# Is It Possible



## curlyjoe (Mar 1, 2006)

I have this major problem- I need to make 3000 slim lines by sept. 1st can it be done? I could make about $60,000 on the deal minus supplies. So can it be done and mybe split the profits with someone in the Ohio area????? OH and I need to know by tonite  talk about a rush job! thanks


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## its_virgil (Mar 1, 2006)

Sure it can...that's just 17 pens per day, every day, from now to sept 1.[] Good luck on your venture.
Do a good turn daily!
don


> _Originally posted by curlyjoe_
> <br />I have this major problem- I need to make 3000 slim lines by sept. 1st can it be done?


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## sptfr43 (Mar 1, 2006)

I would think that for 60 grand anything would be poosible even if it meant working at it 20 hrs a day[]. way to go


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## huntersilver (Mar 1, 2006)

Good Sale!

Do you have any local woodturning clubs?


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## Huzzah (Mar 1, 2006)

Depending on what you are looking for any potential partner to do I might be willing to help.  How's that for an answer?  I am relatively new to penturning.  I have all the tools but have yet to make a pen I am completely happy with.  I still haven't mastered the finishing of wood.  I think I have acrylics down pretty well.  

I live in Broadview Heights so I am only 15 minutes away from you.  I will e-mail you my phone number through your profile if you want to call me tonight and talk about what you have in mind.

Steve



> _Originally posted by curlyjoe_
> <br />I have this major problem- I need to make 3000 slim lines by sept. 1st can it be done? I could make about $60,000 on the deal minus supplies. So can it be done and mybe split the profits with someone in the Ohio area????? OH and I need to know by tonite  talk about a rush job! thanks


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## Johnathan (Mar 1, 2006)

Sounds like some fun late nights[8D] I'd make sure this deal isn't too good to be true. Just be careful.[8)]


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## wudwrkr (Mar 1, 2006)

I think there are several things to consider. Will these be straight slimlines or contoured?  What kind of material will you be using for the blanks?  Wood: Exotics or domestic?  What kind of finish? CA, Mylands, Deft, Enduro, Hut?  Will these be engraved?  Do you need a box or pouch for each pen?   Some of these things can add up in cost and time.  

$20 a slimline for 3,000 is a good deal, but you also need to understand what would be expected of you for the end product.  If it were me, I would do it, but I know I would have to get help. I am sure you could get additional help outside of OH if you need to.  Johnathan gave some good advice.  Make sure this is for real and require a good chunk up front.  Enough to take care of materials and some of your time.  Also write up a contract spelling out delivery times and payment timetables.  

Just a few thoughts that came to mind.    Good luck and let us know what you decide.


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## curlyjoe (Mar 1, 2006)

A little clarification- they would be slightly contoured and the wood is buckeye burl i figured friction polish or spray laquer. The bulk of the money would be up front , the boxes would be standard wood boxes i came up with about 23,000 for supplies the rest would be profit nothing major simple pen design but its the time frame that kicks ya in the hinny.  thanks for looking and for the help i will need it so i think i will say yes its not a for sure thing yet there a presentation and approval pending  but it is real .thanks again.


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## Mac In Oak Ridge (Mar 1, 2006)

I'd be real interested in where you are going to come up with 3000 (+ 5% for ones that blow up) Buckeye Burl pen blanks at one time.  

Think about stablized blanks and see if you can leave off the finishing. Just TSW and a buff.


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## dubdrvrkev (Mar 1, 2006)

I'll probably get shunned for this but I got one word for you- duplicator. But buckeye burl sometimes takes a little extra care. Dump the friction polish, that could be too many unhappy customers and way too much $$ to eat. Spend a little extra time and spray deft or CA. With priority mail as quick as it normally is, don't limit your help to local you could ship a lot of pens in one of the $8.10 boxes.
Good luck and nice sell.

Edit for horrible grammar.


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## mrcook4570 (Mar 1, 2006)

WOW! That is one heck of an order.  It would be quite a challenge.  Do you think you will ever turn another pen after that order???


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## curlyjoe (Mar 1, 2006)

Thanks for all the input i called the person and told them that i would do it . i figured that i could get some help from  the little wife on putting them together , i turn quite a few buckeyes with out a problem (knock on wood) i was going to order from a few different places to get the supplies it would kill 2 weeks but if i want to sell i got to get the stuff out there somehow . i'll let you all know how it goes but they need to present the stuff on friday and would then approve it if the price is write but i was told that if i could keep it under $30 a pen i got a good chance of getting the deal/ thanks again and i'll post more as i get more info.


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## stilgar (Mar 1, 2006)

I do a lot of buckeyes and while you have to take care, they are great looking pens.  I love it when they start out with one color and move to another.  I have one pen that started out as a silver and when it was finished, I would swear that I used a yellow or gold blank.

I have been using friction polishes without any problems but I do put on multiple coats.

Good luck, let us know if you need any help.


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## wood-of-1kind (Mar 1, 2006)

Very nice order Joe.

$23K for material and the rest=profit? I think that you may rethink this statement. How much is your labour worth? How about the fee that is to be paid to a potential helper? Is the 'gravy' still as thick/juicy? Don't mean to discourage your enthusiasm but far too many forget about paying themselves from their sale. Best of luck.

-Peter-[]


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## Ron Mc (Mar 1, 2006)

Fantastic order! You need to make sure that you can get the materials in a timely basis. I assume that you have already made the appropriate calls to several suppliers of the kits and wood so that they can prepare?
Remember 3000 kits and enough wood for 3000 pens is a lot for any style kit or single wood type from multiple suppliers. Give them plenty of time.


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## curlyjoe (Mar 1, 2006)

The way i figured it out was if i can get a good deal on the supplies the rest would go to the people helping me out -to me if its extra money not spent on supplies then its profit.i am lucky to get the chance to show my pens and if it brings more business my way then thats a profit . i just like to work with my hands and have fun doing it . Money is nice but being happy and doing what i love is better[] I'm gonna try to do this i might fail or i might make it but i gave it a shot and if i can make some money and have some others make some then i'm ok with that too. Its a good start to a good thing i will know more over the weekend if not on friday.thanks for the input and the motivation to try this.[][]


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## wudwrkr (Mar 1, 2006)

Joe,
Good luck to you.  Let me know if you need help.  

dave


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## curlyjoe (Mar 1, 2006)

Thanks all for the encourgement - i admit i have no idea what i am doing i am way to excited on this one , but if it works out its a good payday.but nothing is carved in stone yet all guesstamits now. I will post more as i get it . thanks for the help.


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## PenWorks (Mar 1, 2006)

Boy am I glad you made my pen before you got this order [:0] []
Just curoius Joe, are your retired ? If not, I was wondering how you are going to fit this in your schedule? Not that it couldn't be done if you do work, just being a curious Joe []

If the deal does go threw, Congrats on the nice sell and if things don't materialize, well it was fun thinking about what if....and you will be better prepared for the next big request. []


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## alamocdc (Mar 1, 2006)

Joe, I have one word for you concerning keeping your supply costs down... Woodturningz. They even have stabilized buckeye burl.


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## stilgar (Mar 1, 2006)

If you order from Woodturningz, I better get an order in before you do [].  I get the feeling that they will be out of buckeye burl for a while.[]


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## curlyjoe (Mar 1, 2006)

I injured my back about 2 yrs ago and they fired me for it said i was lying so i decided to become a stay at home dad my wife and i foster 3 boys and plan to adopt the two the eldest will age out in two yrs. I would have sent you your pen either way. thanks  and your right i will be better prepared but i would hat myself more if i didn't try
I can always count on you anthony to make me laugh[] maybe i can work with you[][]  Your a good man anthony[]


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## curlyjoe (Mar 1, 2006)

Woodturningz has been notified - first on my list of suppliers you better hurry and get your buckeyes fast![]


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## PenWorks (Mar 1, 2006)

Thanks Joe, but don't count on me for any help [)] 
I get the cold sweats on orders for 5 pens []


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## Randy_ (Mar 2, 2006)

Three thousand pens in 6 months is quite a project!!  I suspect that there are very few people here who work in that volume of pens and those that do probably don't need extra work.  That being the case, you are probably dealing with the recruiting of folks who are small time turners.  I know that your original post asked for a single partner in the Ohio area; but i suspect that ultimately there will multiple turners involved who are scattered throughout the country.  If that analysis is correct, the next question is whether you are going to look for 30 people to do a hundred pens or 6 people to do 500 pens?  I can envision major complications with either choice.  You might consider offering a few more details on your production plan before trying to recruit partners.  I have a reasonable amount of free time; but am not sure i would want to commit to doing 500 pens in 6 months.


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## Rudy Vey (Mar 2, 2006)

Just one reminder, for an order of such dimensions, get a down payment of at least 50% of the total $ amount from your customer - so all your costs for supplies are covered and you have made sure they are not bs'ing with you.


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## Woodpenman (Mar 2, 2006)

Back before Christmas I made about 140 Barons in about 3 weeks. Each pen had a inlay and each pen box had an inlayed top. Padauk into the maple. I worked 12+ hrs a day and loved it.
BTW - I sent Joe an email offering some laser work for these 3000 pens. If wood boxes are being used I think with some engraving you could easily get the $30 per pen.


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## RussFairfield (Mar 2, 2006)

The only thing I can offer is to be aware that the more people you get involved and the farther they are away, the more you will become a project manager, the less you will be a pen turner, and the less control you will have over quality, schedule, and delivery.


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## Dario (Mar 2, 2006)

Another issue...different turners, different quality (style, fit and finish).

If not addressed properly, buyers tend to use the best of the lot as a benchmark (not your sample) and compare the rest to it which may become a big problem.  Make sure you set the benchmark during the negotiations.  bringing the best you have as a sample may get you the contract but make sure you can deliver pens that is equal or better than that later.


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## Mac In Oak Ridge (Mar 2, 2006)

> _Originally posted by wood-of-1kind_
> <br />Very nice order Joe.
> 
> $23K for material and the rest=profit? I think that you may rethink this statement. How much is your labour worth? How about the fee that is to be paid to a potential helper? Is the 'gravy' still as thick/juicy? Don't mean to discourage your enthusiasm but far too many forget about paying themselves from their sale. Best of luck.
> ...


And don't forget the Feds and the State Tax Division.


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## chigdon (Mar 2, 2006)

A couple of comments.

My heart dropped (for you) when I heard Buckeye Burl.  It is one of the most beautiful and unusual burls but not something I would look forward to turning 3000 of.  You definately need stabilized wood and this eliminates such a worry about the finish.  

I would talk to WSSI (http://www.stabilizedwood.com/) about possibly getting the wood.  If you want to have the best profit margin I would find a place to buy the burl whole and resaw it yourself and send it to WSSI to get stabilized yourself.  You would cut your price per blank substantially.  The problem is you are pressed for time as it is.  WSSI does sell wood and I think anyone in the business is going to be receptive to wheel and deal with you over 3000 stabilized burl blanks.

Take advantage of your buying power here and get some good deals.  Hopefully you can pull off buying everything up front.  Are you getting a deposit to cover materials?  Do you have some sort of contract to cover your costs if they were to fall through for some reason?

I definately agree that I would not forget about taxes -- both sales tax and income tax.  You will definately get a 1099.  If you don't have a sales tax ID # now is the time to get one.  (And save your receipts)  As for the profit vs. personal labor cost debate I think that is a silly arguement if the only person you are paying is yourself.  Then your labor rate is your profit.  At the end of the day you have to figure out whether it is worth it to you and if you could make more money doing something else (and have more fun).  Don't get me wrong I am one of the strongest proponents here for us all making more money doing this and taking it more seriously.  I just think that when I am turning pens for sale the profit I am making is my labor rate.  (OK I will get off my soapbox now)

Any way you cut it that is one heck of a sale.  Congrats! That will probably prove to be the biggest single sale of anyone here!?!


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## huntersilver (Mar 2, 2006)

I always factor in my Direct and Indirect costs and allocate
including my labor as well. Then you can figure out your profit. Your time is money and you have to think of the opportunity cost of doing something else.

Good luck and great sale!!


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## L32 (Mar 3, 2006)

Just read this Curly. if your still looking for help in the OHIO area I might be interested.  drop me a line[]


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## turnersdelight (Mar 3, 2006)

Hi curlyjoe,

my dad and I read over your problem ( or deal)[] where in ohio are you located. we are from Van Wert, about 30 miles west of Lima. my email is tipanderic@snsturningsupplies.com we might be interested in helping you out. how are you looking to split the mony, and where are you getting your kits from and what kind of slimlines are you getting. We are authorized dealers for PSI and maybe we could help you out on that to.

Let me know what you think.

Thank you 

Eric Swander 
   SNS Turning Supplies


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## curlyjoe (Mar 6, 2006)

Well It doesn't look like it will happen had problems agreeing on the prices so i declined to do them. Sorry all I tried to make it big and just flopped on my face. Thanks for all your input and help, By i wish it would've work out.


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## btboone (Mar 6, 2006)

On the bright side, that's so many pens that it would be pretty hard to not get total burnout.  It only takes around 10 pens for me to get that way.


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## Dario (Mar 6, 2006)

Joe,

You gave it a try that is all that matters.  No need to do a job that will not benefit you one way or another.

As most said...3,000 pens is not a joke. I agree with Bruce...after the 10th you will tend to slow down and feel the grind...and that is not a good feeling knowing that you still have 2,990 to go, then 2989, 2988, 2987,...


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## Daniel (Mar 6, 2006)

You may try getting ahold fo the organizers of the freedom Pen Project. they have been getting Slimline kits by the thousands for well over a year. I'm Sure the person supplying these for so long..At Cost. would appreciate the opportunity to do so for someone and make some money for a change.
getting the Buckeye Burl would be easier if you bought large pieces and cut your own blanks. of course that ads to the work load.
as far as a duplicator. i have seen past conversations that leave me thinking it is not that much faster. My son and I made 100 slimlines, with curves, in one week. still not quite the pace you need. He used a mini metal lathe to turn the blanks to there largest diameter. I then put the final shape to them on my wood lathe. then went back and finished them after all blanks where turned to there final shape.

good luck.


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## curlyjoe (Mar 6, 2006)

Thanks all you just get alittle bummed out when you put the effort into things and get turned down because they dont like the price, they wanted a cheapier pen -go to Kmart- But I'm still happy that I at least got a chance to try and your right on the burn out effect i would have hated myself after doing all those ,So back to the drawing board. Thanks Again.


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