# Legacy Mill 200



## PenWorks (Sep 3, 2005)

Thank goodness for holiday's ! [] I finally got time to start experimenting with the Legacy mill I got from Scott, thanks again.

This is the smallest mill they make, model 200, it works with a 
Porter Cable laminate trimmer.

I will up date this as I gain more experience and confidence with the machine.

First, it is a well made machine, no scimp on materials, very sturdy and well thought out. Shortfalls are, I think it takes a special mandrel, none of mine fit, all the threads were to large. Scott found his and sent it to me. It takes a real small thread on the end of the mandrel. Secound, I do not like the way it indexes. You have to unloosen a screw and rotate a piece on the end. The piece is hard to grab onto, and I just don't like the design.

I made a new work bench for it. This side of the table is for the Legacy and the other side of the table is my new pen assembly area and other stuff, about 4x6

This is the Legacy 200






I had a bunch of slimline blanks allready glued up from years ago, I don't make many slim lines, so I finally found a use for these.

Here is my first try from R-L
Ouch ! [B)] I just hate flying debri in my shop ! As soon as the bit made contact it went flying. I had the trimmer up high just to get the feel of the first cut, Boy did I get the feel, a ricochete off the body. 2. The Pauduk was not bad, but the cap had a slighty different twist than the bottom, 3. the silvertree was even better, but the cap twisted and spun on the mandrell and it made a mark on the top cap. These have just been cut, right off the mill with no sanding.





Test bacth two, R-L another pauduk, more flying debri [B)] juniper was not bad and the last one I think is buckeye burl came out the best.





So far my summary is, soft woods are definately better to make spirals out of. The instructions are week on how to use the machine. They make no reference to what type of bits to use. I used the ones Scott sent me, a photo is shown of the bit. You really have to tighten the blanks in the mandrell from keeping them from spinning. It tskes three passes to cut the spirals. I am going to call Legacy and see what bits the recomend.

Anyways, I have a lot more blanks to experiment with and I think I will ware my face shield instead of my glasses


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## btboone (Sep 3, 2005)

It looks like there's some good potential there.  The buckey burl and silvertree do look pretty good.  It will be a real project to sand them correctly and get the pen parts to flow well.  I can't wait to see what you come up with.


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## dubdrvrkev (Sep 3, 2005)

I'm intrested to see an assembled pen. It looks like it could be fun.


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## jwoodwright (Sep 3, 2005)

I like new toys.  Hate the learning curve.  Can't wait to see the pens...[]


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## Ligget (Sep 3, 2005)

Anthony, after getting us all worked up with your photos.
You better be prepared to sell some of those lovely blanks on this site.LOL
Hope it all works out for you! [][]


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## woodscavenger (Sep 3, 2005)

Those would make some cool longwood pens with a transition hand cut spiral down to a traditional nib end.  I may have to ask you for some contract work.[]  Have fun with your new tow.


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## Deere41h (Sep 3, 2005)

Oh no......Anthony got a new toy.   Now what can we expect?  I hope it doesn't take you too long to learn to use it effectively.  I am looking forward to your first creation.


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## its_virgil (Sep 3, 2005)

Hey Anthony. The mill looks great and your first attmpts at spirals looks better than mine. Rich uses a core box router bit for the spirals we say in Provo. I got one today and will try some spirals over the long weekend, which is 1/3 gone.

Lets keep each other and the group posted on our progress. Ready, set, goooooo!
Do a good turn daily!
Don


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## scubaman (Sep 4, 2005)

Hi Anthony,
looks like you are not quite taking the Don Ward approach to spirals!  That involves sitting on the machine for a year ;-)

Are your mandrels by any chance all Berea?  Berea uses mandrels with 1/4-20 (1/4 NC) thread.  All others I've encountered (which I'm sure is not exhaustive) use 1/4-28 (1/4 NF).  These Legacy guys do not make mandrels - they use CSU mandrel shafts.  At least they did when I saw the machine demoed.  Don't forget - they know very little about pens!

Are you cutting from square blanks?  They probably tell you to in the instructions.  I have a feeling you will be happier if you do use hard woods, but turn cylinders first.  The diameter of the cylinder needs to be just a little larger than the high point on the profile you're making.  I tried 1 on my mill lathe with from a square blank, and while it worked, I was really worried about chipping especially at the ends.  You're hogging quite a bit of stock there

Don mentioned core-box bits.  Those make sort of the inverse profile from yours.  You can get a couple of core-box bits from MLCS for very little, definitely get 1/4" and 3/8" and see if you like the result.  The larger the diameter the flatter the spirals, of course.

Good luck!  I'll be looking for completed pens soon


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## PenWorks (Sep 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by its_virgil_
> <br /> Lets keep each other and the group posted on our progress. Ready, set, goooooo!
> Do a good turn daily!
> Don



Okay...GOOOO....todays labor..... 7 slim lines, 3 Barons, 2 Gents, cut, sanded and first 3 coats of Deft. 
So what do you have to show me ? [] [}] [] 

Your right Rich, no more blow outs. I turned them round on the lathe, then went to the mill, worked much better. 



<br />


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## Tom McMillan (Sep 4, 2005)

Those are looking good Anthony!!  Look forward to seeing the completed pens.[]


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## Tom McMillan (Sep 4, 2005)

OK---Don, waiting to see yours.


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## clem (Sep 4, 2005)

i have a legesy 200 since February the video that came with it was really messed up  have sent back 4 videos to the company and they WERE to send me a new one since May and many phone calls  NO  video
the 200 is still in the box 
it takes pratice to make the rope pens        clem


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## its_virgil (Sep 4, 2005)

That's not fair. The ink on my post is not even dry yet! You got a head start. You jumped the gun. Rich told you it was supposed to stay in the box for a year. I hought I had lots of time. Stupid me...you were probably applying the deft as I was typing my challenge. They look twisted Anthony. Or is that the effect you're going for? Really, nice looking half pens. The race is not over until a whole pen is posted. Maybe I should just concede, you're probably assemblying them as I type. I don't have a chance.[][][8D][}][][][V]

"I'll get one done, just you wait and see
Wwwwwhhhhhhyyyyy is everybody alway picking on me?"

PS  Could you do an article on what router bit you used, or just tell me?

PS#2 I won the faceting contest.[][:0]


> _Originally posted by PenWorks_
> Okay...GOOOO....todays labor..... 7 slim lines, 3 Barons, 2 Gents, cut, sanded and first 3 coats of Deft.
> So what do you have to show me ? [] [}] []


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## scubaman (Sep 4, 2005)

Don, you're right, there's someting wrong with Anthony's pen barrels...  the _<b>DO</b>_ look twisted!  I must have been too tired to notice ;-)

The bit he uses is specifically for the mill lathe.  It is linked to the exact pitch of the spiral they use - do I remember it as 1.5"?  The mill-lathe has a 2" and a 1" pitch...  if you use that bit, the 2 sides of the rope won't meet up...  You'd nee custom pulleys to get a 1.5" pitch


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## Chuck Key (Sep 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by its_virgil_
> <br />That's not fair. The ink on my post is not even dry yet! You got a head start. You jumped the gun. Rich told you it was supposed to stay in the box for a year. I hought I had lots of time. Stupid me...you were probably applying the deft as I was typing my challenge. They look twisted Anthony. Or is that the effect you're going for? Really, nice looking half pens. The race is not over until a whole pen is posted. Maybe I should just concede, you're probably assemblying them as I type. I don't have a chance.[][][8D][}][][][V]
> 
> "I'll get one done, just you wait and see
> ...



I think Rich is holding out on both of you.  Your only hope is that he did not sell them all at the DC Pen Show before taking pictures.[8)]

Chuckie

Edit:  Well, that sure did not come out right.  Not going to try to edit it again.  I was trying to say "Your only hope is that he sold them all before taking pictures."


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## timdaleiden (Sep 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by scubaman_
> <br />Don, you're right, there's someting wrong with Anthony's pen barrels...  the _<b>DO</b>_ look twisted!  I must have been too tired to notice ;-)



 I thought the twisted effect was just my monitor "flaking out" on me. []

 Anthony, if you soak those barrels in acetone for a couple of days, you may be able to straighten them out with some reverisified quick-grip clamps. [:0]Good luck!!![]


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## PenWorks (Sep 4, 2005)

Don, I am sure you will get a finished pen before me. I am going to wait for the Deft to dry. The bit I used was from Magnate, it is a "Rope Pen" item # 7597

In regards to the twisting, I thought that's what a spiral is []  I noticed (purely by accident) if I off center the bit on the mandrel, I can make different looking twists instead of perfect spirals. I had planned on pitching these practice barrels, but after finishing them and taking a look how they will fit together, the twisted action kinda looks good. Also, will make it harder for anyone to copy. I mean what are the chances of both of us screwing up the same way to make a nice pen []

The pitch is a 1 1/2 inch and is not adjustable.

Clem, you are not missing much on the tape. I finally put the DVD in, and was disapointed. It was nice to see them make other stuff, but as far as pen making goes, I think it was just a throw in.


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## scubaman (Sep 4, 2005)

Anthony,
is the bit you have stamped with a partnumber?  The bit you mention, the 1/2" plunge point round-over bit, 7503, I think would give very fat rope pens.  I was curious whether maybe you have the 7597 bit that is a whole lot shallower.  Magnate's catalog is http://www.magnate.net/pdffiles/Legacy%20Bits%202005.pdf and they developed some of the bits specifically for Legacy.  Check out page 1 and 4.

Any chance you could mail me this bit at some point for a test?  I have an idea it may be usable with the mill-lathe after all


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## PenWorks (Sep 5, 2005)

Rich, the bit is not marked, I think the one I have is a 7597 rope pen bit

The bit price is 16.00 in my book and I am not sending you the only bit I have to cut pens. I'll lend you the 14.00 and you can get your own []

<b> Edit for bit correction</b>
Rich, you are right again, I looked again in the catalog, the bit is a Rope Pen bit , part # 7597 , I don't know how I missed that.


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## scubaman (Sep 5, 2005)

Well, Anthony, if it comes to that I'll be in bad shape [B)] You're right, I've spent $20 on worse gambles.  I'll get the other bit I mentioned though.  Will let you know if and when I do and if it works out. Probably have some higher priority ideas I want to try on the mill-lathe when I get a round tuit


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## Old Griz (Sep 5, 2005)

OK, first the rope effects are real neat... not necessarilly my cup of tea, but really sweet... 
Does this mill also do tapered and straight flats... and do you really need a mill like this to do them or is there another less expensive way... 
Not all of us are hustling our golf partners to get tool money.. [}][}]


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## scubaman (Sep 5, 2005)

> _Originally posted by PenWorks_
> <br />Rich, you are right again, I looked again in the catalog, the bit is a Rope Pen bit , part # 7597 , I don't know how I missed that.


Ah, OK!  Don, if you really like ropes instead of the inverse (concave) spirals I've been making using the core-box bit (and I suspect you're working on), and you want to spring for $22.17 or whatever it is with shipping:  I think if you make 4 passes this bit will make a rope on the mill-lathes using the 2" pitch spiral.  Anthony makes 3 passes. Or you could make 2 passes using the 1" pitch.


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## PenWorks (Sep 5, 2005)

Here is a different twist on things.....I took the regular rope bit( now that I know what bit I really have [] ) cut the Baron cap like a regular rope on center. For the bottom, I cut a regular rope, went to the lathe and flaten the rope, went back to the mill and recut the rope using a different pitch, back to the lathe and knocked it down again to get this effect.




<br />


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## btboone (Sep 5, 2005)

OK guys.  For your next challenge: braid the rope. []


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## PenWorks (Sep 5, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Old Griz_
> <br /> Not all of us are hustling our golf partners to get tool money.. [}][}]



Ahhh, and not everday is a good day, could have bought some more router bits from the shelacking I took yesterday [V]

Tom, it will do straights and flats. Tapers as well. You can do straights and flats with the set up Fred is working on and Segre allready has made for his Jet mini. But they can't cut spirals.


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## PenWorks (Sep 5, 2005)

> _Originally posted by btboone_
> <br />OK guys.  For your next challenge: braid the rope. []



If I just would have been a Boy Scout, the possabilities would have been "Endless" []


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## scubaman (Sep 5, 2005)

> _Originally posted by PenWorks_
> <br />went back to the mill and recut the rope using a different pitch,


Well, not a different pitch since that's fixed [] But it's an interesting effect.  I think you will soon feel the restrictions of this tool as you you keep experimenting and start running into the limits.  Then come the ideas of how to modixy the tool to let it do more []


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## scubaman (Sep 5, 2005)

> _Originally posted by btboone_
> <br />OK guys.  For your next challenge: braid the rope. []


That'll be up to Don since unlike the Legacy, the mill-lathe CAN cut a twist in the opposite direction. Of course by the time Don designs templates that lift the bit for the over-under effects he might as well stabilize some rope and drill it out [8D]


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## scubaman (Sep 5, 2005)

> _Originally posted by PenWorks_
> <br />Tom, it will do straights and flats. Tapers as well. You can do straights and flats with the set up Fred is working on and Segre allready has made for his Jet mini. But they can't cut spirals.


Actually, the Legacy is not ideally suited for cutting tapered facets. I think you have to use a tilted template, and the cuts won't be flat but coves?  It might be that it's just maginally worse than sanding out the machining marks.  Would like to see you try and let us know what you think.  You'll love the hand sanding I'm sure []


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## PenWorks (Sep 5, 2005)

That's right Rich, I knew when I typed that it was not right.The pitch never varies, only the line you index it on. I guess I could have said, I recut it on a different index line.

What do you need to cut a left hand twist? This thing has forward and reverse [] There must be more to it than that.

Oh, and before I start my next post...."Your right Rich" []


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## PenWorks (Sep 5, 2005)

Here are some close up pics of the features on the machine.
Indexing is done by loosing the nut and rotating the index plate.
As you turn the crank handle, it rotates the stock and moves the router down the Y axis. Mine has 12 positions for indexing, the manual says 24 ? I noticed I am missing the turning knob, no wonder it was hard on my fingers to index.


<br />
There are templates allready made for various things, To cut a taper, you have to angle the flat template, or you can make your own templates for the machine out of MDF. The roller bearing will let the router follow your template for the Z axis


<br />
This is the head stock, which holds your router, can be locked in place and left loose to follow the Z axis cutting. 


<br />
This is the spiral pitch lock. When tightened, it will engage to cutting carrage and move the router down the stock. When left loose, you can manually move the head stock to cut flats and other work.


<br />
This is the madrel set up into the machine. Threads into the headstock. The tail stock slides along, buts into the end of the mandrel and is locked in place by a screw.


<br />

Well that's about it for features. As stated earlier, the pitch is fixed to 1 1/2 inches.


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## scubaman (Sep 5, 2005)

> _Originally posted by PenWorks_
> <br />What do you need to cut a left hand twist? This thing has forward and reverse [] There must be more to it than that.


A little more.  You have to get an extra 2 gears of the same (artbirary) size into the gear train somehow. That will rotate the mandrel the opposite way as the router travels the length of it. It would most likely require drilling into your new toy, though [] And of course you want to avoid introducing slop with the gears.



> Oh, and before I start my next post...."Your right Rich" []


I'm wrong plenty of times, Anthony, no illusions there [8D]


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## its_virgil (Sep 5, 2005)

Sounds like I'd better get busy...designing and making templates, reverse twisting, core-boxing, tapered-spiraling flats, flat spiraling tapers, spiraling flat tapers.....the list is endless to what this little MillLathe can do. Better get busy modifying the L200 Anthony. The first hole to drill in modifying a new tool is always the most difficult.[] BTW, your spiraling is looking very good. I like all of them.
Do a good turn daily!
Don


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## Scottydont (Sep 5, 2005)

Hi Anthony! I have been pretty busy and have not been on the forum much. I am very glad that you are getting some good use out of it. If you don't have a flap sander yet you might get one. It's great for sanding those rope profiles. Keep those pics coming!

FYI for everyone else, Legacy does participate in the Woodworking Shows if you want to see one in action. The season is about ready to start.

http://www.thewoodworkingshows.com/index.php?pageName=Show_Calendar


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## woodscavenger (Sep 5, 2005)

Man, another new toy to save money for[V]


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## btboone (Sep 5, 2005)

There's a couple ways to reverse the direction. One, like Rich said is to add a gear to the drive train.  There would be 3 gears instead of 2 in that case.  Another way would be to reverse the setup and put the drive gears on the opposite end of the drive shaft.  A third way would be to replace the small spur gear with a sprocket that clears the big gear.  It would be something like 3/4" diameter.  Use a ladder chain of the pitch of the gears to drive the small pulley in the same direction as the big gear.  It would use the big gear as a sprocket.  Places like McMaster Carr, Small Parts, or Berg probably have chains like that.


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## PenWorks (Sep 6, 2005)

Wwwhhhhhyyyyy does everthing have to be so complicated and technical [)]
No wonder I like sanding so much []


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## scubaman (Sep 6, 2005)

> _Originally posted by PenWorks_
> <br />Indexing is done by loosing the nut and rotating the index plate.


And you have to lose one every time?  Hope you got plenty of spares!!![}]


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## scubaman (Sep 6, 2005)

> _Originally posted by PenWorks_
> <br />Wwwhhhhhyyyyy does everthing have to be so complicated and technical [)]
> No wonder I like sanding so much []


Well, you'll have plenty of opportunity for that if you continue going down that path []  BTW I don't think Bruce's suggestions work...  I think #2 is a misconception.  #3 changes the pitch from 1.5" and the cuts from the 1/2" cutter will not match up the same... but then again, you like sanding...  []


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## btboone (Sep 6, 2005)

Yup, I see that #2 would need a left hand drive shaft, but I think #3 should work fine.  Yes, the pitch will be smaller, but it should still work, just like normal threads of different pitches are cut by the same threading tool.  It would be easy enough to try.


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## scubaman (Sep 6, 2005)

> _Originally posted by btboone_
> <br />Yup, I see that #2 would need a left hand drive shaft, but I think #3 should work fine.  Yes, the pitch will be smaller, but it should still work, just like normal threads of different pitches are cut by the same threading tool.  It would be easy enough to try.


The way the rope twist works is that the spiral has a 1.5" pitch.  The cutter is exactly 1/2" diameter - so 3 passes add up EXACTLY.  (I remember that the tool designer made a point of that during the demo we had at Legacy at the 2nd Penturners' Rendezvous - it makes sense now [])  If you make that 1st gear smaller, the pitch increases...  the cutter passes won't match up any more.  It'd be interesting to see  what kind of a ridge is left in the middle of the rope - I suspect it'd be a little inverted V ridge.  But a lot of effort for such an experiment


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## Darley (Sep 7, 2005)

Very nice mean toy you got there Anthony, hope he give you lots of fun, now 1 question ...on your indexing plate, you divide it in 3 ( 3 blue marks )why? is that related to the pitch or spirals for the pen barrel?


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## PenWorks (Sep 8, 2005)

Serge, the pitch is an 1 1/2 and the bit cuts a half inch, so 3 passes with the bit, will make a complete spiral. After every pass, I move the index 1/3.


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## Darley (Sep 8, 2005)

That what I though, thank for the tip Anthony, this legacy look good for xmas pressy[], have to talk to my banker[]shipping would be efty, any new from your DVR yet? the legacy will be lonely soon[] but try to combine the both I'm very sure you will do some thing stunning


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## PenWorks (Sep 8, 2005)

Serge, The ship has landed, it's on the way in a truck. Hooefully by Monday []
If you think you want one of these, Legacy is coming to Scottsdale, Az with the Woodworking show Nov.13th Maybe I can pick one up at the show and ship it to you.
Check with your banker []


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## woodscavenger (Sep 8, 2005)

How much $$ for one of those?


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