# Calling all cars... I need some help!



## Texatdurango (Oct 17, 2009)

I'm working on a "button filler" pen and need some assistance from you "metal smart people" out there!

To be clear as to what I am up against and need, here is a little background.

A "button filler" uses a sac to store the ink and there is a pressure bar which when depressed and released, sucks ink into the sac.

The button fits into a hole at the base of the pen and is pushed in to bend the pressure bar which in turn collapses the sac.

The button needs to "snap" into the hole but has to stay in, once in and that is where I am having trouble.

The button is designed to where the ridge at the end is larger than the diameter of the hole it goes into but due to some saw kerfs, it collapses when pushed in and collapses when pulled out.

So far I made one from delrin and it works fine but I don't think will stand the test of time. I also made one from brass and it works perfectly _BUT_ the brass really doesn't want to return to it's original shape once compressed and I think it's just a matter of time that one or more of the "legs" will just snap off.

*My question....*

What type of metal would be best suited for making the button? It needs to be "springy enough to withstand numerous compressions over the years. I think copper would be softer than the brass so I haven't considered it yet. This must be a metal that I can work on my small metal lathe.

I made a prototype from clear acrylic so I could see what's going on inside as I make the components. Below are some shots of the prototype pen showing the button, the button next to an original, and how the button fill actually works.


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## penmaker56 (Oct 17, 2009)

George,
This is what the Parker Jack Knife Safety and original Duofolds of the 1910's & 1920's had. They used a brass button, which was more like a rivet, which snapped on the back of the pressure bar, you might want to try heavy up your brass. If you don't want to make it, I have seen replacement Duofold buttons ready made somewhere, but unfortunately, I can't remember where.
Richard


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## Texatdurango (Oct 17, 2009)

penmaker56 said:


> George,
> This is what the Parker Jack Knife Safety and original Duofolds of the 1910's & 1920's had. They used a brass button, which was more like a rivet, which snapped on the back of the pressure bar, you might want to try heavy up your brass. If you don't want to make it, I have seen replacement Duofold buttons ready made somewhere, but unfortunately, I can't remember where.
> Richard


Richard, 
In one of the photos above is an original button on loan to me by a pen collector. It is made of some sort of metal but not brass.

Looking around my shop for anything round and metal, I realized that I overlooked a good candidate... titanium! It's "springiness" makes dandy pen clips so I mounted a rod and turned a button from it and it turned out just fine and works well. I have no doubt this will retain it's springiness for years to come.

Thank you for taking the time to reply, here's what I came up with....


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## Texatdurango (Oct 17, 2009)

Wow, 109 people read my post but only 1 replied, sure is a helpful bunch today, I guess that's just the way the wind blows around here these days!


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## kirkfranks (Oct 17, 2009)

I was going to suggest beryllium copper.
I believe there is different amounts of springniess depending on heat treatment.
It is used in electronics for the female socket for connectors and needs just this type of springness to do that.


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## dogcatcher (Oct 17, 2009)

For metal reeds in some game calls we use phosphor bronze for it's capability of  the retention of it's shape.  The reed is vibrating up and down at a tremendous rate and when the air supply is stopped it goes back to it's original position.  

I never tried making any tooling out of it.  The only exposure I have ever had is making some reelfoot style duck call reeds.  It looked like sheet copper, found it at McMaster Carr several years ago.


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## Rollerbob (Oct 17, 2009)

Geroge, if it will make you feel better, some of us just wanted to see what the heck all the commotion was about. For one, I've never seen this before!!:redface: Looks like you did a nice job, tho.


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## Dan_F (Oct 17, 2009)

George--- I imagine quite a few folks were just curious as to what sort of problem you would actually need help with.   I would further guess that most of them didn't have an answer to your question. 

I have a couple of vintage Wearever Pacemakers which are button fillers. The buttons are plastic, and are slotted to receive the pressure bar. They rely on the length of the pressure bar to keep the button sticking out of the pen body. Keep in mind that Wearever was not a first tier outfit, though the Pacemaker of the early '40's was the top of their line, and a great bargain now on eBay.

I like your solution better.   

Dan


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## Texatdurango (Oct 17, 2009)

Dan_F said:


> George--- I imagine quite a few folks were just curious as to what sort of problem you would actually need help with.  I would further guess that most of them didn't have an answer to your question.
> 
> I have a couple of vintage Wearever Pacemakers which are button fillers. The buttons are plastic, and are slotted to receive the pressure bar. They rely on the length of the pressure bar to keep the button sticking out of the pen body. Keep in mind that Wearever was not a first tier outfit, though the Pacemaker of the early '40's was the top of their line, and a great bargain now on eBay.
> 
> ...


I guess I'm just pissy because I can't go any further with this pen until my new taps and dies arrive and I've got parts coming in from all over and nothing is arriving as soon as I would like!  I hate getting a full head of steam then having to wait and wait... and nothings coming today or tomorrow!  I hate the weekends, they're worthless,  give me seven thursdays in a row and I'm a happy guy!


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## skiprat (Oct 17, 2009)

Aaaargh!!!! 7 Thursdays in a row!!!!  That would kill me!!:frown:
I have a hard enough time waiting for the weekend:biggrin:

BTW, I'm very impressed with how clear the inside of that acrylic tube is, please tell how you did it


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## MarkHix (Oct 17, 2009)

OK George, I will give you my Thursdays.  I will take your weekends.  Be sure and show up at work on time.  

As for the lack of responses.....I would bet most of us (me included) had no idea what to answer or in some cases, what the subject really was.


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## Texatdurango (Oct 17, 2009)

skiprat said:


> Aaaargh!!!! 7 Thursdays in a row!!!! That would kill me!!:frown:
> I have a hard enough time waiting for the weekend:biggrin:
> 
> BTW, I'm very impressed with how clear the inside of that acrylic tube is, please tell how you did it


 
_*Sharp tools and light touches*_......  Isn't that the typical answer to everything here? :biggrin::biggrin:

Actually, I used a lubricant when drilling then sanded the inside with 600 then 800 paper then polished with Novus plastic polish


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## Texatdurango (Oct 17, 2009)

MarkHix said:


> OK George, I will give you my Thursdays. I will take your weekends. Be sure and show up at work on time.
> 
> As for the lack of responses.....I would bet most of us (me included) had no idea what to answer or in some cases, what the subject really was.


 
You mean the part that said.... _*My question....

*What type of metal would be best suited for making the button?_

didn't give it away?

Work! ........ I don't need anymore, I have my hands full making it out to my shop everyday as it is!


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## watchman7 (Oct 17, 2009)

George, I think quite a few folks follow your posts since you have shown some really excellent pens with the kind of work in them a lot of us would like to be capable of doing. I for one compliment you on the work you do and look at your posts just to see what you are going to come up with next. I have not made any kitless pens yet but after seeing some of your work I have been inspired to go that direction.


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## Texatdurango (Oct 17, 2009)

watchman7 said:


> George, I think quite a few folks follow your posts since you have shown some really excellent pens with the kind of work in them a lot of us would like to be capable of doing. I for one compliment you on the work you do and look at your posts just to see what you are going to come up with next. I have not made any kitless pens yet but after seeing some of your work I have been inspired to go that direction.


 
I appreciate the kind words.  When the postman decides to get off his duff and deliver the taps I ordered last week, I'll thread the end cap and post some photos showing what I'm up to this time.  I am having more fun with this pen than any other I have ever done.  What makes it fun is that it is clear and I can see everything I am doing.


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## Dan_F (Oct 18, 2009)

George---Just curious, what sort of tap set are you needing that you can't find locally?

I've been thinking about doing a button filler too, using a section from an old Moore pen with a nice gold nib. 

Dan


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## Texatdurango (Oct 18, 2009)

Dan_F said:


> George---Just curious, what sort of tap set are you needing that you can't find locally?
> 
> I've been thinking about doing a button filler too, using a section from an old Moore pen with a nice gold nib.
> 
> Dan


I'm getting a few .5mm and .75mm pitches in various diameters for some fine threading.  Around here the only places that might carry finer than 1.omm pitch taps and dies are some specialty tool houses but they usually have to order them in themselves then want an arm and leg.  It's so much easier to just visit www.victornet.com and order them except for the part about waiting on the mailman!


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## glycerine (Oct 18, 2009)

Texatdurango said:


> You mean the part that said.... _*My question....*_
> 
> _What type of metal would be best suited for making the button?_
> 
> ...


 
I think he meant from the subject line.  It only stated that you needed help.  No one knew exactly what you needed help on until they read the post.


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## workinforwood (Oct 19, 2009)

Having a metal lathe...can't  you just cut those thread pitch's yourself, or is that too much work and risk?

The button looks good.  I was going to say titanium would be good, but didn't want to hear any grief about that metal, which technically should cut real easy with the proper cutter tip and some lube...as you obviously already know.


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