# PSI Mandrel Saver tailstock



## glycerine (Dec 16, 2009)

Has anyone used the Mandrel Saver tailstock from PSI?  It's basically a tailstock with a hole drilled all the way through the center.  So instead of putting the brass nut on the end of your mandrel and tightening it against your bushings, when you slide the tailstock up, the mandrel goes right through the center and the tailstock itself touches the bushings.  Looks very interesting, almost like turning between centers, but you can do the cap and body at the same time.  No pressure is put on the mandrel itself when tightening everything up...
I'd like to get opinions if anyone has tried it, or if you think it's worth me trying.  They're only $14.95.


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## rjwolfe3 (Dec 16, 2009)

I haven't but for that price I just might in the spring.


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## razor524 (Dec 16, 2009)

I thought those looked pretty interesting myself.  I wonder how they work.


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## RosezPenZ (Dec 17, 2009)

Looked great so I tried to order one tuesday.  Guess what, PSI is backordered until middle of Jan.  So, makes me wonder, Did they have any to start with or all fly off the shelf?  I would like to hear from anyone that has one.  How do you like it?


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## jwoodwright (Dec 17, 2009)

*Just an idea...*

Using the original live center on the Jet mini, remove the center point and you can allow the mandrel end to go through the hollow tailstock...   Might have to use a washer at the live center when using slimline bushings...


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## Randy_ (Dec 17, 2009)

fromRosezWoodshop said:


> Looked great so I tried to order one tuesday. *Guess what, PSI is backordered until middle of Jan. So, makes me wonder, Did they have any to start with or all fly off the shelf?* I would like to hear from anyone that has one. How do you like it?


 
That seems to be a frequent occurrence with new products at PSI.  Can't say for sure; but my guess is the sales staff get a little ahead of the distribution folks and they start advertising the products before they are actually in hand.


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## leehljp (Dec 17, 2009)

Except for turning the slimline series - buying a single dead center and turning between centers is CHEAPER on the pocketbook and the accuracy is better than on a mandrel, overall.

The difference: A mandrel costs more that a dead center. Both can use the same bushings. For people concerned with cost, why keep on using a mandrel and buying things for a mandrel. 

No need to look for a part that will make the mandrel "more accurate' when the accuracy is there when you eliminate the whole setup. 

The only advantages to a mandrel are: 1. Slimlines (but SL bushings for TBC can be purchased) and 2. the "need" to do both blanks at the same time (which still will have problems with potential mandrel flex when doing two.) BTW, "Cheaper" is not on the side of mandrels when starting with the basics - except for slimlines only.


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## PenPal (Dec 17, 2009)

*PSI  Mandrel Saver tailstock*

Cheap as chips employs the same basic reasoning I use in my Taig Lathe where I made a Tailstock with bearings and an insert of brass in the centre of the bearing where the mandrel nests about 1/2 an inch some years ago.
My VL100 lathe is fitted with a removeable centre live centre fitted with a brass insert snug fit to the mandrel end by 3/8 of an inch.
My design Pen Mill, the Mandrel is inserted at the Tail Stock end by a brass bush snug fit in the short hole in the tailstock.
Recently bought a Beall Pen Wizard 2nd hand done 10 pens. Replaced the screw with point that held the mandrel in that machine with a screw with a snug recess to fit the Mandrel so when held this way it is more supported.

In short for many many years it was apparent one of the weakest engineered part of penmaking is bringing the tail stock point to the mandrel IMHO.

Now someone is manufacturing this through PI I say about time.

Never have i seen something so cheap. The last live centre for my VL100 was custom made on C and C by a guy following the gift of a Slimline Pen it is made from high grade steel. I have never turned more than 1/2 a pen at a time for 15 yrs also because I witnessed guys turning two blanks resting their fingers on the shafting via the first turned half, have more respect for my fingers as they tried to prevent the whip involved. 

Turning between centres has become the way to go and I agree anything is better than the Mandrel held by the point in a live stock. My 2c worth.

Regards Peter.

PS using the collet style half length mandrel is sound and true for me. Hi Hank.


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## John M (Dec 17, 2009)

I dont know if it is cheaper to turn between centers.  I already have the mandrel and the bushings, so 15 bucks and I am set.  I have bought the dead center and bushings to turn between centers, and that cost me quite a bit, and that was only for one pen.  So i would have to rebuy all my bushings.  Those bushing for turning between centers are not cheap, but i will say that the quality is there and does warrant the price.


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## Randy_ (Dec 17, 2009)

John M said:


> I dont know if it is cheaper to turn between centers. I already have the mandrel and the bushings, so 15 bucks and I am set. I have bought the dead center and bushings to turn between centers, and that cost me quite a bit, and that was only for one pen.* So i would have to rebuy all my bushings*. Those bushing for turning between centers are not cheap, but i will say that the quality is there and does warrant the price.


 
Depending upon the kit, you may be able to use the stock bushings and not have to buy new. And depending upon how your shop is tooled up, you might be able to turn your own bushings.
 
Also note that PSI says there is a 0.245" limit on mandrel diameter.  This means that Berea mandrels and those purchased from BB will most likely not work with this rig.  CSUSA mandrels are going to be a tight fit at best and may not work either.  Bottom line.....you are taking bit of a risk with compatibility issues unless you are using only PSI mandrels.


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## mickr (Dec 17, 2009)

I have never seen this product..so I cannot comment..the idea seems a tad goofy, trying to make silk out of a sow's ear..between centers is taking many variables out of the equation, leaving less room for error...this "new" product just adds variables...you can use your stock bushings with between centers, and you only need a  dead center type center..grizzly has them and they are under 20.00


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## dustmaker (Dec 17, 2009)

I think the name sounds a bit goofy to...mandrel saver.  I commend the attempt to improve the solution, but I have listened to Hank's (and others) preaching on TBC long enough that I am about to pull the trigger and chuck the mandrel for turning. 
Someone help clarify for me, I thought you needed Johnny's 60 degree bushings for TBC?  Except for the fact that Johnny's are CNC'd and tend to be higher tolerance than some of the stock bushings, do you lose anything else using the stock bushings?


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## rjwolfe3 (Dec 17, 2009)

You can use stock bushings for TBC unless they are the slimline type then you really should get Johnnycnc's bushings. But remember that some factory bushings do come out of round brand new and using Johnnycnc's bushing eliminate that from the equation.


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## dustmaker (Dec 17, 2009)

rjwolfe3 said:


> You can use stock bushings for TBC unless they are the slimline type then you really should get Johnnycnc's bushings. But remember that some factory bushings do come out of round brand new and using Johnnycnc's bushing eliminate that from the equation.



Thanks,  I just read Johnny's answer to the same question in another thread:
http://www.penturners.org/forum/showpost.php?p=944604&postcount=9


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## glycerine (Dec 17, 2009)

leehljp said:


> Except for turning the slimline series - buying a single dead center and turning between centers is CHEAPER on the pocketbook and the accuracy is better than on a mandrel, overall.
> 
> The difference: A mandrel costs more that a dead center. Both can use the same bushings. For people concerned with cost, why keep on using a mandrel and buying things for a mandrel.
> 
> ...


 
This is what I'm looking for.  I just feel like I have a better "picture" when I can turn the cap and body at the same time.  I don't have the amount of experience that alot of you gentlemen have and it helps me to have them side by side to make sure I get the bow just right, or the cap isn't to large for the body or vice versa, etc.
But I agree with you, the mandrel can still flex from the pressure of the tools, not necessarily the pressure from the brass nut...


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## glycerine (Dec 17, 2009)

Randy_ said:


> Depending upon the kit, you may be able to use the stock bushings and not have to buy new. And depending upon how your shop is tooled up, you might be able to turn your own bushings.
> 
> Also note that PSI says there is a 0.245" limit on mandrel diameter. This means that Berea mandrels and those purchased from BB will most likely not work with this rig. CSUSA mandrels are going to be a tight fit at best and may not work either. Bottom line.....you are taking bit of a risk with compatibility issues unless you are using only PSI mandrels.


 
Good point.


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## sbell111 (Dec 17, 2009)

Randy_ said:


> That seems to be a frequent occurrence with new products at PSI.  Can't say for sure; but my guess is the sales staff get a little ahead of the distribution folks and they start advertising the products before they are actually in hand.


A more likely scenario is tht they initially only have a limited number of newly introduced items in stock just in case the item isn't popular.


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## jleiwig (Dec 17, 2009)

My guess would be it's going to be introduced as a new product just like the new lathe.  Both will be available for purchase jan 10th I believe.  They probably don't have a way to indicate that on their website other than say it's not in stock.


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