# double closed ended statesman. help!



## Parson (Jul 15, 2010)

I was able to purchase the bottom mandrel for the statesman from AS yesterday, but I need one for the top.

If you know where I can buy one, reply with a link.

I still don't really have my head around how to use a pen disassembly tool or punch rod to actually hold a piece in place.


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## its_virgil (Jul 15, 2010)

You don't really need a special mandrel to make closed end pens. Read the closed end pen articles on my website at http;www.RedRiverPens.com/articles

I don't think a special mandrel is.available for the pen in question.
Do a good turn daily!
Don


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## Paladin (Jul 15, 2010)

Parson said:


> I still don't really have my head around how to use a pen disassembly tool or punch rod to actually hold a piece in place.


 

Buy a few big balloons. Assuming you are right handed...put the part of the pen you want to use the punch on in your left hand. Put the part of the pen that is liable to fly off when the punch does it's job in the balloon opening. Pull enough of the balloon up and around your pen so that your left hand is grasping the pen section but the balloon is between your skin and the pen. Insert the biggest punch that will go in the tube. Hopefully, it will stop sliding into the tube when it reaches the part of the kit on the tube that you want to remove. 

Grip tightly and rap the end of the punch with a hammer. With luck the part you want off will be propelled into the balloon, where it will be easy to retrieve.

Good luck.


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## rherrell (Jul 16, 2010)

I make my own pin chucks. Here's one I made to turn a Maglite.....







Can you see the little "pin"? I turn the bar down so it's a fairly tight fit in the tube. Then I notch the end the EXACT amount of the "pin", in this case 1/8".
Then you put the blank on the chuck and give it a spin, that moves the pin a tad and locks it in place. Turn it the other direction to remove.....SIMPLE!:biggrin:

Look in the library, Steven Jackson has an article on how to make one and you won't need any metalworking tools.


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## fernhills (Jul 16, 2010)

That what i do, but i use the O ring method for pin. Easy peasy to make, everybody has a file and grinder. At over 20 bucks a shot for the different sizes , it gets to be expensive to offer the many types of closed or double closed end pens. Check out Skip`s tutorial in the library. Carl


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## Parson (Jul 16, 2010)

Anyone want to make one for me? I'm willing to pay you for it.

I'd much rather spend my time making pens instead of pen tools.


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## RAdams (Jul 16, 2010)

dont you have an adjustable mandrel? That is all the special chuck you need. I have two or three pin chucks, but once i learned how to use a regular mandrel, they collect dust in a drawer somewhere. I use my mandrel to make closed end slims, Euros, cigars, JGs, you name it... All on a regular adjustable pen mandrel.


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## RAdams (Jul 16, 2010)

you dont even have to leave the site...


http://content.penturners.org/articles/2010/howimakeaclosedendpenonaregularmandrel.pdf


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## jskeen (Jul 16, 2010)

another option is to just take a tube for the bottom and drill and mount a practice blank, and turn it so that the tube for the top just slip fits over it.  then take it to your bandsaw and cut some notches in from each end 45 degrees from each other.  Sand this adapter lightly again to smooth up, and clean any brass burrs from the inside with a file or some sandpaper.  Mount the closed end mandrel, slip the adapter on, slip the ready to turn cap blank over it and tighten up.  should have close to zero TRO if you were careful.


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## PenMan1 (Jul 16, 2010)

With a Beall Collet (or PSI) chuck, you can mount a 1/2 inch or 3/4 dowel (cut to about 4 or 5 inches long), then turn the wooden dowel until it is a tight "friction" fit inside the top tube.

It ain't fancy, but it can be made in about 2 minutes and works well. I used the "dowel approach" well before I even knew what a pin chuck was. The worst thing that can happens is that you have to apply a little "redneck engineering" tape if it starts to slip.


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## MartinPens (Jul 18, 2010)

I wonder why they don't have the closed-end for the cap? They sell the cap mandrels for the other pens. I would send them an email and ask about it. It's easier to use these mandrels, in my opinion, than making one. I have made an O ring mandrel and still ended up buying the mandrels from AS.


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## Parson (Jul 19, 2010)

Martin, I did email and ask if they had one. The three word reply from the owner was, "No, we don't."

I'm thinking I will grind down one of my Harbor Freight punches and make a pin chuck.


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## MartinPens (Jul 19, 2010)

Parson said:


> Martin, It did email and ask if they had one. The three word reply from the owner was, "No, we don't."
> 
> I'm thinking I will grind down one of my Harbor Freight punches and make a pin chuck.


 
I followed the tutorial and ground down a pin chuck. I works fairly well. Once you slide the blank onto the pin chuck - just give it a really good twist so that it's locked in nice and tight.

There was another tutorial on using a cement anchor bolt that might be worth a try. Not sure where I saw it. I'll take a look.

Martin


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## jskeen (Jul 19, 2010)

If the idea of making the expandable adapter sleeve for your existing expanding chuck don't thrill you, and want to go with a pin chuck, Here's a hint.  Instead of using a round pin, try getting an allen wrench the same max diameter (corner to corner, not across the flats) as the round pin, and cut off a small piece to use.  It will lock up quicker and hold better than the round one, but still release easily when counter-rotated.


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## RAdams (Jul 20, 2010)

Just curious, Is there an advantage to using a pin chuck over the expandable mandrel? Seems like alot of work and time to make a tool that you may not need. Not to mention, I am more of a multi-tasking tool fan myself. I don't want a shop full of tools that only have one single purpose in the whole wide world. My expandable mandrel is already designed to fit my lathe, and bushings, and the whole nine yards... If there is no bushing for the kit in question, I can make a bushing in a few minutes, compared to how ever long it takes to make a pin chuck... Just a thought..


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## fernhills (Jul 20, 2010)

Ok lets see, you use a jam chuck which is fine for a lot of things.  In pens you know they can be narrow sticks, you don`t want to jam them and force them on one end. That's why many people TBC because they want to avoid that and the problems associated with it. A pin chuck helps out with those problem.  As far as to many tools.  "its just a bolt". Thats just my point of view.  Regards, Carl


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## RAdams (Jul 21, 2010)

A jam chuck? I don't understand. In my experience, A jam chuck is a chuck that is super tight fitted to the work and you "Jam" the work onto the chuck. Using an expandable mandrel is a bit different than a jam chuck. I think it would be closer to TBC than a pin chuck. When you use the mandrel, you use the tailstock to support the back until the very last minute. Then you tape the front of the work to the headstock and finish the bottom off. 

If you use a pin chuck, you are risking OOR pens in my opinion. If your pin is too big, it won't fit right and could easily warp the tube shape or even crack the work. If it is too small, the tube and work will not be in the perfect position for turning, therefore it will be OOR. 


I agree about the whole "It's just another tool" aspect. In fact, I have a couple of pin chucks myself. But at the same time, If i know of a better, easier, faster way to do something that also saves me an hour or two of cutting, filing, and shaping a bolt, well that is the way i go. It personally makes no difference to me, as I have already found my favorite technique. I was just asking because i figured there was something about a pin chuck that maybe i didn't know that makes it better. In my experience, A pin chuck would be more of a last resort than a preferred method.


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## Parson (Jul 21, 2010)

OK guys, I still need help with the original issue. The largest Harbor Freight punch I have is still too small for the cap end tube of the statesman I need to turn.

More ideas please!

BTW, the base of the pen is done and folks, it is spectacular if I do say so myself. I really want to finish it up now with the cap end!


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## jskeen (Jul 22, 2010)

Hey Randall;  If the problem with making a sleeve to go over the expanding mandrel to make it fit the cap is that you don't have a spare lower tube, I've got plenty laying around here.  If you're interested, I'll make one up for you, and you can bring the mandrel and the cap over here and try it out.  Drop me a pm and let me know.


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## its_virgil (Jul 22, 2010)

Hmmm...looks like something I read a couple of years back in a woodtuning magazine...oh, I didn't read it...I wrote it...for More Woodturning. Check out my process for an alternative method of making closed end pens.
http://www.redriverpens.com/pdf files/Closed end pens part 2.pdf

Do a good turn daily!
Don



RAdams said:


> you dont even have to leave the site...
> http://content.penturners.org/articles/2010/howimakeaclosedendpenonaregularmandrel.pdf


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## bitshird (Jul 22, 2010)

Why a closed end cap for a Statesman, a Jr Gent has the same clip and you can make custom center band with out too much trouble, it's not REAL EASY but neither is a closed end, and there is about a 10.00 price difference for basically the same components in the same plating's.


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## its_virgil (Jul 22, 2010)

No special tooling is needed. There are two articles referenced in this thread outlining how to make closed end pens using a standa3d mandrel. The ball is now lingering in your court. Several other solutions have also been sugested. 
Do a good turn daily!
Don. 




Parson said:


> OK guys, I still need help with the original issue. The largest Harbor Freight punch I have is still too small for the cap end tube of the statesman I need to turn.
> 
> More ideas please!
> 
> BTW, the base of the pen is done and folks, it is spectacular if I do say so myself. I really want to finish it up now with the cap end!


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## RAdams (Jul 22, 2010)

its_virgil said:


> Hmmm...looks like something I read a couple of years back in a woodtuning magazine...oh, I didn't read it...I wrote it...for More Woodturning. Check out my process for an alternative method of making closed end pens.
> http://www.redriverpens.com/pdf files/Closed end pens part 2.pdf
> 
> Do a good turn daily!
> Don


 


Almost everything i learned about doing closed end pens was provided by Don. If you take anyones advice, Listen to Don! He knows what he is talking about when it comes to closed end pens! Even the tutorial i wrote is based on the knowledge i learned from him and his site.


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## Parson (Jul 22, 2010)

jskeen, thank you for your kind offer! Don, I printed out that fine article a while back... you are the man. My problem was that I had already drilled the cap and glued in the tube and there wasn't enough room up top for more drilling to accept the mandrel shaft.

Tonight, I took that largest HF punch, made a pin chuck out of it, wrapped it in two layers of masking tape, and got after it. Worked great!

I do not want to do more pens with this setup though. I want a proper pin chuck that's the right size. So, I will be buying a steel rod that's larger than what I need and asking a friend with a metal lathe to turn it down to size for me.

You know, I might just ask him to make me some custom made bushings for these fatty cigar sized pens I'm making.


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