# Why can't I buy extra tubes ???



## bruce119 (Aug 22, 2008)

*The other day I ordered some tubes from Arizona Silhouette. The package came I opened it and found that only 3 packs of 7mm full length tubes there. I had ordered 50 0f the Sierra click and 50 of the baron tubes.*

I got this note:

"Brass tube availability has been spotty since the first of the year and delivery times have been longer than usual. We want to afford our customers who purchase kits from us to have priority on the extra tubes that are available. For that reason, effective *10:00AM**June 16, 2008**, we will no longer sell brass tubes bulk 'on their own' without the corresponding pen kits." *

*I didn't know about this and don't understand it. I guess some are buying 100's of tubes. But if you buy the tubes to make blanks. There going to buy the kits rite. Also I buy tubes during my build season now. Then I turn and make blanks and stock them keeps my cost down and helps on time. Then later during the selling season I buy the kits all I have to do is put the parts together. The tubes are already turned and finished.*

*I have not contacted A.S. yet as they are still closed. I just want to get some opinions. I can see both sides but seems to me your cutting your on foot off if you will not sell the tubes. They are the only one that sell the baron so someone is going to have to buy a kit from them anyway. And they show over 500 in stock.*

*I will let you know what they say when I call them.*

*Bruce *


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## rjwolfe3 (Aug 22, 2008)

Yep I saw that on his website, he said the price of brass has gone thru the roof and he is having a hard time getting the tubes from overseas.  So far I haven't seen that from any other supplier so hopefully it's just him and not everyone.  I know the price for empty cartridge shells has gone up as well.


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## spitfire (Aug 22, 2008)

Bruce I had the same thing happen to me. I ordered some tubes. maybe 30 in all if that. I also like to get the tubes turn them and get the kits when I need them or a group buy happens. I didn't know I couldn't get just tubes when I ordered either and was shocked when I got my package with no tubes. i read the little note that came just like the quote that you posted but my note also had red writing all over saying they had posted this in 3 areas onthe website and almost acting a little mad that i had wasted their time putting in the order. I went back and searched the site looking for that quote and I found it but the location is not in a good place plus I feel that this is an important thing that customers should see and would think they would make the quote stand out in maybe in red text to make it a little easier to "find" I didn't contact them and just placed an order with another company for my tubes. I don't want to have to read or search a website just to see that I can't order tubes. I would rather have they use big red fonts to make it stand out from the rest of the wording. If you go here you can see the quote on the website. It is right above the Baron kits.http://www.arizonasilhouette.com/Berea_Hardwoods_Pen_Kit_Images.htm


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## spitfire (Aug 22, 2008)

I should note, this will not stop my from buying from AS in the future I think them and they have served me well in the past. I also don't want to seem as i am talking down on their company.  I just wish the tube availability was made a little more clear


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## Rifleman1776 (Aug 22, 2008)

Maybe some enterprising person could find a source for aluminum tubes. Just a thought.


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## Chasper (Aug 22, 2008)

It looks like I took that wrong.  When I read "effective 10:00AM June 16, 2008, we will no longer sell brass tubes bulk  'on their own' without the corresponding pen kits."  I took that to mean that AS was no longer selling tubes at all other than those included with a kit.  I haven't been buying anything but stoppers from them since then because I always need a few extra tubes.  Are you saying that if I buy a kit than I can buy an extra tube set for that kit?


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## Mikey (Aug 22, 2008)

If you buy one kit, can you get one extra set of tubes, or 50 extra sets?

FWIW, why not just call Berea and ask them for the tubes? Last year I was buying 50 of everything as I like to turn, see how they come out and then buy the kit as necessary. Things may have changed since then, but I can guarantee that if BB is getting them, so is Berea.


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## Blind_Squirrel (Aug 22, 2008)

Buy one kit and 100 extra tubes! :biggrin:


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## Russianwolf (Aug 22, 2008)

where are all your replacement tubes going? 

I mean if you order 50 extra tubes and later (eventually) buy 50 its for those, then you should have 50 extra tubes still. I know I rarly detroy a tube to the point that I can't use it in the future. So what happens to all the extras that you should have?

For the Sierra, you can get tubes from woodpenpro. He sells them in packs of 10  for 3.95 I think. The other tubes he sells are in packs of 5 (will complete 5 pens) for the same price. For the Baron, you can get tubes from Woodcraft or try the canadian vendor (he can sell the kit to the states, but I bet he can sell the tubes)


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## bruce119 (Aug 22, 2008)

I will find out when they open. They open at 10 am Pacific time. They are the only ones who carry the sierra click. The wall st II click is the same tube but they don't carry tubes for the click. I will have to check with Beria directly.


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## bruce119 (Aug 22, 2008)

Russianwolf said:


> where are all your replacement tubes going?
> 
> I mean if you order 50 extra tubes and later (eventually) buy 50 its for those, then you should have 50 extra tubes still. I know I rarly detroy a tube to the point that I can't use it in the future. So what happens to all the extras that you should have?
> 
> For the Sierra, you can get tubes from woodpenpro. He sells them in packs of 10 for 3.95 I think. The other tubes he sells are in packs of 5 (will complete 5 pens) for the same price. For the Baron, you can get tubes from Woodcraft or try the canadian vendor (he can sell the kit to the states, but I bet he can sell the tubes)


 
Yes but the click verstion is about a 1/4" longer. Wooden pro or wood craft don't carry them


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## Mikey (Aug 22, 2008)

Russianwolf, I usually toss the tubes if they don't turn out the way I want, or just put them in a box and let them build up. Until now I was getting them really cheap and it didn't pay to spend my time getting all the crap off a problem tube because I could have a brand new one ready to go for .25.


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## Chasper (Aug 22, 2008)

Wait, the massage says, "...effective 10:00AM June 16, 2008, we will no longer sell brass tubes bulk  'on their own' without the corresponding pen kits."  That message is clear and unambigious; if I buy no kits, one kits, five kits or 50 kits I still cannot buy any bulk tubes.  

If I buy a kit I get the corresponding tube set included with the kit, but I cannot buy another tube set.  That is what the message says, I respect BB's right to run his own business as he sees fit, I admire him for how well he seems to run his business and I wish him great success.  I see no reason to challenge his policy.  But I quit buying pen kits from him because of this notice, I make too many mistakes and need an extra set of tubes from time to time.


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## DCBluesman (Aug 22, 2008)

The supply of brass tubes is going to continue to get tighter for ALL suppliers. Brass is 60-70% copper and copper is in high demand around the world with reserves dropping dramatically, as indicated in the picture. Expect higher prices and reduced availability. It's a fact we are going to have to live with.


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## Mikey (Aug 22, 2008)

Chasper said:


> Wait, the massage says, "...effective 10:00AM June 16, 2008, we will no longer sell brass tubes bulk  'on their own' without the corresponding pen kits."  That message is clear and unambigious; if I buy no kits, one kits, five kits or 50 kits I still cannot buy any bulk tubes.
> 
> If I buy a kit I get the corresponding tube set included with the kit, but I cannot buy another tube set.  That is what the message says, I respect BB's right to run his own business as he sees fit, I admire him for how well he seems to run his business and I wish him great success.  I see no reason to challenge his policy.  But I quit buying pen kits from him because of this notice, I make too many mistakes and need an extra set of tubes from time to time.



I think you missed a big part of that message 

"without the corresponding pen kits"

Means you need to buy the corresponding pen kit to get extra tubes. I don't see how you could say that you can't buy any extra tubes???


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## bruce119 (Aug 22, 2008)

another beef I have and I will ask when I get Bill on the phone is I bought a BUNCH of kit not that long ago in a group buy. Now I want to buy tubes and I am turned away. Perhaps he will deal with this on a person to person basis or it mite be set in stone.

I will find out in 15 minutes.


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## bruce119 (Aug 22, 2008)

OBTW berea has plenty and is willing to sell me 100 tubes.


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## ed4copies (Aug 22, 2008)

*Sorry, Lou*



DCBluesman said:


> The supply of brass tubes is going to continue to get tighter for ALL suppliers. Brass is 60-70% copper and copper is in high demand around the world with reserves dropping dramatically, as indicated in the picture. Expect higher prices and reduced availability. It's a fact we are going to have to live with.


 
If the equation is one ten foot water pipe or thousands of brass tubes, the money is in the brass tubes.

Don't get worried about brass availablity in this scale!!!

100 baron tubes were only about $50, there is not enough profit there to motivate Bill to ship.  And, SOME of the tubes were used to produce blanks that could have been purchased from Bill (snake skins).  That IS HIS prerogative, but don't expect an "industry-wide" trend to develop.  As Frank says, we CAN get them made or find a substitute locally, if it becomes necessary.  I doubt that will happen.  Meanwhile, consider the Jr. Gent which also can make a Jr. Statesman, if it turns out great.  No downside and the tubes CAN be purchased.

FWIW


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## Chasper (Aug 22, 2008)

Mikey said:


> I think you missed a big part of that message
> 
> "without the corresponding pen kits"
> 
> Means you need to buy the corresponding pen kit to get extra tubes. I don't see how you could say that you can't buy any extra tubes???



I don't see how you could take it any other way, and that is how I understood it and how I responded.  If I can't buy tubes I didn't and won't buy kits.


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## DCBluesman (Aug 22, 2008)

ed4copies said:


> If the equation is one ten foot water pipe or thousands of brass tubes, the money is in the brass tubes.
> 
> Don't get worried about brass availablity in this scale!!!


 
I understand that availability should not be an issue, but who do you think will get the copper, some mom and pop tube extruder in Mongolia who buys it by the kilo or Toyota who buys this stuff by the 100,000 kilo order?  When prices go up and supply diminishes, the value of little orders goes in the toilet.  Now Bill may not want to sell tubes (I will ask him) so folks can make blanks which compete with those he sells on his site (snakeskin), I doubt the lost sales are reason enough to p*** off his kit-buying customers.


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## bruce119 (Aug 22, 2008)

I called and Bill is out he is supposed to call me. So I will see what he has to say. I buy bulk for 2 reasons. I make blanks for members here that are unique and not offered on his site. Ultimately the end user buys the kits from him anyway.

Then I like to turn and finish bulk blanks during my off season now. Then assemble kits at a latter time. Much easier and faster that way. Then again I have to go back to him to buy the kits.

Another reason a lot of people buy so much is that he seams to out of stock a lot and some be be overbuying just to compensate for that.


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## ed4copies (Aug 22, 2008)

Lou,

I suspect Dayacom and Ring-Zing (whatever their name is in China) are using the same brass supplier and that supplier will have PLENTY of brass.

Prices MAY escalate - on that we can agree!!!

I KNOW I can have them made in Racine, if the price and availability get TOO difficult.  But what WILL I do with 100,000 tubes???


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## Ron in Drums PA (Aug 22, 2008)

I had a problem with AS three years ago with tubes, He told me they where a pack of 6 and where 10" long. I got 5 tubes that where 7" and he charged me the same price.
I never bought from him again.

Try here instead
http://www.pennstateind.com/store/PKT10-6.html
http://www.pennstateind.com/store/PK-TUBE7.html


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## ed4copies (Aug 22, 2008)

Ron,

Woodturningz will also sell you the pennstate stuff, usually a little cheaper.  AND THEY THANK-YOU FOR YOUR ORDER!!!!! Even small orders!!!

Woodnwhimsies will also sell tubes, cut to size for their kits.  But, these are NOT necessarily the same as other 7mm - IME! (In my experience)


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## Ron in Drums PA (Aug 22, 2008)

You are right Ed, Ryan is a decent guy too.

------

The price of copper has risen about 300+% in the last three years. 
But the supply is still good, it just costs more to get.


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## Rifleman1776 (Aug 22, 2008)

Some enterprising individual may want to check things out here:

http://www.thomasnet.com/products/brass-tubing-88625827-1.html

A buncha possible sources in quantity.


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## bruce119 (Aug 22, 2008)

Well I just got off the phone with Bill. Seam he goes with history. If you ordered kits from him in the past he will sell you tubes. My problem was I ordered a LOT from him only problem it was though group buys therefore it does not show that I ordered from that much. And I was told about it. I was told to go to berea and buy my tubes. So I did at almost 1/2 the price. And I will say one more thing price was NOT the issue with me. Bill spent the time to speak with me and explain why he does what he does. And I understand he is not in business for me.

I'm still a little unhappy but better life goes on and I will find a way. :good:
.
.


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## winpooh498 (Aug 22, 2008)

I know that Ernie at Bear Tooth sells tubes.


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## wood-of-1kind (Aug 22, 2008)

bruce119 said:


> And I understand he is not in business for me.
> 
> 
> .



Who is he then there to serve?????


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## doddman70 (Aug 22, 2008)

bruce119 said:


> And I understand he is not in business for me.
> . :good:
> .
> .




If he is not in business for you or others like you then who is he in business for?


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## Mikey (Aug 22, 2008)

I'm with those 2 above.

He doesn't exist without us. As much as he may include a free blank, the attitude that you get sometimes makes that extra blank seem like an "I'm sorry" bribe.

as long as there is no makeup sex, I don't care. LOL.


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## marcruby (Aug 22, 2008)

Before we go haring off to china, there are a number of US dealers who might be able to work in quantities small enough for group buys.  The should be able to provide stock in mm and inch fractions off the shelves.

Marc


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## Russianwolf (Aug 22, 2008)

See, I always knew those group buys would come back to haunt us.


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## Russianwolf (Aug 22, 2008)

Mikey said:


> I'm with those 2 above.
> 
> He doesn't exist without us. As much as he may include a free blank, the attitude that you get sometimes makes that extra blank seem like an "I'm sorry" bribe.
> 
> as long as there is no makeup sex, I don't care. LOL.



Wouldn't know, He's never had a reason to say I'm sorry to me. 

But I will say this. Bill didn't start this business for his own needs, he did so to help other turners. Much like Nolan, and others around here. From some of the people that I've talked with who know him much better than I, he probably wouldn't mind if the business did end. More turning time for him and less stress.


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## ed4copies (Aug 22, 2008)

Russianwolf said:


> See, I always knew those group buys would come back to haunt us.


 
Yeah,

Who WANTS to sell hundreds of pen kits at a time???

Customers are just USING the supplier, taking advantage of the DISCOUNTS!!!

DARN CUSTOMERS!!!

I'd rather live without them.

I feel better now.


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## PR_Princess (Aug 22, 2008)

FYI last I placed an order with AS I asked for 100+ baron tubes. We have ordered baron kits in the past. But not on that particular order. I got 0 tubes :frown:

In an attempt to get around that on one of recent group buys I asked for 100+ baron tubes again. I did get some, but AS filled only a very small percentage of what I requested.

The price of commodities go up, they go down. I actually expect some inflation. 

I will still want and need tubes until and unless the price hits a point of diminishing returns. As it is now, with the baron and other captive tubes being so difficult to get, I will just move my emphasis onto other more universally and readily available kit tubes. I doubt that what I, bruce119, or any of the others here do or don't do in the baron or click will have much impact on AS sales. We are small potatoes. We just have find ways to adapt.:redface:

Now, anyone want to sell their extra tubes that have been gathering sawdust?

Sorry Bruce119, I thought of it first!!!! I get dibs!!!!!:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::tongue:


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## Rifleman1776 (Aug 22, 2008)

bruce119 said, "And I understand he is not in business for me."

Yes, he is. Rewards come after serving the customer, EVERY customer.


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## Ron in Drums PA (Aug 22, 2008)

Russianwolf said:


> But I will say this. Bill didn't start this business for his own needs, he did so to help other turners.





I don't think so.


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## redfishsc (Aug 22, 2008)

bruce119 said:


> I will find out when they open. They open at 10 am Pacific time. They are the only ones who carry the sierra click. T





Nope. 

http://www.beartoothwoods.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=21_63


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## maxwell_smart007 (Aug 22, 2008)

http://penblanks.ca/index.php?target=products&product_id=73

They only ship to Canada, but there are a lot of Canucks on the forum...including me!


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## JayDevin (Aug 22, 2008)

hey Gang

Woodcraft sells the Navigator tubes in 5 packs  the item number is 147952
Navigator is what Woodcraft calls the Baron/Sedona they are $3.50 each package


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