# Now here's a question for you smart guys



## BigRob777 (Jul 8, 2007)

I weigh about 390 pounds and have a bad lower back and an ailing upper back and shoulders.  My lathe isn't set at the right height.  Sitting for too long hurts my back, unless it's fantastic position.  I need to increase from 30 minutes a day, to 3 hours a day.  I want to sit facing the chair "back", so that I cah face the lathe through the chair back, aka front.  It seems somewhat like a massage chair, one of those portable ones.  I hope to build one this week, with a friend, if he's around.  Any input you have will be well received and appreciated.  I'm also dealing with a long toro and a 6'5" height.  I have plenty of materials to work with and I can pick up more ffoam, if I need it.

Any suggestions will be received as a gift, even if you think it's stupid.  For example: "What....put super glue on your pen, as a finish?"  "You must be crazy" "You can't use that stuff on wood and metal."  Go past this stuff and put out your ideas.  I really want to start cranking out pens and one per day, on a good day just won't float the boat.

Thanks,
*Rob * formerly the pen blank seller here, until it got swamped.  Ah well, it's a lot more interesting turning than cutting blanks.


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## Snazzypens (Jul 8, 2007)

Rob this is only a thought but won't your back do better with something behind it as support. Like leaning forward won't  that make your shoulder and upper arms more sorer?? You may consider something to under your elbows to take the weight off your shoulders and upper backs. Like I know that they are going to be moving but just so you can rest them as you go. 
Just a thought
Toni


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## leehljp (Jul 8, 2007)

Big Rob,

I make all of my work tables, and or modify any table that I use - so that it is the right height for me. Taking the body's muscle health into consideration, different heights are necessary. 

This "one size fits all" or "all tables the same height" is great for eye appeal - and are optimal on only a few specific occasions. But when the back, legs, and arms have to make the adjustment for inappropriate work height, sooner or later, some parts of the body will start hurting for that reason.

This is the ideal for flat work: 
1. Where power is needed to push, pull or handle heavy loads, between hip to waist level is best - such working with boards on thickness planers. 

2. Where a combination of force and and control is necessary, waist level or maybe a couple of inches higher works best. Table saws, band saws fall into this category. Usually this is the ideal height for a general work and construction table too.

3. Fine hand control is needed for table routing, scroll sawing, and in my opinion, turning. For these, the ideal height is around elbow height.

The chair that you mentioned would be ideal and I tried one once, - loved it. While this is the way you want to go, bear in mind that the correct height for you will probably help too.

When several people have to use the same shop, then standardized tables are a necessity, with the adjusting factor being adjustable stools, or height platforms. This has been the reason for the "learned" idea that all tables should be a standard or specific height. But for personal/one person shops, table height should reflect the work to be done in relation to the height of the person doing it. <b> This makes for a lot less fatigue and back problems and is safer too.</b>


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## Ron in Drums PA (Jul 8, 2007)

Oneway has just released a lathe you can sit in front of.

Also, don't take offense, losing some weight would not only help, but you would live longer too. Both translate to more time at the lathe.


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## BigRob777 (Jul 8, 2007)

Ron,
I've already got 3 lathes, so another one just isn't in the budget.  The weight really needs to come off, but it's a huge struggle.  It is, however, my goal.  Thanks.

Toni,
I completely understand where you're coming from and at first considered something like a preacher curl bench, (still doesn't support my lower back), but I need my elbows free to move without any hindrance and my lower back is the main problem.  I have recently considered suspending my lathe above me, with my feet under the table.  I could use a huge smock.  That's still an option.  Thank you for your suggestion.

Hank,
I took ergonomics in college and can't remember what heights to use, but all of my benches are 6" higher than normal.  This isn't correct, as you have pointed out, but it's better than working in my friend's shop (who will remain nameless, but he's considerably shorter than I am, by at least 8").  I may not be the only one working in my shop, but I'll use your suggestion, as I have done in the past, and put some platforms within reach.  I'll keep your information handy, when I build my shop.  It's still just some equipment in my basement and my benches are all in my outside shop (garage).  Thanks so much.  This is awesome information.

Rob


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## BigRob777 (Jul 8, 2007)

Just a note:
Ron wrote me an e-mail, to make sure I wasn't offended by his post-response and it was well received.  It really got me thinking about what I'm doing to my body.  It coincided with the same discussion with my wife, over breakfast this morning.  I've just got to do something about my weight and it's going to have to now.  Thanks Ron.
Rob


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## armyturner (Jul 8, 2007)

Rob,

Maybe instead of something like a preacher curl bench you could build something more like a bench press bench with a narrow back set at or near verticle. Your elbows would be free and you could build the back to fit your torso. Bench press benches have a wide base on one end for stability and then you would only have to figure out something for back support, maybe nothing more then an adjustable, padded brace that you could sandwich yourself between.

Jeremy


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## hanau (Jul 8, 2007)

adjustable work bench, that you could mount your lathe to.

http://www.flameengineering.com/Benches_Standard.html

http://preview.tinyurl.com/yotf4h

***TinyUrl added by MesquiteMan to reduce page width***


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## hanau (Jul 8, 2007)

here are some chairs

http://www.ergostoreonline.com/ab_stool.html

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&rlz=1B3GGGL_enUS221US221&q=Ergonomic+workstations+lab+chairs&btnG=Search


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## RonSchmitt (Jul 8, 2007)

Rob, 
I too am a big guy ( 6'5" 360 ) with  a bad back, so I understand your predicament. I use a barstool when my back is acting up and have found that adjusting the height of my feet on a footstool lessens the pain. ( I have 3 different set-ups, depending on the day)
Not very scientific, but it works for me.


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## Dario (Jul 8, 2007)

Rob,

I know someone who is also a member here who went through all sort of diet but none worked.  He later on went with gastric by-pass and last I heard (after more than a year) he has no regrets doing it.  The biggest down side is that he cannot eat some food now.

Note that I was one of those who strongly advised him against it but seems like there are times when it is the best option.  Again, I will re-iterate that he tried almost everything but failed before considering it.  Just throwing it as a possible (last) option.

If you are interested and want to talk to him, I can send you his info via PM.


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## GaryMGg (Jul 8, 2007)

It ought to be Hey <b>Big</b> Rob.

One trait we share is an injured lower back.
Five stretching exercises regularly will help.
Lying flat on the floor on padding (Sports authority sells a great Everlast stretching mat) on your back:
1. Right leg straight, left leg knee to chest slowly 10-12 times.
2. switch legs and repeat (always the same # reps as you begin with).
3. both legs knees to chest together.
4. pelvic thrust, an odd looking little exercise -&gt; while still on your back with your feet pulled in toward your butt and flat on the floor so your knees are above your chest, you'll feel a gap between the floor and your lower back due to a natural arch. Using your stomach muscles, press that arch out [down] so that your back is flat against the floor. Hold for two to four seconds and release.
Repeat 10-12 times.
5. Roll over onto your stomach and do 10-12 `girlie' style push-ups keeping your hips on the ground and arching your back as much as possible toward the ceiling doing 10-12 reps.

Stretch at least 1-2 times a day. Over a short period of time you will begin to notice the difference. Anytime you begin to feel that nagging fatigue in your lower back, take a short break and try doing these.

Gary


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## ericw95 (Jul 8, 2007)

Rob - If you ever do consider gastric bypass, feel free to email me as well and my wife will be sure to respond. Three years ago she had it done and lost 175 pounds.  She experiences mild lactose issues occassionally.  Like Dario, I too was not in favor of it but seeing the results has me convinced.

Note that every doctor is different in how they suggest you follow through post-surgery so I would make sure that anyone do their research before having the procedure done.


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## TBone (Jul 8, 2007)

Agree that stretching will help as will excercises to strengthen your back.  Remember to start both easy.  You're in it for the long haul.  The weight loss won't be a diet, it will be a new lifestyle.  Just wanted to wish you luck and hope you come up with a design that works for you.


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## MesquiteMan (Jul 8, 2007)

Rob,

I am 6'1" and weighed 230 lbs.  Not as heavy as you but well overweight nonetheless.  I have a cracked vertebra in my lower back from a water skiing accident when I was a kid.  It bothers me from time to time and I was getting to the point where I was having a hard time playing with my 17 mo. old daughter due to back issues and decided it was time to do something.

The local hospital has a "Center for Wellness and Sports Fitness", basically a more medically oriented health club.  My wife and I both joined and hired a personal trainer to make sure we get them most out of it.  The trainer is not cheap but well worth every penny.  He did an initial evaluation where he took all sorts of measurements and did a heart stress test.  Then he designed my workout based on that information.

I have a standing appointment with him Monday, Wednesday, and Friday morning at 8 am.  Without the appointment I would most likely not stay with it.  We do 20 minutes of INTENSE cardio workout on the stair stepper and then go to weights.  Each day is a different muscle grouping so that I only work out each group once per week.  We stays right by my side and provides encouragement and pushes me for the maximum benefit.

Friday was one month for me.  I am now down to 217 but more importantly, I have lost 2% of body fat. I have also reduced my waist by 2"!  My endurance is MUCH better and I no longer get out of breath chasing my daughter around the house!  My back problems have almost completely gone away after just a month and I feel better about myself.  Loosing the weight while strengthening the muscles for my back has been a tremendous help so far and I expect it to even get better the more I exercise.

I will be the first to tell you it will be difficult.  I DESPISE the stair stepper and am not much for working out but I am determined to improve my health and be around when my daughter gets older.  I will be 40 this August and I want to feel 40 rather than 50!  I am so glad I did not join a regular health club since the place I go is not full of bodybuilders and is more medically oriented.  I would highly recommend that you check into options in your area.  Good luck!


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## OKLAHOMAN (Jul 8, 2007)

Big Rob, I can really understand what your going through as my wife has a very bad back and we had to get an Ele. wheel chair last year whenever we have to go shopping as she can only walk with-out  sever pain for 10 -12 min. and she has because of this over the last 5 years become morbitly over weight as she can't get the excercisce that is needed to keep weight off and after trying every diet know to man and beast she has decided to go the medical route. She has studied this extensivley and in her case she will go the Lap-Band instead of the by-pass. Her back Dr. has said that if she was to loose 75 lbs the pressure on her back would degress 50% and 100lbs 75%. Her proceedure is schculed for the 13th of Aug.. She is about 250 and her ideal weight should be 135. We both have been to support groups for this and it will be no easy fix as you will have to change your lifestyle.. If you care to you can E-mail me for our phone # if you want any info and hope this is taken in the spirt it is written.


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## BigRob777 (Jul 8, 2007)

You folks are amazing.  I asked for a little and got a lot.  It's starting to feel like home again, in here (IAP).  I appreciate everyone's input and the mention of surgery is near and dear to my heart, as my wife wants me to look into the lap band.  I decided against the laproscopy (sp?), because of the amount of cutting and bypassing involved.  The lap band sounds much less invasive and it's what I was looking at years ago.  I hope it doesn't come to that, but if it does, it's good to know someone else who's wife has gone through it.

As for the chair, I was sitting here and some interesting things "popped" into my head.  First, I figured out a solution for my engraving design, for a (hopefully) large order for pens and then I thought:
Hey, I can put a supportive chair down in my shop and put a stand under my mini, that'll change the angle for me, so that I can lean back and turn.  I told my wife and she reminded me that I have a drafting table, that doesn't get used for anything but storing turning squares.  That'll work great, if I support it.

That doesn't help me with my big lathe though.  I'm also getting an air shield and a sheet to cover myself with.  I'll be turning in my basement, so it won't be hot under the sheet.  I don't know if I can find a smock large enough for my aforementioned girth.  Well, if Bill Grumbine can find one, I should be able to.  We're about the same size.

Thanks again.  Roy, I may be in touch later.
Rob


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## BigRob777 (Jul 8, 2007)

Come to think of it, this was probably prompted by John's (Hanau) adjustable table idea.  Thanks John.
Rob


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## hanau (Jul 8, 2007)

Hope you can find something that works for you Rob.


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## guts (Jul 8, 2007)

Hey Rob,all you would have to do is go back to M.C. boot camp and you would have some nice people take care of your weight problem for you,don't forget I'm on your side,(lose some weight Bud)Semper Fi.


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## BigRob777 (Jul 8, 2007)

Bill,
You know, I've been there and done that.  I lost 50 pounds in boot camp, but I was waaaaaaaaaay younger.[]
Rob


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## JimGo (Jul 8, 2007)

Rob,
Sounds like you've got some great suggestions, and I can't really contribute much.  However, LMK if you need a hand one day trying to move some of your stuff around so you can make this work.


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## GBusardo (Jul 8, 2007)

Hey Rob,   You are getting a lot of great suggestions and concern from the people here.  Great job to all of you!  I have some problems with my wood working also.  I stand 5'2" and my back is cranky.  When I stand or sit for a while, my lower back gives me trouble,  and NOTHING is ever the right height for me.  My suggestion would be to build a chair that will support your back first, then build a stand for each lathe that will fit around the chair.  If this sugestion was offered, I apologize. I feel for you buddy, do what you need to do for your health and the turning will follow.  All the best of luck.


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## BigRob777 (Jul 8, 2007)

Jim,
Thank you.  I may just do that.  If I do, make sure you bring something to turn on my big lathe.  Better yet, pick something from my small collection.[]  I bought way too many bowl blanks, before hitting the selling sidelines.  I have to build some serious wood storage racks.  I still have half of a ton of green walnut in my truck, awaiting a place to dry for a couple of years (2" X 20" X 6' slabs).

Gary,
It seems that we have opposite problems (I'm 6'5"), though they have similar perplexities.  I actually have a new chair that will be good for me, so I need to try it out with my table.  Unfortunately, it's this one:




<br />

I built my kitchen island (really a peninsula) on a 2" X 4" platform, to raise it up for me and it's still too low.  I guess kitchen cabinets are made for someone who's probably 5'4" or so.  I'm glad I didn't put my sink up higher, or I'd be able to do dishes.[}]
Rob


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## Snazzypens (Jul 9, 2007)

Giday Rob, If you need some moral support on your weightloss journey. I too and walking this road because my back is starting to hurt to. So if you need a buddy email me. I know this battle well. I too know they health issue you face with High BP and high Cholestrol and sugar so I am to facing this battle
bye TOni


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## BigRob777 (Jul 9, 2007)

Toni,
Thank you.  PM sent.
Rob


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## Gary Max (Jul 9, 2007)

Rob I have been on a Diet for over a year now and lost about 70lbs. No doctors---no drugs----it's called learning what and how to eat. 
Eating is now what I do to stay alive not something I look forward to. Rabbits and horses would like most of the things we eat now---yah the wife has lost 30 lbs also.
I still have a ways to go so this will just be part of life for me----which beats the heck out of being dead.
You can do anything if you put your mind to it. There are a couple of folks here who have lost over a 100lbs. My goal is to loss 136lbs total---it may take me 5 years but I can do it.


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## tas2181 (Jul 9, 2007)

Rob,
I'm with Gary on this one- you have to learn what and how to eat.
After a doctor's visit about 5 years ago and being diagnosed as pre-diabetic I was sent to see a diabetic nutritionist. After a few visits and being given a semi-restricted carb/calorie diet. I lost enough weight to where my blood sugar levels are now in a healthy range without any drugs/injections.       
The good thing is that you can eat just about anything you like but in moderation.
The process takes a while but the benefits far outweigh (no pun intended) the consequences.
Best of luck.
Tom


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## woodwish (Jul 9, 2007)

Rob, I may as well jump in here with my weight loss story.  Around last Christmas I went in for a physical and realized that over the years I had slowly crept up to 250 on my 5-10 body.  I have always been a little heavy but suddenly I realized that I was now officially fat.  I was staying tired and my back was really starting to bother me a lot.  I blamed the back problem on years of motorcycle riding, and being young & stupid once.  At 54 years old I was starting to realize that if I had known I was going to live this long I wish I had taken better care of myself []  I knew I couldn't undo any of what I had done to myself, but I had to lose some weight.  I have tried diets and they are boring, I'm not, so they don't work.  Show me a diet of beer, pizza, nachos, etc. and I will be OK, but those don't seem to exist.  Can't stand gyms, just not fond of large groups of sweaty bodybuilders.  Putting on the the weight was something that I did so I had to lose it myself.  Doctor visit did scare me with new blood pressure medicine, meds to lower cholesterol, etc.  So I figured out what I needed to do it required three basic steps-

Exercise- I've owned an exercise bike for years, good place to hang my coat up in the garage, but never really used it much.  I decided that I needed to spend one hour per day for me, without feeling guilty that I should be doing something else.  I spend the hour on the bike listening to my music (rock n' roll is always good for exercise) and reading as I peddle away.  At first it was hard but I kept adjusting and working, soon it was easy.  Toughest part was finding enough stuff to read!

Eating- only diet trick I learned was to do "pushaways".  I was of the generation that was told ot always eat all you had on your plate, cleaning my plate was to only thing I ever did in school to get a gold star!  I just decided it was OK to throw away food.  It was the hardest thing to do but I have gotten a lot better, and I also have learned to just not take as much.  Still eat the same stuff but now it's 3 slices of pizza instead of the usual 5-7 for example.  Also have learned to avoid the junk food snacks, just didn't make sense to take a Twinkie with me when I was on the way to the exercise bike.  I have slowly learned to eat wiser, more fiber and less fat, but it was not a really drastic thing to do.  Also maybe more red wine and less draft beer [8D]

The last thing was the most important one by far, and the one thing that I had forgotten in previous diet attempts- prayer.  I knew I couldn't really do this myself, I needed help.  No one around here seemed much help so I went beyond that and asked for HIs help.  You can not pray pounds off without following His advice and follow the first two steps above.  I also realized that maybe if we take better care of me then maybe I would put off the inevitable meeting with my maker, I have a lot of wood left to turn, and I would like to finish it before they toss me in a box someday.

Bottom line is I that have gone from 250 seven months ago to about 188 today.  It is amazing how much better I feel physically, metally, and spititually.  Didn't mean to ramble on so long, but I think it was good therapy to write it.  Rob, if you are still reading, try to lose some pounds.  We love you too much on here to see you go.  Every pound makes a difference.

Have had one major setback, 6 weeks ago I fell off the roof and shattered a femur.  All I have done is lay here in bed but I have done what exercising I can while laying here, still learned to to do the "pushaways", and spend a lot of time talking with God.  I haven't lost much in the last 6 weeks but also haven't gained any, so it's good.  I'll be up soon and intend to get down to maybe 180 that I weighed in college, and stay there for many more years.


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## BigRob777 (Jul 9, 2007)

Gary, Tom and Ray,
Thank you for your encouragement.  Ray, you hit the nail on the head.  I just don't spend enough time praying.  I never have.  Today's been fair, but the real test comes at night, when the binge eating is a temptation.  I turned a pen for a presentation tonight and got some bushing dust in the holly.  That's kept me busy, which keeps me from eating.
Rob


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## Tuba707 (Jul 19, 2007)

Keep on praying and discipline yourself to work hard at whatever route you take.  I know we have discussed via email the pain that you live with every day and I really hope that gets solved for you, man.  Hang in there.


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## BigRob777 (Jul 19, 2007)

Well, I'm looking into the lap band solution.  It's not nearly as invasive as the bypass surgery.  I've been thinking about it for a long time.  I'll go to a seminar next week.
Thanks Joel.
Rob


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## Woodlvr (Jul 20, 2007)

Rob,
  A young lady at my wifes work had the lap band surgery 4 weeks ago and has been sick for the last 3 weeks with a very bad infection. Please question them very strongly about this possibly. She has been in bed the past two weeks and cannot even hold her 6 month old daughter. Good luck with whatever you decide.

Mike

Edited for clumsiness-all thumbs[]


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## BigRob777 (Jul 20, 2007)

Mike,
Thanks for the warning.  I know there are risks, but I could die any day, with my weight so high, so there are risks either way.  I'll keep up my research.
Rob


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## martyb (Jul 20, 2007)

My mother and mother-in-law have both had gastric bypass.  As well as several friends.  We're very proud of them all.  The one thing that some people don't realize after the bypass, is that if you continue to increase your meal size, you're stomach will stretch back out and you'll be back where you started.  I know a few people who voided their surgery in this way.

I've got lower back problems as well.  No accident or incident in my past however.  I was doomed genetically.  Like my father, the disk separating my the L5 vertebrea from my hips was only 25% what it should.  It's not a good feeling when you're 27 and already know you're in for back surgery, since the doctor is already talking about it.  If I twist just wrong, that disk will pinch a nerve and I hit the floor like a sack of potatoes.  It usually takes about 30 minutes to work through the pain and roll into my back and elevate my knees (to take the pressure off).  Then its usually about 2 hours before I'm able to get off the floor.  With a bit of exercise, situps, crunches and leg lifts, I've strenghtened my lower back to the point I get plenty of warning before something bad happens.  The warnings hurt like heck, but better than the actual episode.  Just think hitting your hand with a hammer to keep you from touching a running tablesaw blade.

I'm working to lose some weight again, 6'1" and 262.  I was down to 235 3 years ago.  I'm not just fluffy (comedian Gabriel Iglesias, he's hilarious), I'm a big guy under that as well.  So my target range is actually in the 220s.  Still overweight by ever standard out there, but I think all those standards are messed up anyway.  Just diet and exercise and I'm actually down 18 so far this year.

No matter what you do, good luck Rob!


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## BigRob777 (Jul 20, 2007)

Marty,
235 is probably my ideal weight, since I'm 47 and have lost so much muscle mass over the years.  I guess I'm pretty fluffy now.[]  I'd love to start a work-out regime, but so many exercises hurt my upper, or lower back.  I'm hurting pretty badly, from a pinched nerve this week, in my upper back, that almost landed me in the hospital.  I've never experienced pain like that, from a pinched nerve.  I couldn't breathe without intense pain.  It was about as bad, as when I had a dislocated shoulder for 2 hours a decade back.  I helped my wife with cutting a stray tree down (about a 3" diameter) and it wiped me out (after cutting 3 blanks for an order).  

I miss my youth!  Thanks for your encouragement. 
Rob


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