# Is Pen Turning an Expensive Hobby???



## Smitty37 (Jun 2, 2015)

This has been discussed before but we have a lot of new members now and maybe it's time to do it again.  I will begin with my opinion about this and then anyone can add theirs.  There is really no wrong answer.

My opinion is NO --- why do I say that.  Because I have personally had three other hobbies that were more expensive and can think of many others.

1 - owning, breeding, raising and racing or showing horses make pen turning look like penny ante stuff.  It can cost in a year what most penturners won't spend in a lifetime. I did this one myself - except for the racing.  Racing horses is not named the sport of kings for nothing...when it was given that name only kings could afford it.

2 - playing golf - a friend of mine just went on a $20000 trip to play golf at a few well known courses - You can turn pens for a month on what he spends for a weekend.

3. - Owning and operating an ocean going boat (pleasure or fishing)...$50,000 for the boat is just the down payment. I had a relatively small boat for this purpose...still it cost about $100 everytime I took it away from the dock.  The price of a good lathe that will last you a life time won't buy slip space to tie it up for a season.  Race boats and you start getting into real money.

4. Owning and Racing Cars...$100,000 hardly buys a seasons worth of tires.

5. Hobby Farming...I had just a small hobby farm, and I had a Tractor, Haybine, tedder, baler, manure spreader, wagon and pickup truck rack.  I paid to get plowing and planting done...These items were all used but cost well over $10,000 35 years ago.  Repairs and maintenance, even doing much of the work myself was staggering.  This is to say nothing of the investment in barns, fences, outbuildings, machine sheds, etc.

6. Non-Pen making woodworking. Especially if you get into making really nice items....the tools alone run in the multi-thousands.

That is just my top half dozen and I didn't include and of the collecting hobbies - I did at one time collect coins and while I had money tied up in it...it actually didn't cost me anything because when I sold the collection it brought more than it cost to put it together.


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## Cwalker935 (Jun 2, 2015)

When you put it into perspective, penmaking is not an expensive hobby.  It is however sneaky, I find myself wanting to try every new kit, new blank, or new type of blank making.  I buy new stuff when I already have a backlog of new stuff to try.


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## asyler (Jun 2, 2015)

not really, i guess, but i have to control the 'wood o holic' in me....


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## Edgar (Jun 2, 2015)

I fully agree, Leroy.

I sometimes wince when I think about what this hobby costs, but when I put it into perspective - it really isn't bad at all. 

I have first hand experience with farming. My woodturning costs pale in comparison to the cost & upkeep on 3 tractors, various trailers, implements, tools, buildings, etc etc

My brother is an avid hunter (and also a farmer/rancher). He spends far more on his hunting habit than I do on woodturning.


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## Smitty37 (Jun 2, 2015)

edohmann said:


> I fully agree, Leroy.
> 
> I sometimes wince when I think about what this hobby costs, but when I put it into perspective - it really isn't bad at all.
> 
> ...


 I didn't include hunting, because I only ever made two hunting trips where I paid for lodging, license, guide etc. Also. shooting targets can also cost a bundle.  I did that for awhile and even reloading ammunition can eat up a lot of change.


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## raar25 (Jun 2, 2015)

Yes but more expensive than hiking, chess and painting.  Whatever it costs if it saves your sanity it is a small price to pay!


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## maxwell_smart007 (Jun 2, 2015)

As with any hobby, you can do it cheaply, or the sky's the limit...

It all comes down to what you're willing to spend.


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## jttheclockman (Jun 2, 2015)

It is an expensive hobby but that is all relative to what you are comparing it to. If you collect cars or are a race car enthusiast than no and there are many more examples. But when you take something that is not needed to sustain life in your world than it is an expensive hobby, with HOBBY  as the key word.  Now if you are wealthy than again the perspective is different. Personal income as well as family have to be included in the equation. So yes to some it is and to some it may not be. One other thing to mention for the equation is how far are you taking penturning as a hobby??? Are you casting, are you segmenting, are you buying blanks or making them, are you making kitless pens and the list goes on and on. Are you supplementing your hobby with selling your work or are one of those that give away all your pens.  Like you said no right answer.


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## monophoto (Jun 2, 2015)

The difference between children's toys and adult toys is that adult toys are always more expensive.  Take boats for example.

Yes, there is a cost associated with wood turning.  And it can be significant.  But it it isn't absolutely necessary to own every tool in the catalog.  After all, the main reason manufacturers come up with new and improved tools is that there are people who will buy them because they are new and improved - even though they don't really work any better than the old stuff they already own.  

In fact, for some of us, part of the fun is making tools or fixtures that perform the function of the shiny new things at the toy store (aka Woodcraft).  Its nice to have pretty things we can show as the result of our work, but it's also satisfying to know that those things were made using tools that you created yourself from junk that would otherwise be thrown out.

I had an uncle who, when he retired, went out and bought a shop full of new woodworking machinery.  And every day he would go into his garage shop and fondle those machines.  He never used them because he was afraid that he might get hurt; he always said that in the interest of safety he wanted to take some adult education classes first, but the classes he wanted were only offered on nights when he had another activity that he wanted to instead.  I'm sure that he got a great deal of pleasure from looking at his new woodworking machines.  But for me, I would rather have old machines (my table saw is at least 60 years old) and make a lot of sawdust.


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## ELA (Jun 2, 2015)

The last time I went deep sea fishing we figured the total cost of the fish caught was $65 per pound.
My woodturning HOBBY is still cheap by comparison.


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## vakmere (Jun 2, 2015)

I was a bassist. I purchased Ken Smiths, Fodera, MTD-USA, Alembic, top of the line models with wood finishes that were museum grade. Yea, pen making is less expensive but the thrill of making a nice pen rivaled that of making nice music with nice instruments. I guess it's all relative.


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## csr67 (Jun 2, 2015)

This is not an expensive hobby to me.  Sure I put down about $1k getting all set up, but in return I turn out nice pens.  Now my other hobby, restoring vintage Honda Trail Motorcycles is 10X more pricey.  Just price out what the carb boot for a 1965 Honda CT200 will cost you.... There's a place in the Netherlands that stocks tons of vintage Honda New-Old-Stock parts, but you pay dearly for them!  I can easily dump 1k into a simple restoration, and that's money you won't see on the backend if you sell the bike.

Luckily for me, my motorcycle restoration bug has been squashed by this new pen hobby!


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## walshjp17 (Jun 2, 2015)

On FB, I saw a posting that sort of went:  "Why buy a (insert inexpensive mass made item) for $7.00 when you can build it for $92.00"  Sort of explains my 'inexpensive' hobby to a tee.


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## mark james (Jun 2, 2015)

My wife and I have few costly hobbies ( we're boring..., actually, we're very boring...).  A brother-in-law is an avid golfer, and has worked hard all his life to be able to "play" and pay his bills...  He is a retired auto parts company executive and plant manager; But, HE (not me), estimates...  $8,000/year x 35 years = $280,000 .

I started woodturning/penturning _4 years ago_...  I love making crappy pens and having fun in my shop!  AND, supporting IAP and others! 

I vote No - it's not an expensive hobby - especially, as you REALLY need just a few items.  Realistically, most of us enjoy what we have, but could do with less and still be happy.


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## Cmiles1985 (Jun 2, 2015)

Seeing as how our hobby ends up with a tangible object that is generally worth at least the price of purchased materials, no, this isn't an expensive hobby. After all, I don't see anyone selling boat exhaust or horse turds. I used to race my daily driver. A track weekend gets expensive FAST. The occasional unintended speeding violations got expensive quickly as well.


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## oneleggimp (Jun 2, 2015)

Gotta agree with JohnT.  Since I'm on a fixed and limited income, being medically retired on a disability, I have been frugral in setting up shop.  I started with just a HF Mini-Lathe, and then added a Rikon Low Speed Grinder and Wolverine Jig and I was just given a Ryobi Scroll Saw which will finish up my shop.  I can cut blanks just fine with the scrolll saw. The problem is the cost of kits and the necessary bushings to go with them and, of  course, pen  blanks.  It's expensive to me but it's my only hobby so it is what it is.


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## Smitty37 (Jun 2, 2015)

jttheclockman said:


> It is an expensive hobby but that is all relative to what you are comparing it to. If you collect cars or are a race car enthusiast than no and there are many more examples. But when you take something that is not needed to sustain life in your world than it is an expensive hobby, with HOBBY  as the key word.  Now if you are wealthy than again the perspective is different. Personal income as well as family have to be included in the equation. So yes to some it is and to some it may not be. One other thing to mention for the equation is how far are you taking penturning as a hobby??? Are you casting, are you segmenting, are you buying blanks or making them, are you making kitless pens and the list goes on and on. Are you supplementing your hobby with selling your work or are one of those that give away all your pens.  Like you said no right answer.


That is all true John, but I was thinking in relative terms of hobbies.  

I don't talk of a hobby in the breath as life needs like food, shelter etc. To me hobby says discretionary spending after ALL necessities are taken care of.  I also thought the term hobby means it is not undertaken to make money but for pleasure or relaxation.


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## avbill (Jun 2, 2015)

The last time I went deep sea fishing we figured the total cost of the fish caught was $65 per pound.

BUT that story you could tell from them....


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## jttheclockman (Jun 2, 2015)

Smitty37 said:


> jttheclockman said:
> 
> 
> > It is an expensive hobby but that is all relative to what you are comparing it to. If you collect cars or are a race car enthusiast than no and there are many more examples. But when you take something that is not needed to sustain life in your world than it is an expensive hobby, with HOBBY  as the key word.  Now if you are wealthy than again the perspective is different. Personal income as well as family have to be included in the equation. So yes to some it is and to some it may not be. One other thing to mention for the equation is how far are you taking penturning as a hobby??? Are you casting, are you segmenting, are you buying blanks or making them, are you making kitless pens and the list goes on and on. Are you supplementing your hobby with selling your work or are one of those that give away all your pens.  Like you said no right answer.
> ...




I will stand by my answer because it is all true. Pen making is an  expensive hobby if your income is minimal and you chose it as a hobby.  To others that have more income it could be less expensive. That is why  it is all relative. No ifs and or buts.


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## robutacion (Jun 3, 2015)

I don't really think that, pen turning is an expensive hobby.

I could compare it with hunting and fishing and, it doesn't get eve close...!

Particularly fishing, I spend 6 years in the paradise world of the Australian Barramundi fish habitat, the great Northern Territory, the gear I purchased specially for it, the boat rentals, the fuel used, and all the routine stuff needed because, I wanted to experience the true Barramundi fishing and have my freezer full of such tasty fish, right...????

Wrong, 6 years of trying, to the exact same spots where where some of the best Barramundi are caught and you know what, I had lots of cat fish and small sharks but barramundi...??? I caught 1 (one) fish that was 1 cm under the legal limit of 50cm and you don't want to get caught with an undersized Barramundi, those waters are run by the Fish Authorities everyday night and day because they know, is always someone trying or use nets...!

Throwing that fish back in the water, was not easy, I was as mad as hell and since, all my fishing madness disappear for good...!

Hunting, yes it can be very expensive also however, I didn't realised then that, the exercise and the excitement during the hunt, was more that money can pay.  Walking 10 miles in a day, up and down hills, kept me very fit, I subsidized most of my hunting expenses by selling the "animals" to restaurants that specialised in that sort of game meat, was never a commercial operation or a business, was a hobby that I miss that I found the way to pay for itself otherwise, I couldn't afford to do it.

Not much different than what I do now with my salvaged woods, I couldn't have afforded to do what I did, if I didn't tried to sell some of my work or some of the wood, as it endup until today, that's my hobby, that's what I like to do and spend my time doing, is not a business, never was and never will...!

So, the definition of a "hobby" can vary considerably depend of each person's, situation and or needs/goals...!

The wife and I, we also seemed to have another "hobby", which involves, seeing which one of us sees the most doctors/visits, tests and medications numbers taken daily, it wasn't intended like that but, that turn out to be our most expensive "hobby"...!

Seriously, everyone needs to have something that they enjoy doing, even if only once a while and I don'y think that is such a thing as the right or wrong hobby, anything that gives you enjoyment and self worth, that doesn't relate to doctors, hospitals and medications, are all OK, in my book...!:wink::biggrin:

Cheers
George


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## PenPal (Jun 3, 2015)

It goes something like this I am a penturner not to beat myself about it it I enjoy the privilige this I do within my means it is my hobby .Is it personal you betcha do I agree with this forum yes otherwiswe I would never look at another contribution in fact sometimes I choose not to. This is what membership implies joining for ones own reasons, participation is optional.
Analysis fails when the parameters are unknown Ed just demonstrated that, what does this mean to me very little I try to enjoy and uplift the contributers.

Peter.


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## OKLAHOMAN (Jun 3, 2015)

Compared to my hobby it's dirt cheap:biggrin:
Only have $23,000.oo in this 1965 Chevelle


Have close to $30,000 in this 1936 and it's a good $8-10 thousand away from finishing​​


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## Smitty37 (Jun 3, 2015)

jttheclockman said:


> Smitty37 said:
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John, I think that yes and no don't exist in your vocabulary...everything is "maybe".  

If you don't have much income eating Angus beef steak is expensive.  To others that have more income it could be less expensive.  

But, compared to eating chicken or pork, Angus beef steak is still expensive regardless of income.  Regardless of income penturning falls into the "chicken or pork" arena as far as hobbies run....so I also stand by my statement because it is all true.:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:


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## knowltoh (Jun 3, 2015)

Comparing cost to reward, it is one of the least expensive things I
 do.


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## KBs Pensnmore (Jun 3, 2015)

When I started my wood turning hobby, total out lay to get set up was $137.00 $102 for the lathe and $35 for a set of chisels, low carbon at that. After a couple of months,the bug really bit, $1500 for the lathe, it came with a copy attachment, router trimmer and the stand to work it. My next chisels were about $100 each average, I have about 15 different ones, Bandsaw, kept upgrading as they were to small, last one $800. ++++++++My other hobby is metalwork, lathe, milling, welding etc., all up close to $40,000 to replace it all.
I now have more tied up in hobby gear than I own in furniture. I wouldn't change it for anything.
It's still a cheaper hobby, than my previous one, of collecting rifles, handguns reloading equipment etc, range fees etc. I had 15 rifles and 6 handguns.
That was until the Govt. decided that honest people shouldn't have firearms, only criminals would be allowed them.
Kryn


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## BSea (Jun 3, 2015)

*Hobby:*  The hopeless attempt to recapture the initial euphoria of an activity that reduces stress, and occupies the mind.  

*Cost:* Priceless . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . apparently.


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## smik (Jun 3, 2015)

Being an ex smoker I compare costs to what it would cost me if I still smoked.  Having been a 2 pack a day smoker todays cost would be around 12.00/day or about 4400 a year. I figure the first 4400 spent on the hobby is free money.


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## Ted iin Michigan (Jun 3, 2015)

I wasn't going to chime in here because the thread is quite long (who's gonna read this response) but I have something to add and........

My offering is that I try my darnedest to make the pen side of me, at the worst, "cost neutral". So I sell pens and other turned stuff at several shows a year, some wholesale sales to stores and (UGH!) there's one consignment thing I have trouble getting away from. I'm sure that if I created a DBA or an LLC, I would "lose" money. And I may do that in the future sometime. But my truth is that I can pretty much stay afloat by staying active and pushing pens - just a little. 

And the other part of it is that I really enjoy meeting the folk who buy and appreciate the pens and stuff I make. Almost worth the price of admission right there.


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## mike4066 (Jun 3, 2015)

Compared to other hobbies I've had pen turning isn't that expensive, but you can let it nickle/dime you if you horde stuff or can't pass up one of Smitty's pre-prod sales . But you have a tangible item when its done that can be given away for sold to help pay for itself.

The other intangible benefit is that I'm at home now. I'm in the garage instead of on the golf course, or on the water fishing. It's easy enough to stop the lathe and go do other things, better yet its not that expensive to get the rest of the family involved.


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## Fay Prozora (Jun 3, 2015)

I don't think it is any different than my fly  tying stuff or the sewing and embroidery machines I have and all that fabric too. And how about all those knitting needles and crochet hooks? I have a ton of tea pots that I collected over the years and I have 3 china cabinets with a lot of crystals in them. Now I own a lathe and a few other good power tools and a lot of smaller tools and such. Now I'm getting into blank casting and that will cost some money too. Maybe 99 dollars or so on the pressure pot and I have already spent the money on an air compressor and hose and fittings but will get the pot after awhile when the store opens. So I could say yep,, I spent a lot of money on my various hobbies and such so I can pretty much say I breaking even with the cost of all the hobbies I have. I haven't used any one of my embroidery machines in over 3 years but the fabric is still on the sewing table and I have a beautiful quilt I need to finish one of these days. I started out with the scroll saw and then got interested in wood turning and then made a few pens and have been at it for over a year now. Casting will be a whole new thing for me. There's  the pressure pot and air compressor and the hose and fittings and not to mention the alumilite or what ever type of resins to use and the color dyes and every thing else that goes with it.  Sheesh! Enjoy your hobbies... Fay


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## JimB (Jun 3, 2015)

It's the most expensive hobby I have but I don't consider it an expensive hobby. There are many, many other hobbies that are much more expensive.


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## jttheclockman (Jun 3, 2015)

Smitty37 said:


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Well Smitty sometimes I just do not get your intent on some of the questions you ask. There is no right and wrong answer and the answers are so obvious. It depends on what hobby you are comparing to and it also depends on your income. If you can not afford the expensive hobbies then pen turning can be an expensive hobby. Why can't you see that. It can fall into the steak arena for some. There is no sense to this question. But as you see others will compare to the hobbies they partake in. I am a scroller also and have been doing that way longer than pen turning so that too is an expensive hobby. Both my hobbies are offset with the fact that I sell items. Many people do not so again that is another factor. That too is all true. 

To some collecting butterflys or birdwatching can be an expensive hobby. It is all relative. Lots of factors go into a question like this. Plain and simple. This is how I am looking at this question. Yes and no are in my vocabulary but can never be used in this topic. It is not black and white as you want it to be. If you want to start breaking every hobby on the planet into dollars and sense then good luck. Yes then this will fall somewhere probably in the lower tier.


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## Smitty37 (Jun 3, 2015)

jttheclockman said:


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John you need to look into the principle Occam's Razor --- paraphrased  it says don't add complexity to the question if it is not needed.  In short, if looking at the cost of something --- don't add the income of potential users they are not necessary.:redface::biggrin:


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## jttheclockman (Jun 3, 2015)

I give up Smitty. You win again. :beat-up::doctor::worship:


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