# Hey ... where's the forum for polyclay blanks?



## Skie_M

Like ... there's nothing here ... Toni, help us out?? :bulgy-eyes:


pwease???  :redface:


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## Edgar

What kind of information are you looking for? 

The basics of making polyclay pens is pretty simple. There's a ton of YouTube videos on the subject and there's an excellent tutorial in the IAP library: Polymer Clay Blanks

You're right that there hasn't been a whole lot of discussion on it in the Blank Making forum so far, but feel free to post whatever questions you might have.


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## Toni

Check out my link in my signature


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## chartle

It seems like Toni is the only other one doing polymer.

I just started this weekend and don't have anything to post just yet but my test looks very promising. I would have had a pen last night but I had a blowout and didn't have anything else baked to redo it. 

I'm not into the canes but trying to do faux stone using the chop it up and coat it with paint technique. Oh and Toni had this idea before I saw your amazing blank. In fact I picked up a cheap brick of PC before I even knew people used it for blanks. :good:

Toni for that "marble" blank was that done on the tube or is it drilled and glued?


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## Toni

Cliff it was done on a tube!! Good luck!!


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## chartle

Toni said:


> Cliff it was done on a tube!! Good luck!!



:worship: I guess I've seen your tubes on the Facebook Pen tuners groups for longer than I've been a member here and first thought you painted and cast them. I then found out about canes and was totally amazed. 

I drilled mine but reinforced it with glued on popsicle sticks. Easiest thing in the world to drill just don't let it get hot. Oddly I had to make the hole a tad bigger than the 7 mm bit i've been using.

One more question. Have read your tut in the library a few times about the various clays but which would you say is the best for turning?


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## Toni

I would have to say Premo, Fimo or Kato


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## chartle

Toni said:


> I would have to say Premo, Fimo or Kato



Thanks, I bought mostly Premo. But couldn't pass up the $6 one pound of Sculpty from Wal Mart for my tests.


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## edstreet

Painted??  Hardly.


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## chartle

Here is my first real attempt.


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## lorbay

Looks good Ed, now lets see it rolled out into a thin cane to the size that will fit on a pen tube.

Lin


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## edstreet

lorbay said:


> Looks good Ed, now lets see it rolled out into a thin cane to the size that will fit on a pen tube.
> 
> Lin



It's Toni's cane.
















I was trying to show some insight into the complexity and how much is missed when they think painted, stickers and similar corner cutting methods.


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## plantman

edohmann said:


> What kind of information are you looking for?
> 
> The basics of making polyclay pens is pretty simple. There's a ton of YouTube videos on the subject and there's an excellent tutorial in the IAP library: Polymer Clay Blanks
> 
> You're right that there hasn't been a whole lot of discussion on it in the Blank Making forum so far, but feel free to post whatever questions you might have.



Ed makes several good points here. 1- There are only 3 simple steps to making polymer clay pens. Apply the clay to the tubes, bake, and turn !! You don't even have to turn them if you don't have a lathe. Toni's tutorial  is excellent, but, don't expect to produce, over night, the results she gets with her many years of working with clay, design, and skills !! 2- YouTube has a ton of videos on pen making with poly. some are simple, some are more detailed and use different methods of applying and  working the clay. 3- There are quite a few people on this site who make polymer clay pens, and articles in the library giving hints and tips. Making the pen out of polymer is the easy part, making the blank is what takes the practice and skill. 4- If you want to make stone like blanks, I would suggest buying the book " The Art of Polymer Clay Millefiori Techniques by Donna Kato. It will show you how to blend colors together for different effects. Watch for a coupon for 40-50% off one item from your local craft store or JoAnn's fabrics to purchase. 5- If you want to make the fancy designs, you are going to have to purchase ready made canes from some polymer artist and learn how to slice and blend them into something attractive. 6- If you want to even get a foot on the ground floor of making pens like Toni's, you are going to have to learn how to make your own canes !!! There are many videos out there that will guide you, but it takes hands on skill, time, practice, and many mistakes  to make anything even  remotely close to the products that Toni puts out !! You could fill a whole web site with just the basics of cane making, so I would suggest if you have a question just ask, someone will point you in the right direction or have an answer for you.    Jim  S


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## Skie_M

I tried making something similar to alabaster, but I used too much color ... I have another thread up detailing the process (Tie-Dyed Pens).













I agree that Toni's work is just plain awesome.  I hope that someday, I can get to a point where my work would be half as impressive. 


Link to Tie-Died Pens thread.


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## mark james

Cliff; for a first attempt, they look pretty good!  NICE!


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## plantman

chartle said:


> Toni said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cliff it was done on a tube!! Good luck!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :worship: I guess I've seen your tubes on the Facebook Pen tuners groups for longer than I've been a member here and first thought you painted and cast them. I then found out about canes and was totally amazed.
> 
> I drilled mine but reinforced it with glued on popsicle sticks. Easiest thing in the world to drill just don't let it get hot. Oddly I had to make the hole a tad bigger than the 7 mm bit i've been using.
> 
> One more question. Have read your tut in the library a few times about the various clays but which would you say is the best for turning?
Click to expand...


Cliff; Drilling your poly blanks is doing you at least 4 disservices. 1- It's a waste of poly to make a solid blank and than drill out the center and turn the outside down to size. 2- It opens you up to a failure of the blank because it's not bound together by any fibers or resins. 3- It really shuts down and limits your creative design. 4- There is no need to add reinforcement or glue to the blank if you apply it to the tubes directly. If you look at ED's thread above, showing a cane with a butterfly in it, there is no way to drill it and have anything left after turning it that even represents a butterfly. Work your clay, apply it directly to the tubes, bake, and turn. Simple and easy !!!!    Jim  S


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## Skie_M

Toni also doesn't glue the PC to her pen tubes ... I didn't either.  I rolled the polyclay on and pressed/pinched it and stretched it to adhere it to the tube and remove all the air bubbles.  I then baked them .... click the link and it'll take you to my tie-died pens thread where I describe the full process.


Now, while Toni makes her blanks exactly to size where all you'ld need to do is some touch-up sanding and then finishing on the lathe, mine were turned on the lathe after baking.  She did recently make a very VERY nice black marble blank that ended up getting turned on the lathe, though...  She says it's her first that has gone through that process and held up.


Also ... I always mix my polyclays.  Right now, I'm playing with a mix of Sculpey III and some Premo here, Fimo there ...


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## chartle

The reason I had/have to drill them is how the blank is made. I chop up the clay into random pieces and coat it with black acrylic paint. After the paint dries, the PC is laid down just like it would for real stone layer by layer. For my first try this was the best way to do it. If  you look at my pic thats one section and the "layers" look just like they should. Added from the top not placed around the blank. 

I'm not knocking any other technique but this is the look I'm trying to achieve and its the best way I can figure out how to do it now.

My second try didn't work out so well because I used Premo instead of the Sculpey(not III, I guess the original) I used for the test. The Sculpey after the paint dried was very oily, the Premo semi sticky. My procedure was to use a 1/2" PVC tube and compress the "layers" together. It worked better than expected for the Sculpey but since the Premo was sticky it got hung up on the sides of the PVC and not sure what happened but it didn't make nice layers. It kind of mixed the dried paint into the clay. This is what I expected for my test and again was pleasantly surprised. 

I think my next test is to make more of a flat mold and come up with a way to mold the clay around the blank.

My goal is to make semi precious stone like turquoise or marble with gold running through the veins. I know I can get True Stone but I wanted to try something for myself.   I bought the perfect random chunk gold glitter yesterday.


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## plantman

chartle said:


> The reason I had/have to drill them is how the blank is made. I chop up the clay into random pieces and coat it with black acrylic paint. After the paint dries, the PC is laid down just like it would for real stone layer by layer. For my first try this was the best way to do it. If  you look at my pic thats one section and the "layers" look just like they should. Added from the top not placed around the blank.
> 
> I'm not knocking any other technique but this is the look I'm trying to achieve and its the best way I can figure out how to do it now.
> 
> My second try didn't work out so well because I used Premo instead of the Sculpey(not III, I guess the original) I used for the test. The Sculpey after the paint dried was very oily, the Premo semi sticky. My procedure was to use a 1/2" PVC tube and compress the "layers" together. It worked better than expected for the Sculpey but since the Premo was sticky it got hung up on the sides of the PVC and not sure what happened but it didn't make nice layers. It kind of mixed the dried paint into the clay. This is what I expected for my test and again was pleasantly surprised.
> 
> I think my next test is to make more of a flat mold and come up with a way to mold the clay around the blank.
> 
> My goal is to make semi precious stone like turquoise or marble with gold running through the veins. I know I can get True Stone but I wanted to try something for myself.   I bought the perfect random chunk gold glitter yesterday.



Cliff; I have one question for you. Do you use a pasta machine to work and blend your clay ??  Trial and error is one of the best way to learn. Seeing as the semi precious stone look is what you want to achieve, may I suggest you  go on YouTube, and under polymer clay, look up some videos on how to make Mokume Gane designs in clay form. I have used this method to make stone like blanks for pens. If you use layers of turquoise and black clay with layers of gold foil mixed in here and there, it will give you the veins of gold running through your blank you are looking for. The Mokume Gane method uses everyday objects such as knitting needles, pen ends, and other objects to distort the straight lines of the layers and produce unique one of a kind patterns in the clay. Jim  S


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## Skie_M

My suggestion .... bake a solid color layer and then break THAT into chunks .... mold your alternate color around the broken pieces and get all the air out ... wrap your pen tubes and bake again (yes, you can bake multiple times).

After that, you can either take very light cuts with a very sharp lathe tool or just go straight to sandpaper (abranet highly recommended ... doesn't load and you can sand VERY fast with it!  )

Finish with CA or some kind of polyurethane .... perhaps some kind of friction polish wax (I prefer CA).


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## chartle

Latest try 

Having issues with the finish.

These were done on tube. The "cracks" are embossing powder.


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## SSobel

There should absolutely be a Clay blank category. My 15 yr old LOVES making blanks for me to turn!...She made one the other day that I'm letting harden up...I can't WAIT to turn it! and I want to show off her work somewhere!


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## chartle

SSobel said:


> There should absolutely be a Clay blank category. My 15 yr old LOVES making blanks for me to turn!...She made one the other day that I'm letting harden up...I can't WAIT to turn it! and I want to show off her work somewhere!



Any tips for hardening for turning besides the obvious bake at 275 for X number of minutes per 1/4". I've heard the plunging in ice water but I've seen some tests that it does nothing.

Does letting it sit around for a few days after baking help? I usually want to turn them right away.


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## edstreet

chartle said:


> Any tips for hardening for turning besides the obvious bake at 275 for X number of minutes per 1/4". I've heard the plunging in ice water but I've seen some tests that it does nothing.  Does letting it sit around for a few days after baking help? I usually want to turn them right away.



Why would it?


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## SSobel

I'm no expert (really)...but I've noticed that after a couple of weeks, they seem to get harder. I don't know if it's me or what I'm drinking, but they have a more..."petrified" feel to them when they've sat a little while, and I feel better about scraping or sanding on them...Again, Toni's the expert!


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## Skie_M

chartle said:


> SSobel said:
> 
> 
> 
> There should absolutely be a Clay blank category. My 15 yr old LOVES making blanks for me to turn!...She made one the other day that I'm letting harden up...I can't WAIT to turn it! and I want to show off her work somewhere!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any tips for hardening for turning besides the obvious bake at 275 for X number of minutes per 1/4". I've heard the plunging in ice water but I've seen some tests that it does nothing.
> 
> Does letting it sit around for a few days after baking help? I usually want to turn them right away.
Click to expand...


The chilling can help make the clay stiffer in preparation for cutting canes or making it not quite so sticky.  I've found out through research that getting it wet wont do the trick to recondition your clay, but adding liquid sculpey can certainly help a lot in that respect.

As your clay is baking, it's removing all the volatile oils and catalyzing the components within the clay in preparation for polymerization.  Letting the clay cool down SLOWLY ... over a span of 4 - 6 hours, is a key component in letting the clay become hard and strong, rather than hard and brittle.  Don't turn it right away .... bake it at night and let it sit till morning, and your results will be better.


Letting it sit around for more than that long is fine, but shouldn't really improve things, but letting it sit overnight to properly cool undisturbed will help a lot.


As for letting something "harden up" over a period of several days .... does this clay you are referring to happen to be an "Air-Hardening" variety of clay?  I have no experience working with that type yet, so I can't give you any advice concerning that.



A possible "molding" method would include using a center form and packing the clay around it within a larger round form (use 2 widely different sizes of PVC pipe)  Once it has been packed in well, press it out of the larger tube first, using a close fitting section of PVC pipe, and then remove the inner core, unless you used a brass barrel tube for your inner core, obviously.


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## plantman

edstreet said:


> chartle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any tips for hardening for turning besides the obvious bake at 275 for X number of minutes per 1/4". I've heard the plunging in ice water but I've seen some tests that it does nothing.  Does letting it sit around for a few days after baking help? I usually want to turn them right away.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why would it?
Click to expand...


A lesson in Materials Science: Question: Why would plunging Polymer Clay in cold water, after heating, have any effect on it ? Answer: Plunging, or quenching, is a type of heat treating. It is the rapid cooling of a heated work-piece in order to obtain certain material properties. It prevents low-temperature processes, such as phase transformation, from occurring by providing a narrow window of time in which the reaction is both thermodynamically  favorable and kinetically accessible. It can reduce crystallinity and thereby increasing the hardness of both alloys and plastics. A process called polymerization. I have used this method on all polymer blanks I have made in the past, and have been able to take my blanks directly to the lathe to turn with no waiting. Same process is used on metals to harden them in order to take a sharper edge. Extremely rapid cooling can prevent the formation of all crystal structure, resulting in amorphous metal or "metallic glass". Short answer: Yes, plunging or quenching does have an effect on materials !!!    Jim   S


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## edstreet

Skie_M said:


> As your clay is baking, it's removing all the volatile oils and catalyzing the components within the clay in preparation for polymerization.




Wait wait wait.  ....   Volatile oils?

The only 'oil' is not 'removed' but chained with other elements.  By removal you would have weight loss and mass reduction. Which you do not. So this line is flat wrong.


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## edstreet

Oh and btw.  Polymer clay does *NOT* polymerize.


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## chartle

Skie_M said:


> *As for letting something "harden up" over a period of several days .... does this clay you are referring to happen to be an "Air-Hardening" variety of clay?  I have no experience working with that type yet, so I can't give you any advice concerning that.*



No just regular Polymer Clay my question was whether or not letting ti sit after baking makes a difference.


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## Skie_M

So ... how does polyclay "dry out".


You can agree, ed, or you can be wrong.  Pick one.


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## edstreet

Skie_M said:


> So ... how does polyclay "dry out".
> 
> 
> You can agree, ed, or you can be wrong.  Pick one.



Ok some background education for you.

When clay is made, vinyl chloride (monomer) is polymerized (makes PVC powder). Then mixed with plasticizers, fillers, heat stabilizers, dye/pigment/etc to make clay, pipes, tubing, floors, whatever.

The difference between pipes and clay is the additives used by each manufacture.  Not much different than CA is for that matter.


Plasticizers promote plasticity and flexibility, the more flexible the product is the higher % in the mix.  Phthalate esters use to be used but they were short lived and replaced with other materials which are safer, i.e. Eastman 168.  

Plasticizers does evaporate and likes to build up in enclosed space, it is called "Plasticizer Migration".  For this reason long sitting uncured clay will dry out and become hard.  Also the same reason uncured clay will leech out in the union presence of various materials.


Hope this helps :beer:


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## Skie_M

Yes, that does help.

The plasticizers that evaporate out would be considered the "volatiles" that leave the clay dried out and hard when they're gone.

I like this sort of response from you ... you took the time to fully explain the issue rather than giving a short answer stating that someone is flat wrong, with no qualifications on how or why.




I haven't exactly been trained in working with polyclay.  All of what I know is from watching vids online and taking a partially available online course in sculpting...  I'ld love to get more solid info to work with, however.


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## plantman

edstreet said:


> Skie_M said:
> 
> 
> 
> So ... how does polyclay "dry out".
> 
> 
> You can agree, ed, or you can be wrong.  Pick one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok some background education for you.
> 
> When clay is made, vinyl chloride (monomer) is polymerized (makes PVC powder). Then mixed with plasticizers, fillers, heat stabilizers, dye/pigment/etc to make clay, pipes, tubing, floors, whatever.
> 
> The difference between pipes and clay is the additives used by each manufacture.  Not much different than CA is for that matter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Plasticizers promote plasticity and flexibility, the more flexible the product is the higher % in the mix.  Phthalate esters use to be used but they were short lived and replaced with other materials which are safer, i.e. Eastman 168.
> 
> Plasticizers does evaporate and likes to build up in enclosed space, it is called "Plasticizer Migration".  For this reason long sitting uncured clay will dry out and become hard.  Also the same reason uncured clay will leech out in the union presence of various materials.
> 
> 
> Hope this helps :beer:
Click to expand...


Excellent answer ED !!! I don't mind long answers as long as they explain the subject in full and don't get off the track. I would like to add several other facts to your tweet if you don't mind. First- There are no clay minerals in most  polymer clays only the mix, with a few changes by different makers, that you stated above. Second- If you overheat, char, or burn Polymer clay it will give off a small amount of hydrogen chloride gas that may cause odor and some eye or nose irritation. The amount of hydrogen chloride gas released from the clay could cause health problems. Third- All polymer clay products are NOT labeled as "food safe" Plasticizers remain in the cured product and can leach out, making it a potential health hazard for both the modeler and end user. Restrictions on the use of certain phthalates took effect in 2009 in both the European Union and the United States. Not all phthalates pose a health risk and some are approved for medical applications.   Jim  S


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## plantman

Why is it called Polymer Clay if there are no clay minerals in it's make up ??? Polymer Clay is a type of hardenable modeling substance based on the polymer polyvinyl chloride (PVC). It typically contains no clay minerals, but like mineral clay a liquid is added to dry particles until it achieves gel-like working properties, and similarly, the part is placed into an oven to harden, thus its colloquial designation as clay. Bakelite was an early form of plastic and was popular with designers and was the early form of polymer clay, but the phenol base of uncured Bakelite was flammable and eventually discontinued. Polymer Clays were first formulated as a replacement for Bakelite. Polymer clay contains a basis of PVC resin and a liquid plasticizer, making it a plastisol. Polymer clay plastisol is also categorized as a plastigel because of its rheological properties. It is a high yield thixotopic material: This means that when a sufficient force is applied the material  yields, flows like a viscous liquid until that force is removed, whereupon it returns to being a solid. Plastigels retain their shape even when heat is applied, explaining why polymer clay does not melt or droop when over cured. Various gelling agents are added to give it this property such as aminated bentonite, metallic soaps, or  fumed silica. End of chemistry lesson for today !!!    Jim  S


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## JonLyksett

*clay?*

It's probably called clay for the same reason that what the Brits call 'plasticene' and we call 'modeling clay' is called clay.  It's not a scientific, but a semantic convention. It's a moldable substance that kids (and adults) fiddle with and make things out of that is similar in texture and workability as the clay that you dig out of the river bank.


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## plantman

JonLyksett said:


> It's probably called clay for the same reason that what the Brits call 'plasticene' and we call 'modeling clay' is called clay.  It's not a scientific, but a semantic convention. It's a moldable substance that kids (and adults) fiddle with and make things out of that is similar in texture and workability as the clay that you dig out of the river bank.



:coffee:  You are 100% correct !! It has nothing to do with science, only the process and projects it is used for. Modelling Clay is a generic name used for a group of malleable substances used in building and sculpting, and vary in both material and production processes. Few products, such as polymer clay, modelling clay, or placticine, that go by the name "clay", actually do not contain any clay minerals. Oil based clay is made up of oils, waxes, and clay minerals that remain malleable when left for long periods in dry conditions and can not be fired because the viscosity of the oil decreases as the temperature rises. It is used a lot in animation. Ceramic clays are water based substances made from clay minerals mixed with other raw materials such as cellulose fiber for strength. They are baked at high temperatures and mostly used to make ceramics such as terracotta, earthenware, stoneware, and porcelain. Just a note to anyone wanting to make polymer  pens !! Look for "clay" that needs heat to harden !!  Modelling clay should be labeled non hardening on the package.   Jim  S


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## edstreet

Yet some modeling clay does indeed harden.


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