# Trying to up my photo quality



## KenB259

Been trying different settings on my camera as well as lighting in my light tent. I'm sure these could be way better, but I feel they are the best I have done. I'm basing some of this on the fact that you can actually see the acrylic pen stand,. In the past, that has been washed out on a lot of my photos. Constructive criticism always welcome.


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## Darrin

I’d say you’re doing really good buddy!


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## KenB259

I don’t know why they post twice. 


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## Bob in SF

Ken - Great pens, great pix!


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## magpens

@KenB259

Ken, you said ..... "Been trying different settings on my camera as well as lighting in my light tent." .....

Good work .....

Now ..... What do you find to be optimal settings and lighting techniques ? . ( Probably a short answer is not possible !!! )


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## KenB259

I would imagine my settings that I had wouldn’t be of much help to anyone because absolutely every aspect is a variable. I did have the best luck by turning down the brightness of the light in the tent. I also took Eric’s advice and shot the photos further back, about 2 feet is where I ended up. I created a custom white balance setting and shot in RAW mode. 


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## Fred Bruche

Nice effort! Few pointers that I think would improve the pictures. 
The picture I like best is #3 (knurl GT pen), primarily because there is almost no light reflection off the pen body or the stand. To avoid that (very obvious in the other pictures) you need to be mindful of these reflections while taking the pictures and move your camera position accordingly. I can see your lighting system in the finials in #4 and #5, seems you are using some direct lighting, which is the main cause for the reflections. Try to add some sort of diffuser below these lights. Or better the lights should point to the white panels and reach the pen only indirectly. Less light but if you are shooting with manual controls (and with the camera on a tripod) you will find the right speed for your shutter.


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## KenB259

Fred Bruche said:


> Nice effort! Few pointers that I think would improve the pictures.
> The picture I like best is #3 (knurl GT pen), primarily because there is almost no light reflection off the pen body or the stand. To avoid that (very obvious in the other pictures) you need to be mindful of these reflections while taking the pictures and move your camera position accordingly. I can see your lighting system in the finials in #4 and #5, seems you are using some direct lighting, which is the main cause for the reflections. Try to add some sort of diffuser below these lights. Or better the lights should point to the white panels and reach the pen only indirectly. Less light but if you are shooting with manual controls (and with the camera on a tripod) you will find the right speed for your shutter.



Thing is I can’t point the light, it is fixed in the tent I could shut them off , but then, what’s the point of a tent? 


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## Fred Bruche

KenB259 said:


> Thing is I can’t point the light, it is fixed in the tent I could shut them off , but then, what’s the point of a tent?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Penturners.org mobile app



It is possible to use the lights from that tent, you did it in the third picture


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## leehljp

EXCELLENT! Those picts make me WANT to look at the pens!


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## magpens

The thing is ......

..... All this fiddling around with setting up for photography ..... minimizing reflections ..... choosing camera settings ......

It is all peripheral to the real point ...... making a nice pen !!! . . Too bad there is not a way around the complication of taking the pics !!!!!!!


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## KenB259

They were


Fred Bruche said:


> It is possible to use the lights from that tent, you did it in the third picture


 all the same lighting, but pens had different platings, another monkey wrench in the works.


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## Dehn0045

I like the photo of the knurl gt the best also.  I like the angle of the pen, I can't really articulate why I like it more, maybe it just seems a little more natural in the shot (how I would position the pen if I was looking at it on a shelf).


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## KenB259

What do you all think about this one?  I put a 

diffuser cloth over the lights to cut down reflections.


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## magpens

Frankly, I do not like the pic you just showed.

I get the impression that it was taken in a minor blizzard ..... too much whiteness overall.

Isn't it amazing how the picture quality influences our judgment of the merits of the pen in the picture !!


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## KenB259

magpens said:


> Frankly, I do not like the pic you just showed.
> 
> I get the impression that it was taken in a minor blizzard ..... too much whiteness overall.
> 
> Isn't it amazing how the picture quality influences our judgment of the merits of the pen in the picture !!


LOL I cant win


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## Fred Bruche

KenB259 said:


> They were
> 
> all the same lighting, but pens had different platings, another monkey wrench in the works.


Yes, the plating is certainly something to consider. The knurl gt is the only one where the stand doesn't show light reflections though. When we look at a picture our eyes instinctively go to the brightest spot/spots. Many bright spots keep the vision wandering and it takes longer to get to the pen. If there aren't really any bright spots, the attention will go quickly get to the subject.


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## magpens

KenB259 said:


> LOL I cant win



EXACTLY !! ..... The point I am making !

You have to be a profession pen-maker AND a professional advertising cameraman !!


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## KenB259

KenB259 said:


> LOL I cant win
> 
> 
> Fred Bruche said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the plating is certainly something to consider. The knurl gt is the only one where the stand doesn't show light reflections though. When we look at a picture our eyes instinctively go to the brightest spot/spots. Many bright spots keep the vision wandering and it takes longer to get to the pen. If there aren't really any bright spots, the attention will go quickly get to the subject.
Click to expand...

What about the one I just posted. I like it,Mal doesn't. There are no reflections on the stand and the finish looks smooth like it is.


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## KenB259

Here's a couple more I just took, in the same blizzard Mal.


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## Fred Bruche

KenB259 said:


> What do you all think about this one?  I put a View attachment 300216diffuser cloth over the lights to cut down reflections.


I like that one overall but the metal finial is a tad too bright and there's some light imbalance in the pen body that doesn't look natural. If there needs to be any the brightest half of the body should be toward the viewer.


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## KenB259

I am going to try a few with a gray background.


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## magpens

One possible byline .....
_'There are no mistakes in woodworking until you run out of wood.'_

Another .....
There are no successes until you master the art of photography.


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## Fred Bruche

KenB259 said:


> Here's a couple more I just took, in the same blizzard Mal.View attachment 300248View attachment 300249


It's getting there, you need a bit more depth of field, the top part is slightly out of focus.


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## magpens

KenB259 said:


> Here's a couple more I just took, in the same blizzard Mal.View attachment 300248View attachment 300249



I like these .... somehow they encourage me to look through the blizzard and see the real merits of the pen.

Professional photographers must have simple tricks to get through all this ...... application of "digital filters" or something.


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## KenB259

Gray background...better or worse?


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## magpens

Gray background = much better !!

But WHY ?

"Who cares ?" ..... is acceptable, I guess ..... if it works, use it !


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## KenB259

Okay last one. I believe these all may not be perfect, but I believe I have improved my technique. This last one is with a gray background, camera moved off to the side, capturing the pen at a different angle and the light was turned down rather low, with a diffuser cloth.


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## magpens

@KenB259

Ken, I would like to know, please, the f-number and shutter speed for that last photo ..... which is REALLY GOOD !!

One more thing, Ken ..... can you please take a picture of your whole booth setup with pen (on stand) in place so we get an overview ?

Thanks.


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## Fred Bruche

KenB259 said:


> Okay last one. I believe these all may not be perfect, but I believe I have improved my technique. This last one is with a gray background, camera moved off to the side, capturing the pen at a different angle and the light was turned down rather low, with a diffuser cloth.View attachment 300253


YES YES YES!


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## jttheclockman

Grey background is the answer to me. I use to shoot with grey, use to use gradient paper, shot with white and now sort of settled on a white shivering cloth type background. I do not use a tent. I use to but I move lights around and still looking for that perfect angle.


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## KenB259

magpens said:


> @KenB259
> 
> Ken, I would like to know, please, the f-number and shutter speed for that last photo ..... which is REALLY GOOD !!
> 
> One more thing, Ken ..... can you please take a picture of your whole booth setup with pen (on stand) in place so we get an overview ?
> 
> Thanks.



Mal I will do that, but another day, as I just took care of it all and my stomach is growling. 


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## KenB259

jttheclockman said:


> Grey background is the answer to me. I use to shoot with grey, use to use gradient paper, shot with white and now sort of settled on a white shivering cloth type background. I do not use a tent. I use to but I move lights around and still looking for that perfect angle.



I agree about the gray, that’s what I’ll stick with. 


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## magpens

KenB259 said:


> Mal I will do that, but another day, as I just took care of it all and my stomach is growling.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Penturners.org mobile app


 
@KenB259 

Well ....... if you've got it all packed up and put away ....... then OK  !


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## Fred Bruche

magpens said:


> @KenB259
> 
> Ken, I would like to know, please, the f-number and shutter speed for that last photo ..... which is REALLY GOOD !!
> 
> One more thing, Ken ..... can you please take a picture of your whole booth setup with pen (on stand) in place so we get an overview ?
> 
> Thanks.


These numbers will depend on your camera capabilities/settings (such as ISO) and the lens you are using. Ken mentioned the light intensity was low. So ballpark he was probably using something like f8 or f11 for 1/25 to 1/40 seconds exposure.


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## jttheclockman

Just something to compare to and as I said I shot on all types of backgrounds. In order::
Grey background, graduated black to white paper, white, grey cloth (old days), blue felt, blue painted boards, and there are a few others but mostly now white shiny cloth.


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## KenB259

Backgrounds definitely make a huge difference. All your pictures are well done to my eye. 


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## howsitwork

KenB259 said:


> What do you all think about this one?  I put a View attachment 300216diffuser cloth over the lights to cut down reflections.


better


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## magpens

@KenB259 

No .... not so good as the last previous one.

But I thought your stomach was growling and you had to go for dinner ? !!


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## KenB259

magpens said:


> @KenB259
> 
> No .... not so good as the last previous one.
> 
> But I thought your stomach was growling and you had to go for dinner ? !!



Umm Mal..... I didn’t post another one!!!


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## magpens

Fred Bruche said:


> These numbers will depend on your camera capabilities/settings (such as ISO) and the lens you are using. Ken mentioned the light intensity was low. So ballpark he was probably using something like f8 or f11 for 1/25 to 1/40 seconds exposure.



@Fred Bruche

Yes, I know it depends on ISO (or, as I would say old-fashionedly, ASA), but I was thinking the f-number would have to be up around f11 to get the depth of field we see in the photo. . And of course, the higher the f-number the greater the exposure time, and for exposures of what you suggest, a tripod mount would be mandatory.

I have never really taken pen photography too seriously and like to take my pics hand-held ..... which of course is incompatible with quality.

I can see that it has gotten to the point in our contests that outstanding pics are a necessity.
It seems to me that a decent DSLR is now required, not just an iPad photo or a cell-phone photo.
I do have a good, fairly new DSLR with macro lens.
I used to do a lot of nature photography, years ago. . But with pens, you need to transition to artificial lighting and macro techniques which make things a lot different. . For quick documentary posts, finesse is not important, but for the contests it now is.


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## magpens

KenB259 said:


> Umm Mal..... I didn’t post another one!!!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Penturners.org mobile app


@KenB259

My mistake (I was looking at the photo re-shown by "howsitwork" and thought it was a new one from you, Ken) ...... I am easily confused !!!


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## PenPal

magpens said:


> @KenB259
> 
> My mistake (I was looking at the photo re-shown by "howsitwork" and thought it was a new one from you, Ken) ...... I am easily confused !!!


I would love to put a cat among the pidgeons I have been a photographer for 60 yrs,penturner near 40 yrs ,don,t profess any superior knowledge. My system I have set up in the corner of my dining room,consists of a conduit frame,it is open ,on either side I fitted an LED work lamp think hardware store fitted a cardboard snoot or surround to prevent any reflections from the lights to the camera. One light set a little to the back,the other a little to the front of the pen,fixed I never touch them. On top sitting on the frame (not glued frame simply pushed together 20 minutes) I use an 8watt I call kikker strip fluro daylight corrected to give a thin strip of light on the pen. My background still using the one ream for thirty years 11 by 14 inch copy paper held at the top with tape to the frame to give an endless background. I sat this on a free four drawer cabinet,built a cross arm up from that,using 1/4 inch threaded rod a means of holding the camera to tilt down to the pen,never vary this only a pain in the bum the camera card is under the camera itself. Takes me about 5 to ten minutes from take to showing on forums 24/7. I must have bored thousands with my set up but the pen is king pics are clear and I personally like to lay the pen supported from the right on a piece of burl(whatever) lets the light form the shape. KISS principle Keep It Simple Stupid (thats for me).I will back my pen pics anywhere any time rarely had feedback even with detailed pics.Choose your way but make it repeatable.As an apprentice sparky my boss said first learn the rules then use them the best way for you after,this in the 1950,s,yes you can teach an old dog tricks. Every now and again I go arty,like riding the motor bike without an exhaust let it all out.

Kind regards Peter. Have fun I do.


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## magpens

@PenPal 

Thanks for describing your setup, Peter. . I intend to "study" your description. . May comment or question later. . THANKS AGAIN !!


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## sorcerertd

So, all these later replies make me think we need a thread to show our photo setups.  Maybe there is one already.  I'll have to search.  Mine is pretty crude and I use my phone as a camera.  Truthfully, I like the pics from my last phone (Samsung Galaxy Note 9) better than the new Note 20.   There's a learning curve on this one I have not mastered yet.  Not the best option, and I'm hoping to upgrade to a DSLR at some point, but I'm still a beginner at both making pens and taking pics of them.  People are buying my pens, which I'm still pretty tickled about, so they can't be _too_ bad.

I do know a bit about photography from my 35mm SLR days.  Lighting is the most important factor which, of course, _is _influenced by other elements in the field of view, most certainly the background.  After all, a camera lens is designed to gather light and transfer it to a medium where that one fleeting moment in time is preserved.


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## magpens

sorcerertd said:


> So, all these later replies make me think we need a thread to show our photo setups.





sorcerertd said:


> People are buying my pens, which I'm still pretty tickled about, so they can't be _too_ bad.


@sorcerertd

Good idea, Todd !!! .....

And a second suggestion ..... about how newbies break onto the pen-selling scene .... how they sell, and, of course, what they sell.
Seems that you have been successful at selling.

Always lots to learn !!


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## Sylvanite

Ken,

Your photos are indeed getting better.  I think that the addition of the diffusion cloth over the LEDs has definitely improved things.  If you hang a piece of white paper (or other white reflective surface) over the front of your tent and cut a hole in it just large enough to shoot through, that should (mostly) fix the dark stripe running down the front of your pen hardware.

Are you aware that when shooting in RAW mode, the camera does not use the white balance setting?  It includes that information in the file but white balance is actually done in post-processing.

Regards, 
Eric


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## Sylvanite

magpens said:


> It seems to me that a decent DSLR is now required, not just an iPad photo or a cell-phone photo.
> ...with pens, you need to transition to artificial lighting and macro techniques which make things a lot different.


Check out "Pen Photography Myths" and "Which Photo is Better?"


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## Sylvanite

sorcerertd said:


> So, all these later replies make me think we need a thread to show our photo setups.


Check out "Pen Photography - Putting Concept into Practice".  I posted another pic of a simple setup at https://www.penturners.org/threads/canon-sx-160-on-sale.128324/page-2#post-1735228 as well.


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## KenB259

Sylvanite said:


> Ken,
> 
> Your photos are indeed getting better. I think that the addition of the diffusion cloth over the LEDs has definitely improved things. If you hang a piece of white paper (or other white reflective surface) over the front of your tent and cut a hole in it just large enough to shoot through, that should (mostly) fix the dark stripe running down the front of your pen hardware.
> 
> Are you aware that when shooting in RAW mode, the camera does not use the white balance setting? It includes that information in the file but white balance is actually done in post-processing.
> 
> Regards,
> Eric



Thanks Eric, I did not know that RAW mode didn’t use the white balance setting. I think I’ll try a few in regular jpeg mode. Thanks for your help. 


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## magpens

@Sylvanite 

Hi Eric, .... THANK YOU for your attempts to help US with our pen photography.

I don't understand the "white balance" info, in relation to the differences between JPEG and RAW modes. . 
I'll try some general Google searching for clarification on the concept of white balance.

Mal


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## Sylvanite

magpens said:


> @Sylvanite
> 
> I don't understand the "white balance" info, in relation to the differences between JPEG and RAW modes. .


Mal,

Before saving a photo in JPEG format, the camera processes the image in multiple ways, including:

Applying white balance,
Adjusting contrast and saturation,
Sharpening,
Reducing color depth, and
Compressing.
Each of these steps  has the potential to lose image data - some more than others.  The JPEG format is ready to display, but if you want to do any image editing yourself, you are starting out with a degraded source.

RAW mode saves the image straight off the sensor without any further processing.  The format is camera-specific and not suitable for display, but preserves all the original detail for editing.

If you want a photo in ready-to-use format, then shoot in JPEG mode.  If you intend to post-process the image, and feel you can do a better job than the camera does, then shoot in RAW mode.

Take a look at "What is 'RAW' Mode?" and "Photography Basics - White Balance" for more information.

I hope that helps,
Eric


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## howsitwork

Eric, 

Many thanks for  all that and the useful references. Once I have some time I shall do some investigating and try some sets up out. I have now got a light tent to reduce background distractions .


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## magpens

@Sylvanite 

Thanks for that, Eric. . It is useful to know that RAW mode is camera-specific.

So, perhaps that means that you need software specific to your camera in order to process the RAW data. . Would that be right ?

I'll have to do some reading.

You see, I learned about photography back in the 60's well before things went digital and became quite familiar with it.
But I got rebellious with the advent of digital ... I figured it was just a passing phase and I needn't bother learning about it !! . .


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## Sylvanite

magpens said:


> @Sylvanite
> So, perhaps that means that you need software specific to your camera in order to process the RAW data. . Would that be right ?


Not every camera has a different RAW format, but each manufacturer has at least one - usually more.  Digital cameras that support RAW mode typically come with software to do some editing and convert from RAW to JPEG.  Adobe frequently updates Lightroom and Photoshop to support new cameras' RAW modes.  Major manufacturers typically also have CODECs available for download that allow 3rd party programs to interpret their RAW files.  The last time I bought a new camera body, I had to download a CODEC so that Windows Explorer could create thumbnails, and so that my favorite photo viewer could display the RAW images.


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## leehljp

Not everything in good Picts is about the equipment, I have seen and observed a lot of common sense and uncommon sense in this thread. Common sense - taking the time to observe how and which few minor changes can greatly improve the results.


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## KenB259

I’m very happy with the results I’ve achieved since the start of this thread. Took my time followed the advice that was given, best I could anyways. I want to offer thanks to all that chimed in on this. 


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## Jolie77

@KenB259 
I think your pens are very nice looking,  I don't mean to get off topic here,  but in your original post, pic 3 & 4 kits really caught my eye! I'm still trying out different ones?  Those are kinda what I'm looking for. Thank you for your time! 
Jolie


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## KenB259

Jolie77 said:


> @KenB259
> I think your pens are very nice looking, I don't mean to get off topic here, but in your original post, pic 3 & 4 kits really caught my eye! I'm still trying out different ones? Those are kinda what I'm looking for. Thank you for your time!
> Jolie


Jolie, those are the Knurl G T and the nouveau sceptre. The Knurl GT is one of my favorites, especially for segmenting. 


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## Mullanphy

A, now, aging thread, but just wanted to say the pens are fantastic and that that would not be noticed if the photos weren't top notch, too.

It's already been pointed out that photography is about the light, and one of the internet's grandest resources for learning how to use light is The Strobist's blog.  The writer is a professional photographer and his writing is also professional grade.  A good start might be to check out his archives from 15 years ago, but he also offers paid online courses.


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## KMCloonan

Ken, I feel your pain (but I think your photos are much better than most I have taken.) I did read somewhere that the dim band across the photo is due to the LEDs flickering at household frequency - Your eye can't detect it, but your camera lense can. Apparently one remedy is to adjust your shutter speed to be a multiple of the Hz. Example: 120HZ, use a shutter speed of 360. Something like that. I don't know exactly. 

I have seen other guys here take photos on an open bench, with overhead lights, and the photos come out perfect. This is my next challenge to overcome, because it really frustrates me, and I believe it is something I should be able to overcome.

Kevin


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## KenB259

KMCloonan said:


> Ken, I feel your pain (but I think your photos are much better than most I have taken.) I did read somewhere that the dim band across the photo is due to the LEDs flickering at household frequency - Your eye can't detect it, but your camera lense can. Apparently one remedy is to adjust your shutter speed to be a multiple of the Hz. Example: 120HZ, use a shutter speed of 360. Something like that. I don't know exactly.
> 
> I have seen other guys here take photos on an open bench, with overhead lights, and the photos come out perfect. This is my next challenge to overcome, because it really frustrates me, and I believe it is something I should be able to overcome.
> 
> Kevin


I think I have it down pretty well for my uses.


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