# Not happy with the piston filler in my carry pen



## Carl Fisher (Sep 20, 2012)

I'm sooooo glad this didn't happen at a show in front of a customer or over my display table.

My carry and demo FP is a Jr Gent with a piston filler since I like to change ink fairly often.  I was showing one of the cub scout parents the other night outside the scout house (luckily) and I started to take the lower section off to show the piston and copper ink just poured out of the barrel all over my hands and the ground.  I swear it looked like blood all over my hands.

It was not showing any signs of a leak and thankfully no stains anywhere that I normally carry the pen.  It was also writing fine up to that point.  

Once I got it home and over a sink, I opened it up and the filler was still connected to the feed, but empty.  Anyone have any thoughts as to how this might happen?  

I rinsed and filled with water and couldn't find any obvious leaks.  I'm really confused.


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## thewishman (Sep 20, 2012)

Jr. Gent I or Jr. Gent II, supplied filler or upgraded filler?


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## Carl Fisher (Sep 20, 2012)

Supplied filler.  I'm pretty sure it is a Jr. Gent I.  I'd have to go back and check my build logs tonight to be 100% sure.


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## mrcook4570 (Sep 20, 2012)

Did you remove the spring from the endcap?  If not, it is possible for the spring to interfere with the piston mechanism.


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## Haynie (Sep 20, 2012)

mrcook4570 said:


> Did you remove the spring from the endcap?  If not, it is possible for the spring to interfere with the piston mechanism.




I did this and it made an awful mess. but in the cap.  I assumed the OP meant in the barrel

Since the filler is empty flush with water and see if you get a good draw of water.  Might help you find a hole if there is one.


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## ed4copies (Sep 20, 2012)

Haynie said:


> mrcook4570 said:
> 
> 
> > Did you remove the spring from the endcap?  If not, it is possible for the spring to interfere with the piston mechanism.
> ...



Mark, I learned VERY recently that a piston filler MAY draw water just as it should but does not draw ink in the same manner.

I realize this defies logic----I believe the pen was shown to me by PTownSubbie (not certain, I see a lot of "sick" pens).  

Drawing water is still a good plan---but not fool-proof for diagnosing the problem!!

Hope this helps someone,
Ed


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## Carl Fisher (Sep 20, 2012)

It does draw water with no problems and even draws ink still.  I rinsed and cleaned out everything just so I could let it sit for a few days while I figured out what the next step would be.

I do still have the spring in there and yes the leak was inside the barrel, not the cap.  I'm wondering if there is a seal problem between the filler and the feed that over time it just leaked out.  I might just throw a new filler on there and see where that leads.  I'm starting to see the benefit to threaded vs. press on fillers.


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## Haynie (Sep 20, 2012)

I wonder why that is ed?

Carl, you said you change inks a lot in the first post, are you filling through the nib or are you taking the filler off the feed and filling that way.


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## Carl Fisher (Sep 20, 2012)

Filling through the nib.  I've been jumping between private reserve colors as I get a feel for what I like and don't like.  

Every couple of weeks I will pull it apart, clean it all out and change ink.  I'll dispose of whatever ink is left in the filler by pulling it from the pen and forcing out the ink and then flushing everything.  Then I'll put it all back together and flush again by pulling water through the nib a few times until everything is clear and clean.  Then I'll let it sit and dry for a day and fill it up by pulling through the nib.


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## Haynie (Sep 20, 2012)

I am no fountain pen expert but I did stay at a holiday in express once. hehe.  I am pitching ideas here.

There are press fittings on boat motors that are supposed to be removed every great once in a while .  SOme folks remove them quite often and the fittings become loose and the hose needs to be replaced.  I bet the same thing happened in this instance.


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## Ed McDonnell (Sep 20, 2012)

Here's some thoughts:

1) If it's a metal section from a kit, look at it with a loupe and see if there are any kinks, burrs or obvious flat spots on the id of the section where the converter is inserted. 

2) Maybe you are not getting full contact between the feed nipple and the converter.  Have you upgraded the feed?  You should be able to check the depth of the feed in the section using a set of calipers, if you have them.  Check that depth against your converter.

3) Remove the feed and nib from the section.  Fill your converter with soapy water .  Attach it to the section and put soapy water in the section (but don't completely fill it).  Blow into the section (like a straw (without sucking down soapy water)).  See if you have any drips or bubbles anywhere.  If not, empty everything, attach the converter to the section and blow again.  Look for bubbles.  May be a complete waste of time, but maybe not.

Ed


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## Carl Fisher (Sep 20, 2012)

Sounds like a bunch of good suggestions to try.  Thanks guys!  Since I'm still on the new-ish side to FPs, little things like this I'm viewing as learning experiences.

Stock feeder and converter but upgraded nib.  I didn't think of pulling the whole feeder assembly out and checking the fit up close and personal.  Probably the best place to start.  

I think worst case scenario, I'll replace the feed and converter and call it a day but I'm more concerned with what to watch for on customer pens for an ounce of prevention before handing it over.


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## OKLAHOMAN (Sep 20, 2012)

If using a piston pump you* MUST* remove the spring for the rollerball from the final, if not it will screw the piston down when you screw the section on and you'll have ink all over when because it can lift the pump off of the feed and spray ink into the body.


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## azamiryou (Sep 20, 2012)

+1 on blaming the spring. If the spring grabbed the piston knob, unscrewing the section simultaneously moves the piston in the "push out the ink" direction, tugs the converter away from the section, and very likely jiggles it. That tug and jiggle could open a gap while the piston puts pressure on the ink, causing a big leak even without completely detaching the converter from the section.


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## Carl Fisher (Sep 20, 2012)

That may just be the cause and definitely good to know.  I'll make the change and see what comes of it.

Thanks!


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## Dan_F (Sep 21, 2012)

In fountain pen speak, a "piston filler" is a filling system which is built into the pen, such as those made by Pelikan, Mont Blanc, Omas, and I believe Bexley makes at least one piston fill model. There are lower end piston fillers as well, most notably the relatively new TWSBI, and a number of really inexpensive pens made in India. 

You are speaking about what is generally known as a "cartridge converter", which though it works on the same principal, is looked at very differently by a certain segment of the fountain pen market, who believe that a "real" pen should have an integral filling system. Most piston fillers will hold a lot more ink than a CC, which is seen as an advantage, and of course it is much more difficult for a single craftsman to make economically. 

I find CC's to be perfectly acceptable, and even have some advantages - being easy to check ink level (in those that don't have an ink window or translucent barrel), and ease of flushing before changing ink colors.  There are many high end pens that use CC's, including Japanese hand painted Macki-e pens that go into five figure prices, so no shame in using them, just best not to get the names mixed up when talking to potential customers.

Dan


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