# TSW



## rglinks (Feb 6, 2006)

Has anybody seen the lasting wear of TSW(Trade Secret for Wood)?

I have been experimenting with all kind of finishes from Mylands to CA and even home brews and so far nothing seem to last.

They all look good when first done but seem to last only about a week with constant use

Help !!!!!!!!!!  Need to find something that last....

Ron..


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## JimGo (Feb 6, 2006)

TSW is a wax, and is applied over your other finish.  It wears off fairly quickly, and is really meant more as a top coat to make everything shine (which it does well).  I love it as the "cherry" on top of my finishes.


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## DCBluesman (Feb 6, 2006)

Funny that you should say it wears off quickly, Jim.  Everyone else I talk to about it says the opposite.  In fact, I've got pens in regular use for a year and a half and all it ever takes is a quick hand buff with a cloth to bring the shine back up.  Also, it is far from just "a wax".  Maybe Mudder or it's_virgil or woodpens will chime in, since they've all been using it almost exclusively for over a year.


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## Gary Max (Feb 6, 2006)

Heck it goes on every pen I make. I think it holds up just fine.
I have never touched up any of my pens--they still have a nice shine on them. Even my everyday writers.
I think I used 4 bottles of TSW last year.


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## JimGo (Feb 6, 2006)

I stand corrected!  Sorry Lou!  I've only been using it regularly for a few months, and don't get to really polish up the pens on which it's been used since they went to others.  I'll have to steal one of my co-workers' pens to see if I can bring back the shine that easily.  If so, I'll be thrilled (as will they)!


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## woodpens (Feb 6, 2006)

As Lou said, I have been using the heck out of it. I find it very troublesome though. Once I started using it, I no longer like any of my pens without it! [] I use CA on pretty much all of my pens now. My last step of the finishing process is to wipe a coat of TSW and let it stand for a minute. Then, I buff it off with a soft rag while the lathe is running. The finish is slick and very shiney. It even smells good! This step also allows me to handle the barrels for pen assembly more quickly than when I wasn't using it. If you buy it through me, you can return it for a full refund if you aren't happy with it as I will certainly use the rest of it.


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## rglinks (Feb 6, 2006)

Ron again,

Thanks for all the info.  Here's another one .....  Anybody try Turner's Magic Super Gloss from WoodWrite Ltd.

Check This out   http://www.woodwriteltd.com

Gary....  How many coats do you apply of TSW

Ron....


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## wayneis (Feb 6, 2006)

I use a coat of TSW on every pen after I finish with Enduro.  My only complaint (and its not really a complaint) is that the finish is so slippery that I have to be carefull that I don't let the blanks squirt away from me after I first buff them. I also use it on all of my plastics, acrylics and lucites, hell I use it on everything.  TSW really puts a slick shine on the blanks, its the only finish coat that I use anymore.

Wayne


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## alamocdc (Feb 6, 2006)

Ron, I think Tom (Old Griz) has used it and he speaks favorably of it... from a friction polish stand point that is.


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## Mac In Oak Ridge (Feb 7, 2006)

I also use TSW as the final step in finishing.  Something about it just feels right.  I finish my pens with water base lacquer, run them through the final grits of micromesh and then put a finger on my TSW wipe it on the spinning pen body.  Let it sit for 30-45 seconds, spinning and then hold a clean paper towel against the spinning blank. It sure makes the final work sparkle.  

Wouldn't be with out my TSW!


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## jimbo 31751 (Feb 7, 2006)

I just started using tsw over my enduro finish and it seems to work very good, leaves a nice slick shine. I did not know it was used on plastics, but I will be giving that a try.


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## its_virgil (Feb 7, 2006)

I'll chime in. I've been using TSW for over a year consistently (and longer sporadically I'm sorry to say) and the one thing I like most about TSW is its build up quality. I personally think that it makes the pens look so nice because it gets into those micro scratches left by sanding and builds up the scratches to meet the surface of the rest of the pen. I like to get the pen surface VERY WARM on the last MM pad and immediately apply TSW. The heat causes the TSW to "melt" just a little and better get into those micro scratches. After drying to a haze I buff with a soft cloth. My CA/BLO finish has never looked better. (These are just my thoughts on the heat.) I really see a big difference in the finish after using TSW. And as Lou mentioned, a quick buff on those everayday writers brings the pen back to original shine. Thanks Lou for a great product.
Do a good turn daily!
Don






> _Originally posted by DCBluesman_
> <br />Funny that you should say it wears off quickly, Jim.  Everyone else I talk to about it says the opposite.  In fact, I've got pens in regular use for a year and a half and all it ever takes is a quick hand buff with a cloth to bring the shine back up.  Also, it is far from just "a wax".  Maybe Mudder or it's_virgil or woodpens will chime in, since they've all been using it almost exclusively for over a year.


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## Gary Max (Feb 7, 2006)

Ron I only apply one coat --- just like the rest of the folks-- at a low RPM ---let sit for a minute--wipe off with a clean soft rag. Sometimes at a show I will sit and clean my pens with TSW--- gets the finger prints off---plus folks want to see what I got that I take such good care of.


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## JimGo (Feb 7, 2006)

Thanks for the suggestion, Don (and Lou!).  I never really thought about just buffing the pen once the finish had lost its gloss; I just assumed I had to re-apply the TSW.  This is why I like coming here!


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## wdcav1952 (Feb 7, 2006)

> _Originally posted by wayneis_
> <br />I use a coat of TSW on every pen after I finish with Enduro.  My only complaint (and its not really a complaint) is that the finish is so slippery that I have to be carefull that I don't let the blanks squirt away from me after I first buff them. I also use it on all of my plastics, acrylics and lucites, hell I use it on everything.  TSW really puts a slick shine on the blanks, its the only finish coat that I use anymore.
> 
> Wayne



Ditto! [8D]


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## Dario (Feb 7, 2006)

Oh great...another good product that I just have to try [].  To date, I've been using RenWax exclusively.

Thank you all...LOML actually told me to order some after reading your comments [8D]


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## alamocdc (Feb 7, 2006)

Dario, you won't be disappointed! I too went with Ren Wax first. Still have two cans in fact and I still use it on some pens... just depends on the material and my mood. I was even using TSW over the Ren Wax at first, but was told that was unnecessary. However, I use TSW on ALL of my wood pens now. Fantastic stuff! Thanks, Lou!


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## Paul in OKC (Feb 7, 2006)

Deffinately good stuff. I don't make a pen without it[8D]


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## wdcav1952 (Feb 7, 2006)

Dario,

Leftover Ren Wax is great for lubricating the ways of your lathe! []


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## its_virgil (Feb 7, 2006)

I purchased RenWax, used it on a few pens and the rest has dried out. I didn't like the oily feel of RenWax. What is dried out RenWax good for?
Do a good turn daily!
Don


> _Originally posted by Dario_
> <br />Oh great...another good product that I just have to try [].  To date, I've been using RenWax exclusively.
> 
> Thank you all...LOML actually told me to order some after reading your comments [8D]


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## Monty (Feb 7, 2006)

Looks like someone will be getting a lot of orders for TSW. I ordered some also after reading this post earlier today.


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## ccarse (Feb 7, 2006)

Where's the best place to buy it?


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## alamocdc (Feb 7, 2006)

Woodpens, Arizona Silhouette and there are others. This is just off the top of my head.


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## JimGo (Feb 7, 2006)

http://www.pocwoodworking.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=452

http://www.arizonasilhouette.com/Pen_Kit_Finishing_Supplies_&_Tools.htm

http://www.woodpens.com/tsw.htm


There may be some other places too...hopefully others will chime in.


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## woodpens (Feb 7, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Monty_
> <br />Looks like someone will be getting a lot of orders for TSW. I ordered some also after reading this post earlier today.


You were right! []
Although I sell TSW, I really do use more than I sell. I love the stuff.


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## ncboyntx (Feb 8, 2006)

We need an emoticon with a dunce hat for us newbies []


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## L32 (Feb 8, 2006)

After reading all the praise on TSW I ordered some from Jim


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## lkorn (Feb 9, 2006)

> _Originally posted by rglinks_
> <br />Ron again,
> 
> Thanks for all the info.  Here's another one .....  Anybody try Turner's Magic Super Gloss from WoodWrite Ltd.
> ...



Turners Magic is probably the finiest commercially amde friction polish out there.  Primarily because it is LACQUER Based, vice Shellac.  Shellac wears quickly, lacquer lasts.  However it really is not pertinent to the current discussion of TSW which is polishing wax, the last step before assembling and selling your pen.


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## L32 (Feb 16, 2006)

Just got my first can of TSW from Jim, All I can say is WOW[][] that is good stuff. It really made a big diffrence in my finishes.


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## DCBluesman (Feb 17, 2006)

Thanks to those of you who have said such nice things about TSW.  Those who have been on the forum awhile know much of the history, but for those of you who are new to the site, I thought a little background might be helpful.

TSW was developed nearly two years ago by a me and a friend (in his spare time) who is a chemist for duPont.  I wanted something special for my pens...something which would add a significant layer of protection over virtually any finish.  I also wanted something that could be buffed to deliver anything from a satin to a high gloss finish.  The product we came up with combines a long chain polymer (think of our polyester resin for a comparison), pure, white carnauba wax, a non-hazardous softening agent, cocoanut oil, essence of a specific tropical plant, and a UV inhibitor.  Although many folks have asked for the details of what is in TSW and in what proportions, we keep that a trade secret since the cost of obtaining and defending a patent is not practical for a little product like this.  

After trying it for a few months, I had about 20 volunteers from this site test the product and deliver feedback right here on the forum. TSW has been tested and performed and continues to perform well over many different shellac based friction finishes, many lacquer based friction finishes, many solvent based lacquers, many water borne lacquers, CA finish, Enduro, tung oil, polyurethane, synthetic resins (acetates, polyesters and the like) and even over raw wood itself.  The response from the outset has been nothing short of amazing.

In the first few months of selling TSW, several vendors contacted me about distributing it.  They each tested the product themselves. In one case the test lasted three months while the owner and a couple of his employees used and abused the finish (right, Bill? [8D]).  These three signed up and remain my only distributors (I really don't like the world of big business, so I'm picky about who I select as distributors.)

In the past 8 months or so I have had several problems with my supply of pure, white carnauba.  A shipment was hijacked, literally.  Four of my supplier's trees were cut down and removed from his property by bandits.  Still, he and I continue to work together to do what we can to keep the supply flowing.

Due in no small part to this and similar threads, two of my three suppliers are out of stock and the third has very limited supply on hand.  This condition is temporary as I just got word that my supplies have reached port and I should be able to make more within about a week.  I use Priority Mail for my suppliers, so they should have product in hand in two weeks or less.  Thanks for your patience!

Several large, well-known business have asked to distribute the product over the past year, but so far I'm doing just fine with these good folks.  I think I'll just keep these three for the forseeable future.  

Sheila:  Pens of Color (www.pocwoodworking.com)  My first distributor and <u>one of the sweetest ladies you will run into in our hobby</u>.

Jim: Woodpens.com  (www.woodpens.com)  A first rate pen turner who also sells some wonderful denim shirts with the IAP logo on them.  <u>Jim's a long-time friend</u>.

Bill:  Arizona Silhouette (www.arizonasilhouette.com)  Bill runs one of the best independent internet pen-turning (and other turnings) supply shops on the internet.  <u>Bill (and his wonderful wife Kathy) are great and close personal friends</u>.

I've had the pleasure of knowing each of these folks for at least a year...probably longer.  They are good people to do business with.  The only financial relationship I have with any of their businesses is that I supply TSW to them. So while there is a small, admitted bias, I strongly recommend each of them.

If anyone has questions about TSW that you feel are not appropriate for the forum, please feel free to contact me via the email function.  I promise a response!


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## DCBluesman (Feb 26, 2006)

TSW ships to all of my distributors Monday via Priority Mail.


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## woodpens (Feb 26, 2006)

> _Originally posted by DCBluesman_
> <br />TSW ships to all of my distributors Monday via Priority Mail.


Yes! Thank you, thank you, thank you! []


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## punkinn (Feb 26, 2006)

Okay, I give.   Order submitted.   Too much peer pressure!  [][)]   

Can't wait to try this stuff.  Thanks for all your hard work, Lou!  

Nancy


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## smoky10 (Feb 26, 2006)

I still have some TSW from when it was called Presidents Choice. I'll keep this one unopened.


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## alamocdc (Feb 26, 2006)

Nancy, you won't be disappointed!


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## oldflyer2 (Feb 27, 2006)

A technical question about TSW. I live in Canada and have to get the stuff mailed to me. Will the possibility of freezing this time of year hurt it?

Tom


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## DCBluesman (Feb 27, 2006)

I sent some to eastern BC last winter.  I know it sat in the recipient's car for several days.  According to him, it still worked great.  There's nothing in it that should be negatively impacted by the cold, although a room temperature application is preferred such that the softener can evaporate.


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## JimGo (Feb 27, 2006)

I can attest to that Lou.  My "shop" is outside and unheated (except for the space heater I occasionally use), and I used to keep my TSW out there.  It's been through some pretty hot days over the summer, and several nights in the single digits this winter, yet it still works great.


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## oldflyer2 (Feb 27, 2006)

Thanks for the replies. I will have some on the way as soon as P.O.C. gets some more.

Tom


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## wudwrkr (Feb 27, 2006)

I just started using TSW and have a question for the experts who use a buffing wheel for finishing the pens.  Do you apply and buff the TSW in the same way you do the white diamond or will the buffing wheel just take off the coating?


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## DCBluesman (Feb 27, 2006)

I guess I'm as close to an expert as we have on the site, so here goes.  TSW is meant to be wiped on, wait 45 seconds (or a little longer), then wipe the excess off.  It can be hand or power buffed right away.  You can buff it to a simple satin finish or stay with it a few more seconds and take it to a high gloss.  Make sure however you buff it that the material is clean.

Also, for those who haven't tried it, you can use it to build coats by allowing an hour or two between coats.  If you build several coats, wait overnight (at least) before assembling your pen.  It does need to cure and the more coats you put on the longer the cure takes.   FYI,  White diamond will simply take it off.  

And Tom, POC should have their re-supply by about Wendesday.  Thanks for your patience.


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## wudwrkr (Feb 27, 2006)

Tom,
Thanks for the advice.  I have been applying TSW after buffing with White Diamond and have been very pleased with the results, I just wanted to make sure it was ok to power buff.  Now I'll have to try a second coat and see the difference!!  Thanks again for creating this great product!!


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## Mac In Oak Ridge (Feb 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by JimGo_
> <br />I can attest to that Lou.  My "shop" is outside and unheated (except for the space heater I occasionally use), and I used to keep my TSW out there.  It's been through some pretty hot days over the summer, and several nights in the single digits this winter, yet it still works great.



I have the same situation.  My TSW sits in my shop all the time.  Not as cold in Oak Ridge, NC as in Canada but we have had temperatures below 20Â°F a few days this winter and quite a few below 30Â°F.  I have seen no deterioration of the product at all.


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## oldflyer2 (Feb 28, 2006)

Thanks for the help.

It has been a mild winter here. It only got down to -35 for a couple of days instead of a few weeks this year.

Looking forward to getting some of this stuff.

Tom


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## rlh (Feb 28, 2006)

After reading all of the posts it sounds to me like you people apply TSW over your finish coat immediately after applying the finish coat. I think I remember reading a post a while back stating that the TSW damaged the finish coat because it was applied before it had cured but I cannot put my finger on that post. Please enlighten me. Thanks.


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## DCBluesman (Feb 28, 2006)

If you are putting TSW over another finish, be sure the other finish has cured.  There is a mild, non-petroleum based softener in TSW which could interfere with the curing of the original finish.  Depending on which finish you use, you should wait between overnight (for CA) and a few days (for lacquer or Enduro).  Essentially, if your pen is ready to assemble, it's ready for TSW.


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## oldflyer2 (Feb 28, 2006)

Another technical question ...

Will TSW put any kind of protective coating on Bronze or Aluminum. I want to make some custom fittings from metal and I am looking for something (other than powder coating)to protect them with.

I am mainly looking at center bands for now and I don't think they get as much wear and tear as a pen barrel.

Thanks

Tom


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## DCBluesman (Mar 1, 2006)

Tom--I use Renaissance Wax when I want to protect anything metal, although TSW certainly will add some protection.


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## oldflyer2 (Mar 1, 2006)

Thanks for the info. I have some Ren wax so I will try that as well.

Tom


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## punkinn (Mar 4, 2006)

Rec'd my TSW and used some yesterday.  May I say...  *DROOL*    What a slick, nice finish.   Well-done, Lou!   Me likey!

Nancy


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## exoticwo (Mar 5, 2006)

Can someone please explain the difference between TSW and Renaissance Wax. Seems to me that they both do the same thing, protect the wood finish. I have been using EEE and Shellawax which seems to put quite a good finish on my pens.


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## wdcav1952 (Mar 5, 2006)

> _Originally posted by exoticwo_
> <br />Can someone please explain the difference between TSW and Renaissance Wax. Seems to me that they both do the same thing, protect the wood finish. I have been using EEE and Shellawax which seems to put quite a good finish on my pens.



Al,first off, the following is my opinion only, and totally worth what you pay for it.

Like many of us, I started off with EEE and Shellawax.  It looks acceptable when finished, but the finish wears off rapidly, leaving, on my pens at least, a dull look that I did not care for.  I have used CA/BLO, CA alone, Enduro, and Deft for finishes.  My personal preference is for Enduro most of the time, and Deft when I feel like it. []

As for the difference between Ren Wax and TSW, I am really not an expert.  I have used both, and had good results with both.  The decision for me was that I preferred smelling the coconut smell of TSW over the oil smell of Ren Wax.  I'm sure someone else will chime in with a professional opinion/explanation, but that is mine.

FWIW,


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## DCBluesman (Mar 5, 2006)

Al, from one perspective, you are right.  Both products are meant to protect your finish.  A number of members her and on other forums use TSW as a finish, particularly on oily woods like lignum vitae, cocobolo, olivewood, etc.  TSW is based on a formula of poly resin and carnauba wax.  Renaissance Was is a microcrystalline wax and, thus, based on petroleum.  Another thing about TSW is I make it, I test it, I sell to my small number of distributors and I guarantee it.  If you don't like  it, most of my distributors will refund the purchase price.  For any who don't, I will refund the purchase price.


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## BigRob777 (Mar 6, 2006)

I just love TSW.  It even has a pleasant fragrance.  I have even used it in a pinch, to lube the threads on my stopper mandrel.  It only takes a minute amount, so it lasts a long time too.  Of course, I'm biased, now that I will be carrying it in my line-up, but I wanted it because it is great stuff.  Lou has really made a great contribution to the penturning world.  I can't say how long it lasts, as my pens go too quickly.[]
Rob


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## huntersilver (Mar 6, 2006)

Hi DC,  I use a friction polish, several coats, then RenWax.  A lot of the other finishes require too much added labor or harmful fumes for me.  Of course the trade off is the finish does not last as long.  Will the TSW enhance the durability of a friction polish?


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## rglinks (Mar 6, 2006)

question for  DCBluesman

Does applying more that one coat of TSW enhance the durability ?

Is there a curing time before you can touch the product ?

Thanks Ahead of Time

Ron


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## wayneis (Mar 6, 2006)

Nothing in my opinion wuill make friction polish last any longer than what you already get.  If you want a finish that has no toxic smells then give Enduro a try, you can even now try it in small 2oz. bottles from Ernie at Beartooth Hardwoods.  Enduro is a water base polyurathane that is a commercial product and its made for bar and table tops.  Most people who have tried it really like it even though it takes a little more time than some finishes to apply.

Wayne



> _Originally posted by huntersilver_
> <br />Hi DC,  I use a friction polish, several coats, then RenWax.  A lot of the other finishes require too much added labor or harmful fumes for me.  Of course the trade off is the finish does not last as long.  Will the TSW enhance the durability of a friction polish?


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## DCBluesman (Mar 6, 2006)

A quick response to the last three posts.  First, TSW over friction polish will definitely give it more durability...not the durability of CA, lacquer or Enduro, but more than shellac-based friction polish.  I'll try to get an updated photo of my first pen so you can see the durability later this evening.  As for more than one coat.  I do it all the time.  It's definitely a build-capable product.  Keep in mind that is does have a softener in it, so you should give it a couple of hours, better yet overnight, between coats (or at least between every two coats).  As for when can you touch it, it is dry enough for light handling immediately after buffing - 1 minute after application.  It will be 90% cured overnight and can then be assembled without fear of damage.


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