# Finally!  My titanium fountain pen.



## btboone (Feb 19, 2005)

Well it took a while, but I finally got it.  The pen is all custom without kit parts except for the El Grande style nib.  It can hold a backup ink cartridge or an ink pump.  The centerband is 22 karat gold and sterling silver mokume gane.  The blind turned cap can post on the blind turned body.  The clip is made from the same 6Al4V aircraft grade titanium as the pen body.  It has an anodize fade for a little spice.

Critiques welcome.


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## DCBluesman (Feb 19, 2005)

Exceptional! Price?  $1,500?


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## btboone (Feb 19, 2005)

Sold! [] I'm not sure what it would cost.  The mokume material was pretty expensive.  I would like for others to help define what it might be worth.  I would need to upgrade to a nicer nib, but I left open the possibility to make a titanium part where the black plastic part is now.  

The toughest part was figuring out all the tooling needed to hold it and things like that.  I had two crashes of my lathe making the body part.  The lathe is not used to long thin parts like that!  I snapped off my 1/2" carbide drill in the next tool station over because the outside turning tool came closer to the chuck than on my rings and the drill hit the side of the chuck.  Space is pretty tight in this lathe.

The polished finish is not that practical for a normal environment, but it might do well with an executive.  The polished finish did create a problem for my cap posting as tightly as it did when it was still rough.  It was a perfect jam fit before, but now the surface is a bit too smooth.  I may need to make something that holds it tight.

Edit: I take that back.  I had lined the inside of the cap with CA to keep from scuffing the body, and that affected the fit a little.  I scraped out the CA and got my perfect fit again.  It works like a Morse taper because of the perfectly matched low angled surfaces.  It locks well and everything is so smooth that it doesn't seem to scuff the body.


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## Gary Max (Feb 19, 2005)

That is a work of art.
I can't even begin to figure out how you can price something like that.


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## btboone (Feb 19, 2005)

Just don't try to bring it on an airplane.  Security might frown on the pointy metal object.


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## DCBluesman (Feb 19, 2005)

If I saw that pen in _Pen World_ for $1,500 I wouldn't be the least bit surprised.  It's gorgeous.


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## btboone (Feb 19, 2005)

Looks like I need a subscription to Pen World.  []  This was my first fountain pen.  Hopefully there will be more.  The mokume was not my original intent on this one, but an errant X coordinate persuaded me that mokume was probably the way to go.  I'll do another with my original intent.

I was slammed with orders tonight, but I was close and decided to just go ahead and finish the pen.  Sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do!


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## wdcav1952 (Feb 19, 2005)

Damn Bruce, don't you care about other people's feelings at all?  How can I go turn one of my pens after seeing this pen?  That is truly awesome.  I have never heard Lou drool over a pen like this.  Hell, I probably would buy an 8 x 10 color glossy of this pen.

BTW, nice work.


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## Ken Massingale (Feb 19, 2005)

Unbelievable Bruce. Gorgeous!


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## Old Griz (Feb 19, 2005)

Hell, I would give my eye teeth to be able to produce something like that out of wood, much less metal... 
Absolutely a work of art...


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## Gregory Huey (Feb 19, 2005)

Bruce
I can't think of the right word to say about this OUTSTANDING pen.
(SPLEN-DOE-WOW-GEE-AHH).Thanks now i got to wipe all the droll off my key board.


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## C_Ludwigsen (Feb 19, 2005)

That is SUPERB!!!  The only word that comes to mind to PAY for a pen like that is ... MORTGAGE.
Great work.


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## Fred in NC (Feb 19, 2005)

Wow, Bruce !!!!

Superb.  Definitely worth the $1500.


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## jeff (Feb 19, 2005)

That is a stunner, Bruce.  Honestly, $1500 is low.
Would you mind if I posted that picture on the front page?


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## jkirkb94 (Feb 19, 2005)

Beautiful craftsmanship, Bruce!  Pricewise the only place that I could compare was the Grayson Tighe web site that was posted on one of your earliest posts. http://www.tighepen.com/.  I hope to see more of these works of art as you get more skilled in making them!  Great idea on the clip! Kirk[8D]  BTW, how do you get such a mirror finish with the titanium?


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## Mudder (Feb 19, 2005)

I cannot afford a pen of such beauty and elegance, but if I could, $1500.00 does not seem outrageous to me.


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## Mac In Oak Ridge (Feb 19, 2005)

Looks like you have launched a new career.  Beautiful!


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## terry q (Feb 19, 2005)

I would love to hold it.  This is a real work of art.  Your workman ship is superb.  I agree that $1500 is not out of line for this pen.  With the best nib possible then the price could easily be $3000.  The people that can fork out that kind of cash wouldn't hesitate for a second to buy a one of a kind hand made pen of this quality.  

Terry


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## btboone (Feb 19, 2005)

Thanks guys!  I'm proud of that one.  It was a couple late nights, that's for sure.  Jeff, please do feel free to post it wherever you like. 

Kirk, the machine has a lot to do with the finish, but I do it just like a wood or acrylic pen.  Start with a relatively coarse grit and sand against the machining marks and get progressively finer.  I end up polishing them (and my rings too) with hard cotton buffs on a rotary tool to get the fine pits out and end up on my 8" polishing wheel to give the final blending run which removes any swirl marks from the buffs.  I use a white waxy compound made for stainless steel.

Part of the cool part of the design was getting rid of all the threads.  I was amazed when I got an El Grande pen that there were all those inserts with threads.  I lost count after a while.  I drew everything to scale, and was looking on ways on how to spice up an El Grande, and I saw that it was all pretty much defined for you.  I was going to have to get radical in order to change things.  It took a couple long nights of designing, and another couple nights of thinking through how to actually make the parts.  I had to order a bunch of cobalt drills and I had to made a few fixtures in order to get started.


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## Jim in Oakville (Feb 19, 2005)

Good Morning,

I had no expectations when I clicked on you post today in what I might see, the first word that came out of mouth after about 10 seconds of silence was WOW....that is a wonderful work of art...simply wonderful!


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## jwoodwright (Feb 19, 2005)

Bruce, that is the best looking pen I've ever seen.  The craftsmanship is perfect.  You've raised the "bar" so high we need oxygen to reach it... []


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## wpenm (Feb 19, 2005)

Fantastic! Great work of art.


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## pipemaker (Feb 19, 2005)

Bruce,

After viewing your initial post, I had to go out and purchase another keyboard for my computer. There was simply too much drool on the first one to continue.

An absolutely beautiful design and exceptional execution. 
I think the challenge to produce something that outstanding is what makes and keeps this hobby so stimulating.

Mike


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## Randy_ (Feb 19, 2005)

Outstanding job, Bruce.  Deffinitely a piece of art!!


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## Deere41h (Feb 19, 2005)

I am awestruck.  I have never seen a pen so nice.  That is _<b>BEAUTIFUL</b>_.  I can't imagine ever being able to do something that nice.  You have a wonderful creative ability.  WOW


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## dougle40 (Feb 19, 2005)

Absolutely beautiful pen Bruce !!!  WOW!!!


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## timdaleiden (Feb 19, 2005)

Awesome pen Bruce. Just wonderful. [] Gotta love it.


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## Tom McMillan (Feb 19, 2005)

AWESOME!!!!!!!!  That is a PEN!!!!!!!  I'm sure you'll have no problem marketing that one!!!  Hmmmmmm---gonna have time to make pens and rings???  Any apprenticeships available---I'm only 59 years young and lots of good years left in me!!


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## Fleabit (Feb 19, 2005)

Ok.  Here Goes.  Sure wish I had the type of talent.  Awesome job.  I think the pen came out perfect.  I have done some small metal work and it can be a royal pain.  You did outstanding!


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## woodscavenger (Feb 19, 2005)

Bruce, that is amazing.  Didn't you say in one of your post a while back that your system was bought for a mere $750K?  I am saving pennies starting today!  
Your pen is great! I actually like the idea of keeping the black section.  It would be cool in titanium but I would still anoxize it a diffent color.  The anodization would also give a little tooth to the grip section and would probably make writing a little more comfortable.  
I think you could definitely add this to the upscale market but you would need to upgrade nibs.  A lot of fountain pen connisuers (?sp) rank their pens on the nib.It looks like the previous linked web site pen maker uses custom made nibs.  They are beautiful.  There is a site http://www.nibs.com/ that shows many different upgrade nibs.  The reason we can't use them in our pen kits I think are the custom thread sizes and diameters.  That is obviously not a problem for you.  You may be able to contact this guy for some fancy nibs which would increase the percieved value of you pens.
Based on you pen shape...which is great, I would probably advertized the pen as a non-posting pen.  Then you would never have the issue of scuffing the pen.
Keep up the good work! And thanks for sharing your time and inventiveness with us.
BTW how easy would it be to create a clip from titanium that is like the cigar pen clip but instead of the open ring at the top, have just a flat piece only as wide as the clip?


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## woodscavenger (Feb 19, 2005)

Bruce I just looked at you website.  You have some great stuff.  Based on the rings you have there I can see a bunch of design variations coming out of your newest creation.  Looking forward to seeing more.


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## btboone (Feb 19, 2005)

I appreciate the kudos guys.  Tom, I can sure use an apprentice, but it sounds like the commute might be a tough one!  []

Woodscavenger, no, my lathe was around $65K.  The laser at GT bikes cost them the $750K.  It was a huge machine with awesome productivity.  I will need to do more homework on the nibs.  Thanks for the heads up on the contact there.  

The clip as you describe would actually be pretty tough.  Titanium is so inert that solder doesn't stick to it.  The wire could possibly be squashed to make a flat surface, but I don't think that will be good enough.  I bet on a cigar pen that there would be room to stick a wireform like this through without interfering with the nib.  As you see, I went way to the outside, which seated in solid metal.  It would be very tough drilling the holes on such a slope even in wood without anything less than a milling machine and a stubby endmill though.  Normal drills will deflect when it hits that angled of a surface.


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## woodpens (Feb 19, 2005)

I would say that fountain jumped right up to first place in all the pens I have seen produced by people in our group. How do you say, "Welcome to the Pen Makers Guild?" [] Actually, I have no input on that, but I am very confident that your fountain pen will fling that door open if you submit it to the guild.

Marketing and pricing are topics I find interesting. I would consider writing an article (in all of your spare time) and submitting it with this pen to Pen World or another such magazine. Then, set this one at the $1,000 to $1,500 range along with maybe a half dozen others in the $300 to $800 range. You'll have customers drool over the best one and settle for the others, and one of those customers will simply buy the best. If it is published, stating that fact on the webpage will make for a quicker sale. I found that to be true when several of us had pens shown in the American Woodturner magazine. Customers were eager to snap them up and also wanted a copy of the magazine.

Keep up the great work, Bruce. I wish you were closer to my location so I could learn from you. []


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## btboone (Feb 19, 2005)

I find that funny, because I need to learn more of this pen stuff from you guys!  I can design and make things that are new and different, but I don't yet really know the market and the wants of the customers.  Maybe that works to my advantage because I'm not boxed in by "how it's supposed to be done."  I will work on my mid range $300 to $800 pens like you suggest Jim.  If you or anyone wants to make the drive to Atlanta, you're welcome to come by.


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## Tom McMillan (Feb 19, 2005)

Well, Bruce, I must say---you do nice work---and, wow---looks like we're learning from you!!  And thanks for the thought of the apprenticeship---but, guess I'll have to stay put---darn!!!  Can't really afford a jet right now.  I agree with Jim---that's "Guild quality" and hope you'll submit something too.


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## darbytee (Feb 19, 2005)

Bruce, I know it's starting to get redundant, but that is a gorgeous pen. My wife has her bachelor's in metal design and she has been ooing and aahing over it for the last 15 minutes. Absolutely gorgeous.


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## ldimick (Feb 19, 2005)

This is a fine pen! JUst one thought - How would it look on a chrome Baron?


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## btboone (Feb 19, 2005)

Here's a picture of it capped.


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## btboone (Feb 19, 2005)

And here's a picture of it posted.


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## btboone (Feb 19, 2005)

For a Baron, a design that showed off the hex theme would serve better.  Something like twisted hex stock that tapers.  Hmmmmm....


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## Gary (Feb 19, 2005)

That is VERY nice!


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## Scottydont (Feb 19, 2005)

Absotivelyposilutely gorgeous Bruce! A work of art. Thanks for posting.


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## mike_l (Feb 19, 2005)

I am in awe. I wouldn't even know where to start on something like that.  Way to "think outside the box."  That pen is art.

Mike L


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## Jake Byrd (Feb 19, 2005)

Bruce...I am not worthy!! That has got to be one of THE best pens I have even seen in my like. $1,500 no doubt.  Forget rings, you should be turning the titanium pens full time!  Look out Area 51! How did you turn it?  How did you do it without a kit?

Thanks for sharing,
Jake


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## Jake Byrd (Feb 19, 2005)

Oh, Bruce, do you think you could post a couple pictures of your shop and lathe for us?

Thanks a lot,
Jake


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## opfoto (Feb 19, 2005)

Wow, Beautiful. Wonderful job.


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## Paul in OKC (Feb 19, 2005)

Bruce, that is one sweet pen.


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## btboone (Feb 19, 2005)

Thanks guys. []  Jake, I need to take a few pics of the shop and the lathe.  I was thinking that as I was drilling the holes, and coolant was blasting like Niagara Falls, but I was too nervous to leave the machine while it ran for the first time.  

Here's the detailed version of how I made it:
I started with the pen cap and turned it cantilevered out of the spindle from 5/8" solid titanium stock.  I had to dial in speeds and feeds to keep it from hitting a resonance and making chatter marks on the outside.  I parted it off, so now I have a nicely turned surface that is curved and can't be clamped on.  

I made a special collet that had the inside bore that matched the outside of the surface.  I tried one out of plastic, but found that the hydraulic chuck squashed it out of shape when it was drilled out.  I made another in aluminum and milled some lines to divide the collet into 3 jaws.  The collet was made with a 1" outside diameter to match the bore of my chuck jaws.  Since the pen cap goes over center a little bit and starts curving back inward, I realized that it would be tough to get the part in and out of the stiff collet, so I added a threaded hole to the bottom so I could put in a bolt and use that to jack the part out of the collet after it was drilled.  I used a milling vise to push the part into the collet at the start.  It was snug as a bug when the part was in the collet and because the curve precisely match the outside curve of the collet, I wasn't worried about the hydraulic chuck jaws clamping down on the collet and crushing the part.  

I drilled a double hole and bored a little bit of a taper on the inside of the cap that matched the pen body.  When the turned part was complete, I chucked the part in my milling vise to drill the holes for the clip.  I made a plastic nosecone for the pointy part so I wouldn't crush it while champing the part in the front to back orientation.  I used a tiny endmill to drill the holes for the clip using XY coordinates for location.  I had to be extremely careful because the clip holes are way on the rounded outside of the part and would easily deflect and snap the small endmill.

I made a plastic mandrel for the clip on my machining center.  This gave the theoretical elliptical curve that I was shooting for.  Since the titanium wire I used for the clip was so springy, I couldn't simply bend the metal to the mandrel, but had to overbend it by quite a bit in order to hold the shape.  I could bend it by hand and used needlenosed pliers to bend it.  I used the mandrel to check my progress.

I cleaned up the surface and anodized the clip in a homemade anodizer.  I increased the voltage from around 26 volts to around 40 volts while pulling the clip out of the bath.  This made the anodized color fade.

The main body was a bit more challenging to make.  I first drilled the stock with two very deep holes while the 5/8" barstock was short in the lathe chuck.  There is an inside step that was bored then too.  I tapped the threads for the nib by hand.  I then pulled the bar out to full length and brought in my tailstock.  I turned the outside of the part leaving it attached by a 1/8" stalk at the tip end.  I snapped the finish turned part off by hand and had to hand grind the tip to the normal point.

The mokume material was slit to proper width and rolled by hand around a metal piece to the approximate diameter needed.  I sheared it to length and proceeded to hammer it into the undercut groove.  The part was soldered with as small a seam as possible and any remaining stock was hammered to as low a position as possible.  The Mokume was hand ground down to flush with sanding discs.  The pen was then hand finished with fine sanding discs and micromesh until around an 8000 grit.  I then polished it out with hard cotton buffs and a large buffing wheel.  Assembly consisted of pressing in the clip and screwing in the nib.


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## Fred in NC (Feb 19, 2005)

Bruce, how long would it take to make a second identical one ?
That would be actual one unit production time.


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## DCBluesman (Feb 19, 2005)

What a story!  I wonder where I stashed that $65 grand and what portion of my brain houses the ability to reproduce, much less design such a pen.  The market for this pen is small but VERY sweet.  Folks that have the dough for it don't think twice.  I'm thinking it needs to be in an airline magazine.  Get those busy execs. Or better yet, let me market it for you!


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## btboone (Feb 19, 2005)

Lou, if you think you have a market for it (them), we can talk.  Fred, to do it from scratch with the programs written and fixtures working and the benefit of hindsight, maybe a few hours.  The mokume was the toughest part.  I'm assuming that part can be changed to something else like the slots I want to do.  This also assumes some multitasking.  I'm still not sure if the Morse Taper fit is the ultimate answer for the cap, but I sure like not having any threads.  Maybe there's a way to sneak in some 5 start threads or something where it doesn't take from the design so much.


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## melogic (Feb 19, 2005)

Bruce,
That is in the truest since of the word "Art". I am proud to say that I am a member of the same organization of the person that created this fine work of art.


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## woodscavenger (Feb 19, 2005)

"The main body was a bit more challenging to make."  [:0]LOL.   Bruce says this after a half page dialogue on making custom fixture and such for the top! Amazing.  

I had a question.  I understand the difficulty of drilling a couple of hole in the round penstock to fit the custom wire clip, but on pen blanks mine start square. Wouldn't I be able to predrill the holes for the clip before rounding it on my mandrel?  Where could I find some of that wire?  Are there any other wires (titanium or other metals) that have a nice spring to them that would lend themselves to making custom clips?


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## Gregory Huey (Feb 19, 2005)

Bruce
I am very sorry to tell you but your pen WILL NOT win the ugly pen contest.


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## btboone (Feb 20, 2005)

Woodscavenger, that's a great idea.  The trick there would be to be sure that the measured hole coordinates were actually in the center of the turned stock (not necessarily the rough stock) like they should be since any runout would make them offcenter to the part.

I used .050" titanium wire from www.smallparts.com  They are around $8 for 3 feet of it.  Stainless steel wire should work as well.  There are some thin welding rods that could possibly work of the raw wire could not be found.  I'd suggest McMaster Carr or MSC as possible sources for that.  

Mark, Thanks for the kind words.

The more challenging part of making the main pen body is that my lathe is very tight on space, and I found that my coolant nozzle of the outside turning tool will hit the the tailstock when the part is turned.  I also learned that it's a bad idea to have a $70 drill sticking out in the next tool slot over when turning the thin part of the pen body.  Doh!  It whacked right into the side of the rotating chuck.  That didn't occur to me because I turn my rings with it riding there all the time and it never hits.  Comes close enough that you can't watch, but never hits.


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## btboone (Feb 20, 2005)

Gregory, I think some of my early attempts at the puzzle pen might very well win the ugly pen contest.  The polyester never did completely set down in those grooves.  Not a pretty sight.


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## Guest (Feb 20, 2005)

Bruce, 

 I gotta tell you. I loved the first photo I saw of this pen. It was unique, a tough material to work with, and a one of a kind creation. Great photo too. 

  Having seen the capped and posted photo's though, I have to pull back, ever so slightly. 

  With the cap posted, it still looks fine. Unique, refined, and the shape flows. 

  When the pen is capped however, it seems less sleek. A great technical achievement...without a doubt. When it is capped, something just isn't quite right. 

  This is just one person's opinion though, so take it for what it is worth, I am the pen critic.

  If anyone would like a private critique, you can e-mail me through the forum, or directly at...   PenCritic@aol.com

  Best wishes to all. 

  The Pen Critic


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## btboone (Feb 20, 2005)

Good call.  I originally had the cap about 1/8" shorter which looked quite a bit better in my opinion.  I found that I had drawn the nib from a top view but not from a side view to get my inside dimensions.  I needed to move things out a bit when I saw how far offcenter the nib is in relation to the centerline of the pen.  It doesn't flow quite as I intended in the capped position, but I had to work the shape to best fit both ends OK.  It's actually quite tough to get geometry that looks dialed from both sides and can still post.  I wanted the overriding design element to be the smooth flowing body when the cap was off.


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## woodscavenger (Feb 20, 2005)

That is why I think you should make a pen that does not post.  You could create a little desk set like I have seen on this site with a wood base, a little pedestal for the pen to lay on when cappped and not in use, and a post )from wood or titanium) for the user to put the cap on while writing.  With most of my fountain pens they become a little unweildy with the cap on so I end up holding it in my other hand or placing it on the desk anyway.  Go for the non-post type.  Just my vocal humble opinion.  While you're at it, you could send me the prototype for testing!  []


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## btboone (Feb 20, 2005)

Great ideas woodscavenger.  I need to see what's possible.  Obviously, having a metal pen to begin with is heavier than most, so it does make sense to not have to post.  It could free up the design a bit more.  I had a heck of a time getting a shape that worked on both ends.  What about the clip in that case?  Do those types of pens go without clips?

Hmm.  I'm thinking of a one piece titanium stand, maybe 1 1/4" diameter with a trumpet bell shape that necks up to around a half inch wide at the top which would be around 1 1/4" tall.  The pen could stand up in the base (nib end up) when not in use, and it could be used to hold the cap as well.  Is storing the pen upright like that OK to do?  Anything to watch for or be aware of?


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## RussFairfield (Feb 20, 2005)

The pen is beautiful and worth a high price, but the nib will limit its value. That is always the limiting factor when we use a nib from a kit. I hav yet to find a fountain pen person who is willing to put out big money for a pen with a $5 plated steel nib, regardless of how good it looked. Anybody paying a high price for a pen will demand an 18K gold alloy nib to match the quality of the pen. They are available, but will probably have to be modified to fit. 

This one is worth that extra effort.


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## btboone (Feb 20, 2005)

Russ, I wonder if it's best to offer the customer the choice of nibs for a pen like this or pick a nice one myself.  What do you think?  It's all new to me.


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## RussFairfield (Feb 20, 2005)

The selection may have to be yours because you are going to be somewhat limited by what will fit or can be modified to fit. You should start with a call to Jim at Berea. Besides being the owner of Berea, he is a fountain pen collector. He will know what will fit, and he may know a good source; or he may have something to offer.


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## DCBluesman (Feb 20, 2005)

And please share what info you gather, Bruce.  I'm looking at custom nibs, even if it means doing my own tap and die work.  Mike_O (Mike O'Brien) can probably help.  He collects and repairs fountain pens.


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## JimGo (Feb 20, 2005)

Bruce, did you say that you will make one for each of us for free?   That looks AMAZING!  Great job!


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## btboone (Feb 20, 2005)

Thanks Jim!  Hmmmm.  Did I say that!? [:O]


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## woodscavenger (Feb 20, 2005)

I think you should keep a clip on it.  It's much like the gentlemen pens that have the tapered back end that will not accept the cap.  But people will still want to carry it in a pocket.  

BTW I am also interested in what people find out about better nibs.  I agree, that is what keeps us out of the pricier market.


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## woodscavenger (Feb 20, 2005)

DIBS!!!  I am officially calling dibs on Bruce for the next pen in hat competition.......man I've always wanted a custom titanium pen.....[][][][][]


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## C. Scott (Feb 21, 2005)

I'm speechless.  Thanks for sharing Bruce!  I have to agree, that's a $1k pen if I ever saw one.  Think about it, one of a kind, hand made (not cranked out of a factory), not to mention beautiful!  Did I say I was speechless, well I guess I found some words. []


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## J. Fred Muggs (Feb 21, 2005)

What can I say that has not already been said??  The pen is absolutely <h1><b>MAGNIFICENT !!!</b></h1>
I am not too far away in upstate South Carolina and would be happy to serve as your beta test site for pens of this style.[][][]


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## btboone (Feb 21, 2005)

Fred, I rough designed up my next one last night.  It should be an eye opener.  Now if I can only get a chance to work on it...


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## woodscavenger (Feb 21, 2005)

The new one should be an eye opener????  Bruce if that first one didn't do it for us then I don't know what it would take to get everyones attention.  Looking forward to it......


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## PenWorks (Mar 4, 2005)

Sorry I missed all the excitement [] This was posted while I was in LA at the Pen show. I wish I would have had your pen there to SELL, we both could have made some money []

I have read all the posts, and nothing more to be said, except to add my kudos for a wonderfull design and workmanship, a stellar performance [] A great addition to the Pen Makers Guild Masterpieces. [:I]

Anthony


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## btboone (Mar 4, 2005)

Thanks Anthony.  If you think you have a market for it, we can talk. []


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## rtgleck (Mar 4, 2005)

As all the others have said that is a truley fantastic looking pen and is going to make someone a very happy owner.  Whether that be your self or if you decide to sell it.  Truley a great looking pen.


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## Tropical (Mar 5, 2005)

Wow.  Absolutely fantastic.  Can't help you on the price but whatever you decide it will worth every penny.


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