# I think I confused myself even further...



## Josh Gertz (Apr 24, 2009)

Over the last few days I have been looking over all of the information here in the forums and I think I confused myself even further.

I am trying to plan out all of the stuff I am going to need to buy to get started...right now I have nothing but an empty garage. (Well there is some boxes of holiday decorations but for the most part its empty)

Right now I am thinking I will just grab the starter kit with the VS Lathe from PSI. Then grab a scroll saw and drill press from HF on the cheap until I can afford to upgrade.

Im just curious now if this is a good way to go?

I can already see some problems. I will likely want to get the buffing set up for the lathe as well, I can grab that from PSI. The blank holder press for the drill press...PSI too.

Ohhh and a workbench...there is a 40" workbench Oak from HF for $120.

...the more I look the more I want and I think what I need and what I want is getting mixed up the more I look at other posts.

For instance, I could buy pre-drilled blanks and not worry about the drill press for now, it saves me about $100 from HF but I would likely spend that much more buying blanks that are pre-drilled.

Then I found a few posts on using your drill press as a lathe...or vice versa...again I am just confusing myself the more I research...

-Josh


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## keithkarl2007 (Apr 24, 2009)

i don't think you'd need a scrollsaw straight away unless your going to jump straight into segmenting. We always seem to use our wallets readily. Have a browse around for jigs you can make yourself to aid in drilling blanks and assembling your finished pens. I've seen various methods which work well and will make do until you wish to change. With economic situations as they are start out with the basics and as you sell some of your wares you can put it towards something you really need


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## Josh Gertz (Apr 24, 2009)

keithkarl2007 said:


> i don't think you'd need a scrollsaw straight away unless your going to jump straight into segmenting. We always seem to use our wallets readily. Have a browse around for jigs you can make yourself to aid in drilling blanks and assembling your finished pens. I've seen various methods which work well and will make do until you wish to change. With economic situations as they are start out with the basics and as you sell some of your wares you can put it towards something you really need



Well I put it on there since I would likely try segmenting at some point and I dont have another way to cut the blanks into a top and bottom half right now.

Maybe I just like tools...its funny that I dont really own any yet though.

-Josh


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## alphageek (Apr 24, 2009)

My 2 cents... Start small build up... If you know you want pens as a primary thing..
- Skill the scroll saw for now... MANY better ways to spend your money up front.  You can cut pen blanks with a miter saw (hand or power) very easily.
-  IMO skip the drill press & holder... lookup drilling on the lathe here.. MUCH MORE ACCURATE than a cheap drill press and other advantages.
- ALSO IMO skip the buffing setup to start - get turning, try CA/BLO for wood or micromesh for acrylic.

As for the lathe kit... not a bad start (I'm a jet guy.. but)...   Then you can come here for much of the other things you'll need


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## keithkarl2007 (Apr 24, 2009)

well i'd get a bandsaw before i got a scrollsaw, that way if you got larger blanks you could cut them into pen blanks


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## Josh Gertz (Apr 24, 2009)

alphageek said:


> My 2 cents... Start small build up... If you know you want pens as a primary thing..
> - Skill the scroll saw for now... MANY better ways to spend your money up front.  You can cut pen blanks with a miter saw (hand or power) very easily.
> -  IMO skip the drill press & holder... lookup drilling on the lathe here.. MUCH MORE ACCURATE than a cheap drill press and other advantages.
> - ALSO IMO skip the buffing setup to start - get turning, try CA/BLO for wood or micromesh for acrylic.
> ...



Now that I think about it I think I have an old Exacto Saw with the aluminum miter kit. Ill have to go digging but either way I can probably get this for about $20 rather than the $100 for the HF scroll saw.

Ill search for the lathe drilling.

Thanks for the finishing advice. Ill look into this as well, I haven't really gotten into finishing yet but its next on my list of topics to research.



keithkarl2007 said:


> well i'd get a bandsaw before i got a scrollsaw, that way if you got larger blanks you could cut them into pen blanks



Ill take a look into this as well.

Thanks both of you for the advice


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## mostangrypirate (Apr 24, 2009)

band saw B-4 scroll saw, but even a miter would do. Many on here have had quality isues with PSI and I would be wary of getting a lathe from them. not many bad things said about Jet, and if you look real hard you can find a good deal on one. Got mine for 300$$. would tell ya where if I could remember. I "made do" with really bad equipment for a very long time. It can be done, but there will be times when you are feeling homosidel. If there is one thing to really focus your financial attentions in the begining...it is the lathe. Spend everything on the lathe first, ask yourself if you know anyone with a few of the tools you need, and wether you could cruz over and use them for an hour here and there. Buy the rest as you go.


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## titan2 (Apr 24, 2009)

Remember, you'll need to sharpen your turning tools soon enough. Get yourself a slow speed grinder with a Wolverine jig and you should be all set. I went and jumped in with both feet and got the JET Slow Speed Wet Sharpener with most of the attachments........you don't have to go that far!!! But, you will need to keep your tools sharp!!!

Good luck & welcome to the madness!!!!


Barney

P.S.

Here's some links:

8” Slow-Speed Grinder
http://www.woodcraft.com/product.aspx?ProductID=144290&FamilyID=4605

Wolverine Grinding Jig
http://www.woodcraft.com/product.aspx?ProductID=125676&FamilyID=1998


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## mickr (Apr 24, 2009)

a good miterbox will do all the cutting you need..heck a good japanese saw would do it too...drill on the lathe of your choice..don't HAVE to have buffing stuff..just get the basics(you get what you pay for here) and LEARN TO USE THEM..as you learn you will know what you need


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## kevinbrown22 (Apr 24, 2009)

I'm a NOOB and shouldn't have a opinion about most of the questions you asked, but I wouldn't suggest the HF drill press. DAMHIK but drill on the lathe until you can afford a decent drill press.


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## brianp (Apr 24, 2009)

If you buy a lathe with a starting kit make sure that the tools it comes with are made with high speed steel.  You dont want to overlook quality when it comes to the tools.


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## GouletPens (Apr 24, 2009)

Don't bank all of your pens on pre-drilled blanks. They're limited in style and coloring, and you'll very soon be sick of being limited to them. Drilling on the lathe is a good option, though you can spend as much on the tools to be able to do that as you would on a drill press, and a drill press is much faster (though can be less accurate). 

My father always said, save up and buy the best you can afford. Don't buy cheap stuff intending to replace it, because you'll either have to compensate for its inadequacies or worse not be able to achieve the level of performance you desire, and quit. You will need a good mini lathe, something to drill holes, something to cut wood (even a handsaw will work, to start!), a barrel trimmer, so good HHS turning tools (1/4 spindle gouge and a skew really would be all to start!) and something to press the finished pens together, you can even to that on the lathe. You'd be amazed how little it takes to make a pen, though if you want to make them fast and fancy, that's when you start to go broke.


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## its_virgil (Apr 24, 2009)

Opinions from anyone are welcome. We all have them. I don't disagree with very many comments but  once again I will  disagree with negative comments on Harbor Freight tools.  True, not all of what HF sells is top quality and would not hold up to 24-7 use, but I have two HF tools that I love and am totally happy with my purchase of them. One is, you guessed it, a HF drill press and the other, right again, is the HF band saw. I did a LOT of looking at other popular brands of both and the one thing I noticed is how much they all look alike, except and good quality blades. No special tuning was needed for the drill press. Both of these tools perform flawlessly and I had more $$$ to spend on other tooling. If one had to go it would be the drill press because I can drill on the lathe. In fact, with precise drilling is needed for special blanks, the lathe is the tool of choice for me and several others. 
Do a good turn daily!
Don




kevinbrown22 said:


> I'm a NOOB and shouldn't have a opinion about most of the questions you asked, but I wouldn't suggest the HF drill press. DAMHIK but drill on the lathe until you can afford a decent drill press.


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## bitshird (Apr 24, 2009)

Re: drilling on a lathe, The two items no one has mentioned are 1 a chuck for your lathe, (barracuda is a good one to start with) I got mine on eBay same chuck as PSI but a lot cheaper, and 2 a Drill chuck on a #2 morse taper for the tail stock on your PSI Lathe. This gentleman is an IAP member and a great fellow to deal with, as well as top quality reasonable tools http://www.penturnersproducts.com. I agree though you'd be better with out the scroll saw to begin with, a bandsaw is far more useful.


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## Pocono Bill (Apr 24, 2009)

In my second go-round with woodturning (the first was on a Shopsmith and we won't count that) I invested in a Jet Mini.  If the PSI unit you are considering is the pen turning lathe, I would pause and think about it.  You would be amazed at the number of other projects that can be made on a mini-lathe other than pens.  I now turn on a Oneway 1224, but that Jet is still available in my shop.  Invest in a few GOOD tools for now, add more later.  You can drill on a lathe although a good chuck (I like the Talon) will set you back as much as a cheap drill press.  My first pens were assembled with a bench vice.

If you work with acrylic go with the small sanding pads and you won't need buffing equipment.  Final advice, for starters buy inexpensive kits and blanks until you get the feel of turning.  You can impress your friends with your new hobby (career, profession) and then move up to fancier, read $$$, pen components and exotic woods when you feel you have your skills under control.  One last thing- if there is a woodturners club near you, join: the friendships are great, there are people there with the skills you want to learn, and if it is like our club there is a library of books and videos that circulate to give you more information.


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## GouletPens (Apr 24, 2009)

Pocono Bill said:


> In my second go-round with woodturning (the first was on a Shopsmith and we won't count that) I invested in a Jet Mini. If the PSI unit you are considering is the pen turning lathe, I would pause and think about it. You would be amazed at the number of other projects that can be made on a mini-lathe other than pens. I now turn on a Oneway 1224, but that Jet is still available in my shop. quote]
> Dang...I can only dream of the 1224!! I use the Delta midi and it's been working fine some 500-600 pens later (I lost count). I wouldn't recommend the cheapest lathe, but having one with variable speed is really nice. If you just want to do pens you can pretty much use any of the lathes, but variable speed is really, really nice. I changed out my midi for the PSI VS motor, haven't looked back. Though I'd trade it all in a second for the 1224!!!!!!:RockOn:
> 
> Oh yeah, WHATEVER YOU DO don't get one of those stupid drill press lathe adapters or 'hobby lathes' made for a handheld drill from Grizzly. They are total crap and I think the drill press one is outright dangerous.


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## kenlicciardello (Apr 24, 2009)

mostangrypirate is also mostwisepirate.  Couldn't have said it better myself.  

I had bad experience with 3 powertools at HF and now have jet.  Took 3 years but worth it.  Another tool to add early on is some kind of sharpener.  You can develop some very bad habits trying to adapt to dull tools.

Ken


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## fiferb (Apr 24, 2009)

My only advice is to buy the best quality tools that you can afford no matter where you get them. It's better to buy a better quality for a little more now than to spend money on a tool you know you're going to upgrade later. In the long run it will cost you less and probably reflect in the work you produce.


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## GouletPens (Apr 24, 2009)

btw mostangrypirate......your avatar wakes me up in a cold sweat in the middle of the night. It's just unnatural.


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## thewishman (Apr 24, 2009)

I still use my Stanley yellow plastic miter box - no it's not accurate but close enough for $14.95. I used oil stones to sharpen for more than a year and a half - $8.00. Get a nice lathe and chuck, buy nice equipment when you can afford it. HF turning tools are High Speed Steel and work very well. My chest freezer and an old desk are my workbenches.

You'll find plenty of things to make the job easier as you get going, there are numerous tools to add as you need them. Start and learn, make sure this is something you like, then make a larger investment. Don't worry - you'll "need" lots of stuff as you get some experience.


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## Josh Gertz (Apr 24, 2009)

Lathe: http://www.amazon.com/1014VSI-10-In...ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1240622841&sr=8-1 *$460*

Turning Tools: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=47066 *$45* ($25 Savings...HSS set to start with)

Sharpening: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=36799 *$10 *($230 Savings!...will use these until I can upgrade to a wheel)

Drill Press: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=44505 *$90*

Table: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=93991 *$120*

Pen Blank Drilling: http://www.pennstateind.com/store/DRILLCENT3.html?mybuyscid=4026108121 *$50*

Mandrel: ?

Chuck: ?

Sawing: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=37022 *$6 *(Found one cheaper...$14 savings)

Barrel Trimming: http://yourdonspens.com/TiNTwistBit.html#Pen_Mills *$15 + shipping* (Thanks Alpha...$15 savings)

Sanding: http://www.pennstateind.com/store/PKFINKIT.html?mybuyscid=4026108121 *$14*

http://www.pennstateind.com/store/PKSPSET5.html?mybuyscid=4026108121 *$23*

Tube Insertion: http://www.pennstateind.com/store/PKTINT.html?mybuyscid=4026108121 *$10*

Assembly Press: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=38183 *$8 *(ThanksAlpha...$36 savings)

Blanks: Prices vary but I will try to get a bulk deal on eBay to start with

Pen Kits: Vary, but will probably start with Slimlines

CA/BLO: Pick it up at a hobby store or Walmart

So Im looking at spending a little over $1000 with no drill, mandrel or chuck yet, Its a bit more than I thought to be honest.

Ill be meeting up with someone to try it out before I buy anything but it seems like something I will end up getting into.


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## Sabaharr (Apr 24, 2009)

I know there are a few casinos around AZ so why not hit the pawn shops for power tools. Lots of good tools end up the, practically new. You can get great deals sometimes. I have gotten some things for 10 cents on the dollar. I agree that you should get good tools to start with instead of make-do. Band saw and drill press are good pawn shop items though. I also got a 14" Grisley band saw at a grage sale, along with its matching table saw. If you have the time shop for the bargains.


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## IPD_Mrs (Apr 24, 2009)

There is a ton of good advise in this thread.  Generally I have been a quality over quantity person myself.  But on theother hand you are just getting started so this may get boring to you in a couple of months so you could spend a good deal and not use it in short order.  Also if you decide this isn't for you you can always sell the equipment you aquire.  Just remember that it is usually easier to sell good quality equipment and you will have less depriciation on it.  So keep this in mind when you start to make your purchases.

Personally I would start with a VS Jet.  It has standard sizes and there is a ton of add ons you can aquire for it.  A drill press is a good thing to have even if you do not stay in this hobby, but you mentioned segmenting and it is very important to get a good center drill which is a snap on the lathe.  If you do this then an E-32 collet chuck seems to be a good way to go.  Ooooo more confussion! :biggrin:

My best advise is before you make any purchase ask the folks on here what they think.  Is it a good tool/eq?  Is it a good deal?  Does anybody know of any good buys right now or even a used peice of eq at a great buy?  Thanks to folks on here we got a Craftsman 16" drill press with laser sight for $179 brand new.  These are good folks on here and they won't steer you wrong.

PS  Stay clear of that Cav guy.  He is a little too pink for my taste! 

Mike


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## Josh Gertz (Apr 24, 2009)

Another really quick question...

Why Variable Speeds? What is the application of having multiple speeds?

I ask because its an easy $100 savings.

-Josh


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## IPD_Mrs (Apr 24, 2009)

When you are turning a blank most folks like to go at a fast speed, then when it comes to sanding you need to slow it down so that the blank does not heat up.  And if you are going to apply CA then real slow so that it doesn't sling it everywhere.  Buffing works best for me on a high speed.

That silly little dial will save you a tone of time over adjusting belts onto different pullys.  I think I got my $100 worth in the first month.


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## Josh Gertz (Apr 24, 2009)

I just watched a few of the CA Finishing videos and read some of the articles. It seems like variable speed is the way to go.

Does anyone else have any applications for the variable speeds?


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## alphageek (Apr 24, 2009)

OK.. Just to throw a couple more cents in here...
Pen mills -> http://yourdonspens.com/TiNTwistBit.html Daniel sells them for $15 plus shipping (great guy)..

The $50 pen blank drilling... there is ways to do it with something like http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=4852 for starters.... Don't blow the $50 until you're sure you're gonna use a drill press.

I use this for an assembly press: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=38183

And to differ on 2 other points...  1) The only time my lathe isn't running full speed is drilling... I turn, sand and finish at high speed... So to each their own.

2) I agree sharp tools are important, but there is easier ways to start.  That sharpening system may be a tough thing for a beginner.   Harbor freight has a pretty good set of turning tools that you can afford to learn to sharpen with and learn which ones you'd use.   I like really good tools, but I have a $$ gouge that I bought based on someone elses experience, but I'm now almost completely a skew guy.

That being said.. you are going to look at around 5-700 to start still.


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## alphageek (Apr 24, 2009)

Josh Gertz said:


> I just watched a few of the CA Finishing videos and read some of the articles. It seems like variable speed is the way to go.
> 
> Does anyone else have any applications for the variable speeds?



There are almost as many CA methods as turners.   If there is a local IAP person or local chapter near you - a couple of hours with another turner will be worth their weight in gold.   My CA process is different that some others, but thats another thread.


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## Josh Gertz (Apr 24, 2009)

Thanks for the links Alpha...from Green Bay...Packers fan?

I cant believe The Pack is coming here to AZ not once but twice this year...I have to save as much as I can on tools so I can get tickets to both games and break the sea of red with my green and gold 

I think I may have to think a little outside of the box and try to find more affordable alternatives to some of these tools.

Anyone have any cheaper sharpening options and links? I think I can probably shave at least $100 off if there are some waterstone options with maybe an angled roller of some sort.


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## leehljp (Apr 24, 2009)

I also disagree with ALL the HF being trash. I have Fein, Bosch, Makita, DeWalt, PC, Delta and other brand tools, in Japan and in the US. I also have HF DPs and both do great jobs. I have a few other HF tools. I am not a tool snob but I demand accuracy and reliability in the tools I use. I have been able to get those qualities with both of my HF DPs.

AS to drilling on the lathe, the lathe chuck and drill chuck will run you close to the cost of a DP. Plus, if you do not know that much about lathe use, i.e. this is your first lathe, trying to do too much at once can overpower you. I would go with a DP over pre-drilled blanks. I bought about 20 pre-drilled blanks when I started 4+ years ago and still have 14 - 15 blanks somewhere unused.


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## alphageek (Apr 24, 2009)

Josh Gertz said:


> Thanks for the links Alpha...from Green Bay...Packers fan?
> 
> I cant believe The Pack is coming here to AZ not once but twice this year...I have to save as much as I can on tools so I can get tickets to both games and break the sea of red with my green and gold
> 
> ...



 Packers .. Who are they?  JK..  Of course I am.. Just wish we weren't back in the mediocre days that i grew up with.

As for sharpening options.. Not the most popular, but I have a worksharp - which I LOVE.   I got the 3000, but you can get the 2000 for $99.... you can search a bit on here or do some research and you'll see I'm not the only one who likes their WS.


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## Josh Gertz (Apr 24, 2009)

alphageek said:


> Packers .. Who are they?  JK..  Of course I am.. Just wish we weren't back in the mediocre days that i grew up with.
> 
> As for sharpening options.. Not the most popular, but I have a worksharp - which I LOVE.   I got the 3000, but you can get the 2000 for $99.... you can search a bit on here or do some research and you'll see I'm not the only one who likes their WS.



Hey now, losing 7 games by 3 or fewer points because special teams cant tackle a return guy to give the defense good position isnt a bad year. 

I think Ill have to look a little deeper into sharpening...


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## Josh Gertz (Apr 25, 2009)

Any ideas if these would work for sharpening?

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=36799

For $10 and some elbow grease this saves me about $200.


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## jaeger (Apr 25, 2009)

*Just my opinion*

Don't look at this as costing this much to get into pen turning. You are setting up a shop as well.
A lot of the tools you are looking at will have other uses in your shop. 
Also the tools that you acquire will not lose value overnight. If you do decide to upgrade or discontinue a tool, it holds value if you take care of it.

With respect to other opinions, here is where I can save you some money. This is a link to the tool I use to sharpen my chisels. 
http://www.outdoorpros.com/Prod/Lan...arpening-Pad-Coarse/15135/Cat/83?SSAID=204502
6 bucks and my chisels are razor sharp. The first couple times you can use a marker to mark the bevel so you can check your accuracy as you sharpen. You chisels will not get hot or grind away and it takes me 25 seconds to sharpen everything I am going to use on a pen.
As a bonus, I also sharpen my pen mill with the same tool. Try that with a grinder!!!
The trick here is to sharpen up with the blade. Not across the bevel (as much).


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## TBone (Apr 25, 2009)

Use the money for the drill press to buy a chuck and a drill chuck and drill on your lathe. SAves drill press and vise. With the lathe and the ability to drill, you just need to be able to cut the blanks and square the ends. You can insert tubes with a pin punch or the top of a CA bottle. If you really want to buff, you can build a buffer from some wood and an $8 paint roller from the hardware store. You should be able to start turning for a lot less than $1000. Now if you WANT to spend money, then we can share lots of ways to empty your wallet.    :biggrin:


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## nava1uni (Apr 25, 2009)

Make sure that you like turning, before you invest all of your money.  If there is a Rockler or Woodcraft near you go and check out the lathes.  They both have them set up and will let you try them out or help you decide, which you might want to have.  There is a Woodcraft in Chandler and one in Tucson. Woodcraft also has a starter package without the lathe.  But it does have a trimmer set, a vise, pen kits, blanks and a tool bag to keep it. You should also check out Craig's list, garage sales, flea markets for your tools.  I have a Rikon midi lathe and it is easier to change speeds then the Jet, runs smooth and true.  I sharpen my tools on my disc sander and then use a Diamond sharpener to finish them.  I also use a Jool tool for sharpening. Make sure that you include a Dust collector in your tool purchases since you only get ONE set of lungs and wood dust can be dangerous and toxic to them and the health of your family.  Buy your blanks from IAP members, less expensive, great quality and an amazing variety.  Have fun and be safe with these very dangerous fast moving tools.


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## johnnycnc (Apr 25, 2009)

What Cindy said!:biggrin:


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## Glass Scratcher (Apr 25, 2009)

I don't throw my opinions in often...

The HF HHS lathe chisels are a good set of tools.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=47066

I think they are at least comparable to the PSI Benjamins Best tools.  I have 2 of this HF set and 1 of the more expensive and not listed HF HSS tool sets.  The roughing gouges are only 1/4 round and I have reprofiled half of them them to have a swept back (fingernailish) profile.  They work more like a Spindlemaster.  I prefer them to the skew.  I have a few skews, 2-1/2", 3-3/4", 3-1" and Sorby Oval skew and I don't use any of them much.

The best tool is the one you are comfortable with, know how to use, and you will find yourself reaching for most often.

The most important part of your gouge/chisel set is your sharpening system.  The Wolverine system on a slow speed grinder is a good system, there is a similar system by Nova, and there are a few others.  You can buy lesser tools to start, but don't skimp on the sharpening, most peoples problems can be traced back to dull tools.

.


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## Gordon (Apr 25, 2009)

ditto - what Cindy said.

Good luck - have some fun.


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## Josh Gertz (Apr 25, 2009)

Ive actually talked to someone in town that I will be visiting to try it out before I decide for sure if I am going to buy everything. Even after that I wont be buying anything until July when I have a bit of cash coming my way.

Does anyone have any tips on the Mandrel and Chuck? Aside form the drill press its the one area I dont have filled out yet.


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## GouletPens (Apr 26, 2009)

If you are JUST going to do mandrel turning and you plan on getting a drill press, you won't need a chuck. I went without for some time. I bought the Teknatool Supernova 2, a solid chuck for a mini lathe. I do small bowls on it, as well as drilling when I need extra precision (had to buy pin jaws though, which were $50 themselves!). 

The mandrels are all pretty similar, whether you get them from Woodcraft or Arizona Silhouette or Bear Tooth Woods or PSI. Just get the regular mandrel, not the 'adjustable' one. Make sure it fits your lathe (MT#2 for the jet).


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## seawolf (Apr 26, 2009)

Craigslist has great deals every so often. OLDER craftsman tools are a good buy the newer ones are crappy. A good table saw and some jigs makes life a lot easier when doing segmenting work. A work bench made from an old solid core door works well for assembly and smaller tools. Look around a lot of the things you will need hit the trash every day. (dumpster diving can be very rewarding) I have gotten a lot of walnut, black ash, oak, and other wood free. Check other web sites Lumberjocks has a man selling mahogany for $.10 a pound. Shop freugal and then as you get better buy better.
Mark


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## Josh Gertz (Apr 26, 2009)

Thanks for the additional advice

I will likely start with Pens and move up from there. I dont mind spending even $100 a month its just the initial spending that will be big and I want to make sure I get a majority of what I need.

Once I am ready to buy Ill probably hit up the pawn shops that are on my drive home from work and hit up craigs list and ebay as well.


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## Misterturner (Apr 28, 2009)

*My long answer to what can be a complicated question*

I approached starting up the same way that you are. I spent about three weeks reading many posts here to determine what people used and like and the various techniques that were being used and then came up with my own mix.  I really wanted to get started, but wanted to minimize the cost where possible.  

This forum and its many contributors was invaluable to me, so I will take the time to reciprocate by offering my advice and how I solved the same problem you're facing.  By the way, it isn't a problem, but rather just the somewhat puzzling beginning of something you will enjoy for a lifetime!  Whatever you buy, you will someday find something you want or like better to replace it, but buying the best of everything up front can be daunting.

The lathe is the centerpiece of it all in my mind, so I didn't skimp here - I bought a Jet Mini lathe with variable speed and have NO regrets.  The on/off switch failed after 1 year (likely due to my wet fingers), but under the 5-year warranty, Jet quickly replaced the part.  Who gives a 5 year warranty these days?  I made an extremely sturdy stand for it using an ~11" * 4' oak stair tread (sold at Home Depot) and 4"x4" fir posts for the legs/cross pieces and bolted it to the wall in my shop for greater stability (it was already very stable).  If you don't have a saw, such stores will make one or two cuts for you, and you might get them to make a few extra just by asking.

I already had a miter saw and use that to cut my blanks - a hand saw would do if you want to put off a saw purchase (SERIOUSLY).  I INVESTED in a Bealle collet system.  I turn my blanks between centers (at HIGH speed) down to the diameter of one of the collets for this system (usually the 3/4").  If you miss the 3/4" stop, you have to turn down to the 5/8".  I then insert the blank into the collet and drill (at LOW speed) using a drill bit and chuck mounted in the tail stock.  The drill (not rotating) is moved slowly into the blank and if all is lined up, it is extremely precise (MUST have the turned blank inserted straight into the collet).  I use the collet system to hold the barrel trimmer as well.  Although some do this strictly by hand, I usually do it at HIGH speed, stopping just short of hitting the tube, and will then do the rest by hand.

I use the lathe for pen assembly as well.  I used to use the mandrel and bushings to hold the pen body and would press the parts on using a piece of wood between it and the tail stock, which I could slowly turn, but recently came across this ultimate assembly tool, which I now use exclusively and like very much (so I will plug it again): 

http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/s...en_Ultimate_Assembly_Tool___pen_ultimate?Args=

I initially started out with a cheap 3 tool set (gouge, skew and parting tool) from Woodcraft, but much later bought a 6 piece set by Penn State (also cheap), as well as ONE expensive Sorby gouge along the way.  There is no doubt that the Sorby tool is assembled in a better way than the others, but the other tools are all HSS as well and have worked very well for my purposes. Besides the way the tools are inserted into and retained in the handle, I couldn't find a reason to pay the higher price for the more expensive tools.  Those with more experience and/or the true woodturners can probably give you plenty of reasons why the more expensive tools are worth the price (which I wouldn't dispute).  

I can tell you that had I bought the 6 piece Benjamins Best Midi tool set (the Penn State set purchased via Amazon.com) as my first purchase, I wouldn't have needed the other 4 tools.  The 6 piece set duplicates those tools and adds a couple of gouges and a scraper.  The roughing gouge is excellent for taking the square blank down to a cylinder (its all in the name) and the scraper turns out (no pun intended) to be very useful/fast to get the pen blanks down near to their final size, where I then let the skew take over.  I used to do much of this work with the skew and found that it took much longer to do.  And sometimes, all would be going well and it would catch (because I was getting impatient or not paying attention).

As for sharpening, I haven't yet, and have made over 170 pens.  I do hone before making every pen using a medium then fine honing stone.  I'm sure that I would notice a difference were my tools to be truly sharpened, but if/when (likely when) I finally do that it will be using sandpaper on a flat granite surface.  I'm not ready to get into the sharpener business and fear that I would be taking off way more metal than is necessary.

Good luck.

Jason


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## Josh Gertz (Apr 28, 2009)

*Thanks for the detailed reply*

Hey Jason thanks for the detailed nice reply.

Ive adjusted and looked around a bit more and this is what I have so far:

Lathe: http://www.amazon.com/1014VSI-10-Inc...0622841&sr=8-1 *$460*

Turning Tools: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=47066 *$45* ($25 Savings...HSS set to start with)

Sharpening: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=36799 *$10 *($230 Savings!...will use these until I can upgrade to a wheel)

Drill Press: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=44505 *$90*

Table: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=93991 *$120*

Pen Blank Drilling: http://www.pennstateind.com/store/DR...cid=4026108121 *$50*

Mandrel: ?

Chuck: ?

Sawing: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=37022 *$6 *(Found one cheaper...$14 savings)

Barrel Trimming: http://yourdonspens.com/TiNTwistBit.html#Pen_Mills *$15 + shipping* (Thanks Alpha...$15 savings)

Sanding: http://www.pennstateind.com/store/PK...cid=4026108121 *$14*

http://www.pennstateind.com/store/PK...cid=4026108121 *$23*

Tube Insertion: http://www.pennstateind.com/store/PK...cid=4026108121 *$10*

Assembly Press: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=38183 *$8 *(ThanksAlpha...$36 savings)

Blanks: Prices vary but I will try to get a bulk deal on eBay to start with

Pen Kits: Vary, but will probably start with Slimlines

CA/BLO: Pick it up at a hobby store or Walmart

So Im looking at spending around $800 right now but think I can cut it even further. I also want to try and get an air filtration set up as well.

What else can we do to cut costs a bit?

Im looking at drilling on the lathe, so I need to ad gear for that but I am not sure exactly what I need but I know it will cut out the $90 Drill Press and $50 Blank Vice so if it can be done for under $140 it is an upgrade and saves space.

Any thoughts?


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## alphageek (Apr 28, 2009)

What I got for drilling on the lathe:
http://www.woodcraft.com/product.aspx?ProductID=146801&FamilyID=20042
http://www.woodcraft.com/product.aspx?ProductID=146804&FamilyID=20042
and
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=42340

You have alot of options for the first part, but thats what I got.


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## Josh Gertz (Apr 28, 2009)

I caught the drill chuck yesterday but needed to know what else I needed on the other side. It seems like the post you gave is the cheapest option I have been able to find thus far.

Still though, $90 total rather than the cost of the Drill Press and the blank vice is pretty good.

So some other equipment lists I am looking for;

Mandrel-less chuck and end and dust collection.

Also, it seems like there may be a cheaper pen tube insertion tool out there, any ideas?

Thanks for the link Alpha.


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## Glass Scratcher (Apr 28, 2009)

Josh Gertz said:


> _Snippity_
> 
> Also, it seems like there may be a cheaper pen tube insertion tool out there, any ideas?
> Thanks for the link Alpha.



I just use the black cone shaped plastic cap off of the CA glue.  Especially since I leave them off to keep the glue from hardening.

.


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## GouletPens (Apr 29, 2009)

Glass Scratcher said:


> I just use the black cone shaped plastic cap off of the CA glue. Especially since I leave them off to keep the glue from hardening.
> 
> .


 Just don't knock the bottle over:tongue:


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## Glass Scratcher (Apr 29, 2009)

GouletPens said:


> Just don't knock the bottle over:tongue:



I stand all 3 open bottles in my open HF drill bit case.  All the bits are on swing outs so there is nothing in the bottom to get glued, and they are confined.

The only thing that has been inadvertantly glued was a blank to a thumb.  Then for 3 or so hrs I just walked around the shop like I was holding a, well, stick in my hand.


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## Josh Gertz (Apr 29, 2009)

Sweet that cap is free with the CA 

Another $10 saved!

Ive been painting miniatures for years, nothing like having little metal spears stuck to your fingers for half a day.


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## Misterturner (Apr 29, 2009)

Josh,

Just some random thoughts.

Your lathe choice sounds like a good one, but I can't believe the cost.  Unfortunately, last year this time it was selling for $329 at Woodcraft!

I love the miter saw, and especially the price.  That's a GREAT solution.

Mandrel: I bought the adjustable one from Woodnwhimsies.  You're able to quickly let out only as much mandrel as needed - great if you're making multiple pen styles.

I can't comment on the barrel trimmer you've selected; it looks like the first that I purchased, but seems to have a price that is too good to be true.  I can tell you that I recently upgraded from a four blade to a six blade (from Packard Woodworks) and love it.  I've never used a two blade trimmer, but imagine that it could be difficult to use.  For the same reason, I think the 6 blade is smoother in its operation than the 4 blade and I rarely had any trouble with the 4 blade (but it was damaged by me by accident so needed to be replaced) - but there are 6 blades to be sharpened!

Tube insertion: I've recently switched from CA to epoxy.  I hate the mess of epoxy, but have not had any of the problems I had experienced when I used CA.  Since using the epoxy I have been plugging the ends of my tubes with various things (most recently Playdoh).  As a result, I haven't had much use for the insertion tool (since both ends are plugged).  When I used CA, you have all the time in the world to be careful (and I didn't need to plug the tubes) and the insertion tool was great to have.

Pen kits: you've probably read that Slimlines are the easiest, but for the life of me, I've never figured out why.  I would argue that a pen with a one piece body is EASIER.  With slimlines, you have two pieces (both of which have to be successes for the pen to be a success), that you are going to attempt to match and you will be doing a lot of turning to get them down to the final size.  One mistake and you have a potentially unmatched segment looking for a twin and you may find yourself needing another tube.  You will also use most of the standard size blank to make it, and if one or both are sacrificied during the turning process you may find yourself using ANOTHER blank to make another segment (non grain matched or pattern matched).  In contrast,  some of the single piece kits allow you to make TWO pens from one standard size blank.  The slimline kits may be cheaper than most others, but that is the only advantage I can think of for starting with them.  It wasn't until I turned many other single segment pens that I ever attempted a slimline, and I was glad that I hadn't started there.

Jason


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## alphageek (Apr 29, 2009)

Misterturner said:


> Jason & Josh,
> 
> I can't comment on the barrel trimmer you've selected; it looks like the first that I purchased, but seems to have a price that is too good to be true.  I can tell you that I recently upgraded from a four blade to a six blade (from Packard Woodworks) and love it.  I've never used a two blade trimmer, but imagine that it could be difficult to use.  For the same reason, I think the 6 blade is smoother in its operation than the 4 blade and I rarely had any trouble with the 4 blade (but it was damaged by me by accident so needed to be replaced) - but there are 6 blades to be sharpened!


You can get both 4 & 6 blade heads from the member that link is from, and although it seems too good to be true, its true... He skipped the 'middleman' and is selling at much closer to cost.   I can personally vouch for the person selling.. The post office ripped open a package and some of mine fell out.... And Daniel took care of it!



Misterturner said:


> Pen kits: you've probably read that Slimlines are the easiest, but for the life of me, I've never figured out why.  I would argue that a pen with a one piece body is EASIER.  With slimlines, you have two pieces (both of which have to be successes for the pen to be a success), that you are going to attempt to match and you will be doing a lot of turning to get them down to the final size.  One mistake and you have a potentially unmatched segment looking for a twin and you may find yourself needing another tube.  You will also use most of the standard size blank to make it, and if one or both are sacrificied during the turning process you may find yourself using ANOTHER blank to make another segment (non grain matched or pattern matched).  In contrast,  some of the single piece kits allow you to make TWO pens from one standard size blank.  The slimline kits may be cheaper than most others, but that is the only advantage I can think of for starting with them.  It wasn't until I turned many other single segment pens that I ever attempted a slimline, and I was glad that I hadn't started there.



Slimlines are CHEAP..  The main reason that this is a reason to start there... However, this raises a good point that wasn't brought up that i recall... whatever kit you choose - GET EXTRA TUBES.. They are cheap..  So if you run out of kits, you can continue turning while waiting for more  (and other reasons).

Dean


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## Josh Gertz (Apr 29, 2009)

I think most everything I have read has stated that they are not the easiest kit to make and being cheap was why they were so popular. Most Starter Sets come with them as well.

I will likely pick up a few kits to try out, as well as a stopper kit. Hopefully Jason wont mind too much on Sunday as I will likely have a ton of questions for him about all of this. Getting my actually hands dirty will help a lot too.


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## CSue (Apr 29, 2009)

Hi Josh,
When I got started turning pens, I'd seen a demo in person, talked with the turners there.  I'd read a few months of stuff here and did some price comparisons.  The biggest expense is the lathe. Watch the ads in your area.

As far as everything else, a lot of people sell some great stuff for reasonable prices here in our classified section.   The first set of tools was an HHS from Rockler.

I didn't have a drill press or even a chuck for my lathe.  I used by hand drill.  I used a large clamp for my pen assembly and my buffing system was (and still is) based on the wool paint rollers sold at Lowes and Home Depot.  My second purchase after a month was a skew and gouge each costing more than the initial  set.

The more you turn, the more you will have a feel for what works best for you. The best thing you can do before you buy buy buy is to get together with someone in your area who may let you have a bit of hands on experience.  Woodcraft stores have classes you can take part in  as well.

GOOD LUCK.


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## Josh Gertz (May 7, 2009)

*More research into pricing and what not*

Lathe: http://www.amazon.com/1014VSI-10-Inc...0622841&sr=8-1 *$460*

Turning Tools: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=47066 *$45* ($25 Savings...HSS set to start with)

Sharpening: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=36799 *$10 *($230 Savings!...will use these until I can upgrade to a wheel)

Drill Chuck: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=42340 *$7*

Table: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=93991 *$120*

Mandrel: ?

Chuck: http://www.woodcraft.com/product.aspx?ProductID=146801&FamilyID=20042 *$78*

Jaws: http://www.woodcraft.com/product.aspx?ProductID=146804&FamilyID=20042 *$21*

Sawing: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=37022 *$6 *(Found one cheaper...$14 savings)

Barrel Trimming: http://yourdonspens.com/TiNTwistBit.html#Pen_Mills *$15 + shipping* (Thanks Alpha...$15 savings)

Sanding: http://www.pennstateind.com/store/PK...cid=4026108121 *$14*

http://www.pennstateind.com/store/PK...cid=4026108121 *$23*

Tube Insertion: http://www.pennstateind.com/store/PK...cid=4026108121 *$10*

Assembly Press: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=38183 *$8 *(ThanksAlpha...$36 savings)

Blanks: Prices vary but I will try to get a bulk deal on eBay to start with

Pen Kits: Vary, but will probably start with Slimlines

CA/BLO: Pick it up at a hobby store or Walmart

I think I am pretty locked in for what I need to get started...any additional things I am missing?


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## alphageek (May 7, 2009)

The only think I would change is you are MUCH better off here at IAP over ebay for blanks.   There is alot of good vendors as well as there is some of us who might be willing to send you some starter stuff for just the price of shipping or not much higher than that.  (I personally could send you some corian and wood for just shipping costs)... Landfilllumber would probably have a really cheap starter box ... and when you get to acrylics check out exoticblanks.com (pr_princess on here).


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## Josh Gertz (May 7, 2009)

I was looking at some bulk boxes on eBay just to burn through to practice on. I saw one auction for 150 some odd maple/oak blanks for like $11. (Cant remember exactly what kind of wood it was)


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## Glass Scratcher (May 7, 2009)

Josh Gertz said:


> I was looking at some bulk boxes on eBay just to burn through to practice on. I saw one auction for 150 some odd maple/oak blanks for like $11. (Cant remember exactly what kind of wood it was)



Make sure you check what the s&h is going to be before you bid.  Several (many) people on ebay mark-up their s&h to make a profit.


On your list, I would also take a look at the Rousseau WorkBench System, from Woodcraft.  You have to get a top or use some 3/4 plywood, but the bench is sturdy, and you can get the wheel kit to add later.  I have my Steel City on one made with the 20" & 28" extenders and the wheel set (I have 2 little Wiltons sitting on the second shelf) so the thing will handle the load.  A doubled plywood top that is cut at 24" x 40" and the 2 shelves cut to fit.  The cost is about the same but you have more options.  You do loose the vise, but you can add a Groz later if necessary.  You can drill your own holes in the top for bench dogs.

http://www.woodcraft.com/product.aspx?ProductID=148371&FamilyID=20346


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## Daniel (May 7, 2009)

My suggestion after years of making pen.
save the money on the band saw, drill press and blank vice for now and invest it in a good lathe and a Barracuda or Nova chuck with a jacobs chuck for your tail stock. drill on the lathe and you have added a lot of other features to your lathe with just this one accessories. You may even find you do not want to drill any other way. Cut blanks with a miter saw even is it is a hand one until you can get a better method. I do not like the powered miter saw for blanks but cut them with a radial arm saw all the time.
after a good lathe and a way to drill blanks I suggest just a few of the most necessary turning tools and a good method of keeping them sharp. the wolverine and tormek systems are both popular and expensive. there are knock off versions of both. I would simply tackle each purchase individually and ask questions about each here on the group. I own the Wolverine sharpening system and like it, but it is a high speed sytem and many do not like that. It makes overheating the cutting edge easier to do. I think you woudl out grow the pre drilled blanks in a hurry but they could be an answer for your first couple of dozen pens. you will soon be eying all that stufff that takes precision drilling and all that and I really think you will be a step ahead if your tool purchases are in that direction as much as possible.
Low price does not necessarily mean a cheap tool. But you do have to know what you are looking at to tell the difference. If in doubt find someone that is not to help make the final decision. nothing is worse that socking all your play money into tools and then spending all your time fighting with them.
one of P.S.I. starter set has a lathe that is the same thing as the Jet that is so popular around here. I woudl honeslty recommend you go a step or two higher in lathe sizes than the little pen lathes though. You are likely to be suprised at what you end up trying to do with it in a very short time.I personally turn pens on a 12X48 lathe. I also can turn table legs on it if I want.


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## BruceK (May 7, 2009)

Josh,
Check out this link I just saw at sawmillcreek

http://campaign.constantcontact.com...KgZxYr4wsVb_NjBAPSNkdwTFZWHkNpN3sLOnxUW0IbiM=

The jet lathe for $320 shipped!

That would save you $140!!

Looks like you better hurry...


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## Josh Gertz (May 7, 2009)

BruceK said:


> Josh,
> Check out this link I just saw at sawmillcreek
> 
> http://campaign.constantcontact.com...KgZxYr4wsVb_NjBAPSNkdwTFZWHkNpN3sLOnxUW0IbiM=
> ...



/sigh...just spent $500 on new tires for the car and not sure when the tax return gets in. Hopefully soon!

Thats an amazing price for that


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## Munsterlander (May 7, 2009)

I just read through all this - I'm sure you've realized there's a ton of experience and wisdom to be found here - but I had to laugh given the huge amount of information you got and the subject you used for your topic...

Just a little additional 2 cents:

- Somebody recommended a diamond sharpening pad - 2nd that suggestion, it's a very inexpensive way to have an absolutely necessary sharpening capability - you can spend more later.  You can also find an inexpensive set at a Woodcraft store.  For a gouge you'll also need a slipstone to clean the edge up on the inside of the gouge - also inexpensive.

- I've never drilled on my lathe, and definitely should learn how - but one thing I do like is having equipment set up that I don't frequently have to reconfigure.  I leave the centering vice set up on my large dp most of the time - I have a 2nd bench top dp that I leave set up for barrel trimming - the only thing I ever change on my lathe is between a mandrel for turning and a dead/live center set for applying CA finish.  probably not a huge time savings if you're doing several pens at once because you can do each task for a full set of blanks and not change out constantly - but I find it very convenient.

- I think I remember you mentioned a work bench?  I do my work in a small 1-car garage and need to get things out of the way quickly.  An inexpensive and very flexible way to have table-top work space is to get some of the folding plastic sawhourses and just put a 2x3 or so piece of particle board between them.  I also bought a stanley "fat max" utility table that also folds to about 6-7" wide.  it's very stable and I use it both for the desk top dp and for a small mitre saw when i'm cutting blanks.  Just a thought - big work benches are, well, big...

Anyway, have fun!!


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## Misterturner (May 8, 2009)

Josh,

I just received an e-mail from Jet that announced a sale on one of their $2,000 lathes (not right now, but thank you!).  Included in that message was a link to one of their HOW-TO videos on the lathe (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ks_SJcAyPtI). It might give you a better idea on what does what and what you might like to get.   Once at youtube, you'll see other videos listed in their Shop Class series that are worth watching - on tools, sharpening, etc..  

I didn't mention it earlier, and I can't recall if anyone else already did, but dust (wood in particular; and some are far worse than others) is something you best not breathe in.  The first video describes masks and briefly shows the Jet air filtration system.  

I bought one the Jet models (via Amazon) at the time I purchased the lathe for just over $200.  Its incredible how quickly it can clear the air in a 10' x 10' room of particulate matter (the stuff you CAN see - the really bad stuff is smaller and can't be seen, but much of it CAN be filtered by these systems).   

Related to the dust business, I have a dust collecting shroud just behind the lathe that is hooked up to my shop vac to draw in much of the dust/turnings.  The Jet filters the air of what the vacuum didn't draw in.  By the way, Woodcraft sells a very useful device (and I just noticed that Sears sells the same thing for a little less - $20) that plugs into one of your outlets.  The device has two outlets - you plug your lathe into the top one and your vacuum into the bottom one.  Then, every time you turn your lathe on the vacuum will turn on.  There has to be enough current draw by the lathe though, so it may not actuate the vacuum at the lowest speeds.  For example, when I am about to drill a hole in an acrylic blank I have the lathe set at the lowest speed and when it is turned on the vacuum doesn't come on.  As soon as the bit makes contact with the acrylic, there is more resistance, the motor of the lathe has to work harder, and draws more current, which then allows the device to "magically" switch the vacuum on, right when needed.  When the lathe is switched off, the vacuum remains on for an additional few seconds, which is usually just the perfect amount of time.

Hope this helps.


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## Misterturner (May 8, 2009)

To be clear, the device I just described is the one found at Woodcraft (http://www.woodcraft.com/product.aspx?ProductID=147369&FamilyID=5855).  The device I just saw at Sears this past weekend does not look the same, and I can't recall if it has the same or MORE outlets, but it likely works on the same principle.

Its REALLY nice to have this automated.  Even though I wear noise cancelling headphones or sound muffling headphones, its still nice to have the loud shop vac off whenever it isn't needed (and to have it come on without me having to think about it whenever it IS needed).


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## Josh Gertz (May 8, 2009)

Thanks Jason.

I have a budget set aside for safety stuff (Mask/goggles/ears), not enough yet to get a whole vacuum/air system but its one of my first upgrades I have for saving up.


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## GouletPens (May 9, 2009)

Misterturner said:


> To be clear, the device I just described is the one found at Woodcraft (http://www.woodcraft.com/product.aspx?ProductID=147369&FamilyID=5855). The device I just saw at Sears this past weekend does not look the same, and I can't recall if it has the same or MORE outlets, but it likely works on the same principle.
> 
> Its REALLY nice to have this automated. Even though I wear noise cancelling headphones or sound muffling headphones, its still nice to have the loud shop vac off whenever it isn't needed (and to have it come on without me having to think about it whenever it IS needed).


 Even better (well, cheaper anyway) option is to just hard wire an electrical outlet on a switch that your shop vac/DC is plugged into. I did that for mine....did a 3-way switch with one switch right at my lathe, the other one at my belt/disc sander and have piping from my DC to both....I just flip the switch right at the tool when using it, flip it off when I'm done. Cost me about....mmm.....$5 in materials? That's if you're comfortable wiring that up....I wired up my entire shop from scratch, so I've done a couple of outlets before:tongue:


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## Josh Gertz (May 9, 2009)

I havent touched electricity since High School Stage Crew...fell off the rafters hanging lights because someone thought it would be funny to turn the electricity back on. Ive never really felt comfortable doing electric work since.


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## Leo (May 9, 2009)

I am more of a tool collector than a wood worker. I did a lot of investigating before buying a lathe.
Some one said, “You can turn little stuff on a big lathe, but you can’t turn big stuff on a little lathe.” 
With that in mind I decided I wanted a JET 1442 Variable Speed lath,
 a Talon Chuck and a beginner’s set of tools and a JET Drill Press. 
I could turn bowls, baseball bats walking sticks or pens.
I already had a 10” table saw, 14” band saw, a dust collector and a combination belt/disk sander.
I went to Woodcraft and Rockler and priced out each item, went home and compared prices.
Then went back and asked for their very best package price.
Rockler won hands down.

I didn’t do enough research on turning.
I am too old to do much bowl turning. Too much drying time, I want instant results.
I have turned a ton of pens and a few bowls and bar stool legs.
I am now going to down size my lathe to a Mini Electronic Variable Speed lathe, probable a JET
and sell my table saw. I have a bunch of stuff and going to offer a package on “CRAIGS LIST”.

When I sell my stuff then I will buy the mini and just turn pens, bottle stoppers, bracelet helpers
and other little stuff


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## Glass Scratcher (May 9, 2009)

If you have a shopvac type vacuum with the 1 1/4? hose you can take an empty(sad I am defining that) plastic gallon milk cut off the bottom half and screw it into the rubber sleeve on your hose and you have a scoop collector to sit at your lathe bed.

If your vac hose doesn't have a soft rubber sleeve, well that is what duct tape is for.


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## themartaman (May 10, 2009)

The person in the above video is a personal friend. Nick uses jet mini lathes for some of his teaching and to take to classes outside his shop. Recently I was at his shop and found too many similarities to my PSI lathe. I use a Nova for big stuff. Buy what you can afford and start turning. My PSI came from ebay. New. Bought a smaller drill press at yard sale. CA glue and epoxy from local rc hobby shop. Start with one style pen kit and then expand. I use 2 tools for turning. Small bowl gouge for roughing and a skew for finishing up. Skews require practice. My pen press is a nut cracker modified. Craigslist is another good place for tools.


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## Josh Gertz (May 11, 2009)

I would like to thank Jason (jclark58) for inviting me over to his house and showing me how to turn a pen. 

Got to go over some safety, equipment, wood types, mini lathe and larger lathe, tools, drilling, finish, etc. I also got to bring home a somewhat "ugly" pen in some myrtle(?) and some nice blanks for when I get my own stuff. Think I will get some cheaper wood to practice on before I go for the Desert Ironwood though.

I will get some pictures later, I brought the pen to work and used it for most of the day.

Thanks again Jason


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## Josh Gertz (May 17, 2009)

So the Woodcraft sale came and went...

I personally sold some older video game systems and old role playing stuff to pay for a lathe...the people that wanted to buy the stuff wont have money until payday this Friday.../sigh

My wife and I also have yet to receive our income tax returns and my tuition reimbursement hasn't gotten here either.

I was really hoping to grab the Jet 1014VSI on sale, the savings would have gone to a band saw or grinder.

Hopefully something will come up once I have the cash in hand...cant wait


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## Josh Gertz (May 18, 2009)

*Somewhat Finalized List*

Lathe: http://www.amazon.com/1014VSI-10-In...ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1240622841&sr=8-1 ($460, though I am hoping for a cheaper price this holiday weekend)

Tools: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=47066 ($45)

Chucks: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=42340 ($7)

http://www.woodcraft.com/product.aspx?ProductID=146801&FamilyID=20042 ($78)

http://www.woodcraft.com/product.aspx?ProductID=146804&FamilyID=20042 ($21)

Mandrel: http://www.pennstateind.com/store/PKM-BL.html ($18)

Sharpening: http://www.woodcraft.com/product.aspx?ProductID=148382&FamilyID=20355 ($180)

http://www.woodcraft.com/product.aspx?ProductID=127187&FamilyID=1998 ($31)

Cutting: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=96980 ($140)

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=5394 ($10)

Drill Bits/Barrell Trimming: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=1611 ($50)

http://yourdonspens.com/TiNTwistBit.html#Pen_Mills ($15 + Shipping)

Sanding: http://www.pennstateind.com/store/PKSPSET5.html?mybuyscid=4026108121 ($22)

http://www.woodnwhimsies.com/product292.html?__utma=1.2111330038.1238090587.1241218430.1242681959.7&__utmb=1&__utmc=1&__utmx=-&__utmz=1.1240564173.5.5.utmccn%3D(referral)%7Cutmcsr%3Dpenturners.org%7Cutmcct%3D%2Fforum%2Fshowthread.php%7Cutmcmd%3Dreferral&__utmv=-&__utmk=109176326 ($17)

Finishing: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=95709 ($13)

http://www.pennstateind.com/store/LBUFFSYS.html ($55)

http://www.pennstateind.com/store/DEFTOIL.html ($10)

Assembly: http://www.pennstateind.com/store/PENPRESS4.html ($40)

Wood: $100 Budget, want a bulk deal to practice on and than some decent stuff to actually turn into pens

Glue: I saw a link for someone selling CA glue for a good price here but I couldnt find the link after searching.

Kits: Not sure what to spend here...maybe $100 or so to start.

Anyone see any glaring issues with my list? Or alternate suggestions?


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## Glass Scratcher (May 18, 2009)

For micromesh I would go with this and cut each pad into 1/4s:
http://www.woodnwhimsies.com/produc...php|utmcmd=referral&__utmv=-&__utmk=109176326

You can make your own buffing system for under $40(including the bars of compound).

Instead of the spingloaded pen press, you could use this, it isn't dedicated but...
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=38183


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## Josh Gertz (May 18, 2009)

Glass Scratcher said:


> For micromesh I would go with this and cut each pad into 1/4s:
> http://www.woodnwhimsies.com/produc...php|utmcmd=referral&__utmv=-&__utmk=109176326
> 
> You can make your own buffing system for under $40(including the bars of compound).
> ...


 
Thanks for the MM link.

I was able to use the pen press to make my one pen so far at another members home and liked it enough to want to spend the extra cash on it. As well as having the extra cash to spend right now.

Buffing for $40? Do tell...


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## jclark58 (May 18, 2009)

Check Craigslist for a bandsaw.  You don't need a big saw if you're primarily going to be cutting pan blanks. 

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/tls/1176093762.html

If you're interested I may be willing to part with the mini lathe that we drilled on.  It's not VS but I'd be willing to do a package deal on it with a bunch of accessories.

Jason


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## Josh Gertz (May 18, 2009)

jclark58 said:


> Check Craigslist for a bandsaw. You don't need a big saw if you're primarily going to be cutting pan blanks.
> 
> http://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/tls/1176093762.html
> 
> ...


 
Thanks for the link. I may call tonight and see if I can pick it up after work tomorrow, if not there are plenty on there I can look at...for the 140 I was going to spend I could probably get a larger one in case I need it later.

I also sent a PM about the Mini.


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## Josh Gertz (May 21, 2009)

*Its Starting!*

Hey everyone,

So its starting, I had a much larger budget than I previously thought so I splurged on a few things.

I have a drill press and band saw on the way. Im still getting the stuff to drill on the lathe but I figure the drill press could be used for other tasks.

I stopped at Woodcraft on the way home and got a slow speed grinder, wolverine jig, skew attachment and a NOVA Pin Jaw kit.

Ordered the buffing system from Penn State along with a few other things.

This weekend at some point I will be stopping at Harbour Freight to pick up a work bench, tools, goggles, respirator, ear muffs and various other bits.

Finally, I am buying a lathe from another member with a bunch of extras for a good price.

Here are some pictures of my garage right now...its been like this since we bought the house 3 years ago. Time to clean it out! ...and some pics off my loot for the night.

To make things a bit even I bought LOML a sewing machine since hers has been broken for ages now


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## Glass Scratcher (May 21, 2009)

I have that same grinder.  It works well.


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## Josh Gertz (May 24, 2009)

I got a lot more done today, got the lathe and got nickle and dime'd at Wal-Mart for tools that I thought I had but are now missing. (Hex Set, Power Drill, Level, Stud Finder, etc)

This was the back corner of the garage (picture 2 in the previous post). It is now home to my equipment because its the only place with an outlet 

I hung some old Ikea CD shelves we were going to toss...they are the perfect size for blanks and each one holds about 300 total...glad I hung on to them while I was cleaning.

I also had an old shelf system that was in LOML's previous business, working as a drying station for some wet blanks I got in the mail.

Finally in the back is the 1014I, changing the belt is easy enough for me. I got a really good deal on it, with the extension bed, bench, 2 chucks, 3 face plates, jaws.

Now I just have to wait for everything else...I dont have the mandrel yet or any kits otherwise I would be turning right now! I also am waiting on my tools, I may run over to HF tomorrow to get the cheap set just so I can play a bit.


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## aggromere (May 24, 2009)

i really like the way you have those wall bins for the blanks.  It looks like you are really organized and just about open for business.


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## Josh Gertz (May 25, 2009)

aggromere said:


> i really like the way you have those wall bins for the blanks.  It looks like you are really organized and just about open for business.



Just about, still waiting on all of the little stuff...live center, mandrel, sandpaper, polish, etc.

I actually couldnt take it and ran over to HF to get a cheapo set of tools just so I can practice a bit while I am waiting.

Putting blanks in the pin jaws and turning them a bit so I can use them later for slimlines still.

Let me tell you...learning how to use the skew correctly is a pain in the rear...and sassafras smells much more than the other woods I was using.


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## austing458 (Sep 2, 2009)

dude i have a HF mini lathe for my pens and such and it works fine, i mean its awesome for beginners....
cheap($120..$130 w/ warranty..get it)
works well.....
variable speed
all around great for what your doing.
the drill press idk i have one but i had it before i got the lathe so....
in order to drill on the lathe you need a seperat chuck for it which its like another $100
BANDSAW!!! get a nice one and it will pay for itself, i mean it, it is very handy
also i have the $10 lathe tool set from HF its fine....i have heard a few times one of the great advantages to that is when you get a new set you will have to know to sharpen them because they need it alot, besides the good ones are like $200 so it will save you money ALOT OF IT
buffing wheel shmuffing wheel who needs it just get a good finish or just a good clean rag and buff them by hand its fine i dont even buff mine heck i use poly and i still have a glassy finish without buffing
work bench.....hum cant help you there...i would just watch ur local craigs list


Have fun and good luck, thats all the info i have for you.


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## austing458 (Sep 2, 2009)

you can use your drill press for assembly just put some dowel in the chuck and a 2x4 in the vise and put the not yet assembled pen in the middle.....works very well and saves money


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