many people when I readmitted Eagle. I realize that people make mistakes, and I respected his approach to me requesting reasmission. Although I promised that I'd ban him at the first sign of trouble, and he understood that, instead I warned him to watch his step on at least six occasions. I bent over backwards to keep him around. 

Regarding my opening comment about this entire discussion. It's a sham. Unless I am grossly misinformed, Bernie (brokenbit) and Eagle are friends and talk frequently. I believe that Bernie knows exactly where Eagle is, and made his "where is Eagle" post, probably at the request of Eagle, just to stir up this type of discussion. 

One final thing... On a lot of other discussion forums, this kind of topic would not get past the first post. Complaints about discipline are not generally tolerated. I'm letting it run because reading the followups I get the feeling that you all think I'm dealing with Eagle unfairly and I think that the opposite is true. To the best of my ability, I try to be fair and interpret what are obviously subjective the rules as fairly as I can. When I make mistakes it's usually on the side of tolerance. In this case, my tolerance ran out.


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## rtjw (Jan 17, 2007)

Thanks for all you do Jeff![]


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## dfurlano (Jan 17, 2007)

It's obvious you know the players Jeff so whatever your decision is fine by me.


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## wudnhed (Jan 17, 2007)

Jeff, didn't realize all that had gone on which is common being part of such a large group.  Some personalities just don't click and that's too bad.  I AM glad you cleared this up for me, my wudnhed was getting splintered from all that pounding on the table[]  Sure glad you're here Jeff!!!!!!!!


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## DCBluesman (Jan 17, 2007)

<b>An open response to Jeff </b>(since I was the only member singled out)



> I really believe that the issue between Eagle and me should remain between us and not be up for public discussion. However, since he's orchestrating this discussion via a few friends, I'm going to assume that he won't mind me making this post.



Actually, Jeff, Eagle has specifically asked MANY of us not to write to you nor to post on the forum about the incident.



> When I readmitted Eagle to the forum we agreed on some ground rules for his behavior. I told him that there were people on this site who wanted him gone and would troll, bait, and annoy him until he did something to get ejected. My very specific instruction to him was that when he felt challenged by someone and was being drawn into an argument, he was to notify me and I'd take care of it by dealing with the trolls. This was our agreement, plain and simple.



I have to respectfully disagree with you.  The thread was not "baiting".  It was an assault on his character.  Along with your advisors, you chose to allow it to continue.  The failure to offer any form of protection while the "sword of Damocles" swung over his head was a miserable failing which caused a valuable member of the site to be dismissed.  Not only has he been dismissed from posting, but you have also taken away his right to even VIEW the forum...a right you give to any OTHER member of the public.



> Cozee trolled Eagle in the topic with the big bird pictures, and rather than honor our agreement, Eagle decided to deal with Cozee on his own. In an email after I locked his account, Eagle complained that I was making him "run to Jeff" rather than letting him make Cozee justify his remarks.



Jeff, you pulled the thread (and hid it even from the archives) so I cannot quote it, but Cozee did not "troll"  It was an outright attack.  If you did not see the post for the several days it was up there, surely your moderators did.  Someone could have and should have taken action since you prohibited Eagle from even DEFENDING himself.  By the way, your hiding the thread reminds me of a quote from you. "Honestly, I want to know because there is a flaw in the logic of ignoring users. Not a flaw in the code, but a flaw in the psychology of "if I don't see it, it isn't there"   That thread is STILL here in many of our collective memories.



> Lou points out that it's human nature to want to defend against what you feel are false statements or accusations. Nobody wants to run to the principal. But that was the agreement between Eagle and I. Had he not wanted to abide by it, he should not have agreed to.
> 
> Yes, our agreement was that he was to let me deal with people who trolled him. I asked him to do that because I felt it was the only way to avoid confrontations between him and those who don't want him around. Eagle does not exactly have a reputation for calm discussion when he's put on the spot. Most of us calmly and logically deal with such things, and he does not. If he had followed my instructions as agreed, Cozee would have gotten the boot instead of both of them.
> 
> Let me further say that even though I had promised to eject him permanently if he broke our agreement, I did not intend that after the Big Bird incident. I had given him umpteen breaks already, I figured I'd let him cool off for a while, let him stew over it, then we'd see about getting him back in.



If you are going to tie someone's hands, you have a heightened requirement to make sure they are not assaulted while unable to defend themselves.  "The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy."



> I received a number of emails from him after the incident. He referred to me as "having no credibility", "making boneheaded decisions", "not having the guts" to deal with him, and "not being able to admit a mistake." I don't have the inclination to deal with someone who has zero respect for other people.



Sorry, but injustice brings out intolerance.  In both you and Eagle.  I've been on the other side of this with you, Jeff.



> I went against the advice of many people when I readmitted Eagle. I realize that people make mistakes, and I respected his approach to me requesting reasmission. Although I promised that I'd ban him at the first sign of trouble, and he understood that, instead I warned him to watch his step on at least six occasions. I bent over backwards to keep him around.



Bent over backwards while holding a sword over his head...by watching his every move...by hanging on to each minor scuffle?  As for the "many", you can read IN THIS THREAD that there are more than a few who are more interested in having him ADD to the value of this forum than are annoyed by his style.  Of course, there will always be the CJC to take shots whenever and wherever as long as it's under cover of darkness.



> Regarding my opening comment about this entire discussion. It's a sham. Unless I am grossly misinformed, Bernie (brokenbit) and Eagle are friends and talk frequently. I believe that Bernie knows exactly where Eagle is, and made his "where is Eagle" post, probably at the request of Eagle, just to stir up this type of discussion.



Can you substantiate this accusation or is this another self-evident truth?



> One final thing... On a lot of other discussion forums, this kind of topic would not get past the first post. Complaints about discipline are not generally tolerated. I'm letting it run because reading the followups I get the feeling that you all think I'm dealing with Eagle unfairly and I think that the opposite is true. To the best of my ability, I try to be fair and interpret what are obviously subjective the rules as fairly as I can. When I make mistakes it's usually on the side of tolerance. In this case, my tolerance ran out.



Your tolerance may have run out, but the members of this forum have been cheated by this decision.  

As has been pointed out, you (technically) "own" the site.  I get no vote, nor do any of the rest of us.  But what constitutes ownership?  You and Scott paid the freight for this forum in the first year.  A few more chipped in during year two.  This past year, several THOUSAND dollars of the direct expenses were paid for by members.  In your own site documents you acknowledge that you are the "caretaker" of the site.  As much as anyone on this site, I know how much time you have and continue to donate in the technical management and day-to-day operations, but do not forget that the REAL owners of the site are the members and contributors.  

Without us, there is no site.  You don't have to agree with us.  You don't have to like us.  You don't even have to tolerate us.  In the end, if enough decisions are made, decisions that lessen the value of the forum, you will be preaching to yourself.

As to those of you who believe, as I do, that Eagle adds more than he detracts, please keep in mind that "In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."  

In this world, silence is assumed agreement.  Weigh in on controversial subjects.  "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter."


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## TellicoTurning (Jan 17, 2007)

I haven't been on this site long enought to know all of the details in this argument... nor am I that interested in what started it or how it finished... I personally never took any offense to anything that has been said on the site.  I enjoy reading what the membership has to say about pen turning and all its components.  I also enjoy reading some of the interaction between memebers.. I felt that a number of members were personal friends and some of the banter was just that banter.. if a thread deteriated into something other than banter, I passed and went to the next thread.  
My dear old mother always said, "if you open a can of worms, expect to find worms"

That said, I personally will miss both Eagle and Cozee on the site... I felt they contributed significantly to the information I was gleanning from the threads.


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## gerryr (Jan 17, 2007)

Well stated Lou.


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## pete00 (Jan 17, 2007)

> _Originally posted by ozmandus_
> <br />I haven't been on this site long enought to know all of the details in this argument... nor am I that interested in what started it or how it finished... I personally never took any offense to anything that has been said on the site.  I enjoy reading what the membership has to say about pen turning and all its components.  I also enjoy reading some of the interaction between memebers.. I felt that a number of members were personal friends and some of the banter was just that banter.. if a thread deteriated into something other than banter, I passed and went to the next thread.
> My dear old mother always said, "if you open a can of worms, expect to find worms"
> 
> That said, I personally will miss both Eagle and Cozee on the site... I felt they contributed significantly to the information I was gleanning from the threads.




What Chuck said......


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## Skye (Jan 17, 2007)

> _Originally posted by DCBluesman_
> As has been pointed out, you (technically) "own" the site.  I get no vote, nor do any of the rest of us.  But what constitutes ownership?  You and Scott paid the freight for this forum in the first year.  A few more chipped in during year two.  This past year, several THOUSAND dollars of the direct expenses were paid for by members.  In your own site documents you acknowledge that you are the "caretaker" of the site.  As much as anyone on this site, I know how much time you have and continue to donate in the technical management and day-to-day operations, but do not forget that the REAL owners of the site are the members and contributors.



In my opinion; Those were donations, not buying shares. Donating money allows you no special pull here. If people want to <b>donate</b>, then that's what they do. If you or anyone else donated money because they wanted to 'own' this site or give you one iota of leadership, their money was poorly spent.



> Actually, Jeff, Eagle has specifically asked MANY of us not to write to you nor to post on the forum about the incident.



Then respect him and stop doing it. If you want him to get back in here, this isnâ€™t the way to do it. Continually dragging the issue through the mud isnâ€™t helping.



> "In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."



Heâ€™s told me point blank not to stick up for him, so I donâ€™t. See previous quote.


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## ed4copies (Jan 17, 2007)

Jeff already knows my opinions, I have expressed them in private with him.

I would like to THANK Jeff for allowing this thread to continue.  It's time to stop dancing around the issue and determine does Eagle make the site better (as I believe) or worse (as many e-mails have led Jeff to believe).

As long as this thread remains civil in it's tone, perhaps Jeff will be allowed to hear the thoughts of the MANY who are in the membership, along with the thoughts he has heard from the FEW who write e-mails (myself included!)

PLEASE KEEP COMMENTING ON THE TOPIC!!


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## ed4copies (Jan 17, 2007)

Oh, I have not talked with Eagle at all this week, so if this thread is orchestrated, I was not called to be in the symphony.  As I have said before, I express MY opinion, and only MY opinion.


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## twoofakind (Jan 17, 2007)

I have never talked to Eagle on the phone, but have had his responses to a few of my posts and never took offense to any of them. His attitude may have turned a few people off, but that is what made him "Eagle". Through posts his guidance helped a lot of us newer turners develope their style. I like the fact that he would not show you exactly how to do it, but guide you along the steps and let you figure it out for yourself. As for Jeff's decision, it is his site. When we joined we agreed to abide by his rules and regulations. If he and Eagle had an agreement then he had no choice but to take action. You may not have to agree with him, but we need to see both sides of this. Jeff, thanks for letting this discussion continue. That being said, I do think that I personally benefited from his being here.
Andy


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## Turnitall (Jan 17, 2007)

I don't often post on the site... I am more of a lurker... 
I can only say that since this is Jeff's site and he makes the rules, we should abide by them... 
If some people don't want to abide by the rules that Jeff sets down maybe it is time for them to start their own forum as was done by another member, if memory serves me correctly.
I could care less what happened between Cozee and Eagle.. that is between them... But if what transpired between Eagle and Jeff is accurate, and I have no reason to doubt Jeff, then Jeff did what he felt was correct for the forum that he owns and runs.


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## Ron in Drums PA (Jan 17, 2007)

I don't know if Eagle considers me a friend [] Some of the newer folks missed some good battles between the two of us. 

I can say that he didn't say a thing to me about ant type of orchestrating.

I will say this, his behavior on this site over the last few months have been excellent and I feel he deserves another chance.

IMO, Allot of problems can be avoided if the situations are handled quicker, like BEFORE they are out of control.


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## jeff (Jan 17, 2007)

A quick response to Lou's post...

I believe that you're saying that Cozee's big bird post was so egregious that the average person would call it a clear cut "assault" and "attack". If that's the case, why didn't I get an email from Eagle (or you, or anyone else who is examining this in hindsight) immediately requesting I do something about it? I made it crystal clear to Eagle that he simply needed to let me know when someone was after him (call it attack, assault, trolling, baiting, whatever you wish...) and I'd deal with it. 

Regarding the issue of financial support... Anyone who feels that they've made a mistake by financially supporting this site due to this issue or any other can simply send me an email and <b>I will gladly refund every penny you have ever donated.</b> Better yet, post that request here so I can't be accused of hiding those requests and creating a false sense of satisfaction.


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## Draken (Jan 17, 2007)

I did not see the thread in question (that I can recall), nor do I know eagle in real life.  I do know he is a talented person who brings a lot to the forum, and I've enjoyed the "new" eagle much more so than the "old" eagle and would like to see eagle return.

If the thread was as bad as some are suggesting, than perhaps the moderators should have locked it before it got to the point of banning someone.  Isn't this the reason we have moderators?

My humble opinion,
Draken


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## Blind_Squirrel (Jan 17, 2007)

First, I would like to thank Jeff for creating and maintaining a wonderful resource for pen makers the world over.  

Iâ€™m a cut-to-the-chase type of guy.  Itâ€™s Jeffâ€™s site; if people donâ€™t like the way he runs it then they are free to move on.  



> _Originally posted by DCBluesman_
> Your tolerance may have run out, but the members of this forum have been cheated by this decision.


Lou, I like you a lot and respect your pen making abilities.  That being said, please speak for yourself and not the collective body.  I think Eagle is a talented pen crafter; he also has an abrasive personality.  While I miss seeing his contributions to the art of pen making I do not miss the controversy that swirls around him.



> _Originally posted by Ron in Drums PA_
> I will say this, his behavior on this site over the last few months have been excellent



Ron, if that is an example of excellent behavior I would hate to see bad behavior.  This statement makes me support Jeff all the more.

Bottom line, In general I have nothing for or against Eagle or Cozee.  If they want to bicker amongst themselves they should keep it private, not spread it out in the public forums.

Jeff, my thanks again for such a wonderful resource.


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## olsenla (Jan 17, 2007)

I've been mostly a lurker here since 2004.  For the most part I really enjoy this site.  I can imagine that the actions needed to keep this site the great resource and place to visit that it is are not always easy, and sometimes not popular.  I just wanted to post on this topic to let Jeff know that I fully support the decisions he has made.  I look forward to continually learning from this forum in the future.

Respectfully,
Larry


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## jeff (Jan 17, 2007)

> _Originally posted by Ron in Drums PA_
> <br />IMO, Allot of problems can be avoided if the situations are handled quicker, like BEFORE they are out of control.


You must be joking. Every single time we've tried to head something off, there is immediate uproar about censorship, or not letting people have their say. 

Look at Lou's post above: 


> Of course, it is likely that a Mod will delete this thread so not many will see the question.



I don't think many people realize how difficult it is to satisfy a large   group of people which is highly polarized by an issue.


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## ed4copies (Jan 17, 2007)

> _Originally posted by Draken_
> <br />I did not see the thread in question (that I can recall), nor do I know eagle in real life.  I do know he is a talented person who brings a lot to the forum, and I've enjoyed the "new" eagle much more so than the "old" eagle and would like to see eagle return.
> My humble opinion,
> Draken



I'm sure Eagle would say, "Thank-you for noticing the difference!"  He was making an effort to stay out of skirmishes.


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## Skye (Jan 17, 2007)

Modding sucks. Plain and simple. I've done it at a few forums and it's an impossible and thankless job.


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## wood-of-1kind (Jan 17, 2007)

Can I suggest that a poll be set-up and allowing participants the opportunity to vote whether Eagle/Cozee can return to IAP? Just a suggestion but at least 'we' will know where we stand on this issue.

-Peter-


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## dfurlano (Jan 17, 2007)

Skye is correct, no one knows what it is like until your in a situation like Jeff has with Eagle.  You can debate it all you want but I would say with confidence that it would be very difficult to handle this situation any better then Jeff has.  And in most cases it would have been handled worse.


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## Skye (Jan 17, 2007)

> _Originally posted by wood-of-1kind_
> <br />Can I suggest that a poll be set-up and allowing participants the opportunity to vote whether Eagle/Cozee can return to IAP? Just a suggestion but at least 'we' will know where we stand on this issue.
> 
> -Peter-



I would vote "yes" myself, but I dont know if it's a matter for a poll.

I know you dont wave a steak infront of a bear and then act suprised when he bites your hand off. Regardless, I think it has to be Jeff's decision. It's not a mob rule here, it's not a democracy. 

On the other hand, if we're allowed to vote someone in via Jeff's choice, I vote we also are allowed to vote people out. A little Survivor action. [}]


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## rtjw (Jan 17, 2007)

I will not get into this post but to say I kow how Jeff feels. Apparently someone is sending out nasty grams today. He has made several long posts on this thread. I have received several that have been forwarded to me from people that have posted on this thread. When someone doesnt get their way, Jeff suffers. Sad to see it.


----------



## wudnhed (Jan 17, 2007)

In my most respectful opinion (respectful not respected[]) I think we are getting good insight to where some stand on this issue already and that's a good thing.  I don't know if a poll would accomplish anything and may even make our Admin. feel undermined especially no matter how we all feel only Jeff, Cozee and Eagle really know what went on publicly or privately.  Jeff this is your site so I will try my best to abide by your rules.  I look at my first pen and I look at my last pen and the improvement is due to this site.  Thanks!


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## Jerryconn (Jan 17, 2007)

I am not trying to throw fuel on this thread,  but feel compelled to comment.  I enjoy reading Eagle's posts on pen-making, I always learn something and I will miss gaining form his knowledge and experience. I also look forward to reading posts regarding pen-making from Lou and several others. But fail to see the need for continued "discussion" on this topic. Jeff has made his decision,  Cozee and Eagle have been ostracized.  The thing to keep in mind is Jeff indicated is may not be permanent.  I read into his post that once they can put whatever happened behind them and participate according to the rules, they may be allowed to return. I know several who posted are lobbying for Eagle.  But I didn't read anywhere in Jeff's post that he was asking for our opinions. I prefer using the bandwidth for something about pen-making. Anyone have a dead horse to put up on this thread?


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## Penmonkey (Jan 17, 2007)

<b>No matter where we stand (I don't care if Eagle never gets unblocked) we need to respect each other _and_ Jeff. </b>


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## ed4copies (Jan 17, 2007)

Another observation:

This thread has gotten more "traffic" in two days than any other thread throughout the last week....... Obviously, the "membership" is interested.

This IS Jeff's site and I have said to him often, it is HIS football.  

I also own a business as do many others.  IF we only listen to those whom we choose to have close to us, we may never know the opinions of the "whole body".  

Jeff will evaluate this discussion as HE wishes, as is his right.   BUT, if one member is TOLD NOT to defend himself, will YOU be next????  That is MY concern.[]


----------



## Tanner (Jan 17, 2007)

> _Originally posted by olsenla_
> <br />I've been mostly a lurker here since 2004.  For the most part I really enjoy this site.  I can imagine that the actions needed to keep this site the great resource and place to visit that it is are not always easy, and sometimes not popular.  I just wanted to post on this topic to let Jeff know that I fully support the decisions he has made.  I look forward to continually learning from this forum in the future.
> 
> Respectfully,
> Larry



I know my opinion does not mean much as new as I am, however I share in Larry's opinion.

I have learned so much from this site.  So many people have helped me in so many ways.  If it was not for Jeff, I would not have learned anything.  I have looked at other sites and I have to tell you this is by far the best.  Whatever Jeff says...goes.  I saw the post with big bird and just laughed.  I also saw the response.  I thought wow, eagle got baited into that one.  Then I see that Jeff and eagle had an agreement about not getting baited into something.  Ah...duh, an agreement is an agreement, a promise is a promise.  Abide by it, or move on.

For me, it's as easy as this:
Jeff's site, Jeff's rules, Jeff's decision.


----------



## cd18524 (Jan 17, 2007)

This thread seems that is being kept alive so everyone can voice their opinions.  I will follow suit and voice mine, but I do it knowing that it is just that, an opinion.  The ultimate decision belongs to Jeff.  The community here makes this site great, but without Jeff, there would be no site to be great.  

In regards to Eagle.  I don't think I ever learned anything directly from him, but he did inspire me on many occassions.  This has led to improvements in my penturning.  He has also provided entertainment for me on many occassions.  Should he be allowed to return?  I don't know.  My prediction;  Jeff will allow Eagle and Cozee to return, and then within 6 months have to kick them off again, and then we can do this again...............

Chris


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## Skye (Jan 17, 2007)

> _Originally posted by rtjw_
> Apparently someone is sending out nasty grams today.



You got a love letter in your mailbox too? I thought I was the only one. I feel so dirty now... [V]

(No, not from Eagle, point of clarification.)


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## oldsmokey (Jan 17, 2007)

Jeff has made this forum one of the best, if not the best penturning forum on the web.  He has done it with good management skills.  His terms and conditions of membership are fair for the majority of the members.  
I have no idea what led to eagles original banishment.  When Jeff and eagle agreed to the terms of his reinstatement as a member, it was eagles responsiblity to obay the terms.  When eagle violated the terms Jeff was left with no choice but to ban eagle.
Eagle is an artist with tremendous creative skills.  I know I will miss his imput on this site.
I hope after a cooling off period Jeff and eagle can both get together and resolve the issue.  
I would love to see eagle fly again on this site, but he must respect Jeff's terms.


----------



## ed4copies (Jan 17, 2007)

For the record, I have neither received nor sent any e-mails to members.

Clarification: Today, and/or regarding this issue.
I have sent numerous people e-mails over the past several months in response to their questions and requests.  And, will continue to do so.


----------



## ilikewood (Jan 17, 2007)

I like Lou, I like Jeff, I like Eagle, I like Ed, I like Johnny, I like everyone in this group (even DocStram!!).  

Sometimes the best thing is to just listen and not say anything.  Personal opinion tends to ruin many a good relationship.

Anyone else with me?


----------



## Blind_Squirrel (Jan 17, 2007)

> _Originally posted by ed4copies_
> <br />Another observation:
> 
> if one member is TOLD NOT to defend himself, will YOU be next????  That is MY concern.[]



My take on that is if you don't get yourself into that position in the first place you will have nothing to worry about. []


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## terrymiller (Jan 17, 2007)

I really think this is a decision that has to be made by Jeff and his mods only without bantering from the peanut gallery.  While there are some talented turners here I don't care for the attitude that goes along with them. This site contains a lot of good information but it is unfortunate that there is a select few members that have probably ran off quite a few active members along the way.  

Once again this is a decision that has to be made by Jeff and his mods whether the benefits out weigh the stupid stuff.


----------



## Skye (Jan 17, 2007)

> _Originally posted by ilikewood_
> <br />I like Lou, I like Jeff, I like Eagle, I like Ed, I like Johnny, I like everyone in this group (even DocStram!!).
> 
> Sometimes the best thing is to just listen and not say anything.  Personal opinion tends to ruin many a good relationship.
> ...



I'm not with you. If a person is in a friendly relationship with you, opinions donâ€™t get in the way. For example Eagle has told me his opinions of things I do he doesnâ€™t agree with, but at the end of that conversation it's the end of it. Now, you get someone who wants to _look_ like he's your friend, then you disagree, then they go on a tirade, that person was never in a real 'relationship' with you. 

A relationship that cannot withstand you stating your opinion isnâ€™t worth having.

No Ed, Iâ€™m not pointing a finger anywhere near you with the email comment, lol


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## bnoles (Jan 17, 2007)

Hey y'all.......

There's a Birthday Bash going on a few levels up.  

Come have some cake and ice cream.

Ice cream makes everyone happy. []


----------



## whatwoodido (Jan 17, 2007)

While I agree with some of Lou's comments, I also think that we all need to recognize that this is Jeff's Site, his rules (its good to be the king), and as such all that is required is that Jeff feel justified in taking an action.  While I am not encouraging people to leave, there is no requirement to be a part of this community.  If anyone is truly dissatisfied with Jeff administration of the site they can leave for a day, week, month, year or forever.  

One of my pet peeves with this group is that a new member can be roasted over an open fire for making a misstatement even after they tried to apologize, but an old timer is almost always excused.  

Many of you standing up for Eagle have poured gasoline on the fire when a new member is under attack, <b>I do not ever recall seeing Lou do this</b>.  

In each case that I have stood up for someone and encouraged people to recognize that the offender has tried to apologize, I have gotten numerous e-mails from people calling me all kinds of things including sissy, communist, socialist, liberal, pagan, anti-Christian (this was my favorite as I was requesting tolerance), and a herd of others.  For each 5 pieces of hate mail (all hate mail I have received has been from old timers of the group), I get 1 or 2 e-mails from a new member thanking me for standing up for someone that made an obviously unintended error.



> _Originally posted by DCBluesman_
> <br /><b>An open response to Jeff </b>(since I was the only member singled out)
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## DocStram (Jan 17, 2007)

> _Originally posted by ilikewood_
> <br />I like Lou, I like Jeff, I like Eagle, I like Ed, I like Johnny, I like everyone in this group (even DocStram!!).
> 
> Sometimes the best thing is to just listen and not say anything.  Personal opinion tends to ruin many a good relationship.
> ...


We all need to be very careful here ... we're treading on thin ice .... and we're coming close to losing some good friends and hurting some darn good people.  We all need to do our part to maintain the harmonic balance of IAP.   

I would normally have a lot to say, but I'm heading to the shop. It's easier turning pens than opinions. 

I reckon I'm with Weasel Bill in Idaho.


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## Ron in Drums PA (Jan 17, 2007)

> _Originally posted by jeff_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...



Absolutely Not!!

Things go WAY to far on IAP, to the point where they become explosive at times. That is why there are so many "Ugly Threads".

That said, I'm glad I don't have your job Jeff!
You couldn't pay me enough to do what you do.


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## Mikey (Jan 17, 2007)

As if my opinion means something, I say keep him out for good. how many times can someone be lectured, warned and banned before the threats mean nothing? What type of rule system is in place when you sign up if it means nothing? I personally have gleaned a few things from Eagle, but dop realize that if you don't follow the rules you are handed, you face the punishment. 

Some here remind me of judges in drunk driving cases where the guy has been caught half a dozen times. It's always the same thing, and in the end, the guy goes free and we all sit and wonder how in the world the judge let the guy off to offend again.


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## ilikewood (Jan 17, 2007)

My intent of my post was just to get people to end it.  There is no need to keep this going.

IT IS OUR 3RD ANNIVERSARY HERE!!  It is time to celebrate and enjoy the fact that we made it this far.  It is not the signal to try and stir the pot.

Let's all respectfully disagree and move on.  NOW...time for a trivia question!!


----------



## Skye (Jan 17, 2007)

> _Originally posted by bnoles_
> Ice cream makes everyone happy. []






> _Originally posted by whatwoodido_
> I have gotten numerous e-mails from people calling me all kinds of things including sissy, communist, socialist, liberal, pagan, anti-Christian (this was my favorite as I was requesting tolerance), and a herd of others.



I heard he doesnt like ice cream either! [:0]


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## Woodlvr (Jan 17, 2007)

Mikey,
  You would have defended yourself the same way that he did in this instance. He was unprovokedably attacked. Yes there were other instances BUT lets look at what started this, and the person whom started it. This is NOT a Judge with a drunk driving charge. At least treat him fairly with this instance. Is that asking too much??


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## DocStram (Jan 17, 2007)

It's time to stop the beating.  I just checked.  No pulse. No blood pressure. No body temperature.  I even held a mirror beneath his nose. The horse is dead.


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## JimGo (Jan 17, 2007)

It's even wors Skye...Drew doesn't even like WOOD!


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## wudnhed (Jan 17, 2007)

I'm sure glad I took my Zoloft today!!!!!! I think I'll go play with my granddaughters[]
Goodbye and goodnight!


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## Skye (Jan 17, 2007)

> _Originally posted by JimGo_
> <br />It's even wors Skye...Drew doesn't even like WOOD!



I knew there was something I didnt like about that joker!


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## skibrow (Jan 17, 2007)

My opinion probably does not count for much being I hardly ever post here, but the reasoning behind that is strictly due to this exact topic. Why bother posting anything if you know beforehand that the same few members who think they are the powers to be are just going to bash you or try to make you look stupid. I came here to learn to make pens.Period. Not Friends not enemies not get an ulcer trying to learn something. I think that Jeffs decision should not be under fire here as most all of you posting do know this was not a spur of the moment decision. I think it was well thought out and I think Jeff knew beforehand that he would recieve much backlash from his decision from the same bunch of croonies that always seem to end up in the same fueds all the time. I think all the people here should start to realize the reasons why this forum is here and think about that for a minute. I never did like the idea that a certain "click" here thinks that they are so all holy and mighty that any newcomer to the site should bow and ask for acceptance and accept the ridiculing from them to try to gain this. I think the Bannishment should stand and that two or three others need to join that as well and this would be an extremely great site to visit and post in frequently. For the ones who feel this pertains to them, well, your probably the ones I am referring to then.


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## Mikey (Jan 17, 2007)

> _Originally posted by Woodlvr_
> <br />Mikey,
> You would have defended yourself the same way that he did in this instance. He was unprovokedably attacked. Yes there were other instances BUT lets look at what started this, and the person whom started it. This is NOT a Judge with a drunk driving charge. At least treat him fairly with this instance. Is that asking too much??



Possibly, but I also know the rules. I may expect to be given a pass or be re-admitted based on the circumstances. Thios would be my first go round though. he KNEW what would happen as it has not only happened to him here before, but also on several other boards. Perhaps he was provoked, but based on what I have seen him write here and elsewhere, he seems to do a darn good job of it himself.

Also, someone clue me in to the reasoning behind someone saying that we need to stop this thread and move on. There are how many forum areas here all with 15 or 20 posts per front page and the only place I see any of this talk going on is in the Casual Talk forum, which states this is the place to do this type of talking. Also should be noted that even in the casual talk forum, this is the only thread. To say that "this place" has become negative would be a severe overstatement as it is in one single thread not being carried over into other posts as far as I can see.


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## davidrei (Jan 17, 2007)

Crimeny!!!!   Give Jeff a break, if you want to fight for Truth, Justice and the American Way, consider doing so with a topic of more import than pen making.  I like Eagle, he's had nothing but kind words & encouragement for me, but he's a big boy and can defend himself, as well as accept consequences of his actions.  The fairness of such consequences is an issue between him & Jeff, not the rest of us.


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## ilikewood (Jan 17, 2007)

I'm the one who says end it, so I don't mind my name being used.

Can anyone count how many people we have lost over these "casual conversations" that eventually turn insulting and end up offending more people than they help?  

It's not worth it...not at all.  Some want Eagle back....some don't.  Is there any reason to debate it?  It's Jeff's decision and he stated his reasons.  Isn't that enough or do we have to listen to more people complaining about it?

This type of bickering is USELESS!!  I say end it and lock it![B)]


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## Skye (Jan 17, 2007)

Mikey, I'm gonna badmouth you in another thread. Dagnabbit I'll do it!

Eh, some people want the thread to stop, some people want it to continue. To each their own. People have opinions on the matter and I think it's important and healthy to express them. So long as it's kept under control, like you, I donâ€™t see the harm in it. Overmodded and oppressed forums are the ones that fizzle out.


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## whatwoodido (Jan 17, 2007)

Hey, I like both Wood (not leopardwood, allergies) and Ice Cream (mmm..Maui Brownie Madness...drool).  




> _Originally posted by JimGo_
> <br />It's even wors Skye...Drew doesn't even like WOOD!


----------



## airrat (Jan 17, 2007)

My comment on this is we all need to sit back and reread a post before we submit it.   We need to get along with each other or face the jury.   I tend to avoid post by/about Eagle due to how they turn out and most of them ended the same way.  He even talked once about how many sites he has been kicked off of.

Can we all try to take a step up and get along.  Doc made a good post at the first of the year about getting along.   Time to drop all the grudges against each other and try to appreciate what everyone has to offer. 

Sorry to see them go.  I appreciate Jeff keeping peace on the site.


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## Rifleman1776 (Jan 17, 2007)

I'll ditto Johnny. Hang in there Jeff.
That said, I don't always agree with Jeff. We have politely, sometimes vigorously, disagreed at times. But he owns this forum and I support his decisions.


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## Rifleman1776 (Jan 17, 2007)

> _Originally posted by wood-of-1kind_
> <br />Can I suggest that a poll be set-up and allowing participants the opportunity to vote whether Eagle/Cozee can return to IAP? Just a suggestion but at least 'we' will know where we stand on this issue.
> 
> -Peter-



Absolutely a bad idea, respectfully.
Jeff owns the forum. His decisions are not subject to a 'vote'. Debate maybe but in the end it will only be all talk.


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## Rifleman1776 (Jan 17, 2007)

IMHO, Eagle's banishment was inevitable. That is the sad truth. He is extremely talented but also has an artists temperament that, it seems, he cannot control. I once considered him a friend. We did each other favors and talked on the phone. But, we had a falling out over an issue that doesn't need rehashing here. I wish him well but believe this forum is better off without him.


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## chitswood (Jan 17, 2007)

Its hard to be silent when you want friends to be allowed back on the IAP.

Jeff, your the head of this site, if we didn't have you...golly, we'd be the same as if a head didn't have its body - dead. We respect your opinion because we know you respect ours, as this thread has shown. Thanks Jeff.


I watched several people try to bait and troll Eagle for a while now and he has ignored them, I have a great respect for that, and do not blame him for defending himself from this recent bait/troll/personal attack, etc. I would not forfeit my dignity to be a member of any website; I, and many others, hope you return to the IAP, Eagle and cozzee[] 

("you're with friends now, dignity's got nothin' to do with it")

You contribute a lot, not just your work, but your personalities, and it would get rather boring here if that wasn't allowed.[] Just as it's no fun to lose a part of your body[xx(]


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## Penmonkey (Jan 17, 2007)

It's Cozee.[]


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## Roy99664 (Jan 17, 2007)

Any person with a computer and an internet connection, member or not, can  view the forum, but that capability was also taken away from Eagle. He should at least be allowed to peruse the website like anyone else.


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## Penmonkey (Jan 17, 2007)

He can.  He sent me an email after he was banned about one of my pens.


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## johnnycnc (Jan 17, 2007)

<br />


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## Woodlvr (Jan 17, 2007)

Good one, John.[]

Mike


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## NavyDiver (Jan 17, 2007)

Wow, I had no idea when I posted yesterday evening how volatile/passionate this discussion would become.  I get back on line 24 hours later and the thread has grown to seven pages.  Having served in the military for 20 years now (and counting) and having had command of two different organizations, I have learned a lot about leadership.  One thing that really stands out is the phrase "You can delegate responsiblity, but not accountability."  If you think about it, Jeff delegates the responsibility of managing the forum discussions to his moderators, who, IMHO do a fantastic job.  At the same time, Jeff, as "CO" is ultimately accountable for everything that occurs on the forum.  As the "CO", he has the final say on all decisions and we should respect that without nit-picking the ones we don't agree with.  I am relatively new here and appreciate the fact that Eagle reached out to me and my sons so we could improve in this craft.  This included giving each of us one of his phenominal cross blanks so we could try them and show that even a "novice" turner could produce a fantastic pen with the right materials.  That being said, I fully support Jeff in his decision to do what he feels is best for the overall forum.  If at some time in the future, Jeff decides to allow Eagle another opportunity to participate, he will again have my full support.  Leadership is never easy, and I believe that Jeff is doing a superb job keeping us on track and away from the shoals.


----------



## Jim Boyd (Jan 17, 2007)

Wow, I've been gone for a while but see some things never change[] But I've learned this place is tame compared to the gun forums I've been visiting[] Instead of asking folks to take a break and have some ice cream they would be shoving it down your throat with a jagged shovel. Kinda refreshing to see a civilized discussion like this[]


----------



## Randy_ (Jan 17, 2007)

> _Originally posted by jeff_
> <br />.....I don't think many people realize how difficult it is to satisfy a large group of people which is highly polarized by an issue.



Jeff:  You won't ever be able to satisfy everyone. Do what you think is best for IAP and you will have my support regardless of whether or not I agree with a specific decision!!


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## Penmonkey (Jan 17, 2007)

> _Originally posted by Jim Boyd_
> <br />Wow, I've been gone for a while but see some things never change[] But I've learned this place is tame compared to the gun forums I've been visiting[] Instead of asking folks to take a break and have some ice cream they would be shoving it down your throat with a jagged shovel. Kinda refreshing to see a civilized discussion like this[]



I know what you mean.  I stopped going to Glock Talk because of that.  Someone would disagreed with everything and anything (don't even talk about the 45 ACP being better than a 9MM)[xx(].

Let's be nice.[]


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## Russb (Jan 17, 2007)

Flogging A Dead Horse


----------



## Ron in Drums PA (Jan 17, 2007)

> _Originally posted by Jim Boyd_
> <br /> Kinda refreshing to see a civilized discussion like this[]



You know it's funny, I thought this discussion was pretty civil. 
The only people beating a dead horse are the one's posting those old pictures we've seen a million times.

Enjoy


----------



## jjenk02 (Jan 17, 2007)

Jeff, I would like to see Eagle back. That being said, after reading your post as to what your agreement was, with Eagle, I now understand why you made your decision and support it. My hope is that someday you will reconsider and give him a third/fourth chance. 

Good night,

PS: I don't want any of my donations back and I do plan on giving more as I can................


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## rtjw (Jan 17, 2007)

hey Ron, I saw an article about that picture the other day. They cant find out why he was sitting on the horse. Couple of reasons they think:

1. He was posing for the picture
2. He was making a statement about the sanitation
3. There used to be a law that you could not leave a dead animal in the streets so you had to wait until someone came along and helped you get rid of it.


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## woodpens (Jan 17, 2007)

I support Jeff's decision. You cannot expect anybody to follow rules if they are not enforced. You can only give someone so many chances.


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## turned_for_good (Jan 18, 2007)

For all those who can't live or even be the least bit creative without Eagles' input, be patient, I'm sure he will make an apperance somewhere else before you know it.


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## larrystephens (Jan 18, 2007)

As a new member to this forum, I have no opinion about the controversy, however, I have spent the last 20 years communicating via email and forums and realize that tempers can flare easily, and be calmed just as easily with a telephone call and verbal negotiation.  All the posturing and hurtful statements can be easily washed away with a friendly give and take conversation.  I hope this helps!


----------



## Radman (Jan 18, 2007)

Jeff wrote:
I received a number of emails from him after the incident. He referred to me as "having no credibility", "making boneheaded decisions", "not having the guts" to deal with him, and "not being able to admit a mistake." I don't have the inclination to deal with someone who has zero respect for other people. 

After reading that, I don't see how you can let him back in and keep your own respect at the same time.


----------



## Penmonkey (Jan 18, 2007)

You are not the only one to get the emails Tom.[V]


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## DocStram (Jan 18, 2007)

> _Originally posted by Penmonkey_
> <br />You are not the only one to get the emails Tom.[V]


I was compared with those who sat back and watched while Nazis exterminated Jews. [?]


----------



## Dario (Jan 18, 2007)

> _Originally posted by DocStram_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...



Travis and Al...what is this about? I am confused. [?][?][?]


----------



## Penmonkey (Jan 18, 2007)

Eagle is harassing me.

Just some of the things he said:

"Along with being forgetful you also aren't bright or observant".

"Then again that is what I would expect from a minion of Johnnies."


----------



## elody21 (Jan 18, 2007)

> _Originally posted by NavyDiver_
> <br />Wow, I had no idea when I posted yesterday evening how volatile/passionate this discussion would become.  I get back on line 24 hours later and the thread has grown to seven pages.  Having served in the military for 20 years now (and counting) and having had command of two different organizations, I have learned a lot about leadership.  One thing that really stands out is the phrase "You can delegate responsiblity, but not accountability."  If you think about it, Jeff delegates the responsibility of managing the forum discussions to his moderators, who, IMHO do a fantastic job.  At the same time, Jeff, as "CO" is ultimately accountable for everything that occurs on the forum.  As the "CO", he has the final say on all decisions and we should respect that without nit-picking the ones we don't agree with.  I am relatively new here and appreciate the fact that Eagle reached out to me and my sons so we could improve in this craft.  This included giving each of us one of his phenominal cross blanks so we could try them and show that even a "novice" turner could produce a fantastic pen with the right materials.  That being said, I fully support Jeff in his decision to do what he feels is best for the overall forum.  If at some time in the future, Jeff decides to allow Eagle another opportunity to participate, he will again have my full support.  Leadership is never easy, and I believe that Jeff is doing a superb job keeping us on track and away from the shoals.


Eric hits the nail on the head. Kudos. This too will pass


----------



## Dario (Jan 18, 2007)

> _Originally posted by Penmonkey_
> <br />Eagle is harassing me.
> 
> Just some of the things he said:
> ...



So sorry to hear that (for you and him). [V]


----------



## Skye (Jan 18, 2007)

There's another email offender for you to be sorry for too, Dario. I wont name names, but let's just say it's not a big _secret_. Seeing how he 'demanded' I not directly address him on this forum, I'll leave it at that. I dont want to get _sued_ or anything.


----------



## wdcav1952 (Jan 18, 2007)

Ladies and gentlemen, this is starting to degenerate into a bitch session.  We tried having officers and a board of directors here some time back, and the idea crashed and burned.  At that time Jeff took back over as a benevolent dictator.  It is his forum to run as he sees fit.  

The purpose of this thread was to express your opinion as to the situation involving Eagle, and by extension, Cozee.  I think using this thread to quote private emails not sent by the pm function is inappropriate.  I also think using it to take swings at those you do not like is also appropriate.

I would like to see Eagle back, as I stated.  That is my opinion only, all decisions are left up to Jeff.

Try some civility, it is a pretty neat concept.


----------



## dfurlano (Jan 18, 2007)

Who is not civil?  Seems to me to be just a conversation.


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## DocStram (Jan 18, 2007)

> _Originally posted by wdcav1952_
> <br />Ladies and gentlemen, this is starting to degenerate into a bitch session.  We tried having officers and a board of directors here some time back, and the idea crashed and burned.  At that time Jeff took back over as a benevolent dictator.  It is his forum to run as he sees fit.
> 
> The purpose of this thread was to express your opinion as to the situation involving Eagle, and by extension, Cozee.  I think using this thread to quote private emails not sent by the pm function is inappropriate.  I also think using it to take swings at those you do not like is also appropriate.
> ...



William ......   I think this is a rather unusual situation in that at least two members, that I know of, are receiving unsolicited emails from a person who is banned from IAP and thus, unable to send pm's.  I agree wholeheartedly that civility should be maintained from all sides, including those sending pm's and emails. As always, I respect your opinion and value your friendship. I, like many others, look forward to this issue being put to rest.


----------



## DCBluesman (Jan 18, 2007)

> _Originally posted by Skye_
> <br />There's another email offender for you to be sorry for too, Dario. I wont name names, but let's just say it's not a big _secret_. Seeing how he 'demanded' I not directly address him on this forum, I'll leave it at that. I dont want to get _sued_ or anything.



Ok, Skye.  Let's give it a go.  Here is my nastygram...and your response.


> admin@penturners.org (admin@penturners.org)
> Reply-ToCBluesman@hotmail.com
> 
> To: DCBluesman@hotmail.com (DCB1uesman@hotmail.com)
> ...



Here is his reply:



> Skye Maloney (*****************) +Add contact
> To: DCBluesman@hotmail.com
> 
> Subject: Re: Sent From penturners.org by DCBluesman
> ...



The four asterisks which I have highlighted in red (twice) are "auto-changed" by the site  software to disallow the common term for oats that have already been processed through a horse.


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## Randy_ (Jan 18, 2007)

Lou: No doubt that Skye's email was totally inappropriate; but to air it publicly on this forum is equally inappropriate!!!  You are WAAAAAY out of line to make a post like that here and should have dealt with it privately or taken it to Jeff off board.  You are going to get this thread shut down if you don't behave a little more responsobly.


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## jeff (Jan 18, 2007)

Good evening, everyone.

It seems that this topic has finally hit bottom.

For anyone who is confused, let me point out why; The Terms of Service and the Acceptable Use Policy are clear on the issue of disclosing private email addresses, and posting the content of private email exchanges without the consent of all parties.

Here's what the TOS says in the Member Conduct section: _<b>You may not use the service to transmit the private information of another person without consent, nor may you post the contents of email exchanges without the consent of all parties involved._</b>

I'll be the first to admit that some violations are subjective, but this one is pretty clear-cut.


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