# CA  Problem/question



## Russ Hewitt (Jul 22, 2015)

I had occasionally had problems with CA getting spots that are hazy or white.   It is usually just a few small areas and not the whole blank.  I start with BLO  on a clean cotton cloth and character blank. I then drip the CA  on and smooth it for approximately 30 seconds. I leave it on the slowest speed to drive. I typically put on 3 to 5 coats of thin. There does not seem to be any rhyme or reason. Does anyone know what causes this were what I could be doing wrong.


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## ed4copies (Jul 22, 2015)

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f28/white-spots-showing-up-days-after-finishing-132933/

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f28/ca-finish-question-127290/

Both of these cover the topic pretty well, but  I will continue to point out that CA is a GLUE, not a FINISH.   So, we should not be surprised that it has some problems as a finish.

I also believe that, given the dozens of variables, it is amazing guys can pick ONE variable and identify it as the culprit--age of CA, moisture intrusion, type of accelerator have all been positively identified as the problem.  

Good luck, hope you find all the right conditions.  OR, try a finish---there are many made for wood.

FWIW,
Ed


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## edstreet (Jul 22, 2015)

White spots are caused from moisture, see bloom as a reference on what it is.  

Also you can ignore those who have never done a CA finish and does not understand what it is or how it works (previous posters). I'm sure there will be many others posting in the same category. 

CA if done properly and correctly is very good, the problem is most people do not take the time to educate themselves on its usage and parrot bad practices.


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## farmer (Jul 25, 2015)

*Cotton cloth*



Russ Hewitt said:


> I had occasionally had problems with CA getting spots that are hazy or white.   It is usually just a few small areas and not the whole blank.  I start with BLO  on a clean cotton cloth and character blank. I then drip the CA  on and smooth it for approximately 30 seconds. I leave it on the slowest speed to drive. I typically put on 3 to 5 coats of thin. There does not seem to be any rhyme or reason. Does anyone know what causes this were what I could be doing wrong.


 
Nope have no idea exactly what you are doing wrong ?
Can you post a picture ?

White cotton clothe Hmmmm

Most clothes and almost everything seems to accelerate CA .

I ONLY use the blue paper towels from the auto parts store to use with CA..

I don't use any accelerator,  and personally I think the thin CA can be a pain to use.

Anymore I just use the medium CA , it may take 5 or 6 coats and may take a few hours to dry, but I don't have to re- do my finish ..


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## edstreet (Jul 25, 2015)

Worth mention that my previous post was edited and the context is not original and changed to something other than what I had said


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## skiprat (Jul 25, 2015)

WGAS


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## jeff (Jul 26, 2015)

edstreet said:


> Worth mention that my previous post was edited and the context is not original and changed to something other than what I had said



Ed, just for good sportsmanship and fun, I've restored your post.


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## edstreet (Jul 26, 2015)

There is a big difference between expression an opinion and being, well just wrong.  Every one of us has this problem.  I myself am wrong often, I also have an opinion, the two is not the same.  Being wrong is a learning opportunity.  It is also 'OK' to be wrong.  A skilled craftsman does not gain mastery level skills without being wrong a number of times and learning from their shortcomings then overcoming them.

Yes, Your Opinion Can Be Wrong | Houston Press

On the post I mentioned there are a good number of wrong info being parroted that is a public nuisance that is false information when it comes to various topic, the foremost being CA.  It is not my intention nor goal to pick on any one person, point them out or even belittle them.  It is however my intention to point out a serious problem that has been going on for a very unhealthy period of time.


If you call and talk to several glue companies, manufactures that is, then ask them about detailed information regarding the product you will very quickly see that some brands are better than others.  Various topics are HUGE eye openers such as PH / Chlorosis / Low Odor / Low Bloom / Surface Insensitive / Flexible / Additives such as Methyl methacrylate polymer, Ethylene Copolymer Rubber and the like.

Challenge yourself, explore and grow.

Back to the original posters question.

As I have previously mentioned bloom is the problem.  See this article from the permabond engineering company for a good detailed description.
How do I prevent white powdery residue when using instant adhesives? – Permabond | 
How about from one of the largest manufactures in the world of glue? Cyanoacrylates FAQ - Henkel North America - Q: What is blooming?

Also while on Henkelna's site explore this one as well. Cyanoacrylates FAQ - Henkel North America - Q: What does surface insensitive mean?

On a post partum note, did anyone take note of the trapped volatiles reference?


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## its_only_me (Jul 26, 2015)

edstreet said:


> On a post partum note, did anyone take note of the trapped volatiles reference?



A healthy diet will sort that out for you, lots of people are full of wind, but most of them don't insist on everyone else suffering from it.


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## steve worcester (Aug 2, 2015)

Moisture in the wood or moisture in the air are the biggest culprits of this.


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## Skie_M (Aug 9, 2015)

I generally use a CA finish on all my wood pens, and I've never had this issue crop up on me.  This may be due to the process I use to prep the pen blank right before applying the finish.


First, I turn the blank to my desired profile and sand it to finished profile with 220 grit dry.  Next, I bump it up to 500 grit dry, followed by a wipe with RUBBING ALCOHOL, which will dry pretty fast.  Then I go back over it with 500 grit as the blank is drying.  After that, I do the same again with 1000 grit.  Wipe with isopropyl, run over it again with 1000 grit.  By now, the wood surface looks nice and uniformly shiny and is very dry.

At this time, I make a single application of Minwax Stain and Seal (color - natural).  This wets the wood appearance really well, and ends up reacting with the CA that is applied right after while it's still wet.  The CA ends up bonding to the Minwax and wood instantly.  I use a pretty heavy first coat.  I immediately (it's already dry) apply a second heavy coat of CA from the OPPOSITE direction.  I only spend  seconds with my blue shop paper towels in contact with the pen barrels (any more and I risk getting little blue paper bits stuck to my work).

I then wait a good 5 minutes between coats of CA, going from one side, then the other, till I have 6 to 9 coats on the pen.  The CA that I use is just the 10-packs of disposable tubes made by Harbor Freight Tools for $2.99...  It's medium thickness stuff, I think, though it also runs pretty quick when I'm glueing up my blanks.

As for final sanding and polish, I start at 1000 grit (all sanding from here on is wet) to knock down any surface ridging and flatten it all, and turn the lathe off after to sand "with the grain" to remove any surface ridging that the sandpaper may have caused.  I do this "with the grain" sanding every time I jump a number of grits or every other grit.

After 1000 grit, jump to 3200/3400, then 4000, 6000, 8000, 12,000.  After the 12k, I use Meguiar's PlastX (which works just like One-Step Plastic Polish, only cheaper), and finish up with Turtle Wax Hard Coat.

It's a long process, but the results look spectacular.


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