# stop making the same pens as me



## Rchan63 (Oct 7, 2011)

I just got a PM from a woodworker on another woodworking forum. Last week I did a show and another woodworker was there. We meet last year and he showed me some of the stuff he made and we talked a little. 
Well this year we are both there again and well I'll let you read his PM to me.


HIM:
After thinking about this during the past week, I decided that the best thing would be to write to you directly and tell you how I felt at last week’s craft fair. Last year, when we talked at the Fair, we discussed that you needed to increase your offerings if you were going to be successful at the fairs. I showed you the items that I sell as an example. With the whole world of woodworking items at your fingertips, I was aghast to see that you had copied my two items that I had showed you. While I understand that these items are not subject to copy write laws, I believe that your actions were really quite unethical. 
I understand that you are planning to work other craft fairs, and to the extent that we are working some of the same fairs, I would ask that you find other items to build and sell, rather than copying my items

ME: I think you are taking it the wrong way if you remember I did have (blank) and other non pen related items. I just didn't have as many as you had. I had a couple of(blank) + a couple of (blank). I been making it for over 3 years. 
I had always made them out of walnut and maple and if I remember correctly you have them only in maple. I will admit the (blank) thing I got from you. If I see you at the same show with the same design I will pull them from my display. 

Food for thought: If I see another pen turner at the same show should I aproach them and say you shouldn't be selling the same pens as me cause I'm here? 


HIM:
As for your pen question....if they were identical, and he KNEW you were selling the same thing, same style, same wood, then yes! 

OK you guys and gals. I have dibs on all pens and the materials for pen making.


What do you think am I unethical?


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## Seer (Oct 7, 2011)

Regardless hand crafted items like we make are not identical no matter what he thinks.  How many here make JR Gents, Baron's, Sierra's etc and for someone to say quit making the same thing because I make them, if that were true none of us here would be able to make anything after the first one made by someone else shows up.  Cartridge Pens are a good example, PC Pens, and on and on.  Each of us prides ourselves with creating custom objects and though I may use the same components and the same wood mine are different regardless of what anyone thinks.  IMHO this took a lot of gall for him to say and write. jmho


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## Timebandit (Oct 7, 2011)

Thats just like 2 woodturners that only turn bowls, and they both make a bowl out of walnut, and 1 tells the other that he cant make a bowl out of walnut because he already makes one and sells it at this show. Noone has dibs on any item. Hes got a lot of gall saying something like that.


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## Rchan63 (Oct 7, 2011)

Thank you for the support guys and imho he is a much better woodworker than I by far.


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## jnelson (Oct 7, 2011)

Personally, I would make two new items, and give them to him as gifts:

I would make a nice box to hold all of his tissues so he could dry his tears, and a nice wooden mallet to help him remove the chip from his shoulder.

Now, having said that, I have been told on occasion that I have a somewhat sarcastic attitude, and tend to be a smart a$$.


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## Wooden Affairs (Oct 7, 2011)

It is a free country. I would not ask that of him. Maybe he needs to find a way to truly make his product unique something that can not be easily mimicked. Then he will have firmer ground to stand on but it will still be a bit shaky.


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## hewunch (Oct 7, 2011)

Personally, I think he is a pompous curmudgeon! Not only is it ethical that you make the same stuff, it is encouraged. IF, the fair said only 1 person per type of item in the show and you got into the show with something else then pulled them out... THAT would be unethical.


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## Displaced Canadian (Oct 7, 2011)

It is a slightly complicated issue. If I did shows and a second woodworker did the same circuit I would try to make my products distinctly different so to limit the direct competition. However with both being woodworkers there is bound to be some overlap. If you are intentionally trying to copy him then you would be wrong. If you both use one of the same style kit that is just life. If you made 100 pens and I made 100 pens even though we have never met I would bet my breakfast that there would be at least 1 pen that was the same.


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## Rchan63 (Oct 7, 2011)

Well he was complaining about two items and one I was already making and I offer to make a different design for the 2nd item and offered  if we're both in the same show and have the same design I would pull it off by display.



Displaced Canadian said:


> It is a slightly complicated issue. If I did shows and a second woodworker did the same circuit I would try to make my products distinctly different so to limit the direct competition. However with both being woodworkers there is bound to be some overlap. If you are intentionally trying to copy him then you would be wrong. If you both use one of the same style kit that is just life. If you made 100 pens and I made 100 pens even though we have never met I would bet my breakfast that there would be at least 1 pen that was the same.


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## snyiper (Oct 7, 2011)

jnelson said:


> Personally, I would make two new items, and give them to him as gifts:
> 
> I would make a nice box to hold all of his tissues so he could dry his tears, and a nice wooden mallet to help him remove the chip from his shoulder.
> 
> Now, having said that, I have been told on occasion that I have a somewhat sarcastic attitude, and tend to be a smart a$$.


 
I like this one and would use Maple!!!!


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## renowb (Oct 7, 2011)

I would say to heck with him! Even large corporations tend to borrow so called  secrets to enhance their products


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## intillzah (Oct 7, 2011)

Like I say, much to the dismay of some of the people here:

"there is nothing wrong with stealing an IDEA......"


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## edicehouse (Oct 7, 2011)

snyiper said:


> jnelson said:
> 
> 
> > Personally, I would make two new items, and give them to him as gifts:
> ...


 
I make mine out of maple.....You have to pull yours and make them out of something else.


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## btboone (Oct 7, 2011)

The real trick is to come up with something he hasn't yet considered.  It's tough to do, but you'll have a better market and be able to increase pricing if you can do that.  Find a niche and fill it.


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## BSea (Oct 7, 2011)

I take a somewhat different view (maybe).  You don't really identify the items, and from what I've read, it sounds sort of like you are making the same pen model out of the same wood.  To me that's not copying.  

Now I use this as an example.  Let's say I was talking to someone on this forum that makes pens using cut out state quarters.  And I was visiting his booth, and he told me to expand my offerings.  I don't think it would be ethical to copy his idea (like I could :bulgy-eyes.  Legally, it's probably ok.  But there is a difference in what is legal, and what is ethical.  

Just my 2¢.


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## nativewooder (Oct 7, 2011)

It doesn't matter whether he is a better woodturner than you.  It's a free country and it sounds like he doesn't want any competition.  The next time you are both in the same show, give him a "free" box of tissues!:wink:


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## seamus7227 (Oct 7, 2011)

nativewooder said:


> The next time you are both in the same show, give him a "free" box of tissues!:wink:


 
PRICELESS!!!


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## wolftat (Oct 7, 2011)

Rich, if you need a hand, I am willing to show up at the show and set up with you. I have over 1000 pens in stock and we can tell him to not make anything that resembles anything we make.....LOL... Some of these people at the shows need to remember that they didn't invent this art and I personally like it when there is another turner at a show, just makes my stuff look better (usually).


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## Smitty37 (Oct 7, 2011)

*Common items*

Personally, I'd ignore him.  Craft shows tend to be populated with many identical or almost identical items - whatever is popular at the moment.  If you go to them you should expect someone else to be selling the same or nearly the same stuff unless the show specifically takes steps to prevent it. 

A few years ago when I went to craft shows there would be wood items for sale - hutches, wall cabinets, coat hangers, time out chairs, etc.  There might be half a dozen folks selling them....most of them looked like the came from the same place and they all had cute little hearts cut out somewhere.  The last time I went it was stars.  Personally I doubt that most of the "crafters" were even making their own.  I saw more than one tiny sticker that said "Made in China" or "Made in India" or some other third world country.


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## Holz Mechaniker (Oct 7, 2011)

So we have kits that are mass produced.  Bushings that are mass produced within particular tolerances for a particular kit. All are designed, regardless of minute artistic liberties, different materials, all will make the same damn pen.  
That guy is a schmuck.  Don't even justify his letter by return correspondence of any length except for a post card with "Whatever" written on it.


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## terryf (Oct 7, 2011)

Two guys making the same things out of the same materials and selling them at the same show is called competition and its extremely healthy IMHO


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## Andrew_K99 (Oct 7, 2011)

You could also try to work with him, and try to offer different items so your prices aren't easily compared.  If both of you are selling a Walnut Jr. Gent II but your price is twice his then it could hurt both of you.  See if you can agree that only you will sell kit X and him kit Y, sure there will be some over lap but it could help the both of you.  Maybe one of you focus on acrylic and the other wood?  if he's been around a lot longer you may need to work with him to some degree.

AK


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## Curly (Oct 7, 2011)

Andrew_K99 said:


> You could also try to work with him, and try to offer different items so your prices aren't easily compared.  If both of you are selling a Walnut Jr. Gent II but your price is twice his then it could hurt both of you.  See if you can agree that only you will sell kit X and him kit Y, sure there will be some over lap but it could help the both of you.  Maybe one of you focus on acrylic and the other wood?  if he's been around a lot longer you may need to work with him to some degree.
> 
> AK



Just curious Andrew, what would you suggest happen if there were one or two more pen turners at the next show, and again after that? I somehow don't see how an agreement will work out when the dynamics can easily change.


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## RussFromNH (Oct 7, 2011)

Post a sign in front of the <blank> saying "New and Inproved!" or "Don't settle for second best (three tables over)!"


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## Rchan63 (Oct 7, 2011)

RussFromNH said:


> Post a sign in front of the <blank> saying "New and Inproved!" or "Don't settle for second best (three tables over)!"


 
That's funny; actually 3 rows back:biggrin:


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## fred holsclaw (Oct 7, 2011)

did a show last weekend and had another turner buy two pepper mills from me 
said he could not make them . gave him a good discount and told him thanks


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## ghostrider (Oct 7, 2011)

There really isn't enough information to call it either way.



BSea said:


> I take a somewhat different view (maybe).  You don't really identify the items, and from what I've read, it sounds sort of like you are making the same pen model out of the same wood.  To me that's not copying.
> 
> Now I use this as an example.  Let's say I was talking to someone on this forum that makes pens using cut out state quarters.  And I was visiting his booth, and he told me to expand my offerings.  I don't think it would be ethical to copy his idea (like I could :bulgy-eyes.  Legally, it's probably ok.  But there is a difference in what is legal, and what is ethical.
> 
> Just my 2¢.


That hits the nail on the head.

Maybe I should market a Woodchuck Pen Pro, and call it a ghostrider Pen Pro, or maybe I should market my very own "Tru-Quater Blanks".

I'll put them right next to my versions of the Russ-Line, and Fat-Line pens. 

Funny how greed can pollute things.

People on this forum get downright hostile when someone copies a product like the Pen Pro, but it's okay to steal other people's ideas. 

As long as it's not in my back yard.


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## joefyffe (Oct 7, 2011)

Personally, I have never seen two pieces of Gods wood creations with exactly the same grain pattern or two of Jonothans Polyester Resin creations with exactly the same swirl pattern.  I feel if it could be done, those are the two who could do it, and NO, I am NOT sacroreligiously equating Jonothan to God.  Let the man step back to the end of IAP membership roll, become member 11,000 or whatever and just try to make anything that one of us has not made something similar to.  CASE CLOSED!


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## Timebandit (Oct 7, 2011)

ghostrider said:


> There really isn't enough information to call it either way.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Who said anything about stealing ideas. The only person accusing anybody is this guy accusing Richard, who thinks he owns things and he also doesnt say ideas, he says items, so this leads one to believe that he has the same items as the other guy( they bought the same pen Kits or whatever) which they can both buy, maybe even from the same supplier, and Richard said that he was already making the same item as the other guy, but he was actually making them in 2 woods rather than 1. We are talking about store bought items that they can both aquire. You are talking about 1 man who made a great product, who pushed it for years and then had someone try to steal the name of his product out right. Not even in the same realm. Or the Tru-quarters. Different realm. Maybe you should ask Richard exactly what he was selling so you can make a better assumption, as you said in your first line that you didnt have enough information to call it either way. Sure seems like you are accusing him of stealing.


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## Rchan63 (Oct 7, 2011)

Well I have to apologize, I didn't really think it matter what was made. But to clearifly he is disbuting about how he made cutting board and wine bottle balancer. You all seen it it's made from a piece of wood with a hole drill on the top and the bottom with a 45 dergree. He thought it was inappropriate for me to make and sell. 
What I told him was I don't think it was his original idea and he don't own the rights to it.


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## Timebandit (Oct 7, 2011)

Rchan63 said:


> Well I have to apologize, I didn't really think it matter what was made. But to clearifly he is disbuting about how he made cutting board and wine bottle balancer. You all seen it it's made from a piece of wood with a hole drill on the top and the bottom with a 45 dergree. He thought it was inappropriate for me to make and sell.
> What I told him was I don't think it was his original idea and he don't own the rights to it.



Thanks Richard. It didnt matter, but that clears it all up. He didnt come up with that idea, so he has no right to ask you not to make it. And a cutting board, he didnt come up with that i know, otherwise he's like a 1000 years old. If he didnt show that to you and you saw it from someone else the next day and started to make them, he probably still would have asked you not to make them, just seems like that kind of guy. He doesnt want the competion. He also might think that yours were better and felt a little inferior, so he felt the need to say something.


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## navycop (Oct 7, 2011)

I agree with these other people. They sell the plans on line for cutting boards and wine balancers so anyone can make them. The area I am afraid of offending anybody is in making decal pens. I see a lot of great ideas on here, but am worried about duplicating them. For instance the ones with dog tag designes. I live in a military populated area and these would sell well. I just don't want to infringe on anyones idea.


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## Haynie (Oct 7, 2011)

Forward him this guy's website.

http://g3studios.net/content/view/14/113/

Scroll down.


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## Smitty37 (Oct 7, 2011)

*Dog Tags ----*



navycop said:


> I agree with these other people. They sell the plans on line for cutting boards and wine balancers so anyone can make them. The area I am afraid of offending anybody is in making decal pens. I see a lot of great ideas on here, but am worried about duplicating them. For instance the ones with dog tag designes. I live in a military populated area and these would sell well. I just don't want to infringe on anyones idea.


 
Nothing new about adapting dog tags to all kinds of things - they were doing that at least 50 years ago - somebody in the family still has mine which were inlaid into a block of wood to make a paper weight....that would have been 1960 at the latest.


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## gingerwood (Oct 7, 2011)

Haynie said:


> Forward him this guy's website.
> 
> http://g3studios.net/content/view/14/113/
> 
> Scroll down.



or even this
http://www.brookstone.com/grape-vin...iid=SearchResults|CategoryProductList|750709p


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## TellicoTurning (Oct 7, 2011)

Hey Richard,
I make a wine bottle stand like this... I don't want you to copy it or sell it at any show where I might be selling mine.... :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

I use all kinds of woods, so you can't make them from different wood either...:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:


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## jfoh (Oct 7, 2011)

It is a free country and free speech. The other fellow can say what he wants but that does not give him exclusive rights to anything. Look at the pens posted here. Most new ones are copied many times over in the next few days. Some are better and some are worse but all are inspired by the first. The other wood worker should be flattered that you copied or improved on his work.


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## Rchan63 (Oct 7, 2011)

TellicoTurning said:


> Hey Richard,
> I make a wine bottle stand like this... I don't want you to copy it or sell it at any show where I might be selling mine.... :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:
> 
> I use all kinds of woods, so you can make them from different wood either...:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:


 
You have any dimmension or instructions?:biggrin: I promise to stay away from TN


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## TellicoTurning (Oct 7, 2011)

Rchan63 said:


> TellicoTurning said:
> 
> 
> > Hey Richard,
> ...



I need to go out to my shop... (tomorrow, it's dark as a dungeon outside now)... and I'll get the book that I made these from and give you all the details...


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## joefyffe (Oct 7, 2011)

*Infringement*

Mike, you are NOT infringing on anyone.  Go 4 it!!! 
They should be spending their time Thanking you for your service, NOT bit**ing about your chosen patterns for items that would bring joy into someone elses life!  GO FOR IT !!!!!!!

///





navycop said:


> I agree with these other people. They sell the plans on line for cutting boards and wine balancers so anyone can make them. The area I am afraid of offending anybody is in making decal pens. I see a lot of great ideas on here, but am worried about duplicating them. For instance the ones with dog tag designes. I live in a military populated area and these would sell well. I just don't want to infringe on anyones idea.


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## arioux (Oct 7, 2011)

Rchan63 said:


> TellicoTurning said:
> 
> 
> > Hey Richard,
> ...



look a this thread

http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=87159

Post #7


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## ghostrider (Oct 7, 2011)

Timebandit said:


> ghostrider said:
> 
> 
> > There really isn't enough information to call it either way.
> ...


  Your misunderstanding my post.    





Timebandit said:


> The only person accusing anybody is this guy accusing Richard, who thinks he owns things and he also doesnt say ideas, he says items, so this leads one to believe that he has the same items as the other guy( they bought the same pen Kits or whatever) which they can both buy, maybe even from the same supplier, and Richard said that he was already making the same item as the other guy, but he was actually making them in 2 woods rather than 1.


  Richards post was pretty generic, so I didn't see anything about that in it. That's why I said "not enough info".





Timebandit said:


> We are talking about store bought items that they can both aquire.


  That's what it sounds like a lot of people in this thread think, but again, Richard left out such details. I simply didn't assume that he was referring to what you reference.    





Timebandit said:


> You are talking about 1 man who made a great product, who pushed it for years and then had someone try to steal the name of his product out right. Not even in the same realm. Or the Tru-quarters. Different realm. Maybe you should ask Richard exactly what he was selling so you can make a better assumption,


     I made no assumption. Richard didn't distinguish between an idea or item, other than to say that he did get that "thing" from the guy. The only people I saw who equated it to anything were others in this thread. I simply chose to not make such an assumption, which is why I qualified my post with the initial sentence. 





Timebandit said:


> as you said in your first line that you didnt have enough information to call it either way.


   Which is precisely why I didn't.   





Timebandit said:


> Sure seems like you are accusing him of stealing.


   I don't know how you can get that from, "Not enough information to go on."  Like I said, you misunderstood my post. 

At that time, I had no idea what Richard did that cause the man to, "cry foul!". He claimed to have been making one of the items for years, and admitted to getting one, "thing..." from him. 

My comment about the "stealing ideas" was not meant for Richard, since I knew there wasn't enough info , but how quick people were to defend someone without that info. It was also a reference to the widespread use of copyrighted material among this community as a whole (Not just IAP). I admit it may have been a little out of context, but I thought it did correspond with the tone of defending an unknown action (Richard had not revealed the nature of the offense).  That's the way I saw it, and if I'm wrong so be it. Hopefully this makes it a little clearer.


I think if you take the entire post (My previous post), you should see that I wasn't pointing out that I didn't know about Richard's prediciment, and also that I was commenting on the quoted post. Hopefully this makes it a little clearer.


BTW:

Love the kitless work you've been doing.


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## Daniel (Oct 7, 2011)

If you are talking about simply making a certain style pen with a certain type of wood. Then I would tell the guy sorry but there is not anything there to be protecting. I tend to put very subtle touches to my pens that make them flow better to my eye and are more pleasing to me. When I post photos of them I tend to see that same shape or touch added to others work. I don't consider this stealing my work because it is something that very likely appealed to them as it did me and is not anything that is not almost obvious to me anyway. I doubt many of them ever saw my pens. Now if I where to make something with a significant degree of customizing then yes it would eventually cross that line of taking my ideas. Still I don't personally care but others do. I have tried to copy some of the pens I have seen here but never try to sell them. for me that is just wrong. But a so and so pen in walnut?? give me a break. If someone approached me about something that simple I would simply tell them to find something to make that they did not need to be so concerned about competition.


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## ribanett (Oct 7, 2011)

*Dog Tags*



navycop said:


> I agree with these other people. They sell the plans on line for cutting boards and wine balancers so anyone can make them. The area I am afraid of offending anybody is in making decal pens. I see a lot of great ideas on here, but am worried about duplicating them. *For instance the ones with dog tag designes.* I live in a military populated area and these would sell well. I just don't want to infringe on anyones idea.



Mike,

I believe I was the first to post about putting a dog tag image on a rifle cartridge. The dog tag is just a background to hold the images and text I apply to it. GO FOR IT!!  There is money to be made.

If you think of the whole military market (Army, AF, Navy, Marines, National Guard, Air National Guard and Reserves), and 1000 turners made imaged cartridge pens, I think only a dent would be made in the avaiable market.


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## Rchan63 (Oct 7, 2011)

Everyone calm down please, I didn't mean to get anyone upset. I didn't copy someones life long design and hard work, it was only a wine balancer and it's all over the internet. I took the easiest design cause I'm lazy. As for the cutting board it's a cutting board. How many design can they be? I made strips out of walnut and maple and glued them together. Anyone who want to make them please do and you can even sell them in the shows I'm in. It's no big deal.
The Show before this last Saturday I had 2 other vendor selling the same cutting boards. You think I should tell them to go home because I'm selling here.


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## ghostrider (Oct 8, 2011)

Rchan63 said:


> Everyone calm down please, I didn't mean to get anyone upset. I didn't copy someones life long design and hard work, it was only a wine balancer and it's all over the internet. I took the easiest design cause I'm lazy. As for the cutting board it's a cutting board. How many design can they be? I made strips out of walnut and maple and glued them together. Anyone who want to make them please do and you can even sell them in the shows I'm in. It's no big deal.
> The Show before this last Saturday I had 2 other vendor selling the same cutting boards. You think I should tell them to go home because I'm selling here.


Walnut and Maple?

I think my sister did something like that in Jr. High. 

Doesn't sound like you copied anything that he might claim as intellectual property.

There's probably another guy on another forum complaining about this new guy at a show that stole his idea after he tried to be nice to him.


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## Timebandit (Oct 8, 2011)

ghostrider said:


> Timebandit said:
> 
> 
> > ghostrider said:
> ...



Man that must have taken a long time to break up my post like that:biggrin:

Your right. It was this line that you said that got me "People on this forum get downright hostile when someone copies a product  like the Pen Pro, but it's okay to steal other people's ideas", which to me sounded like you were accusing him of stealing ideas.

Thanks for clearing that up.

And thanks for the compliment on the pens:biggrin:


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## ghostrider (Oct 8, 2011)

Timebandit said:


> ghostrider said:
> 
> 
> > Timebandit said:
> ...


Cut N' Paste makes it easier:biggrin:. Besides, Time taken to mend fences and clear up misunderstandings is time well spent.


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## ctubbs (Oct 8, 2011)

When we pen turners or whatever you call us, only make a few of one style pen, then we all loose out.  Smitty was trying to offer limited orders of a few styles of pen kits that have become unavailable to the market due to the few sales across the market.  The availability of these sets left simply due to the lack of sales of high end kits.  Therefore if each of us decided to only use one pen kit and no one else were allowed to make that style, then is short order there would be no kits available for anyone.  It is a simple matter of volume sales driving the availability of product for us all.  The market will provide the product if there is a sale for the product at a profit.  Otherwise, no product, no pens, no bottle ballancer, no anything.  At this level the marked will determine who sells what.  My $0.02 and with inflation, that just ain't much.
Charles


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## TellicoTurning (Oct 8, 2011)

TellicoTurning said:


> Hey Richard,
> I make a wine bottle stand like this... I don't want you to copy it or sell it at any show where I might be selling mine....
> 
> I use all kinds of woods, so you can make them from different wood either...



You have any dimmension or instructions? I promise to stay away from TN[/quote]

I need to go out to my shop... (tomorrow, it's dark as a dungeon outside now)... and I'll get the book that I made these from and give you all the details...[/quote]


Richard,
Sorry to be late with reply... I had a show today and left the house before daylight and just got home a couple of hours ago...

I found these wine stands in a book by S. Gary Roberts... Masterful Woodturning   These instructions are from the book... 

This is turned in 4 pieces... the Base, the Ring, the Stem, and the Finial (this is an optional piece...)

The Base:  Turn the base about 3" dia with an area thick enough to drill a 1/4" hole 3/8" deep at a 45 deg angle... You can be crative and free with the base, but the angle of the drille hole is critial and needs to be accurate.

The Stem:  between centers turn the spindle into a 5/8" - to - 3/4" cylinder.measure and mark the ends 4 1/2" apart not including the tenon... outside the lines, turn a 1/4" diameter x 3/8" long tenon on each end.

The Ring:  

This is the instructions Mr. Roberts wrote in his book:  Turning the Ring:  (quote)  To turn the ring, a number of procedures are possible, I tried using a 1 3/8" hole and using a wood mandrel, which requires dismounting and reversing.  I used a screw chuck, which worked well and allowed access to both sides of the ring.

But the easiest method is to band-saw the blank and mount it between a spur center and a live center.  I used a ring tool I ground from a screw drive (as shown in the drawing).  You can also use a 3/8" spindle gouge to shape the ring and part off with a parting tool.
After separation, use a 1" diameter drum sander mounted in a drill chuck to smooth out the center.
Drill 1/4" hole in the center of the edge of the ring on the end grain side.  A good way to position the bit is to add a skew line to the ring while it is still in the lathe.
(unquote)

There are a number of ways to do the ring... Mr. Roberts talks about a couple in his book and I found the a little confusing... I'll put his instructions in this post, but the way I did my rings... I cut ring approximately round with the band saw... drilled the center with my drill press and a forstner bit at 1 3/8" diameter... I then put the ring on a pin chuck opened through the hole to hold it while I fixed the face and edges... after I got the ring to my satisfaction, I put a drum sander mounted on my drill press and smoothed the inside hole... some of my rings were a little larger and heavier than they should have been... the ring should be thick enough that you can crill a 1/4" hole in the side for the tenon on the stem...if it's too thick and heavy, you might have trouble with the balance of the stand. (DAMHIKT)

The Finial:  This is a optional part... I used several and on a couple where the base was from a pretty dense wood, didn't put one in... turn the finial to your own design, add a 1/4" dia tenon on the bottom to glue into the center of the base... or opposite the stem at the same angle as the stem... your option. 

Mr. Roberts suggested using CA to glue the parts together... I personally preferred using Titebond wood glue.  Finish is your choice... Mr. Roberts used Deft clear... you could also use spray lacquer, wipe on poly or your choice...


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## Grizz (Oct 8, 2011)

This is actually what happens when someone's pocketbook feels threatened.

As old as time itself.  Don't sweat it.


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## Rchan63 (Oct 8, 2011)

Thank you Chuck for the detailed instructions


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## Harold Epps (Oct 11, 2011)

I enjoy the competition when other pen turners show up at a Craft show
where I display. The turners I hang out with show each other how they
made each special pen they just created and tell us how they did it.

That includes myself. I have shown several Pen turmers how I made all
of the pens I show, and am proud when they make the same one.

I went to one show and there were 5 other Pen turners there. I said
to the host, great, bring on the competition. I out sold them four to one
and some never came back.

One good turn, gets most of the blanket.


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