# Free Samples-Not What You Think!!



## Randy_ (Feb 23, 2006)

Recently, someone posted a link to a site that was offering free samples of a counter top material....not Corian.  I ordered some and it came today.  Nice stuff; but too small to make pen blanks.  It feels like plastic and has a matte finish; but it might polish up with a little effort.  One piece looks like granite and would make a nice OOPS band or accent ring.  

Hope I am not wasting everyone's time by confusing this post with one on Yahoo.  If anyone remembers the post and could bump it up, I would appreciate it.  They only allow 3 samples per request and I would like to get a few more colors so I want to have my G/F order some too.  Thanks.


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## angboy (Feb 23, 2006)

Randy, I bumped the other one (it was under trades and giveaways), only b/c I'm such a dear and sweet person!!! [][]


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## Randy_ (Feb 23, 2006)

> _Originally posted by angboy_
> <br />Randy, I bumped the other one (it was under trades and giveaways), only b/c I'm such a dear and sweet person!!! [][]



Thanks.....and such a terrific memory, too!![]


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## terrymiller (Feb 23, 2006)

Randy what is the actual size of the samples you said not big enough for a pen, but is it worth the time to order.


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## Johnathan (Feb 23, 2006)

It's always fun to find new things to use in pens.[)]


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## Randy_ (Feb 24, 2006)

Terry: After reading Angela's comment, I realized that I hadn't mentioned a specific size.  I was going to post that information; but the dinner bell and the Olympics side-tracked me temporarily......sorry.

The pieces are up to 1/32" less than 1/2" thick and are 2" square Â± 1/16".  The thickness would be OK for a slimline; but unfortunately, the pieces all have edges that have been rounded over rather than left square.  The roundover would need to be trimmed off to get a good blank and after doing that, the samples  would be about 1-3/4" square and just a hair shy of what one would need for a slimline.  I guess you could add a short contrasting segment to create the necessary length; but it wouldn't be worth the effort for me especially since I'm not a big fan of slimlines anyway.


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## TomServo (Feb 24, 2006)

Randy: you can order up to 9 samples - 3 each of their 3 brands... I posted the link originally...  it might be possible to glue up some pieces to make it enough for a single pen per piece?


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## Randy_ (Feb 24, 2006)

Brian:  That's what I thought, too.  I did order three of each...or at least I thought I did...but they only sent me three samples.


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## jeff (Feb 28, 2006)

I received the email below from this company. 
Please don't order any more samples.
[... Addressed to me]

In a posted link from your site, members have posted a discussion about our free solid surface 2 x 2 samples. We send these to consumers wanting counter tops. It appears some dishonest pen turners may be ordering these samples for personal use. 

I am sure you are unaware of this happening. Could you call me or post a remark "From Admin", about the fact it is dishonest and furthermore illegal requesting samples for personal use. 

http://www.penturners.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12886 

Thanks, 

Dewayne Michaels   866-369-3017


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## gerryr (Feb 28, 2006)

Personal use?  Doesn't someone wanting to look at samples for a countertop constitute personal use?  That's a real stretch to call it illegal.


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## Gary Max (Feb 28, 2006)

gerryr I think they just don't want any of the thousands of IAP's members buying their products. Heck I ain't looking forward to replacing our counter tops----going to cost a ton.


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## Dario (Feb 28, 2006)

What I don't like is that they labelled those who thought of the idea as "dishonest".

They offered the samples for free therefore, people who availed of it should have freedom to use it anyway they wanted.

I also think that the use of the word "illegal" was stretched way too far.

For the record...I never ordered any of this stuff.


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## Randy_ (Feb 28, 2006)

In my less than humble opinion, that is a bunch of s%$#!!  Ordering samples to make a decision about selection of a counter top is clearly "personal use" and is neither dishonest nor illegal as the company is encouraging this "personal use", themselves!!  While they may not like the idea that some folks order the samples for other purposes, I don't remember anything on their site forbidding the practice and I also don't remember a place on the site where we "signed" an agreement promising that we were only interested in the samples for the purpose of making decisions about the purchase of their products.  

If these guys don't want their samples used for making pens, that is their choice and fine with me; but for them to call it dishonest and illegal is strikes me as being a little.....well??.....dishonest..... although not illegal.  I'm planning on making a mental note of this company and their product and will surely "NEVER" buy a counter top from them!!!  I hope the few bucks they save is worth all of the bad feelings they are generating??? 

These folks are clearly &*8^%s and I am fix'in to return my samples and reimburse them for the postage.  Sure would not want them to sue me for acquiring samples under false pretenses.

Hey Dewayne:  Bet you can guess what I think you should do with my returned samples when you get them??  [!][!][!]


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## Skye (Feb 28, 2006)

Illegal? They are aware that people _do_ <b>buy Corian</b> for the express purpose of penturning, arenâ€™t they? If not, getting a chip on their shoulder is a sure way to make sure we keep buying regular Corian and leaving their stuff alone.

Doesnâ€™t matter if the stuff is sold as lawn fertilizer and we turn it. If we like it, we'll buy more. It's not rocket science.


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## jeff (Feb 28, 2006)

I think the real issue is that they simply didn't want to send out samples to bunches of people who were not planning to buy countertops. I don't like his choice of words either, but I understand his position. Regarding his choice of words... I would have explained their position in my own words, but he requested that I post his email.

It would have been better for him to say, "I notice a bunch of you penturners want samples, what's up?" Maybe it could have turned into some sales for them, but we'd be small potatoes compared to countertop sales.

I did in fact ask him how we could obtain factory offcuts, scrap, etc., from either them or their installation contractors, but I don't expect a response. I explained how a bunch of pens out there might lead to some sales. I wonder if they've ever considered giving pens made with their material as gifts, such as I know is done with Corian.


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## Dario (Feb 28, 2006)

Another thing that interests me is...WHO POINTED THIS OUT to Mr. Michaels? 

Is IAP singled out? 

Hmmm [}][}][}]


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## Ron in Drums PA (Feb 28, 2006)

Hey folks

Whoever feels they are not doing anything dishonest by requesting these samples in order to get some freebes, please send me 3 pens from each type of kit that you make. I would like to review them for my personal use.

Thank you for your assistance.


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## Randy_ (Feb 28, 2006)

Gee, Ron.  You want my entire output for the last six months??

Well, OK.....but you will have to cover the postage and insurance.....$687.89.  [][]


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## Dario (Feb 28, 2006)

Ron,

We are not offering them for FREE like they do.  

If that is their intent, atleast say so.  It is not right to call people dishonest and doing something unlawful just because things didn't go the way they wanted or hoped it to.

If I give you something (anything)...it is none of my business what you do with it.


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## Darley (Feb 28, 2006)

They lucky I didn't order they sample pack []


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## Ron in Drums PA (Feb 28, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Dario_
> <br />Another thing that interests me is...WHO POINTED THIS OUT to Mr. Michaels?
> 
> Is IAP singled out?
> ...



Every website logs who visits them by thier IP address. If one site (IAP) has a link to another site that link is logged also. 



Imagine:
20+ requests for free samples in one day. 
"Wow! That's more than we normally get!"
"We must be doing something right"
"Hey Wait a second. Lets check our website logs."
"Holy crap, they all came from the same website, let's see what's going on."

Everything that is done on the internet is logged and retained somewhere. Everthing!


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## Dario (Feb 28, 2006)

Ron,

I work at IT and know that...believe me hardly anybody look at the logs unless something really go wrong. []


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## Ron in Drums PA (Feb 28, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Dario_
> <br />Ron,
> 
> We are not offering them for FREE like they do.
> ...



Geesh! 

Why do you think they are giving samples away! 

They are doing it to increase THIER business. It's EXACTLY THIER BUSINESS what you do with it. If it's not to help THIER BUSINESS why would they want to give it away for free. Do you think they are doing because they think you are cute?

Get Real, Life is not a bowl of freebes.


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## Ron in Drums PA (Feb 28, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Dario_
> <br />Ron,
> 
> I work at IT and know that...believe me hardly anybody look at the logs unless something really go wrong. []



Well something did and they did.


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## jeff (Feb 28, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Dario_
> <br />Ron,
> 
> I work at IT and know that...believe me hardly anybody look at the logs unless something really go wrong. []


True enough, but it's entirely possible that their request form page looks at the HTTP_REFERER server variable. That shows the URL that the visitor came from. If someone clicked that freebie link from inside the topic, and they capture the referrer, they'd have the exact link back to the topic. 

Zillions of sites capture the referrer either directly in scripts, or with a statistics front end. It's an easy way to see where your visitors are coming from, which of course is nice to know so you can decide where to invest in advertising.


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## Dario (Feb 28, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Ron in Drums PA_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...




You sound SO SURE...how did you know? [}]




> _Originally posted by Ron in Drums PA_
> <br />
> 
> 
> ...



Yep and they (and YOU) should get real too and know that not everything will work as they wanted/planned it.

As I said...they could have at least said that in their site.  Not come later on with a blazing gun accusing everyone who availed as "dishonest" and "illegal".

Making pen out of their samples BTW may actually increase their sales.  Things work in mysterious way sometimes []

I know their intent and don't have any qualms about it.  It is the way it is handled that irked me.  To repeat...I am not even one of those who got their sample.

I think I know where you stand and I will respect it.  This is my last post here and I won't comment on this anymore.


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## Ron in Drums PA (Feb 28, 2006)

How do I know? They emailed Jeff

Pen blanks may increase thier sales? How much do you plan on buying?


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## timdaleiden (Feb 28, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Dario_
> <br />I also think that the use of the word "illegal" was stretched way too far.



I think that is a stretch too.  I donâ€™t think I would engage in ordering free samples of something, unless I had a genuine intention of at least â€œconsideringâ€ purchasing their products.  I donâ€™t think there is any law in place to protect them though. They got scared, so they used strong language to try to scare people. 

I have had a personal experience similar to this recently. I was threatened with legal action by someone who frequents this forum. I asked a question via e-mail, they didnâ€™t like it, so they threatened legal action. 

My opinion of this person has been significantly degraded, of course.


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## penhead (Feb 28, 2006)

Um, that's a pretty profound statement and certainly no disrespect meant Dario, but if you work at a company that has a web site and _doesn't_ check their logs on a daily basis, you might wanna suggest it.  Even if they use a free analyzer, I just can't imagine not knowing what's coming at you.
This one works well: http://www.analog.cx/



> _Originally posted by Dario_
> <br />Ron,
> 
> I work at IT and know that...believe me hardly anybody look at the logs unless something really go wrong. []


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## Malkusr (Mar 1, 2006)

I don't see anything wrong with using these samples for penmaking as long as you plan on buying more if you like it. I looked on the site and saw nothing that bars you from using the samples for anything other than your inteded pupose. Heck I didn't even see an intended purpose! I planned on trying the material out and buying some from them to use in my pens.
And I, like Randy, will send the blanks but.....with a little modifcation.....lets say..... drilled, turned, finished, and pen parts attached![]


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## Tea Clipper (Mar 1, 2006)

This is just like the free food samples they hand out at the supermarket.  They hand those samples out to lure you into buying their product.  Is it realistic to expect that every free hand out will translate into a sale?  No.  Would it be dishonest or illegal to accept a free sample knowing full well you don't intend to buy their product?  Of course not.  What makes this situation any different from the supermarket scenario?  Sadly, this guy missed a great marketing opportunity.  Our pens could have been free advertising for their counter tops.  Perhaps, heâ€™ll reconsider.


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## Skye (Mar 1, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Tea Clipper_
> <br />This is just like the free food samples they hand out at the supermarket.  They hand those samples out to lure you into buying their product.



Exactly. If they want to hand 10 chunks of cheese to every customer and I take mine to my dog to eat, that's my buisness.

If it's a matter of how much the penturning scene would buy, that's a matter for the supplier to be concerned with. To say that they wouldent want our buisness it flat out assumption. Personaly, when we had our own buisness, no item sold was too small. Heck, everyone knows you make more markup on smaller sales a lot of the time.


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## Doghouse (Mar 1, 2006)

Could it be that all of a sudden they had a flood of request for "samples" which do cost production money?  
"
Please consider the intent of the business.  To sell counter tops.  I don not know if the "about the fact it is dishonest and furthermore illegal requesting samples for personal use." statement is in fact true, but will check with my lawyer.  I tend to believe they would have to make a statement that the request for these samples are to be used for your decision to purchase our product not to reverse engineer the product or to use the samples for any other purpose.  

That being said, the samples do cost them money, and heck they are just trying to stay in business and be profitable.  What if you offered usage samples of how the ink writes in your pens, and 100's of people ordered them just to get the paper?  Now multiply that times their cost of doing business and I think you can see their side of the coin.  

If you want "samples", find a local counter install shop and ask if you can take some of their scrap.  I have a place locally that was willing to give me all I wanted so they would not have to pay to throw it out.


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## Ron in Drums PA (Mar 1, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Doghouse_
> 
> If you want "samples", find a local counter install shop and ask if you can take some of their scrap.  I have a place locally that was willing to give me all I wanted so they would not have to pay to throw it out.



Here is another idea, Jeff posted Dewayne Michaels phone number (866-369-3017). How about giving him a call and do a bulk buy.


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## airrat (Mar 1, 2006)

I feel he does not want anything to do with the pen turning society.  So lets just let them be.  I dont agree with the attitude of his email and will make sure I dont purchase his products even for counter tops.  I will continue to get corian and such from others.

As to going at each other in this thread, lets not.  Is the product worth angry words?


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## Skye (Mar 1, 2006)

Getting a price per blank would probably be a good idea before you make it sound it sound to the guy like someone wants to start a bulk buy.


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## Randy_ (Mar 1, 2006)

And maybe we should wait until someone actually uses the material to make a pen??  It may turn out to be totally unsatisfactory for making pens??


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## Skye (Mar 1, 2006)

Yes, but I have a feeling most of us didnt get the samples, I know I didnt. I would assume most orders that were redirects from here were canceled. I'm certainly not ordering one to find out.


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## Darley (Mar 1, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Doghouse_
> <br />
> That being said, the samples do cost them money,



That's true all samples cost money but the company right it off of they income, so they loose nothing, is no such giving some thing for free some one as to pay or loose money in this case is TAX MAN, this is part of advertising campaing


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## rtjw (Mar 1, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Dario_
> <br />Another thing that interests me is...WHO POINTED THIS OUT to Mr. Michaels?
> 
> Is IAP singled out?
> ...



Just wanting explanation on this dario. Could you tell me what you meant by this.


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## Gary Max (Mar 1, 2006)

Looks like plain english to me------ 
Nothing to read between the lines---------


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## Dolphinjon (Mar 1, 2006)

Well, I ordered some samples. That was about a week ago and I haven't recieved them, so I guess I won't get them. 
I do want to say that I have used Avonite and Formica. I got a box of 100 blanks off of e-bay and only about half of them or Corian. I've been very happy with all of the solid surface blanks. i just wanted to try out a few colors that I didn't have. All I'm saying is I thought it was pretty good material and I've had a positive experience with it.

Jonathan


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## Skye (Mar 1, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Gary Max_
> <br />Looks like plain english to me------
> Nothing to read between the lines---------



The three devil heads say otherwise.

I got my samples today ironicly enough. I tell ya, I dont know how it would turn, but the 'Treasure Artifacts' and the 'Copper Artifacts' would make some nice looking pens. Almost like a cross between crushed velvet and an extreme burl. Wish the sample was larger...


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## airrat (Mar 1, 2006)

Skye post the pictures of them if you dont mind.  Just curious to see what the acutal samples look like.


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## jeff (Mar 2, 2006)

Just FYI, I've gotten some emails from Mr Dewayne Michaels. He mentioned that his choice of words might have been a little too strong for the situation, but he also pointed out that the cost for sending a sample pack is about $30 (material, time, postage, etc.) That could certainly justify his frustration with the situation initially. 

Now the good news. He's willing to supply material for us if we can get enough orders together to make up the equivalent of a half sheet. That could include a variety of different colors. 

Obviously, the first thing is to see how it turns. Has anyone gotten a turnable sample? I asked if I could get a scrap piece thicker than the samples. If he can provide that, I'll send some to a few of you for an opinion.

If it turns as nice as it looks, then one of you can "volunteer" to coordinate a bulk buy, which would include cutting up slabs into blanks. I'll let you know how this progresses.


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## jeff (Mar 2, 2006)

I have some material on the way to me. Dewayne says some is an exact match for Corian, and the rest is similar in workability. We might have some nice stuff here.

I'll divide up what I get and send out to some of you. How about those interested make a post here. Five people should suffice.


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## angboy (Mar 2, 2006)

I'd love to try- I'm not as experienced as some of the others on here, but I think it'd be fun to try out some new material! (But if you want seasoned turners, then feel free to skip me and go to the next person.)


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## wdcav1952 (Mar 2, 2006)

Jeff,

I'd be glad to try it if you need a volunteer.


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## Ron in Drums PA (Mar 2, 2006)

I'll give a try


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## Gary Max (Mar 2, 2006)

If you get any of the blue I would give it a spin.


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## gerryr (Mar 2, 2006)

If you get some black, I'd be glad to make some shavings out of it.


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## Hastur (Mar 2, 2006)

Airrat and I can give it a spin.  Let us know.


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## micah (Mar 2, 2006)

I'd definantly love to try some! Doesn't really matter what color...I just like to turn![]
Micah


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## jeff (Mar 2, 2006)

Thanks all. That's plenty of volunteers. I'll let you know what I get.


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## TomServo (Mar 16, 2006)

Just to bump an old grind... as it were.. here's my second set of samples: (the first ones were the formica, i think) one avonite and two dovae i believe.. one is 4x4": These shipped from a different address than the first set.


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## jeff (Mar 16, 2006)

Just FYI, I never received anything from them.


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## gerryr (Mar 16, 2006)

I received one little 2x2 piece and I don't think it was one I even requested.


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