# USPS have you ever?



## ed4copies (Aug 19, 2009)

Had them charge you more when they deliver??

I took a flat rate box to the PO this aft.  It was full, the two flaps did not meet in the center.  The lady informed me it was "distorted" and that was not allowed on flat rate boxes.  

Although she did NOT make a federal case out of it, and accepted the box at flat rate postage, she DID inform me that the person receiving it MIGHT get charged the postage by weight since I did not follow the rules.

HAS ANYONE EVER
gotten charged
when RECEIVING
a package???​
Or is this just a lame threat??


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## Robert Taylor (Aug 19, 2009)

*flat rate boxes*

on a similar note i had a guy in florida send some turning blanks "parcel post" but he used a "flat rate" box. it came postage due $40.75. i refused to pay so they sent it back. i felt i should have been asked to pay the difference from $8.65 that he paid and the flat rate of $13.95. but they would not accept that. it took nine days to get from florida to ohio so it did not come "priority" in my opinion. i paid $13.95 postage in the ebay auction. i eventually got the box back with no charges. their rule says if you use their box you pay their rate. seems fair to me.


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## Rmartin (Aug 19, 2009)

Um, you could stuff one full of stuff, and send it off to me, and I'll let you know, K?


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## johnnycnc (Aug 19, 2009)

I got a package of blanks first class, that had inadvertently been "under-stamped".
They left the package and a little dun notice of postage due with it.
I paid with pennies, loose in an envelope, back in the mailbox.:highfive:


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## ed4copies (Aug 19, 2009)

Rmartin said:


> Um, you could stuff one full of stuff, and send it off to me, and I'll let you know, K?



No problem, I will look for your order on "exotics"!!


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## jleiwig (Aug 19, 2009)

ed4copies said:


> Had them charge you more when they deliver??
> 
> I took a flat rate box to the PO this aft. It was full, the two flaps did not meet in the center. The lady informed me it was "distorted" and that was not allowed on flat rate boxes.
> 
> ...


 
Ask her to show you this regulation in writing.  I bet she shuts up.  Every post office is different, and every worker in there is different depending on the day.  Of all government agencies I work with, the post office is the worst of the bunch.


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## ed4copies (Aug 19, 2009)

Justin,

I argued with them a year or so ago, had all the written proof that I was right, didn't matter - we did it THEIR way.

All I want to do is make certain that no customers of Exotics are going to get charged actual postage by weight because the flaps are not closed tight.
(There was plenty of tape holding it together, so there was NO issue of it dropping products).


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## mrcook4570 (Aug 19, 2009)

Ed, I think your local post master was trained in Berlin roughly 70 years ago.


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## ed4copies (Aug 19, 2009)

mrcook4570 said:


> Ed, I think your local post master was trained in Berlin roughly 70 years ago.



None of them are TRAINED, we keep hoping they will pee on the paper!!


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## bitshird (Aug 19, 2009)

ed4copies said:


> None of them are TRAINED, we keep hoping they will pee on the paper!!



Ed around here they pee on the mail :biggrin: or do all Post Offices smell that way 
Remember the Poll I did awhile back. They know where you live and they have sharp teeth.


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## Monty (Aug 19, 2009)

I had a customer inform me that he had to pay $3.15 postage due on a Flat Rate Envelope. I reimbursed him the money and file a complaint with the PO. After a week and they had not called me back, I called again and was informed that the person receiving the package should take it to their PO for an explication.  Didn't even inform the customer of this as I figured after a week he didn't have the envelope any more.
So far, this has been the only one out of over a thousands of packages I have mailed over the years (at least to my knowledge).


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## wolftat (Aug 19, 2009)

Ed, About a year ago I had the local psot office girl refuse to take a flatrate envelope from me because it was taped up. She said that it was against the rules to use tape on them. I went and looked it up and you are allowed to reinforce the seal and the package as long as they close with their own seal. I brought the package back in and she gave me the same line of crap so I left. I spoke with a Postal Inspector friend and he said that it was okay as long as it can be closed without any reinforcements, but the reinforcements were okay to use. He spoke with her and straightened it all out.
Your postal employee is basically giving you a hard time and you have to understand her view on this "A little bit of power is a dangerous thing". If we were going to get charged for every box I ever got that was deformed, the post office would have to start being careful with packages. It sounds like she was having a bad day and you walked in. Try it again and see what happens.


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## CSue (Aug 19, 2009)

I have not been charged extra for anything I've received in Priority.

But I was informed my a Postal Clerk that "if it needs tape to keep it shut, it doesn't 'fit' the package."

I haven't had any customers complain about this either.


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## Wheaties (Aug 19, 2009)

...And we wonder why they are losing money FAST. Well, I guess I don't wonder, I KNOW! And private delivery services are not allowed by law to carry first class postage (like envelopes, etc.). SO.... the USPS is basically a government run monopoly that can't survive. 

P.S.  I too have had some bad experiences with them and try my best to avoid them.


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## TellicoTurning (Aug 19, 2009)

ed4copies said:


> None of them are TRAINED, we keep hoping they will pee on the paper!!



I keep telling you... their motto is:    LAST WEEK I CUDN'T EVEN SPELL POSMAN..... NOW I ARE ONE!

:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:


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## NewLondon88 (Aug 19, 2009)

CSue said:


> I have not been charged extra for anything I've received in Priority.
> 
> But I was informed my a Postal Clerk that "if it needs tape to keep it shut, it doesn't 'fit' the package."



That's funny, as I was told just the opposite.. "if you can get it closed,
it is fine."

But I DID get a notice in my mailbox that a priority package was waiting
for me. The postman would NOT deliver it, because there was postage due.
I went to pick it up at the window (had to take time off from work) and the
guy at the window was scratching his head.. said "I have no idea what he
was smoking, but he should knock it off till he's off duty". The package
wasn't overweight, oversized or anything unusual. No idea why he didn't
deliver it. There was no reason for any postage due that we could find.


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## Greg O'Sherwood (Aug 19, 2009)

I have been charged more upon receipt of a flat rate envelope. It had a box inside it that tore out the corner of the envelope and stuck out a little bit. I got a notice on my door that an additional 2 bucks (about) was due on it.
I had to go to the PO to bond it out of USPS jail. 

Pain in the rear end, but nothing to stress over.

It was for a purchase I made here, but don't remember who from.

Greg


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## bitshird (Aug 19, 2009)

MAn they must hate me, I tape the bejesus out of their flimsy flat raTE ENVELOPES WHEN i Mil a tool, I'm always expecting to hear that one came out of the envelope or the envelope tore, and I do tape the top over also, just not the bar code, don't ever put tape over the bar code, they get very indignant in fact down right nasty.


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## Russianwolf (Aug 19, 2009)

bitshird said:


> don't ever put tape over the bar code, they get very indignant in fact down right nasty.



Our mail people tell us that tape over the bar code is fine as long as the tape is flat, not crinkled or folded.:biggrin:


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## Randy_ (Aug 19, 2009)

There is a lot of misunderstanding about the regulations concerning flat rate envelopes, both by the public and by postal employees.  And there is that "rare" individual who tries to push the limits sometimes.

I have never had a problem, personally, with this situation; but recall seeing several posts over the years by folks who have.  Best advice I can give is to carefully read and understand the regs and don't push them to the limits...... expect some fool at the PO to screw up on rare occasion anyway.:wink:


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## avbill (Aug 19, 2009)

Gentlemen and /ladies;

You are going about the wrong way!  First get the regulation in writing.  Then send a letter to the General Postmaster in Washington DC.  explain you have talked to the local PO master and you have gotten the run around. 

Then cc the letter to your Congress representative. Your local Congress representatives  can make the postmaster general's day a very bad,headache  especial then he comes around for their annual price hike. 

The more letters to your congressperson receives   then the more aware they will be to correct the many small problems that never get reported. 

Believe me it works!


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## jfoh (Aug 19, 2009)

Key numbers to keep oin mind with the post office. 
91, 1-1.5, 1%,  50%, 30, AK47

Average IQ of the Postal worker you get to deal with. 91
Number of people who work at the Post Office who know what a they are doing. 1-1.5 out of 100.
Percentage of normal packages which are lost or slowly delivered. 1%
Percentage of your packages which are lost or slowly delivered. Half. 50%
Amount of time spent trying to educated a postal worker what the rules are before the average person understand that 91 may be a generous score. 30 seconds. 
Weapon of choice when a postal employee goes postal. Nice to have a bullet pen in the right caliber to break the ice when they start shooting. AK47

I have printed out regulations and taken them into the Post Office and still had postal employees refuse to follow regulations. Had one counter person and her supervisor both refuse to follow regulations. When the real boss, the post master,  came out and read the regulations it put an end to the problem. Pissed the two lesser peons off and had one of them ask when they changed the regulations. Told her 1968, which had to be 20 years before she was born. Point is that many just assume that they know what the real regulations are and most of us accept that they should know hat they are doing. Not an unreasonable thing to think. But when in doubt get the real regulations and read them. If it is in black and white then they will follow the rules once you point them out. If not ship FedX. They are cheap and  deliver to my house with much less hassle.


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## Rick_G (Aug 19, 2009)

jfoh said:


> If not ship FedX. They are cheap and  deliver to my house with much less hassle.




Unless you are shipping across the border to Canada in which case Fedx, UPS etc hit the person receiving the package with exorbitant charges for clearing customs.  ie. in one case I know of $40 for an item worth $10.


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## mbroberg (Aug 19, 2009)

johnnycnc said:


> I got a package of blanks first class, that had inadvertently been "under-stamped".
> They left the package and a little dun notice of postage due with it.
> I paid with pennies, loose in an envelope, back in the mailbox.:highfive:



Same here.  I think I left about $0.13 in an envelope for an under-stamped package once.  Seems to me that if you can stuff it into a flat rate box it ought to go for the flat rate price.  Don't really matter where the flaps are.  (Ed. I'm expecting a shipment from Exotics any day now.  You better have not stuck me with postage due!:befuddled:!!!)


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## LandfillLumber (Aug 19, 2009)

I had the medium flat rate box come back to me due to the flaps being a 1/4" apart.The thing is as many boxes as I ship I get batches that are glued wrong,and this makes it hard to get the flaps tight.The USPS says jump and I say how high.They have me in a spot as its a great way to ship smaller stuff like I sell.I can't have any tape on a flat rate envelope except to put the shipping label on with,well go to the USPS site and it says clear as day you may use tape to close it.I printed it of the site brought it in with me and they said no still,HMM.Its always something new with them,okay vent over.Victor


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## Randy_ (Aug 19, 2009)

FYI:  Here is what the USPS regs say.  Far as I know this is the most current information.  Print this out and take it with you to the PO if you have a problem.  It might help or it might not??














*New information:
Taken** from the Domestic Mail Manual Updated March 13, 2008Section 123  Rates and Eligibility
*
*1.0 Priority Mail Rates and Fees*​*1.4 Flat-Rate Envelopes and Boxes *

Any amount of material may be mailed in a USPS-produced Priority Mail flat-rate box or flat-rate envelope. When sealing a flat-rate box or flat-rate envelope, the container flaps must be able to close within the normal folds. Tape may be applied to the flaps and seams to reinforce the container, provided the design of the container is not enlarged by opening the sides and the container is not reconstructed in any way. 


*
Please  **Contact Us  if you have any questions or concerns.*​


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## altaciii (Aug 19, 2009)

jleiwig said:


> Ask her to show you this regulation in writing. I bet she shuts up. Every post office is different, and every worker in there is different depending on the day. _Of all government agencies I work with, the post office is the worst of the bunch._quote]
> 
> The part about all government agencies worries me.  Does "Cash for Clunkers" come from a government agency.  Will we ever get the money invested on all of those clunkers out behind my dealership?


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## MrPukaShell (Aug 19, 2009)

jfoh said:


> Key numbers to keep oin mind with the post office.
> 91, 1-1.5, 1%,  50%, 30, AK47
> 
> Average IQ of the Postal worker you get to deal with. 91
> ...



I was just wondering if you proof read prior to clicking on the "Submit" button.  Because if you don't you need to.  Read you first sentence, "oin", what was the IQ you were referring to?
I guess I am lucky to be one of the 1-1.5 out of a hundred that knows what I am talking about.
1% lost or slowly delivered for normal mail, what a deal.
I am not sure where you live but 50% of your items are not making it to you or they are slow in getting there?  I would question this one, where are the facts because I find this hard to believe.
I find it hard to believe you have even spoken to 91 postal employees.  Most only know their mailman.
This is my way of going "Postal" as you say.  I think you need educate yourself with postal regulations if you are having issues so you know what you are talking about.  Try PriorityMail.com to shed some light on the subject.

I work for the USPS and find some of these responses ridiculous. 

I will get the regulations for overstuffing flat rate boxes so you guys don't have issues when you mail if that will help.

The Post Office has come a long way in Customer Service around here.  If you are having issues in your town I am sorry to hear about it, but just the Facts next time.


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## BigShed (Aug 20, 2009)

Rick_G said:


> Unless you are shipping across the border to Canada in which case Fedx, UPS etc hit the person receiving the package with exorbitant charges for clearing customs.  ie. in one case I know of $40 for an item worth $10.



I'll drink to that! UPS in particular are the original robber barons when it comes to international deliveries, slow, rude and expensive just about sums it up. They are very "creative" with their charges the other end, basically they have you over a barrel. I will not accept delivery via UPS, rather go without.

This is an interesting thread, I have just been singing the praises of USPS on another (metal working) forum. I buy regularly from the US, as well as having been involved in pen/blanks swaps. All have used Flat Rate boxes/envelopes and all (except 1) have arrived here in around 7 days. I have been able to track these parcels all the way. In fact one very large parcel (not Flat Rate) arrived here a few weeks ago in 5 days, absolutely amazing.

Contrast this to the UK's Royal Mail charges and "service and Canada's mail "service" (horrendously expensive, slow and unreliable, they lost one parcel coming to me in a blank swap).

Obviously I do not have "over the counter" experience with USPS, but in any large organisation, be it public or private, there are people that give that organisation a bad name. Best thing to do is to complain to their superior, if no satisfaction is received, complain in writing.

On average I pay 2-3 times as much to send something to the US as it costs one of you to send something to me, count your blessings.


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## Gary Max (Aug 20, 2009)

And just think about it---------they are going broke and guess who's going to bail them out---------yup------------you and me.


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## Rifleman1776 (Aug 20, 2009)

I believe the postal service (and I use the word 'service' loosely) is on a campaign to either get rid of flat rate or to raise the charges.
Lately, the priority flat rate mailings I have sent took five days or more to reach their destination. I have called customer service and spoken with local P.O. supervisors. Their responses are identical, "There is no guaranteed delivery time with priority mail". Since the words are an identical mantra, I am more than a little suspicious big, and unpleasant, changes are coming. Regular first class and parcel post have been traveling faster than priority lately. I'm stopping use of priority and going with parcel post.


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## Gary Max (Aug 20, 2009)

Frank---think about it----the less trucks that run ---the more they make.


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## ed4copies (Aug 20, 2009)

Thanks to everyone, especially Randy.

And Robert, I have a very good friend that is a delivery person for the USPS, so I recognize there ARE good people.  In fact, I think MOST of the people are good.  It would be NICE if they KNEW the regulations.  Instead the local postmaster READ the regs 20 years ago and never reads an update.  This time, the information they repeated to me was correct.  Last time, they were arguing that the flat rate envelope could not have tape on it, clearly INcorrect.   

So, what I was hoping to find out was, WILL OUR CUSTOMERS HAVE TO PAY ANYTHING????  OR, if I just let the lady complain and take the box, is that the end of it?

We have shipped hundreds of boxes in the last couple years.  Spent thousands of dollars in postage.  While I don't think they NEED us, when the USPS is not making a profit, they might want to "stretch" their rules for the people who ARE using them.

OR NOT!!!!

After all, it is true that the taxpayers will bail them out.


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## IPD_Mrs (Aug 20, 2009)

It is a once in a blue moon situation when a carrier will try to collect from an addressee.  Generally it will be a city carrier that will do this and it is a power trip or pissed off situation.  If the addressee refuses the extra amount then the carrier has to take the package back to the post office and send it back which costs more than if they just delivered the package in the first place.
Rural carriers are a totally different situation and will not take the time to try and collect extra postage.  Their routes are based on volume and they are paid for the route.  So if the Post Office says this route from sorting, casing and delivering the mail takes 5.75 hours, then that is what they get paid whether it takes four hours or eight hours.  Every one that I have known try their best to get done about an hour faster which makes their pay essentially more.

In the last two years and over 8000 packages I have never had a customer tell me they had to pay more for a package when it arrived.  If it ever happened I would tell my customer to refuse the extra charges and package and to point out to the carrier it will cost them more to send it back than to deliver it as is.  .


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## mick (Aug 20, 2009)

Ed....this is hilarious! As I sat here reading this thread out loud to Connie, the doorbell rings. It's the postman with your package to me. There wasn't enough postage on it and he needed 92 cents. Have you pissed the wrong people off?
Don't worry I tipped him the extra 8 cents...You should be good now.
Mike


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## ed4copies (Aug 20, 2009)

mick said:


> Ed....this is hilarious! As I sat here reading this thread out loud to Connie, the doorbell rings. It's the postman with your package to me. There wasn't enough postage on it and he needed 92 cents. Have you pissed the wrong people off?
> *Don't worry* I tipped him the extra 8 cents...You should be good now.
> Mike



Mike,
YOU were not the one they complained about.  I am now *MORE WORRIED!!*

SORRY for the inconvenience!!!

We WILL look into UPS and FEDEX rates.  They might enjoy a couple hundred extra bucks a month.  Who knows????


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## Rick_G (Aug 20, 2009)

ed4copies said:


> We WILL look into UPS and FEDEX rates.  They might enjoy a couple hundred extra bucks a month.  Who knows????



Just stick with USPS for stuff to Canada. they do hit us with big charges virtually every time.


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## MrPukaShell (Aug 20, 2009)

mick said:


> Ed....this is hilarious! As I sat here reading this thread out loud to Connie, the doorbell rings. It's the postman with your package to me. There wasn't enough postage on it and he needed 92 cents. Have you pissed the wrong people off?
> Don't worry I tipped him the extra 8 cents...You should be good now.
> Mike



What was the reason for the extra Postage?  Was it mailed in a flat rate box?  If so what was the postage on the package?  92 cents postage due is an odd number is the reason I ask.


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## MrPukaShell (Aug 20, 2009)

[
We WILL look into UPS and FEDEX rates.  They might enjoy a couple hundred extra bucks a month.  Who knows????[/QUOTE]

Let us know the results on the different rates.  Can you also include delivery times as well on your test?  I say mail items using the different companies and see what the differences are and post the results.


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## thewishman (Aug 20, 2009)

I've had great service from the USPS, MUCH better than with UPS.

On the other hand, after reading the previous entries, won't it be great when the government takes over health care? Medical care is SO much simpler than Clunkers and mail service.


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## Daniel (Aug 21, 2009)

I know that for several years USPS has not been my top choice for sending packages, it has pretty much been my only one. I have not had enough problems to remember them specifically. A torn open package and lost items once in a great great while, and maybe a couple of completely lost packages. But concerns that "Things" will change is always on my mind.

I am not a postal worker but I am a government worker and I can tell you that using any argument that has to do with financial since is a total waste. I do not make the decisions on how we get things done. I just follow the decisions that have been made. I live every day surrounded by financially ridiculous situations. Trust me, reasoning that points out that it is a waste of $5.00 does not go far when I know I have two fork lifts setting in the back room that get a combined use of 3 hours  a month. but they are both necessary even though they cost over $100 a month just in routine maintenance. By the way I move most freight around with a hand truck that cost $90 and sees about 5 hours a day in use. maintenance is a shot of grease in each wheel once a year, if I remember. And this is a very tiny example of the waste. a resent fairly normal one was ordering Custodial supplies for a new 6 story building on campus. total coast over $150,000.00, after these supplies and equipment had already been purchased the decision was made to contract the custodial services. non of the equipment was ever used or returned. it now sets taking up room in one of my warehouses. It will eventually be used over the next 5 to 10 years. but if items worth hundreds of thousands of dollars are ignored, what chance does $5 have.


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## THarvey (Aug 21, 2009)

My post office has hassled me many time about "over stuffing" priority packages.  They have charged me additional postage on some items. :at-wits-end:

I started buying the flat-rate postage online.  When I print the label I check the box to not print the postage total.

They have not said anything to me when dropping off packages.

My theory is they have to do some work to find how much I paid.  Therefore, it is not worth their energy to hassle me anymore.


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## ed4copies (Aug 21, 2009)

Actually, Tim, their hand wand tells them the required postage and the postage you paid on paypal.  So, they can charge you the difference fairly easily.

We drop off most of the packages on our way home (between 8:30 and 10 PM).  The Post office is closed, but has a postal box designed for packages.  I don't believe they are scanned until they get to Milwaukee, we have NEVER gotten one back, even though we put international in with the mix.  (The RULES say you have to present international "in person" -- I believe they know by the return address that it was US posting them.  Since we were not terrorists in the past several months, we are probably safe again)

But, this IS why I am concerned.  Because there is no real "person" who sees and weighs, I don't want to have you guys having to pick up the packages and pay more.


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