# first "mostly" successful section



## MartinPens (Oct 19, 2012)

Section for #5 Bock feed. Still need a little more length to support the converter. This stuff is stinkin fun. A whole new admiration for all those who are making and posting custom kitless pens. Turn and learn!


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## MartinPens (Oct 19, 2012)

Sorry for the honkin' large pic there. I did this from my phone for the first time. I guess I need to figure out how to minimize the photo when uploading from the phone. Moderators, your forgiveness please. : )


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## Dalecamino (Oct 20, 2012)

Good start. I'm glad to see you take the plunge. It gets better.


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## Jim Burr (Oct 20, 2012)

Stinker!!! Still waiting on stuff, but since there is a M10x1 tap out there....going to work on that. Nice effort sir, what did you make that one from and...what's next!?


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## Texatdurango (Oct 20, 2012)

Yes it IS fun!  God start, looking forward to seeing more and perhaps a pen to stick on the end of a section!


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## MartinPens (Oct 21, 2012)

dalecamino said:


> Good start. I'm glad to see you take the plunge. It gets better.



It's starting to sink in. I look forward to getting out there in the workshop. This really opens up so many new possibilities.

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## MartinPens (Oct 21, 2012)

Jim Burr said:


> Stinker!!! Still waiting on stuff, but since there is a M10x1 tap out there....going to work on that. Nice effort sir, what did you make that one from and...what's next!?



Jim,

No worries. I won't be that far ahead of you and the learning curve levels out quite quickly once you dive in. Kind of like listening to Shakespeare, it takes time for the right brained mind to warp over. Plus, we have a practically endless supply of help here on the forum!  : )

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## MartinPens (Oct 21, 2012)

Texatdurango said:


> Yes it IS fun!  God start, looking forward to seeing more and perhaps a pen to stick on the end of a section!



Thanks George!
Appreciate your time and efforts to communicate. I'm going to stick with sections for now. It seems like the trickiest part to perfect.

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## Andrew_K99 (Oct 21, 2012)

MartinPens said:


> Texatdurango said:
> 
> 
> > Yes it IS fun!  God start, looking forward to seeing more and perhaps a pen to stick on the end of a section!
> ...


I'm just starting out with kitless (1st pen was completed last night!, will post pictures soon).  IMO the cap was more difficult than the section.  The cap I ended up making was threaded M12x.75 for the body and M9x.75 for the finial (therefor step drilled) and had a clip.  The section was pretty straight forward once I figured out the steps to do the drilling.  Lots of fun regardless!

AK


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## Texatdurango (Oct 21, 2012)

Andrew_K99 said:


> .....
> I'm just starting out with kitless (1st pen was completed last night!, will post pictures soon).  IMO the cap was more difficult than the section.  The cap I ended up making was threaded M12x.75 for the body and M9x.75 for the finial *(therefor step drilled)* and had a clip.  The section was pretty straight forward once I figured out the steps to do the drilling.  Lots of fun regardless!
> 
> AK


Martin, Hope you don't mind but this might be of use to someone.  

Andrew, just something to think about.  While you were step drilling did you provide a step or "stop" for the section to prevent the lower body from screwing into the cap too deep? 

I learned that it isn't a good idea to allow the threads themselves to stop the threading action so I never allow the threads to stop the body from threading into the cap, I provide a positive stop so when screwing the body in, it will engage the cap threads THEN hit a solid stop in the cap so there won't be a chance of over-tightening the pen and possibly cracking the cap.

Just something to consider.


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## MartinPens (Oct 21, 2012)

Hmmmm... Thanks George.

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## Andrew_K99 (Oct 21, 2012)

Texatdurango said:


> Andrew_K99 said:
> 
> 
> > .....
> ...


The pen I just made had the cap stop by hitting the body (where the tennon stopped) as such I did not provide a stop for the section in the cap but will certainly consider that for the future.  Thanks a lot for the advice, it probably would have taken quite some time before I realized I needed a stop.

AK


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## Joe S. (Oct 21, 2012)

Great! I hope to get somthing done soon too, but I don't have much shop time this week. Still, it's a fun thing to get into.


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## MartinPens (Oct 21, 2012)

The threads on the inside of the section are frustrating me. And since the feed and feed housing are both round on the #5, I'm getting the feed housing stuck inside the stinking hole and everything is so dang slippery from the Pam spray!  I ruined a feed housing trying to get it out.  I'm done for today. I think I will shift and concentrate on the #6 Bock feed and all the measurements that go with that.

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## jeff (Oct 21, 2012)

MartinPens said:


> Sorry for the honkin' large pic there. I did this from my phone for the first time. I guess I need to figure out how to minimize the photo when uploading from the phone. Moderators, your forgiveness please. : )



That image is just fine! (Maybe I'm seeing this after you replaced it with a smaller image?)


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## Andrew_K99 (Oct 21, 2012)

MartinPens said:


> The threads on the inside of the section are frustrating me. And since the feed and feed housing are both round on the #5, I'm getting the feed housing stuck inside the stinking hole and everything is so dang slippery from the Pam spray!  I ruined a feed housing trying to get it out.  I'm done for today. I think I will shift and concentrate on the #6 Bock feed and all the measurements that go with that.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner



I ruined one too 

I found using the 6.8mm and 7.2mm bits for the feed was not needed and the 6.8mm area was quite tight so I just used 7.2mm for the feed housing, this solved my too tight issue.  I still used 5.8mm (then tapped) to hold the feed and a 6.4mm for the converter seating.  Not sure what bits you're using but if similar to me omit the 6.8mm and see if it helps.

AK


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## Jgrden (Oct 22, 2012)

Say Martin, We are headed into your area today. Mary has a CT appointment at 7:30 a.m. but might be a little early to meet. 
Say, what material did you use to make your section? Maybe that was the surplus stock you were talking about. 
John
909-362-4two93


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## Ed McDonnell (Oct 22, 2012)

MartinPens said:


> The threads on the inside of the section are frustrating me. And since the feed and feed housing are both round on the #5, I'm getting the feed housing stuck inside the stinking hole and everything is so dang slippery from the Pam spray!  I ruined a feed housing trying to get it out.  I'm done for today. I think I will shift and concentrate on the #6 Bock feed and all the measurements that go with that.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner



Hi Martin - I recently ran into same problem with a feed housing stuck in the section.  Couldn't get enough torque with the nib / feed to unscrew the housing.  I put a piece of blue shop rag over a tight fitting transfer punch and inserted them into the housing.  As I twisted the transfer punch the rag would bunch up just enough act like a pin chuck.  I was able to unscrew the housing with no damage.  Might give that a try if you hit the problem again.

Ed


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## BSea (Oct 22, 2012)

MartinPens said:


> The threads on the inside of the section are frustrating me. And since the feed and feed housing are both round on the #5, I'm getting the feed housing stuck inside the stinking hole and everything is so dang slippery from the Pam spray!  I ruined a feed housing trying to get it out.  I'm done for today. I think I will shift and concentrate on the #6 Bock feed and all the measurements that go with that.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner


One thing I do (after ruining a feed housing) is to use a kit nib with the feed & housing.  This keeps it stabilized a bit more.  Then when you are finished replace the cheap nib with a good one.  And I also went to a #6 nib.  Mainly because I think they look better, but they are also a bit easier to work with.  At least for me.


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## Texatdurango (Oct 22, 2012)

Excuse the slight wandering off topic and being a little preachy *BUT.....* If some of you are having problems with the feed housings getting stuck in your sections where it is taking so much force threading the housing in and out, I would rethink the size holes you are drilling!  With these small, close tolerance parts and fine threads, SORTA CLOSE isn't good enough, use the proper drills!

To save switching my setups around all the time I usually make a dozen or two sections at once and when it comes time for cutting the threads I hold the section with one hand, the tap handle in the other and hand turn the threads, withdraw the tap, blow out the section and check for any "stringies" hanging on then thread a new feed and housing in...... all without forcing anything and threading the housings in with my fingertips!

When a pen leaves my hands I want it to be useable by anyone not just look good.  In my mind an eighty year old great grandmother with arthritis should be able to disassemble the feed, housing and section from the pen body to periodically clean her pen without the need for pliers or vice grips!


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## Ed McDonnell (Oct 22, 2012)

Texatdurango said:


> Excuse the slight wandering off topic and being a little preachy *BUT.....* If some of you are having problems with the feed housings getting stuck in your sections where it is taking so much force threading the housing in and out, I would rethink the size holes you are drilling!  With these small, close tolerance parts and fine threads, SORTA CLOSE isn't good enough, use the proper drills!
> 
> To save switching my setups around all the time I usually make a dozen or two sections at once and when it comes time for cutting the threads I hold the section with one hand, the tap handle in the other and hand turn the threads, withdraw the tap, blow out the section and check for any "stringies" hanging on then thread a new feed and housing in...... all without forcing anything and threading the housings in with my fingertips!
> 
> When a pen leaves my hands I want it to be useable by anyone not just look good.  In my mind an eighty year old great grandmother with arthritis should be able to disassemble the feed, housing and section from the pen body to periodically clean her pen without the need for pliers or vice grips!



Here's the thing.  I measure carefully.  I use the right size drill bit based on my measurements.  I drill the the correct depths with what I believe to be the correct size drill bits as precisely as I can.  But you know what?  I still screw up from time to time.  It's part of my learning process.  :biggrin:  

Sure, I could just post a "what size drill bit is best for a XXX" question, but where's the challenge in that?  The downside of trying to figure it out myself as I go is that sometimes I also have to figure out ways to recover from not having done it quite right.  It's all part of the fun of doing something new for me.  At this point I'm a long way from an 80 year great grandma (or anybody else) getting their hands on one of my custom pens.  But should I ever get to that point, your points on usability are spot on.  

You touched on a couple of other things that I've been wondering about.  

Is a separate housing necessary?  It would be easy enough to design the section to take the nib and feed directly without the need for a housing.  With a design that doesn't use a cartridge / converter I can't think of any downsides to eliminating the housing from the design.  Am I missing something?

For a pen that does have a housing in the design, is it really necessary to be able to remove the housing for routine maintenance?  It seems to me that cleaning the housing while in the section would be just as easy as cleaning it out of the section.  And while out of the section, it's just one more loose piece that can be lost / damaged.  I've been wondering if I should use a little shellac on the housing threads to "lock" it in the section.  It could be removed for repairs if needed, but it wouldn't be removed for routine maintenance.  

What do you think?

Ed


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## BSea (Oct 23, 2012)

Texatdurango said:


> Excuse the slight wandering off topic and being a little preachy *BUT.....* If some of you are having problems with the feed housings getting stuck in your sections where it is taking so much force threading the housing in and out, I would rethink the size holes you are drilling!  With these small, close tolerance parts and fine threads, SORTA CLOSE isn't good enough, use the proper drills!


 You're right, and I did adjust slightly after breaking the feed.  It's all part of the learning curve.  At least it has been for me.  My point with using a cheap nib is that it provides a little stability so that maybe someone else will avoid breaking a feed like Martin & I did.  But once someone has their system worked out, it shouldn't be necessary.  But remember, most of us don't have the experience you have, let alone a system yet.  Knowing how loose or tight a feed should be in a section is all a matter of experience.  And we're learning as we go.  Frankly, I think breaking a few parts along the way is just going to happen early on.



Texatdurango said:


> When a pen leaves my hands I want it to be useable by anyone not just look good.  In my mind an eighty year old great grandmother with arthritis should be able to disassemble the feed, housing and section from the pen body to periodically clean her pen without the need for pliers or vice grips!


I agree.  Probably why non of my kitless pen have been sold.

EDIT:  Don't worry about being _*PREACHY*_.  I've gotten tons of tips from your "Preachings"


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## Gilrock (Oct 23, 2012)

I've only done a handful of sections but what I've found is when mine were tight it was because I didn't drill quite far enough in so when I screwed in the housing I forced it that extra half turn.  Now I like to drill the hole and then test out the housing without forcing it.  If it bottoms out before hitting the section then I note how short it is and then drill that much further in and test the housing again.  If you are able to seat the housing without much force it should be fairly easy to get it back out.


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