# CA problems



## Ted1 (May 8, 2010)

I have yet to perfect my CA technique. I have tried different ways, watched videos, but everytime I finish a pen, I think perfect! and see a cloud. It is usually a clouded ring at the nib or the end cap. Ihave the same resluts using thin and Med ca. Same with BLO/CA and Straight CA, same w/wet/dry sand, and w/MM. My best results have come from sand to 320, 1 coat thin, 6 coats Med CA, MM, Plast-X.....always a cloud. I use DNA after I turn, I wash my hands, and don't touch the blank. I use very little BLO when I use it, I've tried Paper towels and plastic bags. I think I'm just going to switch to acrylics........


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## its_virgil (May 8, 2010)

Ditch the alcohol. Alcohol will attract moisture. It is used in gasoline tanks to get rid of water. The water dissolves into the alcohol. If you must use something to clean the blanks use acetone or accelerator...not accelerator in the spray can but from the bottle. I suppose the spray will work.
Do a good turn daily!
Don


Ted1 said:


> I have yet to perfect my CA technique. I have tried different ways, watched videos, but everytime I finish a pen, I think perfect! and see a cloud. It is usually a clouded ring at the nib or the end cap. Ihave the same resluts using thin and Med ca. Same with BLO/CA and Straight CA, same w/wet/dry sand, and w/MM. My best results have come from sand to 320, 1 coat thin, 6 coats Med CA, MM, Plast-X.....always a cloud. I use DNA after I turn, I wash my hands, and don't touch the blank. I use very little BLO when I use it, I've tried Paper towels and plastic bags. I think I'm just going to switch to acrylics........


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## ldb2000 (May 8, 2010)

Try using just thin CA , about 10 coats . Stop using DNA to wipe down your blanks , wipe them down with a CLEAN , DRY paper towel instead . The DNA absorbs water from the air and then you wipe a very dry wood with the DNA/water and you end up with clouded finishes . The reason you see the clouding at the end of the pen is because the end grain absorbs the DNA/water faster and to a greater extent .
"KISS" is the key word here . Too many people make this simple operation complicated . Do the simplest finish you can , learn to make it work then complicate it if you want .

Your too fast for me Don :biggrin:


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## its_virgil (May 8, 2010)

Sitting in a hotel room in Provo Utah waiting for my flight home tomorrow morning...tired after doing 5 demos in 3 days.
Do a good turn daily!
Don


ldb2000 said:


> Your too fast for me Don :biggrin:


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## Ted1 (May 8, 2010)

I've actually had this problem before using DNA, I just started using DNA today with the same results. I have used 6-8 coats of thin CA before, with the same results, I think i've tried everything. We'll see what happens tomorrow with no DNA and 10 coats thin.
Thanks
Ted


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## ldb2000 (May 8, 2010)

What kind of woods are you trying to finish ? Some woods don't like taking a CA finish and will give you fits trying . Try using a easy to finish wood like a nice Curly Maple . Again just keep it as simple as you can , no accelerator between coats and give it a few minutes between each coat .


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## Ted1 (May 9, 2010)

Lets see, I've tried Cocobolo, Bocote, B-Eye maple, spalted maple, zebrawood, bloodwood, stab. buckeye, B. Rosewood, and a few others. I really like the acrylic I tried today, so nice to put out a pen I'm happy with, and can't find any faults in.


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## glen r (May 9, 2010)

Use a sanding sealer first - Minwax works fine for me.  After that you can use the CA with no chance of any moisture getting into the wood.


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## its_virgil (May 9, 2010)

Cocobolo and other oily woods are not good choices for a CA glue finish. CA glue will not stick to oily surfaces. Even if the oil is washed off it will soon rise to the top of the pen surface under the CA and cause problems. Stabilized wood does not need a finish. The acrylic in the wood will sand and polish to as high a gloss as you want. That's the beauty of stabilized wood, plus it will not crack.
Do a good turn daily!
Don



Ted1 said:


> Lets see, I've tried Cocobolo, Bocote, B-Eye maple, spalted maple, zebrawood, bloodwood, stab. buckeye, B. Rosewood, and a few others. I really like the acrylic I tried today, so nice to put out a pen I'm happy with, and can't find any faults in.


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## ldb2000 (May 9, 2010)

Any of the rosewoods can give you a hard time but the maples shouldn't be a problem and the stabilized buckeye should be the easiest since it is already part plastic . If you have any more of the buckeye , give that a try with just a straight thin CA finish . Make sure that it is completely dry between each coat and don't sand between every coat , every third coat would be ok and don't sand all the CA off , just level the surface . 
Use either a plastic baggie or some wax paper to apply the CA and don't put too much CA on each coat , 2 or 3 drops is enough for a Sierra sized barrel and don't over work it , just get it even . I'm sure with a little perseverance you will get the hang of it . 
Once you get it on the less oily woods then try your hand with the rosewoods .


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## Ted1 (May 9, 2010)

Thanks for the help, I just cranked out two perfect finishes. One was a walnut, and one antler. No flaws, Finally! I'm not completely sure what I changed, but if I were to guess, I would say I used a little bit more BLO, I used a little bit more CA, I used sanding sealer, and I put on 12 coats, which MM'ed to perfection. Maybe 12 liberal  instead of 8 conservative was the key, maybe I was putting on too thin a coat.


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## jttheclockman (May 10, 2010)

Do not use blo with CA on oily woods. You are just reintroducing an oil in the finishing process and asking for trouble. Wipe any oily woods down with acetone before using straight CA. Use at least 2 coats of thin CA to start the finishing process and then your choice afterwards. I like to use straight thin CA and do about 5 or 6 coats and it looks great. Any other woods do as you please. Just remember when using blo on light colored woods you will yellow the wood. Good luck. As always many different results and many ways of doing things.  Another proven ingrediant to halt oily wood problems is to seal with a dewaxed shellac such as Bullseye. Works well.


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## jason_r (May 10, 2010)

Only thing that struck me was that the clouds were usually at the ends of the pen.  Does your finish look great while it's on the mandrel?

If so, you may be separating the finish from the blank when you separate it from the bushings.  Have you waxed your bushings?


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## RussFairfield (May 11, 2010)

Since you are having the problem on the ends, I suspect that the moisture in the Denatured Alcohol (DNA) is the problem. Try either sealing the ends of the blank with thin CA glue after trimming the barrel length, or forgetting the DNA altogether.

There are 2 things to remember about all finishes - 

DULL in a finish is caused by oil.

CLOUDY in a finish is caused by moisture

The oil is usually from the wood, but it can also be finger oil from our skin, and as Don said, even though the oil is removed with a solvent, it will migrate back to the surface from inside the wood, and kill the finish.

Moisture can be because the wood wasn't as dry as we thought it was, or it can be introduced with the denatured alcohol. DNA can absorb up to 15% or more water from the air if it has been open for awhile and you live in a humid climate. The DNA will evaporate quickly, but the water will take at least overnight.


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